irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060101

02:59.22 pra5ad happy new year
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16:17.50 ``Erik *yawn*
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23:17.01 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
23:18.01 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:18.01 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060102

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03:45.54 pra5ad pi is one weird movie
06:19.26 brlcad heh
06:19.46 brlcad a bit artsy but fun
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08:21.42 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
10:34.44 pra5ad *yawn*
16:45.30 ``Erik I concur
18:17.16 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add searches for itcl32 and itk32, as FreeBSD removes the dot
19:59.11 clock_ brlcad: hi
19:59.34 brlcad howdy clock_
20:00.16 clock_ friday I smashed my head into ground on snowboard :D
20:01.05 brlcad excellent
20:01.20 clock_ snowboarding is a sport very demanding on brain :)
20:02.12 brlcad heh
20:15.18 ``Erik iwidgets scan sucks ass
20:16.19 brlcad scan?
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20:24.26 brlcad if you mean the iwidgets test, it was written but never tested
20:28.20 ``Erik yeah, heh
20:29.53 brlcad and the same will happen for the blt and tkImg tests ;)
20:32.26 ``Erik 'sok, I'm not going that far
20:32.44 ``Erik trying to get system itcl/itk working, was hoping to get iwidgets, too, but *shrug* I'm too lazy right now
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060103

02:29.20 *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
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21:06.35 pier Hi brlcad
21:30.57 brlcad howdy
21:47.42 pier hi..
21:48.01 pier I am having a look at the g-dxf.c code
21:48.34 pier and wondering where to look for the db_walk_tree function source
21:49.38 brlcad eep, you hopefully don't need to follow db_walk_tree beyone understanding that it walks the database geometry tree
21:49.49 brlcad regardless, it's in src/librt/db_tree.c
21:50.33 brlcad parallel tree walker
21:51.16 pier looks like this function does a lot of very important things
21:52.14 pier Does it brows the input file pointed by dbip?
21:53.13 brlcad it does
21:54.11 brlcad it walks through all the geometry in a directory
21:54.32 brlcad by itself, that is all that it does
21:54.55 brlcad what makes it useful, though, is that you provide it function pointers
21:55.43 pier nmg_booltree etc?
21:55.44 brlcad those callback functions are called when various geometry are encountered
21:58.03 pier so these functions get out triangles from the shapes in the db tree?
21:58.46 brlcad what are you looking at specifically?
21:59.15 brlcad more than likely if db_walk_tree is being used with nmg evaluation, then yes.. the geometry is being extracted as triangles
21:59.50 pier I was just trying to work out the way the code works but the deeper I go the harder it gets
22:01.36 pier in order to learn something more about the way you get the shell surface from a boolean combination of solid shapes
22:01.42 brlcad you're starting with a pretty complicated converter to begin with
22:02.22 brlcad all the nmg_* routines basically do the "get the shell surface from a boolean combination of solid shapes"
22:02.25 pier ... positive..
22:03.36 brlcad so you presumably were looking at:
22:03.40 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.40 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.40 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.40 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.40 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.42 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.44 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:03.49 pier yes
22:04.25 brlcad when you open a geometry database, you're create a directory of the contents
22:04.37 brlcad that eventually gets you the dbip
22:04.56 pier ok
22:05.09 pier I get it
22:05.16 brlcad the db_walk_tree function there has two callbacks
22:05.39 brlcad whild it's walking the directory, it encounters combinations/regions and primitives
22:05.48 brlcad the primitives are "leaf nodes"
22:06.09 pier go on please
22:06.11 brlcad when it finds a combination/region, db_walk_tree() calls do_region_end()
22:06.25 brlcad when it finds a primitive, it calls nmg_booltree_leaf_tess()
22:07.41 brlcad nmg_booltree_leaf_tess() is provided by a library and basically tesselates the object into triangles
22:07.54 pier ok
22:08.05 brlcad do_region_end() is presumably a function in the dxf converter that puts it all together
22:11.21 pier I pondered your idea about getting plan views from a raycastin algorithm and I was trying to understand
22:12.36 pier the dxf outputting code to see if that aim could have been achieved by modifying the g-dxf code
22:14.25 brlcad i thought about that a little bit more as well, the route I'd think about to get a non-discretized answer would require adding a routine to all the primitives
22:15.39 brlcad e.g. for the sphere primitive, there already exists a routine to evaluate/get the implicit for (the _shot() routine) and a polygonal explicit form (the _tess() routine)
22:15.45 pier that somewhere finds the coordinates of all the objects in the db whose manipoulation I wouldn't like to get involved with
22:16.33 pier ok but I got stuck when it comes to the hidden line removal
22:16.53 brlcad if one added a _brep() routine or somesuch that returned the brep form, you could then rather easily directly extract exact spline projections
22:19.17 pier say I got a pipe
22:20.11 brlcad you mean a cylinder?
22:20.25 pier which can be thought of as a union rcc1 (with R) - rcc2 (r<R)
22:20.58 pier in a g file I ould retrieve the geometrical data of both
22:20.59 brlcad ah, so an actual hollow pipe, got it
22:21.04 pier yes
22:21.44 pier rcc1 (lenght L) rcc2 (l>L)
22:22.33 pier I could work out the maximum dimensions of the object
22:22.56 pier Xmax Ymax Xmin Ymin to get a view port
22:23.41 pier from whose points shoot perpendicoular rays
22:24.15 pier am I on the right way?
22:25.34 brlcad for a discretized method, sure
22:25.55 pier mmm
22:26.05 pier otherwise
22:27.36 pier for a shape one should consider the edges and project them on a plane
22:28.02 brlcad right
22:28.35 brlcad that's the method i'm referring to, it's just a matter of how to "get the edge"
22:28.39 pier in the case of a cylinder two ellipses joined by two lines tangent to botw of them
22:29.18 brlcad you can get a discretized edge from ratracing (a pretty good one at that, but discretized nonetheless) and respline
22:30.24 brlcad for non-discretized splines, you can get the edges/outlines etc .. but that's where I said that it'll require modifying the primitives themselves since there currently aren't routines to do this
22:31.01 brlcad the first is more simple (and could even be tacked into g-dxf or wherever, but the latter is a "better" solution from a numerical standpoint
22:32.11 pier for the sigle shapes (primitives) the projection shouldn't be hard as long as they are not concave
22:33.43 brlcad some primitives will be very hard
22:33.46 brlcad some not so hard
22:33.49 brlcad at all
22:34.06 pier yes the ellipsoid for instance
22:34.49 brlcad the only hard part will be implementing the boolean evaluation
22:35.33 brlcad we have booleans on implicits and triangles, but not brep splines
22:35.48 brlcad even for generalized polygons
22:35.48 pier yes
22:36.17 brlcad it's more the amount of time/effort involved
22:37.05 brlcad i'd gather it'd be a generous month or so to get splines in an rtedge fashion inside g-dxf
22:37.37 brlcad 6+ months to get full brep support, maybe 2 or 3 for minimal
22:37.48 ``Erik MEER ME
22:37.50 brlcad and that's a lot of math
22:37.50 ``Erik BEER
22:37.58 brlcad ~beer ``Erik
22:37.59 ibot ACTION deftly decants a fine Jever for ``Erik
22:38.06 ``Erik heh, yelling typo's kinda spoiles the effect
22:38.15 pier maybe for one who knows exactly what to do and where put hands
22:38.24 brlcad yet conveniently still works when it's related to alcohol
22:38.37 ``Erik wish I had me some of that
22:38.43 ``Erik but, alas, I'm not allowed yet
22:38.54 brlcad pier: that was factored in somewhat :)
22:39.04 pier :)
22:39.40 pier was thinking about matrix rotation to get ellipsoid projection on a plane but not sure
22:41.52 pier ok I'll think it over... going to bed now. Have a nice day
22:42.04 brlcad not so hard if you have brep
22:42.24 brlcad it all ends up being transformations on the splines like how triangles get transformed
22:47.06 pier put enough meat on the fire for me... risk going to get clogged up :) bye
22:48.15 brlcad heh, cya
22:48.56 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
23:48.31 ``Erik so how's the new gui going?
23:51.44 brlcad no decent progress in dec
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060104

01:29.23 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:32.40 ``Erik oi, mike
01:32.54 tegtmeye yo!
01:33.20 tegtmeye eh? get a new laptop?
01:33.28 ``Erik no
01:33.31 ``Erik the old 1.25ghz one
01:33.32 ``Erik heh
01:33.46 ``Erik I just ripped a cd to mp3
01:35.32 ``Erik wrote a short email while ripping/encoding, sent the email, and like 15 seconds left of the rip/encode for the whole cd
01:35.54 tegtmeye not bad. I take it that was the first time you did that.
01:36.05 ``Erik on the mac, yeah
01:37.23 ``Erik and a 16x cdrom with 450mhz athlon wasn't much faster, heh
01:37.42 tegtmeye lol, ripping := napster
01:37.43 ``Erik the 3.6ghz with 40x at work is slower than the mac, i think... might have to rip another cd there to see
01:38.16 ``Erik no, just easier than trying to get my computers cdrom working downstairs, trying to learn a song, want to play with the mp3 to get the pattern and timing down
01:38.28 ``Erik getting ready for a jam session with a drum beater
01:38.29 ``Erik :)
01:38.35 ``Erik <-- heads back down to make more noise
01:38.38 tegtmeye ah...
01:38.41 tegtmeye have fun
02:22.56 pra5ad brlcad,
02:23.02 pra5ad u skipping out on us or what
02:23.40 ``Erik heh, one of these days, I'll figure out wtf i'm doing with that thing
02:28.00 brlcad pra5ad: i don't think i've ever worked the day back after new years
02:28.06 brlcad maybe once
02:29.03 ``Erik gonna cook up hours later?
02:29.15 ``Erik bastage contractor, workin' first 80 style o.O
02:31.16 brlcad heh
02:31.21 brlcad i take days off
02:37.48 tegtmeye yo brlcad, any luck on the in-mem thing?
02:39.00 ``Erik I meant cooking as in overloading hours in a single period :)
02:39.05 ``Erik like the 36 hour days
03:09.28 brlcad oop, he left
03:20.20 pra5ad u gonna show up tomorrow?
03:20.58 brlcad i'm always here
03:21.31 pra5ad on post?
03:39.04 ``Erik heh, prasad wants you to make his manboobs hurt, sean ;) *duck*
03:55.42 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: meh, shouldn't be in cvs, but update to 7.7.0 anyways
04:44.02 pra5ad wow final fantasy xii cg is too good
05:28.18 pra5ad for low-poly models, ingame gfx is real pretty
05:41.33 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: there is no saveifp, should be ifp
05:42.11 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl_win32.c: no sense using saveifp in a function that provides the ifp
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10:40.09 clock_ hi
12:31.32 brlcad howdy
12:53.06 clock_ fine
12:53.18 clock_ sushi <- burning nose :D
12:54.07 brlcad excellent, i'm jealous
12:54.32 clock_ here is a crazy law that if you have a computer with media player and sound card connected to Internet, you have to pay fees for radio reception.
12:54.39 clock_ Do you have this in the US as well?
12:55.31 ``Erik not yet o.O
12:55.41 clock_ ``Erik: are you from US as well?
12:55.46 clock_ this is in switzerland
12:56.16 ``Erik yeah, I work at the same place as brlcad... used to work on brlcad
12:56.39 brlcad several countries in europe have broadcasting fees for radio/television
12:56.46 brlcad on purchases
12:56.55 brlcad which I find hilarious
12:58.01 archivist but we get high quality tv with no adverts hehe
12:58.06 clock_ imagine a poor child that buys a PC and want to educate himself.
12:58.38 clock_ It cannot afford the fees so he cannot watch multimedia programmes transmitted by Icecast. He can learn only from materials downloadable as single files.
12:58.47 clock_ I consider this a breach in free speech.
12:59.47 ``Erik heh, canuckia taxes blank cd's cuz they can be used to record pirated software or music...
13:00.06 brlcad heh, canuckia
13:00.11 ``Erik basic human knowlege and freedoms take second seat to corporate profits
13:00.15 ``Erik o.O
13:00.17 clock_ they should also tax stones because they can be used for violent crime like smashing shop windows
13:00.41 clock_ ``Erik: so this is the motivation to develop free technology to undermine the corporations
13:00.58 clock_ they tax blank cd's in CZ as well
13:01.02 clock_ and have broadcast fees
13:02.00 clock_ what is free speech good for when you don't have freedom of listening?
13:02.09 clock_ they should also begin tax some kind of thoughts
13:04.27 ``Erik that'd be called 'intellectual property', and it isn't taxed as much as sued
13:08.46 clock_ hehe we are already in fahrenheit 451 and 1984 :)
13:10.17 clock_ but GPL BRL-CAD is a giant leap for mankind :)
13:10.45 clock_ I can't understand how someone can use that pussy povray. It's not even free software! It has no style! :D
13:11.33 clock_ povray or brlcad?
13:11.37 ``Erik pov
13:12.05 clock_ I first checked if it's free sw and when I saw it isn't I ditched it even before I tried to find out what it can do :)
13:12.17 ``Erik also tried lightwave
13:12.21 clock_ BRL-CAD is good. Segfault time to time, but when I write report, I get reply
13:12.26 ``Erik modelling is not one of my arts
13:13.03 ``Erik yeah, sean needs to quit replying to your reports and go work on bz
13:13.05 ``Erik :}
13:13.18 clock_ lol :)
13:14.13 brlcad heh
13:14.53 brlcad pov is good for some things, I'd like to set them as a plugin renderer to see the differences
13:15.09 brlcad they can't perform as well, but they do global illumination better
13:16.00 brlcad and Twingy had a good idea to implement a path tracer with librt at some point, would be interesting to see too
13:16.57 clock_ pov is just a commandline tool. BRL-CAD has full-blown hybrid modeling environment.
13:17.24 clock_ click-clack and your model is done. Like in those Sci-Fi movies.
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14:17.40 ``Erik *grouse*
14:18.22 ``Erik so, what, 5pm?
14:18.27 brlcad heh
14:18.41 ``Erik O:-)
14:20.18 ``Erik hm, southpark guys using xserves for storage, swank
14:27.52 clock_ xservers for storage?
14:35.12 ``Erik x-serve, apples rackmount servers
14:58.13 clock_ omg mapple
14:58.14 clock_ apple
14:58.33 clock_ I saw two apple notebooks - in one the motherboard suddenly died, and in the other the LCD inverter suddenly died.
14:58.40 clock_ My personal opinion is that Apple hardware is crap.
15:08.56 pra5ad it sure is
15:16.09 ``Erik heh, two doa's on a big lot is insanely good, prasad
15:35.07 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add more blt dirs to AC_CONFIG_FILES
15:39.47 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: Add EXTRA_DIST. Also add demos and win to SURDIRS.
15:43.02 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: Add EXTRA_DIST for Windows
15:44.26 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (demos/Makefile.am demos/bitmaps/Makefile.am win/Makefile.am): Initial check-in
15:54.10 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
15:55.44 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
15:58.42 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw
15:59.50 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw
16:00.19 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: Add win to EXTRA_DIST
16:01.30 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: Add scripts to EXTRA_DIST
16:01.51 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.1: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw
16:02.03 brlcad woot, go bob go
16:03.18 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
16:04.26 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
17:04.01 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
19:07.49 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Change the help for erotate, escale and etranslate to orotate, oscale and otranslate, respectively.
19:10.55 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: Add back door for accessing the master interpreter (i.e. the Command widget uses a slave interpreter for interfacing with the user). Other minor mods.
19:14.17 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ColorEntry.tcl: Modified to use tk_chooseColor. Other minor cleanup.
21:27.52 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ComboBox.tcl: Minor cleanup.
21:29.30 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor cleanup.
21:34.38 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard.
21:57.45 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add support for DOS batch script files, using REM as the comment
22:05.27 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for DOS batch script files, using REM as the comment
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22:05.54 tegtmeye you awake brlcad?
22:09.31 brlcad tegtmeye: yes
22:10.21 tegtmeye fdopen
22:13.27 brlcad thar she be
22:13.37 brlcad thought there was one
22:14.20 tegtmeye still not sure it is going to work tho
22:16.05 ``Erik y'know that 'interview' you did with sf back in aprilish, sean?
22:16.45 ``Erik they totally borked up your entry in the 'key developers' sideline :D they got dave's pic and name there hehehehe
22:27.46 brlcad ahh, so they did
22:27.50 brlcad must be the new site
22:42.50 tegtmeye <PROTECTED>
23:34.34 ``Erik *grouse* my optimizer pass is damaging my code
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060105

00:16.22 *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
00:48.49 brlcad it's a "special" optimization pass
00:57.42 ``Erik indeed
00:57.52 ``Erik I solved the 'eating data' bug, but not the 'ignoringn chunks' bug
00:58.14 ``Erik but now I'm busy reading http://philip.greenspun.com/research/software-pricing *sigh*
00:58.21 brlcad better than spewing chunks
01:00.14 brlcad bs article somewhat, i learned photoshop as well as most pros and never touched a manual, barely even slowed me down
01:00.29 brlcad though I might have borrowed from a friend's friend
01:01.15 ``Erik some interesting ideas, some obvious flaws, ... ultimately intractable, but an amusing thought exercise
01:02.10 ``Erik hasta
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12:12.31 Mac- hi there
12:14.51 Mac- anyone works with GraphiteOne CAD ?
13:01.27 brlcad heh, no
13:03.42 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
13:43.14 pra5ad wakka wakka
14:49.32 ``Erik damnit, it's morning again, that keeps happening
14:51.25 archivist dont wake up then
15:03.42 ``Erik <-- already at the office, doesn't trust these fuckers enough to sleep
16:48.52 CIA-15 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: All of archer including the tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL
16:59.39 clock_ is it possible to get free software job working on BRL-CAD?
17:01.55 *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx)
17:42.52 brlcad clock_: yes it is
17:43.39 ``Erik 1heh
17:43.46 ``Erik I thought I did, bbbuuutttt
17:43.47 ``Erik :)
17:44.30 brlcad we've been talking about opening contract-style positions for tasks to the community
17:44.42 brlcad a few K for some feature(s)
17:44.59 ``Erik ah
17:45.02 ``Erik bounties
17:45.03 brlcad still considering different mechanisms for doing that
17:45.08 brlcad yep
17:45.17 ``Erik open bounties, or claimed?
17:45.34 brlcad either both, first come first serve, depends
17:46.03 ``Erik I'd hate to work on a feature just to have some kid with no daytime job beat me to it when I'm 95% done
17:46.19 brlcad yeah, that would suck
17:46.32 brlcad not to mention just be inefficient
17:46.43 brlcad there's plenty to do
17:46.44 ``Erik of course, commiting the task to someone who never finishes it would suck, too :)
17:47.14 brlcad there would have to be some higher incentive for completing a claimed task
17:47.50 ``Erik if you talk to lee about it soon, would you mind asking about the viability of m3 devers on claiming those bounties, if it ever happen? :)
17:48.04 brlcad sure
17:48.08 ``Erik thnx
17:49.26 brlcad I can imagine what he'd say, though what would really matter would be to ask someone higher up or better yet someone external that might care (like legal)
17:49.35 brlcad or cpo
17:49.54 ``Erik well, yeah, but he'd be the vehicle for expressing that aspect up the chain
17:50.19 brlcad technically, I don't think there's a conflict of interest like you'd have if it were commercial product contracting that is govt involved
17:50.29 brlcad since this is a free product, and from govt
17:52.42 ``Erik yeah, but *shrug* better to have explicit ok first
17:52.49 ``Erik cya
18:05.14 clock_ brlcad: and is it possible to live in Switzerland and work for US?
18:09.46 brlcad depends who you work for and what sort of job
18:10.47 brlcad for what was just mentioned about contracted tasks/bounties, sure
18:16.46 clock_ hmm but I mean permanent employment
18:21.14 brlcad that's considerably harder
18:21.23 brlcad for many reasons
18:21.56 brlcad not impossible, but the person would have to be proven to be worth it beforehand given the effort it'd take to even try
18:31.43 ``Erik so he runs off, heh
18:31.44 ``Erik :D
18:33.41 joevalleyfield beer
18:33.53 ``Erik give me some
18:33.53 archivist mysql works that way
18:37.31 brlcad mysql works on beer
18:38.58 archivist mysql works on every box i run
18:39.07 joevalleyfield how many run beer?
18:39.35 archivist i wish
18:43.06 archivist feeding coffe to a pc is definately not a good idea (dead mb)
18:43.56 ``Erik my ibook got hung over when I fed it beer
18:44.22 ``Erik (quit working, wouldn't boot, two days later, it was ok)
18:45.57 ``Erik http://www.bsdguru.org/img/inst_po_konferencji_640.jpg o.O
18:46.16 archivist i spent a couple of hours washing my mb waited till it dried still buggered though, damn thing was only a few weeks old, had to get another
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19:15.40 joevalleyfield anyone here embed python?
19:16.03 brlcad minimal exp in bz
19:16.36 joevalleyfield can you point me in a direction for getting the ldflags?
19:17.03 joevalleyfield should i just do a straight-forward lib test like brlcad does for tcl?
19:20.42 brlcad hmm.. that particular bz plugin used scons, but lemme check what it did
19:21.52 brlcad heh, well since scons is already python, it was conveniently on hand via the python interpreter
19:21.58 brlcad python_lib = ['python%d.%d' % sys.version_info[0:2]]
19:21.58 brlcad python_libpath = [sysconfig.get_python_lib (0, 1) + '/config']
19:21.58 brlcad python_include = [sysconfig.get_python_inc ()]
19:21.59 brlcad python_linkflags = Split (sysconfig.get_config_var('LINKFORSHARED'))
19:22.32 joevalleyfield once i've run path python
19:23.35 joevalleyfield nevermind
19:23.38 brlcad yeah, once you've detected python, you can invoke and pull the values
19:23.46 joevalleyfield where does it get the sysconfig module?
19:23.54 brlcad import sys
19:24.16 brlcad oh, sysconfig
19:24.20 brlcad from distutils import sysconfig
19:24.57 joevalleyfield ah, it is in dist utils :)
19:25.09 joevalleyfield much thansks
19:47.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (reshoot.c reshoot.1): (log message trimmed)
19:47.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: This is an application for re-shooting rays and comparing the results
19:47.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: to previous applicatin runs. The princiiple use will probably be
19:47.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: in the regression test suite. In that context, it should allow us
19:47.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: to shoot all the MUVES test suite rays outside of MUVES. The one downside
19:47.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: is that it relies on the RT_G_DEBUG flag DEBUG_ALLHITS to cause librt
19:47.20 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: to log the original rays. Since floating point values are logged with %g some
19:49.55 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-89-199.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:50.09 clock_ brlcad: should I send you my CV?
19:55.51 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.1: Added a "BUGS" section with suitable caveats for precision loss
20:30.09 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
20:47.11 clock_ brlcad: here?
21:03.21 ``Erik he's busy
21:06.15 *** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com)
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22:04.09 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
22:05.56 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.c: better output formatting
22:38.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (reshoot.1 reshoot.c): extended documentation, code formatting, modified reporting
22:40.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: added reshoot notice.
23:46.22 ``Erik home at last
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060106

02:42.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: flubber fubber
03:09.44 pra5ad i hate the way sen to chihiro ends
03:18.26 pra5ad daaamn back to back studio ghibli movies on TCM
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08:41.38 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
08:42.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c:
08:42.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: init the rt_uniresource structure if it hasn't been initialized yet so that we
08:42.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: can call db_dirbuild() directly without necessarily needing to worry about
08:42.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: initializing a resource structure. this mimicks the behavior and initialization
08:42.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: that rt_dirbuild() performas as well.
08:49.57 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: initial stubbed g_transfer example application for transferring portions of a geometry database over a network line serialized. incomplete, but provides the main organization.
08:50.38 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: add the new g_transfer.c file to the build including the creation of the g_transfer example database application for transferring portions of a .g over the wire serialized.
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14:38.42 *** join/#brlcad tippel (n=c3532a82@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:41.17 tippel hi there
14:42.09 fenn mornin
14:44.33 tippel I'm discovering BRL-CAD and I was wondering if I can carry CSG/boolean operations out and obtain a mesh of the result
14:44.40 tippel good morning fenn
14:45.07 brlcad tippel: morning
14:45.10 brlcad and yes you can
14:45.54 brlcad several of the geometry converters do that, there is also a "mesh" primitive in brl-cad that you can convert geometry to (called a BoT or "Bag of Triangles")
14:47.08 brlcad you just can't go from mesh back to the csg form since the associativity and operations are lost
14:47.44 clock_ brlcad: hi
14:48.13 brlcad tippel: check out the 'facetize' command in mged and several of the g-* commands outside mged (e.g. g-stl, g-vrml)
14:48.19 brlcad clock_: moin moin
14:48.26 clock_ brlcad: should I send my CV?
14:48.32 tippel ok thank you, my team is developping applications which need CSG operations but we would like to obtain BoT. Today we're using Open Cascade but this API is very heavy
14:49.20 brlcad if you want to programmatically create csg geometry, there are lots of coding examples
14:49.48 brlcad the src/proc-db directory and the src/mk directory both contain a couple dozen examples
14:50.41 brlcad plus our license is generally more friendly (and if it gets in the way of something you want to do, let me know)
14:54.23 tippel ok and is brlcad robust with coplanar polygons during a sub boolean operation ? (a rectangular hole, in a wall )
14:55.23 brlcad within the numerical tolerance of your hardware, sure
14:56.08 brlcad if there's floating point fuzz that make them seem distinct, there can be issues but the raytracer will visually show you whether that's an issue
14:56.26 brlcad plug you there are 5 different tolerances you can set turing tesselation
14:56.48 brlcad numerical computation tolerance, curvature tolerance, absolute tolerance, etc
14:59.48 ``Erik I saw a wall once
15:00.32 ``Erik sean, 8pm, dude... :D
15:00.38 brlcad oh yeah!
15:00.48 brlcad thx, i'd forgot
15:01.22 ``Erik should I try to remember to remind you again when I leave at like 6?
15:02.06 brlcad hehe
15:02.14 brlcad nah, now it'll be stuck in my head all day
15:02.22 ``Erik 'k
15:03.51 tippel ok thank you very much (I hate webchat :) )
15:04.42 brlcad feel free to get a real irc client and hang around ;)
15:04.54 ``Erik BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE
15:04.56 ``Erik wokkawokka
15:05.15 brlcad irssi in screen
15:05.28 tippel yes but at work, my firewall is not very kind with me :(
15:05.47 ``Erik heh
15:05.57 ``Erik so ssh into your home box? :D
15:06.30 tippel ssh on port 80 ;)
15:07.07 tippel because port 22 is closed too :'(
15:07.21 tippel I wish I had time to do that
15:07.38 ``Erik silly firewall admins, thinking they can control behavior by blocking ports
15:08.43 tippel yep
15:08.57 tippel are you all brlcad developpers ?
15:09.26 brlcad some are, some aren't
15:09.33 tippel ok
15:09.35 brlcad i am
15:09.59 fenn i'm writing a program that may or may not use brlcad libs
15:10.04 tippel brlcad : I guessed ;)
15:10.24 tippel ok
15:12.23 *** join/#brlcad flocou (n=c3532a82@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:13.05 tippel hi flocou
15:13.24 flocou yep
15:13.36 brlcad howdy flocou
15:14.04 brlcad heh, a matching pair
15:14.18 flocou well, thx...buzness neighbor of tippel...
15:14.47 brlcad what sort of business if you can share?
15:15.29 brlcad making those little metal tips on the end of pencils?
15:15.58 flocou brlcad is rather new for us...we're looking for strong open source CSG package...aim is to compute 3D shape representation of IFC models (do U know this format ?)...and to replace OpenCascade CSG computations...
15:19.11 brlcad brl-cad's raytrace library is one of the oldest established csg packages around
15:20.00 brlcad don't know the "IFC" format explicitly but from what I know of the data model, it's a pretty trivial mapping
15:20.24 tippel IFC is a STEP-based product model
15:20.24 brlcad especially with ifc's idea of modeling "space" and brl-cad's concept of air regions
15:20.34 brlcad ahhh
15:20.57 tippel Industry Foundation Classes, used for AEC
15:21.20 brlcad you mean that bastard iso spec sitting in a box with over 10K pages sitting right over .. *kicks box* here?
15:23.13 ``Erik damn, I'm hungry
15:23.22 tippel But IFC doesn't use all spec of STEP
15:23.27 brlcad and that 10+k pages is only 5 subsets of 10303, ap11, ap203, ap214, ..
15:23.40 flocou AFAIK, it seems to be possible to export csg geometry results to vrml ? another issue is : is brlcad thread-safe ?
15:24.34 brlcad tippel: which is a good thing -- i don't think most cad companies could afford to support the entire 10303 -- it fills about 40 feet of shelf space printed
15:24.38 tippel flocou : brlcad told me that you can use and import/export bag of triangles
15:24.52 brlcad flocou: yes, there is a vrml exporter
15:25.20 tippel of course, IFC uses only 10303-11 (express language) and 10303-21 (files exchange)
15:25.36 tippel and is quite inspired from 10303-42 (geometric representation)
15:25.39 brlcad it used to be vrml 1.0 but was upgraded to vrml 2 without retaining a toggle for 1, wouldn't take much to revert or readd support
15:26.36 brlcad that just means ifc is sufficiently generic, 21 allows for arbitrary higher-level ap conformance whcih you have to support if you want to actually write a converter (e.g. ap203, ap214)
15:26.50 brlcad ap42 is just gravy
15:27.10 tippel Is brlcad thread safe ?
15:27.18 brlcad flocou: yes, brl-cad is extensively thread safe or the functions are marked if when they are not
15:27.38 brlcad the entire raytrace library is specifically geared for massive parallel computation
15:27.54 brlcad which is what drives most of the csg analysis
15:28.04 brlcad s/most/all/
15:28.48 brlcad brl-cad has it's own multiprocessing management as well that you can just enable
15:29.15 brlcad so that geometry is prepared in parallel, walk databases in parallel, etc
15:31.09 tippel is this multiprocessing management compatible with sgi sproc or pthread ?
15:31.59 brlcad by default on sgi, it prefers sproc
15:32.07 brlcad but could be compiled to use pthread
15:32.25 brlcad sproc preferrered for performance reasons usually (though yeah, incompatible)
15:36.32 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: new geometry examples aren't going to happen this iteration
15:38.13 clock_ brlcad: have you fixed some of the bugs I reported?
15:39.01 tippel ok thx
15:39.44 flocou ok, thx brlcad for all these precisions...
15:41.21 brlcad clock_: some yes, some no.. working on them
15:41.45 brlcad this month is a bit difficult since the windows merge is also going on
15:42.02 brlcad and archer was added
15:42.10 brlcad massive code merging
15:42.29 brlcad still not back to stable builds on head yet
15:45.43 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
15:47.39 clock_ brlcad: windows merge? what is it?
15:47.59 clock_ brlcad: what does kick the tires mean?
15:56.08 brlcad clock_: we've been working on the brl-cad port to windows for some time now (several years actually)
15:56.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING:
15:56.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: additional release may be made on an as-needed basis for bug-fix releases and
15:56.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: security issues. December/January time frame is considered a single release
15:56.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: iteration in order to accommodate holidays and vacations, and to give the devs a
15:56.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: break.
15:57.01 brlcad the work accelerated this summer, with a cvs branch getting created that had all of the modifications necessary for windows
15:57.43 brlcad these modifications were recently merged in with the core of brl-cad (so that we can start consistently making windows binary releases in addition to our usual plethora of systems)
15:58.06 clock_ brlcad: wow!
15:58.13 brlcad kicking the tires is an expression, means try it out
15:58.24 brlcad archer is a new modeling interface
15:58.42 brlcad worked on by the same guys that worked on the windows port
16:00.47 tippel bye all
16:04.21 fenn brlcad: i converted the 19MB ApplicationDevelopment file to html, so that others wouldn't have to download a 19MB file and find out there was only about 20K of text
16:04.54 fenn http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/ApplicationDevelopment.html
16:05.13 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
16:05.43 brlcad hmm
16:05.48 brlcad ~ping fenn.dydns.org
16:05.50 ibot pong fenn.dydns.org
16:07.23 brlcad fenn: thanks, I'll post it
16:07.29 brlcad (and agree)
16:08.01 brlcad it was a presentation that was just provided for convenience since it's a fairly frequent request
16:08.35 brlcad fenn: mind you that presentation is fairly specific to writing analysis-style applications
16:08.49 fenn right
16:08.49 brlcad if you are writing out geometry, you don't really need to be concerned with most of that
16:09.30 fenn how do i test intersection of two solids?
16:10.14 fenn do a boolean intersection and see if anything is left?
16:11.33 brlcad ah, we call those overlaps
16:11.50 brlcad confused me there for a sec
16:12.10 fenn er sorry, i'm talking about collision detection
16:12.11 brlcad boolean intersections inherintly don't "overlap"
16:12.16 brlcad right
16:12.27 fenn havent slept yet :)
16:12.41 brlcad me either ;)
16:12.56 brlcad almost time for midday coffee
16:13.58 brlcad for testing intersection of two implicitly defined objects, you have to use ray introspection
16:14.18 fenn .
16:14.21 fenn oops
16:14.40 brlcad just mathematically due to the nature of implicits
16:14.54 brlcad now if you convert it to an explicit model, there are other techniques available
16:15.13 brlcad but brl-cad deals best with implicits currently
16:15.17 fenn what is the difference between explicit and implicit geometry?
16:16.04 brlcad implicit geometry has no defined boundary, it's a mathematical model
16:16.20 brlcad numerically defined by mathematical geometric shapes
16:16.38 fenn like a sphere
16:16.38 brlcad e.g. an ellipsoid defined by a point and major and minor radius
16:16.51 brlcad take that same object and represent it differently
16:17.02 fenn is a bot explicit?
16:17.03 brlcad say, as a bunch of triangles on the surface
16:17.06 fenn ok
16:17.08 brlcad and you have explicit
16:17.21 brlcad or a set of surface splines, also explicit
16:18.41 brlcad very different problems determining whether i'm "inside" a sphere comprised of a bunch of triangles, or one that's implicit
16:19.13 brlcad for the implicit form, it might be a simple distance test for a sphere, if distance to center is < radius then I'm inside
16:19.35 fenn can i apply a n*m transformation matrix and still end up with implicit geometry?
16:19.36 brlcad for explicit, if all I have are the triangles, I'm performing planar side checks
16:19.43 brlcad sure
16:19.48 fenn (for that matter can i apply a n*m matrix at all?)
16:19.58 brlcad you can apply all the same rigid, non-rigid transformations
16:20.49 brlcad brl-cad has a couple primitives that are not well behaved for certain non-rigid transformations (because mathematically they are not well defined for them) like trying to skew o torus for example
16:31.18 fenn thanks.. seeya
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18:08.43 phcoder :-(
18:23.25 brlcad they sucked, but my quads are jelly now
18:34.28 pier 20 reps and get plenty of GH :)
18:41.46 ``Erik ya'll're sick perverts
18:44.55 brlcad GH?
18:45.26 brlcad gerbil hamsters?
18:45.35 ``Erik gay homosexuals? o.O
18:45.39 ``Erik *duck*
18:46.07 ``Erik grr, six hours and 15 minute
18:46.08 ``Erik s
18:48.06 phcoder did pra5ad do squats?
18:49.49 brlcad he did!
18:49.58 brlcad and didn't collapse
18:50.10 phcoder good for him
18:50.18 phcoder bar? ;-)
18:50.24 phcoder j/k
18:51.17 brlcad heh
18:51.17 brlcad actually
18:51.19 brlcad .. he started with that
18:53.16 phcoder and then...
18:56.20 brlcad 25s
18:56.31 brlcad tried 35s but he couldn't but a couple
18:56.48 brlcad or you mean what other exercise
18:57.40 brlcad after was situps with the medicine ball and pec deck
18:57.55 phcoder no - that's what I meant. i bet the stability was difficult - i remember it was starting out for me...
18:58.03 phcoder good workout today
18:58.05 phcoder :-(
18:58.13 phcoder missed it durnit
19:00.12 brlcad he did surprisingly good form actually
19:01.52 phcoder what'd you do?
19:21.37 pier Growth Hormone
19:24.02 pier acording to Stuart McRobert GH production can naturally increased with 20 reps squat
19:25.16 brlcad ahh
19:25.27 brlcad phcoder: i aint telling
19:26.22 brlcad pier: that sounds a bit dubious for large muscle growth
19:26.37 pier why?
19:26.43 brlcad usually the bigger the muscles, the lower the reps you want for growth
19:27.37 pier as long as you work out large muscles GH and test is increased easing the growth of all muscles
19:28.17 Maloeran The cardiovascular system is usually what you want to train to be in good shapes, not particular groups of muscles
19:28.46 pier try doind 20 reps full speed ahead and you tell me then...
19:29.11 Maloeran Hum sorry but what are "reps", push-ups, pull-ups?
19:29.17 pier I reduced my heart pace from 85 to 55 (idle)
19:30.01 phcoder reps = repetitions
19:30.14 phcoder of some exercise
19:30.21 Maloeran That's rather vague :)
19:30.45 phcoder well - we were talking about squats...
19:30.49 brlcad yet makes complete since if you'd ever lifted ;)
19:30.59 brlcad sense too
19:31.07 phcoder hmm - then maybe 20 reps of ... cleans ... ? :-)
19:31.07 pier maybe but that a fact :)
19:31.15 brlcad bastage! :)
19:31.38 brlcad that would be interesting to try, but it'd have to be such a lower weight
19:31.51 phcoder you know - just 135 should be fine
19:31.55 brlcad my joints couldn't take that many
19:31.55 pier I own up I wouldn't be able to make a clean even with a broom stick
19:32.36 brlcad phcoder: did full stack on peck deck :)
19:33.03 brlcad pier: yet sounds like you workout some?
19:33.10 pier a bit
19:33.31 pier been dooing that for the past five years
19:33.32 phcoder full stack huh... hrmph
19:35.45 brlcad think it was 140 or 130
19:35.59 brlcad several yeps then peaked
19:39.45 Maloeran I still think the time would be much better spent running, for example... :) though I never lifted
19:41.08 brlcad good stuff
19:41.19 brlcad i bike or row for my cardio
19:44.20 Maloeran *nods* Quite good. Besides when Montreal is covered in snow, I'm used to do 30km daily too ( 18 miles? )
19:46.58 brlcad ~convert 30 km to m
19:47.06 brlcad heh
19:47.09 brlcad ~convert 30 km to miles
19:48.54 *** part/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
19:51.00 ``Erik what the frack...
19:51.13 brlcad no no
19:51.16 brlcad what the frell
19:51.51 ``Erik ... ok, how about... what the flying fuck did that fucking fucktard do to the fucking source
19:51.54 ``Erik better? :)
19:52.09 brlcad hm, i suppose it's time for bsg lingo, always liked farscapes though :)
19:52.47 brlcad at least this isn't
19:52.52 brlcad .. ever, never mind
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21:17.10 pier Could there be a reason why fb-png gets stuck?
21:19.09 brlcad gets stuck?
21:19.27 brlcad never seen it get stuck, slow maybe, but not stuck
21:19.52 pier Hi brlcad, yes it always worked but now ..
21:20.20 brlcad only reason it might get stuck is if the framebuffer isn't responding
21:20.24 pier maybe I added some perticoular object that is not allowed
21:20.39 brlcad fb-png knows nothing about objects
21:20.44 pier ok
21:20.53 brlcad it's just pixel manipulation
21:21.07 brlcad network communication, file writing
21:21.19 pier exec fb-png -w 1024 -n 768 -F:0 frs.png
21:21.39 pier is the syntax correct?
21:21.41 brlcad ahh, heh
21:21.55 brlcad so calling from inside mged presumably?
21:22.07 brlcad is mged frozen?
21:22.19 pier from both inside and outside
21:22.20 brlcad should usually just call from outside mged
21:22.24 pier yes ... blocked
21:22.31 brlcad is the framebuffer on?
21:22.34 brlcad and listening?
21:22.34 pier yes
21:22.38 pier yes
21:22.53 pier listen for client is checked
21:23.22 brlcad hmm
21:23.44 brlcad and mged isn't hung?
21:23.48 brlcad i.e. menus work, etc
21:23.49 pier I am beig trying again from a terminal
21:24.09 pier yes .. mged working
21:24.26 pier frame buffer 0 is on
21:24.59 pier top doesn't reveal any buzz from fb-png
21:25.03 brlcad what's the window size?
21:25.14 pier ehmm
21:25.30 brlcad oh!
21:25.34 pier how do I know?
21:25.38 brlcad framebuffer arg isn't right
21:25.38 pier sorry
21:25.39 brlcad -F0
21:26.14 brlcad still might not work, but :0 means localhost port 0
21:26.29 brlcad instead of just first port
21:27.12 pier no activity... neither with :F0
21:27.21 pier -F0
21:27.33 brlcad try fb-png -F0 file.png
21:27.40 pier png file created but empty
21:28.03 pier already done... I'll try again
21:28.24 brlcad it shouldn't take long
21:28.27 brlcad see if the file created
21:28.54 pier file's there zero bytes
21:29.10 pier spooky... it always worked
21:29.33 pier still frozen
21:29.37 brlcad hmm..
21:29.56 brlcad can you raytrace inside mged?
21:30.08 pier I have a fancy I messed something
21:30.13 pier perfectly
21:30.33 pier raytrace inside mged works fine
21:30.59 brlcad what about raytracing directly to file
21:31.10 pier gonna kill fb-png and rm png file created
21:31.26 brlcad actually ..
21:31.29 brlcad yeah do that then..
21:31.41 brlcad run this: fbserv 1 /dev/Xl &
21:31.48 pier ok
21:32.24 pier mged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/Xl &
21:32.24 pier 13417
21:32.24 pier pkg_permserver: bind: errno=98
21:32.24 pier mged>
21:32.33 pier from terminal?
21:32.39 brlcad ahh
21:32.46 brlcad mged's isn't on 0
21:32.54 pier lord
21:33.03 pier and where?
21:33.06 brlcad try fb-png -F1 file.png
21:33.40 pier strike
21:34.24 pier brlcad what's happening?
21:34.31 pier it worked now
21:34.33 brlcad strike as it didn't work?
21:34.45 pier no no... it worked :)
21:34.47 brlcad ahh
21:34.48 brlcad good
21:35.14 brlcad for whatever reason, when you started mged, it couldn't use port 0
21:35.25 brlcad so it tries the next available
21:35.31 pier so it is using port 1
21:35.31 brlcad which was apparently 1
21:35.43 brlcad maybe you started that mged while another was running
21:35.50 pier was making me crazy
21:36.05 pier not really
21:36.06 brlcad or you had an fbserv, or raytrace in progress to a lingering one.. various things
21:36.16 brlcad for whatever reason, 0 was taken
21:36.38 brlcad ps auxwww|grep mged maybe to make sure there's not a stale mged
21:36.38 pier how can I find out what process is working on 0
21:36.48 pier ok
21:37.12 pier pier@darkstar:~/brlcad/bin$ ps aux | grep mged
21:37.12 pier pier 13358 0.2 2.4 19460 12628 ? S 22:13 0:02 mged
21:37.13 pier pier@darkstar:~/brlcad/bin$
21:37.35 pier it looks like only one is running
21:38.30 brlcad telnet localhost 5559
21:39.26 brlcad do you get:
21:39.36 brlcad Trying 127.0.0.1...
21:39.36 brlcad Connected to localhost (127.0.0.1).
21:39.37 brlcad Escape character is '^]'.
21:39.41 brlcad or something different
21:39.49 pier exactly the same
21:40.00 brlcad then there is a framebuffer listening :)
21:40.10 brlcad somewhere
21:40.50 pier is it a zombie process?
21:40.59 brlcad you can disconnect from that with a ctrl-]
21:41.11 brlcad then 'quit'
21:41.28 pier done
21:42.26 brlcad lsof | grep 55
21:42.49 brlcad lsof | grep 5559
21:45.14 pier fb-png 13207 pier txt REG 3,1 27867 205505 /home/pier/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/fb-png
21:45.14 pier fb-png 13207 pier mem REG 3,1 6556762 200390 /usr/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/i686-pc-linux-gnu/lib/libtcl8.4.so.19.0.1
21:45.14 pier fb-png 13207 pier mem REG 3,1 33552 153295 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.so.6.0
21:45.14 pier fb-png 13207 pier 8u IPv4 718867 TCP *:5559 (LISTEN)
21:45.14 pier fb-png 13207 pier 9u IPv4 759842 TCP localhost:37324->localhost:5559 (ESTABLISHED)
21:45.32 pier mged is not running now
21:45.39 brlcad ahh
21:46.00 pier what is all that rubbish?
21:46.08 brlcad you ran an fb-png -F:0 before running mged or at least before raytracing in mged
21:46.23 brlcad so the fb-png starts up as a server
21:46.35 brlcad expecting streaming input
21:47.03 brlcad (that's so you can string together fb-png with pipes)
21:47.12 pier I don't remember ...
21:47.54 brlcad :)
21:48.11 brlcad probably the very first thing you did before raytracing
21:48.28 brlcad you can kill it (or find it and kill it
21:48.44 pier ok
21:49.48 pier fb-png is no longer running
21:50.48 pier lsof | grep 55 doesn't return fb-png messages
21:52.17 pier I'll try to give the command again
21:56.08 pier incredible... again not working :,(
21:58.35 brlcad lsof |grep LISTEN
21:58.47 pier fb-png -F2 frs6.png worked now
21:59.05 pier NULL
22:00.14 pier lsof |grep LISTEN -> nothing
22:00.29 brlcad eh, is mged running?
22:00.35 pier yes
22:01.19 brlcad hmm, then it should be listening
22:01.23 brlcad framebuffer active?
22:01.35 brlcad lsof | grep mged
22:01.50 pier nuthin
22:08.03 pier yes framebuffer active
22:15.02 brlcad i'm not sure really, if lsof doesn't show it, it's not open -- that's a system tool
22:15.25 brlcad "open file" listing
22:15.57 pier ok I spotted it now
22:16.22 pier gave just lsfo
22:19.30 pier killed
22:22.28 pier thank you very much! I have learnt something else.
22:23.44 pier now can go to bed and rest... 2morrow legs at the gym for me too
22:28.10 brlcad sounds great
22:28.24 brlcad i should go row now that you mention..
22:28.31 brlcad cheers!
22:29.28 pier night and thanks (rowing... fantastic)
22:31.32 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
22:31.35 phcoder brlcad: dinner?
22:32.59 brlcad tonight?!
22:33.03 brlcad it's it's ..
22:33.09 phcoder friday
22:33.15 phcoder yes. it is.
22:33.22 brlcad start of the new season for sg1, atlantis, bsg :)
22:33.41 phcoder we have that channel, for now.
22:33.47 phcoder all on tonight?
22:33.51 phcoder one after the other?
22:33.58 brlcad yup
22:34.05 phcoder interesting. come over.
22:34.14 brlcad heh
22:34.24 brlcad so.. tiny :)
22:35.25 phcoder i just said that to nettie: he probably will complain about the small screen ;-)
22:35.56 brlcad hehe
22:35.58 phcoder too bad i can't pipe TV to my 30 in
22:36.06 brlcad seriously, that'd be sweet
22:36.18 phcoder oh yes. i bet I can get a card for it... hmmmmmmm
22:36.36 brlcad they used to make 1 card and 1 usb device with crappy quality
22:36.43 phcoder for os x?
22:36.52 phcoder maybe hauppage has one
22:36.54 brlcad haven't looked in months though .. i've wanted that for a long time
22:37.05 phcoder so - comin over?
22:37.17 brlcad easy to find the cards, hard to find os x supported one
22:37.26 phcoder yeah
22:38.39 brlcad nah, not tonight .. going to gym again for a lil bit then showtime in my dungeon
22:40.40 *** join/#brlcad coderwife (n=nettie@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
22:42.25 phcoder fine
22:42.41 phcoder we'll see what coderwife has to say about that
23:01.24 *** part/#brlcad coderwife (n=nettie@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
23:03.55 ``Erik heh
23:04.01 ``Erik starts at 8, scifi...
23:05.13 phcoder buh bye
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060107

00:20.20 ``Erik *yawn*
02:24.12 pra5ad got back just in time
02:24.13 pra5ad yay
03:57.26 pra5ad daaamn what an ep =)
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21:27.09 tegtmeye er
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22:34.25 PrezKennedy 4.0 GPA this semester!!!
23:00.59 *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:00.59 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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23:53.38 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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23:57.29 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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23:59.33 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060108

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060108

00:22.05 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
00:22.05 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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00:28.34 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
01:21.07 PrezKennedy ill reconsider a gov't job when our fine senators and representatives and GWB have to sit through ethics training like the rest of us
01:41.29 pra5ad hear hear
02:04.22 tegtmeye yo
02:26.58 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
02:40.49 pra5ad sup mike
02:48.57 tegtmeye hows the engine?
03:14.42 pra5ad slow progress
03:14.53 pra5ad most of the time spent on 'OO' design
03:14.57 pra5ad =(
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19:09.25 *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
19:09.44 mahesh hi Sean
19:10.01 brlcad howdy mahesh
19:10.03 brlcad been a while
19:10.09 mahesh yeah
19:10.14 brlcad at least a while since you've spoken :)
19:10.20 mahesh true
19:10.28 mahesh as usual, had few questions
19:10.32 brlcad how's the vacation?
19:10.44 mahesh its good....enjoying
19:11.00 brlcad that's good
19:11.25 mahesh howz yours?
19:12.27 clock_ brlcad: hi
19:12.50 brlcad no vacation here yet, but the holidays were nice
19:12.54 brlcad hi clock_
19:14.40 mahesh nice
19:16.14 mahesh there is rt_shootray defined in shoot.c and vshoot.c
19:16.44 brlcad yes, no need to worry about the latter
19:17.03 brlcad that's for vectorized computation
19:17.24 mahesh oh ok. my code currently breaks in rt_shootray
19:17.35 mahesh i am trying to figure out why exactly that is happening
19:17.44 brlcad backtrace?
19:18.01 mahesh as of now, all the processors gets a certain chunk of pixel
19:18.16 mahesh then when everyone tries to call rt_shootray
19:18.33 brlcad how do they all get the geometry?
19:18.34 mahesh the initiator node works fine but others blow up
19:18.40 mahesh how do i backtrace?
19:18.51 brlcad ever used gdb?
19:19.11 mahesh yeah
19:19.47 brlcad can run it in gdb to see where it halts, not sure how that'll work on the remote nodes though
19:20.09 brlcad if you can get the remote to generate a core file, you could get a backtrace with that
19:20.38 brlcad how'd you determine it was in rt_shootray to begin with?
19:21.40 mahesh pretty ugly way but it works. i just used a print statement just before the call to rt_shootray and a statement after the function call.
19:22.09 mahesh so all the nodes print the first statement
19:23.10 brlcad hehe
19:23.21 brlcad so "somewhere" inside of rt_shootray() :)
19:23.59 mahesh yeah
19:24.43 brlcad how are you invoking rt?
19:24.54 brlcad there are debug flags you can pass at runtime
19:25.01 brlcad that will cause loads of output
19:26.08 mahesh mpirun -np <no. of processors> ./rt model.g <objects>
19:26.22 brlcad the -x parameter for starters, try -x 1
19:27.21 mahesh ok
19:27.58 brlcad there are bit fields defined in include/raytrace.h for DEBUG_* -- pass that to -x to get various sorts of debug output
19:29.24 brlcad 1 is to print debug information about calls to rt_shootray() ;)
19:29.43 brlcad 15 should be "everything" related to shotlining (first four bits)
19:29.44 mahesh oh great. i wanted exactly that
19:30.03 brlcad #define DEBUG_ALLRAYS 0x00000001 /* 1 Print calls to rt_shootray() */
19:30.04 brlcad #define DEBUG_ALLHITS 0x00000002 /* 2 Print partitions passed to a_hit() */
19:30.06 brlcad #define DEBUG_SHOOT 0x00000004 /* 3 Info about rt_shootray() processing */
19:30.09 brlcad #define DEBUG_INSTANCE 0x00000008 /* 4 regionid instance revectoring */
19:30.48 brlcad add up the values you want and that should be what you can provide to -x
19:30.54 mahesh got it
19:33.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: add an optional geometry argument for specifying what geometry to send (default is all); add a help option and make short options case insensitive
19:46.04 learner big legs aren't going to help me bench next month
19:46.29 learner neither will writing into the wrong window ;)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060109

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060109

02:33.03 *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
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10:04.56 clock__ brlcad: funny comic strip about ronja -> http://ronja.twibright.com/shamrock.png
10:05.04 clock__ brlcad: do you have comic strip about brlcad? :)
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14:20.43 brlcad clock__: heh, maybe but none come to mind
14:23.02 clock__ brlcad: something with m1a1 abrams :)
14:24.00 ``Erik o.O
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17:08.34 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
17:45.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
17:45.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: commit a version that walks the specified geometry both with db_walk_tree() and
17:45.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: db_functree(). db_functree was ultimately considerably more simple for this
17:45.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: exercise, but useful to see what was provided with db_walk_tree and the
17:45.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: differences. add support to run the client either passing all geometry or just a
17:45.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: subset (hence the subtree walking)
17:46.29 *** join/#brlcad kaol (n=kari@sammakko.yok.utu.fi)
17:51.51 clock__ brlcad: what would you do if someone posted lots of bugreports, which would be technically correct, but would write them in a way you wouldn't like, were emotionally loaded and critical to you or the project?
17:52.05 clock__ brlcad: would you ban the poster with a message "banned for trolling"?
17:56.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: get rid of the db_walk_tree method since db_functree is considerably more simple for this purpose. stash the server details into our data struct.
17:56.22 brlcad clock__: it really would depend on the language and intent
17:57.04 brlcad if the intent was to cause trouble, they would probably either be blocked from posting or reported for abuse
17:57.50 brlcad if they were just upset of some issue, it would get disregarded and treated like any other report
17:58.24 brlcad more likely it would get closed/unresolved if there was insufficient details to reproduce the problem
18:02.45 clock__ brlcad: it would be a short proposal of particular change in documentation, with lots of text why it's important which would include emotionally charged parable that would strongly criticize the current state
18:06.02 clock__ brlcad: then you have different approach than gentoo ;-)
18:09.33 *** join/#brlcad toresbe (i=tsb@developer.skolelinux.no)
18:10.57 toresbe hey
18:11.19 toresbe hmm.
18:11.21 toresbe bye.
18:11.22 *** part/#brlcad toresbe (i=tsb@developer.skolelinux.no)
18:26.48 kaol hello. I'm going to package brlcad for Debian. wish me luck. ;-)
18:28.28 brlcad excellent
18:29.37 brlcad kaol: there was a guy that made a package for Debian back 6+ months for 7.6.0
18:30.27 brlcad most of the stuff is outdated now or changed (e.g. dual-licensed docs) considerably, but it might be a starting point http://scientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/brlcad/
18:30.56 brlcad plus wasn't too fond of the "install everything into /usr/share/brlcad part"
18:31.04 brlcad but it was a good first stab
18:31.37 brlcad still looking for someone interested enough to become the debian sponsor/maintainer for us, though -- I don't keep debian systems on hand readily enough myself
18:31.57 kaol hmm. I didn't see anything about that in the request for package bug report.
18:32.31 brlcad hmm.. i don't remember knowing that there was a request for package report ;)
18:32.40 kaol thanks for the pointer, I'll see if there's anything I can use
18:32.48 kaol http://bugs.debian.org/289684
18:33.40 brlcad thanks for the link, good to know
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19:33.15 ``Erik grar, arms tightening up o.O
19:42.52 kaol I've packaged a few apps from scratch and adopted a couple too. But I've done nothing of this scale yet.
19:44.02 ``Erik is there a good webpage describing the process? debian packaging for dummies?
19:45.08 ``Erik ahhh, the power of local.google :) with the satallite view, I can actually find the trail I walk on
19:47.45 kaol there's the new maintainer's guide (http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/)
19:48.13 kaol developer's reference and the policy are the major references
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19:57.07 brlcad we used to have automated rpm generation, there's a script stub in sh/ but i'd be surprised if it didn't need tweaking
20:04.05 ``Erik hm, I do mine in Makefile.am with configure generating an rpm.spec from rpm.spec.in
20:04.23 ``Erik I thought I strapped that into brlcad when I converted it to automake
20:06.39 brlcad wow
20:06.51 brlcad so prasad was whining, I bet
20:06.58 brlcad his jelly legs
20:11.35 ``Erik huh? heh, I'm not at the office, rdo
20:11.54 ``Erik I went to the 'clubhouse' where I live, then walked the greenway
20:12.00 brlcad ahh
20:12.08 ``Erik <-- boggled he could get 130 up
20:12.21 brlcad hehe
20:12.26 brlcad already passed up pra5ad
20:12.57 ``Erik heh
20:13.00 ``Erik and he's bigger than me
20:13.00 ``Erik pheer
20:13.04 ``Erik what's he pushing?
20:13.18 ``Erik <-- did two sets of 70, a set of 100, then 130 once, is a pussy
20:14.19 brlcad maybe about the same, last time was about 3 sets of 10x95 iirc
20:14.35 brlcad he's still learning his balance
20:14.41 brlcad but making progress
20:15.00 ``Erik can't stick him in a universal until he gets some tone?
20:15.36 brlcad doing that too
20:17.19 ``Erik http://www.mypyramidtracker.gov/ is interesting
20:17.59 brlcad heh, i read about that in one of my lifting mags just last night
20:18.43 ``Erik the ui is rough, but it's interesting
20:19.08 ``Erik I'm gonna try to use it to help me figure out what to eat
20:19.31 ``Erik my diet of burgers, pizza, bratwurst, and eggs is probably not entirely healthy
20:19.35 ``Erik :)
20:20.51 ``Erik you bastards and your gym trips, tricking me from the pure path of chuck and ed o.O
20:24.03 archivist geeks and programmers arnt supposed to exercise afaik
20:26.22 brlcad heh
20:43.04 ``Erik that's an odd stereotype
20:43.21 ``Erik we don't play team sports, but we exercise...
20:43.28 phcoder yay, Erik, went to the gym, eh?
20:43.33 ``Erik ayup
20:43.41 ``Erik had to search for my proxy card, heh
20:43.45 ``Erik been so long since I've gone
20:43.50 phcoder keep it up. don't listen to that stuff about programmers not exercising ;-)
20:44.13 phcoder go every day with us...
20:44.28 ``Erik in the middle of the day? no way, that's more of a late afternoon activity
20:44.40 phcoder it's not too bad...
20:45.01 ``Erik plus, I'm trying to get fat, so I have to keep eating 2000 kcal greaseslop at lunch
20:45.15 phcoder well, it won't take too long then
20:47.10 brlcad heh, yet
22:42.35 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:42.53 tegtmeye brlcad,, you around?
22:49.26 brlcad occasionally
22:55.29 tegtmeye having some issues with shooting rays on brlcad
22:56.16 brlcad i have the example extracting external forms of the geometry for transport now in the example app if you're interested
22:56.19 tegtmeye in application str, the file has...
22:56.25 tegtmeye a_ray.r_dirUNIT VECTOR with direction to fire in (dir cosines)
22:56.34 tegtmeye big yep!
22:56.45 tegtmeye ? is, what is dir cosines?
22:57.27 tegtmeye is the code in cvs?
22:57.32 brlcad yeah
22:57.48 brlcad still got some more to put into it, but it shows the tree walking and getting external
22:58.01 tegtmeye sweet!
22:58.14 brlcad i still have to have the client form the connection, send to remote, and reform an in-memory-only .g
23:03.22 ``Erik *burp*
23:05.03 tegtmeye ny idea on the cosines?
23:07.19 *** join/#brlcad polyspin (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:07.23 brlcad not sure what's mean by the dir cosigns comment
23:07.25 brlcad maybe he does
23:07.44 tegtmeye who?
23:07.59 brlcad the one that just joined ;)
23:08.10 polyspin evening all
23:08.21 brlcad howdy
23:08.42 polyspin What's this about dir cosines?
23:08.51 brlcad polyspin: a_ray.r_dirIUNIT VECTOR with direction to fire in (dir cosines)
23:09.03 brlcad app structure, the ray
23:11.07 polyspin This looks like a lame attempt at saying the vector is/will-be a unit length vector
23:11.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: instead of two separate hook funcs, just use send_to_server() for both the specified geometry case and the non-specified geometry case.
23:11.53 brlcad er, ray structure, not app
23:12.09 polyspin If the vector is unit length, then the tuple gives the cosines of the angles in each of X, Y, Z
23:12.19 polyspin raytrace.h right?
23:12.27 brlcad yeah, it's a comment for the structure
23:12.28 tegtmeye yea
23:13.35 polyspin So for example, a vector at exactly 45deg from each axis would be 0.707, 0.707, 0.707
23:13.51 tegtmeye ahhhh....
23:13.53 polyspin Which happens to be 0.707 = cos(45)
23:16.04 ``Erik heh
23:16.10 tegtmeye cos 270 == cos 90 == 0
23:16.28 tegtmeye how do you define which way your looking on x axis?
23:16.42 tegtmeye I'm a little lost
23:16.49 polyspin The sign on the value.
23:17.02 tegtmeye +0 vs -0 ??
23:17.07 polyspin Again, it's really just a unit length vector. Mike M was trying to be cute.
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23:18.27 polyspin oops. Back again
23:30.24 polyspin brlcad: Any idea when head will build again?
23:51.28 brlcad oop
23:51.30 brlcad he left
23:53.36 ``Erik heh
23:54.21 pra5ad the pain
23:54.25 pra5ad =(
23:54.28 ``Erik the puss
23:54.58 ``Erik me, too
23:56.53 pra5ad did either of u goto the 'one million particle particle system' presentation at siggraph?
23:57.09 brlcad sounds familiar
23:57.20 brlcad done on the card iirc?
23:57.27 pra5ad yea
23:57.36 pra5ad 1024^2 texture + fragment shader
23:58.21 pra5ad impractical in real world use
23:58.26 pra5ad but impressive nonetheless
23:58.38 pra5ad s/impressive/ingenious/
23:58.47 pra5ad :o
23:59.45 archivist what else has the bot up its sleeve
23:59.45 pra5ad woops
23:59.51 pra5ad twas at gdc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060110

00:00.56 brlcad siggrah had it too
00:01.26 brlcad woot, surface continues on sci fi
00:07.17 pra5ad ``Erik, uve seen ghost in the shell right?
00:07.59 ``Erik yes
00:08.41 pra5ad so, ive upgraded my 'bot' idea to build a fuchikoma (when Twingy gets his shiznitz)
00:08.43 pra5ad =)
00:09.54 pra5ad speaking of gits, i gotta order stand alone complex 1&2
00:15.01 pra5ad http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7648/wavetachikoma2pc.jpg
00:15.04 pra5ad heh plan for 1:1
04:02.00 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:31.56 fenn weird i just watched gits2 last night
04:32.18 fenn too much cgi, but oh well
05:12.05 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: libpkg is pretty cool. open a connnection from the client to the server using a really simple handshake protocol. client sends HELO, server listens for that HELO to distinguish valid clients from bogus connnections.
07:10.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: yes, libpkg does rock. send the geometry to the server properly specifying callbacks for the different packet types. server gets a simple processing loop to read in the data and handle the packets.
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07:29.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: free our buffers
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13:06.21 ``Erik 1/det
13:24.26 brlcad 2x/dt
13:59.02 ``Erik heh
13:59.34 ``Erik that was a 1 in my buffer (probably from cmd+1 with no window #1), then an attempt at "/det", tardmonkey :D
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16:17.00 *** join/#brlcad cad931 (n=57010f41@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:18.42 cad931 hi all
18:09.03 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:09.03 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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22:34.58 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Add better support for boolean editing and shader editing. More mods to follow.
22:36.27 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Initial check-in
22:38.34 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the following methods: packTree, unpackTree and unpackTreeGuts
22:39.40 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Update index
22:41.11 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Mods to NOT use Scrolledframe
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060111

00:32.47 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
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01:29.57 ``Erik o.O
01:30.17 ``Erik <-- munches his frozen food
01:30.19 ``Erik where is it?
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03:53.14 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
03:53.43 brlcad ``Erik: across from the Walmart on 40
04:09.22 pra5ad is there a good oss quicken/m$ money variant?
04:09.53 brlcad emacs
04:36.50 justin_ bc
04:46.21 ``Erik gnucash
05:02.14 phcoder is that what you use justin_?
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05:10.56 Maloeran "gnucash" sure has an interesting ring to it
05:11.30 phcoder_ g'night all
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06:06.03 *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
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09:58.12 *** join/#brlcad giuSerpe (n=giuSerpe@host31-48.pool82107.interbusiness.it)
09:58.15 giuSerpe hi all
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13:12.03 *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
15:34.32 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: The edit panels are no longer using Scrolledframes. Modify _select_node method to always update the edit panel. _reset_edit no longer calls _refresh_tree
16:35.01 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Arrange to call the shader changed callback when editing the shader form.
16:37.03 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify the _apply_edit method to not call _refresh_tree.
17:19.22 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
17:31.40 pier Hi everybody
17:34.52 pier I wondered if anyone could explain, or provide the place where to find some more detailed information about instanceing rather then copying a comb group pf objects in brlcad. Thanks :)
17:37.44 pier sorry! I meant referencing objects
18:13.21 brlcad pier: sure
18:15.11 pier hi brlcad
18:15.24 clock_ brlcad: I would like to know as well
18:15.24 pier is the doms over?
18:15.38 clock_ brlcad: I always do it in a way from which brlcad segfaults
18:16.14 brlcad clock_: your method is specifically a bug ;)
18:16.28 brlcad multiply referencing the same object in one combination
18:17.00 brlcad should work, but isn't common practice and apparently mged isn't behaving right when you do that (though raytracing has no problem with it)
18:17.04 clock_ brlcad: is my method a bug of itself or is my method a bug of brlcad?
18:17.16 clock_ brlcad: but how should I do it?
18:17.49 clock_ brlcad: can you propose another method that is as simple as the one I use, and doesn't segfault mged?
18:17.56 clock_ brlcad: btw is this segfault already fixed?
18:19.11 brlcad clock_: i don't think your method is a bug in itself, seems reasonable to union an object N times and apply a different matrix to each
18:19.23 brlcad the bug is just an assumption that mged is making
18:19.29 brlcad yet the libraries are "doing the right thing"
18:19.40 brlcad hence why rt is right
18:19.41 clock_ brlcad: so it isn't fixed yet?
18:19.50 clock_ brlcad: do you have a bugreport from me about the bug?
18:19.56 brlcad yes, I do
18:20.03 brlcad it's not fixed yet
18:20.13 brlcad haven't tracked it down in mged
18:20.16 clock_ brlcad: do you plan to fix it?
18:20.21 brlcad yes
18:20.22 clock_ brlcad: can you reproduce it?
18:20.26 brlcad yes
18:20.50 clock_ hmm I could fix it myself
18:20.53 clock_ if I had time
18:22.04 clock_ if it's not a delayed memory corruption then it's probably trivial to fix
18:23.08 brlcad the problem itself is pretty easy to understand, not so sure about the easiest way to fix
18:23.49 brlcad when you go to apply a matrix, mged doesn't/didn't keep track of which /path/to/geometry you selected when you had multiple 'geometry' in your 'to' object
18:23.58 brlcad so it always applies to the first
18:24.10 brlcad eventually, that causes something to go awry in the display manager iirc
18:25.15 brlcad should just be a matter of adding an index or reference ID so you know which instance you're referring to
18:26.19 brlcad pier: to answer your question, place the objects you want to reference in a combination, and simply refer to that combination by name in other places
18:26.53 brlcad every time you use an object in a combination/region, it's by named reference
18:27.15 pier say I made a gusset with several holes and made a region of it
18:27.16 brlcad it's only when you create a shallow or deep copy that something becomes duplicated
18:27.26 brlcad aha.. heh
18:27.32 brlcad same case as what clock was trying ;)
18:28.04 pier and I need 16 of them
18:28.12 brlcad bizzare that we never ran into that problem here
18:28.49 brlcad pier, basically you make a template combination for a single hole
18:29.01 pier cp-ing all the holes and plates looks the hard way to get the whole thing done
18:30.08 pier ... how do I do that?
18:30.17 pier I mean a template
18:30.24 brlcad you shouldn't need to copy the whole thing, you just need to copy the one combination so you have unique names
18:30.49 pier really??? Is it as simple as that?
18:30.50 brlcad to make a "template", it's just a regular combination
18:31.09 pier I'll try it right away
18:31.10 brlcad even if you have to wrap one combination into another to abstract it
18:31.26 brlcad then copy that wrapper, move it wherever
18:31.33 pier will a region do?
18:31.38 pier as well
18:31.47 brlcad it's SUPPOSED to work without needing unique names, but clock_ did find a bug in that regard
18:31.55 brlcad a region will work just as well
18:32.03 brlcad though you will have to be careful of overlaps
18:32.29 brlcad remember that a region is meant to distinguish something that occupies physical space
18:32.44 pier at the moment I drew a plate and extruded it
18:32.45 brlcad whereas a combination is just a grouping
18:32.54 pier ok I got it
18:33.17 brlcad in pro/e or unigraphics lingo -- a brl-cad region is a part
18:33.35 brlcad combinations below a region are just csg operations
18:33.43 pier ... used to use solid edge / works
18:33.44 brlcad combinations above a region would be an assembly
18:34.02 brlcad same thing in solidworks
18:34.14 pier ok
18:34.48 pier so making cp piastra1.r piastra2.r is supposed to work
18:34.53 brlcad i only mention it as most people don't correctly understand combinations for a while ;)
18:35.00 brlcad sure
18:35.21 brlcad that will only copy the references in piastra1.r
18:35.33 brlcad so piastra2.r is referencing the same objects
18:36.21 brlcad there's a different cp to make a deep copy that actually creates copies of everything underneath piastra1.r
18:36.46 pier ok done.. now the point is ..how do I move the second?
18:36.59 brlcad apply a matrix to it
18:37.10 pier lord I'm so slow..
18:37.19 brlcad gui method, matrix edit on edit menu
18:37.36 brlcad select any of the primitives in the list that are in the copy
18:37.37 pier ok I'll go back to the man page to see what a matrix is...
18:38.13 brlcad no need
18:38.33 brlcad it's a mathematical matrix
18:38.45 brlcad that basically describes how to correctly orient and position the object
18:38.49 brlcad among other things
18:39.10 pier in the menu appears the list of all the sigle shapes
18:39.12 brlcad so every time you rotate something, or move it, or scale it, etc .. that's a change to some matrix
18:39.20 brlcad yes
18:39.28 brlcad pick any of them that say piastra2.r
18:39.36 brlcad then you'll get a second menu
18:39.42 brlcad pick piastra2.r
18:40.07 brlcad then any edit operation will apply directly to piastra2.r
18:40.08 pier that's why I got to a halt .... I was afraid of clicking on a single voice and doing a mess of it
18:40.25 brlcad no danger yet :)
18:40.36 brlcad you can always 'reject' when you're in edit mode
18:41.18 pier there's no region... in the list
18:41.19 brlcad so if you think you screwed up, try typeing the 'reject' command into the cmd window, or select Reject on the edit menu (only necessary when you're in edit mode)
18:41.50 brlcad er, what's your list?
18:42.23 pier clicking menu->matrix sel
18:42.30 brlcad it should be a list like /piastra2.r/someobject/blah /piastra2.r/someobject2/blah /piastra1.r/someobject/blah /piastra1.r/someobject2.blah
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18:42.49 pier yep
18:43.00 pier shapes
18:43.16 brlcad yes, pick _any_ that say piastra2.r
18:43.19 pier and extruded object
18:43.21 pier ok
18:43.37 brlcad i.e. your copy that you want to move
18:43.44 pier ok I double clicked and blam a second menu
18:44.05 brlcad then on the next list, pick piastra2.r if that's what you want to move
18:44.31 pier ok ok
18:44.33 brlcad note that the others in the list would let you apply a transformation to something inside piastra2.r without affecting piastra1.r too
18:44.42 pier now it's smooth
18:45.12 brlcad yes, the interface is a little counter-intuitive since you select a primitive first
18:45.24 pier Lord I made hundreds of damned holes in this machine
18:45.26 brlcad there was a reason for it a long time ago.. ;)
18:45.46 brlcad there's also a pattern tool for replicating objects ;)
18:46.02 pier an hard copy of them
18:46.23 pier that not hinerit the properties of the father
18:46.52 brlcad ahh ;)
18:47.30 pier I mean the pencil that is not sharpened :)
18:48.18 pier page 19 VOL III
18:48.57 pier what is the way?
18:49.12 pier to replicate a comb?
19:19.28 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: prevent a segfault if caller provides a null mode to db_open()
19:20.06 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: init mat to NULL before checking if it's null.
19:21.50 brlcad there is no pencil on page 19 of vol III
19:22.01 brlcad it's a helicopter
19:22.12 brlcad maybe you mean vol IV
19:22.25 brlcad er, II
19:23.39 pier last but fourth line
19:23.53 brlcad ahh
19:24.06 pier :)
19:25.03 pier brlcad: does p 0 180 0 work with matrix rotation?
19:25.23 pier for a 180 deg rot round Y axes
19:25.58 brlcad p is relative adjustments for whatever edit operation is selected
19:26.27 brlcad so that would rotate 180 degrees about the Y axis
19:26.48 pier it works with shapes but returns an error with matrix rotation
19:26.57 brlcad if you wanted to rotate, translate, or scale absolute instead of relatively, you'd use the rot, tra, and sca commands instead
19:27.31 pier without checking the proper box in the mged graph win
19:28.45 pier gas! it worked
19:29.58 ``Erik O.o
19:30.20 brlcad heh
19:30.28 pier ? breaks the winds?
19:30.41 brlcad pier: rot and orot commands for relative/absolute for objects
19:31.00 pier thanks a lot for the help
19:31.02 brlcad p is for editing parameters to pritives, my bad ;)
19:32.02 brlcad pier: do you understand the difference between figure 10 and figure 11?
19:32.23 pier mmmh oral test..
19:32.24 brlcad usually you just use the method in figure 11
19:34.02 pier referencing allows to make any altering to the prototype to be immediately transferred to the referred objects
19:34.26 brlcad it's not that it's "transferred", it's that they are actually all referring to the same thing
19:35.00 brlcad just how you respond to both "pier" and "Pierpaolo" .. they are both references to the "real you"
19:35.15 pier a matrix would represent just the coordinates of the referred new objects along with the rotations
19:35.27 brlcad so if the "real you" changes, so do "pier" and "Pierpaolo"
19:35.33 pier ok ok
19:36.06 brlcad right, the matrix just orients the object in space
19:37.36 pier that was what I meant about sharpening just one pencil (the original) and getting the other imediately sharpened... they are just images of the same real object (with material properties?)
19:38.10 brlcad right
19:38.17 brlcad cept not necessarily with material properties
19:38.23 pier ok
19:38.29 brlcad that depends where you've applied material properties
19:38.41 pier can be changed?
19:38.42 brlcad if your template is a region with material propertis, then yes, it'll inherit them
19:38.48 pier ok
19:38.59 brlcad if it's just a generic object with no properties, then there's nothing to inherint
19:39.07 pier whereas a comb has no mat prop
19:39.44 brlcad intrinsically, it's just a grouping
19:39.57 brlcad though the edit will let you apply shader parameters
19:40.05 brlcad s/edit/editor/
19:40.16 brlcad grr
19:40.18 brlcad ibot shut up
19:40.19 ibot yes, Master brlcad
19:41.06 pier brlcad: you are a very good teacher if you are able to teach me these things (rather complicated things)
19:41.31 clock_ brlcad: is it AI or what that it can understand English language and even correct it?
19:42.24 brlcad clock_: neither
19:42.51 brlcad s/blah1/blah2/ means "substitute the blah1 in what I just said with blah2"
19:43.38 brlcad ibot is just recognizing the s///, then finding a match in my previous line, then blabbing
19:43.46 brlcad relatively new feature, not fond of it really
19:44.10 pier is there a project for translating the manual in other languages?
19:44.30 brlcad there is not, though there have been one or two very interested
19:44.54 brlcad i'd like to get them converted from their current form to docbook sometime
19:45.03 brlcad then get translations of the docbook for various languages
19:45.36 brlcad right now it's pdf and msword (yes, the original is actually msword, bleh)
19:45.49 brlcad (wasn't me!) ;)
19:46.06 pier ok so if any help is needed I would like to volunteer
19:46.16 brlcad excellent
19:46.20 pier tex would be fine?
19:46.22 brlcad do you know docbook? :)
19:46.34 brlcad or willing to learn it
19:46.42 pier I'll have to have a look round the web
19:46.43 brlcad tex would be a distant second preference
19:47.05 pier heard about it quite a lot recently
19:47.06 brlcad docbook has a much better separation of content and style
19:47.38 brlcad it's easier to deal with docbook when you see examples
19:48.04 brlcad e.g. if you check out the gforge sources on gforge.org, their documentation is in docbook form
19:48.45 brlcad the linuxdoc is/was primarily docbook as their main format as well for all linux documentation (manpages, howtos, faqs, etc)
19:49.14 pier ok
19:49.41 brlcad could maybe even start with something more simple like converting one of the manpages to docbook (like rt's)
19:49.52 pier does Norman Walsh happen to be the one of the tcl-tk book?
19:50.50 pier none it was Welsh
19:51.02 brlcad ah, yeah
19:51.03 pier ok I'll have a go with it
19:51.04 brlcad Dan Welsh
19:51.36 pier rt man page?
19:53.36 brlcad there are manpages for most of the commands
19:53.41 brlcad man rt
19:53.49 brlcad if you've set up your system MANPATH
19:53.55 brlcad if not, try "brlman rt"
19:54.43 pier man rt work fine
19:54.47 pier works
19:56.02 brlcad pier: here's a starter
19:56.03 brlcad http://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/crash-course/
19:57.31 pier great
19:59.58 brlcad here's a decent example of a rather extensive xml document for the gforge project: http://gforge.org/plugins/scmcvs/cvsweb.php/gforge/docs/docbook/docbook/?cvsroot=gforge
20:00.10 brlcad xml docbook document, that is
20:00.34 brlcad (select the rev number, e.g. 1.1, not the file name)
20:03.32 pier damit... last week I missed a refresher course at school about XML... I didn't think it could come in handy
20:04.29 joevalleyfield they rarely teach docbook (document) style XML, they usually teach it for data exchange
20:04.56 joevalleyfield so chances are what you missed isn't too applicable
20:05.20 pier ok
20:05.48 pier looks like html
20:05.52 pier a bit
20:06.18 joevalleyfield it's really similar to xhtml2, if that's out yet
20:07.13 joevalleyfield you tend to mark up nested groupings if logically related material
20:07.39 joevalleyfield s/if/of/
20:13.56 brlcad joevalleyfield: is that what you really meant? :)
20:17.14 ``Erik windows sucks and blows, both in most unpleaseant ways
20:19.32 pier amazing: Even if you have never used either DocBook or other markup languages (like LinuxDoc) before, you should be able to become proficient in it just by reading through this guide
20:19.53 joevalleyfield you told it to shutup ;)
20:35.02 pier so the path would be: 1)getting aquainted with docbook 2) pouring the translated text in the new form namefile.docbook
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20:43.50 pier Is docbook-sgml the packege needed for this purpose?
20:45.40 pier ver 4.4
20:50.59 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: heh, wrong line and bad syntax.. never mind
20:53.58 brlcad pier: yes and sure
20:54.12 brlcad though i'd give the docbook-xml a stab first
20:54.55 pier ok then I'll download it too
20:55.02 brlcad that way the file will actually render and work with existing xml tools too, even most browsers support some rudimentary xml markup
20:55.48 pier ok then
21:05.06 pier downloaded dsssl version too.... haven't the slightest idea what that is but what the hell...
21:05.59 pier night to everybody and thanks for the help... hope to be able to return sooner or later the kind help
21:07.24 joevalleyfield dsssl is predecessor to xsl
21:07.32 joevalleyfield its scheme based
21:07.41 joevalleyfield if you're into (((( instead of <<<
21:08.33 pier thank you very much joe (yet it's all greek to me :) )
21:09.15 pier got to get down with the tutorial first
21:09.21 joevalleyfield glad you're looking at it pier
21:10.22 brlcad working on docs is generally pretty high visibility stuff, and very appreciated..
21:11.15 brlcad I forget the exact numbers, but the last time I processed the web logs it was in the high thousands, like 10 or 20k downloads of the tutorials, etc
21:11.29 brlcad and that was many many months ago now
21:12.13 pier Yes I agree... it's the best way to spread out a good job
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21:14.10 pier work
21:15.51 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
21:19.10 ``Erik maybe I should look into dsssl o.O
21:19.27 joevalleyfield are you a lisp lover, eric???
21:19.30 joevalleyfield don't do it
21:19.36 ``Erik yeah, actually, of the scheme variety
21:19.37 ``Erik heh
21:20.04 ``Erik *woops* :)
21:20.20 joevalleyfield :)
21:20.36 ``Erik (also, if you look at the freebsd ports, my name is attached to like half of the scheme related ones)
21:20.51 joevalleyfield doesn't scheme natively have continuations?
21:21.00 ``Erik yes
21:21.13 ``Erik first order
21:21.27 ``Erik call-with-current-continuation is the spec name, but most impl's have call/cc as a shortcut
21:22.27 ``Erik (guile is one of the very few that don't have the shortcut)
21:24.42 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: remove dead init line, dbi_eof is set to something else two lines after.
21:24.44 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on
21:24.48 brlcad <PROTECTED>
21:24.49 brlcad oop
21:26.19 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
21:26.48 brlcad ``Erik: if you need mods for 7.6.6 building in ports, lemme know and they can get into 7.6.8
21:27.01 brlcad e.g. the iwidgets test
21:27.02 ``Erik I've already commited them
21:27.05 brlcad it won't be the stuff on head
21:27.14 brlcad ah, okay, i'll try to find them
21:27.42 brlcad or you can commit them to the rel-7-6-branch too
21:28.00 ``Erik just a second...
21:29.17 ``Erik configure.ac has some tests and src/liboptical/Makefile.am has that hack we discussed that breaks aix supposedly
21:30.28 ``Erik I believe that's it
21:30.35 ``Erik I can mfc them if you want
21:31.23 ``Erik I'm not convinced that the C will allow an outisde itcl/itck/iwidget impl yet
21:31.51 ``Erik (that's what I was looking into when justin rebooted the minicluster)
21:31.59 ``Erik and fuck my arm hurts
21:37.20 ``Erik grrrrrr, I think justin justin just rebooted it again
21:38.05 ``Erik mv reboot reboot.orig ; echo "#!/bin/sh\necho Don't do that" > reboot
21:38.07 ``Erik o.O
21:44.46 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
21:54.25 ``Erik or mebbe it crashed, heh
22:11.53 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: correctly free our allocated resources in db5_fwrite_ident() even on fatal error by stashing the result.
22:19.45 joevalleyfield diff -I is my new best friend
22:20.28 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:20.51 brlcad ``Erik: nah, he keeps causing the crash
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22:23.13 brlcad joevalleyfield: heh
22:26.08 PrezKennedy digg.com is turning into a vigilante website
22:26.22 PrezKennedy "omg letz haxxor or DDNS anyone who does something wrong online"
22:26.29 PrezKennedy *DDOS
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22:43.35 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: clean up db_create()'s logic considerably. annoyingly, the version check for writing out the ident can't go away since db_fwrite_ident() has no means to determine the version (need some wrapper interface)
22:45.59 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: ws
22:52.36 joevalleyfield whoa
23:02.29 ``Erik get a private room, geez
23:54.08 ``Erik heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060112

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01:34.34 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to.
01:40.14 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience
01:40.17 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions.
04:37.37 pra5ad justin's next project
04:37.40 pra5ad http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188
04:56.19 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data
05:40.18 ``Erik http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny
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01:34.34 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to.
01:40.14 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience
01:40.17 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions.
04:37.37 pra5ad justin's next project
04:37.40 pra5ad http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188
04:56.19 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data
05:40.18 ``Erik http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny
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15:30.41 IngMan Hi when get documentation about nirt
15:32.05 brlcad when?
15:32.11 brlcad whenever you want :)
15:32.20 brlcad man nirt
15:33.37 IngMan more documentation, that man(mas documentacion que no sea man)
15:40.07 brlcad ah, que no sea man.. hmmmm
15:40.28 brlcad quiza..
15:41.52 IngMan exacto
15:46.22 brlcad haven't found anything, i'll have to ask around pero creo que no
15:46.37 brlcad tienes alguna pregunta sobre como usarlo?
15:46.59 brlcad can be used both interactively and non-interactively
15:47.49 clock_ brlcad: is is spanish?
15:48.38 CIA-12 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-stl.c: The -i option doesn't take an argument.
15:48.53 IngMan Eres tu morrison
15:50.49 brlcad si
15:51.33 IngMan Te acuerdas que te conte que estoy haciendo un manual en español
15:52.44 IngMan queria hablar de como acotar o tener informacion del modelo que estas haciendo, y creo que nirt hace eso
15:53.00 brlcad por supuesto
15:53.51 IngMan que se puede decir de nirt
15:54.09 IngMan la verdad aun no entiendo muy bien como funciona
15:54.15 brlcad perate..
15:56.09 IngMan hoy estoy medio dormido si te dista cuenta, when???? por decir donde
16:06.43 brlcad IngMan: tengo que irme pero ahorita quiero seguir esa conversacion
16:07.28 brlcad er, s/pero ahorita/ahorita, pero../
16:07.53 IngMan cuanto es ahorarita
16:08.00 brlcad ya ;)
16:08.43 brlcad regreso en como una hora y algo
16:08.48 IngMan no tengo mucho tiempo
16:09.23 brlcad esta bien, podemos hablar luego? mañana?
16:09.40 IngMan por eso cuando puedes
16:09.46 brlcad ok
16:11.15 IngMan dentro de cuanto puedes
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01:34.34 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to.
01:40.14 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure
01:40.15 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience
01:40.17 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions.
04:37.37 pra5ad justin's next project
04:37.40 pra5ad http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188
04:56.19 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data
05:40.18 ``Erik http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny
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15:30.41 IngMan Hi when get documentation about nirt
15:32.05 brlcad when?
15:32.11 brlcad whenever you want :)
15:32.20 brlcad man nirt
15:33.37 IngMan more documentation, that man(mas documentacion que no sea man)
15:40.07 brlcad ah, que no sea man.. hmmmm
15:40.28 brlcad quiza..
15:41.52 IngMan exacto
15:46.22 brlcad haven't found anything, i'll have to ask around pero creo que no
15:46.37 brlcad tienes alguna pregunta sobre como usarlo?
15:46.59 brlcad can be used both interactively and non-interactively
15:47.49 clock_ brlcad: is is spanish?
15:48.38 CIA-12 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-stl.c: The -i option doesn't take an argument.
15:48.53 IngMan Eres tu morrison
15:50.49 brlcad si
15:51.33 IngMan Te acuerdas que te conte que estoy haciendo un manual en español
15:52.44 IngMan queria hablar de como acotar o tener informacion del modelo que estas haciendo, y creo que nirt hace eso
15:53.00 brlcad por supuesto
15:53.51 IngMan que se puede decir de nirt
15:54.09 IngMan la verdad aun no entiendo muy bien como funciona
15:54.15 brlcad perate..
15:56.09 IngMan hoy estoy medio dormido si te dista cuenta, when???? por decir donde
16:06.43 brlcad IngMan: tengo que irme pero ahorita quiero seguir esa conversacion
16:07.28 brlcad er, s/pero ahorita/ahorita, pero../
16:07.53 IngMan cuanto es ahorarita
16:08.00 brlcad ya ;)
16:08.43 brlcad regreso en como una hora y algo
16:08.48 IngMan no tengo mucho tiempo
16:09.23 brlcad esta bien, podemos hablar luego? mañana?
16:09.40 IngMan por eso cuando puedes
16:09.46 brlcad ok
16:11.15 IngMan dentro de cuanto puedes
18:15.18 *** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx)
18:42.55 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
18:47.52 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
19:03.30 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
19:03.42 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
19:05.01 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
21:02.29 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (5 files): apply blt2.4z-patch-2
21:03.54 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the ability to toggle display of primitive labels.
21:16.44 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-95-209.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:17.58 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
21:29.34 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:08.29 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
22:36.41 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
22:59.49 *** join/#brlcad _AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
23:04.00 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
23:27.02 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
23:32.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/ (Makefile.am generic/Makefile.am unix/Makefile.am): move the AM_CPPFLAGS up to the top
23:34.07 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltConfig.h: just make blt use brl-cad's common.h for config.h results
23:36.02 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: shouldn't need module, don't link the tk sources
23:37.13 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: shouldn't need module or static for this library, move CPPHEADERS to the top, don't install the blt config.h files, install the rest of the headers
23:42.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
23:42.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: fix AND improve the adrt checks. some variables had changed (making them wrong)
23:42.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: for testing sdl/python; they're now fixed. add an --enable-adrt option that is
23:42.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: coupled to the --with-sdl and --with-python options including all the additional
23:42.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: checks for making sure all the various combinations make sense or output
23:42.24 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: messages or abort. before doing any BC_RETRY_CONFIGURE, output a message as to
23:42.26 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: why we are retrying. sdl test only needs to check for sdl-config if sdl is
23:46.51 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:47.04 tegtmeye justin wake up
23:59.59 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-110-14.balt.east.verizon.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060113

00:03.42 justin_ hey
00:04.44 tegtmeye I have it!!!
00:04.56 tegtmeye With equations
00:05.30 justin_ oh? :)
00:05.37 justin_ msg me
00:05.38 pra5ad o.0?
00:05.48 tegtmeye We are both right
00:05.54 tegtmeye I'm on the we client
00:05.58 tegtmeye web
00:06.26 justin_ did you see that?
00:06.35 tegtmeye o
00:06.37 tegtmeye no
00:06.41 justin_ ah, k
00:06.52 justin_ well, if you just wanna wait until you get home, that's cool
00:07.19 tegtmeye someplace better to talk?
00:07.48 justin_ try #lair
00:09.23 justin_ ?
00:09.43 tegtmeye what would be a irc client that would be installed on irc besides bitchx?
00:11.01 justin_ huh?
00:11.11 justin_ installed on what?
00:11.18 justin_ do you want a shell on my box?
00:11.19 tegtmeye red hat
00:11.23 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
00:11.31 tegtmeye sure
00:11.31 justin_ you can't irc from work cmoputers
00:11.51 justin_ what do you want your user to be
00:12.02 tegtmeye same as here
00:12.28 justin_ tegtmeye or tegtmeyer?
00:12.41 tegtmeye tegtmeye
00:14.14 justin_ ok
00:14.17 justin_ ssh js.cx
00:14.46 tegtmeye ps?
00:14.58 justin_ hit enter
00:15.07 tegtmeye nope
00:15.40 justin_ try 123
00:15.51 tegtmeye k
00:15.57 justin_ k, change it
00:16.25 tegtmeye ok
00:16.33 justin_ k
00:16.35 justin_ BitchX is there
00:16.42 tegtmeye got it
00:16.48 justin_ BitchX adams.freenode.net or something
00:18.07 tegtmeye snore...
00:18.11 justin_ heh
00:18.25 tegtmeye processing...processing...
00:19.09 tegtmeye must be that wireless:)
00:19.22 justin_ heh
00:19.34 justin_ or that I'm not running indent
00:19.36 justin_ err identd
00:20.02 justin_ does it say you're connecting to a freenode networking?
00:20.09 justin_ or atleast established a connection?
00:20.20 tegtmeye yea, stuck after mode change
00:20.31 justin_ k, give it another minute
00:20.43 tegtmeye dude, I'll just hop on from home
00:20.48 tegtmeye give me an hour
00:20.49 justin_ ok
00:20.51 justin_ no prob
00:21.02 justin_ draw a digram
00:21.08 tegtmeye try the drill thing, it is part of the solution
00:21.12 justin_ k
00:21.33 tegtmeye later
00:32.12 ``Erik *yawn*
01:26.55 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:26.58 justin_ hey
01:27.05 justin_ I *just* finished the tests
01:27.43 tegtmeye <- plugs in Pbook...
01:27.48 tegtmeye so?
01:27.58 tegtmeye good news or bad
01:28.26 justin_ check your msgs
01:28.40 tegtmeye mmm 2 day old Olive Tree...
01:29.21 justin_ well?
01:29.39 tegtmeye give me a min, still new to Bitchx...
01:29.51 justin_ it's ... irc :)
02:05.35 ``Erik mike: read up on "/win new" and "/win level", they're... handy... I can trim and gives you my .ircrc if you want o.O
02:05.43 ``Erik s/gives/give/
02:06.21 *** join/#brlcad Matt_2_ (n=mkennedy@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:06.40 ``Erik annoying noisy sed bots, w00t.
02:07.02 brlcad yeah, relatively new feature that tim must have added
02:07.06 brlcad didn't used to do that
02:07.45 ``Erik I assume it's a scratch written bot, not based off of eggie or something?
02:08.00 ``Erik (which is the only tcl i'd ever touched before being exposed to brlcad o.O)
02:09.18 brlcad ~ibot
02:09.19 ibot well, ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.
02:09.46 brlcad Guu: guu
02:09.47 Guu guu is hip and cool, baffuuuuuu
02:09.49 Matt_2_ now i can enjoy this conversation in black AND white
02:10.00 brlcad guu: identify
02:10.01 Guu brlcad: (identify <name> <password>) -- Identifies the user as <name>. This command (and all other commands that include a password) must be sent to the bot privately, not in a channel.
02:10.05 brlcad blah
02:10.14 brlcad guu: version
02:10.19 Guu brlcad: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.80.0pre2. The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
02:10.37 ``Erik both of mine are eggies, heh
02:10.39 brlcad so perl and python represent
02:10.46 ``Erik I've seen a couple scheme bots that look... quite enticing
02:10.58 ``Erik and you know me, I'm an ankle grabbing ho for anything scheme
02:11.03 brlcad yep
02:11.11 PrezKennedy incredible... the national weather service has a dense fog advisory
02:11.32 brlcad supybot has some incredibly interesting features, but a horrid user/auth/permissions system
02:12.24 brlcad bloot is surprisingly practical and instantly useful -- ibot in particular as her database is pretty massive having been around for years
02:12.27 ``Erik heh, I'm still running old (1.3) eggies
02:17.32 ``Erik ok, sean, spanglish question... 'mi hermano' means "my friend" in a masculine context... what would you call a chica?
02:20.38 brlcad mi hermano literally means "my brother"
02:21.10 ``Erik ahhhh
02:21.18 ``Erik so the correlary would be "my sister"?
02:21.18 brlcad which in vernacular can be like "my bro" or "my homie" or "my buddy" etc
02:21.31 ``Erik O.o or is that a colloquial difference?
02:21.32 brlcad yeah
02:21.39 brlcad it is very much
02:22.00 ``Erik aight, thnx
02:22.05 brlcad just as colloquial as calling someone your bro is in english
02:22.28 ``Erik maybe I should be learning spanglish instead of nippongo
02:22.56 brlcad ~translate en es maybe I should be learning spanglish instead of nippongo
02:23.15 brlcad heh, wow -- that's actually not that bad
02:23.31 ``Erik heh
02:23.44 PrezKennedy ~translate es en que?
02:23.58 brlcad heh
02:24.12 ``Erik !translate taco burrito supreme grande spaghetti
02:24.16 ``Erik doh
02:24.24 ``Erik used to "bang" commands on bots
02:24.25 ``Erik :)
02:24.38 brlcad that would be guu, and she don't have the translate module right now
02:24.39 ``Erik mmm, beavis&butthead
02:25.05 brlcad !who's your daddy?
02:25.19 brlcad or.. someone changed the prefix char
02:25.20 PrezKennedy ~translate es en fannybandit
02:25.36 PrezKennedy guess my days of learning spanish from family guy are over
02:29.50 PrezKennedy is it good?
02:41.03 ``Erik sena, your box is now debian, with everything running and ok (but httpd turned off), and the server is now all fbsd, with most of the functionality in place, duder
02:50.15 ``Erik heh, raiding?
02:52.28 brlcad new on walkabout
02:52.35 brlcad er, s/new/just/
02:53.52 ``Erik of course you know me and justin... I'm assuming you recognized alexis
02:54.14 ``Erik burger and andrew are in there
02:54.25 ``Erik channel's a bit skinny right now
02:55.12 brlcad jeesh, i can't type tonight
02:55.34 ``Erik heh
03:06.37 pra5ad miyazaki on tmc again
04:58.20 Maloeran Hi Sean, so you found the hiding place of Justin, Erik and I :), feel free to join the eternal debates about the future of graphical rendering
04:59.14 learner heh, not much of a hiding place if I find it just wandering around efnet ;)
05:01.26 Maloeran Eheh, we have been meeting there for the last few years, and Efnet's #opengl before then
05:02.03 Maloeran freenode's #opengl is much more alive, much more clueless too
05:08.16 Maloeran *nods* Burga is an expert at that too
05:08.39 ``Erik burgers a d3d whoring winiot
05:09.01 ``Erik I actually helped someone yesterday, heh
05:09.25 ``Erik glColor3ui, geez, some people just make things unnecessarily hard on themselves
05:12.11 pra5ad hmm?
05:12.23 pra5ad whats wrong with 3ui?
05:18.12 Maloeran Someone was passing 1.0f as parameter and wondering why everything was "black"
05:18.38 pra5ad ah hehe
05:24.15 pra5ad naussica and laputa subbed on right now
07:30.20 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
07:30.43 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-95-209.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:39.48 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:04.27 *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
13:24.20 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=d9850efc@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:34.26 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=d9850efc@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:10.53 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify the packTree method to ignore malformed lines. Add call to _refresh_tree to _apply_edit and _reset_edit
15:13.07 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Add code to possibly call the (-shaderChangedCallback) from the changedShader method.
15:16.09 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.3
16:43.00 *** join/#brlcad _AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
17:41.27 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-61-249.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:12.49 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
18:18.14 *** join/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net)
18:18.23 igotbsd hi everyone
18:21.03 igotbsd just installed brlcad on fbsd5.4-stable, but when i try to run mged from GUI i get this error Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display "unix:0". apparently that's not the right value for the env. variable or is it? any help on this...
18:23.00 joevalleyfield you might try the x display manager rather than the ogl one
18:23.50 joevalleyfield mged -c will give you a choice but you'll sacrifice some of the gui
18:24.06 joevalleyfield not sure how to choose display manager in non-classic mode
18:25.00 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add better support for toggling display of primitive labels when Archer is embedded.
18:28.04 *** part/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net)
18:30.59 ``Erik heh
18:31.06 ``Erik gantt chart chunk is refusing to work
18:31.30 joevalleyfield if that was my name, i'd go on strike too!
18:34.47 *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-088.dialin.iskon.hr)
19:09.32 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
19:21.27 brlcad heh
19:45.27 pier brlcad....
19:46.11 pier had a look at the docbook crash course
20:11.18 brlcad pier: excellent
20:11.19 brlcad thoughts?
20:11.29 pier what then?
20:11.40 pier pick a man page and..
20:11.47 brlcad sounds like something you think you could work on?
20:11.56 brlcad yeah
20:12.01 brlcad maybe brlcad.1
20:12.03 pier you talked about rt man page
20:13.31 brlcad only because it's one of the most frequently requested
20:13.43 brlcad you could really pick any of them.. there are lots :)
20:13.44 pier ok
20:14.40 pier once I have translated the content is there a template I am supposed to follow?
20:16.10 pier I mean.. in order to produce a dockbook document?
20:17.06 brlcad not really
20:17.58 brlcad have to consider how languages come into play across the entire package for making it easy to generate a set of documentation
20:18.20 brlcad in docbook lingo, probably a collection of book, with several books being collections of articles
20:18.38 brlcad i'd imagine the manpage is an article, though there might be better approaches
20:20.01 pier is there a parallel project for multi lang where contributors can send files?
20:20.11 brlcad there is probably an overarching organization that will be needed if only to maintain the files, e.g. whether having the files spread out across the source tree is better than having them all inside of doc/
20:21.00 brlcad and how to manage the different languages .. one dir per language at a high level? no dirs and just designate with extensions? one dir per dir with translations?
20:21.29 pier :)
20:22.08 pier why worrying about dirs and so on at this stage?
20:24.10 pier perhaps a good point would be translating th group of 4 tomes and make them available through the BRLCAD site
20:24.35 pier for a starter....
20:26.18 pier did I say rubbish?
20:26.36 brlcad not worrying, just thinking aloud about long term
20:28.54 pier translating the manuals wouldn't take long... there's already a template to spoil and to take advatage of
20:28.56 brlcad pier: oh good idea
20:29.04 brlcad how about starting with volume I
20:29.06 brlcad it's short
20:29.16 pier right away
20:29.17 brlcad and already somewhat htmlified
20:29.26 pier ;)
20:30.05 joevalleyfield are man pages supposed to be <RefEntry/>s ?
20:31.04 brlcad pier: http://brlcad.org/overview.html is volume I
20:31.09 brlcad joevalleyfield: are they?
20:31.20 joevalleyfield don't know about in the newest dtds
20:31.29 brlcad oh, this looks useful: http://sourceforge.net/projects/man2docbook/
20:32.52 brlcad and http://docbook2x.sourceforge.net/
20:32.55 brlcad for the reverse
20:33.04 joevalleyfield sweet
20:35.06 pier There are no file packages defined for this project.
20:36.56 brlcad yeah.. looks like they never got past the requirements stage
20:37.16 brlcad http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/man2docbook/doc/req.txt?rev=1.1&view=auto
20:38.07 brlcad here's another http://www.xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1749
20:38.38 brlcad http://www.catb.org/~esr/doclifter/
20:38.38 joevalleyfield and that one is a little more than vapor
20:41.26 pier man -> docbook -> polishing ;) -> that's it
20:43.01 brlcad heh, i remember when ESR ran this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/doclifter/problems.html
20:43.28 brlcad now I see it's all part of "project paradise"
20:44.40 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-93-118.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:44.43 joevalleyfield b address is blocked :-D
20:46.38 pier so brlcad... I'll start asap to translate vol 1
20:47.06 brlcad pier: sounds great, look forward to seeing it
20:47.16 pier where is the file to be sent
20:47.22 brlcad btw, what languages do you know? :)
20:49.07 pier ....Italiam :(
20:49.10 pier n
20:49.16 brlcad i'd start by sending the file in as a patch, we can work on simplifying that part later
20:49.20 brlcad ah, excellent
20:50.10 pier and some dialect from my own town which is quite incomprehensible :)
20:50.21 pier so useless
20:51.36 brlcad il mio amico sara' eccitato
20:51.51 pier ?
20:52.07 pier google translator?
20:52.18 brlcad heh, no
20:52.27 pier in che senso?
20:52.32 brlcad just my bad italian
20:52.34 pier :)
20:53.02 brlcad il mio amico sarebbe contento di vederti
20:53.12 brlcad er, to see it
20:53.21 pier I mean there is always a man's best friend and it is advisable not to be eccitato at work
20:53.30 pier :)
20:53.34 brlcad hehe, pues contento :)
20:53.42 brlcad felice
20:53.45 pier congratulations!
20:53.53 brlcad no eccitato ;)
20:54.00 pier now it is better ;)
20:54.18 brlcad you never know.. might really be that excited ;)
20:54.30 brlcad to have the docs in italian
20:55.26 pier ok then... I'll try and do my best
20:56.26 brlcad no worries, even the english versions always need more work ;)
20:57.23 pier it could be a good starting point in spreading such a great program
20:57.41 brlcad i agree
20:58.51 pier it would be a dirac-delta in the steepenig growing path
21:03.54 *** join/#brlcad cad002 (n=55e2c6d5@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:06.01 pier brlcad hope the DOMS has gone and wish a great weekend to everybody (and great workouts too )
21:14.59 *** join/#brlcad cad002 (n=55e2c6d5@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:15.52 brlcad pier: DOMS?
21:16.05 brlcad ~doms
21:16.33 brlcad same to you, great weekend
21:17.10 pier http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/01_99/muscle.htm
21:17.14 pier buonanotte
21:19.32 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
21:20.24 brlcad hah
21:21.32 brlcad that's a good link for pra5ad
21:22.40 clock_ does pra5ad have a lot of muscles?
21:23.05 clock_ I got brutal Document Object Model System from snowboarding :)
21:23.08 brlcad heh
21:25.54 clock_ brlcad: today is Friday 13. Today's sunset was interesting - we took a picture: ronja.twibright.com/fri13.jpg
21:26.12 brlcad ooh, didn't realize that
21:26.23 brlcad neat picture
21:26.56 clock_ brlcad: do you know the blair witch project?
21:27.02 brlcad yep
21:27.08 brlcad i've been in that park
21:27.10 brlcad it's nice ;)
21:28.36 brlcad in fact, I just biked through it on new years eve during my ride, altough not into the park itself, just down the highway that passes
21:29.43 archivist bikes need engines
21:30.05 brlcad hehe
21:30.54 clock_ brlcad: were there any stick figures?
21:31.11 clock_ brlcad: what was in the house at the end of the movie?
21:31.30 clock_ brlcad: the people were just staring there at something and it ended.
21:31.32 brlcad i actually still haven't seen the movie, just know a bit about it
21:31.52 clock_ brlcad: it wasn't conclusive. All it could have been a joke of the locals that didn't like the visitors
21:32.20 brlcad heh, given the area, that is highly possible ;)
23:05.45 pra5ad its bsg friday
23:05.51 pra5ad it's*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060114

00:08.05 brlcad that it is
00:13.38 ``Erik weee, my fat caliper is here
00:18.55 ``Erik I see lee is playing with bug priorities o.O
00:34.21 brlcad yeah, he's been on a frenzy
00:34.50 brlcad hopefully will settle down soon, most do after their first couple times through ;)
00:43.28 ``Erik heh
00:43.46 ``Erik d'no why he's upmodding pedros thing
00:43.49 ``Erik it's terribly minor
00:53.18 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
00:57.30 brlcad heh didn't know you were the maintainer now
01:00.46 brlcad er, s/heh/he/
01:11.40 ``Erik for a while
01:11.55 ``Erik pedro did the first one, then handed it off to me
01:12.48 ``Erik apr 9, 05
01:13.00 brlcad yeah, i told lee a hint of the details and that that particular issue is mostly taken care of already
01:13.17 ``Erik the optimization thing is trivial
01:13.33 ``Erik the itcl/itk thing, libbu wigs out on having radically different paths
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01:37.42 ``Erik about 20% :-/ I'm a damn fatass
02:30.26 brlcad tegtmeye: almost finished!
02:31.34 brlcad ``Erik: you gonna bring them calipers in? :)
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02:53.01 ``Erik ...
02:53.03 ``Erik heh
02:53.06 ``Erik I spoze I could
02:53.11 ``Erik if you wash 'em after you use 'em o.
02:53.12 ``Erik O
02:54.04 brlcad heh, nah, just wondering :)
02:54.20 brlcad <PROTECTED>
02:56.28 ``Erik heh
02:56.31 ``Erik lemme guess
02:56.35 ``Erik you, jason, and prasad
02:56.49 ``Erik the pussy faggots who go lift weights every fucking day
02:56.57 ``Erik O:-)
02:58.28 brlcad them's brave words, don't make me sic pra5ad on you
02:58.47 brlcad actually i had others in mind, but I probably don't want to really know
03:02.10 justin_ http://www.random-good-stuff.com/random_good_stuff/2005/10/guess_whom_i_sa.html
03:15.07 brlcad heh
03:22.40 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c:
03:22.40 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: use rt_gettrees_and_attrs instead of rt_gettrees_muves. the latter is a special
03:22.40 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: hook routine provided to muves (though why rt_gettrees_and_attrs wasn't
03:22.40 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: sufficient is a mystery to me). the abstraction does keep them ever so slightly
03:22.40 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: decoupled, but brl-cad code shouldn't be calling it even if rtshot was initially
03:22.41 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: perhaps an example for them.
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03:31.01 PKMOBILE pong
03:31.31 PKMOBILE wow my school email account has been reduced to a spam folder
03:31.33 PKMOBILE and i never use it
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04:00.18 justin_ <PROTECTED>
04:00.28 justin_ for this month
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04:25.58 pra5ad meh new bsg was ok
04:26.13 pra5ad i predicted the twist =(
04:38.33 Maloeran Hum, bsg?
04:42.29 justin_ battle star galactica
04:44.05 Maloeran Eh right, couldn't find what part of BrlCad "bsg" was refering to
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05:55.35 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060115

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00:38.19 pra5ad dammit skins
00:38.25 pra5ad dammit!
01:44.02 ``Erik go seahawks, seattle rules!
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03:48.53 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: meh
03:49.30 pra5ad sean
03:49.45 pra5ad where's that link to muscle pain
03:49.56 pra5ad someone posted here earlier
04:04.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (epsilon.m4 Makefile.am): (log message trimmed)
04:04.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: new m4/epsilon.m4 file. define macros BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT, BC_FLOAT_EPSILON, and
04:04.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: BC_DOUBLE_EPSILON. BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT attempts to compile and run the provided
04:04.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: program, saving the output in the provided variable. this makes for really
04:04.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: convenient tests that can output a calculated value (like computation
04:04.59 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: tolerances). The latter two respectively determine the floating point tolerance
04:05.01 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: epsilon value (i.e. smallest value such that 1.0 + value != 1.0). ANSI defines
04:10.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
04:10.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: run AC_C_BIGENDIAN without overriding the if-true and if-false so that the
04:10.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: regular WORDS_BIGENDIAN define is provided (added for blt, which relies on it).
04:10.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: test for size of int and long so that the result is logged for debugging. add
04:10.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: checks to determine the floating point epsilon values too.
04:11.20 brlcad pra5ad: take some advil, or an anti-inflammatory ;)
04:25.19 justin_ if I'm going to add cam stuff to brl-cad, should I start a new project?
04:27.41 brlcad given the way you prefer to code, probably -- go for it
04:28.17 justin_ it's either that or I'm going to make a little opengl app
04:40.22 brlcad i'd say strip and use what you like, actually might make it easier to pull the good parts in and let you develop unhindered
04:44.02 justin_ I'm actually thinking about an alternate plan now
04:44.36 justin_ since milling only a handful of specialized functions for boring and threading mainly, I'll just build those into a light weight opengl app
04:44.50 justin_ *there exist
04:45.06 justin_ brl-cad can be used for generating geometry
04:47.08 justin_ going through the hassle of modeling threads and then converting back is silly
04:47.36 justin_ easier to just say "I want an #8-32 thread 6mm deep"
04:47.59 justin_ and have it know to do a helical sweep
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08:30.45 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4:
08:30.45 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: add BC_COMPLIANT_FLOAT and BC_COMPLIANT_DOUBLE for determining whether the
08:30.45 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: floating point implementation seems to be IEEE 754 compliant. a handful of
08:30.45 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: tests are performed, namely checking that the epsilon tolerance matches the
08:30.46 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: defined power, making sure 0 == -0, and that -0 is actually implemented.
08:32.50 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add the new BC_COMPLIANT_FLOAT and BC_COMPLIANT_DOUBLE tests
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08:49.07 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix a problem where the an aborted autogen.sh would leave a configure.ac.backup and a subsequent failing autoconf would restore the wrong/old backup. only restore if we made the backup.
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17:08.02 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: their configure indicated they need socket, m, and nsl, so add them
17:14.54 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltTree.c: there seem to be two macro names missing for systems where sizeof_void_p is 8 (MAX_LIST_VALUES and START_LOGSIZE) so move their defines outside the #if so everyone gets it.
18:25.50 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add header checks for ieeefp.h, setjmp.h, and waitflags.h for the blt package, also add function checks for finite() and isfinit() from libm and a sizeof test for long long.
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18:33.57 pier Hi everybody
18:34.12 pier Is brlcad around?
18:45.10 brlcad he's always around
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19:43.20 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
19:43.20 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: give the server something to do with the geometry sent to it -- the client can
19:43.20 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: specify objects that should be shot at via MSG_ARGS packets. the server stashes
19:43.20 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: those object names and then shoots a ray at them when the client disconnects.
19:43.20 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: since external packets actually include their data lengths inside, we don't need
19:43.21 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: to send that object length as a string. server now correctly stashes the
19:43.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: geometry as in-memory objects.
20:36.40 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: ack, make sure the file pointer isn't null before trying to fclose it
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23:49.24 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: ws
23:51.04 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: missing curlies, so wrong message was getting printed on bad objects.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060116

02:00.42 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: stash the node into an argv for rt_gettree() so that it may be null-padded. helps debugging to see the boundary.
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03:16.03 paulMD-US Hey all... question for people.... is there an application within the brlcad package to generate traditional 2d CAD drawings from the 3d brlcad solid model?
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03:42.13 brlcad paulMD-US: yes and no
03:43.55 brlcad paulMD-US: for the edge-style drawings themselves, there is an application called rtedge that will render an edge-outline drawing
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03:45.00 paulMD-US ohk... But there's no application for like dimensioning that drawing or anything like that?
03:45.08 brlcad paulMD-US: what it doesn't do, and which we don't have a tool for yet is the means to draw annotations and dimensions onto that rendering (or the other raytracers for that matter) though this is being worked on as time permits
03:45.39 paulMD-US OK .. thanx for the info!
03:45.46 brlcad no problem
03:45.54 brlcad feel free to help us implement it ;)
03:46.23 paulMD-US yea... regretably I'm a better engineer than I am a programmer, hahaha
03:46.29 brlcad :)
03:47.06 brlcad there is likely going to be an annotation tool that will allow one to overlay annotations and dimensions onto a raytrace fairly soon (next few months)
03:47.50 brlcad the longer-term work is going into adding full support for stashing annotations and overlays into the geometry file themselves as geometric objects akin to brl-cad's sketches
03:48.28 brlcad everything's mostly in place for it already, it's just a limitation of time/resources and a few other higher-priority items
03:56.02 justin_ mmm engineering
04:14.34 pra5ad body implants w/ antennas
04:14.43 pra5ad i smell a bad csi ep
04:28.50 justin_ heh
04:29.04 justin_ turns out sitting in my chair I get 1200kB/sec, away from computer I get 250kB/sec
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08:09.38 brlcad woot!
08:34.50 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: quell a warning after repeat calls to rt_clean() since the rti_nsol_by_type wasn't getting set to zero when the memory was released. now it checks for the zero param to bu_free and clears the nsol value.
08:41.09 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: (log message trimmed)
08:41.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: now fully working, shooting rays at the remote geometry being held in-memory
08:41.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: only. finishing polish fixes that were needed include making the dbi_title
08:41.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: memory dynamic so librt doesn't try to free the static string, do the something
08:41.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: during the ciao instead of after the server shuts down, and MOST IMPORTANTLY ..
08:41.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: don't free the libpkg buf buffer that was used to set the external buffer, that
08:41.12 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: gets stashed into the directory pointer, that must not be free'd when we try to
08:44.27 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new g_transfer in-memory geometry example program
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15:06.21 rednoon hello
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17:56.35 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/.cvsignore: ignore g_transfer
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18:16.25 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: protect from loosing memory and from otherwise potentially freeing what we are about to dup by stashing the pointer then freeing it.
18:19.28 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_flags.c db_alloc.c): move the db_flags_internal() to its own db_flags.c file as it has very little to do with allocations. also, add another routine for getting the flags from a db5_raw_internal as well.
18:22.07 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_inmem.c db_lookup.c):
18:22.08 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: begin consolidating the in-memory-only database geometry support into one plcae.
18:22.08 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: move db_inmem() to its own db_inmem.c file, adding two new routines for
18:22.08 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: opening/creating in-memory databases via db_open_inmem() and db_create_inmem().
18:22.08 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: difference between the two being that create adds a _GLOBAL while open does not.
18:22.39 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: add db_flags.c and db_inmem.c
18:25.29 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: rename the dbip global to DBIP to distinguish it from local function dbip pointers. move the open/create/flag inmem routines into librt proper into the db_inmem.c and db_flags.c files.
18:27.09 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: switch it back to db_open_inmem() instead of db_create_inmem() since testing is done, either should work fine but for this application, we don't need the _GLOBAL.
18:28.16 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: add declarations for the new routines in db_inmem.c and db_flags.c, namely db_open_inmem, db_create_inmem, and db_flags_raw_internal
18:29.43 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: wrote the .g in-memory transfer example aplication
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20:10.09 IngMan HI
20:10.16 IngMan Hi Mos
20:10.30 IngMan Hi Morrison
20:16.30 brlcad hello IngMan
20:17.56 brlcad if you refer to me as "brlcad", it'll usually get my attention faster
20:20.24 IngMan k
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20:22.32 IngMan hi BrlCAD
20:23.30 brlcad heh
20:24.17 brlcad brlcad for me brl-cad or BRL-CAD for the package ;)
20:24.31 IngMan ok
20:24.55 IngMan te acuerdas que te comente de manual en español
20:25.04 brlcad si
20:25.26 brlcad speaking of such.. pier has just finished up volume I in italian..
20:25.32 brlcad looking at it now
20:28.13 IngMan i want talk about nirt command, but i dont know :(
20:28.48 brlcad ah, yes
20:29.49 brlcad there may likely be more information on nirt in the old printed documentation series from a long time ago
20:30.11 brlcad i'll see if I can find anything in them
20:30.23 brlcad (tomorrow, don't have them here with me now)
20:30.35 brlcad otherwise, que quierias saber?
20:31.18 IngMan cual es el objetivo del programa, no lo entiendo
20:31.32 brlcad basicamente..
20:32.33 brlcad como se dice.. nirt tira rayos hacia objectos
20:33.05 brlcad y te dice donde el rayo encuentra los objectos, que tan gruesos son
20:33.56 brlcad quiza el material del objecto se tiene caracteristicas materiales
20:34.12 IngMan ya
20:34.25 IngMan eso era lo que yo pensaba
20:34.39 ``Erik heh
20:34.51 brlcad se puede usar por dentro de mged o separado
20:35.40 IngMan listoç
20:35.45 brlcad por ejemplo, abra un archive .g en mged, haga un 'e algo', y 'nirt'
20:36.18 IngMan y de que otro comando seria bueno hablar
20:37.31 brlcad nirt tambien se llama "query_ray" en mged
20:38.01 brlcad bueno.. bastantes.. jmm
20:38.05 brlcad rtedge
20:38.07 brlcad rtwizard
20:38.17 brlcad rt
20:38.40 brlcad bastante mandatos de conversion
20:39.09 IngMan si de esos ya los tengo casi todos aunque los mas importantes son iges y stl NO???
20:43.55 IngMan de casualidad tienes un .density ya creado
20:46.23 brlcad depende en que te importa para decir quales son los mas importantes..
20:46.40 brlcad si, tengo un .density
20:47.13 IngMan me permites copiarlo
20:47.37 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/.density
20:49.00 IngMan thanks
20:52.40 IngMan what program GPL is good for FEA
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20:56.05 brlcad IngMan: for the actual FEA, no se .. for meshing and preparation support, Cubit is very nice
20:56.42 brlcad we're looking to collaborate with the Cubit folks sometime later this year
20:56.47 cad863 A BRL-CAD question
20:57.32 phcoder ls-dyna? you can download it, but I don't know if it's GPL
20:57.48 IngMan only GPL or FREE
20:57.52 IngMan ;)
20:58.28 IngMan impact or Calculix
20:59.17 cad863 My first time on IRC ... this is the preferred method of communicating with BRL-CAD devel. ... don't know proper manners for IRC.
20:59.23 IngMan are good
21:00.00 cad863 so how may I ask a question?
21:01.54 brlcad cad863: just ask it
21:01.56 IngMan simple, ask your question
21:02.29 brlcad cad863: and yes, this is a preferred method, though the developer mailing list works too
21:02.30 cad863 ah! there's someone. ok.
21:03.01 brlcad ask the saying goes:
21:03.02 brlcad ~ask
21:03.04 ibot Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a quesiton first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
21:03.04 cad863 I've found bits and pieces alluding to a rollout of BRL-CAD on MS Win last November users meeting
21:03.29 brlcad cad863: yes, finishing up that merge now actually
21:03.30 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
21:03.46 brlcad been working on it almost non-stop
21:03.49 cad863 when will it be available then?
21:04.15 brlcad there's an alpha/beta-release available now if you're interested
21:04.21 brlcad the first "real" release should be next month
21:04.29 brlcad i.e. 2-3 weeks
21:04.51 cad863 yes. primarily just need mged and VDECK ... with I suppose the associated RT
21:05.11 cad863 I need to create ".cg" input files for a thermal model
21:05.22 brlcad hm, not sure if it includes the vdeck converter, but it'd be easy to compile
21:05.25 cad863 have done so on Solaris, but they want me to do Win
21:06.09 brlcad rt and mged are definitely available
21:07.02 cad863 I D/L'd the source, so just need do-it-myself instruction, a pointer to the right doc, or someone to just ship it to me :)
21:07.32 brlcad like I said, I can give you a link to the nov. beta
21:07.39 cad863 great!
21:07.41 brlcad otherwise, it shouldn't be too hard to compile
21:08.13 brlcad there are vc7 project files in misc/win32-msvc7
21:08.31 brlcad and last I checked, the entire package builds under mingw
21:08.54 cad863 excellent. thanks much.
21:11.40 pier wanted to go on with the short mged tutorial but can't find the link
21:12.44 brlcad short mged tutorial?
21:13.14 pier yes .. the one with the mug example
21:13.27 brlcad ah
21:13.31 brlcad the old one :)
21:13.33 pier very short version of Vol. II
21:13.39 pier yes
21:13.44 brlcad that's in the doc/html directory
21:13.50 pier it helped me a lot
21:13.57 pier ok :)
21:14.33 brlcad either in doc/html in a source checkout or in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/html/
21:14.55 pier as soon as you think it is ok I'll get down with Vol.II
21:17.53 pier or would it be better to go straight o it?
21:18.48 brlcad pier: just read it .. looks great :)
21:22.34 pier thanks... but unfortunately it wasn,t me the author of the content
21:22.53 brlcad translating isn't easy or quick
21:23.14 pier a mere translator...
21:23.59 pier so do you think Vol II would be the proper task now?
21:24.31 pier rather than the abridged old version
21:24.49 brlcad yes and no
21:25.07 brlcad you started with the html for the translation, translating the pdf that way isn't going to be nearly as easy
21:25.40 brlcad and ultimately, it will need to be a structured format (for most all the docs) like docbook
21:25.55 brlcad which hasn't even happened for english yet
21:26.18 pier I see
21:27.08 brlcad i mean, it'd take weeks to recode all of vol II regardless
21:28.17 brlcad continue in the direction you were going -- the html doc tutorial
21:28.31 brlcad that should be easier, and it'll give more time to think about what to do about volume II
21:28.41 pier ok I'll see what can I make of it
21:30.56 pier I'll show up as soon as I get somethig done
21:31.08 brlcad sounds great
21:32.20 pier ok see u then
21:35.33 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.192.151)
22:17.37 *** join/#brlcad mcaruso (n=mcaruso@pool-141-156-220-116.res.east.verizon.net)
22:18.58 mcaruso can anyone point me to an example that shows how to transform an object to a position and orientation?
22:19.23 mcaruso within code
22:20.57 brlcad mcaruso: src/proc-db examples do this (most of them)
22:25.42 brlcad mcaruso: if you're using the libwdb routines for creating/positioning geometry, e.g. mk_addmember(), it returns a struct wmember* which contains the transformation matrix that will get written to disk
22:26.15 mcaruso brlcad: Im not using anything right now, Im looking to see how to get started
22:26.27 mcaruso brlcad: I am starting with an rt_i*
22:26.54 brlcad mcaruso: it depends on your purpose -- if you're just writing out geometry, the libwdb interface is considerably simplified
22:27.29 mcaruso brlcad: ok Im not writing out the geometry, its all in memory
22:27.36 brlcad rt_i includes a pointer to a wdb pointer, it's more a matter of whether you'll want that saved to disk
22:28.33 mcaruso brlcad: no need to save to disk
22:28.38 brlcad er, rt_i includes a pointer to the wdb structure (rti_wdbp member)
22:29.04 brlcad k, then you'll have to go through a little more work to convert the geometry into an in-memory version
22:29.18 mcaruso hmmm
22:29.28 brlcad not hard, i actually just finished writing a tool that does exactly that
22:29.34 brlcad for a different purpose
22:29.35 mcaruso ooooo
22:29.57 brlcad the in-memory processing part that is, I don't modify the geometry though that becomes easy
22:30.35 brlcad check out the src/gtools/g_transfer.c source in CVS head
22:30.44 mcaruso ok
22:31.17 brlcad i.e. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c?rev=1.11&view=auto
22:31.43 brlcad that program is a client and server example application
22:31.53 brlcad (i.e. is run in one of the two modes)
22:32.27 brlcad you run the server, connect to it with the client and the geometry is transferred to the remote host, kept in-memory only and processed from there (raytraced)
22:33.35 brlcad two main routines are send_to_server() that the client uses to read the geometry off disk in a serialized format, to send to the server
22:34.32 pra5ad g_transfer is what u created for mike?
22:34.34 brlcad db_get_external(&ext, dp, dbip); gets the "external"/serialized format which is then sent to the server
22:34.40 brlcad pra5ad: yes
22:34.50 brlcad different mike :)
22:35.05 pra5ad eh
22:35.33 brlcad the server then gets the external/serialized geometry from the client and processes it with server_geom()
22:36.50 mcaruso so if you were to make an animation lets say (movie) creating an in-memory version of the geoemtry is necessary, correct?
22:37.22 mcaruso Im not making a movie but just using that as an example
22:37.28 brlcad depends whether you're acticulating the geometry or the camera
22:37.40 brlcad if it's just the camera, then no
22:37.55 mcaruso yea lets say geometry
22:37.56 brlcad that's just shooting rays from different locations/grids
22:38.42 mcaruso and I guess it also means that if you need to move one object the entire scene also needs to be converted to in-memory
22:39.06 brlcad not necessarily -- you can have pieces in memory, and pieces not in memory
22:39.10 mcaruso ok
22:39.36 mcaruso how can I verify that a model in a .g file is built around the origin?
22:39.43 brlcad mged uses in-memory geometry while you are editing for example until you "accept" an operation
22:39.51 mcaruso oh ok
22:39.55 brlcad then it's written to disk replacing the non-in-memory version
22:40.30 mcaruso cause im thinking I might not have to turn the geometry to in-memory
22:40.45 mcaruso because I have an orientation and location of where I would like to place the object
22:40.47 brlcad probably the easiest means to verify a model is built around the origin is to load the geometry, prep it, and look at the model bounding box
22:40.54 mcaruso and I want to shoot a ray at it
22:40.59 mcaruso ok
22:41.30 mcaruso so I could create the matrix that would do a model->world transformation than get the inverse of that and multiply the position and direction vectors of my rays
22:41.42 brlcad yeah, for isolated objects, you can fake matrix manipulations and trasnformations by just shooting from different locations
22:42.08 brlcad it's when you need them in context among other objects simultaneaously that you need the in-mem version
22:42.22 brlcad yeah, that should work
22:42.25 mcaruso good point, cause I dont need that for the VL stuff
22:42.31 mcaruso just one object
22:42.32 brlcad right
22:46.50 brlcad yeah, if it's only one object, then you wont need to deal with getting external/internal formats and creating the inmem -- a lot easier/simple to transform the rays
22:49.47 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
23:30.31 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/awf/pass2.base: support ./" and .\" as an awf comment
23:32.38 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: our awf now supports ./" comments in addition to .\" ones
23:37.45 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed brlman/awf `./"' unsupported or unknown issue
23:51.15 pra5ad how can check if crond is running jobs correctly
23:51.55 ``Erik it sends you email about what it's doing? o.O
23:52.15 *** join/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net)
23:52.23 pra5ad eh
23:52.35 pra5ad by default?
23:52.44 ``Erik yes
23:52.56 ``Erik stdout and stderr get emailed to the user the cron job belongs to
23:53.44 pra5ad hmm dont have an account setup
23:54.52 ``Erik the cronjob has to belong to a user...
23:58.14 pra5ad can i do this: explicitly append to /var/log/messages from the script in /etc/cron.hourly ?
23:58.47 ``Erik uhmmmm,
23:59.08 ``Erik if you can find or write something that sends to syslog, and pipe the output of cron.hourly crap to it?
23:59.19 ``Erik I d'no if cron itself will talk to syslog directly
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060117

00:00.21 ``Erik I see no documentation indicating that it can talk syslog
00:04.22 pra5ad localhost sshd[27432] reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for public-s.com failed - POSSIBLE BREAKIN ATTEMPT!
00:04.22 pra5ad localhost sshd[27432] (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=211.125.70.86 user=root
00:04.22 pra5ad localhost sshd[27432] Failed password for root from 211.125.70.86 port 52662 ssh2
00:04.29 pra5ad :0
00:04.43 *** part/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net)
00:06.06 pra5ad localhost /USR/SBIN/CRON[22486] (root) CMD ( run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
00:06.15 pra5ad is run every hour
00:06.19 pra5ad hrm
00:07.35 pra5ad run-parts isnt finding the script in cron.hourly
00:08.59 docelic pra5ad which script ?
00:09.41 pra5ad it's my own ( blah.sh ) with 755
00:10.01 pra5ad i can explicitly call it and it runs fine
00:10.18 docelic does it have #!/bin/sh at the top ?
00:10.24 pra5ad yes
00:12.30 docelic strange.. There's surely an obvious explanation, though :)
00:14.15 pra5ad hah
00:14.27 pra5ad it didnt like '_' in the filename
00:14.30 pra5ad :\
00:14.35 pra5ad all is well
00:15.36 pra5ad or perhaps the length.. whatever =)
01:16.58 justin_ 1/2" drywall is great for the biceps
04:10.03 brlcad pra5ad: i get a couple dozen various sorts of ssh intrusion attempts a day on the server, nothing abnormal unfortunately
04:10.39 brlcad important to disable root/admin ssh though and ensure you have decent passwords at the least
04:18.20 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
04:38.21 *** join/#brlcad Weyland (n=4692492d@bz.bzflag.bz)
04:39.29 brlcad updating just about every file, that time of year again
04:40.00 Weyland newbie here
04:40.07 brlcad hello Weyland
04:40.19 Weyland few "poke around" type questions if I can
04:40.23 Weyland Hi~!
04:40.53 brlcad fire away, someone's usually around to answer.. i'm usually around and will answer eventually
04:41.39 Weyland First, forgive me of this is in the PDFs or somewhere else... I saw the IRC channel and thought to ask and interact
04:41.45 Weyland thanks
04:42.10 Weyland Can BRLCAD create files that can be used by a CAM system like MasterCAM?
04:42.49 brlcad no problem
04:42.52 brlcad feel free to hang out ;)
04:43.02 brlcad (with a real irc client eventually, of course)
04:43.15 Weyland Ah, hold on, I can do that...
04:43.19 brlcad brl-cad has exporters for a variety of geometry formats
04:43.37 brlcad more than likely, one of them is one that mastercam can read
04:43.57 Weyland is there a link to an html list of them or do I need to keep opening pdfs?
04:44.20 brlcad g-acad g-dxf g-euclid1 g-jack g-nmg g-off g-stl g-vrml
04:44.23 brlcad g-adrt g-euclid g-iges g-nff g-obj g-shell.rect g-tankill g-x3d
04:44.46 Weyland kewl - stl adn iges
04:44.49 brlcad dxf, iges, stl, and obj are highly likely
04:44.51 Weyland and*
04:44.58 Weyland kewl
04:44.59 Weyland thanks
04:45.18 Weyland here, lemme get a client running and come back
04:45.30 brlcad mind you that those are all explicit/facetized geometry formats, not implicit like brl-cad prefers
04:45.46 brlcad but they'll usually get the job done
04:45.48 brlcad sure
04:46.25 *** join/#brlcad weyland (n=weyland@adsl-146-73-45.mia.bellsouth.net)
04:46.31 weyland better?
04:46.58 brlcad :)
04:47.03 weyland :)
04:47.05 weyland okay...
04:47.30 weyland realistically, how does BRLCAD compare to SolidWorks?
04:47.45 weyland or is there a comparison?
04:47.48 brlcad heh, that's a pretty involved question ;)
04:47.59 weyland Well, let me back up a minute
04:48.07 brlcad lemme see if I can find a link -- i went into some detail on a message thread somewhere
04:48.32 weyland I've been using SW and MasterCAM for a while and really like SW, and deal with mcam
04:48.42 weyland okay, kewl
04:49.01 weyland BUT~! I'm always looking for ways to do things natively in Linux...
04:49.20 weyland and have been looking for a good solid modeller in linux for some time
04:49.36 brlcad brl-cad will feel incredibly different in some respects .. it was designed for different purposes and with different methodologies
04:49.39 weyland SW is (for me) very quick and easy
04:49.47 brlcad that said, both can and do get the job done and are in production use
04:50.06 weyland I don't mind different methods
04:50.23 weyland it's the results and ease of use that matter to me
04:50.59 weyland after that, it's keeping on the lookout for ways to completely shed any ties to windows
04:51.24 weyland Well... after making sure to remain productive at the shop :)
04:51.52 brlcad here's one relevant thread: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1273540&forum_id=362509
04:51.56 weyland Also, is BRL-CAD parametric?
04:52.15 brlcad brl-cad has the results, long long history of them
04:52.46 brlcad the ease of use depends on who you talk to -- from a sw background, you probably won't find it easy to use at least at first
04:53.36 weyland kewl, honesty. *THAT* I can work with... :)
04:54.04 weyland <PROTECTED>
04:54.25 brlcad mged is the primary modeler in brl-cad, one of about 400 tools in all
04:54.40 weyland In the end, I'll evaluate it anyway. I'm just looking for some insights up front
04:54.59 brlcad mged's interface leaves much to be desired, but it gets the job done for the experts quickly
04:55.22 brlcad new users tend to cry for a couple weeks, then start to appreciate it after they make it through the training
04:55.47 brlcad brl-cad does not have decent support for parametrics or expressions yet if that's what you meant
04:56.02 brlcad it's on the to do list
04:56.09 weyland what I mean is this -
04:56.30 brlcad it's not a brep modeler either ;)
04:56.42 brlcad though brep support is improving
04:57.22 brlcad it's very strongly implicit modeling based, CSG hierarchies from top to bottom
04:57.33 weyland In SW, I can choose a "feature" and change it's "properties" to change its size, and if there are other features that are linked to that one, they will all change similarly, without my having to go and choose each one individually.
04:57.49 weyland Does BRL-CAD have something similar?
04:58.14 weyland brep is not something I'm familiar with. definition?
04:58.43 brlcad that's parametrics and expressions, getting geometry to tie to other geometry and automatically resolve updates
04:58.52 brlcad it's a hot topic and wanted feature, but not yet a reality
04:59.02 weyland okay.
04:59.32 weyland is there an expected timeline?
05:00.10 brlcad with the nature of open source, hard to say -- depends a lot on the drive of the community
05:00.17 weyland understood
05:00.47 weyland just poking around, trying to get an idea of what's been going on and how things have been moving
05:01.10 brlcad that and managing the time constraints with the other priorities going on -- like the last couple months have been heavy getting the Windows port merged in cleanly
05:01.23 weyland :)
05:02.17 weyland I've been using EMC as a maching controller, and there's a similar situation with regard to getting threading for lathe going.
05:03.31 brlcad there was a couple guys highly interested in coupling brl-cad to emc or having it export gcode directly or indirectly for a while, the interests ebb and flow
05:03.56 weyland it would probably help both of you greatly
05:04.10 weyland EMC is really, really good
05:04.22 weyland weird learning curve, but worht it.
05:04.47 brlcad with the way most things in brl-cad are isolated into commands, writing bridges usually becomes a matter of writing an exporter
05:06.27 weyland right, right
05:07.19 brlcad biggest project under development right now is a revamped modeling interface, since that is brl-cad's weakest link generally speaking
05:07.38 weyland you mean like a better gui?
05:07.49 brlcad for all the mged does very well, there are several simple things from just an interface perspective that make it a pita
05:07.54 brlcad indeed I do
05:08.30 weyland right... I understand... still, I (personally) don't mind overmuch a CLI box
05:09.26 weyland SW *is* really nice in that its GUI is very quick and intuitive, but I don't mind a CLI if it is quick and good as well
05:09.53 brlcad the cli isn't going away, just a matter of making the gui-side much better and making the cli more discoverable as well
05:10.00 weyland kewl
05:10.11 brlcad the cli as it stands is probably mged's strongest point
05:10.50 brlcad several of brl-cad's expert modelers swear by it saying there are things they can do with it that they can't even begin to approach in pro/e, unigraphics
05:10.51 weyland CLI's usually are :)
05:11.11 weyland hmmm... okay
05:11.22 brlcad it is a fully scriptable and extendable environment as well
05:12.02 weyland I'm thinking that BRL-CAd is probably MUCH more powerful than *I'LL* ever need, but I'm still intrested
05:12.55 weyland Basically, I really would love to find something Linux based for my modelling
05:13.39 weyland SW is pretty much perfect for me, save for the windows thing...
05:14.20 brlcad learning to model using csg operations as your primary technique is often the hard part for users coming from a brep modeler like solidworks
05:14.58 weyland If you guys ever did get BRL-CAD to do CAM output (with or without EMC interface) THAT would be the cat's pajamas~!
05:15.01 brlcad yeah, trust me.. supporting windows isn't at the top of my list, but the masses do speak loudly and frequently
05:15.25 brlcad heh
05:15.47 weyland CSG? BREP? where can I find these defs?
05:16.05 weyland I'm not "trained" so miss a lot of meanings
05:16.54 brlcad moderately simple introduction to CSG on wikipedia and other places on the web
05:16.59 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry iirc
05:17.08 weyland Ah, okay, kewl
05:18.22 brlcad one or two bullets on various techniques here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling
05:19.05 brlcad most modelers are some sort of hybrid system, even brl-cad, though brl-cad still has a massive foundation on CSG
05:19.56 brlcad whereas may of the other systems tend to promote feature brep modeling with parametrics
05:21.15 weyland AH~! Brep~! Now I get it.
05:21.42 weyland yes... brep + parametrics = sw
05:21.45 weyland got it
05:22.16 weyland actually very good articles
05:22.40 brlcad the fundamental mathematiccal differences are usually explicit vs implicit modeling, which is a little more involved to explain
05:24.26 weyland Well, I think I'll play around with it for a bit and see what happens
05:24.40 weyland Thanks very much for your time and efforts
05:24.41 brlcad you found the tutorial manuals?
05:24.48 weyland PDFs?
05:24.51 brlcad on the website
05:24.53 brlcad yeah
05:25.01 brlcad volume II in particular for getting started with mged
05:25.16 weyland yes, was using the first one and doing the sphere excercise
05:25.17 brlcad you won't likely be able to just jump in without going through some of the tutorials
05:25.26 weyland no chance :)
05:25.44 weyland no offense - but it's not at all intuitive :)
05:25.53 brlcad no offense taken
05:25.55 brlcad i agree
05:26.08 weyland still, it didn't take but a few minutes to get a few pages in of the tutorial
05:26.15 brlcad that's why a new modeler interface is a long-term-priority
05:26.31 weyland that's how I learned both SW and Mcam
05:26.41 weyland from the tutorials
05:27.27 weyland not that I really *know* either one, but I can use them for my purposes.
05:28.16 weyland Are you aware of anyone actually using BRL-CAD in a production machinine shop environment?
05:28.33 brlcad hmm
05:28.36 weyland - I'm a one man shop
05:28.55 weyland oops - machine shop
05:29.04 brlcad nobody specific comes to mind, but that's consdierably outside my realm of contacts :)
05:29.13 weyland okay, kewl
05:29.18 weyland thought to ask
05:29.54 brlcad there have been folks askeing specifically about cam/machining purposes
05:30.07 brlcad so I'd imagine yes as they are questions on use, not just passive interest
05:30.41 weyland actually, thinking on it, you might wanna get with the EMC guys and offer the package for inclusion with the EMC releases/CDs
05:30.44 brlcad more than happy to make brl-cad be what it needs to for it though ;)
05:30.57 weyland Good to hear :)
05:31.10 brlcad i spoke with the emc guys early last year for a little while
05:31.28 brlcad and there is mutual interest
05:31.36 weyland some new guys (really good guys, too) are involved these days
05:31.44 brlcad it's more a matter of getting more than myself interested involved in the actual coding ;)
05:31.45 weyland I think it could really benefit both of you
05:31.50 weyland :)
05:32.40 brlcad there are a couple major areas like that we can/should be more inolved with (FEA anyone?) but are strapped for time/people
05:32.41 weyland GraphiteOne was included and people started using it just because it was there.
05:32.44 pra5ad brlcad is just lazy
05:32.52 weyland lol
05:33.00 weyland I know I tried it.
05:33.05 weyland hated it, but I tried it
05:33.08 brlcad ~lart pra5ad
05:33.17 weyland lol
05:34.01 weyland Kinematics would be fantastic
05:34.04 weyland :)
05:34.18 brlcad there is rudimentary kinematics support actually
05:34.26 weyland and while yer at it, an open bar would be great too
05:34.33 brlcad not simple to use, but it's there -- has been used to make some movies
05:34.42 pra5ad we only serve sake
05:34.44 pra5ad just a heads up
05:34.45 weyland kewlio, didn't know that
05:34.53 weyland lol
05:34.58 weyland Damn. No Mead?
05:35.05 brlcad mm..
05:35.21 pra5ad talk to ``Erik the mad for mead
05:35.32 weyland brewing some now
05:35.43 weyland drinking some always
05:35.49 brlcad :)
05:36.22 weyland Well, gotta go, but I thank you for the honest info
05:36.30 weyland I'll be baq, I'm sure
05:36.32 brlcad no problem
05:36.43 weyland I'll check in here from time to time
05:36.48 brlcad keep an eye here or on the brlcad-news mailing list for announcements ;)
05:36.57 weyland will do
05:36.59 weyland Thanks
05:37.02 weyland nite
05:37.06 brlcad cya
05:46.45 brlcad heh, seriously? need more then
05:55.19 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (276 files in 47 dirs): fix the manpage commments via s/\.\/"/.\\\"/g
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06:20.53 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/cvs2cl.pl: revert inadvertent mod that will break the script
06:22.29 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/library/safe.tcl: revert inadvertent mod
06:27.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/configure: no need to put configure in cvs, especially if we're not using it
06:29.28 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/unix/tclUnixFile.c: revert
06:31.13 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: revert
06:32.55 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/win/configure: don't need configure, can be generated
06:33.19 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/win/tclWinFCmd.c: revert
06:34.07 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/tools/configure: don't need configure, can be generated
06:36.31 PKMOBILE (01:33:46) Enigma Geist: This "chuck kennedy" the site talks about...
06:36.31 PKMOBILE (01:33:52) MK: thats my dad
06:36.32 PKMOBILE (01:34:47) Enigma Geist: Kermit's your dad? O.O
06:36.32 PKMOBILE (01:34:53) MK: yeah
06:36.32 PKMOBILE (01:35:00) Enigma Geist: *jaw drops*
06:36.47 PKMOBILE i dont get it i swear!
06:39.52 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/unix/configure: don't need configure in cvs
06:40.55 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/ (tclFileName.c tclIOUtil.c): revert
06:41.55 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/win/configure: don't need configure in cvs
06:43.59 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/fs_dialog.tk: revert
06:51.20 brlcad PKMOBILE: heh
06:52.54 PKMOBILE i think hes starting to get old... he had me doing all these diagnostics trying to figure out why we couldnt connect to play a game and it turns out he disconnected his computer from the network the night before
06:53.29 brlcad mmm heh
06:54.34 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (iwidgets/configure libz/configure): don't need configure in cvs
06:55.16 PKMOBILE brlcad, did you ever put in that request for them to restore the database or should i redo it from scratch or what?
07:03.56 PKMOBILE i could also just pretty up the static page too
07:07.45 brlcad er, i did and they did
07:09.06 brlcad it's in a file iirc on node1
07:10.32 PKMOBILE oops
07:10.36 PKMOBILE didnt get the memo :-P
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20:53.49 pier brlcad
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21:42.32 cad692 Just want to confirm .... was I told yesterday that Windows distribution is anticipated within a few weeks?
21:51.43 archivist thats what the man said and why didnt you wait for an answer
23:33.56 brlcad archivist: heh indeed
23:34.52 archivist impatient people, they just dont know the ways of irc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060118

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060118

00:37.54 archivist our computers do most of the lurking for us
01:09.52 ``Erik *autolurk*
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01:29.24 ``Erik argle blargle nawdle zous
01:48.00 pra5ad what he said
01:50.54 justin_ mmm, only 3 pieces of drywall left
01:51.18 justin_ the disturbing part is the gym is going to require 3x this work
01:56.50 tegtmeye what is a gym for? never heard of one before
01:57.03 tegtmeye <- munching on a twinky
01:58.52 ``Erik hah
01:59.44 justin_ bah, I have no junk food
02:01.13 justin_ I think I will start installing drop ceiling on thursday
02:01.47 tegtmeye mmmmm calcium sulfate (in best Homer voice)
02:02.12 justin_ I wish my promotion would hurry up and go through, I want to bring in my homer slippers
02:03.23 justin_ with liquid air foot cooling system
02:03.49 tegtmeye lol
02:04.36 tegtmeye I'll get you the water powered pecking bird for your keyboard as a promotion gift
02:04.59 justin_ ooh
02:05.37 justin_ if I get 2, I'd get twice the work done
02:06.47 justin_ mike, when we make liquid air, we can be cool and overclock our processors to 10 gigglehurts
02:07.02 justin_ and watch them blow a hole through the building
02:07.20 tegtmeye as long as i can get a really big exhaust pipe for my computer
02:07.26 pra5ad b238? halleluah!
02:07.38 justin_ I got dibs on a big tail fin
02:07.52 justin_ (with racing stripes)
02:08.00 tegtmeye type 'R'
02:08.09 justin_ for Riceronni
02:09.18 justin_ first thing I do when I become filthy rich, is slap a fin on the trooper, and make it a big R/C car
02:10.18 justin_ and uses my ray-tracing engine to target innocent pedestrians to shoot nerf arrows at
02:10.44 tegtmeye lol
02:11.18 tegtmeye 1 millliion innocent bystanders per sec...
02:11.41 justin_ indeed
02:12.04 justin_ with SSE instructions I could shoot 4 pedestrians at once!
02:16.16 justin_ dried seamonkey's
03:42.35 justin_ I need to get me one of them new fangled graphics cards
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06:43.22 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh:
06:43.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: convert/update the copyright script from a BSD sed using the -E option for
06:43.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: extended regular expressions (an option which the GNU sed doesn't recognize).
06:43.23 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: convert the sed expressions to basic regular expressions instead so it works
06:43.24 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: with either without needing to test sed for option support or limiting to one
06:43.25 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: versus the other.
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06:46.46 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1646 files in 72 dirs): update copyright to 2006
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14:23.25 MaDrense hi
14:23.41 MaDrense can BRL-CAD be used as a C++ modelling kernel ?
14:23.53 MaDrense similar to Spatial's ACIS or Open Cascade ?
14:33.37 brlcad MaDrense: hello and yes/no
14:34.55 brlcad MaDrense: there is a relatively simple API to the geometry services in BRL-CAD
14:36.28 brlcad for creating geometry only, there is libwdb (Write DataBase library) which is a set of C functions that create geometry, e.g. mk_sph() to create a sphere
14:37.57 MaDrense and does it have csg functions ?!
14:38.06 MaDrense do they operate on the mesh ?
15:07.55 brlcad er
15:07.58 brlcad yes and yes
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15:58.50 *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
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16:11.10 cad648 I've been having trouble with IRC. Just want to confirm: was I told days ago Windows release was anticipated "in a few weeks"
16:13.10 archivist so why are you asking again
16:15.31 cad648 Because I've been having trouble with IRC ... asking into the void (or so it seems).
16:15.55 cad648 and because I didn't note down the previous answer
16:20.20 archivist well have patience 2-3 weeks is not too long
16:21.20 cad648 Thanks ... just wanted to double check and copy to the bosses.
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18:09.53 brlcad pier: pong
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19:35.23 pier brlcad
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19:45.04 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (5 files in 5 dirs): include the files in the distribution
19:46.58 brlcad pier: best to just ask/speak :) I'll respond
19:47.53 pier ok sorry, it is about the II vol
19:49.04 pier I'm running through some problem with html conversion from pdf format
19:49.16 brlcad eekage
19:49.21 brlcad i can imagine
19:49.27 brlcad i wouldn't start with that ;)
19:49.32 pier I wanted to preserve the template of the document as well as the figures and so on
19:50.22 brlcad how about I provide the document in word format, convert from that to html first
19:50.30 pier the program I've found doesn't want to compile and all I've got is pure txt
19:50.50 pier that woud b great
19:51.30 brlcad let me see if I can find it
19:51.57 pier ok
20:01.56 brlcad found the files, but waiting from another guy to see which file is the "latest"
20:02.36 pier ok
20:23.42 pier si, la linguetta americana, a mezza luna anche detta woodruff key
20:58.36 ``Erik (yeah, it was the mime type)
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21:05.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/ (Makefile.am archer/Makefile.am): include missing stuff in the distribution, add the Makefile.defs for fast builds
21:10.03 pier ?
21:10.06 brlcad at least how la linguetta americana has anything to do with woodruff keys :)
21:10.30 brlcad found the file
21:10.31 pier sorry typed into the wrong window :(
21:10.34 brlcad i know :)
21:10.37 pier ok
21:11.35 pier how can I get hold of it? :)
21:15.09 brlcad exporting, give me a couple minutes
21:16.20 pier take it easy
21:26.36 brlcad okay, good to go
22:11.20 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.217.136)
22:32.13 ``Erik brlcad, 7.6.8 ?
22:41.55 brlcad ``Erik: yeah
22:42.04 brlcad debating it today
22:42.37 brlcad i wasn't going to make a jan release, letting Dec/Jan be our one "downtime" longer iteration
22:51.47 brlcad but then 'someone' complained, so I've been thinking how to do it without stopping what i'm already doing
23:01.10 ``Erik heh, 'someone'? o.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060119

00:19.58 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
00:19.58 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: search for the tcl/tk stub libraries too, and utilize them accordingly if
00:19.58 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: someone asks for a system tcl or tk. for now, presume that tcl+tclstub and
00:19.58 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: tk+tkstub always exist together or at least that it'll link regardless.
00:34.56 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: modify the auto_path as soon as we have the tcl interpreter so that even resources like tk.tcl may be found when mixing system/non-system tcl with other system/non-system components
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02:08.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: have archer search the current directory for tclscripts in case we're not installed
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04:05.51 justin_ haha
04:05.56 justin_ first article on slashdot
04:06.37 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mingw is once again delayed a release, archer rises to the list for the current distribution
04:14.18 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support for features either as primitives or operations or both, e.g. chamfer, fillet, round
04:28.44 pra5ad link
04:29.57 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: system identifier application with sysctl-style information database
04:31.50 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: justin's idea of a librt-based path tracer is pretty cool
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04:40.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: while it's bizarre for them to be different, only report a failure to conform if the implementation is epsilon is less than the expected power
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12:24.26 d_rossberg what's the plan with HAVE_CONFIG_H ?
12:25.14 d_rossberg you need it for every brlcad application, e.g. http://brlcad.org/rtexample.c
12:30.03 d_rossberg this define causes trouble for the users (developers are used to trouble)
13:46.44 learner d_rossberg, the plan for it is to have it go away completely on an install, same for brlcad_config.h, like it is supposed to
13:48.23 learner i believe i now have it so that the header file isn't used in common.h if it's installed so that brlcad_config.h may be left uninstalled
13:48.33 learner but haven't fully checked
13:59.28 learner even with the rtexample.c application, it only uses common.h -- which is supposed to hide the detail of whether you have the define or not and make it so that the config.h doesn't need to be installed for it to work
14:00.13 learner this was broken for a few releases, requiring you to either provide the define, or add the header, or add a search dir
14:00.30 learner shouldn't be the case on cvs head now though
14:13.38 d_rossberg rtexample.c includes raytrace.h which includes bu.h which uses the time_t type which requires time.h which is only included if HAVE_TIME_H is defined so "config.h" is required
14:15.33 ``Erik fucking fuckity fuck fuck fuck
14:17.46 d_rossberg lerner: your goal is to distinguish between internal and external declarations
14:18.18 d_rossberg common.h should provide the internal declarations only if required
14:21.40 ``Erik sean, is justin there?
14:21.50 learner d_rossberg: yes, a mistake in the bu.h header really
14:22.04 learner ``Erik: i dunno
14:22.14 ``Erik oh, you're not in the office, ok
14:22.23 ``Erik I'm thinking about suckering someone into driving me around to buy a new car
14:22.29 ``Erik *sigh*
14:22.32 learner heh
14:22.42 ``Erik I blew the tranny out on my truck this morning
14:23.26 d_rossberg lernaer: what's the mistake, the time_t or the ifdef HAVE_TIME_H?
14:23.33 learner d_rossberg: yes, that is the goal, and config.h is definitely a private header .. bu.h and other headers need to be fixed to remove the HAVE_ defines and system header includes if possible
14:24.21 learner d_rossberg: probably both
14:24.43 learner the ifdef is fine really, it just can't require what's in the ifdef
14:25.28 learner well, half-fine -- bad things might then happen if a user provides HAVE_ defines and our header's logic doesn't behave
14:25.35 ``Erik hey, sean, wanna take the day off, hang with a bud, and cruise by car sales lots? :D *Duck*
14:25.55 learner heh
14:26.39 learner possibly, though I can't take a day off this week .. already did :)
14:27.04 ``Erik ah, and since you're contractor, I don't think I can donate leave to you
14:28.51 ``Erik 6.2 miles... about 2 hrs
14:31.40 d_rossberg lerner: at the moment, it looks like you need this defines
14:32.31 d_rossberg lerner: hiding the internal structures, e.g. casts to void*, requires a large amount of work
14:37.13 learner d_rossberg: i agree, but i do believe it to be the right long-term direction
14:37.24 learner or do you have another idea? :)
14:38.42 learner they should certainly work for internal, which they do now -- it's of course the public external header appearance that will take a fair bit of restructuring
14:39.06 learner as I mentioned in the dev e-mail, the bigger problem in my view is the dependency ordering of the headers now
14:39.30 learner e.g. *have* to include machine.h before anything, should include vmath.h before raytrace.h, etc
14:40.05 learner the headers don't function stand-alone, and that I do believe needs fixing
14:42.17 d_rossberg learner: that's the classical direction (bringing object orientation into c code)
14:43.08 d_rossberg from my own experiance i can say: it ends with c++ classes :)
14:45.39 d_rossberg but for now i'll start with adapting "my" projectfiles
14:47.48 ``Erik phrack
14:53.02 Twingy .
15:08.48 Twingy heh
15:08.53 Twingy where?
15:10.43 ``Erik the new beamer lot
15:11.17 Twingy how far?
15:11.19 ``Erik y'know when you turn left from 543 to go to my house, then go through a stop light? it's at that light
15:11.25 ``Erik a mile or two
15:11.28 ``Erik by foot
15:11.33 Twingy got a bike?
15:11.35 ``Erik 4 or 5 walking, due to the road geomtry
15:11.50 ``Erik no :( was actually talking sean and lee into helping me buy one a couple weeks ago
15:11.50 ``Erik heh
15:11.57 Twingy might not be a bad idea to pick one up at a nearby bike store?
15:12.03 Twingy ah
15:12.03 ``Erik (I'm a puss, I need people to hold my hand)
15:12.42 ``Erik 'k, lemme think, drivers license, phone, and a copy of my salary w2 for proof of income/employment... damn I shouldn't have left my running shoes at work :(
15:12.53 Twingy hrm
15:13.00 Twingy maybe lease something new?
15:13.09 Twingy why not do a 24 month lease on a new car?
15:13.10 ``Erik well, they have new and used over there
15:13.25 ``Erik I'll go see what they have, if anything grooves with me, I'll see how fast I can get the keys
15:13.34 Twingy heh, k
15:13.40 ``Erik I have like 15k to throw at it, I'm sure I'll get some wheels
15:13.48 Twingy or finance something
15:13.50 Twingy with 0 down
15:13.58 ``Erik ooh, that reminds me, check book
15:14.12 ``Erik ok, catch ya'll later
15:14.40 Twingy later
15:30.07 brlcad ``Erik: ping
15:35.08 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/Makefile.am: missing trailing slash
16:00.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor tweaks to the _invoke_wizard_update and _init_obj_edit_view methods.
17:42.05 *** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-141-156-220-116.res.east.verizon.net)
17:45.29 raz brlcad: how do you change the mged status from 'VIEWING' to a status in which we can edit the model?
17:47.37 brlcad raz: depends on what you want to edit
17:48.15 brlcad you can edit a primitive with 'sed' (solid edit), edit an object/combination with 'oed'
17:48.32 brlcad selecting matrix edit or primitive edit on the menu will get you into an edit mode as well
17:49.19 brlcad the 'sill' solid illuminate command will also take you into solid edit mode
17:52.15 raz :brlcad we want to rotate everything in the ktank.g file
18:14.34 raz brlcad:need to change the orientation of ktank.g
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19:10.40 raz exit
19:20.03 ``Erik heh
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19:44.12 Twingy back?
19:44.31 ``Erik yeah
19:44.41 Twingy and?
19:44.41 brlcad and?
19:44.58 ``Erik drove a few cars, like 'em, but according to kbb and edmunds, they're overpriced
19:45.06 ``Erik wondering if I should head down to another dealership
19:45.10 ``Erik or two
19:45.10 Twingy so you ARE getting the honda civic?
19:45.15 ``Erik heh, no
19:45.25 ``Erik I drove a cooper mini S, bmw 330xi, and bmw m3
19:45.30 Twingy ahh, you went with the honda element
19:45.30 ``Erik the m3 is... nice.
19:45.38 Twingy gonna finance?
19:45.42 ``Erik yeah
19:45.42 brlcad heh, of course it is :)
19:45.53 Twingy only $500/mo? :)
19:46.04 ``Erik the m3 would be more like 700/mo
19:46.10 Twingy eww
19:46.15 Twingy how much is that car?'
19:46.17 ``Erik for a 3 yr
19:46.20 ``Erik they're asking 36
19:46.43 Twingy 700 x 36 is $25k
19:46.43 ``Erik 37, even
19:46.51 ``Erik 10k down
19:46.58 Twingy ah, heh
19:47.02 ``Erik kbb says 34, edmunds says 31
19:47.03 Twingy too rich for my blood
19:47.11 ``Erik dude, it's a rocket on wheels
19:47.21 Twingy I don't need a rocket on wheels to get to work and back
19:47.46 Twingy especially with half the trip at 40 mph :)
19:49.26 Twingy call mike
19:49.29 ``Erik ?
19:49.38 Twingy he's rambling
19:49.50 ``Erik you call him
19:49.51 ``Erik he won't notice
19:49.57 Twingy good point
19:50.23 Twingy ah, he left on his own, boggle
21:00.58 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176)
21:35.49 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176)
23:33.48 ``Erik damn I feel poor
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060120

00:41.48 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: unused var
01:08.31 pra5ad get a new ride yet?
01:16.19 brlcad you got it?
01:17.09 ``Erik ayup
01:17.26 ``Erik it's purdee, and owie fast
01:19.10 pra5ad nice =)
01:19.11 ``Erik and, damnit, my intent was to show up tomorrow and say I bought a car real quick and try to trick people into thinking it was a beater
01:19.48 ``Erik http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=CCCCCC&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/2043000-2043999/2043648_1_full.jpg
01:20.16 ``Erik http://www.diecastmuscle.com/images/common/thumbnail/375/aa70544c.jpg
01:20.20 ``Erik http://www.diecastmuscle.com/images/common/thumbnail/375/aa70544.jpg
01:20.56 ``Erik laguna seca blue, with grey leather interior, luxery package, winter package, moonroof, etc etc etc
01:21.02 ``Erik now I'm poor.
01:21.08 ``Erik but I have a bitchin' ride.
01:23.57 pra5ad cant wait to join the club
01:24.10 brlcad nice
01:24.38 ``Erik the color grated on me at first, but I'm liking it more and more
01:24.43 ``Erik I guess I'm driving to lunch tomorrow ;)
01:50.54 phcoder damn - i won't see it 'til tuesday...
01:50.57 phcoder nice
01:53.13 ``Erik and I'm gonna park it as close to the front door as possible. Bitch. :D
01:53.19 phcoder haha!
01:53.29 phcoder have fun. you get in too damn late.
01:53.35 phcoder you'll never get a spot.
01:53.39 ``Erik indeed
01:53.46 ``Erik last week, I had to park in the grass :(
01:53.48 ``Erik right next to rons car
01:53.52 phcoder i saw that, jeez
01:54.00 ``Erik auten did, too
01:54.10 ``Erik maybe with this car, I'll wake up at 6am and go OMFGIWANTTODRIVE
01:54.10 phcoder extra people in the compound or something?
01:54.11 ``Erik :D
01:54.14 ``Erik no clue
01:54.17 phcoder :-)
01:54.22 phcoder i would
01:54.24 ``Erik I did two loops, john did one... we both went into the grass
01:54.26 phcoder i love driving
01:54.58 ``Erik I got sick of it... but it may've been because my truck was underpowered, had vibration issues (bad ujoint or something) and no radio...
01:55.05 ``Erik I d'no
01:55.07 ``Erik I'm giddy
01:55.11 ``Erik I spent the last hour sitting in it
01:55.12 phcoder yeah - you get xm?
01:55.16 phcoder :-D
01:55.20 ``Erik no
01:55.24 ``Erik '01
01:55.28 phcoder 6 disc cd
01:55.31 ``Erik check it out, dude, cassette tape in the dash
01:55.31 phcoder ?
01:55.37 phcoder it's an 01?
01:55.38 ``Erik and 6 cd in the trunk
01:55.39 ``Erik yeah
01:55.40 phcoder not new?
01:55.43 ``Erik no :(
01:55.45 ``Erik I'm po'
01:55.47 phcoder still looks sweet
01:55.49 ``Erik and I needed something NOW
01:55.53 ``Erik 29k miles
01:55.58 ``Erik so not too far from new
01:55.59 phcoder dude - it's a f'n sweet car
01:56.04 phcoder who cares if its not new
01:56.15 phcoder no kidding
01:56.20 ``Erik cold weather package, luxury package, moon roof, ...
01:56.21 phcoder that's pretty low for an 01
01:56.24 ``Erik was probably a 70k car new
01:56.31 phcoder i'm over that for an 03
01:56.38 phcoder yeah
01:57.16 phcoder how can you be po' ?? you don't have a kid ;-)
01:57.27 ``Erik heh
01:57.34 phcoder oh wait - all those microbrews ;-)
01:57.36 ``Erik I dont' have a whif bringing in like 20 bucks a week, either
01:57.37 ``Erik :D
01:57.53 phcoder $20????????
01:57.56 ``Erik microbrews and copious consumption of high grade spirits. My booze budget took a hit today.
01:57.58 phcoder that would be nice :-)
01:58.12 ``Erik no more $200/mo :(
01:58.24 ``Erik and I'll probably start bringing food in for lunch
01:58.25 ``Erik heh
01:58.27 phcoder nope
01:58.29 ``Erik so po'
01:58.36 phcoder which is good - cause you can't drink and drive
01:58.50 ``Erik hopefully the machine is as intoxicating as the intoxicants
01:58.59 ``Erik it's so damn prett
01:59.00 ``Erik y
01:59.01 phcoder should be
01:59.14 ``Erik 6 gears, and every single one of them will get me in trouble
01:59.20 phcoder can't wait to see it - we can all live vicariously through you
01:59.23 ``Erik heh
01:59.33 phcoder just don't kill it like your truck
01:59.37 ``Erik or you can whup that whifs bottom until she brings home the bacon ;)
01:59.43 phcoder yeah right
01:59.45 ``Erik oddly enough, I've felt no urge to floor it
01:59.53 phcoder odd. yes.
01:59.54 ``Erik and my truck got over 10 years
01:59.55 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
02:00.16 ``Erik I think having rice stomping power at my disposal makes me... complacent
02:00.21 ``Erik I don't need to prove anything with it
02:00.30 phcoder heh
02:00.36 ``Erik odd
02:00.42 ``Erik but it's sooo damn pretty
02:00.53 phcoder just wait till you pull up next to an a8 - they always want to race
02:00.55 phcoder don't know why
02:00.59 ``Erik heh
02:01.14 ``Erik cuz some dumbass paid $80k for a v8 audi... they have to prove it's not a puss car
02:01.16 ``Erik O:-)
02:01.23 phcoder right
02:02.10 ``Erik I have a feeling that I'm gonna be coming off of lights nice and easy, and morons will be bragging about roasting an m3 with their hopped up civic on fag boards
02:02.21 ``Erik but, y'know, that's ok :)
02:02.30 phcoder that's fun. cause you know it ain'
02:02.33 phcoder t true
02:02.35 ``Erik I have metal sex in my garage right now
02:02.43 phcoder haha
02:03.09 ``Erik still wanna fix my truck and drive it when ti's snowey/slushy/icy, tho
02:03.27 phcoder might be a good idea, unless the fix costs too much
02:03.36 ``Erik rather artard ran into the truck than the car when they figure out that 4wd on an suv doesn't mean it stops any better
02:04.41 ``Erik <-- ponders switching the suspension to sport and turning off traction control on the drive to work tomorrow o.O
02:04.46 ``Erik just to see what too fucking much is
02:04.47 ``Erik :D
02:05.04 phcoder "switching" ?
02:05.08 ``Erik yeah
02:05.17 phcoder damn thing can dynamically adjust suspension parameters?
02:05.20 ``Erik the suspension has normal sports mode, th en another "super sports" mode
02:05.26 ``Erik hit a button on the dash and it changes
02:05.30 phcoder ha
02:05.41 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: heh, fPIC breaks irix compiler (they use DPIC)
02:05.48 ``Erik several 'sporty' cars can do it, even 'vettes...
02:06.13 ``Erik this car will make me it's bitch, I know it o.O
02:06.28 phcoder watch out...
02:06.29 ``Erik if I hadn't been drinking when I told my parents, I'd be driving right now
02:06.48 ``Erik it's got almost as much hp as my old c10, and it's way smaller/lighter
02:07.10 ``Erik and so many buttons
02:07.13 ``Erik and pretty lights
02:07.15 ``Erik and knobs
02:15.04 ``Erik http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html
02:17.16 pra5ad whats the latest gl version for fbsd?
02:17.22 pra5ad 1.5?
02:17.24 ``Erik um, whatever comes with X
02:17.31 ``Erik probably 1.5, unless you use the nvidia driver
02:17.41 pra5ad hrm
02:17.44 ``Erik which is like 1.4+
02:17.46 ``Erik iirc
02:17.58 pra5ad arb promoted ext_vbo in 1.5
02:18.15 pra5ad wondering if i should build against that
02:18.39 ``Erik you should look to see if it's available, at runtime, and provide a backup path if it is not
02:18.40 ``Erik :)
02:19.11 pra5ad vboARB(), yes.. but not the promoted ones (sans ARB postfix)
02:19.19 pra5ad meh
02:20.03 pra5ad ill stick to 1.4 spec
02:20.26 ``Erik you're supporting windows... if you're not gonna do fallback paths, you should stick to 1.1... o.O :D
02:21.38 pra5ad good point
02:23.14 ``Erik a sad point, but *shrug* competition to d3d will not be tolerated O.o
02:26.48 pra5ad that's going to be a major headache
02:27.01 pra5ad at least im not using anything besides vbo
02:27.02 ``Erik windows is a major headache, yes :)
02:27.09 ``Erik well
02:27.12 pra5ad (for now)
02:27.18 ``Erik that's why you query and provide secondary paths
02:27.26 ``Erik the drivers themselves support all this shit
02:27.30 ``Erik it's just... hard to get to
02:27.30 pra5ad that was the plan, until i saw the 1.5 spec
02:28.03 ``Erik sdl even has cross platform query/lookup functions
02:28.23 ``Erik not as slick as dlopen()/dlsym(), but windows won't let that happen :)
02:29.21 pra5ad phew varrays are 1.1
02:32.54 pra5ad nooo rangeelements is 1.2 =(
03:09.43 *** join/#brlcad justin_ (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
03:11.02 justin_ so what car are you getting?
03:12.35 pra5ad * ``Erik pets his m3
03:15.29 ``Erik got me a bmw m3
03:15.37 ``Erik <-- does some pelvic thrusts
03:25.26 justin_ what's that do to the new house purchase?
03:27.25 justin_ how long of a lease
03:30.34 ``Erik financing, not leasing, 5 yr, and it puts the house off a bit :(
03:30.54 ``Erik in the long term, I fucked up... but it's so damn pretty...
03:31.33 justin_ heh
03:33.42 ``Erik I spoze once in a while, you just have to be stupid and enjoy life ;)
03:34.06 phcoder else - why do you make money? :-P
03:35.34 justin_ to fund a small research company when you get into your 40's :D
03:35.45 phcoder that too...
03:36.01 ``Erik ok, dude, you fund one, and bring me in as a parter ;) *duck*
03:36.28 justin_ riiiight
04:45.13 brlcad ow
04:45.46 brlcad sweet car ``Erik
04:45.53 phcoder they were already dead...
04:46.09 brlcad they weren't even close to dead
04:46.15 brlcad wasn't even sore
04:46.17 phcoder "no sir, they're already dead"
04:46.24 brlcad now they're dead
04:46.27 brlcad and hurting
04:46.36 phcoder haha
04:47.28 phcoder :-)
04:47.29 brlcad did a lot more bench too, that should be sore too now
04:47.48 phcoder says "take a hike"
04:47.55 brlcad but..
04:47.59 phcoder but?
04:48.02 brlcad no straps
04:48.07 brlcad someone must have walked off with them
04:48.09 phcoder someone stole them
04:48.18 phcoder unethical weak bastards
04:48.23 brlcad rather "claimed" them
04:48.26 phcoder sure
04:48.42 phcoder "claim" is the operative word
04:48.44 phcoder jeez
04:50.03 brlcad some skinny guy passed out
04:50.17 brlcad he was delerious for like 10 minutes
04:50.26 brlcad then the paramedics came
04:50.30 phcoder that's embarassing
04:50.32 brlcad pretty eventful
04:50.54 brlcad i can't quite figure out how, though, unless he was diabetic or something
04:50.58 phcoder supposed to go to the men's room before passing out
04:51.00 brlcad he was on the machines
04:51.06 phcoder so the chicks can't see you do it
04:51.09 brlcad near a pec deck of all things
04:51.14 phcoder ?
04:51.35 brlcad hard to "get dizzy" on the machines
04:52.05 phcoder right
04:52.06 brlcad not impossible, just.. harder (to me at least)
04:52.31 brlcad now squats.. or deadlifts .. or legpress.. or cleans..
04:52.39 brlcad completely understandable :)
04:53.33 phcoder yup
08:47.40 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): set HAVE_CONFIG_H to get internal declarations
08:51.07 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp:
08:51.07 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: set HAVE_CONFIG_H to get internal declarations,
08:51.07 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: db_flags.c, db_inmem.c added
08:54.10 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: update copyright to 2006
09:18.47 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
09:21.13 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:13.13 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:25.16 pra5ad mm no sleep
11:25.34 pra5ad this is gonna be fun..
11:30.45 *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:31.58 Twingy .
15:48.54 Twingy b
15:57.25 Twingy missed a good segment with john stewart making fun of the querbecois prime minister elections :)
15:58.06 Maloeran Eh :), federal elections are a real joke as always
16:00.36 Maloeran You wouldn't be good at finding the roots of 11th-13th degree polynomials, Justin? :) It must be my lack of formal math education, I'm not doing too well on this
16:01.29 Twingy solve them numerically with newtons method
16:01.43 Maloeran Just playing with curved surface equations to see if it's possible to get something to be solved directly, without Newton's or Laguerre's iterations, for ray intersections that is
16:02.05 Twingy it can be shown you cannot solve them implicitly if the degree is higher than 3
16:02.37 Maloeran There are often other methods, but no generic solution, it depends of the problem
16:02.41 Twingy if the roots are constants you could cache them
16:04.55 Maloeran I have something that's relatively cheap to compute, and the first guesses would be good enough ( 2-3 Newton's iterations should do ), but I'm still dreaming of a solution solvable algebrically
16:05.03 Twingy nope
16:05.06 Twingy won't happen
16:05.12 Twingy you learn this in calculus 1
16:05.57 Twingy can you make the problem piecewise cubic?
16:06.14 Twingy then you can solve it algebraicly if you maintain C2 continuity
16:06.31 Maloeran Fourth degree polynomials can be easily solved too, I'm exploring solutions still
16:07.03 Twingy I suspect your cheapest route will be picewise cubic
16:08.42 Maloeran Possibly... The equations can be fairly simple for primitive curved surfaces, it would be so elegant if it could be solved directly
16:09.24 Twingy not gonna happen if you go above quartic
16:10.32 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.MacOSX: build failure on os x 10.2 is a known issue
16:12.05 Maloeran I thought some problems above 4th degree can be solved agebrically, under particular circumstances
16:12.58 Twingy circumstances such as?
16:13.37 Twingy mmm almost lunch time
16:14.31 Maloeran Such as y = x^4-2 ? ;) Some Norwegian math PhD I briefly spoke to said the equations might be solvable, he would have required much time to verify this though
16:15.02 Maloeran Ast's friend, if you followed #siggraph discussions
16:15.29 clock_ Twingy: what does twingy mean?
16:15.47 Twingy it means twingy
16:16.44 Twingy you can solve that
16:17.56 Maloeran I meant f(x)=x^5-2 or so, above 4th degree doesn't mean it can't be solved, but there's no generic solution
16:22.44 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS TODO): add bugs and feature requests observed during the 2005 winter brl-cad user training at survice.
16:23.11 Twingy lunch
16:26.13 joevalleyfield with one root solved by newton's method to some degree of accuracy, couldn't you use synthetic divisions to factor out that root and reduce the degree of everything else by 1
16:27.30 Maloeran I suppose, but considering it's for ray-tracing, the first intersection is likely to be all I need
16:28.20 joevalleyfield so doubtful there is any better way to solve your first root than numeric approximation
16:28.21 Maloeran Well Justin, I would be interested in discussing some ideas regarding the use of "meshes" of simple curved facets, sometimes during the week-end or so. Not as flexible as Nurbs, not as fast as triangles, but I think it's a fairly interesting compromise
18:15.22 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.193.127)
18:18.05 brlcad Maloeran: if you're interested in trying the newtonian method quick-like, brl-cad's libbn has a simple root solver that does this
18:18.56 brlcad does a variation of a newtonian search, simplification of polynomials, quick solutions for lower orders, and other methods, returning an array of the roots
18:21.29 joevalleyfield may i buy a vowel?
18:22.05 brlcad much better
18:22.16 brlcad silly ?nic?de
18:24.12 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.193.127)
18:49.01 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_work (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:50.11 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_work (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:50.27 brlcad b?rk!
18:51.20 Twingy \/ping flood pra5ad_work
18:51.25 Twingy :)
19:03.33 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.193.127)
19:24.38 ``Erik just log in and sigterm him
19:24.51 ``Erik or walk upstairs and sigterm him upside the head :D
19:32.00 pra5ad_work i heard the m3 ping flooding, leaving grumpys
19:40.21 ``Erik /. has some links for real mac ppc vs intel comparisons o.O
19:45.25 *** join/#brlcad pier_ (n=pier@151.56.201.94)
19:52.09 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157)
19:59.05 pra5ad_work brlcad
19:59.55 pra5ad_work i can only find g2asc
20:00.03 brlcad explain
20:00.11 pra5ad_work what was the g2bot convertor name
20:00.22 pra5ad_work u mentioned earlier
20:00.55 brlcad $ /usr/brlcad/bin/g-
20:00.55 brlcad g-acad g-dxf g-euclid1 g-jack g-nmg g-off g-stl g-vrml
20:00.58 brlcad g-adrt g-euclid g-iges g-nff g-obj g-shell.rect g-tankill g-x3d
20:01.17 pra5ad_work ah
20:01.30 brlcad g-nmg
20:01.34 brlcad then nmg-bot iirc
20:02.35 brlcad $ foo="`ls |grep -i bot | grep -v '\.'`" && echo $foo
20:02.35 brlcad bot-bldxf bot-raw bot_shell-vtk nmg-bot poly-bot
20:02.41 pra5ad_work r g-nmg -b ?
20:02.44 pra5ad_work or*
20:02.52 brlcad yep
20:07.18 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: reuse VUNITIZE_TOL from vmath instead of something new
20:11.16 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157)
20:12.18 pra5ad_work oook.. g-nmg core dumped on t62.g
20:12.27 Twingy user error
20:14.11 brlcad pra5ad_work: backtrace?
20:16.49 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_work (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:17.11 pra5ad_work http://pastebin.com/515083
20:17.57 pra5ad_work brlcad
20:17.58 pra5ad_work brlcad
20:17.58 pra5ad_work brlcad
20:18.30 brlcad punk
20:18.58 ``Erik want me to walk around the corner and smack him for you?
20:19.30 Twingy if you wouldn't mind :)
20:20.33 ``Erik mark's in there
20:20.52 pra5ad_work yes he is
20:21.21 ``Erik can't be bitchslappin' with a witness
20:21.45 pra5ad_work key + m3 = protection
20:21.49 pra5ad_work ^_^
20:28.13 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: prevent a sigsegv when the region can't be evaluated successfully
20:29.21 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:30.58 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent g-nmg segfault during tesselation
20:47.22 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157)
21:17.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: check clone args a little more consistently
21:41.29 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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22:07.03 pra5ad 36 hrs.. no sleep
22:07.07 pra5ad la tortura
22:09.14 Maloeran That can't be very productive
22:09.30 Twingy I want vodka
22:12.10 Twingy in 5 hours maybe
22:12.24 Twingy I have 2 pieces of drywall to put up, spackling and some painting
22:37.09 ``Erik hah
22:38.01 Twingy oh, maybe 7 hours, I have to watch stargate too
22:44.27 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtexample.c: main returns an int
23:49.27 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060121

00:03.00 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove the unnecessary time_t type from the public header so that the dependency on time.h may be eliminated
00:22.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mappedfile.c: cast the time_t to a long so we don't need to necessarily stash a time_t in the mappedfile structure any more
00:27.15 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: add a simple example application that shows how to use the root solver for solving polynomial roots (up to 4th order shown)
00:32.52 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: might as well add a linear root example too, fix type on rt_poly_roots()
00:33.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add roots_example.c as a sample application that uses the root solver
00:35.46 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/.cvsignore: ignore the roots_example binary
00:37.35 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new example root solving sample application
00:38.45 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, put roots_example into the right release block
00:43.04 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.8 will likely be released in february
00:51.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: don't include enigma's CVS directory in the distribution
00:53.29 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: scratch that, the test will be moved to the top-level makefile so NO cvs dirs get included
00:58.40 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: delete any CVS directories from our candidate distribution since we don't want to ship them
01:32.36 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention the name of the new root solving application, roots_example.
01:42.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
01:42.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: Forgot to mention that considerable time was spent profiling and
01:42.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: optimizing the raytracer. in particular, performance enhancements
01:42.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: were made in support of reducing large image overhead and some
01:42.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: unnecessary pixel processing. this is particularly important for
01:42.13 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: background pixels, i.e. primary rays that miss the model. performance
01:42.17 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: observed varies based on number of primary rays and the number that
03:01.28 justin_ present and accounted for
03:03.58 phcoder goodness - someone would think you have nothing else to do ;-)
03:12.47 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
03:56.44 brlcad there's something else to do?
03:58.08 phcoder :-)
03:58.32 phcoder yeah - don't ask *me* what , though...
04:15.09 justin_ mmm, only 1 small piece of drywall left
04:42.40 kaol does http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/378049 concern the version of urt included with brlcad?
04:52.53 brlcad kaol: no, it doesn't
04:53.46 brlcad kaol: that was fixed in brl-cad with release 7.0.4, January of last year iirc
05:19.03 *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
08:25.34 *** join/#brlcad DarkMaster (n=Apathy@68.33.243.45)
09:05.22 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:08.41 kaol brlcad: ok, good to know. thanks.
11:30.44 *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:33.05 pra5ad mm 16 hrs of sleep
15:39.18 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
16:37.33 pra5ad brlcad, http://pastebin.com/516214
16:37.36 pra5ad 7.7.0
16:37.56 pra5ad ack
16:38.06 pra5ad co'd wrong vers
16:38.07 pra5ad :D
16:40.20 brlcad looking
16:42.19 pra5ad what module name should i co?
16:42.28 pra5ad since head is buggy
16:42.35 pra5ad er tag
16:43.57 pra5ad or is 7.7.0 head supposed to work
16:44.03 brlcad it's not buggy, did you even read the error? :)
16:44.19 pra5ad course i didnt
16:46.44 brlcad hm interesting that it's caring, but it's valid.. missing a header
16:47.09 brlcad add a #include "pkg.h" into src/libfb/fb_generic.c before the #include "fb.h"
16:47.41 pra5ad u gonna commit the change?
16:49.12 pra5ad same thing in fb_log.c
16:50.03 brlcad yeah, it needs to go into the header
16:50.07 brlcad not the c files
16:50.13 pra5ad in fb.h?
16:50.14 brlcad add it to include/fb.h
16:50.16 pra5ad k
16:50.34 brlcad that's what I edited here, but still testing
16:51.28 pra5ad compile went thru
16:52.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: framebuffer interface is presently tied to the network package library due to a return type, should decouple that
16:52.44 brlcad do you have an sf.net account?
16:53.28 brlcad ah, never mind
16:53.47 brlcad so yeah, you can just cvs up ..
16:54.23 pra5ad yea
16:54.53 pra5ad cvs commit -m"uh.. cos it didn't work.."
16:54.56 pra5ad ;)
16:55.17 brlcad actually it did, wierd
16:55.25 brlcad what compiler?
16:56.04 pra5ad gcc 4.0.2
16:57.06 pra5ad gcc version 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu9)
16:57.48 pra5ad hmm
16:57.50 pra5ad yacc -d points_parse.y
16:57.50 pra5ad make[4]: yacc: Command not found
16:57.50 pra5ad make[4]: *** [points_parse.c] Error 127
16:57.58 pra5ad configure didnt complain..
16:59.48 brlcad ahhh, ubuntie
17:00.06 brlcad yeah, configure doesn't abort, it just defaults
17:00.12 brlcad install bison
17:00.25 brlcad and lex
17:00.28 brlcad flex
17:02.40 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/pkgswitch.c: pkg.h isn't a local header
17:03.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: pkgtypes.h is in current dir, no need to couple to the directory name
17:04.03 pra5ad http://pastebin.com/516246
17:04.45 brlcad pra5ad: what's YACC set to in your Makefile s
17:05.12 pra5ad top level Makefile?
17:05.17 brlcad any of them
17:05.31 pra5ad YACC = yacc
17:05.38 brlcad and LEX ?
17:05.54 pra5ad LEX = ${SHELL} /home/prasad/brlcad/misc/missing --run flex
17:06.20 brlcad grep YACC config.log
17:06.56 pra5ad :. grep YACC config.log
17:06.56 pra5ad YACC='yacc'
17:07.17 brlcad ah, interesting
17:07.40 pra5ad i installed bison and flex
17:07.47 brlcad so I can add a test that shuts that part of mged off if a yacc isn't installed based on that I think
17:08.38 brlcad do the same grep for LEX
17:09.15 pra5ad :. grep LEX config.log
17:09.15 pra5ad LEX='${SHELL} /home/prasad/brlcad/misc/missing --run flex'
17:09.15 pra5ad LEXLIB=''
17:09.15 pra5ad LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT=''
17:10.08 brlcad that's what's causing the other error
17:10.11 brlcad LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT
17:10.17 brlcad you don't have a lexer
17:10.29 brlcad install flex
17:10.36 brlcad (and bison if you didn't yet)
17:10.44 pra5ad i did (read up)
17:10.52 brlcad rerun autogen.sh/configure
17:10.53 pra5ad but i guess i should have reconfed
17:11.06 brlcad or forgo autogen.sh
17:11.12 brlcad but rm -rf *cache*
17:18.56 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_PROG_LEX instead of AM_PROG_LEX since the latter attempts to use the missing script to run flex but fails miserably due to the assumptions by automake that LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT will be set to something.
17:22.06 pra5ad #
17:22.06 pra5ad #ifdef __cplusplus
17:22.06 pra5ad #
17:22.06 pra5ad extern "C" {
17:22.06 pra5ad #
17:22.06 pra5ad #endif
17:22.31 pra5ad is that acceptable for cross platform?
17:23.32 pra5ad seems redundant to me.. *shrug*
17:27.04 brlcad redundant?
17:27.07 brlcad where do you see that?
17:27.50 brlcad you shouldn't have to do the extern thing -- there's some header missing its label
17:28.12 brlcad as we already do that for most of the headers if __cplusplus is defined
17:28.23 brlcad albeit more cleanly than that
17:28.35 pra5ad ah
17:31.32 brlcad that's the "__BEGIN_DECLS" and "__END_DECLS" in the headers
17:31.48 brlcad if you can make the fix to the headers so you don't have to do that in your code, commit the fix ;)
17:32.20 pra5ad fix what
17:32.41 brlcad i'd told you to add the extern "C" { #include "blah" }
17:33.15 brlcad now that you're working with head.. what file does it abort on if you remove the extern "C"
17:33.36 brlcad might as well fix the real problem
17:35.24 pra5ad ohh the problem from yesterday
17:35.38 pra5ad gimme sec
17:36.58 pra5ad http://pastebin.com/516292
17:37.03 pra5ad (brlcad make)
17:42.29 brlcad did you do a make clean there first
17:42.32 brlcad looks dirty
17:43.04 brlcad yyin and yylex are still flex/bison issues
17:43.12 pra5ad k
18:13.07 pra5ad same thing
18:13.09 pra5ad i did make clean
18:17.21 ``Erik try distclean?
18:18.21 ``Erik I had problems with that, too... on fbsd o.O mged/points...
18:18.31 ``Erik I wonder if my 'fix' broke it on whatever you're using :-/
18:18.57 ``Erik that points shit is a shoddyassed piece of shit anyways, we should figure out who wrote it and beat their ass O:-D
18:20.32 brlcad it's the shizzle
18:20.35 brlcad fo rizzle
18:20.51 brlcad going to add more parsers too
18:21.04 brlcad most of the converters should have been written as parsers
18:21.46 pra5ad so whats the fix
18:21.50 pra5ad try distclean?
18:24.26 ``Erik are you building "in dir" or "out of dir"?
18:25.25 brlcad hm
18:25.31 brlcad send me your config.log
18:25.48 brlcad and your src/mged/points/Makefile
18:26.15 ``Erik given the errors, I would ASSUME that the C sean wrote makes assumptions about the output of lex, and your lex is not producing appropriate output... perhaps a different version, or a misassumed flag
18:26.59 ``Erik (like, maybe you're using classic lex, or something other than flex...)
18:26.59 brlcad i would think that too, cept he supposedly installed flex and bison
18:27.06 ``Erik yeah, but
18:27.18 ``Erik a) did it find flex, or some other lex
18:27.20 ``Erik and b) did it add the right flags to lex
18:27.28 brlcad true, why I wanted the config.log
18:27.51 brlcad could be AC_PROG_LEX is busted for older autoconfs
18:28.01 ``Erik additionally, more of the paste (like the lex call, libtool call, etc) may be useful
18:28.08 brlcad pra5ad: what version of autoconf/automake/libtool are you using?
18:28.24 ``Erik lex, too
18:28.42 brlcad 12:35 * pra5ad is slow
18:29.41 brlcad heh
18:32.15 pra5ad yo back
18:33.02 pra5ad 2.59, 1.9.5, 1.5.6
18:33.21 pra5ad flex: 2.5.31
18:33.37 pra5ad bison 2.0
18:33.43 brlcad hmm, the versions are good, so should figure out what's up
18:33.45 ``Erik those're all awfully recent
18:33.55 brlcad can you get me a shell account?
18:34.06 brlcad that'd make this worlds easier
18:34.49 pra5ad no can do
18:34.58 brlcad ``Erik: yeah, i'm thinking that might be the problem if something was changed in a never version (or if it's a bonefide bug or a code assumption)
18:35.07 pra5ad u want config.log and points/Makefile ?
18:36.09 ``Erik cd src/mged/points ; make clean ; make 2>&1 > something ; /dcc send brlcad /path/too/src/mged/points/something
18:36.11 ``Erik ?
18:37.45 pra5ad blarg.. did distclean
18:37.48 pra5ad gimme a few
18:42.59 brlcad hmm BEP have a track that pra5ad should listen to
18:44.04 pra5ad 'shut up' ?
18:46.18 brlcad naope
18:48.27 pra5ad 'say goodbye' ?
18:48.37 brlcad nope
18:48.52 brlcad heh, nothing like that
18:48.56 pra5ad 'love wont wait' ?
18:51.10 pra5ad 'latin girls'
18:51.10 pra5ad mmm
18:51.50 brlcad it's in filipino
18:52.01 brlcad bebot
18:53.15 brlcad this might play it http://sg1.allmusic.com/cg/smp.dll?r=20.asx&link=qten59muiakp2xuyu23dxhg
18:53.22 pra5ad heard the itms preview
18:53.26 pra5ad whatd i miss
19:12.06 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-99-61.balt.east.verizon.net)
19:12.16 pra5ad_ grr
19:19.41 brlcad yay, real irc client
19:20.31 justin_ heh
19:25.28 pra5ad_ i was on this client b4..
19:30.38 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: disable the parse_points command conditionally depending on new configure checks for yacc/lex, output a message if it was disabled
19:31.10 pra5ad well the distclean + make fixed it
19:35.36 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: conditionally traverse into and link against the points subdirectory based on whether WITH_PARSERS was declared by configure after testing for yacc/lex.
19:41.32 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
19:41.32 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: add tests to determine whether we successfully found a system bison/flex
19:41.32 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: yacc/lex tool pair for making parsers. if either isn't found, the parsers that
19:41.33 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: are written to utilize them are disabled to prevent compile errors and a warning
19:41.33 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: is output. if they are availabe WITH_PARSERS is provided to the makefiles and
19:41.35 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: BC_WITH_PARSERS is defined for code to conditionally test against.
19:58.35 brlcad pra5ad: does your src/mged/points/points_parse.c have a previous_linebuffer declaration near the top (and a full/usual brl-cad header and #includes?)?
20:00.19 ``Erik "b4"? is 'efore' really that much more difficult to type than the r-tard style '4'? o.O
20:04.16 pra5ad brlcad, doesn't look like it
20:04.50 pra5ad has the brlcad header + #includes
20:05.12 brlcad what are the includes?
20:05.52 pra5ad extern char previous_linebuffer[]; (found this after the brlcad header)
20:06.13 pra5ad #include "common.h"
20:06.13 pra5ad #include <stdio.h>
20:06.13 pra5ad #include <stdlib.h>
20:06.13 pra5ad #include <string.h>
20:06.13 pra5ad #include "./count.h"
20:06.14 pra5ad #include "./process.h"
20:06.23 brlcad ah, so you DO have it :P
20:06.55 pra5ad eye-balled the stuff above the header =)
20:08.02 brlcad i think I see why it's complaining, but I can't fathom why they'd do that
20:08.40 brlcad or if that's even really what's going on
20:09.07 brlcad here's a better one, main.c -- you have an extern FILE *yyin; at the top yes?
20:10.33 pra5ad yes
20:13.59 brlcad then the errors make no sense
20:14.41 pra5ad well it does now (and i am able to compile it successfully)
20:14.46 pra5ad after the distclean
20:17.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: er, if BC_WITH_PARSERS is NOT defined..
20:37.00 pra5ad brlcad, http://pastebin.com/516529
20:37.14 pra5ad (g-nmg -b -o bot.g t62.g component)
20:42.01 brlcad ``Erik: updating freshmeat to .4 before updating to .6 just so you know
20:42.33 brlcad pra5ad: thanks, looking
20:48.10 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: ah, r may be null from td_r when traversing
20:48.27 brlcad pra5ad: ah, same crash, protected wrong var
20:48.30 brlcad try that
21:10.00 brlcad pra5ad: how's that?
21:10.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (11 files): a little less excitement about regions that evaluate to nothing, still report it if we're verbose a little more consistently.
21:10.37 pra5ad worked
21:11.00 brlcad did it convert correctly?
21:11.01 pra5ad Tried 1009 regions, 1005 converted successfully. 99.6036%
21:11.12 brlcad interesting..
21:11.49 brlcad try this, g-nmg without the -b, then nmg-bot instead
21:12.23 brlcad how many succeed without the -b too
21:13.17 pra5ad hmm in mged one of the left hubs is missing
21:13.28 pra5ad checking now
21:15.39 pra5ad got this:
21:15.44 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
21:15.44 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
21:15.44 pra5ad class_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face?
21:15.44 pra5ad bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler
21:15.45 pra5ad FAILED: /r728
21:18.19 brlcad try just that region by itself, does it succeed?
21:18.49 pra5ad waiting for component to finish
21:21.14 pra5ad Tried 1009 regions, 1006 converted successfully. 99.7027%
21:22.15 pra5ad Starting program: /usr/brlcad/bin/g-nmg -o t62nmg.g t62.g r728
21:22.16 pra5ad [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
21:22.16 pra5ad [New Thread -1214351680 (LWP 27581)]
21:22.16 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
21:22.16 pra5ad class_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face?
21:22.17 pra5ad bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler
21:22.18 pra5ad FAILED: /r728
21:22.19 brlcad that difference of 1 is the one that was causing the crash
21:22.20 pra5ad Tried 1 regions, 0 converted successfully. 0%
21:22.22 pra5ad Program exited normally.
21:22.24 pra5ad (gdb)
21:22.44 brlcad cool, so it's repeatable
21:23.01 pra5ad eh? the output both times compoleted successfully
21:23.07 pra5ad completed*
21:23.27 pra5ad the conversion i mean; without any crashes
21:25.49 brlcad well, not crashing doesn't mean it was "successful"
21:25.58 brlcad it should never crash
21:26.02 brlcad even if it can't convert
21:26.20 brlcad that crash was specific to the -b option, so nobody noticed
21:26.38 brlcad somehow it's a loopless non-empty shell
21:26.50 brlcad which shouldn't exist easily
21:28.03 pra5ad so the converted .g should be valid, albeit without the failed regions?
21:29.27 brlcad right
21:29.49 brlcad it that t62a perchance?
21:30.49 pra5ad no
21:30.57 pra5ad t62.g
21:30.59 pra5ad used in m3
21:32.13 clock_ what is t62 and m3? tanks?
21:33.52 brlcad t62 is a tank
21:33.53 brlcad m3 is an analysis package
21:33.53 pra5ad in a way; t62 IS a tank, while the other acts like one
21:33.53 brlcad heh
21:34.06 pra5ad running nmg on havoc
22:05.31 pra5ad good god havoc is still going
22:28.00 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:31.40 ``Erik heh
23:32.31 ``Erik I will not call muves-3 "m3", it would sully the awesomeness of my new machine.
23:32.35 ``Erik :D
23:34.01 ``Erik sean, there should probably be a brlcad release checklist... to make sure every little tidbit is done, no? (yeah, yeah, documented procedure... but the difference between this and the klugefuck of moronity at work is that we're documenting an existing procedure, not trying to dictate an imaginary procedure via documentation...)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060122

01:55.25 brlcad ``Erik: there already is one, has been one ever since it was open source
01:55.31 brlcad it's in the TODO file
01:55.42 brlcad includes checklists for the next two releases
01:56.18 brlcad oh, if you mean a checklist for stuff to do to actually _make_ the release, there exists that too -- wrote that up when it went open source too
01:56.36 brlcad look at the bottom of the HACKING file, you'll find itemized steps
02:42.46 ``Erik ah
02:42.59 ``Erik the itch I have is the freshmeat update
02:43.21 ``Erik every freakin' release is major enough to get a freshmeat update, imho
02:43.57 ``Erik also; in your directions, you forgot to mention buying erik a tasty beverage :D *duck*
04:58.16 phcoder cookie monster
05:25.40 justin_ mmm, I have half a ceiling and 2 recessed lights now
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09:53.48 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): there is no need/intent to modify the pkg_switch callback structure, so make it const
10:19.53 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libfb/pkgtypes.h include/fbmsg.h):
10:19.53 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: moved/renamed src/libfb/pkgtypes.h to include/fbmsg.h as it is used both by the
10:19.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: library (if_remote) and by the application (fbserv) for communicating; whether
10:19.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: it's considered a public header or a private header that fbserv happens to
10:19.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: understand is still up for debate
10:20.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fbserv_obj.c fbserv_obj_win32.c): change from HIDDEN to static, ws, use fbmsg.h
10:23.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/server.c fbserv/server.c): moved src/libfb/server.c to src/fbserv/server.c; the file contains the fbserv callbacks and the callback table used exclusively by fbserv.
10:26.24 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add fbmsg.h to the list of headers (but make it noinst)
10:27.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: by moving the framebuffer server switch table out of libfb and into fbserv directly, it no longer needs to be in fb.h, removing the fb.h interface coupling to pkg.h
10:36.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/pkgswitch.c: remove used switch file, seems like a dumbed down example of the fbserv switch table with just close and error. not really useful.
10:37.49 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: use fbmsg.h instead of pkgtypes.h (renamed and moved)
10:39.08 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: server.c was moved to src/fbserv/.; pkgswitch.c was removed entirely; pkgtypes.h was renamed to fbmsg.h and moved to include/.
10:40.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/ (fbserv.c fbserv_win.c): declare the fb_server_pkg_switch server callback switch table provided in server.c
10:41.17 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/Makefile.am: include server.c, moved from src/libfb to there
10:43.46 brlcad all that to fix one line in one interface header file
10:46.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ws
11:00.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.h: add header protection, include fbmsg.h
11:01.06 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: remove pkgtypes.h
11:30.14 *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
16:24.55 pra5ad hah
16:25.04 pra5ad slashdot has banned my ip
16:46.48 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=pra5ad@pool-151-196-29-122.balt.east.verizon.net)
17:36.49 ``Erik awesome
18:37.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (semaphore.c malloc.c): missing stdlib.h for malloc (only a few files that should be using malloc instead of bu_malloc)
18:38.06 brlcad lemme guess, rss feed updating too frequently
18:38.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vfont.c: use bu_malloc instead of malloc
18:45.00 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: common file size uses longs now
18:59.33 pra5ad no
18:59.45 pra5ad dsl has an ip pool
19:00.03 pra5ad one of them was banned i guess
19:00.16 pra5ad reset the modem (new ip); all's peachy
20:45.13 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.201.183)
21:15.42 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.201.183)
21:22.56 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/cmd.c: ws
21:23.48 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/hash.c: include stdlib.h for malloc (cannot use bu_malloc() as the hash table may be used for MEM_DEBUG)
23:28.50 pra5ad brlcad, how bout querying the # of bots under a top level obj
23:29.02 pra5ad dirwalk?
23:30.05 justin_ foshizzle
23:33.22 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: missing stdlib.h for atol
23:38.11 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (28 files): missing stddef.h for offsetof, convert references to offsetof to bu_offsetof
23:41.15 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/cmd.h: add header protections, conditionally include sys/time.h correctly
23:45.25 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove the need for HAVE_STDLIB_H and need for stdlib.h and stddef.h. instead, let files that use the offsetof macros include stdlib.h. don't need decls for malloc,calloc,realloc any more. provide bu_offsetof() macro
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060123

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060123

00:03.40 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: use bu_malloc and bu_free instead of malloc
00:05.10 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: use bu_malloc and bu_free instead of malloc
00:08.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_obj.c: use bu_calloc and bu_free instead of calloc
00:22.28 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
00:35.32 brlcad pra5ad: yeah, you'll want to make a dirtree
00:35.40 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (27 files): include stddef.h for bu_offset's usage of offset
00:36.52 brlcad there are several different ways to walk a geometry graph
00:37.29 brlcad db_functree() is probably the most simple, with a callback for leaf nodes (primitives) and for non-leaf nodes (combinations)
00:37.58 brlcad src/gtools/g_transfer.c has a simple example using that
00:39.23 brlcad db_walk_tree() is a little more powerful, with a region start and end callback in addition to the leaf callback
00:39.38 brlcad most of the converters in src/conv use that routine
00:42.23 brlcad if you only want to walk over the leaf nodes, db_tree_funcleaf() exists
00:43.51 brlcad the iges converter and mged have examples that use that one
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01:07.19 pra5ad how do u determine if a primitive is a bot
01:24.35 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/solid.c: convert to libbu memory management, removing the need for the memory allocation failure checking/handling
01:44.27 brlcad if you have an internal pointer you can check if ip->idb_type == ID_BOT
01:44.36 brlcad if you have a raw internal pointer, you can check ip->idb_minor_type != ID_BOT
02:00.29 brlcad here, an easier way:
02:00.45 brlcad FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START(dp, rtip->rti_dbip) {
02:00.48 brlcad <PROTECTED>
02:00.59 brlcad <PROTECTED>
02:01.12 brlcad <PROTECTED>
02:01.14 brlcad <PROTECTED>
02:01.15 brlcad }
02:08.29 brlcad FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END
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02:57.30 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/jack-g.c: convert to libbu memory management
03:04.35 ``Erik have you fixed the tesselator so if it tries to tesselate a bot, it just hands the geometry back?
03:14.52 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-vrml.c g-x3d.c): include stddef.h for bu_offset's usage of offset
03:15.22 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (asc-nmg.c asc2g.c dxf-g.c euclid-g.c g-adrt.c): convert to libbu memory management
03:28.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: how in the world did struct "vu_vls" compile?
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03:58.35 brlcad nope
04:06.30 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (rtshot.c sh_tcl.c viewweight.c worker.c): convert to libbu memory management
04:07.24 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: convert to libbu memory management
04:29.17 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: don't use INFINITY as it's a publicly defined macro usually, regardless, it's used as a clipping plane distance so call it that. increase it one order to a billion while we're at it.
04:37.04 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-ogl_win.c dm-pex.c): need stdlib.h for getenv()
04:45.31 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: convert to bu_malloc for all but one section so that it may fail gracefully
04:45.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/sh_temp.c: include stddef.h for bu_offsetof
05:02.34 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: stdlib.h for malloc and friends, not using libbu management as there is failure recovery code
05:04.14 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cat-fb.c: convert to libbu memory management
05:11.30 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/halftone/ (main.c tone_floyd.c): convert to libbu memory management
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06:05.08 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: update to use GED_MIN and GED_MAX
06:20.59 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: stdlib.h
06:32.42 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (Makefile.am clip.c): clip.c removed, being used from libdm like it should be
06:33.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c setup.c tedit.c): stdlib.h for alloc/getenv funcs
07:06.22 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (molecule.c pipe.c rawbot.c torii.c vegitation.c): use libbu memory allocation management, get rid of null checks
07:07.01 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: s/rt_malloc/bu_malloc
07:07.13 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: ws
07:07.46 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/command.c: stdlib.h
07:08.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/ (anim_fly.c anim_track.c): libbu for memory management
07:09.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/trie.c: stdlib.h
07:10.30 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (texture.c reflect.c mat_db.c lgt_db.c): libbu for memory management
07:11.34 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (ir.c octree.c execshell.c): stdlib.h
07:11.44 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/hmenu.c: use bu_malloc
07:13.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/showtherm.c: use M_PI instead of PI, VUNITIZE_TOL instead of TOL, and libbu memory management
07:15.20 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (secpass.c firpass.c): libbu memory allocation management
07:16.25 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/all_sf.c: use M_PI instead of PI, VDIVIDE_TOL instead of ZTOL, and libbu memory management
07:18.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: quell some warnings
07:21.25 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_track.c: s/nmu/num/ transpose
07:24.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: STATIC to static
07:26.44 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/firpass.c: missing arg to bu_free
07:29.35 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: stdlib.h for getenv
07:31.57 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/protocol.h: header protection, use bu_offsetof
07:32.21 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: add stddef.h for bu_offsetof
07:35.37 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: stdlib.h for atoi()
07:36.04 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:38.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-ppm.c: libbu for allocations
07:39.10 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-yuv.c: libbu for allocations
07:42.22 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixbgstrip.c: libbu for allocations
07:43.27 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixborder.c: libbu for allocations
07:44.36 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixcut.c: libbu for allocations
07:46.15 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixpaste.c: libbu for allocations
07:48.31 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (terrain.c texturescale.c yuv-pix.c): libbu for allocations
07:52.11 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-ppm.c: missing end quote
07:54.35 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: use atol instaed of atoi
10:53.03 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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15:17.21 pra5ad_work brlcad
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16:32.52 pra5ad_work if gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -DBEHIND_ME_TOL=0.05 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -O3 -MT lgt-texture.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo" -c -o lgt-texture.o `test -f 'texture.c' || echo './'`texture.c; \then mv -f ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo" ".deps/lgt-texture.Po"; else rm -f ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo"; exit 1; fitexture.c: In function `init_Icon_Texture':texture.c:133:
17:44.59 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Added the following new files: db_flags.c and db_inmem.c
17:47.10 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fbserv/fbserv.vcproj: Added server.c
17:50.47 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libfb/libfb.vcproj: Removed server.c
17:54.56 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv_win.c: Include fbmsg.h instead of libfb/pkgtypes.h. Provide declarations for routines that live in server.c
17:57.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: Provide declarations for variables that live in server.c
18:02.46 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: Removed declaration of variables from server.c
18:04.02 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: Declare db5_export_attributes().
20:11.53 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/lgt/texture.c: call to malloc() had the signature of a call to bu_malloc(). Fixed to call bu_malloc().
20:28.07 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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22:01.32 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-60-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:38.38 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: include stdlib.h so that atof is known to return a double
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060124

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060124

01:55.27 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
01:55.27 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
02:07.22 *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
03:54.19 justin_ mmm drywall
03:56.29 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:09.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: missing the declaration for db5_export_attributes()
04:11.42 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: don't need the db5_export_attributes extern decl as it's now in raytrace.h like it should have been
04:25.05 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: use the FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END macros for iterating over the array of linked list of directory nodes.
04:31.17 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: convert iteration over the array of linked lists to FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END instead
04:44.50 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:45.36 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: the external isn't const, but the avs is (db5_export_attributes)
05:00.58 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): convert iteration over the array of linked list of directory nodes to FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END instead
07:31.33 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-60-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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15:44.53 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: Remove USE_SURVICE_MODS ifdef/endif that was guarding a fflush in db_write().
15:46.06 clock_ brlcad: hi
17:19.44 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: add the verbose flag so that warnings/errors are apparent
17:22.03 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
17:22.33 clock_ DTRemenak: hi
17:22.40 clock_ DTRemenak: in which city is caltech?
17:25.25 brlcad clock_: howdy
17:25.44 clock_ brlcad: hi
17:26.12 brlcad how goes things far far away?
17:27.08 clock_ forward
17:27.09 clock_ :D
17:27.50 clock_ where is caltech actually?
17:28.49 brlcad california
17:29.01 clock_ what a surprise! :)
17:29.14 clock_ But which city?
17:29.24 brlcad heh
17:29.39 brlcad pasadena
17:31.46 brlcad los angeles
17:31.55 brlcad san diego, san jose, san fran.
17:32.14 brlcad long beach, sacramento, long beach, oakland, anaheim ;)
17:33.17 brlcad fresno, santa ana.. hmm
17:34.07 brlcad that's about 10 million people probably, closer to 20 if you include the suburbs
17:34.35 clock_ santa monica and venice
17:36.02 brlcad famous places, but don't hold a stick up to the other cities population-wise
17:36.31 clock_ why are they famous?
17:37.17 brlcad not even 100k people if I had to guess in santa monica
17:37.17 clock_ I come from Prague and Prague has 1.2M
17:37.17 clock_ so everything under 1.2M is a village for me :)
17:37.20 brlcad ritzy tourist attraction places often found in movies, quirky culture blendings ;)
17:37.34 clock_ that's exact description
17:37.55 clock_ what does ritzy mean?
17:38.04 brlcad expensive
17:38.12 brlcad fancy
17:38.48 clock_ A spirit of medieval evil
17:40.13 brlcad woot, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California
17:40.26 brlcad table half-way
17:42.36 clock_ Prague is to cities what Jet Set Willy or Go To Hell is to computer games
17:42.47 clock_ bizarre.
17:47.55 clock_ some of the CA views are impressive
17:51.17 clock_ I like the stack crossing
17:51.27 clock_ Caltrans :)
18:13.45 clock_ brlcad: hehe, BRL-CAD logo is just Dogtown Skateboards logo with the cross replaced with eagle's body ;-)
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20:13.46 *** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-148-253.esr.east.verizon.net)
20:16.20 raz brlcad: I downloaded the windows version of brlcad and the brlcad.dsw will not load the *.dsp files. It states the makefiles were not generated by developer studio.
20:37.58 raz brlcad: solution seems to be re-save the *.dsp files when opened in a text editor.
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21:09.08 brlcad heh
21:16.35 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
23:21.55 *** join/#brlcad ctj2 (n=ctj@192.55.203.132)
23:22.18 ctj2 Hello, is Sean here and awake?
23:39.16 brlcad hey, long time..
23:39.27 brlcad haven't seen any commits from you yet ;)
23:39.53 ctj2 That's because I'm writing to much code for Max. I still use the cad software whenever I can.
23:40.19 ctj2 I'm actually a GPU programmer now. Shhhh, don't let any of the CSG people hear that.
23:40.20 brlcad how've you been? other than slave coding for Max
23:40.28 brlcad heh
23:40.49 ctj2 Pretty good. My GF had twins november 1st. Michael and Mikayla. (Mike 1 and Mike 2)
23:40.50 brlcad actually.. we got a few graphics cards here to test out some ideas on them using gpgpu techniques
23:41.03 brlcad hah, excellent!
23:41.07 brlcad congratulations
23:41.11 ctj2 Thank you.
23:41.45 ctj2 I came looking for the answer to a very off topic question. What the heck do we call the programs that are internal to the cpu? Machine code? Microcode?
23:42.31 brlcad either/both work depending on the context
23:42.54 ctj2 I need to differniciated it from the opcodes that are generated by the assembler.
23:43.08 ctj2 I hate lossing vocab.
23:43.08 brlcad microcode directly controls the processor
23:43.18 ctj2 Thanks, that's the word I was looking for.
23:43.19 brlcad usually machine code equates to several microcode instructions
23:44.09 ctj2 exactly. One of the big problems I'm dealing with right now is educating people. Some of them have no programming experence. Some have no computer science. Worse still, some of our programmers are good programmers with no CS behind it.
23:44.14 brlcad microcode being hardwired on most non-mainframe computers
23:45.25 brlcad yeah, odd that you have to explain that to someone though ;)
23:45.52 brlcad unless you're trying to explain graphics processor programming
23:46.10 ctj2 The problem is how do you explain the difference between OOP from structured design from structured programming and what the power of each is.
23:46.19 brlcad unless you're actually writing micro/machine code for gpus :)
23:46.30 brlcad very carefully
23:46.32 brlcad :)
23:46.36 ctj2 *grins*
23:47.05 ctj2 Yes, very carefully. I have to deal with people that get cought up in the term of the day, without understanding why and what it means.
23:47.50 ctj2 My latest battle was somebody that required me to use a factory to get an instance that was then so specific that there was no way for that factory to deliver anything other than that one instance.
23:48.46 ctj2 Or people that seem to feel that every class they write is so spectacular and individualized that it belongs in its own library.
23:48.48 ctj2 *grump*
23:51.30 ctj2 So what have you been up to?
23:55.08 ``Erik classes suck
23:55.35 ctj2 Now that leads me to ask the question: OOP classes or collage classes?
23:55.52 ``Erik ood/oop
23:56.01 ``Erik at least, the laughable mockery c++ and java make of classes
23:56.09 ``Erik objc seems interesting, smalltalk is nice
23:56.56 ctj2 Classes/objects in of themselves do not suck. The concept is very powerful. It is a tool that even dinos like myself have to embrace at some point.
23:58.11 ``Erik I was converted into being a big oo fan in '94 or '95, after over 10 years of other shtuff, then got some serious C fu going and realized that c++ buys you nothing but some syntatic sugar that is inappropriate at least 95% of the time
23:58.46 ``Erik I was lukewarm on ruby 6 yrs ago, but smalltalk has me much more appreciative as of a couple yrs ago
23:58.46 ``Erik :)
23:58.59 ``Erik but I still contend that c++ and java are just plain bad.
23:59.54 ctj2 As an example:
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060125

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060125

00:00.28 ``Erik hmmm, smalltalk predates c++ by a good chunk
00:00.30 ctj2 When we were first programming, "structure programming" was introduced. IF-THEN-ELSEIF-ELSE-ENDIF type structures.
00:00.41 ``Erik and the 'actor' model scheme was designed around was a form of oop in retrospect
00:01.11 ``Erik we've had mechanisms to talk about it, but the 'common' line programmer was unable to get there :(
00:01.40 ctj2 Even though the concept of SP was there, it took a number of years till we could talk about it. The concept that was required was "blocks". Then came structured designe with "functional units" and now we have objects.
00:02.00 ctj2 but until we have good UML, Usecases that match we had no real way of speaking OOP.
00:03.00 ``Erik don't mind me, I'm a fan of esoteric languages and a major scheme weenie :)
00:03.34 ``Erik hm, plenty of usability was available in far cleaner languages very early on... but paradigm shifts are hard, so most people avoid them like the plague
00:04.11 ctj2 I program in scheme, lisp, fortran, C, C++, php, perl and likely a dozen other languages. We can't have a paradigm shift until we have a human language or vocabulary to discuss the concepts.
00:04.37 ``Erik was it kay that made the comment about people who first learned basic being permanently damaged beyond repair? :)
00:05.09 ``Erik (I'm also quite angsty because I'm stuck working on a very poorly architected java program at work...)
00:05.10 ctj2 Hmmm, I guess that means Mike was damage beyond repair. I'll follow his programming lead for now.
00:05.41 ``Erik heh, basic was my first language, on the coleco adam when it was shiney and new... but I'm a happy retard
00:06.21 ``Erik my point was that paradigm shifts are hard, they serve well to weed out the chaff, which is a majority of people, imho
00:07.09 ctj2 ``Erik, when you say you are working on a "poorly architected java program" I submit that any program in any language can be poorly architected. Where we get many many bad architected systems is when there is a technical change that requires a new methodology which people can't speak about for lack of human language.
00:07.10 ``Erik people who have made the jump to really grok and become proficient with functional and logical languages can walk back to imperative and oo oh so much stronger, but I've seen very few who do
00:08.13 ctj2 I'd agree with that.
00:08.18 ``Erik perhaps, but I view c++'s variant of oo as a major step back... hey, man, bust out the smalltalk, ruby, ocaml, etc, and I'm right there :)
00:08.38 ``Erik (I'm not hatin' on OO in general, just the most common mutilation...)
00:08.51 ``Erik sorry if I gave the wrong impression
00:09.15 ctj2 Stop worrying about the language and worry about the concepts. People have been doing objected oriented programming long before smalltalk and C++ and java showed up on the scene.
00:09.49 ctj2 If you can't take your good OO concepts and impliment them in the languge of the day, then is that a failure of the language or the programmer?
00:10.15 ``Erik heh, some languages make it very very very difficult, but it's the fault of the programmer, of course :)
00:10.41 ``Erik I do a good chunk of oo-ey stuff in my C, so... yeah, we had a minor language mismatch, and I think it was my fault o.O
00:11.10 ctj2 One of the first good examples of OO that I observed was librt/table.c
00:12.17 ``Erik sean, are you still at the office?
00:13.11 ctj2 If you look at the history of teaching computer science, you can see the instructors using cobol/fortran to teach a *language* to the students. Then N.W. brought out Pascal and the instructors were capable of teaching SP with a strong stack oriented language. The schools then produced many programmers that could only do SP.
00:13.39 ``Erik indeed
00:14.00 ctj2 When they were handed a different language, Fortran IV, ASM, COMPASS they were lost. The language did not have the structures they needed. And the students didn't know how to build those structures.
00:14.04 ``Erik and now colleges turn out java factory line toilers :(
00:14.55 ctj2 One of my luck outs was that I was taught how to create a structured programming language (compiler course). And when you walk out of that, you realize that structure programming is mearly the correct locations of gotos. *GRIN*
00:15.18 ctj2 The big problem with pascal programmers is that pascal was a teaching language, not a production language.
00:16.00 ctj2 We cheated, we just did the Linked lists in COMPASS (CDC Cyber750 Assembly)
00:16.25 ``Erik cool
00:16.27 ctj2 Java is a great teaching language. The problem is when you teach a *language* vs the science and art of programming.
00:17.14 ``Erik ayup... I dislike the excessive verbosity of java, tho
00:17.29 ``Erik and I seem to spend too much time trying to look up api calls instead of thinking about the problem I want to solve
00:17.32 ctj2 Which brings me back to my original point, the *language* that needs to be taught before Java is UML or equivlent. Then you can teach the concepts and impliment those concepts in Java (or any other language)
00:17.51 ``Erik heh, just hit newbie students with SICP
00:17.57 ctj2 The only way that I get good productivity in java is with an IDE.
00:18.01 ctj2 Expand SICP.
00:18.13 ``Erik structure and interpretation of computer programs
00:18.23 ctj2 *grins* Ah, a course name.
00:18.28 ``Erik ummm, http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/
00:18.30 ``Erik a book, too
00:18.39 ctj2 Ok. let me bookmark.
00:19.13 ctj2 Done.
00:19.34 ``Erik when I code (java), I end up having 'idea' open on one display to look around and let it show me methods, and vim on the other one to actually express
00:19.59 ctj2 *grins* I've been using Netbeans for my java toys
00:20.09 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
00:20.52 ``Erik I have hope that sisc will help me be productive in java...
00:20.59 ctj2 It upsets my fingers though. I type ctrl-a, ctrl-o, tab and the program I was writing is GONE.
00:21.04 ``Erik http://sisc.sourceforge.net/
00:22.32 ctj2 Is PrezKennedy chuck?
00:22.52 ``Erik his boy, iirc
00:23.22 brlcad oop, sorry -- Yes i am
00:23.39 ctj2 Ah, thanks
00:23.46 ``Erik didja see justins new truck? o.O
00:23.55 ``Erik I think I started a trend :D
00:24.12 ``Erik (or did you, with that chevy...)
00:24.58 PrezKennedy dad would probably join irc as kermit if he figured it out ;-)
00:25.41 ctj2 More likely, Chuck is busy playing video games and has no time for IRC dorks. *GRIN*
00:26.39 Twingy where's the link to the 7 levels of IRC....
00:26.42 brlcad yep I did
00:27.16 brlcad hehe, kermit is still playing games
00:27.33 ``Erik twingy: google? :D
00:27.38 Twingy can't find it
00:27.40 brlcad though I almost passed out when I heard he wasn't just playing tribes any more
00:27.53 ctj2 What's his current addiction?
00:27.53 ``Erik WHAT???
00:27.55 Twingy I think foodave posted it in '00
00:28.04 PrezKennedy hes been playing command and conquer games since we got a computer
00:28.27 ``Erik that's it, I'm crapping in your mac tomorrow
00:28.28 brlcad if you can't handle the firepower, don't handle the gun ;)
00:28.31 PrezKennedy he also plays total annihilation and... well thats bout all that works on his computer
00:28.35 ctj2 Hey there. Don't pick on the boy, he just picked up some bad habits.
00:28.58 Twingy sean will have to get a quad mac if you do that
00:29.01 ``Erik ask mike t, I'm always ripping on c++
00:29.44 brlcad heh, punt the G5 because of your video card? get a new video card ;)
00:30.05 ctj2 No, not because of the video card. Mac OS X does not support NV_OPTION_3
00:30.12 ctj2 The video card does.
00:30.15 Twingy leave ##opengl
00:30.41 brlcad ahh, driver
00:30.45 ``Erik check it out, dudes, the 'project' takes about 3 seconds total for both the raytracing and the algorithms... for the 100x100x10 of that thing, right... but the total run time is... between 1 and 2 hours, depending on luck :)
00:30.47 ctj2 Yes drivers.
00:31.28 ``Erik when I bitched, nvidia put out new fbsd drivers to support the card I have... mebbe if you bitch about the option, they'll update the mac driver?
00:31.46 ctj2 To paraphrase NVIDIA: It is Apples problem.
00:32.07 ``Erik most of my cohorts at apple fled :(
00:32.08 brlcad any experience with Cg or the GPGPU project?
00:33.52 brlcad what about "Sh" ?
00:33.53 ``Erik oh, btw, I think nvidia has a pack of knuckleheads working over there, they don't understand ioctls so good :(
00:34.01 ctj2 Cg and the other one compile to a profile which the drivers then interpret. I can write my code in Cg if I wanted to but then the drivers eat it. Same with Sh."
00:35.09 brlcad not as nearly interested in Cg as the other two, mainly due to portability -- sort of waiting to see which one falls into better favor
00:36.46 PrezKennedy http://flickr.com/photos/92579619@N00/86410009/in/pool-tuawrigs/
00:36.51 PrezKennedy i saw that and thought of you brlcad
00:38.05 brlcad heh
00:38.11 brlcad i wish i had a canon xl
00:38.24 ``Erik heh
00:38.28 PrezKennedy it makes your setup look cheap and mine look like its from the late 1970's
00:38.39 ``Erik that dell isn't nearly hidden enough.
00:38.45 ``Erik and where's the ion globe??? :D
00:38.50 brlcad yeah, that's like a wart on the floor
00:39.34 ``Erik btw, are you gonna want your fancyassed dell back soon? I know how much you adore and miss it...
00:39.36 ``Erik O:-)
00:40.04 ctj2 ``Erik, here's my programming bible: http://www.60bits.net/STRAPs.pdf
00:40.13 ctj2 Pay attention to section 9
00:40.30 Twingy straps doesn't sound office friendly
00:40.34 Twingy maybe my mind is just in the gutter
00:40.47 ctj2 System Tasks, Procedures and Responsibilities
00:40.48 brlcad heh
00:40.54 Twingy suuuure
00:41.06 ``Erik or else what?
00:41.31 Twingy Saddist Tickle Ravis Attractive Posture
00:41.35 ctj2 No or else. Take a look, you might find it interesting history.
00:42.25 Twingy what happened to the 151?
00:42.33 brlcad ctj2: interesting document
00:42.34 ``Erik drank it long ago
00:42.47 Twingy gonna try white lightning now?
00:42.56 ``Erik no
00:42.59 ``Erik can't afford jack shit
00:43.02 ``Erik much less jack daniels
00:43.06 ctj2 Thank you. I helped write parts of that document. The entire group had input going from 9.3 to 9.4
00:43.13 Twingy I hear jack shit is on sale at coscov's for 99 cents a bottle
00:43.22 ``Erik lee suggested I drive tomorrow, I suggested he buy my lunch, he didn't say no :o
00:43.32 Twingy I think he wants to cook us ramen
00:43.51 ctj2 Ok, Sean who are these people, they sound like they all hang out at the lab.
00:43.54 ``Erik I think he wants to take me somewhere and get me drunk so he can drive my damn car back :(
00:44.13 ``Erik we have no lab anymore :(
00:44.22 PrezKennedy its a shack
00:44.30 PrezKennedy shack(s)
00:45.02 ``Erik shut up, bitch
00:45.03 ``Erik :D
00:45.18 brlcad ctj2: of various sorts -- you'd see them if you visited, don't think you know any of them
00:45.28 brlcad cept PrezKennedy of course ;)
00:45.35 PrezKennedy its supposed to get windy tonight... be careful ;-)
00:45.47 brlcad PrezKennedy: you saying you ate beans?
00:46.00 PrezKennedy taco bell
00:46.01 ctj2 Thanks brlcad. I do miss the lab, lots at times.
00:46.01 PrezKennedy ;-)
00:46.03 ``Erik indeed, it will be windy
00:47.42 Twingy drink some more so you can pass out and we can come take your chili
00:48.08 ``Erik I am drinking some more...
00:48.12 PrezKennedy then there'll be hurricane force winds
00:48.31 ``Erik I'm not sure if you can handle the onion content, tho
00:48.35 Twingy from erik drinking?
00:48.45 Twingy I don't think he gets gas like that dude
00:48.57 Twingy lee maybe...
00:49.00 ``Erik no, mine is a soft and gentle breeze
00:49.06 ``Erik that carries death and misery
00:49.10 PrezKennedy nah after everyone else starts contributing once they get ahold of the chili
00:49.39 ``Erik a tiny little pfft in the hall and poor justin whines about it from his desk in the corner :D
00:50.35 brlcad ctj2: so with much lamenting and sadness, kicking screaming, and gnashing of teeth -- we're a few weeks away from a windows distribution
00:50.45 PrezKennedy cool
00:50.49 Twingy I bet if I ate some sauurkraut each day for lunch
00:51.01 ``Erik ooh, we should go to the german place if it's still around
00:51.08 Twingy yep
00:51.17 ``Erik bratwurst, sauerkraut, mashed pertaters, and good german beer
00:51.38 brlcad it's still around
00:51.44 ``Erik we should make lee drive so we can get fitshaced
00:51.46 brlcad though i'm hankering for some corral
00:52.09 brlcad tried going saturday, there wasn't a single parking spot, even illegal ones
00:52.09 ``Erik it'll make s2 much more bearable for ya, justin ;)
00:52.18 ``Erik at what, corral?
00:52.32 ``Erik guess their new location is workin' for 'em :)
00:52.59 ``Erik dude, they're putting in an applebees where the old one was
00:53.10 brlcad yeah, the line went out both doors
00:53.17 ctj2 brlcad, should I be happy or sad about a windows release?
00:53.27 brlcad it's a good bad
00:53.40 brlcad the download rate and exposure is going to skyrocket
00:53.49 PrezKennedy and i can use it!
00:53.52 ``Erik heh, is the breakage bob gave us with that all fixed up?
00:53.55 brlcad estimating 2-5k downloads a month
00:54.01 brlcad (for just windows)
00:54.38 brlcad ``Erik: pretty much -- i think I've weeded it all away finally
00:54.53 ``Erik 'k, so I can start breaking it for fbsd and obsd again
00:54.58 brlcad archer is still non-functional, but that was pretty much to be expected
00:55.00 Twingy haha, breakage bob
00:55.16 ``Erik "dude, bob, when we said 'break it down', that AIN'T what we meant!"
00:55.30 Twingy fat fingered fred
00:56.15 PrezKennedy fgat fiongers suick!!!
00:56.33 ``Erik and that's why prezkennedy is never ever ever EVER allowed to be a sysadmin
01:01.13 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: argv0 is not available for some reason, so catch the exception and conditionally call LoadArcherLibs
01:01.13 PrezKennedy with that type of stress... may as well be the sysadmin's boss... he gets paid more
01:02.16 ``Erik the massive paychecks, awe and respect of puny mortals, sexy models on my arm...
01:02.17 ``Erik well
01:02.20 ``Erik the paychecks, anyways
01:02.41 PrezKennedy you were the master of your domain... in a way
01:03.12 ``Erik "I am master of my dominion... I share the secrets of the clown"
01:13.38 Twingy *archer fires arrow at thee in retaliation*
01:13.57 Twingy HACK THE GIBSON!#@!
01:14.05 Twingy o.O
01:14.33 Twingy why couldn't they have had angelina say that line >_<
01:18.28 PrezKennedy farewell... for now!
01:18.36 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: more protections to avoid the can't read "env(ARCHER_HOME)": no such variable error when making the package index
01:19.48 ``Erik heh
01:35.15 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: make the other pkg_index error go away regarding: can't set "::blt::cursorWaitCount": parent namespace doesn't exist
01:47.49 pra5ad gpu programming eh
01:49.12 Twingy generic parental unit
01:49.42 pra5ad were u at the bnd seminar?
01:49.50 Twingy I was buying a truck
01:50.00 Twingy :P
01:50.05 pra5ad ah i missed that
01:50.28 pra5ad overhyping to the maxxxxxxxx
01:51.08 Twingy was she passing out coffee mugs?
01:55.40 pra5ad felt like it
01:56.09 Twingy you get hit in the head with a coffee mug?
01:56.25 pra5ad felt like it
01:56.31 Twingy haha
02:06.49 ``Erik heh
02:07.00 Twingy how was the onions?
02:07.04 ``Erik tomorrow, I think I'm gonna try to give her an idea of how horribly bad our shit is
02:07.05 ``Erik tasty
02:07.17 Twingy I think you should talk her into putting the logo on coffee mugs
02:07.41 ``Erik we have software that does a task... the task being doen using the software itself takes... 3 seconds. The software as a whole takes... 1-2 hrs
02:08.05 Twingy ...and if you had coffee mugs you'd have something to do while its running
02:08.28 ``Erik 0.083% of our runtime is... useful.
02:08.33 ``Erik tops
02:08.39 Twingy and 0.083% of our management is useful :}
02:08.49 ``Erik that many?
02:08.49 ``Erik :D
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02:13.52 pra5ad so the interact #s made sense?
02:15.08 ``Erik I think so
02:15.34 ``Erik I'd like to string the rt to the interactor, or do a timeing experiment higher up, or something..
02:16.26 Twingy I'd like to build robotic monkies to make me ham sandwiches
02:16.39 ``Erik even if the #'s aren't very close, the preliminary is over 1000x difference, dude...
02:16.55 Twingy orders shmorders of magnitude
02:17.05 Twingy here's a theory
02:17.17 pra5ad heh
02:17.21 Twingy maybe dixie is some kinda cyborg that doesn't age
02:17.31 Twingy and so run times are irrelevent o.O
02:17.46 Twingy like the replicators y0
02:20.02 ``Erik heh
02:20.50 Twingy I think we should all get extra jobs at home depot on saturdays
02:20.53 Twingy then when we slack off
02:20.59 Twingy we don't tell on each other
02:21.26 Twingy Home Depot / M3 team
02:25.18 ``Erik erm
02:25.23 ``Erik I'm not calling it 'm3' anymore
02:25.29 ``Erik I refuse to sully the name of my vehicle
02:25.36 pra5ad too late
02:26.08 pra5ad should have bought the m4.. 'better than m3 in more ways than one'
02:26.18 ``Erik been reading on that just now
02:26.23 ``Erik m4 is just the '06 m3 coupe
02:26.33 Twingy hah
02:26.48 Twingy then his car would have to have a regular expression parser in the engine computer
02:26.49 brlcad original pranksta
02:26.56 Twingy YOU CAN DOIT!
02:27.00 ``Erik uh huh, uh huh
02:27.15 ``Erik damn we're a pack of nerds
02:28.35 phcoder oonter geleebin gloatin glovin
02:29.06 pra5ad brlcad,
02:29.26 pra5ad how do i drill down a directory struct
02:29.44 pra5ad (i think u answered this already.. /me has bad memory)
02:31.47 brlcad what do you mean by drill down?
02:32.35 pra5ad iterate over all nodes in the dir
02:32.43 brlcad ah, traverse the nodes for a particular assembly
02:32.44 pra5ad what were the fns/where are they
02:32.48 brlcad yeah, I did answer that :)
02:32.55 pra5ad which header
02:33.06 brlcad heh, raytrace.h ;)
02:33.13 brlcad but that won't get you very far
02:33.17 brlcad what do you need to do?
02:33.23 brlcad do you care about intermediate combinations?
02:33.29 brlcad or just the leaf nodes?
02:33.50 pra5ad for later yes, but for now just the leaves will do
02:34.17 pra5ad also, what's the point of DIR_HIDDEN
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02:34.47 pra5ad and the difference between DIR_SOLID/REGION/COMB
02:35.17 brlcad db_functree() is probably the easiest for you to use, keeping it simple when you do decide to look at the intermediates
02:35.37 pra5ad ahh yes
02:35.46 brlcad geometry in a .g can be hidden so you don't see it in listings
02:36.10 pra5ad there's no special signficance? it's user discretion?
02:36.10 brlcad can be used as a means to manage intermediate objects being edited for example
02:37.27 brlcad it's got meaning, it means it's hidden so applications are expected to respect the hidden and ignore those objects unless you're a command/operation that wants/needs to manage hidden objects
02:37.44 brlcad e.g. ls command needs to ignore hidden objects
02:38.34 brlcad but a database converter wouldn't necessarily want to ignore them
02:38.46 brlcad it's app discretion -- not user discretion :)
02:38.55 brlcad for you, probably should ignore them
02:38.57 pra5ad k
02:39.17 brlcad a solid is a primitive, e.g. a BOT or a sphere or an arb, etc
02:39.24 brlcad er, a DIR_SOLID
02:39.49 brlcad a DIR_REGION is a combination that has been marked as a region
02:39.57 brlcad a region signifies "something physical"
02:40.15 brlcad it'd be a "part" in pro/e unigraphics lingo
02:41.01 brlcad combinations are just that -- some csg combination of objects (other combinations, regions, or solids)
02:41.20 pra5ad g-nmg preserves em?
02:41.33 brlcad preserves?
02:41.43 pra5ad the comb nodes
02:41.52 pra5ad tho that doesnt make sense..
02:41.57 brlcad you can have combination nodes above and below the region level
02:42.13 brlcad the converter collapses the nodes below the region level iirc
02:42.54 brlcad above the region level, they are expected to just be unions (i.e. "collections" or groups)
02:43.13 brlcad below the region level, they can be arbitrary CSG operations (subtractions, unions, intersections)
02:43.19 pra5ad ah
02:44.10 ``Erik I need a new furry helmet
02:46.04 Twingy now that you got a sun roof
02:46.10 Twingy you can wear one of those beer hats
02:46.43 pra5ad is it legal to specify a NULL functor as the comb node callback?
02:51.51 pra5ad guess it works
02:51.52 pra5ad =)
02:53.44 pra5ad t62 has 1004 bots :o
02:54.16 Twingy the csg version mebe
02:54.28 pra5ad no, g-nmg converted
02:54.37 Twingy that aint ryte
02:54.46 pra5ad leaves are always of type DIR_SOLID ?
02:54.57 pra5ad leafs
02:54.58 pra5ad ..
02:55.39 pra5ad havoc-bot has 297 meshes
02:55.43 pra5ad er bots
02:55.52 Twingy ohh bots
02:55.58 Twingy yea, that's right
02:56.48 pra5ad oh?
03:09.14 ctj2 Good night all.
03:15.35 brlcad pra5ad: yeah, that's like the definition of a leaf
03:17.30 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: i suppose only one of the tk files wasn't needed due to conflicts.. the others seem rather important due to runtime symbol errors.. ;)
03:17.33 pra5ad check my priv msg
03:19.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: load the blt library by getting lib out of the bu_brlcad_root path.. need to refactor this puppy, but it should work irrespective of the other stuff
03:20.24 brlcad it's a list of references to the leaf
03:20.43 brlcad can be referenced n times, don't think that's what you want
03:20.46 pra5ad so how would i get the soltab from a dp?
03:21.11 brlcad hm, i pasted code for that too
03:21.21 brlcad you convert to 'internal' format
03:21.32 brlcad for starters
03:21.42 pra5ad the dp to internal?
03:22.25 brlcad rt_db_get_internal( &intern, dp, dbip, NULL, &rt_uniresource )
03:22.45 brlcad pass it the dp, your dbip, and an internal structure for it to fill in
03:23.12 brlcad struct rt_db_internal intern;
03:23.33 brlcad rt_uniresource is a global, you should be able to use it as is
03:23.43 brlcad (provided by the library)
03:24.06 brlcad unless you want to handle multithreaded (which wouldn't help you much for an rt_db_get_internal())
03:25.17 brlcad if you've already determined it's a bot, you can cast the intern.idb_ptr after rt_db_get_internal() to a bot internal
03:25.39 pra5ad ah
03:25.45 brlcad e.g. struct rt_bot_internal *bot = (struct rt_bot_internal *)intern.idb_ptr;
03:26.08 brlcad that "is" an actual bot, deserialized in all it's internal glory
03:26.33 pra5ad righto =)
03:36.56 pra5ad nooo
03:37.07 pra5ad how do i determine if it's a bot
03:37.16 pra5ad before the cast
03:37.37 pra5ad soltab has a type_id
03:38.30 pra5ad ohhh nm
03:38.32 pra5ad ;)
03:38.49 pra5ad rt_db_get_internal returns the type id
04:02.03 pra5ad how do i close a db created by rt_dirbuild? i'm doing rt_clean(rtip*) , but when i reopen it w/ rt_dirbuild, db_dircheck whines about duplicates
04:02.27 pra5ad also, why not use the db_* funcs?
04:03.22 pra5ad im looking at g-xxx.c; seems simple enough
04:12.09 brlcad db_close(dbip);
04:12.21 brlcad nothing wrong with the db_ funcs
04:12.28 brlcad they work hand in hand with the rt funcs
04:12.52 pra5ad k so rt_clean is wrong
04:15.46 brlcad rt_clean() is for deallocating per-cpu resources, nothing at all to do with directories
04:16.04 brlcad has to do with raytracing data management (e.g. prep'd data)
05:21.22 justin_ http://www.reputable.com/o2.html
05:21.35 justin_ look for initials JS, circa 1999 :)
06:36.23 *** join/#brlcad kaol_ (n=kari@sammakko.yok.utu.fi)
08:17.13 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
08:50.13 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:05.41 brlcad heh, The core dumped, oh my.
11:10.01 clock_ china syndrome
11:30.44 *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
11:54.58 ``Erik o.O
14:13.05 Twingy lunch time yet?
14:31.09 Twingy you should come to grumpies with us
14:31.35 ``Erik who all is 'us'?
14:31.46 Twingy um, me and uh, you, and uh others :)
14:31.59 ``Erik heh
14:32.17 ``Erik <-- got up at 4am and ran budget numbers o.O bein' po' sucks
14:32.28 Twingy eww
14:32.40 Twingy 4am... that's like 3 hours after I went to bed
14:32.43 ``Erik also watched new rvb and strangerhood
14:32.54 ``Erik heh, it was 4 hours after I went to bed...
14:33.03 ``Erik just couldn't get back to sleep :/
14:33.14 Twingy I bet it was the onions
14:33.25 ``Erik doubt it
14:33.46 Twingy the onions stole your car and drove away with your wallet
14:33.58 Twingy :)
14:34.11 Twingy you just don't remember any of this
14:34.36 ``Erik they musta hit me over the head with the bag of potatos next to 'em
14:35.00 ``Erik mmm potato juice
14:35.11 Twingy you should try making vodka
14:35.24 ``Erik that's a little illegal without a license
14:35.36 Twingy ah
14:37.01 Twingy and if you make it wrong you go blind :)
14:37.08 clock_ The Original Onions?
14:37.17 clock_ That's a surf rock band that produces freely distributable music
14:37.36 clock_ Actually very good one
18:23.14 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
18:40.09 *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@12.22.249.3)
18:41.19 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-88-181.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:49.13 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (utility.tcl wizards.tcl): only traverse into Utility and Wizards if they actually exist
20:26.38 Twingy heh
20:26.48 Twingy they make a super charger to take my truck from 150HP to 230HP
20:27.07 Twingy does 1/4 mile in 15 seconds
20:32.34 ``Erik hrmmmm
20:32.59 ``Erik here's a turbo that gives 7.5 psi for my car... (even thought they call it a supercharger)... 499hp
20:33.23 Twingy nutty
20:33.26 Twingy how much?
20:33.27 ``Erik huh, actually, the literature sounds like a real supercharger, mebbe they just put a lame pic up
20:33.30 Twingy mine would cost me $2700
20:33.38 ``Erik heh, 10,900
20:33.38 ``Erik :D
20:33.44 ``Erik (but damn, 499hp)
20:34.04 Twingy at that point the car would probly not be aeraodynamic enough to handle
20:34.12 Twingy aerodynamic
20:34.24 ``Erik I d'no, cf is .33
20:34.27 Twingy unless you dropped it some more and put a wing on
20:34.33 ``Erik corvette is .32 iirc
20:34.43 ``Erik my truck was .43 and fairly slippery for a truck
20:36.56 Twingy my engine block is cast iron
20:37.07 ``Erik cool
20:39.43 Twingy mine is 0.4 it appears
20:39.55 ``Erik cool
20:40.07 Twingy the super charger would be fun
20:40.18 Twingy but I'd just end up wasting more gas
20:40.53 ``Erik I read that some company in california does electric conversions of vehicles, and they did an s10 with the same geometry as mine to run full electric... added a tonnea cover and air dam to drop the cf from .42 or whatever to .34
20:41.03 Twingy spoke with that guy in aberdeen on rhino lining, $410
20:41.07 ``Erik cool
20:41.09 Twingy better than $680 dealer quote
20:41.20 Twingy ford used to have the Ford Ranger EV
20:41.24 Twingy in '02 or '03
20:41.55 Twingy I like mitsubishi's approach
20:42.01 Twingy where they are bolting on 2 electric motors, one to each wheel
20:42.15 Twingy no efficiently loss moving through gears and pinions
20:42.53 ``Erik http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/079701.html has some shit about electrifying a mid truck, heh
20:43.56 ``Erik (guess it was outta chevy, not a shop)
20:44.02 ``Erik why'd I think that o.O must be going senile
20:44.17 Twingy I think if they go back to the hydrogen vehicle approach
20:44.28 Twingy and use the the electricity to gather hydrogen
20:44.37 Twingy since you can pack more energy into the same volume, it'd sell better
20:44.42 Twingy since all you'd need is water
20:44.57 Twingy plug it in, fill it with a gallon of water... wait
20:45.18 Twingy make the filling unit portable
20:45.40 Twingy make a 240V and 120V switch
20:46.05 Twingy figure it'd cost about $2k since it'd need a small chunk of gold
20:46.49 ``Erik hrmmmmm, I wonder if there're any cheaper metals that'd do the trick... link, zinc or nickel
20:47.12 Twingy irridium, platinum, palladium, gold, and one other I think
20:47.42 Twingy I think Mercuty
20:47.44 Twingy Mercury
20:48.10 Twingy I think mercury would be the easiest to work with
20:48.22 ``Erik hrm, but it's liquid at stp
20:48.29 Twingy since you can jab your copper probe into it
20:48.38 Twingy and not worry about things corroding around the wire
20:48.44 Twingy since all it ever hits is the mercury
20:48.49 Twingy well
20:48.54 Twingy the walls of the filler
20:49.10 Twingy the problem is always the connection between the precious mettal and the insulator
20:49.14 Twingy it breaks it down
20:49.21 ``Erik hm, true
20:49.22 Twingy a gold wire with plastic insulator will eat plastic away slowly
20:49.35 Twingy it's a very hard problem
20:49.41 Twingy unless you make part of the process disposable
20:49.42 ``Erik small cups in the bottom with wires in them, then mercury fills the cups?
20:49.46 Twingy which is probly the cheapest way to do it
20:49.56 Twingy yes, but the cups would get eaten away
20:50.05 ``Erik why
20:50.06 ``Erik ?
20:50.13 Twingy cause the mercury is touching the cups
20:50.25 ``Erik and mercury would eat plastic?
20:50.27 ``Erik o.O
20:50.38 Twingy no, the electrolysis would
20:50.46 Twingy very slowly
20:51.02 Twingy it would eat away at it about 1 mil (not milimeter, but one mil) an hour
20:51.30 Twingy I think the most practicaly approach is a disposable sleeve that goes around the gold probe
20:51.42 Twingy you replace it every... 5 charges
20:51.46 Twingy costs you $1
20:53.06 Twingy and a tiny bottle of sulfuric acid
20:53.18 Twingy that drips into the reservoir when resistance gets too high
20:53.32 Twingy which you replace once a year
20:54.02 Twingy and a vent tube that vents oxygen and other gases outside
20:55.13 Twingy put on a tiny 3k psi compressor like my hand pump, and you're set
20:55.45 ``Erik hrmmm
20:55.52 ``Erik rebuilt tranny would be $350-400
20:56.02 Twingy sure it's not the clutch?
20:56.18 ``Erik ye
20:56.21 ``Erik clutch is like $50
20:56.22 ``Erik heh
20:56.30 ``Erik oh, you mean broken?
20:56.34 Twingy yea
20:56.36 ``Erik quite
20:56.57 Twingy gonna do it?
20:57.02 Twingy or scrap it for $1k?
20:57.06 ``Erik the clutch engages and disengages fine, the stick has no control
20:57.14 ``Erik I intend to fix it...
20:58.48 ``Erik here's one for $250
21:00.34 Twingy I need to head to H&R block
21:00.40 Twingy I want my $1200 tax return
21:00.43 ``Erik heh
21:00.50 ``Erik I need to get the rest of my forms and shit
21:01.04 Twingy I've got house stuff and w2
21:01.21 ``Erik the only hosue stuff I've gotten is the escrow interest w2
21:02.30 Twingy I figure with my return money I can buy my hard wood floor and mill
21:03.47 ``Erik pick me up a gm nv1500 while you're out
21:03.48 ``Erik o.O
21:03.57 Twingy heh, I just bought a 3d card a few nights ago
21:04.06 ``Erik gm, not nvidia
21:04.14 ``Erik that's the kinda transmission my truck uses...
21:04.18 ``Erik O:-)
21:04.27 Twingy nv reminded me of nvidia
21:04.46 Twingy bought a fx5200 or something
21:04.50 Twingy for the computer upstairs
21:04.56 Twingy it's got no three-dee
21:05.00 Twingy 1.3ghz celery
21:05.32 ``Erik all'z I know is when I start X, the machine starts posting...
21:05.38 Twingy heh
21:09.18 Twingy with the pooper I drove 14k miles a year
21:09.46 ``Erik trips to jersey and nc probably accounted for half of that
21:10.01 Twingy 6k miles will be work
21:10.05 Twingy yep
21:10.15 Twingy I have 1 trip planned for nc
21:10.25 Twingy mom is giving me her new'ish $1700 couch
21:10.34 Twingy bought it in
21:10.37 Twingy '02 I think
21:10.39 ``Erik sweet
21:10.44 Twingy 2 recliners on each end
21:10.53 ``Erik man, I have to make due with that pos couch I ave
21:10.53 Twingy gonna move the leather couch to the basement
21:10.54 ``Erik :(
21:11.02 Twingy I think I've speant a total of about 50 hours in that couch
21:11.04 Twingy heh
21:11.06 Twingy and paid $900 for it
21:11.26 Twingy I guess I'll throw it in the basement for now
21:15.22 Twingy I wonder how long carbon nano tube engines will last
21:15.37 Twingy would be nice having a warranty on the first million miles
21:15.56 Twingy even 500k
21:21.30 ``Erik they'd find someone to engineer breakage in
21:21.32 ``Erik O.o
21:34.22 Twingy how big is your tank?
21:34.34 ``Erik uhmmm, on my car or truck?
21:34.40 Twingy both
21:34.51 ``Erik truck is 19g, d'no about the car, probably close to the same
21:36.42 Twingy ah, mine appears to be 19.5
21:36.43 ``Erik the 02 is 16.6
21:36.56 Twingy hehe O2
21:36.59 ``Erik the only utility of tank size is range..
21:37.02 Twingy little blue toaster
21:37.04 ``Erik indeed
21:37.12 Twingy see my O2 haiku?
21:37.15 ``Erik yeah
21:37.16 ``Erik dork
21:37.17 ``Erik :D
21:37.18 Twingy :)
21:37.30 Twingy that has to be my oldest mark on the web
21:37.40 Twingy too bad my midi challenge page from '96 is gone
21:38.13 ``Erik I put a program on the web as shareware in '96, even got some money
21:38.50 Twingy I got $5 for a gold handicapper in basic in '96 hehe
21:38.54 Twingy err golf
21:39.11 Twingy 30 cents an hour, woot
21:39.15 ``Erik hehehe
21:39.27 Twingy bill gates makes $32 per heart beat
21:40.02 Twingy Want to give more power to the standard 3.0-liter V-6? That's easy. Just install the Ranger Whipple Supercharger. Available through Ford Racing Performance Parts, this kit creates a super-charged engine achieving 230 hp at 5,400 rpm and 260 lb.-ft. of torque at 3,000 rpm. It is an easy-to-install system that fits under the hood with no permanent modifications to the vehicle and no wiring.
21:40.22 ``Erik heh
21:40.44 ``Erik there's always a risk with overpressuring...
21:40.55 Twingy I aint racing nobody
21:41.00 Twingy so I got not need
21:41.10 Twingy I do have racing stripes though :}
21:41.20 Twingy +5% speed
21:41.21 Guu Twingy: Don't make me shoot you.
21:41.40 Twingy you're lacking 5% then
21:41.46 Twingy and 10% for no fin
21:41.51 Twingy and 20% for missing 2 bug eaters
21:48.15 Twingy http://www.yaplakal.com/uploads/previews/post-3-1138125896.jpg
21:50.37 ``Erik O.o
21:51.08 Twingy looks like seaweed
21:51.15 Twingy or rice
21:51.28 Twingy windows sushi computer?
22:24.38 docelic Someone was very bored
22:54.43 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060126

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060126

00:47.20 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix archer file headers (update to indicate the assigned copyright that bob said they needed to be (see commit on src/archer/archer))
02:50.17 pra5ad hmm.. ERROR: bad pointer x805f570: s/b struct resource(x83651835), was Zero_Magic_Number(x0), file db_match.c, line 193
02:50.27 pra5ad when using db_open
02:52.09 pra5ad nm, needed db_dirbuild
03:04.34 ``Erik heh
05:30.06 learner actually, you technically needed to init the global resource structure, but db_dirbuild does that for you
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18:22.02 Twingy ``Erik: 180lb-ft of torque w/o super
18:23.31 Twingy 260lb-ft of torque w/ super
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20:05.46 ``Erik that's a lot of burnt rubber
20:06.03 ``Erik if you could figure out how to shift the weight back to hold the drive wheels down, it'd scoot
20:10.06 Twingy yea
20:10.12 Twingy flooring tiles :)
20:10.20 Twingy or Ed and Chuck :)
20:13.24 archivist you need torque and weight ? http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Marine/Fullagar1.htm
20:15.45 Twingy mmm 3,000 hp
20:16.12 Twingy I suppose if my truck magically didn't get crushed under its own weight, I could dust erik
20:16.35 Twingy of course, as soon as I drove under a power line my truck would blow up
20:17.42 archivist theres 1 or 2 fullagar's in oz else they've all been scrapped
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20:22.23 Twingy oz?
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20:25.47 archivist_ australia
20:26.03 Twingy ah
20:31.10 *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
20:45.50 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code to properly set the state of the edit buttons in the right side toolbar.
21:54.21 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: meh, ordering cleanup
21:56.21 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/stage.m4: if stdout has been redirected to a file, don't output ansi control sequences
22:02.53 ``Erik burgerland
22:03.48 ``Erik (bear in mind, you need torque/weight for acceleration, you need weight on the drive wheels for traction... the more weight you add to the back, the more torque you need to maintain acceleration)
22:04.29 Twingy yea, torque/weight curve peak
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22:05.30 ``Erik one reason trucks don't drag so well unless they have enough torque right off the line to pick the nose up and hold it there until you're fast enough that you lose the force where the tire contacts... :)
22:05.59 Twingy it aint a racing machine :)
22:06.03 ``Erik newp
22:06.27 ``Erik I should make you tow my truck to your place and help me pick up a transmission, then use your garage to fix it :D *duck*
22:06.46 Twingy heh
22:06.52 Twingy my garage aint got no room in it
22:06.59 Twingy still organizing stuff
22:07.00 ``Erik like $250 for a full refurb'd tranny
22:07.16 ``Erik get that shit cleaned up and get your towing hitch, bo'
22:07.19 ``Erik :D *duck*
22:07.55 Twingy gonna ask wendy for a day off next week
22:08.02 ``Erik for the hitch?
22:08.05 Twingy so'z I can do important things like get a hitch
22:08.22 Twingy yea, I need to redeem my free hitch coupon, haha
22:08.54 Twingy I suspect if I asked for free bed liner he'd have flipped me off
22:09.00 ``Erik probably
22:09.39 Twingy I think they only made $900 off me instead of the average $1200
22:09.44 Twingy for this particular vehicle
22:09.47 ``Erik heh
22:10.11 Twingy MSRP minus dealer invoice
22:10.57 ``Erik 'cept dealer pays less than invoice
22:11.13 ``Erik they get 'incentive' rebates and shit
22:11.20 Twingy I thought dealer invoice is what *they* pay, and msrp is what they *try* to get YOU to pay
22:11.24 Twingy ah
22:11.29 Twingy rebates, mebe
22:14.09 ``Erik shooting copper slugs at mars, hrm
22:14.32 ``Erik (and here I thought copper was finding it's way to the list of rare metals, heh)
22:15.48 Twingy folks, I'd like to sing about the american dream, about me, about you, about the way our american hears beat way down in the bottom of our chests, maybe in the chest, maybe in the cockles, maybe in the sub cockles, maybe even in the colon.
22:34.38 ``Erik sean, help me out here... /usr/brlcad/bin/perf.sh: file ../pix/moss.log does not exist, aborting
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23:25.00 justin_ wee, picked up some lumber tonight
23:35.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c:
23:35.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: When making an rpp whose min value is greater than the max value, we now report
23:35.54 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: the values so the user knows which ones were the problem.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060127

00:19.28 justin_ was off by 3 degrees when I lined it up though :(
00:19.42 justin_ good thing this'll be under a bunch of drywall
00:21.44 brlcad hehe
00:24.36 ``Erik 3 degrees? damn you suck
00:25.38 ``Erik shoulda bought one of them deisel sipping wussmobiles o.O :D
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02:09.56 justin_ heh
03:49.48 pra5ad what's sean's email addy
04:01.15 pra5ad segfault on g-nmg 35.g
04:10.37 brlcad backtrace?
04:14.48 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/ (footer.sh header.sh indent.sh shtool): import helper scripts from brl-cad
04:16.01 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/Makefile.defs: import definitions makefile from brl-cad for common make build rules
04:16.34 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/Makefile.am: add initial Makefile.am
04:16.56 pra5ad ah he's back
04:16.56 pra5ad sec
04:17.18 pra5ad http://pastebin.com/525134
04:18.03 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/libtool.m4: add aux libtool.m4 file that gets moved to m4/ if there's a libtool failure
04:18.44 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/.cvsignore: initial (empty) .cvsignore
04:19.51 pra5ad oh also
04:20.09 pra5ad t62 local2base is 1.0 , havoc is 10.0
04:20.23 pra5ad in the final render, havoc is much smaller than the t62
04:20.29 pra5ad which one is wrong
04:22.07 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/m4/ (9 files): initial m4 helper macros, imported from brl-cad build system
04:33.34 brlcad sounds like you're scaling the wrong way
04:33.44 brlcad * vs /
04:36.34 brlcad should be a mulitiplier iirc
04:36.59 brlcad e.g. havoc is in units centimeters, t62 is millimeters
04:40.34 brlcad so if you don't scale the values, havoc will be a tenth the size
04:43.14 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/m4/Makefile.am: initial Makefile.am, adding m4 files to project
04:45.12 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/.cvsignore: initial (empty) .cvsignore
04:45.52 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/autogen.sh: update script to latest, importing update from brl-cad main
04:47.35 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/configure.ac: massive updates, borrowing from lessons learned in the brl-cad main. utilize the new m4 macros. stub out support for basic generic application build option support
04:50.36 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/Makefile.am: massive updates, borrowing from lessons learned in the brl-cad main. improve the support report and validation of the install dir permissions. inform aclocal to search the m4 directory for macros
04:52.32 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/src/libGeometry/Vec.cxx: include math.h for sqrt()
04:54.25 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/Makefile.am: include m4 and misc dirs in the distribution
04:55.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/configure.ac: generate the m4/ and misc/ Makefiles
05:07.26 pra5ad arr rwheel.g conversion is missing a lot of parts
05:37.02 pra5ad dude, * vs / doesnt matter
05:37.17 pra5ad if i mult, havoc is too big
05:37.25 pra5ad as in 10x
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13:12.16 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Convert a few instance variables into class variables.
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16:19.22 Ordog hi
16:19.48 Ordog i got a rather complex model consisting of 6 iges files
16:20.26 Ordog i need to lower polycount or sth else
16:20.44 Ordog do you know a way to do that with rhino or this tool ?
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22:07.22 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (libdm/libdm.vcproj mged/mged.vcproj): Not using embedded framebuffer in MGED on Windows.
22:11.33 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h): Added cmd_has_embedded_fb().
22:16.26 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/rt.tcl: Added the rt_check_dest proc. Disable framebuffer related menu items as these are pertinant only to the embedded framebuffer.
22:16.54 *** part/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-148-253.esr.east.verizon.net)
22:19.38 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: The package require's argument needs to be BLT on Windows.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060128

00:23.58 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:23.58 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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00:36.59 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (128 files in 26 dirs): header cleanup, atof() requires stdlib.h on altix/posix, fix 64-bitness
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04:02.00 justin_ welp
04:02.04 justin_ scuba tank can be refilled now
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22:46.51 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): header cleanup, include stdlib.h for atol(). fixes some 64-bitness
23:32.49 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060129

00:52.24 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (19 files in 11 dirs): more libbu memory management and header cleanup
01:40.26 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update converters to the API changes, avoiding the deprecated calls
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03:49.16 *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
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08:39.59 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): update to api changes from rt_* to bu_* for certain routines.
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20:37.33 egsavage Hello everyone
20:38.55 egsavage First, does anyone know of a binary distribution for ubuntu? Failing that, I'm trying to get past some 'configure' issues on my ubuntu box. Issue is the message: configure: error: C++ preprocessor "gcc -E" fails sanity check
20:59.58 brlcad hello
21:00.49 brlcad egsavage: if you install g++, that error should go away, alternatively you should be able to run something like: ./configure CXXCPP=cpp
21:02.43 egsavage hmm, i have g++ installed already
21:03.03 egsavage odd i shouldn't be fine without that other configure option
21:03.03 brlcad hmm indeed
21:03.10 brlcad it should
21:03.19 brlcad can you post the config.log file?
21:03.28 brlcad or send it to me
21:03.45 egsavage post where?
21:04.40 egsavage shall i send you the file via irc or some website?
21:05.11 brlcad whatever is convenient
21:05.21 egsavage let me try it again though - i just installed the kernel source tree package - i saw some reference somewhere saying that could fix the issue
21:05.45 brlcad did it work with the CXXCPP?
21:05.51 egsavage same failure
21:05.55 brlcad k
21:06.05 egsavage i can try with that configure option if you want me to try
21:06.08 brlcad at the end of the config.log file, it should have the compile test that failed
21:06.22 brlcad ahh, yeah try with that option
21:06.27 brlcad if you would
21:07.02 egsavage now it says "cpp" fails sanity check
21:08.19 brlcad which shouldn't happen :)
21:08.32 brlcad need to see what the error is
21:09.27 brlcad you can run: less config.log, hit shift-g which takes you to the end of the file, then hit 'b' to go back a page.. keep going back until you get to an error
21:10.18 egsavage trying to dcc the file to you - may not work because of my firewall config though
21:10.50 brlcad got it
21:11.33 brlcad configure:13889: gcc -E -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include conftest.cc
21:11.34 brlcad gcc: installation problem, cannot exec 'cc1plus': No such file or directory
21:12.03 egsavage hmm
21:12.16 egsavage i noticed in the configure log it said there is no g++ too - but there is
21:12.28 egsavage i can invoke it on the command line (g++ that is)
21:12.59 egsavage hmm, wait, i thought I could - now it says not found... gcc worked though
21:13.37 brlcad still "shouldn't" need it
21:13.51 brlcad but there's some tests external to brl-cad that expect it
21:13.59 brlcad even though the code is C
21:14.48 egsavage aha, got past it! ;-)
21:15.10 egsavage for whatever reason, g++-3.4 was installed - i installed g++-4.0 with synaptic and its rolling through it now
21:15.51 egsavage configure finished !
21:15.59 egsavage time for the build now
21:16.58 egsavage make is cruising now
21:28.15 brlcad is this a production install? :)
21:28.20 brlcad if so.. you should add --enable-optimized
21:28.55 brlcad otherwise raytrace performance will be about half what it should be
21:30.14 egsavage doh!
21:30.29 brlcad it's still fully functional
21:30.30 egsavage i guess I should recompile? do a make clean and redo?
21:30.33 brlcad and not a big deal
21:30.42 brlcad but .. it will run considerably faster ;)
21:30.50 egsavage might as well 'do it right'
21:30.51 brlcad yeah, make clean
21:31.08 egsavage 12 mins, 48 seconds for the make
21:31.10 egsavage not bad
21:31.36 brlcad not too shabby
21:31.37 egsavage add those options to the command line or the config header file somewhere?
21:31.54 brlcad ./configure --help
21:32.11 egsavage k
21:32.27 brlcad the INSTALL file also talks about the build in detail
21:33.11 egsavage any other recommended options?
21:33.18 egsavage i see there are plenty in the configure help
21:35.41 brlcad nah, default is to auto-detect dependencies, so you don't need to install anything
21:36.04 egsavage and it uses opengl by default?
21:36.07 brlcad could turn off run-time debugging for even more performance, but if this is your first go at it, I wouldn't bother
21:36.13 brlcad by default yet
21:36.28 brlcad though it will look the same (wireframe) regardless of it being opengl
21:36.33 egsavage k, hopefully i have all of the opengl libs needed
21:36.59 brlcad if you don't it'll use the X11 interface, which looks/acts the same
21:37.02 egsavage started the make again
21:37.24 brlcad if this is a dual/quad processor machine, you can make in parallel
21:37.35 egsavage i was thinking about that -j option on make
21:37.47 egsavage but i'd like some CPU for other stuff i'm doing on the box too ;-)
21:37.48 brlcad yeah, it'll work like a charm
21:38.19 egsavage wow!
21:38.38 egsavage maybe next go around if i rebuild i'll dare to crank it up
21:38.47 egsavage 3.2ghz p4 laptop here
21:39.12 brlcad you can ctrl-c safely, and make -j# -- it will pick up safely
21:39.29 egsavage let me try 3
21:39.43 egsavage it's going
21:40.31 brlcad it's been a while since an ubuntu compile, so there might be some minor build issue
21:40.34 brlcad hopefully not
21:40.38 brlcad what version are you compiling?
21:40.45 egsavage it built last time, no errors
21:40.52 egsavage 7.6.6
21:40.56 brlcad ah, right, excellent
21:41.12 egsavage latest/greatest, although not the HEAD from CVS
21:41.24 egsavage the tar ball from sourceforge
21:43.53 egsavage error:
21:43.55 egsavage gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../../include -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -O3 -c jove_buf.c
21:43.55 egsavage In file included from jove_buf.c:64:
21:43.55 egsavage ./jove.h:256: warning: built-in function 'exp' declared as non-function
21:43.55 egsavage ./jove.h:477: error: conflicting types for 'malloc'
21:44.31 egsavage look familiar?
21:48.55 egsavage been awhile since I've been hacking C (Java mostly now), but it's extern char * malloc - shouldn't it be void *?
21:50.41 brlcad ahh yes
21:50.53 brlcad odd that you didn't get that the first time
21:51.04 brlcad yeah, it should be
21:51.14 brlcad that code was written well before ansi C
21:51.20 brlcad when it used to be char *
21:51.41 brlcad you can --disable-jove if you want, or edit that header and remove the extern decl
21:53.25 egsavage k, let me comment that malloc extern out
21:54.01 egsavage moving forward past there now
21:54.24 egsavage strange others haven't seen that issue
21:54.33 egsavage that jove stuff has been there for sometime, right?
21:55.53 brlcad it's been there for over 15 years ;)
21:56.22 brlcad jove isn't always compiled though -- that's the relatively recent change
21:56.30 egsavage never used jove myself, emacs, sure
21:56.36 egsavage ahh, ok
21:56.41 brlcad some compilers don't care also, though new build flags make conformance more strict
21:56.56 egsavage am i a guinea pig? ;-)
21:56.59 brlcad jove is "jonathan's own version of emacs"
21:57.10 egsavage gnu or xemacs for me
21:57.21 brlcad basically a streamlined version of emacs with the 'wrong' keybindings ;)
21:57.58 brlcad back when the invocation of emacs took 30-60 seconds or more, jove was 'fast'
21:58.20 egsavage for quick stuff i've used vim - not emacs, but quick
21:58.26 brlcad no longer really an issue, but it's still shipped for historic reasons -- old users demand it ;)
21:58.48 brlcad ever try to take someone's editor away from them? :)
21:59.06 egsavage oh, i'm sure its not pleasant
21:59.48 brlcad i'd be fine with it myself since it's emacs-ish enough, but the bindings are foreign
22:00.03 egsavage show how well does brl-cad work with autocad drawings? good conversions?
22:00.29 brlcad hmm, depends entirely on what you mean by drawings ;)
22:00.45 brlcad for strict 2D drawings, it doesn't like them much because they're not solid geometry
22:01.03 brlcad for 3D models in dxf, it's pretty good -- better than most converters
22:01.16 brlcad more complaint than blender, for example
22:01.21 brlcad compliant even
22:01.31 egsavage i see dxf and dwg (?) files that I would like to view/edit
22:02.02 brlcad dxf may be fine, dwg are often/usually 2d-only
22:02.28 brlcad brl-cad mostly only cares about solid geometry
22:02.30 egsavage i'm new to cad myself ...
22:02.57 brlcad might as well say that patches (and new devs) are always welcome too ;)
22:03.37 egsavage ok, i'll remember that ... can you run with that jove.h fix though?
22:04.07 egsavage run, meaning, carry that fix through the CVS tree
22:05.27 egsavage build is still going - optimized takes a bit more compilation time
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22:17.07 brlcad indeed
22:18.20 egsavage install finished...
22:19.32 egsavage now i guess i need to do the 'hard stuff' - read the docs and figure out how to use this! ;-)
22:19.34 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove.h: fix the malloc/realloc and exp decl conflicts, include stdlib.h
22:19.51 egsavage thx brlcad for the jove fix
22:20.20 egsavage some other externs for other *alloc(), but when in doubt and no error, leave it I guess
22:20.45 brlcad the ealloc is jove's
22:20.51 egsavage ok
22:21.01 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (11 files): s/exp/jove_exp/ to avoid conflicting with exp() in math.h
22:21.36 egsavage ah, i did see some warnings about that fly by too
22:22.51 egsavage i'll have to go read that tutorial ... any quick test to see if my basic compile worked?
22:22.57 brlcad yeah
22:23.05 brlcad make test
22:23.08 brlcad and make benchmark
22:23.10 egsavage k
22:23.31 egsavage as regular joe, not root, right?
22:23.37 brlcad the latter will test system performance
22:23.38 brlcad yeah
22:23.57 brlcad root would only be required to do a make install into a system directory
22:24.06 egsavage right, did that
22:24.08 egsavage test is going
22:24.17 egsavage sucking up that CPU ;-)
22:24.23 egsavage it passed
22:24.38 egsavage let me do the benchmark
22:24.59 brlcad if you did an install, you can also run the 'benchmark' tool to get the benchmark suite to run
22:25.44 egsavage oh, too late - doing it via make now
22:25.55 egsavage this sends or runs forever?
22:25.58 brlcad that's fine, they're the same
22:26.02 egsavage ends i mean
22:26.07 brlcad it ends
22:26.22 brlcad it iterates until stable numbers are computed
22:26.33 brlcad should take about 10 minutes
22:26.42 egsavage moss said RIGHT
22:27.01 brlcad you could have cut that down considerably by running the tool directly and decreasing the iteration window ;)
22:27.12 brlcad but you'll get slightly better results with the default window
22:27.18 brlcad there are 6 tests
22:27.42 egsavage i noticed there are lots of executables... are these all integrated in the UI too?
22:27.43 brlcad it raytraces various models testing the performance and behavior of the raytracer
22:28.16 brlcad no they're unfortunately not all integrated, but maybe 1/5 or 1/4 are integrated into mged
22:28.46 egsavage is that the one i should try after the benchmark?
22:28.55 brlcad the new modeler integrates most all of them, but that's active development that probably wont hit hands until late summer at best
22:29.07 brlcad yeah, mged is a good starting point
22:29.10 egsavage k
22:29.17 brlcad the converters are all external to mged
22:29.31 brlcad so you would probably interact with them early as well, dxf-g for example
22:29.54 egsavage ok
22:30.01 egsavage on bldg391 now
22:30.55 pra5ad hmm i use ubuntu
22:31.11 pra5ad (reading log now)
22:31.18 egsavage got it going on ubuntu now
22:31.23 egsavage not that painful
22:31.38 egsavage just make sure you have the latest g++ installed so configure can proceed
22:32.42 brlcad i had a similar issue on a debian box a year or so ago, but the problem was worked around by setting CXXCPP (which configure now tries automatically iirc)
22:33.28 brlcad ah, yes.. here it is
22:33.29 brlcad # libtool's configuration check has a bug that causes a /lib/cpp
22:33.29 brlcad # sanity check failure if a C++ compiler is not installed. This makes
22:33.30 brlcad # the sanity test pass regardless of whether there is a c++ compiler.
22:34.19 brlcad might be a new test added in another part of the autotools m4 sourcse that also provokes the same problem now
22:34.30 egsavage benchmark results (for the debug build):
22:34.31 egsavage Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1610
22:34.31 egsavage Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.21 (natural logarithm is 7.38)
22:34.43 brlcad not bad at all
22:34.48 brlcad especially for a P4
22:34.56 brlcad single cpu?
22:34.58 egsavage oh, cool, good to hear ;-)
22:35.13 egsavage p4 HT, but I haven't booted the SMP kernel yet
22:35.22 egsavage just built it - need to boot it
22:35.31 brlcad HT doesn't buy much
22:35.36 egsavage yeah
22:36.23 egsavage started mged
22:37.43 brlcad for what it's worth, a VGR of 1 is the performance of an old VAX 11/780 supercomputer (circa 1977)
22:38.08 egsavage i saw that in the log...
22:38.15 brlcad which is one of the oldest machines to run brl-cad
22:38.17 egsavage what should i try for a quick test in mged?
22:38.32 brlcad hmm, a quick test..
22:38.42 brlcad did you create a new database?
22:38.45 egsavage something to load up
22:38.50 brlcad ah, okay
22:39.06 brlcad there are simple example geometry databases that get installed
22:39.18 brlcad if you installed into /usr/brlcad, they are in share/brlcad/7.6.6/db
22:39.34 brlcad open havoc.g
22:39.55 brlcad then 'e havoc' in the command window
22:40.09 brlcad maybe then: rt -F/dev/Xl
22:40.48 egsavage a nice heli appeared ;-)
22:41.14 brlcad russian attack helicopter, relatively simple model
22:41.29 brlcad but more detailed than most of the example .g files
22:41.46 egsavage nice solid view too
22:42.08 egsavage can i zoom in that rt?
22:42.31 brlcad right/left click to zoom in/out
22:43.23 egsavage zoom works on the wireframe, not solid
22:43.26 brlcad there are various shift-option-control clicks as well for various options
22:43.45 brlcad ah, you mean the window that popped up on the rt
22:43.52 brlcad that's a raster image, raytraced
22:43.57 egsavage ok
22:44.44 brlcad there's means to zoom them in/out but not as a /dev/Xl window
22:45.03 egsavage thanks for your help! seems to be working well... Time to read/learn brlcad in the tutorial...
22:45.17 egsavage My wife just said dinner is ready so I'll be back later - thx
22:45.22 brlcad no problem!
22:45.28 brlcad if you have any questions, someone's usually here ;)
22:45.34 egsavage thanks again!
22:45.34 brlcad or will eventually answer
22:59.50 pra5ad i had no probs compiling from head on breezy
22:59.57 pra5ad *shrug*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060130

