| 08:44.07 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:44.28 |
clock_ |
Hello |
| 08:44.52 |
clock_ |
Do you know
how to make an animation, where the model I created is
rotating? |
| 08:45.03 |
clock_ |
I want it for
better clarity how it's composed. |
| 08:45.56 |
clock_ |
There seems
to be rt_simple manpage missing - is it a bug? |
| 08:46.22 |
clock_ |
And when in
the mged console and I press pageup, pagedown and then type a
command, the command is inserted *before* the prompt instead of
after it, and then is ignored. |
| 08:46.27 |
clock_ |
Is this also
a bug? |
| 14:26.21 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:03.34 |
brlcad |
clock_: yes,
regarding page up/down bug .. regarding rt_simple, not really
though a manpage would be nice |
| 15:03.47 |
brlcad |
feel free to
write one.. it's a simple tool :) |
| 15:05.47 |
clock_ |
I found some
guide for animation. |
| 15:19.50 |
brlcad |
clock_: there
was a message posted to the list several months ago for how (but
Butler) for doing exactly that (rotating an object, making an
animation) |
| 15:19.58 |
brlcad |
s/but/from/ |
| 15:21.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (241 files in 8 dirs):
(log message trimmed) |
| 15:21.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
initial import of the openNURBS initiative's nurbs toolkit. the
toolkit |
| 15:21.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
consists of code for reading/writing .3dm files used by Rhino as
well as nurbs |
| 15:21.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
evaluation and other geometry processing facilities. the library is
being |
| 15:21.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
evaluated for .3dm support as well as potentially gutting the
existing nurbs |
| 15:21.13 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
primitive and using openNURBS evaluation routines instead (still
probably need |
| 15:21.15 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: to
implement ray shot evaluation). this is version 200612050 (aka
4.0). |
| 15:22.12 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
have read about the keyframes I think this will be better than a
simple rotation. |
| 15:24.50 |
brlcad |
a better
animation guide is really needed -- i'm not too fond of the
existing, though it does go into detail |
| 15:25.22 |
brlcad |
it's not even
really a guide |
| 15:25.28 |
brlcad |
it was a
technical paper about the technique |
| 15:28.36 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/on4-gcc4-patch: the
user-provided gcc4 patch that fixes compilation was applied
(basically added a lot of explicit this-> designations), no need
to keep the file around though |
| 15:32.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review 'eclectic' from GSI as a
tessellation approach, review and merge the other GSI
modifications |
| 15:34.00 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.119) |
| 15:39.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: if endgame framework
simulation module compilation was requested, traverse into the
EndgameFramework dir |
| 15:40.15 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/EndgameFramework/Makefile.am: stub
makefile.am so traversal will work |
| 15:47.20 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the endgame framework
makefile |
| 17:23.05 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the originator/vendor for
'compiler' instead of the name of the compiler since we may use
multiple at once in some odd configurations |
| 18:16.30 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_zlib.h: zlib
wasn't included, so update code to reflect usage of a usual
zlib.h |
| 19:28.56 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work
(n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) |
| 19:45.19 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:46.10 |
clock_ |
I think the
user doesn't care if Animation techniques happened to be presented
as an ARL technical report, presented by a user group, or are
considered a principle of effective modelling. |
| 19:46.37 |
clock_ |
I think what
the user cares is to distinguish between animation, primitives,
raytracing, and other technical terms. |
| 19:47.10 |
clock_ |
Therefore I
suggest the documentation on the website not to be categorized
according to into which bureaucratical category this or that
document happened to fall, but according to the content
itself. |
| 19:49.38 |
brlcad |
clock_: i
quite agree |
| 19:50.46 |
brlcad |
whenver the
new website comes on-line, it'll be better organized like that ..
not much worth futzing with the existing unless something's
painfully bad |
| 19:50.48 |
clock_ |
I also
wouldn't categorize into "documentation" and "other
resources" |
| 19:50.52 |
brlcad |
unless you'd
like to clean it up? :) |
| 19:51.20 |
clock_ |
I want to
find out about term/concept X. Is there a black box into which I
type "X" and it says "look under other resources, not under
Documentation"? |
| 19:51.38 |
brlcad |
yeah, we need
a wiki for that |
| 19:52.01 |
clock_ |
no for that
you just need to edit the headlines |
| 19:52.48 |
brlcad |
er, what
headlines? |
| 19:53.28 |
clock_ |
also "project
site" is ridiculous. Isn't the brl-cad.org a project site by
itself? Isn't BRL-CAD a project? |
| 19:54.01 |
clock_ |
I suggest
"Project site" to be renamed to "sourceforge page" |
| 19:54.39 |
clock_ |
Also
"introduction into MGED" into "tutorial for beginners" |
| 19:54.44 |
brlcad |
clock_: yes
and no, but the suggest is noted |
| 19:55.18 |
clock_ |
Really, when
a beginner comes, he has an idea "I want to learn the basics", and
he has no idea that "learn basics" translates into "introduction to
mged" |
| 19:55.21 |
brlcad |
it's not
really a tutorial for beginners, it's a lot of
tutorials |
| 19:55.29 |
brlcad |
unless you
want to call it one massive tutorial |
| 19:55.37 |
brlcad |
which doesn't
seem right given it's length |
| 19:56.05 |
brlcad |
mind you, I
quite agree for the need .. again, I ask -- you willing to make the
changes? :) |
| 19:56.34 |
clock_ |
"principles
of effective modelling" sounds like a textbook. I would name the
link "how to model effectively with BRL-CAD" |
| 19:57.01 |
brlcad |
that's what I
mentioned about it just not being much worth the effort without the
rest of the site infrastructure in place |
| 19:57.18 |
clock_ |
I mean a
beginner will think "this sounds like a title of some general
abstract textbook about CSG, which is not specific to BRL-CAD,
therefore I'm gonna skip this link, this link will not probably
contain the information I am looking for" |
| 19:57.22 |
brlcad |
else
someone(tm) spends several days/weeks of valuable time going
through customizing the site |
| 19:57.46 |
brlcad |
clock_: you
do know where those docs come from? |
| 19:58.16 |
brlcad |
they are
books .. printed books .. makes a lot more sense when someone drops
10 pounds of books in your lap, all related to brl-cad |
| 19:58.39 |
brlcad |
they were
literally just "tossed up" onto the website in the fastest way
possible just so they were accessible |
| 19:59.03 |
clock_ |
You are
thinking the 60's style, when people had to work only with one
computer software. |
| 19:59.04 |
brlcad |
there never
is/was a claim that more work isn't needed, that they can't be
better organized, that more effort "should" go towards
them |
| 19:59.12 |
brlcad |
bullshit |
| 19:59.21 |
brlcad |
i'm saying
you're not listening :) |
| 19:59.25 |
clock_ |
Today they
have to work with hundreds of different softwares. The
documentation must be simplified and accessible as much as
possible. |
| 19:59.44 |
clock_ |
It's not
possible anymore to conceive everything like a book that is
supposed to be read on long winter evenings. |
| 19:59.47 |
brlcad |
AND I
AGREE |
| 19:59.52 |
brlcad |
are YOU going
to do it? |
| 19:59.56 |
clock_ |
no |
| 20:00.03 |
brlcad |
then stop
preaching |
| 20:00.09 |
clock_ |
Why? |
| 20:00.19 |
brlcad |
because it's
counterproductive |
| 20:00.23 |
clock_ |
I am just
telling my suggestions |
| 20:00.56 |
brlcad |
well, you
diverged from a suggestion a while ago |
| 20:01.48 |
clock_ |
Do you have a
new version of the website being prepared somewhere? |
| 20:03.06 |
brlcad |
the ideas are
fine, and welcome in themselves -- especially for the website, a
lot is very much needed -- what is up there now is utterly the
*bare minimum* effort that was possible, becuase there wasn't
available effort for anything more really |
| 20:04.05 |
brlcad |
the basic
design and layout are done, there was a couple people testing out
various content management systems as well and that was narrowed
down to what is needed |
| 20:04.56 |
brlcad |
but yes,
there is a new version that has been under development since the
first files were thrown up -- it's just the website has priority
under most everything else usually (for better or
worse) |
| 20:05.21 |
clock_ |
Sorry I don't
have time to help you with the website now I am trying to make an
animated raytrace of a coloured Ronja part |
| 20:05.29 |
brlcad |
there's not
enough community involvement, so the bare minimum stays up
there |
| 20:05.45 |
brlcad |
and I'm
trying to integrate the new foundation for improved NURBS support
:) |
| 20:05.56 |
clock_ |
I had a wiki
on Ronja but I abandoned it after some time because |
| 20:06.01 |
clock_ |
- it got
hacked |
| 20:06.06 |
clock_ |
- it got
filled with spam |
| 20:06.07 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 20:06.21 |
clock_ |
- the content
people posted was sometimes inaccurate and misleading |
| 20:06.29 |
clock_ |
- it required
frequent security updates |
| 20:06.36 |
clock_ |
- it was hard
to upgrade |
| 20:06.44 |
brlcad |
doesn't have
to be an open wiki, that would be pretty crazy |
| 20:07.05 |
clock_ |
I stayed back
with manually-edited PHP HTML and I am happy with it |
| 20:07.16 |
brlcad |
and several
of those issues are specific to the wiki you chose |
| 20:09.22 |
brlcad |
it's really
just been a matter of priorities .. the website is probably the #3
biggest problem are right now |
| 20:09.30 |
clock_ |
I tried first
twiki, later when it got hacked I switched to Mediawiki |
| 20:09.51 |
clock_ |
Well your
website isn't the worst |
| 20:10.08 |
clock_ |
the worst
website in my opinion is of the linux kernel, http://www.kernel.org |
| 20:10.30 |
brlcad |
#2 supporting
existing users sufficiently |
| 20:11.02 |
brlcad |
#1 modeling
interface, usability |
| 20:15.56 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's old
website was manually-edited php html .. it was a pain in the arse
to maintain |
| 20:16.13 |
brlcad |
and to add
major features was unthinkable |
| 20:16.54 |
brlcad |
there's a lot
of good effort going into CMS that make them appealing, even if
they have limitations or a learning curve |
| 20:17.58 |
brlcad |
anyhow we're
pretty much past that learning curve -- it's down to just actually
installing and setting it up. the content is gathered together,
the design is set, graphics created .. just need the time to set it
up some weekend |
| 20:18.27 |
clock_ |
I was
surprised that I modelled a lens from glass and it really distorted
the image - and caused a light from a light source to be
concentrated |
| 20:19.03 |
brlcad |
it should
give you perfect refraction |
| 20:19.26 |
clock_ |
Yes looked
like a perfect refraction |
| 20:19.27 |
brlcad |
which isn't
realistic for normal glass, but useful |
| 20:19.47 |
clock_ |
what do you
mean with perfect refraction? |
| 20:20.22 |
clock_ |
Without
chromatic aberration? |
| 20:20.22 |
dtidrow_work |
no wavelength
depedence, perhaps? |
| 20:20.34 |
brlcad |
there's no
participating media interaction .. microscopic air bubbles that
might distort the image, blur, polarize, band filter,
etc |
| 20:23.08 |
brlcad |
the
multispectral library could do wavelength-dependent interactions,
give you polarizations, filterings, etc .. if you wrote the
appropriate multispectral shader to simulate the medium (glass in
this case, or a sufficient phong or cook-torrence shader
perhaps) |
| 20:26.20 |
clock_ |
I have great
difficulty with that because even Firefox copies everything as one
line |
| 20:26.32 |
clock_ |
Maybe giving
key-chans for download would be more convenient. |
| 20:27.16 |
brlcad |
key-chans? |
| 20:27.27 |
clock_ |
yes,
key-chans |
| 20:27.50 |
brlcad |
~key-chans |
| 20:29.53 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-057.uchicago.edu) |
| 20:29.58 |
clock_ |
hmm,
key-chans seems to work even on OpenBSD - with their chronically
exotic versions of various UNIX utilities. This one is using awk as
I can see |
| 20:32.12 |
dli |
I'm learning
"Learning about Boolean Expressions", the auto operation order is
confusing to me, can I specify the order like ( shape1 u shape2) -
( shape3 u shape4) |
| 20:35.30 |
brlcad |
dli: there
are a couple commands that accept infix notation, but most are
prefix |
| 20:35.45 |
brlcad |
maybe see
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/cs2121/fix.html
for a conversion |
| 20:35.59 |
dli |
brlcad,
thanks |
| 20:36.23 |
brlcad |
or build it
up if you want to keep it simple |
| 20:37.03 |
clock_ |
I am sure for
most people the necessity to cut-copy-paste UNIX shellscripts from
a website and type a lot of typo-prone commands would be the
ultimate turnoff |
| 20:37.06 |
dli |
brlcad, you
mean, I first got shape1 + shape2, etc? |
| 20:37.06 |
brlcad |
make object
outer: shape1 u shape2 .. then object inner: shape3 u shape 4 ..
then final object: outer - inner |
| 20:37.18 |
clock_ |
and that it
would motivate them to stop using BRL-CAD and start using some
commercial competition instead |
| 20:38.44 |
brlcad |
clock_: and
for a valuable minority, hopefully encourage them to contribute to
help make the open source project better |
| 20:39.23 |
clock_ |
brlcad: the
problem is, I see these problems on majority of the tools, and I
unfortunately don't have time to engage in improvement of all of
them |
| 20:39.28 |
brlcad |
there's lots
of great ideas, and lots of energy going around -- just not towards
the tools in a unified manner so much |
| 20:39.35 |
clock_ |
I think it's
more efficient to engage in improvement of my own crap, i. e.
Ronja |
| 20:40.09 |
brlcad |
clock_: i
didn't mean you specifically this time ;) |
| 20:40.22 |
clock_ |
When people
send me ideas about Ronja ("this link should be called differently
because it's confusing"), I put the into my TODO list and they get
eventually done :) |
| 20:40.44 |
brlcad |
that is the
issue -- everyone has their own investment and requirements.. have
to get people excited and interested in contributing, making it
"worth it" for them |
| 20:41.17 |
brlcad |
as do I,
massive TODO file |
| 20:41.24 |
brlcad |
and gets
towards #2 that I was talking about |
| 20:42.23 |
brlcad |
we simply
have way more coming in than can go out |
| 20:42.29 |
dtidrow_work |
brlcad: how
many K is that TODO file? ;-) |
| 20:42.32 |
brlcad |
given current
involvement |
| 20:43.20 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
not really representative by K as I'll consolidate something that
might be a man-year's effort into a 1-liner |
| 20:43.55 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 20:44.29 |
brlcad |
clock_: the
animation tools are not production-ready, if I didn't say that
before -- they were a hack implemented 15 years ago to make a few
movies and haven't changed since |
| 20:44.59 |
dtidrow_work |
I love those
on the todo list - one innocent looking line explodes into a whole
mess of work... :-\ |
| 20:45.17 |
clock_ |
15 years ago
lol :) |
| 20:45.21 |
brlcad |
yeah .. "*
add support for levels of detail" |
| 20:45.31 |
dtidrow_work |
lol |
| 20:45.43 |
brlcad |
"librt-based
path tracer" |
| 20:45.46 |
clock_ |
I wrote a
game for ZX Spectrum 10 years ago and recently I finally published
it :) |
| 20:46.31 |
dtidrow_work |
in
basic? |
| 20:46.52 |
clock_ |
no in Z80
assembler |
| 20:47.06 |
dtidrow_work |
gosh, even
ten years ago the ZX was old |
| 20:48.32 |
brlcad |
hmm.. looks
like there's currently 77 items in the todo file, 46 in the bugs
file, 23 in the feature tracker, 48 in the bug tracker, and about
two dozen outstanding support requests via e-mail (that will each
take about a half a day of time to respond to) |
| 20:49.16 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 20:49.36 |
dtidrow_work |
so how many
man-decades does that mean? ;-) |
| 20:50.04 |
brlcad |
compiled a
list of pressing modeler needs here locally after getting together
with several of them .. the list they generated of the most
pressing needs accummulated to about 8 man-years of work
iirc |
| 20:50.51 |
Maloeran |
But that's 6
months of brlcad and ``Erik work, right? :) |
| 20:50.56 |
brlcad |
i dunno for
the whole list.. it's probably on the order or 15-150 years ..
depends on the polish :) |
| 20:51.25 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
heh.. |
| 20:51.48 |
dtidrow_work |
brlcad: do
you even remember what 'sleep' is? ;-) |
| 20:52.09 |
Maloeran |
A glibc
wrapper around the syscall, of course |
| 20:52.29 |
dtidrow_work |
ha ha
ha |
| 20:52.32 |
brlcad |
plenty of
time to sleep when I'm dead |
| 20:53.03 |
brlcad |
which might
not be too long after a few more years like this |
| 20:53.14 |
dli |
how do I
adjust a parameter of a defined shape (prim)? |
| 20:53.21 |
brlcad |
but then
rowing, lifting, and biking keep me young ;) |
| 20:53.41 |
brlcad |
dli: you want
the command-line method, or the gui method? |
| 20:54.02 |
brlcad |
command-line:
sed object .. then a variety of commands depending on the
edit |
| 20:54.10 |
dli |
brlcad, I
prefer cli, the GUI prim editor is confusing also |
| 20:54.12 |
brlcad |
gui: go to
the edit menu |
| 20:54.23 |
brlcad |
prim
selection |
| 20:54.37 |
Maloeran |
SURVICE is
working on an immigration visa and they put June 1st as date to
begin as an employee, there's no way I can get a driving license
before then... Seems I'll do a whole lot of biking too
:) |
| 20:54.39 |
brlcad |
enter
primitive name, hit enter.. should show parameters that can be
adjusted |
| 20:55.09 |
dli |
brlcad, rror:
Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT
state. |
| 20:55.09 |
dli |
Expecting
VIEWING state |
| 20:55.10 |
brlcad |
er, can't get
a license in six months?? |
| 20:55.23 |
brlcad |
dli: ah,
you're already editing "something" |
| 20:55.27 |
Maloeran |
Not in
Canada, takes 12 months to get a "real" license allowing one to
drive without supervision |
| 20:55.31 |
brlcad |
type: reject
or accept |
| 20:55.51 |
brlcad |
ahh,
provisional timeframe |
| 20:56.04 |
Maloeran |
Or should I
look for some obscure state that delivers driving licenses by mail
within 5 days? |
| 20:56.06 |
dli |
brlcad, must
be the GUI editor, I couldn't figure out the prim editor
:( |
| 20:56.33 |
brlcad |
dli: :) ..
there should also be accept and reject menu items on the edit
menu |
| 20:57.00 |
clock_ |
If this is my
last words, then it's cause by a salad dressing which is already 3
months beyond it's horizon |
| 20:57.41 |
brlcad |
nasty |
| 20:57.43 |
Maloeran |
If you
managed to overcome the natural vomiting reflex, it can't have been
that bad |
| 20:57.49 |
clock_ |
smells good,
tastes good... |
| 20:58.07 |
clock_ |
Now Saddam
can come with his Anthrax - I am resistant to biological
weapons |
| 20:58.23 |
clock_ |
Actually - he
can't. 1) he doesn't have biological weapons, 2) he suffered
clinical death |
| 20:58.24 |
dtidrow_work |
lol |
| 20:59.30 |
dtidrow_work |
rope neckties
generally lead to 2 :-) |
| 20:59.37 |
dli |
brlcad, can I
just remake the prim? it's unioned, sed just gives me a
warning |
| 21:03.37 |
clock_ |
lol viewsize
eye_pt orientation - is the script going to ask me about my sexual
orientation? |
| 21:04.55 |
dli |
brlcad, yes,
kill && in works better |
| 21:08.10 |
brlcad |
dli: yes you
can |
| 21:08.35 |
brlcad |
that's
actually expected use, even if it's being referenced by another
object |
| 21:08.41 |
Maloeran |
What is that
animation you are trying to record, clock_? |
| 21:08.47 |
brlcad |
so you can
swap out arbitrary geometry as needed |
| 21:11.29 |
Maloeran |
Recording an
animation seems like a simple thing to do, I just dump the raw
frames and mencode the resulting file to a more standard
format |
| 21:11.52 |
``Erik |
mal: if you
need, I can help ya learn to drive... provided I get my truck
working, or you buy a car... you ain't learnin' on my m3 :D (my
truck is manual, autos are a lot easier, but I personally don't
call that driving). I THINK, for an adult, it's only like 3 or 6
mo, MAYBE less... |
| 21:12.10 |
``Erik |
brlcad: new
website? eh? |
| 21:12.23 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yah,
what? |
| 21:12.38 |
``Erik |
clock:
sourceforge, put it in 'feature requests' or 'bugtracker' and stfu.
Also; if you want to claim one and do it... DO IT |
| 21:12.39 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (3 files): remove the z_
prefix protection so that openNURBS can be linked against an
installed system zlib library (there were no namespace
collisions) |
| 21:12.39 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, thanks
Erik. I think I'm going to get one of these 2 places Smart
car |
| 21:12.49 |
brlcad |
that was
something I started years ago when I first started |
| 21:13.01 |
``Erik |
like... 8 yrs
ago? |
| 21:13.01 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 21:13.09 |
brlcad |
naht that
long |
| 21:13.41 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, I have too much experience
with webby type things... if it's drudge work, fuck off, but if
ti's just a hurdle, mebbe I cna help :) |
| 21:14.35 |
brlcad |
was seriously
working on it about 4 years ago, and then had to shelve it to make
the open sourcing happen |
| 21:15.00 |
brlcad |
it's been
worked on a bit since, I even paid someone to work on it for a
while, but still was usurped by other priorities |
| 21:15.28 |
``Erik |
I've grown
irate enough to decide that I amke my own priorities. |
| 21:15.48 |
brlcad |
``Erik: I
feel exactly the same -- had I needed the site 10 years ago, I
would have spent the weeks and would have made something kick
ass |
| 21:16.10 |
brlcad |
now it's just
boring tripe that takes way too long and involves too much
fruitless hacking |
| 21:17.04 |
Maloeran |
``Erik, seems
to be 6 months in Maryland for a license. Is a license from a state
valid in another? |
| 21:17.05 |
brlcad |
getting the
site itself isn't a big deal, that's part why I really want a CMS
up so that after whatever goonie is gone that set it up, the site
can still be maintained and improved |
| 21:17.10 |
``Erik |
after I build
a perf testbed app to compare rayfarce and adrt |
| 21:17.15 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
yes |
| 21:17.21 |
Maloeran |
Because there
seems to be states with far less... restrictive
requirements |
| 21:17.30 |
``Erik |
mal: usually,
MIGHT require taking a test, but no probation period |
| 21:18.24 |
brlcad |
yeah, I knew
a few friends that drove down to VA to get their license because
the test was easier |
| 21:18.24 |
``Erik |
when I moved
from washington to missouri, I had to take a written test, eye
exam, and then I got a license... when I moved from 'missouri' (tn
with a mo license), I just had to take an eye exam |
| 21:18.24 |
brlcad |
but hey, the
test really isn't hard -- if you're failing, there's probably a
reason |
| 21:18.47 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, nice. A
car, I'm sure that drives just like a bicycle :) |
| 21:18.58 |
Maloeran |
I think I'll
get something like : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo |
| 21:19.05 |
brlcad |
ahh, the
driving test should be the least of your worries ;) |
| 21:19.07 |
``Erik |
for the most
part, bicycles have to follow car rules when on the
road |
| 21:20.03 |
brlcad |
there are a
couple tricks to the test (usually stop lights and proper parallel
parking), but more get the written test wrong |
| 21:20.23 |
``Erik |
look at the
retard redneck idiots who drive... it can't be THAT
difficult |
| 21:20.33 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 21:20.34 |
``Erik |
and if you're
feeling really REALLY inbred, just go to wv for the
test |
| 21:20.35 |
brlcad |
which usually
just means they don't understand the laws that they're supposed to
be abiding by (or the test has poorly worded questions)
*ahem* |
| 21:20.36 |
``Erik |
*duck*
:D |
| 21:20.52 |
Maloeran |
Tests are
rather difficult in Quebec I heard... Some people go get a license
in the states because they can't get one here |
| 21:20.53 |
brlcad |
don't think
there's is much different from MDs |
| 21:21.08 |
brlcad |
er,
theirs |
| 21:21.26 |
``Erik |
most of it is
undertsanding the signals being presented |
| 21:21.37 |
``Erik |
red light
means stop, double yellow in the middle means no pass,
etc |
| 21:21.39 |
Maloeran |
Ah well, 6
months is good, I can manage biking for a month or two
initially |
| 21:22.17 |
``Erik |
the apt
complex I lived in for my first 6mo in md is right across 95 from
survice |
| 21:22.41 |
``Erik |
when we went
to that restraunt in marks mazda, we passed it |
| 21:23.11 |
``Erik |
the one that
made me sick o>O |
| 21:25.24 |
``Erik |
hrm |
| 21:25.28 |
``Erik |
rooms or
bedrooms/ |
| 21:25.36 |
Maloeran |
5 rooms, 2
bedrooms |
| 21:25.44 |
``Erik |
the one I had
was 9 rooms, plus a deck |
| 21:25.49 |
Maloeran |
Oh, okay
:) |
| 21:26.17 |
``Erik |
and a wood
burning fireplace, and covered parking, and ... |
| 21:26.18 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 21:26.28 |
dtidrow_work |
``Erik: where
was this? |
| 21:26.37 |
``Erik |
um,
belcamp |
| 21:26.40 |
``Erik |
behind the
hotel |
| 21:26.45 |
``Erik |
'aborwood' or
something |
| 21:26.59 |
Maloeran |
Requirement
for MD driving license : "Two documents establishing your Maryland
residency" |
| 21:27.00 |
``Erik |
arborwood,
even |
| 21:27.34 |
``Erik |
mal: power
bill is sufficient for one, apt pmt is probably
sufficient |
| 21:28.24 |
clock_ |
clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$
./moss.rt |
| 21:28.24 |
clock_ |
./moss.rt:
line 1: 24787 Segmentation fault (core dumped) rt -M $* -o
moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log
<moss.rtanim |
| 21:28.30 |
clock_ |
wohoo
:) |
| 21:28.45 |
``Erik |
ooohhhh, you
better fix that, clock |
| 21:29.15 |
Maloeran |
``Erik: I
mean I can't just apply now and wait 6 months from this
point |
| 21:35.40 |
clock_ |
``Erik: I can
send the files |
| 21:37.03 |
``Erik |
mal: I think
the 6mo assumes education... |
| 21:37.10 |
``Erik |
clock:
sf.net/projects/brlcad |
| 21:38.03 |
clock_ |
Does this
help? |
| 21:38.15 |
clock_ |
#0
0x1c008158 in do_pixel (cpu=0, pat_num=-1, pixelnum=15018) at
worker.c:491 |
| 21:38.15 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.18 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.20 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.23 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.25 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.28 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.30 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.33 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.35 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.38 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.40 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.43 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.46 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.48 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.51 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.53 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.56 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.58 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.01 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.03 |
clock_ |
---Type
<return> to continue, or q <return> to
quit--- |
| 21:39.06 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.08 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.11 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.13 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.16 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.55 |
clock_ |
I crashed at
moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.04 |
clock_ |
clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls
-la moss.pix.5 |
| 21:40.04 |
clock_ |
-r--r--r-- 1
clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:37 moss.pix.5 |
| 21:40.04 |
clock_ |
clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls
-la moss.pix.4 |
| 21:40.04 |
clock_ |
-r--r--r-- 1
clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:36 moss.pix.4 |
| 21:40.04 |
clock_ |
clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls
-la moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.07 |
clock_ |
-rw-r--r-- 1
clock users 44400 Jan 5 22:37 moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.28 |
clock_ |
The path is
an almost-circular path around the object |
| 21:42.46 |
brlcad |
clock_: what
version is that? |
| 21:53.55 |
brlcad |
nothing
obvious in that particular stack, though the line doesn't match
anything sensible in my version |
| 21:54.10 |
brlcad |
s/stack/frame/ |
| 21:55.02 |
clock_ |
BRL-CAD
Release 7.8.2 |
| 21:55.45 |
brlcad |
okay, that's
better |
| 21:56.00 |
clock_ |
Should I
reinstall to 7.8.4? |
| 21:56.25 |
brlcad |
no
no |
| 21:56.42 |
brlcad |
it's acting
like you had a partial render, given the code it's in |
| 21:56.44 |
clock_ |
Solid
modelling for strong defense haha :) |
| 21:56.56 |
clock_ |
Should I
delete the pixfiles and try again? |
| 21:57.01 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 21:57.40 |
clock_ |
clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$
./moss.rt -s 200 |
| 21:57.40 |
clock_ |
./moss.rt:
line 1: 13777 Segmentation fault (core dumped) rt -M $* -o
moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log
<moss.rtanim |
| 21:57.43 |
clock_ |
Anyway |
| 21:57.58 |
brlcad |
same
frame? |
| 21:58.02 |
clock_ |
This time it
created only moss.pix and moss.pix.1 |
| 21:58.14 |
clock_ |
-r--r--r-- 1
clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:57 moss.pix |
| 21:58.14 |
clock_ |
-rw-r--r-- 1
clock users 44400 Jan 5 22:57 moss.pix.1 |
| 21:58.22 |
clock_ |
Seems to
produce a runt file of the same size |
| 21:58.38 |
clock_ |
Maybe when I
run it many times I get a complete animation with ocassional bad
pixels :) |
| 21:59.16 |
brlcad |
curious, you
have an smp machine? |
| 21:59.21 |
clock_ |
no |
| 21:59.29 |
clock_ |
Pentium M
1.5GHz notebook |
| 22:00.18 |
brlcad |
delete the
pix files again and add the -B flag to rt ... run it twice if it
crashes and see if it crashes on the same image frame both
times |
| 22:00.51 |
clock_ |
I'm going to
sleep now |
| 22:00.53 |
clock_ |
good
night |
| 22:01.42 |
brlcad |
hrm
k |
| 22:01.56 |
brlcad |
if you can
get a chance, I'd be interested in getting those files to test
here |
| 22:03.03 |
clock_ |
yes I can
send them |
| 22:03.42 |
b0ef |
nearly got a
heart stop when I saw NURBS on the commit list;) |
| 22:04.16 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:04.41 |
b0ef |
you working
on exposing the NURBS interface in brlcad? |
| 22:07.47 |
b0ef |
for
manipulating NURBS.. |
| 22:11.05 |
brlcad |
b0ef: couple
different efforts |
| 22:11.32 |
brlcad |
one being
just to simply improve the geometry engine's nurbs
support |
| 22:11.47 |
brlcad |
the existing
isn't exposed because it has "issues" |
| 22:12.06 |
brlcad |
so
fixing/improving it is the first step |
| 22:12.54 |
brlcad |
that also
then in turn supports geometry conversion, which is what is driving
this particular effort -- being able to seamlessly bring in models
from pro/e, unigraphics, rhino, etc without doing a
tessellation |
| 22:13.25 |
brlcad |
also
fundamentally needed by the step converter, which will likely be
the second major effort |
| 22:14.11 |
b0ef |
just
wondering; is the reverse also be part of that same effort? (mesh
to NURBS) |
| 22:14.18 |
brlcad |
THEN on to
the modeling interface facilities (which could happen in parallel
with the step converter work, but that depends on involvement from
others) |
| 22:14.54 |
brlcad |
yikes,
generate a smoothed nurbs surface off of some mesh? |
| 22:15.12 |
b0ef |
well, a NURBS
surface doesn't have to be smooth |
| 22:15.17 |
b0ef |
it can be
anything;) |
| 22:15.18 |
brlcad |
true |
| 22:15.22 |
b0ef |
that's the
beauty of it;) |
| 22:15.23 |
dtidrow_work |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/420mph_cavalier/
- wonder where he hid the JATO bottles ;-) |
| 22:15.24 |
brlcad |
but then
what'd be the point? |
| 22:16.00 |
b0ef |
well, when
using existing models; having the capability to turn them into
parametric surfaces is very handy |
| 22:16.01 |
Maloeran |
Tsk, the
"beauty" of NURBS are a pain to raytrace efficiently :) |
| 22:16.19 |
Maloeran |
are->is |
| 22:16.39 |
b0ef |
NURBS should
be even more easy than a mesh, from my understanding |
| 22:16.58 |
b0ef |
well, yeah,
efficiently is another thing, I guess |
| 22:17.10 |
brlcad |
b0ef: ah, you
mean from a modelling perspective, for deformations,
etc |
| 22:17.21 |
b0ef |
brlcad:
yeah |
| 22:18.04 |
brlcad |
i'll keep it
in mind, but that's kind of obscure .. we don't have direct mesh or
nurbs editing now, so talking about converting from one or the
other without the editing is a bit premature ;) |
| 22:18.12 |
b0ef |
well, the
thing I'm after doesn't even require the non uniform and rational
part, really |
| 22:18.32 |
b0ef |
at
first;) |
| 22:19.05 |
b0ef |
of course,
trimming and such in the future would require that |
| 22:19.10 |
brlcad |
doing a
straight up conversion would be a pretty simple tool for someone to
write -- but you still wouldn't have the editing capacity yet
;) |
| 22:19.41 |
b0ef |
I'm on my way
to learn the mathematics, but some years are expected, so I can't
help, yet;) |
| 22:20.30 |
brlcad |
you're
welcome to jump into the code as part of your learning
;) |
| 22:20.37 |
b0ef |
anyways, I've
found offset tool in inkscape |
| 22:21.11 |
b0ef |
yeah, I am
pursuing this, but I'm just taking linear algebra at the
time |
| 22:21.36 |
b0ef |
..so I've
made my surfaces in inkscape |
| 22:22.08 |
b0ef |
the problem
now is stitching them together |
| 22:22.51 |
b0ef |
well, make
them compatible |
| 22:23.03 |
b0ef |
make one
surface out of them all |
| 22:24.59 |
b0ef |
I also found
out I need to look at projection |
| 22:25.48 |
b0ef |
damn, NURBS
are sexy;) |
| 22:32.36 |
brlcad |
ever used
rhino? |
| 22:32.39 |
brlcad |
er,
rhino3d |
| 22:32.52 |
b0ef |
no |
| 22:33.01 |
brlcad |
they are
pretty much the kings of nurbs modeling |
| 22:33.12 |
b0ef |
yeah, know,
but I don't use proprietary software |
| 22:34.18 |
b0ef |
;) |
| 22:36.13 |
brlcad |
b0ef: i only
mentioned as a lead for perspective -- their nurbs modeling
interface is pretty darn sexy, the standard most of the industry
has used to live up to |
| 22:36.38 |
b0ef |
brlcad: yeah,
believe me, I know about it;) |
| 22:36.47 |
brlcad |
some pretty
tricky math behind what they have working on the user interfae
side |
| 22:36.52 |
b0ef |
I've skimmed
the surface of the earth for NURBS;) |
| 22:37.27 |
brlcad |
ah, so you've
*heard* of rhino.. just not used it |
| 22:37.58 |
b0ef |
yeah, read on
it |
| 22:38.57 |
b0ef |
I used maya,
before I went fanatic, though |
| 22:39.33 |
Maloeran |
Are you
mostly a modeller, b0ef, or a programmer as well? |
| 22:40.03 |
b0ef |
well, I'm
mostly a programmer, but have this childhood dream of recreating
where I grew up |
| 22:40.18 |
b0ef |
s/where/the
place where/ |
| 22:40.24 |
Maloeran |
:)
Nice. |
| 22:40.41 |
b0ef |
;), yeah,
been working on it for many many years |
| 22:41.04 |
b0ef |
off and on,
of course |
| 22:41.15 |
brlcad |
did you
happen to grow up in the Cornell box? |
| 22:41.28 |
brlcad |
or inside a
tank |
| 22:41.35 |
brlcad |
if so, I
might be able to heelp |
| 22:42.04 |
b0ef |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B8nestoppen |
| 22:42.29 |
b0ef |
;) |
| 22:43.41 |
b0ef |
indeed |
| 22:44.04 |
brlcad |
hmm, let's
see .. there's a procedural vegetation generator in brl-cad, grass
and cloud shaders, texture and wood shaders.. terrain .. that'll
get you most of that picture ;) |
| 22:44.24 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.173.172) |
| 22:44.26 |
b0ef |
I have
actually modeled the whole place |
| 22:44.41 |
b0ef |
many times,
actually |
| 22:44.43 |
Maloeran |
Where's the
procedural vegetation generator? I thought Justin had used some
weird Blender plugin |
| 22:44.53 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: he
had, but there's one in there too |
| 22:44.54 |
Maloeran |
Which was
very broken for me, as all Blender plugins I tried |
| 22:44.58 |
Maloeran |
Neat |
| 22:46.33 |
b0ef |
here are the
current svg surfaces: |
| 22:46.39 |
b0ef |
http://www.esben-stien.name/scoutinkscape-0.0.9.svg |
| 22:46.44 |
b0ef |
well, nearly
the current |
| 22:47.18 |
b0ef |
hmm, only
some parts of it show up in my browser, but inkscape should show it
right |
| 22:47.44 |
b0ef |
I have
modeled it many times, but I need a parametric model of
it |
| 22:48.33 |
Maloeran |
May I ask why
you need it made of NURBS specifically? |
| 22:48.47 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
it's nothing fancy -- it was a quick 1-week effort to procedurally
create random trees and bushes quickly .. end result was pretty
decent actually, but there are a ton of parameters to feed
(branching rates, branch min/maxes, radii, tapering rates,
etc) |
| 22:48.57 |
brlcad |
maybe 2
weeks, i forget |
| 22:49.36 |
b0ef |
Maloeran:
well, it doesn't work to work with surfaces and curves in mesh
modeling for something like this |
| 22:49.42 |
brlcad |
still, it has
some nice aspects like no self-intersections, branches grow towards
light visibility, etc |
| 22:50.29 |
Maloeran |
Sounds good,
brlcad, I had pondered about writing something like
that |
| 22:50.57 |
Maloeran |
Where is it
in the source? |
| 22:51.00 |
brlcad |
src/proc-db
if you want to poke -- it's in there somewhere, vegitation
iirc |
| 22:51.08 |
Maloeran |
Thanks. |
| 22:52.12 |
b0ef |
I have very
little interest in shaders and such, really; I just want to model
it and synthesise the textures |
| 22:52.35 |
b0ef |
I'm looking
into fluxus to synthesise textures |
| 22:52.55 |
Maloeran |
Shaders? As
long as it's raytraced, you should just need material properties
and launch the process |
| 22:53.48 |
b0ef |
yeah, but I
don't want to use bitmaps |
| 22:53.56 |
b0ef |
as in, static
textures |
| 22:54.24 |
b0ef |
well, that's
a long way from now, anyways |
| 23:47.11 |
``Erik |
boner-stoppin'? |
| 03:05.29 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 13:38.14 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:36.06 |
clock_ |
brlcad: you
might be interested in my autogenerated BRL-CAD videos |
| 14:41.10 |
brlcad |
clock_:
howdy |
| 14:41.13 |
brlcad |
i probably
would |
| 14:42.09 |
clock_ |
There was a
problem with pixhalve that it is usable only with
gamma=1 |
| 14:42.17 |
clock_ |
but gamma=1
degrades the pixel depth so it's unusable |
| 14:42.31 |
clock_ |
gamma=2.2 is
correct for rendering video, but without pixhalve the videos are
jagged |
| 14:42.57 |
clock_ |
So I wrote my
own tool that supports arbitrary spatial resampling (up/down), and
temporary downsampling given by an integer |
| 14:43.05 |
clock_ |
and outputs
into YUV4MPEG2 and PPM stream |
| 14:43.43 |
clock_ |
I put it into
my Ronja makefiles so now I get a 576x576x50Hz video with a sound
loop background (7.2 sec) and an animated gif @10Hz which is
temporary subsampled |
| 14:43.44 |
brlcad |
your pix-y4m
tool? |
| 14:43.57 |
clock_ |
everything is
calculated correctly, gamma correctly handled, calculations done in
16 bits |
| 14:44.03 |
clock_ |
yes it's an
upgrade of the pix-y4m |
| 14:44.11 |
clock_ |
I took the
resampler from Links :) |
| 14:44.43 |
clock_ |
it generates
Ogg Theora, DivX and WMV |
| 14:44.47 |
clock_ |
and also
bzipped YUV4MPEG2 |
| 14:44.51 |
clock_ |
and an
animated GIF |
| 14:45.05 |
brlcad |
that tool
would make a nice addition, though there are a few hopefully minor
changes/additions that would be needed and one other somewhat
signficant change |
| 14:45.35 |
brlcad |
generates
ogg/divx/wmv manually? or links to eternal libs? |
| 14:45.53 |
clock_ |
from the
YUV4MPEG2 it's generated by transcode and libtheora encoder
example |
| 14:46.04 |
clock_ |
the pix-y4m
produces YUV4MPEG2 |
| 14:46.09 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 14:46.24 |
brlcad |
i was going
to say.. damn |
| 14:47.23 |
clock_ |
See http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
at the bottom - tetrax |
| 14:48.30 |
brlcad |
that's
freaking awesome :) |
| 14:49.02 |
clock_ |
Now I just
add names like "holder" or "tetrax" into one place of my makefiles
and add couple of hours and I can get other videos :) |
| 14:49.05 |
clock_ |
thanks |
| 14:49.18 |
brlcad |
at least on
the ogg :) |
| 14:49.34 |
clock_ |
that's not
porno music that's CC-BY-SA Xcyril: Hip Hop |
| 14:49.42 |
brlcad |
uh huh
;) |
| 14:49.55 |
clock_ |
can you play
in a loop? |
| 14:50.36 |
clock_ |
I could
replace the loop with amiga-style chiptune from the Supertux
game |
| 14:50.46 |
clock_ |
it has a
period of 7 seconds that's very close to 7.2 |
| 14:51.12 |
brlcad |
yeah, I can
loop it in quicktime |
| 14:51.21 |
clock_ |
does it loop
seamlessly? |
| 14:51.48 |
brlcad |
the animation
is seamless |
| 14:52.03 |
brlcad |
the audio on
theora is a little disjoint |
| 14:52.54 |
clock_ |
and divx and
wmv? |
| 14:54.36 |
brlcad |
ahh, somehow
i missed the audio on the divx .. it's identical |
| 14:54.49 |
clock_ |
is there a
notch in the audio? |
| 14:55.15 |
brlcad |
it's not so
much a notch as just a nit-pick on the blend |
| 14:55.30 |
clock_ |
maybe the
driver has to flush the audio buffer or so |
| 14:55.40 |
clock_ |
I calculated
the length in audacity exactly to 7.2 sec |
| 14:55.48 |
clock_ |
When I blend
the audios in audacity, it's perfectly seamless |
| 14:55.55 |
clock_ |
so it must be
the encoding process or your player |
| 14:56.12 |
clock_ |
my player
(mplayer, vlc) produces absolutely horrible stutter at the
seam |
| 14:56.17 |
brlcad |
or different
expectations |
| 14:56.21 |
brlcad |
it does loop
nicely |
| 14:58.03 |
brlcad |
but going
from the fluttering at the end to the beat at the start just isn't
what I'd personally call "seamless" |
| 14:58.37 |
brlcad |
it could very
well be what you intended -- you'd have to hear it for yourself
:) |
| 14:59.17 |
clock_ |
it's like
this in the original music |
| 14:59.51 |
clock_ |
xcyril: hip
hop you can download for free on jamendo |
| 15:02.56 |
clock_ |
Now Ronja
compiles several hours :) |
| 15:03.16 |
clock_ |
But still I
consider the raytracer to be fast - when it calculates all the
shadows etc. |
| 15:04.43 |
brlcad |
how many fps
are you rendering? |
| 15:04.50 |
brlcad |
for the
animation |
| 15:05.18 |
clock_ |
0.3fps |
| 15:05.23 |
clock_ |
1152x1152 |
| 15:05.32 |
clock_ |
depends on
scene comoplexity too |
| 16:09.25 |
clock_ |
Why does
material=0 cause ridiculously high mass like 10^289kg? |
| 16:11.05 |
brlcad |
probably
getting a division by zero because there's no density
set |
| 16:11.18 |
brlcad |
s/zero/near
zero/ of course |
| 16:11.48 |
brlcad |
or there's an
indexing issue there -- supposed to index from 1 up |
| 16:13.03 |
clock_ |
Maybe it's a
bug? |
| 16:13.38 |
clock_ |
If I set the
density in the density file to 0 (material=256, density 0) then it
calculates correctly |
| 16:13.45 |
clock_ |
Can I put a
line with 0 into the density file? |
| 16:14.10 |
brlcad |
i'm frankly
not sure that's been tried |
| 16:14.16 |
brlcad |
again, not
the design :) |
| 16:14.21 |
brlcad |
but go ahead
and try .. |
| 16:14.40 |
clock_ |
Why is it
called "GIFT_MATERIAL"? |
| 16:14.58 |
brlcad |
that's
ancient heritage |
| 16:15.34 |
brlcad |
gift material
codes are what the DoD uses/used to define material
properties |
| 16:15.47 |
clock_ |
So it's
retro |
| 16:16.38 |
brlcad |
GIFT was the
"Geometric Information from Targets" |
| 16:16.57 |
brlcad |
basically the
precursor to 'rt' in a way |
| 16:17.42 |
brlcad |
evolved from
the magi ray-tracer iirc |
| 16:19.05 |
brlcad |
ahh, here we
go.. |
| 16:19.20 |
brlcad |
a 1987 paper
on the topic: http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/86scotland/joined.html |
| 16:21.00 |
clock_ |
Yes it
calculates correctly even with index 0 |
| 16:24.08 |
brlcad |
good to
know |
| 16:37.37 |
clock_ |
whast is
REGION_CODE? Can it be all 1000 for all parts? |
| 16:38.06 |
clock_ |
no sorry
REGION_ID |
| 16:47.43 |
clock_ |
Now the 0'th
index doesn't work |
| 16:49.04 |
clock_ |
printf("%s",NULL) isn't something a
program should do: |
| 16:49.08 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.11 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.14 |
clock_ |
11142320660329766197282404428822493103453219925682332085413596211029096794472640917136021704128167472701500262605140476594536144399399667268753079654421883418581083831198838033283297124246427098575741106021024097346550934083463016754241736963503981200105259980151084013000927862654594585192530136845516800.000
0 100 (null) 0.0000 /chimney/chimney.r
|
| 16:53.40 |
clock_ |
When it
worked it was caused by chance |
| 16:54.08 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 17:20.36 |
clock_ |
the rtweight
produces random numbers even when I use 256 for the part that
doesn't count |
| 17:21.39 |
clock_ |
It produces
random numbers even when I make the numbers in the .density file
continuous |
| 17:21.50 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.53 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.55 |
clock_ |
5471996131684330201384988641922329570258652293616177422983661606387605959185699572608651675799621548161907052971545040885199431982865401592260667493913974039383458518276186681799389570084070369563361732356774012177516296118005292214198201381758086484754586844743669147989428832905491120128.000
6 100 Doesnt_count 0.0000 /chimney/chimney.r
|
| 17:22.00 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.03 |
clock_ |
Sometimes it
happens, sometimes not |
| 17:22.05 |
clock_ |
run from
run |
| 17:23.08 |
clock_ |
The problem
seems to be the 0 weight of the material |
| 17:23.14 |
clock_ |
when I
replace with 0.00000001 it's OK |
| 17:24.02 |
clock_ |
Where is the
source for rtweight? |
| 17:24.32 |
clock_ |
There is only
rtweight_vers.c and it's almost empty |
| 17:27.04 |
clock_ |
if
(density<0) something else if (density>0) something
else |
| 17:27.55 |
clock_ |
OK let's try
to recompile and make some spaghetti |
| 17:34.04 |
brlcad |
source is in
src/rt/view_weight.c |
| 17:34.10 |
clock_ |
now it seems
to work |
| 17:34.33 |
brlcad |
a density of
0 would be invalid |
| 17:34.43 |
clock_ |
Invalid is
<0 |
| 17:34.53 |
clock_ |
<0 prints
a message "no density specified" |
| 17:34.56 |
clock_ |
>0
calculates the density |
| 17:34.59 |
clock_ |
0 throws
dice |
| 17:35.06 |
clock_ |
And I need
density of 0. |
| 17:35.45 |
brlcad |
a density of
zero would be a pure vaccuum in space |
| 17:36.05 |
brlcad |
even air has
a non-zero density |
| 17:36.08 |
clock_ |
or an object
whose weight is not to be taken into account |
| 17:36.52 |
clock_ |
Do you want
to keep the current throw-dice-at-zero behaviour? |
| 17:37.05 |
brlcad |
well, of
course not -- that's just bad behavior |
| 17:37.22 |
clock_ |
At least you
are not like the Linux kernel or Ekiga developers |
| 17:37.29 |
clock_ |
who are
always right no matter how crappy it behaves |
| 17:38.22 |
brlcad |
nah, i'm not
defending it -- from a design standpoint it is behaving as
garbage-in->garbage-out .. but it should still behave
sensibly |
| 17:38.31 |
clock_ |
that's also
why I am not wasting time with projects like that and poke at
BRL-CAD instead |
| 17:38.58 |
brlcad |
and whether
it should support zero is another question -- i can see a use
there, so good to mod to support it |
| 17:38.59 |
clock_ |
Negative is
good too |
| 17:39.05 |
clock_ |
if you model
a body submerged in water |
| 17:39.34 |
brlcad |
hmm,
interesting |
| 17:39.54 |
clock_ |
just subtract
the density of water |
| 17:40.03 |
brlcad |
though the
density of the object itself wouldn't be changed |
| 17:40.17 |
brlcad |
that might be
better managed at a higher level where you can do the physics
better |
| 17:40.27 |
clock_ |
this does the
physics perfectly |
| 17:40.50 |
brlcad |
which is
probably where you could also deal with objects whose weight you
didn't want to take into account too |
| 17:41.12 |
clock_ |
That would
make the makefiles too complicated |
| 17:41.19 |
brlcad |
it just does
a simple density/mass calculation for you ;) |
| 17:41.23 |
clock_ |
and now it
works even when the zero entry is at index 0 ;-) |
| 17:42.15 |
clock_ |
Are you going
to include pix-y4m? |
| 17:42.42 |
brlcad |
i'd like to,
but there are a few things that would need to be
addressed |
| 17:43.20 |
clock_ |
And you would
like me to re-program it? |
| 17:43.57 |
brlcad |
no no, the
code does what it does and is useful |
| 17:44.08 |
brlcad |
the things to
be addressed are more inclusion issues |
| 17:44.23 |
brlcad |
docs,
integration |
| 17:44.48 |
brlcad |
aside from a
manpage would be nice, presently contributions request assignment
of copyright to be included |
| 17:46.04 |
brlcad |
you can still
retain authorship, and get full credit for the work -- but for
licensing purposes, there's only one copyright for the
non-public-domain portions |
| 17:47.08 |
brlcad |
this makes it
easier to relicense the code as needed down the road, since you
don't have to hunt down every contributor (and understandably, some
don't like that, but presently it's the project
position) |
| 17:48.34 |
brlcad |
it's
particularly relevant for what you wrote even as there are design
plans to turn the image processing tools into a "universal
converter" library |
| 17:49.26 |
brlcad |
in support of
that kind of design change, all of BRL-CAD's GPL code (which is
presently all the front-end applications) is going to change to
LGPL |
| 17:53.27 |
clock_ |
In Czech
Republic there is nothing like copyright therefore it's not
possible to assign it |
| 17:53.39 |
clock_ |
There is only
authorship and that's given by definition and cannot be
changed |
| 17:53.45 |
clock_ |
How it's in
Switzerland I don't know |
| 17:54.47 |
brlcad |
if there's
nothing like copyright, then why does the code have a copyright
clause? |
| 17:55.16 |
brlcad |
most licenses
are based in copyright law, especially GPL/LGPL/BSD, etc -- even
internationally |
| 17:55.45 |
clock_ |
I write (c)
<year> <author> everywhere - this is the copyright
clause? |
| 17:56.01 |
brlcad |
also, this
isn't anything new -- there are lots of major international
projects that require copyright assignment |
| 17:56.08 |
brlcad |
yes, that is
exactly what the (c) means |
| 17:56.23 |
clock_ |
I didn't know
this means anything special legally |
| 17:56.38 |
clock_ |
In CZ it
definitely doesn't mean anything it's just a text string without
any legal meaning |
| 17:56.58 |
clock_ |
I saw it
being used so I did the same by example ;-) |
| 17:57.28 |
brlcad |
I'm sure cz
actually does have some form of copyright protection |
| 17:57.36 |
clock_ |
It has author
right |
| 17:57.47 |
clock_ |
if you create
something, a right is implicitly created |
| 17:58.29 |
brlcad |
same holds in
most places |
| 17:58.42 |
clock_ |
but that
right is not transferrable |
| 17:58.47 |
clock_ |
you can only
give licence to use |
| 17:59.10 |
clock_ |
and that
right is created by the act of creation itself you don't have to
write any (c) anywhere |
| 17:59.26 |
clock_ |
if you write
(c), it's like if you didn't write anything - you have the right
regardless |
| 18:00.14 |
brlcad |
it's the same
in most places, even in the U.S., you don't *have* to write (c) --
it's automatic -- but the legal basis is weaker if you actually
have to defend something in a court |
| 18:01.08 |
brlcad |
regardless,
i'm not going to believe that czech doesn't have a means to allow
copyright assignment, though, without a solid reference |
| 18:01.12 |
brlcad |
not that it's
relevant for this |
| 18:01.40 |
clock_ |
all you can
do is give a non-exclusive licence or an exclusive
licence |
| 18:01.45 |
clock_ |
including a
licence to sublicence |
| 18:02.03 |
clock_ |
but you
cannot get rid of that copyright (in Czech terms it's called
Author's right) |
| 18:02.18 |
brlcad |
again, i
doubt that, highly doubt that as business interactions generally
require authorship transfer |
| 18:02.37 |
brlcad |
unless you
have a link to share that shows otherwise |
| 18:03.26 |
clock_ |
My GPL code
is taken from Links and it's tainted by Mikulas's code |
| 18:03.33 |
clock_ |
the
overalloc() is written by Mikulas |
| 18:03.40 |
clock_ |
so now it
already involves two people ;-) |
| 18:03.59 |
brlcad |
i'm educating
myself, hold on ;) |
| 18:04.00 |
clock_ |
I cannot
change to LGPL by myself |
| 18:06.24 |
brlcad |
looks like
Article 26(1) of cz copyright will let you grant all rights use
with unrestricted scope -- that would be sufficient for a purpose
like this |
| 18:06.38 |
brlcad |
though like
you said, you've already got joint authorship going so you can't
change it regardless |
| 18:06.53 |
clock_ |
I wouldn't
grant anyway |
| 18:07.12 |
brlcad |
which means
it really can't be included then unfortunately, unless you changed
to LGPL or BSD |
| 18:07.13 |
clock_ |
unrestricted
scope? That's ridiculous |
| 18:07.34 |
clock_ |
what if I
change to BSD but don't grant unrestricted scope? |
| 18:07.44 |
clock_ |
BSD still has
some (minimal) restrictions |
| 18:07.55 |
brlcad |
the domain of
the scope is still just that contribution ;) |
| 18:08.07 |
brlcad |
not sure what
you think it means |
| 18:08.19 |
clock_ |
but then you
could take my contribution and sell it to Microsoft ;-) |
| 18:08.58 |
clock_ |
Or you can
include one program under GPL ;-) |
| 18:09.03 |
brlcad |
technically,
that's what copyright assignment means too -- changes are provided
in good faith that the copyright holder wouldn't ever do
that |
| 18:09.18 |
clock_ |
Or make a
public version that will include the GPL program and your
contractors will get only the LGPL |
| 18:09.45 |
brlcad |
contractors? |
| 18:13.12 |
clock_ |
"this makes
it easier to relicence the code" |
| 18:13.40 |
brlcad |
here's a
rather public project that you might be familiar with that has a
decent write-up on the issues |
| 18:13.44 |
brlcad |
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/copyright/index.xml |
| 18:14.02 |
brlcad |
pretty much
the same concerns and motivations here |
| 18:14.06 |
clock_ |
Why do you
want me to licence under LGPL? |
| 18:14.38 |
brlcad |
well in
particular because the code would be likely made part of a LGPL
library if it is included |
| 18:15.03 |
clock_ |
Is the whole
BRL-CAD going to switch to LGPL? |
| 18:15.12 |
brlcad |
very
soon |
| 18:15.20 |
brlcad |
the portions
that are GPL, that is |
| 18:15.34 |
clock_ |
what licence
are the other portions? |
| 18:16.14 |
brlcad |
the build
infrastructure, benchmark suite, various scripts, and a few
contributed tools are BSD licensed |
| 18:16.39 |
clock_ |
Why are you
switching to LGPL? |
| 18:16.43 |
brlcad |
the
documentation that isn't already public domain is dual-licensed
GPL/GFDL (you choose) |
| 18:17.20 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
libraries have to remain lgpl or bsd because of the user
base |
| 18:17.31 |
clock_ |
What does it
mean because of the user base? |
| 18:18.06 |
clock_ |
I hate this
free software / open source politics ;-) |
| 18:18.09 |
brlcad |
there are
government, educational, and commercial entities that use brl-cad
for various purposes, linking to brl-cad's geometry engine and
ray-trace library for functionality |
| 18:18.25 |
brlcad |
in codes that
cannot be made open source, but are distributed |
| 18:18.30 |
clock_ |
Do they use
them in proprietary software? |
| 18:18.49 |
brlcad |
some do,
yes |
| 18:19.23 |
brlcad |
some are
classified codes with security implications (and not just U.S.,
several nations) |
| 18:19.38 |
clock_ |
Why should I
allow proprietary software to link my code? |
| 18:19.45 |
brlcad |
you don't
have to |
| 18:19.48 |
brlcad |
that's your
right |
| 18:19.54 |
clock_ |
with LGPL or
BSD you allow |
| 18:20.03 |
brlcad |
but to be
included in brl-cad, it would be required |
| 18:20.54 |
brlcad |
lgpl and bsd
let the closed codes utilize the functionality they require, and
provide a mutual benefit by promoting the software, giving credit
of use, being part of the user base, etc |
| 18:21.36 |
brlcad |
we don't
exist to push a political software agenda, my main concern is the
open flexibility and usability of brl-cad by anyone |
| 18:22.24 |
clock_ |
classified
codes and security implications |
| 18:22.41 |
clock_ |
I can't see
their codes, they won't be able to use my software ;-) |
| 18:23.13 |
brlcad |
as you
currently have it licensed, for a distributed code, that's
true |
| 18:23.27 |
brlcad |
if it's not
distributed, even gpl doesn't prevent them from using your code,
though |
| 18:23.30 |
clock_ |
why do they
need to classify anything? Good nations don't have anything to hide
;-) |
| 18:23.56 |
clock_ |
that's
right |
| 18:24.31 |
clock_ |
but what they
cannot do is that Army Subcontractor X makes an add-on
nuke-calculating package and then sells it to US Army under
classified code blah blah |
| 18:25.14 |
clock_ |
and then US
Army calculates up better nukes and will make grins at other
nations who can't calculate their nukes so well |
| 18:25.17 |
brlcad |
just about
every subcontractor is explicitly required to assign copyright to
the government, as well as all rights |
| 18:25.32 |
clock_ |
When they are
going to calculate nukes with my code, then at least everyone will
have the same opportunity |
| 18:26.01 |
brlcad |
actually,
wouldn't they just be making pretty animations of the nukes with
your code? |
| 18:26.22 |
clock_ |
whatever, but
it will help them save time ;-) |
| 18:26.31 |
clock_ |
today the
nukes aren't relevant anymore |
| 18:26.39 |
clock_ |
they have
been technically overcome by terrorism |
| 18:27.06 |
brlcad |
there are
biothreats considerably more dangerous than nukes |
| 18:27.59 |
clock_ |
like old
salad sauces? |
| 18:28.18 |
brlcad |
but I digress
.. so back to the point, if you do happen to relicense the code to
bsd or lgpl, it can be reconsidered .. but it sounds like a
non-starter on both sides for now |
| 18:28.44 |
clock_ |
I don't
really like the idea of relicensing the code |
| 18:28.53 |
brlcad |
i understand,
that's fine |
| 18:30.18 |
clock_ |
Is it legally
possible to distribute almost all files in BRL-CAD with LGPL and
one source code under GPL, while the source code and the rest don't
mutually link? |
| 18:30.19 |
brlcad |
could add it
as one of our "contributed" codes, but then you'd need a build
file, documentation, a pressing demand, and other tidbits to be
included |
| 18:30.33 |
clock_ |
what is the
pressing demand? |
| 18:31.09 |
brlcad |
I looked into
that a while back, from my reading -- you can't incorporate gpl
code into a lgpl library without it becoming a gpl
library |
| 18:31.24 |
clock_ |
but my code
is standalone it doesn't require any library |
| 18:31.51 |
brlcad |
what I said
earlier |
| 18:32.05 |
clock_ |
do you want
to put my code into a library? |
| 18:32.29 |
brlcad |
there's going
to be a "universal" image converter library made out of ost of the
image processing tools |
| 18:32.43 |
brlcad |
so you can
have an api to go to/from any image format to another |
| 18:32.59 |
brlcad |
similar to
magick's convert tool, though we could also expand into geometry
too |
| 18:33.29 |
brlcad |
aside from
just having it as a generic conversion library in itself for
reading/writing dozens of formats |
| 18:33.46 |
brlcad |
so yeah -- if
it was included, I'd want to make it part of that
library |
| 18:34.00 |
clock_ |
but that's in
long-termm isn't it? |
| 18:34.01 |
brlcad |
wouldn't make
sense to leave it out (other than the legal problem) |
| 18:34.13 |
clock_ |
and my code
is not much universal |
| 18:34.53 |
brlcad |
your code
doesn't have to be, that's the beauty of the library |
| 18:36.08 |
brlcad |
e.g. there's
a png-pix and a pix-y4m but obviously not a png-y4m, the library
would give you that functionality by tying them together for
you |
| 18:37.49 |
brlcad |
anyways,
going to LGPL is only one aspect.. like http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/copyright/index.xml
mentions, there are other legal issues like defending the code in
court against litigation, to be able to protect against misuse and
go after violations of the copyright |
| 18:38.10 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.10 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.26 |
clock_ |
Can you find
it in the viewweight.c this way or do I have to make a
patch? |
| 18:38.37 |
clock_ |
the >= was
originally only > and that was the problem |
| 18:40.31 |
clock_ |
Hehe with
LGPL my code could be incorporated into a proprietary package and
that sold to North Korea :) |
| 18:41.54 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: allow an index of 0, even
if the density is going to be 0 so that objects can be treated as
having no mass (thx clock) |
| 18:42.02 |
clock_ |
good
:) |
| 18:42.21 |
brlcad |
again, that's
pushing a political agenda that you have there -- I couldn't care
less about the political aspect :) |
| 18:43.08 |
brlcad |
i don't pick
licenses for the politics, i pick them on it helping collaboration
and allowing flexible use (by anyone for any reason) |
| 18:43.11 |
clock_ |
I publish my
code not because I don't value my work, but because I agree with
the idea of GPL. |
| 18:43.45 |
brlcad |
that's what
it's there for, more power to you |
| 18:43.49 |
clock_ |
Otherwise I
could give them into public domain easily. |
| 18:43.51 |
brlcad |
you don't
happen to run debian do you? |
| 18:43.56 |
clock_ |
no |
| 18:43.59 |
clock_ |
OpenBSD
;-) |
| 18:44.25 |
brlcad |
surprising |
| 18:44.28 |
brlcad |
most BSD
users aren't too fond of the GNU philosophy |
| 18:44.31 |
clock_ |
do I talk
like a debianist? |
| 18:44.36 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 18:44.50 |
brlcad |
debian is a
gnu propaganda machine :) |
| 18:44.55 |
clock_ |
lol
:) |
| 18:45.01 |
clock_ |
According to
my experience, debian is crap |
| 18:45.06 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 18:45.07 |
clock_ |
I didn't get
farther than the boot CD :) |
| 18:45.37 |
brlcad |
ubuntu gets
much of the same done without the bull-headed political motivations
that debian has |
| 18:45.39 |
clock_ |
I used to use
linux from scratch, gentoo, and recently (like 1 year?)
OpenBSD |
| 18:45.41 |
brlcad |
and is
considerably easier to use |
| 18:46.05 |
clock_ |
I don't care
about the politics I care more about whether the system
works |
| 18:46.17 |
clock_ |
Linux has
half of the manpages missing, too hard to use for me |
| 18:46.24 |
clock_ |
10 years of
Linux was enough ;-) |
| 18:46.33 |
brlcad |
you care at
least a little bit about the politics it sounds |
| 18:46.36 |
brlcad |
at least for
your own code |
| 18:46.57 |
clock_ |
yes |
| 18:46.58 |
brlcad |
if you have a
problem with proprietary software, you care about the
politics |
| 18:47.07 |
clock_ |
I couldn't
care less that I am using something that's BSD ;-) |
| 18:47.37 |
clock_ |
I don't like
the idea of proprietary software, because people sacrifice
efficiency of human work for monetary gain |
| 18:47.41 |
brlcad |
spent a LONG
time weighing the impact of just making all of BRL-CAD licensed
under BSD |
| 18:48.48 |
brlcad |
anyways, I
gotta run off to lift |
| 18:48.53 |
brlcad |
cya |
| 18:49.01 |
clock_ |
What I can do
is take BRL-CAD, add it to pix-y4m and then publish as Twibright
Labs Enhanced BRL-CAD, am I right? |
| 18:49.22 |
clock_ |
cu |
| 18:51.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Karel points out a mod that allows
material ID of zero in rtweight, fixes index bug. |
| 18:51.46 |
brlcad |
probably not,
as there's a trademark on the name BRL-CAD -- but you could make
the Twibright Labs CAD system (if it were BSD) |
| 18:52.36 |
brlcad |
it just
wouldn't get you much -- about as fruitful as if you forked
OpenBSD |
| 18:53.14 |
brlcad |
the project
generally has to be doing something really wrong (e.g. XFree86
-> X11) to get a major code to fork successfully and rebrand
with a maintained user group |
| 18:56.12 |
brlcad |
anyways,
really off now -- cheers |
| 19:26.18 |
clock_ |
What does the
LOS mean? |
| 19:26.24 |
clock_ |
When it's 0
and not 100 it doesn't work :) |
| 21:37.50 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.172.167) |
| 02:15.55 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@084202024060.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 03:21.04 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/on_nurb.h src/librt/g_on_nurb.c):
standard header and footer, M-x indent region |
| 03:21.46 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/Makefile.am src/librt/Makefile.am):
add new opennurbs primitive files to the source distribution
tarball. |
| 04:19.41 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168055775.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:40.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran
(n=maloeran@c510091F5.inet.catch.no) |
| 08:10.25 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:40.19 |
clock_ |
I am trying
to reverseengineer what the "rot" command does |
| 08:41.15 |
clock_ |
I already
found out the three numbers refer to rotations around axes in a way
that positive number rotates the object anticlockwise if you sit
where the axes cross and look at the axis label letter. |
| 08:41.54 |
clock_ |
However I
thought it's rotating around the axes themselves but then I tried
it on an arb6 and it didn't rotate around the X axis, but around
the side of the arb6. |
| 08:42.13 |
clock_ |
The arb6 was
defined that the X axis was going through the middle, not throught
the side. |
| 08:42.28 |
clock_ |
So it cannot
rotate neither around the combination axis nor around the object
axis |
| 08:42.35 |
clock_ |
What is it
actually rotating around? |
| 08:43.40 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for emacs lisp
files |
| 08:45.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add support for emacs lisp
files |
| 08:50.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: |
| 08:50.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
change the indent script so that it requires a path/to/directory
argument for |
| 08:50.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: some
hierarchy for the script to update. additionally, add support for
a |
| 08:50.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
plethora of other file types including c++, objc, shell script, and
emacs lisp |
| 08:50.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
files. |
| 08:51.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/ (tcl.c tpkg.c): M-x
indent-region |
| 08:53.23 |
tofu |
clock_: by
deafult, through the local coordinate axis defined for that
primitive, which for the arbs is one of the corners (turn on the
model axis on the menu and it might become more clear) |
| 08:54.09 |
tofu |
even if you
model with the global axis going through the middle, the local
coordinate system for that primitive is unchanged (it can't change
by definition) |
| 08:54.36 |
tofu |
you can also
specify which coordinate system you mean via the settings menu
(Rotate about option) |
| 08:55.57 |
clock_ |
What should I
specify to rotate about the lines in the "Coordinates - model"
cross? |
| 08:56.21 |
clock_ |
How can I
make the model coordinates cross stay permanently even if I quit
the program and restart again? |
| 08:57.58 |
clock_ |
I would like
to change the help entry for "rot" to reflect all this information.
If I do it will you accept the patch? I found out the help entry is
identically in 2 files - src/tcscripts/helplib.tcl and
src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl. Is one of them automatically generated
from the other or do I have to change it in both? |
| 08:57.58 |
tofu |
they are
permanent except for one (the view) -- there are just at least
three different cooridinates that you might be rotating about (and
there are different command-line commands for those
too) |
| 08:58.11 |
clock_ |
They are not
permanent - when I turn the coordinates on and then quit the
program and restart, they are gone and I have to turn them on
again. |
| 08:58.22 |
tofu |
oh, you mean
their display |
| 08:58.34 |
clock_ |
Yes the cross
with 3 crossing lines and letters X Y Z |
| 08:58.35 |
tofu |
because
they're still *there* .. just not shown |
| 08:58.46 |
clock_ |
I want them
to be shown permanently |
| 08:58.58 |
clock_ |
Is there
something like "Save settings"? |
| 08:59.26 |
tofu |
yeah, you can
enable that.. turn them on and then (assuming you haven't already
customized your .mgedrc) you can select "Update/create .mgedrc" on
the file menu and it should save that setting |
| 08:59.27 |
clock_ |
Because I
need them to keep sense from the model and I often quit the program
and edit again |
| 08:59.36 |
clock_ |
aha cool
:) |
| 08:59.52 |
clock_ |
And then they
will be visible for every .g file I edit? |
| 08:59.57 |
tofu |
should
be |
| 09:00.01 |
clock_ |
cool |
| 09:00.21 |
tofu |
if not for
whatever reason, it should just be a line to add to your
.mgedrc |
| 09:01.03 |
tofu |
you may want
to back up your .mgedrc if you have edited it manually before
hitting the update |
| 09:01.22 |
tofu |
as it can
blow away changes if they're in the wrong part of the
file |
| 09:02.44 |
clock_ |
But I
realized these axes can be turned separately for each of the four
panes in the multipane |
| 09:02.53 |
clock_ |
But in the
.mgedrc I found only one place |
| 09:02.59 |
clock_ |
How does that
correspond together? |
| 09:03.14 |
tofu |
ah, you use
multipane |
| 09:03.36 |
tofu |
there are
different variables for the other panes.. which I can't remember
off the top of my head |
| 09:03.42 |
clock_ |
And I want
these axes to be in all 4 they are useful |
| 09:03.54 |
clock_ |
So I set them
in all panes and then save |
| 09:03.55 |
tofu |
but you will
probably have to add the other three by hand, or let it auto-enable
all four |
| 09:04.32 |
clock_ |
I also asked
a question about helplib.tcl etc. |
| 09:04.37 |
tofu |
i don't think
bob ever added multipane storage |
| 09:04.37 |
clock_ |
Do you know
the answer? |
| 09:04.55 |
clock_ |
What is
auto-enable? |
| 09:04.58 |
tofu |
yeah, the
patch would be accepted, of course -- assuming it actually makes
sense :) |
| 09:05.03 |
tofu |
as for the
two files |
| 09:05.17 |
clock_ |
What happens
if I patch the two files differently? |
| 09:05.28 |
tofu |
they are
identical, and have to both be updated separately unfortunately
(one is used by mged, the other by archer) |
| 09:05.37 |
clock_ |
What is
archer? |
| 09:06.01 |
tofu |
something you
haven't seen yet and probably need not worry about yet either
:) |
| 09:06.13 |
clock_ |
some old
predecessor of mged? |
| 09:06.22 |
tofu |
but it's
basically a rewrite of mged in progress with an improved user
interface |
| 09:06.30 |
tofu |
postdecessor |
| 09:07.16 |
tofu |
it was only
integrated a few iterations ago, and not even fully intergrated
into the build yet (so there's only a Windows binary at the moment,
and a few linux ones somewhere) |
| 09:07.31 |
clock_ |
Is it better
than mged? |
| 09:07.50 |
tofu |
depends what
your considerations are |
| 09:08.17 |
tofu |
it's not done
in the least, so as a production tool to replace mged -- no, it's
not "better" |
| 09:08.22 |
clock_ |
I think I
need to learn more about the LGPL |
| 09:08.28 |
tofu |
but it is in
a "better" direction, and better designed |
| 09:08.33 |
clock_ |
To really be
sure I don't want to release my code under LGPL |
| 09:08.43 |
clock_ |
Maybe I will
realize it's not so bad :) |
| 09:11.05 |
tofu |
if you're
familiar with creative commons, LGPL is sort of like the
attribution, share-alike CC license version |
| 09:11.21 |
clock_ |
So it's like
BSD? |
| 09:11.49 |
tofu |
somewhere
between bsd and gpl |
| 09:11.49 |
clock_ |
The obvious
advantage of LGPL and BSD is that you don't run into the following
problem |
| 09:12.05 |
clock_ |
I wanted to
make a video and use a soundtrack, but the video used GFDL image
and the soundtrack was CC-BY-SA |
| 09:12.19 |
clock_ |
The licences
mean the same but are mutually incompatible so it would be illegal
to do it |
| 09:12.28 |
clock_ |
I had to
write to the author and wait for the answer |
| 09:12.40 |
tofu |
the
difference basically being that if you make a mod to the lgpl code
that you used, and publish software that uses that lgpl code, then
you have to make those modifications available (bsd does not
require this) |
| 09:13.23 |
clock_ |
So that if I
link with a LGPL library and sell a proprietary program, I don't
have to disclose. But if I mod that library I have to disclose,
right? |
| 09:13.41 |
tofu |
only any mods
to the library |
| 09:13.48 |
tofu |
your code is
your code, their code is theirs |
| 09:14.18 |
tofu |
it's not
"infectious", but does require disclosure of changes
made |
| 09:14.44 |
clock_ |
And what do
you need? |
| 09:14.53 |
tofu |
what do you
mean? |
| 09:14.58 |
clock_ |
Can I keep
the *.c file on the web GPL and just tell you you can use it under
LGPL? |
| 09:15.06 |
clock_ |
Or do you
need me to publish that file under LGPL? |
| 09:16.47 |
tofu |
hmm, it would
have to be lgpl'd proper. I cannot update/modify exiting clauses
that aren't under my domain |
| 09:17.09 |
clock_ |
So if I
release that under LGPL it's OK? |
| 09:17.56 |
tofu |
technically,
not necessarily |
| 09:18.11 |
tofu |
there's still
the issue of copyright, which is separate from the
license |
| 09:18.45 |
tofu |
and as you
mentioned, that can't be changed without you "giving away all
rights", which you don't like (and I agree/understand why you
wouldn't) |
| 09:19.09 |
clock_ |
I can't give
away these rights |
| 09:20.20 |
clock_ |
I don't
understand why you cannot take LGPL |
| 09:20.44 |
clock_ |
If you are a
LGPL project you can completely legally collect any LGPL pieces of
code around the Web and just insert them into your work |
| 09:20.48 |
tofu |
did you read
the copyright assignment link I posted? that went into
considerable detail |
| 09:21.01 |
clock_ |
No |
| 09:22.02 |
tofu |
there are two
main camps on this issue -- those that require assignment (which we
are in) and those that do not |
| 09:22.28 |
tofu |
you might be
surprised to find out, but there are vast numbers in both camps,
and benefits and negatives to both positions |
| 09:22.33 |
clock_ |
And FSF also
requires assignment, right? |
| 09:22.46 |
tofu |
for many of
their projects, yes |
| 09:23.00 |
tofu |
can't speak
for all of them, though -- they have hundreds |
| 09:23.09 |
clock_ |
What you can
legally do is |
| 09:23.22 |
tofu |
but like, the
gnu build tools -- autoconf, automake, etc .. those all require
assignment for example |
| 09:23.23 |
clock_ |
a) Write an
empty file (c) Sean Morrison |
| 09:23.30 |
clock_ |
b) release
that under LGPL |
| 09:24.06 |
clock_ |
c) put my
changes in. Now it's your work but derived from mine. The
derivation was legal because it was according to my licence
terms |
| 09:24.15 |
clock_ |
d) assign the
copyright of your work to BRL-CAD |
| 09:24.53 |
tofu |
heh |
| 09:25.11 |
tofu |
if people
could do that, gpl would have no weight behind it |
| 09:25.34 |
clock_ |
If an empty
file doesn't stand up to 'statistical uniqueness' you just do it
with an existing piece of library code because you said you are
going to integrate it into a library anyway |
| 09:25.47 |
clock_ |
They
can |
| 09:25.57 |
tofu |
you chose
gpl, and it's rather explicit -- even my derivative would be
required to be GPL |
| 09:26.05 |
clock_ |
The fact that
a work is a derived one doesn't in any way diminish the fact it's
your work |
| 09:26.34 |
clock_ |
Actually you
cannot |
| 09:26.48 |
clock_ |
because my
(c) notice has to be kept there according to LGPL |
| 09:27.39 |
tofu |
well, you
said make a derivative, so i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt
-- say I did make a true derivative and didn't just
copy/paste |
| 09:27.57 |
tofu |
i'm still
obligated to gpl the derivative, that's a requirement in
gpl |
| 09:28.08 |
clock_ |
Or you can
look how my program works, get the idea and just write it
again |
| 09:28.27 |
clock_ |
That's a
perfecrly legal way how to get the same functionality with ARL
copyright |
| 09:28.59 |
clock_ |
change couple
of variable names and function names, shuffle some comments and I
won't sue you over infringement :) |
| 09:29.00 |
tofu |
that's a
derivative .. I'd have to do the whole "clean room" thing where
someone relays ideas from another room approach, and it's frankly
not worth it for all but the most difficult drivers :) |
| 09:30.00 |
clock_ |
Why? What
happens if you just rename couple of things in my code and say you
wrote it once more? |
| 09:31.35 |
clock_ |
this is like
coming to a homeless who needs food and saying "take some of my
food" and he says "no that's illegal you have to stick it into my
mouth" and I say "no your mouth smells I am not going to approach
my fingers to your mouth" |
| 09:32.06 |
clock_ |
So I start
finding a possible loophole in the law how he can legally steal it
from my shopping bag when I want to give it to him :) |
| 09:32.49 |
tofu |
if you
*really* want to have it included, you're going to have to change
it on your end, not on mine -- maybe e-mail that legal team that
helps with issues, they might have an idea given your country's
assignment issues -- it could very well be the case that you are
allowed to assign copyright under U.S. law, just not under your
own |
| 09:33.54 |
clock_ |
"nforcement
of copyright is generally not possible for distributors" - isn't a
copyright violation a criminal offence? |
| 09:34.00 |
tofu |
actually,
it's more like telling the homeless guy that there's free food and
a warm bed in upstate new york.. but he lives downtown .. doesn't
really help |
| 09:34.17 |
clock_ |
It's like
saying "if you murder someone, only the murdered can sue you - the
state attorney is completely helpless against the
criminal" |
| 09:34.41 |
clock_ |
In CZ it's a
criminal offence. |
| 09:35.09 |
tofu |
in most
countries it is |
| 09:35.16 |
tofu |
but copyright
is also per country |
| 09:35.40 |
tofu |
some
countries require you to register to obtain copyright, some require
fees, some don't etc |
| 09:36.07 |
clock_ |
But if I
assign my copyright to you then you start owning the code and you
can sue me over it's distribution |
| 09:36.15 |
tofu |
US
government, for example, cannot *claim* copyright on original works
in the US, but they can in every other country on the
planet |
| 09:37.45 |
clock_ |
It's like
giving a homeless a shelter and he sais "sorry I have concerns that
someone could say I am burlarizing your house - I need you to
assign the ownership of your house to me - but I promise I will
allow you to still live there." |
| 09:38.57 |
clock_ |
If the courts
worked according to the law, it would be a different issue. But
sometimes it works that they compare who has more money, or a DoS
attack is mounted against a weak victim using the lawyer
fees. |
| 09:38.59 |
tofu |
not a bad
analogy actually |
| 09:39.34 |
clock_ |
ARL comes to
the judge, lobbies and bye bye |
| 09:39.46 |
tofu |
so leave it
as is, you don't want to go that route, and frankly neither do
I |
| 09:39.49 |
clock_ |
And I should
assign copyright to face that risk? |
| 09:40.15 |
tofu |
heh, "ARL
comes to the judge" |
| 09:40.37 |
tofu |
you can't
just sue the gov't, at least the u.s. govt -- they have to let you
sue them |
| 09:40.56 |
clock_ |
I can't sue
them, but they can sue me - great :) |
| 09:41.23 |
tofu |
seriously
though |
| 09:41.31 |
clock_ |
And when I
say fuck off they kindnap me and bring to the guantanamo - I can't
hold myself from assigning copyright to the US govmt |
| 09:41.34 |
tofu |
more trouble
than it's worth |
| 09:41.40 |
tofu |
you don't
even have a manpage written ;) |
| 09:42.14 |
clock_ |
I was
expecting some problems so I delayed writing a manpage after I see
my code will be really useful |
| 09:42.55 |
tofu |
we're not
even to the point of determining whether it's technically
beneficial to add the tool as is -- it'd need work to polish it up
for production use |
| 09:43.23 |
tofu |
stuck talking
about copyrights |
| 09:43.28 |
clock_ |
yes but now I
see there is a bureaucratical problem that prevents me from
contributing any code |
| 09:43.44 |
clock_ |
Except
patches, obviously |
| 09:44.20 |
clock_ |
Better than
writing a lot of code and taking care about proper manpage,
commandline flags and then realizing I don't want to assign
copyright to the US government |
| 09:44.55 |
clock_ |
Like there
have been cases when a cryptography expert was put into jail just
because he had a lecture - completely ridiculous things are going
on in the US |
| 09:45.05 |
clock_ |
I don't want
to entangle into this stuff unless absolutely necessayr |
| 09:46.22 |
clock_ |
Or a
programmer who came to US by plane was put into jail because he was
Arabian |
| 09:47.01 |
tofu |
unless you
either 1) enter an agreement that requires assignment upon creation
(that seems to be what gentoo is doing, so you technically never
hold copyright, hence never transfer), or 2) release it public
domain or 3) stick to patches perhaps |
| 09:47.04 |
clock_ |
They just
determined he was a terrorist - and then it came out he isn't. The
only way to be completely safe seems to not having anythhing common
with the States. |
| 09:47.25 |
clock_ |
Why should I
give away even a tiny bit from my safety when I get nothing? I am
just giving in this case |
| 09:48.03 |
tofu |
why are you
asking me? |
| 09:48.10 |
tofu |
i'm not
asking you |
| 09:48.22 |
clock_ |
I understand
BRL-CAD is giving me a huge benefit, but I am going to get that
benefit even if I don't assign the copyright :) |
| 09:49.27 |
tofu |
yes, yet the
same mentality you're taking is the same fearmongering that I had
to fight for almost 5 years just to get it released as open
source |
| 09:49.48 |
clock_ |
I am not
fearmongering. The US are fearmongering/ |
| 09:50.26 |
tofu |
seriously,
clock, I'm not going to get into politics -- it's a pointless
discussion |
| 09:50.53 |
clock_ |
Sorry I just
wanted to explain that I am not acting irrationally |
| 09:51.12 |
clock_ |
Deciding to
assign to say FSF would be probably easier for me |
| 09:51.15 |
tofu |
i don't think
politics should come into play with the licensing, nor should it be
a factor in the consideration of most computing issues, especially
software |
| 09:51.35 |
clock_ |
I didn't want
you to have a feeling that I am doing it because I am mean or I
want to impose arbitrary restrictions on you |
| 09:51.43 |
tofu |
there's
plenty to be done that menefits the software by itself, for the
sake of the software and the industry without getting into the
politics |
| 09:51.48 |
clock_ |
Like write a
little piece of code and then having fun dictating you the
licence |
| 09:52.16 |
clock_ |
I can update
the help files |
| 09:52.25 |
clock_ |
DO you mind
if the help entry will be say 10 lines of text? |
| 09:52.33 |
clock_ |
Is there some
requirement it has to be short? |
| 09:52.45 |
tofu |
I don't care
if you're acting rationally or not -- you are making a decision
motivated by your own personal politics and that's your decision,
your right, your perrogative -- so be it, just don't try to get me
to agree with that decision (that's my right) |
| 09:53.21 |
tofu |
the help
entry should be "succint" |
| 09:53.49 |
clock_ |
But is there
a place where more detailed description can be entered? |
| 09:54.05 |
clock_ |
This entry
was so succinct I was unable to imagine almost anything how it
works |
| 09:54.07 |
tofu |
in the mged
documentation |
| 09:54.20 |
clock_ |
But that's
impractical to work |
| 09:54.23 |
clock_ |
work
with |
| 09:54.27 |
tofu |
the command
html reference |
| 09:54.34 |
tofu |
i dont' mean
the book |
| 09:54.37 |
tofu |
i mean on the
help menu |
| 09:54.49 |
clock_ |
Where is the
help menu? |
| 09:54.54 |
tofu |
it's.. |
| 09:54.56 |
tofu |
on the help
menu |
| 09:55.03 |
clock_ |
Do you mean
that if I type "help" it prints all the entries so they have to be
short? |
| 09:55.09 |
tofu |
no |
| 09:55.16 |
clock_ |
I have File
Edit Create etc. but no Help |
| 09:55.25 |
tofu |
keep looking
:) |
| 09:56.08 |
tofu |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 09:56.12 |
tofu |
see the ..
"Help" menu? |
| 09:59.47 |
tofu |
aiight, time
to z, cya later |
| 10:20.23 |
clock_ |
Oh, the Help
is to the right! |
| 10:21.07 |
clock_ |
Wow! Help on
context! |
| 10:28.52 |
clock_ |
Does the VRML
and X3D export work? |
| 11:29.29 |
clock_ |
I saw the
picture of Mike Muus in the help |
| 11:29.39 |
clock_ |
Did he have a
wife and children? |
| 13:12.16 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (6 files): Remove the
"extra qualifications" in these files to quell the errors now
spewed by g++ since 4.1+ |
| 13:17.07 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.07 |
clock_ |
nmg_break_all_es_on_v() code=2, why wasn't
this vertex fused? |
| 13:17.07 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.25 |
clock_ |
[...] |
| 13:17.27 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.27 |
clock_ |
find_best_vu:
There is a loop to cut, lu=x7d01a400 |
| 13:17.27 |
clock_ |
find_best_vu:
There is a loop to cut |
| 13:17.27 |
clock_ |
bu_bomb():
taking longjmp up to application handler |
| 13:17.27 |
clock_ |
conversion of
/tetrax/yellow.r FAILED!!! |
| 13:17.48 |
clock_ |
I tried to
run g-vrml. Do these messages mean that the resulting VRML is
broken? |
| 13:17.54 |
clock_ |
Or that parts
are mimsisng? |
| 14:44.11 |
``Erik |
missing
parts, as described by the {()} syntax |
| 14:45.25 |
clock_ |
Why is this
happening? |
| 14:45.40 |
clock_ |
The model
displays OK, animates OK, there are no overlaps printed |
| 20:31.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran
(n=maloeran@c510091F5.inet.catch.no) |
| 21:32.21 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 01:02.47 |
brlcad |
what exactly
was the breakage? |
| 01:03.07 |
``Erik |
width
differences on 64b fbsd |
| 01:03.28 |
``Erik |
mostly just
-Wall -W -Werror -ansi -pedantic hunting *shrug* |
| 01:03.43 |
``Erik |
admin -o 'em
if you want *shrug* |
| 01:04.07 |
brlcad |
cvs admin is
the devil |
| 01:04.18 |
``Erik |
(everyone
else who read that cmd, forget it now. seriously. flush it out of
your brain. it's a nuclear command.) |
| 01:04.38 |
brlcad |
no
kidding |
| 01:05.06 |
brlcad |
if I have to
restore a cvs backup, i'd be removing commit access at the same
time |
| 01:05.14 |
brlcad |
admin is
baaad |
| 01:05.25 |
brlcad |
anyways, the
actual error though? |
| 01:05.53 |
brlcad |
was it on the
cast on the malloc() link in bu_malloc()? |
| 01:05.54 |
``Erik |
meh, I don't
remember off the top of my head, I actually modified my checkout in
december... |
| 01:06.09 |
brlcad |
or on a
caller to bu_malloc() |
| 01:06.22 |
``Erik |
the
bu_malloc<->malloc relationship |
| 01:06.35 |
brlcad |
heh, well
that's true with either |
| 01:08.00 |
``Erik |
<-- got a
hair up his arse to do the anal flags thing, got that far and got
busy with other things *shrug* |
| 01:18.03 |
brlcad |
hmm, I'll
have to let it simmer a bit .. the biggest impact is adding another
dep to the bu interface (even though there are a few others that
sprinkle in size_t too) |
| 01:18.49 |
brlcad |
given the
move to allow anything that is strict ansi 89 complaint, I think
most of the old reasons vanish |
| 01:19.23 |
brlcad |
not sure if
size_t is 89, but it's at least 99 so it just adds a header dep on
stddefs.h |
| 01:31.20 |
Maloeran |
size_t is
C89 |
| 01:38.51 |
``Erik |
when we merge
rayforce in, it'll induce c99 as a requirement (for that
part) |
| 01:39.33 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, it's
all pretty much C99 |
| 01:41.39 |
``Erik |
what, c89 vs
c99 vs, uh, vax k&r? |
| 01:41.58 |
``Erik |
emacs vs vim
vs alltheothercrap? |
| 01:42.06 |
Maloeran |
Oh, no :).
Old good religious debates, you know... Reason versus absurd
theories |
| 01:42.12 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 01:42.21 |
``Erik |
reason vs
absurity... so... vim vs emacs... |
| 01:42.22 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 02:01.49 |
brlcad |
out of
curiosity, what c99isms? |
| 02:03.18 |
brlcad |
i recall
seeing a lot of GNUisms, but not so much c99isms |
| 02:04.55 |
brlcad |
nothing wrong
with making c99 allowable too, it was on the plate for next year --
just strict c89 was the "next step" and a lot of cleanup in
itself |
| 02:14.31 |
Maloeran |
C99 data
types, restrict keyword, variable-length arrays... I think the rest
is gnu99 |
| 02:15.43 |
``Erik |
scoped
functions? (function definitions inside of functions) |
| 02:16.07 |
Maloeran |
No nested
functions, that was in the old code |
| 02:16.07 |
``Erik |
or didja not
go that route? |
| 02:16.13 |
``Erik |
aight |
| 02:18.18 |
brlcad |
why do I get
the feeling the code has never been compiled with anything but gcc?