00:13.59 pra5ad hehe just found chuck on a tribes server
00:32.33 ``Erik skeery
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14:17.26 ``Erik blarhg
14:17.36 ``Erik $bxp
14:18.01 ``Erik woops, $hxp even, hehehhee
16:13.31 Twingy http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/01/30/health.alcohol.reut/index.html
16:19.55 ``Erik ah, that one says 2, also
16:20.01 Twingy at amost 2
16:20.05 Twingy *most
16:20.10 Twingy doesn't mean 2
16:20.38 ``Erik it doesn't say at most, it says "the most recent"
16:20.59 ``Erik so drink up, bitch :D it's good for you
16:21.27 Twingy maybe after I'm done remodeling my house
16:21.40 ``Erik does your hoa have policy on fixing cars?
16:21.43 Twingy I reckon its lunch time
16:21.48 Twingy no, it doesn't
16:21.57 ``Erik ah, mine forbids it
16:21.59 ``Erik :/
16:22.00 Twingy heh
16:22.05 Twingy your hoa sucks
16:22.11 ``Erik indeed
16:22.17 ``Erik too bad I'm stuck a little bit longer, heh
16:23.06 Twingy unless you can find a bigger house with the same payments
16:23.11 Twingy unlikely :)
16:23.32 ``Erik or shuffle so the new mortgage pays off the car
16:23.39 Twingy until you can swing $1900/mo, I suspect you'll be in that place for a while
16:23.57 ``Erik 1900/mo on mortgage? um, just barely, actually, heh
16:24.23 ``Erik with the reduced lunch and booze budget
16:24.32 Twingy so you can afford $2800 on car and house?
16:25.03 ``Erik yeah, barely
16:25.25 ``Erik as in; no new couch, no new computers, ...
16:25.39 ``Erik no more impulse buys like that fat caliper, heh
16:25.44 Twingy I know I've got $100 comcast, $50 phone, $200 energy, $300 food, $100 gas, $150 insurance, $50 hoa
16:26.15 ``Erik my food is lower, insurance only a tiny bit higher
16:26.36 ``Erik actually, this month, if you combine grocerys, eating out, and booze, I hit right at 300
16:27.10 Twingy if my house and car were $2800, I'd need to make $3700/mo to break even
16:27.15 Twingy after taxes
16:27.36 Twingy with $0 to buy toys
16:28.07 archivist I wish I could break even
16:29.03 Twingy hmm lunch
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18:52.02 ace9109 Lee B. online?
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18:56.17 ``Erik he wasn't in his office when I walked by a few minutes ago o.O
18:57.00 ace9109 thanks
19:02.23 ace9109 you there?
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19:27.29 CIA-13 libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/ (8 files in 4 dirs): the stupidest of IRC servers
19:37.48 ``Erik O.o
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23:02.38 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/ (tpkg.c Makefile.am): initial add of 'tpkg', an example file data transfer program. the program is written in a ttcp style, sending a file's data from a client to a server using libpkg for the network communication.
23:05.42 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
23:05.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: new tpkg ttcp-style example application using libpkg. tpkg is an example file
23:05.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: data transfer program, written in a ttcp style, sending a file's data from a
23:05.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: client to a server using libpkg for the network communication. the example
23:05.43 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: sample application is installed for developer reference.
23:48.28 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add command line help options and manpage to 'benchmark' tool
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060131

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060131

00:51.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
00:51.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: to quote Bob's commit to src/archer/archer "All of archer including the
00:51.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL" so add
00:51.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: the boilerplate legal header and remove the survice claim. the COPYING file
00:51.23 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: requires this as well. also add the boilerplate variables footer while we're at
00:51.26 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: it.
01:23.33 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:53.38 tegtmeye mmm, tastes...pasty
02:05.11 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: footer
02:05.16 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/cad_dialog.tcl: title
02:06.31 ``Erik heh
02:06.34 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/ (21 files in 2 dirs): legal header changed from Library to Lesser to reflect current 'official' name of the license
02:06.57 ``Erik heh, doh, apple is too smart for em
02:06.57 ``Erik me
02:08.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (41 files in 5 dirs):
02:08.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: to quote Bob's commit to src/archer/archer "All of archer including the
02:08.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL" so add
02:08.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: the boilerplate legal header. the COPYING file requires this regardless for all
02:08.55 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: commits whether implicit or explicit. also add the boilerplate variables footer
02:08.56 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: while we're at it.
02:10.56 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: the archer headers are now fixed, reflecting the correct legal header that bob annotated in his commit log message to src/archer/archer and as the COPYING file requires of contributions by devs.
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03:21.09 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: make g_transfer a noinst program and a sample source application
06:00.32 pra5ad rofl, gary coleman in 'postal the movie'
06:00.38 pra5ad hi-larious
06:02.18 pra5ad uwe boll is about to ruin the far cry and dungeon siege franchises
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060201

00:07.15 *** join/#brlcad nKf (i=fKn@p54B53C9E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:07.20 nKf hi
00:08.04 nKf which c++ preprocessor should i use for compiling brlcad?
00:08.59 brlcad hello
00:09.06 brlcad any
00:09.24 brlcad if you're getting a c++ preprocessor error, it usually means that a preprocessor isn'
00:09.27 brlcad isn't installed
00:09.35 brlcad er, that c++ isn't installed
00:09.44 brlcad the C preprocessor should work fine as well
00:10.03 brlcad might get away with ./configure CXXCPP=cpp
00:10.31 nKf well, cpp is installed (3.4 and 4.0) but none of them seems to work
00:10.50 brlcad is g++ installed?
00:11.02 brlcad or tried the CXXCPP=cpp?
00:12.01 brlcad need to run out, back in 2 hours.. :/
00:12.35 nKf g++ ? i use ubuntu.. i found no g++ package
00:13.29 nKf in config.log i see the following message: "cannot exec cc1plus: no such file..."
00:14.08 nKf ok, see you later or tomorrow, thanks anyway
00:22.22 nKf strange thing, you are right... g++ is not installed...
00:24.06 nKf now it work.. thanks a lot... byebye
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18:21.00 pier Hi everyone
18:21.33 pier a questin about replication and referencing
18:22.41 pier What is the differences between the two procedures in building them?
18:22.50 pier I mean the commands
18:22.56 pier used
18:47.23 brlcad which commands? or is that what you're asking?
18:47.46 brlcad in general when you create a combination with the g or comb commands, they are simply references, not copies, of the objects
18:47.53 brlcad cp replicates an object
18:48.32 brlcad yet if you cp a combination, it only replicates that combination, not the objects that are referenced inside that combination
18:48.55 brlcad there is a way to perform a "deep copy", but the command escapes me right this second
18:49.03 brlcad and is generally discouraged ;)
18:49.33 brlcad if you cp a primitive, it replicates that primitive just like how it replicates a combination
18:52.48 pier as a matter of fact I created a combination
18:53.01 pier then copied it
18:53.23 pier and moved as a matrix in the right place
18:53.41 pier made several cp of the same comb
18:53.52 pier and placed them but
18:54.28 pier when a change in a dimension called this wasn't reflected in the other objects
18:54.46 pier perhaps I did somethig wrong
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19:53.39 pier Sorry, my fault... it works ... perhaps had one two many
20:01.42 pier too
20:27.23 pier Brlcad.. the translation of the second volume is getting on
20:27.28 pier slowly though
20:28.19 pier I hope to be able to work on it full time as soon as I get rid of some dead lines
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21:46.39 *** join/#brlcad nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com)
21:47.35 nelson ignorant question: can I use BRL-CAD to design plastic parts and then send off to a fab shop to have them made?
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23:06.07 ``Erik depends on the format the fabricator can take...
23:19.00 brlcad nelson_: for the most part, it can assuming the fab shop groks one of the formats brl-cad exports
23:36.12 ``Erik (finding out if the plastic part has the structural integrity to exist, however, is a different problem :) )
23:45.03 nelson_ So I should locate a fab shop first, and then ask them. Okay, will do, thanks.
23:46.10 ``Erik yeah, I have a feeling "stl" is a common format, and brlcad exports stl files, but some places want them in a certain arrangement, so make sure to ask
23:46.19 ``Erik (like print fabricators want them 'layered'
23:46.19 ``Erik )
23:50.40 *** join/#brlcad nKf (i=fKn@p54B56E76.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:51.00 nKf hi
23:51.56 nKf i'm back again with new questions :) while compiling i got this error message: ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
23:52.28 nKf is a library missing? what could be the problem?
23:56.26 ``Erik X
23:56.42 ``Erik that's an Xlib function...
23:59.43 nKf but xlib and xlib-dev ist installed
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060202

00:08.26 nKf it is late in germany.. good night.. bye
00:59.54 nelson_ Before I download brlcad, can it load a .STEP file?
01:02.08 ``Erik ".step"?
01:02.19 ``Erik (you can take a look at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/conv/ to see some of the supported formats...)
01:03.05 ``Erik they're mostly in the form of from-to.c
01:03.50 nelson Oooohhhhhhhh, it has IGES. That's good.
01:04.43 nelson STEP == Standard for the Exchange of Product Design
01:04.59 nelson PDES == Product Data Exchange using STEP
01:09.23 nelson I see. A STEP converter is in progress. http://www.freelists.org/archives/cad-linux-dev/05-2005/msg00000.html
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01:51.28 brlcad there is not a step converter yet, though another guy and I were working on one about a year ago
01:51.46 brlcad it's even more complex than supporting iges was
01:51.52 brlcad but certainly doable
01:53.39 nelson yes, I can see that it's complicated. :(
01:56.44 brlcad we were able to leverage an existing parser written years ago by nist, and updated it to the latest 10303 spec
01:57.00 brlcad but that still leaves implementing support for ap203 and/or ap214
01:57.27 brlcad and *then* you can start thinking about the actual conversion process of how to go to/from brl-cad and iges
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02:28.47 tegtmeye brlcad, you around?
02:29.41 brlcad maybe
02:30.30 tegtmeye what are you guys putting in usr/local in the std image? (macs)
02:32.45 tegtmeye I can't remember if I put gcc4.1 in there or if you guys did...
02:34.06 tegtmeye I think so, I just found a pretty big bug in 4.1, and I saw it was on pinion-didn't know if anyone else was using it...
02:34.15 tegtmeye good plan
02:35.00 tegtmeye thanks.
02:35.09 brlcad heh, np
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18:45.00 razz brlcad: WARNING: BRL-CAD 7.7.0 is apparently not installed yet.
18:45.00 razz attempt to provide package Iwidgets 7.7.0 failed: package Iwidgets 4.0.1 provided instead
18:45.00 razz invalid command name "gui"
18:45.00 razz MGED Aborted.
18:46.16 razz brlcad: The error above is what I get when I attempted to run mged on windows after compilation. What I my missing?
18:46.53 razz brlcad: I downloaded yesterday's brlcad build from cvs.
19:14.57 brlcad razz: ah, interesting
19:15.09 brlcad there's a manual "move files into place" step right now
19:15.19 brlcad at least that's what I've been told not having compiled on windows yet
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19:16.44 razz thats is true. And I have moved some files around. Also, it seems the trouble lies with the Iwidgets version
19:17.17 brlcad that's a variable setting, sounds more like a warning
19:18.42 brlcad the include/config_win.h should have it set to 4.0.2
19:20.04 brlcad it "should" be 4.0.1
19:22.05 razz it is set to 4.0.1
19:22.45 razz there is also an "invalid gui" error
19:24.45 brlcad that's because it's not finding the tclscripts directory
19:24.55 brlcad gui is the first command that kicks off
19:25.02 brlcad that launches the gui
19:44.53 brlcad razz: run mged -c and select nu for the device
19:45.51 brlcad then run bu_brlcad_root . and bu_brlcad_data .
19:45.58 razz I did and error message is -c option not available
19:46.12 brlcad woah
19:46.47 brlcad what about mged -n
19:47.08 razz same error message
19:47.18 brlcad is there a btclsh or bwish?
19:48.09 brlcad if so, you can run those two commands in them also
19:48.53 brlcad ahhhh
19:48.56 brlcad #ifndef _WIN32
19:48.56 brlcad <PROTECTED>
19:48.56 brlcad #else
19:48.56 brlcad <PROTECTED>
19:48.59 brlcad #endif
19:49.00 brlcad boo hiss
19:49.33 brlcad wonder why he did that, should be trivial to get working
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21:49.02 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
21:49.02 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: fix build issues on mac os x 10.2. there's no socklen_t type so pretend it's
21:49.02 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: size_t. old version of autoconf doesn't do anything with the arguments to
21:49.02 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: AC_C_BIGENDIAN, so just check the result and define NATURAL_IEEE/REVERSE_IEEE
21:49.02 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: conditionally.
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22:45.31 *** join/#brlcad nKf (i=fKn@p54B54CC2.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:45.36 nKf hi
23:00.52 nKf same question as yesterday: which library includes "XFreeDeviceList".. i got an error message "../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to 'XFreeDeviceList'
23:01.45 nKf the same with 'XListInputDevice', 'XOpenDevice', and 'XSelectExtensionEvent'
23:03.52 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-151-196-29-122.balt.east.verizon.net)
23:12.27 brlcad hello
23:12.48 brlcad nKf: that's an X11 symbol, sounds ike what ``Erik said was right
23:13.31 brlcad I forget, did you compile yourself?
23:14.05 nKf i try it :)
23:14.55 nKf of cause it is a x symbol? but which library? xlib (what ``Erik said) is installed
23:15.32 nKf an the error message is "undefined reference" and not "library not found" ?
23:16.08 brlcad it could be that your library doesn't have that symbol
23:16.12 nKf maybe a other library version?
23:16.20 brlcad what are you trying to run?
23:16.27 brlcad mged?
23:16.32 nKf make
23:16.38 brlcad ah, make error
23:16.41 brlcad which dir?
23:16.44 nKf right
23:17.08 nKf src/bwish
23:17.35 nKf first gcc command work, but second leaves with the above error message
23:17.58 brlcad paste the compile line?
23:19.03 nKf ok, one moment
23:19.11 *** join/#brlcad nKf2 (i=fKn@p54B54CC2.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:19.45 nKf2 /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -o .libs/btclsh cmd.o input.o main.o tcl.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so ../../src/librt/.libs/librt.so ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/librt/.libs/librt.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbn/.libs/libbn.
23:20.03 nKf oh.. too long
23:20.10 brlcad yeah, break up into pieces
23:20.20 brlcad or use pastebin
23:20.25 brlcad ~pastebin
23:20.28 ibot pastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste
23:20.58 nKf2 /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -o .libs/btclsh cmd.o input.o main.o tcl.o
23:21.13 nKf2 -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so
23:21.55 nKf2 ../../src/librt/.libs/librt.so ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/librt/.libs/librt.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbn/.libs/libbn.so
23:22.19 nKf2 /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libpng/.libs/libpng.so ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so /usr/lib/libGL.so
23:22.37 nKf2 -lXext ../../src/libbn/.libs/libbn.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so ../../src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so -lc -lpthread /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so
23:22.48 nKf2 ../../src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitk3.3.so ../../src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitcl3.3.so ../../src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so
23:23.00 nKf2 -lX11 ../../src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so -ldl -lnsl /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libz/.libs/libz.so -lm ../../src/libtermio/.libs/libtermio.so -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib
23:23.17 nKf2 ok, i hope that was all
23:23.33 nKf2 the error message
23:23.41 nKf2 ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
23:23.42 nKf2 ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices'
23:23.42 nKf2 ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice'
23:23.42 nKf2 ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent'
23:26.26 nKf2 or : http://pastebin.com/536164
23:34.10 nKf any idea ?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060203

00:30.12 brlcad sorry, was distracted
00:32.26 brlcad yeah, I'm guessing you need more than -lX11
00:32.38 brlcad probably -lXi
00:33.03 brlcad nKf: which would likely be /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a or .so
00:33.09 brlcad or maybe in another package
00:33.13 brlcad that isn't installed
00:33.23 nKf ok, i'll check it
00:33.35 brlcad Xmu, Xext are also possibilities, but Xi would be my first guess
00:34.14 brlcad if you run: nm /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a | grep XFreeDeviceList does it return anything?
00:38.25 nKf libxmu libxext and libxi are installed, but /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a doesnt exists
00:42.19 nKf ok, it's in /usr/lib
00:42.48 nKf 00000455 T XFreeDeviceList
00:45.07 brlcad try: make LIBS=-lxmu -lxi if that's really how they're spelled (case sensitive)
00:45.21 brlcad er make LIBS="-lxi" for starters
00:45.48 brlcad should be -lXi
00:46.00 brlcad unless you really have a libxi with that case
00:49.27 nKf hm, i have added -lXi manually to the makefile in src/bwish
00:49.38 nKf LIBS=-lXi
00:49.58 nKf LIBS=-lXi; make on command line doesnt work
00:51.05 brlcad same error?
00:51.25 brlcad libs would need to still include -lX11 and others
00:51.54 nKf with manual entry to the makefile it works
00:52.10 brlcad ah, good
00:52.18 nKf but not with a definition on command line
00:52.26 brlcad btw, "LIBS=-lXi; make" should have been "LIBS=-lXi make"
00:52.42 nKf hm ok...
00:52.46 brlcad though again, probably still missing other list
00:52.49 brlcad s/list/libs
00:53.11 nKf at the moment it is compiling
00:53.16 brlcad you'll likely get that same error in other places
00:53.20 brlcad like src/mged
00:53.39 nKf right
00:54.00 nKf but also solved with the manual entry
00:54.11 nKf ready :)
00:54.17 brlcad heh
00:54.19 nKf all passed
00:54.29 brlcad make X_LIBS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXi" might work too
00:54.53 brlcad that'll redefine just the X_LIBS which is what all the files should be using
00:56.54 nKf ok, installation tomorrow... it's 02:00 in the morning now - i should go to bed now :)
00:57.07 nKf bye.. and thanks for your help...
01:00.06 brlcad no problem
01:00.12 brlcad good look with the build
01:00.18 brlcad er, good luck
01:19.58 pra5ad is this in ubuntu?
01:22.55 brlcad yep
01:45.59 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fallback to int instead of to size_t for the socklen_t check
01:47.52 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for getprogname and setprogname functions for libbu
01:50.18 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
01:50.18 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: make bu_argv0() static, it shouldn't be called by programs any longer. instead,
01:50.18 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: programs should use bu_getprogname() and bu_setprogname() to mimic the stdlib
01:50.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: interface functions of similar name. if the stdlib interface routines are
01:50.19 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: available, they'll get used.
02:02.39 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: bu_argv0 was replaced with bu_setprogname and bu_getprogname rather quickly so no need to deprecate it. just remove.
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02:08.05 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: er, bu_argv0() was declared twice. remove it.
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02:08.24 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/brlcad_path.c mged/ged.c mged/setup.c): use bu_getprogname/bu_setprogname instead of bu_argv0
02:08.49 pra5ad im telling u
02:08.59 pra5ad base ubuntu 5.10 install had 0 problems
02:09.13 brlcad and that helps him how? :)
02:09.45 pra5ad he can install 5.10 base =)
04:19.53 pra5ad is sourceforge down?
04:32.16 brlcad no
04:34.47 pra5ad hmph
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06:37.18 markrages anyone here?
06:44.49 markrages hi?
07:00.40 brlcad oop
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08:34.57 brlcad moof
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14:48.21 polyspin It looks like socklen_t is still a problem when compiling head on OS X
15:36.41 ``Erik O.o
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16:13.03 pra5ad_werk brlcad
16:13.18 brlcad pra5ad_werk: nope
16:13.24 pra5ad_werk (
16:13.28 pra5ad_werk :(
16:13.48 brlcad go do situps, see if you can pass me up :)
16:15.20 ``Erik "hurrrrr *grunt*... uhhh, can we call that 2/3?"
16:15.20 ``Erik :}
16:27.51 pra5ad_werk heh
16:28.11 pra5ad_werk since the lunch crowd is staying put, i may just do that
16:31.10 ``Erik I kinda wanted to go to the bowling alley, but justin poopoo'd on that, he wanted to hit the drive through at booger king
16:33.21 ``Erik "If Osama B. isn't in Afghanistan, and if he isn't dead, we believe he is in another country" - US army General ( http://qdb.us/32301 )
16:36.40 pra5ad_werk military intelligence
16:37.01 clock_ what if he's on the moon?
16:37.09 clock_ Or Mars?
16:42.07 ``Erik ... have you been eating wall candy again?
17:41.07 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: look for lseek function
17:44.47 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: lseek's use of off_t requires sys/types.h
17:57.22 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: improve the socklen_t check, need to look in sys/socket.h as well as sys/types.h for the type. still fallback to int.
18:01.54 pra5ad_werk shouldnt have done cardio before the situps
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21:42.18 IngMan hi
21:43.10 brlcad hello
21:43.11 IngMan it gears
21:43.16 IngMan it gears
21:43.35 IngMan how make it a gears ????
21:44.06 brlcad how to make gears, that would be the pattern tool
21:44.41 brlcad sort of like this: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
21:44.50 brlcad but arbitrary gear types
21:45.59 brlcad this is covered somewhat in vol 3 iirc
21:46.08 brlcad the pattern tool is on the menu
21:48.23 IngMan how I create the profile of the gear
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21:50.00 brlcad eh, you don't have to create a profile, but if you wanted to, that would be a sketch/extrude object
21:50.47 brlcad you'd use csg, make a disk, union together or subtract the grooves using the pattern tool
21:51.52 brlcad that's two primary different techniques
21:52.25 brlcad if you wanted to sketch a profile and extrude, that would be the sketch primitive and the sketch primitive (on the edit menu)
21:52.44 brlcad the recommended approach, however, is to use csg operations/objects and pattern
21:55.51 IngMan usign the csg, what primitive is a tooth of the gears
21:56.16 brlcad depends on the type of gear
21:56.39 brlcad if it's square edged, probably would use an arb
21:56.49 clock_ brlcad: how do I make metric winding?
21:56.55 brlcad if it's rounded like on that bike wheel, probably a cylinder
21:57.25 brlcad clock_: a metric winding is what?
21:57.30 clock_ brlcad: screw
21:57.43 brlcad that tapers?
21:58.04 clock_ No, ordinary winding, like on say M10x50 bolt
21:58.40 clock_ if you have bolt and nut then there are special grooves on the bolt
21:58.58 clock_ and the nut which hold them together and allow them to slide along slowly if you turn them many turns.
21:59.04 brlcad picture?
21:59.19 clock_ I want to make a cylinder with this grooves which I call winding
21:59.41 clock_ brlcad: or thread
22:00.08 clock_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread
22:00.21 clock_ Metric: M Profile Thread Form
22:00.42 clock_ brlcad: how do I make a thread in brlcad?
22:02.31 IngMan but if it is a helical gear
22:03.27 IngMan I suppose that of the same form that
22:14.55 brlcad threaded and helical structures can be made with torii and/or pipes
22:15.25 brlcad it's a rather complex operation to do in csg, really need a path sweeping primitive to do it better
22:15.28 brlcad but it can be done
22:16.29 brlcad imagine a half-torus subtracted by two half-torii offset half the distance
22:17.32 brlcad that gives you a curved winding segment
22:17.46 brlcad tie them together with matchin radii on the ends and you form a thread
22:18.15 brlcad have some models that do this, but most don't need that level of detail as it doesn't affect an analysis
22:28.26 ``Erik O.o
23:26.50 justin_ welp, I got me a hitch now
23:32.50 justin_ sean, I tracked down the bug with the fused vertices
23:33.20 justin_ it was chewing on a null vertice... didn't have time to figure out why it was null, but put in a work around which allowed me to tesselate it
23:35.09 brlcad that's how they usually are
23:44.00 pra5ad g-nmg related?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060204

00:01.40 brlcad yes
01:02.24 CIA-13 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ptbl.c: cleanup, doxygenify
02:18.32 pra5ad most excellent
02:18.59 pra5ad perhaps this'll produce 100% conversion
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03:25.26 brlcad 100% conversion?
03:25.31 brlcad you mean from that fix?
03:25.45 brlcad there are lots of cases like that known to crash..
03:26.26 brlcad i should probably write a script that walks all the objects in every .g in a directory, performing a g-nmg and nmg-bot hunting for crashes
03:26.32 brlcad just to weed them all out
03:26.46 brlcad since they are generally trivial to fix once encountered
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04:38.42 pra5ad u do that mister morrison =)
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15:31.45 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_mk.c: prevent crashing in nmg_kvu() when the vertex use structure has a null parent and/or null up pointers for whatever reason. user reported crash on the *vu->up.magic_p -- this fixes that crash.
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15:39.26 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: ws indent
16:09.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: prevent crashing if we're unable to print the title of an illuminated path. this fixes sf bug 1218812 reported by clock3.
16:14.06 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:14.06 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: fixed multiply referenced object illumination bug (sf bug 1218812) where mged
16:14.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: fails to properly track the muliply referenced objects causing a bad directory
16:14.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: list, causing a crash. the reported crash is fixed though multiply referenced
16:14.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: objects (in a single combination) are still problematic. also fixed a bug in
16:14.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: the nmg code where it was crashing while freeing an nmg object.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060205

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060205

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17:32.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: need stdlib for free(), change to libbu memory management in other places
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17:41.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: convert to libbu memory management
17:48.30 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: need stdlib.h for malloc/free
19:17.05 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/giftorle.c: need unistd.h for read()
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19:36.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/giftorle.c: calling a FILE* an fd doesn't make it one. don't try to read() it either, get the read fd from the fd file pointer
19:37.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed read bug in giftorle
19:46.02 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am shaders.sh): output to shaders.log, not mged_shaders.log
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060206

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03:16.43 ``Erik let's get retarded in here o.O
03:55.54 pra5ad heh seattle got screwed over by the refs
05:18.23 brlcad good game
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15:57.19 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/Makefile.am: libtool apparently cannot resolve the dependency on libpkg with the library listed with a full path so provide it a local-dir dependency
17:52.55 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.1: reformatted page so that options are called out in a more readable fashion.
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20:10.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: output raytrace scripts using the .rt suffix convention, fix the pixdiff stderr so that it doesn't append, overwrites. fix the tr to handle multiple lines anyways.
20:45.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: ws
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23:16.20 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.1: formatting of the options, and expounding a little to (hopefully) improve clarity.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060207

00:11.05 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: if the shader is null, prevent a crash on strtok'ing it
00:12.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent several g-nmg segfaults
00:54.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/pngtest.c: protect against jmpbuf define in IBM SP4 headers
00:58.55 pra5ad brlcad,
01:00.19 brlcad there are lots of ways to represent it
01:00.39 brlcad could be a revolved spline curve
01:00.49 brlcad could be a set of spline patches
01:01.20 pra5ad what ways? brep?
01:01.26 brlcad yes
01:01.31 pra5ad k
01:01.34 pra5ad and brlcad?
01:01.44 brlcad brl-cad uses primarily implicit geometry
01:02.01 pra5ad that's the official term? 'implicit geometry' ?
01:02.07 brlcad where a sphere (and most of the primitives) are defined by a mathematical function
01:02.46 brlcad and where the function is > 1, you're outside, < 1 you're inside, == 1 you're on the surface (for a unitized homogeneous space)
01:03.00 pra5ad oh..
01:03.39 brlcad s/1/any constant for that matter/
01:03.51 brlcad heh, ibot shuttup
01:04.36 brlcad pra5ad: it's an isosurface
01:05.11 pra5ad will the definition of an isosurface be adequete to describe the representation?
01:05.16 brlcad intrinsicly, implicits are more "pure" from a mathematical standpoint though there are tradeoffs and implications
01:05.56 pra5ad what would u want from reverse tesselation then? the isosurface?
01:06.23 pra5ad duh, of course
01:06.27 pra5ad forget i asked =)
01:06.28 Guu` I've never heard of i asked =), pra5ad!
01:06.39 pra5ad o.0?
01:07.30 brlcad this is a half-assed difference between csg and brep http://www.cadcamcenter.com/cadcam/solid_modeling.htm
01:07.39 brlcad there are better sites
01:07.49 brlcad but it's a quick summary
01:08.55 brlcad example, for a sphere _primitive_, brl-cad doesn't store spline curves/patches or triangles or wire edges -- it simply stores the position and radius and denotes it as a sphere object
01:10.04 pra5ad right
01:10.20 brlcad so when a ray is shot against it, it performs the mathematical line-vs-sphere intersection equation which basically boils down to a simple quadratic equation like you learned in algebra
01:11.13 brlcad for a spline brep, the computation is considerably more intense as you have to evaluate your intersection with spline patches to determine if you are inside or not, whether you hit or not, etc
01:11.38 brlcad instead of just -b +- sqrt(b^2 - 4ac) / 2a
01:12.34 pra5ad right
01:13.41 pra5ad heh have u seen the brlcad wiki discussion page?
01:16.27 brlcad oh, discussion? no
01:16.53 brlcad ah, heh
01:16.58 brlcad i wondered the same thing.. ;)
01:17.06 brlcad some m1a1 fan beefed up the paragraph
01:25.21 ``Erik all your tank are belong to my butt
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01:38.10 enginuitor What, no RPMs? :-D
01:40.17 brlcad heh
01:41.09 brlcad used to make rpms, i'm sure we'll make them again here soon too
01:41.19 ``Erik hm, thought we had one in the archive, heh
01:41.21 brlcad just more pressing issues than fixing the rpm sripts ;)
01:41.36 ``Erik was that back in 6?
01:42.00 ``Erik tell wendy that my ueber-guruism is needed or something o.O heh
01:42.02 brlcad all of the 6 releases had rpms, that's how the linux binaries were officially made
01:42.17 brlcad old cake build system had an rpm step that was "turn key"
01:42.48 ``Erik I put in a make target and had an rpm spec file generated from a .in
01:42.53 ``Erik why'd you break it?
01:43.06 brlcad pra5ad: so got that lod done yet? folks lined up asking for it ;)
01:43.21 ``Erik I also had some of a debian build in there, too, iirc... if not, I have the make target somewhere that I can c&p
01:43.24 brlcad i didn't break it.. I just put it into it's own file :)
01:43.56 brlcad the spec file is still there somewhere, misc i think
01:44.17 brlcad rpm would be trivial to revive... just a matter of priority
01:44.37 ``Erik shut up and tell wendy that my ueber-guru-ism is needed.
01:44.38 ``Erik :D
01:45.48 brlcad easier to just write code and get some analyst backing your work ;)
01:46.00 ``Erik heh
01:46.07 ``Erik what analyst is gonna back build-system fixes?
01:46.31 brlcad nah, that'd just be fluff for something else
01:46.43 brlcad like the reverse tesselator!
01:47.15 ``Erik heh, that's a nontrivial operation
01:47.27 brlcad pra5ad: reverse tesselation would go from either surface points and/or triangles (with maybe even the presumption of inside/outside still being known)
01:47.29 enginuitor Silly question, but which of the 435 executables in the bin/ directory starts the program?
01:47.31 enginuitor :-D
01:47.40 brlcad enginuitor: they all start _some_ program ;)
01:47.42 ``Erik they all start a program
01:47.48 enginuitor :-D
01:47.53 ``Erik but you probably want the gui thingy, which is mged
01:47.54 brlcad you're probably interested in the modeler if you're just getting started
01:47.58 enginuitor yup
01:48.00 enginuitor Thanks
01:48.15 brlcad it requires training/learning/reading :)
01:48.20 enginuitor ...and so it begins
01:48.21 brlcad moderately complex
01:48.28 brlcad there are manuals on the website
01:48.46 brlcad suggest reading all of volume I just to get some context (it's a short 1,2-pager)
01:48.50 enginuitor First, I must install this "libtermio.so.1" that it's complaining about
01:49.00 brlcad then work through the tutorials in volume II "intro to mged"
01:49.10 ``Erik export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/brlcad/lib
01:49.47 brlcad if it's complaining about it, probably didn't install it -- might need to install it from rpm or compile brl-cad yourself
01:50.01 enginuitor Ah, it's working now
01:50.03 brlcad the binary distributions need to be more religious about --enable-everything
01:50.05 ``Erik an rpm should fail on dependancy...
01:50.34 brlcad and the package systems should be more religious on eiter --disable-everything or --enable-everything
01:50.44 enginuitor ``Erik: How might I go about causing that to happen automatically so that I don't have to set that path each time?
01:50.44 ``Erik heh
01:51.01 ``Erik you use leenwx, enginuitor?
01:51.15 enginuitor Haven't heard of it, so I'm guessing not ;)
01:51.19 ``Erik linux?
01:51.36 brlcad noticed that while the itcl/itk checks in configure work now, mged/bwish doesn't properly adapt to the twisted auto_path
01:51.37 ``Erik actually, what shell do you use... bash?
01:51.44 enginuitor ahh
01:51.48 enginuitor Yes, Bash
01:51.54 ``Erik indeed, sean, I noticed that as well... libbu shits itself :(
01:52.09 ``Erik edit .bashrc and put "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/brlcad/lib" in it
01:52.15 enginuitor ok
01:52.17 ``Erik and also, add /path/to/brlcad/bin to the PATH
01:52.28 ``Erik and perhaps do export BRLCAD_ROOT=/path/to/brlcad
01:52.32 ``Erik (root or home?)
01:52.40 enginuitor /usr/local/brlcad
01:53.11 enginuitor Ow, I can barely read the menu titles
01:53.18 enginuitor Is it possible to change their font?
01:53.26 brlcad yes
01:53.40 brlcad file->preferences->font or somesuch
01:55.42 ``Erik holy shit, that was awesome... she burned him so good
01:56.44 brlcad ack, dont' set BRLCAD_ROOT!
01:56.55 ``Erik not anymore? heh, woops, sorry :D
01:57.12 brlcad only if the binary gets relocated to something other than the --prefix
01:57.42 enginuitor Hmm... is there something in particular I must do to cause my new settings to be preserved when I exit?
01:57.43 brlcad yeah, it took a few releases to "get it right"
01:57.49 brlcad trying to make it die
01:57.56 enginuitor I changed the font settings, then exited and restarted, and they had reverted
01:58.06 brlcad for the benchmark, there are like a dozen env vars that can be set
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01:58.20 brlcad enginuitor: hit the update .mgedrc button on the file menu
01:58.24 ``Erik yeah, fixing DB_DIR, LOG_DIR and PIX_DIR didn't fix it for finding db, log, or pix files.
01:58.25 brlcad after changing the settings
01:58.33 enginuitor Ahh, thanks
01:58.41 brlcad it's not DB_DIR, just DB=,PIX=, etc
01:58.46 ``Erik yeah
01:58.51 ``Erik heh, I looked at the script to find 'em
01:59.03 ``Erik but they didn't work for some reason, something at the end failed with a "perf.sh" or something
01:59.15 ``Erik I surspect something got broken and an old benchmark script was being left
01:59.17 brlcad ahh, that's right -- it was a hardwired bad path search for pref.sh in one version
01:59.50 brlcad should have just pulled a new benchmark script from a checkout -- would have worked outright
02:01.19 brlcad should smoke the current leader
02:03.18 enginuitor I have a "BRL-CAD Tutorial Series: Volume II - Introduction to MGED" PDF here that says it's from April 2001... is there anything more recent out?
02:04.31 brlcad for where you're starting, that's still completely relevant
02:05.01 brlcad some of the screenshots might be slightly different, some menus renamed/moved, but feature-wise and the tutorials should be unchanged
02:05.23 brlcad I could regenerate the pdf and slap a 2006 on it if it'd make you happy, but the contents wouldn't change ;)
02:06.44 enginuitor hehee, ok
02:07.11 enginuitor Quick question... what's the command to create a new database? The tutorial only covers doing it with the mouse (yech!) :-D
02:07.25 enginuitor "new" isn't it, apparently ;)
02:09.25 brlcad opendb will do it on the mged command line
02:09.41 brlcad or if you specify a filename when you invoke mged (e.g. mged foo.g)
02:12.59 enginuitor ok, thanks
02:25.40 enginuitor Uh-oh... my hands slipped on the keyboard, and now my model is rotating around on its own
02:25.44 enginuitor What did I press?
02:25.49 enginuitor ...and how do I make it stop? :)
02:27.54 enginuitor helllllp
02:34.57 ``Erik OMG, pull the power cord, the cpu is going into fission mode! it's gonna EEEXXXPPPLLLLOOOODDDDEEEEE
02:35.02 ``Erik (sorry, I'll shut up and behave)
02:35.27 ``Erik (I don't know how to fix that... I'm lost in the gui thingy)
02:35.42 ``Erik I can't use it, I just code it :(
02:41.02 enginuitor hehee
02:41.07 enginuitor I exited :)
02:42.04 enginuitor MGED looks really promising, but since this project has to be done by the 14th, I think I'll get out some paper and a pencil
02:42.07 enginuitor :-d
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03:01.57 brlcad press 0 to stop
03:02.09 brlcad xX yY zZ rotate
03:04.38 enginuitor ahh :)
03:05.08 PrezKennedy the web 2.0 is coming and we're all doomed
03:05.35 brlcad i should also bind esc to stop.. it's a common "uh oh" :)
03:05.47 ``Erik man, get with the times, they're already writing about web 3.0
03:06.24 PrezKennedy if it sucks like version 2, the WWW will implode
03:06.41 ``Erik why does '2.0' suck?
03:07.05 ``Erik (and the web has sucked every since trumpet winsock came out)
03:07.32 enginuitor Neat... are there keys that will rotate the object only when they are held down?
03:07.43 PrezKennedy most of the sites that use the "web 2.0" buzzword are all the same
03:08.00 ``Erik like local.google.com ?
03:08.10 PrezKennedy like somehow i need another online calendar or portal page
03:08.32 ``Erik ... calendars and portal pages were over-used far before ajax hit the scene
03:15.24 pra5ad folks? dondesta?
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06:05.04 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: OS X 10.2 doesn't have socklen_t so instead of requiring common.h, just leave it as an int and let the warnings slide for now (again?) if there are any.
06:12.49 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libmultispectral/Makefile.am liboptical/Makefile.am):
06:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: separate out libs to one-per-line, progress once again towards making the
06:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: librtms convenience library non-static-only to avoid libtool bugs on various
06:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: platforms. it is noted that the version of libtool that ships with mac os x
06:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 10.2 will not correctly function here, as it ends up adding librtms multiple
06:12.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: times as a static library (regardless of -static) resulting in muliply defined
06:12.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: symbol errors.
06:17.27 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbline.c: avoid 'y1' since AIX math.h header defines a y1()
06:19.57 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/.cvsignore: ignore tpkg
06:25.36 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/dm-X.c libdm/dm-X.c): aix Xutil.h header uses Bool #define which is provided by Xlib.h, which Xutil.h doesn't include for you. so we need to include Xlib.h first.
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06:33.17 tazoo users
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13:56.47 ``Erik nyark
15:58.00 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.MacOSX: comment on how compiling on 10.2 requires additional effort due to the busted libtool script
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19:08.40 Hex29a anyone in here use this with CAM softwarE?
19:10.47 Hex29a elo?
19:12.50 Hex29a hello?
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20:20.11 pra5ad_werk brlcad
21:17.46 ``Erik heh, "vi ~/.emacs"
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060208

05:09.32 brlcad heh, pretty cool
05:09.35 brlcad http://www.chrispaulvfx.com/ChrisPaulVFXReel2005_Big.mov
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21:36.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: better description of dbbinary based upon user feedback.
23:41.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fbed is looking for something in brlcad_data vfont path
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060209

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05:30.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: query_ray can't find nirt if not installed
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06:32.58 brlcad woot, tessellator is working
06:35.32 pra5ad commit!
06:35.44 brlcad heh
06:36.02 brlcad this is mainly proof of concept
06:36.28 brlcad everything is hard-wired right now.. but it does seem to work now
06:37.57 brlcad this poor lil glut app can't handle it, especially with all the ogl debug dots that show where it evaluated the implicit
06:41.34 brlcad bad thing about it is that it doesn't do well with low poly counts, so you end up with a tremendous number of polys -- begs for decimation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060210

00:39.55 pra5ad anyone see the gorillaz hologram performance at the grammys?
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05:35.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: smooth out the spline drawing by drawing 500 segments instead of just 50. no more chunkiness.
05:38.11 PrezKennedy chunky bad! smooth good!
05:51.22 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_sketch.c: clean-up, ws, etc.
05:52.32 brlcad heh
05:53.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: smoother sketch primitive spline drawing
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15:13.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (bench/bench.c rise/slave/slave.c): ADRT compiles happily again.
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22:00.25 enginuitor I'm pretty new to MGED... is there a way to create multiple individual parts, then attach them together in an assembly?
22:38.52 enginuitor OK, forget that... more fundamental question first...
22:39.26 enginuitor say I create a rectangular prism, then I want to edit its dimensions afterward
22:39.32 enginuitor What's the command to do that?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060211

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01:52.48 enginuitor How do I edit the dimensions of a shape?
01:54.28 enginuitor Tried "edit", "change"...
01:56.26 enginuitor "chg"...
01:56.32 enginuitor "e"...
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03:48.11 Twingy enginuitor, there is a primitive editor
03:48.30 Twingy you have to select the primitive, then a gui will let you control values
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04:22.12 cad105 hello, is it possible to model a complex object and then computationally calculate its approximate volume with brlcad?
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17:50.34 brlcad enginuitor: you go into solid edit mode to edit any primitive you make
17:50.57 brlcad the edit menu is a good place to start ;)
17:51.54 enginuitor Menu? What about the command line? :)
17:51.54 brlcad as for "create multiple individual parts, then attach them together in an assembly" .. parts in brl-cad are called 'regions', you combine regions into higher level combinations/groups to make the equivalent of an assembly
17:52.00 enginuitor ok
17:52.47 brlcad the 'sed' command will go into solid edit mode on a given primitive
17:52.58 brlcad or you can kill then, and re-'in' then
17:53.17 brlcad depending on the primitive, there are specialized commands for certain edit operations
17:54.31 enginuitor OK, I'm in solid edit mode now... the edges of the object turned white, and numbers appeared by the vertices
17:55.23 enginuitor Hold on... before I bother you any more, lemme see if the tutorial covers this...
17:55.25 enginuitor :)
17:59.17 brlcad for basic operations, you can use the tra/sca/rot commands to translate/scale/rotate etc
17:59.43 brlcad the tutorial mostly focuses on the gui of course though the commands are slowly covered over many tutorials
18:00.42 enginuitor Hmm, OK, sca works for scaling the entire object, but is there a way to directly edit the dimensions?
18:01.00 enginuitor Would it be easier just to delete it and "in" a new one?
18:01.02 brlcad if your EDITOR environment var was set correctly, you can issue the ted command on a solid to text edit a solid's parameters as well
18:03.30 brlcad if you just created the object, it is often easier to kill and in again -- you don't have to use 'in' interactively, up arrow will show the full sequence
18:04.09 enginuitor ok
18:04.18 enginuitor How do I display a shape's dimensions?
18:04.23 brlcad l object
18:05.10 enginuitor thanks
18:05.42 brlcad fwiw, since you are interested in command-line commands, there are equivalent 'apply'/'accept'/'reject' commands for solid or object edit mode
18:05.58 enginuitor ok
18:06.37 enginuitor How do I draw all?
18:06.45 enginuitor ...as opposed to typing a specific object name
18:08.09 brlcad er, what do you mean by "draw all"?
18:08.38 enginuitor Basically, I want to achieve the same effect as typing "draw ____" for each region in the database
18:08.46 enginuitor Am I not thinking right? :)
18:08.59 brlcad you can use globbing, but for drawing "everything" that is rarely never what you want for real models
18:09.04 enginuitor OK
18:09.08 brlcad at least once you have more than a few combinations
18:09.13 enginuitor Well, I've got to go drive someone somewhere
18:09.16 enginuitor Thanks for your help!
18:09.28 brlcad naming conventions on your region
18:09.35 brlcad so you can 'e *.r'
18:10.17 brlcad cheers
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19:14.08 pra5ad ack mom is trying to set me up with a girl ...
19:14.18 pra5ad damn my ethnicity
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19:19.02 brlcad woot, snow
19:20.28 pra5ad not fun
19:20.34 pra5ad wasted weekend
19:21.11 pra5ad how was the ubuntu live cd?
19:26.56 brlcad didn't have what I needed
19:27.04 brlcad pretty splash screen though
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19:50.13 docelic hi PrezKennedy
19:50.28 PrezKennedy hi
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23:16.49 pra5ad weak snow
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060212

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15:57.28 boemann hi there
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16:48.13 learner howdy boemann
17:05.18 boemann hi learner
17:06.14 boemann I have scanned irc logs and I understand brl-cad has support for nurb primitives
17:06.17 boemann cool
17:06.52 boemann maybe I should give brl-cad a testdrive
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21:10.46 ``Erik heh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060213

01:16.00 pra5ad whoa trader joes has papadums
01:16.02 pra5ad werd
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04:17.12 brlcad 3heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060214

01:55.21 Twingy grizzly nailer is much better *grunt*
02:56.02 Twingy Live is horribly gay band
02:56.24 Twingy they should change their name to Xandir
02:56.43 Twingy or.. Live action squirrel with big balls
03:08.15 brlcad heh
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04:08.11 mahesh Sean, had a question for you
04:15.35 brlcad mahesh: fire away
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04:50.32 mahesh Sean, you there?
04:52.16 brlcad still here :)
04:53.23 mahesh oh there you are
04:54.00 mahesh had a question for you
04:54.16 brlcad i'm always here in some form or another, best to just ask whatever question regardless :) i'll answer when you/I return
04:54.29 mahesh ok
04:55.45 mahesh the remote nodes after raytracing, return the application structure to the master node
04:56.03 mahesh i am trying to do a view_pixel on that application structure
04:56.25 mahesh but it is not showing up on the framebuffer
04:57.01 mahesh i want to know, if the remote nodes have actually done the work (raytrace)
04:57.16 mahesh is there a way to find out from any of the fields in that structure?
04:57.26 brlcad a_color should be set
04:57.29 mahesh like a_color or something?
04:57.57 mahesh what could be the values of a_color[]?
04:58.30 brlcad 1/1/1 if it "missed", something else otherwise
04:59.34 mahesh ok....lemme print and check
05:02.13 brlcad might be useful to raytrace a tiny picture like -s2 so you can test individual values
05:03.05 brlcad fi, right-clicking the framebuffer will report the pixel value
05:04.38 mahesh hmm...interesting. i am printing out individual values and they are all like 0.0000, 0.00000.0.39222
05:05.08 mahesh correction 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.003922
05:05.53 brlcad er, they are chars for starters :)
05:06.00 brlcad not floats
05:06.19 mahesh oh i tried without -s2 option
05:07.54 brlcad and I misspoke, 0/0/1 if it misses
05:08.05 brlcad which is what that value looks like
05:08.23 brlcad s2 is just to set the image size to 2x2
05:08.29 brlcad instead of 512x512
05:08.53 mahesh so, there is definitely something wrong on the remote node end right?
05:09.24 brlcad if it's not 0/0/1 on non-remote, then yeah :)
05:10.07 mahesh well, i can see only half the image (that is work done by master node). The other half, the rmeote node should have done it
05:10.28 brlcad should be able to turn on the ray-debug flag and see what the remote node is doing
05:10.38 brlcad how are you setting up the application structure on the remote node?
05:12.24 mahesh all the nodes have access to .g file
05:12.31 mahesh all of them do rt_dirbuild
05:12.53 mahesh then, only master does view_init
05:13.21 brlcad they have access over nfs or you manually copy it?
05:13.35 brlcad or program sends it maybe?
05:13.47 mahesh as of now, i am simulating multiple nodes on single machine
05:13.56 brlcad gotya
05:14.45 mahesh then all of them call do_frame and inturn call do_run
05:15.31 brlcad hmm
05:15.37 mahesh there i call bu_distributed which is the function where nodes get chunks of pixels
05:15.58 brlcad heh, cool
05:16.06 mahesh and then they call mpi_worker
05:16.09 mahesh similar to worker
05:16.30 mahesh master node calls do_pixel
05:16.37 mahesh other nodes return ap structure to master
05:17.05 mahesh and master calls do_pixel on the received ap
05:17.19 mahesh does it all make sense?
05:17.25 brlcad yeah, i think so
05:18.59 brlcad how are you managing the cpu resource structures?
05:19.22 mahesh hmm....haven't touched them at all
05:19.29 brlcad e.g. do_pixel() obtains the application structure from resource[cpu]
05:20.06 brlcad so you would have had to copy it into resource[cpu] before do_pixel at least.. maybe earlier
05:20.27 brlcad that would explain the black pixel "misses"
05:21.32 mahesh remote node calls the same do_pixel function
05:21.44 mahesh so is it not take care of
05:21.48 mahesh may be i am missing something here
05:23.03 brlcad as the rays are fired, the application structure is set with the details of each ray being fired
05:23.31 brlcad that's what a_ray is in the structure
05:24.56 brlcad so when it fires a run of pixels in do_run(), it ends up calling worker()
05:25.11 mahesh right
05:25.18 brlcad worker is like do_pixel(), it assumes that the application structure was stashed into resource[cpu]
05:25.26 brlcad so that it knows where to shoot the ray
05:25.33 mahesh oh i see
05:25.42 brlcad it sounds like your remote nodes are actually shooting a ray successfully
05:25.55 brlcad they are just shooting at "nothing" since they were never told in which direction
05:26.03 mahesh oh i get it
05:27.14 mahesh any clue what field needs to be fixed in my case?
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05:27.21 brlcad for each pixel, a_ray is updated with the new ray direction and worker() does it's magic (calling do_pixel())
05:27.54 brlcad you said you have master calling view_init()?
05:28.01 mahesh yeah
05:28.16 brlcad what do the remote nodes do? how do they start up?
05:29.15 mahesh at the end of do_pixel, master node does a view_pixel where as other nodes return application structure
05:29.39 brlcad that's what the master does.. what do the remote ones do? :)
05:29.40 mahesh in worker function, i store all these ap structures
05:30.05 mahesh remote nodes return ap structure to worker function
05:30.16 mahesh worker function stores them all in an array
05:30.58 mahesh once worker function is complete, the remote node send the array of ap structures back to master
05:31.51 brlcad heh, back up
05:32.03 brlcad to the beginning.. before they return their ap structure
05:32.10 mahesh ok
05:32.13 brlcad what do they do from the beginning?
05:32.41 mahesh shall i send you the worker.c file?
05:33.06 brlcad eventually, but right now, just the general overview :)
05:33.21 mahesh i thought we could both go over
05:33.27 pra5ad my back..
05:33.28 brlcad ok
05:34.42 mahesh sent
05:35.21 brlcad in general, I believe what you're going to want to do with what you have is to have the master node send his application structure to the remote nodes (or maybe even just resource[cpu] where "cpu" is each remote node..not sure if that'll work) or maybe just the ray info
05:35.44 brlcad and each remote node will take that ap structure or ray info and shoot the ray(s)
05:36.24 mahesh hmm
05:36.36 brlcad got it
05:37.16 mahesh i can start from do_run or ?
05:40.45 brlcad depends
05:40.52 brlcad is this a single-processor machine?
05:40.57 mahesh yeah
05:41.23 brlcad and brl-cad was compiled non-parallel presumably..
05:41.39 brlcad i.e. your bu_distributed() in do_run() is actually getting called
05:41.47 mahesh yeah
05:45.28 brlcad see in do_pixel() where it calls rt_shootray(a)?
05:45.51 brlcad that's where it fires the actual ray, passing the application structure that presumably was already filled in with the ray details
05:46.14 brlcad do_pixel() presumes that resource[cpu] was already set to your application structure
05:47.26 brlcad heh, yikes: struct application app[300000];
05:47.49 mahesh i know it is ugly :)
05:48.11 mahesh i just wanted to get all of them working....so...
05:48.45 mahesh so, you think resource[cpu] is not filled?
05:49.00 brlcad not, positive
05:49.11 brlcad actually, could simply be that application is never initialized
05:49.18 brlcad i don't see that anywhere
05:49.50 brlcad when rt starts, there is a global application structure that it uses/initializes
05:49.58 brlcad the parent/master node initialized it
05:49.59 mahesh right
05:50.14 brlcad the parent needs to get that ap to the client to set his global
05:50.29 mahesh where does the master initialize it?
05:51.03 brlcad it's continually initialized as the raytrace proceeds
05:51.47 brlcad if anything, should wait until after grid_setup() as that does initialize the ap structure
05:51.58 brlcad which is in do_pixel ..
05:52.11 brlcad so before bu_distributed, or inside bu_distributed
05:53.02 brlcad yeah.. inside bu_distributed
05:53.19 brlcad master should set ap to client, client should set his ap to what master sent
05:53.55 mahesh before mpi_worker is called right?
05:55.22 brlcad master sends before mpi_worker(), non-master sends ap structure back
05:55.36 brlcad not just a_color (which would be have been ap.a_color, btw)
05:55.45 mahesh got it
05:56.17 mahesh but how about resource[cpu]?
05:56.48 brlcad forget about it for now :)
05:56.49 Guu` I've never heard of about it for now :), brlcad!
05:57.00 brlcad you might even get it for free
05:57.35 brlcad that makes sense now
05:58.24 brlcad the local master has the ap structure, so his rt_shootray() is using the initialized one.. the remote nodes, however, are not so it's using them uninitialized and missing
05:59.05 brlcad you're making great progress! :)
05:59.19 mahesh making fun of me :)
05:59.26 brlcad no seriously
05:59.28 brlcad it's great
05:59.46 mahesh thanks!
05:59.54 brlcad you've had other stuff going on, i'm sure too
06:00.02 mahesh yeah
06:00.14 brlcad awesome to see code for it, and it's making sense so far
06:01.20 mahesh once i see a full image on the screen, i will start playing with some ideas i have
06:01.41 brlcad have you modified other files?
06:01.42 mahesh hopefully, the code will be much more clean and robust
06:01.45 mahesh yeah
06:02.18 mahesh functions in view.c are called only my master
06:02.23 mahesh i have changed that
06:02.35 mahesh and small changes in do.c
06:02.56 mahesh i think those are the only files i have changed (plus ofcourse main.c)
06:33.04 brlcad well, i'm excited to hear that you've gotten it to render - keep an eye on transferring the ap structure
06:33.07 brlcad you can "set" it once it's sent mby simply performing a struct copy
06:33.26 brlcad or there are examples throughout the code that do the struct copy too, it's a one-liner
06:34.40 brlcad alas, for now, I must zzz.. haven't in over 24 hours
06:36.30 mahesh sure
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11:23.18 boemann hi
11:23.34 boemann what kind of widget toolkit does brlcad use?
11:25.02 boemann and does a .deb exist?
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12:00.50 ``Erik libtk and not that I've seen
12:09.02 boemann ok thanks
12:11.48 ``Erik tho someone was talking about making a deb not too long ago
12:12.16 boemann it is listed as being worked on for the last 365 days :(
12:17.07 boemann what is the shape of the code - i mean does it show it's age - is it object oriented?
12:17.56 boemann mainly regarding rt and db
12:19.46 ``Erik uh, it's C, rt is well encapsulated and kept up to date, and I kinda think it's better than most OO stuff
12:20.21 ``Erik ancient cruft is culled on occasion, like all the k&r style is gone in favor of ansi style... o.O
12:20.33 boemann well C doesn't mean it can't be OO ;)
12:20.56 boemann in design that is
12:20.59 ``Erik true, but then you leave the world of tightly defined oo, since C affords you far more flexability
12:21.19 ``Erik the core of librt, as far as I understand, is a big honkin' struct with a couple callbacks in it
12:21.37 boemann ok
12:22.03 boemann how about opengl accel of the editor
12:22.07 ``Erik but I have only a passing knowledge of those things... most of my involvement was rewriting the build system to use automake, so 99% of my job was 'does it compile?'
12:22.19 boemann :)
12:22.43 ``Erik yeah, it has that ability, provided the appropriate display manager is used and the X you're using has ogl all ready to go
12:22.58 boemann good
12:22.59 ``Erik heh, it might even still support irisgl, too :D
12:23.12 boemann :)
12:23.31 boemann i did some iris gl once
12:25.52 boemann I'm considering joining in - though I'm not sure I wouldn't rather start from scratch with C++
12:26.39 boemann perhaps only make a C++ wrapper for the brl core
12:26.53 boemann and then make my own editor
12:28.33 boemann does brl support concurrent development from different workstations?
12:29.09 boemann not development but work
12:33.52 ``Erik um, multiple participants having the .g file open, you mean?
12:34.48 ``Erik I BELIEVE the current technique for having several people working on the same model at the same time involves having the model broken into several pieces, the people work on their own piece, then they glue the pieces together at the end into the final output file
12:35.03 ``Erik but I could be way off base with that, best to talk to brlcad when he wakes up
12:40.18 boemann where do the majority of developers live?
12:40.51 ``Erik uhm, maryland, usa, I'd imagine
12:41.05 ``Erik but there are listed developers and many contributors all over the world o.O
12:41.22 ``Erik iirc, there's been a recent surge of activity from someone in italy o.O
12:42.10 ``Erik but I think most developers work for arl, formerly known as brl... :)
12:43.11 boemann so there is real work going on
12:43.33 ``Erik yeah
12:43.38 ``Erik well
12:43.49 ``Erik sean is supposed to be working on it... (he goes by brlcad here...)
12:44.02 boemann nice to know - i don't want to involve myself in something dead
12:44.21 ``Erik lee does stuff on occasion, and when I get the excuse/time, I make some fixes for the bsd's
12:45.25 ``Erik I have to go to work, I'll be back in an hour if you have more questions... later :)
12:45.37 boemann ok bye
12:45.44 boemann i wont be here
12:46.14 boemann thanks for all the help
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18:01.35 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. Added a -sortmode option.
18:02.12 clock_ brlcad: hi, I learnt riding buttonlift today :)
18:19.20 brlcad ~buttonlift
18:19.46 brlcad ah, heh, neat
18:26.42 ``Erik skiing?
18:47.22 clock_ ``Erik: snowboarding
18:47.38 clock_ brlcad: I completed it 11 times! :)
18:50.29 clock_ brlcad: are you going bodybuilding?
18:50.57 brlcad working on it
18:51.05 brlcad competition in a couple weeks
18:51.47 clock_ brlcad: eee? Can I see your pictures?
18:51.56 brlcad heh, I don't have any pics
18:52.25 clock_ brlcad: what kind of competition?
18:52.26 brlcad i'd need to trim down some more for pics
18:52.35 brlcad lifting competition, bench
18:52.54 clock_ brlcad: hey this is interesting. Those projects whose authors do sports tend to not have problems understanding their users
18:53.20 brlcad heh
18:53.39 clock_ like OpenBSD is cool they have good user manual, funny cartoons, first fixing bugs and only then doing features, caring about security, and Theo de Raadt is said to be always in the mountains :)
18:54.02 clock_ brlcad: is it possible that iron turns into wood because of cosmic rays bombarding the atomic kernels inside?
18:54.06 ``Erik theo's also a major asshole :D but on occasion, he's not TOTALLY full of shit...
18:54.11 ``Erik at least, that's what I've heard
18:54.40 brlcad i'm going to have to trim back on the lifting though, going to join the rowing team
18:54.51 clock_ brlcad: I started with iron dumbell 10kg and it started feeling like wooden so I had to add some plates so now it reads 12.5kg but soon I got the same syndrome again
18:54.59 ``Erik what rowing team?
18:55.06 clock_ ``Erik: what does major asshole mean?
18:55.09 brlcad baltimore has a team
18:55.21 ``Erik funky
18:55.28 clock_ actually what does asshole mean? I know it's the hole into the rectum but can't imagine which personality traits it's supposed to imply.
18:55.41 ``Erik clock: an unpleasant person...
18:55.51 brlcad clock_: what's your native language? :)
18:55.58 clock_ brlcad: czech
18:56.05 clock_ hehe :)
18:56.16 clock_ brlcad: is it national competition where youre going?
18:56.35 ``Erik translation table? o.O
18:56.46 brlcad clock_: maybe that he's a "hovnohlava"? :)
18:57.15 brlcad usually implies a bit of pretencious impatience
18:57.50 brlcad ``Erik: multilingual swear list filtering system I wrote for bz has several dozen languages, swears and insults out the wazoo
18:58.15 clock_ brlcad: hovnohlava doesn't mean anything in czech
18:58.48 clock_ brlcad: we say "prijemnej jak osina v prdeli" - as pleasant as an wan in the ass
18:58.53 clock_ wan -> awn
18:59.20 brlcad clock_: maybe you could update my czech section then :)
18:59.24 brlcad http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bzflag/bzflag/misc/multilingualSwearList.txt?rev=HEAD
18:59.37 ``Erik what about "pretentious arrogant bastard"?
18:59.50 clock_ ``Erik: pretentious means that he's pretending things?
18:59.59 brlcad can fill it in with whatever swear words you can think of :) .. but has to be not just rude but blatently insulting
19:00.36 ``Erik http://m-w.com/dictionary/pretentious
19:00.41 clock_ brlcad: what kind of competition are you engaging in? Are you a serious bodybuilder?
19:00.55 clock_ brlcad: trim down == make the muscles more cut?
19:01.03 ``Erik http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshole
19:01.39 clock_ pretentive impatient unpleasant person that's exactly me :)
19:01.41 ``Erik hehehe, #2 :D do you know a jenna tools, sean?
19:02.06 clock_ No, I won't update the filtering list, because that way I would work against myself ;-)
19:02.25 clock_ but I am getting better in getting rid of these personality traits
19:02.48 clock_ and I am erasing them in the brain and filling the gained space with skills like snowboarding and skateboarding ;-)
19:03.17 ``Erik and running into trees and rocks and stuff are helping to knock them clean out of your skull? ;) *duck*
19:03.46 clock_ ``Erik: I smashed my head once when they didn't have a helmet available in the renting - after that I bought my own helmet :)
19:03.47 ``Erik adolph hitler is a swear?
19:04.15 clock_ ``Erik: adolph hilter isn't anymore, he's dead
19:04.23 ``Erik "bigbooty"? ... O.o
19:04.43 ``Erik hey, what's wrong with buttface?
19:04.44 ``Erik hehehe
19:04.46 clock_ ``Erik: hey I saw shaun white
19:05.24 clock_ ``Erik: what are you doing there in the USA so that you have so cute snowboarders?
19:05.41 ``Erik they drink milk
19:05.48 ``Erik it does a body good o.O
19:06.41 ``Erik let us know how those tits fill out.
19:06.57 brlcad jenna tools?
19:06.59 brlcad nope
19:07.31 brlcad clock_: trim down means get rid of some of my fat ;)
19:08.10 clock_ brlcad: some news on brlcad? An integrated "warhead" command with syntax warhead <x> <y> <z> <yield> <length> that makes nuclear warhead design macro?
19:08.19 brlcad clock_: aww, updating that list could be your contribution to the "clean" servers that try to impose their morality on other players :)
19:08.33 brlcad that'd be just a few lines of tcl :)
19:09.09 clock_ brlcad: how are you trimming down? Eating lots of little meals?
19:09.26 brlcad drinking less beer
19:09.32 clock_ hehe :)
19:09.38 brlcad :)
19:09.45 clock_ so it is probably not a world bodybuilding championship :)
19:09.49 brlcad though today was a regression
19:10.05 brlcad nah, not a major event, local event
19:10.15 brlcad have to start somewhere
19:11.14 brlcad ``Erik: surprisingly enough, that name is often more inciteful than most swears on some game servers
19:11.36 brlcad some of the words in the massive english section could be removed
19:12.02 brlcad the list was compiled from lots of sources and cleaned up
19:12.54 ``Erik amusing reading :)
20:23.41 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: mild sanity check, even if the directory pointer is valid, make sure the name is too before printfing
20:24.32 clock_ "mild sanity" that's a beautiful term ;-)
20:28.48 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: don't attempt to call do_titles() with an overlay_vls that hasn't been initialized. this 'also' fixes sf bug 1326045 that was fixed by another edit as well
20:30.40 brlcad heh
20:31.02 clock_ bug 1326045?
20:31.25 brlcad yes?
20:31.32 brlcad sf bug tracker ids
20:31.48 clock_ if the price of brlcad was increased 1 dollar for every bug fixed then I am already a millionaire! :)
20:31.49 brlcad your bug submission :)
20:32.31 clock_ brlcad: my muscles get bigger from lifting weight, cannot this indicate some disease? :)
20:34.13 brlcad a healty disease ;)
20:34.53 clock_ brlcad: lifting weights and then going in front of a mirror is the cheapest way to get gay porn :)
20:35.41 brlcad heh, I've never quite heard it put that way before
20:35.49 brlcad self-indulgence
20:35.51 clock_ or like the one with a god:
20:36.04 clock_ can a bodybuilder's biceps grow so big that he cannot carry it anymore?
20:36.24 brlcad probably :)
20:37.11 clock_ brlcad: on Sunday I exceeded the critical mass of sport from which there is no return back ;-)
20:37.51 clock_ brlcad: it's like a drug when I don't feel delayed onset muscle soreness my hands shake and I am nervous and I have to go doing some sport
20:38.48 brlcad how about this: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211hate
20:41.02 clock_ brlcad: what's synthol? car brake fluid?
20:42.52 brlcad steroid, i think
20:47.55 ``Erik hah
20:48.26 clock_ brlcad: that's 100% great :)
20:50.19 ``Erik "posing oil" o.O
20:50.57 ``Erik nasty, it's an oil compound that settles between muscle fibers, increasing size (but not strength)
20:58.49 clock_ brlcad: are you bodybuilding to attract women or do you already have a wife?
20:59.30 clock_ I wonder how the guy can bend his arms despite those basketballs
20:59.40 clock_ it's like boobs on the wrong place
21:00.47 brlcad clock_: I just workout to feel good, I enjoy it
21:04.43 clock_ brlcad = mental workout ;-)
21:04.49 clock_ brlcad: does your brain gain inches? :)
21:06.49 brlcad i read research papers in my spare time, but I think my head leaks .. can't remember ;)
21:11.25 ``Erik you have spare time? how'd you pull that one off?
21:13.46 brlcad during commercials between episodes of stargate and bsg
21:14.57 ``Erik heh
21:22.03 clock_ brlcad: put your muscle photo on brlcad page with label "these muscles are very solidly modelled"
21:24.30 brlcad heh
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23:54.20 ``Erik hrm
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060215

00:55.54 Twingy indeed
01:29.47 ``Erik hah
01:30.07 ``Erik daily show is showing 60's hunting safety videos as a moment of zen... celebrating cheneys recent ... incident.
03:10.28 pra5ad heh
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21:47.25 whitehawk hi
21:48.01 docelic hi
21:48.12 whitehawk I just found brlca, tried to compile it..
21:48.27 whitehawk In file included from jove_buf.c:64:
21:48.28 whitehawk ./jove.h:256: warning: built-in function 'exp' declared as non-function
21:48.28 whitehawk ./jove.h:477: error: conflicting types for 'malloc'
21:48.30 whitehawk got this..
21:49.19 whitehawk and then after some all-recursive notes compiling failed
21:49.46 docelic ok the first thing is a warning so it doesn't matter
21:50.12 whitehawk yes I know
21:50.34 docelic the malloc thing is an error. You need to look up how is malloc declaration line in jove.h, line 477, different from malloc definition in your /usr/include/malloc.h
21:51.48 docelic (Not that I use brlcad, but this is generic troubleshooting method).
21:52.09 whitehawk this is in jove.h: *malloc(),
21:52.52 docelic what platform and compiler ?
21:54.27 whitehawk linux gcc-3.4.5, glibc-2.3.6-r2, 2.6.14-ck6-2 x86_64
21:54.35 docelic If I got the context right, try replacing *malloc() to be *malloc(size_t)
21:56.07 whitehawk npoe
21:56.33 whitehawk nope
21:56.38 docelic can you give me 2 lines before and after 477 ?
21:57.26 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
21:57.26 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
21:57.26 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
21:57.26 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
21:57.26 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
21:57.43 docelic ah, yeah, that wasn't it then..
21:58.19 docelic does it tell you where is the previous definition of malloc that conflicts ?
22:08.28 brlcad howdy
22:08.38 brlcad whitehawk: that was fixed in the latest cvs
22:10.42 brlcad the fix is easy, just remove the malloc line there
22:11.01 brlcad or disable jove, you don't need it if you've never used it
22:12.02 docelic ah, hi brlcad :)
22:13.49 brlcad docelic: you had the right fix, but it needed to return void* too ;)
22:14.12 brlcad i believe the old jove code is using the old char* return format
22:17.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: geometry viewing commands/visualizations of exploded levels. mulled over this years ago, but davisson revitalized some interest/discussion.
22:21.07 whitehawk brlcad what is jove? I'm totally new to brl cad
22:21.30 brlcad it's a streamlined version of emacs, for back in the day when not every machine had an editor installed
22:21.39 brlcad "jonathan's own version of emacs"
22:22.10 docelic Yeah. It's also available as a standalone package in your distribution, so you can disable it
22:22.48 whitehawk what is the prodesktop plugin?
22:23.08 brlcad it's in the src/other directory, which is filled with optional stuff that is just provided for provenience
22:23.40 brlcad i presume you mean the protoolkit pro-engineer plugin
22:23.49 brlcad it's a plugin for pro/e
22:24.06 brlcad lets you export directly to brl-cad format from inside of pro-engineer
22:24.53 whitehawk can I import from proe inside of brlcad?
22:25.56 brlcad proe is a closed proprietary format
22:26.20 brlcad we'd have to pay 10k seat or somesuch and only distribute binaries
22:26.26 brlcad not very practical
22:26.46 brlcad there are a variety of formats that you can export from within proe that brl-cad will read
22:26.58 brlcad like stl, vrml, iges, ..
22:27.30 whitehawk iges as I remember we used that in cosmos geostar
22:29.58 *** join/#brlcad rhys (n=rhys@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com)
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22:33.02 brlcad howdy fotter
22:33.12 fotter hi there
22:33.55 fotter i wonder if anyone can help (i'm also new to irc as well...) as i'm having a problem with rt...
22:34.19 brlcad no problem, someone usually can ;)
22:35.11 fotter sorry to dive straight in :-)
22:35.26 brlcad that's the irc way ;)
22:35.50 fotter i'm in the raytrace control panel, and when i hit 'fbclear' i get an error:
22:35.56 brlcad just often won't get an immediate answer, have to hang around until someone is available to respond
22:36.23 fotter Rt Error: couldn't execute "fbclear": invalid argument
22:36.39 brlcad hmm
22:36.40 fotter ah ok, no probs, just happy whenever!
22:36.50 fotter googled etc, but couldn't find anything
22:37.09 brlcad 1) what version are you running and 2) did you set your path?
22:37.33 fotter 2) yes, my execute path includes /usr/brlcad/bin
22:38.07 brlcad ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear
22:38.32 fotter -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14973 2006-02-15 17:48 /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear
22:38.43 brlcad looks good
22:38.50 brlcad /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear -F/dev/X
22:38.57 brlcad should flash a window
22:39.02 fotter it did
22:39.34 brlcad so then.. 1)?
22:39.45 fotter 1) i downloaded the latest version today and compiled, 7.6.6
22:40.45 fotter on ubuntu 5.10
22:41.01 brlcad did you raytrace first?
22:41.04 fotter yes
22:41.09 fotter i have a nice sphere :-)
22:41.18 brlcad type fbclear into the command window
22:42.07 fotter Error: invalid command name "fbclear"
22:43.29 brlcad hmm
22:43.50 fotter other commands work from the command window - i created the sphere from there, and typing 'rt' in the command window also works
22:43.50 brlcad er, do_fbclear id_0
22:44.13 brlcad same error?
22:44.35 fotter ah right, yes, it gives Rt Error: couldn't execute "fbclear": invalid argument
22:44.46 brlcad mkay
22:44.50 brlcad puts $env(PATH)
22:46.10 brlcad (in the command window)
22:47.19 fotter Error: can't read "env(PATH)": no such variable
22:47.56 brlcad aha
22:48.35 fotter Tcl is something i know nothing about - shed some light please!
22:48.37 brlcad set env(PATH) /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin
22:48.48 brlcad try that, then click fbclear again
22:49.40 fotter thank you!!
22:49.52 brlcad well, that's only a half-fix then :)
22:49.57 brlcad that fixed it for this run of mged
22:50.10 brlcad the path isn't getting set correctly
22:50.23 brlcad in the tcl interpreter
22:50.50 brlcad which is a relatively recent change .. ubuntu seems to be the one that hits this problem
22:50.51 fotter ah ok cool. understood.
22:51.18 brlcad if you want to change sources so that it works, since you compiled ..
22:51.25 fotter no probs
22:51.29 brlcad you can edit src/mged/setup.c and search for
22:51.38 brlcad HAVE_GETENV
22:52.04 fotter am there
22:52.05 brlcad there's a line a few lines after with a "{", make that "if (0) {" and recompile and you should be golden
22:52.27 fotter so replace binpath with 0
22:52.35 brlcad no
22:52.46 fotter right, ok. in wrong place maybe
22:52.51 brlcad up a few more lines
22:53.02 brlcad right after the comment
22:53.56 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:53.59 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:54.02 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:54.05 brlcad <PROTECTED>
22:54.05 brlcad that "{"
22:54.22 fotter ah
22:54.23 fotter ok
22:54.25 brlcad change to be: if (0) {
22:54.31 fotter right got you
22:54.34 brlcad basically disabling that section
22:55.12 brlcad that's a convenience for the plethora that don't seem to know how to set their path
22:55.35 brlcad yet there's some peculiar tcl book keeping that isn't getting updated correctly
22:56.29 brlcad did you get a message when you run mged saying "unable to modify PATH" by chance?
22:57.01 fotter before correcting the error? haven't recompiled yet, so will check
22:57.37 fotter no errors written to the terminal, just the 'Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done'
22:57.49 fotter and then up pops mged
22:57.56 brlcad mkay
23:02.28 fotter if there are any other checks/help i can give i'm more than happy... just finishing compiling the new mged :-)
23:02.52 fotter so probably not the best time for help if i now have a working version though...
23:03.30 brlcad oh, there is lots, I'd love to trace down why PATH doesn't get set ;)
23:04.05 brlcad make sure that works first, though :)
23:06.49 ``Erik O.o
23:06.50 fotter will do :-) just typed 'make install', although i guess i could have just copied across the mged binary?
23:07.03 fotter but anyway, it works perfectly. thank you!
23:07.11 brlcad good to know
23:07.15 brlcad care to try one more edit?
23:07.21 fotter no probs
23:07.35 brlcad change that same line to if (1) {
23:08.10 brlcad and add this right before the "# ifdef HAVE_PUTENV" line below
23:08.34 fotter ok
23:08.34 brlcad <PROTECTED>
23:08.34 brlcad <PROTECTED>
23:08.35 brlcad <PROTECTED>
23:08.53 brlcad those three lines right before the HAVE_PUTENV line
23:09.15 brlcad then if you compile and make install, it should report two lines when you run mged.. and hopefully still work
23:09.17 fotter ok they're in
23:10.12 fotter just waiting for it to compile
23:16.00 fotter OLD_PATH = /usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin
23:16.00 fotter NEW_PATH = PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin
23:16.17 brlcad woah
23:16.27 fotter but it has failed to load...
23:17.03 brlcad failed to load?
23:17.26 fotter it's just written 'Detached' to the terminal and quit, given the terminal back to me
23:18.56 brlcad run mged with the -c option
23:19.30 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:19.30 fotter BRL-CAD Release 7.6.6 Geometry Editor (MGED)
23:19.31 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:19.31 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:19.34 fotter the paths above
23:19.37 fotter and then
23:19.41 fotter Segmentation fault
23:20.14 brlcad a segfault?.. hrmph
23:20.26 brlcad gdb --args mged -c
23:20.38 fotter ok
23:20.41 brlcad run
23:20.53 fotter Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
23:20.53 fotter [Switching to Thread -1218259264 (LWP 16628)]
23:20.53 fotter 0xb794fee7 in Tcl_ExternalToUtfDString (encoding=0x0,
23:20.53 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:20.53 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:20.55 fotter 811 srcLen = (*encodingPtr->lengthProc)(src);
23:21.04 brlcad type: bt
23:21.13 fotter #0 0xb794fee7 in Tcl_ExternalToUtfDString (encoding=0x0,
23:21.14 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:21.14 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:21.14 fotter #1 0xb7952b51 in Tcl_PutEnv (
23:21.14 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:21.18 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:21.18 fotter #2 0x0810bcb0 in mged_setup () at setup.c:85
23:21.20 fotter #3 0x080e1b4a in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfd46c48) at ged.c:513
23:23.23 brlcad ah
23:25.09 fotter ok... (over my head)
23:25.50 brlcad can't make that Tcl call without an interpreter, which hasn't been created/initialized yet
23:26.57 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/setup.c
23:27.09 brlcad save that file in src/mged
23:27.18 brlcad curl -O http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/setup.c
23:27.31 fotter ok
23:28.46 fotter and compile...?
23:28.56 brlcad yeah
23:34.09 brlcad how goes it?
23:35.08 fotter just installed... am about to run
23:35.32 fotter can't read "env(PATH)": no such variable
23:35.32 fotter MGED Aborted.
23:35.53 brlcad picked
23:36.14 brlcad alright, I'll have to dig deeper into what Tcl is doing
23:36.25 brlcad thanks anyways for your help
23:36.41 brlcad oh, which Tcl are you using?
23:36.48 brlcad ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
23:37.08 fotter ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
23:37.08 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.08 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.08 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.08 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.08 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.10 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.12 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.15 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.16 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.18 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.20 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.22 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.24 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.26 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.30 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.32 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.34 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.38 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.40 brlcad it is at least the right tcl
23:37.40 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.42 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.44 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.46 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.48 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.50 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.52 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.54 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.56 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:37.58 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:38.00 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:38.02 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:38.04 fotter <PROTECTED>
23:38.20 brlcad so yeah. thanks for your help :)
23:38.22 fotter ok, well if i'm around i'm more than happy to try and help... and from what i've seen of brl-cad so far i'm going to find it pretty useful
23:38.40 brlcad you did find the manual tutorial series on the website I presume?
23:38.46 fotter yes
23:39.09 brlcad if you change that block back to an if (0) { you should be back to working
23:39.17 fotter so, i guess i would have hit other commands that wouldn't have worked? but fbclear comes first in the tutorial...
23:39.19 fotter ok cheers
23:39.20 brlcad it's lower in the file
23:39.43 brlcad you wouldn't have hit many other commands that rely on the path
23:39.49 brlcad slowly been decoupling from the path
23:39.50 fotter ah ok
23:39.58 brlcad nirt might also have been a problem
23:40.05 brlcad other than that, I don't know of another
23:40.18 brlcad all the raytracers should be good
23:40.56 fotter yes typing 'rt' into the command window worked just fine.
23:43.11 fotter well thanks. and as i said, if i'm around i'm more than happy to try things out if it helps - cheers!
23:43.25 *** part/#brlcad fotter (n=fotter@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060216

01:14.37 ``Erik *yawn*
01:17.36 Twingy and now for your moment of zen
01:18.30 brlcad hehehe
01:21.18 Twingy you know what
01:21.27 Twingy my friend emily (21) knows as much about networking as mike
01:21.40 Twingy she doesn't have a CS degree either >_<
01:22.41 brlcad I know at least a dozen people that don't have a CS degree that could do .. uhm, good work
01:22.54 Twingy actually, she's 20
01:23.25 Twingy she had a good mentor though ^_^
01:23.36 Twingy *whistle*
01:23.37 brlcad you mean she's damaged goods :)
01:23.44 Twingy bah
01:24.00 Twingy harsh :)
01:24.05 Twingy if you rate
01:24.08 brlcad heh
01:24.14 Twingy then what's mike
01:24.15 Twingy :)
01:24.31 brlcad moleman comes to mind for some reason
01:24.37 Twingy hah
01:27.57 ``Erik O.o
01:28.07 ``Erik ain't she the crazy one that wanted to move in with you? o.O
01:29.25 Twingy she aint crazy, but yea, she might move here, eventually
01:29.34 Twingy well, let me rephrase
01:29.55 Twingy she's not as crazy as me, if that says anything ^_^
01:30.04 ``Erik so she's fucking nuts
01:30.08 Twingy haha
01:30.18 Twingy she doesn't build rockets...
01:30.27 Twingy yet o.O
01:30.41 Twingy she's more of the artsy type though
01:35.03 ``Erik my paper got accepted
01:35.06 ``Erik now I gotta write it :(
01:36.04 ``Erik dilbert is a riot
01:36.17 Twingy gonna bolt on a bug eater?
01:36.24 ``Erik and a triple deck wing
01:36.24 ``Erik yo
01:36.30 Twingy blue barron!
01:36.37 ``Erik gonna take down the rear tray and pull the subs out
01:36.45 Twingy rattling?
01:36.53 ``Erik yeah
01:37.02 Twingy got any sticky foam pads?
01:37.05 ``Erik the "bmw fix" was to shove a piece of foam in there
01:37.13 ``Erik the diy fix is to secure it with a bolt
01:37.24 Twingy I would use a sticky felt/foam pad
01:37.25 ``Erik I wanna pull it apart and see what's going on, I have a selection of bolts, and two pads of foam rubber
01:37.31 Twingy like the kind you put on the bottom of chair legs
01:37.31 ``Erik I will un-rattle it. Damnit.
01:37.46 Twingy I go through those things like mad
01:37.56 ``Erik I dont' have any self-adhesive foam, but I have heavy foam, and glue.
01:38.06 Twingy you don't want to glue it
01:38.27 ``Erik why not?
01:38.46 Twingy just messy
01:38.55 ``Erik tonights expedition is primarily investigative.
01:38.58 Twingy why kind of glue?
01:39.15 ``Erik slowzap or 5min epoxy
01:39.25 Twingy I'd use "Gorilla Glue" since it expands as it drys and is as strong as epoxy
01:39.35 ``Erik um
01:39.39 ``Erik <-- has limited supplies handy
01:39.42 Twingy I have some here if you want it
01:39.45 Twingy its expensive
01:39.52 ``Erik let me pull the deck down first
01:40.00 ``Erik one of the "fixes" is to shove 3 tennis balls in
01:40.05 ``Erik another is to shove a tshirt in
01:40.07 Twingy good luck :)
01:40.23 ``Erik I have an idea of the actual mechanism cuasing the issue, but I want to confirm
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03:54.02 Twingy hrm, $400 trailer
04:42.44 ``Erik there's one for $300 on, uh, powder mill road
04:43.02 ``Erik looks like a cut-off of a military vehicle
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12:34.37 clock_ brlcad: hi
12:34.53 brlcad hi
12:35.08 clock_ brlcad: I got an idea that it would be possible to make a snowboard for wheelchair users
12:35.36 clock_ brlcad: actually they could ride then like devils because they would have their centre of gravity low ;-)
12:36.16 brlcad heh
12:36.54 clock_ brlcad: can you imagine the uproar when stephen hawking gets the gold and shaun white only silver? ;-)
12:36.57 archivist i thinks its been done, saw something on telly some years ago
12:38.30 archivist methinks hawking would just fall into a black hole in the snow
12:38.32 clock_ when-i-did-this-1080-i-got-a-sudden-idea-of-new-possible-model-of-the-universe
12:40.32 clock_ or: this-machine-gave-me-the-american-voice-and-burton-gave-me-this-american-snowboard
13:53.00 ``Erik hm, I can't find the "stephen hawking extreme wheelchair" picture that was floating around on the 'net a bit ago... :/
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13:56.22 clock_ http://www.disabilitiesunlimited.org/Images/pro_wheelchair.jpg
14:04.08 ``Erik heh, yup, that's it... I was googling for 'extreme', silly me
14:06.19 ``Erik heh, yeah, that's it :D
14:10.57 clock_ stephen hawk extreme wheelchair competition ;-)
14:16.14 clock_ it's a pity that hawking has also his arms paralyzed, otherwise he could be a chick magnet like this one: http://www.teen-bodybuilding.com/site/coltwynn.htm
14:28.24 ``Erik heh
14:28.31 ``Erik I think my arms are like, four inches
14:28.32 ``Erik o.O
14:32.07 clock_ ``Erik: 4 inches diameter or circumference?
14:33.54 ``Erik circumference, heh (and I'm joking)
15:57.54 clock_ the guy with melons instead of biceps was really funny
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16:37.24 whitehawk bye
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060217

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02:36.36 justin_ hrm, my finger smells funny
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15:18.35 brlcad howdy cobbaut
15:18.50 cobbaut i
15:18.56 brlcad nice plug, I was wondering the same ;)
15:18.58 cobbaut i mean hi
15:20.11 cobbaut you mean the script...it helps me remember how i did stuff...
15:21.26 cobbaut the 'source' command doesn't seem to be documented, i found it through the 'context help' in the mged GUI
15:23.46 clock__ hmm brlcad widows port...
15:24.03 clock__ brlcad: what does kick the tires mean?
15:25.09 ``Erik o.O
15:48.58 brlcad cobbaut: actually I meant the /. comment itself ;)
15:49.14 brlcad clock__: it means to test something, to try it
15:52.24 brlcad it's a saying that comes from kicking the tires of an automobile as a means to see how sturdy/useful/reliable it is, etc
16:03.13 cobbaut brlcad: ;-) ... it was too late to get noticed or modded anyway
16:15.57 brlcad yeah, I didn't read it until it was off the mainpage
17:06.38 ``Erik kick the fires and light the tires, yo
17:06.39 ``Erik o.O
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22:53.21 daggerr does anyone know of a tutorial for practical modeling with mged?
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23:06.29 daggerr anyone here that is not idling?
23:08.13 pra5ad have u tried http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf ?
23:23.35 daggerr yes
23:24.11 daggerr have not done it all, the first half, then i've been reading the rest
23:24.38 daggerr but it does not seem to provide any means for efficient modeling, or perhaps im used to other means of modeling
23:25.26 daggerr but i'd like functions for "copy and translate", rotate and translate, and "snap to intersection" and stuff like that
23:26.34 daggerr modeling with arbitrary mositioning using the mouse is nothing that i like, and atleast i can not remember all the sizes of the objects in my models to calculate the exact positions
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060218

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00:49.29 Twingy woot, my forge burner works great
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060219

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060219

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02:43.20 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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03:41.28 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
03:48.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bwscale.c: add support for '-' as the input file to designate stdin, use libbu memory management, reorder functions, and ws.
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19:53.53 ktne hello
19:54.07 ktne i've just downloaded brlcad but i can't find from where to start
19:54.20 ktne is there some kind of "main" 3d editor?
19:54.36 clock_ mged
19:54.41 ktne ok, thx
19:54.52 clock_ brlcad: this should be added in some prominent place :)
19:55.42 ktne hmm
19:55.50 learner clock_: hmm :)
19:55.52 ktne i can't find anything familiar :)
19:56.21 learner ktne: i suggest starting with the tutorials on http://brlcad.org the first and second documents
19:56.33 ktne ok. thx
19:56.43 learner one gives a basic overview of the tools and methodologies
19:56.58 ktne how does it compare with autocad?
19:57.05 learner the other is a fairly extensive series of tutorial lessons on mged
19:57.37 learner depends entirely what you're comparing, somewhat apples and oranges
19:58.05 ktne hmm
19:58.08 learner autocad is a drafting cad package, focuses on 2d, brl-cad is a solid modeling suite, more akin to unigraphics or pro/e
19:58.26 ktne i have no idea what unigraphics and pro/e are :)
19:58.55 ktne does it perform any kind of simulation?
19:59.00 ktne or just modelling?
19:59.25 learner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling
19:59.34 ktne thanks
19:59.35 learner it simulates light and energy transport
19:59.55 learner traditional raytracing and path tracing
20:00.15 learner as well as thermal, computation of weights, moments of inertia, intersections etc
20:00.40 clock_ learner: intersections?
20:00.54 learner it doesn't perform vulnerability or stress analyses if that's what you're asking
20:01.46 learner clock_: overlapping regions/parts, collision detection.. i forget the pro/e term for it, we call them overlaps.. maybe "interferences"
20:02.00 learner yeah, interferences
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21:45.38 ``Erik w00t, finally found it, http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_kittens.jpeg
21:48.00 brlcad heh, saw that
21:48.07 brlcad and the matching ipod sock cover
21:48.56 ``Erik heh, which variant did you see? this is a parody of the 'normal' one :)
21:50.07 brlcad http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=76605.0
22:00.54 ``Erik heh, nifty
22:49.46 pra5ad my poor credit card.. =(
22:57.37 ``Erik <-- poorer
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060220

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060220

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01:39.50 Mac- hi there
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02:01.13 brlcad Mac-: howdy
02:03.13 Mac- fine and you ?
02:05.54 brlcad going great
02:08.00 brlcad ~pl
02:08.02 ibot i guess pl is sometimes referred to as \"packet loss\"
02:08.30 brlcad ~.pl
02:08.31 ibot .pl is, like, Poland (or a perl extension)
02:08.46 brlcad that's right, never seem to remember that one
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02:31.43 Mac-- sorry
02:31.57 Mac-- it was disconnect by ISP
02:51.45 brlcad no problem here ;)
02:54.08 Mac- i was here some time ago, and asked about drafting in brl-cad
02:54.26 Mac- equivalent to autocad
02:54.29 brlcad yeah, I vaguely recall
02:54.39 brlcad that's a frequent question regardless ;)
02:54.46 brlcad everyone want an autocad alternative :)
02:56.39 Mac- but now my university started subject 'CAD/CAM Systems'
02:56.48 Mac- and they talk about CATIA
02:56.57 Mac- which is solid modeling
02:57.02 brlcad there's an expensive system
02:57.06 Mac- yeah
02:57.08 Mac- right
02:57.14 Mac- very expensive
02:57.37 Mac- and i want to ask you is brl-cad equivalent for CATIA ?
02:59.14 brlcad much more equivalent than it is to autocad
02:59.42 brlcad there are plenty of features that catia does that brl-cad doesn't support, though
03:00.02 brlcad e.g. brl-cad doesn't do hardly anything related to CAM other than basic geometric management
03:00.46 Mac- for CNC ?
03:01.07 brlcad right
03:01.42 brlcad that said, it's not a far stretch to get into that area
03:01.56 brlcad it's just a focus that's never been needed or considered
03:03.01 Mac- hmm, well brl isn`t designed to CAM area ?
03:03.36 brlcad CAD, design, and even more specifically towards analyses primarily
03:03.47 brlcad rendering through raytracing, etc
03:04.00 brlcad it has been used in CAM areas
03:04.23 brlcad it's easy enough to export geometry into a format that most CNC machining systems recognize
03:04.39 brlcad and correct solidity should be preserved
03:05.14 Mac- 'should' is very expensive word in mechanic
03:05.15 Mac- :>
03:06.38 brlcad well, it is preserved, guaranteed topology up to the tolerances you select
03:06.44 Mac- ok, but i`m obnly student, my way to real CNC is like from Earth to Sun :)
03:08.14 Mac- is there any support from graphic card for work in brl ?
03:08.37 brlcad the default rendering context is via opengl
03:09.19 brlcad historically, the graphics card isn't relied upon much though as the models historically don't fit within video card memory (until very very recently)
03:11.39 Mac- i`m working on Matrox MGA G200 8MB
03:12.12 Mac- it is too weak ?
03:13.03 brlcad for brl-cad? it should be completely fine
03:13.09 brlcad our minimum requirements are pretty bare :)
03:15.06 Mac- ok, waht about memmory and CPU subsystem ?
03:16.09 brlcad there's not really a memory or cpu minimum.. that only limits the size of the models and speed it will evaluate raytraces, etc
03:16.24 brlcad maybe a minimum of a couple megs to invoke the tcl version of mged
03:17.11 Mac- but Pentium 166MHz is a little to small :>
03:18.35 brlcad brl-cad's run on stuff over the past 20 years, I've run it on old 486's with no problems
03:18.56 brlcad just slows it down ;)
03:21.33 Mac- hehe
03:23.28 Mac- i worked on AMD K6-2 450MHz for 6 years
03:23.58 Mac- but CPU got malfunction (reset by itself from time to time)
03:24.12 Mac- and now i have to byu something to replace
03:25.48 Mac- but they are 486 level?
03:34.07 ``Erik and coleco adam
03:34.10 ``Erik and c128
03:34.40 ``Erik mebbe that's why I dig those little microcontrollers and pics so much, heh
03:35.29 ``Erik fight scenes in family guy are freakin' awesome
03:40.16 brlcad the whole scene to go smack down will ferrill is hilarious
03:45.38 Mac- well something like PIII ~900MHz will be fine ?
03:51.29 pra5ad ohh no work tomorrow
03:52.54 pra5ad but i have class tomorrow
03:52.56 pra5ad nooooo
03:53.36 ``Erik ...
03:53.40 ``Erik damn you whine a lot
03:53.52 ``Erik :D
03:57.56 pra5ad old news
03:58.27 pra5ad ill be in san jose for spring break
04:07.33 ``Erik I thought san jose was a whole lot more west than south
04:19.45 pra5ad that is besides the point
04:45.22 Mac- what about SMP systems ?
06:07.01 brlcad Mac-: all the raytracers take advantage of SMP automatically by default, and can be set up for distributed systems with a little extra effort
06:08.30 Mac- nice
06:08.56 Mac- i could get 2xPIII 866MHz for ~100$
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12:42.41 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modified wdb_killtree_callback()'s call to dgo_eraseobjall_callback (i.e. parameters were out of order). Modified wdb_killtree_cmd() to call dgo_notifyWdb() to reduce the number of times observers are notified.
12:46.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Added missing parameter to dgo_eraseobjall_callback(). Added dgo_notifyWdb().
12:52.33 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Flesh out parameter list for the declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify(). Declare dgo_notifyWdb().
12:56.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Removed declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify().
13:53.03 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Update the debug version's preprocessor definitions.
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15:37.54 age could BRL-CAD be used for building models also?
15:38.48 ``Erik ... that's kinda the purpose of it :)
15:39.21 age i mean, building (structures) models
15:41.02 ``Erik there's a detailed building that comes with the package as an example
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15:41.53 Mac- re
15:42.10 age ok, my interest is in using brlcad for simulating NBCR/explosive events, on structures
15:43.28 ``Erik ARL has a group that does that, I THINK they use brlcad .g files, but I'm not sure
15:44.22 age are you with the ARL?
15:44.36 ``Erik some of us, yeah
15:45.11 age i've had back luck trying to contact govt ppl lately, whether it is ATEC or whatnot heh
15:45.31 ``Erik <-- has never talked to atec
15:45.49 age did you try to get in contact with them also? :D
15:46.23 ``Erik heh, no :)
15:46.36 age they had some good window dressing on how they evaluate devices for use in the battlefield
15:46.49 age i thought, ok, if i talk to them, maybe they will share their methodology.
15:46.53 age no such luck.
15:47.27 ``Erik there's an official brlcad email with an @arl.army.mil address, iirc, that goes to a fistful of people, I'd be surprised if you didn't get a fairly prompt response... not today of course, but tomorrow
15:48.12 ``Erik (or, if you just have questions and stuff, I'm here right now, others will wake up or something later)
15:49.06 ``Erik hrm, well, I thought there was an @arl.army.mil addy, but I'm not seeing it, heh
15:50.43 ``Erik nbc+r on structures? I can only think of a couple industry niches interested in that kinda stuff o.O
15:51.08 brlcad there was/is, it's a moderated forwardable alias -- the old mailing list addr
15:51.12 brlcad cad @
15:51.19 age erik > have you ever looked at digital sandbox?
15:51.36 age they have a very very expensive solution for doing some of that
15:51.38 ``Erik newp
15:51.47 age they do explosions only i believe
15:52.12 ``Erik blast, shock, fragments/debris, all that?
15:52.23 brlcad sounds incredibly familiar :)
15:52.38 age i'm not sure how much of it they do, but if i remember right, only explosions
15:52.58 ``Erik well, those're some of the damage mechanisms from an explosion... heh
15:53.18 age i want to do chemical agents of various types, bio agents, explosions, radiological, nuclear, etc
15:53.25 ``Erik sean, is the sf mailing list the best 'official channel' now?
15:53.31 brlcad you could rather easily simulate explosive events via the raytrace libraries, it's pretty much used in that manner already in muves to some extents
15:53.53 brlcad ``Erik: for anything non-sensitive, yeah
15:54.07 brlcad and here
15:54.22 brlcad i'd even say irc is primary, mailing list is secondary
15:54.23 age what about modeling people within the buildings also? I'd be interested in doing that too :D
15:54.23 ``Erik radiation transport can be done fairly easy, I'd imagine? (path tracing style)... chem might be a bit hairier, that seems to get more towards fem land
15:55.12 age i don't like the idea that the US govt has to pay 300,000+ for a software package to do counter terrorism planning stuff
15:55.19 brlcad there's an effort going on this year where brl-cad is being used to simulate radiation transport levels to people in situations/places
15:55.47 age what about fluid dispersion?
15:55.48 ``Erik I've seen plain csg models of humans that have enough fidelity for building and vehicle stuff... and nurb support is being improved right now
15:56.38 brlcad why pay 300k when the government has already paid millions for brl-cad over it's life ;)
15:57.01 brlcad and it's fully customizeable and "free" today at least now
15:57.33 age brldcad: i think because http://www.dsbox.com/ is an easier to use package
15:58.07 brlcad age: that is a fairly safe "no" towards fluid dispersion, don't think anyone has done that yet as fluid mechanics usually involve a completely different class of calculations
15:58.22 age and has more features specific to counter terrorism.
15:58.50 ``Erik fluid dispersion seems pretty well wedged into the FEM world
15:59.47 ``Erik if we had (better) voxel support, it's be a possibility, I'd suppose... that damn boy needs to get off his ass and do the nastran converters
16:00.02 brlcad age: i do understand the naysayers concerns, brl-cad's gui modeling interface can be painful -- nobody ever wanted to pay to make it easy to use ..
16:00.27 brlcad but this is more in-line with the libraries, not so much the tools, and the libraries are pretty easy to use
16:00.57 age is brlcad funded only by govt users of it?
16:01.11 brlcad primarily, but not solely
16:01.29 brlcad plus it's also open source now, so anyone can get in on the development
16:03.14 brlcad there's not really anything preventing you or anyone else from contributing to the project to the point that they'd actually become a core developer or core contributor (for non-devs) etc
16:10.06 age that is good, i have to see how much time i will have in the future
16:10.53 brlcad even if you can't get involved and there's something that you're interested in, it's good to raise the issues and questions on the mailing list or to even make feature requests on sf
16:11.29 brlcad they do get read several times over
16:11.54 brlcad of course unless it's something sensitive, then just contact directly
16:14.51 ``Erik heh, I thought milton was supposed to be doing that
16:15.05 brlcad heh
16:15.25 brlcad something different
16:15.28 ``Erik I was kinda hoping I'd get put on that after milton... didn't do anything at all :D
16:15.31 ``Erik ahhh, okie
16:15.57 brlcad working on auto-improving the orca human model
16:16.05 ``Erik 'auto-improving'?
16:16.07 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
16:16.16 brlcad yep, it's looking good so far
16:16.51 brlcad found a nasty bug in orca in the process
16:17.37 brlcad something trivial to fix fortunately
16:22.01 ``Erik http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20030607 *snrktkt*
16:24.13 brlcad heh
16:25.29 age Erik: the value of small teams of snipers is tying up conventional forces is vastly underrated :)
16:25.55 ``Erik true, but if they don't watch the paths to get to 'em... EXACTLY that happens
16:26.06 ``Erik I've done it and I've been done like that, hehehehhee
16:26.57 age yeah, but most infantry people become so sound aware when deployed
16:27.25 age my sense of smell became hyper sensitive also when i was deployed
16:29.21 ``Erik I'd imagine that any sense that could keep you from getting dead becomes hightened in those kind of situations o.O
16:29.47 age i just looked at the photo too, it had someone taking a shot from the knee
16:30.09 age which is something in the army we almost never do, and AA discourages if i remember right
16:30.26 age almost exclusively from the prone :D
16:30.57 ``Erik opposed to ut and quake, where most shots are taken while spinning airborne
16:31.06 ``Erik :D
16:31.28 age yeah, the unrealistic aspect of most FPSs bother me.
16:31.54 age jump through the door, land and duck, facing opposite direction, shoot.
16:31.56 age lol.
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16:32.34 ``Erik running 60mph, jumping 30 feet, landing without ever losing bead...
16:33.02 brlcad http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060130
16:33.05 age i remember AA taking breathing into affect though, which is an improvement over most FPSs
16:33.06 ``Erik laughing off hits with no ill effects, just grab a box and it's all better, do it over and over
16:33.39 age but, i remember AA discounting trigger squeeze, as if newb soldiers have perfect non pulling squeezes from the start
16:33.40 age :D
16:33.44 ``Erik only in 'aim' mode
16:33.53 ``Erik iirc
16:34.14 age yeah.
16:34.22 ``Erik one of these days, I'll get my fbsd box back up and running how it's supposed to so I can play some games again
16:34.41 age they overrate the recoil on the m249 also
16:35.05 age experienced m249/240/60 gunners, have very tight shot groups on piasters
16:35.41 ``Erik heh
16:36.19 ``Erik back when I was playing it, i tended to take medic roles...
16:36.34 age it would ruin most FPS games, but i'll tell you straight up. Nothing compares to an M249 for real life stuff
16:36.49 ``Erik massive points just to stop one dude from bleeding
16:37.48 age the m249, is only 17 lbs, cyclic rate is very fast, recoil is minimal, one person can take out squads with minimal difficulty.
16:40.20 ``Erik provided they aren't flanked
16:42.34 age also, another thing that is great about the m249 is the accuracy
16:43.01 age you can snipe with an m249, with the regular barrel
16:43.42 age put some NODs on it, and they are so sweet at night
16:43.42 ``Erik what's the dispersion numbers? do ya know? (are they public release?)
16:44.00 age i think they are public release
16:44.37 age http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/m-249_saw/index.html
16:45.07 age here it says max effective range on a point target is 600m
16:45.18 age but i think it is longer than that
16:45.42 age ditto with effectiveness on area target
16:45.54 ``Erik they don't say the radius or anything of accuracy at those distances, tho :/
16:46.10 ``Erik ah well
16:46.35 age it is really easy to clean and disassemble also
16:47.56 ``Erik against an 8x8 target at 850m, 90% hit rate out of 800 rounds (zeroed to 300m)
16:49.11 age 5.56 rounds drop out at the long ranges so skill comes into play
16:49.50 age but, i thought my m249 was much more accurate than the m60, which i was used primarily before then
16:49.51 ``Erik these were vehicle mounted computer systems and test stands, I think...
16:50.50 ``Erik aannnyyywwwaaayyysss
16:51.24 age probably not vehicle mounted, since m249s are not fired so often in vehicles
16:52.44 ``Erik this was a 'crow' system, they were testing different guns for use in it
16:52.50 ``Erik computer controlled dealie, I think
16:53.13 ``Erik *shrug* I skipped most of the slides in the pdf, was lookin' for the numbers :)
16:56.51 pra5ad buildings eh
16:58.31 ``Erik oi, prasad
16:58.48 pra5ad we used STMG (see ARA) for that
17:07.13 brlcad which should be integrated with STMG, that was someone's failure to notice the replication/need
17:07.37 brlcad they're still busy reinventing the wheel there
17:07.46 brlcad geometricly
17:09.57 pra5ad what should be integrated with stmg?
17:10.27 pra5ad o brlcad
17:13.51 age STMG looks interesting
17:14.08 pra5ad buggy as hell though
17:14.22 pra5ad here's the kicker.. its a java program
17:15.15 ``Erik *shudder*
17:15.40 age hehehe
17:19.05 pra5ad brlcad, fwiw stmg does save its models in 4 formats, and iirc one is a .g
17:20.28 ``Erik http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20031004
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17:26.41 pra5ad watched harold and kumar again
17:26.42 pra5ad =)
17:39.40 learner pra5ad, yeah, v4 ascii iirc, maybe
17:39.57 learner and it's something like simplified arbs/boxes
17:40.29 learner their internal geometry management was pathetic from what I listened to last fall
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19:43.58 pier brlcad... about g-dxf, get an error message when giving:
19:44.09 pier bash-3.00$ g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.s
19:44.09 pier db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/cubo.s'
19:44.09 pier 12 triangles written
20:06.06 brlcad pier: cubo.s is a "leaf" node, i.e. a primitive
20:06.45 brlcad converters work on a region/combination level
20:07.28 brlcad generally speaking, there is no "physical" geometry until you make a region
20:08.11 pier I made one as a matter of fact
20:08.18 brlcad it's just a template, a void space
20:08.25 pier cubo.s -> cubo.r
20:08.26 brlcad before you make a region
20:08.37 brlcad ah, great
20:08.52 brlcad so specify that instead of the .s on g-dxf
20:09.00 pier so the command I gave was faulty
20:09.10 pier ok yhanks
20:09.14 pier thanks
20:09.22 brlcad you told it to convert cubo.s
20:09.31 brlcad g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.r
20:09.32 pier yep
20:10.02 pier ok it works
20:10.40 pier brlcad... I am still working on the second volume but a bit slowly
20:12.38 brlcad no problem at all ;)
20:12.42 pier so I am not sure about when it will be ready
20:13.14 brlcad wouldn't want to shadow it with the other big announcements coming out this month and next regardless
20:13.37 pier bit in trouble with an exam these days...
20:13.50 pier about releasing a win version?
20:14.22 brlcad that's one of the big announcements
20:16.08 pier and a taste of the others...?
20:16.34 pier nevermind it it is top secret
20:16.57 brlcad no top secrets, this is open source :)
20:17.34 pier yes of course
20:19.20 brlcad most of it's in the NEWS file already, hasn't been announced in a while
20:19.40 pier ok I'll have a look at it
20:19.43 brlcad the new clone duplication command will be big news to some
20:20.38 brlcad it's a tool for very easily creating patterns of geometry, way easier than the current pattern tool
20:20.54 pier Is it to make copies of components and regions?
20:21.17 brlcad yes, in various ways through a pretty simple syntax
20:21.53 brlcad one of a handful of really powerful tools from the former GSI modeling powerhouse
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20:33.28 pier brlcad, I can't see why I am not able to import a dxf file exported with the gdxf commnd with blender as well as with ac3d
20:34.23 brlcad blender's dxf support is horrible
20:35.41 pier I'm testing this with a dxf file that ac3d can open whereas blender fails
20:36.08 pier but both of them cannot open cubo.dxf
20:36.23 brlcad keep in touch with a few of the blender devs from time to time, their support is very basic. fails on most things that autocad exports too
20:36.46 pier neithed autocad does
20:36.53 pier neither
20:37.09 brlcad if autocad doesn't then it's probably our fault ;)
20:37.14 brlcad unless it's a versioning problem
20:37.19 brlcad dxf has several versions
20:39.26 brlcad send me or post the cubo.dxf, I can at least see if it's something trivial
20:39.48 brlcad should probably get reported as a bug on the tracker
20:39.49 pier not that I am interested in it but before trying to extract triangles from the dxf file I wanted to have a go at looking the objects in these programs
20:40.15 pier ok will via ftp work
20:40.30 brlcad extract triangles? there are better exporters for that
20:40.39 brlcad stl is a very simple triangle format
20:40.59 brlcad e-mail would be better, but ftp works too
20:41.56 pier yes... I am still looking to writing a program (crappy for sure) that draws the mai view of an object
20:42.09 pier main views
20:43.10 pier removing hidden faces (the painter's algo) and drawing hidden edges with dashed lines
20:43.34 brlcad or not drawing them altogether ;)
20:45.10 pier do you think that it would be to much effort for a rookie programmer?
20:45.39 pier please give me the e:mail
20:48.14 brlcad not too much effort, anything's possible ;)
20:49.42 pier I thought that extracting all the triangles wouldn't be that hard... perhaps I am wrong
20:50.09 pier Is there a positive verse in the vertex numbering?
20:50.38 brlcad extracting the triangle is the easiest part
20:50.45 pier so that it woud be possible to work out an exiting versor from the surface?
20:52.50 pier that way it wouldn't be hard to pinpoint the hidden ones
21:00.50 brlcad possible, though that's where it gets tricky
21:01.28 brlcad i've seen some algorithms for it, but only glanced through them
21:04.07 pier I'll have a look at the dxf txt file to see if the triangles are stored cws or ccws
21:07.02 pier and let you know if I get to something
21:14.00 pier Ok bye then
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060221

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060221

01:38.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (decimate.c pixembed.c): libbu memory management
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05:49.56 pra5ad i see no difference in performance between this 6200 vs my old ti4600
05:50.00 pra5ad hrm
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20:28.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/README: initial README file that describes what is in each of the various directories in here
20:29.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: include the README in the dist
20:30.06 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: refer to the new src/README file for entries not listed in HACKING
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060222

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060222

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03:37.54 justin_ hrm
03:38.03 justin_ parallel path magnetic technology is under fire on wiki
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09:17.46 cobbaut hah! +1 insightful http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=177612&cid=14735202
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19:22.56 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060223

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060223

00:14.17 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-70-16-30-144.balt.east.verizon.net)
00:18.05 ``Erik blarggghhhhh
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00:42.38 ``Erik issues, prasad?
00:43.13 pra5ad_ trying to get wireless working on ubuntu
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03:13.04 justin_ mmm long day
03:54.08 brlcad very
03:54.15 brlcad how's that cake
04:12.22 pra5ad_ new penny arcade is hi-larious
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10:21.39 slackaddict Hi. I can't for the life of me view any .pix images on Slackware, any ideas?
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10:22.41 cobbaut goodmorning
10:23.11 slackaddict morning
10:23.15 cobbaut i started a humble attempt to create an "mged tutorial by example"
10:23.32 cobbaut it is downloadable here http://cobbaut.be/byExample.pdf
10:24.02 cobbaut please tell me what you think (and correct mistakes, since i'm not native english)
10:25.03 debianaddict ;-)
10:26.43 slackaddict cobbault: I'm just having a look at your tutorial, looks good ao far
10:27.33 cobbaut thx
10:27.56 slackaddict cobbault: can you view the .pix images on debian?
10:28.15 cobbaut what .pix images ?
10:30.16 cobbaut hmm...gimp doesn't open them
10:30.44 slackaddict if you do a raytrace of a model and output to a file I think its always .pix format
10:31.12 slackaddict ...at least I haven't found a way of outputting to a different format
10:31.44 slackaddict I've tried gimp, but it says it can't read any of the files
10:36.46 cobbaut i take screenshots of the raytrace...
10:38.57 slackaddict thats a good idea...I was trying to output images from rtwizard
10:40.36 cobbaut i tried outputting to postscript, but the image is always very small and in a corner of the postscriptpage
10:41.06 cobbaut btw, i'm a brlcad newbie
10:42.19 slackaddict I'm pretty new too
10:43.17 slackaddict ...but I have quite a bit of experience with 3d modelling
10:52.29 slackaddict cobbaut: lol i just noticed i've been writing your name wrong, sorry about that :-)
10:59.13 cobbaut happens a lot...
10:59.28 cobbaut i don't find a way to open .pix :(
11:00.20 slackaddict me too :(
11:01.30 slackaddict i don't know if its all .pix images or if brl-cad is outputting corrucpted ones
12:39.21 slackaddict I have posted a question about my .pix image problem in the help forum at sourceforge, now its time for lunch.........
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13:42.32 brlcad_ cobbaut: brl-cad .pix images are first quadrant raw images
13:43.28 brlcad_ there are a whole suite of tools in brl-cad for viewing/manipulating pix files, e.g. pix-fb -F/dev/Xl somefile.pix
13:43.59 brlcad_ since they are raw, you have to provide the image dimensions if the pix image is something other than the default of 512x512
13:45.10 brlcad_ to open a raw in gimp, rename the file to .raw and/or select raw in gimp providing the image dimenions when prompted (same goes for photoshop), you'll then need to flip the image horizontally and vertically as they both work on fourth quadrant images
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15:29.48 cobbaut brlcad: actually it was slackaddict who wanted to see .pix files, but thx for the info anyway
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21:33.07 brlcad cobbaut: yep, more just informational
21:33.33 brlcad you can also output to file and simulataneously display, e.g. use the -o file.pix and -F/dev/Xl together for example
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22:47.29 cobbaut brlcad: i tried the dcraw and ufraw plugins for gimp, but fail to open the .pix output
22:48.28 cobbaut gimp 2.2 on debian
22:57.46 cobbaut changing irc client...currently on firefox :-P
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23:47.46 ``Erik home at last
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060224

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060224

00:18.15 ``Erik ah.
00:18.16 ``Erik Choo.
00:24.25 brlcad cobbaut: it's not a plugin, gimp supports it natively, it's a simple raw image -- interleaved R G B values dumped to a file
00:24.36 brlcad but it has to be named right, .raw
00:25.10 brlcad otherwise gimp tries to parse it as an sgi ".pix" which is something different
00:28.35 brlcad ufraw is a different kind of raw afaik
00:28.48 brlcad raw from digital cameras, which is encoded different
00:30.16 brlcad unless gimp has changed in the past few years
00:41.09 brlcad bah, just tried opening it in gimp, no longer see the option I remember
00:41.29 brlcad so forgo the raw, convert to png with pix-png
00:41.46 brlcad pix-png file.pix > file.png
00:42.09 brlcad or convert to pnm pretty easily as is:
00:42.20 brlcad echo "P6
00:42.28 brlcad 512 512 255" > file.pnm
00:42.33 brlcad cat file.pix >> file.pnm
01:19.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: wavelet isn't working correctly on a simple image decomposition and reconstruction
03:05.55 justin_ another long day >_<
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12:25.03 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: allocate memory before RT_APPLICATION_INIT
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15:21.42 brlcad d_rossberg: nice catch, eek
15:25.09 d_rossberg isn't it :-)
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17:31.09 birdmun i get errors (many) after installing cygwin(complete) and after running configure and then make ... is there anywhere i can look that i havent looked?
17:31.14 birdmun for help that is
17:36.38 birdmun i guess it would be good if there was living being here
17:40.09 ``Erik O.o
17:40.29 ``Erik <-- doesn't know if it works on cygwin... what kinda errors?
17:40.46 ``Erik (and spfdmo? springfield, mo? like, 6580X?)
17:42.04 birdmun actually joplin mo
17:42.07 birdmun but close enuf
17:42.14 birdmun hour and a half
17:42.18 birdmun maybe hour
17:43.33 birdmun just a sec lemme see if i can get thru make and i will try posting ... it complains alot about hooks and some variables being defined more than once
17:45.05 birdmun not that running make is a quick thing to do lol
17:48.23 birdmun damn forgot to pipe the output to a txt file
17:58.48 birdmun a great deal of the errors are prefaced w/ a tk
18:01.41 birdmun am i to guess that the tk lib or some such item did not get installed properly?
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18:09.39 birdmun DOH!
18:09.45 birdmun wrong window
18:22.46 ``Erik libtk is built along with the system if necessary, in src/other/libtk
18:23.09 ``Erik it might be that the libtk it's trying to build is the unix variant instead of the windows variant... I don't do windows, so'z I d'no
18:23.20 ``Erik <-- lived in springfield for 8 yrs, went to smsu
18:23.42 ``Erik actually, nixa for a bit, then springfield, near battlefield for most of it
18:36.26 brlcad birdmun: cygwin should work, though I haven't tested in a few months
18:37.11 birdmun i wish i knew how to make it work
18:37.13 brlcad it might not be a clean build though shouldn't take much to get it
18:37.19 birdmun currently going to mssu
18:37.31 brlcad what's the error(s), pastebin it
18:37.33 birdmun red headed step child to smsu i guess :P
18:37.58 birdmun i should be able to pipe the make output to a txt file yes?
18:38.11 birdmun just type make >> make.txt?
18:38.19 birdmun or no?
18:39.33 brlcad make > build.log 2>&1
18:40.12 brlcad or just copy/paste
18:40.14 brlcad ~pastebin
18:40.15 ibot hmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste
18:40.29 brlcad you can paste it there, then post the url here
18:41.19 birdmun very odd ... i typed the make > ... and it seems to have hung it
18:43.00 birdmun well ... just typed make and we are off
18:43.06 birdmun i believe it takes about 20 mins
18:44.10 brlcad did it fail to build, or fail to run?
18:44.24 birdmun build ... i guess
18:44.25 brlcad and are you just looking for a binary? or looking to build?
18:44.39 birdmun i realize there is not a win32 binary yet
18:44.47 brlcad actually there are
18:45.05 birdmun ok ...
18:45.09 brlcad we've had binaries for a couple years
18:45.14 brlcad just don't distribute them :)
18:45.17 birdmun ic
18:45.21 brlcad there are issues to work out
18:45.31 brlcad we're close to doing a full "first" release
18:45.35 birdmun i see the topic says not stable
18:46.27 birdmun i have dabbled in linux and am really trying to migrate to linux from windows ... just havent gotten that far yet
18:47.20 birdmun i know i have enough knowledge to be dangerous
18:47.48 brlcad :)
18:47.58 birdmun i know this because i have managed to thrash my linux partition
18:48.01 brlcad best way is to just take the plunge and install full ;)
18:48.25 birdmun just enough that i cant figure out how to fix it or havent spent enough time to figure it out
18:49.26 birdmun my problem so far is i use my system to play games as well and windows games on linux arent just install and run affairs
18:50.55 birdmun although wine is coming along nicely from what i have been seeing
18:56.42 birdmun http://pastebin.com/570668
18:56.53 birdmun i hope that is the link i needed to paste
18:57.27 brlcad that's right
18:57.28 birdmun that being after i ./configure --disable-opengl --enable-optimized
18:58.42 brlcad hmm, it's trying to build the X11 interface to Tk
18:59.05 brlcad do you have X11 installed in cygwin?
18:59.10 brlcad headers and libs
18:59.32 birdmun when i setup cygwin i installed everything except games and mail
19:00.02 birdmun using cygwin 1.5.19-4
19:02.16 birdmun i have a shortcut on my desktop that is for Xserver
19:02.27 birdmun the icon is in my system tray
19:03.52 brlcad you can have the binary and not have the header or libs
19:04.04 brlcad configure might have failed to find it as well
19:04.15 brlcad can you mail your config.log?
19:05.15 birdmun config.log will be in the brlcad dir that i was configuring in?
19:05.45 birdmun found it
19:06.34 birdmun sent
19:06.41 brlcad okie dokie
19:07.05 birdmun i wish i were more self sufficient about thi
19:07.07 birdmun this
19:17.58 brlcad yeah, it failed to find X11 headers and libs..
19:18.12 brlcad yet you do have a undefined r
19:18.13 brlcad eference to `_XFillRectangle'
19:18.23 brlcad er, you do have a /usr/X11R6 directory
19:18.39 brlcad do you have /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ?
19:18.59 brlcad and a /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11*something*
19:20.29 birdmun i shall look
19:21.11 birdmun yes on the Xlib.h
19:23.19 birdmun no libX11*something*
19:23.38 brlcad what's in your /usr/X11R6/lib dir?
19:23.51 birdmun i realize that *something* was a 'wildcard'
19:25.17 birdmun doh
19:25.28 birdmun just a sec
19:25.32 birdmun wrong dir
19:26.15 birdmun i have a libX11-6.dll.a and a libX11.dll.a
19:34.31 brlcad hmm
19:34.35 brlcad try linking against them then
19:34.52 birdmun beyond my minor knowledge
19:34.56 brlcad make LIBS="/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.dll.a" might work
19:35.04 birdmun ok
19:35.04 brlcad if it really is a .a
19:35.10 birdmun it is
19:35.16 birdmun listed anyway
19:35.18 brlcad it's named that
19:35.26 birdmun do i need to make clean first?
19:35.32 brlcad i mean if it really is an archive, it'd be different if it was a dll
19:35.34 brlcad no
19:35.39 birdmun k
19:36.41 birdmun its off ... i will let you know in a bit
19:51.13 birdmun http://pastebin.com/570758
19:51.57 birdmun untrained eye says its something about opengl
19:52.58 birdmun being as i used the --disable-opengl switch
19:53.11 brlcad yeah
19:53.40 brlcad wrong flag
19:53.45 brlcad it's not --disable-opengl
19:53.50 brlcad --without-opengl
19:54.25 brlcad also when you paste errors, don't need to see the end of the errors, need to see the beginning of them ;)
19:54.29 brlcad from the compile line down
19:54.37 brlcad all the rest are just superfluous
19:54.55 brlcad could be two listed, could be two thousand, the first is the only one that matters
19:55.35 birdmun ic
19:56.03 birdmun well i guess im going to have to work on this later ... gf is bein a pain
19:56.07 birdmun hasta
19:56.15 birdmun thanks for the help so far
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20:31.16 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@135.105-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
20:39.05 ``Erik hmmmm
20:39.56 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
20:41.15 ``Erik pwn3d you like a car d00r, y0
20:41.18 ``Erik :D *duck*
20:42.15 Maloeran BrlCad if you don't mind, or anyone else who would know, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes?
20:42.27 Maloeran Eheh erik :)
20:44.36 ``Erik lemme go poke him for ya
20:47.15 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:47.32 Maloeran Good afternoon Justin
20:47.43 Twingy hey
20:47.50 Twingy I keep forgetting to send mark something
20:47.52 Maloeran A quick question for you, if you have 7 seconds, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes?
20:48.01 Twingy yep
20:48.05 Maloeran What's the something, if I'm allowed to know?
20:48.17 Twingy paperwork stuff that allows us to hire you
20:48.30 Twingy been really busy >_<
20:48.39 ``Erik making cardboard xserves
20:48.43 Twingy and that
20:48.49 Twingy like I said, busy
20:48.50 Maloeran So always closed volumes... You know, keeping track of rays being inside/outside volumes as they traverse the geometry would be more reliable than discarding hits excessively close to the previous intersection
20:49.21 Twingy and that's the conclusion I came to about a year ago
20:49.21 Maloeran Thanks for the answer, I have to answer Mark's concerns on this
20:49.40 Maloeran Doesn't adrt use the distance method?
20:49.41 Twingy when I was complaining to the mgmt at a bnd meeting about this
20:49.46 Twingy for what?
20:49.56 Maloeran For discarding multiple "faulty" hits near edges
20:50.04 Twingy for overlaps?
20:50.07 Maloeran Yes
20:50.40 Maloeran Maybe I'm just not up-to-date, it has been a while since we discussed that particular issue
20:50.56 Twingy if you have a chunk of steel and a chunk of copper and they overlap by 1mm, then 1mm steel + 1mm copper get counted while traversing 1 mm
20:51.06 Twingy there is no "correct" way, there is simply a "consistent" way
20:51.22 Maloeran Okay, I'm refering to overlapping triangles, when a ray hits their common boundary
20:51.40 Twingy an edge?
20:51.43 Maloeran Yes
20:52.04 Twingy um, I'm not sure what I do actually, I don't have any algorithms that bork up because of that issue
20:52.19 Twingy I think my algorithms picks one or the other though
20:52.25 Twingy -s
20:52.35 Twingy triangle 'A' -or- 'B'
20:52.41 Twingy whichever is closest
20:52.42 brlcad Maloeran: generally, they are all solid volumes
20:52.59 Maloeran And you detect "faulty" hits from rays hitting both triangles from the very rapproched distance of the two intersections
20:53.11 Maloeran Thanks brlcad, so there are exceptions?
20:53.17 Twingy I avoid stupid algorithms that try to grasp a definitive answer from like 10 rays
20:53.36 Twingy I prefer numerically integrating over the problem to converge
20:53.54 Twingy that completely eliminates small errors
20:54.19 Twingy firing 10 trillion rays where 3 rays are degenerate on an edge simply doesn't matter
20:54.32 Maloeran Well, if all volumes are definitely closed, there's another way to solve this, avoiding playing with the range of numerical errors
20:54.52 Maloeran Ah, quite ;). Just trying to address Mark's concerns
20:55.06 Twingy a good tesselator doesn't create overlaps
20:55.33 Maloeran Triangles overlap because of numerical error in the ray-triangle intersections, it's unavoidable
20:55.34 Twingy but we have crappy geometry usually
20:55.35 ``Erik too bad we don't use good tesselators (yet)
20:56.00 Twingy because of numerical instability in IEEE 754 actually
20:56.05 Maloeran Right
20:56.24 Twingy like I said, my stuff is built around not caring about LIVE -or- DIE based on 3 rays
20:56.38 Twingy I think that's a retarded way of thinking about things
20:56.42 brlcad it's not usually numerical error that results in the overlaps
20:56.46 Twingy based on todays technology available
20:56.52 brlcad it's either bonefide modeling overlaps
20:57.07 brlcad or it's a result of inadequate or at least inconsistent tessellation
20:57.23 Maloeran I'm refering to triangles sharing a common edge, brlcad. They are considered distinct entities, and a ray hitting right on the edge will hit both triangles
20:57.33 Twingy btw, you got any news with you an survice?
20:57.37 ``Erik proe->iges->proe->brlcad-bot-> ...
20:57.39 ``Erik ?
20:57.51 Twingy proe->iges->proe->brlcad->bot->adrt :)
20:58.12 brlcad ``Erik: the proe converter itself does fine to tesselate overlaps all by itself
20:58.13 Maloeran Apparently, they are almost ready to hire me to work from Canada until the visa is ready
20:58.23 Twingy on their stuff?
20:58.29 brlcad on their stuff
20:58.51 brlcad they tessellate based on alignment
20:58.57 brlcad modelers rarely align
20:59.06 Twingy modelers rarely think
20:59.10 brlcad so you end up with bolts in holes that don't match up
20:59.18 Maloeran Ahah. Nice
20:59.30 brlcad that's something I wouldn't want to care about while modeling
20:59.36 brlcad it's a bolt, it goes in the hole
21:00.08 brlcad the fact that rotating it 37.382 degrees might have helped the tessellator is a detail that is just a pita
21:00.11 Maloeran brlcad, any notable exceptions on the volumes of models you work with not being closed?
21:00.26 brlcad none come to mind
21:00.44 brlcad unless we're just playing around with something
21:00.45 Maloeran So this is pretty much a constant, okay.
21:00.50 brlcad pretty much
21:00.54 brlcad solid modeling ;)
21:01.05 Maloeran I know :), I was wondering if there were exceptions
21:01.07 Maloeran Thanks
21:01.07 brlcad otherwise we could just use a generic modeler
21:01.29 Twingy for a strong defense!
21:01.49 Twingy you coming in today?
21:01.55 Twingy mike keeps wandering in here
21:02.02 ``Erik cattleprod, dude
21:02.03 brlcad working on quantum stuff
21:02.11 Twingy I got no cattleprod
21:02.26 Twingy maybe I'll throw that broken hard drive at him
21:02.36 brlcad get that jpeg encoding working?
21:03.08 Twingy nyet, but I do have an algorithm I'm going to try coding up tonight
21:03.22 Twingy I didn't get home till past 10 last night
21:03.52 Twingy working on chucks algorithm
21:06.07 brlcad heh, that'd make for a nice book/paper
21:06.13 brlcad "chuck's algorithm"
21:06.18 Twingy yep
21:06.37 brlcad "bob's postulate"
21:06.49 brlcad "ed's conjecture"
21:06.57 Twingy "justin's color maker thingy"
21:07.14 brlcad woowwwoo woo knyuck knyuck knyuck
21:07.21 Twingy pjy would love reading those
21:07.24 Twingy pjt
21:07.31 Twingy pidgjit
21:08.09 ``Erik I wonder what he'd do if we started calling him pidjit
21:08.31 Twingy good question
21:08.36 Twingy he seems to fire people when they do good stuff
21:08.42 Twingy maybe you'd get a raise? *scratches head*
21:09.23 ``Erik heh, opposed to "you're fired!" it'd be "you're mgmt!"
21:09.47 Twingy haha
21:09.57 Twingy I might get division chief for that one
21:10.26 Maloeran Eheh. By the way Justin, for a manager, Mark did surprise me in his reply regarding the ray-tracer's specifications
21:10.42 Twingy hrm?
21:11.43 Maloeran He's just more knowledgeable on the technical stuff than I expected, he saw the potential flaw of rays hitting both triangles sharing an edge
21:11.52 Twingy ah
21:12.05 ``Erik probably cuz it's been an issue of great discussion for a while now? :)
21:12.16 Twingy for oh say, the last 25 years?
21:12.26 ``Erik the dreaded "overlap" spew
21:12.36 Maloeran Oh? :) Anyway it's solved, it was just not present in the specs draft
21:12.37 Twingy lee likes to babble about that
21:12.47 Twingy okie
21:13.07 ``Erik and the final line of the spec is "it ain't rocket science"
21:13.08 ``Erik ?
21:13.08 ``Erik :D
21:13.28 Twingy hehehe
21:13.33 Twingy *kaboom*
21:17.01 Maloeran It's there if you ever want to take a look, Justin : http://www.rayforce.net/manpages/ A first draft
21:18.01 ``Erik heh, kinda GL-ey
21:18.48 Maloeran Quite
21:19.10 ``Erik being able to deal with infiniband or myrinet without using the tcp/ip wrapper would probably be useful, no?
21:19.52 ``Erik strawberry sundaes? I think raspberry is a better choice :D
21:20.07 Maloeran That's what I thought, yes. It involves throwing all the low-level packets into the hands of the user, but I suppose that's the best solution
21:20.17 Maloeran Oh, absolutely :)
21:20.53 ``Erik those generated from roff?
21:21.36 ``Erik rtBuild, RT_HINT_FASTEST_BUILD, 'performance' should probably be singular
21:22.31 ``Erik heh, sed -i.bak s/erformances/erformance/g *
21:22.31 ``Erik o.O
21:22.32 Maloeran Ah yes, I still make this error. Thanks
21:22.44 ``Erik np :)
21:23.14 ``Erik "zero pointer"? a NULL?
21:24.19 Maloeran I prefer the use of zero, personal preference. People tend to forget the shortcuts from the fact that NULL is zero, bitwise arithmetics on multiple pointers and so on
21:24.29 Maloeran In the C standard, it's defined as the same thing anyway
21:25.46 ``Erik hm, is NULL actually guaranteed to be 0x0? I didn't think it was
21:25.46 ``Erik just like EXIT_SUCCESS isn't guaranteed to be 0, though I've never seen it otherwise
21:26.46 Maloeran NULL isn't garanteed to be 0x0, but assigning 0x0 to a pointer garantees it to be the equivalent of NULL... Go figure :p
21:30.51 Twingy nil
21:31.19 Twingy ``Erik, I feel like resuming my work on BAD
21:31.21 ``Erik nil is a good language agnostic term :)
21:31.29 ``Erik ok, do you need help interpretting?
21:31.34 Twingy nah
21:31.38 ``Erik aight
21:31.42 Twingy actually, I don't recall at this point
21:31.51 Twingy but I probly won't look at it today
21:32.01 ``Erik well, you need 3 algorithms in place to do it "for real"
21:32.05 Twingy yep
21:32.25 ``Erik and I have documentation and now reference code (java) for all 3
21:33.26 ``Erik neo over there coded it up... heh, he's been wearing big muff earphones with his ipod all freakin' day :)
21:34.04 Twingy haha
21:34.32 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:34.45 ``Erik adrt vl stuff was listed as "cancelled" at the ttm
21:34.57 ``Erik fyi
21:35.05 Twingy so? :)
21:35.39 ``Erik okie, just a minor detail, anything you do will be unexpected, so you have some cover from the magnifying glass
21:41.23 Twingy nah
21:41.27 Twingy that's why I do it off the clock :)
21:55.41 Twingy hrm
21:55.49 Twingy mike was explaining how his trigger guard gets cold
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060225

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060225

00:10.16 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@135.105-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
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01:47.36 ``Erik meh
02:51.31 pra5ad_ time
02:51.35 pra5ad_ %time
02:51.44 pra5ad_ ibot, time?
02:51.46 ibot extra, extra, read all about it, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2006.02.25 2:51:46 GMT
03:16.56 pra5ad_ ibot, time?
03:16.58 ibot You are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.25 3:16:58 GMT)
03:17.02 pra5ad_ ack
03:24.58 brlcad heh
03:38.12 pra5ad_ gl tomorrow
03:38.16 pra5ad_ bai
04:36.37 tegtmeye ibot, time?
04:36.39 ibot You are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.25 4:36:39 GMT)
05:32.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: now always outputs 4 vertices per 3DFACE
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10:03.16 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut_ (n=paul@234.136-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
11:21.47 cobbaut_ brlcad: thx for the echo .pix to .pnm tip, it works!
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17:38.50 brlcad cobbaut: yes, sometimes useful -- pix-png worked as well I presume?
17:43.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test out float-equal
19:54.41 birdmun well i came back to see if i could get somewhere today ... I managed to copy and paste error logs from my attempted make using cygwin ... anyone that could help?
21:11.56 cobbaut brlcad:.pnm is a good solution, so i didn't try pix-png...btw it's not in debian stable ;-)
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21:27.49 cobbaut ibot time
21:27.52 ibot from memory, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2006.02.25 21:27:52 GMT
21:51.06 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-60-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:34.38 brlcad cobbaut: pix-png is a brl-cad tool
23:35.31 brlcad pix-png is the "official" answer fwiw, the pnm cat is just a nifty trick
23:58.56 cobbaut oops...ok
23:59.27 brlcad there are a slew of pix-* and *-pix tools
23:59.36 brlcad for converting to/from various formats
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060226

00:00.20 brlcad pix-[tab][tab] in bash will give a list of exporters, drop of the - for a list of pix tools
00:00.29 brlcad s/of the/off the/
00:01.44 cobbaut yes, i just noticed...sorry for not trying the obvious :-/
00:03.19 brlcad pix-fb will display then, -F/dev/Xl -w640 -n480, etc
00:03.28 brlcad er, s/then/them/
00:03.44 brlcad should be manpages for most/all of them
00:05.46 cobbaut it works! pix-png is easier than the echo hack ;-)
00:06.33 cobbaut any idea why the script i posted on the forum misplaces objects ?
00:06.54 brlcad the script didn't error for me
00:06.59 brlcad was it supposed to?
00:07.39 cobbaut it puts the 135degree wall in another place
00:08.04 cobbaut i can reproduce it with screenshots if you like
00:08.24 brlcad ah, no I'll take your word on it
00:08.34 brlcad i presumed it was going to error, not simply work incorrectly
00:08.39 cobbaut i'm useing 7.6.4
00:08.49 cobbaut no, it doesn't error
00:13.00 brlcad okie, i'll give it another try then
00:14.15 pra5ad_ sean
00:14.16 pra5ad_ u win?
00:18.44 brlcad across my weight class, yep
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01:18.36 pra5ad_ what was max?
01:18.50 pra5ad_ and win by how much?
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03:06.06 ``Erik O.o
04:10.48 PrezKennedy o.0
04:25.30 brlcad 270, pretty sure I could have done 275
04:25.51 brlcad three others peaked at 265
04:27.59 ``Erik what kinda lift?
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05:50.43 brlcad bench press
07:34.41 birdmun is there life here?
08:02.00 birdmun 42?
08:09.49 pra5ad_ =)
08:13.41 birdmun worth a shot
08:14.11 birdmun so do you think i could find any help w/ brlcad this time of day?
08:15.08 pra5ad_ sometimes
08:15.18 pra5ad_ its 3am here
08:15.31 birdmun 2 here
08:15.38 birdmun am
08:17.49 pra5ad_ *shrug*
08:19.08 brlcad crazy talk
08:19.17 birdmun crazy?
08:19.47 brlcad there's plenty of time to sleep when we're dead
08:20.06 birdmun i did finally get a list of errors that doing a make in cygwin generates
08:20.40 brlcad did you add the LIBS and CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS to the X11 include dir?
08:21.07 birdmun not the c*flags no
08:22.11 brlcad if I recall correctly, you had a /usr/X11R6
08:22.12 birdmun i could send the email i drafted to send when i managed to catch you again
08:22.15 birdmun yes
08:22.24 brlcad run a make clean
08:22.32 brlcad then can rerun configure
08:22.41 brlcad what was your origianl configure line?
08:23.04 birdmun ./configure --without-opengl --enable-optimized
08:24.11 brlcad mkay, so try ./configure --without-openGgl --enable-optimized CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/X11R6/include LIBS=-lX11 LDFLAGS=-L/usr/X11R6/lib
08:24.28 brlcad er, typo in there on openGgl, otherwise should be good
08:26.09 birdmun so what do i read to learn what flags i should try
08:28.04 brlcad ah, and before you run configure, either run autogen.sh again or rm -rf *cache*
08:28.15 birdmun doh
08:28.44 brlcad there shouldn't be any flags to add, though INSTALL and ./configure --help cover the options
08:28.53 birdmun well that configure only took 3 mins 11 secs
08:29.21 brlcad you shouldn't need to add those CPPFLAGS, LDFLAGS, LIBS lines.. something is wrong with the autoconf X11 detection that came with cygwin
08:29.37 birdmun ic
08:30.02 birdmun running autogen.sh
08:30.15 birdmun shouldnt take long no?
08:30.51 birdmun i admit to not having spent much time installing software from source
08:33.02 birdmun so i need to now use the long configure line or just try ./configure?
08:33.07 brlcad give that a run, leave a note how it went and I'll reply in a few hours :)
08:33.10 brlcad the long configure line
08:33.19 birdmun alright
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09:22.37 birdmun sorry brlcad Im off to bed I will let you know how it turns out later this morning
15:35.25 birdmun well I'm back ... it did make
15:35.25 birdmun after an hour :)
15:44.59 ``Erik heh
15:52.16 birdmun dont know how long after i started the make before it finished
15:59.52 ``Erik it should say after the build
16:00.12 ``Erik there're timing scripts tied into the build system
16:02.54 birdmun it did
16:03.00 birdmun 1 hr 9 mins
16:03.50 birdmun what i meant to say was that after i went to bed i dont know how long it ran
16:04.09 birdmun sounds like a fairly hardy system :P
16:04.36 ``Erik my home box takes like 10 minutes, it's a 1.2ghz athlon
16:04.47 birdmun i wonder if it wouldnt run faster in linux
16:04.50 ``Erik winderz is horribly horribly slow at fork, and make is fork heavy
16:05.07 ``Erik big builds in cygwin take forever... small ones, too :D
16:05.13 birdmun my sys is a 2.1g athlon gig of ram
16:05.51 ``Erik it pissed me off enough that several years ago, I set up a cross compiler on fbsd to generate mingw PE binaries (was working on a video game, had to support the winiots on the team)
16:07.56 ``Erik (on a fast forking operating system with like more than 500mhz speed, disk access should be the bottleneck...)
16:09.07 ``Erik heh
16:09.32 birdmun forking i dont understand
16:10.03 ``Erik um, I think windows calls it something like ExecuteProcess
16:10.23 birdmun *dumb look*
16:10.34 birdmun *blank stare* even
16:10.42 ``Erik heh, it's not important
16:10.54 ``Erik "make" is very slow on windows
16:10.58 ``Erik that's teh bottom line
16:11.01 birdmun lol
16:11.27 birdmun the upside is it did complete
16:14.41 birdmun after rearranging the office and running make install it will be time to figure out how to use the software
16:15.33 ``Erik 'mged' is the graphical thing, but there're like 400 and something command line tools, too
16:15.46 ``Erik there's an introductory manual floating around, I believe
16:16.02 birdmun i believe you are correct
16:17.37 birdmun well i need to get this office taken care of
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16:48.56 brlcad needs to be an "intro to the whole package" tutorial, that talks about all the most useful tools
16:49.09 brlcad manual 1 just doesn't cut it
16:49.16 brlcad and 2 just focuses on mged
16:54.02 cobbaut ah, good evening...
16:54.31 cobbaut i don't know enough about brlcad to write a more complete tutorial :-(
17:00.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: write an introduction to brl-cad document that overviews the primary tools and how they can be used together.
19:59.58 justin_ I just had the most ghetto idea for changing channels
20:00.11 justin_ use "eject" to bump the channel changer
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20:18.06 brlcad heh
20:18.09 brlcad that's so bad
21:28.02 birdmun mged is supposed to be in the /usr/brlcad/bin directory correct?
21:36.18 brlcad yep
21:36.25 brlcad along with a lot of other apps
22:56.33 ``Erik cobbaut: if you started writing stuff, those of us with the knowledge but less free time would surely chime in and make suggestions/corrections
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060227

00:08.29 cobbaut Erik: i put a humble pdf on the sourceforge forum
00:09.23 cobbaut this is the link http://cobbaut.be/byExample.pdf
00:09.59 cobbaut but it is more a "by example", and not so much a tutorial, since i only know about 5 percent of brl-cad
00:10.17 cobbaut any suggestions are welcome...
00:10.55 cobbaut but not now...it is time to go to bed (past 1 am here)
00:11.01 cobbaut 'nigth
00:24.09 ``Erik whoa, cool
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02:04.27 ``Erik "oh, no one at the new yorker has an anus" heh
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02:56.20 tegtmeye anyone remember how to get the name of the appliation that is currently runnning? ie yourself
02:58.22 brlcad argv[0]
03:00.39 tegtmeye lol, besides that. I thought that there was a system call that would give you that
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03:02.13 brlcad depends how cross-platform you want to be
03:03.20 brlcad iff your system supports getprogname(), you can use that -- you need to setprogname() unless you presume bsd-style behavior (where it's run automatically for you before main())
03:03.25 tegtmeye very. need it for a library that gcc calls
03:04.06 brlcad those two are basically equiv to writing your own little function that stashes the argv[0] value in a static/global
03:05.45 tegtmeye problem is, I don't have access to the application source
03:06.24 tegtmeye so I can't stash argv[0], maybe I was thinking that getprogname was posix, been a long time...
03:07.29 brlcad afaik, there's not a posix way to get at it
03:07.58 brlcad you don't have any access to the original argv?
03:11.44 tegtmeye no. I'm building a library that does some dynamic analysis. So the uses sets up some compiler switches in gcc and links this in.
03:12.45 tegtmeye So, in general, I don;t have access to the source and I don't want to have them call mylib::init(argc,argv) or whatever
03:14.49 brlcad you can make your own routine that tries the various platform-specific ways
03:15.06 brlcad there's a win32 function, i'd have to look it up
03:15.33 ``Erik (define-syntax mycond (syntax-rules (else) ((_ (else a)) a) ((_ (p a)) (if p a)) ((_ (p a) r ...) (if p a (mycond r ...)))))
03:15.35 ``Erik sweet
03:17.01 ``Erik and, of course, the corellary... (define-syntax myif (syntax-rules () ((_ p t e) (cond (p t) (else e)))))
03:17.09 tegtmeye I thought there was a way to find out from the pid. The info has to be stored somewhere if 'ps' is getting it.
03:17.11 ``Erik *flex*
03:17.16 ``Erik getpid()
03:17.34 brlcad getprogname'll work on all the bsd, getexecname() on solaris iirc, can query /proc on linux
03:17.48 ``Erik ooh, heh
03:18.13 brlcad i believe there is a global that glibc provides as well
03:18.41 ``Erik um, there was a path expansion function that you could feed argv[0] to I think, I don't recall the name
03:19.31 brlcad program_invocation_short_name is one of the globals potentially available iirc
03:19.48 tegtmeye hmmm...
03:23.32 brlcad /proc/self/cmdline
03:25.36 tegtmeye no /proc on mac (assuming bsd as well)
03:30.04 brlcad mac has getprogname
03:30.10 brlcad there's no single-shot answer
03:30.18 brlcad i'm saying you can use the combination of them all
03:30.37 brlcad that should cover just about everyone
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03:39.55 ``Erik hrm, stat(NULL,&sb); does not give anything... useful.
03:40.12 tegtmeye is getprogname on Linux?
03:40.25 tegtmeye -rather who doesn;t have it
03:41.03 ``Erik dlinfo on null might be handy
03:42.18 brlcad getprogname isn't on linux, it's bsd
03:43.01 brlcad you'd need configure tests for the various methods
03:43.13 tegtmeye getexecname on Linux?
03:43.20 brlcad getexecname on solaris :)
03:44.03 brlcad program_invocation_short_name is provided by glibc
03:47.00 tegtmeye cool, thanks...
03:47.32 tegtmeye <poof>
04:01.05 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: wrote a manpage for the benchmark tool. need to add the alternates to bu_getprogname, separate into new file too.
04:08.51 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: doesn't test the compiler, tests a system
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04:27.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: initial manual page, pulling content from the existing script contents and word-smithing some clean-up
04:29.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: install and provide the new benchmark manpage
04:43.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
04:43.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: tried to move the PATH modifying block to after Tcl is initialized, but it still
04:43.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: seems to be causing problems for people compiling on ubuntu for some unknown
04:43.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: reason. disable the block for now until it can be investigated more fully,
04:43.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: maybe have to resort to a configure test.
05:05.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: add a comment about adding the fourth vertex for 3DFACES, massive ws cleanup/consistency
05:22.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (8 files): a variety of warning quellings, missing stdlib, calls to exit with a negative, ws.
05:23.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: jra fixed g-dxf compatibility export issue
05:24.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added manpage for benchmark
05:52.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (10 files in 5 dirs): quell warnings, missing stdlib.h, calls to exit with a negative, ws.
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06:05.32 birdmun i asked hours ago about where mged is ... problem is i dont see it in the usr/brlcad/bin dir
06:06.44 pra5ad_ did u make install?
06:09.11 birdmun yes
06:09.34 brlcad what's in your /usr/brlcad/bin dir?
06:09.41 brlcad lot of binaries?
06:09.51 pra5ad_ yes
06:10.01 birdmun 189 exe files
06:10.07 birdmun 188
06:10.08 brlcad eek
06:10.28 brlcad should be over 400
06:10.31 birdmun i guess that means make install didnt work
06:10.33 birdmun ?
06:10.34 brlcad how'd you build?
06:10.41 brlcad sounds like make install failed part way
06:10.50 brlcad or make failed, so make install failed
06:10.58 birdmun make finished
06:10.59 pra5ad_ is there a flag for ls that produces a filecount?
06:11.06 pra5ad_ or do i have to gawk
06:11.11 brlcad ls -la1 | wc
06:11.28 pra5ad_ 351
06:11.41 brlcad eh, that's not right either :P
06:11.44 pra5ad_ 913
06:12.02 brlcad nor is that
06:12.03 pra5ad_ woops
06:12.15 pra5ad_ 434
06:12.24 brlcad that's more like it
06:12.40 brlcad 438 is current iirc
06:12.53 birdmun after the make worked properly i should be able to go back to the dir and just run make install yes?
06:12.56 pra5ad_ 436
06:13.12 brlcad sure, presuming make worked
06:13.19 brlcad you should be able to go back and run make again too
06:13.23 brlcad and it should just iterate
06:14.25 birdmun when make finished it listed how long it took to make ... i ran make benchmark ... i dont recall any errors there
06:14.44 brlcad yes, but did make list any errors
06:15.25 brlcad and did mged compile
06:15.31 brlcad ls -la src/mged/mged
06:16.11 brlcad ls -la src/mged/.libs/*mged*
06:16.31 birdmun src should be in the usr/brlcad/ dir?
06:16.39 brlcad no
06:17.19 pra5ad_ Components. American components, Russian components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!
06:17.29 birdmun well mged is listed in the src/mged/ dir
06:17.40 brlcad armageddon
06:17.59 brlcad russian space station cosmonaut
06:18.25 pra5ad_ i really enjoy stupid movies
06:18.59 brlcad birdmun: well that's a good sign at least
06:19.07 brlcad so maybe make install is failing for some reason
06:19.08 birdmun i have nothing listed in the .libs dir tho
06:19.21 brlcad hmm
06:19.28 brlcad what was the first ls -la output
06:20.39 birdmun -rwxr-xr-x 1 birdmun None 15319388 Feb 26 03:38 src/mged/mged
06:20.54 brlcad hmm, so it built it static
06:20.59 brlcad is this cygwin?
06:21.01 birdmun yes
06:21.04 brlcad ahh, right
06:21.11 brlcad okay
06:21.18 brlcad libtoolism
06:21.51 brlcad so try make install again, watch for errors
06:22.49 birdmun k
06:25.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: revert the clipping plane modifications for now until they can be tested better
06:28.24 birdmun now i see an error ... no space left on device
06:28.38 birdmun ah ha
06:28.48 birdmun 10 meg free space left on that drive
06:29.01 birdmun there was 640 left hours ago
06:31.27 brlcad heh
06:31.31 brlcad yep
06:31.41 brlcad building the whole package static is going to be.. big
06:31.49 brlcad probably a gig
06:31.54 birdmun now he tells me
06:32.08 brlcad maybe not
06:32.13 brlcad maybe just a few hundred
06:32.23 birdmun already over 680
06:32.26 brlcad but you also have the build there, all the object files, libraries
06:34.25 birdmun i cleared up some space and am trying again
06:34.29 birdmun 500 meg
06:53.37 birdmun make install finished w/o errors
06:54.40 birdmun i have 434 files
06:55.18 birdmun 1.1 gig
06:55.58 brlcad heh
06:56.01 brlcad excellent
06:56.33 birdmun well im heading to bed ... although it may or may not yet be working
07:02.32 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle.h: include stdlib.h, quell warnings in libutahrle and elsewhere
07:10.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/association.c: need stdlib.h for exit()
07:17.46 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: need stdlib.h for exit(), flush streams before abort.
07:20.10 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: include stdlib.h anyways, but change the exit to a bu_bomb
07:25.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fopen_uniq.c: stdlib.h for exit()
07:43.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (10 files): quell warnings, need stdlib.h for exit routines
07:44.42 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: common file size is unsigned
07:50.40 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/vert_tree.c: bomb instead of exiting while processing the vertex nodes
07:54.02 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_rpc.c: no need to test for null, libbu memory management guarantees non-null -- include stdlib.h anyways
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08:20.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (12 files): stdlib.h warning quelling, conversions to bu_bomb instead of aborting
08:32.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_debug.c if_null.c if_remote.c): stdlib.h warning quelling
08:34.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (sh_billboard.c sh_fbm.c sh_xxx.c): stdlib.h warning quelling
09:11.01 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fbserv/fbserv.c rt/main.c): stdlib.h warning quelling
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10:09.11 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (60 files in 16 dirs): stdlib.h and exit()
10:25.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: unsigned long image lengths, quell warnings when passing to sizing funcs
10:25.16 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_fbm.c: need string.h for memcpy
10:33.45 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: unbreak lgt, #endif left in the wrong place. nix the TRUE/FALSE stuff while we're in here too
10:38.02 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: delint the socklent
12:07.11 cobbaut thx ``Erik
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22:10.48 *** join/#brlcad Loes (n=loes@kotnet-150.kulnet.kuleuven.be)
22:10.57 Loes hi
22:19.33 Loes can anyone tell me how (or where) to start with brlcad?
22:27.05 brlcad Loes: howdy and yes
22:27.20 brlcad http://brlcad.org, Documents section, docs 1 and 2
22:27.42 brlcad run mged on the command line to get started with the gui modeler, though there is a lot more to it
22:29.00 Loes i will try that, found out the installation didn't work
22:30.02 brlcad oh?
22:30.24 Loes i'm new to linux
22:30.41 Loes i tried it on my mac
22:30.51 Loes there it worked
22:31.15 Loes just going to try again :)
22:31.51 brlcad okie dokie
22:41.07 Loes compiling from source isn't working
22:41.35 Loes if I download the binaries, do I have to put them somewhere specific?
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22:48.37 ``Erik convention seems to be /usr/brlcad
22:52.01 Loes it's working! :)
22:53.09 ``Erik swank
23:20.31 Loes is it possible to make a 2D drawing from a 3D object?
23:22.16 ``Erik fundamentally, it's a trivial operation... I d'no if brlcad has the intrinsics, tho
23:22.55 ``Erik um, actually
23:22.58 ``Erik there's an app that does it
23:23.05 ``Erik "line drawing", uhhh, ron wrote it I think
23:23.14 Loes I saw there is a possibility, but I'm looking for something where I can add dimensions and comments afterward
23:23.24 ``Erik rtedge
23:29.34 brlcad heh
23:29.38 brlcad that took a while
23:29.44 ``Erik ?
23:29.51 brlcad rtwizard too, for more complex imagery
23:30.08 brlcad took a while to remember "rtedge"
23:30.20 ``Erik I had to look in the bin dir until I spotted it :(
23:30.50 brlcad Loes: there's not an automatic means to add dimensions yet, there's a tool planned for that though -- for now, that's more easily handled in an image processing application
23:31.09 ``Erik dude, all I did was rewrite the build system before I got shovelled to another project, I know very little about the sw... heh
23:31.57 Loes I see you can export it to other formats
23:32.03 brlcad tsk tsk
23:32.28 brlcad yes, there a 3d export and 2d export formats with various implications
23:33.15 Loes so I could export it to f.e. autocad, which has that feature
23:36.18 brlcad that you theoretically could
23:37.34 Loes all I'm looking for, is a program that can replace solid edge/autocad etc
23:37.51 Loes do you think brlcad can doo that?
23:38.35 Loes or is it designed for other purposes?
23:38.55 brlcad fyi, there are certain versions of autocad that don't parse their own format according to their own specification, our next release will work around it and output something more flexible to their parsers
23:39.08 brlcad it can, depends entirely on the purpose
23:39.27 Loes i'm a student mechanical engineering
23:39.33 brlcad the primary history/focus of the package of the years was solid modeling for the purpose of performing analysis/simulations
23:39.51 Loes and i'm using mac, so it's very hard to find 3d software for that
23:40.10 brlcad we've got quite a mech-e following
23:40.29 brlcad brl-cad's not a good drafter, ala autocad
23:40.31 Loes i must say, your program looks good
23:40.47 Loes (not easy though :) )
23:40.52 brlcad hence limited 2d drafting support, parametrics, dimensions, etc
23:41.10 brlcad otherwise, it is a full-fledged solid modeling system, mature and in production use
23:41.33 brlcad and it's open source and free as in beer and speech
23:41.50 Loes indeed
23:41.58 Loes that's nice (for a student)
23:41.59 brlcad so anyone can help improve it, become one of the devs
23:42.38 brlcad it's ideal for certain students, imo -- i would have loved having it as a base for my computer graphics and vision work in college
23:42.56 brlcad even single processing
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060228

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060228

00:47.45 pra5ad_ lol brlcad
00:48.10 pra5ad_ i sent in my report to the prof last week
00:48.22 pra5ad_ he sends it to APL's computational geometry guy
00:48.45 pra5ad_ no word from him since (apparently he was very interested)
00:49.06 pra5ad_ heh i'll probably see a paper on it in a couple of months
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01:18.13 tegtmeye brlcad, you around?
01:21.33 pra5ad_ .. amazon is great
01:21.41 pra5ad_ Women's Sampler
01:21.41 pra5ad_ Average Customer Review:
01:21.41 pra5ad_ Release Date: February 23, 2006
01:21.41 pra5ad_ Our Price: $25.00  
01:21.41 pra5ad_ I Own It Not interested Rate it
01:21.42 pra5ad_ <PROTECTED>
01:22.04 pra5ad_ so i can have a facial while playing gta
01:22.46 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@238-165.240.81.adsl.skynet.be)
01:23.37 tegtmeye got my book today from amazon.co.uk
01:23.49 tegtmeye saved 28$ over amazon.com
01:23.53 pra5ad_ what book
01:24.03 tegtmeye dino OS book
01:24.06 tegtmeye for school
01:24.20 pra5ad_ what school
01:24.27 tegtmeye UD
01:24.32 pra5ad_ phd?
01:24.38 tegtmeye maybe:)
01:25.03 tegtmeye you should look into it.
01:25.16 tegtmeye Cheaper than used here in the US
01:25.30 pra5ad_ hmm
01:25.32 tegtmeye even after shipping
01:26.21 pra5ad_ er
01:26.36 pra5ad_ TNG complete: 450 pounds vs $385
01:26.54 tegtmeye TNG?
01:27.39 pra5ad_ star trek: the next generation
01:27.59 tegtmeye ah
01:28.29 pra5ad_ perhaps i have special credit at .com
01:28.44 tegtmeye can anyone tell me how to set -D options from the configure invoction?
01:28.58 tegtmeye without hacking the config.h.in?
01:31.12 docelic tegtmeye, CFLAGS="-Dsomething" ./configure
01:31.57 docelic The actual variable might be named CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS or CXXFLAGS, depending on a few things, but you can set all thre
01:32.01 docelic three*
01:34.18 tegtmeye I thought there was a DEFS variable?
01:38.05 docelic Well, maybe there is, but my instructions are generic, and work unless ./configure is custom-hacked
01:44.44 tegtmeye thanks, I'm aware of how to set the flags but that isn't what I'm really looking for
01:46.35 brlcad pra5ad_: cool, hopefully something interesting can come of it, tegtmeye: yep
01:47.21 brlcad defines would be a preprocessor, hence CPPFLAGS
01:47.54 brlcad brl-cad's configure also provides a --with-cppflags set of options too
01:49.34 tegtmeye I thought that --with-... was supossed to be for including external packages;)
01:50.35 tegtmeye Do you loose the DEFS variable when setting AC_CONFIG_HEADERS?
01:50.36 brlcad you can indirectly include external packages using those --with-*flags options :)
01:51.01 tegtmeye nah, just quoting the gcc docs for ARG_WITH
01:51.07 brlcad i know
01:51.25 brlcad i'm saying, you could twist only slightly and it still "complies"
01:51.44 brlcad the --with options usually just set cflags/cppflags/ldflags, etc anyways too
01:52.03 brlcad it's reaching, but it works
01:52.19 brlcad mainly for folks that don't understand the somewhat opaque --help blather
01:54.55 tegtmeye e> Do you loose the DEFS variable when setting AC_CONFIG_HEADERS?
01:56.35 brlcad do you lose it?
01:56.39 brlcad no, not really
01:56.50 brlcad but it changes to just -DHAVE_CONFIG_H
01:59.17 tegtmeye ah... the docs seem to gloss over this a little... I guess because no one uses it for the most part.
01:59.19 tegtmeye thanks
02:01.18 brlcad you don't generally use it directly
02:01.22 brlcad automake uses it
02:02.19 tegtmeye I know, issue is, config.h will override CFLAGS if you are trying to just override a default
02:02.23 brlcad autoconf sets it to either all the defines or to the have_config_h define, automake just passes it along as a cppflag append
02:02.58 brlcad override a default?
02:03.01 brlcad like -O2 -g ?
02:03.15 tegtmeye and when I tried to #ifdef... in config.h.in, AC_DEFINE... gets lost
02:03.17 tegtmeye no
02:03.29 tegtmeye eg
02:03.39 brlcad config.h.in gets blown away
02:03.45 tegtmeye I know
02:04.35 tegtmeye you want a user selectable offset value for some foo your adding to the stack (not important)...
02:04.58 tegtmeye but you want to provide a reasonable default value that you have to reference in the code
02:05.40 tegtmeye it isn't somethign that is necessarly going to change at runtime
02:05.49 tegtmeye but
02:06.01 tegtmeye it needs to be user selectable at configure
02:06.23 tegtmeye currently have --with-whatever options but seems kinda crufty
02:06.43 tegtmeye be nice to just do
02:06.55 tegtmeye ./configure -DSTACK_OFFSET=blah
02:07.19 brlcad ./configure CPPFLAGS=-DSTACK_OFFSET=blah
02:07.26 tegtmeye _but_
02:07.39 brlcad it you do your configure.ac right, that should work
02:07.41 tegtmeye there has to be a default value
02:07.51 tegtmeye if it isn;t given
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02:10.07 tegtmeye which is why I was looking for DEFS
02:10.19 brlcad that's pretty easy, that's just a matter of tossing in a #ifndef into config.h
02:10.51 brlcad you're limiting yourself to a version of autoheader written in the last five years or so, but .. it should work
02:11.07 tegtmeye I tried taht but AC_DEFINE choked, maybe I'm missing something?
02:11.17 brlcad ah
02:11.29 brlcad ac_def is just to define something
02:11.37 brlcad not add random foo into the header
02:11.50 brlcad you want ah_verbatim
02:11.51 tegtmeye go on...
02:12.02 brlcad iirc
02:12.33 brlcad AH_VERBATIM([STACK_OFFSET], [
02:12.41 brlcad #ifndef STACK_OFFSET
02:12.50 brlcad # define STACK_OFFSET -1
02:12.53 brlcad #endif
02:12.54 brlcad })
02:13.02 brlcad sans typo
02:13.29 tegtmeye hmmm... missed that, in autoheader docs I guess then?
02:14.04 brlcad autoconf docs mention it
02:14.22 brlcad http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/autoconf/autoconf_30.html
02:14.24 tegtmeye just going to say.. plain missed that...:)
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04:53.06 pra5ad_ ibot, time
04:53.07 ibot 2006.02.28 4:53:07 GMT
04:53.17 pra5ad_ ibot, time est
04:53.27 pra5ad_ well then
04:59.14 Twingy fileserver is up
05:16.18 pra5ad_ whats in it
05:43.56 pra5ad_ ibot, time est
05:44.05 pra5ad_ useless
05:44.07 pra5ad_ ibot, time
05:44.08 ibot You are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.28 5:44:08 GMT)
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20:50.13 IngMan Hi
20:54.39 IngMan how make gears
21:00.40 pier tried to draw one out this afternoon
21:01.16 pier but making a sketch turned out being very tricky
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060301

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060301

00:18.56 *** join/#brlcad learner (n=brlcad@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
00:18.56 *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
00:31.11 Twingy mill arrived
00:32.07 archivist mill=milling machine?
00:32.50 Twingy yep
00:33.24 Twingy cnc too
00:33.34 archivist nice
00:34.08 archivist we have a toy(educational) one here at work
00:34.28 Twingy what brand?
00:34.35 archivist boxford
00:34.39 Twingy ah
00:34.49 Twingy mine is a taig with the xlyotex steppers
00:34.53 archivist english
00:36.48 archivist cad>dxf>cnc is fun
00:40.53 archivist with the occasional tool breakage
00:41.47 Twingy I'm making my own tool path editor
00:44.53 archivist dont let the tool dwell on path changes as the boxford does, tool spring etc leaves horrid marks
00:45.06 ``Erik O.o
00:45.49 Twingy erik is a tool
00:46.04 Twingy and leaves horrid marks
00:46.09 ``Erik on your MOM
00:46.10 ``Erik O.o
00:46.12 Twingy with his tar irn'
00:46.16 ``Erik heh, wow, I feel like I'm in fifth grade
00:46.34 ``Erik it's a tar arn, tyvm
00:46.35 Twingy DEY TUK R JBS!@
00:47.00 ``Erik so you got the mill today, I presume?
00:47.05 Twingy yes
00:47.09 ``Erik <-- scrolls up
00:47.11 ``Erik hurrrrrr
00:47.12 Twingy I just unboxed it
00:47.15 ``Erik swank
00:47.18 ``Erik tiny, ain't it?
00:47.25 Twingy I'm feeling rather lethargic so it's just sitting there
00:47.29 ``Erik gonna put the c&c bits on tonight?
00:47.29 ``Erik ah
00:47.29 Twingy yep
00:47.36 Twingy it's very cute $1800 toy
00:47.42 Twingy nope
00:47.51 ``Erik the c&c motors will move without the main motor running, right?
00:48.16 Twingy Tekrad what hex numbers are \r and \n
00:48.16 Twingy Topangea :-D
00:48.17 Twingy Topangea 0x13 I think is \n
00:48.19 Twingy KostiX i bet avr is alike in some stuff
00:48.21 Twingy Twingy "man ascii"
00:48.23 Twingy Topangea \r might be 0x14 or something..I don't remember
00:48.25 Twingy _Q \r == 0x0D
00:48.27 Twingy Topangea or maybe \r is
00:48.35 ``Erik so you can wrap some paper around a 2x4, stick a pencil in the chuck, and try to program it to draw things to debug/test?
00:48.36 Twingy yep
00:49.02 Twingy heh I guess, but that's too much trouble
00:49.04 ``Erik opposed to cutting up wood or cheap aluminum stock o.O
00:49.14 Twingy I don't need to cut anything
00:49.15 ``Erik do you have a micrometer?
00:49.20 Twingy meh
00:49.23 Twingy eyeball it y0
00:49.27 ``Erik heh
00:49.48 ``Erik I don't trust your eyes to measure ten thousandths :D
00:49.51 Twingy measure once, cut twice
00:50.34 Twingy I'll know shortly if this junk works
00:50.38 ``Erik swank
00:50.40 Twingy streaming tv
00:50.56 Twingy much more interesting to me right now
00:50.57 ``Erik you should try hand milling some basic things out of aluminum stock, imho
00:51.13 ``Erik just to find the right spot where c&c becomes worth it
00:51.13 Twingy go buy me a mill with hand cranks then
00:51.20 ``Erik uh, yours doesn't have 'em?
00:51.27 Twingy uh, cnc motors duh?
00:51.38 Twingy you use one or the other
00:51.42 ``Erik hrm, I've seen systems that have both...
00:51.43 archivist press da buttons then
00:51.44 ``Erik *shrug*
00:52.01 ``Erik <-- actually liked milling by hand, it was theraputic or something
00:52.05 ``Erik lathing, too
00:52.05 Twingy you're taking more interest in this than I am :)
00:52.19 brlcad up up down down left right left right a b a b [return]
00:52.33 Twingy konami codes *grunt grunt grunt*
00:52.41 ``Erik well, shit, bitch, you're talkin' about serious nostolgia stuff for me... :D 15 years ago, I was trying to figure out if that's what I wanted to do with my life
00:52.42 Twingy ba ba select start
00:53.01 Twingy guess you chose poorly
00:53.04 Twingy *duck*
00:53.05 brlcad heh
00:53.24 ``Erik damn I feel old
00:53.50 ``Erik <-- still highly amused by prasads reaction at finding out how old he is :D
00:53.50 Twingy you're going to be one of the bobs
00:54.05 ``Erik twinky, you have a real go getter attitude
00:54.12 ``Erik I'm going to recommend that we promote you to mgmt
00:54.24 Twingy cool, then I can fire your ass :)
00:54.26 ``Erik <-- ducks to avoid the backhand
00:54.26 ``Erik :D
00:55.26 Twingy forizzle
00:55.54 ``Erik man, I installed gnucash on my fbsd7 box, and the fucking pos segfaults on certain chart related functions :(
00:56.17 ``Erik sean, shouldn't you be prepping a bz release?
00:56.18 Twingy how do you feed configure arguments when it's in a port
00:56.18 brlcad what you get for trying to manage your finances
00:56.23 brlcad gotta just let em run free
00:56.23 ``Erik indeed
00:56.26 ``Erik heh
00:56.34 ``Erik uh, I have responsibilities
00:56.43 ``Erik I'm a "provider" now
00:56.45 Twingy beer + car?
00:56.51 ``Erik well, a lot less beer
00:56.52 ``Erik but that car, yes
00:56.58 ``Erik jason had a brat, I had a beast
00:56.59 ``Erik :D
00:57.04 brlcad you were sober enough to knock someone up?
00:57.14 Twingy *psst* I think he knocked his car up
00:57.25 brlcad he was doing something to it..
00:57.40 ``Erik heh, uh, she dumped me on friday, and was on the pill, haven't tagged any tail since :)
00:57.45 ``Erik I buffed it good
00:57.48 ``Erik polished the curves
00:57.49 ``Erik aw yeah
00:57.54 ``Erik got up in the tail pipes, even :o
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00:58.00 Twingy look you scared chucks son off
00:58.07 ``Erik hehehehe
00:58.27 Twingy how do you feed configure args from in the port?
00:58.40 Twingy without going into the work dir
00:58.50 Twingy or izzat the preferred method?
00:58.53 ``Erik um, the port might have knobs, grep for \..*if
00:59.00 ``Erik if it doesn't, you can do something like
00:59.03 PrezKennedy you spoke too soon!
00:59.09 ``Erik make CONFIGURE_ARGS=--enable-wozzle
00:59.11 ``Erik iirc
00:59.21 PrezKennedy darn xchat and its crashing...
00:59.26 ``Erik BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE
01:00.49 Twingy nah
01:00.53 PrezKennedy bazing
01:00.56 Twingy you just need to write a raytracer
01:01.03 ``Erik uh, right, ...
01:01.14 Twingy my raytracer gets all the girlz
01:01.17 ``Erik and how much tail have you gotten since hurley burley?
01:01.20 ``Erik none? thought so :)
01:02.14 Twingy cool, mplayer picked up live lib
01:02.21 PrezKennedy speaking of myspace stalkers... i knew a guy at UMBC who raped and killed a girl he met on myspace
01:02.32 ``Erik charming
01:02.38 PrezKennedy indeed
01:02.55 ``Erik but if she was legal, it's not newsworthy. The story of the day is statuatory rape.
01:03.01 ``Erik so says smacksnot.
01:03.19 Twingy forizzle
01:03.46 Twingy I do it for the druuuuugs
01:03.59 ``Erik hehehehe... towlie... :D
01:04.07 ``Erik remember to bring a towel!... wanna get high?
01:04.28 Twingy I get high on lee's farts
01:04.38 ``Erik y'know, I totally missed the h2g2 connection there until today after lunch...
01:04.41 ``Erik <-- slow
01:04.57 ``Erik oh, man, if I could set the topic...
01:05.07 PrezKennedy Twingy is using designer drugs
01:05.08 Twingy I had a connection to h2g2? netstat didn't say anything
01:05.27 ``Erik :o it didn't? that SLUT!
01:05.39 Twingy that's no way to speak about PrezKennedy
01:06.03 PrezKennedy :'(
01:06.11 PrezKennedy i thought you cared!!!
01:06.12 Twingy I found a use for an apple hockey puck today
01:06.24 ``Erik playing hockey with our canuckian friends?
01:06.42 Twingy do I look like some kinda fucking care bear?
01:06.47 ``Erik I don't like the hockey puck, but I do like the big pill
01:07.05 Twingy if I were care bear I'd be the one that drinks heavily and poops on children
01:07.22 Twingy can't remember the name of that one
01:07.30 brlcad hahaha, damn that's good stuff.. http://brandnew.pbwiki.com/f/0000ckza.gif
01:07.31 PrezKennedy Alcoholism bear?
01:07.37 ``Erik party bear
01:07.40 ``Erik "cool bear"
01:07.40 Twingy yes, that's it
01:07.50 Twingy and milton would be gay bear
01:08.03 ``Erik um, except it's spelled "intarweb"
01:08.04 Twingy haha
01:08.21 PrezKennedy its spell Teh Intraweb!
01:08.32 ``Erik *ghuh* should milton hop on irc and join #bearcave ?
01:08.46 Twingy he might flood himself off the channel
01:08.56 PrezKennedy no... i think not... not checking out that channel
01:08.57 Twingy that would imply you're already on the channel erik?
01:09.14 ``Erik no, I'm afraid I wasn't qualified :(
01:09.22 ``Erik <-- not fat enough, not hairy enough, and not gay enough
01:09.34 Twingy his laptop is fruity
01:09.47 Twingy I was watching sean unbreak it all day
01:09.57 Twingy he stops in every 5 minutes to see if it's fixed
01:09.58 ``Erik that old tibook?
01:10.00 Twingy yea
01:10.15 ``Erik I thought an order was put in for new macbook pros?
01:10.27 Twingy I think we should just give him that xserver in the machine room
01:10.36 ``Erik if it weren't for some minor screen damage, I think this g4 lappie would be perfect for a few yrs yet
01:10.41 Twingy yea, we'll get those as a retirement gift
01:10.59 Twingy you spill another beer?
01:11.03 ``Erik <-- not entirely sold on an xserve
01:11.10 ``Erik apple martini... and I blame you, beeyotch
01:11.11 ``Erik :D
01:11.12 Twingy not even the cardboard kind?
01:11.19 ``Erik well, teh cardboard one, sure
01:11.21 Twingy heh, I had a few of those ove rthe weekend
01:11.42 ``Erik but I think if you factor in things like admin time and cost of downtime, scsi is still the winnar in the server room
01:11.56 Twingy I think cardboard hard drives trump all
01:12.01 ``Erik I threw the idea out to a group of top tier admins, got a chunk of "yeah, what he said"
01:12.14 PrezKennedy govt top tier?
01:12.18 ``Erik <-- thinks sata is great at replacing pata, but it aint' up to scsi raid
01:12.26 ``Erik no, industry, people who have clues and make good decisions
01:12.58 PrezKennedy the first bad decision govt people make... is to join the govt
01:13.14 ``Erik meh, it depends on the persons goal
01:13.29 ``Erik the job stability is... not neglegible.
01:13.49 ``Erik <-- been canned a couple times, it can happen out of teh blue and for no good reason
01:13.55 Twingy hrm
01:13.59 ``Erik I mean, I didn't even take down an entire network at a large isp or anything
01:14.03 ``Erik :}
01:14.12 PrezKennedy hahaha
01:14.42 Twingy meh
01:14.51 ``Erik (dynsol was due to attricion, fedex was due to petty politics)
01:15.08 Twingy fedex has a good commercial
01:15.09 ``Erik attrition
01:15.13 Twingy with cavemen
01:16.07 ``Erik hehehe, the fedex political bullshit also caused most of their top shelf minds to leave for companies like google :)
01:16.18 ``Erik so I don't feel too awfully bad about all that
01:17.38 ``Erik http://www.koransky.com/Other/Teletubbies.jpg
01:18.36 Twingy checking for lt_dlopen in -lltdl... no
01:18.45 Twingy hrm, /usr/local/share/libtool15
01:18.54 Twingy tried symlinking libtool15 to libtool, still aint findin' it
01:20.04 ``Erik there's a handful of shit that has to be linked... ls /usr/local/bin/*15 might be a good starting point
01:20.14 Twingy aight
01:20.51 Twingy 253* too
01:20.55 ``Erik that's one thing that pisses me off about fbsd... the peckers maintaining the ports wont' write the scripts to figure out how to link up expected names
01:21.10 ``Erik yeah, if that's the version you use... I use libtool15, automake19, and autoconf259, usually
01:21.12 brlcad devel/libltdl15
01:21.29 brlcad tis a separate port lib
01:21.39 Twingy ah
01:21.45 ``Erik find /usr/local/bin -type s <-- on one of the fbsd boxen I rigged up shows some of the stupid
01:21.54 ``Erik meh
01:22.20 brlcad ie shoulda been a dep for whatever you're building but aparently aint
01:22.38 ``Erik you making a port of that program, justin?
01:22.56 Twingy nope
01:22.59 Twingy gotta get it working first
01:23.08 brlcad ah
01:23.21 Twingy mplayer is having trouble finding stream, with live.com support it gets further
01:23.35 Twingy I think the rtsp://<localhost>:8554/ actually needs something after the slash
01:24.04 Twingy damn
01:24.14 Twingy still missing ltdl for nemesi, the client for fenice
01:24.38 Twingy /usr/local/share/libtool15/libltdl
01:25.08 Twingy AC_CHECK_LIB(ltdl,lt_dlopen,,\
01:25.15 Twingy hrmm
01:25.18 brlcad <PROTECTED>
01:25.48 brlcad oh, what video device is that capturing?
01:26.18 brlcad er, what capture device did you get?
01:26.52 Twingy bktr0
01:27.04 Twingy Failed to get a SDP description from URL "rtsp://192.168.1.1:8554/live": cannot handle DESCRIBE response: RTSP/1.0 415 Unsupported Media Type
01:27.10 Twingy I don't think the stream has a name
01:29.49 Twingy hrm, file...
01:32.18 brlcad looks interesting http://freebsd.ricin.com/kbtv/
01:32.30 brlcad has a channel changer
01:32.44 Twingy fxtv does as well
01:32.57 Twingy plus capture stuff
01:34.56 Twingy ah
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01:41.10 ``Erik http://qdb.us/56099
01:41.14 Twingy the mill arrived mike
01:41.16 ``Erik http://qdb.us/56011
01:41.21 tegtmeye sweet!
01:41.27 tegtmeye and???
01:41.47 Twingy it's very mill'ish
01:41.52 ``Erik http://qdb.us/56019
01:41.52 tegtmeye lol
01:42.04 Twingy mplayer is borked
01:42.05 tegtmeye all that youhoped for?
01:42.15 Twingy I'm working on rtsp stuff
01:42.23 tegtmeye ah
01:42.50 tegtmeye I expected you to mill up a soda can out of recycled soda cans by now
01:43.31 Twingy hrm, libltdl is sitting in /usr/local/lib
01:45.19 Twingy ah
01:45.23 Twingy fixed their configure script
01:46.17 Twingy I might build the mill later tonight or tomorrow
01:47.06 tegtmeye how much "some assembly necessary"?
01:47.19 Twingy like 4 parts
01:47.29 Twingy and then cnc portion
01:47.35 Twingy another 4 parts
01:48.07 tegtmeye gcc 4.1 released today...
01:48.15 tegtmeye if anyone cares
01:48.34 ``Erik does it still have the fuckups of the beta? o.O
01:49.30 tegtmeye not sure, testing now...
02:33.20 Twingy urf, so much breakage
02:33.49 pra5ad_ does mplayer work at all w/ nvidia drivers?
02:33.55 Twingy yea
02:34.08 pra5ad_ special compile flags?
02:34.11 pra5ad_ er conf
02:34.14 Twingy newp
02:34.17 pra5ad_ wtf
02:34.19 pra5ad_ =(
02:34.33 Twingy never had a problem on loonix or freebsd
02:34.43 pra5ad_ from src?
02:34.45 pra5ad_ or binary
02:34.53 Twingy I compile out of ports
02:34.59 pra5ad_ oh
02:35.14 pra5ad_ ubuntu has no mplayer package
03:59.05 pra5ad_ woot mplayer is working
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14:34.41 cobbaut hi, i see on sf.net that 7.6.8 is released, but i don't see it with the downloads...
15:05.14 brlcad cobbaut: yeah, jumped the gun by a few hours on the posting.. trouble uploading the tarball
15:05.32 brlcad it'll be up in a few hours
15:52.13 ``Erik heh
16:05.08 Maloeran You may as well grab the cvs I suppose
16:05.22 ``Erik heh, is cvs unbroken now? :D
16:06.11 Maloeran Sourceforge sure seems to have recurrent problems with cvs
16:06.47 ``Erik I meant the code in it, supposedly there were some fresh bugs in librt or something :)
16:07.02 Maloeran Ah :)
16:49.41 brlcad cvs head isn't reliable at the moment, rel-7-6-branch if you want reliable
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20:06.23 IngMan Hi Brlcad
20:09.40 IngMan For day I have been having the same doubt: How make gears
20:18.02 IngMan How make gears
20:40.30 IngMan Hi
20:47.46 IngMan exit
21:06.24 Maloeran That was... coherent
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23:12.56 ``Erik spam spam spam and egg salad.
23:18.41 archivist I saw that first time around (shows my age)
23:24.01 ``Erik was that '76 or '77?
23:24.11 ``Erik :)
23:24.21 brlcad mm.. sounds yummy
23:25.00 ``Erik (well, my parents carried me there ;)
23:25.55 archivist maybe earlier than 76 cant remember
23:26.45 ``Erik opengl.org pisses me off by not posting more pics by the stories... I use the pictures to see if new shit is listed :(
23:28.29 archivist 1969-1974
23:29.10 ``Erik ah, heh, my bad
23:29.14 archivist so i was 17 when it started
23:29.18 ``Erik 76-77 must've been in the movie phase
23:29.56 ``Erik <-- needs to buy the dvd's of the flying circuis and 4 movies... has the latest 'compilation' dvd's
23:33.42 ``Erik heh, he has to wire in the cnc motors, then write control software
23:34.36 ``Erik mebbe tomorrow afternoon, he'll have a psuedorocket
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060304

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060304

00:10.54 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:10.55 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
00:17.26 brlcad for when ingman returns, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/gear/
00:19.15 archivist ok there was someone else as well
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04:42.09 Twingy I need more endmills
05:13.02 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
05:13.02 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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07:27.04 birdmun Twingy busy?
07:33.04 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
07:33.04 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
07:33.32 birdmun I will take the lack of response as a yes
08:41.44 clock_ Is US implementing a second Soviet Union? http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/AdoptedText/TA05/ERES1433.htm
08:45.19 clock_ "United States Government has betrayed its own highest principles", "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment occurring as a direct result of official policy, authorised at the very highest levels of government", "ill-treatment amounting to torture which has occurred systematically and with the knowledge and complicity of the United States Government", "the United States has engaged in the unlawful practice of secret detention"
08:45.29 clock_ And that's an official resolution of the European Perliament!
09:25.54 birdmun i didnt vote for the guy runnin this place
09:35.39 clock_ After this I am seriously considering boycotting US products
09:35.52 clock_ I will maybe buy Swiss Nidecker snowboard instead of a Burton.
09:45.11 birdmun i will hold no ill will toward you
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15:28.11 Maloeran The Soviet Union was trying to free humanity of religions, though I wouldn't agree on the methods. The theocracy aspect scares me much more...
15:29.04 ``Erik heh
15:29.09 ``Erik indeed
15:29.37 ``Erik bushism is closer to medeival fuedalism than communism or marxism (or stalinism, or maoism)
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16:21.11 *** join/#brlcad whitehawk (n=falcone@catv-50630d7b.catv.broadband.hu)
16:21.12 whitehawk hi
16:21.21 brlcad howdy
16:21.34 whitehawk where is 7.6.8?
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16:21.40 whitehawk I don't seem to find it
16:21.47 whitehawk only the release info
16:21.55 brlcad issue with the upload, should be up soon
16:24.14 brlcad mostly minor updates since 7.6.6
16:25.23 whitehawk As I remember I couldn't compile 7.6.6 for my amd64
16:37.37 brlcad whitehawk: what is/was the error? shouldn't be hard to get it compiling
16:47.03 whitehawk don't remember
16:47.13 whitehawk I was told it is already fixed in cvs..
16:47.44 whitehawk I think some header file
16:53.50 whitehawk tcl tk is a must?
17:02.36 brlcad is a must, although brl-cad provides it for you
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18:49.15 pra5ad quarter century
18:54.17 archivist is that all
18:55.36 pra5ad u old fogie =)
18:56.26 archivist more that 1/2 century
18:56.32 archivist than
19:04.03 whitehawk someone has a sci gentoo overlay
19:04.11 whitehawk there I found a brlcad ebuild
19:04.36 whitehawk but that is a crap.. damn I hope I can get the ebuild work
19:06.49 brlcad that would be cool
19:06.58 brlcad i'd do it myself if I still had my gentoo system up
19:11.00 pra5ad hmph brlcad isnt in any of the ubuntu repos
19:11.07 pra5ad someone should make a package
19:14.43 whitehawk --enable-regexp-build=no' '--enable-png-build=no' '--enable-zlib-build=no' '--enable-urt-build=no'
19:15.15 whitehawk these conf options mean support for these stuff or just that bundled will be built?
19:21.37 *** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=c847284d@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:22.00 IngMan Hi, People
19:25.27 archivist Ingman see http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/gear/ something brlcad put up for you
19:28.25 IngMan exelent
19:31.33 IngMan i need make a "gear box", when it finishes it I show them
19:39.47 IngMan another question: that it programs is good of finite elements
19:41.12 ``Erik huh?
19:41.53 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-92-19.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:44.25 IngMan ???
19:47.24 brlcad too many uses of "it", don't know what you're talking about
19:50.09 IngMan programs of FEA
19:50.39 IngMan Eso de no hablar bien ingles es un problema serio No ??? ;-)
19:50.49 brlcad a veces :)
19:51.09 brlcad no entiendo la pregunta
19:51.30 IngMan que programa de elementos finitos es buneo
19:51.32 IngMan bueno
19:52.18 brlcad depende en que te importa
19:52.19 IngMan calculix, impact
19:52.20 brlcad gratis?
19:52.31 IngMan libre, es mejor
19:53.43 brlcad hay various..
19:53.48 brlcad hmm
19:53.52 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_element_analysis
19:54.28 brlcad ansys y nastran son bien popular pero no gratis
19:54.38 IngMan exacto
19:54.44 IngMan yo manejo ansys
19:54.52 IngMan pero quiero algo GPL
19:55.11 brlcad hubo una lista en wikipedia
19:55.26 brlcad not too familiar with the free ones
19:56.22 IngMan yo conosco varios, libre pero queria saber su opinio para ver cual era el mejor
19:57.53 brlcad aja, bueno.. como dije, no conosco los que son gratis muy bien.. :/
19:58.20 IngMan y cual "no gratis" te parece mejor
20:00.57 brlcad probablemente ansys
20:01.48 IngMan gracias
20:01.55 IngMan por las imagenes
20:02.24 IngMan cuado acabe la caja de engranes que estoy haciendo te la mostrare
20:02.32 brlcad de nada, solo tomo unos minutos
20:02.42 brlcad ta bien
20:04.20 IngMan yo tengo que hacer eso muchas horas
20:06.18 IngMan Ahh, lo del manual en español,
20:06.28 IngMan spanish
20:07.00 IngMan ya casi lo tengo, pero es que ultimamente ando un poco ocupado
20:07.32 brlcad no problemo
20:07.38 IngMan chao
20:24.51 brlcad heh
20:25.15 ``Erik I'm pretty sure the only two people there older than me were buying something for a kid or grandkid, heh
20:25.37 brlcad down in the marsh?
20:25.54 ``Erik no, bel air, the 'harford mall' has one
20:26.23 ``Erik been in the one at whitemarsh mall, tho...
20:26.36 ``Erik plus the hollister, american eagle, etc, down there... xgf made me
20:26.37 ``Erik heh
20:33.21 clock_ brlcad: Imagine that I have a box full of regular tetrahedra
20:33.50 clock_ and I am gluing them together, always fitting two faces together so they become identical
20:33.58 clock_ brlcad: how can I simulate this in brlcad?
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21:04.53 learner clock_: are they randomly placed, or isotropic?
21:10.32 clock_ learner: they are manually placed
21:10.44 learner but i mean are they adjacent to each other?
21:10.46 clock_ I would like to make a lattice truss from regular tetrahedra
21:10.51 clock_ yes
21:10.55 clock_ they always share a face
21:10.56 learner a tetrahedral mesh basically
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22:17.22 whitehawk what is jove?
22:18.03 pra5ad arcane editor
22:18.07 pra5ad *text
22:19.34 learner "jonathan's own version of emacs"
22:19.58 learner a streamlined emacs from a time that emacs took a long time to load on old slow systems
22:20.10 whitehawk can it be disabled?
22:20.15 learner yep
22:20.16 whitehawk it has a problem in jove.h
22:20.20 learner --disable-jove
22:20.22 whitehawk with malloc
22:20.27 learner yeah
22:20.42 learner that has been fixed, and it's a one-line edit, but you really don't need jove
22:21.03 learner it just auto-enables by default if it detects that you don't have it installed
22:23.37 whitehawk is jove needed in any way by brlcad?
22:26.23 learner nope
22:26.48 learner it's one of many convenience tools provided, that's one of the oldest -- there are users that request it remain
22:27.11 whitehawk oh..
22:27.19 whitehawk and those zlib, png etc?
22:27.38 learner those are used by various tools
22:40.32 pra5ad ibot, time
22:40.37 ibot 2006.03.04 22:40:37 GMT
22:51.46 whitehawk somehow disable-jove did not work..
22:51.59 whitehawk might be in the ebuild automatization..
22:54.06 learner bye bye zelazny
22:54.08 learner whitehawk, edit src/other/jove.h and remove the malloc line
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22:56.05 *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@69.90.211.97)
23:01.08 *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:01.08 *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
23:20.47 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:20.47 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060305

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060305

00:08.06 whitehawk brlcad finite element analysis
00:08.14 whitehawk there's a prog for it
00:08.18 whitehawk called solome
00:08.22 whitehawk or what
00:09.30 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@202-160.240.81.adsl.skynet.be)
00:16.08 brlcad salome, from the open cascade folks
00:17.00 brlcad from what I understand, they don't actually do the FEA
00:17.24 brlcad they do the conversion from cad formats to various FEM
00:17.54 brlcad for this, we're working with Cubit from Sandia
00:17.56 brlcad http://cubit.sandia.gov/
00:18.00 brlcad much better package
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00:21.03 brlcad howdy
00:21.34 brlcad whitehawk: in particular, we're hooking into cgm, testing out the connectivity and representations
00:21.37 brlcad looking pretty seamless
00:22.28 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
00:22.28 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
00:22.28 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
00:22.28 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
00:22.28 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
00:22.29 whitehawk <PROTECTED>
00:24.08 brlcad yep
00:24.13 brlcad external solvers being the key
00:24.16 whitehawk cubit is not free
00:25.33 brlcad for most everyone we've dealt with that need to do an FEA, cost is rarely the problem -- but that is a concern
00:25.51 brlcad open cascade doesn't help us a whole lot in that regard, they are free as in beer but not speech
00:27.02 brlcad from the few that have played with it, also, none have liked much about open cascade -- it's complex and poorly structured in places
00:27.14 brlcad this part might be better, of coruse
00:27.35 brlcad let's just say, patches to cinteract with them would be well received
00:27.42 brlcad we can already export iges for them
00:35.24 whitehawk i got errors from librt or tr...
00:35.37 whitehawk i might be missing something for compilation
00:35.51 brlcad tr?
00:36.03 brlcad ah, librt.
00:36.07 brlcad raytrace library
00:36.19 brlcad what error?
00:37.12 whitehawk something about tcltk
00:37.20 whitehawk undefined bla bla..
00:39.03 whitehawk ./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `Tcl_FirstHashEntry'
00:39.06 whitehawk like this
00:40.20 brlcad hmmm.. sounds like an ebuildism for finding/building Tcl
00:40.34 brlcad did you noticed whether Tcl was configured on or off?
00:40.46 whitehawk off
00:41.11 brlcad ah, that's likely why
00:41.32 whitehawk you mean --enable-tcl-build?
00:41.33 brlcad different versions of Tcl getting linked, missing a symbol
00:42.01 brlcad you should probably --enable-everything --disable-jove
00:42.08 brlcad yeah, that should be on
00:42.11 brlcad not off
00:49.09 whitehawk well
00:49.40 whitehawk it would be better to use stuff from the repo than the bundled with brlcad
00:49.44 whitehawk but nevermind
00:49.53 whitehawk night
00:53.17 brlcad i agree, that's where more work needs to go into the ebuild
00:53.33 brlcad so that it specifies the external deps better
00:53.46 brlcad right versions, adds the right build options, etc
01:01.20 learner is it all squished?
01:01.29 learner ~ww
01:01.30 ibot Wrong window pansie
01:47.39 Twingy cnc machine works great, I need to pick up some more collets and end mills though
01:47.57 Twingy and get crackin' on my cnc software
01:47.58 birdmun lol ... so it is a more manufactured machine?
01:48.05 Twingy hrm?
01:48.13 birdmun collets
01:48.38 birdmun i was just wondering what machine you were using ... homebuilt or purchased
01:48.58 Twingy taig 20ER-CR
01:49.43 Twingy after the rotary table it'll ring at about $2100
01:50.15 Twingy which is ridiculously cheap for a cnc machine
01:50.34 birdmun I have parts sitting right next to me to build a homebuilt machine minus the stepper controller
01:51.08 Twingy in the future if I require a larger cnc machine I will probably build my own
01:51.31 Twingy for now I just don't have the time to build one, I'm getting too far behind on my rocketry progress
01:51.59 birdmun lol
01:52.06 Twingy I will be dissapointed if I don't have my next rocet motor working by the end of the year
01:52.20 Twingy *rocket
01:52.27 birdmun amateur rocketry then?
01:52.31 Twingy of course
01:52.37 learner i will be disappointed if you don't win the ansari launch :)
01:52.39 Twingy if work were funding this I'd have much better tools
01:52.59 Twingy no way I can win that, don't have the budget or time alotment
01:53.23 birdmun pop sci or pop mech did a story on a competition in NM or somewhere similar
01:54.49 birdmun at least you work somewhere that is relevant to your hobbies
01:55.02 Twingy yes
01:55.57 birdmun i help manufacture dog biscuits
01:56.10 birdmun not a whole lotta call for cnc work there :)
01:56.26 Twingy heh
01:56.47 birdmun did you ever consider EMC to run your mill?
01:56.48 Twingy I need to get my salary up higher so I can tool up better
01:57.26 Twingy that'd require running linux
01:57.38 Twingy I'd rather just stick to a proven app like turbocnc in dos
01:57.52 Twingy linux without a heavy set of mods is a far cry from realtime
01:58.03 Twingy is just wasn't architectured with real-time in mind
01:58.47 birdmun i know little about both and as i have as yet to get a machine to work with i will know little about either
01:59.09 Twingy I will probably order my mig welder next
01:59.21 Twingy presumably sometime next month
02:00.40 Twingy I've actually been thinking more and more about aluminum rocket nozzles for this next motor, previously I completely ruled them out, but if designed correctly I think they run with a near room-temperature internal temp
02:00.52 birdmun what do you use for fuel in your rocket engines?
02:01.17 Twingy the last series were based on richard nakka's potassium nitrate dextrose solid motor design
02:01.41 Twingy this series is alot more experimental due to the lack of data in the amateur realm... propane and nitrous
02:03.22 Twingy it's got potential to become a really popular type due to just about every aspect of the motor and propellant being simple and cost effective
02:03.33 birdmun crazy to think people can buy this stuff off the shelf
02:03.44 ``Erik heh
02:03.52 ``Erik don't tell the gubmint
02:03.58 birdmun dont worry
02:04.13 birdmun as you saw earlier im no more fond of it than you are
02:04.26 birdmun at least the current leader
02:05.00 Twingy I probably won't have to interface with any sort of government regs for atleast 18 - 24 months due to the time frame I'm working on and the scale of the motor
02:05.14 birdmun kewl
02:05.55 birdmun so it just boils down to a power to weight ratio then
02:05.58 ``Erik it'd be interesting to use gasoline and something like a kitchen or bathroom cleaning agent to build a high output rocket engine
02:06.16 ``Erik lets see them outlaw gas and 'scrubbing bubbles' o.O
02:06.23 birdmun lol
02:06.27 Twingy I'm going to build a small 40-50lb thrust motor for my initial design, after that I will scale it up to 150-200lb or thereabouts
02:06.35 birdmun wow
02:07.07 ``Erik a longer burn time than the ~10s your current generation motors output?
02:07.13 Twingy I want appropximately 10:1 weight to thrust ratio
02:07.22 Twingy thrust to weight even
02:07.38 Twingy 10s? where where you the day of testing?
02:07.43 ``Erik 10g acceleration?
02:07.46 ``Erik which day of testing?
02:07.51 ``Erik heh
02:07.52 Twingy you said 10s
02:08.02 ``Erik I was there for a few...
02:08.03 ``Erik mebbe 2s
02:08.10 ``Erik heh
02:08.25 Twingy all the burns were well under 2s
02:08.33 ``Erik I remember explosions and pieces of the steel motor body detaching
02:08.44 ``Erik yeah, that's right...
02:08.55 ``Erik under 2s? I though tthe 'full burn' was pretty close to 2s
02:09.17 Twingy depends on the configuration
02:09.18 ``Erik you did some thrust graphs, right?
02:09.28 Twingy the 300lb thrust test was 0.9 seconds
02:09.30 ``Erik "bottom up"
02:09.34 birdmun http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml ever see this
02:10.02 ``Erik the 300lb was 'top down'? blowing combusted gas over the fuel core?
02:11.43 Twingy yep
02:12.11 ``Erik think if we told mt that we didn't think a decently performing fem program could do nozzle analysis, he'd whip one up for us? :D *duck*
02:12.24 ``Erik erm, rather, that such a program could be done in c++
02:12.25 ``Erik heh
02:12.58 Twingy alright, time for me to get organized here, back in a couple hours
02:13.06 birdmun hasta
02:13.07 ``Erik when you're done, clean my den.
02:13.07 ``Erik :D
02:17.59 ``Erik have you seen the pulse jet powered go-kart out of nz?
02:18.09 birdmun thats where that vid came from
02:18.13 birdmun prolly same guy
02:18.40 ``Erik ah, I was reading about pulse jets a few years ago, dude in nz did a gokart, a beer cooler, etc
02:18.49 birdmun he was working on an cheap knock off of a cruise missle
02:19.01 birdmun it has since strangely gone missing from his site
02:20.03 ``Erik huh, I think that is the same dude
02:20.10 ``Erik but when I looked, the jet was mounted low on the body
02:20.43 ``Erik http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/images/jk11.jpg there it is, heh
02:20.49 birdmun http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/gokart.htm
02:21.42 ``Erik chup
02:22.10 ``Erik hah, you're the dude from joplin?
02:22.47 birdmun aye
02:23.33 ``Erik man, why didn't I find anyone really interested in shit lik ethat when I was out there? :D
02:24.16 ``Erik http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/pjafterburner.shtml
02:24.17 ``Erik o.O
02:25.43 birdmun you were here 10 yrs ago?
02:25.54 ``Erik '96-'03
02:25.57 ``Erik erm
02:26.02 ``Erik yeah, heh
02:26.07 birdmun http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
02:26.21 birdmun because in that time frame i was still in indiana
02:26.23 ``Erik <-- did smsu '97-01
02:26.58 birdmun born and raised in indiana
02:27.01 ``Erik that made like /. or something when the supposed 'leaning' was taking place
02:27.14 birdmun moved here in 03
02:27.21 birdmun i wouldnt be surprised
02:28.07 birdmun well im up to lesson 4 in Vol II Intro to mged
02:28.16 learner heh
02:28.33 learner fun fun
02:28.37 birdmun printed the whole thing out took a bit ... 2 pages per page tho ... had a couple jams too
02:29.24 ``Erik sean, I want to learn how to make models in brlcad, come show me by modelling my house :D
02:29.26 ``Erik *duck*
02:29.35 birdmun lol
02:29.55 learner easy, "make box arb8"
02:29.57 ``Erik don't make me outpress you o.O
02:30.05 learner all done
02:30.29 ``Erik does that do the moulding on the window sills and door jams, too?
02:30.30 ``Erik heh
02:30.39 birdmun pick pick pick
02:31.07 ``Erik :D
02:32.21 ``Erik ('sok, my competition lift is the 12oz curl)
02:32.23 learner hehe
02:32.31 learner mm.. speaking of such
02:33.30 birdmun wow ... i have a green rounded off nub in my graphical window
02:33.39 ``Erik I hit the local shop last night, the bottom shelf of my fridge is completely full of microbrew bottles
02:33.39 birdmun sarcasm :P
02:33.59 birdmun local shops are good
02:34.08 birdmun esp when they know you
02:34.12 ``Erik indeed
02:34.25 ``Erik I've talked shop with one of the brewers at springfield brewery
02:34.34 birdmun back home there was a store i could occassionally get discounts
02:34.55 ``Erik heh, I've also talked shop with the brewer at a local one, 'duclaws' (a bit big to bea micro anymore, guess they're a regional?)
02:35.12 birdmun he
02:35.14 birdmun h
02:35.26 ``Erik the dude here, he's not the brewmaster, but he does most of the work... he quit his job as a lawyer to brew, really cool guy
02:35.58 ``Erik man, open tab of a beer they call "venom"... I so should NOT have drove home that night, hehehe
02:36.13 ``Erik tap
02:37.04 birdmun stout
02:37.09 ``Erik ?
02:37.13 birdmun beer
02:37.18 birdmun stout/strong
02:37.19 ``Erik ja?
02:38.01 ``Erik what was the coffee&chocolate stout meuller had, um, 'mudhouse stout'?
02:38.18 birdmun no idea
02:38.24 birdmun not a beer drinker
02:38.55 birdmun southern comfort and mt dew
02:39.27 birdmun maybe i should say ... my stomach doesnt tend to like beer
02:39.39 ``Erik yet it can take diluded whiskey
02:40.36 birdmun who am i to complain :)
02:46.58 Twingy ug, so much work left
02:47.42 birdmun I have a fair amount to do myself but I cant complain ... all fairly easy stuff
02:48.17 ``Erik :D
02:48.20 Twingy I think I'm going to do a little more work on my cnc software tonight
02:49.11 ``Erik just the cut csg type thing, not, say, a driver?
02:49.12 ``Erik :D
02:49.21 ``Erik <-- thinks a fbsd driver for that thingy would be gnarly
02:49.45 birdmun debian is unacceptable?
02:50.07 Twingy turbocnc works just fine
02:50.16 ``Erik meh, when I have to use linux and I get the choice of which, I tend to go with debian 'testing'
02:50.44 birdmun i dont know enough to even get myself in trouble
02:50.52 birdmun well maybe
02:51.04 ``Erik yeah, but you have to boot dos to use it, twingy... unless you can get it chugging under dosemu without any hiccups
02:51.04 birdmun my current linux partition is unaccessable
02:51.45 birdmun unaccessible(?)
02:51.51 ``Erik funny, I have a machine with a dual boot config, fbsd and w2k... windows won't boot, the windows cd says the fs is damaged beyond usability, yet fbsd mounts and uses it just fine o.O
02:52.03 birdmun lol
02:52.25 birdmun been so long since i crashed it i dont recall what i killed
02:52.47 ``Erik I think I did in my windows in october or november
02:52.55 ``Erik :)
02:53.13 birdmun lol
02:53.30 birdmun i have a 100g drive w/ 60 partitioned for linux
02:53.48 birdmun i keep having to delete and save in my 40g windows partition
02:54.11 ``Erik <-- bought into the fileserver mentality many yrs ago... most boxes have just 'nuff hdd to hold the OS
02:54.50 Twingy 2 logitech mice and a 256MB stick for good measure
02:54.57 birdmun lol
02:55.03 birdmun only 256?
02:55.08 ``Erik http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c383/reminesmeto/George_W__Bush_gj_r_177820a.jpg :o
02:55.25 Twingy all the stuff I do at home only requires ~256
02:55.27 ``Erik heh, and the machine will recognize 64m of it? :D
02:55.38 Twingy it's my little 3ghz p4 shoebox
02:55.50 birdmun ic
02:55.57 Twingy that's collecting dust for the last 5 months
02:56.07 birdmun i have a system like that
02:56.16 ``Erik 3ghz? damn, heh
02:56.25 birdmun via 1gig w/ 512mb and a 300g hdd
02:56.32 Twingy I've got a 1.3ghz celeron in the garage for the cnc machine, 4GB win98, 16GB fbsd6
02:56.43 Twingy with a 15" lcd
02:56.47 birdmun kewl
02:56.56 Twingy the other 15" lcd is upstairs at top of stairs
02:57.05 Twingy that's where the 3ghz box will go
02:57.13 Twingy 384MB for web/email
02:57.26 birdmun im considering a lcd for the via system
02:57.39 Twingy I absolutely love the 15" lcd's they are so practical
02:58.02 birdmun system will be used by gf's daughter
02:58.08 Twingy they're light, cheap, and can play HD video
02:58.23 birdmun dont know if 15 will really compare .. gf has 17crt and i have 19
02:58.25 Twingy my bran new 15" dell lcd was $100
02:58.32 birdmun nice
02:58.57 Twingy you just can't beat that
02:59.18 Twingy the workstation I'm on now is a pair of 19" lcd's
02:59.23 Twingy I've had this setup for 2 years
03:00.03 Twingy when I upgrade next year I will probably consolidate to one LCD since they are going way down in price
03:00.15 birdmun nice
03:00.29 Twingy the 24" ones
03:00.35 birdmun dell 20" for 459
03:00.46 Twingy these were $485 a piece in '04
03:01.51 birdmun im sure
03:02.25 Twingy once I get the 4x8 trailer together I should be ready to pick up the grizzly lathe
03:02.26 birdmun viewsonic 19" 4ms 344
03:02.35 birdmun kewl
03:02.53 Twingy they've got a cheap $2300 belt lathe I got my eye on
03:03.04 birdmun 800 dell 24 lcd
03:03.09 birdmun cheap?
03:03.16 Twingy relatively speaking
03:03.24 Twingy for a lathe that's cheap
03:03.39 birdmun i guess 2300 and cheap rarely coincided for me
03:03.39 Twingy amusing thing is it will be as much as my cnc mill
03:03.47 Twingy except lathe is 1200lbs and mill is ~100lbs
03:04.53 birdmun lathe could prolly eat the mill for breakfast
03:05.07 ``Erik heh
03:06.39 Twingy more than likely I will put down hardwood in the living room before purchasing the lathe
03:06.54 Twingy that is something I'm itching to get done
03:07.03 birdmun understandable
03:07.36 Twingy I'm thinking about picking it up sometime this month
03:08.02 Twingy the weather is a little more forgiving now that spring is near
03:08.27 Twingy no scheme, just be smart and motivated
03:08.38 birdmun i dont doubt that
03:08.55 birdmun and a much better paying job than i have
03:09.08 birdmun more motivation than anything tho
03:09.44 Twingy obviously you're content with it "enough" otherwise you would have found something else
03:10.31 birdmun actually still going to school
03:10.37 birdmun dont need to shake things up
03:11.11 birdmun and my pay is decent compared to most jobs i have had down here
03:11.20 birdmun actually all other jobs i have had down here
03:11.35 birdmun just bought a house
03:12.11 Twingy good investment
03:12.13 birdmun if i seem to be knocking you and your motivation i am sorry
03:12.25 birdmun i know im a sloth
03:12.29 Twingy heh
03:12.55 Twingy you'd be surprised how motivated and productive you can become without a girl friend :)
03:13.21 Twingy I'm just taking advantage of the situation while I've not attached
03:13.33 Twingy s/I've/I'm
03:14.36 birdmun mine is sleeping on the futon currently
03:14.55 birdmun and i am amazingly undermotivated often
03:15.09 birdmun i work hard to do what i want and then lounge
03:16.22 birdmun i have known ppl that say they cant be out of work for long ... me .. i could find many things to occupy(?) my time if i werent working
04:11.27 Twingy nothing says fun like a diamond monkey: http://www.js.cx/~justin/cornelius_diamond.png
04:11.46 Twingy http://www.js.cx/~justin/images/cornelius_diamond.png
04:13.49 learner :)
04:15.20 learner my what a mighty bulge he's got going there
04:17.00 Twingy hahaha
04:17.10 Twingy I just found a video of my room-mate firing up the old sun 3/60 we found
04:17.18 Twingy and it checking all 8MB of ram
04:18.09 Twingy excuse me a sun 3/200
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10:46.00 whitehawk compilation died fith -fPIC should be set..
11:18.15 clock_ if I have 2 cubes in brlcad is it possible to say that one cube should be aligned to just touch the other one?
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12:36.19 whitehawk igf brlcad makes its own tcl tk etc it wqont overwritesystem tcl tk?!
12:43.01 whitehawk falcone@nido ~/brlcad-7.6.6 $ mged
12:43.02 whitehawk Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
12:43.02 whitehawk falcone@nido ~/brlcad-7.6.6 $ this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black"
12:43.02 whitehawk MGED Aborted.
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23:31.56 tegtmeye brlcad, you around?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060306

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060306

01:23.27 brlcad tegtmeye: occasionally
01:36.46 pra5ad lies
01:42.39 brlcad damn lies
01:43.34 Twingy this trailer has like a hundred parts
01:45.11 ``Erik O.o
01:46.25 Twingy atlest the axle is all bolted and greased
01:49.07 tegtmeye brlcad- how do I evaluate a variable in autoconf in this instance...
01:49.23 tegtmeye AC_HELP_STRING([--with-stack-size],
01:49.25 tegtmeye <PROTECTED>
01:49.43 tegtmeye I want the configure --help to look like...
01:49.59 Twingy mike, you got any collet sets laying around?
01:50.00 tegtmeye set default thread stack byte size [default=###]
01:50.08 tegtmeye no
01:50.13 tegtmeye sorry, why?
01:50.20 Twingy I need some more collets and endmills
01:50.31 tegtmeye `more' ???
01:50.33 Twingy gonna resume work on my cnc software this week
01:50.39 Twingy I only picked up a handful
01:50.47 Twingy I want the whole fricken mcmaster catalogue
01:50.48 tegtmeye and what happened to them?
01:50.53 tegtmeye lol
01:50.57 Twingy nothing happened, I want more damnit
01:51.41 tegtmeye how much did you pay for them?
01:51.47 Twingy damn I'm out of shape, I ran 2 miles and was out of breath, so sad :(
01:52.02 Twingy I bought 5 1/16" endmills for like $20?
01:52.27 tegtmeye HSS?
01:52.30 Twingy I wanna get some 1 / 32 too and 3/32
01:52.34 Twingy I believe so
01:52.39 tegtmeye sounds right
01:52.41 brlcad tegtmeye: heh
01:52.47 Twingy I ordered them like 3 months ago
01:53.01 Twingy around the time I ordered the cnc portion
01:53.26 brlcad you can't directly with AC_HELP_STRING
01:53.33 tegtmeye brlcad - I tried every combination of extra [[]]'s and "'s I could think of...
01:53.34 brlcad you have to wrap it in a macro
01:53.41 brlcad so that it's m4 evaluated
01:54.02 tegtmeye eg?
01:54.23 brlcad brl-cad does this, take a look at the BC_ARG_ENABLE macro
01:54.39 brlcad m4 dir
01:54.44 brlcad args.m4 iirc
01:55.27 tegtmeye autoconf talks about the AC_DEFUN macro...
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02:03.48 tegtmeye brlcad-I'm seeing its use but not the definition...
02:04.29 brlcad 20:54 <@brlcad> m4 dir
02:04.30 brlcad 20:54 <@brlcad> args.m4 iirc
02:05.29 tegtmeye ah...
02:07.25 pra5ad go on
02:08.12 Twingy pizzas, hot pockets, and soda
02:08.30 pra5ad excellent
02:08.30 Twingy late night coding snacks
02:08.51 Twingy pizzas $2, hot pockets $1, sodas 25 cents
02:09.40 Twingy I think I have like 16 pizzas and 12 hot pockets
02:10.13 Twingy I pretty much wiped food lion out
02:10.38 Twingy can't remember the last time I speant over $100 on groceries
02:12.03 tegtmeye <- giving up
02:12.51 Twingy HARMONIC OSCILLATIONS#@!
02:12.53 tegtmeye as long as I can wear fuzzy slippers
02:13.15 tegtmeye your playing a harmonica???
02:13.27 Twingy yea, I milled one out of silly putty
02:13.32 tegtmeye s/your/you're
02:15.45 Twingy and best supporting actress goes to Rachel Weisz
02:17.11 Twingy oof, looking forward to monday, what an exhausting weekend
03:49.55 brlcad Twingy: http://www.makezine.com/blog/street_legal_vw_powered_3.jpg
03:52.46 brlcad that site is right up your alley
03:59.00 ``Erik that the one orielly was involve din?
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06:25.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: gpgpu for enhanced performance boolweave sorting
06:29.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libfb + font rendering (perhaps through libbn's plot interface) for a posix terminal.
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06:34.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support to the raytracers for multiple image file formats, recognizing an option and/or the file suffix of the -o filename.
07:58.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: cheat sheet of common mged commands, keybindings, gui elements and scripting facilities
07:59.56 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: cheat sheet of useful BRL-CAD command-line tools grouped categorically
08:03.26 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: might as well call them by the more tame name of reference sheets
08:11.41 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: short intro documentation for command line tools including a separate one for mged. generally want a document less than 20 pages but encompassing.
08:22.36 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: restore functionality to tests and benchmark
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14:50.51 mados hallo
14:51.56 mados wich is the package for windows plattform
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16:24.06 ``Erik O.o
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18:54.04 tegtmeye er...
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19:00.19 brlcad exactly
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060307

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060307

00:36.15 ``Erik http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/pics3/segaviz2.jpg
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03:04.41 Twingy hrm, trailer is wired up now
03:22.13 pra5ad mmm X3 trailer
03:38.40 Twingy I really need to build a linear actuator add-on for this trailer for rocket launching
03:39.10 Twingy simple hinge and pneumatic actuator setup that bolts on
03:39.33 brlcad gonna pimp your ride?
03:39.34 Twingy with 1/4" steel plate to prevent rocket exhaust from damaging trailer
03:39.43 Twingy pimp my trailer y0
03:39.50 Twingy put spinners on it
03:39.53 Twingy and neon lights
03:39.59 Twingy with 3 spoilers
03:40.01 brlcad rockets on the spinners
03:40.11 Twingy like a mexican parade
03:40.25 Twingy or fiesta
03:40.27 brlcad as your pull up to the gate
03:40.37 Twingy *WHISTLE* *WHIRL WHIRL WHIRL*
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04:54.25 pra5ad ruh roh
04:54.35 pra5ad roosevelt is angry that i adopted islam
04:54.45 pra5ad here comes the preemptive war
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17:01.31 tegtmeye sean, you around?
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20:05.24 brlcad tegtmeye: nope
20:07.16 ``Erik http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/curves.jpg
20:09.16 brlcad hehe, yeah, saw that
21:39.15 ``Erik vim is my favored flavor
21:52.19 docelic sure
21:53.21 docelic http://www.alf.com/
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23:27.05 learner1 /nick learner
23:27.14 brlcad hmm, that didn't work as planned
23:52.24 Twingy heh
23:52.31 Twingy still watching?
23:52.38 brlcad mebbe... :)
23:54.58 Twingy 0x2B | !0x2B that is the question
23:55.43 Twingy who would have thought a logic analyzer could answer one of shakespears most famous questions
23:55.46 archivist hehe an HP1631D
23:56.28 archivist do we need to send a collection plate around for end mills
23:56.47 Twingy yes
23:56.54 Twingy just ordered more parts yesterday
23:57.04 Twingy planning to spend most of tonight working on opengl stuff
23:57.30 ``Erik heh
23:57.42 archivist opengl--->broken end mill
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060308

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060308

00:24.23 pra5ad haha HP1631D
00:24.49 pra5ad i used one of those
00:24.53 pra5ad back in undergrad
00:26.09 archivist I like old HP, especially when free
00:26.43 pra5ad and by back, i meant 2 yrs ago
00:27.06 archivist heh thes are circe mid 80's
00:27.36 pra5ad top 20 college program and cant buy up to date equipment
00:27.48 archivist time to drill the fuse link to effect a repair
00:30.30 pra5ad hmm for $200 we made a dla w/ 2mb ram
00:31.09 pra5ad driven by a 24mhz crystal
00:31.15 pra5ad or was it 40..
00:33.28 Twingy my logic analyzer consists of a hammer, broom, and dust pan
00:33.59 brlcad s/shove guys/shove guts/
00:34.04 Twingy yum
00:35.45 archivist ooo fixed fuse and got a worker
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02:31.36 Twingy hrm, now I need plywood to finish trailer
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04:51.33 Twingy 0xsleep
04:51.58 Twingy 0xBED
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14:32.13 birdmun trying to figure out how to make a raytrace look like chrome/polished aluminium
14:32.34 birdmun i am guessing it has to do w/ stacking shaders but not sure which ones
14:40.26 brlcad not necessarily
14:40.42 brlcad start with just phong/plastic
14:41.08 brlcad or select metal on the list (which is also phong/plastic, but with different defaults)
14:41.33 birdmun i will have to try that between classes .. thanks
14:41.48 birdmun at least i have figured out how to draw and raytrace
14:43.47 brlcad basically, tweak the reflectivity and specularity values
14:44.12 brlcad middle mouse will tell you what each of them mean
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16:39.04 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
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21:38.46 birdmun the havoc your work brlcad?
21:39.23 birdmun just a mention before i head to work ... 7.6.6 doesnt seem to have a metal shader unless im not looking hard enough
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060309

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060309

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00:29.31 pra5ad ``Erik the revolutionary
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00:37.52 ``Erik ?
00:38.41 pra5ad firing the first shots by taking out webstart
00:44.18 ``Erik hah
00:44.19 ``Erik uh
00:44.21 ``Erik that was a mistake
00:44.28 ``Erik I rm -rf'd the wrong dir :(
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01:06.09 archivist Twingy "pimp my trailer" http://www.archivist.info/pics/1947%20Cow%20trailer%20-%20rvl.jpg
01:07.55 ``Erik uh, that's kinda cool, but where's the wetbar?
01:09.08 ``Erik (is that a mercedes tri-star at the bottom of it?)
01:10.28 archivist or http://www.archivist.info/pics/Chrysler%20Hemi%20Powered%20Bar-B-Que%20Grille.jpg
01:18.24 archivist looks like he raided the kitchen as well to build it
01:38.54 ``Erik hehehe, colbert report rocks
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02:14.32 ``Erik EXTREME VAGINAL MAKEOVER!
02:14.52 brlcad shaddap
02:24.17 ``Erik um... NO!
02:24.21 ``Erik heh, what's up?
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20:31.31 birdmun i was reading thru the appendix A in Tutorial 2 and noticed a mention of animate having its own tutorial
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22:35.12 brlcad birdmun: yes, there are a couple animation tutorials that have been made over time.. one is available on-line, comes up if you search for brl-cad animation
23:59.43 ``Erik O.o
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060310

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060310

00:02.28 archivist acceleration curves and system resonance go nicely together
00:02.57 Twingy I'll see about posting some screen shots of my cam software next week or so
00:07.02 archivist I want to build a cnc gear miller one day, with some form of tool and gear blank measurement
00:07.32 Twingy a standard cnc mill will be able to do that
00:07.45 Twingy in fact one of my templates that come with the software will be a gear
00:07.51 Twingy to show how templates work
00:10.49 archivist all the cheap systems ive seen are open loop and dont center the cutter which is very important on small gears and pinions
00:11.12 archivist I setup machines here with a microscope
00:11.26 Twingy when you see the accuracy of mine you can be the judge of whether it meets your requirements or not
00:14.24 archivist it takes up to a day to setup to make 3mm od 9 tooth pinion (and thats on a Safag swiss pinion miller)
00:14.57 Twingy I'll see how long it takes me to make one when I'm done
02:17.49 ``Erik http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/
02:20.08 Twingy hrm, only 3 hours left to code tonight
02:31.51 brlcad crazy talk
02:32.31 Twingy I'm getting close to done though
02:32.35 ``Erik sleep is for the weak?
02:36.29 Twingy *grumble*
02:42.38 brlcad sleep is for the dead
02:48.06 Twingy man, this is just depressing me
02:54.18 Twingy amazing
02:54.38 Twingy I have 2 and only 2 headers included, signal.h and sys/types.h, and yet implict declaration to kill remains
02:55.10 Twingy even got __USE_POSIX defined too >_<
03:33.02 learner if it's implicit, then you're missing a header
03:33.08 learner or a define
03:33.28 Twingy cant be the case cause I had them all there
03:33.33 Twingy and nothing was undefing shit
03:33.50 Twingy there is some mysterious shit going on in this code
03:35.09 Twingy it's so ugly having to put #define __USE_BSD and crap everywhere
03:35.49 Twingy some stuff needs it defined, other stuff doesn't, it's totally wonky
03:54.37 Twingy you still at work?
04:07.48 learner nah
04:08.29 Twingy freebsd and linux work
04:08.39 Twingy testing altix
04:12.04 Twingy and off it goes
04:16.21 Twingy go baby go
04:23.38 Twingy works
04:23.45 Twingy welp, that takes care of 4
04:23.52 Twingy my work is done
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04:58.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for m4 files and make sure it's consistent on template files between the header and footer scripts
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14:31.13 clock_ brlcad: do you know the Nitro Magnum snowboard?
14:43.38 brlcad not really
14:44.41 clock_ What do you ride?
14:55.39 brlcad a bicycle ;)
14:55.40 brlcad Specialized
15:00.59 clock_ you don't ride a snowboard?
15:02.53 brlcad i wouldn't mind it, probably can
15:03.00 brlcad but haven't tried it
15:03.07 brlcad yet
15:03.14 brlcad usually go skiing
15:04.02 clock_ you can't ride snowboard when you haven't tried it yet.
15:05.10 ``Erik weeeeee
15:05.29 ``Erik see? can too ride a snowboard if you haven't tried it before :D
15:05.39 ``Erik s/o//
15:05.55 ``Erik ibot
15:05.57 ``Erik ghah
15:33.29 clock_ that's not riding snowboard. That's riding a sledge.
15:34.10 clock_ Is ibot AD? Artificial Debility?
15:35.21 brlcad i've asked tim to shut that off, and he did for the other channel .. just not for #brlcad yet
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19:18.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: unable to track down all the tclisms auto_path right now so redefault to build instead of auto
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060311

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060311

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060312

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060312

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01:06.42 Twingy back to coding
02:15.27 pra5ad damn comcrap
02:15.38 Twingy comtrash
02:15.42 pra5ad i cant just pick up the hd reciever
02:15.48 pra5ad they HAVE to send in technicians
02:16.09 Twingy heh
02:16.56 pra5ad earliest slot is 3/16
02:16.57 pra5ad ugh
02:17.26 Twingy I'm already 400+ lines into my cam software
02:17.36 Twingy I'll probly write another 300 tonight
02:28.41 pra5ad ugh
02:28.46 pra5ad make it 3/17, 5pm
02:28.53 pra5ad i want my HD pbs now dammit
02:28.54 pra5ad =(
02:30.14 Twingy what exactly is the problem
02:30.37 pra5ad gotta have the hd box
02:31.06 Twingy hi def?
02:31.11 pra5ad yea
02:31.27 Twingy so you order service and they come install it
02:31.44 pra5ad yes
02:33.01 pra5ad lets see if hdmi is any different than component
02:33.10 pra5ad apparently my tv manufacturer thinks so
02:42.21 Twingy break time
04:15.44 Twingy peanut buttah jelly time
04:17.57 pra5ad brilliant.. i get battlefield 2 and it only runs on xp
04:18.04 pra5ad not my day.
04:30.10 Twingy wee, 500 lines
05:13.05 Twingy mmm
05:34.44 pra5ad lol bf2 just killed my mbr
05:41.35 Twingy tsp graph updated
06:45.15 Twingy and that makes 700 lines
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060313

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060313

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18:02.28 narnia knock, knock, anyone here?
18:03.36 archivist anyone went missing fetching some beer
18:17.05 ``Erik o.O
18:20.31 archivist must have been mugged by Erik
18:24.32 ``Erik all your beer are belong to me
18:42.02 ``Erik why not?
18:42.19 ``Erik and, um, you are aware that you can drink things other than beer... there's no need to be thirsty
18:42.32 ``Erik I mean, there's wine, whiskey, vodka, kahlua, tequila, rum, ...
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18:45.13 archivist cant afford it, I survive on coffee if the boss makes it or water
18:45.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/sh/ (header.sh footer.sh): Changes from HEAD merge.
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21:09.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: center of presented area
22:22.14 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: ws and support for trimming curves on a nurb surface.
22:26.26 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: ws; added support to export trimming curves along with their nurb surface.
22:29.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: ws; initialize trimming curve list and count; added function to add trimming curves to a surface.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060314

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060314

00:21.10 brlcad awesome http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eaxwr/geom.html
00:22.00 brlcad then fed to fem code: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eaxwr/geom2fem.html
00:24.44 archivist 30 miles from here
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00:42.26 ``Erik veddy interestink
00:42.40 ``Erik http://www.speed101.com/gallery/videos.htm damn those're some fast bikes
01:01.37 learner cool
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03:49.55 Twingy oye
03:52.21 Twingy I think I could beat that in my pick-up
06:14.43 Maloeran That doesn't look very comfortable, safe or manoeuvrable. I think I'll stick to my "normal" bicycle and a 35km/h. speed
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22:21.20 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: oops, add support for lists of trim_contours (essentially a list of curves) since any given trim contour may be composed of multiple curves.
22:28.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c:
22:28.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: modify import/export5 to support reading and writing the trimming
22:28.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: curves from the db. this change makes the nurbs format
22:28.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: incompatible with previous versions.
22:32.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: added some util functions to create a trim_contour as well as add curves to it, and add it to a nurb surface.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060315

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060315

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18:25.09 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060316

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060316

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13:53.08 brlcad hm
13:53.25 brlcad sf tracker parser is sort of working
13:55.48 ``Erik ?
13:57.15 brlcad writing a script that grabs data from all the trackers and a few files in cvs to generate a master "report"
13:57.27 brlcad for .. someone .. that likes to see big spreadsheets of data
13:58.17 brlcad and yes, this is why the release is being delayed
13:58.17 ``Erik oh
13:58.18 ``Erik heh
13:58.29 ``Erik let me know when he's in so I can punch his head a few tmes for ya ;)
13:58.30 ``Erik *duck*
13:58.46 brlcad who said he
13:58.58 ``Erik oh, ah, so direct, not via the proper channel
13:58.58 ``Erik ok
14:00.40 ``Erik huh, ya guys aren't using the tasker?
14:06.56 ``Erik man, two weeks since announcing the release...
14:17.42 brlcad i use the tasker as time permits
14:17.54 brlcad using the gforge tasker for internal projects
14:29.38 ``Erik the sf one has no subprojects listed o.O :)
14:30.37 brlcad hmm, whatchootalking bout willis
14:30.44 brlcad TODO
17:23.10 ``Erik a/det
17:23.10 ``Erik a/det
17:23.12 ``Erik ghah
17:29.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/generic/entryfield.itk: Modified the _keyPress method to propagate the <Return> event if the -command option is empty.
17:36.10 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.5
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20:53.04 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): merge from HEAD
21:08.36 Maloeran All these messages from lilo about reaching 30k users being "Kind of a nice feeling", and many others, are scary in a way... The guy seems to have dedicated his existence to the IRC network
21:40.27 ``Erik indeed o.O
21:41.14 ``Erik I've a feeling that he's 42, lives in his moms basement, and is incapable of talking in the presense of a (non-related) female o.O
21:41.18 ``Erik O:-)
21:53.26 brlcad heh
21:53.53 brlcad he has dedicated himself to it, it's his full-time job now
21:54.47 archivist he keeps the spam bastards under control
21:54.48 brlcad he has a family too
21:56.35 ``Erik who lives above him? mainly his mom? :D
21:56.37 ``Erik *duck*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060317

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060317

01:52.06 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net)
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16:31.14 ``Erik prasad is hungry.
16:32.46 iday pra5ad doesn't have his own voice?
16:33.04 ``Erik he is not clever enough to be here right now
16:33.10 iday heh
16:33.17 ``Erik so he walked into my office to get me to see if justin and/or sean were interested
16:33.18 ``Erik heh
16:33.29 iday what about gym?
16:33.40 Maloeran Ah, so he escaped from that place called "outside" where he was trapped yesterday
16:34.11 ``Erik heh, apparently, mal :) he's a bit embarrased that it's common knowledge ;D
16:34.48 iday iday = phcoder
16:35.07 iday but my nick was... um... taken
16:35.32 ``Erik ahhh, with both you and sean ooo, I guess he has no will to pick heavy things up just to put them back down
16:35.54 iday hah
16:36.48 Maloeran Yup ``Erik, it's common knowledge all the way back to Canada :)
16:37.21 ``Erik what? there's knowledge in canada? :D *duck*
16:37.58 iday what about?
16:38.06 ``Erik oconus to canuckia
16:38.13 iday ah yes.
16:38.14 ``Erik I was a bit late
17:04.38 ``Erik mmm mmmmm, cup o' noodles.
17:10.30 ``Erik heh, I bought a big ol' jar of couscous and have eaten it exactly once o.O
17:11.39 Maloeran Ah I have mine delivered, I can't cook that well
19:04.03 Twingy ``Erik, you see the screenshot?
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20:23.08 ``Erik screenie of what?
20:23.33 ``Erik btw, I fixed that ssh thing just now... so'z you can get into that machine again
20:24.09 Twingy http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_SS_20060316.png
20:24.40 ``Erik gtk2, and gtkglarea?
20:24.47 Twingy gtkglext
20:24.59 ``Erik nifty
20:26.17 archivist_ashby its a png couldnt see it move
20:27.40 Twingy with any luck I'll have time to get it spitting out g-code this weekend
20:33.30 archivist_ashby ooo
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22:09.14 pra5ad fucking idiots at comast
22:09.16 pra5ad comcast
22:09.20 pra5ad AHHHHHHh
22:09.54 pra5ad i ask for hdmi+dvr and they bring me a box w/o hdmi and w/o dvr
22:10.18 pra5ad most excellent way to spend annual leave
22:12.39 docelic haha
22:23.09 ``Erik ghah, I accidently listened to some screamo
22:59.06 *** part/#brlcad archivist_ashby (n=archivis@host213-123-228-55.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
23:08.40 ``Erik ghah, thanks for reminding me, jason
23:17.14 Twingy that's my job
23:17.24 ``Erik twinky, what dates did you reserve for?
23:17.48 Twingy guess
23:17.56 ``Erik the defaults?
23:18.01 Twingy no
23:18.19 Twingy we always leave 1 day before event, and leave the day after
23:18.25 Twingy *arrive
23:19.25 pra5ad wouldnt that be the default
23:19.33 pra5ad on the hotel reservation site at least
23:20.28 Twingy no
23:20.35 ``Erik actually, they have departure listed as the same day as the end
23:20.38 Twingy because default is leaving day OF event
23:20.47 ``Erik so 7/29-8/04 ?
23:20.47 pra5ad oh woops
23:20.52 Twingy silly wabbit
23:21.18 pra5ad i got an F
23:24.15 Twingy you two shacking?
23:24.30 pra5ad nein
23:25.31 pra5ad heh, another guy contacts me thru gdc
23:26.29 pra5ad tata
23:29.59 ``Erik yay, I'm registered
23:30.13 Twingy westin?
23:30.22 ``Erik yup
23:30.45 ``Erik hm, $64/day m&ie, if I treat it like 52, I'm good
23:31.23 Twingy I can get a few steaks for that
23:31.25 ``Erik heh, or if I cash out the travel comp time o.O
23:31.44 Twingy how's that work?
23:32.19 ``Erik you fill out fairly detailed forms for the travel (when you were where, how long you waited for what, etc), some of it applies towards travel comp, if you let it sit for 2 months, it cashes out at overtime rates, I believe
23:32.45 ``Erik last year, I did travel comp for siggraph, lee did not as he was afraid it would give 'them' an excuse not to send us next year
23:32.47 Twingy that's quick
23:32.52 ``Erik *nod*
23:32.53 Twingy regular comp time takes over 6 months
23:33.11 ``Erik did it for java1, too
23:33.49 ``Erik it does require some detailed logging of the trip, though
23:34.09 Twingy maybe I should get out my crayons then
23:35.18 ``Erik heh, we could try a mass justification for going over per diem, the 'actual expense' on lodging... wendy seemed to think a single large group waiver would fly o.O
23:35.51 Twingy I'm not over on lodging
23:36.00 Twingy therefore I don't care :)
23:36.22 ``Erik aight *shrug* even if you and sean could grab a second room and have private singles, instead?
23:36.37 Twingy yea, he wakes my ass up when I'm too tired
23:36.46 Twingy *crack*
23:36.48 Twingy :)
23:36.52 ``Erik unless he finds someone elses room to crash in ;) *duck*
23:37.08 Twingy hey, I'm down with sloppy seconds
23:37.37 ``Erik would be a step up from last year? *duck* *run* :D
23:37.39 Twingy and in that case I'd have a quad to myself, heh
23:37.55 Twingy I called about suits
23:37.59 Twingy ~$1200 a night
23:38.04 Twingy suites
23:38.06 ``Erik yowch
23:38.40 ``Erik and I assume they dont' have 8 beds? heh
23:38.51 Twingy we could probly get one with 7 people staying in one
23:38.58 ``Erik that'd be over per diem
23:39.04 Twingy that's alright
23:39.06 Twingy it's a suite
23:39.13 Twingy you are so finicky about money you know that :)
23:39.38 ``Erik um, heh, I'm paying over per diem for this lodging, you're not, dude
23:40.00 ``Erik also; I have responsibilities now, I can't be throwing money around like you
23:40.01 Twingy so shack up with jason, prasaid, mike or tim
23:40.14 Twingy heh, responsitibilities *snicker*
23:40.15 ``Erik I have to be a grown-up... my baby's depending on me
23:40.39 Twingy you irc'ing from the garage?
23:40.46 ``Erik always
23:40.50 ``Erik o.O kitchen, actually
23:40.54 ``Erik it was a metaphorical pet
23:41.22 ``Erik dr who at 9
23:41.30 Twingy yea, looks like total suckage though
23:41.44 ``Erik it might be... the new doc seems like a yokel goob
23:41.53 ``Erik and; he ain't baker.
23:42.08 Twingy I should call chuck
23:42.15 ``Erik he's busy playing tribes, or working
23:44.11 ``Erik so what're you gonna do if sean gives you a hitler?:D
23:44.26 Twingy I'll be drunk, I won't care
23:44.55 Twingy but after the trip I'll smash his flat panels :)
23:46.26 Twingy don't spill any teqilla on it
23:46.34 Twingy *tequilla
23:46.43 ``Erik pjt bounced back my oconus with a couple really minor changes today, I THINK he may've signed it to send off to the expanse
23:46.53 ``Erik *splash* *ZZZTTTTTT*
23:56.57 Twingy tsp did well this week
23:59.52 Twingy I suspect I will hit 40k on my tsp sometime this year
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060318

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060318

00:04.05 Twingy I think I'm gonna work on my cam software tonight
00:14.31 Twingy welp, I'm done work for the day
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060319

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060319

02:08.05 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net)
04:20.21 Twingy woo
06:18.31 *** join/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-255-21-2.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
06:19.00 birdmun so i generated a rim but each time i draw it i get an error msg
06:19.05 birdmun Warning: region unioned into region at '/finhub1.c/hub1.c/fullhub1.r/hubfr1.r', lower region info ignored
06:19.24 birdmun any good ways to avoid this in the future?
06:31.42 Twingy hrm
06:32.02 Twingy if I were coherent I could help you
06:39.06 birdmun i understand :)
06:39.37 birdmun i have logging enabled ... even if i dont get a response in the next couple hours i will still be able to find it
06:40.31 Twingy stop back at 12PM EST
06:40.37 Twingy people will be awake then
06:40.52 birdmun np
07:13.49 brlcad birdmun: yes, don't make regions out of regions :)
07:14.24 brlcad marking something as a region is what defines that object as taking up physical space
07:14.45 brlcad in any given CSG hierarchy, there should only be one region along any given path down the hierarchy
07:15.11 brlcad you have two there.. fullhub1.r unioned hubfr1.r.. it shouldn't
07:15.40 brlcad it should either union what's inside hubfb1.r or hubfb1.r shouldn't be a region in the first place
07:16.30 brlcad all depends on the model as for what's the best solution
07:18.21 *** join/#brlcad birdmun_ (n=birdmun@ppp-70-255-21-2.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
07:25.49 birdmun_ what i did was made a cylinder and then removed two cylinders from it ... one on each side
07:26.02 birdmun_ so i was disconnected for a few moments what did i miss?
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14:43.10 brlcad birdmun_: from the sound of it, there is likely that there was nothing wrong with your CSG operations
14:43.25 brlcad just an error in how you're using/understanding what it means to be a region
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14:58.12 brlcad takes a while for new modelers, but think of the difference as being a pattern for a shape versus being actual material
17:27.01 birdmun_ ok can i add a region to a region ?
17:28.15 birdmun_ if i would have removed the inside from a cylinder and then added the center of the rim as a completed unit ... design, bolt holes and all
18:18.55 brlcad you can add a region to a region, but you're not supposed to -- you should only add combinations to regions and regions to combinations
18:19.03 brlcad or combinations to combinations
18:19.11 brlcad but not regions to regions
18:19.59 brlcad again it has nothing to do with the CSG operation -- you can remove insides, add to the center, etc.. none of that is a problem
18:20.14 brlcad the problem is at what level in the hierarchy are you calling objects a region
18:22.27 brlcad you might benefit from not having/using any regions for starters until the modeling hierarchy is a little more familiar
19:31.42 birdmun_ alright
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22:57.57 *** part/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060320

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060320

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02:26.22 *** mode/#brlcad [+ooo learner ChanServ brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
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05:25.26 pra5ad-sj =)
05:54.30 brlcad heh
06:09.19 pra5ad-sj they gave me an equinox
06:09.24 pra5ad-sj im not an suv person
06:10.49 pra5ad-sj heh so i go looking for food and stumble across ebay HQ
06:11.15 pra5ad-sj they have signs all over that says "we're hiring"
06:21.49 pra5ad-sj omg there's a japanese channel
10:37.39 *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
16:10.41 Maloeran Justin or Erik, are you nearby?
16:13.28 *** join/#brlcad learner (n=brlcad@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
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16:13.28 *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by irc.freenode.net
20:06.49 *** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com)
20:14.14 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:14.44 tegtmeye brlcad, killed it again, can you reset? Sorry;)
20:23.41 brlcad done
20:23.51 tegtmeye thanks
20:28.51 tegtmeye the server appears to be dead.
20:28.59 tegtmeye http that is...
21:21.15 brlcad pra5ad: how is it?
22:01.14 tegtmeye eh?
22:15.49 ``Erik o.O
22:30.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: added new nurbs function declarations
22:33.19 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: fixed function names to make more sense
22:33.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: fixed function name to make more sense; fixed compiler warning
22:50.47 tegtmeye worked thanks...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060321

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060321

03:16.45 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
03:17.15 pra5ad-sj so i got a potential customer for pvt
03:17.16 pra5ad-sj lol
03:35.49 brlcad you're supposed to stay logged in all day to provide streaming updates
03:36.12 brlcad photos of the good stuff
03:36.19 brlcad running commentary
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03:41.11 pra5ad-sj dude no wifi till weds
03:41.18 pra5ad-sj until expo starts
03:41.31 pra5ad-sj and nothing worth of any pics =(
03:41.43 pra5ad-sj well not yet; besides maybe the cg gallery
03:42.13 pra5ad-sj i was pitching damage models to redstorm (of rainbow six fame)
03:42.20 pra5ad-sj got contacts
03:42.58 pra5ad-sj talked to a guy from intel research
03:43.13 jbabcock hi folks, are there any recommended tutorials/docs for a neophyte other than what's available at http://www.brlcad.org/?
03:43.19 pra5ad-sj wants to know my 'requirements' for realtime raytracing h/w
03:52.27 brlcad jbabcock: those are the usual starting points
03:52.39 brlcad there's also help inside of mged on the help menu, albeit slightly dated
03:52.49 jbabcock ok, thanks. Already looking over them.
03:53.23 pra5ad-sj tomorrow is m$ day
03:53.25 pra5ad-sj =(
03:56.17 brlcad jbabcock: there's a pretty nice and short tutorial here too: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1447646&forum_id=362509
03:56.45 jbabcock thanks
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03:58.04 brlcad pra5ad: until the expo starts? that's odd ..
03:58.35 pra5ad-sj yea
03:58.41 pra5ad-sj im sorta dissapointed
03:58.54 pra5ad-sj it doesnt look to be well organized
03:58.59 pra5ad-sj at least not as well as J1
03:59.07 brlcad heh
03:59.21 brlcad it also costs less than a third iirc
03:59.22 pra5ad-sj im not knocking the subject matter =)
03:59.46 pra5ad-sj j1? twice as much
03:59.53 brlcad only twice? :)
03:59.58 pra5ad-sj heh
04:00.14 pra5ad-sj i can compare siggraph in august
04:00.24 brlcad siggraph is usually massively well organized
04:00.35 pra5ad-sj we'll see how 1/3price affects it
04:00.49 pra5ad-sj heh m$ are such bastards
04:00.56 pra5ad-sj right in the middle of the convention center
04:00.59 pra5ad-sj a wet bar
04:01.03 pra5ad-sj i mean wtf
04:01.43 brlcad heh, excellent
04:01.53 pra5ad-sj im gonna be in line on weds .. early morning
04:02.00 pra5ad-sj schwag raid
04:02.21 brlcad hm
04:02.36 brlcad just remember
04:02.41 pra5ad-sj want an XNA cd? got one with the crappy reg stuff
04:02.46 brlcad what happens in san jose stays in san jose
04:03.08 pra5ad-sj this place is desolate
04:03.22 pra5ad-sj every restaurant here is empty
04:03.37 brlcad how big has the conference gotten?
04:03.42 brlcad couple thousand?
04:03.51 brlcad guess the expo opening will be th most telling
04:03.52 pra5ad-sj yea sounds about right
04:04.02 pra5ad-sj not many mon/tues
04:04.07 pra5ad-sj lots for the expo
04:04.14 pra5ad-sj and the keynotes, im sure
04:04.28 pra5ad-sj cant wait till friday
04:04.45 pra5ad-sj im gonna bug scea about my cell dev kit
04:04.47 pra5ad-sj =)
04:04.49 brlcad can't imagine it's as big as siggraph yet
04:04.54 pra5ad-sj oh hell no
04:04.59 pra5ad-sj j1 was bigger
04:05.28 brlcad you hear/remember the official stat on how many attended j1 last year?
04:05.42 pra5ad-sj dont remember
04:05.47 pra5ad-sj i think 2-3k?
04:06.14 pra5ad-sj i remember someone saying it was way smaller than siggraph
04:06.16 pra5ad-sj so *shrug*
04:06.30 pra5ad-sj SJ is one clean city tho
04:06.37 pra5ad-sj the light rail is awesome
04:07.24 brlcad mm, sun says j1 was about 15k last year..
04:07.42 pra5ad-sj hmm interesting
04:07.47 pra5ad-sj sum of 5 days? heh
04:07.55 pra5ad-sj i certainly didnt see 15k ppl
04:08.00 brlcad undoubtedly includes everyone that just passes through the expo floor
04:08.37 pra5ad-sj man most of the coders from the big houses
04:08.42 pra5ad-sj like bioware and bethesda
04:08.50 pra5ad-sj havent seen a treadmill in ages
04:09.06 pra5ad-sj heehee
04:09.21 brlcad not too unbelievable, siggraph 2005 was about 30k
04:09.35 brlcad i can imagine..
04:09.46 pra5ad-sj lots of koreans and japanese here
04:10.08 pra5ad-sj i cant seem to find the square-enix ppl
04:13.35 pra5ad-sj dont really care much for the gpgpu stuff
04:14.16 pra5ad-sj went to the 'embodied agents in games' tutorial
04:14.22 pra5ad-sj 8hrs of powerpoint...
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060322

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060322

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03:20.50 Twingy hey mal
03:21.04 Maloeran Hi Justin, having fun with xml then? :)
03:21.22 Twingy no, gtk+ switch from item factory to xml shit for menu bars
03:21.56 Twingy I'm disgruntled cause I have to press buttons on my keyboard to fix
03:22.10 Twingy I'd rather be eating rice krispy treats
03:22.11 Maloeran I personally never got the interest about xml, besides being slow to parse, akward and huge in size
03:22.17 Maloeran Eheh
03:47.44 brlcad mm.. rice krispies
03:56.28 Twingy mmm fig newtony goodness *Drool*
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03:58.02 pra5ad-sj arrr
03:58.02 Twingy hrm, I need to find a nice pool table
03:58.37 pra5ad-sj i need business cards
03:58.51 Twingy "Professional Male Slut" ?
03:58.52 pra5ad-sj feel so ashamed saying 'uh.. i dont have one'
03:58.54 Twingy :)
03:59.29 pra5ad-sj so two new contacts today
03:59.36 pra5ad-sj saic and zombie games
03:59.48 pra5ad-sj they've apparently created a game based on fcs
03:59.53 pra5ad-sj looks interesting
03:59.58 pra5ad-sj will get demo soon
04:00.15 Twingy whut's fcs
04:00.20 pra5ad-sj it's more pr than anything else; but playable
04:00.28 pra5ad-sj future combat systems?
04:00.37 Twingy oh, FCS
04:00.45 pra5ad-sj .. yes
04:01.08 pra5ad-sj spent the day at the serious games summit
04:01.15 pra5ad-sj lots of fluff talk by academics
04:01.20 Twingy is that where you are?
04:01.23 pra5ad-sj quite amusing
04:01.36 pra5ad-sj naw, no wifi until tomorrow
04:01.41 pra5ad-sj when expo starts
04:01.55 Twingy heh, I thought you were upstairs today, hehe
04:02.18 pra5ad-sj wont be until next week ;)
04:02.33 Twingy I think dixie is missing a tps report from you
04:02.39 pra5ad-sj got two books on opengl and realistic rendering
04:02.41 Twingy j/k :)
04:02.45 pra5ad-sj im sure she is
04:02.52 pra5ad-sj and she cant do a damn thing about it
04:03.12 pra5ad-sj found a way to render csg in opengl
04:03.21 pra5ad-sj gonna implement that when i get back just for kicks
04:03.55 Twingy using depth and stencil buffer me thinks
04:04.44 pra5ad-sj heh it sucks not being a real game designer; dont have anything to say to em besides the ones involved with dod or military based tactical shooters
04:04.50 pra5ad-sj and i already met them all
04:04.54 pra5ad-sj Twingy, yea
04:06.04 brlcad i miss my pool table
04:06.16 pra5ad-sj and all i can really ask them is 'uh.. u guys need a better damage model?'
04:06.23 brlcad but man is that a bear to move.. worse than a piano
04:06.55 Twingy worse than moving a couch downstairs?
04:07.00 Twingy by yourself? :)
04:07.00 brlcad yeah
04:07.53 pra5ad-sj why are u moving pool tables by urself
04:07.58 brlcad they're several hundred pounds heavy, the really nice ones have a solid slab of granite or other marble for the surface
04:08.37 Twingy the alternative is to install a slip n' slide in the basement
04:08.50 pra5ad-sj heh tegtmeye should be here
04:08.52 pra5ad-sj c++ heaven
04:11.13 pra5ad-sj ohh gdc synopsis on /.
04:11.41 Twingy any cute chicks there?
04:12.40 pra5ad-sj sure; the wannabe hippie artsy types
04:12.53 pra5ad-sj self proclaimed game designing gods
04:13.29 Twingy glBegin(GL_Polygamy);
04:13.29 pra5ad-sj =)
04:14.35 pra5ad-sj u know, from the descriptions of siggraph that uve given me, i can say that gdc is inching closer to that demographic
04:14.58 pra5ad-sj there are less programmers than biz/arts/designer types
04:16.22 pra5ad-sj hah http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/03/21/220232.shtml
04:16.30 pra5ad-sj i was at the jesper juul talk
04:16.47 pra5ad-sj he was trying to answer 'can a video game make you cry'
04:17.11 pra5ad-sj and his conclusion was - only user created content makes ppl cry
04:17.17 pra5ad-sj which is such bullshit
04:17.41 pra5ad-sj more fud from academia
04:17.50 Maloeran I remember feeling tears from ff6 on snes
04:18.03 Twingy I suspect if the video game sprayed mace in your face everytime your character died you would cry o.O
04:18.04 pra5ad-sj same with ff7
04:18.16 brlcad the artsy side of siggraph sure makes for better eye candy
04:18.25 pra5ad-sj no doubt
04:18.29 brlcad especially the artsy attendees
04:18.36 Twingy mmm artsy attendees
04:18.43 Twingy ...in the cute little vests
04:18.58 Twingy two chick at the same time man
04:19.10 pra5ad-sj in one vest?
04:19.17 brlcad heh, that was on just yesterday
04:19.25 brlcad sci fi was playing it i think
04:19.28 Twingy watch your cornhole prasad
04:19.32 brlcad heh
04:19.53 pra5ad-sj chappelle?
04:20.13 pra5ad-sj .. is not sci fi
04:20.57 pra5ad-sj sci fi played that?
04:20.59 brlcad don't worry pra5ad, they let you have conjugial visits
04:21.14 brlcad ~spell conjugal
04:21.17 pra5ad-sj mmm kay
04:21.47 pra5ad-sj hows ARHelL
04:22.00 brlcad peachy
04:22.14 pra5ad-sj hmph
04:22.31 pra5ad-sj there's gonna be about 20 booths with recruiters
04:22.37 pra5ad-sj for major companies
04:22.43 pra5ad-sj game* companies
04:22.47 pra5ad-sj and i have 0 resumes
04:22.48 brlcad that's a meat grinder
04:23.04 pra5ad-sj not that i have a chance anyways =)
04:25.14 Maloeran I would expect ARL's research to be more satisfying than highly controlled and stressing game programming
04:25.15 Twingy you could always try and give one of the booth people a happy ending
04:26.30 pra5ad-sj stress trying to meet deadlines or trying to hurdle over miles of red tape
04:26.31 Twingy sean, I'm going to advocate sgi machins running BeOS in our meeting tomorrow just to play with drew
04:26.36 pra5ad-sj *shrug*
04:27.41 pra5ad-sj heh i ran into a java game that i first saw as an alpha test at javaone2005
04:27.50 pra5ad-sj looks like they're in final beta
04:27.58 pra5ad-sj www.tribaltrouble.com
04:28.08 pra5ad-sj uses jogl
04:29.01 brlcad Twingy: hehe
04:29.10 brlcad that'd be awesome
04:29.21 brlcad probably would run faster
04:29.33 brlcad if such a beast were possible
04:30.16 pra5ad-sj man if i ever get the damn cell dev kit and port adrt or whatever distributed rt on it
04:30.20 Twingy if we can talk steve into a 12 node linux machine, I might be tempted to go with that over the apple :)
04:30.38 pra5ad-sj ARL will be going to e3 2k6 or gdc 2k7
04:30.50 Twingy you mean you will?
04:30.54 Twingy :)
04:31.10 pra5ad-sj nah
04:31.15 pra5ad-sj u can talk about the guts of it
04:31.19 brlcad can't imagine easily justifying e3
04:31.21 pra5ad-sj ill just talk about the portage
04:31.28 brlcad unless you're presenting
04:31.29 pra5ad-sj hey, if we get invited...
04:31.31 pra5ad-sj yes
04:32.11 pra5ad-sj and im damn sure sony wants some sort of 'killer app' for the ps3
04:32.23 pra5ad-sj something that'll warrant this delay
04:32.43 pra5ad-sj and something that'll show the 'power' of the ppu/spus
04:33.48 Maloeran Cell really is a nice architecture, perfect on the ISA side of things. Unified memory banks, Itanium-style, could have been nicer though... for ray-tracing anyway :)
04:34.21 pra5ad-sj hehe
04:34.44 pra5ad-sj when i talked to the intel guy yesteday
04:34.53 pra5ad-sj (not sure if i said this already but..)
04:35.00 pra5ad-sj he said intel was more afraid of cell than amd
04:35.07 pra5ad-sj er whatever amd is putting out
04:35.24 Maloeran They should be, AMD is stuck within the standards Intel created and it greatly limits performance
04:36.23 Maloeran Cell is an excellent architecture designed from scratch, it's about time IBM shows Intel what a good standard looks like
04:37.18 pra5ad-sj this is unofficial but, he mentioned having a microengine in future chips
04:37.19 Maloeran The only "flaws" might be the 32 bits addressing and the chip-specific memory banks, but it's a tradeoff
04:37.38 pra5ad-sj 3 gp cores and an app specific one
04:37.55 pra5ad-sj that'd be interesting to see
04:38.05 pra5ad-sj tho i dont think that'll come to fruition
04:38.31 Maloeran There are verious serious flaws within ia32/amd64 that prevent any kind of scability like Cell allows
04:38.53 Maloeran Intel fixed the scability issues with Itanium, but they messed up horribly on other points
04:39.44 pra5ad-sj hmm i really should read up on cell's isa
04:39.50 pra5ad-sj got a link handy?
04:40.08 Maloeran Hum I don't have that bookmarked, it shouldn't be hard to find
04:41.40 Maloeran Far superior in design and usability to Altivec, I wouldn't dare comparing SSE against Cell
06:00.58 pra5ad-sj how do i batch rename a bunch of jpgs that have spaces in the filename
06:02.02 Twingy find . -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \;
06:02.14 Twingy might wanna through a -name "*.jpg"
06:02.23 Twingy find . -name "*.jpg" -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \;
06:07.20 pra5ad-sj :. find . -name "*.jpg" -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \;
06:07.20 pra5ad-sj sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unterminated `s' command
06:07.20 pra5ad-sj mv: missing file argument
06:08.33 Twingy oh yea, the brackets
06:10.47 pra5ad-sj ?
06:11.54 Twingy chatting, afk
06:48.47 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more detail on the libtool cc1plus bug, fixed in libtool 1.5.10 but broken in previous versions where a c++ compiler becomes required.. try to bypass the error by aliasing cc1plus to cc1 (untested)
06:48.58 Twingy k
06:48.58 Twingy uh
06:55.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/configure.ac: erp, previous commit included a conflicted merge from head .. unconflict
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16:58.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh:
16:58.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: initial script that interacts with the Sourceforge website and extracts data
16:58.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: from the trackers available for a given project. the tracker data is
16:58.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: conglomerated into a CSV file suitable for import into a spreadsheet
16:58.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: application.
16:59.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include the new tracker.sh in the distribution, install it
17:02.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new tracker tool for extracting sf.net tracker data
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21:04.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: added the rt.h header so it would be installed
21:06.01 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: Added magic check for trim_contour struct.
21:06.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: Added function to free trim_contour structure, and the list of curves it contains.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060323

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060323

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02:19.57 pra5ad-sj agh
02:19.59 pra5ad-sj so tired
02:20.10 pra5ad-sj ps3 keynote was cool
02:20.23 pra5ad-sj i swear if phil harrison was selling dog shit ppl would buy it
02:20.31 pra5ad-sj great spokesman
02:20.38 pra5ad-sj motorstorm looked FANTASTIC
02:29.34 ``Erik bring me back a boothbabe or 3
02:29.46 ``Erik (or does gdc have those?)
02:53.10 Twingy my pbring me back a bag of dog shit
02:55.53 pra5ad-sj heh only s3 had them
02:55.59 pra5ad-sj and this korean publisher
02:56.01 pra5ad-sj venus something
02:56.17 pra5ad-sj noone really cared tho heh
02:58.48 ``Erik mmmm, korean girls...
02:59.39 pra5ad-sj i got the runaround at the ps3 booth
02:59.42 Twingy oh man
02:59.43 Twingy that's nasty
03:00.01 pra5ad-sj now i gotta go hunt this guy to order a ps3 dev kit
03:00.09 pra5ad-sj $5k says phil harrison
03:01.52 pra5ad-sj rofl twas funny going around the 'career growth' booths for the big names and asking what their dmg models were
03:01.59 pra5ad-sj HR ppl are funny
03:02.19 pra5ad-sj 'um.. are you looking for a job?'
03:02.22 pra5ad-sj heehee
03:02.58 pra5ad-sj redstorm's booth had a dev who knew his shit
03:03.10 pra5ad-sj talked about what they were doing in sp/mp modes
03:03.22 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c:
03:03.22 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: db_recurse() was trying to free an rt_db_internal that might not have
03:03.22 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: anything in it (bug #1220146)
03:03.26 pra5ad-sj they want to have a dialogue on it
03:03.39 pra5ad-sj good opportunity me thinks
03:04.04 pra5ad-sj garage games' booth was very disspointing
03:04.10 pra5ad-sj legions was bleh
03:04.22 pra5ad-sj it was nothing more than a tech demo
03:04.26 pra5ad-sj a simple one at that
03:05.40 pra5ad-sj i was also at the AI roundtable
03:06.09 pra5ad-sj one academic was talking about using a ps3 to replace his cluster for GA/ANN simulations
03:09.52 brlcad john rocks
03:11.08 pra5ad-sj hey sean
03:11.10 pra5ad-sj see my email?
03:11.34 brlcad yeah
03:11.38 pra5ad-sj heh
03:11.56 brlcad so you're going to start listening
03:12.00 brlcad bridge that abyss
03:12.02 pra5ad-sj i have no motivation to do what he suggested
03:12.11 pra5ad-sj so no
03:12.12 pra5ad-sj =)
03:12.51 brlcad missed an excellent biceps/triceps pairing today
03:12.58 pra5ad-sj dont u think that role should be taken by the PM?
03:13.07 brlcad no comment
03:13.14 pra5ad-sj wha
03:28.32 pra5ad-sj o yea
03:28.46 pra5ad-sj there were these ppl with endlagnow.org signs
03:28.50 pra5ad-sj hehe
03:30.04 pra5ad-sj oh it's an actualy site :o
03:30.08 pra5ad-sj -y
04:24.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
04:24.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: john fixed the mged crash bug where running the B command on bad geometry would
04:24.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: cause the crash. he reports that This was caused by a bug in db_recurse() where
04:24.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: it would try to free an rt_db_internal even when there was nothing to free. The
04:24.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: fix was to check that there is actually something there before freeing. This
04:24.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: eliminates the crashing, but the bad geometry will still not be drawn. (fixes sf
04:24.19 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: bug 1220146, reported by Karel Kulhavy - clock3)
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05:19.13 pra5ad-sj retired john?
05:20.41 Twingy
05:36.14 pra5ad-sj ah yes.. knew i forgot something
05:36.27 pra5ad-sj warhawk uses a raytracer to render volumetric clouds
05:36.35 pra5ad-sj will use*
05:36.43 pra5ad-sj and the raytracer is running on a single spu
05:36.52 pra5ad-sj the demo was proof of it
05:37.00 pra5ad-sj and looks well integrated
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17:01.14 tegtmeye she has no idea what she is talking about
20:42.48 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: itcl/tk needs to match tcl/tk building default of 'on' until the bugs are sorted out
23:23.38 Twingy mmm dinner
23:23.57 tegtmeye uh, I guess it *is* time to go home eh?
23:24.58 Twingy only if you feel like being home I suppose :)
23:25.44 tegtmeye girls feel better at home...
23:26.30 Twingy compared to at work?
23:27.34 tegtmeye do you *need* me to enumerate the women at work?
23:28.05 Twingy what, you don't find darlene attractive?
23:28.13 Twingy you had me fooled :)
23:28.17 tegtmeye lol
23:29.40 *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
23:40.30 ``Erik hah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060324