:) |
| 02:19.17 |
Maloeran |
Ahaha. I'm
not sure, can you answer that Erik? :) |
| 02:20.25 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:31.41 |
Maloeran |
It should be
reasonably portable ; 32, 64 or X bits, IEEE or non-IEEE floats,
GNU'isms with alternative paths... It still needs testing in other
environments |
| 02:36.04 |
``Erik |
I'm sure
mipspro or sunpro would puke |
| 02:36.33 |
Maloeran |
They are C99,
right? |
| 02:36.41 |
``Erik |
don't think
so... |
| 02:36.52 |
``Erik |
d'no if
tendra is |
| 02:37.27 |
brlcad |
they both
support c99 .. it's more what exact headers are allowed and what
mode you tell the compile in by default |
| 02:37.27 |
``Erik |
huh,
cool |
| 02:37.47 |
brlcad |
default
behavior (akin to gcc's gnu99 mixed default) is a hybrid that might
turn off some c99 stuff |
| 02:38.13 |
brlcad |
my faith in
sunpro's capacity to compile c99 strict is weak |
| 02:38.48 |
brlcad |
last time I
was working on sunpro, if you told the compiler to go strict, it
would puke on its own system headers being non-compliant and
abort |
| 02:38.57 |
``Erik |
hehehe,
sweet |
| 02:41.44 |
brlcad |
yeah, i was
amused |
| 08:21.19 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:36.20 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:48.15 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 13:54.36 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:02.27 |
rossberg |
question from
yesterday: what's the problem with vers.c on Windows? |
| 14:37.35 |
clock_ |
And, what's
the assumed for the pix files when rendering textures? |
| 14:37.45 |
clock_ |
assumed ->
assumed gamma |
| 15:00.07 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:09.23 |
brlcad |
dout! |
| 15:10.40 |
brlcad |
clock_: i
don't know if there's another language barrier coming into play,
but i answered yesterday that it entirely depends on the shader(s)
being used |
| 15:11.09 |
brlcad |
there's no
"gamma value" that will answer that question that covers all the
various shaders |
| 15:12.07 |
clock_ |
What are the
shaders that can map pixmaps? |
| 15:12.26 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean by map pixmaps? |
| 15:12.36 |
clock_ |
cause pixmaps
to appear on objects |
| 15:12.37 |
brlcad |
you can stack
*any* shader on top of any other |
| 15:12.54 |
brlcad |
each layer is
effectively a filter |
| 15:13.06 |
clock_ |
subtractive
or multiplicative filter? |
| 15:13.21 |
brlcad |
arbitrary,
depends on the shader |
| 15:13.30 |
brlcad |
that's the
whole point |
| 15:13.45 |
clock_ |
How do I make
a cube which is painted with a pixmap? |
| 15:13.53 |
clock_ |
plastic +
bitmap shader? |
| 15:14.05 |
brlcad |
that's one
way |
| 15:14.17 |
clock_ |
and what will
be the assumed gamma of the pixmap in that case? |
| 15:14.57 |
brlcad |
what answer
will make you happy? |
| 15:15.05 |
clock_ |
the correct
one |
| 15:15.50 |
clock_ |
Or - if you
don't understand the question - |
| 15:16.04 |
clock_ |
what happens
with the pixmap when it enters the shader? |
| 15:16.12 |
clock_ |
How is it
interpreted, or for what is it used? |
| 15:16.43 |
brlcad |
i actually
just get the feeling that you're not understanding my
answer |
| 15:18.15 |
clock_ |
I want to
know with what gamma I should generate the pixfiles |
| 15:18.15 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
boil down to the same gamma metric you have with the display, you
have the values in the image file that are parsed
directly |
| 15:18.16 |
clock_ |
where do I
figure this out or how do I figure this out? |
| 15:18.16 |
brlcad |
i suppose you
could "say" that they're linearly looked up |
| 15:18.25 |
brlcad |
but that
isn't entirely true in itself as it still depends on the
light |
| 15:19.13 |
clock_ |
linearly
looked up == gamma is 1.0? |
| 15:19.53 |
brlcad |
probably the
closest corrollary, but again, that's not entirely valid
mapping |
| 15:20.08 |
clock_ |
what is a
corollary and what is a valid mapping? |
| 15:20.19 |
clock_ |
I want to
know the gamma I should encode it with! |
| 15:20.33 |
clock_ |
Or at least
tell me how it's calculated inside |
| 15:21.11 |
clock_ |
In the worst
cause if I don't manage to pry the answer from you, I can try
putting pixels with values of 64 and 128 and look at ratio of the
resulting values ;-) |
| 15:21.24 |
clock_ |
determine by
an experiment ;-) |
| 15:22.48 |
brlcad |
ray is fired
at scene, intersection is found with an object, that object has a
texture shader and a phong shader, texture value is looked up and
combined with light visibility from that position in 3-space, that
intensity is combined with the phong shader's intensity lookup that
is similarly based on light intensity at that point, but also takes
into account shadowing, specularity/diffusion parameters based on
object curvature |
| 15:23.01 |
brlcad |
that's the
jist of "how it's calculated" |
| 15:23.42 |
clock_ |
texture value
is looked up that means we take a value triplet from the input
pixfile, right? |
| 15:24.45 |
clock_ |
like if there
is say 0x80 0x80 0x40 in the pixfile, then we take 0x80, 0x80,
0x40... |
| 15:24.51 |
brlcad |
and on top of
all of that, the resulting image map is then mapped to a
framebuffer which can apply a gamma adjustment, which is then
displayed in a display manager window which can also perform a
gamma adjustment |
| 15:25.53 |
clock_ |
What I am
interested in is "texture value is looked up and combined with
light visibility from that position in 3-space, that intensity
is |
| 15:25.56 |
clock_ |
..." |
| 15:26.16 |
clock_ |
What does the
"combined" exacly comprise? multiplying the pixmap triplet with the
light triplex? |
| 15:26.28 |
clock_ |
triplet |
| 15:27.42 |
brlcad |
basically
yes, through a settable weighting factor that is part of the phong
shader |
| 15:28.25 |
clock_ |
is there some
exponential function applied to the pixfile before it is multiplied
with the ray? |
| 15:28.52 |
clock_ |
So if I
understand it correctly, the pixmap value defines directly (with
some scaling) how much the object reflects light at that
point? |
| 15:29.08 |
brlcad |
not that
comes to mind |
| 15:29.32 |
brlcad |
no, it
doesn't determine how much is actually reflected -- phong does
that |
| 15:29.56 |
clock_ |
OK lemme
express more precisely |
| 15:30.06 |
clock_ |
if you have
some pixel value in the pix file say 10 |
| 15:30.18 |
clock_ |
and the pixel
happens to reflect 10% light |
| 15:30.35 |
brlcad |
ok |
| 15:30.39 |
clock_ |
and you
increase the value in the pix file to 20, now the pixel will
reflect 20% of light? |
| 15:31.25 |
brlcad |
you mean 20%
of that 20 intensity? |
| 15:31.39 |
clock_ |
no I mean
that the number of photons will double |
| 15:31.49 |
clock_ |
if you
imagine the scene like a pinball with photons |
| 15:31.57 |
clock_ |
a photon == a
pingpong ball |
| 15:32.34 |
brlcad |
if the pix
file has 10 and phong determines reflectance of 10%, the pixel will
be intensity 1 -- increase the pix file to 20 and with that same
reflectance of 10% will result in a pixel intensity of
2 |
| 15:33.00 |
clock_ |
yes that
makes sense |
| 15:33.04 |
clock_ |
this is what
I wanted to know |
| 15:33.12 |
clock_ |
in other
word, the gamma of the input pixfile is 1.0 |
| 15:33.49 |
brlcad |
that is where
we diverge |
| 15:34.31 |
brlcad |
maybe to say
that "when combined with phong paraameters that give a gamma of
1.0", yes the gamma of the input pixfile is 1.0 |
| 15:34.40 |
clock_ |
For me,
"double the value in the pixfile and the pixel intensity doubles"
is enough for me |
| 15:35.14 |
archivist |
reflection is
linear |
| 15:36.01 |
brlcad |
that it
is |
| 15:36.13 |
clock_ |
The other
possible meaningful implementation would be that someone would
realize that the 8-bit values in the input pix file cause a banding
near 0 because of insufficient colour depth |
| 15:36.29 |
clock_ |
and would
insert a power-to-2.2 function between loading the pixfile and
sending it into the shader |
| 15:37.08 |
clock_ |
but according
to what you are saying, it's not this way |
| 15:37.17 |
brlcad |
you could
leave the pix file unmodified and make a non-linear light too, or a
non-linear shader, or in the display manager too |
| 15:38.02 |
clock_ |
no that would
produce corrupted image |
| 15:38.06 |
brlcad |
banding is a
visual artifact of the end result -- the math occurs in floating
point |
| 15:38.19 |
clock_ |
the pixfile
isn't in floating point |
| 15:38.39 |
brlcad |
i didn't say
it is |
| 15:46.32 |
clock_ |
can I imagine
the bitmap shader like there is an image printed on the object and
the pixfile gives reflectivities in the individual
places? |
| 15:47.25 |
brlcad |
like a bump
map? |
| 15:47.30 |
brlcad |
there is a
bump map shader |
| 15:47.39 |
clock_ |
no |
| 15:47.58 |
clock_ |
bump map is
something where the shape of the surface is supposed to be
distorted, isn't it? |
| 15:48.09 |
brlcad |
only visually
distorted |
| 15:48.25 |
brlcad |
by changing
reflectivities at various places based on the image |
| 15:48.48 |
dtidrow |
a
displacement map would actually distort the surface |
| 15:48.49 |
clock_ |
I always saw
the bump map for something that modulates the normal
vector |
| 15:48.55 |
clock_ |
like embossed
relief |
| 15:49.08 |
dtidrow |
basically,
yes |
| 15:49.16 |
clock_ |
no I don't
mean bummap |
| 15:49.48 |
clock_ |
I mean like
if I want to render say a soda can |
| 15:49.58 |
brlcad |
clock_: yes,
and if you look at the edge of something that has a bump map, it's
got a nice non-bumpy smooth edge |
| 15:50.00 |
clock_ |
the soda can
is cylinder and they printed something on that using offset
print |
| 15:50.11 |
clock_ |
the soda can
is not wrinkled in any way |
| 15:50.49 |
clock_ |
or I want to
render a room that has a mural (painting) on a wall |
| 15:51.00 |
clock_ |
then I want
pixmap and not bumpmap, right? |
| 15:51.24 |
brlcad |
you'd
generally want both for the visual effect |
| 15:51.51 |
brlcad |
or actually
model the paint if you're going to do it "right" in a solid
modeling realm |
| 15:52.12 |
clock_ |
you mean like
simulating the fact that the paint adds thickness to the
object? |
| 15:53.08 |
clock_ |
That's how I
modeled a smoke flue that is painted black inside and white
outside |
| 15:53.09 |
brlcad |
shaders are
just visual effects, mostly "fake" per-se .. if you care about the
actual material properties of even something like paint, you'd give
it a physical representation and model it |
| 15:53.15 |
clock_ |
0.5mm thin
and 0.1mm paint inside |
| 15:53.19 |
clock_ |
thin ->
tin |
| 15:54.05 |
clock_ |
but that's a
bit tedious process when it's not just a whole surface painted but
I want a Ronja logo on it |
| 15:54.13 |
clock_ |
then I could
use the pixmap instead, couldn't I? |
| 15:54.27 |
brlcad |
you can
generate geometry from pixmaps |
| 15:54.48 |
brlcad |
similar to
how the circuitry was modeled in the principles book |
| 15:55.24 |
brlcad |
at least I
think it covered the circuitry modeling.. that was how it was done
regardless |
| 15:55.46 |
brlcad |
in general,
solid modeling is tedious ;) |
| 15:56.26 |
clock_ |
I wouldn't
say |
| 15:56.38 |
clock_ |
after I
learned the meaning of the matrix |
| 15:57.01 |
brlcad |
the tool(s)
hopefully make it less tedious, but the goal of getting something
that is physically accurate (instead of just visually accurate or
"close enough") generally requires providing a lot of detail that
you wouldn't intuitively think you'd need sometimes but you
do |
| 15:57.15 |
clock_ |
cxsx cxsy
cxsz cx+= cysx cysy cysz cy+= czsx czsy czsz cz+= 0 0 0
1 |
| 15:57.45 |
clock_ |
I don't use
the click-click rotations and shifts anymore, I enter the matrices
directly in vi and it's fast to model |
| 15:58.36 |
brlcad |
that's good,
but is that more the efficiency of vi or the deficiency of mged?
I'd say it's more the latter |
| 15:58.59 |
clock_ |
I use mged
only for rotations that are not multiple of 90deg |
| 15:59.04 |
brlcad |
although that
particular feature of using an external text editor to modify
matrices is in mged too |
| 15:59.06 |
clock_ |
which is say
1% of the model |
| 15:59.19 |
clock_ |
I would
appreciate if I didn |
| 15:59.24 |
clock_ |
t have to
type the trailing 0 0 0 1 |
| 15:59.47 |
clock_ |
I made a file
/home/clock/m containing 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 and that's
a highly valuable tool :) |
| 16:00.05 |
clock_ |
in vi I type
:r ~/m and I have a matrix and then I edit one number and I am
happy :) |
| 16:00.48 |
clock_ |
Is it allowed
to use tabs instead of spaced in red? |
| 16:01.35 |
brlcad |
clock_: if
you have your EDITOR var set before running mged, give 'red
object.r' a try |
| 16:01.51 |
clock_ |
I am using
red object.r |
| 16:02.03 |
brlcad |
ah,
okay |
| 16:02.37 |
brlcad |
tabs should
work fine, I think it's any whitespace |
| 16:02.37 |
clock_ |
plus the
green axes are also invaluable :) |
| 16:02.50 |
brlcad |
if not that'd
be stupid and would be trivial to fix |
| 16:03.05 |
clock_ |
can I even
split the line into multiple ones - using \n as
whitespace? |
| 16:03.20 |
brlcad |
that's what I
mean, I believe so .. |
| 16:03.28 |
clock_ |
wow that's
cool :) |
| 16:03.36 |
brlcad |
if it doesn't
work, let me know and I'll fix it |
| 16:03.41 |
brlcad |
but it
certainly "should" |
| 16:04.04 |
brlcad |
pretty sure
it used to work that way |
| 16:04.07 |
clock_ |
Then I put
the matrix tab-separated on 4 lines |
| 16:04.40 |
clock_ |
is it
possible to easily patch the red so it puts the matrix there even
if it's a unit matrix? |
| 16:16.19 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
think with your information I will be able to generate a picture
correctly where the colours of the pixmap are not
deformed |
| 16:16.41 |
clock_ |
so it would
look like the assumed physical reality |
| 16:25.29 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: even if the matrix is an
identity matrix, print it so that the user has a starting point.
add a comment about using red with a read-only db. |
| 16:25.55 |
clock_ |
wow
:) |
| 16:26.19 |
clock_ |
can you make
the matrix to be formatted with tabs and spread over 4 lines and
indented by 1 tab? |
| 16:26.24 |
clock_ |
Then it would
be even easier to edit |
| 16:26.38 |
clock_ |
and now when
can I downloaded this CVS brlcad? |
| 16:26.45 |
clock_ |
when ->
where? |
| 16:37.26 |
brlcad |
have to make
sure multiline works first |
| 16:37.37 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: massive ws cleanup, make braces
consistently match hacking style |
| 16:41.27 |
clock_ |
I have a
complicated model of almost whole Ronja installation |
| 16:41.31 |
clock_ |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:41.47 |
clock_ |
some of the
files can be termporarily incomplete/empty/absent because I am
rsyncing at the moment |
| 16:42.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libbu routine to make a temp file
reliably/consistently |
| 16:42.39 |
clock_ |
look for
"ronja" keyword |
| 16:42.51 |
clock_ |
actually the
manpage of rsync suggests that rsync should be pretty
atomic. |
| 16:43.07 |
clock_ |
so don't
worry :) |
| 16:53.12 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: restructure file so that the
function declarations can go away. |
| 17:35.32 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: |
| 17:35.32 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
while convenient and would otherwise be usefule, you can't reliably
use '+=' |
| 17:35.32 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
operator on automake variables without requiring more current
versions of |
| 17:35.32 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
automake be installed (which we don't) so instead set a var and use
accordingly |
| 17:40.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add configure support for
enabling/disabling framebuffers, display managers, image
converters, and geometry converters |
| 18:11.27 |
``Erik |
"download
this cvs brlcad"? |
| 18:11.43 |
``Erik |
read the cvs
instructions at http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad |
| 18:12.02 |
``Erik |
namely,
http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=105292 |
| 18:13.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: |
| 18:13.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: also
do not need the openNURBS wrapper functions zcalloc() and zcfree()
since |
| 18:13.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
we're just letting zlib do it's own thing. compiling them in
results in |
| 18:13.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
multiple symbol definitions (and link errors) on os x at link time.
now links. |
| 18:27.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove more previous build
products, now including aclocal.m4 too |
| 18:59.23 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 19:40.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/common.h): only
include brlcad_config.h if actually building BRL-CAD. Prevents
preprocessor redefinition warnings for things like PACKAGE. (this
is the first step towards a cleaning activity). |
| 19:55.13 |
``Erik |
'thoom' |
| 19:56.22 |
clock_ |
We have a
wind here in Europe |
| 19:56.30 |
clock_ |
with an
online bodycount |
| 19:58.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/ (32 files in 32 dirs): define the
BRLCADBUILD preprocessor symbol |
| 20:27.37 |
Maloeran |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6270657.stm
Good news, but I especially like the picture :) |
| 20:36.39 |
``Erik |
hm, yeah,
gccisms |
| 20:36.44 |
``Erik |
__attribute__
is very gcc |
| 20:37.33 |
``Erik |
-std=c99,
too |
| 20:38.16 |
Maloeran |
If you
disable SSE support, I don't think there will be many __attribute__
left |
| 20:38.39 |
``Erik |
heh, the
notion is hardly gcc specific... gcc's implementation is just
radically unlike everyone elses... |
| 20:38.46 |
``Erik |
very...
linuxy, that way... kinda microsofty |
| 20:39.38 |
``Erik |
(though much
cleaner than the usual #pragma mechanism) |
| 20:41.59 |
Maloeran |
It's clean
enough, it could be abstracted through some #define ALIGNED
__attribute__((aligned(16))) if you want |
| 20:43.01 |
``Erik |
blows up good
on gcc2.95 heh |
| 20:43.20 |
Maloeran |
Really?
Surprising |
| 20:44.36 |
``Erik |
'const
restrict' seems to confuse it |
| 20:44.58 |
Maloeran |
Non-sense,
restrict is c99 and that's perfectly valid |
| 20:46.37 |
``Erik |
... gcc 4.2
probably doesn't implement c99 perfectly, and this irix box has gcc
2.95 on it... |
| 20:46.43 |
``Erik |
./RF/graph.h:47: parse error before
`elem' |
| 20:47.19 |
Maloeran |
Then it
doesn't understand "restrict", perhaps it just doesn't support
C99 |
| 20:47.49 |
``Erik |
oh, wait,
there it is, hah |
| 20:47.53 |
``Erik |
cc1: unknown
C standard `gnu99' |
| 20:48.22 |
Maloeran |
Woohoo. Okay,
gcc >=3.x is required |
| 21:04.59 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
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| 21:09.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: Added documentation for -t
option. |
| 21:10.19 |
``Erik |
it's just
gettin' to be that time of day |
| 21:12.38 |
iday |
finally got
the $%^& pro-e converter running under linux |
| 21:13.15 |
dtidrow_work |
hehy |
| 21:13.24 |
dtidrow_work |
heh,
rather... |
| 21:14.45 |
iday |
'course now I
need to remove the inappropriate debugging comments... |
| 21:16.34 |
brlcad |
sorted out
the makefile crap in src/external/ProEngineer/mk.in ? |
| 21:16.43 |
iday |
heh - not
exactly |
| 21:16.44 |
iday |
:-) |
| 21:16.58 |
iday |
but I should
- to make it easier to repeat ;-) |
| 21:17.49 |
brlcad |
really needs
a --with-proe flag so you can specify where ptc's junk is
installed |
| 21:18.46 |
iday |
yes - I'd
like to get it automake-ified - but that's more work than I'm gonna
do today... |
| 21:19.13 |
iday |
pro/e has
eaten up my supply of patience (around 0900 this
morning) |
| 21:19.38 |
brlcad |
woke up at
5am for some reason today |
| 21:19.42 |
brlcad |
i'm starting
to pay for it |
| 21:19.46 |
iday |
ewwww |
| 21:23.52 |
brlcad |
iday:
something weird about your sf account .. it doesn't send e-mails
for you when you commit |
| 21:23.59 |
brlcad |
does it dump
any errors? |
| 21:24.30 |
``Erik |
iday ==
jay-lo? |
| 21:36.03 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 22:18.28 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (24 files in 6 dirs):
uppercase all #define symbols |
| 22:50.00 |
*** join/#brlcad rusito
(n=c9e627f4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:51.55 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 23:33.47 |
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| 00:33.54 |
Maloeran |
Erik or
brlcad, I have a strange design question as this code will end up
in BRL-CAD and it should be consistent with the practices there.
For network distributed processing, is it be acceptable for slave
nodes to "blindly" trust all communication from their master
node? |
| 00:34.44 |
Maloeran |
Or should it
be robust, checking and validating all messages for coherency to
maintain an usable, normal state? |
| 00:35.39 |
Maloeran |
I don't
expect it would normally matter, unless you distribute processing
between trusted and non-trusted boxes, or non-trusted entities
forwarding packets |
| 00:36.35 |
``Erik |
off the cuff,
I would imagine that trusting netowrk traffic would be
sufficient... I can doublecheck on monday or tuesday... send me an
email <erikg@arl.army.mil> to remind me :) |
| 00:37.47 |
Maloeran |
Okay, some
stuff would just be a bit complex or costly to "validate" for
correctness... |
| 00:38.39 |
Maloeran |
I'm not
saying faulty input would cause buffer overruns allowing to run any
code on slave nodes, but at the moment, it could get them to
segfault or be stuck in infinite loops |
| 01:26.39 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: in
general, I believe there can be an assertion of trust for
network-distributed processing is fine (otherwise someone would
have already mentioned something) |
| 01:27.39 |
brlcad |
it should,
however, probably still be reliable and robust -- some reasonable
due-diligence to make sure things don't fall apart if someone just
wiggles a network cable, for example |
| 01:29.08 |
brlcad |
i.e. you
probably don't have to worry about *malicious* code and attacks,
but you should be robust under normal operation that things work
smoothly and fail in a non-catastrophic manner if they have to
fail |
| 01:41.23 |
Maloeran |
Right,
understandably so. As an example, if a master node supplies broken
graphs to slave nodes, it wouldn't be easy for them to detect that
their rays are going to get stuck in infinite loops |
| 01:43.59 |
Maloeran |
Thanks, it
should be stable under cable wiggling and so on |
| 01:45.10 |
brlcad |
although
getting stuck in an infinite loop would be a catastophic failure,
about as useful as crashing |
| 01:45.37 |
Maloeran |
That's
difficult to prevent if the slave nodes do receive faulty, tempered
data |
| 01:45.53 |
Maloeran |
( i.e. not in
any normal circumstances ) |
| 01:45.58 |
brlcad |
how would
they potentially receive faulty data? |
| 01:46.08 |
brlcad |
other than
abuse |
| 01:46.33 |
Maloeran |
It shouldn't
normally happen, hence why I was asking if I can trust the
network |
| 01:47.38 |
brlcad |
which depends
on several things.. I trust that when I send a tcp packet that it
will eventually arrive, I don't have even that same trust on udp of
course |
| 01:48.39 |
brlcad |
you can trust
that you don't have to worry about malicious abuse, packets getting
modified on the way, interceptions |
| 01:49.33 |
Maloeran |
All right,
thanks |
| 01:51.05 |
brlcad |
but not that
connectivity will be sustained, that you can loose a connection at
*any* point (and how reliably you deal with the fault is a
question, but generally some sort of handling even if to just
abort()) |
| 01:51.31 |
brlcad |
whether or
not you have to protect against yourself, i.e. bugs in your client
code, is a question for yourself :) |
| 01:52.02 |
Maloeran |
I know that
:). Clients can at any time connect and disconnect from their
master, smoothly or brutally |
| 01:52.20 |
Maloeran |
Clients can
join up while work is being done, have their state synchronized and
start shooting rays |
| 01:53.00 |
brlcad |
you rolled
your own networking? |
| 01:53.45 |
brlcad |
er, sry
jargon -- s/rolled/wrote/ |
| 01:54.08 |
Maloeran |
It's a
low-level interface made of in/out buffers supplied by the user, it
can be using tcp, mpi, infiniband, etc. |
| 01:55.04 |
brlcad |
i mean you
wrote your own listen(), select(), read(), etc code or is it all
over MPI or a mix or some other interface? |
| 01:55.07 |
Maloeran |
And the user
inserts its own messages within the stream for distribution of
raytracing work, so that high-level results can be transfered
between nodes instead of large low-level ray intersection
results |
| 01:55.44 |
brlcad |
you're
already higher level than I'm asking |
| 01:56.22 |
Maloeran |
It's meant to
work with any communication protocol really, it doesn't
fundamentally care about that. There's only an user-supplied
networking interface for tcp at the moment |
| 01:56.46 |
brlcad |
uhm
"user-supplied"? |
| 01:56.53 |
brlcad |
i have to
write socket code to use it? :) |
| 01:57.10 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I mean
it's not part of the raytracing library itself :) |
| 01:57.32 |
Maloeran |
I'll write
other interfaces later on |
| 01:57.38 |
brlcad |
that's
actually probably a good thing |
| 01:57.41 |
brlcad |
a very good
thing |
| 01:58.19 |
brlcad |
brl-cad
already has a sufficiently robust network library that is preferred
for most client/server applications |
| 01:58.27 |
brlcad |
(libpkg) |
| 01:58.57 |
Maloeran |
Great
then |
| 02:00.24 |
brlcad |
i was
wondering just because if you had only rolled your own.. i've *yet*
to see someone write their own socket code that was truely fault
tolerant even under "normal use" (without just aborting on every
little abnormality) |
| 02:00.34 |
brlcad |
at least with
respect to writing basic tcp/ip networking code |
| 02:01.05 |
Maloeran |
I think I
have done that long ago, I once wrote some client-based and
browser-based game that was in itself a http server written from
scrach |
| 02:01.44 |
Maloeran |
*Perhaps*
less portable than your libpkg though :) |
| 02:03.07 |
brlcad |
just about
everyone's written client server apps and most work reasonably well
all the time -- but not necessarily truely fault tolerant; i'd say
it's even harder than writing portable code that works with any
compiler |
| 02:03.24 |
brlcad |
libpkg is
pretty robust, but it's not even 100% |
| 02:04.11 |
Maloeran |
I don't
entirely see what you mean by "fault tolerant", but the code didn't
encounter any "fault" it wasn't handling running for two
years |
| 02:04.18 |
brlcad |
portability
is usually where things fall apart.. some assumption that worked on
linux, that doesn't do a darn thing when running under hpux or bsd
or solaris, etc |
| 02:04.44 |
brlcad |
the code in a
specific environment didn't have a fault -- put it in a different
environment.. let the fun begin :) |
| 02:04.44 |
Maloeran |
Networking
fault tolerance seems rather simple to me, though I may be
mistaken |
| 02:05.01 |
Maloeran |
Oh, well that
:). Okay, that code of mine is strictly Linux >= 2.4 |
| 02:05.11 |
brlcad |
if you assume
standards compliance and a standard networking api it is
easier |
| 02:05.36 |
brlcad |
rather
trivial actually |
| 02:06.01 |
Maloeran |
I'm guessing
libpkg supports mpi and infiniband? |
| 02:08.03 |
Maloeran |
It doesn't
appear to, actually |
| 02:08.07 |
brlcad |
it's focus is
very specific to client/server applications as a direct package
transport layer -- basically at the same level of mpi, not
higher |
| 02:08.46 |
Maloeran |
I see TCP
stuff, do you have support for infiniband? |
| 02:10.29 |
brlcad |
not
specifically, it's not been used over infiniband afaik -- though
i'm not sure there's anything that would preclude it from
working |
| 02:11.13 |
Maloeran |
There doesn't
seem to be support for fbsd's kqueue() or Linux's epoll()
either... |
| 02:11.47 |
Maloeran |
I guess it's
very robust at what it does, perhaps not geared towards peak
performance |
| 02:12.02 |
brlcad |
yep, and
nope |
| 02:12.23 |
brlcad |
predates most
of those anyways |
| 02:13.56 |
Maloeran |
Thanks for
the pointer, I'll look into it more in details once I'm ready to
move on from tcp |
| 02:14.57 |
brlcad |
np |
| 02:15.49 |
brlcad |
it's not
meant to be fancy or the fastest, but it is extensively portable
and the behavior is pretty robust for what it was designed to
do |
| 02:16.30 |
brlcad |
there's
src/libpkg/tpkg.c that basically implements ttcp client and server
all in one |
| 02:16.37 |
brlcad |
as an
example |
| 02:18.58 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I'll
have to dig a bit more to find non-blocking I/O |
| 02:28.35 |
Maloeran |
There sure is
much copying and internal dynamic allocation in there |
| 02:32.37 |
brlcad |
we did
already clarify that it's purpose is a robust simple api, not
performance already, didn't we? that said the performance is
almost always dwarfed by the network transport or application code
itself |
| 02:32.59 |
brlcad |
that is, i've
yet to see it actually be a bottleneck concern worth
optimizing |
| 02:37.24 |
brlcad |
buffer
allocation could certainly be improved, but it's still not
something I'd even consider thinking about until the bottleneck or
some profile showed it to be an issue |
| 02:42.12 |
``Erik |
hrmph |
| 02:42.21 |
``Erik |
it may be
starting the obvious.. |
| 02:43.05 |
``Erik |
but tcp
guarantees packets get to the target.. whole... |
| 02:43.13 |
``Erik |
udp makes no
such assumptions |
| 02:43.35 |
``Erik |
so if you
want udp transmitted data to be verifiable, you must do it
yourself... |
| 02:45.50 |
``Erik |
mal: I've
started wiring up a program to do brlcad vs adrt vs rayforce
cmparisons... correctness and performance... I'm hoping that
sometime next week, I'll have softare working with adrt and
librt... and hopefull very soon after, permission to give you a
copy |
| 02:46.10 |
``Erik |
excuse my kbd
mistakes... whiskey has been involved. O.o |
| 02:46.44 |
``Erik |
(well more
than that night in salt lake city. *cough*) |
| 03:06.53 |
brlcad |
``Erik: that
was part of the point (regarding assumptions) |
| 03:07.25 |
brlcad |
and yeah, was
quite stating the obvious :) |
| 03:49.50 |
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| 05:09.00 |
Twingy |
brlcad,
yes |
| 05:20.33 |
Maloeran |
Great Erik,
let me know how it goes, if you need some specific demo coded for
benchmarking |
| 05:22.51 |
Maloeran |
brlcad,
that's surely right. I'm well aware that I over-optimize and see
inefficiencies everywhere |
| 05:46.41 |
Maloeran |
Erik, if
correctness is "low", we can turn off automatic vector generation
and a couple other things to improve that point ; just tell me so
if it appears to be an issue |
| 06:56.53 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 13:36.12 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): clean up after
py-compile |
| 13:36.26 |
*** join/#brlcad KeenEars
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| 13:40.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: trailing
newline |
| 13:41.16 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/main.sh: trailing newline |
| 13:42.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: trailing newline |
| 13:43.56 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: trailing newline |
| 13:44.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/.cvsignore: trailing
newline |
| 13:48.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/ (6 files in 6
dirs): trailing newline cleanup |
| 13:51.53 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/rtwizard: standard header and
footer |
| 13:53.32 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/vas4/.cvsignore src/vdeck/.cvsignore
TODO): trailing newline |
| 13:57.57 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (26 files): update copyright to
2007 |
| 14:07.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: |
| 14:07.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
Remove the carte blanche statement that allowed selection of the
license at |
| 14:07.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
user's discretion and GNU's provision. If there's motivation to
change the |
| 14:07.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
license, even to a new version, it will need to be a conscious
effort and |
| 14:07.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
decision. |
| 14:08.07 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-93-149.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:11.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am COPYING autogen.sh configure.ac):
update copyright to 2007 |
| 14:11.59 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 14:12.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: copyright statement only relevant to
current year in the example |
| 14:13.13 |
brlcad |
no, i'm not
doing them one at a time |
| 14:13.23 |
``Erik |
find . -type
f | xargs sed -E -i.bak 's/[ \t]+$//' |
| 14:13.26 |
``Erik |
o.O |
| 14:13.39 |
``Erik |
(if you're on
a decent os... I don't think linux can do that) |
| 14:14.16 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
was a script that did that sort of cleanup too |
| 14:14.29 |
brlcad |
a whole
category of things like that |
| 14:14.47 |
``Erik |
<--
would've expected to see something like "brlcad/ (897 files in 47
dirs): trailing newline" out of cia |
| 14:15.00 |
brlcad |
nah, there
was only the handful |
| 14:15.11 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 14:15.23 |
brlcad |
the copyright
script reports them, so I was cleaning up while it
churned |
| 14:15.30 |
``Erik |
it made a LOT
of cvs report noise when I did that to openal a few years
back |
| 14:15.43 |
``Erik |
too many vc++
coders touching the repo, I guess |
| 14:16.05 |
brlcad |
did most of
that cleanup before we went open source |
| 14:16.08 |
``Erik |
or, 'ide'
coders, rather... the disease has spread |
| 14:16.17 |
brlcad |
(since that's
when the copyright script was written) |
| 14:16.44 |
brlcad |
those are
basically the ones that were crept in since last year |
| 14:16.59 |
brlcad |
lee and bob
mostly |
| 14:17.09 |
``Erik |
bobs in
windows land |
| 14:17.18 |
brlcad |
yeah, I don't
know what lee's excuse is :) |
| 14:17.19 |
``Erik |
want I should
break lees pinky next I see him? ;) |
| 14:21.11 |
``Erik |
and you'd be
surprised how many "software developers" don't grok the
assertations made by tcp and udp and the fundamental differences
o.O it's sad... (but they're the same coders who don't even put
udp, much less rdp on the table when making design
decisions) |
| 14:22.43 |
``Erik |
Maloeran: I'm
going to get librt and adrt/libtie working in this framework, and
it has stubs for rayforce... once it works and goes through the
formal release process, you'll have 4 or 5 functions to fill out to
get rayforce linked and operating. I'm doing the heavy lifting, you
just have to wire your engine into it :D |
| 14:24.31 |
brlcad |
yeah, I
usually have to explain to some dev on bz a couple times a year
about how there assumption that packet X arriving before Y (or at
all) is a bad assertion to make |
| 14:24.58 |
brlcad |
surprisingly
even happens with some of the more experienced coders, and they'll
make the assumption repeatedly |
| 14:27.46 |
brlcad |
problem more
stems from the fact that they do happen to see the behavior of
ordering and delivery 99% of the time, if not better, so they often
try to blame routers and other crap when it doesn't get there in
some order or at all -- and the problems usually only rear their
head when it's pushed out to users (where that 1% or 0.1% ends up
being dozens/hundreds of bug reports) |
| 14:28.03 |
``Erik |
bz is a udp
protocol? |
| 14:28.09 |
``Erik |
(I doubt
rdp) |
| 14:28.41 |
``Erik |
in a perfect
world, udp is reliable and delivers packets in order... the real
world isn't perfect *shrug* |
| 14:28.50 |
brlcad |
it uses a mix
of udp and tcp, depending on whather the packet requires a delivery
guarantee |
| 14:29.07 |
``Erik |
reponsiveness
is probably also a major que |
| 14:29.33 |
``Erik |
if you lose a
tcp packet, it has to stop the stream and re-request the lost
packet... then rebuild it in stream order before you can read()
it |
| 14:29.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, tcp is
a pig, rather unplayable if that's all you used |
| 14:30.14 |
brlcad |
there's an
option to make all packets tcp only, and you basically have to be
on the local net |
| 14:30.25 |
brlcad |
otherwise lag
is too unbearable with just a couple players |
| 14:30.31 |
``Erik |
which results
in hitching... sorta similar to shoddy gc (naive stop©,
mark&sweep)... infrequent halts |
| 14:31.36 |
brlcad |
so it's a
mix, things like posiition updates (which can be a couple dozen per
second per player) are sent udp while things like player spawns and
shot starts are tcp |
| 14:32.15 |
brlcad |
doesn't
really matter if you miss an update to some tanks' position, there
are going to be many more following -- but i fyou missed
notification that they fired a shot.. that could be bad |
| 14:32.47 |
``Erik |
oh, btw...
the python crap I did yesterday... works dandy on linux and fbsd...
not so much using the preinstalled python on a mac (they dont' have
the .a file, rhel ONLY has the .a, ...) I think I'm at the point of
not caring... I'm only doing it to support this rayforce vs adrt
(in an s2 like environment) app, and osX isn't high on the list of
concerns :/ |
| 14:33.24 |
``Erik |
so if you get
really bored and want python linked in on osX, ... I'll let ya take
care of that... otherwise, adrt is still "not officially supported"
I guess |
| 14:33.49 |
``Erik |
does bz do
the quack style "delta delta delta key" type thing? |
| 14:33.51 |
brlcad |
hey, the
checks are in there.. if it can autodetect, so be it .. if it still
can't so be it :) |
| 14:34.08 |
``Erik |
it had
detects for the python interpreter executable |
| 14:34.19 |
brlcad |
right, still
does |
| 14:34.25 |
brlcad |
they're just
inside the macro |
| 14:34.55 |
``Erik |
finding the
libraries and headers was not searched, justin hardwired it for
python 2.4 installed normally to /usr/local (fbsd style), so that's
what I was working around yesterday... it can now cope with python
2.5, python 2.2 on linux (/usr), ... |
| 14:35.10 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 14:35.19 |
brlcad |
i've had that
mess he left in the back of my mind all year |
| 14:35.37 |
``Erik |
wow, my
english is worse than a java devers code |
| 14:36.09 |
``Erik |
aaanyhow, I
have a mission to complete, I'm just fixing enough to complete
it. |
| 14:36.22 |
brlcad |
shame really,
most folks would really really like to use isst if it just worked
out of the box and you could, oh say, pass it a.g file and have it
display |
| 14:36.43 |
``Erik |
heh,
yeah |
| 14:37.23 |
brlcad |
as it is, you
have to fuss with the compile, fuss with a conversion, fuss with a
config, fuss with running it (probably the easiest
aspect) |
| 14:37.26 |
``Erik |
if we had
reliable tesselation, burning some space to have .g files with both
csg and triangles would be awful attractive |
| 14:38.00 |
``Erik |
or fast
tesselation *shrug* |
| 14:38.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1675 files in 81 dirs): update copyright to
2007 |
| 14:38.20 |
brlcad |
openNURBS
might actually help there |
| 14:38.44 |
brlcad |
it seems to
include most of the functionality to handle NMG
processing |
| 14:38.47 |
``Erik |
hrmmmm, |
| 14:39.06 |
brlcad |
whether it
works or not, or how well or how fast is another question
altogether of course |
| 14:39.17 |
``Erik |
so having
primitive/csg geometry and tnurbs in the file? then tesselate the
tnurbs? |
| 14:39.18 |
brlcad |
because on
paper, librt's nmg stuff does everything too |
| 14:39.34 |
brlcad |
just not
robust |
| 14:39.42 |
brlcad |
yeah,
something like that |
| 14:39.48 |
``Erik |
hehehe, yeah,
curley brackets and dropped regions out the wazoo, yes |
| 14:39.58 |
brlcad |
more of a
dual representation where the primitives/csg would be stored on
disk |
| 14:40.23 |
brlcad |
trimmed nurbs
or some more generic brep form would just be another primitive as
usual |
| 14:40.26 |
``Erik |
my uneducated
gut feeling is that csg->tnurb might be necessarily
expensive |
| 14:40.46 |
brlcad |
but each
primitive would have the (dual-rep) capability of describing itself
as a brep spline surface |
| 14:41.08 |
brlcad |
then we just
need a means to evaluate arbitrary csg on brep spline to spline
surfaces |
| 14:41.10 |
``Erik |
and when ya
measure time vs space, disk space is pretty damn cheap |
| 14:42.10 |
brlcad |
csg->csg
tnurb would be practically immediate, eval'd tnurb->facets is
also nearly immediate |
| 14:42.19 |
brlcad |
evaluating
the csg is what takes time |
| 14:42.51 |
``Erik |
ok, I'm
assuming that the represented tnurb geometry is post csg... no
overlaps |
| 14:42.53 |
brlcad |
i.e. going
from csg tnurb->eval'd tnurb (or what we presently do with
csg->facets) |
| 14:43.09 |
brlcad |
you can have
before or after, without overlaps |
| 14:43.41 |
brlcad |
just a matter
of how do you carve up those spline surfaces, make new surfaces, so
you can get rid of the booleans |
| 14:44.11 |
``Erik |
yeah, my mind
was already on the assumption that if you want to deal with tnurbs,
you want to deal with the post-csg tnurbs, so you'd want to cache
those to disk |
| 14:44.12 |
brlcad |
that'll be
the hardest part, but it's not intractable .. you're only dealing
with one surface/object type |
| 14:44.39 |
brlcad |
if they can't
be evaluated on the fly, you would want to cache them to disk
regardless |
| 14:44.52 |
brlcad |
along with
the facets even potentially |
| 14:45.12 |
brlcad |
depends just
how fast those two steps take |
| 14:45.43 |
brlcad |
other cad
systems seem to be able to do both on the fly |
| 14:45.57 |
brlcad |
i.e. within a
second or two with moderately complex parts |
| 14:46.14 |
brlcad |
that's more
than reasonable if we can get that far |
| 14:48.57 |
``Erik |
I'm under the
impression that we like to load entire complex systems up when
other cad systems are severely limited in how much they can have in
memory at any given time |
| 14:50.43 |
``Erik |
are files
being explicitely skipped in your copyright update
script? |
| 14:51.21 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 14:53.42 |
brlcad |
there are a
lot of files we don't have the copyright on to be
changing |
| 14:54.11 |
brlcad |
you have an
example of something not updated that should have? |
| 14:54.13 |
``Erik |
ah, I found
several that have "United States Government" as the copyright
holder |
| 14:55.20 |
``Erik |
lemme clean
things up a little and commit these... |
| 14:55.27 |
``Erik |
then you'll
see which ones in the email or whatever |
| 14:56.09 |
brlcad |
yeah, on a
quick glance, I see it missed at least 90 for some
reason |
| 14:57.11 |
brlcad |
and the list
i'm looking at, there's a reason on most of them .. like missing
headers |
| 14:57.43 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: use dates formatting to
extract the year instead of awk... |
| 14:58.40 |
brlcad |
sh/copyright.sh is what
updates |
| 14:59.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 5 dirs): update copyright
to 2007 |
| 14:59.50 |
``Erik |
misc/macosx/Resources/License.rtf
misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c
misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc src/gtools/g_qa.1 |
| 15:00.35 |
brlcad |
ahh yeah, it
specifically ignores misc |
| 15:00.59 |
*** part/#brlcad KeenEars
(n=opera@eat.ssau.ru) |
| 15:01.43 |
brlcad |
should
probably add misc though and just exclude the known 3rd
party |
| 15:06.14 |
``Erik |
interesting
that it missed g_qa.1 |
| 15:06.26 |
brlcad |
yeah, implies
something is wrong in the file |
| 15:09.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: copyright on the
whole starts back in 1984 |
| 15:11.03 |
brlcad |
vers.vbs is
that vb script I was talking about |
| 15:11.25 |
brlcad |
just need
similar ones for the other scripting activities the build process
assumes |
| 15:16.37 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 15:23.25 |
``Erik |
should do
just fine, provided the semantics of the file aren't
corrupted... |
| 15:24.09 |
``Erik |
file that
says "this data is at offset X" and change the character
count.. |
| 15:24.36 |
brlcad |
hmm, extended
regex foo too, something like \(([cC])|?\) |
| 15:25.45 |
``Erik |
that depends
on the breed of sed |
| 15:25.50 |
``Erik |
the sed in
fbsd supports it |
| 15:26.03 |
``Erik |
I'd be
surprised if the one in irix does... not sure on
leenewx |
| 15:26.08 |
``Erik |
sed
-E |
| 15:26.39 |
brlcad |
don't really
care about portability, this is once a year :) |
| 15:26.52 |
brlcad |
i think i can
find a bsd or linux box at least once a year |
| 15:27.01 |
``Erik |
aight
*shrug* |
| 15:27.13 |
``Erik |
gnu sed does
NOT do extended (or 'modern' regex) |
| 15:27.55 |
``Erik |
might do a
test to verify that sed -E behaves like you expect it to behave and
exit with an error if it doesn't, just in case someone else tries
it or ya forget :D |
| 15:29.28 |
brlcad |
trying to see
if the match works at all for starters |
| 15:29.40 |
brlcad |
or I can just
fix the one use of that blasted character |
| 15:32.39 |
``Erik |
option+g,
amusing |
| 15:37.19 |
brlcad |
ah, even
better, just allow for an optional character |
| 15:43.55 |
brlcad |
woot, that'll
do |
| 15:48.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: |
| 15:48.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: add
support to detect/convert \a9 copyright symbols, convert them to
(c) for |
| 15:48.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
consistency just like everything else. also, more importantly, add
the ability |
| 15:48.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: to
use this script to process individual files (e.g. in conjunction
with find). |
| 15:48.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: if
there's an argument list, that is what will be processed.
otherwise, it will |
| 15:48.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: do
the usual task of processing everything under the src root that it
recognizes |
| 15:48.13 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: (and
that isn't exempted). |
| 16:01.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (cup.sh Makefile.am
mged.html mged1.html cup): it's a shell script, so call it cup.sh
instead for consistency |
| 16:02.27 |
``Erik |
what about
the generated scripts? like, uhhh, brlman/awf |
| 16:03.24 |
brlcad |
those are
installed commands where the fact that they're shell scripts is
just an implementation detail |
| 16:03.43 |
brlcad |
plus that was
just a doc script |
| 16:04.58 |
brlcad |
most of the
installed user-scripts are unsuffixed,
brlman/awf/benchmark/archer/rtwizard |
| 16:09.32 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: oop, the dotfiles thing caused
automatic to go all empty list crazy. remove that contraint, but
add a slew of other exemptions of stuff it should be able to safely
ignore |
| 17:51.55 |
Maloeran |
``Erik, about
these 4-5 functions to fill up for a rayforce interface, I hope I
can expect these to be friendly with processing of rays in batches
and the concept of ray sources? |
| 17:57.17 |
``Erik |
um |
| 17:57.21 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, not very |
| 17:58.19 |
Maloeran |
Look, the
rayforce interface is somewhat peculiar and it has to be used
intelligently to provide good performance |
| 17:58.31 |
``Erik |
extern
RtTrace* rt_shoot (RtGeometry *geom, RtHandle
hp); |
| 17:58.31 |
``Erik |
extern double
rt_getsize (RtGeometry *g); |
| 17:58.31 |
``Erik |
extern bool
rt_getbox (RtGeometry *g, VmVect *min, VmVect
*max); |
| 17:58.31 |
``Erik |
extern
RtGeometry* rt_constructor (RtGeomInfo *info, int info_needed,
NmPool *comp_names); |
| 17:58.38 |
Maloeran |
It's quite
flexible, but one has to understand and consider how it
works |
| 17:59.12 |
``Erik |
RtHandle
holds exactly 1 ray |
| 17:59.23 |
Maloeran |
That is very,
very bad. |
| 17:59.28 |
``Erik |
obviously |
| 17:59.39 |
``Erik |
I'll talk to
lee about adjusting the interface |
| 18:00.06 |
``Erik |
this is the
interface ripped almost directly from the "target app" |
| 18:00.19 |
Maloeran |
Please
consider the concept of shooting many rays from a single point.
Failing that, consider "displacements" from a fixed origin for the
bundle of rays |
| 18:00.23 |
``Erik |
if we can
unstupid THEIR code, life is grand... but it's not mine to
fix... |
| 18:00.26 |
Maloeran |
The smallest
the displacements, the better |
| 18:00.37 |
``Erik |
the normal
vehicle of behavior is orthographic |
| 18:00.53 |
``Erik |
with randomly
scattered secondaries |
| 18:01.45 |
Maloeran |
All right,
are the secondary rays traced from the intersection points of
previous rays? |
| 18:02.07 |
``Erik |
but it's all
good, adrt assumes perspective projection and bundles for
performance, and you are competing on level ground |
| 18:02.25 |
``Erik |
ummmm |
| 18:02.28 |
``Erik |
I'm not
sure |
| 18:02.45 |
``Erik |
I *THINK*
they assume either the 'entry' or 'exit' point of a "solid"
part |
| 18:03.05 |
Maloeran |
Typical
example : ray sources, from which to shoot secondary rays, can be
updated to match the intersection points of primary
rays |
| 18:03.07 |
``Erik |
and in
behavior, it's very similar to shooting, y'know, a few hundred
scattered refraction rays |
| 18:03.38 |
``Erik |
the
secondaries are emitted from an origin on the primary ray. the
direction is generally in a similar direction. |
| 18:03.40 |
Maloeran |
Updating ray
sources at intersection points would be a lot faster than resolving
origins for secondary rays constantly |
| 18:03.46 |
``Erik |
I d'no if
it's safe to say any more |
| 18:04.44 |
``Erik |
but it's ok,
this program I'm writing will be the thing used to prove the letter
of the contract |
| 18:05.03 |
``Erik |
if THEY
choose to use your software stupidly |
| 18:05.05 |
``Erik |
that's all
ok |
| 18:05.25 |
``Erik |
allz ya gotta
do is the 5x adrt bit, and we have a little wiggle room to prove or
disprove that |
| 18:05.26 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 18:05.29 |
Maloeran |
I don't know
if it's going to be 5 times faster if it's constrained within such
a poor interface |
| 18:05.58 |
``Erik |
if we can
make the argument that the interface makes it impossible, but an
alternate interface fixes it, we can go that route, I guess *shrug*
I d'no |
| 18:08.20 |
Maloeran |
No ray
bundling, no intelligent management of ray sources and
displacements, no SSE ; it's going to crawl :) |
| 18:08.45 |
Maloeran |
Anyhow, we
can try. |
| 18:11.29 |
Maloeran |
If you are
going to shoot one ray at a time, at least make it rely on a
callback so I can buffer up and process in batches |
| 18:11.57 |
Maloeran |
And the
library manages threading internally, all calls should come from
the same thread |
| 18:12.43 |
Maloeran |
( Unless we
quickly make a fix for a public blocking non-threading
one-ray-at-a-time function, most inefficient ) |
| 18:14.21 |
``Erik |
hopefully
I'll have it functioning in a form next week |
| 18:14.39 |
``Erik |
which will
take maybe another week to push through the dreaded "form 1"
process |
| 18:14.41 |
``Erik |
to get you
the code |
| 18:14.50 |
``Erik |
just givin'
ya a heads up :) |
| 18:15.36 |
Maloeran |
Or I could
still write the interface without access to your code |
| 18:16.07 |
``Erik |
you need teh
structs |
| 18:16.19 |
``Erik |
and those
have to be cleared, since they're from a non-distributable
source |
| 18:16.53 |
Maloeran |
Highly
sensitive structs, eh? :) All right |
| 18:17.51 |
``Erik |
I think I've
appropriately cleaned them up |
| 18:18.07 |
``Erik |
and it's not
so much the structs as it is the comments |
| 18:18.12 |
``Erik |
and variable
names |
| 18:21.13 |
Maloeran |
Am I allowed
to ask what the the getsize() and getbox() functions are
for? |
| 18:21.41 |
``Erik |
getsize() is
the diameter (I think, maybe radius) of the bounding
sphere |
| 18:21.50 |
``Erik |
getbox is the
bounding axis aligned cube, I think |
| 18:22.14 |
``Erik |
when you get
the code, it'll have the appriopriate shtuff filled in for adrt and
BRL-CAD librt |
| 18:22.14 |
Maloeran |
I'm not quite
following, what sphere and cube, what's the purpose? |
| 18:22.28 |
``Erik |
not entirely
sure why both are needed, actually... *shrug* |
| 18:22.35 |
``Erik |
but if you
have one, an estimate of the other is trivial |
| 18:23.02 |
Maloeran |
Fine, though
I don't see the function of either at the moment :) |
| 18:23.04 |
``Erik |
I know my
metaball thingy primarily uses the sphere for computation, but the
box for the kd-tree |
| 18:23.11 |
``Erik |
well |
| 18:23.16 |
``Erik |
suppose I
have geometry of an unknown size |
| 18:23.21 |
``Erik |
and I want to
make a picture |
| 18:23.28 |
``Erik |
automatically
placing the camera |
| 18:23.32 |
Maloeran |
Oh, bounding
box and sphere for the whole scene? |
| 18:23.39 |
``Erik |
I have to
know how big it is so I know how far away |
| 18:23.40 |
Maloeran |
Okay, very
simple stuff |
| 18:23.46 |
``Erik |
bounding for
the specified geometry... |
| 18:23.55 |
``Erik |
might be the
whole 'scene', might be a subset... |
| 18:24.28 |
``Erik |
I think the
killer part you'll have to deal with, the real rough bit, is when
you shoot a ray, you have to return the list of brlcad
regions/components in order with in/out points |
| 18:24.59 |
``Erik |
(and things
like in and out normals, thickness, curvature, possibly GIFT
material... ) |
| 18:25.48 |
Maloeran |
Rayforce will
return the ordered hits, it shouldn't be too much trouble from
there |
| 18:26.35 |
``Erik |
getting you
this code is my #1 priority at work... once you have it, you'll
know how to craft rayforce to satisfy this benchmark... |
| 18:27.23 |
Maloeran |
I can already
say that this interface will cut performance by a factor of
3-6 |
| 18:27.28 |
``Erik |
heh, when
trying to figure out who's gonna do some drudgework, I escaped it
cuz of this... so jlo is doing the drudge instead of the tnurbs
(which are considered "highly important" by money throwing
fucktards) |
| 18:27.33 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 18:27.34 |
``Erik |
I
know |
| 18:27.37 |
``Erik |
and it's
horrible |
| 18:28.10 |
``Erik |
but adrt is
under the same artificial stupid |
| 18:28.11 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, I'm
glad to hear that :) |
| 18:28.17 |
Maloeran |
Right. |
| 18:28.22 |
``Erik |
and if we
rework the comparison, to be fair, we have to rework it for adrt,
too |
| 18:28.33 |
``Erik |
so, y'know, I
wouldn't sweat it at this time |
| 18:28.57 |
``Erik |
5x is an
arbitrary number, and we can be reasonably arbitrary in
comparison |
| 18:28.58 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 18:29.45 |
Maloeran |
It's not like
adding coherency management, SSE processing and ray bundling to
adrt would be that simple |
| 18:30.14 |
``Erik |
<- anal
and pedantic, would have specified an interface and platform and
set of specific cases and said 'total compute time' |
| 18:30.17 |
Maloeran |
Anyhow, I get
the picture. Let's just hope it's naturally 15-30 times faster to
reach that 5x thing :) |
| 18:30.22 |
``Erik |
adrt has ray
coherency and bundling |
| 18:30.31 |
``Erik |
it's being
skipped in s2 |
| 18:30.52 |
``Erik |
it's stupid
and wrong, ti's the equivelant of using read() and write() sending
one byte at a time |
| 18:31.09 |
Maloeran |
Specific
cases that can be solved in the native way for all raytracers would
have been far preferable |
| 18:31.14 |
``Erik |
any nonretard
would use sendfile(), but *shrug* |
| 18:31.14 |
Maloeran |
Exactly! |
| 18:32.01 |
``Erik |
s2 is a
project I have no control over, but we go thte funding saying
rayforce would make it faster |
| 18:32.39 |
``Erik |
trust me, if
I had permission to unfuck s2, it'd be several orders of magnitude
faster and smaller right now. |
| 18:32.39 |
Maloeran |
So it must be
faster using their akward interface we can not change, I got
it |
| 18:32.44 |
``Erik |
well,
technically, we didn't say anything about their
interface |
| 18:32.56 |
``Erik |
but given the
purpose, it seems like a rational starting point for
comparing |
| 18:33.13 |
Maloeran |
Right, we can
compare accuracy at least |
| 18:33.24 |
``Erik |
the big
reason I chose it was because libtie itself does no segment list
building. you are required to build segment lists. the only adrt
code that does that is in s2 |
| 18:33.31 |
``Erik |
I'm lazy
*shrug* |
| 18:33.42 |
``Erik |
accuracy is
why I'm also wiring librt into it |
| 18:34.35 |
``Erik |
also; my api
expects the geometry conversion to be handled by the specific rt
engine... in librt, it's trivial, it's the native format. in adrt,
there's an explicit tesselation pass to get triangle
soup |
| 18:34.37 |
Maloeran |
I'm still a
bit concerned about the numerical precision of my weird
ray-triangle intersection tests, I look forward to having this
point clarified |
| 18:34.54 |
Maloeran |
I'll use that
same triangle soup |
| 18:34.57 |
``Erik |
you might
need to crib some crap from the adrt/adrt.c file |
| 18:35.44 |
``Erik |
hmmm, I'm
under the impression that if you're accurate within 5 digits, we're
all good... but they also try to argue 64 bit ieee754/854 data
being absolutely identical... |
| 18:35.56 |
Maloeran |
That's
absurd! |
| 18:36.08 |
``Erik |
so, y'know,
don't sweat it, it's a political battle, and it'll be handled by
lee and poor old bman |
| 18:36.21 |
Maloeran |
Identical
results on 64 bits will never occur from different
techniques |
| 18:36.38 |
*** join/#brlcad cad07
(n=c90e90b1@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:36.45 |
``Erik |
nope |
| 18:37.13 |
``Erik |
I'm under the
impression that they're trying to cover their incompetence by
clinging to shit like that, but quoting 5 digits for their own
folley |
| 18:37.25 |
cad07 |
hi |
| 18:37.28 |
Maloeran |
5 digits
accuracy with float is reasonable |
| 18:37.31 |
``Erik |
but that's a
political battle. we'll take care of it. go do good things
instead |
| 18:37.35 |
Maloeran |
Good
afternoon Lee |
| 18:38.18 |
lalola |
Good
morning |
| 18:38.25 |
Maloeran |
Oh, so that's
where the bzflag.bz come from |
| 18:38.40 |
``Erik |
bzflag.bz is
the same machine as brlcad.org |
| 18:39.24 |
``Erik |
http://irc.brlcad.org/ <-- will
have people joining as cad[0-9]*@bz.bzflag.bz |
| 18:40.19 |
Maloeran |
*nods* By the
way, if the segment list building code is the algorithm I have seen
on a piece of paper at SURVICE, there's room for
improvement |
| 18:40.58 |
``Erik |
it might
be |
| 18:41.05 |
``Erik |
I think
twingy wrote a whitepaper on it |
| 18:41.22 |
lalola |
why I cant
join in other channel? |
| 18:41.29 |
lalola |
with this cgi
script |
| 18:41.43 |
``Erik |
you're using
the incredibly simplified java program, if you want real irc
ability, use a real irc program |
| 18:42.06 |
lalola |
Im in a
closed network |
| 18:42.07 |
``Erik |
which,
naturally, will depend on what OS you're using... |
| 18:42.13 |
``Erik |
hrm, sucks to
be you? :D |
| 18:42.17 |
lalola |
I already Am
using proxy to access http |
| 18:42.53 |
lalola |
I dont work
with iptables now :/ |
| 18:44.01 |
``Erik |
ew,
linux |
| 18:44.37 |
lalola |
GNU/Linux |
| 18:44.56 |
lalola |
I was wanting
join in #debian-br ... |
| 18:46.13 |
``Erik |
most java
applets that emulate protocol programs (irc, ssh, etc) restrict
where you can go |
| 18:46.38 |
lalola |
well |
| 18:49.23 |
lalola |
but thanks
bye |
| 19:08.24 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 19:48.57 |
brlcad |
bzflag.bz
isn't the same as "brlcad.org" -- that's an sf.net server, but
irc.brlcad.org and ftp.brlcad.org are both bzflag.bz |
| 19:55.20 |
brlcad |
heh,
complaining that our cgi:irc isn't open to any channel on the
network, sounds like an asshat plea to abuse |
| 19:57.52 |
brlcad |
there are
bounding boxes/spheres around portions of a given model -- in a
given solid model, it's comprised of various distinct parts aka
regions |
| 19:58.18 |
brlcad |
segments
returned on a shotline aren't just in/out points, but id'd to
identifiers for each region |
| 19:59.16 |
brlcad |
for each
given region, the user code can put either the bounding sphere or
bounding box to use for some purpose (that you generally don't care
about, but have to provide those bounds regardless as part of the
interface) |
| 20:01.01 |
brlcad |
just as an
example, they might want use the bounding spheres on a set of
regions to get a real fast rough volume estimate, or determine if
two regions/parts even have the capacity to potentially overlap
each other |
| 20:27.20 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 20:27.35 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 20:43.02 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 21:05.30 |
``Erik |
Kelsey
Grammer and Cary Elwes, it's gotta be god |
| 21:05.45 |
``Erik |
and I'm told
it's more or less right, just not as horrible as the truth
o.O |
| 21:06.57 |
``Erik |
holy
mcfuckingshit, john mcginley, too (dr cox from scrubs) |
| 21:26.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: clean up the progress printing
a little bit, remove the sed duplication and false modification
report on current-year copyrighted files. ws too. |
| 21:27.04 |
brlcad |
``Erik: it's
pretty good, I imagine it was only worse but a good story
regardless |
| 21:29.53 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/viewdiff.sh: header should say
viewdiff.sh since it was renamed, not recheck.sh |
| 21:35.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: header
cleanup |
| 21:44.39 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/cakeinclude.sh: obsolete script from prior
build system |
| 21:45.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: obsolete script from prior
build system |
| 21:47.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (3 files in 3 dirs): consistency on the
(c), keep it simple |
| 21:51.03 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: header and footer |
| 21:52.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: header and footer |
| 21:55.31 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am ldAix.sh): remove obsolete
ldAix.sh build helper script. it's libtool's job now. |
| 22:08.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: init var safety |
| 22:27.23 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753792.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:38.41 |
Maloeran |
Grah... It is
amazingly hard to debate reality and cognitive perceptions with an
islamist fundamentalist, it's terrible |
| 22:39.23 |
Maloeran |
I got to stop
jumping in these debates whenever a believer joins programming
channels, which strangely happens very often |
| 22:40.23 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 22:40.48 |
dtidrow |
how do you
feel about vi vs. emacs? ;-) |
| 22:41.18 |
louipc |
emacs makes
more sense kind of |
| 22:42.09 |
louipc |
well, I guess
I haven't gotten the feel of vi yet. emacs is more
natural |
| 22:42.37 |
dtidrow |
I was being
rhetorical |
| 22:42.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: rm -f |
| 22:43.14 |
louipc |
uh
oh! |
| 22:44.18 |
Maloeran |
vim!... and
nedit :) |
| 22:45.11 |
Maloeran |
I'm just
astonished at how religious brainwashing can completely cripple
reasonning capabilities, the rational mind is... completely
broken |
| 22:50.58 |
``Erik |
emacs is only
more natural if you have cognative ability and attention spen of a
mildly retarded squirrel. |
| 22:51.23 |
``Erik |
pentagon wars
was a decent 'nuff movie, I may send a bulk email on monday... I'm
glad leebert loaned it to me |
| 22:53.28 |
``Erik |
on religious
brainwashing in regards to emacs vs vim... both editors are
phenomenal in capability, but it's our duty to pursue extending our
ability as much as we can. Yes, there is a learning curve, but the
increased productivity is not dismissable. Anyone who does NOT try
to learn at least one of the two seriously has the kind of
shortsightedness that leads to stagnation of real
ability. |
| 22:53.31 |
``Erik |
IMHO. |
| 23:04.44 |
*** join/#brlcad cad55
(n=4316dc41@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:05.15 |
cad55 |
hi |
| 23:05.30 |
Maloeran |
Greetings |
| 23:05.56 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: add support similar to that added
to copyright.sh that allows the script to also work on individual
files or with find. the script now also processes a backup just in
case there are no changes made. |
| 23:07.15 |
cad55 |
I was
wondering on google and saw that brlcad might feed my curiosity
into the cad stuff on linux |
| 23:07.33 |
cad55 |
I am using a
gentoo derivative, sabayonlinux, and was wondering what should i do
to compile brl-cad |
| 23:08.01 |
dtidrow |
what exactly
do you want to do with a CAD package? |
| 23:08.05 |
Maloeran |
If it's
similar enough to Gentoo, downloading the source and compiling
would do |
| 23:08.42 |
Maloeran |
( You
probably already have the other packages required ) |
| 23:09.16 |
cad55 |
ok,,I want
just want to play with it and see what stuff it can do...I am fed
up with windowze and tired of downloading pirated
software |
| 23:09.46 |
cad55 |
I heard a lot
about blender but it seems that it does not have cad
features |
| 23:10.05 |
cad55 |
for example,
I would like to try to model my house here in the us :) |
| 23:11.08 |
cad55 |
brl-cad
architecture supports plugins or modules? |
| 23:11.25 |
Maloeran |
The user
interface might be a bit lighter than what you are used to, it
should be fine if you like command lines |
| 23:11.39 |
Maloeran |
Yet,
depending on the purpose of the houes model, Blender might be more
appropriate |
| 23:12.07 |
Maloeran |
house* model,
even |
| 23:13.38 |
cad55 |
I see..well I
kind of start to like the command line and like I said I am bored
with windowze so after feedling with linux for about three years
it's time for a change |
| 23:13.56 |
cad55 |
what would
you say about q-cad and the features in brl-cad (never mind the
UI) |
| 23:14.28 |
louipc |
cad55: I
think the commands are little programs in themselves, so are all
the file import functions |
| 23:15.47 |
Maloeran |
brlcad or
Erik could probably tell you much more about CAD design and
software, I'm just the guy working on the next raytracing
engine |
| 23:15.49 |
louipc |
cad55
completely different programs, brl-cad doesn't think in terms of
lines, faces, edges. |
| 23:16.26 |
louipc |
only solid 3d
geometry |
| 23:17.50 |
cad55 |
can you give
me just a simple example of a command to do 2d square with 20x20
-10 ofset from Z? |
| 23:17.51 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: prior.sh missing from
dist |
| 23:17.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/prior.sh: add header and footer; embed the
psql sql statement directly |
| 23:18.37 |
cad55 |
ok, make it
3d then if possible |
| 23:19.15 |
louipc |
It's been
awhile since I've actually used it but I'm pretty sure you can do
that in one line |
| 23:19.26 |
cad55 |
I mean I
compiled some programs before, blacklisted drivers, troubleshooted
my grubs and lilos but i woudl like to have an idea of the
sintax |
| 23:20.13 |
cad55 |
ok, then I
will give it a go and then will post the results |
| 23:20.15 |
cad55 |
thanks
all |
| 23:20.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/prior.psql: remove the unnecessary script --
directly embedded into prior.sh now |
| 23:21.09 |
louipc |
did you get
the MGED tutorial pdf? |
| 23:22.30 |
brlcad |
cad55:
brl-cad's main modeler is called "mged" - there's a fairly
comprehensive introductory pdf on the website (that louipc is
referring to) |
| 23:23.07 |
brlcad |
if you're
interested in a 2D modeling, there are other tools more suited
(like qcad, which has features more in line with other drafting
tools like autocad) |
| 23:23.46 |
louipc |
qcad is about
the only one I know |
| 23:23.51 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
design is more 3D-centric similar under the hood to packages like
solidworks, pro/e, and unigraphics (though with a consirably less
polished user interface) |
| 23:24.21 |
louipc |
hehe I would
love to get something other than qcad |
| 23:24.27 |
louipc |
maybe... |
| 23:24.34 |
brlcad |
the interface
is quite extentible and supports plugins, as is the entire brl-cad
package (contains more than 400 tools related to modeling,
rendering, signal processing, etc) |
| 23:25.17 |
brlcad |
we have way
more of the foundation needed for a drafting program than even
qcad, but pretty much no GUI support for creating/editing from that
approach |
| 23:25.29 |
brlcad |
would make a
great project for someone with initiative |
| 23:25.42 |
louipc |
really!?
that's great |
| 23:26.34 |
brlcad |
most of
brl-cad's main deficiencies are in the GUI -- the geometry and
rendering engine underneath is quite
robust/stable/extensive |
| 23:27.28 |
louipc |
so brlcad can
look at things both as pure solids as well as line, face
etc..? |
| 23:28.50 |
brlcad |
louipc:
there's support in brl-cad for creating/representing those 2D
entities, though again -- very minimal gui support for doing
anything with them |
| 23:28.57 |
louipc |
hmm I think
I'll start by making a package for my distro hah |
| 23:29.16 |
cad55 |
I see..you
have a good foundation and walls but somebody needs to still do the
windows and doors :) |
| 23:29.40 |
louipc |
brlcad that's
good I thought that the internals were only pure solids. but there
is the bag of triangles... I thought there might be something
behind that |
| 23:29.47 |
brlcad |
the support
was mainly added so that for converted solid models that were
modeled with sketches and extrusions, they could be converted to a
suitable preserving format in brl-cad land |
| 23:30.23 |
brlcad |
cad55: not a
bad analogy :) |
| 23:31.09 |
louipc |
do you think
it's possible to analyse those formats to be converted into pure
solid instead of bag of triangles? |
| 23:31.51 |
brlcad |
maybe also
like, the land was purchased, foundation layed, structure in place,
all materials on hand with diagrams on what needs to be done -- but
only a couple builders so progress chugs along at its own
pace |
| 23:32.08 |
brlcad |
louipc: that
depends entirely on the converter being used |
| 23:32.25 |
louipc |
well I mean
to write a converter to do that |
| 23:32.43 |
dtidrow |
and none of
the builders are very good at finish work ;-) |
| 23:32.57 |
brlcad |
the dxf-g
converter, for example, will bring in 2D entites as brl-cad 2D
entities (not triangles) |
| 23:33.08 |
brlcad |
though that's
a relatively recent feature addition |
| 23:33.11 |
louipc |
I notice
solidworks can import an IGES file and it asks if you want 'feature
recognition' |
| 23:33.31 |
brlcad |
alas, IGES is
dying |
| 23:33.36 |
louipc |
then it seems
to do some real nice work |
| 23:33.52 |
louipc |
oh? what's
the next big thing? |
| 23:34.27 |
brlcad |
STEP |
| 23:35.20 |
brlcad |
that's our
next major converter task .. monumental task to say the least, one
of the most complex formats to ever be created -- but it's an ISO
standard and pretty much fully replaces IGES |
| 23:35.30 |
louipc |
ah yeah
that's the ISO one |
| 23:36.00 |
louipc |
customers
will send my company either IGES or Parasolid models
though |
| 23:36.08 |
brlcad |
that's a task
that's going to take several man-years to implement
fully |
| 23:36.31 |
louipc |
I looked at
STEP ages ago but I don't see anyone using it, I like the idea
though |
| 23:36.36 |
brlcad |
nothing
preventing anyone from taking the existing iges importer and
improving it though |
| 23:37.04 |
louipc |
yea, except
being too busy ;) |
| 23:37.21 |
brlcad |
step has been
under development for a few years, but only starting to take off
within the past couple -- slow adoption, but IGES is dead so it is
pretty much guaranteed to eventually occur |
| 23:37.54 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 23:51.16 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (header.sh footer.sh): add recognition of
python |
| 23:52.49 |
louipc |
CIA-5 is
showing us the TODO list? |
| 23:54.36 |
brlcad |
CIA shows
actual commits to the source code as they happen |
| 01:13.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1348 files in 82 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 01:13.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
Sweeping license updates. Documentation is fully relicensed to the
BSD |
| 01:13.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
Documentation License (a minor variant of the FreeBSD Documentation
License and |
| 01:13.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: BSD
License). All GPL code (mostly application code) is converted to
the LGPL |
| 01:13.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: and
now also specifically declares version 2.1, revoking the blank
check to the |
| 01:13.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: FSF.
The intent of these sweeping changes are to simplify the licensing
terms |
| 01:14.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: and
increase overall flexibility of use, both externally (to users for
their |
| 01:14.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (409 files in 16 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 01:14.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
Sweeping license updates. Documentation is fully relicensed to the
BSD |
| 01:14.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
Documentation License (a minor variant of the FreeBSD Documentation
License and |
| 01:14.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: BSD
License). All GPL code (mostly application code) is converted to
the LGPL |
| 01:14.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: and
now also specifically declares version 2.1, revoking the blank
check to the |
| 01:14.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: FSF.
The intent of these sweeping changes are to simplify the licensing
terms |
| 01:14.28 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: and
increase overall flexibility of use, both externally (to users for
their |
| 01:16.27 |
``Erik |
O.O |
| 02:10.42 |
Maloeran |
Confirmed by
Mark, they did look into non-immigration visas too. Oh well, I
guess it's time to get that degree paper thing |
| 04:04.37 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 08:26.16 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:02.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg *
10brlcad/src/other/libregex/libregex.dsp: |
| 10:02.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: not
a BRL-CAD core library |
| 10:02.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
remove misleading multibyte-character support |
| 10:04.43 |
clock_ |
What does -a
mean in pix-png? It seems to not have a manpage. |
| 10:05.01 |
clock_ |
Turn upside
down? Or 16-bit input? |
| 10:07.14 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg *
10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.dsp: |
| 10:07.14 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
ignore opennurbs_zlib_memory.cpp in win32-msvc build |
| 10:07.14 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: we
do not need the openNURBS wrapper functions zcalloc() and zcfree()
since we're just letting zlib do it's own thing |
| 11:17.31 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:49.46 |
brlcad |
noir:~
morrison$ man brlcad/src/util/pix-png.1 | grep autosize -a
autosize the input file to determine file image height and
width |
| 11:56.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: write up a summary of the recent sweeping
license changes. i.e. describe gpl->lgpl and gfdl/gpl->bdl as
well as the motvations, impact, and intent. |
| 11:56.39 |
brlcad |
basically -a
means "try to figure out how big the file is", which is only useful
if your image has "standard" common dimensions and it guesses
correctly. |
| 12:51.44 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:19.56 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg_
(n=rossberg@66.111.56.50) |
| 13:49.01 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:08.03 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 14:45.20 |
``Erik |
eh? |
| 17:21.30 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Java
Partition objects now include entrance and exit surface
normals |
| 17:49.39 |
clock_ |
lol
Java |
| 17:49.48 |
clock_ |
and BRL-CAD
goes downhill too :) |
| 18:15.39 |
Maloeran |
Woah, there's
a Java interface for librt o.O |
| 18:17.43 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, it's
for MUVES of course |
| 18:19.33 |
Maloeran |
Don't worry
clock_, I'll try not to let anyone write a Java interface for the
new raytracer :) |
| 18:24.38 |
brlcad |
clock_:
that's been in there for several years, jni wrapper to a subset of
librt |
| 18:26.07 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
good luck -- that's actually the next generation muves 3 there that
uses the jni interface, not muves-s2 |
| 18:26.49 |
brlcad |
but then with
that interface, there's a *lot* more room for flexibility and
marshalling of data in and changing/defining the api |
| 18:27.28 |
brlcad |
that's
certainly not on this year's agenda I'd have to guess
though |
| 18:27.57 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, it's
just that it implies performing the "shading" in Java ; which, as
you know, will make performance collapse |
| 18:50.47 |
``Erik |
the 'shading'
being done in the C variant has no performance, so there's a
possibility that a java version may be faster... |
| 18:51.12 |
``Erik |
not the one
actually being worked on, but *A* version might be... |
| 18:51.13 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 19:34.09 |
Maloeran |
Erik, can I
"safely" assume floats are always 4 bytes and doubles 8 bytes? (
flipping endianess of floats between nodes ) |
| 19:36.14 |
Maloeran |
It checks if
the floating point encoding is the same between the platforms of
course, but I'm wondering if different widths exist |
| 19:50.21 |
``Erik |
I don't think
the C spec makes any assertion on width of float or
double? |
| 19:50.47 |
``Erik |
hm, k&r
is showing bunches of different bitwidths for, uh, ... all C
types |
| 19:51.14 |
``Erik |
I can't think
of a machine that doesn't use 32 and 64 bits ieee754/854 for float
and double |
| 19:51.23 |
``Erik |
a modern one,
that is |
| 19:51.42 |
``Erik |
I mean, the
honeywell 6000 used 36 and 72 |
| 19:55.58 |
Maloeran |
Ahah,
cool. |
| 19:56.23 |
Maloeran |
I know that C
doesn't garantee anything on floating point datatypes, but I still
need to flip bytes somehow |
| 19:56.59 |
Maloeran |
I was
wondering if some arch could have used 8 and 16 bytes
floats/doubles, or the same width for both, etc. |
| 19:57.23 |
``Erik |
ieee754 is
the standard that describes bit packing and width |
| 19:57.50 |
``Erik |
mebbe, I saw
mention of "half precision" floats using 16b that might be going
into ieee754 |
| 19:57.55 |
``Erik |
and quad
precision with 128b |
| 19:58.42 |
``Erik |
um, intel,
amd, and ibm/ppc are all ieee754 fpu equiped... |
| 19:59.10 |
Maloeran |
I have
alternative paths to handle non-ieee floats anyhow, it's just the
width I was wondering about |
| 19:59.36 |
``Erik |
(bear in
mind, intel 386's usually came without an fpu, you have to shove in
an x387 or get a 386dx for fpu hw, otherwise the c compiler faked
it... common availability ofa n fpu is still pretty
new) |
| 19:59.49 |
``Erik |
if it's not
ieee754, then all bets are off on width |
| 20:01.55 |
Maloeran |
It still
requires storage in memory somehow, so it's likely to be some
2-4-8-16 bytes wideness |
| 20:02.17 |
``Erik |
most machines
are these days... several were 36 bit words |
| 20:04.05 |
``Erik |
hrm, looks
like the cell uses ieee... at least, they say it supports their
rounding modes |
| 20:04.27 |
``Erik |
and since ibm
has the modules for ieee754 for their ppc's, I can't see them not
reusing it |
| 20:05.02 |
Maloeran |
It's really
just the width I was concerned about, non-ieee is already
handled |
| 20:05.20 |
``Erik |
I'm going to
imagine that for the target hardware, it's ok to make those
assumptions |
| 20:05.36 |
Maloeran |
The graph
preparation code plays right in the binary representation of
floats/doubles, if it's IEEE |
| 20:05.42 |
``Erik |
ieee
specifies widths, so it's all good |
| 20:05.43 |
Maloeran |
Right,
thanks |
| 20:06.22 |
``Erik |
damn this
code is retarded :/ |
| 20:07.04 |
Maloeran |
Are you
working on the raytracing comparison framework? |
| 20:07.09 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 20:08.12 |
``Erik |
loading a
'geometry' file in this thing involves setting up a new tcl
interpreter, shoving crap into it, then deleting it... instead of
using the one already running |
| 20:08.30 |
Maloeran |
Strange... |
| 20:08.44 |
Maloeran |
By the way,
did Lee obtain the leave to complete his doctorate or
not? |
| 20:08.59 |
``Erik |
it's still
being looked at, heh |
| 20:09.33 |
``Erik |
someone had
an ego writing this thing, too |
| 20:09.49 |
``Erik |
mebbe I
should start doing that... struct mything_s *erik; |
| 20:10.00 |
Maloeran |
Ahaha |
| 20:11.02 |
Maloeran |
Have you
considered stepping up to take Lee's place, if he leaves? I think
you said you weren't interested |
| 20:12.34 |
``Erik |
<-- just a
lowly db2, that's a db4 position |
| 20:12.58 |
``Erik |
also; I've
pissed off the fucktards in mgmt as much as anyone else |
| 20:13.22 |
Maloeran |
At the indian
restaurant in Baltimore, Lee said he was looking for a competent
person to take his place if he leaves, and he would gladly give it
to someone like you |
| 20:13.40 |
Maloeran |
Though I
don't know, I'm not too aware of what's going there |
| 20:21.31 |
``Erik |
heh, there's
political bs in the way *shrug* |
| 20:21.56 |
``Erik |
plus I d'no
think I'd be interested in ever doing what he does... meetings and
ties ain't mah thang |
| 20:24.15 |
dtidrow_work |
what a
heretical idea... ;-) |
| 20:28.35 |
``Erik |
blah->destructor(blah); stinks, I'd
rather see blah_destructor(blah); :/ |
| 20:29.16 |
Maloeran |
Unless that
destructor varies a lot based on the state of "blah", a function
pointer does the job then |
| 20:32.17 |
``Erik |
blah is
malloc'd, so you'd have to free() it after calling that destructor
(or declare it on the stakc and pass &blah, which'd be much
neater) |
| 20:32.18 |
``Erik |
imma rewrite
all this shit in lithp one of thethe dayth |
| 20:33.24 |
Maloeran |
By the way,
is that blocking one-ray-at-a-time interface threaded? In that
design, I would somewhat need an arbitrary pointer per thread to
keep track of state on a per-thread basis... |
| 20:34.00 |
Maloeran |
Single
threaded, globals would do I guess |
| 20:34.12 |
*** join/#brlcad magicalex
(n=54dd4221@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:35.25 |
``Erik |
I was hoping
to talk to lee about extending the interface to allow bundled
shtuff |
| 20:35.45 |
``Erik |
and maybe
feeding that back to the codemonkeys on the retarded side of the
fence |
| 20:35.55 |
``Erik |
but he's out
today |
| 20:37.40 |
Maloeran |
Bundled,
non-blocking with callbacks, letting me do the threading would be
nice. An interface allowing intelligent management of ray sources
and displacements would be a blessing |
| 20:38.11 |
Maloeran |
Anyhow, I'll
try to make up something that works no matter the interface you
give me |
| 20:39.00 |
``Erik |
*shrug* the
sales pitch was about integrating it into a specific program, so
I'm gonna give you as close to their interface as I can |
| 20:39.21 |
``Erik |
changing it
much is going to get them up in a knot and either fighting it or
not using it |
| 20:54.25 |
brlcad |
the initial
approach of getting it working with the interface that is already
in place, for better or worse, is still the best first step for
various reasons |
| 20:55.45 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 20:55.59 |
``Erik |
this code
makes me want to run away o.O |
| 20:56.36 |
brlcad |
adding
non-blocking callbacks to librt might be the next step, showing how
it would change interaction with librt .. get them to
understand/adopt those changes |
| 20:57.28 |
brlcad |
now how
non-blocking results would actually be beneficial to the various
algorithms the other codes are using is where I could easily see
there being big problems |
| 20:58.28 |
``Erik |
their
fundamental design is very serial and it hasn't aged well
:/ |
| 20:58.50 |
brlcad |
it makes
sense for a ray intersection engine to answer asynchronously, but
then ray-tracing in general can trivially compute asychronous as
most of the computations are pretty much independent |
| 20:59.48 |
brlcad |
their design
isn't independent, just about everything depends on something else,
very serial, very much a "how thick is this region" and they can't
really ask any more questions or do anything without guessing
blinding until they get that answer |
| 21:01.59 |
brlcad |
part of it is
their design, but part of it is also the domain and approach of the
algorithms (which predominantly is neither their responsibility or
in their domain of expertise to be designing) |
| 21:02.56 |
``Erik |
<-- thinks
it could be just as parallelizable as raytracing if it were
described in terms of shading opposed to what they do
now |
| 21:03.06 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 21:04.00 |
``Erik |
yeah, each
ray would be a fair bit heavier to compute, but if ya shoot 10,000
non-interacting primaries, it should theoretically scale linearly
on a 10,001 cpu machine |
| 21:04.32 |
brlcad |
it probably
could be, it correlates closely for some interactions |
| 21:05.23 |
brlcad |
but you don't
convince someone riding a bike about the benefits of driving a car
by trying to force them into the seat and telling them how much
their bike sucks ;) |
| 21:05.53 |
brlcad |
there's
plenty of downsides (from their perspective) that are entirely
relevant |
| 21:06.01 |
Maloeran |
Quite right,
slaming a car door in his face is so much more effective
:) |
| 21:06.17 |
``Erik |
mal: your
bike sucks |
| 21:06.18 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 21:06.27 |
dtidrow_work |
who's 'they',
btw? |
| 21:06.38 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
primary user |
| 21:06.54 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 21:06.55 |
brlcad |
the
vulnerability/lethality analysis developers |
| 21:07.05 |
``Erik |
heh,
"vlad" |
| 21:07.15 |
``Erik |
dealing with
the current crop sure does suck the life out of ya |
| 21:07.20 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 21:07.25 |
Maloeran |
Non-blocking
sure would be nice, but especially, processing of rays in
batches |
| 21:09.37 |
brlcad |
sure,
Maloeran .. but when their entire problem-space is for a given
algorithm is just a handful of dependent rays (done over and over,
with dependencies at each step) .. it's like telling someone that's
eating a salad at a local diner that they could have a much bigger
salad if they bought in bulk at the local sams club |
| 21:09.59 |
``Erik |
s/analogies/
... |
| 21:10.01 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 21:10.01 |
brlcad |
they simply
wouldn't care .. at all .. no matter how many heads of lettuce they
can get for a buck |
| 21:10.07 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I got
the idea. If they need to know A before doing B, and B before doing
C ; we should process 50000 A rays, followed by 50000 B and
C |
| 21:10.25 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 21:10.40 |
``Erik |
we get the
same issue (sorta), mebbe WORSE in the "hall of mirrors"
scenario |
| 21:11.16 |
brlcad |
they can be
convinced to change their shopping and eating habits, but that's a
long-term issue frankly pretty much outside the scope of the
project |
| 21:11.32 |
Maloeran |
If we imagine
global illumination where rays bounce around constantly, we don't
want to follow one single ray until the end |
| 21:11.56 |
Maloeran |
We could
process the first hit for 4000 rays, second hit for the same
bouncing 4000 rays, etc. |
| 21:12.28 |
``Erik |
for optical,
that's fine.. |
| 21:12.45 |
``Erik |
but, y'knw,
if an optical ray hits glass, you shoot two secondaries and mix the
result |
| 21:12.51 |
``Erik |
they shoot
several hundred |
| 21:13.27 |
Maloeran |
I would have
used probabilities to decide which way it goes, but that works
too |
| 21:13.50 |
``Erik |
(but that's
ok, they could do those several hundred in parallel, and they could
do all their primaries in parallel) |
| 21:13.53 |
``Erik |
y'know, if
they chose to |
| 21:14.23 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 21:14.39 |
Maloeran |
So the
problem could be re-engineered, but it's not going to happen so we
have to handle individual blocking rays. All right |
| 21:15.25 |
brlcad |
this is like
the bi-weekly bitch-fest isn't it? |
| 21:15.34 |
``Erik |
oh
yeah |
| 21:15.45 |
``Erik |
if I gotta
deal with their code, you'll hear me go off. |
| 21:16.00 |
``Erik |
and I gotta
deal with their code. |
| 21:16.08 |
dtidrow_work |
lol |
| 21:16.41 |
brlcad |
you know,
nobody really disagrees -- and it's not even a new idea to question
the way they do what they do and point out how it could/should be
better .. been that way for decades |
| 21:17.13 |
brlcad |
but it's
mostly pointless, or at least impractical without actually working
hand-in-hand with them for weeks to make a change happen (and that
just isn't going to happen either anytime soon) |
| 21:17.14 |
Maloeran |
I realize you
are tired of hearing it over and over, when you can't do much about
it |
| 21:17.23 |
``Erik |
I know, and
that's why everyone on the second floor is doing what they're
doing |
| 21:17.33 |
brlcad |
right, and
that worked out great |
| 21:17.43 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:17.44 |
``Erik |
but, y'know,
they're wrong, everyone's a moron, only I'm right :D
*duck* |
| 21:17.54 |
dtidrow_work |
lol |
| 21:18.22 |
``Erik |
(my award
winning attitude, that's why all the users adore me :D
) |
| 21:19.34 |
dtidrow_work |
brlcad:
``Erik's public lynching is next week, right? ;-) |
| 21:19.35 |
brlcad |
attitude did
more to the performance than java or the architecture itself ever
did |
| 21:19.56 |
``Erik |
at least thte
activity of exploration into what the old software does and why,
with the documentation... that's a good thing.. a step in the right
direction. when that's done, maybe an appropriate replacement can
be started |
| 21:20.52 |
``Erik |
the
architecture when viewed from orbit seems ok, up close it's ...
nonoptimal |
| 21:22.04 |
``Erik |
probably a
combo of too many people working on it too early and too much "ooh
shiney" without the opportunity to assess and fix (or remove) some
mistakes |
| 21:22.05 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 21:22.22 |
``Erik |
*gripebitchcomplain* |
| 21:23.43 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
nah, he does enough to torture himself by not speaking out (at
least tactfully) when it matters .. but then he's also partially
escaped the sphere of influence so he doesn't have to be involved
as much |
| 21:23.56 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 21:24.50 |
brlcad |
riight,
you're about as tactful as a box of tacks |
| 21:24.58 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:25.03 |
``Erik |
trained
attack tacks |
| 21:25.10 |
dtidrow_work |
rofl |
| 21:28.12 |
Maloeran |
As Caligula
Ceasar walked among his lowly people anonymously, what a difference
it would make if a manager were to listen here. He could even claim
the ideas to "fix" these doomed projects were his own |
| 21:33.00 |
Maloeran |
Erik, do you
have any idea if Lee had plans for me after this task? No need to
ask him, I'm just wondering because SURVICE apparently plans to
keep me busy |
| 21:33.03 |
brlcad |
not likely,
because it's still not taking all the considerations into account
that all become part of the issue.. mitigation of risks, not just
doing things for academic purity (who the f*ck cares if it's not
perfect, it does the job and does it well), the
time/money/resources it would take to change it in a major way,
documenting the new approach, *validating* that you really are 100%
sure you didn't F-something up (the
are-you-willing-to-bet-y |
| 21:34.58 |
``Erik |
mal: I'm sure
he does, whether or not he can execute them is nto necessarily in
his power... and competent coders aren't exactly a common beast, if
they can figure out how to make money off of you, they'll try to do
it *shrug* |
| 21:35.34 |
``Erik |
once ya got a
little paid experience on your cv, it's not hard to stay working
*shrug* |
| 21:36.27 |
Maloeran |
Well sure,
SURVICE has plans. I would personally prefer to work with you guys
somehow, if you are fine with that |
| 21:36.48 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't have any say in anything, one way or the other
*shrug* |
| 21:37.10 |
brlcad |
if you had a
specific task in mind, that would make selling a point a whole lot
easier -- I have several in mind myself that I could
raise |
| 21:37.50 |
``Erik |
hm, the
an/fsq-7 was kinda big |
| 21:38.17 |
brlcad |
que? |
| 21:39.10 |
``Erik |
old computer,
2000m^2 floor space (half an acre) |
| 21:40.03 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 21:40.05 |
``Erik |
and wifi to
boot |
| 21:42.23 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: the
next thing I'd think would be cool to try and implement would be 1)
a global illumination renderer using your tracer as a basis and 2)
try to apply the same evaulation approach directly to implicit
geometry |
| 21:43.16 |
brlcad |
and perhaps
3) a variety of shaders maybe implementing the renderman shader
interface |
| 21:43.42 |
``Erik |
heh, to see
how bad bmrt's butt can get whupped? :D |
| 21:44.07 |
brlcad |
maybe for
starters :) |
| 21:44.51 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, the
whole raytracer was initially designed to solve high-performance
global illumination, so I would be very interested in
that |
| 21:45.07 |
brlcad |
at the order
of magnitude he's got, if it could be sustained, he could even
potentially give some of the big names a run for their
money |
| 21:45.14 |
Maloeran |
It's really
designed for that problem specifically. Though I wonder, what use
would that be for the ARL? |
| 21:45.28 |
``Erik |
making pretty
pictures? |
| 21:45.39 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
signal processing, signatures, pretty pictures, pretty animations,
etc |
| 21:46.24 |
``Erik |
adrt has
"rise" for path tracing, and it cooked a good bit of cpu time here
for pretty pictures :) |
| 21:46.26 |
brlcad |
add support
for multispectral energies and you can suddently generate real
radar, infrared, microwave images |
| 21:47.01 |
Maloeran |
All right.
SURVICE wants traversal of tetrahedron graphs with per-tetrahedron
ray refraction implemented too |
| 21:47.06 |
brlcad |
rise was very
much brute force, but very much "sells the cake" because the
results look great |
| 21:47.19 |
brlcad |
ew |
| 21:47.20 |
``Erik |
heh, yeah,
and radiated energy distribution (like figuring out cell phone
coverage, for example) |
| 21:47.28 |
brlcad |
sounds finite
elementish |
| 21:47.54 |
brlcad |
i bet that's
exactly what they want it for actually .. hm |
| 21:48.07 |
``Erik |
per-tetrahedron ray refraction?
O.o |
| 21:48.20 |
Maloeran |
It's to
handle refraction of lasers mounted on aircrafts, going through
layers of air of different density and temperature |
| 21:48.25 |
Maloeran |
It refracts
the rays a bit |
| 21:48.27 |
``Erik |
ah |
| 21:48.37 |
``Erik |
interesting
way to cope with atmospherics |
| 21:48.52 |
Maloeran |
It's rather
nice, I hesitated for a very long time between a sector graph and a
tetrahedron graph, so I'll be able to try the second
way |
| 21:49.04 |
brlcad |
that same
technique can be used to propagate energies and forces, it's the
basics of FEA |
| 21:59.24 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 23:24.12 |
Maloeran |
*yawn* Urgh,
I didn't sleep well last night because I was too emotionally moved
by the "death" of HAL-9000 in "2010: The year we make
contact" |
| 23:24.23 |
``Erik |
heh,
dork |
| 23:25.49 |
``Erik |
I'm dorky,
too, though *shrug* read mccarthy's "the robot and the
baby" |
| 23:26.17 |
``Erik |
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/robotandbaby.html |
| 23:26.28 |
Maloeran |
I haven't
read that one, thanks |
| 23:26.36 |
``Erik |
it's very
short |
| 23:28.21 |
``Erik |
(in case
you're not brushed up, mccarthy was a move and shaker in the 50's
and 60's with ai stuff... he was also the guy who axiomed the
notion of programming computers and discovered lithp, invented
things like function declarations and conditionals in programming,
etc) |
| 23:28.21 |
Maloeran |
Thinking
about it, it's really weird to have even more altruistic feelings
towards AIs than humans |
| 23:28.42 |
``Erik |
aiomized |
| 23:28.45 |
``Erik |
axiomized |
| 23:29.13 |
Maloeran |
Ah I see,
thanks. I was mixing names with Clarke |
| 23:31.35 |
*** join/#brlcad cad34
(n=3ba7fd52@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:57.34 |
``Erik |
The C
programming language requires that all memory be accessible as
bytes, so C implementations on 36-bit machines use 9-bit
bytes. |
| 23:57.35 |
``Erik |
neat |
| 23:57.59 |
``Erik |
(and a
testament to how untrustworthy C's types are) |
| 23:58.21 |
brlcad |
the sticky
bit |
| 00:08.57 |
``Erik |
stupid
fucking snow |
| 00:13.15 |
Maloeran |
So you bought
your bicycle already! I know how you feel |
| 00:16.20 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 00:16.21 |
``Erik |
no |
| 00:16.27 |
``Erik |
it went
blizzard style while I was driving |
| 00:17.21 |
``Erik |
so I was
trying to navigate twisty hilly backroads with an inch of fresh
powder (unsalted roads), a jackass tailgating me, and summer tires
on 1.75 tons of grossly overpowered steel |
| 00:17.40 |
``Erik |
oh, and
visibility of ~10m at some points |
| 00:18.29 |
``Erik |
took me over
an hour to get home :/ and the first half our of it was ok, full
speed... (usual travel time of 35-40 minutes) |
| 00:18.36 |
``Erik |
so that last
5-10 minutes took half an hour or so |
| 00:19.36 |
Maloeran |
Eheh. That's
a long way from work, spending 10% of one's conscious life in a car
driving |
| 00:20.03 |
``Erik |
yeah... it
is |
| 00:20.37 |
``Erik |
however; it's
pleasantly relaxing, it gives my brain something fairly simple to
focus on so it can change gears from the bs of work |
| 00:20.44 |
Maloeran |
Can you work
from home some/most days? |
| 00:20.53 |
``Erik |
not unless I
filled at forms and got approved |
| 00:21.09 |
Maloeran |
It could be
worth the time investment |
| 00:21.16 |
``Erik |
twinky was
approved for 3 days a week, I just havne't gotten to the
paperwork |
| 00:26.13 |
Maloeran |
I'm a bit
annoyed by how buying 3 dual-dual-opterons is about the same price
as one octo-opteron |
| 00:27.42 |
Maloeran |
The extra
circuitry in 8 ways Opterons sure is costly, the motherboards
too |
| 00:27.42 |
dtidrow_work |
octo-opteron
meaning eight actual chips, or four dual-core Opterons? |
| 00:27.42 |
Maloeran |
Four
dual-core |
| 00:29.28 |
dtidrow_work |
depending on
the type of workload, having a single quad dual-core system might
still be the best way to go |
| 00:29.50 |
Maloeran |
Yes, clearly.
Gigabit will saturate with distributed raytracing on 3 boxes of 4
cores |
| 00:30.12 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 00:30.51 |
dtidrow_work |
are there any
eight socekt Opteron mobo's out there? |
| 00:31.43 |
Maloeran |
Yes, haven't
really looked into these |
| 00:32.11 |
dtidrow_work |
http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/APEXX/apexx8_overview.asp
- drool.... |
| 00:34.31 |
Maloeran |
To scale
properly on such boxes, we will have to store a copy of the graph
in the memory bank of each processor die |
| 00:35.04 |
Maloeran |
Graph &
geometry, of course |
| 00:35.50 |
Maloeran |
Any
recommendation, Erik, (2or3)*dual-dual or quad-dual? |
| 00:36.09 |
Twingy |
numaPIC |
| 00:36.35 |
Maloeran |
Yes! Highly
scalable processing for PIC |
| 00:38.07 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps a
motherboard with multiple gigabit ports would almost scale, one per
processing node |
| 00:39.57 |
Maloeran |
Infiniband
cards are somewhat expensive, but that would be fun to play
with |
| 00:47.55 |
Twingy |
you should
see if mellanox has a hardware implementation of tcp/ip to allow
for > 1.1Gb on their infiniband |
| 00:48.29 |
Twingy |
they
mentioned they might be working on a next gen card in
2004 |
| 00:49.00 |
Twingy |
Maloeran, you
can always buy a 10Gb PCI Express NIC for alot less |
| 00:49.32 |
Maloeran |
Can't get a
price on these without contacting them, tsk |
| 00:49.54 |
Maloeran |
That
generally means "out of my budget" :) |
| 00:51.00 |
Twingy |
$750 a
card |
| 00:51.11 |
Twingy |
$3k for an 8
port switch |
| 00:51.19 |
Maloeran |
That's about
what I saw elsewhere |
| 00:52.08 |
Twingy |
a PCI Express
to PCI Express card would be useful |
| 00:52.15 |
Twingy |
with a ribbon
cable |
| 00:52.40 |
Twingy |
writing a
driver for that would be a snap |
| 00:53.19 |
dtidrow_work |
interesting
idea |
| 00:53.53 |
Twingy |
I could
probably make one on my CNC mill |
| 00:54.08 |
Twingy |
just a double
sided PCB really |
| 00:54.50 |
Twingy |
won't get
much faster than that |
| 00:55.12 |
Maloeran |
I think I'll
just start slowly with two dual-dual-opterons on gigabit, I'll grow
my home cluster over the months |
| 00:55.48 |
Twingy |
you should
take one class at a university |
| 00:56.00 |
Twingy |
then you will
get university account and access to infinite computing
resources |
| 00:56.29 |
Twingy |
I have a
bazillion computers at my finger tips at njit |
| 00:57.16 |
Maloeran |
I see
:) |
| 00:57.33 |
Twingy |
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dansdata.com/images/cmoy/dcin280.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dansdata.com/cmoy.htm&h=174&w=280&sz=15&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=U0FzNIGLlOw2EM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDC%2BInput%2BJack%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN |
| 00:59.03 |
Twingy |
every time I
eat macaroni and cheese I get gas, hrmph |
| 01:00.39 |
dtidrow_work |
Twingy:
tinyurl.com - for future reference ;-) |
| 01:01.37 |
Twingy |
what's a
matter your web browser 8-bit or something? |
| 01:02.00 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 01:02.19 |
dtidrow_work |
just more
convienent |
| 01:06.59 |
Twingy |
Maloeran, you
could install two gigabit cards and expand the socket buffer in the
kernel |
| 01:07.10 |
Twingy |
then plex
across the two |
| 01:07.35 |
Twingy |
that should
scale almost linearly |
| 01:08.04 |
Maloeran |
Right. I
don't think the bandwidth would saturate if high-level results (
pixels or so ) are transfered |
| 01:08.21 |
Twingy |
adrt run
smooth on 100Mb |
| 01:08.29 |
Twingy |
across 8
nodes |
| 01:08.32 |
Maloeran |
Pixels or raw
intersection results? |
| 01:08.40 |
Twingy |
compressed
pixels |
| 01:08.52 |
Twingy |
on gigabit I
don't compress |
| 01:09.24 |
Maloeran |
Ah.