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060324

00:14.19 *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
00:26.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtarea.1: -v for viewsize is not longer that option
01:18.19 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye_ (n=tegtmeye@pool-71-248-83-186.bltmmd.east.verizon.net)
01:55.29 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
03:21.28 *** join/#brlcad prasad (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
03:21.41 prasad im turning into a marketing schill
03:21.52 prasad trying to sell a product that doesnt exist
03:26.12 Twingy then hurry up and write it
03:27.49 prasad i told them justin shumaker was lead engineer
03:27.55 prasad and to direct all technical questions to him
03:28.00 prasad and gave them ur cell #
03:28.07 Twingy good, cause I can get the shit done :)
03:28.19 prasad ;)
03:28.26 prasad so yea
03:28.32 Twingy okay, living room is all torn up
03:28.40 prasad sony is being a little bitch
03:28.40 Twingy probly not as bad as mikes
03:28.53 prasad wont sell me the dev kit unless i pose as a middleware company
03:29.05 prasad now can i do that w/o arl backing?
03:29.05 Twingy so start a middleware company? :)
03:29.06 prasad =)
03:29.16 prasad u got venture capital?
03:29.23 Twingy cost you $125 to register a company in deleware
03:29.24 prasad if so, lets do it
03:29.39 Twingy you don't need vc
03:29.49 prasad dev kit costs $$
03:29.51 prasad u got $5k?
03:29.58 Twingy bittorent
03:30.01 prasad that's the price point in 2 weeks
03:30.08 Twingy yea :)
03:30.16 prasad yes.. bittorrent hardware..
03:30.30 Twingy wouldn't spend it on that junk though
03:30.48 Twingy I'd rather get a new dining room set and hardwood floor
03:30.54 Twingy :)
03:30.57 prasad im sure i can get wendy to buy one
03:31.03 Twingy hah
03:31.06 Twingy haha
03:31.07 prasad posing as a middleware company might cause her to implode
03:31.16 prasad u know it's on my objectives right?
03:31.21 Twingy she is faaaaar to risk adverse
03:31.22 prasad acquiring cell hardware?
03:31.30 Twingy you'd have better luck getting it through bill
03:31.48 prasad im allowed to circumvent the branch chief?
03:31.48 Twingy he seems to be uncle warbucks lately
03:31.59 Twingy no, but it didn't stop me with alexis
03:32.14 Twingy she just doesn't know what's good for her
03:32.26 prasad i didnt follow ur previous comment
03:32.35 prasad u convinced her to bring on board alexis
03:32.35 Twingy I didn't expect you to
03:32.44 Twingy that's the perception, yes :)
03:32.59 prasad well i convinced wendy to send me to gdc
03:33.04 prasad so i have something going for me
03:33.05 prasad =)
03:33.08 Twingy cause it's training
03:33.14 Twingy where's wendy today
03:33.15 Twingy training
03:33.19 prasad heh
03:33.20 Twingy big surprise!
03:33.49 prasad the sony guy was telling me about a company called mercury or something like that
03:33.51 prasad from germany
03:33.56 prasad that does real time rt
03:33.58 Twingy I herd of them
03:34.05 Twingy from siggraph 04 and 05
03:34.07 prasad apparently showcased at siggraph
03:34.09 prasad ah
03:34.33 Twingy yartc
03:34.43 prasad so i have an intel and sony contact
03:35.03 prasad waiting for ibm to email me back about dev kits
03:35.14 Twingy find any women?
03:35.20 prasad nop
03:35.27 Twingy sheesh
03:35.35 prasad u shouldnt be talking
03:35.38 prasad =)
03:35.39 Twingy hey
03:35.58 Twingy last siggraph woulda been perfect if she didn't have a kid
03:36.10 prasad uh huh
03:36.16 Twingy there's always boston
03:36.26 Twingy so I get to spin the wheel of siggraph again
03:36.30 prasad heh u guys should see the will wright keynote
03:36.33 prasad fucking hilarious
03:36.47 prasad guy started talking about the russian space program
03:36.49 prasad out of the blue
03:36.55 Twingy you wanna see a good keynote, check out bruce sterlings from siggraph '04
03:36.58 prasad along with other random topics
03:37.08 Twingy it'll keep you thinking long after you're done watching it
03:37.09 prasad hey nintendo's keynote was excellent
03:37.35 prasad they'll support all *NES games AND all SEGA saturn games
03:37.41 prasad er the revolution will
03:38.05 Twingy I wonder if I'll ever play video games again
03:38.17 Twingy you know I haven't played one in over a year?
03:38.20 prasad m$ has already lost the war
03:38.24 prasad it's nintendo vs sony
03:38.34 Twingy actually, I played 10 minutes of tux racer this year
03:38.41 prasad didnt u play gta recently
03:38.53 Twingy it's still sitting on the floor
03:38.58 prasad oh yea.. nvidia's "advanced rendering effects" lecture was such BS
03:39.03 Twingy I played that for 30 minutes at a friends house
03:39.14 prasad it turned out to be a sales pitch for the havok fx physics engine
03:39.15 Twingy heh
03:39.18 prasad that runs on the nvidia gpu
03:39.21 prasad sorta cool
03:39.28 prasad but come on..
03:39.33 Twingy I'm sooooooooo over tooty fruity graphics tricks no matter how much math they try to soil it with
03:39.42 prasad and i was one # away from getting that 7800gt in the raffele
03:39.45 prasad :o
03:39.59 prasad im with u
03:40.07 prasad that's why i want rt hardware
03:40.17 Twingy that's for the quasi-mathematicians
03:40.30 prasad ?
03:40.41 Twingy I'm more interested in engineering the appropriate hardware to solve my problems
03:41.02 prasad im trying to do the same thing with hardware
03:41.08 Twingy (assuming it cannot be done in a respectable manner on a general purpose cpu)
03:41.18 prasad arent u bandwidth limited?
03:41.25 prasad what's the peak fps
03:41.29 prasad for stryker
03:41.44 Twingy if siggraph spent all the man hours on quantum computing rather than graphics tricks, we'd be in a different era
03:41.56 Twingy 1 node or cluster?
03:42.01 prasad cluster
03:42.11 Twingy oh, I can push 25 fps on the new cluster I think
03:42.14 prasad and what's the performance of 4 nodes vs 6 vs 8
03:42.20 Twingy with alexis's that's about 150 fps
03:42.32 prasad 25 bandwidth limited or are u not saturating the gig e?
03:42.37 Twingy it's 90% linear
03:42.48 Twingy I'm not even close to saturdation
03:42.56 prasad ack
03:43.02 prasad i thought u were
03:43.03 prasad hmph
03:43.05 Twingy nope
03:43.11 Twingy everything is compressed
03:43.23 prasad zlib?
03:43.24 Twingy even uncompressed it'd take like 32 nodes to get close
03:43.26 Twingy yes
03:43.30 Twingy it's lame, but it works
03:43.32 prasad whats the compression overhead
03:43.38 Twingy minimal
03:43.38 Twingy like 10%
03:43.43 prasad k
03:44.04 Twingy wait till you see alexis's stuff
03:44.16 Twingy as much as a difference I made between adrt and brl-cad
03:44.20 prasad ive been asking for a demo since forever
03:44.22 Twingy there will be between adrt and alexis's stuff
03:44.35 Twingy I'm not at liberty to hand one out
03:45.37 prasad the only way i can get the ps3 dev kit is if i pose as a middleware person who can guarantee an RT api that runs on cell
03:46.12 prasad good performance on 4 spus will be ideal
03:46.20 Twingy I might be able to help you out
03:46.28 Twingy talk to me next week
03:46.33 prasad all it needs is to maintain 30fps
03:46.37 prasad hdmi standard
03:46.43 Twingy sure, but talk to me next week
03:46.47 prasad k
03:47.01 prasad ill hold off on talking to the sony rep till then
03:47.36 Twingy I'd say there's a 70% chance we could get it based on new things happening
03:47.49 prasad new things where
03:48.06 Twingy in land of arl from high above
03:48.11 prasad i see
03:49.06 Twingy you could potentially work with alexis on this
03:49.31 prasad true
03:49.46 Twingy he is your best resource
03:49.54 prasad but how do i get the go ahead from management
03:50.07 prasad unless u mean circumvent arl altogether
03:50.10 Twingy that's not an irc conversation
03:50.13 Twingy no, it's legit
03:50.19 prasad oh interesting
03:50.22 prasad k we'll talk later
03:50.43 Twingy yea
03:51.13 Twingy if I were to guess, it'd be 4 - 8 months before you got it
03:51.56 prasad heh
03:53.19 prasad now selling this api will be pretty hard as a primary renderer
03:53.36 Twingy do you know how to check your priv msgs?
03:53.40 prasad completely discarding the rsx will be very bad
03:53.56 prasad did u pm the wrong nick?
03:54.02 pra5ad-sj pm me
03:54.28 Twingy are you registered with nick serv?
03:54.35 pra5ad-sj gah
03:54.57 pra5ad-sj u on aim?
03:55.01 Twingy yes
04:06.36 brlcad bruce sterling was awesome at siggraph 2004, .. best .. keynote .. ever
04:07.25 brlcad wait.. that's not who I'm thinking of :)
04:07.42 Twingy it certainly wasn't lucas
04:07.54 pra5ad-sj got a video?
04:08.01 brlcad that's the worst in a long time
04:08.15 pra5ad-sj went to the new m$ flight sim terrain gen lecture
04:08.15 Twingy http://www.boingboing.net/images/blobjects.htm
04:08.18 Twingy ^-- there
04:08.18 pra5ad-sj very interesting stuff
04:08.18 brlcad he just didn't give a damn to be there.. utterly boring to listen to
04:08.29 pra5ad-sj procedural textures in software
04:09.05 brlcad the guy i'm thinking of wasn't keynote
04:09.21 brlcad maybe the lifetime achievement award
04:09.31 brlcad talked about his work on sketch
04:09.57 brlcad 8kb ram to work in for code and graphics
04:10.01 brlcad or somesuch
04:11.33 brlcad san diego iirc
04:18.16 Twingy <PROTECTED>
04:19.34 brlcad java? :)
04:20.00 Twingy hmm :)
04:20.05 brlcad apple!
04:20.34 pra5ad-sj oh yea
04:20.44 pra5ad-sj i talked to david carmein today
04:20.47 pra5ad-sj met him up at lunch
04:21.02 pra5ad-sj ceo of VSD inc (aka omni directional treadmill)
04:21.17 pra5ad-sj interesting chap
04:21.21 pra5ad-sj got good ideas
04:21.29 pra5ad-sj lacks funding
04:21.47 brlcad that device can't be cheap
04:21.49 pra5ad-sj apparently the hamster ball treadmill idea was his (he is cited in their patent)
04:22.57 brlcad you should tell him that he should demo the platform with someone playing bzflag
04:23.08 brlcad or counterstrike or something
04:23.10 pra5ad-sj heh hred wants a system w/o harness but the odt needs one for full immersion
04:23.29 pra5ad-sj well hred is using some game engine coupled with the odt
04:23.33 pra5ad-sj so he says
04:23.42 pra5ad-sj perhaps there is a game tied into the system
04:23.53 pra5ad-sj can find out when we go on the field trip
04:24.06 brlcad mm.. bzflag compiled on the spot
04:27.49 pra5ad-sj The following items were included in this shipment:
04:27.50 pra5ad-sj ---------------------------------------------------------------------
04:27.50 pra5ad-sj Qty Item Price Shipped Subtotal
04:27.50 pra5ad-sj ---------------------------------------------------------------------
04:27.50 pra5ad-sj <PROTECTED>
04:27.55 pra5ad-sj ARRRRR!
04:28.13 pra5ad-sj i swear it didn't cost that much when i bought it
04:28.40 brlcad that's almost a new computer
04:28.55 pra5ad-sj i know =(
04:29.13 pra5ad-sj nintendo's brain game is fuckin brilliant
04:29.17 pra5ad-sj i want to get a DS just for that
04:29.32 pra5ad-sj treadmill for ur brain
04:29.33 pra5ad-sj and it works
04:29.45 pra5ad-sj they performed an experiement on stage at the keynote
04:30.00 pra5ad-sj convinced me ^_^
04:32.06 pra5ad-sj so i did save a little.. normal price is $520
04:33.28 brlcad brain game?
04:33.40 pra5ad-sj yea
04:33.41 brlcad trying to smarten up the dulled massives
04:33.46 pra5ad-sj the crazy japanese
04:33.57 pra5ad-sj it's the fastest selling game in japan
04:34.00 brlcad tired of selling to idiots
04:34.07 pra5ad-sj and it only has math puzzles
04:34.39 pra5ad-sj nintendo gave out free copies to everyone at the keynote
04:34.54 brlcad now, if they could just combine the hamster treadmill thing with the brain game thing.. two problems would be taken care of
04:34.59 pra5ad-sj i couldnt leave my seat cos will wright was up next and i didnt want to get back in that damn long line
04:35.10 pra5ad-sj heh
04:35.41 pra5ad-sj just wear a suit with million electrodes that produce eletric shocks
05:31.54 Twingy only took 90 minutes too
05:41.50 pra5ad-sj sketch?
05:42.23 brlcad Twingy: for isst?
05:42.24 Twingy yea, they let you talk for 15 minutes about something that's not beefy enough for a paper
05:42.30 Twingy cnc milling
05:42.34 brlcad heh
05:42.53 Twingy there's 118 submitted so far
05:42.57 brlcad eep
05:43.01 Twingy typically they only pick about 50
05:43.22 Twingy so, I think I got atleast a 50% chance
05:43.33 Twingy depends on who else does related stuff
05:43.55 Twingy if they get one or two 3d printer guys
05:44.02 pra5ad-sj heh
05:44.06 Twingy then it could be quite likely
05:44.39 Twingy either way I can try the milling again next year
05:45.58 pra5ad-sj tomorrow is ps3/cell day
05:46.13 pra5ad-sj waking up early to get a good seat
05:46.26 pra5ad-sj way too many ppl today
05:46.35 pra5ad-sj all lectures were overflowing
05:47.54 Twingy sounds alot like siggraph
05:48.05 Twingy minus the hangover
12:18.00 *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
19:08.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: define USE_TIME_H to quell implicit declaration warnings of time()
19:36.46 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (65 files in 6 dirs): quell compiler warnings
19:49.49 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (21 files): quell compiler warnings, missing header
19:54.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bitv.c: argument is incompatible with corresponding format string conversion, go with %lx (might still need a cast on the value now for 32-bit systems), add missing stdlib.h header
19:59.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: argument is incompatible with corresponding format string conversion, quell warnings by using long format specifiers instead
20:02.06 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (cmdhist.c ispar.c): quell compiler warning
21:50.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: quell some intel compiler warnings
22:08.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (cmdhist.c parse.c printb.c units.c vls.c): quell intel 9 compiler on altix warnings
22:18.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: final touches, missing header
22:19.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: ack, missing the %s for a slew of printfings, quell intel compiler warnings
22:33.40 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: odd arguments that don't have print specifiers.. possible bug that should get looked into for the tclget serialization.
23:22.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (20 files): lots of intel 9 for altix compiler warning quellings
23:31.33 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_example.c: quell more intel 9 compiler warnings, reorder interpolate_data() to avoid decl
23:45.49 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell intel 9 on altix compiler warnings
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060325

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060325

00:04.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c fbserv_obj.c if_ogl.c tcl.c): quell intel on altix compiler warnings
00:29.41 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
00:29.47 pra5ad-sj alrighty
00:29.56 pra5ad-sj went to an ibm talk on the cell
00:30.16 pra5ad-sj apparently they have a strategic partnership with mercury
00:30.32 pra5ad-sj interesting stuff nonetheless
00:30.55 pra5ad-sj 16 cloth simulations running on 2 cells in smp
00:31.22 pra5ad-sj cell blade will cost around $50k
00:31.59 pra5ad-sj will be dual cpu
00:39.57 pra5ad-sj oh and saw a raycasting demo of mt. rainier(sp?)
00:40.06 pra5ad-sj not bad
00:40.23 pra5ad-sj best demo was ATI's parallax occlusion map demo
00:40.33 pra5ad-sj fixes issues related to normal maps
00:40.38 pra5ad-sj damn well id say
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15:46.07 *** join/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
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19:13.48 *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
20:51.52 archivist such a delightfull boy is Erik !
20:55.23 ``Erik and a sick one, to boot.
20:56.29 archivist I would say have a stiff drink but I bet youve done that allready
20:59.49 ``Erik oddly enough, I think I've had a total of 3 drinks the last week, I doubt they'd aid in my getting over this flu
21:00.11 ``Erik lots of tea with honey and lemon juice... drank a freakin' pint of lemon juice this week o.O
21:02.14 archivist just one dose of minor snots this winter
21:35.10 Twingy why don't you just visit the doctor and get some antibiotics?
21:35.29 Twingy makes alot more sense than coming to work sick every day
21:35.42 Twingy some amoxacillian should fix you up
21:36.17 Twingy *amoxicillin
21:36.54 Twingy being sick for more than 48 days is silly
21:36.58 Twingy err 48 hours
21:37.17 Twingy especially when you can correct the situation for a mere $25
21:44.45 archivist send a vet
21:52.49 Twingy back to flooring
23:37.33 ``Erik 2 miles is vast?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060326

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060326

00:17.43 *** part/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
02:31.11 *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-71-248-83-186.bltmmd.east.verizon.net)
03:13.17 Twingy good movie
03:53.31 brlcad worth seeing?
03:53.53 Twingy indeed
03:53.56 brlcad rather.. worth paying $15 to see in theater
03:54.06 brlcad mandatory popcorn and all
03:54.15 brlcad or just worth seeing eventually
03:56.03 Twingy I brought two smores granolla bars and a soda
03:56.13 Twingy with torrenting atleast
03:56.16 Twingy *worth
03:56.20 brlcad 33heh
04:10.08 Twingy sean
04:10.12 Twingy where is vgrs
04:10.23 Twingy XXX times faster?
04:10.38 Twingy These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 12734 times
04:10.38 Twingy faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780
04:10.38 Twingy running 4.3 BSD named VGR.
04:10.47 Twingy I just got that
04:23.12 brlcad yes?
04:23.33 Twingy you got 11,600
04:23.34 brlcad on the machine "VGR", the results for each of those tests == 1
04:23.45 Twingy I got 12,700
04:23.56 brlcad so 12700 VGRS is X times faster
04:24.01 Twingy yes
04:24.05 Twingy but icc is 15,000 still
04:24.09 Twingy let me see if I can go higher
04:24.49 brlcad right, without going deep into options for either, icc was considerably out performing
04:25.16 brlcad e.g. didn't use the -march flag, that would have helped some
04:25.28 brlcad or -ffast-math
04:25.40 brlcad but then icc also hasd similar options 
04:26.00 brlcad what really steals it is that multi-pass
05:21.23 Twingy 12,836
05:28.23 Twingy last test for tonight :)
05:28.32 Twingy maybe I can sqeak out 13,000
05:32.33 brlcad sounds about right
05:32.52 Twingy I should push adrt through it again
05:32.55 brlcad i'd expect it possible to squeak 1-3k out of both with more fine tuning
05:33.00 Twingy everytime I have used it in the past gcc was faster
05:33.06 brlcad you should try adrt with the multi-pass
05:33.11 Twingy I even got the pathscale guys to formally admit gcc was faster
05:39.08 brlcad when I first tested on the pre-altix, the gap was about 50%-60% with the same options iirc
05:39.42 brlcad so nice to see that the gap is decreasing
05:41.11 Maloeran Ahah Justin, gcc defeated pathscale then? :) Neat
05:41.26 Twingy there's a bug in their database as a result of my ray-tracer
05:41.36 Twingy if I dig up old emails I have the title
05:41.38 Twingy I think
05:41.47 Twingy if something is faster, they report as bug
05:41.50 Maloeran GCC is fairly horrible for Opteron optimisation, in comparison to what you can get from assembly
05:42.03 Maloeran Eh, nice
05:42.06 Twingy the funny thing is I was testing on opterons
05:42.13 Twingy 2ghz quad opteron
05:42.21 Maloeran Sure, that's what Pathscale is designed for
05:42.29 Twingy at siggraph 2004
05:44.34 Maloeran I maintain that assembly is seriously under-estimated :), I seem to be the only one crazy enough to code paths optimized for archs or chips
05:49.00 Twingy do you have a script you run to apply the mods post gcc compile?
05:50.02 Maloeran No, it's all hand written
05:50.09 Twingy so everytime you compile
05:50.14 Twingy you have to open up file with editor
05:50.16 Twingy and type it in?
05:50.20 Twingy seems kind of laborious
05:50.22 Maloeran Though, there are some easy changes to be made to GCC's output to increase performance on amd64
05:50.55 Maloeran Somewhat, it doesn't take too long when you have the C version next to it as reference
05:51.17 Twingy seems like a little sed scripts could be useful
05:51.24 Twingy to just go patchit.sh
05:51.26 Maloeran It's a hand written .S file, I don't change anything
05:51.26 Twingy everytime you compile
05:51.35 Maloeran gcc foo.S -o foo.o
05:51.39 Twingy so all assmembly lives in own file
05:51.47 Maloeran A couple files, but yes
05:51.53 Twingy I thought you were taking gcc's output
05:51.56 Twingy everytime you compile
05:52.02 Twingy and putting it in from scratch
05:52.13 Maloeran Eh no, working from gcc's output wouldn't lead to the best results
05:52.22 Twingy gotcha
06:25.37 *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
06:25.37 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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09:57.13 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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22:55.01 Twingy yep, that's a dirty job
22:56.42 Twingy living room is oficially classified as DMZ now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060327

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060327

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02:41.02 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/
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07:02.51 brlcad CIA is ill this evening
07:03.03 brlcad navi is down
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10:20.49 archivist I expected to see the milling machine in the living room
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16:45.34 pra5ad-werk brlcad: at home?
16:45.42 brlcad yes
16:45.47 pra5ad-werk dammit
16:45.55 pra5ad-werk where's jason
16:46.23 brlcad in mexico all weekend
16:46.37 brlcad hopefully still hung over
16:46.44 pra5ad-werk oh
16:46.50 pra5ad-werk u in tomorrow?
16:48.33 brlcad possibly
16:48.52 brlcad i'm always in somewhere
16:49.46 pra5ad-werk ew
16:49.52 pra5ad-werk too much info
16:49.54 pra5ad-werk =)
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17:56.55 ``Erik heh
17:57.33 ``Erik you shoulda came in today, sean, I was looking for someone to pawn racking a machine off on
18:00.31 tegtmeye sean, you know gcc can do profiling opts like the intel compiler can right?
18:13.27 learner yeah, would love to see the results
18:16.08 learner i did mention that was without going into any great length on either compiler, add -O3 to each and what are the results, add no options, what are the results, etc
18:17.12 learner the multi-pass gcc would be nice to see, though I would be still be incredibly surprised if it closes the gap fully
18:19.53 brlcad ``Erik: aww, darn.. and I missed that? shucks
19:06.37 Maloeran Just -O3 is a very poor benchmark with GCC, especially on AMD chips...
19:33.32 learner give a list of ia-64 flags that should be optimal, and I'll give it a whirl
19:33.57 learner fast-math, mtune, expensive-opts, not much different
19:34.51 learner i.e. this is an itanium2, an altix
19:39.27 learner i've gone through more than a dozen compiles now, and in each case the intel compiler is out-performing with the exception of specifying no optimization options gcc takes it
19:40.38 learner which really just isn't so surprising. intel compiler only supports a couple platforms, you'd hope that they'd do a decent job
19:43.42 Maloeran Ah yes, I didn't know the arch you were benchmarking, GCC's optimisation for IA-64 isn't anywhere near Intel's
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20:16.21 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
20:16.23 ``Erik gheh
20:18.01 tegtmeye we where talking today, you know that -fast-math turns off ieee math right?
20:32.13 brlcad yep
20:32.48 brlcad brl-cad doesn't rely on ieee floating point
20:36.04 brlcad the benchmark test the actual results of the computations to ensure that they are within an accepted level of deviation (zero off-by-many pixel errors)
20:36.20 brlcad if they don't match up, the benchmark will fail
21:03.49 ``Erik make
21:03.50 ``Erik ghah
21:08.26 brlcad make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
21:10.37 ``Erik gmake -j99999999
21:11.28 brlcad gmake: command not found
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060328

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060328

00:08.49 ``Erik NARF!
00:13.00 tegtmeye eh! which one of our machines has the most memory?
00:13.21 tegtmeye rack has 8 and I jsut killed it...
00:18.38 ``Erik um, the altix has like 24g
00:19.20 tegtmeye I don't think I have an account on wopr
00:19.31 tegtmeye can you give me one from home?
00:19.35 ``Erik no
00:19.37 brlcad not really public conversation material
00:19.39 ``Erik it's not mine
00:19.46 ``Erik and we dont' say actual machine names in public
00:19.53 tegtmeye gotcha
00:20.35 ``Erik the second most I can think of off the top of my head is the amd64 minicluster with 8g/node
00:21.08 tegtmeye yea, jsut killed one with 8
00:21.12 tegtmeye stupid perl
00:21.17 brlcad heh
00:21.18 ``Erik didja cook up much swap on it?
00:21.19 brlcad bad regex
00:21.21 ``Erik heh, perl sucks :D
00:21.56 brlcad if it wasn't a regex, I don't want to know how you ran through that much memory
00:22.12 tegtmeye graph stuff
00:22.17 ``Erik perl is as perl does? :)
00:22.26 brlcad if it was, you should be able to cut that down with different expressions
00:22.46 brlcad ahm.. storing sparse matrices in hash tables? :)
00:22.48 tegtmeye no regex at all
00:23.08 tegtmeye no
00:23.14 tegtmeye adjacency lists
00:23.17 tegtmeye sp
00:24.16 brlcad perl isn't "horrible" on memory usage generally speaking.. not as bad as some other languages at least; sure you're not doing something that's causing some explosive allocation?
00:24.18 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Node 0 Normal: 0*4kB 0*8kB 1*16kB 0*32kB 1*64kB 1*128kB 1*256kB 1*51
00:24.21 tegtmeye 2kB 1*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 2000kB
00:24.24 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Node 0 HighMem: empty
00:24.26 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Swap cache: add 516944, delete 516944, find 255/1278, race 0+0
00:24.30 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Free swap: 0kB
00:24.32 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 2097150 pages of RAM
00:24.35 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 249625 reserved pages
00:24.37 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 6527 pages shared
00:24.40 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 0 pages swap cached
00:24.42 tegtmeye Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Out of Memory: Killed process 31308 (bash).
00:24.55 tegtmeye yea, doing static analysis on doxygen...
00:25.00 tegtmeye it has like 20k functions
00:25.21 ``Erik erm, y'know, we're only allowed to use those computers for official work related business o.O
00:25.26 ``Erik :)
00:25.50 brlcad on doxygen??
00:26.21 brlcad it's a document tool, i could care less how poorly written it is :)
00:26.28 brlcad but then that's just me
00:26.47 ``Erik doesn't it use crap from like kde or qt?
00:27.00 brlcad not last I payed attention
00:27.08 brlcad at least not required
00:48.52 ``Erik ahhh O.o
00:50.00 pra5ad sonofa.. oblivion is xp only too
00:50.04 pra5ad this is ridiculous
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03:24.35 brlcad grr
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03:25.34 brlcad hrmph
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03:26.55 brlcad sheesh
03:29.49 *** mode/#brlcad [-b pra5ad*!*@*] by brlcad
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03:33.36 pra5ad ok so im trying to use tinyxml for the c++ gl test
03:33.49 pra5ad its makefile only produces obj files
03:34.00 pra5ad how do i incorporate that into my gnu build system?
03:34.05 pra5ad or whats the best way
03:36.00 brlcad who would only make .o files
03:36.36 brlcad you can half-ass it and just add them to the LIBS or LDFLAGS
03:36.45 pra5ad *** i have a 15% gdc discount at www.akpeters.com (till 4/30/06) ... let me know if u are planning to get some books from that site
03:36.47 brlcad or convert the build to a gbs one
03:37.33 pra5ad hm
03:38.59 brlcad actually yeah, http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=2175
03:43.01 pra5ad since i'm not selling this gl test prog, i can technically rip out the src (3 cpp files) and put em under my build, right?
03:43.10 brlcad mm.. http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=1772
03:43.13 pra5ad iirc its under gpl
03:43.56 pra5ad dude, email me the list of books
03:44.11 pra5ad im sorta curious about em too
03:49.23 brlcad only other one maybe, http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=0903
03:52.29 brlcad sent
04:04.48 Twingy unf
04:04.54 Twingy soooo many boards
04:21.45 Maloeran Eh, coerced ``Erik into giving a hand yet?
04:28.36 Twingy he's been sick for like 10 days?
04:28.44 Twingy and refuses to get antibiotics
04:32.36 Maloeran Ouch, so he's still sick...
04:33.01 Twingy he should be using sick days :)
04:33.14 Twingy with all the sick people I've been around at work
04:33.20 Twingy you'd think I'd be on my death bed
04:33.53 pra5ad gym is my antibiotic
04:34.21 Maloeran Sure, regular exercise and a good cardiovascular system greatly reinforces the immunity system
04:34.48 Maloeran I haven't been sick for... many years either
04:35.59 pra5ad so when do i get to see ur raytracer?
04:36.23 Maloeran Hrm, what about at Siggraph? :)
04:36.35 Maloeran I should have dynamic geometry support nicely completed by then
04:36.42 pra5ad oh yea? nice
04:37.04 pra5ad what are u using as the spatial structure? kinetic octree?
04:37.13 Maloeran Not a known technique
04:37.18 pra5ad ohh
04:37.20 pra5ad heh =)
04:37.21 Maloeran The ray-triangle intersection test is a new technique too
04:38.38 Maloeran pra5ad, I vaguely understood you were interested by low-level hardware, have you played with FPGAs?
04:39.10 pra5ad sure have
04:39.14 brlcad you're presenting a paper at siggraph?
04:39.16 pra5ad xilinx mostly
04:39.33 pra5ad done a little abel and verliog
04:40.31 brlcad or going to demo it at the brl-cad bof? :)
04:40.46 Twingy no no
04:40.52 Twingy the Justin is your God bof
04:40.58 Twingy :}
04:41.03 brlcad we need better compute power this year
04:41.10 Twingy I got that covered
04:41.17 brlcad heh
04:41.28 Twingy mal, I'll have a dual cpu dual core 2ghz opteron there for yah
04:41.30 brlcad should still.. press for new equipment by then
04:42.05 brlcad hopefully it'll arive in time
04:42.13 Twingy the craptops?
04:42.14 brlcad i needs it, i vants it
04:42.35 pra5ad help me push for a dual cell blade
04:42.38 pra5ad only $50k
04:42.39 pra5ad =)
04:43.32 Twingy heh, in that case let me just cash out my trust fund
04:58.29 pra5ad http://www.flickr.com/photos/ps3/117907118/
04:58.46 pra5ad warhawk on ps3; clouds rendered using raycasting
04:58.50 pra5ad on a single spu
05:07.19 Maloeran Sorry about that, phone call from friend lawyer. So pra5ad, ever pondered about putting together ray-tracing hardware? :}
05:08.38 pra5ad my interest has peaked recently
05:09.00 pra5ad would be a fun project :)
05:09.26 Maloeran For my part, I am really interested. I'm the kind of guy who write assembly for any common archs and stomp compilers, but I never went below that
05:10.09 Maloeran As it was for rasterization many years ago, specialized hardware will be the key for ray-tracing
05:10.21 pra5ad i agree
05:11.09 pra5ad wonder if xilinx is selling a pci-x fpga prototyping board
05:12.19 Maloeran This sure would be appropriate, such hardware would require pci-x's bandwidth
05:13.09 Maloeran What emulation software do you use or would recommend?
05:13.10 pra5ad personally id like to try out two things: the pci-x path or build it against cell
05:13.35 pra5ad heh i cheated
05:13.40 pra5ad xilinx's own tools
05:13.55 pra5ad i dont believe they have any for nix/osx
05:14.10 pra5ad then again this was 3 yrs ago
05:14.21 Maloeran Mmhm, I see
05:14.46 pra5ad the one we used in 2k4 was pretty powerful imo
05:14.54 pra5ad full system simulation
05:15.04 pra5ad and our schematic was pretty complex
05:15.15 pra5ad twas a DLA
05:15.39 pra5ad iirc it allowed us to create components and tie em together; building blocks
05:15.45 pra5ad and simulate it that way
05:16.12 pra5ad and i do believe it cost around the order of $200
05:16.35 pra5ad (project budget was somewhere around that)
05:16.39 Maloeran Interesting. What software would you recommend for an initiation into the path that would lead to efficient ray-tracing hardware many years from now?
05:17.54 Maloeran Most preferabily nix software... :)
05:17.59 Maloeran preferably, even
05:18.07 pra5ad i really shouldnt have any say in this, but id stick with the hardware vendor tools
05:18.12 pra5ad ah.. that i dont know
05:18.23 pra5ad never really did look into nix stuff
05:18.52 pra5ad i believe altera's basic dev kits run about $150-200
05:19.03 pra5ad includes vhdl compilers
05:19.05 pra5ad iirc
05:20.16 Maloeran I see, thanks for the tip
05:22.29 pra5ad ah yea, we used the spartan 3E's
05:24.14 pra5ad ohh interesting
05:24.22 pra5ad logic building tools
05:24.23 pra5ad System Requirements
05:24.23 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
05:24.23 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
05:24.23 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
05:24.29 pra5ad might wanna try that
05:25.05 Maloeran Nice, that seems more convenient
05:25.13 pra5ad http://www.xilinx.com/ise/logic_design_prod/foundation.htm
05:25.20 pra5ad evaluation cd
05:25.24 pra5ad heh full version is 2.5k
05:26.41 Maloeran Ouch. I really want to explore this avenue soon, after I'm done with the software side
05:28.27 pra5ad http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/designResources/ip_product_details.jsp?key=HW-V4-ML455&sGlobalNavPick=PRODUCTS&sSecondaryNavPick=BOARDS
05:28.32 pra5ad pci-x dev kit
05:28.38 pra5ad for virtex-4s
05:28.46 pra5ad 1.2k
05:30.55 pra5ad heh now i want to get a dev kit
05:30.58 Maloeran Eh, I think I can be satisfied with software emulation for the moment, to gain some experience with this strange new world
05:31.44 pra5ad it's really not that hard
05:31.52 pra5ad id say it's easier than asm
05:31.54 pra5ad much easier
05:33.29 pra5ad so i get to learn about this new raytracing algorithm in august eh?
05:34.17 Maloeran I'm afraid it's unlikely that you will learn more than what level of performance it reaches... :)
05:36.55 pra5ad collaboration? =)
05:38.52 Maloeran That might be an option, I'm really unsure of how things will unfold at the moment
05:39.15 pra5ad ah, ok
06:01.33 Twingy damn I'm getting close to producing working g-code
06:16.53 Twingy bed time
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15:41.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh:
15:41.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Added --enable-everything to the configure line
15:41.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Printing old and new version numbers for confirmation
15:46.56 docelic hi folks.. any of sourceforge project owners here ?
15:47.20 docelic s/owners/brlcad admins/
15:47.39 docelic haha good :)
15:48.07 ``Erik o.O
15:49.42 docelic I am working on a large project too, and we are thinking of opening a sourceforge project.. but if I remember, brlcad was specially announced on sf.net frontpage, so maybe such a deal could be made with us as well
15:50.04 docelic I'd like to find out the people I could talk to about such possibility
15:53.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: Now does all the regression tests even if one fails
15:56.17 ``Erik I don't think anything special was done for that... we had a cvs repo that we wanted imported
15:57.14 ``Erik so brlcad over there *point* talked to them and gave them a tarball of goop, as well as sending a blurb to slashdot... I d'no if he did anything special for sf news, or if they just did it themselves
19:01.51 brlcad docelic: yes
19:02.25 docelic hi brlcad
19:02.55 brlcad sf.net picks up news for their main page at their discretion based on when you post news to your project :)
19:03.55 docelic so you did not make any special arrangements to have it appear there? I might be wrong, but I remember them having the 1:1 picture of your logo on the main site for a week
19:04.17 brlcad really?
19:04.22 brlcad i never knew that
19:05.10 brlcad so yeah.. no special arrangements other than being a high-profile popular newsworthy project ;)
19:06.17 docelic interesting..
19:08.35 brlcad likewise
19:08.54 brlcad i could just be forgetting, but I didn't know about the sf.net news
19:27.20 brlcad time to get out the hose
20:02.48 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Set the default button for the preferences dialog.
20:12.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh:
20:12.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Fixed bug where master_prep.sh was being run multiple times and
20:12.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: alternating between release numbers. Now gets consistent release
20:12.22 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: number from README file
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060329

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060329

03:23.53 pra5ad quiet..
03:24.24 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net)
03:49.46 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_07.jpg
03:52.03 pra5ad u are not making a flipbook of the construction?
03:52.14 Twingy I'm taking a video
03:52.25 Twingy it's quite amusing
03:52.49 pra5ad cue benny hill music
03:53.24 Twingy I wish siggraph were here already
03:54.08 pra5ad me too
03:54.21 pra5ad i need to chain conferences together
03:55.31 pra5ad by the time u are done, it'll be 2 yrs since buying and time to sell
03:56.07 Twingy I'll have this place for 5 years
03:56.49 Twingy I will list for sale on my 30th birthday
03:56.58 Twingy by then truck will be paid off
03:57.47 Twingy then I can have my dilbert home built ^_^
03:58.44 Twingy land will be $50k - $100k, construction could be $350k - $500k
04:00.29 pra5ad where abouts?
04:00.46 Twingy I would probably have it built in PA or cecil county area
04:01.34 Twingy I have few memories from 1982
04:01.48 Twingy we moved to NJ in fall '82
04:03.39 Twingy I could easily spend 50 years in that dilbert house
04:03.50 Twingy it's gorgeous
07:01.09 *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:01.09 *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
17:43.23 ``Erik damnit, wrong part of the world to see the eclipse today :(
17:43.28 ``Erik http://eclipse.astronomie.info/sofi/activemaps.html is neat
17:53.50 archivist slight dimming here but obscured by clouds anyway
18:01.20 *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387E3F1.versanet.de)
20:02.55 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add support for the intel compiler on altix, i.e. for compiling with icc on ia64.. bu_byteoffset so needs to be dynamically detected by configure or even at run-time.
20:38.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: provide an example use
22:27.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c:
22:27.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Since we have moved to calling bu_malloc instead of malloc, we have to be
22:27.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: careful not to acquire BU_SEM_SYSCALL prior to calling bu_malloc (since it
22:27.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: tries to acquire that semaphore, and the program would hang forever).
22:27.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Of course, it would be better not to overload BU_SEM_SYSCALL in this
22:27.27 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: instance, but to allocate an application semaphore. That is a more sweeping
22:27.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: change for later.
23:57.42 *** join/#brlcad cad412 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060330

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060330

00:01.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c:
00:01.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: When complaining about not getting an MGED database, we now accurately report
00:01.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: the name of the program (from argv[0]) being run, rather than pretending that
00:01.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: all rtuif programs are called "rt".
00:04.14 *** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:04.35 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c fbserv_obj.c if_4d.c tcl.c):
00:04.35 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: revert the libbu memory management changes to libpkg just to be safe. if
00:04.35 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: someone happens to call bu_semaphore_acquire on a BU_SEM_SYSCALL semaphore, the
00:04.35 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: call will block since libbu utilizes that semaphore internally (and it's
00:04.36 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: expected that callers know this..).
00:07.58 cad665 Hello, I am new to BRL-CAD. Just got current from CVS and noticed the visual studio projects
00:08.37 cad665 I have made a few tweeks to get it most of the executables, but not all working. What is the status of this?
00:09.53 cad665 I was looking to use mged, but it is looking for 'gui'
00:23.41 *** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:28.18 brlcad cad665: there are some manual installation steps
00:28.31 brlcad i'm not sure if they've been well documented yet
00:28.47 brlcad but basically you have to install the tclscripts and the binaries that you build before mged will work
00:29.28 brlcad mged uses a vast quantity of external plugin-style resources that it tries to find, and without doing this, you get the gui error or a few others
00:38.53 cad665 thanks
00:39.17 cad665 I noticed that I needed to move iwidgets.tcl. I will look around the makefiles
00:39.39 brlcad most of the src/tclscripts directory as well
00:39.54 brlcad that's the big one, that's where 'gui' lives for example
00:40.13 brlcad the status is that it's about ready to ship out now
00:40.27 brlcad but the automatic-build under windows certainly needs more work
00:40.46 brlcad there has just not been too many windows developers interested in getting involved to date yet
00:44.27 cad665 I have done some porting from *NIX to Win32, but it can be quite an undertaking to port an application this size
00:44.52 brlcad the porting is pretty much done
00:44.58 brlcad it's mostly polish that's remaining
00:45.08 brlcad so that you click, click and have an install, etc
00:45.14 cad665 I may be able to help
00:45.33 brlcad the nix side is pretty turnkey at this point
00:46.01 cad665 I have been working on the FEA application CalculiX, doing that port and built an installer and packaged the HTML help into CHM, etc...
00:46.05 brlcad though of few of the packaging systems are still coming on-line, like debian
00:49.25 brlcad at this point, there are three approaches to getting a windows build -- there are two studio projects (one vc6, another vc7) or building through mingw/cygwin
00:49.46 brlcad the vc6 builds all of the libraries and does an even better automated job than the vc7 project
00:50.08 brlcad the vc7 project, though, builds about a 1/4th of the most useful binaries as well
00:52.46 *** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:53.32 Twingy anyone interesting in laying hardwood? :)
00:53.36 Twingy *ed
00:54.02 brlcad you probably wouldn't appreciate my technique
00:54.07 Twingy heh
00:54.13 brlcad involves a nail gun and some glue
00:54.22 Twingy oh
00:54.24 Maloeran Ahah
00:54.26 Twingy I've been using scotch tape, hrm
00:54.45 brlcad doesn't involve wood
00:54.56 Twingy ah, so you found a loop hole
00:55.18 Twingy anti time space wood nailer doodad
00:55.38 Maloeran Sure I'm interested to help, you pay the transportation, right? :)
00:55.56 Twingy I'll pay you in an mp3 player built by the elbonians
00:56.04 brlcad heh
00:56.16 brlcad he'll give you his ipod.. :)
00:56.18 Twingy ...it's a good deal
00:56.45 brlcad that poor poor defenseless ipod..
00:57.56 Twingy it's not engineered to my standards
00:58.34 Twingy I should be able to drive my car over it without so much as a scratch
00:58.51 Twingy military grade man, military grade
01:01.05 Maloeran 642km from Montreal to Baltimore, 8-12 days of bicycle, selling an ipod for food on the way won't be enough
01:01.53 Twingy I doubt somone would give you food for it :)
01:02.36 Maloeran :) Will you be completing the basement next, or you already passed that way?
01:02.56 Twingy I will probably take a break after the hardwood floor
01:03.02 Twingy rest for a month
01:03.13 Maloeran Right, sounds reasonable
01:03.16 brlcad that would be a sweet bicycle ride
01:03.32 Twingy 6 weeks on the ceramic floor, 4 weeks on finishing the office, and 2 weeks on the hardwood floor drains you
01:04.29 Twingy another 4.5 years and I can sell this place and get my dilbert house constructed
01:06.32 Maloeran That's ambitious, brlcad :), I rarely find people willing to join to travel a fraction of that on bicycle... or were you being sarcastic?
01:08.43 brlcad no, being serious
01:09.11 Maloeran Very nice, I wouldn't mind joining
01:09.20 brlcad it would take about two-three weeks I imagine
01:09.39 brlcad i believe lance does it every year in two with a group
01:10.29 Maloeran It depends if you actually want to stop by some places for a day or two
01:10.43 brlcad true
01:10.53 brlcad and if there are any breakdowns or injuries
01:11.43 brlcad would be easy to rip a muscle without good distance training
01:12.26 brlcad at least with a decent pace, i like to keep at least a 20mph pace if not better on flat
01:12.47 Maloeran I do 35km daily to go to work at the moment, I wouldn't mind personally
01:12.56 Maloeran Right.
01:13.02 brlcad ~convert 20 miles to kilometers
01:13.16 brlcad sounds about right, do that within an hour
01:13.53 brlcad is that 70 a day, or 35 total?
01:14.02 Maloeran It's a bit slower due to traffic, but yes. 35km total
01:14.06 brlcad 70 is a pretty long commute
01:14.07 brlcad ahh, k
01:16.06 brlcad i used to have a 50 km route to work and back a couple years ago when I was starting
01:16.09 Twingy I think erik makes that many trips to the fridge in a week
01:16.13 brlcad that was hard to do more than 2 days back to back
01:16.40 brlcad course mostly because I had a horrible seat at the time.. geared for racing not distance
01:16.42 Maloeran So 100km total daily?
01:16.55 brlcad no 50 total
01:16.59 brlcad 25 each way
01:17.26 Twingy mal, how far are you from boston?
01:18.07 Maloeran 890km
01:18.16 brlcad since then i've rode 160km across 2 days easily enough
01:18.17 brlcad heh
01:18.21 Maloeran 50km daily is fine, but you may arrive rather tired at work
01:18.22 brlcad that would be one hard trip
01:18.27 Twingy you're closer to baltimore than boston?
01:18.47 Maloeran Or so some air traverl website says, yes
01:18.53 Maloeran Ack, wrong city
01:18.53 Twingy erm
01:19.00 Maloeran 356km to Boston
01:19.05 Maloeran I thought it didn't make sense too
01:19.06 Twingy can you bike that?
01:19.12 brlcad yeah, it was fine.. actually wasn't too tired, just my joints couldn't take more than two days before I had to let them recover
01:19.21 Maloeran Well sure, give me ~5 days
01:19.34 brlcad heh, that's about 200 miles
01:19.35 Twingy if you can do it, we could hook you up with room :)
01:19.37 brlcad you could do that in two days
01:19.46 brlcad depending on the terrain.. :)
01:20.20 Maloeran Depending if I don't get completely lost, and so on :), 5 days is playing it safe
01:20.28 Twingy 3 days :D
01:20.40 Twingy don't you have a gps? :)
01:21.07 brlcad Twingy: what's his name is interested too, he's looking into it I think
01:21.09 Maloeran I could get that... :)
01:21.15 Twingy david?
01:21.20 brlcad yeah
01:21.27 Twingy well, more the merry :)
01:21.36 brlcad not necesarily to bunk, but at least in going
01:21.46 Twingy ah
01:21.51 brlcad dunno what his plans are
01:21.57 brlcad too far out for him
01:22.06 brlcad mm.. could bike to boston..
01:22.15 brlcad then i wouldn't get any coding done
01:22.27 brlcad heh
01:22.39 brlcad can just imagine having a suitcase strapped to my back
01:22.48 Twingy and what if the airplane crashes? HUH?! :)
01:22.56 Twingy nah
01:23.00 Twingy buy your cloths at siggraph
01:23.16 Twingy show up to the siggraph mechandise booth all sweaty
01:23.18 Maloeran Arriving at Siggraph after a 3 days ride on bicycle with a tent and portable computers strapped on the back sure would be elegant
01:23.19 Twingy buy a change of cloths
01:23.33 Twingy we can provide computing power :)
01:23.39 Twingy you could send encrypted files :)
01:23.41 brlcad and then ride home with 50 lbs of proceedings on your back :)
01:23.51 Twingy proceedings can be mailed
01:23.59 brlcad where's the fun in that
01:24.15 Twingy riding to siggraph on a bike isnt fun enough?
01:24.24 Twingy you're almost as nuts as I am
01:24.26 Maloeran I'm seriously considering it :)
01:24.32 Maloeran I'll see when the time comes
01:24.44 Twingy talk about die hard siggraph fan :)
01:25.06 Twingy "Hey Gordon, just rode my bike here from boston"
01:25.35 Twingy I'd prefer hiking over biking though
01:25.39 Twingy I can hike 20 miles a day
01:25.52 Twingy would take a good 2 weeks advance start
01:25.54 Maloeran And you can ride 5 times that easily
01:26.06 brlcad 375mi from aberdeen to boston
01:26.06 Twingy I'm not a big fan of bike riding
01:26.21 Twingy I prefer to not use mechanical devices
01:26.31 Maloeran Hiking is slow, I tend to run whenever outside as walking is just too slow
01:26.43 Twingy I cannot run more than 8 miles at a span
01:26.53 Maloeran Good enough
01:26.56 Twingy speaking of which
01:27.00 Twingy soon as hardwood floor is done
01:27.06 Twingy I'll start my 50 days of running again
01:27.18 Twingy by the end of that I'll be able to run 8 miles again
01:27.37 brlcad the appalachian trail would get you there
01:27.39 Twingy hiking from edgewood to aberdeen would take me like 6 hours
01:27.59 brlcad you might want to get started in june
01:28.03 Twingy hehe
01:28.14 Twingy if I had the leave available
01:28.18 Twingy I would do it in a heart beat
01:28.18 Maloeran Did you try riding a bicycle lately, Twingy? Really, it's much more pleasant
01:28.30 Twingy I rode my bike all the time before I moved to maryland
01:28.40 Maloeran Ah nice.
01:28.40 Twingy little 15 mile rides
01:28.49 Twingy I prefer running though
02:34.19 tegtmeye arggg...papers suck. going home:(
02:36.33 ``Erik heh
02:36.36 ``Erik it's due friday?
02:44.40 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/cache.m4: if the compiler or preprocessor flags we're using for the current configure are different from when we last cached values, invalidate the configure cache.
03:13.32 ``Erik that's not smog, that's smug!
04:03.23 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_08.jpg
05:25.39 Twingy damn, tsp is rockin
05:44.29 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
05:59.21 pra5ad go go i-fund
05:59.46 Twingy the lack of g-code references on google is profund
05:59.51 Twingy *profound
06:02.33 Twingy niehgbors house is going for $342,900
06:03.35 Twingy my house type just sold for $325k
06:03.46 Twingy that's $30k more than I paid
06:11.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/ (rlecomp.c rleinterp.c): quell icc warnings
06:15.41 brlcad i had/have a copy of the g-code specification around here somewhere
06:22.43 Twingy with parameters?
06:22.53 Twingy finding without parameters is easy
06:23.07 Twingy with parameter grammar is not so easy
06:42.08 brlcad beats me
06:42.21 brlcad it just was some official specification
06:44.21 brlcad it's an ISO standard (like STEP..)
06:48.56 brlcad mm.. snippet example on wikipedia
06:48.57 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC
06:51.56 brlcad ISO 4342
07:03.38 brlcad is the overview, apparently ISO 6983 is the actual gcode codes
07:03.51 brlcad even better example: http://www.dsic.upv.es/~jsilva/cnc/index.htm
07:29.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: peculiar ifdef WIN32 commenting on three ifree functions for dsp, ebm, and vol primitives, enable them but recommend nobody rely on them till it gets sorted out
13:54.55 *** join/#brlcad cad328 (n=c0738410@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:55.14 cad328 hi
13:56.06 cad328 I got some initial install issues.. can anyone help?
13:57.51 cad328 I untarred the binary for linux in /usr/brlcad.. performed export BRLCAD_ROOT="/usr/brlcad/" and executed mged
13:58.49 cad328 but now when I try to open anything I get: No database has been opened!!!
14:10.32 brlcad cad328: what's your exact command line for invoking mged?
14:14.46 brlcad for starters, you should not need to set BRLCAD_ROOT
14:15.08 brlcad that is only needed if you relocate the binaries to a location that they weren't compiled for
14:16.00 brlcad the No database has been opened message should only be given if you start mged without a .g and try to perform modeling commands
14:22.23 cad328 Thanks.. tried that out.. and now it starts okay... another little issue
14:22.39 cad328 I try to import a .IGES file with iges-g
14:22.57 cad328 iges-g -t -N gallery -o gallery-iges.g ../galeria.IGS
14:23.02 cad328 and I get a segfault
14:23.28 cad328 Number of entities checked: 1670Summary of entity types found: 8 Circular Arc (type 100) 230 Composite Curve (type 102) 516 Line (type 110) 2 Surface of Revolution (type 120) 24 Transformation Matrix (3X4) (type 124) 520 Rational B-Spline Curve (type 126) 112 Rational B-Spline Surface (type 128) 115 Curve on a Parametric Surface (type 142) 114 Trimmed Parametric Surface (type 144) 12 S
14:24.03 cad328 I do apologise if I seem rather newbie... it's because I am..
14:30.03 ``Erik is galeria.IGS something that can be shared?
15:16.18 brlcad apparently not
15:48.36 *** join/#brlcad alon (n=c0738410@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:49.25 alrbn Galeria.iges is something that can be shared
15:52.37 *** join/#brlcad alrbn (n=alon@l192-115-132-16.broadband.actcom.net.il)
15:52.50 alrbn Hi.. hope this client works better
15:56.48 ``Erik okie, unless brlcad sees an issue with your call line, it might be useful for you to go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad and submit a bug report, including info on how you got the source, the kind of machine, the command you ran, attach the file, ... and mebbe crank up gdb and try to get a backtrace :)
21:32.24 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060331

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060331

00:56.20 Twingy and remember, no dangling projects in front of me
02:32.00 Twingy only you can prevent a forest fire
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22:46.44 Twingy hmph, I had over 5700 people try out nurbana back in the day
23:02.54 ``Erik o.O
23:03.08 ``Erik done flooring?
23:06.56 Twingy I've been working all day
23:07.20 ``Erik on the railroad?
23:07.27 Twingy on muves
23:07.35 ``Erik s2?
23:07.38 Twingy yep
23:07.44 ``Erik wendy made us put the screens back int he windows
23:07.52 ``Erik cuz dixie was whining about the wasps collecting in her office
23:07.55 ``Erik :(
23:07.58 ``Erik so much for that plan
23:07.59 Twingy hah
23:08.23 Twingy there is a huge tree just outside my fence that has started to uproot
23:08.38 Twingy and has a 5 foot 1 inch gap in the center
23:08.40 ``Erik as in; falling over? o.O
23:08.56 Twingy I need to call hoa and have them remove
23:09.18 Twingy maybe I can talk them into replacing it with something
23:09.28 ``Erik heh, unlikely
23:09.43 Twingy otherwise I'll buy a little 1 foot pine and plant it myself
23:10.23 ``Erik trees around here seem pretty small, if it falls away from your fence, it'll probably be no problem... back in washington, when a tree fell over, it could pull roots 6' away up, so even falling away it'd tear apart a fence or something
23:10.30 Twingy there's enough wood in that tree to do my floor
23:10.45 ``Erik heh, ya think? you lose half the wood from cutting it down...
23:11.12 Twingy I dunno about half
23:11.24 Twingy maybe 1/5
23:12.17 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/2006_winter_backyard.jpg
23:12.28 Twingy that big one 1/3 from the right
23:12.31 Twingy tilting right
23:14.51 archivist time for chainsaw massacre
23:15.19 ``Erik ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060401

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060401

03:16.21 *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387C73C.versanet.de)
03:49.35 Twingy http://slashdot.org/
04:25.06 pra5ad omg
04:47.10 brlcad :)
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06:36.48 *** mode/#brlcad [+oo ChanServ brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060402

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060402

03:16.31 *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387C242.versanet.de)
04:03.08 pra5ad fark
04:05.20 Twingy beatings will continue until moral improves
04:07.18 pra5ad fucking comcast again
04:07.28 pra5ad comes to my building, doesnt ring the damn bell and leaves
04:07.47 Twingy you don't have time for comcast
04:07.51 Twingy you should be here laying hardwood
04:08.02 pra5ad u never asked
04:08.07 Twingy haha
04:08.11 Twingy like you would offer a hand :P
04:08.18 pra5ad i would
04:08.56 Twingy I see a 2 acre plot in cecil county for $170k I want
04:09.24 pra5ad ask me tuesday
04:09.29 pra5ad my schedule is clear then
04:09.31 pra5ad ;)
04:09.38 Twingy heh
04:09.46 Twingy I'm almost done
04:09.50 Twingy I was busy today
04:10.16 pra5ad me too
04:10.29 Twingy truckload to the dump, washed truck, went running, grocery shopping, hardwood, home depot, lowes, hardwood
04:10.48 pra5ad where's the dump
04:10.53 pra5ad i need to offload some junk
04:10.55 Twingy scarboro road
04:11.02 Twingy do you live in harford county?
04:11.07 pra5ad yes
04:11.20 Twingy go where I tested my rocket motor
04:11.33 Twingy but keep going another 0.5m and take a right and go 2m
04:11.35 pra5ad the one i attended?
04:11.37 Twingy yes
04:11.40 pra5ad i c
04:11.48 pra5ad do they take computer parts?
04:11.53 Twingy they take anything
04:11.59 Twingy $5
04:12.01 pra5ad mobos have toxic chems
04:12.11 pra5ad i believe there's some procedure to dispose of em
04:12.14 Twingy I know, I did a presentation on that soph year in college
04:12.19 pra5ad wonder if said dump takes em
04:12.26 Twingy I'm sure they don't care
04:12.31 pra5ad heh
04:12.31 Twingy it's up to you to care
04:12.38 pra5ad eh?
04:12.45 Twingy they move about 100 cars/trucks through there an hour
04:12.47 pra5ad care to find someone to take mobos?
04:12.52 Twingy correct
04:12.56 Twingy they don't inspect your garbage
04:13.03 Twingy just give it a glance
04:13.12 pra5ad so dead bodies are ok?
04:13.17 Twingy they might ask you to take the metal to the metal area
04:13.19 pra5ad i mean biological matter...
04:13.28 Twingy you could probably get away with throwing a body there
04:13.34 Twingy as long as it was in a bag
04:13.39 Twingy in several pieces
04:13.46 Twingy nobody would ever know
04:14.06 pra5ad mm snatch (the movie)
04:14.14 Twingy snatchatory rape?
04:14.19 pra5ad pig farm for the win
04:14.25 pra5ad u havent seen snatch?
04:14.30 pra5ad guy ritchie film
04:14.33 Twingy I've seen lots of snatch
04:14.43 pra5ad imaginary ones don't count
04:14.45 Twingy just not recently
04:14.56 pra5ad and im talking about a film =)
04:15.01 Twingy I've been seeing ceramic tiles and hardwood instead
04:15.09 pra5ad those movies suck
04:15.11 Twingy nope, haven't seen the film
04:15.23 Twingy I'm about to install another ceiling fan I think
04:15.35 Twingy bought one to replace the hanging light above kitchen table
04:15.45 pra5ad start another 'movie day'
04:15.49 pra5ad ill bring the movie
04:15.52 Twingy that will make a good ending to today
04:15.54 pra5ad worth watching
04:15.57 Twingy hrm
04:16.03 Twingy we have wendy 9000 though
04:16.08 Twingy it might not be 'appropriate'
04:16.18 pra5ad gah
04:16.24 Twingy I think I pissed chuck off
04:16.27 Twingy in a good way
04:16.33 pra5ad good way?
04:16.35 Twingy we were mid work on some helmet stuff
04:16.54 Twingy and asked me on progress, told him I can't work on it any longer cause I've been reprioritized
04:17.16 Twingy wendy sent out a nice email to the bc's telling them to stop giving me new work
04:17.38 Twingy I'm liking all the attention :)
04:17.53 pra5ad about dangling?
04:17.55 pra5ad i was there
04:18.09 Twingy russell is getting impatient
04:18.25 pra5ad heh im gonna make a little promo movie
04:18.28 pra5ad for 'muves'
04:18.49 Twingy one's already been made
04:18.50 pra5ad 3D UI, etc, etc
04:18.53 Twingy it's called 'Titanic'
04:18.58 pra5ad lol
04:19.00 pra5ad g1
04:19.15 pra5ad i just wanna show them what is possible
04:19.21 pra5ad maybe then they'll get a clue
04:19.42 Twingy I want to make a little promo that shows how I stopped caring 2 years ago :)
04:20.04 Twingy 6 months of talking about muves at lunch was fun
04:20.08 Twingy after that... >_<
04:20.20 pra5ad heh
04:20.37 Twingy I'd rather talk about ponies :)
04:20.50 pra5ad omg ponies
04:20.53 Twingy excuse me, OMG PonIEs!
04:21.07 pra5ad KEKEKEKEKEKE
04:21.13 Twingy ROFL OMG HAHA
04:21.33 pra5ad =>^^<='
04:22.05 pra5ad bad news
04:22.21 pra5ad jogl has comparable performance to native gl
04:22.21 Twingy you lost an eye from a crab fork?
04:22.33 Twingy ok?
04:22.50 pra5ad means they'll prolly keep java
04:23.01 Twingy like I said, don't care :)
04:23.04 pra5ad even for the ui
04:23.32 pra5ad s/bad news/bad news for me/
04:23.36 Twingy rubbish
04:23.43 Twingy yea, sucks 2 b u
04:24.02 pra5ad im gonna push hard for cell
04:24.07 Twingy MUVES 4EVA!!!
04:24.16 pra5ad and sell it to SAB as their savior
04:24.22 Twingy I'm gonna... install a ceiling fan
04:24.24 pra5ad and jump ship
04:24.27 Twingy bbl
04:30.34 brlcad that's some good eat'n
05:19.14 pra5ad i went to bertucci's =(
05:39.28 Twingy done
05:41.53 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/kitchen_ceiling_fan_before.jpg
05:41.58 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/kitchen_ceiling_fan_after.jpg
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060403

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060403

21:07.32 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060404

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060404

19:45.44 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
21:55.56 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have libbu report memory allocation statistics
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060405

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060405

00:15.21 *** join/#brlcad cad337 (n=dced80ae@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:09.24 pra5ad woooo!
03:09.26 pra5ad go terps
03:09.45 Twingy now I know how the egyptian slaves felt while building the pyramids
03:10.15 Twingy though, the hardwood floor is looking like 1/2 the work as the ceramic kitchen floor
03:10.29 Twingy and alot less messy
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16:55.02 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: in fact, we can't rely on the _ifree() functions as they conflict with declarations in other files.. need to investigate more, but just disable for now
17:02.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: benchmarks are working again, so we're good to go. slated for later: fix the laundry list of security issues reported by Pedro, demote some of the next iteration items as well (autogen overrides, configure optimization)
17:10.34 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: missing string.h
17:18.17 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: update the documentation with comments about gcc crashing on -O3. also provide the actual recommended production release build configure lines for 32-bit and 64-bit if only for convenience to future releases.
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18:10.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/trimsurf.c: fourth parameter seems to be missing... make a note of it
18:20.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (18 files in 3 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:16.11 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:16.36 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (rttherm/ssampview.c fbed/execshell.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:18.02 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: meh, silly supposedly static file got reordered
19:18.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (irprep/all_sf.c irprep/shapefact.c libdm/options.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:19.49 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (lgt/execshell.c lgt/hmenu.c lgt/reflect.c nirt/showshot.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:22.27 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (3 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:54.59 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
20:04.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: remove the have_unistd_h check so that ttcp may remain completely stand-alone
20:14.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: xpush sometimes doesn't work
20:22.40 tegtmeye exit
20:27.08 archivist looking at the database format tonight re temperature, material and expansion and the resulting center of gravity, havnt found much yet any pointers?
20:29.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: boo hiss, Creat 'part'
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20:55.47 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: option to mged make command or new command that enters solid edit mode.. same for cp command. (suggestions from dwayne)
20:57.18 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: analyze command doesn't print values with enough precision
21:03.13 *** part/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387E582.versanet.de)
21:14.13 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: optimize CSG structures automatically, automatic simplification
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21:53.53 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060406

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060406

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15:12.10 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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18:43.10 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modify wdb_get_obj_bounds() and wdb_get_obj_bounds2() to properly free their rt_i instances. Modify wdb_binary_cmd to call fopen with the 'b' flag if on Windows.
18:45.55 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Modify the shareDb method to set the sharedDb flag.
18:47.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor mods to set the default button on a few dialogs.
19:21.40 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cmd.c: quell warnings from intel compiler, use long type
19:30.55 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (11 files in 3 dirs): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
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19:56.36 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (bw-fb.c fbcmap.c fbcolor.c pix-fb.c pixflip-fb.c pp-fb.c): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
20:07.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (6 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
20:38.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (7 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
20:50.36 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (21 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
21:00.42 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: windows needs these or apps won't link.. need to figure out why still
21:46.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/cache.m4: ack, missing trailing ` on the exec command
23:31.40 *** join/#brlcad guu (i=guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060407

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060407

01:59.28 *** join/#brlcad richard12345 (n=chatzill@209.53.180.250)
02:01.09 richard12345 Hi, I was curious to know where I can download the WinXP version of BRL CAD, as it seems missing on the SF pages and yet is listed as supporting it.
02:03.00 learner richard12345, there is a beta available to select groups, just not on sf.net
02:03.20 learner richard12345, there will be a binary download available on sf.net in about a week if you can wait (much better than the beta)
02:04.08 richard12345 Yes I can wait for a week. Are you sure?
02:04.48 richard12345 Do you know if it does automatic dimensioning?
02:05.06 learner i do know
02:05.11 learner it does not :)
02:05.36 richard12345 It does not do autodimensioning?
02:05.46 learner richard12345, the 7.8.0 release is being prepared as I type this -- unix binaries likely will post tomorrow, first windows shortly thereafter
02:05.48 richard12345 How do people model with it then? :)
02:06.12 learner it's quite powerful in other aspects ;)
02:06.22 richard12345 Great!
02:06.26 richard12345 has anyone ever attempted architecture with it?
02:06.34 richard12345 So I hear.
02:06.34 learner somewhat different modeling philosophy in general from what you're probably used to as well
02:06.42 learner yes, they have
02:06.57 richard12345 That's good to know.
02:07.49 richard12345 I've done boolean if that's what you're talking about in terms of modeling philosophy.
02:08.05 learner hm, that reminds me .. there is was an architecture company in florida that was interested in making the mods necessary to make brl-cad their primary sole modeler.. should see what they're up to
02:08.22 learner not just boolean, but that is certainly part of it
02:08.48 richard12345 What would the architecture company be?
02:08.55 learner reading through the mged tutorial might give you a basic idea of some of the fundamentals
02:09.07 richard12345 on the main site?
02:09.09 richard12345 ok
02:09.11 learner i can't recall their name.. just remembered their interest
02:09.12 learner yeah
02:09.35 learner it was a small firm, iirc
02:10.33 richard12345 Fair enough. Anyway, thanks for the news and direction. I'll check it out and see. Catch you later!
02:10.34 learner quick overview of the primitives here i put together a while ago: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
02:10.53 learner no probl. cheers
02:10.59 richard12345 I'll read it over dinner. :) Thanks again.
02:19.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: define USE_FBSERV so libdm/mged allow direct fbserv render connections
08:24.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/mallocNd.c: dont use the k&r-style malloc extern now that the file correctly includes/presumes stdlib.h for it
13:26.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h:
13:26.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: ws; changed oslo matrix vector to be statically allocated and added support for
13:26.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: oslo matrix pools (structure and accessors for struct oslo_mat). dynamic
13:26.31 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: allocation of olso_mats were a serious bottleneck in profiling results.
13:30.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: ws; fixed trim curve looping constructs in export/import routines; fixed nurb sizing routine
13:33.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_copy.c: ws; added support to copy trim contours when copying surfaces
17:49.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nurb_refine.c nurb_split.c nurb_xsplit.c): modified call to rt_nurb_free_oslo to support new implementation
18:31.47 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_trim.c: added rt_nurb_uv_trimmed() to support calculating whether an intersection is inside/outside a trim contour.
18:36.30 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: fix broken BU_LIST manipulations; added functions to support new pool-based oslo_mat allocation, uses accessors: rt_nurb_new_oslo()/rt_nurb_free_oslo()
18:37.51 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/oslo_calc.c: utilize new allocation/free routines for oslo_mat
18:39.25 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/nurb.c: comment detail
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19:08.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (BUGS NEWS TODO configure.ac): update from HEAD
19:25.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update from HEAD
19:26.56 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (30 files in 11 dirs): update from HEAD
19:30.57 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/ (69 files in 9 dirs): update from HEAD
19:34.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/ (130 files in 19 dirs): update from HEAD
20:10.06 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:10.07 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
23:28.21 Twingy http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4018/eastercard0yu.jpg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060408

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060408

00:22.20 brlcad heh
01:02.54 ``Erik :D
01:06.03 brlcad anger management?
01:06.25 archivist I think a good woman should take erik in hand and give him a good spanking
01:06.57 archivist hmm perhaps not he may like it too much
01:12.43 brlcad undoubtedly
01:29.38 ``Erik O.o
01:30.04 ``Erik you heard him, sean, find me a good woman :D
02:03.11 brlcad that sounds like a challenge
02:03.13 brlcad er, I mean
02:03.18 brlcad that sounds challenging
02:03.24 brlcad *ahem*
03:06.55 Twingy wanna write an interpreter in C erik?
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08:33.19 Twingy http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604080432.jpg
12:00.59 ``Erik interpreter of what?
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22:44.53 brlcad there are lex/yacc grammars for a C interpreter already written that you could just use
22:52.50 Twingy I don't want a C interpreter
22:52.56 Twingy I want an interpreter written in C
22:56.05 archivist ti interpret what? g codes
22:56.47 Twingy yes, but I think I'm going to write it rather than explain what I need
22:58.52 archivist fun
22:59.10 Twingy http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604080432.jpg
22:59.13 Twingy I did that last night
22:59.25 Twingy using my cylinder primitive
22:59.58 Twingy It is totally unoptimized and took 57 minutes to run
23:00.03 brlcad that looks horrible :)
23:00.18 Twingy it was a piece of scrap from the floor
23:00.24 Twingy how so?
23:01.04 archivist 57 mins how many laps , was the cutter worn out through wear (too long a contact time)
23:01.29 Twingy my software pushed it through 3 layers per cylinder
23:01.49 Twingy and I think 5 or 6 revolutions per layer
23:02.01 Twingy one on the right is 20% smaller
23:02.22 brlcad it just looks like a piece of scrap is all :)
23:02.36 Twingy the precision would be higher if I had aluminum
23:02.43 Twingy but this is very good for wood
23:02.56 Twingy wood splinters now matter what precision you have
23:03.01 Twingy s/now/no
23:03.24 Twingy the two cylinders in the middle are all I milled
23:03.33 Twingy the rest is the actual scrap
23:03.45 archivist got to get the cutter speed up to minimise splinters in wood
23:03.58 Twingy doesn't matter how high it is, still going to splinter
23:04.31 Twingy these circles are slightly larger than the size of my thumbnail
23:04.35 archivist does kinetics mean a cut instead of splinter
23:06.20 Twingy there really isn't any splintering on the circles
23:07.02 archivist I noticed its reasonably smooth
23:07.43 Twingy I basically just blew out the sawdust and wiped it down with a piece of sand paper for a few seconds
23:07.57 Twingy didn't really need any work
23:08.15 Twingy anywho, back to coding
23:09.40 archivist the thng that buggers the finish on the cnc miller here is that it stops for a ms or three while its moves to the next primative
23:10.02 archivist and so leaves marks
23:10.30 Twingy I don't notice it in wood
23:11.24 Twingy soon I will have to build my forge
23:12.00 archivist hehe I might put up a pic of the forge I built outside here for 1 job
23:14.43 Twingy I'm adding tool change code now
23:16.27 archivist www.archivist.info/forge
23:17.17 archivist didnt have coal used barbeque briquets
23:17.20 Twingy dude, that's ghetto :)
23:17.57 Twingy I'm going to build a mobile cart that hold a propane tank and burner for melting aluminum
23:18.06 archivist not much wind from a 386 power supply
23:20.00 Twingy I just need to get my mig welder so I can make it
23:20.15 Twingy debating whether to buy the fish tank before or it or not
23:20.57 archivist get the welder then make the fishtank
23:21.23 Twingy I was thinking about doing that
23:21.32 Twingy and use my mill to make some braces
23:22.04 Twingy will hold the glass in place and then I can just add caulk
23:22.49 Twingy it'll be totally over engineered
23:26.02 Twingy I will need to work on my glass cutting skills first
23:27.10 archivist lube the cutter with a light oil, scribe once only with firm pressure
23:27.37 archivist watch a pro for a few minutes
23:27.40 Twingy I'm talking about cutting out circles
23:28.03 archivist they make it look easy
23:28.31 Twingy I'm tempted to maybe use plexiglas instead
23:28.59 Twingy 1/4" plexiglas is good stuff
23:29.39 Twingy mount it in a box groove
23:30.01 Twingy and far lighter
23:33.06 Twingy yea, I'll do that
23:33.18 Twingy and build aluminum support braces, will look sweet
23:46.26 archivist we did a plexyglass cover for a church clock, to stop the sandstone grit from getting in the gears
23:47.36 Twingy how is your mill coming
23:52.17 archivist www.archivist.info/forge/machinery.html
23:53.34 archivist it needs the software re doing, we may refit the electronics to do that
23:54.03 archivist I usually use it by pressing the buttons !!!
23:54.26 archivist as the software is so bad
23:55.19 archivist Ive got 3 other millers here to use
23:58.36 Twingy heh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060409

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060409

00:00.32 archivist www.archivist.info/forge/garvin.html the oldest miller
00:00.40 archivist used this last week
00:02.50 archivist ignore lack of modern health and safety
00:07.11 archivist hmm after a quick google the garvin vertical seems to be a bit rare, we guess first world war vintage
00:17.14 Twingy who is we
00:18.13 archivist two of us here the boss and me
00:18.29 Twingy looks like that place needs a little spring cleaning
00:18.52 archivist no space!!
00:19.08 archivist too much work to do
00:19.12 Twingy how many sq ft?
00:20.13 archivist 20x40ft with the basement 2/3rd dug out
00:20.30 archivist an old 1913 tin curch
00:20.36 archivist an old 1913 tin church
00:20.47 Twingy yea, that is tiny
00:21.40 archivist specially if you see how much is stuffed in
00:21.54 Twingy yea
00:22.01 Twingy I only got room for 2 more tools
00:22.10 Twingy will probly be the mig welder and a lathe
00:24.08 archivist we also have a portacabin in the yard (cnc is in there and some of my electronics )
00:24.43 archivist southebend lathe is nice
00:24.51 Twingy I'm gonna get a grizzly
01:39.41 pra5ad hd-pbs
01:39.43 pra5ad mm mmmmm
01:39.56 Twingy cnc mill mmmm
01:40.09 Twingy getting close to the point where you can design your robotic hand
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03:41.55 *** mode/#brlcad [+oo ChanServ brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
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19:18.37 Kakihara I'm helping my parents design a new house. Could brlcad help in this?
19:34.43 Twingy it can be used, yes
19:35.02 Twingy however, there are programs out there more suited like autodesk
20:12.13 archivist punch software http://www.punchsoftware.com/index.htm has a 50$ home designer
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20:36.02 Kakihara Twingy and arhivist: thanks
20:36.10 Kakihara archivist I mean
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23:04.26 Twingy http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604091905.jpg
23:06.27 brlcad neat
23:07.30 archivist still fraid of metal then
23:07.38 Twingy don't have any
23:07.45 Twingy just a garbage can full of 30lbs of aluminum
23:08.07 Twingy one the living room and garage are done being remodeled, I can build my aluminum forge
23:08.17 Twingy and make a bunch of aluminum bricks
23:10.08 Twingy I'll be adding a sketch feature that lets you import a bitmap
23:10.21 Twingy but that's a ways off
23:10.36 archivist dxf to gcode as well
23:10.37 Twingy it'll be used for milling out traces on a circuit board
23:10.38 brlcad this would be sweet http://db.brlcad.org/tmp/avatar.gif
23:10.43 Twingy dxf is yucky
23:10.54 archivist i know
23:11.06 Twingy I don't plan to support triangle formats
23:11.22 Twingy triangles are yucky for this
23:11.23 archivist ive written scripts to fix dxf's
23:12.28 Twingy okie
23:13.09 archivist had to join the lines up for a laser cutter
23:13.51 Twingy my buddy john is building one right now with a 25 watt CO2 laser
23:15.10 archivist a freind got a laser from the scrap yard but not been brave enough to switch it on
23:15.58 Twingy without a lens they aren't very useful
23:17.31 Twingy ok, time to work on my file format
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060410

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060410

00:04.54 pra5ad im glued to my tv now
00:04.56 pra5ad damn you HD
00:04.59 pra5ad damn you!
00:24.06 Twingy not good :)
00:24.31 Twingy I watch like 3 hours a week
00:24.38 Twingy I wonder why I pay for it
00:24.55 Twingy I guess cause I can
00:26.49 Twingy pra5ad, you should start designing your robot parts
00:27.08 Twingy you can make them out of wood before comitting to metal
03:34.10 pra5ad heh robots arent exactly on my mind right now
03:35.03 Twingy http://gcam.js.cx/
03:38.57 Twingy you see stocks dropped on friday?
03:39.32 Twingy Top Financial News
03:39.32 Twingy Some Worry 1st-Quarter Stock Rally Is Over
03:39.45 Twingy just posted on yahoo financial
03:54.47 Twingy esta fuego!
04:54.18 Twingy 0xBED
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18:26.44 IngMan Hi people
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060411

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060411

00:08.56 *** join/#brlcad pyranha (n=pyranha@master.solcore.net)
00:09.17 pyranha hello
00:09.41 pyranha has anyone in here installed brlcad on a gentoo based system?
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01:09.07 brlcad pyranha yes, there have been several that have installed brl-cad on a gentoo system
01:09.14 brlcad ahh, not here
01:12.30 Twingy 39 more days of running >_<
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02:36.06 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
03:01.02 pra5ad well well
03:01.08 pra5ad just got tsp confirmations
03:01.15 Twingy heh
03:01.35 Twingy stocks just went up 8000%
03:01.41 Twingy guess you shoulda stayed put
03:01.51 pra5ad shazbot!
03:01.54 Twingy :)
03:07.39 pra5ad woot
03:07.49 pra5ad somehow this transfer netted me $200
03:08.07 Twingy sure it wasn't the rise in stock?
03:08.25 pra5ad what exactly went up? G?
03:08.38 Twingy cause mine went $150 during the transfer
03:08.47 Twingy but I think its cause they were still climbing
03:08.59 Twingy maybe it's a loophole :)
03:09.23 Twingy day trading tsp funds!
03:09.57 pra5ad hah
03:10.06 pra5ad like this oblivion gold hack
03:10.24 pra5ad keep transfering gold from inventory and drops
03:10.37 pra5ad eventually build up a fortune
03:11.10 Twingy heh
03:11.38 Twingy does that make you a gold digger?
03:12.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: release note details for 7.6.8 and 7.8.0
03:13.29 pra5ad if i was a hot woman and the tsp fund was a rich guy
03:13.30 pra5ad then yes..
03:14.07 Twingy I knew it
03:14.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): update version to 7.8.0, preparing for release
03:15.00 pra5ad ur script needs a date range function
03:15.08 Twingy meh
03:18.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: update Changelog with entries since 2006.12.22, preparing for release 7.8.0
03:26.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): bump to developer rev 7.8.1, cvs is tagged with rel-7-8-0
03:32.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: redo 7.8.0 version number
03:33.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bump correctly to 7.8.1 after retag
03:40.20 pra5ad [2]prasad@duriel:/var/www :. date -v2003y -v06m -v+2m +%Y%m
03:40.20 pra5ad date: invalid option -- v
03:40.22 pra5ad hmph
03:40.48 Twingy [justin@lithium:~]$ date -v2003y -v06m -v+2m +%Y%m
03:40.48 Twingy 200308
03:41.12 pra5ad :. date --version
03:41.12 pra5ad date (coreutils) 5.2.1
03:41.12 pra5ad Written by David MacKenzie.
03:41.17 Twingy linux sucks :)
03:41.29 pra5ad bah
03:41.37 Twingy <PROTECTED>
03:41.37 Twingy <PROTECTED>
03:44.13 pra5ad fsa for me then
03:44.41 Twingy hrm?
03:44.52 pra5ad if (m > 12) m = 0
03:44.56 pra5ad :p
03:48.12 Twingy heh
03:48.20 Twingy my file format is sooo overengineered
03:48.27 Twingy this thing will never need changing
04:04.35 Twingy heh
04:04.41 Twingy an hour of changing code and it just compiles
04:07.07 Twingy heh
04:07.23 Twingy 73 million dollars to crash 2 tons into the moon
04:07.36 Twingy and we complain about $80k of air conditioning
04:08.28 pra5ad gah ur gplot script breaks on my box
04:08.41 Twingy old version?
04:11.05 pra5ad extra linebreaks
04:11.11 pra5ad whats tsp_image.cgi
04:11.24 Twingy it opens an image and writes binary data
04:11.32 Twingy to the user
04:11.40 pra5ad post it
04:12.35 Twingy http://tsp.js.cx/tsp_image.pl
04:17.15 pra5ad yay!
04:52.19 Twingy working?
04:57.24 pra5ad yup
04:57.32 pra5ad ill hack it tomorrow
04:58.30 Twingy first you have to pay me royalties
04:58.45 Twingy under the justin cost-you-lots licensing (tm)
04:59.36 pra5ad http://141.157.106.216:8080/tsp/tsp.pl
04:59.40 pra5ad does that work for u?
04:59.53 Twingy I renamed those to pl, they were cgi
04:59.58 Twingy so that server would not parse
05:00.08 pra5ad well does it work?
05:00.25 Twingy seems to
05:00.29 pra5ad k
05:01.00 Twingy pra5ad, make us rich
05:01.15 Twingy we shall thwart the tsp system
05:01.41 pra5ad now i need to tie this into wsj somehow
05:01.43 Twingy then get caught up in some money laundering scandal
05:01.49 Twingy wtf is wsj
05:01.56 pra5ad wall street journal
05:02.17 Twingy heh
05:02.25 Twingy I have much simpler method
05:02.39 Twingy take a 50 - 100 day span
05:02.42 Twingy most recent
05:02.49 pra5ad compare to gas prices?
05:02.52 Twingy compare against last 250
05:03.01 Twingy if curve is above an outlier
05:03.07 Twingy move down
05:03.08 Twingy if it's down
05:03.11 Twingy move up
05:03.17 pra5ad crude
05:03.20 Twingy move down == goto g, move up == goto S and I
05:03.21 Twingy works
05:03.25 pra5ad breaks for small noise
05:03.35 Twingy the small noise is 5 - 25
05:03.45 Twingy 100 provides a very healthy sample
05:03.52 Twingy remember all these are composites
05:03.59 Twingy so they are already filtered
05:13.17 Twingy ooh, sweet
05:13.25 Twingy loading is almost done
14:46.58 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
14:51.45 archivist you been sent packing then
14:55.46 ``Erik o.O
14:59.09 ``Erik *grouse* changin' --enable names ain't polite
15:02.39 ``Erik also; completely breaking them, uncool
15:06.33 brlcad :)
15:07.26 brlcad ``Erik: the intent for the packaging systems is to use --enable-everything or --disable-everything followed by --enable-whatever for specific packages, adding the rest to the dependency list
15:07.42 brlcad I don't believe you can disable tcl/tk/itcl/iwidgets yet still
15:07.56 brlcad at least not tk
15:08.06 brlcad and itcl/itk, last I checked
15:08.17 ``Erik that ain't what I'm grousing about
15:08.30 brlcad jove crap?
15:08.37 brlcad --disable-jove
15:08.52 ``Erik yeah, you have an over-wide conditional
15:08.52 brlcad (all those -build suffixes are optional)
15:08.59 brlcad oh?
15:14.15 ``Erik *testtesttest*
15:18.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fix an over-zealous conditional so --disable-jove works (some of us use vi)
15:20.59 archivist didnt know editors other than vi existed
16:24.30 ``Erik well
16:24.45 ``Erik there's this lispos emulator called emacs that some people think is an editor...
16:24.58 ``Erik but if you look at it, it's a full os emulator... that's missing a decent editor
16:24.59 ``Erik go figure
16:29.55 ``Erik ahhh, here we go... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/games/fortune/datfiles/Attic/fortunes2.diff?r1=1.53&r2=1.54
16:29.56 ``Erik O:-)
17:10.01 brlcad heh, i figured you'd add vi, I just wasn't going to add it :)
17:10.40 ``Erik nah, --disable-jove should actually disable jove, not enable some funkyassed fucktard auto mode...
17:11.05 ``Erik (looking for any editor at all is damage, beeyotch)
17:11.48 brlcad mged requires an editor, it's for providing a means at a sensible default better than 'ed'
17:13.22 ``Erik tho some of the slime stuff is kinda neat
23:43.42 Twingy meh, 38 days left
23:44.22 Twingy why not pick nano as a the default editor :)
23:44.38 Twingy it compiles lickity split and is tiny, and an order of magnitude more powerful than ed
23:45.25 Twingy reverse search, search and replace, insert file, spell check, justify, cut/paste, etc.
23:46.38 Twingy so basically a hair less than vi, but it shows you what the key combos are while you are editing
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060412

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060412

00:21.04 ``Erik erm, ed has reverse search, search&replace, insert file, can do spell check, ...
00:21.15 Twingy codin' time
00:21.25 ``Erik classic vi is basically ed for 'tards
00:32.45 brlcad foodtards
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02:30.50 Twingy 3,320 lines
02:43.48 ``Erik heh, hit it with sloccount? :)
02:44.12 Twingy you can do it
02:44.15 Twingy I'm busy coding :)
02:45.54 Twingy now that file saving/loading with the new format are done
02:46.08 Twingy I can work getting cylinder optimized and lines done
02:46.15 Twingy then work on the sim
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14:52.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_refine.c: ws; comment change
14:55.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: Removed shared pool, went to thread-specific pools. Better solution, but only temporary since bu_parallel doesn't support thread-locals.
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16:51.05 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
19:19.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Update for handling an argument (i.e. file.g)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060413

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060413

02:56.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Added support for a couple more entity types
02:56.19 pra5ad whoa
02:56.20 pra5ad !!
02:58.39 ``Erik heh, what, you thought he'd just disappear?
03:04.10 pra5ad yes
03:04.13 pra5ad yes i did
04:15.57 pra5ad erm in 7.8.1 mged shows 7.7.0 in the title/help dialog
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04:24.38 pra5ad ack that wasn't good
04:24.46 pra5ad raytracing cray.g killed my kernel
04:33.41 Twingy I suspect I will move funds within the next 6 business days
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13:08.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: raytracers report the wrong amount of cumulative time on amd64, benchmark reports wrong numbers unless using -P1
13:14.48 brlcad pra5ad: you didn't build cleanly
13:15.27 brlcad 7.8.1 is cvs head, which involved a configure.ac update
13:36.51 ``Erik hah, killed the kernel? what a shitty os :D
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22:57.46 reisio awe, people quit :p
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23:52.23 reisio I don't suppose any of you use BRL-CAD on Gentoo Linux?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060414

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060414

00:06.25 ``Erik fbsd and osX here, sorry
00:09.51 reisio I guess I'll just try building it on my own
00:09.53 reisio woo adventure :p
00:12.22 ``Erik should work fairly easily...
00:12.32 ``Erik just configure, make, make install
00:13.26 reisio but what if I make a typo?! oh noes :p
00:13.27 reisio heheh
00:13.41 reisio ``Erik: what sort of stuff do you use BRL-CAD for?
00:14.05 ``Erik um, I test it to make sure I didn't break it, mostly
00:14.06 ``Erik heh
00:14.22 ``Erik I don't actually USE it, per se...
00:14.32 ``Erik tho I am using some of the libraries in other projects, like librt
00:14.43 ``Erik (librt being the library, not the project)
00:15.35 reisio awe
00:15.47 reisio what's the project?
00:16.24 ``Erik just some non-visual scientific analysis type shizzlenitz
00:18.48 reisio pish, no GUI? :p heheh, k
00:21.15 ``Erik nope, no gui at the moment, input file, run program, output file, done
00:21.26 Twingy day 14 done
00:21.28 ``Erik gui's are for 'tards O:)
00:21.32 reisio Twingy: nice
00:21.36 reisio ``Erik: :)
00:21.44 ``Erik 14? already? damn
00:21.56 ``Erik time flies when you, uh, don't care
00:22.00 ``Erik :} *duck*
00:22.00 Twingy yep
00:22.25 ``Erik working from home tomorrow?
00:22.32 Twingy yes
00:22.45 ``Erik heh, I assume the schematics he was whiteboarding are NOT related to the monitor stands? :)
00:22.53 Twingy negative
00:23.12 reisio day 14 of what?
00:23.38 ``Erik he's training for the annual 'run the fuck from the police, dawg!' event
00:24.01 ``Erik back in the 16's?
00:24.12 Twingy when I try
00:24.17 ``Erik (and are ya gonna do the 5km this year?)
00:24.22 Twingy when I don't try 19's
00:24.30 Twingy I may
00:25.46 ``Erik running the neighborhood? or the track at the school?
00:26.06 Twingy neighborhood
00:26.32 ``Erik s/s//
00:26.43 reisio heh
00:26.53 ``Erik wow, ibot is r-tarded
00:27.57 reisio hrmmm
00:28.11 reisio did they mean to leave index.html up on brl-cad.org ?
00:29.19 ``Erik probably
00:29.49 ``Erik why?
00:30.16 reisio well index.php has the cute PDF filesizes
00:31.24 ``Erik eh? o.O
00:31.51 reisio compare http://brl-cad.org/index.html and http://brl-cad.org/index.php
00:32.28 ``Erik ah... both seem to be updated recently, tho
01:02.10 *** part/#brlcad reisio (n=reisio@gentoo/user/reisio)
01:33.28 brlcad it's always been like that
01:33.47 brlcad i just changed them to caps, and made index at least show pdf
01:34.34 brlcad but php has always shown size
01:35.25 ``Erik heh, he left, duder
01:40.29 brlcad just sayin'
01:52.28 pra5ad Twingy
01:52.38 pra5ad | | too high
01:52.40 pra5ad haha
02:03.55 pra5ad hmm maybe not
02:04.02 pra5ad if i dont slouch
02:41.13 Twingy o.O
02:42.02 Twingy raise your chair an inch?
02:42.33 ``Erik not "slouching"
02:42.46 Twingy you like cockpits eh?
02:43.26 Twingy I don't think I will ever do that again though
02:43.30 ``Erik yes, but usually we call them "vaginas"
02:43.34 Twingy soft steel from now on
02:43.42 ``Erik heh, and harden it after?
02:43.50 Twingy no hardening, no need
03:37.24 Twingy were they deep enough?
03:47.10 Twingy next rocket nozzle will be 6.25"L x 1.25"D in 3 sections
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14:00.19 Twingy UNIONTOWN, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A man threw a microwave at his girlfriend, then fatally beat her after she refused to heat up sandwiches, police said.
14:20.31 ``Erik O.O
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17:56.44 prasad_werk where is the *.adrt loading code within the src tree?
18:05.29 brlcad whose src tree?
18:06.19 brlcad src/adrt/* and src/conv/g-adrt.c in brl-cad's
18:12.02 prasad_werk yea
18:12.31 prasad_werk im gonna write g-bin
18:12.45 prasad_werk g-adrt creates 5 files
18:13.01 prasad_werk annoying to read
18:13.08 prasad_werk the DIVA format is better
19:23.50 Twingy gah this crap is pissing me off
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19:24.01 prasad_werk sean
19:24.05 prasad_werk http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/stl/
19:24.06 Twingy o.O
19:24.32 brlcad yep
19:24.33 prasad_werk stl wont work for me
19:24.36 brlcad paul's site is great
19:24.42 prasad_werk its a single mesh per file
19:24.57 prasad_werk i want to collate all of them into one
19:25.22 brlcad so write out N files and cat them together
19:25.38 prasad_werk that's a valid stl file?
19:25.56 brlcad beats me, have to read the stl spec
19:26.12 brlcad i wouldn't just trust paul on whether you can only have one mesh too
19:26.46 brlcad easy enough to read the spec, it really is pretty straightforward
19:27.32 ``Erik BEER ME
19:27.33 brlcad prasad_werk: alternative would the the ply format
19:27.42 brlcad it also has an ascii and binary format
19:28.00 brlcad and paul writes about it as well iirc :)
19:28.14 brlcad even has some parsing library code, though we have ply export support iirc
19:28.33 prasad_werk g-ply?
19:28.46 brlcad what else?
19:28.58 brlcad http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/ply/
19:30.18 prasad_werk there's no g-ply in brlcad..
19:31.05 Twingy pra5ad, so did you decide to use the stands or not?
19:31.06 prasad_werk heh
19:31.09 prasad_werk A PLY file contains the description of exactly one object.
19:31.13 prasad_werk Twingy: im using em
19:31.44 Twingy gonna finish them this weekend?
19:31.56 prasad_werk prolly next
19:40.29 Twingy I need me an 8 core opteron at home
19:40.57 Twingy too bad we don't have the budget per user that we had in the 80's
19:43.48 ``Erik yeah, darn the cold war for ending too soon o.O *duck*
19:45.22 ``Erik twiggly, got that system usage graphing thing sorta kinda lit up for some machines now... o.O
19:45.32 Twingy fun
19:46.43 Twingy okay, I need some autofoo help
19:46.53 ``Erik yuh oh, and the amd64?
19:46.55 Twingy got a directory that builds a library and binary
19:47.15 ``Erik okie?
19:47.17 Twingy that library 'X' contributes to a large library 'L'
19:47.41 Twingy the program in the directory where 'X' lives requires linking against 'L'
19:47.50 ``Erik uh
19:47.51 Twingy *this was not my design*
19:47.57 ``Erik given how make works, that's a circular dependancy
19:48.27 Twingy basically I need to tell the Makefile to not build the binary until library 'L' is built
19:48.56 Twingy to build tihe library in directory 'X' and the rest of the other libs to make 'L' then go back and do the program in 'X'
19:49.07 ``Erik heh, is this the conversion project?
19:49.16 Twingy no it's M2
19:49.20 ``Erik my first remark would be to re-org
19:49.32 ``Erik yeah, the conversion project... from imake/rt to auto/tie
19:49.34 ``Erik heh
19:50.12 Twingy k, so no solution
19:50.15 ``Erik you COULD be horribly hackish and have .PHONY targets as deps that cd $(top_builddir)/path/to/stupid && make libcruft.la
19:50.24 Twingy nah
19:50.43 ``Erik so if L and libX are build and you build X, it cd's to L to build, which cd's to X/ to build libX
19:50.49 ``Erik aight *shrug*
19:51.09 brlcad you put the build rules in the makefile above the lower ones
19:51.17 ``Erik are they aware they have circular dependancies in their build graph? and do they grok what it means? :)
19:51.44 brlcad same as if you only had one makefile or non-recursive make
19:52.39 ``Erik (there are solutions, just not pretty ones)
19:58.15 Twingy how about a build rule to build at install
20:00.44 ``Erik possible, but generally considered bad form... look at the -hook rules in Makefile.in
20:00.55 Twingy 1 step ahead of you :)
20:02.52 ``Erik damn I need sleep... I'm trying to figure out if anyone would notice if I peed out my office window o.O
20:21.40 Twingy you need the Castanza [tm]
20:21.48 Twingy under the desk sleeping unit
20:30.44 Twingy I think I'm going to take all the two letter directories and make them libXX
20:31.45 Twingy binaries and libraries should not live in the same folder
20:32.44 Twingy this would be such a nightmare if I were using cvs right now
20:35.50 Twingy muuuch better
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20:36.39 prasad_werk damn..
20:36.58 prasad_werk glfpstest was accepted already
20:40.16 brlcad now just 6 months to form 1 it
20:50.22 Twingy I'm going to smack pra5ad if he keeps signing back on irc
21:28.03 Twingy that was good, I got a chance to clean up a handful of inconsistencies in the includes
21:36.24 ``Erik ghuh
21:38.05 Twingy indeed
21:38.19 Twingy almost time for my 15th day of running
22:38.22 Twingy 2 miles in 15:47
22:56.57 ``Erik ewie
23:32.54 brlcad mm. ice age 2
23:34.39 brlcad it's all about the squirrell
23:34.43 brlcad ~spell squirrel
23:40.49 ``Erik o.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060415

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060415

02:01.17 Twingy indeed
02:03.02 ``Erik EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!
02:04.41 Twingy I should stop working on M2
02:04.46 ``Erik yes, you should
02:04.48 ``Erik bitch
02:16.01 Twingy fro ho
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05:03.10 pra5ad bad poker night
05:03.18 pra5ad only $1.70 profit
05:03.22 Twingy heh
05:03.32 pra5ad should be $7+
05:03.37 pra5ad screwed up a cpl of hands
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060416

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060416

02:14.39 Twingy got up at 10, made it to DE at noon, picked up last bundle of wood, finished laying it at 5pm, rented a floor sander, finished sanding and returning sander at 7pm, went grocery shopping, ate dinner, went running at 9:30
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02:31.33 Twingy http://www.js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_14.jpg
02:31.54 pra5ad artistic
02:32.10 Twingy *nod*
02:32.58 pra5ad the next demotivator. just add 'home ownership' to the pic
02:33.02 pra5ad ;) j/k
02:33.31 Twingy I love it!
02:40.20 pra5ad the picnic area on post is pretty nice
02:40.22 pra5ad =)
02:40.33 pra5ad it works(tm)
02:43.48 Twingy hrm?
02:44.14 Twingy I got that cordless phone at work
02:44.33 Twingy I should have all my calls forwarded to it so I can just hang out at the pavillion
02:44.37 Twingy with my lawn chair
02:45.27 Twingy I'll have to pick one up tomorrow
02:45.35 Twingy I need a garbage can for the garage as well
02:48.01 pra5ad u need to move ur work area to the pavillion
02:48.49 Twingy that is the best idea you've ever given me
03:46.42 ``Erik http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html *boggle*
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16:18.07 pra5ad http://www.keiichianimeforever.com/anime/onlineanime/index.html
16:18.10 pra5ad ^_^
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17:54.28 pra5ad wow it's hot
17:54.34 pra5ad 100F outside or what
17:56.05 pra5ad 94% humidity
17:59.36 archivist your not in england then
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060417

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060417

01:55.39 *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:04.12 PKMOBILE guess what kermit is up to!
02:17.55 pra5ad tribes?
04:15.55 Twingy what a damn exhausting weekend
05:49.09 Twingy 14 hours of run time, will have to let it run over night
12:14.35 ``Erik the bitch didn't tell us
13:21.29 brlcad o.O
17:31.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to doug howard for his work during the very beginning stages of archer development.
17:34.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
17:34.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: special thanks to Mark Butkiewicz of SURVICE for his considerable input
17:34.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: regarding the look and feel of archer as well as prioritizing what features to
17:34.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: add in the allotted time. he has also remained actively involved in the windows
17:34.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: port effort as well as general collaboration, support, and suggestions for the
17:34.35 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: package as a whole.
17:42.52 ``Erik oh my, archer is being snarfed into brlcad, or are we supporting it all third party, yo?
17:48.26 brlcad archer was already snarfed in a couple months ago
17:48.35 brlcad it's fully contributed
17:48.45 brlcad i.e. not 3rd party
18:36.35 ``Erik whoa
19:28.39 archivist no change there then
19:30.06 brlcad pretty much
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060418

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060418

03:02.53 Twingy 2nd coat of polyurethane is dry
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14:32.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test for USE_FORKED_THREADS in configure
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17:00.29 digitalfredy #freenode
17:00.32 digitalfredy epa
17:00.38 digitalfredy sorry
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060419

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060419

05:10.11 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=diegomot@200.119.94.224)
05:10.48 digitalfredy hello docelic DTRemenak pra5ad guu ibot @brlcad @ChanServ CIA-9 archivist Twingy ``Erik
05:12.08 digitalfredy i read in the cvs / doc to like pass your doc to docbook and y like helps in this work
05:12.34 Twingy talk to brlcad/leaner when he is on
05:14.02 digitalfredy Twingy: ok tanks
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06:32.16 brlcad digitalfredy: glad to hear it, love to talk to you more about it in a few hours
07:11.53 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
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20:03.11 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
20:03.41 brlcad pong
20:04.13 brlcad so you're interested in converting the docs to docbook format..
20:04.30 brlcad how familiar are you with docbook?
20:04.35 digitalfredy brlcad: i like help whit the doc in
20:04.38 digitalfredy yes
20:05.14 digitalfredy brlcad: is the doc in pdf ?
20:05.28 brlcad depends which documentation you're referring to
20:05.34 brlcad there's a lot of it, in various formats
20:05.53 digitalfredy i read the IDEAS in the cvs/doc
20:05.54 brlcad most of the documents on the website are available in pdf and msword format
20:06.43 digitalfredy ok say me who is the most important for begin
20:06.50 brlcad the documentation in /doc is a mix of text, troff/nroff, manpages, etc
20:07.44 brlcad the most important "first" one is probably the "Overview of BRL-CAD" on the website, http://brlcad.org
20:08.12 brlcad 1, 2, and 3 there are by far the most frequently read
20:08.38 brlcad 1 is available in html, doc, pdf
20:08.56 digitalfredy brlcad: i can made all in one book
20:09.02 brlcad 2 and 3 are available as pdf and doc
20:10.04 brlcad digitalfredy: yeah, how it's all organized is a quesion in itself
20:10.24 digitalfredy you can send me the .doc's to my mail?
20:10.25 brlcad one massive "book", multiple books, articles, etc
20:14.14 digitalfredy brlcad: send me the .doc's my mail is digitalfredy@debiancolombia.org
20:18.17 brlcad digitalfredy: how about you start with just the overview one first and we see how well that works out
20:19.32 digitalfredy brlcad: ok i start with overview
20:20.23 brlcad are you familiar with tldp?
20:20.50 brlcad they have several docbook processing tools of interest, as does the gforge project
20:20.51 digitalfredy the linux documentation proyect
20:20.58 brlcad yes
20:21.33 digitalfredy and docbook is used for the linux kernel documentation
20:21.34 brlcad the gforge project has tools in their cvs that automates the processing of docbook quite nicely
20:23.17 brlcad yeah, docbook is great for technical docs -- just hard for editors expecting a decent editor :)
20:23.17 digitalfredy can you send me a reference of any document in particular?
20:23.49 brlcad gforge would be the first I suggest looking at, their entire documentation is docbook
20:24.38 brlcad http://gforge.org/plugins/scmcvs/cvsweb.php/gforge/docs/docbook/?cvsroot=gforge
20:25.56 brlcad they did theirs as one book, with the major sections as chapters if I remember
20:26.15 brlcad i'm slightly more inclined to produce multiple books
20:26.55 brlcad but even one book would work just fine
20:27.48 digitalfredy brlcad: i think in one book for becouse is best for example for made a package brlcad-doc
20:31.03 digitalfredy brlcad: i can to be slow becouse not speak englis veri well, if you not understand me, say
20:32.38 brlcad te entiendo perfectamente ;)
20:33.09 brlcad por supuesto ;)
20:33.09 digitalfredy y yo matandome
20:33.13 brlcad jeje
20:33.20 digitalfredy bueno esto hace mejor las cosas
20:33.55 digitalfredy brlcad: tengo que hacer una diligencia pero regreso en un rato
20:33.56 brlcad aunque hago errores todo el tiempo, lo hablo mucho mejor que lo escribo
20:34.14 brlcad esta bien
20:34.32 digitalfredy brlcad: en que pais estas? usa?
20:34.44 brlcad si
20:35.18 brlcad son las 4 y media
20:35.51 digitalfredy solo tenemos corrida una hora yo tengo las 3:40
20:36.22 brlcad me imaginé cuando te fuiste anoche
20:36.48 brlcad ta bien
20:36.49 digitalfredy bye
20:36.52 brlcad ciao
20:36.57 digitalfredy chao
20:37.01 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.158)
22:28.39 ``Erik ummm, soy un perdedor, or something
22:28.40 ``Erik :D
22:28.57 ``Erik <-- learned all his spanish from taco bell and beck songs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060420

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060420

00:06.24 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:52.50 PrezKennedy so i heard this rumor about putting up a tribes server or something
00:53.22 PrezKennedy its craziness!
00:53.32 brlcad i've said it like a dozen times
00:54.10 PrezKennedy eh then he'll never stop playing
00:54.18 PrezKennedy he'll stop showing up for work
00:54.30 brlcad like he'll ever stop anyways
00:54.53 PrezKennedy he only stops tribes to play generals or red alert
00:55.03 PrezKennedy and a lot of the time he just leaves it running
01:23.25 PrezKennedy well setting up a tribes 2 dedicated server would be considerably easier if i still had linux installed
01:23.30 PrezKennedy but that was 2 hard drives ago
01:54.28 Twingy I want a toughbook
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12:31.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: Added declaration for trim-to-bezier curve conversion routine, and updated uv in trim test function to accept a list of trims instead of a surface (since the trims are preprocessed.
12:34.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: added support for preprocessing trims into beziers.
13:09.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_bezier.c: support for preprocessing non-bezier trims to bezier trims
13:12.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_knot.c: logging updates
13:29.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_trim.c: modified rt_nurb_uv_trimmed to support a list of trims instead of a surface (to support the preprocessing)
14:01.34 *** join/#brlcad Alon (n=c0738410@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:01.42 Alon hi
14:02.23 Alon I'm a ver very very newbie to brl-cad.. where can I find getting started docs? I am using linux and have got it instaalled and somewhat working
14:10.17 ``Erik http://www.yikers.com/video_dick_cheney_takes_out_the_easter_bunny.html
14:26.09 brlcad <PROTECTED>
14:31.05 brlcad documents 1 2 3
15:09.35 brlcad they're also not provided during the install, they should be
15:15.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am slave_build.sh):
15:15.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Make sure directory has been created (slave_build.sh) or wait for it.
15:15.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Indicate that the regression test is done, but not whether it was successful or not. (Makefile.am)
15:20.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (9 files):
15:20.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Updates to make it easier to check the status of a regression test. Each test
15:20.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: now reports its notion of whether it succeeded or failed.
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21:45.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (8 files): Fixed various sh/csh syntax errrors.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060421

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060421

00:42.40 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
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11:39.55 Maloeran In case you happen to see this question, pra5ad, what is your preference between Verilog and vhdl, if you don't mind me asking? After learning the basics of both, I'm still unsure which way to go
12:02.59 Maloeran I have the vague dream of implementing raytracing hardware, a fpga. I really like the level of parallelism found at the hardware design level, it's both challenging and has nice potential for high performance
12:11.17 archivist hmm opensource 3D hardware graphics engine
12:12.30 Maloeran Open-source, possibly... Are you part of the Brl-Cad team? If yes, would you mind me asking what your first name is?
12:12.48 Maloeran Just to associate the correct nicknames to the people I know
12:14.12 archivist Im external in UK
12:14.37 archivist Dave Caroline
12:15.21 Maloeran Right, we haven't met :)
12:21.17 archivist unless you were at Dayton hamfest a few years ago
12:52.24 ``Erik wasn't there a group trying to make an "open source" video card (regular ogl&fb style) ...
12:56.51 archivist I seem to remember something but the I suppose nvidia et al keep producing faster stuff overtaking opensource efforts
12:59.14 pra5ad no preference here
13:03.15 pra5ad heh the only thing i can say from my experience is that abel is dead
13:03.17 pra5ad :)
13:04.58 Maloeran That couldn't possibly work too well, ``Erik, I doubt the funding matches Nvidia's
13:05.22 Maloeran On the other hand, if the raytracing techniques are released under a license that forbids commercial use... :)
13:06.39 archivist is there ray tracing in the commercials that could be used
13:07.10 Maloeran I have one written right here, faster than anything else
13:09.53 Maloeran So pra5ad, you use both equally? Is each better for some tasks?
13:13.48 ``Erik hey, I didn't say it was a good idea or that it had a chance, just that something like that existed at some point :) (and it's goal wasn't to compete with nvidia, more like commoditizing the low/mid end of the market so drivers for non-ms os's wouldn't suck)
13:14.48 archivist using fpga for the job enables future proofing as well
13:15.39 ``Erik eh?
13:16.14 ``Erik the fp in fpga means it can be updated in the future, as long as the new design doesn't use more cells than the fpga has...
13:16.39 ``Erik now an asic would mean new masks, new runs, and all the old ic's are garbage...
13:17.06 ``Erik one of these days, I'm gonna dust off the fpga experimentors board sitting in my cabinet
13:17.29 archivist fpga things usually cost to much for commodity cards though
13:18.00 ``Erik depends on the price of the card and size of the run
13:18.22 ``Erik a lot of commodity small run equipment uses fpga's cuz it's cheaper than asic...
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18:30.27 digitalfredy brlcad: overview is aprox 80% in docbook xml :)
18:32.05 digitalfredy bye i have to go
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18:36.41 brlcad sweet
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060422

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060422

01:15.51 Twingy running 2 miles in the cold rain, not fun
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060423

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060423

02:49.52 ``Erik ls
02:49.54 ``Erik woops
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060424

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060424

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17:19.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: need to quantify exactly what sort of dxf-g enhancements john added, but it's a something so as not to forget
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060425

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060425

00:05.31 pra5ad heh presentation was most excellent
00:05.46 Twingy did you score any chicks?
00:05.54 pra5ad all married
00:06.03 Twingy I'd say it was only mediocre then
00:06.34 pra5ad my grade isnt a function of the # of chicks i score with
00:06.41 pra5ad so id say it was excellent
00:06.43 Twingy you're in the wrong school then
00:06.57 pra5ad yea, i should be at NJIT
00:06.57 Twingy what do you think erik?
00:07.04 Twingy no no, NJIT it horrible
00:07.08 pra5ad duh
00:07.09 Twingy they have no womenz
00:07.21 Twingy the 12% women they DO have are in architecture
00:07.32 Twingy and like 0.1% in comp sci/math/physics
00:07.44 pra5ad when u find the school that has hot women in their cs program, let me know
00:07.59 Twingy depends on how long it takes me to start one
00:08.28 Twingy mmm, pizza is almost done
00:08.42 Twingy then a blissful night of coding
00:08.59 pra5ad hmm pretty much done with this semester
00:09.02 pra5ad so i should be coding too
00:09.29 Twingy whatcha gonna write
00:09.38 pra5ad website
00:09.44 Twingy *yawn*
00:09.59 pra5ad in java, that uses jini
00:10.03 pra5ad hah!
00:12.15 Twingy bbl, pizza
00:25.05 ``Erik there were a couple hot chicks in my cs program :/
00:25.11 ``Erik also; married != un-scorable.
00:26.24 ``Erik y'know, apples mach manpages ... the very very very few that exist suck.
00:26.56 ``Erik at least on fbsd, there was awesome docs and on leenewx, the proc fs was well documented.
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19:29.24 sick-digitalfred brlcad: ping
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060426

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060426

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060427

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060427

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02:40.17 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
03:14.20 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
04:18.06 ``Erik heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060428

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060428

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05:35.30 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
05:42.08 digitalfredy brlcad: writeme a mail digitalfredy [at] debiancolombia.org
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10:15.11 MaDrense hi ppl
10:15.18 MaDrense just download the windows version ..
10:15.39 MaDrense but in mged when i open one of the samples i get nothing in the GUI ?
10:31.11 MaDrense hello ?
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15:00.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/pipe.c: wdb_export frees the pipe structure; consequently, do not touch it afterwards
15:10.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot_include.c: crash with MSVC 6.0 release build because of an access behind bot->bot_facearray boundaries
15:13.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Optional compile-time support for using GMP or CLN for arbitrary precision arithmetic
15:14.27 brlcad d_rossberg: for the g_bot_include bug -- what was crashing?
15:14.33 brlcad and you've been busy.. excellent ;)
15:16.24 brlcad i'm asking as i was going to update the NEWS file with the description of how that bug is exposed to users (unless you want to)
15:18.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed crash in release build
15:19.39 d_rossberg brlcad: the bug was in rt_bot_piece_shot_* i.e. it's a potential crash for every bot raytrace
15:22.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: forgot to add my name
15:24.23 brlcad d_rossberg: i gathered as much, did you actually experience a crash too?
15:28.35 d_rossberg yes, i got crashes with the libraries i'm using for my viewer
15:29.34 d_rossberg debugging the relese build (with line numbers as the only debug information) led me to g_bot_include
15:31.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: it's a stack, most recent go on top
15:32.14 brlcad nice catch
15:35.30 d_rossberg it looks like i was the first one who uses mk_pipe
15:36.26 d_rossberg consequently, nobody will notice the changes in libwdb
15:55.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: Rossberg with utf-8 character
16:55.36 brlcad or maybe not, but something odd for sure
16:57.26 brlcad ah, looks like it is right, I'm just set on ISO-8859-1
17:04.42 ``Erik heh, sean, if you had unsaved data on your desktop, you don't have it anymore :) o.O
17:43.31 ``Erik they're gonna fuck with building power over the weekend (I believe leaving it off most of it), so all the 'puters are supposed to be unplugged o.O
17:43.41 ``Erik hope you don't got too many perishables in the fridges
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18:24.22 Maloeran IRC services getting a segfault? Ah! :}
18:40.30 ``Erik whuddya expect, man, it's freenode... :)
20:44.25 ``Erik det
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22:45.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: working on clone/tracker; EF importer plugin is on the asap list; mingw is delayed; added toy jeep; unpush idea for later.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060429

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060429

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03:01.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/ (toyjeep.asc Makefile.am): add an toy barbie (tm) jeep (tm) modeled in 2005 over the course of a day by a group of students attending a BRL-CAD (tm) training course at SURVICE
03:02.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: default units to millimeters instead of aborting if the units specified are unknown
03:05.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: if the _GLOBAL object has attributes set other than units and title, write them out. also make sure the units are not (null) before writing them out.
03:10.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: let the user know if there are no differences and be more specific on difference when external representations differ.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060430

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060430

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03:20.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: fix the mged logging so that it actually works now and consistently writes events. clean up the whitespace while refactoring the closure of a db to f_closedb() consistently.
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06:55.42 pra5ad women..
06:55.50 pra5ad why cant they make up their minds..
06:55.54 pra5ad sigh
20:22.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (dxf-g.c dxf-g.1):
20:22.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Added support for ELLIPSE entities, added a bit more logging, updated
20:22.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: man page.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060501

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060501

02:17.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: comments, remove dead new proc creation code (there's a func for that creating a wdbp function object)
02:19.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.1:
02:19.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: update the manpage with more up-to-date information and details. mention that
02:19.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: current format is a tcl script, that the conversion to ascii isn't strictly
02:19.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: necessary any longer since v5 format is portable, and that the ascii format
02:19.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: should not be used by external codes.
02:20.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.1: initial manual page for the dbupgrade command, basic usage info
02:22.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: add support for carriage returns so old ascii files copied from windows parse correctly. use a little less emphatic emphasis on error (!!!)
02:22.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: ws, indent
02:23.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: add new dbupgrade.1 manpage
05:02.28 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.156)
05:02.56 digitalfredy brlcad: hello
06:26.49 digitalfredy brlcad: hello, i like to you see the docbook xml work for overview
06:27.18 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.156)
08:25.28 brlcad ack
08:25.49 brlcad he keeps picks horribly inconsistent times :)
08:29.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:29.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: fixed g2asc export of null units bug. there was a situation where the current
08:29.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: units could not be determined and a (null) was export to the ascii file. this
08:29.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: would halt an asc2g. if the units cannot be determined, they are not output
08:29.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: (i.e. no (null)) now.
08:31.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:31.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: g2asc now saves additional _GLOBAL attribute values. previously, only the units
08:31.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and title were exported so that if a user had manually added additional
08:31.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: attributes they were not being saved, now they are saved as attr commands in the
08:31.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: ascii format. (a situation where this was important was where a 'disclaimer'
08:31.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and 'description' attribute were added in addition to the title.
08:33.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:33.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: g_diff reports more detail whether differences exist. if the external forms are
08:33.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: being compared, it will report whether the lengths differ or the contents
08:33.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: (previously was an unknown either/or difference). also g_diff will summarize
08:33.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and actually say that it found no differences instead of just ending a statement
08:33.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: like there is something more like the following:
08:36.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:36.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: fixed g_diff attribute comparison issue. when doing a g_diff, attributes were
08:36.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: not being compared in order if the db command fails to tclify the exported
08:36.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: version resulting in a binary 'these objects seem to differ' when they did not.
08:36.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the tclification was improved so it can perform a proper ordered attribute
08:36.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: comparison under more cases.
08:38.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
08:38.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: updated the g2asc manual page with format details. the manpage still talked
08:38.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: about it being necessary for platform independent conversions, language and
08:38.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: details were updated to note that this is no longer the case (that the binary
08:38.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: will work just fine). also mentions that binary and ascii are open specs,
08:38.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: though ascii is subject to deprecation change without notice whereas the binary
08:38.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: is not. also that the ascii should not be relied upon by external developers but
08:38.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added dbupgrade manual page. one didn't exist
08:41.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:41.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: fixed asc2g bug reading files with carriage returns. if you attempted to run
08:41.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: asc2g on a .asc file that came directly from the windows platform and had
08:41.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: embedded carriage returns ('\r'), it would incorrectly parse the v4 I units
08:41.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: version string dumping out a wierd undecipherable overlapping error (printing
08:41.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the carriage return), now it handles them correctly.
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13:49.49 ``Erik hm
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14:50.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
14:50.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: john continues on his dxf-g rampage with manpage enhancements and additional
14:50.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: support to dxf-g for ELLIPSE entities. earlier he added support for LWPOLYLINE,
14:50.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: MTEXT, LEADER, ATTRIB, SOLID, and ATTDEF entity states -- all grouped into one
14:50.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: news entry for dxf-g enhancements.
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16:52.53 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
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16:56.27 ``Erik heh
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17:05.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Minor tweek to anchor the edit panel north
17:07.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Minor tweek to anchor the edit panel north
17:11.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Temporarily (i.e. until this functionality is available) removing the "Compact" menu item when viewing BRL-CAD geometry. Minor mods to reflect change in the tree widget.
17:18.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. Mods to support multi-select and cut-n-paste.
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17:28.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add images to support future functionality (i.e. multi-select and cut-n-paste)
17:30.04 brlcad digitalfredy: pong!
17:30.09 brlcad been missing you all week
17:30.12 digitalfredy hey
17:30.32 digitalfredy i made the xml for overview
17:30.43 digitalfredy are only one problem
17:31.25 digitalfredy brlcad:
17:31.27 brlcad excellent
17:31.33 digitalfredy the problem is in the
17:31.57 digitalfredy hoja de estilo but is not a big problem, fine
17:32.28 digitalfredy brlcad: who is your mail for send you the xml and html
17:33.32 digitalfredy and i was missing becouse i was sick
17:33.41 brlcad te lo envie en un mensaje privado, lo tienes?
17:34.35 digitalfredy brlcad: si
17:35.07 digitalfredy brlcad: i made one book
17:35.26 digitalfredy but i think to is best made a only one big book
17:35.37 brlcad and the reasoning for that? :)
17:36.26 digitalfredy wait a moment and send you a link for review a structure in other book as example
17:38.14 digitalfredy brlcad: see http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html
17:38.30 brlcad i was reading up last week on some work done with xinclude to get modular docbook files
17:38.37 digitalfredy the preface is the overview
17:38.48 digitalfredy and every part is a book
17:38.56 digitalfredy and all is a big book
17:39.41 brlcad ahh, that's better.. the "main book" is really a set of books yes?
17:39.55 brlcad with a book for each 'part' of the set
17:40.12 digitalfredy yes
17:40.19 digitalfredy yes
17:40.28 brlcad that approach sounds reasonable
17:40.39 brlcad have you worked at all with Xinclude?
17:40.44 brlcad (i haven't)
17:41.09 brlcad speaking of which is referenced in that book: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
17:41.19 digitalfredy brlcad: in spanis, can understand
17:41.56 brlcad pregunte si has usado Xinclude? (yo no..)
17:42.14 digitalfredy no pero puedo revisarlo
17:42.39 brlcad lo refiere en aquel libro aquí: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
17:45.12 brlcad eso te deja separar libros en secciones y usar los en diferente lugares manteniendo un archivo xml valido
17:45.54 brlcad i'm just not sure whether it's really worth it or not.. i'll ask some of my other xml expert friends to see what they know ;)
17:46.14 digitalfredy haaa si creo que se
17:46.52 digitalfredy para crear por ejemplo un archivo con cada parte y luego en otro hacer el include de todos los archivos?
17:55.32 brlcad si, pero sin usar entity references
17:55.49 brlcad ahh.. xsltproc --xinclude.. excellent
17:56.01 brlcad so that should be the way to go..
17:59.39 digitalfredy brlcad: cant understand well
17:59.58 digitalfredy brlcad: esta es el camino a seguir o algo asi?
18:05.57 brlcad si!
18:06.10 brlcad sounds perfecto
18:06.51 digitalfredy begin the big book?
18:08.30 brlcad mirando lo que me enviaste.. un momento
18:10.17 brlcad wow
18:11.52 brlcad digitalfredy: me parece asombroso!
18:11.59 digitalfredy brlcad: rewrite the overview like preface
18:12.01 brlcad that looks great, really great
18:12.02 digitalfredy yes?
18:12.07 digitalfredy emacs
18:12.11 brlcad :)
18:12.14 digitalfredy i love emacs
18:12.26 brlcad hehe
18:12.36 digitalfredy fine
18:12.54 brlcad seriously, that is like exactly what I was hoping for
18:14.26 brlcad te puedo mandar los otros documentos grandes si quieres ya
18:14.36 digitalfredy yes
18:16.03 digitalfredy brlcad: who is the licence for the doc?
18:16.13 digitalfredy for put it in the book
18:16.48 brlcad all the new documentation is dual-licensed
18:19.19 brlcad y eso quiere decir que el documentation esta cubrido por el GFDL o si quieren el GPL
18:19.55 brlcad From BRL-CAD's COPYING file in CVS:
18:19.59 brlcad Unless otherwise denoted, all of BRL-CAD's documentation is made
18:19.59 brlcad available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL)
18:19.59 brlcad or, at your option, under the terms of the GNU General Public License
18:19.59 brlcad (GPL) as published by the Free Software Foundation. Several older
18:19.59 brlcad documents (e.g. published by the U.S. Government prior to being
18:20.02 brlcad released as Open Source) are in the public domain.
18:20.28 brlcad el ultimo frase se puede eliminar para eso
18:23.18 digitalfredy ok
18:25.14 digitalfredy ``Erik: fine
18:25.20 digitalfredy lesson 1
18:25.32 digitalfredy hello in spanish is hola
18:25.39 brlcad the copyright, different from the license should probably be something to the effect of:
18:25.43 brlcad <PROTECTED>
18:25.45 brlcad <PROTECTED>
18:25.46 ``Erik heh, I know that much :)
18:25.54 brlcad and tequila
18:25.58 brlcad means..
18:25.59 brlcad tequila
18:26.00 ``Erik mmm tequila
18:26.17 ``Erik mew-ee bway-no
18:26.18 ``Erik I mean, uh
18:26.19 ``Erik O:-)
18:26.29 digitalfredy aguardiente :)
18:26.40 brlcad jej
18:28.50 digitalfredy brlcad: All Rights Reserved?
18:29.14 ``Erik and post tequila, http://www.killsometime.com/pictures/Picture.asp?ID=246
18:33.21 brlcad digitalfredy: it's a standard disclaimer you find along with just about any english copyright -- authorship rights are explicitly desired instead of giving it away without any limitiation.
18:33.52 brlcad that in turn is extended by the GFDL/GPL which say specifically what is given away under what restrictions
18:34.35 digitalfredy yes some Rights Reserved
18:34.56 digitalfredy no all
18:36.07 brlcad it's not a contention point -- for the book, the phrase could probably be left out so long as it includes the COPYING details somewhere as well
18:37.33 brlcad and still the original author does retain all rights -- recipients are bound by the license and copyright law
18:37.59 ``Erik talked to a lawyer from the eff to see if it was good that way (since they have a "nomodification" policy, they wanted a copy of the tex file for re-use and asked it to be put under their doc license, heh
18:38.01 ``Erik )
18:38.42 brlcad they wanted the tex-formatted gpl language provided under the gfdl?
18:38.49 brlcad that's funny
18:39.17 digitalfredy brlcad: i thik to cc is best licences for documentation
18:39.55 digitalfredy but no problem first the first
18:40.01 digitalfredy first put the doc in docbook
18:40.02 brlcad what benefits does it provide over the current dual-license? :)
18:40.39 ``Erik http://explorerdestroyer.com/ o.O
18:40.54 brlcad i don't have religion on it, i frankly don't care a whole lot about the license on the docs -- it's hard enough to find people that are willing to work on documentation, let alone argue on how free to make the docs ;)
18:41.31 brlcad i'd just as likely make all the docs public domain or CC as the current gpl/gfdl
18:46.17 digitalfredy brlcad: i have to go, speack after
18:46.36 brlcad sounds great.. i'll send you the docs
18:47.00 brlcad thanks for working on the docs.. very cool
18:47.15 brlcad i'll have to get your name and contact details at some point for announcements
18:47.21 brlcad and credits
18:47.26 digitalfredy ok
18:47.42 digitalfredy i send you a mail
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060502

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060502

08:02.34 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-104-44.balt.east.verizon.net)
13:47.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/toyjeep.asc: they are trademarks of mattel and daimler-crysler
13:50.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: a new toy barbie jeep model was added, include a nice write-up of where the model comes from, the training class that produced it, and general overview of what was involved.
14:34.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: archer gets support for multi-select and cut-n-paste from doug howard
14:35.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: utf-8 version of Daniel's last name..
14:38.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal/Makefile.am: missing a handful of new files
14:41.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/Makefile.am: missing a handful of new files
14:56.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-var.1 g-var.c Makefile.am): Added a vertex array exporter
14:58.35 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: Added g-var executable to ignore list
15:05.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/NEWS: g-var news
15:21.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: prasad silva (arl) makes his first contribution with a new g-var tool
16:38.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large)/ (56 files): src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large) was renamed/moved to Crystal_Large, deleted
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060503

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060503

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15:52.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Added code to potentially activate the "Accept" button etc. when tabbing to another entry.
15:54.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added version info to the bottom of the "About" dialog.
15:55.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Removed version info.
16:20.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: john noticed that sys/stat.h is needed for S_IRUSR and a few other mode flags now being used if DEBUG is enabled
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18:23.26 lakcaj hi
18:43.35 digitalfredy hi
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21:21.33 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: moved archer version info to bottom of about dialog
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060504

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060504

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03:31.02 digitalfredy brlcad: have a question about the document, are you in the chanel?
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18:16.41 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060505

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060505

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060506

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060506

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060507

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060507

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22:50.30 cad436 hello
22:51.14 brlcad howdy
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22:51.55 Adamdaniel Hi
22:51.55 brlcad and he returns
22:52.15 Adamdaniel I was wondering if someone could help me with my Windows BRL cad installation.
22:52.26 brlcad "possibly"
22:52.29 Adamdaniel I have it up and running, but it says no database
22:52.31 brlcad it depends on what the problem is
22:52.33 brlcad ah
22:52.44 brlcad you need to specify a database :)
22:53.11 brlcad (geometry files are known as geometry database files)
22:53.24 brlcad so opening a database means, you need to open a file
22:53.39 Adamdaniel thanks.
22:53.49 brlcad you can do that by going to Open on the file menu or typing: opendb test.g on the command line
22:53.54 Adamdaniel I downloaded the tutorial (am nub obviously)
22:54.04 brlcad welcome
22:54.57 Adamdaniel Of the open source programs I looked at, BRL-Cad looked the most promising for a nub like me.
22:55.17 Adamdaniel I want to learn cad, I have a design I want to market.
22:55.20 brlcad it's in full production use, and has been around forever ;)
22:55.33 brlcad free doesn't hurt too
22:55.41 Adamdaniel amen to that.
22:56.16 Adamdaniel Is the tutorial from the site a good place to start, or is there another that might be better?
22:56.27 brlcad it's got a pretty hefty learning curve (as just about every CAD system does), but it's pretty featured
22:57.05 brlcad the "Introduction to MGED" on the website is meant to be fairly comprehensive (and not "short", though it can be completed in a day)
22:57.37 brlcad be sure to check out the MGED Quick Reference Card to have on hand
22:57.56 Adamdaniel is someone in this channel most of the time too?
22:59.06 Adamdaniel I appreciate you answering my questions, I am sure I will have more, but I am off to do some reading :0
22:59.08 Adamdaniel Thanks.
22:59.12 brlcad most of the time, yeah
23:02.15 animall how well does the x86-64 linux version work?
23:02.36 animall or will some of the features hang up on 64bit linux?
23:03.18 brlcad it should work just fine
23:03.54 brlcad if there are any problems, please report them (sf.net/projects/brlcad under the bugs section or here)
23:03.54 animall good, now if some of the movie players would get with the program and support 64 bit, i would be real happy
23:04.14 brlcad brl-cad has worked 64-bit for a couple decades ;)
23:04.52 brlcad if there's any problems, it's usually opengl-related (which can be compile-time disabled with no loss in functionality)
23:04.52 animall yep, remember reading that, just didnt know if there might be any hangups because of the memory mapping difference on x86-64 between amd and intel chips
23:05.19 animall np on that, already modified the driver so it wont give me fits
23:05.22 brlcad nah, x86-64 is one of the primary systems used
23:05.33 animall good
23:05.36 brlcad only problems that come to mind are some freebsd 6 threading bugs
23:05.41 animall ouch
23:06.07 brlcad but from everything I've seen debugging, it looks like a bug in freebsd land, not in brl-cad land
23:06.25 animall I've still got to reread the docs, but I'm planning on seeing how well it likes dual core threading with em64t in a week or so
23:06.27 brlcad (it's specific to amd64 freebsd)
23:06.35 animall ah
23:06.40 animall lower memory mapping ability
23:06.44 brlcad linux should be fine
23:07.09 animall cool
23:07.36 brlcad and again, if it's not -- if you run into a problem, please do report it -- those are rather high priority issues
23:07.36 animall i've got some blueprints i want to get setup before the paper decides to fall apart on me
23:08.03 animall np
23:08.33 animall i just have to make sure i dont bring any of the proprietary stuff out of work into it
23:08.56 brlcad there's a nice "brief" intro available from a user here: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1447646&forum_id=362509
23:09.05 animall http://people.redhat.com/blizzard/monkeys.txt
23:09.07 animall oops
23:09.15 animall wrong option selected
23:09.27 brlcad heh :)
23:11.10 animall i was thinking of setting it up to handle some 3d data modelling for some of the test systems at work
23:11.35 animall sort of an extra validation mechanism for code changes on development applications
23:13.14 brlcad interesting
23:13.28 brlcad what area of focus is that? machining?
23:13.42 animall circuit / chipset design
23:13.46 brlcad ah
23:13.50 animall validation tools inputing data
23:14.17 brlcad mm.. reminds me that I need to get back to work on the automatic knapsack packing library
23:14.23 animall and using the input data for 3d modeling of any areas to visually identify potential problems
23:14.28 brlcad for optimal packing solutions
23:14.40 animall sounds painful
23:14.51 brlcad not horribly
23:15.13 brlcad there was a great research paper that effectively solved the problem for regular shaped objects in a static space
23:15.45 brlcad with brl-cad, I believe that can be extended to arbitrary shapes fairly easily so you get nice tight packing
23:16.10 brlcad for things like machinging out of a piece of material, optimally placing components onto a circuit board, etc
23:16.21 animall yeah, could be benificial, esp in distributed computing on large scale projects
23:17.21 animall time for me to hit the books again, got to review some perl for tomorrow
23:17.49 animall thnx on the assistance :)
23:17.53 brlcad no problem
23:18.03 brlcad thanks for the interest
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060508

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060508

00:11.26 pra5ad sean
00:11.39 pra5ad whats with wendy getting all agitated about g-var
00:12.05 pra5ad apparently it was part of a ttm
00:14.36 ``Erik ahhhhhh
00:54.16 animall stupid question, on make benchmark
00:54.41 animall is the output needed for comparison with other systems?
00:58.46 brlcad animall: depends, but generally no
00:59.29 animall ok
00:59.55 animall im taking the source into work tomorrow, ill run it on one of the machines in development
00:59.56 brlcad animall: the output is useful to see how stable the numbers are, how rapidly it converges, how many iterations it took
01:00.08 brlcad but the summary VGR count is what ultimately matters
01:00.22 brlcad and that is both reported in the output and saved in text file named 'summary'
01:00.31 animall k
01:00.44 brlcad be sure to run ./configure with --enable-optimized --disable-debug for best performance
01:00.44 animall ill see how much of a punch quad dual cores can hammer out
01:00.54 animall running that now
01:01.13 animall hehe, make the engineers freak out
01:01.35 brlcad fwiw, 'make benchmark' is installed with brl-cad as a tool named 'benchmark'
01:02.16 brlcad what sort of numbers are you getting now?
01:02.35 animall 1109.09 843.08 1170.35 933.45 856.26 4.29 819.42
01:02.57 brlcad eek
01:02.57 animall single core Celeron D in em64t with 800mhz fsb/ ich5 southbridge
01:03.02 brlcad ahh
01:03.27 brlcad that must be unoptimized i take it?
01:03.27 animall and a vanilla FC5 2.6.16-1 kernel
01:03.31 animall correct
01:03.59 brlcad the last number there, 819 was the VGR count
01:04.10 animall i've still got to update the southbridge and northbridge microcode, DFI fragged up and shipped the wrong mircrocode out on this board
01:04.17 animall k
01:04.22 brlcad that's a linear metric, so a machine with 800 and another with 1600 means the second is 2x performance
01:04.36 animall k
01:05.06 animall not too bad for a board/cpu/ram that ran me like $300
01:05.34 brlcad you can get all sorts of interesting results tweaking compilation options, of course too -- default is usually just a handful of non-platform-limiting options geared towards gcc
01:05.36 animall next box is going to run around $6K
01:06.20 brlcad you can tack on CC and CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS/LDFLAGS to configure and it will carry then through as well
01:06.22 animall gcc does have some quirks
01:06.27 animall ok
01:06.59 animall I havent looked at the code yet, I might later on this summer after I finish some driver upgrades at work
01:07.35 brlcad optimized vs default will generally result in about a 2x increase (diff between -O0 and -O3 -ffast-math)
01:07.50 animall ok
01:08.10 brlcad for gcc at least
01:08.28 brlcad icc and mipspro have their own interesting behaviors
01:08.32 animall lesson learned on -O3 is that cross platform compiles turn into a blithering mess
01:08.38 animall icc is a pain in the butt
01:08.50 brlcad heh
01:08.50 animall i have to work with it everyday
01:09.06 brlcad i like icc's dual-pass optimization mode
01:09.26 animall that is good, esp if the system has the correct microcode
01:09.32 brlcad gcc has one too, but not nearly as nice (at least not nearly as familiar)
01:10.11 animall dual pass in gcc is a bit more of a cpu hog, and on a system with 600+ users for doing development, it has a tendancy to tick off people
01:10.49 brlcad 600+ users on a system, eeww
01:11.10 brlcad hopefully a 512 processor altix or something
01:11.32 brlcad something massive smp at least
01:12.14 animall quad xeons with HT
01:12.26 animall its due for an upgrade this year though
01:12.46 brlcad that's quite a load of users for a system that "small"
01:13.09 animall yeah, but it holds the load, mainly for test scripts and compiling code changes
01:13.10 brlcad are they not cpu intensive users? I could eat that much up easily on a daily basis
01:13.15 animall majority of the load is vim
01:13.19 brlcad heh
01:13.35 animall mainly its maybe 30 people killing the cpu
01:14.26 brlcad so 'only' a load of about 50 all the time ;)
01:16.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: geometry example of building 238 is pushed back
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01:21.49 brlcad hello akin
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01:22.21 brlcad goodbye akin
01:27.03 animall 1403.47
01:27.17 animall run with optimized
01:27.33 animall pretty much about it on the load
01:29.06 animall run 3 w/ --disable-debug
01:30.28 brlcad that's looking more reasonable
01:31.00 brlcad --disable-debug doesn't really give you much except a slight hint of memory coherence
01:31.07 brlcad --enable-optimized gives the bang
01:34.31 animall freed up some mem also, maybe that will help
01:35.17 animall model name: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.53GHz
01:35.54 animall ive got the same model with dual core waiting an ICH7 board with a i965 northbridge
01:39.49 brlcad free'ing up memory shouldn't be a big difference unless you actually needed to swap to exec
01:40.12 brlcad the models intentionally are not large to avoid memory paging timings
01:40.42 brlcad what will be a factor is L1/L2 cache sizes and register efficiency
01:42.24 pra5ad heh bldg 238
01:42.44 pra5ad including the trap doors and croc pit?
01:42.56 brlcad but of course
02:20.16 animall 1569.93
02:20.32 animall --enable-optimize --disable-debug
02:20.35 animall not bad
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18:34.10 Maloeran Question for anyone familar with BRL-CAD and its raytracers, what is the use for VOXELs? Is raytracing support required for scenes that mix triangles and voxels?
20:24.40 pier logout
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20:31.09 digitalfredy brlcad: ping
20:41.11 brlcad digitalfredy: pong
20:41.19 digitalfredy hello
20:41.28 digitalfredy i'm reading your mail
20:42.51 brlcad Maloeran: i presume you mean the 'vol' volumetric primitive?
20:45.32 brlcad The vol primitive is a basic (mostly unoptimized) volume primitive that supports visualization of cell data like you might get from a CT or MRI scan. implemented for medical visualization primarily, though it has other uses.
20:46.41 brlcad not sure what you mean by "is raytracing support required for scenes that mix triangles and voxels" .. BRL-CAD supports raytracing of arbitrary collections of primitives
20:46.46 brlcad necessarily has to
20:51.23 Maloeran Right. The SOW for developing high-performance raytracing software for BRL-CAD requests support for VOXEL datasets, that was unexpected
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060509

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060509

00:07.29 Twingy I added the voxel stuff :}
00:07.55 ``Erik heh
00:08.22 Twingy but I'm sure Lee will tell you he added it :)
00:09.48 ``Erik hahha
00:10.47 Twingy forizzle
00:11.14 ``Erik he doesn't seem to appreciate it when you call him on that shit in public forum... but he seems to swallow it and move on.
00:11.17 ``Erik O:-)
00:11.31 Twingy ask me if I care :)
00:11.45 ``Erik I already know your answer, bitch
00:11.59 Twingy good, homofaggatus
00:12.09 ``Erik *I* intend to keep calling him on it, if people care to join, groovy
00:12.51 ``Erik credit given where credit is due, I support the concept of a meritocracy, and I'm willing to make some people look like dumbasses to support it. :D
00:13.00 ``Erik if only I did anything worth merit *sigh*
00:13.32 Twingy I've mentioned your name on contributing to those cluster build system stuff every muves meeting for the last month
00:13.46 ``Erik thnx
00:13.46 Twingy "Erik Greenwald did this... Thanks to Erik we have this. Erik just got blah working, etc."
00:14.09 Twingy lee hasn't brought your name up once iirc
00:14.11 ``Erik I'm sure other parties are attempting to claim that I am 100% commited to muves
00:14.20 ``Erik if I'm not there, he won't
00:14.23 ``Erik it's not his nature
00:15.16 ``Erik I vagually recall some meeting a few months ago where he said he did something and I corrected him, noting that you did it, and he had to agree, but he seemed... uncomfortable. :)
00:15.44 ``Erik I have a suspicion I'm gonna piss him off a lot over the next few months.
00:16.18 Twingy I suspect everyone who's no passive and agreeable with him annoys him
00:16.26 ``Erik I don't mind correcting people in public O:-) dixie got a smackdown infront of the division, tyvm
00:17.57 ``Erik but lee is generally open to correction and he generally wants to do 'the right thing', even if he wants to claim credit, so that makes him less odious than ... some other individuals.
00:18.27 Twingy he doesn't learn very quick then :)
00:18.35 ``Erik speaking of "some other individuals", are you going to try to have a discussion to push that toughbook?
00:18.47 Twingy nope, not important
00:19.12 ``Erik hehehe, I think he's gotten away with enough that he has a bit of a god complex going, it'll take a good series of rapid smackdown to make an impression :)
00:19.24 Twingy go for it :)
00:19.53 ``Erik I think your toughbook request IS important... not because of the piece of hardware, but because of the policy and the blind adherence to it
00:20.11 Twingy for somone that cares, sure
00:20.17 ``Erik you got the letter, bitch, go nail it to the church door.
00:20.18 ``Erik :D
00:20.30 Twingy I stopped caring :)
00:20.36 ``Erik bah
00:20.53 Twingy I am collecting a pay check
00:21.13 Twingy I can buy toys to get real work done on the weekend
00:21.34 ``Erik well, true, I'm there on that, but if I were getting a hw order cockblocked because of general idiocity, I'd feel at least some responsibility to raise a nasty stink on it
00:22.18 ``Erik where oh where is that hot 25yo redhead nurse...
00:23.13 ``Erik if you want, tell me what else is on the order with that toughbook, and I'll swing by and raise a stink for you... heh
00:27.17 Twingy not important
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03:00.09 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
06:15.01 Maloeran Ah Justin :), so you need voxel support somewhere? I just wouldn't have expected that
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10:21.12 dpy hi
10:21.15 dpy anyone around ?
10:39.24 dpy does anyone here know how to get this effect in opengl: http://www.cadcamnet.com/Online/03/nov/04nov-sw1hsSE_15.jpg
10:41.16 archivist I would draw that in solidworks or solid edge
11:56.19 dpy yes
11:56.26 dpy but I want to render it in opengl
11:56.39 dpy the whole point is... I save the model as xgl
11:56.46 dpy then import it in my program
11:57.03 dpy but then I want to render it again as solid edge does
12:49.56 pra5ad hah
12:50.05 pra5ad gooch shader from the orange book
12:50.13 pra5ad cept the cool color is red
12:50.18 pra5ad nothing special there
13:31.51 dpy pra5ad: where I can download example code that does this ?
13:34.55 dpy do you know ?
14:07.58 Maloeran What is troublesome specifically? Rendering the outlines?
14:10.40 Maloeran You could render the contours as a GL_LINE_LOOP, with a little tweak on glDepthRange or glPolygonOffset to prevent Z fighting issues while still getting mostly accurate Z buffering ( so you don't see lines rendered for culled surfaces )
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14:53.40 dpy Okay, I'm now manually trying to detect edges
14:54.06 dpy and I will create a 3d outline model for this
14:54.27 dpy but what I was afraid off is happening, I can't seem to find faces belonging to edges
14:54.58 dpy http://rafb.net/paste/results/0efP5u82.html
14:59.54 Maloeran Mmm, ruby. The "external" outline is simply defined as separating triangles facing towards or away from the eye
15:01.11 dpy no I need all edges
15:01.19 dpy not just the "outline" of the object
15:01.56 dpy e.g. when you look straight down at: /\
15:02.13 dpy neither will be facing away from the eye, but there still is an edge
15:02.32 Maloeran Right, I'm just mentionning that this outline is different and dynamic as the eye moves. For the rest... I suppose I would group triangles by connectivity and similar normals up to a breaking point
15:03.10 dpy so what I'm doing right now is, I calculate all face normals, then flag all edges with 2 face normals that are angled > than some threshold
15:03.13 Maloeran A good robust solution is going to be much more complex than what you have there
15:03.53 dpy can't I just combine both ?
15:04.33 dpy combine the view direction dependend outline (the one you suggest above) with the detected edges
15:04.33 Maloeran It depends what you want. Do you want any contour to pop up if you have a sphere for example?
15:04.50 dpy depends on the threshold
15:04.56 Maloeran Of course, I'm just saying that the "external" outline is to be computed at run-time, the surface contours can be precalculated
15:05.14 dpy anyway
15:05.28 dpy currently I can't even find two faces belonging to the same edge
15:05.29 dpy grrr
15:05.57 Maloeran You'll need to build yourself some table for this, first of all
15:07.26 dpy I'm doign so, didn't you see the pastebin ?
15:07.50 Maloeran Only briefly
15:07.51 dpy I take the sum of the two vertices belonging to the edge as a key into a hashtable
15:08.03 dpy because summation is commutative
15:09.02 Maloeran That doesn't sound right. 1+5 = 2+4, you want to find another triangle that has the same vertex indices but in the opposite order
15:10.02 Maloeran The "external" outline calculation is a common need for stencil shadows, if you want to get some reading material on the first part
15:10.41 dpy stencilling is extremely slow on my ATI 7500
15:16.57 Maloeran I'm just saying the connectivity and silhouette determination problems are the same, if you are looking for some guide on that part
15:17.24 Maloeran After that, you can worry about precalculating surface contours
15:19.50 dpy oh okay, so you are suggesting I'm going the wrong way around ?
15:20.57 Maloeran First of all, you certainly need to gather connectivity information, and what you presently have won't work :)
15:24.39 dpy you mean, I need a better way to turn two vertices into a key
15:26.27 Maloeran Correct. If you got the pair 2,4 for example, you need to find the pair 4,2 to get the connected triangle and not just some pair with a sum of 6
15:26.53 dpy Maloeran: it depends
15:27.04 dpy if they are floats you will not have that many collisions
15:27.20 dpy but I already started a new class: MatchKey
15:27.21 Maloeran Floats? We are talking about vertex indices, right?
15:27.52 dpy yes, now we are
15:28.41 Maloeran Right, the same indices that would be used by glDrawElements() for rendering
15:29.49 dpy http://rafb.net/paste/results/sthQy870.html
15:31.26 Maloeran Generally, indices will be in the reverse order. You can still build a single key for fast lookup by the way
15:31.47 Maloeran Such as A*IndiceCount+B where A or B is always the lowest indice of the two
15:59.20 Maloeran Any better success?
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16:19.30 dpy Maloeran: no, I don't get any matches
16:53.46 dpy I got ittttttttttttttt
16:53.48 dpy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:54.27 dpy you gotta see this (step 1)
16:55.53 dpy http://www.dwarfhouse.org/mtoele/edge_image.png
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17:01.52 Maloeran Nice dpy :)
17:02.22 dpy if I adjust the threshold, it also puts strokes on curvatures
17:02.52 Maloeran Are you just looking for sharp edges, or building surfaces up to a certain treshold for the whole surface?
17:03.13 dpy no I need two more things: 1: the outline using your pointers, 2: combine this with the shaded model and avoid Z buffer errors
17:03.48 Maloeran Ah, right
17:03.49 dpy Maloeran: ultimately I want that yes, but for now I'll settle with edges only
17:04.34 dpy but I know what you mean, a sloped surface that stays under the threshold all the time should also have a stroke somewhere I think
17:04.57 dpy but now it's food time
17:05.02 Maloeran Yes, it does in the curvy door picture you pasted a while ago
17:05.36 dpy up to now, it was pretty much doable
17:05.48 dpy and I wasted again too much time looking for source code to spoonfeed me
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19:53.40 brlcad /db/ goto -50
19:56.28 brlcad dpy: if you have brl-cad geometry, there is an edge raytracer for that sort of shaded edge rendering
19:56.51 brlcad an example is in the screenshots section even iirc.. ah yes: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=4470
20:09.08 Maloeran Raytracing edges, curious
20:12.09 brlcad yep, pretty nifty
20:12.11 brlcad http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
20:13.31 brlcad utilizes identification of unique regions, local neighbor information, and curvature to determine whether the current pixel is an edge or not
20:14.01 Maloeran I was just typing a long question, which included how I was guessing it was done :)
20:14.30 Maloeran So it precalculates edges for specific groups and determine if the ray lies on an edge during raytracing
20:14.43 Maloeran within the border thickness anyhow
20:14.49 brlcad not really
20:15.03 Maloeran Okay, so I didn't get it
20:15.35 brlcad it uses the hit point details of the neighbors, they come back during the raytrace as reporting that you hit a given region/object
20:15.52 Maloeran Ah I see
20:15.59 brlcad if you go from one object to another object on two neighboring pixels, there's an edge there
20:16.28 brlcad or if the distance along the ray is significantly different, you've got an edge
20:16.39 Maloeran Simple enough
20:16.45 brlcad or if the curvature between two neighboring pixels is significantly different, you've got an edge
20:16.59 brlcad yeah, not really a complex idea, works pretty well
20:17.04 Maloeran *nods* Thanks
20:17.33 Maloeran Completely unrelated, I don't suppose Lee hangs around here?
20:18.00 brlcad he shows up once or twice a month sometimes, never hangs around for very long
20:18.37 Maloeran Okay. I was wondering a couple things about the SOW for raytracing software but it can wait
20:19.02 brlcad wouldn't be a good idea to discuss that here regardless
20:20.21 brlcad this channel and/or irc in general is not really appropriate for topics that concern ARL business directly
20:20.50 brlcad s/business/business, people, places, tasks, etc/
20:21.03 brlcad grr, ibot_
20:21.14 Maloeran :) Understood
20:23.34 brlcad woot, fixed
20:23.43 brlcad s/fixed/should be fixed/
20:23.46 brlcad excellent
20:25.13 pier hi everybody
20:25.19 animall greetings
20:25.47 pier I got last 7.8.0 version on my pc
20:26.29 pier but there must be something wrong with former ones that don't want to work any more
20:26.48 pier I get thi error
20:27.02 pier /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/stable/bin/mged: symbol lookup error: /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/stable/bin/mged: undefined symbol: bu_argv0
20:27.03 dpy brlcad: looks cool, although for now I'm satisfied with my own results
20:27.26 dpy also, I'm too stupid to work effectively with brlcad, I use solid edge for making parts and assemblies
20:30.38 brlcad howdy pier
20:31.20 brlcad dpy: understood, just thought you might like to know that it was there just in case ;)
20:31.57 brlcad pier: odd error.. do you have LD_LIBRARY_PATH or BRLCAD_ROOT set?
20:32.47 pier mmm
20:32.56 pier let's see
20:33.12 pier I noticed I got this error too
20:33.25 brlcad and why is it running /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 if you have 7.8.0 installed?
20:34.01 pier difficult question :)
20:34.41 Maloeran A mismatch of versions between binaries and libraries may have such interesting results
20:34.44 pier when I rename brlcad dir to i.e. brlcad_7.8.0
20:34.53 brlcad eep, don't do that
20:35.11 brlcad a renamed install directory is considered a relocation
20:35.15 pier I wanted to preserve all the old versions
20:35.24 brlcad brl-cad has compiled-in data-search paths
20:35.32 pier ok
20:35.48 brlcad you can override them at run-time with BRLCAD_ROOT, but you shouldn't relocate if you don't have to
20:35.55 brlcad did you compile yourself, or downloaded binary?
20:35.56 pier ok
20:36.16 pier I happened to download binary
20:36.18 brlcad you should NOT have BRLCAD_ROOT (or LD_LIB..) set if you did not relocate
20:36.47 brlcad depending on the platform, for newer versions at least, they will all happily coexist in /usr/brlcad
20:37.07 brlcad there should be a /usr/brlcad/stable symbolic link that points to the last installed
20:37.28 brlcad with each new version installed as /usr/brlcad/rel-7.8.0 for example
20:38.02 brlcad so you only add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path to always use the latest mged for example, or run /usr/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/bin/mged to get that specific version
20:38.26 pier ok thanks very much
20:38.53 brlcad i don't think the mergeable installs were done fro 7.6.4 though.. don't remember
20:38.59 brlcad maybe
20:39.22 brlcad have to see what's in /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 (which I presume WAS /usr/brlcad and you renamed it?)
20:39.52 pier yes
20:40.02 brlcad if there's no symbolic link, then you can leave it as /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 and set BRLCAD_ROOT to that when you want to use it
20:40.49 pier can't I just cd to /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/bin and run mged?
20:41.13 pier no as a matter of fact
20:41.18 brlcad nope
20:41.29 brlcad mged needs to locate several resources in order to start up
20:41.48 pier yes
20:41.50 brlcad it has no idea how to search for them since you effectively "moved" it
20:42.01 brlcad it'll dump out with a gui or other tcl error
20:42.15 brlcad setting BRLCAD_ROOT will make it work
20:42.22 brlcad and/or BRLCAD_DATA
20:42.31 brlcad albeit to a different path
20:42.41 pier ok
20:43.03 pier at least now I know how to deal with it
20:48.37 brlcad there is actually code written that will let mged 'discover' that it was relocated and utilize a relative search ordering priority to try to find if it's resources were also relocated
20:48.52 brlcad the code is just not activated.. needs to be tested more before being made active
20:49.37 brlcad hardly any program that loads resources dynamically find them automatically, involved a nice hack based on where the binary lives on the filesystem
20:52.26 pier ok but with a link it works fine
20:54.21 pier I'll move to 7.8.0 and hopefully finish my new router (got a bit busy with an exam lately)
20:55.56 pier do you think that compiling from the source the code would be better optimized? I mean is it worthwhile compiling now that I see that new version works?
20:58.31 brlcad shouldn't gain you a whole lot really
20:58.35 brlcad but you certainly could
20:59.04 brlcad you could add your own platform-specific optimizations to squeeze another 10% or so performance out
20:59.35 brlcad default distributed binaries are high optimization, but not platform-limited
21:03.23 pier is there a way to get mget pointing to a project dir at startup?
21:06.31 dpy http://www.dwarfhouse.org/mtoele/c_bracketed_servo.png
21:09.07 brlcad pier: what do you mean?
21:09.46 pier the startup windows alwais point to the actual dir
21:09.47 brlcad pier: mged will process a .mgedrc in your home dir on startup, you can add just about any tcl scripting in there
21:09.54 pier azz
21:09.58 pier sorry
21:10.28 brlcad dpy: nifty, though wierd tolerancing issues
21:10.43 dpy what ?
21:10.48 dpy you mean the Z buffer fighting?
21:11.20 dpy self.scale = 1.008; #TODO: more robust way of doing this
21:11.32 dpy I have to find a good way of doing this
21:11.43 dpy I haven't been able to find the "offset" documentation yet
21:16.29 brlcad yep
21:19.18 pier buona notte atutti!
21:19.33 brlcad heh :)
21:19.57 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.236.140)
21:27.47 dpy notte ? isn't it noche or something ?
21:29.22 brlcad ~translate en it good night to you
21:29.37 brlcad ~translate en es good night to you
21:30.08 brlcad tutti is just the familiar tense
21:31.18 dpy ah ok
21:31.44 dpy no he said: good night to all
21:31.46 dpy a tutti
21:32.19 dpy one day I'll learn to speak italian
21:32.27 dpy it just has to wait until I have more time :)
21:33.15 brlcad ~translate it en a tutti
21:34.02 dpy ~translate it en tutti fruti
21:34.03 brlcad hmm
21:34.10 dpy ~translate it en tutti frutti
21:35.09 dpy ~translate it en prego parlare inglese
21:35.19 dpy lol
21:35.22 dpy that's wrong
21:35.36 dpy "please speak english"
21:35.46 dpy ~translate en it please speak english
21:36.44 brlcad literally, i believe it was right
21:37.02 brlcad please is most translations is a form of begging/praying
21:37.13 brlcad prego is first person
21:37.34 brlcad in that order at least, not imperative
21:37.54 brlcad funny either way ;)
21:39.41 dpy yes
21:39.52 dpy but that's where computers always go wrong
21:39.57 dpy the interpretation
21:40.10 dpy computers can't interprete
21:40.42 dpy I've researched it a bit now I understand what information means, and data and that it is not the same
21:40.49 dpy computers transform data, not information
21:40.56 ``Erik impregnate what? huh?
21:41.05 dpy lol
21:41.06 dpy preggo
21:52.42 Maloeran So it doesn't do french or it doesn't like me :)
21:52.45 pra5ad si non oscillas, noli tintinnares
21:55.33 pra5ad blame hugh hefner
21:58.12 brlcad Maloeran: you have to tell it the languages to and from
21:58.20 brlcad ~translate fr en s'il vous pla?t
21:58.44 brlcad pasting that char didn't go so well here
22:00.45 Maloeran Not much better. Anyhow, it's the closest french translation for "please"
22:00.51 brlcad ~translate en fr please
22:01.00 brlcad heh
22:01.14 brlcad cheater
22:01.58 Maloeran Ahah
22:16.40 dpy ~translate fr en s'il vous plait
22:17.22 dpy I guess it doesn't like circonflex or the encoding is off
22:38.32 brlcad i believe it just passes it on to babelfish, so whatever babelfish wants though there is undoubtedly a few encoding conversions possible along the way
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060510

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060510

05:25.51 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.45)
06:24.39 digitalfredy ibot: hello bot
06:25.14 digitalfredy hey ibot is a bot?
08:59.09 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.45)
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15:16.29 *** join/#brlcad dpy (n=marcel@k17242.upc-k.chello.nl)
15:16.41 dpy hi guys
15:46.08 brlcad howdy
15:49.00 dpy hey hoo
15:49.04 dpy I'm fine
15:49.05 dpy you ?
15:57.48 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.202.117)
16:35.37 *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
16:59.47 brlcad pretty good
16:59.56 brlcad busy as ever, but good
17:09.08 pier hi brlcad
17:09.42 pier is advisable to have direct rendering enabled?
17:48.15 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.194.137)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060511

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060511

03:31.47 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.166)
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14:51.07 brlcad pier: direct rendering shouldn't help or hurt, bugs notwithstanding
14:55.09 pier :) thanks
15:03.23 brlcad there's not an expectation that it will be fixed before this weekend
15:03.38 digitalfredy brlcad: hello
15:03.45 brlcad hola
15:04.32 digitalfredy brlcad: need the names of the autor of overview document
15:05.00 digitalfredy and needs they affiliations
15:05.25 brlcad that one is more 'open' to debate, it's been rewritten and modified by many
15:05.31 brlcad no single author
15:05.57 digitalfredy is for put in the docuemt
15:05.58 brlcad digitalfredy: use the same names as volume II for starters
15:06.15 digitalfredy brlcad: ok
15:06.19 brlcad actually, just put Eric for starters
15:06.31 brlcad he wrote the majority
15:07.29 digitalfredy like see the header made at this moment?
15:08.24 brlcad huh?
15:08.53 digitalfredy how can send you a file in irc?
15:09.42 brlcad mm, can /ctcp it or ftp it to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
15:10.37 digitalfredy <PROTECTED>
15:11.14 digitalfredy brlcad: open a priv
15:12.29 digitalfredy i now send files in irc usin the GUI (drag and drop)
15:13.44 brlcad open a priv? you initiate a send, and I will get a notification and can accept the receive
15:15.48 brlcad http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircprimer.html#DCC
15:16.02 brlcad <PROTECTED>
15:16.16 brlcad er
15:16.19 brlcad <PROTECTED>
15:18.15 digitalfredy brlcad: say not valid command
15:18.34 digitalfredy brlcad: weit
15:19.04 brlcad puedes mandarlo por ftp o mandamelo por e-mail
15:19.58 digitalfredy brlcad: sen me /msg any
15:22.23 brlcad lo hice
15:23.32 *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
15:24.39 digitalfredy brlcad: no te llego el ofrecimiento del archivo?
15:25.21 brlcad nope
15:25.34 brlcad "DCC no file offered by digitalfredy"
15:25.42 digitalfredy brlcad: usemos ftp
15:26.28 brlcad ahh.. if you're behind a router, DCC won't work for you
15:26.43 brlcad reverse connection has to work on your IP
15:27.03 digitalfredy not router
15:27.12 digitalfredy i go direct to my ips
15:27.21 brlcad you're on dsl.. there's some router there :)
15:27.25 digitalfredy no
15:27.29 brlcad er, not you..
15:27.38 brlcad that was rogier, just reading the wrong lines :)
15:27.47 digitalfredy i have a single 64k rdsi
15:27.47 brlcad maybe a firewall
15:27.59 digitalfredy rdsi in englis is ..
15:28.32 digitalfredy isdn
15:28.44 digitalfredy red digital de servicios integrados
15:28.47 brlcad ~ping 200.119.94.248
15:28.49 ibot pong 200.119.94.248
15:29.00 brlcad dunno then.. maybe your irc client
15:30.02 digitalfredy can to be a problem in my client (gaim) instaling xchat
15:30.19 brlcad just sent you a request
15:30.37 digitalfredy yes
15:31.09 brlcad that worked
15:31.42 digitalfredy isntaling xchat 23%
15:31.52 brlcad heh
15:33.06 digitalfredy 75%
15:36.07 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.119.94.248)
15:38.59 digitalfredy_ brlcad, you recibe the request?
15:40.21 digitalfredy_ brlcad, ping
15:43.12 ``Erik hehe, sean, http://qdb.us/59744 :)
15:44.57 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.248)
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16:09.11 digitalfredy_ brlcad, ping
16:26.40 brlcad pong
16:26.49 brlcad digitalfredy_: never recibe the request
16:42.34 digitalfredy_ brlcad, recibe the request
16:42.56 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160)
16:44.34 brlcad todavia, no (adonde?)
16:44.57 digitalfredy_ brlcad,
16:45.58 digitalfredy_ digitalfredy_: never recibe the request
16:45.58 digitalfredy_ --- Ofrece overview.html a brlcad
16:45.58 digitalfredy_ <digitalfredy_> brlcad, recibe the request
16:45.58 digitalfredy_ --> pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160) ha entrado en #brlcad
16:45.58 digitalfredy_ <brlcad> todavia, no (adonde?)
16:45.59 digitalfredy_ <digitalfredy_> brlcad,
16:46.01 digitalfredy_ --- Ofrece overview.html a brlcad
16:47.19 brlcad yep, never get the request here, which means it's being filtered somewhere .. it's a known problem for people behind NAT and/or firewalls, not sure what the problem is in this case since you say you're not
16:50.19 digitalfredy_ brlcad, what is the begin year for the copyrigth in the doc?
16:50.59 brlcad you're creating a substantial derivative work by translating to docbook, so this year
16:51.44 brlcad before going open source, the documents actually hold no copyright claim
16:54.37 digitalfredy_ but if the documet is gpl yes have copyright
16:55.17 digitalfredy_ when are much pepole you see
16:55.32 brlcad right
16:55.39 digitalfredy_ (c) year principal autor and others
16:55.50 brlcad that's what i mean about you creating a derivative work
16:56.02 brlcad we do something similar for the source code
16:56.49 brlcad the entire package presently has implicit copyright assignment to "U.S. Goverment" for direct contributions
16:57.13 brlcad you could use that, or retain copyright of your own (since you're creating the derivative work)
16:57.34 brlcad the 'original' authors cannot claim copyright at this point, they can only claim authorship
16:57.59 brlcad as they were all u.s. government funded, public domain work
16:58.08 digitalfredy_ put (c) U.S. Goverment and others ?
16:58.23 digitalfredy_ haaa public domain is other history
16:59.14 digitalfredy_ when y get the doc this is in public domain?
16:59.34 digitalfredy_ if yes i can put a legal notice
17:01.28 brlcad we can talk more about it in a little bit, I have to run out for a little while
17:01.33 brlcad be back in an hour or so
17:01.57 digitalfredy_ brlcad, ok
18:21.48 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160)
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21:07.08 digitalfredy brlcad, ping
21:08.17 brlcad pong
21:08.38 digitalfredy hello
21:09.29 digitalfredy i think to is best speak in spanis about the copyrigt in the documets
21:09.55 digitalfredy is for can understand well
21:11.12 digitalfredy brlcad, fine?
21:12.31 brlcad no estoy seguro que lo puedo escribir tan bueno en espanol, pero lo tratare
21:12.46 digitalfredy bueno
21:13.26 digitalfredy me dices que los documentos tienen doble licencia
21:15.34 digitalfredy cuales son las dos licencias?
21:16.31 digitalfredy brlcad, can understand well?
21:19.38 digitalfredy brlcad, ping
21:21.06 brlcad GFDL o GPL
21:21.18 digitalfredy ok
21:21.36 brlcad y si, los dos necesitan copyright (como se dice copyright?)
21:21.37 digitalfredy gfdl whitout ivarian sections
21:21.46 digitalfredy asi
21:21.51 brlcad heh
21:21.52 brlcad ok
21:22.30 digitalfredy befor the doc arent free
21:22.49 digitalfredy but in the moment of chache always are questions
21:23.24 digitalfredy yo sugiero esto
21:23.47 digitalfredy en cada documeto colocamos el copyright asi:
21:25.08 digitalfredy (c) year_of_firt_publication - year_of_change_to_opensource Army Research Laboratory
21:26.20 brlcad depende en el documento
21:26.37 digitalfredy explicame
21:27.15 brlcad podemos hacerlo asi con el source code
21:27.39 brlcad copyright was obtained on the entire body, and assigned to the government
21:28.01 brlcad pero con los documentos, es un poco m?s complicado
21:30.27 digitalfredy ?
21:30.28 brlcad con los documentos, solo puedes obtener el copyright si hagas una modificaccion significante
21:31.05 brlcad yo pienso que una conversion a docbook cualifica
21:31.20 brlcad heh, damn italian slipping in
21:31.44 digitalfredy what?
21:33.29 brlcad los volumes I II III IV, etc como estan publicados son public domain (no tienen copyright)
21:34.01 brlcad tu puedes venderlos asi mismo si quierias, o cambiarlos como te da la gana
21:34.33 brlcad si hagas una modificaccion grande, tu puedes obtener un copyright a tu version
21:35.03 brlcad con ese copyright, lo puedes hacer un "copyright assignment" a quien quieres
21:35.17 brlcad por ejemplo, al U.S. Government
21:36.02 brlcad el COPYING archivo en BRL-CAD manda que si lo vas a dar un cambio al proyecto que hagas el copyright assignment
21:36.48 brlcad con el copyright, se puede usar el GPL/GFDL/Creative Commons, etc
21:38.03 digitalfredy bueno ya tengo claro lo del copyright
21:38.55 digitalfredy yo respeto mucho las obras de los otros
21:39.02 brlcad tambien podemos mantener los documentos en el public domain
21:39.28 digitalfredy brlcad, si ya tengo eso claro como el agua
21:39.31 brlcad para mi, lo importante es que tenemos una version en docbook :)
21:40.23 brlcad si, por supuesto
21:40.30 digitalfredy en los vol III y IV estan escritos
21:40.36 brlcad tambien tu contribuccion a convertirlo a docbook
21:40.41 digitalfredy ok
21:40.57 digitalfredy y dice las empresas y cargos
21:41.29 brlcad los autores no cambian.. ser autor o no no significa copyright (porque empezo sin copyright)
21:41.40 digitalfredy si
21:42.52 digitalfredy tienes el .doc del overview con los nombres de los autores?
21:42.57 brlcad i like to give credit to any contribution whenever possible for the work that is provided, and preserve that contribution
21:43.10 brlcad quiza..
21:43.13 brlcad i'll look
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060512

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060512

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16:48.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: /dev/null should be in quotes, compiling with --disable-debug.
16:56.39 ``Erik ooh, rsync of cvs repo's on sf, I likey
17:02.30 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060513

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060513

00:12.44 Twingy moderate drop in stocks today
00:53.26 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:58.38 Twingy all state is a rip off
01:58.42 Twingy they want $70/mo more than geico for the same thing
02:02.56 brlcad all hail the gecko
02:03.20 brlcad (i.e. throw the lizard as far as possible)
02:03.38 Twingy you fix those bugs yet? :)
02:17.56 brlcad what bugs? the librt thing?
02:18.57 brlcad that's been in there since I first compiled on freebsd amd64 iirc, looked entirely like a bug in gcc's optimizer or the threading library
02:19.10 Twingy hrm
02:19.33 brlcad if you walk through it in gdb, the stack just goes "poof" mid computation (if you can keep gdb from crashing itself)
02:19.47 brlcad i never got to try a different threading library
02:20.47 brlcad there was a thread on the freebsd bugs mailing list about a threading bug related to amd64 and crashes inside system libraries (which is where the stack was going poof, sprintf and similar funcs)
02:21.40 brlcad this was like 8-12 months ago when first got access to such a configuration iirc
02:23.24 brlcad gdb was almost useless, the only next step I can think of outside of trying different threading library would be to valgrind a simple raytrace and make sure the errors are cleaned up (which has never been done)
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08:51.32 sehh hey people
08:51.54 sehh is brlcad SMP-aware (multi-threaded, etc)?
09:10.42 *** part/#brlcad sehh (n=sehh@88.218.28.143)
09:10.50 brlcad meh
09:10.53 brlcad 'yes'
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060514

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060514

11:18.36 *** join/#brlcad pier_ (n=pier@151.56.213.160)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060515

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060515

00:47.00 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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15:51.31 Servo888 Such a channel does exist...
15:57.31 brlcad heh
15:58.33 brlcad not only does it exist, it's the primary or at least preferred dev forum
15:58.42 Servo888 yah - I didn't know there were any 'developed' 3d cad programs for linux...
15:58.55 Servo888 I'm building it now to see what this is all about
16:01.04 brlcad yeah, brl-cad is the only solid modeling system in production-use available as open source
16:02.43 brlcad there are modelers, some decent renderers, but no cad systems that aren't in their infancy or are academic pet projects, etc
16:31.28 brlcad ~spell tessellation
16:33.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: s/tesselation/tessellation/ typo. add emphasis to the extent of John's dxf importer enhancements
16:35.05 Servo888 Have a quick question... I just finished building brlcad, but can't find the executable... It should be /usr/brlcad/x86_64 - but it's empty.
16:35.39 brlcad what steps did you take?
16:35.56 Servo888 I grabbed a tar ball from sourceforge...
16:35.59 Servo888 the ran ./configure
16:36.02 ``Erik dagnabbit, stupid car
16:36.03 Servo888 and make / make install
16:36.13 brlcad there's also not a single exec, there are hundreds.. :)
16:36.15 Servo888 You know - I didn't use --prefix= though
16:36.27 Servo888 Well the bin directory is full of them.
16:36.29 brlcad if you didn't use prefix, it should be just /usr/brlcad
16:36.45 brlcad what's in /usr/brlcad?
16:36.45 Servo888 yah it's there
16:36.52 Servo888 bin include lib man share
16:36.56 brlcad ah
16:37.03 brlcad ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin
16:37.27 brlcad should see lots of apps
16:37.33 Servo888 yah lots
16:37.34 brlcad 406 or so
16:37.45 brlcad add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
16:37.59 brlcad if you want a good place to start, most start with the GUI modeler
16:38.10 brlcad it's called 'mged'
16:38.27 Servo888 yah gui modeler is fine - but mged is not there.
16:38.45 brlcad ls -al /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
16:39.08 Servo888 hmm wait it's there
16:39.15 Servo888 one sec
16:39.19 brlcad have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path :)
16:39.29 brlcad export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH if you use bash
16:39.33 Servo888 ok
16:39.49 ``Erik any old posix style shell, actually... bsh, ash, ksh, pdksh, ...
16:39.50 Servo888 Ok there we go
16:40.05 brlcad mged is not designed to be discoverable so you know, it requires training
16:40.16 ``Erik sean, fix libbu on amd64/fbsd.
16:40.19 brlcad there is pretty extensive documentation on the website: http://brlcad.org
16:40.34 Servo888 Yah I found that - I'll go through it.
16:40.35 brlcad ``Erik: what part?
16:40.36 ``Erik bitv is all whacked out
16:40.53 ``Erik rt havoc and it seg's, optimized or not
16:41.20 ``Erik (I think it's bitv, it thrashes the stack a little)
16:42.32 brlcad I debugged stack stomping on amd64/fbsd a year ago and all fingers pointed at a thread library bug
16:42.43 brlcad there was a fbsd bug trail about it too
16:42.55 ``Erik hrm, yeah, uhm, kse? or thr?
16:43.04 brlcad thr iirc
16:43.14 ``Erik did you try kse?
16:43.18 brlcad nope
16:43.26 ``Erik at the office?
16:43.28 ``Erik <-- is rdo today
16:43.45 brlcad in fact, I think the build will default to -pthread still too
16:43.58 brlcad though it can be trivially overridden
16:44.11 ``Erik meh, -pthread is old, died during the 5 run iirc
16:44.14 ``Erik mebbe at 50
16:44.43 brlcad my 5.2 still needs it
16:44.58 ``Erik fbsd can do runtime lib remapping, check out /etc/libmap.conf and man libmap.conf
16:45.14 ``Erik ok, mebbe it was 53 or 54 *shrug* I don't recall :) I've been 6 and 7 for a while now
16:45.40 brlcad i was actually hoping the problem would just go away with a upgrade to 6, which i think Twingy did
16:46.12 ``Erik 6.0 stable is what I'm seeing it on (and I did that to that machine), I intend to upgrade 'em all to 61 very soon
16:46.12 ``Erik like this week
16:46.20 ``Erik I have a couple already on 6.1
16:46.21 brlcad regardless, -pthread still just picks up thr on the newer systems iirc, no?
16:46.54 ``Erik um, it picks up pthread, which is mapped... mebbe thr, mebbe kse, mebbe old userland crap, I d'no
16:47.10 brlcad by default, I think it's thr
16:47.44 brlcad yeah, set to libthr
16:48.03 ``Erik anywho, THAT machine seg's on the bitv stuff, which makes the meat&potatoes crap we do not work on the other machine, which means we can't be pushing the diskless cluster approach at this moment
16:48.30 ``Erik and I want the donut eaters using the cluster, darnit :D
16:49.40 ``Erik mebbe I'll explore that tomorrow :-/
16:49.41 brlcad it very well could be that there is some obscure bug being provoked, but it did look entirely threading related last time I tried debugging it
16:49.52 brlcad and gdb was being a bitch
16:50.00 brlcad crashed a lot
16:50.23 ``Erik are you gonna be in office tomorrow?
16:51.31 ``Erik or available via irc? I might have some stupid "how do I run rt like X" questions :D
16:59.15 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160)
17:09.22 brlcad i'm always on irc :P
17:10.35 brlcad ``Erik: a first easy test is to compile the entire package with parallelism disabled, set -UPARALLEL or edit include/machine.h
17:10.52 brlcad to see if it's even threading provoked
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17:56.44 ar3a51 Hi
17:57.40 *** part/#brlcad ar3a51 (n=ar3a51@uelz-d9b8ef33.pool.mediaWays.net)
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18:00.27 ar3a51 sbd here?
18:19.03 brlcad heh
18:19.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: duplicate defines for RED/GRN/BLU
18:22.23 brlcad ibot: onjoin ar3a51 ar3a51: you have to wait more than a minute if you expect/want anyone to answer you..
18:22.23 ibot brlcad: ok
18:43.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: typo, should have been profile not debug -- logic is still wrong though, needs to be redone for --enable-profile
18:53.09 pier brlcad: Phew! Capther 3 done.. Don't call me lazy :) as I've been very busy lately. Deserve a good supper now.
18:53.56 brlcad pier: hehehe
18:54.01 brlcad I'd do no such thing!
18:54.16 brlcad that's a major effort, I'll be making lots of noise about it :)
19:01.52 ``Erik given that it's a volunteer effort, anything at all you do is well above and beyond the normal mere mortal. :)
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19:54.30 pier Ciao a tutti... nite!
20:03.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: jim monte noticed that using a vls here was unnecessary for the Tcl_LinkVar'ing of glob_compat_mode and output_as_return
20:19.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): ugh, removed horrible usage of vls strings for things that can just be string constants. also takes care of a memory leak as the vls was never released. thanks to jim monte for noticing the problem.
22:55.05 ``Erik "we're doing a gig tonight to benefit the victems of last nights gig"
23:18.13 pra5ad mmm fat refund from uncle sam
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060516

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060516

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15:37.33 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/configure.ac: misc changes to get ADRT to build
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060517

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060517

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19:03.53 learner mmm
19:23.00 ``Erik o.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060518

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060518

01:07.38 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
01:07.38 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
02:36.34 *** join/#brlcad PackElend (i=keefejoh@seraph.techwareit.com)
02:36.50 PackElend is any ACAD expert there?
02:43.04 PackElend ?
03:02.39 PackElend anybody there?
12:29.23 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
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12:45.50 archivist fancy someone looking for an etch-a-sketch expert in here
13:33.25 learner heh
13:33.50 learner archivist: depending on who that was, ACAD != AutoCAD
13:34.15 learner but yeah, either way :)
13:45.26 archivist I was thinking AutoCAD !
14:16.31 learner by far more popular, unless you work for GM or defense .. then it depends
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18:44.14 brlcad woot, BRL-CAD Birds of a Feather at Siggraph is finalized
18:45.14 archivist but the other side of the pond for me
18:46.53 brlcad just a short jump and you're there
18:47.32 archivist 3000 miles +
18:48.24 brlcad teensie hop
18:49.53 archivist came accross for the Dayton hamfest many years ago
18:51.36 brlcad heh, you'll fly over for ham.. but not a world-class conference and a CAD get together :)
18:54.31 archivist I had the money then :(
19:20.23 brlcad and ham apparently
19:26.24 archivist ham=radio amateur , not currently licensed
19:27.40 brlcad :)
19:28.05 brlcad i would have
19:28.37 archivist food doesnt excite me much
19:29.02 archivist a grilled chees in a wendys will do me
19:31.03 archivist or a dunkin donut (except for the fat policeman that dumps his polished 45 on the table)
19:34.24 brlcad hmm.. i don't think wendy's serves grilled cheese here..
19:36.14 archivist bah wont come then
19:36.25 brlcad hehe
19:37.22 archivist would love to though and to go to the second hand test gear shops in silicon valley
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20:42.00 IriX64 REGISTER passpass
20:57.59 brlcad heh
20:58.05 brlcad silly torontonians
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060519

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060519

02:01.23 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4308016.sympatico.ca)
02:08.08 pra5ad so do we get ARL shirts for siggraph? or are we too poor
02:09.59 brlcad wth are you talking about
02:10.04 brlcad brl-cad shirts, sure
02:38.12 justin__ pra5ad, how's the I-fund doing :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060521

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060521

06:50.50 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
14:31.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: get rid of the ifdef linux, init some vars used by USE_FORKED_THREADS
15:23.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: merge old and new tops behavior
16:16.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: make sure the curr_dm_list isn't null before trying to close the dm
17:06.48 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4305531.sympatico.ca)
17:07.24 IriX64 dudes...irix build on ftp 192.168.1.108 and dont laff because thats a local ip address.
17:08.20 brlcad IriX64: you have to hang around for more than a few minutes at a time if you want anyone to ever respond.. ;)
17:08.38 IriX64 thanks i will. ;)
17:08.56 IriX64 version 7.8.0 though.
17:08.57 brlcad also, telling us your "local" ip address is useless -- there's no way to connect to that
17:09.10 IriX64 why i connerct to it.
17:09.15 IriX64 connect
17:09.24 brlcad because you're on that subnet, it's a private subnet
17:09.31 IriX64 i have ways ;)
17:09.48 brlcad it's not a mystery, just how IP works
17:09.50 IriX64 says you :)
17:10.08 brlcad says the tcp/ip rfc actually
17:10.58 brlcad if you don't know your public IP address, visit http://whatismyip.com .. it can tell you there
17:11.59 IriX64 lets do it your way, try ftp 69.159.14.171
17:12.04 brlcad anyone connecting to you will only be able to connect to you via that address, and any firewall or router configuration you have in between will have to permit it
17:12.11 brlcad ~ping 69.159.14.171
17:12.19 ibot pong 69.159.14.171
17:16.04 IriX64 what platforms *don't you support?
17:16.58 brlcad no response from an ftp server on that address
17:17.06 IriX64 huh?
17:17.11 brlcad there's not many platforms not supported
17:17.25 brlcad there is just limited resources to make binaries for all of them all the time
17:17.50 IriX64 what binaries would you like, pick one ill work on it.
17:18.35 brlcad the list of platforms on http://sf.net/projects/brlcad are the primaries -- you can see versions that are released for each
17:18.51 brlcad if there is a platform listed that is not 7.8.0, then that would be one to potentially work on
17:19.08 brlcad (except for Mac OS X, it's not updated yet but it has a specific release process)
17:19.23 IriX64 first i better get my ftp working so i can give it to you.
17:21.26 brlcad probably better, you can upload the binary yourself to ftp.brlcad.org to the incoming directory
17:21.43 brlcad that will be much faster
17:21.55 IriX64 you have an incoming, i did not know that sorry.
17:22.15 brlcad no problem, it's not publicized
17:22.44 IriX64 thanks.
17:24.38 IriX64 connection closed by remote host.
17:26.55 brlcad anonymous only
17:27.43 IriX64 doesn't even give the login prompt, just closes.
17:28.34 IriX64 trying to give you sparc-sunos 7.8 and irix 7.8
17:30.56 IriX64 ill go start work on mac OS X m68020 will be architecure
17:31.04 IriX64 chow all
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19:15.01 IriX64 regards once again.
19:15.32 IriX64 on sourceforge you have solaris at 7.4 is that sparc solaris or x86?
19:18.02 IriX64 and your ftp server doesn't connect.
19:21.18 IriX64 ill go with sparc-sun-solaris
19:24.56 IriX64 work to do, i'll be back.
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20:59.16 IriX64 try ftp to 200.200.200.201.
21:01.35 IriX64 apple-macosx is there.
21:01.41 IriX64 version 7.8
21:03.12 IriX64 anonymous login allowed, i couldnt get connected to your ftp site.
21:07.25 brlcad ~ping 200.200.200.201
21:07.34 ibot pong 200.200.200.201
21:08.18 brlcad no ftp server responding on port 21
21:08.36 brlcad ~nslookup ftp.brlcad.org
21:08.52 brlcad try connecting via ftp to that IP address
21:09.00 IriX64 thankyou
21:10.04 IriX64 nothing.
21:10.26 brlcad can you browse to http://ftp.brlcad.org ?
21:11.21 IriX64 no and shouldnt that be ftp://ftp.brlcad.org?
21:11.56 brlcad no, i meant in a web browser
21:12.03 IriX64 either way. zilch
21:12.08 brlcad if you can't reach it in a web browser, there's something else wrong
21:12.41 IriX64 dunno but i tried and it failed.
21:13.05 brlcad ~nslookup toronto-HSE-ppp4306588.sympatico.ca
21:13.18 brlcad is that the IP address you are browsing from?
21:13.27 IriX64 she built and installed just a sec while i tar it.
21:13.37 IriX64 yes thats my address i think.
21:15.03 IriX64 shes tarring.
21:15.36 brlcad you're not on a block list
21:15.52 IriX64 if i am i don't know about it.
21:15.57 brlcad on this end at least, do you have a firewall or proxy that might be preventing your ability to get out?
21:16.13 IriX64 everything else works.
21:16.22 IriX64 just a sec gonna try hobbes.
21:17.53 IriX64 not your problem i cant even connect via ftp to hobbes.
21:18.09 IriX64 thankyou tho
21:20.29 IriX64 soons this finishes tarring ill investigate my problem, do you allow uploads to incoming on ftp.brlcad.org or do i have to be on some sort of list?
21:22.14 IriX64 gonna go have a smoke, bbiab.
21:32.35 IriX64 thats my attempt at sparc-solaris, gonna have a go at x86-solaris, but whats the use if i cant get them to you.
21:32.57 IriX64 make distclean
21:33.04 IriX64 crap, sorry.
21:47.16 brlcad there's no list, it's open to the public
21:48.21 IriX64 thank you if i ever get on i have several things for you.
22:01.56 IriX64 back to work on it, see you later and thanks for the help.
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23:58.55 IriX64 build successfull.
23:59.08 IriX64 still cant get it to you though.
23:59.32 IriX64 try ftp 200.105.200.105 i was stealing someone elses ip before.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060522

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060522

00:02.47 IriX64 or maybe you'll allow a dcc send, i'd dearly like these files to see the light of day.
00:10.48 IriX64 same old same old, can't get anybody to take me seriously.
00:14.23 IriX64 ill visit later.
03:14.07 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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15:12.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: init curr_dm_list to null
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17:31.12 IriX64 is this forum for programming, or user questions?
17:32.35 archivist depends whos here to answer
17:33.00 IriX64 so its safe to say its a mixed forum?
17:35.16 archivist yes
17:35.24 IriX64 make install
17:35.38 IriX64 duh.
17:36.47 IriX64 be back later.
17:47.41 brlcad he's a rather odd fellow
17:55.56 ``Erik must be canadian
19:07.17 brlcad yep
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060523

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060523

01:55.29 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.32)
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18:42.02 ``Erik How do you keep a programmer in the shower all day? Give him (or her) a bottle of shampoo which says "lather, rinse, repeat."
18:42.38 archivist sounds liks a slashdot joke
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060524

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060524

06:52.42 *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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23:12.15 ``Erik pra5ad: yeah
23:16.58 pra5ad when
23:17.12 pra5ad 9am @ post theater?
23:20.20 ``Erik ja
23:31.52 pra5ad gah brlcad cvsroot changed
23:32.30 pra5ad should start reading the sf.net emails
23:32.32 pra5ad :\
23:32.38 brlcad probably
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060525

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060525

00:24.12 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303262.sympatico.ca)
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01:36.38 ``Erik bah, stupid nickserv
01:41.42 Twingy today is a glorious day
02:00.46 brlcad ``Erik: ping
02:01.58 brlcad a particular file server, one that wm is using right now preparing for a major presentation tomorrow, just disappeared
02:03.12 Twingy I can access it
02:03.21 brlcad it just returned..
02:03.37 Twingy it also has an uptime of 3 minutes
02:03.45 brlcad yeah, just noticed
02:03.46 Twingy it must have kernel panic'd
02:04.26 brlcad my phone isn't ringing, so hopefully he didn't notice
02:04.42 Twingy I wonder if samba is doing that
02:04.52 Twingy I don't trust it
02:05.10 ``Erik heh
02:05.13 brlcad possibly, though it's always a kernels fault to panic :)
02:05.28 Twingy samba keeps sliping it a micky
02:05.36 ``Erik is it working?
02:05.43 brlcad it's back up at least
02:05.46 Twingy we just lost like 4 months of uptime
02:06.02 ``Erik it was an update I scheduled to happen WAY AFTER ANYONE SHOULD BE IN THE OFFICE
02:06.04 ``Erik o.O
02:06.10 Twingy oh
02:06.11 ``Erik it's now running 6.1 with updated ports
02:06.35 Twingy I said it once, but I recommend emails to the BND sysadmins when a machine gets upgraded or rebooted
02:06.36 brlcad ``Erik: tell that to wm tomorrow, i'm sure he'll have choice words for you
02:06.50 ``Erik I'd raise a stink about wm not alerting certain sysadmins when they require availability outside of business hours
02:07.01 ``Erik but *shrug* I didn't notify people, so *shrug*
02:07.03 brlcad supposed to be the other way around :P
02:07.10 ``Erik heh
02:07.12 Twingy business hours is 24/7 :)
02:07.14 ``Erik dude, 10pm?
02:07.40 brlcad major deal ma?ana
02:07.45 ``Erik not according to the opm policies, twingy, no one should be in that office after 6pm
02:08.02 Twingy aruge that to chuck and bill :)
02:08.07 Twingy *argue
02:08.13 ``Erik anyways, *shrug* if bill and chuck wig out, I'll deal with 'em tomorrie
02:09.11 Twingy pjt was also trying to get PP slides off it after opm hours yesterday
02:09.27 ``Erik stupid bustedass nickserv, not letting me privmsg
02:09.55 ``Erik trying? it had issues yesterday?
02:10.21 Twingy he forgot to put on laptop before he left for NM
02:10.35 ``Erik heh
02:10.45 ``Erik it had issues?
02:10.53 Twingy no, but if it had been tonight...
02:11.07 brlcad sure takes a hell of a lot longer to encode 43200 frames of video than it does 360
02:11.27 ``Erik bout 120x the time?
02:11.42 brlcad much worse
02:11.57 brlcad 360 was almost instant, less than a second
02:12.01 Twingy 5 hours till pay day
02:12.03 ``Erik erm, 43200/360 = 120
02:12.04 ``Erik o.O
02:12.18 ``Erik is that what's clobbering that old linux machine?
02:12.22 ``Erik the big one?
02:12.23 Twingy I might have to go out for lunch tomorrow
02:12.28 brlcad nah, i'm doing that all local
02:12.36 brlcad don't want nfs to slow it down
02:12.42 ``Erik SOMEONE is beating that machine like you wouldn't believe
02:12.51 Twingy post theater at 9am tomorrow?
02:12.56 ``Erik ja
02:13.03 Twingy !@#$@
02:13.06 ``Erik 2 hours of hurrrrr
02:13.19 Twingy @#$#%!%#!@#^
02:14.02 Twingy I think you should do that on 'vi'
02:14.23 Twingy *meow*
02:15.35 Twingy I did some welding tonight
02:15.49 Twingy I think that 20 amp circuit made the difference
02:15.53 ``Erik heh, with the arcwelder?
02:15.56 Twingy yes
02:16.03 Twingy much improved over last time
02:16.06 ``Erik cool
02:16.13 Twingy last time I was on a 15 amp circuit
02:16.25 Twingy iirc
02:16.36 Twingy I welded two L brackets together
02:16.52 Twingy I can jump on it
02:16.57 Twingy and drop it on the concrete
02:17.45 Twingy I ground the welds and painted
02:17.55 Twingy all in about 10 minutes
02:18.12 Twingy not the prettiest thing, but for 10 minutes it's not bad
02:18.12 ``Erik cool beans
02:18.21 ``Erik pics?
02:18.25 Twingy I'll bring it in
02:18.42 Twingy see if I can get sean to break it
02:18.45 ``Erik heh
02:18.56 ``Erik <-- wonders how clean your pattern is :D
02:19.07 Twingy not very
02:19.18 Twingy it's flat and it's strong
02:19.38 Twingy once I start doing this on a bench
02:19.42 Twingy instead of hunched over on the floor
02:19.48 Twingy I can get a little better control
02:20.37 ``Erik if it does the job, it does the job *shrug*
02:21.05 Twingy I need an air grinder
02:22.40 ``Erik heh, dremel aint' enough for the inside? :D
02:23.00 Twingy pfft
02:23.03 Twingy dremel is a toy
02:23.06 ``Erik you have a regular grinder, right? the ones we used in metal shop, we had a grind wheel on one side and a wire wheel on the other
02:23.17 ``Erik with heavy shields on both sides
02:23.22 Twingy 2 aluminum oxide wheels
02:23.32 Twingy but not designed to fit such an obtuse shape on the wheel
02:23.36 Twingy with the cowling on it
02:23.41 ``Erik right, the inside :D
02:24.21 ``Erik beer good *grunt*
02:25.18 Twingy http://www.grizzly.com/products/g5785
02:26.37 Twingy http://www.grizzly.com/products/h0591
02:26.43 Twingy that micro grinder is sexy
02:27.01 Twingy 56,000 RPM
02:29.27 ``Erik http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1090 and slap a wire wheel on one side, dude
02:30.06 Twingy I have the 8" version of that
02:30.23 Twingy that bracket is bigger than the gap
02:30.36 Twingy it doesn't fit in there quite well
02:30.44 Twingy you have to bust off the cowling
02:30.49 ``Erik take off the lower shelf?
02:30.54 Twingy that would work
02:31.03 Twingy but silly every time you want to do something
02:31.07 Twingy a hand grinder is ideal
02:31.44 Twingy I'm going to add another 4 feet onto my work bench I think
02:32.17 Twingy or wait until I build a work shed out back
02:35.33 Twingy looks like I'll ride scooter to work monday
02:35.41 Twingy helmet arrives tomorrow
02:37.29 ``Erik um
02:37.35 ``Erik monday is a holiday
02:37.40 ``Erik ...
02:37.56 Twingy tuesday then
02:38.00 ``Erik I mean, you can ride your scooter in if you want, but, ...
02:38.00 ``Erik :D
02:38.12 Twingy I think my mom will be here monday
02:38.18 ``Erik why not friday? work at home?
02:38.25 Twingy so I'm sure she'll remind me not to goto work
02:38.30 Twingy telework
02:39.00 ``Erik I'm productive. o.O
02:40.44 Twingy how's the CASE?
02:41.13 ``Erik heh
02:43.16 Twingy break time
03:03.16 pra5ad ok.. Lost finale
03:03.19 pra5ad so very confused
03:37.09 scanf can I create assiciative ISO standard drawings from precise hybrid geometry models entirely with brlcad
03:37.13 scanf ?
03:38.03 scanf s/assiciative/associative/
03:40.52 scanf I wonder if anyone here even knows what that meant...
03:49.42 Twingy the great thing about standards is there's so many to choose from
03:56.37 scanf I'll remind the customer of that point.
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06:26.56 scanf ok, thanks... I think I know what I wanted to find out.
06:27.00 *** part/#brlcad scanf (n=scanf@46.177.233.220.exetel.com.au)
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12:25.23 brlcad g'morning rogier
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15:47.08 roshambo who knows how to work oed
15:48.54 roshambo When i'm using mged, and go to the Edit menu, and do Matrix selection...
15:49.12 brlcad it's basically the command line version of doing that in the gui
15:49.27 roshambo right, i'm getting to the question
15:49.50 brlcad just how in matrix edit, you have to select the combination/path, and then select the "leaf" -- you have to specify two sides of a path for oed
15:50.03 roshambo when i finally select my region, where everything is illuminated, the path is listed as /Foo.r/__MATRIX__/blah.c/foo.s
15:50.34 roshambo now how to do the same with oed
15:51.05 roshambo anything with __MATRIX__ gets rejected
15:51.26 roshambo so i only end up illuminating blah.c/foos by invoking oed Foo.r blah.c/foo.s
15:51.33 brlcad yeah, __MATRIX__ is just letting you know where the matrix is going
15:51.40 brlcad doesn't really have anything to do with the path
15:51.41 brlcad HOWEVER
15:51.57 brlcad the left hand and right hand paths are listed to the left and right
15:52.07 brlcad and oed wants to know the lhs and rhs
15:52.17 brlcad "left hand side", etc
15:52.30 brlcad so: oed /Foo.r blah.c/foo.s
15:52.43 brlcad will apply a matrix on blah.c in Foo.r
15:53.29 brlcad also, just for convenience, the command line "reject" and "accept" commands might be of use the more you get into command line editing
15:53.54 roshambo i get that, but that only illuminates foo.s, not all of Foo.r
15:55.03 brlcad if you want to apply a matrix over Foo.r, you'd have to put Foo.r on the right hand side
15:55.12 brlcad i.e. oed / Foo.r/blah.c/foo.s
15:55.40 roshambo trying now
15:55.51 brlcad similarly, to get foo.s, oed /Foo.r/blah.c foo.s
15:56.09 brlcad just depends on exactly what you want to transform/rotate/etc
15:56.16 roshambo thanks a bunch
15:56.19 brlcad no problem
16:41.21 ``Erik *belch*
17:08.06 archivist fart
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18:32.13 brlcad heh
18:34.54 archivist delightful children
19:00.37 pier Chapter four done :)
19:00.56 pier gonna end this up by the end of the millenium
19:01.12 archivist or die first
19:01.40 pier ;)
19:02.08 pier I simply can't... unless tome two is completed :)
19:56.41 brlcad :)
19:57.03 brlcad sweet
20:32.31 pier notte a tutti :0
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060526

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060526

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18:03.19 ``Erik heh, interesting nick o.O
18:06.12 Twingy hmm
18:06.24 ``Erik 'sup, twiggly?
18:06.33 Twingy getting ready to release isst as beta
18:07.01 Twingy just finishing up some pango stuff
18:07.51 Twingy then I'll check it into cvs on forge
18:08.20 Twingy damn it's humid out
18:08.52 Twingy oh, read this real quick and tell me what you think
18:09.21 Twingy http://www.fedsmith.com/articles/articles.showarticle.db.php?intArticleID=740
18:09.35 Twingy that's 3.1% for all fed employees right?
18:11.58 Twingy $XX,XXX - Item 12A 2005 Base Pay x 2.10% general increase($Y,YYY)
18:11.58 Twingy $ZZ,ZZZ - Item 20A 2006 Base Pay ($XX,XXX + $Y,YYY)
18:11.58 Twingy $WW,WWW - Item 20B 2006 Base Pay x .2000 staffing supplement
18:11.58 Twingy <PROTECTED>
18:11.58 Twingy $GG,GGG - Item 20/20C (total of Items 20A + 20B)
18:11.59 Twingy <PROTECTED>
18:12.28 Twingy that 2.1% seems... wrong
18:16.37 Twingy W and N are the same
18:31.21 Twingy http://de.fishki.net/pics9/podbor82_09.jpg
18:32.26 archivist kitten "Hey thats my mum your eating!"
18:33.46 andr34s that is incredibly funny
19:51.49 *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.216)
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23:43.32 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060527

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060527

01:31.58 Twingy ...and back to isst
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09:51.09 roshambo i'm running Win2k, and the mged command window is not letting me copy and paste outside, any help?
09:51.30 roshambo (i can't paste to notepad for example)
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18:07.15 IriX64 want a chuckle? do a /ver on me.
19:25.52 *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303784.sympatico.ca)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060528

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060528

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13:12.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING:
13:12.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: make it more clear that the package as a unified work is GPL though separate
13:12.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: portions of the package are released under different licenses. refer to the
13:12.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: development control structure and refer to HACKING. provide a point of contact.
13:21.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING:
13:21.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: add a new section on developer responsibilities outlining what is expected of
13:21.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: them. add details on header organization, usage of the K&R indentation style
13:21.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: (aka java/gnu style), and routines in libbu that should be used for portability
13:21.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: reasons. more on the coding style in general.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060529

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060529

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060530

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060530

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22:06.45 pra5ad sigh..
22:09.38 ``Erik O.o
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060531

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060531

00:38.58 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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17:34.38 ``Erik never pull the cord on a self-inflating raft while in a phone booth.
19:07.42 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
19:20.47 brlcad that's good advice
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22:08.54 justin_ I have good advice
22:09.10 Twingy Never ask an officer to make a decision.
22:09.35 Twingy It's like telling a windows machine not to crash.
22:24.24 ``Erik hah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060601

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060601

00:37.52 Twingy All aboot the pentium's werd
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07:28.20 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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12:50.40 *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:51.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to remove the expand button when in "Basic" mode. There's also a minor tweak of the aboutDialog's size.
12:57.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c:
12:57.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: do not close a mapped file while the database instance is still in use
12:57.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: as db_clone_dbi does not increment dbi_mf->uses
13:50.54 brlcad rossberg: i think i see the problem with just what you've said, but would it not be better to increment dbi_mf uses instead of not closing it?
13:51.24 brlcad otherwise uses is .. useless ;)
13:54.54 brlcad dbi_uses is only incremented in db_open, so it should be safe to increment mf->uses there on the dbi clone
13:59.03 rossberg brlcad: i'm not sure but i think the handling of mf->uses is ok
13:59.35 rossberg dbi_uses will be incremented in db_clone_dbi too
14:00.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_submodel.c: remove bad commented-out increment of the dbi_uses. it might benefit to just clone the dbi, but seems unnecessary for a plot routine
14:00.35 brlcad the handling of mf-> uses is okay until you clone the dbi, no? :)
14:01.17 rossberg without clone the whole thing is trivial
14:01.19 brlcad the issue is perhaps that the mapped files are globally shared
14:01.42 brlcad so cloning the dbip doesn't give you a new open mapped file descriptor
14:02.21 rossberg no: cloning only increments the reference counter (+ something else)
14:02.33 rossberg this is for garbage collection
14:02.46 brlcad right, on the dbi
14:09.40 rossberg mf->uses counts references to a mapped file and dbi_uses counts references to a dbip
14:11.05 rossberg consequently adding or removing a reference to a database instance does not change the references to a mapped file
14:11.27 rossberg it is still the same database instance which refers to this file
14:14.20 brlcad and that seemed like a bug to me -- adding or removing a reference to a database instance could conceivably change the number of references to a mapped file
14:15.09 brlcad i think it'll work either way just because how mapped files are these global entities (especially if you just don't free them), just uses memory that could potentially be released
14:16.43 rossberg but this are all indirect references (as the are higher level references via rtip too)
14:18.20 rossberg it may be more clear if you think of dbi as an object
14:19.45 rossberg independent of the number of references to this object, it is still only one object
14:23.51 rossberg btw, it looks like the true purpose of db_clone_dbi is the registration of an additional client
14:51.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: allow for clientless cloning and closing of dbip instances where only the uses count is of interest. no need to stash null clients even though the ptbl will record them, just ignore them.
14:54.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: avoid incrementing the dbi_uses counter directly -- do a clientless clone of the dbip instead
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20:14.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: gah, reduce the massive WIN32 block to just the section that mattered so that kill() is not invoked on a bu_bomb().. should eventually contain a WIN32-esque method for killing a parent process gracefully ala kill()
22:37.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: avoid passing additional format arguments to fprintf() to avoid potential buffer allocations. very nominal benefit, but can conceivably help with certain crashes and implementations of fprintf().
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060602

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060602

01:23.05 justin_ it verks
01:37.47 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:57.34 Twingy this CASE package is taking entirely too much time
02:58.05 Twingy to think I may have to do this again *shudder*
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13:28.34 Twingy hrm, both lcd panels are now broke
13:28.50 Twingy good thing I had 4 in the house
13:41.47 brlcad darn skippy
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14:15.48 Twingy humph
14:16.42 Twingy you see that email about spending?
14:22.53 ``Erik ja
14:22.54 ``Erik :/
14:28.38 Twingy perfect timing on alexis
14:28.59 Twingy with all the resistance I have faced
14:29.12 Twingy it surely would not go through if things were a month or two behind where they are now
14:36.53 ``Erik heh, I d'no about perfect timing... deferred to the last possible moment, maybe.
14:37.05 ``Erik Hopefully the current operating orders don't alter anything.
14:43.16 Twingy indeed
14:43.22 Twingy I need to figure out how to do cell plots in s2
14:44.05 ``Erik heh, there're two people who've done 'em up on this floor, dude *shrug*
14:47.18 Twingy 3 no?
14:47.48 ``Erik ummmm, mark and ron? who else?
14:48.32 Twingy prasad?
14:48.53 ``Erik he has? (also; he's in key west, dude)
14:49.07 Twingy I've been there twice, fun place
14:49.21 Twingy the airport is hilarious
14:49.24 Twingy it's like a closet
14:49.28 ``Erik I think he plans on swimming to cuba to escape the project
14:49.40 Twingy hah
14:49.42 ``Erik you mean it isn't an umbrella stand next to a dirt field? hehehe
14:50.45 Twingy is mark in?
14:50.52 ``Erik I saw him earlier
14:51.04 Twingy I wonder if they transfered is new line yet
14:51.15 ``Erik probably
14:51.38 ``Erik our bc is useful in chasing minor details like that to completion, as long as no thinking or decisions are required
14:51.48 ``Erik O:-)
14:52.11 ``Erik staying in for lunch?
14:55.19 Twingy I'm at home :)
14:56.14 Twingy but lunch does sound like a splendid idea, bbiab
14:56.17 ``Erik oh, heh
14:56.33 ``Erik bitch
14:56.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/spdi.sh: using == is not portable
15:11.53 Twingy <PROTECTED>
15:14.23 Twingy Wet Bulb!
15:31.29 ``Erik twinky: ron believes xcellbrowser is the tool, which looks at the .fr
15:58.08 Twingy k
16:01.33 Twingy I may have found a room-mate for $375/mo week days only
16:07.44 ``Erik cool
16:15.05 ``Erik You are in a geeky room. Exits are to the North, West, and Down. You see a hungry Erik. He bellows "GIT IN MAH BELLY!"
16:30.22 brlcad go d
16:39.00 Twingy wield tire iron
16:39.09 Twingy bludgeon milton
16:39.26 Twingy get loot
16:43.27 ``Erik he has loot?
16:43.44 ``Erik I thought he spent it all on guns and bullets and deer tags
16:43.57 Twingy I'm sure he's got some jew gold
16:44.00 Twingy :D
16:44.03 ``Erik hahaha
16:44.06 ``Erik damnit, cartman!
16:44.13 Twingy hand it over bitch!
16:44.49 ``Erik I don't wanna pay bills anymore. :(
16:44.54 Twingy me either
16:45.11 Twingy I need to get my truck paid off
16:45.54 Twingy then you'll need a ferrari
16:50.02 ``Erik I'll need a bigger garage
16:50.54 ``Erik france only has a couple days less vacation a year, maybe I'll go there and intimidate them with the combo of my german heritage and american arrogance/cowboyism :D
16:51.30 ``Erik ok, scratch that idea
17:04.31 Twingy get the jew gold, no more bills
17:08.13 Twingy I think I'm done my CASE today
17:09.28 ``Erik I hope your case has better grammar than that sentence
17:11.24 Twingy aw reck'n it duz
17:12.49 ``Erik (I'm still left wondering... you completed it today, or you're fed up with it and not touching it for the rest of the day?)
17:13.01 ``Erik I suspect I'll be working on mine over the weekend
17:13.12 Twingy I just got an hour or two left on it
17:14.00 ``Erik ah, I intend to float it by lee on monday, impact the pieces he makes sense on, then pass it off to wendy hopefully by tuesday or wednesday
17:20.15 Twingy sent my mill motor back today
17:20.22 Twingy should have the new one in 2 weeks
17:20.32 ``Erik ?
17:20.42 Twingy getting a better one with more caps for free
17:20.48 ``Erik ah
17:20.52 Twingy $22 shipping free
17:49.32 ``Erik wtf
17:49.55 ``Erik the, uh, trash collection contract wasn't renewed, so wendy has john collecting the trash...
18:07.55 brlcad gah, pra5ad .. g-var has bugs
18:28.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: crazy dev trickling variables throughout as if this were c++ code. add a local var footer and remove reference to non-existant codebase. fix header inclusion too.
19:55.01 ``Erik *snrkt*
19:55.14 ``Erik he's a ce, not a cs, pointers are for those cs geeks
20:15.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: follow the style guidelines, use K&R/Java style braces/indents not BSD. ws.
20:29.56 *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.206.155)
20:31.21 ``Erik not bsd??? you suck
20:33.34 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_style
20:35.13 brlcad brl-cad's always been mostly k&r and it's by far the most common
20:35.51 brlcad which reminds me to set up the automatic nightly formatting
21:48.39 ``Erik gindent sometimes breaks things :/
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060603

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060603

00:44.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: treat screen as vt100, avoid the error message about determining how to do bold
00:59.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: so far, only freebsd seems to use doubles for floats .. so revert the leniancy and report when implementations deviate from what should be expected from IEEE compliance.
01:22.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: Tcl_GetAssocData returns a Clientdata, so have to cast to long to avoid mipspro type check failure
01:30.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: no longer need to disable blt, build problem fixed (simple cast)
01:34.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: sgi knobs and example geometry are pushed back as (sigh) clone still isn't done and EF plugin and archer are going to require considerably more attention. prepare for 7.8.2 release, nothing left to do.
01:38.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell unused variable warning
01:47.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.c: quell unused variable warning (norm variable)
02:00.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.c: missed a norm
02:00.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: quell unused variable warnings
02:01.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: quell unused var warning
02:05.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewxray.c: quell unsigned type warning
02:08.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: USE_FBSERV is now defined by configure, quell set but unused warning on id var.
02:08.20 brlcad well then..
02:08.26 brlcad looks like arl just lost power
02:08.47 brlcad and comcast..
02:24.01 Twingy wee
02:24.05 Twingy no
02:24.10 Twingy it's part of the new security protocol
02:24.31 Twingy if you turn the power off, you don't get hackers
02:24.38 Twingy it's brilliant!
02:28.24 brlcad hrm.. seems i only lost connectivity to some servers.. ones that should have survived a browning
02:29.22 brlcad ahh, servers are fine, some router is dead
02:29.39 brlcad i can hop over with the right combination
02:31.11 brlcad and that router seems to be back now
02:32.18 Twingy I suspect I'll be painting, sanding, and spackling all day tomorrow
03:16.18 Twingy messy
03:25.27 Twingy If you have a time machine for sale, I would like to buy it. Send an e-mail.
03:25.27 Twingy Please, serious inquiries only
18:37.02 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
18:37.02 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
20:55.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: quell more unused variable warnings
20:56.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/burst.c: only define sigcld if signal.h doesn't define it
21:00.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: remove unused variables
21:01.22 Twingy nothing like working on muves on a saturday
21:02.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: remove unused variables, quell warnings
21:04.44 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility2.c: removed unused variable i
21:06.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: quell incompatible parammeter type warning
21:07.19 Twingy hrmph
21:07.40 Twingy this is rather significant speed up
21:08.07 Twingy 4.15x speed up, I guaranteed 2x
21:08.22 Twingy haven't optimized anything yet either
21:10.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bwscale.c: quell type warnings on bu_free
21:10.17 Twingy 43% memory savings too
21:14.50 ``Erik 4.15 with or w/o ir ?
21:16.29 Twingy w/o
21:16.45 Twingy and half the code
21:17.00 Twingy 4.15x speed up, 43% memory savings, half the code
21:17.12 Twingy and I'm not even trying :)
21:17.36 Twingy I've met my requirements though, so I should be done this week
21:18.13 Twingy erik, you should base your M3 benchmarks off the ahem newest version of s2
21:22.26 ``Erik heh, indeed
21:22.37 ``Erik although that task has been transfered to the new tl
21:22.46 Twingy ah
21:23.10 ``Erik apparently, if someone gives them bad news, they move to find someone else for a 'second opinion'... until they hear what they want to hear.
21:23.18 ``Erik which is a good chunk of what drove mike to ssvt
21:23.20 ``Erik :)
21:23.25 Twingy haha, so dilbertesque
21:23.47 Twingy atleast we don't get locked in a hole and shot
21:24.11 ``Erik yet
21:24.53 Twingy hrm
21:25.12 Twingy if there were a way to know how many triangles were in the .g file that would save a good chunk of prep time
21:25.41 Twingy save on alot of realloc's
21:26.09 Twingy instead I'll set tie_init to something like 256k triangles by default, cater to small models and super fast prep
21:29.00 ``Erik if you realloc 2*prev each step, would that cut the # of reallocs down enough to be usable?
21:29.26 ``Erik or if you loaded into dynamic store, like a linked list of 'pages', then counted pages to generate the 'final' area?
21:29.55 Twingy 2* is good for small values
21:30.07 Twingy I have had several versions in there
21:30.13 Twingy you're not teaching me anything new
21:30.28 ``Erik heh, 2* is good for big values, too... physical pages aren't wired until they're written to
21:30.31 Twingy I think I will go back to 8MB hunks
21:30.36 Twingy no...
21:30.48 Twingy if you're at 1GB and your algorithm goes, whomp 2GB
21:30.53 Twingy and the model is 1.1GB
21:31.12 Twingy you just ran out of memory
21:31.12 ``Erik um, ...
21:31.37 Twingy so now you gotta add code to set an upper bound based on your memory limit
21:31.54 Twingy 8MB chunks, and that's that
21:33.20 ``Erik no oom
21:33.21 ``Erik sorry
21:33.30 ``Erik memory isn't wired until it's written to
21:34.44 Twingy for windows, for linux, for bsd, for irix, for... ?
21:34.51 ``Erik fbsd
21:34.58 ``Erik it SHOULD be the same on linux, and probably irix
21:35.01 ``Erik I d'no about windows, heh
21:35.44 ``Erik it's a byproduct of the mmu and COW, any system with virtualized memory SHOULD behave in a similar fashion... :/
21:35.53 ``Erik (which means old dos would break violently)
21:36.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-X.c pl-sgi.c): quell lots of warnings.
21:38.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: ws
21:42.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: remove the usage if you're going to remove the decl
21:58.23 Twingy getting close to dinner time, and another round of sanding in the garage
22:07.50 brlcad time to go drinking
22:08.19 ``Erik <-- sips his beer
22:10.00 Twingy I have soda and iced-tea
22:10.03 ``Erik my kitchen is a lot nicer when clean
22:10.09 Twingy the possibilities are endless!
22:11.09 Twingy let's see, 2 hours of sanding and painting, 1 hour of basement bathroom work, followed by an hour of kitchen floor work
22:11.22 Twingy what a fun night
22:11.49 Twingy back at 10pm
22:54.49 *** join/#brlcad brick_ (n=brick@dsl-146-236-32.telkomadsl.co.za)
22:55.23 brick_ hi
22:56.05 brick_ Does BRL include tetrahedral meshing capabilities, or is some external app needed?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060604

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060604

00:45.22 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:31.15 brlcad brick_: sorry, it doesn't directly
02:31.41 brlcad it does have meshing capabilities, but not tetrahedral
02:31.57 brlcad for that, presumably for fea purposes, we're collaborating with Cubit
02:32.23 brlcad SNL project that does very well at meshing for fea purposes
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06:22.52 Twingy this fortran shit is annoying me
07:59.23 *** join/#brlcad brick__ (n=brick@dsl-165-255-37.telkomadsl.co.za)
10:27.18 brick__ brlcad: how hard is it to use cubit on brl models currently?
10:27.46 brickZA damn, all nicks taken ;P
12:22.44 brlcad brickZA: cubit itself is pretty trivial to use. you convert brl-cad geometry to a format cubit will import (e.g. iges, stl, dxf).
12:24.19 brlcad there is work going on to bring in brl-cad geometry directly by hooking into their CGM library
12:24.34 brlcad which will be better, but even the import route isn't too bad
12:44.04 brickZA brlcad: thanks :)
12:58.30 ``Erik wi psykotic
14:20.14 brlcad hrm, wake up CIA-9
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18:45.07 *** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-55-177-228.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:59.58 ``Erik O.O
23:03.24 *** part/#brlcad brickZA (n=brick@dsl-165-255-37.telkomadsl.co.za)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060605

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060605

03:10.29 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4302269.sympatico.ca)
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20:06.28 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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22:21.16 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060606

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060606

00:24.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: de-k&r-ify, ansify the functions
00:24.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-sgi.c remapid.c sgi-pix.c): quell more warnings
00:24.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: move the other defines and globals to the top too
00:26.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl.in: iwidgets needs to use it's own version, not the version of cad
00:27.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tclIndex: apparently some new indexed methods
00:27.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): add initial makefiles for the other blt resource directories, help make distcheck work more prevalently
01:25.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: remove unused var i
01:25.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/sgi-pix.c: few more unused
01:26.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
01:26.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: add a new configure --enable-verbose and --enable-progress option, with the
01:26.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: first being a convenience option that enables the progress and warnings verbose
01:26.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: options. the --enable-verbose-progress option (alias) basically adds --silent
01:26.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: to LIBTOOLFLAGS and/or to LIBTOOL.
01:27.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: commit the right version for iwidgets, 4.0.1
02:27.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: reorder functions in proper decl/usage order, get rid of const Matrix casts
02:32.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: record whether a configure option was set or not since it may be set yet still be the default
02:36.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Check-in mods for Doug. This mod checks for the existence of before trying to use it. Also change version to 0.8.1
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03:22.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/sgi-pix.c: sane function ordering, clean up preprocessor logic, quell warnings, ws.
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15:06.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added a "Display" panel to the preferences dialog. At the moment it provides a simple way to set the viewing cube size.
17:50.58 ``Erik a/det
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21:15.59 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
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23:35.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: ack, API != ABI. Genericize the home directory too.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060607

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060607

01:48.01 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4302269.sympatico.ca)
02:45.55 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th
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18:06.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: the bending angle may be (still) near 0, this should not be a problem
18:10.44 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/mat.c):
18:10.44 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: provide with bn_mat_inverse a less rigorous function to invert a 4-by-4 matrix,
18:10.44 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: it is almost impossible to decide in advance if a matrix is singular
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20:04.05 ``Erik a2/det
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060608

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060608

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05:43.48 hsrai register
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13:38.32 brlcad hsrai: hello
13:59.10 ``Erik heh
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17:14.46 brlcad ahh tom
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18:25.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: new index entries
18:37.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: unconditionally disable for now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060609

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060609

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21:26.39 ``Erik *yargn*
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060610

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060610

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060611

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060611

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060612

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060612

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060613

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060613

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16:17.18 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: add versiontracker to the release notification list
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23:14.50 ``Erik http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/catfaces.jpg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060614

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060614

00:04.07 brlcad thats old stuff
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21:37.40 Lars hi, anyone online?
21:38.40 Lars Just came across some limitation in brlcad's iges-import and wanted to let others know about it.
21:57.12 *** part/#brlcad Lars (n=Lars@81.213.12.36)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060615

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060615

00:33.28 brlcad hrmph
00:34.13 brlcad they have a disney theme park designer as the siggraph keynote speaker..
00:34.38 brlcad that sounds mildly interesting, but I would have hoped for someone more interesting
00:48.15 Twingy yep
00:48.22 Twingy better than lucas
00:48.36 Twingy I still think Bruce Sterling was best keynote ever
00:48.44 brlcad heh
00:48.56 brlcad hard to get worse than lucas
00:48.59 Twingy SIGGRAPH 2003 4 EVA!
00:49.17 Twingy I need to get my scsi mobo working
00:49.27 Twingy and see if the contents of this scsi drive contain my siggraph 2003 pics
00:49.33 brlcad omg! ponies @ siggraph 2007! lol
00:49.39 Twingy otherwise they're gone foreva
00:50.14 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/scooter.xhtml
00:52.01 brlcad using your own tax-dollar-funded electricity to recharge the battery half the time: priceless
00:55.35 brlcad hmm.. so at roughly 1500 miles, you will have fully recouped the expense
00:58.04 brlcad 35 miles round trip or so per trip, that's 42 trips you'll have to take which should be doable taking a trip once a week throughout the year minus a few weeks where it's too cold/wet
00:58.27 Twingy yes
00:58.40 Twingy it'll be a while
00:58.51 Twingy and helping the environment in the process
00:59.08 Twingy and making my small contribution to reducing oil demand
01:05.48 ``Erik heh
01:06.20 ``Erik as the oil burning power plants keep providing electricity, paying the penalty for all those step changes, wire loss, etc...
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04:39.03 IriX64 ll
04:40.47 IriX64 sorry.
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12:56.55 rick_ Hello. How do I use voxels in brlcad
12:59.20 brlcad you mean the volumetric primitive?
13:00.12 brlcad the volumetric primitive expects ordered .bw slices like you might get directly from a CT/MRI scan
13:01.32 brlcad bw is a single-channel raw pixel image format (first-quadrant) that brl-cad has tools to manipulate and directly create/convert to, etc
13:02.12 rick_ yes. I would like to fill a complex volume (a tank with a v on the bottem) with volume primatives.
13:03.23 brlcad hmm
13:03.57 brlcad i'm not sure you mean a volumetric primitive then -- it could work, but doing something with the inverse CSG shape would be exact
13:05.12 rick_ Let me explain what I am trying to do. Bare with me I new to brlcad.
13:06.07 brlcad example, create an arb that encloses the space in the v that you want to have filled and then subtract the tank and any outside material
13:06.34 brlcad an "arb" is a box primitive, if that wasn't clear
13:08.59 rick_ I have allready created a region of my tank using rpp and arb6 an subtracted the internal volume wich made a sheet metal tank.
13:13.40 rick_ Is there a way to get the volume of my tank and subdivide into lets say 1 inch cube volumes.
13:17.41 rick_ Well I got to go to work, I really like this program. I am hoping to use it for all my projects. Once I get pass the learning curve.
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16:10.25 ``Erik google for "souhlal said"
16:23.51 ``Erik http://prasad.silva.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/worldrecord.php
16:23.52 ``Erik O.o
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18:26.38 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Minor changes
19:04.26 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/.cvsignore: add toyjeep.g
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060616

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060616

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04:39.12 digitalfredy brlcad, ping
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16:18.21 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th
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20:55.28 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING:
20:55.28 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: Yet another massive rewrite/modification. This time expand the document to
20:55.29 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: include details relevant to all contributors, not just developers, so that the
20:55.29 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: file is applicable to anyone with commit access (with particular attention to
20:55.29 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: documentation writers). Also, finally include some details on where we stand
20:55.31 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: with C++ and clarify a lot of statements throughout with respect to style,
20:55.33 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: conventions, and requirements.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060617

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060617

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00:54.27 ``Erik hrmmmmmmm
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060618

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060618

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10:38.41 ddh hi
10:39.03 ddh i am seeking help to install brlcad on my ubuntu-dapper
10:39.28 ddh i googled, but i could find no sufficient howto.
10:39.56 ddh the INSTALL instructions do not work either
10:40.33 ddh i have no configure script in the (extracted) brl tree
10:41.14 ddh i do have autogen installed, but when i execute it with sh autogen.sh i get the error that the file is missing.
10:41.33 ddh when i execute autogen just by autogen, nothing happens
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060619

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060619

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060620

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060620

04:06.47 CIA-10 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc-nmg.c: Eliminated a redundant call to nmg_km()
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17:42.26 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed asc-nmg bug that caused a crash on exit
17:45.52 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): prepare for release of 7.8.2
17:59.01 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: update Changelog for 7.8.2 release
19:08.05 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: README is updated to the next expected release number while the rest are updated to a developer version
19:10.12 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS README include/config_win.h): release 7.8.2 is tagged as rel-7-8-2, revision numbers are bumped up to 7.8.3 expecting 7.8.4 to be the next release number in a few weeks
19:11.20 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: propagate the next set of changes for this release, next iteration is still tbd
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060621

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060621

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09:57.23 archivist hmm interest in dimensions is building up, time for another hard look at the database format
13:24.30 brlcad dimensions can be done regardless of the database format
13:24.43 brlcad the database format can support the stashing of any key/value data
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13:37.35 brlcad the real "trick" is two-fold
13:38.20 brlcad 1) extracting the dimensions from the geometry (convert to brep and calculate, or sample the implicit directly)
13:38.54 brlcad 2) providing a user interface for specifying what they want dimensioned and how to display those dimensions
13:39.51 archivist dimensions that are set should control the geometry imho
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13:49.57 archivist the end result will a mixture of derived on the 2d and some driving when the items are created
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14:28.48 brlcad i presume you mean dimensions that are effectively tied to the geometry directly such that they become constraints of a sort
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14:31.43 archivist yes
14:32.19 brlcad hmm.. from a modeling perspective, that gets very tricky
14:32.47 brlcad if I have arbitrary geometry, even just a simple primitive with a dimensioned length
14:32.47 archivist i realise that
14:33.28 brlcad there can be numerous transforms that will evaluate to an increase in that dimension, e.g. stretching and scaling might both make the dimension increase
14:34.06 brlcad and for many prims that could be a completely non-linear transform
14:35.01 brlcad unless it just happened to be one of a handful of fairly well-behaved dimensions, like the diameter of a cylinder or a sphere
14:36.03 brlcad which are pretty trivial of course.. throw in CSG operations and arbitrary dimensions across several primitives and you suddenly have a fairly unsolvable constraint
14:36.23 brlcad unless you always scaled uniformly or something wierd.. :)
14:37.40 archivist yup I get some wonderfull drags in solid works or a nasty error message
14:38.24 archivist one then does it properly forcing dimensions to be sensible or fix relatiions between lines
14:38.33 brlcad heh
14:40.36 archivist It generally checks before attempting the stupid, later versions are better in that respect
14:42.16 brlcad does solidworks let you dimension across parts?
14:42.31 brlcad and modify that dimension directly
14:42.45 archivist drawing correct sizes at the start is less fraught
14:43.01 brlcad hmm?
14:43.47 archivist you can relate a new part to existing parts in an assembly yes
14:44.10 archivist known as drawing "in place"
14:44.13 brlcad but then is that just a position constraint?
14:44.57 archivist well a mod of the assembly will stretch the part or give an error
14:45.01 brlcad i'm thinking of a case where you set a dimension on the span of say a car engine, one for width, one for height etc
14:46.14 brlcad if I selected the width and "increased" it.. what would that do if there were no constraints set?
14:47.17 archivist holes would not line up graphics will overlap
14:47.46 brlcad so it wouldn't stretch all the geometry, just some of it
14:48.14 archivist if it was drawn in place then some stretching would tacke place
14:48.47 archivist it all depends wether parts are related or not
14:49.10 archivist relations can be added or deleted
14:49.14 brlcad relations are implicit constraints.. this simplist case is fully unconstrained
14:49.40 brlcad (just conceptualizing the generic case)
14:50.52 archivist unconstrained part grow and the graphics merge (an interference check needed)
14:52.11 brlcad and what about the case where all parts are related in an assembly (again, the case of a simple engine for example)
14:52.37 brlcad would it simply stretch the engine?
14:53.27 archivist if it could yes (as long as the related join distance does not have a constraint)
14:54.25 brlcad right, was presuming there aren't internal constraints that might impose additional constraints like having a hole some distance from an edge
14:55.39 archivist hole from edge may be able to drag the edge
14:57.43 archivist I shall have to do some test cases I suppose so we can see whats happening
17:36.22 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/pkgIndex.tcl: commit the empty index like all the others if only to be consistent
18:40.41 archivist did a test case draw chassis solid, insert chassis into assembly, draw engine in place, stretch chassis and engine stretches to fit, keeping bolt holes registered
18:41.34 archivist stretch was by editing the dimension in the chassis part
18:57.09 brlcad that's sort of what I'd hope expect since your dealing with a lower dimension with dependent constraints
18:57.25 brlcad how does it behave if you create a new dimension for the entire enginge?
18:57.56 ``Erik vodka would be nice right about now
18:58.21 ``Erik the funk soul brother
19:01.44 archivist attmpting to constrain the bolt distance of the engine is not allowed
19:03.27 archivist breaking the relation to the chassis would then allow it
20:32.58 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.6.8 window of opportunity was lost due to merge complications on the 7.6 branch, so cancel it outright. revert, poof, gone.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060622

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060622

01:46.58 *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=user@ip70-161-120-182.hr.hr.cox.net)
02:05.13 starseeker anybody here?
02:08.41 brlcad sometimes :)
02:08.47 brlcad howdy starseeker .. been a while
02:09.02 starseeker Yes indeed. Just got internet back after many months
02:09.09 starseeker good to be back!
02:09.36 starseeker I see brl-cad has made some strides. Anybody working on a 7.8.0 ebuild yet, to your knowledge?
02:09.51 brlcad not to my knowledge!
02:10.05 starseeker Hmm. A situation requiring attention :-)
02:10.13 brlcad there have been a couple new gentooers interested in the ebuild, but nobody jumping in hard
02:10.41 brlcad there was still one remaining issue iirc, but I hadn't been back to the ebuild to see what it was to get a fix in for it
02:10.54 starseeker letsee... I was just looking at that...
02:10.56 brlcad btw 7.8.2 is posted ;)
02:11.02 starseeker sweet!
02:11.20 brlcad brb
02:14.19 starseeker Well, I've got the gentoo-sci overlay here, which I think has it... yes. Let's see how 7.8.2 does.
02:21.30 starseeker OK, here we go...
02:22.37 starseeker Ah, fudge. Ebuild wants a patch.
02:22.55 starseeker Would it be better for testing purposes to try it with no patches?
02:33.06 starseeker OK... it didn't like it when I tried to eautoconf, but I"m trying it with just removing all that and going with the default ./configure...
02:35.22 starseeker They disabled something subesequently not found on the system - re-enabling it...
02:35.31 starseeker URT, I think...
02:37.13 starseeker Grr - itcl must need a patch. Darn it, why can't they just use the internal stuff...
02:39.54 starseeker Well, I'm almost getting it to finish ./configure so far :-)
02:40.49 brlcad for ebuild it should be using either the --enable-everything or --disable-everything option so that it consistently builds or doesn't build the external dependencies itself
02:41.35 starseeker Hmm. Well, they seem to be pretty stubborn about wanting the disable-everything route, but that never seems to work properly.
02:41.44 starseeker OK, it's at least building now.
02:41.47 brlcad probably --disable-everything .. that will turn off brl-cad's compilation of almost everything in src/other
02:42.14 brlcad shouldn't be any more violations any more
02:42.22 starseeker OK, cool :-)
02:42.33 brlcad the biggest issue that I can think of is that it still requires our tcl/tk
02:42.37 starseeker I think it's about a 20 minute build (or it was)
02:42.49 brlcad more specifically, it needs our tk
02:43.07 starseeker actually, tcl/tk was ok, at least so far - it was itcl it didn't seem to like
02:43.13 brlcad though I haven't tried piecemealing it with some on and some off
02:43.29 starseeker 'course, I haven't actually gotten to the tk compile yet...
02:44.17 brlcad no? what fails?
02:44.24 brlcad everything in brl-cad should compile without a hitch
02:44.49 brlcad i.e. if you ./configure --enable-everything .. that 'should' always work .. if it doesn't, that's a serious build bug
02:44.50 starseeker I think it will. The configure was a little odd but I'm not convinced that's brlcads fault
02:45.12 starseeker OK. I was doing it wrong - I tried to use internal stuff only when I had to
02:45.26 brlcad you can actually --enable-everything and then --disable specific packages too .. that might be easier for testing
02:46.19 starseeker If enable-everything works we should get an ebuild out there that does that, and follow up with the more finicky one when we can make it work.
02:46.53 brlcad we're really really close to being able to disable everything, it's the tcl/tk itcl/itk/iwidgets stuff that causes serious problems still due to the way they search for script 'packages' at run-time
02:47.35 brlcad that can come to closure and get fixed pretty quickly, but since you weren't around and others weren't nearly as motivated, the priority slowly decreases ;)
02:47.41 brlcad priority follows interest ;)
02:47.48 brlcad and involvement
02:47.55 starseeker I thought there were some customizations that were made just for brl-cad?
02:47.57 starseeker Heh
02:48.10 starseeker Yes, I see the ebuild comments are rather stale
02:48.33 brlcad there were some customizations make to tk and repairs made throughout their build for minor issues like 64bit bugs and type warnings
02:48.46 starseeker I was hoping when that guy came in making fun of my 1st ebuild he would get it completely working. Maybe it's time to repeat that strategy :-)
02:48.52 brlcad but I removed those shortly after the last time I was testing with either you or one of the debian guys
02:49.08 brlcad our tk mods are now in a different library (one of ours) instead of in tk
02:49.15 starseeker The upstream tk maintainers weren't interested?
02:49.17 starseeker cool
02:49.41 brlcad but.. that code still uses tk internal headers and has to get fixed still.. so until it's fixed it still requires a copy of tk sources from somewhere
02:49.55 starseeker Seldom a problem on gentoo ;-)
02:50.11 brlcad true
02:50.13 starseeker Oh, is -march=athlon-xp going to get me in trouble?
02:50.49 brlcad but it means that you can't just assume because tk 8.4 is installed that it will compile, it won't.. because it's using internal tk headers as if it was tk itself.. which tk doesn't install
02:50.56 brlcad no, that should be just fine
02:51.14 brlcad the veritable test of functionality after everything is installed is to run 'benchmark'
02:51.35 starseeker Is that a brlcad binary?
02:51.47 starseeker (it's been a while :/)
02:51.50 brlcad yes
02:52.03 brlcad technically not a binary, but it is a core brl-cad application
02:52.09 starseeker OK, if I get away with this compile I'll give it a go.
02:52.35 brlcad that ends up exercising all of the core libraries testing performance and verifying that the ray-trace library is computing results correctly within tolerance
02:52.55 brlcad it will tell you a metric of how your machine compares performance-wise
02:53.49 starseeker OK.
02:54.07 brlcad the BRL-CAD Benchmark has also been around for a couple decades so you can use the number it gives you to see how you compare to systems like a VAX 11/780 and a Cray 2, etc
02:54.14 starseeker Cool!
02:54.45 brlcad or a 512 process SGI Origin 2000 or a Mac G5, etc.. any system
02:55.12 starseeker Might be depressing though - when we benchmarked our compaq pcs agains our years old dec alphas, our new (expensive) pcs got killed on floating point
02:55.47 starseeker We should have scrounged up a buch of old alphas - more bang for the buck ;-)
02:56.06 brlcad it's an excellent direct comparison of "real world" computation power for cpu-intensive applications since it exercises how well your cpu performs, cache levels, access to memory, coherency, compiler optimization options, etc
02:56.26 starseeker Nice. Who's the current leader in the AMD/Intel comparison?
02:56.53 brlcad e.g. it would be a great way to quantifiably compare how much boost gentoo gives to a system by simply compiling with the same compiler and same compiler options on a box with gentoo and then on that same box with a different os
02:57.12 starseeker Hmm. That would be interesting.
02:57.27 brlcad AMD has been beating in the numerics realm for many years now for general performance computing
02:57.28 starseeker Has anybody tried it inside a virtualization environment (e.g. Xen?)
02:58.41 starseeker That might be a good heavy duty test for them
02:58.58 starseeker Although I guess the CPUs with the proper support for that aren't generally available yet?
02:59.05 brlcad Intel's been good in some niche computing areas, e.g. taking advantage of perfectly aligned caches with extensive coherencey, but when it comes to real world application performance, it pays more penalties and AMD has come out on top for most chips for over 5 years now
02:59.21 starseeker Wow!
02:59.24 brlcad inside a virtualization environment?
02:59.48 brlcad it's been run inside Mingw on windows and on virtual pc
03:00.10 starseeker Apparently they are working on creating processors that will allow things like running Windows and Linux side by side at a rather low level (for performance gains)
03:00.13 brlcad shows pretty well the sorts of penalties you pay
03:00.25 starseeker Yes, I'm sure mingw is horrible
03:00.30 brlcad :)
03:00.44 starseeker Maxima has used mingw, and I think Axiom did too
03:00.51 starseeker When it's the only game in town...
03:01.19 starseeker Ah - here's Xen: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/
03:02.21 brlcad ahh
03:02.29 starseeker They claim "close to native" performance :-). Sounds like it's begging for benchmark to take a crack at it ;-)
03:02.34 brlcad it'd be interested to see just what that penalty is
03:02.54 brlcad that's what I've always loved about the BRL-CAD Benchmark
03:03.12 starseeker I'm hoping to wait on my next PC until I can have Xen allow things like running WIndows and Linux at the same time, seamlessly
03:03.52 brlcad it's a real world metric better than the subjective ones you usually see like Photoshop and Maya, and not tied to hardware to specifically beyond the processor like the game FPS benchmarks
03:04.05 starseeker Right.
03:04.07 brlcad nor is it insanely operation specific like the SPEC ratings
03:04.23 brlcad where you simply do a billion floating point divides etc
03:04.56 starseeker I think some of those tests were intended for very specific numerical simulation optimization, and got perverted into marketing tools.
03:05.33 starseeker OK, compiled... Will it install...
03:06.28 starseeker I saw a warning about relinking libfb.a or something similar - is that expected?
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03:08.35 starseeker One problem I might have is that my nvidia drivers aren't working with the new Xorg release, so I"m on the basic nv driver
03:09.06 starseeker Appears to have installed!!!
03:09.58 starseeker Let's see what benchmark does...
03:10.38 starseeker It estimates a little under 10 minutes
03:11.22 brlcad they do get perverted into marketing tools
03:12.07 brlcad and if you talk to some of the chip makers.. some of the chips (in particular intel ones) are actually specifically designed to perform very well on the SPEC benchmarks even though their real-world performance is nowhere near as ideal
03:12.27 starseeker ouch. That must smart to an engineer
03:12.35 brlcad benchmark default timeframe is 10 minutes, it can be changed to pretty much any length of time
03:13.08 starseeker lets see - where does brlcad put its examples?
03:13.18 brlcad e.g. "TIMEFRAME=10 benchmark" will run it really fast to give a real quick estimate
03:13.34 brlcad did it error?
03:13.41 starseeker not so far
03:14.05 brlcad each one of those frames is actually a ray-trace rendering of some geometry
03:14.36 brlcad simple models, but the stress specific types of access and different portions of the BRL-CAD libraries
03:14.48 brlcad 6 tests in all today
03:15.18 starseeker Ah, OK. Well, it is giving answers are RIGHT and 0 off by 1, 0 off by many
03:15.29 brlcad good
03:15.29 starseeker Oh, it sends them in to the site?
03:15.33 brlcad RIGHT answers are good
03:15.36 starseeker :-)
03:15.46 brlcad no, it doesn't .. would be a sweet feature I'd like to add
03:16.09 brlcad but i'm a bit uneasy myself about how to prompt the user as to whether they want to submit results to a database
03:17.02 brlcad plus I need more details to really make sense of the number (cpu type, number of cpus, amount of memory, l1/l2/l3 cache levels, compiler, compiler options, type of memory, version of brl-cad)
03:17.05 starseeker Maybe something like: "Tests completed successfully. Would you like to submit these results to the central brlcad performance benchmarking database? (y|n)
03:17.52 brlcad something like that could work
03:18.03 starseeker Most computers can tell you cpu type and # of cpus I think, and probably amount of memory. Not sure about the others - does brlcad itself record the options used to build it?
03:18.23 starseeker type of memory might be tough. I'd love to know how to tell what kind of memory I've got.
03:18.47 brlcad i can programmatically get most of the details, and it does know how it was built.. but the tool that describes all that to the benchmark suite would need to get written
03:19.10 starseeker Ugh.
03:19.34 starseeker OK, got the results : These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 1347 times
03:19.34 starseeker faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780
03:19.34 starseeker running 4.3 BSD named VGR. These results are in fact approximately 3.13
03:19.34 starseeker orders of magnitude faster than the reference.
03:20.04 brlcad not too shabby for a single cpu result
03:20.25 brlcad seems slightly low if that's a new chip, did you use --enable-optimized?
03:20.36 starseeker No. It's an old chip though.
03:20.39 starseeker let's see...
03:21.05 brlcad ahh, without --enable-optimized, the numbers are going to be considerably lower
03:21.19 starseeker Fudge - how do I check my cpu type
03:21.32 brlcad compiler difference between -O0 and -O3 with additional optimizations is going to be about 2X performance usually
03:21.41 starseeker I should say I didn't turn it on - I need to check the ebuild
03:21.42 brlcad cat /proc/cpuinfo
03:21.57 starseeker <PROTECTED>
03:22.09 starseeker cache size : 256 KB
03:22.22 starseeker cpu MHz : 1533.236
03:23.18 starseeker Opps - it's in the ebuild, but I don't think I used that flag. OK, one more build...
03:23.24 starseeker should I bother sending in this result?
03:23.34 brlcad nah
03:23.58 brlcad make sure it's --enable-optimized and --disable-debug for the best results and maybe even add your march flag
03:24.16 brlcad (disable-debug isn't that important, but might give 1-2%)
03:24.28 starseeker OK - the march flag was in there, I saw it during the build
03:25.49 starseeker Is --enable-everything compatible with the above two options?
03:25.50 brlcad that VGR number (1347 in your case) is the bread and butter
03:25.56 brlcad yes
03:26.17 brlcad enable-everything only affects the --enable-*-build options
03:26.24 starseeker All rightie, let's see if this will build
03:26.29 brlcad so has nothing to do with optimized or debug
03:27.13 starseeker does an athlon xp 1800 still count as a new chip?
03:27.24 brlcad the VGR number is a linear metric, meaning that a machine with a VGR of 2000 is twice as fast as one with a VGR of 1000
03:27.42 brlcad 1800 is from 5 years ago, no?
03:27.48 brlcad maybe 6
03:27.51 starseeker I think - I don't remember now
03:28.17 brlcad doesn't matter, i've been slowly attempting to build a database of performance numbers
03:28.48 brlcad hoping to get a website wrapped around it all at some point so people can see just how systems perform under various configurations
03:28.49 starseeker Cool. I'll have a somewhat better one for you in half an hour or so ;-)
03:29.27 brlcad so you know it.. when you run benchmark, it's dumping out a lot of files into your current directory ... :-)
03:29.50 starseeker woo-doggy
03:30.09 brlcad easy enough to rm -f *.pix *.log summary to get rid of them all
03:30.30 brlcad assuming you don't have other pix and log files of importance
03:30.47 starseeker not any more ;-)
03:31.05 starseeker I don't usually use log files much
03:31.21 starseeker bad habit though - I really should keep a closer eye on things
03:31.50 brlcad meh, there's only so many hours in the day to keep an eye on things ;)
03:32.10 starseeker exactly. Maybe I should hire a sysadmin :)
03:32.15 brlcad so you said you were offline? off to school? in jail? :)
03:32.43 starseeker Nah (though the office does feel like the latter sometimes) - I turned off the internet for a while to conserve on both time and $$
03:33.01 brlcad gotya
03:33.21 starseeker So I had the bright idea of re-installing my system to get all the latest goodies
03:33.28 starseeker and ran smack into the expat upgrade
03:33.40 brlcad though heck, I probably would have paid for your internet if it meant getting more brl-cad work out of you ;-)
03:34.21 starseeker Heh :-). Didn't think of that. The real problem was my girlfriend was 5 hours away up in Delaware and most of my weekends were spent driving up there.
03:34.37 brlcad ahh, that's just up the road
03:34.37 starseeker Even brl-cad doesn't compete with girlfriend ;-)
03:35.10 starseeker Now she's in Pittsburgh, which is 10 hours. So now it's down to once a month, due to travel time and costs
03:35.19 brlcad you probably drove within 5 minutes of my house if you took the I95 corridor
03:35.39 starseeker I've only done that once or twice - usually I come up 13
03:35.50 starseeker Bay bridge costs, but it's a nice drive
03:36.14 starseeker You in Delaware?
03:36.21 brlcad it is a nice drive..
03:36.24 brlcad no no..
03:36.31 brlcad god that'd drive me nut
03:36.36 brlcad nuts
03:36.43 starseeker Hehe. No sales tax was nice.
03:36.53 brlcad yeah.. but .. it's .. deleware ;)
03:37.10 starseeker Well, at least it has the virtue of not being NJ :-)
03:37.18 brlcad there's nothing there except a couple beaches and tax free shopping
03:37.27 brlcad that's true
03:37.31 starseeker the only state I am aware of which collects money from you to let you out is NJ ;-)
03:37.41 brlcad hehe
03:38.08 starseeker Well, they do have some solar research at Delaware, but thanks to the current administration the $$ kinda dried up
03:38.33 starseeker Cool. We went down to MD for dinner once in a while
03:39.00 starseeker Got my only speeding ticket to date in MD
03:39.06 brlcad heh
03:39.18 starseeker Never drive fast after midnight on Superbowl sunday - the cops are all bored
03:40.33 brlcad 95 is heavily patrolled most of the time through MD, have to know their camping spots but even then it's still a big gamble
03:40.59 brlcad they make a lot of their funding on it
03:41.22 starseeker Yep. If we suddenly all slowed to legal speeds I think there would be a financial crisis in law enforcement
03:41.23 brlcad with a particular affinity for out-of-state cars ;)
03:41.27 starseeker heh
03:41.45 starseeker That night I think I was the ONLY car.
03:42.40 starseeker I think the most fun I had doing that drive was when NASCAR was getting out in Dover and I was going the other way - there's something immensely satisfying about doing 60 down the road watching a 17 mile backup on the other side :-)
03:43.15 brlcad the one nice thing is that since 95 is so heavily traveled and it feeds through baltimore/washington that the average speeds are conveniently high
03:43.27 starseeker True.
03:43.38 brlcad but it also means the cops can pretty much pull over anyone they want depending on how much quota they have to fill that month ..
03:44.07 starseeker I think I"ve seen as many as 4 cars stationed in once spot on 95, come to think of it.
03:44.10 starseeker and it was in MD
03:45.32 brlcad coworker and I that used to travel 50+ miles a day at usually 80-100 mph most of the way and we used to joke about how cars that got "selected" was like them simply choosing a sacrificial lamb
03:46.11 brlcad a form of random taxation for the 'privilege' to drive fast if you will
03:46.22 starseeker Yep.
03:46.50 starseeker I think if they would raise the driving license age by another 5 years or so they could up the speeds another 10 miles.
03:47.36 starseeker 50+ miles a day is a mean commute
03:47.42 brlcad they could already do that pretty safely, half of the neighboring states already did without a problem
03:48.01 starseeker Yep, then it's the $$, pure and simple
03:48.11 brlcad pretty much
03:48.41 starseeker How has BRLCAD been doing now that it's open source - have there been real, substantial contributions to the code base yet?
03:48.48 brlcad and a lot of conservatives wanting to keep it how it is
03:48.57 starseeker that figures
03:50.23 brlcad there have been some substantial contributions, more so in the last couple months has been growing involvement from a handful of guys learning what's there and making mods
03:51.09 brlcad nobody up to speed of what i'd call a core dev yet, but the contributions have been significant
03:51.44 brlcad one guy working on converting the major documentation into docbook (long desired task) and he's made great progress pretty much doing exactly what I would have done had I done it myself
03:52.04 starseeker That's handy :-)
03:52.11 brlcad another guy worked on mged fixing a handful of issues and implementing full vi-mode command line editing capabilities
03:52.46 brlcad another windows dev went hog wild making litterally hundred of fixes throughout shortly after it was released for windows
03:53.00 starseeker Heh - I see May 23 was a banner day for downloads
03:53.06 brlcad that was just astounding, though I haven't been able to get him onto irc yet to get him integrating better
03:53.24 starseeker Windows specific fixes, or general?
03:53.31 brlcad both
03:53.35 starseeker Wow
03:53.39 brlcad more general then specific actually
03:53.54 brlcad though he also fixed a lot of windows build system issues too
03:54.21 starseeker A good windows release is always a major undertaking. Which installer did you opt for?
03:54.58 brlcad it was.. the windows release held up our normal release schedule for several months
03:56.05 brlcad my time was completely taxed trying to integrate the ton of changes that had been made for the windows port over a couple months, then took a couple more of testing and fixing and validating, etc and I'm still trying to catch up and get back to regular monthly releases now
03:56.29 brlcad i forget the exact installer, I think it's an installshield right now
03:56.43 starseeker Really. Wow. I thought that was commercial only
03:56.53 brlcad though I'll likely see if I can someone playing with the windows stuff to look at nsis
03:57.07 starseeker Yep, I was going to suggest that :-)
03:57.20 starseeker If for any reason that won't work, InnoSetup is the other major one.
03:57.38 brlcad i think nsis is actually probably better regardless.. :)
03:57.41 starseeker I think NSIS is the more sophisticated of the two though
03:57.45 starseeker er, yeah :-)
03:58.19 starseeker Axiom used NSIS, and I'm sure it will again when someone gets gutsy enough to try it again.
03:58.31 brlcad installshield isn't available to anyone but bob (the current 'primary' windows dev)
03:58.35 starseeker Ah.
03:59.21 brlcad i'm not too thrilled with the current state of the windows build myself but i'm just waiting to see how it all settles down
03:59.47 starseeker Are y'all using mingw and msys or the Microsoft tools?
04:00.16 brlcad there are now like 3 ways build on windows, cygwin/mingw or vc6 studio build files or vc7 build files
04:00.35 starseeker mingw is always a trip because it never steadies down.
04:00.40 starseeker Wow
04:00.47 starseeker no wonder it took months
04:00.51 brlcad cygwin/mingw is actually the most comprehensive.. it builds the entire package, all libraries, all binaries
04:01.08 brlcad i had that working a couple years ago in just a day
04:01.46 brlcad the vc6 files on the other hand dont' include any of the binaries, but build all of the libraries "best"
04:02.15 brlcad the vc7 files build all of the libraries 'ok' and about 1/4th of the binaries (most of the core ones that people care about)
04:02.30 starseeker Hmm. How are the relative benchmark numbers for the different methods?
04:03.00 brlcad the problem with the studio files is that they have to be separately maintained and that's a burden without a really highly active windows dev
04:03.41 starseeker Yes. Plus, you need a studio license to even get started
04:03.47 brlcad hmm.. i hadn't bothered testing extensively, just quick tests to make sure things were working correctly and get a feel
04:04.08 starseeker Auuuuuuuuuuuuuugh
04:04.30 starseeker --------------------------- ACCESS VIOLATION SUMMARY ---------------------------
04:04.30 starseeker LOG FILE = "/var/log/sandbox/sandbox-sci-misc_-_brlcad-7.8.2-13421.log"
04:04.30 starseeker open_wr: /usr/lib/describe.com
04:04.30 starseeker --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
04:04.31 brlcad studio builds are definitely faster -- the compiler is considerably better at optimizing over what gcc was doing in mingw
04:04.45 brlcad hmm.. decribe.com?
04:05.12 starseeker Yep.
04:05.22 brlcad that sounds familiar
04:05.30 starseeker That didn't happen before - but I'm not sure if it was the enable-everything or the optimized flag
04:05.40 brlcad sounds like jove
04:05.58 brlcad yep, sure enough..
04:06.04 brlcad problem in the jove Makefile.am
04:06.09 brlcad --disable-jove :)
04:06.19 starseeker I'll run the benchmark from the /var/tmp/portage directory - it did compile.
04:07.42 starseeker I think that sandbox feature is responsible for more Makefile cleanups...
04:07.55 brlcad that was a 1-char typo :)
04:08.00 starseeker Hehehe
04:08.07 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: ACK, typo.. DESDIR != DESTDIR, fix sandbox error
04:08.23 starseeker maybe slip in a new 7.8.2 tarball unnoticed? ;-)
04:08.30 brlcad heh
04:08.59 brlcad nah, ebuild should use --disable-jove
04:09.09 starseeker jove isn't essential?
04:09.15 brlcad heck no
04:09.25 starseeker ok, updating...
04:09.39 brlcad it would have been removed from the package a long time ago, but it's an editor..
04:09.50 brlcad and brl-cad has provided it for a very long time..
04:10.05 brlcad ever try to get some unix guy to use a different editor? :-)
04:10.40 starseeker It's a little like trying to reason with an Middle Eastern fanatic, actually
04:10.47 brlcad let the vi vs emacs vs nano vs pico vs ed wars commence!
04:11.32 starseeker OK, one more time (as soon as the benchmark is done)
04:11.35 brlcad not so important for "external" or "new" users .. especially packaging systems like portage
04:12.10 starseeker OK. Shouldn't be a problem.
04:12.43 starseeker They're unlikely to include my ebuild anyway, since I"m content to go with the use everything option and ignore trying to get it working with external tcl/tk
04:13.08 starseeker I'll post it, so that one guy can insult it and write a better one again ;-)
04:13.15 brlcad heh
04:14.08 brlcad well the external tcl/tk thing really isn't going to work until some source mods are made at least to that tk component that requires the private headers but probably also to the package search rules for mged, btclsh, and bwish
04:15.04 starseeker Any thought to using something other than tcl/tk? (I know that's a lot of needless work, I just had to ask ;-)
04:15.16 brlcad of course
04:15.50 starseeker Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1510
04:15.56 brlcad it would be a monumental effort to actually replace tcl/tk (several man-years of works) entirely
04:16.08 starseeker Eeeeep.
04:16.42 brlcad the 'plan' though is to leave the tools that use it as-is (i.e. leave mged alone) and develop new tools that don't have the dependency
04:16.51 starseeker We'll schedule that for when Tim Daly begins turning BRL-CAD into a literate programming project ;-)
04:16.57 starseeker Ah, OK.
04:17.16 brlcad more to the point, a new modeler -- it's actually one of the utmost highest priority development items
04:17.40 starseeker Solidworks type UI, or something totally new?
04:19.15 starseeker Actually, I guess Solidworks is actually a different kind of CAD?
04:19.46 brlcad <PROTECTED>
04:19.52 starseeker Cool :-)
04:20.07 brlcad solidworks is a different kind of cad slightly, but they do overlap somewhat with the domain
04:20.22 brlcad others would be unigraphics, pro/engineer, catia
04:20.56 starseeker are they capable of different things, or is it more a "different design philosophy" sort of difference?
04:21.07 starseeker (sorry for the dorky questions)
04:21.11 brlcad both actually
04:21.16 brlcad nah, fine questions
04:21.55 brlcad if you get into the research, there was a big debate 15+ years ago regarding geometric representations, implicit vs explicit, brep vs csg, etc
04:22.16 starseeker From what little I have seen of solidworks, it seems to have some fairly good tools for taking a solid and "cutting and shaping" the geometry in precise ways, but that's about all I know about it.
04:22.16 brlcad most of the commercial systems went explicit and brep, brl-cad went implicit and csg
04:22.24 starseeker Ah :-)
04:22.38 brlcad since then, both realized the benefits of having both and have moved towards hybrid systems
04:22.54 starseeker Heh - that must have upset a lot of academics :-)
04:23.05 starseeker nobody wins the total victory ;-)
04:23.10 brlcad the commercial guys have invested a lot more time/money into being hybrid, brl-cad to a lesser extent though it is something that needs to continue
04:24.13 brlcad i.e. brl-cad actually has pretty extensive support for breps and explicit representations, it's just not well exposed by the modeling tools to say the least and not well developed/debugged/etc
04:24.52 brlcad the other big difference is feature-wise -- the big names in the industry have massive purses, massive dev teams
04:24.53 starseeker Ah. So the 1st 90% is done, there's just that last 10% that takes 90% of the time? ;-)
04:24.57 starseeker true
04:25.00 brlcad implementing a "full" CAD system is incredibly expensive
04:25.21 brlcad it's the only reason that no open source project has even come close to touching the domain before brl-cad was released as open source
04:25.43 brlcad and brl-cad has 20 years investment with some pretty top-notch mathematical talent and programming teams behind it
04:25.52 starseeker I suspected something of the sort when I started looking around for one
04:26.08 starseeker Mike Myers was involved, IIRC?
04:26.27 brlcad and we're dwarfed by the big names when it comes to domains we don't regularly deal with
04:26.40 starseeker only natural
04:27.28 brlcad drafting, machining, part designing, finite element analyses .. all things we don't "do" well and with each one of those is a long associated feature list
04:27.54 brlcad Mike Muuss was the primary brains behind brl-cad's origins
04:28.01 starseeker Oh, sorry :-)
04:28.09 starseeker wrong MIke
04:28.22 brlcad mike myers is a comedian actor ;)
04:28.49 starseeker or coffee
04:29.11 brlcad i actually have to head off for a bit myself too
04:29.25 starseeker OK - did you want the optimized results?
04:29.26 brlcad good talking with you again as always
04:29.30 starseeker same here
04:29.37 brlcad sure
04:29.50 starseeker Righto - do I copy the terminal output or is there a file?
04:29.55 brlcad send me your 'summary' file
04:30.10 brlcad along with the details of your system and compilation options
04:30.20 starseeker OK, I'll see what I can dig up.
04:30.30 brlcad /proc/cpuinfo, uname -a, and gcc optimization flags
04:30.49 starseeker OK. I've got them defined in make.conf - does brlcad add any on its own?
04:31.26 brlcad with --enable-optimized it does
04:31.34 brlcad here we go
04:31.38 brlcad # 0) Operating system type and version (e.g. uname -a)
04:31.41 brlcad # 1) Compiler name and version (e.g. gcc --version)
04:31.44 brlcad # 2) CPU configuration (e.g. cat /proc/cpuinfo or hinv or sysctl -a)
04:31.48 brlcad # 3) Cache (data and/or instruction) details for L1/L2/L3 and system
04:31.51 brlcad # (e.g. cat /proc/cpuinfo or hinv or sysctl -a)
04:31.54 brlcad # 4) Output from this script (e.g. ./run.sh > run.sh.log 2>&1)
04:31.57 brlcad # 5) All generated log files (e.g. *.log* after running run.sh)
04:32.00 brlcad # 6) Anything else you think might be relevant to performance
04:32.24 starseeker Where is run.sh?
04:32.25 brlcad forget 4 and 5, the 'summary' file will do just fine ;)
04:32.29 starseeker ah :-)
04:32.37 starseeker OK, will do.
04:32.52 starseeker the benchmark email is still the one to use?
04:33.03 brlcad yeah, that's perfect
04:33.29 starseeker OK. Watch the ebuild bug report - I'll post something once it actually builds and start the fight again :-) Have a good one!
04:34.29 brlcad sounds good
04:34.35 brlcad thanks again, good stuff
04:34.41 brlcad already found one bug/typo :)
04:35.20 starseeker I've done worse for an evening ;-)
04:36.01 starseeker I'll probably wait on the ebuild until I'm sure my system is stable - I'm still trying to recover from that expat upgrade
04:36.25 starseeker I think another two days or so
04:36.34 brlcad cool
04:37.17 starseeker Thanks for all the work you've put in on this - great stuff!
04:37.46 brlcad it'll be awesome to finally have it in portage stable
04:37.48 starseeker (nosy question I can't resist) what are the schedule plans for the modeler?
04:39.36 brlcad it's on-going development as time permits .. when I'm not dealing with issues/releases/support I work on it, working towards a streamlined 'demo' or 'alpha' so devs can jump in and get involved easily
04:40.23 brlcad hoping by this fall to have something that will actually run and maybe show geometry with some basic functionality
04:40.30 starseeker neat. What language are you looking at?
04:41.09 brlcad the overarching design criteria is that it's being treated as if it were a commercial cross-platform game
04:41.38 starseeker "Run well everywhere effortlessly?"
04:41.49 brlcad C++ is the primary language, built on top of BRL-CAD's existing C libraries and binaries
04:42.46 starseeker Hmm. QT4 or WxWidgets sound like logical matches, although I have to admit a preference for QT4. Is VTK usable for modeling display?
04:43.24 brlcad there is a fundamental plugin/scripting interface that will provide bindings for several languages at runtime including python, tcl, and bash for starters (and maybe perl and lisp)
04:43.36 starseeker Lisp? COOOOL!
04:44.14 starseeker (ok, benchmark sent, I think.)
04:44.18 brlcad vtk is viable, though it's got a plethora of issues (would you expect any game to use vtk? :)
04:44.45 starseeker I must admit that's one thing I haven't seen it do yet ;-)
04:44.57 starseeker I think blender can develop games though
04:45.01 brlcad similar issue with wxwidgets
04:46.39 brlcad blender basically has a python runtime engine driving that game engine
04:46.47 starseeker Eeep.
04:47.42 starseeker So much for that then... does the c++ code in blender have anything useful?
04:48.06 brlcad some aspects potentially
04:49.06 starseeker http://www.blender.org/cms/typo3temp/pics/2123f2bd80.jpg is impressive enough, I guess
04:50.30 brlcad that's actually not that complex of a model
04:50.55 starseeker Wow.
04:51.13 starseeker I guess that stands to reason though - assembly lines and such have thousands of parts
04:51.25 brlcad they also don't deal at all with solid modeling really, there's no geometric guarantees, no ability to analyse the geometry correctly with guarantees
04:51.38 starseeker Ah.
04:51.56 brlcad just a bunch of surfaces
04:52.14 brlcad "mostly" connected, no insides, no concept of "material"
04:52.38 starseeker Ouch.
04:52.46 brlcad interferences, geometric construction for an analytic purpose
04:53.00 starseeker that all happens at the UI level?
04:53.24 brlcad there is some folks looking into adding CAD and solid modeling capabilities into blender, but the approach is rather fundamentally flawed
04:53.26 starseeker Well, I guess at a minimum you'd need the UI to be aware of it
04:53.40 brlcad what blender does have is a pretty mature UI
04:54.05 brlcad their target market though is more in line with products like maya and lightwave
04:54.20 brlcad you'd never think of using maya or lightwave in place of unigraphics or pro/engineer :)
04:54.29 brlcad though all four are "modelers"
04:55.00 starseeker So are unigraphics and pro/engineer kind of a "superset" of the maya/lightwave world?
04:55.12 brlcad not really
04:55.45 brlcad there are things that maya, lightwave and the sort do very very well that are practially not possible with a solid modeling system and vice versa
04:56.23 brlcad the focus is on easily making things that "look" good when rendered (e.g. for a movie)
04:56.45 brlcad so it doesn't matter if it's physically correct beyond basic behaviors and appaearance
04:56.54 starseeker Oh, so they have different optimizations in their design (the emphasis on surfaces)
04:57.06 brlcad solid modelers have the entirely opposite focus -- physical representation is paramount
04:57.50 starseeker so solid modelers don't handle things like surface reflectivity?
04:57.53 brlcad as the purpose is rarely just to make it look good -- usually the primary purpose is a simulation/analysis, or machining, or designing something that will be manufactured, etc
04:58.09 starseeker right
04:58.41 brlcad they can and most do as that's pretty based (brl-cad does for example), but it's not a major feature
04:58.57 starseeker OK.
04:59.46 starseeker Well, I've got a 6:30am meeting, so I'd better hit the hay :-) Thanks a lot for the help with basic ideas!
05:00.11 brlcad no problem, cheers!
13:56.20 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: usage of lt says 'lt object' yet if you actually type that you get a bus error.. nice.
13:57.11 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed asc-nmg manual page usage examples
13:58.14 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc-nmg.1: fixed asc-nmg manual page usage examples, it doesn't take stdin and output to stdout, but if you provide both file names it works (it will take stdin, but then you can't specify output file)
13:59.10 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bitv.c: ws
14:21.03 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c:
14:21.03 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: gah, don't reset the view scale.. it might have been specifically set to
14:21.03 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: something else. instead call do_ae() now instead of waiting for end. this
14:21.03 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: still doesn't work right as do_ae does its own autoview on the geometry and
14:21.03 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: resizes, but at least ae command doesn't override now
14:23.35 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: rt command script 'ae' no longer resets view scale
14:52.38 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
14:52.38 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: bigger, better vi command line editing in mged provided by james (swcto). this
14:52.38 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: adds command history searching as well as pretty much full vi-mode command
14:52.38 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: editing. (sf patch 1377410 - Bigger, Better vi command line editing)
14:54.07 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: james made it command edit history searching
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15:52.22 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: add support for the Mac delete key (backwards and forwards should work now). also fix vi command line editing mode history, quell warnings, pass null parameter.
15:53.54 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved support for Mac 'delete' keys in mged
15:56.42 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: prevent a bus error if read() returns -1 when reading from the provided file descriptor
16:01.11 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: set the default number of scrollback lines in mged to 10k instead of 1k
16:04.20 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:04.21 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: increase default mged line scrollback to 10,000 lines instead of the previous
16:04.21 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 1000.. too many commands and listings fill up the 1000 count. users can still
16:04.21 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: override that default on the fly in their .mgedrc or on the command line.
16:07.10 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove_term.c:
16:07.10 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: prevent jove from crashing on SGI Altix due to clamping the tgetstr pointer to
16:07.10 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 32-bit when it needs to be 64-bit. this requires actually including the right
16:07.10 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: headers so that tgetstr is properly declared, but declare it to what it should
16:07.10 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: be regardless since.. this is jove.
16:08.52 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ported jove to SGI Altix platform, fixed crash bug.
16:11.54 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: initialize a slew of uninitialized values using proper casts for the fastf_t types. uninitialized garbage was causing debug and runtime problems on altix
16:18.09 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: check and see if the eye point was set to something different than the look at point, otherwise choose a default 'front' view just to pick a direction. also, make sure rtip is valid before checking lists
17:08.39 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: additional testing files that need to get cleaned up
19:40.30 IriX64 guys whats am-refresh and does it matter if it didn't get built?
19:50.57 brlcad am-refresh is an internal automake rule that checks/updates the Makefiles if a dependency is updated (like editing a Makefile.am)
19:51.51 brlcad it shouldn't be necessary at all
19:54.30 IriX64 thankyou
20:22.38 IriX64 brb
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23:08.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/grid.c:
23:08.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Fix for bug #1233930 (grid zoom out hangs)
23:08.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Problem was integer overflow.
23:08.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Fix was to check for negative integer. A better algorithm for deciding when
23:08.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the grid should not be drawn is needed here.
23:12.36 brlcad and john continues to rock
23:38.10 ``Erik the man is an artist
23:41.18 ``Erik I wish he woulda taken his vsip and had a little fun :/
23:51.22 ``Erik he coulda bought that solstace he wanted outright, heh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060623

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060623

01:15.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/grid.c:
01:15.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Improved algorithm for deciding when to not draw the grid. Now compares pixel size to
01:15.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: grid spacing instead of calculating number of dots.
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02:05.08 ``Erik jra is starting to skeer me.
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16:22.36 IriX64 well ive compiled my brlcad-7.8.0, now how do i use it?
16:25.29 IriX64 mged comes up and so does the graphics window.
16:25.59 IriX64 tried to load moss.g and it loaded but i cant see it.
16:27.48 IriX64 ahooga klaxon ahooga is any body home?
16:28.54 IriX64 ah i see, my clientt throws you.
16:29.45 IriX64 ill return with something more to your liking.
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16:42.34 IriX64 id really like to see this world on a platter guys.
17:03.32 brlcad run 'tops' to get a list of the top-level geometry
17:03.38 brlcad then run 'e something' to display one of them
17:04.11 brlcad highly recommended (pretty much required) that you go through the tutorials on the website http://brlcad.org
17:04.11 IriX64 thankyou.
17:04.47 brlcad moss world isn't incredibly exciting.. :) more interesting might be havoc
17:08.22 IriX64 loaded galileo
17:08.22 IriX64 thanks i will go thru those tutorials.
17:08.22 IriX64 should be able to raytrace these right?
17:10.09 IriX64 beautiful
17:19.59 ``Erik ya missed lunch, sean :D jra joined
18:43.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: add James (swcto - someone who cares) to the list of code contributors for his work on the mged vi mode enhancements
18:47.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: finish up the list of expectations with a rule zero utilizing a concept from Hippocrates' Epidemics: contributors are expected to help, or at least to do no harm.
19:15.52 IriX64 how do you render ms. April ;)
19:16.54 brlcad rendering her is easy, getting ahold of her .g file is what can be tricky ;)
19:17.37 IriX64 it's all in the attitude :)
19:20.36 IriX64 awwww man, pdf files? ill just bug you :)
19:22.36 IriX64 whats the gist of all that licensing stuff, in a nutshell.
19:46.23 brlcad what licensing stuff?
19:46.53 brlcad what would you rather have seen over pdf files? the tutorials are books
19:47.41 brlcad you can actually get them in printed versions too, but the pdfs are provided for convenience
20:09.09 IriX64 hah i was just kidding about the pdf stuff but the licence for example can i sell binaries?
20:10.12 IriX64 I know the source cant be charged for but the binaries *I* produce can i charge for them?
20:10.13 ``Erik http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html covers the gpl parts of it, I THINK that's the most stringent license used in that regard?
20:14.59 IriX64 ah ok i can "distribute free software for a fee" neat.
20:16.43 IriX64 gotta run , may I return later?
20:18.45 ``Erik no, no you may not!
20:18.46 ``Erik heh
20:19.29 archivist generally expected to be the cost of distribution, does he think he is going to get rich
20:46.39 brlcad probably
20:49.45 ``Erik sean, HACKING :471 doesn't seem worded right o.O should it be something like "inside parens"?
21:00.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: heh, around means immediately inside -- go figure. give a couple more examples while we're at it.
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22:12.46 IriX64 regards again.
22:16.28 IriX64 did we ever figure out a way to unlock ms. aprils .g file ;)
22:18.50 IriX64 make
22:19.09 IriX64 fark :(
22:21.30 IriX64 cleverly programmed into each make session is a trip to the px for refreshments :)
22:22.25 IriX64 in other words i'll be back in 30.
22:47.47 IriX64 good sandwich, should have stayed longer.
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22:52.35 IriX64 is that pdp11/70 in the screen shot of muss working on the pdp still active?
23:00.41 brlcad IriX64: no, it was decommissioned a few years ago
23:00.55 IriX64 really, what do you use now?
23:00.56 brlcad pieces of it are still available
23:01.08 IriX64 ill take the switch panel :)
23:02.14 IriX64 retired tho.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060624

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060624

02:08.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt:
02:08.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Fill in ALL of the description details about BRL-CAD including different length
02:08.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: description formats useful when preparing materials for informational websites,
02:08.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: software distribution sites, package management systems, release announcement
02:08.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: materials, and more. includes links to frequently needed materials like the
02:08.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: trackers, keywords/categories, and details on how to correctly refer to the
02:08.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: project and even how to pronounce BRL-CAD.
02:12.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README:
02:12.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: rewrite the introduction, using the new doc/description.txt details. now
02:12.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: includes the portability heritage and portability details, details on the
02:12.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: geometry representation types, and expanded details on what is provided
02:12.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: tool-wise
02:24.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL:
02:24.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: too many impatient folks don't actually read the Installing from Binary section
02:24.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and try to run configure/autogen.sh on a binary distribution so try to make it
02:24.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: more clear up-front in the Quick Installation section, and move the binary
02:24.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: instructions up higher in the file.
02:37.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: a quick means to generate a testing suite for all binaries with a little scripting
02:59.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the mged hang caused by extreme grid zooming bug (sf bug #1233930). Problem was integer overflow, Fix was to check for negative integer.
03:03.45 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john continues to rock, provided improved mged grid zooming using pixel size to grid spacing instead of calculating the number of dots. this was a follow up to sf bug #1233930.
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11:25.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/rcs2log: add rcs2log for convenience, pulled from the cvs contrib directory, in case the local system doesn't happen to have rcs2log available.
11:26.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: include cvs2cl.pl and rcs2log in source distributions
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15:40.23 igotbsd Hi All
15:42.23 igotbsd I'm googling for a dual cpu mobo to run fbsd and brlcad on, and it seems to me that several models of Tyan are in the money, any suggestions?, TIA
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17:01.49 IriX64 regards.
17:02.11 IriX64 you were right Havoc.g is far more interesting :)
17:04.13 IriX64 total time to raytrace = 40 seconds, not bad at all.
17:05.22 IriX64 rendering to the tube, gotta love it.
17:05.54 IriX64 hahaha a glass plotter, oy vey.
17:07.02 IriX64 if only u could see my screen when i bring it up, you would i think like it.
17:08.23 IriX64 busily compiling my latest attempt.
17:09.41 IriX64 sigh 45 minute compile, and another ten minutes to install.
17:13.49 IriX64 i think i'll take that coffee break you guys compiled into brlcad :)
17:49.04 ``Erik get a faster machine? heh
17:50.19 IriX64 man shes a 2.4 AMD64 model 3800+
17:52.13 IriX64 but shes installing it now
17:52.30 IriX64 man i broke your havoc, i put a pipe in the blades :(
17:53.00 IriX64 you were right moss.g is less impressive.
17:53.13 IriX64 still wanna see april.g tho ;)
17:53.35 IriX64 castle is nice
18:03.56 ``Erik ktank, w00t
19:17.29 IriX64 ktank w33t
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060625

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060625

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08:38.52 IriX64 ms april sends a sloppy wet kiss :)
08:40.51 IriX64 brlcad rocks and rolls, kudos to ypu people.
09:50.54 IriX64 is BrlCad-7.9.0 acceptable as a new version number? :)
10:49.31 IriX64 make install
10:49.44 IriX64 sorry.
10:50.17 IriX64 have you read Fatso?
10:50.20 IriX64 :)
10:51.10 IriX64 you know the admiral in charge of the incerator on the aircraft carrier ;)
10:51.58 IriX64 you should see my dirty tricks squad. :)
11:04.20 IriX64 cd /usr/brlcad/bin
11:04.38 IriX64 :(
13:45.12 brlcad heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060626

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060626

02:02.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: (log message trimmed)
02:02.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Add an initial PAD template file for BRL-CAD. The version and date details are
02:02.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: filled in by configure so that the file doesn't have to keep getting updated
02:02.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: (needs more work) during release time. This file is used by a lot of on-line
02:02.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: distribution sites (predominantly by shareware distributors, but others
02:02.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: including open source too), so that it is easier to add the package to those
02:02.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: on-line distribution sites. PAD is Portable Application Description, an XML
02:04.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add pad_file.xml.in to the dist and clean up after it on a distclean
02:05.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: calculate the day, month, year individually so that they may be substituted into autoconf template files. add doc/pad_file.xml to the list of generated files
02:07.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: clone is a priority for end-of-iteration, anything else is going to be gravy
02:08.49 *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
02:11.40 brlcad ~topic restore 1
02:11.40 *** topic/#brlcad by ibot -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th
02:12.17 *** topic/#brlcad by ibot -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
02:41.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: er, unless i'm blind, there's no difference between the _WIN32 and non-_WIN32 section. collapse into one
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14:36.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: comment that db_getmrec loads records into a buffer in v4 format
15:21.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
15:21.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: begin efforts to port clone and tracker towards supporting v5 databases. the
15:21.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: db_getmrec() function and associated union records are v4 specific structures
15:21.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: that don't apply to v5 so it basically needs to be reimplemented from scratch..
15:21.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: start by initializing all pointers to NULL and getting rid of the useless
15:21.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: propagation of ClientData.
15:23.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: ws
16:01.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
16:01.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: another restructuring step. propagate a resource pointer for librt and don't
16:01.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: pass around the tcl interpreter directly so that we can use thses functions
16:01.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: directly as db_functree callbacks (instead stash the interp into our state
16:01.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: client data structure).
16:26.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
16:26.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: one more restructuring step, this time propagating the dbip so that the copy_
16:26.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: functions have the right signature to be used as a db_functree callback.
16:26.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: instead of proliferating the usage of the dbip global pointer even further, only
16:26.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the top-level hook functions use the global then all other routines are using
16:26.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the one passed as an argument (denoted with _dbip instead of dbip to avoid
16:26.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: shadowing).
18:08.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update with latest BRL-CAD logo.
18:30.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Tweaks for IVAVIEW/Sdb mode. Modify the importFg4Sections method (i.e. no longer calling _select_node).
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060627

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060627

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14:25.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: Minor fix in log_event for _WIN32.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060628

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060628

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060629

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060629

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12:26.24 Open2000 hello, surprized to see so much users on this channel :)
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12:40.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the option to show viewing parameters in the display window.
12:44.33 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Modified the ae method to call the view object's ae command when getting the azel.
12:46.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added code for displaying the viewing parameters.
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16:51.08 digitalfredy brlcad, ping
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21:07.24 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060630

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060630

00:19.42 ``Erik http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/2006-June/047380.html
00:35.35 ``Erik http://qreeves.blogspot.com/2006/04/rob-levins-feenode.html
00:35.36 ``Erik o.O
00:35.39 brlcad that's just wrong
00:39.51 brlcad it's the MS-equivalence of software FUD taken to a personal level
00:40.32 brlcad lilo spends a LOT of time working on the network, it's just in ways many don't understand or at least appreciate
00:42.22 ``Erik *shrug* I'm getting these from people who've fled...
00:42.27 brlcad the second one is hilarious.. he created a bot to join all the channels, got lots of complaints from others on the network and then now screams bloody murder when they got fed up with his opt-out bot joining every channel on the network
00:42.32 ``Erik he lurks in #scheme, but I don't follow this network
00:42.59 brlcad i've interacted with lilo quite a lot over the years
00:43.06 brlcad even talked to him on the phone for a while
00:44.54 brlcad pretty straightforward guy with a vision for the network, dealing mostly with things from a "division" level if you get my meaning -- the problem with most have is that he doesn't have the geeky upbringing (which makes him pretty good at the management side in this instance imho)
00:45.24 brlcad and he wants to fully fund this operation, starting from the top with himself, which most see as him just being lazy
00:47.03 brlcad this network is contrary to most irc network "purists" (i.e. anarchists) too, and therein lies a huge taste of hatred fodder for a vast majority that didn't expect it
00:47.24 brlcad he's seen as "the man" who puts them down when they don't get what they wanted/expected
00:48.45 ``Erik <-- is an efnetter, born and raised... :/
00:49.01 brlcad services and staff are centralized, global notices, chan/nickserv's, all fuel for those that just don't get it -- those are things that I appreciate from the network actually, they are part of what make it sane for reasonable software development discussion
00:49.20 brlcad even efnet is starting to centralize somewhat.. :)
00:49.27 brlcad they're just way slower at it
00:49.41 brlcad and have a lot more to fight and less reason to go that direction
00:51.59 brlcad the biggest complaint I see and agreewith on the network is the changing of channel name convention to convey a classification
00:52.26 brlcad the ## crap is rather counterproductive and useless imo
00:54.57 brlcad GAH!..
00:55.17 brlcad why am I just now finding out about the FreeBSD Documentation License...
00:57.36 brlcad hmm.. they're apparently not listed on the free content license list..
01:00.19 ``Erik cuz osi is a pack of gpl felating lamers? :D
01:01.14 ``Erik damn I talk to some retarded people
01:01.38 brlcad actually, even here.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_content
01:01.58 brlcad unless i'm just not seeing it
01:02.16 brlcad hmm, it is listed on the gnu site, but I must have missed it there
01:02.36 brlcad i'm not entirely content with brl-cad's current licensing on the documentation
01:05.53 ``Erik what are they now? the gnu doc license?
01:06.02 brlcad dual-licensed
01:06.08 ``Erik ... being?
01:06.08 ``Erik :D
01:06.14 brlcad gfdl and gpl
01:06.25 ``Erik looked at 'creative commons license'?
01:07.12 brlcad yeah
01:07.40 brlcad heh, it's funny if you read gnu.org they are quite at odds with not putting the CC license up there that ARE compatible
01:07.46 brlcad just bitching about the ones that aren't :)
01:08.24 ``Erik read anything on the most recent stink against the gpl?
01:08.39 ``Erik "all things on linux must be gpl'd"?
01:17.30 brlcad no, haven't
01:17.37 brlcad who's purporting that?
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16:27.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: archer enhancements for displaying view parameters and updated archer splash screen from Bob
16:44.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs: file didn't exist before 2005
16:47.45 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: s/\n/\x0D\x0A/g i.e. convert the UNIX line endings to DOS line endings. this is needed to make the MSVC6 Studio environment happy -- converted per Daniel's insight.
16:54.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/ (brlcad.def brlcad.dsp brlcad.rc): s/\n/\x0D\x0A/g i.e. convert the UNIX line endings to DOS line endings. this is needed to make the MSVC6 Studio environment happy -- converted per Daniel's insight.
17:16.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/dd_protocols/Makefile.am: Add tclIndex to brlcadscript_SCRIPTS.
17:18.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/Makefile.am: Add pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex to brlcadscript_SCRIPTS.
17:20.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/pkgIndex.tcl: Change default library path.
17:25.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: Do a "package require" using BLT instead of blt for all platforms. If this works out, I need to come back and remove the conditional.
17:27.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Makefile.am: Added ShaderEdit.tcl to scripts.
17:30.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff.
17:33.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. Also, if'out the prompt about hiding objects.
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20:27.43 IriX64 wheres the brlcad help channel or is this it?
20:46.27 brlcad this is it
20:46.46 IriX64 thankyou, gotta run.
20:46.48 brlcad anything and everything related to brl-cad
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060701

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060701

00:04.24 ``Erik ...
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09:30.59 *** join/#brlcad chinamill (n=chinamil@h99n1c1o1110.bredband.skanova.com)
10:02.26 chinamill is there any nice support of making toolpaths and export to g-code with brlcad?
13:10.53 ``Erik I don't believe so... one of the developers was working on a seperate tool called "gcam" to generate gcode...
13:12.30 ``Erik http://gcam.js.cx/
13:47.58 chinamill Thanks for the tip Erik!
15:18.03 brlcad chinamill: i can corroborate that as well.. there's not a means to directly export g-code with brl-cad right now, would be cool if someone added the support but it's not a trivial task and not high on the priority list atm
15:18.54 *** join/#brlcad cradek (n=chris@pdpc/supporter/active/cradek)
15:19.07 brlcad hello cradek
15:19.11 cradek hi all
15:20.00 cradek I'm a newbie to brlcad, and sorry if everyone says this, but I'm having problems compiling it, is there documentation other than http://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html I should be looking at?
15:20.25 brlcad cradek: definitely -- see the INSTALL file for more comprehensive install instructions
15:20.25 cradek (I get an autoheader failure from autogen.sh in step 2)
15:20.48 brlcad there may also be a doc/README.[some_platform] file for your system with some details too
15:21.06 brlcad autoheader failure.. wow
15:21.27 brlcad run ./autogen.sh --verbose
15:21.49 cradek running, I'll put the output on pastebin
15:24.01 cradek http://pastebin.dyndns.org/305
15:24.03 brlcad for what it's worth, autogen.sh failure generally just means there's something wrong with your installed build tools (like an insufficient version of something in the GNU build system)
15:24.22 cradek I am a longtime unix developer but have little experience with auto tools
15:24.26 brlcad strictly speaking, if you're working from a source distribution (non-cvs), then you shouldn't need to run autogen.sh
15:24.51 brlcad i.e. if you have a big ass configure file in the top level, then you probably don't need to run autogen.sh
15:25.09 brlcad autogen.sh is only required if you've checked out from cvs or really just want to fully "start fresh"
15:25.15 cradek ok, I am using cvs so far, if this isn't easy to fix I'll use a source distribution
15:25.33 chinamill there is no rpm:s or similar?
15:26.04 brlcad ahh.. configure.ac:1: error: possibly undefined macro: dnl
15:27.05 brlcad that means autoconf install is somehow hosed or exceptionally old or running in 2.13 mode
15:27.28 cradek Checking autoconf version: autoconf --version
15:27.28 cradek Found GNU Autoconf version 2.59
15:28.00 brlcad this wouldn't happen to be debian sarge would it?
15:28.07 cradek ubuntu 5.10 breezy
15:28.14 cradek so ... sort of
15:28.32 brlcad debian used to have a very broken autoconf wrapper script
15:28.50 brlcad if you ran it directly, it would report the right version, then proceed to invoke the 2.13 autoconf
15:29.19 brlcad that's sort of what seems like is going on here too
15:29.54 brlcad another possibility is that you're simply missing the .m4 files for autoconf
15:30.18 cradek I'll remove the autoconf2.13 package and hope for the best then
15:30.28 brlcad if you have any other system that you can run autogen.sh on, that would also work -- it doesn't have to be run on the same machine, it can be run on any machine
15:31.49 brlcad have to run out for a bit, bbl if you still have more issues autogen.sh'ing
15:32.14 cradek no change when I remove autoconf2.13
15:32.45 brlcad then it must be some other misconfiguration (like the misplaced/uninstalled m4 files)
15:33.23 brlcad someone in #ubuntu might have an idea as it used to be incredibly frequent when sarge was popular
15:33.36 cradek ok thank you
15:33.40 brlcad np
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15:40.45 chinamill ``Erik: do you have a emailadress for the gcam person?
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15:51.00 fenn yum yum
15:51.07 fenn so whats all this about gcam?
15:51.37 fenn is it one of the brlcad developers?
15:54.06 chinamill ``Erik said so
16:14.56 ``Erik phark, whud ah miss?
16:15.12 ``Erik the url doesn't have an email addy?
16:16.07 fenn theres no contact info or anything substantial on the web page at all
16:19.08 ``Erik huh
16:22.25 ``Erik I sent him an aim msg, *shrug* he might not want to be bugged about it, or he might be interested in soliciting ideas and/or effort... but I wanna verify with him before doin' anything, ok?
16:22.50 Twingy hey
16:23.28 chinamill ``Erik: he is more than welcome to join #emc
16:23.37 fenn it just seems weird to put up a webpage about an open source project and have no source code or download available
16:23.59 Twingy it says it'll be avail in aug
16:26.16 ``Erik heh
16:26.43 ``Erik :)
16:28.06 ``Erik twingy, you dont' have any wintergreen oil, do you?
16:29.17 Twingy no
16:29.41 Twingy got some WD40 though
16:30.03 ``Erik tried it, bolts won't budge
16:30.18 Twingy use a can of coke?
16:30.40 ``Erik haven't tried that yet... supposedly wintergreen is the best, and vinegar is really good, with coke being somewhere below vinegar
16:30.47 Twingy if you can figure out a way to let them soak in a pan for 30 minutes
16:31.04 Twingy duct tape it, whatever
16:31.14 ``Erik so I'm thinking about taking a cup of vinegar out with a brush, or mebbe rubber banding a soaked paper towel
16:31.24 fenn turpentine
16:31.32 fenn kroil is stupposed to be the best
16:31.57 Twingy what are you guys planning to use gcam for?
16:32.14 fenn making parts :)
16:32.20 ``Erik and my dad was a jet mechanic for 20 yrs and a car mechanic before that, so I kinda trust him when he says wintergreen is the hshizzle forrizle
16:32.35 ``Erik parts for what? :)
16:33.13 fenn well, a cnc machine, some hydraulic valves for a robot, turbine engine parts, foam cores for composite layup
16:33.20 fenn and on and on and on
16:33.47 ``Erik hobbyist? or work? (if you dont' mind my asking)
16:34.01 fenn i'm self employed but i dont make any money.. how's that
16:34.19 ``Erik ah, heh... "interested student" ;) *duck*
16:34.46 fenn though honestly gcam is not doing things the way i would have done them
16:34.59 ``Erik huh, mind if I ask?
16:35.36 fenn well the heart of a cam system is the toolpath planning algorithms
16:36.04 fenn he seems to be starting off with basic stuff like 3d rendering
16:36.28 ``Erik hm, 3d rendering, or basic object description?
16:36.56 ``Erik <-- kinda thinks that tool path is one of those problems that the machine can solve and optimize, just tell it what shape you want to have and let it figure the way to make it...
16:38.09 fenn i just think it would be smarter to use an already existing library for the 3d data structures and math
16:38.52 fenn that's why i was asking all these questions about brlcad's libbn and such
16:40.02 ``Erik math is well understood and reasonably easy to implement, tho... I mean, you can slap together solid vector and matrix functions in half a day of mindless work, so why induce a dependancy?
16:40.12 fenn lol
16:40.21 ``Erik <-- very much likes the idea of libraries, btw, is playing devils advocate
16:41.27 fenn is there any interest in STEP import for brlcad?
16:41.56 ``Erik in a decent operating system with a decent software install concept, dependancies are a non-issue... on fbsd, just type "make install" and it does it's think... :) I wouldn't mind seeing tcl and tk and itcl/itk, libpng, libz, etc ripped out of the brlcad distro...
16:42.07 ``Erik what's "step"? I'm quite ignyant on these things, btw...
16:42.23 fenn the file format to end all file formats
16:42.29 ``Erik my major contribution so far has been redoing the build system, I don't have the foggiest clue how to model shit :)
16:42.46 ``Erik that sounds... slightly biased.
16:42.56 fenn for cad systems, it's sorta XML and is extendable to cover all aspects of cad/cae/cam
16:43.23 ``Erik although I'm quite sure if someone were to provide the g-step and step-g program patch... it would be appreciated :)
16:43.33 SWPadnos fenn, have you actually seen a STEP file spec? (I thought you had to pay, like ISO standards)
16:43.59 fenn SWPadnos: there is a free "express schema" which is the basic xml description
16:44.05 SWPadnos ah, OK
16:44.08 fenn and also you can get preliminary standards for free
16:44.18 fenn i havent actually sat down and looked at either of them
16:45.05 fenn there is a nist project to convert express to xml
16:45.35 ``Erik interoperability is generally a good thing *shrug* if you wanna code, go to it, and we'll even help ya some by answering questions when we can... if what you produce isn't shit, it may get accepted into the project... :)
16:45.48 fenn heh thanks
16:46.02 fenn i'm pretty new to XML and 3d programming in general
16:49.14 ``Erik ok, if you have questions that you can't find through basic research, let us know, but dont' be offended if we tell you to go read manual XYZ :)
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16:58.16 ``Erik (ohyeah, and if you do ask a question, be patient... it could be over 24 hours before you get a response... but some of us DO read all the backlog)
17:00.16 fenn are there logs of #brlcad anywhere?
20:01.36 brlcad Twingy: you see that bike?
20:03.16 brlcad fenn: yes, there is considerable interest in STEP import -- there was work that started on a step library about a year ago, but the lead guy pushing the effort disappeared
20:04.00 brlcad fenn: for what it's worth, we also have copies of the STEP standard that we can use for anything specifically related to BRL-CAD
20:04.16 brlcad (AP203, AP214, and a few others)
20:04.38 brlcad ~logs
20:04.39 ibot apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly"
20:16.15 *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
20:19.08 brlcad howdy dan
20:19.52 brlcad seems as though much of #emc woke up today and decided to go on a field trip ..
20:21.02 dan_falck hi brlcad
20:21.08 dan_falck yes we did
20:21.26 dan_falck we are interested in gcam, which we think is related to brlcad
20:21.48 dan_falck fenn and SWPadnos probably are very interested
20:21.55 dan_falck cradek too
20:22.14 dan_falck Twingy, is gcam your program?
20:22.23 brlcad not really related to brl-cad other than it's Twingy's project and he's somewhat related to brl-cad ;)
20:22.34 dan_falck ok
20:22.44 dan_falck fenn, did you get that?
20:22.49 brlcad i.e. it shares no code or functionality, doesn't link to any of brl-cad's libs last I looked unless he changed something :)
20:23.29 dan_falck how are you doing these days?
20:23.37 brlcad pretty well, keeping busy
20:23.59 dan_falck same here. Taking a short break from building a deck
20:24.13 brlcad the blasted windows port took up an enormous amount of time, just starting to get back into more useful development
20:24.31 dan_falck we still don't use windows at the shop where I work
20:24.35 dan_falck OS X
20:24.39 dan_falck and linux
20:24.44 brlcad likewise
20:24.59 brlcad cept for the desk junkies, analysts
20:25.13 dan_falck makes it hard to find a CAM program, hence the intense interest in anythin cam related
20:25.15 brlcad but not the modelers, developers, and other tech
20:25.37 dan_falck the owner of our company said that we would NEVER use windows
20:25.42 dan_falck and so far so good
20:25.46 brlcad yeah, i was talking to him about making his g-code thing a more general purpose library so that I could hook into it in brl-cad
20:25.53 dan_falck cool
20:26.21 brlcad well, it would be cool -- depends how much interest gcam in general gets will probably determine if he does
20:26.51 fenn sorry i was ignoring irc due to a troll on another channel
20:26.58 brlcad yay, trolls
20:27.06 dan_falck probably about 20 people from #emc would be interested
20:27.20 brlcad how many of those 20 are users and how many are devs? :)
20:27.24 fenn ooo yes i wouldnt mind getting my hands on the "real" standard
20:27.38 fenn i've been drowning in complicated standard draft documents all day long
20:27.48 brlcad fenn: heh, you and half the industry
20:27.58 fenn its only like $60 isnt it?
20:28.07 brlcad those damn standards are rather expensive for just about any non-commercial use
20:28.14 dan_falck fenn could probably tell you how many are developers in the EMC group
20:28.32 fenn there are really only like 5 or 6 active developers
20:28.59 fenn everyone's in the same boat though
20:29.13 brlcad fenn: i forget the details, but the 5 or 6 APs of STEP that I have were somewhere in the 1-2k range, iso lists the costs iirc
20:30.00 brlcad which is one part how it's cool that we at least have them to go on, makes it a heck of a lot easier to make an open source library out of them in a manner that anyone could then use
20:30.13 brlcad without needing to buy their own copy
20:30.42 fenn oh wow
20:30.56 dan_falck fenn: so now we know that gcam is Twingy's program.
20:31.19 fenn ap203 and ap214 are the ones i was interested in
20:31.25 fenn and step-nc whatever that is
20:31.36 fenn looking at the file format it doesnt seem too complicated really
20:31.40 brlcad to get the COMPLETE iso spec for STEP, it's roughly in the 10-15k range and would fill at least one 20' library shelf if printed
20:31.50 fenn its all the buzzwordage that is hard to dig through
20:32.09 brlcad 203 and 214 are by far the most interesting, though little ones like 11 and 21 become handy when writing a parser
20:32.53 fenn i would like to make a portable library that could be used in more than just brlcad
20:33.34 brlcad it's a shame that the dev that was working on it ran off, he was making good progress
20:34.26 brlcad had taken over the nist parser, updated to the latest step spec, got it working more cross-platform, got it parsing some example step files
20:34.52 fenn it wasnt terry hancock was it?
20:34.56 brlcad all pretty low level still, no hook functionality
20:35.15 fenn i've been reading this over and over, trying to psych myself up: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/free_matter_economy_4?page=0%2C2
20:35.41 brlcad heh, it was a terry
20:35.46 fenn awesome
20:35.53 brlcad but afaik, his last name wasn't hancock
20:36.07 brlcad ridder according to sf project account
20:36.11 fenn oh
20:36.29 fenn he wrote a bunch of stuff about a "gnu cad/cam" a long time ago
20:37.10 brlcad vaguely remember
20:37.29 brlcad i've read some other stuff from hancock, mostly good ideas but definitely not ridder
20:37.32 fenn oh man sourceforge is so pathetic
20:38.10 brlcad ridder is a rather bitter guy that doesn't like object oriented designs in general, so somehow I doubt he'd be pushing for a python layer that converts step to xml :)
20:39.12 brlcad he seemed to like lower level libraries, straightforward simple C apis
20:39.36 fenn i actually dont know which is more appropriate for a file format library
20:40.22 brlcad i like and agree with most of hancock's ideas, though there's a reason step wasn't done in xml (and it's not because it predated xml or anything)
20:40.43 fenn why is that, do you know?
20:40.49 brlcad the spirit of that article I like, though a lot of the technical detail is less than appealing
20:41.16 fenn making a new language to describe a file format seems kinda overboard
20:41.25 fenn or maybe i'm missing something
20:41.44 brlcad several reasons it wasn't but probably the most significant one that comes to mind is that step is effectively meant to be the combination of every CAD/CAM/CADD vendor's needs
20:42.18 fenn and xml isnt complex enough? :)
20:42.35 brlcad and for a huge subset of those area domains, encoding their data into xml is a non-starter due to utter information explosion (about two orders of magnitude)
20:42.47 brlcad express is pretty complicated in itself
20:42.57 brlcad but it's somewhat more condensed than xml
20:42.59 fenn i thought the schema was just a description of the file format
20:43.36 fenn is there like "introduction to the STEP thingy" document somewhere
20:43.48 brlcad yeah, there's an AP for it that you can buy :)
20:44.12 brlcad there's minimal good on-line resources on step
20:44.30 brlcad a few industry articles give an intro on it, should be easily found with a search
20:44.36 fenn i've skimmed through 23 out of 1600 folders..
20:44.50 fenn i read some modern machine shop articles
20:45.17 fenn in fact i dont even care why they did it
20:45.19 brlcad helps if you toss in the numerical standard id
20:45.23 brlcad i.e. iso 10303
20:45.35 fenn yeah those 1600 are all about 10303
20:45.56 fenn http://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Work_Products_Documents/STEP_(10303)/
20:46.18 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10303
20:47.34 brlcad ug, sc4 is an iso parrot, that's article's about as well written as the step APs themselves
20:48.21 brlcad this one isn't too bad: http://www.mel.nist.gov/msidlibrary/doc/jcise1.pdf
20:49.30 brlcad nist has a load of useful information, they dumped a lot of time and resources into step about a decade ago that they have given to the community since
20:49.38 fenn hm - the development of step is one of the largest efforts ever undertaken by ISO
20:49.49 brlcad i'd believe that
20:50.44 brlcad the standard really is utterly enormous and complex as it covers just about every single aspect of dealing with a "product"
20:50.57 fenn i've noticed :)
20:51.02 brlcad from designing it to creating it to selling and distributing or analysing it, etc
20:51.31 brlcad not just the computer geometric representation, that's just one small part of it
20:51.48 brlcad (hence the 203 and 214.. there really are hundreds of protocols)
20:54.59 fenn sometimes i think they must be joking with some of these flowcharts
20:56.36 brlcad sadly, they usually are not
20:57.54 brlcad since it's almost entirely industry driven, "most" presentations and write-ups aren't meant to be "easy" or "clear" -- they're worked on by people that are paid to do so and often the more verbose or the more obscure, the better they're doing their job ;)
20:58.19 fenn well it makes me laugh regardless
20:58.30 fenn maybe i'll feel differently once i get my hands dirty
20:58.50 brlcad just seeing the iso spec makes me cry sometimes
20:59.12 brlcad reading it makes baby seals die I think
20:59.43 fenn do you notice signs of rectal bleeding after a protracted coding session :)
21:00.15 brlcad hehe
21:26.41 Twingy yea I saw the bike
21:26.51 Twingy it'll be a while before its out though
21:27.24 Twingy and unless they are using non-standard materials for the proton exchange membrane then it's likely to cost $10k or so
21:27.46 Twingy and all that will get you is about 1HP
21:36.24 brlcad that's odd.. it's supposed to be shipping already
21:36.42 Twingy that would be company suicide
21:36.56 Twingy they are looking for manuf partners
21:37.09 brlcad it was in a best new product of the year list
21:37.11 Twingy and like I said, unless they can figure out how to get rid of the platinum and graphite manuf process...
21:37.23 Twingy it's a great product, just not practical from an economic stand point
21:37.38 brlcad i'd get one even at 10k
21:37.52 Twingy I would to if I had the money
21:37.56 Twingy *too
21:37.58 brlcad unless it was unusable on the interstate, but it didn't seem like that was the case
21:38.20 Twingy wait a few years, a substitute catalyst will be researched
21:38.31 Twingy I bet you that bike doesn't exceed 30mph
21:38.33 brlcad you'll have it all sorted out by then? :)
21:38.41 Twingy me? no, some university
21:38.45 brlcad heh
21:39.02 Twingy to give you an idea
21:39.06 Twingy fuelcellstore.com
21:39.12 Twingy look at the prices of those fuel cell stacks
21:39.18 Twingy that store skims about 10% off the top
21:39.50 Twingy 1 HP on that will get you 25 - 30mph (~750W)
21:40.00 Twingy look how much a 750W fuel cell costs
21:40.28 Twingy now factor in the cost of the bike and shipping
21:41.07 Twingy figure you have some group in china building those for $5/hr
21:41.28 Twingy best case scenario you're at $10k in a mass production
21:41.45 brlcad most bikes are 10-30k
21:42.05 brlcad so for something "high end" niche like this, I wouldn't be surprised if it were 30-50k
21:42.08 Twingy you can get many gas crotch rocket bikes for $5-$6k
21:42.15 Twingy and they do 100mph, not 25 - 30 mph
21:42.15 brlcad not new
21:42.19 Twingy yes new
21:42.28 Twingy I almost bought a suzuki
21:42.34 Twingy I'll pull up the url if you like
21:42.38 brlcad nah
21:42.39 Twingy I actually sat on it
21:42.44 Twingy went to bel air to check it out
21:42.48 brlcad for 6k?
21:42.51 Twingy right next to the mexican place
21:42.54 Twingy $5,995
21:42.58 brlcad that's crazy.. how many cycles?
21:42.59 Twingy yellow and blue
21:43.16 Twingy they have about 50 in that shop
21:43.33 Twingy gets ~50mpg
21:44.09 Twingy the #1 problem with fuel cells right now is the catalyst, platinum is just too expensive
21:44.50 Twingy I am 100% confident fuel cells will take off, but they need to be re-engineered slightly
21:45.06 Twingy they are 2 - 4x more energy dense than lithium polymer batteries
21:45.17 Twingy 1800psi - 3200psi respectively
21:46.09 Twingy and that's at 50% efficiency (standard)
21:47.10 Twingy btw, investing in platinum over the next few years is not a bad idea
21:56.52 Twingy time for my run, bbl
23:00.54 Twingy back
23:19.04 dan_falck Twingy: is gcam yours?
23:20.49 Twingy yes
23:21.46 dan_falck there are a few of us from the #emc channel interested in it
23:22.02 Twingy great
23:22.12 dan_falck so august release then?
23:22.13 Twingy I use it on my taig cnc
23:22.39 dan_falck cool
23:22.50 Twingy yea, some time in aug, I'll be doing alot of traveling in the next month, AZ, IL, MA, NJ
23:23.05 Twingy 6 weeks actually
23:23.31 dan_falck would you be game for a few us playing with it before then?
23:23.57 Twingy I can't guarantee it compiles on anything other than freebsd right now
23:24.17 dan_falck that's ok. we're used to the challenge
23:24.23 Twingy it requires gtk+, opengl, automake/conf
23:24.32 dan_falck ok
23:24.48 Twingy k, poke me tonight, I've been working through a todo list all day on it
23:24.58 dan_falck ok thanks
23:25.15 Twingy I'll give you the 5 minute break down on what it is and what it is not
23:25.19 dan_falck fenn will be happy too ;)
23:25.22 dan_falck ok
23:25.46 Twingy don't expect it to rival mastercam or anything, ttyl
23:25.57 dan_falck that's ok
23:27.41 dan_falck I need to go out and work on the deck. bbl
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060702

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060702

00:48.36 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
02:32.32 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:46.08 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:07.13 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305091.sympatico.ca)
03:08.12 dan_falck Twingy: are you around?
03:12.54 Twingy yes
03:13.37 dan_falck you are using freebsd
03:13.57 Twingy 6.0-RELEASE FreeBSD
03:14.50 dan_falck ok. I'm on a mac right now, but could set up another machine with the same thing that you are using
03:15.10 Twingy I'm currently debugging gcam, now is probably not the best time
03:15.11 dan_falck I have several linux boxes in my garage right now
03:15.17 dan_falck ok thanks
03:15.52 Twingy some time over the next several days might be ok
03:16.18 dan_falck ok. I will keep monitoring #brlcad
08:32.57 ``Erik *yawn*
19:02.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (mread.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): break out the common mread() function into its own file from pix-ipu and png-ipu, clean it up a little
19:03.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: add mread.c to pix-ipu and png-ipu targets. disable the hopeless canonserver product that is dependent on headers and libs that aren't evidently available (and the tool has minimal utility in either respect.
19:05.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonserver.c:
19:05.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: removed the canonserver target, the sources for this binary are dependent upon
19:05.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: headers and libraries that are not evidently available; similarly it hasn't been
19:05.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: compiled/distributed since at least the new build system has been in place.
19:06.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/.cvsignore: ignore the generated binaries
19:09.44 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: finally 'revive' the old canon directory back into enabled-by-default build status. should now build/install png-ipu, pix-ipu, ipustat, ipuscan.
19:11.30 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca)
19:12.11 IriX64 twigy you around?
19:12.18 IriX64 sorry twingy.
19:12.41 Twingy kinda busy
19:12.44 IriX64 I'm installing a freebsd brlcad.
19:13.14 IriX64 would like feedback.
19:13.46 IriX64 ill zip up the directory and send it to you.
19:13.58 Twingy please don't, I'm busy right now
19:14.08 Twingy and not in a good mood
19:14.09 IriX64 sorry to have troubled you.
19:14.14 Twingy try later this evening
19:14.19 IriX64 sure.
19:16.36 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
19:18.16 ``Erik o.O
19:18.30 IriX64 please i'm serious.
19:18.31 ``Erik why not just use the port?
19:18.42 IriX64 explain.
19:18.53 ``Erik cd /usr/ports/cad/brlcad && make install clean
19:19.09 ``Erik or pkgadd -r cad/brlcad
19:19.10 IriX64 thought i knew the ins and outs.
19:19.28 IriX64 i know my compiler not your configure or make.
19:19.53 IriX64 installed. no way to run it.
19:20.04 ``Erik it shoulda created an mged.sh in /usr/local/bin/
19:20.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: re-enabled png-ipu, pix-ipu, ipustat, ipuscan
19:20.18 ``Erik which sets some variables and runs /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged
19:20.32 ``Erik add /usr/local/brlcad/bin to your path and all the utils 'just work'
19:20.52 IriX64 who runs what here ill try to give you all a present.
19:21.23 ``Erik eh?
19:21.36 IriX64 I know twingy runs freebsd so i compiled for it.
19:22.36 ``Erik hm, twingy knows how to compile it himself... and he's a developer, not a user...
19:23.00 IriX64 you dont get it...i'm not running freebsd.
19:23.06 ``Erik if you're trying to add new functionality or fix bugs, put the source patch into the sourceforge shtuff...
19:23.34 IriX64 heh
19:23.37 ``Erik you're looking for someone to see if your cross compiler works?
19:23.42 IriX64 yes
19:23.56 ``Erik why don't you make a hello world and give it to me, then
19:24.09 IriX64 for what system?
19:24.29 ``Erik fbsd ia32... 5, 6, 7, whatever, I got 'em all
19:24.40 IriX64 standby
19:27.35 *** join/#brlcad alxarch (n=sonic@ipa188.16.tellas.gr)
19:29.33 IriX64 how do i get it to you its done.
19:29.58 IriX64 freebsd flavor i586 arch
19:30.34 ``Erik dcc works
19:31.05 IriX64 dcc send ``erik c:\cassandra\home\hello.exe
19:31.42 ``Erik try a slash infront of it...
19:31.54 IriX64 whup
19:33.28 IriX64 just a sec.
19:35.13 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca)
19:35.26 IriX64_ problem with my client stand by.
19:36.34 IriX64 well accept.
19:37.42 ``Erik <-- didn't get a request
19:38.01 ``Erik and I have auto-accept turned on
19:38.09 IriX64 from IriX64_
19:38.22 IriX64 requests been sent.
19:38.34 ``Erik hrmmmm
19:38.54 ``Erik I wonder if freenode is killing the request
19:39.16 IriX64 i know nothing about freenode sorry, how else can i get it to you?
19:39.20 ``Erik ok, are you a registered user?
19:39.31 IriX64 this nick yes the other no.
19:40.04 ``Erik ok, in order to send a dcc request, you have to be registered and identified... can you drop it on a web spot? or mail it?
19:40.23 IriX64 email address?
19:41.13 ``Erik erik@smluc.org works, I spoze
19:41.40 IriX64 im reggistered trying again.
19:42.00 ``Erik hrm, do you have a firewall or something?
19:42.12 IriX64 not that would stop a dcc send.
19:42.35 IriX64 client says awaiting reply so the request went out.
19:42.56 IriX64 going for a smoke ill mail it to you when i get back.
19:43.06 ``Erik yes, it would... dcc sends work by you sending me a message that includes your hostname and port and opens up that port... my client responds by connecting to that port
19:43.17 ``Erik so it's sorta backwards to what you'd think :)
19:47.24 IriX64 firewalls off lets try again.
19:47.53 IriX64 awaiting reply.
19:48.21 ``Erik CDCC Auto-geting file 676.hello.exe from [IriX64]
19:48.32 ``Erik oh well... mail will have to do
19:48.36 IriX64 sure.
19:51.50 IriX64 mail sent.
19:52.40 IriX64 back to this linux build.
19:53.17 ``Erik that is a windows PE binary
19:53.29 ``Erik erik@fenris /tmp$ file hello.exe
19:53.29 ``Erik hello.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable not relocatable
19:53.50 IriX64 does it run?
19:54.02 ``Erik no... it's not a bsd program... it's a windows program
19:54.37 IriX64 post the 2nd and 3rd bytews in the program ill compare them with mine.
19:54.43 IriX64 bytes
19:54.56 ``Erik erik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump hello.exe | head -n 1
19:54.56 ``Erik 0000000 5a4d 0090 0003 0000 0004 0000 ffff 0000
19:55.14 IriX64 crap
19:56.54 IriX64 mine 4d 90 00
19:57.23 IriX64 sorr 45 5a 90 00
19:57.44 IriX64 4d 5a 90 00
19:58.19 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
19:58.28 IriX64 what gives?
19:59.21 IriX64 what the fark is fenris?
19:59.23 ``Erik um, intel is little endian, so when I pasted 16b words, it flipped 'em...
19:59.28 ``Erik fenris is the name of one of my fbsd boxen
19:59.35 IriX64 ah
20:00.28 IriX64 well much thanks for the test, may i hang around a while, ill be quiet.
20:00.30 ``Erik erik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump -C hello.exe | head -n 1
20:00.30 ``Erik 00000000 4d 5a 90 00 03 00 00 00 04 00 00 00 ff ff 00 00 |MZ..............|
20:00.32 ``Erik better?
20:00.39 IriX64 yes
20:00.50 ``Erik erik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump -C /bin/ls | head -n 1
20:00.50 ``Erik 00000000 7f 45 4c 46 01 01 01 09 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.ELF............|
20:01.16 ``Erik now ya got a way to see if your cross-compiler is at least doing something other than local... :)
20:01.46 IriX64 yes much thanks.
20:02.06 IriX64 im not very good at this stuff.
20:09.21 IriX64 where did you get hexdump?
20:17.55 IriX64 build 20060702 compilation time 34 minutes 36 seconds ... sweet
20:19.59 IriX64 altho...whats the use of building them?
20:26.54 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:34.06 IriX64 lets return to the windows build :)
20:35.33 IriX64 havoc looks beautiful through the window :)
21:15.24 IriX64 how does *your multipane work, id like to compare notes.
21:16.22 IriX64 for the longest time i was coding blind, wouldnt build or run on my system.
21:16.53 IriX64 now she builds beautifully and runs even more beautifully.
21:18.32 IriX64 hahah rotated havoc to where i wanted her and then moved her back into center screen.
21:19.14 IriX64 what a beautiful picture.
21:22.38 brlcad hmm.. it's raining
21:27.33 IriX64 ``erik expect mail.
21:37.52 IriX64 you all are a quiet bunch, must be very busy.
21:48.36 brlcad always
21:53.07 IriX64 heh i tend to my work too.
21:54.04 IriX64 *nix high on windows rawks :)
21:55.19 IriX64 sigh..don't blame it on me i'm only 25 with 27 years experience ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060703

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060703

00:45.16 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca)
00:57.42 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:11.52 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
06:36.25 *** join/#brlcad cradek_ (n=chris@timeguy.com)
09:13.31 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
18:05.39 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4303376.sympatico.ca)
18:06.12 IriX64 twingy... freebsdcad... sending it to incoming now.
18:07.16 IriX64 have a linux build too, dunno what to do with that one :)
18:12.21 IriX64 anybody in the channel have use for a linux build of brlcad i586arch?
18:13.46 IriX64 smoke break.
18:24.08 ``Erik why would twingy want your build? and why would anyone want a linux build? they're available from sourceforge, and pretty much all of us happily compile things ourselves...
18:24.43 IriX64 did some work on it.
18:25.11 IriX64 you already have a freebsd build?
18:26.43 IriX64 chose freebsd cause its not mentioned at sourceforge.
18:27.14 brlcad it's one of the supported binary distributions
18:27.31 brlcad http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292
18:27.33 brlcad top of the list
18:27.42 IriX64 ill stop this ftp transfer then.
18:27.56 IriX64 or would you care to examine it.
18:28.11 IriX64 did some work on the geometry browser.
18:28.19 brlcad what sort of work?
18:28.30 brlcad it could use a lot of work :)
18:28.35 IriX64 cascading tree browser.
18:28.49 brlcad i know what it is, I wrote most of it
18:28.54 brlcad what did you do with it?
18:29.15 IriX64 double click and it displays to the graphics window.
18:29.29 IriX64 or clear and display and set color
18:29.49 brlcad again, you're telling me what it does.. I know what it does :)
18:29.59 brlcad what did YOU do with it, any code changes?
18:29.59 IriX64 prettied the window up a little.
18:30.10 IriX64 yes some
18:30.27 IriX64 but this upload is the binaries.
18:30.36 IriX64 ill send source if you like.
18:30.36 brlcad you should post up a source patch
18:30.51 IriX64 a diff?
18:31.12 brlcad yeah, a unified diff (diff -u), post it to http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804
18:32.54 IriX64 that site loads but doesn't display anything.
18:33.07 IriX64 whup sorry.
18:33.19 brlcad do you see the "Submit New" link?
18:33.30 brlcad http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
18:34.09 IriX64 yes
18:34.29 IriX64 says login and submit new.
18:34.37 IriX64 im not in cvs.
18:35.34 brlcad so login, and submit new :)
18:36.25 IriX64 how do i begin doen't i have to be accepted to be able to login?
18:37.19 IriX64 its the source of the SOURCEforge system i use :)
18:39.59 brlcad do you have a sourceforge account?
18:40.12 IriX64 no i don't.
18:40.13 brlcad if not, create one -- there's a link on the login link
18:40.19 brlcad it's quick
18:40.21 brlcad painless
18:40.41 IriX64 what does it do for me and how much does it cost?
18:41.30 ValarQ how is brlcads support for generating drawings?
18:42.13 IriX64 i dont have a postscript printer or a plotter so i cant comment, however the interface to generate same is beautiful.
18:43.16 IriX64 the rendering to the screen tho, most beautiful pictures of the gunship ive ever seen, actually only pictures of it ive ever seen.
18:43.30 ValarQ i have tried to generate postscript from some of the examples and it looks very good
18:43.52 ValarQ but i might want to add some measurements and other information
18:43.54 IriX64 maybe i should invest in such a printer.
18:44.02 ValarQ can that be done easily?
18:44.11 IriX64 should make it so the grid prints.
18:44.29 IriX64 can be actually.
18:45.27 brlcad IriX64: did you even look? it's free
18:45.51 brlcad it lets you submit patches.. if that's not enough in itself, I'm not sure what would convince you
18:46.12 IriX64 this is how id do it, your raytracing the drawing line by line anyway, simplay add a grid ala acad to the drawing and include an option to scan the grid or not so itll print on request
18:46.39 IriX64 ive never looked brlcad i thought it was a subscription service like some others.
18:47.42 IriX64 just have a switch for the grid like you do now.
18:47.57 IriX64 use the grid control panel to set hash marks.
18:48.36 brlcad ValarQ: there are various ways to save the wireframe, but the method used "in production" is the rtedge raytracer
18:48.38 IriX64 smoke break bbiab
18:49.41 brlcad rtedge doesn't have dimensioning support yet, but it does do nice hidden-line rendered drawings
18:49.55 ValarQ rtedge?
18:50.03 brlcad example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
18:50.25 ValarQ yeah, that looks great
18:50.39 ValarQ i'm missing dimenstions thought
18:51.47 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:53.12 ValarQ how do you make that hidden-line render?
18:53.22 brlcad run rtedge instead of rt
18:53.45 brlcad brlman rtedge (or just man rtedge if your MANPATH is set)
18:54.03 brlcad rtedge -F/dev/Xl -s1024 havoc.g havoc
18:54.26 brlcad inside mged, maybe something like: rtedge -F/dev/Xl -s800
18:56.01 PrezKennedy brlcad, im afraid to wear my glasses now... im afraid no one will recognize me
19:08.12 brlcad heh
19:14.58 IriX64 havoc.sh neat
19:17.31 IriX64 brlcad thats a lovely pix of havoc.
19:18.10 IriX64 i have one of her climbing and showing her belly sort of lower left to upper right.
19:20.31 ``Erik *yawn*
19:20.56 IriX64 use your raytrace script loader to see ill dcc it to you if you like
19:21.03 ``Erik freebsd users are mostly unlikely to bother with a binary on the sf page... we'd rather build from ports or do a pkg_add -r brlcad and get it from the freebsd buildfarm... :)
19:21.15 brlcad IriX64: i've yet to see you use dcc successfully ;)
19:21.28 ``Erik and havoc is an interesting 'coptor... the Mi28, which lost in a bid-war to the Ka50... both impressive machines :)
19:21.32 IriX64 sigh point taken. :)
19:21.52 IriX64 do u have a pix of the latter.?
19:22.00 ``Erik google or go to wikipedia
19:22.20 IriX64 should have thought of that doh.
19:22.26 ``Erik I think it's nickname is "black shark"?
19:22.41 IriX64 ill mail it to ``Erik :)
19:22.42 ``Erik its, even
19:23.15 ``Erik heh, the only email of mine you have is one that would bounce a large attachment :>
19:23.18 IriX64 ``Erik my system knows who she is now :)
19:23.46 IriX64 but no the script is very small load it in mgeds script loader.
19:24.08 IriX64 displays nicely.
19:24.33 ``Erik brlcad, why don't we have a simple aa box that just takes two opposing points?
19:26.39 IriX64 mail ``Erik.
19:27.38 ``Erik why? I don't want some script shit :/
19:27.53 ``Erik <-- busy trying to implement metaballs
19:28.11 IriX64 its such hot shit toilet paper burns when it touches it. :)
19:28.20 IriX64 smoke time bbiab.
19:31.48 ``Erik mebbe I'll implement a two point aa box first, heh
19:41.37 brlcad ``Erik: if you need a ground plane, that'd be a halfspace prim
19:42.13 brlcad there is a make_bb cmd to make a simple bounding box arb on objects
19:42.51 brlcad use that and move the top face underneath and you'll have a perfectly sized base box
20:28.18 ``Erik hm, I was doing reflective/refrative stuff, so the goal was "near-infinite"
20:28.37 ``Erik big honkin' hollow sphere with something to cut through it woulda probably been best...
20:43.42 Twingy hum
20:50.40 ``Erik bastage
20:54.07 SWPadnos sumnum fargin' bastage?
21:56.43 ``Erik mmm quesadillas
22:14.37 IriX64 man.... ive gotta abort, i cant take it anymore.
22:16.11 IriX64 chow
22:22.21 Twingy that's what his mom said just before birth
22:27.39 ``Erik awesome
22:45.12 Twingy hah, grills gone wild
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060704

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060704

00:39.02 ``Erik folk implosion rocks
00:44.05 Twingy damn portupgrade is taking forever
00:44.50 Twingy 2.9 rather
02:13.15 ``Erik shoulda used -PP :D
02:13.58 Twingy indeed
02:14.09 Twingy I'm too used to being on fast machines
02:14.22 Twingy maybe this 2.2ghz athlon 64 coming in the mail will solve that
02:15.00 Twingy the sad thing is I don't think fbsd stocks 2.9 yet
02:15.05 Twingy I think they are still on 2.8
02:15.14 Twingy so I will likely have to install by hand
02:16.23 Twingy I wonder how hard it would be to get the fbsd admins to create a cam folder in ports
02:20.32 Twingy the athlon 64 3500+ should be roughly 2.2x faster than this sempron 2200+
02:22.27 ``Erik creating a cam folder is trivial... convincing them that there needs to be one would be more or less impossible, "it should go in ports/cad/" will probably be the response
02:25.15 Twingy I need to get a 20 or 23" display for home
15:42.55 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:52.26 brlcad don't we all
15:57.05 dan_falck yep
16:09.58 Twingy dan, I'm back on track again
16:10.20 Twingy my e-machine was not delivering the proper signal to my cnc, moving this machine to the garage and ordered a new machine to replace this one
16:10.33 Twingy once I upgrade to gtk2.9 I can resume development
16:20.38 dan_falck cool
16:22.01 dan_falck are you using EMC to run the machine?
16:27.36 ``Erik what's 2.9 give you over 2.8.20 ?
16:29.04 ``Erik (and 2.10 is out, which is the 'stable' continuation of 2.9)
16:41.11 *** join/#brlcad CIA-9 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
17:13.52 Twingy 2.9 has spin widgets in tree view
17:14.06 Twingy which I need for my polyline primitive
17:43.13 ``Erik ah, coo'
17:58.19 Twingy T-40 minutes to launch
17:58.53 Twingy channel 51
18:06.59 ``Erik :o thanks for the heads up
18:08.02 ``Erik 30:00
18:09.03 Twingy plus 9 min hold
18:18.35 brlcad given how much he just LOVES crowds.. I doubt it :)
18:19.18 ``Erik yeah, but he could watch it out his condo window
18:20.49 ``Erik wtf..
18:20.57 ``Erik I was able to privmsg? freenode must be broken, heh
18:22.04 brlcad nah, I disabled it
18:22.23 brlcad individuals can disable it with nickserv, just defaults to off
18:23.04 ``Erik ahhh, okie
18:23.30 ``Erik I lost my password, so I asked them to delete the account (as that's the standard passwd recovery), but they never did it :/
18:24.57 brlcad actually, freenode has an account "expiration" policy
18:25.03 brlcad they'll reset the password for you
18:26.54 brlcad susan would probably do it quick enough (hedgemage)
18:27.15 ``Erik huh, the dude I talked to (months ago) said he had to delete, and said he'd do it immediately :/
18:27.30 ``Erik no such nick o.O
18:28.02 brlcad sleeping
18:28.24 ``Erik O.O people sign off when they sleep? *boggle*
18:28.34 brlcad i know, crazy talk
18:29.45 brlcad there's plenty that might: /who freenode/staff/*
18:31.32 brlcad course I know many of them so it might just be familiarity affecting their willingness
18:33.03 brlcad woot, five minutes
18:48.40 brlcad beautiful
18:49.25 ``Erik they haven't stated the expected docking time...
18:55.04 ``Erik ah, excellent, thunder, lightening and rain
18:55.28 ``Erik so much for bbq
18:57.57 Twingy everytime I build something I get spammed with pkg_delete: package apsfilter-7.2.6 has no origin recorded
18:59.01 ``Erik um, that means it was aborted during the 'register' phase
18:59.37 ``Erik cd path/to/apsfilter && make build deinstall reinstall clean
19:01.46 Twingy thx
19:02.17 Twingy this upgrade process is taking longer than anticipated
19:02.25 Twingy so many errors and breakage
19:03.08 Twingy btw
19:03.15 Twingy still gives me the pkg_delete: package apsfilter-7.2.6 has no origin recorded
19:03.56 ``Erik o.O um, is /var/db/pkg/apsfilter-7.2.6/+CONTENTS damaged ?
19:04.20 Twingy 0 lines
19:04.23 Twingy blow it away?
19:04.50 Twingy that fixed things
19:05.23 ``Erik did you do the reinstall thing on it?
19:05.28 Twingy yes
19:05.34 ``Erik and still 0 lines? odd
19:05.42 Twingy libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libglib-2.0.so.600" not found, required by "orbit-idl-2"
19:05.51 Twingy that's Orbit2 right?
19:06.04 ``Erik I think
19:06.30 ``Erik neither of my home boxes have apsfilter installed...
19:06.58 Twingy it's for interfacing my laser printer
19:07.28 ``Erik ah, if I had it, I'd give you my manifest files... but I don't, so *shrug*
19:07.34 ``Erik no files in there should be zero length
19:08.23 ``Erik when you make install, it uses the data from pkg-plist to generate the +CONTENTS file, so it can do a pkg_delete
19:09.18 Twingy that snickers commercial cracks me up
19:09.52 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
19:09.52 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
19:12.52 brlcad damn, the dad on american chopper just easily benchpressed 405 lbs
19:13.14 Twingy he lifts all day long
19:14.12 brlcad pretty impresseive especially for his age..
19:15.11 brlcad says he tries to work out about three times a week
19:16.13 Twingy maybe he's on roids
19:16.18 Twingy he always has a bad temper
19:29.29 Twingy install: /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: Too many levels of symbolic links
19:30.11 ``Erik erm, you're not trying to install your hand-built 2.9 into the place where 2.8 goes, are you?
19:30.25 Twingy no
19:30.39 ``Erik oh, ok.. weird, what'd you do to that poor machine? :)
19:30.48 Twingy I used ports *shrug*
19:31.15 Twingy I guess 2.8.20 wasn't tested much
19:31.20 ``Erik <-- has never heard of anyone having so many issues o.O :)
19:31.31 Twingy most people don't install as much stuff as me either
19:31.33 ``Erik my 2.8.20 install seems to be working fine
19:31.38 Twingy I've got some 200-300 packages installed
19:31.50 Twingy most people install like 40-50 packages
19:32.34 Twingy like I said *most*
19:32.51 ``Erik I think most people who use fbsd as a desktop are in around 300...
19:33.02 ``Erik gnome and kde both glob loads of crap on
19:33.23 Twingy most people don't use fbsd as a desktop env afaik
19:33.28 ``Erik now I only have like 50 leaf packages...
19:34.01 ``Erik 'pointyhat' installs all of everything at some point of it's run...
19:34.37 ``Erik now a lot of ports don't clean up after themselves nicely... so once in a rare while, I do a pkg_delete -a and start installing stuff fresh...
19:34.42 Twingy if this bombs I think I'll just hold out and install 6.1 on the new box
19:35.05 ``Erik which is as much to get rid of pkgs I don't use anymore as to clean cruft...
19:35.07 Twingy was hoping to get some development time in today
19:35.34 Twingy spent 5 hours last night and 4 hours today trying to get gtk upgraded
19:35.55 ``Erik damn...
19:36.48 ``Erik on which fbsd?
19:36.51 Twingy 6.0
19:36.53 ``Erik I can make package you a 7.0
19:37.00 ``Erik oh, I only have 6.1 and 7.0
19:37.22 Twingy I installed 6.0 on a handful of machines when I moved into the house in nov '05
19:37.33 Twingy I had to do a -Rauskf
19:38.39 ``Erik uhhhhh, -f is, uh, bad mojo
19:38.48 ``Erik -k, too
19:38.58 Twingy yep
19:39.09 Twingy hence this taking so long
19:39.21 Twingy some combination of the ports I am using is causing bad mojo
19:39.42 ``Erik do you have pkg_cutleaves installed?
19:39.49 Twingy no
19:40.14 ``Erik oh, if you did, you could give me the pkg_cutleaves -l output and I could try to emulate it on shiva or nifleim tomorrow
19:40.43 ``Erik it could just be that something oopsed at some point and chucnks of your system have been broken-ish *shrug*
19:40.43 Twingy not worth your time
19:40.52 Twingy I'm sure you have more important things to accomplish at work
19:41.33 ``Erik hah
19:41.38 ``Erik I'm mandated otherwise.
19:41.52 ``Erik actually, I got that metaballs thing I could do
19:43.18 Twingy ok, here goes another install
19:43.30 ``Erik heh, concerning your, um, new office? :)
19:43.42 Twingy show and tell
19:43.48 Twingy same problem
19:44.05 Twingy /usr/bin/install -c -o root -g wheel .libs/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0T /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0
19:44.06 Twingy install: /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: Too many levels of symbolic links
19:44.06 Twingy *** Error code 71
19:44.20 ``Erik is it like a symlink to itself?
19:45.39 Twingy hrm
19:45.40 Twingy ok
19:45.42 Twingy plan B
19:45.47 Twingy deinstall everything
19:45.49 Twingy in ports
19:45.51 Twingy and start over
19:46.02 Twingy make deinstall in /usr/ports ?
19:48.28 ``Erik pkg_delete -a
19:48.38 Twingy too late :)
19:48.48 ``Erik then look through /usr/local and /usr/X11R6 for things that can be deleted safel
19:48.49 ``Erik y
19:48.57 ``Erik make deinstall in /usr/ports will take a long long long time
19:49.02 Twingy yep
19:49.04 ``Erik if you REALLY wanted to be fast
19:49.06 Twingy specially over nfs
19:49.12 ``Erik rm -rf /usr/local /usr/X11R6 /var/db/pkg/*
19:49.13 Twingy wireless nfs
19:49.21 Twingy nah
19:49.34 Twingy if I'm not up and running in the next 2 hours I will hold off until I get my new computer tomorrow
19:49.40 Twingy install 6.1 on both compys
19:49.43 Twingy and go from there
19:49.51 Twingy the file server is running 6.0 nice and happily
19:50.37 ``Erik but I'm a bit more apt to hack on kernel and userland system
19:52.43 ``Erik I'm thinkin' ruby is right for this problem... I've been flopping on language for months, heh
19:53.04 Twingy spoken like a true computer scientist
20:23.39 Twingy I plugged in my external usb 2.0 plextor CDRW
20:23.46 Twingy and /dev/cd0 .. /dev/cd7 popped up
20:24.02 Twingy burncd works with none of them
20:24.24 Twingy and Mac OSX requires special software to burn on non-apple cdrw's
20:24.34 Twingy far from a turn-key solution
20:26.03 brlcad "non-apple cdrw"? apple doesn't sell cdrw's
20:26.13 Twingy internal ones rather
20:26.22 Twingy i.e I plug this cdrom drive in
20:26.26 brlcad the older macs don't handle cdr+ discs
20:26.28 Twingy and I don't get a fancy burn icon
20:26.37 brlcad (like the Ti books)
20:26.41 brlcad newer ones do though
20:26.49 Twingy these are cdr- I believe
20:27.05 Twingy I know I can burn them when the cdrw internal drive worked on the ti-books
20:27.05 brlcad same for cd+rw vs cd-rw
20:27.19 Twingy these are the same cd's I used to burn internally with the ti-book
20:27.41 Twingy it's just very selective about what drives it provides for burning capabilities
20:28.12 Twingy I've also never gotten burncd to work in fbsd before
20:30.06 Twingy it'll write about 1.3MB then spit out input/output error
20:30.15 Twingy at speed 1
20:30.19 Twingy 1x recording
20:30.38 Twingy but it'll fixate it just fine for 2 minutes
20:32.20 brlcad weird
20:32.33 brlcad some buffer getting underrun/stalled for some reason perhaps
20:35.29 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303376.sympatico.ca)
20:35.48 Twingy xcdroast doesn't seem to play nicely with it either
20:37.46 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
20:37.55 ``Erik nothing out of dmesg?
20:38.28 Twingy acd0: DVDR <ATAPI DVD RW 8XMax/160D> at ata0-slave UDMA33
20:38.34 Twingy cd0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
20:38.34 Twingy cd0: <PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A 1.01> Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device
20:38.34 Twingy cd0: 40.000MB/s transfers
20:38.34 Twingy cd0: cd present [1 x 2048 byte records]
20:38.40 Twingy for both cdrw's
20:39.29 ``Erik and youre line is something like "burncd -f /dev/acd0 data mydisk.iso fixate" ?
20:39.34 ``Erik s/e//
20:39.41 Twingy jup
20:39.48 Twingy I through in a -s1 for good measure
20:39.51 Twingy *threw
20:40.00 Twingy write 1312kB
20:40.04 Twingy then input/output error
20:40.13 Twingy then red blinky light
20:40.15 Twingy fixating
20:40.19 ``Erik tried -d ?
20:40.33 Twingy trying xcdroast now
20:40.39 ``Erik the machine is more or less unloaded when you do this, right?
20:40.51 Twingy seems to see the plextor
20:40.54 ``Erik I think
20:40.56 Twingy but not other drive
20:41.04 Twingy yes
20:41.49 ``Erik done a send-pr of the problem?
20:42.41 Twingy no
20:43.39 ``Erik odd... I haven't burnt a cd in bsd in quite a while, so mebbe they broke it since my last successful use... but someone else woulda noticed for sure if it was really broken...
20:45.28 Twingy heh
20:45.37 Twingy I haven't used xcdroast since 1996 when I burned like 50 cd's
20:45.43 ``Erik are you doing some kinda tweak or tune to your machines? or are they 'out of the box'?
20:45.52 Twingy out of the box
20:46.09 ``Erik :/
20:58.47 IriX64 xcdroast -e for examine work?
20:59.44 IriX64 i'll shutup. :)
21:01.33 IriX64 no freaking clue what libc_iname is sposed to be or where it goes... sigh.
21:02.37 IriX64 ill just void libc_iname(void){} and at least itll link. sigh.
21:03.29 Twingy north korea just fired 3 missiles
21:03.48 IriX64 you better be joking.
21:03.54 Twingy negative
21:04.00 IriX64 at who?
21:04.03 IriX64 s k
21:04.09 Twingy testing, check cnn.com
21:04.22 IriX64 scared the pants off me thanks.
21:05.26 IriX64 hate ppl trying to see how big a bang they can make.
21:05.47 IriX64 that did it it links now.
21:06.16 IriX64 btw am i welcome here im trying to build a brlcad.
21:06.34 Twingy hm?
21:06.44 IriX64 mh?
21:06.58 Twingy were you askinga question or making a statement?
21:07.06 IriX64 question.
21:07.16 IriX64 forgot the ?
21:07.20 IriX64 mark
21:07.32 brlcad is there a reason for you to not be welcome?
21:07.37 IriX64 im not quite sure what this channel is for.
21:07.49 brlcad said it yesterday
21:08.02 IriX64 well no but some channels are picky.
21:08.09 IriX64 developers and help?
21:08.27 IriX64 i have a damaged memory.
21:08.33 brlcad if there was a brl-cad in-depth talk going on, it would take precedence over off-topic chit chat, but there's not right now so whatever
21:08.44 brlcad otherwise, anything related to brl-cad
21:08.48 IriX64 thankyou.
21:08.58 Twingy thank you is two words :)
21:09.04 IriX64 so what the fark is libc_iname.
21:09.09 IriX64 hah so it is.
21:09.26 IriX64 in vdeck.exe for example
21:10.23 brlcad libc is the standard c library, that could be a lot of things
21:10.40 IriX64 Sc.c line 139 and othewrs assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast.
21:11.16 brlcad tis a warning, and yes there are a lot of those
21:11.20 IriX64 but its an undefined reference to a function....ah wait i see.. thanks.
21:11.27 IriX64 libc i mean.
21:15.45 Twingy sweet
21:15.55 Twingy got my external usb2.0 plextor working with xcdroast
21:16.06 Twingy writing at 25x no less
21:16.16 Twingy make that 28x
21:17.03 Twingy sustaining at 40x
21:17.47 Twingy avg speed was 30x, hrm good deal
21:18.47 Twingy first cd I ever burned in fbsd, heh
21:19.35 Twingy amd64 done, time for i386
21:25.14 Twingy 1024x768 requires too many virtual workspaces
21:28.35 Twingy 1680x1050 even
21:29.24 Twingy $500 less than apple
21:29.34 IriX64 20? shouldnt that be 21"
21:29.45 Twingy 20.1"
21:29.52 IriX64 :)
21:30.19 Twingy I used to have a pair of 1280x1024 lcd's
21:30.25 Twingy but they fizzled out
21:31.11 Twingy so I can easily adapt to 1680x1050
21:33.47 Twingy I should work on finishing the paint job in the garage :|
21:33.56 IriX64 1024x768 is my limit, my eyes wont take any finer.
21:34.17 Twingy sean and erik like higher the better
21:34.32 IriX64 must be young :/
21:34.45 ``Erik and I run dual 1920x1200 at work
21:34.54 ``Erik 1600x1200 on my 21" crt at home
21:35.07 Twingy I on the other hand am quite content with 1024x768 unless I'm doing development work, then I would like 3 or 4 1024x768 screens
21:35.19 brlcad er, i suppose "better than average" is more appropriate than perfect
21:35.34 IriX64 must be nice to be in hardware candy shop.
21:35.58 IriX64 i type with two figers thats why im slow.
21:36.21 ``Erik heh...
21:36.28 Twingy at higher resolutions I put too much stress on my eyes unless EVERYTHING is big font
21:36.50 Twingy but usually you come across apps that don't cater to high resolutions
21:36.56 Twingy and it causes my eyes to wig out
21:37.10 Twingy there's always those apps that only have 1 font size
21:37.35 ``Erik heh, dont' use 'em? :D nothing I use has that issue... :/
21:37.44 ``Erik afaik... other than games, which switch the resolution anyways
21:40.03 Twingy hrm
21:41.22 Twingy another 2GB for win2k for CCS compiler
21:43.15 IriX64 CCS?
21:43.28 IriX64 cross compiling system?
21:44.24 Twingy for programming PIC microchips
21:44.37 Twingy best compiler for them imho
21:44.44 Twingy worth booting into windows for
21:44.49 IriX64 ah
21:54.18 Twingy install time
22:54.46 IriX64 Roland the headless Thompson gunner ... thats music :)
22:59.25 IriX64 there we go job done 1280x1024 pixels in operation
22:59.44 IriX64 my eyes are *not this good :)
23:00.29 IriX64 on the fly programming hehehe.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060705

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060705

01:17.33 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
01:17.34 IriX64 blugh...disconnected.
01:17.57 IriX64 ill see you people tommorow.
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15:02.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/ (prior.psql prior.sh): scripts to collect data from gforge tasks
15:54.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/prior.psql: expanded select so that names of the developers are included with the tasks
17:14.45 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: gah, the horrirs. spell sentance correctlay
17:28.12 ``Erik "special" :)
17:36.54 ValarQ ?
17:40.18 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
17:41.28 IriX64 was trying to ftp send to ftp.brlcad.org got only 12kbps and it aborted anyway, go figure.
17:46.36 IriX64 whoever put that geometry browser in mged knew what they were doing :)
17:49.11 IriX64 the enterprise and shuttlecraft are beautiful.
17:55.52 ValarQ how usable is 'sketch'?
18:16.22 ValarQ and how stable is brlcad considered to be on amd64?
18:19.10 IriX64 on my amd64 it is very stable.
18:19.21 IriX64 what os?
18:19.31 SWPadnos lee-nucks :)
18:19.42 IriX64 nyuk :)
18:19.43 SWPadnos how about SMP?
18:19.54 ValarQ gentoo GNU/Linux
18:19.59 IriX64 symetrical multiprocessing? ;)
18:20.05 SWPadnos oh, thanks ;)
18:20.07 ValarQ yes
18:20.15 ValarQ i got 2cpus
18:20.22 SWPadnos btw - do you actually have an Irix system?
18:20.33 IriX64 my secret :)
18:20.38 SWPadnos heh
18:20.41 IriX64 linux64?
18:20.49 SWPadnos I have an Indigo2 / R10k
18:21.06 IriX64 i have the enterprise system :)
18:21.15 SWPadnos lucky you
18:21.28 IriX64 now if it would only fly :)
18:21.32 ValarQ IriX64: yeah, my entire system is 64bit
18:21.36 SWPadnos and transport :)
18:21.41 IriX64 heh
18:21.50 IriX64 is linux64 stable?
18:21.54 SWPadnos very
18:21.58 IriX64 for you?
18:22.03 SWPadnos more stable than any other common 64-bit OS :)
18:22.05 SWPadnos yes
18:22.18 SWPadnos not on my Indigo, on my dual opteron
18:22.25 IriX64 brlcad64 coming up ;)
18:22.42 SWPadnos I wonder how long it would take to compile on my Opteron rig
18:23.07 IriX64 on my system it take 45 minutes with another ten for make install.
18:23.49 SWPadnos ok - is that the giant server with 32 R14k CPUs, or something that mere mortals might have?
18:24.54 IriX64 i *am a mere mortal.
18:24.59 SWPadnos oh ;)
18:25.06 IriX64 ;)
18:28.17 ValarQ is it possible and if so how do i make an extrude on an NMG shape or sketch?
18:31.12 IriX64 im not a sophisticated use yet :)
18:31.17 IriX64 user too
18:31.52 ValarQ ok :(
18:32.13 IriX64 these others tho get with it :)
19:18.41 brlcad ValarQ: yes to the 64bit question and SMP support, it's a fundamental on the geometry library
19:20.09 brlcad ValarQ: compile should take "less than an hour" depending on which Opteron -- my guess would be about 10-15 minutes for most chips
19:20.49 brlcad quickest way to make a sketch is the type "make sketch" in the command window, it will create an empty sketch (which is of course useless) ;)
19:21.36 brlcad more practical is to then open that sketch in the sketch editor which is accessed either via the misc menu iirc or on the Edit menu
19:22.10 brlcad if you already have a sketch, it's trivial to extrude .. "make extrude" will get you started
19:24.05 ValarQ ok
19:26.17 IriX64 multiple definition of ___do_sjlj_init ? *WHY?
19:27.00 IriX64 libz.so crtstuff.c no such fiole what gives?
19:27.16 IriX64 file too.
19:27.24 ValarQ brlcad: 'make foo.s extrude' just kills mged
19:27.45 ValarQ brlcad: then when i fire up mged again 'e foo.s' almost kills my machine
19:30.35 ValarQ and 'gdb mged core' doesn't give me much ("Cannot access memory at address 0x2b5f32dbd988")
19:43.49 brlcad hmmm
19:44.50 ValarQ exactly what i was saying
19:45.28 ``Erik and the bt?
19:46.14 ValarQ bt?
19:46.26 brlcad ahh, so it does crash.. *ahem*
19:46.35 ``Erik backtrace
19:46.41 brlcad that's not the right syntax for what it's worth
19:46.58 ``Erik eh?
19:47.11 brlcad infinite loops until the stack is blown
19:47.29 ValarQ ``Erik: i get no backtrace
19:47.45 ``Erik "no backtrace" as in lots of question marks, or?
19:48.22 brlcad i have a backtrace, looking at it
19:48.33 ``Erik aight *shrug*
19:49.57 ValarQ (gdb) bt
19:49.57 ValarQ #0 0x00002b7350302843 in ?? ()
19:50.09 ValarQ thats all
19:50.32 brlcad ValarQ: the make command was the wrong command to tell you, use the "in" command
19:51.02 brlcad make creates a "prototypical"/example extrusion object (and clearly has some bug), that wouldn't have been extremely useful anyways
19:52.23 ValarQ ok
19:52.35 ValarQ what is H, A and B?
19:52.43 ValarQ (and K for that matter)
19:52.48 brlcad the crash has to do with it creating an empty sketch.. tries drawing a wireframe of that
19:53.07 ValarQ ok, i can see how it fails to do that :)
19:53.11 brlcad height vector and uniform A/B cross vectors
19:53.28 brlcad K is the step size
19:53.51 brlcad that is, it lets you do more than simple extrusions, you can extrude in different scaling directions
19:54.08 brlcad simplest is to use 0 0 1 for H, and 1 0 0 and 0 1 0 for A and B
19:54.16 brlcad play with different K values
19:54.32 brlcad K is basically how much to extrude
19:55.07 ValarQ ok, thanks for the help
20:17.26 IriX64 Elapsed compilation time: 42 minutes, 32 seconds on an amd64 2.4ghz system ValarQ.
20:21.04 brlcad that's a little slow..
20:21.12 brlcad for that system
20:21.27 IriX64 --enable-everything.
20:21.32 brlcad optimized?
20:21.36 IriX64 yes
20:21.51 brlcad ah, optimized will slow it down a variable amount
20:22.00 IriX64 summat. :)
20:22.01 brlcad gcc's not the hottest on amd64
20:22.16 brlcad (at least not yet)
20:22.22 IriX64 not many are ;)
20:23.39 IriX64 am i breaking any law trying to upload binaries to ftp.brlcad.org? orrules or anything?
20:25.16 IriX64 ~400 meg file and i was only getting 12k/s and it aborted anyway.
20:30.38 brlcad that's insanely oversized
20:31.01 brlcad sounds like fully-static binaries or something
20:32.28 brlcad no, you're not breaking the law, it's our server -- if you were providing them on a website or something similar, you'd technically be obligated to provide source as well perhaps
20:34.27 ``Erik *yawn*
20:34.40 IriX64 thankyou
20:34.48 ``Erik pr for fbsd ports is submitted and binary packages uploaded to sf... booyeah
20:34.52 brlcad the 12k/s sounds like a problem on your end
20:35.05 IriX64 yah prolly.
20:36.09 IriX64 ``Erik how long usually to posting for public?
20:36.10 ``Erik you got anonftp upload on a machine with that tiny of a disk, dude?
20:36.22 ``Erik irix64: what do you mean? the binaries on sf? or the pr for ports?
20:36.39 IriX64 binaries.
20:36.45 ``Erik they're already available
20:36.53 IriX64 ty
20:37.08 brlcad ``Erik: surprisingly anon isn't used much at all
20:37.08 ``Erik http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113558
20:37.23 brlcad interesting to see some of the junk that gets uploaded
20:37.30 ``Erik erm... I hope you don't permitted real accounts to ftp plain...
20:37.37 ``Erik s/ed//
20:37.41 IriX64 do you know what i tried to upload?
20:37.45 brlcad uhm
20:37.49 brlcad of course not
20:38.06 IriX64 used my name in the email address password.
20:38.08 brlcad if you try, it gives you the boot
20:38.17 ``Erik before password?
20:38.28 brlcad ooh, IriX64 ...
20:38.36 brlcad heh, i might have firewalled you
20:39.12 IriX64 what can i do sympatico insists on using your name in e-mail address well they used to anyway and im a long time member.
20:39.40 IriX64 shouldnt that be stonewalled? :)
20:40.40 IriX64 beautifull tank car from geometric solutions, someday i hope to be able to draw this well :)
20:40.54 brlcad ahh, yes.. it was you
20:40.56 brlcad connection from toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca (69.159.35.87)
20:41.03 IriX64 thats me.
20:41.21 brlcad there were a ton of failed ftp timeout attempts coming from there
20:41.37 brlcad looked like it was stuck in some app loop, so I killed it
20:42.00 IriX64 last night i tried to leave it transferring and i got disconnected and my client keeps trying. shouldnt have trusted it and gone to bed.
20:42.25 IriX64 ill be carefull now.
20:42.37 brlcad yeah, it tried a couple hundred connections
20:42.43 brlcad you're unblocked
20:43.11 IriX64 and thanks.
20:43.43 brlcad meh
20:43.49 brlcad news does
20:44.15 brlcad changelog is for devs, they can figure it out
20:44.56 ``Erik and the changelog overflows 80 and has LOTS of unnecessary newlines o.O
20:50.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: fold the Changelog to column 80 as part of the release steps to make Sourceforge display less evil
20:52.11 IriX64 rendering to the tube how slick, you guys really got it right.
20:52.51 brlcad "to the tube"?
20:52.59 IriX64 screen.
20:53.05 brlcad ah
20:53.24 IriX64 old school :)
20:56.34 IriX64 i better not turn it upside down, it'll drain all over my desk. :)
20:56.59 IriX64 ah no it wont the hatch is closed.
20:57.51 IriX64 raytrace complete lets get back to coding, see you people later.
21:00.41 brlcad sometimes best to just not ask
21:12.21 ValarQ oh, ok then
21:16.47 brlcad ValarQ: that wasn't meant for you :)
21:17.22 ValarQ yay :)
21:18.44 ValarQ not that i have anything to ask, i still working to get comfortable with mged
21:25.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: (log message trimmed)
21:25.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: prevent crashing when trying to draw extrude primitives that use empty sketch
21:25.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: primitives. simple statements like 'make x extrude' could cause this as well as
21:25.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: using any (default) empty sketch. the wireframe drawing routing was getting
21:25.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: stuck in an infinite loop allocating memory adding empty vlist items to the mged
21:25.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: display list due to the comparison against a negative decrementing index. the
21:25.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: code now checks for the empty sketch condition and informs the user. clean up
21:25.44 brlcad message slightly trimmed. "clean up the code a bit in the process, e.g. do something about a couple always-true if statements.. thanks ValarQ for finding this bug."
21:30.48 ValarQ is it posible to select primitives from the mged shell?
21:31.12 brlcad yes, sed primitivename
21:31.28 brlcad anything you do in the gui can be done on the command line
21:32.04 brlcad ValarQ: have you seen the MGED Quick Reference sheet? that might help learn some of the commands
21:33.13 ValarQ yes, didn't found sed thought, maybe i missed it
21:35.09 brlcad under the Editing Geometry sectino
21:35.44 ValarQ yep, only me not reading my documentation like i should
21:35.47 brlcad understandable, as mged's concept of selecting an object implies entering an edit mode
21:36.13 ValarQ like vi, i'll feel right at home :)
21:37.53 brlcad heh
21:38.37 brlcad if you like vi, mged has a vi-mode command line edit style (akin to bash's vi mode and other shells)
21:43.21 ValarQ it's not that critical, i actually use a quite unholy combination of editors
21:45.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
21:45.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: prevent crashing mged when trying to draw extrude primitives that use empty sketch primitives.
21:45.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: simple statements like 'make x extrude' could cause this as well as using any (default) empty sketch.
21:45.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the wireframe drawing routing was getting stuck in an infinite loop allocating memory adding empty vlist items to the mged display list due to the comparison against a negative decrementing index.
21:45.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the code now checks for the empty sketch condition and informs the user. thanks to ValarQ for finding this bug.
22:01.34 ValarQ ops, "ERROR: NULL struct resource pointer, file db5_comb.c, line 510"
22:01.52 brlcad yeesh
22:02.26 brlcad how'd you get there?
22:02.43 ValarQ i tried to clone an object
22:02.46 brlcad ahhhh
22:03.01 ValarQ maybe i didn't specify the name correctly
22:03.06 brlcad the clone command does not currently work on v5 geometry databases, that's a new command
22:03.12 ValarQ ok
22:03.13 brlcad it only works on v4 ones at the moment
22:03.21 brlcad unfortunately
22:03.24 brlcad it's a great command
22:03.30 ValarQ maybe you understand my amd64 question now :)
22:03.56 brlcad not sure, that problem isn't amd64-specific..
22:04.04 brlcad neither was the other :)
22:04.24 ValarQ no, i just started to suspect something like that
22:04.53 brlcad brl-cad is pretty pervasively multiplatform.. if something isn't working right it almost guaranteed to be a bonefide cross-platform logic bug of some sort
22:05.31 ValarQ what languages is it written in? only C and tcl?
22:06.14 brlcad at the moment, primarily C
22:06.33 brlcad the mged and archer modelers are written in tcl/tk and itcl/itk
22:06.59 brlcad there are several C++ projects under way as well, but not in the core atm
22:07.39 brlcad there's actually a couple resources, such as the benchmark suite, that are written in posix bourne shell
22:07.42 ValarQ ok, there isn't many C++ source files in the cvs head
22:08.08 brlcad as well as a simple geometry database server written in php for web apps, and a java JNI interface for interacting with the raytrace library
22:08.38 brlcad yeah, most of the c++ work is in other modules and a couple not in CVS yet
22:09.10 brlcad the next generation solid modeler interface will be written primarily in C++
22:09.39 ValarQ but the core will remain C?
22:10.29 brlcad that's the current plan
22:11.08 brlcad the long long term plan is to have a C++ library layer that will eventually subsume the C core where it makes sense
22:11.37 ValarQ ok, big move to C++ then
22:11.58 brlcad "eventually", that's very long term
22:12.00 ValarQ no plans to use any higher level languages then?
22:12.39 brlcad there are, that same core written in C++ is extensively plugin-based with support for multiple higher level execution cores
22:13.16 ValarQ sounds good
22:13.17 brlcad currently planning on python, tcl, and shell, possibly considering lisp and perl down the road
22:13.28 brlcad (from the onset)
22:13.51 ValarQ scheme would be nice :)
22:14.08 brlcad heh, everyone has a favorite :)
22:14.20 brlcad that'll be hugely driven by developer interest
22:14.47 brlcad if someone wants to pick up ML or Smalltalk and they're involved enough, I certainly wouldn't object ;)
22:15.26 brlcad I'm just not going to think about them much without getting the higher-impact ones done first
22:15.56 brlcad lisp/scheme would both be good since it could capture some of the autocad background
22:17.17 ValarQ i'm a bit concerned...
22:17.31 brlcad not looking to create an academic project for the sake of language coolness, the user community is coming in with specific experience that we'd like to leverage of course where possible
22:17.38 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
22:17.44 Lapo Hi all :-D
22:17.46 brlcad concerned with?
22:17.47 ValarQ i know many of those languages has good C bindings but poor bindings for OOP languages like C++
22:18.22 ValarQ but that might be an effect of using C++ OOP-tools in the API
22:18.40 brlcad ValarQ: from a plugin-system perspective, all the higher level languages can be treated as scoped/classed/namespaced command sets
22:18.57 brlcad howdy Lapo
22:19.06 ValarQ i know for example that it's extremely easy to write Haskell wrappers for C libraries but not so easy for C++
22:19.20 Lapo hey op ;-)
22:19.49 brlcad ValarQ: true, though that is really mitigated by the architecture in other ways
22:20.00 Lapo this is a very "intelectual" conversation :-D
22:20.20 ValarQ well, i can start worrying about it when i start coding it :)
22:20.34 brlcad plain C wrappers would work just fine too as most all of the commands are striving to be transaction-based and mostly stateless
22:20.41 ValarQ Lapo: nah, not "very" :)
22:21.01 Lapo yes , to me... ;-)
22:21.39 Lapo Guys I have a little problem about brlcad
22:21.48 Lapo maybe you can help me...
22:21.55 Lapo I'm a big nood -.-
22:22.14 brlcad some services such as geometry services will be client/server based so the higher-level commands won't really need to worry about C++ per-se for a large portion of operations
22:23.45 ValarQ using the old trusted unixmethod called pipes then :)
22:24.03 brlcad for a lot of functionality yes ;)
22:24.34 brlcad brl-cad already has over 400 commands that do a huge variety of functionality (that is not exposed by mged even now)
22:24.56 Lapo ehm...
22:24.59 brlcad those become plugins in the new system almost unmodified so they can be leveraged without rewriting a million lines of code
22:25.12 brlcad Lapo: best to just ask your question instead of asking if you can ask..
22:25.12 ValarQ Lapo: just throw the question at brlcad
22:25.21 Lapo ok
22:25.23 brlcad ~ask
22:25.24 ibot Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a quesiton first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
22:25.41 Lapo ouch sorry guys
22:25.46 brlcad no problem ;)
22:25.58 brlcad everyone's allowed a freebie or two
22:26.16 Lapo this is my problem when I start mged:
22:26.47 Lapo Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mg
22:27.01 Lapo ed: undefined symbol: Tk_CreateCanvasBezierType
22:27.08 ValarQ better get some sleep, it's getting rather late over here...
22:27.10 brlcad ah
22:27.14 Lapo (please don't kill me)
22:27.16 ValarQ bye folks
22:27.21 brlcad ValarQ: nice chatting with you
22:27.22 brlcad cheers
22:27.27 Lapo bye ValarQ
22:27.56 brlcad Lapo: you're linking against a system Tk (or at least lacking libtclcad)
22:28.12 brlcad you compiled brl-cad yourself?
22:28.42 Lapo no
22:28.56 brlcad odd, where'd you get the binary from?
22:29.39 Lapo I got the tar.gz from the web site , then unpacked it
22:30.05 Lapo then compiled , and then I've copied in /usr/brlcad
22:30.42 Lapo probably this is not the right way X-)
22:30.44 brlcad which tar.gz
22:31.03 brlcad so you did compile brl-cad yourself..
22:31.42 Lapo brlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2
22:32.42 brlcad okay, so you didn't compile, you unpacked.. installed to /usr/brlcad
22:32.48 brlcad do you have a LD_LIBRARY_PATH set?
22:32.50 Lapo right....
22:33.27 Lapo It seems it does not exist
22:33.41 brlcad echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
22:33.58 Lapo yes, but it return an empty string
22:34.05 Lapo so I think it doesn't exist
22:34.20 brlcad k
22:34.26 brlcad hmm..
22:34.51 brlcad any particular reason you're useing 7.6.0 and not 7.8.0?
22:35.35 Lapo I got that file some month ago but I can download newer version
22:35.49 brlcad yeah, that would help
22:35.58 brlcad a ton of stuff has changed and improved
22:36.20 Lapo I hope installation is easier now :-D
22:36.42 Lapo I'm a mechanical engineer and wish to use the program
22:37.57 Lapo thanks for the help, see you ;-)
22:38.38 *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
22:58.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: unbreak the wireframe drawing logic.. something wierd is still going on. also, try even harder to avoid crashing on a bad index by making sure we don't index past the bn_vlist points array.
23:25.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: oop, remove the ifdef block since testing is done
23:29.51 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060706

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060706

00:53.40 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
00:59.12 Twingy new pc bbl
01:05.52 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
03:36.14 *** join/#brlcad MarcC|afk (i=MarcC@ukiah-cuda1-gen2-70-36-18-129.losaca.adelphia.net)
04:10.12 IriX64 bbiab
04:11.08 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
04:11.16 IriX64 back
06:17.22 *** join/#brlcad varsendaggr (n=varsenda@67-42-224-119.blng.qwest.net)
06:17.34 varsendaggr hey anyone here?
06:20.16 varsendaggr anyone get this running on a debian ? ie ubuntu?
07:10.33 *** join/#brlcad CIA-2 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx)
08:04.30 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
10:14.42 brlcad varsendaggr: any particular question, or just taking census?
12:52.17 *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
14:34.42 varsendaggr brlcad, nah i just was wondering if there getting brlcad running on a debian machine is easy. i tried a while back and i had a hard time of it, however i now know more about everythign
14:42.01 varsendaggr wow brlcad is 42 mb
14:42.47 cradek I had trouble with autoconf on breezy but it worked fine on dapper
14:42.58 cradek compiling cvs head of a couple days ago
14:43.33 cradek I guess if you use a source release (which I never found) it avoids the autoconf problems because the configure script is already generated
14:44.51 brlcad cradek: you didn't find the source release?? :)
14:45.27 brlcad varsendaggr: it should be fairly turn-key, though I rarely get a debian box to test on so minor issues might pop up
14:46.02 varsendaggr ohhh
14:46.04 brlcad if gbs tools are all installed correctly, it should be a matter of ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-everything --enable-optimized && make
14:46.25 cradek hmm I found brlcad.org, which talks about cvs
14:46.27 brlcad then of course sudo make install or what have you to install
14:46.32 cradek brlcad.com has releases for download
14:46.43 cradek that's odd
14:46.48 brlcad cradek: follow the first link on brlcad.org
14:46.55 varsendaggr great
14:47.00 varsendaggr the file is huge
14:47.14 brlcad not so huge for a CAD system.. ;)
14:48.09 cradek brlcad: ok, duh
14:49.01 cradek brlcad: on brlcad.org, none of the links jumped out at me as "how to get it" except for #6
14:49.20 brlcad yeah the site really sucks..
14:49.33 brlcad it's high on the todo list to make the site suck less
14:49.44 cradek well I didn't exactly say that
14:49.58 cradek on brlcad.com I went right to "downloads"
14:50.38 cradek (I don't understand why there are two completely different sites)
14:52.02 ``Erik heh
14:52.42 ``Erik brlcad.org is owned and operated by the developers, brlcad.com is owned and operated by a company that makes money selling documentation and training for the software...
14:52.43 ``Erik :)
14:53.03 cradek ok, that explains it
14:54.19 ``Erik brlcad, maybe we should put a "Get it"! link around the "project site" and "images&screenies" links that go to the sf files page?
14:54.52 ``Erik or put a note with thte project site link?
14:54.58 cradek if that had been there, I would have built a release, not cvs head - which is probably what you want newbies like me to do
14:55.35 ``Erik cradek: did you look at the cvs tags before co'ing head?
14:55.41 cradek no
14:55.58 ``Erik :)
14:56.01 cradek http://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html
14:56.07 cradek I followed the instructions...
14:56.52 brlcad those should work too
14:57.18 brlcad ``Erik: the entire site needs to be redone .. there's a lot more that just "how to get the source" that needs 'fixing'
14:57.34 cradek yes but Ithink ``Erik was imlying I should have found a tag for the latest release
14:57.37 brlcad and by fixing I mean things that involve a shotgun and the back end of a shed
14:57.51 brlcad yeah, you could have used the last release tag
14:58.03 brlcad that would match the source downloads on sf.net
14:58.08 cradek I understand
14:58.24 brlcad http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292 is the "official" distributions
14:58.30 cradek I actually thought I was being a "good newbie" by precisely following the instructions
14:58.47 brlcad nothing wrong with the approach you took :)
14:59.08 brlcad it's a debian-caveat that something is borked with the GBS tools :)
14:59.19 brlcad that's outside our domain/control
14:59.24 cradek GBS?
14:59.30 brlcad GNU Build System
14:59.36 cradek oh autoconf stuff
14:59.39 brlcad autoconf + automake + libtool + m4 etc
14:59.46 cradek sure, sounds like that's not your problem
15:00.03 brlcad got to run.. back in a few
15:00.12 cradek probably by getting the right packages installed it would have worked, but it was easier for me to go to another machine
15:13.00 cradek when I use g-dxf to get 3DFACEs (bag of triangles) how do I control the tesselation (how many triangles I get for say, a sphere)?
15:16.10 cradek ok I see there are some tolerances in the manpage
17:33.45 ``Erik O.o
17:38.43 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_extrude.c g_sketch.c g_xxx.c): we don't use cake anymore (comment fix)
17:49.00 ValarQ ymp?
17:49.09 brlcad the cray y-mp comes to mind..
17:49.10 SWPadnos that's a Cray supercomputer, of course
17:49.32 brlcad he uploaded some cross-compiled binaries labelled as 'ymp'
17:49.41 brlcad somehow I doubt they are for a cray
17:51.44 brlcad looks like static-compiled windows 32-bit binaries
18:03.21 SWPadnos "Yucky Microsoft Product"?
18:05.53 brlcad :)
18:10.20 ValarQ SWPadnos: it's shorter just to say "Microsoft Product"
18:10.49 SWPadnos well, I had to use the Y also ;)
18:12.18 ValarQ yeah, my point is that it's an unlikely abbreviation :P
18:15.32 SWPadnos indeed
18:56.50 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
19:02.12 IriX64 ./mged
19:02.27 IriX64 duh. :(
19:04.03 IriX64 low overhead scanline-per-cpu buffering <--- gotta love it.
19:06.26 IriX64 Frame 0: 900434 rays in 101.08 sec = 8908.13 rays/sec (Wallclock)
19:06.38 IriX64 raytrace complete.
19:06.45 IriX64 sweet.
19:06.59 ``Erik heh, which one is that?
19:07.05 IriX64 havoc
19:07.39 IriX64 nice and solid :)
19:09.00 cradek Frame 0: 881047 rays in 22.34 sec = 39442.32 rays/sec (wallclock)
19:09.12 IriX64 which one?
19:09.18 cradek hey I figured out how to render something
19:09.21 ``Erik Frame 0: 264415 rays in 1.44 sec = 183412.51 rays/sec (wallclock)
19:09.24 cradek havoc
19:09.25 ``Erik you people have slow computers :(
19:09.34 IriX64 heh yeah.
19:09.57 IriX64 2.4ghz sucks :)
19:10.07 SWPadnos I suppose that depends on scene complexity
19:10.18 IriX64 and background.
19:10.26 ``Erik the one I just ran on is 1.4ghz...
19:10.27 IriX64 colour i mean.
19:10.47 ValarQ IriX64: they don't suck when there are 64 of them in a cluster :P
19:10.49 IriX64 yah ``Erik with your 16 cpus :)
19:10.53 ``Erik 12
19:10.58 IriX64 heh
19:11.05 ``Erik and, actually, I have a 4cpu 2.0ghz one that I THINK might be a hair faster
19:11.08 ``Erik but brlcad crashes on it
19:11.11 ``Erik *grouse*
19:11.22 IriX64 snarl eh:)
19:13.09 IriX64 why set the cpu's requested to 16?
19:13.20 IriX64 in raytrace control panel?
19:14.04 IriX64 mine says 16 cpus requested only one available using 1.
19:15.09 IriX64 warning compile time debugging is enabled and may limit performance.... time for another build then ill race you again :) bbiab
19:16.50 brlcad heh
19:17.05 brlcad turning off debugging might get him 100 rays/sec
19:26.14 ``Erik I've been able to replicate that amd64 seg bug without the --with-optimization flag... :/
19:33.52 brlcad that's rather uninteresting given there is no --with-optimization flag ;)
19:34.13 brlcad more interesting if you meant --disable-optimized
19:35.49 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 3 dirs): follow erik's lead, obliterate the other references to Cakefiles
19:36.03 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
19:36.06 ``Erik er
19:36.15 ``Erik yeah, whatever, that knob
19:36.32 ``Erik it's done via dialog in my latest port, so *shrug* I d'no :)
19:38.09 brlcad can you try and see if it helps to change from/to pthreads vs some other threading lib?
19:38.34 brlcad i can hobble up and show how to disable SMP to see if it's at least related to parallelism
19:39.41 ``Erik um, lemme dork with it some
19:40.11 ``Erik <-- kinda flipping through g_dsp to see how objects without explicitely known sizes are managed...
19:44.39 ``Erik does it with both libpthread and libthr
19:45.17 ``Erik librt/shoot.c ... stp is null, (and print *stpp shows 0x0)
19:45.41 ``Erik this is std view on havoc, btw, and the crash LOOKS like it happens right as it touches the first glass part of the canopy
19:49.38 ``Erik same crash with bu_avail_cpus() replaced with 1
19:49.49 ``Erik don't think it's threading, duder
19:49.59 brlcad eek, g_dsp is probably not the best example..
19:50.38 brlcad it probably is the first glass, that would point towards something related to liboptical
19:51.06 brlcad setting bu_avail_cpus() to 1 isn't the same as disabling SMP outright
19:51.35 brlcad it will still acquire locks and spawn threads with 1 avail cpu
19:51.45 brlcad (potentially)
19:52.03 ``Erik hm *shrug*
19:52.04 brlcad PARALLEL in include/machine.h
19:53.15 brlcad undefine it and *poof* it should all go non-smp
19:53.57 brlcad s/should/will/
19:54.14 ``Erik ghah, that cruft is still there? :/
19:54.50 brlcad haven't absorbed machine.h yet, impacts a ton of code, particularly ray-trace lib stuff
19:55.12 ``Erik building...
19:55.18 brlcad close to getting rid of the bit shift first
19:56.12 ``Erik and a smarter make
20:03.56 ``Erik same crash
20:22.36 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
20:26.51 IriX64 almost ready to race you, I need one thing, 6 of your cluster :P
20:42.42 ``Erik heh, which one?
20:44.09 IriX64 geez how many clusters do you guys have :)
20:44.22 ``Erik um, look up 'army' at the top500 list
20:45.12 IriX64 scuse i thought you guys were engineers... oh wait, first we dig em then we die in em right.
20:46.59 IriX64 nice truck the m35 lets see what she looks like.
20:49.42 IriX64 summat wrong with my system, can't cut and paste sheesh.
20:50.36 IriX64 deauce and a 1/2 without the canopy top neat.
20:51.56 ``Erik engineers? O.o
20:52.07 IriX64 spell it right :P
20:52.36 ``Erik that reminds me, I wanna see barbies new jeep...
20:52.54 IriX64 10518.30 rays per sec wallclock.
20:53.16 IriX64 tried barbies jeep the truck is much nicer.
20:54.03 IriX64 whyd they put the exhaust stack on the right, driver have sensitive ears?
20:54.09 ``Erik awwww, it's so pwetty
20:54.31 ``Erik what, on the m35?
20:54.44 IriX64 yeah.
20:54.45 ``Erik visibility?
20:55.05 IriX64 ah the passenger doesnt need to see to shoot :)
20:55.35 ``Erik um, it's not an assault vehicle?
20:55.54 IriX64 tell that to the guy riding shotgun :)
20:56.56 IriX64 whats another pretty picture lets browse /db
20:57.04 ``Erik sphflake is neato
20:57.19 IriX64 tanks err wait... :)
20:57.32 ``Erik tank_car.g is a halftrack I think?
20:57.56 ``Erik ktank.g is a favorite
20:59.56 IriX64 either a linoleum floor or a chess board i think.
21:00.07 IriX64 sphflake that is.
21:00.14 ``Erik did you rt it?
21:00.25 IriX64 still rting. its big.
21:00.31 ``Erik heh
21:00.35 IriX64 raytrace
21:02.04 IriX64 that took 134.81 secs.
21:02.04 ``Erik purdee, ainnit?
21:02.05 IriX64 so lets 2minutes and some right.
21:02.10 IriX64 very
21:02.32 IriX64 slow system ah well i love her anyway.
21:02.54 ``Erik can't be any slower than my home systems
21:03.07 IriX64 heh this is a home system.
21:03.39 IriX64 tank_car is a railroad car already looked at that one.
21:04.10 ``Erik <-- has 5 systems at home... 1.2 ghz g4 powerbook, 1.2ghz athlon tower, 850mhz athlon, 700mhz g3 ibook, 120mhz cyrix 6x86, and a busted sun ultra5
21:04.11 IriX64 star is enterprise and shuttle also very purdy.
21:04.15 ``Erik 6, rather
21:04.39 IriX64 heh a collector :)
21:04.48 ``Erik not really
21:04.56 IriX64 repair shop?
21:05.02 ``Erik otherwise I'd still have my commodore 64's, coleco adam, etc
21:05.07 ``Erik just haven't thrown the garbage out yet
21:05.08 ``Erik :)
21:05.13 IriX64 ha
21:10.02 IriX64 well we have the floor lets dance. :)
21:11.22 brlcad wallclock time is not the best metric for comparing raytrace times
21:11.27 brlcad use the RTFM value
21:11.28 IriX64 hrmph scene.r won't expand ... bug in the geometry browser, ill be back.
21:11.47 IriX64 7.41 secs.
21:11.49 brlcad that isolates out system interference, startup costs, etc
21:12.12 IriX64 362509.86 rays/sec.
21:12.48 IriX64 RTFM=real time frame meter ? :)
21:13.34 IriX64 ill stay wont take long to fix.
21:14.10 IriX64 and recompile mged.
21:15.36 IriX64 ill ftp you the mged src, you fix it ok ? :)
21:16.27 IriX64 btw i really like these .1 files, whose idea?
21:17.00 IriX64 templates ala the U.S. Military, gotta love it.
21:21.31 brlcad ray trace figure of merit :)
21:21.49 IriX64 does sphflake.sh mean anything to you?
21:21.56 IriX64 ty
21:22.29 IriX64 heh doh.
21:22.34 IriX64 me i mean.
21:22.39 brlcad that would be a shell script that raytrace sphflake
21:22.57 IriX64 yes works too, kudos:)
21:24.48 IriX64 i could dcc you sphflake.sh if you like.
21:26.40 IriX64 bbiab
22:00.18 ``Erik ...
22:01.13 IriX64 pummel him ``Erik. :)
22:01.38 ``Erik actually, I'm more apt to pummel you
22:01.45 ``Erik brlcad could benchpress like 3 of me
22:01.53 ``Erik plus he's not a total 'tard..
22:01.56 ``Erik *coughcough* :)
22:02.29 IriX64 Company in my town wants a linux build, I'm gonna take this on as a mini project :)
22:04.26 ``Erik like the ones you can download for free from... http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559
22:04.33 IriX64 ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --disable-shared --enable-optimizations --build=i586-unix-linux.
22:04.47 IriX64 don't take that the wrong way ``Erik.
22:05.13 IriX64 shes configuring now.
22:05.27 IriX64 they like my work what can i say? :)
22:05.39 ``Erik *shrug*
22:06.00 IriX64 *gasp* ;)
22:06.02 ``Erik if you want to be actually useful, redoing builds isn't gonna accomplish that... check out http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=640802&group_id=105292&func=browse
22:06.08 ``Erik :)
22:06.23 IriX64 who says im doing this to be useful :)
22:06.30 ``Erik aight *shrug*
22:09.49 IriX64 sorry eric didn't know wed switched to serious mode, ill look at some of these, ive got oodles of time on my hands.
22:16.57 IriX64 a "piss off user key" <---- did that guy pay you for the binaries :)
22:21.09 ``Erik eh?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060707

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060707

01:27.25 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
01:29.41 Mario hahah already taken.
01:31.18 MarioD now you know me :)
01:31.24 MarioD and its registered.
01:35.00 brlcad MarioD: what does ymp stand for?
01:37.56 MarioD cray multi-processing
01:41.04 brlcad heh, so you did mean that
01:41.31 brlcad why in the world did you put that on the ftp upload to windows binaries?
01:42.06 MarioD say what?
01:42.19 MarioD my transfer never completed.
01:43.13 ``Erik o.O
01:43.26 MarioD somebody's trying to do me dirt brlcad.
01:43.31 ``Erik new windows super computing edition for cray? blue-screen faster than ever? :D
01:43.48 MarioD heheh ``Erik craydows :)
01:44.49 ``Erik in case someone hasn't seen it yet.. http://www.columbusdiscgolf.com/IMAGES/LOTRsig.gif
01:45.44 MarioD elf?!?
01:46.14 MarioD Robin Goodfellow :)
01:48.38 ``Erik uh... did you enjoy a lot of wall candy when you were a kid?
01:49.05 MarioD i smoke... i don't toke :)
01:49.28 ``Erik uh... that's not what wall candy is...
01:49.38 MarioD judeg me by my iq number will you ? ;)
01:49.47 ``Erik O:-)
01:49.57 MarioD so elucidate what the fark is wall candy?
01:50.08 brlcad MarioD: one of the transfers completed, I decompressed it
01:50.24 MarioD no not mine, both my transfers aborted.
01:50.37 brlcad still, doesn't explain why you'd choose a cray designation on windows binaries.. ;)
01:50.42 ``Erik ... well... long long ago, people used lead based paint for their walls... and eventually it'd start flaking... and kids would eat it... and, uh, become slightly mentally deficient... hockey helmet, water wings, etc
01:50.49 MarioD i DIDN'T!!!
01:51.12 ``Erik O:-)
01:51.30 MarioD ahhh i see eric dumb of me not to have made the connection, perhaps i inhaled a few flakes.
01:51.43 brlcad you say they aborted.. what aborted?
01:51.51 MarioD the uploads.
01:51.58 brlcad i mean what were the filenames of what you were uploading..
01:52.06 MarioD disconnected connection closed by remote host.
01:52.29 MarioD one was linuxbrlcad.zip and the other was ympbrlcad.zip
01:52.41 ``Erik why 'ympbrlcad'?
01:52.54 brlcad okay, there you have it.. yes, why ymp for windows binaries? :)
01:53.05 MarioD man..... i was hoping youd take a chance and test it.
01:53.32 brlcad heh
01:53.41 MarioD do you or do you not have that cray in your database drawings file?
01:54.03 brlcad i wouldn't copy user-provided binaries to HPC assets
01:54.03 MarioD i dont do that eric.
01:54.06 ``Erik yeah, like an old cray2...
01:54.08 ``Erik but, uh...
01:54.17 ``Erik DUDE, you DID
01:54.35 MarioD no i didnt whats the ip it came from?
01:54.38 ``Erik when we see 'ympbrlcad', we see "this is brlcad built for a cray machine runnign unicos"
01:54.50 MarioD exactly.
01:55.20 MarioD thats the problem with anonymous ftp its so easy to smear someone, now ill shut up.
01:55.24 brlcad actually, I highly doubted it was cray binaries and simply assumed ymp had to mean something else :)
01:55.33 MarioD heh
01:55.42 brlcad especially after a file type showed they certainly were not
01:55.49 ``Erik (unicos is a funkyarsed OS, btw)
01:56.01 MarioD mvp 12 7809
01:56.27 MarioD smoke break.
02:07.33 MarioD man..now it's bugging me, my transfers never completed , i swear, if you keep aborted files you should have a ymp-brlcad.zip and a partial linuxbrlcad.zip too im sorry i caused you grief, i won't repeat the mistake.
02:07.58 MarioD back to work.
02:08.00 brlcad there were several versions of each, it iterates versions
02:08.16 MarioD my client keeps trying.
02:08.28 brlcad no surprise
02:08.35 ``Erik quit letting it do that
02:08.49 MarioD heh yah i should not have gone to bed... sue me :)
02:09.17 MarioD plz appoint one.
02:09.25 ``Erik mr hat!
02:09.32 MarioD mrs cat
02:09.36 MarioD !
02:09.40 ``Erik had her
02:09.42 ``Erik I mean, uh
02:09.47 ``Erik O:-)
02:09.57 MarioD heh thats the name of the house smooz.
02:10.43 MarioD for me work calls, for you duty calls have at her....;)
02:53.09 MarioD say ``Erik do you have access to a vax boxen?
02:53.42 MarioD vax code generator is complete.
02:58.29 MarioD my days as an FSE for DEC came in handy here :)
02:59.27 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
07:42.53 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:04.47 IriX64 ./configure --build=pdp11/70 <---- system pdp11/70 not recognized... *GOOF* doh.
14:05.19 IriX64 its pdp11 dork. :)
14:06.02 IriX64 brlcad for the pdp11 ultrix systems, sweet.
14:08.36 IriX64 time to build one for myself.
14:40.13 IriX64 10 years worth of work just to compile BRL-CAD ? ;)
14:40.36 IriX64 ``Erik i'll buy it from you i was not given one when i left :P
14:41.05 ``Erik if you have a pdp crosscompiler on your windows machine, I would be HIGHLY surprised. Bear in mind, just because you say --build=somearch does NOT mean it'll actually build for that arch... you need the appropriate crosscompiler installed... a full compiler for each target
14:41.06 IriX64 they gave me a watch instead :)
14:41.11 ``Erik (and --target is the right flag)
14:41.30 IriX64 heh
14:41.31 IriX64 ok
14:41.59 IriX64 unless of course your configuring *as a pdp11/70.
14:43.46 ``Erik eh?
14:44.52 IriX64 set build type if a cross compiler is detected it will be used direct quote from configure.
14:45.04 IriX64 dont use --host.
14:46.33 IriX64 i try to configure my compiler and linker ``Erik, different approach to that of gcc.
14:47.25 IriX64 heh where were you with your questions all these years?
14:47.29 IriX64 :)
14:47.40 ``Erik o.O
14:48.16 IriX64 set CC=cassie.exe and set LD=cassield.exe is what i live by.
14:48.41 IriX64 hrmph or in some cases die by. :)
14:49.18 IriX64 what do you call yours?
14:49.33 ``Erik erm, heh, which ones?
14:49.35 ``Erik :>
14:49.46 IriX64 the most popular one heh.
14:50.00 IriX64 gcc right?
14:50.02 IriX64 :)
14:50.12 ``Erik well, I've provided aid to bigger projects... the ones that are actually mine are pet projects that haven't been released
14:50.19 ``Erik nah, I don't mess with gcc
14:50.25 IriX64 ill show you a collect ;)
14:50.36 ``Erik the 'compiler' I've probably done the most with is gauche
14:50.43 IriX64 mine will *never be released.
14:50.54 IriX64 other plans for her.
14:51.00 ``Erik <-- bit of a scheme head
14:51.07 IriX64 gauche as in bouche?
14:51.24 ``Erik no, gauche as in the japanese scheme compiler/interpreter?
14:51.39 IriX64 ah dont know that one.
15:04.47 IriX64 doing pix now how fast is a build on your cluster ``Erik?
15:05.50 ``Erik um, I haven't done a build across the cluster yet
15:05.51 IriX64 45 mins 25 secs ... finally.
15:06.22 ``Erik just a single node on a cluster...
15:06.49 IriX64 sigh now 10 mins for the install... you know all computers wait at the same speed 18.2ticks/sec :)
15:07.44 ``Erik hm, most of mine tick at either 100hz or 1000hz
15:07.47 ``Erik depending on their role
15:08.11 IriX64 dropped the g file did you? :)
15:08.24 ``Erik huh?
15:08.30 IriX64 heh
15:08.53 IriX64 100cps or 1000cps?
15:09.52 IriX64 doing the jack stuff now...jack...jack shit, i know him :P
15:10.15 ``Erik man, you need to lay off the crack
15:10.33 IriX64 its that wall candy.
15:11.18 IriX64 i do crack of dawn everyday
15:11.46 SWPadnos 18.2 ticks/sec was the slowest the PC timer tick could be, but it can be much faster (possibly up to the full clock rate of 1.192MHz
15:12.24 IriX64 the timer tick cant be changed youll break backwards compatibility.
15:12.32 SWPadnos not really
15:12.39 IriX64 its so.
15:12.45 IriX64 they insist
15:13.08 SWPadnos that may be true for DOS and Windows, but I assure you that the Linux kernel runs at 1000 Hz just fine
15:13.37 SWPadnos or 100, or 250, or ...
15:13.50 IriX64 its not programmable SWPadnos.
15:13.53 ``Erik Elapsed compilation time: 3 minutes, 35 seconds
15:13.55 ``Erik sweet
15:14.09 IriX64 cmon. nothings that fast.
15:14.15 ``Erik 12 core altix is
15:14.24 ``Erik real 3m35.257s
15:14.24 ``Erik user 14m55.047s
15:14.24 ``Erik sys 6m18.258s
15:14.27 SWPadnos some of us only had access to PDP-11s or PCs ;)
15:14.30 IriX64 your serious here?
15:14.44 IriX64 heh
15:14.45 brlcad and that's optimized, unoptimized only takes about 2.5 minutes
15:15.04 ``Erik numanumanuma
15:15.05 ``Erik *duck*
15:15.08 brlcad the 16 core takes about 2
15:15.14 IriX64 where do i swear allegiance :)
15:15.14 ``Erik brlcad, you coming in today?
15:15.20 brlcad nope
15:15.26 SWPadnos my dual Opteron did a full optimized build in ~10 minutes, and that's dual single-core, 244s, with 800 MHz HT
15:15.42 brlcad ``Erik: plan to actually get some work done, get some stuff coded
15:15.50 ``Erik darn, I was hoping to bounce ideas about wdb for my meat balls
15:15.59 IriX64 sigh im stoneage by comparison.
15:16.05 ``Erik and the building is empty, heh
15:16.23 ``Erik uh... opteron? ht? uh?
15:16.46 SWPadnos heh
15:17.08 brlcad there's a compilation threshhold where it's not really going to get any faster without parallel linking and multi-directory compilation parallelism
15:17.27 ``Erik that's where a smarter make would be nice... :)
15:17.31 SWPadnos are uou using recursive makefiles, or "submakefiles"?
15:17.34 IriX64 ;)
15:17.34 SWPadnos you
15:17.36 brlcad there is a make rule that does parallel linking (make fast), that can give a boost on distributed compiles
15:18.03 SWPadnos I'd bet that ccache or something similar would also help
15:18.25 ``Erik uh, only on the second build... it makes the first a bit slower
15:18.42 brlcad recursive
15:19.09 SWPadnos ``Erik, ok - I wasn't sure if multiple files in the build would have an advantage (if they use similar headers)
15:19.19 brlcad non-recursive starts to fall apart the larger the project gets
15:19.35 IriX64 dudes whats with terra.g mged crashes on it, mapped file open failed.
15:19.38 SWPadnos brlcad, we found that changing to a hierarchical make sped up emc compilation by ~2-3x
15:19.52 SWPadnos and made it so you could actually cvs up and get correct builds ;)
15:20.16 SWPadnos hmmm - maybe only 2x or so, not 3x
15:20.20 brlcad i don't doubt that it is usually faster
15:20.25 brlcad the tradeoffs are in other aspects
15:20.42 SWPadnos yeah - nobody's used to the method ;)
15:20.57 IriX64 ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file_pointer , file g_dsp.c line 3135
15:21.00 brlcad if you're a project composed of projects (which brl-cad is massively), then you've suddenly lost all the "free" build rules
15:21.39 brlcad IriX64: that's a terrain database -- you probably have to find the datafile and have it in . or somesuch
15:22.02 IriX64 thanks
15:22.03 brlcad i.e. it's an outboard data file that is trying to be read in, and it fails because it can't find it
15:25.18 brlcad SWPadnos: not only are folks unfamiliar with it, you have to manually create custom clean rules for every "subproject", there's no standard naming convention and make does not expose targets leaving users to guess, read docs, read the Makefile, etc instead of using the otherwise consistent convention of using cd to designate a selection
15:26.42 SWPadnos the ability to cd <blah> and make is great, and I'm not sure if we needed that
15:26.52 SWPadnos (I didn't do any of the makefile work - I don't know enough about it)
15:27.25 brlcad it's pretty simple, does emc comprise multiple projects? :)
15:27.35 brlcad or have a lot of binaries/libraries at least
15:27.38 SWPadnos sort of
15:27.41 SWPadnos yes
15:27.52 brlcad what do you consider a lot?
15:27.52 SWPadnos there are multiple GUIs, RT components, kernel modules, etc.
15:28.21 SWPadnos there are roughly a dozen executables, and more than a dozen kernel modules, plus generated scripts and the like
15:28.22 brlcad not referring to configuration items
15:28.42 brlcad configure generally handles features/modules, not make directly
15:29.08 SWPadnos well, you run the make from the top level src dir, and only from there ;)
15:29.17 brlcad sure
15:29.27 brlcad that's basic non-recursive make
15:30.06 SWPadnos it used to be recursive, and we still did things that way
15:30.32 brlcad i implemented the start of a non-recursive make for brl-cad but it really just wasn't providing a significant benefit and was going to require a considerable amount of extra work to match was current recursive make already provides
15:30.34 SWPadnos there were annoying complications like having to create a temp headers dir and copy all .h files there, and other ugliness
15:30.37 ``Erik recursive make is as fast as non-recursive if your subdirs are well populated...
15:32.13 brlcad one of my biggest complaints against it is that the main arguments against recursive make are not based on user-experience, they are founded on limitations of make itself (that "could" be fixed)
15:33.09 SWPadnos not really
15:33.13 brlcad theoretically, we're using automake so if they were so inclined, they could turn all the Makefile.am's into a non-recursive setup, it's just such a massive amount of work that I doubt they ever will
15:33.20 brlcad at least not this decade
15:33.29 SWPadnos the issue is that make can't generate a complete dependency tree, because it doens't know about everything up front
15:33.53 brlcad uhm, that's entirely a limitation of make itself
15:34.38 SWPadnos not really - remember, the makefiles have multiple projects in them, so the information is being intentionally kept separate
15:34.39 brlcad has nothing to do with the user interface aspect of building projects
15:35.13 SWPadnos right
15:36.28 SWPadnos http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html
15:36.35 brlcad from an automake-using project perspective, the information is all there -- I've told it exactly which subdirs that tie into it
15:36.51 brlcad yes, that's an ancient pile of tripe :)
15:37.13 SWPadnos heh
15:37.33 SWPadnos well - I shouldn't waste your time - I don't know enough to discuss the subject intelligently :)
15:37.36 brlcad the entire arguement focuses on performance limitation, not usability
15:38.27 brlcad it sacrifices implicit usability for the sake of performance (or at best delegating the role of usability onto developer hands)
15:38.43 brlcad instead of focusing on the limitations of make and fixing the problem there
15:38.47 SWPadnos the argument that got me wasn't about performance
15:38.50 brlcad or automake should you have the case
15:38.55 SWPadnos it was correctness
15:39.26 brlcad i'd argue that there is nothing inherintly "incorrect" about recursive make in the least
15:39.29 SWPadnos we had problems where a build wouldn't work until you did make clean (or just did a clean checkout)
15:39.38 brlcad make could propagate information to children make processes
15:39.44 SWPadnos and those were all solved by changing to a non-recursive make
15:40.05 SWPadnos they may have been due to stupidities in the original makefiles though
15:41.28 brlcad we used to see similar issues but it almost always traced down to either an automake bug or an invalid assumption or missing dependency in some Makefile.am
15:42.13 brlcad it took a while to get in right, but now it does assuming the automake rev isn't buggy -- all dependencies update like they're documented to work when things are edited, things generally don't get "stuck" etc
15:43.51 brlcad the biggest problem with recursive make that I see is a similar agreement that make should propagate state information
15:44.46 brlcad i've talked to the gnu make devs to some extent about it and they mostly agreed after a similar long debate but basically boiled down to "it'd be a lot of work" and nobody wanted to do it
15:45.37 brlcad easier to start yet another religion by declaring the hard way incorrect and the status quo correct :)
15:49.37 SWPadnos FSM
15:49.53 SWPadnos sorry - new religion ;)
15:57.11 IriX64 i like the -i switch on make it comes in very handy ;)
16:00.38 IriX64 that file is farked, but still it should not shutdown should just report an error and keep on trucking.
16:06.25 IriX64 smoke break bbiab.
17:30.37 IriX64 ray tracing the m35 belly up :)
17:30.52 IriX64 on a sky blue background.
19:02.27 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
19:50.18 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
19:50.23 Lapo Hi all
20:19.03 Lapo help close
20:26.58 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
20:27.04 Lapo Hi all again
20:28.39 Lapo please Can someone help me in the installation of brl-cad?
20:42.50 ``Erik ?
20:46.00 Lapo Hi Erik
20:49.50 Lapo mged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid
20:50.09 Lapo I got this problem
20:50.35 Lapo Do you have an idea of what is wrong?
21:08.22 *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:12.16 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: added (int) cast to eliminate compiler warning
21:27.59 ``Erik heh, and he bolts
23:19.44 IriX64 that go on often?
23:20.19 IriX64 thought so was a static lib.
23:20.53 IriX64 ahh well too much beer :)
23:27.02 IriX64 This better: Frame 0: 894916 rays in 1.02 secs = 880822.83 rays/sec RTFM (Read the fine manual)
23:29.34 brlcad .so => shared object library
23:29.43 IriX64 .la
23:29.48 brlcad libtool archive
23:29.58 IriX64 .a
23:30.02 brlcad archive
23:30.12 IriX64 static lib?
23:30.23 brlcad yes, static library archive
23:30.36 IriX64 hmph :)
23:30.55 IriX64 you know way too much to be useful ;)
23:31.37 brlcad heh, you can run gentoo on gentoo..
23:31.40 brlcad http://www.obsession.se/gentoo/
23:31.54 IriX64 any experience with vmware?
23:32.41 brlcad yeah, good stuff
23:32.56 IriX64 so i hear. ... might play.
23:32.57 brlcad used to write linux kernel code in it
23:33.07 IriX64 that advanced?
23:33.08 brlcad makes for a great kernel dev environment
23:33.33 brlcad reboot the system, write filesystem drivers without potentially screwing up your main system
23:33.51 brlcad if the kernel crashes, you just restart vmware, etc
23:34.06 brlcad all in an app instead of waiting for hardware
23:35.22 IriX64 nice
23:35.45 IriX64 smoke break :)
23:36.34 brlcad you smoke a lot
23:45.46 ``Erik hah
23:45.47 ``Erik wow
23:46.04 ``Erik knowing a couple lbasic and very common file extensions is 'knowing too much', that's ripe
23:46.04 ``Erik :)
23:47.18 ``Erik and pungent?
23:47.23 brlcad most definitely
23:48.08 ``Erik zo, I am tinkink about ze wdb file format, ja?
23:48.23 brlcad "wdb file format"?
23:48.26 ``Erik erm
23:48.27 ``Erik for
23:48.29 ``Erik meat balls
23:48.34 ``Erik sveedish ones
23:48.57 brlcad ah, you mean how to add your prim to the .g
23:49.05 ``Erik a float (the eval value), and a set of [point&float]
23:49.48 ``Erik point&float pairs need to be modifiable, and need to be added to the 'metaball' after the metaball is defined
23:49.56 brlcad would include a count at the onset so a future mod or even current code can jump to the next section fwiw
23:49.58 ``Erik is there an obvious approach?
23:50.03 ``Erik of course
23:50.07 brlcad ran into that problem with the nurbs prim where it didn't do that
23:50.08 ``Erik that's a minor optimization, though
23:50.15 brlcad making it a bltch to add trimming info
23:50.30 brlcad (in a backwards-compatible way)
23:50.58 brlcad what are the point/float pairs?
23:51.06 ``Erik heh, I've already noticed cruft from maintaining backwards compatability...
23:51.26 brlcad probably all the v4 stuff, this isn't that bad
23:51.31 ``Erik they're the defining points
23:51.54 brlcad the what's the initial float?
23:52.23 brlcad the effective power no?
23:52.34 ``Erik a set of points, each with a field strength generates the raw 'metaball', then to get the shell, you define an value and generate an isosurface...
23:52.56 ``Erik as far as I understand
23:52.57 brlcad ahh, the zero-crossing value to evaluate the implicit at
23:53.03 brlcad gotcha
23:53.16 ``Erik yeah, f(n)-q=0 where f(n) is the metaball and q is the evaluation value
23:54.02 ``Erik <-- not sure how to interface this via brlcad's "in" cmd or how to spec a wdb friendly way to store it...
23:54.31 ``Erik I'd imagine having the points as a linked list spread throughout the .g would be a bad thing...
23:55.18 ``Erik <-- wanted to bug lee about this last evening
23:55.24 ``Erik but lee was busy and I decided I wanted to go hom :)
23:55.57 ``Erik <-- should probably annoy lee on thursday
23:57.49 brlcad the wdb interface is just going to call the primitive's export function, librt deals with the actual i/o
23:58.22 brlcad the export/import functions will implicitly determine how things are stored onto disk
23:58.29 brlcad you basically serialize your data there
23:58.54 ``Erik hm, and there is no concept of compaction or collection ?
23:59.03 brlcad and from the database layer's perspective, you're just stashing a binary chunk of data for the primitive
23:59.20 brlcad there is across multiple objects
23:59.43 brlcad and individual objects can optionally manage that on their own, though I don't think any take advantage of that right now
23:59.52 ``Erik I mean, I could save a two floats, then an array of vec4's...
23:59.53 brlcad the BoT's are actually a good example
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060708

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060708

00:00.11 ``Erik but if a forcing point is added, it's overflowed its area
00:00.13 brlcad since it's also an arbitrary list of polygon data
00:00.44 ``Erik rt_bot_export() ?
00:01.06 brlcad yeah, it will, and elsewhere in librt it handles how to deal with marking db nodes as invalid and reutilizing them as new writes are requested
00:01.25 brlcad from your perspective, though, you just return your binary block of data
00:02.06 ``Erik ahhhh, ok, so there is SOME notion of memory management built in, that's nice
00:02.26 brlcad :)
00:03.05 brlcad the database spec completely supports the idea.. how well the library implements it may be another contention point
00:03.32 brlcad still, that's a fix looking for a problem.. i'd do what the other prims do for now and not worry about it (as it's generally not a problem)
00:03.49 brlcad you can invoke a database compaction in mged with the "garbage_collect" command
00:04.14 brlcad (full instead of the on-going dynmaic reuse)
00:04.52 ``Erik hm
00:05.19 ``Erik and I suppose the interface for bot is a good example for metaballs?
00:06.01 brlcad for the db i/o it's probably not bad
00:06.03 brlcad relatively new
00:06.15 ``Erik I meant the user interface
00:06.17 brlcad a little contorted with the hooks into nmg, but it's still dynamic
00:06.32 brlcad ah, bot's have a very primitive interface
00:06.40 ``Erik <-- is able to make, like, boxes and spheres now...
00:06.50 ``Erik that's about the limit of my modelling ability iwth the package :)
00:07.06 brlcad i mean you can actually tweak individual triangle vertex positions, in fact you HAVE to edit them that way :)
00:07.18 brlcad there's no gui edit support, minimal menu support
00:07.26 brlcad so gui-wise, they're not there
00:07.42 brlcad something older would be better from that perspective like torus and arbs
00:07.44 ``Erik hehehe, I didn't say anything about graphical :)
00:07.57 ``Erik torus and arbs have a fixed number of values, though
00:08.08 ``Erik it's the dynamic nature that is difficult... :) I think o.O
00:08.11 brlcad btw, you mentioned the "in" command, that's src/mged/typein.c
00:08.28 brlcad some aspects of implementation are not in the library, the live in mged or libwdb
00:08.59 brlcad and src/tclscripts/mged of course for the tcl aspects
00:09.02 ``Erik I started going through manual II, I got as far as making the radio and learning a little about 'mater'
00:09.08 ``Erik that's as far as I've gotten so far...
00:09.27 ``Erik <-- ignyant
00:09.37 brlcad right, torus and arbs are fixed values but again that only affects the _export() and _import() routines
00:09.52 brlcad that doesn't affect the mged hookage or raytracing
00:10.50 ``Erik um, I'm not sure I understand... arb4 takes 4 points... period... you can't add another point to it ... or delete a point...
00:10.57 brlcad there's a laundry list of about 10 files that HAVE to be updated to properly add a new primitive (v5 only), and a couple optional
00:11.17 ``Erik g_xxx.c lists some of that... I'm not sure it's complete, or entirely correct...
00:11.35 brlcad the g_ file is one of the 10
00:11.55 ``Erik g_xxx.c (and two others) have a big comment that say "do this, then do that, then edit this..."
00:12.08 brlcad there's the object table in librt, the typein cmd, the make cmd, mged menu, couple headers, *scratches head*
00:12.20 ``Erik talks about rtgeom.h, db.h, the function table, ...
00:12.40 brlcad teh g_ template only tells you how to hook the primitive in for ray-tracing, not creation or editing
00:12.46 ``Erik starting at line 27...
00:13.31 brlcad those directions are outdated
00:13.35 ``Erik I figured...
00:13.36 brlcad those are v4 instructions
00:13.45 ``Erik lee told me to look at 'em... I've had no success with those...
00:13.55 ``Erik I doubt lee has added a v5 primitive
00:14.21 brlcad the superell is the newest primitive to be added -- it's incomplete from a ray-trace perspective but it IS hooked into all the right place and is easy to grep on
00:15.50 brlcad only thing you'll have to watch out for is that it also implements v4 support, which you really shouldn't bother with
00:17.58 brlcad this gives the list:
00:18.00 brlcad find . -type f \( -name \*.c -or -name \*.h \) -exec grep -r -i superell {} /dev/null \; | cut -f1 -d: | sort | uniq
00:18.23 ``Erik heh... I know 'nuff unix for that shit, dude :)
00:18.24 brlcad you don't need db.h, that's v4
00:18.41 brlcad hey, just trying to help :P
00:18.53 ``Erik <-- not gonna look at it until thursday, is doing greening
00:19.14 ``Erik drinking and womanizing on the weekend, then greening, *THEN* coding :D *duck*
00:19.15 brlcad looks like I was right on the mark -- 10 files
00:19.30 brlcad ahh, I still haven't done greening
00:20.04 ``Erik I'm kinda surprised I'm going... jay-lo is, too
00:20.10 brlcad wonder if it's any more informative than a week at ROTC training
00:20.21 ``Erik the agenda looks interesting
00:20.29 ``Erik have you done a week at rotc?
00:20.35 brlcad yeah
00:20.57 ``Erik heh
00:20.59 *** join/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net)
00:21.10 ``Erik <-- did 3 yrs njrotc... decided it sucked balls, so started growing his hair
00:21.17 brlcad did the whole survival boot camp, disassemble m16's, go shooting, go rapelling, early morning pt, etc
00:21.48 ``Erik heh
00:21.50 brlcad was considering joining rotc at the time just on a whim
00:22.12 brlcad almost did, no particular reason I didn't other than it was a huge amount of time and I wanted to leave my options open :)
00:22.39 ``Erik njrotc is very navy focused, and just highschool kids, so *shrug* :) no obligations
00:22.43 brlcad shooting the m16 is pretty fun, I could see doing that as a hobby
00:22.43 ``Erik just a way to get out of gym
00:23.00 ``Erik I'm hoping they let us shoot 'em on monday
00:23.15 ``Erik supposed to go to the range to learn about m16, m203, and m14...
00:23.16 brlcad i hear they don't any more.. but who knows.. it's been years
00:23.30 ``Erik I've held an m203 combo, and worn night vision goggles... haven't shot one
00:24.06 ``Erik hehehe
00:24.14 ``Erik those'd be a wee bit trickier to work out :D
00:24.28 brlcad you'd think of all the places that could be arranged... :)
00:24.32 ``Erik supposedly the third day, they'll have two abrams and two bradleys... "with drivers"
00:25.10 ``Erik 40 knots on 5" of water is fun shit :)
00:26.08 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/
00:26.52 ``Erik man, you went and shuffled all my files so I'm not even listed *sigh*
00:26.55 brlcad that has bad author line counts due to the open sourcing "significant derivative work"
00:27.22 brlcad here's a normalized one that takes it out of the picture, but then scews the project line count: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs.normalized/
00:28.03 ``Erik huh, only 486 of my lines remain unmutilated
00:28.32 brlcad it's not counting remaining -- it only basis the numbers on +- values in the commit log, not an annotate
00:29.00 brlcad you feed it a cvs log and the sources only, so it's only the info it derives from those two
00:29.18 brlcad i ran the same tool on m3 and bzflag.. interesting results :)
00:29.31 brlcad i love how on the Authors page, you can actually see how different devs work
00:29.46 brlcad i mean you can see when jra changed his schedule and when he even goes to lunch!
00:30.54 brlcad you can see who's a 9-5er and who works around the clock, who infrequently participates, who's heavily involved, etc
00:31.07 ``Erik hm
00:31.12 ``Erik m3 cvs behavior is very... sub-par.
00:31.23 ``Erik I'm sure you noticed long silences, then bursts of huge activity
00:31.31 ``Erik from the dev's sitting on their changes for weeks at a time
00:31.43 ``Erik and quit calling it m3, you're sullying the name of my car!!!
00:31.56 brlcad lets just say you can see when the demo was given and the aftermath
00:32.02 ``Erik hah
00:32.42 brlcad the only thing that statcvs doesn't show that would be cool is the magnitude of the commit, it's more frequency
00:33.00 brlcad coloring them as a heat graph instead of just red would be sweet
00:33.12 ``Erik so, uh... fix it?
00:33.20 ``Erik I'm sure it's just a littel perl script or something :)
00:33.52 ``Erik http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/normal_kittens.jpeg
00:34.11 brlcad ask me how much time I want to put into a cvs graph program
00:34.42 ``Erik not the 10 minutes to make the change? heh
00:34.47 brlcad there are others that can be run that work on the cvsroot, i might give one of them a try
00:35.14 brlcad what it did point out, though is that there are about 6 bad rcs/cvs files with wierdness in them
00:35.26 brlcad one of them you somehow caused, and like 5 others in librt
00:35.43 ``Erik wow, I broke a file? awesome
00:35.45 ``Erik which one?
00:35.53 brlcad some header in h/ that was removed
00:36.03 ``Erik bah, who cares, then
00:36.05 ``Erik :)
00:36.19 brlcad well it causes problems when you branch and merge I've noticed
00:36.22 brlcad at least the librt ones
00:36.44 brlcad it will revive the librt directory on the branch and if you're not paying attention, you commit it
00:37.05 brlcad has happened several times and even after it gets deleted again, it's revived later due to whatever is bad in the base rcs file
00:37.49 ``Erik how exactly is it 'bad'?
00:38.44 brlcad i haven't looked into the cause, just noticed the effect
00:58.25 Twingy Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.
00:58.25 Twingy I am really sorry for the priviuos responce.However, due to the competitive nature of this business, we can not discuss information on unannounced future products. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.
00:58.26 Twingy Regards,
00:58.28 Twingy NVIDIA Customer Care.
00:58.53 ``Erik nice spelling
00:59.08 Twingy *cough* out-source much *cough*
00:59.41 Twingy I just need a 20" display for this machine and it'll be bangin
01:20.52 IriX64 I Trust I am amongst friends here? a greeting i used to use when i first entered a channel.
01:21.37 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:21.40 IriX64 gotta go, new toy...vmware 5.5 or something.
01:34.02 Twingy yet he still needs to reboot
01:34.46 Twingy I wonder if Irix64 is Unitions cousin
01:36.01 brlcad he's a quirky old timer
01:38.13 Twingy laptops ship?
01:48.27 ``Erik hahaha
02:45.12 *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
02:57.45 bjorkBSD brlcad does this sorta thing, right? -> http://www.varicad.com/gallery.phtml
03:09.32 brlcad bjorkBSD: sure does
03:10.09 brlcad limited gallery here: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
03:11.15 brlcad alas would love to chat more, but tis time to recouperate for morning training session
03:11.33 bjorkBSD okay. thanks it looks good.
04:02.08 *** part/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net)
06:43.52 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
08:53.26 *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-66-72-64-24.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
13:58.56 *** join/#brlcad ^Eugenics (n=^Eugenic@bau06-1-89-81-0-71.dsl.club-internet.fr)
14:21.48 ^Eugenics does anyone know where to find a link that describes how to make drafts with brlcad?
15:23.20 brlcad there's not really a link that describes the process, brl-cad has limited drafting capabilities mostly geared around providing the hidden line drawings sans annotations
15:23.59 brlcad rtedge is the hidden line renderer, has a manpage, example at http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
15:32.59 ^Eugenics piere told me about a render to ps -> pstoedit (dxf) and then finnish up in a 2d cad app.
15:33.24 ^Eugenics it's a pinc solutionn but still something
15:33.55 ^Eugenics panic
15:57.15 brlcad yeah, you can save any mged wireframe to postscript
15:57.56 brlcad there's an output option on the file menu, as well as a handful of mged commands
15:58.55 brlcad the MGED Quick Reference might be of interest if you haven't seen it: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
16:00.04 brlcad under the Manipulating the View section, it shows the "ps" command to save to postscript -- you can similarly save to a unix .pl plot file and use pl-ps on the command line outside mged as well
16:33.49 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:34.42 clock_ my first patch submitted to brlcad ;-)
16:36.32 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:40.50 brlcad clock_: cool
16:42.24 clock_ brlcad: I guess it's OK. I hope there are not system which BRLCAD supports where #include <time.h> doesn't work and one has to write extern long time();.
16:43.59 clock_ brlcad: I installed OpenBSD instead of Linux.
16:44.14 clock_ What was BSD developed on? BSD? Commercial UNIX?
16:44.22 clock_ BSD -> BRL-CAD
17:11.55 brlcad clock_: actually there are systems that don't have time.h still around, but they are pretty darn obscure
17:12.04 brlcad 20+ year old systems most likely
17:12.46 brlcad BRL-CAD was developed on a myriad of systems including BSD and SYSV variants from 20+ years ago (hence where the extern long time() comes from)
17:14.12 clock_ brlcad: so is my patch OK?
17:24.35 ``Erik which obsd did you install?
17:26.55 clock_ 3.9 the latest
17:27.00 clock_ do you use obsd?
17:27.32 clock_ mged doesn't run without glx module inserted in X, is this mentioned in the README?
17:32.46 ``Erik I have 3.8 installed on a work box
17:32.53 brlcad mged will run without X
17:33.17 brlcad the binaries just happen to be set up for x11/ogl
17:33.31 Twingy any news on laptops?
17:33.36 clock_ so it's a problem of opengl installation in this case
17:33.48 brlcad Twingy: on schedule
17:33.56 Twingy jul 15th?
17:34.04 brlcad 21
19:27.08 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
21:07.04 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:07.11 Lapo Hi all guys :-D
21:09.56 Lapo I got this problem when trying to start mged:
21:10.00 Lapo mged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid
21:10.08 Lapo Can someone help me please?
21:19.18 Lapo Anybody there?
21:33.20 brlcad hello
21:34.48 brlcad if you do a "file /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19" and "file /usr/lib/libm.so" (or whatever .so in there) .. what do you get?
21:34.49 Lapo Hi brlcad :-)
21:35.00 Lapo just a moment
21:35.40 Lapo libtermio.so.19: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (Free BSD), not stripped
21:36.28 Lapo libm.so: symbolic link to `../../lib/libm.so.6'
21:36.57 brlcad "file /lib/libm.so.6"
21:37.55 Lapo libm-2.3.3.so
21:38.17 brlcad keep running file until you get to the actual library
21:38.26 Lapo ok
21:38.36 brlcad or just look in the dir and pick one of the real libraries
21:38.40 ``Erik or resolve it *shrug*
21:38.41 brlcad doesn't matter which
21:39.12 Lapo libm-2.3.3.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
21:39.24 ``Erik what OS are you running, lapo?
21:39.35 Lapo Linux Mandrake 10.1 Community
21:39.45 Lapo on pentium 4
21:39.48 ``Erik then why are you trying to run a freebsd binary of brlcad?
21:39.57 Lapo ehm...
21:40.23 Lapo ok let me check che tar.gz file I downloaded yesterday
21:40.25 brlcad which binary distribution did you download?
21:41.09 ``Erik you need the one from "BRLCAD for Linux" which is 7.8.0, not the one that is "BRLCAD for FreeBSD"
21:41.10 Lapo damn I 've deleted the tar.gz
21:41.11 ``Erik :)
21:41.12 brlcad you probably want< http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2?download
21:41.29 Lapo ok I try to install it again
21:41.36 Lapo sorry for the stupid problem
21:41.54 brlcad not resolved yet, but hopefully that was the problem
21:48.45 Lapo ouch...
21:49.03 Lapo I've installed the version you give me.
21:49.31 Lapo when trying to launch mged it says me:
21:49.34 Lapo Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init
21:49.35 Lapo Mutex destroy failure: Device or resource busy
21:49.35 Lapo ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8753, errno = 0
21:49.35 Lapo ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8765, errno = 0
21:49.43 Lapo Detached
21:49.50 brlcad hrmph
21:50.02 Lapo I'm really unlucky with brlcad
21:50.10 brlcad ls -la /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk*
21:50.50 Lapo a lot of output...
21:51.16 brlcad heh
21:51.52 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:52.21 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:52.32 brlcad ~pastebin
21:52.33 ibot pastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
21:52.34 Lapo sorry I was banned cause flooding
21:56.55 Lapo http://pastebin.ca/82749
21:59.45 brlcad echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
21:59.52 Lapo thanks for the tip :-)
21:59.59 Lapo ok
22:00.22 brlcad in general if it's more than 4 lines, use pastebin :)
22:00.35 Lapo ok ;-)
22:00.46 Lapo ehm... no output
22:00.46 brlcad also: ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
22:00.53 brlcad okay, that's fine
22:02.19 Lapo http://pastebin.ca/82754
22:02.47 Lapo I suppose I have to check if I have all these library now
22:03.17 brlcad no, you have them or the output would be different
22:03.27 Lapo ok
22:03.52 brlcad what's odd is that it can't find Tk_Init
22:04.33 Lapo I got a similar problem months ago when installed an older version of brlcad
22:05.07 brlcad nm /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk.a | grep Tk_Init | grep -v U
22:05.58 Lapo 00000358 T Tk_InitOptions
22:05.58 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitConsoleChannels
22:05.58 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs
22:06.09 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs
22:06.10 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitStubs
22:06.10 Lapo 00001c50 T Tk_Init
22:06.46 brlcad baffling
22:06.57 brlcad you have Tk_Init right there
22:07.22 Lapo yeah
22:07.44 brlcad you might have to just compile the package yourself
22:08.06 Lapo wow
22:08.12 brlcad it's pretty simple
22:08.12 Lapo that's an hard task :-)
22:08.17 Lapo oh ok
22:08.37 Lapo or maybe I'll use the Windows version
22:08.57 brlcad download this: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2?download
22:09.14 Lapo ok now I try
22:09.30 brlcad then when it decompresses, run "./configure --enable-optimized"
22:09.54 brlcad then "make", then "sudo make install" or however you become superuser to install binaries
22:10.06 brlcad delete everything in /usr/brlcad before you start
22:10.22 Lapo ok
22:15.25 Lapo configure gone
22:15.33 Lapo now make
22:24.22 Lapo make still running....
22:43.10 Lapo make ok
22:43.16 Lapo now make install
22:45.38 brlcad see, not so painful
22:45.47 Lapo :-D
22:46.11 Lapo finish
22:46.24 Lapo damn
22:46.29 Lapo same problem
22:46.34 brlcad really?
22:46.43 Lapo Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init
22:46.52 Lapo :-(
22:47.14 brlcad try mged -c
22:47.24 brlcad does it still give that error?
22:47.30 Lapo no
22:47.36 Lapo it aske me for an input
22:47.48 Lapo (nu|X|ogl|)
22:47.49 brlcad hit enter
22:48.04 brlcad you're at an mged prompt?
22:48.07 Lapo now I have "mged>"
22:48.11 Lapo yes
22:48.21 brlcad run "gui"
22:48.43 Lapo invalid command "gui"
22:49.40 Lapo It works!!!
22:49.42 Lapo finally
22:49.49 brlcad hrm?
22:49.58 Lapo I started mged from /usr/brlcad/bin
22:50.18 Lapo before I was starting it by typing simply mged
22:50.19 brlcad you mean you changed directories to there?
22:50.40 brlcad or just typed it all out?
22:50.53 Lapo if I run locate mged:
22:52.10 Lapo "/usr/bin/mged"
22:52.20 Lapo "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged"
22:52.31 Lapo I have two mged....
22:52.37 brlcad /usr/bin ... wicked..
22:52.44 Lapo yes
22:53.34 Lapo Now I'm ready to explore brlcad
22:53.40 Lapo thanks a lot :-D
22:54.36 brlcad how'd you get an mged in /usr/bin?
22:54.51 Lapo I don't know
22:55.05 Lapo maybe I copied it there in a past installation
22:55.21 Lapo Do you think it's better to delete it?
22:56.51 brlcad probably
22:56.59 Lapo ok
22:57.01 brlcad the problem is who knows what else you copied there :)
22:57.14 brlcad what does ldd /usr/bin/mged say?
22:57.16 Lapo LOL
22:58.40 Lapo http://pastebin.ca/82798
23:00.55 brlcad ahhh
23:00.58 brlcad that explains it
23:01.08 brlcad that mged wasn't linked against Tk
23:01.21 Lapo ouch
23:02.48 Lapo thanks for your support
23:02.53 Lapo bye ;-)
23:02.56 brlcad no problem
23:02.59 brlcad glad it works
23:03.10 *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060709

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060709

01:07.24 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
01:07.42 IriX64 regards again.
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02:57.45 IriX64 fark man, sorry this client has a mind of its own:)
03:15.16 IriX64 <- chillx has left mensa
03:15.20 IriX64 :)
03:37.30 IriX64 nite all
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09:08.36 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/.cvsignore: initial .cvsignore file to ignore the generated pad_file.xml
09:13.38 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add error checking to various read() calls where a potential -1 result read error was not being taken into account
09:25.54 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c:
09:25.54 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: initial bu_mread() function to refactor the plethora of custom mread() variants
09:25.54 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: throughout the code. bu_mread() keeps reading until the requested number of
09:25.55 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: bytes are read or an error occurs, an important behavior for pipes.
09:26.34 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: export the new bu_mread() function call so everyone gets to use it
09:26.55 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add mread.c to the libbu build
09:29.17 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: unnecessary mread declaration
09:29.53 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (pix-ipu.c Makefile.am): refactored mread to libbu, so use bu_mread now
09:31.30 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/mread.c: remove the refactored mread.c file, moved to libbu/mread.c
09:44.45 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: remove the useful 'example' mread code that was replaced by pkg_inget since mread is now available in libbu as bu_mread. reorder pkg_inget so a decl is unnecessary.
09:47.04 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: attribute kudos to at least one of the apparent original authors (even though it's been reworked some), Robert S. Miles.
09:50.14 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: miles seems to have been a code contributor, not just special thanks (mread() comments)
09:50.59 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fb/Makefile.am fb/bw-fb.c fb/pix-fb.c libfb/if_ab.c): refactor utilizing bu_mread now from libbu
09:52.50 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: wrong file name in header, use mread.c
10:03.08 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/mread.c): change the function signature from using ints to using long ints for the count, take a void* like read(), return a long (fixing the previous bogus void)
10:03.31 *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-139-40.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
10:05.10 matt_ezeki_230 hi to everybody...
10:05.57 matt_ezeki_230 i'm a new user of this powerfull cad and i've a question for you....
10:08.30 matt_ezeki_230 i wonder if there is a way to insert cartesian reference frame (x-y-z axes with arrows) to obtain something like in figure 6 at page 18 of document "Volume III...."
10:09.41 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: few more binaries rely on libbu (mread refactoring)
10:11.14 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (7 files): refactor the mread() calls to the new bu_mread() call. the bu_mread() function doesn't call perror for you, so the caller may need to if they expected it before.
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10:12.57 matt_ezeki_230 "VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf"
10:13.08 matt_ezeki_230 http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf
10:13.10 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: you can turn on reference coordinate axes similar to that diagram in mged
10:14.02 brlcad under the... Modes menu
10:14.10 brlcad select Axes
10:14.30 brlcad probably want model or view
10:15.14 brlcad that will not be a coordinate axis that renders, of course -- it's wireframe only -- you'd have to add geometry to get one to render
10:15.45 brlcad have a fancy one around here somewhere..
10:20.21 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad thanks a million for your prompt answer
10:20.22 clock_ brlcad: wipeooooout ;-)
10:21.30 matt_ezeki_230 i already known this feature... i would like insert "manually" a reference frame drawing arrows and inserting symbols like x y z letters
10:21.36 matt_ezeki_230 is it possible?
10:22.43 matt_ezeki_230 i'd draw arrows like lines... i've heard autocad does this and i wonder if brlcad does this too
10:23.29 clock_ brlcad: Unable to find '/lib/libplatic.so' within the BRL-CAD software installation
10:23.36 clock_ libplatic? isn't that a typo?
10:28.49 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletorla.c: apply Karel Kulhavy's (clock3) patch regarding a 'Tiny bug prevents compilation on OpenBSD' (sf patch 1519270)
10:30.07 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: hmm
10:31.04 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: there is a means to draw pretty much any arbitrary line data into the display manager gui, you can use plot file overlays for example
10:32.01 brlcad not one that will automatically draw the arrows per se, but you could contruct arrows using that method relatively easily enough
10:32.49 brlcad clock_: yes, that's a typo in your .g .. there's some geometry object in there that has a material property set to "platic" instead of "plastic"
10:33.08 brlcad not a typo in the library, typo in the geometry that you can/should fix ..
10:33.37 brlcad if it's not obvious which object has that, you can use g2asc and search for the string with a text editor
10:35.25 clock_ brlcad: I already found that, thanks
10:35.33 clock_ brlcad: but rt shouldn't segfault on an invalid input file.
10:36.29 matt_ezeki_230 plot file overlays? i'm a new user of brlcad ... can you reference a document or a guide which explains this procedure? and when you say "display manager gui", do you mean "command window" or "graphics window"?
10:39.39 brlcad clock_: I quite agree.. though technically it didn't segfault -- it aborted gracefully
10:39.49 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
10:39.50 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: special thanks to karel kulhavy (clock3) for his contributions to date including
10:39.50 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: numerous bug reports, a source patch, and several example geometric databases
10:39.50 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: relating to his work on Ronja (http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/)
10:40.59 clock_ brlcad: no it printed an error message and then segfaulted
10:41.17 clock_ brlcad: lol re the credits
10:41.51 clock_ brlcad: did you put Ronja *.g files as examples into brlcad?
10:41.59 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: the graphics window contains a 3D "display manager" and you can optionally enable/disable a 2D "framebuffer" that is overlayed/underlayed on the display manager -- they are completely separate and independant, but display together
10:42.21 clock_ brlcad: you could put some files on the website so people will not think "that's for designing tanks too complicated for me"
10:42.39 brlcad clock_: hmm.. well, it's not "supposed" to segfault.. might be collateral damage during the early shutdown
10:42.59 brlcad no biggie, that error message is enormously unuseful (and even unintentional that you get to see it)
10:43.25 clock_ brlcad: it should call exit(1) or something like that
10:43.25 brlcad it's on the todo list to get rid of it and do what we used to do (handle the problem more gracefully, ignore the typo, etc)
10:43.51 brlcad clock_: it does -- but something else must have been going on, perhaps other cleanup
10:44.14 brlcad did not put the ronja .g files in as example, just referenced them
10:45.13 brlcad if you made a single .g that had an entire Ronja apparatus setup embedded with a single top-level object, I would -- i.e. a single model showing the entire setup, with all the pieces put together
10:45.58 clock_ brlcad: oh, you already have a reasonably simple bicycle wheel
10:46.21 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: hm.. reference document.. yes and no.. there are manpages for all of the plot tools as well as the plot description file format -- the commands are listed in the MGED Quick Reference sheet on the main site
10:52.04 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: ok. just a summing up... i'd create a rigid body and save it as *.plot file using overlay capability. Then, i should edit that file (how? gnu plot?) for manually drawing a line. Right? And i can find usefull indications in http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
10:53.50 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (canon/pix-ipu.c libfb/if_ab.c libpkg/pkg.c): more mread() cleanup.
10:58.00 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: there's several possible routes.. what is your end goal?
10:59.22 brlcad generating a diagram like the one in vol III? and if so .. what kind of diagram?
11:00.13 brlcad ray-traced raster image, hidden line raster image rendering, wireframe non-hidden image (like mged's wireframe), something else?
11:09.47 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: i should generate a diagram which contains multiple cylinders interconnects each others with lines. Because each cylinder is a revolute joint it has a rotation axis and a "rotation direction" (clockwise or anticlockwise). So i must draw an arrow that indicates the "direction". Then i should generate a rigid body with a cartesian reference frame (x-y-z axes) in the same diagram. So i've asked if there is (or there are
11:09.47 matt_ezeki_230 ) simple ways to drawing arrows as lines and inserting symbols as letters x y z. Then i give the command "rtedge -W -s1024 -o file.pix" for rendering
11:11.11 brlcad ahh, so for hidden line raster image drawings.. presumably from arbitrary orientations too
11:12.00 matt_ezeki_230 yes arbitrary orientations too
11:12.07 brlcad the best way that comes to mind for doing that will be to actually utilize reference geometry that is exactly what you suggest
11:12.13 brlcad let me see if I can find one here
11:14.46 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: how about something like this: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/aet/diagram.png
11:15.17 brlcad i can provide you the geometry for that image that you could embed into your scene for rendering positioned wherever you like it
11:16.18 brlcad the problem is that the text in that image was not added in brl-cad (though it could have been), it was done outboard in an image app since i didn't want alignment in 3d, I wanted it aligned with the 2d projection
11:16.51 brlcad without the text, you end up with something like: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/aet/diagram3.png
11:17.38 matt_ezeki_230 perfect! thanks a million!!!! could you provide the geometry, please?
11:17.47 matt_ezeki_230 dont'care about text...
11:17.53 brlcad those coordinates are of course pretty trivial to modify, can get rid of the AET arrows and just use axes arros for example
11:22.42 matt_ezeki_230 yes certainly... so can i find the way to create the arrowhead and the "arrowbody" reading volumeII...?
11:32.33 brlcad yeah, volume II covers the basics of modeling .. basically just a bunch of connected cylinders
11:33.01 brlcad okay, i've found the model .. give me a couple minutes to clean it up, and I'll post it up
11:34.34 brlcad do you want the middle az/el twist arrows or just the coordinate axes?
11:49.45 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: http://ftp.brlcad.org/geometry/axes.g
11:52.08 brlcad three top-level examples, one is the one you saw rendered (aet), another is just the coordinate axes (xyz.r), another is just one pointing arrow (arrow.r) .. you can make other variations by looking down into the aet object, for example if you wanted to make a copy of aet without material properties set
11:58.02 ^Eugenics Is there any plans for a drafting tool for brlcad?
11:58.55 ^Eugenics Or a tool that would make drafting with a 2d cad app more easy.
12:03.26 brlcad it's a highly requested and desireable feature of course, and it's on the (massive) todo list
12:04.00 brlcad but we're mainly at a shortage of developer resources to drive more implementation of that and other similar features
12:04.19 brlcad it will be a core design trait of the next modeler to come about, but that's still rather long-term away
12:05.33 brlcad as for integrating with other 2d cad apps, it wouldn't be too difficult to hook into qcad or some similar program for drafting, but even that has some limitations and would require a lot of details to get worked out
12:35.08 clock_ brlcad: I would appreciate it too. I could design a part for Ronja first in Brlcad, and then derive 2D drafts from that.
12:35.39 clock_ brlcad: I am using qcad on Ronja
12:43.57 ^Eugenics a good 2d export of chosen views would be great.
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15:28.35 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (cat-fb.c fb-bw.c fb-orle.c): cleanup
18:03.33 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: revive lowp adding it back to the build, not clear why it was disabled.
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18:04.15 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/lowp.c: revive lowp, updating the code to use bu_malloc instead of malloc and adding additional error checking for the read() calls
18:26.02 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (32 files in 10 dirs): add additional error checking to make sure a -1 return value from read() is handled
18:26.32 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/.cvsignore: add lowp to the ignore list
18:29.01 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (bw.5 pix.5): what the heck is a hire size
19:17.47 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (39 files in 14 dirs): increase and initialize some buffer sizes to something larger in order to minimize hitting buffer limits while processing.
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19:57.50 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixbustup.c: rwval, now readval
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20:46.57 brlcad woot, good game
20:52.12 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: bzero define block is a duplicate of said block in machine.h, removed.
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21:16.51 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add setvbuf and setlinebuf to the function check list
21:17.17 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: win32 reportedly has setvbuf
21:22.53 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: remove the antiquated preprocessor logic for bu_setlinebuf, using a configure check instead allowing the code to be simplified considerably
21:23.40 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: do what burst does with the signals, clean up the preprocessor logic slightly, ws
21:26.02 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (burst.c grid.c): whitespace, cleanup, bye bye SYSV and STD_C defines
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21:57.45 Lapo Hi all guys ;-)
22:23.22 brlcad howdy!
22:23.34 brlcad quite a game eh? :)
22:27.59 Lapo hey @brlcad :-)
22:28.35 Lapo I've started to play around brlcad
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23:39.38 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: sans stray v
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060710

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060710

00:43.15 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: add some error checking to fb_refresh in case there is a caller that passes a null or unnamed framebuffer, or nothing left to do with a non-positive width/height rect
01:26.11 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): remove/rewrite a bunch of the old SYSV preprocessor symbol sections
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02:14.22 IriX64 vmware rocks.
02:14.48 IriX64 tried linux 6.0 in a vm.
02:14.56 IriX64 booted but no go.
02:15.12 IriX64 so i resorted to another os.
02:15.30 IriX64 warp crawls on it.
02:15.38 IriX64 but does run.
03:00.16 IriX64 l8r
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11:15.20 fenn brlcad: is terrylr's work with step import in cvs anywhere?
12:50.45 brlcad fenn: no, it's not -- I do, however, have a local version of the updated nist express parser
12:51.40 brlcad fenn: if there is interest in picking up development, I can try to get in touch with terry to get his latest code if he's willing
13:00.37 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: send news announcements to the new Dutch CAD for Linux portal at http://www.cad4linux.nl
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14:03.30 brlcad fenn, let me know if you didn't get the reply on the step importer
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14:05.58 clock_ brlcad: is it possible to surf in florida?
14:12.43 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/getopt.c: ws
14:17.16 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am getopt.c): remove getopt.c as it is no longer needed. code should be using libbu's bu_getopt.
14:21.41 brlcad clock_: sorta.. not very well in most places though
14:22.11 brlcad those are nice really long calm beaches mostly
14:23.00 clock_ if a beach is long does it mean it's calm?
15:39.01 brlcad clock_: this is pretty typical: http://www.beach-hotels.org/images/miami-beach-hotels.jpg
15:39.06 brlcad look like you could surf that? :)
16:39.45 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/memset.c: add the license header, intending to get rid of the duplicate src/libbu/memset.c, updating ws while we're at it.
16:42.18 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (Makefile.am memset.c): remove memset.c from libbu. memset() is provided by libsysv if it's not available. doesn't make sense as part of libbu unless we plan on making a bu_memset or somesuch.
17:00.57 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/rle.c: get rid of the old commented out 'speed boost' code that avoided the 'expensive' getc() call
17:01.59 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/rle.c: also get rid of the old commented out 'speed boost' code that avoided the 'expensive putc() call
17:05.33 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for winsock.h header
17:06.29 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows generally has the winsock.h header if we're compiling there .. it's a better define than _WIN32 for the windows platform when dealing with network code
17:07.43 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: get rid of the now unused BSD define hack. use the configure check header symbols instead of platform foo including the new HAVE_WINSOCK_H
17:33.52 clock_ brlcad: definitely not. But what if such a beach receives waves big enough? Is it surfable then?
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18:01.57 brlcad that's a big if
18:02.06 brlcad probably means a hurricane is coming
18:10.21 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/bsdselect.c: update to 1990, assume basic bsd/posix conformance and availability of select. get rid of BSD defines.
18:34.23 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: remove the old BSD hack as the define is no longer necessary nor used by the BRL-CAD build system any longer
19:06.57 CIA-2 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 13 dirs): refactor away the old BSD block defines among other simple cleanup
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19:47.14 Lapo Hi all ;-)
19:52.01 brlcad howdy Lapo
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21:05.56 bjorkBSD aloha folks.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060711

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060711

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02:29.30 bjorkBSD oh. irix.
02:29.40 bjorkBSD does brlcad work on irix?
02:59.06 IriX64 brlcad works on anything :)
02:59.45 IriX64 kids want thr rec room, bbiab. don't let them annoy you :)
03:30.31 IriX64 oh bjorkBSD does brlcad work on BSD?
03:32.07 IriX64 cd /usr/linuxbrlcad/bin
03:32.13 IriX64 ermf.
03:32.59 IriX64 haha.. ./mged ...doesnt work on irc tho bjorkBSD
03:48.31 brlcad bjorkBSD: but of course it does, quite an extensive irix heritage
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03:50.45 IriX64 heh
03:50.50 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 rays in 0.50 sec = 952200.00 rays/sec (RTFM)
03:50.58 IriX64 does it run?
03:51.51 IriX64 thats wave.g llview
03:52.25 IriX64 munchies bbiab.
03:55.02 brlcad that's starting to look more reasonable rtfm's
04:25.05 IriX64 Frame 0: 643481 rays in 4.11 sec = 156564.72 rays/sec (RTFM) ==bldg391
04:25.44 IriX64 sigh bed time nytol :)
04:29.19 bjorkBSD what do you guys use brlcad for?
04:33.51 fenn brlcad was designed for simulating tanks shooting each other and getting blown up by nuclear bombs
04:34.07 bjorkBSD ah okay.
04:34.11 bjorkBSD is that what you use it for, fenn?
04:34.13 fenn no
04:34.33 bjorkBSD panzer simulations for the history channel :)
04:34.35 brlcad heh, primarily for vulnerability and lethality analyses
04:34.38 brlcad of all sorts
04:34.48 bjorkBSD hmm i see.
04:34.50 fenn i wanted a free/libre parametric solid modeler that ran on linux
04:35.00 fenn for designing.. stuff
04:35.05 bjorkBSD like what, fenn?
04:35.12 bjorkBSD nosey, i know.
04:35.12 brlcad modeling military assets, performing analysis and engineering studies on the models, comparing to real-world results
04:35.27 fenn like robot parts, turbine engines, machine tools
04:35.30 bjorkBSD hmmm. including the engines, brlcad?
04:35.35 brlcad mm.. parametrics
04:35.47 brlcad hope that have that integrated soon
04:35.56 bjorkBSD i see i see.
04:36.05 bjorkBSD so it compares with solidworks, right?
04:36.12 fenn i saw that was in the database format (?) but there's no way to access it?
04:36.40 brlcad bjorkBSD: only somewhat.. they are both inherintly solid modelers with a vast overlap of functionality
04:37.09 fenn i've never used solidworks but i'm tempted to say "no"
04:37.14 brlcad some things brl-cad does considerably better, lots solidworks does better (e.g. gui stuff)
04:37.55 brlcad brl-cad's worst aspect at the current moment is the mged modeler, which most unfortunately equate as mged == brl-cad which is quite far from the truth
04:38.03 fenn brlcad: do you keep odd hours or are you just always at your computer? or both?
04:38.10 brlcad fenn: yes :)
04:38.16 fenn me too :)
04:38.26 bjorkBSD ah okay.
04:38.35 bjorkBSD so you're saying the interface is a drawback?
04:39.04 fenn especially for people who like to use the mouse
04:39.58 bjorkBSD ah okay.
04:40.06 bjorkBSD the interface ... hmm.
04:40.16 brlcad bjorkBSD: the gui interface of mged is not what most people expect/want, though the command line and feature-wise it is quite powerful
04:40.34 brlcad full vehicles are actually modeled with it, down to the nut bolt and wire
04:40.41 brlcad inside and out
04:40.44 bjorkBSD it occured to me on saturday at about when was it? 2:38 pm i think(?) that the manual/tutorials are part of a software's interface.
04:41.06 fenn i wouldnt go that far
04:41.43 fenn an interface can be self documenting, yes, but it doesnt mean the documentation is the interface
04:41.47 bjorkBSD why not? it's an indirect interface.
04:41.58 brlcad somethings that brl-cad does do better than most -- our raytracing of implicits and even explicits is better (faster, more accurate) that pretty much every other major CAD vendor
04:42.25 brlcad we're also of course extensively cross-platform where most limit to one or a few
04:42.54 brlcad not to mention the only OSI-open source production quality solid modeling system
04:43.24 fenn i'm not sure i understand what "solid modeling" means anymore
04:43.34 fenn since you can do csg with meshes in blender
04:44.12 brlcad brl-cad "geometric engine" is pretty robust, forms the basis for at least a dozen analysis codes as their data management interface, geometric analysis, ray-tracing, shotlining, etc
04:44.41 brlcad blender is far from a solid modeler
04:44.48 brlcad you don't need CSG to be a solid modeler
04:46.04 brlcad you need guaranteed surface topology, crack-free surface analysis, numerical stability, a solid concept and implementation of an object's interior and exterior (generally for some engineering or analysis purpose)
04:46.08 fenn you do need solid modeling to do csg right?
04:46.25 brlcad no, you don't
04:46.57 brlcad CSG simply comes from set theory and can be applied to many domains (including arbitrary mesh topology)
04:47.24 bjorkBSD uh oh. did you say set theory? :-S
04:48.00 fenn bjorkBSD: this is one of the few major areas of applied math :)
04:48.34 bjorkBSD set theory?
04:48.38 bjorkBSD ye gads.
04:48.40 fenn 3d modeling and simulation
04:48.59 bjorkBSD oh.
04:49.00 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
04:50.21 bjorkBSD brlcad, what do you use it for?
04:51.24 brlcad i'm a dev, I yearn to improve the package and implement features people want
04:51.33 bjorkBSD oh okay.
04:51.49 bjorkBSD it's written in C?
04:51.52 bjorkBSD or c++?
04:52.31 brlcad number one on that list is a new modeler that leverages some of the better aspects of mged, humane interface design, and just an overall better scalable software architecture
04:52.45 brlcad the vast majority is C
04:53.24 brlcad the new modeler is going to be in C++, though utilizing most of the existing C libraries in brl-cad (there are over a dozen)
04:53.50 bjorkBSD c++?
04:55.11 brlcad it's plugin based with a swappable scripting engine so that various interpreted languages can also be integrated (tcl, python, and bash for starters, maybe also lisp/scheme and perl)
04:56.51 bjorkBSD sounds cool.
04:57.13 bjorkBSD i wonder what an interface to a program like brl-cad should be like :-?
04:59.34 brlcad brl-cad is a suite of programs and functionality for starters
04:59.47 brlcad so any "interface program" needs to leverage that
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13:56.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dunncomm.c: tty.sg_* is not mixable with ioctl/termios so make it a #else
14:10.49 clock_ brlcad: I got the idea that I could try making an official brlcad install package for openbsd.
14:11.27 brlcad go for it
14:12.14 brlcad there's no official openbsd maintainer, so that certainly could be you if you're up to it
14:15.08 clock_ How much time from me would it require?
14:21.40 brlcad heh
14:21.58 brlcad how would I know that?
14:23.52 clock_ so better not be official maintainer. I am already taken enough with Ronja.
14:23.59 brlcad i wouldn't imagine very much once you built a couple release packages -- could even potentially automate the process
14:26.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a header check for dslib.h and libds for SDL /dev/scsi library availability. src/canon needs it.
14:32.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: add LIBDS to the link list, IRIX systems actually compile in functionality provided by that generic SCSI library
14:35.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (canon.h canonize.c ipuscan.c ipustat.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): clean up the code to remove the #if IRIX junk and instead consistently use IPU_FULL_LIB which is declared by the canon.h interface header, and that define is set when dslib.h was detected by configure.
14:46.17 clock_ brlcad: what does the word surfari mean?
14:48.26 brlcad going on a surfing adventure
14:49.14 clock_ Is it a noun or verb?
14:50.19 brlcad a noun
14:50.36 brlcad it's not a real word (at least not yet), but surfing vernacular afaik
14:51.47 clock_ what does make surfing an adventure?
14:52.26 clock_ isn't surfing by default considered an adventure?
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14:55.13 brlcad you know what a safari is, yes?
14:55.34 clock_ yes you go between lions and zebras
14:55.37 brlcad you go on a trip, an adventure, to see wildlife of some sort
14:55.56 brlcad a surfari would be a similar trip to go around to various places and surf
14:55.59 clock_ I thought safari is a zoo without the fences
14:56.08 clock_ ah OK now I understand
14:56.16 clock_ kinda Swedish table for surfers
14:56.37 clock_ does it become boring on a single spot?
14:56.56 brlcad for some probably
14:57.27 clock_ have you ever been surfing?
14:57.45 brlcad http://www.surfaricharters.com/
14:58.37 brlcad erhm, we talked about surfing just last summer.. yes i have :)
14:58.37 brlcad you were asking about santa monica and boarding at the time
14:59.44 clock_ brlcad: I don't puff I don't need to I get the effect even without puffing
15:00.01 clock_ Yes I remember asking about santa monica
15:00.20 clock_ and did you like it?
15:01.40 brlcad i love surfing
15:01.53 brlcad quite a thrill
15:02.02 clock_ do you still go?
15:02.12 brlcad when I get the chance
15:02.24 clock_ where did you use to go?
15:02.31 brlcad there's no surfing on the east coast, only when I travel out west to cali
15:02.49 clock_ what attracts me the most that there's no solid object that would require a care
15:03.20 brlcad hmm?
15:03.29 clock_ like with skateboarding I have to stay sane
15:03.39 brlcad you have to care for your board, that takes quite a lot of attention
15:03.45 clock_ especially considering that I am carrying a laptop on my back, which is not mine but employers
15:04.00 clock_ I mean no ground that could hit you
15:04.12 brlcad heh
15:04.40 brlcad having a 10 foot wave hit you is a lot like having the ground hit you
15:04.43 clock_ I have to care about my skateboard too when the bearing stop running smoothly I disassemble them wash them out with meth and then reassemble and lubricate
15:04.59 brlcad plus you get the trill of very possibly drowning each time :)
15:05.19 brlcad thrill even
15:05.53 clock_ that's the thrill you love on surfing?
15:06.19 brlcad nah, it's more than that
15:06.27 clock_ I guess it's possible to surf something smaller
15:06.54 clock_ what's the minimum size for surfing?
15:07.03 brlcad the sun, the surf, the waves, the hot ladies, the speed of riding in with a wave
15:07.22 brlcad minimum size?
15:07.30 brlcad well, there's hot guys for you ;)
15:07.36 clock_ that's better :)
15:07.49 clock_ what speed does the wave make?
15:08.10 brlcad *shrug*
15:08.16 clock_ 40mph?
15:08.42 brlcad i doubt it, but I have no idea
15:09.27 clock_ does the have have to be on a shallow bottom to be surfable?
15:09.43 brlcad nope, you just need a wave
15:10.28 brlcad you going surfing or something, what's the sudden curiosity?
15:10.41 clock_ I don't know some crosstalk in my head
15:11.23 brlcad so not puffing anything, but maybe that ground has hit you a little too hard on the noggin' a few too many times.. :)
15:11.35 clock_ I would like to go surfing, if it didn't cost much and wasn't in some obscure country which is either dangerous or I don't understand their local speech
15:12.06 clock_ I haven't fallen on the skateboard
15:12.12 clock_ actually have but only 2 times
15:12.27 brlcad a basic surf board doesn't cost a lot more than a really nice skateboard
15:12.29 clock_ OK 3 times
15:13.01 brlcad couple hundred bucks, less for a beginner board
15:13.08 clock_ getting the board is trivial. The waves are much worse.
15:13.26 brlcad yeah, you're not exactly close to waves :)
15:13.49 clock_ I surf the sun waves but that's not exactly the same
15:13.55 brlcad there ya go, http://www.surfaricharters.com/surfingnicaragua.htm
15:14.41 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/sunwaves.png
15:14.59 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/ronja_back.png
15:15.25 clock_ I made a t-shirt. Fluorescent orange on dark blue. The wife of my boss said she needs sunglasses to view my t-shirt :)
15:15.41 clock_ And the wave is taken from how the receiver output looks on osciloscope
15:16.38 brlcad has ronja ever been /.'d?
15:17.00 clock_ yes twice
15:17.11 brlcad thought so, just wondering
15:17.28 clock_ once directly once together with couple other projects
15:17.41 clock_ hmm but nicarague that's far
15:18.25 clock_ the question is how long it takes until I stop being unusable on the board
15:19.04 brlcad once you get going with a wave, you can ride it all the way in to shore pretty easily
15:20.05 brlcad usually hop off before you get to shore so you don't mess up the board or fin on sand/rocks
15:20.17 clock_ My aunt has a windsurf and a house next to a lake and she lend it to me and my brother.
15:20.42 clock_ Brother was trying to ride the contraption, but I removed the unnecessary unmasterable foily thing and enjoyed paddling
15:21.46 clock_ cause we go to lunch to the lake and the normal shorts dry out too long :D
15:22.09 clock_ is it big difference between normal surfboard and windsurf board?
15:23.14 brlcad no idea, never been windsurfing
15:24.06 clock_ I don't like the idea of windsurfing. Too complicated for me. Surfing has an elegance of simplicity
15:24.16 clock_ Even simpler than a snowboard :)
15:25.43 clock_ how long is it since you've been last time?
15:27.41 brlcad last summery
15:28.19 clock_ hehe :)
15:28.28 clock_ california?
15:28.34 brlcad yes
15:29.13 clock_ I talked with someone from san diego and he said the water is dirty that he used to get sick from that
15:29.21 clock_ is it really dirty?
15:29.59 brlcad nah, people from san diego are just really picky
15:30.08 brlcad *ahem* :)
15:30.20 ValarQ yeah, right :)
15:31.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: declare is_dm_null() and mged_link_vars() so callers don't have to
15:31.33 brlcad last time I was in san diego, the ocean was really clean
15:32.04 brlcad all up and down the coast for that matter.. beautiful water
15:32.08 clock_ brlcad: how long does it take to somehow basically learn?
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15:32.50 brlcad i learned the basics in just a couple hours, enough to stand up and ride a wave for a few seconds and that was on a bad weather day
15:33.04 clock_ which weather is bad?
15:33.08 clock_ rain and thunderstorm?
15:33.23 brlcad no, hard winds
15:33.26 b0ef ehlo
15:33.30 b0ef I'm a little confused; does brl-cad do full NURBS?
15:33.35 brlcad makes for really sharp waves, rather difficult for a newbie
15:33.45 brlcad b0ef: yes and no
15:34.12 brlcad b0ef: there is a full nurbs primitive implementation, but it's not tied into the mged modeler
15:34.34 brlcad so while they can exist and be ray-traced.. you can't easily make nurbs objects outside of code
15:35.10 clock_ brlcad: I like software projects where I can talk with the main developer about surfing instead of about how asocial they are and how long it was since they saw the last female
15:35.22 b0ef brlcad: what about NURBS curves inside mged?
15:35.54 b0ef brlcad: or what about bezier?
15:36.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ged.h now declares the attach.c funcs
15:36.19 brlcad b0ef: what do you mean "what about" them?
15:36.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: ged.h declares is_dm_null() now, bump clone version in anticipation of getting it to work here shortly
15:36.39 b0ef brlcad: am I able to draw bezier curves inside mged?
15:36.40 brlcad you can see them, render them, move them about.. just not easy to make them using mged
15:36.44 brlcad ahh
15:37.02 brlcad you can draw bezier curves using the sketch editor for the sketch primitive
15:37.32 b0ef brlcad: nice; is it possible to calculate an offset curve?
15:37.46 brlcad and that can be linearly extruded, but not quite the same beast as full creation/edit support of nurbs/bsplines
15:37.48 clock_ brlcad: you said once something about some brlcad conference...
15:38.00 clock_ is the conference on some nice surf spot? :D
15:38.30 brlcad clock_: nope, but it is at the top of the chesapeake.. great boating and food
15:39.13 b0ef brlcad: my goal is to trace a picture with bezier; then calculate some offset curves; I seem to find no application that is able to do that;)
15:39.46 brlcad b0ef: oof :)
15:40.15 brlcad i'm not sure brl-cad is going to be considerably much help in that regard as well. at least with respect to the offset curves
15:40.24 ValarQ brlcad: which chesapeake?
15:40.26 clock_ b0ef: you can trace with sodipodi or inkscape, but I don't know what offset curves are
15:40.47 b0ef clock_: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/PathEstimation
15:40.50 brlcad i know a variety of ways to fake the offset within a given numerical tolerance
15:41.48 brlcad assuming you have some geometry that defines an outline, the rtedge ray-trace tool will outline an object -- you can feed a line thickness (i.e. an offset) to the tool which it will then use to render the picture
15:42.08 brlcad that of course only works for discrete linear offsets
15:42.20 b0ef brlcad: sure, but I need the offset curve; a curve I can further manipulate
15:42.45 brlcad you'd then retrace the raster image's curve.. *ahem*
15:42.53 b0ef brlcad: no way;)
15:43.18 b0ef <PROTECTED>
15:43.18 b0ef it's actually a road
15:43.28 b0ef I trace the left part of the road, then calculate the right side
15:44.19 brlcad ahh, so not even a centerline
15:44.27 b0ef yeah
15:44.56 brlcad sounds like it's purely a 2D task as well?
15:45.02 b0ef yes
15:45.30 brlcad you actually might be better off with something like photoshop or even better, illustrator
15:45.47 brlcad where the path can easily be traced and it'll do left/right offsets
15:46.08 b0ef well, I don't use proprietary software, so I need to find a free software package
15:46.26 brlcad yeah, that's a bit high-end for gimpage.. hmm
15:47.05 brlcad do you code? :)
15:47.34 b0ef yeah, I know it's an easy solvable mathematical way, but it's so strange that no one does it
15:47.38 brlcad in code it wouldn't be all that horrible to hook in the ability to do the offset of a curve in brl-cad fairly easily
15:48.42 b0ef it's only using the cross product and the normal;)
15:48.53 brlcad actually dealing with splines in general limits the number of computer scientists that don't glaze over with an empty facial expression to just a percent or two
15:49.25 brlcad only using the cross product and normal for discrete values, which splines generally are not :)
15:49.38 brlcad have to integrate over the entire curve, handle degenerate cases, etc
15:51.35 brlcad hmm..i'll be sure to add that as a desired feature to the 2D curve editor in brl-cad's next gen modeling interface
15:51.57 b0ef brlcad: oh, nice;)
15:52.09 b0ef what toolkit you planning to use?
15:52.31 clock_ brlcad: what determines if there are enough waves>
15:52.54 brlcad some of the toolkis and libs are still under consideration/review.. there's not a lot of great options
15:53.12 b0ef brlcad: is gtk+ likely?
15:54.09 b0ef and is NURBS planned for this new software;), hehe
15:54.18 brlcad for the overall gui, there's only a handful of players that can deal with all the main requirements: sdl, gtk, qt, clanlib, something custom, etc
15:54.53 brlcad oh yeah, nurbs IS still one of BRL-CAD's primitives.. it's just a pita to add stuff to MGED which is already riddled with other issues
15:55.19 b0ef awesome
15:55.52 brlcad mged was never really written for direct input manipulation and mouse selections on geometry
15:56.17 ValarQ brlcad: considered using cairo for the 2D stuff?
15:56.32 brlcad ValarQ: not sure i've heard of cairo, got a link?
15:56.36 brlcad ~cairo
15:56.38 ibot rumour has it, cairo is a vector graphics library designed to provide high-quality display and print output. see http://www.freedesktop.org/Cairo/Home for details.
15:56.45 ValarQ brlcad: http://cairographics.org/
15:56.48 b0ef direct command manipulation is really nice
15:57.03 b0ef too bad cairo don't do 3d
15:57.18 ValarQ b0ef: there is OpenGL for that
15:57.32 b0ef ValarQ: I know, but 3d might make it into cairo some day
15:57.49 b0ef ..instead of dealing diretly with opengl
15:57.51 ValarQ b0ef: ok, thats news to me
15:58.21 b0ef ValarQ: I actually have a thread on the mailinglist about 3d cairo
15:58.28 brlcad ~ibot, no cairo is a 2D graphics library with supporting various output formats like the X Window System, Win32, image buffers, and PostScript, PDF, and SVG file output. Distributed under the LGPL, written in C, see http://cairographics.org/ for details.
15:58.29 ibot brlcad: okay
15:58.49 brlcad bah engrish
15:59.01 ValarQ b0ef: what list?
15:59.08 b0ef ValarQ: the cairo list
15:59.54 ValarQ b0ef: ok, i'll have a look at it
16:00.15 brlcad ValarQ: I hadn't looked into them yet, thanks for the link.. their image buffer and opengl output backends sound interesting
16:02.11 brlcad there's also pretty interesting potential to use them for the gui widgets.. something like an svg-based render layer for a scalable/zoomable interface
16:02.30 ValarQ brlcad: yeah, there is gtk engines for cairo actually
16:03.11 ValarQ brlcad: should be really intresting when they start using the glitz backend
16:04.02 brlcad unfortunately, gtk is one of the least appealing of the toolkits for various management reasons
16:04.21 b0ef as gtk now uses cairo, the interface is zoomable
16:04.31 b0ef oh, no;)
16:05.27 b0ef a gimp style interface would be nice, with an emacs interface;)
16:05.39 ValarQ brlcad: gtk was just an example of something using cairo itself
16:06.16 ValarQ brlcad: many toolkits should be able to embedd cairo
16:06.19 brlcad the interface style of the new environment is already set -- full context management
16:06.50 ValarQ whats that?
16:06.55 brlcad instead of the mged-/gimp-style many independent windows that coordinate
16:07.09 brlcad helps to think of what games do
16:07.16 brlcad or other major CAD systems for that matter
16:07.39 ValarQ to bad :/
16:07.44 brlcad but most definitely not looking or functioning like eitherr
16:08.20 b0ef still not sure what that means
16:08.40 b0ef ValarQ: indeed;)
16:09.32 archivist you waste too much time window swapping then
16:09.37 ValarQ there is to many apps out there that looks like they embed Xnest
16:10.01 brlcad it's still a possibility to have some sort of toggle, but it goes against most researched humane interface design principles
16:10.33 brlcad even the concept of simply having "windows" that you have to manage and hierarchical "folders" as well
16:11.24 archivist I believe toolbars should come and go as needed (automagicly most of the time)
16:11.49 b0ef when you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to think again;)
16:12.43 brlcad b0ef: i don't think the design approach i'm considering is anywhere close to a majority, other than paying attention to some of the most successful application interface environments in the gaming industry
16:13.27 b0ef brlcad: in any case; I'm happy for a NURBS environment; somethine missing totally in the free software world;)
16:13.46 b0ef s/somethine/something/
16:14.01 ValarQ brlcad: wasn't those applications developed for platforms with very poor windowsmanagers?
16:15.12 brlcad ValarQ: yes and no.. I'd say they were simply designed to work well with minimal dependencies on their environment since there's limited assumptions you can make about it
16:15.44 brlcad as an extensively cross-platform CAD system, we have a lot of the same issues
16:17.20 brlcad the mac environment would serve as a nice fully integrateable environment where multiple applications can easily be hooked in with pretty much guaranteed assurance of their behavior and existance
16:17.33 brlcad but then that is of course a rather limited subset of the community
16:17.39 clock_ brlcad: I once needed to print a webpage on MAC and I got creeps
16:17.49 brlcad linux and BSD pretty much give you no guarantees :)
16:18.08 clock_ I couldn't find the print function. After extensive search I realized I have to go into a menu of different window than the browser!
16:18.19 brlcad clock_: for an exceptional cost -- one which traditionally nobody wants to pay for :)
16:18.38 brlcad hence why this is proceeding as an open source effort, not something funded
16:18.48 ValarQ brlcad: what toolkits is on the top of the list?
16:18.58 b0ef brlcad: the new gtk offers a very powerful printing feature
16:19.22 brlcad b0ef: that's nice, but certainly not the highest priority feature to select a toolkit based off of :)
16:19.44 brlcad ValarQ: hmm.. there is a list, but that's on a different machine than where I"m at now
16:19.47 b0ef brlcad: true, but just a reply to the comment about printing;)
16:19.55 ValarQ brlcad: ok, no hurry
16:20.31 brlcad the biggest "debate" toolkits are the ones for the main context management and any gui/widget library
16:20.56 brlcad opengl is at least a requirement this time around, so we don't have to struggle with that one
16:21.42 clock_ brlcad: how old have you been when you learned surfing?
16:21.49 ValarQ sounds good, you can always use mesa if there is no hw-support
16:21.51 brlcad clock_: just a couple years ago
16:22.15 brlcad ValarQ: at least on some platforms ;)
16:23.43 ValarQ brlcad: mesa works on all platforms i use :o)
16:23.54 brlcad one methodology currently still being retained is the idea of zero external dependencies, so any toolkits being considered also have to be weighed from the perspective of their dependencies as well, how complex they are to build and configure and use, etc
16:24.37 ValarQ i guess gtk+cairo would produce heavy dependencies...
16:25.12 brlcad like I said.. gtk is a dependency nightmare.. they're one of the worst of all packages
16:25.50 brlcad only a few even come close to comparing, like mozilla, x11, kde, and gnome projects :)
16:26.13 brlcad they do have nice momentum, though
16:26.45 ValarQ so you will keep tcl/tk then? :)
16:27.14 brlcad another downside is that gtk doesn't (or at least didn't until recently) support native mac os x
16:27.52 ValarQ you mean aqua?
16:27.58 brlcad tcl is used by the lower level libraries, and will be exposed by a user front-end plugin module (mentioned yesterday iirc), but not for gui development
16:28.01 brlcad causes too many problems
16:28.22 brlcad yeah, an aqua style interface instead of going through X11
16:28.29 brlcad and yes, I know about http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/Gtk_Mac_OS_X
16:28.30 brlcad <PROTECTED>
16:28.56 clock_ brlcad: what do you use for your own PC? BSD? Linux? Windows?
16:28.59 clock_ brlcad: Mac?
16:29.01 ValarQ i hope this doesn't lead to qt...
16:29.43 brlcad Qt is less than desireable for licensing reasons and supported platforms, though they do have a slightly cleaner API and commercial respect
16:29.58 clock_ brlcad: but now the look of brlcad generates reminiscence of something that's army-grade
16:30.16 brlcad clock_: I use a variety of systems, usually on a BSD, Linux, or Mac OS X system
16:30.25 clock_ brlcad: yes but your own PC
16:30.37 clock_ brlcad: the system you like personally most
16:30.50 brlcad usually preferring Mac OS X simply due to the developer facilities and integration with other apps
16:31.08 brlcad clock_: all of those are on my own pc.. i have lots of machines
16:31.14 clock_ hehe :)
16:31.16 ValarQ what more widgetsets is there?
16:31.20 ValarQ motif? wings?
16:31.26 brlcad my servers are mostly bsd
16:31.44 ValarQ brlcad: good taste :)
16:31.46 clock_ brlcad: do you like surf rock?
16:31.57 ValarQ brlcad: dare i ask what windowmanager you are using?
16:32.35 brlcad gui widget libraries is the hardest to pick from -- there's gtk, wxwidgets, cegui, agar, .. few others
16:33.42 brlcad ValarQ: I generally prefer to live in a console, 95% of my time is spent there, so I don't generally care about the window manager
16:33.57 brlcad emacs and a posix shell do most of what I need :)
16:34.38 brlcad but when I did used to care, blackbox/fluxbox, pwm, and windowmaker were my cup of tea
16:34.38 ValarQ brlcad: ok, the emacs-friendliest wm then :)
16:34.58 brlcad you?
16:35.07 ValarQ i mainly use IceWM
16:36.03 ValarQ http://arda.no-ip.org/iceshot.png
16:37.16 ValarQ i switched to emacs last year so i'm not using it for everything yet :)
16:39.30 brlcad ahh, just starting to see the light :)
16:39.53 brlcad and the light shall set you free
16:40.38 ValarQ i believe i recently admited that i still use the unholy combination
16:40.47 brlcad so you're a haskell fan too, eh?
16:41.13 ValarQ yeah
16:41.14 brlcad maybe you can help work up the haskell command interface when it's all ready to go ;)
16:41.37 ValarQ that sounds neat
16:42.04 ValarQ why use Haskell for the cli?
16:42.26 ValarQ the use of Parsec or do you want to embed an interpretter?
16:42.41 brlcad the entire plugin interface is where most of the thought and effort have gone into the project to date.. I so don't want to get into religion wars for the new gui
16:43.17 brlcad actually, I'm utilizing a concept similar to what was done in the gimp with their script-fu engine
16:43.22 ValarQ no need for wars (as long as the new interface is cli based ;)
16:43.28 brlcad pluggable scripting layers for various languages
16:45.53 brlcad still haven't decided whether I have to differentiate between those that lend themselves well to a command interpreter (e.g. bash, tcsh, tcl, ksh, lisp, etc) and those that don't necessarily (python, perl, ml, haskell, ruby, etc)
16:46.59 brlcad there will necessarily be a cli, and it'll necessarily support at least tcl just due to OUR existing users -- lisp would be useful for the autocad crowd, bash/ksh/tcsh are of course familiar to the rest of the world
16:47.45 brlcad the languages that don't lend themselves well to a cli do lend themselves well to plugins regardless, geared well for easier programming
16:48.01 ValarQ isn't there some support for python today?
16:48.10 brlcad ?
16:48.19 ValarQ i believe i saw some pythonflag when i compiled brlcad
16:48.44 brlcad there's some code in one module of the package that uses python, but that's a pretty isolated case
16:48.50 ValarQ ok
16:48.56 brlcad nothing in current rendering or modeling facilities uses it
16:49.25 ValarQ how is the tcl support implemented?
16:49.31 brlcad python could potentially attract some of the blender attention, though they don't exactly use it as a cli
16:50.31 brlcad tcl is integrated in various ways but from their C api facilities and as the command interpreter for mged
16:50.56 ValarQ ok, straight C api then
16:51.41 brlcad we also kick off a full interpreter
16:51.53 brlcad you can script tcl directly into the mged command window
16:52.11 ValarQ thats a nice feature
16:52.49 ValarQ will you keep tcl as main brlcad-"shell" language?
16:52.54 brlcad tcl was chosen back in the day is it was one of the few languages that let you dynamicly add new commands to the language itself on the fly
16:53.03 brlcad no, it won't be
16:53.33 brlcad it'll be just another interface like all the others, and plugin-writers will be able to choose the environment they prefer
16:53.42 ValarQ ok
16:53.52 brlcad users will too.. so if you want the traditional tcl shell, great, if you want the more familiar bash, great, etc
16:54.47 brlcad that's what I mean, though about distinguishing between the plugin writers and the cli itself.. i didn't want to distinguish, but it may be necessary
16:55.39 brlcad the plugin command interface and of course the gui are going to be the two most powerful aspects of the system for extension
16:56.35 brlcad hoping that will help activate community interest to implement the pieces people need since it's very much too much of a task to cover all the primary application domains as an open source project without major developer involvement
16:57.17 brlcad design, drafting, machining, mechanical, engineering, analysis, electronic, industrial, architecture ...
16:57.46 brlcad each with their own language, expectations, and requirements
16:58.12 ValarQ with a well thought out and documented pluginsystem it might gain more interest
16:58.17 archivist electronic? are you thinking pcb design?
16:58.29 ValarQ just look at how many is writing emacs plugins :)
16:58.44 brlcad or eclipse plugins for that matter, or game plugins, etc
16:59.01 ValarQ game plugins?
16:59.19 brlcad lots of people are willing to dabble on the concept of a plugin, way fewer are willing to "contribute directly"
16:59.34 brlcad saw that with bzflag when plugins were implemented
17:00.31 brlcad people that said they couldn't code were suddenly writing excellent plugins .. mods that would have been easily accepted into the main code line as a non-plugin
17:01.03 brlcad but they have a mental block for contributing that way, perhaps a feeling of ownership, or responsibility
17:02.42 ValarQ well, people should be able to develop plugins without sending them for distribution with the main package
17:02.54 brlcad sure
17:03.12 clock_ from a band called Fire Dept.
17:03.18 ValarQ it's a bit sad thought
17:03.29 brlcad but if the plugin is good stuff, why not distribute it with the main package? :)
17:03.39 brlcad end users don't care
17:03.49 brlcad they just want the features, they have something they want to get done
17:03.57 brlcad (like that spline road task) ;)
17:04.44 ValarQ come to think of it, i haven't send any patches to brlcad myself...
17:05.55 brlcad :)
17:06.13 brlcad patches always welcome, they get priority attention and are the fastest way to get commit access :)
17:08.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: gah, set LIBDS, not LIBDL
17:08.13 ValarQ i have been thinking of an external sketch editor, but maybe it's not worth it until you settle for a gui toolkit
17:08.13 archivist ahem splines are fun (not)
17:09.29 brlcad it would be worth it imho.. this major plugin system with a new shiney gui isn't going to be production code for quite a while still
17:10.02 brlcad i thought about kicking off qcad in mged as the sketch editor.. shouldn't be incredibly difficult to get working
17:10.32 brlcad especially since both do dxf, could be a translation glue
17:11.37 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
17:11.41 ValarQ i have been thinking of converting another project to gtk2hs/cairo
17:12.22 ValarQ that is if i can get good canvas functionallity with those
17:12.58 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 7.875 sec, elapsed = 15.919 sec
17:12.58 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
17:12.58 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
17:12.58 IriX64 Additional mem=393216., #malloc=429, #free=359, #realloc=3 (70 retained)
17:12.58 IriX64 9917603 solid/ray intersections: 7525144 hits + 2392459 miss
17:13.00 IriX64 pruned 75.9%: 0 model RPP, 13088535 dups skipped, 192420 solid RPP
17:13.02 IriX64 Frame 0: 117649 pixels in 7.88 sec = 14939.56 pixels/sec
17:13.04 IriX64 Frame 0: 1125029 rays in 7.88 sec = 142860.83 rays/sec (RTFM)
17:13.06 IriX64 Frame 0: 1125029 rays in 7.88 sec = 142860.83 rays/CPU_sec
17:13.08 IriX64 Frame 0: 1125029 rays in 15.92 sec = 70672.09 rays/sec (wallclock)
17:13.10 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
17:13.12 IriX64 crap sorry.
17:13.23 IriX64 really am that wasnt sposed to happen.
17:13.24 brlcad eek
17:13.47 ValarQ IriX64: it did anyway :P
17:13.56 IriX64 *tell me about it.
17:14.15 ValarQ i just did...
17:14.19 IriX64 bitchx suck my nether regions with your face :P
17:31.36 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
17:34.49 *** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
17:35.15 MarioD IriX64 what the heck are you doing still here ? :)
17:35.35 MarioD how long does it take?
17:37.25 MarioD how do i get my nick back when this happens?
17:38.53 IriX64 thats better.
17:39.44 IriX64 cleverly programmed into every compile of brlcad is a long coffee break, see you in a bit.
17:40.33 archivist a slow box has a meal break as well
18:13.22 IriX64 hah im having a barley sandwich :)
18:13.37 brlcad hops and barley?
18:13.55 IriX64 they don't mix them in lagers and ales.
18:14.47 IriX64 cut and paste now works. thanks for putting up with me.
18:15.10 IriX64 mged>
18:15.10 IriX64 mged>
18:15.14 IriX64 see
18:16.06 IriX64 and thats *not windows mged.
18:16.41 IriX64 altho i have that here as well.
18:17.04 IriX64 bldg391 is complex.
18:17.20 IriX64 mirrored floors for real?
18:17.55 IriX64 mirrored floors are a military secret? :)
18:20.31 brlcad no comment
18:21.32 IriX64 ermf can't open frame buffer.
18:24.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: png-ipu needs LIBPNG
18:28.31 IriX64 thats better, sigh i had two copies of mged running, doh...doofus.
18:30.23 IriX64 hahah the enterprise shuttle showing me her belly, say dear do you belly dance too :)
18:31.00 ValarQ is brlcad still a military project?
18:31.14 IriX64 they put it into open source.
18:31.22 IriX64 gnu licences they say.
18:31.50 IriX64 respects to thaose guys 30 meg bz2 source archive.
18:31.54 IriX64 those too.
18:32.46 IriX64 im sure they contribute still.
18:32.48 ValarQ yeah, but is there still military funded devs working on it?
18:33.06 IriX64 that i don't know.
18:33.17 IriX64 check cvs on sourceforge.
18:33.25 IriX64 im not in cvs.
18:34.20 IriX64 id paste this picture into the channel if i had a way, its gorgeous.
18:35.38 IriX64 Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000)
18:35.38 IriX64 View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view
18:35.38 IriX64 Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957
18:35.38 IriX64 E
18:36.53 IriX64 Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000)
18:36.53 IriX64 View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view
18:36.53 IriX64 Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957
18:36.53 IriX64 E
18:37.09 IriX64 ah well so pastes not perfect yet.
18:37.45 IriX64 Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000)
18:37.45 IriX64 View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view
18:37.45 IriX64 Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957
18:37.45 IriX64 E
18:38.00 IriX64 doesnt clear the buffer darn.
18:40.55 IriX64 the top of the shuttle appears flat (and undamaged :))
18:55.45 IriX64 brb
19:01.49 ValarQ that irix user sure got a lot to paste
19:07.06 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
19:12.01 IriX64 mucho better :)
19:12.36 IriX64 say you ever hear the song Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner?
19:13.32 IriX64 By Warren Zevon (Nightime in the switching yards albumn)
19:19.16 IriX64 if you're permitted to answer this, just how many ppl does bldging 391 serve?
19:21.30 IriX64 dare i post my last shot? I so love to share.
19:22.37 IriX64 *cough*
19:43.22 brlcad ValarQ: BRL-CAD is still used and funded (with no plans to stop anytime in the forseeable future)
19:44.19 brlcad of course still directly and indirectly contributing too -- they have quite a vested interest -- though the project is an open source project in it's own right like any other
19:48.43 IriX64 ValarQ the military tho i don't think hangs out here, course i could be wrong.
19:49.32 IriX64 gotta go W2k beckons.
19:52.53 brlcad quite an odd fellow sometimes
19:54.43 ValarQ yeah
19:59.43 brlcad which country?
20:02.15 ValarQ sweden
20:02.22 ``Erik borkborkbork
20:02.39 ValarQ ``Erik: no, i didn't work in the kitchen :P
20:02.58 ``Erik :D
20:07.57 brlcad heh
21:25.28 b0ef any plans to make the documentation available online? (html)
21:31.12 brlcad b0ef: what documentation? most of the most up to date docs are on-line just not in html form
21:32.39 b0ef brlcad: I'm thinking online browsable
21:33.14 brlcad the main docs (the tutorial series) were written and finished just shortly before the open sourcing, they were printed up and nicely bound .. pdf's were the next best thing
21:33.31 brlcad could run pdf2html i reckon ;)
21:34.13 brlcad actually looking to convert all of the documentation into docbook format so that it's pretty much turnkey to get various output formats automatically including on-line html forms
21:34.33 b0ef yeah, would be nice
21:34.44 brlcad there's a guy working on that now, was all done with vol I and had moved on to vol II
23:56.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README doc/description.txt doc/pad_file.xml.in): emphasize cross-platform open source instead of comprehensive (technically not comprehensive CAD to say the least)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060712

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060712

00:09.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README doc/description.txt): s/from/form/
00:43.59 *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-139-211.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
00:46.57 *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
00:52.11 matt_ezeki_230 hi guys! i've a little and (i hope!) trite question for you... i created a region from several primitive shapes with command "r reg.r u pshape1.s u pshape2.s u ... pshapen.s" but when i tried to give the command "rt -W -s1024 -o file.pix" to have the bw raytrace i obtained a region coloured gray. Does anyone know why?
01:52.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (attach.c ged.h): declare mged_link_vars() correctly
02:09.53 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: it's because you haven't specified a color on your region -- the default color of regions is a dull white which generally ends up looking like gray with the default ambient lighting and default lights
02:10.43 brlcad you can/should specify the color of the region using the mater command (material "plastic" works well enough for most purposes) or using the Combination Editor's Shader panel
04:02.03 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
05:10.23 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
06:11.55 matt_ezeki_230 what i'd like to obtain is the same effect of the command "rt -W" on a primitive shape, but for a region. I tried...
06:12.21 matt_ezeki_230 1) "r reg.r u pshape1.s u pshape2.s u ... pshapen.s"
06:13.09 matt_ezeki_230 2) "mater reg.r bwtexture 255 255 255 0"
06:13.27 matt_ezeki_230 but nothing! it's still gray
06:13.50 matt_ezeki_230 3) "mater reg.r plastic 255 255 255 0"
06:14.03 matt_ezeki_230 but it's still gray!
06:16.29 matt_ezeki_230 is it possibile? maybe i'm wrong..
06:21.37 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-191.dclient.hispeed.ch)
06:45.15 matt_ezeki_230 sorry... is it obvious that the diagram shows a gray region because i give the command
06:45.29 matt_ezeki_230 "rt -W -s1024 -o file.pix"
06:46.43 matt_ezeki_230 to raytrace. Certainly, when i'll do i rt without option -W it will go all ok!
06:47.02 matt_ezeki_230 but... another question...
06:48.48 matt_ezeki_230 the option -W permit to raytrace with a white background SHOWING the BLACK BORDERS of primitive shapes
06:48.57 matt_ezeki_230 do you remember this?
06:50.35 matt_ezeki_230 ok... how can i get the same effect for a region? if i assign to it material properties and raytrace in classical way the borders aren't showed
06:51.25 matt_ezeki_230 and if i raytrace with option -W the diagram is gray....
07:02.37 matt_ezeki_230 ok it's ok! the command was not "rt -W ...." but "rtedge -W ..."
08:07.38 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:10.41 clock_ brlcad: I have a mental block on surfing: http://www.archive.org/download/leda009/18.mental.mp3
08:15.57 clock_ Is it OK to compile brlcad with -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium-3 or is it gonna wipe out on some gcc bug?
13:52.48 brlcad i'd suggest just --enable-optimized --with-cflags="-march=pentium-3" instead
13:54.00 clock_ brlcad: did you have to learn duck diving and strenghten your muscles for paddling?
13:56.38 brlcad not really
13:57.05 brlcad it was exhausting, but not horribly so
13:57.36 clock_ brlcad: muscle mass or fat mass?
13:57.51 brlcad muscle mostly
13:58.01 clock_ and you call that a *problem*?
13:58.06 brlcad just not an efficient swimmer
13:58.12 brlcad sure, it can be a problem
13:58.23 clock_ brlcad: where did you get this? From genetics? Steroids? Or, god save us, fitness room?
13:58.44 brlcad powerlifting, I generally work out a lot
13:58.54 brlcad not genetics or steroids
13:59.14 clock_ brlcad: cool, you just added a drop into the cup of determination for my sport attempts :)
14:00.14 clock_ brlcad: how still? Lifting doesn't increase your length
14:00.34 clock_ brlcad: is it better to be short or long on a surfboard>?
14:01.44 clock_ brlcad: powerlifting == to lift as much as possible?
14:08.15 brlcad yes, heavy lifting for bulk
14:09.10 brlcad for riding the surfboard, it's just balance .. might have an advantage being shorter, but for paddling out and catching the wave.. long arms definitely help
14:51.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vas4/vas_io.c: clean up the logic on termio.h vs sgtty.h .. can't use both together
19:19.38 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-62.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:50.08 ValarQ *chirp*
20:06.37 brlcad *moo*
20:12.01 clock_ brlcad: did you reincarnate into a cow? So reincarnation is actually true?
20:12.42 DTRemenak *baaah*
21:18.49 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
21:22.18 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
21:26.22 IriX64 Jean-Luc Picard to his sewing machine repairman, " Make it sew " <----thats not mine btw. :)
21:29.27 IriX64 can the overlap tool be used to eliminate them as well as find them?
21:31.46 IriX64 never mind, it can :)
21:33.34 IriX64 it's just that i'm not fluent in brlcadese. :)
22:01.55 brlcad which "overlap tool"?
22:35.12 IriX64 :) the one im playing with.
23:59.34 bjorkBSD Unable to find 'lib/tcl8.4' within the BRL-CAD software installation.
23:59.34 bjorkBSD This copy of BRL-CAD may not be properly installed.
23:59.41 bjorkBSD is that a fatal error?
23:59.48 IriX64 can be.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060713

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060713

00:00.00 brlcad for mged it normally will be
00:00.17 brlcad sound like you tried to link against a system tcl perhaps?
00:00.51 brlcad all else fails, make sure --enable-almost-everything works
00:01.17 brlcad that will build isolated so it doesn't try to use any system libraries
00:02.16 IriX64 back in the compile saddle again :)
00:02.18 bjorkBSD oh i pkg_add'ed brlcad :-S
00:02.31 bjorkBSD should i have made it from ports?
00:03.42 brlcad bjorkBSD: hrmph
00:03.50 brlcad no, that should have just worked
00:03.59 bjorkBSD hmm.
00:04.05 bjorkBSD i can remake it.
00:04.06 brlcad sounds like a bug for the package maintainer..
00:04.19 IriX64 depends how you install it tho :) (ducking and running)
00:05.44 IriX64 well an hour from now we can compare notes bjorkBSD.
00:06.49 bjorkBSD hehehhe
00:07.23 brlcad yeeesh, putting together a brl-cad quick reference card is going to be harder than it was for mged..
00:07.38 bjorkBSD brlcad, are you the only one working on it?
00:07.55 brlcad the quick reference card? yeah, just me
00:09.10 brlcad it's a matter of condensign about 400 commands onto two simple sheets of paper
00:09.28 bjorkBSD hmm.
00:09.33 brlcad including diagrams and other writeups to make it look elegant and be informative
00:09.48 bjorkBSD i see i see.
00:10.01 brlcad i think i'm just going to have to widdle down the command list to a subset of maybe a third
00:10.44 brlcad or get incredibly creative with diagrams to pack all the command info into less space
00:11.36 bjorkBSD sounds like an interesting challenge, if you ask me.
00:11.37 brlcad the mged one didn't take me that long at all, maybe a solid weeks worth of time
00:11.52 bjorkBSD i've started looking at the docs as part of the interface.
00:12.02 brlcad and i'm already finding the mged one utterly useful
00:12.02 bjorkBSD it helps you interact more efficiently with the system.
00:12.26 bjorkBSD so maybe the HCI factors might be applied to the docs (?). speculating.
00:12.55 brlcad they can and should, it's just usually good "good design and clean layout" etc
00:13.04 brlcad s/good "/called/
00:13.56 bjorkBSD aha! some one agrees!
00:13.59 brlcad emphasizing the most important bits of data in a sea of information, conveying the data in an intelligent and compact manner
00:16.33 brlcad it took me over an hour, for example to write a single sentance that succintly explained brl-cad's 2d and 3d coordinate system conventions, choosing just the right words in the right order to best utilize the space constraint
00:17.04 bjorkBSD hmmm.
00:17.16 brlcad seriously feeling cramped for space for this overall brl-cad quick reference sheet though
00:17.17 bjorkBSD sounds like a great way of RTFM...
00:17.30 bjorkBSD sounds like a newbie exercise!
00:19.10 bjorkBSD there! IriX64 it's your job :))
00:19.24 bjorkBSD i'd do it, but i don't even have brlcad anymore :( (lies)
00:19.42 IriX64 gotta know the commands and language before you can write it up bjorkBSD.
00:20.00 brlcad it's incredibly rare for a dev to have enough design, language, layout, publication experience to put this kind of stuff together
00:20.19 IriX64 delegate it :)
00:20.19 brlcad IriX64: even I don't know all the commands
00:20.20 fenn oh brlcad you're so awesome
00:20.28 bjorkBSD but it's writing. the process of writing it *will* teach all those things, IriX64
00:20.56 brlcad fenn: heh
00:20.56 IriX64 not unless you try every command while you write it up.
00:21.08 IriX64 fenn is that a dig ;)
00:21.35 brlcad fenn: that was just a statement in general and didn't really include myself in it .. it takes me way too long
00:22.23 brlcad i mean, you leave untrained devs alone with a design and you end up with stuff like mged :)
00:22.39 IriX64 or better :)
00:22.42 fenn if documentation is hard to write it usually means the interface is bad
00:23.17 IriX64 whats so hard about click edit click gemoetry browser and your in business?
00:23.21 brlcad heh, mged's docs weren't hard to write.. and I wouldn't say the interface is good :P
00:24.55 brlcad this quick reference card is more like documenting everything you can do in bash briefly in just a page or two including all the standard posix commands
00:25.13 IriX64 eeek :{
00:25.35 IriX64 why you?
00:25.42 brlcad sure writing the 20 page manpage is easy, or even a book on the shell .. but condensing the info I think is non-trivial
00:26.02 IriX64 you must live wrong. :)
00:26.07 brlcad IriX64: who else is going to do it?
00:26.12 IriX64 to be assigned such.
00:26.34 brlcad i don't assign anything
00:26.45 brlcad i think the project needs it
00:26.57 IriX64 you saying you seriuosly know ever command?
00:27.06 brlcad do an ls on /usr/brlcad/bin and tell me what anything other than rt and mged does?
00:27.09 bjorkBSD he said he didn't.
00:27.32 brlcad I know most of them, but certainly not all of them
00:27.56 brlcad at least not without taking a peek at their source for a reminder
00:28.07 IriX64 as i said i'm a newbie but willing to learn.
00:29.08 brlcad a lot of it is easily categorized fortunately.. might come up with some sort of diagram that's better than listing them all out
00:29.40 brlcad example, all the image reader tools that display to a framebuffer: bw-fb cat-fb cell-fb cmap-fb gif-fb gif2fb orle-fb pix-fb pixflip-fb pl-fb png-fb polar-fb pp-fb rle-fb spm-fb
00:30.35 IriX64 better explain just what a framebuffer is to brlcad.
00:30.52 brlcad yep, that's going in too
00:31.11 IriX64 put it all in a gui :)
00:31.26 bjorkBSD IriX64 good good, you're lending a hand? :D
00:31.33 IriX64 heh
00:31.38 brlcad fwiw.. "brlcad" usually refers to me, "brl-cad" would be to the project in casual parlance
00:32.03 brlcad no need, just confusing me :)
00:32.07 fenn i thought your nick was brlcad so whenever something was on-topic it'd beep at you
00:32.18 IriX64 bjorkBSD lets collaborate we'll do the gui.
00:32.49 IriX64 for instance tools-->raytrace control panel
00:32.54 brlcad fenn: nah, I have keyword highlighting turned on for that
00:33.29 IriX64 simply have it pass paramters or defaulkts to rt.
00:33.37 IriX64 err defaults.
00:33.42 brlcad and it's only because my primary dev machine is packed up for a move that I'm mostly chatting as brlcad, often switch names around :)
00:35.49 bjorkBSD gui? i can't code for shit IriX64
00:36.09 bjorkBSD sure i can read c and what not. but i've been too <insert reasons here> to code anything.
00:36.17 brlcad the official project name is "BRL-CAD" case and dash included. "brl-cad" is usually used for casual talk, "brlcad" only for file and directory names where the dash can be unconventional, annoying, unsupported, etc
00:36.49 fenn oo there is brl-cad.org
00:36.51 brlcad certainly not a big deal, though
00:37.37 brlcad yeah, http://www.BRL-CAD.org is the shiznits
00:37.50 brlcad *cough*
00:38.04 brlcad another design suckage that someone will hopefully work on
00:39.43 fenn is the brl-cad API documented anywhere?
00:40.11 fenn i mean besides doxygen
00:40.31 brlcad the code is the prime source, but yeah, there is more
00:40.31 IriX64 you guys disabled doxygen in 7.6.?
00:41.15 fenn gotta love those automatically generated graphviz diagrams
00:41.22 brlcad there have been several research papers for the core libraries, as well as presentations at conferences (at least one is available on the website)
00:44.52 IriX64 optical shader library?
00:46.29 brlcad hmm?
00:46.35 brlcad liboptical
00:47.31 IriX64 multi-pane on lets tango.
00:47.33 brlcad that's where the light transport simulation of the ray-tracer is managed, for generating optical images
00:47.55 IriX64 seems to be automatic in raytrace control panel.
00:47.57 brlcad (as opposed to infrared, xray, or some other multispectral tracing, or even a different algorithm like path tracing)
00:48.14 IriX64 you support all those?
00:48.24 brlcad the raytrace control panel kicks off 'rt', which is the optical ray tracer (that uses liboptical)
00:48.42 brlcad yes, they're all supported to various decrees
00:49.04 IriX64 right that i know but the database background overrides raytrace control panel, should be the other way around no?
00:50.26 brlcad database background?
00:50.26 IriX64 and the framebuffer X-lay selection and or object selection don't seem to stick across invocations.
00:50.37 IriX64 color scheme.
00:51.04 brlcad still not following you
00:51.13 IriX64 thats all right.
00:51.16 IriX64 :)
00:51.22 brlcad different terminology perhaps :)
00:51.37 IriX64 im a coder not a user. more's the pity.
00:51.41 brlcad the raytracer ALSO supports different lighting models, that's a different concept
00:52.09 brlcad different shaders too
00:52.29 IriX64 if you choose a background color in the control panel, the background is drawn in that color as the solid model is rendered on the screen.
00:52.33 brlcad so it can be using the optics library and implement a completely non-optical shader algorithm (like cell shading, or flat shading)
00:52.49 IriX64 thats all math to me :)
00:53.22 brlcad ahh, that's just that.. a background color is drawn when the model is missed.. nothing more or less -- doesn't even really involve the lighting model or shaders or spectral mode
00:53.38 IriX64 instead of a dark background you can choose your own color.
00:54.17 brlcad yep, but it's just a visualization/data hack
00:54.35 IriX64 ahh ok so its not even in the database is that right?
00:54.41 brlcad used for simulating an alpha channel from a time before they existed
00:54.52 bjorkBSD brlcad, and all this info's in the code?
00:54.52 brlcad it's not in the geometry database
00:55.13 IriX64 on that note i go see a man about a recurring leak, bbiab :)
00:55.19 brlcad bjorkBSD: yes, some of what I just said is even in manpages
00:55.32 bjorkBSD hmm i see.
00:55.44 brlcad like man brlcad, man libfb, man librt
00:56.00 brlcad fenn: i suppose those would quality as api documentation
00:56.28 brlcad though I haven't reviewed them in quite some time to update them with recent modifications
01:14.36 IriX64 wheres the plot from a file tool?
01:15.01 IriX64 err well i can send it to a plot file but how do i plot it?
01:15.38 IriX64 bjorkBSD?
01:16.03 IriX64 fenn?
01:19.07 bjorkBSD no.
01:19.17 bjorkBSD alright. yes. :D
01:21.34 *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-70-239-91-104.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net)
01:24.09 IriX64 look bjorkBSD comedians usually get paid :)
01:26.44 bjorkBSD heheheh
01:34.17 fenn sourceforge has such horrible service lately
01:45.39 brlcad fenn: yet still free, gift horse and all
01:45.39 IriX64 fanfare.... lets eat.
01:45.57 IriX64 what the pizza :P
01:46.26 brlcad when you say plot file, what do you mean?
01:46.30 fenn there are lots of free websites that dont consistently neglect service interruptions..
01:46.34 brlcad brl-cad deals with .pl unix-style plot files
01:47.13 bjorkBSD brlcad, is there a GUI interface you like?
01:47.24 bjorkBSD for drawing programs and whatnot.
01:47.33 brlcad bjorkBSD: you mean in general from an hci perspective or cad-specific?
01:48.09 IriX64 mine says cray.plot.
01:48.55 brlcad IriX64: how did you create cray.plot?
01:49.13 IriX64 jeez he's hauling out the cat-o-nine, err wait, wrong service :)
01:49.21 IriX64 render view
01:49.29 brlcad ah
01:49.50 IriX64 there's a postscript option too as well as rt.
01:50.30 brlcad there's a whole slew of pl-* tools for manipulating plot files.. if you saved a 3D plot file, you can overlay that into mged again for visualization
01:50.51 brlcad if you just want a quick view, something like pl-fb -F/dev/Xl
01:51.07 IriX64 thankyou... just a sec.
01:52.04 IriX64 its a standalone command :(
01:53.51 IriX64 smoke break. :)
02:06.30 bjorkBSD i meant cad specific.
02:06.43 bjorkBSD sorry, i was afIRC
02:09.08 fenn qcad has a decent UI philosopy
02:09.09 brlcad bjorkBSD: i don't think I'd consider any of them spectacular though many of them have some really nice isolated features
02:09.31 bjorkBSD ah okay.
02:09.36 brlcad unigraphics goes to pretty extensive lengths to get rid of modalities for example, and does an okay job at it
02:09.39 bjorkBSD what'll a good one look like?
02:10.38 fenn a good one will not force you to switch back and forth between keyboard and mouse
02:11.27 bjorkBSD hmmm.
02:11.44 bjorkBSD so one that's exclusively keyboarded or moused?
02:12.06 bjorkBSD kb/mouse mutual exclusivity is a myth i say.
02:12.09 brlcad no, primarily gui/mouse driven
02:12.21 bjorkBSD they're meant to be complementary.
02:12.39 fenn i didnt say you couldnt use both at the same time
02:12.43 bjorkBSD i just don't buy the argument that switching hands from keyboard to mouse is such a drain on time.
02:12.52 fenn blender does a nice job of using both
02:13.00 bjorkBSD cool.
02:13.05 bjorkBSD i haven't looked at blender yet.
02:14.37 bjorkBSD mouseless keyboard/keyboardless mouse :)
02:15.35 bjorkBSD given that the mouse has been around since the early '60s ... it's a pity it's still so misunderstood.
02:16.08 fenn poor poor mouse, nobody understands him
02:17.48 bjorkBSD fenn how do you think the mouse should be used?
02:17.56 bjorkBSD exclusively as a paper weight?
02:18.09 bjorkBSD ... in a paperless world, no less :)
02:18.39 fenn i think the mouse is more than a paperlessweight]
02:18.52 bjorkBSD heheh.
02:18.56 bjorkBSD an ornament then.
02:19.03 bjorkBSD the more buttons, the more 3l33t :D
02:19.17 bjorkBSD and if it's just one button, you're a mac user and 3l33t regardless :P
02:19.18 bjorkBSD j/k
02:19.31 fenn navigating in 3d is a lot easier with a mouse
02:19.48 fenn so is selecting a particular object
02:20.08 fenn describing relationships between objects is not so easy
02:21.14 bjorkBSD with a mouse?
02:21.28 fenn although i have seen some cool ideas for a "directed graph" GUI using mostly mouse input
02:22.54 bjorkBSD hmm.
02:23.49 bjorkBSD i dunno, but i think a lot of the matters regarding interface design is too firmly focused on making it easier for newbies to get going.
02:24.21 bjorkBSD newbies like me, for instance :D
02:24.43 bjorkBSD one simply gets used to the interface after a while i think...
02:24.54 fenn interfaces should be self-documenting or you spend too much time reading documentation instead of playing around
02:25.19 bjorkBSD hmm.
02:25.34 fenn there's no reason i should have to look up what an rpp is
02:25.38 bjorkBSD playing around shouldn't be hindered, that's true.
02:25.45 bjorkBSD rpp? wtf is that?
02:25.48 fenn lol
02:26.25 bjorkBSD return polyplenum?
02:26.26 bjorkBSD what?
02:26.43 fenn regular perpendicular poly-something
02:26.45 fenn its a cube
02:27.00 bjorkBSD rpp?
02:27.02 bjorkBSD how does that stand for cube?
02:27.12 fenn exactly
02:27.28 fenn rectangular paralellepiped, sorry
02:27.35 bjorkBSD that makes sense.
02:27.55 bjorkBSD there's terminology associated with 3D that a user should be familiar with, i s'pose.
02:28.01 bjorkBSD so that's not a big deal at all.
02:28.22 bjorkBSD a nice glossary (and a wizard? heaven forbid! and hell too.) should help one along nicely :D
02:28.23 fenn i've never heard the term paralellepiped before brlcad
02:28.30 bjorkBSD i have.
02:28.38 fenn see i'm even spelling it wrong
02:31.30 brlcad it's the mathematical term for better or worse
02:32.12 fenn anyway my point was that the interface isnt self documenting
02:32.35 brlcad mged was never implemented to be user-friendly, self documenting, teaching or anything of the sort -- it was implemented with a very specific purpose in hand for a very specific environment
02:33.10 bjorkBSD fenn, c'mon.
02:33.15 brlcad for which it serves that purpose rather well with experts that can model things in it faster than the best large-scale cad systems
02:33.30 bjorkBSD must the interface be a solid geometry tutorial?
02:33.51 bjorkBSD i think with a basic understanding of the concepts behind it (SG), the interface can't be *that* obscure.
02:34.11 fenn bjorkBSD: a simple picture of an rpp would suffice
02:34.34 IriX64 solid geometry?
02:34.35 bjorkBSD that's true.
02:34.37 bjorkBSD yes IriX64
02:34.51 IriX64 thought it was a modeling system.
02:34.52 brlcad it's hard to justify spending tax payer dollars on features that make no sense for that environment (why write a tutorial when one of the core developers can give you personal attention on demand in considerably less time)
02:35.16 bjorkBSD That portion of geometry dealing with solids, as opposed to plane geometry. Solid geometry is concerned with polyhedra, spheres, three-dimensional solids, lines in three-space, planes, and so on.
02:35.26 bjorkBSD from wolfram ^
02:35.57 brlcad IriX64: it is a "system", hence all the command line tools -- meant to be used together, can pipe inputs/outputs ala cat, grep, sed, awk, etc
02:36.10 IriX64 my definition is simply draw it in 3d and fill it in to make it solid, wheres the *solid geometry come in?
02:36.14 bjorkBSD no one expects a text editor to be self-writing. one assumes the person using the text editor knows how to read and write.
02:36.19 fenn brlcad: i'm not complaining at all, bjorkBSD was asking what should be part of a "good" interface
02:37.13 IriX64 56^7=an ellipse, thats solid geometry if you apply it to 3 dimensions.
02:37.14 bjorkBSD and basic solid geometry - correct me if i'm wrong here - with boolean logic is the vocabulary of brl-cad.
02:37.26 brlcad glad to hear it, though it is a common gripe and misconception of the project either way not having been open source for very long
02:38.29 IriX64 err 5.6 *cough*
02:38.50 bjorkBSD brlcad, are my assumptions wrong?
02:39.25 brlcad bjorkBSD: not sure, what exactly is the assumption? something about the vocabulary?
02:39.37 bjorkBSD heheh
02:39.44 bjorkBSD solid geometry/boolean algebra.
02:39.45 brlcad the failing is that mged exposes the low-level code representation/names of object types
02:39.48 bjorkBSD oops. boolean logic.
02:39.52 brlcad rpp, arb8, sph, etc
02:39.57 bjorkBSD hmm okay .
02:40.01 brlcad you mean CSG?
02:40.05 bjorkBSD yeah
02:40.12 fenn brlcad: that's not necessarily a failing, as it makes it easier for potential developers to understand what is going on underneath
02:40.19 brlcad union, difference, intersection's pretty industry standard operations
02:40.46 fenn or script writers
02:40.59 brlcad fenn: true, though it goes both ways -- requires users to learn a lot more implementation detail than is really necessary for their task
02:42.13 bjorkBSD hmm.
02:44.38 bjorkBSD damn, i wish i could do something about the interface :D
02:46.46 bjorkBSD what does it take, brlcad ?
02:47.49 fenn learn a programming language, a GUI toolkit, and the BRL-CAD API and you're all set
02:48.11 brlcad skip to it! :)
02:48.26 bjorkBSD hehehhe.
02:48.32 bjorkBSD i'll get right on it.
02:48.35 bjorkBSD C you said?
02:48.49 brlcad hell, if you did the first two, I'd cater custom attention on the third
02:49.05 fenn i was thinking about a python UI with pygtk perhaps
02:49.26 bjorkBSD python?
02:49.31 bjorkBSD the tyranny of choice.
02:49.33 fenn people seem quite picky about toolkits for some reason
02:49.41 bjorkBSD how'bout a web interface? those are oh so popular :D
02:50.06 brlcad everyone seems to have religion when it comes to interface
02:50.44 bjorkBSD my belief (and i'm prepared to prove this with a bat) is that the docs MUST be read :D
02:51.01 bjorkBSD but please don't throw it in my face as i have no intention of reading 'em myself :D
02:51.17 fenn that's nice
02:51.45 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
02:52.53 fenn on the other hand i'm learning lisp right now and apparently it's a well known language in the cad field
02:53.04 bjorkBSD through autocad, yeah.
02:54.05 bjorkBSD CL can be very VERY unintuitive.
02:54.08 brlcad bjorkBSD: another league of experience to be learned from games -- there are some incredibly complex games out there, and rare a gamer that reads paper before ripping the disc out, installing, and playing
02:54.26 bjorkBSD brlcad, but the interface for games is fairly well known.
02:54.32 fenn hardly
02:54.40 bjorkBSD left right forwards backwards. and oh where's the shoot button? there!
02:54.42 bjorkBSD blam blam! :D
02:55.40 bjorkBSD but i see what you're saying.
02:55.43 fenn i guess it depends which games you play
02:55.57 bjorkBSD the shoot-em-ups are more or less the same.
02:56.00 bjorkBSD the driving games too.
02:56.09 bjorkBSD but a lot of people look up cheat codes. they read and memorize them.
02:56.35 brlcad don't necessarily mean fps games
02:57.06 fenn there are some horrendously complex mmorpg's these days
02:57.49 bjorkBSD hmmm.
02:57.55 fenn brlcad: do you have any preferences about GUI implementation?
02:58.17 brlcad carefully? :)
03:00.53 IriX64 the one that allows "push the button and make it happen"
03:01.35 IriX64 ls=senirity list prints etc.
03:01.41 IriX64 err seniority
03:01.50 brlcad fenn: mostly relating to efficiency taking precedence over preference or expectation
03:02.22 brlcad e.g. modalities in general bad, quasi-modes in general good
03:02.37 fenn could you explain what you mean by modality?
03:02.59 IriX64 doesnt go away when u press the mouse.
03:03.01 bjorkBSD eg: vi's modes, brlcad?
03:03.45 IriX64 system modal = nightmare.
03:03.59 fenn would you consider qcad's switching to the selection mode toolbar when you need to pick a point == a modality?
03:05.03 IriX64 fenn... qcad=?
03:05.11 fenn a 2d drafting program
03:05.17 IriX64 ty
03:05.17 bjorkBSD what about xfig's interface?
03:05.59 brlcad fenn: modalities in general change the behavior of a users interaction devices (e.g. a mouse) without direct feedback or on-going active request of that change
03:06.40 brlcad vi is a pretty extreme example where modalities done through and through can be efficient though making for a steep and opaque interface
03:07.10 fenn i've never learned how to use vi
03:07.17 bjorkBSD oh it's awesome!
03:07.19 fenn :q!
03:07.23 bjorkBSD tsk tsk :P
03:07.38 brlcad fenn: a selection mode toolbar isn't a modality in the classical sense since you are given active visual feedback through a change in your cursor device
03:07.39 bjorkBSD it's really neat. and ed is neater.
03:08.05 IriX64 so is edlin
03:08.08 IriX64 :)
03:08.21 IriX64 +e
03:08.29 brlcad the main downside of modalities isn't the mode itself but the potential and frequency of mode errors when you attempt operations outside that mode that could otherwise be expected
03:09.53 bjorkBSD edlin? it's a poor copy of ed!
03:10.05 bjorkBSD that's where the beep comes in.
03:10.08 IriX64 Mr Ed?
03:10.18 bjorkBSD or in ed's case, the almighty '?'
03:10.24 brlcad example modality error might be something like being in insert mode in vi, and attempting to delete a character while inserting by hitting the backspace key
03:10.46 IriX64 have you never seen mred?
03:10.55 IriX64 os/2 programmers editor.
03:11.25 bjorkBSD is it like ed?
03:11.53 IriX64 its beautiful, a graphical programmers editor doing just about anything you want.
03:12.06 IriX64 too bad he never ported it to windows.
03:12.11 brlcad the user must consciously change their locus of attention away from their desired task/operation (modifying some text in an editor) and consider the mode they are in while performing operations, with some modes being worse than others especially when you stop talking about editors and move towards gui modes
03:13.20 IriX64 if your curious check http://hobbes.nmsu.edu
03:14.00 brlcad if you're really interested, there are very compelling examples and discussion in "The Humane Interface" by Jef Raskin. good real world examples, academic research, and mathematical foundations of interface efficiency explained
03:14.15 fenn thanks for the reference
03:14.16 brlcad among a couple other books that are reference in raskin's book
03:14.17 bjorkBSD i've got the humane interface.
03:14.25 brlcad it's a quick read
03:14.38 bjorkBSD brlcad, have you ever used plan9?
03:14.50 fenn from OUTER SPACE
03:14.53 brlcad no, but i'm interested
03:15.39 bjorkBSD the main text editor on there's pretty cool.
03:15.44 brlcad raskin's ideas on a zoomable interface are some of the most interesting (and radical)
03:15.46 bjorkBSD it's called acme.
03:16.46 fenn i like using the scroll wheel for zooming
03:17.27 bjorkBSD i like the scroll wheel.
03:17.31 bjorkBSD pretty damned cool toy.
03:17.45 fenn there is definitely something to be said for auto-zoom to a particular object
03:17.47 bjorkBSD in rio, i use it for switching from screen to screen.
03:18.08 fenn (in addition to manual scrolling)
03:21.52 bjorkBSD hmmm.
03:21.54 fenn ah nice they actually have that book at my library
03:22.08 bjorkBSD hooray! the damned thing works now.
03:22.22 bjorkBSD there must be something wrong with pkg_add indeed.
03:22.36 IriX64 compilation time?
03:22.59 IriX64 don't tell ``Erik i asked ;)
03:24.47 bjorkBSD i have no idea.
03:24.51 bjorkBSD i was multitasking :D
03:25.04 bjorkBSD see, i use this new fangled unix thing...
03:25.06 IriX64 *read the summary.
03:25.42 IriX64 nfix eh :P
03:25.56 bjorkBSD ah it'd scrolled off.
03:25.59 bjorkBSD but here you go.
03:26.03 bjorkBSD Elapsed installation time: 4 minutes, 24 seconds
03:26.03 bjorkBSD Elapsed time since configuration: 2 hours, 7 minutes, 40 seconds
03:26.24 IriX64 urf a 286 :)
03:27.01 IriX64 i'm on my second run.
03:27.29 bjorkBSD second run of what?
03:27.32 IriX64 now go to modes->multi-pane and tell me what you see.
03:28.00 IriX64 compilation of course.
03:28.16 bjorkBSD second run? is this a sport for you? :))
03:28.31 IriX64 whats 18.2?
03:28.32 bjorkBSD multipanes.
03:28.39 bjorkBSD 4
03:28.55 IriX64 it let you do that without loading a database?
03:29.05 IriX64 urrrfffff
03:29.17 IriX64 thats a good bug ill leave it in.
03:30.40 IriX64 + <------ use your imagination as to what that represents.
03:30.54 IriX64 + = multipane
03:31.08 IriX64 ur,lr.ul,ll
03:31.36 IriX64 .=,
03:32.37 bjorkBSD what on earth?
03:32.47 bjorkBSD which database?
03:32.50 bjorkBSD it just worked
03:33.06 IriX64 load havoc.g
03:33.55 IriX64 brlcad: do i have a bug i can't find or is there something wrong when trying to do an e on terra contents?
03:34.05 IriX64 terra.g
03:34.56 IriX64 should be a way to check databases for integrity, sticky note applied.
03:35.04 bjorkBSD oh!
03:35.06 bjorkBSD i see now.
03:35.32 bjorkBSD '+' didn't work.
03:37.42 IriX64 which + key did you use they do different things :P
03:40.18 IriX64 say bjorkBSD does an upside down flag mean anything?
03:40.34 bjorkBSD hmm. not sure. but i thought it did.
03:40.45 bjorkBSD i know a flag flying at half mast means there's been a death.
03:40.55 IriX64 specialy on site.
03:41.12 IriX64 you type fast.
03:41.31 IriX64 :)
03:41.43 fenn raskin's zooming UI reminds me of the jurassic park interface
03:43.26 bjorkBSD that one's from irix, actually fenn.
03:43.39 fenn i know, i have the linux version right here :)
03:43.40 bjorkBSD but his zooming interface is different.
03:43.47 bjorkBSD the linux version?! whoa where?
03:45.32 bjorkBSD hmm. blender and brl-CAD. no overlaps right?
03:46.10 fenn bjorkBSD: http://fsv.sourceforge.net/
03:46.11 brlcad no, there are some .. just not in the fundamental criteria
03:46.43 brlcad about as much overlap as unigraphics overlaps with maya
03:47.48 brlcad fenn: raskin's book better talks about his ideas than his project that he started before his passing does imho
03:48.56 brlcad though the project was the beginning of an attempt to put one of the more radical ideas into practice, and has kicked off as a project on it's own
03:49.01 brlcad son's leading it iirc
03:51.06 IriX64 $ ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file pointer, file g_dsp.c, line 3135
03:51.12 IriX64 ?????
03:51.33 IriX64 can't find this, only happens on terra.g
03:51.48 IriX64 get mapped file opne failed at load time.
03:51.53 IriX64 open too.
03:52.49 bjorkBSD i don't get that.
03:52.55 bjorkBSD do you open it from the shell?
03:52.57 IriX64 on terra?
03:53.07 IriX64 from the gui.
03:54.01 bjorkBSD hmm should i do it from there?
03:54.06 bjorkBSD i did it from the shell.
03:55.08 IriX64 10 mapped file open failed messages on mged window, and if i try to e terra.n_sm it bombs.
03:56.32 IriX64 havoc on the other hand displays beautifully.
03:58.51 IriX64 Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
03:58.51 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
03:58.51 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
03:58.51 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
03:58.51 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
03:59.25 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:01.02 bjorkBSD 10.0?
04:01.08 bjorkBSD i thought it was on 7.8.2?
04:01.35 IriX64 i don't release this stuff thats for my own use.
04:01.51 IriX64 stuff you want is on sourceforge.
04:02.15 IriX64 Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
04:02.15 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
04:02.16 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
04:02.16 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
04:02.16 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
04:02.25 IriX64 bah
04:02.34 IriX64 paste errrrffff.
04:04.07 brlcad you're good at that
04:04.26 IriX64 king of oop ill have you know :P
04:07.23 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 6.469 sec, elapsed = 180.507 sec
04:07.25 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
04:07.27 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
04:07.29 IriX64 Additional mem=1507328., #malloc=891, #free=710, #realloc=31 (181 retained)
04:07.31 IriX64 3457429 solid/ray intersections: 772185 hits + 2685244 miss
04:07.33 IriX64 pruned 22.3%: 55 model RPP, 17251462 dups skipped, 5048503 solid RPP
04:07.35 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 6.47 sec = 73597.16 pixels/sec
04:07.37 IriX64 Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/sec (RTFM)
04:07.39 IriX64 Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/CPU_sec
04:07.41 IriX64 Frame 0: 502887 rays in 180.51 sec = 2785.97 rays/sec (wallclock)
04:07.43 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
04:09.42 IriX64 farg it need nicotine bbiab.
04:16.34 bjorkBSD holy shit! i just made a fucking tea cup! :x
04:18.07 bjorkBSD okay! i'm gonna need a gallon of coffee.
04:27.48 *** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4302174.sympatico.ca)
04:30.47 MarioD <IriX64> 3457429 solid/ray intersections: 772185 hits + 2685244 miss
04:30.47 MarioD <IriX64> pruned 22.3%: 55 model RPP, 17251462 dups skipped, 5048503 solid RPP
04:30.47 MarioD <IriX64> Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 6.47 sec = 73597.16 pixels/sec
04:30.47 MarioD <IriX64> Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/sec (RTFM)
04:30.47 MarioD <IriX64> Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/CPU_sec
04:30.47 MarioD <IriX64> Frame 0: 502887 rays in 180.51 sec = 2785.97 rays/sec (wallclock)
04:30.49 MarioD <IriX64> Raytrace complete.
04:31.02 MarioD ahhh
04:31.21 MarioD ill leave on my own, sorry all
04:31.36 bjorkBSD eh? what's the hurry?
08:58.00 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
16:59.10 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
16:59.10 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
17:53.51 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
17:54.13 IriX64 reville at 13:00 hrs hooo boy.
17:55.58 IriX64 havoc woke me up saying i'm ready to be rendered :)
17:56.13 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 1.625 sec, elapsed = 9.773 sec
17:56.13 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
17:56.13 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
17:56.13 IriX64 Additional mem=1474560., #malloc=856, #free=706, #realloc=9 (150 retained)
17:56.14 IriX64 517310 solid/ray intersections: 229225 hits + 288085 miss
17:56.14 IriX64 pruned 44.3%: 376272 model RPP, 830955 dups skipped, 322967 solid RPP
17:56.16 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 1.62 sec = 292984.62 pixels/sec
17:56.18 IriX64 Frame 0: 480393 rays in 1.62 sec = 295626.46 rays/sec (RTFM)
17:56.20 IriX64 Frame 0: 480393 rays in 1.62 sec = 295626.46 rays/CPU_sec
17:56.22 IriX64 Frame 0: 480393 rays in 9.77 sec = 49155.12 rays/sec (wallclock)
17:56.24 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
17:57.21 IriX64 mged> ``Erik, can't touce your time tho :(
17:57.34 IriX64 err -mged
17:57.53 IriX64 touch too sigh.
17:59.07 IriX64 pick a database we'll compare notes.
18:03.09 IriX64 Low overhead scanline-per-CPU buffering
18:03.10 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 3.734 sec, elapsed = 68.948 sec
18:03.10 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:03.10 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:03.10 IriX64 Additional mem=1495040., #malloc=859, #free=706, #realloc=13 (153 retained)
18:03.10 IriX64 949505 solid/ray intersections: 264717 hits + 684788 miss
18:03.12 IriX64 pruned 27.9%: 251771 model RPP, 3046044 dups skipped, 765668 solid RPP
18:03.14 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 3.73 sec = 127504.02 pixels/sec
18:03.16 IriX64 Frame 0: 481160 rays in 3.73 sec = 128859.13 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:03.19 IriX64 Frame 0: 481160 rays in 3.73 sec = 128859.13 rays/CPU_sec
18:03.20 IriX64 Frame 0: 481160 rays in 68.95 sec = 6978.59 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:03.22 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
18:03.27 IriX64 wonder how much of this you'll tolerate :)
18:04.34 IriX64 ill stop now it's just that im so excited.
18:05.11 IriX64 bjorkBSD how's your effort coming along?
18:07.04 IriX64 come... it's real, you pick the database file ill post the shot times.
18:07.36 IriX64 except for terra.g im still trying to figure that one out.
18:09.05 IriX64 Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
18:09.06 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
18:09.06 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.06 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.06 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
18:09.06 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.08 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.10 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Numerical Computation Library
18:09.12 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.14 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.16 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Utility Library
18:09.18 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.20 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:10.58 IriX64 WARNING: Compile-time debugging is enabled and may limit performance
18:12.17 IriX64 may I share my effort?
18:13.27 IriX64 ill try to ftp it to ftp://ftp.brlcad.org again.
18:15.40 IriX64 keeps aborting blah.
18:19.18 IriX64 trying again.
18:27.08 IriX64 mirrored floors? :)
18:31.17 IriX64 not bad for a 2.4ghz cpu.
18:34.34 IriX64 a 6hr xfer, can you wait orshould i abort it?
19:32.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: make linux less unhappy, setlinebuf() apparently returns void on linux so prefer to use setvbuf() when available so we can catch any error
19:33.14 brlcad IriX64: just what ARE you doing...
19:33.34 brlcad really is no need to keep pasting that much stuff... :)
19:34.32 brlcad the rtfm line is the main useful one, though your wallclock time is incredibly skewed..
19:36.20 brlcad it shouldn't be that far off of the rtfm count, implies something else is seriously taking up time on your system ..
19:48.41 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-1.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:49.11 bjorkBSD IriX64, i'm gonna do the teacup again, this time i'll watch what happens carefully.
19:49.30 bjorkBSD brb
19:50.02 clock_ brlcad: surfboard rulez!
19:51.52 *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
19:51.53 brlcad ok
19:55.25 IriX64 thanks brlcad i'll bring up task manager and check it ;)
19:55.56 IriX64 teacup which database is it?
19:56.10 IriX64 ah the tutorial i c.
19:56.36 bjorkBSD yeah.
19:56.39 IriX64 brlcad's being polite, read screwed for scewed :)
19:56.52 bjorkBSD IriX64, what are you doing?
19:56.59 bjorkBSD i keep seeing brlcad 10.0.0
19:57.21 IriX64 told you thats for my benifit.
19:58.49 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
19:58.53 bjorkBSD c'mon! fess up. i seem to be on version 7.
19:59.53 IriX64 as long as i don't spread this stuff around i can play with it to my hearts content, im just playing with the version number to test something else bjorkBSD.
20:00.23 IriX64 and you don't know what version you are on? :)
20:10.23 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 rays in 0.53 sec = 896610.17 rays/sec (RTFM)
20:10.38 IriX64 Fthis bldg391 on v9.0.4 brlcad.
20:10.57 IriX64 default scale.
20:11.23 bjorkBSD oh i see. are you a brl developer?
20:11.38 bjorkBSD i'm on 7.8.2
20:12.08 IriX64 why did you guys hard code the resources directories man? (duh goof thats the way it evolved)
20:12.16 IriX64 :)
20:12.50 IriX64 no bjorkBSD i am not a devloper more of a lone wolf.
20:13.18 IriX64 ooooowwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooo :) (lunch)
20:13.35 bjorkBSD i see.
20:13.42 bjorkBSD doesn't brl remind you of logo?
20:13.46 IriX64 truly?
20:15.41 bjorkBSD it's an ancient language.
20:15.53 IriX64 should tie it to --prefix the resources directories i mean.
20:17.30 IriX64 computer language?
20:18.33 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 9.0.4 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
20:18.44 IriX64 happy bjorkBSD?
20:19.40 IriX64 WARNING: Compile-time debugging is enabled and may limit performance
20:19.58 IriX64 time for a speedy gonzales build ill bbiab.
20:20.28 bjorkBSD it's coming down :D
20:21.07 IriX64 ?
20:21.15 IriX64 the cup?
20:21.50 bjorkBSD no. your version numbers.
20:22.03 IriX64 fell back a few builds.
20:22.36 bjorkBSD interesting.
20:22.40 IriX64 ./autogen.sh love it:)
20:25.37 brlcad IriX64: the resources directory isn't hard coded
20:27.41 IriX64 but it comes up and says this build expects resources to be at .....
20:29.24 IriX64 never mind... you are correct.
20:29.41 bjorkBSD IriX64, i encountered that problem because i had brlcad in my .cshrc path
20:29.48 bjorkBSD BRLCAD_ROOT ie.
20:30.15 IriX64 i encountered it because i have six directories on the go.
20:31.22 IriX64 bear in mind i dont play with path here or dirset.
20:38.25 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
20:43.36 brlcad it uses a search path ordering to find the data resources, where the BRLCAD_ROOT/DATA environment variables override if they exist
20:44.08 brlcad the windows binaries basically don't do the proper searching yet, so they report an error even though the resources are found
20:44.45 IriX64 windows binaries?
20:47.13 brlcad if you're not running windows binaries, then that error probably means something wasn't compiled/installed correctly as the output suggests
20:47.51 IriX64 truth (how do i make the pedestal of trvth in ascii) :)
20:49.21 brlcad ___
20:49.22 brlcad \
20:49.26 brlcad \/ \
20:49.43 IriX64 :)
20:49.45 brlcad oh well
20:49.57 IriX64 harder than a cow :)
20:50.20 brlcad <PROTECTED>
20:50.23 brlcad <PROTECTED>
20:50.31 brlcad there we go
20:50.40 IriX64 thats better i can stand on it.
20:50.51 IriX64 errr you can stand on it.
21:00.27 ValarQ <PROTECTED>
21:00.27 ValarQ <PROTECTED>
21:00.27 ValarQ <PROTECTED>
21:00.27 ValarQ <PROTECTED>
21:00.58 ValarQ cows sure are easier :)
21:01.04 IriX64 applause... its been years since ive seen that :)
21:01.37 IriX64 <ValarQ> ,__,
21:01.37 IriX64 <ValarQ> (oo)____
21:01.37 IriX64 <ValarQ> (__) )\
21:01.38 IriX64 <ValarQ> ||--|| *
21:01.38 IriX64 <ValarQ> cows sure are easier :)
21:01.38 IriX64 <IriX64> applause... its been years since ive seen that :)
21:01.43 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
21:02.01 ValarQ you sure like to flood this channel :P
21:02.19 IriX64 never kicks me tho i must lead a charmed life :)
21:02.51 IriX64 or the bot is someone I know.
21:03.19 ValarQ you haven't thought about switching to irssi?
21:03.34 IriX64 where do i get it?
21:03.51 brlcad yes, the pastes of what other people have already written in particular is getting annoying :P
21:03.52 ValarQ the local ports system or at http://irssi.org/
21:04.14 IriX64 ty and point taken brlcad :)
21:04.19 ValarQ irssi is clever in that it asks when pasting many lines
21:04.32 IriX64 so does mirc.
21:04.41 ValarQ never used mirc actually
21:05.19 ValarQ btw, can you run mirc on 64bit Irix? :P
21:05.27 brlcad irssi is pretty sweet
21:06.46 ValarQ i say like they do with mutt, it's the least bad client out there :)
21:09.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the sys/un.h header in order to stop using the HAVE_UNIX_DOMAIN_SOCKETS define
21:10.27 IriX64 blargh actually expects gcc doesnt honour the cc variable, be ashamed irssi :)
21:10.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: s/HAVE_UNIX_DOMAIN_SOCKETS/HAVE_SYS_UN_H/g now that there is a new check in configure.ac
21:22.59 IriX64 brb
21:23.52 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
21:24.12 IriX64 ValarQ so? :)
21:24.33 IriX64 lets tru paste :P
21:24.38 IriX64 try too.
21:25.54 IriX64 Elapsed installation time: 7 minutes, 17 seconds
21:25.55 IriX64 Elapsed time since configuration: 42 minutes, 48 seconds
21:26.05 IriX64 couldnt resist :P
21:30.13 IriX64 dunno what ails perl support tho looking for irc dir and fails *shrug*
21:33.25 IriX64 smoke break bbiab
21:35.46 bjorkBSD brb
21:52.42 IriX64 i never could draw :)
22:04.31 IriX64 brb
22:14.26 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
22:17.17 IriX64 ValorQ wheres the help screen in this thing.
22:17.29 IriX64 err ValarQ
22:17.52 ValarQ dunno
22:18.02 IriX64 thing being irssi :)
22:18.10 ValarQ try /help
22:18.27 IriX64 tried /help.
22:20.53 ValarQ http://irssi.org/documentation/manual maybe :)
22:21.23 IriX64 maybe if i talk to it :)
22:21.48 IriX64 no need im not a warrior or anything.
22:22.57 IriX64 smoke break again.
22:36.32 ``Erik heh
23:12.58 IriX64 thank you ValorQ an interesting freaking cadillac of irc clients :)
23:13.09 IriX64 err ValarQ too.
23:15.30 IriX64 ./who_am_i doesn't work ;)
23:16.08 IriX64 but this is not the channel to discuss the relative merits or lack of same in.
23:16.43 IriX64 cd /usr/brlcad/bin
23:19.12 IriX64 is sphflake the royal orb of Russia?
23:34.18 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
23:58.59 ``Erik it's just a recursive application of spheres...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060714