1024*768*3, 2.5mb per frame, 40 frames per second for 100mb/s.
-> Gigabit is almost filled up |
| 01:09.42 |
Twingy |
tried
compression? |
| 01:10.03 |
Twingy |
I had decent
success with libz |
| 01:10.19 |
Maloeran |
Yes I
noticed |
| 01:10.34 |
Maloeran |
I haven't
used compression, I still got stuff to complete in graph state
synchronisation between nodes |
| 01:11.07 |
Maloeran |
I'm just
saying that theorically, 3 boxes of 4 cores would saturate the
gigabit |
| 01:11.15 |
Twingy |
I'm so happy,
my shrink tube came today |
| 01:11.25 |
Maloeran |
Shrink
tube? |
| 01:11.28 |
Twingy |
I've been
making cables galore, this triton Jr rocks my socks off |
| 01:11.37 |
Twingy |
yes, it
shrinks when you heat it |
| 01:11.47 |
Twingy |
I have a
1500W heat gun I bought for $19.95 somewhere |
| 01:11.59 |
Twingy |
the triton
outputs banana |
| 01:12.15 |
Twingy |
so I made a
banana to j-type, banana to banana, banana to dc jack, and banana
to deans is in the mail |
| 01:12.56 |
Maloeran |
Is the final
objective related to rocketry, robotics? |
| 01:12.58 |
Twingy |
I can charge
lithium polymer, lead acid, nickel metal hydrides, and nickel
cadmiums |
| 01:13.07 |
Twingy |
both
actually |
| 01:13.13 |
Maloeran |
Ah,
neat |
| 01:13.25 |
Twingy |
an aerial
platform for testing my rocketry electronics |
| 01:13.42 |
Twingy |
I just burnt
$650 on getting back into r/c planes |
| 01:13.51 |
Twingy |
I'm all
tooled up |
| 01:13.53 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, I saw
the picture yes |
| 01:14.20 |
Twingy |
I'm going to
convert half the basement (the unfinished part) into my rocket and
r/c workshop |
| 01:14.36 |
Twingy |
and leave the
garage for making parts and boards |
| 01:15.05 |
Twingy |
until I build
my shed out back |
| 01:15.09 |
Maloeran |
I see, sounds
good. I almost assumed you had enough room in the
garage |
| 01:15.12 |
Twingy |
either this
summer or next |
| 01:15.26 |
Twingy |
I don't have
the garage temperature controlled |
| 01:15.31 |
Twingy |
(yet) |
| 01:15.33 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, good
point |
| 01:15.42 |
Twingy |
soldering in
sub zero temperatures is tricky |
| 01:15.47 |
Maloeran |
;) |
| 01:15.51 |
Twingy |
and I'm not
heating the garage while it's not insulated |
| 01:16.30 |
Twingy |
3 more gcam
releases and it's back to rocketry |
| 01:16.46 |
Twingy |
next one
should be tonight or tomorrow |
| 01:17.34 |
Maloeran |
I'm vaguely
planning to build some kind of home cluster over the months/years,
I think I'll need that when I'm ready to get back into
AI |
| 01:19.15 |
Twingy |
buying
computers sucks you dry >_< |
| 01:19.43 |
Twingy |
nice thing
about the tools I'm buying is they won't be obsolete for a good 15
- 25 years |
| 01:20.20 |
Twingy |
all I'm
missing is the $2500 lathe |
| 01:20.27 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, indeed.
Unfortunately, I have no other need or interest than computer
hardware |
| 01:21.01 |
dtidrow_work |
unless you
pick up used computers |
| 01:21.18 |
Twingy |
hard to build
next gen algorithms on obsolete hardware |
| 01:21.20 |
Maloeran |
I already got
my cluster of amd-k6 and Pentium 2, I need an upgrade
;) |
| 01:21.30 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 01:21.47 |
Twingy |
especially
"timing" related ones |
| 01:22.51 |
dtidrow_work |
well, for
'home' clusers... |
| 01:23.16 |
dtidrow_work |
you generally
take what you can get :-) |
| 01:23.31 |
Twingy |
I speant
almost two hours writing this yesterday: *(int *) &_f =
(t&0xff000000)>>24|(t&0x00ff0000)>>8|(t&0x00007f00)<<8|(t&0x000000ff)<<23|(t&0x00008000)<<16;
} |
| 01:23.41 |
Maloeran |
That's what I
did.. but my overclocked desktop beats the other 6 boxes
combined |
| 01:23.49 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 01:24.14 |
Twingy |
converts big
endian PIC floats to little endian IEEE 754 floats |
| 01:24.15 |
Maloeran |
Twingy, a
weird partial byte swapping? |
| 01:24.22 |
Maloeran |
Oh I
see |
| 01:24.30 |
dtidrow_work |
PIC
floats? |
| 01:24.33 |
Twingy |
for the
autopilot |
| 01:24.39 |
Twingy |
microchip
floats |
| 01:24.45 |
Twingy |
exponential,
sign, mantissa |
| 01:24.47 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 01:24.54 |
Twingy |
where IEEE754
is mantissa, exponent, sign |
| 01:24.55 |
dtidrow_work |
that PIC
:-) |
| 01:25.45 |
dtidrow_work |
haven't
played with those in years (PICs, that is) |
| 01:25.56 |
Twingy |
I use them
religiously at work now |
| 01:26.58 |
dtidrow_work |
IIRC, they
have an 'interesting' machine architecture |
| 01:27.10 |
dtidrow_work |
Twingy: for
what? |
| 01:28.07 |
Twingy |
all sorts of
stuff |
| 01:28.21 |
Twingy |
autopilots
mainly |
| 02:06.22 |
``Erik |
<--
probably woulda loaned ya some of the junk ya may've needed for
r/c's... |
| 02:24.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 02:24.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: add
support for arbitrary matrix transformations to torus primitive ..
while |
| 02:24.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
there's certainly question on what this means to the mathematics of
the implicit |
| 02:24.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: form
(they're no longer mathematically a torus), the underlying
modeling |
| 02:24.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
capacity is still needed and storing a transformation matrix or at
least scaling |
| 02:24.13 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
vectors in the primitive (or above the primitive) would go a long
way to |
| 02:24.15 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
handling this somewhat unique case. |
| 02:53.27 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051616.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 03:07.26 |
``Erik |
wee, squashed
and skewed torii |
| 03:09.18 |
``Erik |
kith style,
crrrushink your torus! crrrushink your torus! |
| 03:11.35 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (axis.c font.c symbol.c): simplify,
use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given
vector |
| 03:22.14 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: simplify, use
MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative
vector values |
| 03:30.14 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add additional helper macros
MAT_DELTAS_(ADD|SUB|MUL)(_VEC)? for modifying the translation
elements (3, 7, 11) in a 4x4 transformation matrix |
| 03:30.41 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/pl-dm.c util/plrot.c rt/do.c
rt/read-rtlog.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting
translation elements to negative vector values |
| 03:31.18 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (common.c kurt.c tube.c):
simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a
given vector |
| 03:31.55 |
brlcad |
mm.. pure
donuts |
| 03:34.12 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c edsol.c): simplify, use
MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given
vector |
| 03:34.15 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (rtif.c usepen.c): simplify, use
MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative
vector values |
| 03:36.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: s/NUL/MUL/ typo |
| 03:44.38 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add similar MAT_SCALE sibling
macros for adding, subtracting, and multiplying the scaling
elements just to be consistent |
| 03:48.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: elements_per_mat is a square
of elements_per_plane |
| 03:50.05 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
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| 05:15.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (14 files in 14
dirs): |
| 05:15.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
since the pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex files are now in CVS, disable
the CLEANFILES |
| 05:15.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
directive that deletes them. now that they're sorted.. if they're
different, |
| 05:15.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: the
cvs update notice should be significant now that they're
sorted |
| 05:15.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
consistently. |
| 05:29.20 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (30 files): allow the import
function transformation matrix argument to be NULL, use an identity
matrix in that situation. |
| 05:30.21 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
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*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
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| 07:50.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (copyright.sh indent.sh): sanity checking -
don't care if configure.ac is readable, just see if it
exists |
| 08:34.00 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 08:49.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: skipping |
| 09:01.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: sorta support filenames with
spaces (the for loop will still choke) |
| 09:39.33 |
*** join/#brlcad cad53
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*** part/#brlcad cad53
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``Erik |
brlcad:
lunch... japanhouse... the usual time... |
| 15:16.25 |
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brlcad |
hm, that
means I'd need to shower |
| 16:06.35 |
``Erik |
dot... dot...
dot... |
| 16:20.45 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 16:20.56 |
dtidrow |
just getting
around to too, eh? |
| 18:21.04 |
``Erik |
seems he
decided against shorting |
| 18:21.06 |
``Erik |
showering |
| 18:21.17 |
``Erik |
osake was
sugoii ii desu ne |
| 18:44.47 |
``Erik |
heh, damn I'm
lame, I had to babelfish that one |
| 18:45.33 |
``Erik |
(but...
you're in agreement? I didn't think you drank? so how would you
know if sake is very good?) |
| 18:46.55 |
Maloeran |
Oh :), just
provided an unintelligible answer to a question with the same
attribute |
| 18:47.23 |
Maloeran |
Feel free to
keep me informed on any interface talk |
| 18:47.43 |
``Erik |
lee gave a
thumbs up, I told him where to snarf it |
| 18:48.00 |
Maloeran |
What did he
approve exactly? |
| 18:49.10 |
``Erik |
full access,
and I told him the name of the person he should talk to at the
place the cvs repo machine is, as well as your handle and this
channel |
| 18:49.18 |
``Erik |
ummm, his
nick was like "joevalley" or something I think? |
| 18:49.32 |
Maloeran |
I don't
remember seeing that |
| 18:50.10 |
``Erik |
ok, the
grammar and ordering is all out of whack for sure on this, but
think english order/grammar... |
| 18:50.25 |
Maloeran |
Understood
:) |
| 18:50.43 |
Maloeran |
I don't like
commiting half-way done code |
| 18:50.48 |
``Erik |
out of
curiousity, how would the well formed sentence be structured?
:D |
| 18:51.13 |
``Erik |
well, 'half
done' is a necessicity, just try not to compile in a "broken"
state |
| 18:51.58 |
Maloeran |
But theres's
nothing new to see or test if the new code isn't
completed |
| 18:52.30 |
Maloeran |
Though the
bit-packed graph cache is a bit better, not a single bit wasted
now |
| 18:52.33 |
``Erik |
nothing at
the user level, of course, but I tend to read your commits and try
to understand what and why |
| 18:52.39 |
``Erik |
and where
you're going |
| 18:53.25 |
``Erik |
and I'd
rather read a book made of sections, chapters and paragraphs than a
single long stream :D |
| 18:53.49 |
``Erik |
so my poor
feeble brain has time to grasp the meaning before moving
on |
| 18:54.03 |
Maloeran |
Okay :), give
me a day or two and I'll commit |
| 18:54.27 |
Maloeran |
One of the
reasons I don't like commiting early is that there are big blocks
of personal notes, comments that would make no sense to other
people, right in the code |
| 18:54.36 |
Maloeran |
Sometimes
using a mix of french and english |
| 18:54.51 |
``Erik |
<-- works
frequent commits into his development mentality, so not seeing it
is alien |
| 18:54.57 |
``Erik |
but I'm a
dork like that |
| 18:55.49 |
``Erik |
I don't care
if it's in french while you're working on it, as long as teh end
product is coherent to me... :D if nothing else, when people want
to know how progress is going, I can at least say "it's
progressing" if I see commit traffic |
| 18:55.52 |
Maloeran |
It's just
that I put my thinking process as raw comments in the code, so it's
heratic ; and the comments take the way out when the code is
done |
| 18:56.34 |
Maloeran |
Okay, 1-2
days and I'll commit |
| 18:56.53 |
``Erik |
heh, if you
codified your thinking process via repository history, then others
can look at the history and gain some understanding into your
process and why you made your decisions, no? :D |
| 18:57.27 |
Maloeran |
That would
imply taking time to write comments that could make sense to anyone
else... :) I don't understand my own raw comments after a
week |
| 18:58.07 |
``Erik |
hehehe,
millions of postit notes with random sentence fragments?
:D |
| 18:58.21 |
Maloeran |
Yes, that's
exactly what it is :), except that it's in the code |
| 18:58.37 |
``Erik |
<-- still
interested in the deltas, and it does no harm to 'back up' your
work frequently, no? |
| 18:58.43 |
Maloeran |
All right
though, I'll try to do more than a large monthly commit |
| 18:59.13 |
``Erik |
I mean, hell,
you see the cia messages here, we commit stuff to brl-cad all the
time... |
| 18:59.24 |
``Erik |
and in my
case, a good portion of it is only half thought out ;) |
| 18:59.36 |
Maloeran |
Very small
commits, yes, but there are a lot of people working on
it |
| 18:59.42 |
Maloeran |
Ah
:) |
| 19:00.08 |
``Erik |
<--
commits just as frequently on his personal projects where he's the
only developer |
| 19:00.09 |
Maloeran |
Do I also
commit temporary code for personal testing purposes? |
| 19:00.16 |
``Erik |
often in
smaller commits, heh |
| 19:00.22 |
``Erik |
sure, why
not? |
| 19:00.33 |
Maloeran |
*shakes head*
Okay |
| 19:00.47 |
``Erik |
it's a way of
recording history, communicating, and backing up your
data |
| 19:01.25 |
Maloeran |
Stuff will be
commited for Monday when the guy looks at it |
| 19:01.55 |
``Erik |
maybe you'll
be knee deep in something you're trying to figure out and a commit
would let someone see where your head is and maybe ask golden
questions that help you, or offer possible
alternatives? |
| 19:02.36 |
``Erik |
it's your
code and you get to decide, but I'm interested and want to keep up
to speed on it :D (and if I'm being unreasonable, someone please,
ffs, tell me) |
| 19:02.37 |
Maloeran |
So you want
to participate in the code? :) I hadn't assumed so, I'll change my
approach then |
| 19:03.02 |
Maloeran |
Oh, you are
not being unreasonable at all. Look Erik, I have always coded
alone |
| 19:03.03 |
``Erik |
I'm already
half participating out on a fringe, but in using an old
snapshot |
| 19:03.36 |
``Erik |
binding
rayforce and adrt into a benchmark program is my current top
priority non-emergency task |
| 19:03.51 |
Maloeran |
Great |
| 19:03.59 |
``Erik |
(now I'm
focusing very much on tie at the moment, as I know my copy of
rayforce is outdated) |
| 19:05.48 |
Maloeran |
I'll shower
and eat breakfast before it closes at 15h, thanks for your
guidance |
| 19:06.10 |
``Erik |
later, dude
:D |
| 19:12.01 |
``Erik |
nice http://home.earthlink.net/~krautj/sassy/sassy.html |
| 19:16.02 |
archivist |
bah too many
brackets |
| 19:20.36 |
``Erik |
func1(func2(func3())) vs (func1 (func2
(func3))), the second has too many brackets but the first is ok?
:D |
| 19:20.52 |
``Erik |
or, say,
(func1 {func2 [funk3]}) ? |
| 19:21.32 |
archivist |
I dont expect
any brackets in plain assembler |
| 19:24.32 |
``Erik |
(lisp or
scheme style) macros would be insanely awesome in an asm type
thing |
| 19:25.38 |
``Erik |
makes me
wanna do os work that much more :D |
| 19:26.42 |
archivist |
ew |
| 19:27.13 |
``Erik |
<-- wants
a modern lispos |
| 19:27.44 |
``Erik |
perhaps
because I ate too much wallcandy as a child :D |
| 19:28.26 |
brlcad |
~seen
joevalleyfield |
| 19:29.05 |
ibot |
joevalleyfield
<n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel
#brlcad, 371d 1h 7m 36s ago, saying: 'may i buy a
vowel?'. |
| 19:31.22 |
brlcad |
frequent
small commits are a "good thing" |
| 20:19.33 |
Maloeran |
I think
Lisp-style macros would be really bad in assembly |
| 20:20.03 |
Maloeran |
Even if you
would repeat the same macro twice in high level code, the assembly
code should probably be different for each instance |
| 20:38.51 |
``Erik |
erm...
yeah... uh... that's why I said lisp style instead of c style...
:D |
| 20:45.59 |
``Erik |
qjkl |
| 21:30.28 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 21:32.13 |
*** part/#brlcad IriX64
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| 21:55.34 |
brlcad |
curious, how
do most feel about embedded tabs? e.g., int foo;[tab][tab]/* some
comment */ |
| 21:58.03 |
brlcad |
at least
doesn't answer the question |
| 21:59.10 |
Maloeran |
If not for
comments besides code, I don't see the point of embedded tabs :).
In other words, I wouldn't be too fond of these |
| 22:00.08 |
brlcad |
might also
see them in comments for example to line something up
perhaps |
| 22:00.25 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.39 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.44 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.47 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:02.03 |
brlcad |
personally,
I've found them to be more annoying than helpful simply because
some editors are thrown off by them |
| 22:02.34 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I'm not
too fond of tabs generally. If you have seen my code, I use space
everywhere |
| 22:03.51 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 22:05.11 |
brlcad |
it's not so
much preference as it is collaborative impact that I'm concerned
with .. gut feeling is that it's probably not a big deal either way
and the few bytes that are saved probably don't matter
much |
| 22:06.51 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: I
believe you perhaps mean to say you can't stand indentation levels
of 8 .. rather different statement |
| 22:07.27 |
brlcad |
the only
portable tabwidth is 8, indentation and use of tab characters at
intervals of 8 are usually the question |
| 22:07.28 |
``Erik |
your
embedding is just indenting after the code... I might have a line
that says \t\t\tint i;\t\t/* i is the index. nehe taught me
commenting */\n |
| 22:08.44 |
``Erik |
<--
tabhappy mofo :D but ain't religious on it |
| 22:10.09 |
brlcad |
use of tabs
or not isn't really a concern, it's whether this mass update I'm
about to commit that turns all embedded ones into tabs or not is
what's at hand |
| 22:10.50 |
brlcad |
whitespace at
the beginning of lines is already commented on in hacking, we have
standard practice on that and footers to encourage/enforce
it |
| 22:11.05 |
brlcad |
but embedded
is another question |
| 22:11.12 |
``Erik |
as long as
they linux up with the ex: command in a comment or 8 if none
exists, I'm all down with it :D |
| 22:11.18 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 22:11.21 |
``Erik |
linux???
line |
| 22:12.50 |
brlcad |
linux? |
| 22:13.06 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 22:13.31 |
brlcad |
yeah,
embedded is pretty much orthogonal to ex: |
| 22:14.55 |
``Erik |
wait, just
-*- option -*- ? :D |
| 22:15.34 |
brlcad |
we don't use
emacs header lines |
| 22:15.48 |
brlcad |
footer
variable blocks |
| 22:15.49 |
``Erik |
I thought I
saw 'em somewhere in the src |
| 22:15.54 |
``Erik |
oh |
| 22:16.04 |
``Erik |
<-- not an
emacs guy... needs to learn |
| 22:16.35 |
brlcad |
header lines
have funky rules about having to be within the first few lines of
the file (similar to vi's need to be near the end) |
| 22:17.02 |
brlcad |
the emacs
variable blocks can be anywhere, so it's more convenient to bundle
them with the vi line |
| 22:17.31 |
brlcad |
then all your
formatting junk is out of sight most of the time and respected by
the two main editors |
| 22:19.50 |
``Erik |
aaanyhoo, was
just throwing out that it'd be interesting to see how many files
are delinquent wrt |
| 22:21.50 |
brlcad |
oh, most are
atm |
| 22:22.02 |
brlcad |
i've only run
the indent script on a few directories |
| 22:22.32 |
brlcad |
there's
preprocessor gunk that screws things up that has to be
manually/slowly fixed, otherwise I'd let it run on all
files |
| 22:29.55 |
louipc |
making the
code more readable? |
| 22:30.22 |
brlcad |
readable
depends on the reader |
| 22:30.29 |
brlcad |
but more
consistent, yes ;) |
| 22:33.51 |
louipc |
good stuff.
Do you need help? |
| 22:35.11 |
brlcad |
heh,
always |
| 22:35.25 |
``Erik |
hey |
| 22:35.28 |
``Erik |
lets kill
vdeck |
| 22:35.28 |
louipc |
because that
sounds like something I could do :D |
| 22:35.41 |
brlcad |
with over a
million lines of code, there's always "something" inconsistent that
can be cleaned up |
| 22:35.48 |
brlcad |
``Erik: what
for? |
| 22:36.12 |
``Erik |
why not? I'd
hope no one uses gift anymore :D |
| 22:36.16 |
brlcad |
if it's
causing major problems sure, but if it's not.. leave it alone
:) |
| 22:36.25 |
``Erik |
aw, c'mon, I
wanna kill it |
| 22:36.28 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 22:36.36 |
brlcad |
actually, I
had someone ask for gift stuff just a few weeks ago |
| 22:36.41 |
``Erik |
crazy |
| 22:36.46 |
brlcad |
it
is |
| 22:36.48 |
Twingy |
go shoot them
then |
| 22:36.56 |
``Erik |
brl-cad is
pretty big, a little pruning might be beneficial |
| 22:37.15 |
Twingy |
``Erik, not
until it gets a flight simulator built in |
| 22:37.26 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 22:37.30 |
``Erik |
um...
hmmm |
| 22:37.33 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 22:38.08 |
brlcad |
getting rid
of existing functionality that has no/little overhead is of minimal
value, and more than likely just would irritate the handful of
people that would miss it |
| 22:38.25 |
brlcad |
more
benficial would be to fix the bigger problems.. |
| 22:38.40 |
dtidrow_work |
somebody
would notice and whine bitterly, eh? |
| 22:38.49 |
``Erik |
meh
*shrug* |
| 22:39.36 |
brlcad |
just about
every time |
| 22:39.38 |
brlcad |
within six
months almost guaranteed |
| 22:40.00 |
brlcad |
and it
because fuel to a fire |
| 22:40.05 |
brlcad |
s/because/becomes/ |
| 22:41.37 |
louipc |
is there a
guide to how the code should be formatted? |
| 22:42.42 |
brlcad |
louipc:
HACKING file has the details |
| 22:44.00 |
brlcad |
pretty
standard stuff, should resemble linux kernel with 4 char indents
mostly |
| 22:44.41 |
brlcad |
i.e. GNU
coding standards with basic K&R indentation style |
| 22:45.40 |
louipc |
hmm I'll have
to read up on the specifics of those |
| 22:46.00 |
brlcad |
there are
examples in the hacking file, wikipedia has a simple coverage as
well |
| 22:48.25 |
brlcad |
there is a
script in cvs that will actually utilize emacs to automatically
format up sources for you according to the style, and it does a
great job |
| 22:48.53 |
brlcad |
but it does
get confused by some preprocessor logic that changes curly brace
indentation |
| 22:49.05 |
brlcad |
e.g. #ifdef
__whatever__ |
| 22:49.15 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:49.18 |
brlcad |
#else |
| 22:49.26 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:49.27 |
louipc |
yeah
hehe |
| 22:49.28 |
brlcad |
#endif |
| 22:49.36 |
brlcad |
messes up on
the double indent |
| 22:50.01 |
brlcad |
simple to
accommodate, just remove the indent or remove the ifdef even better
if possible |
| 23:20.54 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:32.57 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (19 files): ws |
| 23:38.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: (log message trimmed) |
| 23:38.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: This
script updates a given set of files (or most all files in
this |
| 23:38.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
project) with consistent whitespace formatting. The script can be
run |
| 23:38.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: on
individual files or in batch mode, and is intended to be
run |
| 23:38.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
periodically to help ensure consistent formatting. Currently,
the |
| 23:38.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
following actions are performed by default (but can be
selected |
| 23:38.38 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
individually at run-time): |
| 23:46.53 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include ws.sh |
| 00:00.58 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 00:06.24 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 00:42.38 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 00:42.41 |
``Erik |
free? |
| 00:42.51 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 00:43.04 |
``Erik |
aight...
they're all on the webpage and it's fast |
| 00:43.05 |
brlcad |
most of the
podcasts are free |
| 00:43.26 |
brlcad |
yep, but
clicking the *subscribe* is pretty darn convenient |
| 00:43.33 |
``Erik |
aight *shrug*
:D |
| 00:43.35 |
brlcad |
it'll
automatically send me the new ones |
| 00:43.40 |
``Erik |
swank |
| 00:43.52 |
``Erik |
I might need
to do that, heh |
| 00:44.18 |
brlcad |
these video
podcasts are getting addictive |
| 00:44.27 |
``Erik |
I have a
bookmark folder of "daily urls" that I click "open all" on every
day |
| 00:45.08 |
brlcad |
getting daily
nbc news, daily italian lesson, npr fresh air, strongbad,
thistlepod, and a few others now |
| 00:45.12 |
``Erik |
freshmeat,
slashdot, linuxgames, happypenguin, opengl.org, gamasutra, ibm's
dev page, my comic page, zefrank, bash.org/?latest, qdb.us/?latest,
... |
| 00:45.50 |
brlcad |
yeah, most of
those are either on my rss list or are visited when I get the
chance |
| 00:45.55 |
``Erik |
(the comic
page crawls 20 or so webcomics and dumps the actual comic from each
in a single big unified page) |
| 00:46.04 |
brlcad |
i've
seen/used your comic page |
| 00:46.12 |
``Erik |
ah, heh
:) |
| 00:46.13 |
brlcad |
i try to
avoid comics these days |
| 00:46.23 |
brlcad |
too many, too
much time :) |
| 00:46.24 |
``Erik |
I have a v2
almost done, just some bughunting I think |
| 00:46.50 |
``Erik |
it has the
notion of user and comic state, so if you've already seen the
image, it won't show it again |
| 00:47.29 |
``Erik |
(and if you
miss a day, it shows you all teh ones you haven't seen) |
| 02:08.23 |
louipc |
hehe
strongbad |
| 02:08.51 |
louipc |
I wonder if
there's a daily finnish lesson podcast |
| 02:18.15 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 02:40.17 |
Twingy |
seen the
Pico-ITX? |
| 02:40.51 |
bjorkBSD |
no. |
| 03:48.05 |
*** join/#brlcad ChanServ
(ChanServ@services.) |
| 03:48.05 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by
irc.freenode.net |
| 04:00.40 |
louipc |
have you
heard of the linux foundation yet? |
| 04:00.57 |
bjorkBSD |
who is
that? |
| 04:01.17 |
louipc |
apparently
they're gearing up to go against microsoft |
| 04:01.55 |
louipc |
a merger of
odsl and fsg |
| 04:02.20 |
louipc |
http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/About |
| 04:02.37 |
bjorkBSD |
ah. |
| 05:24.52 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 06:05.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.3: update example to use libbu
bu_getopt |
| 06:09.25 |
*** join/#brlcad cad61
(n=51d56cf5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 06:13.06 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: declare k in
f_mirror |
| 06:13.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c: change references to
f_mirror to rt_mirror |
| 06:29.15 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: uses libbu and libbn,
libadd declare them |
| 06:33.39 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: dependency ordering
on libadd libraries |
| 06:38.21 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: document all of the various library
dependencies. add a description of the newly added libbrlcad as
well. |
| 06:38.36 |
brlcad |
good
stuff |
| 06:57.17 |
Maloeran |
A stupid
question ; does anyone have a term to refer to the entities of a
processing network, may they technically be clients, servers,
masters or slaves? |
| 06:58.35 |
Maloeran |
Just trying
to get proper terms for the API, "nodes" and "links" are already
internally used for other concepts |
| 06:59.50 |
brlcad |
processing
node is what first comes to mind |
| 07:00.52 |
brlcad |
might get
away with peers if they are also peers |
| 07:00.55 |
Maloeran |
Right. I'm
trying to avoid confusion on internal terms |
| 07:01.28 |
Maloeran |
"Peers"
wouldn't be too appropriate, it's more master/slave
based |
| 07:02.30 |
Maloeran |
Thanks, I'll
use "Node" in the API and try to avoid confusion within the
source |
| 07:07.47 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:07.50 |
brlcad |
yeah, there's
not much terminology when it comes to generic descriptions of
network connectivity |
| 07:09.00 |
brlcad |
connections,
nodes, points, links, junctures, hmm.. |
| 07:12.25 |
*** join/#brlcad clock__
(i=clock@84-72-61-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:31.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (156 files in 12 dirs): Updated to the latest
release of libpng, from version 1.2.8 to version 1.2.16. Includes
all of their ('without config script' distribution)
files. |
| 07:44.08 |
brlcad |
dammit..
per-program cppflags wasn't added until automake 1.7 |
| 08:18.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.c: need stdlib.h for exit(),
quell warning |
| 08:24.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: |
| 08:24.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
rename ogl_open, ogl_close, and ogl_choose_visual to have an fb_
prefix to avoid |
| 08:24.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
namespace collisions with libdm. this should probably be done
more |
| 08:24.51 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
comprehensively, but gets past the linking error du jour. declare
funcs one per |
| 08:24.51 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: line
while we're in here. |
| 08:27.25 |
brlcad |
what is this
.. |
| 08:27.32 |
brlcad |
sleep .. you
speak of |
| 08:27.47 |
Maloeran |
It's very
relaxing, you should try it sometimes |
| 08:27.56 |
brlcad |
sounds like
devil talk |
| 08:28.03 |
brlcad |
keep your
voodoo magic to yourself |
| 08:29.58 |
brlcad |
hm. i wish
there were a 24 hour gym nearby.. i could really go for a workout
right about now |
| 08:30.20 |
Maloeran |
Running
outside in the snow won't do the trick? It works for me |
| 08:30.46 |
brlcad |
there's not
much snow out, but plenty of ice I"m sure |
| 08:31.01 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes,
that's less pleasant |
| 08:31.18 |
brlcad |
rather dark
to see it too this far out |
| 08:32.57 |
brlcad |
plus, my
knees and quads are already sore from yesterday, I'd rather do some
heavy lifts and something less pounding on the knees .. followed by
a nice dip in a hot tub or sauna.. |
| 08:33.00 |
brlcad |
mmMMMmmmm |
| 08:33.37 |
Maloeran |
So I'm
guessing you don't have to be at work at 7h30 tomorrow, right?
:) |
| 08:36.00 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:36.50 |
brlcad |
I don't, but
I think I will go in anyways .. should be pleasant enough to get
some work done |
| 08:36.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (12 files in 10 dirs): |
| 08:36.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
remove the png headers from our include directory. png_cppflags are
now |
| 08:36.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
provided by configure and appropriately set to src/other/libpng if
we're not |
| 08:36.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
using a system libpng. this should help to avoid header conflicts
aside from |
| 08:36.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: just
unnecessarily duplicating 3rd party headers. use the new
png_cppflags as |
| 08:36.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
appropriate, though have to add it to _CFLAGS since per target
_CPPFLAGS support |
| 08:36.57 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
wasn't added until automake 1.7 (and brl-cad allows anything
1.6.0+). |
| 08:37.12 |
brlcad |
maybe keep
hacking here until the gym opens at 5, then in to work |
| 08:37.58 |
Maloeran |
Impressive.
I'm barely able to write code after being awake a mere 18
hours |
| 08:39.01 |
brlcad |
varies for
me, sometimes good for 20, sometimes 40 .. depends what I'm doing
during my circadian low |
| 08:40.17 |
brlcad |
my schedule
rotated a few times last week from a couple all-nighters, so I
don't think I'll hit a low until about 8am right now |
| 08:40.47 |
brlcad |
so makes for
an easy 40 as I'll be energized after the workout, and
busy |
| 08:43.28 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, nice.
My circadian cycle used to be completely messed up, days of 30
hours, for years... I really made an effort to adopt a normal daily
cycle when the contract began |
| 08:44.32 |
clock_ |
I went
sleeping yesterday at midnight instead of the recently more usual
22.40 and my rhythm is going to be screwed up from that for about
the next week ;-) |
| 08:48.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (91 files in 31 dirs): |
| 08:48.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
convert all of the lingering getopt calls to bu_getopt (as well as
the related |
| 08:48.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
getopt globals optind, opterr, optarg) -- libbu's getopt has the
benefit of |
| 08:48.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
being re-entrant and is portable to environments where getopt() may
not be |
| 08:48.59 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
available. |
| 10:03.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 10:03.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
check for -lstdc++ properly like any other library. add
conditionals around the |
| 10:03.47 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
openNURBS checks so if it's disabled, the checks are not performed.
rephrase |
| 10:03.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: the
availability summary (we're not necessarily linking them, they're
just |
| 10:03.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
available) |
| 14:49.42 |
bjorkBSD |
you're
aging! |
| 14:49.51 |
``Erik |
brlcad: would
it be so horrible to bump the required automake to 1.7? 99.9% of
the consumers will just use what package with it when you do a
"make dist"... |
| 14:50.41 |
``Erik |
no, my
employer does not understand the notion of 'first 40' or 'flex
time' |
| 14:52.09 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:30.52 |
Maloeran |
Woohoo,
SURVICE understood how direct deposit to canadian banks works. Time
to buy some hardware |
| 15:43.18 |
bjorkBSD |
survice sells
hardwar? |
| 15:43.20 |
bjorkBSD |
e |
| 15:43.40 |
dtidrow |
they sent
money so that he can buy some |
| 15:44.33 |
bjorkBSD |
can anyone
receive money to buy hardware? |
| 15:45.06 |
dtidrow |
heh - would
be nice, wouldn't it? ;-) |
| 15:46.00 |
dtidrow |
IIRC, they've
got some sort of consulting arrangement going |
| 15:46.10 |
bjorkBSD |
they buy him
hardware and he says 'woohoo' |
| 15:46.19 |
bjorkBSD |
hmmm. i'd
like such a gig too. |
| 15:58.33 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yes
it would be |
| 15:59.26 |
brlcad |
at least
right now, with the main dev platform still shipping
1.6.3 |
| 16:04.57 |
Maloeran |
Still awake,
Sean? :) |
| 16:06.08 |
brlcad |
yeap |
| 16:06.35 |
brlcad |
didn't make
it to the gym, though .. |
| 16:06.38 |
bjorkBSD |
say, did you
develop the industry diagram? |
| 16:06.41 |
bjorkBSD |
... it's my
wall paper :D |
| 16:06.43 |
brlcad |
mebbie
later |
| 16:06.53 |
brlcad |
bjorkBSD:
heh, neat |
| 16:08.20 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah. |
| 16:09.04 |
bjorkBSD |
i put away my
brl tutorials until i saw that cray lecture mentioning brl
:D |
| 16:10.06 |
brlcad |
=) |
| 16:10.34 |
bjorkBSD |
eh. i was
gonna use rhino. |
| 16:10.55 |
bjorkBSD |
but i found
religion so i'll stick to this. |
| 16:11.13 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 16:11.39 |
brlcad |
rhino's
pretty nice, for some purposes in particular |
| 16:11.56 |
brlcad |
entirely
limited in other ways, but nice for their market |
| 16:11.59 |
bjorkBSD |
but brl is
functionally equivalent so i'm not gonna worry about it too
much. |
| 16:14.12 |
bjorkBSD |
how come the
mged user manual isn't mentioned in the docs ... or am i not seeing
what's infront of me (as usual) ? |
| 16:14.35 |
brlcad |
bjorkBSD: not
mentioned in which docs? |
| 16:14.37 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah it's in
.ps and it starts from the bibliography but it's pretty damned
good! |
| 16:14.48 |
bjorkBSD |
the brl
docs... i didn't see it on the sourceforge site. |
| 16:15.49 |
brlcad |
ahh, mostly
because the ones that are up there were converted to html, and
nobody got around to doing that for the other volumes |
| 16:16.05 |
bjorkBSD |
oh. |
| 16:17.01 |
brlcad |
most of the
website stuff is rather "half-baked" in need of overhaul
attention |
| 16:17.11 |
bjorkBSD |
hrmmm |
| 16:17.33 |
brlcad |
with the
exception of maybe the rest of the sf project pages |
| 16:17.49 |
bjorkBSD |
okay. |
| 16:17.51 |
brlcad |
but
brlcad.org, for example, needs to be redone |
| 16:17.58 |
brlcad |
what's up
there now was literally the bare minimum |
| 16:18.56 |
brlcad |
bjorkBSD: if
you are interested in working on it, you're more than welcome
;) |
| 16:19.03 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.20 |
bjorkBSD |
i use vi and
ed so minimalism is my middle name. |
| 16:19.27 |
brlcad |
hah |
| 16:19.38 |
bjorkBSD |
however, a
user manual/info thingy is part of the product |
| 16:19.51 |
bjorkBSD |
and it really
helps make it more use-able. |
| 16:20.03 |
bjorkBSD |
so ... i'd
like to take a stab at it. |
| 16:20.15 |
bjorkBSD |
don't expect
fancy flying gifs though :-S |
| 16:20.22 |
brlcad |
i'd really at
least like to get those documents into CVS, but that's a
chore |
| 16:20.24 |
bjorkBSD |
or umm
flash-ey bits and what not. |
| 16:21.05 |
bjorkBSD |
why the hell
not? :D |
| 16:21.08 |
brlcad |
just fancy
flashy flying pngs instead? :) |
| 16:21.11 |
bjorkBSD |
hahahha |
| 16:21.57 |
brlcad |
the tutorial
series is fairly straightforward .. mainly converting them all to
docbook is just grunt work |
| 16:22.23 |
bjorkBSD |
never used
docbook. i'll find out. |
| 16:22.30 |
brlcad |
the hard
question is whether things like the industry diagram can be brought
in as anything other than an image |
| 16:23.34 |
bjorkBSD |
it's a nice
wallpaper i tell you. |
| 16:23.52 |
brlcad |
there's no
good/common standard format where I could actually get the diagram
back to the tools used to create it |
| 16:24.05 |
bjorkBSD |
what'd you
use? |
| 16:24.26 |
brlcad |
that was
mostly done in indesign |
| 16:25.34 |
bjorkBSD |
hmm |
| 16:25.41 |
brlcad |
rather
tufteish diagram, I should send it to him to see if he'd
comment |
| 16:25.51 |
bjorkBSD |
hehehehe |
| 16:26.07 |
brlcad |
it has
something like 7 dimensions of data |
| 16:27.10 |
bjorkBSD |
well, my
car's not co-operating with me and it's too cold to go play outside
so i should do something. |
| 16:27.21 |
bjorkBSD |
i might
uncover more tutorials to push me along :) |
| 16:28.28 |
bjorkBSD |
the one i'm
using is a little long in the tooth on just a chapter or two which
might fit neatly in an appendix. |
| 16:29.12 |
``Erik |
brlcad: "main
dev platform"? both fink and macports have newer automakes, as does
fbsd... :D |
| 16:29.49 |
brlcad |
``Erik: your
point being? neither of those are provided by default |
| 16:30.01 |
``Erik |
aight
*shrug* |
| 16:30.50 |
brlcad |
it's only a
minor annoyance that have to use _CFLAGS instead of _CPPFLAGS ..
hardly worth changing a fundamental version minimum |
| 16:31.31 |
brlcad |
especially
one that would make things a pita in general for the common
use |
| 16:32.33 |
``Erik |
<-- has
always taken the "it's a distributable, so I'll use whatever I have
on my system" approach, very few people should be touching the
Makefile.am's, and those that should touch them probably have a
more recent version or can get it and know what to do
:) |
| 16:32.46 |
``Erik |
you're not in
the building, are you? it's gettin' to be lunch time |
| 16:33.06 |
brlcad |
nope, I
ditched |
| 16:33.19 |
bjorkBSD |
where do i
sign, mr brl? |
| 16:33.29 |
``Erik |
dave is
disturbingly eager to check out the o club O.o |
| 16:33.29 |
bjorkBSD |
*signup* |
| 16:33.37 |
brlcad |
``Erik: even
for just myself.. it would make my daily use a pita as I'd have to
change all the macs I work with |
| 16:34.02 |
brlcad |
bjorkBSD:
right here ;) |
| 16:34.14 |
``Erik |
ok... all the
macs I work with have 1.10 from macports, it's a fundamental to my
operation as putting my dock on the side and changing to graphice
:) |
| 16:34.20 |
``Erik |
graphite |
| 16:34.20 |
bjorkBSD |
-> bjork
is a GODDESS :x |
| 16:34.22 |
bjorkBSD |
there.
done. |
| 16:34.46 |
brlcad |
that's just
because you're a bsd zealot even on the mac ;) |
| 16:35.18 |
brlcad |
bjorkBSD:
hehe |
| 16:35.52 |
``Erik |
I d'no if I'd
say "zealot".. I do have solid expectations of how machines should
operate (they should work, be efficient, and let me get my job done
with minimal fuss) that drives me towards the bsd's with a certain
package load |
| 16:36.09 |
brlcad |
yeah yeah,
it's religion ;) |
| 16:36.38 |
``Erik |
heh, at least
it's the right one ;> |
| 16:36.49 |
brlcad |
I appreciate
it to, but I also like things working without any effort on my part
to "set them up" |
| 16:37.08 |
brlcad |
when that can
be done without a setup cost, sweet |
| 16:37.30 |
brlcad |
when it
can't, se la vie .. another day |
| 16:38.08 |
``Erik |
out of the
box, a mac needs serious help... gotta get X on it, gotta get
Xcode, gotta make some symlinks, ... |
| 16:38.29 |
``Erik |
I should
stupid one of my macs back to vanilla for testing, I suppose
:) |
| 16:38.43 |
bjorkBSD |
a
script! |
| 16:38.52 |
bjorkBSD |
a setup
script! that's what your mac-y needs |
| 16:39.07 |
brlcad |
technically
you don't "gotta get X on it" nor any symlinks, and a compiler is
there by default |
| 16:39.25 |
``Erik |
hm, all 5 of
them are already 'correct', why should I make a script?
:D |
| 16:40.00 |
bjorkBSD |
hehehe to
make the 6th one easier to setup. |
| 16:40.05 |
``Erik |
hum, I
thought out of the box, it didn't have gcc... (unless you use the
developer package some versions came with) |
| 16:41.28 |
brlcad |
I've heard of
some getting a system that really had no compiler installed, but
I've yet to see one that didn't and those claiming it didn't
weren't entirely reputable |
| 16:42.31 |
brlcad |
might have
just been named something different for that matter, they support
the "posix compiler" interface too (cc, c89, c90, etc) |
| 16:44.29 |
Maloeran |
OSX is the
"main dev platform"? Gah! |
| 16:44.46 |
bjorkBSD |
the plot
thickens |
| 16:44.52 |
bjorkBSD |
Maloeran's
view dims. |
| 16:45.01 |
brlcad |
in the end,
it still comes down to usability -- if some random user downloads
the package and attempts to compile -- it's far easier to tell them
to install the dev tools (and even X11) than macports followed by a
set of command line things they have to run |
| 16:46.17 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
philosophy is to run anywhere and everywhere .. "main dev platform"
is an extension of where most of the development occurs, not any
conscious decision to support any system over any other |
| 16:46.52 |
brlcad |
if there were
active windows devs or linux devs that were out-contributing, that
would easily change |
| 16:47.12 |
Maloeran |
From my
limited experience so far, OSX seems a very poor platform
performance-wise |
| 16:48.18 |
brlcad |
a curious
statement, really, though only a tiny fraction of the entire
equation |
| 16:49.33 |
``Erik |
and, yeah, if
your code abuses syscalls and you tune it so the abuse is
acceptable on one os but not others, the other os's will look poor.
Code better. :D |
| 16:50.10 |
Maloeran |
Erik, test
that raytracing benchmark on OSX, you'll see the same
issues |
| 16:51.17 |
``Erik |
actually, I
did with librt, and I didn't see that issue... the mac screamed...
not as hard as the opterons, but it stomped the ia32 :) |
| 16:51.56 |
Maloeran |
I now have a
complete memory manager sitting on top of malloc(), but I would be
eager to point out that it provides no benefit on Linux |
| 16:53.07 |
bjorkBSD |
hmmm maybe i
should dust off my indigo2 ;) |
| 16:53.09 |
``Erik |
(in fact, of
all the cpu's and os's I tested, the g5/osX was the #3 spot in
performance, the top two being opterons running fbsd and linux.
Absolute worst was ia32 (p4-xeon) running linux) |
| 16:53.16 |
bjorkBSD |
oh it still
lacks a monitor. |
| 16:53.23 |
bjorkBSD |
(to do...
splurge on monitor) |
| 16:53.34 |
brlcad |
bjorkBSD:
heh |
| 16:53.41 |
brlcad |
splurge |
| 16:54.07 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah. after i
develop my inventions in brlcad and sell them, of course
:D |
| 16:54.14 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 16:54.33 |
Maloeran |
Erik, I guess
they are less abusive in large memory allocation/freeing than my
graph preparation code |
| 16:54.47 |
Maloeran |
Even though
it's all dynamically allocated |
| 16:55.26 |
``Erik |
you should
invent and patent a business model for coping with the patent
system :D |
| 16:55.42 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: I
actually wrote/ran a malloc analysis tool a few years ago whilest
investigating a problem with malloc on 10.2 -- ran the tool across
versions of the OS, ran on different hardware, different
OSs |
| 16:55.50 |
Maloeran |
"Patent on
how to circumvent patents" |
| 16:56.12 |
bjorkBSD |
you're
patenting google.com/patents? :P |
| 16:56.50 |
brlcad |
OS X 10.3 and
10.4's malloc performance is actually rather decent in comparison,
it was amazingly better than everything else for some allocation
sizes, or on par at others |
| 16:57.03 |
brlcad |
a lot of
variability in the lower allocation size ranges |
| 16:57.06 |
``Erik |
still got the
data handy? and did you just do malloc and free, or did you do
calloc and realloc, as well? (realloc tends to be one of the places
where abuse really shows the dfiference between dlmalloc and
phkmalloc) |
| 16:57.57 |
Maloeran |
Ah... I don't
know the details, but I know that my original graph preparation
code would make OSX spend 90% of it's time in "syscalls", due to
its aggressive freeing and zero'ing of pages |
| 16:58.01 |
brlcad |
i ran
calloc/realloc at the time and didn't notice really any relative
difference on the first few tests, so in the interest of time
stopped |
| 16:58.30 |
Maloeran |
Code than ran
in 10 seconds on Linux was taking several minutes on Erik's OSX
box, I could hardly believe it |
| 16:58.30 |
brlcad |
``Erik: of
course, I never get rid of any data ;) |
| 16:59.35 |
``Erik |
phkmalloc
guarantees contiguous wire memory, so if it cannot cleanly grow the
memory, it allocates a new area and copies the data, then frees the
old one... dlmalloc dicks with the mmu lsu and just lives with
insanely fragmented memory |
| 16:59.59 |
Maloeran |
Insanely
fragment memory is not a problem |
| 17:00.21 |
Maloeran |
Caching and
prefetching work in the process address space, not the translated
addresses |
| 17:00.37 |
``Erik |
that
depends... |
| 17:00.54 |
Maloeran |
And anyway,
realloc() was not the issue, I don't think there's any of that in
the prep |
| 17:01.17 |
``Erik |
if y ou have
something like hotswap domains where you can remove physical memory
from a live machine, fragmented memory makes the release code much
more complicated (therefore bug prone) |
| 17:01.40 |
``Erik |
the ugly and
bad of fragmented memory is there, but it's the os's job to cover
it up *shrug* |
| 17:02.21 |
Maloeran |
Sacrificing
performance because it's "more bug prone" is not a good argument
for me :) |
| 17:02.48 |
``Erik |
adrt's
initial file reader was something like read a page, realloc, read a
page, ... it was ok on linux, but crawled on bsd :) |
| 17:03.05 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it still
does that to collect triangles |
| 17:11.39 |
bjorkBSD |
hmm. |
| 17:11.48 |
bjorkBSD |
i have an
idea. |
| 17:11.53 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): include
bu.h and link libbu for bu_getopt |
| 17:18.12 |
Maloeran |
All right,
it's decided, it's going to be Clovertown 4 cores dies |
| 18:16.46 |
*** join/#brlcad cad46
(n=57a08567@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:29.55 |
brlcad |
speaking of
strongbad feed subscriptions, new one out today =) |
| 18:34.46 |
``Erik |
w00t |
| 18:35.04 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 18:35.17 |
``Erik |
'strong
badathlon' was out a couple days ago, dude |
| 18:35.31 |
brlcad |
haircut |
| 18:36.03 |
``Erik |
huh, not
showing up at the webpage |
| 18:37.00 |
brlcad |
ah, not
new |
| 18:37.24 |
``Erik |
ah ha...
podstar |
| 18:40.04 |
brlcad |
looks like
the feed is set up to dish them out at random, maybe because i'm
not "caught up" or somesuch |
| 18:51.15 |
``Erik |
brlcad:
ports/misc/nut |
| 18:52.28 |
``Erik |
curses, so
it'd work just fine on that machine in belize :) |
| 19:03.08 |
*** join/#brlcad bobbens
(n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) |
| 19:06.47 |
brlcad |
heh,
funny |
| 19:43.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/SDLMain.h
rise/master/SDLMain.h): unused files |
| 19:47.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (52 files in 16 dirs): finish
changing all #defined symbols to uppercase... |
| 21:30.03 |
*** join/#brlcad pcman
(n=524c1dd7@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:30.37 |
pcman |
hello |
| 21:32.12 |
pcman |
can somebody
help me to see if the BRL-CAD is a right choise for me. many
thanks |
| 21:34.18 |
brlcad |
pcman:
howdy |
| 21:34.43 |
pcman |
hello
brlcad |
| 21:34.49 |
brlcad |
pcman: can
you pinpoint your need on this diagram? http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 21:35.01 |
brlcad |
that might
help you see if it's even in the ballpark ;) |
| 21:35.37 |
pcman |
I am
developing application for CAD engineering |
| 21:35.57 |
brlcad |
owhat
sort? |
| 21:36.04 |
brlcad |
s/ow/of
w/ |
| 21:36.05 |
pcman |
more exatly
steel detailing and fabrication software on windows |
| 21:36.24 |
pcman |
3d model
=> details |
| 21:36.36 |
brlcad |
that's
starting to get into the CAM realm, but continue.. |
| 21:36.54 |
pcman |
from 3d model
I create 2d drawings |
| 21:37.13 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 21:37.18 |
pcman |
fabrication
(assembly) |
| 21:37.24 |
pcman |
and
overview |
| 21:37.43 |
pcman |
currently I
use a brep solid modeler |
| 21:38.13 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 21:38.30 |
brlcad |
what sort of
2D drawings to you create? |
| 21:38.42 |
brlcad |
raster/vector? |
| 21:38.50 |
pcman |
vector |
| 21:38.50 |
brlcad |
engineering
diagrams? |
| 21:38.58 |
pcman |
not |
| 21:38.58 |
brlcad |
ala
blueprints |
| 21:39.14 |
pcman |
not
diagams |
| 21:40.16 |
pcman |
sorry I am
not sure about the term |
| 21:40.30 |
brlcad |
how do you
currently use the brep solid modeler (which one?) .. you model
something in 3d, output a vector diagram, and feed that to the
steel detailing machine? |
| 21:41.07 |
pcman |
I need to
create vectorial 2d cut to a 3d model |
| 21:41.31 |
pcman |
3d isometry
with hidden line removal |
| 21:42.18 |
pcman |
the output
must be vectorial (I further process it
programmatically) |
| 21:42.41 |
pcman |
for dimension
symbols, hatch, etc |
| 21:42.52 |
brlcad |
hm, brl-cad
can generate the latter, but alas not in a vectorized format
currently |
| 21:43.00 |
brlcad |
example:
http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 21:43.15 |
pcman |
I saw this
thanks |
| 21:43.37 |
brlcad |
most of the
image output is configurable, but it's certainly not vector
format |
| 21:43.39 |
pcman |
the of rtedge
is always an image |
| 21:43.45 |
pcman |
? |
| 21:43.55 |
brlcad |
it could be
vector format, but it would require source
modifications |
| 21:44.00 |
brlcad |
yes, it
is |
| 21:44.30 |
pcman |
and I can
have access pogamatically to it? |
| 21:44.50 |
brlcad |
i played with
some tools that generate a vector image from raster images, but
they take a fair bit of hand tweaking to get a good vector
rep |
| 21:45.01 |
pcman |
I
see |
| 21:45.13 |
brlcad |
all of
brl-cad source code is available (free, open source) |
| 21:45.30 |
pcman |
currently I
use amodeler (Autodesk) |
| 21:45.58 |
pcman |
I saw this
and seems to be a great application |
| 21:46.42 |
pcman |
I wanted
first to check if it's good for my needs and then to digg into the
sourcecode |
| 21:47.12 |
brlcad |
there is a
lot of functionality under the hood, but with minimal investment in
some aspects (e.g. user interface, usability, etc) |
| 21:48.14 |
pcman |
yes. I can
understand this. It's not a comercial application |
| 21:48.14 |
brlcad |
there is an
API on the entire geometry layer, so you could certainly use the
geometric information in a given model and build up a vectorized 2D
projection |
| 21:48.48 |
pcman |
this is what
I need |
| 21:49.10 |
brlcad |
rtedge under
it's current implementation basically shoots some sized grid of
rays into the scene and queries the geometry types .. it then
evaluates the ray results to determine where there are pixels that
span a geometric edge |
| 21:49.53 |
brlcad |
instead of
building up a pixel map, you could build up vectorized outlines
(as you do have knowledge of geometry types upon intersection) and
use that instead |
| 21:51.17 |
pcman |
I can find
information on each geometry the ray hits? |
| 21:51.28 |
brlcad |
yep, that's
the easiest part ;) |
| 21:51.50 |
brlcad |
that's
basically what all of the rt* apps do |
| 21:52.15 |
pcman |
I will study
it. thanks |
| 21:52.34 |
brlcad |
src/rt/viewedge.c contains the guts to
rtedge in the source code |
| 21:52.56 |
brlcad |
primitive
geometry are all implemented in src/librt/g_*.c |
| 21:53.08 |
pcman |
thank you
very much. |
| 21:53.11 |
brlcad |
*ideally*, to
get what you need.. |
| 21:54.17 |
pcman |
all of these
are under the LGPL licensed parts? |
| 21:54.20 |
brlcad |
you'd
probably modify the primitives to provide a projected 2D
representation or even just a BREP form of themselves .. you'd then
apply any CSG transformations to the BREP forms and project that
onto 2D |
| 21:54.42 |
brlcad |
all of
BRL-CAD's code, even the binaries, are now LGPL |
| 21:55.11 |
brlcad |
basically all
LGPL and BSD code (the build system, benchmark suite, and some
helper scripts are BSD licensed) now |
| 21:55.33 |
brlcad |
that
announcement is going to be made with the next 7.10 release next
week |
| 21:55.39 |
brlcad |
though the
changes are already in CVS |
| 21:55.52 |
pcman |
great |
| 21:56.12 |
pcman |
regarding
your last advice |
| 21:56.29 |
brlcad |
documentation
changes from a dual-licensed GPL/GFDL to a variant of the BSD
license as well |
| 21:57.15 |
brlcad |
the last
advice is the more involved, but not intractable .. and something
others would likely contribute to and help with |
| 21:57.15 |
pcman |
BSD is ok for
comercial apps? |
| 21:57.34 |
brlcad |
heh, BSD is
one of the least restrictive |
| 21:58.07 |
brlcad |
all BSD
basically says is that you can't claim authorship on the parts you
didn't write, otherwise you can do pretty much *anything* with the
code (even sell it) |
| 21:58.53 |
brlcad |
doesn't even
require return of modifications like the LGPL, though any mods
would be appreciated |
| 21:59.08 |
pcman |
great. |
| 21:59.41 |
pcman |
If we will
choose BRL-CAD we will contibute |
| 22:00.45 |
brlcad |
glad to hear
it |
| 22:01.14 |
brlcad |
that's one of
the great aspects of being open source -- if it doesn't do what you
want, you're welcome to make the changes to get it doing what you
need |
| 22:01.52 |
pcman |
I have one
more concern regarding model size |
| 22:02.13 |
brlcad |
there's a
couple decades and a couple hundred overall man-years of effort
invested as it is, so you get a nice leg up from otherwise starting
from scratch |
| 22:03.07 |
brlcad |
BRL-CAD's
support for large models actually exceeds most of the commercial
packages -- predominantly limited by your construction approach and
hardware specifications (how much memory do you have sort of
limits) |
| 22:03.31 |
pcman |
yes.
especially I will never get the budget to invest several years in
dev. without results |
| 22:04.27 |
pcman |
I have around
300,000 solid objects (not complex whan comparing to
mechanical) |
| 22:05.11 |
brlcad |
when you say
"solid objects" what do you mean? primitive euclidean geometry or
are those "parts" in themselves or something else? |
| 22:05.45 |
brlcad |
sounds like
some simple "parts" if I'm reading you right |
| 22:06.17 |
pcman |
I call an
object for example the brep body representation of a steel beam
(with cuts, holes...) |
| 22:06.19 |
brlcad |
like nuts and
bolts, hinges, latches, doors, etc |
| 22:06.28 |
brlcad |
yeah,
okay |
| 22:06.28 |
pcman |
yes |
| 22:07.22 |
pcman |
I don't know
many things about CSG so I am wondering if it's good to model a
building with it |
| 22:08.00 |
brlcad |
it's
definitely a different approach in general than you have with
traditional BREP feature-based modeling |
| 22:08.28 |
pcman |
maybe it's
too accurate for me and I loose speed |
| 22:08.51 |
brlcad |
speed is one
of the benefits actually, and compactness of the
representation |
| 22:09.27 |
brlcad |
CSG with
primitives is about an order of magnitude smaller than spline
surfaced BREPs which in itself is about an order smaller than
facetized BREP |
| 22:09.53 |
brlcad |
the downside
is really the modeling approach that it requires, it's more
mathematically rigorous |
| 22:11.10 |
brlcad |
both are
solid modeling approaches, so you get the same guarantees on
topology and valid representations .. but the modeling interface
for how you go about associating things is radically
different |
| 22:12.03 |
brlcad |
as a modeling
interface, brl-cad's mged modeler leaves much to be desired -- if
you specifically need a solid modeling user tool, you'll probably
still end up writing your own interface or at least customize mged
for your purposes if you went with brl-cad |
| 22:12.18 |
brlcad |
that's
changing with new interfaces being developed, but we're not there
yet |
| 22:12.38 |
brlcad |
the
underlying representation, and api for creating/manipulating
geometry is where there's a main benefit |
| 22:12.54 |
pcman |
this is OK in
my case. I only want to use the modeler component. |
| 22:13.32 |
pcman |
in fact
replace the current moder |
| 22:14.45 |
pcman |
currently I
persist in the model only parameters and I create (and cache)
facetized bodies for display and algortithms |
| 22:15.47 |
pcman |
With CSG
probably the approach should be different. |
| 22:16.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 22:16.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: the
script to M-x indent-regions now already exists (indent.sh). just
need to |
| 22:16.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: run
the script on various directories one at a time while making
sure |
| 22:16.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
indentation isn't confused by replicated braces in preprocessor
wrappings |
| 22:16.28 |
brlcad |
you could
actually do something similar still |
| 22:17.45 |
brlcad |
brl-cad has
an 'intermediate modeler' interface called archer that sort of does
something very similar -- it has a concept of storing models in
implicit CSG form as well as parameterized to some known template
type (e.g. this is a "tank" with a turret this long and this many
wheels) .. with facetized versions stashed for opengl
display |
| 22:19.22 |
pcman |
interesting.
It's different then mged? I thought it's only another
GUI |
| 22:20.41 |
brlcad |
it is mostly
a different gui, wraps what's under mged's hood in different ways,
stores things somewhat differently in the .g geometry
files |
| 22:21.27 |
brlcad |
mention it
not as something to use (though you certainly can) but as an
example of something that performs a somewhat similar
task |
| 22:22.41 |
pcman |
Thank you
very much. I will study CSG and BRL-CAD and come back other
day. |
| 22:23.15 |
brlcad |
pcman: sounds
good -- if you have any questions, I'm usually here as are several
others that should be able to answer questions |
| 22:23.35 |
brlcad |
the
tutorials/guides on the website cover most of the basic approach
and design limitations |
| 22:23.44 |
pcman |
thank you
very much. |
| 22:24.11 |
pcman |
There is
available sample code for windows? |
| 22:24.22 |
``Erik |
yeah, I'm
pretty retarded when it comes to modelling, but those guides were
'nuff to get me able to test my code mods, heh |
| 22:24.24 |
brlcad |
HACKING file
in the source distribution if you're interested in becoming part of
the actual dev team (it's an open dev environment) |
| 22:24.59 |
brlcad |
pcman: most
of brl-cad's code, sample or otherwise, works under
windows |
| 22:25.25 |
brlcad |
there's
studio build files in misc/ .. two different projects with
different purposes |
| 22:25.32 |
brlcad |
example code
spread throughout the package |
| 22:25.53 |
brlcad |
simple intro
on the website: http://brlcad.org/example_app.php |
| 22:26.01 |
brlcad |
as well as
doxygen docs on the website too |
| 22:27.12 |
pcman |
thank
you |
| 22:27.38 |
``Erik |
speaking of
doxygen; adrt has some doxygen markup, but it's not getting on the
webpage... is it ignored on purpose, or is something slipping
through the cracks? |
| 22:28.54 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
probably because there's no group for that code listed in
misc/doxygen_structure to key on, nothing in misc/Doxyfile that
says exclude it |
| 22:29.35 |
brlcad |
some of the
doxygen markup was just me or justin adding a standard header with
a @file section |
| 22:30.22 |
``Erik |
there's some
function info in there, too |
| 22:30.35 |
``Erik |
and structs
*shrug* |
| 22:31.10 |
brlcad |
still,
probably just because there's no group for it in the
doxygen_struture file |
| 22:31.37 |
``Erik |
and try to
get some emacs fu, too... heh |
| 22:33.10 |
brlcad |
emacs
fu? |
| 22:33.21 |
brlcad |
could it be
possible? |
| 22:33.25 |
brlcad |
is erik
seeing the light?? |
| 22:33.36 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 22:34.10 |
``Erik |
... 'slime'
interests me. |
| 22:34.26 |
dtidrow_work |
ouch |
| 22:34.51 |
``Erik |
and I'm
always willing to learn new things *shrug* I tried ten years ago,
before I tried vi |
| 22:35.32 |
``Erik |
and it just
struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... vi was
clean and efficient by comparison *shrug* :) maybe this time
around, it'll be a little more interesting to me |
| 22:37.28 |
brlcad |
yeah, like
"calculus struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with...
basic addition and subtraction was clean and efficient by
comparison" |
| 22:37.46 |
``Erik |
heh, not
exactly the same comparison :) |
| 22:37.52 |
brlcad |
close
:) |
| 22:38.00 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 22:38.10 |
``Erik |
I d'no, vim
isn't exactly a slacker editor... |
| 22:38.21 |
``Erik |
now if I were
saying 'pico' or 'nano', then yeah, you'd have a valid
point... |
| 22:38.22 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 22:38.31 |
dtidrow_work |
more gasoline
on the vi/emacs flamewar.... :-) |
| 22:38.33 |
brlcad |
never implied
that.. heck you can build an entire computer out of a basic ALU
;) |
| 22:38.54 |
``Erik |
and if I
started jabbering about needing a decent gui ide, I'd hope someone
would smack some sense into me |
| 22:39.16 |
dtidrow_work |
emacs - the
original IDE :-) |
| 22:39.27 |
dtidrow_work |
and windowing
system... |
| 22:40.30 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/images/twinstar_complete.jpg |
| 22:40.55 |
Twingy |
twice the
finger chopping fun! |
| 22:41.00 |
Twingy |
:D |
| 22:41.39 |
Twingy |
at least you
didn't lose your middle finger |
| 22:42.11 |
Twingy |
that little
parts box is awesome |
| 22:42.17 |
Twingy |
found it at
lowes for $15 |
| 22:43.02 |
brlcad |
shouldn't
that fuel resovoir be on the other side to balance it out?
:) |
| 22:43.04 |
Twingy |
triton
charger along with banana to banana, banana to deans, deans to
j-type, banana to alligator, and deans to dc all fit up top with
the triton charger |
| 22:43.06 |
``Erik |
the field box
isn't sufficient? |
| 22:43.13 |
Twingy |
heck
no |
| 22:43.36 |
brlcad |
could use a
new paint job |
| 22:43.45 |
brlcad |
the Justin
2000 |
| 22:43.54 |
``Erik |
'fuel
resevoir'? are we lookin' at the same pic? |
| 22:43.58 |
Twingy |
I haven't put
any decals in |
| 22:44.05 |
Twingy |
I think
brlcad went to goatse.cx |
| 22:44.15 |
``Erik |
mebbe
lemonparty or hai2u |
| 22:44.21 |
bjorkBSD |
heheh |
| 22:44.35 |
brlcad |
whatever is
got some sort of line into the engine on the left |
| 22:44.44 |
``Erik |
that's the
muffler |
| 22:44.54 |
brlcad |
so then
that |
| 22:45.03 |
Twingy |
that weighs
like 50 grams |
| 22:45.09 |
Twingy |
if
that |
| 22:45.20 |
brlcad |
it wasn't for
practical/weight reasons.. visual asthetic balance :P |
| 22:45.25 |
Twingy |
ah |
| 22:45.27 |
Twingy |
pfft |
| 22:45.28 |
``Erik |
int he air,
ya wouldn't notice |
| 22:45.41 |
``Erik |
if visual
asthetic is important, get a ducted fan *shrug* :) |
| 22:45.49 |
brlcad |
i would..
it'd annoy me all the way to the ground as I repeatedly crashed it
by mistake |
| 22:45.49 |
``Erik |
aesthetic |
| 22:46.02 |
Twingy |
so the front
nose area can house all of the electronics for my rocket as a
testing platform, this plane has about 1.3:1 lift to weight
ratio |
| 22:46.22 |
``Erik |
those're
.25's or .40's? |
| 22:46.28 |
Twingy |
0.25
FX's |
| 22:46.38 |
Twingy |
FX == 18k
rpm, regular == 15k rpm |
| 22:46.43 |
``Erik |
not the ones
with bearings, though |
| 22:46.48 |
Twingy |
0.46 == 1.2
HP, (2) 0.25 FX = 1.85 HP |
| 22:47.23 |
Twingy |
this will do
50-55 mph level |
| 22:47.39 |
Twingy |
my last plane
(the demon plane) did 40-45 mph level |
| 22:47.42 |
``Erik |
how heavy is
the rocket electronics payload? would it be better to dump those at
the cg? |
| 22:47.51 |
Twingy |
tiny and
light |
| 22:47.55 |
Twingy |
100 grams
maybe |
| 22:47.56 |
``Erik |
or just run
the battery further back? |
| 22:48.08 |
``Erik |
ok, like a
watch battery? or a single AAA? |
| 22:48.24 |
Twingy |
I have a
nicad pack that consts of 4 AAA batteries @ 7.2V |
| 22:48.55 |
``Erik |
also; is the
plane vibration going to be different from rocket vibration?
remebering the x10 camera... |
| 22:48.56 |
Twingy |
smaller than
AAA's iirc |
| 22:49.11 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 22:49.21 |
Twingy |
that's not
going to do anything |
| 22:49.47 |
``Erik |
<-- looks
forward to hearing about the telementry data :D |
| 22:50.09 |
Twingy |
haven't built
the new circuit (or rocket) yet |
| 22:50.28 |
Twingy |
this plane
will likely get flown once or twice then get grounded while new
rocket is under construction |
| 22:51.37 |
``Erik |
one of these
days, I'll finish that ultrasport 40 |
| 22:51.49 |
bjorkBSD |
why don't you
build something you can fly in? |
| 22:52.31 |
``Erik |
bjork: that'd
be really expensive... not just in parts, but in certification as
well... |
| 22:52.32 |
Twingy |
it'd be alot
cheaper to just buy a phillipino kid to start your plane for
you |
| 22:52.45 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 22:53.07 |
Twingy |
they used to
be rampant on ebay... |
| 22:53.54 |
Twingy |
"Look boss
Zee plane boss, Zee plane!" |
| 22:53.54 |
``Erik |
looks like it
quit snowing |
| 22:54.25 |
``Erik |
locked cage
in the back of the cave? :) |
| 22:54.35 |
Twingy |
2400 sq ft
house, and I spend 80% of my time awake in a 6x10 room |
| 22:54.45 |
bjorkBSD |
certification? parts? |
| 22:54.54 |
bjorkBSD |
you don't
need either for a paramotor or an ultralight! |
| 22:55.09 |
Twingy |
bjorkBSD, you
couldn't fly those here, it's too developed |
| 22:55.16 |
bjorkBSD |
where's
'here'? |
| 22:55.21 |
``Erik |
ultralights
have pretty strict guidelines on altitude, weight, horse power,
etc... |
| 22:55.29 |
``Erik |
baltimore |
| 22:55.44 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah it's
still ME flying vs squinting at a fly |
| 22:55.45 |
``Erik |
in the city,
the gang bangers would shoot at you... away from the city, the
rednecks would shoot at you... |
| 22:55.47 |
bjorkBSD |
ah. |
| 22:55.51 |
bjorkBSD |
hehehe |
| 22:55.57 |
bjorkBSD |
i live in
f'vlle, AR |
| 22:56.15 |
``Erik |
I would've
guessed kansas city |
| 22:56.16 |
bjorkBSD |
there's
plenny of country to go around. |
| 22:56.16 |
Twingy |
so you'd have
rednecks shooting at you |
| 22:56.26 |
bjorkBSD |
no. worse.
hill billys! |
| 22:56.33 |
bjorkBSD |
'cause you'll
be close enough to their homes. |
| 22:56.37 |
``Erik |
<-- used
to live in springfield, missoura |
| 22:57.34 |
``Erik |
hillbillies
are amusing :) |
| 22:57.51 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah. they go
hun'n for 'coons a lot. |
| 22:57.59 |
bjorkBSD |
and they're
liable to miss every now and then. |
| 22:58.21 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 22:58.29 |
Twingy |
once I get
gerber junk in gcam I'll make the boards |
| 22:58.42 |
``Erik |
twingy: for
your interesting stuff, are you using an OS (like centos or qnx or
something), or coding on the metal? |
| 22:59.28 |
Twingy |
I have alot
of interesting stuff, is this work or home related? |
| 22:59.32 |
bjorkBSD |
'interesting
stuff'? |
| 23:00.39 |
``Erik |
(also; sorry
to poop on the party, but if I understand correct... tie_push()
takes a blind pointer that you can associate to anything and
retrieve in the hit function?) |
| 23:00.43 |
``Erik |
work... are
you actually coding embedded stuff (other than pic) at home? heh
:) |
| 23:01.15 |
Twingy |
a pointer to
an array of pointers with a stride, the stride is the index to each
pointer |
| 23:01.22 |
Twingy |
typically 4
for 32-bit, 8 for 64-bit |
| 23:01.54 |
``Erik |
ok, is that
per triangle, or is that a set associated with each
triangle? |
| 23:02.45 |
Twingy |
per
triangle |
| 23:02.56 |
Twingy |
feel tree to
make a version more apropos to your application |
| 23:03.04 |
``Erik |
(or if you'd
rather, where's the best place to start reading code to figure it
out... I'm trying to build something akin to a greatly simplified
librt partition list) |
| 23:03.43 |
Twingy |
well, the one
day you looked at libtie and said all this pointer junk is
obfuscated I started adding comments galore |
| 23:03.53 |
Twingy |
there should
be almost 1:1 ratio between comments and code |
| 23:04.09 |
``Erik |
heh, I've
already been changing conventions to make it feel more 'normal' to
me... all the defined symbols got changed to uppercase, for example
:) I'm operating under the notion that you don't give a rats ass
anymore and rf will supercede it |
| 23:04.38 |
``Erik |
but I'm on
the hook to prove that rf meets or misses the arbitrary 5x
factor |
| 23:04.44 |
Twingy |
it's there as
an off the shelf 'thing' for you to take and twist/warp to your
application |
| 23:05.26 |
Twingy |
it's so small
that it's really easy to go in and change the API all
around |
| 23:06.09 |
``Erik |
ok, other
stupid question; tie_work() processes just to the next hit? so to
shoot all the way through, I'd have to keep calling it until it
says it missed? |
| 23:06.46 |
Twingy |
the hit
callback you pass to tie_work continues to get called until it
returns something non-NULL |
| 23:06.56 |
``Erik |
ah,
'k |
| 23:07.00 |
Twingy |
very
inefficient |
| 23:07.09 |
``Erik |
thanks :)
hopefully you'll never hear about libtie again :D |
| 23:07.19 |
Twingy |
but brl-cad
style and what was suggested to be at the time of
implementation |
| 23:07.28 |
Twingy |
I don't mind
either way |
| 23:08.02 |
``Erik |
(doncha hate
when people in mgmt roles make technical decisions? they're never
the right ones...) |
| 23:08.03 |
Twingy |
I'm not into
annexing myself from previous work, I just can't spend all of my
time on it anymore |
| 23:08.20 |
Twingy |
why do you
think I left? |
| 23:08.40 |
bjorkBSD |
the plane had
to be built! |
| 23:08.42 |
Twingy |
I'm honestly
surprised more people haven't left yet |
| 23:08.42 |
brlcad |
not enough
cheese poofs |
| 23:08.43 |
bjorkBSD |
j/k
:P |
| 23:09.11 |
Twingy |
I don't even
like visiting that building any more cause of the anxiety it gives
me |
| 23:09.18 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:09.21 |
Twingy |
comparatively
speaking |
| 23:09.25 |
Twingy |
i didn't
realize it until I left |
| 23:09.31 |
Twingy |
and then a
month later I came back |
| 23:09.40 |
Twingy |
and just felt
like a wave of stress |
| 23:09.42 |
``Erik |
you still
need to give a subset of coworkers a tour of your new digs
:D |
| 23:09.55 |
bjorkBSD |
wait, is
brlcad a secret project to turn aliens into fish? :( |
| 23:09.59 |
Twingy |
wendy and I
set something up before christmas, but she canceled it |
| 23:10.10 |
``Erik |
have ya
talked to bob or paul lately? :D |
| 23:10.16 |
Twingy |
I haven't
heard anything since |
| 23:10.51 |
Twingy |
lately? no, I
probably won't interface with them ever again since we are in
completely different lines of work now |
| 23:11.12 |
``Erik |
if the
opportunity arose, I'd just go check it out, I'm done asking for
wendys permission or input |
| 23:11.58 |
Twingy |
well, I can
tell you that if you stay there for another year things will
probably be different, if you can't last that long then I'd suggest
moving somewhere else |
| 23:13.10 |
``Erik |
heh, I keep
getting requests from google and yahoo, and I'm half interested in
doing the 'start a company' thing again. Of course, if I did that
route, I'd find someone to play the sales/marketing/business side,
I HATED that and was not good at it |
| 23:13.43 |
``Erik |
sucked 'nuff
that I just quit once I hit the break-even point |
| 23:13.50 |
``Erik |
and went and
got a 'real' job |
| 23:14.53 |
Twingy |
the sig
rascal is a nice plane too |
| 23:15.03 |
Twingy |
if I had the
money I might buy that |
| 23:15.35 |
``Erik |
that's a
bigger one |
| 23:15.59 |
Twingy |
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCXT9&P=0 |
| 23:16.02 |
``Erik |
damn,
$400 |
| 23:16.23 |
Twingy |
but that
would fly so smooth |
| 23:16.30 |
Twingy |
even in light
winds |
| 23:17.09 |
``Erik |
nothing on
the site about lift ratio |
| 23:17.16 |
Twingy |
I will
probably build my next plane on my cnc mill out of foam and
balsa |
| 23:17.28 |
Twingy |
the rascal
would be a fun fly |
| 23:17.30 |
``Erik |
using someone
elses plans? or a complete new work? |
| 23:17.40 |
bjorkBSD |
you have a
mil? |
| 23:17.48 |
Twingy |
a
continuation of something I started after I switched
over |
| 23:17.52 |
bjorkBSD |
*mill. |
| 23:18.01 |
Twingy |
bjorkBSD,
http://gcam.js.cx |
| 23:18.08 |
louipc |
!! you have a
CNC mill!? |
| 23:18.15 |
louipc |
*envy* |
| 23:18.16 |
``Erik |
<-- always
thought it'd be fun to design an r/c plane |
| 23:18.44 |
bjorkBSD |
oh
shit! |
| 23:18.47 |
Twingy |
well, brian
and I might design a larger cnc mill in our spare time using the
taig |
| 23:18.50 |
bjorkBSD |
i just got a
<bleep> |
| 23:18.52 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.04 |
bjorkBSD |
oh you have a
TAIG! ohhh |
| 23:19.11 |
bjorkBSD |
that's not
terribly cheap. |
| 23:19.13 |
louipc |
what's a
taig? |
| 23:19.19 |
bjorkBSD |
but you can
buy it in bits. |
| 23:19.31 |
bjorkBSD |
it's a
micro-mill/lathe maker. |
| 23:19.35 |
bjorkBSD |
do you have a
lathe as well? |
| 23:19.42 |
Twingy |
I had one,
but I gave it away |
| 23:19.56 |
Twingy |
I am going to
buy a real one at some point |
| 23:19.59 |
bjorkBSD |
funny. i
don't see a lathe on my table :| |
| 23:20.00 |
louipc |
ooh they look
like conventional machines fitted with power feed har |
| 23:20.02 |
Twingy |
I don't need
one at the moment |
| 23:20.08 |
bjorkBSD |
really?! |
| 23:20.09 |
Twingy |
I have one at
work |
| 23:20.12 |
bjorkBSD |
oh! |
| 23:20.16 |
louipc |
and I guess
numeric control of course |
| 23:20.17 |
bjorkBSD |
ah. but of
course. |
| 23:21.03 |
brlcad |
Twingy: seem
to be doing well in Italy :) |
| 23:21.06 |
Twingy |
best $1800 I
ever spent |
| 23:21.21 |
Twingy |
brlcad, yea,
what's all that about? |
| 23:21.36 |
brlcad |
dunno, but
sounds like a road trip! |
| 23:21.49 |
Twingy |
boat
trip? |
| 23:21.57 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 23:22.02 |
Twingy |
or did you
imply I should cnc mill a water proof car? |
| 23:22.13 |
brlcad |
a
submarine |
| 23:22.15 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 23:22.15 |
brlcad |
a yellow
one |
| 23:22.23 |
Twingy |
hrm, that
might take a while :) |
| 23:22.33 |
Twingy |
it'd be about
10,000 parts |
| 23:22.33 |
``Erik |
(someone
hittin' the happy juice this evening?) |
| 23:22.35 |
brlcad |
build it ..
"in bits" :) |
| 23:22.45 |
louipc |
you need a
mini welder too |
| 23:22.45 |
bjorkBSD |
damn. i want
a workshop very very badly. |
| 23:23.18 |
Twingy |
I haven't
tried my new aluminum casting setup yet |
| 23:23.19 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:23.24 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah i can
buy one at harborfreight for relatively little. |
| 23:23.31 |
Twingy |
I have some
granite slabs and a jig with a metal trashcan filled with 250lbs of
sand |
| 23:23.31 |
bjorkBSD |
but their
lathes/mills are POSs |
| 23:23.52 |
bjorkBSD |
ah you're a
metal worker and you have a forge and stuff? |
| 23:24.04 |
Twingy |
if you call
melting aluminum metal working |
| 23:24.07 |
Twingy |
then
yes |
| 23:24.11 |
bjorkBSD |
heheh |
| 23:24.24 |
bjorkBSD |
hmmm. |
| 23:24.25 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/ |
| 23:24.40 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_aluminum2.jpg |
| 23:25.06 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_block1.jpg |
| 23:25.12 |
Twingy |
that's what I
do with soda cans |
| 23:25.14 |
brlcad |
that's a lot
of cans |
| 23:25.20 |
Twingy |
and 6061
scrap |
| 23:25.26 |
brlcad |
ahh, cheated
;) |
| 23:25.36 |
Twingy |
I add 1%
zinc |
| 23:25.50 |
bjorkBSD |
it sits on a
table! |
| 23:25.50 |
brlcad |
for that
silky smooth feeling? |
| 23:25.54 |
bjorkBSD |
i can have
one in my kitchen :-? |
| 23:26.14 |
Twingy |
I can sell
those blocks for $15 - $20 |
| 23:26.26 |
brlcad |
heh, you're
asking the guy that sets off rockets that are just a couple screws
short of being a pipe bomb.. ;) |
| 23:26.28 |
louipc |
you machined
that whole block with that tiny cutter? haha |
| 23:26.32 |
``Erik |
what's the
fuel cost to make one? :D |
| 23:26.45 |
Twingy |
louipc,
yep |
| 23:26.51 |
``Erik |
propane high
output burner, right? so a tank is pretty cheap? |
| 23:26.53 |
Twingy |
``Erik, $3 in
propane |
| 23:27.04 |
``Erik |
coo' |
| 23:27.13 |
Twingy |
1 tank does
about 8 castings |
| 23:27.22 |
louipc |
you need to
get a facemill methinks |
| 23:27.22 |
brlcad |
mm..
tanks |
| 23:27.48 |
louipc |
that's pretty
cool though |
| 23:27.57 |
bjorkBSD |
so Twingy,
have you built a tesla coil lately? :D |
| 23:28.07 |
Twingy |
no, just a
coil gun :) |
| 23:28.16 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.28 |
bjorkBSD |
what made you
wanna build a forge? |
| 23:28.51 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/tmp/ |
| 23:29.24 |
Twingy |
that was my
first |
| 23:29.52 |
Twingy |
that charging
circuit was a kodak disposable camera |
| 23:32.06 |
Twingy |
hehe |
| 23:32.08 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/tmp/rocket1.png |
| 23:32.11 |
Twingy |
priceless |
| 23:33.09 |
bjorkBSD |
what's
nurbana? |
| 23:33.14 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 23:33.38 |
Twingy |
it's nothing
more than a memory :) |
| 23:35.10 |
brlcad |
it was the
next "rhino", left to rot after lack of feed .. and then carved up
for it's meat on the open market, right? ;) |
| 23:35.41 |
Twingy |
that pretty
much sums it up |
| 23:35.44 |
bjorkBSD |
heheh. |
| 23:35.51 |
bjorkBSD |
what's wrong
with brlCad twingy? |
| 23:35.59 |
bjorkBSD |
it's like
rhino. only ... umm. |
| 23:36.13 |
Twingy |
I didn't know
about brl-cad in 1999 |
| 23:36.22 |
bjorkBSD |
that was a
long long time ago. |
| 23:36.31 |
``Erik |
also; brl-cad
isn't exactly rocking at nurbs... |
| 23:36.39 |
brlcad |
nor was it as
readily open to use like it is today |
| 23:36.39 |
bjorkBSD |
no? |
| 23:37.03 |
brlcad |
there's nurbs
support, pretty extensive, but incomplete and slow |
| 23:37.06 |
bjorkBSD |
hmm it still
makes people flee in horror on first contact |
| 23:37.21 |
brlcad |
that's a lot
of the work going on this year.. to totally reimplement the nurbs
support (hence all the opennurbs stuff) |
| 23:37.44 |
brlcad |
yeah, mged is
a major wart |
| 23:38.04 |
brlcad |
one that can
actually cure cancer, but a wart nonetheless |
| 23:38.25 |
``Erik |
thermonuclear
masochism device? |
| 23:39.31 |
dtidrow_work |
lol |
| 23:44.26 |
Twingy |
I still
vividly remember the day when Lisa announced that Wendy got the
branch chief position and everyone frowned at once,
haha |
| 23:44.40 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 23:46.07 |
bjorkBSD |
damn |
| 23:46.11 |
bjorkBSD |
how do i get
out of jove? :( |
| 23:46.17 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:46.18 |
brlcad |
hah |
| 23:46.19 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:46.28 |
bjorkBSD |
i didn't even
know it was here until you mentioned it. |
| 23:46.28 |
``Erik |
jove--,
vi++ |
| 23:46.40 |
brlcad |
that's the
"trick" .. they've been stuck in jove for 20+years ;) |
| 23:47.06 |
brlcad |
try ctrl-x-c
or ctrl-x ctrl-c |
| 23:47.11 |
``Erik |
(seriosuly,
the "search for a real editor; is emacs found? no? build jove" shit
is uncool) :D |
| 23:47.35 |
dtidrow_work |
Twingy: some
things you could build with that mill of yours: http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/photo2.htm |
| 23:47.41 |
Twingy |
if jove00,
and vi++, then nano^=1 ? |
| 23:48.03 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 23:48.10 |
Twingy |
I have a
stirling and a steam engine on my lifes todo list |
| 23:48.24 |
``Erik |
what kind of
steam engine? |
| 23:48.32 |
``Erik |
ece
reciprocal? |
| 23:48.41 |
dtidrow_work |
I've been to
their expo, back when it and I were both still in
Michigan |
| 23:48.42 |
bjorkBSD |
i want a
machine shop :( |
| 23:48.54 |
bjorkBSD |
impossible! |
| 23:48.57 |
bjorkBSD |
are you
talking about a kettle? |
| 23:49.03 |
``Erik |
teh sterling
engine out of soda cans was cool |
| 23:49.12 |
brlcad |
nope, it's a
real steam engine.. a small one, but real |
| 23:49.19 |
bjorkBSD |
wow! how'd
you get it? |
| 23:49.36 |
brlcad |
long time ago
as a kid |
| 23:49.45 |
brlcad |
hobby shop
had one iirc |
| 23:49.58 |
``Erik |
functional
steam engine... |
| 23:50.22 |
dtidrow_work |
they run off
compressed air, too |
| 23:50.47 |
brlcad |
a little bit
like this, but actually a little smaller and with front wheels too
;) http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/01-20L.jpg |
| 23:50.58 |
``Erik |
anything with
a pressure differential, actually |
| 23:51.21 |
``Erik |
steam
involves a state change, so there's a huge pressure differential
from a fairly minor temperature change |
| 23:51.28 |
``Erik |
weee,
thermo |
| 23:53.34 |
brlcad |
here we go:
http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/wid365big.jpg |
| 23:53.43 |
brlcad |
i thought
about making a cad model of that at one point |
| 23:53.59 |
brlcad |
didn't want
to take it apart though.. |
| 23:56.08 |
brlcad |
good stuff:
http://www.toysteam.net/ |
| 23:56.08 |
brlcad |
heh, this
would be cool to mill Twingy: http://www.neatstuff.net/space-robots/Steambot-ST-II.html |
| 23:56.42 |
brlcad |
"please feed
me water.. *mauuuuwww*" |
| 23:58.15 |
``Erik |
ah, a steam
tractor, even |
| 23:58.31 |
``Erik |
the one I saw
at the exchange was a stnading engine, not a tractor :) just a
boiler and piston |
| 23:58.54 |
brlcad |
they have one
of those too |
| 23:59.02 |
brlcad |
the
locomotive is more interesting |
| 23:59.43 |
``Erik |
8?
hah |
| 23:59.47 |
``Erik |
might as well
be using a single core |
| 23:59.48 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 00:02.39 |
Maloeran |
Eh, it will
come handy to test and improve scalability, play with global
illumination, SURVICE's fire simulations, AI |
| 00:03.45 |
``Erik |
heh, the 2048
machien is useless |
| 00:04.01 |
Maloeran |
How
so? |
| 00:04.01 |
bjorkBSD |
Maloeran, do
you work for SURVICE? |
| 00:04.03 |
``Erik |
the 16 core
machine is useless, the best I have that's useful is 12 |
| 00:04.16 |
Maloeran |
As a
consultant, bjorkBSD |
| 00:04.34 |
bjorkBSD |
cool! is
their version of brl-cad different? |
| 00:04.35 |
Maloeran |
How are they
useless, it requires paperwork to get to use them? |
| 00:05.00 |
``Erik |
the 2048
machine has a cummulative load of more than 2000 |
| 00:05.08 |
``Erik |
the 16 core
machine has a load of more than 20. |
| 00:05.18 |
``Erik |
the 12 core
machine has a load of like .2 |
| 00:05.19 |
Maloeran |
They are
developing software built on top of BRL-CAD, such as Archer, I
wouldn't know if their "version" is "different".. |
| 00:05.26 |
brlcad |
their version
is not different, they just print up everything onto CD and create
hard-copy user manuals as if you'd bought a boxed copy |
| 00:06.09 |
Maloeran |
Nice Erik,
that's what you get for using shared hardware |
| 00:06.11 |
brlcad |
they also
provide pre-compiled binaries and perform their own testing
(including for windows, for example) |
| 00:06.18 |
bjorkBSD |
oh. |
| 00:06.39 |
Maloeran |
I'll get some
AMD's Barcelone chips when they come out too, if you want an
account on my home mini-cluster :) |
| 00:06.44 |
``Erik |
(many
uneducated users look at a machines ability as a simple number of
cpu's... they dont' subtract load from that... they don't
understand the real difference between arch, os, clocks,
etc) |
| 00:07.08 |
bjorkBSD |
that's
non-marketing speak, erik! |
| 00:07.09 |
``Erik |
obviously;
the 8 cpu irix box is faster than the 1 processor linux box.
because 8>1 |
| 00:07.29 |
``Erik |
n/m that the
irix box has 150mhz r10k's and the linux box has a
3.6ghz |
| 00:07.47 |
bjorkBSD |
how much is
the 8cpu irix box? |
| 00:07.58 |
``Erik |
oh, and the
irix box has a load of 15, and the linux box has 0.00 |
| 00:08.02 |
bjorkBSD |
$98,000.00
without a keyboard, monitor, or mouse. |
| 00:08.23 |
``Erik |
keyboards,
monitors, and mice are not for machines that do real
work. |
| 00:08.28 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.44 |
``Erik |
you sit at a
pretty graphical machine, maybe it can play videos and look at web
pages |
| 00:08.52 |
``Erik |
but crunch
happens on machines in another room, mebbe another
building |
| 00:09.59 |
bjorkBSD |
so how much
does the 8 thing cost? |
| 00:10.37 |
Maloeran |
It's 3k$ for
a nice Xeon Clovertown 8 cores, if you would prefer
that |
| 00:11.07 |
``Erik |
clovertown is
a dual core die? |
| 00:11.13 |
``Erik |
4x2
? |
| 00:11.31 |
Maloeran |
4 cores on a
die, the latest Intel chip |
| 00:11.36 |
``Erik |
ah,
2x4 |
| 00:11.44 |
Maloeran |
They don't
produce motherboards with 4 sockets unfortunately |
| 00:12.05 |
Maloeran |
But their
memory bus wouldn't support that anyway, I think it's already going
to be saturated with 8 cores |
| 00:12.16 |
dtidrow_work |
when is the
quad-core Opterons coming out? |
| 00:12.21 |
``Erik |
I think the
opteron machien I'm working on these days is 4 seperate sockets...
might be 2x2... twingy spec'd it, monarch built it, I just do os
shit |
| 00:12.29 |
Maloeran |
Second
quarter of 2007, they said |
| 00:12.57 |
dtidrow_work |
and I know
they have quad-socket opteron mobos.... |
| 00:12.57 |
brlcad |
where altix
shines is that you can go up to 512 processors in a single image..
that is .. very cool |
| 00:13.08 |
dtidrow_work |
yep |
| 00:13.11 |
Maloeran |
They have 8
sockets opteron motherboards actually |
| 00:13.12 |
brlcad |
no matter
what the price, that's the top of the line |
| 00:13.31 |
dtidrow_work |
well, I've
seen the four-socket ones |
| 00:13.36 |
brlcad |
with the
price, it's quite expensive compared to a cluster based
solution |
| 00:13.49 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, I
really wonder how that single huge memory bank can cope with the
ever growing number of cores |
| 00:13.59 |
Maloeran |
AMD's NUMA is
a simple and elegant solution |
| 00:14.10 |
brlcad |
licensed from
sgi :) |
| 00:14.12 |
dtidrow_work |
Altix is
NUMA |
| 00:14.20 |
Maloeran |
Altix is NUMA
as well? Oh. |
| 00:14.22 |
``Erik |
is it
numa? |
| 00:14.26 |
``Erik |
altix is
numa, yes |
| 00:14.27 |
brlcad |
it came from
them |
| 00:14.29 |
dtidrow_work |
SGI has had
NUMA systems for a decade now |
| 00:14.32 |
``Erik |
with big
honkin' cables out the butt |
| 00:14.36 |
Maloeran |
Neat |
| 00:14.43 |
``Erik |
almost as big
as my forearm (I have narrow bones) |
| 00:14.47 |
brlcad |
which in turn
came from an earlier craylink variant when sgi acquired
cray |
| 00:14.54 |
dtidrow_work |
the Onyx2's
were NUMA |
| 00:16.15 |
brlcad |
they've got
it scaling nearly linearly up towards 512 processors.. but then
I've read they've not been able to scale linearly much past
that |
| 00:16.39 |
dtidrow_work |
I wonder
why |
| 00:16.39 |
brlcad |
course that
in itself is a major feat.. something nobody else can do
still |
| 00:17.02 |
dtidrow_work |
indeed - a
Linux-based kernel running on 512 CPU's :-) |
| 00:17.07 |
brlcad |
IBM is
probably closest.. but they peak out way before 512 with
P5 |
| 00:18.11 |
dtidrow_work |
is S_I (they
dropped the 'G' last year) still circling the drain, or have they
stabilized? |
| 00:18.34 |
Maloeran |
You'll have
to sacrifice a few processors to "manage" others as it grows, but
it should still scale very well if they got the memory architecture
right |
| 00:19.47 |
brlcad |
dropped the
G? I know they dropped the markey, but not a name
change |
| 00:19.52 |
brlcad |
s/markey/market/ |
| 00:20.23 |
dtidrow_work |
well, that's
my name for them now |
| 00:20.26 |
brlcad |
ah,
heh |
| 00:20.52 |
dtidrow_work |
read,
"S-blank-I" ;-) |
| 00:21.32 |
Maloeran |
Cool, the
Gambian President announced that he can cure AIDS in 3
days |
| 00:21.42 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
aside from the OS needing to be custom tailored, that's what's
particularly cool about what the altix does .. there's no special
processing nodes or otherwise limitation on the architecture .. it
acts like one massive 512-core machine |
| 00:22.24 |
Maloeran |
It sounds
quite neat, brlcad. I read briefly about the arch but it wasn't
technical enough ; I even thought it was one main memory bank and
not NUMA |
| 00:23.14 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 00:23.41 |
Twingy |
2 cpus dual
core |
| 00:27.40 |
Maloeran |
Dual-core is
so 2006. :) |
| 00:30.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (172 files in 32
dirs): |
| 00:30.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the
zlib website, |
| 00:30.02 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: this
eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding
invalid |
| 00:30.02 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a
potential security |
| 00:30.02 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data
(VU#680620 / |
| 00:30.04 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for
details. |
| 00:31.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 00:31.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the
zlib website, |
| 00:31.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: this
eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding
invalid |
| 00:31.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a
potential security |
| 00:31.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data
(VU#680620 / |
| 00:31.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for
details. |
| 00:39.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: follow zlib's
makefile and generate example and minigzip binaries (test
compilation/linking if anything). make them noinst. |
| 00:39.31 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/.cvsignore: add example and
minigzip |
| 00:44.33 |
louipc |
Maloeran: so
what's the new trend for 2007? |
| 00:46.56 |
bjorkBSD |
more screen
time :) |
| 00:47.38 |
louipc |
hahaha |
| 01:04.13 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: example.c doesn't
belong in the library |
| 01:54.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 13 dirs): remove duplication of
zlib's public headers from our include/ dir; have configure provide
a LIBZ_CPPFLAGS that points to src/other/zlib instead. |
| 02:01.09 |
Maloeran |
Sean, how
many people get an email every time you commit? :) |
| 02:02.33 |
brlcad |
heh, dunno
exactly |
| 02:03.10 |
brlcad |
not a massive
list, some join all the lists and then shortly after unsubscribe to
commits .. :) |
| 02:04.06 |
Maloeran |
I wonder why!