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060714

00:34.39 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
00:42.30 IriX64 urffff running on....
00:51.29 *** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
00:52.32 brlcad IriX64: can you code?
00:52.44 brlcad or better put, are you interested in coding?
00:52.57 IriX64 i have a little experience.
00:53.20 brlcad and by code, I mean either C/C++/Tcl or even web development
00:53.22 IriX64 let me shutdown this thing im playing with.
00:53.27 *** part/#brlcad MarioD (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
00:53.56 IriX64 i use c mixed with a little c++ know nothing about java or web html stuff.
00:54.41 IriX64 and a little asm too :)
00:55.12 IriX64 why the interest in me?
00:55.42 brlcad no rush, just wondering .. because if you can and you are interested, i'm sure there's some rather productive things you could jump into
00:56.16 IriX64 ahh the topic is for real then, if im interested in developing, i can get involved?
00:56.30 brlcad sure, anyone can get involved
00:56.50 brlcad the guidelines are pretty darn flexible
00:56.59 IriX64 ill think about it, i already have a pet project, but thanks.
00:57.08 brlcad just a thought
00:57.30 brlcad you seem to enjoy running the benchmarks.. there's several things that would be useful in that regard
00:57.42 IriX64 do a ver on me you probably already know what im doing.
00:58.11 IriX64 urrffff benchmarks, you assume much here.
00:58.37 brlcad s/benchmarks/ray-tracing/
00:58.47 IriX64 ahh
00:59.25 brlcad the brl-cad benchmark suite is based on ray-tracing as the domain metric, cpu-intensive task that exercises several core concepts
00:59.45 brlcad while being a real world app instead of just multiplying two number 50 billion times
01:00.16 brlcad that's where the rtfm number comes into play, as well as the other numbers listed
01:00.35 IriX64 theres a file transfer about to finish to your ftp.brlcad.org, called linuxbrlcad. built for a i586-unix-linux system, would appreciate feedback.
01:00.57 brlcad should be able to test that one easily enough
01:01.16 brlcad sure it's not for a cray 2 ? :)
01:01.25 IriX64 thankyou should create a diirectory call linuxbrlcad, put it anywhere.
01:01.41 brlcad what prefix did you compile it for?
01:01.43 IriX64 not unless i sent you the wrong file ;)
01:01.51 IriX64 linuxbrlcad
01:02.01 brlcad you did --prefix=linuxbrlcad ?
01:02.13 IriX64 =/usr/linuxbrlcad
01:02.17 brlcad ahh
01:03.02 brlcad then the compile-time root is /usr/linuxbrlcad, BRLCAD_ROOT has to be set if it's relocated anywhere else
01:03.21 IriX64 why do you throttle your server, busy system?
01:03.38 IriX64 well do it :)
01:03.41 brlcad which server? ftp?
01:03.44 IriX64 yes
01:03.50 brlcad it's not throttled
01:04.00 IriX64 15kbps
01:04.11 brlcad nor in the least bit busy network-wise
01:04.30 IriX64 file xfer finished, let me know.
01:04.44 fenn so i spent 5 or 6 hours looking around at various GUI and scenegraph libraries last night
01:04.56 fenn and didnt find any i liked :(
01:05.12 IriX64 was about to ask you and came up with?
01:05.33 IriX64 :)
01:06.13 brlcad fenn: =)
01:06.31 fenn i guess i dont know whether to try to use brl-cad's built-in picking and display algorithms or ...
01:06.51 IriX64 begs the question whats scenegraph? :)
01:06.59 brlcad it's an epidemic problem.. nothing is really great at anything and every one of them are generally seriously lacking in some regard
01:07.17 fenn a data structure used to render stuff on the screen quickly
01:07.26 fenn you can prune off branches that aren't visible for instance
01:07.37 fenn but brlcad sorta has something like that already
01:07.51 IriX64 i like your shift grips scaling manner.
01:07.58 IriX64 so easy
01:08.18 IriX64 that help button saved me :)
01:08.58 fenn brlcad: can i assume that 3 button mice (or at least 2 buttons) are available on all platforms?
01:09.01 brlcad fenn: even brl-cad's picking and display code has it's share of warts and deficiencies to say the least
01:09.48 IriX64 fenn put it in (ducking and running)
01:09.52 brlcad brl-cad's concept of a display manager is a good one, very nice for making relatively no assumptions about a display.. but it's feature-lacking in terms of flexibility of a gui
01:09.53 fenn i think i want to copy a large part of blender's UI
01:10.23 IriX64 hey you dont like it make it better.
01:10.27 brlcad blender's ui layer is actually a fairly self-contained chunk of code in a library iirc
01:11.19 IriX64 smoke break.
01:12.34 brlcad for scenegraph management, there's one project that really has a lot of momentum going -- openscenegraph
01:12.53 brlcad context and gui/widget management, however, is another story
01:12.56 fenn yeah that and ogre3d
01:13.06 fenn they're both humongous monsters though
01:13.17 brlcad ogre's nice.. but it has a series of other issues
01:14.36 brlcad i have a list of notes somewhere when I was doing extensive evaluation of a lot of packages several months back.. should put it up on a wiki or something
01:15.17 brlcad one thing I did like from ogre was cegui
01:15.32 fenn hehe me too
01:15.38 brlcad that eddie has got a crazy library going there
01:17.32 brlcad ogre's performance is less than optimal by quite a bit, their design is pretty clean/nice, platform support is unfortunately limited from what we're used to needing, license is good
01:18.11 fenn how is it less than optimal?
01:19.32 brlcad they're working on mild game environments, relatively optimized low polygon counts, and getting "middle" okay framerates
01:20.14 brlcad add in something nice and complex like you'd often have on a CAD part and it goes through the floor, had some little test programs, test models
01:20.37 fenn hm
01:20.38 brlcad i'm sure it's probably something fixable, and hardware will of course pick up.. that wasn't a critical concern, just noteworthy
01:21.00 brlcad platform support was more disconcerting actually
01:21.05 fenn and you didnt have this problem with openscenegraph?
01:22.45 brlcad yeah, performance was considerably better albeit without some of the bells and whistles ogre can do. osg doesn't have the platform problems iirc too or very many external dependencies
01:23.22 brlcad biggest issue that comes to mind sans notes is that they didn't have as clean an api, and they were "bigger" and slightly more complex
01:23.29 fenn thing is we don't need 90% of the bells 'n whistles ogre can do
01:23.31 brlcad not nearly as complex a beast as crystalspace
01:23.35 brlcad yep
01:24.03 brlcad ogre is primarily a rendering engine according to the devs I spoke with, not even a gaming engine first
01:24.16 fenn seems like libraries should post a list of dependencies on the front page
01:25.45 brlcad they really should, i had to really dig on some projects
01:25.59 brlcad looking into things like their debian spec sheet to find the list
01:26.10 fenn yikes
01:26.11 brlcad or their freebsd ports entry
01:26.40 brlcad don't recall ogre's deps being bad
01:26.53 brlcad it did end up in my top 5
01:27.30 ``Erik *yawn*
01:27.50 ``Erik ewie
01:29.21 ``Erik I think I forgot to commit before I left today
01:55.28 IriX64 green text on a black background ... nice
01:57.10 IriX64 hahaha mircdcc?
01:59.00 IriX64 might become my new favorite client.
01:59.59 brlcad which is that?
02:00.08 IriX64 irssi
02:00.14 brlcad ahh, good good
02:00.26 IriX64 nice client.
02:00.34 brlcad very nice
02:00.49 IriX64 well behaved lots of toys etc. :)
02:01.17 IriX64 rehash? this thing has a bot?
02:02.52 IriX64 in a galaxy far far away, .... client wars :)
02:03.40 IriX64 well theres a code generator calling me, ill go into lurk mode.
02:39.26 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:39.26 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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03:25.19 fenn surf's up dude.. ride the netsplit like you just don't care
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05:02.05 IriX64_ erf
05:02.19 IriX64_ is nickserv down?
07:01.01 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-34.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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15:03.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/ (db5.h raytrace.h rtgeom.h): claiming a number for metaballs
15:03.42 clock_ erik always does O_o
15:03.48 ``Erik bull fuckin shit
15:03.49 ``Erik o.O
15:03.54 clock_ OK o.O
15:03.56 ``Erik see, a dot, not an underscore
15:03.59 ``Erik O.o
15:04.16 clock_ what does it actually mean?
15:04.28 ``Erik either a cocked eyebrow, or a 'bill the cat' look
15:05.21 ``Erik http://www.chimique.usherbrooke.ca/crtp/profs/Bill.jpg
15:06.16 clock_ funny
15:06.31 clock_ what does cocked eyebrow mean?
15:07.13 ``Erik http://publish.uwo.ca/~jpalmer/images/cocked%20eyebrow.jpg
15:07.25 ``Erik g00gle r0x0rz
15:07.45 clock_ yes I know what cocked eyebrow looks like but what does it mean?
15:08.08 ``Erik I d'no *shrug* :D
15:08.12 ``Erik I just like makin' faces
15:08.31 clock_ OK that's a reasonable explanation :)
15:10.26 clock_ ``Erik: are you also a surfer like brlcad>?
15:11.19 ``Erik nyet
15:11.47 ``Erik <-- couch potato
15:13.21 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca)
15:18.43 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca)
15:19.08 IriX64 ermf the cygwin effort aborts when you press control c to abort a paste :)
15:19.46 ``Erik erm, ^c is SIGTERM
15:20.06 IriX64 why doesnt it die in the unix environment then.
15:20.27 ``Erik cuz it runs detached? *shrug*
15:20.58 IriX64 bash: IriX64@hagars-py0qj2wb: command not found
15:21.27 IriX64 here it did not even ask for confirmation.
15:24.20 IriX64 $ usage: autossh [-M monitor_port] [-f] [SSH_OPTIONS]
15:24.30 IriX64 what gives here?
15:24.57 IriX64 in the win environment it asks for confirmation on a paste, here nada.
15:25.09 clock_ ``Erik: do you work at the same place as brlcad?
15:25.51 IriX64 perhaps i should take this to #irssi :)
15:26.04 ``Erik same building, yeah
15:30.52 clock_ ``Erik: yes cracks will develop in the CPUs
15:32.02 ``Erik I've seen issues with brlcad's build system going TOO parallel...
15:34.17 clock_ then aren't the dependencies badly written?
15:39.37 brlcad more than likely a make race-condition bug
15:40.52 ``Erik or I did something stupid or had an nfs blowout
15:41.05 ``Erik sean, do you review all the commits?
15:41.10 brlcad yeah
15:41.26 ``Erik ok, so if I oops, you'll let me know
15:41.36 brlcad careful on those MAX id defines.. one of them is the max define for the primitive lookup table
15:41.57 ``Erik hm, both were 36, and I bumped 'em both...
15:41.59 brlcad which is an array.. and if you don't add the table entry, it's going to segfault
15:42.10 ``Erik librt/table.c ?
15:42.18 brlcad yeah
15:42.50 ``Erik hm
15:42.57 ``Erik so I should throw a skeleton in quick
15:43.24 brlcad i'm rather concerned about a comment I left in..
15:43.27 brlcad "Add a new primitive id above here (this is will break v5 format)"
15:44.46 brlcad i don't recall that being the case, have to think about it some more and test it
15:45.00 *** join/#brlcad AbsTradELic (n=vldmr@201.19.91.23)
15:45.07 brlcad but yeah, should throw in a skeleton table entry, even if they're all nul
15:52.34 ``Erik doink
15:52.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_metaball.c Makefile.am table.c): initial metaball support (skeletal)
15:53.45 clock_ g_meatball.c ;-)
15:53.59 ``Erik yup, meatballs
15:54.11 ``Erik on top of spaghetti... all covered with cheese...
15:58.34 ``Erik damnit, now I'm hungry
15:58.40 ``Erik I want swedish meatballs... :(
15:59.14 ``Erik if vegetarians only eat vegetables, what's a humanitarian eat?
16:00.18 clock_ only humans
16:00.19 ValarQ i'm a bit of a second grade vegetarian, i only eat vegetarians
16:00.30 clock_ vegetarianarian
16:00.35 ValarQ :)
16:01.15 clock_ o.O strikes again
16:01.20 ``Erik valarq: you don't eat pig or fish?
16:01.35 clock_ meatarian is who doesn't eats vegetables only meat
16:01.52 ValarQ ``Erik: only pigs and fish that eat vegetables
16:02.19 clock_ better to figure out a whole family tree of the food
16:02.27 ``Erik how do you know?
16:02.33 clock_ what if the vegetables grow on a cemetery?
16:02.35 ValarQ i don't
16:02.45 clock_ they grow up from meat
16:03.00 clock_ cemetarian - ets only zombies :)
16:03.01 ValarQ isn't it ok to wrongly assume things? :o)
16:03.21 ``Erik opposed to a cementarian?
16:03.28 clock_ Hi. I am 103 years old so I am a so called cemetarian :)
16:03.47 ``Erik mmm, cement, yummy
16:06.31 ``Erik bitch
16:06.42 brlcad heh
16:06.49 ``Erik I think I'm skipping lunch today
16:07.02 brlcad have to go tag/title the blue whale
16:07.08 clock_ there is some saying something like that if someone is cute that he's like to be eaten or something like that
16:07.10 ``Erik if I go to duclaws, I'll wanna stop by home and take my growlers...
16:07.11 clock_ how is it exactly?
16:07.31 brlcad never heard that saying
16:07.31 ``Erik "so cute you could just eat him up?" said by ancient blue-haired women?
16:07.40 brlcad ahh
16:07.49 clock_ only ancient blue-haired women say that?
16:08.00 brlcad "he's so cute, I could just eat him [alive]"
16:08.12 ``Erik when they bust out a knife and fork, RUN
16:09.27 ``Erik you only eat surfers?
16:09.29 clock_ when I was a kid I realized that if you stick a magnet into sand, it will pull out little iron grains out.
16:09.45 clock_ There is so little iron grains in the sand that I don't see them and think there are actually no iron grains
16:10.05 ValarQ http://arda.no-ip.org/blocket_340.jpg
16:10.10 ValarQ there's one :)
16:10.15 clock_ ``Erik: do you know any other class of cute boys?
16:11.55 ``Erik <-- doesn't look for cute boys, ain't that way, sorry
16:13.55 brlcad mm.. surfer instructor girl.. I would have probably enjoyed that
16:14.14 clock_ brlcad: should I inform her?
16:14.19 clock_ brlcad: she looks cute
16:14.30 ``Erik heh, hell of a drive, though...
16:14.36 brlcad is she within driving distance? :)
16:14.45 clock_ brlcad: depends on how strong is your sexual drive
16:15.09 brlcad heh
16:15.30 clock_ brlcad: I guess you must be doing the lifting also for a similar purpose, don't you? :)
16:16.23 ``Erik heh, do you lift to get the sort of gay boys that clock likes, dude?
16:16.25 ``Erik :>
16:16.57 clock_ ``Erik: in brlcad case it will probably translate to girls
16:17.18 ``Erik hehehe I d'no, he dresses too snappy... I'm kinda wondering
16:17.27 ``Erik *duck* :D
16:17.33 clock_ snappy means what? smart?
16:18.06 ValarQ heh
16:20.59 ``Erik hrmph, none of my graphics books talk about metaballs
16:21.25 AbsTradELic hi
16:22.02 clock_ AbsTradELic: hi your name sounds Czech
16:22.03 brlcad jeans and a clean shirt is snappy? heh
16:23.33 AbsTradELic ok... hi all !
16:23.50 AbsTradELic its my first time become here
16:24.01 AbsTradELic I found the project on web
16:24.25 AbsTradELic and found refers to this irc channel
16:24.54 AbsTradELic I have difficulties with english dialet, but I know the sufficient to understand
16:25.14 ``Erik yeah, you and your CLEAN tshirts, wtf
16:25.25 clock_ dialect, a nice name for a world language :)
16:25.51 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca)
16:26.29 IriX64 bugs in x11 (moved to ultra mega lightyears backburner) :)
16:26.32 brlcad AbsTradELic: howdy, and yes sufficient to understand
16:26.59 clock_ AbsTradELic: your english is actually quite good
16:27.13 AbsTradELic tnk u
16:27.30 AbsTradELic my native language is portuguese
16:27.38 AbsTradELic and I live in brazil
16:27.46 brlcad AbsTradELic: aunque parece que eres de brazil, yo entiendo espanol si te conviene
16:28.10 AbsTradELic brlcad: english is better to me
16:28.16 brlcad for me to ;)
16:28.31 ``Erik yo quiero taco bell, nacho grande burrito supreme spaghetti
16:28.43 AbsTradELic eeheeehee
16:28.46 brlcad mm.. spagetti sounds good
16:28.57 IriX64 watch it ``Erik that last word is me ;)
16:28.58 clock_ supreme spaghetti even better
16:29.03 ``Erik "damnit, beavis, that's not even spanish! go to the principals office!"
16:29.29 brlcad IriX64: you're a noodle?
16:29.38 brlcad covered in sauce?
16:29.40 IriX64 yeah and a meatball :)
16:29.43 clock_ AbsTradELic: have you had Czech Ancestors so your name is Vladimir?
16:29.57 clock_ meatball in graphic book. Too graphic book.
16:29.58 AbsTradELic nops
16:30.04 clock_ AbsTradELic: then Russian?
16:30.14 IriX64 ahh come its all light teasing.
16:30.26 brlcad light seasoning?
16:30.35 ``Erik don't make him go all impaler on your ass, clock :)
16:30.46 clock_ ``Erik: what does impaler mean?
16:30.52 IriX64 heh
16:30.56 ``Erik um, 'vlad the impaler'?
16:31.02 AbsTradELic I really dont understand why my dad put this name in me
16:31.08 IriX64 val the stick
16:31.20 IriX64 sos the rope.
16:31.21 clock_ AbsTradELic: but it sounds really cool
16:31.33 clock_ Vladimir de Almeida
16:32.00 ``Erik basarab?
16:32.01 AbsTradELic Vladimir de Almeida Fernandes
16:32.06 clock_ even better
16:32.15 IriX64 ValarQ what are you running your irssi if i may ask?
16:32.22 IriX64 on i mean.
16:32.42 clock_ AbsTradELic: and do you have some problem with brlcad?
16:32.42 brlcad any relation to Laurindo Almeida (famous classic guitarist)?
16:33.05 IriX64 os?
16:33.06 brlcad heh, bombarded with personal questions and the guy just wants to talk about cad :)
16:33.36 clock_ AbsTradELic: are you gay?
16:33.44 AbsTradELic I have downloaded the brlcad and uncompress it into my usr/local/src
16:33.45 IriX64 p?=sop :)
16:34.12 brlcad clock_: not exactly appropriate to toss sexuality into the mix out of the blue :P
16:34.16 AbsTradELic its a compiled to ia32
16:34.34 IriX64 ia32=?
16:34.37 clock_ brlcad: it's harmless. A heterosexual says "no" and a homosexual sends a quesry
16:34.39 clock_ query
16:34.46 ``Erik ia32 is intel arch 32... pentiums, etc...
16:34.53 IriX64 ty
16:34.56 brlcad perhaps harmless, still inappropriate in that manner for here
16:35.15 IriX64 won't canonicalize ``Erik :)
16:35.17 ``Erik put your willy away, clock, we got tech talk goin'... :)
16:35.36 clock_ brlcad: yes but if you say a remark about girls, it's also sexuality (a majority one)
16:35.42 AbsTradELic allright here ?
16:35.47 clock_ brlcad: so is talking about girls forbidden here?
16:35.52 brlcad AbsTradELic: if you downloaded a binary distribution of brl-cad, it expects to be installed into /usr/brlcad
16:36.11 AbsTradELic I'll move it
16:36.11 brlcad clock_: i didn't say talking about it is forbidden.. bringing it up out of the blue can be
16:36.17 clock_ ``Erik: homosexuality is not only about willy. It's about emotions, too. This one was about sexuality, and not mine :)
16:36.34 clock_ brlcad: OK if bringing girls out of the blue is not appropriate, then I admmit my fault.
16:37.24 brlcad clock_: i mean we've clearly talked about both in the past, usually a gradual change of topic .. that however just wasn't gradual, especially to a new channel "visitor"
16:37.28 ``Erik AbsTradELic: did you make sure to get the binaries for the right operating systme, aw well? FreeBSD binaries will not run on Linux... etc...
16:37.42 ``Erik s/aw/as/
16:37.50 brlcad if it had been a girl and ``Erik started hitting on her asking age etc, it would have been just as inappropriate imho
16:38.03 ``Erik !~#!~@ A/S/L~!!!!
16:38.05 brlcad not that he does that :)
16:38.05 ``Erik *duck*
16:38.08 brlcad heh
16:38.23 AbsTradELic ``Erik: ;)
16:38.26 IriX64 well you are entitled to an opion no matter how wrong it may be brlcad :)
16:38.40 clock_ brlcad: or download the source. It compiles fine. The README says how to compile but I guess it's just ./configure && make && make install
16:38.47 clock_ then it tells you to put some path into the PATH
16:38.58 clock_ so you do it and then run "mged" and it will start up
16:39.34 brlcad IriX64: right or wrong, my opinion prevails in this particular forum
16:39.39 clock_ AbsTradELic: you can put the path into /etc/profile, /etc/env.d or ~/.profile, ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bashrc (depends on operating system and how it's set up)
16:39.47 IriX64 mea cupa :)
16:39.56 AbsTradELic ``Erik: linux
16:40.03 AbsTradELic its allright here
16:40.57 clock_ AbsTradELic: which one? Gentoo? Debian?
16:41.09 AbsTradELic slackware
16:41.29 clock_ AbsTradELic: do you know where to put the BRLCAD_PATH or how it's called?
16:41.38 brlcad i have several girl friends i know on irc that get "attacked" when they go into channels, quite something I won't tolerate regardless of the gender .. the conversation can always be taken private or to a different channel ;)
16:42.28 AbsTradELic can I put it on /etc/rc.d/rc.loal
16:42.30 AbsTradELic ?
16:42.30 clock_ brlcad: yes but my question is basically a query into the replicator configuration register - the same sort as "are you a girl or a boy"?
16:42.45 AbsTradELic *rc.local
16:42.59 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
16:43.07 clock_ AbsTradELic: yes that should work. Put it there, reboot and see if PATH is ammended.
16:43.13 clock_ Otherwise put it into your /home/user/.profile
16:43.15 brlcad DTRemenak: are you a girl or a boy
16:43.31 brlcad clock_: see that's a wierd thing to ask out of the blue too ;)
16:43.33 clock_ Try to log into a console and then X Window System. It should be in both. If it isn't you have to tamper with the files until it is
16:43.38 AbsTradELic plz, wait me to fine adjusts
16:43.48 brlcad just happens that I sort of know DTRemenak fortunately, so it's all in good fun
16:44.18 DTRemenak brlcad: ...
16:44.23 brlcad heh
16:44.27 clock_ DTRemenak: your name sounds Czech
16:44.37 DTRemenak clock_: close...anglicized polish
16:45.22 clock_ brlcad: OK if asking about boy and girl is weird, then fully accept. Mea culpa.
16:45.45 clock_ AbsTrAWAY: sorry if my question caused you a mental block or something like that
16:46.01 ValarQ IriX64: i run irssi on my computer
16:46.48 ValarQ IriX64: AMD64 X2 with Gentoo GNU/Linux
16:47.05 brlcad DTRemenak: heh, a_delusion comes to mind for some reason
16:47.22 IriX64 does it ask for confirm on paste attempt ValarQ?
16:47.38 DTRemenak heh
16:47.46 brlcad clock_: no big deal
16:48.11 clock_ brlcad: if I behave this way, people get pissed. If I don't, I can miss some boy
16:48.46 brlcad clock_: maybe get to know them first, just a little more slowly ;)
16:48.57 IriX64 arithimetic-shift-left-shift-right 102 why ``Erik?
16:49.05 clock_ For a gay gue probably even a worse nightmare than being buried alive :)
16:49.19 ``Erik book two of the brlcad manual, 'introduction to mged'
16:49.50 clock_ brlcad: yes I could lose them because of recoil, that makes sense
16:49.55 ValarQ IriX64: yeah, i don't know how it works thought
16:50.59 IriX64 ValarQ: thanks. :( mine no longer does.
16:51.26 IriX64 ahhh well call it a feature, no nag :)
16:51.34 ValarQ IriX64: it might depend on the terminal used
16:51.36 clock_ brlcad: AbsTrAWAY basically needs to install either binary or source, and then set the PATH, is it right?
16:51.55 IriX64 bash is a terminal ;)
16:52.05 ValarQ IriX64: no, it isn't
16:52.07 ``Erik bash is a shell, a terminal is a terminal
16:52.25 IriX64 still talks to the shell.
16:52.46 ValarQ IriX64: the apps doesn't
16:52.54 IriX64 so where does the terminal beging and the shell end :)
16:53.04 IriX64 begin
16:53.09 AbsTradELic ok... PATH environment adjusted
16:53.22 AbsTradELic /usr/brlcad/bin
16:53.25 AbsTradELic added
16:53.27 clock_ AbsTradELic: cool try to type mged do some windows pop up?
16:53.41 IriX64 you could just have changed dir to /usr/brlcad/bin and done a ./mged
16:53.42 ValarQ IriX64: a shell only interprets commands
16:53.50 clock_ AbsTradELic: 2 windows should pop up
16:54.12 brlcad clock_: technically don't need to set PATH either, but then you have to type /usr/brlcad/bin/mged instead of just mged
16:54.29 clock_ brlcad: does it find it's own files then?
16:54.29 brlcad yes
16:54.31 IriX64 ValarQ: and a terminal does nothing but communicate with the shell or app.
16:54.48 ``Erik *grouse* this book does not tell me what I want to know. I must whup up on lee when he gets back for this...
16:55.03 ValarQ IriX64: quite true, but the app doesn't talk very much with the shell
16:55.07 IriX64 ``Erik, try the bibel :)
16:55.29 IriX64 ValarQ: like make ;)
16:55.35 IriX64 bible too.
16:56.33 IriX64 my vucom1 is on the fritz :)
16:57.41 AbsTradELic appear
16:58.03 AbsTradELic 2 window pop up
16:58.20 AbsTradELic command window and graphic window
17:01.52 AbsTradELic ok
17:02.08 clock_ AbsTradELic: wget http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/railing.g
17:02.11 clock_ AbsTradELic: mged railing.g
17:02.15 clock_ in mged type B railing
17:02.25 clock_ (without the word type)
17:02.57 clock_ AbsTradELic: you should see an image of some engineering crap
17:03.21 brlcad heh :)
17:03.25 AbsTradELic ok
17:03.35 AbsTradELic just a few
17:03.35 clock_ brlcad: if I type rt the whole screen blanks for a while and then it returns and nothing is raytraced
17:03.46 clock_ brlcad: I have OpenBSD 3.9
17:03.59 brlcad there are also a lot of simple example geometry databases installed in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/
17:04.19 brlcad clock_: hmm.. X11 display depth bug
17:04.28 brlcad clock_: try "rt -F/dev/Xl" instead
17:04.29 clock_ brlcad: bug of X or brlcad?
17:04.36 brlcad both
17:05.13 brlcad and that's ex-ell, not ex-one
17:05.14 clock_ brlcad: lol works
17:05.25 AbsTradELic clock_: ops, problem... I dont see nothing
17:05.40 clock_ AbsTradELic: not eve wire frame?
17:05.51 AbsTradELic nothing
17:05.53 clock_ AbsTradELic: do you have file railing.g?
17:05.54 brlcad so, something wrong with the opengl interface on your system.. it's not a new problem, saw it years ago but haven't seen it since to debug it
17:06.04 AbsTradELic clock_: yes
17:06.16 clock_ AbsTradELic: and you typed B railing in mged?
17:06.36 AbsTradELic mged railling.g
17:06.45 clock_ AbsTradELic: but in mged you have to type B railing
17:06.47 clock_ that draws the thing
17:07.02 AbsTradELic huM!
17:07.04 brlcad B is the "delete everything else and draw" command
17:07.11 brlcad e is the simple draw command
17:07.12 AbsTradELic just a few
17:07.33 brlcad there's also a draw command (equivalent to e)
17:07.46 clock_ brlcad: yes but I am a lamer so I don't know that
17:08.02 brlcad "tops" will tell you what top-level geometry are in the file hierarchy that are likely of interest
17:08.22 brlcad since brl-cad's .g files are not necessarily 1-model per file
17:08.27 AbsTradELic clock_: Now I see
17:08.31 AbsTradELic I'm seeing
17:08.34 clock_ AbsTradELic: so you have working brlcad
17:08.46 AbsTradELic clock_: ;)
17:08.51 AbsTradELic ok
17:09.00 brlcad AbsTradELic: this may be of help: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
17:10.02 clock_ brlcad: oh that's terrific who made it? He should get a Nobel Prize for a Reference Card
17:10.02 AbsTradELic ok... downloading
17:10.24 AbsTradELic download completed
17:10.40 brlcad clock_: second page, at the bottom
17:11.01 brlcad technically, back of the first page, it's meant to be printed on heavy glossy stock paper
17:11.07 brlcad double-sided
17:11.30 brlcad there's also http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Trifold_Card.pdf for folks that want to fold it up
17:11.30 ``Erik brlcad: mged interface wise, should I be looking at 'pipe'? or is there a better one to look at?
17:11.47 brlcad ``Erik: pipe's probably a good one
17:12.18 brlcad especially given it's variable arguments too
17:12.45 ``Erik that's exactly what I'm looking for... jason said bot's don't have ui interface, and sketch is horrible, so pipe is the best for that feature...
17:12.58 ``Erik so'z I'm seein' if that's right or if there's a better one :)
17:13.04 brlcad probably not
17:13.14 brlcad i mean, probably not a better one ..
17:13.26 ``Erik ok, now for the dangerous question... are there docs on pipe? :D
17:13.48 brlcad yeah, pipe is covered in the advanced tutorial (vol III iirc)
17:14.19 brlcad otherwise, rtfs ;)
17:14.26 clock_ brlcad: actually I think I already once asked about a screw, didn't I?
17:14.55 brlcad clock_: i believe you did, though the details pass me
17:15.13 clock_ brlcad: me too, unfortunately ;-)
17:15.15 brlcad i think it was a curvature on curvature problem, which isn't easily done
17:15.36 brlcad unless you mean threading on a non-tapering bolt.. that's somewhat tractable
17:15.40 clock_ you said something about half toroids or something like that
17:15.48 clock_ yes non tapering
17:16.25 brlcad yeah, pattern tool would certainly help
17:16.35 AbsTradELic to render it ?
17:16.35 brlcad a linear repeat up a cylinder
17:17.02 brlcad AbsTradELic: File->Raytrace Control Panel or simply type "rt -F/dev/Xl" in the command window
17:18.27 brlcad ``Erik: dwayne is a demigod when it comes to using pipes if you want some really useful interactive face-time
17:18.58 brlcad pretty efficient with them
17:19.04 ``Erik just need a rough idea of the interface... but if I'm stuck goin' 'huhh?', I'll wander over
17:19.54 clock_ O.o
17:19.57 brlcad i'd worry about getting the typein interface done first .. that will at least get you going
17:21.07 AbsTradELic ok
17:22.41 AbsTradELic and the project age ?
17:23.19 clock_ AbsTradELic: 25+
17:23.32 clock_ AbsTradELic: developed by US Army
17:24.01 AbsTradELic 25 years ?
17:24.09 clock_ yes
17:24.13 clock_ brlcad: how much is it actually?
17:24.19 ``Erik '79, yo
17:25.07 ``Erik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brlcad
17:25.08 AbsTradELic and the source opened ?
17:25.40 ``Erik late '04
17:27.47 brlcad project started in '79, first release was circa '83/'84
17:28.04 brlcad open-sourced on the day before christmas eve, 2004
17:28.15 clock_ brlcad: xmas gift?
17:28.27 brlcad of sorts :)
17:28.35 clock_ brlcad: that's brutal to opensource such a huge thing :)
17:29.00 brlcad it took years of finagling, meetings, discussions, legalities, technicalities
17:29.13 brlcad almost five years actually
17:29.23 clock_ brlcad: working with BRL-CAD that's a great feeling compared to all those other modeller things
17:30.03 brlcad it's a great codebase, even if the mged modeler is not so great
17:30.21 clock_ like if a surfer was given duke kahanamoku's board :)
17:30.26 brlcad oh, i'm not identified..
17:30.41 brlcad damn splits
17:31.42 AbsTradELic brlcad work fine with arquiteture projects ?
17:31.43 clock_ brlcad: big codebase that doesn't bloat the system
17:31.54 brlcad AbsTradELic: sure should
17:32.25 AbsTradELic construction architeture projects ?
17:32.37 brlcad clock_: yeah.. that's one thing, there's a definite lack of code bloat even for it's massive size .. maybe a hint of command-bloat, but there was generally a need for all of them
17:33.08 clock_ brlcad: I don't have problem with the commands
17:33.23 brlcad AbsTradELic: it has been used in several architecture projects in the past .. though one thing it does not do that's worth mentioning in advance is drafting
17:33.39 brlcad i.e. you're not going to get dimensioned blue-prints out of it - wasn't designed for that
17:33.55 brlcad clock_: have you used more than mged and rt? :)
17:33.58 brlcad and rtedge..
17:34.04 ValarQ thats the biggest drawback
17:34.36 clock_ brlcad: yes, rtweight
17:34.44 brlcad yeah, everyone sees cad and expects autocad, not realizing that's just one of about five major niche markets (although drafting is the biggest)
17:34.57 brlcad clock_: so .. only 396 to go ;)
17:35.01 ValarQ is it possible to store ortographic views in brlcad?
17:35.26 brlcad you can save/load arbitrary views using the saveview/loadview commands
17:35.42 ValarQ is it stored in the database then?
17:35.54 brlcad those can be stashed into the .g file, but there's no formality for getting mged to recognize them there yet
17:36.03 brlcad normally they are simply stashed in outboard files
17:36.06 ValarQ mged isn't important
17:36.33 brlcad but *any* file can be stashed into the .g as an object (binunif)
17:36.52 ValarQ oh, ok
17:36.55 clock_ brlcad: I think it would be OK if brlcad could export the lines from given orthographics projection like DXF
17:37.04 clock_ one could add the dimensions himself in a CAD
17:37.26 ValarQ would be nice to have dimensions stored under the view and having rtedge ploting them
17:37.40 ``Erik wow, that is one horrible interface o.O :D
17:37.41 archivist clock_ not poductive that way
17:37.43 brlcad clock_: yes, it seems to be the requested feature of this year
17:37.54 archivist productive
17:38.50 brlcad it wouldn't be hard (read more than a couple months effort) at all to add a 2D overlay primitive similar to the sketch object for representing annotations, dimensions, and lines, etc
17:39.22 brlcad the problem is more a gui then for creating/manipulating those features, and if they're dimensions -- a means to compute them and keep them up to date preferably
17:40.16 ValarQ brlcad: shouldn't they also be dependent on a view to be placed or plotted?
17:40.45 brlcad there are uses for both dependant and independant
17:40.56 ValarQ brlcad: otherwise it could be tricky to know where the dimension really are
17:41.06 brlcad though independant is actually quite harder (staying fixed to the projection they're being looked at from)
17:42.06 brlcad ValarQ: as long as perspective mode is turned off, it's fairly easy to compute -- you can take a view-aligned bounding box's width for example
17:42.47 ValarQ brlcad: isn't that the wrong way to measure?
17:42.50 archivist hmm dimensions should not be affected by view
17:43.16 brlcad the difficulty in general of commputing *any* of the dimensions, though is that it requires evaluation of the implicit form (expensive) or seamless transition to an explicit form (e.g. brep nurbs)
17:43.28 ValarQ well, in my head they should be affected by a view, but only one view, one that doesn't change
17:43.38 brlcad ValarQ: not if it's a tight-fit and you're dimensioning orthogonal
17:44.01 brlcad it really depends what it is that you are trying to dimension
17:44.35 brlcad for some random subpiece of a subassembly, no that wouldn't work so well if you couldn't specify the whole subassembly/combination
17:44.36 ValarQ how should you store the dimension?
17:45.25 brlcad as a dimension object type in the database (the 2D overlay primitive I referred to)
17:45.55 brlcad can have attributes tying it to the original, constraints attributes for optionally keeping it up to date, etc
17:46.03 archivist should they be atached to the skect primatives
17:46.12 archivist sketch
17:46.12 ValarQ yeah
17:46.27 ValarQ have you used the sketch function in pro/engineer?
17:46.47 archivist Im a solidworks person
17:46.55 brlcad sketch primitive would not be my first choice, simply because they require shape closure, have a defined 2D inside and outside
17:47.11 brlcad i have used sketch in pro/e, though it was a couple years back now
17:47.47 brlcad it could certainly be an attribute of a sketch, though, or reference a sketch if it were an object itself
17:48.06 brlcad mind you i'm talking about the implementation, not whatever the user interface chose to present it as
17:48.35 ValarQ brlcad: me too
17:48.37 brlcad the user interface could very well "show" a dimension tied to a sketch object.. that's regardless
17:49.46 archivist tied to or driving
18:05.57 ``Erik oh, neat, mged -c is 'more awesomer'
18:08.55 clock_ is there man mged?
18:12.14 ``Erik clock_: yes, add /usr/brlcad/man to your MANPATH
18:16.00 clock_ ``Erik: I think the brlcad didn't say that at the end.
18:26.31 ``Erik pipe_in... eck
19:05.04 ``Erik I must be hungry, I'm gettin' dizzy :/
19:19.10 ``Erik sean, why does pipeseg have a magic value defined and no field for magic?
19:19.21 ``Erik wdb.h:120
19:21.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/ (rtgeom.h wdb.h): store metaball control points in a bu_list of structs instead of an array of homogenous vectors
19:32.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: Initial metaball parser (heavily based on pipes) and minor cleanup.
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20:54.53 AbsTradELic hi
20:55.43 ValarQ hiya
21:06.38 AbsTradELic I'll come back
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21:18.31 AbsTradELic ok
21:22.05 AbsTradELic hi all !
21:23.29 AbsTradELic to have a compreensive view of project, I need something informations
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060715

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060715

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00:35.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: fixed a minor issue with the metaball interactive prompt
01:49.37 brlcad ``Erik: that structure is a list element -- part of how libbu does list structures is by embedding the list structure as the first element as utilizing aliasing
01:50.07 brlcad in this case, bu_list structures have a magic, which is what wdb_pipept is using since it's a list element
01:50.58 brlcad and not a isolated structure in the case of the rt_pipe_internal (which has it's own magic as the first element more visibly)
01:57.12 brlcad note that the bu_list trick is only used on actual list node elements, not structs that reference some list as is seen elsewhere
02:03.07 ``Erik ohyeah... fergot about that, I knew bu_list had bu_prev and bu_next and did ugly off-sized struct casting
02:03.44 ``Erik fergot they stored magic, too
02:03.53 ``Erik erm, forw and back, rather
02:12.28 brlcad yeah, it's a great C hack that just causes compiler's too much grief :)
02:12.43 brlcad C polymorphism
02:13.25 brlcad i though about trying to unwide it in brl-cad too so aliasing could be removed.. but that really would be an utterly massive effort
02:18.22 ``Erik indeed... heh, I was talking to jason this morning about it
02:18.39 ``Erik that plus the heavy macro usage in like vmath makes something like swig... intractable
02:19.34 brlcad hrm? what does vmath have to do with swig?
02:20.17 ``Erik vmath has lots of macros...
02:20.26 ``Erik in order to expose something to swig, it has to be a function, not a macro
02:20.38 ``Erik so all that crap in vmath.h cannot be exposed to the scripting language :)
02:21.18 brlcad vmath is entirely macros
02:22.04 brlcad there are (or at least were) actually functional equivalents of most of the macros in vmath in libbn
02:22.13 ``Erik ayup... that's why jason brought it up as the representative problem file... the issue is with macros, not functions... :)
02:22.27 brlcad they were just refactored away due to a very clear performance boost
02:23.10 brlcad even with compiler inline directives, which sometime's wouldn't, though most of the code preceeds the inline directive by about a decade
02:23.32 brlcad vmath is a fairly special case though
02:23.37 brlcad not really representative
02:24.19 brlcad the vast majority of the librt api isn't macros after all .. so what if scripts have to figure out how to add a vector all by themselves
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19:14.18 IriX64 irssi is too cadillacy for me
19:20.13 ``Erik so you used ircII, or telnet?
19:25.03 IriX64 ermmff galactick communicator :)
19:26.25 IriX64 irssi assumes all cygwin environments are the same :)
19:31.33 IriX64 heh ``Erik -- both ;)
19:35.33 IriX64 hate fargin projects that dont honour --prefix properly.
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19:37.04 IriX64 ahh it works now.
19:37.59 IriX64 hmph no version reply.
19:41.52 IriX64 I'm doing all right, getting good grades, futures so bright, i gotta wear shades.
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22:36.58 IriX64 rubes,dudes,dudettes,and rowdies, how's it?
22:38.14 IriX64 bb l8r, still having system grief, anybody got a bandaid for my knuckles. :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060716

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060716

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14:07.23 pra5ad ./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `bn_mat_inverse'
14:08.05 clock_ bn_camping_mat_inverse?
14:43.31 ``Erik librt not seeing libbn? O.o
14:50.01 clock_ O.o
15:28.49 pra5ad error from make
15:28.58 pra5ad just co'd cvs head
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21:01.14 pra5ad quack
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060717

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060717

00:48.22 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:19.17 brlcad binaries out of date, refresh build and make from start (clean up)
02:56.36 pra5ad refresh build?
02:56.48 pra5ad that was make from a fresh CO
02:57.22 pra5ad but trying make after clean
03:44.28 brlcad hmm, could also be side effect of running from improper install or picking up old libs from previous install or LD_LIBRARY_FLAG is set, etc
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08:07.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp: do not use precompiled header files
08:08.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: do not use precompiled header files
08:09.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, - memset.c, + mread.c
08:11.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, + g_metaball.c
08:13.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, - getopt.c
08:14.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/libwdb.dsp: do not use precompiled header files
08:20.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: += increments a pointer depending on the size of its basetype but what is the size of void? (MSVC 6.0 error)
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14:15.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/xdr.c: ws
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15:50.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: clean up after the mged_shaders.log
15:55.35 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_walk.c): The beginning of a new database traversal framework.
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16:20.03 ``Erik me cocks his head
16:20.07 ``Erik / even
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17:34.54 clock_ How is it actually with all the sun-exposure hysteria?
17:35.40 archivist damned hot here and we are outside fixing the car ready for the annual test
17:56.33 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): consistently use the .pl extension for plot files, not .plot
18:01.19 clock_ tofu: do you eat tofu?
18:06.15 clock_ tofu: are you eating tofu?
18:47.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: install the pad_file.xml
18:48.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad.spec.in: update the rpm build spec file using more configure autoconf variables instead of in-lining everything. use the right url for downloads too.
18:48.27 brlcad i wish
18:53.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: simple reorder
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23:01.34 traffic_hazard good afternoon
23:02.10 traffic_hazard anyone know of a good source for BRL CAD documentation?
23:02.10 brlcad cheers
23:02.30 brlcad http://brlcad.org has several documents that may be of interest
23:02.46 traffic_hazard I'll have to take another look there
23:03.09 brlcad in particular, the brief overview, the introduction to mged volume II, the MGED Quick Reference sheet, the Principles of modeling volume III
23:03.23 traffic_hazard Thank you
23:03.38 brlcad those are a starting point for seeing some of the capabilities and limitations
23:04.01 brlcad if you're a dev, there's plenty more documentation for jumping in and getting started with something
23:05.36 traffic_hazard Thank you much. Those should get me started :-)
23:05.44 *** part/#brlcad traffic_hazard (n=ben@206.80.217.37)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060718

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060718

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20:14.47 ``Erik ho hum
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23:31.16 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
23:43.39 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:43.39 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060719

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060719

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04:16.15 job # nickname Le.S.Eohn
04:16.27 fenn try /nick
04:17.01 job sorry, thank's
04:20.32 Lyon Brlcad currently find Handbook is difficulty think
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04:46.01 job Hi,all to wake up
04:50.03 job who ,to supply can me brlcad handbook's
04:55.52 job hi,brlcad you are is uplink's ?
04:58.16 job bye
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13:12.06 ``Erik heh
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15:05.49 ``Erik a/nop
15:45.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: point to the v5 export/import, not v4...
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17:07.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: metaball: minor cleanup, and save threshhold to struct
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18:50.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: v5 import/export implemented. Removed v4 stubs. Made all stubs log.
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19:30.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor bugfix, implemented "describe" and "ifree"
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060720

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060720

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10:58.38 matt_ezeki_230 hi guys... i wonder if there is a way to show hidden lines of a solid model after raytrace with command rtedge -W -s1024 as broken lines
11:15.49 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: it'd be easy enough to show the hidden lines.. though rendering to a particular style of "broken" or dashed lines would probably be tricky
11:17.21 brlcad probably doable as a probabalistic speckled line (e.g. randomly don't draw N% of the hidden line pixels)
11:17.39 brlcad not as nice as hard dashes, but would probably get the point across
11:31.27 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: ok thanks... could i ask to you which command in command window or option need i to set to show hidden raytraced lines as speckled lines?
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13:38.04 matt_ezeki_230 i tried your method but i was still unable to show hidden lines as speckled lines. Let my explain the issue with an exemple:
13:38.17 matt_ezeki_230 1) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
13:38.21 matt_ezeki_230 2) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
13:38.25 matt_ezeki_230 and i need to show hidden lines of the both cylinders after raytracing.
13:38.34 matt_ezeki_230 Because file "http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Trifold_Card.pdf" says "raytrace white background hidden-line image -> rtedge -W -o file.pix", i wonder if i've understood properly:
13:38.50 matt_ezeki_230 hidden lines can be showed as speckled lines or hard dashes lines with the ONLY following command
13:38.54 matt_ezeki_230 3) rtedge -W -s1024 -o file.pix
13:39.00 matt_ezeki_230 ?
13:44.20 clock_ matt_ezeki_230: can you show hidden lines with rtedge?
13:45.34 matt_ezeki_230 no i can't. i'm here just to know if is it possible with rtedge or other ways...
13:46.48 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad says "it'd be easy enough to show the hidden lines...probably doable as a probabalistic speckled line (e.g. randomly don't draw N% of the hidden line pixels)..."
13:47.24 matt_ezeki_230 but i have any idea to do his method
14:08.32 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: I said it would be "doable" to implement/add such a feature to rtedge, not that it exists right now
14:08.58 brlcad what you can do with it now is do a multi-pass composite
14:10.19 clock_ brlcad: or make a multipass and make the invisible edges with a grey shade
14:10.33 clock_ brlcad: how do you do multipass? Make another view from the other side and then mirror it?
14:10.39 brlcad either overlaying the wireframe image (which shows the hidden lines) with an rtedge raytrace
14:10.46 brlcad or using two rtedge passes
14:12.08 brlcad clock_: doesn't have to be from the other side, rtedge understands a bunch of options that make it show more/fewer edges
14:12.27 clock_ brlcad: cool
14:12.37 clock_ --show-more-edges --show-even-more-edges :)
14:12.48 clock_ --i-said-i-want-more-edges!
14:13.02 brlcad for example, matt_ezeki_230, you might want to try the "detect regions" flag that will draw hidden edges on region boundaries if you've correctly created parts/assemblies (i.e. regions and groups)
14:13.07 brlcad close :)
14:13.16 brlcad -c"set detect_regions=1" ;)
14:13.20 clock_ brlcad: today I am going into the surf course again :)
14:16.02 brlcad also has -c"set overlaymode=1" for multipass rtedgings, but I suspect the best way will be to save the mged wireframe to an image and composite it over
14:16.29 brlcad clock_: cool, where abouts?
14:16.46 clock_ brlcad: I don't understand now what you mean
14:17.11 brlcad where are you surfing?
14:18.33 clock_ brlcad: on Zurich lake. But there are no waves. Only paddling training
14:18.39 clock_ brlcad: do you swim front crawl?
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14:35.24 brlcad clock_: not sure what that means
14:35.30 brlcad hello rossberg!
14:36.18 brlcad rossberg: you were quite a topic of discussion recently ..
14:36.49 rossberg brlcad: really?
14:37.05 brlcad yeah, at the annual STMG and MEVA meetings
14:37.53 brlcad some discussion on your windows brl-cad geometry viewer
14:38.11 rossberg ah, there was a meeting. interesting
14:38.19 brlcad and on a bunker model
14:38.32 brlcad yeah, every year
14:38.35 rossberg in september there will a meeting at the iabg
14:39.27 rossberg the bunker isn't from me (the model), but i made colculations with it
14:39.45 clock_ brlcad: I mean you lie on the face and paddle with your hands and you swim this way. The fastest swimming style known.
14:41.39 *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
14:42.36 brlcad clock_: how else would you do it??
14:44.44 clock_ brlcad: :)
14:45.02 clock_ brlcad: for example breastroke
14:57.15 brlcad with a surfboard?? :)
14:57.55 clock_ brlcad: no just with the body, swimming
15:01.23 brlcad ahh
15:01.38 brlcad usually freestyle or backstroke
15:22.13 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: thanks for your answers. Unfortunately i'm a beginner user of brlcad and i've any idea of what a multi-pass composite is. Furthermore i've found anything about detect regions flag and -c"set detect_regions=1" command in MGED_Quick_Ref, VolumeII... and VolumeIII... docs
15:24.15 matt_ezeki_230 Please, could you give me an example of use to create parts/assemblies correctly using "detect regions" flag? thanks in advance
16:27.04 matt_ezeki_230 are you still here ? :-)
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23:00.20 ``Erik sean, ya busy?
23:05.30 brlcad always
23:08.13 ``Erik got a librt question if you're in the mood
23:09.10 ``Erik got 'prep' and something in the shot func, but when I pull the trigger, shoot.c throws an oops, the ray origin is 'bad', with big honkin' numbers (like Xe40)... what'd I fuck up?
23:10.03 brlcad you have to set up the ray in the app structure before you first
23:10.07 brlcad s/first/fire/
23:10.21 ``Erik hm, I'm not doing an app, this is bin/rt
23:10.33 brlcad look at src/rt/rtexample.c as a reference, notice how it sets:
23:10.33 brlcad <PROTECTED>
23:10.33 brlcad <PROTECTED>
23:10.53 brlcad what do you mean then that you "pull the trigger"?
23:11.18 ``Erik well, I got a .g file with a toplevel metaball called "ball" and I run /usr/brlcad/bin/rt /tmp/poo.g ball
23:11.19 brlcad the shot routine eventually gets passed that a_ray at some point
23:11.39 brlcad at lease the shot routine gets a ray from somewhere, and it has to be "valid"
23:11.46 ``Erik ALL I've done to the file is "title metaballs" "units mm" "in ball metaball (lots of numbers)"
23:11.54 brlcad ahhh
23:12.21 brlcad shot func sounds screwed up
23:12.39 ``Erik mine? all mine does at the moment is a bu_log ... which does NOT display
23:13.18 ``Erik are you in tomorrow?
23:13.20 brlcad and returns 1?
23:13.27 ``Erik um, returns 0 I believe
23:13.31 brlcad hmm
23:13.59 ``Erik but since it never prints the bu_log string, I assume the return value is irrelevant
23:14.14 brlcad ahh, it doesn't get that far?
23:14.18 ``Erik newp
23:14.51 ``Erik if you're in office tomorrow, I'll show you the code and output... I'm still trying to get my feet under me wrt brlcad source... :)
23:15.09 brlcad then it's got to be prep work
23:15.15 brlcad i'm in for half-day
23:15.19 brlcad so good luck..
23:15.27 ``Erik all I do in prep is set a couple bounding spheres...
23:15.38 brlcad yeah, have to set the bounding spheres and the bounding boxes
23:15.44 ``Erik oh, the box as well?
23:15.45 brlcad it "should" all be soltab stuff
23:15.51 brlcad yeah, has to set min/max
23:15.52 ``Erik the, um, max/min or the later one?
23:16.03 brlcad st_min[X/Y/Z] and st_max
23:16.10 ``Erik okie, I'll hack something into that and see if I can get my shot function to kick...
23:16.26 ``Erik tomorrie... now it's time to cook and drink and watch tv, w00t
23:16.28 ``Erik thanks :)
23:17.38 brlcad should set st_center, st_aradius, st_bradius, st_specific, st_min, and st_max
23:20.07 ``Erik ok, I only did the first three... what's st_specific?
23:20.12 ``Erik min/max being aabb coords?
23:20.59 ``Erik is st_specific the bu_list for 'render ready' crap?
23:25.00 brlcad st_specific isn't probably necessary, but that'd be your in-memory prep'd data holding things like precomputed values that are useful for any ray
23:25.29 brlcad it's basically a void * to whatever the hell you want
23:25.56 brlcad and yeah, min/max are the aabb
23:26.41 brlcad that's probably what it's crappingg on, it's probably some inf or inverted box or random vals, so when it translates a ray to the start or other side, it goes whack
23:27.36 ``Erik okie
23:27.54 ``Erik at the moment, I'm not sure I see anything that can effectively be precomputed
23:28.16 ``Erik so I'll leave that one blank, do the aabb, see if I can't get a trivial 'walking' ray...
23:28.35 ``Erik I may be harrassin' ya next tuesday... :)
23:29.05 ``Erik (sorry, a few yrs ago, I woulda been all about chugging this out over the weekend, but I'm broken and embittered given my previous... assignment...)
23:32.53 brlcad sad sad .. :)
23:33.04 brlcad that's sweet code to poke on
23:34.44 brlcad i think i enjoy working on primitives more than most of the rest of the codebase.. it's nice and fundamental, math intensive, and you get to see pretty stuff when it all finally works
23:35.02 brlcad the boolean weaver is fun too, but you don't get that visual
23:44.21 ``Erik *shrug* I showed up, wrote a build system, fixed geoffs lserver, and was slammed into muves3
23:44.32 ``Erik I didn't really get the opportunity to learn much about brlcad
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060721

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060721

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03:15.29 pra5ad ah forgot to forward the response from john hable (of csg on gpus fame)
03:16.18 brlcad well, skip to it
03:16.36 pra5ad ill do it tomorrow
03:16.40 pra5ad zzzzz
03:16.45 brlcad wuss
03:16.46 brlcad :)
03:18.13 brlcad have to get up in 4 hours only to then row for 2 hours followed by a half hour bike ride
03:28.01 iday depends on your point of view
03:28.19 iday you better be getting to sleep then
11:39.01 CIA-8 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. (bob1961)
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14:06.50 ``Erik o.O
14:08.04 ``Erik sean, the st_min/st_max fixed it... thanks
14:09.02 brlcad np
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19:25.04 brlcad g0t b0ef?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060722

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060722

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03:31.32 IriX64 3 days later... and im still reconstructing my system.
03:33.14 IriX64 sorry man had no idea.
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16:17.01 ValarQ IriX64: crashed raid array?
16:17.44 IriX64 entire cliuster ;)
16:18.05 IriX64 BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0, Build 20060722
16:18.05 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
16:18.05 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
16:18.05 IriX64 Configuration files: /usr/linuxbrlcad/etc
16:18.06 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
16:18.08 IriX64 CC = gcc
16:18.10 IriX64 CFLAGS = -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -O3
16:18.13 IriX64 CPPFLAGS = -I/usr/X11R6/include -I$(top_srcdir)/include
16:18.15 IriX64 LDFLAGS = -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-com
16:18.18 IriX64 mon -O3
16:18.20 IriX64 LIBS =
16:18.23 IriX64 Build Tcl ............................: yes
16:18.25 IriX64 Build Tk .............................: yes
16:18.28 IriX64 Build Itcl/Itk .......................: yes
16:18.30 IriX64 Build IWidgets .......................: yes
16:18.33 IriX64 Build BLT ............................: yes
16:18.35 IriX64 Build tkImg ..........................: yes
16:18.38 IriX64 Build libpng .........................: yes
16:18.40 IriX64 Build libregex .......................: yes
16:18.43 IriX64 Build zlib ...........................: yes
16:18.45 IriX64 Build termlib ........................: yes
16:18.49 IriX64 so you know im working on something :)
16:19.56 IriX64 want to see the rest of it?
16:20.15 IriX64 have to wait a bit its installing now.
16:21.52 ValarQ whats with all the pasting?
16:22.04 IriX64 i cant type fast.
16:22.24 IriX64 and i want you to know im not a geek.
16:22.29 fenn we dont really need to see your compile logs
16:22.44 IriX64 thats just the summary.
16:22.49 fenn over and over again
16:22.51 IriX64 of configure.
16:23.07 IriX64 ill refrain from further pasting.
16:24.02 fenn thank you
16:24.13 IriX64 your welcome.
16:25.10 IriX64 can't wait to see mged again, ive missed her :)
16:29.19 IriX64 you offer --prefix= but your code expects /usr/brlcad, why ?
16:31.26 ``Erik if you use --prefix, it expects the prefix you gave it... if you don't, it defaults to /usr/brlcad/
16:32.49 IriX64 i used --prefix=/usr/linuxbrlcad it installed but mged complained on startup.
16:33.09 ``Erik were you running the right mged?
16:33.10 IriX64 so i renamed the directory brlcad and it came up.
16:33.20 IriX64 theres only one mged
16:33.28 ``Erik did you have old build files sitting around?
16:33.29 IriX64 the one in bin.
16:33.34 IriX64 no
16:34.18 IriX64 hey want my shot summary of havoc :)
16:34.54 IriX64 ermmfff how would i paste it?
16:35.09 IriX64 may i try, might help me out here.
16:35.29 IriX64 never mind ill join a dummy channel.
16:37.18 IriX64 worked
16:42.31 IriX64 12 fps, not bad.
16:44.24 IriX64 should send you the plot or postscript file of this, youll crap your pants.
16:46.40 IriX64 harrmphh, tried to sent it to a plot file and everything shutdown.
16:48.56 IriX64 havoc.plot whowants it?
16:53.02 IriX64 havoc.sh too.
16:58.34 IriX64 source lower right view destination lower left view sweetest picture ive ever seen.
17:00.09 IriX64 Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
17:00.16 IriX64 :)
17:01.15 IriX64 smoke break... work wait, but don't go away :)
17:08.31 *** part/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
17:34.54 brlcad IriX64: if you have stuff you want to share and it's more than just a couple lines, use pastebin instead of here
17:34.57 brlcad ~pastebin
17:34.59 ibot pastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
17:35.40 brlcad seeing your build options isn't very interesting too, fwiw unless something is broken ..
17:38.57 IriX64 thankyou.
17:39.11 ``Erik http://paste.lisp.org/ beeyotch
17:39.33 IriX64 ~pastebin
17:39.35 ibot well, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
17:39.45 IriX64 whup.
17:42.05 ``Erik this place sure does look different when it's clean O.o
17:45.35 IriX64 i'll pay money for the tank with slat armor database, (I'll also pay money for the key to Ms. Aprils .g file but thats another issue) :)
17:46.16 brlcad ~pastebin is also http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts
17:46.19 ibot brlcad: okay
17:49.37 IriX64 captive audience.
17:50.31 brlcad not for long if you keep doing it :)
17:50.54 IriX64 heh i know.
17:54.03 IriX64 too much like work, i'm basically a lazy slob.:)
17:57.07 brlcad so lazily look at them :)
17:57.17 brlcad nobody makes you, do it for fun
17:57.24 brlcad or for recognition
17:57.33 brlcad or for no reason at all ;)
17:59.55 IriX64 you neglect to add but farking well do it. :)
18:01.11 IriX64 can you send .jpg files to that pastebin?
18:03.36 IriX64 shot on pastebin.com have a look.
18:04.00 IriX64 never mind blahhhhhh.
18:05.24 IriX64 ill send you a jpeg of my screen when im finished building it and bring it up for test.
18:05.42 IriX64 right now tho smoke break.
18:07.22 b0ef brlcad: yup, inkscape supports offset curves
18:07.58 b0ef brlcad: too bad it's only bezier; so when I change one part of the curve, the rest of the curve is affected;)
18:21.56 IriX64 unilateral
18:23.50 IriX64 hey b0ef... libtoolize it ;)
18:25.04 brlcad b0ef: ahh, yeah they can be a pain for curve editing.. having to add all the extra control points to keep the other parts from moving much
18:59.34 clock_ ``Erik: what do you do for the chicks?
19:01.30 ``Erik brlcad tracker stuff
19:44.35 IriX64 would u let me send one of you a .jpg?
19:44.40 IriX64 you
19:45.08 IriX64 the chicks name is havoc.
19:48.44 ``Erik ... I've seen the mi28 an awful lot over the last few years. You're not going to show me anything I'm not completely bored with seeing.
19:49.35 IriX64 its a shot of my desktop rendering havoc and doing a few other things.
19:49.46 ``Erik tell the truth, I really don't care...
19:49.48 ``Erik sorry
19:49.53 IriX64 ahh well.
19:50.11 ``Erik <-- busy doing the home improvement thing o.O
19:50.35 IriX64 i like my home home just the way it is ... sloppy.
19:52.22 IriX64 brb reboot is indicated (Tell the truth, you probably don't care :))
20:00.48 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308865.sympatico.ca)
20:05.31 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0
20:05.31 IriX64 $ aclocal
20:05.31 IriX64 /usr/share/aclocal/pkg.m4:5: warning: underquoted definition of PKG_CHECK_MODULE
20:05.31 IriX64 S run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
20:05.34 IriX64 /usr/share/aclocal/libsmi.m4:8: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_LIBSM
20:05.36 IriX64 I
20:05.39 IriX64 /usr/share/aclocal/libmcrypt.m4:17: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_L
20:05.42 IriX64 IBMCRYPT
20:05.44 IriX64 /usr/share/aclocal/libgcrypt.m4:23: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_L
20:05.47 IriX64 IBGCRYPT
20:05.49 IriX64 /usr/share/aclocal/freetype2.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AC_CHECK_F
20:05.52 IriX64 T2
20:05.54 IriX64 /usr/share/aclocal/cppunit.m4:4: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_CPPU
20:05.57 IriX64 NIT
20:05.59 IriX64 aclocal:configure.ac:2765: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library
20:06.01 IriX64 is this normal?
20:09.39 ``Erik yes, and quit pasting shit here, dude
20:10.33 IriX64 sorry wont do it again, thought i found something.
20:10.43 IriX64 next time ill ask.
20:11.08 ``Erik if it's more than one line, use a paste site and say the url...
20:11.27 IriX64 thankyou. ill use pstebin.com.
20:11.36 IriX64 err pastebin.com
20:11.46 IriX64 hahhaah pestbin.com ;)
20:12.05 ``Erik (some of us leave for hours, then come back and read the backscroll... pasted shit makes it a lot harder for us)
20:12.22 IriX64 true lack of thought on my part.
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21:02.30 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
21:44.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: detect a recursive configure, it's not really properly supported yet.. but if the problem is glibtool, we should be able to continue through a restart with LIBTOOLIZE set
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22:27.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: no longer need to define IMPORT_FASTGEN4_SECTION
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060723

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060723

00:23.12 *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:23.12 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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01:46.15 IriX64 mmmm would you be interested in the source to that linuxbrlcad.zip i sent to ftp.brlcad.org a while back?
01:47.46 IriX64 ill take that as a yes, you're free to delete it if it doesn't pass muster.
01:49.01 brlcad the source?
01:49.06 brlcad why, did you change the sources?
01:49.15 IriX64 eh?
01:49.35 brlcad why would I want the source to linuxbrlcad.zip?
01:49.51 IriX64 to go along with the bibaries.
01:50.03 brlcad but I mean did you actually modify the sources?
01:50.27 brlcad presumably you obtained the sourcecode from cvs or from a source distribution
01:50.47 brlcad so if you didn't modify the sources.... why would I need/want them?
01:51.08 IriX64 do the binaries not have stuff thats not there in the distribution?
01:51.22 IriX64 or did you even look at the binaries
01:51.24 IriX64 ?
01:51.28 brlcad i looked at the binaries
01:51.36 IriX64 stock?
01:51.38 brlcad you're avoiding my question though :)
01:51.45 brlcad did you modify the sources?
01:51.57 IriX64 i hate questions life would be simpler without them.
01:52.03 IriX64 yes i did.
01:52.32 brlcad care to share what and why? anything significant?
01:52.45 brlcad if it's useful, i'd integrate it into cvs
01:52.55 IriX64 geometry browser has been enhanced
01:53.08 brlcad I'm not going to go goose hunting for mysterious changes though :)
01:53.17 brlcad enhanced?
01:53.44 IriX64 just compile the code.
01:54.35 brlcad you enjoy being difficult and obscure, or is it just a hobby? :)
01:54.47 IriX64 both ;)
01:56.37 IriX64 smoke break.
02:30.46 IriX64 ah well client troubles, maybe another time.
02:32.12 IriX64 rhubarb anyone? :)
02:32.29 IriX64 this client isn't equipped for that though.
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02:41.31 IriX64_ mention rhubarb one time ... my system goes to war on me.
02:43.21 IriX64_ man wheres the status screen on irssi?
02:44.23 IriX64_ ill be back.
02:46.34 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4308865.sympatico.ca)
02:47.03 IriX64 clients should be all the same :)
02:50.00 IriX64 sugar or salt?
02:51.03 brlcad it's like rhubarb pie, but with a sugary crunchy topping in a baking dish
02:53.25 IriX64 thought you meant a stick of rhubarb lightly sprinkled.
02:57.35 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0
02:57.35 IriX64 $ ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --enable-math --enable-optimi
02:57.35 IriX64 zations --disable-shared --build=i586-unix-freebsd
02:58.09 IriX64 did i miss any options?
03:02.55 IriX64 cleverly programmed into each build cycle is a looooong smoke break :)
03:02.58 brlcad --with-x is the default
03:03.36 IriX64 thank you wasn't sure thought i looked in configure --help and saw it wasn't or something.
03:03.46 IriX64 or read it wrong.
03:28.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed)
03:28.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: yet another fairly massive rewrite, this time mostly just restructuring. keep
03:28.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: track of the basename for better output messages and refactor the initialization
03:28.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: steps into a function. also refactor the libtool failure check into a function
03:28.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: while we're at it as well. all steps towards being able to cleanly handle
03:28.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: manual build steps of projects using recursive configure. oh, and this change
03:28.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: removes the directory change to the autogen.sh script, so it must once again be
04:16.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: allow external overrides on HELP, QUIET, VERBOSE, and VERSION_ONLY. document the settable project defaults
04:29.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: utilize the RUN_RECURSIVE define so that we don't recurse more than once during autogening
05:34.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mike-tux.ppm: The file in the cvs repository was corrupted. Sean, be careful when using scripts to update all files :-)
05:34.47 brlcad oops
05:37.25 brlcad ahh, some lines actually end with a color that equaled a space/tab char
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07:19.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add a manual_autogen function that runs the manual configuration steps. this makes it possible to add support for manual recursive configure build support.
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08:56.18 ``Erik hah
08:58.11 ``Erik (dare I 'orange' mike-tux.ppm to get ride of those two revisions?)
13:40.38 brlcad nah
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15:01.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: speling
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15:34.04 *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
15:34.04 *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
16:16.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: allow environment variable overrides on AUTORECONF, AUTOCONF, AUTOMAKE, LIBTOOLIZE, ACLOCAL, AUTOHEADER. fix --help so it works again (need to rewrite so it's not just a configure pass-through)
17:50.30 *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host117-24.pool8710.interbusiness.it)
17:50.39 matt_ezeki_230 hello guys...
17:53.26 brlcad hello
17:59.08 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: hi, do you remember an our 3-4 days ago chat? We talked about to show a solid inside an other solid as broken line and you suggested me to use direct region flag...
17:59.35 brlcad as a potential direction
18:00.05 brlcad along with maybe merging the mged wireframe with a rendered version
18:02.09 matt_ezeki_230 yes, show potential direction as broken line after a raytrace
18:02.53 matt_ezeki_230 I tried to find any example of use of direct region flag
18:03.06 matt_ezeki_230 but without success
18:03.39 matt_ezeki_230 and neither a definition of direct region flag in MGED_Quick_Ref, VolumeII...
18:03.45 matt_ezeki_230 VolumeIII.. etc...
18:04.10 matt_ezeki_230 would you be so kind as to give me a simple example of use?
18:05.09 brlcad it's in the manpage
18:05.13 brlcad for rtedge
18:06.14 brlcad somewhat obscure detail to be putting into introductory training docs ;)
18:33.03 matt_ezeki_230 ok... I think i'm near at hand the solution! I gave the command rtedge -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" but it returns the following error:
18:33.48 matt_ezeki_230 rt_do_cmd("set): command not found
18:36.03 matt_ezeki_230 BRL-CAD Release 7.8.2 .....
18:38.01 matt_ezeki_230 /usr/brlcad/bin/rtedge -M -W -s850 -c"set
18:38.15 matt_ezeki_230 opendb dr=1";
18:38.53 matt_ezeki_230 rt: rt_dirbuild(dr=1") failure
18:39.02 matt_ezeki_230 any suggestion??
19:05.46 brlcad run it on the command line, not inside mged
19:06.01 brlcad otherwise you get into tclsh issues and how to go about escaping options, etc
19:15.22 matt_ezeki_230 ok...but something was wrong...
19:15.27 matt_ezeki_230 i gave
19:15.35 matt_ezeki_230 in mged:
19:15.48 matt_ezeki_230 1) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
19:16.00 matt_ezeki_230 2) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
19:16.10 matt_ezeki_230 3) r reg.r u a.s u b.s
19:16.19 matt_ezeki_230 in command line:
19:17.03 matt_ezeki_230 /usr/brlcad/bin/rtedge -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" test.g reg.r >test.pix
19:17.21 brlcad rtedge doesn't send to stdout
19:17.27 brlcad rtedge -o test.pix
19:18.03 matt_ezeki_230 really? I obtained a correct graphic with both cylinders...
19:18.12 brlcad or rtedge -F/dev/Xl -o test.pix -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" test.g reg.r in order to both see it in a window and render to file
19:20.25 matt_ezeki_230 ok the graphic is raytraced but there are any broken lines in cylinders intersection....
19:20.45 matt_ezeki_230 neither using -c"set dr=1"...
19:24.45 brlcad the "broken lines" are likely related to the default curvature tolerance
19:24.56 brlcad you'll have to tweak that as they are the same region
19:25.13 brlcad so you're only using curvature information to draw the edge
19:33.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: bowers middle is anthony, so sayeth the rtedge manpage
19:38.56 brlcad ahh, I see what you mean by the "broken lines".. it's because those two cynlinders begin to merge there within the edge/curvature tolerance so it's no longer considered an edge
19:39.25 brlcad that doesn't seem to be a configurable tolerance either, it's on or off (e.g. dn=0)
19:41.09 brlcad i could make that configurable if you really would like that feature .. depends if it's significant as edges such as those are questionably still edges
19:41.55 brlcad e.g. you'll never really get the X to come fully together as the point at which they meet is very much a smooth crossing
20:11.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
20:11.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: woot, this little "script" is in excess of 1000 lines... in celebration, finally
20:11.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: break tradition with other autogen.sh convention by adding a more useful --help
20:11.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: option instead of passing it on to configure. also add support to override any
20:11.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: of the command (autoreconf, automake, etc) options via a set of _OPTIONS
20:11.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: environment variables.
21:00.48 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
21:13.41 *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@mstr195175-16578.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr)
21:13.54 lg_ hi...
21:14.25 brlcad howdy
21:15.03 lg_ finally got into the irc-channel... just a real brlcad-noob, however ;-)
21:15.32 brlcad welcome, lots of noobs abound ;)
21:16.04 lg_ anyone among those who ever tried brlcad's mged on a mac?
21:16.24 brlcad plenty do, it's one of the primary dev platforms
21:17.16 lg_ hm, than i must have done something really stupid - i could not find out how to navigate, e.g. zoom in and out, using keyboard shortcuts...
21:17.34 lg_ thought it was an exotic platform for brlcad
21:19.00 lg_ and without this kind of usability, it is even hard to try out ;-)
21:19.47 brlcad the mged modeler in brl-cad wasn't designed to be "discoverable", that's likely a large portion of your difficulties with it
21:20.22 lg_ ;-) but i suppose there is a way to navigate with keyboard / shortcuts, right?
21:22.14 brlcad yes and no
21:22.38 brlcad the command line is clearly key oriented and *everything* you can do with the gui can be done without the gui interface
21:23.04 brlcad did you see the shiftgrips and mged quick reference on the website?
21:23.24 brlcad the introduction to mged tutorial on there is also pretty good for getting walked through the basics
21:23.40 brlcad takes just a couple hours to get through the whole series if you're diligent
21:25.22 lg_ ok. i have mged with a model opened, and the geometry browser says there are three objects, one spere and a cylinder among those. i am in the graphics window, and the view menu claims that 'I' and 'O' should zoom in and out. Do I have to press the Apple-Key, the Ctrl-Key or anything together, or what does it mean? I simply don't see an effect. I also do not know how to move to an initial view showing all objects, if I do not know their posi
21:25.44 lg_ ;-) I know the pdf-documentation, it is pretty well done
21:30.53 lg_ i think my entry level problems are even too basic to be solved with the documentation - I do not know how to control the gui even
21:32.03 brlcad mged's graphical is not the greatest ;) the command line is a fair bit more powerful
21:32.13 brlcad there's work on-going on a new graphical interface (two projects actually)
21:34.19 lg_ i heard about it. but don't misunderstand me, i like editing by the command line. it is just necessary to have some viewer app, e.g. to explore geometry imported from other applications. right now, i see a black mged graphics window with one bright pixel in the middle, and entering the shortcuts simply shows no effect. that is my current problem ;-) still, is there some information about the new guis available now?
21:34.51 lg_ and, by the way, did anyone bind to the brlcad-libs from c++?
21:35.49 brlcad ahh, you found a bug
21:36.22 brlcad I and O were zoom in/out but the command that they bound to no longer exists
21:36.22 lg_ no, that cannot be true, it's a bug? after all my new grey hair now???
21:36.37 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: maybe I posed you a too much trivial case...or too much particular issue. If you agree I could send to you 3 files: 2 database and an "instruction files" so you can see what I need to do...
21:37.18 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: sure
21:37.23 lg_ i was convinced to be the most stupid brlcad-beginner in the universe (or at least the ip4-address-space)
21:37.30 brlcad heh
21:39.05 lg_ so what is the new way to navigate a scene / model now, if the commands where removed? or have they been removed accidentally?
21:41.42 brlcad there's generally five different ways to get something done
21:42.26 brlcad e.g. zoom command on the command line, first and third mouse buttons
21:42.53 lg_ hey, one would even be sufficient... imagine me, sitting in front of mged, the geometry got imported, is shown in the geometry browser, and I cannot manage to see it
21:43.09 lg_ ok, lets try that
21:43.39 brlcad if you just want to see it, double click it in the geometry browser ;)
21:43.47 brlcad right-click in browser gives a menu
21:44.19 brlcad e or draw command will display geometry, tops command shows the top-level hierarchy
21:44.36 lg_ it's there!
21:45.00 lg_ the double-clicked showed it.
21:45.04 brlcad these commands are all in the mged quick reference and are covered by the tutorials ;)
21:45.16 brlcad (cept the browser isn't covered)
21:45.39 lg_ i am on a mac (laptop), using a one-button mouse. so i am used to use CTRL-left to emulate the right mouse button, what seams not to work in mged!
21:45.41 brlcad it's effectively "experimental" as there are a couple known limitations (in particular for one-button mouse systems)
21:46.26 brlcad cmd-click will display the menu on os x
21:46.48 brlcad move over the menu item and then hit return instead of clicking
21:47.08 brlcad and yes, that's very clunky..
21:47.23 brlcad I'd suggest learning the command line first unless you have a keyboard aversion
21:47.41 brlcad that interface will carry over to both of the new modelers too
21:48.13 lg_ ahem...yes, keeping the cmd-key and the mouse pressed, moving at the same time to the menu item and pressing enter, i think two people are needed to operate that on my mac ;-)
21:49.36 lg_ the new modelers could insist on keeping the eyes closed while performing these artistic operations ;-)
21:50.10 brlcad they'll certainly be more discoverable sans documentation at least :)
21:52.06 lg_ ok, now, after the first success, i got some motivation. don't take me wrong, I went through the doc, but i really had some problems because some basic functionality seamed not to work. and i started with an imported model, as that is where i am right now, i am considering to use brlcad on existing model data. so, even if i should have done so, i think it is not surprising that i first went through the modeling exercises.
21:52.37 brlcad by the way.. if you happen to be hitting keys and the model starts spinning on you.. hit 0 ;)
21:52.47 brlcad that's caused by xyzXYZ bindings
21:53.09 lg_ beautyful
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21:53.59 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: i'm trying to send you the 3 files..
21:54.04 brlcad similarly (f)ront, (l)eft back right top bottom, and (3)5/25 az/el view
21:55.00 brlcad matt_ezeki_230: thanks.. hadn't noticed..
21:55.06 lg_ by the way, the geometry i imported from formz by iges arrived like a charm, great. still, as far as i understood, brlcad is moving to step niw, right?
21:55.43 matt_ezeki_230 thanks to you for your help
21:55.54 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: thanks to you for your help
21:57.51 lg_ ok, i think i will play a while now ;-)
21:59.00 brlcad lg_: as far as mouse gui bindings for os x, shift+ctrl+mouse is zoom, shift+option+mouse is translate, ctrl+option+mouse is rotate
21:59.19 brlcad some more details on those in the shift-grips guide
22:00.00 lg_ ah, one more question (the answer may be hidden in the docs, but i could not fing it so far), not for the gui. can i use wildcards to operate on many objects, that are not grouped? as mentioned, i have existing geometry imported.
22:00.09 brlcad lg_: some work on a step importer was started though it is currently stalled effort as the lead dev that was working on it is off on something else right now
22:00.35 brlcad we do have the step specs though, and an updated version of the nist express parser
22:01.40 lg_ that's a pity, as the iges importer seams to support only rather old iges4. while, as menitioned, the geometry is fine, i could not use e.g. blocks (or references or instances or symbols or however it is called)
22:01.46 brlcad lg_: yes you can -- the mged command line has two evaluation modes -- the default is like a command shell with globbing operators eg ls *.r ; the other is tcl evaluation which is a lot more involved to explain if you don't know the Tcl language
22:02.10 lg_ yes, i know a bit about the story, i am on the free-architecture mailing list, and the step issue had been discusses
22:02.12 brlcad yeah, it would be nice if someone worked on updating the iges converter too
22:02.25 brlcad limited resources and time of course..
22:02.48 lg_ ok, no surprise if you are working on the gui and frontend stuff
22:03.05 brlcad yeah, that's the most "hurting" imho
22:03.51 brlcad we can hook in all existing importers and exporters and still be worlds better than most other projects even with the limited functionality and limitations on some of them
22:04.13 brlcad but it's hard to avoid the old mged gui at the moment
22:04.22 brlcad people expect/want something radically different
22:04.33 brlcad most at least
22:04.37 lg_ yes, but that is bound to specific applications
22:04.49 brlcad very much so
22:05.59 brlcad the follow up modeller addresses that problem with plugin profiles so you can have things like a gui with terminology changes specific to domains (e.g. CADD, CAE, CAM, CAA, etc)
22:07.31 lg_ i dream of something like small, nice tools to create high-level objects for architecture, a manager app that creates geometry from these and sends them to brlcad, a viewer showing them with librt, tracing view rays to find objects when the user hits a mouse button to implement snap, tracing back from the object to the again small app that generated the high level object that initiated its creation... nice design for an architectural cad sy
22:08.29 brlcad initial focus will likely be towards generic CAD integrating all of our existing functionality for geometry management, image manipulation, importers, exporters, renderers, etc
22:09.04 brlcad then move on towards whatever the community demands most (which at this point seems to be CADD, CAM, and CAA in probably that order)
22:09.16 lg_ ok, a generic 3d cad would be an outstanding project right now
22:10.01 brlcad we have all the implementation pretty much done, the brl-cad libraries provide 80-90% of what is needed already implementation-wise
22:10.10 brlcad what's missing is a gui ennvironment to wrap it all up in
22:10.24 lg_ my interest is in architectural cad, and that requires a level above the geometry. that does not mean that generic cad cannot be used for architecture, it is another way to work.
22:10.40 lg_ yes, the gui is a key issue to get these things accepted
22:11.14 brlcad sure, architecture (CAA) is very closely related to CADD needs.. drafting diagrams, constraints, parametrics, rendered plans, etc
22:11.46 brlcad lot more focus on 2D than you generally see in solid modeling leveraging extrusions more, sketches, etc
22:12.24 lg_ yes, but for caad you need some kind of intelligence in the objects. i do not like the 2d approach too much, i want an useable 3d model to extract information from
22:13.24 lg_ what i mean by intelligence is that a window belongs to a wall, that a corner of a wall is constructed by well-known rules depending on material etc, and that the actual geometry is the result of these
22:14.37 lg_ small generator applications could handle that very well, and i would feed the brlcad not directly by user input, but by a library of objects that the user generates
22:15.12 bjorkBSD window belongs to a wall ...
22:15.16 bjorkBSD or ANYTHING which would hold it.
22:15.21 bjorkBSD door ...
22:15.23 bjorkBSD roof.
22:15.44 bjorkBSD floor? (wtf?!)
22:16.21 bjorkBSD but idiomatically (note linguistic metaphor)
22:16.25 bjorkBSD it belongs in a wall.
22:17.04 lg_ yes, but the object should "know" this. it can still be flexible, but for architecture, it makes a lot of sense that placing a window in another object implies that an opening is cut into that object, and, if the object is moved, the window changes its position, too (some kind of parent-child-hierarchie here).
22:17.05 bjorkBSD ... and if you're a certain company in redmond, windows belong everywhere :D
22:17.29 lg_ than it belongs under the earth...
22:17.30 bjorkBSD i thought that was the whole point of CSG
22:17.37 brlcad those are constraints and hierarchical geometry views in a generic sense, also being thought about.. how I could say, for example, that I want to create a "typical" brick-mortar 2-level house
22:18.06 brlcad where i'd only specify dimensions, numbers of windows, doors, etc .. extreme example given the size/complexity but gives the idea
22:19.32 brlcad similar smaller scale might be that I want a nut and bolt, and I'd just specify the length, threadsize, etc and the model would retain that knowledge and the underlying connections (e.g. all the primitives or splines or whatever used to make the threads unioned to a cylinder, etc)
22:19.33 lg_ yes, it should still be allowed to influence and manipulate, but, for example, the bricks are only available in some certain sizes, that defined usual openings, all kinds of dimensions, construction details. it is a whole layer over the actual csg stuff happening
22:20.42 bjorkBSD lg have you ever used catia by any chance?
22:21.23 lg_ no, i think it is close to what i want
22:22.56 bjorkBSD fork up the dough :D
22:23.08 bjorkBSD or **** it and tell us what it's like.
22:23.16 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
22:24.23 lg_ bjorkbsd, are you from a archicture-related field?
22:24.57 lg_ i ask because i am curious about people using this kind of apps in architecture. most caad is much more primitive imho
22:26.29 brlcad invest dozens of thousands into catia and company or invest that money/time/interest by contributing to an open source CAD project ;)
22:27.29 lg_ i would prefer the second, while it is hard for someone who is not really good in writing code (i am actually an architect)
22:28.02 bjorkBSD not at all, lg_
22:28.10 bjorkBSD i'm from a "wow this is COOOL" field.
22:28.37 brlcad if that's not brl-cad, so be it, but it's a shame that so many are willing to dump so much money and time into commercial packages when there's clearly enough interest and talent to get something together
22:29.00 bjorkBSD i'm especially interested in the interface.
22:29.13 lg_ still i try to contribute by collecting information, promoting the idea etc. just set up a website to allow people to share their ideas on it (free-architecture.org).
22:29.16 brlcad all I know is that we're a couple decades of development ahead of the other open source "competition" and we still have a couple decades of dev-time catch-up to go
22:29.21 bjorkBSD but curse the paucity of coding skills!
22:29.51 lg_ bjorkbsd, what is wowsocool?
22:30.03 brlcad lg_: it's all appreciated ;) actually your architectural expertise alone is enough to warrant respect and be useful
22:30.28 brlcad no single project can cross domains without having consistent participation from the major CAD domains
22:31.37 bjorkBSD lg_ modeling mechanical components and watching mechanisms come to life until i can afford to create them.
22:32.00 brlcad right now the biggest void is a lack of developer involvement, though documentation, tutorials, and advertising (website, release notes, news, conferences) take up a huge amount of time too
22:32.22 lg_ i think if the brlcad people continue work on a really robust csg engine, it is the best they can do, as there are few implementations i know about. still, i would love to see some coordinated effort to allow to chain all these tools to form something more complete and useable. and take e.g. the load of developing viewers and guis from those working on the engin
22:32.56 lg_ bjorkBSD, ok, mechanics, I guess your are closer to the typical brlcad user profile than me than ;-)
22:34.08 matt_ezeki_230 brlcad: now i go away (to sleep because here in Italy it is 12:34 A.M. :-) ). If would you be so kind as to try the code in file README....you have my e-mail (file README again) but i'll be back here tomorrow. Bye and thanks a lot for your help!
22:34.21 brlcad lg_: brl-cad's CSG engine and raytrace engines is actually one of the oldest and best around -- better than just about every commercial iplementation as well from a robustness and performance perspective
22:34.41 bjorkBSD comparable to catia? :O
22:34.46 lg_ hey, matt_ezeki, good night, here in istanbul it's already 1.34 will be hard tomorrow morning
22:34.59 brlcad lg_: you're right though.. a coordinated effort is desparately needed and leveraging existing functionality
22:35.11 brlcad bjorkBSD: actually yes
22:35.15 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
22:35.22 bjorkBSD then we have a gold mine on our hands :-?
22:35.39 matt_ezeki_230 lg_: he he ! yes, will be hard :-)
22:35.41 brlcad brl-cad libraries were designed with large-models and performance in mind, primary focus has always been on analysis purposes
22:36.24 brlcad where it very much lacks is in the modeling interface side
22:36.29 bjorkBSD how did you become involved with brl-cad, brlcad ?
22:36.54 brlcad and support for brep/nurbs primitives.. that's one weak area in the engine
22:38.05 lg_ i have been so fed up with the fact that all the csg-engined I used in architecture led to geometry that was not suitable for any other editing after some booleans. so i appreciate a csg engine ;-)
22:38.08 brlcad bjorkBSD: anyone can become involved.. I became involved many years ago working under Mike Muuss (BRL-CAD's original architect)
22:38.51 brlcad lg_: are you familiar with where brl-cad comes from and what it is/was designed for?
22:38.53 lg_ brlcad, seams that you have been in the development for a while?
22:39.24 brlcad about 7 or so years now, lead developer
22:39.47 lg_ brlcad, yes, i think that is why its powerful, it is to create models for analysis, while many modelers and cad i used where for visualization or limited complexity
22:40.20 brlcad i was behind the pressure to make it an open source project, took several years and lots of effort .. to say the least
22:40.55 lg_ can imagine it was hard to make this move with an established project like brlcad
22:42.22 lg_ i follow the development of radiance, which was also open-sourced some years ago, after maybe 20 years of development, also controlled by governmental (and other) institutions. still, it is great that these things happened finally, so we can send a thank you know, because we can play around with all these nice toys ;-)
22:43.07 brlcad yeah, radiance is pretty cool .. some of the brl-cad devs used to work with them way back when
22:43.57 bjorkBSD hmmm.
22:44.39 brlcad difference there being radiance was somewhat lingering/abandoned so it was open source, whereas brl-cad continues to be actively used and developed but was open sourced to "give back" and spark expanded collaboration/development/etc
22:46.34 brlcad i've toyed with the idea of writing a radiance-compatible interface to brl-cad for a while myself.. or even implementing a new tracer based on brl-cad's raytrace library
22:46.54 brlcad infinitely doable, very cool stuff
22:47.16 lg_ well, i do not know the internals of radiance development over the time, but there is a lot of development around it, many projects forked, and a lot of commercial applications (most of the serious ones) are based on it. the problem is that is seams to be hard for new devs to join the core dev team
22:47.18 brlcad hard to stay focused on the modeler :)
22:47.36 bjorkBSD brlcad, i can read C to some extent, but when you move this stuff to c++ ...
22:47.40 bjorkBSD that'll be the end for me :(
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22:48.26 brlcad bjorkBSD: the core will likely always remain C .. most of the initial 300+ plugins are all C
22:48.32 lg_ yes, but i think an even cooler interface would be to the more general simulation environment esp-r, than i could use the solid model to do all kinds of thermal simulation, too, and still use the interface from esp-r to radiance ;-)
22:49.03 brlcad bjorkBSD: it's only the higher level logic that will be C++ and even that will be utilizing the C layers :)
22:49.40 brlcad lg_: that's the problem with CAD development in general.. it spans so many genre's it's hard to stay focused on just a few concepts and do them well :)
22:49.57 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
22:50.13 lg_ that is nice, it means i will see some examples how to call the brlcad libs from c++ ( i know a bit c++)
22:50.42 brlcad that's why the focus is on a "platform" for plugin-based development so it becomes more manageable to have isolated groups focus on their genre of expertise/interest
22:51.26 lg_ but, for the radiance interface, you would have to mesh all the geometry, as radiance supports no csg at all. and than you can also use the great (new) wavefront-obj support in radiance, so g2obj is all we need right now
22:52.09 brlcad something akin to eclipse for CAD mixed with a game, physics, and render engines :)
22:52.43 lg_ i am really curious about what you are doing there. will it be open-source, too, and can we lurk to the dev code soon? ;-9
22:52.46 brlcad lg_: we do the geometry meshing now for a variety of purposes.. half the exporters are mesh-only
22:53.24 brlcad the ADRT interface that was added to brl-cad a year or so ago is a high-performance triangle-only engine as well
22:53.31 lg_ cad-eclipse, i know a lot of people who dream about this idea (even if it may be sick to dream of cad)
22:53.50 brlcad twing created an interactive triangle-only raytracer and path tracer based around it
22:54.23 brlcad that's what made things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png possible
22:55.17 brlcad sticking CAD into Eclipse is just wrong .. there are fundamental lessons that can be learned from their project though
22:56.11 lg_ brlcad, for radiance, obj is great, the only point where a special exporter would make sense are primitives like spheres, cylinders etc which are supported better then meshing them. but in real models, these primitives are rare. cad in eclipse is nonsense, but the idea of a development framework with plug-ins is great
22:57.08 lg_ still loading the image, i am working on 56k-modem-speed right now :-(
22:57.52 brlcad correct me if i'm wrong but radiance is both an interface for rendering as well as a rendering system itself. it shouldn't be that much work to implement the radiance interface (so data files, procedural textures, geometry, etc work unmodified)
22:58.26 brlcad or even hook in the radiance renderer into some CAD system as a plugin ala how blender has various rendering methods exposed
22:59.03 brlcad lg_: eek.. 56k?! didn't know people still use those.. :)
22:59.52 lg_ should be possible, the core of radiance is available as a library. i am not sure how easy it is to use the different ways radiance optimizes rendering, as the octree-sorting etc.
23:00.23 lg_ there is even a clean and new c++-rewrite, that allows to access all functionality plus some extras from c++
23:00.43 brlcad i'd bet adrt outperforms radiance for full global illumination rendering
23:01.27 lg_ (yes, i still don't have a dsl line, cause the phone is registred on the owner of my flat, so i have to wait until she is doing all the paper work. so long i enjoy the good-old-times internet feeling)
23:03.01 lg_ (the radiance-rewrite is called radzilla, the author is Carsten Bauer, a physician and always open to good ideas, more info on http://www.cb-d.de/radzilla.html, if you want to spend your spare time ;-)
23:03.02 brlcad adrt was implemented based off of recent interactive raytracing research, some of the techniques presented at siggraph over the past 3 years or so only
23:03.28 lg_ ok, got the image, you render this interactively?
23:04.23 brlcad no no.. that was a full light transport simulation
23:04.57 brlcad took several days, 8 trillion rays, many million per second
23:05.16 lg_ ok, and the problem was the number of triangles?
23:06.01 brlcad saarbricken? not sure I've heard of them
23:06.28 lg_ saarbrucken (u-umlaut, in germany)
23:07.07 brlcad we (used in the singular sense of the dev that collaborated with them on ideas) worked with saarland .. names escaping me at the moment
23:07.46 lg_ yes, saarland is the state, saarbrucken the "capital"
23:07.58 lg_ http://www.openrt.de/
23:08.03 brlcad yeah, that's them
23:08.18 lg_ they have some nice projects, i think
23:08.19 brlcad slusalek
23:08.29 brlcad we interacted with them pretty extensively
23:09.14 lg_ did not know that. i never met, found out by a friend and followed a bit what they developed. now they seam to try making some money
23:09.28 brlcad adrt actually outperforms for some geometries (non-hardware implementation)
23:09.41 brlcad yeah, they are focused on selling the library
23:10.00 brlcad adrt is effectively an open source free version developed by "someone else" ;)
23:10.51 lg_ ;-) i have rendered quite large scenes in radiance by using instances, which allows gigantic geometry by sharing memory. but it is certainly not the renderer for those in need of speed.
23:10.59 lg_ will have a look at adrt
23:11.02 brlcad basically, an implementation of a lot of ingo wald's research
23:11.38 brlcad adrt's deficiencies are in it's polish, user interface is barely existant .. if you can't code, it's not really useable without a lot of hand-holding
23:12.33 lg_ i have an awful model, we are rendering on a 4node cluster for two months now to get 20 pctures 1600x1200. maybe adrt might be something if we ever try to get animations.
23:12.38 brlcad brl-cad's librt also has an implementation of shirley's photon mapping, but that is a tricky beast for solid models ..
23:13.27 lg_ ok, that is a field unknown to me, an optic effect that never (?) appears in architectural scales
23:13.30 brlcad adrt has a layer called isst (interactive shot selection tool) that is used for realtime raytracing of very large detailed models (full vehicles)
23:13.47 brlcad that obtains about 20-30fps on a 4 node cluster
23:13.55 lg_ (while i am not sure if this is really true when i think of a dome covered by specular material)
23:14.52 lg_ the model i am talking about is a model of the whole interior of the hagia sophia, with a resolution down to 1x1 cm
23:15.25 brlcad a volumetric geometry?
23:15.36 brlcad or it is also facetized?
23:15.58 lg_ we cannot process it in any cad, we hold a directory tree of geometry files and assemble the model only during the rendering. i once converted it to a vrml and got a 3GB file...
23:16.22 lg_ it is not volumetric, it is for radiance, only triangles and polygons
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23:16.54 brlcad 3GB isn't that large for us, especially if that's the vrml
23:17.33 brlcad that should easily fit in core
23:17.39 lg_ the most of the geometry is held in obj and dxf files. i could not browse it at least, for interactive navigation
23:17.59 lg_ i should try it?
23:18.11 brlcad oh i believe you.. most CAD systems fall apart on large models :)
23:18.53 brlcad at least when trying to bring it all up, that's where we generally do much much better assuming the model will at least fit in memory
23:19.06 lg_ what kind of input interface could i use? if i have to access it from an own application, what language bindings do exist, what geometry formats are already supported? got curious
23:19.46 brlcad depends if you'd want to view it with adrt or librt .. the latter has much more tool support, adrt is going to be much faster for triangles
23:20.12 lg_ most cad systems i know have some kind of magic limit for geomety size / memory ;-)
23:20.19 brlcad there isn't an obj importer (only an exporter) though.. so some processing would be needed
23:20.46 lg_ the idea was to have adtr for setting up a way to animate the whole scene
23:20.48 brlcad would be trivial to add one, just nobody has needed it yet
23:20.59 lg_ (which is impossible in radiance now)
23:21.07 bjorkBSD brlcad, were you the one who mentioned a playstation/xbox keypad interface?
23:21.13 lg_ what is supported?
23:21.30 brlcad once it's in brl-cad's .g format, getting it to adrt is pretty trivial -- otherwise a direct dump to adrt format is possible as well (it's pretty simple raw format)
23:21.45 lg_ don't tell me you are running brlcad on a playstation? ;-)
23:21.55 lg_ ok, i can get it into brl-cad format
23:22.02 brlcad bjorkBSD: i'm not sure.. doesn't sound familiary
23:22.27 brlcad lg_: do you have brl-cad installed now?
23:22.33 bjorkBSD eh. a video games interface, basically.
23:22.47 bjorkBSD where all you have is the control pad for interacting with it.
23:23.04 brlcad lg_: if you do, ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g are the importers
23:23.22 lg_ bjorkBSD, i am wondering if a psp3 will be my next linux installation;-) brlcad, yes of course, i am playing with it, i tested the iges-interface so far
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23:23.34 brlcad g-* are the exporters as well as asc2g and g2asc for the ascii intermediate format
23:24.50 brlcad most common importers probably being iges, vrml, dxf, off, ply, and stl
23:25.10 brlcad there is a binary export plugin for Pro/Engineer if you happen to have that
23:25.31 lg_ yes, i would have liked an obj importer, but iges is nice as i can export natively from the modelers
23:25.41 lg_ i have most of the model in formz
23:25.43 brlcad and a Unigraphics exporter as well, though I haven't compiled that in ages
23:26.09 lg_ eh, does the vrml-importer support the old vrml1?
23:26.33 brlcad it used to
23:26.35 brlcad :)
23:27.10 lg_ hm, there is no vrml-g or anything similar
23:27.11 brlcad it was updated to vrml 2.0 several years ago without retaining backwards support (don't ask me why..)
23:27.31 brlcad ahh, that's right.. i mean the exporter
23:27.57 bjorkBSD logo anyone?
23:28.02 brlcad vrml is one of the other bastard few importers that hadn't been written yet
23:28.13 lg_ than maybe the reason was to get rid of all the vrml-1 related support questions.
23:28.13 bjorkBSD repeat 4 [fd 100 left 90] :D
23:28.16 lg_ logo?
23:28.19 brlcad trivial format, just one more of those things that someone could spend a week or two on
23:28.43 brlcad don't generally get CAD solid models in vrml format :)
23:28.47 bjorkBSD ANCIENT lisp dialect and turtle geometry platform
23:29.04 lg_ yes, i remember, bjork...
23:29.06 lg_ ;-)
23:29.12 bjorkBSD fun stuff aye?
23:29.53 lg_ ok folks, i think my boss will kick me out of the office tomorrow when he finds me sleeping there
23:30.00 brlcad heh
23:30.09 lg_ it is half past three (in the morning) here!
23:30.11 brlcad lg_: good talking to you, hope to see you around more often ;)
23:30.17 brlcad where abouts is here?
23:30.22 bjorkBSD turkey!
23:30.38 lg_ certainly, you have been great help. i am in istanbul, turkey
23:30.40 brlcad ~tr
23:30.42 ibot turkish is #turklug, or #debian.tr, or trke yardm iin #debian.tr
23:30.48 brlcad so it is
23:30.58 bjorkBSD ~ibot
23:31.07 bjorkBSD oh fine don't talk to me [-(
23:31.11 bjorkBSD ~ibot_
23:31.12 ibot well, ibot_ is not me
23:31.18 lg_ yes, in fact i am german, but i am living here
23:31.26 brlcad lg_: aha
23:31.32 lg_ so good night / morning!
23:31.35 brlcad ciao!
23:31.43 brlcad ~x en de good night!
23:31.47 bjorkBSD is ibot a bot?
23:31.56 lg_ ;-)
23:31.57 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
23:32.02 lg_ multilingual bot...
23:32.21 bjorkBSD ~brl-cad
23:32.22 ibot it has been said that brl-cad is a powerful constructive solid geometry solid modeling system that includes an interactive geometry editor, ray tracing support for rendering and geometric analysis, network distributed framebuffer support, image and signal-processing tools.
23:32.27 lg_ we say iyi aksamlar here, by the way
23:32.30 bjorkBSD <PROTECTED>
23:32.58 brlcad lg_: is that turkish?
23:33.02 lg_ yes
23:33.32 lg_ at least it should be, i am still learning ;-) and it is difficult in irc because all the special characters disappear
23:33.38 brlcad bueno, pues.. iyi aksamlar ;)
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23:34.03 lg_ great, cu, and thanks for help and nice talk
23:34.08 lg_ lars
23:34.16 *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@mstr195175-16578.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr)
23:34.47 bjorkBSD brlcad, do you ever use a lightpen or tablet with brlcad?
23:34.59 bjorkBSD seems they're very uncommon.
23:36.30 brlcad actually just purchased a tablet to test with brl-cad, should be here next week
23:37.16 bjorkBSD how much did it cost?
23:39.07 brlcad not much 100-150 or something
23:40.20 bjorkBSD definitely not as cheap as a keyboard and mouse :D
23:41.26 bjorkBSD the game industry ... i'd love to take a good look at spore sometime.
23:58.26 ``Erik neat
23:58.29 ``Erik wacom?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060725

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060725

21:30.39 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
21:30.40 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
22:00.48 *** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@ip10.fa1-0-2.occ.iinet.com)
22:02.48 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304940.sympatico.ca)
22:36.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: Modify Kaleido to output BRL-CAD geometry ( http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/ )
22:38.43 fenn yikes
22:41.29 brlcad yikes?
22:41.42 fenn i'm trying to imagine some possible use for kaleido
22:41.44 brlcad that'd be a fun simple little project :)
22:42.57 brlcad not all modeling has to be practical.. you can make some pretty beautiful shapes ;)
22:43.19 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_dirhombicosidodecahedron
22:43.53 brlcad pretty darn complex geometry if you add all the actual vertices as little spheres and connecting edges and cylinders
22:45.10 brlcad but pretty simple as a union of the basic overlapping shapes
22:46.12 fenn would make a cool paper lantern
22:49.00 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_polytope#Polytopes_in_nature
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23:18.11 IriX64 voila... BRL-CAD compiled by and running on CYGWIN_NT
23:19.04 IriX64 let me bring it up again, and you can verify with me that all the bits and pieces are there.
23:20.11 IriX64 ./mged=initializing and backgrounding please wait...
23:20.20 IriX64 well?
23:20.39 IriX64 mged command window and graphics window up.
23:22.27 IriX64 prim.g raytracing.
23:22.34 IriX64 sweet
23:23.35 IriX64 nice shape, but will you respect me in the morning? :)
23:23.56 IriX64 want a paste of the shot?
23:25.15 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 9.547 sec, elapsed = 61.606 sec
23:25.15 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
23:25.15 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
23:25.15 IriX64 Additional mem=1462272., #malloc=2740, #free=2682, #realloc=695 (58 retained)
23:25.15 IriX64 4294398 solid/ray intersections: 2900070 hits + 1394328 miss
23:25.15 IriX64 pruned 67.5%: 0 model RPP, 1686049 dups skipped, 890136 solid RPP
23:25.17 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 9.55 sec = 49869.07 pixels/sec
23:25.19 IriX64 Frame 0: 1080471 rays in 9.55 sec = 113173.88 rays/sec (RTFM)
23:25.21 IriX64 Frame 0: 1080471 rays in 9.55 sec = 113173.88 rays/CPU_sec
23:25.23 IriX64 Frame 0: 1080471 rays in 61.61 sec = 17538.41 rays/sec (wallclock)
23:25.25 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
23:25.45 IriX64 now i'll probably get kicked.
23:27.03 IriX64 you have this capability in linuxbrlcad.zip and the source to it in brlcad-10.0.0.bz2.... enjoy.
23:27.30 IriX64 those screenshots are *my system at work.
23:27.50 IriX64 especially the one rendering havoc.
23:28.06 fenn you know we cant see any screenshots right?
23:28.27 IriX64 i uploaded them to ftp.brlcad.org.
23:28.37 IriX64 shot?.jpg
23:30.12 IriX64 back to work on blargh.com :)
23:32.50 IriX64 i'll be back to torment you with silence later on ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060726

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060726

00:30.09 brlcad if anyone *really* wants to see what screenshot images he was talking about: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/images/
02:27.36 ``Erik at least he's using bx instead of mirc...
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03:14.12 IriX64 bjorkBSD: remember those version numbers? Have you caught up yet? :)
03:57.53 bjorkBSD you're compiling for different platforms?
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15:27.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Minor mods of a few comments.
15:28.03 brlcad hmm
15:29.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: Added the viewDir command.
15:34.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor shot hack for performance, with a tweaked up "final step", this is about 104x faster on my test case
15:37.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Change the conditional from <= to < in a few places to prevent indexing to far.
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15:53.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Add method/wrapper for the viewDir command.
15:55.45 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Add viewDir method. Add methods to support the scale.
15:57.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Dm.tcl Display.tcl): Add support for displaying a scale.
16:00.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Add help for the viewDir command.
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16:09.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added support for displaying a scale in the geometry window. Added support for dynamically adding methods to the Archer class.
16:19.53 *** join/#brlcad jscott (i=johnscot@conference/oscon/session)
16:24.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: Add drawScale command.
16:28.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: Add Command and Utility to SUBDIRS.
16:43.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
16:43.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Initial plot impl.
16:43.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Removed the 16pt stub (use ell's instead).
16:43.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Minor indentation cleanup.
17:35.23 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303304.sympatico.ca)
17:36.26 IriX64 Hilarious, my cross-compiler produced a ymp brlcad, now how the hell do I test it. :)
17:36.57 brlcad look for a virtual machine?
17:37.11 brlcad the history of computing project might support them (though I don't recall seeing them)
17:37.26 IriX64 we've had this discussion, vmware doesn't cut it for that. :)
17:37.42 brlcad hmm?
17:37.52 brlcad no.. i mean a simulation virtual machine
17:38.17 brlcad vmware is only x86 iirc anyways.. you'd need one that emulates cray
17:38.49 IriX64 simulate unicos?
17:40.17 IriX64 i'll build a sparc64 build next :)
17:40.17 IriX64 what os do you recommend? sunos or solaris64?
17:40.53 IriX64 doubt i'll find any takers, i'm a complete unknown in the industry.
17:42.49 ``Erik simh ?
17:43.16 IriX64 ``Erik, i'm restricted to x86.
17:43.36 IriX64 on what platform?
17:43.58 ``Erik if you don't have the hardware or emu's to test a 'cross platform build', why bother? you're just cooking time and cpu for something that probably isn't right...
17:44.13 ``Erik why not take a look at the tracker and see if there's something useful you can do?
17:44.18 ``Erik :)
17:44.21 IriX64 hah prove it isn't right. :)
17:44.46 IriX64 sigh i suppose the burden of proof lies with me though.
17:44.55 brlcad simh is pretty cool
17:45.03 brlcad but I don't think they do cray hardware iirc
17:45.15 IriX64 short description please, ive honestly never heard of it.
17:45.15 ``Erik I don't remember seeing 'em, but I was after the pdps
17:45.21 ``Erik heh, lisp 1.5 on a pdp1, awesome :D
17:45.39 ``Erik irix64: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
17:45.49 IriX64 pdp0 :)
17:45.58 IriX64 thankyou.
17:46.00 brlcad i'd love to integrate simh as part of the testing for the benchmark suite numbers
17:46.19 ``Erik opposed to removing cruft for machines no one uses anymore? :D *duck*
17:46.27 brlcad need to compute sphflake on something that'll give a vgr of 1
17:46.41 IriX64 btw i can cross to pdp11 or vaxen.
17:46.52 ``Erik there's a sysV image for pdp11 on simh's 'extras' page
17:47.05 brlcad more fun to install netbsd
17:47.06 ``Erik :>
17:47.20 ``Erik I tried to get it running, but I don't think I was wiring the console right
17:47.28 ``Erik ooh, v6 and v7, too
17:47.51 ``Erik cp/m? ;)
17:47.54 brlcad i got it running, played with it for a couple weeks -- had to change some code to get it to behave though, networking stuff iirc
17:47.55 IriX64 fine point soldering iron mode engaged ;)
17:48.18 IriX64 no dont do the z80, its not in config.sub.
17:48.35 ``Erik my first machine ran cp/m on a z80 chip.... coleco adam, yo
17:48.56 brlcad getting netbsd in there was quite a feat -- attached the iso as a disk image to simh, dd'd the raw device in simh to get an internal file that I was then able to mount
17:49.12 ``Erik hah
17:49.21 ``Erik on which machine?
17:49.25 ``Erik the pdp11?
17:49.39 IriX64 heh mine was called xor.
17:49.50 brlcad the vax iirc
17:49.55 IriX64 superbrain too i played with.
17:50.22 IriX64 ohio scientific, man talk about strange.
17:50.44 ``Erik there's a pre-existing netbsd for vax, and a 4.3bsd, dude...
17:51.48 ``Erik <-- kinda surprised plot doesn't have access to soltab info
17:52.11 IriX64 will this canonicalize --build=sparc64-sun-solaris64 ?
17:52.45 ``Erik you probably want --target=, and you have to make sure your CC points to the right cross-compiler...
17:52.59 IriX64 its automatic.
17:53.22 IriX64 set build if a xcompiler is detected it wioll be used.
17:53.29 IriX64 will too.
17:53.50 ``Erik ... as long as the crosscompiler is the first thing in the search list or CC is set to it...
17:54.19 IriX64 i pasted a config summary here, got my knucles rapped, forget what i was building there though :)
17:54.34 IriX64 cc is set to cassie.exe man.
17:54.38 ``Erik $ ./config.guess
17:54.38 ``Erik sparc-sun-solaris2.8
17:54.51 IriX64 solaris64
17:55.26 IriX64 ld is set to cassield.exe :)
17:55.48 IriX64 hand crafted.
17:55.57 ``Erik aren't they all?
17:56.16 IriX64 there now to start makeing it.
17:57.28 IriX64 and in about an hour i'll have some code to inspect.
17:57.47 IriX64 hexedit rules :)
17:58.20 ``Erik od, yo
17:58.48 IriX64 having a problem with crtsuff.c
17:59.54 IriX64 multiple definition of __do_sjlj_init but only when i'm building shared libraries, how odd.
18:00.15 brlcad ``Erik: which "plot"?
18:04.09 IriX64 haha dire straits - money for nothing.
18:06.02 IriX64 ValarQ thank you for pointing me to irssi.
18:14.00 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
18:20.22 ``Erik the librt/g_xxx.c rt_xxx_plot.c func
18:21.00 ``Erik for mged wireframe
18:32.46 IriX64 errr, bjorkBSD, just which build of BRL-CAD are you playing with?
18:40.02 IriX64 bjorkBSD: shot6.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org to show you why my version number is different than yours. :)
18:41.20 IriX64 course i just renamed gcc.exe to cassie.exe :)
18:48.50 IriX64 in geometry browser double click on the name of an object (not the folder icon but the actual name) does an mged e.
18:53.55 IriX64 shot7.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org shows it in operation.
18:56.00 IriX64 gotta move my system back downstairs, see youall later.
18:56.20 brlcad ``Erik: that's because you have to invoke rt_prep() to compute the soltabs.. mged doesn't (currently) prep anything, only the tracers do
19:12.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Check-in for Doug. Mods to remember the last directory searcher for a database. Added more menu entries for transparency.
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22:03.54 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4303304.sympatico.ca)
22:07.04 IriX64 this is good, but why on earth would anybody need to be on multiple networks at once? Are people built that multi-tasking capable? :)
22:18.16 ``Erik networks as in irc networks?
22:18.34 ``Erik I'm on 3... this pos, the lame gnome one, and the one true irc net, efnet...
22:25.16 fenn i am capable of simultaneously filling many networks of IRC chatrooms with mindless drivel
22:25.21 IriX64 with the same client? :)
22:26.21 fenn no, my drivel-generating circuitry is powered by a massively parallel multiprocessor core
22:27.20 IriX64 massivly... and i'm lost ;)
22:28.30 fenn do not despair, lowly human
22:29.47 IriX64 CCR anyone?
22:31.01 IriX64 Come, CCR = Credence ClearWater Revival. :)
22:33.12 IriX64 sigh ... am i the only one who likes Opera? ;)
22:35.07 IriX64 pretensious viloence? Alains... get real.
22:35.32 IriX64 errr Alanis.
22:37.20 IriX64 well breaks over, must return to that which I call work and everybody else calls nonsense.
22:38.23 IriX64 before I go tho, did anybody look at those screen shots?
22:39.47 IriX64 l8r, not too much l8r but l8r, guys and gals.
23:09.46 ``Erik ... some folk are... special.
23:10.18 ``Erik how could anyone NOT know ccr?
23:10.37 ``Erik I mean, shit, I even play a few of their songs on guitar, and I'm a metal/grunge fucker :)
23:40.08 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:40.08 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060727

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060727

00:36.43 *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-68-251-149-137.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
01:26.53 Twingy when do you think we will get parallels
01:27.00 Twingy I plan to put 5 partitions on mine
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03:45.40 IriX64 ``Erik: finally finished the mod to the Hyper-Transport circuit.
03:46.22 IriX64 :)
03:47.13 IriX64 Celine Dionne, Falling into you albumn, don't leave home without it.
04:01.36 IriX64 mmm should have put fbclear in a different place.
04:03.06 IriX64 dual code model works.
04:11.51 IriX64 mooooo ;)
04:51.18 IriX64 must tend to that hyper transport, ciao
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15:26.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code for loading Core plugins
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19:28.34 IriX64 urrrr :)
19:28.44 brlcad brrr
19:29.02 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
19:29.07 IriX64 heh :)
19:30.02 IriX64 needed too
19:36.15 IriX64 urf... how many networks can irssi handle?
19:39.42 brlcad not limited
19:39.50 brlcad as many as you specify
19:45.49 IriX64 i see that.
19:45.54 ``Erik not more than 64k on ipv4, though
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19:47.47 IriX64 64k !!??!!
19:48.06 IriX64 who in their right mind ... :)
19:59.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: rename the data dir variable from documentation to plugins to reflect usage intent; add Core to the list of traversal dirs
20:02.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (Command/README Core/README Utility/README): add simple initial README file to describe the intended purpose of this directory (i'm guessing here)
20:09.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (Utility/Makefile.am Command/Makefile.am Core/Makefile.am): initial Makefile.am file to create this directory as part of the install hierarchy, installing the README as a bit of trivial documentation.
20:25.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate Makefiles for the src/archer/plugins/Commands Core and Utility directories
21:12.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: oop, readd Commands, Core, and Utility directories
23:04.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: there's the culprit, the files are in plugins, not here..
23:21.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (4 files in 2 dirs): bah, named the directory incorrectly .. files moved from Command to Commands directory
23:23.41 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: directory renamed from Command to Commands
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060728

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060728

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01:38.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: add a tidbit on some of the humorous incorrect pronounciations that have been overheard as well as an explanation of where the name BRL-CAD comes from
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02:39.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl pkgIndex.tcl tclIndex): look for commands in the plugin 'Commands' directory instead of 'Command' to be consistent with 'Wizards'
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02:59.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/pkgIndex.tcl: revert the inadvertent loss of the Archer package
03:10.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: go ahead and check for valid parameters to fb_refresh even if this isn't IF_X
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03:13.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ws
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03:39.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (20 files in 3 dirs):
03:39.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: move the Pro/Engineer plugin from misc/pro-engineer to src/external/ProEngineer.
03:39.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the new src/external directory is intended for all of the codes that are written
03:39.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: to work with and link against external packages (often as a plugin to said
03:39.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: external package)
03:42.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: traverse into src/external for all builds since there may be something to build in there if it was enabled
03:44.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: misc/pro-engineer was moved to src/external so update the output Makefiles accordingly as well as the new src/external/Makefile and the plugin resource files
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03:56.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: describe the contents of this directory and its intent
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03:58.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: distribute the new README as part of the source dist (oh yeah, the README also includes details on the Pro/Engineer plugin for starters)
04:01.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add some additional pro/engineer enable aliases
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14:48.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): moved the Unigraphics importer from src/conv/unigraphics to src/external/Unigraphics since it requires the external UGOPEN library api.
14:49.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: the unigraphics directory is no longer stashed here, it moved to src/external/Unigraphics
14:50.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: add Unigraphics to the subdirectory list, moved over from src/conv/unigraphics to here since it relies on the external UGOPEN api/libraries
14:51.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: src/conv/unigraphics was moved to src/external/Unigraphics, so update the corresponding Makefile generation
14:54.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: include a blurb about the Unigraphics/NX importer.
15:01.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add configuration options supporting the Unigraphics importer, providing the BUILD_UG symbol if it is to be compiled (used in src/external)
15:05.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/.cvsignore: oop, forgot to add the .cvsignore file moved from misc/pro-engineer. add it.
18:16.34 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304467.sympatico.ca)
18:18.13 IriX64 pleasure to meet you all.
18:20.32 IriX64 is ftp.brlcad.org maintained by you people?
18:22.46 IriX64 urrr theres a skunk in the house.
18:26.40 IriX64 the geometry editor is quite good.
18:27.06 IriX64 err browser.
18:28.44 IriX64 terra.g loads but when trying to display it crashes.
18:29.56 IriX64 null mapped bu-pointer line 3135 but i forget the filname might have been g-disp..
18:34.02 IriX64 $ ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file pointer, file g_dsp.c, line 3135
18:46.48 IriX64 would you like a paste of my current Shot: ?
18:47.54 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 4.938 sec, elapsed = 194.606 sec
18:47.54 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:47.55 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:47.55 IriX64 Additional mem=1482752., #malloc=795, #free=706, #realloc=17 (89 retained)
18:47.55 IriX64 3224618 solid/ray intersections: 891704 hits + 2332914 miss
18:47.55 IriX64 pruned 27.7%: 306831 model RPP, 1824609 dups skipped, 736889 solid RPP
18:47.57 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 4.94 sec = 96415.55 pixels/sec
18:47.59 IriX64 Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:48.01 IriX64 Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/CPU_sec
18:48.03 IriX64 Frame 0: 659931 rays in 194.61 sec = 3391.11 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:48.05 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
18:48.31 IriX64 mged> i took your silence as a yes.
18:48.35 IriX64 :)
18:49.28 IriX64 RTFM = Real Time Frame Measurement? ;)
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18:51.52 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 4.938 sec, elapsed = 194.606 sec
18:51.52 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:51.52 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:51.53 IriX64 Additional mem=1482752., #malloc=795, #free=706, #realloc=17 (89 retained)
18:51.53 IriX64 3224618 solid/ray intersections: 891704 hits + 2332914 miss
18:51.55 IriX64 pruned 27.7%: 306831 model RPP, 1824609 dups skipped, 736889 solid RPP
18:51.57 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 4.94 sec = 96415.55 pixels/sec
18:51.59 IriX64 Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:52.01 IriX64 Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/CPU_sec
18:52.03 IriX64 Frame 0: 659931 rays in 194.61 sec = 3391.11 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:52.05 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
18:52.07 IriX64 mged> urgggh sorry.
18:56.08 IriX64 mged> Building Photon Map:
18:56.09 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:56.09 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:56.09 IriX64 mged>
18:56.09 IriX64 HitGB: 16384,3708
18:56.09 IriX64 Scale Factor: 227.108
18:56.11 IriX64 EPL: 2936811, Adjusted EPL: 2394819
18:56.13 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:56.15 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:58.30 IriX64 mged> /me wonders how long this will take.
18:58.37 IriX64 err
18:59.58 ValarQ IriX64: still got pasting problems?
19:00.36 IriX64 yeah, finally figured it out though i think.
19:01.00 IriX64 the two environments insist on exclusicve clipboard :)
19:03.50 IriX64 when this is done, gonna try my latest build.
19:05.05 IriX64 aborted it, installing now im an impatient little sot :)
19:17.57 siggraph at 3k rays/sec wallclock, photon mapping would take way way too long
19:18.08 IriX64 ray tracing with photon mapping now.
19:18.23 IriX64 we'll see.
19:19.18 siggraph something still really wrong with your performance numbers .. the rtfm and wallclock should be within at least 10% of each other
19:19.40 IriX64 shouldn't have visualized the irradience cache, this is gonna take a while.
19:19.57 siggraph has it even said 10% progress yet? :)
19:20.20 IriX64 overlaps in havoc cluters the output area.
19:20.24 siggraph it gives progress numbers, and it WILL take at least 10 times as long as rt to run unless you pick the worst settings
19:20.43 IriX64 did slap me quick :)
19:21.54 IriX64 OVERLAP1: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_bldroot101/r.bld101
19:21.54 IriX64 OVERLAP2: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_spinatch101/r.rot140
19:21.54 IriX64 OVERLAPa: dist=(1602.56,1602.56) isol=s.rot141.i osol=s.rot141
19:21.54 IriX64 OVERLAPb: depth 0.00312mm at (11525.2, -686.324, 2993.31) x0 y0 lvl0
19:21.54 IriX64 (overlaps omitted)
19:21.54 IriX64 OVERLAP1: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_bldroot101/r.bld101
19:21.56 IriX64 OVERLAP2: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_spinatch101/r.rot140
19:21.58 IriX64 OVERLAPa: dist=(3911.53,3911.53) isol=s.rot141.i osol=s.rot141
19:22.05 IriX64 thats whats going on.
19:22.26 IriX64 heh sorry.
19:22.33 siggraph feel free to fix them and submit an updaated havoc.g
19:22.49 IriX64 all right if you fix april.g ;)
19:23.10 siggraph i'd send you something like april.g if you did that
19:23.39 IriX64 im lousy at cadding, use other peoples work to do my testing.
19:24.22 IriX64 irradiance cache progress 50%
19:24.26 siggraph fixing overlaps is pretty easy .. you run rtcheck and it'll highlight the overlapping areas -- outputs a list of the geometry pairs too
19:24.45 siggraph usually a simple matter of moving one object ever so slightly or subtracting one from the other
19:24.58 siggraph the one you pasted overlaps by just 0.00312mm
19:25.05 IriX64 why not use the overlap tool ?
19:25.26 siggraph could use that too
19:25.35 IriX64 smokeity smoke time bbiab.
19:26.19 siggraph woo.. new macbook pro has a VGR count of roughly 4800k... nice..
19:26.29 siggraph s/00k/00/
19:35.09 ``Erik o.O
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20:25.14 IriX64 well it did it.
20:26.41 IriX64 what are you expecting another paste? :)
20:27.06 IriX64 my paste buffer runneth over :)
20:28.07 IriX64 siggraph: havoc.g your effort?
20:34.07 IriX64 no treads on the tires, just like the deauce and a half :)
20:44.07 IriX64 sweet s zoomed view, lets try a rotated view.
20:45.37 IriX64 she's showing me her underbelly :)
20:49.48 IriX64 would be too hard to paste this into the channel, but if anybody wants a screen shot ill supply.
20:55.21 IriX64 ok ive played with 5-click long enough time to buy the little gem, ill be away for a bit.
21:05.03 IriX64 there legally mine.
21:30.35 IriX64 bbiab
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22:01.13 *** join/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk)
22:01.19 boemann Hi there
22:01.35 boemann a quick question not really related to brl
22:02.11 boemann Are homogenous coordinates need internally in a cad application?
22:02.39 boemann or will x,y,z do for storage and manipulation
22:13.00 boemann never mind - stupid question of course they are
22:13.34 *** part/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk)
22:38.38 IriX64 mmm a monolouge ;)
22:47.01 IriX64 | bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) (Network)
22:47.01 IriX64 3 ircname : bjork whoElse?
22:47.01 IriX64 | channels : ##opera ##freebsd #openlaszlo #brlcad #r
22:47.01 IriX64 3 server : irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/)
22:47.06 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:47.19 IriX64 #opera?
22:47.56 IriX64 werks ;)
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22:50.57 IriX64 [ctcp(bjorkBSD)] VERSION
22:50.57 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:50.57 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:50.57 IriX64 [ctcp(IriX64)] VERSION
22:50.57 IriX64 >>> IriX64 [n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304467.sympatico.ca] requested VERSION
22:50.57 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:50.59 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:51.01 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:51.22 IriX64 bjorkBSD wheres you get the xchat source?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060729

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060729

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04:36.24 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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05:15.47 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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18:48.53 bryan_ hello
18:49.16 bryan_ I have read in a few places about the new "archer" interface.
18:49.29 bryan_ What is the purpose of this GUI?
18:49.45 siggraph hello bryan_
18:49.57 bryan_ it doesn't run on my linux pc, and it looks like it might be developed on win32 first
18:50.10 bryan_ do you know anything about this sig?
18:50.14 ``Erik it was
18:50.22 siggraph it was, though it only needs a few tweaks for linux
18:50.26 bryan_ ok.
18:50.29 siggraph it also works on linux
18:50.32 bryan_ well what is it?
18:50.37 siggraph doesn't work on os x yet (minor issue)
18:50.58 bryan_ It throws errors including but not limited to can't find package blt
18:51.01 siggraph it's basically the beginning of a new modeler, written using much of mged as a foundation
18:51.14 bryan_ that's what i figured looking at the code
18:51.17 ``Erik heh
18:51.24 bryan_ but couldn't get it to run properly
18:51.24 siggraph yeah, the package search for blt is not working right, have to manually set some things for it to find blt
18:51.34 bryan_ hmm
18:51.45 bryan_ I have installed blt, but have no experience with tcl
18:51.52 siggraph basically, if you're at all familiar with mged, it's mged with an interface that sucks less *ss
18:51.57 bryan_ how does one set this up to work?
18:52.08 bryan_ i was hoping that was what it was
18:52.15 siggraph howdy ``Erik .. guess where i'm at :)
18:52.24 bryan_ I have been kisking around the idea of writing such a thing
18:52.27 bryan_ kicking
18:52.42 siggraph ahh
18:53.07 bryan_ i have used proe, soliddge, unigraphics, solidworks, etc and they are all getting nice GUIs
18:53.13 ``Erik bitch
18:53.41 siggraph it's not exactly simple to explain how to get it working beyond "it's not ready for linux just quite yet (couple days/weeks)" .. otherwise it's a matter of tcl search path configuration
18:53.42 bryan_ and brlcad seems to be powerful, but about 5 years behing in the usability category
18:53.50 ``Erik ohyeah, and kick lee in the butt for me, too
18:53.52 siggraph heh 5 years
18:53.55 ``Erik ass kickings for everyone.
18:53.55 siggraph that's being generous
18:54.14 ``Erik tim and chuck, too
18:54.15 ``Erik yo
18:54.17 ``Erik :/
18:54.20 bryan_ well it's about on par with proe 2000 so call it 7 years
18:54.22 ``Erik I'm grousy and unhappy.
18:54.24 siggraph ``Erik: I'll convery the information while I go bask in the hot tub.. hold on
18:54.31 ``Erik ...
18:54.33 ``Erik 'fucker
18:54.35 siggraph hehe
18:55.01 siggraph bryan_: yeah, the features are definitely there .. there's a solid 100+ manyears of development effort invested
18:55.02 ``Erik :>
18:55.04 bryan_ i'm new here, could I opt out of the ass kickings?
18:55.16 bryan_ I can see that
18:55.42 bryan_ I'm laid up with an achilles tear and I've been browsing the source for mged
18:55.51 siggraph bryan_: he's just bitter because several of the devs are up at the annual ACM Siggraph conference and he's not
18:55.59 bryan_ ah
18:56.10 bryan_ well it beats being stuck on a sofa
18:56.11 siggraph it's a rather fun conference to say the least
18:56.17 bryan_ like I am
18:56.23 siggraph heh
18:56.29 ``Erik bryan: if you're not one of the few folk who get paychecks from teh same place as me, but DID get to go to siggraph this year, you are exempt.
18:56.57 bryan_ so the tcl search paths ought to be explained on the tcl site?
18:57.11 ``Erik fucking stupid motherfucking fucking goddamn fucking ...
18:57.17 ``Erik mebbe next year I'll present there, hah.
18:57.18 ``Erik :(
18:57.20 ``Erik fuk
18:57.23 ``Erik FUX
18:57.39 ``Erik O.o
18:57.49 ``Erik *pissed*
18:57.58 ``Erik almost as much as the fucking bsdcan episode
18:58.05 ``Erik oooohhhhh I was fucking pissed
18:58.05 siggraph innovate that metaball, make it sweet, write a paper
18:58.11 ``Erik that's the plan.
18:58.28 ``Erik I've yet to find anything approaching a reasonable bounding sphere for a metaball.
18:58.50 siggraph bryan_: yes, it is.. though I could probably condense it all if you wait a little bit for me to look at the code
18:59.20 siggraph probably just a matter of copying the blt directory into a path that is already being searched will be the easiest
18:59.32 ``Erik thanks for the book, btw... couldn't find a name in it... if ya do that, you probably should at LEAST slap a postit on it...
18:59.32 ``Erik :)
18:59.36 bryan_ i'll try that
18:59.43 ``Erik otherwise, your library will dwindle ;)
18:59.48 siggraph heh
18:59.51 siggraph it's a great book
19:00.05 ``Erik it's a tiny book, but it looks reasonably dense
19:00.09 siggraph pretty dense on the math and sparse on the explanations, but good summary
19:00.54 ``Erik I've had good math-heavy discussions with several math doctorates recently, if I NEED help groking the math, I have people to lean on :)
19:00.59 siggraph plus it's got everything in context with the "big picture", so you can see what else has been done
19:01.26 siggraph how metaballs relate to blending in general for example
19:01.35 ``Erik the latest wench happens to irc as well and intro'd me to a math phd whom I chattered with at lenght, he's "bored" and looking for mental exercises, heh
19:01.51 ``Erik (the latest wench is finishing up a masters in math, to boot)
19:02.06 ``Erik irritating that she's like 6mo younger than me and ahead of me on ed :/
19:02.08 ``Erik :D
19:16.50 siggraph bryan_: try "export ARCHER_HOME=/usr/brlcad" then run archer again
19:16.55 siggraph that alone just might do the trick
19:17.46 ``Erik hah... PROG_HOME is so... archaic.
19:18.00 bryan_ ok
19:18.21 ``Erik writing yesteryears software tomorrow.
19:18.22 ``Erik :(
19:19.12 ``Erik and seriously, dude, pimpslap lee for me :) the bitch is chillin' at fucking siggraph all glossyeyed and pimp promo shit, meanwhile the folk who could BENEFIT are sitting at home being grousy :D
19:19.14 ``Erik *duck*
19:19.19 bryan_ nah still get the error message
19:20.07 ``Erik is there anything in the paperwork on implicit surfaces?
19:20.38 ``Erik I mean, the $1500 to send me there would probably save more than 10k of my time, hah.
19:20.38 ``Erik :(*
19:20.45 ``Erik *grouse*
19:20.54 ``Erik stupid fucking gov't
19:20.56 ``Erik *shakes fist**
19:22.11 ``Erik <-- angry, and drinkin', so doubly angry :D
19:26.05 siggraph evidently so
19:26.21 siggraph (from the Siggraph Store)
19:26.31 ``Erik 1heh
19:26.33 siggraph bryan_: hrmph
19:26.59 ``Erik do the pills have a fancy crescent and say 'S06' on 'em?
19:27.01 ``Erik :/
19:27.04 siggraph bryan_: what does this report: find /usr/brlcad -type d -name blt2.4
19:27.25 ``Erik if the fucking wench wasn't gone to go to a wedding, I'd be breaking the bitch to try to calm down some.
19:27.30 ``Erik *grouse*
19:27.32 siggraph nah, that was last years, this years is silver
19:27.39 bryan_ /usr/brlcad/lib/blt2.4
19:27.47 ``Erik just plain silver? no "06"?
19:27.58 bryan_ sig, how do I send pm's in irc?
19:27.59 siggraph says boston06
19:28.09 siggraph bryan_: /msg siggraph message
19:28.14 bryan_ danke
19:28.16 ``Erik bryan: /msg username msg
19:28.18 ``Erik heh
19:28.43 siggraph too slow drunky
19:28.51 ``Erik and this net sucks, so if the person you want to message hasn't done something special, you need to be 'registered'...
19:28.58 ``Erik good thing mr sean has 'done something special'
19:29.12 ``Erik drunky? why, I oughta smack the shit outta you :D
19:29.32 siggraph i'll sit by the pool waiting
19:29.44 siggraph with my martini
19:30.05 siggraph actually.. i could go for a mojito
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21:30.56 IriX64 hecklers back :)
21:32.48 IriX64 you know ./mged -c mode.
21:36.21 siggraph IriX64: 'tops' will give a list of geometry -- 'e object' will display "object"
21:47.01 ``Erik -c is awesome
21:47.21 ``Erik did you 'attach' a display type?
21:47.25 ``Erik like, X or gl?
21:47.45 ``Erik <-- usually says "nu" when starting in -c, but has different intentions for using the thing
21:49.20 IriX64 nu
21:49.26 siggraph then type gui
21:49.35 IriX64 thankyou.
21:50.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (COPYING INSTALL include/machine.h src/libbu/parallel.c): changes to support Intel Mac parallel code
21:50.20 ``Erik oh shit, what did he break now
21:50.55 IriX64 dm_bestXtype invalid command name.
21:51.15 siggraph well for starters, he blew away COPYING and INSTALL
21:53.12 ``Erik sean, you have my permission to walk over and backhand him as hard as you can. :D
21:57.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: revert -- I doubt these changes support the intel mac parallel code.. careful not to commit INSTALL as it is often automatically overwritten by automake
21:57.40 ``Erik *snicker*
21:57.54 ``Erik that's a very polite and civil way to phrase it :D
21:57.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: revert -- I doubt these changes support the intel mac parallel code.. careful not to commit COPYING as it is often automatically overwritten by automake
22:36.58 IriX64 $ aclocal
22:36.58 IriX64 S
22:36.58 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:36.58 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
22:36.59 IriX64 I
22:36.59 IriX64 IBMCRYPT
22:37.01 IriX64 IBGCRYPT
22:37.03 IriX64 T2
22:37.05 IriX64 NIT
22:37.07 IriX64 aclocal:configure.ac:2765: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library
22:40.06 IriX64 checking whether dependency tracking should be enabled... no
22:40.07 IriX64 checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
22:40.07 IriX64 checking whether build environment is sane... yes
22:40.07 IriX64 checking for gawk... gawk
22:40.07 IriX64 checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
22:40.07 IriX64 checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no
22:40.09 IriX64 ./configure: line 2271: syntax error near unexpected token `COPYING'
22:40.11 IriX64 ./configure: line 2271: `BC_RESTORE_CLOBBERED(COPYING INSTALL, misc)'
22:40.13 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0
22:40.59 IriX64 autoconf autoheader automake produced no warnings or erros.
22:41.07 IriX64 errors too.
22:41.46 IriX64 and don't tell me to fix it :)
22:42.18 IriX64 time to refresh my code tree i guess.
22:45.33 IriX64 fixed... the easy way, i leave the real work to you :)
22:46.05 IriX64 don't ignore it, it won't go away. :)
22:57.36 IriX64 maybe should be AM_PATH_TO_SDL ? :)
23:00.02 IriX64 not it.
23:05.53 IriX64 dnl works *shrug*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060730

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060730

02:49.16 IriX64 #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
02:49.16 IriX64 Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1274
02:49.16 IriX64 Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.11 (natural logarithm is 7.15)
02:49.16 IriX64 #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
02:49.17 IriX64 These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 1274 times
02:49.19 IriX64 faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780
02:49.21 IriX64 running 4.3 BSD named VGR. These results are in fact approximately 3.11
02:49.23 IriX64 orders of magnitude faster than the reference.
02:53.42 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304848.sympatico.ca)
02:56.29 IriX64 refreshed my code tree and i'm back at 7.8.2 :)
03:02.40 IriX64 BRL-CAD: truck.g put treads on the tires. :)
03:05.49 IriX64 overlap 2 of 2 object1: /g4/r59 overlaps object2: /g4/r74 by as much as 0.100005 in.
03:07.08 IriX64 Ray spacing (in) 3.93700
03:11.10 IriX64 fixed, no more overlaps.
03:15.20 IriX64 can't get mged -c to like me though ahh well.
03:46.34 IriX64 ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --enable-math --enable-optimizations --disable-symbols --disable-debug.
03:46.47 IriX64 well compare benchmarks after this ok?
03:47.40 IriX64 yah well mine compiles in .01 to the point ought fall he said :)
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12:18.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: can only use 4 bytes, not 5 on the RT_METABALL_INTERNAL_MAGIC .. made it 'ball' instead of 'mball'
16:03.43 *** part/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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18:36.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make the 'whether to build against OpenGL' test actually run a function that it has to link against so that it doesn't erroneously pass and leave OpgnGL enabled when there is no library but headers exist.
18:51.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: pro/e is no longer in this directory, same logic moved to src/external
18:54.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: initial revision of a new tool that computes how many lines of code BRL-CAD uses. this separates the code into various categories such as documentation, build system, non-project code, and the actual source code.
18:54.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: add the new lines.sh script
18:55.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/README: add an introductory header that hopefully better explains the various content in the src/ directory as well as a basic summary of just what it comprises before getting into the individual content dirs
18:57.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: quell warning on INFINITY (again), instead renaming the define to CLIP_DISTANCE (just without changing the value this time)
18:59.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (sig/interp.c rt/viewxray.c): quell warning
18:59.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/lowp.c: missing std headers
20:05.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: consistent line lengths
20:53.47 IriX64 $ mged
20:53.47 IriX64 Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
20:55.41 IriX64 showoff ;)
20:56.20 IriX64 think i'll "go ahead and have a look around" ;)
20:59.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh:
20:59.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: instead of using the 'total' summary from the wc command, calculate the sum
20:59.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: directly ourselves using a simple sum function. this slows things down
20:59.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: considerably, but is necessary to avoid the default behavior of xargs on linux
20:59.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: that can break up a piped stream into multiple invocations (resulting in
20:59.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: multiple total lines).
21:00.30 IriX64 xargs cab be disabled on the fly in linux, try that.
21:00.44 IriX64 can too :)
21:01.20 IriX64 ./disable xargs();
21:01.34 IriX64 ./do what you want();
21:01.43 IriX64 ./enable xargs();
21:02.16 IriX64 look up spawn.
21:03.27 IriX64 time to offer tobbaco to manitou, bbiab.
21:26.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
21:26.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: new script for computing BRL-CAD file line counts. this computes the line
21:26.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: counts of the various categories of files in the project including
21:26.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: documentation, source code (distinguishing header code from non-header source
21:26.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: code), 3rd party code (e.g. tcl/tk, png, urt, etc), and build system files.
23:28.19 *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060731

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060731

02:26.22 IriX64 photon mapping engaged.
02:27.01 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
02:27.01 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
02:27.01 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
02:32.40 Twingy heh
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04:07.45 *** part/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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09:01.23 Urielll Hello everyone, how do I run brlcad on windows?
09:03.08 ValarQ Urielll: have you checked the README.Windows ?
09:05.15 Urielll Hmm I can't find this file on the MS packge
09:05.54 ValarQ oh well, it wasn't very usefull...
09:07.30 Urielll Ah, looks like I downloaded the wrong files
09:08.11 Urielll Thanks anyway ;)
09:08.14 ValarQ the windows packages doesn't seem to contain very much
09:09.00 ValarQ youre probably better of compiling it from source
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13:32.24 siggraph Urielll: there's a dll developer download as well as the usual binary distribution.. you probably got the dll
13:32.57 siggraph that won't last very long, it's going to get moved into its own section so it's not so opaque
13:33.14 Urielll Yeah I understood that, thank you :)
15:18.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/shade.c: quell warning, takes floats not fastf_t's
15:19.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/picket_fence.c: fixed incorrect parameter usage of mk_lcomb .. takes an array of three char values, not a string of colors
16:58.25 ``Erik ls
17:27.43 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
17:28.00 IriX64 regards all.
17:28.34 IriX64 rotate-check,drag-check,scale-check :)
17:28.49 IriX64 gui working nicely.
17:32.21 IriX64 shot10.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org/incoming. :)
17:33.18 ``Erik sean, ya there? I gotz an interface question (proxy)
17:44.23 IriX64 shot11.jpg
17:48.46 IriX64 mged> B
17:48.46 IriX64 Error: Usage: B [-A -o -C#/#/# -s] <objects | attribute name/value pairs>
17:49.46 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
17:51.05 ``Erik 'B' is for blast o.O
17:51.24 ``Erik functionally equivelant to running 'Z' then 'e'
17:51.43 IriX64 sticky too.
17:52.32 IriX64 heh naughty boy ;)
17:53.43 ``Erik ??? I'm not the one making things sticky!!!
17:54.06 IriX64 but you know of it so you've used this method.
17:58.46 IriX64 amp lify that. but it's not amp lified.
18:00.45 IriX64 gotta recompile. bbiab=bebackinabit :)
18:03.58 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
18:04.32 IriX64 valiant :)
18:05.14 IriX64 gionnini here?
18:06.06 IriX64 sob is probably in with the admiral. :)
18:06.43 IriX64 look the incinerator is pumping out black smoke.
18:09.06 IriX64 back to mged
18:13.48 IriX64 is pasting permitted?
18:15.05 IriX64 SHOT: cpu = 1.969 sec, elapsed = 63.466 sec
18:15.05 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:15.05 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:15.05 IriX64 Additional mem=1507328., #malloc=903, #free=710, #realloc=26 (193 retained)
18:15.06 IriX64 349487 solid/ray intersections: 102577 hits + 246910 miss
18:15.06 IriX64 pruned 29.4%: 387470 model RPP, 2320981 dups skipped, 326723 solid RPP
18:15.11 IriX64 Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 1.97 sec = 241797.87 pixels/sec
18:15.11 IriX64 Frame 0: 483790 rays in 1.97 sec = 245703.40 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:15.12 IriX64 Frame 0: 483790 rays in 1.97 sec = 245703.40 rays/CPU_sec
18:15.14 IriX64 Frame 0: 483790 rays in 63.47 sec = 7622.82 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:15.16 IriX64 Raytrace complete.
18:15.22 IriX64 mged> took your silence as a yes.
18:16.20 IriX64 now take a lead pencil and tap you're teeth with it..... ;)
18:17.24 IriX64 time to light a fire close to my mouth , i'll be back shortly.
18:20.43 *** kick/#brlcad [IriX64!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by siggraph (you've asked three times in the past and been told the same every single time including pleas/complaints from others.. NO, pasting is not allowed (for you, now))
18:20.43 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
18:24.42 *** topic/#brlcad by siggraph -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || SIGGRAPH BOF, Tuesday @ 4pm!
18:26.16 IriX64 what size was that boot? :)
18:26.23 IriX64 but point taken.
18:27.34 IriX64 Do I have this correct then, the overlap tool can either raytrace (to my spec) to find overlaps, or it can take input from a glint file?
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18:30.32 siggraph IriX64: yes, pretty much
18:30.41 IriX64 thankyou.
18:31.15 siggraph for overlap detection, there is basically "rtcheck", "g_lint", and "g_qa"
18:31.39 siggraph the overlap tool runs one of the first two for you (the third only recently been written)
18:31.49 IriX64 having trouble choosing apprpriate ray spacing, using 10cm at the moment.
18:32.15 IriX64 on havoc that is.
18:32.35 IriX64 azimuth and elevation both 0.
18:33.15 siggraph if you use the command window, you can run rtcheck directly, e.g. rtcheck -s 50
18:33.29 siggraph for 50x50 grid of test rays
18:34.05 IriX64 ahh i get it. my way comes up overlap 1 of 9 edit object 1 etc...
18:35.02 IriX64 can also read overlaps from a g_lint file.
18:36.06 IriX64 can i ftp you a screen shot? maybe you can help me out?
18:38.11 IriX64 or maybe dcc.
18:38.16 IriX64 or mail.
18:43.30 IriX64 screen shots ready.
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19:15.40 catskul can brl read stp/step models?
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21:12.35 IriX64 announcing the t90-cray-unicos BRL-CAD v 10.0.0 :)
22:42.42 ``Erik irix.. knock that shit off... we ferakin' WRITE brlcad, we KNOW what version we're on, we KNOW where it works, we even have a fucking cray c2!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060801

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060801

01:16.30 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
03:02.59 IriX64 yah, but you don't know all the players ;)
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14:23.32 siggraph hmm
14:23.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c:
14:23.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: finally rewrite tkCanvBezier to NOT use libtk internal headers (as it was
14:23.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: written as a proper new libtk Canvas type, but hasn't been pushed through the
14:23.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: tcl/tk 'TIP' process). this change should make it feasible to compile this code
14:23.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: without having to have a copy of the Tk sources around .. more testing needed.
14:24.17 siggraph justin_: you got a brief mention at one of the courses yesterday from Ingo iirc
14:26.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadTkSetup.c: remove old comment
14:26.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: removing the asize.c bn_common_* file autosizing functions, consolidating them to libfb. so update the function names to fb_ now
14:39.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows apparently doesn't have socklen_t defined, so make it an int so that WIN32 hacks can be removed
14:39.42 clock_ bor #ifndef socklen_t #define socklen_t int #endif
14:48.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: run the provided function single-threaded even if bu_parallel() is called on a system that doesn't have PARALLEL support compiled in
15:01.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ext.h: don't need to (nor should we) declare worker() here
15:02.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: reorder functions so that forward declarations are not needed
15:03.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (32 files in 9 dirs):
15:03.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: refactor the three asize.c implementations (libbn, libfb, & canon) into just
15:03.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: one. libbn had the most comprehensive and updated version, but the logic
15:03.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: belongs in libfb. so, the bn_common autosizing functions are now consolidated
15:03.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: to libfb, refactoring accordingly.
15:20.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/ (Makefile.am fbserv.c fbserv_win.c):
15:20.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: refactor fbserv.c and fbserv_win.c so that there is only one file that
15:20.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: supports/contains all of the mods that fbserv_win.c was presuming. this needs
15:20.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: testing but is more functionally clean, relying on configure-style tests/defines
15:20.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: instead of WIN32 where easily possible
15:33.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
15:33.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: try enabling the automatic detection/compilation of tcl/tk now that
15:33.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: tkCanvasBezier is cleaned up to not use internal Tk headers. probably still
15:33.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: need to work on Tcl autopath issues, but give it a shot. also add a slew of
15:33.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: checks for WGL so that a new framebuffer and display manager interface may be
15:33.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: defined on Windows that is separate from the ogl interface. this is important
15:33.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: for cygwin/mingw systems where it is possible to use both wgl and ogl style
15:34.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-wgl.h: initial dm-wgl.h header for a new 'wgl' interface, separating it from the X11-based ogl interface and cleaning up the code
15:35.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-ogl.h: make the 'ogl' interface be X11 OpenGL only. windows is being moved to its own 'wgl' interface
15:38.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): allow unlimited light samples during ray-tracing instead of a fixed compile-time count (was 128)
15:39.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fbserv/fbserv.vcproj: fbserv_win.c was consolidated into fbserv.c
15:40.14 ``Erik dagnabbit, another hchange to configure.ac
15:40.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libdm/libdm.vcproj:
15:40.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: use the new DM_WGL interface instead of the former DM_OGL interface so that the
15:40.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: latter may also be compiled at the same time (e.g. cygwin/mingw environments)
15:40.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: but also to allow the ogl interface to consistently imply just one interface.
15:41.12 *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141085.customer.alfanett.no)
15:44.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: update comment to note that the ogl interface is specifically an X11 OpenGL interface (i.e. it's XGL.. might want to rename it to that someday, but oh well). ws
15:45.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: libfb now compiles asize.c as it was updated and refactored with the better libbn version. compress.c is not really relevant/useful any longer.
15:46.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_prj.c: unused/unnecessary ../rt/ext.h header
15:47.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (Makefile.am light.h): the 'local' light.h header was redundant with include/light.h so remove it
15:50.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (9 files): remove the obsolete regular expression implementation, there is a src/other/libregex that is more up-to-date.
15:51.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/compress.c: remove the obsolete compress.c file .. can be restored from revision history should someone really ever need to revisit compression on such old hardware
15:52.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: install the new dm-wgl.h header
15:52.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj mged/mged.vcproj): use the DM_WGL interface instead of DM_OGL
15:53.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/Makefile.am: removed comment
15:53.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/Makefile.am: remove asize.c file -- was refactored into src/libfb/asize.c
15:54.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: add dm-wgl.c to the compilation list based on the WITH_WGL automake symbol being defined by configure -- this allows the wgl interface to be simultaneously compiled alongside the ogl interface
15:55.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: use the main light.h header, not the (now gone) private src/rt/light.h header
15:59.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c:
15:59.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: add an initial implementation of a WindowsGL 'wgl' libdm interface using the
15:59.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: former dm-ogl_win32.c code as a basis. remove the XGL sections and add
15:59.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: boilerplate checks that makes sure this interface can be compiled alongside the
15:59.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 'ogl' interface. expects DM_OGL to be defined in order to get functionality.
16:01.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c:
16:01.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: initial stub of a libfb IF_WGL 'wgl' interface to replace usage of 'ogl' on
16:01.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Windows. this is done to support the libdm design intent of interfaces for each
16:01.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: style of display manager, instead of piggy-backing on top of 'ogl' and
16:01.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: complicating the code with preprocessor WIN32 checks everywhere. haven't
16:01.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: updated the names/code yet.. just a stub file.
16:02.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: add the new if_wgl.c file, not yet compiled
16:03.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (20 files in 20 dirs): update the usage of LIBRT from configure to be RT instead so that it is consistent with the other BU, BN, WDB etc library defines, using the LIB prefix mostly on third party or external libraries instead.
16:09.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: check for the WITH_WGL symbol from configure to add the WGL cflags
16:09.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oops, typo.. close the macro
16:11.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bah, another.. wgl_link_works, not gl_link_works
16:21.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: update names, s/ogl/wgl/
16:22.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: compile if_wgl.c now that it'll check for IF_WGL being defined
16:25.26 ValarQ siggraph: changed nick?
16:36.34 siggraph ValarQ: hmm?
16:37.58 ValarQ or where is that @brlcad fellow?
16:38.08 siggraph ah
16:38.15 siggraph yes, same fellow
16:38.39 ValarQ ok :)
16:38.41 siggraph i'm at the annual ACM Siggraph conference this week
16:40.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/Makefile.am: g-jack needs his libraries too
16:40.57 siggraph for those that have known me on irc for a long time, it's their queue that I'm in and out of rooms, not on-line as much .. busy etc ;)
16:43.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/patch/Makefile.am: use RT now instead of LIBRT
17:23.50 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
17:24.49 IriX64 ``Erik: apologies for last night, I keep forgetting announcements here are taken seriously, should have put a smiley face on that. I'll watch it from now on.
17:32.21 IriX64 was just trying to tell you my code generator is coming along nicely ``Erik.
17:33.49 IriX64 don't use --host, set the build switch and if a cross compiler is detected it will be used, you know?
17:35.13 IriX64 you want my config.log?
17:36.55 IriX64 its in config.sub you know, the t90-cray-unicos.
17:38.19 IriX64 i've tackled maybe 20% of whats in config.sub.
17:40.42 *** join/#brlcad z80pin6 (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:41.11 IriX64 mmm the nmi pin?
17:41.23 *** join/#brlcad z80pin6 (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:41.47 IriX64 guess not :)
17:42.34 *** join/#brlcad z80pin6 (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:45.04 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:53.04 IriX64 hahah ./jove ==>segmentation fault core dumped
17:53.27 IriX64 now how do i get runtime testing? :)
17:53.32 ValarQ emerge emacs # :P
17:53.40 IriX64 heh yah.
17:54.00 IriX64 got a t90 ValarQ?
17:54.24 ValarQ no
17:54.38 IriX64 heh me either ill just inspect the code.
17:54.44 ValarQ i guess you mean one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90
17:55.13 ValarQ i would love to get my hands on one :)
17:55.47 ValarQ "125 mm smoothbore gun with ATGM capability" :D
17:56.02 IriX64 hahhahah my cross compiler doesn't support *That t90. :)
17:56.08 ValarQ aw :(
17:56.17 IriX64 nice ride?
17:56.58 IriX64 wouldn't rifling it make it go more far more accuratly?
17:57.03 ValarQ i don't think so, they usually isn't very comfortable
17:58.26 ValarQ we only had 75mm canons where i used to work...
17:59.19 IriX64 75mm , question stands would rifling the barrel help?
17:59.32 ValarQ don't know actually
18:00.00 IriX64 help on hunting weapons, even arrows these days twist in flight.
18:00.05 IriX64 helps too.
18:00.17 ValarQ yeah, but here the forces is much bigger
18:00.33 IriX64 physics cares little about scale.
18:00.42 siggraph IriX64: do you have a backtrace?
18:00.55 IriX64 what the core dump?
18:01.01 ValarQ IriX64: true, but not necessary the materials
18:01.05 siggraph no, the backgrace
18:01.16 ValarQ s/necessary/necessarily/
18:01.17 siggraph s/gr/tr/
18:01.19 IriX64 didnt look just tried to run it.
18:01.27 IriX64 whats it called?
18:01.31 siggraph can you run it in a debugger?
18:01.34 IriX64 just a sec ill find it.
18:01.49 IriX64 no man its t90 architecture.
18:01.56 siggraph and more importantly, is this the latest cvs or some source release?
18:02.13 IriX64 something ive worked on.
18:02.35 IriX64 from the source tarball 7.6.0 and up to 7.8.2 from sourceforge.
18:03.04 IriX64 cant be a backtrace think why.
18:03.30 ValarQ IriX64: "The cannon, in the form of the tank gun, has made the transition from smoothbore to rifled, and is moving back to smoothbore."
18:03.35 ValarQ IriX64: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothbore
18:03.43 IriX64 dont have a t90 debugger man, sorry :)
18:04.07 IriX64 really valarq?
18:04.17 IriX64 ill look that up right now.
18:07.39 ValarQ IriX64: yeah, it seems as they use longer projectiles there is no need for rifled cannons
18:08.06 IriX64 they cheat they use fins :)
18:09.11 IriX64 like arrows, tell them to use the fins to impart a stability spin and minimize tumbling.
18:10.20 IriX64 btw that v10.0.0 is simply what I call mine :)
18:13.53 IriX64 this'll be a little while yet, I'm taking a smoke break, be back in a bit.
18:41.45 IriX64 ftp.brlcad.org, Brl-Cad-10.0.0.bz2 if you're curious.
18:41.55 IriX64 incoming of course.
18:45.20 IriX64 I... touch things, you know, to relax, are any of you like that?
18:54.20 IriX64 its there. :)
19:19.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
19:19.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Drastically improved bounding sphere computation (better center and fit).
19:19.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Fix for 'garbage' normals resulting in noisy images in some situations.
19:19.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Obey the 'one-hit' flag in the shot routine.
19:21.09 ``Erik irix64: do you have the 'file' program?
19:35.38 *** join/#brlcad TechNeck (i=techneck@basic-lip.shekel.dreamhost.com)
19:36.12 TechNeck hi guys
19:36.39 TechNeck just checking out brlcad for the first time
19:36.43 TechNeck pretty useful?
19:44.50 ``Erik some people seem to think so, it's been in use for about 25 yrs now...
19:50.12 siggraph TechNeck: I like it
19:50.14 siggraph :)
19:52.35 TechNeck I use freebsd and some different flavors of linux at home
19:52.47 ``Erik /usr/ports/cad/brlcad
19:52.48 TechNeck work is all windows based
19:53.08 TechNeck I'm at work and grabbed the sourceforge windows version
19:53.16 TechNeck it's a dll :/
19:53.58 TechNeck Is brlcad just the library?
19:54.01 ``Erik no
19:54.06 ``Erik I think you need the _devel file?
19:54.22 ``Erik or
19:54.23 ``Erik no
19:54.27 ``Erik you probably need the 7.8.0 one
19:54.32 TechNeck is it a working application in itself? or do I have to make one with it?
19:54.39 ``Erik it looks a lot meatier
19:54.48 ``Erik it's a collection of 400 and something executables
19:54.52 TechNeck ok
19:54.56 ``Erik 'mged' being the one most people want to use first
19:55.35 TechNeck It doesn't replace AutoCAD right out of the box, though, does it?
19:55.51 ``Erik it's goal is a little different
19:56.34 ``Erik autocad is very much a draft generation system, not a 3d engineering/analysis tool?
19:56.34 TechNeck I'm saying, though, we could develop and AutoCAD replacement with this, yea?
19:56.40 TechNeck I see it has conversion tools
19:57.07 ``Erik well, yeah, it copes with dxf, the draft features are just a bit weaker, I guess, and the UI is a bit different
19:57.44 ``Erik <-- not a modeller, is a coder, so not very familiar iwth autocad or the other halfdozen cad type activitites
20:09.35 ``Erik sweet
20:11.06 archivist I never liked Orcad, I used PCAD
20:14.31 archivist My old DOS version of PCAD (cant afford to upgrade) still has stuff that makes me continue using it
20:15.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/Makefile.am: LIBRT moved to RT
20:18.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: rtsrv needs libfb
20:22.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: sh_billboard.c requires libfb for fb_common_name_size, so add it to the deplibs
20:26.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: since liboptical now deplibs libfb, we can remove libfb from the explicit ldadd
20:51.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
20:51.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Shoot all the way through if ap->a_onehit is not true (opposed to through the first in/out pair).
20:51.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Apply the 'stepping' optimization to walking after the first hit.
20:51.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Minor cleanup for -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic.
20:55.23 ``Erik lots and lots of beer
20:55.24 ``Erik :D
21:09.47 TechNeck hmm
21:09.55 TechNeck looks cool
21:10.07 TechNeck crashes when I go to make an extrusion though
21:21.58 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
21:28.31 *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-222-178-156.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
21:28.55 matt_ezeki_230 hi guys...
21:37.46 matt_ezeki_230 i've a problem with clone function. Let me provide an example:
21:38.07 matt_ezeki_230 1) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
21:38.22 matt_ezeki_230 2) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
21:38.43 matt_ezeki_230 3) r ab.r u a.s u b.s
21:39.12 matt_ezeki_230 4) clone ab.r
21:40.00 Twingy that's good I guess
21:41.35 matt_ezeki_230 db_read(test.g) ERROR offset=424, count=10240, dbi_eof=504
21:42.20 matt_ezeki_230 ERROR: clone internal error, cannot find ab.r for editing
21:42.46 matt_ezeki_230 Database read error, aborting
21:43.03 matt_ezeki_230 .
21:43.03 matt_ezeki_230 .
21:43.09 matt_ezeki_230 any ideas?
21:46.11 Twingy try converting it
21:46.29 Twingy there's a utility to bring it up to the "latest" ver
21:47.52 matt_ezeki_230 should I convert command clone?
21:48.10 Twingy "command clone" ?
21:49.40 matt_ezeki_230 you said "try converting it"... what is "it"?
21:51.01 Twingy your file
21:54.59 matt_ezeki_230 sorry, I'm a newbie in brlcad but... which conversion should I do to my file (from *.g to...)? which utility should I use to do this and why should a *.g file be a problem?
21:55.38 Twingy check the converters directory
22:07.09 matt_ezeki_230 which is the converters directory? /usr/brlcad/.....?
22:11.56 Twingy then get installed in bin
22:12.02 Twingy the src/conv has the list
22:12.14 Twingy I'll be back later, I got some stuff going on here
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060802

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060802

02:52.14 *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:57.08 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305916.sympatico.ca)
03:07.14 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305916.sympatico.ca)
09:48.35 *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-138-136.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
09:49.53 *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-138-136.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
10:23.36 matt_ezeki_230 hi... I'm here again because I keep on having problems with "clone <obj>" command
10:23.45 matt_ezeki_230 let me provide a simple mged session which expose the issue:
10:23.53 matt_ezeki_230 $ mged test.g
10:23.55 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:24.09 matt_ezeki_230 mged> in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
10:24.15 matt_ezeki_230 mged> in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
10:24.46 matt_ezeki_230 mged> r rab.r u a.s u b.s
10:24.53 matt_ezeki_230 mged> clone -n 1 rab.r
10:25.01 matt_ezeki_230 db_read(test.g) ERROR offset=424, count=10240, dbi_oef=504
10:25.11 matt_ezeki_230 ERROR: clone internal error, cannot find rab.r for editing
10:25.17 matt_ezeki_230 Database read error, aborting
10:25.30 matt_ezeki_230 ...but if I list the objects in database...
10:25.40 matt_ezeki_230 mged> ls -l
10:25.45 matt_ezeki_230 a.s tgc12160
10:25.50 matt_ezeki_230 b.s tgc12160
10:25.54 matt_ezeki_230 rab.r region1 31 80
10:26.07 matt_ezeki_230 ...and...
10:26.17 matt_ezeki_230 mged> l rab.r
10:26.22 matt_ezeki_230 rab.r: REGION id=1000 (air=0, los=100, GIFTmater=1) --
10:26.27 matt_ezeki_230 u a.s
10:26.32 matt_ezeki_230 u b.s
10:26.44 matt_ezeki_230 ...I hope someone could help me to solve this issue...
12:16.44 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
13:25.18 siggraph matt_ezeki_230: clone does not yet work on db 5 databases.. I should have disabeled it, but unintentionally left it enabled for the past release
13:27.17 siggraph TechNeck: it certainly doesn't replace autocad out of the box, but we also certainly could fill in the missing pieces with development
13:27.29 siggraph we're mostly at a lack of dev hands, not ideas or plans ;)
13:28.15 clock_ siggraph: like everybody
13:28.38 siggraph to some extents
13:28.59 siggraph some projects I've worked on are actually at a sweet spot of developer activity
13:29.35 siggraph 5 or 6 active devs is pretty ideal if they are globally distributed, a few more if you can all get together more consistently
13:30.23 siggraph (and by active, I mean very active.. fully invested in development)
13:31.15 siggraph matt_ezeki_230: basically, you'll need to use the Pattern tool (on the Tools menu) instead of the clone command for now
13:32.20 siggraph TechNeck: you have an extrusion that is crashing? I'd be interested in knowing what steps you took that caused it..
13:40.33 matt_ezeki_230 siggraph: ok! It works! many thanks :-)
13:41.57 ``Erik damn shootray is one bigassed function
13:43.50 clock_ ``Erik: I say ass so wide one could project 20 widescreen movies on it
13:49.06 ``Erik iiiiiinteresting
13:49.35 clock_ ``Erik: Especially in connection with women. My sexual subsystem is not particularly tuned to women and their wide asses ;-)
13:54.02 archivist more that a handfull and the rest goes to waste
13:54.13 archivist that=than
13:55.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: Corrected the compile instructions
13:58.42 matt_ezeki_230 siggraph: only a last question... I choose tab named "rectangular", depth of duplication = primitives, source string = rab, replacement string = k1, objects = rab.r and I obtained a cloned region k1.r builded with primitives a.s_1 and b.s_1. Is there a way to obtain k1.r builded with primitives k1_a.s (instead of a.s_1) and k1_b.s (instead of b.s_1) **in a straight manner** (e.i without to use command "mvall" to rename them
13:58.42 matt_ezeki_230 <PROTECTED>
15:01.57 siggraph hmmm
16:54.17 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308110.sympatico.ca)
17:25.05 IriX64 who is peer, and why is he always resetting my connection. :)
17:34.24 IriX64 you people must be very very busy, I would hate to have your jobs. :)
17:58.38 siggraph IriX64: always very very busy, but I actually rather enjoy my job :)
17:59.26 siggraph though enjoying one's job is almost entirely just a state of mind, personal tolerance, and values
18:01.00 IriX64 thought it was a matter of payola ;)
18:01.44 IriX64 must admit enough payola contributes greatly to the enjoment of one job. :)
18:01.56 IriX64 enjoyment too.
18:03.28 siggraph nah
18:03.40 IriX64 heh ok.
18:03.52 siggraph i'd work for a heck of a lot less if someone bought me my toys and kept me fed
18:04.20 IriX64 agreed feel the same way.
18:04.28 siggraph that just gets back to tolerance and values.. some value the pay and not the work
18:04.50 IriX64 true way too much importance is attached to dollars.
18:06.20 ``Erik money is a means, not an end...
18:06.36 IriX64 if it was an end i could quit work.
18:06.46 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308110.sympatico.ca)
18:06.56 archivist not enough money == not enough toys (my current situation)
18:07.10 ``Erik buy cheaper toys?
18:07.18 ``Erik you can do some gnarly stuff with 74xx ttl's
18:07.59 IriX64 quick i just threw you a 7404 what did you do with it? :)
18:08.12 ``Erik stick it up my nose
18:08.18 archivist I collect free toys others throw away
18:08.31 IriX64 erik there 3 othe pices.
18:08.38 ``Erik without some kinda board, wiring, solder, i/o devices, etc... that's about what it's good forr
18:08.57 IriX64 name a toy.
18:09.27 IriX64 trs80?
18:09.32 archivist HP 1631D logic analyser
18:09.43 IriX64 thats hp 16540
18:10.10 IriX64 analyzer :)
18:10.28 IriX64 ermf anal izer :)
18:11.59 ``Erik or mebbe an oh40 for the onboard fpu
18:12.22 IriX64 man that an sx chip.
18:12.58 IriX64 wonder if i can support the amdahl?
18:14.25 IriX64 those guys are tight lipped about their instuction set (unless you're a customer)
18:14.33 ``Erik erm...
18:14.44 ``Erik the motorola 68030 is a very old, open, and widely known chip...
18:14.58 ``Erik not TOO long ago, they'd send you free opcode and schematic books
18:15.00 IriX64 thought that was the m68000
18:15.16 ``Erik the whole 68k line
18:15.32 IriX64 mmm pdp11 on a chip that one i know.
18:15.38 ``Erik 030 added an onboard mmu, 040 added an onboard fpu...
18:16.41 archivist I have a few motorolas in my cpu collection some on the original boards
18:17.02 IriX64 12737 301 777566 ===> mov the number following this instruction to the address following that number, nowq whats it doing?
18:17.47 IriX64 prints a capital a on the console typer :)
18:19.58 IriX64 must go buy a case of sandwiches, be back in a bit.
18:49.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: adding {free,open,net}bsd to the ugly hackery
19:53.55 ``Erik siggraph: ap->a_onehit intends for only the very first 'in' (assuming you start 'out') hit to be used?
20:01.43 *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
20:05.49 siggraph ``Erik: pretty much
20:06.11 ``Erik erm... "pretty much"?
20:06.28 siggraph it computes the first hitpoint along a ray
20:07.12 ``Erik a lot of primitives go ahead and do the first and second hitpoints... in and out... :/
20:07.16 siggraph and instead of progressing the ray more, it halts
20:08.32 ``Erik of course, a lot of primitives get that for free :)
20:09.15 siggraph yes, some do.. and they probably shouldn't
20:09.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: don't complain about an inside-out primitive when 'out' is unset and a_onehit is set
20:09.24 siggraph but is generally already computed information
20:12.25 siggraph hmm.. i'm not sure that is valid
20:12.54 ``Erik why not?
20:14.03 siggraph a_onehit serves multiple purposes
20:14.28 siggraph if a_onehit == 1, then it should be only the first in point if I read the comments correctly
20:14.42 siggraph value of 2 would be the first entry/exit pair
20:14.49 ``Erik meh, the manpage is off?
20:15.12 siggraph which manpage?
20:15.27 ``Erik librt
20:15.39 siggraph read src/librt/bool.c's comment
20:15.47 ``Erik makes it sound like a boolean, not a count
20:16.11 siggraph for 'rt', it's used as a boolean
20:19.40 ``Erik 'k, taken care of
20:24.00 siggraph should update NEWS when you make changes like machine.h .. that fixes crashing problems if I'm not mistaken
20:24.09 siggraph no?
20:24.32 ``Erik nope
20:24.50 ``Erik the default stuff worked on bsd, it just didn't go parallel by default
20:25.38 siggraph not even the 64bit addage?
20:26.59 ``Erik ooh
20:27.01 ``Erik shit
20:27.56 ``Erik gnarly
20:28.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: added note about the machine.h changes
20:28.58 siggraph heh, bzzt
20:29.13 siggraph user-visible changes dude
20:29.59 siggraph it's also a stack
20:30.10 siggraph and one-line per entry
20:30.10 ``Erik meh
20:30.12 siggraph sheesh
20:30.28 ``Erik heh, is it one line, or 80?
20:31.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved FreeBSD 64bit support, fix AMD64 crash
20:31.40 ``Erik gheh
20:31.43 ``Erik bastage
20:32.01 siggraph one line per user-visible change, less than 70 chars per line .. just like the file says..
20:32.08 ``Erik <-- fixes his own mistakes o.O
20:32.49 ``Erik heh, and allowing parallel tracing isn't worthy? :)
20:33.19 ``Erik <-- did it to set PARALLEL, fixing that bool bug on amd64 was a pleasant surprise...
20:33.41 siggraph which bool bug on amd64?
20:33.45 siggraph the havoc crash?
20:33.53 ``Erik yes, that I'm about to close in the tracker
20:34.21 siggraph heh, forgot all about checking the BITV length
20:34.56 siggraph that stupid int needs to be provided by configure
20:35.11 ``Erik several things do, machine.h should go away
20:35.18 ``Erik imho.
20:42.39 siggraph it should
20:42.54 siggraph that's just a rather big undertaking to fully realize
20:43.10 siggraph i've started on some of the pieces here, started some of it on the train
20:44.06 siggraph each change impacts several hundred files often in non-scriptable ways
20:44.54 ``Erik *nod*
20:45.52 siggraph finally got tkCanvBezier separated from libtk
20:47.18 siggraph what's amazing is that non-debug worked without setting the correct BITV length
20:47.24 siggraph it should have crashed
20:48.43 siggraph implies something wierd like non-debug is using 32 bit ints under the hood or something similar
20:48.48 ``Erik aight, if a_onehit means 'number of hits to compute, or all if 0', what's a negative value mean?
20:49.09 siggraph the comment talks about < 0
20:49.16 siggraph or at least shoot.c does iirc
20:49.31 siggraph basically indicates whether to count air
20:49.57 ``Erik *read*
20:54.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: minor comment about keeping docs up to date, communicating changes
20:59.34 ``Erik <-- goes home O.o
20:59.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Implemented rt_metaball_class. Fixed a_onehit handling in rt_metaball_shot.
21:00.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: forgot to mention that this fixes sf bug #1469502: FreeBSD6/amd64 rt segfault when optimization enabled
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21:50.34 Open2000 hello, i want to try brl-cad for windows, where i should start?
22:03.19 bjorkBSD Ухожу я от вас
22:03.23 bjorkBSD he put a hex on you folks ^
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060803

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060803

00:43.04 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310151.sympatico.ca)
00:43.11 IriX64 greet.
00:44.13 IriX64 BrlCad on leave?
00:55.50 IriX64 say would any of you be able to runtime test a sparc-sun-sunos irssi?
01:18.09 IriX64 checking size of off_t... configure: error: cannot run test program while cross
01:18.11 IriX64 compiling
01:18.22 IriX64 why don they just make an assumption?
01:22.10 IriX64 i set it to 4 (if you have bigger it should still work)
01:25.11 IriX64 int.
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17:29.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: compute how many lines of the source code are actually blank and don't include those numbers in the totals for a slightly better/invariant approximation
17:30.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: init array to zero
17:31.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: avoid crash -- if the interface is null, just return
17:32.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.dsp: use IF_WGL now instead of IF_OGL, as well as if_wgl.c instead of if_ogl_win32.c
17:34.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: add support for the new 'wgl' WindowsGL interface
17:35.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add support for the new 'wgl' WindowsGL interface
18:06.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
18:06.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Major fixes to bounding sphere generation.
18:06.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Break bigger functions down a bit for reuse and easier reading.
18:06.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Draw the bounding sphere in rt_metaball_plot (may be backed out later).
18:08.18 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:14.37 ``Erik hrm
18:18.12 ``Erik sean, ya handy?
18:18.43 ``Erik (and is what's-his-name there with you?)
19:32.07 b0ef is it a goal for BRL-CAD to support a full NURBS manipulation environment with the new interface?
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20:02.14 IriX64 brlcad qualifies as a ton of source code :)
20:03.06 b0ef does the brl-cad NURBS tools, which are not visible in the editor, support a full range of operations on NURBS?
20:04.04 IriX64 define nurbs, i'm a neophyte.
20:04.50 b0ef IriX64: http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurbs
20:05.03 IriX64 ty.
20:06.45 IriX64 fer cris sake a wave modeler?
20:07.36 IriX64 i'll try it after i get it built again :)
20:09.10 b0ef IriX64: the NURBS tools are not accessible with the current editor
20:10.47 IriX64 thankyou but you should still be able to run them from mged
20:11.19 IriX64 or is that the current editor you're talking about meaning the geometry editor?
20:12.50 b0ef yes, you can't manipulate NURBS
20:13.05 b0ef you can only import NURBS, but not do anything with them
20:13.07 IriX64 but you said nurbs *tools.
20:13.40 b0ef yes, there are apparently some NURBS tools in the code, but the are not accessible from anywhere
20:13.59 IriX64 try ./tool :)
20:14.05 b0ef s/the are/they are/
20:14.26 IriX64 ./tool.exe
20:19.44 ``Erik nurb support was a thing that was being worked on and the person like retired or something, so work stopped... thten it was reassigned to someone a few months back, and he worked on it, and then he got assigned to a different project...
20:19.49 ``Erik irix, you're a tool.exe.
20:20.34 IriX64 try it. (I am gemoetry) :)
20:20.36 ``Erik so, nurbs are an incomplete primitive... :)
20:21.31 b0ef ``Erik: yes, but is it the goal of BRL-CAD to support extensive NURBS manipulation?;)
20:21.59 ``Erik it was the intent a couple times in history... I believe it's a perpetual intent, but when the boss says "quit that, work on this instead"... *shrug* :)
20:22.10 ``Erik feel free to code up the rest of the nurbs stuff if you want it that bad :D
20:22.24 ``Erik the most recent efforts were moved into a branch in april
20:22.39 IriX64 in other words take it up with his boss.
20:22.44 IriX64 heh sorry.
20:23.43 IriX64 ``Erik? Archer works on my windows box, but the *nix implementation, incomplete?
20:23.47 b0ef ``Erik: ;), it's a little out of my scope for the moment, but I just wanted to clarify if it was the goal and it is; thanks
20:24.01 ``Erik archer was written for widnows, the idea to port it to *nix is being discussed...
20:24.25 ``Erik b0ef: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/librt/g_nurb.c?hideattic=0&view=log
20:24.32 ``Erik before the dir reorg :)
20:25.44 IriX64 you're a good woman ``Erik. :)
20:27.50 IriX64 wonder if he still has lucy van pelt, he founded an industry with that floppy door latch thing.
20:32.00 IriX64 time for a breath of air bbiab.
20:54.14 IriX64 ``Erik? if i wanted to share some of my stuff, must i go through cvs?
20:57.11 IriX64 is ftp.brlcad.org an official brl-cad server?
21:05.23 ``Erik uhhhh, share what stuff?
21:06.50 IriX64 code both binaries & sorce :)
21:10.30 siggraph b0ef: full range of operations except trimmings .. that was very recently being worked on but is incomplete afaik
21:12.38 siggraph b0ef: i would say the intent is to eventually add full nurbs manipulation support in the modeling environment, as well as possibly use the nurbs in-memory representation as a means to support b-rep dual representations of implicits to allow for more flexible editing operations as needed
21:13.10 siggraph just need someone that's interested enough to make it their own, get knee deep in code, and flesh it out
21:15.45 siggraph IriX64: archer is inherintly cross-platform.. but it's currently expecting to be able to load a plugin and that code hasn't been hashed out really
21:16.25 ``Erik sean
21:16.31 siggraph IriX64: if you have source changes, there are instructions in the HACKING file on making a universal diff and where it can be posted (basically to the sf.net patches tracker)
21:16.42 ``Erik still near what's-his-name?
21:16.56 siggraph i haven't seen em since tues
21:17.00 ``Erik ah
21:17.05 ``Erik didja see... my balls? :D
21:17.31 IriX64 the.... galls:)
21:18.05 ``Erik http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/niceballs.png hehehe
21:18.24 IriX64 still waiting on a reply re the server.
21:19.28 siggraph ``Erik: coolness
21:22.41 IriX64 more i look at it... maybe the march of the balls.:)
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21:33.50 b0ef siggraph: that's excellent to hear;) - this would include hierarchical NURBS as well, right?. (stitching together surfaces of different resolutions)
21:39.20 siggraph to properly stitch together surfaces, you really need to be able to trim (some of) them for certain operations
21:39.54 siggraph otherwise, you can even mix them with implicits and they'll evaluate correctly
21:42.48 b0ef yes, trimming is very important;)
22:05.22 Twingy you don't need trimming to stitch together surface
22:06.20 Twingy you can do it with knot insertion using a third surface
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22:10.42 b0ef Twingy: ah, you're the maintainer of nurbana;)
22:13.27 Twingy or lack there of
22:13.41 b0ef well, yeah, one day;)
22:13.53 b0ef you should publish your paypal account;)
22:14.33 Twingy nurbana was a learning experience
22:17.00 b0ef you intend to pursue it with BRL-CAD?
22:17.39 Twingy given the projects I'm currently involved with (Rocketry, GCAM, House Work) I'm afraid it won't happen
22:18.52 b0ef sad; NURBS is really lacking in the free software world
22:19.03 b0ef siggraph: have you decided on gtk+ yet?;)
22:19.09 siggraph heh
22:19.12 b0ef hehe
22:19.20 b0ef indeed
22:19.22 pra5ad siggraph: try out the full body DDR?
22:19.44 siggraph pra5ad: they had that a couple years ago
22:19.56 pra5ad is it production quality now?
22:21.16 Twingy running a freebsd vm to do all my development on my mac is bliss
22:22.23 siggraph pra5ad: pretty much
22:22.37 siggraph there was much cooler stuff than that in emerging tech, though
22:22.59 Twingy I can embrace apple as my desktop machine of choice
22:23.21 pra5ad oh bice
22:23.24 pra5ad nice*
22:24.15 Twingy all on the same laptop
22:27.49 ``Erik does it have a serial port? or do you have a usb/serial converter?
22:28.52 ``Erik (or are you driving the programmer on a bsd or winderz box and just generating hex images on the lappie?)
22:29.13 Twingy I ordered 2 yesterday
22:29.20 Twingy seriolo
22:29.26 Twingy $17 a piece
22:29.41 Twingy my pair of semitech's are only supports by winbloze
22:30.06 ``Erik I bought one a while back supported on winderz and mac, but lacking decent serial devices, haven't gotten it working yet
22:30.27 Twingy I'm going to use mine with my garmin etrex
22:30.51 ``Erik ooh, yeah, I got a legend with a serial cable somewhere...
22:31.38 Twingy I just hope our parallels licenses come in before mine expires in 12 days
22:33.01 ``Erik <-- likes shelling into a fbsd box to do dev, would rather avoid being in the same room as all the noise and heat from compiling :)
22:33.57 Twingy doesn't work so well when you're in the middle of desert in yuma
22:34.42 ``Erik true
22:40.24 Twingy I'm saving so much money by eating $3 microwavable lunches
22:40.51 ``Erik I spent $25 on eating out last month, heh
22:40.55 Twingy I get cranky when I don't eat
22:41.23 ``Erik me, too, I even got cranky in channel yesterday hehehehe
22:41.53 ``Erik combination of no food, lack of caffeine, and totally wrong documentation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060804

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060804

02:22.20 IriX64 windows media player now recognizes jump drive and plays from it, slick, job done moose, gromph.
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03:34.57 noidea697 Hi all, I'm learning BRLCAD and trying to create a hollow trc shape like a funnel with a wall thickness. I cannot seem to get the Boolean operations correct. Sorry to be such a pain.
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15:46.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
15:46.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Fixed point value function (f^2/r^2 instead of f/r^2). Fixed steppers
15:46.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: "dist left" concept. (those two fix 'large' object rendering). Renamed
15:46.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and deleted variables for readability.
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20:06.00 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060805

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060805

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04:49.09 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/alumaforge1/
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11:24.10 brlcad heh, nifty
11:41.01 ``Erik cool, a successful button
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18:36.15 IriX64 in conversation more things come.
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19:01.47 IriX64 ldconfig: line 1 command not found??????
19:02.21 IriX64 errr libtool ...
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19:55.26 brlcad compile error?
19:57.21 IriX64 yeah.
19:58.22 IriX64 err install time.
20:03.53 ``Erik did you unbreak src/mged, sean?
20:04.05 ``Erik like, dm-tk.c or something?
20:04.13 brlcad hmm
20:04.16 brlcad that got committed?
20:04.23 ``Erik it was in the Makefile.am
20:04.26 ``Erik but the src file was not there
20:04.26 brlcad ahhh
20:04.33 ``Erik I touched it to get the build to work on my local system
20:04.45 ``Erik but most folk will just throw their hands int he air and say brlcad sucks cuz it won't compile
20:05.03 brlcad yeah, i've got like 3 threads of mods going on at once in the same checkout, so the commits have been careful piecemeal
20:05.11 brlcad the rest should be going in today
20:05.14 brlcad working on it all now
20:05.19 IriX64 brlcad sucks cause it wont compile on my coleco :)
20:05.40 ``Erik um, actually, irix, it probably would...
20:05.41 ``Erik :)
20:05.48 ``Erik colecos run cp/m on a z80 last I looked
20:05.58 IriX64 given a decent compiler ... i agree :)
20:06.05 brlcad ``Erik: i only know of one.. that does the throwing their hands up bit without even reading the error message
20:06.39 ``Erik heh
20:06.56 ``Erik still ain't good to have a broken cvs repo, especially without a -stable branch
20:10.05 brlcad yep
20:11.00 brlcad had I had internet more consistently, I would have just had multiple checkouts but often went half the day so I just churned through different stuff all at once
20:19.09 ``Erik without even branching, bastage
20:20.09 ``Erik anyways, that was the only breakage I saw, went in with a wgl commit
20:21.22 brlcad yep, that was why
20:21.46 brlcad the wgl stuff is an attempt to untangle the mess bob has in there with the ogl interface
20:22.01 brlcad i'm sure the windows build is busted right now
20:23.24 ``Erik hrmph, mebbe a sit-together between him and a *nix weenie is needed
20:35.39 brlcad nah, it's not really expertise, he just doesn't care really about that sort of stuff .. easiest fix is his method, no matter how messy ..
20:37.22 ``Erik heh
20:38.31 ``Erik if he breaks bsd, I'll break it right back. ;D
20:40.49 brlcad he generally doesn't.. mostly riddles the code with #ifdef PLATFORM junk
20:56.20 ``Erik #ifdef WINDOWS, not #ifdef HAVE_SOMETHING ?
21:03.56 brlcad yep
21:04.30 brlcad just do a search on _WIN32 and you'll see his stuff :)
21:04.46 brlcad that's like a laundry to-do list
21:05.32 brlcad though some of it predates them
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060806

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060806

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15:00.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/findcom.c: quell warnings about implicit declarations
15:17.42 ``Erik rm -rf src/other/jove
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15:34.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS:
15:34.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD is comprised of several isolatable projects that have specific
15:34.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: distinguishing qualities of utility that make them useful as
15:34.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: stand-alone projects to a wide audience of users. In some cases,
15:34.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: these projects may be independently maintained and are sometimes
15:34.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: independently distributed. These projects are described in this file.
15:34.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add PROJECTS and IDEAS to the list of documentation
15:38.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: clean up the introductory description paragraph a little
15:42.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: spel chek
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060807

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060807

02:53.31 IriX64 brlcad.exe ... sweet.;)
03:36.48 IriX64 just rename mged.exe to brlcad.exe :)
03:37.19 IriX64 sigh, nobody called me on it so i gave.:)
03:54.48 brlcad mged isn't worthy to be called brlcad.exe
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10:00.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/Makefile.am: s/LIBRT/RT/
10:01.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: dm-tk.c isn't ready yet
10:17.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): revert the unlimited lights change briefly until it is determined why they are not working for area light sources
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14:09.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: unnecesary IF_OGL define
15:35.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: revert, wrong edited dm.h.. not yet ready for the tk interface
15:54.44 ``Erik the girl is good
15:55.15 ``Erik I wonder how much writing is done by her uncredited band
16:05.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (21 files in 13 dirs): add explicit code for DM_WGL and IF_WGL for Windows GL support instead of piggybacking off of the OGL interface
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16:57.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): remove the if_ogl_win32.c interface .. Windows platforms should now be using the if_wgl.c interface instead
17:26.54 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libdm/libdm.vcproj: windows uses dm-wgl.c now, not dm-ogl_win.c .. the latter exists no more
17:27.35 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: compile the new dm-wgl.c interface instead of dm-ogl.c now on Windows
17:29.38 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-wgl.c: add a new dm-wgl.c interface for windows to use instead of piggypacking off of the ogl interface
17:32.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-glx.c: remove the old DM_OGL hack on the GLX interface.. move towards decoupling the two
17:38.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-ogl.c: no longer need the _WIN32 section, they get their own dm-wgl.c interface
17:44.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: no longer need the ogl_ogl externs..
17:47.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: remrt does use libfb directly and needs to declare the dependency even if another dependency also uses it. libtool is supposed to sort it all out
17:55.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): IF_4D interface is not really shipped any more, don't talk about it
17:57.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (Makefile.am if_4d-old.c): mark the if_4d-old interface as now obsolete, no longer shipping the sources leaving it to cvs history
18:11.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: reword away if_4d.c
19:11.01 IriX64 weet weet all reet. :)
19:11.28 IriX64 hey man if the crease comes outta my peg leg pants, the world will end :)
19:17.26 IriX64 l8r
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20:22.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): decouple IF_X from the other framebuffer interfaces (ogl and wgl in particular). Windows should not define IF_X unless they want the X11 interface.
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21:43.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-X.h: cleanup, ws
21:48.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h:
21:48.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: collapse the two structures into one, even though the structure really should
21:48.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: NOT be serving double-duty and be compile-time variable-width.. doesn't allow
21:48.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: multiple interfaces to be simultaneously compiled. should absorb the interface
21:48.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: into dm-X.h and friends at some point.
21:49.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: header cleanup, get rid of _WIN32
21:50.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): ws
21:50.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-generic.c: header cleanup, ws
21:51.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/doevent.c: ws
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23:02.32 Twingy any news on the parallels licenses?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060808

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060808

00:37.38 IriX64 4 hrs i should have a cassie 4.1.1 :)
00:50.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: don't define DM_X, should be only using DM_WGL now on Windows
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00:58.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-generic.c dm_obj.c libdm.dsp query.c tcl.c): decouple DM_X from the other display manager interfaces, clean up the preprocessor logic so Windows does not need to declare it
01:21.33 IriX64 how long do we wait before we can post after a CIA-9 post?
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01:26.47 IriX64 reboot, back later.
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01:39.54 IriX64 Did I get an answer? Time after CIA-9 posts before mere mortals can post again?
02:32.15 brlcad IriX64: don't understand the question
02:33.11 brlcad CIA merely posts a notification when a CVS commit is performed to the source repository, so everyone knows exactly who is doing what and when generally speaking
02:35.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for pipe()
02:43.44 IriX64 just thought i was interefering with development.
02:44.14 IriX64 thought there was a protocol of some type here.
02:50.46 brlcad only when you go on your pasting rampages
02:52.20 brlcad if there's design or development discussions going on, off-topic and just basic "chit-chat" chatter would be frowned upon but not when we're like this
02:52.40 IriX64 thanks for the explanation.
02:52.42 brlcad relatively low energy in the channel, simple to manage.. nobody has to wade through to get a word in
02:53.07 IriX64 my diff is huge :)
02:53.35 IriX64 aieeeee patch broke ;)
02:55.09 IriX64 9 minuts? thought my system was faster than that.
02:55.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (10 files): decouple DM_X from the other display manager interfaces, clean up the preprocessor logic so Windows does not need to declare DM_X but also to avoid using _WIN32 where possible as well.
02:55.50 brlcad you ever figure out why your wallclock counts are so low?
02:56.04 IriX64 didnt want to do the math.
02:56.41 IriX64 lets see what bench has to say.
02:59.05 brlcad your rtfm was fine
02:59.16 brlcad but it is WAY off your wallclock count, which isn't right
02:59.57 IriX64 think i fixed it doing a raytrace right now.
03:00.08 brlcad implies something systemic is abnormal with your system
03:00.19 IriX64 hrmmph problem is bench is running too.
03:00.44 brlcad like it's abnormally busy doing way too many other things while the benchmark is running, or you have several benchmarks running simultaneously
03:01.27 IriX64 when are you going to use your overlap tool to fix the overlaps in havoc?
03:02.58 IriX64 benching bldg391 whil i'm raytracing havoc, get real.
03:03.41 brlcad fixing havoc is left as an exercise for someone in the community
03:05.09 IriX64 496829 rays in 12.38 secs = 40147.80 rays/sec (RTFM) and 496829 rays in 242.18 secs = 2051.49 rays/sec (Wallclock) that better?
03:05.33 IriX64 and bench just fixished.
03:06.32 IriX64 2844 times faster than the 780. not bad i guess.
03:08.05 IriX64 now how the heck did translate break (sigh)
03:10.37 IriX64 what do you *mean its the shift key not the ctrl key? (I'm in ramble on mode)
03:11.16 IriX64 got them backwards thats all ill just change the docs, cheap fix. :)
03:11.17 brlcad no that's not better
03:11.37 brlcad the rays/sec for wallclock shouldn't be more than 10% different from the RTFM rays/sec
03:11.54 IriX64 explain why.
03:12.36 brlcad you're currently at about 2000% different
03:12.43 Twingy cause you aint running anything else
03:12.50 brlcad i can't explain why without seeing what's going on
03:12.52 IriX64 but explain how its supposed to be 10%
03:12.53 Twingy brlcad, news on parallels licenses?
03:12.57 brlcad does it actually take 242 seconds to raytrace?
03:13.03 IriX64 yes
03:13.17 brlcad Twingy: beats me, i haven't been in to the office since well before siggy
03:13.29 Twingy are you on vacation?
03:13.47 brlcad not really
03:13.50 brlcad just haven't been back
03:13.56 brlcad it's only been a day
03:14.16 Twingy but darlene has the order right?
03:15.22 Twingy if not I'll have her order one for me
03:16.33 IriX64 perhaps itll help if we compare output devices?
03:17.08 brlcad i have no idea what the status is
03:19.17 Twingy k, if Wendy comaplains I will get Drew to order for me
03:21.47 brlcad IriX64: 9 chances out of 10, it's not a brl-cad configuration issue
03:21.59 brlcad it's something going on with your system
03:22.10 brlcad run top or something to see what's eating up cpu cycles
03:25.15 IriX64 at the moment loadavg is 0%
03:25.46 brlcad i find that hard to believe
03:25.50 brlcad what does uptime say?
03:25.57 IriX64 hey irc takes nothing.
03:26.04 IriX64 nothing else going on.
03:26.20 IriX64 let me check taskmanager.
03:26.31 brlcad ooh, you're on windows?
03:26.31 IriX64 both agree 0-1% load.
03:26.42 IriX64 sorta
03:26.56 brlcad softa? you either are or aren't :)
03:27.07 IriX64 do a ver on me.
03:27.27 brlcad that doesn't tell me anything about what kernel/OS you're running
03:27.27 IriX64 *nix high on windows. :)
03:27.40 brlcad only you know that
03:28.02 brlcad just by the fact that you have taskmanager though pretty much says it
03:28.07 IriX64 all right windows xp base running cygwin_nt
03:28.15 brlcad fair enough
03:28.21 Twingy and your nickname is Irix64 *boggle*
03:28.29 IriX64 you picked it.
03:28.37 brlcad i suspect you do have hidden processes running that are hiding themselves from the taskmanager
03:28.47 brlcad rather cpu-intensive ones
03:28.47 IriX64 no way
03:28.56 IriX64 i would know
03:28.58 brlcad heh
03:29.00 IriX64 err
03:29.06 brlcad and how praytell would you know?
03:29.13 IriX64 yah groaner :)
03:29.22 brlcad you have a massive indicator right there with the performance number
03:29.28 brlcad massive massive descrepancy
03:29.44 IriX64 on my system *everything that runs is given a name and entered into task manager
03:29.45 brlcad tis the nature of much spyware
03:30.03 IriX64 no empahtically no.
03:30.04 brlcad nah, you can run apps that are hidden from taskmanager
03:30.10 brlcad used to do that back in the day
03:30.12 IriX64 not *here.
03:30.21 Twingy I think you should install parallels rather than arguing with IriX64
03:30.30 brlcad you're on windows, it's possible
03:30.50 IriX64 what are parallels?
03:31.06 IriX64 ok brlcad its possible.
03:31.08 brlcad heck, it could even be a virus infected dll or other system-level injection
03:31.21 brlcad that could go completely undetected
03:31.29 IriX64 what do *you raytrace to?
03:31.41 brlcad parallels is a virtual machine
03:31.52 IriX64 vmware style?
03:31.52 brlcad sort of like vmware
03:31.52 brlcad but cheaper
03:32.01 brlcad less developer-feature-filled
03:32.11 IriX64 got os/2 warp 4 to run on vmware but what a slug.
03:32.12 brlcad but capable of running multiple simultaneous OS images
03:33.33 IriX64 i'm told brlcad can bench press three of ``Erik :)
03:35.12 brlcad not from the looks of his belly recently :) *ahem*
03:44.49 IriX64 you've seen my belly? *shrug* I don't hide it.
03:45.00 IriX64 :)
03:45.44 IriX64 you're wondering about me lets get peronal, I'm Mario and i'm class of 54.
03:46.07 IriX64 errrr personal too. :)
03:46.57 brlcad actually i meant erik's but good to know mario
03:47.06 IriX64 brlcad i put you in your early 40's?
03:47.32 brlcad nah, i'm a young whipper snapper
03:47.36 brlcad at least that's what I tell myself
03:47.47 IriX64 hah so do I.:)
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03:52.08 IriX64_ my night at the opera, see if you can find me.
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04:08.47 IriX64 back to shift grips :)
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04:18.14 IriX64 IriX64_: Doofus you said shift grips :)
04:25.38 IriX64 we were talking about rtfm to wallclock times, whats the ratio?
04:26.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: debugbu 2 immediately reports a bu_vls_free() error.. apparently been a problem since 4.5 days at least (bug found in doc/html/manuals/mged/bugs)
04:27.47 IriX64 bug i can bring up two instances of mged (or is this by design?)
04:28.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (Makefile.am bugs): get rid of doc/html/manuals/mged/bugs .. the main bug in there was verified to still be a problem and was added to the BUGS file. either way, we don't need this old 'bugs' file any more.
04:31.05 IriX64 may i send you my mged.exe?
04:32.13 IriX64 you think only cvs people are capable of contributing?
04:34.13 brlcad the rtfm rays/sec and the wallclock rays/sec should be within 10% of each otehr, so a ratio of .. 9:10 or thereabouts?
04:34.47 brlcad being able to run multiple mgeds is definitely by design
04:36.04 IriX64 9:10? lets define this, a ray is considered finished when?
04:37.18 brlcad there's documentation on the various values that I'd rather not describe over irc .. maybe read the benchmark.tr nroff document if you *really* want to know
04:37.35 brlcad but suffice it to say that they should NOT be that different rays/sec if everything is "normal"
04:37.51 IriX64 *really* yes.
04:39.49 brlcad rtfm takes into consideration several aspects outside of your control like how long it takes a process to start up only counting the CPU time that you are actually allocated
04:40.17 brlcad wallclock time counts the amount of actual time elapsed as measured by a clock
04:41.16 IriX64 how do you measure cpu time what function please clock() or time()?
04:41.20 brlcad those shouldn't only be within 10% .. they should be nearly identical .. but some systems are better than others and there's some minor variance based on how busy systems are, how long the context switches are, etc
04:41.53 IriX64 why dont i just look in the code :)
04:43.47 brlcad with yours as big as it is, it's pointing a big finger at there being something serious going on like something hogging the cpu or a bug in the wallclock computation code
04:44.04 brlcad the latter isn't the case as you mentioned that's about how long it takes
04:44.32 brlcad which is incredible as that is very very slow for the benchmark images
04:44.43 brlcad they should just take a few seconds per frame
04:47.11 IriX64 err brlcad: thats the output of raytraceing while actually rendering the image to the tube quite fast considering what its doing.
04:47.48 brlcad it should just take a few seconds to fully generate the image
04:48.03 IriX64 its a solid model brlcad think.
04:49.11 IriX64 i should send you a screen shot of my screen with one rendered, if i knew how i would.
04:49.55 IriX64 be back in a moment my attention is required outside.
04:52.04 brlcad i never said it wasn't a solid model
04:52.16 brlcad never said that I doubt it renders incorrectly either
04:52.31 brlcad s/incorrectly/correctly/
04:52.46 brlcad the only thing wrong is the performance.. that is WAY too slow
04:53.24 brlcad unless you're running XP on a 486 or something slower
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05:02.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (mug mug_camo): get rid of the old path
05:03.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/mged.tr: get rid of the old path
05:05.44 IriX64_ 486???
05:05.55 IriX64_ they still make those?
05:05.57 IriX64_ :)
05:07.19 IriX64_ ever hear of the dos game doom?
05:07.47 IriX64_ music and all, vmware suck my arse with your face :)
05:09.07 IriX64_ hairy virtualizing interrupt and dma and sundry hardware the game expects.
05:15.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 7 dirs): get rid of the old 'cad' path references/assumptions
05:16.36 IriX64_ simple concept really, you provide a dos environment and any dos program that expects a certain environment usually probes irq's and dma's and such if you feel the probe map it to whats really there if the program doesn't probe try to provide "generic" hardware.
05:30.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl_win.c: removed the replaced file. dm-ogl_win.c is no more, replaced by the dm-wgl.c interface file.
05:42.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/libtclcad.dsp: take a manual stab at an initial msvc build file for libtclcad (needed for the sketch editor)
05:49.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: make vers.c correctly rebuild if a source file changes
05:49.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: add the new windows build file to the dist
05:51.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: add libtclcad to the msvc brlcad dll build workspace
05:55.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: looks like bezier canvas support should now be available for both windows studio build projects. libtclcad should build sans tk sources now, try enabling it.
05:57.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: remove apparently dead code, 'do_2nd_attach_prompt()'
06:08.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c mged_dm.h): move the common_dm() decl over to mged_dm.h
06:16.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c vrlink.c): enable the 'pov' command, getting rid of the peculiar undocumented TCP_FILES define. move cmd_pov over to chgview.c like the comment suggests. (note that the command guts are over in librt)
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06:47.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (26 files): get rid of the libfb-specific _LOCAL_ macro, instead using HIDDEN like everyone else (currently still provided by machine.h)
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16:37.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/callbacks.tcl: quell warnings about mged_display not being set, make sure the variables even exist
16:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c:
16:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: add a lot of checks for valid pointers as part of isolating a 'P' binding crash
16:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: bug (sf bug 1375751: P shuts down mged). the crash was the result of a bus
16:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: error inside of Tcl_AppendResult of all places, where the second
16:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Tcl_AppendResult() after the one inside not_state() would cause a crash. this
16:44.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: may indicate some other interp initialization problem, but the fix in place does
16:44.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: seem to keep things going nicely.
16:56.18 ``Erik hm
16:58.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: not_state() now reports the desired state too, so no need for the extra printing
16:59.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/buttons.c: print out the expected/desired state so the user has a clue as to what to do to resolve the problem when not in the right editing mode.
17:00.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: not_state now reports the desired state, so no need to print a message. be consistent with the printing and the command name category (sedit).
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17:02.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed mged crash on P binding when not in edit mode. this fixes sf bug 1375751 (P shuts down mged) reported by bob2.
18:02.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): incremental update this time.. change MAX_LIGHT_SAMPLES to SOME_LIGHT_SAMPLES
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18:08.15 IriX64 what was that about a pencil tapping your teeth?
18:08.42 IriX64 easy,easy,money and your chicks for free, right fatso :)
18:09.49 IriX64 the doc says it's good for you ;)
18:10.59 IriX64 should look that formula up, make some easy money, only how do i get Canada to tap their teeth with a lead pencil?
18:13.53 IriX64 Captains mess, anyone ;)
18:14.45 IriX64 mater and pater are here, be back in a bit.
18:23.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: be sure to delete static and other 'regular' or noinst libraries during a make noprod
18:24.10 IriX64 visit successfull :)
18:29.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): next step in the incremental update, dynamically allocate the light sample points array instead of using a fixed size.
18:33.47 IriX64 brlcad: i still can't get this math right, 2.61 secs RTFM 56.97 secs wallclock.
18:34.18 IriX64 havoc.g
18:35.13 IriX64 but its consistent across runs.
18:37.14 IriX64 lets try bldg391.
18:38.39 IriX64 1.25 rtfm 11.91 wallclock
18:39.37 IriX64 lets try the deuce and a 1/2
18:51.10 IriX64 5.56 rtfm 93.55 wallclock
18:52.13 IriX64 whats your e-mail, ill send you a .jpg shot of my screen.
18:54.01 IriX64 pastebin doesn't allow jpgs.
18:54.10 brlcad jpg of your screen isn't useful
18:54.24 IriX64 what do you need to help out here?
18:55.14 brlcad I'd start by installing some antivirus and antispyware software and see what all comes up
18:55.26 IriX64 all right.
18:56.29 brlcad clamAV is free, not sure how good their antispyware is though
18:56.45 IriX64 truck looks good though, nice green field its sitting on.
18:57.43 IriX64 gold tipped exhaust pipe... nothings to good for the military. :)
18:57.45 brlcad this looks good: http://www.spywareterminator.com/
18:58.07 IriX64 i'll try mcaffee first.
18:59.08 brlcad mcafee sells a separate anti-spyware product if all you have is their antivirus
18:59.28 brlcad virus will be good to check for .. but should be sure to check for both
18:59.33 IriX64 think i bought the full package, ill dig it out and see.
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19:19.08 IriX64 look brlcad: it takes time to draw an image on the screen, theres no way your 10% figure can apply.
19:22.58 IriX64 ill either dcc send you a screenshot with the figures on it or ill e-mail it to you.
19:23.09 IriX64 and the picture on it.
19:24.23 IriX64 e-mail address?
19:24.55 IriX64 everythings clearly visible.
19:25.23 brlcad if it takes 20x the ray-trace time, it would imply a serious bug
19:25.40 brlcad and I've run ray-traces on windows and don't see that sort of different
19:26.17 IriX64 all right how long does *yours take to draw the m35 on your screen, im talking about the solid model picture, not the wire frame.
19:26.46 IriX64 err pardon? windows?
19:26.47 brlcad here's what moss looks like for me: 759710.95 rays/sec (RTFM) 748857.07 rays/sec (wallclock)
19:27.11 IriX64 it renders that fast?
19:27.29 IriX64 im not talking make benchmark here.
19:27.47 IriX64 thats the shot summary im getting my numbers from.
19:28.11 brlcad this has nothing to do with the model or benchmark
19:28.25 brlcad it's just relative performance numbers
19:28.32 brlcad doesn't matter what model either
19:28.56 IriX64 screw its accuarate i used a stop watch. off by maybe a second or two but its accyrate.
19:29.06 IriX64 accurate too.
19:29.24 brlcad sure, it's accurate
19:29.27 IriX64 the math, she's good :)
19:29.39 brlcad it's not once been a question to ME whether the values were being computed correctly
19:29.45 brlcad this is pretty stable code
19:30.09 IriX64 *shrug* my code becomes stable with age too :)
19:30.25 brlcad which is exactly why it points at something wrong with your system, why must I keep repeating this?? :)
19:30.38 brlcad i personally don't really care
19:30.42 brlcad it's your system
19:30.49 brlcad but it does indicate some serious problem
19:31.03 IriX64 all right send me the pix of moss (mario.dulisse2@sympatico.ca)
19:31.04 brlcad not a problem with brl-cad or how the ray-trace runs
19:31.14 brlcad or what the results look like
19:31.19 brlcad that is ALL fine
19:31.26 brlcad what is wrong is how slow/fast it's running for you
19:31.51 brlcad you're not going to SEE anything related to this problem with a pix
19:31.59 brlcad other than it rendering slow
19:32.13 brlcad is this not clear??
19:32.18 IriX64 you expect the pix to just appear?
19:32.36 IriX64 drawing an image on the tube can not be that fast.
19:33.10 brlcad some images are pretty much immediate, others not more than a few seconds
19:33.19 brlcad you're looking at several minutes on your system
19:34.17 brlcad you mentioned m35 rendering - how long does it take m35 to raytrace into a 512x512 window?
19:34.39 IriX64 yes anyway im happy thanks, ill get that mcaffee dug out. lost everything in a crash 3 months ago and am slow to getting around to restoring some things.
19:35.18 brlcad *shrug* .. if it is systemic, it means something else basically has control of your system :)
19:36.22 IriX64 512x512 just a sec
19:36.47 brlcad you mentioned cygwin, that could be causing a big performance penalty of some sort -- haven't looked at the numbers there in a while
19:37.01 IriX64 65.17 wallclock and 3.84 rtfm.
19:37.50 brlcad see -- that means it only spent 4 seconds on the cpu .. but for "some" reason more than a minute elapsed from the time the ray-trace began until it completed
19:38.21 brlcad there wasn't more than 3.84 seconds worth of work, but something slowed it down
19:38.29 IriX64 of course because the pixels have to be lit or turned off sheesh.
19:38.39 brlcad that could be a virus, spyware, cygwin.. something else
19:39.03 brlcad i'd be surprised if cygwin was _that_ bad at I/O
19:39.29 IriX64 you using a hardware x?
19:40.49 IriX64 rember there two layers of graphics here windows and xserver althought the screens are seamless theres still graphic overhead to contend with.
19:43.08 IriX64 need a smoke be back shortly.
19:43.11 brlcad there's not any configuration setup that should have a discrepancy as large as yours is :)
19:46.23 ``Erik *yawn*
19:47.43 ``Erik heh, sean, I did an update and now libfb doesn't want to compile, it's seeing two do_event()s defined, and HIDDEN is reducing to /***/ instead of static o.O what'd you do tot he thing?
19:48.26 ``Erik <-- hacked his if_X.c if_wgl.c and if_glx.c to change the func name to like do_X_event() or do_wgl_event depending on file.. think that would be worth a commit?
19:48.46 brlcad ``Erik: yeah, I know .. i have a fix for that here
19:49.38 brlcad there's a few of them
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20:02.35 IriX64 brlcad: you are a very patient man, thanks for the input.
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22:07.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: final mod to allow for arbitrary counts of light point samples. the point sample array is allocated in batches of SOME_LIGHT_SAMPLES.
22:16.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_stack.c: avoid debug mode namespace conflicts with libfb's stack interface (where HIDDEN becomes /**/)
22:16.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_null.c: avoid debug mode namespace conflicts with libfb's null interface (where HIDDEN becomes /**/)
22:17.48 ``Erik sean, you doing the 'week off after siggraph' thing?
22:18.44 dtidrow_work c'mon, SIGGRAPH _is_ a week off ;-)
22:18.59 dtidrow_work 'cept for the parties...
22:19.03 ``Erik heh
22:19.09 ``Erik yeah, last year, I hurt my ankle pretty bad
22:19.22 ``Erik falling down, uh, stairs, at a nightclub, for an afterparty
22:19.22 ``Erik heh
22:19.28 ``Erik <-- retarded
22:19.30 dtidrow_work which one?
22:19.51 ``Erik hrm? which club? or which party?
22:19.58 ``Erik it was at 'the mayan' in downtown la
22:19.59 dtidrow_work which party
22:20.08 ``Erik I don't remember who was throwing it
22:20.19 ``Erik some flyers were handed out
22:20.22 ``Erik like the acm one or something
22:20.25 dtidrow_work that's where the chapters party was, right?
22:20.32 ``Erik yeah, I think that was it
22:20.35 ``Erik that sounds familiar
22:20.37 dtidrow_work k
22:20.43 dtidrow_work was there too :-)
22:20.51 ``Erik with the stirppers dancing on the boxes?
22:20.54 ``Erik 'cept they didn't strip
22:20.55 ``Erik heh
22:21.02 dtidrow_work yeah
22:21.07 ``Erik and the big circular thing they were playing crap on
22:21.15 ``Erik <-- stayed there pretty late
22:21.17 dtidrow_work we nicknamed them the 'anime dancers' :-)
22:21.27 ``Erik y'know the ampitheater seating on the upper level?
22:21.31 dtidrow_work yep
22:21.41 ``Erik I was walking down those, hit a corner of a stemp with my heal trying to get into the seating
22:21.47 dtidrow_work ouch
22:21.54 ``Erik black on black, smoke, dark, vodka... bad mojo
22:22.07 dtidrow_work yep
22:22.17 ``Erik came down on my ankle and butt, was hobbling out, coulnd't move it the next morning
22:22.35 ``Erik when I got a 5am call to fix a diskless cluster
22:22.37 dtidrow_work was awfully expensive this year - $7 for a Sam Adams
22:22.46 ``Erik ew
22:22.47 dtidrow_work that's one bottle
22:22.59 ``Erik hah, go down the street and buy a 6 for less, hah
22:23.13 dtidrow_work I can get a six-pack of them for $7.50
22:23.41 ``Erik huh, I've seen sam cheaper
22:23.43 dtidrow_work was sorely tempted to go on the brewery tour, as the brewery was only about 5-6 miles away from my hotel
22:24.02 ``Erik heh
22:24.08 ``Erik this year?
22:24.12 dtidrow_work yep
22:24.18 dtidrow_work Boston
22:24.30 ``Erik I wanted to go, but there was a clamp put down on all travel that I couldn't squirm out from under
22:24.36 dtidrow_work ick
22:24.36 ``Erik so I had to call in, cancel my hotel reservation, etc
22:24.42 ``Erik sucked
22:24.50 dtidrow_work indeed
22:25.06 ``Erik now they're trying to send me to utah for some realtime raytracing convention
22:25.44 dtidrow_work there were several papers about that this year, or maybe courses
22:26.17 ``Erik there have been for a while
22:26.20 ``Erik and all the same players, heh
22:26.27 ``Erik slusallek, etc
22:29.20 dtidrow_work lol
22:35.18 dtidrow_work guess he's totally distracted
22:36.24 ``Erik he must have a sexy piece of code keeping him distracted
22:37.05 dtidrow_work heh
22:47.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_ogl.c if_wgl.c): avoid debug mode namespace conflicts when multiple interfaces are compiled and HIDDEN becomes /**/)
22:49.09 brlcad mm.. sexy code indeed
22:49.52 brlcad ``Erik: not the entire week
22:50.10 brlcad i'm on a coding roll on many fronts
22:50.22 ``Erik ah, I was hoping in your aid in something... I can wait if you'd rather not be arsed with my issues :)
22:50.30 brlcad it'll be all over once I go in, so I'm going with the flow
22:51.37 brlcad feel free to ask, if it's too complicated I'll defer, but not likely
22:51.37 ``Erik (mem leak in my shot routine, I not grokin' something)
22:51.59 brlcad set bu_debug to 2
22:52.39 brlcad basic bounds checks, won't catch the leak of course, but it's a start
22:54.28 ``Erik that's a lot of info
22:55.48 ``Erik nothing about allocations and deallocations, though
23:11.28 brlcad hmm.. shouldn't be "a lot" .. note that one flag is for rt_debug, another for bn, and another for bu
23:12.20 brlcad i mean, it'll be a lot of messages .. the ones that are provided during bu_malloc/bu_free/etc
23:32.35 IriX64 try my_free(char *ptr) {free(ptr);ptr=NULL;}
23:34.40 IriX64 or my_free(char *ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL}}
23:38.11 IriX64 rtshot or show shot ``Erik?
23:41.56 IriX64 in rtshot you have two allocs but no free's. kosher?
23:47.36 IriX64 sigh my memory leaks constantly, silicon might help ;)
23:49.28 IriX64 err my_free(char* ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL;return(ptr)}}return;
23:49.44 IriX64 been awhile :)
23:50.13 IriX64 err my_free(char* ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL;return(ptr)}}return(ptr);
23:51.44 IriX64 make distclean
23:52.03 IriX64 should have auto switching windows... sorry.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060809

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060809

00:18.38 IriX64 void main(int argc,char* argv){char * ptr; ptr=malloc(something or other); ptr=my_free(ptr); return(0);}
00:23.08 IriX64 try it with calloc(x,y) ;)
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08:37.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/mged/tedit.c NEWS TODO): (log message trimmed)
08:37.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: fairly comprehensive rewrite of tedit() for the ted command that merges the
08:37.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: windows version in with the unix version in what should be a pretty platform
08:37.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: independent manner. this version tries a lot harder to find a usable editor
08:37.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: other than /bin/ed including checking EDITOR even on Windows (there was some bug
08:37.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: report for this, but can't find it atm). it'll also kick off TextEdit on Mac OS
08:37.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: X now as well as trying emacs and vi, before falling back on jove as the editor
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15:19.11 rossberg brlcad: why do i need libtclcad in brlcad.dll?
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17:59.01 IriX64 reboot bbiab.
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21:23.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw:
21:23.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: libtclcad isn't really needed for the library build for most ray-trace purpose
21:23.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: applications. it'd only be useful if someone wanted to manually compile the
21:23.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: mged sources and then use this to link against. since that doesn't currently
21:23.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: seem to be a need, going ahead and reverting/removing it.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060810

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060810

00:25.42 *** join/#brlcad iday_ (n=iday@c-68-55-177-228.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:26.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: when making a release, utilize the NEWS file as appropriate as a basis for making release announcements. either way, the announcements almost ALWAYS require tailored customization.
00:29.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: lots of new ideas to do. full precision support, c++ geometry API, geometry voxelizer, geometry/image converter libraries, validation tests confirming various computations.
00:40.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: quell warning
00:46.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (dm-tk.h Makefile.am): add initial DM_TK interface header (from Tim Myers)
00:56.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fbio.h: initial steps for a Tk interface, if IF_TK is defined
01:01.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-tk.c Makefile.am): add initial DM_TK interface (from Tim Myers)
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01:05.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_generic.c: add Tk to the list of known interfaces if IF_TK is defined
01:06.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_tk.c Makefile.am): add an initial Tk framebuffer interface (implemented by Tim Myers), disabled from the build for now
01:13.34 IriX64 while(strstr(string1,"xyz")); do whatever with xyz ;)
01:14.40 IriX64 err add a ! in appropriate place ;)
01:14.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: decouple from libfb, don't bother trying to autosize the image based on the file name -- use the provided size
01:16.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: liboptical is once again no longer dependent upon libfb
01:16.22 IriX64 pure drivel strstr returns the string found.
01:16.35 IriX64 err ptr to the string found.
01:17.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_plastic.c: PM_Visualize is not used if this is RT_MULTISPECTRAL, protect accordingly so we don't end up with undefined symbols
01:40.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-tk.c Makefile.am): initial DM_TK mged wrapper interface to libdm's interface (written by Tim Myers) disabled from build for now
02:07.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-X.c: cleanup the lengthy repetition of pub_vars and priv_vars using some local vars pointers, ws too
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05:10.57 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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08:35.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: remove asize.c file -- was refactored into src/libfb/asize.c
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08:42.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
08:42.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: remove the obsolete regular expression implementation in src/libsysv,
08:42.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: using the more up-to-date in src/other/libregex
08:45.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: remove the deleted regular expression implementation files
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13:51.38 brlcad ahh, nice cleanup rossberg
13:52.09 brlcad trying to get into a habit of editing the dsp files too.. their format is relatively simple enough to directly edit
14:01.33 ``Erik heh
14:18.44 rossberg brlcad: yes it is, i do it the same way (this way i keep the english comments)
14:21.00 rossberg but it looks like you windows-linefeed trick won't work, i get 0d-0d-0a-0d-0d-0a after checkout on windows
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15:10.43 ``Erik nice
15:50.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: several of the converters (e.g. dxf-g) assume newlines and do not take carriage returns into account
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20:17.08 IriX64 CFLAGS='-DTARGET=i586-unix-beos' configure <===== works, will wonders never cease.
20:18.21 IriX64 so this is a beos apache-2.0.59 sweet.
20:19.15 IriX64 urmf i should probably not have posted that in the BRLCAD channel though :)
20:22.55 dtidrow_work heh
20:29.52 IriX64 :)
20:30.33 IriX64 Celine Dionne, A new Day Has Come albumn, don't leave home without it.:)
20:34.23 dtidrow_work you trying to drive the rest of us away? ;-)
20:35.45 IriX64 whats your favorite?
20:35.50 IriX64 :)
20:36.18 dtidrow_work depends on the day
20:42.09 IriX64 Tues.
20:43.04 dtidrow_work heh
20:43.12 IriX64 :)
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23:39.42 dli any doc for a total n00b?
23:41.07 dli good, I found them on brlcad.org
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060811

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060811

00:18.03 brlcad that's the best place to start
00:18.42 brlcad in particular, the intro to mged and the quick reference, followed by principles of effective modeling
00:19.19 dli brlcad, thanks
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04:52.34 IriX64 so have you adopted my_free yet?
04:59.18 brlcad heh
04:59.40 brlcad already have it, it's called bu_free() ;)
05:04.31 IriX64 i said round, but thanks ;)
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06:32.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: xosdefs.h? how about searching for X11/Xosdefs.h instead
06:34.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c): HAVE_XOSDEFS_H was a conf.h fictional, update to new configure check for HAVE_X11_XOSDEFS_H and clean up header foo some.
06:43.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-X.c: oops .. they are x_vars, not dm_xvars
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08:21.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: several of the max screen size values were increased or reworked, revisit bug
08:27.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: intel compiler was tested, it's pretty sweet. still need to add the configure detection, though. also most warnings are quelled finally, time to move on to the verbose warnings soon..
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12:10.08 brlcad hmm
12:16.39 clock_ brlcad: hi
12:20.10 ValarQ hello clock and mr Cad
12:25.07 brlcad ciao ciao clock_ ValarQ
12:27.24 clock_ brlcad: yesterday we weree waxing down our surfboards with Sex Wax :)
12:54.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: disable logging for now until it can be tied to OPTIMIZED too
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13:26.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fbhelp sends some of the output to stdout and some to stderr
13:28.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: expand exported symbols list
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14:30.24 dli how do I select prim?
14:31.00 dli the Edit menu entry is gray, and the command " draw <obj>" does nothing
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15:14.14 brlcad dli: you have to specify what geometry you want it to draw
15:14.49 brlcad then when you've drawn/loaded geometry, you can specify a selection for edit or other operation
15:15.30 brlcad dli: the n00b docs cover this in one of the first lessons too fwiw ;)
15:16.56 brlcad in short .. you can 1) run the geometry browser and use it to display geometry or 2) use tops, get a list of objects, run "e some_object" to display that object, use Edit menu or sed 'some_oject' to edit a primitve
15:17.14 brlcad just two of several ways to do that as well
15:21.22 dli brlcad, thanks
15:24.36 dli brlcad, the 2nd way, in Edit menu, the "Prim Selection" is gray, " sed " gives Error: Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT state.
15:30.59 brlcad dli: oh, it sounds like you're already in solid edit mode on some object? is there a reject/apply/accept option?
15:32.11 dli brlcad, got it, after rejection, it works now
15:32.34 brlcad yeah, helps to not be in edit mode ;)
15:32.46 brlcad hooray for modality errors
15:33.57 dli brlcad, can I get 2D drawing finally? the classical ones, with dimensions
15:34.31 dli brlcad, I can see there are Front/Top/Side views, but I don't see a way to get dimensions on them
15:36.20 ``Erik heh, 'draft' mode seems to be getting a lot of requests o.O :)
15:36.25 clock_ dli: no support yet
15:37.09 dli clock_, then, I have to work with bugs of qcad
15:49.04 clock_ dli: I have to work with bugs of qcad too
15:49.14 clock_ dli: especially the one that it cannot be compiled on OpenBSD ;-)
15:51.58 dli clock_, it compiles :( but it has serious font problem, also, dashed ellipse shown as solid lines, it can not trim ellipse arc
15:53.19 clock_ dli: how did you compile it?
15:53.23 clock_ What version are you using?
15:54.04 dli clock_, 2.0.4.0-r1 in gentoo
15:54.15 clock_ dli: ah Gentoo I said on OpenBSD
15:54.33 dli clock_, I mean it compiles here :(
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16:51.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor clean, and changed some logic in shot to fix a memory leak.
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17:52.26 brlcad ahh, ``Erik found it?
17:54.01 ``Erik yeah
17:54.26 ``Erik some fishy logic had an RT_GET_SEG that never got to a BU_LIST_INSERT
17:56.20 ``Erik <-- special
17:58.52 ``Erik msot of this morning was getting a fresh debug version on a single proc machine, heh :)
18:05.06 brlcad so, compiling on your O2 again,eh? :)
18:06.53 ``Erik hah, no, the 1.8ghz fbsd thingie
18:06.55 ``Erik my mp3 player
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19:43.33 ``Erik 10293 vgr's, not too shabby
19:45.24 brlcad not too shabby
19:49.25 brlcad that's optimized I hope?
19:49.42 brlcad curious how well --disable-runtime-debug improves that score
19:49.46 ``Erik um, yeah, but still with debugging
19:50.07 brlcad debugging isn't really much but cache coherency related, maybe 1-2% at best
19:50.17 brlcad running strip and you have the same
19:50.32 ``Erik yeah
19:50.44 ``Erik bah, you bastard
19:50.46 brlcad --disable-runtime-debug, however, is completely different
19:50.59 ``Erik $ sh autogen.sh
19:50.59 ``Erik INTERNAL ERROR: dirname/basename inconsistency: autogen.sh != ./autogen.sh
19:51.04 brlcad it disabled the plethora of run-time validity checks that just bomb
19:51.09 brlcad heh
19:51.52 brlcad comment it out
19:52.01 brlcad or fix it :)
19:52.21 ``Erik meh, I ran it as ./autogen.sh
19:54.47 brlcad yep, that's denoted in the BUGS file .. noticed that over a year ago
19:55.19 brlcad no biggie, you can run it installed from anywhere and just point RT to the one just compiled
19:55.29 brlcad RT=path/to/RT benchmark
19:56.11 brlcad or even: RT=path/to/rt make benchmark
19:58.14 brlcad interesting.. "dirname autogen.sh" reports "."
19:59.14 brlcad heh, sh ./autogen.sh would have worked too
20:04.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: if autogen.sh exists, consider it good enough. otherwise then print error cruftage.
20:09.44 ``Erik 11555 vgr's
20:10.44 ``Erik like 12.2% gain
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20:22.56 dtidrow_work 11555 - nice :-)
20:27.30 dtidrow_work best I've gotten on this box is 2335
20:29.35 brlcad dtidrow_work: did you try --disable-runtime-deubg ?
20:30.43 dtidrow_work nope, wasn't aware of it
20:30.50 dtidrow_work just did 'make benchmark'
20:31.24 dtidrow_work '--disable-runtime-deubg' - is that a configure option?
20:48.03 brlcad ahhh
20:48.15 brlcad yes, it's a configure option
20:48.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the sys/prctl.h header .. it declares sproc()
20:48.30 brlcad helps to not repeat my typo too :) .. "debug"
20:49.04 brlcad ./configure --enable-optimized --disable-debug --disable-runtime-debug should give a fairly optimal run-time result
20:49.47 dtidrow_work heh - back in 40min then ;-)
20:51.13 brlcad after a make clean of course to clear out the proevious build
20:51.25 dtidrow_work yep - compiling now
20:51.32 brlcad that should pretty much double your performance unless the previous was already --enable-optimized
20:51.46 dtidrow_work which it was
20:52.02 dtidrow_work that boosted it from ~1700 to 2335
20:52.04 brlcad so then you might get anywhere from 10-30% from disabling run-time debug
20:52.18 brlcad surprisingly low boost actually
20:52.37 dtidrow_work this is a 4-year-old box :-\
20:52.41 brlcad commodity platform?
20:52.53 dtidrow_work Dell 670 from '02
20:53.04 dtidrow_work 530, rather
20:53.19 brlcad implies either the compiler is doing a pretty good job optimizing at -O0 or is doing a horrible job at -O3
20:53.22 dtidrow_work dual 2GHz Xeons with HT turned on
20:53.47 brlcad or a little bit of both probably more likely
20:53.48 dtidrow_work running FC4
20:54.25 dtidrow_work gcc 4.0.2
20:55.24 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
21:14.53 dtidrow_work brlcad: getting an error in the compilation, though it seems weird
21:14.57 dtidrow_work make[1]: Entering directory `/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.8.2/pix'
21:14.57 dtidrow_work make[1]: *** No rule to make target `bldg391.pix', needed by `all-am'. Stop.
21:14.57 dtidrow_work make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.8.2/pix'
21:15.16 dtidrow_work why would it be making stuff in the 'pix' dir?
21:19.10 brlcad hrm, that is odd
21:19.52 brlcad sounds like file(s) have been deleted
21:20.07 dtidrow_work yeah, something got screwed
21:20.10 brlcad ooh
21:20.25 brlcad you said you did make benchmark?
21:20.29 dtidrow_work yeah
21:20.43 brlcad did you also run configure with --enable-only-benchmark?
21:20.49 dtidrow_work nope
21:20.52 brlcad hrmph
21:21.06 brlcad is that pix file in the pix/ dir?
21:21.24 dtidrow_work don't see it there
21:21.37 dtidrow_work wait a minute, let me check again
21:22.16 dtidrow_work there's a "bldg391.pix.22980"
21:22.41 brlcad ahh, sounds like you maybe deleted the reference images at some point
21:22.44 dtidrow_work looks like a process-id added onto the end, like from a previous benchmark run
21:22.52 dtidrow_work hmmm
21:23.09 dtidrow_work maybe I should just nuke the whole thing and start fresh from the tarball
21:23.20 brlcad when you run benchmark, it dumps out a lot of pix files, backing up existing as .PID files
21:24.29 brlcad yeah, starting fresh is probably best
21:25.11 dtidrow_work easy enough
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21:28.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canon.h: use the newly added HAVE_SYS_PRCTL_H so we can check whether PR_SALL and PR_SFDS are provided by the sproc interface for working with dslib.
21:31.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (canonlib.c ipuscan.c ipustat.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): header cleanup
21:31.23 brlcad dtidrow_work: do you happen to have any experience with mosix?
21:31.39 dtidrow_work nope, what is it?
21:31.54 brlcad it's a cluster operating system
21:32.16 brlcad provides virtual shared memory, automatic process migration among nodes, load balancing, etc
21:32.18 dtidrow_work ah, that's why it sounds vaguely familiar
21:32.35 IriX64 obviously not a vax cluster. :)
21:32.38 brlcad SMP style, not the distributed independent MPI/PVM style
21:34.19 IriX64 Qnix?
21:34.23 IriX64 :)
21:34.45 IriX64 your comeback should be *nix ;)
21:44.01 IriX64 would pay for a screen shot of your system brlcad, if thats what you're running.
21:52.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: quell 64bit warning
21:56.07 dtidrow_work I'd love to see what the benchmark on this monster comes out as: http://www.boxxtech.com/products/apexx8.asp
21:58.16 brlcad ooh, sweet hardware
21:58.59 dtidrow_work indeed :-)
21:59.17 dtidrow_work think they had a demo system of that @SIGGRAPH
21:59.18 brlcad I'd bet/hope something on the order of 30k vgr if not better
21:59.33 dtidrow_work I never did get a good look in that booth
21:59.35 brlcad rough quote?
21:59.50 dtidrow_work guessing around $30k
22:01.16 dtidrow_work k, the latest bench run came out at 2556
22:01.42 brlcad hm, so about 10% too
22:01.55 dtidrow_work something like that
22:02.13 dtidrow_work I just need a new box ;-)
22:02.34 dtidrow_work the rambus memory probably isn't helping, either
22:03.00 brlcad seems reasonable.. the higher end 30% numbers are mostly on much older hardware, especially systems like irix 5 that can get branch predictions wrong a lot
22:04.03 brlcad nice to see almost every test more than a million rays/sec :)
22:04.04 dtidrow_work which altix system?
22:04.11 brlcad it's a 12 node
22:04.19 dtidrow_work nice
22:04.29 brlcad 1.4
22:04.40 dtidrow_work too bad it's from S_I
22:11.00 brlcad 13574 vgr
22:13.26 ``Erik that the 12 or the 16?
22:13.58 brlcad the 12
22:14.17 ``Erik 1131 vgr's per core, opposed to the amd64's 2889 vgrs per core :)
22:14.25 brlcad yup
22:14.29 ``Erik *stomp* hehehe
22:14.46 brlcad considerably more spensive too.. though way better on I/O
22:14.56 ``Erik *nod*
22:15.21 ``Erik if the amd had the same class of disk, it'd be smokin' too, though
22:17.46 brlcad not just disk, their cray interconnect stuff is just nice
22:18.06 brlcad i think that more than anything is what gets the compile down so fast
22:18.56 brlcad mind you that vgr is also on a machine that is probably about 3-4 years old, cluster is at least 6-12 months newer
22:19.30 brlcad i mean, the new macbooks are almost 5k ..
22:20.21 brlcad that puts one single xserve in the ballpark of that altix
22:20.31 brlcad and the cluster
22:21.46 brlcad that boxx apex system is sweet though.. if the specs match up, that really could be as much as 20-30k vgrs
22:22.11 IriX64 you people are spoled rotten :)
22:22.24 IriX64 spoiled too.
22:22.35 dtidrow_work what's the new 'vgr'?
22:22.47 brlcad though at $30k, you'd get more bang per buck with 8 xserves.. should be about 80k vgrs
22:22.47 dtidrow_work is that the altix?
22:23.12 dtidrow_work that $30k was just a guess
22:23.13 brlcad no no.. vgr baseline is unchanged
22:23.16 IriX64 reguts.c line 58 NDEBUG redefined guys.
22:23.29 dtidrow_work still the ancient VAX?
22:23.42 brlcad IriX64: there is no reguts.c
22:23.50 IriX64 eh?
22:24.05 IriX64 my mistake :(
22:24.18 IriX64 must be mine.
22:24.27 IriX64 it is.
22:24.36 brlcad dtidrow_work: the physical hardware for VGR was decommissioned about 5 years ago iirc, but we still have the performance metrics
22:24.57 dtidrow_work that's what I thought
22:25.06 brlcad i've been looking at using vax running in simh to keep it maintainable indefinitely
22:25.39 brlcad i set up the vax in there and got netbsd installed with not too much hassle, few source edits, some kernel trickery to get data in the machine
22:25.41 dtidrow_work Chris Johnson was messing around with that at one time
22:25.54 brlcad yeah, we were talking about that a year or two ago
22:26.42 brlcad wouldn't take too much work (one would imagine) to throttle simh so that it consistently computes an exact 1.0 vgr
22:26.49 IriX64 regguts.h sorry.
22:27.02 ``Erik heh
22:27.08 brlcad IriX64: that's tcl, not our code
22:27.33 brlcad any warnings in src/other are "not our problem"
22:27.42 IriX64 never mind its legit i disable debug and symbols.
22:27.47 ``Erik but netbsd instead of bsd4.3? you're not afraid of library differences or kernel differences skewing things? :)
22:27.48 brlcad I only care fix code in there if it fails
22:27.50 IriX64 disabled too.
22:28.05 ``Erik or are you gonna try to redefine the vgr o.O
22:28.15 brlcad you have a copy of 4.3 lying around? :)
22:28.23 ``Erik I bet kermit has the tapes
22:28.24 brlcad i would have gone for anything
22:28.30 brlcad but open crapped on it
22:28.38 brlcad and wasn't even going to attempt free
22:28.48 ``Erik old fbsd might've
22:28.50 brlcad net was seamless
22:29.19 ``Erik be interesting seeing how many vgr's a vgr class machine gets with a different(ish) os
22:29.23 dtidrow_work http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=39966 - says that a maxed one would be around $80k
22:29.23 brlcad yeah, maybe old, but net was clean and very simple
22:29.31 brlcad eek
22:29.58 dtidrow_work likely fully loaded with memory and disks
22:30.26 dtidrow_work which means 128GB RAM and 7-10TB of disk
22:30.26 brlcad that's like 16 xserves loaded .. different architecture of course, but if the vgr count was primae fascia importance..
22:30.40 dtidrow_work and one system image
22:30.41 brlcad makes for a beautiful deskside SMP station, though, gotta admit
22:31.11 dtidrow_work the new BFM9000 ;-)
22:31.25 brlcad pretty much :)
22:32.05 dtidrow_work brlcad: when did you start up there at ARL?
22:32.11 brlcad if I had the new cad website up with the benchmark database.. I'd certainly be working on getting simh going with some stable setup
22:32.28 brlcad dtidrow_work: about 7 years ago
22:32.30 brlcad thereabouts
22:32.38 dtidrow_work did you ever make it down to NVL?
22:32.44 brlcad NO!
22:32.47 brlcad i wish i had
22:32.48 dtidrow_work heh
22:33.33 brlcad that's a connection that unfortunately was lost with the loss oD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Df m.m.
22:33.43 brlcad er, that was wierd
22:34.11 dtidrow_work glitch in the matrix? ;-)
22:34.20 brlcad i think so
22:34.35 dtidrow_work lol
22:34.39 ``Erik mr anderson...
22:35.14 brlcad so.. ``Erik .. the freebsd ports thing
22:35.29 ``Erik um, hrm?
22:35.41 brlcad assuming it's all worky worky now for using a system tcl/tk
22:35.49 ``Erik no
22:36.01 brlcad i'm playing with the idea of having multiple independent projects
22:36.14 ``Erik when it starts up, it look for tcl paths and only gets the brlcad/crap path, since it only search for one path
22:36.23 ``Erik or, it did last I looked
22:36.31 brlcad yeah, I mean aside from that.. still have to fix that ;)
22:36.53 ``Erik well, asking it to use the system tcl and tk si trivial, I've tried it a few times
22:36.59 ``Erik but until that is fixed, it's unusable
22:37.17 brlcad how much work you think it'll be to support having multiple ports packages as well as the main kitchen sink one?
22:37.24 ``Erik uh
22:37.29 ``Erik why would it be multiple ports packages?
22:37.44 brlcad 18:36 <@brlcad> i'm playing with the idea of having multiple independent projects
22:37.57 ``Erik ah, heh
22:37.57 brlcad so that if I only wanted some piece.. i could install just that
22:37.59 ``Erik well
22:38.01 brlcad e.g. libpkg
22:38.06 brlcad or the raytrace library
22:38.10 brlcad or just mged
22:38.13 brlcad or just the converters, etc
22:38.27 ``Erik um, if it's broken into like 30 projects, that would be difficult to get flying with the comitters and core
22:38.28 brlcad (see doc/PROJECTS for what'd probably be the list)
22:38.39 brlcad more like 10
22:39.01 brlcad howso? I've seen other ports that are broken up that way
22:39.10 ``Erik into 2 or 3
22:39.13 brlcad especially the big ones, gtk is a prime example
22:39.15 ``Erik ...
22:39.27 ``Erik heh, gtk is broken into gtk and glib
22:39.29 ``Erik ...
22:39.43 ``Erik and lots of other programs started using glib without gdk and gtk, so it was broken up
22:39.55 brlcad it works, though
22:40.06 brlcad there are several projects in brl-cad that really stand on their own
22:40.23 brlcad some are already in ports as a separate project even :) (ttcp)
22:40.53 ``Erik yeah, ttcp, jove, ...
22:41.14 ``Erik if you do it, I could try to create a bunch of ports and see if they fly
22:41.31 brlcad we don't "own" jove, but we technically do ttcp even if there are "patched versions" out there now that have more features
22:41.45 ``Erik heh
22:41.50 ``Erik about as much as we own ping...
22:41.57 brlcad i'm just wondering how much trouble it'd be
22:42.06 brlcad nah, ttcp hasn't changed nearly as much as ping has ;)
22:42.23 ``Erik a day or so of work to get the ports built and stuff, then antoher week or so to get 'em reviewed and committed, I'd imagine
22:42.30 ``Erik ping is a little more used than ttcp
22:42.32 brlcad i looked into bringing in his original ping source as a utility
22:43.06 brlcad would have too, cept he initially wrote the sockets using privileged socket options
22:43.12 brlcad so you have to run it as root :)
22:43.33 ``Erik heh
22:44.03 brlcad was tempting, though.. I could actually use that in the new modeler as a plugin had it not
22:47.00 IriX64 heh ;)
22:48.16 IriX64 #ifdef #ifndef whats an n more or less :)
22:54.38 IriX64 while((ptr=strchr(string,'\0x0d')));ptr+1=0x00;
22:54.48 IriX64 whats wrong with that?
22:55.28 brlcad heh, this is right up your alley ``Erik: http://www.hermann-uwe.de/files/images/programmer_hierarchy.png
22:57.21 IriX64 brlcad:should rename to required education for any programmer. :)
22:57.58 IriX64 ahrrrgggghhhh *ptr+1
22:58.15 IriX64 *(ptr+1)
23:00.13 brlcad hm .. depends entirely on the intent, no? :)
23:00.22 IriX64 yah. :)
23:00.55 IriX64 intent is to null terminated a bunch of non nullterminated strings.
23:01.14 IriX64 but the do have 0d oa in them.
23:01.21 IriX64 0a too
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23:12.44 b0ef brlcad: it's really great to break up the project like that;)
23:14.26 Twingy Smoking is bad for your lungs.
23:14.49 b0ef , but it sure is good
23:16.20 Twingy it's a waste of time
23:16.33 IriX64 thats why i do it ;)
23:16.52 Twingy are you religious?
23:16.57 b0ef Twingy: so you claim
23:17.04 IriX64 yes the one true religion.
23:17.08 brlcad beer?
23:17.16 IriX64 beleiving.
23:17.33 IriX64 catholicism the rest just ways of beiliving.
23:17.50 brlcad i've seen it, even tasted
23:17.52 IriX64 thats a cult :)
23:19.03 IriX64 twingy is suppsed to do cpr.
23:19.09 IriX64 supposed too.
23:19.19 brlcad i don't think that'd be a good idea :)
23:19.34 IriX64 leave me dead would you ?
23:19.40 IriX64 medi
23:19.44 IriX64 medic too.
23:21.12 IriX64 better a hippie than a yuppie don't you think?
23:22.09 brlcad hey Twingy.. you know of a good means to compute an OBB that's aligned with the view frustum?
23:22.25 brlcad (of implicit prims, not just polys)
23:22.33 Twingy isn't that an oxymoron?
23:22.56 brlcad er, not afaik
23:23.09 Twingy is the OBB AA?
23:23.27 brlcad it'd be an aabb if I consider the view frustum as creating some global coordinate system i suppose
23:24.03 brlcad but even then.. i have that transformation, and not clear how to make a nice tight fitting bb
23:24.29 brlcad end result that I'm trying to get is a rect on pixel image where an object possibly intersects
23:24.31 Twingy you have an arbitrary view and a frustum that goes with it
23:25.02 IriX64 do pixel math :)
23:25.04 brlcad s/intersects/exists or is otherwise going to get rendered for some rays)
23:25.40 Twingy what is the OBB encapsulating?
23:26.36 brlcad i got a torus being looked at 35 25 or something, going to render 512x512.. want to know which ray-pixels are definitely NOT possibly intersecting the torus
23:26.54 brlcad idea was to create an obb aligned with the view to get that box
23:27.22 Twingy a scene graph would be able to tell you that with the same amount of instructions as your proposed algorithm would
23:28.09 Twingy but given how coupled everything is to BSP's...
23:28.32 brlcad okay, but even the scene graph would be testing rays against planes or aabbs or obb's or some other bvh
23:29.00 Twingy they would be, but the number of instructions is like in the tens, just ask alexis
23:29.01 brlcad i don't really want to test rays (yet)
23:29.43 Twingy the cross products alone will eat up that many instructions
23:30.15 brlcad still.. you say walk the scene graph which is all good.. but a scene graph of what? just a bsp?
23:30.37 IriX64 Twingy: not if you encapsulate the algorithm in a repetitive loop with a way out.
23:30.50 Twingy a graph of nodes with pointers to neighbors like alexis has, I'm not sure how detailed I can get without his permission though
23:31.11 Twingy it becomes a breshenham stepping problem
23:31.21 brlcad so he's using aabbs basically
23:31.26 Twingy yes, exactly
23:31.31 brlcad or at least you're suggesting using aabbs
23:31.31 Twingy but not a tree
23:31.49 Twingy yea, if aabb's get used as a tree like I did in adrt then it's already non-optimal
23:31.49 brlcad sure
23:32.16 brlcad basically a variant of grid traversal
23:32.21 Twingy exactly
23:32.29 brlcad ingo actually talked a fair bit about his work on that this past year..
23:32.31 Twingy but not in any research papers
23:32.36 Twingy atleast as of yet afaik
23:32.49 Twingy ah, so he's catching up to alexis's work then :)
23:32.54 brlcad perhaps
23:33.09 brlcad you'll have to take a look at the course video
23:33.36 Twingy ok, but getting back to reality
23:33.42 brlcad still wasn't close to russian dude's first-hit tracer
23:33.46 Twingy implementing a scene graph is not practical right now
23:33.59 Twingy reschetov's is clever, but still not entirely optimal
23:33.59 brlcad but then nobody is still
23:34.35 brlcad not practical, howso?
23:34.45 Twingy I think he's trying to use kd-tree's in ways that no longer make them kd-tree's...
23:35.14 Twingy it's not a textbook tree if you have leaf nodes pointing to other leaf nodes
23:35.44 brlcad it's just an inbred tree ;)
23:35.45 Twingy it's closer to a scene graph than anything
23:36.05 Twingy I think reschetov will be the first to call it a scene graph
23:36.19 Twingy but ingo might too, anybody's guess
23:36.58 Twingy so back to the torus
23:37.15 brlcad getting back to my problem, though.. at least one of my many problems.. say I wanted to draw a box, light up the pixels, around some rendered object
23:37.24 Twingy you're doing 2 matrix multiplies right now I take it?
23:37.51 Twingy what if you steal some rasterization codes
23:37.59 brlcad right now, nothing.. i'm trying to sort out what I need to implement
23:38.02 Twingy reasterize the torus
23:38.05 Twingy *rasterize
23:38.14 brlcad that's the trick though, without rendering the box contents
23:38.23 brlcad otherwise it's just trivial pixel walking
23:38.25 Twingy but rasterization is cheap
23:38.52 Twingy ok, don't rasterize
23:38.54 brlcad not in this particular usage.. i just want to know a basic projection box around the object
23:38.59 Twingy nod
23:39.21 brlcad i can take the bounding sphere and quickly compute a bounding box around that.. but that's rarely going to be tight fitting
23:40.11 Twingy so are you going to do ray/box testing?
23:40.27 brlcad i was hoping to avoid any ray testing, but if necessary sure
23:40.40 dtidrow_work brlcad: what are you trying to do again?
23:40.42 brlcad it seems just conceptually that I should be able to compute that box
23:40.48 brlcad directly
23:41.28 brlcad dtidrow_work: determine a bounding square on a rendered image around some given object in 3-space
23:41.33 Twingy that box is already a function in each primitive
23:41.51 brlcad so if I rendered a tank, for example, this would be the tightest fitting square outline in the image if I were to crop the image
23:42.05 brlcad the box is aligned to global coordinates in each prim
23:42.10 brlcad not the view
23:42.25 brlcad I could do the same projection like for the sphere, but that'll also not be tight fitting
23:42.42 Twingy is this just to speed up rendering images with empty pixels or in general, like in a forest
23:43.00 brlcad which is why I was thinking of how to compute an obb directly on some given prim, and provide an orientation that was aligned with the view
23:43.39 brlcad neither and both really.. it's for an idea I have for fast csg evaluation
23:43.46 Twingy that box is a function of the projection matrix AND modelview matrix
23:44.09 Twingy if we're talking opengl lingo
23:44.27 brlcad it's an idea that would effectively make boolweave and the bsp traversal go away in librt potentially
23:44.44 brlcad or at least get computed in a radically different manner
23:45.30 Twingy is the box you're getting aligned with the view? horizontal and vertical lines
23:45.31 brlcad yeah, it is .. so how do I go from those two matrices to that projection?
23:45.42 brlcad yeah, purely horizontal and vertical
23:46.01 Twingy oh, I know
23:46.05 brlcad basically I want to categorize pixels bunches sort of into the postage stamp sections
23:46.21 Twingy the mesa source code has the GLU Project utility
23:46.22 brlcad where know this square of pixels needs to be tested
23:46.44 Twingy take the 8 projected points of the box, min max them
23:46.45 Twingy done
23:46.46 brlcad against some primitive
23:46.58 Twingy you already have a bounding box for the primitive
23:47.13 brlcad that's what i meant though.. that's projecting the aabb onto the view
23:47.16 brlcad it's not tight fitting
23:47.18 Twingy so you project the 8 points (might be an optimization in there to do less) and grab the min max
23:47.40 Twingy oh, the aabb
23:47.47 Twingy well, you could always add a new type of box
23:48.00 Twingy that is the aabb * transformation matrix
23:48.14 Twingy err some function of that
23:48.20 Twingy 6 floats...
23:48.28 brlcad which would be a function that effectively computes an obb :)
23:48.46 brlcad which i don't see how to directly evaluate on a given implicit :)
23:48.50 Twingy yea, but I just listed the puzzle pieces
23:48.57 Twingy well the code will simplify
23:49.35 Twingy I know that with the projection code from mesa, transformation matrix for the primitive, and perhaps an extra 6 floats in each primitive I could hash something out then optimize it
23:49.42 Twingy atleast that is what my approach would be
23:49.53 brlcad hm
23:50.02 brlcad i'll take a look there then
23:50.24 Twingy I ripped the mesa projection code and put it in nurbana for selecting control points on a mesh
23:50.42 Twingy the code documents are in french I think
23:50.50 Twingy but it's easy to follow
23:51.03 brlcad heh
23:52.52 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/ProjectUtility.cpp
23:53.50 Twingy you want UnProject
23:54.17 Twingy all the way at the bottom
23:55.48 Twingy the trick will be finding the optimizations after you merge it into the other code to project the 8 pts
23:56.13 Twingy my gut feeling is you can simplify alot of that cruft
23:56.18 brlcad hm
23:56.39 Twingy output of UnProject is x,y screen coordinate
23:56.44 brlcad i think i follow, but still don't have a good way to determine those 8 points
23:56.57 brlcad in model space
23:57.04 Twingy before the primitive gets a transformation applied to it
23:57.15 Twingy it's AABB is tight fitting no?
23:57.25 brlcad yeah, should be
23:57.27 brlcad ahhh
23:57.35 brlcad so it's rotating
23:57.37 Twingy k, stargate time
23:58.11 brlcad calculating the box using the aabb, then unprojecting those points back up through the modelview and projection matrix
23:58.14 brlcad coolness
23:58.20 brlcad thanks, that might just work! :)
23:58.44 brlcad mm.. stargate.. yay for dvr.. but time to go home :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060812

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060812

00:13.27 ``Erik erm, sg ain't till 9, no?
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01:14.52 brlcad yep
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02:13.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: display the current mode in mged graphics window
02:14.49 IriX64 www.brlcad.org. check it out.
02:15.11 IriX64 ftp.brlcad.org.
02:15.21 IriX64 yours?
02:28.34 IriX64 raytrace control panel->advanced settings->light model->photon mapping done, yea.
02:29.01 IriX64 i'll see your ray and raise you a photon :)
02:29.22 brlcad yes, they're still in the incoming bin
02:29.49 IriX64 hrmmph no interest in my work eh? :)
02:30.36 brlcad busy trying to implement new features and get this iteration's release out, 7.8.4
02:30.45 IriX64 cool.
02:31.16 IriX64 photon mapping = instead of shooting a line you shoot pixel by pixel.
02:31.54 brlcad not exactly
02:32.03 IriX64 err i erred:)
02:32.09 IriX64 ?
02:32.42 IriX64 oh i see never mind.
02:32.46 IriX64 :)
02:32.47 brlcad instead of just simulating a light ray bouncing around a scene, you add the simulation of photons being emitted from the light source(s) and they're deposited throughout the scene
02:33.21 brlcad the rays being shot then pick up the photons, which gives a relatively cheap form of global illumination
02:33.58 IriX64 but if you illuminate the pixels with shades of light its more accurate my way.
02:35.21 IriX64 in other words hit the same pixel three different times with varying intensities of light.
02:35.44 IriX64 simulating global illumination instead of scen illumination.
02:35.54 IriX64 scene too :)
02:36.22 IriX64 ermf pixels is the wrong reference.
02:36.35 IriX64 dot is more accurate or point.
02:37.39 IriX64 must see a man about a recurring plumbing problem be right back ;)
02:40.12 IriX64 homo sapiens = poor desig, leaks everywhere :)
02:40.18 IriX64 design too.
03:32.48 IriX64 cleverly programmed into each full compile, is a loooooooong coffee break, ill be back in 60.
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03:50.47 IriX64 jack-g? jack? jack shit? yeah I know him ;)
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04:47.46 IriX64 errrmmmfff "I am Joes spine" :)
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20:12.54 IriX64 cheers.
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21:42.15 IriX64 if (!BU_CK_MAPPED_FULE(dsp_ip->dsp_mp)) return 0; <=======not familiar with BU* will this work?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060813

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060813

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01:37.05 IriX64 guess not :(
01:43.55 IriX64 some people just like to watch ;)
03:15.43 brlcad what do you mean "will this work?"
03:16.25 brlcad it does what it's designed to do .. checks to make sure the dsp_mp pointer is a mapped file, though you spell FULE wrong
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19:27.37 IriX64 what i meant was does it return a null on success or error?
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22:45.56 myric Hello all
22:46.58 myric Hey I downloaded the latest source for brlcad but it would not build.
22:47.56 myric http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.gz
22:48.42 myric The file adrt/isst/observer/observer.c references a file splash.h that doesn't exist
22:49.09 myric and then the functions that are supposed to be there for showing a splash screen had to be commented out
22:56.24 dtidrow which OS are you building on?
23:06.08 myric linux
23:06.18 myric sorry didn't see your response
23:06.23 myric doesn't matter
23:06.59 myric #include "splash.h" when there's no "splash.h" breaks a build on any platform
23:18.13 dtidrow odd - it compiles fine for me on FC4
23:19.55 myric hmm
23:20.10 myric 7.8.0 or 7.8.2?
23:20.16 dtidrow 7.8.2
23:20.42 myric can you find a file in your source called splash.h
23:20.44 myric ?
23:20.56 myric maybe I gat a bad tar
23:20.57 dtidrow hang on - that was at my work machine
23:21.02 myric oh sorry
23:21.12 dtidrow np - just have to log into it
23:22.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: refix the command-line history bug that was inadvertently undone by the mac delete key patch
23:22.19 myric I'm running ubunto 6.06 on this pc btw
23:22.30 dtidrow nope, no splash.h there
23:22.33 myric hmm
23:23.12 myric mine either
23:23.24 myric and there's a reference to it in adrt/isst/observer/observer.c
23:23.28 dtidrow which file is the #include in?
23:23.40 myric i had to comment it out to get it to build
23:25.14 myric not really a problem since I figured it out. It'll just confuse people trying it for the first time if it happens to them.
23:26.14 dtidrow but where is it coming from?
23:26.40 dtidrow I wonder if it's a tk thing....
23:29.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (ged.c history.c): make the command history pattern arg const
23:31.33 myric it was just a build error in a c file
23:31.49 myric We must have different files
23:31.57 myric somehow
23:32.19 myric I don't think tk uses .h files or .c files
23:35.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
23:35.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: one step closer towards v5 database support, make function hooks match
23:35.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: db_functree interface (last param wasn't genptr_t). fix a memory leak related
23:35.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: to get_name(). keep track of whether objects are correctly cloned via get_name
23:35.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: lookups.
23:35.24 myric ohhh...
23:36.05 myric I did have to do some playing with configure options to get adrt to build at all
23:36.15 myric maybe you didn't build adrt?
23:37.41 brlcad myric: adrt auto-enables if it finds python and sdl
23:38.11 brlcad though it really shouldn't because it's as cross-platform-compiling capable as the rest of the package
23:38.42 myric it didn't on mine because it didn't find python
23:39.26 brlcad since you have sdl and python, you could conceivably get it to successfully build by fixing the Makefile.am's but it's not really critical
23:39.27 myric so I had to give a --with-python=/usr/include/python2.4/ switch
23:39.32 brlcad ahh
23:39.41 brlcad I'd suggest leaving that off ;)
23:39.44 myric I did that too
23:40.18 myric I also manually edited the Makefile.am, but I thought that was just me
23:40.30 myric since I configured it several times
23:40.33 brlcad should --disable-adrt ;)
23:40.41 myric what exactly is adrt
23:40.42 myric ?
23:40.48 myric I could look it up..
23:40.48 brlcad sdl and python aren't required for anything else
23:41.00 brlcad adrt is the "advanced distributed ray-tracer"
23:41.07 myric ah
23:41.17 myric I thought maybe it had something to do with the new archer
23:41.22 brlcad it's a very high-performance triangle ray-trace library, path tracer, and ray-tracer
23:42.14 brlcad specific to triangle-only models, but very nicely high-performing .. takes some configuration work to make use of it, some not well documented
23:42.24 brlcad nothing to do with archer
23:42.27 myric ok
23:42.38 myric I did get it to build
23:42.53 myric It just didn't build out of the box so to speak
23:42.59 brlcad archer also hasn't been set up for non-windows platforms yet either fwiw
23:43.04 myric and I wanted to let somebody know
23:43.09 brlcad it's not supposed to build out of the box yet ;)
23:43.17 myric ok then
23:43.43 myric I'd like to work on getting archer to work on linux.
23:43.49 brlcad it's on the to-do list, just hasn't been a priority
23:43.55 brlcad that'd be very cool
23:44.02 myric I've got a few hours to poke around tonight
23:44.34 brlcad it's run on linux, so it really should just be some pathing/setup issues
23:44.53 myric I know it runs on linux because I just build it
23:45.00 brlcad mac os x is the only platform that should actually require a little code (to load blt correctly from a dylib)
23:45.25 myric maybe I'm misunderstanding what archer is
23:46.05 brlcad most of archer doesn't require compilation.. getting it to "build" doesn't take too much :) getting it to fully run correctly, however, is another issue
23:46.06 myric Is it supposed to be a new user friendly modeling interface?
23:46.10 brlcad yes
23:46.18 myric ok so maybe not
23:47.00 myric I haven't done much programming in tcl, but I think I could get this to work.
23:47.09 myric What is it supposed to look like?
23:47.21 myric I get a blank window with a set of axes when i open it
23:47.33 myric and four buttons for zooming and rotating
23:47.47 myric oh it get the axes when I make a new db
23:48.35 myric I commented out the "package require blt" bit because blt commands seem to work fine without it
23:48.50 myric it was throwing an error
23:49.03 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/archer.jpg
23:49.35 myric great, so I have something to work toward
23:49.46 myric I'm not getting the toolbar
23:50.12 brlcad lack of blt is probably why you have no toolbar
23:50.18 myric or the prompt, just the viewing window
23:50.23 myric hmm
23:50.33 brlcad some of the interface items are disabled by default
23:50.41 brlcad see the "advanced" mode on the menu
23:50.50 myric I tried running a few blt::blahblah commands in bwish and they seem to work fine
23:51.23 brlcad may have linked blt static
23:51.34 myric ah hah
23:51.38 myric I have a toolbar
23:52.19 brlcad cool
23:52.37 brlcad you may be mostly fully functional already then
23:54.44 myric yeah It actually seems to work
23:54.48 myric I'll play with it
23:55.52 myric I do remember something like "build static: yes" from the configure script
23:58.04 dtidrow just got back - figured that the adrt stuff didn't build
23:58.13 dtidrow which is why I didn't see any error
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060814

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060814

00:00.50 myric brlcad here was telling me that I don't really need it anyway
00:01.06 myric I was trying to get archer to work in linux and wanted to build everything
00:01.15 dtidrow yeah, I was catching up on the conversation :-)
00:01.31 myric just to make sure whatever changes I made didn't break something else
00:02.04 myric I seem to be able to make primitives in archer, but it's giving me a lot of error messages
00:03.15 brlcad an example error?
00:03.49 myric oh ok sorry
00:04.00 myric db_lookup(arb8.1.version2) failed: arb8.1.version2 does not exist
00:04.24 myric I created a few arb8's and I am just moving them around and such
00:04.53 myric this is one I get whenever I create a new object:
00:04.56 myric Hiding BRL-CAD geometry (arb8.1.version2) is generaly a bad idea.
00:04.56 myric This may cause unexpected problems with other commands.
00:04.56 myric Are you sure you want to do this?? (y/n)
00:05.34 brlcad ahh
00:05.54 myric I'll be a few minutes. Gotta put my daughter to bed.
00:06.08 brlcad that's some of archer's version tracking magic, not bad behavior (though it should quell that message)
00:17.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: can't get an mrec of a v5 database
00:37.56 myric well I seem to be able to make basic shapes. I'll see if I can figure out why it's giving me the error messages.
00:40.43 brlcad that one in particular wasn't an error message
00:40.58 brlcad just a verbose warning for interactive mode
00:41.45 myric the one about hiding geometry?
00:41.46 brlcad archer stashes previous versions of objects as "hidden" geometry, which can as it notes cause unexpected problems with other commands if you tried to mess with them
00:42.39 myric The GUI stops responding until I go to the vt and type y or n...
00:43.15 brlcad ah, hm.. that's not exactly expected ;)
00:54.32 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: prepare for making v5 primitives, restore abort on v5 combinations.
01:00.38 myric so how far along is archer. I don't seem to be able to do boolean operations.
01:00.41 myric ?
01:03.46 myric not a complaint, just wondering if I'm missing something
01:05.49 brlcad hmm, i'd have to defer that to archer's main dev (Bob) .. but I was under the impression that booleans should be fine
01:05.59 brlcad are you referring to the command line or something in the gui?
01:06.30 brlcad if anything, I believe the command line should let you make booleans as it's just an embedded version of mged's command line (for the most part)
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01:06.51 jano must talk to monkeyboy!
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01:07.17 brlcad heh
01:54.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: refactor the index
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13:17.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: now makes n copies of a solid primitive, but does not yet apply a transformation matrix
13:23.16 ``Erik up late, sean?
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14:41.33 brlcad ``Erik: yup
16:26.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/fast4-g.c:
16:26.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: this should allow for longer length object names when performing a conversion
16:26.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: instead of seemingly arbitrarily limiting the names to 16 characters. this
16:26.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: change is made in response to sf feature request 1539998 (FastGen to BRL-CAD
16:26.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: converter truncates names) from ashleybomboy.
16:36.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:36.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: support for longer Fastgen object names in fast4-g.. should allow for longer
16:36.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: length object names when performing a conversion instead of seemingly
16:36.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: arbitrarily limiting the names to 16 characters. this change is made in
16:36.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: response to sf feature request 1539998 (FastGen to BRL-CAD converter truncates
16:36.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: names) from ashleybomboy.
17:24.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/wdb_obj.c): make RT_NAMESIZE obsolete, remove from public interface header. retain the v4 support for 16 char object names using a local define.
17:26.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
17:26.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Alter point value to be f^2/r^2.
17:26.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Set normalization routine to use f^2/r^3 to fix flipped normals.
17:31.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm-X.c libdm/dm-generic.c libfb/if_X.c): change function names to avoid debug build name clashing
17:41.23 ``Erik http://www.yikers.com/video_hillbillies_mess_with_wrong_guy_and_get_gun_pulled_on_them.html
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19:16.19 IriX64 for(;;) :)
19:16.57 IriX64 same as while(1) :)
19:17.43 ValarQ but the former looks better
19:17.53 IriX64 heh yeah.
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19:18.15 ValarQ while(!FALSE) is pretty nice as well
19:18.31 IriX64 while(!TRUE) is too.
19:18.43 ValarQ but none of them beats: replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
19:18.51 IriX64 or while(!1) ;)
19:19.03 brlcad loop:
19:19.03 brlcad ..
19:19.06 brlcad goto loop;
19:19.14 brlcad *ahem*
19:19.25 ValarQ why don't you just model a continuation in a monad...
19:19.29 IriX64 duplicate :: char ->b ->(c)
19:19.57 IriX64 heh loopy games ;)
19:20.01 ValarQ oh, a fellow haskeller? :)
19:20.15 IriX64 dashenkup.
19:20.46 IriX64 dvorak had it right. sigh.
19:21.10 IriX64 querty won tho.
19:21.58 IriX64 my constructor was destructed :)
19:22.25 IriX64 gotta rethink this....
19:23.08 IriX64 generating the cygwin code as well as the target system is expensive in size, but it does keep me from having to do two seperate compiles to test the code.
19:23.42 IriX64 lets see if the ymp build is right *this time.
19:26.55 IriX64 cygwin side works now to call peter cray :)
19:33.17 brlcad IriX64: you should try to set up simh vax
19:33.42 brlcad get bsd installed in the vm and then compile brl-cad in there ;)
19:33.50 IriX64 vax i speak, but simh is unknown to me.
19:33.56 IriX64 i c ;)
19:34.09 brlcad http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
19:34.19 IriX64 thank you.
19:34.46 IriX64 you're thinking im pulling your chain?
19:34.52 brlcad http://www.openbsd.org/vax-simh.html
19:35.46 IriX64 its doable execute a cray nop first, system traps the illegal instruction trap and goes for the cygwin entry point.
19:36.35 IriX64 system scans the code looking for the cygwin id if its not found then repoorts the trap.
19:36.45 IriX64 reports too.
19:37.18 IriX64 :)
19:37.45 IriX64 15 years later its all coming together.
19:38.23 IriX64 want me to send you what i started with, cygw~1.exe? (16 megs)
19:39.21 IriX64 swear
19:40.55 IriX64 that hello world i maile ``Erik was my cygwin at work.
19:41.01 IriX64 mailed too.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060815

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060815

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09:48.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (enumerate.sh Makefile.am lines.sh):
09:48.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: renamed lines.sh to enumerate.sh and added more than just line counting to the
09:48.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: report summary. the output now also includes details on the number of
09:48.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: files/directories as well as the number of libraries and applications that are
09:48.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: compiled/installed.
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22:32.39 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060816

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060816

02:17.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (bu_fgets.c Makefile.am): Added bu_fgets(). A replacement for fgets() that also recognizes CR as an EOL marker
02:22.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Now uses bu_fgets() so that DXF files that use CR as an EOL marker will be read correctly
02:25.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: Added bu_fgets()
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03:33.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: declare the newly added rt_matrix_transform() routine for applying a matrix transformation to a given object
03:35.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (transform.c Makefile.am): initial implementation of rt_matrix_transform() routine for applying a matrix transformation to a given object. basically a convenient wrapper to not needlessly expose the rt_functab table to userland code.
03:36.44 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: use the rt_matrix_transform() call from librt instead of hooking into the rt_functab directly.
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08:28.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john improved end-of-line file input processing in dxf-g
08:32.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
08:32.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: john fixed the bug where the dxf-g converter was improperly handling files
08:32.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: encoded with a different line ending style (e.g. CR+NL or CR only). this was
08:32.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: done by implementing bu_fgets() that takes CR's into account. still need to
08:32.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: test more and probably update all of the callers of fgets() but it's there now.
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17:55.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add superell and metaball to "make" help string
17:56.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: added metaball to the "make" command
18:03.13 brlcad ``Erik: superell was intentionally left off of the make help string as it's still considered experimental/incomplete
18:44.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: output the date and version of BRL-CAD
18:46.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: add = in the version string just to minimize the chance it's something that will not evaluate.
18:48.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/vers.sh: use a somewhat more safe means to extract the version number from configure.ac
18:53.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (enumerate.sh vers.sh): should escape the quotes since they're inside quotes
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20:45.35 IriX64 64 bit cygwin_nt , finally :)
20:46.37 IriX64 not kidding, do a /ver on me :)
20:48.11 IriX64 a cigarrete slaps me up side the head and says "good work, smoke em if you have em" :)
21:07.47 brlcad what does that do?
21:08.32 IriX64 allows linux builds for instance that do not have cygwin functioality in them, ie they don't need cygwin1.dll et al.
21:09.32 brlcad you mean windows builds in the cygwin env that don't need that dll?
21:09.32 IriX64 the other way was workable but had the overhead of all that cygwin code.
21:09.38 IriX64 yes
21:09.43 IriX64 no
21:09.53 IriX64 wont run on windows.
21:10.03 IriX64 with or without the dll's.
21:10.27 IriX64 trying to become a unix system here :)
21:10.56 brlcad you wont or the binaries wont?
21:11.44 IriX64 run for instance irssi in the windows environment even with path set to dll's it simply reorts microsoft windows revision blah blah and exits. now
21:13.12 brlcad so then whats it linking against if not cygwin to resolve those symbols?
21:13.38 IriX64 sub reports/reorts.
21:14.29 IriX64 there are no cygwin symbols, its a unix envronment now use the unix libraries for instance termlib.
21:15.11 IriX64 heh noted :)
21:15.21 brlcad termlib only gives you so much.. where's it getting things like select() from?
21:15.43 brlcad if not from cygwin.. it should be some windows system library :)
21:15.52 brlcad not that that's a bad thing
21:15.56 IriX64 the system libraries i have a whack of them put together from gnu code mostly.
21:16.04 brlcad has nothing to do with the windows gui fwiw too
21:16.15 IriX64 true
21:16.35 IriX64 i vist www.gnu.org frequently :)
21:17.18 IriX64 redhat too :)
21:18.06 IriX64 if i leave out --without-cygwin, i can build for windows.
21:19.04 IriX64 was working on gcc 4.1.1 last night, my knuckles are still bleeding ;)
21:20.58 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~
21:20.58 IriX64 $ gcc --version
21:20.58 IriX64 gcc (GCC) 4.1.1
21:20.58 IriX64 Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
21:20.58 IriX64 This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
21:21.00 IriX64 warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
21:21.02 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~
21:22.53 brlcad again with the pasting, really not necessary ..
21:23.13 IriX64 $wanted to make point.
21:23.25 brlcad as do I
21:23.34 IriX64 . taken
21:24.12 brlcad no reason to doubt that you didn't "really" have gcc 4.1.1 .. unless you think everyone should doubt everything you say..
21:24.29 brlcad or are you just talking out your ... ? ;)
21:25.03 IriX64 oooooo you are promoted to the head of pyshiatry aberdeen maryland. ;)
21:25.25 IriX64 err pyschiatry too.
21:26.14 IriX64 brlcad: how do I use bu_free() ? ;)
21:26.32 IriX64 ahhh i c bu_free(brlcad) ;)
21:27.35 brlcad you're missing a parameter
21:27.49 brlcad bu_free(brlcad, "deallocate brlcad");
21:28.17 IriX64 thats covered in my free but you have to return(brlcad) :)
21:28.25 brlcad the string is optionally printed if the right debug flags are enabled at run-time so you can look for specific allocations/deallocations
21:29.26 IriX64 err alloc.
21:29.46 IriX64 sobriety break... bbiab
21:30.41 brlcad the existance of the statement doesn't meant that it's going to be called, depends on the context, logic, and location
22:09.11 ``Erik bring to me teh b00z0rz
22:23.11 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
23:11.48 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060817

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060817

00:52.20 IriX64 ermf sobriety break was a failure ;)
00:53.25 IriX64 virtual beer just doesn't cut it :)
01:13.13 ``Erik ...
01:13.29 ``Erik you're "special", dude :)
01:19.05 IriX64 heheh high praise coming from the "most special one" :)
01:26.56 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309785.sympatico.ca)
01:27.33 IriX64_ ``Erik you're sp "special" i decided to visit you twice :)
01:27.49 IriX64_ s/so/sp
01:33.36 IriX64 had to restore, might not be doable Brlcad i fooled my self, the whole damn environment relies on thos dll's
01:34.04 IriX64 however cross compiling can be done but that cygwin code is in there to doubles the binary.
01:35.54 IriX64 for instance a linux install of brlcad is 1.14gb :(
02:06.10 IriX64 check me: if i set --host --build is automatically set to i686-pc-cygwin, the configure checks all use the cygwin systems answers, however my compiler examines config.log upon execution and produces code based on the --host switch, (don't laff it really works)
02:08.40 IriX64 had to leave the name as gcc because not all scripts honor CC.
02:09.31 IriX64 suppose i could have two copies around.
02:09.46 IriX64 messy solution though... i forget a lot :)
02:40.24 *** join/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
02:41.05 *** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
02:51.05 IriX64 1+1=3 or more :)
02:52.56 IriX64 you people should set up an ftp server.
02:53.09 IriX64 that allows uploads.
02:53.32 IriX64 some of my by-products are interesting, would love to share them with you.
06:09.25 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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18:06.19 *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309785.sympatico.ca)
18:06.29 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309785.sympatico.ca)
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20:32.52 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: added a new function: pkg_permserver_ip to support connecting to the loopback interface. involved some refactoring. not completely tested yet.
20:33.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: added a new function: pkg_permserver_ip to support connecting to the loopback interface. involved some refactoring. not completely tested yet.
20:58.54 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-182.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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22:55.18 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060818

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060818

01:26.35 *** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@pool-70-17-115-114.res.east.verizon.net)
04:29.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/stl-g.c: now ignores leading white space on the first line of the STL file
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08:32.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john adds improved beginning-of-line input processing in stl-g
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14:17.24 ``Erik *stretch*
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17:42.30 ValarQ *chirp*
17:42.51 IriX64 a chick ... a dee neat :)
17:43.29 ValarQ just a parrot walking on my keyboard... ;P
17:43.49 IriX64 thought it was your mouse squeaking :)
17:44.34 ValarQ nah, my mouse is broken
17:45.02 IriX64 doesn't sqeak anymore ? poor mouse . :)
17:45.05 ValarQ i tested my pneumatic cylinder on it :/
17:45.29 IriX64 ooooo the ball pean effect. :)
17:45.29 ValarQ there was small plastic pieces in the entire room
17:46.06 ValarQ maybe i get myself a trackball...
17:46.45 IriX64 my balls don't leave tracks :P
17:47.19 ValarQ a ball that tracks, not leave tracks :P
17:47.33 IriX64 heh
17:51.18 IriX64 if they do they track each other ;)
17:51.39 IriX64 what did colten edwards do here now?
17:52.55 IriX64 cavlink? why is it necessary :)
17:54.17 IriX64 permission to bring this thing up and load a couple dll's when its built?
17:56.59 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309785.sympatico.ca)
18:00.38 IriX64 13:59 -!- ValarQ [i=vq@81-235-190-136-no48.tbcn.telia.com]
18:00.38 IriX64 13:59 -!- ircname : Unknown
18:00.38 IriX64 13:59 -!- channels : #brlcad
18:00.38 IriX64 13:59 -!- server : irc.freenode.net [http://freenode.net/]
18:00.39 IriX64 13:59 -!- : is identified to services
18:00.50 IriX64 13:59 -!- End of WHOIS
18:01.13 IriX64_ works
18:01.22 IriX64 here too
18:01.34 ValarQ you and your pastings :P
18:01.39 IriX64 heh
18:02.01 IriX64 didn't want to be told put up or shut up, headed it off at the pass :)
18:02.49 ValarQ not many channels visible there
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060819

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060819

00:07.20 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:07.20 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
01:09.21 ``Erik huh? pix?
01:37.57 *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:07.38 IriX64 picture.
02:08.32 IriX64 are you guys actually at aberdeen?
02:08.57 IriX64 if so you must have amazing toys.
02:09.43 ``Erik <-- work sat aberdeen
02:09.47 ``Erik s/ s/s /
02:10.13 IriX64 an amazing place? are there tours?
02:10.38 IriX64 the mill i worked in used to have tours.
02:13.53 IriX64 ValarQ: did you get those last screen shots, and by the way I love your desktop :)
02:15.25 IriX64 through too.
02:20.23 dtidrow heh
02:34.11 IriX64 ermf graphics work is always memory intensive (virtual memory low)
02:34.45 dtidrow how much memory do you have on that box?
02:34.55 IriX64 512 meg.
02:35.09 dtidrow ah
02:35.16 dtidrow 10mem[Physical : 1355MB/2026MB Free | Swap : 3463MB/3467MB Free]
02:35.26 dtidrow 2GB on this one :-)
02:35.40 IriX64 lend some please.
02:35.47 IriX64 :)
02:35.48 dtidrow usually means I don't have to worry much about memory problems :-)
02:36.02 dtidrow memory is fairly cheap these days
02:36.06 IriX64 except parity errors :P
02:36.15 dtidrow brb
02:58.40 dtidrow b
07:30.58 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:07.33 ValarQ IriX64: pretty ugly desktop you got there :P
14:33.33 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:56.43 IriX64 ValarQ: I admit it needs a cleanup :)
15:00.57 ValarQ IriX64: maybe you want my desktop theme? :)
15:02.24 IriX64 ValarQ:would love to have it, will it work on XP-Pro?
15:02.53 ValarQ no idea
15:03.00 IriX64 heh i'll pass then.
15:03.31 ValarQ it works great on my gentoo box :)
15:08.05 IriX64 whats the canonicalized name for that box?
15:09.15 IriX64 come cassie's waiting.
15:10.57 IriX64 version 10.0.0 just for you.
15:11.54 IriX64 last chance or ill build a x86-unix-freebsd one :)
15:12.33 ValarQ canonicalized?
15:13.12 IriX64 archithecture-manufacturer-operationg system.
15:13.28 IriX64 blah cant spell :)
15:13.44 ValarQ x86_64-me-GNU then :)
15:13.56 IriX64 as in the example sparc64-sun-solaris64.
15:14.01 IriX64 ah thankyou.
15:15.29 IriX64 took it. in an hour we'll see.
15:16.15 IriX64 ValarQ: Won't be able to mail it to you though :(
15:16.21 IriX64 :)
15:16.22 ValarQ ?
15:16.30 IriX64 the binaries.
15:16.53 ValarQ thats ok, i got my own
15:17.05 IriX64 heh but mine are prettier.
15:17.49 ValarQ heh
15:18.18 ValarQ you can't compete with my homemade elf-headers! :P
15:19.16 IriX64 shes building it.
15:21.25 IriX64 suppose i could have used x86_64-unix-gnu.
15:25.53 IriX64 for x86_64-me-gnu-gcc.......cassie.exe <==== gotta love it.
15:38.40 IriX64 hahahah heavy fuel ... by dire straits, on the night album.
15:43.58 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305039.sympatico.ca)
15:44.27 IriX64_ btw my boxen's core is an AMD64 model 8100+
15:47.16 IriX64_ must go burn an offering, bbiab.
16:02.34 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305655.sympatico.ca)
16:18.32 IriX64_ sigh...rebuild, i forgot to leave the cygwin code out :(
16:32.39 IriX64_ restarted.
16:33.25 IriX64_ ValarQ: wouldn't it be easeier to build your own binaries ? :)
16:36.55 IriX64_ Dancin in Gods country (Rebbeca Lynn Howard- Forgive album)
16:39.31 IriX64_ summer stars up in the sky, barefeet on the ground ;)
16:40.54 IriX64_ time for a cup of char bbiab.
17:25.45 IriX64_ cuts compile time in 1/2 leaving that cygwin code out.
17:31.54 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308715.sympatico.ca)
17:33.00 IriX64 ValarQ: what do you think of my artistic talents? :)
17:40.06 IriX64 well gnu to you 2 it built.
17:40.47 IriX64 installed directory is 181,703kb zipped.
17:41.55 brlcad you do realize you've been talking solo for over two and a half hours? :)
17:42.13 IriX64 I'm my own best friend.
17:42.17 IriX64 :)
17:42.19 brlcad heh
17:42.31 IriX64 ValarQ at work?
17:42.47 IriX64 hey wait its the weekend.
17:43.43 IriX64 Tell her it's hers if she wants it.
17:44.25 IriX64 now to see if i cab break the home network, back later.
17:44.31 IriX64 can too.
18:49.38 ``Erik some people REALLY shouldn't do drugs.
18:52.29 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308715.sympatico.ca)
18:54.27 IriX64 Ha dcc send to my self works.
18:55.42 IriX64 Can someone come out to play ;)
18:56.38 IriX64 lets build ValarQ a gentoo irssi.
18:58.52 IriX64 whats with irssi and perl support?
19:00.25 IriX64 make dist = irssi-0.8.10.tar.gz :)
19:15.20 IriX64 doh!! bitchslap me, who am I to think she doesn't already have one? :)
19:16.30 IriX64 shouldn't go making ass umptions like that, mea culpa :)
19:18.22 IriX64 the difference bewteen me, and some like yourselfs, who actually work for a living, is I'm always in relax mode.
19:18.48 IriX64 err between, too.
19:20.57 ``Erik heh
19:22.17 ``Erik if you're bored, irix64, there's a whole laundry list of crap todo... in fact, an easy one would be to update src/librt/rt.3 and fix the description of 'a_onehit', since the documentation and code no longer jive...
19:23.33 IriX64 already fixed :)
19:24.09 IriX64 not that i'm board;)
19:26.07 IriX64 is that the good one twingy? ive heard a little.
19:26.19 ``Erik heh, not playing with the forge today, justin? :)
19:27.09 IriX64 ``Erik? sourceforge? :)
19:27.14 Twingy I've got to get my mill working before I can take the couple castings I've already made and clean them up
19:27.27 ``Erik no, irix, justin built a metal forge for casting stuff...
19:27.55 ``Erik I'd be interested in seeing one of your billets cut in half to see how clean the aluminum is :)
19:28.04 IriX64 whoa man after my iown heart i know steel twingy. ASI.
19:28.22 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/crucible_hot.jpg
19:28.50 ``Erik <-- doesn't consume much in the way of aluminum cans, but could provide a few 'tin' cans if that'd be useful
19:29.27 Twingy I'm not doing any bronze yet
19:29.42 ``Erik okie
19:30.05 ``Erik where are you getting the scrap copper?
19:30.27 IriX64 the hole at the right is the heat source?
19:30.48 Twingy correct
19:31.12 Twingy 10G wire
19:31.14 IriX64 why not stereo it one at the left too would speed things up.
19:31.26 Twingy because I don't want to?
19:31.45 IriX64 heh ok you're the registred owner, what you say goes :)
19:31.56 ``Erik heh, why introduce extra equipment cost when the current solution accomplishes the task?
19:31.59 Twingy damn skippy
19:32.08 IriX64 the roo?
19:32.37 ``Erik if I come across a wad of copper or think of a source, I'll pass it on... :)
19:32.43 ``Erik <-- only worked with aluminum
19:32.48 ``Erik for forge work
19:33.26 Twingy k
19:33.38 Twingy you know there's an AiC concert at power plant in october
19:33.52 IriX64 mmmm gold (ducking and runing)
19:34.44 ``Erik that's what I heard
19:34.59 ``Erik 98 was jabbering about it and giving away tickets
19:36.32 Twingy 105 has too much talking, 98 has too much commercials
19:36.48 IriX64 gotta see a man about a recurring leak bbiab.
19:36.52 ``Erik heh, both have too much talking and too much commercials
19:37.04 ``Erik I should get me one of them ipod thingies for my car
19:47.55 IriX64 Twingy you should put a drain on the bottom of that thing bingo a mini vessel.
19:50.48 IriX64 sun microsystems sure tries hard to sell their stuff :)
19:54.31 ``Erik heh, you don't know how hard until you work in a high reliability data center.
19:54.48 ``Erik they send "sales engineers" that all but give you a hummer
19:59.50 IriX64 hah sweet gig if you can get it.
20:00.03 IriX64 gotta reboot see you next year :)
20:02.13 Twingy oof
20:02.21 Twingy those speakers are intsense
20:02.25 Twingy intense
20:02.33 Twingy give me a headache from the bass
20:49.13 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:54.07 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: make sure the display isn't null before proceeding. really shouldn't ever be if we got this far, but if it is, we avoid a crash. add a localvar footer while we're at it
21:01.09 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c):
21:01.09 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: make sure we actually got a display before proceeding with the display manager
21:01.09 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: initialization. this prevents the display manager from crashing out quickly
21:01.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: upon startup when some condition fails (like there not being an X11 server to
21:01.10 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: connect to, then attempting to get the size of that display or a screen, etc)
22:07.40 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304845.sympatico.ca)
22:10.44 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4304845.sympatico.ca)
22:21.03 IriX64 The Captain said "Is that clear"? Sergeant replies i don't know her ;)
22:30.35 brlcad nope, just busy working on code
22:40.44 ValarQ IriX64: i haven't said that
22:41.27 IriX64 meant Crsytal Clear. (Her I know)
22:42.18 IriX64 I am a soldier of fortune, in the army of the man, I have taken the coin of the realm :)
22:43.10 IriX64 brlcad ... man it's Sasturday. :)
22:43.19 IriX64 Saturday too.
22:45.06 brlcad and?
22:45.56 brlcad usually brl-cad, bzflag, or a variety of personal coding ventures
22:46.56 IriX64 phew... whats that smell...oh yeah ... stale. (Ducking and running hard)
22:49.57 IriX64 how big is the database for that stryker picture?
22:50.18 Twingy in brl-cad or adrt?
22:50.24 IriX64 brl-cad
22:50.36 Twingy few hundred megs I think
22:50.54 IriX64 beautiful picture.
22:51.08 IriX64 5 days though?
22:51.17 Twingy yep
22:51.36 IriX64 suppose i should get used to 3 hour long responses then sigh ;)
22:52.01 Twingy something like 8 trillion rays
22:52.18 IriX64 saw that 48 cpu effort huh?
22:53.17 Twingy yep
22:53.24 brlcad could probably render it on newer boxes with the new code in a day or two
22:53.31 IriX64 awesone
22:53.43 Twingy on the pengions, yea
22:53.48 Twingy penguins
22:54.08 Twingy if I bothered to optimize the DoF stuff it'd go much quicker
22:54.18 Twingy without DoF it's only like 2 hours
22:54.29 IriX64 DoF??
22:54.39 Twingy depth of field
22:54.44 IriX64 ty
22:57.41 Twingy generating pretty pictures gets pretty humdrum after a while though
22:58.21 Twingy I find metal working to have the same effect
22:59.42 IriX64 metal reminds me of the steel plant.
23:00.15 IriX64 urff ive never seen a real live plant made of steel :)
23:00.49 Twingy were you dropped on your head as a kid?
23:01.22 IriX64 ``Erik reminds you of wall candy :)
23:02.24 Twingy so that's a yes?
23:03.06 IriX64 heh would any self respecting idiot admit to it?
23:05.32 Twingy I believe you would
23:05.53 Twingy hence my asking
23:05.59 IriX64 that implies i have no self respect.
23:07.43 IriX64 now i'm brain dead and theres no going back, so lets finish the job, who's got a 9 mm? :)
23:07.58 Twingy hold on, I'll forge you one, brb
23:08.02 IriX64 heh
23:09.01 IriX64 just get a piece of 1/2 pipe and stick a .45 shell into it and hit it with a hammer. :)
23:10.02 Twingy so you've done this in the past...
23:10.22 Twingy and failed at that too...
23:10.52 brlcad would explain a lot
23:11.05 IriX64 zip ;)
23:12.06 Twingy you know that's an architecture and not just a spliff right?
23:12.30 IriX64 mary? you here? ;)
23:16.08 Twingy wtf?
23:16.20 Twingy dude, you're starting to freak me out
23:16.35 IriX64 sorry. :)
23:17.01 IriX64 smokity break.
23:43.08 IriX64 CFLAGS='-without-cygwin' ./configure blah blah :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060820