:) |
| 02:07.58 |
Twingy |
hooray
grapes |
| 02:14.13 |
Twingy |
I love this
charger |
| 02:15.01 |
Twingy |
backlit blue
lcd, programmable to charge/discharge user selectable cycles,
current, battery type, figures out how many cells in the battery,
doesn't get any better |
| 02:20.19 |
Twingy |
I hate how
opengl display lists store the modelview matrix and use that in
glGetDoublev instead of the current one |
| 02:23.42 |
Twingy |
<Raven>
I tried setting my hotmail password to penis. <Raven> It said
my password wasn't long enough. :( |
| 02:28.39 |
louipc |
high
tech |
| 02:29.31 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 02:29.35 |
Twingy |
back in the
day |
| 02:29.44 |
Twingy |
I'd have to
wait 15 hours for both batteries to recharge |
| 02:29.52 |
Twingy |
cause all you
had was the trickle charger |
| 02:30.12 |
Twingy |
granted even
today that ensures the longest possible battery life |
| 02:30.31 |
Twingy |
but I don't
mind losing 10% of my battery cycles if I can go from 15 hours to
15 minutes |
| 02:30.59 |
Twingy |
battery died
at the field, time to go home |
| 02:31.10 |
Twingy |
now if it
dies at the field, wait 20 minutes and you are up in the air
again |
| 02:31.57 |
bjorkBSD |
Twingy have
you ever read any of gingery's books? |
| 02:32.25 |
louipc |
I'd like
nuclear power in a battery |
| 02:32.59 |
Twingy |
I don't have
time to read books |
| 02:33.08 |
Twingy |
I'm always
building something or writing code |
| 02:33.19 |
Twingy |
and when I'm
not doing that I'm passed out on my bed |
| 02:34.06 |
Twingy |
the last book
I read and enjoyed was NURBS - a Monograph in visual
communications |
| 02:35.34 |
bjorkBSD |
he wrote a
series on building a machine shop from scrap. |
| 02:36.07 |
Twingy |
okay... |
| 02:36.30 |
louipc |
nice |
| 02:36.57 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 02:37.01 |
louipc |
I still
wonder how the first straightedge was created |
| 02:37.22 |
bjorkBSD |
with a spirit
level :-j |
| 02:37.33 |
louipc |
or how they
go the first lathes to run perfectly true |
| 02:37.59 |
bjorkBSD |
it was trial
after trial after trial. |
| 02:38.12 |
bjorkBSD |
then they
looked at the horizon and it matched. |
| 02:38.17 |
Twingy |
louipc, a
piece of string and a rock, let gravity do the work? |
| 02:38.35 |
bjorkBSD |
or they used
a string. |
| 02:38.55 |
Twingy |
that's how
I'dve done it *shrug* |
| 02:39.44 |
louipc |
I'm just
imagining to make accurate machines you need machines, but you need
them to be very accurate as well |
| 02:40.24 |
Twingy |
that was true
until laser measurement came around |
| 02:40.37 |
louipc |
but I guess
you could make a precise machine from a not-as-precise machine but
it would be very tough |
| 02:40.45 |
louipc |
hehe they
didn't have lasers back in the day |
| 02:40.46 |
Twingy |
now you just
use the phase angle and you've got perfect measurement |
| 03:33.04 |
Maloeran |
What the...
Gentoo dropped xmms, for some reason, it's out of the package tree
entirely |
| 03:34.09 |
Twingy |
spyware! |
| 03:34.32 |
bjorkBSD |
Twingy, what
kinda projects do you work on? |
| 03:34.37 |
bjorkBSD |
... in your
shop, ie. |
| 03:37.35 |
Maloeran |
Official
reason : "Gentoo can't afford to offer unmaintained
packages" |
| 03:38.49 |
Twingy |
bjorkBSD, you
mean my garage? |
| 03:39.45 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah. |
| 03:40.10 |
Twingy |
well, my big
project I'm gearing up for is my next generation rocket
motors |
| 03:40.18 |
Twingy |
getting away
from the monopropellant stuff |
| 03:40.31 |
Twingy |
and to do
that I needed a cnc mill and software for it |
| 03:40.35 |
louipc |
yep gentoo
annoyed the heck out of me so I switched to archlinux |
| 03:40.39 |
louipc |
I love
it |
| 03:40.42 |
Twingy |
and I wasn't
about to spend $$$ on cnc software |
| 03:40.52 |
Twingy |
so I hit
source forge |
| 03:40.56 |
Twingy |
and didn't
find crap |
| 03:40.57 |
bjorkBSD |
heheheh |
| 03:41.02 |
bjorkBSD |
and now you
have to write your own. |
| 03:41.06 |
Twingy |
right |
| 03:41.09 |
Twingy |
and 1 year
later |
| 03:41.09 |
louipc |
making
packages is easy too I'm making one for BRLCAD |
| 03:41.14 |
Twingy |
I have cnc
software |
| 03:41.19 |
bjorkBSD |
wonderful! |
| 03:41.24 |
Twingy |
and now I can
make my rocket motors |
| 03:41.35 |
Twingy |
I still need
to be able to make pcb's |
| 03:41.41 |
bjorkBSD |
i don't have
space for a foundry. |
| 03:41.41 |
louipc |
Twingy: you
do 3D work on the CNC? |
| 03:41.46 |
Twingy |
which
requires spending 2-3 weeks parsing gerber files |
| 03:41.54 |
bjorkBSD |
or i'd be
sandcasting the parts for a lathe right now. |
| 03:41.57 |
Twingy |
louipc, 2.5D
planar and soon radial |
| 03:42.13 |
Twingy |
stop calling
it a foundry |
| 03:42.17 |
louipc |
hehehe |
| 03:42.19 |
Twingy |
it's a pile
of bricks and a $100 torch |
| 03:42.23 |
bjorkBSD |
hahaha |
| 03:42.38 |
bjorkBSD |
i'll turn off
my gas and call it a space heater. |
| 03:42.44 |
bjorkBSD |
yours melts
everything right? |
| 03:42.47 |
louipc |
2.5 = not all
3 Axis at once? |
| 03:42.55 |
louipc |
*moving at
once |
| 03:43.04 |
Twingy |
it'll sustain
1kg object at 1700F no problem |
| 03:43.21 |
Twingy |
louipc, 2.5
means it can't do concave |
| 03:43.28 |
bjorkBSD |
will i win a
darwin award if i had it in my kitchen? |
| 03:43.37 |
Twingy |
you have to
build a jig and reposition or use 4th axis radial |
| 03:43.45 |
Twingy |
no |
| 03:43.53 |
Twingy |
friend of
mine has a taig in his dorm |
| 03:43.54 |
louipc |
well depends
on your cutter |
| 03:43.58 |
Twingy |
he built a
box around it |
| 03:44.04 |
Twingy |
so swarf
doesn't fly everywhere |
| 03:44.13 |
bjorkBSD |
i can see
having a lathe or a mill ... |
| 03:44.14 |
louipc |
yeah good
idea |
| 03:44.24 |
bjorkBSD |
but the
expensive torch is another story. |
| 03:44.26 |
louipc |
put in some
coolant too ;) |
| 03:44.37 |
Twingy |
you don't
need coolant for aluminum |
| 03:45.01 |
Twingy |
you just run
it at 2.0 ipm @ 0.01" layers |
| 03:45.11 |
louipc |
you can
increase your speeds and get better finish |
| 03:45.16 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test opennurbs regardless of
setting. ws, indent to 4 and tab at 8 like everything else for the
entire functionality section. |
| 03:45.27 |
Twingy |
louipc, you
can also do a final pass @ 0.001" and get same result |
| 03:45.43 |
Twingy |
I also polish
my stuff |
| 03:45.47 |
Twingy |
I have a
floor drill press |
| 03:45.51 |
Twingy |
I put in my
buffer |
| 03:45.55 |
Twingy |
hit it with
some rouge |
| 03:46.00 |
louipc |
too many
operations! |
| 03:46.00 |
Twingy |
and spend 30
seconds polishing |
| 03:46.05 |
louipc |
oh ok
hah |
| 03:46.25 |
Twingy |
depends on if
you want it shiney or not |
| 03:46.46 |
Twingy |
gcam.js.cx |
| 03:46.48 |
bjorkBSD |
Twingy, do
you have a url for your thingIamNotGonnaCallAFurnaceButBurnsRealHot
? |
| 03:46.49 |
Twingy |
that was
polished |
| 03:46.49 |
louipc |
do you know
if there are any addons to emacs or vim for NC editing? |
| 03:47.06 |
Twingy |
bjorkBSD,
http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/ |
| 03:47.12 |
bjorkBSD |
the plans for
building one? |
| 03:47.20 |
Twingy |
louipc,
download gcam |
| 03:47.24 |
Twingy |
you won't
need to edit |
| 03:47.32 |
Twingy |
bjorkBSD,
plans? |
| 03:47.38 |
louipc |
I do a lot of
manual programming |
| 03:47.38 |
Twingy |
goto home
depot and spend $10 on bricks |
| 03:47.57 |
bjorkBSD |
and the
torch? |
| 03:47.57 |
Twingy |
they won't
last as long as fire bricks |
| 03:48.03 |
Twingy |
hybridburners.com |
| 03:48.07 |
Twingy |
"Shorty" |
| 03:48.24 |
louipc |
gnucam
eh? |
| 03:48.28 |
Twingy |
got the
website from a guy that taught a ray-tracing session at
siggraph |
| 03:48.32 |
Twingy |
louipc,
yes |
| 03:49.55 |
bjorkBSD |
hah! |
| 03:50.10 |
bjorkBSD |
they're not
terribly cheap but it should be manageable :-? |
| 03:50.41 |
Twingy |
it um, takes
some trial and error |
| 03:51.06 |
Twingy |
eventually
your adhoc setup will let you cast decent size blocks of aluminum
with minimal air bubbles |
| 03:51.52 |
Twingy |
just remember
that if you spill something like that on your foot it'll
dissintegrate it |
| 03:52.37 |
Twingy |
and once you
get a system down, you'll cut your aluminum costs to a
quarter |
| 03:52.39 |
bjorkBSD |
damn! |
| 03:52.48 |
Twingy |
provided you
can get soda cans and scrap aluminum for free |
| 03:53.16 |
bjorkBSD |
i'll have to
fight with the homeless people around here :) |
| 03:53.40 |
Twingy |
I have more
scrap aluminum and cans than I know what to do with right
now |
| 03:53.40 |
Maloeran |
With only 2
feet, that's not too much margin for trial and error |
| 03:53.40 |
Twingy |
I like to do
50/50 mix of 6061 and 3104 cans |
| 03:53.40 |
bjorkBSD |
where do you
get them from, the recyclers? |
| 03:53.48 |
Twingy |
work |
| 03:54.09 |
Twingy |
if you have a
recycle day, go around the night before and pilfer them
all |
| 03:54.15 |
bjorkBSD |
hehehe |
| 03:54.30 |
Twingy |
um, my old
chair |
| 03:54.37 |
Twingy |
had an
aluminum base, cut it up on my bandsaw |
| 03:54.42 |
Twingy |
my network
rack is next to go |
| 03:54.53 |
Twingy |
~30lbs of
aluminum there |
| 03:55.11 |
Twingy |
just smelt it
with 1% zinc |
| 03:55.25 |
bjorkBSD |
alright. |
| 03:55.29 |
Twingy |
http://js.cx/~justin/cgi-bin/aluminum.cgi |
| 03:55.45 |
Twingy |
that's what I
charge |
| 03:56.00 |
bjorkBSD |
cool
:) |
| 03:56.07 |
bjorkBSD |
where do you
get the zinc from? |
| 03:56.23 |
Twingy |
stuff |
| 03:56.44 |
Twingy |
the zinc
fairy |
| 03:56.58 |
Twingy |
the
usual |
| 03:57.03 |
bjorkBSD |
she must be
hawt! |
| 03:58.00 |
Twingy |
so I aim to
have full in-house PCB and cnc production by summer |
| 03:58.14 |
bjorkBSD |
to launch
your satelltes with right? |
| 03:58.17 |
bjorkBSD |
... the
rockets, ie. |
| 03:58.35 |
Twingy |
dunno about
that, because that much propellant costs alot |
| 03:58.56 |
louipc |
I'd think
you'd need more specialised aluminum for that eh |
| 03:59.00 |
Twingy |
once I get
the engineering and design down it's just a matter of
scaling |
| 03:59.16 |
Twingy |
I haven't
revealed my design yet |
| 03:59.23 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.33 |
Twingy |
one of those
epiphanies |
| 03:59.34 |
bjorkBSD |
everything
created using open-source software right? |
| 03:59.37 |
Maloeran |
I'm sure
you'll find a couple people willing to donate for such a geeky
adventure :) |
| 03:59.39 |
Twingy |
right |
| 03:59.45 |
Twingy |
well |
| 03:59.49 |
bjorkBSD |
the tech
undergound. |
| 03:59.54 |
Twingy |
I'd like to
patent the motor and donate to GNU patents |
| 04:00.16 |
bjorkBSD |
alright mr
galt. |
| 04:01.08 |
Twingy |
I have a
trailer for my truck |
| 04:01.13 |
Maloeran |
"Galt" : To
murder a man without knowing |
| 04:01.16 |
Twingy |
if I scale it
up I'll use that as the launch platform |
| 04:01.52 |
Twingy |
I'll put a
tarp on it and drive to ohio where I have FAA clearance |
| 04:02.06 |
bjorkBSD |
who is john
galt, malorean ;) |
| 04:02.15 |
bjorkBSD |
which part of
Ohio/ |
| 04:02.48 |
Maloeran |
Ah,
definitely not someone I know |
| 04:03.17 |
Twingy |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15993507/ |
| 04:04.02 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 04:04.23 |
Twingy |
if I have to
drive any further I might not do it |
| 04:04.41 |
bjorkBSD |
baltimore to
ohio. |
| 04:04.47 |
bjorkBSD |
tha'ts a good
12 hrs |
| 04:04.50 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 04:04.58 |
bjorkBSD |
never
again! |
| 04:05.31 |
bjorkBSD |
i drove from
AR to De over the new years. |
| 04:05.41 |
brlcad |
12 hours?
maybe to the far west of OH |
| 04:06.05 |
brlcad |
I make it to
detroit from here in 6-8 hours and that takes me through
ohio |
| 04:06.06 |
bjorkBSD |
25 frigging
hrs in my trusty '88 240 dl :) |
| 04:06.47 |
bjorkBSD |
ah you must
have driven through W. Va? |
| 04:06.50 |
brlcad |
that's a lot
of bathroom breaks :) |
| 04:07.11 |
bjorkBSD |
3 hrs of
sleep and maybe 3 breaks. |
| 04:07.15 |
brlcad |
i've gone the
wva route before, but it's not really faster .. spend a lot of time
winding through the mountains |
| 04:07.44 |
bjorkBSD |
not counting
the endless refueling stops. |
| 04:07.46 |
brlcad |
across pa
turnpike into ohio |
| 04:07.47 |
Twingy |
in any case,
it'll be fun |
| 04:07.49 |
bjorkBSD |
those bricks
are HEAVY! |
| 04:08.15 |
Twingy |
? |
| 04:08.54 |
bjorkBSD |
a 240DL
stationwagon is a brick. |
| 04:13.19 |
Twingy |
next release
of gcam after tonight will be stable |
| 04:13.30 |
louipc |
nice! |
| 04:13.36 |
Twingy |
only took a
year right? |
| 04:13.52 |
louipc |
that's pretty
good |
| 04:15.48 |
Twingy |
well it's a
pretty simple program |
| 04:15.54 |
Twingy |
it's just got
alot of caveats |
| 04:15.58 |
louipc |
I've only
ever noticed projects here and there that are in 'planning'
phase |
| 04:16.07 |
Twingy |
heh |
| 04:16.10 |
louipc |
never
releasing any code |
| 04:16.14 |
Twingy |
I skip right
over planning and go into coding |
| 04:16.17 |
louipc |
I mean in the
CAM arena |
| 04:16.22 |
louipc |
for open
source |
| 04:16.31 |
Twingy |
most CAM
people are computer scientists |
| 04:16.41 |
Twingy |
machinists +
computer scientists are a rare breed |
| 04:16.54 |
Twingy |
*aren't |
| 04:16.57 |
Twingy |
meh |
| 04:17.00 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 04:17.02 |
Twingy |
you get my
drift |
| 04:17.07 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah. |
| 04:17.35 |
louipc |
aren't? so
why isn't there an open source package rivaling
mastercam? |
| 04:17.47 |
louipc |
who wants to
pay $30,000 in licensing fees |
| 04:18.24 |
Twingy |
I'm not
trying to rival mastercam |
| 04:18.29 |
Twingy |
mastercam is
overly complicated |
| 04:18.29 |
bjorkBSD |
what's
mastercam? |
| 04:18.39 |
Twingy |
it's like
brl-cad |
| 04:18.42 |
Twingy |
it does
everything |
| 04:18.48 |
Twingy |
I'm not
trying to do everything |
| 04:18.52 |
Twingy |
simpler the
better |
| 04:18.58 |
bjorkBSD |
the unix
way |
| 04:19.01 |
louipc |
yeah
mastercam could be a bit simpler |
| 04:19.07 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 04:19.12 |
Twingy |
instead of
completely extracting the user from the machine |
| 04:19.13 |
bjorkBSD |
louipc, are
you a machinist too? |
| 04:19.18 |
louipc |
yeap |
| 04:19.22 |
Twingy |
the user
thinks in terms of what their machine will be doing as they
model |
| 04:19.25 |
Twingy |
that's the
gcam model |
| 04:19.45 |
Twingy |
I don't like
the idea of sitting down to a computer, making a 3d
model |
| 04:19.54 |
Twingy |
and having
the computer choose the "best" tool paths |
| 04:19.56 |
louipc |
but I'm no
computer scientist.. more like a hobbist |
| 04:20.08 |
Twingy |
I like to
control what my machine is doing and in what order |
| 04:20.16 |
bjorkBSD |
cool
:) |
| 04:20.30 |
Twingy |
as complex as
gcam will get is probly contour pocketing |
| 04:20.38 |
Twingy |
right now it
does simple zig zag pocketing |
| 04:20.57 |
Twingy |
calculating
the tool offsets for multiple level hierchies was a
headache |
| 04:21.23 |
louipc |
yeah I agree
with that, the computer can make really stupid unnecessary
movements |
| 04:21.29 |
Twingy |
it takes the
pro-engineer philosophy of sketching something and extruding
it |
| 04:21.32 |
louipc |
that's why I
like to program manually heh |
| 04:22.09 |
Twingy |
if some one
wants to go in and make gcam have pretty anisotropic globally
illuminated 3d shaded models that's fine |
| 04:22.12 |
Twingy |
but wire
frame is fine |
| 04:22.34 |
louipc |
that would be
nice |
| 04:22.44 |
Twingy |
seems
overzealous to me |
| 04:22.53 |
Twingy |
eventually I
want to have assemblies |
| 04:23.03 |
Twingy |
so I take
something big "like a submarine" |
| 04:23.10 |
Twingy |
and I break
it into parts I can mill on my taig |
| 04:23.15 |
louipc |
wire frame
can numb the brain I find |
| 04:23.20 |
Twingy |
see the whole
thing and see just the part I'm going to cnc mill |
| 04:23.40 |
Twingy |
for
example |
| 04:23.41 |
louipc |
hehe so
you're taking on catia then eh? |
| 04:23.49 |
Twingy |
imagine if
after you get down to the lowest region in brl-cad |
| 04:23.52 |
bjorkBSD |
i thought
brl-cad > catia :P |
| 04:23.59 |
Twingy |
you had gcam
that displayed the tool paths |
| 04:24.04 |
Twingy |
for cutting
that hmmwv |
| 04:25.12 |
louipc |
yeah that
would be great |
| 04:25.12 |
brlcad |
catia is
mostly a different market |
| 04:25.32 |
brlcad |
and
considerably more developed on the interface side of things on many
levels (they've had billions invested) |
| 04:26.12 |
Twingy |
gcam has had
about $60 invested :) |
| 04:26.29 |
brlcad |
heh, not
quite :) |
| 04:26.37 |
brlcad |
you're time
is worth more than 0.02 cents :) |
| 04:26.45 |
Twingy |
don't kid
yourself! :) |
| 04:26.47 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 04:27.01 |
Twingy |
0.015 cents
tops |
| 04:27.10 |
Twingy |
you act like
I know how to write code or something |
| 04:27.26 |
Twingy |
look at
photon mapping! |
| 04:27.30 |
Twingy |
nuff
said |
| 04:27.41 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 04:29.20 |
Twingy |
PEANUT BUTTAH
JELLY TIME! |
| 04:29.30 |
brlcad |
where it at,
where it at |
| 04:29.31 |
louipc |
oh
yea |
| 04:29.49 |
Twingy |
where are you
living now? |
| 04:32.19 |
brlcad |
with a
baseball bat? |
| 04:32.54 |
Twingy |
you're living
with a baseball bat? |
| 04:33.22 |
brlcad |
peanut butter
jelly with a baseball bat! |
| 04:33.51 |
Twingy |
where it at
where it at! |
| 04:37.52 |
Twingy |
k |
| 04:37.57 |
Twingy |
windows
portage |
| 04:41.47 |
Twingy |
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/01/boston.bombscare/ |
| 04:42.54 |
louipc |
they would
answer questions only about hair awesome |
| 04:51.41 |
louipc |
Twingy will
you set up a CVS or SVN server for gcam eventually? |
| 05:34.14 |
Twingy |
once I finish
cleaning a few things up |
| 05:34.46 |
Twingy |
I don't want
to see things thing get bloated with goofy features |
| 05:35.15 |
Twingy |
I think it's
going to attract a bunch of people that just learned how to write
c++ code and want to add buttons galore |
| 05:44.42 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 05:45.16 |
louipc |
what's that
version of emacs that brlcad uses? |
| 05:47.55 |
Twingy |
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7424511&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat107700050032&id=1122655672294 |
| 05:48.15 |
bjorkBSD |
louipc,
jove |
| 05:48.26 |
louipc |
ah
right |
| 05:48.29 |
bjorkBSD |
it's scary.
none of the vi commands work in it. |
| 05:48.37 |
louipc |
jeff's own
version of emacs? |
| 05:48.49 |
louipc |
or
john |
| 05:49.01 |
bjorkBSD |
jonathan |
| 05:49.30 |
louipc |
why should vi
commands work in emacs?... but you could probably set it up to do
so |
| 05:50.18 |
louipc |
Twingy:
sweeet |
| 05:51.03 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 05:51.34 |
brlcad |
it's not
exactly a "version of emacs", save a fork from a really long time
ago when emacs was but a baby |
| 05:51.51 |
brlcad |
there is a
vi-mode for emacs |
| 05:52.05 |
louipc |
that's what I
mean 'a fork' |
| 05:52.56 |
bjorkBSD |
i was being
silly. |
| 05:53.41 |
louipc |
nah i think
it's silly that there's a vi-mode |
| 05:53.58 |
bjorkBSD |
i think it's
awesome. |
| 05:54.06 |
bjorkBSD |
it makes
emacs more useable. |
| 05:54.11 |
louipc |
why not just
use vim? hah |
| 05:54.12 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.40 |
bjorkBSD |
a text editor
w/o modes. that's just wrong. |
| 05:54.59 |
louipc |
feels right
to me |
| 05:55.07 |
bjorkBSD |
mged has 6
modes! that's even better. |
| 05:55.13 |
louipc |
I grew up
with windows ahem |
| 05:55.27 |
bjorkBSD |
i grew up
with dos and as soon as i could, i abandoned it. |
| 05:55.31 |
bjorkBSD |
*spits on
it* |
| 05:55.32 |
louipc |
but I'm only
using vim now ... to educate myself |
| 05:55.45 |
bjorkBSD |
the fastest
way is to use ed :) |
| 05:55.52 |
bjorkBSD |
you'll be
forced to learn what you need to. |
| 05:56.06 |
bjorkBSD |
... and in no
time at all. |
| 05:56.07 |
louipc |
and it seems
less needlessly huge than emacs |
| 05:59.16 |
louipc |
ohh ed
nooo |
| 06:37.16 |
Maloeran |
http://darkmonkey.org.uk/4/1/1153390177481.jpg |
| 06:37.51 |
louipc |
! |
| 06:46.49 |
brlcad |
heh, that's
quite a lot of moving parts |
| 06:47.33 |
brlcad |
apparently
256GB/drive if I count correctly, not too shabby |
| 07:01.09 |
brlcad |
wow, I like
this guy's /. comment .. can be applied to most religion
wars |
| 07:01.11 |
brlcad |
"Linux is
like a religion for people who really ought to be putting their
intelligence to better use than a religion. Stop wasting time
thinking of ways to get your neighbours to accept Linux as their
personal saviour from malware, and start teaching yourself C++ and
get to work improving things." |
| 07:07.00 |
Maloeran |
A healthy
dose of advertissing is still necessary, even if such words of
mouth is no match for Microsoft's marketing budget for
example |
| 07:08.23 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
there's an unbalanced amount of Linux zealots in comparison to
other aspects of life. Some people out here pratically live for
some sportive team, their future car or next television |
| 07:13.06 |
brlcad |
what you mean
by "unbalanced" is certainly curious, but sure there are fans and
beliefs in just about every aspect of life |
| 07:13.27 |
brlcad |
the whole
argument is probably a difference on whether that advertising
really is necessary or not |
| 07:14.07 |
brlcad |
proof by
action, example, and advancement or by what effectively amounts to
manipulation or convincing |
| 07:14.22 |
brlcad |
merit to both
sides I think |
| 07:18.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_getraw.h: remove the obsolete
rle_getraw.h header .. was renamed to rle_raw.h in a prior urt
update |
| 07:20.36 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: reorder |
| 07:21.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs): |
| 07:21.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
remove the libutahrle headers (utah raster toolkit) from our
include/ directory, |
| 07:21.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: and
move them up to src/other/libutahrle/include. let configure
set |
| 07:21.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
RLE_CPPFLAGS and set accordingly amongst the various
tools/libraries that need |
| 07:21.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: to
know the path. |
| 07:50.38 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: provide CPPFLAGS for tcl, tk,
itcl, itk, and termlib |
| 08:02.22 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (8 files in 6 dirs): move libterm.h back to
termlib's own directory and make everyone use TERMLIB_CPPFLAGS to
get the search path |
| 08:44.21 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): remove the itcl/itk
header files from our include/ directory, moving them back up to
src/other/incrTcl. utilize the new ITCL_CPPFLAGS and ITK_CPPFLAGS
accordingly. |
| 10:34.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (56 files in 50 dirs): |
| 10:34.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
*yawn* remove one of the big two remaining public header sets from
our include/ |
| 10:34.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
directory. remove tcl headers from include/ and utilize the
TCL_CPPFLAGS so |
| 10:34.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
compilation pulls headers from within src/other/libtcl instead.
since bu.h and |
| 10:34.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
raytrace.h include tcl foo, this implicates a change across almost
the entire |
| 10:34.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
build to add the new CPPFLAGS. |
| 10:35.09 |
brlcad |
i suppose
that's enough damage for now |
| 10:42.56 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): take a blind
guess that since these parts of adrt have/use bu.h that they
similarly need tcl_cppflags now too |
| 13:26.40 |
*** join/#brlcad cad60
(n=a87ebb52@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:26.49 |
cad60 |
hello |
| 13:26.55 |
cad60 |
hello~ |
| 13:27.00 |
cad60 |
anyone
here?? |
| 13:38.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 13:44.37 |
archivist |
2 nano
seconds to answer else timeout |
| 14:03.30 |
``Erik |
children
these days have no patience. |
| 16:00.22 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 18:46.40 |
*** join/#brlcad bobbens
(n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) |
| 19:08.38 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: group the converters with
their flags, sort. |
| 20:07.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 12 dirs): last one, remove the tk
headers from our include/ directory. use the TK_CPPFLAGS automake
variable instead, pointing to the headers in
src/other/libtk/generic/ dir |
| 22:55.08 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:55.21 |
*** part/#brlcad iday
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:07.55 |
brlcad |
mac-: there
is fairly extensive introductory material on the main website:
http://brlcad.org |
| 00:08.17 |
mac- |
ok |
| 00:08.21 |
brlcad |
ah, oop.. thx
louipc :) I should finish reading first.. |
| 00:08.28 |
mac- |
do you know
any good CAD for Linux ? |
| 00:09.17 |
brlcad |
er, you mean
other than brl-cad? |
| 00:09.26 |
mac- |
for
drafting |
| 00:09.33 |
brlcad |
ah..
CADD |
| 00:09.38 |
mac- |
similar to
AutoCAD |
| 00:10.06 |
brlcad |
the only
readily available one is qcad |
| 00:10.22 |
mac- |
uhm |
| 00:10.43 |
brlcad |
(free at
least) |
| 00:10.50 |
mac- |
i downloaded
GraphiteOne, but i couldn`t launch it |
| 00:10.51 |
brlcad |
and with any
production quality |
| 00:11.19 |
mac- |
and their
support hasn`t reply for my questions |
| 00:12.47 |
brlcad |
ah, I don't
follow the commercial products that closely, even less those
specific to drafting, even further less those that aren't open
source |
| 00:13.05 |
brlcad |
(sorry, just
not our concern/interest) |
| 00:13.21 |
mac- |
ok |
| 00:13.24 |
louipc |
I saw one
called FreeCAD on sourceforge, I haven't tried it yet |
| 00:13.57 |
brlcad |
freecad is
mildly useful, but they're even farther from production quality
than qcad |
| 00:14.03 |
louipc |
ouch |
| 00:14.55 |
brlcad |
it just
really takes too much time to build up the foundation for a CAD or
CADD or CAM system to achieve production quality for generalized
use |
| 00:15.12 |
brlcad |
might find a
tool or two specialized |
| 00:15.56 |
brlcad |
but freecad
and qcad and pythoncad and others try to cater to common audiences,
and have a excessively major hill to fight |
| 00:17.18 |
louipc |
yeah
definitely |
| 00:17.44 |
brlcad |
that's one of
the aspects where brl-cad shines -- even if you remove mged and the
gui, there's roughly 100+ man-years of development |
| 00:18.40 |
dtidrow_work |
and at least
25 real years of development behind it |
| 00:18.59 |
louipc |
do you think
you can achieve a professional level GUI with tcl/tk? |
| 00:32.04 |
``Erik |
given the #
of gui's professionally developed in tcl/tk...
probably... |
| 00:46.17 |
brlcad |
louipc: you
can, and even brl-cad's archer shows a lot of what is possible in
terms of a better gui more in line with several of the professional
system interfaces |
| 00:46.37 |
brlcad |
that said,
our next generation gui probably won't be in tcl/tk |
| 00:53.56 |
bjorkBSD |
but ... i
thought brl-cad *was* professional! |
| 00:54.21 |
bjorkBSD |
brilly wears
a uniform no? |
| 01:00.38 |
brlcad |
a
professional-quality gui? no, that's one of the things it does lack
.. in production professional use with professional-quality engine
facilities, yes |
| 01:02.23 |
bjorkBSD |
what will the
next gui be in? |
| 01:03.54 |
bjorkBSD |
in the
beginning was the CL, and lo, man took one look at the CLI and
thought it was bad. and man created the mouse to eat the CL but
verily verily i say unto ye, the CLI served as a useful barrier to
entry and kept the waifs away :D |
| 01:08.40 |
louipc |
@brlcad what
are you considering for the next GUI? |
| 01:10.14 |
louipc |
bjorkBSD:
hehe I find the CLI can actually be more efficient if you know what
you're doing, and it is well designed |
| 01:12.11 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah. i hear
vista's reintroduced it :D |
| 01:12.38 |
bjorkBSD |
as far as
command line completion goes. |
| 01:12.54 |
louipc |
oh tab
completion? |
| 01:13.15 |
bjorkBSD |
something
like that. i saw it in a youtube video |
| 01:13.36 |
louipc |
I've heard
bad things about vista, and not from windows users
nonetheless |
| 01:13.37 |
bjorkBSD |
... they've
had it in iexplorer for ages, but it seems it's use has been
broadened. |
| 01:14.21 |
louipc |
I tried XP
because a linux user said it was the best thing since 3.1 or
something. That didn't last for me hah. |
| 01:14.32 |
louipc |
bad things...
*and from windows users... |
| 01:14.46 |
louipc |
typo |
| 01:14.50 |
bjorkBSD |
hehe |
| 01:15.08 |
bjorkBSD |
i have a
windows partition i reboot to every now and then. |
| 02:21.32 |
*** join/#brlcad bobbens
(n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) |
| 04:44.31 |
Maloeran |
Could anyone
tell me what's the common memory and processing models within HPC
clusters? I received from a non-programmer by email information
that conflicts with my assumptions |
| 04:44.39 |
Maloeran |
Keywords to
wikipedia would do too |
| 04:46.16 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 06:36.10 |
brlcad |
louipc: the
CLI is not going away in the least and would actually be more a
part of the foundation to the interface (e.g. anything you could do
in the gui would be exposed on the cli and vice-versa) |
| 06:39.55 |
brlcad |
it would be
just more of a focus on designing a gui that actually works, is
efficient, more consistent, is readily pluggable, and not nearly as
much of a bear to maintain/improve as mged's is |
| 06:41.41 |
Maloeran |
Nevermind the
question about cluster processing, Mark had some... weird ideas on
the topic :) |
| 06:43.43 |
brlcad |
most custom
designs in general with data localized/replicated in-core or is
spread across some out-of-core storage and loaded as
needed |
| 06:48.24 |
brlcad |
most don't
have shared process spaces or shared address spaces, but often have
shared storage (but not always) so it usually boils down to whether
disk memory is sufficient or whether to optimize
replicaton/distribution over some communication pipe like tcp
sockets, mpi, pvm, etc |
| 06:49.30 |
Maloeran |
Shared
address spaces, that exists? |
| 06:49.44 |
Maloeran |
It goes
against all I know, but it was what Mark apparently
assumed |
| 06:50.42 |
brlcad |
there's a few
systems that do, some experimental, some more
production |
| 06:51.54 |
Maloeran |
Woah...
but.. |
| 06:52.38 |
Maloeran |
If the memory
address space is shared, it must be a single system made of
multiple processors ; you have one memory bank |
| 06:53.07 |
Maloeran |
It wouldn't
be too reasonable to get a page fault for every memory access and
synchronize with other processing nodes constantly |
| 06:53.35 |
brlcad |
not
necessarily -- the kernel is simply written/geared towards managing
the memory |
| 06:53.51 |
brlcad |
that's the
whole idea around single shared image systems in
general |
| 06:54.03 |
brlcad |
mosix is
probably the most popular/common one that you might have heard
about |
| 06:54.06 |
brlcad |
or
openmosix |
| 06:54.19 |
brlcad |
ahh, here's
some references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-system_image |
| 06:54.35 |
Maloeran |
I really
don't see how this could possibly work |
| 06:55.07 |
Maloeran |
The only way
for the kernel to know what memory is being modified or accessed is
to trigger page faults |
| 06:56.18 |
brlcad |
they do work
;) |
| 06:56.27 |
brlcad |
to varying
degrees of coolness |
| 06:56.33 |
Maloeran |
Do you have
any idea how, briefly? |
| 06:56.44 |
brlcad |
mosix gets
away with it by simply migrating processes to balance
load |
| 06:56.45 |
Maloeran |
How can they
track what's being read or written to synchronize the
data? |
| 06:56.58 |
Maloeran |
Yes, they can
migrate processes, but they won't share address space |
| 06:57.09 |
Maloeran |
You couldn't
get shared memory between processes |
| 06:57.15 |
brlcad |
right, that's
why they're only a partial SSI |
| 06:57.42 |
brlcad |
there is
still one shared address space, but it's no bigger than the
smallest single system's available memory |
| 06:58.07 |
brlcad |
which isn't
entirely true .. but a simple enough simplification |
| 06:58.13 |
Maloeran |
How can they
possibly synchronize that memory? |
| 06:58.57 |
brlcad |
they don't
really need too -- the process moves with it's memory |
| 06:59.49 |
Maloeran |
Yes, yes,
moving processes around is fine. Now, let's say you have process A
on the box M and process B on the box N. The two processes have
160mb allocated as shared memory which they use to
communicate |
| 07:00.14 |
Maloeran |
How are they
going to manage and synchornize that memory between the two
nodes? |
| 07:00.53 |
brlcad |
that's the
entire question behind just how do you do SSI |
| 07:01.00 |
brlcad |
each of those
ssi projects goes about it a different way |
| 07:01.05 |
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| 07:01.22 |
Maloeran |
I see no
other way than constant page faults, which would make performance
crawl |
| 07:01.25 |
brlcad |
some are
compiler mods coupled with specific kernels that are fed
information about memory access |
| 07:01.55 |
brlcad |
just because
you can't imagine it doesn't mean someone else hasn't
:) |
| 07:02.14 |
Maloeran |
I know that,
but I'm asking how it works! :) I guess I should do some
reading |
| 07:03.24 |
brlcad |
well, you
might also be thinking shared memory == shared address space and it
doesn't |
| 07:03.33 |
brlcad |
at least not
necessarily |
| 07:04.07 |
brlcad |
whether you
even can write C code on a lot of those systems is not possible --
some are very customized academic projects |
| 07:04.24 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, the
box M needs to "know" when the process A writes within the shard
memory, so it can update it on box N |
| 07:05.00 |
Maloeran |
Okay, Mosix
doesn't support shared memory |
| 07:05.07 |
brlcad |
with shared
memory -- sure, and there's ways a kernel could be written to
propagate that |
| 07:05.19 |
brlcad |
yes, mosix
doesn't |
| 07:05.59 |
brlcad |
it does
process migration in a unified process address space |
| 07:05.59 |
Maloeran |
The kernel
must be told by the processor that writes occur to begin with ;
that implies a page fault |
| 07:06.29 |
brlcad |
implies a
"fault" of some sort .. whether memory is managed in pages is an
assumption in itself |
| 07:06.55 |
brlcad |
whether that
maps to hardware fault is yet another |
| 07:07.33 |
Maloeran |
Right, of
course so. What I'm trying to say is that page faults, specifically
assuming ia32/amd64 hardware, would cripple performance |
| 07:08.08 |
brlcad |
i believe
openssi actually does shared memory across a unified address
space |
| 07:08.17 |
brlcad |
though I
haven't looked into how they actually achieved it |
| 07:09.04 |
brlcad |
hey, you
can't get it all for free -- if you're going to be accessing memory
across a network link, performance is going to be crippled no
matter how creative you get |
| 07:10.05 |
brlcad |
i mean you're
talking the difference of a couple clock cycles to a few nanosecs
at best |
| 07:10.34 |
brlcad |
which is of
course...several orders |
| 07:10.49 |
brlcad |
the fact that
it'll even do it (and do it automatically) is what's
amazing |
| 07:11.12 |
brlcad |
just getting
it to work at all has been something groups have been working on
for longer than I've been alive :) |
| 07:11.19 |
Maloeran |
I'm asking
this because Mark had the assumption that clusters could share
memory address space, running threads over the processing network,
which is of course incorrect |
| 07:11.34 |
Maloeran |
But I thought
there could be some weird cluster architecture I wasn't aware
of |
| 07:12.04 |
brlcad |
nobody does
individual thread-level yet afaik .. even mosix only does
process-level |
| 07:12.16 |
brlcad |
though
openssi does thread-group migration iirc, one step
closer |
| 07:12.59 |
Maloeran |
I don't know
if it's really amazing, it's absolutely horrible by design
:) |
| 07:13.21 |
brlcad |
openssi might
be what he was thinking .. or mosix for that matter and he really
just meant unified address space instead of shared and running
processes over the network instead of threads |
| 07:13.38 |
brlcad |
horrible?? |
| 07:13.58 |
Maloeran |
If you want
to distribute processing over a network, just write the software as
such |
| 07:14.18 |
brlcad |
some of those
systems are nearly optimal for doing exactly that |
| 07:14.18 |
brlcad |
with zero
effort on your part |
| 07:14.53 |
Maloeran |
Without
shared memory, I still need to handle I/O between processes, I
haven't gained anything |
| 07:15.39 |
brlcad |
perhaps, or
maybe you have an application that is already well-designed to not
have that assumption or need for interprocess
communication |
| 07:15.59 |
brlcad |
you're making
a ton of assumptions about what matters, assumptions that don't
hold for a lot of cases |
| 07:16.37 |
Maloeran |
Right, I
should clarify : I'm thinking about distributed processing for a
single problem, not running 100 distinct processes |
| 07:17.09 |
brlcad |
it also
depends on the nature of the problem itself of course |
| 07:17.38 |
brlcad |
if you have a
problem that can be independently parallelized, it can likely also
be independently distributed seamlessly |
| 07:18.10 |
brlcad |
(with a given
architecture (software and hardware) |
| 07:18.25 |
Maloeran |
True, but
then there isn't much to gain from "apparently" running the 100
processes "locally" rather than booting them on the 100 boxes. It's
a bit easier to manage surely |
| 07:18.56 |
brlcad |
whether
there's much to gain depends on the problem too :) |
| 07:19.03 |
brlcad |
something
short-lived, yeah, not much gain |
| 07:19.15 |
brlcad |
something
like the life of your rays, yeah not much gain |
| 07:19.32 |
brlcad |
something
that took minutes/days/weeks to process.. it'd be incredibly
useful |
| 07:19.37 |
Maloeran |
I see the
point but it's really a matter of convenience, an user could start
the processes on the other boxes "manually" too |
| 07:19.57 |
brlcad |
sure, but
then I could have done that anyways.. |
| 07:20.12 |
brlcad |
the point of
the cluster is to do that stuff for you with the least
effort |
| 07:20.46 |
brlcad |
sometimes
that least effort is by custom coding or using mpi or it's by going
with a different cluster architecture that does things for
you |
| 07:20.56 |
Maloeran |
Right, so
it's a matter of convenience, I realize that |
| 07:21.04 |
brlcad |
most of the
popular (massive) clusters don't do SSI |
| 07:21.17 |
brlcad |
i think HP's
cluster tech does, but nobody else |
| 07:21.34 |
brlcad |
everyone else
predominantly is geared towards mpi |
| 07:23.07 |
brlcad |
that's what
the network cards are optimizing for, the network stacks, etc.. if
you want to efficiently scale up to 10k processors and not have to
worry (as much) about bottlenecking yourself with
interprocess/thread communication, mpi can help (even as heavy as
it can be otherwise) |
| 07:24.15 |
Maloeran |
Yes, MPI is a
neat abstraction layer, I won't contest that :) |
| 07:24.58 |
brlcad |
course if
your problem can take advantage of 10k processors or even 1k
easily.. then there's not much advantage to be had by the
alternative of custom coding some network layer yourself to avoid
mpi's (variable) overhead .. even a "2x" savings on something that
takes two weeks to compute isn't that interesting |
| 07:26.25 |
brlcad |
because those
are generally problems that are entirely
intractible/unfeasible/useless on smaller
supercomputers |
| 07:27.44 |
brlcad |
it's still
"at least a couple years" out before I'll be able to do a
full-blown fluid dynamics simulation on a dual quad-core
workstation to say the least.. ;) |
| 07:28.16 |
Maloeran |
:) Seems I'll
have a chance to try that out soon |
| 07:28.50 |
brlcad |
full-blown
valid-physics down to something like millimeter accuracy at
least |
| 07:29.01 |
Maloeran |
I have only
read documentation and code about MPI, I'll try to move on from
TCP/IP soon |
| 07:29.23 |
brlcad |
there are
tons of simplifications that can be made on an fluid problem to get
them to work on workstations already |
| 07:29.51 |
Maloeran |
I'll probably
get to rewrite SURVICE's fire simulation soon ( fluid dynamics ),
it's really filled with simplifications |
| 07:29.53 |
brlcad |
MPI isn't
"great" .. it's been so painful to achieve adoption because the API
is a pita |
| 07:30.36 |
brlcad |
but it's like
democracy .. it's not great, but it's the best to have been
conceived, adopted, and popularized to date |
| 07:30.37 |
Maloeran |
The API of
MPI seemed appropriate for its purpose... I may think differently
when I get to use it |
| 07:30.48 |
brlcad |
it's gotten
tons better |
| 07:31.43 |
Maloeran |
I was baffled
by how slow SURVICE's fire modelling was, especially when I heard
how much they simplified the problem. Never let engineers write
code, in Fortran 77 too |
| 07:37.52 |
Maloeran |
If I may, how
much is there to lose by using MPI over more tailored specific
solutions, for software running on 1-4 nodes or so? |
| 07:52.58 |
brlcad |
mpi for 1-4
nodes is frankly pointless -- that could just as easily be a
command line option for that few nodes |
| 07:55.06 |
brlcad |
--run-on="node1, node2, node3, node4"
etc.. fork a master than remote execs to the nodes or something
else .. heck of a lot simpler code and trivial to manage the
communication between them without worring about a major
bottleneck |
| 07:56.42 |
brlcad |
it's only
once it's over like 16 that it starts to get "hard" imho and things
start to matter |
| 07:57.38 |
brlcad |
how much you
loose depends on lot on how many MPI calls you make and how much
interprocess/thread communication is going on (which you generally
want to minimize of course as much as possible) |
| 07:58.59 |
brlcad |
compared to
strait-up custom tcp, I've seen the mpi overhead be as low as only
a couple percent to being a couple hundred |
| 08:00.05 |
brlcad |
the main
benefit of course being that tcp was easy to write for smaller
counts of nodes .. but quickly doesn't scale for larger and larger
node counts where mpi scales considerably better and doesn't have
to be maintained/debugged/tweaked |
| 08:45.18 |
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| 15:30.07 |
Maloeran |
Thanks for
the reply, brlcad, I was asleep by then |
| 15:39.28 |
``Erik |
mal: have ya
read up on 'numa'? |
| 15:39.52 |
Maloeran |
Sure, some
time ago |
| 15:40.39 |
``Erik |
hrm, didja
forget it? :D (given your conversation before you went to bed, I'd
assume...) |
| 15:40.53 |
Maloeran |
We should
store a whole copy of geometry and graphs per memory bank, and have
specific threads access it... but I haven't read about the software
interfaces to do so |
| 15:41.15 |
``Erik |
it's a
cluster form with a unified memory space on several independant
nodes, each with its own cpu and memory... |
| 15:41.16 |
Maloeran |
The
discussion wasn't really related to NUMA, it was about distributed
processing over multiple nodes |
| 15:42.10 |
Maloeran |
The count of
processors in such a design is kept very low, is it not? Up to 16
for an octo-dual-opteron |
| 15:42.24 |
``Erik |
an altix is a
numa cluster of small single cpu ia64 machines using sgi's numalink
to get unsucky bandwidth between 'em and a hacked up suse to handle
processor and memory affinity |
| 15:43.15 |
Maloeran |
That's one
single machine though, not a cluster |
| 15:43.23 |
``Erik |
no, it's a
cluster |
| 15:43.51 |
``Erik |
if I walk up
to one, it's a bunch of seperat 2u machines, I could pull the numa
cables off the back, put in a hard drive and install an os on that
one machine |
| 15:44.21 |
``Erik |
http://www.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/information/hardware/altix350_front.jpg |
| 15:44.24 |
Maloeran |
Do opteron
clusters work the same way? |
| 15:45.15 |
``Erik |
it doesn't
matter what the cpu is, it depends on the kernel and interconnect
(using something like ethernet would make it absolutely
horrible) |
| 15:46.04 |
Maloeran |
So the
Opteron clusters Mark spoke of do have an unified memory
space? |
| 15:46.06 |
``Erik |
the opteron
clusters I have are not numa, they're regular ethernet tcp/ip
nodes, each with independant kernels that don't try to assume
anything about eachother, and a single disk attachment |
| 15:46.16 |
``Erik |
I don't know
which clusters mark spoke of... :) |
| 15:46.56 |
Maloeran |
So opteron
clusters do exist having a global memory address space by
NUMA? |
| 15:47.32 |
``Erik |
I would be
surprised if they didn't *shrug* like I said, what cpu it is and
NUMA are unrelated |
| 15:48.35 |
``Erik |
I could take
a stack of old 486's running 10baseT and hack up a numa kernel for
'em... it'd suck, but it's doable |
| 15:48.39 |
``Erik |
or, heh,
numaPIC :D |
| 15:48.50 |
Maloeran |
It's
certainly not running on a standard motherboard then! |
| 15:49.05 |
``Erik |
sure it is...
numa is a kernel hack |
| 15:49.32 |
Maloeran |
NUMA is a
hardware solution |
| 15:49.32 |
``Erik |
ok, if you
miss on level1 cache, it goes to level3... if it misses there,
maybe it goes to memory... if it misses there, it goes to swap,
right? |
| 15:49.51 |
Maloeran |
That's not a
kernel solution until it misses memory and trigger a page
fault |
| 15:49.52 |
``Erik |
shove 'other
nodes' inbetween memory and swap, that's numa |
| 15:50.03 |
``Erik |
no, numa is a
kernel hack that lets you fake unified memory |
| 15:50.08 |
``Erik |
NUMALink is a
hardware solution |
| 15:50.09 |
Maloeran |
A page fault
per memory access is not practical |
| 15:50.22 |
``Erik |
yeah it is,
IF you have a low latency interconnect |
| 15:50.36 |
``Erik |
which is what
NUMALink is... sgi's proprietary interconnect, designed with numa
archs in mind |
| 15:51.01 |
Maloeran |
You would
spend 50000 times the processing time of *one* memory-accessing
instruction to handle that page fault! |
| 15:51.08 |
``Erik |
ib and myra
could probably do it semi-decently if your kernels scheduler was
very aware of affinity |
| 15:51.40 |
``Erik |
the trick is
that migrations are minimized... if a processor is happily using 1
node, it'll try to keep it on that node... |
| 15:51.56 |
``Erik |
if two apps
are sharing memory, it'll bias towards running both of those on
that one node |
| 15:52.50 |
``Erik |
(and
accessing another nodes memory, if you're using a decent
interconnect (like NUMALink for the altix) may be an order of
magnitude slower than local memory, but is several orders better
than swap |
| 15:52.52 |
``Erik |
) |
| 15:53.16 |
Maloeran |
I see, so it
does work by page faults |
| 15:53.42 |
``Erik |
if the
underlying arch does, I'd imagine it'd have to |
| 15:54.15 |
Maloeran |
NUMA as
implemented in an Opteron system is really fast, memory banks bound
to other processors are just a bit slower if the hypertransport
link is not saturated |
| 15:54.19 |
``Erik |
(also; a
common use of supercomputers isn't to run one really really big
app, but to run a bunch of sorta big apps) |
| 15:54.27 |
Maloeran |
That's
usually what I refer to by NUMA |
| 15:54.59 |
``Erik |
you're
talking about hypertransport and how it can facilitate numa, not
numa |
| 15:55.12 |
``Erik |
hypertransport is just a fast
interconnect... |
| 15:55.40 |
``Erik |
if the kernel
is stupid about using it, it'll 'page fault' through to the other
cpu's memory banks frequently... no? |
| 15:56.00 |
Maloeran |
No, it
doesn't page fault |
| 15:56.04 |
Maloeran |
It's a
hardware solution :) |
| 15:56.19 |
``Erik |
ok, *shrug*
then they have both in hw |
| 15:56.26 |
Maloeran |
The hardware
physically routes queries to the memory of other processor
banks |
| 15:56.38 |
``Erik |
on an sgi
altix, afaik, it's a fault and request... and surprisingly
fast |
| 15:56.50 |
``Erik |
on mosix,
it's a fault and request... and depends on the
interconnect |
| 15:57.15 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 15:57.35 |
``Erik |
so it's an
mmu hack that requires use of the hw 'task' vectors? |
| 15:57.49 |
``Erik |
<-- not
versed in hypertransport, is old :) |
| 15:58.33 |
Maloeran |
The pages are
assigned to other memory banks, I guess it's managed as such by the
MMU |
| 15:59.10 |
``Erik |
well, you
have to manage the memory location by task... if the hw does that,
you have to tell the hw when you're in a certain
task... |
| 15:59.17 |
``Erik |
(task as in
intel speak for process) |
| 15:59.20 |
Maloeran |
It's just one
big memory bank really, it's just that processors are faster to
access their local one |
| 16:00.33 |
``Erik |
(as in
hypertransport, not hyperthreading) |
| 16:01.30 |
``Erik |
hm, works on
packets that're either flagged "posted" (for uma and dma) or
"nonposted" (for numa)... |
| 16:08.25 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps
proper management of the memory banks, DMA? |
| 16:09.11 |
``Erik |
not sure,
lots of bit manipulation, probably to make the bank/process
association to retain coherency |
| 16:10.06 |
``Erik |
linux has a
metric assload more than fbsd, mebbe that's why the single process
run on a linux opteron outran the same run on a fbsd
opteron |
| 16:10.59 |
``Erik |
ooh, damnit,
now I wanna do kernel hacking to improve the cpu and memory
affinity on that quad opteron |
| 16:11.28 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 16:11.37 |
Maloeran |
I can't
believe a NUMA system which would page faults for every access,
requesting the data before resuming the instruction, could perform
comparably to software fetching the data in advance as one big
chunk |
| 16:11.39 |
``Erik |
stupid
raytracer crap |
| 16:12.00 |
``Erik |
well, the
"page fault" may not call a cpu interrupt, it may be completely hw
abstracted and fast *shrug* |
| 16:12.48 |
``Erik |
but the os
still has to manage the mmu *shrug* it may just be that the
interconnect keeps a duplicate copy of the kernels notion of what
memory resides where |
| 16:13.10 |
Maloeran |
I
see. |
| 16:14.41 |
``Erik |
(per ghz,
opteron running 85k rays/sec, g5 at 45k, ia32 at 18k...
damn) |
| 16:15.57 |
``Erik |
(well, one
opteron was 85k, the other was 60k... r12k was 31k, usII was 30k,
ia64 at 41k) |
| 16:16.19 |
Maloeran |
librt this
is? |
| 16:16.23 |
``Erik |
ja |
| 16:16.49 |
``Erik |
the 64 intel
amd64 (used to be called EMT or something?) came in at
25k |
| 16:17.24 |
``Erik |
oh, with the
ia32, 18k for linux, 32k for fbsd... |
| 16:17.58 |
dtidrow |
in other
words, librt is optimized for fbsd |
| 16:18.06 |
``Erik |
these are all
'per ghz' on machines with radically differnet cpu speeds and no
attention paid to bus speeds or anything, btw |
| 16:18.22 |
``Erik |
well, on the
opteron, linux came in at 85k where fbsd was 60k |
| 16:18.58 |
dtidrow |
guess linux
has the better memory management inplementation on
opteron |
| 16:19.05 |
``Erik |
makes me
think that it's not an artifact of librt being optimized one way or
another, but the OS... amd64 is immature on amd64, but kickin' on
ia32 |
| 16:19.27 |
dtidrow |
fbsd, you
mean? |
| 16:19.35 |
``Erik |
I think the
memory mgmt is all an upfront hit with pools being used,
... |
| 16:19.37 |
``Erik |
er, yeah,
sorry |
| 16:19.52 |
``Erik |
amd:
linux>fbsd. ia32: fbsd>linux. |
| 16:20.18 |
dtidrow |
heh, another
reason for me to get AMD :-) |
| 16:20.36 |
dtidrow |
anyway gotta
head in to work - later all... |
| 16:20.41 |
``Erik |
later,
dude |
| 17:23.23 |
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| 18:51.46 |
``Erik |
numa is an
abstract idea, not a specific implementation... |
| 19:31.44 |
Maloeran |
Oh hrm. Erik,
I briefly mentionned we debated cluster architectures in an email,
and he asks, what's your "recommendation"? :) |
| 19:32.02 |
Maloeran |
I guess he
means TCP/IP vs MPI vs NUMA-aware pthreads |
| 19:32.21 |
Maloeran |
In the
context, "he" being Mark |
| 19:36.52 |
brlcad |
numa-aware
pthreads is generally part of single-image systems, not clustering
.. otherwise saying "red vs blue vs duckies" |
| 19:37.52 |
Maloeran |
Altix
clusters, for example, have an unified address space though, which
means that NUMA-aware threads could reasonably work |
| 19:39.36 |
brlcad |
there are
massive altix smp and clusters of massive altix smp |
| 19:40.14 |
brlcad |
the clusters
don't have a unified address space, altix is cool because it's smp
and not a cluster in itself |
| 19:40.51 |
Maloeran |
All right,
that clarifies the definitions. So it's a 512 processors SMP NUMA
system |
| 19:41.07 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 19:41.51 |
brlcad |
and that'll
be quite a price tag at that size to say the least |
| 19:42.02 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:42.26 |
brlcad |
pretty much
only find those systems at HPC assets (which ARL does happen to
have, the MSRC) |
| 19:42.34 |
``Erik |
altix is
numa, not smp... |
| 19:42.50 |
brlcad |
altix is numa
and smp |
| 19:43.14 |
``Erik |
meh, numa is
a memory layout, not a cpu scheduling layout, so
*shrug* |
| 19:43.59 |
``Erik |
but duckies,
... duckies are awesome |
| 19:44.06 |
``Erik |
(ever watch
'ze frank'?) |
| 19:44.12 |
brlcad |
daily
;) |
| 19:44.29 |
brlcad |
ze
frank |
| 19:44.38 |
brlcad |
ze frank is
pretty awesome |
| 19:45.15 |
``Erik |
it's on my
daily list, too, along with sbemail and the comic page and
smacksnot |
| 19:46.01 |
archivist |
hmm smacks
not or smack snot |
| 19:46.18 |
``Erik |
smack
snot |
| 19:46.25 |
``Erik |
aka crack
rock |
| 19:46.40 |
``Erik |
sometimes
slashdot, by the unitiated or sufficiently confused |
| 19:50.14 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
maybe watch some of these for starters: http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/
then click on "popular shows" on the left |
| 19:50.54 |
``Erik |
heh, then
blow a solid week watching the entire archive *cough*
O:-) |
| 19:51.21 |
archivist |
I wont be
able to read slashdot without the thought smack snot going through
my head now |
| 19:51.42 |
``Erik |
*bow* |
| 19:52.03 |
``Erik |
that's a good
thing, right? you'll be able to do something productive,
instead? |
| 19:52.28 |
archivist |
wot hell
no |
| 19:54.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: punty "depends"
target |
| 19:59.52 |
``Erik |
nothing
:) |
| 20:00.00 |
``Erik |
there'll be a
bigarsed commit in a few |
| 20:00.19 |
brlcad |
hrm |
| 20:00.22 |
``Erik |
but, as the
regex.h issue remains, my testing of it is incomplete |
| 20:01.09 |
``Erik |
I don't think
tcl's regex stuff can be easily removed, it looks like it's use in
the symbol resolving functions, as well as in the file
routines |
| 20:03.38 |
brlcad |
i didn't mean
remove the regex code, just the files themselves -- or do you mean
they're #including .c files or something? |
| 20:04.03 |
``Erik |
<-- finds
himself going into dirs in the appropriate dep chain order and
doing make by hand to get the lib or bin he wants, thinks it'd be
keen if he could go where he wants and do "make depends
all" |
| 20:04.20 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 20:04.23 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
would be useful |
| 20:04.31 |
``Erik |
not including
.c files, but generic/regex.h is used several places in
generic/*.c |
| 20:04.34 |
brlcad |
i do the cd
dir dir dir blah foo too |
| 20:05.14 |
brlcad |
i think only
folks that understand how automake works are generally inclined to
do that, but hey that's cool |
| 20:05.18 |
``Erik |
it might be
best to mv regex.h regex_tcl.h and sed 's/regex\.h/regex_tcl.h'
*.[ch] |
| 20:05.38 |
brlcad |
might also
just get away with -DVOID=void |
| 20:05.52 |
``Erik |
I'd do it to
what we have now, but I ASSUME you're close to committing a new
tcl |
| 20:05.57 |
brlcad |
the more I
looked at it last night, the more it looked like it was
empty |
| 20:05.59 |
``Erik |
that won't be
the only thing broken, just the first |
| 20:06.20 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-61.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:06.31 |
``Erik |
unless
generic/regex.h just happens to have all the meat of
/usr/include/regex.h and it happens to use the same define values
and stuff |
| 20:07.21 |
``Erik |
well, commit
it up, yo... even if it's busted, we could split the load and both
go about fixing... *shrug* |
| 20:11.36 |
``Erik |
in a branch
if ya want *shrug* I'll sync to a branch |
| 20:13.46 |
brlcad |
commit what
up? |
| 20:13.59 |
brlcad |
-DVOID=void? |
| 20:14.48 |
brlcad |
still working
on finishing this 8.5 testing/building, trying to get subconfigures
to work reliably |
| 20:17.07 |
dtidrow_work |
http://tinyurl.com/3cx56e - good
grief |
| 20:17.39 |
dtidrow_work |
the
excessively accesorised toilet |
| 20:19.12 |
archivist |
lacks a
lectern for a heavy book |
| 20:19.24 |
brlcad |
hrm.. by that
math |
| 20:22.09 |
brlcad |
it's saying
the average person spends 11862 hours per day in the bathroom
(presumably on the toilet) .. which is roughly 30 minutes a
day |
| 20:22.58 |
``Erik |
per
day? |
| 20:23.31 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:24.02 |
brlcad |
i know some
people that .. er .. take forever, but then they have "issues" too
afaik |
| 20:24.16 |
brlcad |
well yeah,
that depends what all is included |
| 20:24.28 |
brlcad |
the article
makes it sound like you spend all that time on the john |
| 20:25.05 |
dtidrow_work |
heh - women
spend at least 1.5hrs a day in the bathroom, then |
| 20:25.06 |
archivist |
for a good
stiff sh.. the a good read is needed |
| 20:26.45 |
brlcad |
i never got
that, i'm in and out every time -- there's no by the time I finish
a couple sentances, it's over |
| 20:27.16 |
``Erik |
need
something to tear pages out of if there's no tp *shrug* |
| 20:28.13 |
dtidrow_work |
clearly
``Erik belongs to the church of vi |
| 20:28.24 |
``Erik |
yes, the vim
sect |
| 20:31.05 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (13 files in 13 dirs): beginnings
of DEPS flags for "make depends" chaining. |
| 20:46.34 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 20:48.28 |
``Erik |
? |
| 20:49.47 |
brlcad |
instead of
(re)listing the dependencies.. they're already listed in a couple
places |
| 20:50.27 |
brlcad |
you could
parse over the libadd/ldadd stuff, or peek at the _DEPENDENCIES
vars or peek in the .deps dirs and build up that directory list
automatically |
| 20:51.08 |
brlcad |
so you don't
have to maintain a separate list that'll eventually be out of sync
when someone adds a new lib and doesn't notice the DEPS
var |
| 20:51.29 |
brlcad |
it'd always
be perfectly in sync |
| 20:51.39 |
``Erik |
spoze I
coulda tried that, and did sed-fu to strip it down *shrug* but if I
did that, then people who're over-verbose in attaching libraries
would cause a LOT of duplicate computation |
| 20:52.16 |
``Erik |
<--
already annoyed with the amount of replication of computation with
the hand-minimized list |
| 20:53.22 |
brlcad |
replication? |
| 20:54.56 |
``Erik |
yeah... if I
do 'make depends' in, say, mged... rt->bn->bu->tcl,
tk->tcl, so tcl gets two passes |
| 20:54.58 |
brlcad |
if you need
to rebuild mged and be portably sure, it's got to walk the
dependency hierarchy for each ldadd lib .. |
| 20:55.28 |
brlcad |
hmm.. sounds
like you need to build up the list of what to do before actually
doing it |
| 20:55.38 |
``Erik |
I was half
tempted to give each dir an "am I built?" target and stopping if
that's yes |
| 20:56.00 |
``Erik |
that's one
way, but to be portable across makes, ... :/ |
| 20:56.56 |
brlcad |
sure across
makes |
| 20:56.56 |
brlcad |
you do the
same traversal you have in depends now .. but make it do two walks
.. just not runnning depends on the first walk |
| 20:57.52 |
``Erik |
mebbe in the
future... |
| 20:58.39 |
brlcad |
it is, but
the hooks they provide should make it work |
| 20:58.47 |
brlcad |
i fixed a
handful of things, there still another problem? |
| 20:58.59 |
brlcad |
could have
disabled more, but I tried to only disable minimal |
| 20:59.07 |
``Erik |
how'd you
disable it? |
| 20:59.31 |
brlcad |
Makefile.am
cppflags to turn stuff on/off |
| 21:00.05 |
brlcad |
right |
| 21:00.15 |
brlcad |
i commited a
fix for that yesterday |
| 21:00.18 |
``Erik |
libdm/dm_obj.c |
| 21:00.25 |
``Erik |
I updated
today, it's still breakin' O.o |
| 21:00.27 |
brlcad |
at least I
thought I did |
| 21:00.43 |
``Erik |
(also don't
remember seeing a cia msg) |
| 21:01.19 |
brlcad |
huh, that's
odd |
| 21:02.05 |
brlcad |
hrm, maybe
the commit errored/timed out and I didn't notice |
| 21:03.58 |
brlcad |
ahh, yeah,
something happened |
| 21:03.59 |
brlcad |
M
pngconf.h |
| 21:04.17 |
brlcad |
probably
queried for a pass and I didn't notice or something |
| 21:06.29 |
``Erik |
that's the
included png... I'm trying to use the system png |
| 21:07.14 |
``Erik |
like guard
the setjmp in bu.h and make sure png.h is included before
bu.h |
| 21:07.27 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/pngconf.h: disable the linux
setjmp.h double-inclusion protection (at least for now) on the
assumption that we will get the same setjmp.h and this won't be a
problem. add a note that this was modified by us for
BRL-CAD. |
| 21:07.38 |
``Erik |
since the png
fucktards can't figure out how to guard headers right
*cougH* |
| 21:07.46 |
brlcad |
pngconf.h is
installed on the system? |
| 21:08.03 |
``Erik |
yes$ ls -l
/usr/include/pngconf.h |
| 21:08.03 |
``Erik |
lrwxrwxrwx 1
root root 18 Aug 11 12:34 /usr/include/pngconf.h ->
libpng12/pngconf.h |
| 21:08.24 |
``Erik |
rhel64 on an
opteron |
| 21:08.47 |
``Erik |
shuffling
headers and gaurding in bu.h sound about right? I can take care of
it while you do tcl |
| 21:09.05 |
brlcad |
could work it
out so that png.h is just included before our stuff -- it should be
actually |
| 21:09.13 |
``Erik |
'k, I'll go
about that |
| 21:09.17 |
``Erik |
hurry up and
finish tcl :D |
| 21:09.32 |
brlcad |
common.h
-> system headers -> public interface headers -> private
headers |
| 21:09.37 |
``Erik |
so i can
unhack regionfix.c and proe-g.c on my thing |
| 21:09.42 |
brlcad |
png.h is a
system header |
| 21:10.18 |
brlcad |
another fix
would be to just set -DPNG_SETJMP_NOT_SUPPORTED |
| 21:10.31 |
brlcad |
and it skips
it altogether |
| 21:12.13 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: pull system headers
up ahead of our headers |
| 21:14.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: pull system headers
up ahead of our headers |
| 22:02.23 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 23:37.14 |
louipc |
more |
| 23:37.20 |
louipc |
erk |
| 00:17.20 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad.spec.in: clean up header, add
footer, remove reference to GPL as the license |
| 00:22.34 |
Maloeran |
There are
platforms where longjmp() is not supported? |
| 00:23.19 |
Maloeran |
Assuming it's
related to the PNG_SETJMP_NOT_SUPPORTED switch |
| 00:44.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (Makefile.am cvs2cl.pl): remove unused
ChangeLog processing perl script (rcs2log is used
instead) |
| 00:45.10 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (configure.ac Makefile.am
configure.in): rename configure.in to configure.ac |
| 00:50.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/legal/ (Makefile.am gfdl.txt gpl.txt):
remove the GPL and GFDL licenses. they are no longer used. all GPL
code was relicensed to LGPL, all documentation under the
dual-licensing GPL/GFDL were relicensed under the BDL (BSD
documentation license). |
| 00:58.40 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: make .in and .ac files use the
autoconf major mode instead of Makefile |
| 02:08.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: remove the
Makefile.defs since enigma has it's own configure and will
otherwise mess with AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS |
| 02:31.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: let .ac and .in files use the
specified indent instead of forcing 8 |
| 03:31.04 |
*** join/#brlcad bobbens_
(n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) |
| 03:42.28 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168057882.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:49.54 |
*** join/#brlcad bobbens
(n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) |
| 04:32.21 |
*** join/#brlcad zap
(n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:42.25 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 05:13.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: recognize lexer and parser
files |
| 05:14.35 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: recognize lexer and parser files,
keep mode and tab-width first in the variable list in case
variables/values is ever customized |
| 05:34.16 |
brlcad |
and damn old
autoreconf/automake -f for obliterating COPYING and INSTALL files,
presumptiously putting in default GPL verbage |
| 06:14.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add recognition of PD for public
domain works, remove the GPL and GFDL sections. |
| 06:19.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: PD work else statement was
swapped, fixed. |
| 06:32.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/configure.ac: test application of
PD headers, add a footer too along with detail that enigma comes
from the Crypt Breaker's Workbench software |
| 06:33.06 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/enigma.1: Joerg spelled CBW
incorrectly -- the proper project name is the Crypt Breaker's
Workbench (this mistake has been impressively spread around the
world now). |
| 06:36.06 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: sources |
| 06:40.54 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/ (awf.in brlman.in): add local
variables footer |
| 06:43.44 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/configure.ac: add a header and
footer |
| 06:49.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (126 files in 18 dirs): give adrt
some distinctiveness in the header |
| 07:00.14 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (AUTHORS INSTALL ChangeLog NEWS
COPYING): initial basic documentation files to appease gnu
autotools |
| 07:01.53 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (Makefile.am build.sh): add new
basic doc files, remove the old build.sh script |
| 07:03.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/.cvsignore: ignore autotools
turds |
| 07:09.58 |
*** join/#brlcad bjork__
(n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 07:16.45 |
*** join/#brlcad cad38
(n=47d2214e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:16.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: er, so it is
SOURCE |
| 08:19.23 |
*** join/#brlcad sebastienbailard
(n=sbailard@CPE000d88ba7a3b-CM001371169626.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 08:19.30 |
sebastienbailard |
Evening
all. |
| 08:20.27 |
sebastienbailard |
Is Sean
in? |
| 08:20.46 |
sebastienbailard |
brlcad: Is
Sean in? |
| 08:30.19 |
brlcad |
hello |
| 08:31.51 |
sebastienbailard |
Sean, is that
you? I'm that fellow with RepRap who pestered you some time
abck |
| 08:31.56 |
sebastienbailard |
back,
rather. |
| 08:34.06 |
sebastienbailard |
Do you
remember our exchange of emails? |
| 08:36.42 |
sebastienbailard |
The reason I
came into this channel was to ask if it was possible to use brlcad
as an engine in blender to give blender more cad
features. |
| 08:37.28 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 08:37.33 |
sebastienbailard |
It's a stupid
question I suppose, but it's one that's been rattling in my head as
I do the dishes and so on. |
| 08:37.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 08:37.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
change the way COPYING and INSTALL are protected from being
clobbered by |
| 08:37.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
automake's stupid behavior of overwriting our files with generic
GNU content. |
| 08:37.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of saving a backup to a file in the aux dir, save the
contents of the |
| 08:37.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: file
to memory (that is even preserved across internal restarts).
restore as |
| 08:37.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
needed if/when the content is clobbered. |
| 08:37.53 |
brlcad |
I get a lot
of e-mails.. your name is familiar but not the exact messages, I'd
have to pull them up |
| 08:38.08 |
brlcad |
it's
certainly possible, anything is possible with code ;) |
| 08:38.12 |
sebastienbailard |
I'd just came
in to yammer. I'm working on the 3D printer thing. |
| 08:38.28 |
brlcad |
*but*.. it
would be rather complex |
| 08:38.52 |
sebastienbailard |
This is true.
I'd have to bribe the interested devs with a 3D
printer. |
| 08:38.53 |
brlcad |
if only
because blender's current geometry interface is rather
complex |
| 08:39.14 |
brlcad |
and the
entire modeling methodology isn't geared towards cad/cam or solid
modeling |
| 08:39.26 |
sebastienbailard |
I
realize. |
| 08:39.54 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 08:40.19 |
brlcad |
there's
nothing in the gui that is going to prevent creation of degenerate
geometry |
| 08:40.32 |
sebastienbailard |
The reason I
was wondering is that folk are working on porting a 2D cad program
into the modeling program ArtOfIllusion. |
| 08:41.08 |
brlcad |
qcad? |
| 08:41.29 |
sebastienbailard |
Archimedes.
It's an architectural cad. |
| 08:41.32 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 08:42.09 |
sebastienbailard |
<PROTECTED> |
| 08:43.43 |
sebastienbailard |
I'm not sure
if the blender devs would be interested. |
| 08:44.29 |
sebastienbailard |
Or the BRLCAD
devs for that matter. |
| 08:44.54 |
brlcad |
i'm
interested in most developments that involve BRL-CAD ;) |
| 08:45.19 |
sebastienbailard |
Well, I'm
going to pester the blender devs a bit. I think we may want a
parametric cad tool though. |
| 08:45.42 |
brlcad |
but that
said, there are limits -- e.g. I wouldn't be inclined to integrate
with Blender -- they're just not geared for solid modeling in the
least, it would cause so many problems |
| 08:46.13 |
sebastienbailard |
That's
fair. |
| 08:46.19 |
brlcad |
I mean, I
wouldn't object to someone else trying -- I'd certainly support
them and help with the brl-cad side of things |
| 08:46.49 |
sebastienbailard |
I didn't
think it was a good idea, but I didn't know the answer to the
question. |
| 08:47.04 |
brlcad |
the goal,
though, is akin to trying to use Maya for CAD
purposes.. |
| 08:47.15 |
brlcad |
it's just ..
problematic on so many levels |
| 08:47.46 |
sebastienbailard |
That's
fair. |
| 08:48.11 |
sebastienbailard |
The MIT fab
lab folk are using blender in lieu of a real CAD
program. |
| 08:48.25 |
brlcad |
it's frankly
be easier to integrate with archimedes, even with them being a java
code and there needing to be some network interface or jni layer
;) |
| 08:48.51 |
brlcad |
or extract
the blender gui library and use that to build a cad
interace |
| 08:48.55 |
sebastienbailard |
The only
problem is that archimedes is 2D cad. |
| 08:49.01 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 08:49.36 |
sebastienbailard |
There's a
fellow who wrote a free 3D cad program in visual c++ for windows.
I'll talk to him. |
| 08:50.17 |
sebastienbailard |
Well, thank
for the well reasoned answer. |
| 08:50.49 |
sebastienbailard |
And tell me
if you ever want to borrow an extruder head to make a 3D
printer. |
| 08:51.13 |
brlcad |
on that
similar note, if yourself or others want to make those kinds of
improvements to brl-cad directly .. the project is rather open to
new developers ;) |
| 08:51.36 |
brlcad |
heh, will do
:) |
| 08:51.51 |
sebastienbailard |
I was
thinking of inviting you to take an informal look at our java
driver code, actually. :) |
| 08:52.41 |
brlcad |
do you
directly interface with a particular 3d printer? |
| 08:53.03 |
sebastienbailard |
Yes. The gpl
self replicating one we're building at RepRap.org. |
| 08:53.45 |
sebastienbailard |
It's not
self-replicating _yet_. That will be the 1.0 release. |
| 08:54.17 |
brlcad |
"it *will*
[emphasis mine] be able to make copies of itself" |
| 08:54.31 |
sebastienbailard |
We're aiming
for 2008. |
| 08:54.41 |
sebastienbailard |
This is how
far we've gotten. |
| 08:54.50 |
sebastienbailard |
http://reprap.blogspot.com/ |
| 08:55.09 |
brlcad |
heck for
$400, I'd buy one .. |
| 08:55.38 |
sebastienbailard |
Keep an eye
out for the announcement of the loaner machines. |
| 08:55.59 |
sebastienbailard |
We won't be
selling them for a while. But we will be sending out loaner
machines. |
| 08:56.31 |
sebastienbailard |
People who
happen to have a populated PCB board, steppers, and a reel of
filament get on the short list. |
| 08:57.20 |
brlcad |
curious, how
are you currently creating/managing geometry |
| 08:57.46 |
brlcad |
presumably
you have a geometry importer of some sort or a geometry format of
your own |
| 08:57.56 |
sebastienbailard |
STL slicing.
I think adrian is working on figuring out support material geometry
right now. |
| 08:58.10 |
sebastienbailard |
I don't know
what we're going to do for DXF importing. |
| 08:58.34 |
brlcad |
hm, "ew"
:) |
| 08:58.46 |
sebastienbailard |
It's a
"standard". |
| 08:59.14 |
brlcad |
"the thing so
great about standards is that there are so many to choose
from" |
| 08:59.43 |
brlcad |
stl is just
the lowest common denominator for explicit factized geometry,
otherwise retains no topological information |
| 08:59.49 |
sebastienbailard |
Pretty much.
I say that to myself everytime I want metric drill
bits. |
| 09:00.09 |
sebastienbailard |
I'm somewhat
familiar with stl's lack of virtues. |
| 09:00.24 |
sebastienbailard |
It happens to
be the standard data interchange format in RP. |
| 09:00.50 |
brlcad |
RP? |
| 09:00.58 |
sebastienbailard |
rapid
prototyping. |
| 09:01.02 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 09:01.17 |
brlcad |
i was stuck
on "RR" :) |
| 09:01.28 |
sebastienbailard |
They bitch
about stl, but that's what they use. |
| 09:02.15 |
brlcad |
yeah, we've
sent some of our models off to a RP shop nearby, stl was the
easiest to extract for them |
| 09:03.02 |
brlcad |
seems that
there are so many better formats though, especially given that it's
being turned into effectively rasterized layers when given to the
printer |
| 09:04.19 |
sebastienbailard |
Hmm... |
| 09:04.32 |
sebastienbailard |
What's your
cost / cubic inch? |
| 09:06.43 |
brlcad |
for this
particular shop, there as no cost to us because we have mutually
aligned interests |
| 09:07.06 |
brlcad |
but then our
only interactions to date have just been mostly demos and
testing |
| 09:07.40 |
brlcad |
i'm not
familiar with what they charge otherwise |
| 09:07.44 |
brlcad |
at least I
don't recall |
| 09:08.27 |
sebastienbailard |
Ah well.
Their business model may change a bit. |
| 09:10.13 |
brlcad |
they're not
commercial, so not readily influenced by industry change .. they
serve specific needs/users ;) |
| 09:10.32 |
sebastienbailard |
Hmm.. |
| 09:11.17 |
brlcad |
that said,
that's an industry that really could use change |
| 09:11.30 |
brlcad |
it is overly
expensive atm |
| 09:12.03 |
sebastienbailard |
Pretty much.
But the fab@home guys have shown how cheap you can do
it. |
| 09:12.17 |
sebastienbailard |
They have a
working machine at USD$2.5k. |
| 09:14.53 |
brlcad |
is that you
in the video giving a presentation? |
| 09:14.58 |
sebastienbailard |
Nope. |
| 09:15.11 |
sebastienbailard |
Vik Oliver
probably. |
| 09:15.24 |
brlcad |
yeah,
vik |
| 09:16.12 |
brlcad |
so do you
know what exactly is fed to the RP machine for a given layer
data-wise? |
| 09:16.42 |
sebastienbailard |
I'm not sure.
I still need to crawl through the driver code. |
| 09:17.30 |
brlcad |
there would
definitely be some great potential for direct collaboration
there |
| 09:17.45 |
sebastienbailard |
Do you want
to take a look at it then? |
| 09:17.51 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
support for various geometry format is pretty extensive (including
nearly full dxf support) |
| 09:18.17 |
sebastienbailard |
I had a sense
of that. |
| 09:18.57 |
sebastienbailard |
Do you think
we could just pull out some libraries? |
| 09:19.41 |
brlcad |
as well as a
standardized ray-tracing engine for converting models to something
like a raster model, or a volumetric model, or layer by layer via
CSG, etc |
| 09:20.44 |
sebastienbailard |
I'll mention
it to the 2-3 guys who know what they're talking about. |
| 09:20.48 |
brlcad |
the core
ray-tracing engine is readily extractable or usable as-is though it
processes brl-cad's geometry format at that lower level |
| 09:21.30 |
brlcad |
there's work
under way to turn our several dozen converters into a coherent
API/library --the code is fairly well-contained per geometry
format |
| 09:22.12 |
sebastienbailard |
I did get the
sense that BRL CAD was rigourously modularized. |
| 09:22.22 |
sebastienbailard |
Do you have
3ds support? |
| 09:22.43 |
brlcad |
currently,
all of the converters are stand-alone commands that can be piped
together and used with other utilities |
| 09:23.02 |
brlcad |
no, 3ds
support isn't there |
| 09:23.24 |
sebastienbailard |
Ah. I
see. |
| 09:23.32 |
brlcad |
several of
the 3d geometry formats that aren't relevant to solid modeling
specifically haven't been looked into |
| 09:24.15 |
sebastienbailard |
That's
reasonable. |
| 09:25.37 |
sebastienbailard |
Ah well, I
need to sign off, if I'm to get enough sleep. |
| 09:26.08 |
sebastienbailard |
Thank you for
the explanation. |
| 09:28.19 |
brlcad |
a list of the
converters |
| 09:28.20 |
sebastienbailard |
programmable? |
| 09:28.23 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 09:28.26 |
brlcad |
not that
kind |
| 09:28.38 |
brlcad |
a list of the
converters if you're interested, uploading now |
| 09:30.33 |
sebastienbailard |
Ah. I found
a table. |
| 09:30.52 |
brlcad |
basic
overview: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 09:31.04 |
brlcad |
converters:
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg |
| 09:31.38 |
sebastienbailard |
I'm looking
at it. |
| 09:32.35 |
sebastienbailard |
My colleague
asserts that dxf is a 2d data format. Is that correct? |
| 09:33.13 |
brlcad |
dxf has 2d
and 3d entities |
| 09:33.24 |
sebastienbailard |
That's what I
thought. |
| 09:33.37 |
brlcad |
we initially
only supported 3d dxf files |
| 09:34.11 |
sebastienbailard |
I spent a
couple hours getting this one toolpath program to work, turns out
it does 2D DXF. |
| 09:34.17 |
brlcad |
which are
actually rather common if you're in the solid modeling and/or cad
industry and are actually looking at a model of, say, some
part |
| 09:34.37 |
brlcad |
e.g. if you
made a sphere in blender, and exported dxf, it'll be a 3d dxf
entity |
| 09:34.43 |
sebastienbailard |
So 3D dxf
files are very common, right? |
| 09:34.52 |
brlcad |
depends on
the industry |
| 09:35.04 |
sebastienbailard |
My colleague
must not work in that industry. |
| 09:35.16 |
brlcad |
in the
domains that tend to care less about 3d, it's a lot less
common |
| 09:35.35 |
brlcad |
like if it is
a bunch of drawings of a building.. drawings are mostly useless
;) |
| 09:35.48 |
sebastienbailard |
Well. we're
not printing buildings. |
| 09:35.52 |
sebastienbailard |
That's
another guy. |
| 09:36.18 |
sebastienbailard |
UCLA or USC
or something. |
| 09:36.30 |
brlcad |
we actually
import 2D dxf into brl-cad directly, where we have support for 2D
sketch entities .. which can of course be extruded into a 3d solid
object |
| 09:37.08 |
sebastienbailard |
hmm... |
| 09:37.33 |
sebastienbailard |
Hey, you
don't know of any foo-> gcode programs out there do
you? |
| 09:37.42 |
brlcad |
actually... |
| 09:39.09 |
brlcad |
yeah, I do ..
one of brl-cad's former devs has been quite busy working on some
new CAM software that generates gcode |
| 09:39.09 |
sebastienbailard |
Does it use
opencascade? |
| 09:39.18 |
brlcad |
no, it's
entirely homegrown from scratch |
| 09:39.20 |
sebastienbailard |
What would it
be? |
| 09:39.27 |
brlcad |
Twingy: wake
up |
| 09:39.43 |
sebastienbailard |
I've spent
rather a while looking for that kind of tool. |
| 09:40.38 |
sebastienbailard |
Do you have a
link in the meanwhile? |
| 09:42.34 |
brlcad |
~gcam is a
the open source GNU Computer-Aided Machingin project, developed by
Justin Shumaker, for supporting basic CNC mills by directly
exporting g-code to your favorite CNC driver application. See
http://gcam.js.cx/ for
details. |
| 09:42.36 |
ibot |
okay,
brlcad |
| 09:42.59 |
sebastienbailard |
doesn't
import yet. |
| 09:43.07 |
sebastienbailard |
Unless it's
changed since last night. |
| 09:43.33 |
sebastienbailard |
I'll
check. |
| 09:43.35 |
brlcad |
yeah, he's
not too big on collaboration or using other people's stuff ..
:) |
| 09:43.49 |
sebastienbailard |
Some folk are
like that. |
| 09:43.58 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 09:44.21 |
sebastienbailard |
There's
another open source printer project out there,
fab@home. |
| 09:44.57 |
brlcad |
shame too,
because he really can churn out good stuff useful to others and
fast when he puts his mind to it -- several of his projects would
have taken off with collaboration |
| 09:45.21 |
brlcad |
but then ..
he gets them to where he wanted them for his purpose, then gets
bored and moves on to something else .. |
| 09:45.38 |
sebastienbailard |
Well, if he
ever gets stl and dxf importing going, he'll be
popular. |
| 09:45.52 |
sebastienbailard |
Atleast with
the diy cnc crowd. |
| 09:48.09 |
brlcad |
course he
also picked a project name that conflicts with others that have
existed longer, but in all fairness I think they're mostly dead
projects (like g[tk web]cam[era]) |
| 09:48.44 |
sebastienbailard |
I know of 2,
maybe three other free cam progams out there actively being
developed. |
| 09:50.19 |
brlcad |
in the big
scheme of things, brl-cad's actually probably still closest to
being a useful cam system just due to all of the attention to the
details required for solid modeling and data management that others
lack -- just without a user interface exposing that
functionality |
| 09:51.01 |
sebastienbailard |
I think
toolpath generation can get a little complicated... |
| 09:52.48 |
brlcad |
yeah, it can
-- which is also another reason it's so important to actually work
with solid geometry that provides geometric assurances |
| 09:53.23 |
sebastienbailard |
I think there
would be a lot of interest in that application, if you were to
create it. |
| 09:54.07 |
brlcad |
else you end
up really just wasting so much time on issues that are technically
np-complete and rather impractically unsolvable for the generic
case, where water-tight/crack-free solids matter instead of polygon
soup |
| 09:54.59 |
sebastienbailard |
I think I
follow. |
| 09:55.02 |
brlcad |
there would
be, but it's outside of our domain given our focus is heavily on 3D
solid modeling for CAD analysis purposes, not concept, design, or
machining purposes |
| 09:55.38 |
brlcad |
each one of
those purposes is an entire CAD industry with major players
;) |
| 09:55.52 |
sebastienbailard |
As a hobby
fabricator, it's a gap/ Not necessarily one brlcad has to fill,
but a gap. |
| 09:56.17 |
brlcad |
it's the
lower right corner of http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 09:58.33 |
sebastienbailard |
Hmm... |
| 09:58.39 |
brlcad |
hm, though
how RP exactly falls into that particular diagram is misleading
(and unlisted) .. don't think it'd be contiguous, or at least not
to appropriate scale |
| 09:59.02 |
sebastienbailard |
We're doing
the cottage industry thing. |
| 09:59.48 |
brlcad |
the
"purposes" I was referring to are the dashed line boxes |
| 10:00.08 |
sebastienbailard |
Right.
Sorry. |
| 10:02.34 |
sebastienbailard |
Well, I need
to sleep. Drop me a line if you start crawling through our code or
something. |
| 10:02.44 |
brlcad |
sounds
good |
| 10:02.49 |
brlcad |
is it all
java, or a mix? |
| 10:03.04 |
sebastienbailard |
Java, with
some c for the PICs. |
| 10:03.18 |
brlcad |
k, thought I
heard mention of C code in the presentation |
| 10:03.55 |
sebastienbailard |
We're not
actively courting developers, but if your start submitting
patches... |
| 10:04.21 |
brlcad |
I appreciate
the thought, and likewise |
| 10:04.39 |
sebastienbailard |
Maybe after
the 1.0 release. |
| 10:04.46 |
sebastienbailard |
Take
care. |
| 10:04.56 |
brlcad |
a
pleasure |
| 10:05.02 |
*** part/#brlcad sebastienbailard
(n=sbailard@CPE000d88ba7a3b-CM001371169626.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 10:13.05 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am enigma/COPYING
enigma/INSTALL): no longer generating COPYING.backup and
INSTALL.backup |
| 10:15.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (COPYING INSTALL): gah, revert
retarded GNUism clobbering of INSTALL and COPYING, replacing the
the annoying presumptuous GPL and overly verbse installation
instructions. |
| 10:31.14 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-61.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:50.04 |
*** join/#brlcad cad72
(n=54456272@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:33.53 |
Twingy |
wtf? wake up
at 4:30 AM? weirdo |
| 14:33.44 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168057882.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:40.48 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754251.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:48.58 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168057882.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:49.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 18:59.03 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-61.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:33.20 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/Formats.csv: importer/exporter
table, based on the conversion slide brlcad@ prepared. |
| 20:05.59 |
brlcad |
keen |
| 20:06.42 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 20:20.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 20:20.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: If
told not to build OpenNURBS and cannot find one installed, do not
fail. |
| 20:20.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
"Chomp" the surrounding whitespace on the OPENNURBS variable so
"x$OPENNURBS" |
| 20:20.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: will
resolve to "x" instead of "x ". |
| 20:22.30 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Only include
src/other/opennurbs in the dependancy list if actually building
OpenNURBs. |
| 20:38.33 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/Makefile.am: need
libz's cppflags |
| 20:45.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: include Formats.csv in
the dist |
| 21:05.26 |
``Erik |
http://www.smbc-comics.com/ |
| 21:07.21 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: fi typo |
| 21:17.48 |
``Erik |
awhoops |
| 21:18.55 |
``Erik |
(for some
reason, my mac is making me hold the escape key for like half a
second before accepting it, it's totally mucking up my vim
usage) |
| 21:19.51 |
brlcad |
Activity
Monitor show anything? |
| 21:20.39 |
``Erik |
nope |
| 21:20.45 |
``Erik |
and it only
seems to be in X |
| 21:23.22 |
``Erik |
lo and
behold, it does |
| 21:23.48 |
``Erik |
*sigh* it's a
mac, it's not supposed to do shit like that, 'restart' and 'reboot'
are supposed to be alien concepts :( |
| 21:24.42 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 21:26.32 |
brlcad |
``Erik: they
allow it on X11 so the linux/unix weenies feel more
comfortable |
| 21:28.28 |
dtidrow |
you mean the
Windows weenies |
| 21:29.00 |
``Erik |
heh, I'm more
used to sun and bsd o.O reboots are only for certain kinds of
kernel upgrades, hw failure on shitty hw, or catastrophic hw
failure (like 'nuke' or 'massive meteor') on real
machines |
| 21:29.11 |
dtidrow |
yeah |
| 21:29.53 |
dtidrow |
haven't
rebooted this box in two months, and that was due to a power outage
that drained the UPS |
| 21:29.57 |
``Erik |
(opposed to
linux where ya reboot every other week because 2.6.18a4 was
released, or windows where you reboot because you moved your
mouse...) |
| 21:30.02 |
dtidrow |
10os[Linux
2.6.11-6mdksmp i686] 10cpu[2 x AMD Athlon(tm) Processor @ 1.67GHz]
10mem[Physical : 786MB/2026MB Free] 10disk[Total : 44.58GB/494.87GB
Free] 10video[GeForce 6800 Ultra] 10sound[0: EMU10K1 - Sound
Blaster Live!] |
| 21:30.31 |
dtidrow |
heh - only if
you like chasing the latest upgrades |
| 21:30.48 |
dtidrow |
I haven't
seen a real need to upgrade in a while |
| 21:31.34 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.42 |
dtidrow |
though I've
been thinking about perhaps trying out another distro instead of
Mandrake/Mandriva here |
| 21:31.52 |
``Erik |
I wish I had
real uptime :( |
| 21:32.14 |
``Erik |
I had a p75
with just over 400 days... and last job, a few suns with 1400
something days |
| 21:33.07 |
dtidrow |
p75 for a
firewall? |
| 21:33.26 |
``Erik |
no, web/mail
server |
| 21:33.58 |
dtidrow |
well, as long
as you don't put a lot of load on it, I guess |
| 21:34.07 |
``Erik |
it takes
load |
| 21:34.23 |
dtidrow |
throttled by
b/w, then? |
| 21:34.27 |
``Erik |
*shrug*
usually it stays below 1 unless a lot of people hit the wiki
(stupid bots) |
| 21:34.29 |
``Erik |
no, fat
pipe |
| 21:34.55 |
``Erik |
lean pages,
almost no graphics at all, and all the html (outside of the wiki)
was hand written, not the 8k of comment and div tag shit you see on
lame sites |
| 21:35.03 |
dtidrow |
what's 'fat'
these days, anyway? |
| 21:35.13 |
``Erik |
I think it's
on a t3 |
| 21:35.14 |
dtidrow |
ah, that
helps :-) |
| 21:35.36 |
dtidrow |
T3 is
45Mbps? |
| 21:35.39 |
``Erik |
the pipe
outruns the 10baseT card in it *shrug* |
| 21:35.42 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 21:35.50 |
dtidrow |
ah |
| 21:36.01 |
dtidrow |
was thinking
it was a home-based system |
| 21:36.07 |
``Erik |
5.6 megs/sec,
and it's got a shoddy isa 10baseT |
| 21:36.51 |
``Erik |
my 850mhz
home box lost the power supply a couple weekends ago, so my
'experiment' box is doing that duty :( |
| 21:36.55 |
dtidrow |
couldn't you
drop a nice 3com 100bT PCI card into it? |
| 21:37.08 |
``Erik |
in what, the
p75? |
| 21:37.10 |
dtidrow |
yeah |
| 21:37.13 |
``Erik |
why? |
| 21:37.22 |
dtidrow |
to better
match the T3 |
| 21:37.37 |
dtidrow |
or does it
have the T3 card in it? |
| 21:37.50 |
``Erik |
it gets daily
backups, when the fans seize up and the machine cooks, it'll get
chucked in the garbage and I'll find another place to put the name
and page |
| 21:38.08 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 21:38.37 |
dtidrow |
does a p75
even ned fans? ;-) |
| 21:38.39 |
dtidrow |
need |
| 21:38.54 |
``Erik |
the machine's
name is 'phoenix', it supplanted 'lazarus'... both were dead
machines that were donated to a linux users club, made to work, put
in a friendly isps' corner, and that was that... |
| 21:39.29 |
``Erik |
depends on
how cold the room is and how big the heat sink is :D |
| 21:39.45 |
dtidrow |
yeah, I've
got a bunch of old hardware collected from various parking lot
'swap meets' at NOVALUG meetings :-) |
| 21:40.12 |
dtidrow |
if the fans
die, put it outside (at least until spring) ;-) |
| 21:40.27 |
dtidrow |
should keep
it nice and cool.... |
| 21:40.29 |
``Erik |
<-- was
heavily involved in the southern missouri linux users club, even
after seing the light and going the way of bsd :) |
| 21:40.34 |
``Erik |
seeing |
| 21:40.47 |
dtidrow |
bsd is
fringe |
| 21:40.59 |
``Erik |
fbsd rocks my
socks off |
| 21:41.09 |
``Erik |
and is a lot
less fringe than ya'd think... it's just not... well...
marketted.. |
| 21:53.03 |
*** join/#brlcad pcman
(n=524c1dd7@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:08.04 |
*** join/#brlcad pcman
(n=manoliu@82.76.29.215) |
| 23:04.41 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 23:15.19 |
louipc |
pity. I was
considering using fbsd but I'd like to keep my socks |
| 23:30.09 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:35.41 |
brlcad |
mm..
food |
| 23:39.21 |
louipc |
bbq
ribs |
| 00:15.20 |
``Erik |
if .igs is
IGES, you have to use iges-g to convert the IGES file to a BRL-CAD
.g database file |
| 00:16.30 |
``Erik |
and if you do
iges-g to amke a .g file, then you can do g-dxf to make a .dxf
file |
| 02:56.12 |
brlcad |
SWAT: in
addition to what ``Erik said, yes it is possible to have a elements
in an IGES file that are either custom extensions by that
commercial tool, or perhaps 2D elements that brl-cad wouldn't
otherwise care about (since we strongly focus on solid
modeling) |
| 02:57.23 |
brlcad |
once you have
a brl-cad .g file, you can open that with mged to view a wireframe
and ray-trace images of any viewpoint, saving the images to files
and using your favorite image viewer software to them
print |
| 09:59.35 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-61.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:49.43 |
SWAT |
hmmm, still
something goes wrong. The .dxf files are empty and the .g files
probably also contain errors. Could you take a look at it?
http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5029/ |
| 11:25.28 |
SWAT |
will brlcad
ever get an interface like qcad or autocad? |
| 11:36.23 |
clock_ |
no |
| 12:16.06 |
SWAT |
any idea on
what goes wrong when I convert the .igs file to .g and
.dxf? |
| 13:53.07 |
``Erik |
did you read
the output of iges-g ? |
| 13:53.45 |
``Erik |
it says that
there was no solid geometry found, just 2d drawings... and it says
that nothing was converted and suggests a way to get your 2d
drawings out of the iges file... |
| 13:54.46 |
``Erik |
down |
| 13:55.20 |
``Erik |
ok, g-dxf
can't do globbing, and you didn't escape it, you gave it a list of
files in the directory as names |
| 13:55.30 |
``Erik |
sorry, all
that whitespace confuzzled me :D |
| 13:55.49 |
``Erik |
do something
like "mged -c testfile.g tops" to get a list of toplevel
objects |
| 13:56.06 |
``Erik |
then do g-dxf
-o testfile.dxf testfile.g <toplevel objects> |
| 14:01.08 |
``Erik |
http://techdigest.tv/pcmaclinux.jpg |
| 14:03.26 |
brlcad |
from the
looks of the first output, there are no 3D solids and no 2D
drawings in that .iges file -- you might try the other suggested
option of -3 for 3D drawings |
| 14:04.15 |
brlcad |
and
specifying * for g-dxf is rather wrong, you have to know/specify
the object name(s) |
| 14:05.24 |
SWAT |
thanks for
the info, I'm going to try them. ``Erik, did you get that picture
from the planet? :) |
| 14:13.41 |
SWAT |
I guess it
starts out by creating a 'good' .g file (I guess I b0rked this up
from the start). The -3 option gives me "No drawing entities and No
view entities". If I try the '-t' flag 0 surfaces are
converted. |
| 14:14.12 |
SWAT |
I'm going to
try and use another .igs file, if you have any thoughts, just say
so, I'm very open to suggestions |
| 14:19.31 |
SWAT |
"Unrecognized
IGES version", could this be the source of the errors? |
| 14:23.25 |
brlcad |
SWAT:
potentially, but the fact that it lists out the entity types found
more indicates that there is "stuff" in there that it finds, just
nothing useful to a 3D solid modeler |
| 14:23.40 |
brlcad |
ideally, it
wants 3D solids |
| 14:24.06 |
brlcad |
what is
generating the iges file? |
| 14:24.14 |
SWAT |
on another
file (when "-t" is used) I get lots of output, among with are:
"WARNING: UV point outside of domain of surface!!!" and
"Convtrimsurfs: Cannot find a point in fu" |
| 14:24.54 |
brlcad |
that's a good
sign, sounds like there are trimmed nurbs surfaces |
| 14:24.55 |
SWAT |
brlcad, I'm
going to be honest, I don't really know. I 'guess' it's software
like SolidWorks or something |
| 14:26.35 |
brlcad |
another issue
could be version compatibility -- brl-cad's support is pretty
comprehensive, but only up to version 4.5 or 5 (forget
exactly) |
| 14:27.08 |
brlcad |
if something
is outputting the handful of entity extensions added since, there
might be issue, though that generally hasn't been an
issue |
| 14:28.18 |
SWAT |
well, my .g
file seems to be 104 bytes big, which means it didn't work
;) |
| 14:28.26 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 14:29.00 |
SWAT |
I wish I
could e-mail you the files, but I can't. Do you have any advice?
(except buying/getting/installing Windows and commercial software
XXX) |
| 14:30.02 |
brlcad |
aside from
sharing the iges file (which would be the most expedient) ..
hmm |
| 14:30.23 |
brlcad |
I don't think
blender has an iges importer iirc do they |
| 14:30.39 |
brlcad |
otherwise you
could try them as an intermediate too |
| 14:31.17 |
brlcad |
did iges-g
produce a 104 byte file after each of the various
options? |
| 14:32.12 |
SWAT |
yes |
| 14:32.48 |
brlcad |
i suggest
trying all the iges-g conversion option combinations just to see,
-n -d -t |
| 14:32.48 |
SWAT |
I can go ask
if they have 'dummy' iges files, but most of it is highly
confidential. |
| 14:33.24 |
SWAT |
I tried all
of them, and the only one that gives me any output that shows me
that there is progress, is the "-t" flag |
| 14:33.38 |
SWAT |
I just love
the commercial/closed-source world.... :-/ |
| 14:33.42 |
brlcad |
if this is
from a commercial CAD sytem, there's going to be an option on the
export to generate an IGES file that we can read almost for
sure |
| 14:34.07 |
brlcad |
iges export
panels are usually riddled with checkboxes ;) |
| 14:34.52 |
SWAT |
and n00bs who
ignore them (just like the great AutoCAD formats) |
| 14:35.13 |
brlcad |
need to check
the box(es) that say export solids/brep/bspline surfaces .. if
there are only drawings and/or 2D entities, you're not going to get
far with brl-cad |
| 14:36.36 |
SWAT |
brlcad,
thanks for the help/advice. What else could I do? (if it contains
drawings and/or 2d entities, just for the sake of
argument) |
| 14:36.48 |
brlcad |
another
possibility would be to simply export to a different file format,
iges is great when it works but a royal pain when it doesn't ..
something more simplified like stl or dxf or ply might be
easier |
| 14:37.28 |
brlcad |
if it
contains only 2D entities, you're going to need a drafting CAD
package .. probably best to export to dxf and import that into qcad
or somesuch |
| 14:37.37 |
SWAT |
iges has
become the new standard for some companies and I guess they are
unwilling to export also to .dxf or whatever (because it's more
work, the bastards) |
| 14:37.49 |
brlcad |
iges is the
"old standard" :) |
| 14:37.53 |
brlcad |
step is the
new standard |
| 14:38.37 |
SWAT |
ah, OK. I
guess it's .stp? And how does brl-cad to with STEP files? (would I
get the same issues as I get now with IGES?) |
| 14:38.49 |
brlcad |
nobody on the
open source side does step yet, though we're probably closest to
having one implemented later this year |
| 14:39.15 |
brlcad |
STEP is even
more complicated that IGES was, but more comprehensive too and more
reliable |
| 14:39.45 |
brlcad |
either way,
though, it's not going to help you today unless you have access to
a commercial cad system |
| 14:40.35 |
SWAT |
hmmm,
crap |
| 14:41.08 |
SWAT |
seeing that
you're channel admin etc., I guess you're the lead developer of
this project? |
| 14:41.39 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 14:42.12 |
SWAT |
since I have
some customers who have this issue, how could we solve
it? |
| 14:42.50 |
SWAT |
I mean, in
what direction should we 'stear' the companies? |
| 14:42.55 |
SWAT |
use .dxf by
default? |
| 14:43.06 |
brlcad |
your best bet
is to probably try different iges export options from whomever is
providing them to you -- going for 4.5 IGES for example and
specifying creation of solids or drawings at least by
default |
| 14:43.39 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
suggest dxf by default |
| 14:44.07 |
brlcad |
step is
really the way to go for full compatibility and reduction of
introduction of modeling error or other information
loss |
| 14:44.31 |
brlcad |
it's pretty
much a fully-preserving format, whereas all of the others
(including iges) aren't necessarily |
| 14:45.15 |
SWAT |
so STEP *is*
already the way to go (it's finished and the format is
open?)? |
| 14:45.36 |
brlcad |
it's
finished, it's an ISO standard |
| 14:45.53 |
SWAT |
:-) |
| 14:46.19 |
brlcad |
it's also a
very complicated and expensive ISO standard and just as
unpublishable as most ISO standards |
| 14:46.39 |
SWAT |
and do you
know if any of the commercial packages are 'mean' and have their
own STEP implementation? (c.q. their own little format, which
quirks) |
| 14:46.52 |
brlcad |
but mostly
irrelevant to "us" as we've already paid for the relevant portions
of the STEP standard (few thousand $$) |
| 14:47.11 |
brlcad |
i've yet to
see that |
| 14:48.06 |
brlcad |
the step
specification actually includes validation and correctness rules
too, it would be rather "difficult" to say the least |
| 14:49.00 |
brlcad |
more likely
is that it might contain some geometry that a given system doesn't
understand/support -- the format itself is sort of the union of all
CAD system formats |
| 14:49.25 |
SWAT |
hmmm, it
almost seems to good to be true |
| 14:49.30 |
brlcad |
so whether
your system cares that there are "dashed 2D line curves" or not
still depends on the converter |
| 14:50.05 |
brlcad |
oh, it's not
too good to be true -- perhaps I'm not conveying just exactly how
"complicated and expensive" it is ;) |
| 14:50.13 |
SWAT |
so now we
have to wait for all the commercial and non-commercial packages to
support STEP and then 'force' everyone to use STEP? |
| 14:50.41 |
brlcad |
iges is
probably 10 times to complexity of dxf which is probably 10 times
the complexity of a simple polygonal format that opengl might
want |
| 14:50.50 |
brlcad |
step is about
10 times more complex than iges |
| 14:51.24 |
brlcad |
most of the
commercial systems already support step -- adoption started in
early 2000's |
| 14:51.49 |
SWAT |
damn, sounds
pretty complex (and complex mostly isn't good). I'm all 'for'
open-standards and open-source (OpenDocument Format is a great
standard) |
| 14:51.55 |
brlcad |
open source
has had zero penetration simply because of the expense of the
standard and nicheness of the market |
| 14:52.36 |
SWAT |
qcad mostly
only supports .dxf (afaik) |
| 14:52.39 |
brlcad |
that and the
fact that there are only a couple open source CAD systems, and
we're by far the most developed in most respects |
| 14:53.05 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg
mentions step briefly |
| 14:54.27 |
SWAT |
I'm pretty
impressed by brl-cad. At first I found it hard to figure out (the
.deb didn't work here), but now I see it has lots of small programs
that are pretty strong on their own. Only the GUI is horrible
(mged) if you compare it to qcad etc.. But that's my
vision |
| 14:54.57 |
brlcad |
yep, that is
a pretty reasonable summary |
| 14:55.24 |
brlcad |
mged's
failings are well known too -- a new/better interface is one of the
top priorities to "fix" |
| 14:55.34 |
``Erik |
the pic was
from another channel... on another network... :) |
| 14:55.36 |
SWAT |
ow great
:) |
| 14:55.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 14:56.01 |
SWAT |
brlcad,
please take a look at autocad/qcad for a gui (and just start with
those and make a better one) |
| 14:56.16 |
brlcad |
most of the
underlying features and power of the geometric modeling engine are
decades beyond (effort-wise) what can be found anywhere else ..
just the modeling interface is currently .. painful. |
| 14:56.30 |
SWAT |
I mean,
Windows had a pretty good gui too, but the menu was horrible (no
HCI at all) |
| 14:56.54 |
brlcad |
autocad/qcad
are drafters .. which actually is only partially relevant to solid
modeling |
| 14:57.01 |
clock_ |
qcad
interface is sometimes horrible as well. |
| 14:57.15 |
clock_ |
Especially
v.1 was |
| 14:57.25 |
clock_ |
like changing
the zoom was a diploma thesis for half an hour |
| 14:57.43 |
SWAT |
yet the
'drafters' are often used (very often, as far as I
know) |
| 14:57.57 |
clock_ |
brlcad: don't
worry, qcad is crap too :) |
| 14:57.57 |
brlcad |
autocad,
pro-engineer, unigraphics, solidworks.. all being taken into
consideration and fairly well known at least by myself and a few
others as to their own strengths and weaknesses |
| 14:58.22 |
SWAT |
brlcad,
before I forget it, I mean, I gave some harsh criticism... Great
work everyone! It's appreciated :) |
| 14:59.01 |
brlcad |
SWAT: it's
alright -- that's part of what's great about open source, being
able to critique, recognize the dificiencies, look at the code, and
fix/improve things :) |
| 14:59.09 |
clock_ |
brlcad: qcad
1.x had some great features like when you save the file, it forgets
all line thicknesses in the layers |
| 14:59.20 |
clock_ |
So if you
want to add a contour line, you get a zero thickness |
| 14:59.41 |
clock_ |
In practice
when you opened a file you had to manually reset all the
thicknesses you planned to work with - great afterburner for
productivity |
| 15:00.31 |
``Erik |
yay, power
supply surgery was successful |
| 15:01.27 |
brlcad |
SWAT: the
main concern is that autocad provides an interface that is more
geared towards concept and design purposes .. which yes, are
heavily 2D drafting-centric for some shops |
| 15:01.41 |
SWAT |
brlcad, yes,
that's the great thing about it. I'm probably going to work on a
pretty big project soon, but I'll just have to see. My time is very
much limited and I just wanted to inquire here and give some
feedback (hopefully good and constructive) |
| 15:02.20 |
brlcad |
the problem
is that the domain of "CAD" as a generic industry is utterly
massive and one must focus resources else you end up with a variety
of useless metiocrity |
| 15:02.39 |
SWAT |
correct |
| 15:02.41 |
brlcad |
SWAT: have
you seen our industry diagram |
| 15:04.13 |
SWAT |
brlcad, not
yet... I just have very basic cad experience (very very basic,
about 120 minutes) |
| 15:05.27 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:06.10 |
brlcad |
from a system
perspective, AutoCAD falls pretty squarely on the CADD
domain |
| 15:06.47 |
brlcad |
something
like ArchiCAD is of course CAAD, a CAM system like GibbsCAM is an
MCAD system |
| 15:07.26 |
clock_ |
CAC |
| 15:07.31 |
clock_ |
Computer
Aided Contraptions |
| 15:07.32 |
brlcad |
Rhino3D is
sort of a CAID system |
| 15:07.35 |
SWAT |
okay, this is
too niche-specific for me. But I guess I know what you
mean |
| 15:08.16 |
brlcad |
solidworks is
a big system that falls more in line with the centralized "CAD"
domain as is unigraphics |
| 15:09.45 |
brlcad |
the dashed
lines indicate the purpose that those systems/markets generally
tend to focus on -- e.g. drafting systems are heavily used for
concept and design, but rarely for analysis and
manufacturing |
| 15:10.06 |
SWAT |
true |
| 15:10.44 |
SWAT |
btw, are you
funded by the US government (I saw the US eagle on the project
website)? |
| 15:11.12 |
clock_ |
SWAT: they
are CAM, Computer Aided Millitary |
| 15:12.44 |
``Erik |
ciad...
computer illiterates aiding military... |
| 15:13.08 |
clock_ |
CIA -
Computer Illiterate Analysis? |
| 15:13.21 |
``Erik |
completely
idiotic asshoel? |
| 15:13.23 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 15:13.32 |
``Erik |
sorry, I'll
go bac to my cage now O:-) |
| 15:13.34 |
``Erik |
back |
| 15:13.44 |
clock_ |
``Erik:
Remember OpenBSD lost funding because criticizing the Iraq
qar |
| 15:13.46 |
clock_ |
war |
| 15:14.02 |
clock_ |
how long do
you think BRL-CAD will have funding when you called CIA Completely
Idiotic Assholes? |
| 15:14.20 |
``Erik |
probably
about as long as it'd have without me shooting my mouth
off... |
| 15:14.51 |
SWAT |
clock_,
harhar, very funny |
| 15:14.54 |
clock_ |
``Erik: now
repeat: "I love Uncle Sam and his American Dream" |
| 15:15.22 |
clock_ |
``Erik: give
me 20 and clean all toilets with your toothbrush :) |
| 15:16.08 |
brlcad |
SWAT: yes,
BRL-CAD comes from the U.S. Army Research Laboratory, developed
there for 20+ years before being turned into open
source |
| 15:16.28 |
clock_ |
``Erik: long
hair is hippie and hippies are enemy of the US National
Interests |
| 15:16.51 |
brlcad |
it continues
to be funded and developed to this day, though the open source side
of things has breathed some new life into developments that ARL
wouldn't have supported |
| 15:17.35 |
clock_ |
SWAT: they
planted some backdoors and trojans into the code and opened it so
hippies now start using it as it's free, design some weapons, and
the trojans copy themselves into the weapons and then DoD will be
able to log in remotely and turn the weapons into cute
tamagotchis |
| 15:20.22 |
clock_ |
brlcad: well
BRL-CAD it's a bit insignificant step in light of the fact that
Russians open sourced their atomic weapons and are now giving them
out to any bypasser :) |
| 15:22.31 |
brlcad |
always going
for the political angle, I see |
| 15:25.17 |
clock_ |
brlcad: is it
possible that BRL-CAD generates data for CNC tooling? |
| 15:26.04 |
clock_ |
brlcad: for
me BRL-CAD is not interesting as a millitary tool, but a tool to
bypass the go-to-work-make-money-go-to-shop-buy-a-consumer-product
loop |
| 15:28.27 |
``Erik |
clock:
provided you write the code to output the appropriate format,
sure... :) |
| 15:28.39 |
``Erik |
like a
g-gcode converter, hhe |
| 15:28.59 |
clock_ |
Hmm write
code, funny |
| 15:29.10 |
``Erik |
(ahhh, shower
fresh, w00t) |
| 15:29.13 |
brlcad |
there is no
g-gcode |
| 15:29.27 |
``Erik |
yet |
| 15:29.40 |
``Erik |
clock is
gonna write us a g-gcode.c :D |
| 15:29.44 |
SWAT |
clock_,
keyword: MS Windows XP and Vista. Go! |
| 15:33.32 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 15:35.06 |
SWAT |
the NSA
helped with the development of XP/Vista. I expected a reply with
'backdoors', 'trojans' etc. etc. etc. |
| 15:35.38 |
brlcad |
he's usually
like a wind-up toy once someone gets him started |
| 15:35.41 |
brlcad |
must be busy
;) |
| 15:37.46 |
brlcad |
for what it's
worth, "BRL-CAD is not interesting as a military tool" for me
either, or most of the people that have ever worked on the project
for that matter .. it's used for many many purposes and is just a
graphics CAD system when it comes down to it |
| 15:38.28 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
weren't those mostly all wigs? :) |
| 15:38.44 |
``Erik |
heh, for the
bald people, sure :D |
| 15:39.15 |
brlcad |
mm. no more
"big wigs" party, that'd be pretty funny today |
| 15:40.11 |
brlcad |
80 |
| 15:40.19 |
brlcad |
80's
mohawk |
| 15:41.02 |
``Erik |
it's hav eto
be a fauxhawk, I'm not shaving the sides of my head... I'm not that
lame :D |
| 15:41.03 |
brlcad |
a bet
particular image-conscious bosses would love seeing you with a two
foot blue spike |
| 15:41.07 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:41.30 |
``Erik |
with enough
jelly, I could make my real hair a hella crazy fauxhawk |
| 15:41.46 |
``Erik |
been a while
since I've dyed my hair blue... *scratches chin* |
| 15:42.16 |
``Erik |
we should
send her to defcon some year... heheehehhe |
| 15:42.34 |
brlcad |
hmm.. i
haven't colored mine approaching two years *gasp* |
| 15:43.21 |
``Erik |
heh, yeah,
uh, I don't think she'd consider that anywhere close to the same
scale as, say, blue or green or purple... :D |
| 15:44.02 |
brlcad |
i think you
should spike it blue, send pjt a picture and ask if you can be a
pointy-haired boss |
| 15:44.09 |
brlcad |
(too) |
| 15:44.14 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:44.20 |
``Erik |
two big
honkin' spikes, one on each side of the head |
| 15:44.27 |
``Erik |
optimus prime
style, yo |
| 15:44.40 |
clock_ |
brlcad: if
you print out some long listing in mged, then press page up, page
down and then type a command, it types the command in front of the
prompt instead of after the prompt. And then it ignores the
command. Isn't this a bug? |
| 15:58.02 |
brlcad |
a
long-standing one, minor annoyance that nobody has bothered trying
to track down |
| 16:00.08 |
``Erik |
is it in the
tracker? |
| 16:01.06 |
brlcad |
maybe, don't
remember |
| 16:04.00 |
brlcad |
either way,
now it's in BUGS |
| 16:04.16 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged command prompt will have the cursor
reset to before the 'mged>' prompt after performing certain
actions (e.g. page up/down) |
| 16:05.45 |
brlcad |
something to
do with the text-area tk widget as mged doesn't specifically have a
page up/down binding |
| 16:06.01 |
brlcad |
at least I
just went looking for it and don't see it |
| 16:10.25 |
``Erik |
still
fighting tcl, I take it? |
| 16:11.53 |
brlcad |
chugging
along |
| 16:12.06 |
brlcad |
it's all
compiling now, but some portability annoyances with pic crap again
now |
| 17:45.48 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:19.53 |
*** join/#brlcad debarshi
(n=rishi@202.141.130.198) |
| 18:20.54 |
debarshi |
What is the
license of BRL-CAD? |
| 18:29.25 |
clock_ |
GPL |
| 18:30.03 |
debarshi |
clock_:
Thanks. |
| 19:00.04 |
SWAT |
right... |
| 19:00.31 |
SWAT |
that
information can't be found on the project page or on sourceforge or
something ;) |
| 19:10.53 |
IriX64 |
pkg_suckin
read error? |
| 19:49.35 |
*** join/#brlcad cad65
(n=c88b730b@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:37.11 |
``Erik |
lgpl with bsd
chucnks (and a couple others iirc0, actually |
| 21:41.46 |
brlcad |
clock_: it's
predominantly LGPL now |
| 21:42.21 |
brlcad |
BSD for the
build system, benchmark suite, testing scripts, a few other utility
scripts, and the documentation |
| 21:44.31 |
brlcad |
which
according to ohloh is about an 80/20 split
percentage-wise |
| 21:51.59 |
``Erik |
huh, neat, a
cvs analyzer |
| 21:54.31 |
``Erik |
pretty easy
to spot 'major events' on that timeline... |
| 21:54.51 |
``Erik |
jra goes to 0
at the start of hell project.. and the move to sf... |
| 21:56.57 |
``Erik |
kinda
unfortunate cvs isn't aware of moving files or silly things like
scripts... someone is overrepresented :D |
| 22:01.41 |
clock_ |
``Erik: svn
is |
| 22:01.54 |
clock_ |
``Erik: I
used first CVS, then Arch, and now SVN on Ronja |
| 22:02.13 |
clock_ |
CVS sucks by
design |
| 22:02.24 |
clock_ |
Arch sucked
at the moment when it was unable to read it's own
archive |
| 22:02.39 |
clock_ |
got trashed
at that moment and replaced by Subversion. |
| 22:02.43 |
``Erik |
svn captures
file moves because it's change set based instead of file
history... |
| 22:02.53 |
``Erik |
but it
doesn't do, say, scriptware monitoring |
| 22:03.44 |
``Erik |
so "find .
-type f | xargs sed -E -i.bak 's/[ \t]+$//'" ends up looking like a
lot of diligent work... |
| 22:05.34 |
``Erik |
I'm also
fairly against restructering organization... generally means it
wasn't thought out in the first place... BRL-CAD warranted one as
it's an ancient project and conventions had changed radically...
:) |
| 22:30.46 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 22:30.55 |
Maloeran |
It's only
when writing the networking demos that I realized it was a pain for
the user to manage the clients, synchronize its own data (
textures, whatever ) |
| 22:31.13 |
Maloeran |
So I shifted
design for the library to take care of everything ; including
user-land data |
| 22:31.21 |
``Erik |
ayup, gotta
make sure the right bits are at the right place at the right
time |
| 22:31.39 |
Maloeran |
Now, it
doesn't even have to care what, how and when clients connect ; work
is just silently distributed |
| 22:31.41 |
``Erik |
if the
planets of your created universe don't align just right, it don't
go |
| 22:32.42 |
Maloeran |
50 days, mmhm
:) |
| 22:33.11 |
``Erik |
50 days is
terminal... the goal should be a fair bit inside of that
:) |
| 22:33.41 |
Maloeran |
Right, I'm
returning to the work output of the first couple months, AI
experiments ( working quite well by the way ) will wait |
| 22:35.02 |
Maloeran |
How's the
wrapper thing coming along? |
| 22:35.15 |
``Erik |
slowly |
| 22:35.17 |
``Erik |
I'm
lazy |
| 22:35.22 |
``Erik |
and
distracted |
| 22:35.31 |
Maloeran |
Ah, so I'm
not the only one :) |
| 22:36.07 |
``Erik |
oh |
| 22:36.12 |
``Erik |
and I got to
write two project plans this week |
| 22:36.26 |
Maloeran |
Sounds great!
Aren't you overflowing with motivation? |
| 22:36.30 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 22:36.46 |
``Erik |
I've already
put forward the idea of putting a jar on my desk and if anyone asks
me a question, they have to put a buck in it |
| 22:37.51 |
``Erik |
librt is
wired into the framework and working ok, adrt is 'mostly' wired in,
extracting triangle info from the csg's is the part I'm working on
now... and the ray fire SHOULD be a trivial thing after
that |
| 22:38.30 |
``Erik |
but once I
have adrt wired in, I'll have to fix the control function to
provide the proper 'golden' shots and a grid |
| 22:38.40 |
Maloeran |
Your
single-ray function is called from multiple threads,
right? |
| 22:38.45 |
``Erik |
no |
| 22:38.49 |
Maloeran |
Oh. |
| 22:38.55 |
``Erik |
right now,
it's all single threaded |
| 22:39.10 |
``Erik |
but I could
easily thread it out somewhere... it's a single shot function,
though |
| 22:39.34 |
Maloeran |
Is it meant
to be threaded? Because I would need to keep track of data specific
to each thread, just some pointer... If it's single threaded, I can
just put that stuff as globals |
| 22:39.53 |
``Erik |
no, at the
moment, I'm thinking straight up single threaded |
| 22:40.19 |
``Erik |
and mebbe, if
it's appropriate, we could do a quick 'by thumb' scalability
exercise... which'd probably be the distributed aspect more than
the threaded aspect |
| 22:42.06 |
Maloeran |
Eh,
scalability and threading for shooting one ray at a time, what a
mess :) |
| 22:42.56 |
``Erik |
well, this
framework is for three reasons |
| 22:43.06 |
``Erik |
to make sure
rayforce produces reasonably correct results |
| 22:43.15 |
``Erik |
and demo how
it can be wired into the 'goal' application... |
| 22:43.24 |
``Erik |
and to prove
at least 5x over adrt |
| 22:43.45 |
Maloeran |
At least 5x
could be tight if you don't give me SSE-packed ray
batches |
| 22:43.52 |
Maloeran |
But you know
that already |
| 22:44.08 |
``Erik |
if it fails
the 5x, we'll start looking why and if adrt was unfairly
advantaged... and go from there *shrug* |
| 22:44.41 |
``Erik |
and
'reasonably' correct is something that'll be a discussion (based on
perliminary results) with leebert and possibly mark |
| 22:45.19 |
``Erik |
if you're
thinking 'function call overhead', I've already put forth the idea
of having a dumby function (just returns) to measure that and
subtract it from both engines times |
| 22:45.26 |
``Erik |
dummy |
| 22:46.01 |
Maloeran |
It's not
really the calling overhead... It's the fact that a
one-ray-at-a-time function discards all optimisation based on the
coherency and locality of rays |
| 22:46.21 |
Maloeran |
Plus of
course the SSE packing |
| 22:46.44 |
Maloeran |
Do you have
any raw numbers on adrt? |
| 22:46.52 |
``Erik |
hm, *shrug*
from eyeball comparisons, you have ntohing to worry
about.. |
| 22:46.54 |
``Erik |
not really
:/ |
| 22:47.14 |
``Erik |
I think I
remember something about 1.2m r/s on a dual 2.4ghz
xeon? |
| 22:47.40 |
Maloeran |
Seriously,
don't under-estimate the huge blow one-ray-a-at-time tracing will
deal... |
| 22:47.56 |
``Erik |
I might be
completely in err, I have a vague recollection of 1.2m, and I THINK
that was on a certain machine... |
| 22:47.58 |
Maloeran |
I see. How
many triangles in there? |
| 22:48.20 |
``Erik |
I d'no, a few
million? triagle number should be a very minor
influence |
| 22:48.45 |
Maloeran |
Triangle
count is a very minor difference as long as I can use my ray
sources to exploit locality... Grah :) |
| 22:49.30 |
``Erik |
like I
said... we'll give it a whack... if the mark isn't met, we'll look
why and try to fair things up a bit :) |
| 22:49.43 |
Maloeran |
1.2m is
first-hit only, right? |
| 22:49.45 |
``Erik |
<-- ain't
trying to jack you, just trying to get the green light with as
little effort as possible |
| 22:49.53 |
``Erik |
um, I think
full shot? might be first hit, I don't recall |
| 22:50.08 |
Maloeran |
There's quite
a difference between the two... :) |
| 22:50.11 |
``Erik |
adrt suffers
from full depth tracing as it calls a function every
hit |
| 22:50.21 |
``Erik |
and I'm
testing full depth |
| 22:50.52 |
``Erik |
(might be
worth doing both... also; the 5x is awfully vague...) |
| 22:50.56 |
Maloeran |
I call a
function per "batch" of hits too, so that the user can prematurely
cancel traversal |
| 22:51.05 |
``Erik |
in fact, of
that entire contract, the 5x one is the one that irks me the most
O:-) |
| 22:51.44 |
Maloeran |
I really
think it should be 5x times faster to solve specific problems,
presented in the optimal manner for both engines |
| 22:52.00 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
ohloh is pretty nifty .. i've been working lightly with them to fix
some of their processing problems -- our stats are outright wrong
atm |
| 22:52.36 |
brlcad |
added the
project a few weeks ago |
| 22:56.40 |
brlcad |
hm, i did
account for ws commits and major moves with statcvs -- that mostly
affected user 'morrison' |
| 22:57.29 |
IriX64 |
ahha the
guardian of the "boxen" :) |
| 22:58.16 |
``Erik |
collapsing
pre and post results woulda been nice :) woulda put me on the first
page, heh |
| 22:58.30 |
brlcad |
not
normalized, here is a snapshot of the most recent: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/cvs.html |
| 22:58.33 |
``Erik |
an "aka"
knob |
| 22:58.54 |
``Erik |
was '83 the
first year of rcs? |
| 22:59.13 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 22:59.31 |
``Erik |
huh, bob's
been hittin' it hard the last decade |
| 23:00.01 |
``Erik |
see, in '04,
I have both names... if those were combined, I wonder if I woulda
stepped up above lee... |
| 23:00.25 |
``Erik |
nice to see
I'm a standing name in '03, for a whole 2.5 months heh |
| 23:00.27 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: of
course not ;) |
| 23:00.55 |
``Erik |
mal: it's
about as useful as measuring programmer expertise by
LOC |
| 23:01.15 |
IriX64 |
48? how does
the left hand ahhhh never mind ;) |
| 23:01.29 |
``Erik |
one of the
very few impressive things microsoft has done is try to debunk that
notion in the early 80's, yet here we still use it, heh |
| 23:02.09 |
Maloeran |
I heard that
mesuring LOC/month was common in some environments,
scary |
| 23:02.41 |
``Erik |
what's
keeping you, irix? hop to, submit patches, one of us will review it
and either bounce it back with feedback or apply it and shove your
name in the contributors file |
| 23:03.03 |
``Erik |
if you don't
know where to start, look at the bugs and feature request trackers
on sf... grab one owned by 'nobody' |
| 23:03.16 |
IriX64 |
for(i=1;toinfinity;i++) printf("Line 1
%d\n",i); |
| 23:03.32 |
``Erik |
10 print
"Hi" |
| 23:03.34 |
``Erik |
20 goto
10 |
| 23:03.36 |
Maloeran |
I also read (
from efnet's #c ) that the average productivity was 300-500 lines
of code per month, which is even scarier |
| 23:03.36 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 23:03.49 |
IriX64 |
mines
generating LOC ;) |
| 23:04.02 |
``Erik |
bear in mind,
mal, the average environment is rife with meetings, training,
email, and other bullshit |
| 23:04.20 |
``Erik |
40 hours a
work week, you might get 5-10 hours of productive code
time |
| 23:04.27 |
Maloeran |
Ouch
:) |
| 23:05.18 |
``Erik |
(tht's after
taking the cut for ramp-up and ramp-down from interruptions as well
as 'dain bread because I'm here during specified
hours') |
| 23:06.04 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
there was a study done several months back that showed, on average
across the entire industry that programmers only generate about
2000 lines of maintainable/sustainable code per year |
| 23:07.51 |
brlcad |
a dev might
be able to generate 2000 in a given month, but it's mostly
useless/unmaintainable and is either thrown away or becomes
obsolete or is rewritten |
| 23:07.52 |
Maloeran |
This is
terrifying. Considering this is an average and some must do 10
times that, there are a lot of bad programmers roaming
around |
| 23:08.07 |
``Erik |
every time I
crank up an editor on some code, put my feet up and get ready to
code, SOMEONE walks into my office with a stupid question or
something |
| 23:08.11 |
``Erik |
actually |
| 23:08.29 |
``Erik |
it happens
about when I'm ready to write code, after I remember all of what I
was doing last |
| 23:09.06 |
``Erik |
(heh, and I
do it to brlcad allllll the time) |
| 23:09.33 |
brlcad |
the report
more showed that most code is useless from a long-term perspective
-- how useful is most of the code you've written today going to be
unmodified 10 years from now sorts of implications |
| 23:09.46 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, 10
years is a long time |
| 23:10.03 |
brlcad |
it's easy to
churn out tons of code, just like it's easy to write long crappy
essays ones whole life |
| 23:10.09 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
my SSE code will survive that long, but I hope the rest is mostly
good |
| 23:10.33 |
brlcad |
i think
you'll be survived about even "the rest" if you divert onto
different projects |
| 23:10.36 |
``Erik |
hm, 2 (sorta
3) with over 20 years legacy |
| 23:10.58 |
brlcad |
i've
revisited code after 10-15 years only to see it all totally
alien |
| 23:11.09 |
brlcad |
code i've
written that is |
| 23:11.15 |
Maloeran |
Ahah,
neat |
| 23:11.18 |
``Erik |
heh, me
too |
| 23:11.25 |
Maloeran |
Frankly, I
don't remember my code too well either after a couple
years |
| 23:11.33 |
brlcad |
some of it I
grok'd right away.. but a lot of it not so well |
| 23:11.43 |
``Erik |
code from
even 10 years ago makes me go "wtf was I thinking?" |
| 23:12.08 |
brlcad |
wasn't until
probably a good decade that a good balance of comments, structure,
and conventions settled down |
| 23:12.22 |
``Erik |
I hope that
means I've drastically improved... and I hope in 10 years, I look
at todays code and say the same thing, otherwise I'm not
improving... *cough* |
| 23:12.31 |
brlcad |
exactly |
| 23:12.36 |
Maloeran |
In fact,
barely a few months later, when trying to document the graph
preparation code... I had to pause for 30 minutes to understand how
some weird pass worked |
| 23:12.46 |
``Erik |
I'd be scared
to see the code I wrote 20 yrs ago, heh |
| 23:13.09 |
brlcad |
heh, if that
happens in just a couple months.. you've got a ways to go
:) |
| 23:14.02 |
Maloeran |
Ah the code
isn't bad :), it's just both complex and optimized |
| 23:14.09 |
``Erik |
I lost all my
code from '83 to '96 :( |
| 23:14.26 |
``Erik |
but it was
all cbm stuff |
| 23:14.38 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
complexity and documentation are two factors on code, not just
functionality |
| 23:15.08 |
``Erik |
'unmaintable'
becomes 'obsolete' very very fast |
| 23:15.15 |
``Erik |
like, 2 days
after it's "done" |
| 23:15.41 |
brlcad |
readability,
maintainability, optimization clarity (sometimes
semi-contradictory), complexity/simplicity, quantity,
hmm.. |
| 23:15.45 |
``Erik |
unmainainable |
| 23:16.14 |
``Erik |
maintainability infers readability and
clarity :D |
| 23:16.24 |
Maloeran |
Yes yes, I'm
complete writing the documentation... when I read about how to
generate "summaries", several paragraphs not attached to functions
or files in Doxygen |
| 23:16.38 |
Maloeran |
I'll*
complete |
| 23:16.57 |
brlcad |
``Erik: to an
extent.. maintainability has other factors including familiarity,
language choices, patterns/paradigms, etc |
| 23:18.11 |
Maloeran |
Any keyword
to look up on how to generate overviews, summaries, general
explanations in Doxygen? |
| 23:19.16 |
``Erik |
ah, if only
it were all in scheme *sigh* |
| 00:01.05 |
Maloeran |
Does the OSX
bug occur on ia32 using the x87 instruction set? FPU stack
conversions to and from 80 bits will cause differences |
| 00:10.05 |
IriX64 |
may i ask a
question re shared libs thing? |
| 00:10.19 |
brlcad |
that is very
much related to the issue, but is exactly the sort of problems that
I was referring to that are predominantly accounted for
now |
| 00:10.39 |
IriX64 |
the autoconf
thing then? |
| 00:11.07 |
brlcad |
~ask |
| 00:11.14 |
ibot |
hmm... ask is
Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete,
concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first.
Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask
them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We
are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 00:11.14 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 00:11.22 |
brlcad |
bah |
| 00:12.01 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:12.09 |
IriX64 |
power bump
grrr.... :) |
| 00:12.24 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/354478 |
| 00:12.40 |
IriX64 |
look at the
last few lines. |
| 00:12.55 |
IriX64 |
libpng.so.1
does not exist here. |
| 00:13.02 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: the
point is that in pretty much all of the cases, the differences and
misses can be accounted for -- and librt works extensively to make
sure that results are repeatable as it can't be emphasized as to
the importance that has with simulation studies |
| 00:14.13 |
brlcad |
so missing
just one pixel in a large render on an edge case .. is actually
considered a significant BUG that has to be addressed .. not just a
compiler behavior to be accepted -- they can (and should) be
accounted for, or at least thoroughly understood as to what the
*exact* cause is |
| 00:15.01 |
brlcad |
to date (and
that date being 20+ years), there's not been a case of
hardware/compiler goo that could not be accounted for by some
means |
| 00:16.18 |
brlcad |
IriX64: at a
glance, looks like a libtool bug .. but there's not much
information to go with |
| 00:16.28 |
brlcad |
all the error
indicates is that ld failed for some unknown reason |
| 00:17.18 |
brlcad |
would have to
turn up gcc's verbosity and compile by hand to see what
happened |
| 00:17.55 |
brlcad |
alternatively, you could install png via
usual cygwin means, and let configure auto-detect it so it doesn't
try to build the bundled libpng |
| 00:18.27 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, if we
suppose a ray is hitting right on the edge of a triangle, any
little difference caused by the compiler may swap the result ; if
it hits or it doesn't |
| 00:18.58 |
Maloeran |
And you know
that already... I guess it must just be explained, but the compiler
will cause that kind of "artefacts" |
| 00:19.37 |
Twingy |
artifacts |
| 00:24.52 |
IriX64 |
brlcad:
ty |
| 01:38.35 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: of
course that can happen -- the issue is more knowing exactly when it
happens and being sure that is what is really happening when a
difference is encountered |
| 01:39.36 |
brlcad |
over the
years, it's often been the case that there was either a bug in the
hardware, or a bug in system routines (e.g. sqrt) that would have
gone unnoticed had it all been assumed to be just compiler
reordering |
| 01:40.34 |
brlcad |
even with
reordering, a lot of differences can sometimes/often be accounted
for -- checking for things consistently with tolerance for example,
so if you're an edge case, you actually compare with tolerance
considerations so it doesn't matter how it's ordered |
| 01:42.36 |
brlcad |
requires a
lot more care and thought on the implementation, something that is
rarely (never?) a concern for optical tracing, but is considerably
important for simulation purposes that need to be repeatable
studies or at least fully understood behavior (so it can be
expected and classes of results can be observed) |
| 01:43.55 |
brlcad |
the CS
aspects cannot overwhelm and are not more important than the
engineering and scientific purposes that the codes are written
for |
| 01:44.31 |
dtidrow |
likely less
important, in fact |
| 01:45.02 |
brlcad |
usually
extremely |
| 01:45.14 |
brlcad |
which is why
a lot of the code is shit unfortunately too |
| 01:45.15 |
dtidrow |
yep |
| 01:46.15 |
brlcad |
though
sometimes it's not too, I think you'll just find all sorts just
like people ;) |
| 01:46.20 |
Maloeran |
Even with
tolerance, it can almost be considered random exactly on the edge
of the tolerance |
| 01:47.03 |
Maloeran |
I think the
point is that the tolerance shouldn't matter. If the ray of a pixel
goes directly on the edge of a triangle, it doesn't matter if the
triangle is hit or not |
| 01:49.44 |
CIA-5 |
libIRC:
03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h
src/TCPConnection.cpp): kill a connection if the listeners don't
want it. |
| 01:53.04 |
brlcad |
that was just
one example |
| 01:54.35 |
brlcad |
some issues
can be accounted for by considering tolerance, some have nothing to
do with tolerance |
| 01:55.18 |
brlcad |
for something
like the edge case of a triangle, you could -- again, for example
-- test if it's on the edge and consistently report a hit or
miss |
| 01:55.45 |
brlcad |
whatever
impact that causes on performance is secondary if it results in
numerical stability |
| 01:55.46 |
CIA-5 |
libIRC:
03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h
src/TCPConnection.cpp): give the hostmask and ip back
seperately. |
| 01:56.21 |
Maloeran |
That triangle
edge test could be subject to a bit of rounding too, but I get the
idea |
| 01:57.02 |
Maloeran |
My raytracer
sure causes a whole lot of off-by-many ; same hardware, same scene,
even same compiled executable |
| 01:57.14 |
brlcad |
yep, but then
that specifically would be a case where tolerance would give you
invariant results (within the specified tolerance) |
| 01:57.27 |
Maloeran |
The graph is
different on every run, and that clearly changes the results a tiny
bit |
| 01:58.26 |
brlcad |
yes, and the
case can be made (and has been made) that the purpose of your
tracer is filling a niche where the impact and varaince is probably
acceptible |
| 01:58.52 |
Maloeran |
All right,
thanks |
| 01:59.30 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
give a carte blanche to ignore the variances though ;) the
differences will (at least initially) probably be investigated
one-by-one so that they are understood |
| 02:00.26 |
brlcad |
(in a real
analysis and with test cases, part of the production
polish) |
| 02:01.26 |
brlcad |
I suspect the
bigger issue with integrating your tracer is not going to be edge
cases.. :) |
| 02:01.51 |
Maloeran |
Yes, quite
right, unfortunately... :) |
| 02:02.47 |
Maloeran |
Really, I
think the API is efficient, clean, flexible and complete. Because
of that, it of course isn't "simple" |
| 02:02.47 |
brlcad |
aside from
politics and other issues, it's going to be issues caused from your
tracer's fundamental approach of not retaining knowledge of solid
geometry |
| 02:03.04 |
Maloeran |
Oh. I assumed
it was the interface |
| 02:03.09 |
brlcad |
inside out
issues, problems building intersection segments, etc |
| 02:03.42 |
Maloeran |
Inside-out
issues can be cleanly handled *if* the interface is used as such
with ray sources |
| 02:04.13 |
brlcad |
you're still
thinking at the CS level -- the interface is somewhat irrelevant
other than impacting performance |
| 02:04.45 |
Maloeran |
I'm saying
that if the native interface is used, handling intersection
segments and inside-out issues will not be a problem |
| 02:05.07 |
Maloeran |
If the API is
butchered to be squeezed into another interface, it will be a
problem |
| 02:05.08 |
brlcad |
I'm saying, I
bet it will be regardless of the interface ;) |
| 02:05.24 |
Maloeran |
It's one of
the things ray sources are meant to solve |
| 02:06.00 |
brlcad |
handling of
bad geometry will be another problem, and overall robustness of
your code I suspect |
| 02:06.06 |
brlcad |
but that's
all tbd |
| 02:07.43 |
brlcad |
do you retain
manifolds and topological structure? other than basic neighbor
connectivity that is |
| 02:08.12 |
Maloeran |
I don't even
retain neighbor connectivity :) |
| 02:08.33 |
brlcad |
thought so..
don't think you're import format even supports the concept of a
shared edge iirc |
| 02:09.06 |
brlcad |
will be
interesting to see what sort of results it has |
| 02:09.12 |
Maloeran |
Getting
duplicate hits on the edges of connected triangles is perfectly
normal, and that can be easily and flawlessly corrected with
properly oriented meshes |
| 02:10.55 |
brlcad |
for a single
part, I think that can be easily proven -- for arbitrary
collections of parts, not so easy (regions perfectly aligned to
other regions, embedded in other regions, lots of various edge
cases) |
| 02:11.36 |
brlcad |
iirc, it's an
np-complete problem even if you DO have the toplogical
information |
| 02:12.33 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, you
could get two alternate false hits in a row, and it wouldn't be
able to correct from the oriented mesh information |
| 02:12.39 |
Maloeran |
It's just
terribly unlikely though |
| 02:12.45 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:12.53 |
brlcad |
it happens
all the time :) |
| 02:13.09 |
Maloeran |
Two
consecutive alternate false hits? Gez :) |
| 02:13.29 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps we
don't mean exactly the same thing, but it's probably like one in a
billion |
| 02:13.45 |
brlcad |
mostly caused
by floating point math issues, but yeah, it happens |
| 02:14.11 |
Maloeran |
I think I
would need to make a drawing about this special case |
| 02:16.25 |
brlcad |
I think I
know the case, its one of several actually where the segment
building goes all out of whack and you basically have to flip a
coin |
| 02:17.04 |
brlcad |
Twingy spent
more time that I bet he cared to dealing with getting the segment
building to handle a couple of those cases similar to
librt |
| 02:17.46 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/error.png |
| 02:17.51 |
brlcad |
http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/02/largest-drain-hole-ever.html |
| 02:18.14 |
Maloeran |
Assuming all
triangles are properly oriented, the code "knows" which sides of
the triangles point out and in |
| 02:18.34 |
brlcad |
oh yeah, that
case will come up.. a lot |
| 02:18.49 |
Maloeran |
The ray in
red will enter at A and exit at B, two consecutive false hits with
alternate sides |
| 02:18.59 |
Maloeran |
Really? It
doesn't seem very likely to me |
| 02:19.25 |
Maloeran |
The triangles
overlap each other just barely enough to cover the numerical
imprecision of the ray-triangle intersection code |
| 02:20.17 |
Maloeran |
If the two
false hits aren't facing in/out exactly, the code can figure it
out, two consecutive "in" of course means to ignore the
first |
| 02:21.38 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
are lots of similar sorts of concave compartments, structures, and
parts where there will be potential for a ray to hit that condition
from some viewing perspective |
| 02:22.20 |
Maloeran |
Right, but
it's really not likely to happen |
| 02:23.24 |
brlcad |
that depends
entirely on the view and the geometry of course |
| 02:23.55 |
brlcad |
considering
billions of rays are generally fired for a simulation, one in a
billion means it'll likely be encountered a few hundred times
causing .. who knows |
| 02:24.00 |
brlcad |
may matter,
may not |
| 02:24.30 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I'm
hoping one per billion rays won't matter too much... |
| 02:25.17 |
brlcad |
hehe, that's
a case where scientifically it *might* not matter (it's TBD) .. but
politically, it might ;-) |
| 03:00.49 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 03:08.03 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
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| 03:15.47 |
CIA-5 |
libIRC:
03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): get the IRC server
class listening and calling methods for events. |
| 03:17.36 |
Maloeran |
An IRC server
class, in BRL-CAD? |
| 03:18.00 |
Maloeran |
Unexpected,
amusing |
| 05:22.46 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: no,
not in brl-cad |
| 05:23.11 |
brlcad |
it's a
completely separate project that I worked on with jeff a couple
years ago, and dabble with from time to time |
| 05:23.17 |
brlcad |
libIRC |
| 05:23.36 |
louipc |
what's that
written in? |
| 05:24.19 |
brlcad |
C++ |
| 05:25.04 |
brlcad |
it has/had C
callbacks at one point, don't remember where we left off with
them |
| 05:30.21 |
brlcad |
it has a
client and server interface, you can set up one or the other .. ane
jeff seems to be refactoring some bits today for something he's
working on |
| 05:30.49 |
louipc |
It reminds me
of something similar done in TCL |
| 07:15.12 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 08:08.14 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 09:11.43 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.114.49) |
| 09:32.40 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.1: add initial manual page for
pixcmp that includes the variou newly being added options (-l -i
-s) along with details on return codes and example use. |
| 09:33.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: include the new pixcmp.1
manual page |
| 09:38.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: |
| 09:38.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
major rewrite, add support for -s, -l, and -i options for silent,
verbose output |
| 09:38.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: (ala
cmp's -l option), and support for skipping input. make the
return/error |
| 09:38.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
codes more uniform as well as more detail on the usage. still need
to actually |
| 09:38.26 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: add
the print statement for -l, but everything else should be done.
basic |
| 09:38.28 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
operation and previous use remains unaffected. |
| 09:42.12 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added support to pixcmp for -s, -l, and
-i options for silent, verbose output, and support for skipping
input making the interface more similar to cmp. also note the
addition of a new manual page for pixcmp too. |
| 13:17.54 |
Twingy |
hrm |
| 13:18.00 |
Twingy |
icy |
| 14:11.06 |
``Erik |
indeed, I'm
not going to the office today |
| 14:52.19 |
brlcad |
hrmph, no
connection to cad |
| 15:20.58 |
brlcad |
well
allrighty then.. that plan didn't work |
| 15:31.32 |
``Erik |
? car iced
over? |
| 15:41.53 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 15:42.16 |
brlcad |
and my
scraper is sitting in front of my desk |
| 15:52.27 |
``Erik |
lee was in
the office and shut down machines, they had a long power
outage |
| 15:52.53 |
``Erik |
<-- was
just on the phone with wendy, she'll try to find someone to light
some of them up |
| 15:58.26 |
brlcad |
cad came back
up |
| 15:58.39 |
brlcad |
and has no
downtime, so probably just a switch somewhere |
| 15:59.16 |
brlcad |
the x twins
are probably lee's doing |
| 16:01.25 |
``Erik |
...
fuck.... |
| 16:03.40 |
``Erik |
brlcad, think
you could tar up ~/.cvs/devel/rtcmp and shoot it to me? |
| 16:05.04 |
``Erik |
(or
~/src/rtcmp) |
| 16:07.46 |
Twingy |
use hot
water |
| 16:28.13 |
Twingy |
if you have
salt, hot salty water works good too |
| 16:29.00 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic_
(n=docelic@212.91.112.149) |
| 16:29.22 |
Twingy |
if I owned
your car I wouldn't drive in it either |
| 16:31.22 |
louipc |
I wouldn't
think pouring salty water on a car is a good idea |
| 16:31.32 |
archivist |
having seen
pics of his last crash, lock ``Erik indoors |
| 16:31.38 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:31.54 |
``Erik |
back to snow
out there |
| 16:35.21 |
``Erik |
being the
only accident of any kind that was my fault in 15 yrs, and certain
mitigating circumstances, I don't think I'm doing TOO bad... I
mean, I've driven on 6" of solid ice, I've gone out of control on
an onramp in colorado during a major blizzard, driven through fog
with like 20' visibility, ... *shrug* |
| 16:35.41 |
``Erik |
I had a bout
of stupid, and I'm cured of it now. otherwise, I think I'm
reasonably competent behind the wheel :D |
| 16:54.23 |
brlcad |
``Erik: done,
in your home on .bz |
| 17:27.31 |
``Erik |
heh, that
means I gotta remember my passwd to .bz :D |
| 17:28.13 |
``Erik |
or find a
valid ssh key'd machine |
| 17:32.40 |
``Erik |
teh fux, one
of my g4's is pinging but not permitting ssh |
| 18:14.59 |
Twingy |
hah |
| 18:15.06 |
Twingy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.17 |
Twingy |
decided to
trim the new plane |
| 18:15.24 |
Twingy |
3 flights,
landings were almost vertical due to wind |
| 18:15.52 |
Twingy |
the funny
thing is at 2 notches of 10 it was as fast as my
trainer |
| 18:19.07 |
``Erik |
where'd you
fly? |
| 18:19.43 |
``Erik |
too much
noise to fly out your back yard, I presume... |
| 18:19.50 |
``Erik |
fences,
trees, houses, etc |
| 18:20.35 |
Twingy |
edgewood |
| 18:20.37 |
Twingy |
HS |
| 18:20.56 |
``Erik |
ah, out at
their sports fields... |
| 18:21.07 |
Twingy |
by the third
flight I was slushing through |
| 18:21.15 |
``Erik |
back in
missouri, I talked to school admins, they didn' want me to fly due
to the liability |
| 18:21.24 |
Twingy |
heh, ask me
if I care :D |
| 18:21.26 |
``Erik |
though they
thought it was cool |
| 18:21.28 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 18:21.42 |
``Erik |
<-- a bit
less fast&loose about rules... |
| 18:22.02 |
``Erik |
thought,
oddly enough, I convinced the evil one to seriously bend a rule for
me today |
| 18:22.20 |
``Erik |
<--
working in his dining room O.o |
| 18:22.34 |
Twingy |
haha, the
evil one |
| 18:22.37 |
``Erik |
I mean, um,
'having a coordination meeting' |
| 18:22.41 |
Twingy |
Darth
W |
| 18:22.45 |
``Erik |
ayup |
| 18:23.02 |
``Erik |
the
disturbing part is that darth w sees the darth as a
victem |
| 18:23.16 |
``Erik |
like,
lametard sw, not real s |
| 18:23.16 |
``Erik |
sw |
| 18:23.32 |
Twingy |
yes, that
does make the satire all the better :) |
| 18:23.47 |
``Erik |
"where's
skankbutt?" "you killed her"
"nnnooooooooooocallameeting" |
| 18:24.10 |
Twingy |
the guys in
my branch get a kick out of how many emails I get from
wendy |
| 18:24.17 |
``Erik |
every once a
while, though, there's an omfg wtf |
| 18:24.31 |
Twingy |
checked my
email this week, 2 from my branch, elevendy billion from
wendy |
| 18:24.33 |
``Erik |
hah, yeah, no
shit, yesterday, I got like 40 from her out of like 60 |
| 18:24.58 |
``Erik |
and a good
number of the 'not from her' emails were automated status
things |
| 18:25.05 |
``Erik |
<-- gets 3
a day from the machines he admins |
| 18:25.33 |
Twingy |
there's 3 I'd
like not to get from machines I don't admin |
| 18:25.35 |
``Erik |
so over the 3
day weekend I enjoyed... she was still 2/3 of the
volume |
| 18:25.59 |
``Erik |
I don't htink
you recieve any from my machines... just the list that you
accidently got on, no? |
| 18:26.09 |
Twingy |
the x's and
cad |
| 18:26.16 |
``Erik |
those ain't
mine |
| 18:26.18 |
Twingy |
root@ |
| 18:26.22 |
Twingy |
don't want
those |
| 18:26.24 |
``Erik |
but I'll look
into removing you from that list if it's in my power |
| 18:26.28 |
``Erik |
tomorrie |
| 18:26.29 |
Twingy |
hooray |
| 18:26.39 |
Twingy |
three less
delete buttons to press |
| 18:26.49 |
``Erik |
using web
mail? |
| 18:27.03 |
``Erik |
<-- has
the winderz box, but mostly uses the web mail at wizmer |
| 18:27.04 |
Twingy |
no, hopping
on co-workers computer until lappy ariives |
| 18:27.18 |
``Erik |
the other two
quit working... |
| 18:27.48 |
Twingy |
wendy got
upset when I told her I was checking my email twice a
week |
| 18:27.55 |
``Erik |
hh |
| 18:28.10 |
``Erik |
wow, twice?
you're cutting into your productivity there |
| 18:28.14 |
Twingy |
the funny
thing is, I don't care :) |
| 18:28.30 |
``Erik |
I've taken
the stance that I check it MAYBE once a day... when I get into the
office... |
| 18:28.38 |
``Erik |
no one has
given me shit yet |
| 18:31.54 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 18:31.55 |
``Erik |
admin
leave |
| 18:31.56 |
``Erik |
swank |
| 18:32.52 |
``Erik |
I'm damn glad
I didn't attempt to drive in today |
| 18:39.01 |
Maloeran |
Working from
home? |
| 18:39.55 |
docelic |
so who is
wendy ? |
| 18:46.48 |
Maloeran |
The boss of
Erik's boss, and the boss of Justin's former boss |
| 18:47.17 |
docelic |
Were the
emails spicy, ``Erik ? |
| 18:47.17 |
docelic |
:) |
| 20:13.53 |
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| 20:17.33 |
``Erik |
heh, sorry...
didnah catch teh k0rekshunz |
| 20:24.21 |
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| 20:49.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix the variety of ami.tcl and ampi.tcl
tclscript warnings/errors |
| 22:04.41 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 3 dirs): remove libtkGLX. it was
only being compiled on IRIX, but actually not even being used
there. |
| 23:31.53 |
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| 00:39.04 |
IriX64 |
that
datarootdir thing this fixed it for me. |
| 00:39.13 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/361223 |
| 00:52.58 |
brlcad |
there's
already a fix in for that that doesn't outright override the
datadir |
| 00:53.22 |
IriX64 |
hah new way
to distribute binaries, compile with --prefix=/usr/local/whatever,
make install and tar up /usr/local/whatever and tell em to unpack
accordingly :) |
| 00:53.34 |
IriX64 |
where can i
get this fix? |
| 00:54.42 |
brlcad |
cvs |
| 00:54.49 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 00:55.39 |
IriX64 |
at the moment
tho, my forge is melting bits :) |
| 01:00.01 |
IriX64 |
mine won't
hurt anything tho will it? |
| 01:00.59 |
IriX64 |
not that ill
distribute it or anything but i fear shooting myself in the foot
here. |
| 01:02.24 |
IriX64 |
i figure as
long as im on *this setup it should work forever :) |
| 05:10.54 |
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| 07:20.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 07:20.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
collapse the version checks into one routine. improve the version
checks so |
| 07:20.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: that
they work more reliably for various version string formats.
this |
| 07:20.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
refactoring should fix a bug in the script where automake 1.10 was
being |
| 07:20.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
incorrectly processed as 1.1.0 among other benefits and code
simplification. |
| 07:27.56 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: simplify some more, make sed a
requirement and abort if it seems to be unavailable |
| 09:12.02 |
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| 19:04.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: add an initial interface file
for libsysv. this compatibility interface shouldn't really be
included throughout the package, but may ultimatley get added to
common.h as part of configuration compatibility. |
| 19:04.44 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add the new sysv.h header
to the noinst header list. |
| 19:06.02 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (bsdselect.c strdup.c): deknrify
the function |
| 19:06.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strsep.c: ws |
| 19:12.18 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (bsdselect.c strchr.c strdup.c
strtok.c): ws |
| 19:13.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: initial addition of
basename() so we don't need to test for its
availability |
| 19:14.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: add the new basename.c
file, extracted from openbsd (bsd licensed) |
| 19:14.21 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: add basename() |
| 19:57.30 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:58.28 |
IriX64 |
cygwin+brlcad=windows cad system
:) |
| 20:04.11 |
IriX64 |
tried to fix
autogen.sh myself, mucked it up completly, started reporting
version 0.0 of the tools. |
| 20:04.25 |
louipc |
whoah |
| 20:04.43 |
IriX64 |
thank God for
backups. :) |
| 20:04.45 |
louipc |
yeah I just
noticed that it detected automake incorectly |
| 20:05.01 |
IriX64 |
1.1.0? |
| 20:05.02 |
louipc |
it thinks v
1.10 is 1.1.0 |
| 20:05.07 |
IriX64 |
ditto |
| 20:05.21 |
IriX64 |
good
job. |
| 20:05.36 |
louipc |
nice |
| 20:06.25 |
brlcad |
would one of
you test and make sure it works:
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh |
| 20:07.56 |
Maloeran |
Grr. "cvs
[commit aborted]: there is no version here; do `cvs checkout'
first" |
| 20:08.08 |
Maloeran |
And a cvs
checkout of course doesn't solve anything |
| 20:08.17 |
louipc |
brlcad: looks
good so far |
| 20:08.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: progname is often not
the same as argv[0], so modify bu_getprogname() accordingly and
expose the bu_argv0() function to distinguish between the
two. |
| 20:09.19 |
Maloeran |
Do you have
30 seconds to help with that cvs message, brlcad? |
| 20:09.31 |
Maloeran |
I sure often
get obscure cvs errors when I move files around between desktop and
latop |
| 20:10.11 |
brlcad |
hm |
| 20:10.46 |
brlcad |
they both the
same OS and version of CVS? |
| 20:11.02 |
Maloeran |
Same OS, 32
and 64 bits though, perhaps not quite the same version of
CVS |
| 20:11.23 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you're commiting from a dir outside the cvs tree |
| 20:11.38 |
brlcad |
you only do a
checkout once |
| 20:11.47 |
Maloeran |
I'm right in
~/rayforce |
| 20:11.57 |
brlcad |
and there's a
~/rayforce/CVS dir? |
| 20:12.08 |
Maloeran |
Yes |
| 20:12.21 |
brlcad |
cat
~/rayforce/CVS/Root |
| 20:12.34 |
Maloeran |
Looks
fine |
| 20:12.55 |
brlcad |
can you pm it
to me |
| 20:13.02 |
brlcad |
as well as
CVS/Repository |
| 20:13.41 |
Maloeran |
I think it's
throwing the error because of the other/ directory actually,
there's no ./CVS there |
| 20:14.08 |
brlcad |
could
be |
| 20:14.32 |
brlcad |
all of the D
entries in ~/rayforce/CVS/Entries will get traversed |
| 20:14.56 |
brlcad |
you can avoid
the problem by commiting files individually of course, or fix your
Entries file |
| 20:15.08 |
Maloeran |
./other is
listed |
| 20:15.15 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 20:15.18 |
brlcad |
then that's
why |
| 20:15.35 |
brlcad |
you probably
copied the file over from some other place that didn't have a CVS
into a current checkout |
| 20:16.00 |
Maloeran |
Right, I
think I'll manage to fix it from there. Thanks |
| 20:16.05 |
brlcad |
s/probably/almost guaranteed |
| 20:16.29 |
brlcad |
you should be
able to mv other and cvs update -dP |
| 20:16.39 |
Maloeran |
There we go,
it works. Thanks |
| 20:17.04 |
brlcad |
you should
update -dP just to make sure you didn't hide the problem for down
the road ;) |
| 20:17.17 |
``Erik |
<-- points
out that it's WAY easier to leave a checkout in place, have
seperate checkouts on the lappie and workstation, and when you want
to move between the two, make sure you're all committed up and just
update on the other... |
| 20:17.43 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 20:17.53 |
brlcad |
frequent
commits and all that jazz |
| 20:18.32 |
``Erik |
to usurp the
meme, commit early, commit often |
| 20:21.10 |
``Erik |
the Entries
file will hold what your side thinks is in the repo... you can
always co to a new place to verify it |
| 20:23.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: basename() is
guaranteed by libsysv now, so no need to check for
HAVE_BASENAME |
| 20:24.35 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/str_manip.c: remove the unnecessary
definition of basename() .. libsysv provides a better version if it
truely is not provided by the system. |
| 20:27.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/.cvsignore: ignore more
ac_config_subdir/configure crap dumped in here |
| 20:28.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore newly added
brep_cube if it exists |
| 20:29.16 |
IriX64 |
ok, I'm beat
how do i get that autogen.sh? |
| 20:29.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: sort lines, vars
first |
| 20:30.02 |
brlcad |
IriX64: er,
with any browser? |
| 20:30.16 |
IriX64 |
can't open
page. |
| 20:30.25 |
brlcad |
then you
probably copied the url wrong |
| 20:30.34 |
IriX64 |
cut and paste
brlcad. |
| 20:30.45 |
IriX64 |
will try
again. |
| 20:30.48 |
brlcad |
then you
probably cut and paste wrong :) |
| 20:31.13 |
brlcad |
else, just
type it in:
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh |
| 20:31.39 |
brlcad |
it might even
just download immediately |
| 20:32.44 |
IriX64 |
not letting
me in and its exactly what you just typed. |
| 20:33.17 |
IriX64 |
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh |
| 20:33.24 |
IriX64 |
right? |
| 20:33.38 |
brlcad |
IriX64: that
looks right |
| 20:33.39 |
IriX64 |
im using
ie. |
| 20:33.58 |
``Erik |
<-- can't
try ie, is totally windows free here at home |
| 20:34.16 |
IriX64 |
heh a dream
come true eh? |
| 20:34.38 |
IriX64 |
maybe i
should install firefox. |
| 20:34.48 |
brlcad |
IriX64: then
go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
-> click on Code -> click on Browse CVS -> click on brlcad
-> scroll down to autogen.sh and click on the name -> click
on "download" |
| 20:35.18 |
brlcad |
i suspect
it's just downloading it already to your desktop or
something |
| 20:36.53 |
brlcad |
yep, I just
tried it in IE |
| 20:37.10 |
brlcad |
it shows a
"cannot display this page" and downloads the file |
| 20:37.20 |
Maloeran |
Neat.. |
| 20:37.44 |
brlcad |
which for me
also includes a dialog prompt of where to save the file , but I
suspect you turned that off at some point |
| 20:38.01 |
brlcad |
of you've got
a bunch of dialogs underneath or something |
| 20:38.08 |
IriX64 |
anim, awf but
no autogen.sh |
| 20:38.35 |
IriX64 |
downloads it
to where? |
| 20:38.59 |
brlcad |
you're asking
me? |
| 20:39.01 |
IriX64 |
thanks tho
lets not get caught up in it. |
| 20:39.07 |
brlcad |
it's your
machine, your set up ;) |
| 20:39.20 |
IriX64 |
she built
with automake 1.9.6 im happy. |
| 20:39.24 |
brlcad |
autogen.sh is
at the very bottom |
| 20:40.45 |
brlcad |
no matter, it
worked for louipc yes? |
| 20:41.07 |
IriX64 |
thanks give
me ten i gotta install automake 1-10 again takes me a few
minutes. |
| 20:43.17 |
IriX64 |
bing bang
you're a winner, my thanks. |
| 20:43.43 |
IriX64 |
cept libtool
is coming up 1.5.23a is that proper? |
| 20:44.29 |
louipc |
brlcad:
yep |
| 20:44.37 |
IriX64 |
thanks
then. |
| 20:44.56 |
IriX64 |
lets see if
it actually builds with those makefiles. |
| 20:46.16 |
louipc |
It is a weird
URL with the asterisks |
| 20:51.58 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.183.80) |
| 20:52.19 |
brlcad |
asterisks are
valid |
| 20:52.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: footer and
ws |
| 20:52.36 |
brlcad |
IriX64: what
does glibtoolize --version report? |
| 20:53.15 |
IriX64 |
1.5.23a |
| 20:53.41 |
IriX64 |
so you're
right its proper. |
| 20:54.27 |
IriX64 |
configuring
it now. |
| 20:54.32 |
brlcad |
even better,
it correctly compares now even though there's an alpha in
there |
| 20:54.39 |
IriX64 |
yeah |
| 20:54.46 |
IriX64 |
good
work. |
| 20:54.55 |
louipc |
brlcad: you
really spiffied up that script |
| 21:00.01 |
Maloeran |
Gez, 20
minutes to do a cvs commit of 50mb from a 10mbits line |
| 21:01.08 |
``Erik |
50mb?
O.o |
| 21:01.12 |
``Erik |
what is
it? |
| 21:01.45 |
IriX64 |
the whole
freaking project (ducking and running) |
| 21:01.46 |
Maloeran |
All code! :)
No, just a now decent geometry group file format |
| 21:01.56 |
Maloeran |
And
+8202-3147 lines of code |
| 21:02.38 |
``Erik |
it's an ascii
format? |
| 21:02.52 |
Maloeran |
No, the
roter-lowe galleon model is heavy |
| 21:03.23 |
``Erik |
if it's not
ascii, you should've done cvs add -kb <file> so it doesn't
attempt to search it for tags |
| 21:03.29 |
``Erik |
and try to do
diffs on it |
| 21:03.30 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:03.37 |
Maloeran |
Oh! So that's
what it was doing |
| 21:04.19 |
Maloeran |
And you are
right, all the model files weren't uploaded as binary |
| 21:04.44 |
``Erik |
plus changing
every 0x0d to 0x0d0a |
| 21:05.05 |
``Erik |
or trying to
see if it needs to change 0x0d0a to 0x0d, or something |
| 21:05.10 |
``Erik |
newline
fixing |
| 21:05.13 |
Maloeran |
That will
only happen if someone checkouts from a windows box |
| 21:05.45 |
``Erik |
windows/dos
will use 0x0d0a, *nix and osX will use 0x0d, and os[1-9] will use
0x0r |
| 21:06.01 |
``Erik |
I don't
recall what things like beos will do |
| 21:07.26 |
``Erik |
(the history
of all that predates unix, actually, and unix was deviant in faking
the operations... newline and carrier feed map directly to old tty
operations, just like old typewriters themselves) |
| 21:09.03 |
Maloeran |
:) I always
found awkward the whole concept of "text mode" files, creates more
problems than it solves |
| 21:10.41 |
``Erik |
plenty of C
functions to nice things up for you |
| 21:18.42 |
brlcad |
jeez.. a
12000 line commit differential.. if that's your idea of frequent
small commits .. |
| 21:19.12 |
brlcad |
if there was
a bug in there, you'd never find it via cvs history that's almost
for certain |
| 21:28.04 |
Maloeran |
Indeed
brlcad, but I'm quite alone on this anyway, and a CVS history is of
no help for one's own code |
| 21:28.30 |
brlcad |
of no help
for one's own code??? |
| 21:28.49 |
brlcad |
that's
probably the dumbest thing I've heard you say in a long time
:) |
| 21:28.51 |
Maloeran |
You wrote the
code, you know it better than any history :) |
| 21:29.08 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:29.31 |
brlcad |
maybe you do
today, what about in two weeks, or in two months or two years
later.. when that bug is finally exposed |
| 21:29.50 |
``Erik |
if you're
working on tiny toy projects, sure... :D I hope most things I do
are nontrivial and I forget minor details that machines find so
important |
| 21:30.28 |
brlcad |
there is
almost zero tracability on large commits, if the code is going to
be more than a pet project .. that matters |
| 21:31.08 |
IriX64_ |
nmg-bot.exe,
so far automake behaved :) |
| 21:31.31 |
brlcad |
I've
frequently review cvs logs to see stuff that I did years ago, if
anything it shows you the motivation for why something was changed,
and if there's detail it can include references and other leads
when there's a problem |
| 21:31.34 |
``Erik |
I know with
my personal projects, I rely heavily on tagging and good comments
in the cvs history for preparing changelogs and making release
statements |
| 21:31.39 |
Maloeran |
Right, years
later, one might not even recognize the code as his own. If I knew
a few extra CVS commands, I think I would recognize the value of a
proper history |
| 21:32.02 |
``Erik |
"log"
"status" and "ann" are three I like |
| 21:32.06 |
``Erik |
ann being
annotate |
| 21:32.17 |
brlcad |
or just use
annotate and you don't have to explain it :P |
| 21:32.36 |
Maloeran |
*nods* Three
commands I have never learned or used |
| 21:32.46 |
``Erik |
well, I'm
thinking with my fingers, not my brain... :D I'd say 'co' instead
of 'checkout' |
| 21:32.51 |
brlcad |
because all
your code is "still in context" |
| 21:33.07 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 21:33.10 |
brlcad |
just wait
until you eventually do have a context switch and have to figure it
all out again |
| 21:33.32 |
Maloeran |
I know that,
brlcad. I really need to learn these commands to see the value of a
good history |
| 21:33.36 |
brlcad |
that's where
code size and maintenance adds up exponentially |
| 21:33.36 |
``Erik |
mal, pick
something funky in brlcad and muck around with those three commands
for a bit... |
| 21:34.02 |
``Erik |
then think
about poor little me, trying to understand rayforce when all I see
is "+5123 -128 Stuff." |
| 21:34.26 |
Maloeran |
Ahah @ Stuff
:) |
| 21:36.14 |
``Erik |
erik@vidar
~/devel$ cvs log 2>/dev/null | grep -i stuff | wc -l |
| 21:36.14 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.44 |
``Erik |
very little
code is ever complete... no code is ever adequately tested... and
no code is ever bug-free :D |
| 21:38.01 |
brlcad |
unless your
code is but a handful of lines, there will almost *always*
undoutedly be bugs no matter how much you test and feel comfortable
with it |
| 21:38.20 |
``Erik |
for initial
development, being able to compile is a good tough goal for nightly
cvs state |
| 21:38.21 |
IriX64 |
autogen.sh
says you're a liar, so does 10 goto 10 ;) |
| 21:38.51 |
brlcad |
being able to
compile after every cvs commit, regardless of testing and
functionality is generally a good goal |
| 21:39.04 |
brlcad |
if you can
get that much working right, you'll be better off than 90% of
projects |
| 21:39.27 |
brlcad |
what
bugs? |
| 21:39.39 |
``Erik |
(also;
testing fresh checkouts every once in a while is good
practice) |
| 21:39.50 |
Maloeran |
*nods* All
right, so noted, I'll do so. Basically, before now, I was only
commiting when there was something new to show |
| 21:39.53 |
``Erik |
that "sh
autogen.sh" not matching that you fixed back then |
| 21:40.35 |
IriX64 |
speak
too. |
| 21:40.35 |
``Erik |
I hope
autogen.sh is posix sh, not bash... |
| 21:40.54 |
IriX64 |
posix is just
a name like bash. |
| 21:40.58 |
``Erik |
cuz, uh, I
use it with non-bash shells :) a modified bsh, ksh, zsh,
... |
| 21:41.06 |
``Erik |
bash is a
piece of software, posix is a set of standards... |
| 21:41.08 |
IriX64 |
cmon |
| 21:41.38 |
IriX64 |
cmd.exe is
not posix but can be made to run autogen.sh |
| 21:41.39 |
brlcad |
ah, yes..
that was working, then broken then working re sh |
| 21:41.52 |
brlcad |
it wasn't a
posix vs bash thing, just a basename/lookup issue |
| 21:42.31 |
``Erik |
<-- tries
to make his work with a strict posix sh for portability |
| 21:42.44 |
IriX64 |
sometimes it
pays to learn the scripting languages, but there are so bloody many
of them. |
| 21:42.58 |
brlcad |
can't imagine
what it's break on even with strict posix at the moment |
| 21:43.05 |
brlcad |
i'd be
interested in seeing a report if it fails |
| 21:43.17 |
IriX64 |
passed
here |
| 21:43.20 |
brlcad |
only thing
maybe might be some [] operations |
| 21:43.34 |
brlcad |
don't
remember if posix allows -ne and -eq |
| 21:44.30 |
``Erik |
since it's
using /bin/sh, it'll be pretty damn close if not strictly posix on
bsd, solaris, I THINK irix, ... only linux assumes /bin/sh is bash,
iirc |
| 21:45.39 |
IriX64 |
``erik bat
file script i know, might take me a while but i could code an
equivelent. |
| 21:46.38 |
IriX64 |
``E too,
sorry :) |
| 21:46.38 |
``Erik |
equivelant to
what? |
| 21:46.51 |
IriX64 |
to autogen
but *you have to write the tools that it uses ok? ;) |
| 21:48.03 |
IriX64 |
bwthresh.exe
sweet. |
| 21:48.04 |
``Erik |
uh... if
you're gonna use it on windows, you might as well install cygwin
and have a working sh? |
| 21:48.16 |
IriX64 |
uhhh
;) |
| 21:48.24 |
``Erik |
or use the
msvc files and ignore the auto* stuff... |
| 21:48.47 |
IriX64 |
msvc is
pricey. |
| 21:51.06 |
``Erik |
didn't ms
release a free version? lacking the fancy ide, I think, but should
be able to build using the project build files, no? |
| 21:51.30 |
IriX64 |
unknown to me
``Erik. |
| 21:52.53 |
``Erik |
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/download/default.aspx |
| 21:57.49 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/883914 |
| 21:59.05 |
``Erik |
hm, I've seen
similar screens before :D |
| 21:59.39 |
``Erik |
of course, if
I see that one, I say "oh, huh, I didn't break it" and try
harder... |
| 22:00.16 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:06.28 |
IriX64 |
i think
automake-1.10 works brlcad. |
| 22:06.59 |
IriX64 |
gonna install
and runtest it. |
| 22:08.27 |
IriX64 |
whoa---/usr/cygcad/include/brlcad ... no
such file or directory, what gives here? |
| 22:12.44 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/883927 |
| 22:18.25 |
IriX64 |
it looks like
its not making the dir but i don't understand all this stuff in
makefile, sorry :( but i can tell you this, with automake1.9.6 it
works. |
| 22:44.40 |
IriX64 |
just rgressed
to 1.9.6 and make install works again. |
| 22:45.30 |
brlcad |
IriX64: hard
to say what the cause is, but on the surface it looks like an
automake bug |
| 22:46.10 |
IriX64 |
too bad i
don't speak perl, id try to help, but i leave that to those who are
fluent. |
| 22:47.22 |
IriX64 |
``Erik did I
try hard enough? :) |
| 22:47.59 |
IriX64 |
btw is it
safe to reconfigure and just do a make install thats how im trying
this thing out. |
| 22:49.21 |
brlcad |
depends on
what you're trying to do |
| 22:49.41 |
brlcad |
in general if
you need to reconfigure, you probably should recompile |
| 22:49.48 |
brlcad |
but that's
not always the case |
| 22:50.52 |
IriX64 |
same
configure options, codes already compiled, should be able to get
away with it no? |
| 22:51.46 |
brlcad |
then why are
you rerunning configure? |
| 22:52.15 |
IriX64 |
did an
autogen, wanted my makefiles fixed after i regressed to 1.9.6 of
automake. |
| 22:52.33 |
brlcad |
for that,
yeah, should be fine |
| 22:52.36 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 23:26.07 |
IriX64 |
havoc
renders, i'm all happy again :) |
| 00:24.01 |
louipc |
hm build
failed |
| 01:08.46 |
Maloeran |
brlcad might
be at least a half-god of the software, but I still suspect he'll
need more information |
| 01:14.05 |
``Erik |
mal, just for
you...
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/pcmaclinux-thumb.jpg |
| 01:16.56 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, I saw
it already, quite nice |
| 03:08.47 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:49.57 |
Maloeran |
Linux threads
really execute in very constant, predictable patterns |
| 03:50.20 |
Maloeran |
It's good for
the cache of processors, but I wish I could easily insert some
randomness to test things out |
| 03:53.24 |
louipc |
aarg I don't
think I'm getting the latest versions of everything |
| 03:59.07 |
brlcad |
louipc:
que? |
| 04:00.06 |
louipc |
I think it
has something to do with the way cvs packages are prepared on my
distro |
| 04:00.30 |
louipc |
because doing
it manually works |
| 04:37.33 |
louipc |
yep |
| 05:25.47 |
IriX64 |
nytol
:) |
| 06:03.41 |
Maloeran |
Ouch. Looks
like a nice theater |
| 08:23.16 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:23.59 |
*** join/#brlcad cad10
(n=c636cad2@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:29.00 |
louipc |
yar I got
that same make install error as IriX64. making the directory just
makes it give Error 126 instead |
| 15:38.49 |
brlcad |
the farther
ports gets from 5.4, the more fault-prone it seems to
get |
| 15:39.56 |
brlcad |
I usually
run: cvsup -g -L2 /etc/su |
| 15:40.03 |
brlcad |
/etc/supfile |
| 15:41.18 |
brlcad |
along with,
portsdb -Uu, pkgdb -F, portupgrade -arR -l logfile |
| 15:43.28 |
brlcad |
curious to
know if the scan comes up with anything |
| 15:46.17 |
``Erik |
<-- not
upgrading anything, but installed a couple things |
| 15:46.44 |
``Erik |
everything
php5 has buffer overflow vulnerabilities it'd seem |
| 15:46.58 |
``Erik |
I threw on
'portsnap' and 'portaudit' |
| 15:47.27 |
``Erik |
and ports are
supposed to work fine on RELENG_5, which is now 5.5... you're
running 5.2.1 :) |
| 15:47.41 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 15:47.55 |
``Erik |
single proc
machine? |
| 15:48.13 |
``Erik |
<-- keeps
thinking it's a dual for some reason |
| 15:48.26 |
brlcad |
i was
inclined to upgrade the kernel, but frankly it freaks me a bit to
mess with a stable config |
| 15:48.29 |
brlcad |
it's a
single |
| 15:48.38 |
brlcad |
duals are way
too overpriced |
| 15:49.04 |
brlcad |
heck even
their singles are overpriced now or I would have just bought new
hardware and migrated |
| 15:50.04 |
``Erik |
you're
leasing their hw, right? would it be easier to put together a
machien and coloc it? |
| 15:50.34 |
brlcad |
yep, and not
really |
| 15:50.49 |
brlcad |
the hardware
lease is one of the cheapest parts |
| 15:51.11 |
brlcad |
bandwidth is
the killer, and I got a sweet deal |
| 15:54.17 |
brlcad |
kerash |
| 15:59.05 |
``Erik |
heh,
yeah |
| 15:59.14 |
``Erik |
there was
some initialization command that I forgot or something |
| 15:59.24 |
``Erik |
and it's
seeing damaged ports before it gets there |
| 16:02.27 |
brlcad |
http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad |
| 16:02.59 |
brlcad |
fun with
stats, they hooked us up |
| 16:03.06 |
brlcad |
http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad |
| 16:05.08 |
``Erik |
I'll assume
one of those big jumps in the line count graph was tcl/tk
? |
| 16:05.26 |
``Erik |
not sure what
the other was |
| 16:11.23 |
brlcad |
no, tcl
doesn't cause that much |
| 16:12.02 |
brlcad |
i'm asking
them what the second spike is.. we're not at 4.5 million
lines |
| 16:12.39 |
brlcad |
the first is
the open sourcing, licenses, headers, footers, ws,
reorg |
| 16:13.29 |
brlcad |
thought it
might have been some branch activity, but they show that on HEAD
too |
| 16:13.49 |
``Erik |
hrmmm |
| 16:13.54 |
``Erik |
I wonder if
they count the attic |
| 16:14.15 |
``Erik |
mv lib* src/
could account for that, if they do? |
| 16:16.10 |
brlcad |
i doubt it,
otherwise it would have been much more than double |
| 16:17.28 |
brlcad |
i vaguely
recall accounting for a second spike in the statcvs report, maybe a
ws thing, but then their report should account for that as it looks
like its supposed to be tracking + and - lines |
| 16:19.01 |
brlcad |
./topic
BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near
you... |
| 16:19.05 |
*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid
Modeling || http://brlcad.org ||
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near
you... |
| 16:19.19 |
brlcad |
chmod 775
topic |
| 16:19.25 |
louipc |
woohoo |
| 16:25.18 |
brlcad |
``Erik: ew,
that didn't exist for a reason :P (but I don't really care
either) |
| 16:26.16 |
``Erik |
what didn't?
the pkg shtuff? |
| 16:26.23 |
``Erik |
or /usr/tmp
? |
| 16:26.34 |
brlcad |
tmp |
| 16:26.42 |
``Erik |
I'll remove
it when I'm done *shrug* |
| 16:26.45 |
louipc |
it looks like
MKDIR_P has no value in the Makefile which is causing the make
install error |
| 16:29.09 |
brlcad |
``Erik: as I
said, i don't really care .. it's just been
entertaining/informative to see what tools presumed it
existed |
| 16:29.23 |
``Erik |
hehe |
| 16:29.42 |
``Erik |
you'd be
amazed what goes crazy if you have /usr/Xorg instead of /usr/X11R6
;) |
| 16:29.51 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 16:30.18 |
brlcad |
louipc: hm..
that's odd -- we even provide mkdirp.m4 just in case |
| 16:31.02 |
``Erik |
louipc: is
that straight out of a distributed tarball? or are you running
aclocal and automake? or autogen.sh? |
| 16:31.27 |
louipc |
that's from
CVS & autogen.sh |
| 16:31.44 |
brlcad |
my guess is
your version of automake is doing something ..
different |
| 16:31.54 |
brlcad |
what are your
versions? |
| 16:32.05 |
brlcad |
./autogen.sh
--version |
| 16:33.01 |
louipc |
Autoconf
2.61, automake 1.10, libtool 1.5.22 |
| 16:34.20 |
brlcad |
it could be a
case sensitivity thing.. automake used to use mkdir_p not MKDIR_P
in the Makefiles |
| 16:34.46 |
brlcad |
louipc: try
this, mv m4/mkdirp.m4 misc/ |
| 16:34.48 |
louipc |
oi |
| 16:34.59 |
brlcad |
then redo
autogen.sh, configure, make, etc |
| 16:35.23 |
louipc |
ok |
| 16:38.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: automake 1.10+ seems to use
uppercase instead, subst both upper and lower |
| 16:48.54 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:50.27 |
``Erik |
uhhh, how do
you mean? |
| 16:50.50 |
IriX64 |
that
configure.ac on cvs is *not the full blown one. |
| 16:52.16 |
``Erik |
how is it
not? what's missing? |
| 16:52.45 |
IriX64 |
let me look
again, i downloaded and got 485 bytes. |
| 16:54.24 |
IriX64 |
slap me with
a trout. |
| 16:55.20 |
``Erik |
I'm sorry,
but I don't like you in that tway |
| 16:55.30 |
``Erik |
s/ t/
/ |
| 16:55.41 |
louipc |
I only have
halibut |
| 16:55.59 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 16:56.25 |
IriX64 |
man replace
105kb with 450kb (whatd you do?) |
| 16:56.26 |
brlcad |
when you run
autogen.sh, it generates configure from configure.ac |
| 16:56.36 |
IriX64 |
i know
that. |
| 16:56.51 |
brlcad |
noir:~
morrison$ wc brlcad/configure.ac 3954 12243 123166
brlcad/configure.ac |
| 16:57.00 |
brlcad |
it should be
about 4000 lines |
| 16:59.58 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884544 |
| 17:00.34 |
IriX64 |
thats from
browse cvs man. |
| 17:02.07 |
brlcad |
you saved the
web page |
| 17:02.25 |
IriX64 |
man i clecked
on configure.ac |
| 17:02.27 |
brlcad |
presumably
you pulled that from the cvs web interface |
| 17:02.38 |
IriX64 |
ie
again? |
| 17:02.44 |
brlcad |
nope, your
error ;) |
| 17:02.58 |
IriX64 |
heh all
right, ill keep trying. |
| 17:03.06 |
brlcad |
if you
right-click the download link, it'd work |
| 17:03.07 |
louipc |
clicking the
file will give you a changelog or something |
| 17:03.09 |
brlcad |
but only that
link |
| 17:03.24 |
brlcad |
i.e. it
actually says (download) |
| 17:03.37 |
IriX64 |
as i said
slap me with a halibut. :) |
| 17:03.40 |
brlcad |
not that it
matters |
| 17:03.46 |
``Erik |
irix, have
you looked at http://www.wincvs.org/ |
| 17:03.47 |
brlcad |
that file is
not going to work by itself |
| 17:04.14 |
brlcad |
you can't
just take configure.ac and expect/hope it'll work -- it's tied to
changes throughout the source tree |
| 17:04.37 |
brlcad |
autogen.sh is
stand-alone which is why that one can be updated by
itself |
| 17:05.16 |
brlcad |
i can pretty
much guarantee that using a configure.ac from CVS head will fail on
a 7.8 source tree |
| 17:05.27 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 17:05.44 |
IriX64 |
but still i
click download and it views the bloody thing. |
| 17:05.56 |
brlcad |
right-click,
save as? |
| 17:06.04 |
IriX64 |
saves as
html. |
| 17:06.26 |
brlcad |
not if you
right click the (download) link |
| 17:06.53 |
brlcad |
if you just
hit save on the menu, sure, or right-click one of the other
non-download links, perhaps |
| 17:06.56 |
IriX64 |
ty learned
something. |
| 17:08.02 |
IriX64 |
saves as
configure.ac.txt |
| 17:08.59 |
IriX64 |
my fault the
old one was there to system renamed it automagically :) |
| 17:09.05 |
brlcad |
that's IE for
you |
| 17:09.11 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 17:09.14 |
brlcad |
really should
just use 'cvs' |
| 17:09.29 |
brlcad |
either wincvs
or cvs in cygwin |
| 17:10.29 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, you
should consider installing Firefox |
| 17:10.40 |
brlcad |
or tortoise
cvs, another free windows gui cvs |
| 17:10.48 |
louipc |
or linux
:P |
| 17:10.50 |
Maloeran |
Or just
Linux, that'll solve many other problems too |
| 17:10.53 |
IriX64 |
had it before
the great crash of 2006 |
| 17:10.59 |
``Erik |
or freebsd,
to solve the problems linux creates |
| 17:11.05 |
``Erik |
or openbsd,
or ... :D |
| 17:11.05 |
louipc |
hahaha |
| 17:11.14 |
IriX64 |
or bsd to
solve those ones erik :P |
| 17:11.37 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 17:11.40 |
``Erik |
on a
vax? |
| 17:11.44 |
``Erik |
or a pdp?
:D |
| 17:11.49 |
IriX64 |
actually vms
blows them all away. |
| 17:12.01 |
brlcad |
or just buy a
Mac when you get tired of configuring and/or fighting your OS?
:) |
| 17:12.19 |
IriX64 |
its the apps,
the os is fine :) |
| 17:12.31 |
``Erik |
except after
configuring/fighting osX to get macports all groovy and applisms
extracted, ... *cough* :D |
| 17:13.50 |
IriX64 |
5'll get you
ten i get this to work :P |
| 17:14.00 |
brlcad |
so.. if you
import the configuration environments from other systems.. you end
up needing to configure/fight.. who would have thought! |
| 17:14.28 |
IriX64 |
cooperative
operating systems what a thought :) |
| 17:14.35 |
``Erik |
hehehe, but
it's supposed to be unix! it's mostly fbsd under the hood!
:D |
| 17:14.40 |
IriX64 |
the
unios. |
| 17:14.59 |
``Erik |
a twisted
mutated derivative of fbsd4 with other stuff hammered on in
different places, but ... |
| 17:15.08 |
brlcad |
yes, but it's
a sheep, shaven clean, wearing a leather jacket |
| 17:15.30 |
IriX64 |
that cow is
pisses :P |
| 17:15.36 |
IriX64 |
pissed
too. |
| 17:18.43 |
IriX64 |
he found him
in mombassa, in a bar room drinking Gin,... |
| 17:23.36 |
IriX64 |
just what is
this AM_PATH_SDL not found in library anyway. |
| 17:24.40 |
``Erik |
you need
libsdl installed (with it's m4 fu) to run autogen |
| 17:24.46 |
``Erik |
it's used in
adrt |
| 17:25.07 |
IriX64 |
thats not in
the source tarball? |
| 17:25.31 |
``Erik |
hm, looks
like there's a copy in m4/, n/m :) |
| 17:27.53 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884559 |
| 17:28.18 |
IriX64 |
result of
aclocal followed by automake autogen has already run. |
| 17:28.29 |
``Erik |
aclocal needs
to have -I m4 |
| 17:28.33 |
``Erik |
autogen.sh
does that for you |
| 17:28.47 |
IriX64 |
thank ill try
it. |
| 17:29.11 |
IriX64 |
ill autogen
verbose if you like and pastebin the output. |
| 17:29.25 |
louipc |
neato |
| 17:38.52 |
IriX64 |
autoconf -f
takes a while. |
| 17:42.28 |
IriX64 |
brb |
| 17:43.28 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:06.48 |
IriX64 |
sigh.... i
like a slow hand :) |
| 18:07.57 |
IriX64 |
honest
officer, the last thing on my console is autoconf -f |
| 18:09.54 |
IriX64 |
finally,
running automake. |
| 18:10.33 |
IriX64 |
please don't
tell me you want me to repeat this with 1.10 :) |
| 18:12.29 |
brlcad |
heh,
wow |
| 18:12.57 |
brlcad |
killall with
no args on irix is apparently equivalent to shutdown |
| 18:13.50 |
IriX64 |
just picked
this name to be kewl ;) |
| 18:14.26 |
brlcad |
``Erik: i
think i took down cad if you happen to be going by
there.. |
| 18:15.13 |
brlcad |
it was
failing on mounts to a particular bsd system |
| 18:17.58 |
``Erik |
not
today |
| 18:18.14 |
IriX64 |
missed that
autoheader ran without even a warning. |
| 18:18.16 |
``Erik |
it's a
holiday, yo |
| 18:18.41 |
IriX64 |
same for
autoconf. |
| 18:19.39 |
``Erik |
heh, anyone
with leenewx x86 asm fu wanna help me figure somethin' out?