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060820

01:16.40 IriX64 works like this, my compiler generates code for the arch and os its intended to run on *firts, but taked onto it is code for my cygwin effort, now the first instruction in the first part of the code is a NOP, which does nothing untoward if run on the machine its intended for, however on my system the os traps the invalid instruction exception and goes looking for the cygwin entry point. result ... i can run anything i build with compiling
01:17.14 IriX64 without compiling twice.
01:21.35 IriX64 the -without-cygwin (just changed it to -DWITHOUT-CYGWIN) switch produces production code.
01:22.02 IriX64 easier
01:22.53 IriX64 my compiler checks to see if its a directive else it leaves it as a macro
01:23.12 IriX64 i left room for lots of those :)
01:23.16 Twingy http://www.grizzly.com/products/h7795
01:24.19 Twingy I just ordered that
01:24.46 IriX64 you people and your bleeding edge technology ;)
01:24.49 Twingy same drill will cost you $200 from dewalt or nakkita
01:25.14 Twingy well, the current one I have is a 4 year old 9.6V craftsman with batteries that are next to shot
01:25.47 IriX64 mine still has a cord :)
01:26.24 Twingy corded ones are generally ok
01:26.40 Twingy but for example, when I go to install solar panels on my roof in 2 weeks, I'll need cordless
01:26.51 IriX64 *if there's an outlet nearby.
01:26.59 IriX64 see above.
01:27.46 Twingy 1.5Ah at 18V is generally good for putting in about 500 wood screws
01:28.29 Twingy whereas my 9.6V drill will be dead after about 150
01:29.14 Twingy I've also got the air drill and 2 drill presses
01:55.15 IriX64 shouldn't have started a gcc compile while i'm compiling brlcad, system speed now = slug.
01:57.24 IriX64 ah... you think i'm a poser, because i'm running mirc and saying i'm compiling brlcad. I told you this is unix high on windows :)
01:58.16 IriX64 but soft what tender brew whispers my name ... :)
02:03.31 IriX64 all kidding aside cassandra(read cygwin) is a virtual generic unix system, most stuff i compile for runs on it, trick is i have to start from source.
02:03.48 IriX64 oh and it is 64 bit.
02:04.54 IriX64 not kidding the linux bitchx craps here but if i compile for linux from source it runs here, problem is i have no one to test for the intended audience.
02:05.28 Twingy that's your job
02:05.46 IriX64 will *you pay me for it :)
02:06.15 IriX64 as i said on my strange brew they work.
02:06.28 IriX64 will they on a real say linux box.
02:06.40 Twingy like I said, that's your f'ing job
02:07.23 IriX64 finding a linux box you mean? (I'm poor twingy dont have your resources and no im not begging here.)
02:07.46 Twingy heard of multiple partitions?
02:07.58 IriX64 id have to start over.
02:08.08 IriX64 one drive 200 gig partition.
02:08.13 Twingy so run a vm
02:08.20 IriX64 see my windows xp is not stock.
02:08.31 Twingy I doin't care
02:08.37 Twingy either use a vm
02:08.39 Twingy or repartition
02:08.44 Twingy or stop bitching
02:09.05 IriX64 join me in a malt? :)
02:09.10 Twingy no
02:09.24 IriX64 i'll drink it myself then.
02:11.32 IriX64 i still have a licence for vmware, twingy thankyou.
02:13.36 Twingy so use it
02:17.35 IriX64 guess if it runs on linux 5.2 (Redhat) it'll run on modern linux huh?
02:18.22 IriX64 keep your shorts on straight twingy i'm downloading vmware now.
02:19.34 IriX64 last time i tried this i stupidly installed os/2 warp4
02:24.49 IriX64 err RedHat 5.1.5
02:25.03 Twingy 5.2 was biltmore
02:25.17 IriX64 this is i think manhattan.
02:26.01 IriX64 hey Bud get me another beer :)
02:26.02 Twingy no that was 4.2
02:27.38 IriX64 manhattan is 5.1 its in the book.
02:27.57 Twingy the first production machine I admin'd was running 4.0
02:29.06 Twingy most people don't
02:29.23 Twingy correction, most linux zealots don't
02:30.52 IriX64 you calling me names? ;)
02:34.53 IriX64 ever hear of bigstorageonline.com?
02:35.01 IriX64 or similar?
03:06.26 *** join/#brlcad CIA-11 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx)
04:40.23 Twingy http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/blue-screen-of-death.gif
04:42.41 IriX64 did you "forge" that :)
04:56.37 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
05:08.26 *** join/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
05:08.29 *** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
06:00.02 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:31.30 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:59.54 *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.251.30)
10:00.04 lg_ hi
11:26.12 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-38.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:31.55 ``Erik heh
12:32.19 lg_ hi
12:32.29 lg_ alive ;-)
12:52.51 ValarQ IriX64: i still don't understand why you cut every shot
12:53.23 lg_ ?
13:03.07 *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.251.30)
13:52.12 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't use the HAVE_XOPENDISPLAY define, configure doesn't provide it atm anyways. instead merge in the logic pertaining to checking for X and/or GLX into their respective sections.
13:54.07 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/tcl.c:
13:54.07 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: copy the name/port of the x11 server into a temporary buffer. this avoids some
13:54.07 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: odd stack corruption that is probably related to a bug somewhere else. this is
13:54.07 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: of course just masking tape over one of the symptoms more than likely.
13:56.55 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: if mged was started in interactive mode and fails to create a display manager, revert to classic mode.
14:10.59 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: break message into two lines on abort.
14:17.21 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-38.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:07.03 *** join/#brlcad ValarQ (i=vq@81-235-190-136-no48.tbcn.telia.com)
23:32.32 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060821

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060821

00:30.34 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308317.sympatico.ca)
00:33.37 IriX64 if you could have brlcad on any platform you don't already support what would it be?
00:35.11 IriX64 canonicalized please.
00:37.38 IriX64 c2-cray-unicos all right? ;)
00:44.29 IriX64 recompiled gcc last evening needs a real workout :)
00:46.12 IriX64 Twingy... got vmware installed but every time i ask for a licence their server sends it but it never arrives, tried three different e-mail addresses, just goes to digital heaven or something.
00:54.40 IriX64 ValarQ: because my handy little screen capture program behaves that way :)
01:00.51 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:01.36 pra5ad "Turn this b**ch motherf***er LEFT!!"
01:01.47 pra5ad SoaP was hilarious
01:07.22 *** join/#brlcad BrownBear (n=nathanie@74.137.58.249)
01:39.45 brlcad IriX64: actually, I've been wanting to put together a BeOS/ZetaOS build for quite some time
01:40.24 brlcad I have discs for them sitting right over (*reaches*) there, but have yet to find a suitable machine to install it onto
01:46.58 BrownBear hello, anybody willing to give a hand with an install problem?
01:58.51 IriX64 brlcad: those are both os's i need arch and os.
01:59.04 IriX64 :)
01:59.46 IriX64 BrownBear: perhaps if you stated your problem...
02:01.09 BrownBear thanks IriX64, just making sure people are awake before I start rambling.
02:01.29 BrownBear I'm going through a make right now that almost looks promising, I'll get back to you quickly if it doesn't go well this time
02:02.02 IriX64 what arch/os?
02:03.21 IriX64 Zeta? how bout alpha/omega systems. :)
02:03.50 IriX64 The ZetaOs are they still developing it?
02:07.20 brlcad zetaos is pretty new
02:07.32 BrownBear Ok, it failed again. Whenever I try to make after running ./configure, it gives out errors related to tk
02:07.43 brlcad BrownBear: someone is always listening and will eventually respond if you hang in the channel long enough
02:07.53 brlcad BrownBear: are you using a source dist or CVS?
02:07.58 BrownBear source
02:08.03 brlcad what ver?
02:08.14 BrownBear 7.8.2
02:08.32 brlcad the errors related to Tk are probably X11 symbols/declarations missing
02:08.45 brlcad do you have X11 headers/libs installed?
02:09.13 brlcad if this is a debian/ubuntu system, there's a separate apt for them
02:09.17 BrownBear that's a good question, one that I'm sure is "no"
02:09.33 brlcad what's the OS?
02:09.49 BrownBear debian
02:09.52 brlcad )
02:10.18 brlcad yeah, that's almost certainly the problem then
02:10.56 BrownBear cool. should i go for the libx11-6 stuff or the xlibs-data?
02:11.12 IriX64 whats the error say the first one (pardon brlcad)
02:11.15 brlcad i forget the name of the package to install, think it depends whether you're xorg or xfree and some other detail..
02:11.59 BrownBear the first error i get is:
02:12.00 BrownBear tk.h:98:23: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
02:12.00 BrownBear In file included from tkPort.h:20,
02:12.00 BrownBear <PROTECTED>
02:12.00 BrownBear tk.h:574: error: syntax error before 'Window'
02:12.09 BrownBear then it kinda goes on from there for about 600 more lines
02:12.12 brlcad yeah, missing X11 header
02:12.24 brlcad then it just dumps about every X11 symbol under the sun
02:12.37 brlcad that's a -dev package iirc
02:13.48 IriX64 shouldnt even configure.
02:13.49 BrownBear cool, i appreciate it fellas. i'll try installing those and see where it goes
02:14.22 IriX64 try --without-x
02:14.58 BrownBear i can appreciate the "wait for a response". I used to run a jeep channel on undernet, could go hours and hours without a sord being said, then it was 25 voices all at once
02:16.15 brlcad don't use --without-x
02:16.33 brlcad that would probably work, but it disables some aspects that you probably want
02:16.42 brlcad BrownBear: I think it's xlibs-dev
02:17.46 BrownBear thanks brlcad, i apt'd libx11-dev cause it popped up in my search, if it doesn't work, i'll give xlibs a try
02:21.36 brlcad hopefully not mixing xfree stuff with xorg stuff ;)
02:22.00 brlcad should still work header-wise, but it can cause problems if you link with the wrong library
02:22.06 brlcad guess you'll find out ;)
02:23.10 BrownBear i got a rude awakening when i did a dist-upgrade and found that i lost all x abilities
02:23.26 BrownBear had to rebuild it all, believe it's xorg now
02:24.55 BrownBear i'm watching make build tk stuff right now, maybe i got lucky?
02:25.07 BrownBear that's a big negative
02:25.14 BrownBear but i got much further this time
02:27.04 brlcad probably got to a link phase and it errored?
02:27.14 brlcad <PROTECTED>
02:27.35 brlcad those are the only two system assumptions that come to mind
02:27.44 BrownBear ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XSetInputFocus'
02:27.44 BrownBear ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XFreePixmap'
02:27.44 BrownBear ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XCreateGlyphCursor'
02:27.53 brlcad ahh yeah, link phase
02:28.06 brlcad you did run ./configure again, yes?
02:28.11 BrownBear yup
02:28.16 BrownBear and make clean before
02:28.34 brlcad didn't need that, but configure yes ;)
02:29.13 brlcad that implies some other pacakge still missing, X11 libraries (Xlib)
02:29.29 brlcad they're separate from the -dev headers
02:29.38 BrownBear i'm confused, which package is right for an xorg system, libx11-dev or xlibs-dev?
02:30.52 brlcad asking the wrong dev if you want to know for sure -- what's their respective description?
02:31.24 BrownBear xlibs-dev - X Window System client library development files dummy package
02:31.24 BrownBear libx11-dev - X11 client-side library (development headers)
02:32.26 brlcad "sounds" like the latter, but then I'm no debian expert
02:32.32 brlcad what does it say for xorg-x11-devel
02:32.43 brlcad are you not running X11 already?
02:34.22 brlcad locate libX11 | grep X11R6/lib
02:36.16 BrownBear yes, I have X11 running
02:36.31 BrownBear had to dig to make sure
02:37.05 *** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@pool-70-17-115-114.res.east.verizon.net)
02:41.24 BrownBear weird, i asked it to install xlibs-dev, had pm-dev as a depend, which had xfree86-common as a dependancy
02:41.53 brlcad sounds like that might not be the one then
02:41.58 brlcad if you really are running xorg
02:42.33 BrownBear i hope not, cause it's asking to download 904MB
02:42.44 brlcad really don't want to mix the two up .. maybe asking around in #debian before proceeding blind :)
02:43.16 brlcad for what it's worth, the linux binaries as posted for 7.8.2 should actually run fine on debian
02:44.20 BrownBear i tried those, and had a problem with mged not finding libtermio.so.19
02:44.31 BrownBear thought this would fix it, but has led to one problem after another
02:48.43 BrownBear i've read that linking to that file should fix the problem but have had little luck
02:51.13 brlcad if that's the only library, you might get away with just compiling libtermio
02:51.31 brlcad cd src/libtermio && make
02:52.44 brlcad if that works cleanly, run 'make install' after you have installed the binary brl-cad that complains and it should theoretically be good to go
02:53.01 brlcad do you still have the binary installed?
02:54.19 BrownBear i have it untarred, but i was under the impression that all one needed to do was copy the usr/brlcad directory over to /usr/bin then export PATH........
02:54.34 brlcad not exactly
02:54.52 brlcad you copy the usr/brlcad dir to /usr/. (so you end up with /usr/brlcad)
02:55.07 brlcad then add /usr/brlcad/bin to your PATH
02:55.40 brlcad adding it to your path is actually optional - you can directly run apps by specifying the full path, e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
02:55.56 BrownBear roger
02:56.06 brlcad if you have it untarred, what does this report: nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged
02:56.09 BrownBear and when i do that, out comes "can not open shared library...." blah blah
02:56.27 brlcad it will not run until it is installed correctly into /usr/brlcad
02:56.55 brlcad (i.e. you cannot run it from usr/brlcad (note the lack of the root /)
02:57.21 BrownBear the nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged command spits out lots and lots and lots of stuff
02:57.37 brlcad can you paste it to pastebin?
02:57.52 brlcad ~pastebin
02:57.59 ibot hmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net
03:03.38 brlcad no luck?
03:03.57 BrownBear http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141756
03:04.02 BrownBear responding kinda slow
03:04.35 brlcad gah, i meand ldd, not nm :)
03:05.49 BrownBear i thought 2000 lines was a little too much, but who knows.... :)
03:06.43 BrownBear http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141767
03:07.43 brlcad that looks mostly good .. try installing it .. rm -rf /usr/brlcad && mv usr/brlcad /usr/brlcad
03:08.13 brlcad then run ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
03:09.10 BrownBear shoudl it be in /usr/brlcad or /usr/bin/brlcad, or does it matter?
03:09.54 brlcad it does matter
03:09.58 brlcad /usr/brlcad
03:10.19 brlcad just like how you have /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local ... this is /usr/brlcad
03:10.31 brlcad and each of those has a bin inside
03:10.33 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): s/RT_RESOURCE_CHECK/RT_CK_RESOURCE/g .. we really don't need two macros that do the exact same check. consolidate to just one sans a deprecation warning, using the prevalent CK convention instead.
03:15.02 BrownBear looks just about the same, http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141774
03:15.41 BrownBear actually, no it doesn't
03:15.42 brlcad not at all the same
03:15.44 BrownBear looks much better
03:15.47 brlcad that's fully resolved
03:15.49 brlcad it should run
03:16.14 brlcad /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
03:16.21 brlcad OR
03:16.27 brlcad export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
03:16.28 brlcad mged
03:16.55 BrownBear ah, so close
03:16.57 BrownBear export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
03:17.08 BrownBear well, that's not at all what I meant to post
03:17.16 BrownBear nathaniel@debian:/usr/brlcad$ error getting working directory name: no such file or directory
03:17.17 BrownBear MGED Aborted.
03:17.46 BrownBear there it is
03:17.51 BrownBear i was still in the /usr/bin directory
03:18.05 BrownBear wow cool, it is actually running
03:18.11 BrownBear thank you so very much brlcad
03:18.52 brlcad no problem, glad to hear it's working
03:19.04 BrownBear i've been waiting to try this for months
03:19.27 brlcad you've found the tutorials, quick reference sheets, and other materials on brlcad.org already I hope?
03:19.31 BrownBear are you a maintainer of the brlcad software/sourceforge sites?
03:19.35 BrownBear yes i have
03:19.37 BrownBear thank you
03:19.45 brlcad if your interested in getting involved in the project, we're always looking for help ;)
03:19.52 brlcad yeah, I'm the lead dev
03:20.14 BrownBear i don't know anything about programming, but i think i have some good notes on why this wouldn't work for me <all my own ignorance, as usual>
03:20.34 BrownBear i could write them up and submit them to you or whomever it would be appropriate
03:20.49 brlcad that would be great
03:20.55 BrownBear maybe it could help other people, since i've seen this linking issue with the binaries talked about before on the help site
03:21.24 brlcad even negative criticism if it can be worded in some useful/directional/productive manner is highly appreciated
03:22.13 BrownBear was this the software once used at FMC for the Bradley?
03:22.24 brlcad the more involved helping design and steer its development, the better imho
03:22.51 brlcad FMC?
03:23.04 brlcad something? materiel command
03:23.19 brlcad it was heavily used on the bradley
03:24.10 brlcad it's still the definitive cad system in production use for vulnerability and lethality analysis, used by the tri-service community as part of a JTCG directive
03:24.12 BrownBear FMC was Farm Machinery Corporation, they made the M2 and M3 Bradleys for years before being bought by United Defense LLP, which was recently bought by BAE Systems
03:25.05 brlcad ahh, united defense
03:25.53 BrownBear My dad has been working ont he M3 program since I was a little one
03:26.09 brlcad yes, it was .. though there are other models of the bradley out there for different purposes .. manufacturing and analyses being the predominant two that come to mind -- brl-cad models are generally heavily focused on the analytic side
03:26.09 BrownBear guess it's been about 24/25 years now
03:26.30 brlcad brl-cad's been under development for about that long ;-)
03:49.05 *** join/#brlcad xipponk (n=knoppix@130.184.211.63)
03:49.23 xipponk does brlcad not have a drawing/cad interface?
03:49.51 brlcad xipponk: minimal 2D support via a sketch primitive
03:50.16 xipponk what's it called?
03:50.17 brlcad you can generate unannotated hidden-line images very easily
03:50.36 brlcad example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
03:50.41 brlcad what's what called?
03:51.12 brlcad brl-cad supports a variety of primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
03:51.44 brlcad one of them is a sketch, a 2D outline of a shape -- the mged solid modeler has a relatively simple interface for creating and modifying sketch objects
03:51.55 brlcad those sketch objects can then be extruded to create solid geometry
03:52.04 xipponk cool.
03:52.18 xipponk not mucho documentation i'm afraid.
03:52.20 brlcad in general, though, that's not the modeling approach used as it is 2D-centric
03:52.47 BrownBear solidworks can spoil ya
03:52.50 brlcad there's fairly extensive documentation, depends where you're looking and what you're looking for
03:53.09 xipponk hehehe
03:53.15 xipponk i was looking at the tutorial
03:53.23 brlcad BrownBear: that much is true, but then brl-cad's price tag is certainly a little bit better ;)
03:53.54 BrownBear true, true
03:54.03 brlcad xipponk: i *think* the principles guide might cover sketching
03:54.33 brlcad it really is a minimal inteface though -- doesn't compare in the least to even something like qcad
03:55.20 BrownBear i found qcad to be slow, and buggy
03:55.38 brlcad that primitive mostly exists to support models that are imported from 2D based packages (e.g. autocad, or the 2D variety in packages like unigraphics)
03:55.57 brlcad so that they can be manipulated, visualized, etc
03:56.30 brlcad creating one from scratch using brl-cad existing sketch editor is not something I'd want to do myself
03:57.01 xipponk how do you go about it then, brlcad?
03:57.12 brlcad we focus mostly on the 3D aspects, on numerical stability, on ray-trace/analysis performance, etc
03:57.13 xipponk i was wondering if i could export qcad sketches to brlcad
03:57.33 brlcad qcad exports dxf, brl-cad has a dxf-g importer
03:57.56 brlcad it should preserve the 2D sketches if they are well formed
03:58.03 xipponk okay.
03:58.18 xipponk i thought it might be a nice shortcut :D
03:58.38 brlcad we don't get that request very often, though, so consider it non-stable
03:59.24 xipponk <PROTECTED>
03:59.49 brlcad we generally go about it by constructing in 3D, not 2D -- usually focus on CSG models combining the base primitives to form shapes, assemble those into regions/parts and those parts into groups/assemblies
04:00.21 xipponk through the mged commandprompt right?
04:01.04 brlcad command prompt, outboard tools assist certain complex operations, the gui and menus provide a lot of functionality
04:01.44 xipponk outboard tools?
04:01.47 xipponk i must be missing something.
04:01.50 brlcad it's not a discoverable interface, users are traditionally trained before they can use the modeler (as one usually is to touch unigraphics/proe/solidworks/etc)
04:02.19 brlcad you're probably reading docs on mged.. brl-cad is a system, mged is but one of over 400 tools
04:02.19 xipponk oh i see.
04:02.44 brlcad mind you, mged is one of the most useful/prominent right now, and is the primary gui solid modeling interface
04:03.02 brlcad but there are other facilities and tools too that focus on specific tasks
04:03.54 brlcad example model built entirely out of CSG operations on primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg
04:04.24 xipponk hmm.
04:04.28 xipponk that doesn't look simple.
04:05.19 brlcad you wouldn't be able to approach a task like that tank without several weeks of brl-cad training, and the modeling effort would still take you a couple weeks.. that's a fairly highly detailed model
04:05.36 xipponk ye gads.
04:05.37 brlcad includes everything inside too, not just the pretty outside
04:05.48 xipponk and all this done through the mged interface?
04:05.55 brlcad as well as the terrain and other volumetric effects
04:07.10 brlcad not all through mged, but probably 90% .. the tracks were modeled using another tool that helps replicate objects along a spline
04:07.35 brlcad i'm sure the terrain was processed using a couple other data manipulation tools in brl-cad and then read in by mged
04:07.45 brlcad everything else was though
04:07.55 xipponk interesting.
04:08.43 brlcad describing the material properties, the colors, the construction hierarchy, how to compose primitives into things that look like wheels and turrets, and hulls, etc
04:09.16 xipponk the mged file for that. ..
04:09.19 xipponk where do i find it?
04:09.28 brlcad not public releasable, sorry
04:09.35 brlcad wish I could actually
04:09.45 xipponk ah it's actual brl/arl material?
04:10.09 brlcad I've been trying to get release approval for one of the air force models of a russian tank that is just splendidly beautiful, but not getting too far there
04:10.21 brlcad that one, yes
04:10.29 brlcad the image is releasable, though ;-)
04:10.52 xipponk <PROTECTED>
04:10.59 xipponk the image ... is a tease!
04:11.07 brlcad heh, yep
04:11.22 brlcad that helicopter in the first image is in the distribution
04:11.36 brlcad that's a real model of a russian attack helicopter, albeit slightly dumbed down
04:11.53 brlcad s/slightly//
04:12.30 xipponk slightly?
04:12.52 xipponk it's missing the cannons?
04:13.25 brlcad lets just say that it probably doesn't have as much detail as the real deal, but it's still a rather nice model to play with
04:15.45 brlcad welp, I must depart .. if you have a question just post and lurk and someone should eventually respond -- cheers
04:16.22 xipponk thanks man.
04:25.21 IriX64 nice tank, and the conversation explains why I test with other peoples ms april.g files (read im not brlcad trained :))
04:29.13 IriX64 c2-cray-unicos-g++ <----get real :)
04:30.50 IriX64 he rolled the dice, and tada a pair of 7's came up ;)
04:32.24 IriX64 12:30am and i'm talking to my self again, i'll probably spend time in the brig for this.
04:51.44 BrownBear say i want to open up and view ktank.g in the db/ folder, how would i do that instead of doing draw part1, draw part2, etc....?
05:33.44 IriX64 load it and do a tops then e "something"
05:34.00 IriX64 in mged
06:28.27 IriX64 ``Erik: c2 build done.
06:33.16 IriX64 ValarQ: I hope you're awake.
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07:29.35 ``Erik BrownBear: ktank is weird in that there is no toplevelg grouping... it's easy to make one, though, "g all.g u tank u g17 u computer u engine" I think should do it
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060822

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060822

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01:56.23 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (tclscripts/helplib.tcl librt/wdb_obj.c):
01:56.23 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: Modified wdb_tree_cmd() and wdb_print_node() to provide the capabilities
01:56.23 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: the help command cliams for the "tree" command. Also modified the
01:56.24 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: helplib entry so that it agrees with the help message. This fixes bug
01:56.24 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: #1480522.
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05:33.51 IriX64 BrownBear: did you get it working?
05:35.14 IriX64 a little delayed... x86_64-me-gnu (certainly) ;)
05:36.53 IriX64 general question, why does freebsd not use .exe?
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07:41.14 IriX64 anybody awake?
07:44.34 ValarQ i am
07:44.55 ValarQ why the heck are you cutting all your screenshots?!?
07:45.16 IriX64 explain cutting.
07:45.28 IriX64 you mean cutting off?
07:45.39 IriX64 or sending to you?
07:46.24 ValarQ i mean that the shots isn't complete screenshots
07:46.38 ValarQ the right edge has been cut in almost every shot
07:46.45 IriX64 dont know how to drive 5-clicks very well yet.
07:47.16 ValarQ take shot25.jpg for example
07:47.24 IriX64 just a sec.
07:47.28 ValarQ i guess your screenresolution is 1024x768
07:47.35 ValarQ but the image is only 937x725
07:48.52 IriX64 function of the 5-click program.
07:49.53 ValarQ ok, i recomend imagemagick for taking screenshots
07:50.10 IriX64 i *bought 5-clicks :)
07:50.22 ValarQ bad for you :P
07:50.27 IriX64 cheap tho. :)
07:51.05 IriX64 installing linux64 brlcad.
07:51.07 ValarQ i got imagemagick for free with my internetconnection :)
07:51.30 IriX64 heh yeah but your in ther land of milk and honey :)
07:51.52 ValarQ yep
07:52.02 ValarQ no reason not to :o)
07:52.12 ValarQ (not for me anyway)
07:52.34 IriX64 honey is a state of fluidity ;)
07:53.27 ValarQ have you tested XGL?
07:53.42 IriX64 XGL?
07:53.49 IriX64 obviously not.
07:53.57 IriX64 :)
07:54.48 ValarQ it's a new fancy X11 server that uses OpenGL as backend
07:55.56 IriX64 I have an xwingl that i play with.
07:56.01 IriX64 xwingl
07:56.17 IriX64 doesnt look right in lower case :)
07:56.56 ValarQ http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/ <- contains some interesting videos
07:58.09 IriX64 thankyou ill go visit.
08:08.40 IriX64 interesting, dunno what all the files mean tho.
08:09.35 ValarQ what files?
08:11.27 IriX64 wanted the source tarball didnt know which one it is *shrug*
08:12.00 ValarQ ok, you should probably look for some install instructions for your system
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08:12.44 ValarQ http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XGL if you use gentoo for example
08:12.55 IriX64 in time :)
08:13.20 ValarQ yeah, i didn't expect you to install it right away
08:17.21 IriX64 heh thank you for understanding as bartles and james would say ;)
08:19.26 IriX64 you like gentoo don't you?
08:20.15 ValarQ yeah, gentoo works great
08:20.54 IriX64 supports all your hardware (I hate driver hell)?
08:21.38 ValarQ well, i use the linux kernel, so yes
08:22.21 IriX64 linux-gnu then?
08:22.25 ValarQ yeah
08:22.36 IriX64 64 bit?
08:22.39 ValarQ yes
08:22.43 ValarQ AMD64 X2
08:23.06 IriX64 AMD64 3800+
08:23.09 ValarQ 4400+ here
08:23.19 IriX64 show off :)
08:23.29 ValarQ it's a real monster :)
08:23.46 IriX64 careful it doesn't bite ;)
08:24.32 ValarQ it only bites scriptkiddies :o)
08:24.50 IriX64 ouch it just bit me :)
08:26.40 IriX64 farg it i'll let brlcad fix it ;)
08:27.02 IriX64 my bug that is the other i'll just get a band aid :)
08:31.53 clock_ what's a band aid?
08:37.59 IriX64 the concert they held for 3rd world countries :P
08:39.42 IriX64 what's your "Heavy Fuel"?
08:41.33 IriX64 I mean what make you run "cool" ?
08:41.58 IriX64 obviously im listening to music here.
08:42.02 IriX64 :)
08:42.09 IriX64 makes me think.
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11:34.09 brlcad fix what?
11:56.12 ``Erik `/det
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15:36.40 brlcad hmm.. so what sounds better for separating out the newer run-time library downloads from the rest of the regular release downloads?
15:37.08 brlcad "BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries" or "BRL-CAD Development Kits" or "BRL-CAD Runtime Kits", etc
15:37.49 brlcad example, under windows, there is a download that is just a single brlcad.dll for windows with associated documentation
15:38.10 brlcad having that in the "BRL-CAD for Windows" is causing way too many problems
15:49.57 clock_ BRLCAD Visual Builder ;-)
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18:36.21 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: If on Windows, change default display manager type to wgl instead of ogl.
18:58.56 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Removed call to Tk_IsMapped (i.e. it was being called with a Display pointer instead of a Tk_Window. Also added code to provide an option to color back facing polgons differently than front facing ones.
19:11.04 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the option to effectively toggle two sided lighting. Added a -noWaitCursor option to the draw method.
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19:42.10 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (archer archer.bat): Added code to handle an argument.
19:44.41 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: Include fb.h
19:47.49 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Added g_metaball.c to the build.
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20:39.18 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: libtclcad depends on libfb for tkImgFmtPIX fb_() image sizing functions
20:42.22 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added archer geometry/view loading via command-line arg
21:18.39 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: oops, declare dpy as a Display
21:19.35 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c): Tk_IsMapped takes a tkwin, not a Display, so give it what it wants for the sanity check. add another for the mainwindow too even.
21:29.45 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the tree command so that it now matches the documentation, by adding support for -i and -o. this fixes sf bug 1480522 'Tree cmd not accepting args' as reported by david lowman.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060823

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060823

00:08.40 BrownBear q
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01:49.50 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c:
01:49.50 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: bu_prmem() was printing the number of available slots in the memory debug
01:49.50 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: table. This was easily mis-interpreted as the number of memory allocations.
01:49.50 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: Since this is a diagnostic for how the memory debug table is being manipulated
01:49.50 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: and not something the average user/programmer wants to see, the value
01:49.52 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: was removed from bu_prmem()'s output. Minor benefit: The table now prints
01:49.54 CIA-11 BRL-CAD: one less line, so output is more compact.
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14:53.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-pex.c: missed pex interface, use xtkwin insted of dpy with Tk_IsMapped()
15:35.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/.cvsignore: ignore the auto-generated files so they aren't accidentally committed to cvs
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18:47.50 IriX64 brlcad: question, are adrt and x11 mutually exclusive?
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20:52.38 ``Erik adrt uses SDL, it should work fine with x11
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21:18.48 ``Erik http://www.libsdl.org
21:20.27 IriX64 thenk yeah. :)
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23:23.22 IriX64 ``Erik sdl install blew up on me :)
23:23.22 IriX64 but thanks.
23:23.23 brlcad adrt has nothing to do with the x11 detection
23:23.23 brlcad relies upon successful detection of sdl and python
23:23.23 IriX64 but it *wants sdl and python.
23:23.23 IriX64 whoa mind reader :)
23:23.40 ``Erik heh
23:23.44 ``Erik why are you looking at adrt?
23:23.49 brlcad even after detecting sdl and python, it's not likely going to compile without manual massaging and build fixing
23:24.21 ``Erik in like six months, adrt will be superceded, hopefully
23:24.21 IriX64 by?
23:24.21 ``Erik which is why I've psent the last two days in all-day meetings and will spend tomorrow there, too
23:24.21 ``Erik uh, it doesn't have an official name yet
23:24.42 IriX64 ok
23:24.47 ``Erik since you don't know what adrt is about, telling you anything about this new project would be useless for you
23:24.53 ``Erik trust me, don't bust your nuts over adrt just yet
23:24.53 IriX64 truvth ;)
23:24.59 pra5ad did the interactive rt presentation continue today?
23:25.19 ``Erik um, it was a recap of yesterdays material, for eds benefit
23:25.32 pra5ad nm then
23:25.42 ``Erik and mal showed us some of his stuff running on a sempron 1.6ghz
23:26.12 ``Erik got like ~3fps on the bigassed cathedral model
23:26.13 pra5ad dammit
23:26.16 ``Erik and a couple fps on an m1 with several colored lights
23:26.17 pra5ad the force told me that i had missed something
23:26.18 ``Erik but in the very near future, I can show you that
23:26.19 pra5ad k
23:36.46 ``Erik we got a cvs repo set up for it today, tomorrow we should have the code in the repo and my automake stuff bolted in
23:36.48 ``Erik MAYBE we'll have it working on a non-linux/amd64 arch
23:36.49 ``Erik or maybe I'll just have to find that leenewx amd64 box we have somewhere :)
23:36.57 pra5ad it's with tegt
23:36.59 pra5ad the dual opt
23:37.00 ``Erik I doubt he'd be upset if we came over to run a program on his box
23:37.04 ``Erik supposedly it works on ia32 leenewx
23:37.06 pra5ad i doubt he's using it at all
23:37.07 ``Erik maybe he shoved it in the office of someone who pissed him off...
23:37.08 ``Erik space heater that sounds like a fucking military jet, hehehehe
23:37.11 pra5ad where the hell is the fedex distro center around here
23:37.13 pra5ad missed a package
23:37.18 pra5ad can i go pick it up now?
23:37.38 ``Erik um, the closest fedex point last I heard was way down in like essex off of 40
23:37.40 ``Erik that day you got in the wreck, I had to drive down there to pick up some important documents
23:37.42 ``Erik with all the stoplights out
23:37.43 ``Erik :(
23:37.43 pra5ad tracking says it came from white marsh
23:37.48 ``Erik um, meh, it was off of 40
23:37.50 ``Erik and way way way sotuh
23:37.51 pra5ad er what wreck
23:37.51 ``Erik it might've technically been whitemarsh
23:37.53 ``Erik your old car? no?
23:38.03 pra5ad 5/2004?
23:38.03 ``Erik yeah
23:38.07 pra5ad when i wasn't working at arl?
23:38.09 ``Erik o.O
23:38.09 ``Erik I think it was '04
23:38.11 ``Erik in hurricane season
23:38.11 ``Erik you whacked your car on 40, right?
23:38.14 pra5ad oh
23:38.15 pra5ad nah, near college park
23:38.17 ``Erik oh, shit, power musta been out everywhere
23:38.18 pra5ad prolly
23:38.18 ``Erik cuz there was a harsh hurrican cutting through and I had to drive down 40 to get the thing from the fedex station in time
23:38.19 pra5ad 2 girls had their car slammed against one of the bldgs
23:38.20 pra5ad both died
23:38.20 pra5ad sisters too :(
23:38.22 ``Erik :/
23:38.25 ``Erik it'd be nice if this country weren't so car-centric.
23:38.49 ``Erik if I could take light rail to work, I SO would
23:38.49 pra5ad if i moved to dc, i would be able to
23:38.49 pra5ad of course that means i'd have to get up at 5
23:38.49 pra5ad which is a no no
23:38.49 dtidrow_work heh
23:38.49 ``Erik hahaha
23:38.49 ``Erik 5 is the time to go to sleep, dude
23:38.50 pra5ad exactly
23:38.50 pra5ad Aug 23, 2006 10:29 AM
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23:42.22 ``Erik fedex's website has a listing of locations
23:42.22 pra5ad <PROTECTED>
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23:42.30 pra5ad doh!
23:42.31 pra5ad sorry for the spam
23:42.32 ``Erik look up the facility, see if they're open, call 'em to see if they have your package... drive like the wind o.O
23:43.07 pra5ad why dont they have a damn system which tells u were the package is
23:43.10 pra5ad online
23:43.21 ``Erik erm, the tracking thing kinda does
23:43.44 dtidrow_work heh - it should display the gps coords of the truck so you can go and find it ;-)
23:43.46 pra5ad YES!
23:43.50 dtidrow_work with real-time updates :-)
23:43.50 ``Erik hm, yeah, so robbers can intercept the trucks easier?
23:43.56 ``Erik :)
23:44.01 dtidrow_work of course
23:44.04 ``Erik or the buzzword of the day, tarrsts
23:44.06 ``Erik we're fighting a WAR on TAR, damnit!!!
23:44.10 ``Erik heh
23:44.14 dtidrow_work tar as in the command?
23:44.15 ``Erik no, the roof goup
23:44.15 ``Erik goop
23:44.17 dtidrow_work ah
23:44.18 ``Erik tar rhymes with jar, and the gov't seems to be looking to suck java's dick lately. :(
23:44.21 ``Erik for "portability".
23:44.29 dtidrow_work now now...
23:44.30 ``Erik *grouse*
23:44.43 dtidrow_work would you rather have C#?
23:44.49 ``Erik hah.. I'd rather not have mono, thank you very much :)
23:45.02 ``Erik keep your herpes to yourself :)
23:45.19 dtidrow_work lol
23:45.20 dtidrow_work I trust M$ to fsck up C# if mono makes a big enough dent
23:45.20 ``Erik like j++?
23:45.21 dtidrow_work exactly
23:45.22 ``Erik and in 20 years, dotgnu will almost be ready to start, uh, somoething
23:45.27 ``Erik but only support hurd
23:45.27 dtidrow_work rofl
23:45.32 ``Erik which will almost be ready to start, uh, something
23:45.35 dtidrow_work they'll be starting to start ;-)
23:45.40 ``Erik aawwwww yyyyyeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
23:46.11 pra5ad gah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060824

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060824

00:01.56 pra5ad it's next to the mall
00:01.56 pra5ad can only pick it up friday
00:02.04 pra5ad bastards
00:02.05 ``Erik is it right off of 40?
00:02.05 ``Erik mebbe I didn't drive as far sotuh as I thought
00:02.05 dtidrow_work what's in the package?
00:02.06 pra5ad well it's on 7
00:02.25 pra5ad so yes, close to 40
00:02.25 ``Erik his authentic swedish penis pump.
00:02.31 dtidrow_work roflol
00:02.31 pra5ad swedish? pff
00:02.39 pra5ad swahilian
00:02.40 ``Erik hah
00:02.40 ``Erik it was an austin powers reference, twat :D
00:02.40 ``Erik cuz I'm hip and modern, baybee, yeaaahhhh
00:02.41 ``Erik *dance*
00:02.41 ``Erik day long meetings fuck with my brain.
00:02.42 dtidrow_work you still have a brain afterwards?
00:02.43 ``Erik yes
00:02.43 ``Erik I pickle it in the evenings :)
00:02.50 ``Erik and this was the second full day
00:02.50 ``Erik tomorrow is the last full day
00:02.54 dtidrow_work ouch
00:02.57 pra5ad that's what was inside sean's picked jar
00:02.57 pra5ad pickle
00:03.04 dtidrow_work 3 days of meetings? eeeek
00:03.19 ``Erik and I've lived in japan and korea, I usually gross poeple out with what I've eaten! :D
00:04.38 ``Erik computer designed diesel car hit 328mph, neat
00:06.11 ``Erik and 350 the next day
00:06.41 dtidrow_work is that the Audi that ran at Le Mans?
00:06.44 ``Erik heh, no, custom job, completely computer controlled
00:06.44 dtidrow_work got a link for it?
00:06.45 ``Erik slashdot.org
00:06.45 dtidrow_work ah
00:06.45 ``Erik and the stock m3 romped a stock v8 audi r4 on a straight run, so nyah
00:12.56 ``Erik v8 and 4wd wasn't nuff :D
00:13.06 dtidrow_work http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI.html - here's the one I was thinking of
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00:13.14 ``Erik hehehe
00:13.14 ``Erik not a street car
00:45.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c src/librt/tcl.c): (log message trimmed)
00:45.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Consistently use integers instead of shorts for the region id, air code, GIFT
00:45.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: material code, and los value for the rt_comb_internal structure. region ids are
00:45.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: already handled almost entirely as integers throughout the code, but the usage
00:45.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: of shorts in the comb structure seems to be a carry-over from prior v4 format
00:45.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: support that was never changed. a review of code seems to indicate that the
00:45.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: only negative impact should only be rather unsupported behavior if someone
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01:34.03 kosty Ping...
01:42.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/ged.c): ctrl-d on an empty shell line now quits mged like one might expect for an interactive console shell. this addresses sf bug report 1543495.
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02:17.24 brlcad kosty: pong
02:36.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: prevent dereference crash if there is an uninitialized display
02:37.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: simple infinite loop protection on the attach prompt (it can go into an inf loop on unexpected input (e.g. ctrl-d)). also protect against dereference crashes when there is no display.
03:02.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/attach.c): prevent infinite loop on classic mged attach prompt. check whether fgets is stuck on EOF so we can cancel the prompt.
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17:02.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: added function prototypes, C linkage wrapper
17:05.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: added return from pkg_permserver_ip (oops); made strings const for pkg_open - since they should be...
17:50.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c):
17:50.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: according to one of the tcl devs (thx jenglish), Tk_IsMapped() is not what we
17:50.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: should be using to determine if the tkwin is 'valid' .. being 'mapped'
17:50.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: apparently means that there is a window that has been explicitly mapped via a
17:50.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Tk_MapWindow() call or is otherwise fully drawn/displayed. fall back to a
17:50.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: simple non-null check instead.
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20:52.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: quell prototype warnings by making the errlog callback function match the signature via a simple passthrough to a rem_log().
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20:56.05 *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060825

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060825

01:14.33 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl:
01:14.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Somewhere along the line "smooth_bot" command got changed to
01:14.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: "bot_smooth", but the help never got changed. The help now agrees with
01:14.34 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the command.
03:08.36 IriX64 is jove still supported? I notice it's gone from the summary printout.
03:10.41 IriX64 err never mind :)
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18:44.37 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: decode the title before printing it to console too
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20:03.18 IriX64 ValarQ: it took a long time to put those snapshots together for you, do you like them? ;)
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22:11.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: add a history section, credit mike of course. cover a little more detail on the languages in use. line count is over a million now.
22:13.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: line counts are more than a million now
22:22.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: more than a million lines, squeeze in to 2000 chars
22:26.36 IriX64 anybody, what version of postscript are we dealing with here?
22:27.38 IriX64 and if i redirect to a file can adobe acrobat be used?
22:31.50 brlcad should work
22:32.01 IriX64 thank you.
22:39.10 IriX64 ValarQ: I know, Iknow, send code eh. :)
22:42.42 IriX64 png.c: In function 'CommonReadPNG':
22:42.45 IriX64 png.c:373: warning: the address of 'png_get_sRGB', will always evaluate as 'true
22:42.59 IriX64 for what its worth brlcad.
22:44.33 brlcad i don't maintain libpng's code ;)
22:44.47 IriX64 understood ;)
22:44.53 brlcad we need to update our sources to their recent patch update, it might address that
22:45.09 IriX64 agreed.
22:46.50 brlcad feel free to download and compile and see ;)
22:46.59 IriX64 hahah you too.
22:47.31 IriX64 -4
22:52.01 IriX64 add !=NULL you'll be allright. :)
22:52.56 brlcad IriX64 = NULL;
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22:53.25 IriX64 whup wrong key sequence :)
22:59.49 ``Erik that's not libpng, is it... that's tkimg...
23:01.05 IriX64 png.c forget which one now not othew, the first one you encounter.
23:01.15 IriX64 other too.
23:01.22 IriX64 already fixed here.
23:02.18 brlcad ahh
23:02.30 brlcad still not ours to care about if it don't halt the build..
23:02.42 brlcad unless someone wants to provide 'em patches
23:04.02 IriX64 maybe ill do that.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060826

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060826

00:38.14 brlcad ``Erik: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2006/tn2161.html
00:58.44 ``Erik heh, tell mal, not me :)
01:07.35 brlcad ahh, interesting.. apparently this was a recently _dropped_ feature, 4.0.1 gcc on mac disabled it
01:07.57 brlcad which means we could have simply selected a different gcc version (several are installed) and moved on
01:08.05 brlcad http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2005/Nov/msg00274.html
01:10.46 ``Erik that was old ocde that's being thrown away
01:10.54 ``Erik the new code compiled fine on my g4 lappie
01:20.24 IriX64 patch? for a simple !=NULL? ;)
01:20.50 IriX64 the user should do *some work :)
01:23.02 IriX64 maybe I should use bu_free() on it ;)
01:24.13 IriX64 a friend of mine named sean tells me that code can't possibly work :)
01:25.06 IriX64 sigh starting over is hard to do but lets see where cygwin is today.
01:40.22 IriX64 gotta reboot. cya
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02:11.53 Maloeran Thanks brlcad, Erik forwarded the url :)
02:42.00 brlcad np :)
02:44.56 Maloeran brlcad, any interest in a bicycle ride tomorrow? I guess you might have replied to Lee's message already
02:45.15 brlcad yeah, I just saw it
02:45.32 brlcad i normally would, but I have crew practice most all saturday morning
02:46.34 Maloeran Ah, unfortunate. All right then
02:46.42 brlcad 5am until about 10am, and then I'm usually beat..
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08:47.52 UltraMagnus hi
08:48.38 UltraMagnus how do i install brl-cad when it is not in my distro's repositoriese? please, i am kinda new to linux.....
08:49.07 clock_ UltraMagnus: download and compile from the sources
08:49.34 UltraMagnus clock_: ok, uh, how do i do that?
08:49.49 clock_ UltraMagnus: download the .tgz file, unpack and go according to the README
08:49.50 clock_ inside
08:50.13 UltraMagnus ok, thanks
08:52.34 UltraMagnus uhh, i went to "brl-cad" for linux on the brlcad website, and there are 6 differnt files, how do i know what one i need?
08:53.44 clock_ UltraMagnus: you need the sources
09:07.40 brlcad UltraMagnus: there's basically only three choices -- ia32, ia64, and amd64 (x86_64)
09:08.08 brlcad depending on your distribution of linux and your hardware, ia32 may indeed work for you
09:08.20 UltraMagnus yeah, i realised that..... i guessed i needed ia32, thanks
09:08.46 brlcad otherwise you will need to go to the BRL-CAD Source section and compile the package for your system like clock suggested
09:09.13 UltraMagnus oh, so this isnt the sources?
09:10.01 UltraMagnus so, what is this i just downloaded then? the....... uh, binary?
09:10.15 UltraMagnus what do i need to do with this then?
09:11.01 brlcad well, it's a binary for linux that you're downloading
09:11.13 brlcad you'll want to follow the instructions in the INSTALL file
09:11.38 brlcad which basically amount to copying the usr/brlcad directory in there to /usr/.
09:12.35 brlcad i got to run out for a bit.. back in a while if you still need help .. most everything is in the INSTALL file, various sections
09:12.43 UltraMagnus where is the install file?
09:13.39 brlcad it's in both the source and binary downloads
09:13.49 brlcad or go to it directly here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/INSTALL
09:14.12 brlcad good luck, gotta run..
09:15.09 UltraMagnus thanks
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12:33.16 ``Erik row row row a boat
12:45.16 IriX64 urf, only 120gigs left better clean house :)
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17:37.41 UltraMagnus hmm, ok, i have extracted the linux binary, how do i get it to..... uh..... work?
17:42.48 ``Erik there should be a brlcad/bin dir with lots of programs, the one you probably want to try running is "mged"
17:45.00 brlcad *after* you move that brlcad dir into /usr/.
17:46.29 UltraMagnus ok, but how do i add it to my menu? usually i will just use alacarte to add it via the console command, but it currently doesnt have a console command...
17:47.11 ``Erik ROW ROW ROW A BOUT
17:47.13 ``Erik boat, even
17:47.14 ``Erik hehehe
17:47.15 ``Erik :D
17:48.02 ``Erik UltraMagnus: there's four hundred and something binaries to brlcad, it's a big honkin' suite, not "program" :)
17:49.01 UltraMagnus ``Erik: uh, isnt there some sort of unifying program? or something.....
17:50.23 brlcad in short - no, though most people jump in and use "mged" for starters as it is a gui application
17:50.37 brlcad and has the most extensive documentation, and is a solid modeler, etc
17:51.01 brlcad probably the closest to "unifying" that there is for now
17:51.15 brlcad still.. before you go adding shortcuts and all, you really should make sure it works
17:52.16 brlcad If you installed everything correctly, you should be able to run this and have some windows pop up:
17:52.19 brlcad /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
17:52.43 brlcad if that works, you can add that as a menu item or shortcut or whatever your heart desires
17:54.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL:
17:54.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: more detailed testing section, with details on testing functionality before and
17:54.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: after installation. also, make the quick instructions be an optimized build.
17:54.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: give examples on how to provide custom flags during configure and make too.
17:54.53 brlcad if that doesn't work typed *exactly* like that, then you've missed some installation step
18:04.03 UltraMagnus ok, thanks
18:04.22 UltraMagnus thanks everyone for your help! and thanks for putting up with my absolute ignorance!
18:04.30 UltraMagnus bye all
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18:14.50 IriX64 `Erik... get that boat ashore yet?
18:14.59 IriX64 :)
18:15.17 ``Erik <-- not the one who was boating
18:15.47 IriX64 show.... me that in the backscroll ;)
18:17.35 IriX64 my knucles are bleeding slightly from latest cygwin attempt. :)
18:17.41 IriX64 knuckles too.
18:18.47 IriX64 why cygwin tho when i have redhat 6.0 (Hedwig) running on Twingys vm.
18:19.49 IriX64 I'm necient about some things, how do you start the network in RedHat?
18:20.40 dtidrow I seem to have had better luck building stuff with mingw than cygwin
18:20.54 IriX64 never tried mingw.
18:21.17 dtidrow starting the network in RedHat: ifup eth0
18:21.25 IriX64 ty
18:21.44 dtidrow do you have it set for dhcp?
18:23.56 IriX64 all the defaults for workstation whatever they are.
18:24.18 IriX64 comes back ifup <device name>
18:45.46 brlcad if only because of the fewer dependencies and licensing details
18:45.57 brlcad msys is a nice subset at that too
19:02.17 Maloeran You can always pass -mno-cygwin to cygwin, mingw is lacking many packages by default
19:06.37 ``Erik <-- does the -mno-cygwin trick when he has to touch that os cuz he likes automake too much...
19:19.05 brlcad i like the fact that it's "missing" a lot by default -- I usually want it for minimal build environment, not interactive use
19:22.09 ``Erik heh, I just want to take my code developed on bsd or linux, run "configure&&make" and have the .exe to give to winiots...
19:22.20 ``Erik not exactly interactive use
19:23.22 Maloeran Quite, you at least need Make... unless you want to write out a .bat file or something :)
19:24.34 brlcad mingw includes the default build stuff, even msys includes make
19:24.45 ``Erik "configure" requires at least a posix shell, though *shrug*
19:24.55 ``Erik and nmake is grotesquely differen than unix breed makes
19:25.09 ``Erik last I looked, anyways
19:26.52 brlcad are we talking about the same thing? last time I checked, mingw/msys provides the shell, make, binutils, autotools, etc
19:28.23 brlcad Maloeran: how was the ride?
19:28.47 ``Erik but it's been five years, y'know?
19:30.03 Maloeran Quite nice, brlcad, the area we went to was surprisingly quiet. As well, Lee isn't in bad shape
19:30.09 brlcad msys is supposed to be the bare "mininmal system" subset of mingw that gets a configure script to work (including the implicitly required tools, make, gcc, ld, cat, grep, etc, etc)
19:30.28 brlcad Maloeran: really? hmm.. i was just about to ask
19:30.43 brlcad if there was any trouble keeping up
19:30.45 ``Erik rode around abingdon?
19:30.54 brlcad (not you, him)
19:31.21 Maloeran He's riding a recumbant so he got some aerodyamic advantage, but it wasn't a problem
19:31.23 ``Erik he cheats with that recumbant, though, less air resistance, less full body exercise...
19:32.18 brlcad when I've ridden, the aerodynamic advantage hasn't been enough ..
19:32.23 Maloeran Eheh :), I of course didn't go as fast as I could, but we kept a reasonable pace
19:32.41 brlcad i generally have to hold *waaay* back
19:32.49 clock_ wayback machine
19:33.08 brlcad not that he can't keep a good pace, just not what I usually go at
19:33.14 ``Erik ya shoulda gave it some juice to leave him behind, mal :D I bet that trek would hold itself together for that ;)
19:34.45 Maloeran Mmhm :). The pace was reasonable really, I expected worse
19:35.08 Maloeran I have friends who certainly ride slower than Lee
19:37.10 ``Erik though I'd probably exhaust myself just getting onto it :)
19:37.49 brlcad heh
19:37.54 Maloeran You should go for a ride with Lee every Saturday morning, that will give you an excellent reason to get in good shape :)
19:38.25 ``Erik I can think of better things to do saturday morning
19:39.26 brlcad should at least get sam to pay you to go to the gym a couple times a week for a few months
19:39.30 Maloeran Being in good shape generally gives you more energy to be more productive in most activities, as well as increasing the life expectancy
19:39.37 Maloeran So it's generally a good.. investment
19:39.38 ``Erik sam?
19:39.39 brlcad or was it just a month? either way..
19:39.42 brlcad uncle sam
19:39.45 ``Erik oh
19:39.56 ``Erik yeah, one of these days, I'll go to the gym
19:40.06 ``Erik I got the one here my hoa pays for, I got to that once every few months
19:40.21 brlcad might as well *pay* you to go :)
19:40.27 ``Erik but all I do is see what my limits are
19:40.31 Maloeran I don't understand that. People travels in their car, but spend hours at the gym. Anyone sees how to combine the two? :)
19:40.53 brlcad Maloeran: yeah, live in a city :)
19:40.58 ``Erik alexis: when bicycling to work is a possiblity, people around here do it... for many, it's not
19:42.03 Maloeran Yes, this area could use some investment for small tracks dedicated to bicycles going between cities...
19:42.11 Maloeran or between towns, rather
19:42.19 ``Erik cars hitting deer or dogs or cats is a relatively common occurance out here, bicycles aren't TOO terribly different on those roads
19:43.01 ``Erik and I'm sure you can appreciate the consequences of a car vs bicycle collision ;) *duck*
19:43.02 brlcad i ride quite a bit and have nearly been hit several times just in the past couple years
19:43.15 ``Erik like on 40?
19:43.36 brlcad 40's actually pretty nice
19:43.45 Maloeran I have never been "hit" by a car really. I mostly tend to ram into car doors opening right in front of me
19:43.47 ``Erik yeah, straight with nice big shoulders
19:43.54 brlcad only have to worry about idiots that try to cause a scare by throwing or yelling something
19:43.56 ``Erik hit by, hit a, whatever
19:44.03 ``Erik and gravel
19:44.36 Maloeran I sure am beginning to miss Montreal's bicycle lanes and roads dedicated to pedestrians and bicycles
19:44.43 brlcad i've had a big truck pass me only to make almost an immediate right turn right in front of me (going 25mph mind you)
19:45.21 Maloeran Ow. With good brakes, it should still be fine
19:45.22 brlcad that was pretty bad.. I barely skidded to a halt within a foot or so of the truck
19:45.31 ``Erik there are a couple bike lanes out here, but not enough to make the bicycle a good regular commuter vehicle... and if there's snow, those lanes don't get plowed
19:46.28 ``Erik <-- wouldn't rely on a motorcycle out here, either... need something with 4 wheels and a roll cage, protection from the elements is nice, too :/
19:46.58 Maloeran With the kind of temperature you have here, I sure wish my bicycle had air conditionning
19:47.23 ``Erik 35c and brutal humidity isn't comfortable for ya? ;)
19:47.30 brlcad i like the thrill, flying down a hill at 50mph on my bike is quite a rush...
19:47.56 Maloeran No Erik, definitely not :)
19:47.57 ``Erik ummm, what did it get up to a couple weeks ago, 46c?
19:48.02 ``Erik (115f, right?)
19:48.02 brlcad course so are most life-threatening situations
19:48.30 brlcad it's not been horribly hot lately
19:48.38 ``Erik yeah, the last couple weeks
19:48.39 brlcad couple weeks ago was pretty bad
19:48.41 ``Erik but we had a front that was rough
19:48.44 Maloeran 50mph on a bicycle? I don't think my gears go far enough for that, it's a hybrid
19:49.37 Maloeran Unless you meant 50km/h? You sure get some awful air resistance at 50mph
19:49.39 brlcad Maloeran: going down a very large hill that has a good 10-20% grade, for almost a mile
19:49.48 Maloeran Eheh, I see
19:49.50 brlcad nope, mph
19:50.23 brlcad quite exhilirating.. the slightest rock or puncture and I would have been launched
19:50.48 Maloeran A day or two after some storm or cyclon hit the american east coast, I remember having much fun riding a bicycle in winds of 70km/h
19:51.56 brlcad in the fall here, the winds pick up pretty heavy -- only 30-40mph or so, but it's enough to knock you off the bike in a gust if you're not careful
19:52.26 Maloeran *nods* That's some powerful wind, yes
19:52.30 ``Erik heh, I've watched cars almost blown out of control, too
19:53.32 ``Erik suv's seem the worst, large side area, drivers who feel too 'safe' and complacent... ;)
19:53.51 brlcad yeah
19:54.10 ``Erik (though the minivan that did a few spins behind me in snow was amusing... one fo those blue taxi things)
20:03.46 Maloeran Erik, did Lee put the code to read BRL-CAD files in the raytracer cvs or elsewhere?
20:04.03 Maloeran Or maybe it just isn't completed yet
20:14.05 ``Erik heh, I d'no
20:15.33 ``Erik I scrolled back through some history and see no commits from lee in the last few days
20:22.49 Maloeran Right, I'm supposed to be reading BRL-CAD geometry by September 1st so I'm wondering
20:25.50 ``Erik it's a milestone, not a deadline...
20:26.21 ``Erik and if worst comes to worst, you can copy g-stl.c or g-obj.c and alter it to your liking
20:40.42 IriX64 bikes? get with with a motor :)
20:56.48 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-182.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:24.03 ``Erik http://www.bash.org/?670444
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060827

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060827

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12:27.23 Sarmatian Hello.
12:28.55 Sarmatian ???
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21:17.27 IriX64 whey :)
21:18.01 IriX64 my cygwin runs brlcad :)
21:18.05 IriX64 finally.
21:18.29 IriX64 builds and runs that is.
21:18.58 brlcad you were having trouble building under cygwin?
21:21.22 IriX64 yes
21:21.53 IriX64 fixed now :)
21:22.42 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308281.sympatico.ca)
21:23.43 IriX64 and now irssi runs too.
21:25.05 IriX64 mged is beautiful, but you should rename it brlcad.exe ;)
21:25.57 brlcad no way
21:26.01 IriX64 that geometry browser has tops and e beat all to hell.
21:26.03 brlcad it's far from "brlcad.exe"
21:26.14 IriX64 hehe allright.
21:26.43 IriX64 should have one master file renamed that though:)
21:27.02 IriX64 perhaps rt.exe?
21:27.05 IriX64 :)
21:28.36 IriX64 how do i make a unified diff and send it to the appropriate people?
21:29.28 IriX64 never tried a unified diff before.
21:29.59 IriX64 is ValarQ around?
21:30.20 IriX64 wanted to apologize for the clutter of the in box. :)
21:57.53 IriX64 smoke break, bbiab
22:00.14 brlcad IriX64: diff -u
22:00.29 brlcad the HACKING file has more detail
22:59.14 IriX64 brlcad: thank you very much.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060828

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060828

00:09.55 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
00:09.55 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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00:47.42 IriX64 ValarQ: want to compare desktops? I've tided mine up ;)
00:47.52 IriX64 tidied too.
00:52.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: add PKG_EXTERN and PKG_ARGS wrappers like the other libs, consistently make all the buffers char *
00:53.21 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: consistently use char * buffers (instead of unsigned) and be more specific on the errlog callbacks
00:54.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: quell warnings on the errlog callback by defining a remrt_log() that passes through to bu_log().
00:55.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): quell libpkg warnings now that there are more comprehensive declarations.
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01:44.55 IriX64 amazing what ctrl-c will do :)
01:46.07 IriX64 .c
01:46.08 IriX64 bltCanvEps.c:1690: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
01:46.08 IriX64 bltCanvEps.c:1692: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
01:46.08 IriX64 bltCanvEps.c:1693: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
01:46.08 IriX64 bltCanvEps.c: In function `Blt_InitEpsCanvasItem':
01:46.11 IriX64 bltCanvEps.c:1717: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
01:46.23 IriX64 thought you fixed that :)
01:51.54 brlcad like I said on friday, generally don't go about changing code in src/other unless it halts the build
01:52.26 brlcad that's not our code to maintain, no sense wasting our time
01:52.39 IriX64 ahh, doesn't halt the build but may cause erratic runtime operation.
01:53.14 IriX64 just out of curiousity which part of the code tree is yours?
01:53.46 brlcad the point still stands, that's external code that we ship *only* for convenience (with a few minor exceptions like jove)
01:54.00 IriX64 . taken.
01:54.46 brlcad the alternative is to have people go download and install or download, compile, and install those packages on their own like many packages require
01:55.02 IriX64 now i see thanks.
01:55.18 brlcad and you wouldn't think to fix issues in dependencies
01:55.34 IriX64 I might :)
01:55.38 brlcad i mean, if you do.. might as well make a patch and provide it to those package's maintainers
01:55.53 brlcad otherwise it's just idle effort
01:56.04 IriX64 means getting involved with cvs. though.
01:56.06 brlcad that has pretty much nothing to do with brl-cad
01:56.15 brlcad not necessarily
01:56.23 brlcad you don't have to have cvs to make a patch
01:56.39 IriX64 how do i get it to them?
01:56.47 brlcad heh
01:57.22 brlcad it depends on the project, everyone has their own process .. you'd have to contact whomever's code you're messing with
01:57.49 brlcad our process for our code is pretty straightforward and documented
01:58.33 IriX64 code isn't considered reading though :)
02:02.08 brlcad you're only touching the tip of the iceberg regarding warnings
02:02.18 brlcad add --enable-warnings to configure
02:02.41 IriX64 isn't that verbose-warnings?
02:03.17 brlcad synonym option
02:03.29 IriX64 understood.
02:50.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
02:50.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the debugbu 2 bug occurs because bu_memdebug_add() is not called unless memory
02:50.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: checking is enabled via bu_debug. so when bu_debug is set to 2 or 3, it ends up
02:50.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: reporting errors during bu_free() for items that were allocated and were not yet
02:50.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: being tracked.
03:08.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: even if we're in debug mode, don't abort the requested task (i.e. free'ing memory) else invoke the wrath of corrupted leaky memory
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05:52.51 sebastienbailard I was wondering, is anyone working on QCAD integration inside BRL-CAD?
05:54.16 sebastienbailard (Is anyone on tonight?)
06:08.12 sebastienbailard I'll try again another time.
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12:51.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/printb.c mged/cmd.c): ws
13:50.15 ``Erik sean, ya handy?
13:53.42 brlcad two of them even
13:53.55 brlcad blaming shite one me, I hear
13:54.11 brlcad build for that lib hasn't changed since 2004 (i.e. ever)
13:54.24 clock_ brlcad: what about making "sucess stories" section for brlcad and putting Ronja there?
13:54.36 brlcad clock_: already have you in
13:54.56 brlcad you just can't see the new site yet ;)
13:54.57 clock_ brlcad: hehe where?
13:55.02 clock_ brlcad: lol :)
13:55.10 brlcad it's sitting in a prototype dir
13:55.19 brlcad while the new site is worked on and tested out
14:01.18 ``Erik :D
14:01.36 clock_ brlcad: do you have other app stories than ronja?
14:01.37 ``Erik I think we figured out that it never behaved as they expected
14:02.47 ``Erik they want weird behavior, I was wondering if you had a slick angle for it... they want librt, libbu, libbn and libtcl statically linked in, but the others (libm, libc) dynamic... I came up with $(topbuild_dir)/src/lib/librt/.libs/librt.a or including alllllll the .o files in one link
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14:17.26 brlcad ``Erik: yuck yuck
14:17.34 brlcad and non-portable
14:17.58 brlcad that'll fail on the server builds (aix for sure, possibly altix)
14:18.25 brlcad i think it just has to use convenience libs so that it's all bundled
14:19.25 brlcad which isn't so bad I suppose, I've been meaning to make a "geometry engine" mega library akin to daniel's brlcad.dll for windows anyways, and they'd be needed for that too
14:37.36 brlcad hehe, it's a 10MB static lib, 8MB jnilib now :)
14:38.08 brlcad (at least on os x)
14:40.53 ``Erik that's what they want *shrug* don't make sense to me, but... little they do does ;) *duck*
14:42.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/Makefile.am libbn/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): create convenience libraries for libbu, libbn, and librt so that they may be used in other libraries to fully resolve symbols (by virtue of full inclusion).
14:44.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: use the new convenience libraries for libbu, libbn, librt instead of using the usual lib_LTLIBRARY so that we don't end up creating a jnilib that has rpath run-time requirements looking up librt, libbn, and libbu.
14:45.17 ``Erik he's in rons office
14:45.27 brlcad heh
14:46.09 ``Erik <-- coulda walked around the corner and told him it was done... :)
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18:33.38 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbu/hash.c: Added bu_get_hash_key()
18:34.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: on second thought, remove libtclcad.. it really doesn't 'fit' well with the rest without including all of brl-cad's libs
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18:49.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (other/libtcl/Makefile.am librtserver/Makefile.am): make/use noinst convenience library for libtcl just like was done for bu, bn, rt so that librtserver can have no dependencies other than guaranteed system ones
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18:52.08 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: added new bu_get_hash_key() decl
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19:25.35 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: there may not exist a libtcl_nil.la if building tcl was disabled to act accordingly
19:29.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: make a convenience library for libwdb so that it may be bundled into other libraries
19:36.56 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Changed the JNI wrapper names to agree with the new class names in the MUVES3 brlcadservice
19:59.43 brlcad ``Erik: any reason why all the libs are set to version 19?
20:44.32 ``Erik uhmmmmmmm, because when I changed it from cake, they were all 19, and I was told to retain library version numbers, and that all libraries would have the same version...
20:45.00 ``Erik the reason is across the hall from you :)
20:46.40 clock_ "because when I [...] they were all 19, and I was told to [...] library [...] number, and that all [...] would have the same [...]"
20:46.59 clock_ After a bit of cutting sonds like an interesting student's story with girls
20:47.11 ``Erik like, totally
20:56.16 ``Erik from the looks of it, it's based on the RCS tag in /gen.sh, snarfed through sh/sharedlibvers.sh
20:57.04 ``Erik gets into cakefile.defs into LIBVERS
20:59.21 brlcad ahh, that beastie
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21:51.09 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
22:32.48 IriX64 good dog. :)
22:38.57 IriX64 Is there any way to get Murphys Law repealed? perhaps if we launch a mass appeal? :)
22:40.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am:
22:40.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: initial functional stubbings for a 'brlcad' library. use the newly added
22:40.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: libbu/libbn/librt/libwdb convenience libraries, mimicking what is already done
22:40.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: for the windows dll. don't enable the actual installable object yet until the
22:40.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: next minor release.
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22:56.14 IriX64 get with it :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060829

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060829

00:41.58 *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-240-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
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01:27.07 sebastienbailard Hello, anyone here today?
01:28.31 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca)
01:28.39 sebastienbailard Hey.
01:28.48 IriX64 hey
01:28.52 IriX64 sups?
01:29.00 sebastienbailard Don't know. Just came on.
01:29.11 sebastienbailard I think everyone is busy.
01:29.23 IriX64 usually you ask for help here.:)
01:29.29 IriX64 and they reply given time.
01:29.30 sebastienbailard Ah. I like to ask to ask, before I ask.
01:29.46 sebastienbailard I've got a question about brlcad's UI.
01:30.06 IriX64 i only type with two fingers, sorry im so slow.
01:30.11 sebastienbailard Are people planning on integrating qcad for 2D input?
01:30.18 IriX64 ask someone may answer.
01:30.26 IriX64 whats qcad?
01:30.41 sebastienbailard It's a really good linux 2d cad program.
01:31.04 sebastienbailard http://www.nabble.com/-brlcad---Developers--QCAD-integration-inside-BRL-CAD--t2001250.html
01:31.05 IriX64 brlcad is misnamed it should be brlmodelling.
01:31.26 sebastienbailard People use it to design machinery, right?
01:31.47 IriX64 model things, weapons systems and anything else.
01:32.06 sebastienbailard So it's a modeler, it's not for design?
01:32.12 sebastienbailard Huh.
01:32.21 IriX64 design *to model.
01:32.29 sebastienbailard Ah.
01:32.48 sebastienbailard It's just there aren't any decent gpl 3D CAD programs.
01:33.04 IriX64 gpl?
01:33.20 sebastienbailard GNU public license. Like linux, or emacs.
01:33.38 IriX64 so you want the cadillac for free?
01:33.51 sebastienbailard Pretty much, yes.
01:34.28 IriX64 well you have it in BrlCad :P
01:34.32 sebastienbailard The way it is right now, people at the mit-type fab labs use blender to design the stuff they fabricate.
01:34.58 sebastienbailard Right, but BrlCad's user interface is a little intimidating.
01:35.06 IriX64 how?
01:35.30 sebastienbailard Let's put it this way. I asked three experienced people what they thought of brl cad
01:35.39 sebastienbailard should I learn to use it, and so on.
01:35.46 IriX64 and?
01:35.49 sebastienbailard Got three 'no's.
01:36.03 IriX64 so why are you here?
01:36.16 sebastienbailard I was coming to ask about the qcad stuff.
01:36.39 IriX64 ill let someone who knows what qcad is answer that.
01:37.05 sebastienbailard I figured if people had a good way to do 2D input using brl cad, they'd be more motivated to learn the 3d stuff.
01:37.34 IriX64 why work in 2d when you can work in 3d.?
01:37.52 sebastienbailard 1) Sometimes all people need is 2d.
01:38.03 IriX64 Those experienced people couldn't have been experienced in brlcad.
01:38.08 sebastienbailard 2) People can figure out 2d easier than 3d.
01:38.34 sebastienbailard Ah yes. My point there was - they had all looked at brlcad, and were scared off.
01:38.54 IriX64 if the tool doesn't suit you buy another tool why should brlcad regress?
01:39.24 sebastienbailard I don't mean to be rude. My point is that brlcad might need a bit of candy-coating.
01:39.46 sebastienbailard Assuming you guys want more people to use brlcad.
01:39.47 IriX64 for those too lazy to take the tutorials?
01:40.38 sebastienbailard Ah. I didn't mean to offend.
01:41.58 sebastienbailard Is anyone else there?
01:44.40 sebastienbailard Is anyone using brlcad to generate g-code then?
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07:44.18 *** join/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl)
07:45.18 SWAT How do I start brlcad, do I need to compile it and where is the README file?
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11:34.36 brlcad SWAT: brl-cad is a suite of many many tools .. what you "start" depends on what you want to do
11:35.03 brlcad most start with the solid modeler mged, which has a gui and associated documentation
11:36.23 brlcad SWAT: the readme is in both the source and binary distributions, in the binary distribution, it's embedded in the documentation directory in usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/README
11:37.42 brlcad in the source distribution, the README is right there in the top level directory
11:37.49 brlcad you can view it on-line here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/README
11:44.54 SWAT thanks
13:07.55 ``Erik in addition to the package inclusion...
13:26.07 SWAT well, it 'normal' to put the README in the top dir
13:26.18 SWAT just like the INSTALL (if applicable)
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13:42.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: Tcl_SetErrno dummy function
13:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: added bu_fgets.c
13:46.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: added transform.c
13:47.58 brlcad hello rossberg, how goes things?
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13:58.56 rossberg brlcad: good, today is my first working day after vacation
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14:28.02 brlcad rossberg: ahh, nice
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16:56.40 ``Erik 2/det
17:14.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/g_metaball.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language.
17:30.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fix a crash in the exporter...
17:33.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c typein.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language.
17:47.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (edsol.c sedit.h): Added "method" to metaball struct. Begin stubbing out ECMD stuff. Changed some language.
18:02.50 brlcad "method"?
18:03.02 ``Erik yeah
18:03.27 ``Erik selectable formulas for evaluating field strength at a given point
18:03.42 brlcad ahh
18:03.54 brlcad you coulda just said that :)
18:04.24 brlcad i'm thinking.. method for evaluation? method for rendering? c++ methods? method for deleting? method for creating? ?? :)
18:04.51 ``Erik uh, ok, sed -i.bak 's/method/selectableformulaforevaluatingfieldstrengthatagivenpoint/g' `find . -type f` && cvs commit -m 'rephrasing'
18:04.53 ``Erik :D
18:04.58 brlcad heh
18:05.47 ``Erik <-- ass
18:06.02 ``Erik my run-on sentences rock
18:11.43 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:11.43 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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20:07.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: It looks like the intent was to struct copy a "struct in_addr" in the _pkg_permserver_impl function.
20:09.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added method to purge edit history. More mods to accomodate ogl being replaced by wgl.
20:13.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c ged.c): Mods to get things to natively compile on Windows.
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20:55.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: minor, consolidate return
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21:27.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c:
21:27.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: get rid of the _WIN32 sections for recv/send instead of read/write .. this
21:27.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: really shouldn't be necessary if the compatibility macros in the config_win.h
21:27.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: header are specified correctly, but for now keep it as it is just without all
21:27.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the repetition by using macros that call the corresponding routine. oh yeah,
21:28.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and M-x indent-region ws too.
21:33.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: forgot to enclose macro params in parens
21:52.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: no need to forward declare it if we just move the definition up
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22:28.30 brlcad does anyone know if there's an equivalent call for sync() on win32? not finding anything of use in docs/search
22:40.55 ``Erik grep headers for -i 'flush'?
22:42.35 brlcad starting to find stuff, found what cygwin does
22:42.52 ``Erik (does windows even buffer file descriptors? hahaha)
22:43.02 brlcad or at least a proposal for dealing with it at one point, which basically involves iterating over the fixed drives and callling FlushFileBuffers
22:43.42 ``Erik coo'
22:48.18 brlcad or I could just remove our four bastard usages of sync() and replace em with fsync()
22:51.04 brlcad though a bu_sync() would still be nice to have for bu_bomb() situations
22:54.15 ``Erik uhhhhh
22:54.27 ``Erik if sync() 'fails', your os is hosed and crashes...
22:54.28 ``Erik :)
22:54.47 ``Erik or locks
22:54.57 brlcad "not my problem?" :)
22:55.43 ``Erik well, ok
22:55.45 ``Erik look at it this way
22:55.50 ``Erik void sync(void);
22:55.57 ``Erik how do you figure out if that failed? :)
22:56.22 brlcad the standard doesn't actually require sync() to do anything either
22:56.28 ``Erik { ask syncer to do it's thing; block until syncer has done it's thing. }
22:56.37 brlcad which is why i'm just going to change it all to fsync which does
22:56.45 ``Erik that's probably better
22:57.05 ``Erik on a massively multi-user system, sync() could be a brutal pig of a function call, fsync is targetted
22:58.01 ``Erik <-- tells the linux kernel on that altix to schedule sync once every 42 days to prove his point :)
22:58.40 brlcad it can be a pig, but it should still return within a few seconds at worst
22:58.57 brlcad just as can be calling the sync command
22:59.23 brlcad kermit still issues sync after almost every command he types :)
22:59.31 ``Erik on large fs's with brutal activity, I've watched sync take disturbing amounts of time
22:59.34 brlcad due to old systems not doing it for you
22:59.37 ``Erik <-- does that a lot, too
22:59.41 ``Erik oh
22:59.50 ``Erik and if you have a flakey disk, sync can take a *LONG* time
23:00.01 ``Erik like a non-responsive nfs mount or something
23:00.43 ``Erik heh, or a raid array in the process of crapping itself. :(
23:02.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: fsync the file before closing it just to be safe
23:07.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fsync(), bsd func that some older systems don't have
23:16.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: remove the sync() call. instead just fsync() the currently open geometry database file. doxygenify the comments while we're in here.
23:21.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: rework db_sync() so that it always flushs and tries fsync() if available and only sync() as last resort.
23:26.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: sync via db_sync in db_close instead of manually duplicating what is conceptually db_sync's job
23:27.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: sync via db_sync instead of fsync'ing directly.
23:28.08 brlcad i'm just working down the list
23:28.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm_old/dm-mer.c: no protection for you
23:29.43 ``Erik hm, so you got src/proc-db/pix2g.c and src/util/op-bw.c, cool
23:29.45 ``Erik :)
23:30.53 brlcad yep
23:31.17 brlcad hence the alphabetical order of the fixes ;)
23:31.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: stupid sync().. who wrote this? .. changed to db_sync()
23:33.03 brlcad bleh.. op-bw is vax-specific
23:33.23 brlcad i somehow doubt anyone has an optronics
23:34.04 brlcad hmm
23:34.23 brlcad and if they do, the sync() might actually be needed for that one, /me leaves it alone
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23:45.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO src/util/op-bw.c): op-bw had a long run but seeing as it is vax-specific, it is being marked obsolete. the sources are marked for removal at the next minor update (probably by 7.10).
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060830

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060830

00:13.21 ``Erik your mailbox will be full of complaints next month.
00:13.22 ``Erik :)
00:14.25 brlcad heh
00:42.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/Makefile.am): check for the solaris lexer library (needed for yyless() apparently) and provide LIBL accordingly for Makefile.am usage.
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01:54.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (jove.h jove_main.c jove_term.c): obliterate SYSV/SYS5 usage, instead relying on HAVE_ symbols more consistently (hopefully).
02:20.09 brlcad well that should take care of that lil thorn hopefully
02:46.05 dtidrow brlcad: does lee ever show up on here?
02:47.06 brlcad dtidrow: from time to time, but he's not much of an irc geek
02:47.30 dtidrow are you guys still looking for coders?
02:47.35 brlcad he doesn't know how to live in here, doesn't manage a session or anything
02:47.42 brlcad always
02:47.55 dtidrow and you haven't smacked him into shape yet?
02:48.02 brlcad heh
02:48.50 brlcad he might have too many pointy grey hairs to manage
02:49.45 brlcad speaking of coders.. i'm just in the middle of writing up an announcement to hire some students to finally work on the website..
02:50.09 brlcad hopefully we can take care of that problem soon finally
02:54.59 dtidrow heh - how about one fairly experienced one? ;-)
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03:14.37 brlcad hah, excellent
03:15.25 dtidrow ?
03:16.03 brlcad i mean that would be great if you meant what I think you meant ;-)
03:16.17 dtidrow ah :-)
03:16.36 dtidrow maybe... ;-)
03:16.47 brlcad i can bring it up tomorrow if you like, see where things are at
03:17.11 brlcad the usual end of year politics are prevalent this month of course
03:17.22 dtidrow heh
03:19.03 brlcad or just give lee a ring, though he'll likely dance a similar style on his end
03:21.20 dtidrow well, I thought he was going to get in touch with me after SIGGRAPH, maybe it slipped his mind or he thought the reverse
03:22.08 dtidrow I'll squirt him an email tomorrow - it's lee_at_arl..., right?
03:22.30 dtidrow or lbutler?
03:23.47 brlcad i'm sure it's slipped his mind entirely
03:24.04 brlcad lbutler or just butler
03:24.08 dtidrow he _is_ getting old, after all... ;-)
03:25.15 brlcad so "they"'re still tossing around the corporate crap eh? :)
03:27.01 dtidrow well, some of that, though it hasn't been made clear what that directive meant for 'project' computers
03:57.05 ``Erik win show 2
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20:42.06 dtidrow the silence here is deafening
21:04.29 brlcad heh
21:04.40 brlcad busy coding ;)
21:06.08 brlcad dtidrow: did you ever directly contribute code to brl-cad or just indirectly involved via relationship with muuss and company?
21:06.38 brlcad just wonder, as I don't see your name in the authors file and would want to credit you if you have
21:06.56 IriX64 busy kodying, get it right :)
21:29.58 dtidrow brlcad: just indirectly so far
21:53.54 dtidrow heh
21:54.14 dtidrow I ought to try gentoo sometime...
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23:23.20 brlcad <PROTECTED>
23:23.26 brlcad oops :)
23:24.12 dtidrow lol
23:24.14 brlcad interest in ice cream, of course
23:24.20 dtidrow heh
23:25.02 brlcad i think he's going to have a talk with the dairy farmer
23:30.56 ``Erik :o here I thought lee was straight and married, go figure
23:31.16 ``Erik "I laughed so hard, beer came out of my nose. And I don't even drink beer."
23:34.50 IriX64 ``Erik your creative side showing :P
23:43.46 ``Erik oh, sorry *zips back up*
23:44.15 IriX64 my zip drive is on the other box :)
23:47.31 dtidrow -thud!-
23:47.46 dtidrow that's us dropping into the gutter ;-)
23:54.24 IriX64 plugh <--- thats me playing cave ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060831

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060831

00:07.37 IriX64 time to bring up RedHat 6.0.
00:09.04 Twingy that reminds me
00:09.15 Twingy I need to install linux
00:09.32 ``Erik last rhat I installed by choice was 4.2
00:09.54 ``Erik :/
00:10.05 ``Erik which breed, justin? debian? gentoo?
00:10.20 ``Erik ubuntu seemed extremely developer unfreindly on the lappie alexis had
00:10.25 Twingy last redhat I installed by choice was 2.0, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 7.0, 7.1, 8.0, 9.0, RHEL 3
00:10.36 IriX64 hahaha
00:10.48 ``Erik that's more than the last
00:10.54 Twingy no no
00:10.58 Twingy I installed them all at once
00:11.01 ``Erik :o
00:11.08 IriX64 gotta find an easy way to copy files from win to redhat.
00:11.11 ``Erik um
00:11.17 ``Erik in linux... mount the windows drive...
00:11.18 ``Erik and
00:11.18 IriX64 so you got an aggregate system?
00:11.20 ``Erik copy them...
00:11.40 IriX64 doh file systems don't match.
00:11.46 ``Erik eh?
00:11.54 IriX64 think vmware.
00:12.01 ``Erik so, uh
00:12.09 ``Erik look at the disk image windows is running on
00:12.15 ``Erik and do a loopback device attach
00:12.16 ``Erik ...
00:12.27 IriX64 its the other way around
00:12.37 IriX64 redhat is the guest.
00:12.44 IriX64 whoa...
00:13.43 IriX64 last file i transferred i burnt onto a cd but that gets real expensive real fast. hold ive got an erasbel here somewhere.
00:13.51 IriX64 just a sec.
00:14.12 dtidrow cd's are expensive??????
00:15.17 dtidrow well, if you use a lot, I suppose
00:16.12 Twingy so you did install vmware like I suggested
00:16.32 IriX64 yes, beautiful, except i farked up and installed server.
00:17.00 IriX64 brb
00:21.16 ``Erik if the guest rhat has network access, you should be able to drop samba on it and talk via winderz network shares
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00:36.59 ``Erik swank, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX mentions brlcad :)
00:37.50 ``Erik ah
00:37.55 ``Erik and sean is to blame, hah
00:46.43 brlcad ahh, yeppers
00:47.10 brlcad hey, anyone got a sec to comment on a diagram?
00:49.53 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/CAD_Diagram.pdf
00:53.28 brlcad the overlaps and ratios are mostly all quite intentional/deliberate, though still a very rough stab -- needs a lot more detail me thinks mebbie, perhaps expanding the acronyms
01:09.54 Twingy throw in a couple backronyms and recursonyms for good measure.
01:16.53 Maloeran That's one elaborate and clear diagram. It's intended for managers, right? :)
01:17.34 ``Erik there're "letters", no mgr would feel comfortable with that on the screen
01:17.42 ``Erik letters go by bullets on powerpoint slides, that's it
01:30.20 brlcad Maloeran: uh, lets just say it's intended to explain how brl-cad "fits in" on the highest level
01:30.23 brlcad ;)
01:32.10 Twingy DEY TUK R' JBS!
02:10.17 Maloeran It seems rather painful to make much sense out of this, but maybe that's not the intended purpose...
02:15.43 brlcad i don't mind painful as long as sense *can* be made out of it. if people have to use a few neurons to understand it then that's fine.. if something is really confusing, then that would be a problem
02:15.59 brlcad it is a little too busy, too many heavy lines.. /me tones some of them down
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02:47.06 IriX64 irssi compiled in the virtual machine :)
02:47.33 IriX64 tempted to try brlcad.
02:54.43 IriX64 thought you were threatning me for a moment :)
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04:11.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (doxygen_structure Doxyfile):
04:11.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: New doxygen configuration file Doxyfile. The doxygen_structure file defines
04:11.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the layout of the heirarchy of the doxygen document
04:38.35 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/memalloc.c: annotate malloc entries so that we know where the allocation took place
04:41.53 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (16 files): miscelaneous changes to support doxygen
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05:49.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: added BU_FLSTR to malloc/free to help track down memory creation/leaks
05:51.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (21 files): Mostly doxygen formatting.
05:53.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Added to structure. Changed Doxyfile to put html output in subdirectory of misc instead of in my Mac's Sites directory.
05:54.51 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: added target for producing doxygen run
05:55.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/anim.c: doxygen patches
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07:24.02 Maloeran Erik, any idea of where I should or will find Lee's code to read BRL-CAD geometry? Seems simple enough, but I would rather work from the code he already wrote
07:30.37 Maloeran And I don't think the cathedral/galleon modeller ever received an email for some reason o.O
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14:41.01 ``Erik mal: I'll go ask him, uh, right now
15:27.23 Maloeran Thanks Erik, I'm supposed to do that before September 1 :}
18:39.26 brlcad i like deadlines
18:39.37 brlcad especially the *whooshing* sound as they pass by
18:42.53 dtidrow rofl
18:47.51 ``Erik meh, it's not a deadline, it's a 'milestone'
18:57.14 ``Erik alexis: context.c:141: warning: implicit declaration of function `_rtDestroyContext'
18:57.47 ``Erik putting an underscore infront of symbols is A Bad Thing(tm) on several os's
19:05.26 Maloeran Is it? It was to differentiate between functions exported in the dlopen'ed library, the underscore marked functions not meant for "public" use but for the wrapper
19:06.02 Maloeran So Erik, can I find Lee's code somewhere?
19:11.02 ``Erik mal: would putting "static" infront of the symbol be adequate? :) linkers often prefix symbols with one or two underscores and treat the number of leading underscores as a meaningful thing...
19:11.05 ``Erik he said he'd commit it
19:11.15 ``Erik we got access to the repo sorted out on our side today...
19:11.18 ``Erik I'll go prod him, brb
19:14.35 ``Erik he'll commit what he has, says he'll finish it this evening, and apologizes for how long it's taken
19:15.02 ``Erik (btw, the platform your shtuff failed on was fbsd/amd64)
19:15.52 Maloeran I just tried your autoreconf stuff here at home and it broke as well, but I think my tools are outdated
19:16.13 ``Erik automake 1.9 and autoconf 2.59 is what I write for
19:16.31 ``Erik it SHOULD work with automaek 1.6 and autoconf 2.53
19:16.47 ``Erik it should not with automake 1.4 and autoconf 2.13, much has changed since those dark days
19:17.18 Maloeran Okay I got that, it still failed though
19:18.39 Maloeran http://rafb.net/paste/results/sgQRrp53.html
19:22.12 ``Erik autoreconf -vi
19:23.03 Maloeran Ah right, thanks. I'll learn this stuff eventually.. :)
19:23.11 ``Erik <-- points at the errors from l ines 25 to 32
19:23.48 ``Erik lee is committing right now, btw
19:24.55 Maloeran Good, thanks
19:25.32 ``Erik eh, that buttmonkey used a straight makefile and hardcoded brlcad's path
19:26.26 Maloeran That's stuff I know how to work with, fine with me :)
19:27.12 brlcad i think he still doesn't know how automake/autoconf work yet really
19:29.05 brlcad i'm just wondering how many times erik will have to see autoreconf "not work by default" before you see the utility of the script :)
19:30.11 ``Erik I see the utility, it's dandy for people who have no clue what they're doing *shrug* :)
19:30.20 brlcad i've yet to see a new autotools user not hit the same half-dozen basic errors.. and they're completely stupid ones imho, usually buried deep in useless verbose output
19:31.09 brlcad even for folks that have a clue, it just hides the stupid gnu folks idiotic tendancies
19:31.18 brlcad s/tendancies/religion/
19:31.44 ValarQ ALL HAIL Bob Dobs!
19:33.52 ValarQ "thou shalt"?
19:36.42 brlcad too long to get into, i left my soap box at home
19:37.32 brlcad but a limited few gnu folks are rather opinionated (especially the autotools folks) on how thou shalt use their tools in ways that are counterproductive and unreasonable really
19:38.31 brlcad i'm apparently in the minority (with respect to their religion) of liking things to work by default and not distributing burden unnecessarily
19:39.07 ValarQ ok, i must confess i havent rolled that many autotools packages myself, only a few smaller things
19:40.32 ``Erik if it was hard to write, it should be hard to use! :D
19:40.38 ValarQ hah
19:53.57 IriX64 try working with AM_PATH_SDL not found in library.
19:54.52 ValarQ hmm
20:05.47 ``Erik alexis: do another update, g-tri.c is done and 'works'
20:06.16 ``Erik irix: in order to run aclocal, you need sdl development stuff installed.
20:21.21 Maloeran I noticed, Erik, thanks
20:22.03 IriX64 thanks Erik.
20:24.56 ``Erik yes, I am erik, stater of the obvious, purveyor of unnecessary information...
20:39.21 IriX64 pooh.... checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error C compiler cannot create executables. whats that all about ?
20:40.49 brlcad you have some bad option/compiler set
20:41.10 IriX64 heh and Erik claimed ... ;)
20:41.15 brlcad look in config.log near the end for details (like it suggests iirc)
20:41.37 IriX64 ty
20:41.40 IriX64 :)
21:02.55 IriX64 --verbose is a wordy sort. :)
21:54.44 IriX64 did she have a good trip :)
21:54.44 brlcad heh
21:55.46 ``Erik the bike, I presume? :)
21:56.40 IriX64 err i get errors loading that page.
21:56.52 brlcad "errors"?
21:57.04 IriX64 just a sec.
21:57.26 IriX64 bad Cmap/encoding.
21:57.28 Maloeran Eh no, I had the bicycle, but the rest ( clothes mostly ) went to Philadelphia before I was put in a cab to Washington Dulles to catch a plane to Montreal
21:57.38 ``Erik works fine for me
21:57.53 IriX64 fark.
21:57.53 ``Erik actually, some of the text boxes are clipped at the bottom
21:57.55 brlcad ``Erik: added CAID just for you :P
21:58.15 ``Erik electronic cad, electrical, conceive, and validation
21:58.18 ``Erik woohoo!
21:59.10 IriX64 ill worry about my farked up viewer later :)
22:00.02 brlcad the text box clipping seems to be out of my control, tried various things
22:00.18 brlcad i get a hairline white outline around them too
22:00.19 IriX64 electronic cad wasn't that movie called Tron? :)
22:03.30 brlcad ahh, comes out perfect if I don't use v4 pdf, and instead use v5
22:04.07 IriX64 at least 1.
22:04.10 IriX64 :)
22:04.17 Maloeran Seems perfect in xpdf 3.0
22:04.50 brlcad just uploaded the v5 now, does that render well?
22:05.18 Maloeran Ouch, no transparency at all now in xpdf
22:05.32 Maloeran Unless that is the intended effect
22:05.43 brlcad hmm.. what do you mean?
22:05.58 ``Erik looks good on mine
22:07.06 brlcad should look like this: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Industry_Diagram.png
22:07.12 Maloeran http://www.rayforce.net/pdfold.png http://www.rayforce.net/pdfnew.png
22:07.57 brlcad heh, eww
22:08.21 brlcad that's some pretty harsh line rendering too even on the good one
22:10.07 brlcad interesting.. it got the "ornamentation" on the corners right in the new one, but gets it wrong in the old one
22:10.08 Maloeran Yes, it could use some anti-aliasing
22:10.10 IriX64 ill figure out my viewer later (sigh)
22:18.21 IriX64 hah comparing floating point with == or != is unsafe <=== so get a condom ;)
22:20.24 IriX64 wrapper takes on whole new meaning. :)
22:21.49 IriX64 smokity break, back later.
22:29.57 brlcad heh
22:30.40 brlcad B
22:52.22 *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:52.22 *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
23:13.07 IriX64 geek code (one language i'm weak in)
23:13.10 IriX64 :)
23:13.39 IriX64 shouldn't it be geec :)
23:14.38 IriX64 +?
23:15.05 IriX64 ratz those aren't the right operators in gee c are they? :)
23:15.58 IriX64 reboot hopefully see you soon.
23:17.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (39 files): Doxygen comments
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060901

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060901

01:12.50 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca)
03:08.32 IriX64 ``Erik thanks for saying c2 instead of c4, was worried for a minute ;)
03:10.35 IriX64 btw that was a long minute, when did you say that yesterday? :)
03:11.35 IriX64 tap,tap,tap distinctly hollow, who has that stuff? :)
03:12.01 IriX64 got some filesys stuff to do back l8r.
05:12.35 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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16:44.41 brlcad heh, incredible.. http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/
16:44.59 brlcad cost about 1.5k for each of the 8 real turbine engines, 2 years to build it
16:45.59 clock_ brlcad: turbine engine just for 1500 USD?
16:46.29 dtidrow microturbines
16:46.34 clock_ ah
16:46.57 dtidrow looks like a 1/12 scale model or so
16:48.01 brlcad yeah, roughly
16:48.23 brlcad shame to dump that much into a hobby to crash and burn it :)
16:48.49 clock_ brlcad: was it built just for the crash?
16:48.58 brlcad heh, no
16:49.07 brlcad did you watch the videos?
16:49.57 clock_ brlcad: I watched just the crash
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17:15.21 cadguy got the new doxygen stuff online. Only libbu fully converted to the new format so far.
17:19.36 dtidrow :-)
17:20.28 brlcad hmm, hung the first time, but looks good now
17:21.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Doxyfile: use 'BRL-CAD' for the project name
17:23.53 cadguy Note that ftp.brlcad.net isn't connected
17:24.22 brlcad ahh, that'd do it
17:24.45 cadguy Working on libbn right now
17:24.52 cadguy Got vmath, working on bn.h
17:31.50 brlcad the mirroring can be set up to go whichever way it makes sense to go, even bidirectional -- but then deleting files is a pita
17:33.17 brlcad right now it goes from sf to ftp mainly just from a backup perspective -- i had been using a script that just uploads to both for the time being
17:34.45 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
17:35.34 brlcad since we cant go ftp -> sf until a quota justification can be made (which we don't have enough reason for now), I'll just leave it as sf -> ftp
17:51.43 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
18:14.58 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca)
18:18.45 IriX64 ValarQ: you sound like someone who's interested in what I call tweaking. :) That's why the screen shots.
18:19.56 IriX64 Hah. Steve Miller ---> "Really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree."
18:20.19 IriX64 whoa. thats not directed at anybody.
18:24.20 IriX64 ValarQ: feel free to show those to anybody who expresses an interest. :)
18:25.33 IriX64 and a multitude of key clicks is heard as they churn out their code :)
18:26.02 IriX64 don't mind me, im in a good mood.
18:26.19 IriX64 vax instruction set is complete.
18:30.40 brlcad get the simh vax running yet?
18:31.01 IriX64 haha no its in vmware.
18:31.13 IriX64 :)
18:31.27 brlcad vmware doesn't have a vax simulator
18:31.37 IriX64 hehe my system does.
18:31.49 brlcad oookay
18:32.05 IriX64 starting a brlcad build for it now....
18:33.41 IriX64 vax-dec-ultrix lets tango.
18:34.48 brlcad ah, not a vax sim, but perhaps a vax cross-compilation
18:34.53 brlcad quite a difference
18:35.10 IriX64 shoot me i'm literatly challenged :)
18:41.27 brlcad if it were only that easy :)
18:45.22 IriX64 use your sidearm :)
18:45.40 IriX64 .................................................................... did i get you?:)
18:51.33 brlcad huh?
18:51.57 IriX64 poor attempt at virtual bullets :)
18:52.06 brlcad ah
18:52.24 dtidrow drat
18:52.33 IriX64 steppenwolf, all right.
18:52.40 IriX64 drat?
18:54.39 dtidrow was trying to /msg lee, and his client just disconnected
18:55.01 IriX64 whats /msg?
18:55.09 IriX64 :)
18:55.20 dtidrow private message in irc
18:55.43 IriX64 i click the dcc chat icon, much easier.
18:55.49 dtidrow essentially irc's version of IM
18:55.51 dtidrow heh
18:56.01 dtidrow wimp ;-)
18:56.04 IriX64 don't have to keep typing /msg
18:56.07 IriX64 :)
18:56.19 IriX64 yah weemp:)
18:56.53 ValarQ IriX64: what what?
18:57.18 IriX64 we of the two finger school try to keep typing to a minimum.:)
18:57.31 IriX64 what weemp?
18:57.36 IriX64 weenie wimp :)
18:58.02 ValarQ IriX64: you're in a school for two fingers?
18:58.08 dtidrow rofl
18:58.12 IriX64 no no i graduated :)
18:58.34 ValarQ ok...
18:58.37 dtidrow if you only have two fingers, how do you grab the mouse? ;-)
18:58.53 IriX64 palm pilot style. :)
18:59.34 ValarQ with your tongue?
19:00.05 IriX64 is that an offer? (and if it is i hope you're female) ;)
19:01.29 IriX64 spontaniety sometimes lacks decourm (sigh sorry).
19:01.38 ValarQ keep hoping
19:02.01 IriX64 meaning youll have the gender change operation for me? :)
19:02.36 IriX64 CCR yeahhhhhhhhh.
19:03.22 IriX64 wait'll i put my mind back in, it's out being washed right now.
19:04.03 IriX64 "you can ponder perputal motion, hitch your mind on a crystal day...."
19:05.17 brlcad IriX64: just type /query username
19:05.33 brlcad it should open a session similar to dcc but without the overhead and firewall requirements
19:06.09 IriX64 opened it.
19:06.25 IriX64 i can do that with a mouse click to though.
19:06.34 brlcad most clients have that
19:06.51 IriX64 true.
19:06.51 brlcad still, a query is far better than dcc chat
19:06.58 brlcad same end result
19:07.08 IriX64 meaning dcc does'nt always connect?
19:07.15 IriX64 doesn't too.
19:07.41 brlcad dcc has extra overhead and connection associated, have to make sure you can directly form a connection on both ends
19:08.04 brlcad which requires firewalls to be more lenient, instead of query where you just talk through the irc network like usual
19:08.18 IriX64 should know that this isn't school :)
19:08.43 brlcad school?
19:09.00 IriX64 dcc needs an open port query uses the currently open port thats all.
19:09.26 brlcad heh, not quite
19:09.36 IriX64 splain then lucy :)
19:11.18 brlcad i just did.. but even easier is to just refer: http://www.kvirc.de/docu/doc_dcc_connection.html
19:12.05 brlcad that port has to be negotiated with the network, and isn't the same one that's outbound for the irc network already
19:13.12 brlcad so if you're running a firewall, that's one extra port that both ends minimally need to allow and even without that, there's still the negotiation in general.. why bother when a session can be opened up as-is with a query with NO effort
19:13.36 brlcad and i don't mean just no user effort.. no network/implementation/network effort
19:14.29 IriX64 agreed but i miss the ease of file transfering.
19:14.29 brlcad i couldn't care less what you do, but I know I will personally rarely ever respond to a dcc chat .. there's just no point
19:14.41 brlcad dcc file transfer isn't dcc chat -- you said chat
19:15.16 IriX64 hehe its still dcc, but chat i rarely have need of either the dcc variety or the query variety.
19:15.49 IriX64 not many people do that to me and i rarely take the intiative.
19:15.59 brlcad still, the problems you have with dcc file transfer are exemplary in itself
19:16.24 IriX64 feeling loqacious are you?
19:16.37 IriX64 loquacious too.
19:16.37 brlcad ~dict loqactious
19:16.57 brlcad ~dict loquacious
19:17.13 brlcad gassy.. hmm..
19:17.22 IriX64 how sweet a friendly bot.:)
19:18.07 IriX64 heh gregarious (brings up mr. Rogers)
19:18.25 IriX64 what a neighbourhood.
19:20.18 Maloeran Use a mouse to irc? What blasphemy
19:20.47 IriX64 we'll call it irmousing.
19:21.29 IriX64 bbiab smokity break.
20:23.20 *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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21:25.13 IriX64 hah 1hr 22minutes for vaxcad to compile.
21:26.04 IriX64 wonder if celine dionne singing had any effect on compile time? :)
21:26.39 IriX64 a happy compiler produces good code, my compiler likes music so....
21:28.12 IriX64 simh eh?
21:28.49 IriX64 have around here on 8" disk somewhere a z80 emulator.
21:30.07 IriX64 heh prefer the trout. it's edible :)
21:30.31 IriX64 gave mine away.
21:30.55 IriX64 little 3 board computer system s100 buss based.
21:31.04 IriX64 64k ram
21:31.51 IriX64 built a card punch and paper tape punch replacement out of it.
21:32.23 IriX64 all hand rolled asm for the z80.
21:32.52 IriX64 i'll stop reminicing now:)
21:33.23 IriX64 the problem with aging is that which is there to remember grows.
21:34.23 IriX64 vms pfffttt this ones for ultrix (dec style)
21:34.51 IriX64 say does vms have an xserver?
21:35.11 IriX64 that would be too crazy, cross compile for vms.
21:35.15 dtidrow think it did near the end
21:35.22 IriX64 end?
21:35.29 dtidrow of DEC
21:35.33 IriX64 still several around.
21:35.36 IriX64 oh i c
21:35.42 IriX64 hp owns them now.
21:35.51 dtidrow via Compaq
21:35.59 IriX64 no compaq sold out
21:36.42 IriX64 hahahahah blahhhhhhhh.:)
21:36.43 dtidrow IIRC, Compaq bought DEC, then HP absorbed them
21:37.13 IriX64 thought hp bought the dec division and compaq went its way.
21:37.36 IriX64 how you do you feel maloeran?
21:37.41 dtidrow nope - if you buy a 'Compaq', you're realy buying from HP
21:38.13 IriX64 young too.
21:38.13 IriX64 good dtidrow now i can sleep nights.
21:38.17 dtidrow don't you remember the HP-Compaq merger?
21:38.26 dtidrow happened back in the late '90s
21:38.28 IriX64 actually i don't
21:38.34 Maloeran It's just peculiar to hear people talk of these days I have never known, although I sometimes wish I did
21:39.12 IriX64 if you need help in computer trivial pusuit, call maloeran.
21:39.38 dtidrow yeah - I'm dating myself when I mention that I actually took some courses at a local DEC office
21:39.50 IriX64 now in basic 10 goto 10 does what?
21:40.12 dtidrow ewww, basic... :-\
21:40.28 dtidrow how old?
21:40.33 IriX64 at 80 you'r qualified to say you *are dirt.
21:40.43 dtidrow heh
21:40.51 IriX64 50 qualifies as older than dirt.
21:40.58 dtidrow heh
21:41.11 IriX64 so now the astute student knows i am between 50 and 80.
21:42.02 dtidrow ah, my mistake - it was 2002 that HP absorbed Compaq
21:42.04 IriX64 heh long as we're trivial pursuiting it, "Mabel, black label"
21:44.25 dtidrow have they quit making that stuff?
21:44.35 IriX64 my compiler sings, you can hear the bits shifting and rotating:)
21:44.43 dtidrow lol
21:44.50 IriX64 what stuff 8" drives?
21:45.33 dtidrow ah, yes - the only place that I ever encountered 8" disks was the 'boot
21:45.44 dtidrow boot drive for a 11/785
21:46.10 dtidrow iirc, it held the microcode for the cpu
21:46.14 IriX64 they were in use by dec long before the 785.
21:46.30 IriX64 diags too
21:46.39 dtidrow I'm sure, but that was the only place I ever came into contact with them
21:47.07 IriX64 did they do the job?
21:47.44 dtidrow until the floppy wore out :-)
21:50.01 IriX64 how to merge two databases in one easy step:)
21:51.11 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:51.45 IriX64 awfull slow though
21:52.04 IriX64 ahh there its visible now slick.
21:55.39 IriX64 Twingy, you get that hole punched ;)
21:56.35 IriX64 oh my a head on with havoc.
21:57.00 IriX64 hahaha havocs running away from the cray.
21:57.14 IriX64 ill stop rambling now. sigh i do go on.
21:58.52 Twingy hole?
21:59.55 IriX64 think heat.
23:25.02 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
23:27.00 IriX64 oh boy toasted tomatoe sandwhich with mayo.. yum
23:29.20 IriX64 dtidrow: you worked for DEC?
23:35.31 IriX64 No project too simple to make too complex. Quite the religion SWPadnos
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060902

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060902

01:46.27 IriX64 just put the finishing touches on another photoshop image, wanna see ;)
01:48.58 IriX64 bah nobody appreciates my artwork :)
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14:02.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (8 files): Doxygen comments
14:05.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Doxygen updates for libbn
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21:51.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: go ahead and (re)quell the warning about not being able to determine bold mode
21:51.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Linux: add a section about ubuntu dependencies
23:13.50 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca)
23:45.10 IriX64 defeat at the hands of software is ignomious.
23:47.05 Maloeran Software can be tricky at chess, better challenge it to a game of badminton
23:47.41 IriX64 which byte is the bird?
23:47.58 IriX64 ahhhh a whole flock of them came :)
23:57.06 IriX64 now they're just flapping around and rotating :)
23:58.26 IriX64 when are you guys and gals going to put up an ftp server?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060903

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060903

00:04.09 IriX64 mines up but you'll never get to it, i'm behind a router.
01:31.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (dxf-g.c dxf-g.1): Added support for SPLINE entities
01:50.56 brlcad yay, splines
01:53.56 IriX64 spliffs too? ;)
01:56.58 Twingy I used a spline once
02:03.23 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:03.37 IriX64 short trip?
02:26.49 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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02:36.46 Twingy to your moms house, yea
03:00.00 IriX64 hahaha my sister's better looking.
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09:39.20 b0ef it would be nice (and correct) if nurb.h was named nurbs.h;)
09:48.52 clock_ non uniform rational b-something splines
11:22.47 b0ef eh, no
11:23.11 b0ef clock_: it's non uniform rational basis splines
14:02.10 brlcad b0ef: that it would
14:03.01 brlcad perhaps at the next minor update
14:13.21 ``Erik what happened to the monthly cycle? O.o
14:16.31 brlcad it's still on
14:16.54 brlcad but next update is patch update, not minor
14:17.06 brlcad which will be like today or tomorrow
14:27.04 Maloeran Eh. How are your balls doing, Erik? :)
14:27.44 ``Erik uhmmmmm, if you mean the metaball implementation, I haven't touched them lately
14:28.21 brlcad heh
14:28.28 ``Erik if you don't, I'm backing away now...
14:28.34 brlcad but the others he has, of course
14:29.18 Maloeran Eheh, I was wondering about the metaballs of course, seems like a tricky problem to get decent performance
14:30.27 ``Erik I did a little performance oriented effort, but most of the work is wiring into mged correctly, it'd seem
14:33.30 ``Erik once it all works, I'll look into making it fast :)
14:34.02 Maloeran I was wondering, is the acceleration structure built for a particular treshold point or you can smoothly change that?
14:34.34 ``Erik there is no acceleration structure.
14:35.00 Maloeran I see, okay
14:35.19 ``Erik at the moment, it does a fairly coarse walk down the ray, once it changes sign, it begins doing a crude binary search until the fine resolution is met
14:35.44 ``Erik sorta
14:38.42 ``Erik but I need to get the primitive editing capability completed, some crap like the tesselation capability in, etc... before I worry about that stuff
14:39.09 Maloeran How do you expect not to miss some hits near the edge of a ball? Unless I misunderstood how you do it
14:39.18 ``Erik oh, I miss 'em
14:39.30 Maloeran Oh :), makes sense then
14:39.41 ``Erik I just hope that my coarse step is small enough so it's not really visible
14:40.01 ``Erik it LOOKS ok to my naked eye *shrug* :)
14:40.02 Maloeran Now, that is slow
14:40.16 brlcad yeah, crazy newtonian walking :P
14:40.20 ``Erik surprisingly, not too terribly slow
14:40.39 ``Erik within an order of magnitude of a straight sphere
14:40.52 ``Erik for a single control point metaball (which produces.. a straight sphere)
14:41.07 ``Erik and the speed is linear with regard tot he number of control points
14:42.03 Maloeran I dreamed of that problem last night ( don't ask why, I'm weird like that ) ; I think I got some ideas for acceleration structure for large numbers of balls, though I'm sure you do as well
14:42.16 ``Erik well, it depends on the field accuracy and formula
14:42.37 ``Erik a common one is to use an approximation formula so you can generate bounding sphere heirarchies
14:43.16 ``Erik <-- not there, yet... some people want to use the primitive yesterday, so I gotta get the primitive editing abilities finished first
14:43.25 ``Erik and they can throw big hardware at it and wait a bit :)
14:43.30 Maloeran *nods* Let's talk about it later then
15:14.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (22 files): Doxygen updates
15:15.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (font.c list.c marker.c msr.c): Doxygen updates
15:17.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (bn.h bu.h vmath.h): Doxygen updates
15:17.59 Maloeran Seems I know where to find good examples of the desired Doxygen format now
15:18.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: Doxygen updates
15:18.38 brlcad he's been on a binge lately
15:18.46 brlcad probably after talking to you
15:20.06 brlcad heh, barely a single commit for like 6 months and then a slew of these
15:20.20 brlcad the extra doxygen organization is pretty cool though, I must say
15:20.32 Maloeran I'm not familiar with the "on a binge" expression, can you express the same idea in other words?
15:20.42 brlcad ~dict binge
15:21.19 Maloeran I read that, it just didn't seem excessively clear
15:21.24 brlcad ahh
15:21.35 brlcad it's just doing something "excessive"
15:21.42 Maloeran Right, thanks
15:21.46 brlcad like not commiting hardly at all in a year
15:21.59 brlcad and now suddenly committing a lot in the span of a week
15:22.14 brlcad then he'll probably be back to no more coding soon enouch ;)
15:23.13 Maloeran :) He also wrote code to ease extracting BRL-CAD geometry for me
15:28.51 brlcad that's code already written ;)
15:28.58 ``Erik binge&purge
15:29.07 ``Erik he copied and gutted code, he didn't really write anything :)
15:29.16 brlcad just pulling from the 50+ examples in the converters/ray-tracers/examples, etc ;)
15:29.18 ``Erik g-stl.c I'd imagine
15:30.12 brlcad though nice to "trim it out" of course
15:30.28 Maloeran Aw, don't try to ruin my illusions of a both zealous and competent manager :)
15:30.41 brlcad i'm baffled why someone hasn't made the standard "convert from implicit to poly" into a function yet
15:30.56 brlcad there's like 10 converters that do the exact same code
15:31.06 ``Erik I mentioned it, he said it was all already written, just copy and edit
15:31.06 ``Erik ...
15:31.42 brlcad exposed?
15:31.57 ``Erik opposed to static
15:32.03 brlcad the calls are exposed.. the glue function just doesn't exist
15:32.14 brlcad what's static that you need?
15:32.23 brlcad s/need/use/
15:32.39 Maloeran The chunks of BRL-CAD I read were fairly good code, but I'm clearly missing most of the big picture
15:34.15 ``Erik erm, nothing to my knowledge, I just meant that I should be able to grab one function on a tree and get a tree of polygon crap and the info I might need in the structs *shrug* :)
15:35.10 brlcad you can go from nmg to triangle with just one cal
15:35.45 brlcad but it's just odd that you can't go from code to triangle or even node to nmg -- all the converters do the same walk_tree
15:36.11 brlcad Maloeran: most of the code is actually relatively exceptionally well given it's size
15:36.54 Maloeran Quite true brlcad, I was surprised
15:36.56 brlcad it's just "given it's size", you *will* find loads of feature creep and a need for refactoring where it hasn't yet happened
15:37.14 ``Erik and archaic ways of doing things and syntax
15:37.32 brlcad and the "oh, this tool does what I need" .. copy, edit, done
15:37.45 brlcad sans refactoring into a function/library call
15:37.51 Maloeran Yes, I read code that could break nicely on 64 bits when accessing over 4gb... Simple flaws, such as conversions between pointers and int
15:38.34 ``Erik hrmmm, on most of the 64b arch's we deal with, int is 8byte, same as pointer, iirc
15:38.40 ``Erik amd64 and ia64 are "weird"
15:39.02 Maloeran Hence why ptrdiff_t and intptr_t exist
15:39.35 Maloeran On amd64 on windows, even long is 32 bits ( or it would break backwards compatibility in their headers )
15:42.08 ``Erik hum, irix/r12k with -64 shows int as 32 and long as 64, funky, I thought both were 64b
15:42.14 brlcad yeah, there's a general lack of std types since most of the code well predates stdint and family
15:42.59 Maloeran *nods* They couldn't really do better back then, and their assumptions on data types made sense
15:47.40 brlcad it would be nice to assume stdint/stddef availability, that would take care of some of the issues
15:47.54 brlcad though machine.h still needs to be decommisioned before that could happen
15:48.35 brlcad and I don't think they were c89, so it'd require a jump to c99 iirc too
15:48.46 brlcad and that's a different ball of wax altogether
15:49.48 brlcad and in the big scheme of things, just not nearly as important as many other things that need to be worked on
15:52.59 Maloeran Right, it will be required at some point to handle big datasets
15:54.35 brlcad well it does handle big datasets now, at least in the ray-tracer and db layer
15:54.46 brlcad just maybe not on amd64 on windows
15:55.09 brlcad and maybe not for a particular tool or few
15:55.35 brlcad that's the problem with large codebases.. you can almost always find an exception that doesn't "comply" ;)
16:02.11 IriX64 the c2, a true 128 bit machine :)
16:02.48 Maloeran 128 bits memory addressing?
16:02.56 IriX64 cpu
16:03.29 IriX64 thats for spewing nonsense :)
16:04.48 IriX64 whats this? building 64-bit was requested but the build seems to be non 64bit.
16:05.41 IriX64 what do you care what its running on eh?
16:05.57 IriX64 let me cross it will you. :)
16:06.22 IriX64 want to use your 64 bit code... wait i see the problem.
16:06.37 IriX64 you need to know don't you?
16:06.59 IriX64 ill cross it from the generic code.
16:07.15 IriX64 heh thanks for the compliment.
16:07.50 Maloeran Seriously, what are you babbling about? :)
16:08.04 IriX64 --ignore the machine specific 64 bit code.
16:08.19 IriX64 im trying to cross compoile BRLCAD.
16:08.24 IriX64 compile too.
16:08.44 Maloeran Ah, right
16:09.15 IriX64 when my c2 comes in ill be able to runtime test this thing ;)
16:10.06 brlcad babbling is quite appropriate.. I sometimes have NO idea what it is you go on about, incoherent statements
16:10.22 brlcad you really shouldn't
16:10.29 brlcad it does get distracting/annoying
16:10.37 IriX64 you have to read from top left at an angle to bottom right :)
16:10.58 brlcad see, just what the hell does that mean? :)
16:11.48 IriX64 never read codes and secert writings, im just making my brand of humor jokes hoping someone will catch them.
16:12.26 brlcad the jokes are a bit too think sometimes I think, or out of context
16:12.48 IriX64 if im serious about something ill preface it with seriously.... (probably never happen)
16:12.49 ``Erik sorry, none of us smoke pot, especially not in the quantities required to get your brand of humor ;)
16:13.00 IriX64 biggest doobies you've ever seen :)
16:13.30 IriX64 and its early.
16:13.53 IriX64 wine tipped? Try wine dipped. :)
16:15.05 IriX64 seriously... im trying out my CFLAGS='-DWITHOUTCYGWIN' flag, see if you can figure out what it's supposed to do.
16:15.23 brlcad again another example of a statement that just doesn't compile .. i've never heard of wine tipped doobies if that's what you meant, so wine dipped doobie means nothing.. :)
16:15.32 IriX64 :)
16:16.05 Maloeran Tried -mno-cygwin? You should never need a define for that
16:16.34 IriX64 that doesn't exist (yet but it might, thanks)
16:17.04 IriX64 -m is taken tho theres a lot already there.
16:17.45 brlcad cross-compilation for different bit lengths won't likely work very well fwiw
16:17.55 IriX64 maybe i erred, you saying your compiler supports -mno-cygwin?
16:18.17 brlcad gcc under cygwin should support that option
16:18.21 IriX64 brlcad: true attack from generic code wherever possible.
16:18.58 IriX64 brlcad now whos being obtusde.
16:19.04 IriX64 obtuse too.
16:19.48 brlcad er, still you -- what do you mean?
16:20.01 IriX64 if these binaries crash on my system ill be ever so happy.
16:20.17 IriX64 explain -mno-cygwin.
16:21.08 brlcad it's just a compiler option, see http://www.delorie.com/howto/cygwin/mno-cygwin-howto.html
16:21.45 brlcad basically, drops you down to just the core, i.e. what's in mingw
16:22.18 IriX64 brlcad: i don't give a *shit about windows binaries.
16:23.11 IriX64 ill visit windoze at a later date.
16:24.38 brlcad has less to do with windows binaries than it does to do with that compiler in that environment
16:24.56 IriX64 i like my approach better.
16:25.50 IriX64 $ CFLAGS='-DWITHOUTCYGWIN' ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --wi
16:25.50 IriX64 th-math --enable-optimizations --disable-shared --prefix=/usr/craycad --host=c2
16:25.50 IriX64 -cray-unicos
16:26.02 IriX64 will taht configure and compile?
16:27.13 IriX64 i know, i know, i was told about pasting, mea culpa..
16:27.21 brlcad it probably will, but it's not going to give you a cross-compiled binary
16:27.28 IriX64 bets?
16:28.16 brlcad heh, not one that'll work
16:28.30 IriX64 a bet that will work? :)
16:29.08 IriX64 you're right i'll get *many binaries, not just one ;)
16:29.17 brlcad machine.h is hard-coded for detected compilation environments, cross-compiling isn't going to provide all the right flags it needs
16:29.51 brlcad ergo *crash* is what you're going to get if it's not cross-compiled for a platform with matching specs
16:30.29 brlcad specs being bit depths, byte orders, byte offsets, etc
16:30.41 IriX64 my compiler supports different machines, i run configure and parse it on the fly to configure my compilers and linkers accordingly.
16:30.53 brlcad not to mention the configure checks for sanity on the bit depths (which is what you ran into earlier)
16:31.08 IriX64 thats why i like a clean generic code line whereever possible.
16:31.52 ``Erik stave it off, 1 2 3, now you can count to three...
16:31.58 brlcad well, this is optimized and mostly pretty compiler generic code, but that doesn't mean it'll cross-compile and work ;)
16:32.33 IriX64 traditional cross compile you're right you guys bail at a simple check of setpgrp. :)
16:32.59 IriX64 my way it does produce appropriate code.
16:33.12 brlcad and you've verified this how?
16:33.13 IriX64 people coming in ill be back in 15.
16:33.44 brlcad i'm betting "appropriate" means that the compile simply didn't fail for you
16:34.02 brlcad which is far from appropriate, and even farther from functional on that cross-compile platform
16:34.06 Twingy along with bert n' ernie
16:34.20 ``Erik sean, didja get a build on that vax11/780 simh image?
16:35.10 Twingy 21.1 jigavgr's
16:35.10 brlcad i did, barley, but that was years ago.. not recent
16:35.28 ``Erik ah, just recently you were installing netbsd on a simh image, I thought
16:37.16 brlcad no no.. i was saying it'd be cool because I did install netbsd pretty easily a couple years ago
16:37.45 ``Erik ah
16:37.54 brlcad the compile gave a bit of a hassle then, but the autotools stuff wasn't all sorted out back then
16:37.56 ``Erik <-- was too busy playing with lisp on a pdp1
16:38.52 brlcad hmm.. i could toss up simh into parallels here.. that would save some of the setup time i had to do on os x for it last time
16:39.31 ``Erik hm, attaching all the devices and stuff?
16:40.36 brlcad well that and just getting simh to compile wasn't clean either
16:41.10 brlcad had to write some code to get it to compile, and I don't recall all the details ..
16:41.34 brlcad looks like there was a guy that provided a slew of pdp11 and vax bug fixes this summer.. swett
16:42.03 ``Erik http://www.homestarrunner.com/disk4of12.html
16:42.23 ``Erik hrm, I was doing it on fbsd, so "make install" was all I had to do
16:43.46 IriX64 may i give you a superficial look at project cassandra? this'll take a moment to type in.
16:46.11 brlcad heh
16:46.21 IriX64 when configure runs i trap the checks and based on either the build switch or the hhost switc (not both) i either provide the build environmnment as accuratly as possible providing things that are needed if i have them or providing a generic if i dont (if i have neither im dead ) and for the host i try to provide as nearly as possible what is requried to actually cross-compile for that machine in much the same way, the results are stored
16:46.44 IriX64 and the compiler reads that file in so it and the linker knows what ist doing.
16:46.53 IriX64 ipc at its best.
16:47.38 brlcad (on freebsd)
16:47.56 brlcad *trying to ignore the peasant distraction
16:48.02 Twingy remember the sparc ipc's those things were crap
16:48.59 IriX64 peasants quest????
16:49.24 IriX64 err twingy? define ipc.
16:50.10 IriX64 my ipc is inter-process communication (cheap variety)
17:27.14 ValarQ STM!
17:27.43 ValarQ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory
17:31.09 ``Erik "chad vader", awesome
17:31.19 ``Erik http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wGR4-SeuJ0
18:47.53 brlcad heh pretty funny
18:48.02 brlcad ahh, yes, stdint is c99
18:48.13 brlcad tough nuggies
19:14.40 IriX64 shouldn't that be noogies :)
19:25.09 brlcad in some contexts
19:27.13 ``Erik heh, klingons?
19:27.20 IriX64 for(i=0;i<strlen(string);i++){if((string[i]) == 'x');puts("End of the world has been found\n");}
19:27.38 IriX64 err -;
19:28.37 ``Erik (for-each (lambda (x) (if (= 'x' x) (display "End of world"))) (string-chars string))
19:28.38 ``Erik ptbtbbtt
19:28.41 IriX64 can use *string+i too
19:29.13 IriX64 thought we spoke c here not lisp :)
19:29.21 ``Erik that would be scheme, not lisp
19:29.28 IriX64 my mistake
19:29.42 IriX64 boot me this deserves a kick but not the ban.
19:30.05 ``Erik /kill IriX64 learn your languages
19:30.14 IriX64 heh
19:30.23 IriX64 im language challenged.
19:30.29 ``Erik no? k: perhaps? or possibly g:?
19:30.42 IriX64 y rather thann x.
19:31.01 IriX64 back to klingonese.
19:33.27 IriX64 ``Erik you thought the end of world thing is what i was trying to do?
19:33.47 IriX64 im searching for x.
19:33.54 IriX64 in a string.
19:34.55 IriX64 lst line should read return(printf("end of world not found\n"));
19:34.59 IriX64 last too.
19:35.57 brlcad and stating
19:36.01 brlcad the obvious about
19:36.12 IriX64 that means what?
19:36.15 brlcad one line of code with 8 lines of explanation
19:36.31 ``Erik char *s = string; while(*s++)if(*s=='x')printf("end world here");
19:36.36 ``Erik learn pointers :D
19:36.59 IriX64 you forgot the alloca :)
19:37.13 ``Erik why? I don't want to duplicate the string o.O
19:37.35 IriX64 allocation on initialization then ?
19:38.03 IriX64 char * mystring="end of world here \0";
19:38.42 ``Erik sure
19:38.48 ``Erik or argv[1] for all I care
19:38.49 ``Erik :D
19:38.56 IriX64 few people realize mystring should be freed.
19:39.19 ``Erik uh, char *blah="cow"; free(blah); should not compile.
19:39.30 IriX64 bets?
19:39.50 ``Erik the string will be retained in bss, which should not have any allocation/deallocation inside of main
19:40.05 brlcad er, it'll compile
19:40.10 ``Erik hrm, it compiled on my mac
19:40.20 ``Erik but, naturally, fails horribly when ran
19:40.27 brlcad yeah, can't free a static
19:40.38 IriX64 you didnt say static.
19:41.10 IriX64 autoallocas *should be freed.
19:41.16 brlcad s/static/string literal/
19:41.23 brlcad same difference
19:41.23 ``Erik that you explained it as a "string" says it's bss, resides in static program data space
19:41.27 IriX64 except for alloca apil foolf running hard.....
19:41.41 IriX64 april too. :)
19:41.47 ``Erik and should NOT have any memory ops happen on it inside of main()
19:42.03 IriX64 its the return ``Erik
19:42.17 IriX64 a lot of times the system knows what its doing.
19:43.23 IriX64 cow ``Erik :)
19:43.29 IriX64 ?
19:43.57 ``Erik copy on write is unrelated
19:44.14 IriX64 thought that was ValarQ's specialty she drew such a pretty one.
19:44.58 ``Erik aaannndddd back out to left field.
19:45.06 IriX64 right!!!!!!!
19:45.22 IriX64 blargh it smoke break time.
21:21.24 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060904

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060904

01:35.44 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
01:46.51 IriX64 make -i
01:46.59 IriX64 whoa.
02:18.05 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/number.c: doxygen updates
02:19.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/number.c: Since it wasn't used anywhere, it seemed time for it to go to the attic
02:23.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/Makefile.am: Removed number.c
02:44.06 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
02:44.48 IriX64 just had a nasty thought, is there some way for me to know when a commit is about to happen so i dont clutter the channel with my ramblings?
02:50.57 IriX64 hah desire` desire` anybody know it?
03:09.03 brlcad best to just not "clutter the channel" regardless ..
03:09.24 IriX64 so how do we chat and kibitz? :)
03:25.02 Twingy IriX64, if it's any consolation, I woulda banned your ass months ago :)
03:25.08 IriX64 thenk you sir.
03:26.29 Twingy Instead of trying so hard to get on sean's good side, do something useful or stop wasting our time...
03:26.55 IriX64 sean *has a good side ?:)
03:28.29 Twingy you will find I have little compassion for lackey's
03:29.06 IriX64 how about brass? :P
03:32.23 Twingy there's always one really annoying person in 5 of the 7 irc channels I hang out on
03:33.03 Twingy then there's the guy that beats the drum of his own percussion section
03:33.32 Twingy and back to coding on gcam, toodles
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03:51.55 brlcad heh
03:55.19 Twingy not explicitly you weren't
04:00.35 brlcad huh?
04:00.51 brlcad you? me? I wasn't explicitly doing anything afaik
04:02.11 brlcad ooh, i get it .. nah, I meant that *he* as in irix guy wasn't "trying" much of anything
04:02.46 brlcad you sait he was trying to get on my good side, I don't think he tries anything except maybe to get attention
04:03.09 brlcad and just happens to be frickin' bizzare
04:43.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (noise.c plane.c plot3.c poly.c qmath.c rand.c): Doxygen updates
04:44.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: Doxygen updates
05:13.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/const.c: Deleted gratuitous extra open-brace after doxygen comment
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12:59.43 ``Erik damn there was a lot of clutter in the backlog... why do I even bother reading those? :)
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16:00.32 brlcad ``Erik: heh
16:01.06 brlcad what the hell are you doing up at 9am? needed another shot to put yourself back to sleep? :)
16:10.50 ``Erik heh, I'm always awake by nine, usually by 7... and I haven't had liquor in days o.O
16:11.20 ``Erik now, I did have a beer last night (just one), so I can't make the claim that I haven't had alcohol in days, but *shrug*
16:19.38 brlcad hmm i actually haven't had liquor since siggraph... *gasp*
16:19.43 Maloeran Nice, Erik :)
16:20.34 brlcad getting ready for the competition has kept me dry...
16:21.19 Maloeran Out of curiosity, are you going to that raytracing conference in 2 weeks, brlcad? Or is it only Lee, Erik and myself?
16:23.49 Maloeran The program sure is not too inspiring
16:25.16 brlcad i'm going
16:25.38 brlcad probably have to register at the last moment though
16:25.51 Maloeran I haven't registered myself yet either
16:26.20 brlcad it's a ieee, can't expect too much ;)
16:26.52 Maloeran There doesn't seem to be anything new in the program, it's all covered by a dozen papers all over the place o.O
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17:46.51 brlcad woo hoo..
17:47.55 brlcad looks like configure is going to take 20 min
18:03.46 ``Erik heh
18:03.52 ``Erik and then two weeks to compile? ;)
18:04.35 brlcad i'm thinking it might actually already be throttled to the speed of the fax
18:04.47 brlcad so yeah.. maybe
18:06.01 brlcad i wasn't even sure it was working at first -- i ran configure and saw no output after two minutes.. then ran ./configure --help and waited.. took about 3-4 min to display the help :)
18:06.40 brlcad it's been "checking the maximum length of command line arguments" for about 5 minutes now
18:09.03 brlcad hmm... i think 20 minutes was optimistic
18:20.37 ``Erik is there any way to goof the speed for the compile sequence? or do you actually want those #'s? :)
18:21.34 ``Erik http://motherfuckingrecipes.com heh
18:59.46 brlcad heh, it's still checking thelength of comand line args..
19:00.50 brlcad simh is running full-steam according to a cpu monitor.. won't really know for sure about the timing until I can get a benchmark
19:03.59 brlcad could just be that certain operations, like I/O is extremely expensive
19:29.04 brlcad woot, done cheaking headers
19:29.45 Twingy I might be done gcam by the time you're done compiling
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19:33.41 ``Erik but will gcam be on hw that can be measured in dollars per ton? :D
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19:34.20 ``Erik http://www.cookingforengineers.com neat
19:34.26 brlcad screw gflops and mflops, long live flops
19:35.02 brlcad heh
19:35.13 ``Erik I'll call it... miniflop
19:35.17 ``Erik <-- holds his pinky to his lip
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060905

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060905

00:30.52 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:45.06 brlcad heh, "Elapsed configuration time ...........: 2 hours, 32 minutes, 44 seconds"
03:19.51 Maloeran Most impressive :)
03:30.47 dtidrow configuration for what?
04:20.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (9 files): Doxygen comment formatting
04:22.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: removed bn_list group
06:06.24 brlcad dtidrow: "./configure" took that long (something that usually takes 1-5 minutes)
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15:06.24 ``Erik sweet, 2.5 hrs to run a quick little script
15:06.56 brlcad :)
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15:16.01 ``Erik is it still compiling?
15:28.02 brlcad oh most definitely
15:39.30 Maloeran A bit early to guess how better the scene preparation is in comparison to the old prototype
15:42.18 clock_ good, better, best, bester
15:51.04 Maloeran A good motto this is
17:29.15 ``Erik bestest
17:37.18 brlcad bestest failed
18:01.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: windows interface is no longer tied to X interface, so use DM_X correspondingly
19:31.21 ``Erik heh
22:20.38 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add some means to disable/minimize libfft on systems that don't have enough memory to compile the larger filters.
22:28.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/sh_tcl.c: remove unused buf arrays and other unused vars
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23:06.13 *** part/#brlcad danex (n=david@adsl-156-96-31.asm.bellsouth.net)
23:49.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: remove equine excrement statement about there being no maximum size limit
23:57.45 ``Erik equine, or bovine?
23:58.18 dtidrow_work either way, it's still excrement ;-)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060906

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060906

00:01.06 ``Erik mebbe the line should've been changed to reflect the true limit of 32k ?
00:01.14 Twingy "It seems that Wolfgang Priklopil, the communications technician who kidnapped Austrian pre-teen Natascha Kampusch, relied on a Commodore 64 as his primary machine. Interestingly this is presenting some problems to the Austrian computer forensics people. Major General Gerhard Lang of the Federal Criminal Investigations Bureau told reporters it would 'complicate investigators' efforts' and would be difficult to transfer the files to m
00:01.14 Twingy odern computers 'without loss.' Could this be the latest in the criminal world's security strategy? Can we expect to see Spectrums, Archimedes, and Atari STs turning up in police investigations soon?"
00:01.41 ``Erik heh
00:02.04 ``Erik damnit, twinky, what'd we tell you about kidnapping preteens?
00:02.30 ``Erik (and c64 or sx64?)
00:02.44 Twingy I aint looking
00:03.14 ``Erik you dredged up an sx64 back in your apt, I dont' remember seeing a c64 :)
00:04.23 dtidrow_work Twingy: you have an sx64? I so wanted one of those back when I was in college
00:04.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: more details on the bizarre -s64 bug
00:04.41 Twingy says the sophomore who buys a sports car during a war on oil
00:05.13 dtidrow_work I oughta fire up the old Indigo I have and see if it still runs
00:05.14 Twingy dtidrow, a co-worker from my last employer gave it to me
00:05.15 ``Erik I'm special hurrrrrr
00:05.43 dtidrow_work haven't turned it on in years
00:05.49 Twingy I have wheel of fortune
00:05.52 ``Erik I thought the war was on tar, that's used to make roads, not fuel cars
00:08.44 dtidrow_work that reminds me - did you guys see this: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/pitchdrop/pitchdrop.shtml
00:45.40 Maloeran Mmhm, neat
00:46.32 dtidrow_work watching paint dry is nothing compared to watching pitch drip :-)
01:21.24 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
01:23.24 ``Erik glass does the same thing *shrug*
01:43.11 IriX64 glass of? ;)
01:43.55 IriX64 perhaps he prefers bottle of? :)
01:49.09 ``Erik no, like, window panes
01:49.11 ``Erik fucktard
01:49.12 ``Erik :)
01:49.47 IriX64 hrmph, only if yoyu're a woman will I accepts that. :)
01:50.34 IriX64 windows can't afford any more pain ``Erik :)
01:50.42 IriX64 pains too
01:51.33 IriX64 smokity break.
01:52.18 Maloeran ``Erik, it's more interesting when it's at room temperature :}
01:53.35 ``Erik mal: windows at room temperature are fluid... if you look at a hundred year old window pane, it's thicker at the bottom than the top
01:55.49 Maloeran Woah. I see, I really didn't know that
02:03.38 IriX64 unless its plexiglass.
02:05.23 IriX64 did you people ever look at the files I sent to ftp.brlcad.org some time ago?
02:30.33 ``Erik no.
05:32.04 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-93-108.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:00.08 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
15:38.32 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
15:38.33 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
16:02.30 *** join/#brlcad mauryzyo (n=fuysokoa@151.57.101.25)
16:02.38 mauryzyo hello everybody
16:02.56 mauryzyo I have a problem in the installation of brl-cad
16:03.12 mauryzyo is there anybody that could help?
16:05.54 mauryzyo is it possible to install brl-cad in the Applications directory?
16:08.21 Maloeran What operating system would that be? Compiling from source or installing binaries?
16:11.27 ``Erik "Applications" directory is very much a mac thing, afaik
16:12.19 mauryzyo I have mac osx
16:12.20 ``Erik you should be able to install brlcad anywhere you have write and execute permission, so /Applications is ok, but brlcad does not have a bundle, so it's not friendly to how finder works...
16:12.46 mauryzyo erik... no problem
16:13.00 mauryzyo I can install it where you want
16:13.17 mauryzyo but I don't know how
16:13.17 mauryzyo I have the file .pkg
16:13.26 mauryzyo I have run the .pkg
16:13.32 mauryzyo then I go to terminal
16:13.40 mauryzyo and I go to /usr
16:13.52 mauryzyo and there there is the brlcad folder
16:13.53 mauryzyo ok
16:14.01 ``Erik export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
16:14.04 mauryzyo <PROTECTED>
16:14.05 ``Erik then you can run "mged"
16:14.15 ``Erik you MIGHT need to be running X11.app
16:14.24 mauryzyo I have x11
16:14.49 mauryzyo but... if I go to /usr/brlcad/bin
16:14.56 mauryzyo ther eis not a file mged
16:15.01 ``Erik mebbe it's mged.sh
16:15.05 ``Erik ?
16:16.09 mauryzyo when I go to /usr/brlcad/bin
16:16.16 mauryzyo I write ls -i
16:16.29 mauryzyo it tells me that there are no files
16:16.32 mauryzyo nothing...
16:17.19 ``Erik :o
16:17.43 mauryzyo I don't understand where the problem is
16:17.46 ``Erik sounds like maybe the pkg is broken? was it really a pkg, not just a dmg with a directory to drag?
16:17.53 mauryzyo if I made mistakes during the installation process
16:18.08 mauryzyo a pkg
16:18.20 ``Erik hrm, brlcad would be the guy to talk to about that
16:18.39 ``Erik if you lurk long enough, he'll look at irc again *shrgu*
16:20.48 mauryzyo erik..
16:21.07 mauryzyo could you give me the right link and I retry to reinstall it?
16:21.24 ``Erik right link? I always build mine from source...
16:21.47 ``Erik if you want to do that, http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.gz?download
16:22.17 ``Erik then untar it, go into the dir, run "./configure && make && make install"
16:22.30 ``Erik then go have a nice cup of coffee and read the morning paper, cuz it'll take a while
16:22.58 mauryzyo ok Erik I download it
16:23.12 mauryzyo and then please assist me during the installation
16:23.22 mauryzyo I need this program absolutely
16:23.23 mauryzyo :-))))
16:24.06 ``Erik <-- just gave you the q&d 'how to install', plus the source package has a file named INSTALL
16:25.29 mauryzyo ok
16:25.42 mauryzyo but it is one day that I try...
16:25.55 mauryzyo I have downloaded it now
16:28.26 mauryzyo sorry but...
16:28.29 mauryzyo x11
16:28.40 mauryzyo is a windows server?
16:28.54 mauryzyo Do I have to install it in my mac osx?
16:29.25 ``Erik yesh, the X windowing system, unix for graphics... if you have tiger (10.4), it should be on your install dvd
16:30.11 mauryzyo ok
16:30.23 mauryzyo I have seen that I already have this program
16:30.30 mauryzyo in the Applications folder
16:30.37 mauryzyo I never used if before
16:30.44 mauryzyo now...
16:30.56 mauryzyo I downloaded the file you gave to me
16:31.02 mauryzyo I opened it
16:31.18 mauryzyo and there is a folder brlcad-7.8.2
16:31.28 mauryzyo I hope all is ok
16:31.40 ``Erik go in there, and run "./configure"
16:32.14 mauryzyo ok
16:32.17 mauryzyo with x11?
16:32.28 mauryzyo Do I open x11 before?
16:32.28 ``Erik either an xterm or a Terminal.app
16:32.32 ``Erik it doesn't matter at this point
16:32.38 mauryzyo ok
16:32.46 ``Erik <-- likes xterm more than Terminal.app :)
16:33.01 mauryzyo I open the Terminal
16:33.16 mauryzyo I go to the folder brlcad-7.8.2
16:33.28 mauryzyo and I run
16:33.29 mauryzyo ./configure
16:33.38 mauryzyo I write ./configure
16:34.15 ``Erik lots of text scroll, I hope
16:36.54 mauryzyo I did
16:36.55 mauryzyo configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
16:37.26 ``Erik ooh, you need the developer kit installed, get it from your install dvd, sorry hehehe
16:38.37 mauryzyo what?
16:39.06 ``Erik "xcode"
16:39.12 mauryzyo It is too much difficult for me
16:39.17 mauryzyo to install this program
16:41.54 Maloeran The package for OSX binaries out of the sourceforge files doesn't work? That's what you used, right?
16:43.09 ``Erik apparently brlcad/bin was empty, alexis... *shrug*
16:44.11 Maloeran Just making sure he used the official package and not some other, but I don't suppose there are dozen package management systems on OSX as on Linux
16:45.01 ``Erik well, there's a few big mechanisms on mac... the pkg system, the bundle drag&drop way, the 'installshield' and 'installit' third party apps... :/
16:46.49 ``Erik installing...
16:47.06 ``Erik hm
16:47.10 ``Erik I see a very full /usr/brlcad/bin
16:47.21 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
16:47.30 ``Erik /usr/brlcad/bin$ ls | wc -l
16:47.58 ``Erik /usr/brlcad$ du -s .
16:47.58 ``Erik 176144 .
16:48.31 ``Erik yeah, works for me, the pkg is ok... *shrug* mebbe you need to rm -rf /usr/brlcad and try the pkg again?
16:50.48 ``Erik alexis: do I get to see pretty pictures on friday? :D
16:51.10 Maloeran Won't be very pretty yet, but sure :)
16:51.44 Maloeran It's a lot more work than one could think, I'm writing this raytracing pipeline to handle dynamic geometry with multiple graphs already
16:51.56 Maloeran No point in doing anything less to see the code being thrown away later
16:52.34 ``Erik okie, coo'
16:53.22 Maloeran I haven't really looked into this "convenience library" stuff, mm.c still needs fixing, plus I'll be reusing some code ( old libfrti ) for multiple demos
16:53.55 Maloeran If you are ever incredibly bored, setting an autoconf/automake/libtools framework for this stuff would be appreciated ;)
17:30.31 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-227.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:06.55 ``Erik heh
19:07.33 ``Erik ohyeah, btw, because you used make style behaviors instead of autoconf style behaviors, your program only compiles on linux...
19:07.37 ``Erik :D
19:14.50 Maloeran Feel free to pinpoint problems more precisely, I don't have fbsd around at the moment
19:15.35 ValarQ IriX64: foo
20:39.18 IriX64 ValarQ: fo is Gods function :)
20:39.24 IriX64 foo too
20:40.55 ValarQ :p)
20:41.41 ValarQ IriX64: lightened your desktop yet?
20:41.51 IriX64 ValarQ: which .g file is yours?
20:42.05 IriX64 and no i havent its still pretty heavy:)
20:42.14 ValarQ no .g file is mine
20:42.33 IriX64 push of a button it all goes away anyway :)
20:43.49 ValarQ http://arda.no-ip.org/fancydesktop.png
20:43.57 ValarQ my new fancy desktop :)
20:45.50 IriX64 you're good.
20:46.03 IriX64 im not that advanced yet. :)
20:46.44 IriX64 XL?
20:47.01 ValarQ XL?
20:47.13 IriX64 forgot the name of that package.
20:47.22 ValarQ XGL?
20:47.23 IriX64 XGL?
20:47.27 IriX64 heh
20:47.28 ValarQ :)
20:47.39 ``Erik mal: libdl is very linux.
20:47.39 IriX64 havent got that yet.
20:47.42 ValarQ XGL/Compiz to be more precise
20:47.52 IriX64 thankyou.
20:48.20 IriX64 does it cause you're knuckles to bleed?
20:48.29 ``Erik hrmmmm
20:48.30 ``Erik with gnome?
20:49.04 ``Erik and I guess that's irssi, not bx?
20:49.05 Maloeran Erik, POSIX 1003.1-2003 describes dlclose(), dlerror(), dlopen(), and dlsym().
20:49.12 Maloeran What's specific to Linux?
20:49.21 ``Erik mal: yes, and sane systems, since it's a POSIX set, put it in libc
20:49.49 ``Erik glibc used to have it in libc.so, too, but they broke it out
20:49.52 ValarQ IriX64: not yet
20:49.58 Maloeran Oh well, then it's just the automake stuff which needs fixing
20:52.21 ``Erik in configure.ac, use the search-libs to find the function, and set DL to whatever is returned, then AC_SUBST and add @DL@ when dl* is needed :)
20:53.19 ``Erik libtool has some shtuff for that, too
20:53.42 ValarQ IriX64: http://arda.no-ip.org/brlcadshot.png
20:55.34 clock_ good ole chopper
20:56.47 ``Erik Mi-28
20:57.05 ``Erik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-28
20:57.07 ``Erik :D
20:59.34 IriX64 transparent? how cool is that coolness?
21:00.45 IriX64 ``Erik... one word gag me with a spoon :)
21:01.52 IriX64 XGL...good stuff ValarQ:?
21:02.13 IriX64 is source available?
21:05.28 ValarQ yes
21:05.46 IriX64 where? one i found is for suse.
21:06.26 ValarQ i use the portage overlay for gentoo
21:06.49 IriX64 all specific tho right?
21:07.00 ValarQ what?
21:07.39 IriX64 all specific to an os? is a platform independant version of the source available like brlcad?
21:08.52 ValarQ i guess it depends pretty hard on OpenGL and unix sockets (it's X after all)
21:09.01 ValarQ but it should work on any system
21:09.17 IriX64 so whos code should i borrow:)
21:09.47 ValarQ i believe freedesktop got the cvs repo
21:10.10 ValarQ http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXgl
21:10.50 IriX64 thwy have 5 components where's the beef:)
21:11.22 ValarQ it's gonna be pretty much work to set it up from source on your own...
21:12.31 IriX64 tell me about it. (sticky note applied to ValarQ's forehead...remind Irix64 of this in a month ) :)
21:14.02 ValarQ heh
21:16.59 IriX64 just so we're comparing apples with apples, gentoo=gnu64?
21:17.51 IriX64 or are we back in gnu32?
21:20.31 IriX64 btw you should rotate that helicoptor ValarQ.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060907

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060907

01:19.55 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Doxygen updates
01:23.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Doxygen updates
01:34.25 IriX64 ahhh linux-gentoo, thanks for clarifying, haven't paid much attention to *nix os's lately.
01:35.41 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
01:38.12 IriX64 other than redhat linux 6.0 :)
03:31.21 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:31.36 IriX64 the forge man :)
03:32.17 IriX64 Twingy: why won't os/2 install in vmware server ;)
03:33.36 IriX64 That leftist (tm) build of gentoo is purely wonderful.
03:34.29 IriX64 netstat -q
03:34.34 IriX64 whup.
03:38.12 IriX64 refresh my memory. how do i burn this iso image to cd?
03:39.27 ``Erik depends on teh os
03:39.43 Twingy put da cd in your toaster
03:41.20 IriX64 toaster popped, still don't know and its xp pro svc pk 2.
03:42.24 Maloeran mkisofs and cdrecord should do nicely on Gentoo or any other unix
03:42.54 IriX64 man those are unix apps.
03:43.25 IriX64 im going to install gentoo in vmware if i get an installation cd burned.
03:45.07 Maloeran Ah, so you don't have Gentoo up yet. Search for Nero if I remember correctly
03:45.19 IriX64 thankyou.
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04:01.48 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
09:27.52 brlcad ValarQ: neat desktop.. though seems like it'd be kinda hard to use like that ;)
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14:20.47 ValarQ brlcad: yes, thought it has some bright sides
14:22.50 Maloeran I never quite understood the point of transparency in a GUI, mostly the text and interfaces are just harder to read
14:25.25 archivist w
14:26.02 archivist for gif type images where a an image is round etc
14:27.08 archivist often used for icons on the background
14:27.17 ValarQ Maloeran: constant transparency like in my shots are mostly useless
14:27.50 ValarQ Maloeran: transparency of non-active windows might be a good idea thought
14:32.48 ValarQ _might_*
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16:05.24 Maloeran It lives! I just actually rendered my first picture with the new raytracer code base, after a month without seeing anything
16:07.05 Maloeran http://www.rayforce.net/yaayy.png It sure is not impressive, but I'll meet that Friday milestone, Erik o.O
17:05.32 dtidrow heh
17:07.26 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
17:07.39 ``Erik look like... an m1a2 abrams mbt?
17:09.03 Maloeran Pfft, me use a cube? :)
17:09.59 Maloeran The m1a2 yes, mostly upside down. It's reaching a pathetic 1.3-2.0 million rays per second at the moment
17:10.06 ``Erik on?
17:10.25 Maloeran Amd64 single core
17:13.23 ``Erik mhz?
17:13.29 ``Erik erm
17:13.31 ``Erik ghz, sorry
17:13.31 Maloeran 2.2ghz
17:13.32 ``Erik I'm old
17:13.36 Maloeran Ehehe
17:13.43 ``Erik is it multithreaded yet?
17:14.17 Maloeran It is not, the preparation is very poor and the raytracing completely un-optimized
17:14.33 Maloeran Just give me 2 months or so ;), it's 7 times slower than the prototype at the moment
17:15.00 ``Erik I think it's still 'satisfactory'
17:17.14 Maloeran Should be satisfactory for the "Initial rendering capability" milestone, yes
17:21.54 ``Erik mwahahhaa
17:24.07 Maloeran How dare you make my code compile on freebsd! *sobs*
17:24.16 ``Erik heh
17:24.17 ``Erik and mac
17:25.05 Maloeran Right. Actually, if you don't mind taking care of all the autoconf/libtools mess, I sure won't mind :)
17:25.53 ``Erik weeeee, segfault on mac
17:26.10 Maloeran Promising. Can you pinpoint that for me?
17:26.33 ``Erik Program received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.
17:26.33 ``Erik Reason: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at address: 0x3c300598
17:26.33 ``Erik rfAddTrianglef (v0=0x3c300590, v1=0x3c300590, v2=0x24300590, value=0x1) at ../../../RF/group.c:253
17:26.33 ``Erik 253 memcpy( &rtri->pt[0], v0, 3*sizeof(rff) );
17:26.57 ``Erik printf right before was: Model loaded, 426902016 triangles
17:27.12 Maloeran Okay, this is not an ia32 Mac, right?
17:27.17 ``Erik no
17:27.19 ``Erik g5
17:27.21 Maloeran The data file's endianess is messing things up
17:27.23 ``Erik right endian
17:27.25 Maloeran The m1a2
17:27.44 ``Erik uhmmmm
17:28.08 ``Erik I think I have, um, X installed on the quad opteron... gimme a few, I'll go check it there
17:28.44 Maloeran *nods* Feel free to report anything, I'll be away for a few minutes
17:35.39 ``Erik sweet, I broke the linux compile
17:56.41 ``Erik annnnddd, on leenewx... http://paste.lisp.org/display/25579
18:22.54 Maloeran Weee. Okay, I'll look into this :)
18:26.52 Maloeran Looking at the code, I sure don't see how it was working in the first place, pointer was unitialized. anchor = ot.anchor;
18:29.51 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:24.29 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060908

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060908

00:44.51 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:11.52 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051727.dsl.bell.ca)
02:12.27 IriX64 will gentoo install on a vmware virtual machine?
02:15.54 IriX64 ? :)
02:16.44 Maloeran What about installing Gentoo for real? :)
02:17.03 IriX64 blows away my existing installation.
02:17.17 Maloeran Doesn't seem a good idea to run an OS relying that much on compilation in an emulator
02:17.21 Maloeran Just resize it
02:17.36 IriX64 ?
02:17.57 Twingy I use fbsd emulator for all my robotics dev work
02:18.03 Twingy fbsd in parallels
02:18.10 IriX64 ?
02:18.14 Twingy with two displays
02:18.24 Twingy fbsd running fullscreen on left, MacOS on right playing itunes
02:18.41 IriX64 freebsd?
02:18.47 Twingy jah
02:19.31 Twingy get a job
02:20.00 Maloeran Freebsd is quite free, can't take too much disk space either
02:20.08 IriX64 jobs avois me like the plague :)
02:20.18 IriX64 avoid too.
02:20.22 Twingy once gcam is mature I might try my hand at some supplementary income
02:20.40 IriX64 graphics cam? :)
02:20.44 Maloeran It won't be open-source then?
02:20.44 Twingy gnu
02:20.48 Twingy it will be
02:20.53 IriX64 heh
02:20.55 Maloeran Then you'll sell tech support?
02:21.00 Twingy nope
02:21.06 Maloeran Volountary donations?
02:21.17 Twingy that always helps
02:21.23 IriX64 different project?
02:21.29 IriX64 = income?
02:21.36 Twingy stuff I build with it
02:21.46 Maloeran Ah, I see
02:21.56 Twingy hopefully out of aluminum
02:22.23 IriX64 Twingy, ever hear od steel welding?
02:22.28 IriX64 of too.
02:22.48 Twingy I weld steel when I need to
02:22.56 IriX64 you take the acetlyne bottle and replace it with hydrogen.
02:23.13 IriX64 use a steel rod instead of those brazinf rods.
02:23.21 IriX64 brazing too.
02:23.24 Twingy for what purpose?
02:23.42 Twingy you just like jumped off topic
02:23.43 IriX64 high temperature welds.
02:23.46 Twingy ok, great
02:23.50 Twingy now back to aluminum
02:23.52 Twingy :)
02:23.56 IriX64 heh all right.
02:24.05 IriX64 aluminum rods.
02:24.22 Twingy next purchase will be a band saw for cleaning up my castings
02:24.36 Twingy but not until my solar panels are installed
02:24.37 IriX64 grinder does a good job.
02:24.46 Twingy grinder is not designed for that
02:25.00 IriX64 using appropriate attachments it is.
02:25.27 Twingy ok, you can pound a round peg through a square hole, but I prefer the round holes myself
02:25.38 Twingy which is why I will be getting a band saw
02:25.55 IriX64 wouldnt be a square peg or round hole anymore now would it.?
02:26.02 Twingy no
02:26.09 Twingy because I'm implying it works
02:26.24 IriX64 im dense. act accordingly.
02:26.27 Twingy it's just not appropriate
02:26.48 Twingy I know you are, I'm trying to compensate
02:27.00 Twingy and remain benevolent
02:27.05 IriX64 don't over compensate though. :)
02:27.27 IriX64 gotta see a man about a recurrring leak bbiab.
02:27.53 Twingy you should be giving yourself lobotomies
02:28.03 Twingy *shouldn't
02:28.17 Twingy but apparently you think otherwise
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11:16.33 ``Erik band saw? for flash? or for the pour channel?
11:44.33 archivist ally doesnt grind well as it fills the grinding wheel
11:45.27 archivist I wear out a dremel a year
12:56.14 ``Erik yeah... but aluminum is very fileable
12:56.20 ``Erik and files can be cleaned with a wire brush
12:56.22 ``Erik *shrug*
12:56.57 ``Erik up around brass and harder, a grinding wheel is awesome, though
12:57.05 archivist hehe depends on the copper content pure is sticky as hell
12:57.24 ``Erik that'ts why I said brass, not copper
12:57.26 ``Erik O:-)
12:57.37 archivist angle grinder heaven
12:57.52 ``Erik part of me misses the days of working in a metal shop
12:58.03 ``Erik then I remember how much I hate physical labor ;)
12:58.13 archivist as a clockmaker I still get dirty
12:58.30 ``Erik cool... maker? mostly repair work on antiques?
12:59.06 archivist make parts for new and antque
12:59.32 ``Erik and I have absolutely no desire to wear a wristwatch or pocketwatch
12:59.34 archivist last job www/archivist.info/pendulum guess the metal
12:59.42 ``Erik too many people care too much about time
12:59.53 ``Erik forbidden
12:59.54 ``Erik 403
13:00.02 archivist hehe replace / with .
13:00.14 ``Erik hurrr
13:00.35 archivist www.archivist.info/pendulum
13:01.13 ``Erik hmmmmm, looks too hard to be platinum?
13:01.23 archivist not hard
13:01.37 ``Erik and the surface looks too shiney to be aluminum
13:01.46 ``Erik but the old surface is too matte to be a steel
13:01.46 archivist never usually seen shiny
13:01.59 ``Erik if I spit on it, would it explod?
13:02.00 ``Erik :D
13:02.07 archivist cast iron
13:02.12 ``Erik really?
13:02.17 ``Erik that's an awful clean piece of stock
13:02.35 archivist yup continously cast
13:02.50 ``Erik full size (and old, well abused) lathe, I see
13:03.19 archivist 1956 worn out
13:03.23 ``Erik the bevel cut... was that ground and polished? or is that from the bit?
13:03.31 ``Erik cuz it's insanely smooth
13:04.02 archivist turned 1 thou feed and then wet and dry then polich
13:04.23 ``Erik ok, so it's been polished, not a straight bit cut :) hehehe
13:04.54 ``Erik and I seeeee.... an irc client, it looks like... and firefox... cooking? pastebin... O:-)
13:05.08 ``Erik btw, mysql sucks, postgresql++
13:05.13 ``Erik imho
13:05.13 Maloeran So you cut this kind of stuff if your garage as well, like Justin? :) Building a pendulum?
13:05.26 archivist its my day job
13:05.49 ``Erik all my experience was during a highschool "metal shop" class
13:05.50 ``Erik heh
13:06.04 ``Erik so I got a good breadth, but not a lot of narrow experience
13:06.30 ``Erik just 'nuff that I know when to pick what machine, and probably won't lose too many fingers, heh
13:06.52 archivist its the boss here that machines his fingers not me
13:07.02 ``Erik well
13:07.21 ``Erik bosses in general are incompetent in attempting the tasks their "subordinates" do
13:07.42 archivist I had to take him to hospital after he gear cut his finger
13:07.54 Maloeran Ouch.
13:08.01 ``Erik I code for a living, my supervisor has a masters in CS, but couldn't code her way out of a wet paper sack
13:08.06 ``Erik just a cut?
13:08.10 archivist .8 module index finger
13:08.27 ``Erik I took a good chunk of one off with twinkies r/c plane, got an ambulance trip, they sewed it on, but it ain't quite right :/
13:08.48 Maloeran Erik, Wendy really has a master in CS?
13:09.01 ``Erik I think so
13:09.04 ``Erik heh
13:09.16 Maloeran Now I really have no esteem left for the formal educational system
13:09.19 ``Erik dixie has a doctorate in cs... and doesn't know the difference between a programming language and a library
13:09.38 ``Erik mike, however, has a doctorate in cs, and is pretty damn brilliant
13:09.56 Maloeran Survice would like me to get a degree for some reason, possibly so they can ask more from the ARL
13:10.12 ``Erik BUT, in the "real world", it's more or less given that the more formal education you've had,t he more you know...
13:10.39 ``Erik if I were to dispute something dixie said, 95% of the 'real world' would tell me to sod off, because I just have a bs, not a phd
13:10.42 ``Erik *shrug*
13:11.02 ``Erik and people without a bs are only useful for flipping burgers, according to 95% of the industry
13:11.04 ``Erik :)
13:11.14 archivist knowing how to use a library is better than a degree sometimes
13:11.24 ``Erik (it's just a hoop to jump through, but *shrug* if you wanna be heard...)
13:11.41 Maloeran Aw Erik :), I suppose I better inform Survice about these new career plans
13:12.08 ``Erik at least with undergrad degrees, you DO get a good breadth of information that focused self-education would completely fail at
13:12.44 ``Erik I thought I knew it all and was a superguru until I got to the upper level undergrad program ;0
13:13.56 Maloeran Useful information, or perhaps just knowing by heart the O notation for all "standard" common algorithms?
13:14.18 ``Erik meh, asymptotic notation is a minor player
13:14.40 ``Erik grocking the theoretical, and being forced to use a wide range of languages from a wide range of paradigm on a wide range of tasks was interesting
13:15.14 ``Erik I still look up and reread some of the classic simple 'problems' to keep my mind semi-limber...
13:15.26 ``Erik <-- points at the halting problem in a safari tab :)
13:16.06 ``Erik and that's exactly why undergrad cs would benefit you.
13:16.08 ``Erik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
13:16.32 Maloeran Oh, that
13:16.52 Maloeran Safari encountered such a situation? :) That's unexpected
13:16.58 ``Erik no, hah
13:17.01 ``Erik the webpage is open in safari
13:17.40 ``Erik fundamental computer science... the theoretical stuff... gets me off :D
13:17.58 ``Erik dfa's, turing machines, p/np...
13:18.04 ``Erik underappreciated.
13:18.16 ``Erik <-- points at his brainfuck interpreter and compiler...
13:18.25 ``Erik that's where academic optimization research should happen
13:18.26 ``Erik not c
13:19.08 Maloeran It's often possible when faced with a though, slow or impratical problem... to just change the problem itself
13:19.19 ``Erik erm...
13:19.20 ``Erik dur
13:19.26 ``Erik that's a core premise of p/np
13:19.50 Maloeran For having read so many papers on ray-tracing, it's something a lot of people seem to forget
13:20.14 ``Erik just cuz 99.999% of people misapply the taught computer sciences does not mean that formal cs is useless, dude
13:20.34 Maloeran *nods* Right ;)
13:20.50 ``Erik seriously, you're smart enough to grok what is said and benefit from it, opposed to the normal 'copy what thte prof says and regurgitate to pass the class' bs
13:22.12 Maloeran Really? I wouldn't have guessed that
13:22.14 ``Erik but I'm old enough that I pick my battles against beaurocracy carefully :)
13:22.28 archivist cos sometimes the prof is at the level of "if you cant do it, teach it" so you need to thoink around what the buggers are on about
13:22.40 ``Erik heh, indeed
13:23.03 ``Erik with my undergrad, there was only one prof that knew the subject.. the rest were regurgitation machines
13:23.18 ``Erik there was on omfg computer scientist, one omfg software engineer, and a pack of fucktards
13:23.25 ``Erik teaching the cirriculum
13:23.41 Maloeran You may as well rely on books then
13:23.49 ``Erik fortunately, the cs was my advisor, and I talked to him a lot, so I got a LOT more out of school than just the courses
13:23.56 ``Erik heh
13:24.04 ``Erik who will tell you the right book?
13:24.13 archivist allways red multiple books on a subject for the same reasons
13:24.17 archivist read
13:24.30 ``Erik I have books on my shelf I would have never seen if it weren't for well informed people suggesting them *shrug*
13:24.48 ``Erik like, in opengl, the average do-it-yourselfer would probably go look at nehe
13:24.59 ``Erik if no one tells them "NO! Bad fucktard! no nehe! go read the redbook!"
13:25.01 ``Erik ...
13:25.53 Maloeran Sure, sure. I'm just not convinced the educational benefits are worth the time investment, but I'll ponder about that later
13:26.10 ``Erik also; getting to sit down with a math teacher and get the REAL scoop on quaternions in a sit tdown session was... invaluable.
13:26.45 archivist I have started a few courses but ended up not finishing as the day job got in the way
13:26.48 ``Erik the educational benefits are not limited to lectures *shrug*
13:27.06 ``Erik don't discount the atmosphere and availability of expertise
13:27.30 ``Erik despite the mountains of bullshit heaped out of the institution
13:27.30 ``Erik :D
13:27.40 archivist open university maths was hard for me but the 1 to 1 tutorials got me through
13:27.47 Maloeran I see.. :)
13:28.43 Maloeran There are _way_ too many papers without any content worth reading out there, it's horrible
13:29.29 ``Erik yeah, most of those papers are the uni saying "you must publish this year" and the person going "oh, uhhhh, ok, lemme crap in a word processor for a week, shove it out the door, and go back to what I was doing"
13:30.18 archivist then a crap reviewer doesnt read and check properly
13:30.21 ``Erik heh, I did one lame publication... and just straight copied most of it into another multi-person paper... *shrug*
13:30.57 ``Erik if you're punished for not producing, but not punished for producing crap... save your time for fun stuff, shove crap out the door
13:31.31 Maloeran Exactly. Most papers coming out of private companies and so on appear equally worthless, it's not limited to the educational system
13:31.48 ``Erik hm
13:31.48 Maloeran I'm really amazed by this need, this urge to publish even when one doesn't have anything to say
13:32.04 ``Erik it's a condition of pointy haired management, I believe
13:32.14 ``Erik not the people writing the papers
13:32.22 Maloeran Most likely so, yes
13:32.26 dtidrow yep
13:32.52 ``Erik of the, um, five publications I have out or in queue for this org... on my own, I wouldn't have called any of them publishable.
13:33.08 ``Erik my old stuff is far more useful, heh
13:33.53 ``Erik but if I don't have publications, I get graded down in my annual review
13:34.26 Maloeran The "new" developments from Siggraph in the field of raytracing that Lee presented were already out there, present in dozen papers pratically copying each other
13:34.53 Maloeran Seriously? Now that is sad
13:34.55 ``Erik heh
13:35.03 ``Erik look over the last 5 yrs of siggraph
13:35.12 ``Erik every year, it's the same damn stuff
13:35.17 ``Erik with minor tweaks
13:35.20 Maloeran Exactly
13:35.46 ``Erik but I enjoyed siggraph a lot... getting to talk to people... the papers are just fluff, talking to people is where it gets cool
13:35.46 Maloeran And apparently, we are going to go over the same old stuff on September 18-20
13:35.58 dtidrow what conference is then?
13:36.08 ``Erik ieee rt06
13:36.21 ``Erik http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html
13:36.47 ``Erik fuck
13:36.51 Maloeran Frankly, I would rather just keep coding than go, but...
13:36.53 Maloeran Hum?
13:36.58 ``Erik I need to do my poster, it was accepted and I haven't really started it, heh
13:37.38 ``Erik ohyeah, I showed the output of your program to some people and they liked it... fyi
13:38.06 ``Erik 510k p/s on a dual 2.0 p4-xeon
13:38.07 Maloeran The current slow and crude pixel dump or the prototype?
13:38.12 ``Erik the pixel dump
13:38.17 Maloeran Gah! Don't show that :)
13:38.19 ``Erik I hit it with pix-png -a
13:38.21 ``Erik heh
13:38.24 ``Erik dude
13:38.28 ``Erik it's visible output
13:38.31 Maloeran Show that : http://www.rayforce.net/lightdemo-ms.avi
13:38.35 ``Erik they were psyched
13:39.01 Maloeran Eh well, as long as you don't say much about the current level of performance of that thing :)
13:39.19 ``Erik I mentioned it, and noted that you had not started optimizing it yet
13:39.24 ``Erik you're ahead of the game, dude, it's all good
13:39.45 ``Erik I mean, I'm running renders at 20k p/s on that machine
13:39.55 ``Erik 510k is definitely an improvement
13:40.01 Maloeran Was it Lee and/or Wendy, or other unspecified people?
13:40.54 ``Erik heh, both the named people
13:41.01 ``Erik I showed it to lee, he showed it to wendy
13:43.30 Maloeran Ahead of the game by one day I suppose :), I needed visible output for today
13:44.06 ``Erik I saw a pixdump, that's visible output *shrug* if anyone asks, I'm gonna say we met that milestone early
13:44.31 ``Erik now an SDL interactive quack type thingie would be awesome, but it's fluff
13:45.09 Maloeran I really could use 2 weeks to complete the model preparation, it's terribly crude
13:45.47 Maloeran Ehehe
13:46.19 ``Erik um, you have a week estimate for regression suite, do you really think that'd take more than a day?
13:46.28 ``Erik and another week for api review
13:46.30 ``Erik ... hurrrr
13:46.48 ``Erik and then 3 weeks for ray bundles, which you probably already have, or are close to
13:46.49 Maloeran The regression suite, that's testing the raytracing for accuracy?
13:46.49 ``Erik ...
13:47.18 dtidrow heh - padding, padding, padding ;-)
13:47.19 ``Erik um, accuracy, performance, functionality
13:47.19 Maloeran Right right, it's all good ; that initial rendering milestone was the tricky one
13:47.23 ``Erik just a nightly script to compile it, run it, annotate a file with some info
13:48.32 dtidrow in lightdemo-ms.avi - did you notice that the tank is actually the mirror image of the real thing?
13:48.39 ``Erik I'd actually recommend two scripts, one very simple skeleton that checks out the repo fresh in like /usr/tmp/rayforce-`date +%Y%m%d%H%M`, runs another script, then rm -rf's
13:49.02 Maloeran Is it, dtidrow? My coordinate system might be... mirrored
13:49.04 ``Erik and the other script to autogen, configure, build, and run the programs
13:49.37 ``Erik hah, it is mirrored
13:49.58 Maloeran Oops :}
13:50.04 dtidrow I wondered why it looked wrong at first :-)
13:50.12 dtidrow s/wrong/odd/
13:51.38 Maloeran The new code doesn't produce a mirrored output though. Curious, still
13:52.51 ``Erik aaanyways, we need to get some good representative models with better use policies... anything released with brlcad is grand to use, and I need to track down 'owners' for a couple models to get them approved for public release... one being a toyota "hilux" pickup truck
13:53.53 Maloeran Right. Or I'll have a nice renaissance frigate soon as I said
13:54.36 ``Erik well, as much as I'd love to get my hands on that model, pay attention to the license...
13:57.03 Maloeran For the frigate? That won't be a problem
13:58.40 ``Erik if'n ya buy it and put i t in the cvs repo, there should probably be an accompanying license or something, to make it clear where it came from, who holds the copyright, and what the license agreement is
13:59.12 ``Erik total cya. :D
13:59.43 Maloeran Yes, we'll have to make it clear. The author is a hobbist who usually just distributes his stuff freely
13:59.47 Maloeran Have fun with that poster :)
14:00.03 ``Erik cya == "cover your ass"
14:00.15 Maloeran Ohh :)
14:00.24 dtidrow ``Erik: I used to work at TACOM years ago, so I'm rather familiar with tanks :-)
14:00.47 dtidrow bbl - got a squacky baby to deal with...
14:01.12 ``Erik nifty, I'm rdecomm, arl/slad/bs
14:09.29 dtidrow ``Erik: so yu work up at Aberdeen with lee and that crowd?
14:10.13 ``Erik 'fraid so
14:11.09 ``Erik I'm sorta kinda in the flux of going back to lee's team at the moment... everyone but the branch chief acknowleged that I changed teams back to acst like six months ago, heh
14:11.31 dtidrow heh
14:12.13 ``Erik the limbo was... somewhat pleasant :) but now I'm back to workin' *sigh*
14:12.38 dtidrow lol
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14:59.02 archivist thinking about my pendulum, I want 3d cad to calc the CG at different temperatures when filled with mercury (so needs to know about contained liquids)
14:59.57 archivist I had to draw multiple versions in solidworks to get around it
15:05.57 ``Erik that'd be a fluid dynamics problem to solve the shape of the fluid...
15:06.11 ``Erik once you have the shape and densities, the cg is fairly easy
15:06.59 ``Erik <-- been itching to do fem/cfd type code in brlcad, but has no time just yet
15:09.08 archivist but the shape of the container is changing with temp so "needs" to be part of 3d system (little need as far as I can see in the real world) as compensation is done in software these days
15:10.27 archivist just that we deal with people building clocks in the old fashioned way
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21:03.31 Maloeran This is weird. I never noticed before that the m1 model has "polygons" where the 3 points are colinear, that causes some nasty artefacts in the new code
21:11.11 dtidrow_work all three colinear?
21:11.44 dtidrow_work oh, duh - thinking of something else
21:12.03 dtidrow_work degenerate tris to make longer strips, perhaps?
21:13.06 Maloeran Perhaps so, I suppose I'll have to strip them out for raytracing
21:55.19 ``Erik why?
21:58.39 Maloeran My intersection test can't handle triangles with an area of 0.0, and logically, no rays is ever going to hit them anyway
22:20.34 ``Erik ah, div by zero error?
22:24.46 Maloeran More like the preparation of such triangles, prior to raytracing, outputting a few NaNs
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060909

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060909

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00:33.59 IriX64 ah, I see the brass is all here :)
00:35.18 IriX64 ValarQ: that gentoo iso is too big for my disks, only support 700meg here.
00:37.11 IriX64 I can unpack the iso i suppose but what the heck do i do without the installer?
00:41.34 ``Erik heh
00:41.45 ``Erik are you intending to install native, or vm?
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00:49.55 IriX64 vm preferably.
00:50.44 IriX64 either way have to be able to boot the iso.
00:53.09 Maloeran Boot iso from network? Store CD on the raw partition of an old disk and boot it?
00:53.27 Maloeran I'm not too sure about the second, but theorically...
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05:00.27 Marcelo_Bass alguem fala portugues?
05:00.53 Marcelo_Bass hummm
05:02.51 Marcelo_Bass somebody know to install the brl-cad?
08:08.27 Twingy john travolta could speak portugues in some movie
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13:11.53 ``Erik O.O
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060910

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060910

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22:30.29 Maloeran Erik, what's the proper way to make this autoconf stuff to target a certain processor for optimisation, -mtune?
22:31.30 Maloeran Preferably, also optionally replacing -g with -s -fomit-frame-pointer, etc. ...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060911

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060911

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01:48.09 IriX64 would a geometry browser pane be too much to add do you think?
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07:31.33 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: Removed number.c
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13:15.24 brlcad IriX64: no, not really -- was actually already added in the initial implementation -- it's just disabled/hidden and unused
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060912

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060912

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11:29.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: so we apparently can't actually call any opengl function (at least on macosx) without a valid context or it will cause a bus error, so instead just link against some useful symbols.
11:32.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: er, reverse that order. if we're building tcl, then we have tcl_nil -- otherwise link against TCL
11:47.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: linking against a system tkstub library may require linking against the tclstub library as well, at least that seems to be the case on mac os x's default-provided static tkstub archive
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19:30.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-xxx.c: Modified g-xxx.c to db_walk_tree verses db_fun_tree
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060913

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060913

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09:52.12 ValarQ IriX64: still to much clutter :P
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060914

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060914

00:00.04 IriX64 how do i use Photon mapping light model properly?
00:01.56 IriX64 i'm particularly confused byt visualize irradiance cache.
00:02.02 IriX64 -t
00:07.48 ``Erik you probably don't want to visualize that
00:29.47 IriX64 probably? it came out black :)
00:35.48 IriX64 Global Photons 16384 irradiance rays 100 angular Tol 60 scale indirect 1.0 and use irradiance hpersampling cache comes out better but still dark :)
00:36.45 IriX64 photon mapping is simply a lighting model which i use to display a model.
00:36.57 IriX64 solid model.
00:41.44 IriX64 nice of you to offer 7 different lighting models :)
00:45.19 ``Erik hrm, did you define a light source when you tried rendering with photon mapping?
00:46.09 ``Erik ARL-TR-3608 is Justin's report on photon mapping, if you can find it... I d'no how much it applies to using the gui thingy in mged, though :)
00:48.41 IriX64 photon mapping i'm familiar with is a model and the source.
00:54.18 IriX64 hah enough of that for now.
00:54.36 IriX64 must revisit jumpdrive.
01:37.20 ``Erik I'd imagine that you must define at least one region with the shader of "light" for photon mapping to work... as... you need a source...
02:36.30 IriX64 Comes out right.
02:37.01 IriX64 time to play with windows archer.
03:18.09 Maloeran Both the guest house and the Monaco hotel are full for that Utah conference, I seriously need to find something before getting there :}
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10:36.04 peterbrett Hey folks, I'm having a bit of trouble getting my environment set up to run brlcad...
10:36.20 clock_ peterbrett: what's the problem?
10:36.40 peterbrett mged says it can't find data resources -- but it's looking in [/home/ptbb2/brlcad//share/brlcad/7.8.3] and that directory exists and contains data...
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16:48.48 IriX64 ValarQ: i showed you mine...
16:56.51 ValarQ IriX64: what?
17:10.25 IriX64 heh we were comparing desktops.
18:11.13 ValarQ yeah, you showed me a couple (never the 8 rightmost pixels thought)
20:22.28 ``Erik ...
20:23.41 ValarQ hello mr Erik
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21:38.55 ``Erik <-- scratches his brain
21:46.24 Maloeran brlcad, any idea where you'll be staying? Monacco and Guest house are full, don't bother trying
21:46.39 brlcad not yet
21:47.39 brlcad i'll figure that bit out tomorrow morning I think
21:48.00 Maloeran I'll be at A there : http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&sll=40.73282,-111.814127&sspn=0.054633,0.107975&q=best+western&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=14&ll=40.756295,-111.86657&spn=0.054614,0.107975
21:48.44 brlcad hmm.. best western, eh..
21:49.30 Maloeran About the only thing reasonably close I could find, just so you don't search too long either, if you want
21:50.09 brlcad not a huge fan of BW but thanks for the tip
21:50.33 Maloeran Oh? I don't have a clue what kind of place this is :)
21:50.47 brlcad i can't really imagine this conference having more than a couple hundred people at best, probably way less
21:51.39 brlcad yeah, best westerns are sort of like shopping at walmart .. just your basic no-frills hotel for most of them
21:53.19 Maloeran I see, I'm not too picky on comfort personally. They got a bed and internet, so... :)
21:54.26 brlcad i'm not picky on the comfort, but I sure do like it when they have a gym, pool, and hot tub somewhere :)
21:54.44 brlcad internet and bed are pretty much a baseline requirement
21:55.42 ``Erik uh
21:55.48 ``Erik you expect internet access at a best western?
21:55.50 ``Erik BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
21:55.51 ``Erik :)
21:56.39 ``Erik (unless they've changed recently)
21:56.44 brlcad ooh, there's a marriott right there
21:57.01 ``Erik searched for bus lines yet, mal?
21:57.03 Maloeran They claimed to have internet on their website anyway
21:57.12 Maloeran I'm pondering bringing a bicycle or not
21:57.40 ``Erik internet in the room? or in a "business center"?
21:58.23 Maloeran No clue. Features : Hot Tub Free Breakfast Dry Cleaning & Laundry Fitness Center/Health Club Pool Room Service High Speed Internet
21:58.54 Maloeran Anyway, I have traveled through France on a bicycle and occasionally sleeping without a bed, I'll survive :)
21:58.57 brlcad that's rather unusual for a best western
22:00.17 brlcad Maloeran: how do you fly with your bike?
22:00.25 brlcad you have a case?
22:00.35 Maloeran I pack it in a cardboard box, the ones they sell bicycles in
22:00.35 ``Erik wow, someone gave them a whole two stars
22:00.43 brlcad heh
22:01.27 Maloeran You are so picky :). And to think that I was almost put off by the "Deluxe Quality Room, Oversized Room", trying to find something more nromal
22:01.30 Maloeran normal, even
22:02.49 ``Erik sorry, I'm used to travelling with business accomodations :) sheratons, etc...
22:03.03 brlcad i don't mind roughing it myself, heck I wouldn't mind pitching a tent -- but when it pertains to business, I'll take the accommodations any day
22:03.09 Maloeran Internet seems to be hotel amenity and not for guest rooms. They provide an alarm clock though!
22:03.14 ``Erik no motel8's and holiday inns
22:03.24 ``Erik uh, I don't want to hear about you pitching a tend, dude
22:03.39 brlcad heh
22:03.41 ``Erik (now if I were going on my own dime, yeah, I'd be going a bit cheaper)
22:03.43 Maloeran A tent and a bicycle is all you need to travel :)
22:03.49 ``Erik I mean, i've slept in cars before **shrug*
22:07.38 Maloeran Well, I suppose I could cancel the reservation if it's as bad as you suggest. Internet doesn't seem to be a guest room feature
22:07.50 Maloeran Do they refund or it's just cancelled? :)
22:10.55 brlcad depends on the hotel and their cancellation policy
22:11.05 ``Erik um, depends on their policy and how early you cancel... like I said earlier, when going to a conference; get a room as soon as possible and ask about their cancellation policy
22:11.23 brlcad i wouldn't cancel it until you have something else, and it really may be fine for you
22:11.37 brlcad i was spoiled on business travel *years* ago
22:11.49 ``Erik well, it'll be a room... I mean, perfectly suitable
22:12.09 ``Erik and if you don't like the specific one you get, you can always ask for another room *shrug*
22:12.15 brlcad heh
22:12.44 brlcad like choosing between mcdonalds and wendys
22:12.51 ``Erik *nod*
22:12.52 Maloeran The apparent lack of internet in guest rooms is puzzling
22:13.45 brlcad if you're under the same reqs, you just have to keep an eye out on per diem rates and what not
22:13.45 ``Erik internet in room is more of an business and better class thing :/
22:14.01 Maloeran "Cancel Policy: Cancel before 4PM hotel time on Sep 16, 2006 to avoid a charge" Okay, no problem there
22:14.28 ``Erik make sure you have board lined up before cancelling, though... if you can't find anything else and it gets taken when you're looking, you'll be screwed..
22:15.02 Maloeran Sure. I'm tempted to trust brlcad's judgement and wisdom in these matters
22:15.53 Maloeran Besides, I suspect he might rent a car which, if you don't mind, could be appreciated by a passenger if possible
22:17.15 brlcad that'll depend on how far away the hotel I get is, so won't know till tomorrow
22:18.09 brlcad if it's within a 15-20 min drive or so, I'd probably just stick to cabs and public transportation
22:18.19 brlcad if it's farther, I'll get a car
22:20.15 Maloeran Right.
22:21.17 Maloeran I always relied on bicycle and don't have a driving license, something fairly rare in the united states it seems
22:21.35 brlcad in general, yeah
22:21.53 brlcad unless you live in a city almost exclusively
22:30.30 ``Erik like, downtown city, not burbland
22:30.45 ``Erik and it depends on the city, heh...
22:32.10 brlcad yeah, and what someone considers a "city" :) pretty much limited to big cities really that have prevalent public transportation
22:32.39 Maloeran Indeed, and Montreal's subway is quite nice
22:33.04 ``Erik lots of "big" cities have almost no public transportation,a nd some small ones do...
22:33.45 ``Erik east coast cities tend to be laid out in a fashion far more viable for not having a car... midwest, southern, and most western ones are not friendly in that regard...
22:34.05 brlcad when I lived in panama city, I would have never needed a car for most trips really.. a $3 cab ride would get you just about *anywhere* and like 40% of the cars on the road were cabs, not to mention the 25 cent buses that went everywhere
22:34.18 ``Erik just make sure it's a real cab? heh
22:34.57 brlcad nah, a lot of them were not "real" .. just some shmoe that slapped a sticker on his car and would charge you a couple bucks to take you somewhere
22:34.59 Maloeran I'm guessing that depends of the local culture Erik ; if I'm not mistaken, many americans see a car as much more than a mean of transportation
22:35.11 Maloeran Something like a social icon to reflect your personality, maybe
22:35.16 ``Erik yeah
22:35.28 ``Erik thus all the effort to dress them up
22:35.33 ``Erik or try to buy a fancy one
22:35.33 ``Erik heh
22:35.34 ``Erik :D
22:35.39 brlcad still totally depends on where you live and where you need to go
22:35.57 Maloeran Which is of course quite unreasonable, right Erik? :)
22:36.01 ``Erik 23" spinner rims and hydrolics are not exactly utilitarian
22:36.13 brlcad people living exclusively in the cities rarely see them as icons imho
22:36.15 ``Erik oh, I bought my car for more than general transportation
22:36.23 ``Erik I wanted the "performance" aspect
22:36.36 ``Erik depends on which part of which city, dude
22:36.48 ``Erik look for, say
22:36.50 brlcad the thing is that 90% of the population doesn't live in the cities, they live in suburbia or on the edges or in the middle of nowhere
22:36.51 ``Erik spinner rims in the ghetto.
22:37.39 Maloeran It was peculiar really, SUVs are rare in Montreal, they were all over the place in Belcamp/Edgewood
22:39.22 ``Erik it's actually a fairly 'green' vehicle... 33mph...
22:39.26 ``Erik mpg, rather
22:41.11 brlcad it's also not really a useful comparison, major city versus some township on the far outskirts of a major city
22:41.35 Maloeran 33 miles per gallon = 14.0297423 kilometers per liter You know, Google really impresses me on that one
22:41.46 brlcad there are too many suv's in the u.s. for certain, but I'd suspect you'll find a similar trend on the outskirts of .ca cities too
22:41.55 ``Erik oddly enough... townships in the sticks are more walkable than many downtown or suburban areas
22:42.21 ``Erik I'm told that if you get away from the cities or border in canuckia, big duallie crew cab trucks are very common
22:42.28 brlcad yay for metrics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area
22:42.36 Maloeran True brlcad, but it's also a matter of culture. European cars of 2 places are very popular in the province of Quebec, and that's the only place in all of North America where they sell any ; there's no market elsewhere
22:42.44 brlcad ahh, didn't know that b'more was separated from dc recently
22:43.05 ``Erik huh? of two places? O.o
22:43.32 brlcad heh, most european cars fail basic standards tests
22:44.07 ``Erik the small ones fail safety tests, and many fail emissions tests... the us is more anal than canuckia...
22:44.15 brlcad little trucks with 12 inch rims that peak out at 55mph, heh
22:44.18 ``Erik like, eurospec m3's were sent to ca, but couldn't be sent to the us :/
22:44.27 Maloeran Yes, I don't know if these cars really are meant for the highways
22:46.41 ``Erik (oddly enough, europe has more stringent front collision requirements... but less with side and rear impact, go figure.... (45mph vs our 35mph))
22:47.36 brlcad hm
22:47.48 brlcad neither of those really help me when I'm doing triple digits on I95
22:47.58 ``Erik hahaha, true
22:48.33 ``Erik 160kph is a bit brisk :)
22:49.51 Maloeran Definitely not an energy efficient speed :), on top of being illegal and a few other details
22:50.04 ``Erik um, depends on where
22:50.09 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore-Washington_Metropolitan_Area hmm 8M
22:50.29 ``Erik many roads in the world have no top speed limit, including a few in the US
22:51.01 ``Erik colorado, I think, doesn't have daytime upper speed limits on some roads?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060915

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060915

00:44.14 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@adsl-68-126-0-210.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)
03:48.59 Maloeran That was sad, meeting a man of ~50y obsessed with chess in a cafe, carrying books filled with notes and knowing openings and styles in depth. I feel bad for beating him 3 times in a row
03:54.44 IriX64 nytol :)
04:17.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): do as the comment suggests and move the htester.c test application that exercises the host to network floating point functions from libbn to libbu
04:23.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: enable compilation of htester, not installed though
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15:54.01 brlcad Maloeran: there are rooms available at the University Guest House
15:54.17 brlcad you have to ask for the "Ray Tracing Conference"
15:55.26 Maloeran Ah!... That's not exactly the answer I got from their online form
15:55.30 Maloeran You called?
16:02.06 Maloeran I'm guessing the rooms are specifically reserved for the Ray-tracing conference, so one must ask for it specifically by phone
16:26.30 brlcad most hotels aren't set up well for on-line registration, especially for business travel and conferences or most any special accommodations
16:42.59 Maloeran So I realize. Thanks
16:43.13 ``Erik heh
16:44.11 Maloeran Erik, http://mcarp.earthstorm.com/reel/rotter-lowe/index.php?showimage=rotter-lowe-056.jpg&screenwidth=1600
16:44.35 Maloeran Looks like the exterior will be completed soon
16:45.07 brlcad woot, all registered and taken care of now
16:46.11 ``Erik swank
16:48.05 ``Erik http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/venue.html#bars w00t
16:48.52 brlcad almost picked the monaco because of that :)
16:49.01 brlcad where you staying at ``Erik ?
16:49.07 ``Erik guest house
16:49.09 ``Erik lee is, too
16:50.54 ``Erik <-- shoulda given you our flight info, heh
16:53.09 Maloeran It's going to be a 14 hours flight with 2 stops for me, fun :)
16:53.59 Maloeran I'll arrive in the night of 16 to 17 too, I don't feel like arriving at 3h in the morning after 14 hours of travel to sleep 3 hours before a conference
16:55.51 ``Erik heh, my 5 hr nonstop flight looks postiively thrilling compared to that :)
16:58.25 Maloeran PHL->SLC? Lucky
17:03.03 ``Erik bwi->slc, actually
17:03.27 Maloeran I am impressed
17:03.54 Maloeran Montreal -> Philadelphia -> Las Vegas -> Salt Lake City
17:04.02 ``Erik heh
17:04.16 ``Erik <-- stepped back and let an expert figure out his travel *shrug*
17:04.18 Maloeran A 5 hours wait at Las Vegas, I might have time to look around
17:04.52 ``Erik security in us airports is a long painful process...
17:06.02 Maloeran I know that. I don't think I told you that they took my bicycle out of its box last time, put it back all wrong ( the cardbord box had non-planar surfaces ), and covered it with tape "Inspected by the department of homeland security"
17:06.27 Maloeran There's no damage though
17:11.42 ``Erik "ask for a goldfish" O.o
17:12.13 ``Erik that's right, you flew out of bwi... heh
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17:12.27 ``Erik I'm not sure how easy it is to leave the airport and get back in during a layover :/
17:12.51 Maloeran I didn't fly out of bwi on that day :)
17:12.56 ``Erik many many years ago, it was a simple matter, people left to airport all the time to sightsee or visit friends :/
17:13.08 ``Erik oh? philly?
17:13.15 Maloeran The plane was delayed, I was going to miss the next one, so they sent me to Dulles but my luggage went to Philadelphia without me
17:13.25 ``Erik heh
17:13.26 Maloeran Then my cab had battery problems on the way...
17:13.31 ``Erik sweet
17:13.34 ``Erik I'd not heard this
17:13.49 Maloeran I shared the details in #siggraph the following day, not a pleasant experience :)
17:14.11 Maloeran I arrived in Montreal 16 hours later without my luggage
17:14.55 Maloeran 16 hours after I arrived 5 hours early at the airport anyway
17:23.03 brlcad arriving on the 16th? that'd be cool, considered it
17:23.17 brlcad but why not 17th? no flights?
17:23.40 Maloeran The only way I could arrive on the 17th would be at 3h in the morning of the 18th
17:24.07 Maloeran All the flight options took over 12 hours for me
17:24.26 brlcad hmmm
17:27.37 brlcad wow, so it is.. not many flights from ymq or yul
17:29.07 brlcad one nice thing about the area here, bwi is a major route for most and if that doesn't work there's dulles and reagan airports in DC
17:30.36 Maloeran Oh? I seem to always have to go through phl to reach bwi from Montreal
17:34.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: calloc needed to provide initialization of unused/unset bot parameters (i.e. normals)
17:36.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: copy the color table from input to output, so colors render properly in converted file
18:41.05 ``Erik yeah, canada sucks
18:41.08 ``Erik "america jr" :D
18:42.16 ``Erik syrup :)
18:42.35 Maloeran I reserved at the guest house from the 16th to 18th, I'll have to find something else for the following days... or hopefully someone will cancel to free a room
18:42.53 ``Erik are you on the waiting list for 19/20 ?
18:43.26 Maloeran Hum, no?
18:43.34 Maloeran At least I don't think so
18:45.34 ``Erik perhaps tomorrow you should ask
18:45.40 ``Erik you're flying out tonight?
18:47.12 Maloeran Tomorrow morning
18:47.45 Maloeran Arriving in the night from 16 to 17, at 3 am
18:51.41 Maloeran 75 people for the conference? Now that's low
18:52.25 brlcad roughly what I would have expected for this being first year and all
18:53.00 brlcad most of the acm symposiums are not much bigger really, siggraph is the main "enormous" one
18:53.35 brlcad also being the general distinction between the symposiums and conferences, the prior being smaller
18:57.03 ``Erik ah ha, a calendar on acm.org
18:57.04 ``Erik *read*
18:57.22 ``Erik oh, nice... 9/18/06-9/20/05 ...
18:58.09 Maloeran Something tells me it's going to be difficult to attend that one
18:58.42 ``Erik ah, they call their good confs "pldi" and "popl"
19:12.38 Maloeran I'm still dreaming of tackling raytracing hardware with whoever will be interested, Prasad sure seemed to be
19:40.24 Maloeran Question : Why would CVS list about every file of a project as "Modified files" when commiting, while many definitely haven't been touched at all?
19:40.37 Maloeran Does it rely on the time stamp?
19:41.50 brlcad if they're marked as M then they are somehow different, likely whitespace might have changed
19:42.19 brlcad cvs diff one of the files
19:43.00 brlcad if cvs diff -b -B shows nothing, then something is changing the whitespace in the file
19:43.03 Maloeran Doesn't print anything on stdout for these files
19:44.23 Maloeran I copied the whole dir on laptop and back to work at a cafe, it's the only unusual event I can think of
19:44.42 ``Erik heh, the timestamps would throw a M
19:45.07 Maloeran Any way to prevent this? No big deal, but that isn't too pretty in the logs
19:45.38 brlcad hm, i haven't seen timestamps cause that kind of problem in years, though all my machines are timesynced these days too
19:45.57 ``Erik if you're sure everything is all good, "cvs -z3 update -ACPdr" might do it?
19:46.13 ``Erik you also don't go around arbitrarily "touch"ing files, right, sean? ;)
19:46.21 ``Erik oops
19:46.24 ``Erik cvs -z3 update -ACPdR
19:46.30 brlcad actually I do sometimes, to affect how it builds
19:46.40 brlcad and that still doesn't screw with cvsage
19:46.44 Maloeran What would that do? Just making sure that won't remove hours of work or anything.. :)
19:46.45 ``Erik cvs backed files?
19:47.08 ``Erik it'll force a total checkout, and create a lot of (hopefully identical) .# files
19:47.28 Maloeran I copied the directory by scp so time stamps are of course all off
19:47.31 Maloeran No way to rely on diff and just ignore time stamps?
19:47.39 ``Erik hrmmm
19:47.48 ``Erik I just touched a file to fuck the timestamp and tried an update, no M on it
19:47.52 ``Erik guess my guess was wrong :/
19:48.05 ``Erik cvs diff it, dude *shrug* :)
19:48.35 brlcad does one of the systems use a different EOL?
19:48.44 Maloeran No, the files are identical
19:48.53 brlcad not the file, the system
19:49.05 Maloeran Both Linux
19:49.10 Maloeran Even files of 0 bytes are identified as modified
19:49.26 brlcad what does cvs status say?
19:49.32 brlcad and what version of cvs are you using?
19:49.46 Maloeran 1.12.11
19:50.20 brlcad cvs status somefile
19:50.28 brlcad does it say "locally modified"?
19:50.34 Maloeran cvs status is eating some bandwidth, working on the binary models surely
19:50.48 brlcad another possibility is that your CVS dirs are horked somehow
19:51.06 Maloeran Status: Up-to-date
19:51.12 brlcad like if you copied files from one system to another, but didn't copy the corresponding CVS dirs
19:51.32 brlcad heh, that's not M then
19:51.34 Maloeran I really copied everything, scp -r
19:51.36 brlcad cvs update again
19:51.41 Maloeran cvs commit disagrees :)
19:51.52 brlcad you have to update before a commit
19:52.27 brlcad it'll say M on an update if you receive a modification as well
19:52.43 brlcad so you do it twice and it'll say M the first time but not the second
19:53.19 Maloeran Right, I didn't update as I'm the only one working on this
19:55.06 Maloeran Thanks Shawn and Erik
19:55.50 Maloeran Oops :)
19:55.58 brlcad spells the right one wrong and the wrong one right ;)
19:58.45 ``Erik wow, I'm retarded
19:59.18 brlcad and that's the power of positive thinking
19:59.59 ``Erik missing break; in a switch, heh
20:00.04 ``Erik hurrrrrrr *drool*
20:02.32 Maloeran Eheh
20:23.20 Maloeran You use int80? :) That's unexpected
20:41.04 ``Erik well
20:41.17 ``Erik I'm writing a compiler for a turing tarpit language to do some theory crap with
20:41.24 ``Erik and I have the frontend all buttoned up
20:41.43 ``Erik and I have a modular optimizer... and a backend that produces C code
20:41.55 ``Erik now I'm working on one that produces ia32 code (fbsd)
20:41.59 ``Erik well
20:42.06 ``Erik ia32 at&t asm, for as(1)
20:42.13 ``Erik then I'll do one that generates machine code, I suppose
20:42.35 Maloeran Oh, just rely on as, assembly encoding is a mess
20:42.47 ``Erik um, I know, I've done it before
20:43.03 ``Erik wrote (most of) an x86 assembler before, too
20:44.14 Maloeran And I did abundant self-modifying code and procedurally generated opcodes in my younger days
20:44.22 ``Erik (just cuz I don't think asm is good for app programming doesn't mean I don't know how to use it or never use it..)
20:44.26 ``Erik hehehe, I did those on the c64's
20:44.27 ``Erik fun stuff
20:45.00 Maloeran :) I spent months working on the Warcraft 2 executable and data files in order to tweak the game
20:45.51 ``Erik ooh, license violations, ... :D
20:46.20 Maloeran Oh hum, oops? :) That sure was long ago
20:47.14 ``Erik in the name of education
22:19.23 *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-69-250-146-28.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:52.36 ``Erik bah, my label table is not quite right
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060916

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060916

00:37.07 IriX64 A A' :)
00:37.49 IriX64 forget how to switch them though and they say a different part of the anatomy is the first to go.:)
00:38.46 IriX64 still got the book, programming for the Z80 :)
00:45.16 IriX64 so lets see, byte 0 , byte 1 ... byte 512 thats sector 1 then immediatly followed by sector 2 ... to 1024 sectors, then and so on to 256 megs and ive got a portable floppy disk commonly called a jump drive. right?
00:45.42 IriX64 left out track but it's implied.
00:46.07 IriX64 fat is appropriate.
00:46.20 IriX64 fat32 can be supported.
00:46.30 IriX64 somebody check me.
01:06.26 IriX64 where do i find #devicedriverwriters :)
01:16.58 Maloeran Efnet's #kernel for Linux driver development, I'm sure there's something on freenode too
01:18.11 brlcad same channel
01:27.10 brlcad heh
01:27.40 Twingy sean, I'm gonna make a bike that generates energy back into the grid
01:28.09 Twingy it'll generate like 2 cents an hour :}
01:29.11 brlcad heh, would make for a nice business venture for health clubs
01:29.18 Twingy hehe
01:30.03 Twingy heh
01:30.15 Twingy only $10k in equipment
01:30.25 Maloeran I'll only need 250 hours at 200 watt to risk exceeding that 5$ gift limit the next time I drop by
01:30.34 Twingy haha
01:31.09 Twingy I think I will need to make it an energy capture machine
01:31.26 Twingy because at < 175W it doesn't do anything
01:31.34 Twingy rerun
01:36.14 brlcad er, don't think this is a rerun -- at least i haven't seen it
01:36.44 brlcad and it just referred to the new episode from two weeks about about takara getting blown up
01:37.35 Twingy ah
01:37.41 Twingy well, I'll watch it in 2 hours
01:37.47 Twingy comes on at 11 again
01:42.16 brlcad the allucian alliance thanks you
01:49.34 *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:04.59 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (150 files): Doxygen updates
02:24.54 IriX64 you picked a fyne tyme to leave me lucille ;)
02:26.51 IriX64 sigh , I can hear the flapping of wings, but the song eludes me. :)
03:11.18 Maloeran Erik, question : would it be of any value for ray-tracing nodes to be able to join and depart the work network at any time?
03:12.33 ``Erik I think so
03:13.11 Maloeran Okay, that's what I initially had in mind. Still planning chunks of distributed preparation and synchronisation
03:17.49 Maloeran To translate fully built graphs from pointers back into indices for newly joined nodes is rather akward
05:33.42 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: Doxygen updates for librt
07:29.52 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-219.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:00.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: rework the noprod logic for issue encountered on netbsd on vax where the shell is invoking with a different precedence on &&/||, so be more explicit
11:23.15 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
14:59.13 ``Erik see ya in utah, dude
15:07.12 brlcad wooh hooo! got benchmark working under vax finally
15:07.33 brlcad stupid libm bug
15:07.45 brlcad yeah, see ya Maloeran .. happy trails
15:31.38 ``Erik nifty
15:31.45 ``Erik and how many vgr's is a vgr?
15:47.29 brlcad eh, don't know that yet.. still running the benchmark :)
15:48.08 brlcad it's on 3 of 6 and been going for about an hour
15:48.59 brlcad it's down to just a few hundred rays per sec though, so it should be interesting
15:49.57 brlcad this isn't an optimized build yet either, so technically it could be even slower than 1 vgr if the originals were optimized (which I don't know if they were or not)
15:50.45 brlcad though it certainly seems to feel like it's in the 0 to 10 vgr range
15:52.21 brlcad spent *hours* last night debugging trying to figure out why it was crashing, stack would hose after calling atan2() and gdb would infinite loop up on certain prints of floats
15:53.15 brlcad then spent hours relinking with a static libm just to make testing a little easier, and the problem was solved -- had to hack up libbn a little for vax floating point, but it's all good now
16:22.36 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:48.03 ``Erik O.o
17:53.47 brlcad Summary:
17:53.47 brlcad Abs unknown 1198.23 432.80 371.64 346.31 639.24 642.15 605.06 Fri Sep 15 09:06:11 EDT 2006
17:53.50 brlcad *vgr unknown 8.74 6.45 6.62 6.49 9.04 .04 6.23
17:54.35 brlcad not to shabby.. i think it is throttled, just perhaps throttled to a faster vax than vgr used to be (which I can probably tweak via simh settings)
17:56.34 brlcad also exposes a problem in the m35 reference image I think.. it still had the usual 74 off by 1 (though also 3 off by many)
17:57.31 brlcad have to check the logs but i'm guessing someone uploaded a new ref image, keeping the same performance log, causing the continued off-by-1 numbers everywhere
18:26.02 ``Erik <-- not so good at reading vgr accounts, mostly looks for the stuff in the -=-=-=
18:30.24 ``Erik maybe you should run a really old version (like, the version our vgr's are based off of) to tune the vm, changes in the code may have improved efficiency...
18:30.24 ``Erik :)
18:43.27 brlcad vgr is the last number on the vgr line, 6.23
18:43.44 brlcad it's an average of the individual runs, which preceed it
18:43.57 brlcad line before it is the same, but with rtfm counts
18:44.45 brlcad i was thinking the same regarding improvements, that could very well explain the variations too if there were, say optimizations to the sphere shot routine
18:45.00 brlcad checking to see if kermit can pull up some old binaries even
18:45.17 brlcad though i really dont' want to install 4.3 bsd..
18:51.44 ``Erik um, compile old source on it?
18:51.56 ``Erik maybe hack the simh config to make it like a 1ghz vax for the compile? hehehe
18:52.50 brlcad still trying to find out if simh is clock synced
18:52.58 brlcad or even settable
19:20.24 ``Erik it's written in C... you have the source code... it's all settable. :D
19:28.45 brlcad heh
19:28.51 brlcad actually i've gotten some more info
19:29.27 brlcad it's simulating a microvax II (1985), not a vax 11/780 (1979)
19:29.43 brlcad i'm having trouble booting up the 11/780 simulator, but giving it a go
19:30.25 brlcad someone who seems to be in the know in classiccmp seems to think it's not throttled, just happens to run about that slow
19:41.20 ``Erik eck
19:41.55 ``Erik what's cpu load when it's chunking?
19:42.00 brlcad not sure i believe him though -- it's too close
19:42.10 brlcad it's full cpu, single threaded
19:42.26 ``Erik huh, if it's burning a full core, maybe it just IS that slow :/
19:42.38 brlcad it's full cpu even if it's idle
19:42.50 ``Erik busywait :/
19:43.30 brlcad heh, http://www.openbsd.org/images/vax.jpg
19:43.51 ``Erik hahahaa
19:49.07 ``Erik amusing, I look for a pic of an 11/780 and it takes me to ftp.arl.mil
19:50.52 IriX64 thats a hell of a hot vax. :)
19:53.18 IriX64 simh eh? lets try.
19:58.15 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056792.dsl.bell.ca)
19:58.44 IriX64_ was asking, what are you benchmarking the simulated machine with brlcad?
20:02.37 IriX64 :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060917

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060917

02:05.36 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:30.36 brlcad pretty incredible
02:31.46 dtidrow why is that?
02:32.47 brlcad the announcement about lilo
02:33.10 brlcad worked with him quite a bit over the years
02:33.19 dtidrow ah
02:33.42 dtidrow kinda reminds me of when Mike passed away
02:33.56 brlcad extensive discussions about the pdpc, cloaks, the network, etc
02:34.28 brlcad yeah, kinda if only because of the unexpected nature
02:34.40 dtidrow inded
02:35.13 brlcad though not in the least bit the same personalities, talent, etc
02:35.47 brlcad still a sad occurance
02:36.54 brlcad i think Freenode's done more in support of open source than anything else, fostering development and communications
02:37.25 PrezKennedy im using my mod points to put the smackdown on some jackasses commenting about it on slashdot
02:38.11 PrezKennedy im so apathetic about them... im like... eh ive got mod points... now i have to find something to mod
03:30.24 Maloeran Amazing, they got both power outlets and wireless access at the Las Vegas airport
03:31.24 Maloeran A fairly strange place too.
03:34.08 Maloeran What happened to lilo? googling
03:36.52 Maloeran Woah! Okay, I just noticed the messages about lilo
03:42.08 Twingy silly people not wearing their helmets
03:44.55 Maloeran It really depends where you ride... but I can't imagine Huston, Texas to be very friendly to bicycles
03:47.13 Twingy I am really leaning toward an electric bike
03:47.27 Twingy will be more than a year before I can afford though
03:48.21 Maloeran Oh? Well, you could begin with a standard bicycle
03:48.53 Maloeran Even if it's just to replace your runs at first, I think it might be more pleasant
03:49.30 Maloeran And you'll be able to join Lee on his saturday morning rides :}
03:55.05 Twingy what do you think the probability of me choosing to spend my time riding with Lee on saturday mornings is :)
03:57.00 Maloeran Who knows, you might fall in love with bicycle riding once you try and reject all your previous hobbies :)
03:58.23 Twingy ...and I might also discover how to put a rocket in space with a table spoon of sugar
03:58.55 dtidrow well, with the right mix of potassium perchlorate..... ;-)
03:59.19 Twingy btw, I used to ride my bike 7 miles back and forth to work for a couple years
04:00.33 Maloeran Oh, good
04:01.42 Twingy 15 - 17 before I got a suzuki
04:02.50 Maloeran The battery on my laptop seems quite poor. It might be related to the acpi governor apparently not working so the frequency remains at 1.8ghz
04:03.14 Maloeran Any suggestion on some kind of battery I could carry in my back pack, for hours of use? :) Even if it must weight 10kg
04:04.26 Maloeran At the moment, I can get a whole 75 minutes or so
04:04.30 Twingy COTS or custom?
04:05.05 Twingy what's the voltage of your battery
04:05.23 Maloeran COTS?
04:05.28 Twingy commercial off the shelf
04:05.37 Maloeran 14400mV
04:05.44 Maloeran 2000mAh design capacity
04:05.46 Twingy 14.4V
04:05.51 Twingy 2Ah
04:05.56 Twingy what about the DC input
04:06.01 Twingy (charger)
04:06.03 Maloeran Already down to 1853mAh maximum after two full discharges
04:06.24 Twingy what's the specs on the charger
04:06.34 Twingy 18V @ 3A?
04:06.54 Maloeran 19V @ 3.4A
04:06.59 Twingy k
04:07.58 Maloeran A big heavy battery in the back pack to last 10 hours would be great
04:08.03 Twingy http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=986
04:08.18 Twingy that'll double your juice
04:09.17 Twingy ~1.25kg
04:09.28 Twingy 1.5kg
04:09.43 Maloeran Interesting
04:09.53 Twingy good for 1,000 charges
04:10.10 Maloeran Is there anything massive for hours of use without worry?
04:10.10 Twingy and cheap
04:10.15 Twingy um
04:10.18 Twingy let me figure something ou
04:10.50 Maloeran Something to plug the laptop in as if it were a power outlet, I am guessing
04:14.10 Twingy I could easily make you anything
04:14.20 Twingy but nothing I can see off the shelf
04:14.45 Maloeran Right, I see. That could be an interesting little project
04:15.08 Twingy if you want, paypal me 110% the cost of the materials and shipping and its yours
04:15.17 Maloeran Turn my back pack into one massive laptop battery that will prevent me of getting through any airport security
04:15.29 Twingy nah
04:16.17 dtidrow Maloeran: "Is there anything massive for hours of use without worry?" - probably a small generator would be the best bet
04:16.52 Maloeran Generating the electricity from what? I don't see anything else than batteries being practical...
04:18.37 Twingy you could go fuel cell, but you'll spend a small fortune
04:18.49 Twingy cause the hydrogen generator and compressor aint cheap
04:19.15 Maloeran Fuel cells are forbidden on airplanes now
04:19.40 Twingy I so go with that kit I just pasted
04:19.42 Twingy *say
04:19.44 Twingy $50
04:19.50 Twingy and you double your life
04:19.50 Maloeran Yes, it's surely an improvement
04:20.02 Twingy that's what I would get
04:20.18 Maloeran *nods* Thanks for the tip
04:20.39 Twingy order two if you want more
04:20.56 Twingy you can always wire them in parallel if you have the adapters and heat shrink
04:21.05 Maloeran Or just swap once in a while
04:21.11 Twingy yep
04:21.21 Twingy I mean I can build you one that'll keep it powered for 10 hours
04:21.26 Twingy but it'll cost you like $250
04:21.34 Twingy and weigh like 10kg
04:21.37 Twingy err 5k
04:21.39 Twingy 5kg
04:21.48 Maloeran If it goes through airports, that's not too bad
04:22.11 Twingy but why not just switch a battery every 90 minutes
04:22.17 Maloeran Right.
04:22.22 Twingy surely it's not that much of an interruption
04:22.28 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168054869.dsl.bell.ca)
04:22.29 Twingy I get up and stretch more often than that
04:23.04 Twingy there's always a hand crank that charges a battery
04:23.10 Maloeran Argh! *sobs* I don't see how the noise of slot machines is not driving anyone crazy, I'm almost tempted to put up the volume of my Brahms
04:23.18 dtidrow or solar cells
04:23.29 Twingy solar is not practical
04:23.33 Twingy I always bring head phones
04:23.39 brlcad heh
04:23.45 brlcad Maloeran: in the airport now?
04:23.50 dtidrow more than a hand crank
04:23.56 Maloeran Yes, waiting 5 hours at Las Vegas
04:24.12 brlcad yeesh
04:24.19 brlcad have fun
04:24.26 Twingy go play some slots :}
04:24.30 brlcad heh
04:24.37 IriX64 *don't lose :)
04:24.43 Twingy see if you can write some code to beat it
04:24.57 Maloeran I'm statistically losing, you'll never see me put a quarter in those things :)
04:25.00 brlcad or find a hammer to beat it
04:25.22 Maloeran The only such game I'll ever play is Poker Texas Hold'em with my AI to.. pretty much decide everything
04:25.26 Twingy anything is better than this mostly dead 9.6V
04:25.34 IriX64 if you don't play you win :)
04:25.52 Twingy if you don't play you don't get free meal comps
04:26.11 IriX64 free?
04:26.12 brlcad I'm statistically dying, but you don't see me not breathing from time to time ;)
04:27.02 dtidrow http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/12728/cid/3399
04:27.12 dtidrow only 50lb ;-)
04:27.42 Maloeran <brlcad> I'm statistically dying, but you don't see me not breathing from time to time ;)
04:27.49 Maloeran Oops
04:28.07 Maloeran Trying to copy/paste urls with that a mousepad, not a pleasant task
04:28.19 brlcad dtidrow: that's not a bad price either
04:28.52 brlcad Maloeran: well, i think you got the paste part down at least ;)
04:29.12 dtidrow brlcad: indeed
04:29.14 Maloeran It's curious, it seems to "unlick" after 1 second which gives little time to select anything properly
04:30.01 dtidrow brlcad: and only slightly heavier than that alienware 'laptop' I carted around siggraph this year ;-)
04:30.02 brlcad i hate it when things unlick
04:30.57 Maloeran When are you arriving, Sean, and Erik and Lee if you know?
04:31.24 dtidrow you guys all going to a conference?
04:31.33 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168054869.dsl.bell.ca)
04:32.00 Maloeran Some of us are, yes
04:32.23 dtidrow what's the conference?
04:32.52 Maloeran Some ray-tracing thing in Salt Lake City for 3 days
04:33.20 dtidrow ah, that one - I remember you guys talking about it last month
04:33.27 dtidrow have fun :-)
04:33.57 Twingy ray-tracing, hah, that'll never catch on
04:34.05 brlcad Maloeran: I arrive mid-day
04:34.20 brlcad dtidrow: http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html
04:34.47 dtidrow yeah, I looked at it last time you posted the link :-)
04:34.47 Maloeran Nice, better choice than my 2 a.m. local, or 4 am for my biological clock
04:35.23 brlcad i'm supposed to wake up in 4 hours for my flight, flying west is always .. a trip
04:36.36 Maloeran Neat
04:36.43 ``Erik heh
04:37.07 ``Erik the rooms have mini-fridges
04:37.26 Maloeran When do you arrive, Erik?
04:37.35 ``Erik like 5pm mst
04:37.37 IriX64 nice page... you people must be excited about it.
04:37.59 ``Erik sharing transportation with lee
04:38.05 Maloeran Not excited at all, no :), I would rather have stayed home to code
04:38.23 ``Erik I might try to get him to stop by a package shop on the way
04:38.40 IriX64 Malorean: duty calls thing I assume or "told" to go?
04:38.46 dtidrow gotta go check on the baby and get some sleep - 'nite all...
04:38.59 IriX64 err spelt it wrong.
04:39.08 Maloeran Technically, I could refuse as a consultant I imagine, that didn't seem very polite though
04:39.20 IriX64 hah true.
04:40.02 Twingy hrm
04:40.10 Twingy I want this $110 sliding table for my drill press :|
04:40.19 Maloeran Okay, having a walk elsewhere before the slot machine noise destroys what remains of my sanity, see you later or tomorrow
04:40.31 IriX64 ciao
04:40.36 Twingy you should record some of that :)
04:40.40 Twingy you can use it for your alarm clock
04:40.52 Maloeran Ahaha :)
04:42.31 Twingy and a 6" vice
04:42.48 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
04:43.12 *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:44.06 Twingy and a small swivel vise
04:49.54 IriX64 a swise :)
04:56.45 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@adsl-68-126-0-210.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)
06:29.25 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
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15:26.53 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
19:13.08 Maloeran It was not even music, it was a random sequence of notes every time someone pressed some button, and there were 8-12 overlapping sources of such noise
20:08.42 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:09.26 PrezKennedy heres a great question i got from a friend "who still uses IRC?"
20:10.28 Maloeran No living being, we are the wandering souls of former geeks
20:12.48 PrezKennedy does this mean im dead?
20:14.45 Maloeran It depends, some of us are also artifical intelligences stuck on pursuing our task of providing social interactions for our lost masters forever
21:11.27 Maloeran Is anyone at Salt Lake city yet? :) My room number is 239 if you want to meet today
23:20.23 *** join/#brlcad LLSLouie (n=Louie@rc-190.blueridge.net)
23:27.54 Maloeran That's a hilly ride, many mountains and canyons in the way, but I trust your path-finding algorithms can overcome such obstacles
23:57.44 Twingy indeed
23:58.18 Twingy I need some stuff from digikey
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060918

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060918

00:07.06 Maloeran I think what I dislike most in a completely new environment is finding where to get good food and how to get there, without a bicycle
00:17.28 Twingy order a pizza
00:26.45 Maloeran Or hopefully, they might eventually arrive to dine somewhere together
00:27.46 Maloeran There they are!
01:07.48 Maloeran Saw them arriving but no contact yet. Oh well, food time
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03:37.58 Maloeran Ah there you are :)
03:39.26 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/forms.h: We no longer use forms
03:40.15 Maloeran Eh, Lee is back at work
03:42.44 Maloeran Erik, where's your comics.php page again?
04:33.13 Twingy designing a cheap 'black box' to provide the appropriate voltage and current to the xantrex gt2.5 is rather challenging
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05:24.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (70 files): Doxygen updates
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09:37.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: forms.h was removed, apparently unused
09:39.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): automatically detect a slew of script types by looking at the first line of the file -- if the /bin/* is recognizable, then the file doesn't need a suffix after all.
09:40.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: case consistency
09:43.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: file name is just archer, not archer.sh
09:46.55 brlcad oop, sry Maloeran .. didn't bother hopping back on until now, in 109
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12:51.23 ``Erik mal: math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php
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23:26.10 Maloeran It sure feels weird to apparently be the only one using something else than kdtrees, bhv and grids at that conference
23:33.00 ``Erik that's why you'll be presenting at the next one ;)
23:36.27 Maloeran Ow, I'm not too comfortable with that :). I'm curious, someone had mentionned precalculated triangles that are faster but less suitable for dynamic geometry
23:37.05 Maloeran My ray-triangle test obviously is based on a precalculated form, so maybe it is known after all
23:38.58 ``Erik probably **shrug8
23:55.07 brlcad a quick search through acm, ieee, and jgt would likely tell you that pretty quickly I'd imagine
23:56.43 brlcad still, even if it was tried, I doubt it was anytime recently and probably not using all the other current techniques of coherency, simd parallelism, etc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060919

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060919

00:01.41 Maloeran Right, it at least doesn't seen very popular these days. We probably should sit down and go over these techniques soon enough...
00:02.00 Maloeran doesn't seem, rather
00:18.40 PrezKennedy brrrr cold day in hell today
00:18.53 PrezKennedy giving someone programming lessons for FREE
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03:17.07 Maloeran Ahah. Might be old news for some, but China's peacekeeping forces in Afghanistan are of one policeman since 2004
03:22.08 ``Erik yargh, mateys, shiver me timbers
03:23.05 Maloeran I'm tempted to rather blame the beer, you sure drank a lot...
03:23.27 ``Erik heh
03:23.59 ``Erik it contributed, but not the root cause
03:25.40 Maloeran Yes perhaps so, you could try lighter food sometimes too, salads can be quite good
03:25.42 DTRemenak there is a (short) border between afghanistan and china
03:25.50 Maloeran Eh well, one policeman, I think that's fairly symbolic
03:25.57 DTRemenak why not have a policeman sit on it? :)
03:27.08 Maloeran Feeling good enough to have a look at RF/graph.c, Erik? :)
03:27.20 ``Erik sure
03:27.24 ``Erik actually, I'm feelign dandy now
03:27.39 ``Erik I took a racehorse leak and felt MUCH better, heh, lack of abdominal pressure.
03:27.57 Maloeran Definitely too much beer :), this stuff takes volume
03:28.46 ``Erik ok, my checkout is old, I don't have that file...
03:28.50 ``Erik trying to update...
03:29.22 ``Erik rebuilding
03:29.32 ``Erik lee was wondering if we should group and do a walkthrough this evening
03:29.49 Maloeran Oh, would be fine with me
03:30.31 ``Erik he also noted that he would like a chance to read through, before, however *shrug*
03:31.03 Maloeran I feel like I have started working on this stuff two whole years ago, and I never shared anything on it besides some early details with Justin
03:32.11 ``Erik "graphTraceDualIn()" I presume?
03:32.19 Maloeran Sure that will do
03:34.40 ``Erik ermmmmm, whoa, wait, I was way off on names, heh
03:34.46 ``Erik it's jakko that did the series of articles
03:34.48 ``Erik my bad
03:36.06 ``Erik http://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml
03:36.48 ``Erik http://www.devmaster.net/articles/graphics_alg/ section 3.4
03:38.16 ``Erik havoc, shit, that's the gtk/gnome/metacity dude, heh, hurrrr
03:41.08 Maloeran It's a bit different in the worlds of rasterization and ray-tracing still
03:44.20 ``Erik *nod*
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04:16.33 Maloeran I guess we'll rather do a walkthrough tomorrow or the next day
04:18.17 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.VAX: add an initial README for VAX given a compile does seem to still be possible via simh. provide the details on what has to be done.
04:18.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add README.VAX
04:19.27 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.AIX: add initial details about how much of a pain it is to compiled with the IBM Visual Age compiler on AIX, but that it is possible.
04:20.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.BSD: refer to README.VAX for getting BSD running on the VAX platform, mention that BRL-CAD is in the FreeBSD ports system.
04:21.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (README.Linux README.MacOSX README.Solaris README.Windows): add title header
04:29.24 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/.cvsignore: ignore the new noinst htester
05:04.33 Twingy oops, too late
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06:24.34 Twingy done!
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17:29.48 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS TODO): speling
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17:52.00 IriX64 driver turned out better than i hoped :)
17:53.55 IriX64 fat32 works... yay.
17:55.23 IriX64 haha meantime brlcad compiles away in cygwin, sweet.
17:56.29 IriX64 ValarQ: you think gentoo is nice? you should see XP+ :)
18:00.45 ValarQ whats XP+ ?
18:06.51 IriX64 *my windows xp professional :)
18:08.38 IriX64 60 gig partition limit? get real.
18:09.16 IriX64 partition too.
18:10.43 ValarQ i got a 500GB partition
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18:10.59 ValarQ 3 250GB disks :)
18:11.04 IriX64 mine is all one disk.
18:11.19 IriX64 err that should be 750 then.
18:11.27 ValarQ oh, wait, 200GB disks 400GB total in this machine
18:12.11 ValarQ sata with raid5 :)
18:12.15 IriX64 ermf. math wiz :)
18:12.41 IriX64 brb gotta let the dog out.
18:18.14 IriX64 back
18:18.21 IriX64 where were we?
18:18.37 IriX64 comparing shiny toys :)
18:19.01 IriX64 mines a maxtor py200 ValarQ whats yours?
18:22.08 ValarQ Maxtor 6L200M0
18:22.36 IriX64 very recent model right?
18:23.07 IriX64 have a laugh do a /ver on me. :)
18:23.42 IriX64 freshly compiled and perl works.
18:23.56 ValarQ cygwin :/
18:24.05 IriX64 yes funny eh?
18:24.24 ValarQ nah, mostly tragic
18:24.34 IriX64 i call it unix high on windows. :)
18:24.58 IriX64 tragic? you fel sorry for me ?:)
18:25.04 IriX64 feel too.
18:25.30 IriX64 ValarQ: It runs brlcad.
18:26.03 IriX64 errr compiles and runs it.
18:26.53 IriX64 GNU is underrated.
18:29.04 IriX64 6.0 however installed.
18:31.15 IriX64 got warp4 installed on it now but for some reason it's slow as molasses.
18:33.18 IriX64 well gotta warm up photoshop again ;)
18:33.25 IriX64 see you soon.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060920

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060920

04:09.54 brlcad hmm, that was
04:10.11 brlcad a bit slowly
04:10.23 brlcad presented for my taste
04:10.31 brlcad arrr
04:26.38 Maloeran Yes, the guy didn't seem very fast
04:26.57 Maloeran But he actually picked my curiosity. As far as I can see, you can not have continuity with bezier triangles
04:29.25 Maloeran Unless of course the two triangles have the same size exactly, which is... not very practical
04:30.26 Maloeran I need to look over my curved facets again, it has been like an year since I wrote that and got attracted by more shiny problems
04:47.32 brlcad it's an interesting problem, but seems like a rather limited utility domain
04:48.14 Maloeran Not if the continuity is preserved for any mesh of triangles, if it's flexible and fast
04:48.17 brlcad i mean perhaps if it were ubiquitous and implemented in hardware, esposed by opengl 4.0 or something, etc
04:48.24 Maloeran Then you save a whole lot of memory to represent, let's say, an apple
04:49.27 brlcad i mean topologically and representation wise, it doesn't buy you much over a nurbs
04:49.39 brlcad other than the potential to evaluate lower order
04:50.00 Maloeran Oh, but nurbs are horribly costly to intersect
04:50.11 brlcad that's what I mean
04:50.18 Maloeran The point is to have some very simple curved facets, as simple as they can be, which are very fast to intersect
04:50.21 brlcad it's lower order, so considerably faster
04:51.39 Maloeran Yes... but typical nurbs are still rather expensive, even low order ones
04:52.13 Maloeran My idea is rather simple, I think we'll go over that tomorrow afternoon
04:52.33 brlcad if you can't go from implicit or nurbs to these bezier triangles or whatever you want to call them, faithfully..
04:53.15 Maloeran I'm thinking CSG -> curved facets could be really nice
04:53.52 Maloeran or high order nurbs -> curved facets
04:54.04 Maloeran I don't believe much in transforming triangles into curved facets
04:54.18 brlcad i wasn't disputing that nurbs are expensive, I was saying that topologically and representation wise, it doesn't buy you much other than that evaluation diff
04:54.30 Maloeran Right
04:55.39 brlcad i'm sure there's probably some tradeoff difference there as well depending on how many curvies you'd need to faithfully represent the equivalent patch/implicit
04:56.30 brlcad curvies, I like that
04:56.34 Maloeran Quite true. What I'm thinking is that we could reach better accuracy, performance and memory use with such curved facets rather than triangles
04:56.46 Maloeran For some surfaces anyway
04:56.53 brlcad yeah, that would be nice
04:57.10 brlcad though I'm curious about a couple of the papers tomorrow regarding fast nurbs evaluation
04:57.29 Maloeran I briefly shared some theory with Lee and Erik last month, but apparently, I'm not supposed to work on this stuff before all the other requirements are met
04:57.48 brlcad you can work on whatever you want
04:57.51 brlcad just not on the clock :)
04:57.53 Maloeran Yes, let's hope it's better than what's presently on the internet
04:58.06 Maloeran Oh, true :)
04:59.30 brlcad "not supposed to work on XXX" sometimes also just means don't talk about XXX while working too ;)
05:08.57 Maloeran *nods* I'm getting the idea :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060921

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060921

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13:26.07 Maloeran Erik, I'll turn that btree of side nodes into a weird tree/list hybrid, thanks for the random thought :)
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16:58.36 PrezKennedy i have no fortune on bzflag.bz!!
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060922

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060922

02:16.06 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168049846.dsl.bell.ca)
02:41.23 IriX64 Hey twingy, what's your heat source?
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09:02.46 LibertyTrooper Know nothing newbie alert
09:04.01 LibertyTrooper So, anyone home?
09:04.15 LibertyTrooper Or, is it too late in da evening?
09:16.48 LibertyTrooper So, this is probably futile; I'm attempting to run BRLCAD on OSX and not having luck. Of course, I'm simply executing the /usr/brlcad/bin/mged command but I've tried passing it tank.g as an option.
09:17.03 LibertyTrooper I get some error mumbo jumbo : Major opcode of failed request: 129
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09:17.20 LibertyTrooper perhaps someone can shed some light on this?
09:17.45 LibertyTrooper of course, don't everyone say everything at once. I mean.. its just botland it seems.
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09:18.39 LibertyTrooper funny, I thought the AUP specifically stated No Bots. Perhaps I am wrong :?
09:25.40 archivist its irc you need to wait a bit
09:40.00 LibertyTrooper back. I'm using a new IRC client and multi tasking over several different computers. Please bear with me.
09:40.43 archivist people who know brlcad on OSX are on US time
09:41.10 LibertyTrooper I really have to stop being a nightowl I suppose :)
09:42.32 LibertyTrooper I probably should find something less complex than BRLCAD...
09:44.36 LibertyTrooper Any recommendations?
09:52.06 LibertyTrooper It used to be that one couldn't find good CAD/CAM systems on Windows. They had to run on Unix. These days, though, its impossible to find anything reasonable that runs on the largest installed base of Unix around - MacOS :(
09:52.29 LibertyTrooper The worst thing is that I'm a recent refugee from Windows... Just as I was once a refugee from *nix to windows
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10:34.20 brlcad mm.. impatience
10:36.14 archivist very
10:36.57 archivist i cant believe "largest installed base of Unix around - MacOS"
10:52.02 brlcad i've heard that quoted in many various forms and forums, at least for desktop computing
10:52.27 brlcad not hard to buy in terms of largest unix-based vendor, though a lot harder to quantify as the largest installed base
10:54.56 brlcad can't exactly readily measure how many use the various linux and bsds quite as easily since they don't equate to sales so directly
10:55.46 clock_ brlcad: if you sell a macos does it mean it's installed?
10:56.46 brlcad i presume you mean, if apple sells a mac, does it mean mac os is installed?
10:57.03 archivist easier to mesure in terms of downloads for each op system
10:57.06 brlcad of course not, but I'd venture 99% of macs retain mac os x
10:57.56 brlcad the minority that buy a mac and then erase it to install linux is a vast minority in the big scheme of things, so you can generally equate the sales as OS users
10:59.23 brlcad archivist: nah, downloads can be quite skewed.. heck I've downloaded 5 different linux variants over the past month alone and only got around to installing two of them
10:59.43 brlcad neither of which am I using, was just testing
11:01.09 archivist just as likely to be testing on other systems so the ratio of one to another is the clue stick
11:01.39 brlcad huh?
11:02.02 brlcad it's maybe informative as a bsd vs linux metric, but tells me rather nothing about the OS's that I don't download
11:03.24 archivist Im thinking of qty of apps downloaded for operating systems not the op systems themselves
11:03.36 brlcad the closest you can get to comparing there is probably by looking at web visitor stats, pick a site that has a fairly minimal bias and compare visitor's OSs or such
11:03.48 brlcad ahh, perhaps
11:04.14 brlcad though even there, different OS have different trends in how you obtain software
11:04.59 brlcad I frequently buy Mac software, I don't generally ever buy linux software -- I rarely download mac software in comparison
11:05.46 brlcad finding a piece of software that didn't have a user bias would be even harder than finding a website I'd imagine
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11:06.45 brlcad (e.g. i'd suspect there's a lot more linux users that download firefox, even compared to windows downloads, simply due to the user bases and prevalent use)
11:07.26 brlcad looking at stats for something like google or maybe cnn (us and international ed.) would be most telling
11:21.49 archivist I spend a lot of time in #mysql and a large proportion of questions are from linux/bsd users but mysql state that windows binaries have a larger download qty (probably skewed by distros supplied stuff)
11:41.40 brlcad heh, that's biased on so many levels
11:42.20 archivist all stats are biased
11:43.09 brlcad sure they are, which is why it's important to minimize the bias where possible if you want to derive any sense out of the stats
11:44.12 archivist please dont remind be of Open University Statistics
11:44.25 brlcad referring to how many people on a relatively obscure communication forum ask questions about a relatively market specific piece of software doesn't really say much at all :)
11:50.14 brlcad which is why I mentioned site visitors, if it's installed desktop OS user base we're going after, then one thing almost universal these days is internet browsing .. picking a site that has fairly global appeal/popularity to minimize market/cultural/regional bias, ergo looking at stats for a place like yahoo, cnn, ebay, google, etc
11:50.50 brlcad with that, I'd expect you might be able to get the error down to just a couple percentage points
11:57.25 brlcad anyhow, we're not likely to get those stats until the big name sites tally up their results for us or provide some sort of interface to data mine
11:58.37 archivist hehe that will be the day, thinking about "errors" I gota go to a gear manufacturer to take some gears back this afternoon, they through hardened so I cannot machine the hubs
13:52.11 ``Erik *yawn*
14:02.18 Maloeran For that random thought which triggered a reconstruction of the side traversal, you'll be forced to have your name in the future paper Erik :)
14:03.56 ``Erik heh
14:04.03 ``Erik is the reconstruction... beneficial? :D
14:04.36 Maloeran Theorically, it could save about 5-10% memory and speed up the traversal a tiny bit
14:04.46 ``Erik sweet
14:05.06 ``Erik <-- does the "creepy cg diaper baby dance"
14:05.10 Maloeran Basically, it will be some weird tree where some following nodes can be fetched at fixed offsets, as in a list
14:06.01 Maloeran Hum, more like 4-7% less memory
14:07.01 ``Erik oh, um, that's actually a fairly well known approach... first year CS stuff, dude...
14:07.45 Maloeran I know, but I need to store sector pointers when we jump out of the node tree there as well
14:10.53 Maloeran Originally, I couldn't do that as nodes were being reused by neighbour sectors for connections, but that's not quite compatible with dynamic geometry support and doesn't save much ( the prototype does that )
14:11.31 Maloeran I noticed you were reading about convenience libraries, any news on that? :)
14:12.29 ``Erik oh, um, I actually had the library wired into your program
14:12.52 ``Erik but gcc does some funny things, apparently it does not like holding the symbol for global variables
14:13.05 ``Erik which you use a few of :) (like mmCount would be undefined outside of mm.o)
14:13.26 Maloeran Oh, hum.
14:20.42 Maloeran Any thought then? Just #ifdef away these global variables for memory tracking?
14:55.41 ``Erik well, the globals being in the object are fine... it's accessing them that's tricky... personally write "accessor" functions *shrug*
14:55.49 ``Erik but we can always figure something else out *shrug*
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22:03.18 Maloeran Justin's url for a laptop battery recommendation scrolled out of the irc buffer by a few lines, can anyone copy that for me?..
22:05.53 IriX64 what brand laptop?
22:07.57 Maloeran Acer 3000, 3003wlmi more precisely
22:18.37 IriX64 try www.acer.com or www.acer.ca.
22:24.24 Maloeran "Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03e9' Out of memory /vs/go/acer-aspire-notebook.asp, line 0" Out of memory, I like that :)
22:26.18 IriX64 :)
22:33.39 IriX64 $ gcc --version
22:33.39 IriX64 gcc (GCC) 4.1.1
22:33.40 IriX64 Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
22:33.40 IriX64 This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
22:33.40 IriX64 warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
22:33.50 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0look familiar? ;)
22:36.05 IriX64 smokity break. :)
22:57.22 ``Erik yes, looks like dumbass in motion. :D
23:15.23 Twingy my heat source?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060923

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060923

00:11.39 IriX64 Twingy: your forge, you use torches?
00:31.00 IriX64 ``Erik: you've got that backwards it's ass dumb. ;)
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01:40.59 Twingy propane
01:41.06 Twingy C3H8
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02:03.17 dan_falck Hi Twingy
02:04.32 dan_falck this doesn't do a whole lot yet, but check it out:
02:04.36 dan_falck http://home.comcast.net/~mark8437/index.html
02:05.04 dan_falck a little bit of a CAM program on top of OpenCASCADE
02:30.36 Twingy hello
02:31.56 dan_falck Mark Pictor wrote that
02:32.05 dan_falck he's also on the EMC list
02:32.17 Twingy urf
02:32.22 Twingy he didn't tar it up with a folder
02:33.19 Twingy stargate, bbl
02:33.31 dan_falck ok
02:38.41 ``Erik stargate++
02:44.02 Twingy dan_falck, seeing that surface brings make memories
02:44.09 Twingy s/make/back
03:42.14 IriX64 what file system should i format my jump drive in?
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03:56.28 ``Erik cpmfs
03:58.04 IriX64 cross pointed multi-functional system ... all right. :)
03:58.45 IriX64 cpm file system?
03:59.08 IriX64 won't fit in the 8" drive.
04:02.48 IriX64 93 meg bz2 file sheesh.
04:03.47 IriX64 thats after a make clean.
04:05.11 IriX64 didn't realize it had gotten that big, oh well.
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04:55.40 ValarQ morning folks
05:50.59 ValarQ :/
05:58.58 brlcad evening too
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08:03.45 LibertyTrooper Evening all.
08:12.13 LibertyTrooper I guess I'm too late again this evening to find anyone who uses BRL on Mac.
08:35.25 LibertyTrooper HELLOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Anyone home?
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16:14.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: added documentation for expand_comb_tree
16:15.43 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl Makefile.am): expand_comb_tree tcl script for expanding combination records to minimal tree nodes
16:18.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: fixed typos
16:22.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html:
16:22.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: making the example code consistent. Region id's indicated I didn't type the
16:22.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: example in all at once. Sigh. Now it looks like I did.
16:26.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh:
16:26.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Driver script for facetizing all regions in a database. Since mged may
16:26.28 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: abort during some failed facetization attempts, we need a shell script so that we can re-start it and continue facetizing.
16:28.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/facetize_all_regions.tcl: Routines to facetize all regions in a database. For use in conjunction with the "facetall.sh" script
16:29.12 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: added facetall.sh to installed scripts
16:32.39 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: added expand_comb_tree and facetall additions
16:34.18 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/cmd.c: To help Doxygen, distinguish the libbu/cmd.c from the cmd.c in other directories
16:36.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure):
16:36.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: Added librt to the directories processed. Reformatted doxygen_source to be
16:36.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: a little more readable. Each directory has a single comment that builds all
16:36.15 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the sub-groups for the directory.
16:37.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: Noted Doxygen updates
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17:02.38 jan_ hello folks
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23:21.55 IriX64 gcc 4.1.1 on cygwin , can you beleive it?
23:22.11 IriX64 believe too.
23:23.04 IriX64 compiles brlcad successfully.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060924

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060924

02:13.39 brlcad eep, lotsa privs
02:25.11 Twingy meep meep
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03:17.52 dan_falck meep
03:18.12 Twingy 'lo
03:18.22 dan_falck hi
03:18.32 dan_falck how's it going
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03:18.46 Twingy I need to write the manual gui for gcam
03:18.47 dan_falck oh oh
03:19.11 dan_falck do you want some help with it?
03:19.12 Twingy I'll use a standard treeview and expat I think
03:19.19 Twingy you know gtk?
03:19.27 Twingy or expat?
03:19.33 dan_falck not gtk, but the manual for using it
03:19.43 Twingy you do any coding?
03:19.48 dan_falck python
03:19.55 Twingy m'kay
03:20.11 dan_falck I design tooling, not a programmer
03:20.17 Twingy ah, k
03:20.27 Twingy well, gcam is functional right now
03:20.32 dan_falck cool
03:20.34 Twingy you got time to give it a spin?
03:20.37 dan_falck yes
03:21.03 Twingy um, comtrash disabled my inbounds, should be on comcast worksplace next week, but how do you want tarball
03:21.20 dan_falck tgz is fine
03:21.24 Twingy how
03:21.28 Twingy dcc?
03:21.45 dan_falck dcc doesn't seem to work with this system
03:21.56 dan_falck how about the web site?
03:22.32 Twingy again
03:22.38 Twingy comcast disabled my inbounds
03:22.54 Twingy I am switching to comcast workplace with a static ip, but not until next week
03:22.58 Twingy ...will that occur
03:23.07 dan_falck ok, sorry
03:23.14 dan_falck how big is it?
03:23.23 Twingy what OS are you running
03:23.47 dan_falck ubuntu, mac os x, redhat 7, debian
03:23.53 Twingy k, works on all those
03:23.58 dan_falck lot's of machines out in my garage
03:24.09 Twingy windows/freedos/freebsd in the garage
03:24.56 Twingy how about email
03:25.07 dan_falck let's try it
03:25.11 dan_falck dfalck@verizon.net
03:26.39 Twingy sent
03:27.18 dan_falck ok got it. Thanks
03:27.27 Twingy scratch the src/gcam, make that ./gcam
03:28.02 Twingy let me know after you got it running
03:28.28 dan_falck Ok. I'm going to transfer it to a ubuntu box in my garage. I will let you know how things work out tomorrow.
03:28.31 dan_falck thanks
03:29.40 Twingy k
03:29.42 Twingy here's how things work
03:30.14 Twingy create a new project, insert a sketch, insert lines and arcs, insert lines and arcs into the extrusion to control depth
03:30.39 Twingy export g-code to drive mill, double check the feed though
03:33.17 dan_falck ok
03:34.03 Twingy there are a handful of minor things that still need work
03:34.23 Twingy so whenever I get around to finishing those I can release
03:34.53 dan_falck I've been testing out lots of little bits of OS cam
03:35.01 dan_falck small applications
03:35.17 dan_falck that OpenCascade CAM thing was the latest
03:35.37 Twingy I wasn't thrilled by OpenCascade CAM
03:35.43 dan_falck I've been looking at aptos, which is command line driven but very powerful
03:35.53 Twingy it's using alot of non-standard stuff to create something in a hurry
03:36.28 Twingy I think you'll find the foundation of gcam is very solid, more than meets the gui
03:37.27 dan_falck is it possible to extract info about lines and circles from it to pipe into another application? (not having looked at it yet)
03:37.38 dan_falck lines and arcs I mean
03:37.44 Twingy from the binary file, sure
03:37.55 Twingy I haven't published the binary file spec yet
03:38.19 Twingy it's highly extensible and backwards compatible oriented
03:38.44 Twingy much thought went into it
03:39.41 Twingy now I'm off, ttyl
03:39.59 dan_falck let me compile this on the garage machine. I'll pop up under another irc name from there
03:40.02 dan_falck thanks
03:40.18 dan_falck bye
03:40.27 Twingy k
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19:53.46 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: let header.sh be used with other projects and copyright holders too
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060925

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060925

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03:53.54 justin_ I have lay-in lugs, w00t
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12:51.13 Maloeran Woah. I mentionned my interest to explore raytracing hardware to Mark from Survice, and now they ask if they can provide anything I could use, even if it's as a hobby
12:53.15 Maloeran Prasad stopped idling on IRC long ago, hasn't he?
12:55.02 archivist !seen Pra5ad
12:55.09 Maloeran Erik seemed to have some vague and diffuse interest to tackle raytracing hardware. What about you, Sean?
13:23.49 Maloeran Or anyone else for that matter ;). I sure wouldn't mind exchanging a few thoughts with Prasad if he were to drop by again
13:27.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am:
13:27.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: make the dependency on libbu.la more explicit, otherwise some versions of
13:27.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: automake/libtool seem to not detect the dependency causing them to attempt a
13:27.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: linking of htester before libbu has finished building. thx to dan o'neill for
13:27.31 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: reporting this issue (sf bug report 1563466, libbu.la missing)
13:31.37 brlcad ~seen pra5ad
13:31.51 ibot pra5ad <n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 32d 13h 28m 54s ago, saying: 'pickle'.
13:32.03 brlcad heh, pickle
13:32.14 brlcad that about sums up prasad
13:33.19 brlcad Maloeran: mildly.. it really depends on the hardware and cost
13:35.13 Maloeran FPGAs first, followed by ASIC, then the world? :) VHDL/Verilog code are fairly "portable" for hardware design
13:35.36 brlcad in general if it's just an academic persuit with little chance of ever spreading through the community, then my interest dwindles.. even if the hardware and research would be cool .. :)
13:35.56 brlcad fpgas in general would be nice to play with just because they have broad applications
13:36.07 Maloeran I'm unsure about that, it must be possible to get some backing in order to pursue this beyond a toy
13:36.28 Maloeran If we solve dynamic geometry, raytracing hardware should be very appealing
13:37.28 brlcad but something tells me that the prices on them aren't going to drop anytime soon, and even if "only" costs a few grand a card (which is currently unrealistic) and gives a nice 10x boost.. and I could have gotten that same boost or better with other chips..
13:38.04 Maloeran FPGAs are just meant for quick testing and experiments I think. To get serious, we need ASIC
13:38.16 brlcad i'm not saying I doubt that it couldn't get backing beyond a toy, that doesn't make it something that will "spread through the community" though
13:38.29 brlcad getting the backing is frankly easy
13:39.05 Maloeran An ASIC design can be fully developed before any real investment, and then we could look for backing
13:39.22 brlcad i'm just questioning the merit of the approach, the overall long term utility is quite dubious
13:40.01 Maloeran I suppose the long term utility would be to make the first steps towards the disappearance of rasterization hardware
13:40.48 brlcad and I don't think that will happen anytime soon
13:40.58 brlcad they're driving the market by a couple orders of magnitude
13:41.10 brlcad more likely is that video cards will get more and more generic
13:41.22 brlcad maybe a union of the "physics card" capabilities
13:41.53 brlcad and more programmable in general, maybe eventually to the point of an fpga or some limited subset
13:42.19 Maloeran Possibly. Commercial raytracing ASIC boards are already avaiable out there, so there must be a market of some sort
13:42.36 brlcad or at least someone thinks there's a market :)
13:42.46 Maloeran The more programmable it is, the less optimized it is for raytracing specifically
13:42.53 archivist build into your stuff into tft display then
13:43.13 brlcad yep, which is why fpga's are mostly academically interesting until you can get that onto an asic
13:43.26 brlcad since you won't get the best performance
13:43.38 Maloeran Clearly so, but it's handy as a development toy
13:44.40 brlcad my main "concern" though is say that the technical implementation was all taken care of and we could fab the "best" ray-tracing specific asic today
13:45.12 brlcad someone ponies up 500k in funds to have a bunch of cards made, a massive render farm of sorts
13:46.06 Maloeran How is that a concern?
13:46.07 brlcad how does that performance compare to 500k invested into a supercomputer/cluster instead?
13:46.14 Maloeran Ah right
13:46.18 brlcad i don't think the numbers are there myself
13:46.30 brlcad and the supercomputer/cluster has vastly more applicable use
13:46.40 brlcad s/applicable/general/
13:47.01 brlcad i mean it's cool, very cool
13:47.08 brlcad but .... :)
13:47.14 Maloeran That's the main issue, definitely. The way I see it, and I could be mistaken, raytracing has not become meanstream because of lack of dynamic geometry support
13:47.31 Maloeran With superior algorithms, we can correct that, among other things
13:47.59 brlcad and in two years after you dump that 500k in, the cards may depreciate something like 80% and the cpus 50%
13:48.40 Maloeran If the design was good, it should be equally possible to build new fancy ASICs with the technology of the moment
13:49.17 brlcad while i don't think ray-tracing has become mainstream because 90% of the community doesn't need or care about the capabilities provided -- that will slowly change as more and more realism is added, but even that is a few years off
13:49.30 brlcad and in general you can always fake it much faster than you can simulate it
13:49.48 Maloeran Quite true. I don't think we would get to the point where we are ready to put ASIC boards together within 2 years anyhow
13:50.08 brlcad i mean every single effect and benefit that ray-tracing provides is generally doable on the video card with maybe the exception of subsurface scattering
13:50.10 Maloeran So this is a long-term project and/or hobby
13:50.41 brlcad and even subsurface is "close enough" with the right textures
13:51.03 Maloeran Realistic lighting, as a whole, is not possible by rasterization, but there are other advantages. Ray-tracing doesn't really care about the count of polygons
13:51.09 Maloeran You can even have curved surfaces
13:51.13 brlcad the benefit will come when all of the "hacks" can be thrown away for the considerably more simple "ray-trace" approach when the performance just isn't a concern
13:52.32 brlcad see, you say realistic lighting isn't possible, yet there are a slew of games that hack away "good enough" at reasonably good lighting, good enough for their users regardless if there's no foundation on realism
13:52.56 brlcad and they already have curved surfaces (end result, not underlying implementation) from their perspective
13:53.35 brlcad not caring about the polygon count would be a benefit
13:54.08 Maloeran Quite right. Raytracing still have some serious advantages regarding the simplicity and flexibility of the rendering, and performance being mostly independnat on the complexity of the scene
13:54.44 Maloeran It's horrible how much you have to hack things together to do something "realistic" with rasterization rendering, I played with OpenGL for a while...
13:55.17 brlcad what I could see happen would be a dedicated ray-trace pipeline getting tacked onto video cards
13:55.39 brlcad but that'd only occur IFF the ray-trace community could standardize
13:56.08 Maloeran That would only be possible with serious hardware support for space partitioning and so on, I don't think it's so likely to appear on GPUs
13:56.22 brlcad talked about that sort of an idea several times with some guys at ati a few years ago and the idea wasn't unheard of
13:58.01 Maloeran Well then... To summarize, if we were to seriously aim for a high-performance ASIC implementation, would you have any interest?
13:58.08 brlcad heh
13:59.51 brlcad possibly, I suppose it really depends on a lot of (other) issues
14:00.40 brlcad i've got a new modeling system to focus on, geometry server, run-time engine, solid model analyses, ...
14:01.42 Maloeran Understood, and it can wait a few months... I wish we could put together a little team of motivated individuals on this problem, I am personally very interested as you surely noticed
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18:09.30 IriX64 <PROTECTED>
18:09.44 IriX64 whats that all about?
18:10.58 IriX64 happened in overlap tool obj1-obj2.
18:11.16 IriX64 havoc database.
18:11.27 IriX64 reproducible.
18:12.09 IriX64 and don't tell *me to fix it, you own it :)
18:30.14 IriX64 castle has no overlaps.
18:32.04 IriX64 neither does cornell :)
18:33.14 Maloeran The 10k polygons castle model? Ah, I remember Twingy and I using that in our early ray-tracing experiments :)
18:34.01 Maloeran In the days where we would get 200k rays per second instead of 10 millions
18:36.13 IriX64 says its the logo castle.
18:36.44 IriX64 btw you're at a conference, are you playing hookey? :)
18:37.03 ValarQ IriX64: hey, stop spamming me
18:37.12 IriX64 haha all right.
18:37.41 IriX64 was looking for something you might like because i so enjoyed your vortex.
18:37.56 ValarQ you're filling my 0.5TB raid in my mailserver :P
18:38.09 Maloeran Ah, we came back from that conference last Friday
18:38.10 IriX64 hehe ill tar them up then ;)
18:38.19 IriX64 ah i c.
18:39.18 IriX64 half a terrabyte? whooo hooo.
18:39.46 IriX64 500gigs later of Irix^4's screen shots and what do we have :)
18:39.58 IriX64 s/6/^
18:41.25 IriX64 BTW that error is real.
18:42.59 IriX64 hahaha Gordon Lightfoot, summerside of life albumn "and the kind of gig I like the most is a rubbing the wrong girl right"
18:43.45 IriX64 :)
18:44.34 IriX64 Mouth Wash only $1.50 per bottle ;)
18:46.14 IriX64 and no i'm not implying you have halsitosis. :)
18:48.49 IriX64 star.g->shooting rays at 100.0mm this may take some time. doh tell me about it.
18:50.25 IriX64 if you're going to be a solid modelling suite *be a solid modelling suite ;)
18:51.54 IriX64 ray spacing .1m sigh.... look before you shoot :)
18:53.58 IriX64 cpu load 100% however kernel time is not even on the scale it's so low.
19:07.13 IriX64 scuse me, leaky horse, brb. :)
19:22.22 IriX64 g_lint -> 98% sheesh.
19:23.07 IriX64 cpu that is not progress.... blargh.
19:25.23 IriX64 but as they say, I mourn, I grieve, I move on.
19:25.57 IriX64 he was such hot shit toilet paper burned when it touched him :)
19:55.08 Maloeran What do you use BRL-CAD for, IriX64? Just curious
20:12.13 IriX64 testing my x-compiler.
20:12.52 IriX64 how do you test any compiler?throw lots and lots of code at her, and BrlCad qualifies as lots and lots of code :)
20:17.46 IriX64 thats why i only report bugs I come across, too busy fixing my own ;)
20:18.38 Maloeran Interesting, what compiler are you working on?
20:38.22 IriX64 working on what started life as gcc 3.3.3 but has eveolved to be cassie.exe
20:38.32 IriX64 evolved too.
20:39.13 IriX64 checking for x86-unix-linux-gnu-gcc...cassie.exe love it.
20:40.13 IriX64 left a copy called gcc.exe for configure scripts that don't honor CC.
20:42.33 IriX64 can you believe this, overlap tool is still shooting rays, what'd you guys do?
20:43.28 IriX64 this gui is the shits, i should abandon it. :)
20:44.04 IriX64 you see i need to work on something between 5 hour compile runs. :)
20:44.10 Maloeran Whine about the current raytracer, you'll like the next one ;)
20:44.25 IriX64 heh thanks for the invitation :)
20:44.49 Maloeran It might be the fastest in the world, apparently
20:45.14 IriX64 define fast, all computers wait at the same speed. :)
20:45.36 IriX64 18.2 ;)
20:48.29 IriX64 altho, you know they could use 36.4 or 44.4 and scale for backwards compatibility *shrug.
20:57.40 Maloeran Anything special about your branch of gcc? Better optimisation?
20:58.52 IriX64 arch mcpu things of that nature, and yes optimization of 3 is there.
21:02.27 IriX64 $ gcc --version
21:02.27 IriX64 gcc (GCC) 4.1.1
21:02.27 IriX64 Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
21:02.27 IriX64 This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
21:02.27 IriX64 warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
21:02.28 IriX64 IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~
21:02.30 IriX64 $ gcc -dumpmachine
21:02.32 IriX64 i686-pc-cygwin
21:02.34 IriX64 if it helps :)
21:07.58 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
21:07.58 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
21:14.44 IriX64 lf i post my ld --help screen, you'll.... :)
21:24.25 IriX64 www.pastebin.com Mario D'Ulisse
21:27.13 IriX64 you know overlap tool needs some work scuse me.
22:28.41 *** mode/#brlcad [+b %IriX64!*@*.dsl.bell.ca] by brlcad
22:29.23 brlcad you'd think he'd learn
22:33.12 dtidrow_work lol
22:46.37 ``Erik heh
23:37.47 Twingy took you long enough
23:42.11 brlcad it's not a full ban, just stole his voice
23:46.27 dtidrow_work heh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060926