:D |
| 18:21.06 |
IriX64 |
x86? blame it
on 18.2 ticks per second ``Erik ;) |
| 18:21.19 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:21.33 |
brlcad |
``Erik: it
is? |
| 18:21.51 |
``Erik |
I got a
brainfuck compiler that outputs x86 assembly in both unix and
dos/linux calling conventions... |
| 18:22.11 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 18:22.12 |
``Erik |
works dandy
with the unix calling convention (fbsd), and the simpler test
programs work fine on linux |
| 18:22.20 |
``Erik |
but I have a
more complicated one that fails on linux |
| 18:22.31 |
brlcad |
holy cow, it
is! |
| 18:22.45 |
``Erik |
it should
almost immediately start printing output, but it immediately says
"killed" |
| 18:22.55 |
``Erik |
and even with
-gstabs to as, I can't get a debugger to do anything with
it |
| 18:23.28 |
brlcad |
i was getting
dressed even |
| 18:23.46 |
``Erik |
<--
remembered halfway to the office, turned around in a church parking
lot and left some rbber on the road |
| 18:23.54 |
``Erik |
at ferakin'
seven something this morning |
| 18:24.00 |
brlcad |
hah |
| 18:24.02 |
brlcad |
sucker |
| 18:24.31 |
brlcad |
i mean, er,
nice catch there right-o lad |
| 18:24.34 |
``Erik |
and as I was
driving, I was bitching at myself for not doing anything productive
yesterday (thinking monday)... |
| 18:25.07 |
``Erik |
4 day
weekend, w00 |
| 18:27.44 |
brlcad |
not having to
decide between heroes and work, w00 |
| 18:29.29 |
brlcad |
i think ive
asked you before, but what actually generates the assembler in you
compiler? is it outputting binary in scheme or C or something
else? |
| 18:29.55 |
``Erik |
it's a C
program, reads a bf file and outputs x86 asm |
| 18:30.27 |
``Erik |
./bf2as hi.bf
> hi.s && as -o hi.o hi.s && ld -o hi hi.o
&& ./hi |
| 18:30.45 |
brlcad |
ive toyed
with writing a shell script compiler several times |
| 18:31.00 |
brlcad |
ah, so you
still call as |
| 18:31.22 |
``Erik |
yeah, I have
a shell to generate straight machien code, but I haven't started
filling it in |
| 18:31.54 |
``Erik |
and I have an
interpreter that generates bytecode and executes it, as well as a
version that outputs ansi C code |
| 18:34.16 |
``Erik |
(the
mandelbrot program takes about 50 seconds in the interpreter, 12
seconds as C compiled with -O0, 6 seconds as asm, and 3.5 seconds
as C gcc -O1... a hair more with O2 or O3) |
| 18:52.33 |
IriX64 |
guys, my
beautiful packard bell 3070a 17" monitor kaffed last night, lost
the pincushion, whats retail for a good 17 inch in your country,
i'm debating going new instead of taking it to joes tv repair
shop. |
| 19:02.12 |
``Erik |
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=17+monitor&hl=en&btnG=Search |
| 19:02.20 |
IriX64 |
``Erik,
interesting project, I went the other way, take binary and decode
it to pal neumonics, relativizing the addresses and index cells and
all that, 72 opcodes to work with, but you can take a crash dump,
run it thru this thing and invalid opcodes stick out like a sore
thumb. |
| 19:05.19 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884630 |
| 19:05.32 |
IriX64 |
if you want a
little look at how i did it. |
| 19:05.51 |
IriX64 |
btw automake
is still running :) |
| 19:06.01 |
IriX64 |
no warnings
yet. |
| 19:06.48 |
``Erik |
to do what
now? O.o |
| 19:07.02 |
IriX64 |
wait on
automake ;) |
| 19:08.47 |
IriX64 |
the idea is
to take it and build a crash dump analyzer, problem is you must
have something to produce the crash dump to be read. |
| 19:09.16 |
IriX64 |
tempted to
adapt it to windows. |
| 19:09.17 |
``Erik |
yeah... it
won't produce any kinda dump or anyhting |
| 19:09.34 |
IriX64 |
windows does
a memory dump. |
| 19:09.34 |
``Erik |
it
immediately dies with 'killed', even if I break _start |
| 19:10.09 |
``Erik |
if it crashed
normal, it'd coredump... if it hit an illegal opcode, it'd die with
sigill... |
| 19:10.19 |
IriX64 |
need
something to dump memory before the restart thats all. |
| 19:13.34 |
IriX64 |
if the
machine kaffs, set a flag errm no trap illegal and dump core to
disk? |
| 19:14.55 |
IriX64 |
meantime back
at the cpu, automake waves and keeps on trucking:) |
| 19:15.34 |
brlcad |
you used to
run a bbs? |
| 19:15.51 |
IriX64 |
many years
ago yes. |
| 19:16.08 |
IriX64 |
now where'd
that come from? |
| 19:16.17 |
IriX64 |
whatd i
paste. |
| 19:16.56 |
IriX64 |
The DogStar
bbs, ===> finest kinnd. :) |
| 19:17.38 |
brlcad |
just
wondering, used to sysop years ago myself |
| 19:17.45 |
IriX64 |
as? |
| 19:18.13 |
IriX64 |
meaning bbs
name? |
| 19:19.55 |
IriX64 |
remeber Juge,
he's famous :) |
| 19:20.17 |
brlcad |
ah hell, I
don't remember .. it was 20 years ago |
| 19:20.33 |
IriX64 |
heh does Juge
still have his up? |
| 19:20.37 |
brlcad |
do remember
we changed the name a couple times |
| 19:20.55 |
IriX64 |
I toyed with
that. |
| 19:21.02 |
IriX64 |
had a lot of
fun. |
| 19:21.45 |
brlcad |
played with
pcboard, but mostly used wwiv |
| 19:22.07 |
brlcad |
at least if
memory serves.. |
| 19:22.13 |
IriX64 |
both good
systems, i like wildcat too. |
| 19:22.18 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 19:22.33 |
IriX64 |
mine was
based on adept, os2 pm app , sweet. |
| 19:26.34 |
brlcad |
zone 4
fidonet seems to ring a bell |
| 19:31.29 |
Maloeran |
A nice
gesture of sanity, it seems Maryland is going to ban capital
punishment... though you guys surely know that already |
| 19:34.52 |
brlcad |
not much of
an issue for maryland, there have only been 5 total in the past 30
years |
| 19:35.53 |
brlcad |
pretty
clear-cut cases of guilt too iirc, regardless of whether you agree
with the punishment |
| 19:37.40 |
Maloeran |
I see. With 5
cases in 30 years, it has to be rather exceptional |
| 19:39.07 |
brlcad |
pretty
much |
| 19:41.36 |
brlcad |
I think one
of the first ones actually dropped his plea and requested
execution |
| 19:45.51 |
IriX64 |
this goes
beyond patience tonic, but i'll have another swig. |
| 19:48.25 |
IriX64 |
those days
bitch slap ``Erik for saying that :) |
| 19:49.38 |
``Erik |
(heh, yeah,
maryland is a little less killhappy than, say,
texas....) |
| 19:49.41 |
``Erik |
morning,
mal |
| 19:52.19 |
Maloeran |
Hey Erik,
feel free to tell me where RF crashes on big endian if you
try |
| 19:52.39 |
``Erik |
tomorrie :)
and iirc, it wasn't crashing, just showing the wrong
colors |
| 19:52.46 |
Maloeran |
And don't try
little<->big endian distributed processing yet, I'm not
swapping bytes for user messages |
| 19:53.10 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I need
to test the geometry group file format too |
| 19:53.46 |
``Erik |
care to
entertain a linux/x86/asm problem, mal? I'm as lost as irix64 at a
kbd :D |
| 19:53.55 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran? You
two were discussing multi-cpu clusters the other day. |
| 19:54.16 |
Maloeran |
I read above,
Erik, but... I'm not too used to syscalls, I rather call libc
functions |
| 19:54.26 |
``Erik |
well, I d'no
if that's the issue here |
| 19:54.39 |
``Erik |
the simple
ones that use syscalls work, the complex one doesn't... it gives me
this |
| 19:54.40 |
``Erik |
$ uname -mo ;
as -o mandelbrot-as.o mandelbrot-as.s && ld -o
mandelbrot-as mandelbrot-as.o && ./mandelbrot-as ; echo
$? |
| 19:54.40 |
``Erik |
i686
GNU/Linux |
| 19:54.40 |
``Erik |
Killed |
| 19:54.40 |
``Erik |
137 |
| 19:54.41 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, yes
we were |
| 19:55.04 |
Maloeran |
What does gdb
say? |
| 19:55.18 |
IriX64 |
if you have a
40 cpu cluster what if you make it such that there is a master cpu
to dole out tasks that need running to first idle cpu and what if
you had a memory pool with memory doled out on a per task
guestimate basis? |
| 19:56.03 |
``Erik |
mal: http://paste.lisp.org/submit |
| 19:56.28 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, most
such clusters use NUMA, you have multiple memory banks and you want
each processor to work on its own local data |
| 19:56.43 |
Maloeran |
Erik, what do
you want me to paste there? |
| 19:56.47 |
brlcad |
er, most
commercial at least |
| 19:56.56 |
IriX64 |
i envision a
pool instead of banks maybe a little more overhead but
doable. |
| 19:57.44 |
Maloeran |
You are going
to choke your memory bus if the 40 processors all go to the same
memory bank |
| 19:57.45 |
``Erik |
oh, hah,
woops |
| 19:57.46 |
``Erik |
sorry |
| 19:57.51 |
``Erik |
http://paste.lisp.org/display/37073 |
| 19:57.57 |
``Erik |
pasted the
wrong piece |
| 19:58.02 |
IriX64 |
a pool of
banks Malorean. |
| 19:58.37 |
Maloeran |
The banks are
local to each processor for a good reason, it's faster to access
them due to the reduced routing circuitry |
| 19:59.02 |
Maloeran |
Woohoo,
that's neat Erik. What's the code? |
| 19:59.42 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/mandelbrot-as.s |
| 20:00.51 |
brlcad |
typo on line
562 |
| 20:00.57 |
brlcad |
*ahem*
:) |
| 20:01.03 |
``Erik |
it's
generated |
| 20:01.05 |
``Erik |
so it's
fugly |
| 20:01.55 |
``Erik |
(but it's
generated, so if there's a typo, it's gonna appear many
places |
| 20:01.58 |
brlcad |
sure you're
not blowing the heap or something |
| 20:02.02 |
Maloeran |
It runs for
me after a quick fix, outputting nice letters |
| 20:02.14 |
``Erik |
what quick
fix? |
| 20:02.29 |
``Erik |
brlcad: it
works dandy on fbsd, and the C varients runs dandy with teh same
sized heap |
| 20:02.38 |
Maloeran |
Renaming
_start to main and gcc foo.s -o foo |
| 20:02.47 |
``Erik |
hmmmmmmmm |
| 20:03.11 |
``Erik |
that,
uh |
| 20:03.16 |
``Erik |
<--
scratches his chin |
| 20:03.35 |
brlcad |
if renaming
_start does the trick.. that would likely be some frame setup /
heap problem .. |
| 20:03.40 |
``Erik |
yeahhhh |
| 20:04.04 |
``Erik |
maaaybe I
need to actually walk the heap and set everything to 0 |
| 20:04.12 |
Maloeran |
How did you
create your faulty executable? |
| 20:04.28 |
``Erik |
hrm? I pasted
the line up there a bit |
| 20:04.53 |
``Erik |
heh, it works
with teh same sized heap in other places, dude... I bet it's an
init thing |
| 20:05.19 |
``Erik |
perhaps fbsd
sets memory in the fork or exec syscall and linux depends on the
program startup code in libc to do it? *shrug* |
| 20:05.20 |
Maloeran |
Erik, what
commands did you use to assemble and link? |
| 20:05.30 |
``Erik |
<``Erik> $ uname -mo ; as -o
mandelbrot-as.o mandelbrot-as.s && ld -o mandelbrot-as
mandelbrot-as.o && ./mandelbrot-as ; echo $? |
| 20:05.39 |
Maloeran |
Ah right,
sorry |
| 20:06.33 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 20:06.35 |
brlcad |
"What's going
to happen to the 3D market once Google licenses and further
develops BRL-CAD? I can see them doing this but releasing it on one
of their appliances." - Paul Bowers, USA |
| 20:07.41 |
``Erik |
http://www.upfrontezine.com/2005/upf-431.htm
? |
| 20:08.04 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 20:11.31 |
IriX64 |
wheres Mr.
Tromey? why is there no progress indicator on this thing
;) |
| 20:12.05 |
louipc |
huh? Google
is taking over BRL-CAD? |
| 20:12.40 |
Maloeran |
By the way
Erik, your .s file works for me with _start too, I just had the
reflex of letting gcc do the linking |
| 20:17.51 |
brlcad |
IriX64: on
what? |
| 20:18.22 |
Maloeran |
That's quite
slow, Erik ;) |
| 20:18.41 |
Maloeran |
If you really
are working on a Brainfuck optimizer that is |
| 20:18.45 |
``Erik |
well,
ok |
| 20:18.49 |
``Erik |
what's a fast
way to zero the heap |
| 20:19.39 |
Maloeran |
I don't
suppose you want to hear about a SSE loop with prefetches, but at
least use rep movsq or rep movsd |
| 20:21.48 |
``Erik |
stosd looks
better |
| 20:22.01 |
Maloeran |
Oops,
indeed |
| 20:24.19 |
Maloeran |
instructions
also |
| 20:38.42 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884697 |
| 20:38.47 |
IriX64 |
it
failed. |
| 20:44.00 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884699
<this is what i get running them manually with no
switches. |
| 20:47.02 |
Maloeran |
Ah, aren't
autoconf, automake and libtool just great |
| 20:49.45 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884705
<==== this is what the gebnerated configure does, no jokes about
my system please. |
| 20:50.12 |
IriX64 |
remember i
have successfully built from this source and ran the
product. |
| 20:50.45 |
louipc |
I'm getting
problems and I'm on linux :P |
| 20:51.02 |
IriX64 |
ran then in
this order aclocal, autoconf, autoheader and automake. |
| 20:52.11 |
IriX64 |
running the
script(when it succeeds, the syntax errors are not
there) |
| 20:53.10 |
IriX64 |
confirmed, i
just ran the script, automake fails but the generated configure
does its job. |
| 20:57.21 |
IriX64 |
now it can't
find x |
| 20:58.12 |
IriX64 |
and it tries
to restart using config.site *doh* this is first time. |
| 20:59.22 |
IriX64 |
errands to
run l8r all |
| 21:05.41 |
``Erik |
heh, that'd
put me over 20 makefiles, dude |
| 21:06.23 |
``Erik |
aaaand, very
interesting, if the first thing I do in this program is attempt to
exit, it still fails... hmmm |
| 21:06.47 |
brlcad |
IriX64 isn't
exactly the typical autoconf'ing user .. he seems to mindlessly
edit files and then wonder why stuf breaks |
| 21:07.41 |
``Erik |
heh, or
extract an old tarball, copy one very new (and incompatable) file
in and try that |
| 21:08.07 |
``Erik |
at least he's
trying :) |
| 21:09.15 |
brlcad |
problem is he
starts on faulty premises *most* of the time.. tools not
setup/installed correctly, stuff missing, stuff edited incorrectly,
mismatches |
| 21:09.41 |
brlcad |
i mean,
autoreconf/autogen.sh failed on him and yet he still tried to run
configure... |
| 21:10.55 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: and
as for his specific errors.. he is using a new configure.ac against
old sources that I told him outright would not work, yet he insists
on trying |
| 21:17.14 |
dtidrow |
brlcad: must
need to use a bigger cluebat ;-) |
| 21:20.56 |
louipc |
mmm mv
m4/mkdirp.m4 misc/, autogen, configure, make, make install fails
with same error |
| 21:21.29 |
louipc |
how do you
set that variable in the Makefiles? |
| 21:21.43 |
louipc |
(I'm kind of
a noob) |
| 21:22.39 |
louipc |
oh no
wait |
| 21:23.05 |
louipc |
ignore
me |
| 21:24.40 |
``Erik |
I just saved
a bunch of money on my car insurance by threatening my agent with a
golf club! |
| 21:49.25 |
brlcad |
louipc: hm,
perhaps move mkdirp.m4 back and edit that file |
| 21:49.42 |
brlcad |
then
add: |
| 21:49.52 |
brlcad |
MKDIR_P="$mkdir_p" |
| 21:50.11 |
brlcad |
AC_SUBST([MKDIR_P]) |
| 21:50.23 |
brlcad |
before the
last AC_SUBST at the end of the file |
| 21:50.55 |
louipc |
you put that
as the last two lines of the file yeah |
| 21:51.22 |
brlcad |
yeah,
typo'd |
| 21:51.35 |
brlcad |
just
noticed |
| 21:51.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: typo |
| 21:51.59 |
brlcad |
have to put
them BEFORE the last line, else it's not inside the
macro |
| 21:52.17 |
louipc |
oooh |
| 21:55.34 |
louipc |
I see
now |
| 22:09.58 |
``Erik |
http://xkcd.com/c180.html |
| 22:15.03 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:23.52 |
``Erik |
I might print
this one for my door... http://xkcd.com/c217.html |
| 22:53.12 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:03.25 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.112.46) |
| 23:13.49 |
Maloeran |
I think I'm
amazed that all these common chess openings and counter-moves have
a name on wikipedia, every one of them |
| 23:14.43 |
``Erik |
I'm amazed
that there's a wikipedia page for "ray's urine" |
| 23:14.46 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 23:14.53 |
louipc |
hey
success |
| 23:15.28 |
louipc |
hah
hah |
| 23:16.03 |
brlcad |
louipc:
excellent |
| 23:22.11 |
IriX64 |
dropped back
to distributed configure.ac, compiling now (thanks for the bleeding
knuckles ;)) |
| 23:23.07 |
louipc |
;) |
| 23:38.49 |
brlcad |
Twingy:
frederick county has legislation going in to boost the county's
solar incentive from 3k to 15k |
| 23:40.14 |
Twingy |
not too
shabby |
| 23:40.46 |
Twingy |
a bit of a
drive to work though |
| 23:41.39 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 23:42.08 |
brlcad |
that's got to
be lobbying from Solar or whatever their name is out
there |
| 23:42.22 |
brlcad |
that big
solar panel company right off the interstate |
| 23:42.22 |
Twingy |
nano
solar? |
| 23:42.29 |
Twingy |
oh, no
clue |
| 23:42.52 |
brlcad |
you can't
miss them driving down I70 .. massive factory covered in
panels |
| 23:43.28 |
Twingy |
ah, haven't
traveled down I70 since I went to buy my fireworks in 2003 I
think |
| 23:43.46 |
Twingy |
maybe a
different interstate I'm thinking of |
| 23:44.08 |
Twingy |
I'm not even
sure if I've ever been on I70 |
| 23:44.24 |
brlcad |
I think BP
Global might have bought them out a few years ago |
| 23:44.35 |
brlcad |
but the
company's name was just "Solar" iirc |
| 23:44.58 |
Twingy |
too bad MD is
only 20% still |
| 23:45.15 |
Twingy |
15k means
you'd have to spend 75k |
| 23:45.30 |
Twingy |
fed is 30%,
but only 2k |
| 23:45.32 |
brlcad |
ahh, yep..
"BP Solar" now |
| 23:45.34 |
brlcad |
http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=3050487&contentId=3060089 |
| 23:45.59 |
brlcad |
news claimed
it would cover 50% |
| 23:46.25 |
Twingy |
I need to buy
2 more soon |
| 23:47.05 |
brlcad |
you could
have had some interesting "neighbors" .. http://www.solarneighbors.com/ |
| 23:49.32 |
Twingy |
cnc'ing a jig
right now |
| 23:51.08 |
brlcad |
ahh, that
picture on bp is the frederick plant, apparently the main factory
(and the company they took over was called Solarex (makers of
solarex panels of course)) |
| 23:51.45 |
Twingy |
hopefully
more people start putting panels on their roofs |
| 23:53.08 |
Twingy |
MRI? |
| 23:53.14 |
Twingy |
I did that a
couple of times |
| 23:53.23 |
brlcad |
looks like
it, but unspecified |
| 23:53.28 |
Twingy |
how many
teslas was the scanner you were in? |
| 23:53.41 |
brlcad |
haven't done
it yet |
| 23:53.44 |
Twingy |
oh |
| 23:54.10 |
brlcad |
if they're
not going to give me the data, then they can go play with
themselves in the scanner for all I care |
| 23:54.12 |
Twingy |
the
resolution of the stuff they do for functional MRI case studies is
pretty low |
| 23:54.31 |
Twingy |
only like
100-200 slices |
| 23:54.48 |
brlcad |
that was
going to be my follow-up, but I almost expect it .. though nih does
have the equipment for better.. just depends whom |
| 23:55.17 |
Twingy |
it depends on
how long they are willing to keep you in the machine |
| 23:55.24 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 23:55.26 |
Twingy |
the really
high detailed stuff takes several hours to collect |
| 23:55.33 |
Twingy |
some case
studies are over night |
| 23:55.39 |
Twingy |
you just
sleep in the machine |
| 23:56.53 |
Twingy |
chris cornell
left audioslave |
| 23:57.18 |
brlcad |
so you're
going to try and hire him |
| 23:57.32 |
Twingy |
not sure what
use he would be to me :) |
| 23:57.46 |
brlcad |
a walking
ipod |
| 23:57.59 |
Twingy |
right... |
| 23:58.15 |
Twingy |
you saw what
happened to my last ipod... |
| 23:58.21 |
brlcad |
hah |
| 23:58.38 |
brlcad |
i can just
picture it now |
| 23:59.24 |
brlcad |
that'd be a
great family guy flashback |
| 00:07.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: export bu_argv0 |
| 00:15.29 |
IriX64 |
http://pastebin.com/884885
<===== for the record regressed back to distributed configure.ac
and automake-1.9.6 |
| 00:16.16 |
louipc |
IriX64: try
using the latest CVS it should work now |
| 00:16.31 |
louipc |
with automake
1.10 |
| 00:16.36 |
IriX64 |
don't do CVS
;) |
| 00:16.46 |
IriX64 |
btw its
installing fine too. |
| 00:17.48 |
louipc |
man pastebin
is lagging |
| 00:17.59 |
IriX64 |
noticed
that. |
| 00:18.41 |
IriX64 |
errr did you
say it *works with 1.10? |
| 00:18.51 |
louipc |
yes |
| 00:18.59 |
brlcad |
~pastebin |
| 00:19.00 |
ibot |
from memory,
pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the
channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites |
| 00:19.02 |
IriX64 |
the make
install part too? |
| 00:20.04 |
IriX64 |
louipc? |
| 00:20.06 |
louipc |
yeah it was a
problem with an empty variable because automake decided to name it
with all caps out of the blue |
| 00:20.40 |
louipc |
you just need
autogen.sh and m4/mkdirp.m4 |
| 00:20.43 |
brlcad |
why it didn't
work when you removed our mkdirp.m4 is still a mystery, but
whatever it works |
| 00:21.25 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 00:21.46 |
IriX64 |
takes a good
man ;) |
| 00:22.42 |
brlcad |
to do an evil
deed? |
| 00:22.44 |
IriX64 |
now to play
with it, I'll be seriously neglecting the window for a while
:) |
| 00:23.05 |
IriX64 |
s
/this/the |
| 00:23.57 |
IriX64 |
evil has
Eve's name in it for a reason. |
| 00:25.47 |
IriX64 |
12 minute
install time, gotta get a faster toaster. |
| 00:32.27 |
``Erik |
paste.lisp.org is teh seckzie |
| 00:44.27 |
brlcad |
sucky?
*duck* |
| 00:50.24 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: searching for a text editor..
needs the path on argv0, not just the name of the binary unless
it's going to go hunting for it with bu_which(). |
| 00:51.35 |
louipc |
brlcad: I
think it did work when I moved mkdirp.m4, just an error on my part
hence 'oh no wait. ignore me' :P |
| 01:04.16 |
brlcad |
louipc: ahh,
okay.. good to know then, thx |
| 01:04.20 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/dirname.c: extract bu_dirname() from
malloc.c and put it in its own file. should consider using
dirname() since it's part of posix (along with rt_basename() ->
basename()). |
| 01:06.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add dirname.c to the
compilation |
| 01:07.04 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: remove bu_dirname(), was
moved to new file dirname.c. |
| 01:14.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/malloc.c): get rid of
the bu_strdup() dead code and comment how it's really an interface
macro pass through that provides file:line info when bu debugging
is enabled |
| 01:17.38 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp
misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add dirname.c to the msvc
build files |
| 01:20.54 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: at least for now.. bu_dirname()
instead of dirname() |
| 01:55.27 |
IriX64 |
why is castle
all white and yellow ;) |
| 01:58.55 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/364290 |
| 03:11.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): make sure
argv is set to avoid btclsh sourcing errors |
| 03:11.49 |
louipc |
brlcad
includes the latest utah-raster? 3.1b yeah? |
| 03:12.27 |
louipc |
circa
1996 |
| 03:17.41 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): naming consistency,
rename rt_dspline.c sans prefix to dspline.c |
| 03:20.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/dspline.c):
rename references of rt_dspline.c to dspline.c |
| 03:24.06 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: eek, double Lesser
Lesser |
| 03:32.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): less Lesser |
| 03:33.11 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_fgets.c: ws |
| 03:38.08 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): naming consistency,
rename bu_fgets.c to fgets.c |
| 03:38.57 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: bu_fgets.c
was missing from the vc7 build file, but we can just go ahead and
add its rename of fgets.c |
| 03:39.14 |
brlcad |
louipc: yes,
plus all patches as of last year |
| 03:39.35 |
louipc |
oh
wow |
| 03:39.51 |
brlcad |
plus a few
build fixes of our own, but nothing critical |
| 03:39.51 |
louipc |
yeah it looks
like a real mess in there |
| 03:41.04 |
louipc |
I was going
to make a packages of some stuff in other/ so I don't have to keep
re-compiling it and such |
| 03:41.22 |
brlcad |
yeah, we also
don't quell their compilation warnings (same for most things in
src/other) either, so it whines about quite a few things during
compilation |
| 03:41.38 |
brlcad |
some of them
are in package systems |
| 03:43.04 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use a filesystem
group, these routines have nothing to do with logging |
| 03:44.14 |
brlcad |
blt and
iwidgets are often not available (but hard as hell to detect during
configure) as well as openNURBS and tkimg .. everything else can
usually be found |
| 03:44.53 |
louipc |
is a lot of
this being developed any more? |
| 03:44.56 |
brlcad |
configure
will automatically disable the compilation of anything it detects
by default unless you enable an option that says to compile
them |
| 03:45.02 |
brlcad |
a lot of
what? |
| 03:45.08 |
louipc |
other/ |
| 03:45.11 |
brlcad |
oh
yeah |
| 03:46.27 |
brlcad |
the stable or
otherwise dead codes are urtoolkit, awf, jove, libpng, libregex,
libtermlib, libutahrle (part of URT), and libz |
| 03:46.57 |
brlcad |
the others
are fairly active, blt, incrTcl, iwidgets, tcl, tk, openNURBS,
tkimg |
| 03:47.01 |
louipc |
ah you split
urt into two |
| 03:47.48 |
brlcad |
yeah, not a
great decision in hindsight, but it still has its
benefits |
| 03:47.52 |
louipc |
I downloaded
the src from an ftp server and I'm not sure what to do with it
hah |
| 03:49.32 |
brlcad |
oh yeah, we
did rewrite their build system too, so it compiles more reliably
and cross-platform |
| 03:49.49 |
brlcad |
but then that
goes for just about everything in other |
| 03:50.26 |
louipc |
ouch |
| 03:51.52 |
louipc |
I guess I'll
start with what you say is still active then |
| 03:52.14 |
louipc |
thanks |
| 03:53.13 |
brlcad |
which
packaging system? |
| 03:53.26 |
louipc |
archlinux |
| 03:53.29 |
louipc |
pacman |
| 03:53.30 |
brlcad |
ahh, that's
right |
| 03:54.58 |
brlcad |
fwiw, tcl/tk
cannot be disabled in the current sources due to run-time path
resource lookups that tcl tries to do (in order to use a system
tcl), but then that is actually what i'm working on
tonight |
| 03:55.20 |
brlcad |
it's been a
long-standing problem with using a system tcl/tk |
| 03:55.42 |
louipc |
ah neat yeah
you said gentoo people and others were complaining about
it |
| 03:56.05 |
brlcad |
that same
issue trickles over to incrtcl, iwidgets, and blt, but this fix
should take care of them all in one swoop |
| 03:56.14 |
brlcad |
yeah all of
the packaging systems |
| 03:56.39 |
brlcad |
tk was the
biggest problem, as we actually had additions made to their sources
that we required |
| 03:57.04 |
brlcad |
but I've
since rewritten and removed the modifications so it can work with a
vanilla tk |
| 03:57.58 |
louipc |
ah |
| 04:02.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:02.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: john
continued to rock when he wrote bu_fgets() to allow
automatic |
| 04:02.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
cross-platform line handling ala fgets(), which doesn't necessarily
handle all |
| 04:02.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: of
the various line endings that can be encountered (CR, LF, and CR/LF
being the |
| 04:02.50 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
predominant ones). in particular, this fix addresses a bug that was
reported on |
| 04:02.53 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
windows with dxf-g parsing files from another platform incorrectly.
note the |
| 04:02.55 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: fix
as it applies to dxf-g at least. |
| 04:04.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fgets.c: whoops, formatting asterick
garbage on M-q |
| 04:12.36 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: should use bu_fgets() instead of
fgets() since john's addition makes file for improved
cross-platform processing support in general (parsing unix files on
Windows, windows files on unix, etc). |
| 04:14.40 |
``Erik |
jra++ |
| 04:15.03 |
``Erik |
if he wasn't
so insanely impressive, I think I'd have moved my office
downstairs. |
| 04:15.33 |
``Erik |
his gooby sh
questions are well worth the "whoa, check me, yo"
moments |
| 04:19.46 |
brlcad |
yeah, he's
like a machine |
| 04:20.38 |
brlcad |
i think this
update might just be one helluva collection of "bug fixes" if you
consider the inability to parse foreign files a bug |
| 04:21.08 |
brlcad |
gonna hit
almost half the tools, about 150 tools |
| 04:22.27 |
brlcad |
250
instances |
| 04:24.10 |
Maloeran |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa
- This is a very nice board game, seems more interesting than
Go |
| 04:38.42 |
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| 06:23.21 |
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| 06:23.21 |
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[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:23.21 |
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| 06:24.52 |
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| 07:26.26 |
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| 07:47.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: oop, bu_argv0 requires an
argument |
| 07:51.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: |
| 07:51.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
turns out that anything being compiled static with gcc and against
openNURBS |
| 07:51.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
needs the -fexceptions flag, that's what was causing the
UnwindResume linkage |
| 07:51.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
error. link conv-vg2g (ugh, needs renaming) and euclid_unformat
against libbu |
| 07:51.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
(needed for bu_fgets). |
| 07:54.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (9 files): convert to bu_fgets(),
which of course adds a libbu dependency if there wasn't one
already. this allows processing of foreign text files with
different line endings more consistently. |
| 08:05.58 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): revert the
introduction of a libbu dependency to adrt, it's somewhat
inconsequential value added just to get bu_getopt processing
compared to the benefit of it still compiling stand-alone if
needed. |
| 08:10.52 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: heh, -lm is not
a CFLAG, add it to LIBADD instead using LIBM (still need to get
adrt's subconfigure working cleanly). |
| 08:20.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (64 files in 22 dirs): |
| 08:20.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
update all usages of fgets() to instead use john's swanktastic
bu_fgets() that |
| 08:20.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
behaves as one would generally want regardless of the line ending
type of the |
| 08:20.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
compilation platform or of the input files. bu_fgets() responds to
input files |
| 08:20.19 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: that
use CR (usually old mac), LF (usually unix, new mac), or CR/LF
(usually |
| 08:20.21 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
windows) for the line ending so now these file do too effectivley
squashing |
| 08:20.23 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
buggish/bad behavior. |
| 08:32.37 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:32.37 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
john's bu_fgets() fun and my update to the various tools that
needed it ends up |
| 08:32.37 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
improved the end-of-line (EOL) processing in about 70+ tools.
basically any |
| 08:32.37 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
command that read in a text file using fgets(). this fix is
particularly |
| 08:32.37 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
relevant for running our tools on windows where data files are
frequently |
| 08:32.39 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
migrated from the unix/linux/max side without a line-ending
conversion. |
| 08:39.20 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:56.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 08:56.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
bu_getprogname seems to be behaving now, so use it for selection of
the |
| 08:56.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
executable name unless it does return null for some reason -- then
default back |
| 08:56.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: to
just 'mged'. try (again?) to set auto_path before Tcl_Init since we
need to |
| 08:56.25 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD: set
up auto_path before init so the scripts, including init.tcl, can be
found. |
| 08:58.31 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: search for tcl/tk 8.5 too
(we're upgrading to it now) |
| 09:05.43 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: add support for
the newer tk 8.5 Tk_PhotoExpand and Tk_PhotoPutBlock functions that
now expect an interp parameter, but retain compilation
functionality on previous versions too |
| 09:07.49 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltNsUtil.h: comment out a
couple function declarations that are apparently declared, at least
in 8.5 though they're different/conflicting |
| 09:10.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itcl_util.c: the
specified internal assumptions being made by blt don't hold with
tcl 8.5 (in particular the set macro doesn't exist), so just
comment out that section of code. |
| 09:17.43 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: add missing dependency
on Tcl |
| 09:20.07 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: create an
openNURBS noinst library so that we can fully resolve librtserver
if brep support is enabled |
| 09:22.05 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: conditionally include
opennurbs into libbrlcad (via the new noinst library) so that we
can fully resolve all librt symbols |
| 09:30.42 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/extern.h nirt/showshot.c): need
bu.h for bu_fgets() |
| 12:55.13 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
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| 13:45.16 |
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| 16:28.29 |
Maloeran |
Hum. I'm
sorry to bother you with that, I wanted to familiarize myself with
SURVICE's archer, what is this : Error in startup script: couldn't
load file "/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so": /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so:
undefined symbol: png_read_destroy ? |
| 16:31.40 |
Maloeran |
Assuming
that's why ./archer gives me a nice white X window |
| 16:37.10 |
Maloeran |
Actually,
that white window is bwish |
| 16:58.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 17:25.15 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: libpng.txt
was moved to libpng-1.2.16.txt |
| 17:26.32 |
Maloeran |
Erik, any
tips about running Archer? |
| 17:27.13 |
``Erik |
um |
| 17:27.14 |
``Erik |
sure |
| 17:27.15 |
``Erik |
use
windows |
| 17:27.36 |
Maloeran |
It's supposed
to run on Linux, is it not? |
| 17:28.26 |
``Erik |
um, mark said
that it should, but windows is their dev platform *shrug* the error
you're getting might be fixed by preloading libpng.so?
*shrug* |
| 17:28.43 |
``Erik |
LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libpng.so
./archer |
| 17:29.05 |
Maloeran |
Error
remains |
| 17:29.10 |
``Erik |
(or making
tkimg.so link to libpng) |
| 17:29.32 |
``Erik |
does your
libpng have that symbol? ... |
| 17:30.21 |
Maloeran |
Doesn't seem
to! |
| 17:31.05 |
Maloeran |
Upgrading
libpng from 1.2.12-r1 to 1.2.13 though that's not likely to
help |
| 17:31.08 |
``Erik |
hm, upgrade
it? |
| 17:31.41 |
``Erik |
1.2.13? wow,
how ancient :D 1.2.16 is included in BRL-CAD these
days... |
| 17:37.43 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: it
does run on linux, but the version of archer in CVS hasn't been
"fixed" to work out of the box |
| 17:38.44 |
Maloeran |
Oh. I suppose
there's no quick and easy fix available? |
| 17:38.45 |
brlcad |
tkimg plugin
is failing to load because of that png symbol is a linker issue in
tkimg (or version problem with libpng) |
| 17:39.01 |
brlcad |
quick and
easy if you're familiar with archer, sure ;) |
| 17:40.20 |
brlcad |
what does ldd
on /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so say regarding libpng? |
| 17:41.59 |
Maloeran |
Linked to
libpng12.so.0 |
| 17:44.20 |
Maloeran |
Same problem
with 1.2.15, last version of libpng in Gentoo package
tree |
| 17:46.33 |
Maloeran |
Same problem
with latest libpng CVS |
| 17:47.37 |
``Erik |
$ nm -D
/usr/local/lib/libpng.so | grep png_read_destroy |
| 17:47.37 |
``Erik |
00000000000098f0 T
png_read_destroy |
| 17:48.23 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 17:48.37 |
``Erik |
is that
because linux is obviously superior? :D *duck* |
| 17:49.27 |
louipc |
Maloeran: not
gentoo!? |
| 17:49.27 |
``Erik |
the symbol is
there on rhat |
| 17:49.40 |
``Erik |
and
suse |
| 17:50.57 |
Maloeran |
http://rafb.net/p/GZGe0y78.html
- Look, I'm not dreaming |
| 17:51.01 |
``Erik |
and debian...
hehehe.... |
| 17:51.13 |
``Erik |
it's too bad
funroll-loops.org doesn't seem to be responding... O:-) |
| 17:51.24 |
louipc |
:P |
| 17:51.59 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: you
can relink tkimg.so with static libpng and if you really do have a
sufficient version, it should resolve |
| 17:55.37 |
louipc |
I don't have
that symbol either |
| 17:55.37 |
Maloeran |
louipc, what
I basically want is a Linux from scratch, except... with some
package management system, and Gentoo fulfills that |
| 17:55.57 |
``Erik |
huh, it's not
an optional symbol in 1.2.16... it's a basic part of cleaning up
after you read an image O.o |
| 17:57.16 |
louipc |
Maloeran:
have you tried archlinux? It's a lot less compiling but you can
custom compile packages as well |
| 17:57.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, I don't
see how you can optionally compile it out either with one of the
PNG_* flags |
| 17:57.56 |
louipc |
the package
management system is a lot more straight forward too |
| 17:58.01 |
Maloeran |
It's not
really about packages, it's about the whole set up and scripts. I
don't want a distribution to force its maze of scripts on
me |
| 17:58.19 |
``Erik |
ssoooooo cut
their scripts out of the loop? |
| 17:58.37 |
brlcad |
oh, wait..
there is a overall flag.. PNG_READ_SUPPORTED .. if they compiled
with that off, it leaves out all of the routines |
| 17:58.45 |
brlcad |
including
png_read_destroy |
| 17:58.50 |
Maloeran |
It's tricky,
it's often a huge mess. I prefer to start with a clean distribution
like Gentoo |
| 18:00.57 |
louipc |
I've got
png_read_end *image *info *png *row *rows *update_info |
| 18:01.03 |
louipc |
no destroy
:( |
| 18:01.28 |
Maloeran |
Exactly |
| 18:03.12 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: it
could also be a bad assumption in tkimg -- it has a stubs lookup
table for png_read_destroy -- but it doesn'tactually use the
function |
| 18:03.50 |
brlcad |
you could
just remove it from src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtclDecls.h and
pngtclDeclsMask.h |
| 18:04.16 |
brlcad |
and
src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtclStubInit.c |
| 18:08.54 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: ADRT interface |
| 18:09.22 |
``Erik |
fek, it's
catching them now |
| 18:10.13 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: the comparison
engine |
| 18:12.17 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: move the display back to the
end, so the nmg_triangulate spew doesn't obfuscate the
results |
| 18:23.31 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:24.07 |
Maloeran |
Sorry, was
away for a bit. png_write_destroy undefined as well, hacking some
more |
| 18:25.44 |
Maloeran |
Ah finally,
there we go, thanks |
| 18:27.10 |
Maloeran |
It works
until "Error, can't find package blt", that is. |
| 18:27.23 |
``Erik |
so make it a
sandwich, bitch |
| 18:28.02 |
``Erik |
blt == bacon
lettuce tomato |
| 18:28.03 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 18:34.13 |
Maloeran |
Okay, I'll
give up on Archer for now. Mark wanted to know about integrating RF
in it |
| 18:38.48 |
IriX64_ |
Maloeran?
windows archer or *nix archer? |
| 18:39.51 |
Maloeran |
Linux archer
of course |
| 18:39.59 |
IriX64_ |
ty |
| 18:50.49 |
IriX64 |
goof that i
am sigh ... |
| 18:53.24 |
``Erik |
heh, it's a
bit of a walk |
| 18:54.56 |
IriX64 |
any wild
beasten would disagree with me though :) |
| 18:56.59 |
IriX64 |
``Erik
promptly roars with hunger. |
| 18:57.16 |
louipc |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.32 |
IriX64 |
not
following? |
| 18:58.02 |
``Erik |
and that's
why drugs are bad. |
| 18:58.41 |
IriX64 |
heh you paint
with a broadsword there you know that. |
| 18:59.21 |
louipc |
wide
brush? |
| 18:59.57 |
IriX64 |
very |
| 19:17.11 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, would
it be possible for you to quickly put me on the right track to
solve this "Error, can't find package blt"? |
| 19:17.38 |
``Erik |
sounds like a
tcl path error |
| 19:17.49 |
``Erik |
when you
built brlcad, did it try to use the system tcl? |
| 19:18.15 |
Maloeran |
I have
absolutely no idea, plain standard ./configure
--prefix=/usr |
| 19:18.31 |
``Erik |
hm, in
src/other/libtcl, do you see libtcl_nil.la ? |
| 19:19.07 |
IriX64 |
try
/prefix=/usr/brlcad. |
| 19:19.14 |
IriX64 |
err
-- |
| 19:19.29 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's
there |
| 19:19.41 |
Maloeran |
Err
nevermind, not the _nil part |
| 19:20.25 |
``Erik |
hm, just
libtcl.la ? |
| 19:20.39 |
Maloeran |
Correct |
| 19:20.48 |
Maloeran |
And
libctcl8.4.la |
| 19:21.15 |
``Erik |
ok, so it did
build the tcl lib, hum |
| 19:21.29 |
louipc |
hm |
| 19:21.41 |
``Erik |
ok, did
src/other/blt get installed? |
| 19:21.59 |
Maloeran |
Seems to be
compiled and installed, yes |
| 19:22.11 |
``Erik |
tryyyyy
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/brlcad/lib ? |
| 19:23.16 |
Maloeran |
Problem
remains |
| 19:23.28 |
``Erik |
('cept it
sounds like it's not finding the blt tcl index
thingymajigger) |
| 19:23.41 |
Maloeran |
It occurs
whenever I try to load or create a .g file |
| 19:25.49 |
``Erik |
in... mged?
or archer? |
| 19:25.59 |
Maloeran |
Archer |
| 19:49.27 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/365207
<this is what archer says here Maloeran. |
| 20:00.33 |
Maloeran |
Cool, looks
worse than mine :) |
| 20:08.46 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald *
10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/Makefile.am:
required images that need installed... |
| 20:09.00 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (Makefile.am
include/Makefile.am): colorquant.h was moved to
src/other/libutahrle/include/. |
| 20:09.33 |
``Erik |
hm, seems to
work fine for me |
| 20:09.36 |
``Erik |
kinda
neat |
| 20:14.30 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): dependancy
info |
| 20:16.39 |
Maloeran |
Ah well,
booting the win98 Pentium 2 |
| 20:16.41 |
``Erik |
does mged
work? |
| 20:17.28 |
Maloeran |
Yes |
| 20:17.54 |
Maloeran |
Or at least I
think so, I don't know how to do anything with it.. but files load
:} |
| 20:18.41 |
``Erik |
um, in the
command window, after you've opened a .g file, type "tops", then
pick something interesting from that list and type "e
<something>" |
| 20:19.13 |
``Erik |
then you
should be able to do mouse crap in the view window, uh, middle
click I think is to rotate |
| 20:19.45 |
Maloeran |
Yup, it
renders |
| 20:20.55 |
Maloeran |
Holy...
graal, the raytrace is slow! :) My poor laptop |
| 20:21.00 |
``Erik |
what about
ummmm, uninstall, clean, reconfigure with
--enable-almost-everything and do the build/install and see if that
"fixes" it? |
| 20:23.00 |
Maloeran |
153 seconds
to shoot 2 million rays |
| 20:23.19 |
Maloeran |
All right,
I'll try that switch |
| 20:23.36 |
Maloeran |
mged seems to
have froze after the render completed |
| 20:23.53 |
``Erik |
froze? hrm,
odd |
| 20:24.45 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
default compile is non-optimized on top of it |
| 20:24.46 |
Maloeran |
The GUI was
just made of plain gray windows |
| 20:25.29 |
brlcad |
mged's gui is
non-optimal in many regards, it's not meant to be
impressive |
| 20:26.11 |
brlcad |
if you
recompile, unless you need to debug, add --enable-optimized
too |
| 20:26.13 |
Maloeran |
No, I mean
the mged windows were just of a filled plain gray instead of the
usual widget elements |
| 20:26.36 |
brlcad |
sounds like
it's waiting for something |
| 20:26.49 |
brlcad |
a dialog, or
it's frozen on a bug, hard to say -- don't know what you
did |
| 20:26.52 |
``Erik |
yeah, hurry
up and click the button that's not drawing... no, not that
one!!! |
| 20:26.53 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 20:27.20 |
brlcad |
ooh |
| 20:27.21 |
Maloeran |
I clicked on
"raytrace" multiple times, then closed that dialog window after the
render, and it went grey |
| 20:27.42 |
Maloeran |
Multiple
times because I thought it wasn't working, it hadn't filled a
handful of lines yet |
| 20:27.59 |
brlcad |
ahh, you
probably provoked a bug |
| 20:28.06 |
brlcad |
and
that |
| 20:28.13 |
brlcad |
do a killall
rt on the command line |
| 20:28.28 |
brlcad |
or run
"rtabort" if you can type into the command window |
| 20:29.12 |
Maloeran |
The command
window was gone. I just did killall -9 |
| 20:30.49 |
brlcad |
did it
restore or still stuck? |
| 20:31.32 |
brlcad |
if the
command window gets too much data being dumped too quickly to it,
there is a bug where it'll get stuck in a Tcl event handler loop,
hanging mged |
| 20:32.22 |
``Erik |
trying to see
if other bits and chunks of the install work... |
| 20:32.23 |
Maloeran |
That might be
what happened. I'm sorry I didn't wait very long, I just did
killall -9 |
| 20:32.40 |
brlcad |
iirc, archer
specifically tries to load blt directly, not using the auto_path
search -- so you might have to tweak the load-line |
| 20:34.11 |
brlcad |
bob didn't
make it robust cross-platform-wise, he got it working and moved on
.. needed to produce another release for a different platform, made
a few tweaks, and moved on |
| 20:35.16 |
brlcad |
sorta the
multi-os makefile approach actually .. just that he's only fuddled
with 2 of them so far and they have hard-coded assumptions about
the compiler sort of setup |
| 20:35.19 |
brlcad |
;) |
| 20:35.21 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work
(n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) |
| 20:35.39 |
brlcad |
not literally
of course, it's all tcl foo |
| 20:37.06 |
``Erik |
dan seems to
be having issues today o.O |
| 20:46.36 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: no g_brep.cpp
here... |
| 20:49.56 |
``Erik |
oh, brlcad, I
put those 3 fast linux machines into the perfmon mix |
| 20:50.20 |
``Erik |
so now
instead of getting excel spreadsheets saying they're going
untouched, we can look at a graph of how untouched they are
:D |
| 21:12.39 |
Maloeran |
--enable-almost-everything fixed the tkimg
library issue, but it still throws errors about BLT |
| 21:16.11 |
Maloeran |
14 seconds
for 750000 rays, a bit better |
| 21:19.07 |
Maloeran |
Bug is
reproductible. Click 20 times on "raytrace", and when all of them
have completed or so I assume, processor usage drop back to zero
and the mged gui freezes |
| 21:19.21 |
Maloeran |
I understand
one isn't supposed to do that :) |
| 21:19.46 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:20.16 |
``Erik |
now try
uninstalling, make clean, then configure with --enable-optimized
:D |
| 21:20.21 |
Maloeran |
I did
that |
| 21:20.25 |
``Erik |
okie |
| 21:20.34 |
``Erik |
slightly less
horrible *shrug* |
| 21:21.24 |
Maloeran |
I'm sure its
rays are far more accurate than mine :) |
| 21:21.37 |
``Erik |
iiiinteresting, I keep getting
brlcad_config.h files with exactly one line... :/ |
| 21:24.20 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/brlcad-rt-freeze.png
- Just in case there's any doubt about what I mean |
| 21:27.58 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
hmmm. that might actually be a different issue |
| 21:30.34 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.114.6) |
| 21:52.15 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782827.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:56.20 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged in console mode goes into an inf
loop if you try to read from stdin using Tcl routines (e.g. read
stdin, fgets stdin blah).; mged in GUI mode rejects reads on
stdin |
| 21:56.21 |
louipc |
lol |
| 21:58.00 |
Maloeran |
Is that the
bug? I would have assumed an infinite loop to consume some cpu
time, it was more deadlocked |
| 21:58.28 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: no,
different issue altogether |
| 21:58.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/prj_add.tcl: header and
ws |
| 22:01.55 |
brlcad |
there are
lots of similarly "unforgiving" bugs that can occur when you do bad
things that are considered bad use |
| 22:02.12 |
brlcad |
i don't
generally fix them as time is being put towards the new interface
instead |
| 22:02.18 |
brlcad |
i just
document them as needed |
| 22:05.01 |
brlcad |
and fix or
work-around if they're non-triivial or I'm needing some
diversion |
| 22:27.56 |
Maloeran |
*nods* Sean,
where in the brlcad source should I look for the conversion from
solid modelling to triangles? |
| 22:32.39 |
brlcad |
depends on
the purpose, but mostly in the converters section, src/conv, if you
are doing a data conversion |
| 22:34.58 |
Maloeran |
I would like
to see how complex it would be to make triangles face the proper
way, build better meshes for raytracing ( less long thin triangles
), and perhaps fix the gaps between connected surfaces. It's the
right place? |
| 22:35.39 |
brlcad |
as a starting
point, yes |
| 22:36.02 |
brlcad |
that expands
into src/librt .. a vast collection of nmg_* files and
routines |
| 22:36.26 |
brlcad |
i can explain
the overall process if you like |
| 22:36.37 |
brlcad |
from a high
level, if it'd help |
| 22:37.03 |
Maloeran |
It could
help, thanks. These files of 236kb are a bit
intimidating |
| 22:38.15 |
Maloeran |
I think there
might be several issues with the triangulation process. Do you
consider the code is good enough to work from there, or a rewrite
might be preferable? |
| 22:38.35 |
brlcad |
depends on a
lot of factors |
| 22:38.53 |
brlcad |
it's not an
easy problem at all, with the constraint of being topologically
preserving |
| 22:38.58 |
brlcad |
and
maintaining closure |
| 22:39.25 |
Maloeran |
Indeed, but
I'm afraid any major changes to such a big piece of code might be
more trouble than even rewriting.. |
| 22:39.27 |
brlcad |
it's slightly
easier to just get triangles, but even that requires effort --
basically the evaluation of the boolean |
| 22:39.50 |
brlcad |
the code
actually isn't that bad -- the approach is sound |
| 22:39.53 |
Maloeran |
Good to
hear |
| 22:40.04 |
brlcad |
the bad news
is that it lacks horribly in robustness |
| 22:40.20 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I
noticed that... |
| 22:40.21 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
manage propagate tolerance control very well |
| 22:40.33 |
brlcad |
and doesn't
have good failure checking/recovery |
| 22:41.15 |
brlcad |
the
algorithmic approach, however, is one of the recommended ways to go
to maintain a solid model |
| 22:41.57 |
Maloeran |
I think that
if a good and very fast solid modelling -> triangles conversion
were possible, views could be raytraced interactively during the
modelling |
| 22:41.58 |
brlcad |
we might
actually have a rewrite in our laps already with openNURBS .. but
that requires additional effort to integrate with to determine how
good they tessellate |
| 22:42.28 |
brlcad |
that they
could (and opengl becomes usable too) |
| 22:43.18 |
brlcad |
i was
actually thinking of having your engine serve as that kind of
real-time interface renderer in the new modeler if it were ever
integrated |
| 22:43.21 |
Maloeran |
I think that
would be really nice, and it would put some
very-fast-but-not-so-accurate raytracer to good use |
| 22:43.36 |
brlcad |
be able to
toggle between opengl, raytraced, wireframe, etc |
| 22:43.41 |
Maloeran |
Exactly |
| 22:44.18 |
brlcad |
so back to
the crux of the problem to solve is the evaluation of the implicit
solids and csg booleans (two separate problems) |
| 22:44.46 |
brlcad |
*currently*,
the nmg code in librt does the following: |
| 22:45.40 |
brlcad |
1) it walks a
given csg hierarchy all the way down to the primitive
level |
| 22:46.03 |
brlcad |
2) it
facetizes each primitive according to tessellation/tolerance/size
criteria |
| 22:46.41 |
brlcad |
3) it walks
back up the csg hierarchy combining the facetized collections
according to the CSG operations encountered |
| 22:46.54 |
Maloeran |
I'm not sure
I would facetize before extruding volumes and so on... but please
continue |
| 22:47.18 |
brlcad |
yes, that's a
very good observation |
| 22:47.58 |
brlcad |
the bulk of
the effort happens in the "combining the facetized collections" as
that is the evaluation of the boolean, comparing polygon sets
against polygon sets |
| 22:48.09 |
brlcad |
the implicits
were evaluated in step 2 |
| 22:48.58 |
Maloeran |
Some
problems, like gaps, are impossible to solve without swapping 2)
and 3) |
| 22:49.40 |
brlcad |
for 3) to
evaluate the CSG operations, it walks over all edges, of all loops,
of all faces, of all surfaces, of all regions .. doing the pairwise
comparison -- determines which polygons are inside or outside and
depending on the operator, throws away those fully in/out as
needed |
| 22:49.52 |
brlcad |
yes, very
true |
| 22:50.04 |
brlcad |
well, you can
guarantee no gaps |
| 22:50.12 |
brlcad |
but you can't
guarantee that you'll find a solution |
| 22:50.23 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, okay
:) |
| 22:50.32 |
brlcad |
it does
guarantee no gaps, that is the nature of the nmg structure of
walking edges, loops, faces, etc |
| 22:51.09 |
Maloeran |
Does it? The
triangulated truck I was given has clear gaps between adjacent
primitives |
| 22:51.21 |
Maloeran |
( and it's
not a raytracing artifact ) |
| 22:52.21 |
brlcad |
and when you
have two spheres that are intersecting and being union'd together,
for example, you will have two polygon datasets to start with, it
computes which triangles are fully inside the other and throws them
away, then computes where exactly the triangles intersect and
correctly trims them and fuses the two sets together at a
reasonable seam |
| 22:53.43 |
brlcad |
maybe I
should say the structure "can" and is supposed to -- barring any
bugs of course. there are other ways to extract polygons that will
drop the solid model criteria, especially if it gets to solutions
it cannot resolve |
| 22:54.50 |
brlcad |
for solid
models, which are the predominant concern, it's supposed to, but
then when we're going to polygons, it's usually for a non-solid
model purpose so it is sometimes relaxed -- don't know the detail
of how the truck was generated specifically (and it still could
just be a bug regarless) |
| 22:55.24 |
Maloeran |
All right, so
gaps don't normally occur. That's reassuring |
| 22:56.01 |
brlcad |
retaining
knowledge of the actual surface/primitive toplogy is frankly a
better way to go (and perhaps even an easier
implementation) |
| 22:56.15 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I think
so too |
| 22:56.21 |
brlcad |
but still
requires a conversion from implicit form, to some explicit
form |
| 22:56.23 |
Maloeran |
How efficient
and optimized is the current code? |
| 22:56.26 |
brlcad |
just not
triangles |
| 22:56.46 |
brlcad |
heh, nmg
facetization? it's not optimized |
| 22:57.20 |
brlcad |
it's hard
enough to get it working "correctly" regardless of the
computational constraint |
| 22:57.42 |
Maloeran |
Stupid
question : where can I see the list of all csg primitives
used/known by the software? |
| 22:58.31 |
brlcad |
they're all
in src/librt/g_*.c |
| 22:58.39 |
brlcad |
visually,
here's "most" of them:
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png |
| 22:59.17 |
brlcad |
there are
some details missing, that picture is just a simplification, and
leaves some of the more complex/experimental primitives
out |
| 22:59.19 |
Maloeran |
Hrmph, quite
a few of them |
| 23:00.22 |
louipc |
how's the
extrude further represented? |
| 23:00.37 |
brlcad |
all of them,
except perhaps the bot/ars (i.e. triangles), dsp (i.e. height
field), extrude/sketch, and bitmap primtiives are stored and
usually processed in implicit form |
| 23:01.09 |
brlcad |
louipc: what
do you mean? |
| 23:01.25 |
brlcad |
an extrude
object is coupled to some sketch object |
| 23:01.45 |
brlcad |
sketches are
pretty flexible/arbitrary collections of points, lines, arcs,
loops, etc |
| 23:02.47 |
louipc |
ah |
| 23:02.52 |
brlcad |
i think
extrude would probably be considered a hybrid, it's actually
evaluated in a semi-implicit form, though the sketch is clearly an
explicit representation |
| 23:03.56 |
brlcad |
extrusions
are basically a direction vector and distance off of a sketch along
with ratio scaling vectors |
| 23:05.11 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: the
*plan* so far, assuming that this openNURBS business works out well
(and it's going great so far, Jason's making nice progress) is to
implement a "describe yourself in explicit spline surface form" for
all primitives |
| 23:06.48 |
brlcad |
all
primitives already have various describe functions -- describe in
implicit form, describe in explicit wireframe form, describe as
serialized on-disk form, describe as textual values,
etc |
| 23:07.09 |
Maloeran |
Right, sounds
like a good step towards a robust triangulation |
| 23:07.16 |
brlcad |
there's a
stub in there (that a couple of the major primitives already
implement) for describing in brep/spline surface form |
| 23:07.38 |
Maloeran |
I wonder
though if it might not be slower than just working from the
primitive equations, for most of them |
| 23:07.42 |
brlcad |
with that
implemented, the next step would be to implement the boolean
evaluation of brep against brep |
| 23:08.25 |
brlcad |
once you have
an evaluated boolean-free brep, triangulation is trivial and can
usually be done in real-time |
| 23:09.07 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean by "work from the primitive equations"? which
equation? |
| 23:09.40 |
Maloeran |
Of the csg
primitives rather than splines |
| 23:11.06 |
brlcad |
i think i'm
still not following what "it" was in "if it might not be
slower" |
| 23:11.40 |
brlcad |
the big
question is how hard and computationally intensive is it to
evaluate brep against brep, evaluating the boolean |
| 23:12.36 |
brlcad |
my feel is
that will be "reasonably fast" as in a couple seconds for an object
with dozens to hundreds of primitives |
| 23:12.57 |
brlcad |
tessellation
would be practically instantaneous |
| 23:13.16 |
Maloeran |
Yes... but
that doesn't sound fast enough for interactive use, during the
modelling process |
| 23:13.35 |
brlcad |
evaluation of
the boolean when they are triangle vs triangle is what we have now
with the nmg conversion process |
| 23:13.52 |
brlcad |
evaluation of
the boolean when they are implicit against implicit is what we have
now with librt |
| 23:14.27 |
brlcad |
actually, it
generally is fast enough, because that's the time to convert
something all-out |
| 23:14.42 |
brlcad |
that
conversion can be hidden in many places (during file load for
example) |
| 23:15.11 |
brlcad |
during
editing, it's pretty much instantaneous evaluation as you're only
evaluating small deltas |
| 23:15.23 |
Maloeran |
*nods* It's
just less practical to stall the rendering for a couple seconds
every time the user makes a change, though you could only rebuild
the affected region |
| 23:15.28 |
Maloeran |
All right,
great |
| 23:15.39 |
brlcad |
it's actually
the approach most commercial cad systems take that use BREP as
their primary representation |
| 23:15.53 |
brlcad |
and you do
end up pausing on large models while it evaluates every now and
then |
| 23:16.05 |
Maloeran |
Sounds very
nice then. The only problem I'm seeing is not having triangles face
the proper way, which should be really easy to fix |
| 23:20.21 |
Maloeran |
That and
efficiency perhaps. Would you mind some #ifdef __SSE__ in that
code? ;) |
| 23:21.23 |
brlcad |
depends on a
lot of factors, but in general not really a problem so long as
there's an alternative |
| 23:22.10 |
brlcad |
the bigger
issue would be tolerance, there's entire classes of cases where
even double floating point isn't enough |
| 23:22.28 |
Maloeran |
Oh? I
wouldn't have expected that |
| 23:22.56 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
one of the bigger problems some of the CAD systems deal with to
varying degrees of success/failure |
| 23:23.35 |
brlcad |
you know what
a tapered blend is, yes? |
| 23:23.52 |
Maloeran |
Sorry, I
don't |
| 23:25.19 |
Maloeran |
A reasonably
fast fixed 128 or 256 bits data type to handle these cases wouldn't
be too much trouble to write, perhaps to integrate in the code
though |
| 23:25.59 |
Maloeran |
( With SSE, a
home-made 128 bits floating point format doesn't look so bad
) |
| 23:26.03 |
brlcad |
hmm, better
example then.. say you have a hand full of peanut butter and you
smear it out across a table making a sloping ramp that becomes
rather minutely thin |
| 23:26.24 |
Maloeran |
That I can
follow :) |
| 23:26.30 |
brlcad |
the issue
becomes how and where you terminate the ramp |
| 23:27.02 |
Maloeran |
I see,
okay |
| 23:27.43 |
brlcad |
it might be a
smear that is mathematically something like
|||||\\\~~~~~,,,,..... |
| 23:27.44 |
brlcad |
the question
is how many dots |
| 23:27.44 |
Maloeran |
I'm thinking,
we really could make a 128 bits floating point data type in SSE
that would be just a bit slower than double |
| 23:27.53 |
brlcad |
even with
double on most cases, you cannot go out as far as you need to
without truncating the ramp prematurely |
| 23:28.04 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 23:28.15 |
brlcad |
else you end
up with something mathematically just a plane .. and that's no
longer a solid model |
| 23:28.24 |
Maloeran |
Understood |
| 23:28.38 |
brlcad |
that
particular case actually happens a lot in real engineering
models |
| 23:29.03 |
brlcad |
solder
between joints, tapered blends, various materials combining
together, etc |
| 23:29.06 |
Maloeran |
If these
cases can be identified before or when we encounter them, a
home-made floating point format could be a great
solution |
| 23:29.12 |
brlcad |
there are
others, but that's the easiest to describe |
| 23:30.07 |
brlcad |
part of the
problem is that they are frankly hard as hell to identify and even
worse to detect them |
| 23:30.25 |
Maloeran |
Oops okay,
that's a problem |
| 23:30.39 |
brlcad |
because you
already have code asking questions like "are theses two surfaces
cojoined".. are they the same, are they just "really close",
etc |
| 23:31.09 |
brlcad |
if you assume
just really close, then you lose solid model connectivity,
introduce gaps, etc |
| 23:31.43 |
brlcad |
if you assume
they're not, then there similarly isn't a problem of gaps and such,
but you truncate and create non-faithful geometry |
| 23:31.48 |
Maloeran |
Indeed |
| 23:32.11 |
brlcad |
you sort of
need to know the modelers intent during the modeling
process |
| 23:32.23 |
brlcad |
which would
be great to have of course... but you rarely have that
:) |
| 23:32.53 |
brlcad |
that's where
unigraphics and solidworks start earning their
pricetags |
| 23:32.58 |
Maloeran |
Hum. I really
thought the interface would allow modellers to make their intend
clear |
| 23:33.09 |
Maloeran |
At least it
was when I did Autocad |
| 23:33.43 |
brlcad |
initially you
have it, after almost any conversion except sometimes with STEP,
all that is lost |
| 23:34.18 |
brlcad |
and most real
modeling is done by teams and/or between companies/groups and often
using different cad systems |
| 23:35.15 |
brlcad |
iges is/was
the predominant cad exchange format, and it didn't retain this sort
of intent modeling, just connectivity if you were lucky, but
sometimes you'd lose even that |
| 23:35.16 |
Maloeran |
Right, so
intents on connectivity are lost and the code falls back on...
guesses |
| 23:35.41 |
brlcad |
and then all
bets are off, normals get reverse, you might get cracks, etc
;) |
| 23:36.48 |
brlcad |
for as
painful and crappy as NMGs are in librt, they're actually on par
with a lot of cad systems for that class of conversion, sometimes
it's even better |
| 23:37.16 |
brlcad |
but the
approach is fundamentally limited given you loose actual
surface/intersection information really early on during implicit
evaluation |
| 23:37.51 |
Maloeran |
If it's
really a problem that numerical precision can solve... I'm thinking
about some hack coming from my overview of the gcc code |
| 23:38.01 |
brlcad |
it then
spends 80-99% of the time evaluating sets of N^3
problems |
| 23:38.18 |
Maloeran |
We could
replace the built-in fpu emulation code with floats and doubles of
128 and 256 bits |
| 00:00.20 |
Maloeran |
I think I'm
surprised there doesn't seem to be any patch to replace the usual
fp math with higher precision calculations. It might mess up file
and network I/O, but that can be more easily solved than rewriting
code to use GMP |
| 00:23.08 |
brlcad |
hem, i
actually think rewriting the code to use gmp would be easier
:) |
| 00:23.26 |
brlcad |
and gmp
already uses fpu to accelerate where it can |
| 00:35.31 |
``Erik |
neat http://ulysses.jpl.nasa.gov/ |
| 00:37.40 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/Makefile.am: pngtcl
needs the zlib cppflags too |
| 00:38.29 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu_
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:38.59 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu_
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:39.38 |
brlcad |
funky |
| 00:40.14 |
``Erik |
peer kicked
the shit outta you, yo! |
| 00:40.50 |
tofu_ |
apparently |
| 00:40.53 |
brlcad |
indeed |
| 00:41.19 |
brlcad |
i think a
router reset at ze lab |
| 00:41.38 |
``Erik |
screen is
mighty |
| 00:41.40 |
brlcad |
or at least
along the path to my isp |
| 00:41.53 |
brlcad |
screen r0xers
by b0xers |
| 00:42.10 |
*** part/#brlcad tofu_
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:42.38 |
brlcad |
hm |
| 00:43.15 |
``Erik |
and the rc
config for it is so trivial, I mean, check out how simple and
obvious this is... |
| 00:43.16 |
``Erik |
hardstatus
alwayslastline "%{b}[ %{B}%H %{b}][ %{w}%?%-Lw%?%{b}(%{W}%n*%f
%t%?(%u)%?%{b})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{b}][%{B} %d/%m %{W}%C%a
%{b}]" |
| 00:43.23 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 00:44.01 |
Maloeran |
That's worse
than Itanium assembly |
| 00:44.05 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 00:44.13 |
brlcad |
pass that to
your brainfuck compiler, see what happens |
| 00:44.40 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 00:44.45 |
``Erik |
*look* |
| 00:44.47 |
brlcad |
looks like
apache log syntax actually |
| 00:44.52 |
``Erik |
there're no
i/o commands |
| 00:45.01 |
``Erik |
the loops are
closed, so it'd be legit |
| 00:45.20 |
``Erik |
I think it'd
reduce to [][-][] |
| 00:45.57 |
``Erik |
which'd be
something like {char n=0; while(--n);} |
| 00:47.21 |
Maloeran |
And you won't
even optimize that to avoid waiting for 'n' to loop over its
numerical range? Tsk |
| 00:47.27 |
``Erik |
(the
optimization pass in my compiler is very very trivial right
now...) |
| 00:47.46 |
``Erik |
now the
generic partial evaluation engine I want to put in there would
actually reduce it to an empty program, I THINK |
| 00:48.49 |
``Erik |
right now it
compiles down to |
| 00:48.50 |
``Erik |
while(*ptr){}while(*ptr){--*ptr;++*ptr;}while(*ptr){} |
| 00:49.01 |
Maloeran |
Ahah |
| 00:49.34 |
``Erik |
at least the
asm is readable O:-) |
| 00:49.52 |
Maloeran |
I think you
should tackle structured knowledge systems for AI with me instead,
it's fun too |
| 00:50.17 |
``Erik |
but it sounds
like you're trying to reinvent 50's style ai, dude :D |
| 00:50.26 |
``Erik |
take an AI
course at the local uni or something O.o |
| 00:51.32 |
Maloeran |
I think you
might have missed an aspect when I tried to explain... It doesn't
seek rational solutions and output errors when conflicts
occur |
| 00:51.50 |
``Erik |
ok, so it's a
fuzzy expert system |
| 00:52.07 |
Maloeran |
It's all
probability based, the network of relation between entities evolve
as to try to resolve any conflicting information,
somehow |
| 00:52.27 |
``Erik |
so 60's
ai |
| 00:52.49 |
``Erik |
ed was
working out some probability algebra that was interesting looking a
bit ago o.O |
| 00:52.49 |
Maloeran |
It learns by
itself from any logical statements being fed to it, it isn't an
"expert system" |
| 00:53.46 |
Maloeran |
And that's
just the interface, it grows new "entities" ( nodes ) which aren't
mapped to units it's being fed, as part of the pseudo-reasonning
network |
| 00:54.02 |
``Erik |
so just like
the 70's game "animal" |
| 00:54.22 |
``Erik |
'game'...
*cough*... virus... :) |
| 00:55.24 |
``Erik |
it was a
program that spread itself to new systems and played a game of 20
questions |
| 00:55.39 |
Maloeran |
I think
humans think by previously assimilated relations between entities,
with many fuzzy pseudo-entities emerging during the learning
process |
| 00:55.40 |
``Erik |
and new
information was put into the program when it was stumped, which
also spread |
| 00:55.52 |
Maloeran |
And errors,
erroneous reasoning leads to creativity |
| 00:56.31 |
Maloeran |
Oh well, you
aren't interested, I got it :) |
| 00:57.01 |
``Erik |
seriously,
take a good ai class, see how you feel about it after that
:) |
| 00:57.15 |
Maloeran |
I read
everything you pasted to me about AI so far |
| 00:57.33 |
``Erik |
hm, I pasted
very very old articles focused on a very specific
problem |
| 00:58.00 |
``Erik |
a class will
go over a broad range of approaches and applications
quickly |
| 00:58.03 |
Maloeran |
Yes,
apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm
not |
| 00:59.10 |
``Erik |
<-- still
thinks you're taking a pretty classic and well known approach...
mebbe is not understanding you very well *shrug* |
| 00:59.54 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps I am,
I have no idea, just not the classic approachs you pasted so
far |
| 01:00.14 |
``Erik |
http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/animalsrc.html |
| 01:02.28 |
Maloeran |
Okay, I don't
think I'll be reading that assembly... :) but surely it has nothing
in common with the approach above |
| 01:02.54 |
Maloeran |
It's designed
to "understand" relations between entities to be able to put any
information, statement or question within its known
context |
| 01:03.56 |
Maloeran |
And it
doesn't do that like these "expert systems", its knowledge base
grows as an abitrary network of nodes, which are traversed
accordingly to probabilities |
| 01:04.44 |
Maloeran |
Statements
are assimilated trying to minimize conflicts, and questions are
answered by the paths guided by probabilities ( answers may vary if
re-asked ) |
| 01:05.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 01:05.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
leave a note that it's known that running any of the various mged
commands (e.g. |
| 01:05.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
clicking the raytrace button many times quickly, or running rtarea
on a large |
| 01:05.45 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
model) that output a lot of data will hang mged (idle cpu
utilization) |
| 01:07.16 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 01:14.30 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.172.177) |
| 01:19.20 |
Maloeran |
Nice page
Erik, amusing to read about these mainframes able to access one 36
bits word every 8 microseconds |
| 01:23.42 |
Maloeran |
Ah, or the
"Fire" indicator on their massive printer, next to a "Extinguish"
button! |
| 01:24.30 |
``Erik |
computers are
cool like that |
| 01:25.30 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:28.00 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/365550
<=== we were comparing numbers ``Erik. |
| 01:28.34 |
IriX64 |
drugs do that
to you :) |
| 01:30.03 |
IriX64 |
it's
beautifull. (the picture I mean) |
| 01:30.52 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:30.52 |
Maloeran |
Ahaha, the
FASTRAND had one massive drum for storage which caused it to crawl
around the room during use |
| 01:31.07 |
IriX64 |
Gary has a
nice world right? :) |
| 01:34.15 |
IriX64 |
should have
waited and posted the whole run, you interested? |
| 01:34.27 |
IriX64 |
its still on
the screen. |
| 01:36.21 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/365561
<====if anyones interested in the actual numbers. |
| 01:37.09 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: don't
use voidpc as it's a rather new addition to libz that likely might
not be available if we're linking against a system
zlib. |
| 01:43.05 |
*** join/#brlcad handsome_evil
(n=knoppix@203.130.205.60) |
| 01:43.32 |
handsome_evil |
hello
all |
| 01:43.47 |
handsome_evil |
i just found
brl cad a minute ago |
| 01:43.57 |
brlcad |
hello mr
evil |
| 01:44.03 |
handsome_evil |
i want to ask
how relevant brlcad with autocad? |
| 01:44.28 |
brlcad |
autocad is a
drafting CADD package, brl-cad is a solid modeling CAD
package |
| 01:44.53 |
brlcad |
predominantly
different domains, some functionality overlap, but highly likely
not what you're hoping |
| 01:45.17 |
brlcad |
decent
foundation to be that though, if you're a developer |
| 01:45.36 |
brlcad |
screenshot of
the modeler in action, http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 01:46.36 |
handsome_evil |
umm.. if just
for solid modeling i'v allready using blender |
| 01:46.56 |
handsome_evil |
i just wana
get a 2d drafting for my presentation |
| 01:47.02 |
brlcad |
heh, blender
is horrible for solid modeling, but a great modeler |
| 01:47.24 |
handsome_evil |
what is mean
solid modeling is horrible?? |
| 01:47.29 |
handsome_evil |
the
resolution?? |
| 01:48.04 |
brlcad |
solid
modeling is an entire engineering-based approach |
| 01:48.25 |
brlcad |
guarantees of
topology, connectivity, engineering-specific constraints and
requirements |
| 01:48.39 |
brlcad |
blender
provides no such featureset |
| 01:48.56 |
brlcad |
it's more in
line with modeling systems like maya and softimage |
| 01:49.20 |
handsome_evil |
umm.. that
nice, but i am not an engeneering, so i think don't need brlcad if
like that |
| 01:49.23 |
brlcad |
whereas solid
modeling system examples would be packages like unigraphics/nx,
solidworks, pro/engineer, etc |
| 01:50.01 |
brlcad |
brl-cad will
render hidden-line images ala drafting diagrams, example http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 01:50.35 |
brlcad |
but the
package is inherintly not a drafting modeler, that would be
something like qcad (there's not many open source
options) |
| 01:51.50 |
handsome_evil |
btw i hate
qcad.. |
| 01:51.58 |
brlcad |
hehe, don't
we all |
| 02:03.57 |
brlcad |
handsome_evil: some more perspective..
http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 02:04.10 |
brlcad |
autocad is a
CADD package (big oval on the left) |
| 02:04.23 |
brlcad |
we overlap a
little in various areas |
| 02:06.28 |
handsome_evil |
http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
>> that very nice, may be i will try brlcad |
| 02:06.28 |
handsome_evil |
after
download the big software i think :-D |
| 02:07.17 |
brlcad |
handsome_evil: for what it's worth, the
tutorials on the website are *required* if you want to learn how to
be productive with it |
| 02:07.31 |
brlcad |
and they're
just an introduction |
| 02:07.53 |
brlcad |
in particular
the http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 02:08.36 |
handsome_evil |
ok thank you
very much brlcad |
| 02:09.56 |
brlcad |
no problem,
feel free to stay and hang out or come back if you have any
questions |
| 02:11.10 |
``Erik |
irritating, I
seem to be missing files |
| 02:12.53 |
``Erik |
<--
scratches his chin |
| 02:13.01 |
``Erik |
we should put
those rt06 posters on teh website or something |
| 02:13.10 |
IriX64 |
didn't mean
you itchy :) |
| 02:13.11 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 02:13.22 |
brlcad |
they give you
back pdfs? |
| 02:13.29 |
``Erik |
um,
psd's |
| 02:13.29 |
brlcad |
or word docs
or whatever |
| 02:13.33 |
brlcad |
ahh,
nifty |
| 02:13.36 |
``Erik |
but preview
can convert to pdf |
| 02:13.38 |
``Erik |
iirc |
| 02:13.48 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h:
irritating.. zlib only seems to provide voidpc with the latest
versions of zlib, and is incompatible with the voidp type found in
the older headers. conditionally declare using the new zlib's
ZLIB_VERNUM. |
| 02:14.01 |
``Erik |
we'd probably
need to scan and post the form 1's, too |
| 02:14.19 |
brlcad |
as long as
you have them somewhere accessible |
| 02:14.34 |
brlcad |
I have a
file, or at least I used to, for old stuff |
| 02:15.06 |
``Erik |
if ya keep
the ARL-1's with the file, you dont' have to go far to find 'em
:) |
| 02:15.45 |
``Erik |
if it's a
pdf, they can be attached as "page 2" |
| 02:15.47 |
brlcad |
pretty
useless gov't overhead garbage baggage for the project
though |
| 02:15.54 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 02:16.16 |
brlcad |
it'd matter
more if it were a gov't site too |
| 02:16.32 |
``Erik |
or better
yet, keep copies in cvs in the web/ module |
| 02:16.37 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:16.59 |
brlcad |
poor
neglected web module |
| 02:17.44 |
brlcad |
i could see a
dir with them, or just tossing them up with the uploads, but it
just starts a bad precedent of something else to manage that from
an open source perspective is counterproductive |
| 02:17.59 |
``Erik |
<-- has no
problem burning sf's disk space |
| 02:18.35 |
``Erik |
*shrug* not
that it'd ever be challenged, heh |
| 02:18.40 |
brlcad |
if you have a
few, then someone might ask .. "well what about theses over here"
and then you have to either hunt them down, or determine they're
okay, or prove it doesn't applyl, etc |
| 02:18.45 |
brlcad |
exactly |
| 02:18.48 |
brlcad |
so why bother
:) |
| 02:19.08 |
brlcad |
is that a
brainslug on your head? :) |
| 02:19.22 |
``Erik |
#37
yo |
| 02:21.58 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 02:23.02 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:23.23 |
``Erik |
irix photon
mapped a havoc http://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/shot3.jpg |
| 02:24.03 |
IriX64 |
ty. |
| 02:24.36 |
``Erik |
hm, a few
little things... jpg is lossy, png would look better... |
| 02:24.51 |
``Erik |
it looks
aliased, hypersampling fixes that up |
| 02:25.08 |
IriX64 |
man ive been
meaning to get a better screen capture tool, what would you
recommend. |
| 02:25.16 |
``Erik |
rt from the
command line can output a .pix file, then you can use
pix2png |
| 02:25.25 |
brlcad |
and due to
the way he implemented photon mapping, if you put havoc in a box,
even a big one, you can get vastly better results.. |
| 02:25.26 |
``Erik |
uhhh,
Grab.app? :D *duck* |
| 02:25.30 |
IriX64 |
ty ill try
that. |
| 02:25.32 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 02:25.36 |
``Erik |
or a
sphere |
| 02:25.43 |
``Erik |
any enclosing
geometry |
| 02:26.10 |
``Erik |
and,
naturally, more photons means a better lookin' pic, at the cost of
cpu time :) |
| 02:26.17 |
brlcad |
can use the
"inside" command to hollow out various primitives |
| 02:26.19 |
IriX64 |
I did *NOT
implement photon mapping by any stretch. |
| 02:26.38 |
``Erik |
when I was
preparing the poster images, some of 'em ran all night |
| 02:27.36 |
handsome_evil |
but BRL-CAD
doesn't support 2d drating and not possible to make blue print
isn't it?? |
| 02:27.52 |
handsome_evil |
*drafting |
| 02:27.52 |
``Erik |
heh, no,
twingy implemented the photon mapping... he also coded up adrt and
the path tracing used to generate http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 02:27.55 |
brlcad |
rise alone,
even being a pig, make adrt worth keeping around |
| 02:28.18 |
brlcad |
at least
until someone one-ups the quality possible |
| 02:28.27 |
``Erik |
<--
wonders if the hummer animation can be put somewhere
o.O |
| 02:28.36 |
IriX64 |
5
*days? |
| 02:28.43 |
brlcad |
handsome_evil: there is some 2D drafting
support, but worse than qcad from a GUI perspective |
| 02:28.44 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 02:28.49 |
``Erik |
on a small
cluster |
| 02:29.30 |
brlcad |
``Erik: it's
even been form 1'd even though it's not an army model |
| 02:30.10 |
``Erik |
heh, irix,
what kinda hw are you using? |
| 02:30.13 |
brlcad |
``Erik: you
have access to the ftp.brlcad.org web root,
/usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org |
| 02:30.20 |
IriX64 |
cheap
:) |
| 02:30.39 |
brlcad |
there's a
/tmp, images, and datafiles in there that are not synchronized
up |
| 02:30.50 |
brlcad |
brlcad.org
does sync down though |
| 02:31.15 |
brlcad |
(thinking of
changing that soon) |
| 02:31.24 |
handsome_evil |
any one here
have try gcad??? |
| 02:31.58 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:32.02 |
brlcad |
good luck
with that |
| 02:32.59 |
``Erik |
<-- not in
the brlcad or www groups |
| 02:33.10 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 02:33.21 |
IriX64 |
``Erik i just
looked at your post again, you are right, needs clarity ill see
what i can do about it not that i send a whole lot of oix, but
still. |
| 02:33.28 |
brlcad |
you're in
brlcad group |
| 02:33.33 |
IriX64 |
err pix
too. |
| 02:33.41 |
``Erik |
woops,
sorry |
| 02:33.41 |
brlcad |
which gets
you sudo access to www group |
| 02:33.41 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:33.55 |
brlcad |
sudo -u www
for web actions |
| 02:35.04 |
louipc |
hey new
people awesome |
| 02:35.16 |
brlcad |
IriX64: it
would be a great (and relatively straight-forward) exercise to
build a big box or sphere around havoc, put a light inside and
render with photon mapping |
| 02:35.18 |
``Erik |
irix:
http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/humvee3.png |
| 02:35.59 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: you
have experience on me, i'm just a tinkerer. |
| 02:36.16 |
brlcad |
that's why I
said it'd be a great exercise |
| 02:36.33 |
brlcad |
you should be
able to do that after like two tutorials in the mged
intro |
| 02:36.50 |
``Erik |
a, a bigger
one than at sf... http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png |
| 02:36.54 |
IriX64 |
``Erik
beautifull but why the canary? :) |
| 02:36.57 |
brlcad |
or even just
playing with "make box arb" with some booleans :) |
| 02:37.16 |
``Erik |
'canary'? |
| 02:37.19 |
IriX64 |
Ill learn..
eventually. |
| 02:37.26 |
IriX64 |
color
yellow? |
| 02:37.36 |
``Erik |
uh, that's a
beige, actually |
| 02:37.43 |
brlcad |
doesn't get
much more basic than making a hollow box ;) |
| 02:37.43 |
``Erik |
the kinda
beige they paint those for desert use |
| 02:38.01 |
brlcad |
I'd send that
out to the list as a nice tutorial if you got a picture from
it |
| 02:38.27 |
handsome_evil |
http://www.graphiteone-cad.com/en/index.htm
>> nice cad for presentation, but seem have no material
supported..... :( |
| 02:38.44 |
brlcad |
make sph sph?
:) |
| 02:38.55 |
``Erik |
yeah, it's
hard for me |
| 02:39.02 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:39.23 |
IriX64 |
``Erik that
last is a nice vehicle, lets pray we don't have to use
it. |
| 02:39.28 |
louipc |
how'd you get
the trees and grass and such? |
| 02:39.40 |
brlcad |
handsome_evil: I don't generally promote
or follow the "free but not open source" products out there, we're
an open source project looking for more involvement ;) |
| 02:40.07 |
``Erik |
louipc: I
think he used blender scripts? each blade of grass is
modeled |
| 02:40.24 |
louipc |
ah
neat |
| 02:40.25 |
brlcad |
there's a
procedural vegitation generator in brl-cad, but yeah, think he used
a script found elsewhere |
| 02:41.01 |
handsome_evil |
brlcad, you
mean graphiteone-cad not opensource?? |
| 02:41.03 |
``Erik |
(and irix,
the vehicle is being usd right now) |
| 02:42.02 |
handsome_evil |
no problem
for me... just need to find a job with free software
:-D |
| 02:42.34 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add brep.h to the
dist... |
| 02:42.52 |
brlcad |
handsome_evil: where do you see it's open
source? |
| 02:43.17 |
handsome_evil |
no i am not
see :-D |
| 02:43.24 |
handsome_evil |
just chek if
that free for download |
| 02:43.57 |
brlcad |
which is my
point, there are a handful that are "free" like them.. I mostly
ignore them ;) |
| 02:44.13 |
brlcad |
I'm much more
interested in improving brl-cad |
| 02:44.20 |
brlcad |
so that it
can one day replace autocad ;) |
| 02:44.29 |
louipc |
woohoo |
| 02:44.35 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:44.58 |
handsome_evil |
umm.. you are
so idealism |
| 02:45.09 |
brlcad |
not really,
more pragmatic |
| 02:45.19 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
benefit the cad industry to support them |
| 02:45.35 |
brlcad |
we all
benefit by unifying efforts towards a project/goal |
| 02:45.40 |
handsome_evil |
a) You must
use the Licensed Software only for either private, educational or
research, but not for commercial usage. |
| 02:45.48 |
louipc |
what bothers
me most is proprietary formats |
| 02:45.52 |
handsome_evil |
ohh.....
god... |
| 02:45.58 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's got
the most headway of any project by a very long ways (in the CAD
domain at least) |
| 02:46.22 |
brlcad |
heh, you
wanted commercial usage, didn't you ;) |
| 02:46.32 |
handsome_evil |
that a
wonderfull dream, as my dream |
| 02:47.04 |
brlcad |
even with our
20+ year lead, there's still massive ways to go to be functionally
competitive |
| 02:47.04 |
handsome_evil |
brcad, yes i
do |
| 02:47.04 |
handsome_evil |
:( |
| 02:47.07 |
handsome_evil |
huh... i am a
dead man |
| 02:47.32 |
brlcad |
learn
brl-cad, use rtedge to generate the line drawings, annotate using
gimp ;) |
| 02:47.50 |
louipc |
I know first
hand that a lot of companies just pirate software |
| 02:48.23 |
handsome_evil |
no one can
accept drafter job with no 2d drafting presentation
here.. |
| 02:48.54 |
brlcad |
you said you
tried qcad? |
| 02:49.05 |
brlcad |
it's at least
"functional" albeit mildly painful |
| 02:50.24 |
handsome_evil |
i just see of
qcad |
| 02:50.24 |
handsome_evil |
not realy
try |
| 02:50.24 |
handsome_evil |
but bad
interface |
| 02:50.24 |
handsome_evil |
may be i must
using qcad now |
| 02:51.23 |
brlcad |
qcad is about
"as good as it gets" for open source -- it's not pretty but it
should do the job |
| 02:51.31 |
handsome_evil |
if using the
gimp for 2d drafting, people will be doubt about the
scale.. |
| 02:51.31 |
handsome_evil |
how ever i
still interest to learn brlcad now |
| 02:51.34 |
louipc |
handsome_evil: it's at least as good as
solidworks' dwgeditor :P |
| 02:52.08 |
brlcad |
hmm.. maybe
solidworks is just rewrapping qcad... hmmm! |
| 02:52.39 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 02:52.53 |
brlcad |
there was
someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad,
since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off
since |
| 02:53.26 |
IriX64 |
did the door
hit them in the arse on the way out ;) |
| 02:53.38 |
brlcad |
we have a
(lame) sketch editor that is used for editing sketch primtives,
that could easily invoke qcad instead |
| 02:53.45 |
louipc |
oh wow,
wonder what came of that |
| 02:54.13 |
handsome_evil |
??? brl-cad
support qcad?? |
| 02:54.19 |
Twingy |
brlcad, I
modified the captcha code and no more spammers,
http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/profile.php?mode=register&sid=b748de68a4c350844d1026bdc4a6ec99 |
| 02:54.32 |
brlcad |
Twingy:
swank |
| 02:54.36 |
louipc |
cool |
| 02:54.47 |
brlcad |
handsome_evil: I don't really care about
them, but if you're looking for drafting, they do that better than
we do |
| 02:55.18 |
brlcad |
i've got no
problems being open about our weaknesses |
| 02:55.28 |
handsome_evil |
brlcad: there
was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with
brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off
since >> i confused with this sentence |
| 02:56.03 |
handsome_evil |
what is mean
integrating?? |
| 02:56.03 |
brlcad |
there was an
individual here in the channel a while ago that wanted drafting
features similar to what you want |
| 02:56.06 |
IriX64 |
Twingy...
should add to that "and also any applicable laws where *you
live" |
| 02:56.17 |
brlcad |
integrating:
making the two work together cleanly |
| 02:56.29 |
Twingy |
IriX64, for
what purpose? |
| 02:56.37 |
handsome_evil |
oh.. i
see |
| 02:56.41 |
IriX64 |
cover as many
bases as possible. |
| 02:56.49 |
Twingy |
huh? |
| 02:57.03 |
IriX64 |
whats legal
here may be illegal there and vice vers. |
| 02:57.06 |
brlcad |
so if you
wanted drafting, you would get a (clean) subset of qcad .. if you
wanted solid modeling, or use that drafting sketch in a solid
model, you'd have brl-cad |
| 02:57.53 |
brlcad |
IriX64: that
intro is required in the US |
| 02:58.14 |
IriX64 |
doesn't mean
you can't add to it. or does it? |
| 02:58.38 |
brlcad |
it's a
website, you could do anything to it |
| 02:58.47 |
brlcad |
put little
floating penis's if you wanted |
| 02:59.35 |
brlcad |
as the host
of a public forum on the web, though, if you want to protect your
arse from legal action, you have to at least ask if they're
underage |
| 02:59.52 |
brlcad |
it only
matters really if they click the second link |
| 03:00.11 |
IriX64 |
of course, we
had one site here wanting photcopies of your drivers
licence. |
| 03:00.46 |
IriX64 |
little more
overhead but it could pay off. |
| 03:00.46 |
brlcad |
Twingy: what
exactly did you modify? just a different pattern? |
| 03:01.22 |
Twingy |
different
noise pattern and image size |
| 03:01.41 |
brlcad |
any
modification that's "custom" is pretty sufficient to ward off the
spammers presuming there's not a captcha like that
elsewhere |
| 03:01.42 |
Twingy |
to add
special characters would require working knowledge of the gzip
algorithm |
| 03:03.41 |
brlcad |
after you get
some users and spammer attempts, i'd be curious to know how many
get through |
| 03:04.32 |
brlcad |
some should
still get through, as they are humans with that as some sort of day
job from what I have seen |
| 03:05.26 |
brlcad |
we get maybe
2-4 a month now on bz's (with hundreds of attempts per
day) |
| 03:05.38 |
Maloeran |
Humans
reading and typing captcha all day long, that seems like a
productive existence to benefit humanity... |
| 03:06.03 |
brlcad |
bz's has a
special additional input box that asks .. "what's the name of this
game?" |
| 03:06.37 |
``Erik |
ehehehe kinda
like lisp.paste.org's captcha? "what language is this pastebin
written in?" with the answer right there? :D |
| 03:06.41 |
brlcad |
I'd be really
impressed if someone automated a response that can correctly answer
that |
| 03:06.50 |
``Erik |
er |
| 03:06.53 |
``Erik |
paste.lisp.org rather |
| 03:07.05 |
brlcad |
does wonders
to stop the spam |
| 03:07.10 |
Maloeran |
Just wait for
this AI to have a larger knowledge base, to put any question into
its right context... :) |
| 03:07.20 |
brlcad |
but alas they
still make it through, which leads be to believe they are
people |
| 03:07.55 |
brlcad |
i've seen
some sites with things like "what is the number on [this] page?"
that you have to go to and hunt for |
| 03:08.21 |
``Erik |
man, I
remember shit like that on video games as piracy
protection |
| 03:08.23 |
brlcad |
as it is,
you'd be surprised how many people actually get "what's the name of
this game?" wrong... ;-) |
| 03:08.35 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes Erik,
that was horrible! |
| 03:08.39 |
``Erik |
battle zone!
uh... flag... |
| 03:08.59 |
brlcad |
if the answer
has a bz or flag anywhere in the answer, it lets you by |
| 03:08.59 |
``Erik |
what's the
third word of the second paragraph on page 44? |
| 03:09.01 |
Maloeran |
It was very
easy to fix generally though, just a single jcc opcode |
| 03:09.01 |
``Erik |
"the" |
| 03:09.26 |
brlcad |
yet every
month about two people e-mail saying they don't know what to put
there (in kiddie lingo) |
| 03:09.48 |
``Erik |
at least with
pirates, it was semi-interesting... "what month was the silver
train in vera cruz in 1640?" |
| 03:11.07 |
IriX64 |
jcc? |
| 03:11.19 |
Maloeran |
Any
conditional jump, jxx if you prefer |
| 03:11.25 |
brlcad |
"Do girls
really have cooties?" |
| 03:11.43 |
IriX64 |
heh like jc
jnc jnz etc? |
| 03:11.45 |
brlcad |
"All
politicians are: a) hard-working, b) honest, or c) on the public
payroll" - the answer to which is c). |
| 03:11.52 |
Maloeran |
Right,
IriX64 |
| 03:11.59 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 03:13.38 |
IriX64 |
bout to try
this whole pix2png thing. |
| 03:14.15 |
IriX64 |
pix-png i
mean. |
| 03:14.35 |
``Erik |
mal: have you
seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OISC |
| 03:15.01 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: define void
if it's not so we don't bail out, even though this version of tcl
will be disappearing soon |
| 03:16.02 |
Maloeran |
Indirectly I
did, Erik, yes |
| 03:16.33 |
Maloeran |
The program
is entirely stored in the data instead, which... is pretty much the
same |
| 03:17.15 |
Maloeran |
You could say
that processors only execute one instruction, which is to fetch the
next sequence of bytes and act upon its value. Oh well |
| 03:23.41 |
Twingy |
brlcad, check
out my captcha now, added a pattern |
| 03:24.09 |
Twingy |
argyle type
deal |
| 03:24.30 |
CIA-5 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: also define
const just so we don't fail compilation |
| 03:24.31 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 03:25.00 |
brlcad |
confirmation
code.. XXXXXXX8WWS3V |
| 03:25.05 |
Twingy |
hehe |
| 03:25.29 |
Twingy |
you'd have to
be kinda retarded to do that :) |
| 03:26.10 |
brlcad |
next to
animate it! |
| 03:26.18 |
brlcad |
little
bouncing gif |
| 03:26.32 |
Twingy |
path traced
objects |
| 03:26.37 |
brlcad |
a spinning
beachball |
| 03:26.51 |
brlcad |
floating
penis's |
| 03:26.54 |
Twingy |
YMCA guys
spelling out captchas |
| 03:26.57 |
Maloeran |
Multiple
overlapping transparent png pictures and each reveal a piece of
character! |
| 03:27.03 |
Twingy |
with floating
penis's |
| 03:27.08 |
Twingy |
that'd be
super gay |
| 03:27.08 |
Maloeran |
Plus, you
will filter out all IE users with broken png support |
| 03:27.12 |
brlcad |
in
chaps |
| 03:27.35 |
Twingy |
yes, don't
forget the chaps |
| 03:27.35 |
Twingy |
and indian
head dress |
| 03:27.39 |
Twingy |
and peanut'
buttah' jelly time guys in the back ground |
| 03:28.08 |
brlcad |
and hopping
chocolate eggs |
| 03:28.27 |
brlcad |
being eaten
by badgers |
| 03:28.28 |
Twingy |
with emit
brown from back to the feature for good measure |
| 03:28.36 |
Twingy |
*future |
| 03:29.35 |
Twingy |
followed by a
partial differential equation they have to solve in 3
seconds |
| 03:30.09 |
Twingy |
but it's
presented as a jumbogram |
| 03:30.14 |
Twingy |
jumblegram
rather |
| 03:30.36 |
Twingy |
as long as
it's not overly complicated it should work just fine |
| 03:31.01 |
louipc |
hahah |
| 03:31.06 |
Twingy |
10:30, it's
running time, bbl |
| 03:50.06 |
IriX64 |
supposed to
keel when you see that :) |
| 03:50.12 |
IriX64 |
kneel
too. |
| 03:50.40 |
Maloeran |
And this was
translated, Elizabeth II holds the copyright on french speaking
pages of the Quebec government in Canada |
| 03:51.47 |
IriX64 |
really? |
| 03:51.56 |
IriX64 |
how far back
are you going? |
| 03:52.45 |
Maloeran |
Hum? I'm not
following |
| 03:53.01 |
IriX64 |
how old are
these documents? |
| 03:53.09 |
Maloeran |
Very
recent |
| 03:53.20 |
IriX64 |
and they
still add that? |
| 03:54.03 |
Maloeran |
I never saw
this before, apparently they still do |
| 04:06.32 |
louipc |
They're still
part of Canada however much they complain. |
| 04:07.19 |
Maloeran |
I'm fine with
that, I'm less fine with the queen of England holding copyright on
all government publications |
| 04:08.02 |
louipc |
I don't know
why we don't shrug her off already |
| 04:09.11 |
louipc |
She keeps
someone in charge here called the Governor General, who appoints
the Prime Minister |
| 04:09.28 |
louipc |
it's more of
a useless ceremonial thing |
| 04:11.33 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran:
Tell them they have to read every line :) |
| 04:12.42 |
IriX64 |
louipc did
you get it to compile? |
| 04:12.55 |
IriX64 |
i was away
for a bit. |
| 04:12.57 |
louipc |
yep, and
install |
| 04:13.11 |
IriX64 |
does it run
well on your system? |
| 04:13.33 |
louipc |
IriX64:
haven't tested it much, but I ran into a problem with
archer |
| 04:13.43 |
IriX64 |
btw your os
being? |
| 04:13.48 |
louipc |
linux |
| 04:14.06 |
IriX64 |
mged
performs? |
| 04:14.07 |
louipc |
I'm making
packages for as much stuff in other/ as I can |
| 04:14.39 |
louipc |
mged works
enough.. the help manual doesn't come up still I have to figure
that out |
| 04:14.51 |
louipc |
something to
do with $mged_browser something |
| 04:14.56 |
IriX64 |
there are
docs in share i think. |
| 04:14.59 |
Maloeran |
louipc, is
archer complaining about some BLT thing? |
| 04:15.27 |
Maloeran |
I just wanted
to confirm as I encountered what I guess is the same
problem |
| 04:15.43 |
louipc |
Maloeran: I
didn't get that far it was one of the other TCL extensions
though |
| 04:16.13 |
louipc |
I think...
could have been blt |
| 04:16.34 |
IriX64 |
try it for
him louipc ill do the same. |
| 04:18.17 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/365701
< === problem here. |
| 04:18.23 |
louipc |
nope, just
can't find itcl.tcl just a path thing I think |
| 04:18.55 |
IriX64 |
the archer
window came up though but all greyed out |
| 04:19.47 |
brlcad |
mged_browser
is the problem, it doesn't search very hard for an html
viewer |
| 04:20.14 |
brlcad |
known issue,
just nobody has gotten to fixing it yet |
| 04:20.21 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran: I
know little flying penis's about tcl ;) |
| 04:20.23 |
brlcad |
only affects
some platforms |
| 04:20.30 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 04:20.39 |
louipc |
brlcad:
that's my first target after packages ;) |
| 04:20.59 |
brlcad |
cool
:) |
| 04:23.35 |
Twingy |
back |
| 04:27.09 |
IriX64 |
startup
script? Is there a standard name for a startup tcl
script? |
| 04:28.36 |
louipc |
that error
message doesn't tell much hm |
| 04:28.51 |
IriX64 |
gives a line
number.... |
| 04:29.47 |
IriX64 |
i can't do
much with it but the people who know prolly can. |
| 04:30.10 |
brlcad |
.mgedrc? |
| 04:30.24 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 04:30.37 |
IriX64 |
thats the
startup script? |
| 04:30.40 |
brlcad |
ooh, you're
trying to run archer |
| 04:30.41 |
brlcad |
never
mind |
| 04:30.51 |
IriX64 |
heh
ty |
| 04:31.18 |
brlcad |
i did say
earlier that archer needs a bit of compilation tweaking to get
working, it's not going to work out of the box on any system at the
moment |
| 04:31.37 |
brlcad |
it's not even
been officially announced as ready to use |
| 04:32.05 |
IriX64 |
was just
trying to help Maloeran. |
| 04:32.09 |
louipc |
oh is archer
the next GUI you mentioned? |
| 04:32.24 |
brlcad |
louipc: no
it's not, but it's somewhere between the two |
| 04:32.35 |
louipc |
ah
alright |
| 04:32.44 |
brlcad |
has some
really good ideas, and if anything shows what mged could be
like |
| 04:34.24 |
brlcad |
you're more
than welcome to work on archer, heck I'll give anyone commit access
if they're serious about working on it |
| 04:35.14 |
brlcad |
i'm just not
going to help much since it's on the todo list to fix it later
already, and I'm trying to push a release out with different
updates ;) |
| 04:35.25 |
brlcad |
other than to
say "good luck with that" =) |
| 04:35.35 |
louipc |
:D |
| 06:11.10 |
IriX64 |
gcc 4.1.1
also qualifies as lots and lots of code :) |
| 06:11.27 |
IriX64 |
to compile I
mean. |
| 06:18.53 |
IriX64 |
you think i
would have learned my lesson about the latest and greatest thing by
now :) |
| 07:09.20 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-186.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:04.04 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 09:41.57 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.57 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 09:41.57 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 11:00.38 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-7 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) |
| 14:36.00 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.176.180) |
| 14:36.52 |
Maloeran |
Ah! They
finally received the memory for the 8 cores box |
| 16:21.20 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.173.99) |
| 17:45.25 |
``Erik |
mrph. |
| 17:45.57 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-60-80.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:45.26 |
brlcad |
``Erik: did
you modify any of the apache modules, or apache, or libapr or
something yesterday? |
| 18:45.48 |
brlcad |
have massive
httpd woes going on atm |
| 19:12.14 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.183.191) |
| 19:15.47 |
clock_ |
brlcad: do
you ride snowboard? |
| 19:17.57 |
``Erik |
I don't think
so, what woes? |
| 19:18.13 |
``Erik |
show me where
the breakage exhibits and I'll fix o.O |
| 19:19.21 |
``Erik |
<-- was
trying to be careful not to touch web and bzflag related stuff...
was avoiding the db's until noticing they're totally
unused... |
| 19:22.04 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: Remove ON_BREP conditional,
rely on _cplusplus instead |
| 19:32.10 |
brlcad |
clock_: never
tried |
| 19:34.54 |
``Erik |
ah, creating
an account seems to do it |
| 19:35.18 |
*** part/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.183.191) |
| 19:54.47 |
brlcad |
``Erik: it
looks like anything via php that tries to kick off an
e-mail |
| 19:56.18 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
http://bzflag.bz/~sean/emailtest.php
this will consistently crash it |
| 19:59.07 |
``Erik |
okie,
thnx |
| 20:04.10 |
brlcad |
I believe
that same crash happens when php || httpd are compiled sans
-pthread |
| 20:04.27 |
brlcad |
some wierd
interaction goes on |
| 20:31.36 |
``Erik |
uhhhhh |
| 20:35.19 |
brlcad |
fyi, if you
hadn't noticed already, there are scripts running that watch and
talk to apache to ensure that it's running and that a botnet hasn't
somehow attached -- if you kill it without a restart, it'll get
restarted on it's own within a minute or two |
| 20:35.38 |
brlcad |
which is just
to say that if you need it to go down and stay down, you'll have to
turn off the script |
| 20:35.49 |
brlcad |
(i'll do it
if you need that) |
| 20:36.45 |
``Erik |
I've been
bouncing it pretty quick... butseperate versions of apache were
trying to run at the same time (I think) |
| 20:40.48 |
``Erik |
damn this is
an old fbsd, I'm forgettin' if the gotchas have changed,
heh |
| 20:40.56 |
Maloeran |
Hum, let's
try a hackish manual installation |
| 20:41.42 |
Maloeran |
new box, that
is |
| 20:44.48 |
``Erik |
well, yeah,
obviously |
| 20:44.57 |
``Erik |
but I forget
which gotchas went away and which were introduced after
512 |
| 20:44.58 |
``Erik |
521 |
| 20:48.13 |
brlcad |
from ports
perspective, -pthread is the one that I have to watch for and
hand-tweak |
| 20:48.43 |
brlcad |
iirc apache's
configure actually ignores the flags and does it's own thing so you
might have to abort and hand-tweak |
| 20:54.13 |
brlcad |
yes, I'd love
to upgrade |
| 20:54.28 |
brlcad |
if I ever
take a road trip down south, I might do it ;) |
| 20:54.53 |
brlcad |
if I didn't
have such a sweet deal on bandwidth, I'd get a second server with
6.2 and just migrate |
| 20:56.01 |
brlcad |
but their
current plans only offer a third of the bandwidth I currently get
and a few bucks more expensive to boot |
| 20:56.04 |
``Erik |
it's not that
far away, it's just down in man-asses, va, right? |
| 20:56.10 |
brlcad |
don't care
about the money, but the bandwidth is teh suck |
| 20:56.25 |
brlcad |
heh, va??
what gave you that idea? |
| 20:56.39 |
``Erik |
reverse
lookup? |
| 20:56.52 |
brlcad |
out on the
pan handle |
| 20:57.07 |
brlcad |
soaking up ze
rays |
| 20:57.57 |
brlcad |
any luck with
that backtrace? when I tried, it was mostly useless
garbage |
| 20:58.03 |
``Erik |
garbage, but
mentioned apr |
| 20:58.10 |
``Erik |
so I fixed up
a new apr to shove in |
| 20:59.33 |
``Erik |
ah, woops,
wrong #, was lookin' at my dns server, hurrrr |
| 21:00.18 |
brlcad |
coupled with
some 5.2 pthread bad behavior |
| 21:03.38 |
brlcad |
yeah, I have
a similar bug in there with the php folks |
| 21:03.49 |
brlcad |
I think I let
it close after they made "some" attempt at a fix |
| 21:07.23 |
``Erik |
what the holy
crap did they do |
| 21:07.34 |
brlcad |
http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=37120 |
| 21:08.32 |
brlcad |
so yeah,
still a php bug.. but related to pthread misbehavior on that apr
subprocess |
| 21:09.14 |
brlcad |
getting that
trace was a bitch |
| 21:09.43 |
brlcad |
what version
is in ports now? |
| 21:10.05 |
``Erik |
of what,
apache? 2.2.4 |
| 21:12.25 |
brlcad |
php |
| 21:12.42 |
``Erik |
5.2.1 I
think |
| 21:13.08 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 21:15.36 |
``Erik |
did you hook
dan up with his latest brl-cad issue? |
| 21:16.17 |
brlcad |
i think I
fixed that yesterday |
| 21:16.33 |
``Erik |
hm, he sent
it an hour ago |
| 21:16.34 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:17.24 |
brlcad |
i'll look
again, but trying not to get distracted too far from auto_path bits
as that is going to be a big change that'll impact him
too |
| 21:32.22 |
``Erik |
hrm, apache
and php5 have both been rebuild with the pthread
modification... |
| 21:32.28 |
``Erik |
still does
it... |
| 21:33.28 |
``Erik |
what's the
watcher script? |
| 21:36.29 |
``Erik |
ah, ya
already turned it off |
| 21:39.59 |
``Erik |
screw
it |
| 21:40.07 |
``Erik |
I backed out
the changes, it's not throwing sig6 anymore |
| 21:43.42 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/366733
< === Maloeran, this is mine :) |
| 21:45.18 |
``Erik |
just
one? |
| 21:46.05 |
Maloeran |
The real
question is how well the 1066mhz memory bus will cope with the 8
cores, they still got 4mb of L2 cache each |
| 21:48.12 |
archivist |
386's should
be enough |
| 21:48.46 |
``Erik |
well, ya want
the machines fast enough that the link between 'em has some penalty
associated... |
| 21:48.54 |
louipc |
what's with
openNURBS wanting your email to download? |
| 21:50.53 |
IriX64 |
this ones
data because its an unrecognized operand, so we'll put it in the
data cache as opposed to the instruction cache. |
| 21:50.54 |
Maloeran |
Erik,
amusingly, 1066mhz/8 is about the memory bus that early Pentium
had |
| 21:51.10 |
Maloeran |
I can only
hope that each core is not going to access ram as intensively, with
the 4mb cache... or performance is going to be truly
pathetic |
| 21:55.11 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/366744
<=== anybody know what this is trying to tell me, I'm not
familiar with such runtime errors. |
| 22:00.11 |
Maloeran |
That errno is
Connection reset by peer |
| 22:00.37 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran,
mine? |
| 22:01.33 |
IriX64 |
happened
again. |
| 22:01.49 |
IriX64 |
trying to map
m35. |
| 22:04.11 |
IriX64 |
started from
scratch, lets see if it can do a normal view. |
| 22:21.49 |
IriX64 |
its not me,
does it everytime. |
| 22:26.21 |
IriX64 |
worms eye
view of ktank, nice :) |
| 22:27.07 |
IriX64 |
you people
should make that a standard view, worm's eye view, birds eye
view,... |
| 22:34.20 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
turned what off? |
| 22:35.00 |
brlcad |
i'm impressed
that you could actually back that far out..... |
| 22:36.07 |
brlcad |
louipc: my
guess is that, like most companies, they *really* want a bean count
of how many real unique downloads there are and the numbers make
managers happy |
| 22:37.54 |
brlcad |
IriX64: does
the framebuffer close, remain partially rendered, or are you
closing the window? |
| 22:46.04 |
IriX64 |
just prints
that error, does not even attempt to render it and says raytrace
complete. |
| 22:46.20 |
IriX64 |
all windows
remain open. |
| 22:46.38 |
IriX64 |
but terra.g
crashes mged working on that now. |
| 22:47.02 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/366802
whats wrong with this, keeps saying expected expression before
if. |
| 22:51.28 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/366808
<< this is the error message *before i started fooling
around. |
| 22:52.43 |
brlcad |
you have a
typo on line 5 |
| 22:52.48 |
brlcad |
close the
bu_log |
| 22:54.06 |
IriX64 |
must be blind
i dont see it. |
| 22:54.47 |
IriX64 |
besides my
compiler points me at the if.... |
| 22:55.42 |
brlcad |
look
hard |
| 22:55.45 |
brlcad |
two
characters missing |
| 22:58.14 |
IriX64 |
bu_log("BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE failed file %s,
line %d\n",__FILE__,__LINE__); |
| 22:58.18 |
IriX64 |
where? |
| 23:01.50 |
IriX64 |
#define
printx("In file %s at line%d \n",__FILE__,__LINE__); |
| 23:01.57 |
IriX64 |
this i use
too. |
| 23:03.37 |
IriX64 |
beware
__FUNCTION__ not all compilers are created equeal :) |
| 23:04.25 |
IriX64 |
can use
#ifndef __FUNCTION__ #define __FUNCTION__ __LINE__ |
| 23:05.11 |
brlcad |
that's not
what you put in the pastebin |
| 23:05.20 |
brlcad |
so perhaps
just the pastebin is wrong |
| 23:05.46 |
IriX64 |
man im
looking at it |
| 23:05.55 |
brlcad |
pastebin is
missing ); |
| 23:06.25 |
IriX64 |
ahhh ic its
there thouhg in the file, i must have missed with the
mouse. |
| 23:06.46 |
IriX64 |
soirry for
the confusion. |
| 23:11.22 |
IriX64 |
is
BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE a function or a macro? |
| 23:11.36 |
IriX64 |
gotta be a
macro, sorry. |
| 23:14.07 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: seems
other versions in the 1.2 line also have voidpc |
| 23:33.21 |
IriX64 |
s/__FILE__
for last ocuurence of __LINE__ :( (goof) |
| 23:37.11 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: updating the timestamp seems to
cause an empty include/brlcad_config.h.in under at least some other
versions of autoconf/autoheader so disable it for now until the
reason can be determined. |
| 23:38.19 |
IriX64 |
where did you
hide BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE? |
| 23:39.37 |
brlcad |
include/bu.h |
| 23:39.45 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 23:42.51 |
IriX64 |
that
signature, has it ever been changed since the databases were
designed? |
| 23:51.43 |
IriX64 |
thats not
whats crashing mged. |
| 23:54.19 |
IriX64 |
mapped file
open failed everytime i browse geometry, when i e something it
crashes. |
| 00:00.23 |
IriX64 |
could it be a
bug in asc2g? |
| 00:01.02 |
IriX64 |
still mged
should *not crash. |
| 00:24.40 |
``Erik |
brlcad: I saw
a script in /etc/crontab for checking apache that was commented
out... |
| 00:27.48 |
``Erik |
and of course
I could back that far out, I'm a fuckin' pro |
| 00:27.57 |
``Erik |
*duck* |
| 00:49.27 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:52.43 |
IriX64 |
two instances
of gcc consumes cpu. |
| 00:54.42 |
IriX64 |
why don't
they build disk interface (and disks to go with them ) that allow a
request of more data while data xfer is already in progress? sort
of like full duplex communications. |
| 00:55.38 |
IriX64 |
eliminate the
disk bottleneck or at least reduce it. |
| 00:57.34 |
IriX64 |
sharability
test is going well. |
| 00:58.04 |
``Erik |
they,
uh |
| 00:58.04 |
``Erik |
do |
| 00:58.06 |
``Erik |
they're
called scsi |
| 00:58.32 |
``Erik |
sata's are
starting to do a lot of the fu, too |
| 00:58.37 |
``Erik |
<-- does
all the time |
| 00:58.42 |
``Erik |
also; I like
doing make -j |
| 00:58.45 |
``Erik |
wit hsome big
number |
| 00:58.57 |
Twingy |
make
-justin |
| 00:59.16 |
Twingy |
base 26
:D |
| 00:59.28 |
``Erik |
that'd be a
fairly big number there :D |
| 00:59.31 |
IriX64 |
err
+18 |
| 01:00.16 |
``Erik |
hmmmm, still
not southpark season :/ |
| 01:00.38 |
IriX64 |
victoria
secret season tho :) |
| 01:07.45 |
IriX64 |
on the other
hand it gives the cpu a rest waiting on disk. |
| 01:14.22 |
``Erik |
yeah, cpu's
just love thermal shock |
| 01:16.07 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/366985
< somethings wonky with my load avg :( |
| 01:16.49 |
IriX64 |
``Erik they
stay warm for quite some time especially if you provide a woolen
coat :) |
| 01:18.22 |
IriX64 |
ahh i
remember, they don't know about each other. |
| 01:20.12 |
IriX64 |
hahah xterm
says the same thing. |
| 01:35.31 |
IriX64 |
msg ``Erik
you like png? I'll give you png, check incoming. :) |
| 01:35.58 |
IriX64 |
how do i
recover from that :( |
| 01:36.35 |
IriX64 |
and here I
thought finangle passed me by sigh. |
| 01:38.28 |
louipc |
it takes me
like 2hrs to compile brlcad :P |
| 01:39.35 |
IriX64 |
*ahem* let's
get back on topic, soon as BRL-CAD finishes installing i'm going to
see about something. |
| 01:39.53 |
IriX64 |
ahh thankyou
for putting me back on topic louipc. |
| 01:39.56 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:40.13 |
IriX64 |
2hrs, mines
about 1hr. |
| 01:40.18 |
louipc |
no
prob |
| 01:40.37 |
IriX64 |
you
enable-almost-everything too? |
| 01:40.59 |
louipc |
I'm running
PIII 866 MHz 384MB RAM |
| 01:41.08 |
louipc |
I enable
optimized |
| 01:41.09 |
louipc |
that's
it |
| 01:41.21 |
IriX64 |
and it takes
2hrs? |
| 01:41.43 |
louipc |
yeaaah I have
an old computer |
| 01:42.06 |
IriX64 |
overclocked
obviously. |
| 01:42.15 |
louipc |
nope I don't
do that |
| 01:42.26 |
IriX64 |
then why
866? |
| 01:42.59 |
louipc |
because
that's what I bought 6yrs ago :D |
| 01:43.07 |
IriX64 |
heh. |
| 01:43.25 |
louipc |
yeah I need
to upgrade hm? |
| 01:44.06 |
louipc |
It'll be such
of a jump, my head will probably spin off |
| 01:44.26 |
IriX64 |
do it from
parts its cheaper, the video you can probably retain. |
| 01:45.08 |
louipc |
I think the
gfx got wonked in a storm, or my monitor |
| 01:45.40 |
louipc |
building from
parts is never cheaper for me. I try to put in good
stuff |
| 01:46.33 |
louipc |
but I
wouldn't do it any other way |
| 01:47.11 |
louipc |
!? |
| 01:47.32 |
louipc |
where do you
get such a thing? |
| 01:47.38 |
Maloeran |
Still
installing base software for my new toy |
| 01:47.48 |
Maloeran |
Just bought
it, received today |
| 01:48.24 |
louipc |
where'd you
buy that from? |
| 01:48.56 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:49.30 |
Maloeran |
What do you
mean, louipc? I ordered the pieces at some local shop.. which is
surely not available where you live |
| 01:50.02 |
louipc |
ah
alright |
| 01:50.14 |
louipc |
I think the
most I can get is 4 cores |
| 01:51.25 |
Maloeran |
Clovertown
chips are 4 cores, put two on the same motherboard. Or you can put
2-4 dual-core opterons |
| 01:51.32 |
louipc |
ah I
see |
| 01:51.53 |
louipc |
yeah I'd like
2 cpus |
| 01:52.46 |
Maloeran |
The thing is
fairly noisy, but as much as my old overclocked AMD64 in a
home-made plexiglass case with two 160mm 110V fans |
| 01:53.44 |
Maloeran |
There weren't
any board that allowed overclocking of Clovertown chips, so there
was no reason to motivate any exotic case building... |
| 02:00.10 |
IriX64 |
ermf add
too. |
| 02:02.14 |
IriX64 |
whats the
"proper" way to reinstall just one component of BRL-CAD when you
toy with the individual pieces? |
| 02:03.35 |
``Erik |
in the dir of
the thing you mucked with, type "make install" |
| 02:03.41 |
IriX64 |
ahhhh louipc
this should work make -changed_only install right? :) |
| 02:05.22 |
``Erik |
no can do,
gubmint properties |
| 02:05.36 |
``Erik |
also; you
couldn't handle the sheer awesomeness of fbsd |
| 02:05.37 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 02:05.47 |
IriX64 |
if i lived
there i'd say well i'm a taxpayer :) |
| 02:06.46 |
IriX64 |
say ``Erik,
has Gionnini been around lately? |
| 02:07.22 |
``Erik |
whowhathuh? |
| 02:07.31 |
IriX64 |
;) |
| 02:08.21 |
IriX64 |
Navy peron
don't worry bout it. |
| 02:08.27 |
IriX64 |
person
too. |
| 02:10.58 |
IriX64 |
freebsd
eh? |
| 02:11.18 |
IriX64 |
its free for
a reason. (duck) |
| 02:13.58 |
``Erik |
uh, yes,
because it has one of the most liberal licenses in existance...
that's where the name comes from... |
| 02:14.19 |
``Erik |
because
jolitz was being a cockbite with bsd386 |
| 02:14.58 |
IriX64 |
lucky for you
we're not in meixed company, ermf am i sure of that? |
| 02:15.03 |
IriX64 |
mixed
too. |
| 02:15.17 |
``Erik |
and the whole
at&t lawsuit thing that resulted in much rewriting of old
code |
| 02:15.31 |
``Erik |
resulting in
bsd4.4lite |
| 02:15.49 |
IriX64 |
I've never
had the pleasure of fbsd ``Erik, is it that good? |
| 02:16.02 |
``Erik |
I like it
*shrug* |
| 02:16.40 |
``Erik |
fbsd is the
'unix' part of macosX, to boot |
| 02:16.52 |
IriX64 |
why did thet
go away from the .exe thing? |
| 02:16.57 |
``Erik |
uhhh |
| 02:16.59 |
``Erik |
away
from? |
| 02:17.21 |
``Erik |
bsd predates
cp/m and qdos (later brandraped to be msdos) by quite a
bit |
| 02:17.26 |
louipc |
Maloeran: you
have Intel chips? |
| 02:17.36 |
IriX64 |
freebsd stuff
ive seen uses no extension, i assume it uses both relying on the
signature in the file like most others true or false |
| 02:17.40 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 02:17.48 |
``Erik |
no, it relies
mostly on the permissions of the file |
| 02:17.51 |
``Erik |
it's a
unix |
| 02:18.14 |
IriX64 |
execute
visavisa data, that thing. |
| 02:18.46 |
IriX64 |
does that
shield you though from DEP? |
| 02:18.54 |
IriX64 |
err drop the
p |
| 02:19.07 |
``Erik |
'DE'? |
| 02:19.27 |
IriX64 |
data
execution, ive read a bit about data execution
prevention. |
| 02:20.01 |
Maloeran |
Yes louipc,
AMD hasn't released their quad-cores yet.. |
| 02:20.09 |
``Erik |
yeah, uh,
that's something else... and very protected in some variants of
bsd... obsd being the most aggressive, with the w^x
paging |
| 02:20.11 |
IriX64 |
DEP to help
protect your system from malicious code. |
| 02:20.11 |
louipc |
IriX64: same
in linux, executables usually have no extension |
| 02:20.33 |
IriX64 |
ahh
ty |
| 02:21.18 |
louipc |
Maloeran: ah
I didn't think that you'd go for those |
| 02:21.27 |
``Erik |
and usually
it's called injection, and usually done via a stack
smash |
| 02:22.04 |
Maloeran |
I'm all AMD
usually, Intel's latest chips are supposed to be decent |
| 02:29.27 |
Twingy |
numaPIC |
| 02:29.44 |
``Erik |
numanumanumanuma |
| 02:29.51 |
Twingy |
DEY TUK R
JBS! |
| 02:30.01 |
``Erik |
that'd be,
like, the geekiest 'badger' song ever |
| 02:30.59 |
Twingy |
I'll tell you
what, this twin engine plane is the most addictive thing
ever |
| 02:31.16 |
Twingy |
I ran into
some one else flying an electric at the high school this
evening |
| 02:31.27 |
Twingy |
being about
to fly < 1 mile from my house is awesome :) |
| 02:32.18 |
``Erik |
pretty
fast? |
| 02:32.32 |
Twingy |
moderately |
| 02:32.36 |
Twingy |
but it sounds
awesome |
| 02:32.45 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:32.47 |
Twingy |
main reason
why I haven't gone electric yet |
| 02:32.50 |
``Erik |
swap off
htose mufflers for tuned pipes :D |
| 02:32.53 |
Twingy |
just doesn't
sound the same |
| 02:33.10 |
Twingy |
I usually fly
at 1/2 throttle |
| 02:33.18 |
Twingy |
but when you
open it up it's very much a 3D plane |
| 02:33.55 |
Twingy |
starting both
engines up is no big deal either |
| 02:33.59 |
``Erik |
cool |
| 02:34.01 |
Twingy |
takes about a
minute |
| 02:34.09 |
``Erik |
are they
bothing feeding off the same fuel tank? |
| 02:34.09 |
Twingy |
I might swap
out the 4oz tanks for 6oz ones |
| 02:34.14 |
``Erik |
ah,
seperate |
| 02:34.23 |
Twingy |
4oz tanks ==
10-12 minute flights |
| 02:34.38 |
Twingy |
since you've
only got 0.25 FX's drawing off them |
| 02:35.01 |
Twingy |
I've got a
pair of 0.46 LA's I don't know what to do with yet |
| 02:35.16 |
Twingy |
need to get
gerber junk into gcam |
| 02:35.52 |
``Erik |
.46's would
make a fairly big twin |
| 02:36.13 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 02:36.19 |
Twingy |
we've got
like 100 0.60 |
| 02:36.23 |
Twingy |
0.60's at
work |
| 02:36.32 |
Twingy |
those'd make
it move :) |
| 02:37.06 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 02:37.07 |
Twingy |
I might just
buy a 0.60-0.90 plane and build that up |
| 02:37.18 |
Twingy |
since I have
2 receivers and xmitters now |
| 02:37.29 |
``Erik |
hm, still on
the island? |
| 02:37.47 |
Twingy |
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHCR7&P=0 |
| 02:37.49 |
Twingy |
bought
that |
| 02:37.57 |
Twingy |
should be
here next week |
| 02:38.13 |
Twingy |
you can set
it to any channel |
| 02:38.16 |
Twingy |
no
crystal |
| 02:38.19 |
``Erik |
cool |
| 02:38.40 |
Twingy |
yes, in fact
spent half the day testing the autopilot |
| 02:38.44 |
``Erik |
my futabu 6ch
uses a crystal :/ |
| 02:38.50 |
``Erik |
futuba |
| 02:38.58 |
Twingy |
hehe |
| 02:38.59 |
Twingy |
fu
tabu |
| 02:39.13 |
Twingy |
brian hates
the futabas |
| 02:39.17 |
Twingy |
he's all
JR |
| 02:39.26 |
Twingy |
I'm liking
hitech stuff |
| 02:39.26 |
``Erik |
bah |
| 02:39.30 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
I disabled the script just in case |
| 02:39.41 |
Twingy |
I haven't had
one of those in some time |
| 02:40.01 |
Twingy |
probly 8
months ago |
| 02:40.08 |
``Erik |
aaanyways, if
you get a little free time, you should take a few of us out to the
island to show us your toys :) |
| 02:40.34 |
Twingy |
probably 2
weeks from now might be good |
| 02:40.44 |
Twingy |
I might have
some neat stuff to demonstrate |
| 02:40.52 |
``Erik |
cool |
| 02:41.46 |
Twingy |
we just got a
box of neat stuff that will allow me to finish building my neat
stuff |
| 02:41.55 |
``Erik |
check this
out... I had to update the fire escape maps... to mark the SIP
rooms... so I did that... NOW the fucktard wants me to verify that
the symbol I chose is ok for that map. ffs. |
| 02:42.12 |
Twingy |
you gotta get
out of there... |
| 02:42.15 |
``Erik |
no
shit |
| 02:42.20 |
Twingy |
why won't you
listen to me :) |
| 02:42.31 |
Twingy |
stop sitting
with your thumb up your butt and move |
| 02:43.03 |
Twingy |
if I were you
'd be making phone calls left and right to CISD and
HRED |
| 02:43.07 |
``Erik |
<-- is
putting effort towards it, installed latex on his machine so he can
work on his resume o.O then got sidetracked *cough* |
| 02:43.19 |
Twingy |
outside or
inside ARL? |
| 02:43.19 |
``Erik |
hm, I've
heard less than thrilling things about cisd lately |
| 02:43.37 |
Twingy |
CISD does
alot of neat stuff with comms |
| 02:44.48 |
``Erik |
I kinda sorta
miss industry treatment... I mean, free coffee and tea are kinda
minimal things... free popcorn, soda, and lunches are out there...
total flex time, ... |
| 02:45.49 |
Twingy |
I like the
job security until I can start my own company |
| 02:45.49 |
``Erik |
no hassle
telecommute, ... |
| 02:46.02 |
``Erik |
yeah, that's
kinda the big thing that has kept me here, heh |
| 02:46.08 |
Twingy |
plus some of
the stuff I'm working with costs more than my house |
| 02:47.03 |
Twingy |
before you
leave, I'd highly recommend finding a position that is < 50%
mission funded |
| 02:47.16 |
Twingy |
that actually
makes a huge difference |
| 02:47.41 |
Twingy |
< 50%
mission typically means 6.0 and 6.1 funding plus independent
research |
| 02:48.21 |
Twingy |
Maloeran, for
the umpteenth million time, sucky management |
| 02:48.48 |
``Erik |
*nod* in
industry, the place would've gotten a serious gutting and had most
if not all mgmt replaced |
| 02:49.03 |
Twingy |
you got back
10 years and where I was / where erik currently is was a hot
spot |
| 02:49.18 |
Maloeran |
By the way
Justin, when I said to Mark you suggested to look into engineering,
architecture and medical applications for the raytracer... He
suggested to sit down us three and talk about it. I don't think
you'll be interested but I'm forwarding the message |
| 02:49.22 |
``Erik |
5,
even |
| 02:50.08 |
Twingy |
Maloeran, let
me sleep on it |
| 02:50.12 |
Maloeran |
Sure |
| 02:50.26 |
Twingy |
I started
running again, got the juices flowing |
| 02:51.00 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, sounds
good. I'm really getting lazy lately, I have so few needs for
locomotion |
| 02:51.17 |
Twingy |
I'll run
after work for the next couple of months |
| 02:51.44 |
Twingy |
my brain
spews out clever ideas when running |
| 02:52.32 |
Maloeran |
Neat. It
doesn't happen to me when running, it happens when coming back to
idle on the sofa for 10 minutes, exhausted |
| 02:52.47 |
Twingy |
ah, that's
when stomach kicks in and wants 10lbs of pasta |
| 02:52.54 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, that
too |
| 02:53.10 |
Twingy |
mmm
triptophan |
| 02:53.29 |
Twingy |
the sleepy
happy make you feel good chemical |
| 02:54.01 |
Twingy |
got 15k rpm
disks in it? |
| 02:54.25 |
Maloeran |
Eheh quite
not, it's only geared towards computations |
| 02:55.41 |
Twingy |
bet they'd
increase compile speed by 10-20% |
| 02:55.56 |
Twingy |
Maloeran,
setup a ram disk |
| 02:55.59 |
Twingy |
compile on
that |
| 02:56.24 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I'm
more looking forward to testing raytracing |
| 02:57.02 |
Twingy |
I've probly
spent $800 on r/c stuff in the last 2 months |
| 02:57.34 |
Maloeran |
r/c? |
| 02:58.34 |
Twingy |
radio
control |
| 02:58.50 |
Twingy |
haven even
started dumping money on the electronics for the rocket
yet |
| 02:58.57 |
Twingy |
but I got the
shopping list ready |
| 02:59.56 |
Maloeran |
Ah. I spent
4000USD on that box, but I don't do that too often |
| 03:01.03 |
``Erik |
dayamn |
| 03:01.42 |
``Erik |
<-- spent
like $700 on his laptop, like $400 on his last x86 |
| 03:01.50 |
Twingy |
I figure the
gyros, accelerometers, gps, and modem alone will cost me
$150 |
| 03:02.01 |
``Erik |
I'm, like,
moving towards kermit behavior, I guess :D |
| 03:02.04 |
Maloeran |
And how much
on that car, Erik? :) |
| 03:02.11 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 03:02.15 |
``Erik |
a bit more
than 4k |
| 03:02.22 |
Twingy |
how many
gigglehurts is it |
| 03:02.30 |
``Erik |
well |
| 03:02.44 |
``Erik |
the last one
has some giggles, and then some hurts... not at the same time,
though |
| 03:02.49 |
``Erik |
had |
| 03:02.59 |
Maloeran |
8 * 1.6ghz of
the latest Intel Xeon chip, improved server-grade Core
2 |
| 03:03.03 |
``Erik |
so far,t his
one is just giggles, no hurts yet, hopefully won't get there
:) |
| 03:03.11 |
Twingy |
I don't think
I ever saw what happened to the last one |
| 03:03.23 |
``Erik |
other than
the sharp stabbing pain in my right buttcheek, where my wallet
sits |
| 03:03.40 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/ |
| 03:03.49 |
``Erik |
camera is
fucked up |
| 03:04.15 |
Maloeran |
Was it really
just some patch of grass? That's what you said at the time, doubts
remain.. |
| 03:04.21 |
Twingy |
you killed
the car |
| 03:04.33 |
``Erik |
the grass got
me sliding without control |
| 03:04.36 |
Twingy |
you hit a
patch of grass? |
| 03:04.39 |
``Erik |
two trees got
it rolling |
| 03:04.44 |
``Erik |
then slide
across the road upside down |
| 03:04.49 |
Twingy |
how do slide
out of control on a patch of grass? |
| 03:04.50 |
``Erik |
and hit an
embankment and two more trees |
| 03:04.59 |
Twingy |
were you
doing one of your crazy 0 - mach3 stunts? |
| 03:05.04 |
``Erik |
then came to
rest on the road on the passenger side |
| 03:05.07 |
Maloeran |
That's some
fearful grass.. It's the first step I find difficult to
imagine |
| 03:05.22 |
``Erik |
left curve
over a crest, got the right wheels in the grass in a
ditch... |
| 03:05.35 |
Twingy |
ok |
| 03:05.38 |
Twingy |
you were on a
road |
| 03:05.42 |
Twingy |
you started
accelerating |
| 03:05.48 |
Twingy |
then grass
came out of nowhere? |
| 03:05.58 |
Maloeran |
Were you
speeding or accelerating too fast?.. |
| 03:06.00 |
``Erik |
no, level
speed, and I was just running too wide |
| 03:06.13 |
``Erik |
and dicking
with my phone *cough* |
| 03:06.13 |
Twingy |
running too
wide? what's that mean |
| 03:06.35 |
``Erik |
uh, driving
too close to the shoulder? |
| 03:06.43 |
``Erik |
and not
turning in tight enough? |
| 03:06.44 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:07.03 |
Maloeran |
Ah, so
there's a cell phone factor involved *nods* |
| 03:07.03 |
``Erik |
<-- may
not have exactly been completely below the speed limit |
| 03:07.20 |
Twingy |
and, if you
don't mind me asking, how much did the insurance cover? |
| 03:07.40 |
``Erik |
quite a
bit |
| 03:07.45 |
Twingy |
all of
it? |
| 03:07.54 |
``Erik |
um, less a
grand or two |
| 03:08.08 |
Twingy |
guess those
high insurance rates paid off |
| 03:08.26 |
``Erik |
heh,
yeah |
| 03:08.28 |
Twingy |
my insurance
is set to like bottom of the barrel |
| 03:08.35 |
Twingy |
like
$121/mo |
| 03:08.39 |
Twingy |
for like $15k
coverage |
| 03:08.39 |
``Erik |
then I got a
letter saying my insurance was going up seventeen point something
% |
| 03:08.57 |
Twingy |
so they are
going to get their money back from insurance |
| 03:08.58 |
``Erik |
and got the
fee, went DOWN a fair bit |
| 03:09.34 |
``Erik |
<-- was
paying ~169/mo, now paying 135/mo for jacked up %'s on a sports car
with a total and two tickets... |
| 03:09.39 |
Twingy |
did you get
any money for the scrap? |
| 03:09.42 |
``Erik |
no |
| 03:09.48 |
Twingy |
how
come? |
| 03:09.56 |
``Erik |
they own it
when they pay it off |
| 03:10.01 |
Twingy |
ah |
| 03:10.09 |
``Erik |
to get my
insurance check, I handed over keys and signed the title
over |
| 03:10.27 |
Twingy |
I woulda took
a few parts |
| 03:10.30 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, keys
were a nice symbolic gesture |
| 03:10.34 |
``Erik |
I have a few
parts in my basement |
| 03:10.37 |
``Erik |
and one of
the keys |
| 03:10.57 |
Twingy |
in case you
want to break into the pile of scrap iron |
| 03:11.02 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, I took the bmw emblem, not
the fucking m3 emblem :/ |
| 03:11.41 |
``Erik |
*shrug* I
kinda miss the blue |
| 03:12.20 |
``Erik |
but the one I
have now is less conspicuous and a little sportier (shortthrow
shifter, aluminum pedals (GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY CAR, TWINGY),
dvd nav, ...) |
| 03:12.37 |
``Erik |
um, miguel in
wmrd bought a laguna seca m3 after seeing mine |
| 03:12.39 |
Twingy |
I got more
aluminum than I know what to do with |
| 03:12.47 |
``Erik |
he parks
behind 390 |
| 03:12.53 |
Twingy |
I'm very very
close to cutting the first prototype motor |
| 03:12.57 |
``Erik |
sweet |
| 03:13.14 |
Twingy |
I almost have
the jig finished cutting from MDF |
| 03:13.16 |
``Erik |
I'm eager to
see a sketch or model or even description of what makes it special
:) |
| 03:13.43 |
Twingy |
what makes it
special is it's KISS simplicity |
| 03:13.43 |
``Erik |
and if ya
want a pencil jockey to crunch formulas or numbers, lemme know
:D |
| 03:14.16 |
Twingy |
one of those
why didn't I think of that deals |
| 03:14.56 |
``Erik |
<-- thinks
he gets more of a kick out of the theoretical side and crunching
data than the machining |
| 03:15.14 |
``Erik |
though test
burns are cool... |
| 03:16.06 |
Twingy |
I'm actually
looking forward to the first round of tests |
| 03:16.18 |
Twingy |
this will be
new territory for me |
| 03:16.27 |
``Erik |
where ya
gonna light things up at? sandy hook? or the school? |
| 03:16.36 |
Twingy |
probly my
garage at first |
| 03:16.56 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 03:17.09 |
Twingy |
it can't
explode, so there's no real danger |
| 03:17.09 |
``Erik |
got an ABC
fire extinguisher? |
| 03:17.15 |
Twingy |
I got
2 |
| 03:17.29 |
``Erik |
okie, make
sure one is out in the garage when ya kick it off :) |
| 03:18.10 |
``Erik |
my kitche one
dropped below the 'green' range, so I used it out on my
deck |
| 03:18.14 |
``Erik |
that's kinda
fun |
| 03:18.22 |
``Erik |
but the
yellow powder gets freakin' everywhere |
| 03:18.39 |
Twingy |
then you
locked yourself outside and had to break a window to get
in? |
| 03:18.43 |
``Erik |
heh,
nah |
| 03:18.47 |
Twingy |
:) |
| 03:19.01 |
Maloeran |
Nice Erik,
that reveals an aspect of your cooking talents :) |
| 03:19.02 |
``Erik |
my finger
isn't stiched on right now, I can jump down to the
ground |
| 03:19.26 |
``Erik |
what, that
I've never had a fire extinguisher grade fire in the last 4
yrs? |
| 03:20.20 |
Maloeran |
Well, that
you had to use your kitchen fire extinguisher down to below the
green range |
| 03:20.33 |
``Erik |
they are
pressured, they lose pressure over time |
| 03:20.42 |
Maloeran |
Oh. |
| 03:20.45 |
``Erik |
and the first
time you use one, it drops below green |
| 03:21.10 |
``Erik |
<-- has
never had an uncontrolled fire :) |
| 03:21.32 |
Twingy |
I've only had
explosions |
| 03:21.57 |
``Erik |
yeah, but
half the time, you cook rocket fuel in your kitchen :D |
| 03:22.34 |
Twingy |
I still don't
know what I'm going to do with all that potassium nitrate, I will
probably never make KNDX propellant again |
| 03:22.52 |
Twingy |
might just
throw it in the yard for fertilizer |
| 03:22.54 |
``Erik |
make a garden
box in your back yard |
| 03:22.58 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 03:23.20 |
Twingy |
I am gonna
get a tiller this summer and fix my yard |
| 03:23.27 |
``Erik |
in missouri,
I had two 4x8' boxes... half of one was all green onions...
whenever I made an omelete, I'd go out, pull a couple, wash 'em and
slice 'em up |
| 03:23.28 |
Twingy |
I've got the
worst fucking soil |
| 03:23.30 |
``Erik |
good
stuff |
| 03:23.35 |
``Erik |
hey, at least
you HAVE soil |
| 03:23.39 |
``Erik |
hafl my back
yard is clay |
| 03:24.20 |
Twingy |
mine takes
half an hour to dig a foot |
| 03:24.20 |
``Erik |
the other
half is stone and broken concrete |
| 03:24.20 |
Twingy |
like a
fucking steam roller went over it |
| 03:24.21 |
Twingy |
pisses me
off |
| 03:24.22 |
``Erik |
development
housing soil :( |
| 03:24.41 |
Twingy |
after I till
it I'll throw down sod |
| 03:24.43 |
``Erik |
I took my
pickaxe to break up the clay some so the grass could grow
through |
| 03:24.49 |
Twingy |
do a
sprinkler system first |
| 03:24.52 |
``Erik |
almost every
swing was into stone with sparks flying |
| 03:25.05 |
Twingy |
then lay down
a few hundred square feet of brick |
| 03:25.48 |
``Erik |
my neighbors
put down brick under their deck, took the dude a fair amount of
time, said it was a LOT harder than he figured |
| 03:26.00 |
Twingy |
he was
probably doing it wrong |
| 03:26.11 |
Twingy |
I figure I'll
bang it out in a few weekends |
| 03:26.25 |
``Erik |
I d'no,
looked fairly stadnard to me... dug it up, put down the gravel,
then started packing bricks |
| 03:26.38 |
Twingy |
didn't put
sand down? |
| 03:26.45 |
``Erik |
I don't
know |
| 03:26.51 |
``Erik |
I didn't pay
TOO much attention... :) |
| 03:26.55 |
Twingy |
gotta put
down black tarp, then sand |
| 03:27.02 |
Twingy |
keeps the
weeds out |
| 03:27.16 |
``Erik |
this is
snugged on the north side of the house |
| 03:27.19 |
``Erik |
grass won't
grow, just moss |
| 03:27.36 |
``Erik |
so even if he
did forget the black plastic, it wouldn't be the end of the
world |
| 03:27.45 |
Twingy |
I'm gonna use
big stone bricks |
| 03:28.12 |
``Erik |
<-- might
try something like that over the summer |
| 03:28.50 |
``Erik |
I think I
want to redo my entry :/ |
| 04:00.25 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:02.30 |
IriX64 |
say can
rtedge be used from the gui? |
| 04:07.59 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/367136
<<< === it can but what am i doing wrong here? |
| 04:14.36 |
IriX64 |
maybe not
bldg391 faills too on this command rtedge all |
| 04:18.33 |
brlcad |
IriX64: it's
like rt, just type rtedge |
| 04:18.48 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 04:18.52 |
brlcad |
an argument
of havoc tells it to open a geometry file named "havoc", which does
not exist |
| 04:19.13 |
IriX64 |
explained
thank you. |
| 04:19.28 |
brlcad |
if you run
rtedge on the unix command line, you have to specify the file and
geometry |
| 04:19.45 |
IriX64 |
never tried
that. |
| 04:19.45 |
brlcad |
on the mged
command line, just e the object (or select it in the geometry
browser), then run rtedge |
| 04:19.58 |
Maloeran |
Anyone knows
what the Linux "migration" process is? I can't find any information
on google besides being told how to migrate from windows to
Linux |
| 04:20.00 |
IriX64 |
got it
thanks. |
| 04:20.05 |
brlcad |
e or draw or
whatever you use :) |
| 04:20.16 |
IriX64 |
heh
thanks. |
| 04:20.32 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: I
think Linux migrates south for the winter around
October |
| 04:21.08 |
IriX64 |
heh that's
geese ;) |
| 04:21.26 |
brlcad |
http://www.falklandsconservation.com/penguins/pengmig.html |
| 04:21.39 |
brlcad |
they even
draw you pretty pictures ;) |
| 04:23.21 |
Maloeran |
All right,
I'll be satified with answers on penguins and Linux OS migration
:) |
| 04:24.05 |
IriX64 |
so now i'm a
penguin ;) |
| 04:24.42 |
Maloeran |
I'm used to
know what every process running is, but that's a new one in the
default Gentoo scripts. There's one assigned to every core, I guess
it's for some kind of process/thread migration |
| 04:26.05 |
IriX64 |
mct=master
control thread. |
| 04:27.09 |
IriX64 |
watch the
default stack sizes though :) |
| 04:30.11 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
what exactly are you asking? from what it sounds, seems like
gentoo is offering you options on what processor affinity settings
you want? |
| 04:31.34 |
brlcad |
or how to
actually do full-blown process migration between cpus in a cluster
ala mosix or what? |
| 04:32.01 |
Maloeran |
8 processes
named "migration" are launched by the gentoo boot scripts. They
have no man pages, no documentation, and google can't tell
much |
| 04:32.17 |
brlcad |
ahhhh |
| 04:32.32 |
brlcad |
i totally
read what you wrote differently :) |
| 04:32.39 |
Maloeran |
I realized
:) |
| 04:32.52 |
Maloeran |
The page
about penguins is still interesting though |
| 04:33.02 |
brlcad |
heh, that was
in jest, but even afterwards ;) |
| 04:35.01 |
brlcad |
wow, a search
turns up some work mike muuss did years ago on a migration
daemon |
| 04:35.04 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/88bump-pit/bump.html |
| 04:35.17 |
brlcad |
totally
unrelated, but quite ironic |
| 04:35.31 |
brlcad |
well, at
least probably unrelated .. |
| 04:36.28 |
Maloeran |
Curious ideas
on file system migration |
| 04:37.25 |
brlcad |
mm..
transparent file migration |
| 04:38.02 |
brlcad |
a holy grail
that we still don't have, a transparent global shared network file
store |
| 04:38.09 |
Maloeran |
IriX64,
typical master/slaves design, my raytracer works like that ; both
for threads and fpr network processing |
| 04:38.27 |
IriX64 |
with someone
in charge? |
| 04:38.38 |
IriX64 |
rt shelling
it out? |
| 04:38.54 |
Maloeran |
Indeed
brlcad, yet it doesn't seem so hard to implement |
| 04:39.51 |
Maloeran |
Except for
files that wouldn't fit on one single physical device and would
have to be broken into pieces by the driver, that's more
messy |
| 04:40.40 |
brlcad |
I know of
several projects that do it, and work well |
| 04:40.56 |
brlcad |
it's more the
practical issues of getting OS
standardization/cooperation |
| 04:41.43 |
brlcad |
google's
probably in the best position to get that going actually, with the
mass file stores, using machines across the internet and pseudo
shared drives |
| 04:42.02 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: see
which package the file belongs to, might give a lead |
| 04:42.09 |
brlcad |
epm -qf
`whereis migration` |
| 04:42.31 |
brlcad |
or locate or
whatever to actual file |
| 04:43.23 |
brlcad |
qpkg should
do the trick too |
| 04:47.54 |
Maloeran |
Yes,
apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm
not |
| 04:48.02 |
Maloeran |
Oops,
nevermind |
| 04:52.43 |
IriX64 |
``Erik how
bigs *your fbsd BRL-CAD tar.gz? ;) |
| 04:52.50 |
Maloeran |
I never
bothered to really learn the client, the first irc client I found
on Linux many years ago |
| 04:53.22 |
IriX64 |
my first on
unix was good olle irc |
| 04:53.33 |
IriX64 |
ircii |
| 04:53.41 |
louipc |
oh
yeah |
| 04:54.33 |
brlcad |
irssi is the
path to enlightenment |
| 04:55.00 |
IriX64 |
just don't
type control c on a system like mine. :) |
| 04:57.11 |
IriX64 |
louipc i
guess standard 60Hz what think you? |
| 04:57.32 |
louipc |
I've never
owned an LCD |
| 04:57.52 |
louipc |
my system is
6yrs old eh |
| 04:57.56 |
IriX64 |
haven't got a
calculator eh? ;) |
| 04:58.16 |
louipc |
oh? how do I
do it? |
| 04:58.28 |
IriX64 |
you tell
me. |
| 04:58.34 |
louipc |
I've no
clue |
| 04:58.54 |
louipc |
LCDs can't be
faster than CRTs though can they? |
| 05:00.12 |
IriX64 |
lcds operate
on a charged pixel basis, crt, actually provide a beam to lite an
entire row of pixels, lcds try to get each
individually. |
| 05:00.31 |
Maloeran |
I think they
have become close to equivalent in quality, hence why I tried my
first LCD |
| 05:01.12 |
IriX64 |
i like to
open my system up, ergo i prolly will never own a laptop or
notebook. |
| 05:01.14 |
louipc |
I thought it
was just price... or LCDs might be cheaper now |
| 05:01.42 |
louipc |
IriX64: why
not open up the notebook? |
| 05:01.53 |
IriX64 |
and do what
exactly? |
| 05:01.58 |
louipc |
tinker |
| 05:02.19 |
IriX64 |
one look
convinces they should not be tinkered with. |
| 05:03.01 |
Maloeran |
LCDs still
seem to have problems with the black "color", it's not quite as
black as my Viewsonic CRT |
| 05:03.35 |
IriX64 |
its the
screen mask your seeing. |
| 05:04.59 |
louipc |
lol |
| 05:05.22 |
Maloeran |
Print your
own, 5 lines of code ;) |
| 05:10.12 |
brlcad |
LCDs have
exceptionally low "refresh rates" compared to CRTs and are usually
in the 20-100Hz range, 60Hz is pretty common |
| 05:10.44 |
brlcad |
but since
they are "charged" as IriX64 noted, it doesn't mean nearly the
same |
| 05:11.30 |
brlcad |
there's
generally no "scanline flickering" for example, as there is no
scanline beam, the image just has a burn in/out time |
| 05:12.37 |
brlcad |
one of the
things that can make gaming painful on crappy LCDs (and even
high-end ones in general) because of image motion and high response
times |
| 05:13.10 |
brlcad |
not as much
of a problem these days, most LCDs are "good enough" at the 60 Hz
range |
| 05:18.14 |
Maloeran |
This 5ms
response time would be equivalent to 200hz, that's quite
high |
| 05:29.04 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran: why
don't i just use 'g' :) |
| 05:50.08 |
Maloeran |
Hum. 60
million rays per second, 100fps in 800x600 |
| 05:50.55 |
IriX64 |
just which
laptop model is that ? ;) |
| 05:51.44 |
Maloeran |
A big heavy
and noisy laptop, it's not comfortable at all sitting on my lap
:) |
| 05:51.53 |
IriX64 |
100fps? I get
2.8-12.0 depending. |
| 05:52.40 |
Maloeran |
This is not
the raytracer you see in BRL-CAD, I'm talking about rendering 100
full frames of first-hit per second |
| 05:53.08 |
IriX64 |
was gonna
comment about penguins :) |
| 05:56.02 |
brlcad |
heh, http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7848/image001ac0.jpg |
| 05:56.15 |
IriX64 |
first write
loop unrolling and jump optimizations amongst other things into
your compiler then recompile. |
| 05:57.20 |
IriX64 |
thought that
was spelled doughnuts brlcad. |
| 06:01.23 |
IriX64 |
anybody with
g-jack.exe, could you give me an approximate byte size? |
| 06:03.31 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
you'll find a lot of people with .exe files here... |
| 06:04.50 |
IriX64 |
equivelent
will do. |
| 06:08.02 |
IriX64 |
louipc will
fbsd still run an exe file? |
| 06:18.50 |
brlcad |
tofu:~
morrison$ ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/g-jack |
| 06:18.51 |
brlcad |
-rwxr-xr-x
1 root wheel 52860 Aug 11 2006
/usr/brlcad/bin/g-jack |
| 06:18.53 |
brlcad |
58k |
| 06:19.01 |
brlcad |
er
52 |
| 06:19.06 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/
<==== looksee |
| 06:19.09 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 06:22.02 |
brlcad |
can't imagine
what that number would be useful for, comparing apples and
kiwis |
| 06:24.28 |
IriX64 |
I'm sorta
bloated :) |
| 06:26.34 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 07:02.59 |
brlcad |
you're
probably compiled static, it's not the same comparison |
| 07:21.00 |
IriX64 |
trew
:) |
| 08:16.14 |
IriX64 |
my "space" eh
microsoft? reeks of bait, but what you gonna do? :) |
| 09:25.50 |
IriX64 |
btw that pix
of Mr. Brlcad came from Aberdeeen city records, when i stumbled on
BRL-CAD I did a little research. |
| 10:39.38 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 12:45.21 |
*** join/#brlcad cad86
(n=550c4101@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:00.26 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/wdb.h: remove the conditional
compilation of the mk_brep function |
| 15:04.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix several bugs in the
implementation of RT_MemoryArchive. remove use of
dynamic_cast. |
| 15:15.05 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: provide function table
stubs for good behavior when openNURBS is not built |
| 15:18.51 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (brep.cpp Makefile.am): provide a
C stub of mk_brep when openNURBS is not built. prevent NULL breps
to mk_brep |
| 15:21.04 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep_stub.c: provide a C stub of
mk_brep when openNURBS is not built. |
| 15:26.00 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 15:41.09 |
Maloeran |
Anyone could
use an user on a 8 cores box? Though I'm sure you guys got access
to 1024 processors on a daily basis :) |
| 15:57.42 |
``Erik |
the biggies
are a hassle, but i have three 8 core opterons at my disposal...
heh :D |
| 15:58.08 |
``Erik |
so unless
you're loading something other than linux... O:-) |
| 15:59.18 |
``Erik |
http://www.cuisinenet.com/digest/breakfast/map_world.shtml |
| 16:01.07 |
Maloeran |
Ahah,
neat |
| 16:03.46 |
``Erik |
heh, like the
old LISA, yes |
| 16:03.53 |
``Erik |
oriented the
way a paper would be |
| 16:04.15 |
``Erik |
which is why
i rail on having 'start bars' or 'docks' or whatever at the bottom
instead of the side :D |
| 16:05.05 |
Maloeran |
Good point
:) |
| 16:19.43 |
clock_ |
Maloeran:
what about 87 degrees? |
| 16:42.17 |
Maloeran |
That could be
amusing too |
| 17:51.48 |
``Erik |
87 degrees?
is that like a boy band? |
| 18:21.15 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h
src/librt/nmg_bool.c): add flag to silence nmg boolean
eval |
| 18:44.37 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-214.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:11.34 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: I
believe you can, but there's an issue with that |
| 19:12.16 |
brlcad |
the
underlying smooth anti-aliasing that X (and most graphical
interfaces) does for LCD displays takes advantage of the RGB
interleave |
| 19:13.15 |
brlcad |
you end up
with nasty aliasing effects if you simply tell X11/xorg to rotate
the display without updating the display system to do something
different for anti-aliasing |
| 20:13.30 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 20:49.05 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 21:12.40 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:19.14 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:24.33 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368141
<------ ``Erik I'm trying :) |
| 21:34.31 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368154
< --- this though happens every time i try to build BRL-CAD with
shared libs enabled and I *can't find it. |
| 21:35.01 |
IriX64 |
--disable-shared is a workaround
but... |
| 21:39.22 |
IriX64 |
louipc have
you tried? |
| 21:40.08 |
brlcad |
IriX64: try
installing libpng on your own |
| 21:40.35 |
IriX64 |
change dir to
libpng and compiule and link you mean. |
| 21:40.45 |
IriX64 |
compile
too |
| 21:41.02 |
IriX64 |
ill try
that. |
| 21:43.17 |
IriX64 |
an hour from
now, i'm going to let this run complete (or error out)
:) |
| 21:44.02 |
IriX64 |
could try it
on the backup tree but im leary of dinking around in
there. |
| 21:55.08 |
IriX64 |
ill try
configuring exactly the same way and will switch to
libpng. |
| 22:03.07 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368180
<--- brlcad doing it that way yields this output. |
| 22:18.28 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
that's not what i meant |
| 22:18.46 |
brlcad |
i meant go
get libpng, compile it and install it or find a cygwin package for
it |
| 22:18.49 |
IriX64 |
hrmm? |
| 22:19.21 |
IriX64 |
to get by it
you mean, ill just run with --disable-shared but ty. |
| 22:19.36 |
brlcad |
but your
second error pastebin is actually considerably more
informative |
| 22:19.48 |
brlcad |
that shows
the real error |
| 22:20.01 |
IriX64 |
hope it
helps. |
| 22:20.19 |
brlcad |
well, it
looks like something goofed in src/other/libz |
| 22:20.31 |
brlcad |
*** Warning:
This system can not link to static lib archive
../../../src/other/l |
| 22:20.32 |
brlcad |
ibz/libz.la. |
| 22:20.37 |
IriX64 |
dunno, i'm
not that good :) |
| 22:20.51 |
brlcad |
there should
also be a shared one in there |
| 22:21.13 |
IriX64 |
ty ill
check. |
| 22:21.14 |
brlcad |
what does
this report: ls -la src/other/libz/.libs/libz* |
| 22:22.02 |
IriX64 |
no such file
or directory. |
| 22:22.27 |
IriX64 |
just a
sec. |
| 22:23.34 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368213 |
| 22:23.53 |
IriX64 |
gotta run an
errand brbr well in a few minutes. |
| 22:26.30 |
Maloeran |
Can anyone
confirm my assumption that laptops are as vulnerable to low
temperatures as desktops, hence one shouldn't boot one which stayed
a hour at -10C? |
| 22:29.07 |
dtidrow_work |
I would say
yes, though that's mainly for the hard drive |
| 22:29.25 |
dtidrow_work |
I imagine
that the bearings might get rather sticky at those
temps |
| 22:30.17 |
``Erik |
laptop hdd's
(and fans) tend to be smaller with smaller tolerances, though, I'd
imagine that'd make them more susceptable to heat contraction and
expansion, no? |
| 22:30.27 |
``Erik |
<--
obviously has no clue what he's talking about :D |
| 22:30.32 |
``Erik |
later, dudes,
headin' home |
| 22:30.35 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
that's rather incorrect.. |
| 22:30.41 |
brlcad |
to only have
the .a |
| 22:31.11 |
brlcad |
cd
src/other/libz and try a make .. see if it links a libz.so or .dll
or whatever it does under cygwin |
| 22:31.52 |
brlcad |
if it still
doesn't make it, do a make clean there, then make again .. see if
there's any message in the output as to why a shared library isn't
built |
| 22:36.47 |
IriX64 |
did a make
clean there before i started but ill check. |
| 22:38.02 |
IriX64 |
doing libz
will give you the whole thing. |
| 22:39.09 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368227 |
| 22:41.22 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran a
cup of warm broth would do wonders for that chilly laptop
:) |
| 22:47.09 |
IriX64 |
btw it does
.so under cygwin. |
| 22:51.07 |
brlcad |
IriX64: ls
-la .libs/libz* |
| 22:53.13 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368242 |
| 22:55.19 |
IriX64 |
mmm a
teddy...err wait thats toddy ;) |
| 22:55.27 |
brlcad |
huh |
| 22:55.31 |
brlcad |
there it
built it |
| 22:55.48 |
brlcad |
some sort of
wierd timing |
| 22:56.01 |
brlcad |
cd ../../..
&& make |
| 22:56.14 |
brlcad |
libpng should
do better this time |
| 22:57.49 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368245 |
| 22:59.41 |
brlcad |
cd
src/other/libpng && make clean && cd ../../..
&& make |
| 23:02.49 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368253 |
| 23:04.41 |
brlcad |
hrm, that's
rather useless .. ld just fails with no error |
| 23:04.53 |
IriX64 |
agreed |
| 23:05.42 |
IriX64 |
its not
something i did i think because it did it very first build before i
touched anything. |
| 23:06.23 |
brlcad |
i don't think
it's anything you've done |
| 23:06.35 |
brlcad |
i think it's
an environment/ld/cygwin issue |
| 23:06.51 |
brlcad |
would have to
see if there's an ld flag or something to get more verbose
output |
| 23:07.00 |
brlcad |
maybe remove
the --silent libtool flag |
| 23:07.47 |
brlcad |
try adding
./configure --enable-build-progress |
| 23:07.57 |
IriX64 |
part of this
is my fault, that darn error should be more informative. let me try
something. |
| 23:08.01 |
brlcad |
don't
remember if that was added before 7.8.4 or after |
| 23:08.17 |
brlcad |
grep
bc_build_progress configure.ac |
| 23:08.22 |
brlcad |
it should
return a line or two |
| 23:08.56 |
brlcad |
if it does,
rerun configure with --enable-build-progress and see if libpng's
failure is more informative |
| 23:11.45 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368263 |
| 23:12.44 |
brlcad |
heh, i don't
need to see it |
| 23:12.50 |
brlcad |
just "if it
does" .... |
| 23:13.04 |
IriX64 |
reconfiguring, doin a clean
first. |
| 23:16.48 |
IriX64 |
could it be
that version number on the .so? version mismatch or something, mmm
but that doesn't explaiun the undefs. |
| 23:21.17 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368273 |
| 23:21.22 |
IriX64 |
bbiab. |
| 23:35.23 |
brlcad |
still no
error message -- looks like an ld bug to me, but that's not
something I can debug easily without sitting at a console and
testinging and checking lots of things |
| 23:37.34 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: I
agree, its got to be this .so.2.24 thing, not being handles
properly, tried an eggdrop compile and i have no problem with .so
modules. |
| 23:38.21 |
IriX64 |
many thanks
(and apologies to pastebin.ca for cluttering them up ) |
| 00:04.36 |
``Erik |
IriX64 ...
.exe files are PF executables, fbsd uses ELF or QMAGIC
executables... there's no way it can run.. |
| 00:05.49 |
IriX64 |
im from
missourrii , show me. |
| 00:06.00 |
``Erik |
... go hop on
a linux or freebsd box |
| 00:06.04 |
``Erik |
and try to
run a windows executable. |
| 00:06.07 |
``Erik |
without using
an emulator. |
| 00:06.12 |
``Erik |
then you'll
be shown |
| 00:06.41 |
IriX64 |
$
uptime |
| 00:06.41 |
IriX64 |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.41 |
IriX64 |
IriX64@FthrNtr ~/brlcad-7.8.4 |
| 00:06.41 |
IriX64 |
$ |
| 00:06.51 |
IriX64 |
this is on a
windows machine. |
| 00:07.29 |
IriX64 |
crap should
have pastebinned, sorry. :( |
| 00:07.32 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.35 |
``Erik |
not a windows
machine |
| 00:07.36 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 00:08.26 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.33 |
``Erik |
also not a
windows machine... :D |
| 00:08.39 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 00:08.57 |
``Erik |
you can tell
by the uptime... O:-) |
| 00:09.07 |
IriX64 |
you can tell
mine by the short time its been up. :) |
| 00:09.13 |
Maloeran |
Tsk, such
high uptimes are a sign that you don't overclock
enough! |
| 00:09.20 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 00:10.30 |
``Erik |
heh, these
are machines meant for reliability... |
| 00:11.02 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.17 |
Maloeran |
Oops |
| 00:11.22 |
Maloeran |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.27 |
``Erik |
hearing an
old woman bark "who do I have to gum to get a refill?" is
disturbing |
| 00:12.29 |
``Erik |
(was on
simpsons... mal, urban dictionary for 'gumjob' ... O:-)
) |
| 00:12.30 |
Maloeran |
I think I
don't want to look up other meanings of the verb "to gum" that I'm
not familiar with |
| 00:12.51 |
``Erik |
perhaps a
wise move |
| 00:13.09 |
IriX64 |
juciy fruit?
:) |
| 00:13.36 |
IriX64 |
thats chewing
gum |
| 00:14.13 |
``Erik |
doublemint,
yo, hook me up with some hot twins ;) |
| 00:14.27 |
IriX64 |
heh sen
sen |
| 00:17.32 |
IriX64 |
copy
pretty.exe pretty.a pretty.a <---- still runs |
| 00:18.02 |
``Erik |
... on
windows, yes. |
| 00:18.06 |
``Erik |
because it's
still a PF binary... |
| 00:18.10 |
``Erik |
it is NOT an
elf binary |
| 00:18.26 |
``Erik |
here, let me
send you an ELF binary, lets see if you can run it... |
| 00:18.41 |
IriX64 |
was
producedto be no matter what its called. |
| 00:19.11 |
IriX64 |
quite
right |
| 00:19.30 |
IriX64 |
rt11 rawks
``Erik. :) |
| 00:19.39 |
IriX64 |
RT11 get it
right. |
| 00:20.09 |
``Erik |
aaaaand you
know this from experience? no? thought so :D |
| 00:21.08 |
IriX64 |
Why can't i
produce an ELF binary and call it whatever i want? |
| 00:21.15 |
Maloeran |
You can't
produce ELF binaries on windows. Windows uses that MZ
thing |
| 00:21.41 |
IriX64 |
gcc cannot
produce elf binaries? since when |
| 00:21.42 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 00:21.57 |
Maloeran |
gcc produces
binaries that are appropriate for your platform, unless you
cross-compile |
| 00:22.06 |
``Erik |
uh, if you
install a normal gcc on windows, it cannot produce elf
binaries |
| 00:22.08 |
Maloeran |
And when you
cross-compile, you can't execute the binaries meant for the target
platform |
| 00:22.41 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, just
install Linux and play around with it |
| 00:23.05 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368340 |
| 00:23.33 |
``Erik |
... yes...
and? |
| 00:23.47 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran:
illegal instruction trap, handalable without bailing? |
| 00:24.28 |
Maloeran |
You can catch
the SIGILL signal, yes |
| 00:24.53 |
Maloeran |
SIGKILL and
SIGSTOP are the only two you can't catch |
| 00:24.57 |
IriX64 |
and try to
find a cygwin entry point ie your MZ thing |
| 00:25.33 |
IriX64 |
exe is huge
but 200gig drive here *shrug* |
| 00:26.07 |
Maloeran |
I really
recommend to repartition and install Linux, you'll get some good
and more varied experience |
| 00:26.36 |
IriX64 |
had linux on
vmware. |
| 00:26.43 |
Maloeran |
Real Linux
;) |
| 00:26.59 |
IriX64 |
its vmware
thats not real ;) |
| 00:27.35 |
``Erik |
(or fbsd, or
nbsd, or obsd, or dragonfly, or minix, or zetaos, or
...) |
| 00:27.59 |
``Erik |
solaris-x86,
... |
| 00:28.18 |
Maloeran |
He'll suffer
less with Linux |
| 00:28.29 |
``Erik |
I'd
disagree |
| 00:28.37 |
``Erik |
YOU suffer
less with linux because you're familiar with linux |
| 00:28.44 |
``Erik |
just like
irix suffers less with windows right now |
| 00:28.59 |
``Erik |
man, that
sentence sounded dirty, irix64 needs a new nick o.O |
| 00:29.20 |
Maloeran |
I think there
are Linux distributions far friendlier than FreeBSD... |
| 00:29.33 |
Maloeran |
And he's not
quite ready for Gentoo or Linux from scratch :) |
| 00:29.43 |
``Erik |
there're bsd
distributions far friendlier than fbsd, too |
| 00:29.46 |
``Erik |
like
pcbsd |
| 00:29.56 |
Maloeran |
Ah, never
heard of it |
| 00:30.15 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/368347
<--this is the only piece of code ive ever written.
:P |
| 00:31.12 |
``Erik |
wow, there is
so much wrong with that |
| 00:31.14 |
``Erik |
*boggle* |
| 00:31.18 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 00:31.36 |
Maloeran |
Well, at
least it's C and not Javascript or Basic |
| 00:31.54 |
``Erik |
it's sorta
C |
| 00:32.07 |
IriX64 |
C- i call
it. |
| 00:32.49 |
``Erik |
would that
even compile with the args messed up? heh |
| 00:33.02 |
Maloeran |
I think it
will compile with warnings |
| 00:33.19 |
Maloeran |
Well,
assuming you got a compiler with conio.h and kbhit() of
course |
| 00:33.35 |
``Erik |
those're lib
functions, not compiler things... |
| 00:33.50 |
brlcad |
reminds me of
an old dos program I wrote a really long time ago |
| 00:34.30 |
``Erik |
backward
args, poor logic path, magic numbers, no indentation, etc?
:D |
| 00:34.31 |
``Erik |
*duck* |
| 00:34.33 |
brlcad |
compiler
too.. they're both int-castable values and main is in the
compiler's realm |
| 00:39.26 |
Maloeran |
I never quite
understood that one |
| 00:39.46 |
``Erik |
*shrug*
probably just weren't in the sym map |
| 00:40.11 |
Maloeran |
It's a
low-level interrupt, can't get any closer to the
hardware |
| 00:40.37 |
``Erik |
dos may've
caught the interrupt, didn't recognize it, and did an iret without
pushing it |
| 00:40.37 |
Maloeran |
Eh no :),
IriX64's archaic code brings back memories, old stuff I never
figured out and still don't |
| 00:40.39 |
IriX64 |
kb
too |
| 00:41.00 |
IriX64 |
getvect
setvect how much fun is that. |
| 00:41.41 |
IriX64 |
btw ill have
you know pretty runs just fine. |
| 00:45.03 |
Maloeran |
So how's that
OS coming along, Erik? :) |
| 00:45.25 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!BFB9E7E9DA2BD02D!113&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=15&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum&_c02_owner=1 |
| 00:45.42 |
IriX64 |
i *wont do
*that again sheez |
| 00:46.45 |
``Erik |
haven't
touched it in a while, mal, too much other stuff to do
:( |
| 00:47.04 |
IriX64 |
``Erik you
write os? |
| 00:47.23 |
``Erik |
in the grand
scheme of things, that os is awfully low on the priority
list |
| 00:47.45 |
IriX64 |
personal
project then? |
| 00:47.57 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 00:48.12 |
``Erik |
both my own
os and most of my work with fbsd are personal projects |
| 00:48.30 |
IriX64 |
Based on or
is this a new idea? |
| 00:49.39 |
``Erik |
um, inspired
by old lispos, with some other equally ancient ideas like automatic
parallelism and distribution, stateful system coherency,
etc |
| 00:50.57 |
Maloeran |
An OS with
its own synchronisation mechanisms and interfaces geared up towards
cluster processing could be amusing |
| 00:52.40 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, you
seem to be motivated and have free time, you should pick up a C
book and burn a Linux CD |
| 00:52.59 |
``Erik |
or a bsd cd,
or a solaris cd, or a zeta cd, or a ... |
| 00:53.10 |
IriX64 |
if any body
cares, that Gesr thing is a paper tape reader/punch replacement for
an industrial computer. |
| 00:54.42 |
Maloeran |
Or a Linux
CD, and embark in a grandiose and wondrous adventure towards
knowledge, the infinity and beyond! |
| 00:55.38 |
IriX64 |
can't wait
till my spirit take flight. |
| 00:57.29 |
``Erik |
<-- also
stunted for learning basic as his first programming language
:D |
| 00:57.56 |
IriX64 |
fortran
here |
| 00:58.08 |
IriX64 |
WatIV |
| 00:58.14 |
``Erik |
obviously
not, irix. |
| 00:58.32 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 00:58.41 |
IriX64 |
WatIV is
obvious? |
| 00:58.53 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:01.05 |
Maloeran |
Ouch Erik,
Basic. I'm sorry, I didn't know... |
| 01:02.25 |
IriX64 |
need to tend
to life. l8r. |
| 01:02.41 |
Maloeran |
I have used C
and assembly rather exclusively, if you omit the attempts at
getting used to other languages |
| 01:16.49 |
louipc |
I recommend
archlinux :D |
| 01:17.51 |
louipc |
oh he left
:P |
| 01:18.46 |
Maloeran |
Ubuntu is
supposed to be very friendly though I heard some horror
stories |
| 01:19.23 |
Maloeran |
A friend had
an IDE controller or something that it didn't like somehow, and it
would destroy cdrom drives systematically |
| 01:19.28 |
louipc |
horror or
stories of discomfort? |
| 01:19.34 |
louipc |
that's
horror |
| 01:22.12 |
louipc |
I just found
it very uncomfortable |
| 01:23.50 |
``Erik |
maybe you put
the cd in the wrong place? |
| 01:24.25 |
louipc |
hah
hah |
| 01:28.00 |
Maloeran |
for cutting,
rather |
| 01:33.54 |
Twingy |
guess
what |
| 01:34.05 |
Twingy |
time to go
running |
| 02:52.24 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 05:51.50 |
*** join/#brlcad justin_
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 07:17.12 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, a
stupid question, but if I make changes to librt's nmg_* functions,
how can I test? :) |
| 07:17.42 |
Maloeran |
Also, may any
fix to have triangles face the proper pay prove useless with the
coming opennurbs updates? |
| 11:31.27 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:34.04 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:50.07 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 13:34.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: make sure we can restore
COPYING/INSTALL when automake decides to ignore our
umask |
| 13:56.13 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
easiest would probably be to take one of the converters, e.g. g-stl
or g-nmg and test |
| 13:57.34 |
brlcad |
and no, I
don't think it'd be useless.. opennurbs has a *long* way to go to
prove that it can replace nmg outright -- for now it's just going
to be a new primitive, replacing tessellations would be something
to try after that |
| 14:42.22 |
*** join/#brlcad cad59
(n=c128fb04@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:45.21 |
*** join/#brlcad cad59
(n=c128fb04@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:39.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: use common.h
to wrap brlcad_config.h for external apps |
| 16:06.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Begin implementation of
brep plot routine. start with coarse mesh from
openNURBS. |
| 16:52.18 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Begin implementation of
brep plot routine. actually use vlist to draw mesh. |
| 17:06.25 |
brlcad |
shibby |
| 17:23.26 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168049077.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:38.04 |
IriX64 |
http://www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 |
| 18:01.57 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: fill in ray origin and dir
on shoot. Set nmg 'silent' flag. dup path. |
| 19:32.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: common.h should
always be included before any system headers |
| 19:53.03 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, so
you admit I can produce ELF binaries on my toy windows systen ?
:P |
| 19:53.11 |
IriX64 |
system
too. |
| 19:54.37 |
``Erik |
if you were
to install a real ELF crosscompiler and knew how to use it,
sure |
| 19:54.46 |
``Erik |
... |
| 19:54.50 |
``Erik |
that's not an
elf binary |
| 19:54.59 |
``Erik |
do you have
"file" installed? it's a program that tells you about a specified
file |
| 19:55.02 |
IriX64 |
is now
:) |
| 19:55.18 |
``Erik |
it'll
identify binaries and what format they are |
| 19:55.48 |
``Erik |
$ file
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 19:55.51 |
``Erik |
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: ELF 64-bit LSB
executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked
(uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 19:55.56 |
IriX64 |
I have it.
should use it , yes? :) |
| 19:56.03 |
``Erik |
$ file
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 19:56.06 |
``Erik |
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: Mach-O executable
ppc |
| 19:56.41 |
``Erik |
you'll
probably see something about a windows PE executable |
| 19:56.50 |
Maloeran |
The extension
does not define what a file is, it's used by certain environments
to decide the default actions when for the files |
| 19:57.02 |
Maloeran |
when
interacting* with the files |
| 19:57.20 |
``Erik |
certain stpid
environments, good ones look at file magic *cough* |
| 19:57.48 |
Maloeran |
File magic is
far slower |
| 19:58.05 |
``Erik |
yes, .0001
seconds instead of .000001 seconds, ohs noes |
| 19:58.22 |
IriX64 |
$ file
mged.exe |
| 19:58.22 |
IriX64 |
mged.exe:
MS-DOS executable PE for MS Windows (console) Intel 80386
32-bit |
| 19:58.22 |
IriX64 |
IriX64@FthrNtr /usr/cygcad/bin |
| 19:58.46 |
Maloeran |
It's far
slower than that, really. There are WMs and dekstops which run file
for every file of a directory when you view it |
| 19:58.59 |
Maloeran |
And it crawls
terribly, opening every file and checking its format |
| 19:59.36 |
``Erik |
heh, nautilus
does that, I think, and caches results... it even extracts images
to provide thumbnails iirc *shrug* |
| 20:00.35 |
Maloeran |
rxvt is all
the gui I need anyhow :) |
| 20:01.17 |
Maloeran |
I used both
elelfm2 and gentoo for some time, I stopped using both when some
bugs ( in *both* ) made the apparent selection be different from
the real selection, causing me to delete files I did not want
to |
| 20:02.09 |
``Erik |
if you're too
lame to delete files from the command line, use mc, it sucks less
:D |
| 20:02.43 |
Maloeran |
Eh, I always
use the command line now, I finally got used to it |
| 20:10.22 |
IriX64 |
how do you
camman a line? :) |
| 20:10.26 |
IriX64 |
command
too |
| 20:10.43 |
Maloeran |
With a sharp
ruler |
| 20:10.57 |
IriX64 |
.me bows to
Maloeran :P |
| 20:11.03 |
IriX64 |
err |
| 20:13.28 |
IriX64 |
err Maloeran
ordered my ammunition confiscated. :) |
| 20:25.29 |
Maloeran |
Just install
some Unix, you'll learn quite a bit. Pick Linux or FreeBSD, it will
determine who of us two you can ask questions to |
| 20:25.50 |
IriX64 |
haaha I get
it. thanks. |
| 20:30.15 |
``Erik |
neat, adrt
gives radically wrong answers, I must be using it wrong |
| 20:31.34 |
Maloeran |
That might be
why it seems so slow |
| 20:31.46 |
``Erik |
http://paste.lisp.org/display/37285 |
| 20:32.24 |
Maloeran |
Cool |
| 20:32.44 |
``Erik |
'firing' in
the middle is origin -> direction |
| 20:32.58 |
``Erik |
librt is
first, then some adrt noise, then adrt results |
| 20:34.07 |
``Erik |
the massive
jitter on adrt's x/y is what concerns me at the moment, though the
distances on the r212 region are kinda concerning |
| 20:34.50 |
IriX64 |
``Erik? thats
an rt shot? admitting my ignorance here. |
| 20:34.59 |
``Erik |
sorta,
yes |
| 20:35.10 |
IriX64 |
how's it
done? |
| 20:35.10 |
``Erik |
it's a
partition biulding shot using two engines |
| 20:35.12 |
``Erik |
uhhhh |
| 20:35.15 |
``Erik |
software?
:D |
| 20:35.18 |
IriX64 |
heh
ty. |
| 20:35.25 |
``Erik |
if you want
to do a single ray by hand, check out "nirt" |
| 20:35.37 |
Maloeran |
I like these
numbers. I think my code can fit well with that kind of
accuracy |
| 20:35.47 |
IriX64 |
never played
with all the gadgets but i think ill experiment. |
| 20:36.06 |
``Erik |
hahaha, well,
it's inexcusable accuracy :D I'm either doing osmething wrong, or
tie is busted |
| 20:36.59 |
``Erik |
the z is all
correct, I think |
| 20:37.58 |
IriX64 |
get syntax
errors in fron of all the BC_ stuff in configure. |
| 20:38.03 |
``Erik |
but the 1.2%
deviation is ... wow |
| 20:38.03 |
IriX64 |
front
too. |
| 20:38.12 |
``Erik |
aclocal -I
./m4 |
| 20:38.18 |
``Erik |
or
./autogen.sh |
| 20:38.45 |
IriX64 |
./autogen.sh
works but you *should be able to run aclocal without
switches. |
| 20:39.13 |
IriX64 |
the stuff is
there but has syntax errors |
| 20:40.24 |
``Erik |
the early
autoconf'd version of brlcad didn't need that, talk to brlcad about
it *shrug* |
| 20:40.36 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 20:46.19 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.19 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.19 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.22 |
``Erik |
nice...
:( |
| 20:47.07 |
Maloeran |
That's the
source of the problem? |
| 20:47.15 |
``Erik |
I believe
so |
| 20:47.27 |
Maloeran |
It's surely
to avoid divides by zero |
| 20:47.34 |
``Erik |
since my ray
dir is defined as 0,0,1 |
| 20:47.53 |
``Erik |
it gets used
as TIE_PREC,TIE_PREC,1 |
| 20:49.17 |
``Erik |
0.008435 |
| 20:49.42 |
``Erik |
which
correlates |
| 20:49.55 |
Maloeran |
This is all
good stuff. The more inaccuraries you find there, the least worse
my code will seem |
| 20:50.00 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 20:52.29 |
``Erik |
it's visually
tolerable, but not geometric analysis tolerable... I think it'll
need to be fixed :/ |
| 20:55.19 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran
(n=maloeran@glvortex.net) |
| 20:55.27 |
Maloeran |
I hate
Ctrl+Alt+Backspace! |
| 20:56.30 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/369427
< -- a run of the behavious i described. |
| 20:56.40 |
IriX64 |
behaviour
too. |
| 20:57.51 |
Maloeran |
Who would
ever create a shortcut that kills X made of keys that one could
very well use in rapid succession or simultaneously |
| 20:59.15 |
``Erik |
alt control
delete? |
| 20:59.35 |
``Erik |
how is that
so easy to hit? O.o |
| 20:59.35 |
Maloeran |
At least that
does not kill windows |
| 20:59.47 |
Maloeran |
Ctrl+Alt+Backspace kills X
instantly! |
| 20:59.50 |
``Erik |
also; run irc
in screen, so'z it won't disconnect |
| 21:00.04 |
``Erik |
yes,
alt+ctrl+backspace is the OMFGKILLX!!~! |
| 21:00.57 |
``Erik |
ahhh, the
days of fullscreen game programming when sdl was flakey
:D |
| 21:01.04 |
Maloeran |
I frequently
type with the right hand, the left hand holds ctrl+alt to soon
switch desktop |
| 21:01.20 |
Maloeran |
I make a
typo, hit backspace, and boom. It happens about once every two
weeks |
| 21:01.36 |
``Erik |
hm, the
solution is simple: quit doing that. |
| 21:04.12 |
IriX64 |
errr or undo
it (duck) |
| 21:06.46 |
brlcad |
IriX64: there
are lots of things wrong with that |
| 21:06.53 |
brlcad |
in regards to
"15:37 * IriX64 wonders whats wrong with aclocal, autoheader,
autoconf, automake sequence" |
| 21:07.12 |
brlcad |
autoreconf
doesn't do just that either |
| 21:07.41 |
IriX64 |
but you
should be able to do that no? |
| 21:07.47 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 21:07.53 |
IriX64 |
really? |
| 21:08.07 |
brlcad |
well, at
least no if you also want to expect it to work |
| 21:08.09 |
IriX64 |
it used to
work on 7.6.0 |
| 21:08.19 |
IriX64 |
and
7.6.2 |
| 21:08.20 |
brlcad |
you got
lucky |
| 21:08.25 |
IriX64 |
twice? |
| 21:08.30 |
brlcad |
it *can*
work |
| 21:08.37 |
IriX64 |
details
plz. |
| 21:08.39 |
brlcad |
but it
doesn't mean it *will* or should work |
| 21:08.52 |
IriX64 |
not a problem
then? |
| 21:09.29 |
brlcad |
it's a
problem with what you're doing, but not a problem with how it's set
up |
| 21:09.45 |
IriX64 |
wrong
sequence? |
| 21:09.52 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 21:09.55 |
brlcad |
and wrong
parameters |
| 21:10.04 |
IriX64 |
ty. |
| 21:10.13 |
IriX64 |
Ill study up
on it. |
| 21:10.47 |
IriX64 |
right now i'm
listening to Romeo and Juliet by Dire Straits. :) |
| 21:11.00 |
brlcad |
read
autogen.sh, look for a section entitled MANUAL_AUTOGEN
FUNCTION |
| 21:11.11 |
IriX64 |
ty i
will. |
| 21:11.49 |
brlcad |
there it
lists the steps you have to take if you want to do it by hand,
though even that is slightly misleading as those steps apply to
non-recursive configurations (and the next release will have
recursive) |
| 21:12.21 |
IriX64 |
automake is
non-recursive ? :P |
| 21:12.25 |
brlcad |
you should
read the header to autogen.sh too -- says what it does in a
summary |
| 21:12.33 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 21:12.39 |
brlcad |
automake is
neither recursive or non-recursive |
| 21:12.50 |
IriX64 |
cmon it
delves |
| 21:13.18 |
IriX64 |
calls itself
too. |
| 21:13.35 |
brlcad |
make recurses
and calls itself |
| 21:13.43 |
brlcad |
automake just
processes a bunch of files passed to it |
| 21:14.58 |
IriX64 |
look for .am
ahh found it engage operate on it mode done look for another, ah
hell its a directory sigh.... |
| 21:16.18 |
IriX64 |
then
translated it to vms dcl. |
| 21:16.55 |
brlcad |
you have a
lot of gillichisms in you |
| 21:17.15 |
IriX64 |
yeah hard to
unlearn you know, but i'm trying. |
| 21:17.45 |
brlcad |
heh, i don't
think that means what you think it means |
| 21:17.54 |
IriX64 |
like typing
with two fingers sigh, ill never beat that. |
| 21:17.58 |
brlcad |
did you read
autogen.sh yet? |
| 21:18.11 |
IriX64 |
you meant
now, hold on... |
| 21:18.24 |
Maloeran |
Typing with 2
fingers? Impressive, you are quite fast at it |
| 21:19.25 |
IriX64 |
err
maunual_autogen_function not there case sensitivity turned off
same. |
| 21:19.50 |
IriX64 |
ty
Maloeran. |
| 21:19.53 |
brlcad |
then you're
not using the newer autogen.sh that you were supposed to have
downloaded a couple days ago |
| 21:20.07 |
IriX64 |
wrong tree
just a sec... |
| 21:20.14 |
brlcad |
look for just
manual then |
| 21:20.31 |
brlcad |
and still,
the header is the same in both, read the intro |
| 21:20.46 |
brlcad |
after the
legal junk is an explanation |
| 21:22.38 |
IriX64 |
look its not
there i tried searching four trees and the scipt i
downloaded. |
| 21:23.22 |
IriX64 |
and i checked
for typos in my search string :) |
| 21:24.30 |
IriX64 |
ill just rely
on autogen. |
| 21:24.51 |
IriX64 |
is the other
method deprecated? |
| 21:29.23 |
brlcad |
which is
pretty much the response of everyone until they learn how to use
them right |
| 21:29.52 |
brlcad |
there are
reasons why the tools are the way that they are, for better or
worse, and seeing why they are the way they are only comes with
time |
| 21:30.32 |
brlcad |
the only way
you can do better really is by changing a lot of assumptions,
requirements, or increasing the baseline |
| 21:30.59 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
when used as documented, they work better than any
alternatives |
| 21:31.21 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
mean easy on the developer, but it does result in an interface that
requires the least of ones users |
| 21:31.43 |
brlcad |
IriX64: in
your case, you also apparently trying to learn how the tools
themselves work for some reason |
| 21:31.54 |
IriX64 |
curiousity. |
| 21:32.05 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, go
learn to code, it's more interesting ;) |
| 21:32.12 |
brlcad |
I can't
fathom why you'd *want* to try to run individual commands when
there are two interfaces provided that work correctly |
| 21:32.12 |
IriX64 |
comparing to
what I am used too. |
| 21:32.31 |
brlcad |
but that's
not even practical knowledge for the most part.. running the
autotools steps like that |
| 21:32.45 |
IriX64 |
Thanks
maloeran I need much knowlewdge care to teach? :) |
| 21:33.08 |
brlcad |
it's not even
a valid comparison to other build environments, as that's not even
the documented use |
| 21:33.14 |
IriX64 |
sorta like
being a backyard mechanic brlcad. |
| 21:33.37 |
Maloeran |
We can't
"teach", but we can answer questions, Grab K&R, the C
programming langyage holy bible, or some online guide |
| 21:33.49 |
IriX64 |
will
do. |
| 21:34.21 |
IriX64 |
God created
me with a leaky valve, I'll be right back. |
| 21:35.11 |
brlcad |
if you really
want to learn how it works under the hood, study autogen.sh in
detail -- read it until you understand it one line at a
time |
| 21:36.12 |
brlcad |
autogen.sh
only exists because of versioning/compatibility flexibility issues
with the autotools over their years of existence, it's a wrapper
around the documented way that "should" just work of running
autoreconf with some options |
| 21:37.21 |
brlcad |
there are no
predefined steps that autoreconf takes that you can replicate for
all projects, it does different things for different projects based
on the contents of the build system files like configure.ac/in,
Makefile.am and other files |
| 21:41.50 |
brlcad |
if there are
no versioning mismatch problems, bugs, or misconfiguration issues,
all autogen.sh does is run autoreconf for you |
| 21:45.08 |
Maloeran |
I'm sure it's
the vim or Blender of configuration scripts, I just wish it could
be used properly without learning so much |
| 21:45.49 |
Maloeran |
Although
libtools has often behaved erratically with me |
| 21:46.23 |
brlcad |
more like the
'ed' of editor interfaces combined with the emacs feature
list |
| 21:48.06 |
brlcad |
libtool is
the weakest link and most bug prone, but it also juggles the
hardest part .. 90% of new-user libtool problems that I've seen
(even my own) have been incorrect assumptions that happened to work
somewhere but quickly broke under different conditions |
| 21:49.10 |
brlcad |
contrary to
autoconf and automake, libtool usually doesn't abort during
autoreconf when something is specified wrong .. it just causes
wierd/bad things to happen during compile/linking |
| 21:49.29 |
Maloeran |
Example of
erratical behavior. I made a copy of the scripts generated by
libtool to append a "gdb" in the "exec" line, for obvious
reasons |
| 21:49.53 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:51.30 |
Maloeran |
When the list
of .o files change, these gdb scripts become really weird.
Sometimes, they work, and the next moment, they don't ( nothing has
changed ) with the script complaining about some .o
file |
| 21:51.30 |
Maloeran |
You may
recompile without changing anything, and it might work again, then
stop doing so. It's just... erratical |
| 21:51.30 |
brlcad |
why does the
list of .o files change? |
| 21:51.37 |
Maloeran |
Because a new
.c file was added for example |
| 21:52.01 |
brlcad |
if a new c
file is added, and you update the makefile.am, it's going to
recompile the binary, and replace the script |
| 21:52.23 |
Maloeran |
Right, but
the old copy of the script with "gdb" added isn't updated ; and the
behavior of that script is _really_ weird |
| 21:52.47 |
Maloeran |
I realize I
should update the scripts every time, but it really surprised me to
see such inconsistant behavior |
| 21:53.41 |
brlcad |
you've not
said that was wierd/inconsistent |
| 21:54.07 |
Maloeran |
What is weird
is that the old copy of the script with "gdb" added might sometimes
work and sometimes does not |
| 21:54.12 |
brlcad |
if you've
added a new compilation object, the presumably copied one that has
a gdb added is invalid |
| 21:54.20 |
Maloeran |
And I'm
talking about running it 2 times in a row without changing anything
else |
| 21:55.00 |
brlcad |
ahh, what
you're seeing is due to the reason the scripts exist in the first
place too |
| 21:55.30 |
brlcad |
when you
recompiled, the build deleted the actual binary that your gdb
script pointed to, which is actually just a local
lt-binary |
| 21:55.51 |
brlcad |
first pass
through, it actually compiles/links it when you run the
script |
| 21:55.59 |
brlcad |
second pass,
it has the lt- binary |
| 21:56.30 |
Maloeran |
So somehow it
works the first time but not the second?... It doesn't visibly
compile anything |
| 21:56.35 |
brlcad |
still, that's
very much a matter of editing/running something that was/is invalid
and shouldn't work |
| 21:56.45 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: compute and display
speedup |
| 21:57.31 |
brlcad |
right, it
doesn't blather about it, just compiles behind the scenes, and it
does this for a rather good reason -- it's why it's a shell script
there in the first place and not just the binary |
| 21:57.58 |
brlcad |
if you want a
binary that you can just run, you can disable shared libraries
during configure |
| 21:58.05 |
Maloeran |
I thought it
was just to set the shared library paths right |
| 21:58.17 |
brlcad |
that's one of
the things it does |
| 21:58.30 |
brlcad |
how to do
that portably depends on the platform too |
| 21:58.55 |
brlcad |
so it relinks
the binary so that it should run without being installed (however
that can be acheived for the target platform) |
| 22:00.04 |
brlcad |
what ``Erik
said is actually what you're "supposed" to do according to the
docs, the fact that adding a gdb --args into the script works is
about as significant as pulling out a hex editor on a binary to get
some modified behavior |
| 22:00.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: compute and save the hit points
and normals |
| 22:02.03 |
Maloeran |
All right,
and this explains the "sometimes works, sometimes doesn't"
part |
| 22:03.24 |
``Erik |
it always
works, it just doesn't do what you expect :D |
| 22:03.24 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: extract the path string per
region |
| 22:04.42 |
brlcad |
yep, almost
guaranteed that it either notices the lt-binary is missing or is at
least out of sync timestamp-wise (depends on your version of
libtool), and it attempts to relink .. which I would think would
fail sometimes due to symbols missing and othertimes for other
reasons |
| 22:05.09 |
brlcad |
or at least
what you want |
| 22:05.57 |
``Erik |
"do what I
mean, not what I say!" |
| 22:38.06 |
IriX64 |
mea culpa,
what time would you like me to report to the firing
squad? |
| 22:38.32 |
Maloeran |
At 26:14 and
be on time! |
| 22:38.44 |
IriX64 |
Right
captain. |
| 22:39.02 |
brlcad |
would you
like fish sticks or peanut butter as your last meal? |
| 22:39.13 |
IriX64 |
also explains
why brlcad is channel op :) |
| 22:39.39 |
IriX64 |
mmmmm
sirloin, rare :) |
| 22:39.57 |
IriX64 |
trying to
accuse me of buttering you up? |
| 22:40.35 |
brlcad |
you're the
wrong gender to be buttering me up |
| 22:40.45 |
IriX64 |
it's
configing happily now. thanks for the tutorial. |
| 22:41.09 |
IriX64 |
thats for
sure man... the parts were'nt meant to go together :) |
| 22:41.13 |
brlcad |
seriously,
though -- if you want to know how the engine works, read through
autogen.sh in detail -- at least the comments |
| 22:41.21 |
IriX64 |
were'nt
too. |
| 22:41.35 |
IriX64 |
already
started. |
| 22:42.08 |
IriX64 |
I can safely
be accused of being just a casual *nix user. |
| 22:44.31 |
IriX64 |
and now it's
happily "making" |
| 22:51.57 |
brlcad |
not really,
other than perhaps having had this discussion at least twice now
about how you should read autogen.sh if you really want to break
things into pieces like that.. and I think you've still not done
that :P |
| 22:53.49 |
IriX64 |
45000000
Maloeran, thats a pricey sentence. |
| 22:55.18 |
Maloeran |
Failure to
paiment will return in spatial confinement for 6.5*9^10 units of
Plank time |
| 22:57.39 |
IriX64 |
Plank as in
walk? |
| 22:57.44 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/369597 |
| 22:57.57 |
IriX64 |
still working
on this. |
| 22:58.27 |
brlcad |
i feel like a
parrot with you sometimes :) |
| 22:58.52 |
IriX64 |
heh you
didn't have to go look :) |
| 22:59.02 |
brlcad |
that's some
entirely unknown ld/cygwin/libtool issue |
| 22:59.29 |
IriX64 |
agreed, funy
thing is it keeps compiling. |
| 22:59.34 |
brlcad |
your best bet
is to install libz and/or libpng on your own, add them as static
libs to the build during configure |
| 22:59.47 |
brlcad |
ah, now it's
compiling? yesterday it was failing? |
| 22:59.50 |
brlcad |
what'd you
change? |
| 23:00.14 |
IriX64 |
build
alias. |
| 23:00.23 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 23:00.56 |
IriX64 |
--build=i686-pc-cygwin compiles,
--build=whatever compiles only with --disable switch. |
| 23:00.59 |
brlcad |
if people
aren't supposed to click on a link or derive something interesting
by clicking on a link, then it shouldn't be pasted :P |
| 23:01.33 |
IriX64 |
kindly
telling me to watch what links i put in the channel, noted and
thank you :) |
| 23:03.17 |
brlcad |
I'd also
think that there's no need to keep thanking people after you're
told things, I can't imagine that you really are *that* thankful
for everything .. |
| 23:03.30 |
brlcad |
maybe thank
when it's thank-worthy, really useful? :) |
| 23:03.35 |
brlcad |
just a
thought :) |
| 23:03.40 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:04.07 |
IriX64 |
I've never
ever really grown up you see :) |
| 23:04.19 |
IriX64 |
treat
everybody like their my parents. |
| 23:04.23 |
brlcad |
that much I
gathered a really long time ago |
| 23:04.44 |
brlcad |
I swore you
were 12 for months |
| 23:04.56 |
brlcad |
still do some
days |
| 23:06.42 |
IriX64 |
zasm was
kinda fun too eh ``Erik? |
| 23:10.21 |
IriX64 |
do
incompatible pointer types warnings interest you? I can restart if
they do. |
| 23:12.29 |
Maloeran |
Ignore, it's
probably fine |
| 23:12.40 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 23:13.17 |
IriX64 |
fixed Sc.c
and cursor.c tho. |
| 23:13.50 |
IriX64 |
(char *)
buncha times in both. |
| 23:21.41 |
brlcad |
IriX64: nah,
it would be nice for someone to actually go through and fix all of
the warnings, especially make it so that --enable-warnings comes up
clean |
| 23:22.24 |
brlcad |
but that's
mostly dusting under the lampshade in the closet in the upstairs
bedroom sorts of maintenance |
| 23:44.20 |
IriX64 |
i might
tackle it don't know about code will never be executed though
:) |
| 23:45.55 |
louipc |
salutations |
| 23:46.14 |
IriX64 |
and everybody
hallucinated :) |
| 23:46.50 |
brlcad |
louipc: howdy
loui |
| 23:48.06 |
Maloeran |
Some warnings
can't be removed without negatively impacting performance,
annoyingly |
| 23:48.28 |
IriX64 |
tajke your
pick clean or mean :) |
| 23:48.33 |
IriX64 |
take
too. |
| 23:48.47 |
louipc |
I choose
mean |
| 23:49.42 |
Maloeran |
I say
efficiency above clean code, portability and
reliability! |
| 23:49.45 |
brlcad |
those are
pretty darn rare, and usually imply reliance on just compiler
behavior that one probably can't be guaranteed anyways (beyond
compiler writer promises) |
| 23:50.33 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, such
as these "variable might be used unitialized" or even "variable is
used unitialized" |
| 23:51.00 |
Maloeran |
Though the
second one is very specific |
| 23:51.02 |
louipc |
actually I
choose portability |
| 23:51.06 |
brlcad |
the problem
with efficiency, is that you can blame so many things on that
banner to the point of rediculousness |
| 23:51.53 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
err.. using a variable that's been uninitialized would be bad
unreliable behavior |
| 23:52.19 |
``Erik |
bakebakebake |
| 23:52.25 |
brlcad |
that's
usually something that might work on one system/compiler, but could
easily cause an outright crash on another |
| 23:52.30 |
Maloeran |
It's not
unitialized, but GCC isn't clever enough to understand it. Pick a
SSE m128 register, if you write the lower and higher 64 bits
independantely, GCC will complain it's unitialized |
| 23:52.57 |
brlcad |
ahh, that's
somewhat different -- that borderlines on a false
positive |
| 23:53.20 |
Maloeran |
Sure, I'm
talking about these borderline cases here, where removing the
warning would reduce performance |
| 23:53.47 |
``Erik |
ohyeah, mal,
it breaks on fbsd again, some _mm ops that are named different or
somethin' |
| 23:54.11 |
Maloeran |
That's weird,
anything more specific? |
| 23:54.15 |
brlcad |
that one in
particular "probably" falls under the "pretty darn rare" category,
without seeing the actual code |
| 23:54.40 |
``Erik |
I had it, but
I forgot it, um, I suppose I could regenerate the error
:) |
| 23:55.13 |
``Erik |
updateupdateupdate |
| 00:34.30 |
``Erik |
../../rtirenderblend4sse.c: In function
`elemcallb': |
| 00:34.30 |
``Erik |
../../rtirenderblend4sse.c:251: warning:
implicit declaration of function `_mm_castps_si128' |
| 00:34.30 |
``Erik |
../../rtirenderblend4sse.c:251: error:
incompatible type for argument 2 of `_mm_and_si128' |
| 00:39.08 |
Maloeran |
Hum.