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060926

00:11.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bn.h bu.h): have the headers include the headers they respectively require
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01:34.29 Maloeran http://www.rayforce.net/galleon.png - The killer of ray-tracing acceleration structures
01:34.47 Maloeran With all these wires and ropes in the way :)
01:36.22 Maloeran That will look better with a touch of texturing... that and global illumination
01:39.23 Maloeran I challenge these kd-tree people to get good performance in this scene, eheh
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01:53.58 brlcad nice model
01:54.26 brlcad where'd it come from?
01:56.23 Maloeran A friend of mine made it, as I mentionned to Lee. Technically, I'm paying the guy
01:56.51 Maloeran It's much more impressive with texturing and so on
01:57.21 Maloeran http://mcarp.earthstorm.com/reel/rotter-lowe/index.php?showimage=rotter-lowe-070.jpg&screenwidth=1600
01:59.23 brlcad unlimited rights? willing to share? :)
01:59.28 brlcad would make for a great test model
01:59.52 Maloeran Exactly my idea, it's the perfect model for raytracing benchmarks
01:59.59 brlcad is it a full on poly model only?
02:00.01 Maloeran It will be available for non-commercial use soon
02:00.32 Maloeran "Full on poly model only"? It's made of triangles exclusively, and all volumes are closed to run vulnerability analysis or whatever else you guys do
02:02.25 brlcad yeah, a triangle/poly-only model
02:02.38 Maloeran *nods* Right
02:02.40 brlcad instead of say a patches model of some sort
02:02.54 brlcad solid would have been my next question, cool
02:03.38 Maloeran And it was made from real blueprints, so this should be nice. The author really is impressing me, he's a hobbist
02:03.54 Maloeran Well, besides the pitiful amounts I pay him to tweak his models for my needs
02:04.26 brlcad :)
02:05.37 brlcad is he looking for work? I'd pay for some models myself
02:06.03 Maloeran Oh, he definitely is, he has no contacts to get in the industry
02:06.24 Maloeran Hence why I'm trying to promote his work a bit, because he's getting really good
02:07.44 Maloeran If you are interested, his nickname is mcarp on efnet, otherwise mcarp@mcarp.org
02:12.52 brlcad hangs out anywhere in particular?
02:13.16 Maloeran On efnet's #asm, among the crazy assembly programmers like myself
02:13.53 brlcad aiight
02:15.07 brlcad well I am definitely interested, there's been a couple models I've wanted for several years
02:16.01 brlcad though I would like to have it constructed of primitives and CSG so I can do comparisons
02:16.33 brlcad either implicits or breps/nurbs, but CSG-driven design to match the original
02:16.43 Maloeran Excellent news. I don't know if he's used to anything else than triangles as final product, but feel free to ask him
02:17.00 Maloeran He certainly is used to nurbs, I wouldn't know about CSG though
02:17.02 brlcad he's a student?
02:17.15 Maloeran He's a ~40 years old tech support guy
02:17.20 brlcad ah, cool
02:18.41 Maloeran Feel free to share how it goes if you chat with him, I have been willing to get some attention on his skills for some time
03:07.23 Maloeran Erik, the autoconf/automake stuff breaks when trying to compile a 32 bits executable on amd64. It appends a ton of -L paths but these are for 64 bits libraries
03:08.38 Maloeran Ah, it forces -L/usr/lib/libSDL.so instead of letting ld find it by itself
03:17.37 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168055376.dsl.bell.ca)
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15:36.25 mcarp does anyone have an estimate of how long it took to create the tank in this screen shot:
15:36.26 mcarp http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=36174
15:37.17 clock_ mcarp: you mean how long it took to develop Stryker ICV? Or how long the guys in factory assemble it together? Or how long it took to make the model? Or how long it renders?
15:37.31 Maloeran Make the model surely
15:37.48 mcarp how long did it take to make the model from primitives in brl-cad
15:38.35 mcarp approx man hours
15:39.28 clock_ mcarp: I'm sure this is a classified information, the information that the information is classified is classified too, and by just thinking about it you are automatically becoming a terrorist and will be dispatched to Syria upon your next visit to an airport :)
15:39.36 Maloeran There's a possibility it might have been provided by the company producing the vehicule. It was also rendered with ADRT which only deals with triangles, so perhaps it wasn't made of BRL-CAD CSG primitives
15:39.52 mcarp cute
15:40.28 Maloeran Are you on the brl-cad team or an user of the software, clock_?
15:40.43 clock_ Maloeran: user
15:41.23 mcarp i fail to understand how keeping the number of man hours to build that model secret has any relevence to anything in reality
15:41.37 Maloeran Right. mcarp : brlcad or ``Erik are likely to know more
15:41.58 clock_ mcarp: the whole idea o classified information doesn
15:42.04 clock_ t have any relevance to reality either
15:42.18 clock_ and also the one with terrorism ;-)
15:42.23 mcarp incorrect. classified information protects us national security sir
15:43.05 clock_ Much more people die on highways than from terrorism...
15:43.16 mcarp point?
15:43.36 clock_ it's just a masquerade
15:43.57 clock_ Basically "we want power, but we have to hook it up on something to make it look plausible"
15:44.25 mcarp that is irrelevent to my question of required man hours for a model of this complexity
15:44.59 clock_ mcarp: I don't know it and I just wanted to push my irrelevant opinion :)
15:58.11 brlcad mcarp: it's a hybrid model, put together in various systems and involves lots of people
15:59.02 brlcad it's a mix of csg and poly, converted to full poly for that particular rendering for adrt
15:59.39 clock_ brlcad: adrt is part of brlcad?
15:59.56 brlcad it's shipped as part of brl-cad, yes
16:00.16 clock_ brlcad: is rt for CSG and adrt for polygons?
16:00.28 brlcad pretty self-contained codebase though, it could just as easily be it's own project (and is/was)
16:01.34 brlcad clock_: pretty much, though it's more like adrt for triangles and rt for anything (csg, poly, brep, etc)
16:01.48 brlcad adrt gets its performance by specializing on processing triangles quickly
16:01.53 clock_ brlcad: is adrt faster or what is the advantage? And what does the ad mean?
16:02.15 brlcad advanced distributed ray tracer
16:02.32 brlcad adrt is faster processing triangles than rt is
16:03.30 brlcad rt supports much more of a variety of geometry, lighting models, run-time options, cross-platform support, etc
16:05.18 mcarp well as far as man hours on that model are we talking about weeks months what
16:06.03 brlcad mcarp: the stryker model is also part of a much larger effort that involves several organizations, engineering teams, analysis teams all with different focus points and is a constantly changing model as new armor is tested, different systems are tried, etc
16:07.02 mcarp im trying to get an idea what kind of workflow time wise the average modelers are getting in this
16:07.32 brlcad as far as man hours, if you were to try to model what's already there and had all the design specifications (which isn't reasonably feasible), we'd be talking several weeks, maybe a couple months
16:07.35 clock_ brlcad: how is it from moral point of view if someone doesn't want to contribute to arms race, but wants to work on GPL project? Is working on BRL-CAD moral or immoral then?
16:07.58 brlcad and that estimate is using BRL-CAD or Unigraphics or Pro/E or Solidworks
16:08.38 brlcad as it is, the model actually involves what's probably more like several man-years of effort as, again, it's a constantly changing model
16:09.00 brlcad and brl-cad only touches one small aspect of it, the vulnerability/lethality analysis side
16:09.03 mcarp are there any non-classified examples of high detail available
16:09.25 brlcad mcarp: not of any of the good models
16:09.30 clock_ brlcad: I did lethality analysis on Ronja, but the resulting lethality is very low :)
16:10.12 mcarp as an independent contractor i have to get a grasp on some method of fee calculation
16:10.19 brlcad i've been trying to get a simplified version of a particular russian vehicle released as open source for several years without success (a very well known model that you could probably go buy on the market if you really wanted)
16:10.29 mcarp which is directly perportional to likely time spent on complex geometry
16:11.26 brlcad mcarp: understood, it's a hard problem to estimate time on an unknown task
16:11.44 mcarp havoc.g for instance crashes brlcad on raytrace so i cant get a good idea of the final results. castle.g will ratrace
16:11.49 mcarp tank-car.g crashes
16:11.58 brlcad clock_: i don't personally see contributing to brl-cad as contributing to an arms race
16:12.13 clock_ brlcad: because anyone can use brl-cad for any purpose, right?
16:12.14 mcarp is there anything about "draw *" that could contribute to a crash of ratrace attempts
16:12.17 brlcad havoc.g crashes? .. that shouldnt' happen
16:12.36 brlcad eek
16:12.36 clock_ brlcad: and if the army pays some money for development, it will become weaker by the money removed, and arms race is actually slowed down :)
16:12.43 brlcad yeah.. "draw *" is .. bad :)
16:13.06 brlcad gets back to all of the expert knowledge that you have to know for basic operation ;)
16:13.16 mcarp sure of course
16:13.27 brlcad * expands to every object at every level of the model hierarchy
16:13.31 mcarp what is the recommended level of drawing to get a view of the final results
16:13.33 clock_ brlcad: we implemented a segfault recovery into Links - maybe you could borrow the code
16:13.33 brlcad which is certainly not what you wanted
16:13.51 mcarp right of course
16:13.53 clock_ brlcad: we use it for the final demonstration as university project - to make sure it doesn't segfault in front of the comission :D
16:13.53 brlcad start with "tops" to get a list of the top level objects, and then "draw some_object"
16:14.15 mcarp isnt there a draw everything thats going to be looked at type command?
16:14.47 clock_ brlcad: then the debugging was like "PerM, you should really do something with your javascript interpreter, my browser got already 7 segfaults..."
16:15.16 brlcad no, brl-cad geometry files often contain multiple models, not just one like you often find in other modeling systems .. there is no "default" object to display in several instances
16:15.39 brlcad we try to only have one in the public test databases, to minimize confusion, but that's not the common practice
16:15.48 brlcad for havoc.g, the primary object is "havoc"
16:16.19 brlcad clock_: what license is links?
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16:16.47 Maloeran Ah, I wish I had access to reasonably complex models myself ;), though I'm really fond of mcarp's superb frigate
16:17.22 Maloeran I finally have a model with which I can work on collection of multiple intersection points per ray, segment construction for traversal of materials
16:17.55 brlcad clock_: i also don't get the "it will become weaker by the money removed", you mean the army? that's hardly the case
16:18.21 mcarp is there a method of discovery for what is the primary object
16:18.22 brlcad governments are not corporations, don't act like them and certainly don't involve finances like them
16:18.32 brlcad mcarp: yes, tops
16:19.02 mcarp ah, sorry i misunderstood that
16:19.02 mcarp ty
16:19.02 clock_ brlcad: GPL
16:19.02 brlcad it's a hierarchy (a directed acyclic graph), so there are only a few trees
16:19.14 brlcad clock_: ah, then no use to me :)
16:19.24 clock_ brlcad: why? BRL-CAD is BSD?
16:19.31 brlcad need to remain lgpl/bsd clean
16:19.43 clock_ brlcad: we could give you an exception
16:19.56 brlcad brl-cad is a mix, different portions under different licenses
16:20.04 clock_ brlcad: we already made exception for OpenSSL
16:20.43 brlcad all of the GPL code is going to be converted to LGPL here shortly due to an issue with integrating the GPL portions
16:21.12 clock_ GPL that's like a woman - issues, issues, issues...
16:21.30 mcarp thats certainly a much improved display (havoc) as compared to castle.g or truck.g
16:21.53 mcarp that being the only way to see the geometry final results is a big hit to workflow tho
16:22.07 brlcad havoc is a fairly small model, but probably the most complex CSG example openly available
16:22.35 brlcad rt -F/dev/ogll (assuming you're on Windows) will render into a window
16:22.36 clock_ mcarp: if you want some example small models, http://ronja.twibright.com/3d
16:22.43 mcarp i'm only seeing orthagonal view modes are there not full perspective views?
16:23.19 clock_ mcarp: if you subject me to hypnosis I'll be maybe even recall how much manhours it was
16:23.49 brlcad mcarp: hit "3", is that what you mean? otherwise, go to Misc->Perspective for a default high-degree perspective
16:24.01 mcarp do you guys make bolts with threads or are all bolts non-threaded?
16:24.04 brlcad using the shift-grips key bindings, you can spin/pan/zoom the view
16:24.13 brlcad mcarp: depends entirely on the model
16:25.37 mcarp yes ive had no problems using shift grips
16:25.59 mcarp '3' appears to show an orthagonal view with no diminishing point
16:26.02 brlcad for a vulnerability/lethality analysis, threads are generally not of interest on bolts
16:26.21 brlcad mcarp: okay, just making sure you really meant perspective ;)
16:26.31 mcarp yes i REALLY meant perspective
16:26.35 brlcad you're looking for misc->perspective :)
16:27.04 mcarp ah, better
16:27.15 mcarp is this display ogl accellerated?
16:27.20 clock_ mcarp: I do without threads because I don't know how to do with threads
16:28.12 brlcad mcarp: depends which platform -- in general it usually is compiled with opengl support, though it's not really going to "accellerate" a wireframe view
16:28.42 brlcad mged supports various "display managers", one of them is an opengl view
16:29.19 mcarp i dont currently have available a bsd or linux system with useful graphics capability so i'm stuck in windows
16:29.36 mcarp not that 'stuck in windows' is bad for me
16:29.39 brlcad the windows binary should be opengl
16:29.57 brlcad that doesn't get you shaded views, but that's an entirely different/long discussion
16:30.43 brlcad implicit geometry vs explicit, design history, ..
16:31.09 mcarp flat shaded in viewport would be a big problem?
16:33.21 brlcad as mged is currently architected, it's a non-trivial problem
16:33.53 mcarp its not non-trivial for visualization of what you're building
16:34.04 brlcad brl-cad on the whole doesn't really care, but the geometry is fundamentally stored in implicit form which doesn't get you triangles to feed opengl
16:34.42 mcarp so the primitives arent drawable per se in ogl?
16:35.16 brlcad opengl *only* deals with triangles, so what ever you have, you have to convert to triangles to display via opengl
16:35.34 brlcad depending on your base model geometry types, that involves different sorts of conversions
16:36.12 brlcad they can be converted, all of them, and we do for some purposes (e.g. adrt is a triangle-only ray-tracer)
16:37.03 mcarp has anyone there done any boat hulls?
16:37.20 brlcad guys at the navy
16:37.36 mcarp nurbs?
16:38.22 brlcad there's no direct nurbs edit support in mged, only rendering support where the models come in through conversion or through programmatic creation
16:38.58 mcarp how about suspension springs
16:39.05 mcarp single helix
16:39.10 brlcad oh sure, lots of those
16:39.38 mcarp i havent gone deep enough into the tutorials to have a clue how you'd go about doing that with primitives
16:40.00 brlcad those can be rather easily constructed using torus sections or using the pipe primitive (which is basically a path-swept sphere with constraints)
16:40.00 mcarp which is why i asked about the bolt threads b4
16:40.51 mcarp ok, so there are some specialized deformative type parameters then
16:41.13 brlcad csg construction methods don't "come naturally" if you're coming from different design philosophies
16:41.47 brlcad it's a different way at looking at modeling problems
16:41.51 mcarp well i think its not the csg issues that im in the dark about its the brl-cad issues that im really in the dark on
16:42.02 brlcad some things lend themselves very nicely to CSG, others not so nicely depending on the primitive set
16:42.14 mcarp sure its all about the primitive set
16:42.28 mcarp just as with any system its all about what parameters can be applied
16:45.43 brlcad yep
16:46.11 brlcad some things with the brep method become complex, there certainly is a tradeoff in the techniques
16:46.33 brlcad which would be why most systems have become rather highly hybrid (the CAD systems that is, MAX doesn't count) ;)
16:47.37 brlcad solid modeling in general has a variety of topological constraints that aren't easily verifiable in non-CAD systems
16:50.54 mcarp yeah thats completely obvious when you start talking about things like pullies and ropes reguarding overlap
17:08.59 mcarp /dev/ogll could be much more efficient if it draws only invalidated regions rather than the entire window
17:09.35 mcarp but i am able to ratrayce all the scenes i crashed originally with draw *
17:10.24 Maloeran Anything better looking than the donut-wheeled truck? :)
17:10.38 mcarp yeah havoc looks very nice
17:10.48 mcarp tank_car is reasonable as well
17:10.55 Maloeran *nods* Good
17:11.01 mcarp i havent explored all the examples yet tho
17:11.54 mcarp donut tires tho...*shakes head*....i wouldnt show those, not good for recruiting business
17:13.10 Maloeran Ah! Donuts, is there anything they can't do?
17:13.56 brlcad mcarp: none of the example models are intended for recruiting business .. can't generally provide the models that would be good for recruiting business
17:14.10 brlcad they're mostly intended as test models for development
17:14.18 brlcad made by non-modelers often too
17:14.59 brlcad havoc is perhaps the only exception, and maybe the barbie jeep toy
17:15.28 mcarp which database is that?
17:15.53 brlcad the latter is a good example of what was possible after the introductory training and a couple hours modeling
17:16.12 brlcad it's toyjeep.g
17:16.25 brlcad probably not in your version, you'd have to pull it from cvs
17:16.31 mcarp yeah its not here
17:17.05 brlcad a *really* nice one that I like is the motorolla walkie-talkie that was used in the advanced modeling tutorial
17:19.58 brlcad but i've not put that into cvs yet, but it's a nice modeler by one of the best modelers; it's got a lot of meta resources, textures, extrusions, and even a few articulations iirc
17:20.21 mcarp okeydoke
17:22.50 brlcad and instead of the "couple hours" investment in the toyjeep, it's got a couple weeks of care and detail put into it
17:23.15 mcarp got a screen shot?
17:23.23 brlcad mcarp: you can get toyjeep from here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/db/
17:23.35 brlcad download the .asc and run asc2g to convert it
17:24.12 mcarp k
17:25.23 brlcad there are a couple screenshots in http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf
17:25.35 brlcad though none of the talkie as a full model
17:25.46 mcarp yeah im actually flipping through that document at the moment but havent gotten to it
17:25.47 mcarp yet
17:26.06 brlcad it just covers a piece of the antenna and the circuit board
17:34.58 mcarp odd, raytrace lingering window exits when i try to raytrace that
17:35.17 mcarp tops
17:35.18 mcarp all/
17:35.20 mcarp draw all
17:36.21 mcarp at least it didnt crash mged :P
17:52.35 mcarp i can raytrace individual objects but there is something under all/ that cant be drawn
17:54.00 mcarp or rather, cant be raytraced
17:55.42 brlcad hmm
17:56.13 mcarp lot of stuff under there i'd hate to have to figure out what object(s) shouldnt be drawn
17:56.17 mcarp the only thing in tops is all/
17:57.38 mcarp ah
17:57.39 brlcad it ray-traces just fine here, there may be some issue with the windows version, or asc2g on windows
17:57.48 mcarp um, error! fabs(y)=0
17:58.19 mcarp bn_mat_inv: error! fabs(y)=0
17:58.55 brlcad yeah, something wrong with the model
17:59.19 brlcad see if this .g works: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/toyjeep.g
17:59.40 mcarp a sec
18:00.20 mcarp exact same behavior
18:00.36 mcarp bn_mat_inv: error! fabs(y)=0
18:00.37 mcarp MATRIX singular matrix:
18:00.37 mcarp <PROTECTED>
18:00.37 mcarp <PROTECTED>
18:00.37 mcarp <PROTECTED>
18:00.39 mcarp bn_mat_inv: singular matrix
18:00.58 mcarp quick fix suggestions?
18:01.27 brlcad short of recompiling with the latest, not really
18:01.37 mcarp k, not a problem i can live without seeing it
18:01.44 brlcad that will require a debugging session
18:01.46 mcarp shame tho
18:01.53 brlcad good to know, but quite unexpected
18:02.05 mcarp hey, if it can be broken i can break it
18:02.08 brlcad the windows release hasn't been around for very long, that is the very first release
18:03.15 mcarp i had a machine that could be available for bsd or linux but that hdd was ancient and has gone *poof*
18:03.37 mcarp well ancient for maxtor *shrug*
18:04.34 mcarp not to mention i'd hate to give up my dual display
18:05.10 mcarp max + photoshop you need every available square inch of real estate you can get
18:06.24 mcarp i dunno how ppl without dual displays live without them when editing uvw maps in max
18:06.31 mcarp ok i do know cuz i used to
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18:30.09 mcarp drawing bl_main_power_line.r or bl_bl.s2 causes the raytracer to exit
18:30.20 mcarp all other objects drawn, successful raytrace
18:31.12 mcarp bbiaf
18:43.26 ``Erik *yawn*
18:55.08 Maloeran Eheh. Erik, mcarp is the cathedral & galleon modeller
18:55.57 Maloeran Galleon which is quite a test for any raytracer acceleration structure
18:56.44 mcarp back
18:58.31 ``Erik cool, hi
18:58.52 mcarp hi
18:59.24 ``Erik <-- is Erik, not a modeller
18:59.46 mcarp okeydoke
18:59.53 Maloeran Erik, how am I supposed to compile 32 bits executables on amd64 with your autoconf/automake stuff? It tries to link against /usr/lib/libSDL.so which is 64 bits
19:00.05 Maloeran Rather than letting ld find the proper library itself
19:00.13 ``Erik I'm a model :D *pose*
19:00.23 brlcad mcarp: thanks for the details, it's scheduled to get looked into
19:00.24 ``Erik mal: that'd be an issue with sdl-config itself... :/
19:00.32 mcarp yw
19:01.20 Maloeran No hint of solution then? Besides quickly putting together a working Makefile or even a bash script
19:01.58 ``Erik um, I'm sure there is one...
19:02.29 Maloeran If I just use -lSDL, ld will find the proper library by itself
19:02.39 ``Erik ermmmmmmm
19:02.50 Maloeran But the automake stuff tries to force a particular version by -L
19:02.51 ``Erik you link with @SDL_LIBS@ ?
19:03.18 ``Erik um, I'm kinda wondering if that's libtool doing it, not automake...
19:03.18 Maloeran Yes
19:03.50 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rendering toyjeep.g on Windows causes a crash on 'all', as well as bl_main_power_line.r or bl_bl.s2. bn_mat_inv() singular matrix error. bug found and reported by mcarp, thanks
19:04.11 ``Erik try to echo ${SDL_LIBS} in configure.ac... or better yet, read what was printed on the screen to link, heh, should be two very very long lines, one that calls libtool with flags, the next being what libtool tries to execute
19:04.38 brlcad ah, sdl-config doesn't know/care about 64bit iirc
19:05.19 Maloeran gcc -std=gnu99 -I./RT -I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT -m32 -o .libs/rftest main.o env.o crudemesh.o rtirender.o rtirenderflat.o -Wl,-rpath -Wl,/usr/lib -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libSDL.so /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5/libstdc++.so -L/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin -L/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5 -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib/../lib -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.
19:05.23 Maloeran <PROTECTED>
19:05.27 mcarp CIA-9: yessir
19:06.20 Maloeran CIA-9 is a bot, but I'm sure he appreciates the acknowledgement of its existence :)
19:06.25 ``Erik the line before it is what you care about, mal
19:06.29 mcarp ah :/
19:06.39 Maloeran mkdir .libs
19:06.46 Maloeran <PROTECTED>
19:06.46 mcarp you might amend that to 'raytrace exit' doesnt crash brl-cad
19:06.49 ``Erik should be like ../../libtool --mode=compile
19:07.06 ``Erik ok, so it's libtool screwing the pooch
19:07.12 ``Erik not automake or autoconf, hrm
19:08.44 ``Erik damn my ribs hurt :/
19:09.14 Maloeran Too much boat rowing with Sean?
19:09.20 brlcad heh
19:10.08 brlcad you could add an --enable-64bit option of some sort and when enabled/detected do something like `sdl-config --libs | sed 's/lib/lib64/g'`
19:10.38 Maloeran Compiling 64 bits is quite fine, it doesn't manage to build on 32 bits
19:10.46 Maloeran Unless I compile on another box anyway
19:11.03 Maloeran I maintain that we probably would have less problems with one Makefile per platform, it's simple and it works, but.. *sigh*
19:11.06 brlcad what does sdl-config --libs output?
19:11.24 Maloeran -L/usr/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread
19:11.41 Maloeran It should be /usr/lib32/libSDL.so for 32 bits libraries
19:12.28 brlcad ah, well similar 'trick' should do the trick
19:12.59 brlcad ``Erik: cad crash?
19:13.17 ``Erik huh?
19:13.23 Maloeran Pricy BWM crash?
19:13.27 ``Erik yeah :(
19:13.50 brlcad just lost connectivity
19:13.56 ``Erik http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/ (my camera sucks, I need a new one)
19:14.17 brlcad system, not the software
19:14.44 Maloeran Ahh!
19:14.47 Maloeran What happened?
19:15.05 ``Erik caught some grass, slid, hit a tree, rolled
19:15.20 Maloeran This is horrible.
19:15.26 ``Erik no shit?
19:15.46 brlcad eek
19:16.12 Maloeran I really wasn't aware of that. I hope you aren't too damaged?...
19:16.45 ``Erik um, some bruises, stretched ligamints in my rib cage, banged up my elbow, and a minor concussion
19:16.56 brlcad that sucks
19:17.07 ``Erik yeah, need another car :/
19:17.07 brlcad when was that?
19:17.10 Maloeran Ouch, ouch..
19:17.13 ``Erik saturday afternoon
19:17.18 brlcad damn
19:17.47 Maloeran Were you speeding at the time?
19:18.41 ``Erik didn't think I was, but the cops seem to think I was a tiny bit over the limit
19:19.13 Maloeran Could that be a problem for the car insurance?
19:19.32 ``Erik so far, no? *shrug* I'm crossing my fingers and hoping I'll have a check on friday
19:20.42 Maloeran I'm really sorry to hear this...
19:21.08 Maloeran At least you came out of it mostly intact, it seems
19:23.11 Maloeran Did you lose consciousness or just felt dizzy?..
19:23.20 ``Erik neither
19:23.35 ``Erik rolled it, got out through the sunroof and was walking around
19:23.59 Maloeran Ah, so it was quite minor, right
19:24.46 Maloeran ( the concussion that is )
19:37.12 dtidrow_work banged your head good, in other words?
19:37.14 Maloeran Were air bags helpful? I have often wondered how effective these cushions were
19:37.14 dtidrow_work well, I suspect they don't do much in a rollover
19:37.15 Maloeran They could prevent strain on the upper back, as the torso and head are being thrown around
19:39.55 ``Erik I d'no, I hit a tree and rolled it and came out pretty decent, so I guess between the seat belt and airbag that deployed *shrug*
19:40.32 Maloeran Yes, it really could have been worse
19:42.43 Maloeran I wish you a good recovery, please take care of yourself Erik
19:43.22 ``Erik heh, I'm trying to not get dead :) I think I came out better than you did with your bike accident
19:43.29 ``Erik those bikes are horrible death traps ;) *duck*
19:44.34 Maloeran :) Yes that's probably true, bicycles only get dangerous when there are motorized vehicules around
19:44.57 ``Erik I d'no, I've heard about people taking tumbles on trails and stuff
19:45.24 mcarp plus those derned helmets can muss yer hair
19:45.45 ``Erik meh, programmers hair is always mussed up
19:46.15 mcarp well sure but...thats beside the point of the inconvenience
19:46.31 Maloeran I suppose so. I once rammed fairly hard in a tree to avoid a child on roller blade who fell just in front of me, but that car door sure was worse
19:46.44 mcarp s/programmers/all computer nerds/
19:47.19 ``Erik damn nonprogrammer computer nerds, trying to get into the programmer geek clique... :D
19:47.45 mcarp <---15 years x86 assembly booya
19:47.59 brlcad heh
19:47.59 ``Erik um, ok, so you're a masochist, too
19:48.00 ``Erik :)
19:48.06 mcarp correct
19:48.33 mcarp add to that win32 usage :~
19:49.08 ``Erik I had an x86 15 yrs ago, but still used my commodores heavily
19:49.13 mcarp better watch it, is that a mactel?
19:49.17 ``Erik no
19:49.20 mcarp lol
19:49.29 ``Erik on a dual g5 right now, have a g4 powerbook and g3 ibook at home
19:49.51 mcarp to each his own
19:50.07 ``Erik but I tend to do crunch work on freebsd boxes with many opteron chips pushing
19:50.38 mcarp hey, they're all computers i can live with it
19:50.51 Maloeran The g4 powerbook was somewhat poor, half the ray-tracing crunch of a Sempron 1.8ghz laptop
19:51.14 mcarp bummer
19:51.27 ``Erik if you blow the pipeline and stall left and right, yeah... *cough* *cough*
19:51.29 mcarp im using a sempron 2200 on a 1.5Ghz mb
19:51.48 Maloeran Laptop or desktop?
19:51.53 mcarp desk
19:51.56 mcarp (asus)
19:52.05 Maloeran Mmhm. Let's get you an upgrade soon :)
19:52.35 mcarp doubt it will matter much considering the non-graphicly intense requirements of brl-cad
19:52.36 ``Erik heh, pheer my 850mhz tbirt at home :)
19:52.51 ``Erik erm, mged and 'rt' are pretty graphically intense
19:52.56 dtidrow_work heh
19:53.26 mcarp maybe when you get into 100s of 1000s of objects
19:53.37 ``Erik small geometries hehehe
19:53.46 mcarp im doing ok on 2million faces in max
19:54.01 mcarp lags until cached, but otherwise not bad
19:56.20 Maloeran Your galleon takes 200mb of RAM to ray-trace too, somewhat heavy
19:57.04 mcarp its a good thing the capt of the roter lowe is not alive to hear you call his frigate a gallean or *slash slash*
19:57.47 Maloeran :) Right right, frigate
19:57.48 mcarp now of course spanish galleons were about that size
19:59.14 mcarp Maloeran: build me a perspective viewport flat shader
19:59.26 ``Erik http://www.pacific-tall-ships.com/Roterlo_files/Roterlo_1.htm pheer
19:59.49 mcarp aye
20:00.17 mcarp the site i got my drawings from misspelled roter-lowe to 'rotter-lowe'
20:00.37 mcarp i was unable to google for images until i had nearly completed the model in its entirity :/
20:00.38 ``Erik http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Mamoli/RoterLoweMV19.htm
20:00.44 mcarp this was...a slight inconvenience
20:01.19 mcarp yeah that last image was the one i used for flag reference
20:01.43 Maloeran Quite cice. I still prefer a 3d model to a wood model
20:01.47 Maloeran nice, even
20:01.58 mcarp wood are quite satisfying to build tho
20:02.35 mcarp it should be completely obvious that i made up my own (non-period) color scheme since i didnt have any images
20:03.13 mcarp however i would have done a few things differently had i had access to google images at the time
20:03.30 mcarp and i totally ignore that in the drawins 'roter-lowe' was spelled correctly :?
20:03.32 mcarp :/
20:04.16 mcarp note the tripple block/tackle loading on the fore and main stays
20:04.20 mcarp mine are singles :/
20:05.31 Maloeran Oh... Well, still something that could easily be fixed if you desire so. It's a great model in any case
20:05.44 mcarp perhaps
20:06.20 mcarp i also found another interesting fact (language gap) roter lowe == "red lion"
20:07.13 Maloeran That explains the lion figure
20:07.16 mcarp so you see, history of a particular subject is good to have
20:07.22 mcarp indeed and that it is red
20:07.49 mcarp all i had were black and white fuzzy line drawings
20:09.00 Maloeran Don't worry about that :), it can be interesting to fill the missing pieces as you see them
20:09.18 mcarp i almost wonder if the web site owner misspelled rotter-lowe to keep us from finding additional info :P
20:09.52 mcarp well as you know it began as a personal fulfilment project so yeah, it doesnt matter that mauch
20:09.54 mcarp much
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20:10.34 mcarp at least one thing is for sure, bitmaps are easy to switch out heh
20:12.18 Maloeran Eheh yes. I might try swapping a few textures once I get to worry about eye-candy
20:12.33 mcarp Maloeran: build me a perspective viewport flat shader
20:12.50 Maloeran In BRL-CAD?
20:13.02 mcarp begin spam repeat 2,000,000
20:13.13 mcarp of course
20:13.36 Maloeran It's a bit early for that, I'm supposed to integrate my stuff in there in January or so
20:13.53 Maloeran Until then, I can post crude screenshots :p http://www.rayforce.net/galleon01.png
20:14.20 mcarp that wont do me anygood building csg :P
20:16.48 mcarp whew, you need some normal smoothing
20:18.17 mcarp hey, havent you downloaded the release version yet?
20:19.01 Maloeran I did, not converted it yet. It's a bit low priority, I'm supposed to code and document a bunch of code for last friday
20:19.52 mcarp ah
20:38.07 ``Erik screw smoothed normals, just add more triangles, once they hit the subpixel range, it's all good
20:38.07 Maloeran Nah. Screw triangles, use curved facets
20:38.07 ``Erik heh
20:38.07 Maloeran Triangles are just a special case of curved facets
20:38.07 ``Erik and curved facets are a special case of b-splines, yadda yadda
20:38.08 ``Erik somethin' about hyperdimensional manifolds, blah
20:38.08 ``Erik which, of course, are all just a coarse approximation of a particle render
20:38.10 mcarp and hey, we're all just collections of harmonic bumps in the quantum strata
20:38.11 ``Erik "Today, a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."
20:38.11 ``Erik -billhicks
20:38.12 mcarp gasp
20:38.13 mcarp i suggested to my brother a few weeks ago that after his "death" his particular electro-chemical brain pattern might become manifest in some distant part of the universe
20:38.14 mcarp there was no reply
20:38.14 Maloeran Neat, I think that's a more likely occurance than the existence of some god-guided after-life
20:38.14 mcarp indeed mal
20:38.14 mcarp altho for those who feel they need to believe in such things, i suppose its a matter of syntax
20:39.31 mcarp bbl
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23:59.38 brlcad gah, damn opengl
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060927

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060927

00:12.50 ``Erik um, the irix box?
00:52.41 Twingy "nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217" plz
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01:12.37 danfalck Twingy: can I ask you a question about getting gcam installed?
01:16.32 danfalck Twingy: I asked too soon. I think I know the answer to my earlier question.
01:18.42 danfalck Twingy: I think I'm missing the *.h files for gcam
01:22.23 Twingy k
01:22.31 Twingy impossible
01:22.44 danfalck ok
01:22.55 danfalck let me untar it again
01:24.14 danfalck no *.h files in the tar file
01:25.40 Twingy uh
01:25.50 Twingy none?
01:25.53 danfalck none
01:26.00 Twingy odd
01:26.08 danfalck but I think that I have all the dependencies set up now
01:26.21 danfalck gtk+-2 etc...
01:26.50 Twingy how are you checking if you have headers
01:27.18 danfalck looking in the libgcode and libgui directories
01:27.32 Twingy tar -zxvf gcam_2006_09_23.tgz ?
01:28.09 danfalck maybe I have the wrong one
01:28.20 danfalck gcam-1.0.0.tar.gz
01:28.24 danfalck oh oh
01:29.19 Twingy just for that I'm going to make you nmap me
01:29.32 danfalck ?
01:30.21 Twingy "nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217"
01:30.47 danfalck what's it do? sorry ...
01:31.02 Twingy scans me
01:31.22 danfalck nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217
01:34.05 Twingy and?
01:34.18 danfalck nothing showed up here
01:34.54 danfalck let me try it again
01:35.21 Twingy you're typing this in your terminal windows right?
01:35.40 danfalck Twingy: from bash right?
01:35.46 Twingy yah
01:35.53 danfalck bash terminal
01:36.01 danfalck let me set it up
01:38.43 danfalck ok working now
01:39.06 danfalck here goes:
01:39.08 danfalck Starting Nmap 4.10 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2006-09-26 18:38 PDT
01:39.08 danfalck Interesting ports on 74-92-144-217-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (74.92.144.217):
01:39.08 danfalck Not shown: 97 filtered ports
01:39.08 danfalck PORT STATE SERVICE
01:39.08 danfalck 22/tcp open ssh
01:39.09 danfalck 53/tcp open domain
01:39.11 danfalck 80/tcp open http
01:39.13 danfalck Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 16.418 seconds
01:39.18 Twingy aha!
01:39.20 Twingy good good
01:39.28 Twingy now, nslookup js.cx
01:39.37 danfalck and I found the right gcam file. sorry about that
01:39.44 danfalck ok
01:40.06 danfalck dan@ubuntu:~$ nslookup js.cx
01:40.06 danfalck Server: 68.238.64.12
01:40.06 danfalck Address: 68.238.64.12#53
01:40.06 danfalck Non-authoritative answer:
01:40.06 danfalck Name: js.cx
01:40.07 danfalck Address: 74.92.144.217
01:40.43 Twingy sweet
01:40.48 Twingy now http://www.js.cx
01:40.51 Twingy anything pop up?
01:40.59 Twingy gcam.js.cx rather
01:41.10 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl): removed debugging logging. added code comment.
01:42.17 danfalck yes, it works
01:42.24 Twingy good deal
01:42.25 danfalck it gets to your "project page"
01:42.31 Twingy I just upgraded to comcast at work
01:42.39 Twingy 6mb down, 768 up + static ip
01:43.23 danfalck gcam page works
01:43.47 Twingy great
01:43.50 Twingy okay, back to compiling
01:43.53 danfalck I will install the right file, right after dinner. Thanks
01:43.55 danfalck bbl
01:47.50 Twingy solar panels go up in 4 days
01:58.30 danfalck Twingy: success with gcam!
01:59.56 Twingy much better
02:00.26 danfalck yes
02:00.29 danfalck thank you
02:00.44 Twingy yea, well, it obviously a work in progress
02:00.50 danfalck hey I see on your website that you like to melt aluminum.
02:01.01 Twingy yea
02:01.03 danfalck I did that in my backyard some years ago too
02:01.13 danfalck don't breath the fumes
02:01.24 Twingy I do it outside when its windy
02:01.29 danfalck good idea
02:01.37 Twingy and I hold my breath when stoking it
02:01.49 danfalck can I import anything into gcam. dxf?
02:02.01 Twingy if I do this on a regular basis I'll use my respirator
02:02.07 Twingy nada
02:02.10 danfalck ok
02:02.14 Twingy I'll explain why
02:02.44 Twingy gcam is an environment that is designed to restrict the user from inputing bogus commands
02:03.01 Twingy you could import a dxf sphere
02:03.05 Twingy and bad things happen
02:03.39 danfalck ok
02:03.39 Twingy plus dxf doesn't represent arcs
02:03.48 Twingy gcam is an engineering tool, not an art tool
02:04.24 Twingy designing curvy surfaces is nice and all, but serves little utility to me
02:04.53 Twingy plus it's open source
02:05.02 danfalck well, I was thinking about plates with radius' or chamfers on the outside and pockets or bored holes in them
02:05.08 Twingy so if it evolves (or devolves) into something else it's up to the community
02:05.12 danfalck ok
02:05.20 Twingy you can bevel holes
02:05.23 danfalck are you running it on your mac?
02:05.27 Twingy that's what the extrusion is for
02:05.30 Twingy no, freebsd
02:05.33 danfalck ok
02:05.41 Twingy doing something like this
02:05.42 Twingy \
02:05.43 Twingy <PROTECTED>
02:05.46 Twingy <PROTECTED>
02:05.47 Twingy <PROTECTED>
02:05.51 Twingy is entirely possible
02:06.11 danfalck cool. I will study the code and learn
02:06.18 Twingy you can also make a parabola
02:06.22 Twingy for a bowl
02:06.48 Twingy restrictions have not been implemented yet, so use it at your own risk
02:07.21 danfalck I have the means for checking the code before using it - Axis
02:07.33 danfalck or my backplot in Vectorcam
02:07.43 danfalck or just read the gcode
02:07.51 Twingy my primary focus is getting this toward a release
02:07.54 danfalck which is always a good idea
02:08.04 Twingy so use it, comment on it
02:08.18 danfalck ok I am testing it now
02:19.16 Twingy the biggest thing left is having a folder where all the mill profiles and end mills are stored
02:19.30 Twingy so users can hack a text file to make a new mill profile
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03:17.01 danfalck Twingy: crashed after removing 2 lines in a row
03:21.59 danfalck Twingy: create 4 lines, remove them one at a time starting with the 4th line
03:22.12 danfalck when you reach #2 - crash
03:22.16 danfalck seg fault
03:22.35 danfalck sorry guys, this is not BRLCad info
03:23.58 brlcad close enough
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03:32.57 danfalck bye
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19:41.57 PrezKennedy stupid itunes
21:19.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: Install the facetize_all_regions.tcl script
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060928

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060928

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03:09.40 Maloeran That 1.7 million triangles frigate really kills the raytracing performance, with all its diagonal ropes through the scene. Very stressfull test for a raytracer... I would be interested in knowing how my 200mb of RAM use on this compares with ADRT
03:10.44 Maloeran Or 400mb if I push the quality ( and performance ) high
03:19.04 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for C++ and Objective-C/C++ to the mix
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11:54.20 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/BUGS: fixed rendering toyjeep.g on Windows bug (on 7/6/2006) by using a less rigorouse function to invert a 4x4 matrix in rt_bend_pipe_prep
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13:04.20 Maloeran Does anyone have a recommendation for the best reference for doxygen comments in the BRL-CAD code?
13:05.14 Maloeran I noticed Lee working on libuu's doxygen documentation, though I'm not sure where that libuu is. Not much comes out on find
13:05.56 Maloeran Ah, or perhaps it was libbu
14:01.31 Maloeran Eh, Doxygen is confused about GCC's __attribute__()
14:22.54 ``Erik O.o
14:24.44 Maloeran Feeling any better, Erik?
14:34.32 ``Erik not much, heh
14:35.00 Maloeran :/ Did you go through a x-ray scan just to make sure?
14:38.24 ``Erik yeah, several xrays and a catscan
14:38.50 ``Erik btw, I think I may have an idea on why your code doesn't run so hot on g4/g5 ... gcc 4.0.0
14:39.20 Maloeran Oh hum, that's a possibility. The assembly looked very poor, as little as I know that arch
14:39.49 Maloeran The demo now loads the 1.7 million triangles frigate with caching, if you want
14:40.19 ``Erik yeah, been building for a few minutes
14:40.23 ``Erik it segfaults on my amd64
14:40.35 ``Erik #0 0x0000000801758c88 in stepComputeValue (step=0x522030) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:701
14:40.35 ``Erik 701 step->linkcost[RF_EDGE_MAXZ] = WALK_LINKCOUNT_COST( step->linkcount[ RF_EDGE_MAXZ ] );
14:40.44 Maloeran Hum. Okay
14:41.34 Maloeran I seriously need to speed up that prep eventually, it does a decent job but isn't fast at it
14:42.29 Maloeran Could you p step->linkcount[ RF_EDGE_MAXZ ] on that segfault? It's rather curious
14:44.33 Maloeran Even with low preparation quality, the 'prep' can eat up to 500mb ; if it takes minutes, I think you are swapping...
14:50.23 brlcad src/lib*, there's a list of what each of the various libs do in HACKING and src/README
14:51.11 Maloeran I was more looking for the best reference for the desired doxygen comment style, rather than a specific library
14:54.48 ``Erik it's consuming one whole cpu, 508.19m real, 719.54m virtual, and has been going for 22 minutes
14:54.55 Maloeran Thanks Erik, bug reproductible if I fill all malloc'ed memory with garbage
14:55.09 ``Erik mal: yet another linux vs restoftheworld type issue
14:55.28 Maloeran Woah, it takes less than a minute on a good Athlon
14:56.10 ``Erik I got 1.3m r/s with the m1 a couple days ago
14:56.27 ``Erik I'm wondering if maybe it's caught in an infinite loop due to different rounding behaviors or something
14:56.33 Maloeran I got 2.5-3.0m on my desktop, but the frigate is much more demanding
14:56.55 Maloeran That shouldn't happen, then again, I might have missed something in this new prep written from scratch
14:56.58 ``Erik oh, and *HUGE* stalls on some ops, heh
14:57.09 ``Erik but I think it's a compiler problem more than anything else :/
14:57.20 ``Erik and stupid darwinports won't compile gcc42
14:58.01 Maloeran Yes, the dotproduct4 assembly code was loading all the values just before working on them, instead of scheduling a bit
14:58.30 ``Erik hm, 'real' memory dropped a bit and is creaping back up
14:58.33 ``Erik it must still be doing SOMETHING
14:58.36 ``Erik uh
14:58.38 Maloeran Ahah
14:58.42 ``Erik you don't do something like realloc in that prep, do you?
14:59.04 Maloeran Very rarely, but it will happen
14:59.08 ``Erik hrm
14:59.30 ``Erik it's horrendously expensive on the bsd family since phkmalloc and dmalloc work differently
14:59.32 Maloeran I realloc the table of pages for pointer directories, for sectors/steps/nodes
14:59.37 Maloeran I see.
15:00.20 ``Erik phkmalloc tries to keep things more secure from mmu smashes, so it tries to force memory to be contiguous on the wire, which means a realloc is an ugly naive alloc/copy/dealloc instead of dmalloc's page mangling
15:00.33 Maloeran Gah!
15:00.44 ``Erik MOST unix has a very very slow realloc
15:01.42 ``Erik but mallocing more than you need is 'free', it won't actually hit wire until it's written to, so malloc 2g, use what you want, don't worry about it *shrug* :)
15:02.28 Maloeran Then it's swapping around happily, hence why it takes 22 minutes instead of 40 seconds
15:02.56 ``Erik swap is totally unused right now
15:03.15 Maloeran What is system doing?
15:03.21 ``Erik I d'no *shrug*
15:03.37 ``Erik you're making system calls (wrapped via libc calls, I'm sure) that are expensive
15:04.04 Maloeran There are no system calls but malloc/free/realloc in there
15:04.19 ``Erik malloc and free should be fast
15:04.21 ``Erik there it is
15:04.24 ``Erik realloc is dog slow
15:04.44 Maloeran It's really realloc? The one in mmDir* in mm.c ?
15:07.33 ``Erik hrm, in the raytrace porttion, 9.6% of the time is spent on one op... "cror" (but it's stalled pretty heavy)
15:08.16 Maloeran In the dot product again? :)
15:08.54 ``Erik graphTraceDualOut line 635, the "if(dstdist<=0.0)", which looks like it has to do two sequential tests and then or the results before choosing to branch
15:09.37 ``Erik so to the machine, it looks like "if( dstdist<0.0 || dstdist==0.0 )", requiring both to get out of the pipeline, then feed back in for the or? *shrug*
15:09.52 Maloeran That's quite possible, weird chip you got
15:09.53 ``Erik vs if(!(dstdir>0.0)) which can be streamed
15:09.58 ``Erik it's risc *shrug*
15:10.12 Maloeran dstdist < 0.0 if you prefer, won't make a difference
15:10.32 ``Erik I'm kinda guessing based on what the little comment in shark says, heh
15:10.48 Maloeran Yes I remember
15:10.50 ``Erik 14% of compute time is on that dstdis = _mathPlanePoint(tri->plane, dst) on 634
15:11.22 ``Erik '
15:11.24 ``Erik gheh
15:12.29 Maloeran So I suppose it finished prep'in in the end. Care to profile that part?..
15:12.48 Maloeran I can't see what would take so long, as lazy as some of the code is
15:15.37 Maloeran If you do so, make sure to delete the cache or it will just load it
15:24.40 ``Erik sure, uh, I'll gzip the cache instead, heh...
15:24.55 ``Erik rtch ?
15:24.58 Maloeran Right
15:25.13 ``Erik 100 meg file, huh
15:25.55 Maloeran I was aiming for a bit packed version earlier, I'll switch back to that later
15:26.19 Maloeran ( So if you need 13 bits to identify a sector, it will use that instead of 32 bits )
15:26.46 ``Erik interesting, it starts very user based, and linearly ramps to very system based
15:27.21 Maloeran Anything more precise on what's going on in system?
15:29.49 ``Erik "shandler" sounds familiar?
15:31.03 Maloeran Hum, no?
15:32.25 ``Erik only 15.6 spend outside of mach_kernel
15:32.48 ``Erik the biggest single symbol being vm_map_enter
15:33.02 ``Erik which kinda smells like lots of small alloc's
15:33.33 ``Erik O.O holy forshizzle
15:33.56 ``Erik chunk->prev = (void *)&(mmList); is greviously expensive, if I'm reading this right
15:34.18 Maloeran But... how?
15:34.27 ``Erik stw r0,12(r3)
15:35.24 ``Erik okie, readin that wrong...
15:35.48 ``Erik of the 3% of program time, that op was the big consumer there... still less than 3% total
15:36.07 Maloeran :) I prefer that
15:53.44 ``Erik *shrug* comments and docs would allow other people to understand your stuff more readily and maybe make comments on possible concerns or bottlenecks that you'd otherwise spend a lot of time tracking
15:53.55 ``Erik especially since your environment is pretty homogenous
15:54.31 Maloeran I wanted to try Justin's fbsd box but it only has 256mb of ram
15:55.22 ``Erik mine only has 384, heh
15:55.39 ``Erik my home one, that is
15:56.17 Maloeran I just tried profiling in gprof, and it doesn't profile anything in shared libraries :p, so I profiled my main.c
15:56.45 ``Erik you need to build profiling forms of the shared libraries
15:57.06 ``Erik uhmmm, on fbsd, you'd see like libc.so and libc_p.so where _p.so is for the profiling lib
15:57.25 ``Erik I'm too out of leenewx to remember there, heh
15:57.26 Maloeran Shared libraries were built with -pg as well, anything else?
15:58.47 Maloeran Any sensitive results out of Sharp?
16:01.50 Maloeran "Support for gprof profiling of shared libraries is available on 32-bit systems only." What the...
16:02.20 Maloeran Sorry, nevermind that, specific to HP-Unix
16:02.22 ``Erik shark? I don't think I ran it right, so I'm rerunning it :/
16:06.12 ``Erik stepSampleSort is a bit pricey
16:06.56 Maloeran Like 5% or 40%?
16:07.05 ``Erik 22.6
16:07.31 Maloeran Okay. That's one of the thing I have marked to fix, I'm more wondering about the time spent on "system"
16:08.27 ``Erik sampleAddTri() is a tiny bit expensive, ...
16:09.30 Maloeran Yes... and I'm not even using these lists yet, planning ahead for improvements of the prep
16:10.28 Maloeran Can you throw all the profiling text at me?
16:12.01 ``Erik uhmmmmm, I'm running another set with different time variables
16:35.39 Maloeran So 50% is spent outside the executable itself, that's... cute ;)
16:36.39 ``Erik I d'no if that's because it's a single thread on a dual proc machine, or if it's just not seeing the frame stack correctly when it samples, or if sdl throws threads, or what
16:39.42 Maloeran The model is built before SDL is initialized, and you mentionned the system share starts growing later on
16:40.06 ``Erik hm, part of sdl is initialized before main() iirc
16:40.20 ``Erik it immediately pops up an sdl icon in the doc
16:40.23 ``Erik before the window appears
16:40.24 ``Erik dock
16:41.17 Maloeran Right I see
16:47.26 Maloeran I think I would know how to build shared libraries for gprof'iling, except that everything goes though this libtool thing
16:48.33 ``Erik yeah, I'm not terribly keen on libtool, but dynamic libraries are different on every os :/
16:49.09 ``Erik btw, I msg'd the url there because I can't msg here and I don't know how public you want that info... I'll delete it if you want
16:50.20 Maloeran Ah, nothing sensitive in there
16:53.49 ``Erik ok, thandler is the 'trap handler' and shandler is the 'syscall handler', in the mach kernel (micro, so it's handled via messages and 'servers', not function calls)
16:54.33 Maloeran Trap handler sounds like handling of page faults when running out of ram
16:54.53 Maloeran Syscall handler... Growing the heap size? 25% of the processing time? Gez.
17:06.47 ``Erik hrm, dude, I have 2g of ram and I'm only using like 200m
17:06.53 ``Erik and I never touched swap
17:07.13 ``Erik now the trap might be cache line related or something else *shrug* and itt might be system wide, not just applied to your application
17:09.17 ``Erik I just ran a program to allocate a gig in 1m chunks and write crap to every page... almost no system time consumed in that (16s user, 3s sys)
17:09.35 ``Erik no slowdown in it, so no swap hit
17:10.23 ``Erik about 1.5g I start seeing swap hits
17:11.28 Maloeran Right. I could be mistaken, but the trap handler handles page faults and I don't see what else could be causing faults..
17:13.59 ``Erik page fault is just one kind of trap
17:16.26 ``Erik ok, in the midst of the ugly, the syscall handler is 54% and the trap handler is 21.5%,
17:16.40 ``Erik the trap that consumes most time looks to be "ml_set_interrupts_enabled"
17:17.07 ``Erik only 1% of the time is vm_fault
17:17.28 Maloeran I can't think of any other syscall being made but malloc() and friends
17:17.43 ``Erik "isync" is the big trap abuse
17:17.57 ``Erik context switches force traps and shit, too
17:19.21 ``Erik ok, isync stops new ops from entering the pipeline and waits until the pipeline is empty, "This instruction is context synchronizing"
17:19.39 ``Erik for OS memory management tasks, like changes in the mmu
17:23.22 ``Erik "large_and_huge_malloc" might be related, in mmAlloc under sampleAddTri
17:24.46 Maloeran 20-40k is "large and huge" ?
17:25.15 ``Erik bigger than a page *shrug* I d'no, heh, I'm looking through this stuff more or less lost...
17:25.18 ``Erik <-- doesn't know ppc asm :)
17:25.26 Maloeran #define SAMPLE_TRIANGLES_PER_LIST (4096) could be set to 200k or something *shrug*, to have fewer calls
17:51.38 Maloeran Erik, could one of OSX's "security feature" be to zero malloc() chunks or something? I'm running out of hypotheses
17:52.38 ``Erik might be *shrug* I d'no
17:55.12 Maloeran "The default malloc on OS X causes a large performance degradation relative to the default mallocs on Linux and Solaris."
17:55.16 Maloeran Gah.
17:56.42 Maloeran 50% slower, nothing of the scale we saw here
18:07.06 ``Erik interesting, a significant portion of time looks like it's attribtued to handling l2 cache misses
18:09.45 ``Erik ahhhhhhhhh
18:10.05 ``Erik mmAlloc() cooks up time in a kernel function called "Zero Fill"
18:10.15 Maloeran AHH!!
18:10.26 ``Erik which'd explain cache thrashing
18:10.35 Maloeran _That_ is the reason, I'm allocating a whole bunch and freeing, sometimes without even using the chunks
18:10.59 ``Erik learn somethin' new every day
18:11.22 Maloeran Can you fix that?
18:11.30 Maloeran Can you make malloc() behave in a sane manner?
18:12.32 ``Erik googling for that now... and 'sane' is a phrase that can be argued against... :D quit abusing malloc? *duck*
18:12.37 ``Erik http://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00217.html mentions some
18:12.46 Maloeran Maybe there are multiple memory managers on OSX, as there are multiple threading libraries on fbsd ( and the default one is horrible too )
18:13.17 Maloeran Why would an OS ever memset() malloc'ed chunks? I can do that myself I need it, that's absurd
18:13.28 Maloeran if* I need it
18:13.49 Maloeran The segfault mentionned earlier was fixed too
18:13.56 ``Erik http://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00210.html answers that, heh
18:14.01 ``Erik security mechanism
18:14.11 Maloeran Absurd.
18:16.01 ``Erik http://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/optimizingwithsystemtrace.html and search for "zero-fill"
18:17.25 Maloeran So I have to write my own full-featured memory manager because the OSX manager is too incompetent to care about performance
18:17.48 ``Erik well, the converse argument is that the linux memory manager is too incompetent to care about security
18:17.52 Maloeran That also explains why even the m1a2 was taking so long to prep on your laptops, it's supposed to be a few seconds
18:18.26 Maloeran If a process puts sensitive stuff in RAM, it's the duty of _that_ process to mlock() the memory and clear it accordingly
18:18.44 Maloeran Don't slow down the whole OS for a few chunks of ram that might possibly contain something sensitive
18:19.09 ``Erik heh
18:19.22 ``Erik in the land of incompetent coders... :)
18:19.32 Maloeran mlock() and related functions exist for a good reason
18:19.45 ``Erik yes, as do calloc(), etc...
18:20.33 Maloeran Grah, this is so absurd
18:20.58 ``Erik freebsd does the same thing, apparently
18:21.04 ``Erik http://kerneltrap.org/node/72
18:22.55 Maloeran Seriously, this makes no sense at all. There are POSIX functions to take care of storing sensitive information in RAM
18:23.16 ``Erik ... and if people USED them, then os's wouldn't have to step up and cover
18:24.06 Maloeran This is a _very_ bad fix. Fix the software, don't hack a slow and patchy solution in the OS
18:24.46 ``Erik heh, and it seems to be a hot issue in linux kernel development right now
18:25.23 ``Erik (and if the software is designed to break the os? malicious code exists :/ )
18:26.08 Maloeran Okay. Do you have a full-featured and complete memory manager in BRL-CAD already?
18:26.22 ``Erik http://lists.apple.com/archives/darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00227.html has more
18:26.29 ``Erik yeah, in libbu
18:26.31 ``Erik um
18:26.52 ``Erik but the behavior of "lots of allocs and deallocs" is gonna be slow if it's passed to the os...
18:27.02 Maloeran Seriously, the OS could bzero() pages as the heap grows, but OSX seems to clear even reused pages ; malloc'ing without expanding the heap
18:27.30 Maloeran Normally, malloc() only reaches the OS if the heap has to be extended. Otherwise, it stays entirely in user space
18:27.34 Maloeran On a sane and decent OS anyway
18:28.02 ``Erik erm, ... vm and wm are different, dude
18:29.13 ``Erik (heh, and this is exactly where compacting gc's shine)
18:29.45 Maloeran Checking libbu, I only saw red-black tree stuff there last time
18:30.34 ``Erik I'm pretty sure the libbu memory management is just portable passthrough stuff, though
18:31.36 ``Erik stupid headache *grr*
18:32.00 Maloeran I really don't feel like writing a memory manager to handle broken malloc() implementations, but if I must..
18:32.17 ``Erik <-- thinks it's less broken than linux's :(
18:33.03 Maloeran Surely you agree that if software deals with sensitive information, there are robust and _efficient_ mechanisms to deal with this, instead of having every malloc() call being zero'ed?
18:33.28 ``Erik given the quality of 95% of coders writing 'real' applications, no. I don't.
18:33.34 Maloeran malloc()'ed memory is not supposed to be cleared, it's supposed to be fast
18:34.07 ``Erik hm, I've never thought of malloc as a fast operation *shrug* if you want fast, allocate a big honkin' heap and do it yourself in that...
18:34.33 Maloeran Clearing the new pages as the heap grows would have made a certain sense, but for every malloc call, this is highly absurd
18:34.48 ``Erik ...
18:35.00 ``Erik you cannot make that statement because of how mmu's work.
18:35.21 ``Erik you can free 4k, and then "immediately" alloc 4k, and you are not guaranteed that you got the same 4k back
18:35.33 ``Erik you coudl've gotten one of my pages, or a completely different page altogether
18:35.50 Maloeran Of course not, but it's likely to be within the heap for the process address space
18:36.11 ``Erik ... for the process address space, yes... but not the wired address space
18:36.33 ``Erik physical memory doesn't line up to process memory, that's what the mmu does...
18:36.39 Maloeran The heap never shrinks, the OS doesn't know that the page is now unused
18:36.59 ``Erik erm, which heap? heh
18:37.27 Maloeran The heap of the process ; the memory manager is likely to reuse that page and you'll get what you had previously stored there, without ever making a syscall
18:37.28 ``Erik free() is to mark a heap as unused so it can be culled...
18:37.43 ``Erik and it disassociates it from the wired page
18:37.45 Maloeran So the heap can shrink on OSX? It never does on Linux
18:38.56 Maloeran That seems to be a logical explanation as to why every malloc() call is zero'ed
18:40.27 ``Erik the process heap should be able to shrink on every os :/
18:40.46 ``Erik now the memory address of new allocations is up in the air, but *shrug*
18:42.04 Maloeran You can't shrink the heap on Linux. If it grows high and shrink, unused high pages will eventually be put on swap to make room for other processes, and just forgotten
18:42.15 Maloeran That design has its flaws too ( the swapping )
18:42.17 *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:42.26 ``Erik heh, and eventually oom
18:42.56 cadguy Yo! How is everyone?
18:43.00 ``Erik (might be why I've seen ugly oom's on linux, it's malloc is broken... O:-) )
18:43.18 Maloeran Good afternoon Lee
18:43.35 ``Erik email is sent, lee... subj "Sql"
18:43.36 Maloeran BSD's malloc() seems less broken than OSX still, it clears new pages but not the content of every malloc() call
18:43.44 cadguy Howdy Maloeran
18:44.06 Maloeran Just having a long debate with Erik about why the raytracer's prep is so terribly slow on OSX
18:44.09 ``Erik osX only zerofills when the freshly allocated page is touched, as far as I can tell
18:45.26 Maloeran Now reading libbu's memory manager, I suppose that's the solution to work around inefficient malloc implementations
18:45.27 cadguy Hmm. How many pages are we allocating? Lots?
18:45.40 Maloeran Lots of pages, which are often just unused and freed
18:45.57 Maloeran malloc() is quite fast on Linux as pages are never cleared
18:45.58 cadguy Yes, that's a notorious performance killer.
18:46.09 cadguy That's a security issue.
18:46.45 Maloeran When dealing with sensitive information, processes can mlock() the memory, there are POSIX functions to take care of that
18:47.25 Maloeran But as Erik argued, a dirty and inefficient fix at the OS level seems to be required due to the amount of bad software out there... *shakes head*
18:47.42 cadguy The usual technique is to keep a buffer pool if you want to alloc/free a lot to keep the code easy. Then allocate through your own buffer pool.
18:48.31 ``Erik *nod* allocate a slew of pages, keep 'free' and 'used' linked lists, when one is freed or allocated, just change which list it lives in
18:48.39 cadguy Yea. Lots of lame code mucking around with priviledges. Remember mlock() didn't appear until 4.4BSD.
18:48.41 Maloeran Right. I'm checking libbu, but I won't hide that I'm used to deal with an efficient malloc implementation
18:49.13 ``Erik if you allocate with nothing in the free list, free more... if you're worried about memory consumption, free() some out of the free list when it reaches a threshhold
18:49.28 ``Erik s/efficient/insecure/ :)
18:49.51 Maloeran Yes yes, I got that to deal with many small chunks. I haven't got a full memory manager to deal with chunks of all sizes and shapes
18:49.52 cadguy No reason to hide. Just be aware that there are space/time/security tradeoffs that different OS's make.
18:50.03 ``Erik my bike goes 20kph and stays together, yours goes 30 and kicks the wheels off every 50km
18:50.05 ``Erik :D
18:50.52 Maloeran :) Eh well, time to write a memory manager then!
18:51.24 ``Erik <-- thought that's what mm was supposed to be o.O :)
18:51.56 Maloeran It's not a full-blown memory manager, it has efficient handling of packed tiny chunks, balanced trees, etc.
18:52.47 Maloeran since Linux's malloc() always performed decently for management of medium to large sized chunks
18:53.26 cadguy In general, any time you can avoid a system call, it is worth doing.
18:54.46 Maloeran On Linux, free() never shrinks the heap, so malloc() will always remain in user-space unless the heap has to grow. I realize it's quite different on OSX
18:55.36 cadguy And different on solaris and other Unix's
19:07.54 Maloeran That model really is a challenge for any acceleration structure, the planned second 'prep' pass should improve things a bit... but mostly, ray bundles will
19:08.05 Maloeran That and threads
19:09.48 ``Erik oohhhhh, rfTraceRays() calls malloc, too
19:11.58 Maloeran Only if there are no already allocated 'job' struct in the list, nothing to worry about there
19:15.13 ``Erik that dstdir=mathPlanePoint() line (634) is a major contributor to L2 cache misses (27.5%)
19:15.39 ``Erik second being line 582 "if(src[linkflags&RF_NODE_AXIS_MASK]<NODE(root)->plane)" at 6.6%
19:16.56 Maloeran The prototype had prefetch instructions for caching triangles before the actual tests, that should help
19:17.19 ``Erik memory bandwidth looks like, um, around 200-300 MB/s read and 20-30MB/s write
19:17.32 Maloeran You know, I really like your profiler :)
19:17.50 ``Erik heh, me too, this thing is gnarly
19:18.06 cadguy You really should try to pick it up.
19:18.39 cadguy Want me to talk with Mark?
19:19.30 Maloeran Thanks, just give me 33 hours to receive my first real pay check from Survice assuming the 30 days delay after the end of the month is respected
19:20.19 ``Erik you got your travel expenses and per diem all sorted out, correct?
19:21.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: script for querying a gforge site
19:21.34 Maloeran I had no per diem expenses in August, but sure
19:23.24 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168052970.dsl.bell.ca)
19:23.38 ``Erik dude, if you ever do work related travel, the employer should set everything up and take care of all the (reasonable) expenses...
19:24.34 ``Erik it's chump change to them, a no brainer investment...
19:27.16 Maloeran Ah don't worry, I'll be quite fine. The 30 days delay for a monthly pay is just a bit annoying, after 2-3 months of unpaid vacation anyway ;)
19:27.41 ``Erik rtiBatchNsCallback() is your flat shadow-less shader?
19:27.53 Maloeran Somewhat, yes
20:57.14 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: make script adaptable to host
21:13.00 Maloeran Erik, before I write a bunch of code, do you have Hoard handy to see if the memory manager does a better job?
21:13.25 Maloeran It might clear pages the BSD way even on OSX
22:43.50 ``Erik hoard? nope
23:16.54 Maloeran Oh well. Everything but sectors and steps are now allocated by sliced blocks, these chunks of variable size will have their own personal little memory manager
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060929

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060929

00:24.20 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:10.52 *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:15.23 danfalck Twingy: you around?
02:30.53 Twingy yes
02:30.55 Twingy sec
02:31.08 danfalck hi
02:31.18 danfalck how do you want bugs reported?
02:31.30 danfalck I just opened a
02:31.33 danfalck new tool
02:31.38 danfalck and seg faulted
02:32.50 danfalck after inserting a line
02:34.40 Twingy for now I'll want you to report directly to me since these are minor and can be quickly fixed
02:34.54 Twingy I have made a number of updates over the last 2 days, let me get you the latest, got time?
02:35.06 danfalck email or irc?
02:35.09 Twingy web
02:35.20 Twingy sec
02:35.28 danfalck sure
02:35.45 danfalck give me the web address this time, email is on another machine
02:36.19 Twingy sec
02:36.33 Twingy also
02:36.38 Twingy tell me what your download rate is
02:36.51 danfalck dsl, I'm not sure
02:36.55 Twingy no
02:36.57 Twingy from me
02:37.00 danfalck ok
02:37.26 danfalck is the 'download' url live now on your website?
02:38.53 Twingy no
02:39.02 danfalck ok
02:39.56 Twingy I made a raptor motor mount with gcam today
02:40.03 danfalck cool
02:40.12 danfalck on the Taig?
02:40.16 Twingy yep
02:40.21 Twingy at work
02:40.43 danfalck raptor?
02:40.57 Twingy a heli
02:41.03 danfalck oh
02:41.25 Twingy done downloading?
02:41.37 danfalck no, give me the url
02:43.31 Twingy got the /msg ?
02:45.38 Twingy yes no?
02:45.44 danfalck got it
02:45.53 danfalck 33-40 KB/s
02:46.00 Twingy hum
02:46.11 danfalck I'm on a DSL
02:46.13 Twingy should be higher
02:46.20 Twingy I have 96kB upstream
02:46.39 danfalck ok, going to untar the file, compile, and try it out.
02:46.39 Twingy anyway, compile and run
02:46.41 danfalck thanks
02:46.50 Twingy yah, then we'll step through your first bug
02:47.43 Twingy I wonder if I should video tape the solar installation
02:50.44 danfalck in the middle of 'make'
02:50.49 Twingy k
02:51.00 Twingy I'll fire mine up and we'll move through the same steps together
02:51.38 danfalck once things are the way that you want them, can I make a binary that others using Ubuntu 6.10 could run?
02:51.40 Twingy btw, I'm thinking about offer my mill for remote use for a small fee
02:51.56 Twingy sure, that would be helpful
02:52.16 danfalck which files would be transferable? the gcam bin?
02:52.25 Twingy either that or the gcode
02:52.34 Twingy or dxf
02:52.51 danfalck I just know that there are a lot of guys using Ubuntu Dapper for EMC right now
02:53.00 Twingy k
02:53.08 Twingy I'm still using turbocnc
02:53.26 danfalck you ought to try out emc
02:53.42 danfalck you would probably really get into ti
02:53.43 danfalck it
02:53.47 Twingy why sort of capability does it give me that turbocnc doesn't already?
02:53.53 danfalck a lot \
02:53.54 Twingy *what
02:54.03 danfalck cutter comp for one
02:54.08 Twingy explain
02:54.40 danfalck you can write a tool path in gcode that uses a nominal center line for a particular diameter of tool
02:54.49 danfalck if you use a different sized tool
02:55.04 danfalck you can put the diameter of the tool in a table
02:55.17 danfalck and the control will compensate and cut the path correctly
02:55.25 Twingy gcam does that...
02:55.48 Twingy and turbocnc does that as well
02:55.53 Twingy so either way I'm covered
02:56.17 danfalck sorry, didn't know they had it yet
02:56.22 danfalck do you enter the diameter values for you end mills?
02:56.28 Twingy I don't want to use emc just because it looks like a fancy gui based program
02:56.37 Twingy yes, that's the "Tool" block
02:56.42 Twingy when you create a project
02:56.48 Twingy <PROTECTED>
02:57.06 Twingy eventually I'll add a tab for it
02:57.20 Twingy for tool changing and feed over-ride
02:57.22 danfalck I used emc in 1999 when the gui wasn't so good
02:57.29 danfalck and it worked very well then
02:57.40 Twingy I don't need a fancy g-code processor
02:57.53 danfalck ran 3 machines with it and made a lot of money doing engraving and milling
02:57.53 Twingy something that lets me jog, control velocity, acceleration, and interprets g-code
02:58.07 danfalck all the gui stuff has been added on in the last 4 years.
02:58.10 Twingy 90% of turbocnc I don't use
02:58.21 Twingy and probly 95% of emc I wouldn't use
02:58.25 danfalck ok
02:58.43 danfalck I plan on redoing my Centroid control with emc in the future
02:58.45 Twingy I restrict myself to the very fundamental g-codes
02:58.58 Twingy that way it's guaranteed to work everywhere
02:59.00 danfalck as well as some very large machines at work- kitamura mills
02:59.12 danfalck emc has plc built in
02:59.15 Twingy even on a high school kids g-code processor that only does a few commands
02:59.21 danfalck tool changers can be implemented
03:00.02 Twingy that's all g-code
03:00.09 Twingy supported by turbocnc...
03:00.12 danfalck emc can control hexapods
03:00.23 danfalck rotary axis
03:00.30 Twingy turbocnc can do rotary...
03:00.33 danfalck you name it, it can be done
03:00.50 Twingy I gather I'll really only care about emc when I buy a $100k+ machine
03:00.54 Twingy that has all the bells and whistles
03:01.03 danfalck it can output to true servoes using DA cards
03:01.11 danfalck well, maybe.
03:01.20 Twingy k, let's move into gcam, getting late
03:01.26 danfalck you might someday get really interested in it
03:01.29 danfalck ok
03:01.37 danfalck still in 'make' stage
03:01.39 danfalck hm
03:01.44 Twingy whu?
03:01.48 Twingy you on a 386?
03:01.52 danfalck this one's taking longer than I remember
03:01.53 danfalck no
03:01.57 danfalck 1.0 ghz amd
03:02.04 Twingy should compile in 10 seconds
03:02.35 danfalck I see an error about missing automake-1.7 something
03:02.45 danfalck i'll kill it and try again
03:02.46 Twingy kill autom4te.cache
03:02.56 Twingy and autoreconf -vis && ./configure
03:03.19 danfalck ok
03:03.37 danfalck rm the whole directory?
03:03.46 danfalck autom4....
03:04.33 Twingy rm -rf autom4te.cache
03:06.23 Twingy I'm running gcam/turbocnc on a PIII-450 w/ 256MB at work
03:06.32 Twingy runs great
03:07.13 danfalck .deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.5e+03 s in the future
03:07.15 Twingy using an AMD semrpon 1.4GHz in the garage
03:07.21 danfalck running into warnings
03:07.26 danfalck during make
03:07.27 Twingy don't worry about warning
03:09.06 danfalck yeh this is weird. it's taking way too long compared to the last one
03:09.30 Twingy no problems here...
03:09.35 danfalck /bin/sh /home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/missing --run automake-1.7 --gnu libgcode/Makefile
03:09.35 danfalck cd .. && /bin/sh ./config.status libgcode/Makefile depfiles
03:09.35 danfalck config.status: creating libgcode/Makefile
03:09.35 danfalck config.status: executing depfiles commands
03:09.36 danfalck make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:09.36 danfalck make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:09.38 danfalck make[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.3e+03 s in the future
03:09.49 Twingy just sitting there?
03:09.55 Twingy do this
03:09.57 Twingy rm -rf .deps
03:10.01 danfalck looks like it's in a loop
03:10.04 danfalck ok will do
03:10.19 danfalck did it
03:10.23 danfalck what next/
03:10.26 danfalck ?
03:10.39 Twingy 24s to compile on AMD64 2.2Ghz over nfs
03:10.45 danfalck throw away the cache directory
03:10.45 Twingy autoreconf -vis
03:10.49 Twingy yea
03:10.56 Twingy ./configure
03:10.57 Twingy make
03:14.27 Twingy working?
03:14.36 danfalck trying something
03:21.45 danfalck sorry, still problems
03:21.56 danfalck tried automake 1.8
03:22.01 danfalck and got errors
03:22.04 danfalck went back to 1.7
03:22.10 danfalck different errors
03:23.12 Twingy k
03:23.29 Twingy I'm using 1.9.6
03:23.34 Twingy you should get 1.9 automake
03:23.39 danfalck ok will do
03:23.49 Twingy and autoconf 259
03:24.24 danfalck got 2.59
03:24.34 danfalck doing 1.9 now
03:24.56 Twingy k
03:25.13 danfalck using synaptic. a lot of times it's not very up to date and I have to go get the source
03:25.25 danfalck we'll see how it does
03:26.20 Twingy k, keep me posted
03:26.37 danfalck ok. I'll work through it and get back with you tommorrow
03:27.12 Twingy m'kay...
03:31.34 danfalck can make get screwed up with the time that the file was created?
03:31.46 danfalck it keeps saying the file was created in the future
03:31.54 danfalck you're on the east coast right?
03:32.09 danfalck g directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:32.09 danfalck make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:32.10 danfalck make[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 1.9e+03 s in the future
03:33.16 Maloeran touch the file(s) or modify it
03:33.44 danfalck thanks
03:39.05 danfalck that was it
03:39.12 danfalck timestamp problem
03:39.36 danfalck compiled and gcam works now
03:45.05 Twingy k
03:45.09 Twingy ready to step through?
03:45.19 danfalck yes I've been playing with it
03:45.27 danfalck removing lines doesn't crash it now
03:46.39 danfalck do you want to do the private msg thing for a short tutorial?
03:46.52 danfalck or does it matter here?
03:47.14 Twingy here is fine
03:47.30 danfalck ok, I start by creating a new project
03:47.33 Twingy yep
03:47.36 danfalck insert a sketch
03:47.42 Twingy after a tool
03:47.50 danfalck ok after the tool
03:47.56 danfalck yep got it
03:48.01 Twingy otherwise the sketch doesn't know what tool
03:48.08 danfalck then start inserting lines and arcs
03:48.13 Twingy yes
03:48.28 danfalck whoops, just seg faulted
03:48.31 Twingy insert lines and arcs into the extrusion to give it depth
03:48.39 Twingy can you repeat?
03:48.54 danfalck ok, I inserted a tool
03:48.59 danfalck inserted sketch
03:49.05 danfalck inserted 8 lines
03:49.05 Twingy a second tool?
03:49.11 danfalck removed 8 lines
03:49.19 danfalck moved cursor up to sketch
03:49.31 danfalck tried to insert another line and it seg faulted
03:49.37 Twingy testing
03:49.37 danfalck I will open it again
03:49.57 danfalck creating project
03:50.06 danfalck tool change is in there automatically
03:50.15 danfalck inserting sketch
03:50.43 Twingy I did insert sketch, insert 8 lines, remove 8 lines, remove sketch, no crash
03:50.44 danfalck insert line
03:50.49 danfalck insert line
03:50.53 danfalck removed them both
03:50.58 danfalck tried to insert line
03:51.00 danfalck crash
03:51.08 Twingy what was selected when inserting the line
03:51.21 danfalck I'll try again
03:51.35 danfalck sorry didn't catch what was selected
03:51.41 danfalck will watch more carefully
03:52.51 danfalck ok, I think I know what happened
03:53.03 danfalck nothing was selected when I tried to insert the line
03:53.09 danfalck let me try again
03:53.12 Twingy k
03:53.21 danfalck yes that's it
03:53.34 danfalck if nothing is selected and you try to insert it crashes
03:53.39 Maloeran You should run it in gdb to have a backtrace at least
03:53.51 Twingy yep
03:53.53 Twingy just noticed that
03:54.00 Twingy I'll fix that
03:54.06 danfalck ok
03:54.12 Twingy something should always be selected
03:54.13 danfalck I'll be more careful now
03:54.26 Twingy remove needs to select something after it removes
03:55.37 danfalck how about adding this: when completing a line segment, instead of having to click on the Update parameters button, let 'return' also update the line
03:56.01 danfalck not bad, but convenient
03:56.04 Twingy yea, bunch more gui code
03:56.12 Twingy I'd rather get rid of the button
03:56.19 Twingy and make each widget event update
03:56.20 danfalck yep
03:56.25 Twingy but that doubles gui code
03:57.19 Twingy here's something for you to try
03:57.25 Twingy make a bowl
03:57.35 danfalck ok, can I load the sample
03:57.39 Twingy no
03:57.46 danfalck darn
03:57.48 Twingy see if you can figure it out
03:58.40 Maloeran Do you provide a 3d view of the result?
03:59.00 Twingy yes
03:59.09 Maloeran *nods* Nice
03:59.21 danfalck I can get top and side views, but haven't found the iso view
03:59.32 Twingy if you click on the sketch
03:59.41 Twingy use the right mouse button to rotate
03:59.58 Twingy you'll see it in 3d if you have extrusions applied
04:00.06 danfalck ok now I see it
04:00.24 Twingy Render is currently broken
04:00.33 Twingy so it'll give you wrong results
04:02.16 Twingy once bore, bolt holes, and bezier get in there it should prove to be quite powerful
04:05.06 Twingy ok, I think I can fix remove now
04:05.54 danfalck ok, had to cheat , but I see how you did the bowl....
04:06.06 danfalck arc inserted after extrusion
04:06.17 danfalck then arc inserted below that
04:07.00 danfalck i like the extrusion resolution feature
04:08.17 Twingy good
04:08.44 Twingy I think people will find that modeling with extrusions is quite powerful
04:09.25 danfalck that is very handy
04:09.49 Twingy tried generating g-code yet?
04:10.09 danfalck I have previously, with no problem
04:10.14 Twingy k
04:10.16 danfalck let me do it with this bowl
04:10.49 Twingy oh heh, I forgot to fix the bowl
04:11.21 danfalck looks ok
04:11.39 Twingy it's totally wrong
04:11.46 Twingy it doesn't look like a bowl to me
04:11.54 danfalck just need to have some way of setting up safety blocks and other machine specific code
04:12.04 Maloeran Going to build your own aluminium bowls anytime soon? :)
04:12.07 danfalck I have a bowl here : )
04:12.08 Twingy safety blocks?
04:12.22 danfalck G90 G17 G49 etc...
04:12.29 Twingy for what purpose
04:12.33 danfalck code that resets machine, just in case....
04:13.05 danfalck say you ran you machine in MDI mode, while setting up the part and you left something dangling out there such as a G91 incrementa command
04:13.16 danfalck it could save you from a physical crash
04:13.30 danfalck incremental / incrementa
04:13.37 Twingy I don't do incremental
04:13.43 Twingy and that's what the render is for
04:13.45 Twingy if you see something bogus
04:13.50 Twingy you fix it before getting to the machine
04:13.59 Twingy if you see your end mill crashing 5 feet below the table
04:14.01 Twingy you don't run it
04:14.01 danfalck I don't either , but being able to taylor the code to the machine is good practice in industry
04:14.15 Twingy there is a "Code" block
04:14.21 Twingy I don't have it exposed right now
04:14.27 danfalck ok
04:14.33 Twingy you can insert those at your own risk
04:14.55 danfalck to me a good text editor for the g-code is worth a lot
04:14.58 Twingy what are the params on your extrusion arc
04:15.00 Twingy for the bowl
04:15.28 danfalck extrusion arc is at X 0, Y0
04:15.32 danfalck Radius .5
04:15.40 danfalck start angle 180
04:15.45 danfalck sweep -90
04:15.58 Twingy eh
04:16.04 danfalck other arc is at position x 1 y 1
04:16.06 Twingy upside down bowl?
04:16.09 danfalck radius
04:16.11 danfalck yep
04:16.18 Twingy oh heh
04:16.22 danfalck I was just thrashing around
04:16.23 Twingy that should be:
04:16.32 danfalck it's my upside down cnc router
04:16.47 danfalck tipped the bowl over
04:16.59 Twingy 0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90
04:17.04 Twingy if you want the fixed bowl
04:17.13 danfalck that fixed it ;)
04:17.23 Twingy heh
04:17.31 Twingy I want to build a larger mill in gcam
04:17.35 Twingy using my taig
04:17.38 Twingy 2x the size
04:17.56 danfalck I could sell you mine , but shipping would be expensive
04:17.59 Twingy broken up in many parts
04:18.10 Twingy no, I want people making their own mills
04:18.14 Twingy start with a taig
04:18.20 Twingy and build a super precise monster mill
04:18.41 danfalck I used to really be into that - melting my own aluminum , making the lathe
04:19.03 danfalck but then people wanted me to make other parts for them for money
04:19.05 Twingy I need to buy magnesium
04:19.23 Twingy I haven't gotten to the part where people will pay me for parts yet
04:19.38 Twingy I would like to do that in spare time
04:20.23 Twingy in the mean time I'll try and sell some rocket nozzles
04:21.07 danfalck the purchase and modification of the tools/toys can be addictive
04:21.14 danfalck my garage is full of them
04:21.21 Twingy that's good so long as it serves a utility
04:21.46 Twingy I am missing 2 tools
04:21.56 Twingy a 24" or 36" lathe, and a band saw
04:22.14 Twingy the band saw I can afford relatively soon
04:22.41 danfalck ok turned the bowl right side up
04:22.53 Twingy I am going to buy a sliding table for my 3/4 HP drill press and use it to plane with a 1/2" end mill
04:23.03 Maloeran You two need to move next to each other ;), or in a neighbourhood of aluminium melters
04:23.11 danfalck extrusion arc is now: X .5 Y 0 R .5 Start angle 270 Sweep 90
04:23.28 Twingy 0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90
04:23.31 Twingy works too
04:24.17 Twingy I'm not going to buy a 1 ton mill just for planing
04:24.21 danfalck Twingy: are you a brlcad developer?
04:24.25 Twingy err 1/2 ton mill
04:24.31 Twingy danfalck, used to be
04:24.42 Twingy I do robots now
04:24.47 danfalck cool
04:25.03 danfalck do you program for a living?
04:25.18 Twingy used to, now it's only half of what I do
04:25.31 danfalck do you do robotics at work?
04:25.35 Twingy yah
04:25.38 danfalck nice
04:25.50 danfalck automation for industry?
04:26.11 Twingy surveillance type stuff
04:26.23 Maloeran Or autonomous shooting targets on wheels, I thought
04:26.39 danfalck ok
04:26.40 Twingy that too
04:27.17 Twingy whatever is fun
04:27.20 danfalck I do tooling design and some machine design
04:27.33 Twingy when this stuff gets boring in a few years I'll move into biology or chem
04:27.50 danfalck robotics boring?
04:27.53 danfalck never
04:28.16 Twingy I don't like to stick in a field once I hit the point of diminish returns
04:28.31 Twingy things become too predictable
04:28.47 Twingy when I wake up and know what I'll be doing 1 year from now it's time to find a new job
04:30.03 Twingy the only difficult part with that is having to 'prove' yourself to the new people you work with
04:30.24 Twingy people sorta look at you like you're useless for the first few weeks
04:30.38 Twingy something to expect when moving around alot
04:30.39 Maloeran No pronounced interest in raytracing hardware design yet? ;) Lee seemed interested, and Survice surprisingly offered backing on this crazy project
04:31.09 Twingy Maloeran, I am interested in lots of things, ray-tracing hardware included, but list my interested in order of priority
04:31.34 Maloeran Right, and I guess it isn't too close to the top
04:31.36 Twingy ray-tracing is a communications medium, it puts pixels on the screen
04:31.50 Twingy I know what I'll be doing in 5 years from now if I continue with ray-tracing
04:31.59 Twingy not interested in that rat-race
04:32.10 danfalck Twingy: could I try to DCC a file to you? (not sure if I can get through my network)
04:32.13 Twingy bottom line is it puts colored pixels on my screen
04:32.15 danfalck screenshot
04:32.23 Twingy post it on a web server
04:32.27 danfalck ok
04:33.35 Twingy Maloeran, I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to work
04:33.50 Twingy Maloeran, I have no real need for ray-tracing for my personal objectives atm
04:34.22 Twingy I do have a need to build parts though
04:34.29 Twingy so now I do that at work
04:34.57 Twingy I may get to a point where I need to do fluid simulations and hop over to CISD for a while
04:35.31 Maloeran And no need to do radar signatures or anything else that would involve ray-tracing? ;) All right, understood
04:35.44 Twingy not at the moment, no
04:36.19 Twingy bottom line is it doesn't accomplish anything I want done right now
04:38.00 Twingy I think remove is fixed, testing
04:38.10 Maloeran The way this is going, the most interested people are Kutulu and a norwegian programmer. I suppose that could work even on the internet
04:38.27 Twingy of course it can
04:38.43 Twingy remember, when you are done your ray-tracing phase, I want to work with you on a project
04:39.29 Maloeran Right. That's something I'm quite interested to as well
04:39.43 Maloeran I just never explored hardware design before so it has a certain appeal
04:41.24 Twingy take notes on the epistemological patterns you recognize during the next several years
04:41.40 Twingy hardware is part 2 of the project
04:42.37 danfalck Twingy: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/dan's_screenshot_092806.png
04:42.45 danfalck simple, but ther it is
04:42.55 danfalck there
04:43.37 Twingy little outside your workspace no?
04:44.09 danfalck yep a little large
04:44.13 danfalck sorry
04:44.40 Twingy I'll fix that
04:44.55 Twingy after I get preferences menu working
04:50.06 Twingy tomorrow I hope to have bolt holes done
04:51.11 danfalck I need to do some reading. I'll chat with you later. thanks
04:51.21 Twingy k, thank you
04:55.52 Twingy remove is fixed
05:20.17 danfalck good night
09:58.10 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
20:13.30 *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:20.47 archivist a bit like caches, get it wrong and they slow you down
21:22.08 Maloeran Or drive you into subtle and difficult to track memory corruption somewhere
21:24.28 archivist I did a map program years ago in turbo pascal, cached the map in blocks, 64 needed accross the page but could only fit 63 in memory so EVERY block/line was a cache fail
21:25.44 Maloeran Mmhm, sounds like fun too
21:27.52 archivist one learns to grab enough space after that, re organising the map data didnt help either
21:28.49 archivist this is way back in 80286 days or maybe earlier
21:29.54 Maloeran Neat. I never really knew anything prior to 80386
21:31.23 archivist it drew a circular profile of a section of the map to check line of sight for radio work
21:33.25 Maloeran May I ask if you are involved in brl-cad or an user of the software?
21:34.38 archivist will be a user when a few things get done
21:35.47 archivist eg when its a solidworks killer and as easy to use
22:10.29 Maloeran Erik, seems a full-featured memory manager on top of malloc for medium-large chunks improves performance even on Linux
22:11.07 Maloeran I expect the gain to be much more dramatic on platforms with an overzealous free() like OSX
22:15.06 Maloeran How portable are brk()/sbrk()? It's still relying on malloc() under the hood
22:54.26 Twingy went up on the roof twice today, the anchor bolt and chain are up and the pvc conduits are cut
22:58.26 Twingy two of the purchases I made today were $6.66 and $11.11
23:02.16 Twingy not gonna go for -10,000?
23:02.28 Maloeran I could try but I don't think they'll let me :)
23:02.39 Twingy do you get an overdraft charge?
23:03.00 Maloeran Unsure what overdraft means, but there are interests of course
23:03.05 Twingy bank of america charges you $30 if you go below $0.00
23:03.16 Twingy for every day I think
23:03.39 ``Erik mal: performance gain by customizing memory management is a classic angle...
23:03.40 Maloeran Eh no, I can go down to -5000CAD without problems but interests to pay
23:04.06 Maloeran I'm aware of that for tiny packed chunks, Erik, I didn't think I could gain anything from managing huge chunks of variable and random sizes
23:04.35 ``Erik your pattern is extremely rapid... and in general, malloc and free are not cheap operations :)
23:05.34 Maloeran Anyhow, I gained about 7% of preparation time on Linux. That'll probably be in the hundred percents on the OSX malloc thing
23:08.51 Maloeran I don't suppose it would be acceptable for me to play with brk()/sbrk() directly, unfortunate
23:51.40 ``Erik sbrk and brk are, uh, old school... modern implementations are hacks on normal malloc...
23:53.05 Maloeran Old school? It's either growing the heap or using mmap, not many other ways to allocate memory
23:53.48 ``Erik sbrk and brk are assuming the notions of segment based memory
23:53.54 ``Erik we all use paged memory these days...
23:54.05 ``Erik things are different, dude... linux will catch up some day ;)
23:54.45 ``Erik (bear in mind... linux is mostly designed around 80's low end ideology)
23:55.14 Maloeran Linearly growing the address space by brk() is usually quite reasonable, for most needs
23:56.04 ``Erik growing address space is reasonable... linearly via brk() symantics? that's, uh... obsolete.
23:56.57 Maloeran Otherwise, you can allocate pages by mmap() wherever you want in the address space, I suppose that can be handy to avoid synchronisation when you got many cores around
23:58.10 ``Erik dude... mmu's changed a lot. :(
23:58.51 Maloeran Maybe I'm outdated, the last time I wrote some kind of OS was on a 486
23:59.11 Maloeran I read Linux memory manager later on, but you claim that's outdated too
23:59.31 ``Erik 486 had a real mmu and could do full-on paged access
23:59.52 Maloeran Indeed
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060930

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060930

00:01.22 ``Erik I would recommend procuring a non-linux machine... be it private procurement, dual boot on existing hw, or convincing the company to supply you...
00:01.56 ``Erik given your interest in shark, I'd ask the company about shipping you a g[45] based mac...
00:02.01 Maloeran FreeBSD then? That'll install on the desktop
00:02.06 Maloeran Or OSX *shivers*
00:02.43 ``Erik in your dicussions with the company... I use a dual g5 osX tiger tower as my daily machine...
00:03.02 ``Erik and I'm the one on the hook to tell arl "aye" or "nay" on your progress
00:03.21 ``Erik so with that argument, you might be able to get a free dual g5 tower out of the company...
00:03.22 ``Erik :)
00:03.43 Maloeran Understood :)
00:04.09 ``Erik heh, don't be scared of me :)
00:04.26 Maloeran I don't really see how G4/G5 hardware could be a significant target though, I understand about the OSX part
00:04.27 ``Erik I mean, I'm installing X on my dual opteron... :)
00:04.48 ``Erik erm
00:04.50 ``Erik quad, rather
00:05.02 ``Erik I'm just noting what I have on my desk
00:05.13 ``Erik and, uh, it happens to have better support for profiling... O:-)
00:06.32 ``Erik (also bear in mind... company $'s are on a far different scale than you&me dollars...)
00:06.34 Maloeran True, I needed a full memory manager anyway. I'm presently hesitating about the way to priotirize lower blocks in order to allow blocks to be freed when memory use drops
00:07.31 ``Erik personally, I believe that: the greater variety of hw and os you have available; the better software you are able to produce.
00:08.09 ``Erik if you want, either lee or myself will talk to the company to ensure that you are adequately equiped
00:08.50 Maloeran Thanks but don't bother them. The pay is quite enough, once I receive it anyway
00:09.17 ``Erik ...
00:09.23 ``Erik dude, they could send you half a dozen machines without blinking...
00:12.15 Maloeran I don't need that though. I would be very satisfied with just the pay to acquire what I need, really
00:14.08 Maloeran Any thoughts on priotirizing memory blocks to allow some to be freed? I just aimed for a "best fit" allocation, but memory use then obviously remains high after use
00:14.34 ``Erik it's a topic of "OS" research...
00:14.53 ``Erik a guess at lru or mru would probably be "adequate"
00:21.51 Maloeran realloc() does not garantee to preserve data in place if you shrink, which I often found annoying ; fortunately that one does
01:01.13 ``Erik realloc doesn't guarantee to preserve data in place period.
01:32.47 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
01:39.46 *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
03:47.02 Twingy hi dan
03:51.54 danfalck Twingy: hi
03:52.04 Twingy oh, hi dan
03:52.14 Twingy I just finished bolt holes
03:52.17 danfalck cool
03:52.30 Twingy I am going to add Duplicate on Sunday
03:52.32 danfalck I did a bolt hole calculator in python for my stuff here
03:52.41 Twingy and Rotation angle into Sketch
03:52.43 danfalck tkinter gui
03:53.05 Twingy Bolt Hole goes in a Sketch
03:53.19 Twingy so you can have your extrusion applied to each hole
03:53.26 Twingy i.e. give each on a taper
03:53.55 Twingy or a recess to do flush mounting
03:54.05 danfalck can you output drilling canned cycles ie G81
03:54.16 Twingy is that pecking?
03:54.25 danfalck just straight drilling
03:54.36 danfalck pecking is G82
03:54.54 Twingy erm
03:54.59 Twingy not sure what 81 does for you
03:55.15 danfalck if you have big machine, it will do it
03:55.16 Twingy specify hole locations for drilling
03:55.23 Twingy do what?
03:55.38 Twingy grab a drill bit?
03:55.45 danfalck drill without pecking, depends on material, coolant etc
03:55.55 Twingy I just mill the holes
03:56.56 Twingy welp, got to get to bed for solar installation tomorrow
03:57.03 Twingy night
03:57.05 danfalck talk to you later
03:57.07 danfalck have fun
15:43.56 Maloeran Hey Erik, please share the results if you try the new prep on OSX, I would be interested to know if the memory manager fixed the slowness
16:01.06 Maloeran It's 3.5 seconds on the M1 here, I should be able to get that to about 2 seconds
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19:29.49 ``Erik hum, on my 1.25 g4 lappie, the prep took 36.6 seconds with the latest code, mal
19:56.33 Maloeran Gah.
19:56.57 Maloeran And that's on the M1 model? *grumbles*
19:58.28 Maloeran Was it an improvement in any way at least?... Do you think you can put up any new figures on where the time is being spent? This is puzzling
20:02.41 Maloeran I guess the assumption of an overzealous free() that releases pages constantly, just to allocate them again which require zero'ing them, was wrong
20:03.58 Maloeran My 1.8ghz Sempron takes 5 seconds
20:18.43 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061001

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061001

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04:07.24 livid hello
16:00.15 *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061002

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061002

00:04.45 *** join/#brlcad livid (n=livid@c-71-193-197-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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23:45.48 jessi I feel foolish, and need help installing brlcad on linux :'(
23:46.08 dtidrow_work should be a piece of cake
23:47.07 jessi Well, I dont know were to CD to. :/
23:47.16 Maloeran ./configure --prefix=/usr && make && make install ?
23:47.30 jessi just type that in without cding anything?
23:47.51 Maloeran Type that from the brlcad-something directly after unpacking the archive
23:47.57 dtidrow_work I take it you untarred the tarball already?
23:48.06 jessi Yes
23:48.26 Maloeran Then type that from the newly created brlcad-* directory
23:48.28 dtidrow_work eg. 'tar xvjf brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2' - will create a 'brlcad-7.8.2 directory
23:49.17 dtidrow_work so just cd into that, and run './configure'
23:49.42 dtidrow_work then 'make' once cinfigure is finished
23:49.56 dtidrow_work configure (damn fingers....)
23:51.24 Maloeran Some distributions don't put /usr/local stuff in default paths, hence why I suggested --prefix
23:52.03 dtidrow_work ah - ./configure worked fine for me on FC4 :-)
23:52.26 jessi I am on ubuntu :/
23:52.53 Maloeran Ouch, ouch. I think you'll have serious problems compiling anything without installing dozens of "developper" package
23:53.04 dtidrow_work haven't had a chance to work with it yet, though I may stick it on my work laptop soon
23:53.05 jessi I installed those
23:53.34 jessi I would rather be using BSD, but I have a ton of files and dont want to lose them.
23:53.44 jessi and too many to conventionally save onto disks
23:55.15 jessi Oh, I have been tricked. D:
23:55.34 jessi I had to extract one file, then another from that file to get some of the make stuff.
23:59.07 jessi Thanks a ton. <3
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061003

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061003

02:41.47 *** join/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net)
02:41.58 LibertyTrooper Hello
02:42.03 LibertyTrooper Anyone home?
02:44.08 Twingy Jeep Liberty, Isuzu Trooper?
02:44.27 LibertyTrooper Libertarian in a Honda
02:45.09 LibertyTrooper Actually, I have a password program that I also use to generate forum nick's.
02:45.16 LibertyTrooper And this is what it came up with.
02:46.00 LibertyTrooper Are you familiar with running BRLCad on OSX?
02:57.39 brlcad several are
02:57.53 brlcad best to just ask your real question :)
02:59.09 LibertyTrooper Well... I cannot get mged to run at all.
03:00.31 brlcad if you run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in xterm, what does it do?
03:00.45 LibertyTrooper it gives me an error. One moment.
03:00.56 brlcad ~pastebin
03:00.57 ibot pastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net
03:04.07 LibertyTrooper One moment while I figure out why X won't start now.
03:11.44 LibertyTrooper http://pastebin.ca/189491
03:12.26 brlcad ack
03:12.29 brlcad opengl error
03:12.34 brlcad what's your video card there?
03:12.49 brlcad and what depth is your display set to?
03:12.58 LibertyTrooper Whatever comes in a Macbook Pro ... :)
03:13.10 brlcad hmmm..
03:13.16 brlcad did you compile yourself?
03:13.20 brlcad or using the binary
03:13.32 LibertyTrooper I'm using the binary.
03:14.23 brlcad that's somewhat odd then..
03:14.24 LibertyTrooper I suppose I could try to compile it myself. But its been years since I compiled anything under X much less any flavor of Unix.
03:14.58 LibertyTrooper I've got the Apple X11 installation straight from the CD ( I just installed it again to make sure everything was vanilla)
03:15.18 brlcad compiling under the macbook pro's hasn't been fully tested yet frankly as I've been putting more effort into decoupling from X11 instead
03:15.27 LibertyTrooper Its a Radeon X1600 with 256/VRAM
03:15.51 LibertyTrooper (video)
03:16.01 brlcad it could be some rosetta/x11 issue
03:16.16 brlcad it's not a universal binary there
03:16.42 brlcad does mged -c work?
03:17.12 brlcad that kicks off classic console mode
03:17.55 LibertyTrooper seems to start a console. Asks me to attach nullXlog?
03:18.37 brlcad nu
03:18.40 LibertyTrooper Sorry. I suppose that BRLCad is something that is way beyond my meager skills. I simply wanted to take a look at it because we do a lot with Motion control etc.
03:19.06 brlcad ooh, here's a thread on the apple mailing list -- some issue with the x11 intel binary
03:19.09 LibertyTrooper Its got an mged prompt
03:19.40 brlcad that's good to know -- correlates with the mailing list info I just found -- go ahead and quit and try this:
03:19.44 brlcad export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1
03:19.47 brlcad then try again
03:19.51 brlcad (without -c)
03:20.03 dtidrow always inderect?
03:20.17 dtidrow indirect, rather
03:20.37 LibertyTrooper Got what seems to be the editor :)
03:20.54 Maloeran Indirect opengl rendering, if there's no real hardware implementation available..
03:21.30 brlcad yeah, it's bypassing the x11 opengl context, there seems to be a bug or endian issue at least in the x11 client
03:21.46 brlcad (according to this mini-thread I just stumbled across)
03:21.54 dtidrow yuck
03:22.09 brlcad means nothing to mged, doesn't need/benefit
03:22.29 dtidrow probably, but sucks for other things
03:22.40 LibertyTrooper Ok. Now I can being to figure this out. Thanks *very* much.
03:22.46 LibertyTrooper I can begin
03:22.49 brlcad LibertyTrooper: glad it worked, good to know
03:23.04 brlcad LibertyTrooper: the tutorial series on the website is generally the place to start
03:23.07 brlcad and the other docs there
03:23.12 dtidrow you guys see the latest in SCOvWorld saga?
03:23.15 brlcad http://brlcad.org
03:23.19 LibertyTrooper I've downloaded them all.
03:23.49 brlcad LibertyTrooper: ah, best of luck then -- feel free to report any problems or make feature requests that come to mind
03:23.56 brlcad dtidrow: nope
03:24.02 LibertyTrooper SCO... are they still around?
03:24.09 dtidrow barely
03:24.41 dtidrow and if IBM & Novell get their way, SCO will be in Chap7 by the end of the year
03:25.40 dtidrow Novell wants their 95% cut of the extra licenses that SCO sold to Sun and M$
03:25.57 brlcad heh
03:26.08 LibertyTrooper Ok. Funny.. I used to work with SCO systems 90-92... Was "adequate" system and company then. Very good support; relatively speaking.
03:26.13 dtidrow which is about $25M - SCO is only worth $40M
03:27.01 dtidrow this is NewSCO - used to be (and soon will be again) Caldera
03:27.03 dtidrow ;-)
03:27.23 LibertyTrooper <PROTECTED>
03:27.33 dtidrow heh
03:27.37 LibertyTrooper but = buy
03:27.44 LibertyTrooper I cannot type today it seems.
03:27.45 dtidrow or get in on an IPO
03:28.49 brlcad and to this a lot of this started over sco's left hand not knowing what their right hand did years before, releasing some of their own abi and code as open source
03:29.29 brlcad later finding that code in the linux kernel and thinking oh noes! dey stole frum us!
03:29.30 dtidrow I've still got some VA Software stock from their IPO - was able to get 100 shares at $30, sold 20 at $210, another 20 at $104, kept the rest
03:30.26 LibertyTrooper I remember years ago, when I was in the Army, that SCO seemed to be everywhere :)
03:30.59 dtidrow brlcad: it was more like "We need some money fast - let's extort IBM!"
03:31.41 dtidrow they are now caught between an irrestible force and an immovable object
03:31.43 LibertyTrooper Bah... Whomever the CEO is, cannot hope for another job after this mess :)
03:32.11 brlcad dtidrow: well, that too -- i think it sort of snowballed and got out of control
03:32.15 dtidrow LibertyTrooper: we expect him to do a perp walk in a year or so
03:32.21 Maloeran SCO hasn't met a horrible and painful death yet?
03:32.27 LibertyTrooper Yeah, dead in the water certainly is immovable (Novell)
03:32.39 dtidrow Maloeran: check groklaw - the fat lady is warming up :-)
03:36.14 LibertyTrooper Its a concert that I don't care about because the music has already been played out.
03:40.18 dtidrow heh
03:40.37 dtidrow c'mon, the blood is starting to flow :-)
03:41.30 LibertyTrooper I've enough going on trying to get used to using my Mac :)
03:41.50 LibertyTrooper Though, what I've learned has convinced me that this is going to be my platform for a long time.
03:42.15 LibertyTrooper Especially now that there is decent virtualization with Parallel
03:45.58 LibertyTrooper Man, its a beautiful night here in Las Vegas... Temperature and humidity are perfect here on the patio.
03:46.20 LibertyTrooper Where is everyone else?
03:49.54 Maloeran Montreal, it's getting cool up here
03:50.33 Maloeran Las Vegas wasn't especially warm in the evening when I passed by 3 weeks ago
03:50.53 brlcad a little north of baltimore, also a great night
03:51.21 LibertyTrooper Well, I was in Texas 3 weeks ago so I didn't know what it was like here :)
03:51.28 dtidrow it's been downright brisk recently, for this time of year
03:52.29 LibertyTrooper Texas was nice too though. I was at Matagorda bay. The only bad thing was the mosquito's (sp?)
03:53.00 brlcad ~spell mosquito
03:53.53 LibertyTrooper My wife seems to be especially tasty to them as well as extremely allergic. She looked like I did the first time I went paintballing with my friends.
03:53.58 LibertyTrooper Only worse.
03:54.04 brlcad heh
03:54.27 dtidrow ouch
03:54.55 dtidrow yeah, I'm like that too - they seem to find my blood especially tasty
03:56.07 LibertyTrooper I think its probably too much potassium. I heard tell that they were attracted more to people with high potassium levels.
03:57.03 LibertyTrooper But perhaps the advice not to eat a banana before venturing outside in hot humid areas is an "old wives tale"
03:57.55 LibertyTrooper I appreciate the help. I've got just enough going my way now to be very annoying with my questions about BRLCad :)
04:02.14 LibertyTrooper Oh, btw, anyone have an opinion of sketchup?
04:05.26 brlcad it's a rather nice modeling-for-the-masses tool with some decent ideas
04:06.14 LibertyTrooper I found some of its tools and related concepts to be very easy. Others were not quite so intuitive though.
04:06.14 brlcad not a solid modeler in the least, or well suited to any sort of CAd or engineering really, but it serves their purpose quite nicely
04:07.15 LibertyTrooper BRLCad is suited to machine simulations, yes?
04:08.56 brlcad what do you mean by machine simulations?
04:09.06 LibertyTrooper My unfamiliarity with the technical terms for exactly what I'm trying to ask probably leads to some confusion. In other words, one can design a simple gear and then us BRLCad to simulate its action in the real world. Would this statement be accurate or inaccurate?
04:09.59 brlcad hm accurate yes, though the answer is a bit of a convoluted "sorta" yes and no
04:10.11 LibertyTrooper LOL :)
04:10.42 brlcad there are currently no parametrics or contraints that you'd normally want to perform a realistic geometric simulation *automatically*
04:11.44 brlcad there are, however, all of the facilities to represent that gear correctly to a given physical representation, validate that representation, and apply modifications according to some simulation (rotate the gear, ensure there are no overlaps, etc)
04:12.12 LibertyTrooper Ok. Thats somewhat of the answer for which I was looking.
04:13.13 LibertyTrooper Thanks again. I'm going to refrain from any more questions tonight. Goodnight all :)
04:13.23 brlcad g'night!
04:14.04 *** part/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net)
11:49.09 ``Erik ehhhh
11:50.08 ValveQ hello Erik
11:52.18 ``Erik 'sup?
11:53.20 ValveQ coding some simple CAM function
11:53.41 ValveQ for iso g-code generation
11:53.58 ValveQ (very brlcad unrelated)
11:54.12 ``Erik heh, didja look at "gcam"?
11:55.03 ValveQ no
11:55.50 ``Erik http://gcam.js.cx/
11:56.08 ValveQ i can't find anything there
11:56.21 ``Erik well, it's not released yet, heh, but supposedly will be soon
11:57.03 ValveQ ok...
11:57.07 ``Erik :D
11:58.04 ValveQ i was thinking of implementing something thinner in Haskell
11:59.19 ``Erik heh, haskell is fun, I played with it some back in, um, '00 ?
11:59.39 ``Erik a lot of scheme back then, too... the scheme stuck, however
12:01.27 ValveQ Haskell is pretty usefull as well
12:02.17 ValveQ at least when you learn to use the more advanced stuff anyway (monads,arrows) :)
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17:49.14 brlcad hmm
17:50.26 brlcad ~nslookup gcam.js.cx
17:51.57 brlcad ~nslookup 74.92.144.217
17:53.19 brlcad that server times out on dns queries
17:56.26 archivist hmm worked earlier
17:59.04 archivist self hosting like me probably?
18:03.13 ``Erik heh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061004

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061004

00:05.19 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:01.46 Maloeran Thanks for the fixes, Erik. By the way, you added #include <math.h> in prepmodel.c, which already includes it through headers.h
02:02.02 Maloeran Are you sure that was causing a crash on openbsd? Because it does not make much sense..
02:03.32 Maloeran How are the prep times now?
02:04.41 Maloeran Oh, you shared that on efnet :), thanks
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02:53.32 brlcad hey Twingy .. finally remembered to bring the pin in next time you're in..
02:53.32 Twingy got your vm, thx, haven't gotten over there yet this week
02:53.33 Twingy I've been busy setting up the new cnc
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05:59.13 PrezKennedy kermit needs to get in on this IRC action
06:01.38 dtidrow heh
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17:34.32 brlcad he'd dig it I think
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061005

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061005

00:50.50 Maloeran Erik, brlcad, or whoever else is coming : do you know in which hotel you'll be for that Baltimore visualization conference?
01:01.45 ``Erik uh, I'm not getting a hotel, heh.. it's, like, less than an hour down the road
01:11.50 Maloeran Makes sense
01:38.31 brlcad Maloeran: takes me about 40 to drive, roughly two hours to bike, though roughly 30km of that route is somewhat unsafe (high speed, small shoulder) as you approach the city
01:38.55 brlcad i'm gather he meant car, and during rush hour on a weekday .. an hour might be generous
01:39.30 brlcad but yeah, no hotel.. I go farther every other day for rowing practice
02:02.46 ``Erik I have a good drive to get to 95... so, yeah, I meant an hour by car
02:03.01 ``Erik new southpark
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20:01.42 nita Hello anyone
20:03.47 nita hello everyone
20:07.04 nita who #brlcad
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23:07.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh:
23:07.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: update the script to include the names of the person(s) that the task item is
23:07.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: assigned to. genericize the script to any gforge project while not requiring
23:07.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: HOST/PROJECT to be set for some defaults. modify the table output a little to
23:07.30 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: change the assigned to field to be blank when nobody is assigned.
23:08.25 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: meh
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23:53.03 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added new script to extract gforge task items, reworded recent script lines added by lee to fit the formatting.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061006

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061006

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08:08.16 Briggs anyone around?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061007

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061008

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061008

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23:09.29 PrezKennedy i gotta question about how the command line is set up in bz.. and how i can make it do that somewhere else
23:10.21 PrezKennedy this other server i have an account on doesnt show the full path or the time or anything
23:41.43 PrezKennedy nevermind i got it figured out well enough
23:50.59 ``Erik heh... 'doesn't show the full path'? like... it has a different prompt? heh
23:57.00 PrezKennedy the prompt was very uninformative
23:57.11 PrezKennedy now it tells me where i am at least
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061009

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061009

00:34.50 ``Erik most shells use the environment variable PS1 to set the prompt
00:44.30 PrezKennedy yup figured it out
01:13.48 Twingy gcam.js.cx is live
03:55.38 *** join/#brlcad s0| (n=s0|@71-208-186-162.hlrn.qwest.net)
03:55.45 s0| how the heck do I run this thing?
03:56.20 s0| I have downloaded the gz2 file.
03:56.24 s0| I have tarballed it.
03:56.30 s0| I have added something to my path
03:56.50 s0| I would like to know HOW THE *** I am supposed to run this thing
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04:05.00 tonsofpcs hi
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17:24.04 Maloeran Around, Erik? I got some draft of very short technical paper on the raytracer as first piece of documentation. It goes right to the point without any pointless babbling though, so I guess it isn't a proper "paper" by the standards out there
17:25.12 Maloeran or brlcad, if you are interested
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061010

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061010

00:37.09 Maloeran Eh okay, that's a no :). It will be in doc/ with the next commit
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12:30.38 yosef_m Hello
12:31.30 yosef_m Anyone active here?
12:53.04 brlcad depends on the time of day
12:53.15 brlcad ~ask
12:53.16 ibot ask is, like, Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
12:56.47 yosef_m I'm looking for a way to make technical drawings in brl-cad
12:57.37 brlcad that would generally be through the rtedge and/or nirt rendering interfaces
12:58.06 brlcad doesn't give you dimensions, but does generate the hidden line renderings
12:58.08 brlcad example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
12:59.11 yosef_m is it being worked on? Are there plans to make it more like a technical drawing tool?
12:59.36 brlcad yes and yes, though it's rather low on the priority scale given everything else going on
12:59.49 brlcad contributions in that regard would be more than welcome
13:00.22 yosef_m Well, though I'm a programmer, I'm giving more time to my engineering degree now...
13:00.30 yosef_m I'm considering VariCAD
13:01.06 yosef_m Thanks, though
13:01.22 brlcad no problem
13:01.47 brlcad time is the biggest limitation, there are more than enough things to work on ;)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061011

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061011

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18:30.40 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Initial check-in.
18:36.10 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added component selection and measuring stick options.
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23:22.29 dtidrow_work evening
23:22.49 dtidrow_work is that chuck?
23:22.53 brlcad close :)
23:23.07 dtidrow_work heh
23:27.43 ``Erik blargh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061012

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061012

00:12.04 Twingy mini chuck
00:44.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: keep a record of the changes bob just added, namely hte new picking and measuring capabilities added to archer
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03:02.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add the automated rtarea spreadsheet-producing script to repository
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16:38.20 brlcad you committing? cause I was starting distchecks
16:39.43 ``Erik yes...
16:39.52 ``Erik lee committed at like 4am and broke stuff, too
16:40.20 ``Erik my commits are metaball feature stuff, nothing that should impact the release... so keep working with your checkout :D
16:40.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: tolerance and EOF ignore
16:40.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Doxygen mods
16:40.45 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl): expand code moved into facetize_all_regions.tcl for ease of debugging. Some code changes to facetize.
16:40.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: brackets need to be balanced...
16:41.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
16:41.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Scale sphere size against threshhold for 'plot'.
16:41.46 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Print render method in 'describe'.
16:41.51 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: some functions useful for metaball solid editing
16:44.59 ``Erik hah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061013

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061013

14:56.48 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. These mods are for handling bigger trees.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061014

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061014

02:34.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am facetize_all_regions.tcl expand_comb_tree.tcl):
02:34.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: updates to support expanding combination record trees. Serious improvements.
02:34.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: changes to facetization of all regions.
02:39.06 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/expand_comb.tcl:
02:39.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: This replaces expand_comb_tree.tcl file.
02:39.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Shorter file/proc name for ease of use in mged.
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02:47.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: updated to match new implementation details for expand_comb
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061015

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061015

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061016

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061016

00:01.41 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
00:15.13 Maloeran Big rayforce commit, Erik, feel free to inform me if I broke anything... Performance should be more acceptable ( SSE and other goodies, still no quad volume tracing, etc. )
00:17.29 Maloeran Would it be possible for autoconf to put -msse -msse -m3dnow -m3dnowext -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math in CFLAGS by itself?
00:18.01 Maloeran And it detects a missing log2() function systematically since it checks without -std=c99
01:23.18 brlcad Maloeran: it is possible to add those flags, easiest is to probably just set CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -msse -msse -m3dnow -m3dnowext -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math" somewhere in the configure.ac file somewhere after AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE
01:24.41 brlcad ideally, you'd save your cflags (PRECFLAGS="$CFLAGS"), set a new cflags (CFLAGS="$CFLAGS ..."), and then try a compilation test to make sure they actually work and if not restoring the saved cflags (CFLAGS="$PRECFLAGS") as those options are certainly not universal
01:25.41 Maloeran I see, thanks. Though, the flags should only be present if presently supported
01:28.01 Maloeran The compiled test will have to be executed, running SSE instructions... and wait for a SIGILL. I have much to read about autoconf, unless Erik wants to commit that
01:28.35 brlcad that's pretty easy to add, plenty such examples in brl-cad's .ac
01:28.53 brlcad look for AC_TRY_RUN
01:29.09 brlcad or AC_TRY_LINK if you just want to test compilation and not runnability
01:29.23 Maloeran Oh? I see, nice
01:30.26 brlcad AC_TRY_RUN([ source here ], [what to do if succeeded], [what to do if failed])
01:31.18 brlcad usually set a variable for the if succeeded/failed part and then handle the result outside the AC_TRY_RUN
01:34.13 Maloeran *nod* I'll experiment with that, thanks
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14:26.36 Maloeran Erik, another quick note if you happen to try it out : delete any old cache file lying around, or you won't get proper performance
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18:49.12 Maloeran Hey Erik, did you see my note about reorganizing milestones?..
19:00.49 Maloeran On the truck_bots file Lee uploaded, I also get a flood of errors such as db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/all/fuel_pump.rc.bot from his framework for read .g files, investigating
19:05.56 Maloeran Nevermind, it still works despites the flood on stderr
20:46.43 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prepare for release, numbering it 7.8.4 as planned even though it's borderline 7.10 feature-wise. last news item, doug howard added (via bob) support for handling larger hierarchies in archer.
20:51.49 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac ChangeLog include/config_win.h): prepare for release 7.8.4, standard updates
21:00.39 Maloeran Raytracer detects sectors of 86 and 93 triangles which aren't possible to split up. I located the sectors and there's nothing out of the ordinary visible, any possibility of overlapping triangle mess?
21:01.00 Maloeran That came out of the CSG->triangle converter
21:13.33 Maloeran I'm asking since this kind of situation would have been very apparent in ADRT as well, I don't suppose it was noticed
21:19.55 ``Erik the truck was never done in adrt
21:20.05 ``Erik <-- doesn't know about the tesselation stuff...
21:20.43 brlcad it's not supposed to output overlapping triangles, but it's certainly possible if there was a degenerate case of some sort I bet
21:20.56 Maloeran Okay I got it in play sight, very long thin triangles going from an edge of the sector to the opposite edge of the other sector
21:21.18 Maloeran The not yet written permutation pass of the prep will take care of that
21:24.21 Maloeran It's a fairly bad case, performance collapse by 70% there, down to 1m/s. on slow laptop
21:24.52 ``Erik heh, the geometry was a better test case than expected :>
21:25.32 Maloeran Did you quickly test the new code? Performance is getting decent
21:30.57 ``Erik nope, was installing openbsd on a machine at work, and my time ended at 3, so now I'm home cleaning house
21:31.44 Maloeran Gah. I can't spend weeks to complete the prep as planned, with the milestones coming up. I suppose that will wait until the end of the project
23:35.20 Maloeran Erik, are all these questions and statements welcome or are you occupied with other matters these days? I could use your thoughts on certain matters related to features, milestones and the work to be done. It can wait though
23:36.03 Twingy Like Suicide
23:39.23 ``Erik mal: your timing is off :) I like to leave work at work... talk to me tomorrow before, oh, say, 5pm, when I have access to all the files and people
23:41.20 Maloeran Right. So noted, thanks
23:54.43 Twingy das goot!
23:54.50 Twingy pan done, not for ruler
23:54.53 Twingy *now
23:56.36 ``Erik http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/Pinecone/Cavalier2.jpg
23:59.02 Twingy your new car?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061017

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061017

00:16.37 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168055344.dsl.bell.ca)
01:01.02 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): update to next developer release, 7.9.0, indicating intentions for the next release to be a minor update not just a patch update as 7.10.0
01:19.49 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add an --enable-ef-build option to configure with aliases of ef, endgame, and more providing BUILD_EF for automake
01:23.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-acad.1 g-acad.c): Make it more explicitly clear that ACAD is not AutoCAD. It's the 'Advanced Computer-Aided Design' system developed and used in-house by Lockheed Martin (formerly by General Dynamics).
01:34.28 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: documentation on the soon to be added external EndgameFramework module
01:35.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/nmg-bot.c: prevent a few potential null dereferencings
02:50.30 Maloeran Ahah. How was I complaining about 93 triangles per sector... There are a few >= 200 in that truck
02:51.23 Maloeran Oh, a 459 triangles one. Okay, this needs immediate fixing
02:54.45 Maloeran That sure explains how the rate hops between 4.5m/s and 1.0m/s. as I fly through it
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13:24.40 Maloeran So Erik, is now a good time? :)
13:25.40 brlcad g'morning rossberg
13:25.51 ``Erik heh, walking into a meeting with wendy ina minute, actually :)
13:25.52 brlcad or afternoon for you I suppose
13:26.01 ``Erik also; failure on build, posix_memalign
13:26.54 Maloeran Isn't that POSIX.1d ?
13:28.38 rossberg brlcad: good afternoon
13:28.47 Maloeran I would have used my mm.c functions, though that's outside the raytracer library ; rather dirty to copy mm.c everywhere until I figure out these rumored "convenience libraries"
13:29.04 ``Erik it's not on bsd, irix, solaris, or osX... just linux as fara s i can see
13:29.22 ``Erik but the functionality is listed by many other names... *shrug*
13:29.54 Maloeran memalign() is not garanteed to be able to be free()'d, which is a very akward limitation
13:30.27 ``Erik *read* as far as I can tell, 1d is not a standard, just a draft proposal for realtime os stuff
13:30.29 Maloeran Anyhow, I'll just import some mm.c functions as I did from rfmath.c, it gets nasty
13:30.50 ``Erik okie, meeting time
13:30.53 Maloeran Have fun!
13:35.42 rossberg brlcad: may a gpl library contain bsd code?
13:36.07 rossberg (or lgpl library)
13:36.09 Maloeran Sure, not the other way around though
13:39.00 rossberg libregex contains an unusual passage regarding the acknowledgement
13:53.28 brlcad bsd code can be used easily in other codes, the license is rather flexible
13:53.53 brlcad basically just requires that you don't claim authorship for that code
13:57.27 rossberg i mentioned the bsd part in the readme file of the brlcad.dll release
13:58.01 rossberg the large brlcad realeses contain the acknowledgement anyway
13:59.03 brlcad right
14:00.29 brlcad if i'm not mistaken, the library uses the original bsd license, which has the endorsement clause on advertising
14:01.03 brlcad would be good to update to a more recent version of that library to get the updated bsd license (and hopefully performance enhancements) but it's not a major issue in the least
14:01.36 brlcad it's still bsd and lets you basically do anything with it so long as you give them credit (which brl-cad does, and you've done in your dll.. should be plenty)
14:05.30 rossberg thats what i thought
14:07.00 brlcad about time we finally got a release posted.. hopefully we can stick on track now and get back to monthlies
14:09.19 brlcad the automated builds should hopefully be on-line soon so it really will be just a matter of setting a tag, copying up the files, and sending out announcements
14:10.01 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
14:14.20 rossberg will these automatic builds work for ms windows too?
14:19.24 brlcad :)
14:20.09 brlcad ideally the will eventually .. though the windows builds still need a lot of work
14:23.58 brlcad getting your dll to auto-build will likely be a lot easier to automate first
14:24.42 brlcad i've got a windows dev system that should be coming on-line soon (read: within a month or two) so I should be able to polish up things where bob left off, get things automating like they need to be
14:25.01 brlcad using features of the vc6 build system that you added like autogenerating the vers.c files, etc
14:25.35 rossberg likely; do you know SCons?
14:26.34 Maloeran Compiling in mingw with Makefiles might well be far less trouble
14:26.44 Maloeran And the VC6 optimisation is abysmal
14:26.58 rossberg it's a cross plattform build tool based on Python
14:29.39 rossberg is it possible to build windows binaries with gcc on *nix?
14:32.24 brlcad rossberg: quite familiar with scons
14:34.02 brlcad setting up a scons build system would require about as much work as has already gone into the autotools build system, and adds another layer of complexity for supporting older systems
14:35.19 brlcad the biggest detriment is maturity, scons still has a lot of issues with correct cross-platform behavior, it doesn't really manage complexity much better (for large projects) than autotools does
14:36.08 brlcad it should eventually eclipse autotools, but that's at least five years out if I had to estimate
14:37.17 brlcad there are other benefits and downsides, but the fundamentals just aren't there for a mild benefit -- and it only solves one (rather minor) problem of a build system. pure windows devs still generally prefer studio projects.
14:40.29 Maloeran Probably. It just seems far less of an effort to support an additional gcc target, as MS tools don't support C99, C extensions, etc.
14:41.06 brlcad heh, "C extensions" are "GCC extensions" ;)
14:41.28 Maloeran Supported by Intel, Pathscale and a couple others ;)
14:41.32 brlcad it does support c99, though, vc8 is particularly better at conforming
14:41.50 brlcad sure, but still a set of things "invented by gcc"
14:41.53 Maloeran Really? I'm surprised, I heard otherwise even recently
14:43.18 brlcad i'd be curious to know what someone thinks it didn't support -- there's only a limited set of api calls in the standard that are outside of the expected namespace, but they are still provided -- syntax-wise, it should be pretty conformant
14:43.47 brlcad it lets you do some things that it really shouldn't, but that's a different issue
14:46.04 rossberg i don't have that impression that C99 is a main issue, operating system interfaces as e.g. POSIX are more important, some are supported by Windows and some not
14:46.32 brlcad that is quite true
14:47.17 brlcad though for a lot of the posix interfaces, there's a #definable solution that works just named something different
14:47.29 Maloeran Quite right. It's just one less issue to worry about when porting with mingw
14:49.02 brlcad a mingw port is quite easy and holistic, but need to test out how well that works for making distributable clickable apps for things like mged
14:49.17 brlcad still doesn't solve the "I want to use Studio" problem, but it gets a full build
14:50.09 rossberg hard to believe, the mutithread interfaces aren't compatible
14:50.33 brlcad one approach I may consider is a make target that generates the studio project files -- shouldn't be too difficult as the file format is relatively straightforward xml or text (depending on whether vc678 is targetted)
14:51.15 rossberg btw, SCons can generate the vs project files (VS6.0 and .NET)
14:51.28 brlcad ooh, nice -- did not know that
14:52.27 rossberg but, as you said, it
14:52.34 rossberg is still alpha
14:53.39 brlcad yeah, I still wouldn't jump to scons just yet because of the variety of other issues
14:53.47 brlcad that would be nice icing though
14:59.36 brlcad more important is to actually get a complete build on windows, seeing as there is only 10% of the binaries ported, and an equivalent environment to run them in (a brl-cad shell)
15:01.56 brlcad to get all the binaries, it's either 1) something with mingw/cygwin, 2) generate studio project files, 3) manual generation in studio like was started, or 4) give scons a go
15:02.29 brlcad and that's roughly in order towards the level of effort, issues, and time that would be involved, increasingly
15:04.01 brlcad 3 and 4 are inherintly problematic, but if someone (tm) else is willing to do the work then great ;)
15:06.06 brlcad I'll be working on both 1 and 2 as they are maintainable solutions and would stay in sync with the current build infrastructure, which has been working out quite well so far
15:13.34 rossberg i havn't tried any build with mingw or cygwin yet; all i can say is the cygwin X server works for me
15:15.01 rossberg on the other hand, building project files isn't the problem, however threading features and open a shell are (as e.g. in vdeck)
15:34.58 Maloeran There's really something weird about the output from asc2g
15:35.34 Maloeran There are 93 triangles in that sector : http://www.rayforce.net/grah.png all long and thin, from an edge to the other
15:40.08 Maloeran As much as the frame only looks like made of 3-4 planes. I'll make the prep handles such cases, but that's still some strange geometry
16:47.35 brlcad hmm
16:47.50 brlcad ~nslookup www.rayforce.net
16:50.01 ``Erik has a whois record, though
16:50.20 brlcad ~ping 205.178.190.21
16:50.24 ibot pong 205.178.190.21
16:50.32 brlcad getting massive packet loss to his name servers
16:50.33 ``Erik takeing off the www. makes it work
16:50.51 brlcad not here
16:51.03 brlcad i think it's just wiggin out
16:51.05 ``Erik hrmmmm, probably just gimpy ns
16:51.22 brlcad what's the ip?
16:52.12 ``Erik heh, sone of a bitch, got the pic but now I can't get the ip, heh
16:52.19 ``Erik s/e / /
16:53.22 brlcad post the pic up somewhere more respectable then :)
16:55.16 Maloeran That could be problematic for emails if that's a real problem
16:56.41 brlcad ``Erik: just 'erik'
16:56.49 ``Erik oh, woops, heh
16:57.19 brlcad public_html will work too
16:57.27 ``Erik whu? /usr/tmp/ permission denied? O.O
16:57.53 brlcad there is no /usr/tmp
16:58.00 brlcad <PROTECTED>
16:58.35 brlcad can toss it into /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org/tmp too for web viewing
16:58.38 ``Erik why the hell isn't there a /usr/tmp??? (and it's ~erik/public_html/grah.png now)
16:59.11 brlcad ah, http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/grah.png there we go
16:59.35 ``Erik ah, s/^/ftp./
16:59.36 Maloeran Thanks brlcad
16:59.43 ``Erik I just tried brlcad.org/~erik/
16:59.51 ``Erik computers are hard
16:59.56 brlcad heh
17:00.06 brlcad brlcad.org is sf.net
17:00.21 brlcad ftp.brlcad.org or bzflag.bz map to that host
17:00.25 ``Erik aight, gotcha
17:00.48 ``Erik huh, and I've been pussyfooting about downloading from http://brlcad.org to keep your bandwidth down, heh
17:00.50 brlcad sort of matching the old ftp.arl.mil
17:01.25 brlcad most of the larger downloads on brlcad.org actually link to ftp.brlcad.org (e.g. for the .pdf files)
17:01.33 brlcad otherwise sf.net throttles them to like 4k
17:01.47 Maloeran There isn't much to see in the pictures anyhow, but it's peculiar to have many packed thin long triangles there
17:03.04 brlcad yeah, i'm not seeing it :)
17:03.36 Maloeran Erik, do you have some time now?
17:03.48 ``Erik 'fraid not, I'm off to another meeting in a few minutes :(
17:04.53 Maloeran Will that last until you get home?
17:05.09 ``Erik no, this is the last one, and hopefully it'll be short
17:05.16 Maloeran All right
17:18.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oop, the EndgameFramework directory isn't added to the repository yet, so leave it out
17:23.11 brlcad well it sure as hell doesn't configure fast
17:25.49 Maloeran My fastest box is a single core Athlon64 overclocked by 37%, very noisy for being cooled by two 110V fans. I'm due for an upgrade ;)
17:44.41 brlcad ahh, almost 5 minutes to build, not "too" shabby
17:45.07 brlcad altix still beats it by about 50%, but the cost ratio is certainly a bit skewed there.. ;)
17:46.20 Maloeran Quite :)
17:47.14 brlcad ahh, cached configure is much better.. less than a minute
17:47.25 Maloeran I still await AMD's reply to Intel's new toy, I have been biased towards AMD since the amd-k6
18:12.46 *** join/#brlcad Malfoo (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
18:13.06 Malfoo Ah, that's what I get for connecting through the neighbours wireless
18:26.49 brlcad woo, almost 15K VGRs on the 8-way AMD
18:28.45 brlcad (that's just a little faster than the 12-way altix, now ~3 years old)
18:31.11 Malfoo Hum, VGRs?
18:31.43 brlcad Malfoo: it's a base unit of performanc measurement used by the brl-cad benchmark suite
18:32.34 brlcad it's a linear performance metric, similar to FLOPS
18:33.05 brlcad equates to average estimated ray-trace and overall cpu performance
18:33.33 Malfoo *nod* Good, I guess you mesure memory bandwidth and several other factors
18:34.48 brlcad it's not just a raw computation metric -- it actually performs several various "real" ray-trace renderings, so that you can compare the end user result, not just some theoretical integer/floating max for example
18:35.18 brlcad so yeah, it takes memory into account, cache sizes, bus performance, cpu performance, etc
18:35.52 Malfoo I see. Such specific tests can perform nicely or poorly due to many factors... The chip's branch prediction, for example
18:37.19 Malfoo Do you have some idea how ADRT compares with OpenRT/Intrace or some other high-performance raytracers out there?
18:38.59 brlcad yeah, sensitive to compilation options and compiler performance too, which is part of the entire point -- what does the performance look like when all is said and done
18:41.09 Malfoo I'm a bit annoyed at the complete lack of reliable raw numbers on the performance of kd-trees, from all the papers of the conference
18:41.29 Malfoo Doing 5 times faster than ADRT is one thing, I wish I had a clue how it compares with others
18:41.46 brlcad hold a sec
19:04.38 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
19:18.16 brlcad there wasn't much in the way of performance numbers at rt06, siggraph would be a better source
19:20.25 Maloeran I realized that, a conference on interactive raytracing with very little focus on raw numbers ; everybody probably gets the same thing for all using the same techniques
19:22.28 brlcad that and none of the numbers have really changed since they were last presented, so it'd be redundant
19:23.32 brlcad vaguely remember reschetov's presentation having numbers presented rather clearly a couple years ago
19:24.10 brlcad and afaik, he's still got the fastest published results at least for first-hit optical with non-degenerate scenes
19:24.37 Maloeran Oh? I don't suppose you remember any number?
19:24.54 brlcad heh, my memory's not that good
19:25.15 Maloeran I really would love to know how sector graphs mesure against the best kd-tree implementations
19:25.29 brlcad ingo made a comment about it at siggraph iirc about how close they were to his results with their approach
19:25.39 brlcad though they still didn't get what he was getting
19:25.55 Maloeran Was it > 10 million rays per second per processor core?
19:26.15 brlcad i really don't recall the raw numbers, or what his hardware was
19:27.13 brlcad he was demo'ing it on his laptop at siggraph when it was presented, spinning detailed models around in real time with reasonable framerates
19:27.21 brlcad look up his paper, it's got to have the numbers
19:28.01 Maloeran So can I with the old slow prototype. Any idea on the paper title?
19:28.24 brlcad nope, but he's not got a lot published
19:30.57 brlcad ahh
19:56.45 Maloeran The OpenRT performance sure is pathetic in there, but I think MLRTA exceeds my prototype
20:02.31 brlcad i think adrt comes in just a little under openrt, but more or less in line
20:03.12 ``Erik grar, some people are r-tards
20:04.02 Maloeran Probably twice as slow as ADRT uses SSE
20:04.11 Maloeran How was the meeting, Erik? :)
20:04.40 ``Erik <km> the results of rt and adrt don't line up exactly, so I have to find the breakage <erik> do you know if your adrt is built to use floats or doubles? <km> floats, the problem goes away when using doubles <erik> yeah, uh, rt uses doubles, you're seeing fp roundoff <km> yeah, but I still have to get the rays so I can see where the problem is
20:04.46 ``Erik hurrrrrr *head explodes*
20:05.50 Maloeran Tiny differences or real flaws? I don't know if the the ADRT constants to overcome rounding were perfectly accurate
20:06.35 ``Erik um, after a series of mutilations, the in and out points were "identical to eight places" but still claiming a thickness of 0.001 or something
20:07.07 ``Erik but, dude, the problem goes away when using doubles and the results are identical... km's task is to see if the results are identical...
20:07.14 ``Erik and librt uses doubles...
20:07.17 ``Erik it ain't rocket science
20:07.20 Maloeran Eheh, neat
20:07.41 ``Erik so, yeah, *grar*
20:07.57 ``Erik what's the name of the milestone spreadsheet?
20:08.04 Maloeran Oh by the way, are long doubles of any interest or I can forget them?
20:08.18 ``Erik "long doubles" as in 128b?
20:08.28 Maloeran Hum, mine is called Rayforce_Meeting_Minutes.060822.doc
20:08.41 Maloeran As in whatever long doubles happen to be on the arch
20:08.57 ``Erik hm, I thought there was an excel file
20:08.59 Maloeran I just need to fix my #ifdef all over the code if you want more than float and double
20:10.02 Maloeran The excel file is included in that one for me, I don't think I have anything else
20:13.31 Maloeran If possibe, I would like to get some time to complete the prep and raytracing pipelines, including multiple intersections and segment construction, before getting into distributed processing
20:14.14 Maloeran It is akward to distribute processing for code that is... incomplete
20:38.44 Maloeran Ew, sorry.
20:52.50 ``Erik jfc.
20:52.50 ``Erik OK
20:52.54 ``Erik now I'm at my computer.
20:53.54 ``Erik regression suite isn't running yet?
20:58.16 Maloeran No, I was waiting to get a good model to stick to, the truck will do
20:58.39 Maloeran Although I'm not entirely certain what it's supposed to do, takes a bunch of screenshots, check for correctness and record performance?
20:58.51 ``Erik pretty much, yeah
20:59.14 Maloeran Okay, that really won't take long
20:59.42 ``Erik if the machine it'll be cron'd on has brlcad, we can use pixdiff or pixcmp or something
20:59.45 Maloeran As for the API, it has been completed since before the contract started
20:59.58 Maloeran All right, so noted
21:00.49 ``Erik voxels down to 15 days?
21:01.02 Maloeran Seems reasonable to me, it should be very simple
21:01.16 ``Erik "prep and pipeline" right now? how many days? 15?
21:01.41 Maloeran Two weeks would be great, though distributed processing will be tight with two weeks
21:02.05 ``Erik hmmm, distributed would be after mpi/ip?
21:02.26 Maloeran That's pretty much the same thing in my book :)
21:02.55 ``Erik <-- is shuffling numbers and order here, tryin gto figure out what to present up
21:03.24 Maloeran It's probably because I try to get every part fully done as I move on, rather than just meet some basic requirements
21:03.24 ``Erik well, half, and teh big ones are at the end
21:03.30 ``Erik probably
21:03.44 Maloeran I have written a bunch of stuff for dynamic geometry already
21:03.44 ``Erik can we cut down on dynamic geometry, then? move some time there to prep&pipeline?
21:04.09 Maloeran Maybe a week, but I could use a while there ; there are unsolved questions to explore
21:04.41 ``Erik you have 47 days listed, if I can hoist some to prep&pipeline...
21:05.02 ``Erik <-- would like to show 'em something saying that you're at or ahead of what the schedule says you should be :D
21:05.22 Maloeran Agreed :), hrm
21:05.57 Maloeran One week to finish the prep, one week to finish raytracing pipelines including multiple intersection ( which leads to segment construction )
21:06.10 ``Erik can you cope with 'excel'? or do I need to be in a different format
21:06.22 Maloeran ooffice2 can cope
21:06.57 Maloeran One extra week on distributed processing ( IP/MPI ) ; Two weeks out of voxel, one week out of dynamic geomerty
21:07.13 Maloeran What do you think?
21:07.32 Maloeran Actually, I won't need two weeks on segment construction, that's easy
21:08.07 ``Erik efnet...
21:09.25 Maloeran Received, a bunch of ### in there
22:09.59 Twingy moo
22:43.56 *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net)
22:44.36 pra5ad where can i find the slad directory online?
22:44.46 pra5ad or is there one i can access from home?
22:46.32 Maloeran Hey prasad, long time no see here, not that I can be of any help on the questions
22:47.37 pra5ad hey man
22:47.42 pra5ad how's life as a contractor
22:48.41 Maloeran I would like to say "relaxing", but the work is fairly demanding while quite enjoyable. Do you still have some vague interest in the dream of building raytracing hardware? ;)
22:52.12 pra5ad sure do
22:53.34 Maloeran I don't think you have access to the cvs, I'll hand some url to a very short document on the techniques used if you are interested
22:55.06 Maloeran If you have a look, feel free to share if it makes some sense, it's... rather short and right to the point
22:56.14 pra5ad will take a look
22:56.26 pra5ad what is the slad intranet url?
22:56.28 pra5ad anyone?
23:10.54 ``Erik which, uh, intranet url? heh
23:17.06 pra5ad nm
23:17.17 *** part/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net)
23:39.30 Maloeran Seems he doesn't plan on hanging around
23:42.25 ``Erik he sucks
23:42.45 ``Erik too busy chasing tail I guess
23:45.33 Maloeran That's a metaphor for spending time on unproductive things?
23:50.34 ``Erik heh, uh
23:50.46 ``Erik not unproductive.. .more... reproductive...
23:50.47 ``Erik O:-)
23:52.11 Maloeran Oh, hum. Unproductive too then
23:54.27 ``Erik heh
23:56.08 Maloeran I can vary performance vs memory consumption a whole lot, I suppose the regression test suite should try a few settings
23:56.49 ``Erik if we can express that as a curve and tehn map the progression of the curve over time, that'd be gnarly
23:56.52 Maloeran I'm annoyed by the huge amount of memory the prep takes, I could reduce that greatly by sacrificing a bit of graph quality
23:57.32 Maloeran What about a text file? :) Not that generating curves take a long time to write
23:58.01 ``Erik 'curve' might be a couple numbers in the end
23:58.14 ``Erik as long as we can do SOMETHING to achieve some understanding of the change over time
23:58.22 Maloeran Sure, okay
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061018

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061018

00:10.58 Maloeran That truck is so saturated of degenerative cases which produce packed long thin triangles. Performance will suddently bump up at some point when I write the missing prep pass
00:35.48 brlcad that's an interesting feat because there's about 3 predominant coding styles in brl-cad
00:36.16 brlcad at least until I finally run source formatting to make it all consistent
00:36.21 Maloeran Yes I noticed, I tried to get used to the one documented in HACKING
00:36.28 brlcad ahh
00:36.43 Maloeran ( though I fail miserably )
00:37.03 brlcad that's mostly K&R style
00:37.31 brlcad the next most popular is probably BSD style
00:38.45 Maloeran Yes... I learned C at 12 without internet or books, just a compiler and some code ; I don't think I follow any standard
00:43.58 Maloeran and I learned x86 assembly from typing gcc -S instead of gcc -s once by mistake ;), the old good days
00:44.29 brlcad :)
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01:35.46 korrupthed the site is not comin up .. n e one got a download link i can follow?
01:39.48 *** part/#brlcad korrupthed (n=squee@bas1-london14-1167879640.dsl.bell.ca)
02:27.39 brlcad damn sourceforge
02:28.05 brlcad i think they're blocking us as we are several hundred MB over quota
02:28.13 brlcad i'll put in a request for an increase
02:28.27 brlcad in the meantime, there's the mirror: http://ftp.brlcad.org/
02:28.35 Maloeran You mean there were too many downloads of brlcad?
02:28.48 Maloeran Perhaps that should go in the topic
02:29.13 *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
02:29.20 brlcad you were saying? :)
02:29.35 brlcad nobody reads the topic, but there it is
02:29.41 brlcad not too many downloads
02:30.35 brlcad there is a default quota on the amount of space you can utilize on the web space provided to projects (which is separate from the project pages and the file release system section)
02:31.00 Maloeran Ah, I see
02:31.02 brlcad we already have a massively increased quota on the file release system as each release uses about a GB if all binaries are made
02:31.27 Twingy larger than open office?
02:31.39 brlcad but for the web space, ti's still the default 100MB, and we're at 300MB or so
02:31.54 brlcad Twingy: no idea
02:32.13 Twingy what are you paying for you colo?
02:32.21 brlcad probably, just because there are so many more binaries
02:32.47 brlcad it's not a colo, it's dedicated
02:33.02 Twingy I thought you payed for a colo somewhere for brlcad.org
02:33.13 brlcad brlcad.org is sf.net
02:33.19 Twingy you gave it up?
02:33.34 brlcad .bz (i.e. ftp.brlcad.org and bzflag.bz) is my server
02:33.43 Twingy that's colo right?
02:33.50 brlcad no, it's dedicated.. :)
02:34.04 brlcad i get the whole box, the whole pipe
02:34.09 brlcad i just don't own the hardware
02:34.16 Twingy oh yea, ok
02:34.17 brlcad less fuss
02:34.19 Twingy what are you paying for that
02:34.33 brlcad i don't recall exactly, it's pettance
02:34.38 brlcad ~spell pettance
02:34.49 brlcad something like 65
02:35.02 Twingy I just switched to comcast workplace 6Mb/768 for $80 a mo, they got 8Mb/1Mb for like $100 something
02:35.09 Twingy no bandwidth cap
02:35.17 Twingy static ip etc
02:35.25 brlcad "no bandwidth cap"
02:35.50 brlcad 768 up would be a killer
02:36.01 Twingy how about 1Mb?
02:36.55 Maloeran Connections sure are expensive down there, I'm paying less for a 10mbits commercial
02:37.11 Maloeran And they are paying half of that for 20mbits in Norway and Sweden, but.. :)
02:37.16 Twingy I think bandwidth is proportional to the population of the area
02:37.38 Maloeran Ah yes, indeed
02:37.43 brlcad 1M might work, but that's still less than what I have
02:38.01 Twingy but you have hands on access to your box so you could use one box as raid/fileserver/webserver
02:38.08 brlcad I can sustain 4Mbit over the entire month before I cap out, about 1.5TB
02:38.17 Twingy kk
02:38.57 Twingy I've pondered the idea of doing colo here and using solar panels to power machines
02:39.37 Twingy the little 500MHz nano-itx boards only use 2.5W
02:39.38 brlcad i'm about to replicate to a server in germany soon, need redundancy on some of the services for bz and some of the web hosts
02:40.01 Twingy they would be very economical to offer dedicated on
02:40.05 brlcad the deal is about the same there, maybe 5 bucks cheaper even
02:40.21 brlcad heh
02:40.29 brlcad "Site Down due to cloudy day"
02:40.33 Twingy naw
02:40.37 Twingy it's grid tied
02:41.22 Twingy for folks that don't need much bandwidth, I could probly pitch it for $29.95/mo for your own box
02:42.11 Twingy I'd prefer charging based on bandwidth and power consumption though
02:42.22 Twingy that'd be real easy to compute
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16:01.04 brlcad brlcad.org isn't down because of quota usage apparently, it was a larger vhost problem that affected lots of projects not just ours
16:01.24 brlcad since it's just vhost services, brlcad.sourceforge.net actually still works as one would expect
16:18.21 Maloeran Erik or brlcad, what's the little program found in brlcad to convert raw pixels to pix or some other format? ( to use pixdiff )
16:42.15 brlcad pix files are raw image files
16:43.14 brlcad first quadrant, integer array, interlaced, 8 bit per channel, 3 channel (RGB)
16:43.37 Maloeran Okay, I was not seeing any output, but the files are indeed identical
16:43.47 brlcad so basically, if you just write out RGBRGBRGB, you can use pixdiff
16:43.57 Maloeran *nod* Thanks
16:44.40 brlcad try pixcmp
16:44.47 brlcad more numerically informative
16:45.35 Maloeran Right, that will do nicely
16:47.29 brlcad the brl-cad benchmark uses that same tool to validate results, off by one values are 'okay', but off by many from the expected results are considered an error
16:48.03 Maloeran You will get "off by many" whenever a ray happens to hit the edge of a triangle or not
16:48.19 Maloeran I'm just comparing my scalar vs SSE packed paths, and : 1432833 matching, 7164 off by 1, 3 off by many
16:50.06 Maloeran If we were to raytracer the counter of a single triangle, just the ray-triangle intersection algorithm used will make a few pixels bump in or out
16:50.21 Maloeran to raytrace the contour
16:51.03 brlcad it's to say that you're usually comparing to stable results with something that should be the similar or the same situation
16:51.39 brlcad if you can explain the deviation, demonstrably (not just intuition), then it's generally a non-issue
16:52.33 brlcad but it's often been the case where off by many errors have cropped up even in rt that "seemed reasonable" at a glance that could be explained away as floating point or edge cases, etc, only to find out later that there was numerical instability not being accounted for
16:53.41 Maloeran Yes, I'll have to check my math on that later on too
16:54.03 brlcad intuitively, the scalar vs sse packed paths can of course be different if only because of different mathematical manipulations, but it not necessarily the case that you can't get them to have no off by many values ;)
16:54.49 ``Erik *yawn*
16:54.55 brlcad food coma?
16:55.00 ``Erik kinda
16:55.08 ``Erik bigassed morning meeting contributing
16:55.10 Maloeran Just the order of operations would change the result
16:55.36 brlcad sure would
16:55.54 brlcad but how much and whether the drift is something that can be adjusted for is another issue
16:56.01 brlcad maybe, maybe not
16:56.30 Maloeran I could use pictures out of ADRT or so, to rely on as a reference
16:56.38 brlcad the point is usually to trace the ray and watch the results to be able to deterministicly say why it's different
16:56.56 brlcad yeah, though you'll probably have issues matching cameras
16:57.16 Maloeran Yes... and ADRT seemed to rely on magical constants, I'm not sure if that's really reliable
16:57.18 brlcad and even then, you're still bound to have off by lots
16:58.27 brlcad i had a little fun a few weeks ago, took a single sphere and ray-traced it with rt
16:59.15 Maloeran I assume librt is fairly accurate overall
16:59.17 brlcad then proceeded to tessellate the sphere to varying orders of
16:59.25 brlcad facetization
17:00.08 brlcad using pixcmp to compare the differences, increasing the tessellation at each level to see how closely I could minimize the deviation error
17:00.14 brlcad it was rather interesting
17:00.53 brlcad I couldn't make the off by manys go away, but was able to reduce them to a mere hundred or so on a 512x512
17:01.12 Maloeran That's about what I would expect
17:01.25 brlcad ended up getting up to 10M triangles before getting bored with it iirc
17:02.48 brlcad which is about 50 triangles per pixel? :)
17:03.25 Maloeran :) You'll always get many "off by many" near the edge, especially in a case like this
17:04.01 Maloeran I get many "off by one" just for supplying the vectors to the API or having them automatically generated
17:04.14 brlcad actually, the edges were dead on
17:04.59 brlcad the off by many errors were around a highly specular hilight area
17:05.07 brlcad which also makes sense
17:05.43 brlcad where a tiny deviation results in a wrong energy contribution
17:05.49 Maloeran The edges were correct? I'm surprised, the wonders of double precision I guess
17:06.36 brlcad with enough triangles, I was actually able to get a majority of the sphere to not have even off by one errors
17:07.11 brlcad but we are talking about lik 1M triangles.. for just one .. sphere .. :)
17:08.07 Maloeran I think results would have been off for many pixels if you had used floats, not matter how many triangles were used
17:08.23 brlcad probably
17:08.29 brlcad an exercise for another day
17:08.42 Maloeran As accuracy is so critical, I guess I'll have to write a SSE2 double precision path
17:09.42 brlcad i was just more interested with sort of estimating how many triangles will it generally take to get the energy deviation to match the implicit within some %
17:15.38 brlcad front, top, left, 35,25, and a few random ;)
17:16.46 Maloeran Traversal is faster for axis-aligned points of view, that would be a bit biased
17:18.27 Maloeran Any thoughts on if I need to test scalar, scalar with vector generation, SSE, SSE with gen, double, etc.? That list could be long
17:18.41 Maloeran On top of various combinations of preparation quality/memory/speed hints
17:21.18 brlcad that's why only three would be axis aligned
17:21.38 brlcad but those happen to be .. frequently used views for various purposes, so it's also relevant
17:21.46 Maloeran *nod* Okay
17:23.19 brlcad not really sure about what all you need to test.. that depends on a lot of factors, especially the expected use and need
17:23.47 brlcad though following the scientific process would make me lean towards testing them all especially given it's just going to be automated
17:24.19 Maloeran It just implies I need two libraries to test float and double, for example
17:27.15 ``Erik why? build for float, run tests, b uild for double, run tests...
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17:32.18 Maloeran The front-end is meant to support multiple libraries already though, if I can figure how to do that with autoconf. On a different topic, the triangles of truck_bots.g sure are not oriented in a coherent way
17:32.46 Maloeran Any simple brlcad command to attempt fixing this?
18:01.43 ``Erik oriented as in uniform winding?
18:04.06 Maloeran Preferably, yes
18:18.29 Maloeran Logically, when converting from CSG to triangles, it should be terribly simple to orient the triangles properly
18:18.59 Maloeran You know very well what is "in" and what is "out" at that point
18:19.35 ``Erik yeah, logically...
18:19.43 ``Erik but the converter is... imperfect.
18:20.13 Maloeran That's what should be fixed, rather than trying to fix the triangles afterwards or raytracing results
19:11.47 Maloeran Eh well, Mark forgot the arrangements for the conference and Beatrice doesn't seem to be taking her emails ; registration is only possible on-site now. I think I'll have to try an ancient audio communication device
19:13.59 ``Erik what conference?
19:14.23 Maloeran Baltimore visualization conference
19:14.29 Maloeran Oct 29 to Nov 3 or so
19:30.45 Maloeran No more success by phone. With some luck, I'll just miss that conference ;)
19:39.54 ``Erik ah, heh
19:40.05 ``Erik I'd rather be going to nycbsdcon :/
19:40.08 ``Erik stupid overlap
19:45.53 ``Erik but on sourceforge, it doesn't have the dash in the short project name, brl-cad :)
19:46.21 archivist and this room is minus the -
19:47.31 brlcad ``Erik: yep, and there's actually documentation written about exactly when it's okay
19:47.33 Maloeran Eh well, pick a different nickname? ;)
19:47.35 brlcad which I can see you haven't read :)
19:48.43 brlcad it's not because I use brlcad or not, it's to retain coherency/consistency on the name of the project
19:49.02 brlcad e.g. BRL-CAD is the official name, dash and all
19:50.06 brlcad speaking of which..
19:52.50 ``Erik it's ok when I say it's, brl-cad :>
19:53.48 ``Erik alexis: I was in err on the 'bundle' statement, it just means packets of rays, and limiting to either all parallel or all co-originating is ok
19:54.10 ``Erik also; the conference thingy, it's not about the conference, it's about presense in the area (meeting type crap) according to lee
19:54.55 Maloeran That's fine for Lee, but I'm not really fond of that
19:55.05 ``Erik parse which? my tongue in cheek statement about it (brlcad vs BRL-CAD) being ok when I say it's ok? :D
19:56.04 Maloeran Thanks for the clarification on ray bundles, that's quite simple
19:56.08 ``Erik mal: I just reported status, and carried response back *shrug* technically, this is between lee and mark, and then mark and you
19:56.09 tofu it's all good, but it does dilute slightly to not be consistent even as minor as it is
19:56.14 ``Erik sorry about the misinformation earlier :)
19:57.07 ``Erik well, the 'perspective' case is not necessarily a regular grid of rays, it could be a random-looking scattering generated by someone elses software...
19:57.29 Maloeran Of course so, one can supply arbitrary vectors if so desired
19:57.35 ``Erik like, say, if I'm using it to do radiosity and I have an optimization where I don't shoot as many towards darker areas *shrug*
19:58.12 Maloeran "Reported status", that implies uncompleted regression tests right? :) There's not much missing
19:58.19 ``Erik heh, arl-cad :D
19:58.44 ``Erik um, 'reported status' was more like "clarify a couple things for me, and oh, he might not make it to the conference"
19:59.17 Maloeran Any reason provided or asked for not making it to the conference?
19:59.20 tofu ~nickometer ``Erik
19:59.23 ``Erik http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=201421&cid=16490605
19:59.27 ``Erik hah
19:59.33 ``Erik ~nickometer tofu
19:59.41 ``Erik wow, lame script
19:59.42 ``Erik :)
19:59.54 Maloeran ~nickometer Maloeran
20:00.04 ``Erik must be my stealth marks
20:00.20 Maloeran Your stealth marks are no match for a french canadian keymap
20:00.44 ``Erik the keymap isn't where the stealth comes from, it's the character map on ... lesser os's.
20:01.03 ``Erik (many windows/mirc users think it's ''erik, and get confused when they can't whois or privmsg me)
20:01.21 ``Erik http://content.ytmnd.com/content/a/2/2/a224551a525ebf5e30cedf1f4ae16b99.gif
20:01.31 Maloeran Speaking of which, I wonder how you do ^ with an us/en keymap, is the character used for anything besides programming?
20:02.17 Maloeran Ahaha
20:02.18 ``Erik shift-6
20:02.43 Maloeran "Accept teaching without resistance". I sure remember why I quit school
20:03.10 ``Erik only at the worst primary schools
20:03.37 ``Erik secondary schools tend to be a lot more involved with a lot more participation and a lot less teacher idiocity
20:04.00 ``Erik (it's a GOOD thing if you cna prove the professor wrong :)
20:04.35 Maloeran I went to a good high school, for musically gifted people where 55% of the time there was spent on music.. so it was bearable
20:04.41 Maloeran College was a shock
20:06.04 Maloeran I was thrown out of a physics class there for arguing with the teacher about the spin of electrons, I had my Hawking book to prove my point, I quit the following day
20:06.34 ``Erik wow, I'd seen similar arguments, never seen that result, though...
20:06.38 ``Erik colleges in canada must suck ass
20:07.15 Maloeran I went to a fairly "normal" college, out of a high-end school for talented people, so the shock was brutal
20:08.12 Maloeran I'm sure there are stupid teachers everywhere
20:08.53 ``Erik definitely, but some environments are more accepting of stupid behaviors than others
20:09.32 Maloeran It wasn't just the teachers, the pace was so terribly slow, the students were so.. ignorant and unmotivated. It was a radical change of environment
20:10.05 Maloeran But I really had enough of violin after 10 years, seriously :)
20:16.35 ``Erik heh, unless you go down into the city, it's called a "fiddle" here... ;> *duck*
20:17.28 ``Erik and brl-cad is from the land of fiddles, banjos, and toothless people in overalls, pheer wv *duck* :D
20:18.27 Maloeran Cool, need a violin for the ARL orchestra or something? :)
20:18.39 ``Erik heh
20:20.08 ``Erik damn openbsd does not compile pretty.
20:22.22 Maloeran Compiling obsd or compiling something there?
20:22.28 ``Erik compiling obsd's world
20:22.30 ``Erik keeps breaking
20:26.12 ``Erik hm, rayforce fails on my leenewx opterwang thingy
20:26.22 ``Erik Preparation time : 35.583 seconds
20:26.22 ``Erik Error flag : 0
20:26.22 ``Erik -- Memory allocation listing at ../../../RF/context.c:208 --
20:26.23 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
20:28.59 Maloeran What's faling?
20:29.01 Maloeran failing, even
20:29.09 ``Erik also; "The posix_memalign() function is part of the Advisory Information option and need not be provided on all implementations." (per http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/posix_memalign.html )
20:29.29 Maloeran Right, I'll change that soon
20:30.04 Maloeran 35 seconds is awful somehow
20:30.06 ``Erik um, I don't know what's failing? heh, it generates an rtch file, about twice as big as the rtml
20:30.13 ``Erik well, that's an amd64 linux box
20:30.34 ``Erik uhhh, and the roter lowe
20:30.35 Maloeran The cache file uses 64 bits indices, so it's big
20:30.44 ``Erik -rw------- 1 erikg 42 88915180 Oct 18 16:25 roter-lowe.rtch
20:30.51 Maloeran Woah :)
20:31.36 Maloeran I'm aware that cache files need some packing
20:32.06 ``Erik $ uname -osrvmpi
20:32.06 ``Erik Linux 2.6.9-42.0.2.ELsmp #1 SMP Thu Aug 17 17:57:31 EDT 2006 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
20:32.27 Maloeran Does it render otherwise? What do you mean by failing?
20:32.31 ``Erik but when it gets done generating the cache file, reports the error code (0), then says a list is empty and exits
20:33.01 Maloeran That means no error occured and there's no memory leak. envCreateWindow() must have failed
20:33.15 Maloeran The SDL window creation
20:33.49 Maloeran It's not clear how it could fail though
20:34.01 ``Erik that did it
20:34.08 ``Erik DISPLAY wasn't set
20:34.18 Maloeran Yes, that explains it
20:35.02 ``Erik around 7-14 fps (depending on how much is in view)
20:35.32 Maloeran For the M1 model?
20:36.04 Maloeran That's acceptable for now, tracing of volumes ( or frustum culling, whatever you want to call it ) will bump the numbers up soon
20:36.07 ``Erik the boat
20:36.15 ``Erik the model that shouldn't be is 7-9
20:36.42 ``Erik I have a feeling that the remote X part might be bottlenecking it now
20:37.03 Maloeran 7-14fps on the 1.7m frigate despites all the diagonal ropes all over the place? That's not too bad
20:37.22 Maloeran Every ray is being traced entirely at the moment ; there's no volume tracing at all, so I'm not displeased with that
20:37.25 ``Erik well, the deck is barely visible, since the camera is kinda below the keel, heh
20:37.53 ``Erik and when it swings around, the camera goes through the inside
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20:38.53 Maloeran Yes well, you have to uncomment the other origin[] in main.c
20:39.23 Maloeran The boat and the M1 have different scales and origins, so you have to switch between two blocks of code from one model to the other. That will be cleaner eventually ;)
20:41.39 ``Erik 2.4-2.8 with the ship and the right origin, heh
20:42.08 Maloeran That's much more like it
20:42.31 Maloeran I never tried the boat with the SSE code, I think the laptop's ram is not enough to prep
20:42.58 ``Erik hm, I have the ram
20:43.07 ``Erik this 8 core opteron has 32g ram
20:43.10 ``Erik and 1.8ghz chips
20:43.11 Maloeran Eheh
20:43.24 ``Erik noisy piece of shit, too
20:43.31 Maloeran It will perform... better with volume tracing, a fixed prep, and threads
20:43.38 ``Erik gimme threaded distributed code, boy :D
20:44.03 ``Erik 24 opterons should have a fair amount of push
20:44.11 Maloeran I know! :) I'll complete the code before distributing it though
20:44.45 ``Erik 43.2 ghz of opteron unfage, with 96g of ram
20:45.45 Maloeran 35 seconds of prep was the frigate?
20:46.19 ``Erik yeah
20:46.20 Maloeran I'm just making sure, I had enough weird experiences with absurd prep times on your boxes... :)
20:46.22 Maloeran Good
20:46.37 ``Erik only 7.2g disk space, though
20:46.41 ``Erik er
20:46.42 ``Erik 7.2tb
20:46.44 ``Erik heh
20:47.26 Maloeran Cool, I'm sure I can come up with a cache file format to fill that
20:47.47 Maloeran XML-based layed out binary, a bit at a time, with 256 bits indexing
20:51.15 ``Erik heh, 'xml based' was enough... :(
20:51.29 ``Erik the most verbose and useless reinvention of s-expressions I've ever seen
20:51.47 Maloeran It's much better when used to describe binary data too
20:54.23 ``Erik xml... based...
20:54.33 ``Erik :>
20:59.34 Maloeran That's the spirit! XML, SQL and Java are the future
20:59.41 ``Erik if you strap a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat, butter side up, and drop the cat out a window, it will fall to approximately a foot above the street, and hover there, spinning.
21:00.10 ``Erik huh... xml, sql, and java... that combo sounds, uh, familiar.
21:00.32 archivist na not my cat as it is devoid of self righting and ... life
21:01.15 ``Erik throw in jini, hibernate, rio, 'naked objects', service based architecture, and an obscene focus on process, content management, control, and cmmi and you have yourself a winner...
21:01.17 ``Erik *cough*
21:02.28 archivist buzz words give me headaches
21:03.02 ``Erik archivist: that was the quick&dirty description of the software project I recently escaped from... I foresee... no success wrt to it.
21:03.57 Maloeran We should write a distributed processing raytracer for it, where every sector, node and triangle access goes through a SQL query
21:04.17 ``Erik they were, uh
21:04.22 ``Erik talking about kinda doing that actually
21:04.29 ``Erik because the jni interface to librt is "too hard"
21:04.40 Maloeran Ahahah
21:04.40 archivist I just bought a book at the weekend as it had a buzz word on the cover and I thought I should be able to say I knew something about it
21:04.44 ``Erik so they were gonna write the raytrace component in java
21:04.45 ``Erik *cough*
21:04.57 Maloeran This is so sad
21:05.05 archivist even php would be faster
21:05.50 ``Erik well done php would be faster than what they're trying to do, yes... but well done java CAN be 'reasonable' performance-wise... well done java is rare, though
21:06.06 ``Erik people either approach is as 'weird c++' or go way overboard on oo :(
21:06.12 Maloeran If you do care about performance, just don't use Java
21:06.16 ``Erik very few understand how a jvm works
21:07.08 archivist "overboard on oo" they've read too much UML bs
21:08.03 ``Erik class Blah extend Meh {} <-- common construct.
21:08.09 ``Erik extends, even
21:08.13 ``Erik *cough*
21:08.53 archivist tis right to be bitter about extends crap upon crap
21:09.21 ``Erik dude, I could literally bitch for hours
21:09.22 ``Erik :)
21:09.57 Maloeran That doomed Java project must have caused a profound psychological trauma
21:10.07 Maloeran As it would have for any other sane programmer
21:10.09 archivist oo has created a new kind of quck and dirty programming
21:10.54 ``Erik not so much quick, just a whole lot of dirty? :D
21:11.55 Maloeran I think it's quick for very simple thing, but it doesn't scale
21:12.00 Maloeran things*
22:06.24 ``Erik heh, baltimore has all that if you go downtown, too *shrug* :)
22:08.40 Maloeran Oh I'm sure it does. Until I moved two weeks ago, I wasn't in reach of delivery for the really good restaurants
22:19.17 tofu mmm.. indian food
22:19.28 tofu i miss living in the city
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061019

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061019

00:47.43 Maloeran Erik, will you be the one running the regression tests on some box or am I?
00:48.14 Maloeran I don't suppose I'll have reference images to begin with, I can only monitor how it changes over time from what I presently have
00:54.17 ``Erik regression tests should be a script that can be cron'd nightly
00:54.27 ``Erik I presume that either you or survice will be running them on some set of boxes
00:54.54 ``Erik and if it looks logical to me, I'll be running them on a larger set of boxes, perhaps with radically different data (that we can't give you), and gateway what info I can to you
00:55.06 Maloeran Nightly? Hrmph.
00:55.29 Maloeran Once a week will do. Sounds good then
00:57.40 Maloeran http://www.rayforce.net/log.txt Anything missing, besides the pixdiff?
00:59.02 Maloeran Ah, are separate tests for both floats and doubles important?
01:00.22 Maloeran This is the laptop and some points of view were put on the "bad spots" with sectors of > 50 triangles, to hopefully see a good improvement there soon
01:11.42 Maloeran Bwah, I get differences in images from the quality settings of the prep. That doesn't look like good news :)
01:40.53 ``Erik I would argue that doubles are important. floats are irrelevant... better than double would be nice, but not necessary...
01:40.58 ``Erik but that's my opinion
01:41.06 ``Erik and I'm just a peon *shrug*
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10:24.31 ``Erik *yawn*
11:33.13 Maloeran Good morning
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23:50.07 ``Erik http://www.webpark.ru/uploads16/ubertachka_1.jpg
23:50.09 ``Erik http://www.webpark.ru/uploads16/ubertachka_2.jpg
23:50.10 ``Erik awesome
23:56.08 Maloeran Disturbing
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061020

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061020

00:01.46 brlcad Maloeran: I'll be rather interested in about a week or two to get some data from you
00:02.20 brlcad performance numbers
00:03.05 Twingy vroom!
00:03.05 Maloeran Sure. I'll have volume tracing ( ray bundles or whatever ) done by then, though other optimisations will be missing
00:03.07 brlcad have a presentation to give and you're work will be a part of it
00:03.23 Maloeran Oh? A presentation on BRL-CAD I assume?
00:03.28 Twingy bzfrag
00:03.40 Twingy ^-- chinese version
00:03.42 brlcad on ray-tracing and brl-cad
00:03.45 dtidrow_work lol
00:04.42 Maloeran Neat, I'm hoping the new code will actually perform faster than the prototype by then. By the way, if you have any interest in the code, I'm sure it could be arranged
00:05.30 brlcad basically how you compare will be the hilight, your approach (non-technical) and how it might be of interest to the audience for V/L
00:06.49 brlcad i won't have time to look at the code for this, but it would be interesting to demo it on your behalf
00:07.30 Maloeran Okay. I'll try to have it threaded, that would... help for a demo
00:07.32 Twingy will there be donuts?
00:07.46 brlcad there will be lots of lights
00:07.55 Twingy pretty girls?
00:08.02 brlcad pretty sure
00:08.06 Maloeran Or failing that, there's the old prototype for use
00:08.25 Twingy will you have Mr. T giving the introduction?
00:08.25 brlcad Twingy: you hear the news about someone?
00:08.28 Maloeran May I ask who will attend the presentation?
00:08.34 brlcad nope, not going
00:08.41 Twingy aww
00:08.46 brlcad just me
00:09.14 Twingy brlcad, unless I know who that somone is I know not the news you speak of
00:09.36 brlcad you know who that someone is
00:09.50 Twingy I know not the news
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00:25.55 Twingy little caesars, the ramen noodles of pizza
01:52.10 dtidrow lol
01:57.09 brlcad mm.. ramen
01:58.35 dtidrow btw, the owner of Little Ceasers also owns the Tigers (go Tigers!!!)
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02:00.33 alvin_lee the program used to create the models is the mged?
02:02.34 Twingy yes
02:02.52 Twingy there is a manual with tutorials on the site
02:03.27 brlcad dtidrow: heh, curious
02:03.38 brlcad do they serve the pizza at the stadium? :)
02:03.55 dtidrow probably - haven't been to the new one
02:03.59 brlcad mm.. "the mged"
02:04.25 brlcad that gives almost a sound of respectability to it
02:04.44 Twingy mjed
02:04.48 brlcad actually it fits with the original expanded name :)
02:04.57 brlcad the multi-device...
02:06.44 dtidrow your car doesn't have a cassette player?
02:06.51 brlcad nope
02:07.01 brlcad CD player, no input jack
02:07.18 dtidrow new ones do
02:07.32 brlcad yeah, well mine's not new :)
02:07.44 dtidrow my wife's is a n '06, and it has an input jack
02:07.47 brlcad and the connectors have been prevalent for more than a dcade
02:07.56 brlcad s/dcade/decade even/
02:08.31 brlcad as have the proliferation of little audio devices
02:09.18 brlcad hmm.. monster's looks good
02:09.21 brlcad http://www.monstercable.com/computer/productPageComputer.asp?pin=2084&LastPage=Apple%20Products
02:09.56 dtidrow yeah, you would think that they would have started to do that ever since portable cd players came out
02:10.48 brlcad yep
02:11.56 dtidrow oh well, glad I got the cd/cassette combo with my car
02:12.09 brlcad :)
02:12.33 dtidrow I just stuff a cassette adapter into the slot and plug in the music
02:12.39 dtidrow and the XM radio
02:13.38 brlcad unless it's a road trip
02:13.56 brlcad which is why this is all the sudden of interest, trip up to boston tomorrow
02:14.20 dtidrow ah
02:16.45 Maloeran Mmhm. mcarp didn't quite have a great time with mged, I guess he's more into artistic rather than engineering modelling. Unfortunate
02:18.27 brlcad not too surprising
02:18.38 brlcad it's the least forgiving and most painful for new users
02:18.48 dtidrow heh
02:19.17 brlcad it starts out horrible and then slowly gets (much) better, but that's not an easy path for the nimble
02:19.56 brlcad which is really a shame, because most of the underlying power is considerably better (or at least more extensive) than mged itself
02:20.18 Maloeran I haven't really tried it ; from what I know, he found it bothersome to use commands for about everything
02:20.48 Maloeran Perhaps there's room for improvement in the user interface then?
02:20.51 brlcad that's actually one of the things I DO like most about it, the command line interface
02:21.00 brlcad heh, room for improvement
02:21.04 brlcad that's an understatement
02:21.08 Maloeran :}
02:21.13 brlcad it's the foundation of the new modeler environment
02:25.20 Maloeran That conference room is a terrible raytracing benchmark, it's all cube-based and axis-aligned, large triangles to quickly fill up
02:26.08 brlcad it's a semi-realistic environment, though as it's a "real place"
02:26.18 brlcad as opposed to some object in a void or in a box
02:26.48 Maloeran At least rotate the room by 30 degrees on two axis then
02:27.25 brlcad a particular view at a teapot sitting inside the powerplant model sitting on some terrain would make for an interesting model ;)
02:28.55 Maloeran Eheh. The two models I mentionned above are very difficult for acceleration structures, hence why I would like to see kd-trees on these
02:29.32 Maloeran truck_bots are long thin triangles that are impossible to split up for binary trees, the frigate has ropes going everywhere
02:30.02 Maloeran truck_bots has* long
02:30.52 brlcad oh speaking of mcarp, another idea came to mind if he's entirely put off on using mged
02:31.09 Maloeran Can you parse .ASE ? Model is 600mb of that text format
02:31.10 *** part/#brlcad alvin_lee (n=iuri@201-34-233-91.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)
02:31.16 Maloeran What is it?
02:31.42 brlcad he could use something like povray, so long as it was still primitives and csg
02:32.10 brlcad or another cad package that could dump out IGES with nurbs objects perhaps "maybe"
02:32.11 Maloeran I'll pass on the message
02:32.18 brlcad but povray would be easy
02:32.33 brlcad there are gui modelers for it too, various quality
02:34.03 Maloeran I don't think he minds CSG, but the tools he uses couldn't natively export it and ends up converting to triangles
02:34.41 brlcad right, and that's a problem for the specific reasons I wanted it
02:35.13 brlcad (matching a historical reference)
02:36.14 brlcad i really should get started on that geometry website soon
02:36.45 Maloeran A repository of geometry?
02:36.52 brlcad i'm curious how well it would take off with the right interface, whether the community really would jump in and start bringing the models together
02:37.08 brlcad yeah
02:37.21 Maloeran CSG or about anything?
02:37.25 brlcad anything
02:37.49 Maloeran Sounds good
02:39.05 brlcad basically a database of models, with details about the content, geometry type characteristics (solid, csg, brep, hybrid, etc), statistics (model size, number of objects, polys, etc)
02:40.15 brlcad automatically convert models to various formats, keeping track of versions and validity of the information like whether this particular triangle teapot is the "original" or whether this brep one over here is, etc
02:40.40 brlcad rather straightforward to do, more just a matter of grunt work to set up the infrastructure
02:40.54 brlcad and the design and appeal/usability of the site itself
02:41.10 Maloeran I'll adopt the BRL-CAD conversion tools one day, I went the pseudo-lazy way and wrote an ASE parser ( just text )
02:42.04 brlcad or maybe you'll write a brl-cad conversion tool one day ;)
02:42.20 brlcad like an ase-g importer or an g-ase expoerter ;)
02:42.48 Maloeran If you care about ASE, sure :)
02:44.20 Twingy not to be confused with ASS
02:44.22 brlcad brl-cad already has more importers and exporters than just about any other open source modeling system (though blender is close, but they don't do any of the hard ones)
02:45.12 Maloeran Blender's exporters and importers were terribly broken for me
02:45.18 brlcad it wouldn't take much to make a fairly universal converter library and app (ala image magic's "convert")
02:45.22 Maloeran So were lib3ds, libase, and a couple other things
02:46.15 Maloeran I don't easily trust any other code than my own now, due to such... historical reasons. I just write what I need
02:46.42 brlcad step is the format I really want to see implemented
02:47.42 brlcad it's a horribly complex format, but adopted by every one of the major commercial systems
02:48.02 brlcad and is about as faithfully representing as you can get
02:48.39 brlcad since it's pretty much the union of all possible CAD/CAM/modeling features you might have wanted in your own format
02:49.50 Maloeran Interesting, never heard of it
02:51.07 brlcad if you're not in CAD/CAM or otherwise spending $20k on a CAD system, you probably wouldn't
02:51.23 brlcad it's the successor to IGES
02:51.44 Twingy then there was GCAM
02:51.47 brlcad which was the definitive CAD format before it
02:51.52 brlcad heh
02:52.36 Twingy an italian grad student donated the other day
02:53.15 brlcad Maloeran: other than .g, have you dealt with *any* solid modeling or CAD format that you know of? :)
02:53.46 Maloeran I used Autocad 13 and 14 for years younger, helping my father's engineering work, if that counts for anything
02:53.48 brlcad probably mostly dealt with general modeling formats like stl, dxf, vrml, etc
02:54.16 Maloeran Otherwise, never dealt with anything CAD related :)
02:56.16 Maloeran I suppose step and Iges support about all primitives one can think of, CSG or otherwise?
02:56.33 brlcad pretty much
02:56.57 brlcad as well as things like constraints, parametrics
02:58.07 brlcad construction history, tolerance limits (per part or global), validation and verification
02:59.55 brlcad formats like iges, step, jt, parasolid's x_t/x_b, vda, brl-cad's format (to a lesser extent for the advanced features)
03:00.57 brlcad other details the geometry file might contain is whether the model is actually just a wireframe, or it's polygons, or it's a solid, or just a surface model, is there connectivity, etc
03:01.18 brlcad dxf probably belongs in that mix too
03:01.44 Maloeran Quite nice, sounds like troublesome to fully parse too
03:02.03 brlcad depends on the format and the specification
03:02.22 brlcad parsing is often the easiest part
03:03.01 brlcad it's harder to actually convert.. especially when their representation is something you don't support, or the model doesn't have something you need
03:03.28 Maloeran Yes that's what I meant, handling all the possible kinds of geometry representations
03:03.39 Maloeran representation*
03:03.54 brlcad like reading in nurbs if you only supported triangles in your format... or only supporting solid models, yet the model you're converting has degenericies
03:04.00 brlcad yeah
03:04.52 brlcad that's where brl-cad does pretty good as we intrinsicly support just almost everything commonly in use
03:05.55 brlcad we lack superquadrics and have poor support for 2D primitives and don't really do trimmed nurbs (but do do untrimmed ones)
03:06.20 brlcad at least not yet
03:06.56 Twingy heh, you said do do
03:07.37 brlcad re re me me so so la la si si do do
03:08.23 Maloeran Ahah
03:08.44 brlcad Maloeran: it's the same
03:10.51 brlcad i don't think that'd be very comfortable to ride on
03:11.03 Twingy you can keep it in my garage if you need to
03:11.04 brlcad or go very fast
03:11.33 Twingy if one of the strings break I have some 10AWG wire left over from solar installation
03:12.39 brlcad hey, there's even a wiki page on it whowuddathunk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAD_data_exchange
03:13.05 brlcad mm.. 10AWG
03:13.28 brlcad sounds like it'd be useful.. FOR A LYNCHING!
03:13.30 brlcad *ahem*
03:13.42 Twingy I'm real curious if I can melt copper
03:13.54 brlcad with your bare hands
03:13.56 Twingy I almost have enough scrap to try
03:14.51 Twingy even if I could get it hot enough I doubt I could keep more than an ounce hot enough
03:19.24 Twingy GCAM just about hit the 9k line mark, roughly 25% the size nurbana was
03:25.23 Twingy ok, I'm not sure how that relates to what I just said...
03:29.10 Maloeran It probably doesn't :). Anything missing in gcam besides 3d view and GUI candy?
03:31.26 Twingy I've got 3d view and I don't think GUI candy is appropriate for gcam
03:32.25 Twingy there's a number of features that still remain, but it's moving at a healthy pace, just check out its bugzilla
03:32.43 Twingy I'm averaging a feature just about every other night
03:32.51 Twingy finishing up pocketing now
16:23.34 Maloeran Erik, I'll be going to the conference finally ( Beatrice from Survice was sick hence the long delay in response )
17:10.45 ``Erik ah, cool
19:45.44 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: More print capability. Fixed missing magic in st_specific.
20:11.11 Maloeran Metaballs, now with more magic!
20:57.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: some (not very stable or complete) metaball editing
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21:50.07 ``Erik heh
21:54.56 ``Erik fear my magic balls.
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21:58.24 ``Erik heh, yeah, that's it, kill and scramble braincells, that'll help you solve a difficult problem...
21:58.29 Maloeran The basic idea is to try to reunite a volume later on even if it appears to split up, through the mess of sectors and nodes
21:59.05 Maloeran Oh the problem has no physical substance, banging one's head against it is purely metaphorical :)
21:59.11 ``Erik you can't extrapolate that from the knowlege of neighbors?
21:59.18 ``Erik BANG YOUR HEAD! METAL HEALTH WILL DRIVE YOU MAD!
22:00.20 Maloeran I can't extrapolate anything, I must walk the quad volume and compute on the way if no sector is contained without being intersected by one of the four rays
22:00.40 Maloeran And do it efficiently, that is
22:01.25 ``Erik uhmmmm
22:01.36 ``Erik uhh, crap, I left that booklet at work
22:01.59 Maloeran Simple cases are easy, but I want something that will be as aggressive as possible, to avoid processing smaller bundles or rays as long as possible
22:02.02 ``Erik in your rt06 poster book, look for the poster that japanese dudes did... I *THINK* what your'e talking about is what they solved?
22:02.28 Maloeran Hum. Looking for the poster book
22:02.43 Maloeran No one is using sectors out there, I doubt anyone solved that. It's very different with kd-trees
22:02.44 ``Erik you remember the one I'm talking about, right? the one next to mine?
22:03.13 ``Erik hm, *shrug* they may have information that might be useful... *shrug* research is good.
22:05.52 Maloeran That's basic stuff, and they aren't aggressive in their traversal at all
22:06.11 Maloeran Hum, and Reschetov did better in 2005
22:06.38 ``Erik reschetov does some cool stuff
22:07.06 Maloeran Yes, I quite like the guy ; he writes papers when he has something to say... unlike Wald
22:07.24 ``Erik what he has to say is also worth listening to, unlike many
22:08.10 Maloeran Right. I'm really not fond of this Wald character, the impression I have is that he's more interested by attention and praise than communicating anything of value
22:11.24 ``Erik not uncommon, unfortunately
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061021

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061021

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13:50.33 Maloeran It stores the value in some other register, then flushes the content of %rcx on the stack to be able to use it ; systematically
13:53.39 ``Erik so fix gcc *shrug*
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15:18.20 Maloeran Erik, seems nested functions can be used on OSX with -fnested-functions after all. Does the ban hold?
15:18.55 ``Erik uhm, does it work on fbsd?
15:19.15 Maloeran Sure, works pretty much everywhere
15:19.41 Maloeran OSX is a weird exception that requires an extra compiler switch, besides -std=gnu99
15:20.02 ``Erik uhmmmm, I guess if it works on leenwx, fbsd, mac, and winderz, it should be ok *shrug*
15:20.40 ``Erik I mean, the point is to make it run on the platforms, not arbitrarily avoid language constructs
15:20.43 Maloeran Works on winderz with mingw/cygwin and Intel. Is any other compiler of interest?
15:21.38 ``Erik nah... mebbe intel vectorC or pathscale, but 'functionality' is the purpose... uh, vc++ might be desired by some, uhhhhhh,
15:21.50 ``Erik I think bob was the one doing the windows BRL-CAD stuff?
15:22.00 Maloeran Pathscale supports gnu99, vc doesn't even support C99 to begin with
15:22.09 Maloeran Yes, he's the one
15:26.57 ``Erik <-- still codes to c89 *shrug* it works everywhere
15:27.09 Maloeran This code is just going to be messy and less efficient without nested functions
15:27.15 ``Erik I d'no if vc++ can use libraries from mingw?
15:27.35 Maloeran Hum, mingw can produce DLLs so surely
15:27.51 ``Erik yeah, but didn't vc++ need both a .dll and a .lib?
15:28.08 ``Erik and, uh, iirc, the .lib was very compiler specific? or mebbe I'm confused with borlands compiler suite
15:28.21 Maloeran Ah quite possible
15:28.39 ``Erik I remember that vc++ .lib's didn't play nice with borland, so significant hoops had to be jumped through to use vc++ compiled libraries with bcc
15:28.46 ``Erik but that was, uh, over ten years ago.
15:29.16 Maloeran i don't know of anything in mingw to produce .lib files or something
15:29.42 ``Erik very much not my world :)
15:29.54 ``Erik that's over on the other side of you linux dorks ;)
15:31.54 ``Erik hmmm, I had a picture of a sun monitor, and on it was a penguin toy inside of a condom... I should find that... :)
15:33.15 Maloeran Blasphemy!
15:34.37 Maloeran It appears XCode 2.3 added -fnested-functions, whatever XCode might be
15:34.46 ``Erik http://www.birkoph.com/tech/IT_tux-in-condom.jpg
15:34.50 ``Erik XCode is the mac ide
15:35.28 Maloeran XCode 2.3 which in turns requires OSX 10.4
15:36.18 ``Erik 10.4 is an acceptable requirement for macs *shrug*
15:36.27 Maloeran ( Not getting much of a reply there yet )
15:36.37 Maloeran Okay.
15:36.58 Maloeran Ah! Poor Tux
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061022

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061022

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061023

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061023

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12:30.29 scorpion hello people!
12:30.41 scorpion is blrcad similar to autocad?
12:31.39 scorpion can I use this to draw 2d layout of buildings?
12:33.36 scorpion any one here>?
12:33.43 scorpion thanks....
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061024

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061024

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07:13.54 clock_ Hi
07:14.35 clock_ Is it possible to edit a cylinder in MGED by dragging it's ends with mouse without entering numerical coordinates, just by eye?
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13:37.20 clock__ brlcad: can I edit primitives with mouse without entering numbers?
13:37.33 clock__ like rotate and prolong/shorten cylinders?
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21:39.38 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061025

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061025

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07:00.22 clock_ Unfortunately the brlcad is completely unusable for an ocassional user
07:00.57 clock_ I used to know how to use it 1/2 year ago and now I am trying to use it again and I see I forgot all the elaborate definition
07:01.12 clock_ What's the difference between c, g, and r? Which ones permit overlapping and which not?
07:01.22 clock_ What is A,B,C,D,H, and V in a cylinder?
07:01.52 clock_ The help is also unusable:
07:01.56 clock_ mged> help c
07:01.56 clock_ Usage: c [-cr] comb_name [boolean_expr]
07:01.56 clock_ (create or extend a combination using standard notation)
07:02.19 clock_ Doesn't say what a combination is and what properties it has and what is not allowed with combination
07:02.34 clock_ THe same for g and r:mged> help r
07:02.34 clock_ Usage: r object(s)
07:02.34 clock_ (create or append objects to a region)
07:02.34 clock_ mged> help g
07:02.34 clock_ Usage: g gname object(s)
07:02.36 clock_ (create or append object(s) to a group)
07:05.01 clock_ The quick reference card PDF takes about 10 seconds to draw a page on 1500MHz CPU so it's rather a slow reference card than a quick reference card
07:26.20 clock_ Is it possible to place points in BRL-CAD and then reference them?
07:26.30 clock_ For example place points A, B, C, D into space and then say
07:26.38 clock_ "connect A and B with cylinder 6mm diameter"
07:26.57 clock_ and the same for A and C, A and D, B and C, B and D, C and D
08:02.31 brlcad clock_: per your earlier question, you can click in the graphics window to edit a value with the mouse
08:02.37 brlcad without typing in values
08:03.34 brlcad you select teh edit operation on the edit menu, then middle click in the graphics window using points above and below the center dot to increase/decrease values
08:04.47 brlcad main difference between c g and r is syntax, except r also marks the object as a region which has a specific meaning (creates a "part", or solid matter as opposed to just a shape)
08:05.38 clock_ brlcad: is it the content of the help stored in the source tarball?
08:07.29 brlcad what do you mean?
08:08.12 brlcad most of this stuff is covered by the intro to mged guide if that's what you mean
08:10.14 brlcad the help for those commands in mged is weak .. they need something like a manpage per command as it's not easy to quantify their use in one line
08:10.50 brlcad you really have to grasp the difference between groups/assemblies and regions/parts and combinations before it all makes sense
08:11.51 brlcad g creates a group with a simple syntax of just listing objects you want to add, g object a b c d e f will add a b c d e f to a group named object
08:12.35 brlcad which is a shorthand for creating a combination of only unions of a b c d e f, i.e. equivalent to c object a u b u c u d u e u f
08:13.49 brlcad r does effectively the same thing as g, and can use a similar syntax, but it marks "object" as a region which matters for things like overlaps
08:22.00 clock_ and c?
08:22.10 clock_ Can I edit the help and improve it?
08:22.25 clock_ Can I page and string search in the help output?
08:44.17 clock_ Is it possible to change the help and then send a patch?
10:45.32 clock_ brlcad: I need to draw a model of lattice truss made of tetrahedral units
10:45.47 clock_ The wire is 6mm thick and in some parts 10mm pipe with 1.5mm thick wall
10:45.51 clock_ How do I do this efficiently?
10:46.08 clock_ Only rotating one wire takes like 15 minutes to get it right
10:46.32 clock_ The best would be if I could click 2 points and say connect with wire
12:11.11 clock_ brlcad: ?
12:40.51 ``Erik heh, he probably went to sleep o.O
13:43.25 brlcad heh
13:43.59 brlcad clock_: of course you can edit the help and improve it!
13:44.15 brlcad for string search, there is already a command, 'apropos'
13:44.58 brlcad there isn't currently a pager, though as I mentioned, I have thought that it would be good to move to full blown manpages for the commands
13:46.36 ``Erik sleep, row, whatever, just layin' around being lazy... :D *duck*
13:47.28 clock_ brlcad: row on the water or on a rowing machine in a gym?
13:47.53 brlcad ``Erik: that's your mantra too?!
13:48.02 brlcad clock_: on water most days
13:48.10 ``Erik gettin' a bit cold to keep that up
13:48.11 clock_ must be cold and wet
13:48.12 brlcad though it is getting pretty freaking cold at 4am
13:48.16 clock_ watery grave ;-)
13:48.25 ``Erik about 34f ?
13:48.32 clock_ shy stirring water? You should generate electricity!
13:48.38 brlcad it was about 38 this morning without the wind
13:48.41 brlcad the wind is usually the killer
13:48.44 clock_ shy -> why
13:49.33 ``Erik no leather jacket, cap, and scarf while rowing? :}
13:49.35 brlcad I looked at getting one of those generator motors .. but building the contraption is something I don't quite have time to do right now :)
13:49.57 clock_ brlcad: you could support the weak national grid
13:50.40 brlcad not too weak around here, but yet ;)
13:50.51 ``Erik grids aren't quite national here, and the weakness is in wires being snapped or dug up, not overdrawn
13:51.52 clock_ brlcad: I made a new holder for ronja http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f25.html
13:52.28 clock_ I think it will be better to not try modeling it because it contains planes tangential to cylinder which I don't know how to make in BRL-CAD
13:52.52 clock_ Welding a prototype is more cost-effective option that trying to model it in brl-cad
13:55.02 clock_ jog?
13:55.20 clock_ jogging leads to hammered down knees
13:55.27 clock_ watching tv is the only safe activity
13:56.27 archivist na a lot of tv damages the brain
14:01.36 ``Erik I watch lots of tv and have no dain bramage
14:15.04 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: cope with a zero point metaball
15:41.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c:
15:41.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Metaball: Implemented add and delete pt. Improved keypoint display. Fixed
15:41.24 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: "second edit" crash.
15:43.03 clock_ bam drainage
16:07.02 brlcad cool
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18:35.55 ``Erik heh
19:26.42 ``Erik "I really thought the kids would get a big kick out of a scorpion filled pinata"
19:27.55 archivist Ive had a scorpion walk over my foot when I was a kid
21:20.21 Twingy I've been bopped!
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22:06.14 test34 I just installed brlcad and I created a primitive but it doesnt show up in the graphical window (I'm following VolumeII_Introduction_to_MGED.pdf).. any idea what could be wrong? (I tried to create a primitive from the command prompt and from the menus)
22:08.04 test34 If I type: l sph1.s, I get V 0 0 0 .. does that mean volume is 0 ?
22:11.46 test34 V (0, 0, 0)
22:24.03 test34 the rest of the tutorial displays correctly as I do it
22:24.10 test34 (ie the radio)
22:24.31 Twingy try another primitive
22:25.18 test34 hmm it works now.. maybe it was just out of sight?
22:25.49 Twingy or your clipping plane prevented you from seeing it
22:25.59 Twingy you can always turn clipping off under the menu
22:26.45 test34 ok thanks
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061026

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061026

00:02.59 brlcad test34: V stands for vertex
00:03.07 test34 ok
00:03.12 test34 thanks for the info
00:03.18 brlcad which is the center point for that sphere
00:03.25 test34 ok
00:04.52 Twingy Not the mama
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10:50.30 clock_ Is Group just a Combination that uses only the OR operator?
15:26.13 brlcad heh
15:26.30 brlcad yes, though for CSG, that's generally referred to as the union operator
15:27.08 brlcad OR -> UNION
15:27.11 brlcad AND -> INTERSECTION
15:27.46 brlcad MINUS -> SUBTRACTION (aka A AND NOT B)
15:40.39 clock_ When I have a symmetric model and I model only one half and want to make the other half by copying and mirroring
15:40.55 clock_ How should I do it?
15:41.04 clock_ Make a combination of one half and the same half mirrored?
15:41.49 clock_ Or make a combination containing only one half, then produce another combination by mirroring the combination, and then finally third combination that will UNION both toghether?
15:42.01 clock_ I don't remember which of these two possibilities triggers incorrect behaviour in mged and which not
16:33.38 brlcad clock_: there's a 'mirror' command :)
17:07.40 clock_ brlcad: I know
17:07.58 clock_ but which 1 of the 2 possibilities should I use?
18:50.21 ``Erik http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8928/?cpg=39T
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061027

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061027

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061028

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061028

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14:38.33 Maloeran Hum. Hotel reservation ends friday morning, flight is in the evening ; would it be possible to leave my luggage in someone's car from friday morning until then? I'm probably asking a bit early
14:38.41 Twingy don't forget your tooth brush
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14:56.58 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: memory lleak fixed (rtip)
14:59.11 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: array bounds read error in bu_strdupm fixed
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19:04.08 brlcad Maloeran: hotels and conference centers (for the large conferences at least) almost always have a place to leave luggage for the day
19:04.20 brlcad otherwise, probably someone if you're going where I think you're going
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061029

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061029

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01:20.32 Maloeran Ahh... This place is crazy, I'm totally not at my place
01:21.27 Maloeran There didn't have whatever kind of room Survice had reserved, so they gave me a suite. There's even a large table for 6 persons in there
01:21.35 Twingy call the gnome!
01:21.50 Maloeran So hum, any suggestion where to eat nearby on foot from the Renaissance harborplace thing?
01:21.59 Twingy McDonalds!
01:22.33 Maloeran I'll try that sometimes! But not today, I haven't eaten since 9h this morning, so I need actual food
01:23.20 Twingy how are you transporting this time?
01:23.54 Maloeran By foot, if I understood the question
01:24.16 Maloeran Seriously, any suggestion where to eat nearby? I assume you people know Baltimore a bit
01:24.21 Twingy is this the place across from the wingate?
01:24.54 Maloeran This is in Baltimore, some huge classy luxurious hotel where I feel totally out of my environment
01:25.18 Twingy survice has a place in baltimore? learned something new today
01:26.02 Maloeran No, I'm there for visualization conference 29th to 3rd
01:26.32 Maloeran I'll just walk randomly if you don't have any suggestion
01:27.24 Twingy I'm clueless when it comes to baltimore, I live in my basement
01:28.01 Maloeran :) Okay. Herein begins the quest for food! Be back later
01:29.23 Twingy 9:30 pm, good luck
01:31.12 iday inner harbor
01:31.43 iday thar be food there...
01:31.43 Twingy I'm still on a macaroni and cheese budget until the next pay raise
01:31.46 iday ha
01:31.58 Twingy more than one of my pay checks goes to the monthly morgage
01:32.00 iday whatever - if you didn't spend it all on solar panels
01:32.07 iday you'd have more
01:32.23 Twingy not at the moment
01:32.26 iday for most people it is that way ;-)
01:32.30 Twingy I'm spending money I won't see till february
01:32.56 iday i just got a VGR of 12730 on my machine
01:34.14 iday but i must get back to HW
01:34.24 iday BTW - talked to drew thursday
01:34.40 Twingy kk
01:35.01 iday literally caught him walking to his car to leave - but everything seems on track
01:35.31 iday just waiting for the announcement
01:35.54 Twingy my adrt stuff seems to be done
01:35.56 iday told him not to be concerned about hred - i do need to make things clear to troy though....
01:35.59 iday yay!
01:36.02 iday no more ww
01:36.06 iday for you!
01:36.18 Twingy right-o
01:36.40 Twingy it's like 1.5x with doubles and 2x with floats
01:36.49 Twingy so I kept up my end of the bargain
01:37.03 iday did you ever get in any sse stuff?
01:37.04 Twingy I haven't even optimized my junk either
01:37.09 iday ok
01:37.12 Twingy I'm just rushing it to get it done
01:37.15 iday that probably answers my question
01:37.18 Twingy :)
01:37.45 Twingy I've been working on gcam all day
01:37.47 iday since sse is a major part of the optimized nurbs rendering - i started looking into last week
01:37.54 iday cool
01:37.58 Twingy I finally have the capability to design a full aircract fuselage
01:38.06 Twingy *craft
01:38.13 Twingy I think I will design one for AMA
01:38.16 Twingy for fun
01:38.21 Twingy I have the balsa in the garage
01:38.25 iday :-)
01:38.26 iday nice
01:38.34 Twingy you should make your own too :)
01:38.35 iday formers and everything?
01:38.42 Twingy I will use foam and balsa only
01:38.46 Twingy no monokote
01:38.48 iday i thought about doing some model aircraft design
01:38.51 iday it would be fun
01:38.51 Twingy that stuff is a headache
01:38.59 Twingy yes, lot's of fun
01:39.03 Twingy gcam is a big headache though
01:39.10 Twingy trying to make intuitive gui's and stuff
01:39.16 iday although i have like 3/4 planes waiting to be built in my workshop
01:39.24 Twingy ah
01:39.28 iday guis are difficult
01:39.29 iday that
01:39.35 iday is all there is to it
01:40.11 iday the interesting thing is: you can make a better looking gui than the code
01:40.34 iday iow - the gui looks good - but the code is spaghetti :-(
01:40.41 Twingy my sketch and extrude paradigm is very handy if you use it right
01:41.11 Twingy you could in theory use brl-cad to accomplish what I'm trying to do
01:41.26 Twingy but you would have to modify it only use arcs and lines
01:41.34 Twingy and be able to order things
01:41.44 iday brl-cad sketch tool is POS
01:41.46 Twingy without ordering you will lose your structure as you mill
01:41.51 iday everyone knows that ;-)
01:41.57 Twingy most people just want to do a dxf
01:42.05 Twingy but they don't understand they need to cut the insides out first
01:42.08 Twingy them the outter perimiter
01:42.13 Twingy otherwise it'll get thrown around
01:42.25 iday yeah - hahaha (visualizing the result)
01:42.36 Twingy on the very last layer the machine literally spits it out
01:42.48 Twingy in any random direction
01:42.58 Twingy about 1 - 4 inches
01:44.13 Twingy I need to buy a sheet of that pink fomular insulation for home
01:44.29 Twingy very handy when it comes to building models
01:44.50 iday yes - they use it all the time in MA and other mags
01:44.53 Twingy like $20 for a 2' x 8' sheet
01:44.59 iday especially for 3d electrics
01:45.15 Twingy highly flamable, but oh well :)
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02:06.00 Twingy one of these days I'm going to have to leave this house on the weekend
02:35.34 Twingy argh, meltdown
02:38.01 Maloeran My brain is still running in french mode, I started ordering in french, and later said "thank you" in french
02:38.21 Twingy at least yours is running
02:38.25 Twingy mine is crawling right now
02:38.30 Maloeran The waitress was more amused than annoyed, fortunately
02:38.41 Maloeran Lack of sleep?
02:38.51 Twingy plenty of sleep
02:39.09 Twingy gcam is becoming quite a handful
02:39.16 Maloeran Lack of vitamin B6, B12 and Omega 3?
02:39.20 Maloeran Ah, too much work :)
02:39.37 Twingy working 14 hours a day on it 7 days week gets to you
02:40.00 Maloeran Yes, tell me about it. I took a little break recently
02:40.07 Twingy I went running today...
02:40.27 Twingy every time I add a new feature
02:40.36 Twingy I hear a thousand years complain
02:40.44 Twingy s/years/users
02:41.01 Twingy in my head of course
02:41.02 Maloeran Complaining because features are added? How so?
02:41.30 Maloeran Oh :), I thought it was a handful of users with really loud voices, or perhaps a lot of echo
02:42.18 Twingy you crack me up :)
02:43.34 Maloeran I'm a bit annoyed as the hotel's wireless barely reaches my room/suite on the 7th floor, the signal is too weak. I have to connect from the lobby
02:45.08 Twingy can you boost the power in the driver?
02:45.40 Twingy some times the mcu on the card will let you adjust the regulator
02:45.53 Maloeran Good idea, there are iwconfig settings for that, I never tried though
02:46.00 Twingy assuming it's an adjustable regulator
02:46.43 Maloeran It's a bit weird to have a full featured suite with a conference room built-in, but no wireless
02:48.29 Twingy no it's not
02:48.54 Twingy wireless is outsourced by a third party
02:49.12 Twingy they don't care who gets what coverage
02:49.17 Twingy just as long as there is coverage
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06:18.47 PKMOBILE im movin tomorrow! hooray!
06:18.52 PKMOBILE and i start work monday
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22:08.20 Maloeran Hrmph. So where are you guys, ``Erik, brlcad? Haven't seen you around yet
22:12.06 Maloeran I was in the medical visualization presentations, seemed more interesting than the... other weird stuff
22:12.26 Maloeran Not too sure why I'm here for yet, though
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22:39.23 Maloeran Doh.
22:39.30 Maloeran Is it the same for Erik and Lee?
22:39.43 brlcad you're probably there just to sponge up information and ideas, rarely any *specific* reason
22:40.02 Maloeran Seriously, what am I doing here? :) This has nothing to do in any way with what you people ar edoing
22:40.03 brlcad no, they're going to be there most of the week
22:40.04 Maloeran are doing, even
22:40.33 brlcad visualization? there's quite a bit of that
22:40.38 Maloeran Do you know if they were present today?
22:40.45 brlcad nope
22:41.12 Maloeran Visualization of complex graphs into 2d planar stuff? Visualisation of thousands of overlapping 2d functions by random sampling?... I think this is way off
22:41.39 brlcad ehm, that's like only one tiny aspect
22:42.12 brlcad if you're comparing just what you've seen in one or two sessions as representing the entire conference, *that* would be way off
22:42.48 Maloeran Right of course, I would have prefered knowing that I could skip a few days
22:43.02 brlcad of specific interest is just about anything related to medical visualization
22:44.22 Maloeran I asked where you guys were staying in Baltimore, when I learned you would drive daily, it should have been implied in the question :)
22:44.46 brlcad well they're supposed to be there all week
22:44.52 brlcad i'm just not
22:45.04 Maloeran Right. Thanks, I must have missed them
22:45.14 brlcad too much of a rush and interrupt into another task I'm working on
22:46.15 Maloeran My time could be used for more productive things too, without throwing 400$ away daily
22:46.36 brlcad you can always sit in a corner and code
22:46.39 Twingy you could have invested that into TwingCo, LLC
22:47.34 Maloeran Mmhm, or stay at the fancy hotel suite. They didn't have anymore of what Survice reserved, so I was given a suite
22:48.24 brlcad i certainly wouldn't be complaining about staying there ;)
22:48.25 Twingy I think you should have made some donations to GCAM instead :P
22:48.32 brlcad even if just to sit in the room and code
22:49.48 Maloeran This is way above my comfort needs, it makes me.. uncomfortable
22:49.56 Twingy hah
22:50.10 Maloeran There's a conference room built-in the suite if you want when passing by
22:55.09 Twingy I think you should walk around as a giant pumpkin on the 31st
22:56.15 Maloeran Woohoo. I lack the costume though. I could try to mimick it
22:56.40 brlcad could make one out of the pillows and sheets
22:56.51 Twingy you remember ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/XX ?
22:56.53 brlcad i big white pumpkin
22:57.20 Twingy you could do a little pumpkin 3d demo
22:58.02 Twingy I must've downloaded every one of those
22:58.23 Twingy 4kB and I'd be watching 3d fly throughs on my P133 for like 10 minutes
22:58.52 Twingy textured and bump mapped and stuff, would blow me away
23:00.25 Maloeran Eheh. It helps that it's assembly written for one very specific purpose, totally not flexible
23:01.03 Twingy I'm saying have a little fun and write and old school demo with the tracer in like 16kB :)
23:01.30 Twingy I think my libtie is like 9kB
23:01.47 Twingy that's 5kB for a 3d world :)
23:01.52 Twingy the possibilities are endless!
23:02.26 Maloeran I could take a SSE assembly pipeline, and render one highly optimized graph structure stored in the binary, that would fit in a couple kb easily
23:02.35 Maloeran Except, there's not much point :)
23:03.35 Twingy there's never a point to them, but damn cool to watch :)
23:03.59 Maloeran Eheh. I don't really mind if the executable is 4kb of 300kb though
23:04.22 Twingy that's still smaller than MSVC++'s hello world app, so that's cool
23:05.44 Maloeran I think it was Delphi where the default empty executable was 500kb or so
23:08.00 Twingy hmm, I should find out what my pay increase is this week or next
23:55.24 Maloeran little Italy, even
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061030

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061030

00:01.52 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:04.17 brlcad Maloeran: you probably would enjoy visiting around Mt. Washington, there's the Walters Art Gallery, the first Washington monument, some really nice old architecture, the Peabody, some good restaurants, etc
00:05.20 brlcad if you head north up Charles, (go left on pratt) and head towards the monument, it's about 10-15 blocks up the street
00:13.13 *** join/#brlcad test34 (n=test34@unaffiliated/test34)
02:06.23 *** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-55-177-228.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:23.36 Twingy ok, who wants to donate an old car with fuel injected motor to me
02:24.51 brlcad been there, done that
02:24.56 brlcad 6 months too late
02:25.36 Twingy aww
02:27.30 Twingy http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/liquidmetal.html
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13:32.36 Maloeran Thanks brlcad
13:32.45 Maloeran So ``Erik, when are you guys dropping by?
13:36.51 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
13:50.36 brlcad Maloeran: i'd expect them both to be there somewhere today
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14:58.48 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
14:58.49 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
16:33.37 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): added const string parameters (because they should be const)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061031

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061031

08:23.00 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:50.03 clock_ What does the "overlap" message mean?
11:50.14 clock_ Does it indicate any harmful effect?
13:56.01 brlcad it's a modelling error that would mean something bad if you were performing an analysis
13:56.10 brlcad but is mostly harmless for ray-tracing
13:56.17 ``Erik it means two different pieces of solid geometry exist at te same point in space
13:56.31 ``Erik brlcad, you making it down this week?
13:56.43 brlcad you can use rt -R to quell the overlap reporting
13:56.52 brlcad ``Erik: probably later in the week
13:57.01 brlcad like maybe tomorrow and thurs
13:57.04 brlcad or thurs/fri
13:57.05 ``Erik ok, have you looked at the schedule?
13:57.08 brlcad have to check out the schedule
13:57.12 brlcad nope, not yet
13:57.15 ``Erik <-- off tomorrow, will be down here thurs&fri
13:57.38 ``Erik I have the dead tree and a dvd, if you want a paper, I can send you the data off the dvd and you can review it
13:57.42 ``Erik see if it's worth coming down for
13:59.38 brlcad you can upload the dvd and i'll take a peek, otherwise I was just going to check the schedule that's on-line and flip a coin
14:00.23 ``Erik from looking at the schedule, some of the best stuff seems frontloaded in the week :/
14:00.32 ``Erik when I get home, I'll dig up the dvd and see about making it available to you
14:01.08 ``Erik if I remember O:-)
14:01.43 brlcad heh aiight
14:04.49 clock_ brlcad: what is the general rule to follow to avoid overlaps?
14:05.07 clock_ And what actually is the overlap?
14:05.21 clock_ What is overlapping what?
14:07.07 brlcad clock_: as erik mentioned, it means you have two objects physically overlapping in space
14:07.43 brlcad when you make something a region, that marks it as a real physical object as opposed to just a shape
14:08.46 brlcad say you make a tire (region A) and an axel (region B) and don't line up the axel correctly in the center of the wheel such that it overlaps
14:09.07 clock_ how do I tell if something is a region or not?
14:09.08 brlcad that's an example, it's something physically inaccurate
14:09.48 brlcad the overlap message spewing out at you will report which two regions are involved
14:09.52 clock_ I have no regions in my model. Everything ist just combination
14:09.57 clock_ So there are no regions that could overlap
14:10.15 brlcad you can check if something is a region by looking at the combination and seeing if the region bit is set (combination editor, l command, db get command, other ways)
14:11.44 brlcad keeping track of regions/parts is the subtle difference between solid modeling (where it is very important for analysis) and generic modeling (where it never matters)
14:12.01 clock_ Well I just did red <the toplevel thing> and it say region:No
14:12.36 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax.g
14:12.38 brlcad that would be to edit the region, l is more simple
14:13.10 ``Erik hm, maybe we need a "what is an overlap" faq type thing
14:13.59 brlcad yeah, I'd started on a diagram that attempts to explain regions/parts/assemblies/etc some of the confusion is just in the generic terminology
14:14.02 ``Erik like, make an example of having two balls, if you push them together, they stop when they collide, so if you define them so they overlap, it's physically impossible and you'd have to do a union if you want that kinda overlap with some sense of reality
14:14.10 brlcad i remember having a heck of a time getting what a region was
14:14.23 ``Erik well, yeah, but you're slow ;) *duck*
14:14.37 clock_ brlcad: can a combination contain regions?
14:14.44 clock_ And if yes, is it a correct practice?
14:14.58 clock_ Will mged segfault on combination containing regions?
14:15.32 brlcad yes it can and yes it's correct practice
14:15.45 clock_ is solidworks free software?
14:15.50 archivist no
14:16.03 brlcad a combination that contains regions is a "group" (hence the g command and family) or an "assembly" in other parlance
14:16.13 clock_ can a group contain non-regions?
14:16.24 brlcad archivist: ah, good idea
14:16.31 clock_ does region and combination differ only by the region flag and material settings?
14:16.37 clock_ Can a combination have material settings?
14:16.49 brlcad clock_: run "rtcheck" and it'll highlight and report on the overlaps
14:16.53 clock_ If yes, are the material settings of a combination always ignored?
14:17.20 clock_ I think BRL-CAD needs instructions like the Ronja website is
14:17.37 clock_ The PDF is lengthy to read and I forget the beginning when I get to the end
14:17.44 clock_ with examples
14:17.46 brlcad the material settings that you're probably referring to are just optical material settings
14:18.00 clock_ You can copy my web framework to automatically generate web output for .g models
14:18.14 brlcad the optical material settings can be applied to any object and there's an override, but is irrelevant to overlaps
14:18.39 brlcad a group can contain non-regions too -- that's still an assembly
14:18.48 clock_ is group just a special case of something where all operations are union?
14:18.53 clock_ If yes, special case of what is it?
14:19.28 brlcad yes it is, a special case of a combination where all operations are a union
14:20.03 ``Erik there's a quick&dirty howto mged thingy, uh, building a birdhouse or something, have you seen that?
14:20.11 brlcad generally refers to a combination above the region level (i.e. assemblies) though it can be used even to group things below it as well
14:23.31 brlcad clock_: there's tons of help that is needed on the "learn how to model with mged" front .. it actually is quite powerful even with the unforgiving interface but is incredibly poorly documented
14:24.02 brlcad that's why I started with the command reference at least, then next is a few requisite diagrams, then perhaps a few simple tutorials
14:24.24 brlcad any help is more than welcome ;)
14:24.31 brlcad not short on ideas, just on ....
15:30.16 Maloeran So you are skipping tomorrow, ``Erik? I really don't see what I am doing here, this has very little to do with what I'm doing or will be doing in the close future
15:30.46 Maloeran So I just code and run out of laptop battery constantly. I should have bought a couple backups
15:37.56 clock_ brlcad: is group the same as combination made just from unions?
15:38.45 brlcad clock_: yes
15:39.08 brlcad merely to maintain one consistent CSG hierarchy
15:39.17 brlcad with only three operators
15:39.38 brlcad otherwise another operator would designate the same end effect of having a collection
15:39.52 clock_ brlcad: should I group primitives into combinations and then make mutually nonoverlapping regions from these combinations and then group the regions using the group command?
15:40.27 clock_ once I enter the group command there is no way how to tell if the combination was created using "g" or "c"?
15:43.51 brlcad clock_: okay, i looked at your geometry and see the problem
15:44.09 brlcad your CSG is technically fine other than you haven't specified *any* regions
15:44.10 clock_ what is the problem?
15:44.29 clock_ where it is written that you have to specify at least one region?
15:45.15 brlcad like I mentioned earlier, that gets into something completely fundamental about how to construct proper solid geometry hierarchies if you want to represent something physical
15:45.23 brlcad the distinction between a shape and a solid
15:45.41 brlcad you've described the shapes, but not "made anything" yet
15:45.48 clock_ so shape is something in the constructer's head and solid is something that is lying on the table, right?
15:45.54 brlcad it's covered in the big mged guide over many lessons
15:45.56 clock_ But why does it raytrace?
15:46.17 clock_ Yeah but I need something if I have a question then be able to find it in the guide in 3 seconds
15:46.26 clock_ and not need to read it once more again
15:46.34 brlcad right, you got the basic idea .. the shape is like a 3d blueprint
15:46.52 clock_ If I have an overlap is it going to count that iron twice?
15:46.59 brlcad it ray-traces just because what else is it going to do.. it could abort, and that'd be incredibly frustrating
15:47.09 clock_ aha OK
15:47.31 brlcad what is happening since you don't have any regions, it's just considering it a default hierarchy
15:47.38 clock_ Like the weight would show more kilograms because some parts would be made from a double-density iron?
15:47.48 brlcad with the leaves/primitives being considered as regions
15:48.00 brlcad so in sym.c for example, you have primitives that "overlap"
15:48.01 brlcad and it reports them as such
15:48.06 clock_ aha
15:48.10 brlcad when they clearly are intended to be that way
15:48.24 clock_ Does it also report the hole that is considered a region that it overlaps the plate from which it is cut out?
15:48.30 brlcad it's just that sym.c should probably be a region, or create a sym.r region that just has sym.c in it
15:48.35 brlcad and the overlaps will disappear
15:48.41 clock_ or steel.r that has tetrax in it
15:48.51 clock_ and then say that steel.r has a colour and density of steel
15:49.15 brlcad a "hole" wouldn't be a region
15:49.16 clock_ is it correct to make region according to material from which they are made?
15:49.28 brlcad yes!
15:49.32 clock_ why not? The hole is a solid (rcc) and you said that by default all solids are a region
15:49.46 clock_ can you make a region which is half plastic and half steel?
15:50.10 brlcad the material type is usually a great delimination for regions.. if it's all one contiguous piece of metal (whether welded or not), then it would probably be good as a region
15:50.31 clock_ can a region be noncontiguous?
15:50.44 brlcad yes and no
15:50.48 clock_ when no?
15:50.57 brlcad inherintly, it just has one material identifier per region
15:51.10 brlcad you can tag alternates but nothing in brl-cad is going to recognize what is implied
15:51.27 brlcad for the purpose of computing weights and mass, for example, it just needs to know the density
15:51.31 clock_ I don't get it. If I make a region that is noncontiguous, is it going to screw up?
15:51.31 brlcad which is tied to that material type
15:51.49 clock_ will it say weird messages, return bullshit on weight calculations or segfault?
15:51.53 brlcad depends what you mean by "make a region that is noncontinugous"
15:52.05 clock_ I mean take two spheres with a gap in between them
15:52.05 brlcad mged won't let you technically speaking
15:52.11 clock_ and them make a region by unioning them
15:52.11 brlcad ok
15:52.17 clock_ and saying the region is made of steel
15:52.23 brlcad ok
15:52.27 clock_ is it legal?
15:52.32 brlcad so far, yes
15:52.43 clock_ can I run into problems with this approach?
15:53.24 brlcad so consider that example, sph1, sph2 .. unioned together in reg.r with reg.r having a material ID set (1 for steel)
15:53.57 brlcad you'll run into a problem if you later union that reg.r into some other reg2.r region
15:54.13 brlcad you're not supposed to do that
15:54.18 clock_ what kind of problem is it going to be?
15:54.40 brlcad mged will let you, but it's potential for overlaps and inconsistent geometry
15:54.44 clock_ is it legal to make a region from primitives and not from cobinations?
15:55.01 brlcad if you walk down the CSG hierarchy, there should always be one and only one region encountered
15:55.04 clock_ What is inconsistent geomerty?
15:55.07 brlcad along any path
15:55.12 clock_ aha
15:55.53 clock_ can I make a region and then group the region and it's mirror into a group?
15:56.01 brlcad sure
15:56.01 clock_ So I duplicate it by reference?
15:56.05 brlcad just don't make the group a region
15:56.14 clock_ How can I do this without manually editing the matrix?
15:56.41 clock_ I always do it using vi
15:56.48 clock_ 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 :)
15:56.53 brlcad heh
15:57.24 clock_ and is it legal to include copies by reference?
15:57.41 brlcad the easiest is to model in localized coordiates, in some quadrant, and then mirror about an axis
15:57.54 clock_ Is Survice going to go out of job when someone writes instructions so that's why there are no instructions?
15:58.06 clock_ What is localized coordinates?
15:58.19 brlcad heh, no, survice is quite set and sound in their business
15:58.27 brlcad they don't make money on the training, it's a wash
15:58.42 clock_ Let's say I do in part1.s rpp 0 10 0 10 0 10
15:58.56 clock_ now I want parts.c to be part1.s and part.s mirrored by y axis
15:59.12 clock_ how do I do this point-and-click, without firing the text editor on the matrices?
15:59.28 brlcad mirror part1.s part.s y
15:59.41 brlcad c parts.c u part1.s u part.s
15:59.45 clock_ but that is not by reference
15:59.57 clock_ if I change part1.s I want both copies to change not just on
15:59.58 clock_ one
16:00.18 brlcad hm, true
16:00.29 clock_ how do I do this by reference without text editor?
16:00.32 brlcad need a layer in between
16:00.40 clock_ In text editor it's mentally strenuous
16:00.51 brlcad instead of working on the primitive, put the primitive into a comb, mirror the comb
16:01.27 clock_ when I change an element of the comb then, it's going to reflect even in the second copy?
16:02.20 clock_ but if I move the element by matrix edit, it will behave as copy by value and if in prim selection as copy by reference, right?
16:02.52 clock_ answer in sequence :)
16:03.56 brlcad if you have a comb that includes two mirrored objects left.c and right.c and each of those refer to the same side.c, then yes if you modify side.c, it'll update both -- if you edit left.c or right.c, however, it'll only apply to that side
16:04.35 clock_ can I align objects in mged
16:04.42 brlcad which is to say that if you edit the matrix over left.c or right.c, yes it'll only apply to them .. but if you modify a matrix in side.c, it'll change both
16:04.56 clock_ for example say this sphere should touch this cube in the middle of it's face?
16:05.06 brlcad alignment is done manually or via assistance with the ADC
16:05.23 clock_ what is ADC?
16:05.29 brlcad the angle distance cursor
16:05.45 clock_ it's some kind of 8-way cross isn't it?
16:06.01 brlcad yep, hit "a" in the graphics window
16:06.16 clock_ how do I use it to get a precise alignment?
16:06.24 brlcad explaining how it works is more easily dont with tutorials with the ADC :)
16:06.25 clock_ Does it some kind of snap capability?
16:06.54 brlcad no, it won't do the snapping for you
16:07.12 clock_ so it has some imprecision given by the visual display limitation?
16:07.19 brlcad but between that and/or using nirt/rtshot you can get the value
16:07.58 brlcad you're wanting parametrics if I'm not mistaken
16:08.07 clock_ is there a way how to make a hex head or do I need to use a script I wrote?
16:08.19 brlcad trust me that I want them too.. but I want a new modeler environment to use them in too -- mged would be cumbersome with parametrics
16:08.24 clock_ what is a parametric? I know what a parametric modeling is
16:08.43 brlcad parametric modeling uses parametrics
16:08.52 brlcad values that are reliant upon other values
16:09.03 brlcad making stuff "snap" or be automatically aligned"
16:09.04 clock_ aha no
16:09.09 brlcad tied to constraints
16:09.25 clock_ but like in qcad I have point selection where I can opt for automatic snap into line crossing
16:10.01 clock_ or make a line touching two circles
16:10.01 brlcad yep, it's the same thing -- it's just that it only uses the parametric computation to get the value
16:10.43 archivist things like a distance/angle/alignment to a face/line/point/whatever
16:11.29 clock_ what is the extrude thing? Can it extrude from vector data like dxf?
16:11.35 archivist or the spacing is controlled by the item/s in between/outside
16:12.34 clock_ or extrudes only from bitmaps?
16:12.54 brlcad clock_: yes, you provide a sketch primitive and that is extruded to a 3D solid object
16:13.11 clock_ What is a sketch primitive? A bitmap?
16:13.12 brlcad extruding bitmaps is a different primitive (the "ebm")
16:13.35 clock_ Is sketch primitive some kind of sketch I can draw in mged?
16:13.36 brlcad clock_: you have the mged quick ref on hand?
16:13.41 brlcad yes
16:13.42 clock_ no
16:14.07 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
16:14.15 brlcad look at the primitives diagram
16:14.22 brlcad in the middle is a sketch primitive
16:14.27 brlcad vector-based shapes
16:14.33 brlcad above it is that same shape extruded
16:14.57 brlcad if you look at the "BRL-CAD" title in the bottom right, that's an extruded bitmap
16:16.04 brlcad you create sketchs either via import (not sure if dxf fully works) or through the mged sketch editor (which is 'alphaware' and lameish, but usable for simple tasks)
16:16.26 brlcad create a sketch via the edit menu and it'll kick off the sketch editor
16:16.52 brlcad someone was working on making that kick off something like qcad instead of mged's sketch editor, but they never finished.. that would be interesting
16:18.29 clock_ would it be possible to make predefined primitives like a hex or Allen head
16:18.44 clock_ where one would just type the M-size and it would give the head?
16:18.49 clock_ I wrote a C code for that
16:19.00 clock_ I just don't have the standard sizes
16:19.19 clock_ Or also L, I, C etc. sections would be handy.
16:19.51 brlcad sounds like a great little command line tool to include
16:20.28 brlcad you saw the mk_bolt tool yes? something like that could be extensively improved
16:20.35 brlcad starting with something like your C code
16:21.44 clock_ Or a thread primitive too
16:21.54 brlcad indeed
16:22.01 brlcad that'd be a sweep
16:22.05 clock_ primitive -> tool
16:22.31 brlcad a primitive or tool would be good to have
16:22.44 clock_ can a thread be exacly simulated by existing primitives?
16:22.57 brlcad depends on the thread type
16:22.59 clock_ With the metric thread proile?
16:23.13 clock_ The profile is made from circular arcs and lines
16:23.14 brlcad and amount of effort you want, it'd use some complex operations
16:23.32 clock_ onen which could be automated
16:23.33 brlcad if it's a non tapering thread, then it's conceivably doable with the pipe primitive
16:23.56 clock_ I say "Give me Allen head bolt M8x50 with 10mm threadless" and it would do all the tapers and threading :)
16:24.04 brlcad yep
16:24.17 clock_ but is it going to be precise or only an approximation?
16:24.23 brlcad maybe you'll help write a plugin that does exactly that for the new modeler? :)
16:24.38 brlcad it should be precise
16:24.45 clock_ That's great
16:24.54 clock_ but no I am going to tweak capacitors in my Ronja RX
16:24.58 brlcad it really depends on the thread/shaft type
16:24.59 archivist but it also has to do a fusee..... hehe
16:25.06 clock_ yesterday I bent the waves into the right shape a bit
16:25.12 clock_ fusee?
16:26.14 archivist a special type of screw form in a clock
16:29.08 clock_ Hehe invented in 1525 by Jakub Zech in Prague :)
16:29.31 archivist with your nick you should know clock parts. hehe
16:29.53 clock_ no I know just clock signal
16:30.17 clock_ The most reliable thing in a computer system :)
16:30.34 clock_ Clock never makes a mistake
16:32.03 archivist ahem theres been a few "clock" errors eg the y2k and the unix one coming up in a few years
16:32.24 clock_ I mean the clock signal
16:32.38 clock_ that's a repeating square wave. There's really nothing that can go wrong there
16:32.58 archivist skew
16:34.47 clock_ is it possible to autogenerate input for mged so it would construct like from a program?
16:34.56 clock_ Or didn't .g have some text alternative?
17:47.45 brlcad clock_: sure is
17:48.22 brlcad you can script it using mged/tcl commands or in your language of preference to generate a transript that gets fed to mged
17:48.36 brlcad or via a program that creates the transcript or ..
17:48.46 brlcad a program that directly generates the geometry (best option)
17:49.07 brlcad examples in the source distribution, src/proc-db and src/mk among others
18:18.48 clock_ hehe I didn't know there are any examples in the source distribution
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061101

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061101

00:43.20 ``Erik iie, eriku wa tabenai!!!
00:55.18 ``Erik japanese, for "no, don't eat me!"... discussion in another channel... happened to have been in japanese o.O
00:56.41 Twingy wow, that's appropriate furby talk too
00:56.46 Twingy damn I'm good
00:57.11 ``Erik well, someone tried to ask me how old I was, but asked if they could eat me instead
00:57.23 Twingy was she cute?
00:57.41 ``Erik d'no... heh, friend of a friend, haven't seen a pic
00:57.59 ``Erik (and immediately after, I said "unless you do it nice"...)
00:58.04 Twingy pfft, I'd want to see what they looked like before I let them ask me if they could eat me
00:58.12 ``Erik heh
00:58.33 ``Erik so you're not swinging by the harbor to visit alexis?
01:06.33 Twingy he'll be in town again soon enough
01:07.46 Twingy plus I'm no fun when I'm tired
01:08.15 ``Erik heh
01:08.28 Twingy wanna see an amusing pic?
01:08.32 ``Erik always
01:08.36 Twingy http://js.cx/~justin/images/justin_disney.jpg
01:09.04 ``Erik is that richard stallman???
01:09.06 ``Erik :>
01:09.13 Twingy all I remember is some little kid was to the right of me asking his mom if that was Gandalf
01:09.16 ``Erik no, you're not pinching your nose...
01:09.30 Twingy I think he was playing grab ass with me
01:09.34 Twingy maybe it was john
01:10.12 ``Erik hehe, john's got himself a semi-sweet deal... 3 days of work a week, obnoxious pay, and none of the mandatory shit
01:10.13 Twingy looks like he's holding a joint in his right hand
01:10.31 Twingy doobie snacks
01:10.36 ``Erik towlie is the gandalf of southpark.
01:14.27 ``Erik woops
01:44.51 brlcad i think that's Blinn
01:45.00 ``Erik hahaha
06:43.39 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210)
08:05.46 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
08:05.46 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
11:45.05 *** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
12:02.10 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
12:02.10 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
15:21.31 Maloeran If the user interface presented by Microsoft research at this conference is used, I pity the future generation of windows users
15:24.17 *** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be)
15:24.37 jpjacobs does anyone have a debian/ubuntu package of brlcad?
15:43.48 clock__ jpjacobs: I don't but compiling is easy
15:43.59 clock__ I compiled on Linux and OpenBSD. You don't need additional libraries AFAIK.
15:49.57 brlcad jpjacobs: several people have started working on making a package, and I believe one exists for a version from a year or so ago .. but current no there's not
15:50.38 clock__ brlcad: I found a bug in mged
15:50.59 brlcad it is pretty much self-contained, so it should compile off of a source distribution cleanly and fully if you at least have a compiler
15:51.07 brlcad clock__: reproducible?
15:52.14 clock__ brlcad: yes
15:53.01 jpjacobs yeah, the compiling, or just extracting the tarball isn't really the problem, but i wanted to just have a deb, so i can manage the file with apt-get instead of a bunch of loose files
15:53.49 Maloeran Ubuntu doesn't come with anything one needs to compile stuff, you have to install a bunch of packages
15:53.54 jpjacobs hmm just managed to buid a deb from the tarball i got from sourceforge
15:53.55 Maloeran It's really a painful distribution for programmers
15:54.14 jpjacobs yeah i know, there's a meta package for that: build-essential
15:54.28 jpjacobs allright, no errors, wish me luck :)
15:57.19 clock__ Well actually already 2 bugs.
16:00.35 clock__ Well
16:00.42 clock__ http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded_we_s2.png at the right side of the vertical beam an edge is not drawn, although an edge is there.
16:00.46 clock__ Second bug:
16:00.59 clock__ http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax.g
16:01.58 clock__ Matrix selection, /tetrax/tetrax.c/sym.c/l2.c/li.s, l2.c then it shows nonsense - both pieces are moving synchronously and they should move in a mirrored fashion. When you do an accept then, one of them disappears and reappears only after you type "B tetrax".
16:02.16 brlcad jpjacobs: good luck
16:02.43 jpjacobs nice. i've got it working! if anyone want's the deb, i could upload it somewhere
16:03.01 clock__ brlcad: can I consider this bugreported and scratch it out of my TODO list?
16:03.05 brlcad jpjacobs: which version did you compile?
16:03.14 jpjacobs working is relative, i still have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to the path ;)
16:03.22 clock__ brlcad: can you try it out if you can reproduce it?
16:03.25 brlcad jpjacobs: you can upload via ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
16:03.32 jpjacobs i didn't, i just got the binairies of sourceforge
16:03.43 jpjacobs i can try though
16:03.52 brlcad er, binaries or source?
16:04.01 brlcad sounded like you compiled it
16:04.23 jpjacobs (but i warn you i don't know anything about packaging in general, so don't blame me if this breaks things :p)
16:04.51 brlcad clock__: yeah, I'm actually not so sure that's a bug as much as it is a setting issue (though certainly undesired behavior)
16:04.59 jpjacobs i had both, but the compilingstuff was mainly to get things installed via checkinstall , but that failed
16:05.19 brlcad jpjacobs: failed because?
16:06.19 brlcad clock__: there's a test in rtedge when determining whether to draw an edge, looking at the depth of the adjacent faces.. in your diagram there, the adjacent are nearly identical and I bet that's why it's not drawing it
16:06.20 clock__ brlcad: which one are you talking about now to be a setting issue?
16:06.41 clock__ brlcad: they are not nearly identical there is actually several millimeters space in between
16:06.46 brlcad that value is configurable, albeit maybe only via source.. there should be a run-time configuration for it
16:07.28 jpjacobs dunno anymore, it's been a while
16:07.29 clock__ brlcad: but why does it have to be configurable? Can't it just test if the ray doesn't punch another body or another face of the same body?
16:07.52 jpjacobs is 7.8.3 the most recent source release?
16:08.04 clock__ brlcad: why isn't configured to be more sensitive by default? Would it draw edge everywhere then ?
16:08.24 brlcad right, it's a subtle balance
16:08.38 brlcad not everywhere, but more than you'd generally want
16:10.59 clock__ brlcad: well if it draws bulshitty edges it doesn't matter it's not necessary for Ronja that all edges are perfect it's just to show the shape
16:11.22 brlcad curious, if you draw it larger, does it render the edge?
16:11.27 clock__ I didn't try
16:11.29 brlcad what object is that?
16:11.35 clock__ It's done by scripts
16:11.58 clock__ http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded.g
16:12.16 clock__ object inside "par_welded_we"
16:13.05 brlcad hmm.. there's something wrong in that .g
16:13.50 clock__ As usual, I always manage to make something wrong in the .g files
16:18.02 brlcad jpjacobs: if you use the latest posted source tarball (7.8.4 posted at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368) I'll upload your .deb as a linux download
16:18.25 brlcad clock__: it might not be you actually.. I'm using an older version, considerably older -- have to check with a never version
16:18.43 brlcad it still brins up par_welded
16:19.48 clock__ brlcad: "B par_welded_we"
16:20.13 brlcad yep, already there
16:21.13 brlcad hmm, sure enough some sort of tolerancing issue
16:21.21 brlcad it renders the edge zoomed in
16:21.36 clock__ brlcad: then it's not a bug
16:21.45 clock__ brlcad: can you look into the other report please?
16:21.53 clock__ That's actually quite annoying during modelling
16:21.54 brlcad like i said, maybe not a bug but certainly undesired behavior
16:29.44 jpjacobs How do i build brl to have all executable files in /usr/bin instead of /usr/brlcad/bin ? and also the man stuff?
16:30.10 brlcad jpjacobs: that's highly not recommended for many reasons right now
16:30.44 brlcad aside from the plain reason that it'll end up installing several hundred binaries and several dozen libraries..
16:30.50 jpjacobs hehe, that's just the opposite that people just told me on #ubuntu :p
16:31.14 jpjacobs yeah, ok, but that's no problem if things get managed by apt
16:31.25 brlcad there's also a high probability that one of those binaries or libraries will conflict in name with an existing
16:31.41 brlcad meaning it could clobber something you already have which would be "bad"
16:32.00 jpjacobs mmm, maybe i'll just make a wrapperscript to that then... something like brlterm ...
16:32.18 brlcad more likely it'll be a library
16:32.20 jpjacobs and put that in /usr/bin
16:32.57 brlcad brl-cad's core libraries, librt, libbu, and libbn have been around for decades, but other projects sometimes have similarly named libraries
16:32.58 ``Erik heh
16:33.01 jpjacobs i mean , just a stupid shellscript that set's the path's right
16:33.21 ``Erik echo PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin >> ~/.bashrc
16:33.22 ``Erik :D
16:33.23 ``Erik done
16:33.31 brlcad you mean scripts installed into /usr/bin pointing to stuff in /usr/brlcad/bin? :)
16:33.45 clock__ brlcad: did you try my second report?
16:33.55 brlcad clock__: i'm still working on your first one
16:34.02 brlcad or do you really not care
16:34.10 jpjacobs no, just a script like /usr/bin/brlterm, that just set's the right paths and then dumps you to a shell
16:34.12 clock__ brlcad: but you don't have to - I don't care about the first one
16:34.21 brlcad clock__: grr
16:34.26 clock__ That seems to be a design property
16:34.41 brlcad well, at a glance, I'm trying to verify
16:34.43 clock__ Or do you have an idea how to quickly fix it so that there is no magical constant and it always detects edges properly?
16:34.46 brlcad as well as to see if there's a workaround
16:35.25 brlcad there are options that can be set that should help it find that edge
16:35.57 ``Erik jpjacobs: the only paths you SHOULD need to muck with are the binary path $PATH and the manpage (maybe) $MANPATH, just fix your .bashrc or .profile or whatever?
16:36.55 jpjacobs yeah, but like brlcad said, that might conflict with other executables etc
16:37.06 brlcad jpjacobs: ahh.. there's actually a todo item to create a "proper" full blown terminal interface that has the environment set up, but that's future work
16:37.13 brlcad actually, not quite what I said
16:37.27 brlcad installing into /usr/brlcad is preferred, and just set the PATH/MANPATH
16:37.28 jpjacobs so this thing would only set the path's when you invoke it
16:37.46 brlcad akin to /usr/X11R6
16:37.57 ``Erik why make it a script? why not just put the paths in another file, and source it when you want it? heh
16:38.24 brlcad ``Erik: that's effectively what he's suggesting too :P
16:38.41 ``Erik I mean, it seems to me like like you want something in the same class as writing ls-l.c to execute ls -l ...
16:38.56 ``Erik brlcad: sourcing doesn't spawn a subshell
16:39.26 brlcad so?
16:39.30 ``Erik treating the ptree like a stack of shells does not seem optimal to me *shrug* :)
16:40.01 brlcad he probably cares about as much as I'd care about that for this purpose :)
16:40.12 brlcad that said, still think it's not a good approach
16:41.30 brlcad it should either install into /usr/bin or not, and let usual unix pathing do what it's supposed to do (i.e. update the /etc scripts with new PATH, or assume user will)
16:43.18 ``Erik hell, I've had accounts on systems where /etc was legitimately in the path... :D
16:44.04 brlcad what could be useful is an installer script phase for debian/gentoo/freebsd that optionally updates the system paths for you
16:44.27 brlcad but it's still more important to get it working integrated cleanly first imho before doing that
16:44.34 ``Erik I wouldn't do that for fbsd... :/
16:44.40 brlcad hence the optional
16:45.05 ``Erik the 'right' way is to have an 'install-user' target which mucks a persons ~/.profile or whatever, or just a pkg-message to tell how to use it
16:45.31 brlcad could have that in addition, but that would be solving a slightly different issue
16:45.44 ``Erik and that extra mged.sh pedro made is a bit of a headache, heh
16:46.08 jpjacobs i think a lot of users don't like mucking with paths, and like the idea of just doubleclicking an icon and getting a nice shell with everything ready to use, maybe even with a nice text printed to get them started :)
16:46.55 clock__ I hate dealing with paths
16:47.03 clock__ Different on every system
16:47.16 clock__ And if you do it wrong it can disappear the next time you restart or upgrade the system
16:47.27 clock__ Or it can work on text console and not work in X, or vice versa
16:48.09 ``Erik yeah, a lot of users should put the machine back in the box and return it to the store. o.O
16:48.14 ``Erik :D
16:48.59 ``Erik hey, brlcad, does mged have the ability to run all four hundred and something programs of the suite?
16:52.13 jpjacobs woohoow, everything compiled right. Does anyone have better scripting skills than I do? (what i come up with is http://ln-s.net/FGP
16:53.43 ``Erik and how are you planning on calling that?
16:54.52 brlcad jpjacobs: the double-clickable option (a brl-cad terminal) is what has my focus, for what it's worth -- that's a solution that is necessary in particular for the gui systems (esp. mac and windows)
16:55.25 brlcad ``Erik: what do you mean?
16:55.36 brlcad you can invoke any of them with exec in mged if that's what you mean
16:55.46 brlcad only a handful of them are coupled to similar mged commands
16:55.56 brlcad probably a dozen or so
16:56.28 ``Erik hm
16:56.48 ``Erik I wonder if they should all be blindly name-linked... (like rt is)... then call the mged shell 'the thing', just launch mged
16:57.21 brlcad jpjacobs: if you would, that should say "Everything set up for BRL-CAD", not using the lowercase non-dashed naming
16:57.33 ``Erik pedant :D
16:57.43 brlcad consistent
16:58.37 brlcad it's generally non-trivial to couple the command line commands to a similar mged command
16:58.55 brlcad extensively different options and conventions amongst different tools
16:59.25 ``Erik ah, you can't take the argument list and just blindly pass them to the underlying program? like a shell execvp()
16:59.25 brlcad and many of them would just be confusing and inconsistent if used inside mged without proper wrapping
16:59.38 brlcad like if I ran mk_wire.. i'd expect it to make a wire object in my current database
16:59.52 jpjacobs i've got it almost... any colors for xterm that would go nicely wiht BRL-CAD?
16:59.54 brlcad whereas mk_wire expects a .g and object names, etc
17:00.34 brlcad so mged would have to be aware of mk_wire's options format on how to specify the current .g and how to specify object names (some are consistent like the tracers, others aren't)
17:01.08 brlcad jpjacobs: you could set a color on .g and .pix files
17:01.59 ``Erik eenterestink... my 1.25 g4 scores 2127, where the 1.2ghz athlon scores 667
17:01.59 jpjacobs how do you mean?
17:03.49 ``Erik or LSCOLORS
17:04.33 jpjacobs it's LS_COLORS aparently
17:04.42 ``Erik it's different on different os's :(
17:07.47 brlcad ``Erik: that's a stunningly low score for a 1.2 athlon
17:07.56 ``Erik um, you don't know what my metric is
17:08.10 ``Erik nope
17:08.21 ``Erik not BRL DASH CAD related
17:08.43 brlcad ah, so it's a useless metric .. got it ;)
17:09.31 ``Erik :D ultra-naive raytracer with the goal of being modular so different algorithms for different aspects can be dropped in trivially... this is with the ueber-naive 'acceleration' structure, moller-trombour triangle intersection, and the value is rays per second
17:09.56 brlcad hehe
17:09.58 ``Erik (every ray tests every triangle, keeping the 'closest')
17:12.35 jpjacobs just did the benchmark too, i've got 1597 on my AMD AthlonXP 2600+ (2.05 GHz)
17:12.38 brlcad i finally got Zeta to install
17:12.52 brlcad jpjacobs: that'd be an unoptimized build :)
17:13.16 brlcad you should recompile optimized, at least it sounds unoptimized
17:13.21 jpjacobs well that could very well be (it's just the binarie from sourceforge)
17:13.25 brlcad hmmm
17:13.41 brlcad those should be optimized actually, unless someone left off the option
17:13.59 ``Erik what're you running zeta on?
17:14.13 jpjacobs now for the .deb, should i make it with --enable-optimized ?
17:14.25 brlcad zeta won't do ppc
17:14.46 brlcad wouldn't do parallels either, kept kernel panic'ing in random places
17:15.13 brlcad jpjacobs: yes, --enable-optimized and --enable-almost-everything ;)
17:15.45 brlcad can toss in --disable-debug for good measure
17:15.51 brlcad but that's optional
17:18.03 ``Erik heh, "dooking" http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/#
17:23.14 jpjacobs is the enable-almost-everything to be taken literally?
17:23.30 brlcad yes
17:23.52 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtedge is not respecting the -c'set' options
17:24.24 brlcad there is such a configure option that enables the compilation of the third-party dependencies (libpng, tcl/tk, urt, zlib, itcl/itk/iwidgets, etc)
17:24.55 brlcad otherwise it will autodetect what you have installed, which is potentially different if you wanted to share that .deb with someone else
17:25.56 ``Erik debs have dependancy info built in... urt, zlib, and png should be added as dependancies and forced not to build imho... :D
17:32.00 brlcad should, and the official debian .deb request has/had such a thing going iirc
17:32.40 brlcad but then there's still issues running against system tcl/tk/itcl/itk/... that I'm still working on
17:36.20 jpjacobs ``Erik: well, if you can tell me how i do that, that'll be nice:)
17:45.46 jpjacobs hmmm almost there with the xterm, lscoloring and path setting thing
17:51.54 jpjacobs damn it, i can't get the lscoloring to get set... very weird. have alook at it at: http://ln-s.net/FGX
17:53.02 jpjacobs can anybody give me a list of packages where brlcad depends on?
17:53.49 brlcad jpjacobs: ls src/other
17:53.54 brlcad they are included there
17:54.19 brlcad the probablem you'll run into with some of them though, like tcl/tk, is that a system tk is currently non-functional .. close, but not there yet
17:54.59 brlcad but for things like jove and urt and zlib and png and regex, system ones work just as well
17:59.01 jpjacobs so i should have tcl/tk compiled in and the rest as dependancy
17:59.37 jpjacobs i'm off for dinner
18:04.48 brlcad pretty much
18:25.39 dtidrow_work ``Erik: lol at the 'stinky' opinions
20:16.31 jpjacobs has anybody an idea why the lscolloring stuff in my script doesn't work?
20:21.36 Maloeran Ohh, so that's the raytracer you spoke of writing, Erik :). Okay, I don't feel too threatened yet
20:34.05 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-129.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:01.43 clock_ brlcad: did you check the second report I told you?
21:01.50 clock_ Or should I report it into the bug database?
21:07.46 clock_ brlcad: is it OK to subtract a region from another one or do AND operation?
22:38.42 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210)
22:40.48 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210)
22:46.36 ``Erik hum, per ghz, the naive rt I got here does 874 ray/sec, the g4 does 1700 ray/sec :)
22:58.15 Maloeran Feel like trying my ray-triangle intersection test to compare? :)
22:58.30 Maloeran It works best with short ray segments, but you should see a good gain
23:00.13 ``Erik um, if I give you a function prototype, can y ou give me a .c file easily enough?
23:00.42 Maloeran It requires conversion to a different triangle structure than 3 vertices, but it's simple enough
23:00.58 ``Erik hrmmmmmm
23:01.20 ``Erik tell ya what, when I see you tomorrow, I'll have my thumbdrive, we can compare and mess around
23:01.49 Maloeran Sure
23:01.50 Twingy just think of me as the richard stallman of renewable energy
23:02.46 Twingy I'd grow a beard, but it'd increase my coefficient of friction
23:07.19 ``Erik so you stink a lot? :D
23:08.20 ``Erik it's cuz you're queerbeqois
23:08.50 Twingy DEY TUK HIS JB!
23:08.58 ``Erik JRB!
23:09.03 Twingy JRRRRRR
23:09.09 ``Erik JJJJRRRRRRRRRB
23:09.15 Twingy BACK TO THE PILE!
23:09.32 ``Erik twingies a timecist
23:09.46 Twingy I'm a confuscist atm
23:10.01 Twingy you'd think 2d math would be easy
23:10.24 ``Erik dpeends on which two dimensions :D
23:10.48 Maloeran Erik, there were some interesting talks today about visualization of dynamic fluids, turbulence, vortexes ; the first interesting talks to me so far
23:11.17 Maloeran I really should have skipped the first 3 days, had I known that it was all about "Information visualization", or how to draw pretty eye-candy 2d graphs for humans to see huge datasets
23:11.55 Twingy but just think
23:12.04 Twingy with the knowledge you contain you could write powerpoint++ :)
23:12.20 ``Erik really, fluid dynamics are of strong interest to me, heh
23:12.23 Twingy powerpoint doesn't have a ray-tracer yet eh?
23:12.25 ``Erik but I was running errands all day :/
23:12.30 ``Erik no, but it has a flight sim...
23:13.25 Maloeran Same here, Erik. SURVICE wants me on their fire simulations too apparently, good timing
23:14.44 Maloeran For 3 days now, I feel like eating a huge plate/bowl of fruits, any idea where to find that in Baltimore? :)
23:16.21 ``Erik I thought I saw a grocery store when we were looking for food on monday, they'd probably have fruit platters in their deli area, or straight fruit
23:16.23 Maloeran I wish I could find that. Perhaps what I need is a grocery, not a restaurant
23:16.45 Maloeran Right, okay
23:17.24 brlcad there's a grocery about 15 minutes away, albeit not walkable at this time of day now, you'd have to cab it or something
23:17.41 Maloeran How is it not walkable?
23:17.53 Twingy SUPAH FOOD TOWN!
23:18.43 brlcad it's about 15-20 blocks southwest of the inner harbor
23:18.51 brlcad almost due south
23:19.11 brlcad which would require walking down some rather dark streets
23:19.26 brlcad not something I'd recommend for someone as skinny as you :)
23:19.33 Twingy just buy 100 of those neon light sticks and duct tape them to your body
23:19.45 Maloeran I never went anywhere it wasn't "safe" before, this is weird
23:20.03 Maloeran I might be skinny, but I made the Montreal games on the 100m and 500m runs not so long ago ;), I can run... fast
23:20.09 archivist sounds like a matchstick with the wood scraped off
23:20.12 brlcad it's actually pretty safe where you're at
23:20.39 brlcad you might run fast, but I bet a bullet or knife would still catch up quickly enough ;)
23:21.42 Maloeran Woah. Understood, I really am surprised
23:21.47 brlcad if you had your bike, I'd say go for it .. those neighborhoods around federal hill are pretty safe
23:22.03 brlcad it's just a bit much to walk
23:22.20 ``Erik if you do walk, only care enough money to buy what your'e going to get, keep your stuff in your sock, and try not to be too pretty o.O :D *duck
23:22.48 ``Erik but cabbing would be way preferrable or wait until morning *shrug*
23:22.53 brlcad seriously, just take a cab and you'll be there in about 5 minutes :)
23:22.58 ``Erik if I had fruit handy, I'd bring some down
23:23.01 Twingy heh, mal looked at me with shock when I told him that some parts of baltimore aren't the safest :)
23:23.25 ``Erik heh, I've been lost ins ome of those :D
23:23.30 ``Erik tore the shit out of that pt cruiser... *cough*
23:24.44 Twingy never trust google maps through baltimore
23:24.48 Maloeran It's just a fairly different environment. I have never seen a gun in my life, and you talk about these "tools" wandering the streets
23:25.15 brlcad heh
23:25.21 brlcad now that I find funny for some reason
23:25.31 brlcad we should go shooting something :)
23:25.33 Twingy you get into the projects with a bunch of crack houses and gangs, what do you expect
23:26.18 Twingy soon as the city cleans up a block or two, one or two more show up
23:26.48 Twingy company goes out of business, board up the building, becomes a crack house
23:26.56 Twingy simple as that
23:27.20 Maloeran If it's that simple, that should make the police's job very easy
23:27.24 brlcad heh, I'm not sure if that says anything about France or just you ability to be naive..
23:27.37 Twingy mal, the budget can't employe 10,000 police officers
23:28.03 Twingy just be glad you're not in turkey where if you lift up the wrong box it's a bomb
23:28.20 brlcad ding ding ding, you win! *boom*
23:28.41 Twingy school-mate of mine in college told me some of the horry stories he lived through before moving to america
23:28.47 Twingy *horror
23:33.10 Maloeran Probably mostly naivety, brlcad :), I think I have become a little wiser since then
23:33.54 brlcad :)
23:34.16 ``Erik given what efficiencies?
23:34.42 ``Erik ICE's tend to be horribly inefficient :(
23:35.02 ``Erik chemical energy vs kinetic energy at the wheel is abysmal
23:38.02 Twingy 17% efficiency
23:38.04 ``Erik hydrogen ice, or diesel indirect drive...
23:38.30 ``Erik (ice == internal combustion engine... heh, I'm an old battletech geek :( )
23:41.38 Twingy WINTER HAVEN, Florida (AP) -- Police Chief Paul Goward was tired of looking around his department and seeing blubber hanging over the belts of some of his officers. So he sent out a memo exhorting the "jelly bellies" to shape up.
23:41.38 Twingy In the end, the department lost 190 pounds -- all of them belonging to Goward. He was forced out as chief because some of his officers took offense at the memo.
23:42.56 Maloeran Sad.
23:44.50 Twingy sweet, my pair of palm sized 250 psi compressors just arrived
23:45.00 Maloeran Does "fruit" have a second meaning?
23:45.19 ``Erik http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fruit
23:45.35 brlcad the fruit of your loins does, I hope
23:46.04 brlcad regardless, that's a piece of fruit I wouldn't touch ;)
23:46.32 Maloeran That is weird
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061102

00:47.50 Maloeran Okay, that didn't work. I'm sorry to bother you again with this ; brlcad, where is that grocery of yours?
00:47.52 brlcad heh
00:49.05 ``Erik O.o
00:54.03 Twingy crap that thing is tiny
00:54.12 Twingy 100 psi on a friction fit
01:23.54 brlcad Maloeran: this is the place I'm thinking of: http://tinyurl.com/y6p5oj
01:25.00 brlcad in that shopping center is a little supermarket
01:27.26 brlcad which looks more like 20-30 blocks south and 20 or so blocks east, not what I'd said earlier .. down light street, over e fort ave and you're there (eventually)
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04:32.01 brlcad Maloeran: you also might just do better walking up to lexington market.. that's considerably closer and, if/when open (closes at 6pm), usually has an excellent fresh variety of stuff
04:32.06 brlcad http://www.lexingtonmarket.com/
05:26.26 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: begin 8.0 branch for backwards-incompatible/complex changes
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23:23.46 Maloeran So you deserted us Erik? :) Lee's city model isn't bad
23:31.46 Twingy mmm dessert
23:34.21 Maloeran Mmm, food
23:42.57 ``Erik heh, I went into one of the sessions...
23:43.03 ``Erik I just came out to use the restroom :)
23:43.10 ``Erik you guys were gone when I got out there, so'z I went hom
23:50.03 ``Erik yet still 30 minutes faster than the path lee takes, heh
23:50.05 ``Erik ed++
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061103

00:07.36 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-69-140-186-124.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:44.02 brlcad ed++, sounds like vi
00:44.17 ``Erik heh
00:44.31 ``Erik big ed
00:44.33 ``Erik :)
00:44.35 ``Erik the math guru
00:44.59 brlcad so he's what vi looks like
00:45.06 ``Erik key highway... rough fucking road, horribly rough, I was wincing the whole drive for my poor baby... but far far far faster than 395
00:45.24 ``Erik but in ed's cars, it's probably stomachable
00:45.39 brlcad heh, i'm on that road just about every day to the boathouse
00:45.49 ``Erik which, key, or 395
00:45.52 brlcad you drove by when you passed over the bridge
00:45.54 brlcad key
00:46.03 ``Erik I drove from hyatt to 95
00:46.18 brlcad yep
00:46.22 ``Erik and my stupid nav system wigged and tried claiming I was many miles away and facing a different direction, heh
00:46.25 brlcad that'd be the road
00:46.37 ``Erik so you're not doing the conference, I guess
00:46.42 ``Erik cuz, u, ain't really shit tomorrow
00:46.45 ``Erik it's a half day
00:46.54 brlcad yeah, not going
00:47.03 ``Erik well, if you want ot see the materials, lemme know
00:47.13 brlcad yup
00:48.25 ``Erik a LITTLE bit of good material, mal seems to think the later sessions have been getting more beneficial
00:48.44 ``Erik seing dudes I recognize from siggraph and rt
00:49.51 ``Erik there was a german dude at siggraph05 with a bigassed nosering and I THINK blue hair... he has green hair now
00:50.25 brlcad heh
00:50.35 brlcad the one that works for nvidia?
00:50.41 ``Erik ummmm, not sure
00:51.28 dtidrow_work heh - if so, they probably made him change the hair color to green ;-)
00:51.34 ``Erik hahahaha
00:51.41 ``Erik but he was wearing black, not white...
00:51.52 ``Erik stupid fucking nvidia *shakes fist*
00:51.59 dtidrow_work ???
00:52.05 dtidrow_work better than ati
00:52.26 dtidrow_work at least for non-Windows users
00:52.29 ``Erik (they flew me down for an interview, I was nervous so I didn't eat or sleep for over 24 housr before the interview start... and I blew it, and they didn't hire me... :D so I'm shakin' my fist)
00:52.45 ``Erik in '01
00:52.45 dtidrow_work ah
00:53.02 dtidrow_work they seem to be rather hard up for people now, so try again ;-)
00:53.36 ``Erik most of them were asking how much experience I had in smp driver writing, and all my machines were sp, not mp... I mean, all I had was theory and some userland on a dual fbsd
00:54.02 dtidrow_work ah
00:54.56 dtidrow_work yeah, haven't bothered to try with nvidia, don't have enough raw OpenGL or driver experience for them to be interested
00:55.05 ``Erik <-- was porting their linux driver to fbsd, ran into a wall with ioctl issues (nvidia exploited a 'weirdness' in linux)
00:55.16 ``Erik not a d3d guy, dti? :D
00:55.34 ``Erik they've been cooking in general mb's and audio stuff, too
00:55.54 ``Erik I wouldn't be surprised if they don't start pushing cpu's of some breed soon
00:56.10 ``Erik especially given the recent ati/amd "fusion" chip announcement
00:56.16 dtidrow_work d3d? yeecch
00:56.47 dtidrow_work doesn't do anything useful that OpenGL doesn't also do
00:57.06 ``Erik intel can't get in bed with nvidia like that, though, the 'corporate desktop' is an intel cpu and ati video
00:57.39 dtidrow_work no, it's an intel cpu and integrated video on the intel chipset
00:58.02 ``Erik <-- hardcore fbsd/mac guy, with strong ties to solaris and aix... won't argue with ya on d3d...
00:58.21 ``Erik hum, the corporate desktops I've almost always seen... always had... were dells with intel cpu's and ati video
00:58.34 dtidrow_work not anymore
00:58.49 dtidrow_work at least not integrated on mobo
00:58.55 ``Erik I've been workin' gov't for the last 3 and some change years...
00:59.00 ``Erik so I'm not on the cutting edge anymore
00:59.11 ``Erik we're able to sneak macs in, so I'm happy
00:59.28 ``Erik and so far with the dulls, i've been able to wipe winderz and install some variant of bsd...
00:59.46 dtidrow_work heh, neither am I - this Dell is over four years old now
01:00.02 dtidrow_work though it does only have FC4 on it :-)
01:00.23 ``Erik my impression was taht the i810's and i815's were for lamer home users, and low end radeons were corporate
01:00.36 ``Erik ew, not just linux, but a redhat breed, my condolances
01:00.56 ``Erik if you *HAVE* to use linux, why not debian? or mebe gentoo... haven't tried gentoo...
01:01.18 dtidrow_work because it does what I need it to do, and I'm not an elitist
01:01.21 dtidrow_work :-p
01:01.30 ``Erik ehhehehe
01:01.56 ``Erik ok, I do to much kernel shit, and I come from a security style background... so, uh, no linux... does... what I want...
01:02.57 ``Erik :)
01:18.51 PrezKennedy security is why windows rocks
01:19.01 PrezKennedy sorry... cant say that with a straight face
01:32.25 dtidrow_work rofl
01:33.05 dtidrow_work (just got back to my desk) - PrezKennedy, you owe me a new keyboard ;-)
01:33.30 dtidrow_work unless I can clean the Mt. Dew out of this one...
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02:48.21 DarkMaster watch out, mountain dew is dangerous
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12:52.33 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
13:23.58 ``Erik alexis
13:24.01 ``Erik we are here
13:24.17 ``Erik I'm at the round table in the upper lobby
13:25.29 ``Erik lee is looking for you
13:54.50 clock_ brlcad: I sent another hefty segfault into the bug database
13:55.09 clock_ brlcad: did you look into my second report from yesterday where objects were improperly mirrored during editation?
13:58.46 brlcad clock_: yes, I saw them both -- thanks
14:00.39 brlcad it'll take a while to investigate both of them fully, but you did a good bit of the leg worth providing the stack trace
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15:01.45 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
16:10.38 clock_ brlcad: is there a way when I have a cylinder that was subject to manual extension, rotation and translation, to figure out how tall it is?
16:11.10 clock_ brlcad: I built a truss from 10mm cylinders and now I want to know how long the key pieces are to be able to start welding in the right proportion
17:26.41 brlcad clock_: yes, do an l on the object -- you can get the height by looking at the H magnitude value or computing the distance between V and Top
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061104

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04:07.53 Maloeran Hum. I don't think I had realized how messy my appartment was before I lived a week in a hotel suite
04:43.59 Twingy you can clean my room up when you're done
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16:13.56 murat hi all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061105

02:26.52 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: Improved error checking
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04:44.42 Noobie can anyone get me past the ./configure portion of the install
04:45.17 Noobie i don't know if I can even get there i'm using Knoppix as my OS
04:53.13 Noobie can anyone help?
04:53.43 Noobie I will try again later
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05:27.30 ``Erik o.O
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13:40.38 Maloeran Erik, this ray-triangle benchmark of yours is completely broken
13:41.12 Maloeran I print out planes from the test, and I get a bunch of 0.0 equations, leading to infinities and NaNs ; obviously it's slow
14:17.50 Twingy he's ray-tracing imaginary planes, duh
14:27.06 Maloeran I would fix the code but that's just one of several things that don't seem quite right in there...
14:33.47 Twingy consider yourself a code archaeologist then, fixing remnants of the past
14:34.45 Twingy I'd say similar to the myth busters, but they have a habit of taking 500 year old technology and making it worse
15:41.25 Maloeran Hrmph. The public letter of Husseim to the united states contain way too many religious believes and statements, which is not technically a good move when dealing with followers of different... hypothesises
15:55.35 Twingy hypotheses
16:27.23 Maloeran Thanks
16:28.12 Twingy I have soooo many optimizations to do in gcam it's daunting
16:28.19 Twingy I have no motivation to do it either cause just about everything is instantaneous
16:28.39 Maloeran Eheh, nice. It has been some time since I had wrote this kind of software
16:29.00 Twingy all 2d intersection math so far
16:29.00 Twingy 2.5 dimensional
16:29.19 Twingy after getting this far with the project, you could transform just about any CAD package file format into a CAM ready file format if ordering is preserved
16:29.19 Maloeran Neat
16:29.29 Twingy but nobody seems to do that
16:29.37 Twingy order is not preserved and hence individuals have to come up with elaborate algorithms to figure out what the designer was thinking at the time of modeling because it was lost
16:29.41 Twingy I wouldn't be surprised if there are some cad packages that preserve this
16:29.42 Twingy preserved in a manner that was originally intended, not derived from a timestamp or something that just "happened" to be there
16:29.42 Twingy the disconnect between BRL-CAD and CAM is huge
16:29.42 Twingy you'd need g-code
16:29.42 Twingy even something as 'trivial' as a box requires breaking it into layers, computing offsets, adding depth to break the part away at the end
16:29.43 Twingy you might end up with 500 lines of g-code for a box
16:29.43 Twingy especially if it's steel
16:29.43 Twingy foam might be 50 - 80 lines
16:29.43 Maloeran Why the difference between steel and foam?
16:30.23 Twingy steel is slightly less hard than the end-mill (carbide usually) and therefore requires that you be very slow and conservative on your cuts otherwise you risk causing the stepper motors to skip a 'step' (1.8/20 deg) or cause and end-mill to snap
16:30.25 Twingy it's always a function of the end-mill, mill cnc steppers, and material being cut
16:30.25 Maloeran Okay. I wouldn't have thought going very slow would require 10 times more code
16:30.27 Twingy it's a multidimensional problem
16:30.27 Twingy and smaller the end mill doesn't necessarily mean you can cut faster
16:30.28 Twingy there is a curve, once you hit about 1/8" you have to start slowing down
16:30.28 Twingy otherwise you will snap it
16:30.28 Twingy Maloeran, your layers are .001" instead of .01"
16:30.29 Twingy each layers requires 4 or more lines of g-code, depending on tapering
16:30.29 Maloeran Right, okay
16:30.30 Twingy so as you can imagine you have machine profiles and endmill profiles
16:30.31 Twingy so that the software can figure out 'safe' operating limits
16:30.31 Twingy the g-code driving software is stupid
16:30.31 Twingy it doesn't care if you try to make it go 100km/h with a 2cm diameter endmill
16:30.32 Twingy it doesn't even know what the tool diameter is
16:30.32 Maloeran Well, it's low level and does what it's told I am assuming ; which is a good thing
16:30.33 Twingy yep
16:30.33 Twingy now emc has tried to bridge that gap
16:30.33 Twingy and make the driver smarter
16:30.34 Twingy a little too smart in my opinion
16:30.34 Maloeran You probably lose some flexibility that way
16:30.34 Twingy well, if you have a good cam package, all you need is a stupid driver
16:30.35 Twingy if you have a crappy cam package, or you do g-code by hand (gasp) you need a smart driver
16:30.35 Twingy gcam is like a g-code compiler
16:30.35 Twingy by pure definition, it's a compiler
16:30.36 Maloeran Eheh yes, a visual compiler in some ways too
16:30.36 Twingy right
16:31.14 Twingy with like 8 asm instructions :)
16:31.23 Twingy very analogous to coding an 8-bit pic chip
16:31.49 Twingy doing floating point math (your csg cube) can be done, but it requires many instructions
16:37.17 Twingy I suppose at some point one will be able to measure the efficiency of their code by the number of electrons required to solve the problem
16:41.37 Maloeran I don'T think it is possible to compute the minimal electron count required to implement an algorithm within a context of hardware processing
16:59.57 Twingy today's current hardware, no
17:00.48 Twingy a practical measurement for today would be something around nano watts
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17:10.23 Noobie is anyone available?
17:10.46 Noobie I need some help installing brlcad
17:11.06 Noobie i'm using Knoppix as my OS so I'm not even sure if it is possible
17:22.37 Twingy just idle until you find somone
17:24.29 Noobie will do
18:30.19 Noobie gotta go... out
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23:08.11 ``Erik me too, when I play games.. but I did that before with my c64, heh :D
23:09.06 Twingy I envision in like 20 years this disturbing looking cable with like 17 adapters on it
23:09.21 Twingy sticking 3 feet out of the back of the computer
23:09.27 Twingy angled 30 degrees
23:09.35 Twingy held in with duct tape
23:10.10 Twingy whose combined processing power is 1 week of a C64 just to send a character code
23:13.23 ``Erik hehehe
23:13.43 ``Erik I have new ps2 kbd's, but I like my old mitsumi precision din kbd a lot more *shrug*
23:14.12 ``Erik tho I do like the apple clear&white usb kbd's a lot
23:17.32 Twingy yes, they are good
23:17.43 Twingy I'm just amazed this natural touch has lasted under such abuse
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061106

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18:12.32 ``Erik http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/cats.htm
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061107

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19:21.23 Maloeran Erik, could you some time give me debugging information on that big endian graph cache loading crash thing?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061108

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061108

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01:49.53 Twingy siggraph 2007 advertisement
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061109

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061109

01:40.22 ``Erik (any anything with a bang is worth thinking twice about)
01:40.27 ``Erik woops, wrong chan
01:44.08 brlcad bang skippy
01:44.42 ``Erik ! in scheme means side effect, which means no referential transperancy, ... eliminates several categories of optimizations
01:45.37 brlcad !printf(!hogwash)
01:46.09 ``Erik that's C, not scheme
01:46.11 ``Erik ...
01:46.29 brlcad not really, just banging
01:49.44 Twingy is some one going to hand to hand prasad a torch tomorrow?
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18:43.41 ``Erik http://antibody.za.net/backstrokeofwest/
18:44.56 brlcad captions there be, mangled cool they are
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23:29.22 pra5ad gah
23:29.32 pra5ad this new xchat has no users list
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061110

00:19.51 Twingy yes it does
00:19.58 Twingy I think you have to turn it on
00:20.02 Twingy or drag the divider
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01:43.36 brlcad dtidrow_work: working late?
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13:05.54 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add a check during manual configuration for whether the gbs is even used, i.e. whether a configure template is found so that we can abort more cleanly early
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19:30.05 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add a make target and/or an update script for facilitating the release process.
19:41.14 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Disable component picking if NOT in BRLCAD mode.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061111

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03:34.53 Twingy hrm
03:35.00 Twingy logging into a mailbox with pine that hasn't been checked in 2 years might not be good
03:35.37 Twingy <PROTECTED>
03:36.19 Twingy that's 11 months of mail
06:22.03 brlcad hehe
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18:16.10 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
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18:57.05 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061112

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19:31.49 brlcad test34: failed?
19:49.09 b0ef would be nice if focus didn't follow mouse
19:49.45 b0ef it makes M-TAB impossible
19:51.35 test34 brlcad, no nothing else failed, I didnt get to it again yet
19:54.10 brlcad b0ef: that's usually something controlled by your window manager, and easily turned off (or use a different window manager that does disable it)
19:54.34 brlcad test34: twas but a joke based on your nick :)
19:54.56 test34 brlcad, ahhh ok;)
19:55.40 b0ef brlcad: but why does this only happen with brlcad?
20:24.05 brlcad b0ef: which platform are you on?
20:24.40 b0ef brlcad: GNU/Linux with metacity-2.12.1
20:25.13 brlcad and focus doesn't follow mouse if you move to another app?
20:26.06 b0ef brlcad: well, in a way, but with brlcad it's impossible to M-TAB the command window when the cursor is in the model window
20:27.04 b0ef brlcad: I have to move the mouse over the command window every time I want to enter a command
20:28.43 b0ef brlcad: am I making myself clear?
20:30.44 brlcad ah, yes
20:31.11 b0ef ;)
20:31.14 brlcad then the complaint really is that it's one a unified window but instead several independent windows ;)
20:31.23 brlcad er, that it's not one window
20:31.47 b0ef ?, not sure I follow
20:32.00 b0ef I really like the separation of windows
20:32.36 brlcad input-wise, what you're wanting is something like having two browser windows open, typing in one but have it show up in the other ;)
20:32.53 b0ef yes
20:33.02 brlcad just that these windows happen to look/behave different
20:33.04 b0ef I intend to use emacs as my input window when I get to it
20:33.32 b0ef I'm not sure if we're talking past eachother;)
20:33.45 brlcad know, I think I get what you're wanting..
20:33.52 brlcad how to get there is unclear
20:34.14 b0ef I want two separate windows, gimp style
20:34.22 b0ef I thought this was the intention;)
20:34.57 b0ef but they behave like they somehow have a relationship;)
20:35.03 brlcad it is, though individual windows don't generally aquire focus in gimp
20:35.14 brlcad aside from the main context ones
20:35.29 brlcad the difference here is that there are two main context windows always
20:35.47 brlcad with different bindings for each
20:36.06 brlcad if the graphics window didn't have key bindings, it'd be easy.. you'd just pass it all through to the command window
20:36.34 brlcad what if there were something like a command window toggle
20:37.00 b0ef well, I really intend to use emacs for brlcad, but have gotten that far, yet
20:37.00 brlcad like hitting M-c would switch focus or something
20:37.35 brlcad "use emacs for brlcad" can mean a whole lot of things
20:37.49 b0ef yeah, that would work, but is it not possible to make M-TAB work?
20:37.51 b0ef well, a brlcad mode
20:37.59 b0ef instead of using the command window
20:38.55 brlcad a geometry major mode for emacs would be sweet
20:39.01 b0ef ;)
20:39.11 brlcad looked into it a little bit years ago, but never got off the ground
20:39.46 brlcad something akin to tar mode would work well for dealing with .g files in emacs
20:41.47 b0ef is verse something planned for brlcad?;)
20:43.55 b0ef maybe a bit premature;)
20:45.09 brlcad you mean using verse itself to communicate
20:45.17 brlcad or distributed modeling in general?
20:45.34 b0ef distributed modeling;)
20:45.43 brlcad ahh, yes that is planned
20:45.52 brlcad though whether verse would be used remains to be seen
20:46.23 brlcad there are several rather viable approaches including verse for the communication backend
20:47.54 b0ef how about making brlcad a daemon?
20:49.23 b0ef then connect interfaces like mged
20:50.08 b0ef and OSC for command protocol;)
21:04.27 brlcad b0ef: that's actually not far off how it currently behaves
21:05.04 brlcad and is exactly what the new interface will do as well, though with a more rigorously defined interface
21:05.35 brlcad OSC?
21:05.42 brlcad operations support command?
21:06.50 brlcad or the sound communications protocol?
21:24.45 b0ef brlcad: excellent;)
21:24.59 b0ef brlcad: yeah, the sound protocol
21:25.33 b0ef the sound in the name is a little misleading;)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061113

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061114

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08:08.43 brlcad Maloeran: ping
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08:49.32 brlcad Maloeran: if you happen to have a nice screenshot handy, I could use it -- something benign but interesting
08:50.13 brlcad plus I'm looking at formulating rough performance bounds in terms of rays/s for comparison purposes
08:50.26 clock_ brlcad: what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line?
08:50.34 clock_ Is it input X output Y or input Y output X?
08:51.06 brlcad Maloeran: librt sits at roughly 100k to 1M, adrt at 500k to 5M, rayforce at ?
08:51.45 brlcad Maloeran: also would it be okay to provide a link to your site (rayforce.net)?
08:52.00 brlcad clock_: what matrix line?
08:52.50 clock_ brlcad: if you edit matrix in a text editor, it is on a line as a sequence of 16 numbers
08:53.06 brlcad 4x4 matrix, homogeneous coordinates
08:53.23 clock_ what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line?
08:53.59 brlcad still not sure if you mean the second of 16 or some other line?
08:54.05 clock_ second of 16
08:54.11 brlcad it's 16 values that form the 4x4 matrix
08:54.35 clock_ the second value is not 16 values. The second value is just one value.
08:54.57 brlcad that's not what I was saying
08:55.09 clock_ what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line?
08:55.30 brlcad i'm saying it's a 4x4 transformation matrix :) .. so the second value is simply the second element of that matrix
08:56.07 clock_ it's good to know that the second element is a second element
08:56.32 brlcad to say that is "is" anything other than that would be rather misleading
08:56.36 clock_ but what is the meaning?
08:56.46 clock_ the meaning of the first element is input X output X
08:57.04 brlcad if applied to a vector in a multiplication, it has one effect, if applied via some different operation, it has a different result
08:57.04 clock_ but the meaning of the second element may be input X output Y, *OR* input Y output X
08:57.13 clock_ Depending if you scan the matrix by rows or by columns
08:57.17 clock_ So what is the meaning?
08:59.10 brlcad i'm still not understanding where you're getting input and output from
08:59.18 brlcad input to what? output to what?
08:59.32 clock_ It is a transform matrix, right?
08:59.38 brlcad yep
08:59.42 clock_ That means it's a matrix that defines some transform.
08:59.51 brlcad naturally
08:59.58 clock_ Transform is something where you throw something in, and something else falls out
09:00.17 brlcad that's one way to look at it I suppose
09:00.18 clock_ We can imagine it like a box which has a funnel at the top and holet at the bottom
09:00.28 clock_ We take a point in 3D space and throw it into the funnel
09:00.35 brlcad i tend to think of a transform as something you apply, and you get a result
09:00.37 clock_ Some other point in 3D space falls out from the bottom
09:00.50 clock_ Now how the transform works inside
09:01.10 clock_ When the point falls into the funnel it's taken apart into X, Y and Z coordinates
09:01.18 clock_ like 3 drinks
09:01.34 clock_ and there is a bartender inside which mixes the input 3 drinks into 3 output drinks
09:01.47 brlcad i think you're perhaps just used to characterizing it how you've come to understand/visualize it as opposed to the actual operations that go on
09:01.53 clock_ The matrix tells him how much of each input drink should go into each output drink
09:02.06 brlcad there are tons of ways to conceptualize it
09:02.20 clock_ He has kinda table, where he has "input drinks" and "output drinks"
09:02.30 clock_ This table is called the transform matrix
09:02.36 clock_ You took the table and flattened it out
09:02.56 clock_ However there are two ways how to flatten. You can read it like a book, or read it like Chinese do - by columns
09:03.00 brlcad i don't think you're listening
09:04.02 clock_ You are unable to answer the question whether the second number of 16 has meaning "coefficient for propagation of input X into output Y" or "coefficient of propagation of input Y into output X".
09:04.20 clock_ That's a basic knowledge of how affine transformations work, sorry
09:05.43 brlcad heh, whatever .. i'm pretty sure it's just a difference of semantics and language familiarity
09:05.55 clock_ But I want to know it, because without this knowledge I cannot produce the right sequence of 16 numbers for a given transform
09:06.14 clock_ If you cannot tell me that, I will have to perform an experiment in brl-cad
09:06.27 clock_ Or, alternatively
09:06.31 brlcad i think you're just asking is element two on the second column or the second row, and the answer would be it's the second row
09:06.40 clock_ we have a transform that transforms (x,y,z) into (x+y, y, z)
09:06.49 clock_ What sequence of 16 numbers corresponds to this transform?
09:07.20 clock_ Knowing the row or column is not enough
09:07.38 clock_ There are 2 ways how matrix multiplication can be defined, which differ by swapping rows and columns
09:07.52 brlcad along with the fact that it's a right-handed coordinate system
09:07.56 clock_ What sequence of 16 numbers corresponds to the transform (x,y,z) -> (x+y, y, z)?
09:11.18 clock_ brlcad: can you please figure it out?
09:20.05 brlcad actually, i'm just in the middle of preparing a presentation, while trying to placate your oddly worded question... how to apply a matrix seems rather obvious .. even with your case, it's not clear how to relate the matrix elements to your question exactly -- the diagonal is along elements 0, 5, 10 (and 15 for homogenity) -- if I understand you correctly, the matrix would be something like 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
09:22.07 clock_ I think it's completely clear
09:23.13 clock_ so if you put this matrix into a combination, the element of the combination will be transformed so that point (1,1,1) in the original element will map onto (2,1,1)?
09:24.17 clock_ This is so typical for mathematicians - they can calculate 1+1 by integral, but if you ask them "which of your hands is right and which left", they reply "I don't think I understand your question completely"
09:29.31 clock_ brlcad: if a point is transformed by matrix in brl-cad, is it put into a matrix 3 high and 1 wide, or 3 wide and 1 high?
09:36.52 clock_ Does it make sense if the last 4 numbers are anything else than 0 0 0 1?
09:39.08 brlcad technically, all vectors (and matrices) are stored via regular C arrays, so 3 "wide" would probably be how you'd interpret that if that's how you conceptualize int a[10]; as being 10 wide
09:39.42 brlcad yes, it "can" make sense, but rarely is anything but homogeneous
09:44.17 brlcad the biggest difference with your question earlier is that really there is more than one way to think about it -- you have found one way that you are comfortable with that works for you but that is by far not the only way to think about it and/or word it
09:45.00 brlcad all just a matter of perspective
09:45.01 clock_ Well let's formulate the question more precisely
09:45.01 clock_ If I edit a combination, the combination can consist of several elements.
09:45.15 clock_ Each element has a line. That line holds a sequence of 16 numbers which define a transformation
09:45.36 clock_ Element is taken, transformed by that and then processed by logical operators in the combination.
09:46.20 clock_ So does the 2nd number mean how X of the original element is mapped into Y of the processed one, or vice versa?
09:46.43 clock_ You cannot say "it's a matter of perspective now", because then the behaviour of BRL-CAD would depend on perspective of it's user, which it doesn't
09:46.44 brlcad a 4x4 homogeneous tranformation to a right-hand ruled coordinate system where +z is in the up direction
09:47.00 brlcad that alone should be enough information
09:47.17 clock_ No it isn't.
09:47.31 clock_ I can construct 2 interpretations of this that produce different results with the same sequence of 16 numbers
09:48.02 brlcad what is this second interpretation that is not left-hand ruled?
09:48.31 clock_ First interpretation is that the points are put into vectors that are standing
09:48.36 clock_ second that they are lying
09:48.37 brlcad knowing that the values are perhaps not interlaced, are in incremental order by rows
09:48.42 clock_ Then the matrix has different effect on the points
09:49.07 clock_ Still, the effect is dependent on if the points are fed into standing vectors or lying vectors
09:49.22 brlcad you're referring to the actual storage I think, which could be either way
09:49.40 brlcad i.e. if I have int a[4][4];
09:49.54 brlcad or similarly int a[16];
09:49.57 clock_ you can tranform vector v as
09:50.01 clock_ vA or Av
09:50.15 clock_ in the first case v is a lying vector, in the other a standing one
09:50.40 clock_ Depending on which case you use, the same matrix A has different effect on the v
09:50.41 brlcad which therein I think perhaps shows the discrepancy
09:50.56 clock_ The same matrix represents a different transformation
09:51.03 brlcad on paper it makes a difference, in code it only really works one way
09:51.16 clock_ And I am just asking which way ;-)
09:51.22 brlcad and int a[3] doesn't have to be thought of as being wide or tall
09:51.32 brlcad it's just three values in order
09:52.01 brlcad vA can work as can Av .. it's up to use that determines which you get
09:52.06 clock_ Let's define cube.s which is rpp 0 1 0 1 0 1
09:52.17 clock_ then c combo.c cube.s
09:52.27 brlcad i'm sorry, I shouldn't have gotten started
09:52.35 brlcad it's way too late to keep going on this track here
09:52.44 clock_ OK good luck with presentation
09:52.57 brlcad wednesday
09:53.03 brlcad but dry run tomorrow
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16:01.06 ``Erik *yawn*
16:05.18 ``Erik brlcad: rayforce gets about 1.7-1.8 mil ray/sec on a 2.0ghz g5 (no altivec, single thread) on 267534 triangles, and 4.5-8 mil ray/sec on an opteron with sse (still single threaded)
16:07.45 ``Erik and in the neighborhood of 25k-29k lines of code, depending on which program you ask
16:20.46 Maloeran brlcad, screenshot like http://www.rayforce.net/smooth000.png perhaps?
16:21.37 Maloeran How much ram does an o200 have?
16:22.24 Maloeran You sure can provide a link to rayforce.net if you want, it's currently redirected to some draft of website put together by Survice
16:22.25 ``Erik the one I'm thinking have has I think 1.2g
16:22.52 ``Erik 1.125g, actually
16:22.57 ``Erik and TWO 180mhz r10k processors
16:22.58 ``Erik :D
16:23.05 Maloeran Woohoo
16:47.10 pra5ad what fps rate do u get for that m1a1
16:48.18 ``Erik it's gone
16:48.25 Maloeran Depends of the resolution, light sources, sampling, normal smoothing...
16:48.29 ``Erik and it was an a2
16:48.59 pra5ad for that screenshot
16:49.00 ``Erik rfdemo just does primary ray and flat shading, no shadow rays or anything, right mal?
16:49.25 Maloeran Right, I didn't import this code yet
16:50.15 Maloeran I think it was 6-8fps on my amd64 desktop, single processor
16:50.26 ``Erik so on a 2.0ghz single core opteron, with one light source and shadoing, probably ~7fps at 800x600
16:50.40 pra5ad ah
16:51.04 Maloeran Erik, the a2 is _much_ lighter than the truck
16:51.23 Maloeran The truck is saturated of long thin packed triangles that are difficultt o handle
16:51.59 ``Erik long thin triangles are a fact of life. :(
16:52.04 Maloeran You really have to put ADRT on that model too if you want to compare
16:52.12 ``Erik yeah, and rt
16:52.25 Maloeran It happens with converted CSG models, but modellers don't generally produce that kind of geometry
16:52.44 ``Erik probably happens with converted tnurbs, too
16:53.07 ``Erik outside of the game world, geometry generally comes in tnurb or csg as far as I can tell
16:53.33 Maloeran The CSG converter also leaves "gaps", apparently tesselating two distinct but connected curved surfaces differently and it creates small gaps
16:53.42 ``Erik oh crap, I left my slippers at home :/
16:54.02 ``Erik gaps and overlaps, yes
16:54.20 ``Erik especially how we do the tnurb to triangle conversion
16:54.24 ``Erik :/
16:54.41 Maloeran I mean serious gaps, covering the whole viewport if I zoom enough, not just some numerical problems that the raytracer would correctly handle
16:55.00 ``Erik yes... serious gaps... many mm...
16:56.21 ``Erik if you took a manhole, tesselated the ground with, oh, 20 edges (say 40 triangles for the outter rim), and tesselated the cover with 40 triangles but started from a different orientation, there would be serious gapping and overlapping... annnddddd that's what we get on curved surfaces with the current solution :)
16:56.52 Maloeran I see, understood
16:57.44 Maloeran Curved facets wouldn't quite solve the manhole situation though. Tricky thing
16:59.45 Maloeran My current curved facets make all points of an edge being aligned on a plane, plane which can be oriented in any direction
17:00.35 Maloeran Non-planar edges could actually work
17:03.21 ``Erik meh, just add dimensions until everything is planar ;)
17:04.01 Maloeran Seriously, we could have curved facets with non-planar edges, the math wouldn't be that slow
17:05.21 Maloeran 4 curved facets can make a sphere. One curved facet with non-planar edge could make a perfect... circle
17:05.57 ``Erik mmm a perfect circle... *looks through his playlist*
17:10.19 Maloeran Hrm sorry, not a perfect circle, of course. That would require some expensive extra steps that should probably be avoided for the sake of performance
17:25.00 ``Erik but the band is still cool
18:06.29 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: fix for fbsd7/sparc64 (hopefully)
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23:42.01 brlcad Maloeran: that'll work quite nicely, thanks
23:43.08 brlcad and given erik's numbers, it sounds like i'm in the right ballpark of 1-10M depending on the model and other factors
23:45.40 brlcad which is to highly estimate a lower bound if more lights and shading effects were to be enabled, full pass thorugh rays, etc
23:48.29 brlcad still coming out way ahead, and keeps expectations sensible given the audience
23:49.55 brlcad Maloeran: I have to ask given the image, but is it safe to assume that image is okay for release .. it's not a model that was provided to you by someone at arl or survice, I hope? otherwise, I'll have additional paperwork to do
23:54.27 brlcad Twingy: ping
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061115

00:09.18 Twingy pong
00:12.43 Maloeran It came from Twingy yes, the story surrounding that model is a bit messy... but that's just a screenshot, can it be a problem?
00:17.11 Twingy http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=634
00:23.00 brlcad Twingy: is that to imply, the video is okay for release? form 1'd to dod or open to anyone?
00:23.39 brlcad Maloeran: entirely depends whose model it is in general
00:24.07 brlcad assuming it's the model in 3dcadbrowser, then no it's not a problem at all
00:25.13 brlcad it looked a little too artistic to be a cad model, but have to make sure
00:26.26 brlcad though it looks like it could have very well been derived from one
00:38.14 Maloeran There's nothing cad about it, no inner part or engine, just an outer layer
00:38.37 Maloeran So quite likely an artistic model
00:39.36 Twingy brlcad, what do you think if it came off a public website?
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01:34.05 Maloeran The fact that it's an artistic model must explain why it's so raytracing-friendly too, the difference with Lee's truck is dramatic
01:43.50 brlcad probably several factors contributing
01:44.35 brlcad but at a glance, it just doesn't look like cad data traditionally looks.. not sure how to quantify it
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05:19.11 *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
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16:05.30 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/sedit.h: Metaball point picking
16:29.49 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: metaball point picking and moving
18:03.01 brlcad nifty
18:25.57 ``Erik heh, playing with it?
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21:52.20 brlcad ``Erik: pingish
22:00.21 brlcad would you happen to be able to compile/provide a staticly linked version of rfdemo?
22:01.24 brlcad sdl site is down, need to demo it but can't get a compile
22:01.24 brlcad (for mac os x)
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23:36.56 ``Erik brlcad: on the fileserver, /r/FreeBSD/ports/distfiles/ has a copy of SDL source
23:38.21 ``Erik if you can't get it, I can pull it off one of my machines here and chuck it somewhere for you, I think I have it in my darwinports dir
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061116

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02:09.55 brlcad ahh, server's back up now
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14:33.41 pho cool, got a couple fastgen models converted to rtml..
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16:28.44 Maloeran That shouldn't have been too hard :), a temporary format as simple as it can be
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061117

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08:46.00 K4rl33 Hi all
08:46.21 K4rl33 Someone know a irc network where I can find a cad community?
09:47.05 clock_ Stalinism in USA! Emigrate before it's too late!
09:47.22 clock_ http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UCLA_student_tasered_repeatedly.
09:47.47 clock_ See the video. The UCLA student was apparently tortured and bullied by police just because he forgot his university card!
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17:11.27 wiljaxon Hi! Is anyone able to advise on how to export 2D drawings for dxf output?
17:56.45 ``Erik http://freebsdgirl.com/~sektie/pics/cat_2006-11-15.JPG
19:33.24 archivist "but our meals taste of dog on thursdays"
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061118

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23:33.55 ``Erik izzit 'en cognito' or 'in cognito'?
23:33.58 ``Erik woops
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061119

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061120

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17:25.08 Maloeran The SSE shuffle instructions unable to do arbitrary shuffling doesn't help, it has to be hard-coded at compilation time. Gah, where's my Altivec
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061121

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16:15.21 ``Erik hm, prasad's not here
16:31.40 brlcad astute observation
16:31.59 ``Erik <-- has a stupid question for the boy
16:32.18 brlcad is there any other sort that he can handle?
16:32.24 ``Erik (here as in 'in channel', not geographically)
16:32.34 ``Erik ummm, actually, there may be some :)
16:33.00 ``Erik just gotta ask up his alley... he was horribly misapplied on that team.
16:33.27 brlcad you mean, questions about burning itching and open sores?
16:34.18 ``Erik some kinds of hardware questions, actually o.O
16:34.25 ``Erik (in a mood? usually I'm the asshole... :D )
16:35.06 brlcad in a good mood
16:35.11 brlcad he's just an easy target
16:35.14 ``Erik true
16:35.17 ``Erik are you on site today/
16:35.21 brlcad nope
16:35.25 ``Erik ah
16:35.32 ``Erik <-- half tempted to go get a beer o.O
16:37.09 ``Erik just don't give teh google any cookies. heh
16:38.18 ``Erik woop
16:38.20 ``Erik s
16:46.14 ``Erik holy crap, the dmg for xcode 2.4.1 is 923 megs
16:47.55 brlcad nice
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16:52.22 ``Erik on the fileserver in /r/Darwin/ if you want...
16:52.56 brlcad aiight
16:53.17 ``Erik (still copying... give it a few minutes)
19:30.29 Maloeran http://goddess.selfip.com/random/Motivation/Courage.jpg
19:36.45 ``Erik cute poster, and every good robot dies some day :/
19:42.13 dtidrow it's offically dead now?
19:42.16 dtidrow bummer
19:46.50 Maloeran They'll try to contact it from Rover on the surface but the odds are very poor
19:48.49 dtidrow yeah
19:49.47 dtidrow it's been living on borrowed time for a while now, anyway - it's lasted five times longer than originally planned for
20:23.36 ``Erik O.o
20:52.05 brlcad yeah, had a great run
20:55.36 brlcad Maloeran: the presentation was a hit, your proggie was one of the highlights of the show too
20:55.45 brlcad thanks for your help with the screenshot and datum
20:58.41 brlcad there was a fare bit of mildly decent discussions about the tradeoffs and considerations of the high speed tracing for analysis purposes
21:02.31 brlcad i'll post up the presentation in a week or two after it's more comprehensively reviewed and polished for your to see unless you'd like to see it as is now fouo
21:11.11 ``Erik did it get taped?
21:11.57 brlcad no, DoD audience
21:12.26 ``Erik ah, heh
21:12.31 brlcad mostly jaspo, jtcg, army, navy, air force, nasa
21:12.46 brlcad +contractors
21:13.26 ``Erik oh, uh, so the gist of the presentation, given the audience, is "we can make it go faster. <silent pause> The End."
21:13.43 ``Erik O:-)
21:14.58 brlcad even higher level than that sorta
21:16.08 brlcad here's what brl-cad is, here's how it fits in to the big pictures, here's some stuff it can do, here's something else called adrt, here's something else even faster called rayforce, here's the tradeoffs when you deal with raytracing and analyses, here are some pretty pictures and graphs, etc
21:16.16 ``Erik but converting it to cocoa would probably be a major hassle
21:16.33 brlcad nothing wrong with carbon
21:16.54 ``Erik well, klugy c++ pushing it, and I don't know it and have no references on it
21:16.56 brlcad it's the way to go if you want to control the run loop tightly
21:17.37 ``Erik heh, the part that needs control is gui free in a thread, the gui just requests it do t hings by putting events in its queue...
21:18.24 ``Erik which is good, I like that, that's how I tend to design guis for things where performance is a concern
21:18.54 ``Erik so I think the gui COULD be awfully loose, cocoa would make it cleaner and easier for me :/
21:31.44 ``Erik bahhhh
22:29.21 Maloeran Nice brlcad, I'm glad to hear it!
22:30.22 Maloeran I wouldn't have expected this kind of visual demonstration to be of any interest to non-technical persons, it's so far beyond gpu rasterization in eye-candyness
22:33.28 Maloeran far behind* :)
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22:40.29 brlcad Maloeran: I can usually put a pretty good spin during a presentation, put things into terms that non-technical people understand
22:41.02 brlcad get them impressed, perhaps even excited
22:41.19 brlcad depends on the material, prep, and context of course ;)
22:41.46 Maloeran *nods* Great, I can't do that :). Even Mark struggled to understand my overview of the raytracer techniques
22:42.54 Twingy if you can get people excited then viagra might try to buy you out
22:44.50 brlcad and'd I'd sell
22:45.21 brlcad cash out early
22:45.32 Twingy cash out while you're still up? *grin*
22:46.18 Twingy mal, who do you report to at survice now?
22:47.24 Maloeran Still Mark but he's supposed to move to Patuxent River ( or something like that ) soon, to be replaced by... Tony Krauss I remember that correctly
22:47.35 Maloeran +if I remember
22:49.12 Maloeran Out of curiosity, do you know this Tony?
22:51.48 Twingy I know a Tony the Tiger, but I dunno a Krauss
22:55.00 Maloeran Oh, might be the same one then. Any updates on Lee's potential leave?
22:56.45 Twingy you're asking me? hehe
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061122

03:08.05 Maloeran Erik or anyone else : is there a portable solution for detecting the size of pointers at preprocessor time? I'm not sure __WORDSIZE is really portable
03:25.24 brlcad Maloeran: I'm not aware of a truely portable means to do that
03:26.15 brlcad probably the closest that comes to mind would be some hack-trick of defining some internal struct with a pointer in it and using the offsetof() macro
03:45.16 Maloeran I need to know at preprocessor time, sizeof() and offsetof() are not available then
03:45.54 Maloeran If there's no standard cpp macro available, the only thing I can think of is sticking some test in configure.ac to dump the result in config.h and use that
03:46.20 brlcad offsetof is a preprocessor macro
03:46.51 brlcad though it probably still won't evaluate to something like a numeral .. hmm
03:48.16 Maloeran I just need to know if I'm dealing with 32 or 64 bits pointers at compile time when doing some messy SSE operations on pointers
03:49.19 Twingy write a little test program that returns the size
03:49.38 Twingy return sizeof(ptr_t);
03:50.14 Twingy put the test in configure.ac
03:50.28 Twingy either way you gotta do it
03:51.04 brlcad ooh, for *that*
03:51.19 brlcad yeah, just make a little program .. that gets shoved into the configure script rather trivially
03:51.25 brlcad then you have your symbol
03:51.40 brlcad for that matter, there are predefined autoconf macros to do exactly that for you already
03:51.40 Twingy why not use the HAVE_64bits
03:52.04 Twingy AC_LONG_64_BITS
03:52.08 brlcad # figure out what size pointers the compiler is actually generating
03:52.09 brlcad AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(int)
03:52.09 brlcad AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(long)
03:52.09 brlcad AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(long long)
03:52.09 brlcad AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(void *, 4)
03:52.18 Twingy AC_LONG_64_BITS is shorter :)
03:52.32 Maloeran I just put these things in configure.ac?
03:52.33 brlcad that just checks if longs are 64 bits
03:52.43 brlcad depends what it is exactly that you want to know
03:52.59 Maloeran I want to know the size of pointers, integer data types are already all defined in limits.h
03:53.04 Twingy all depends on what OS/Arch you're supporting
03:53.19 brlcad then probably just that last one, using void * or char * etc
03:53.30 brlcad it'll give you a preprocessor symbol for the result
03:54.04 Twingy I haven't setup a mail server since before I joined ARL
03:54.20 Twingy doing postfix + imap + dns + web + roundcube is making me type too much
03:55.20 Maloeran Neat, thanks. I got my SIZEOF_VOID_P symbol
03:56.50 Twingy I've almost saved a bulgogi lunch worth of energy
03:57.08 Twingy in terms of cost
03:57.36 Twingy 1 bulgogi lunch buys you 50kWh of electricity, heh
03:58.55 Maloeran Yes, that's a much more standard unit
03:59.28 Twingy ramen is a good one
03:59.36 Twingy I might have to do kiloramen though
03:59.41 Twingy otherwise the number gets too big
04:02.06 Twingy 794 960 joules
04:03.00 Twingy 4.5285 ramen per kilowatt hour
04:03.09 Twingy a hair more than a twinkie
04:04.14 Twingy my roof reminds of the space race in civilization
04:04.15 brlcad how much are you using for ramen cost?
04:04.26 Twingy 190 calories = 4.5285 kWh
04:05.29 Twingy the inverse of that rather
04:05.54 Twingy humans require 2.0 - 2.3 kWh a day to live
04:11.22 brlcad erm DRA is 2000 calories average, most eat 3k .. i think i average about 4k with the workouts
04:16.29 Twingy I try to stay around 2000 with a 2 mile run every other day
04:16.49 brlcad that's a pretty sure way to lose weight
04:17.55 brlcad probably burning about 200-500 for the immediate run, plus a few hundred more residual through the day
04:18.33 Twingy I run after work
04:18.43 Twingy which makes it difficult
04:19.07 Twingy been doing this for the last 3 years or so
04:19.53 Twingy hrm
04:19.59 Twingy imap is not letting me log in
04:20.23 Twingy problem to solve tomorrow, bed time
05:10.36 *** join/#brlcad dragonlake (n=dragonla@221.221.238.208)
08:07.32 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
15:15.05 Maloeran It's really hard to believe no one taught compilers how to manage registers properly yet
15:15.27 clock_ Maloeran: that's the theory of register allocation
15:15.48 clock_ You make a variable lifetime analysis
15:16.31 clock_ and then colour the DAG with the same number of colours as you have registers
15:18.02 Maloeran That's some nice theory, all the implementations are terribly broken in practice
15:18.28 clock_ you mean like gcc producing
15:18.30 clock_ mov ax,cx
15:18.32 clock_ mov ax,bx
15:18.33 clock_ ?
15:19.11 Maloeran The list of horrors goes on and on... Typical non-sense : Load A into xmm0, load B into xmm1, move xmm0 to xmm2, load C into xmm0
15:19.48 clock_ It could have loaded A right into xmm2, right?
15:20.08 clock_ Maloeran: but then the alrogithm is wrong
15:20.22 clock_ it should have figured out it's a single variable and give it a single register
15:20.27 clock_ and not smear it all around
15:21.04 Maloeran These are not even "variables", just internal temporaries
15:21.34 clock_ well, it then needs internal temporary dependence graph colouring :)
15:21.49 Maloeran It's really a mess, and it's saturated of such inefficient use of registers
15:22.03 clock_ it's easier for the ivory tower kooks from gcc when they live in an illusion they are good than if they actually did something that is really good
15:23.51 Maloeran Last time I quickly rewrote a big chunk of code in assembly, it was 30% faster just because of the half-decent register management
15:23.51 clock_ Maloeran: tell them about the problem - and they will ignore you. Insist on solution of the problem - they will mark you as their enemy
15:24.11 Maloeran GCC has got to understand that the variables in inner loops are _more_ important, and to keep the good stuff in registers instead of hitting the stack constantly
15:24.25 clock_ Maloeran: yes but everyone will tell you that today it doesn't pay off to write assembly code because today's compilers produce better code than a human assembly writer
15:24.41 Maloeran I heard that many times, compilers are pathetic
15:25.02 clock_ Maloeran: mov ax, cx mov ax, bx should have ben caught at least by the peephole optimization!
15:25.12 clock_ But this shows that even such a trivial peephole is not programmed in
15:25.19 clock_ mov r1, r2
15:25.24 clock_ mov r1, r3 translates into
15:25.27 clock_ mov r1, r3
15:25.57 clock_ Maloeran: but there are worse problems in the world than bad compiler output
15:25.59 Maloeran It goes that frequently when trying to shift by a variable count of bits, value must be in %rcx
15:26.01 clock_ for example a lack of sex
15:26.13 Maloeran But it will never load the value in that register directly, just move it around
15:26.47 clock_ Maloeran: why do you care? What kind of code do you write that you need speed?
15:26.58 Maloeran High-performance ray-tracing code ;)
15:27.04 clock_ BRL-CAD?
15:27.13 Maloeran Yes, the next raytracer of BRL-CAD
15:27.23 clock_ are you paid for that?
15:27.26 Maloeran Sure
15:27.34 clock_ I want to be paid for such things :)
15:28.07 Maloeran :) These are interesting problems to play with, it's great to be able to do that full-time
15:28.22 clock_ Maloeran: I can do fast programs even without assembly
15:28.42 clock_ Maloeran: for example run the Links browser. Display some big fat JPEG so that it is rescaled in the process.
15:29.19 clock_ Then relax and realize that the rescaling is performed in linear photometric space with 48bits per pixel and there is gamma correction and dithering applied after, even on 24bpp display
15:29.27 clock_ And it's not even in assembly.
15:29.40 clock_ But people tend to say my dither.c is hard to understand
15:29.41 Maloeran Using mmx there?
15:29.45 clock_ no mmx
15:29.49 clock_ just ordinary C compiler output
15:30.14 Maloeran Nice, though the problem is rather simple
15:30.23 clock_ Maloeran: I realized Linux people don't like self-modifying code
15:30.33 clock_ so I found out how to work around this limitation
15:30.53 clock_ I generate a separate routine for every memory organization using a #define template :)
15:30.56 Maloeran Processors generally don't like it much, but it's worth it if you modify once and execute million times
15:31.16 Maloeran Would you have an amd64 opcode emitter at hand?
15:31.25 clock_ Well - all the linux folks reached with their anti-self-modifying-code stance is that the code has to be bigger
15:31.30 clock_ but is as fast :)
15:31.46 clock_ what is an opcode emitter?
15:32.07 Maloeran To be able to generate binary encoding of instructions at runtime from code, to be able to run it
15:32.52 clock_ you mean to link an assembler into the program and then the program compiles parts of itself on the fly?
15:33.09 Maloeran More or less, the program generates optimized pipelines for the task at hand and executes them
15:33.09 clock_ I don't have amd64 assembler at hand.
15:33.43 clock_ Maloeran: what computer did you start with?
15:33.58 Maloeran I would prefer to do that instead of fixed assembly pipelines, once I get too tired of compiler incompetence
15:34.14 Maloeran I begun coding on a 486
15:34.36 clock_ I began basically with assembly on ZX Spectrum when I was 13.
15:34.44 Maloeran Trying to do fancy graphics on the thing, 2d and 3d, I learned assembly back then
15:34.58 clock_ I did fancy graphics too
15:35.05 Maloeran Eheh nice. I was 12-13 as well
15:35.13 clock_ for example I wrote a doom engine where there was a bathroom where there was 10 cm of blood on the floor
15:35.28 clock_ when you walked there, it did real waves and circles like on water which reflected off the walls
15:35.55 Maloeran Impressive, I struggled for a while to understand the basics of 3d rendering back then, quaternions especially
15:35.56 clock_ and when you killed an enemy, blood sprayed around the screen and then the drops slowly moved down
15:36.59 Maloeran Doing any work on or related to BRL-CAD lately?
15:37.09 clock_ no but I would like to
15:37.18 clock_ now I work as a C/ASM programmer on an embedded 186 platform
15:37.31 Maloeran Eheh, neat
15:37.57 clock_ but we are using Borland C compiler where the optimizations don't work at all even if there are flags for it. I find this compiler a big turnoff
15:38.01 clock_ It's buggy too
15:38.06 clock_ and it's a fossil.
15:38.25 clock_ and the CPU is buggy
15:38.51 Maloeran What are the chips used for?
15:38.59 clock_ for a MP3 player
15:39.05 clock_ or Internet radio
15:41.18 clock_ Maloeran: that's normal with today's products
15:41.41 clock_ Maloeran: if it happens more than once in 5 minutes it's suspicious, but 1 per day is normal today
15:42.29 clock_ unfortunately.
15:43.10 Maloeran Microsoft really managed to get the masses used to deal with crappy software
15:44.13 Maloeran Another "detail" : GCC never understood that movlps only takes 2 cycles instead of the 3 cycles of movss on amd64/Opterons for the same result in most cases
15:44.24 clock_ Maloeran: I have two penguin plush dolls, one 60cm high, another 15cm high
15:44.43 Maloeran movss for memory load that is
15:45.29 clock_ Maloeran: you can't really expect me to understand movlps by heart when I am working on a 186 platform and the last time I wrote assembly for fun, the latest processor was Pentium
15:47.07 Maloeran Eheh, sorry. In a context of scalar operations, movlps loads 64 bits from memory into xmm register and leaves the upper 64 bits untouched, movss loads 32 bits from memory and clears the upper 96 bits to zero
15:47.54 Maloeran Especially when the load is followed by a shuffle to replicate the float 4 times in the register, as it's often the case
15:49.07 clock_ does it calculate correctly?
15:49.13 clock_ Or does it divide like Pentium?
15:49.49 Maloeran Sure it's correct, and they fixed most of the "rounding mode" and denormals mess
15:50.12 clock_ wow!
15:50.19 clock_ Correct floating point implementation!
15:50.23 Maloeran The instruction set it still a mess and the instruction encoding is atrociously long because all the short opcodes are used for legacy 8086
15:50.33 clock_ Like I worked with some arm920t from Cirrus Logic and they had crappy FPU
15:50.40 clock_ sometimes it produced opposite sign etc. :)
15:50.46 Maloeran Woohoo :)
15:51.08 clock_ sometimes you had to wait a bit so it wouldn't make mistake etc. :)
15:51.14 Maloeran It's nowhere near the elegancy and efficiency of Altivec, but... it's usable, unlike mmx
15:51.23 clock_ what is altivec?
15:51.54 Maloeran Apple's SIMD instructions on their IBM processors, G3/G4/G5
15:52.05 clock_ it was crappy, but it had a bold-sounding name MaverickCrunch(TM)
15:52.20 clock_ You now today it doesn't matter if it works right or wrong - all that matters is the marketing.
15:52.53 clock_ If your engineers cannot fix it, one addition (TM) will do.
15:52.57 Maloeran That's mostly true, unfortunately
15:53.08 clock_ And that's also why I am doing http://ronja.twibright.com
15:53.16 clock_ and why I bought an old 8-bit computer yesterday.
15:53.25 clock_ I want to have at least one BugFree(TM) computer at home
15:53.35 clock_ It's the same model I had as a kid.
15:54.58 Maloeran Sounds nice. I grew up with a 486 and a Pentium 133
15:55.20 clock_ You never rode a healthy silicon horse :)
15:55.43 clock_ healthy pony better than a sick stallion
15:57.35 clock_ But Frederico Faggini was at least able to do it right on the first try
15:57.38 Maloeran The stallion doesn't run straight and occasionally crashes in stuff on the way, but it's still better
15:58.08 Maloeran Not a name I'm familiar with, not finding much on google
16:00.42 clock_ THe guy who designed Z80
16:03.37 archivist Z80 was slow
16:04.49 clock_ yes Pentium 4 @ 3GHz is faster
16:04.54 archivist 2meg 65C02 is da man in those days
16:05.04 clock_ 6502 was buggy
16:06.01 clock_ omg the old discussion what was better, whether a buggy 6502 virtually without registers that took little cycles per instruction or BugFree(TM) Z80 with tons of registers that took at least 4 ticks per inisn
16:06.26 clock_ "and Z80 didn't have the CRS instruction!"
16:06.40 clock_ CRS = CRash System
16:27.42 brlcad yay, ponies
22:21.55 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:10.35 ``Erik o.O
23:19.06 ``Erik /nick quanzaclause
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11:05.47 *** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@dib.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be)
11:06.41 jpjacobs Hi, i made a debian package for brlcad. I have to say, i don't know anything about making packages, the dependancies are not set since i don't know how.
11:07.47 jpjacobs but if anyone is interested anyway, i can upload it. (btw i also made a terminal-wrapper thing that sets the path's right, and should also modify ls-outputhiglighting (but that doesn't really work))
11:08.17 brlcad to the debian package tracker or elsewhere?
11:08.27 brlcad i believe there is a rfp in for one
11:09.09 brlcad otherwise, you can upload it to our anon ftp and I can post it to sf.net
11:09.27 brlcad ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
11:10.12 jpjacobs so it's ok that it's lacking dependancy info, and the brlterm thing isn't 10O% functional?
11:10.40 clock_ tell me why when I stream there is no reply
11:11.51 jpjacobs or anybody knows how i add the dependancies , and anyone want to look at the script?
11:12.18 brlcad brlterm thing?
11:12.33 brlcad clock_: when you stream where/to what?
11:12.46 clock_ I am making jokes out of Roxette
11:12.55 clock_ tell me why when I scream there is no reply
11:13.03 brlcad jpjacobs: alas, I'm only passively familiar with the debian packages.. enough to put them together when I have to but not enough to properly review one
11:13.20 brlcad clock_: ahh
11:13.33 clock_ brlcad: I am thinking about making a complete model of Ronja in BRL-CAD
11:13.34 jpjacobs Well, that's what i called the wrapper-script. It basically sets the right paths, and modifys LSCOLORS to contain entries for *.g and *.pix
11:13.37 clock_ including the lens, heel, etc.
11:13.54 brlcad jpjacobs: ah, okay
11:13.56 clock_ I tried a lens in brl-cad and it really behaves like a lens. It even focuses the light of the light sources
11:14.11 brlcad clock_: that would be awesome
11:14.31 brlcad inclusion-worthy even with the right polish
11:14.34 clock_ brlcad: can I put a point light source into the place of LED and it would make a circle of light on a wall?
11:15.45 brlcad there's a way to add directional lights, and you can always direct an omnidirectional light by modeling the light bulb itself (e.g. putting a lightsource into a hollowed out cylinder)
11:17.16 clock_ brlcad: I welded a truss holder and realized it can play spooky melodies
11:17.26 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/tetrax10.ogg
11:18.18 brlcad heh
11:18.18 clock_ and even made a Ronja ringtone out of it
11:18.22 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/ronja_rt.wav
11:18.25 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/ronja_rt.mp3
11:24.22 brlcad nice, pleasant even
11:27.08 clock_ sounds to me like the background from the nightmare in elm street
11:27.10 jpjacobs the .deb is uploading
11:27.29 clock_ brlcad: but BRL-CAD cannot calculate how it's gonna sound, right?
11:27.47 clock_ only how it's gonna look
11:29.20 brlcad you'd have to write a sound simulation
11:29.44 brlcad it can do the wave propagation using the multispectral library
11:29.58 jpjacobs it's there
11:30.05 brlcad but it would still require a lot of good simulation code to properly drive an acoustic simulation
11:30.10 brlcad jpjacobs: okay
11:30.36 clock_ what is wave propagation and multispectral library?
11:30.37 brlcad jpjacobs: thanks! .. it'll be a couple days before it can be processed given the holiday
11:31.25 jpjacobs np... if anyone has any tips on how to make it better, please contact me
11:31.28 brlcad clock_: to calculate "how it's gonna sound" requires simulating sound waves, which is not unlike a light simulation that the ray-tracers perform where light waves are propagated
11:31.51 clock_ brlcad: interesting
11:32.20 brlcad jpjacobs: can I get a real name to properly credit the contribution?
11:33.09 brlcad clock_: there's a multispectral simulation library in brl-cad for simulating different ranges of energies other than the visible light spectrum that liboptical simulates .. sound would qualify as a different spectrum ;)
11:33.25 jpjacobs Jan-Pieter Jacobs.
11:33.45 brlcad thx
11:34.01 jpjacobs np
11:34.13 clock_ brlcad: can it simulate microwave signature of F117?
11:35.46 brlcad yep
11:36.28 brlcad that's sort of the kinds of multispectral simulations it was designed for
11:37.58 clock_ brlcad: the problem of the lens is that it has to be done as an intersection of two huge balls
11:38.14 clock_ it's 13cm in diameter but the surface has curvature radius like 1m or so
11:38.26 clock_ this causes a lot of discarded calculations, doesn't?
11:39.03 brlcad spheres/ellipsoids are *the* fastest objects to evaluate, but yes, mildly discarded for parts
11:39.21 brlcad not something I'd worry about to say the least
11:39.31 clock_ can I speed it up to put it into a box and intersect with the box?
11:39.59 brlcad that wouldn't speed it up
11:40.06 brlcad two spheres will be way faster
11:40.12 clock_ brlcad: can I use it to simulate optical systems?
11:40.21 brlcad you can use an elliptical parabaloid, though
11:40.23 clock_ Like 2 lens and tune it in BRL-CAD and only after try in reality?
11:40.31 brlcad or a hyperboloid if that helps
11:40.48 clock_ brlcad: no the lens has spherical surface, I can't use paraboloid or hyperboloid.
11:40.51 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png ehy and epa on the left
11:41.23 brlcad you should be able to make a paraboloid that matches with the right parameters, no?
11:41.50 brlcad or just stick with spheres, they're still more simple
11:41.54 clock_ brlcad: can I make rotational paraboloid?
11:42.04 brlcad rotational?
11:42.15 clock_ brlcad: I mean like a parabolic mirror
11:42.27 clock_ is it a special case of epa?
11:42.42 clock_ like a mirror in flashlight
11:43.16 brlcad two epa's one subtracting from the inside of the other
11:43.33 brlcad offset is your mirror thickness
11:44.12 clock_ aha I thought epa is that it cuts into a parabolic in one axis and ellipsis in the other
11:44.42 clock_ too bad I have little time
11:44.51 clock_ it will take long until I draw the whole Ronja in BRL-CAD :(
11:45.05 clock_ and potatoid is possible too? :)
11:45.27 brlcad now with bigger chunks!
11:45.53 clock_ brlcad: the sketch does it mean I can make 2D blueprints like in Qcad?
11:46.00 clock_ with dimensions etc.?
11:49.16 brlcad it'll make the shapes, but not with dimensions like you're probably thinking
11:49.49 brlcad it's rather basic 2D editing frankly, not recommended for anything except basic shapes for extrusion
11:50.34 brlcad someone was looking into actually invoking qcad for the sketch editor and doing a transparent passthrough between the two apps but they didn't finish afaik
11:50.44 clock_ can the sketch import DXF drawing?
11:51.12 brlcad hmm
11:51.59 brlcad not easily, technically, it'd be a pretty trivial modification to make but currently the dxf importer brings drawings in as 2D wireframe objects
11:53.38 clock_ what can I do with 2D wireframe objects?
11:56.35 brlcad view them
11:57.04 brlcad support for 2D stuff in general is entirely lacking if you hadn't noticed.. we're solid modeling, not drafting
11:57.29 brlcad the fact that it even lets you bring them in is a little "insulting"
12:00.50 clock_ imagine the following task
12:01.02 clock_ you want to make a hole in a steel plate 20cm in diameter
12:01.11 clock_ but you only have 6mm drill.
12:01.31 clock_ in qcad I draw a 20cm circle and then draw 6mm circles one always in the previous intersection
12:01.38 clock_ that takes me like 2 minutes.
12:01.47 clock_ I can't imagine how to do this in BRL-CAD
12:02.57 brlcad because that's a rather 2d-centric task to start with perhaps, at least you have a 2d solution in mind
12:03.10 brlcad for solid modeling, there is no such direct translation, you work entirely in 3d
12:03.21 brlcad so you'd make cynlinders instead of circles
12:03.30 brlcad but otherwise, not much different
12:03.50 brlcad and it'd take me like 2 minutes for that particular thing too
12:04.40 clock_ but they wouldn't touch precisely, would they?
12:04.49 brlcad what wouldn't?
12:05.31 brlcad the cylinders? sure, why not? they'll be whatever you make them be numerically
12:06.01 brlcad no more or less aligned than specifying circles
12:06.19 brlcad the only difference there is 2d description vs a 3d one
13:25.02 clock_ brlcad: you would have to calculate the parameters of the cylinders externally
13:25.14 clock_ you would have to write a program for that. That's not in 2 minutes.
15:28.04 Maloeran Hiding in one's natural environment : http://xs309.xs.to/xs309/06474/DSCF0001.jpg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061124

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15:26.59 elite01 hi - is brlcad easy to get into?
15:29.47 clock_ yes
15:30.13 elite01 and how long does it take to build? (pentium 4 at 3.4GHz)
15:30.14 clock_ there is a howto for starters
15:30.19 clock_ not much long
15:30.19 Maloeran I think that depends what you are used to
15:30.22 clock_ like ordinary program
15:30.34 elite01 nice, thanks
15:39.11 clock_ elite01: brl-cad is no problem to use. It's not like the modern bloatware with million dependencies on widget toolkits, java, xml parsers etc.
15:39.24 clock_ and if you don't have the secret magical combination of version numbers it explodes
15:39.34 clock_ you just download brl-cad, compile, install here you go
15:40.13 elite01 yes just did make install
15:40.22 elite01 (well it's *still* running)
15:48.51 elite01 can one also model/simulate lenses and other optical stuff?
15:48.59 clock_ elite01: yes
15:49.03 elite01 very nice :)
15:49.08 clock_ elite01: I tried and it worked
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17:10.38 elite01 in mged - i hat b and now stuff is spinning... how do i fix that? :)
17:12.01 elite01 ah got it
17:17.43 clock_ elite01: stop smoking the weed
17:17.55 clock_ elite01: then the stuff will stop spinning
17:18.49 elite01 hehe :)
17:48.43 elite01 now, i've got a small object which i can't see even if i zoom in - but the raytracer draws it
17:50.03 clock_ elite01: try to turn off z clipping
17:52.54 elite01 still not showing up
18:04.22 clock_ try restarting BRL-CAD
18:04.34 clock_ if that doesn't help, restart your PC
18:21.13 elite01 now, soudns like a windows trick, that one :)
18:22.37 elite01 still, restarting brl-cad did the trick - well nearly... i can see half of the cube
18:52.30 ``Erik 'half'?
18:53.18 ``Erik and jerkcity is awesome :D very twisted
18:53.36 ``Erik http://jerkcity.com/jerkcity8.html
18:53.49 ``Erik http://jerkcity.com/jerkcity5.html
18:53.51 ``Erik brilliant :D
18:56.15 ``Erik damnit
18:56.42 ``Erik alias sl=ls
18:56.43 ``Erik o.O
19:02.11 Maloeran I _really_ don't get the humor, ``Erik :), I tried to understand
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19:26.57 Maloeran Oh, that one actually makes sense : http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1110.html
19:41.51 Maloeran This is horrible. Litvinenko was found to be poisoned with ingested radioactive plutonium, yet Putin claims there's no evidence his death was unnatural, and main russian medias still haven't said a word on the matter
19:43.14 Maloeran I didn't realize Russia's socio-political climate was so... sick
21:17.49 ``Erik ls
21:58.09 ``Erik heh
21:58.14 ``Erik rm -rf archivist
21:58.15 ``Erik :D
21:58.46 archivist my bot pretends to lose its data with rm -rf
21:59.30 archivist its playing with the users
22:00.17 ``Erik heh, make it roundrobin kb with the kick message "I DON'T KNOW YOU!"
22:00.18 ``Erik :D
22:00.44 ``Erik (and everyone gets to laugh when it kickbans itself, heh)
22:00.45 ``Erik :D
22:01.04 archivist kickban not implemented
22:01.24 archivist mainly used for man pages and factoids
22:01.55 archivist but with the right factoids one can fool a few users
22:04.41 ``Erik <-- prefers seeting up webpages for that to avoid channel clutter
22:04.47 ``Erik I like my bots as silent as possible
22:05.38 ``Erik http://math.missouristate.edu/opengl/faq.php is one o fthe pages I made for a chanenl (I wrote the php/sql and a program to snarf the original file, the content is mostly brink and roads)
22:07.51 archivist my fun for the mysql bot was writing the xml reader
22:13.19 ``Erik didn't use a lib?
22:16.41 archivist did it using php, the xml has display crap I have to ignore mixed in, just picking titles, paragraph headings and index terms
22:17.03 archivist it uses the xml parser that php has
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061125

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061125

02:09.56 ``Erik (does it sound like it's eating frames to anyone else?)
02:09.59 ``Erik oops
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15:47.35 brlcad elite01: did you ever get the problems figured out?
15:48.02 brlcad turning off zclipping on the misc menu sounds like one likely issue you were running into as well as perhaps an enabled framebuffer
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17:25.27 elite01 brlcad, i had the framebuffer disabled
17:26.08 elite01 think it was z-clipping or z-buffer
18:32.13 elite01 ok, thinks like the framebuffer was enabled - and when z-buffer is also enabled, it's broken
18:32.52 elite01 well, need to go - see you
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061126

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061126

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14:50.43 ``Erik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvjdzfV2iFQ
14:58.41 Maloeran Still no support from youtube for non-flash platforms and people, meh
14:59.55 brlcad heh, quite a disjoint defensive talker there
15:01.34 ``Erik it'd be rough for ya anyways, mal... norweigan with fairly literal (or poorly done) english subtitles
15:09.09 Maloeran Do you know any GCC intrinsics or pthread-level mechanisms to expose 'lock cmpxchg' or 'lock xadd' instructions? Of course that wouldn't be portable, but much faster than mutexes if appropriate and available
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16:40.11 Maloeran Oh, cool thing. Erik, are you able to check on some non-ia32/amd64 box what you got in /usr/include/asm/atomic.h ?
16:43.47 ``Erik erikg@ti ~$ uname -p ; ls -ld /usr/include/asm
16:43.47 ``Erik powerpc
16:43.47 ``Erik ls: /usr/include/asm: No such file or directory
16:44.18 Maloeran Okay, the stuff is not portable. Thanks
16:46.31 brlcad quite.. i think that's linux-only no?
16:48.11 Maloeran Probably so, I really don't know much of OSX
16:48.48 Maloeran I was wondering if there could be some equivalent functionalities exposed there, even if different
16:49.02 brlcad os x provides similar goo in /usr/include/libkern/OSAtomic.h
16:49.08 brlcad i think bsd provides something like /usr/include/machine/atomic.h
16:49.52 Maloeran Ah I see. Thanks
16:49.53 ``Erik erik@fenris /usr/include$ uname -ps ; find . -name atomic.h
16:49.53 ``Erik FreeBSD i386
16:49.53 ``Erik ./machine/atomic.h
16:50.27 brlcad they are pretty similar -- how to perform various operations atomic, various math ops and get/set ops
16:52.20 brlcad if anything, dual boot solaris or something.. that's almost guaranteed to break something usually :)
16:52.32 brlcad oozes system V-ness
16:53.41 brlcad none of that wacky bsd 4.3 standardification crap ;)
16:53.42 ``Erik heh
16:54.00 ``Erik does solaris10 have an amd64 variant?
16:54.20 brlcad sun ships one, so I'd hope so
16:54.47 brlcad but dunno
16:56.11 Maloeran Erik, I would be pleased to replace my desktop but any other architecture than amd64 is overpriced for the processing power you get. Trying out Solaris sounds good though
16:58.30 brlcad a bsd might get you more bang for the buck as it's easier to get up and running and is at least a little bit different than linux
16:58.43 brlcad or both!
17:00.05 Maloeran Right, I played with fbsd in the past although I couldn't even manage to install it on the laptop
17:02.01 Maloeran It apparently detected the disk geometry wrong, but didn't realize that and tried copying files ( and failing ) until the installation was "complete" *cough*
17:03.25 ``Erik I d'no if solaris 10 is really lagging... 8 was a bit archaic, yeah...
17:03.41 ``Erik but 10 has a lot of stuff that many others are playing catch-up to
17:03.45 ``Erik apparently
17:04.16 ``Erik and that problem still boggles me, mal... we didn't get around to trying it when you were here for vis, tho :/
17:05.18 brlcad lagging in userland tools, not the kernel and architecture itself
17:06.27 ``Erik hrm
17:06.36 ``Erik first thing I tend to do on a sun box is start populating /usr/gnu
17:06.41 ``Erik cuz I'm lame
17:06.55 brlcad that's cheating :)
17:07.14 ``Erik yeah
17:07.15 ``Erik I suck
17:07.31 brlcad some of their tools are often a better approach.. but they just lack features overall
17:08.27 ``Erik heh, they're different
17:08.36 ``Erik I was heavy into solaris back at fedex
17:08.46 ``Erik but *shrug* before and after, I'm a bsd guy
17:10.16 brlcad bsd approach is usually simple and powerful, a little more carefully chosen than the linux kitchen sink approach (as a broad stereotyping statement of course, exeptions to both)
17:11.17 ``Erik fbsd has had fits of kluge... but there's been a heavy effort to clean house lately
17:11.29 ``Erik like a couple years ago, perl was removed from the base system (yay!)
17:17.15 brlcad nifty
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061127

01:52.16 Maloeran http://www.cjcc.com/Images/funny%20picts/When%20Your%20SysAdmin%20Is%20Bored.jpg
01:54.26 ``Erik nice
01:55.34 brlcad hah
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17:09.56 Maloeran Cool, there's progress from Survice for the immigration visa demand. Though... From this lengthy paperwork and exchanges with lawyers, I didn't realize it would imply more than a couple thousands in fees for them o.O
17:10.13 ``Erik heh
17:10.21 ``Erik probably in the neighborhood of 20k used?
17:10.22 ``Erik usd
17:10.26 ``Erik *shrug*
17:10.40 clock_ Who's immigrating into the US?
17:10.56 Maloeran No clear idea, but they hired people at 265USD/hour to work on it
17:11.10 ``Erik bear in mind... every single cost to them for you... all of everything they're paying, they're making at least twice that much in profit.
17:11.20 Maloeran clock_: I am, or at least I think I am. I'm presently working from Canada
17:11.28 ``Erik clock: work is work...
17:11.44 ``Erik and bush and his ass clowns will be gone in a bit... jan '09, WOOOOOOO!!!!
17:11.53 clock_ Is it possible to work on BRL-CAD from Hawaii?
17:12.29 Maloeran ``Erik, do you mean that the ARL is covering all these costs?
17:12.33 ``Erik you can work on brl-cad from anywhere.. getting paid to work on brl-cad all depends on the vehicle for the work order
17:13.03 ``Erik mal: arl is paying a snotload, which probably easily covers all of their expenses, plus they'll have you work on shit they sell to other companies
17:13.35 ``Erik trust me, if you weren't giving them a non-neglegible profit, they would not bother with you. They're doing what they're doing to maximize profit. nothing else.
17:14.23 ``Erik if you were actually costing them money in the long run, your contract would be gone and someone would probably be fired in the mgmt chain there :)
17:14.41 ``Erik business is as business does
17:15.37 Maloeran Right, okay. I guess I'll never know how big a piece of the cake Survice is grabbing on the way ;)
17:16.22 ``Erik the general rule of thumb in industry is that you see about 1/3 of the billing rate
17:16.22 brlcad you really don't want to know that
17:17.11 ``Erik and for 'regular' employees, the cost to company is about 2.4x gross salary
17:18.52 ``Erik <-- has a perverse interest in the numbers o.O also enjoys things like dan wheelers "sloccount"
17:19.48 ``Erik money is a tool
17:19.51 ``Erik a very real one
17:19.59 ``Erik and I like understanding tools
17:20.12 ``Erik programming languages and os's are tools
17:20.33 ``Erik brlcad is a tool, but I gave up on understanding him... brlcad is as brlcad does. ;)
17:20.34 brlcad I mean as a contractor, it's usually not a good idea to know what your charging rate is.. mutually to you and your company
17:20.36 Maloeran I think I vaguely understand economics, but I don't understand the appeal of profit maximization
17:21.00 ``Erik public companies have a contractual obligation to maximize profit.
17:21.20 brlcad aside from the politics of the rate and fact that it can be daunting to realize how much they take ;)
17:21.35 ``Erik short term profit, even. :/ quarterly dividends to stock holders, etc
17:21.44 brlcad ~dict tool
17:22.01 Maloeran I don't really want to know, brlcad, I just realize it can cover extra expenses. Believe it or not, I was worried for a moment
17:22.20 brlcad yeah, it can cover whatever the heck they want it to cover
17:22.23 brlcad within legalities
17:22.25 ``Erik mal: they will let you know that you have something to worry about well before you have something to worry about
17:22.58 ``Erik your interest is coding, they know that... keep coding, and enjoy the creature comforts the paychecks afford you
17:23.07 ``Erik and don't worry about the bs
17:23.29 Maloeran Okay, sounds like a good deal to me :)
17:24.27 ``Erik if they realize you're reasonably competent, you'll be golden as long as you don't do something idiotic
17:24.36 ``Erik like smear the ceo's office in feces
17:25.02 ``Erik unfortunately, many non-technical people judge technical competency by the degree held...
17:25.15 ``Erik so even if you think it's stupid, it *IS* in your best interest to get at least a bs
17:26.05 ``Erik (and when you apply to a job... the very first people who see your resume are nontechnical hr people... no degree? it'll never get to the technical people who can recognize skill and ability.)
17:27.05 Maloeran I just want to do what I enjoy, and that is coding. If I were unable to keep on doing that for a living, I'll do something else part-time with plenty of free time again
17:27.10 ``Erik a friend of mine who worked as a mgr for intel... was trying to get a russian dude into their chip design team... had a bitch of a time fighting with hr because the dude didn't have a degree, even though he was a wizard at ic design and when they got him in, he did awesome things... but no degree, so there was a stigma
17:27.19 Maloeran But I really don't think I want to go to school again
17:27.43 ``Erik sometimes we have to do a little of what we dont' want to in order to do a lot of what we do want to. :(
17:29.46 ``Erik I dropped out of college cuz it was stupid in '95... I dropped back in because I realized that the piece of paper was actually important...
17:29.55 Maloeran For what you speak of, Erik, does it take "any bs" or something related to the job?
17:30.01 ``Erik I went back KNOWING that I'd learn nothing new, it was just a hoop jumping exercise...
17:30.12 ``Erik but I actually learned quite a bit after the first 2 yrs of newbie crap
17:30.13 Maloeran I could see myself studying something completely unrelated to programming
17:30.21 ``Erik the last 2 yrs were .. engaging
17:30.24 ``Erik eye opening :)
17:31.12 ``Erik uhmmm, in general, I think "any old bs" will do, but I THINK you'd be surprised at the holes in your knowlege if you did pursue a cs, math, or physics degree
17:31.39 Maloeran Oh yes, but that's the fun part :), I want to struggle filling these holes myself, with nothing but a sheet of paper and a pen
17:31.40 ``Erik I mean, english or music probably won't advance your mind TOO much in the field of interest
17:31.51 ``Erik heh
17:31.56 Maloeran A bs in music theory or french poetry could be nice
17:32.02 ``Erik you'll still struggle, and there'll be paper and pen...
17:32.16 ``Erik but you get the advantage of something saying "here is a hole"
17:32.27 ``Erik instead of going through life clumsily working around it because you dont' know it exists
17:33.02 ``Erik I d'no, I went into school all cocky and arrogant, I was humbled by dr shade. and I think I'm far better at what I do now because of it
17:33.45 ``Erik I want to do grad school, I just hope I can find a professor who can make me feel totally idiotic so I can grow even more :)
17:34.10 Maloeran :) Yes, that should be nice. I had... different experiences
17:34.36 ``Erik my highschool was a joke, and the first two years of college were laughable.
17:34.54 Maloeran The last day I went to college, I had proven my physic teacher wrong with the Hawking book I had at hand and was thrown out of the class ; never went again
17:34.55 ``Erik but there'll be a "wheat and chaff" course... mine was csc 324
17:35.18 ``Erik once you hit that point, you're either a cs person, someone struggling to get a grade, or a dropout.
17:35.40 Maloeran As I said, I could see myself studying something that interests me yet that I know little about
17:35.48 Maloeran Eheh
17:35.55 ``Erik I don't think being thrown out of class fofr disproving a teacher would be acceptable at any college around here
17:35.55 ``Erik :(
17:36.15 ``Erik I mean, I woulda gone to the dean and made my argument
17:36.32 ``Erik also; the dude made some good beer ;)
17:36.32 Maloeran I was fed up with school enough at that point not to bother
17:36.45 ``Erik I THINK he went to be the dean at chico
17:36.55 Maloeran Ahah, I see
17:37.14 ``Erik even as a hoop jumping exercise, though, it'll make your life a little easier
17:38.12 Maloeran A degree in music would be appealing to me, I think
17:38.13 ``Erik being a professional developer without a bs is like, uh... coding c... on windows... without knowing anything about the preprocessor...
17:38.15 ``Erik :)
17:38.28 ``Erik a buddy of mine in college was doing a dual major of cs and music
17:38.31 ``Erik *shrug*
17:38.43 ``Erik and the lower level cs courses, I tested out of
17:39.09 ``Erik I was able to prove that I knew what they wanted to teach me, and they removed teh requirement
17:39.39 Maloeran Eheh, nice
17:40.36 Maloeran I composed music younger, played violin for a decade and in an orchestra, a bs in music/poetry could be great
17:40.37 ``Erik *shrug* I think it's worth doing if you want to code for a living. there'll be a couple years of borign stupid shit. then you might learn something new *shrug* and at the end, life'll be that much easier
17:41.05 ``Erik getting someone else to pay for a coder to get a music degree could be tricky ;)
17:41.23 Maloeran Oh right, it's costly down there :)
17:41.35 ``Erik depends on what school
17:41.54 ``Erik I think I was paying ~$2000 a year? I dont' remember anymore
17:42.13 ``Erik most of it is covered if you're a "resident"
17:42.19 Maloeran Ah, not that bad, close to the fees in Canada then
17:42.29 ``Erik I woulda paid more than 3x if I wasn't a state resident
17:42.45 ``Erik (whcih means having lived in the state for at least 2 yrs or something)
17:43.01 ``Erik then most of it was paid through state taxes
17:43.29 ``Erik heh
17:43.35 ``Erik or how his predecessor would feel? :)
17:43.53 Maloeran :) Eheh
17:49.00 ``Erik <-- recently picked up on the observation that most coders are music o.O
17:49.21 ``Erik I think I jabbered about it at vis?
17:49.31 ``Erik musical
17:49.32 ``Erik even
17:49.52 Maloeran Not that I recall, you played an instrument or composed?
17:50.03 Maloeran Music is highly creative, I don't think programming is that much different
17:50.14 ``Erik guitar, trombone and keyboards... and I've written songs on the guitar
17:50.26 ``Erik justin plays keyboards... jason plays clarinet
17:50.49 Maloeran Neat
17:51.20 ``Erik and I was more into electric organ than piano, heh, difference in HOW you hit the keys
17:52.41 ``Erik <-- tends ot have a very soft touch when playing music... or typing *shurg* wants a responsive soft instrument
17:52.43 Maloeran I should have sticked with piano at school when the time came to choose our instrument that we would play for the next 7 years
17:53.15 ``Erik electric guitars playing "lazy/slurred" for the most part... well oiled trombone slide... low resistance keyboard or electric organ
17:53.54 brlcad http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web/Q_22031739.html
17:54.11 ``Erik keyboards I dig are the c64 inductance kbd, mitsumi precision 'bubble' kbd, and teh apple kbd's...
17:54.20 ``Erik can't STAND those ibm clicky monstrosities
17:54.22 brlcad pretty sure his wording just sucked .. I would gather he wants repeatable random numbers, i.e. ability to set the seed .. but pretty damn funny regardless ;)
17:54.53 ``Erik heh
17:55.40 ``Erik REAL repeatable random numbers are nontrivial... given that I can take the see from, say, a linux x86 box to say, an osX ppc box and get a totally different sequence
17:55.57 Maloeran I'm not so sure, brlcad, there are people that clueless ;). if( rand() < 0.5*RAND_MAX ) {} if( rand() > 0.5*RAND_MAX ) {}
17:55.58 ``Erik but on the same os/arch, srand() is good 'nuff
17:56.14 ``Erik hah
17:56.42 ``Erik hwer'ed ya see that?
17:56.56 Maloeran It was posted in #C some time ago, that code was actually found in a commercial environement
17:57.07 Maloeran It was supposed to pick one of the branches "randomly"
17:57.07 ``Erik I mean, if there's a 50% chance of A *AND* a 50% of B, then yeah, that might be right
17:57.16 ``Erik oh, if that was the intent, yeah, hah :)
17:57.31 ``Erik 'else' is hard.
17:58.03 ``Erik at least they did 0.5*RANDMAX instead of %2
17:58.19 Maloeran I simplified the code for it to fit on a line, it was actually a mess
17:58.23 ``Erik (most rng's have the most significant bits as the most random)
17:58.30 Maloeran Some broken conversion to float with comparison with 0.5
17:58.58 ``Erik rand() < 0.5*(float)rand()
17:59.00 ``Erik *shrug*
17:59.11 Maloeran I'm amazed by the amount of bad programmers, it's worth crying in #C sometimes
17:59.18 Maloeran Efnet's #C that is
17:59.37 ``Erik remember; half the people you meet are below average.
17:59.54 Maloeran Below the median, perhaps not below the average
18:00.12 ``Erik and the ones who are able to grok things will look things up and learn themselves some... so you hear from the dumb ones most
18:00.21 ``Erik just like politics and fcc 'decency' rap
18:00.22 Maloeran Right.
18:00.22 ``Erik crap
18:00.27 ``Erik ok
18:00.31 ``Erik median, not average, you're right
18:00.42 ``Erik but I was quoting
18:00.43 ``Erik :/
18:01.30 Maloeran :) Okay. I'm especially amazed by how people can struggle to understand pointers
18:01.35 ``Erik (because most people don't understand the difference between median and average)
18:01.51 ``Erik hehehe, I like pointers
18:03.24 Maloeran now*
18:03.38 Maloeran Putting high-school or not, that is the question
18:04.09 ``Erik hrm
18:04.14 ``Erik contact mark
18:04.21 ``Erik he'll talk to the lawyers or whatever for you
18:05.00 Maloeran Sure, they gave me that form to fill up. Ah well
18:07.14 ``Erik (the stigma of no bachelors...)
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22:48.46 brlcad Maloeran: freenode's #C isn't much different
22:49.48 brlcad there's even a resident troll that likes to badger the newbies
22:50.29 brlcad at least he was there a couple years ago, he wasn't even that well informed, but moreso than the others that would speak up so he often had the mic on the newbies
22:52.23 Maloeran Eheh, I see you have actively participated in such channels too
22:53.32 brlcad only mildly, usually through referral
22:54.31 brlcad someone would come into a different channel asking basic coding questions, and I'd refer them elsewhere.. only to have them return after being told rather unconstructively how stupid they were by elitist a**holes
22:55.04 brlcad so I periodically would wander over to put them in their place, tell them to either help or stfu
22:55.12 Maloeran Yes, that's the kind of situation that "forces" me to provide some actual help
22:55.52 ``Erik heh
22:55.58 Maloeran I apparently have been doing that long enough to get op in #opengl, #c and #asm ; probably not a good sign
22:55.59 ``Erik I'm happy to provide C advice
22:56.06 brlcad what's a pointer?
22:56.08 ``Erik but I mostly focused on specialized channels... like #opengl
22:56.22 ``Erik to avoid the straight up newbs
22:56.35 brlcad lots of straight up newbs hit bz
22:56.52 ``Erik I've been ignoring #opengl for the most part lately :/
22:56.58 brlcad so I refer them if it's not a trivial question or they are just missing too much foundation
22:57.23 Maloeran #opengl has been decaying since all the regulars fled to #siggraph because our debates were "off topic"
22:57.28 brlcad though I do tutor a couple specific individuals that showed great interest, talent, and progress
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22:59.13 ``Erik heh
23:05.18 ``Erik O:-)
23:06.55 ``Erik which is almost the point of stopping and doing something actually useful *cough*
23:09.50 Twingy sean, those papers are signed
23:10.37 Maloeran Eheh, lacking motivation Erik? I myself wish I still had the motivation I had at 12-16 years old, it weakened a bit
23:10.48 ``Erik heh
23:10.55 ``Erik I wish i still had the motivation I had at 26.
23:10.57 ``Erik :(
23:12.03 Twingy what's with you guys :)
23:12.08 brlcad Twingy: cool
23:12.28 brlcad shame couldn't get public release on them, but meh, it's something
23:13.02 brlcad Maloeran: heh, if you're talking like that already.. then you really only have downhill to go :)
23:13.07 Twingy I was tempted to pick up the papers and flip through them like a 19th century picture movie
23:13.39 Maloeran Aw brlcad :). Seriously, it was not healthy. I was forgetting to eat, to sleep and go to school just to code
23:13.55 Twingy the key to motivation is diversity
23:14.21 Twingy for me anyway
23:14.23 ``Erik diversity only takes ya so far in my experience :/
23:14.41 Twingy depends on what your goals in life are
23:15.07 Twingy to become an expert in a field, to become well known, to become utilitarian...
23:15.33 Maloeran I still enjoy solving problems just as much. The issue, I think, is that the problems have grown complex and that the solutions take a long while to code up properly
23:15.49 Twingy mmm booty
23:15.53 ``Erik hhahaha
23:16.14 ``Erik dsl's are the art of turning complex problems into simple problems.
23:16.46 Maloeran The problems I was solving at 12-16 years old took very little time to code once solved. The current raytracing problems? Gah!! :)
23:17.47 Maloeran Erik, what do you mean by dsl there?
23:17.56 Twingy damn small linux of course
23:17.57 ``Erik domain specific language
23:18.06 Maloeran Ah, right
23:18.46 ``Erik deep dependancy chains, hard deadlines, and the "probably good enough" minimal ordering
23:20.38 Twingy I am displeased with how brakes are engineered for most bikes
23:20.51 ``Erik what, the rim calipers?
23:20.56 Twingy yea
23:21.02 Twingy all they're missing is two springs
23:21.06 Twingy two springs!!!
23:21.08 ``Erik well
23:21.10 Twingy and they'd be 10x better
23:21.11 ``Erik do it better
23:21.13 brlcad you want hydraulic brakes on your bike?
23:21.15 ``Erik and apply for a patent
23:21.21 ``Erik and get fucktarded rich
23:21.22 Twingy no, I'm going to do that this weekend
23:21.23 ``Erik o.O
23:21.25 Twingy it'll take 2 minutes
23:21.31 Twingy I have my old mountain bike back
23:21.41 Twingy the one I used to ride to work at Skyhigh the ISP on in high school
23:21.56 brlcad ooh, Hero tonight
23:22.34 brlcad or heros or whatever it's called
23:22.38 brlcad good stuff
23:22.41 Twingy hiros?
23:22.45 Twingy food network?
23:22.47 Twingy :)
23:22.47 brlcad hiro nakamura
23:22.55 Twingy hirosushima?
23:23.02 ``Erik heh
23:23.03 brlcad mm.. sushi
23:23.24 ``Erik neko ga tabemasuka?
23:23.28 Twingy naggasagonnaworkherenomore
23:23.35 brlcad heh
23:23.59 brlcad the korean shop has some
23:24.17 ``Erik heh
23:24.23 ``Erik I might stop there on my drive tomorrie
23:24.29 ``Erik you're talking about the one in beards hill, right?
23:24.37 brlcad next to kleins
23:25.37 ``Erik <-- forgets which big grocery store is in beards hill? knows there's a pizza shop, radiocrap, pet store, lees hunan, home despot, ...
23:25.46 ``Erik :)
23:25.51 Twingy I bet that pet stores has some of my mice still
23:26.01 ``Erik "he knows just how I like my martini... full of alcohol"
23:26.23 ``Erik but I did just buy a hugeassed bag of rice :D
23:26.28 ``Erik ginormous
23:26.42 Twingy making saki?
23:26.46 Twingy sake
23:26.46 ``Erik heh, no
23:27.06 ``Erik bought me up a rice maker
23:27.41 Twingy riceroni
23:27.56 Twingy if you bought a rice maker
23:27.59 Twingy why buy rice?
23:28.04 Twingy ooh that reminds me
23:28.09 Twingy I need to pick up cans tomorrow
23:28.11 ``Erik heh
23:28.24 Twingy I can make one out of aluminum
23:29.29 Twingy soon I will have enough to begin rocket motor
23:29.46 Twingy the diet pepsi motor
23:30.06 ``Erik out of aluminum?
23:30.20 ``Erik won't the throat temperature be... destructive?
23:30.29 ``Erik what's the term that dude used, ummm
23:30.49 ``Erik spontanious rapid disassembly?
23:31.05 Twingy not unless your wok is running at 1250F
23:31.14 Twingy most woks are at like 500 no?
23:31.27 ``Erik <-- meant for a rocket motor
23:31.36 Twingy ah, for a naive one sure
23:31.42 ``Erik which, from the courses I've been to, like in the neighborhood of 2000f
23:31.44 ``Erik *shrug*
23:32.08 Twingy depends on how you configure it
23:32.12 Twingy and what propellants
23:32.26 Twingy and whether you got heat fins on it
23:32.58 ``Erik yeah *shrug* confuration they're talking is 'how much thrust can I get out of one shot of this thing"
23:33.22 ``Erik <-- cooks himslef up some green beans
23:34.53 ``Erik seriously, you're in teh same directorate as a guru in the subject
23:38.55 Twingy there's probly a bunch of guru's here on the subject
23:39.04 Twingy not going to get involved with them though
23:39.15 Twingy that way I can't claim any affiliation
23:39.24 ``Erik aight *shrug*
23:39.26 Twingy or implementation of propietary knowledge
23:39.49 ``Erik there's one I've talked to a couple times who is supposedly *THE* guy, but I'll shut up on it :)
23:40.22 Twingy I don't see how his background would help me on such small primitive motors which I have a firm grasp on
23:40.36 Twingy he'd be the guy to talk to if I was building an Atlas IV maybe
23:41.07 ``Erik actually, 4" liquid motors... and they're disturbingly similar to my showerhead thingy, which woulda failed if I understand correctly
23:41.08 ``Erik :)
23:41.48 Twingy still think you should have tried it
23:42.32 ``Erik if I understand correctly, the biggest problem would've been how I attached the input nozzles int he upper chamber, those'll blow out
23:42.48 ``Erik otherwise, the throat wasn't small enough, the choke would've bene subsonic
23:42.52 ``Erik or it'd go through fuel like mad
23:42.53 ``Erik heh
23:43.57 ``Erik oh, and how I attached teh injectors, heh, has been patented. :(
23:47.06 Twingy everything has been patented so what?
23:47.26 ``Erik heh, yeah. modern patents have killed innovation.
23:47.27 ``Erik :(
23:47.52 Twingy nah
23:48.08 Twingy you can still innovate on your own, no gastapo gonna come after you unless you make $$$
23:50.34 Maloeran That didn't work for the open source developpers in the states who were sued for such infringement
23:52.43 Twingy that's why you go anonymous and host offshore :)
23:52.55 Twingy *spoken like a loyal federal employee*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061128

00:53.39 Twingy yay, phone battery arrived
00:53.43 Twingy phone_life += 2
00:54.11 ``Erik +=, not *= ?
00:54.13 brlcad twingy wears a +2 ring of regeneration you say?
00:56.46 Twingy in this case += == *=
00:57.37 ``Erik heh
01:09.35 ``Erik heh
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02:38.58 Maloeran That immigration visa questionaire is amusing, with questions asking for example if I have ordered or organized genocide, or practiced polygamy
02:39.21 Maloeran Or if I was part of the Nazi german government between 1933 and 1945, nice one!
02:39.32 ``Erik well, bear in mind
02:39.37 ``Erik if you aren't moving to utah
02:39.54 ``Erik than polygamy is worse than genocide
02:40.06 ``Erik and premarital sex is absolutely horrible
02:40.36 Maloeran Eheh, absolutely
02:40.47 Maloeran Another nice one : "Have you ever, in or outside of the U.S. knowingly committed a crime for which you have not been arrested ?"
02:41.12 Maloeran I would be curious to know what percentage of people really answers Yes to that one
02:50.22 Twingy none that I'm willing to admit :)
03:05.39 ``Erik download of whats?
03:05.43 ``Erik O:-)
03:09.26 Twingy uh oh, bad internet connection or feds are after me
03:12.43 ``Erik hah
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14:51.39 Maloeran Masters of automake, Erik or brlcad, what do you recommend for a way to compile and link in a .s file if and only if on ia32?
14:51.55 Maloeran I need a assembly hack to align the stack of threads on 16 bytes
15:59.26 Maloeran Ah nevermind, I'll just do the thing in inline assembly
16:14.46 brlcad add an AM_CONDITIONAL into configure.ac that defines some symbol true when on ia32, you then use that in your Makefile.am to add the source
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21:44.51 brlcad hmm.. i reckon you're probably not even still around
21:49.43 ``Erik hrm? what, the, uh, thingie I just sent an email for?
21:49.47 ``Erik I'm just doing fbsd
21:49.56 brlcad got a sourceball somewhere?
21:50.19 ``Erik yeah, in the fbsd ports distfiles dir on the fileserver
21:50.29 ``Erik or /usr/ports/distfiles/ on any fbsd box
21:51.29 brlcad heh, thx (cept not on ???1) ;)
21:51.38 brlcad no matter, they have svn..
21:51.59 ``Erik huh? yeah, uh
21:52.00 ``Erik erm
21:52.03 ``Erik it should be on 1
21:52.18 ``Erik the name
21:52.19 ``Erik um
21:52.22 brlcad ah, yeah
21:52.23 brlcad i see it
21:52.27 ``Erik s/[^-]*-//
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061129

02:53.26 Twingy back!
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12:48.41 ``Erik http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-364754440098164470
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061130

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17:36.49 Maloeran Hum! If anyone is also a gamer and desires a PS3 : http://ps3.shimpinomori.net/index_en.html
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20:29.20 brlcad heh
20:44.16 ``Erik toast burner o.O
20:45.41 brlcad and proud of it
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21:07.50 lg_ hi
21:08.30 lg_ anyone online?
21:09.42 docelic take a guess.
21:09.59 ``Erik no, we're all off-line, which is why this channel has no users in it
21:10.04 ``Erik :)
21:10.22 lg_ ;-) great, i also have no time and should sleep now
21:10.39 lg_ actually i wanted to ask for a favour...
21:13.02 lg_ i have asked for some info on the new cpp-interfaces available for brlcad, which should be in rather active development right now. there is a project forming to create a kde-based parametric cad app, and as the focus should be on useability, and the underlying engine could be an external one, the idea was to build up on brlcad
21:15.14 Maloeran If there was anything after "build up on brlcad", the irc length limit cuts it
21:15.50 lg_ no, there should have been a point maybe ;-)
21:16.58 lg_ the project name is kreative3d, and there had been some discussion on the topic among interested people, but i could not get any insight into how to interface brlcad as an engine for a cad application written in c++
21:18.51 Maloeran The person holding the 'brlcad' nickname could guide you on this, any idea what piece of BRL-CAD you are interested in? It's one huge beast
21:21.15 lg_ actually, i thought it should be possible to write a database layer on top of the geometric objects, making it extendeable to app-specific objects such as walls, stairs, which would be generators for brlcad-databases
21:22.00 lg_ but there is a point where feedback is required, i must be able to load a scene, perform csg, view it in a buffer that must be managed by the cpp-app
21:23.02 lg_ if i catch user activity in this frame, e.g. clicking on a pixel, i have to be able to call brlcad routines to trace to get the object, e.g. to edit it
21:23.44 Maloeran *nods* brlcad is the guy to help there, feel free to idle around until he wakes up
21:24.17 lg_ i see, it is hard with time zones ;-)
21:24.44 lg_ (sitting in istanbul, turkey, where it is 23.25 now ;-)
21:25.02 Maloeran Metaphorically speaking :), he's in the united states, 16h25 there
21:25.49 lg_ i know ;-)
21:42.04 brlcad hello lg_
21:42.29 lg_ hi!
21:42.43 lg_ so you woke up, as others predicted ;-)
21:42.55 brlcad catching my breath
21:43.42 lg_ by the way, my name is lars an i never get used to these irc-nicks
21:44.01 brlcad lg_: so just reading through what you just wrote, there's a couple considerations
21:44.07 brlcad did we talk a couple weeks ago?
21:44.18 brlcad or was that someone else?
21:44.23 lg_ yes, but that time there was no kreative3d-group
21:44.28 brlcad okay
21:44.59 lg_ (which was not invented by me, but i try to find out if i can suggest them to work on brlcad)
21:45.37 brlcad it sounds like a good idea, and will overall save years of effort really if utilized appropriately
21:45.53 brlcad but that isn't to say that it's a trivial task, and there's work that would need to be done to support it
21:46.53 lg_ yes, i wasn't expecting anything else. but i guess inventing a new csg would be harder, so IF it is possiblen, than by adopting to an existing engine
21:46.59 brlcad brl-cad is used as a geometry engine, that's one of it's primary purposes -- creating a robust C++ wrapper over that engine is a task in itself, nothing too complicated really but something that's only partiallly completed as is
21:47.55 brlcad there is a prototype start of some effort, I think I mentioned that last time -- and I've actually blocked off some time tomorrow to work on reviewing what we currently have and putting it into revision control somewhere so folks can access it
21:48.31 lg_ that would be great, as people could estimate what it needed to connect to this effort
21:48.34 brlcad the bigger issue that I'm sure will impact you will be .. getting an explicit representation of the geometry, i.e. getting triangles out so you can stuff it over to opengl
21:49.24 brlcad that layer of brl-cad, converting from the preferred mathematical implicit geometry to an explicit form, needs work to be more robust frankly at least for "real models"
21:49.40 lg_ yes, i wonder if this should be done in a pure unix-way by using conversion from the .g-database to meshes
21:49.57 brlcad but the other side, e.g. picking and selecting objects along a ray, is rather trivial stuff -- ray-tracing is brl-cad's bread and butter
21:49.59 lg_ maybe with some caching, it could be possible to create an atomic cad like this?
21:50.59 lg_ yes, i think the point about tracing back and querying object information is only a question how clean it could be integrated into cpp, so the wrappers
21:51.07 brlcad our existing converters work in a 'unix-way" g-
21:51.38 brlcad but that's not the issue, the issue is an algorithmic one .. going from implicit to explicit
21:52.15 lg_ yes... do you think it is possible to build graphic output on something like the other mesh converters (g2obj e.g.)?
21:52.33 brlcad there is an interface that exists now for doing that conversion, wheter it be by a tool-based approach, or directly calling the same routines that the converters use
21:53.00 lg_ ok, that sounds interesting for the task
21:53.02 brlcad you mean directly connecting the converter as part of the display process in the app?
21:53.11 lg_ yes ;-)
21:53.14 brlcad ah
21:53.17 brlcad no
21:53.17 brlcad :)
21:53.22 brlcad that would probably be bad :)
21:53.42 brlcad conversions take a long time and are generally rather error-prone processes
21:53.56 brlcad unless you have pristine geometry, which is rather rare
21:54.25 brlcad there are means to fix that.. it "could" be made more interactive
21:54.29 lg_ i know, i actually thought about that by the means if caching, doing this step only for modified or added objects
21:55.02 brlcad but that would require (re)implementing a mesh library for brl-cad geometry (which would be a great task)
21:55.19 brlcad ahh, that is possible, and something we've considered on occassion
21:55.46 lg_ i would like to avoid building a fat app
21:55.49 brlcad it would be doable in that situation, though you're architecting a hack around a suboptimal situation
21:56.05 brlcad it's only a little more work to "fix it" so that it works interactively
21:56.57 brlcad apologies on the delay responding.. rather overloaded with tasks at the moment and support e-mails have been piling up
21:57.03 lg_ what do you mean by mesh library - putting the conversion code into a lib?
21:57.11 brlcad sure
21:57.16 lg_ ;-) no problem, i am asking for help
21:58.58 brlcad all the mesh library would really entail is taking the in-memory brl-cad form, and generating the polygons from the data
21:59.21 brlcad it's trivial to get polygons for each primitive, and brl-cad supports that rather easily .. the work is in performing the CSG boolean evaluations
21:59.42 lg_ hm, so the big task would be to divide the meshing and conversion, and than write an app that loads the mesh - than we could just call rt to query objects and set up on a cpp wrapper for modifying the database.
22:00.22 lg_ sounds more like a problem with code structure in brlcad for this use than too much algorithm stuff?
22:00.24 brlcad you can either perform that directly on the implicits (via ray-tracing), on triangles to triangles (which an implementation of exists in brl-cad), or on splines to triangles (which doesn't exist functionally yet)
22:00.42 brlcad if you can do the meshing, you've got a conversion
22:00.47 brlcad they're the same problem
22:01.13 brlcad if you have a mesh or if you don't, brl-cad can still query the geometry fast enough for picking/info purposes
22:02.08 lg_ yes, but as i understand the meshing code exists and is functional, e.g. in g2obj, just had to be cleanly seperated into libs?
22:03.26 brlcad lg_: the problem is with the overall design purpose and approach.. brl-cad's library was written to be numerically sound and robust to represent/evaluate first (which is where implicit geometry comes to play), not for pretty opengl display (which requires explicit geometry)
22:04.00 brlcad that said, we have a mutual need -- everyone wants pretty opengl displays these days ;)
22:04.33 lg_ ;-) what is about the opengl dm, how much useable is the code used there?
22:04.50 brlcad the meshing code exists in several forms and is functional .. but could certainly be improved, and in well defined ways
22:05.41 brlcad the opengl dm in brl-cad isn't really relevant/useful to this purpose
22:07.05 lg_ i see. maybe it would be worth to test the concept by writing a dummy app?
22:07.30 lg_ than people could laugh about it or build something serious on the idea
22:08.09 brlcad basically what I'd suggest is to consider what exactly it is that you're wanting from the engine -- if you're actually writing a "CAD" system, there are fundamental design considerations that should be taken into account
22:08.52 brlcad in that regard, brl-cad will certainly be a given to use, solid modeling is not something any new project is going to be able to jump into without many years of invested effort
22:10.10 brlcad which is basically saying that there is a lot provided in brl-cad that you'd be getting for free, even though more work is likely going to be required to get wherre you want
22:10.20 brlcad namely work on the c++ interface and the meshing interface
22:11.04 brlcad collaboration there would certainly be a very good thing -- it's also something on our task plate (both of them) over the next upcoming year for the project
22:11.37 lg_ yes, that is what i got. i think getting a view of what exists now will be great, and than people can consider what they can and want to do.
22:12.39 brlcad I just recently put together a presentation that I can send to you that describes brl-cad in a nutshell
22:13.02 brlcad it's rather high-level, so I'
22:13.07 lg_ the point is that the folks behind the project i mentioned are mainly from gui. and that is a big part of what is missing to make brlcad useable for some applications. if you send me the description, it might motivate folks to jump on the project
22:13.27 brlcad so I'm not sure how interesting it'll be to you, but it might at least give you an idea where things are and where they may be going
22:14.01 lg_ i think especially to see where development takes place is very valuable now
22:14.20 brlcad yeah, I completely agree with respect to brl-cad's gui.. that's our own #1 issue being worked on actually, and the reason for the new solid modeler under development (that I suppose would technically be a competitor to kreative3d) ;)
22:14.37 brlcad btw, doesn't creative labs have a tool called kreative3d??
22:15.10 lg_ i don't hope so, but it is worth to look for.
22:15.59 brlcad i vaguely recall some product .. it was either the sound card folks or maybe.. maybe bryce or something
22:16.15 lg_ but i think that the difference of the modelers as i think it is that i would like to see it not so much as a pure geometry modeler, which might be your goal, right?
22:16.43 lg_ (when the project starts to produce things, the name has to be checked!)
22:17.00 brlcad maybe just confusing product names.. rather generic terms with a K sound :)
22:17.23 lg_ yes, it is not that new, that idea
22:17.41 brlcad not sure what you mean by a pure geometry modeler
22:18.20 brlcad as for whether our scope is limited to a solid geometry modeler, then initially yes
22:18.50 brlcad though the demand is so large for drafting, that it's also on the development plan but hopefully from contributors that get interested
22:18.51 lg_ i think you want to create geometry. i am thinking about a layer, where the user actually creates a wall, and that wall object is translated into (brlcad) csg instructions
22:19.26 lg_ so maybe not all of brlcads features is used
22:19.39 brlcad undoubtedly
22:19.46 brlcad brl-cad does more than csg too ;)
22:20.16 brlcad (geometry representation-wise)
22:20.33 lg_ i thought about a modeler doing something as the generator tools brlcad includes
22:21.02 brlcad huh? parse error on that sentance :)
22:21.31 brlcad "generator tools brlcad includes"
22:22.21 lg_ i would actually save the wall objects as a scripts generating brlcad geometry (there is a wall generator in brlcad e.g., which simply outputs a .g database)
22:22.23 brlcad ooh, maybe s/as the/with/
22:22.37 brlcad gotcha
22:22.58 brlcad that's procedural geometry
22:23.43 lg_ yes. but the generator would have to be able to e.g. provide an opening when a window object requests it
22:24.55 brlcad sure, that's just a term for geometry that is created procedurally and generally automatically according to some defined interface process
22:25.13 brlcad you could have a procedural geometry generator for just about anything
22:26.47 lg_ and i would do it in a way that the wall object not only creates geometry, but would have a set of procedures defined to e.g. cut holes. than this object would create the brlcad calls
22:29.45 brlcad so, I'll see if I can get through the c++ interface review tomorrow, and hopefully more progress on it over the weekend so it can be put into svn
22:30.03 brlcad did you want that high-level overview?
22:30.44 lg_ yes, would be great
22:31.21 brlcad okay, I should have that out to you tomorrow at the latest
22:31.43 lg_ (i do not want you to hurry that much, if it is in the next days, it would be great!)
22:32.12 lg_ should i give you my mail?
22:32.21 brlcad not any trouble, I've been working on it over the past couple days, just have to take out a few things that aren't yet releasable
22:36.54 lg_ as i already mentioned, i am a victim of time zones, it is past midnight here. so i would really like to thank you for tonight and switch to sleep mode ;-)
22:38.57 lg_ i will be on the net on week-end
22:41.11 lg_ good night (i know most of you have some more hours of daylight before ;-)
22:43.35 lg_ |-)
22:43.45 *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.21.197)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061201

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13:40.02 Maloeran Erik, there's a pass of the model prep I have no idea how to efficiently parallelize, your input could be nice if you got some time today
13:43.27 Maloeran Briefly. unlike other passes, I can't just "lock" a finite volume of space as I can't easily know in advance how far it will search through the neighbourhood ; the processing required to safely parallelize doubles the amount of work of the pass
14:37.28 ``Erik O.o
14:54.45 Maloeran Any thoughts? Tell me if you would like to know details, or me to shut up and solve that myself :)
15:00.45 ``Erik what exactly is the pass?
15:01.11 ``Erik there's not enough info there to say anything...
15:01.31 ``Erik (this can be done via dcc or phone if you don't wanna say in 'public')
15:01.55 ``Erik or I suppose you could describe the problem in a file in the cvs repo
15:03.30 ``Erik hum
15:04.51 Maloeran Eh thanks, will privmsg here do?
15:05.13 ``Erik <-- trying to get his thingie ok with privmsg... freenode suck
15:05.14 ``Erik s
15:05.50 ``Erik bah
15:05.57 Maloeran Efnet then
15:06.03 ``Erik yeah, much better
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17:49.38 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: details on building under Windows
18:20.56 Maloeran Commited, ``Erik
18:21.22 Maloeran Feel free to report how much it dead-locks, segfaults or bursts in flames :)
18:23.07 Maloeran Otherwise, some figure on how much it scales with the number of processors would be nice. There's a #define for that in rfdemo.c
18:24.02 ``Erik heh
18:24.36 ``Erik I just ran the truck on a 4 core 2.0 ghz amd64 running fbsd62 and an 8 core 1.8ghz amd64 running linux26
18:24.41 ``Erik they get about the same speed...
18:24.43 ``Erik lemme update
18:27.29 ``Erik now I get seggies
18:27.44 ``Erik the fbsd one first whined about RF/job.c 101, then the next time went sig11
18:27.51 ``Erik the linux one went sig11 after drawing a frame or 2
18:28.11 Maloeran Ahah, okaayy
18:29.17 Maloeran Line 101 is a failed sanity check, I'll look into that. Thanks
18:29.53 ``Erik on linux
18:29.54 ``Erik #0 linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95c1cbc0, listhead1=0x2a959740b0, step0=0x2a95c1cb88, step1=0x2a95974080, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:717
18:29.54 ``Erik 717 if( ( linklist1->used == LINKS_PER_LIST ) ) {
18:30.10 ``Erik (gdb) bt
18:30.10 ``Erik #0 linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95c1cbc0, listhead1=0x2a959740b0, step0=0x2a95c1cb88, step1=0x2a95974080, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:717
18:30.10 ``Erik #1 0x0000002a9585bcef in jobModelPrepStep (engine=0x50aa20, job=Variable "job" is not available.
18:30.10 ``Erik ) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:1721
18:30.10 ``Erik #2 0x0000002a95852f03 in jobThreadWork (thread=0x50ac28) at ../../../RF/job.c:188
18:30.47 Maloeran Thanks.
18:31.15 ``Erik fbsd is consistantly giving the job.c 101 error now
18:31.33 Maloeran If you could output a graph cache with a single thread, you could at least test the raytracing itself
18:34.35 ``Erik rebuilding...
18:36.27 ``Erik got caches... rebuilding to be threaded...
18:37.23 Maloeran Forcing thread count to 1 now gives you a "worker" thread and the main user thread
18:37.39 Maloeran Before today, function calls would block until the job was done
18:37.47 ``Erik now both machines now give the RF/jobs.c 101 error
18:38.01 Maloeran Okay, seems I really got something to fix there
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18:38.45 ``Erik could be that you're looking for a job to execute before one is put in the queue
18:39.19 Maloeran Yes, it detects an empty task in the queue... but I'm always adding jobs to the task before queuing the task, within a mutex
18:39.32 Maloeran So I don't quite see what's going on there yet
18:40.01 clock_ I tried to make some instruction videos with mged and vnc2swf but mged doesn't run inside vnc
18:45.56 ``Erik I'm not so sure you do, mal... I see context calls jobSystemInit(), which inits the queue and throws threads... and the threads immediately lock and try to grab a job
18:46.16 Maloeran That's fine
18:46.35 ``Erik but there's no chance to put anything in the queue and the lock is not held by the originator
18:46.45 Maloeran The line 101 is : We found a queued task not yet initiated, but it has no job in it
18:47.38 ``Erik so something needs to lock the queue before the threads are thrown... and hold it until a completed task is put into the queue...
18:47.46 ``Erik completed as in fully defined
18:47.56 ``Erik no?
18:48.11 Maloeran Threads are launched, they look for work, don't find any, then wait for signals
18:48.45 Maloeran jobTrace locks mutex, allocates a job, puts it into task, queue task ( which sends signal ), unlock mutex
18:49.24 Maloeran The threads find the queued task just fine, but they don't find any job in it, which is... curious
18:51.09 ``Erik hm, *shrug*
18:58.35 ``Erik right after the lock?
18:58.37 ``Erik (can't pm here)
18:58.47 ``Erik :373 ?
18:59.26 Maloeran Fine, or in the mutex
18:59.42 archivist just register your nick to pm
19:00.16 archivist <PROTECTED>
19:01.08 ``Erik archivist: I registered it a long long time ago, forgot the password, talked to an ircop, they said they would delete it in the next hour, the next day it wasn't deleted, tried talking to teh ircop again, they said it was gone, but every time I tried to register, it said it was already registered...
19:01.25 ``Erik still job.c +101
19:05.35 archivist hehe screwed nickserv Last Seen: 1 year 7 weeks 6 days (20h 1m 30s) ag
19:05.54 archivist your not here !!!!
19:06.18 ``Erik :)
19:07.14 Maloeran So the job is detected by the thread adding the task, but not by the other thread reading the task
19:07.50 archivist you could attempt to drop the nick
19:08.07 ``Erik archivist: tried it a while back... via an ircop... :)
19:08.43 archivist I was wondering if nickserv sees you do it it may work
19:09.12 ``Erik sees me do what?
19:10.44 archivist needs the password though, /msg nickserv DROP <nickname> <password>
19:11.11 ``Erik yeah, ... I tried to get the oper to drop it cuz I forgot the password
19:11.17 Maloeran I would have thought nicknames are dropped eventually
19:11.19 ``Erik they couldn't reset the passwd or anything
19:11.26 Maloeran I mean, it should be obvious after an year
19:11.46 ``Erik the oper said they were, but was gonna drop it 'early' for me... never did, though *shrug* freenode just sucks ;>
19:18.21 Maloeran If I had access to a crashing box, I would print the pointer of the tasks queued, and the pointer of the "empty" task
19:18.52 Maloeran Okay. More than the Shark profiler, I need multi-processor without shared caches
19:24.05 ``Erik heehhe, the list of shit you need keeps growin', dude :D
19:24.13 ``Erik portable quality sw can be a bitch to write
19:24.59 Maloeran I really hate hunting for bugs without being able to reproduce the bugs myself
19:25.41 Maloeran This one is incomprehensible in its apparent simplicity
19:26.28 Maloeran Do you think you could give me a couple minutes to insert some printf()s? I fail to understand
19:28.07 ``Erik sure, tell me what file/line and what to print
19:28.21 ``Erik or if you want, make a branch in cvs, make the changes, I'll update against it, run it, and let you know the results
19:40.05 ``Erik efnet...
19:42.43 Maloeran Thanks, though it doesn't print the pointer of the funky broken task before FAIL()'ing
19:43.36 ``Erik erm, it doesn't?
19:44.18 Maloeran Doesn't seem so at least, lack of fflush perhaps?
19:44.27 ``Erik here comes another
19:44.41 ``Erik okie, I'll fflush both prints
19:45.30 Maloeran Wait, I'll just send you a job.c
19:50.44 Maloeran I think I may have a clue what's going on, finally
19:52.15 Maloeran Thanks Erik
19:52.18 ``Erik np
19:53.18 Maloeran Did you get crashes in the prep or during tracing earlier?
19:53.27 Maloeran When you tried before generating a cache
19:54.03 Maloeran Ah, during the prep too. Okay
19:57.54 Maloeran Cool, that's some neat thread race condition. I don't explain the prep crash yet though
19:58.17 ``Erik crashed during prep, ran it single threaded to generate the caches, now it crashes during the trace (it actually flashes a pic of the trck up before crashing)
19:59.37 Maloeran I don't explain the prep crash yet, but that's a complex beast with many passes, I'm less worried about being able to miss something there
20:06.34 brlcad ``Erik: tried to just identify with no password?
20:07.01 ``Erik -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password Incorrect
20:10.01 brlcad hmm
20:17.28 brlcad happen to know who you talked to?
20:17.40 brlcad maybe got some newb
20:36.11 ``Erik don't remember, was heh almost a year ago
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21:50.23 b0ef what toolkit was chosen for the new modeler?
22:08.19 ``Erik sync
22:08.19 ``Erik ls
22:08.21 ``Erik woops
22:42.05 brlcad b0ef: it's not decided yet
22:42.39 brlcad at least not 100% though there are very strong notions once a full consideration matrix was put together to consider the features of the various options available
22:43.28 brlcad still, there is plenty of work to do on the foundation API layers and geometry management before that decision has to be made -- though if others were involved, that could easily change
22:44.12 brlcad there are some options that will flat out not be considered due to the nature of the project and purpose/vision/approach of the new modeler
22:45.19 brlcad and I merely assume you're not talking about archer, as that's mostly unrelated to the long term interface goals
22:47.35 brlcad ``Erik: got a staffer willing to fix the nickserv account problem, at least when he wanders back
22:47.52 brlcad RichiH is da man
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23:21.02 brlcad ``Erik: so do you want the password reset or the registration deleted, he's willing to do either -- just need to call it
23:21.21 brlcad says he sent you some e-mail(s)
23:21.38 Maloeran Registration deletion should do, no one else can register the nickname as long as he holds it
23:23.59 brlcad done
23:26.16 ``Erik hum?
23:26.25 ``Erik what's going on?
23:26.32 brlcad wake up
23:26.39 Maloeran Feel free to register your nickname, Erik
23:26.43 brlcad take you hand off the bottle and register
23:26.48 ``Erik heh, no bottle
23:26.52 ``Erik just got home and started dinner
23:27.13 ``Erik hum
23:27.30 ``Erik is there any way to change a password?
23:27.49 brlcad there is, but had a staffer delete your account (blame Maloeran for calling it) so it's gone
23:27.57 Maloeran /msg nickserv help
23:28.11 ``Erik aaaaalllrighty then
23:28.12 ``Erik heh
23:28.17 ``Erik did a drop and register
23:28.35 brlcad heh
23:29.02 brlcad and quick to change your password before saying that I see :)
23:29.11 ``Erik of course
23:29.13 Maloeran Eheh
23:29.16 ``Erik I'm not a 'tard
23:29.37 ``Erik buy me some tequila and I'll get like that soon 'nuff ;)
23:29.46 brlcad usually takes about a dozens ghostings before they "get it"
23:29.51 brlcad and sometimes they don't
23:30.28 Maloeran Bah. I'm going to need your help again for that prep bug, Erik, I couldn't manage to trigger it once for the last hour
23:30.50 Maloeran I guess it will wait Monday
23:31.37 brlcad Maloeran: i've been meaning to mention some "user experience" feedback I had with rfdemo while preparing for the presentation a week ago
23:31.59 Maloeran Go ahead, the demo sure is crude
23:32.09 ``Erik "man, that's one ugly assed truck"
23:32.24 brlcad mostly it has to do with the conversion and prep phase, almost undoubtedly degenerate geometry issues
23:32.43 Maloeran The CSG->Triangles leave small and big gaps everywhere, the raytracer isn't always to blame there
23:32.50 brlcad i had a bunch of various models that I converted from g to ase cleanly
23:33.22 brlcad and must have gotten lucky with the first model as it went through perfectly, about 200k tris
23:34.13 brlcad but all four of the next ones I tried all failed horribly, as they'd prep spewing lots of output and then basically showing what looked like a polygon soup
23:34.26 Maloeran The ASE converter was written specifically to convert the the rotter-lowe and cathedral models, I won't pretend it's perfectly compliant with the specs
23:34.28 ``Erik mmm, curley brackets
23:35.16 brlcad it might have been the ase phase, but it seemed more like degenerate handling code in the reader that was throwing away a lot of triangles
23:35.17 Maloeran Right. I think the ASE converter is presently ignoring matrices, because some other ASE exporters would provide matrices... while already transfering the vertices
23:35.54 Maloeran It should only throw away triangles with colinear points, triangles that rays can't intersect
23:36.18 Maloeran ( My internal triangle representation can not handle triangles of colinear points )
23:36.30 brlcad also, rfdemo's mouse input didn't work nor did most of the key input except the cursor controls and maybe one or two others (e.g. esc didn't work nor did the reset key, etc)
23:36.45 Maloeran There's no mouse input, escape should work
23:37.29 Maloeran already transforming* the vertices
23:37.34 brlcad i glanced through the code just to try and see what the bindings even were since I couldn't get anything other than the cursor keys to do anything
23:37.56 ``Erik brlcad expects way too much of the thing
23:38.02 ``Erik there's a "case 27:" for escaping
23:38.03 brlcad pretty much only those four keys worked
23:38.09 brlcad nah, I expected very little
23:38.10 ``Erik and a few others
23:38.14 ``Erik like space, ummm
23:38.23 Maloeran Arrow keys, page up/down to zoom in/out/, escape
23:38.34 ``Erik space to stop rotation
23:38.37 brlcad that's what I mean.. ONLY the arrow keys worked
23:38.53 brlcad i hit the others testing once I found the bindings in the code
23:39.00 ``Erik odd
23:39.06 brlcad so there's maybe some issue there
23:39.26 ``Erik worked for me on my g5 and remote X to a fbsd opteron
23:39.30 Maloeran I really haven't focused too much on fancy demos... All I wanted was to make sure things were working smoothly so far
23:39.49 Maloeran SDL key bindings should work pretty much everywhere, normally
23:39.50 brlcad added a print statement, it was definitely getting the event .. just not doing what it was supposed to
23:39.50 ``Erik O:-)
23:41.20 Maloeran Transparency shouldn't be too much trouble, but I'm not too sure what model to use for that. The truck has gaps everywhere
23:42.23 ``Erik *shrug* the truck also has lots of internal geometry
23:42.47 Maloeran brlcad, I'm not entirely following when you say it was receiving the events but not doing what it was supposed to
23:43.06 Maloeran Are you talking about the escape, space bar keys? I can't think of much else. Mouse input sure would be good to add
23:44.54 brlcad yeah, space is a good example.. press escape and it'd print that an event was received right before doing into whatever the name of that routine is in the case statement
23:45.35 brlcad so it'd get there.. but the reset routine to stop the motion wasn't functional for "some" reason
23:45.35 ``Erik the interactive demo interface isn't the point, though, ... don't sacrifice too much effort to dress it up, just show off glitzy featues of the lib :)
23:45.59 Maloeran <PROTECTED>
23:46.50 Maloeran Anyhow, that can't be too serious as a problem
23:46.52 brlcad hmm, then that wasn't the one I was looking at or not the same place in the code perhaps .. but same end result
23:47.08 brlcad i.e. space wasn't stopping it, and esc wasn't quitting
23:47.20 ``Erik escape has worked since the beginning for me o.O
23:47.25 Maloeran Right, okay. OSX I assume?
23:47.28 ``Erik what A) version and B) os/arch ?
23:47.31 brlcad intel OS X
23:47.45 brlcad latest SDL binaries
23:47.59 brlcad whatever ver of rayforce I was given.. recent cvs iirc
23:48.45 Maloeran I really have no explanation, the SDL scancodes are supposed to be constant
23:48.52 ``Erik ok, I have a macbook pro here, lemme update it and give it a whack there...
23:57.18 Maloeran Status, Erik?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061202

00:06.50 ``Erik status: my dinner is almost done
00:06.50 ``Erik :D
00:06.54 ``Erik oh, and I got the macbook on the network... now to get the source... and the dependancies... heh
00:07.08 Maloeran Oh :)
00:11.15 ``Erik chekcing out...
00:13.18 Maloeran Threaded ray tracing should work smoothly now
03:12.31 *** join/#brlcad Matsu (n=kurumin@201-7-126-204.superonda.com.br)
03:13.04 Matsu Hi, Good evening
03:13.12 Matsu Is there somebody live?
03:14.32 Matsu folks?
03:19.30 Maloeran Good evening
03:20.29 brlcad howdy
03:23.13 Matsu hey
03:23.18 Matsu Man
03:23.33 Matsu I cant find a tutorial to explane me how to import dwg files
03:23.34 Matsu :(
03:23.58 Matsu And.. sorry for my poor english... it's not my mothertongue
03:23.59 brlcad there isn't a dwg importer, only a dxf one
03:24.09 Matsu oh man... :(
03:24.16 brlcad also dwg is a 2D drafting format, not a 3D solid modeling one
03:24.25 brlcad and solid modeling is brl-cad's focus
03:24.39 brlcad not drafting purposes so much
03:24.54 Matsu But man, what cad client should i use then?
03:25.10 Matsu i knew you were focused in 3d modeling
03:25.14 brlcad the only mildly interesting open source 2D drafter that comes to mind is qcad
03:25.36 Matsu qcad?
03:25.38 Matsu ok
03:25.54 Matsu man, thank you very much
03:26.52 Matsu And let me tell you that this project seemed to me (some one that knows nothing about softs...) you guys have a nice project
03:26.57 Matsu Man, thanks
03:27.12 Matsu I've autocad
03:27.14 Matsu but
03:27.25 Matsu i want an open source
03:27.31 Matsu and i'm also
03:27.34 Matsu migrating to linux
03:27.36 Matsu so...
03:27.47 Matsu auto cad has nothing to linux
03:27.50 Matsu a pity
03:27.57 Maloeran Eheh, right. Last time I used Autocad was on DOS, I guess they only migrated to windows
03:28.20 Matsu right. they have only support for windows.
03:28.35 Matsu and run things through wine is not so cool i'd say
03:28.54 Matsu i tryied to do with a simple program and is crashig all the time
03:29.04 Matsu so.. i dont wanna use wine to run win softs
03:29.20 Matsu Guys, ty for all. Good luck
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15:36.53 jack- heya
15:36.59 jack- anyone around atm?
15:37.25 jack- i've run into a silly problem, trying to build adrt
15:37.47 jack- the header file splash.h just isn't included with brlcad7.8.4.tgz
15:37.52 jack- ..wtf ;)
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15:39.15 jack- hi clock_
15:39.23 clock_ jack-: hi
15:39.32 clock_ Can I run brl-cad under vnc?
15:39.37 jack- i bet
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15:39.48 jack- i bet you can
15:39.59 jack- did you build adrt already?
15:45.41 ``Erik heh, splash.h is missing? hrm
15:47.15 jack- yeah
15:47.22 jack- trying the 7.8.0 archive now
15:47.38 jack- if it's included there, it's ok
15:47.51 jack- but you'll want to include it with 7.8.4 as well ;)
15:48.10 ``Erik I'd be surprised if it got removed
15:48.17 ``Erik given what it was, I'm sure it was never included
15:48.18 ``Erik :/
15:48.32 jack- observer.c wants it
15:48.46 jack- whatever it shows, i don't care :) just want the stuff to build finally
15:49.06 ``Erik yeah, it's a splashscreen image that just sits for a second, if you hack observer.c so it doesn't try the pslash screen, it'll be all good
15:50.21 jack- would need to hack it thoroughly, since it's a header file and observer.c coughs without.missing a couple defines and functions
15:51.22 jack- surprise, sigh
15:51.30 jack- root# tar tzf brlcad-7.8.0.tgz |grep splash
15:51.34 jack- root#
15:51.40 jack- ;(
15:52.53 jack- fn~``Erik: is it big? i could just include a .patch and write it into the builddir myself
15:53.05 jack- if you'd dcc splash.h to me :)
15:53.57 jack- (i'm trying to package brlcad for fink/macos x, that's why)
15:54.27 jack- builds perfectly, but i want adrt too of course
16:04.09 ``Erik jack: it's an 800x600 image reduced to raw rgb, then printed as an array of numbers...
16:04.32 jack- sounds like "yeah, kinda big"
16:04.37 ``Erik and I don't have it, I'd have to talk to the guy who wrote it, heh, or create an equivelant, or just take out the references to it... (hack observer.c, like I said)
16:05.04 ``Erik <-- just got a new laptop, so doesn't have ssh keys on sf yet :/ just submitted, but has to wait for the rotation
16:05.22 jack- well, observer.c is trying to do more than just access an array..
16:05.32 jack- guess i'd need the rest of that file at least ;x
16:06.02 jack- ok, maybe you're right and it's doable
16:06.12 ``Erik anything is doable :D
16:06.20 ``Erik given sufficient time and knowlege
16:06.23 ``Erik knowledge
16:06.24 jack- gonna comment all the isst_logo stuff out and try again
16:06.27 jack- heh, yeah
16:06.30 ``Erik knowledge of spelling would help :D
16:06.46 jack- but as a packager, i usually don't waste too much time with a single package you know ;)
16:07.09 ``Erik which os?
16:07.13 jack- given that brlcad is huge and awesome, i'll try though
16:07.19 jack- fink/macos x
16:07.57 ``Erik cool, I'm going through and getting all my goodies installed on my new macbook pro 17" :)
16:08.06 jack- :)
16:08.16 ``Erik adrt/isst really isn't taht much of a part of brlcad, though
16:08.25 jack- join #fink if you need/want help
16:08.33 jack- yeah well, it's the SDL frontend
16:08.39 ``Erik brlcad's geometry format is the ".g database", and adrt uses its own formats
16:08.43 jack- so quite some mac users would love it
16:08.51 ``Erik adrt is strictly facetized geomtry, brlcad is very much csg
16:08.58 jack- i know, yeah
16:09.03 ``Erik adrt was just shoved into brlcad as "a convenient place to put it"
16:09.13 jack- haha ok :)
16:09.14 ``Erik I force it to not build on my fbsd port
16:09.23 ``Erik <-- used to use fink, went to darwinports/macports, sorry ;)
16:09.27 jack- and users don't cry?
16:09.39 jack- well, you can use both on a single mac without problems
16:09.44 ``Erik 99.9% of users can't find mged, much less know they're missing adrt
16:09.51 jack- dp lives in /opt/local while fink uses /sw
16:09.54 ``Erik yeah, I know
16:09.58 ``Erik I used to do that
16:10.12 jack- what i like about fink is the fact that it's using the debian tools
16:10.15 jack- dpkg/apt
16:10.19 ``Erik but kept moving to darwinorts more and more... the last thing keeping fink on my machine was gnucash
16:10.25 jack- that makes packaging fun for real
16:10.32 jack- heh :) ok then
16:10.56 ``Erik <-- has a couple debian boxes, never packaged for it... is very much a fbsd guy, and dp uses a /usr/ports/ like thingy,almost... kinda... sorta...
16:11.05 ``Erik a lot of retarded, so I THINK it might be more influenced by gentoo
16:11.10 jack- kinda, yeah ;)
16:11.10 ``Erik stupid linux kids *shakes fist* :D
16:11.18 jack- you know there's gentoo/osx too
16:11.28 jack- but i can't recommend to use that :p
16:11.34 ``Erik ummmmm
16:12.05 ``Erik http://funroll-loops.org/
16:12.46 jack- :D
16:12.54 ``Erik (if I gotta use linux, I go with debian, but I'm a bsd guy... done time on solaris, hpux, aix, ... still likes me my bsd's)
16:12.55 jack- times out here, but cute url
16:13.11 jack- maybe i should do http://vomit-frame-pointer.org?
16:13.24 ``Erik yeah, the server seems to be down or something
16:13.25 ``Erik *sigh*
16:13.36 ``Erik doesn't ping
16:13.48 ``Erik but the topic of the page is "gentoo is for ricers"
16:13.55 jack- hrhr
16:14.17 jack- well anyway, thanks for the hint..i'll package brlcad without adrt for now
16:14.17 ``Erik with a point by point teardown of the mentality (with real forum and mail list quotes), and pictures of fugly assed 'riced' cars
16:14.17 ``Erik :)
16:14.40 ``Erik okie, once the keys rotate, I'll look into doing something about the splash screen
16:14.42 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile.am: missing splash.h header from dist
16:14.59 brlcad jack-: yeah, it's missing from the dist .. but it's in CVS
16:15.09 jack- sent an email to brlcad@survice.com, asking for help :) maybe someone notices
16:15.12 jack- oh, sweet
16:15.22 jack- i'll use anoncvs, thanks
16:15.28 ``Erik oh, swank
16:15.30 ``Erik aight
16:15.51 brlcad heh, @survice.com? where'd you get that e-mail from?
16:16.02 ``Erik ehhh, survice.com probably has their own dealie
16:16.13 ``Erik trying to convince people they do it so they can charge for it, sheesh
16:16.14 ``Erik :D
16:16.16 jack- http://brlcad.com
16:16.23 ``Erik brlcad.org is the real one
16:16.24 brlcad they provide commercial support
16:16.28 ``Erik :D
16:16.36 jack- duh, ok
16:16.38 brlcad the main website is the .org
16:16.44 jack- yeah i figured :)
16:16.57 jack- but looking for a support email there, i only found out about this chan
16:17.06 brlcad either way, the header is here if you want to give it a try: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/splash.h
16:17.06 ``Erik oh ffs
16:17.13 ``Erik no fucking wonder shit is fucking broken, those fucking fucktards
16:17.14 jack- thanks!
16:17.22 jack- don't swear ;)
16:17.39 ``Erik sorry, just realized why my ssh keys weren't working. orgnizational retardation.
16:17.59 brlcad jack-: you will have to tweak the build to get adrt to compile, it's not been integrated for a seamless compile yet
16:18.12 jack- oh, i see
16:18.15 brlcad i.e. you'll have to override the flags to get things to link, for example
16:18.23 jack- alright
16:18.29 jack- thanks for the warning :)
16:18.40 brlcad unless you happen to have stuff in exactly the same place justin did when he last committed.. ;)
16:19.01 brlcad there are some hard-coded paths and other assumptions
16:19.10 jack- hehe ok
16:19.19 brlcad if you're making a release distribution, you can leave adrt out of it without really any impact
16:19.33 jack- ok
16:19.33 brlcad adrt isn't installed in our own binary releases yet even
16:19.41 jack- alright :)
16:20.51 ``Erik ohyeah, jack, the tcl/tk stuff... it doesn't quite work right if you use the system tcl/tk due to path issues... so at the moment (unless something has changed recently), you'll need to force it to build the included tcl and tk...
16:21.03 jack- oh
16:21.06 jack- i wondered already
16:21.23 jack- because it recognizes and links to my libtcl, but builds its own libtk
16:22.10 ``Erik http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/ <-- the freebsd port stuff
16:22.12 brlcad if you run into a problem, recompile with --enable-almost-everything
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16:22.24 ``Erik you might get some clues out of the makefile
16:22.29 jack- ok
16:22.32 brlcad that will remove the external dependencies
16:22.51 jack- if i do --without-sdl, it will only disable adrt right?
16:22.57 brlcad there's even a few tools in the dist named after you
16:23.00 brlcad g-jack
16:23.01 brlcad jack-g
16:23.06 ``Erik at the moment, only adrt/isst uses sdl, yeah
16:23.08 jack- noticed already ;)
16:23.12 brlcad heh
16:23.40 brlcad you should need to enable/disable it
16:24.04 brlcad adrt will be automatically disabled if it doesn't find what it needs .. and if it's trying, then --disable-adrt
16:24.17 jack- ok
16:24.22 ``Erik --disable-adrt-build
16:24.29 brlcad same flag
16:24.41 ``Erik okie, *shrug*
16:24.49 jack- --without-sdl works too, i really don't mind skipping adrt/isst if it's that unimportant
16:24.57 brlcad (lots of aliases, so one doesn't have to care)
16:25.18 brlcad it'll be cool/good to get adrt working with the default build
16:25.23 brlcad but nobody has done that yet
16:25.34 jack- include splash.h and someone might succeed ;)
16:27.09 brlcad you have to be pretty familiar with resolving symbols and linking software to fix it .. your random compiling user does not know much about that and I'd rather not be inundated with support requests
16:27.27 brlcad regardless, the splash.h was just fixed (/me points up at CIA message)
16:27.31 jack- that's what fink is for, don't worry
16:27.43 jack- the users will only but me, since i'm $MAINTAINER
16:27.49 jack- *bug
16:28.42 brlcad glad someone is putting it into fink.. thanks :)
16:28.58 jack- had to autoreconf brlcad anyway, -undefined dynamic_lookup is way too dirty ;)
16:29.06 jack- but with autoreconf it builds like a charm
16:29.33 brlcad ahh, you mean from that source dist
16:29.38 jack- yeah
16:29.45 jack- brlcad7.8.4.tbz
16:30.29 jack- (there's no automatism in fink yet, for checking out cvs/svn repos to get source)
16:33.03 jack- if you're interested, i'll show you what i had to do to get it to build
16:33.27 brlcad in a bit, sure.. have to run out for a little while though
16:33.27 jack- PatchScript: <<
16:33.27 jack- autoreconf -fvi
16:33.27 jack- perl -pi -e "s,-g -O,-O,g;s,-O2,-Os,g;s,-O3,-Os,g;s,/[s]w,%p,g;" configure
16:33.27 jack- perl -pi -e "s,-all_load,,g;" configure aclocal.m4
16:33.28 jack- perl -pi -e "s,/usr/local,%p,g;s,-lpython2.4,-L%p/lib/python2.4/config -lpython2.4,g" src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.in
16:33.31 jack- perl -pi -e 's,ac_default_prefix=/usr/local,ac_default_prefix=%p,;s,search_dir="/usr/local",search_dir="/fart",' configure
16:33.33 brlcad or not :)
16:33.34 jack- <<
16:33.36 jack- ok
16:34.09 jack- ConfigureParams: --mandir=%p/share/man --with-extra-includes=%p/include --with-extra-libs=%p/lib --disable-dependency-tracking --with-x --with-sdl --with-python --with-jdk --with-opengl --enable-proe-plugin-build --enable-unigraphics-build --enable-optimized --enable-progress --disable-debug --libdir=%p/lib/brlcad/lib --bindir=%p/lib/brlcad/bin --includedir=%p/lib/brlcad/include
16:34.37 jack- (that way, the huge bunch of binaries/libs doesn't collide with other fink packages like skencil, tcltk etc)
16:36.11 brlcad erm, wouldn't the first perl be achieved with a configure CFLAGS? second isn't necessary without adrt, third should be achieved using --prefix?
16:36.47 brlcad some of the options you've added won't fly too
16:37.10 jack- the first...could be, yeah..but i need to replace the hardcoded /sw with the fink prefix of $USER
16:37.11 brlcad dependency tracking is automatically disabled for non-cvs builds
16:38.00 brlcad all the --with flags are auto-detected and really would probably be best left off regardless with maybe the exception of with-opengl
16:38.10 jack- 3rd can be removed without adrt, true of course
16:38.19 brlcad you don't want the proe and unigraphics modules, you don't have the developer toolkits to link them
16:38.29 jack- i just want to make sure it builds the same on every user's system ;)
16:38.36 jack- ok
16:38.56 brlcad --enable-almost-everything is the best to ensure it builds the same ;)
16:39.06 jack- alright, thanks
16:39.17 jack- just sounded too fuzzy for me, i guess ;)
16:39.25 brlcad that will turn on compilation of all our external dependencies so there are no external requirements
16:39.37 brlcad --enable-everything if you want to be brief
16:39.42 brlcad but it's the same thing
16:40.00 brlcad it just can't enable things like the proe and unigraphics modules, so its .. "almost" everything
16:40.23 brlcad there's a list in configure.ac if you really care, but the flag's intent is what you wanted
16:40.26 jack- i see
16:44.46 clock_ Can I run mged under vnc to make an instruction video?
16:45.39 brlcad don't see why not, but you don't need vnc for that.. there are several screen capture apps that dump to video
16:49.05 clock_ which?
16:49.16 ``Erik hrmph, I would IMAGINE that if some form of hardware rasterization is being used (opengl, hw 2d accel), such an app would have to do something to extract the image or info to reconstruct the image from the cards frame buffer... ?
16:49.35 ``Erik (does any accelerated ogl program display through vnc?)
16:49.46 clock_ intiailizing and backgrounding please wait
16:50.05 ``Erik you should at least get decorations, heh
16:50.16 clock_ Xlib: extension GLX missing on :1.0. Xlib: extension GLX missiong on :1.0. ogl_open: Can't gen an appropriate visual. Done.
16:50.28 clock_ that's what I get when I run mged in vncviewer
16:51.18 clock_ no windows, no decorations nothing
16:51.28 clock_ Just these messages are printed and I get back to the prompt./
16:51.46 clock_ I have an unsatisfied feeling from that error message.
16:52.42 ``Erik that's an X error, in your X config file, you need the GLX extension
16:56.09 brlcad or you need to recompile mged without opengl
16:56.42 brlcad and just stick to the X11 display manager (--without-opengl will do the trick, iirc)
16:56.47 clock_ Can I do it without recompiling opengl?
16:56.55 clock_ I don't want to disable opengl for my real display
16:56.55 brlcad only in classic mode
16:57.04 brlcad mged -c .. then select X instead of ogl
16:57.12 ``Erik heh
16:57.16 brlcad but you'll be missing the menus
16:57.23 ``Erik I strongly doubt that's what he really wants in making a graphical tutorial
16:57.24 ``Erik :)
16:57.57 brlcad clock_: disabling opengl in mged doesn't remove any functionality, it'll look and behave identical
16:58.21 brlcad it's just whether it draws using X11 calls or OpenGL calls internally in brl-cad's display manager library
16:58.33 clock_ unfortunately, mged -c shows only 1 pane instead of 4
16:58.37 clock_ and no menu
16:58.47 brlcad yep, that's classic mode
16:58.57 clock_ mged --without-opengl doesn't work
16:59.01 brlcad no no
16:59.04 brlcad it's a configure option
16:59.08 brlcad you'd have to recompile
16:59.10 clock_ aha
16:59.19 clock_ can I run without recompile under vnc while retaining the menus?
16:59.40 brlcad the tcl/tk interface isn't changeable at run-time like the classic mode -- it's compiled for only one display manager
16:59.55 brlcad only if you install GLX
17:00.07 clock_ what is GLX? Does it make my vnc support opengl?
17:00.16 ``Erik GLX is how X talks opengl
17:00.36 clock_ and if I install GLX will I be able to run mged under vnc with the menus?
17:00.49 ``Erik in your X config file... you should have a Modules section
17:01.01 ``Erik and in that should be: Load "glx"
17:01.07 clock_ There is Load "glx"
17:01.11 ``Erik hum
17:01.11 clock_ so why doesn't it work?
17:01.17 ``Erik do any other opengl programs work via vnc?
17:01.28 clock_ how can I figure if a program is opengl?
17:01.30 ``Erik 'gears' for example
17:01.42 clock_ I don't have gears
17:01.46 clock_ clock@kestrel:~$ gears
17:01.46 clock_ bash: gears: command not found
17:02.33 clock_ what other program needs opengl?
17:02.50 clock_ hehe I found glxgears
17:03.00 ``Erik woops, glxgears, yeah
17:03.16 clock_ No glxgears don't work under vnc, just tried
17:03.28 clock_ glx extension missing, can't get double-buffered RGB visual
17:04.06 clock_ but never mind the recording program is crap anyway
17:04.15 clock_ I managed to make one video explaining how to use gschem
17:04.26 clock_ but when I tried with links, it always crashed halfway in the transcoding
17:04.43 clock_ once it said the file it generated itself contains some invalid data, second time it crashed on X error
17:04.55 clock_ vnc2swf also crashes every couple of minutes, not really usable
17:05.14 jack- brlcad: which sdk's are required to build the proe and unigraphics modules? are they open/free?
17:05.22 clock_ http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi that's what I made
17:05.59 jack- i mean, it seems to build fine with the stuff enabled, there are no link problems
17:06.04 jack- so what do i need?
17:06.21 clock_ and if I build --without-opengl, will it be also without the menus?
17:07.03 ``Erik yes
17:07.11 clock_ sucks
17:07.33 jack- brb
17:07.33 ``Erik jack: the proe and unigraphics libs need propeitary libraries which are very much NOT free
17:07.40 jack- oh
17:07.47 jack- i see
17:24.37 clock_ What other screen capture programs do you know?
17:24.45 clock_ Which don't require Windows?
17:27.11 clock_ once I think I tried xvidcap but it was disaster
17:27.21 clock_ it was capable of like 2 frames per second or so
18:07.22 jack- ok, seems to build fine without adrt
18:07.34 jack- takes a few hours on my 350mhz crapmac though
18:07.58 jack- http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jack@krass.com <- that's me, if you're interested
18:08.21 jack- sphinx2 and sphinx3 will pop up there soon-ish, too ;)
18:15.06 jack- fn~``Erik: which products are the proe/unigraphics libs bundled with?
18:15.14 jack- are they available for macos x?
18:17.44 ``Erik uhm, pro/e has a whole slew of pieces, I THINK just the 'sdk tools' part is needed to build teh converter? they're at, I think, ptc.com
18:17.49 ``Erik unigraphics, I'm not sure on :/
18:19.57 ``Erik <-- never touched 'em, brlcad has probably messed with them some...
18:21.34 jack- ok, thx
18:22.02 jack- might package the pro/e sdk too, if the license lets me
18:22.21 ``Erik I think the pro/e sdk is a few thousand bucks :(
18:22.28 jack- argh, ok:p
18:22.42 ``Erik and it might only be irix and linux
18:22.46 ``Erik *shrug*
18:22.47 ``Erik oh
18:22.49 ``Erik and windows
18:22.49 ``Erik heh
18:22.55 jack- of course :P
18:23.44 jack- everything that builds on linux is portable to darwin, almost
18:23.56 jack- unless it's using shitloads of linuxisms like procfs
18:24.19 ``Erik hmmmm
18:24.31 ``Erik their sdk won't be source available...
18:25.25 jack- ok, no proe plugin for my users then
18:25.34 jack- no, we don't
18:31.07 jack- can i import old faceted models at all, without adrt?
18:31.18 jack- stuff like softimage, wavefront, lightwave, imagine etc etc
18:32.54 ``Erik hrm, I see imports for dxf (autocad), ply (standford?)
18:33.25 ``Erik elysium neutral
18:33.39 jack- dxf is ok already, thanks
18:33.43 ``Erik exports for obj (wavefront), ...
18:33.55 jack- there are tons of converters for *->dxf, so it should be fine
18:34.08 ``Erik okie :)
18:34.41 jack- think it's bad if i let it link to fink's libtcl?
18:35.24 jack- we'll see if it runs :)
18:35.26 ``Erik if you do, then mged won't start right, it'll complain about missing the core .tcl files
18:35.36 ``Erik at least, that was my experience a bit ago...
18:35.36 jack- oh
18:35.41 jack- ok, i'll see :)
18:35.51 ``Erik one of these days, either brlcad or I will get around to fixing that, heh
18:36.05 jack- :)
18:36.24 jack- doesn't hurt to use zlib, libpng etc if the stuff is there already, right
18:37.35 jack- but it's sad, i want adrt to work too hehe
18:37.36 ``Erik no, zlib png and urt work fine
18:37.54 jack- include splash.h with the next tarball and it should build OK
18:38.01 ``Erik didja take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/Makefile?rev=1.18&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup ?
18:38.11 jack- nope
18:38.47 jack- i see :)
18:38.55 ``Erik it's the freebsd port file... shows all the useful dependancies and flags and shtuff
18:39.11 jack- jove gets disabled automatically here, since it's in fink and installed already
18:39.25 jack- libpng seems to work too..we'll see
18:40.57 ``Erik brlcad includes a copy of jove that will try to build if emacs isn't handy
18:41.06 ``Erik cuz some dipshits have a thing against us vi guys
18:41.11 jack- yeah, i figured :)
18:41.27 jack- but it's np, jove is an own package in fink already
18:41.36 jack- since not everyone who needs it wants a full emacs install
18:42.51 jack- i might package sxemacs in a bit, people tell me it's the best of all forks
18:42.52 ``Erik fbsd has editors/jove too... but if a user wants an editor, they'll install an editor, I don't think a cad package should require emacs/jove
18:43.07 ``Erik <-- quit happy in vim :)
18:43.09 jack- since i have no intention of ever using emacs, i have no idea ;)
18:43.12 jack- yeah, same here
18:43.15 jack- vim rules
18:43.15 ``Erik some like nedit, some are happy in nano
18:43.38 ``Erik that's why I put --disable-jove in my port file
18:43.50 jack- i like kate for some things ;) hehe
18:43.55 jack- there are too many editors
18:45.12 jack- if i enjoy playing with brlcad, maybe i'll hack adrst/isst to use kde libs instead of sdl
18:45.18 jack- but that smells like lots of work ;)
18:45.25 jack- heh
18:45.33 jack- the linking is fine :)
18:45.34 ``Erik ewie, kde
18:45.48 ``Erik the point of isst was to give an almost video game like interface
18:45.56 jack- oh, i see
18:46.04 jack- sdl is a good choice then, sure thing
18:46.05 ``Erik for engineering visualization
18:46.22 ``Erik engineering/analysis
18:46.23 jack- but macosx/fink-sdl means no x11, it's cocoa-native
18:46.43 jack- so if i want to have it all on my x11 desktop, i need to change things for adrt and isst
18:46.49 ``Erik hum, I think isst has no dependancy on X? I don't remember
18:47.02 jack- no, only on sdl :) that's what i mean
18:47.10 ``Erik *shrug*
18:47.57 jack- well, i'm glad it doesn't try to build its own sdl at least :P
18:48.06 jack- since our sdl is majorly hacked
18:48.24 jack- please don't :)
18:48.42 jack- opengl is np, runs fine within x11 here
18:48.45 jack- sdl doesn't
18:48.49 ``Erik there's a variant of brlcad that runs on aqua-tk iirc
18:49.02 ``Erik excuse me, BRL-CAD
18:49.03 ``Erik heh
18:49.06 *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-029.dialin.iskon.hr)
18:49.11 jack- :)
18:49.57 jack- so happy i got the whole bunch to link at least
18:50.07 ``Erik brlcad runs soley on korean food and mt dew o.O
18:50.08 ``Erik :D
18:50.37 jack- after patching a lot of Makefile.in files with -Wl,-undefined,dynamic_lookup
18:50.53 jack- a voice said "dude, why don't you try autoreconfing the shit?"
18:51.06 jack- and woops, all problems were gone
18:51.17 ``Erik heh
18:52.06 ``Erik couldn't' feed it through sed to make all the "patches"?
18:52.26 jack- perl -pi -e == sed
18:52.42 jack- does exactly the same, just slightly faster
18:52.56 ``Erik provided the system has perl on it, sure
18:53.00 jack- yeah
18:53.15 jack- it's a core macosx component, and fink itself is perl code too
18:53.29 jack- so it's something i just don't have to worry about, when packaging stuff for fink
18:53.50 jack- ! :P
18:53.57 jack- i like perl
18:54.02 ``Erik I don't :)
18:54.06 jack- it's far from human readable, ok
18:54.10 jack- but mighty and useful
18:54.29 ``Erik it's duct tape for unix *shrug*
18:54.58 jack- yeah
18:54.58 ``Erik 99.9999% of it's utility is for when the person using it doesn't know awk and sed well enough
18:54.58 jack- there are moments when you just NEED duct tape, aren't there
18:54.59 jack- haha .)
18:55.07 jack- i prefer perl solely for speed reasons
18:55.17 ``Erik and the minute you try to do something beyond a one-liner, it gets horribly ugly, unreadable, unmaintainable, ...
18:55.20 jack- but when i have to do something more sophisticated, i still use awk
18:55.26 jack- (and bc, etc etc)
18:55.55 ``Erik that's, uh... two tiny things now... :)
18:56.00 jack- :p
18:56.08 ``Erik since, uh, '83
18:56.16 jack- hehe
18:56.32 jack- i "dislike" other stuff lots more
18:56.36 ``Erik one was just a convenient way to diddle with an sql rdbms that lacked real sql capabilities... stupid mysql
18:56.40 jack- like python, ruby, tcl
18:56.48 ``Erik I like ruby
18:56.58 jack- why do i need 100 scripting languages on a system? ;)
18:56.58 ``Erik not tcl... d'no python *shrug*
18:57.04 jack- perl can do it all, or could
18:57.05 ``Erik you don't
18:57.06 jack- :P
18:57.07 ``Erik get rid of perl
18:57.10 ``Erik and just use something decent
18:57.11 ``Erik like ruby
18:57.13 ``Erik or scheme
18:57.30 jack- or lisp, right? :)
18:57.32 ``Erik gauche has some slickassed hooks in unix land and is pretty dang snappy
18:57.39 ``Erik lisp is a big heavy
18:57.45 jack- j/k
18:57.56 jack- lisp is emacsfreak shit, to me
18:58.03 jack- i'll never use it, i guess
18:58.19 ``Erik emacs lisp is an entirely different language than cl
18:58.23 ``Erik radiaclly different
18:58.48 ``Erik the notion of fundamenal things like 'scope' isn't even the same
18:58.58 jack- true, ok
19:01.04 jack- curious to see how well things will run now, with a separate libdir/bindir
19:01.28 jack- what do you think, which binaries are "essential" enough to symlink them to %p/bin?
19:01.41 jack- mged, archer, what else?
19:02.28 ``Erik archer isn't important... mged'l be the big one... maybe a script to add /sw/brlcad/bin to the path?
19:02.45 jack- DescUsage: <<
19:02.45 jack- This package has way too many binaries to just pack it all into %p/bin, so it has its own
19:02.45 jack- little tree inside %p/lib/%n. Suggested way of using it, on the command line:
19:02.45 jack- cd %p/lib/%n/bin;export PATH=.:$PATH
19:02.45 jack- <<
19:02.52 jack- ;)
19:02.58 ``Erik and set up the right environment variables
19:03.02 ``Erik like BRLCAD_ROOT
19:03.05 jack- maybe i'll symlink none, and leave it that way
19:03.06 jack- oh
19:03.15 jack- that's needed? thanks
19:03.31 ``Erik (it kinda expects to be somewhere like /usr/brlcad or /usr/local/brlcad .. maybe /sw/brlcad ... :) btu it expects to be in its own universe)
19:03.45 jack- will make things easy for users if all parts read+respect that, cool
19:04.01 jack- %p/lib/brlcad here
19:04.17 ``Erik so the librarys are in /sw/lib/brlcad/lib/ ?
19:04.20 jack- fink really dislikes when packages make dirs right in its root path
19:04.23 jack- yeah, exactly
19:04.25 ``Erik okie
19:04.36 ``Erik *shrug* :) whatever works
19:04.41 jack- :)
19:04.51 jack- can't wait to render the bench pics finally
19:04.52 jack- hehe
19:04.55 ``Erik did you try installing it without fink so it can spew in /usr/brlcad ?
19:05.03 jack- nope
19:05.04 ``Erik and see the four hundred and something binaries in /usr/brlcad/bin/ ?
19:05.17 jack- i did build it already, yeah :)
19:05.31 jack- tons of binaries, some of which even collide with fink stuff
19:05.43 ``Erik yeah, that's why it wants its own world
19:05.44 jack- that's why i originally thought ok, own universe for this stuff
19:05.48 ``Erik libraries collide, too
19:05.53 jack- yup
19:05.57 jack- libtk ;p
19:06.06 ``Erik m
19:06.07 ``Erik um
19:06.12 ``Erik brlcad native libraries, even
19:06.27 jack- kinda funky that it likes fink's libtcl, but not its libtk
19:06.39 jack- maybe i'll let it build everything indeed
19:06.39 ``Erik libbn or libbu, one of thsoe two, conflicts with something really common, like a lib in openssl or something
19:06.50 jack- i see
19:07.04 jack- but fink's openssl has its own libdir as well
19:07.38 jack- (since there are 3 of them ... .96 .97 and .98.somealphaorbeta
19:13.36 jack- you might want to use a newer libtool, in some future release :)
19:14.05 jack- was the only reason why i needed to autoreconf the stuff
19:15.00 jack- 1.5.22, weird
19:15.15 jack- oh wait, after the autoreconf
19:15.19 jack- one sec :p
19:21.48 jack- root# brlcad-7.8.4/libtool --version
19:21.48 jack- ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58)
19:22.09 ``Erik still a 1.5 *shrug*
19:22.24 jack- yeah, but would you recommend 1.5a as well? :P
19:22.30 jack- you know what i'm saying
19:22.36 jack- 1.5.22 is about 2 years newer
19:23.31 jack- 2.5, to be precise
19:23.49 ``Erik <-- tends to be cautious about updating important things... reads changelogs and decides if he'll upgrade... given no problems being reported with that libtool, it doesn't seem important to upgrade just for the sake of staying on the bleeding edge
19:23.59 jack- we (fink) got quite a few libtool fixes done by upstream, meanwhile ;) other folks as well
19:24.21 jack- 1.5.22 isn't bleeding edge :) 1.6-svn-testmeplease is
19:24.34 jack- 1.5.22 is the polished, perfect version of 1.5
19:24.56 ``Erik whoa, wait...
19:25.13 ``Erik did you just call a gnu tool "polished" and "perfect"???
19:25.17 ``Erik :>
19:25.20 jack- :P
19:25.28 jack- as much as it can be, at least
19:25.40 jack- there happened a LOT of fixing from 1.5a to 1.5.22, believe me
19:27.18 jack- and btw, take my problem report serious plz :) the shipped libtool fucks up badly on osX
19:34.27 jack- ;)
19:34.43 jack- it's one of the most cursed things in #fink, don't worry
19:35.28 ``Erik http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292
19:35.32 jack- but you know what, i still like autoconf/automake anyway
19:35.43 jack- cause scons, waf and all that shit just sucks donkey balls
19:35.48 ``Erik automake is dandy *shrug*
19:36.00 ``Erik heh
19:36.11 ``Erik brlcad used to use something called "cake"
19:36.24 ``Erik <-- got the joy of converting to automake when he was new to the project :)
19:36.29 jack- glad you switched ;)
19:36.45 jack- thx for that link btw
19:40.27 clock_ Do you know that kind if white marker you put over something written with ink and it makes the ink invisible
19:40.43 clock_ and when you attempt to write over that place with fountain pen again, it will be also erased?
19:41.22 jack- yeah
19:41.29 jack- tipp-ex here
19:44.25 clock_ no tippex is kinda a lacquer
19:44.36 clock_ this is what contains trasparent fluid that chemically reacts with the ink
19:44.41 clock_ so the paper looks like new
19:44.55 clock_ but if you write over it, it will react again and the pen will not leave a trace in that place
19:47.13 jack- oh
19:47.15 jack- i see
19:47.38 jack- doesn't work with all inks i bet, but nice anyway
19:47.51 jack- good for fooling people
19:48.52 clock_ it works with the ordinary ink
19:49.05 clock_ looks like a permanent marker, but the tip is white and moist
21:14.15 *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-198.dialin.iskon.hr)
21:34.49 Maloeran Cool, there's an U.S. patent on the concept of making a cat chase the light spot of a hand-held laser
23:43.33 brlcad mm.. korean food and mt dew
23:44.00 ``Erik o.O
23:46.47 brlcad shouldn't set or need to set BRLCAD_ROOT unless it's relocated
23:55.02 ``Erik when's the next optimal time to break thing horribly, er, I mean, uh, the next slush for a release?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061203

00:55.19 ``Erik ok, fine, the time is now :D
01:14.16 brlcad planning on 9th/10th
01:24.53 ``Erik chad vader is awesome o.O
01:24.59 ``Erik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiW838wNiM
01:25.13 ``Erik and, uh, hrm, my commit didn't get a msg here
01:26.19 brlcad cia's being a little slow today
01:26.31 brlcad like 40 min or so slow
02:00.48 jack- how would i get brlcad to respect $LIBDIR even for the lib/tk8.4/*.tcl files?
02:01.23 jack- it built perfectly now, but it wants to overwrite stuff in %p/lib/tk8.4
02:01.31 jack- dpkg doesn't like that ;)
02:02.51 ``Erik heh
02:03.29 ``Erik ummm, modify source? heh, like I said, dude, it wants to live in its own universe :D
02:03.45 jack- i want it to, as well ;)
02:04.09 jack- but i'd want the man files to go into %p/share/man, that's fine
02:04.12 jack- and so on
02:04.26 jack- just bindir and libdir ought to be respected
02:05.00 brlcad jack-: sounds like something amiss in a libtk Makefile.am
02:05.02 ``Erik but it needs the scripts in the right place, too
02:05.25 jack- ok, let me check
02:05.37 jack- maybe i'll have to use --oldlibdir or something freaky :)
02:06.10 jack- Elapsed installation time: 32 minutes, 4 seconds
02:06.10 jack- Elapsed time since configuration: 5 hours, 41 minutes, 35 seconds
02:06.20 jack- just so you know what kind of crapmac i have
02:06.22 brlcad tcl/tk has it's own internal logic for searching for and finding it's resource files, so moving them around from the defaults may break things at run-time
02:06.39 jack- ok
02:06.39 brlcad that is pretty slow
02:06.45 brlcad about an 800 G4?
02:06.48 jack- no
02:06.52 ``Erik 350mhz?
02:06.54 jack- 350mhz g4 ;)
02:06.56 ``Erik :)
02:06.56 jack- yeah
02:06.59 brlcad ah
02:07.00 ``Erik (he said it earlier)
02:07.09 brlcad well, 32 minutes isn't a full build on a 350 :)
02:07.21 jack- it's only the install
02:07.27 brlcad ahh, right
02:07.29 brlcad missed that
02:07.29 jack- Elapsed time since configuration: 5 hours, 41 minutes, 35 seconds
02:07.40 jack- that's the build after configure, including the install
02:07.49 ``Erik it'd make people more careful about their code and build systems :/
02:08.01 jack- :P
02:08.26 jack- does a 120mhz cyrix need a fan? ;)
02:08.40 ``Erik jack: oh yeah, old cyrix ran hot
02:14.42 jack- --enable-everything --without-sdl will let it build everything except for adrt/isst, right?
02:15.30 jack- let me know when 7.8.5 is done, plz :)
02:15.46 jack- no reason to skip adrt for my maccies
02:17.20 jack- if there's still a noteworthy update frequency, sure :)
02:17.42 ``Erik it's SUPPOSED to be monthly
02:17.53 jack- sweet
02:18.06 ``Erik but pointy hairs have intervened lately, so that hasn't been realized in a bit :)
02:18.09 jack- i'll sign up when you did the setup :)
02:18.11 jack- hehe
02:18.14 jack- no worries
02:19.59 brlcad ``Erik: there already is a brlcad-announce
02:20.04 brlcad it's just called brlcad-news
02:21.41 brlcad and releasing by 9/10th is for this month
02:21.49 brlcad it was last month that was missed
02:22.44 brlcad the window is within the first two weeks, unless there is some other need that presses for something off-schedule
02:23.15 brlcad jack-: good question
02:23.29 ``Erik okie, I just looked at the archive for -news and didn't see an announce in the last, uh, ... year
02:23.30 brlcad on the whole, probably.. but it'll likely break a couple of the tools
02:23.40 jack- hrm
02:23.52 jack- so i should specify only $PREFIX?
02:24.08 brlcad ahh yeah.. I only send the news announcement when it's a bigger push
02:24.09 jack- but i want the manpages reachable easily, without playing with MANPATH
02:24.20 brlcad there's not been a full binary release probably since the last -news
02:24.37 brlcad that's when they generally get sent so the announcement can say that binaries for all plats are up
02:24.58 jack- feel free to put a fink-pdb-brlcad link onto your website in a bit, when i'm done
02:25.16 ``Erik ok, mebbe there should be an announce list for the package maintainers... :D
02:25.16 jack- i should be able to get it migrated to stable quickly, then we'll have it bindisted too
02:25.24 ``Erik so I won't be in your office every other day asking when the next release is
02:25.32 ``Erik and we dont' have to remember jack's email...
02:25.33 ``Erik and ...
02:25.37 brlcad jack-: that's what I'd recommend for now, only setting prefix .. unless you want to patch up the couple tools that will likely break (mged, benchmark, and brlman come to mind)
02:25.54 ``Erik (of course, making freshmeat part of the release checklist would satisfy that, we could just subscribe)
02:25.55 *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx)
02:25.55 jack- ok
02:26.20 jack- but it will still find and link to x libs, opengl, python etc right?
02:26.20 brlcad jack- can be added to the dev notification list in HACKING if he wants to be notified
02:26.33 jack- sure, why not
02:26.43 brlcad and/or even minor releases could be sent to -news, it's just not come up
02:27.00 brlcad freshmeat is already on the release checklist
02:27.11 jack- jack@krass.com
02:27.34 jack- just put me on some list that will notify me of new releases and stuff
02:28.08 ``Erik 7.8.4 didn't get put in fm
02:28.41 ``Erik :)
02:28.52 brlcad ah, just an oversight
02:28.58 brlcad twas minor
02:29.27 brlcad you can update it, you know :)
02:30.51 brlcad jack-: added
02:30.59 jack- thx
02:31.29 ``Erik <-- not a project admin on fm
02:33.06 brlcad what's your username?
02:33.59 brlcad also, regardless.. "Project may be administered by the public" is set to yes
02:34.08 brlcad so really anyone can update it
02:35.36 brlcad heh, found it.. nice username
02:35.52 ``Erik ah, hum
02:35.58 ``Erik it is public
02:35.59 ``Erik n/m
02:36.00 ``Erik :)
02:36.05 ``Erik <-- br0ke
02:36.29 ``Erik been a long time since I've done a release on fm, heh
02:40.36 brlcad s/of/up/
02:44.19 ``Erik <-- just likes givin' ya shit :D
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08:49.15 jack- moin clock_
08:49.37 jack- auch brlcad developer? oder eher user?
08:50.29 clock_ moin
08:50.31 clock_ eher user
08:50.45 jack- ok
08:51.04 jack- hab dann wohl bald ein paar fragen ;) build muesst bald durch sein
08:51.40 jack- ist adrt fuer dich wichtig/cool/nuetzlich?
08:51.47 jack- oder gehts auch ohne?
09:03.47 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-96.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:52.55 *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-209.dialin.iskon.hr)
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13:00.52 brlcad tag
14:08.11 Maloeran Erik, will you be able to assist in identifying the threaded prep bug, today or in the following days? It's impossible for me to reproduce it, might be the fbsd and Linux threads behaving differently, or that I would need 8 cpus instead of 2 cores or 2 cpus
14:21.48 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-96.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:26.04 ``Erik don't have access to multicore machines readily today... and the 8 core machine was linux (2.6.9el)
14:26.18 ``Erik tomorrow morning I'm going to be in a class
14:26.23 ``Erik tomorrow afternoon I should be able to help
14:26.50 Maloeran Great, thanks
14:43.22 brlcad hehe
15:22.56 Maloeran Actually, I may have understood that bug
16:02.03 *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
16:03.20 Maloeran This is both amusing and very sad : telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
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16:21.15 ``Erik nice
16:21.37 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
17:15.44 danfalck anyone here care to help me with an 'Archer' config/use question?
17:17.02 danfalck I'll ask in advance
17:17.10 danfalck does 'Archer' actually work?
17:18.18 danfalck how can I get 'Archer' to find my blt library (blt2.4 I think) and I have also created a symbolic link, just in case...?
17:21.52 danfalck I get lots of 'can't find blt' errors when trying to do anything with it
17:22.46 ``Erik um, I think it's only been run on windows
17:23.09 danfalck ok
17:23.33 ``Erik it's a viewer that survice put together, so we don't really maintain it or pay attention to it... was a convenient place for them to dump it
17:23.34 ``Erik heh
17:23.40 danfalck ok
17:24.10 danfalck I'll stick with mged then
17:24.25 ``Erik feel free to write a better front-end ;)
17:24.37 danfalck I'm kind of thinking about it now
17:25.34 danfalck I might do something weird, like link Varkon to brlcad ; )
17:25.59 danfalck use a bunch of os commands and pipes
17:27.33 danfalck I am starting to learn Unigraphics NX and I am starting to see that with the right front end, brlcad could do some of the same things
17:27.33 ``Erik hrm, kinda like the procdb stuff in brlcad?
17:27.35 ``Erik :)
17:28.05 ``Erik <-- skimming the varkon page, too bad there're no screenies
17:28.17 danfalck I was thinking that it would be cool to do the 2d stuff in varkon and extrude it in brlcad
17:28.47 danfalck varkon is fully parametric 2d and 3d surfacing
17:29.08 danfalck 2d not being surfacing that is : )
17:40.54 danfalck bbl- going to the shop
17:48.20 Twingy hey dan
17:49.45 danfalck I'm back
17:49.50 danfalck Hi Twingy
17:50.13 danfalck how's gcam going?
17:50.17 Twingy very good
17:50.26 Twingy I just got the windows port done
17:50.37 Twingy the pocketing seems to be working now too
17:50.40 danfalck cool
17:50.53 Twingy I'll have another release next weekend after I get back from alabama
17:51.05 danfalck going to Huntsville?
17:51.09 Twingy jah
17:51.38 Twingy in feb I'm going to spend a couple months on dxf/stl import
17:51.46 Twingy then I'll contour pocketing
17:51.55 Twingy then pcb/mcb gerber import
17:52.06 Twingy then I'll let the community drive the direction
17:52.35 Twingy cause at that point I have everything I need to build my stuff
17:52.41 danfalck have you had a lot of downloads?
17:52.50 Twingy no clue, not keeping track
17:53.03 Twingy I'm going to install mrtg later today though
17:53.09 Twingy make sure my bandwidth is still ok
17:53.48 Twingy the windows port was 3 days of pain
17:54.16 danfalck you actually own a windows machine ; ) ?
17:54.22 Twingy I've been touch with Taig, I should have a link from their site soon
17:54.48 Twingy yes, for the electronics stuff
17:55.01 Twingy and under Parallels
17:55.32 Twingy I have the Mach-X PIC programmer that has limited linux support, but I'm using it under windows right now
17:56.26 Twingy k, I got some baseboard molding I need to put in the kitchen, ttyl
17:56.36 danfalck see you later
18:31.06 Maloeran Archer is windows only? I thought it was all portable code, tcl/tk and opengl
18:31.58 Maloeran I guess I'm just surprised SURVICE never bothered to make it compile on Unix
18:45.21 brlcad Maloeran: they have it working on linux too
18:45.39 brlcad it is 99% portable code, just not been fixed in cvs for that last percent
18:46.25 brlcad the non-portable part is that it supports binary plug-in modules and that bit of loading code is platform specific (and currently only has the hooks for windows and linux)
18:46.45 Maloeran Ah, quite good enough
18:57.17 ``Erik no it's not
18:57.44 ``Erik and it needs to work on a vax11/netbsd for brlcad
18:57.45 ``Erik :)
19:10.36 brlcad heh
19:14.05 dtidrow lol
19:19.00 ``Erik heh
19:19.09 ``Erik linux isn't even a unix :( it just has some similarities on the surface :(
19:21.13 *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
19:22.17 dtidrow ``Erik: don't tell SCO that ;-)
19:23.00 docelic http://ir.sco.com/calculator.cfm?initialAmnt=5000.00&historic_Month=11&historic_Day=1&historic_Year=2003
19:25.25 jack archer coughs here as well btw :P
19:25.37 jack some of the tools have shm issues, but the core runs fine
19:26.03 dtidrow docelic: and that 'investment' will soon be totally worthless :-)
19:27.21 brlcad jack: it's expected to 'cough' everywhere except windows until its integration is cleaned up (similar to archer)
19:27.36 jack i see :)
19:27.38 brlcad trivial code fixes, but nobody's done it yet
19:27.58 brlcad s/similar to archer/similar to adrt/
19:28.09 jack yeah, figured :)
19:28.39 jack i bet adrt would build if i included splash.h, but whatever..up to you to do the next release including that file
19:30.08 jack the fb* stuff is probably supposed to stay open until one closes the window, right? ;)
19:30.17 jack window pops up here, but closes immediately
19:32.43 brlcad actually, no it's not
19:33.20 brlcad if you want it to linger, you have to request it (e.g. use -F/dev/Xl or -F/dev/ogll or set FB_FILE env var to /dev/*l etc)
19:33.31 jack oh, sweet
19:33.34 brlcad or use an fbserv and render into that
19:33.45 jack then that stuff probably works properly :) thanks
19:34.41 danfalck brlcad, can I ask about sketch and extrusion?
19:35.35 danfalck is it possible to import lines and arcs from another application- say a dxf file and then do an extrusion of the closed path?
19:35.37 brlcad danfalck: sure .. i'd also commented on archer
19:36.07 danfalck sorry, is there an irc log file somewhere? I was offline for a bit.
19:36.21 brlcad archer works on linux, just hasn't been tweaked in cvs to build cleanly by default yet, it's 99% portable code .. just has one part that supports loading binary modules that isn't portable (and related to why you get blt errors)
19:36.50 brlcad just fyi, in case it matters
19:37.08 danfalck <PROTECTED>
19:37.29 danfalck I didn't really even know what it was until recently
19:37.55 danfalck mged is fine with me though
19:38.02 brlcad it's not immediately possible without tweaking the code as it brings in dxf 2D entities in as BRL-CAD NMG entities instead of "sketch" objects .. you can't extrude nmg entities but the converter mod wouldn't be hard at all to make sketchs instead
19:38.58 danfalck it would probably be worthwhile to be able to do that
19:39.13 brlcad a little better would be to mode the extrude operation to work on the 2D NMG entities too
19:39.19 danfalck revolving the closed path would be useful too
19:39.35 brlcad that actually used to exist
19:39.53 brlcad but well predates me and is no longer in the repository
19:40.24 brlcad i've been trying to find out what happened to the revolution support myself... :)
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23:06.09 ntroutman anyone have time for kd-tree questions>
23:07.46 Maloeran Just ask
23:08.39 ``Erik (odd place to come ask, though)
23:08.40 ntroutman if I have a random list of points, and goto create a kd-tree, do I need to sort the list
23:08.53 ntroutman hey, I'm trying to find anyroom about raytracing
23:09.10 docelic ntroutman: it's not rooms, it's channels
23:09.16 ntroutman yeah, yeah, so shoot me
23:09.17 ``Erik the act of storing in a kd-tree (or any space partition) infers sorting of some form...
23:09.19 docelic and try #blenderchat, then asking from there on
23:09.50 ntroutman thanks docelic
23:09.54 Maloeran I'm not sure if the blender crowd knows much about raytracing and acceleration structures :)
23:09.58 ``Erik heh
23:10.29 ntroutman yeah, I'm not sure what channel would be best, as its not really a modeling question, but a programming question
23:10.29 Maloeran ntroutman, you don't have to "sort" as such, but you'll need to gather some information on your data to be able to make good decisions on the splitting planes
23:10.42 ntroutman Maloeran:
23:11.27 ntroutman Maloeran: I think I should be doing a median selection and creating branches based upon the points that lie on either side of the median
23:11.44 ntroutman but that would require sorting, wouldn't it, to know which side of a median points fall on
23:11.51 Maloeran That wouldn't give too good performance
23:11.57 ``Erik not sorting, but a pas to find min and max
23:12.00 ``Erik pass
23:12.14 Maloeran The cost of traversal of a branch is area*countOfPrimitive plus some constant
23:12.37 ntroutman okay, find the median, then create sublist containing the points from either side of the median?
23:12.38 Maloeran You want to minimize the traversal cost, isolating empty space or containing the geometry as much as possible
23:12.47 Maloeran Not the median, forget the median
23:13.21 ntroutman I'm doing photon-mapping, everything I've read said that the points should be partioned by alternating axis based upon a median slection
23:13.35 ``Erik medianis non-optimal, but if it's for education, why not, as a starting point? *shrug*
23:14.01 Maloeran Ah... Oh, if you want a sub-optimal simple solution, go ahead
23:14.32 ntroutman I'll take a better solution assuming its easy enough to implement
23:14.43 ntroutman I'm not against learning something
23:16.08 ntroutman I want things to be grouped based on euclidian distance, since I have to do a ranged search
23:19.52 Maloeran This brings back memories, Twingy? :)
23:20.15 Twingy unproductive ones, yes
23:20.43 ntroutman lol, well its for an undergrad computer-graphics course
23:21.34 Twingy so you're paying some one to get told to implement a flawed algorithm, where's the logic in that?
23:22.28 ntroutman actually its a self-picked project, so, uhh, i'm not sure what that makes it, lol
23:22.57 ntroutman which part is the flawed algorithm? the photon-mapping or the construction of the kd-tree?
23:23.20 Maloeran Both are pretty much flawed from my point of view
23:23.29 Maloeran Should still be instructive though
23:23.37 Twingy for your current educational state, none, when you are more knowledgeable I'll have a different answer for you
23:24.17 ntroutman okay, so we agree that as an undergrad, this is an instructional project, good, so I'm not completely wasting my time
23:24.29 Twingy yes, I'll agree with that
23:24.38 ntroutman good :-D
23:24.46 ntroutman I hate wasting to much of my time
23:24.51 ntroutman lol
23:25.31 ntroutman anyways, what would be a suggested method of creating the kd-tree if not by the median of the values on a given axis which alternates with each branch?
23:26.07 Maloeran As I said, you want to minimize the traversal cost, you want to isolate and contain geometry from empty space
23:26.51 Maloeran You can still go with the median initially, and fix later on as some flaws become more obvious
23:27.48 Maloeran ( and if you can think of something better than kdtrees, don't be afraid to explore it )
23:28.26 ntroutman isolate geometry from empty space? but we only store photons that have hit geometry and we only search the map when a ray hits geometry. So are you saying that they should be partioned around what geometry they hit, but isn't that done implicitly as they are already spatially close?
23:31.19 Maloeran Ah, this is the sorting of photons, not the sorting of primitives for ray/photon intersection
23:32.21 ntroutman yeah, i'm just working on collecting the photons in the emitting stage into a kd-tree for searching in the rendering stage latter
23:36.53 Maloeran Right. Median splits clearly wouldn't minimize the search time there either, but it's a good first step
23:37.30 Maloeran Median splits would be nice if every photon had an equal chance of being used... but it's generally not the case
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061204

01:01.00 Maloeran I know I have whined about this before, but the C parser of Doxygen sure is broken on many points
01:02.07 Twingy but Lee sure seems to love it
01:02.18 Maloeran Arrays of function pointers are functions, struct variables with gnu99 __attribute__ are "class methods" ( hello, this is C )
01:03.14 Maloeran It's nice on some aspects, but the parser makes some gross mistakes
01:07.43 Maloeran Whenever the data type of something is complex, it thinks it's a function or a method. Oh, and I had Doxygen tell me that for(;;) and if() where undocumented "functions" before
01:11.06 ``Erik nice
01:11.21 ``Erik if only for() and if() WERE functions in C
01:11.22 ``Erik *sigh*
01:12.40 Maloeran Lisp is nice, but I'm not against having some fundamental language contructs that are not functions
01:35.56 ``Erik http://www.calarts.edu/~jwhite/gbj/SeeHim.html
01:36.10 ``Erik lithp and thcheme have language constructs that aren't functions
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16:51.15 brlcad ``Erik: you have any 6.2 discs burnt?
17:18.03 ``Erik uhmmmmmmmm, no, 6.2 isn't released yet
17:18.21 ``Erik it's rc1
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18:36.22 ``Erik mal: fixes rendering, yup, but generation is still effed up
18:36.32 ``Erik linux 8core amd64...
18:36.33 ``Erik linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95d3a668, listhead1=0x2a95bfe290, step0=0x2a95d3a618, step1=0x2a95bfe238, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:718
18:36.34 ``Erik 718 if( ( linklist1->used == LINKS_PER_LIST ) ) {
18:36.34 ``Erik (gdb) print *linklist1
18:36.34 ``Erik Cannot access memory at address 0x0
18:37.02 ``Erik (and fbsd just sits, no crash)
18:40.45 Maloeran Okay, every time or sometimes?
18:42.52 Maloeran And fbsd freezes constantly or it's less consistant? I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going on
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18:44.06 ``Erik linux:
18:44.07 ``Erik 0x0000002a9585ba41 in jobModelPrepStep (engine=0x50aa20, job=Variable "job" is not available.
18:44.07 ``Erik ) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:1720
18:44.07 ``Erik 1720 if( steplink->edge[axismin] < plane ) {
18:44.47 Maloeran Right okay, not too consistent, though I guess it does crash pretty much all the time
18:45.19 Maloeran And always in the same pass, okay
18:46.18 ``Erik if there's a valid cache, it's all grand... gettin' ~40fps on both the 4 core fbsd and the 8 core linux (hardcoded at 4 threads, I guess)
18:46.58 ``Erik hah, linux: Can't attach LWP -1023750857: No such process
18:47.10 ``Erik fbsd seems stuck
18:47.11 Maloeran Yes, fix rfdemo.c to increase that count, hard-coded #define
18:47.21 Maloeran No such process, eh? :)
18:48.47 Maloeran I guess I now have some information to figure out this bug
18:50.22 Maloeran The more backtrace you can throw at me, the easier I think it would be to see what's happening in there
18:51.17 ``Erik 0x0000002a9585ad7f in jobModelPrepEvaluate (engine=0xc4f5d489c4f61b90, job=Variable "job" is not available.
18:51.17 ``Erik ) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:974
18:51.17 ``Erik 974 } while( --a );
18:51.19 ``Erik wonky
18:51.32 ``Erik bt on that is a blown stack
18:51.53 Maloeran Groovy
18:52.55 ``Erik meh, paste.lisp.org seems to be down
18:53.06 Maloeran rafb.net/paste of course
18:53.17 ``Erik <-- coudln't remember the url
18:56.10 ``Erik http://rafb.net/paste/results/kONUFQ20.html
18:56.24 ``Erik those seem to be the 4 cases I get on linux 2.6 amd64
18:56.51 Maloeran Great, thank you
18:56.56 ``Erik np
18:57.10 ``Erik I have a 2 hour meeting starting in 30 minutes...
18:57.51 Maloeran :) Have fun!
19:00.16 ``Erik heh
19:00.34 ``Erik just letting you know in case you have any modifications you want to see run on multi-cache machines
19:01.56 ``Erik hrm, I'm going to try to bump the thread count to something a bit more straining... hope that linux doesn't drop the ball on it... I know it's ok on fbsd and solaris
19:02.25 ``Erik heh, gdb might be the problem here :)
19:04.07 ``Erik goddamn, it's slugging down ugly :(
19:11.06 ``Erik http://rafb.net/paste/results/wJKR5372.html <-- new error
19:11.10 ``Erik 128 threads
19:11.28 ``Erik that the 'job' variable is unavailable on all the errors is... suspicious
19:19.29 Maloeran New error, always the same pass, and consistent with a corruption of the lists of reverse links
19:20.06 Maloeran 128 threads, I haven't tried that yet :). I think I can figure out what's going on, the problem has been narrowed a bit
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22:31.01 brlcad looks like Maloeran needs some valgrindage
22:31.37 Maloeran I can't reproduce the bug, it's of no use ;)
22:31.55 brlcad valgrind will still report the memory problems
22:32.36 brlcad assuming it's not a platformness but actually just problem being masked by linux behavior
22:33.10 Maloeran It's a problem caused by multiple cores not shared the same cache, probably a faulty mutex somewhere
22:33.19 brlcad valgrind is very good in what it does, way better than the memory bounds checkers
22:34.36 Maloeran Indeed, I'm just skeptical on its ability to catch a bug that requires multiple caches to occur
22:34.52 Maloeran Anyway. If I haven't solved this by tomorrow, I'll call a friend to ask to boot his 4 cores desktop on Linux
22:35.53 brlcad you've narrowed it down that far for sure, or guessing? :)
22:36.30 Maloeran I can never reproduce the bug when it is running on a single core, or dual cores but with shared cache
22:36.59 brlcad you mean you can't reproduce the crash
22:38.19 brlcad point being that you could run for years on a single-thread single core machine and never see bad behavior, yet there still be a memory problem (that is simply masked by OS or C lib behavior)
22:38.42 brlcad running gentoo?
22:38.52 Maloeran Of course so, but that memory problem might not be a "problem" in that case just because threads all share the same cache
22:38.55 Maloeran Yes
22:40.58 dtidrow_work gonna get nasty cold around here tonight :-(
22:41.00 Maloeran An unsafe memory instruction might just happen to have a direct memory operand, so you'll never see a problem if threads are executed one at a time on the same cache
22:41.49 Maloeran And no debugger could ever figure that out, unless you trigger the bug with threads running on distinct caches
22:42.22 brlcad you're already assuming that's the bug too (and maybe it is, but it's generally not good to assume when hunting stack corruption)
22:42.45 Maloeran The stack corruption was caused by something else, probably a consequence of the first bug
22:42.51 brlcad easy enough to recompile once, run and get a valgrind report
22:43.11 brlcad comes up clean and then at least basic operation is sound
22:43.43 brlcad if you get lucky, though, it might indicate a problem elsewhere that hadn't even been considered, or thought to be fine
22:44.28 ``Erik heh
22:44.33 Maloeran Syscall param write() points to unitialized bytes in XOpenDisplay() Eheh okay, that was unexpected
22:57.16 Maloeran ( It's not done prep'ing, I think I'll get results before tomorrow )
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23:11.30 Maloeran No error found by Valgrind, unfortunately
23:19.59 ``Erik hum
23:20.16 ``Erik what about grabbing bochs, setting it up as a true smp and grabbing a leenewx smp disk image
23:20.19 ``Erik and see if it can crash in that?
23:20.32 ``Erik (won' be fast, but it might be a way to reproduce the error)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061205

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061205

00:01.02 ``Erik hmmm, 2fps, prep time of 248s
00:01.52 Maloeran Eh okay, that is old
00:02.43 ``Erik 850mhz athlon
00:02.44 ``Erik :)
00:09.10 Maloeran Perhaps you weren't able to notice due to the crashs, but memory consumption can rise by 7% or so when prep'ing multi-threaded, for the same quality
00:09.36 Maloeran Slicing the problem into pieces degrades quality a bit
00:27.52 Maloeran Perhaps I should have. The reason why I haven't bought one myself is simple : 30 days work periods, + 35 days delay to get check, + 30 days period to release U.S check funds With such a 3.5 months delay, I'm just beginning to be paid ;)
00:29.05 brlcad heh, fun .. sounds like my first months of getting paid as a student
00:29.14 brlcad that had about a 3 month delay
00:29.28 brlcad summer job was almost over by the time the paychecks started arriving
00:30.01 Maloeran Eh, exactly. The worst part is that I had paid thousands in lawyers, then came the conference fees
00:30.47 Maloeran So briefly, I'm not quite ready to buy more computer hardware than the laptop yet
00:31.59 brlcad I didn't mean you buy one even
00:32.43 brlcad company equipment, they have the ability to give you one to use if they really want to
00:33.37 brlcad and overall, that's usually the best option -- the liability is on their dime, you can get the best hardware, you don't take the new-machine depreciation hit,e tc.
00:34.07 Maloeran I think it's actually illegal to give equipment to consultants in Canada, or I could risk being defined as an employee
00:34.18 Maloeran In which case they would have breached the law
00:34.20 ``Erik heh
00:41.03 brlcad ahh, mebbie
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10:00.21 archivist heh stellas arthritis
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18:12.33 brlcad heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061206

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02:25.29 dtidrow brlcad: still on?
04:25.54 ntroutman_ any photon mapping people in here?
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14:49.23 Maloeran Can anyone confirm my understanding of floating point math, specifically that if a < b, then floor(a) will always be <= floor(b) ?
14:49.55 Maloeran Without possibility of bad rounding once in a billion
14:50.55 clock_ Maloeran: in floating point, no logic can be used.
14:51.13 clock_ For example the following program printf("%f",a); printf("%f",a); printed two different numbers.
14:51.27 clock_ And it was still in accordance to the behaviour of floating point numbers.
14:52.21 Maloeran My present understanding of IEEE floats and floor() would imply that the logic above would always be true
14:54.24 clock_ yes, the floor() function is a nondecreasing one
14:55.33 Maloeran I'm just unsure about broken implementations doing 32<->80 bits conversions randomly, I know how the extra bits are discarded, truncation or rounding?
14:55.40 Maloeran I don't* know how
14:55.53 clock_ well there is no logic in floating point numbers
14:56.04 clock_ if you need to be able to predict the behaviour, use fixed point :D
14:56.38 Maloeran There's logic for sure, it's still clearly predictable
14:57.15 archivist floats are not predictable never compare to 0 etc
14:57.40 Maloeran Yes, I know that
14:58.13 Maloeran ( And you can compare if you know for sure you are looking for an identical result )
14:59.02 Maloeran Basically, the point here is to do bin sorting, indexing floats in buckets. Can I be sure that all floats landing in bucket A will be < than the ones in bucket A+1 ?
15:00.33 Maloeran That holds true as long as the implementation don't go around converting between multiple precisions ; I don't know if extra bits are truncated or rounded in that case
15:02.00 Maloeran If that's a problem, I may as well extract mantissa and exponent manually, and work with that
15:07.35 clock_ Do you know how to get red_mask,... etc. from XWindowAttributes?
15:08.15 ``Erik ieee specifies several rounding models... down, up, truncation, nearest...
15:09.24 ``Erik I THINK most x86 DEFAULTS to simple truncation, but it's not a defined thing... ummmmm, often there's an ieee header... like on fbsd, it's machine/ieeefp.h and I think on linux it's machine/ieee854.h
15:09.58 clock_ floor is always down
15:10.24 ``Erik floor is always down, but in conversion (32/80 or 64/80), it's definable
15:10.39 ``Erik by the standard... most chips don't implement ALL of the standard
15:12.12 ``Erik (also, floor 3.000000000000000000000000000001 maybe interpreted as floor 2.99999999999999999999999999999 due to fp instabilities, and give 2.0ish)
15:12.30 ``Erik and visa versa
15:12.51 Maloeran The way floor() should work, that should never happen
15:13.07 Maloeran I'm concerned by any internal rounding though.. Ah, what a mess
15:13.09 ``Erik fixed bit representation of floating point sucks arse
15:13.48 ``Erik and dynamic width floating points (precise numbers) tend to incur a performance and memory penalty (scheme, ruby, libgmp, ...)
15:14.35 Maloeran The point at the moment is to sort points and planes faster than my initial quick and lazy balanced binary tree
15:14.51 Maloeran Bin sorting by floor() indexing would work, unless chips play dirty tricks on me
15:15.41 ``Erik the dirty tricks will likely be in cases where #'s are so close, they don't really matter...
15:15.59 Maloeran It matters a whole lot if 3.0000001 rounds to 2.0
15:16.26 ``Erik it'd take more 0's than that
15:16.40 Maloeran Then the count of triangles in each bin is wrong, the traversal cost calculation is off, the actual sorting by comparison against the plane will give incorrect results, and it gets stuck in an infinite loop
15:17.02 ``Erik I don't think you'd see it if you're happy with float precision
15:17.54 Maloeran If I do such bin indexing, it is required for all points in bin A to be < than the ones in bin A+1
15:18.01 Maloeran Unless things will go really bad :)
15:18.06 Maloeran Otherwise* things
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16:39.21 brlcad Maloeran: for IEEE floating point, I believe that is a valid assertion <=
16:41.26 brlcad but that isn't to say that there are plenty of libs and implementations that are not conformant out there (really a lot)
16:43.15 dtidrow arg
16:43.17 brlcad at the hardware and library level really, to the point of not hoping for IEEE
16:43.51 ``Erik http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/msun/src/s_floorf.c?rev=1.7&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
16:43.52 ``Erik gnarley
16:48.26 Maloeran Right, brlcad.. so I guess I can't rely on a comformant behavior on this point
16:49.17 brlcad depends what the purpose is really
16:49.18 brlcad i mean it should make things more stable overall
16:49.27 brlcad but it won't necessarily be rock solid
16:51.24 brlcad all you can guarantee rock solid is that you're within some epsilon, and doing greater/less than comparisons
16:51.46 ``Erik *nod* fp sucks
16:52.00 Maloeran With a big impact on performance
16:52.10 ``Erik it's an approximate representation, so full on precision can't be guaranteed
16:52.44 brlcad pretty much a necessity for analytic purposes, but you could certain finagle some #cludgyness that would make it compile-time optional if you wanted
16:53.40 Maloeran ``Erik, I love floating point. I just wish implementations would all be perfectly predictable and conform to the standard
16:53.51 ``Erik erm
16:53.53 ``Erik the, uh
16:53.58 ``Erik standard is not perfectly predictable
16:54.04 ``Erik 754 OR 854... :/
16:54.36 Maloeran It is for the things I tend to care about, like this floor() thing
16:54.50 ``Erik floor() is totally predictable
16:55.04 ``Erik the number you THINK you have may not be the number you actually have
16:55.22 Maloeran Yes well, the internal conversions between different representations ( 80<->32 ) mess things up a bit
16:55.26 ``Erik if I have a very precise function and I feed it an imprecise input, I cannot expect the output to be any more precise than the input
16:55.43 Maloeran I'm aware of that, I just need consistency
16:55.58 Maloeran If a < b, I need floor(a) to be <= floor(b), always
16:56.04 ``Erik it's not the function, it's the notion that you're using an approximate representation that induces the numeric instabilities
16:56.38 ``Erik if floor() is floorf(), that's probabably a pretty safe assumption... it's probably safe on floord() as well
16:57.09 Maloeran I would need to force the implementation to truncate back to 32 bits before floor(), if it's x87
16:58.48 ``Erik floor() might not execute on the fpu
16:59.12 ``Erik the url I pasted was how fbsd does it, it's a bit twiddle in integer there... I d'no leenewx or others
16:59.14 ``Erik *shrug*
16:59.28 ``Erik (and I don't know if that's a POSSIBLE path on fbsd, or an always path)
16:59.55 Maloeran There are faster hardware solutions, a couple cycles
17:00.27 ``Erik it's highly unlikely you'll have problems, but there's that one little caveat that exists when you do anything at all involving floating point representation... :)
17:01.51 clock_ Now if someone tells me how to run the damned mged in vnc server I can do screenshot videos in Theora, DivX and Windows Media Video
17:01.55 Maloeran Oh, I hit some very annoying fp problems with the old prototype before... :)
17:02.38 Maloeran I had a static function that would compute the bin index, and it was meant to always return the same index when given the same input. It makes sense of course, I had to debug for a long while to discover that... it didn't!
17:02.53 ``Erik clock: um, /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
17:02.56 Maloeran The reason : GCC was inlining it, and it messed up the 80<->32 bits x87 conversions
17:03.24 ``Erik heh
17:06.49 ``Erik 1) Correct 21081851083600.37596259382529338 0x42b32c803ebb5060
17:06.49 ``Erik 2) SPARC-quad 21081851083600.37500000000000 0x42b32c803ebb5060
17:06.49 ``Erik 4) IA32 21081851083600.38281250000000 0x42b32c803ebb5062
17:06.53 ``Erik interesting
17:07.23 brlcad Maloeran: subtracting the two and comparing against an epsilon should be way faster than calling floor() twice (or even once)
17:08.05 ``Erik http://www.validlab.com/goldberg/paper.pdf
17:08.12 Maloeran brlcad, it was for sorting in bins... Make yourself 256 bins, find in which bin a point lands by a mere floor()
17:08.13 ``Erik http://72.5.124.65/sunstudio/articles/fp_errors.html
17:09.22 brlcad "by a mere floor()" sounds rather misleading
17:09.47 brlcad I'd then say that "by a mere macro" you could do that same thing much faster
17:11.00 Maloeran Hum, a macro? I mean it's a serial operation without branching, you get the bin index directly after an add and a mul
17:11.25 ``Erik floor() has several branch points in the msun package
17:11.37 Maloeran floor() has no branches when executed by the hardware ;)
17:11.51 Maloeran These are probably fallbacks
17:12.00 ``Erik hrm
17:12.14 ``Erik I'd expect certain flags to be set depending on what exactly happened
17:12.26 ``Erik :/
17:13.09 ``Erik -ffast-math purposefully breaks ieee for speed
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17:14.31 Maloeran Even that software implementation is better than the 8 nodes of a binary tree to sort in 256 buckets for example
17:14.45 ``Erik *shrug*
17:14.47 ``Erik so do it
17:14.51 ``Erik and see if the test cases get faster
17:14.53 ``Erik :)
17:21.21 ``Erik heh http://support.microsoft.com/kb/214118
17:24.22 clock_ Use Precision as Displayed option in Word ;-)
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20:33.25 Maloeran Tip of the day : Blizzards and bicycles are a poor combination
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21:35.07 brlcad heh, "tip" of the day, nice pun
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061207

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13:56.53 ``Erik =/det
15:20.50 brlcad ^ad does the same in fewer keystrokes
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15:31.30 ``Erik ^ad is screen, /det is bx, and bx doesn't cope with sigwinch right
15:37.21 ``Erik in scheme! w000
17:21.06 Maloeran Adding that to the list, hum? You have an OS and a raytracer to write in Scheme already, or so you said :)
17:22.48 Maloeran Erik, can I assume floats are always IEEE 32 bits floats, and double IEEE 64 bits? Got to play with the binary representation to avoid internal rounding and approximations
17:23.24 Maloeran The prep should be 2-3 times faster apparently
17:46.26 ``Erik um, that's probably safe-ish, but we can test that using autoconf shtuffs
17:57.17 Maloeran Yes, it just means to write a fallback path if we don't have IEEE floats
17:57.32 Maloeran means +"I have" to write
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22:39.07 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/configure.ac: added check for C++ compiler and override default flags to nothing
23:14.29 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx: BRL-CAD to ACIS (export) convertor for importing to CUBIT (1st version) -- needs review and cleanup but fully functional
23:19.26 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/Makefile.am: initial Makefile for g-sat convertor. Has lib paths hard-coded, needs work to be configurable.
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23:37.18 Maloeran Erik, feel free to try the threaded prep again. Fixed a minor potential glitch but I have doubts that was it
23:37.40 Maloeran Oh, and the prep is now twice as fast... with a 2% graph quality loss I don't explain yet
23:43.50 ``Erik don't, or can't?
23:50.01 Maloeran Sorry, I mean I can't explain it yet, I just need to sleep on it
23:52.11 Maloeran Any recommendation of LCD monitor brand for a gamer? ( Not me, christmas present )
23:58.11 brlcad ``Erik: we do it because having unset cflags is no more arbitrary than using -O2 -g
23:59.14 brlcad he didn't add the cflags one -- that was already there, I added it for that very reason. he overrides cxxflags following example
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061208

00:00.30 brlcad I see no reason why GNU should be dictating which flags we should and should not use by default .. as a project we can decide to make optimized or non-optimized a default or some other configuration, that's not GNUs job imho
00:01.32 brlcad we're just about stable enough to flip to having --enable-optimized default to yes instead of no, but that's again a separate decision from GNU's
00:16.28 ``Erik uhmmm, gnu's "defaults" respect environment variables
00:16.36 ``Erik and -enable-optimized doesn't do what I happen to want to do
00:16.49 ``Erik it lacks, for example, the mtune and march stuff I have in my make defaults
00:17.47 ``Erik (and I don't think you know my hardware better than I do.... :)
00:29.09 brlcad uhmmm well if you read it, the environment variables ares still respected
00:29.36 brlcad so you can still mtune to your content
00:30.39 ``Erik heh *shrug* I'm busy writing ruby code :)
00:30.45 ``Erik can't be arsed to figur eout what I'm talking about
00:30.46 ``Erik O:-)
00:30.52 brlcad all it does is change what happens when nothing is specified, which is gnu's
00:31.09 brlcad configure
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03:18.28 ``Erik http://youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU interesting airplane
03:21.19 brlcad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfbTO0GlONU interesting diner!
03:21.48 brlcad heh, that is cool airplane
03:24.32 dtidrow model airplane on steroids :-)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061209

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15:48.05 Maloeran Doh! So that's the threaded prep bug
15:50.57 ``Erik heh
15:50.58 ``Erik what was it? :D
15:51.04 ``Erik bad locking?
15:55.45 Maloeran Basically, yes. In some specific circumstances, it was launching jobs that it shouldn't have
16:03.56 ``Erik ah
16:18.42 Maloeran Finally you'll be able to tell me how the stuff scales, prep and tracing :)
16:21.51 ``Erik but I still have to hack the config file to define the # of threads?
16:22.20 ``Erik libbu has a function to report # of cores, might as well link against it since eventually it'll be shoved into that package
16:23.50 Maloeran The define is in rfdemo.c, not the config.h file. Would be easy to specify that by command line or something
16:24.07 Maloeran With glibc, get_nprocs() can be used to get the count of processors
16:25.24 Maloeran rtContextEnv( RT_THREAD_COUNT_HINT, threadcount, 0 ) <-- rfdemo.c, specifies the count of threads
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18:11.19 ``Erik not every os has glibc... in fact, I can only think of one that does...
18:11.32 ``Erik the libbu one calls get_nprocs() on linux
18:11.38 ``Erik performs the right sysctl on bsd
18:11.39 ``Erik etc
18:11.47 ``Erik works everywhere arl cares about... :)
18:12.18 ``Erik (lots of OS abstraction in the BRL-CAD (happy, brlcad?) libraries)
18:31.03 Maloeran I get the idea, that belongs outside the raytracing library anyhow, in the rfdemo files
18:35.30 Maloeran Neat, you support some exotic platforms in there ;)
18:53.39 ``Erik heh
18:53.48 ``Erik looking at the old vax/vms stuff? or the cray stuff?
18:54.20 ``Erik brlcad cranked up a netbsd install on a vms11/70 I think in simh to make sure the product still works there... a bit extreme :)
18:55.00 ``Erik <-- has teh top plate of a pdp11/70 (pre-vax dec hw) on his windows machine... windows make that smoking machine almost as useful as an old pdp11
18:55.05 ``Erik makes
18:58.53 Maloeran Eheh, very neat
19:00.25 Maloeran I suppose there's no harm in just leaving support for these prehistoric platforms there, you can throw it out if it ever gets in the way
19:01.36 ``Erik heh
19:02.35 ``Erik and I think that too much code is pitiful and unacceptable in the quality aspect
19:03.04 ``Erik take a look at linux kernel code... it's obvious how little thinking was put into portability, and how poorly the hacks to "make it work" here and there are
19:03.22 ``Erik if you only ever support the specific platform and architecture, yes, you can make those assumptions.
19:03.40 Maloeran Yes, but I would say it's about "making it work fast"
19:03.50 ``Erik if you code in that fashion, the second you adjust for another platform, you probably LOSE efficiency as the 'to cope with' hacks get introduced
19:04.04 Maloeran It's an operating system kernel, I would sacrifice design portability for performance
19:04.12 ``Erik heh
19:04.18 ``Erik well, suppose you have two choices
19:04.43 ``Erik you can make a generic thing that works everywhere, but it's only 95% as the optimal on your development machine...
19:04.49 ``Erik so you implement the 100% optimal
19:04.53 Maloeran Linux has big chunks of code for each arch it supports, specifically tailored for the architecture
19:04.54 ``Erik now someone else has different hw
19:05.15 ``Erik so they put in if(thisarch) {do this} else {dothis}
19:05.24 Maloeran Solaris did that, very portable code, and its deserves the Slowaris nickname
19:05.49 ``Erik and someone else has different hw, so now it's if(thisarch) {dothis} else if(thisarch) {dothis} else {dothis}
19:05.55 ``Erik heh, actually
19:06.03 ``Erik solaris was designed to be efficient on usparc
19:06.06 ``Erik and nothing touches it there
19:06.11 ``Erik 'slowaris' is only for the x86 port
19:06.30 ``Erik because it wasn't designed with portability in mind... it was designed for insane efficiency... on a usparc/sbus machine.
19:06.34 Maloeran Ah I see. I did read some comparisons between Linux and Solaris code design
19:06.50 ``Erik solaris is *VERY* tuned to usparc
19:06.54 ``Erik linux is *VERY* tuned to x86
19:07.02 ``Erik the minute you stray from their native environment, they SUCK
19:07.03 ``Erik :(
19:07.46 Maloeran I thought the Linux kernel had huge blocks of arch-specific code, taillored for performance
19:08.02 Maloeran While Solaris had elegant layers of abstractions, making it fairly portable, and slow
19:08.35 ``Erik solaris is well architected, but x86 was a half-assed afterthough
19:08.55 ``Erik the focus was always the latest line of sun hw
19:09.01 ``Erik m68k, then sparc, then ultrasparc
19:09.19 Maloeran Well, you know me, I'll sacrifice code elegance for performance any time. For a kernel, it matters a lot
19:09.26 ``Erik heh
19:09.37 ``Erik in the immediate term, that's acceptable
19:09.44 ``Erik in the long term, it's what leads to shit code
19:09.46 ``Erik like the linux kenrel
19:09.49 ``Erik kernel
19:09.55 ``Erik goto hell, jump tables out the wazoo
19:10.02 ``Erik hack upon hack upon hack
19:10.04 ``Erik it's... sad.
19:10.12 Maloeran I wouldn't qualify the Linux kernel of "shit code"
19:10.23 ``Erik uh
19:10.24 ``Erik if you don
19:10.34 ``Erik if you don't, then you hav enot looked at much kernel code.
19:10.48 ``Erik seriously, dude, I'm BOGGLED that it works AT ALL
19:11.03 Maloeran The parts I read were far better than most other open source code I have seen
19:11.11 ``Erik hm
19:11.17 ``Erik the networking stack is semi-decent
19:11.25 ``Erik the scheduler was just gutted and replaced, it's kinda ok
19:11.42 ``Erik memory management, file system, drivers... horrible
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19:12.10 Maloeran Memory management may be "horrible" code-wise, but it's still efficient
19:12.41 ``Erik efficient on hw with the i386 mmu
19:12.42 ``Erik sure
19:13.02 Maloeran Of course so :)
19:13.06 ``Erik on an alpha? ppc/sp? mips? sparc? vm? of course not
19:13.16 Maloeran There are paths for other architectures, but I haven't read them
19:13.26 Maloeran I guess far less work was put on them
19:13.32 ``Erik the very *NOTION* that there are other paths
19:13.34 ``Erik is a hit.
19:13.37 ``Erik :(
19:13.52 Maloeran It's a compilation time "path", it's only a hit on the time of the programmers
19:14.04 ``Erik of course, the performance related stuff I tend to do tend to be rare runs
19:14.16 ``Erik so in computing total cost, developer time is in there
19:14.18 Maloeran And since it's a kernel, I'm not against having a whole specific path optimized for each architecture
19:14.26 ``Erik well
19:14.43 ``Erik if it were defined sufficiently that each arch could be a totally independant project, great
19:15.08 ``Erik 99.999% of code A) is not that well defined and B) does not have the resource allotment for each plausible arch/os
19:15.14 Maloeran Not independant, most of the code can still be shared, but very distinct modules yes
19:15.30 ``Erik independant projects can share
19:15.41 ``Erik I mean, if you were in tune to the bsd family...
19:15.54 ``Erik freebsd, openbsd, netbsd,and dragonfly are all very much distinct projects
19:15.56 ``Erik but share a LOT
19:16.11 ``Erik all with different focii
19:16.48 Maloeran Well, what can I see, Linux is weaker than alternative on certain architectures. I use the architectures that offer the best performance/cost ratio, as most of the world, and it's ia32/amd64
19:16.57 Maloeran can I say*
19:18.16 ``Erik for both administrative effort and for 'well written' code efficiency :/
19:18.38 ``Erik understanding the semantics of the fundamentals helps
19:19.03 ``Erik like groking the difference between phkmalloc and dlmalloc
19:19.42 ``Erik (phk allocs and frees REAL fast, and guarantees contiguous memory... dlmalloc is just a hair slower on alloc and free, but way faster on realloc)
19:19.55 ``Erik bsd is phkmalloc, linux is dlmalloc
19:19.56 ``Erik :)
19:20.15 ``Erik dlmalloc does *NOT* guarantee contiguous memory, physical pages are all over the place ...
19:20.25 Maloeran I thought the BSD free() was a bit slow though, perhaps just aggressive on releasing memory pages
19:21.01 Maloeran And the OSX free() sure is terribly slow :), one is better write a wrapper
19:21.33 ``Erik like, uh, *nix filesystems fight for contiguous data... where windows is all over teh place... linux wire memory is all over the place (fragmented... assume the process closes before issues happen)
19:21.54 ``Erik I think linux and fbsd free memory asynchronously, where osX is synchronous
19:22.18 ``Erik when you free on linux and fbsd, sometime, that memory will be available.. eventually... on osX, that memory is available when the function returns. Damnit.
19:22.26 ``Erik I'd have to doublecheck to be sure
19:22.31 Maloeran Continuity matters for file systems, but for memory? Processors don't really care if two pages are next to each other or not, the translation takes care of that
19:22.40 ``Erik um
19:22.48 ``Erik most cpu's have a mandatory read-ahead
19:23.06 ``Erik so, uh
19:23.06 ``Erik if you access memory linearly, it DOES matter
19:23.10 Maloeran Yes, and that read-ahead relies on the process address space, not the translated addresses
19:23.24 ``Erik hrm, true
19:23.40 ``Erik :/
19:23.51 ``Erik wench on the phone, code editor with ruby code up, ... etc
19:24.04 Maloeran I guess continuous memory pages would still be better in other circumstances though. DMA'ing to devices and so on
19:24.22 Maloeran Eh, all right. I need to go eat breakfast before it closes at 15h anyhow
19:24.43 ``Erik hehehe :)
19:25.27 ``Erik later, duder
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21:55.41 sand heya
22:15.33 brlcad hello, ...back later...
22:20.29 sand what's the licence for brlcad?
22:29.41 Maloeran LGPL
22:30.25 Maloeran Although some pieces are BSD I think
22:33.53 sand cool
22:33.56 sand why is it not in debian?
22:33.58 sand >P
22:36.00 Maloeran No idea. It isn't in Gentoo either, but it's fairly simple to install
22:57.35 brlcad sand: only because nobody from those projects has completed the effort mostly -- there are partial efforts in place for both debian and gentoo
23:04.16 sand ah
23:59.38 ``Erik if a debian or gentoo porter were looking to get it hooked up, we'd naturally offer to help how we can... I do the freebsd port, so I can provide a file listing, etc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061210

01:49.37 dtidrow Discovery's on its way
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03:23.59 Maloeran Somewhat unexpected from an encyclopedia with abundant information on subjects such as, let's say, each pokemon and its properties
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09:05.24 brlcad dtidrow: ah, dang.. forgot about the takeoff schedule
09:05.31 brlcad good times
09:08.54 fbsdbook how well does the fbsd port of brlcad work ?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061211

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16:47.17 Maloeran Erik, any chance of a quick octo-opteron test today?
17:04.18 ``Erik 'fraid not, I'm rdo today, I can hook you up tomorrow
17:05.21 ``Erik so I still do 80 hrs the fortnight, I just get one extra day off in exchange for longer days
17:07.55 ``Erik join the club
17:31.58 Maloeran And Mark asked to update the milestones once again *sigh*
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061212

02:20.09 Maloeran And the truck is even worse, Erik. It's filled with cracks, and the overlapping triangles are visible as we of course can't use the triangle orientation
02:20.39 Maloeran Must I get this to work with the truck or is there hope of getting proper geometry?
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02:44.21 ``Erik hehehe
02:44.29 ``Erik did I just view the fixed image?
02:44.35 ``Erik <-- curious what the unfixed image looks like
02:45.54 Maloeran Probably the fixed one, yes :)
02:46.09 Maloeran The other one was such a mess, but I didn't spot the error immediately
02:47.51 Maloeran Or http://www.rayforce.net/blend01.png for the engine. I need to raise the eye-candy factor a bit
02:48.31 ``Erik oh neat, they even modelled the throttle body ports
02:48.56 Maloeran Yes, I'm discovering new parts of this truck with transparency
02:51.36 Maloeran Transparency makes rays go through these many inner sectors with > 100 triangles, kind of slow
02:52.04 ``Erik yeah, but that's a needed capability for the practical application
02:52.26 Maloeran Of course. In fact, I'm more complaining about the model than the capability
02:53.01 ``Erik <-- thinks that model is probably pretty representative of the common data set...
02:53.04 ``Erik 'cept a bunch smaller
02:53.04 ``Erik heh
02:53.40 Maloeran There are non-axis aligned tiny tubes made of ~500 long thin triangles everywhere in the engine
02:54.00 Maloeran So tiny, yet so much geometry. In comparison, the haul/frame is all chunky
02:54.13 ``Erik hm, tesselation of the pipe segments?
02:54.42 Maloeran Yes, and these tubes have inner geometry, some kind of weird inner bolts... or narrowing passages
02:56.45 ``Erik 'inner bolts'? hrmmm, you dispose of a good amount of data in your format
02:57.07 ``Erik some of those should be hollow (filled with air, actually, which I don't know if you carried out)
02:57.25 ``Erik and some of those should be filled with metal or fluids
02:57.34 ``Erik (wires and hydraulic lines)
02:57.49 Maloeran I see. Yes, these little tubes are amazingly detailled
02:58.59 ``Erik intersection with those also feed into other algorithms with great effect *shrug* so they matter :)
02:59.07 Maloeran So basically, these innocent looking tubes hurt performance badly at the moment
02:59.13 Maloeran Right :)
02:59.33 Maloeran I'm not really complaining as long as we compare with ADRT on the same data set
02:59.50 ``Erik yeah, I need to get to that, heh
03:00.56 Maloeran No rush, so many optimisations and ideas left to explore..
03:24.40 brlcad ah, i bet they're pipes .. which are actually hollow tubes .. so you're probably seeing the outer cylinder and the inner one twisting through paths
03:24.57 brlcad in fact, in the image you show.. those are indeed pipes
03:25.57 brlcad in implicit form, that's just one extra radius to store for the entire path, so the extra detail comes practically for free
03:26.31 dtidrow brlcad: was MJ in today?
03:26.49 brlcad dtidrow: I don't know, I wasn't
03:27.07 brlcad and I don't see MJ daily.. usually only once a month
03:27.07 dtidrow tried calling, but she must have been out at the time
03:27.16 dtidrow I'll send her an email
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14:29.17 Maloeran Hey Erik, can you ask Lee sometimes if he still want Voxel support in the raytracer? He wasn't sure the last time we met in Baltimore
14:32.05 Maloeran Would just be nice to know to update the schedule
14:32.36 ``Erik if I see him today, sure... his office door was closed when I got my coffee
14:32.46 ``Erik is the transparency stuff committed?
14:33.23 Maloeran It isn't, I got a bunch of optimisation and SSE paths to do first
14:33.42 Maloeran Feel free to test what's in CVS, just to make sure it actually runs this time
14:34.41 ``Erik I just ran it on a quad opteron fbsd, around 40 fps
14:35.14 ``Erik osX crashed on bad memory related to a semaphore
14:35.27 Maloeran Gah! Where?
14:35.32 ``Erik <-- dorking with brlcad at the moment
14:35.45 Maloeran Okay.
14:43.31 ``Erik http://paste.lisp.org/display/32142
14:45.16 Maloeran Thanks
14:49.47 Maloeran Fixed
15:01.16 Maloeran Done. The current transparency demo uses portable scalar pipelines, so it's slow
15:03.40 ``Erik 12-14 on the quad opteron
15:03.55 Maloeran Thought so :)
15:04.01 Maloeran No SSE, no volume tracing, etc.
15:04.29 ``Erik still impressive *shrug*
15:04.53 Maloeran I'm mostly glad that it finally runs flawlessly over there... ... right? :)
15:08.22 ``Erik now I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/32145
15:08.32 ``Erik it was able to prep
15:08.42 ``Erik and threw a few frames up... still yellow
15:10.34 Maloeran Thanks
15:11.05 Maloeran As for the "still yellow" part... Hackish solution would be to put +1 somewhere when on big endian, real solution would be to query SDL on the format of pixels
15:11.15 Maloeran Which I never bothered to do
15:12.17 Maloeran How long does the prep take on the quad opteron?
15:12.42 Maloeran I'm just wondering if threading is of much help, depites all the locking
15:16.05 ``Erik running it now...
15:16.06 Maloeran Second bug is understood, now wondering how did I make such a stupid mistake and the best way to reorganize the code
15:16.41 ``Erik on the 8 core linux opteron, 4 threads runs ~10-12 fps, 8 runs ~18-20 (holding in the initial view)
15:16.57 Maloeran Sounds fine. What about the prep time?
15:17.27 ``Erik running...
15:17.28 Maloeran SSE and volume tracing should double the frame rate or so, for now
15:18.14 ``Erik <-- doing 4 threads on the 4 core fbsd, 8 threads on the 8 core linux, will then recompile with 1 thread (or should it be 0?) and get the 'serial' #'s
15:18.25 ``Erik woops, the linux one crashed
15:18.25 Maloeran 1 thread
15:18.40 Maloeran If you want truly serial, comment out RF_THREADING from config.h
15:18.49 Maloeran Same place? It would make sense
15:20.02 ``Erik http://paste.lisp.org/display/32148
15:20.33 Maloeran 169 seconds you say? :)
15:22.32 ``Erik RF/config.h ?
15:22.42 Maloeran To disable threading, yes
15:23.09 Maloeran Setting the count of threads to 1 in rfdemo.c would have been somewhat similar
15:23.23 ``Erik now I got a gdb hit on the linux box... and don't quite grok why it'd fail.
15:23.29 Maloeran The prep is 12 seconds on this laptop no matter the amount of threads
15:24.03 ``Erik Preparation time : 9.943 seconds
15:25.38 Maloeran Is that astronomical prep time constant with many threads?
15:25.46 ``Erik http://paste.lisp.org/display/32149
15:25.47 Maloeran It's... rather peculiar
15:26.40 ``Erik lemme try it with two threads
15:26.43 Maloeran Okay, seems I got a couple things to fix still
15:28.15 ``Erik two threads gave me 53.403s on the fbsd/quad
15:28.33 Maloeran Ah, messy
15:28.45 Maloeran On the laptop : Serial is 10 seconds, threaded is 12 seconds
15:28.59 Maloeran Could the synchronisation be killing performance that much?
15:29.03 ``Erik how many cores?
15:29.06 Maloeran One
15:29.29 ``Erik so chances are you almost never get a block on lock
15:29.55 ``Erik since you don't do system calls, as long as your critical sections are faster to compute than your scheduled quanta
15:29.58 Maloeran Oh it does, but it doesn't have to flush and reload cache lines constantly because another processor wrote there
15:30.24 ``Erik *shrug*
15:30.34 Maloeran I really wouldn't have thought it could be dramatically *slower* with threads
15:31.43 Maloeran Unless there's some glitch I'm missing, because that's not consistent with my understanding of cache synchronisation
15:31.48 Maloeran It shouldn't be _that_ bad
15:33.21 Maloeran Is it the same thing on Linux? I just want to make sure because that's one OS I know well
15:33.30 ``Erik http://paste.lisp.org/display/32149#1 <-- crash on the mac
15:33.40 ``Erik linux crashes
15:34.20 Maloeran Okay, thanks. I'll fix this mess to begin with
15:35.13 ``Erik but... not... consistantly...
15:35.14 ``Erik hrm
15:38.40 ``Erik hrmph, 8 threads to 12.117, 4 took 10.907, 2 took 9.555, 1 took 10.600
15:38.50 ``Erik that's one sample each, so *shrug* heh
15:39.00 Maloeran Okay, that makes more sense
15:39.08 ``Erik on linux... the 8 and 4 had to be run several times due to crashing
15:39.21 Maloeran Ahaha, right *shivers*
15:45.31 Maloeran Is the non-scalability of pthreads on fbsd the same problem Justin encountered long ago?
15:45.44 Maloeran He had to switch to some non-default library or something
15:46.13 ``Erik um, he was initially using a green threading library
15:46.35 ``Erik so it wasn't taking advantage of multiple cores... the libmap.conf is adjusted so all apps use the thr many-many library now
15:48.34 ``Erik any news on the moving arrangemens, btw?
15:49.53 Maloeran The last news were Survice asking me to fill some form with questions such as if I had ever been part of the Germany Nazi government, participated or organized genocide, etc.
15:52.22 Maloeran I'm not seeing the prep bug, do you have a couple more minutes to stockpile backtraces to throw at me?
15:53.25 Maloeran With all these bugs, I'm astonished I never encounter them
15:55.21 clock_ With all these gay boys, I'm astonished I never encounter them
16:04.51 ``Erik sleep(0); is an interesting device
16:07.31 ``Erik what milestone alterations were ya looking for?
16:08.08 Maloeran Not too sure, let's wait Lee's word on voxels
16:08.59 ``Erik he's right here, he suspects the voxel requirement may go away
16:09.22 Maloeran Oh, good then
16:09.45 ``Erik ...
16:09.46 Maloeran I'm sure spending more time than I would have thought on little bugs I can't reproduce
16:10.57 Maloeran Distributed processing will wait until mere threading is solid
16:17.43 ``Erik heh
16:18.13 ``Erik now that you have firing all the way through, the segment construction should be fairly easy
16:18.42 Maloeran Yes, there isn't much left to code there
16:19.14 ``Erik regression test suite isn't done? having identical execution behavior in a deterministic command might help squash these bugs a lot faster
16:19.36 ``Erik or mebbe it is done, hrm, regtest...
16:20.13 Maloeran It's somewhat done, it runs pre-set tests, log and compare the results
16:21.05 Maloeran It expects a reglogs/ directory with reference images, I don't think I uploaded tghat
16:21.22 Maloeran that, even. Anyhow, it's probably not of much help for the bugs I'm currently looking for
16:22.47 ``Erik have you put abuse on it with valgrind?
16:23.11 Maloeran Yes, I haven't found anything but only tried twice ; it takes minutes to run
16:25.57 Maloeran From my point of view, what remains to be done : Bug squishing, complete support for and test API features, distribute processing, dynamic geometry, optimisation
16:27.52 ``Erik and buttoning up the regression suite, segment stuff, ...
16:28.24 Maloeran Right, segment stuff is part of testing API features
16:36.36 Maloeran Anyhow, I could guess dates, I'm just annoyed at having no idea how much more time hunting thread prep bugs will drain
16:39.46 Maloeran I have the impression it's mostly memory allocation/freeing that hurts performance, it's a global mutex
16:40.02 Maloeran I should allocate and manage blocks per-thread
16:41.13 Maloeran Which would spare the hypertransport bandwidth too, if using Numa to allocate memory in the right banks
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17:59.40 Maloeran Ever used helgrind, Erik? Is it worth downgrading to glibc 2.3, in order to be able to use valgrind 2.2, to be able to use helgrind?
19:12.27 ``Erik 'helgrind'?
19:12.34 ``Erik <-- hasn't even used valgrind, heh
19:22.09 ``Erik heh, I love when twats brag about putting a 'big' drive in their windows box...
19:22.10 ``Erik $ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep '^[0-9]*$' | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | cut -b -5
19:22.10 ``Erik 17.15
19:24.42 Maloeran bc: command not found :(
19:25.35 Maloeran I spent a hour getting a box up to running helgrind, the race condition checker of valgrind
19:25.56 Maloeran And it's worthless, it detects thousands of false-positive because it can't follow the thread logic
19:28.01 ``Erik how the fuck dn't you have bc? it's as basic and fundamental as grep or ls
19:29.51 Maloeran Eh I know, the laptop is a bit minimalist
19:34.36 ``Erik I should get my ultra5 working an ddrop solaris on it and give you an account, heh
19:34.38 ``Erik a real unix.
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19:51.17 ``Erik (if your lappie is something debian based, you could always try "apt-get install bc")
20:12.48 Maloeran Cool Erik, I wouldn't mind another test platform
20:13.12 Maloeran I have accounts on the servers and desktops of friends, and it's all Linux
20:16.51 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:21.21 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:25.46 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c cmd.c): Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:31.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_bot.c wdb_obj.c): Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:35.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c:
20:35.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: the comments around the conditional were entirely unintentional.. from the
20:35.12 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: rt_g.debug to RT_G_DEBUG change that was made in 2001. it's just taken this
20:35.14 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: long before someone actually tried to shoot a bundle of rays with librt (or at
20:35.15 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: least this long for someone to complain about the verbose blather)
20:39.19 Maloeran Ah, nice one :)
20:59.09 ``Erik my u5 is really gutted at the moment... needs disk, memory, and a cpu...
20:59.33 ``Erik <-- thinking it might be cheaper to buy one and use his current one for parts
21:00.56 ``Erik heh
21:00.58 ``Erik http://cgi.ebay.com/SGI-Octane-Dual-195-R10k-Irix-6-5-22_W0QQitemZ250057622638QQihZ015QQcategoryZ11223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
21:01.00 ``Erik there ya go :)
21:16.12 ``Erik http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Microsystems-E450-Server-Quad-400MHz_W0QQitemZ320058948288QQihZ011QQcategoryZ51239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
21:16.13 ``Erik swank
22:35.38 dtidrow_work netsplit :-(
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22:37.52 dtidrow_work wb
22:40.47 brlcad heh
22:40.57 brlcad network funkyness
22:41.26 brlcad ah, heh.. WALLOP christel: Hi all! One of our main rotation servers just dropped off the face of the planet. Hundreds of trained little monkeys are looking to get it back online. Affected users approximately 3500. Thank you for flying
22:41.30 brlcad <PROTECTED>
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22:45.48 dtidrow_work lol
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22:48.22 tofu eep
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23:12.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (helpcomm.tcl mged/help.tcl):
23:12.08 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: fix an mged bug in the various help commands so that they actually work with
23:12.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: more than one command listed (as their own help messages implied they were
23:12.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: capable of). affects help, helplib, and helpdevel which now take zero, one, or
23:12.09 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: more command names.
23:18.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
23:18.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: mged help command now shows help for all args listed. this fixes a bug with the
23:18.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 'help' command where issuing something like 'helpdevel aip hist' would report
23:18.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: the non-existance of the 'aip hist' command. now correctly returns the help for
23:18.53 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: all listed individually as was documented. this issue was reported by an
23:18.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: analyst at arl.
23:51.25 ``Erik damn, gettin' your ass smacked down there :D
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061213

01:37.39 brlcad huh? who wha?
01:39.36 dtidrow_work lol
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01:49.14 Maloeran Erik, by inserting if(!(rand()&0xFF))sleep(0); in every blank line of the prep in all functions, I'm able to reproduce your bugs
01:49.22 brlcad hehe
01:49.50 dtidrow_work is somebody being sarcastic?
01:50.06 brlcad i think he means it
01:56.02 Maloeran Yes I'm serious, nothing less drastic managed to trigger the bug
01:58.58 dtidrow_work crazy
02:52.01 ``Erik heh
02:53.13 ``Erik dti: multithreaded apps that are very cpu bound when running on a single core have a behavior of saturating their quanta (therefore lucking out with exclusive access to the regions that should be locked)
02:53.36 ``Erik but the second you bring that app to a machine with multiple cores and caches, shit goes bad...
02:54.17 ``Erik sleep(0) just surrenders the quanta, so shoving it in some place "weird" can produce some of the side effects you see from having multiple alu's
03:39.06 Maloeran ``Erik, just sleep()s weren't enough, I needed the rand()
03:39.24 Maloeran And I needed a whole lot of them saturated all over the code :)
03:40.40 Maloeran It should be shortly fixed now, so I can finally move on to... actual work
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06:38.42 Maloeran Ah, I just woke up at 2h with the bug in mind and finally understood
06:40.55 Maloeran I'll share the explanation tomorrow if you are curious Erik, that was... subtle. Hrm okay, I'll go sleep on the fix now
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09:56.56 brlcad good times
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15:50.19 Maloeran Gah, death to gprof with its complete lack of support for both threads and dlopen'ed libraries. Writing a profiler with GCC's -finstrument-functions seems so easy anyway
15:50.53 Maloeran Won't be a match for the all mighty Shark, but gprof isn't hard to beat
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16:15.48 brlcad mm.. Shark
16:15.54 brlcad shark is sweet
16:22.40 dtidrow_work ?
16:22.43 dtidrow_work what is it?
16:22.58 Maloeran The OSX profiler, amazingly good
16:42.01 dtidrow_work ah
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16:50.10 brlcad one of the best profilers around, free or otherwise (and it's free)
16:51.59 brlcad part of the apple "CHUD" tools (Computer Hardware Understanding Developer Tools)
16:52.36 ``Erik http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/12/12/allchin/index.php
16:52.37 ``Erik heh
16:54.17 brlcad http://developer.apple.com/tools/shark_optimize.html
16:54.35 brlcad and http://developer.apple.com/tools/sharkoptimize.html
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16:54.49 brlcad and one i've not even tried yet.. http://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/optimizingwithsystemtrace.html
16:57.51 Maloeran I read posts in mailing lists from 1999 to 2006 about gprof/glibc/kernel people blaming each other for the failures of gprof
16:58.03 Maloeran No one agrees on what the "best" way is, so nothing gets done. Lovely!
17:00.12 brlcad shark gets a lot of what it gets, erm most, from the system performance counters on the hardware
17:00.25 brlcad which while not standard on x86 hardware, is on most newer systems
17:00.37 brlcad but still something gprof knows pretty much nothing about
17:01.19 brlcad projects like oprofile seem to be doing better at using the performance counters, but still have a ways to go
17:01.20 Maloeran Yes I know. All I'm asking for is the sum of the time spent in functions, and I can't get that
17:01.45 brlcad oprofile might do that much for you
17:01.52 brlcad http://oprofile.sourceforge.net/about/
17:02.05 Maloeran Oprofile is system-wide and it requires a kernel driver
17:02.24 Maloeran I didn't look further as it seemed overkill and inappropriate
17:02.32 brlcad kernel module, you insmod it
17:02.46 brlcad it gives the numbers you want: http://oprofile.sourceforge.net/examples/
17:03.21 ``Erik is shark on the intel chips yet?
17:03.32 brlcad years ago afaik
17:04.50 Maloeran Hrmph, then it's no good to see the reasons behind the prep's poor scalability
17:05.40 brlcad what's no good?
17:06.11 brlcad the chud tools have been available on the intel macs since the early beta days
17:06.23 Maloeran I mean if Erik can't run it by lack of root
17:06.33 brlcad ahh
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17:07.27 brlcad he probably just needs to make a phone call or send an e-mail and that problem could probably go away
17:10.36 Maloeran Ahah, about the name of the GNU BFD library : "The name came from a conversation David Wallace was having with Richard Stallman about the library: RMS said that it would be quite hard--David said "BFD". Stallman was right, but the name stuck."
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17:13.41 ``Erik interesting, um, view choices
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17:46.24 Maloeran oprofile: configure: error: Unsupported kernel version with 2.6.17
17:47.20 Maloeran Enough of this mess, I'll write a profiler in spare time
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18:32.39 ``Erik commitcommitcommit
18:32.42 ``Erik ho hum
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18:50.25 Maloeran Are you sure it got enough ram for the truck?
18:50.47 Maloeran It doesn't take that much once cached, but the prep climbs high
20:26.48 ``Erik just the file
20:27.29 ``Erik I'd hope a gig is enough... I mean, yeah, it's a slow old machine, but it's a slow old unix machine, not one of these pissant desktop crappers
20:30.53 Maloeran Ah, neat. I'm not qualifying anything with 1gb ram of "crusty old" yet
20:34.15 ``Erik hrm
20:34.31 ``Erik this machine might be as old as your 486 heh
20:35.22 Maloeran Oh :)
20:37.54 ``Erik hm, no, I htink it's only 11 yrs old
20:40.30 ``Erik hrmmmm, which is about when pc's were in the 8-16mb range
20:40.31 ``Erik :)
20:40.43 Maloeran It really amuses me to think that back on that 486, I could barely perform 5-6 fast assembly instructions per pixel to get smooth rendering
20:40.58 Maloeran Now, tracing a ray for every pixel against 260k triangles? Ah, no problem
20:41.10 ``Erik heh
20:41.25 ``Erik you should install 'vice' and code on that some :) I learned a lot on a c64
20:41.59 ``Erik 'kernel' hacking, even, writing mnems (halfway between straight machine code and asm) and pointing the interrupt vector to my new code
20:42.46 Maloeran I love optimisation but I'm not too fond of OS stuff. I had written a primitive 32 bits DOS on that 486
20:43.05 Maloeran It could run *some* DOS software within a very primitive multitasking 32 bits OS
20:45.36 Maloeran I still keep pieces of old code... Hum, my old DOS isometric tile rendering engine with lighting optimized in assembly for 486/Pentium, I got to read that again sometimes
20:46.05 Maloeran :( How so, why?
20:46.13 ``Erik was moving several thousand miles
20:46.29 ``Erik so dumped a lot of unnecessary possessions
20:46.30 Maloeran Well, disks, you can at least bring that
20:46.49 ``Erik yeah, but without the drives and computers, they're useless
20:47.40 Maloeran The time I lost most of my code was when my father "threw" me out of the house for quitting college, many years ago
20:47.47 ``Erik (back then, not only did every os have its own filesystem, but the very nature of disk layout was different bewteen machines and needed their own drives)
20:48.19 ``Erik so even if you wrote an appleII or dos program to read a c64 fs, it'd still just get garbage off of the media
20:48.42 Maloeran Really? I thought it was possible for some drives, not x86 floppy drives though
20:48.45 ``Erik I've seen some hacks for making hw do unnatural things like that, yeah
20:49.03 ``Erik but *shrug* hadn't when I pitched the machines...
20:49.24 ``Erik yard sale, actually, didn't throw them out, heh
20:49.32 ``Erik my mom sold 'em :/
20:49.36 Maloeran You didn't bury them in the woods and marked down the gps coodinates or anything? :)
20:49.40 Maloeran Ew.
20:52.30 Maloeran Ah, old good times on that 486... Adding one fast assembly instruction per pixel could reduce performance by some 20%, that was amusing optimisation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061214

05:48.58 Maloeran Erik, when compiling on x86 without optimisation, GCC doesn't preserve the function stack alignement on 16 bytes so stuff breaks
05:49.19 Maloeran Where should I stick -mpreferred-stack-boundary=4 ?
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14:12.56 ``Erik I'd imagine in autoconf, after checking if it makes sense
14:26.34 ``Erik heh http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/008122.html
14:29.54 Maloeran Weird, weird...
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22:23.41 ``Erik a2/det
22:30.25 Maloeran http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6212716.stm - Impressive little things
23:30.12 dtidrow_work http://www.irf.se/allsky/rtascirf.html - some pretty vivid auroral activity right now :-)
23:33.17 Maloeran Noooo... Curse, I just found a more efficient solution for quad volume tracing, way too many improvements are piled up
23:33.27 Maloeran "The neverending to-do list"
23:35.58 ``Erik heh, mark 'em with priority and deadline to keep 'em straight, dude :)
23:36.25 ``Erik <-- working on a hardcore todolist/projectmgmt program lately o.O
23:36.27 ``Erik for shits&giggles
23:36.31 ``Erik cuz I'm sick int he head
23:36.49 Maloeran Ohh, sounds hardcore indeed
23:37.13 ``Erik heh
23:37.57 ``Erik the coding isn't hardcore, how it treats that and what the goals are (and how they differ from apparently absolutely everything else in the field) is what's interesting :)
23:38.55 ``Erik the ugly guts basically is a realtime scheduler type ting
23:38.56 ``Erik thing
23:39.11 ``Erik with a faggy gui on top for stupid humans
23:39.23 ``Erik instead of being wired into OS process mgmt...
23:39.23 ``Erik :)
23:40.21 Maloeran Ah, I have no project management skills whatsoever, always worked alone and on what I felt like
23:40.32 ``Erik you still have to manage your own time
23:40.51 Maloeran I do? I'm not doing too good at that lately
23:41.01 ``Erik and understand the dependancy graph of what you have to do, and how that feeds into deadlines, resources, etc
23:41.27 ``Erik well, *shrug* I'm not saying anyhting about the quality, but it's still done, even if it's intuitive and entirely in your head
23:41.52 ``Erik personally, I feel like I have 20 zillion little things to take care of with complicated dependancy and context terrain associated...
23:41.57 ``Erik and it depresses me, so I end up doing nothing
23:42.03 Maloeran Ahah
23:42.31 ``Erik so I want a tool to reduce the amount of information I have to cope with in my forebrain
23:43.02 Maloeran Right. I basically scrub that on pieces of paper lying around
23:43.17 ``Erik yeah, heh, I'd have a fucking book
23:43.18 ``Erik :(
23:43.41 Maloeran That bad? Ew.
23:44.43 ``Erik <- involved with dozens of 'projects' at work and dozens away
23:46.53 ``Erik seriously, dude, we need to get some X's in the "done" column so satiate the pointy hairs and purse string holders :)
23:48.32 ``Erik mmmmm, vodka o.O
23:51.28 Maloeran All right, I hope no one is going to complain about performance before I had a chance to go through my neverending to-do list
23:52.00 Maloeran Any clue if Lee expects better performance soon, or he was "satisfied"?
23:54.16 ``Erik um, I'm under the impression that he was amazed at the performance on my desktop
23:54.46 ``Erik well, write it down real quick, like in your todo file
23:55.01 ``Erik see if you can bang out enough to mark off the milestones until now
23:55.10 ``Erik then do the new solution
23:55.42 ``Erik if we both agree that a milestone is "done", then it's done, it doesn't have to be 100% perfect, there's always polish at the end
23:56.15 ``Erik and when it's "all done", we're gonna slap it into some "real" applications, and if it's nifty, more work on it may be requested :)
23:56.42 Maloeran Understood :)
23:57.57 Maloeran Hrm, just to clarify a point, did you mean Lee was amazed at the non-sse transparency?
23:58.10 ``Erik ummmm
23:58.19 ``Erik I think I was running it on the quad opteron fbsd box
23:58.27 Maloeran SSE path was commited today, but it's still lacking optimisation
23:58.34 ``Erik and remote-X to my mac
23:58.55 ``Erik ok, I showed him yesterday or day before
23:59.17 ``Erik I need to get adrt/isst up and running
23:59.34 ``Erik and we need to figure out an appropriate "benchmark" comparison between the two
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061215

00:01.53 Maloeran Agreed, the truck would do
04:30.08 Maloeran Ah, Google Earth has a Linux x86 binary now, it's about time I try that thing
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12:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def:
12:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
12:12.50 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: (mjgillich)
14:07.24 ``Erik "inorder" *snicker*
14:08.27 archivist its a new word
14:09.09 ``Erik even worse than "alot"
15:37.41 ``Erik http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a718aabc2:10f868fb86f:6dca&fr_story=d14603c1e23e6ce37920a8134a2e27b1405a4991&st=1166196732850&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=8&fr=121506_103212_718aabc2x10f868fb86fx6dcb&rdm=718952.4941765041
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16:24.19 clock_ preorder, postorder, inorder - what's wrong on the inorder word?
16:25.21 archivist its a fugly word and should be in-order
16:25.57 clock_ Meine Name ist Guenter Fernseher.
16:26.15 clock_ Germans puts words together without space
16:27.12 archivist german are strange the way they build words
16:36.09 clock_ In Hawaii, do they use a palm tree for a christmas tree?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061216

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061217

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061218

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14:43.23 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: shootray method now sets ray index to zero to avoid confusion with bundle rays
14:44.37 brlcad ahh, so that's why...
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18:30.44 ``Erik *yawn*
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061219

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061219

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20:41.51 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (README.AIX README.IRIX README.VAX README.Windows): Documentation updates/fixes courtesy of Brian Rapp.
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22:57.43 ``Erik linux is as linux does? :D
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061220

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061220

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01:45.36 Maloeran Hey Erik, I understand you spoke to Lee about my "needs" for multi-cache boxes, who spoke to Mark, who came back to me speaking of sending a computer?...
01:46.28 Maloeran Is there some hope of seeing that old box at home of yours put online? That would be easier and less wasteful
02:36.47 ``Erik the sun? that'd take a few hundred bucks to get operational, I think
02:36.56 ``Erik it's been gutted... no cpu, no ram, no drive
02:38.12 ``Erik <-- can't give you an account on any of his work machines due to policy... if mark has access, I d'no if he'd be able to give you an account
03:12.14 Twingy I have an ultra sparc that's operational
03:15.29 Maloeran Neat Justin, how many processors in there?
03:16.56 Maloeran Erik, it's apparently more expensive in man hours to type "adduser" on a box than purchase a new one. I haven't figured that one yet
03:17.40 Twingy 200 MHz ultrasparc 1 w/ 128MB RAM
03:18.50 Maloeran One processor?
03:19.04 Twingy correct
03:19.56 Maloeran Eheh, thanks though unfortunately the point is mostly to be able to test code on many cores
03:20.33 Maloeran To find bugs due to non-shared cache, work on scalability, explore NUMA memory allocation, etc.
03:27.55 Maloeran Ah, Bush considers "more marines" as the solution in Iraq. When will someone explain to him the difference between marines and peacekeepers, social workers?
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21:36.26 ``Erik must be one hell of a breakfast
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23:32.48 Music_Shuffle Hi.
23:32.53 Music_Shuffle Anyone here?
23:33.13 ``Erik nope
23:33.17 Music_Shuffle ./Ding.
23:33.22 Music_Shuffle A quick CAD hardware question.
23:33.53 Music_Shuffle Why is CAD so...demanding?
23:33.59 Music_Shuffle Sorry, was wondering about the phrasing :P
23:34.18 Music_Shuffle Hardware wise.
23:34.18 brlcad you mean just in general?
23:34.21 Music_Shuffle Yeah.
23:34.40 Music_Shuffle Like workstations for CAD have huge amount of RAM, SCSI HDD's, Xeon's, etc, etc.
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23:35.04 Music_Shuffle I've never used CAD software, but I've always wondered why it requires so much...power. For lack ofa better term.
23:35.04 brlcad it's not incredibly demanding, imho, but in general the models are massive and the computation requirements to process those models are more than you have on a workstation
23:35.30 Music_Shuffle Oh, so you're saying that it just ends up being so huge, that regardless of complexity, you need a lot of power just to be able to manipulate it?
23:35.47 brlcad even compared to something like a game, CAD models (at least "real" ones) are intensely more complicated than any gaming model, plenty won't fit onto OpenGL memory
23:36.06 Music_Shuffle Err...more complicated how?
23:36.11 brlcad right, manipulation, visualization, consistency/topology checking
23:36.37 Music_Shuffle Oh right, because the game physics don't have to actually WORK.
23:36.39 ``Erik I d'no if I'd call a xeon a workstation
23:36.39 Music_Shuffle Mm.
23:36.48 Music_Shuffle Why not? >.>
23:36.48 brlcad well in a game, you only have to care that something looks nice -- there's lots of tricks to get that result -- in CAD you have all that same external detail, if not more, as well as all of the internal geometry
23:37.01 ``Erik in general, "workstations" historically have bunches of ram and scsi disk, been that way since workstations were kinda born...
23:37.03 brlcad which might be wires, bolts, nuts, pipes, engine blocks, etc
23:37.13 ``Erik wintel boxes and other "home toys" were HIGHLY abnormal in the grand scheme of things
23:37.45 Music_Shuffle So most of today's CAD systems run what?
23:38.01 ``Erik huh?
23:38.20 Music_Shuffle CPU-wise. Is it mostly Xeons, Opterons, any specific?
23:38.46 ``Erik most have a set of archs they run on... x86 tending to be included these days
23:39.18 brlcad also when you're dealing with solid modeling CAD, which is a subset of CAD but one of the largest domains, the software has an additional workload of repeatedly evaluating the geometry to make sure it's topologically sound, that parametric contraints are upheld/updated if they exist, that overlaps/interferences are detected, that you don't end up with non-solid geometry
23:39.47 ``Erik too many syllables, I'm on vacation o.O :D back to simpsons for me
23:39.56 Music_Shuffle Lol!
23:40.04 archivist and interference checking
23:40.09 Music_Shuffle Oh ok.
23:40.42 Music_Shuffle So pretty much its caused by needing to model reality in its entirety using software.
23:41.20 archivist oops missed it
23:41.37 ``Erik I mean, graphic artists (like the people making posters and books and stuff) tend to have gobs of ram on their desktop
23:42.06 brlcad i wish these laptops went higher than 2GB.. i'm constantly out of memory
23:42.12 ``Erik brlcad: how many gigs did you blow over with a typesetting program?
23:43.40 ``Erik (and video games tend to punt on huge parts of the dataset to make it usable on lesser systems... I mean, take a look at 'roam' and 'vipm' and how they are designed to page off of disk so only the closest stuff is a high LOD)
23:43.52 ``Erik especially roam o.O heh
23:44.14 Music_Shuffle lol
23:44.27 ``Erik not to mention other hacks like faking normals on highly decimated meshes so they kinda sorta appear more complex
23:44.37 brlcad swap is currently at just under 15GB.. looks like the book i'm working on is using up a little over 3GB
23:45.00 Music_Shuffle Fif...teen?
23:45.04 ``Erik (it's all moving, so the human brain fixes the fuckups in videogames... in manufacturing or analysis, the fuckups are unacceptable)
23:45.34 Music_Shuffle Right, that nasty bit about stuff breaking, falling, going boom, etc.
23:46.20 brlcad yep, 15... and I don't even have a CAD model open right now .. that'd be a few more GB to worry about :)
23:46.47 Music_Shuffle Mmm...what do you do with 15 gigs of swap? >_<
23:46.53 Twingy <PROTECTED>
23:47.35 brlcad though mged is pretty light on the memory usage overhead.. uses just a little more in memory than it takes to store it on disk, maybe 2X-10X disk size if it's going to be analyzed or raytraced, depending on the model
23:48.38 brlcad Music_Shuffle: mostly a ton of image processing right now -- putting together a print-quality book, lots of high-resolution imagery, several image processing apps in the workflow
23:48.48 Music_Shuffle Ahh ok
23:48.51 Music_Shuffle You're writing a book? :o
23:49.05 brlcad and of course this terminal running an irc client.. gotta be adding at least 10MB to the mix *ahem*
23:49.06 ``Erik "20 years of playboy centefolds"
23:49.13 brlcad woot
23:49.19 Music_Shuffle Lol
23:49.22 ``Erik that's the book, right? :D
23:49.24 brlcad hmm.. 20 years..
23:49.45 ``Erik 240 girls too much?
23:50.05 ``Erik I mean, a couple pages each... sounds like a lovely coffee table book...
23:50.12 ``Erik perfect gift for friends and family
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061221

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00:15.36 ``Erik "cad uses more ram than quake, wwwaaaahhhhhhhh"
00:15.38 ``Erik *cougH*
00:15.39 ``Erik O:-)
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03:23.05 Maloeran Ah, a torrent website figures out in the top 10 search terms of Google
03:25.31 brlcad heh
03:28.27 Twingy woo woo woo woo *bonks brlcad on the head 3 stooges style*
04:12.16 brlcad knyuck knyuck knyuck wise-guy, eh?
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16:01.03 ``Erik o.O
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061223

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061224

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16:14.23 ``Erik hah
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061225

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16:35.43 Maloeran Merry monday and a happy new week!
16:43.51 Maloeran On this special day, let's hope and rationalize on dreams of harmony between managers and programmers in the troubled regions of our world
16:47.36 ``Erik and happy hellidays and all that :)
16:49.20 ``Erik oh, btw, from some quick&dirty testing, you're in the neighborhood of 40x faster (I haven't done a REAL benchmark comparison, just pulled some quick numbers... different geometry, but I think it's reasonably similar in occlusion and complexity)... bear in mind, you'll slow down once you put in hooks for distributed
16:49.43 Maloeran 40 times faster than the old libRT?
16:49.51 ``Erik I'm rigging up a fbsd box with a funny compiler and X in a funny place, just to see what happens when I try to build all the ports
16:49.52 ``Erik adrt
16:50.02 Maloeran 40 times faster than adrt? What the...
16:50.06 ``Erik librt gets 30krps on a good day, heh
16:50.50 Maloeran I'm writing state synchronisation at the moment, for distributed processing. Distributed processing shouldn't be too much of a hit with (very) good bandwidth
16:50.50 ``Erik quick and dirty numbers.. may be a whole order of magnitude off ;) I was looking at some old scalability graph info
16:51.16 ``Erik how good is "(very) good"? gigE? ib? myri?
16:51.24 ``Erik or does 100base count?
16:51.47 Maloeran It all depends of the task, how much data there is to send back to the master node ; just raw pixels, or intersection coordinates and so on?
16:52.04 Maloeran Raw pixels shouldn't scale too bad with some compression
16:52.49 Maloeran I'm still working on state synchronisation, so that all operations on the state of the master node is propagated to the other nodes ; any new node can connect to the master at any time too, and its state is sync'ed
16:52.50 ``Erik ummmm, I'm not sure... the end application kinda needs in and out coordinates, with their component
16:53.17 Maloeran But what for? Can't it use these coordinates on the remote node, and just send back the result?
16:53.53 Maloeran Sending results of computations based on the raytracing is clearly _much_ lighter, usually
16:53.54 ``Erik it's supposed to be integrated easily with another app... which expects a segment list
16:54.05 ``Erik obviously, but it has to talk with a brain dead app
16:54.10 Maloeran Can't this other app run its "shader" code remotely?
16:54.23 ``Erik nope
16:54.30 ``Erik :/ it's retarded
16:54.32 Maloeran Transfering raw raytracing results will kill performance badly
16:54.38 Maloeran Gah! Rewrite that :p
16:54.40 ``Erik it tries to be the center of the universe
16:54.44 ``Erik not mine to rewrite... heh
16:54.57 ``Erik the, uh, horror project was an attempt to rewrite it
16:55.04 Maloeran Oh, I see
16:55.05 ``Erik brlcad isn't dumb enough to touch it ;)
16:55.29 ``Erik we did put some of the, um, application into adrt and got really good results
16:56.00 ``Erik naturally, that'll be something to try down the road with rayforce... but the way we got the pointy hairs to sign off and throw money was by talking the retarded language of the retarded... people...
16:56.01 ``Erik :)
16:56.20 Maloeran Eh, typical :)
16:56.33 ``Erik that's the real world for ya, dude :(
16:56.37 Maloeran The code lying on top of rayforce must be fixed to be distributed too, seriously
16:56.50 ``Erik um
16:56.54 ``Erik it, uhhh, sorta kinda is...
16:56.56 Maloeran You can't distribute half of the processing and expect good results, transfering all half-way results back to the master node
16:57.06 ``Erik but it was done by the same dude who did the distributed processing for the hell project
16:57.23 ``Erik so the scalability goes to about 2 nodes... 3 nodes costs more th an 1
16:57.24 Maloeran That's what I'm writing state sync'ing for in mind, intelligent use of the library
16:57.29 ``Erik from what I'm told
16:57.46 Maloeran Ah, sounds like my model prep threads :), I'll fix that though
16:57.50 ``Erik (and the hell project... 2 nodes costs more than 1)
16:57.55 Maloeran Ahahahaha
16:57.59 ``Erik except the app is almost totally distributable...
16:58.14 Maloeran That is so wrong
16:58.25 ``Erik the "hard part" that he couldn't figure out was ordering the results for the output... and, y'know... dir... catch 'em out of order and bin them in a tree or something
16:59.08 ``Erik it's a sad state of affairs
16:59.13 ``Erik but, y'know, fuck it, I'm on vacation
16:59.25 Maloeran I have no idea what the horror project is actually meant to do, but it really has to be properly re-written, in real programming languages by competent people
17:01.27 ``Erik hm, doesn't even need to be properly re-written, or in a real programming language... I did a day hack on librt that was outrunning the original C version and the new java version by several orders of magnitude...
17:01.36 ``Erik using... librt... the slow csg one... :D
17:01.37 Maloeran Seriously, I'm writing state synchronisation for intelligent use of the library, where the user will run "shaders" remotely and return packed high-level results ; this is not low-level distributed processing, where rays are traced remotely and results returned
17:01.46 Maloeran That would use soooo much bandwidth, it's unthinkable
17:02.32 ``Erik I'm thinking when I get back to the office, I'll have to write a lame 'workalike' to the retarded app and wire rf and adrt into it
17:02.48 ``Erik something I can give you so you can see what data needs moved around
17:03.37 ``Erik <-- doesn't go back until the 9th though
17:04.19 Maloeran I see, okay. "Vacation" or "work" are pretty much the same to me
17:05.00 ``Erik used to be for me... *shrug*
17:05.19 ``Erik I went and got old... I have personal projects to do in my 'vacation' time :)
17:05.58 Maloeran Ah such pretexes, I'm sure it's just that the work projects aren't interesting enough :)
17:05.58 ``Erik generally not little "tweak it for a few % gain" stuff, but good old forward thinking stuff... gotta keep it very seperate, so if I decide to try to make some $'s, there's no issues ;)
17:06.45 ``Erik and, yeah, I steer towards very high level languages... harder to tweak, but hard problems become easy and impossible ones become tractable O:-D
17:07.28 Maloeran Pfft :), assembly gets so easy to debug with some practice *cough*
17:08.07 Maloeran I look forward to writing assembly pipelines, eventually, I want my extra 20-30%
17:08.18 ``Erik yeah, but take a skilled person in asm vs a skilled person in, say, scheme or lithp... or smalltalk... or erlang... or ml...
17:08.30 ``Erik give a task, see who has a working solution first
17:09.07 ``Erik if I can do in a few weeks what'd take a decade in asm, fuck, I'll do it in a few weeks... and the problems that interest me tend NOT to be cpu bound
17:09.09 ``Erik :)
17:09.35 Maloeran :) Sure, I know
17:09.51 ``Erik <-- exploring huge scheduling stuff with hierarchal notions and dependancies
17:10.01 Maloeran Even for "high-level" tasks, I hardly move away from C though, it's just too fluent in comparison to my Lisp
17:10.13 ``Erik and adequate graph reduction to keep the working set tiny
17:10.30 ``Erik obviously you know that fluency can only be gained and retained by exercise :)
17:10.58 Maloeran I know :), but C has the upper hand in performance, and I'm not sure Lisp would be that much faster to write
17:11.10 ``Erik in that case, you should write fortran code
17:11.15 Maloeran Since I already got so much C code I reuse for everyhing related to memory management, and so on
17:11.22 ``Erik heh
17:11.41 ``Erik lithp does its own memory management... your C is superfluous.
17:11.52 Maloeran I would bet mine is faster
17:11.59 ``Erik mebbe
17:12.12 ``Erik lisp compilers tend to make pretty tight memory pools
17:12.38 ``Erik I wouldn't be surprised if your memory stuff was fairly similar to a lot of memory stuff in lisp, scheme, perl, etc
17:13.06 ``Erik you might have an advantage by JUST pooling and not doing gc
17:13.07 Maloeran Perhaps so, but the memory management part is solved either way
17:13.31 ``Erik well, actually, you do reference counting
17:13.42 ``Erik so technically, you do have gc... you just blow up if you go cyclic
17:13.48 ``Erik blow up or permanently l eak
17:14.14 Maloeran That's a code flaw easily tracked and fixed
17:15.01 Maloeran Understood, hence why C performs better and why I use it
17:15.13 Maloeran If we had Lisp chips, I might well switch over
17:15.24 ``Erik be interesting to see a high level language designed by someone with intimate knowledge of modern hw
17:15.38 ``Erik C is very tightly bound to the pdp11 chip, dude
17:15.55 Maloeran Personally, I use whatever language maps to the underlying hardware well, delivering proper performance and control
17:16.11 ``Erik lisp was pretty rocking on certain pdp's where "complex" operations were single clock
17:16.18 ``Erik like, car/cdr pairs
17:16.22 ``Erik just a register access
17:16.27 Maloeran car/cdr?
17:16.31 ``Erik cons? one load
17:16.44 ``Erik umm, yeah?
17:16.54 ``Erik uhhhhhhhh, "head" and "tail"?
17:17.08 ``Erik (car '(a b c)) -> a
17:17.13 Maloeran Ah yes, as in Lisp
17:17.16 ``Erik (cdr '(a b c)) -> '(b c)
17:17.21 Maloeran I was thinking of assembly instruction names
17:17.26 ``Erik they, uh
17:17.27 ``Erik are
17:17.31 ``Erik assembly instruction names
17:17.32 ``Erik ...
17:17.36 ``Erik on the pdp1
17:17.39 Maloeran *nods* Not on the archs I know :)
17:17.41 ``Erik or was it 8
17:18.22 Maloeran Really, your position is that Lisp would be great if the chips were meant for it, and I don't contest that
17:18.22 ``Erik basically addressing like ah and al out of an ax, if you can stomach my archaic 16b 386 terminology
17:18.33 Maloeran But reality is a bit different these days...
17:18.42 ``Erik my position is ALSO that C would be great if the chips were meant for it
17:18.47 ``Erik and I don't think the chips are meant for it
17:19.01 Maloeran Chips are a lot closer to C than Lisp, at least
17:19.16 ``Erik I'm not so sure about that
17:19.21 Maloeran C with GCC's built-in pseudo-functions, C extensions and intrinsics is fairly decent
17:19.35 ``Erik naive implementations of lisp and C, the c will probably come out a fair bit better
17:20.11 ``Erik but it's a translation problem, one that is unfortunately being worked on by more C people than other language people
17:20.11 Maloeran Compilers aren't known to ever do a great job, no matter the language
17:20.13 ``Erik *shrug*
17:20.34 ``Erik and cpu run time is kinda a fairly minor aspect of the cost of computing, anyways
17:21.11 Maloeran That's highly variable, but I always played with cpu intensive code, personally
17:21.28 ``Erik so you're in an odd niche :)
17:21.44 Maloeran I'm fine with that :)
17:22.12 ``Erik most code these days sits around with its thumb up its ass waiting for the stupid human to respond
17:22.27 ``Erik and another large bulk of code is ran very infrequently, maybe once ever...
17:22.53 ``Erik spending developer time doing petty bookkeeping with C or asm is... illogical in those situations
17:23.03 Maloeran Agreed, of course
17:23.35 ``Erik use something that gets a working product to the machine as quickly as possible... unfortunately, too many people lock themselves into a certain tract of programming and don't explore adequately...
17:24.03 ``Erik too many java programmers don't know jack shit about C, so they don't understand how to use the machine in funny ways to make things easy and simple
17:24.10 Maloeran I'm interested by computers for doing intense processing for simulations or other number crunching, pretty bookkeeping does not interest me the slightest
17:24.37 ``Erik and too many C programmers never gain a strong fluency in something like lithp, so they never understand the fu of real macros or full number towers
17:25.12 ``Erik dude, you write a memory mgmt library... you're trying to work to abstract the petty bookkeeping
17:25.13 ``Erik :)
17:25.22 Maloeran This elegance can get in the way of efficiency too
17:25.26 ``Erik and walking right into greenspuns 10th law in the process
17:25.32 ``Erik *shrug*
17:25.47 ``Erik I'd rather write a program really quickly in a high level language...
17:25.55 ``Erik figure out how I can make the algorithms better to make it faster
17:26.05 ``Erik and THEN start reducing the 'expensive' parts to lower languages
17:26.11 ``Erik like portabe pdp assembly, er, uh, I mean, C
17:26.11 Maloeran It isn't always about processor time efficiency, there are Java programs eating gigabytes of ram
17:26.23 ``Erik heh, true... that's just... wrong
17:26.38 ``Erik java is an excellent example of how to do everything wrong
17:26.45 Maloeran Eheh, exactly
17:26.46 ``Erik almost as bad as c#
17:27.43 ``Erik <-- notes that lisp lived in a land where 4k of ram was considered huge, with heavy computation theory background... calling java up as a counter argument is just a low blow and wrong
17:28.10 Maloeran Ahah
17:28.36 ``Erik :)
17:28.56 Maloeran Ew.. Yes I noticed that. You'll find me weird, but I'm not comfortable with any language where I can't be sure what assembly the compiler will spit out
17:29.26 Maloeran I like writing C, look at any chunk of assembly and know exactly where I am in the software
17:29.37 ``Erik you can see the output of lithp in asm or machine code if you want
17:29.51 Maloeran Sure, I don't think I'm neglecting algorithmic optimisations
17:29.54 ``Erik lithp is primarily a compiled language, if all else fails, hit it with a decompiler
17:30.05 ``Erik and I use some scheme compilers that output C
17:30.06 ``Erik *shrug*
17:30.14 ``Erik don't confuse the language with the evaluation mechanism :D
17:31.07 ``Erik (of course, chicken's C output is eye bleeding horrible, heh... good&naive... gcc doesn't seem too upset about it, though)
17:32.07 Maloeran Eh now, the output of properly written C isn't that bad :)
17:32.37 Maloeran Compilers remain stupid, but considering the amount of work that has been put in GCC, I don't expect other non-gcc languages to perform better
17:33.19 ``Erik heh, but I could put a trivial amount of effort into an assembler
17:33.28 ``Erik and it could perform better, provided a competent assembly programmer
17:33.30 ``Erik :)
17:33.47 ``Erik and I still view assembyl as fairly compiled, I used to do mnems on the c64 o.O
17:34.23 Maloeran Indeed, but Lisp is farther than C from assembly considering the current hardware ; more work for the compiler = poorer code
17:34.37 ``Erik I don't know about that
17:35.03 Maloeran So much work put in GCC, yet it just seems to stupid sometimes... I really have the impression I could write better
17:35.17 Maloeran It isnt the optimisation that bothers me, it's all the higher-level parsing and stuff
17:35.38 Maloeran so* stupid
17:35.42 ``Erik I'm not big on common lisp... but lisp 1.5 has almost every single language component being a single fast opcode, I think
17:36.03 ``Erik scheme has a good deal of that... but the way it's all written these days... :/
17:36.29 ``Erik a compiler to bytecode and a biteocde interpreter... written in C... usually not very well..
17:36.36 ``Erik which doesn't map cleanly to the machine
17:36.58 ``Erik mebbe if I get time, I'll try to write a tight scheme->ml compiler for amd64 or something :)
17:37.07 ``Erik ml as in machine language, not sml or ocaml
17:37.33 Maloeran I'm secretly pleased that processor speeds are hitting a ceiling, perhaps people will rediscovere the value of efficient languages
17:37.40 Maloeran rediscover*
17:38.11 ``Erik nah, the notion of vectorization is coming back into fad...
17:38.17 ``Erik can't make 'em faster, so mkae more of 'em...
17:38.25 ``Erik pentium6 now with 1024 cores!
17:38.38 Maloeran There's a big problem with that : it doesn't scale
17:38.49 ``Erik vector computers in the 70's could do 4x4 matrix mults in one clock :/
17:39.06 Maloeran The more cores you have, the more in-cache synchronisation you require, it gets messy
17:39.14 ``Erik it doesn't scale because: hw sucks. and programmers suck.
17:39.14 ``Erik :)
17:39.26 Maloeran Yes, instruction-level vectorization is great, but that's fairly low-level
17:39.37 Maloeran Hence the added value to all low-level languages
17:39.53 ``Erik only cuz the compiler writers... well... suck :D
17:40.10 Maloeran Pfft, C has got all I need on that aspect :)
17:40.55 Maloeran Our current x86/amd64 architectures are soo not meant to scale by adding new cores/processors
17:41.25 ``Erik definitely not
17:41.54 ``Erik I d'no much about amd64, but the x86 is a grotesque pile of shit with hacks built on it, shoulda died in the 70's
17:42.07 Maloeran Which isn't a bad thing : we will be forced to leave x86 behind definitely, I hope!
17:42.33 ``Erik ppc even has cruft and lameness built on, but it's *SO* much nicer
17:42.46 Maloeran I want my arrays of 256 processors at 400mhz with a proper architecture to scale
17:43.05 ``Erik I enjoyed the 6510 monitor/mnems... hated 386 asm... but really really liked r2k asm
17:43.25 ``Erik 'proper arch' like numa?
17:43.33 ``Erik hypercube?
17:43.39 ``Erik or something 'new'?
17:43.48 Maloeran Numa works somewhat, but I don't think it scales too well at a point
17:43.49 ``Erik smp seems awful coarse
17:44.09 ``Erik and if we have a metric assload of cores, why not go assymetric?
17:44.14 Maloeran For each processor, the cache synchronisation circuitry keeps growing with the total count of processors
17:44.23 Maloeran Exactly
17:44.27 ``Erik yeah, I dedicated one of my 128 procs to manage the data motion... but... y'know? so what?
17:45.25 Maloeran Personally, I would be an advocate of software-based memory and cache synchronisation
17:45.53 Maloeran Let the programmer, the software manage memory ; it's too much complex circuitry for the hardware, it can't scale
17:46.00 ``Erik I d'no.. hw mmu's made vm pracical
17:46.03 ``Erik practical
17:46.31 ``Erik and in the 60's, ibm's cpu's were microcode vm beasties, and amdhal made custom chips that smoked teh ibm things bigtime
17:47.00 ``Erik (and yes. I really really dig computer history. A lot. I don't think you can really move forward until you REALLY understand the past.)
17:47.45 Maloeran I agree with MMU, I'm just saying the software should explicitgely do "put X into that large shared memory bank so other processors will access it"
17:48.03 Maloeran Rather than have the other processors ask "Hey, has anyone got that in their cache? Is that copy up-to-date?"
17:48.16 Maloeran explicitely*
17:48.52 Maloeran Each processor with its own memory, one or several shared memory banks, perhaps different levels
17:49.40 Maloeran Software would have to be written differently in all aspects related to memory management, but that would scale as well as it can get
17:59.26 Maloeran Dumb example : 256 processors, each got its memory bank X, each group of 16 processors has a shared bank Y, and a bank Z on top of all Y. All processors can DMA to/from the shared memory banks asynchroneously
18:03.13 ``Erik hrm, y and z seem... silly... ever built hw?
18:04.41 Maloeran How else would you scale shared memory?
18:05.10 ``Erik (actually,if you look at an mmu on an smp system... each alu has its cache... if the data it needs isn't in its cache... it asks the next level... whihc, y'know, migh be l2 or might be main memory... or might by disk drive... so I guess it already does that, heh)
18:05.18 ``Erik but every time you write to memory
18:05.23 ``Erik it has to tell the l1
18:05.25 ``Erik and then the l2
18:05.28 ``Erik and then main memory
18:05.33 ``Erik until there's a shared universal vm
18:05.58 Maloeran But what if the up-to-date cache line isn't in main memory but in another processor cache?
18:06.06 ``Erik um
18:06.07 Maloeran That's a big issue on the non-scalability
18:06.10 ``Erik if...
18:06.13 ``Erik you write... memory...
18:06.19 ``Erik it has to... IMMEDIATELY to all the way out
18:06.36 ``Erik and the 'all the way out' (universal vm) cant' have other things dicking with it at the time
18:07.00 ``Erik which is why you need a machine with multiple cores, so you can feel the pain firsthand :D
18:07.26 Maloeran Got 2 cores with shared cache, eh well. I'll get something soon
18:07.53 ``Erik it'd be rare that two cores with shared cache stomp on eachother TOO much
18:07.57 Maloeran Trying to get SURVICE to switch over to direct deposit to avoid the 1 month delay for U.S. check deposit, then I could get it in a few days
18:08.20 ``Erik something with multiple cores... something SLOW with multiple cores would help exasperate the issue
18:08.28 Maloeran They still have to ensure coherency, due to the hardware rather than software synchronisation
18:08.50 ``Erik mmu has such a notion :)
18:08.56 ``Erik it's the gatekeeper of memory
18:08.56 Maloeran If the hardware was to expect the software to explicitely state when something must imperatively be shared, we wouldn't have that problem
18:10.05 Maloeran And a big memory bank with too many cores playing in it can't please any memory controller
18:10.20 Maloeran Hence the idea of a bank per processor, plus shared banks
18:11.48 Maloeran Hardware synchronisation makes it easy for the programmers, but it isn't friendly to hardware scalability at all
18:13.11 ``Erik hw isn't magic, dude.. fo rthe most part, it just does what the os says
18:13.46 Maloeran Hardware synchronisation between cpu caches isn't up to the OS
18:13.54 ``Erik I mean, yeah, throw a lock, it goes down to the mmu
18:13.57 ``Erik and it's reserved
18:14.06 ``Erik uhmmm, no, it's facilitated by the os
18:14.28 ``Erik it's up to the threading capability... pthreads in your case :)
18:14.46 ``Erik if it was all up tto the hw, you'd never have locking issues or funky multi-threading bugs
18:15.02 ``Erik throw the mmu lock by grabbing a mutex or something
18:15.08 ``Erik dick with the memory
18:15.30 ``Erik reads might be short, but iirc, writes are long
18:16.04 ``Erik hrm
18:16.12 ``Erik I'd have to re-read the material to remember
18:17.08 ``Erik been too long :)
18:17.14 Maloeran Perhaps so should I, but from my current knowledge, the current cache synchronisation between processors is a huge problem for scalability
18:19.01 Maloeran The more total processors and memory banks you have in a Numa design, the more hypertransport links _each_ processor requires
18:19.15 ``Erik ok, hypertransport is newer
18:19.36 ``Erik but in old smp, the main memory was the primary information bridge... (the universal vm, actually... might be in swap)
18:20.05 ``Erik so when you write, it has to fall all the way through to main memory...
18:20.15 ``Erik hrm
18:20.18 ``Erik now I'm confusing myself
18:20.19 ``Erik o.O
18:21.53 Maloeran We should write some raytracing hardware to clear things up, and accidentally design the future's memory model
18:22.26 ``Erik hrm
18:22.36 ``Erik ingo et al may've beaten you to that
18:22.37 ``Erik :)
18:23.11 ``Erik dr ingo wald... has a co iirc
18:23.39 ``Erik openrt
18:23.49 Maloeran Ah, doesn't mean we can't do better :)
18:24.08 ``Erik heh
18:24.14 ``Erik one thing I learned a while back
18:24.20 ``Erik ther'es always someone there to do better
18:25.06 Maloeran Is that an excuse not to do anythingy? :)
18:25.11 Maloeran anything, rather
18:25.40 ``Erik of course not
18:25.52 ``Erik it's a reason to always do the best you can quickly, and always look for new horizons
18:26.06 ``Erik stagnation will finish you :)
18:26.17 ``Erik always strive to learn more, do more, be more...
18:26.17 ``Erik :)
18:27.19 Maloeran Or just strive to enjoy life, hoping these will naturally come as side-effects
18:27.39 ``Erik perhaps
18:27.40 ``Erik heh
18:27.47 ``Erik honestly, that may be the path I'm more o n
18:27.50 ``Erik more on
18:27.53 ``Erik <-- moron o.O
18:28.14 ``Erik or perhaps my goals are slightly less grandiose
18:30.04 Maloeran To me, raytracing hardware would be really fun and new, any other objectives are a pretext
18:30.33 Maloeran Pretexes that management might prefer to "It looks fun!"
18:31.39 Maloeran Plus, we would have abundant time to argue about scalable memory models
19:08.48 Twingy I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!
19:52.57 *** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-98-172.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
23:25.19 Maloeran I think it's the first time I can ride a bicycle wearing just a shirt to attend christmas social gatherings
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061226

03:07.52 Twingy s/humans/carbon based life forms?
06:19.31 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:02.43 ``Erik heh
16:09.35 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
17:27.16 Twingy Robotic Deer to Fight Illegal Hunting
17:27.24 Twingy ...
17:32.56 ``Erik does it shoot back?
17:33.19 ``Erik cuz that'd be kinda gnarly
17:33.31 ``Erik heh, milton would come into work all bandaged up :D
17:34.02 Maloeran Also disturbing : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6209613.stm
17:35.22 ``Erik heh
17:37.50 Maloeran I'm trying to understand how the thing can be that slow, getting there slowly
17:37.53 ``Erik hahahahaha
17:38.12 ``Erik starting to understand the stupid at the lab? :D
17:38.31 Maloeran I guess you could put it that way :)
17:38.35 ``Erik call stacks so deep, they might as well be bottomless, repacking of data for shits and giggles, ...
17:38.50 Maloeran And constant memory allocation/freeing... to shoot a single ray!
17:39.09 Maloeran Memory allocation and free()ing just for _one_ ray!
17:39.22 ``Erik uh huh
17:39.29 ``Erik memory pools? what are those?
17:39.43 ``Erik oh, but hell project is ALL about resource pools, the opposite extreme
17:39.50 Maloeran Ahah
17:40.06 ``Erik want to send data? don't keep your own socket... get one from the pool! oh, and when you've sent your FUCKING FOUR BYTES, put it back in the pool!
17:40.44 Maloeran Ah, cool
17:41.24 ``Erik I'll be, uh, very not here for the next week
17:41.25 ``Erik :)
17:41.42 Maloeran Girlfriend?
17:41.47 ``Erik mmhmm
17:42.18 brlcad erm
17:42.25 brlcad librt doesn't repack data
17:42.44 ``Erik heh
17:42.45 ``Erik s2 sure does
17:42.46 brlcad maybe some specific app foo does
17:42.53 brlcad s2 does
17:43.26 brlcad comparing what s2 does to an optimized ray-tracer isn't even apples to oranges
17:43.38 ``Erik if it were built as a 'shader' and ran inside of a brlcad app, it'd be pretty damn fast, evne on librt
17:43.58 ``Erik rf has to feed s2 :( that's how we got wendy to sign off on it, iirc
17:44.10 Maloeran What is s2?
17:44.29 ``Erik the old important app, the one the hell project is supposed to replace
17:44.37 brlcad sure it'll eventually feed it, so yeah most of the performance benefit is going to get slaughtered
17:44.48 brlcad but it'll still be an improvement for many cases
17:45.04 Maloeran Any hope of just fixing/rewriting that s2 thing?
17:45.37 ``Erik not really... twingy rewrote the build system to be MUCH better, and they didn't understand it, so they didn't accept it
17:45.42 brlcad Maloeran: it's really not that simple -- there are a couple decades of feature-packing in there that has to be replicated
17:46.00 brlcad any rewrite, even the one being attempted, can't replace that functionality in any time reasonbly soon
17:46.15 brlcad akin to rewriting any major code base
17:46.24 ``Erik they also fought plugging adrt into it tooth and nail... like, they compiled adrt with floats, librt with doubles, and refused to acceptt adrt because the output numbers weren't bit identical... durrrr
17:46.26 brlcad it's rather naive to think it just takes a simple rewrite
17:47.09 ``Erik dude, I think 90% of that project is unnecessary fluff, crap left over from dirty hacks that just dont' get used... based on mrb output and talking to analysts, it might really be a 'simple rewrite' :(
17:47.10 Maloeran I see, I just have no idea what s2 or the hell project exist for
17:48.10 brlcad ``Erik: in all fairness, though, all of the differences WEREN'T just float/double fuzz -- the behavior hadn't been verified and a couple real issues were found (i.e. honest differences in behavior)
17:48.25 ``Erik ok, the float vs double one really REALLY got under my skin
17:48.29 brlcad that kind of stuff just can't happen for that code
17:48.39 Maloeran You will find serious differences in behavior and results with rayforce too
17:48.41 ``Erik because she (km) said that the problem 'disappeared' when she compiled adrt with double
17:49.01 brlcad that was one case, there were other issues
17:49.07 ``Erik but she HAD to to hunt down the cause for the difference! it was a whole .001 mm!
17:49.15 ``Erik <-- strusfrated with some of their bs :)
17:49.18 brlcad some were issues just being masked that were different behaviors
17:49.56 brlcad Maloeran: to be expected to various degrees -- but they have to be explainable other than hand waving
17:50.05 ``Erik obviously, the values wont' be the exact same, they cope with things differently... I'm just irked because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter...
17:50.14 brlcad at least if the differences are significant
17:50.36 ``Erik I mean, it's all grotesque punting, the just cling to regression numbers because they don't understand the algorithms or reasoning
17:50.41 ``Erik grar.
17:50.50 Maloeran brlcad: Right, but a part of that is based on the ray cutting into segments, and the different intersection code with triangles ; you lose a bit of precision on the way
17:51.03 brlcad he was done with adrt, at that time it really was a lot of hand waving going on, and they were understandably not satisfied imho
17:51.08 Maloeran The differences should just be properly handled for them not to matter
17:51.13 ``Erik and ch seems like the only one with his feet under him... km a tiny bit, but *sigh*... and they gave them that poor java coder hehehe
17:51.48 ``Erik <-- not impressed with that crew :/
17:51.59 ``Erik also, I'm a strusfrated bitter person for anything up that alley :)
17:52.22 brlcad there's plenty to complain about with respect to s2, but their demands of having to validate any change are a good one in general -- even if they do or don't understand what's going on
17:52.47 ``Erik their stance of not ACCEPTING any change, whether or not it's valid or makes sense, isn't excusable
17:53.07 brlcad Maloeran: most of the "significant" differences aren't just precision in itself, though perhaps provoked by precision
17:53.12 brlcad edge conditions
17:53.18 brlcad do you go left or right
17:53.34 Maloeran Indeed, brlcad
17:53.35 brlcad you might arbitrarily (albeit consistently "go right", per se)
17:53.43 ``Erik like the air overlap swapping from the change jra made in the scenegraph
17:54.16 ``Erik they refused a code improvement due to a 'broken' model... :) irritating
17:54.26 brlcad ``Erik: true but then they never were shown a validation that could be accepted in that instance
17:54.46 ``Erik the breakage in their test was pointed out
17:55.11 ``Erik <-- likes regression testing and consistancy in results... but consistantly wrong results are still wrong :(
17:55.32 brlcad dude, you're pulling out one instance.. there were like a half dozen different issues
17:55.57 ``Erik *shrug* what can I say? I'm bitter and irate and on a tyrade :)
17:56.16 brlcad a couple were breakage in their code, or at least bad assumptions, others were fuzz, a couple others were logic differences
17:56.16 ``Erik or tirade
17:56.18 ``Erik your choihce
17:56.38 ``Erik <-- thinks they're too anal and lb is too lenient o.O
17:57.06 brlcad the latter were the ones that mattered that would have otherwise gone unnoticed, even if they did amount to like a couple lines of code
17:57.50 ``Erik (also, I have a low opinion of the theory and information that program is built on... stinky of hackiness to me)
17:58.13 brlcad Maloeran: the overall "concept" isn't hard at all, especially from a code perspective -- it's an approximated physics simulation
17:58.46 brlcad the code is also probably the least significant aspect of the purpose for it's existance
17:59.00 ``Erik mal: http://www.bahdayton.com/SURVIAC/archive/surviac_bulletin/bulletin_9501/bull_9501.html#MUVES
17:59.17 Maloeran For vulnerability analysis?
17:59.23 Maloeran Ah, right
17:59.28 brlcad for a variety of analysis purposes
18:00.20 Maloeran Quote : "MUVES employs the latest software technologies both in design and implementation to optimize useability, [...]" Mmhmm :)
18:00.31 ``Erik it's old code
18:01.10 brlcad http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA245322
18:02.08 brlcad Maloeran: quoted from probably before you were born
18:02.11 ``Erik huh, with a few authors I recognize, go figure
18:02.14 brlcad when it was very much probably true
18:02.46 brlcad it's a software implementation of a simulation that was actually carried out by hand for decades before it
18:03.08 brlcad where it fails isn't really in terms of performance
18:03.22 brlcad or utility -- it certainly does the job it was designed to do
18:03.26 ``Erik a step int eh right direction... but the stepping stopped, and they got stuck :(
18:03.46 ``Erik imho
18:03.53 Maloeran Well, it's C and Unix, they got that right
18:04.02 brlcad it fails in terms of usability and production polish/use -- the 80% of code in a project that has nothing to do with performance
18:04.24 ``Erik ok, I'm done ranting and being a little bitch :) imma go slap my shoes on and head to bwi... catch ya'll later :)
18:04.44 Maloeran Have fun!
18:04.48 brlcad cheers
18:05.49 brlcad much in the same way mged fails to provide an useful interface to new users -- yet most of the "geometry kernel" logic that is required by any solid modeling system is there underneath
18:06.19 brlcad s2 users scream for a new interface, the usability is painful
18:07.21 Maloeran I see, interesting. So performance isn't quite the main issue at this point
18:07.52 brlcad it's one of many issues, but only the biggest from a production standpoint -- not from the "big picture"
18:09.24 brlcad it's like saying I need to get from here to montreal, and I have my bike .. and even though I have a really good bike, it can still only go so fast
18:09.36 brlcad so you're working on a fancy jet engine to propel the bike faster
18:10.15 brlcad when in the big picture.. there are other problems (like others that need to get to montreal that don't know how to ride a bicycle, or are disabled, etc)
18:10.55 Maloeran Good metaphor :). There's just the problem of focusing so much on the raytracer performance, if 95% of the processing time is spent in the "shaders"
18:11.33 brlcad most problems can be simplified down to bicycles and cars :)
18:12.42 brlcad 95% isn't representative
18:13.45 brlcad it's very model and analysis dependent -- some are really highly ray-trace bound, others are stuck in shader-land
18:15.08 Maloeran I guess so. Simple flat rendering "shaders" consume 40% of the processing time here, the actual ray-tracing is... cheap
18:15.34 brlcad on average, I think it's pretty conservative estimate to say more than 50% .. more close to 80-90 probably on average
18:16.25 brlcad yeah, that is one thing that rayforce definitely has over librt -- librt hooks into liboptical for shading, and that isn't nearly as optimized
18:17.43 brlcad it was written to be run-time flexible, pluggable instead, which greatly impacts the design and performance
18:18.32 Maloeran Not that much if rays are processed into large batches, but... yes, flexibility and processing of one ray at a time is just awful
18:19.14 brlcad it would be interesting to see what rayforce's single-ray cost is post-prep
18:19.31 Maloeran Horrible. It's not designed for that
18:19.32 brlcad since that will be more in line with what would be expected from s2
18:19.48 brlcad horrible to you.. but still perhaps a vast boost overal
18:20.03 brlcad perhaps not, just would be interesting
18:20.06 Maloeran You have to set up a buffer, set the buffer environment variables to it builds the proper pipeline optimized for the settings, queue the job, have a thread acquire and run it... for a single ray?
18:20.33 Maloeran It could be made faster, but it isn't really designed for that
18:20.43 brlcad post-prep -- some of that could be construed as part of the prep
18:22.04 Maloeran Really, it's like a C++ graphical library making a overly complex class "pixel", you don't want to process one ray at a time :)
18:22.51 brlcad sounds like you're describing X ;)
18:23.29 Maloeran Eheh, close enough yes
18:25.01 brlcad it might be too much overhead, but it also might still be quite an improvement .. and is in line with how an analysis currently progresses
18:25.41 brlcad i mean there are other considerations that become possible -- shooting in packets, faster optical/pictures, finer resolution at no additional expense
18:26.14 Maloeran Do you really need to trace individual rays?
18:26.31 brlcad the analysis codes, though, generally repeatedly ask the question "what objects are along this path"
18:27.28 brlcad millions of times.. and sometimes the paths coincide, sometimes they do not at all -- more like solving the ray-tracing question for secondary rays only
18:27.54 Maloeran Batches of secondary, incoherent rays are fine too
18:28.16 Maloeran If single rays really are required, I guess I should add an "immediate mode" or so, without job/thread management, where the calling thread blocks and receives raw results
18:30.34 brlcad this same issue came up with adrt, and of course it's even more significant for rayforce .. but what really makes sense as a first step is to drop it in as the implementation behind librt's ray api
18:31.08 brlcad which means basically two function calls -- a scene prep routine, and a ray shooter routine
18:31.18 brlcad the latter being called over and over
18:31.58 Maloeran Would such calls be made from numerous threads?
18:32.04 brlcad adrt is going to be tested in this fashion now that an initial integration is up and running
18:32.45 brlcad yes, numerous threads and/or procs depending on the platform
18:33.53 Maloeran I don't like the idea design-wise, but I guess it's the easiest first step
18:34.26 brlcad for librt, those two actual calls are rt_prep_parallel() and rt_shootray() for most applications, including for s2
18:34.59 Maloeran Yes I saw, the rayforce API is a bit more complex
18:35.40 brlcad the idea would be to detect in rt_prep_parallel if the model being prep'd is triangles, to prep using adrt and/or later using rayforce.. then during rt_shootray() calls, to invoke the other engine instead of librt for those rays
18:35.47 brlcad at least as an initial pass
18:36.53 brlcad that way, there are dozens of projects and applications that could get any performance benefits "for free" without requiring a rewrite (or even a recompile in some instances)
18:37.01 Maloeran Does rt_shootray() block or it queues a callback?
18:37.07 brlcad heh
18:37.25 brlcad blocks
18:37.42 Maloeran So there's no way to just fill up buffers to process rays properly
18:38.05 brlcad thought about adding a non-blocking callback version, but that gets back to the same problem of rewriting all the user codes
18:38.20 brlcad and if/when they're willing to go that far.. there may be better options
18:38.54 Maloeran Using the rayforce native interface? :) It's generic, flexible, meant to be scalable
18:39.31 Maloeran It was written with the possibility in mind that any other raytracer could easily plug itself behind the API
18:39.34 brlcad apparently not flexible enough to have a single prep and single shotline inquiry interface? :)
18:39.57 Maloeran Correct, that's just gross and inefficient :)
18:40.18 brlcad and an excuse -- it's about as simple an interface as possible
18:40.20 Maloeran It could be made, it just removes much of the acceleration potential that could go on behind the API
18:40.44 Maloeran May it be efficient packet processing, SIMD processing, a hardware solution
18:41.22 Maloeran The rayforce API can accomodate about any kind of underlying raytracing engine, hardware of FPGA included
18:41.26 Maloeran or* FPGA
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18:42.31 brlcad yeah, and those are certainly taking off like hotcakes.. :)
18:42.54 Maloeran One day, perhaps, and that implies that the API will still be usable at that point :)
18:42.58 brlcad that's great, but for the more immediate.. it really will probably boil down to just two or three levels of integration
18:43.37 Maloeran I realize that but I must say I prefer properly designed APIs, seeing farther than the immediate needs
18:43.53 brlcad first mimicking the api and seeing what boosts can be gained, then looking at what user-app changes would be required to get the biggest boost whether it be queuing rays or callbacks or what have you
18:44.25 brlcad "immediate" in this context is the next two years or so
18:45.24 Maloeran There's no way to do any decent SSE with single rays by the way, performance would be cut by a factor of 2-10 by design
18:46.02 brlcad "properly designed APIs" can all mean drasticly different things -- librt's API is entirely proper given the purpose
18:46.40 Maloeran It definitely wasn't designed to adopt different raytracing engines, interfaces or solutions
18:46.41 brlcad depends on the user, the hardware, the purpose, etc
18:47.05 Maloeran There's no way to use raytracing hardware with a blocking rt_shootray() for example
18:47.38 brlcad sure, that was never a purpose of the library -- it was specifically written to be hardware agnostic
18:48.13 brlcad hardware has changed a half dozen times since it was started... had the best "fad" of that day been used, librt would have been obsolete a decade ago
18:48.56 brlcad and by obsolete, i mean written in a manner where it *could not* function on current hardware
18:49.34 brlcad as it is, it still runs on just about anything, whether it's got acceleration hardware or not, special computation units etc
18:49.37 Maloeran I don't mean it should be tailored to any specific hardware, I mean it should be both flexible and efficient, not minimalistic
18:49.51 Maloeran OpenGL was designed in a flexible and decent manner, and it remained flexible and efficient for decades
18:50.20 brlcad heh, you keep forgetting/ignoring the purpose though?
18:50.39 brlcad for opengl's purpose, it was flexible and "decent" as you call it, but entirely useless for other domains
18:50.49 Maloeran Well, the librt minimalistic interface causes problems today
18:52.28 brlcad technically only the rt_shootray() interface has that limitation
18:52.37 brlcad librt doesn't boil down to just those two calls
18:53.01 brlcad they are just the most prevalently used, *because* they are so simple to use
18:53.13 brlcad there are routines for shooting bundles of rays in the library
18:53.21 brlcad nobody uses them
18:53.22 Maloeran The problem isn't with librt really, but with the interface ; the interface that all the software now uses
18:53.27 Maloeran Oh :)
18:56.19 Maloeran I guess there wasn't much to gain with bundles of rays with librt
18:56.57 brlcad it gets back to what I started off by saying -- you can't just suddenly change an API out from under dozens/hundreds of projects when you have faithful users without risking loosing your users -- even if the benefits "seem" sufficient
18:57.12 brlcad actually, there was a lot to be gained -- that's why it was implemented
18:57.39 brlcad getting performance boosts by bundling data accesses together is by far nothing new -- heck cray had a monopoly on that two decades ago
18:59.16 Maloeran And people haven't updated the software to use the more efficient calls, I see
19:00.19 brlcad not in the least
19:01.00 brlcad actually writing and even using production-use software is usually not the biggest business expense
19:01.40 brlcad managing that software, training users, documenting everything, managing the workflow process -- that all takes considerably more time
19:03.13 brlcad so while there's an interface that is faster -- the investment is already complete, someone will have to take several weeks to review the new interface, integrate/code to it, validate it, test it, document the change, share that knowledge with others on the team(s)
19:04.36 Maloeran So a programmer can't just switch the code to the better interface on an evening? :) Such inefficiency
19:04.37 brlcad so the motivation to make the change, one that has NOT been validated in particular, is a risk and the benefit generally has to be distinctly clear and outweigh the other costs involved in making the change
19:05.00 brlcad of course they can't
19:05.27 brlcad well they can to the code, but not to the application that is in production use
19:05.53 brlcad someone(tm) has to make sure it actually works .. and what happens when there's a problem, when someone does make a mistake?
19:06.12 brlcad and mistakes DO happen.. they happen a damn lot, especially with programmers
19:07.06 Maloeran The coding process sounds awfully slow and restricted in such a controlled environment
19:08.41 brlcad in some instances it is, some it isn't.. depends on the impact and purpose
19:09.08 brlcad shotline analysis impacts lives, people do live and die by the results
19:10.15 brlcad that's why just saying "oh yeah, it's faster" is a useless statement when there is a difference in a given case that can't be exactly explained
19:10.17 Maloeran Right, that isn't some software you can send patches to users later on
19:10.58 brlcad the difference between a bug and floating point fuzz, for example, could be just one character .. and both giving the same result 99.99% of the time
19:11.58 brlcad due diligence requires getting down to the actual science, explaining the difference and verifying that it's not a bug for example or not a difference to worry about is paramount
19:13.01 brlcad most programmers are incredibly lazy, hand-waving excuses are usually very "bad" even if the "gut feeling" is sane
19:14.39 Maloeran Well, I can already say that you'll find major differences between rayforce and adrt results. Just between two different graph builds, results differ
19:15.07 brlcad yep, to be expected
19:16.06 brlcad whether the results are significant depends on a lot of factors, and will be part of the future integration/validation part
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20:42.59 Maloeran Strange, I'm not finding any header for GCC's __builtin_bswap32 and __builtin_bswap64, to avoid implicit declarations
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061227

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061228

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18:06.24 cadguy Anyone remember how to get GCC to dump defined symbols?
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18:33.23 Maloeran All symbols for compilation? Or perhaps nm would do?
18:33.42 cadguy All symbols that are defined.
18:35.06 Maloeran Within any scope, including static functions and local variables? nm would print all exported, linked, etc. symbols
18:35.50 cadguy Ah, I'm looking for macro definitions. Eg: __i686__ etc.
18:36.23 Maloeran Oh that. gcc -E -dM - < /dev/null
18:38.17 cadguy thx. Can never remember that when I need it. *sigh*
18:38.38 Maloeran Eheh, neither do I, it's noted in a text file
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061229

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01:50.47 *** join/#brlcad Chantal (n=Chantal@58.170.167.163)
01:51.12 Chantal Does anyone know how to use AutoCAD? I need to turn a couple of lines into a polyline, ie the opposite of explode
01:54.09 brlcad Chantal: this channel is for BRL-CAD, not AutoCAD ;)
01:54.40 Chantal I know :( I can't find an autocad channel
01:54.49 Chantal bye
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01:55.08 brlcad ~google opposite of explode autocad
01:55.32 brlcad first result.. "create a block"
01:55.39 brlcad ~stfw
01:55.43 ibot i guess stfw is Search The F*cking Web. See http://justf*ckinggoogleit.com/
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04:26.03 IriX64 works ... cheerzzzzz
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05:12.38 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h machine.h raytrace.h):
05:12.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: raytrace and bu got comment updates
05:12.39 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: machine.h now supports dual cpu's on Intel based Mac machines
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16:29.39 dtidrow http://home.tiscali.nl/annejan/swf/timeline.swf - 'slide rule' clock :-)
16:30.35 clock_ that's funny :)
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17:02.39 brlcad nifty
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19:39.27 IriX64 thanks for letting me in :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061230

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061231

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.