Okay |
| 00:39.31 |
Maloeran |
Do you have
SSE2 on that box? |
| 00:40.22 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:42.20 |
Maloeran |
On FreeBSD,
right? Does it find emmintrin.h? Don't you have these pseudo
function calls in it? |
| 00:43.18 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps I
used non-standard SSE intrinsics by mistake, I'm just a bit
surprised |
| 00:43.48 |
``Erik |
$ ls -l
/usr/include/emmintrin.h |
| 00:43.48 |
``Erik |
-r--r--r-- 1
root wheel 34528 Sep 16 2005
/usr/include/emmintrin.h |
| 00:44.23 |
Maloeran |
Can you grep
it for castps_si128? |
| 00:44.44 |
Maloeran |
Must be a
non-standard SSE intrinsic, it's just a cast anyway |
| 00:45.22 |
``Erik |
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/contrib/gcc/config/i386/emmintrin.h?rev=1.1.1.3&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup |
| 00:47.01 |
Maloeran |
Okay. I'll
fix that soon |
| 00:47.53 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:48.04 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 00:48.50 |
brlcad |
"There was a
problem with the switch that has been resolved by the IP
Engineering department, your server was not rebooted but is
currently online and responsive to my ping requests." |
| 00:49.08 |
brlcad |
for anyone on
or connected to .bz, that is |
| 00:52.04 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 00:56.17 |
``Erik |
ld:
.libs/job.o has external relocation entries in non-writable section
(__TEXT,__text) for symbols: |
| 00:56.17 |
``Erik |
jobThreadWork |
| 00:56.19 |
``Erik |
neat |
| 00:57.57 |
Maloeran |
What is
that? |
| 00:58.47 |
Maloeran |
Oh, some
platform doesn't like my assembly hack to align the stack on 16
bytes on ia32 |
| 00:59.18 |
Maloeran |
Have a look
at RF/job.c, I'm not sure what that error message means |
| 01:03.46 |
Maloeran |
Any thoughts
or further insight? |
| 01:05.05 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168049077.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:08.36 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:08.45 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 01:09.13 |
``Erik |
couldn't you
do something like an alignment attribute? O.o |
| 01:09.51 |
Maloeran |
No, it's the
stack itself that is not aligned |
| 01:10.06 |
Maloeran |
The compiler
can't preserve stack alignment if the thread stack wasn't aligned
to begin with |
| 01:10.37 |
``Erik |
hrm
*shrug* |
| 01:10.37 |
IriX64 |
what the hey
does the compiler care about a users thread? |
| 01:10.37 |
Maloeran |
So when
launching a thread, first thing I do is fixing the alignment, and
the compiler preserves the alignment from that point |
| 01:10.46 |
IriX64 |
it's all
code. |
| 01:10.57 |
IriX64 |
unless you
have thread optimizations. |
| 01:10.59 |
``Erik |
the compiler
doesn't, but if you are misaligned when you try to execute an sse
op, shit blows up |
| 01:11.11 |
IriX64 |
runtime? |
| 01:11.14 |
Maloeran |
Yes |
| 01:11.15 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 01:11.17 |
IriX64 |
obviously
duh. |
| 01:11.43 |
IriX64 |
auto assigned
stack or user determined? |
| 01:11.56 |
Maloeran |
What's the
fix, Erik? Is the symbol incorrect on fbsd, does it need an
underscore or something? |
| 01:12.04 |
Maloeran |
Automatically
assigned stack |
| 01:12.23 |
IriX64 |
system
*should keep track of it then. |
| 01:12.28 |
IriX64 |
alas |
| 01:12.37 |
IriX64 |
all systems
are not created equeal. |
| 01:12.44 |
Maloeran |
An automatic
stack will be allocated in the proper memory bank for the
processor, for higher performance. If I were to provide it, I would
need to do some non-portable libNUMA fu and Erik would hate
me |
| 01:12.53 |
IriX64 |
ergo code
generated for one system etc... |
| 01:13.13 |
IriX64 |
heh beat eric
with a noodle. |
| 01:13.43 |
IriX64 |
btw am i
breaking anything by having Mr. Muss's face on my
space? |
| 01:13.59 |
IriX64 |
I mean is it
allowed i should have asked first. |
| 01:14.39 |
``Erik |
what symbol?
the job breakage was osX on an x86 core duo |
| 01:14.58 |
Maloeran |
The
jobThreadWork symbol that I'm calling from assembly |
| 01:15.34 |
``Erik |
that's a mac,
not fbsd |
| 01:16.04 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't know the fix |
| 01:16.05 |
Maloeran |
<--
neither |
| 01:16.06 |
``Erik |
<-- thinks
only linux has the alignment broken stuff, though |
| 01:16.32 |
Maloeran |
Erik, test
it. Disable the RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK switch |
| 01:16.35 |
``Erik |
I'm fairly
sure you can just call jobThreadWork() on fbsd and it
self-aligns |
| 01:16.47 |
``Erik |
but your sse
stuff is broken on fbsd right now *shrug* |
| 01:17.58 |
``Erik |
heh, I have
my reasons. |
| 01:18.25 |
Maloeran |
If you want
to test Erik, just replace _mm_castps_si128(x) with
(__m128i)x |
| 01:20.02 |
``Erik |
I deleted
RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK from config.h and it works fine on the
mac |
| 01:20.21 |
``Erik |
I think
RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK should only be if __linux__ &&
__x86__ |
| 01:20.27 |
Maloeran |
Agreed |
| 01:22.57 |
``Erik |
hrm, ok,
changing the castps let it compile... but it's not decently headed,
so rfdemo won't do well |
| 01:23.11 |
``Erik |
what can I
run to see if it executes without crashing with no head?
:D |
| 01:23.48 |
Maloeran |
rfregtest?
:) |
| 01:23.55 |
``Erik |
failed to
create context |
| 01:24.03 |
``Erik |
does it
assume files in pwd? |
| 01:24.10 |
Maloeran |
Yes |
| 01:24.20 |
``Erik |
bah |
| 01:24.45 |
Maloeran |
Context
creation failed is about rt.conf and the .so |
| 01:30.18 |
``Erik |
log2f issues
again, heh |
| 01:31.38 |
Maloeran |
Your last
"fix" would never detect log2() in any circumstance, because it's
C99 and requires -lm |
| 01:31.49 |
Maloeran |
And the
configure thing tested C89 without -lm |
| 01:33.27 |
``Erik |
heh, quit
using c99? :D *duck* |
| 01:35.40 |
``Erik |
ok, hacked
the log2 defs back in and it's cooking away now |
| 01:35.42 |
``Erik |
no crashes so
far |
| 01:36.00 |
Maloeran |
Do you think
you could test a big endian platform? |
| 01:37.05 |
``Erik |
pretty
easily |
| 01:37.11 |
``Erik |
but SDL gives
you that for free O.o |
| 01:37.40 |
Maloeran |
Ah well,
there's the geometry group file format to test too |
| 01:38.03 |
Maloeran |
No big deal,
it should work unless I made a stupid typo somewhere |
| 01:38.42 |
brlcad |
heh, sdl
don't give jack for free |
| 01:38.44 |
``Erik |
ok, the hack
is off and regtest is running on opteron/fbsd now |
| 01:38.47 |
brlcad |
there's a
price *somewhere* |
| 01:38.54 |
``Erik |
heh, yeah,
you have to include it to get the macros |
| 01:39.04 |
``Erik |
which
penalize the unpreferred format |
| 01:39.30 |
Maloeran |
The hack is
only for ia32 platforms by the way |
| 01:39.41 |
brlcad |
providing
seamless maintainability integration can be a pita with them, but
doable |
| 01:39.45 |
Maloeran |
The switch is
ignored on amd64, as it's unecessary and it's ia32 assembly
anyway |
| 01:39.57 |
``Erik |
it was on in
my compile :/ |
| 01:40.08 |
Maloeran |
Sure it's on,
but ignored in the code |
| 01:40.16 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 01:40.31 |
``Erik |
how long does
it take for results agan? |
| 01:40.54 |
Maloeran |
It takes
several minutes, just kill it ;) |
| 01:41.03 |
``Erik |
woops, there
went a core dump |
| 01:41.12 |
Maloeran |
Woah. |
| 01:41.57 |
``Erik |
#0
0x000000080144b89c in pthread_testcancel () from
/lib/libpthread.so.2 |
| 01:42.35 |
Maloeran |
Can you
backtrace a bit more? |
| 01:43.05 |
``Erik |
I bailed out
of the machine and closed the screen, sorry... there were only
three symbols, the first and last were pthread |
| 01:43.38 |
Maloeran |
Actually...
This was refregtest, right? I think I forgot to fix something
there |
| 01:43.53 |
``Erik |
yeah,
rfregtest |
| 01:44.03 |
brlcad |
woot,
autogen.sh now works from subconf dirs |
| 01:44.13 |
``Erik |
given the
number of machines I was jumping through and the slow link, rfdemo
wouldn't have worked well :) |
| 01:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 01:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: add
a function to locate the configure template so that we find the
right files |
| 01:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: when
running autogen.sh from an ac_config_subdirs directory, perhaps
being |
| 01:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
configured/compiled in isolation (without making a copy of this
script). also |
| 01:47.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: add
a sanity check that we did indeed end up with a configure script
when all |
| 01:47.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: was
said and done. |
| 01:51.44 |
brlcad |
IriX64: ehm..
that's pretty impossible at this point |
| 01:51.59 |
brlcad |
the channel
is publicly logged and indexed by google daily |
| 01:52.13 |
IriX64 |
ahh
well. |
| 01:52.29 |
IriX64 |
<*> |
| 01:54.27 |
brlcad |
search for
"IriX64 BRL-CAD" and you can see a few on the first page
alone |
| 01:56.34 |
Maloeran |
Cool, logs
from the channel 14 months ago |
| 01:57.03 |
IriX64 |
really?
explains something |
| 01:58.11 |
``Erik |
heh http://paste.lisp.org/display/30558 |
| 01:59.06 |
IriX64 |
jack?....
Jack Shit, I know him well. ;) |
| 01:59.30 |
IriX64 |
what are you
testing? |
| 01:59.54 |
IriX64 |
ermf for get
I said that or you'll be asking me same question. |
| 02:01.11 |
Maloeran |
IriX64, grab
a C guide online, get dev-c++ and get started |
| 02:01.18 |
``Erik |
heh,
squeak |
| 02:01.48 |
IriX64 |
the mouse
that roared? |
| 02:02.11 |
``Erik |
no, the
smalltalk environment |
| 02:02.22 |
``Erik |
irix: check
out http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ |
| 02:02.23 |
``Erik |
it's
nifty |
| 02:02.29 |
IriX64 |
why smalltalk
why not crosstalk? |
| 02:03.06 |
IriX64 |
ermf
xbox? |
| 02:04.46 |
Maloeran |
Seriously,
IriX64, learn to code ; I think it's the kind of hobby you would
enjoy |
| 02:05.31 |
``Erik |
the exercised
in structured thinking is a good growth opportunity |
| 02:05.46 |
``Erik |
think of it
like sudoku on steroids :) |
| 02:06.06 |
IriX64 |
problem is
the environment insists on stunting my growth :) |
| 02:06.51 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:07.01 |
Maloeran |
The
environment? |
| 02:07.32 |
IriX64 |
structured
programming environment, I seriously don't think like
that. |
| 02:07.48 |
Maloeran |
No one does,
it's an acquired skill |
| 02:07.59 |
Maloeran |
Just give it
a try |
| 02:08.04 |
IriX64 |
old dog, new
tricks thing. |
| 02:08.20 |
``Erik |
what? old
john, new tricks? |
| 02:08.24 |
``Erik |
sorry, I'll
behave O:-) |
| 02:08.29 |
IriX64 |
heheh |
| 02:08.54 |
IriX64 |
when you get
that old the trick is in keeping her :) |
| 02:09.18 |
Maloeran |
Are you
retired or so, IriX64? |
| 02:09.46 |
IriX64 |
disability.
(does it show, mentally challenged :)) |
| 02:11.01 |
Maloeran |
Really? You
seem joyful and not too knowledgeable about computers but I would
not have thought that. Are you serious? |
| 02:11.26 |
IriX64 |
just the
disability part. but i'm getting well. |
| 02:11.57 |
Maloeran |
Well, clearly
you can type, therefore you can code |
| 02:12.09 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:12.13 |
IriX64 |
used to be a
DEC fse before i took work hhere at the plant (Algoma Steel
Inc) |
| 02:12.27 |
``Erik |
plenty of
hunt&peck coders out there |
| 02:12.28 |
IriX64 |
trvth |
| 02:13.06 |
Maloeran |
It's a
disability acquired at a steel mill?.. |
| 02:13.14 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 02:13.29 |
``Erik |
if you spend
more time typing than thinking, I'd assert that either you're using
an inappropriate language for the task, or approaching the task in
a silly manner |
| 02:13.42 |
Maloeran |
Ouch. Would
you... share details, if you want to? |
| 02:14.07 |
IriX64 |
re: coding? I
tend to disagree, you could just be a hunt and pecker
:) |
| 02:14.29 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran not
publicly sorry. |
| 02:14.50 |
``Erik |
heh, mal is a
pecker :D |
| 02:14.50 |
Maloeran |
Okay,
right. |
| 02:15.09 |
IriX64 |
``Erik is a
hunter :) |
| 02:15.19 |
``Erik |
spyhunter,
yo |
| 02:15.30 |
IriX64 |
wait ive got
dialtone. |
| 02:15.50 |
IriX64 |
bond james
bone. |
| 02:15.56 |
``Erik |
bondo? |
| 02:15.58 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 02:16.15 |
IriX64 |
stuff used to
patch cars get with it. |
| 02:16.16 |
``Erik |
car repair
paste of international superspies? O.o |
| 02:16.52 |
IriX64 |
paste? as in
pasting teeth? :) |
| 02:17.36 |
IriX64 |
tell me
``Erik if it's common sense, why isn't there more of it
around? |
| 02:18.19 |
``Erik |
heh, don't
make me bust out my big books of steven wright quotes |
| 02:18.42 |
``Erik |
or mitch
hedberg |
| 02:18.59 |
IriX64 |
steven
wright? I turn to calvin and hobbes. |
| 02:20.29 |
Maloeran |
Hey Justin,
received mail from Mark forwarding yours |
| 02:20.51 |
Maloeran |
The voxel
stuff was dropped on the way, apparently the people who thought
they needed it were actually using triangles |
| 02:21.49 |
Twingy |
we'll see
about that |
| 02:29.54 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran, I
wasn't really kidding about that don't start the thread bit, if it
gives you hassle incorporate the code into whatever thinks it needs
to start a thread. |
| 02:30.44 |
IriX64 |
forr what its
worth :) |
| 02:34.24 |
Maloeran |
Threads
shouldn't be avoided, they are used to distribute the work over
multiple processors |
| 02:35.24 |
IriX64 |
not saying
avoid them bit if one particular piece of code is giving you grief
why fight it. |
| 02:38.11 |
Maloeran |
It's fine,
just OSX doing things a bit differently, no big deal |
| 02:41.43 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:48.04 |
louipc |
what's the
ideology behind that feature? |
| 02:49.42 |
Maloeran |
That ia32's
largest data type is "double", which is 8 bytes, therefore stacks
only require 8 bytes alignment |
| 02:50.51 |
Maloeran |
Then SSE
arrived, which required 16 bytes. The glibc and kernel crowd kept
putting the blame on the other camp, I think it got fixed at some
point |
| 02:52.25 |
Maloeran |
Compilers
like Intel would align the stack of every function dynamically
whenever SSE was used to work around that issue |
| 02:59.15 |
louipc |
wowzers this
processor mumbo jumbo is beyond me |
| 02:59.57 |
Maloeran |
Oops I'm
sorry, I assumed you were a programmer |
| 03:07.59 |
louipc |
no prob, I'm
just reading generally about it now. It makes programming at the
processor level look like a real pain |
| 03:09.15 |
louipc |
IriX64: you
have a *nix? which one? |
| 03:10.29 |
IriX64 |
DEC
:P |
| 03:12.04 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 03:13.17 |
IriX64 |
pdp11/70
louipc :) |
| 03:14.21 |
louipc |
haha no
way |
| 03:15.37 |
IriX64 |
sysV runs
well on it tho. |
| 03:17.32 |
IriX64 |
btw if
anybody cares, ./m4 *seems tied to 1.9.6. |
| 03:35.52 |
IriX64 |
louipc,
recepricol question which unixen do you have? |
| 03:38.50 |
IriX64 |
can i do it
that way? |
| 13:20.05 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.114.160) |
| 14:14.46 |
``Erik |
*cookcookcook* |
| 15:10.46 |
*** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) |
| 15:10.51 |
lg_ |
hey... |
| 15:11.22 |
lg_ |
i am here
with a mged modeling question... something i would do with an
extrude along path in another app... |
| 15:12.18 |
lg_ |
i am building
a segment of a domes with ribs, but everything is
rounded |
| 15:15.54 |
lg_ |
ok, thank
you... |
| 15:16.03 |
Maloeran |
If you were
to idle for a while, you'll get an answer eventually, but I
wouldn't count on anything in a short time |
| 15:16.27 |
lg_ |
i think i
have first to cut away the corner and than past in a part of a
torus, which is awful |
| 15:17.07 |
lg_ |
maloeran, do
you know if it is possible to specify geometry by angle in mged? it
is a rather basic question, but i could not find an answer
yet |
| 16:31.11 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
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| 16:45.38 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
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| 17:56.21 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
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| 17:56.31 |
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| 18:28.53 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: be a little more liberal on the
-all_load libtool script fix to avoid escaping the
dollarsign |
| 19:24.02 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-213.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:08.29 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: loop over potential locations
instead of just testing for one. this helps subdir configures clean
up too if added to their configure. |
| 20:30.14 |
Maloeran |
Cool, 3
minutes to compile BRL-CAD, optimized and
almost-everything |
| 20:36.01 |
brlcad |
nifty |
| 20:36.29 |
louipc |
I'm extremely
jealous |
| 20:36.50 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: how
long for a ./configure --enable-all compile (i.e. non-optimized,
almost-everything) |
| 20:37.17 |
brlcad |
both with
"make -jwhatever" and "make -jwhatever fast" |
| 20:37.43 |
brlcad |
might be in
contention for fastest compile to date |
| 20:52.00 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050480.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:53.32 |
louipc |
IriX64: I'm
running linux, archlinux specifically |
| 20:53.36 |
louipc |
;) |
| 20:54.48 |
IriX64 |
louipc: great
what have you photon mapped (it's such fun) |
| 20:54.48 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, will
test |
| 20:54.48 |
Maloeran |
I'm not too
sure what the optimal -jX is though, yet |
| 20:55.41 |
Maloeran |
--enable-all
is 1 minute 54 seconds |
| 20:56.18 |
Maloeran |
Trying this
"make fast" now |
| 20:56.19 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
with or without 'fast' |
| 20:56.23 |
Maloeran |
Without |
| 20:56.23 |
brlcad |
ahh,
k |
| 20:56.35 |
brlcad |
cool, that
would be a record regardless ;) |
| 20:56.40 |
louipc |
IriX64:
nothing worth noting |
| 20:56.53 |
Maloeran |
Neat, I like
my new toy :) |
| 20:56.54 |
brlcad |
is this cvs
head too, or somewhere thereabouts? |
| 20:57.08 |
Maloeran |
The latest
release, not CVS |
| 20:57.21 |
brlcad |
ahh,
okay |
| 20:57.36 |
brlcad |
still a
record, though latest will be a bit slower |
| 20:57.41 |
IriX64 |
but have you
played with the examples? They're truly works of art, I especially
like castle. |
| 20:58.05 |
*** join/#brlcad cad53
(n=51f8d09e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:58.37 |
Maloeran |
Hum. brlcad,
it didn't tell me the time it took for "make -j12 fast", I guess I
should have clocked |
| 21:00.08 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: ah,
no matter then |
| 21:01.39 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/370750
(*shrug*) |
| 21:02.26 |
Maloeran |
time make
-j12 fast : real 2m3s user 6m46s sys 2m57 |
| 21:02.38 |
Maloeran |
Oh well, it's
adding the time of all cores |
| 21:04.18 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 21:05.12 |
IriX64 |
bwahahah I
can now shut down windows from my cygwin environment. thats
hysterical louipc you wondered what I'm using, I just told you
;) |
| 21:08.38 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/370763 |
| 21:08.51 |
IriX64 |
louipc: check
it. |
| 21:14.33 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/370770
(I'll stop now :)) |
| 22:44.32 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.94) |
| 23:05.15 |
louipc |
IriX64: I
wouldn't call that *nix, it's more like GNU/windows hah |
| 23:19.00 |
``Erik |
indeed, even
less unixy than linux O.O |
| 23:21.35 |
IriX64 |
puhleaze, I
can do anything unix can do try me. |
| 23:21.40 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:21.47 |
IriX64 |
i log in
too. |
| 23:22.29 |
IriX64 |
btw my little
x works very well. |
| 23:22.52 |
IriX64 |
has to or i
would not be able to run BRL-CAD. |
| 23:23.47 |
IriX64 |
wonders
too. |
| 23:24.33 |
``Erik |
ok |
| 23:24.38 |
``Erik |
run on
ppc. |
| 23:24.43 |
``Erik |
or
rs6k. |
| 23:24.45 |
``Erik |
or
h9k |
| 23:24.55 |
``Erik |
or vax or
pdp11 or m68k or ... |
| 23:25.12 |
IriX64 |
now you're
speaking my langugae |
| 23:25.27 |
IriX64 |
pdp8s best
machine ever. |
| 23:26.03 |
``Erik |
or support
hundreds of concurrent users |
| 23:26.11 |
IriX64 |
doing a no
debugging build want to see how fast havoc photon maps. |
| 23:26.30 |
``Erik |
or provide
services to the internet with no antivirus software chewing cycles
and not get infected or cracked |
| 23:26.43 |
IriX64 |
huh? |
| 23:27.19 |
IriX64 |
``Erik i
respect you're opinion no matter how wrong you may be
;) |
| 23:27.34 |
``Erik |
<--
doens't think he's all that wrong O:-) |
| 23:27.50 |
IriX64 |
heh neither
do i :) |
| 23:28.43 |
``Erik |
and photon
mapping is a two phase operation... it raytraces as fast as it does
with no lighting... and the photo map pass totally depends on how
many photons you specify and a few other parameters |
| 23:29.10 |
``Erik |
path tracing
seems a bit more interesting, though... have you managed to get
adrt to build? it has something in it called "rise" which is pretty
neat |
| 23:29.16 |
IriX64 |
sure but you
can get a guesstimate if you leave all the settings the
same. |
| 23:29.34 |
IriX64 |
missing sdl
gotta tend to that. |
| 23:29.40 |
``Erik |
libsdl.org |
| 23:29.44 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 23:33.19 |
IriX64 |
yum thanks
``Erik i'll let you know if I ever get it going btw is it
fraught? |
| 23:34.26 |
IriX64 |
you're
supposed to say "there's just no arguing with a word like fraught"
:) |
| 23:35.25 |
IriX64 |
python is
also needed. |
| 23:36.38 |
``Erik |
... yes, sdl
and python are (sorta) needed, though I think rise itself doesn't
use either |
| 23:36.58 |
IriX64 |
getting
python 2.5 now. |
| 23:37.36 |
``Erik |
n/m, rise
observer uses sdl |
| 23:37.44 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 00:10.19 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: prevent crashes
if termcap is asked to perform a tgetnum() after a tgetent()
fails |
| 00:13.01 |
IriX64 |
it bounces,
cause i'm a rubber necker |
| 00:26.57 |
IriX64 |
that
ultrasparc do solaris64? |
| 00:28.54 |
``Erik |
.... don't
they all? |
| 00:29.22 |
IriX64 |
interesting,
a sparc32 running solaris64, quick call Sun Microsystems
:) |
| 00:29.36 |
``Erik |
ultra is the
v9, they're all 64b |
| 00:30.38 |
``Erik |
they can run
32b code... but the core can do 64b... :) |
| 00:31.14 |
IriX64 |
you and
Maloeran and you're cores, dunno how to talk to you :) |
| 00:31.58 |
``Erik |
we used to
say 'chip' before the multi-core chips started showing
up... |
| 00:32.08 |
``Erik |
and in some
arenas, alu is more accurate |
| 00:32.09 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 00:32.23 |
``Erik |
heh,
nybbles |
| 00:32.25 |
IriX64 |
industrial
its all alu or used to be. |
| 00:32.42 |
IriX64 |
vic
forever. |
| 00:32.45 |
``Erik |
alu is just
part of a core, though |
| 00:32.58 |
Twingy |
commadores
were a 70's band no? |
| 00:33.09 |
``Erik |
cache and
mmu's and stuff get slapped in, too |
| 00:33.21 |
IriX64 |
it could be
argued that the core comprimises the entire system |
| 00:33.28 |
IriX64 |
beat me to it
:) |
| 00:33.53 |
``Erik |
yeah, twinky,
but their mommies dressed them funny ;) |
| 00:37.02 |
IriX64 |
ka-click --
128bit xfer. |
| 00:38.00 |
IriX64 |
how would you
do parallel pipling ``Erik, or maybe we should first define
pipeling. |
| 00:38.13 |
IriX64 |
piplining
too. |
| 00:38.23 |
IriX64 |
bother |
| 00:38.38 |
Twingy |
I need like
50 pounds of play-doh |
| 00:38.51 |
IriX64 |
to plug
something obviously. |
| 00:39.05 |
IriX64 |
make your
own, flour and water. |
| 00:41.11 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, the
bird of discretion just whispered in my ear ;) |
| 00:42.44 |
IriX64 |
louipc my
hardly *nix system rendered havoc at a new angle, visit
www.spaces.live.com/Irix64 |
| 00:44.49 |
``Erik |
... |
| 00:45.00 |
``Erik |
back off the
wallcandy, dude |
| 00:45.15 |
IriX64 |
urf
blacklisted? |
| 00:45.34 |
IriX64 |
will tend to
it. |
| 00:47.54 |
``Erik |
if you want
to get the same angle every time, check out the 'ae'
command |
| 00:49.02 |
IriX64 |
got
it. |
| 00:50.49 |
``Erik |
hm, "help"
shows a list of commands |
| 00:51.14 |
IriX64 |
I always
overlook the obvious for some reason :) |
| 00:51.26 |
``Erik |
(and that's
not even all of them) |
| 00:51.44 |
IriX64 |
he just do a
ls is that right in the bin dir? |
| 00:51.50 |
IriX64 |
heh i
mean. |
| 00:52.45 |
``Erik |
a lot of the
programs in bin/ have commands in the tcl interpreter in mged, but
there're other commands that don't have a bin/
correlary |
| 00:53.21 |
IriX64 |
so moral of
the story is "IriX64, just take a look in all those lovely
direcories". |
| 00:53.36 |
``Erik |
more like
"rtfm" |
| 00:53.36 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 00:56.52 |
brlcad |
ahhhh,
finally found out why jove is now busted on os x |
| 00:58.12 |
``Erik |
it's an emacs
variant, it's broken by design O:-) |
| 00:59.58 |
``Erik |
it's been so
long since I learned vi, I don't remember if I was as dysfunctional
initially as I am with emacs now... :/ |
| 01:00.28 |
brlcad |
it's barely a
variant |
| 01:01.36 |
brlcad |
I had a cheat
sheet sitting on my desk for about a week of non-stop coding before
it became effective |
| 01:01.51 |
brlcad |
but then also
by then, nothing else could compete |
| 01:02.03 |
brlcad |
and it just
got better and better |
| 01:02.40 |
``Erik |
<-- still
learning more about vi o.O |
| 01:03.24 |
louipc |
read the fine
manual ;) |
| 01:32.23 |
``Erik |
http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=08222002 |
| 01:32.24 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 03:06.05 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:06.56 |
IriX64 |
This windows
archer.... it's quite interesting. |
| 03:07.53 |
IriX64 |
are you
planning on putting photon mapping into it? |
| 03:08.27 |
brlcad |
i believe the
ray-tracer is already integrated, just a matter of feeding it the
right options |
| 03:08.39 |
brlcad |
there's no
gui if that's what you mean, like the lighting menu in
mged |
| 03:08.52 |
IriX64 |
urmf, i'll
learn, I just started looking at it. |
| 03:09.15 |
brlcad |
it's good
stuff, it should be improved and integrated more with
mged |
| 03:09.34 |
IriX64 |
agreed, some
really good work here. |
| 03:11.01 |
IriX64 |
the ability
to extract selected components and color them is neat. |
| 03:12.56 |
IriX64 |
s.nos1 in
blue... nice. |
| 03:15.16 |
IriX64 |
hahah s.nos1
rt'ed beautiful job. |
| 03:32.23 |
*** part/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:35.23 |
*** join/#brlcad bewt
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:35.57 |
bewt |
was worried
people would think I know something about the IriX64
system. |
| 03:39.03 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:52.53 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/other/jove/teach-jove.in):
add automatic generation of the teach-jove script during
configure |
| 03:53.05 |
bewt |
libtool, it's
gotta be libtool. :( |
| 04:14.18 |
bewt |
sorry i
mentioned apache here but brlcad is sometimes too big
:) |
| 04:14.27 |
bewt |
err
BRL-CAD. |
| 04:16.30 |
bewt |
bah i quit,
it wasn't libtool. |
| 04:23.31 |
bewt |
tried it
showed me nothing, but here's something, the rev on libapr-0.la
doesn't mach the libtool i'm using. |
| 04:25.53 |
bewt |
and their
ltmain bombs. |
| 04:28.55 |
*** join/#brlcad cad19
(n=59ac9221@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:17.57 |
Maloeran |
Am I missing
something or there's no efficient way to do triple or N buffering
with SDL? |
| 05:45.50 |
Maloeran |
There's no
way around the extra and wasteful copy from a frame surface to the
pseudo-video surface, which in turn needs a copy to the actual
video surface to be visible. Oh well, that wouldn't be a problem
with X shared memory pixmaps |
| 05:52.36 |
brlcad |
it does it
that way because you can't necessarily get access to the video
surface |
| 05:52.50 |
brlcad |
depends on
the video card and driver heavily |
| 05:53.34 |
brlcad |
so they do
what works regardless (and apparently haven't gotten to an
optimization of doing the direct blit when possible, though that
has it's tradeoffs) |
| 05:54.00 |
*** join/#brlcad bewt
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:55.05 |
brlcad |
you can do
triple, N buffering, but not without getting a handle on the SDL
internal for whatever platform you're on |
| 05:55.38 |
brlcad |
and if you're
going to go that route, might as well write your own X code and
forget portability |
| 05:56.59 |
Maloeran |
SDL could
have exposed capabilities to do N buffering without too much
trouble, it would always have avoided the extra copy no matter the
platform |
| 05:58.55 |
Maloeran |
Having one
software surface being copied to the video surface, or having
multiple software surfaces being copied in turn, it's pretty much
the same really |
| 05:59.44 |
brlcad |
and i'm sure
you would have heard "patches welcome" |
| 05:59.51 |
brlcad |
sounds like a
great feature, implement it ;) |
| 06:00.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 06:00.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
hmm.. such a conundrum.. it is nice to clean up and blow away the
aclocal.m4 |
| 06:00.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: that
configure drops in but now that recursive configure works, tcl/tk
actually |
| 06:00.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: use
their own custom aclocal.m4 (instead of acinclude.m4) so deleting
the file |
| 06:00.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: has
undesireable impact on build prep. disable aclocal.m4 deletion for
now. |
| 06:00.42 |
brlcad |
reality is
that it's quite a bit more complicated than you give it credit for
to do reliably across various cards and without undesirable
impact |
| 06:01.27 |
Maloeran |
It's purely a
software, API and logic problem really... |
| 06:01.44 |
brlcad |
say you were
on a card that actually a) had a means to get at video memory that
you could b) reliably detect via sdl/opengl facilities .. as to
whether to use it |
| 06:02.22 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, all
the surfaces can be in system memory, you just need to be able to
copy from any of the directly to the video surface |
| 06:02.26 |
bewt |
``Erik,
private wall candy is getting better ;) |
| 06:02.28 |
brlcad |
then take for
example you have a card that only has 16 or 32 MB of memory.. you
could perhaps do in-memory buffering, but leaving little to nothing
to the app |
| 06:03.00 |
Maloeran |
any of them*
directly |
| 06:03.07 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
sure, they can all be in memory -- that's what they do for double
buffering now iirc |
| 06:03.29 |
brlcad |
system memory
that is |
| 06:03.39 |
Maloeran |
Yes, and
there's absolutely no reason not to allow triple, quad or
quntillion buffering if one has the system memory for
it |
| 06:03.48 |
bewt |
brlcad,
virtual memory comes to mind, but then so does disk
thrashing. |
| 06:03.52 |
brlcad |
even better
is to actually write directly to video memory if you wanted to tune
for the best performance |
| 06:04.19 |
Maloeran |
It's better
to write pixels to system memory and DMA the whole thing
afterwards |
| 06:04.32 |
brlcad |
if that is
available, sure |
| 06:04.55 |
bewt |
err a pixel
has numerous bits. |
| 06:05.11 |
bewt |
you would
slow it down using DMA. |
| 06:05.44 |
Maloeran |
Oh well,
copying 150 frames of 800x600 twice per second instead of once does
not sound appealing, just because of a SDL limitation |
| 06:05.55 |
bewt |
DVA is
preferred but certainly not portable. |
| 06:06.02 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: if
I remember back correctly, you can create your own sdl surfaces and
do your own buffering too, providing your quintillion
buffering |
| 06:06.41 |
Maloeran |
Really? Any
clue on what to look for? I really didn't see anything like
that |
| 06:07.28 |
Maloeran |
You can
create surfaces, but to actually get them to show on the screen,
you would have to : copy them to the SDL's "screen" surface, ask
SDL to copy the "screen" surface to the actual video
surface |
| 06:07.58 |
brlcad |
you create an
sdl sw surface, and then use that with sdl_flip |
| 06:08.21 |
brlcad |
you can
toggle between arbitrary surfaces on a flip |
| 06:08.21 |
Maloeran |
SDL_flip is
for the one double buffered "screen" surface |
| 06:09.10 |
Maloeran |
SDL_Flip()
takes one parameter and it's SDL's "screen" surface which may have
a back buffer built-in, but that's very limited |
| 06:10.24 |
brlcad |
that's what
I'm referring too .. this goes back a while, but the idea is to
create multiple sdl_surface screens in sw mode |
| 06:11.03 |
Maloeran |
There's no
way to render these without copying them to "screen", then asking
SDL to update "screen" to video, is there? |
| 06:11.04 |
brlcad |
they the
video mode has to be double buffered regardless, just so you can
flip |
| 06:11.33 |
Maloeran |
Create
multiple screen surfaces? Oh hum |
| 06:11.35 |
brlcad |
you maintain
one "screen" for each of your surfaces |
| 06:11.39 |
brlcad |
right |
| 06:12.06 |
Maloeran |
I didn't read
anything about that, I'll try something |
| 06:12.17 |
brlcad |
that's just
the old sdl way to do your own buffering |
| 06:12.17 |
Maloeran |
If you have
any example or documentation, it could be nice |
| 06:12.26 |
brlcad |
e.g. if you
had no video memory |
| 06:12.34 |
brlcad |
ideally,
you'd try to get as many screens with SDL_HWSURFACE
first |
| 06:13.05 |
brlcad |
since should
try to do direct mapped video memory if the card supports
it |
| 06:13.24 |
brlcad |
but the code
is a bit nasty to be fault tolerance to detect the failure and fall
back to SDL_SWSURFACE |
| 06:13.33 |
Maloeran |
Writing
pixels to hardware surfaces is a bit too slow, I'm fine with them
being in software |
| 06:13.43 |
brlcad |
and then
wierd things can happen if you have two hw and one sw,
etc |
| 06:13.44 |
Maloeran |
I just want
them to get directly in the real video surface with just one
copy |
| 06:14.33 |
brlcad |
if you're
doing your own buffering, the hw surface is going to be darn faster
than doing sw -- you're just making sdl do the write to a hw
surface |
| 06:16.10 |
Maloeran |
Yes, that's
probably right... HW only works fullscreen though, usually, but
I'll play around once I get the buffering working |
| 06:16.34 |
Maloeran |
I'm surprised
there's not a word about this in the SDL docs |
| 06:16.40 |
brlcad |
ahh, yeah
that's true.. lots of cards won't let you get a hw surface in
various modes |
| 06:16.49 |
brlcad |
that's part
of the whole robustness problem i mentioned |
| 06:20.04 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
it's rare for an app to actually benefit from triple buffering ..
exceedingly rare even for games |
| 06:20.52 |
brlcad |
and many
display systems are providing double-buffering of their own these
days, so you get triple for free when you double-buffer your
own |
| 06:21.33 |
Maloeran |
Indeed, but
it's a different when dealing with software rendering multiple
frames at the same time |
| 06:21.34 |
brlcad |
depends on
the OS and system, of course .. not too common on linux
iirc |
| 06:23.28 |
Maloeran |
a bit*
different |
| 06:24.17 |
brlcad |
yep, and the
variety of apps that need to render frames is a tiny
"market" |
| 06:25.02 |
brlcad |
ray-tracers
.. fractal generators .. maybe screensavers.. |
| 06:25.27 |
bewt |
brlcad: my on
board video cheats, it uses system ram for video
memory. |
| 06:25.33 |
brlcad |
i think what
you're wanting to do used to be a lot more popular a decade or two
ago |
| 06:25.47 |
brlcad |
when you
couldn't get the hardware to double-buffer |
| 06:26.43 |
brlcad |
bewt: yep,
pretty common to push the app to video so the mod can modify the
frames on the fly |
| 06:26.58 |
bewt |
reserved for
video 64-256m |
| 06:27.02 |
Maloeran |
Other APIs
have good support for that kind of stuff, it was rather trivial
with X and... DX3 ( okay, a long time ago :) ) |
| 06:27.35 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
fairly trivial in win32 and with cocoa .. |
| 06:28.49 |
brlcad |
another side
effect of there not being many serious games on linux .. issues
like this have always been a problem -- X11 being an absolute pig
in most respects until very very recently |
| 06:29.56 |
Maloeran |
X isn't that
bad with shared memory pixmaps |
| 06:30.16 |
bewt |
X isn't bad
with opengl either. |
| 06:30.31 |
brlcad |
heh, compared
to the other systems, X11 is one of the worst |
| 06:30.41 |
bewt |
define other
systems. |
| 06:30.44 |
brlcad |
it's really
been only in the past 5-10 years that it's improved |
| 06:31.06 |
brlcad |
closer to 5
for that matter, Xorg corrected a lot of the boneheadness of
X11 |
| 06:31.09 |
bewt |
granted, but
many systems go thru a learning/growing curve. |
| 06:31.27 |
bewt |
look at the
roots of windows :) |
| 06:31.33 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
hold for X11, it's older than all of the others |
| 06:31.44 |
Maloeran |
Ah well.
That's probably right, but I was beginning high school 10 years ago
and writing my first lines of code :) |
| 06:31.53 |
bewt |
so X is a
little slow, big deal |
| 06:32.09 |
brlcad |
heck, even
having shared memory on linux used to be problematic |
| 06:32.44 |
brlcad |
it's only
been really recent that you could get direct opengl access through
X11, and it's still somewhat flaky |
| 06:32.50 |
bewt |
X was at
inception problematic, but then so was the Model T |
| 06:33.10 |
bewt |
try it on
windows xp pro |
| 06:33.29 |
brlcad |
I dont' think
it was "problematic", but it was fundamentally flawed from a
performance perspective because it had a network-oriented
design |
| 06:34.09 |
bewt |
that network
design led to many Xterminal, (X in hardware at least the client
side) |
| 06:34.11 |
Maloeran |
It's far more
complex than other APIs for this reason, but it's still rather
elegant, I have no problem with it |
| 06:34.15 |
brlcad |
when
everything is a client->server->client->hw communication
.. you're going to seriously suck compared to something doing
app->hw |
| 06:34.33 |
brlcad |
it's been
recent that X11 changed so that you could do client->hw more
reliably |
| 06:34.42 |
bewt |
that should
read app->os>hardware |
| 06:34.54 |
brlcad |
elegant? ..
heh .. er .. wow |
| 06:35.06 |
brlcad |
comprehensive.. yes |
| 06:35.12 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
call it elegant in the least though |
| 06:35.13 |
Maloeran |
It solves a
fairly complex problem |
| 06:35.26 |
bewt |
quite well at
that |
| 06:35.27 |
brlcad |
it makes the
problem considerably more complex than it needs tob e |
| 06:36.21 |
brlcad |
it does have
a lot of great aspects, that can be said |
| 06:36.51 |
Maloeran |
Right |
| 06:36.54 |
bewt |
making the
root window, hidden makes it faster yet |
| 06:37.15 |
brlcad |
but from an
overall utility, and compared to the other APIs out there, it's a
big reason GUI development on linux/unix/bsd has been so slow for
two decades compared to the other platforms |
| 06:37.54 |
Maloeran |
Is there? X
is extremely low-level in comparison to other "native" APIs, one
generally uses toolkits built on top of it |
| 06:37.55 |
brlcad |
granted, a
lot of the problems were actually political, and not
technical |
| 06:39.24 |
bewt |
and not a
very good one :) |
| 06:40.32 |
brlcad |
i'm talking
about equivalent "base" api kits for managing the display -- things
like core graphics or even the old toolbox on mac, the mfc/win32
foundation libraries, be's graphic server, etc |
| 06:40.35 |
Maloeran |
I think I
just really like the low-level and flexibility aspects of X, it's
really powerful. It's the assembly of GUI programming
;) |
| 06:41.04 |
Maloeran |
win32 remains
quite a mess, but it's very limiting and high-level, it can afford
to be simpler |
| 06:41.22 |
brlcad |
win32 goes
high and low |
| 06:41.30 |
brlcad |
which is what
makes it seem not simple |
| 06:41.52 |
brlcad |
there are
calls for everything low level too, though |
| 06:42.12 |
bewt |
sadly no more
inportb() |
| 06:42.16 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes,
perhaps, I try to forget my win32 days |
| 06:42.49 |
brlcad |
the other two
are much better examples of pretty APIs, clean low fast
nice |
| 06:43.15 |
brlcad |
Be's was
spectacular, but alas.. |
| 06:43.18 |
bewt |
would that
they would adopt a universal API |
| 06:44.00 |
brlcad |
bewt: how's
that compile coming with LDFLAGS=-verbose ? |
| 06:44.01 |
Maloeran |
BeOS and its
famous is_computer_on_fire() :). I never tried any native Mac
programming |
| 06:44.13 |
Maloeran |
In fact, I
think I never used a Mac |
| 06:44.58 |
brlcad |
core graphics
isn't too shabby |
| 06:46.29 |
brlcad |
cocoa is
sweet, but is a higher level api akin to gtk/qt |
| 06:47.05 |
Maloeran |
gtk2 I liked,
but I don't do much GUI |
| 06:49.53 |
brlcad |
it's a bit of
a beast, and lives in dependency hell, but great
featureset |
| 06:50.03 |
brlcad |
and the
predominant industry momentum |
| 07:59.46 |
bewt |
brlcad:
building rt for you now. |
| 07:59.53 |
bewt |
err
rtlib. |
| 08:00.09 |
bewt |
doh
librt. |
| 08:03.59 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/374105 |
| 08:06.11 |
IriX64 |
btw, that
wall candy is still doing its thing. |
| 08:11.41 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/374109 |
| 08:22.18 |
brlcad |
librt is not
the situation that was causing problems |
| 08:22.46 |
brlcad |
you're
starting from flawed premises.. you can't just start tossing stuff
in the middle like that |
| 08:23.54 |
brlcad |
from a
*fresh* build .. the point was to add the --verbose ld flag *after*
you encountered the libz and/or libpng build failure (*without*
using --disable-shared) |
| 08:24.46 |
brlcad |
seriously..
all the rest is distracting from making any progress on identifying
the first problem .. |
| 08:25.10 |
brlcad |
stuff failing
farther down the build line is not interesting at all until the
first failure is taken care of properly |
| 08:25.30 |
IriX64 |
whats the
point of adding the flag *after the error with libpng |
| 09:07.31 |
brlcad |
for several
reasons, to be sure that it errors (it should still error), and so
that the output is just the relevant verbose linkage details and
not pages of irrelevant log |
| 09:08.29 |
brlcad |
otherwise the
signal noise ratio begins to be practically useless -- too much
useless garbage that doesn't get us anywhere closer to finding out
what the actual problem is |
| 09:24.04 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 09:29.48 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:15.42 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 12:16.13 |
dli |
I wonder how
do I show screw thread in brlcad |
| 12:37.53 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:42.41 |
dli |
how do I
print out the 3d image? |
| 12:43.07 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test for strlcpy |
| 12:46.48 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: initial addition of
strlcpy() |
| 12:48.30 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: |
| 12:48.30 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
initial addition of strlcpy() |
| 12:48.30 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: typo
in basename declaration |
| 12:50.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: HAVE_MEMSET and
HAVE_STRTOK added |
| 12:52.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: |
| 12:52.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
errno.h defines ENAMETOOLONG |
| 12:52.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
should know its own prototype |
| 12:54.39 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: should know its own
prototype |
| 12:56.28 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: basename.c and
strlcpy.c added |
| 12:57.36 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: strlcpy.c
added |
| 13:03.57 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: include sysv.h to
get the basename prototype (in case HAVE_BASENAME is not
defined) |
| 13:09.05 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Added mutex
protection for session open and close |
| 13:31.40 |
rossberg |
dli: what's a
3d image? |
| 13:31.59 |
dli |
rossberg,
from raytracing |
| 13:32.43 |
dli |
rendering as
postscript is ugly, and not what I see on screen |
| 13:35.05 |
rossberg |
i'm using the
ray trace panel in mged, it has an option to write the result into
a *.pix file |
| 13:35.40 |
dli |
rossberg,
howto? |
| 13:35.53 |
rossberg |
there are
programs to convert the pix format e.g. into png |
| 13:36.19 |
dli |
rossberg, how
to output to .pix? |
| 13:36.51 |
rossberg |
menubar ->
Tools -> Raytrace Control Panel |
| 13:38.06 |
rossberg |
there you
have to change the "Destination" |
| 13:38.15 |
dli |
rossberg,
that's the same panel as in File ->Raytrace |
| 13:38.46 |
dli |
rossberg,
great, thanks |
| 13:49.14 |
dli |
rossberg, the
.pix is not valid for imagemagick |
| 13:51.26 |
rossberg |
dli: you need
to convert it e.g. with pix-png |
| 13:51.47 |
rossberg |
(look at man
pix-png first) |
| 13:52.31 |
dli |
rossberg, no,
the file generated is invalid, repeating 0x320000 , nothing
else |
| 13:52.53 |
dli |
indeed, it's
0x000032 |
| 13:53.04 |
Maloeran |
brlcad,
multiple calls to create "screen" surfaces to perform N buffering
always return the same surface ; doesn't seem to be the recommended
method |
| 13:56.00 |
rossberg |
dli: did you
tried "pix-png -a yourfile.pix > yourfile.png |
| 13:56.41 |
Maloeran |
The #sdl
crowd doesn't seem to know either |
| 13:57.01 |
dli |
rossberg,
only garbage in the .png generated |
| 13:58.14 |
dli |
rossberg,
hold on, it's not all 0x000032 |
| 13:59.21 |
dli |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:59.22 |
dli |
pix-png:
unable to autosize |
| 14:05.56 |
rossberg |
dli: ok, now
try pix-png -w <width in pixel> -n <height in pixel>
sample-holder.pix > sample-holder.png |
| 14:07.23 |
dli |
rossberg,
great, it's an imagemagick bug then |
| 14:16.25 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bariton@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:19.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Bary
(n=Bariton@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:20.30 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:25.39 |
Elperion |
is there a
way to export the framebuffer as graphic? |
| 14:34.38 |
rossberg |
Elperion:
(menubar)File -> Raytrace; change "Destination" to pix-file;
read the pix-png manual page |
| 14:36.01 |
Elperion |
ok
thx |
| 14:36.24 |
Elperion |
great |
| 14:36.27 |
Elperion |
i never
looked there |
| 14:36.28 |
Elperion |
cya |
| 15:08.52 |
dli |
any way to
move a part ( .r range)? like linear shift |
| 15:56.01 |
``Erik |
int32
is_computer_on(void) Returns 1 if the computer is on. If the
computer isn't on, the value returned by this function is
undefined. |
| 15:56.12 |
``Erik |
double
is_computer_on_fire(void) Returns the temperature of the
motherboard if the computer is currently on fire. If the computer
isn't on fire, the function returns some other value. |
| 15:56.23 |
``Erik |
interesting,
those beos kids have a sense of humor :) |
| 16:40.53 |
brlcad |
wow, the same
question twice in one morning |
| 16:44.10 |
Maloeran |
brlcad,
confirmed by SDL folks, SDL can't do N buffering without nasty
extra copies |
| 16:45.20 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
define "nasty extra copies" |
| 16:45.37 |
Maloeran |
Copy from
surface N to "screen" surface, copy from "screen" surface to video
memory |
| 16:46.01 |
Maloeran |
So there are
2 copies per frame when only one should be required with a proper
API |
| 16:47.09 |
Maloeran |
I'm vaguely
amused by how much faster non-SDL buffering to record videos
is |
| 18:48.49 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: er
.. you only get the one copy with some sort of direct memory
access, mapping video memory to some address range in system
memory |
| 18:49.36 |
brlcad |
that much was
already pretty much guaranteed to not be portably
possible |
| 18:49.40 |
brlcad |
I thought you
understood that just from what we talked about
earlier.. |
| 18:50.14 |
brlcad |
that's why
they are SDL_SWSURFACEs |
| 18:51.42 |
brlcad |
you cannot
guarantee just one copy without having the hardware capability
irrsepective of the API (which maybe is what you are
presuming/assuming) |
| 18:54.14 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, SDL
can copy the content of the software "screen" surface to the actual
video memory with just one copy |
| 18:54.43 |
Maloeran |
If I want to
copy another software surface, not the software "screen" surface, I
need two whole copy operations |
| 18:55.11 |
Maloeran |
It's an
arbitrary limitation, just to keep the API simple |
| 18:56.58 |
brlcad |
not sure I
follow what you mean by "another software surface, not the software
"screen" surface" |
| 18:57.28 |
brlcad |
you create an
sdl_surface .. you write pixels to it |
| 18:57.41 |
brlcad |
sdl copies
those to video memory |
| 18:57.54 |
Maloeran |
That works
for the software "screen" surface, yes |
| 18:58.04 |
brlcad |
right |
| 18:58.22 |
Maloeran |
If you want
to copy another surface to video memory, you first have to copy it
to the software "screen" surface, *then* you have to copy the
software "screen" surface to video memory |
| 18:58.34 |
Maloeran |
Which is
terribly wasteful |
| 18:59.15 |
brlcad |
you have
another screen surface |
| 18:59.38 |
Maloeran |
You can only
have one "screen" surface |
| 18:59.49 |
brlcad |
you have
another sdl_surface |
| 19:00.29 |
Maloeran |
Yes, but you
can not copy from it directly to video memory |
| 19:00.35 |
brlcad |
i'm just not
following what you expect "should" be possible, other than it
sounding like you wanting hardware surfaces |
| 19:00.40 |
Maloeran |
You can only
copy from it to the "screen" surface, which must in turn be copied
to video memory |
| 19:01.06 |
brlcad |
right, but
you CAN'T do that reliably without assuming hardware
capabilities |
| 19:01.10 |
Maloeran |
I should be
able to have 10 software "surfaces", and myself copy the data from
any of them directly into video memory |
| 19:01.34 |
Maloeran |
The only
limitation is system memory, there's still only one hardware
surface |
| 19:01.55 |
brlcad |
what you're
talking about is writing to mapped video memory .. video memory
mapped to system memory so you are effectively writing to video
memory |
| 19:02.40 |
brlcad |
there are
some cards that will directly reference system memory for you, but
even that is not prevalent |
| 19:02.50 |
Maloeran |
Writing to
it, DMA'ing to it ; I should be able to copy from a surface
directly to the real video hardware surface ( not SDL's "screen"
) |
| 19:03.14 |
brlcad |
with DMA ..
that's exactly what I'm saying is a hardware
characteristic |
| 19:03.20 |
brlcad |
not something
that can be taken for granted |
| 19:03.25 |
Maloeran |
... Okay, I
think I need to clarify |
| 19:03.51 |
Maloeran |
SDL already
copies from the *software* single and only screen surface directly,
with one copy, no matter the underlying method used |
| 19:04.26 |
brlcad |
sure, you
provide the pixels, and it stores them *somewhere* |
| 19:04.28 |
Maloeran |
It should be
possible to have other identical *software* surfaces which could be
copied by SDL directly in the video memory, by the same mechanisms.
They are all software surfaces, it doesn't even matter which one is
being copied |
| 19:05.18 |
brlcad |
it's only
"directly in the video memory" when you have video mapped memory,
DMA or equivalence |
| 19:05.33 |
Maloeran |
I'm not ever
accessing that memory directly, SDL is |
| 19:05.42 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 19:05.58 |
Maloeran |
SDL is
copying from its "screen" software surface directly into the video
memory, but it can't copy directly from any other
surface |
| 19:06.26 |
Maloeran |
And that is
most arbitrary, it's an API and design limitation ; it's easily
done in X or DX |
| 19:07.24 |
brlcad |
ahh, maybe
you mean it copies from what system memory buffer to another system
memory buffer before sending to the video card? .. i.e. tying a
particular surface to the video mapped hardware? |
| 19:08.27 |
Maloeran |
Yes, that's
the only way to copy from one software surface to video memory, you
have to go through the software "screen" surface with SDL
first |
| 19:08.56 |
brlcad |
aah, okay..
that's not what you were initially saying |
| 19:09.04 |
brlcad |
at least not
the way it was worded |
| 19:09.17 |
brlcad |
but then we
only have like three nouns to work with here.. heh |
| 19:09.35 |
Maloeran |
It sure is
what I'm trying to explain by 10 different ways since yesterday
:) |
| 19:09.55 |
brlcad |
i can see
that, though I recall there being a way to change swap "screen"
surfaces |
| 19:09.57 |
*** join/#brlcad cad65
(n=4788598e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:10.04 |
brlcad |
maybe that's
no longer possible |
| 19:10.26 |
brlcad |
that's what I
was referring to with the flip -- you actually flip to an entirely
different screen |
| 19:10.40 |
cad65 |
i can't
access freenode from my irc client today - can anyone here help me
out? |
| 19:10.54 |
brlcad |
that may or
may not be a double-buffered hardware surface, or might be a
software one |
| 19:10.54 |
Maloeran |
The built-in
SDL flipping capabilities are limited to two surfaces |
| 19:11.27 |
cad65 |
i'm using a
web chat now |
| 19:11.31 |
cad65 |
here's what
i'm getting - http://www.scipisc.com/view_image.php?id=181 |
| 19:11.44 |
brlcad |
right, that
much I know.. but there at least used to be (or at least I remember
there being many years ago) a way to point the second buffer to an
arbitrary sdl_surface so when you do the flip, it becomes
primary |
| 19:12.09 |
brlcad |
cad65: it's
rather obvious you're using web chat ;) |
| 19:12.18 |
Maloeran |
Very neat, I
guess it must have been dropped, most unfortuantely |
| 19:12.35 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: I
bet you can still do it |
| 19:12.36 |
cad65 |
brlcad:
oh |
| 19:12.37 |
cad65 |
lol |
| 19:12.48 |
brlcad |
but probably
not through the public SDL api |
| 19:13.13 |
brlcad |
you'd
probably have to set some struct values on your own |
| 19:13.14 |
brlcad |
because the
basic operation should be doable |
| 19:13.18 |
cad65 |
so how do I
get help on my irc client connection issue? its only to
freenode |
| 19:13.19 |
Maloeran |
I see, does
SDL have a hidden API or must I hack the source to expose its
static functions? |
| 19:13.25 |
Maloeran |
This is
messy |
| 19:13.27 |
brlcad |
dunno, maybe
they do a lot more to manage the screen surface these
days |
| 19:13.56 |
cad65 |
i am
connected just fine to the mozilla client |
| 19:14.13 |
Maloeran |
Oh well, it's
just annoying to seriously lose performance due to SDL when getting
above 100fps |
| 19:14.16 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: not
exactly hidden .. i mean you'd just have to read thier sources to
see what they do during sdl_flip to determine what you'd need to
update in the associated screen to get it to work |
| 19:14.31 |
brlcad |
cad65: can
you ping irc.freenode.net? |
| 19:14.54 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
ahh.. you're complaining about 100+fps only? bahhh. :) |
| 19:14.59 |
cad65 |
let me
check |
| 19:15.19 |
cad65 |
brlcad: since
I can connect to different servers, shouldn't I be able to connect
to freenode as well? |
| 19:15.30 |
brlcad |
cad65: of
course not, it's a different server :P |
| 19:15.47 |
cad65 |
well, no
problem with pinging |
| 19:15.59 |
cad65 |
oh...okay
(irc rookie here) |
| 19:16.02 |
Maloeran |
Well, brlcad,
I lose a 10% at around 30fps... and I lose 50% due to SDL at
200fps! |
| 19:16.14 |
cad65 |
so the ping
was successful |
| 19:16.21 |
cad65 |
are there any
irc moderators in here? |
| 19:16.33 |
brlcad |
cad65: you
mean network or channel? |
| 19:16.43 |
brlcad |
cad65: you do
realize you're in a cad channel? :) |
| 19:17.07 |
brlcad |
cad65: you
might want to try a different port |
| 19:17.21 |
cad65 |
hrm |
| 19:17.24 |
cad65 |
interesting |
| 19:17.46 |
cad65 |
and a port
could block one server to my irc client and not another
one? |
| 19:17.56 |
brlcad |
sure, why
not |
| 19:18.25 |
brlcad |
not likely,
but possible |
| 19:18.58 |
cad65 |
darn...I
can't switch rooms in this web interface |
| 19:19.17 |
brlcad |
yep, it's
configured that way on purpose |
| 19:19.36 |
brlcad |
otherwise you
could cause all sorts of trouble and we'd be liable for problems
you cause |
| 19:20.07 |
brlcad |
that web
interface is intended for interactive discussion about
BRL-CAD |
| 19:20.29 |
brlcad |
how you got
to it as a general means for freenode network support is beyond
me |
| 19:21.01 |
cad65 |
lol - I just
found it |
| 19:21.04 |
cad65 |
sorry to
bother you |
| 19:21.07 |
brlcad |
for starters,
you could try a better irc client than chatzilla |
| 19:21.28 |
brlcad |
something
that might give you better output status |
| 19:25.31 |
Maloeran |
:)
Nice |
| 19:30.27 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@wireless-197-79.uchicago.edu) |
| 19:30.59 |
dli |
which command
to rescale? |
| 19:42.39 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h):
Add vector class, with very initial support for simd
operations. |
| 19:43.29 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Include vector class for use
by brep intersection routines |
| 19:44.49 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add compilation of
brep_test program |
| 19:46.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: Add brep_test program
for simple unit testing |
| 19:46.32 |
Maloeran |
I think I'll
never understand why people make a class or a struct for a mere
"vector" rather than an array, especially to use SIMD
instructions |
| 19:50.37 |
Maloeran |
i.e. If you
have 4 packed vectors of x,y,z, you could often operate on the 12
floats with just 3 instructions, try to do nicely that with 4
structs or classes |
| 19:52.21 |
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| 20:10.07 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 20:18.38 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
primarily for type transparency and operator
overloading |
| 20:20.17 |
brlcad |
so you're not
actually tied to particular simd types, and don't need to resort to
*_add() functions where a + b might provide cleaner
code |
| 20:21.01 |
brlcad |
if you don't
care about or don't leverage those two features, then yes -- they
are completely unnecessary overhead |
| 20:22.05 |
clock_ |
leverage that
is a word used often in PR :) |
| 20:22.25 |
brlcad |
as are lots
of other words, your point? :) |
| 20:23.10 |
brlcad |
i mean if you
made a vector class and still had a ->add() method.. that would
be a bit silly, and doesn't utilize the type transparency
benefit |
| 20:24.46 |
Maloeran |
Indeed
brlcad, it just really gets in the way of optimisation, especially
for SIMD |
| 20:25.07 |
brlcad |
not when it's
done right |
| 20:25.19 |
brlcad |
it "should"
expand out into exactly the same inline'd calls |
| 20:25.28 |
brlcad |
when it's
implemented correctly |
| 20:25.44 |
brlcad |
no
object/function calls, no evil vtable lookups, etc |
| 20:26.27 |
Maloeran |
Sure sure...
I'm just saying I may want to load a x,y,z vector and the x of the
following vector into one __m128 |
| 20:26.33 |
brlcad |
it the coder
doesn't make a mistake and the compiler does it's just, you can end
up with the same result, but simplified maintainable
code |
| 20:28.13 |
brlcad |
what you
suggest isn't orthogonal .. you could write a routine that was
overloaded to do exactly that that expands to the same
operations |
| 20:28.32 |
brlcad |
if you can
write a macro/inline for it at least, there's a way |
| 20:28.54 |
brlcad |
just with a
class, you can avoid the macro/function syntax for entire classes
of problems |
| 20:29.34 |
brlcad |
that along
with automatic initialization and deallocations if any are really
the only reasons of value, imho |
| 20:30.18 |
brlcad |
and there are
plenty of codes where that just doesn't matter, like if the library
itself is going to act as an abstraction layer and hide the fact
that it's doing sse under the hood |
| 20:30.19 |
Maloeran |
I recognize
the general value, it just seems hardly compatible with low-level
SIMD optimisation to my eyes |
| 20:30.57 |
brlcad |
it's not a
matter of compatibility, it's just different syntax .. you end up
with the same assembly for what I"m referring to |
| 20:31.51 |
brlcad |
for the
implementations where you don't, and there's some penalty (like
vtables), I'd completely agree .. that's a bad idea, a very bad
idea |
| 20:32.08 |
Maloeran |
Of course so,
but perhaps we are not seeing the same kind of low-level SIMD
optimisations... |
| 20:32.28 |
Maloeran |
I mean, I
have mixed floats and pointers in the same __m128 ;) |
| 20:33.01 |
brlcad |
so long as
you're taking about lines of code being written, then we are
talking about the same optimizations |
| 20:33.38 |
brlcad |
all that
changes it what functions you write for your data types |
| 20:33.47 |
brlcad |
it expands to
the same operations |
| 20:34.54 |
brlcad |
and those
operations can be whatever you want -- packing and unpacking floats
and pointers, maintaining states or not, doing whatever |
| 20:35.28 |
Maloeran |
Then you end
up doing a class API which is identical to the SIMD
intrinsics |
| 20:35.31 |
brlcad |
its JUST a
difference in syntax/wrapping, like if you wrote all of your simd
operations using a macro |
| 20:37.25 |
Maloeran |
Right, I
agree of course, I guess the only point is to map some common
instructions to overloaded operators, and expose an interface
similar to intrinsics for all the rest |
| 20:37.27 |
brlcad |
it could be
identical or not, depends on how you write it -- in general there
are common patterns |
| 20:38.35 |
brlcad |
right, that
is really the only point -- though once you have that interface,
you very likely can translate it to other SIMD implementations too
with no change to the code that used those classes |
| 20:40.06 |
brlcad |
in practice,
I don't find that latter to be as much of a benefit as others
claim, but some have zealotry on the encapsulation
benefit |
| 20:40.29 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, I
noticed |
| 20:40.57 |
Maloeran |
You could
write an interface to wrap the original SIMD intrinsics just as
well, anyhow |
| 20:41.57 |
brlcad |
yep, you can
do the same thing in C |
| 20:42.21 |
brlcad |
only
difference of wrapping in a class is operator overloading and
automatic init |
| 20:43.46 |
brlcad |
that was the
main/only point from the start -- type transparency and operator
overloading .. if you don't care about that or wouldn't use those
features much, then it does diminish the benefits |
| 20:44.26 |
dli |
can I move a
part (.r)? like linear motion, or rotation |
| 20:45.16 |
brlcad |
I just found
it odd that you'd "never understand why people make a class" ..
their reasoning (whether you like or agree with it) seems perfectly
understandable |
| 20:45.49 |
brlcad |
dli: tra and
rot commands |
| 20:46.49 |
brlcad |
sry, orot
and/or rotobj |
| 20:46.59 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, it
does not seem reasonable to me when one needs all the low-level
flexibility of SIMD intrinsics to get proper
performance |
| 20:47.20 |
Maloeran |
SIMD
intrinsics are a large interface, to makign a class with all these
capabilities is a lot of code which serves little actual
purpose |
| 20:47.32 |
Maloeran |
"so making" a
class with |
| 20:47.53 |
Maloeran |
Just my
personal view on the matter of course |
| 20:47.53 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
heh, you keep making the leap to the encapsulation in a class
impacting performance and that's hogwash when done
correctly |
| 20:48.10 |
Maloeran |
Of course so,
but it's still a lot of code with very little purpose! |
| 20:48.12 |
brlcad |
it sounds
like you just don't agree, and that's fine with me -- your
idea |
| 20:48.13 |
dli |
brlcad, " sed
" says object is not solid |
| 20:48.42 |
brlcad |
dli: sed is
to edit primitives, you have to go into object edit
mode |
| 20:48.54 |
brlcad |
oed command
or matrix edit via gui |
| 20:48.54 |
Maloeran |
I don't
really like seeing 1000 lines of code just to be a full and exact
wrapper around something which would have done the job as well.
Anyhow... |
| 20:49.40 |
brlcad |
only because
it rarely is a full and exact wrapper |
| 20:49.52 |
brlcad |
but that's
also just to wrap one interface |
| 20:49.56 |
brlcad |
throw in two
more |
| 20:50.12 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, then
it serves a purpose |
| 20:50.46 |
brlcad |
i've seen
some people prefer it just for the syntactic sugar
though |
| 20:51.02 |
brlcad |
being able to
add two things using +-/ instead of some add(), etc |
| 20:51.29 |
brlcad |
regardless of
needing a pack_pointer_with_float() or whatever other
tricks |
| 20:51.45 |
brlcad |
it keeps the
simple simple |
| 20:51.56 |
brlcad |
dli: have you
seen the quick reference cheat sheet? |
| 20:52.03 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf |
| 20:52.22 |
dli |
brlcad, yes,
and thr trifold one, very puzzling |
| 20:52.24 |
brlcad |
on the second
page on the back in the first column are the commands related to
editing |
| 20:53.01 |
brlcad |
dli: yeah,
it's not meant to be instructional -- it's informative to the
modelers that know most of the operations but can't remember the
command name or args, etc |
| 20:54.13 |
brlcad |
dli: oed is
likely the command that you want, and is rather tricky to
understand at first with the left and right side
business |
| 20:55.36 |
brlcad |
say you have
some region named region.r and in there is a combination comb.c
with two primitives prim1.s and prim2.s .. to use oed to edit the
matrix over comb.c, you'd use oed /region.r
comb.c/prim1.s |
| 20:56.19 |
brlcad |
to rotate all
instances of region.r, you'd use oed /
region.r/comb.c/prim1.s |
| 20:56.46 |
dli |
brlcad, I
just want to rotate the whole region.r |
| 20:56.47 |
brlcad |
you have to
specify all the way down to a primitive so that it's explicit as to
which coordinate axis you are editing about |
| 20:57.49 |
brlcad |
you have to
anchor the edit from a known point -- all primitives have a defined
center and coordinate axis orientation |
| 20:58.25 |
dli |
brlcad, let
me play with it a little |
| 20:59.06 |
brlcad |
the second
example, oed / region.r/comb.c/prim1.s, sounds like what you
want |
| 20:59.31 |
brlcad |
if you're
just going to translate/rotate, then the primitive doesn't really
matter, pick any path down through the region |
| 20:59.50 |
brlcad |
er, it
matters for rotations.. but not translations |
| 21:04.16 |
dli |
brlcad, oed
path must starts from the current showing region? this is hard for
me, when the design is complex, and I want to move one
part |
| 21:06.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:08.11 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 21:08.37 |
dli |
brlcad, I
found the "Matrix Selector", easier now |
| 21:12.06 |
brlcad |
ahh, glad to
hear it |
| 21:12.33 |
brlcad |
for what it's
worth, oed has little to nothing to do with what is currently
showing |
| 21:13.12 |
brlcad |
e object.r,
oed / object.r/and/path/to/primitive.s |
| 21:13.52 |
brlcad |
which is what
matrix selection does, though first showing you which object's are
displayed, then a list of the paths to primtives |
| 21:14.26 |
brlcad |
so that it
can build the "oed / object/path/to/prim" for you |
| 21:31.35 |
*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 21:33.12 |
IriX64 |
most
beautifull thing, I've ever seen , took all night but it's
gorgeous. |
| 21:33.56 |
IriX64 |
798.70
seconds. |
| 21:34.43 |
IriX64 |
kudos to the
BRL-CAD team. |
| 21:36.18 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, I'd
really like to show you what my little machine did :) |
| 21:41.05 |
clock_ |
brlcad: have
you seen the Ronja model? |
| 21:41.36 |
clock_ |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_3.png |
| 21:41.47 |
clock_ |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_2.png |
| 21:54.17 |
brlcad |
clock_: ooh,
that's nice! |
| 21:55.12 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:55.56 |
*** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) |
| 21:56.08 |
lg_ |
hi |
| 21:57.17 |
IriX64 |
regards |
| 21:57.42 |
lg_ |
back to
brlworld... |
| 21:57.54 |
IriX64 |
from? |
| 21:58.22 |
lg_ |
;-) from
offlineland |
| 21:59.48 |
lg_ |
reboot? wow,
brlcad is not pure unix software anymore... |
| 22:00.10 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
thanks |
| 22:00.13 |
IriX64 |
define "pure
unix" |
| 22:00.15 |
brlcad |
lg_: he
reboots for his own benefit |
| 22:00.22 |
brlcad |
nothing to do
with brl-cad :) |
| 22:00.29 |
clock_ |
brlcad: of
course I also have a video of rotating model |
| 22:00.35 |
IriX64 |
quite right
sorry should have mentioned that. |
| 22:00.39 |
clock_ |
brlcad: but I
think last time you were not able to play |
| 22:01.17 |
lg_ |
;-) |
| 22:01.51 |
IriX64 |
lg_ I have
yet to finish my cup. |
| 22:02.33 |
lg_ |
well, i just
finished two beers, its a bit late here in turkey |
| 22:02.51 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 22:02.58 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 22:03.56 |
IriX64 |
nei eha
boh? |
| 22:04.00 |
lg_ |
but only
modeling a cup is mentioned in the manuals, so i was on my
own |
| 22:04.33 |
brlcad |
clock_: is
there a really good installation picture that showcases ronja and
matches the model closely? |
| 22:04.42 |
IriX64 |
ha how to
model a beer, lets see you start wiith hops or wheat ;) |
| 22:06.41 |
lg_ |
guess it is a
union of both... and as there are material properties to take care
of, type will be region... r beer.r u hops + wheat |
| 22:06.42 |
IriX64 |
haha
right. |
| 22:06.44 |
*** join/#brlcad rdenatale
(n=rick@166-82-49-174.quickclick.ctc.net) |
| 22:09.34 |
rdenatale |
hello all,
does this channel welcome modeling questions from
newbies? |
| 22:10.03 |
lg_ |
ok, all
newbies say helloooo... ;-) |
| 22:10.51 |
rdenatale |
I'm just
starting to use brl-cad and I've got a bit of a conceptual block as
to using transformations with nested combinations |
| 22:15.20 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
no |
| 22:20.48 |
rdenatale |
Let's say
that I'm modeling an instrument panel. I've got a combination for
the basic panel itself which combines primitives to make the right
shape... |
| 22:21.22 |
rdenatale |
... Then I've
got a subassembly consisting of a raised subpanel with a few
identical switches. ... |
| 22:23.11 |
rdenatale |
... the
subassembly in this case is another combination with a primitive
shape for the subpanel, and references to a combo for the switch
which combines primitives and combos making up... |
| 22:23.28 |
rdenatale |
... the
switch handle, a nut, and a washer.... |
| 22:24.07 |
rdenatale |
... Now I
think that I want to build each of these subpart combos and
primitives at their own origins, and then... |
| 22:24.53 |
rdenatale |
... combine
them at the higher level with a transformation matrix to position
each subpart within the larger part... |
| 22:25.41 |
rdenatale |
... but I'm
not sure what's the best way to do this with mged, since it only
seems to provide first-class support for positining primitive parts
and not combos... |
| 22:25.47 |
rdenatale |
... Am I
missing something? |
| 22:34.58 |
IriX64 |
erf... again,
think back when I first came here ;) |
| 22:35.36 |
brlcad |
heh "no" ..
funny clock |
| 22:35.56 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
yes, questions always welcome.. response depends on audience and
time of day ;) |
| 22:36.52 |
rdenatale |
thanks
brlcad. |
| 22:37.25 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
you can do what you suggest, applying arbitrary transformation
matrices anywhere in the hierarchy |
| 22:37.50 |
IriX64 |
btw brlcad:
if I hit clear and display in the geometry editor, doesn't clear
the frame buffer. |
| 22:38.39 |
brlcad |
to do this
via the gui, you usually will display the geometry, then select
Matrix Edit on the Edit menu .. select the
assembly/combination/non-primitive object that you wish to apply a
matrix over, then a path to a reference coordinate
system |
| 22:38.51 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
that's intentional |
| 22:38.56 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 22:39.02 |
brlcad |
framebuffer
has it's own concept of clearing |
| 22:39.26 |
IriX64 |
true,
raytrace control panel allows for it so no biggie. |
| 22:39.26 |
brlcad |
though it
wouldn't be an unreasonable feature request to combine them in the
geometry editor |
| 22:39.38 |
IriX64 |
your
choice. |
| 22:39.47 |
brlcad |
actually it's
yours ;) |
| 22:39.53 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:40.49 |
brlcad |
if it's
something you'd like to see added, or for any feature request
really .. it helps to make the request at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640805 |
| 22:40.57 |
brlcad |
else it get
forgotten between releases |
| 22:41.17 |
IriX64 |
ty i'll visit
and add to favorites. |
| 22:41.31 |
rdenatale |
brlcad: I
don't see Matrix Edit on the edit menu (I'm using 7.8.3). I only
see matrix selection and that only lets me select
primitives. |
| 22:41.32 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
the command line way to do what you suggest is the oed command,
which has tricky semantics to get used to at first, but will
eventually make sense ;) |
| 22:43.05 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
sorry .. my impreciseness |
| 22:43.08 |
rdenatale |
brlcad: yeah
I saw oedit, but I can't figure out what path_lhs and path_rhs
are |
| 22:43.37 |
brlcad |
it is Matrix
Selection -- the first primitive selection dialog is your anchor
coordinate axis (which mostly only matters for
rotations) |
| 22:43.59 |
brlcad |
select any
one of those that include your combination/region |
| 22:44.27 |
brlcad |
you'll then
get another dialog where you can select where to place the matrix
along that path |
| 22:45.32 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
say you have a 'panel' assembly that has a 'button.r' and
'switch.r', each containing a 'cyl.s' primitive |
| 22:45.55 |
brlcad |
say you want
to translate the switch.r .. |
| 22:46.42 |
brlcad |
you'd "e
panel" or "e switch.r" or use the geometry browser and select one
of those two .. say for simplicity you "e panel" |
| 22:48.03 |
rdenatale |
brlcad: do I
need these to be regions? The problem is that my end product is
going to be an stl file (for stereolithograpy) ... |
| 22:48.08 |
brlcad |
to apply the
transformation via the gui, you select the matrix selection menu
option, then select any one of the lines that has switch.r in it ..
the primitive only matters as a coordinate axis reference point ..
so say you select /panel/switch.r/cyl.c |
| 22:48.32 |
rdenatale |
... and as I
understand the conversion to stl, it makes each region into a
separate part. |
| 22:49.03 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
ideally, yes -- at some point in the modeling process,
regions/parts should be created, and groups/assemblies should be
built up from those regions |
| 22:49.16 |
brlcad |
if you define
no regions, there will be one created for you |
| 22:50.06 |
brlcad |
which for
something like the converter, would mean the whole object just ends
up as one object .. and stl files can only have one object per file
anyways ;) |
| 22:51.26 |
brlcad |
to complete
the example, after selecting /panel/switch.r/cyl.c .. you'd then
select switch.r to apply a transformation to the switch.r being
used in panel |
| 22:51.44 |
brlcad |
that
corresponds to the oed command of: oed /panel
switch.r/cyl.c |
| 22:52.26 |
brlcad |
if you wanted
to just translate some object .. you'd do something like "e
switch.r" and "oed / switch.r/cyl.s |
| 22:53.01 |
rdenatale |
brlcad: so
does path_rhs have to start with either a region or a primitive
part? ... |
| 22:53.45 |
brlcad |
it starts
with the name of the thing you want to translate .. some
combination/region/assembly/part/group object |
| 22:54.07 |
brlcad |
but it must
include the path all the way down to some primitive so it has a
coordinate axis to work with |
| 22:54.32 |
rdenatale |
I've got a
tree like panel.c/switch.c/... and if I enter oed panel.c switch.c
it says something like "Error: unable to find matching solid
part" |
| 22:54.47 |
brlcad |
that is
understandably confusing.. long been a consideration to make more
transparent, but there are legacy support issues for the expert
modelers |
| 22:55.34 |
brlcad |
right, that's
an error.. it will be something like oed /panel.c
switch.c/some/path/to/a/primitive |
| 22:56.27 |
rdenatale |
brlcad: okay,
do I understand this right if I do oed panel.c
switch.c/someprimitive_in_switch.c it will still work on the matrix
which transforms switch.c relative to panel.c ??? |
| 22:57.57 |
brlcad |
if I
understand you right myself, yes ;) |
| 22:58.06 |
brlcad |
that will
only transform the switch.c being used in panel.c |
| 22:58.54 |
brlcad |
if you wanted
to move all switch.c's, you'd oed /
switch.c/someprimitive_in_switch.s (.c suffix is for csg
combinations, .s is for solids aka primitives) |
| 22:59.19 |
brlcad |
the slash on
the LHS is of course significant |
| 22:59.43 |
rdenatale |
brlcad:
indicating the root I guess |
| 22:59.50 |
dli |
brlcad, can I
just move one .c instead of all parts? |
| 23:01.04 |
brlcad |
dli: yes, you
can do that by either creating a named reference to the .c (which
amounts to creating a group that includes just that .c along with a
matrix transform) or you apply the matrix directly in the assembly
where it's being used |
| 23:01.56 |
dli |
brlcad,
thanks |
| 23:02.50 |
rdenatale |
brlcad: so I
think I understand but I'm still having trouble. I have to go
fairly deep into that switch to get to a primitive... |
| 23:05.19 |
rdenatale |
The
shallowest primitive is in
switch.c/switch_nut_and_washer.c/washer.s ... |
| 23:08.57 |
rdenatale |
brlcad:
thanks, I think you got me started. As I said I've got another
problem now, but my wife is pressing me to prepare dinner, so I'll
likely come back later. |
| 23:08.59 |
brlcad |
rdenatale:
sort of, yes indicating a root .. if you think of all paths sort of
like filesystem paths where to modify a *directory* in your root
(e.g. etc), you have to specify a file contained therein (e.g.
/etc/passwd) .. and to |
| 23:09.21 |
brlcad |
if your paths
are long, it might be easier to use the gui for
selection |
| 23:09.27 |
brlcad |
good luck
with dinner :) |
| 23:10.39 |
brlcad |
dli: oh,
third option is to copy that .c since all copies are shallow when
using cp |
| 23:11.59 |
dli |
brlcad,
thanks |
| 23:13.31 |
Maloeran |
Hum, dinner.
That reminds me I haven't eaten a thing today yet |
| 23:14.08 |
brlcad |
(looking for
capable developers) |
| 23:14.10 |
dli |
brlcad, no :(
I am just a n00b user |
| 23:14.23 |
brlcad |
hey, nothing
wrong with that ;) |
| 23:14.34 |
dli |
brlcad, I use
qcad for 2d, and brlcad for 3d |
| 23:14.44 |
brlcad |
sweet |
| 23:15.30 |
brlcad |
feel free to
shovel in the feedback or make requests on the sf.net trackers ..
they do get paid attention to |
| 23:19.42 |
*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) |
| 00:22.18 |
Maloeran |
Please cvs
commit when done hax0ring the c0dez, Erik :) |
| 00:43.52 |
deltazap |
alright, i
think it's about time that i came out of idling and introduced
myself you you all :P |
| 00:45.11 |
brlcad |
howdy
deltazap |
| 00:45.23 |
brlcad |
feel free to
lurk as long as you like ;) |
| 00:45.26 |
deltazap |
hah |
| 00:45.54 |
brlcad |
kudos on the
name ;) |
| 00:46.06 |
brlcad |
even if you
do spell it wrong :D |
| 00:46.13 |
deltazap |
my normal
name was taken |
| 00:46.57 |
deltazap |
:O |
| 00:47.05 |
deltazap |
it's
phonetically correct :P |
| 00:47.12 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 00:47.13 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 00:47.49 |
deltazap |
i'm an MechE
at the University of South Florida |
| 00:48.06 |
brlcad |
ahh,
fun |
| 00:48.13 |
brlcad |
party school,
eh? :) |
| 00:48.25 |
deltazap |
i started
working with a robotics group about 2 weeks ago and, surprise!,
they don't have anything for cad software |
| 00:48.34 |
deltazap |
more like
farm school :P |
| 00:48.44 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 00:48.54 |
deltazap |
you must have
us confused with FSU or UF |
| 00:48.57 |
brlcad |
i just
associate all things florida with a party |
| 00:49.02 |
deltazap |
haha |
| 00:49.42 |
brlcad |
probably
because i'm usually in miami or panama city or eglin .. good
stuff |
| 00:50.14 |
deltazap |
i'm
originally from the melbourne area, just south of Cape
Canaveral |
| 00:50.51 |
deltazap |
the panhandle
isn't as nice as central florida from what i hear |
| 00:51.30 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
not |
| 00:52.15 |
deltazap |
so, i was on
a quest for (useable) cad software for the mac when i came across
brl cad |
| 00:52.51 |
brlcad |
well you
should be forewarned that depending on your (pre)conceptions of
CAD, this may or may not be what you're looking for |
| 00:53.32 |
deltazap |
yeah, i've
inched into it a bit, backed off, looked at it a bit
more |
| 00:53.40 |
brlcad |
we're by far
the best/only open source solid modeling CAD software in production
use, decades of development invested, but we don't do it all by a
long shot |
| 00:54.14 |
brlcad |
we're
specifically short on capable developers if you know of any
;) |
| 00:54.15 |
deltazap |
it's
interesting how brl cad approaches the problem |
| 00:54.56 |
brlcad |
I presume
you've read the Overview and the Industry Diagram, perhaps the
Intro to MGED as well? |
| 00:55.14 |
deltazap |
heh, don't
get to stick my head outside of our engineering labs long enough to
talk to many people |
| 00:55.17 |
deltazap |
yeah, i
have |
| 00:57.22 |
brlcad |
the industry
diagram in particular should give a sense for how we currently fit
into the big picture -- e.g. AutoCAD is CADD software and our
overlap with them is rather limited, similarly BRL-CAD has limited
CAM facilities other than basic modeling, representation, and
conversion support |
| 00:58.34 |
brlcad |
but if solid
modeling is your need, performing analyses, computing metrics like
weight and volumes, or programmatic purposes, geometry engine
representations, data manipulations, CSG implicity geometry .. then
you're golden ;) |
| 00:59.03 |
brlcad |
what are you
looking to do? |
| 01:01.11 |
deltazap |
right now,
just modeling so that i can show people my designs |
| 01:01.47 |
deltazap |
something
just to record designs since the lab has nothing at all |
| 01:01.56 |
brlcad |
got
it |
| 01:02.08 |
brlcad |
for that, the
mged tutorials are going to be essential |
| 01:02.45 |
brlcad |
mged has a
lot of good aspects like a powerful command line, but user-friendly
it is not, nor is it a discoverable interface |
| 01:03.35 |
brlcad |
a known
limitation that is being worked on, but a limitation regardless
that requires lots of experience and expert knowledge to utilize
effectively |
| 01:04.28 |
brlcad |
once you do
master it, our best modelers can generally be just as proficient at
most tasks as they are in other CAD systems, even faster at doing
some things, but it takes a while to get to that point |
| 01:05.59 |
brlcad |
but once you
do, things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png
do become possible |
| 01:07.07 |
deltazap |
holy
smokes! |
| 01:13.01 |
deltazap |
i'm used to
command line interfaces |
| 01:13.33 |
deltazap |
unlike most
mech e's, i have quite a bit of computer experience :P |
| 01:14.58 |
Maloeran |
Very nice
brlcad, how come I don't have access to these models ;) |
| 01:15.13 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
:) |
| 01:15.40 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: you
have access to some of those, and some considerably
better |
| 01:16.53 |
Maloeran |
I do? The
only real engineering model I have around is truck_bots, though I
didn't look very far |
| 01:17.06 |
brlcad |
you just
don't know who to ask, or what exactly to ask for .. |
| 01:17.24 |
brlcad |
none of the
best models are public releasable |
| 01:17.44 |
brlcad |
even that
model isn't, but a picture of it is ;) |
| 01:19.33 |
``Erik |
mal: I
commited as I was doing it. that's the way to do it |
| 01:20.39 |
``Erik |
*look* oh
yeah, the model brlcad pasted ain't public release, that the image
is public release has caused issues recently |
| 01:21.23 |
``Erik |
mal: I fixed
the log2 check issue and made the rays per second a little more
readable... |
| 01:21.24 |
Maloeran |
Yes, one
could perhaps guess where the fuel tanks are, and the
ammo |
| 01:21.45 |
Maloeran |
I didn't
receive email notification about these changes, strange |
| 01:22.05 |
``Erik |
heh, one
could look at public release photographs of the vehicle and figure
that out... but some people are stupid |
| 01:22.57 |
``Erik |
I got loads
of python errors when I commited |
| 01:23.07 |
``Erik |
which I
assume is the mail agent |
| 01:23.15 |
Maloeran |
cool. |
| 01:23.53 |
``Erik |
and I ran
around showing the current rfdemo to anyone who might give half a
flying fuck heheheh :D |
| 01:23.59 |
``Erik |
that thing is
just smokin', dude |
| 01:24.18 |
Maloeran |
Thanks
:) |
| 01:24.41 |
``Erik |
on the quad
opteron running fbsd, a steady 30fps at 1024x768 |
| 01:25.02 |
``Erik |
on the
octo-opteron running linux, it bounced between 25 and 40 fps
erratically, mostly staying around 35fps |
| 01:25.27 |
Maloeran |
With or
without transparency? |
| 01:25.48 |
Maloeran |
I never
remember what I leave as default for rfdemo when I commit, toggling
a lot |
| 01:25.51 |
``Erik |
without |
| 01:26.04 |
``Erik |
10fps on the
12 core itanium running linux |
| 01:26.05 |
Maloeran |
Ah. It's
80fps in 1024x78 on my 8 cores |
| 01:26.11 |
``Erik |
5fps on a
dual core g5 running osX.4 |
| 01:26.31 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
fortunately, even that particular image is getting published in a
book, and was recently re-approved for release via my jmum
presentation |
| 01:26.31 |
Maloeran |
Ah well, no
SSE there |
| 01:26.34 |
``Erik |
<--
probably experiencing network issues, was running it remote X over
100baseT |
| 01:27.10 |
brlcad |
along with a
slew of other nifty pictures... |
| 01:27.10 |
Maloeran |
Is Lee
pleased enough, overall? |
| 01:27.17 |
``Erik |
heh, brlcad,
sab bc refused to sign off on a pub with that pic... once the pic
was removed, she signed... |
| 01:27.34 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: he
was yelling your name along with various profanities..
dunno... |
| 01:27.58 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 01:28.33 |
``Erik |
when I
stopped by his office at 5pm and told him to log into that machine
and run it, once he got over the foibles of remote X and his fucked
up workstation, he was extremely happy, it made his day |
| 01:29.29 |
``Erik |
of course,
his day wasn't exactly a shining beacon of awesomeness, I mean,
chock full of meetings involving nontechnical people maching
technical decisions that impact him, heh |
| 01:29.41 |
``Erik |
which is par
for the course these days :/ |
| 01:30.20 |
Maloeran |
:/ It still
makes my day as well to hear that some people far away appreciate
the software |
| 01:30.34 |
``Erik |
tell ya
what |
| 01:30.46 |
``Erik |
it impressed
me enough to run around and show lee and brlcad... |
| 01:30.46 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/demo01-ms.avi
- Transparency walkthrough of the terribly heavy galleon model,
60mb, if anyone is interested |
| 01:30.48 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 01:30.53 |
Maloeran |
:D |
| 01:31.08 |
``Erik |
and brlcad
was getting 40fps from the quad opteron, opposed to my
30 |
| 01:31.13 |
``Erik |
better
networking, I guess :/ |
| 01:31.28 |
Maloeran |
Or http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi
for flat shading demo, if you want to have a look |
| 01:32.28 |
deltazap |
well, thanks
guys :) |
| 01:32.38 |
deltazap |
i'm sure i'll
have many more questions in the future |
| 01:33.03 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
can't you encode an mpeg2 or mpeg4 somewhere? :) |
| 01:33.25 |
brlcad |
and dear
ghod.. that's a damn big video file :) |
| 01:33.58 |
``Erik |
those're
mpeg-4, brlcad |
| 01:34.06 |
``Erik |
he just named
'em... "funny" |
| 01:34.22 |
``Erik |
(avi is the
uncompressed layout, mpeg4 is the compression algo... vid
compression is weird like that) |
| 01:34.36 |
``Erik |
be like if he
named an mp3 blah.pcm |
| 01:34.41 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's all
msmpeg4-v2 so it even runs on windows out of the box |
| 01:35.07 |
Maloeran |
Sorry about
the huge files, any loss of quality is really visible, so this is
almost loseless |
| 01:35.25 |
Maloeran |
( I have
loseless versions too if you prefer :) ) |
| 01:35.32 |
``Erik |
2.4 gigs a
pop? D: |
| 01:35.33 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 01:37.07 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, I still
have that, but also x264 loseless compressed videos ; but I don't
know how that runs on most players |
| 01:37.24 |
deltazap |
so, are most
pepole in here developers for brl cad? |
| 01:37.25 |
``Erik |
<-- uses
vlc, it does everything |
| 01:37.32 |
``Erik |
only a couple
of us, delta |
| 01:38.02 |
deltazap |
``Erik: and
everyone else is an enthusiast? ;) |
| 01:38.20 |
louipc |
hobbist |
| 01:39.14 |
``Erik |
brlcad and
myself are brl-cad developers, maloeran is developing a piece that
will be integrated into BRL-CAD in about a month |
| 01:39.17 |
``Erik |
*look* others
are former devs, enthusiests, interested parties, etc |
| 01:39.23 |
``Erik |
and bots,
can't forget the bots :) |
| 01:39.36 |
deltazap |
of course not
:) |
| 01:39.50 |
louipc |
oh so that's
who's publishing this channel eh |
| 01:39.51 |
deltazap |
they're a
staple of any irc room |
| 01:40.01 |
``Erik |
channel, not
room |
| 01:40.04 |
``Erik |
quit talking
like an aoler |
| 01:40.05 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 01:40.08 |
deltazap |
hah |
| 01:40.13 |
louipc |
omg
lol |
| 01:40.24 |
deltazap |
hai2u |
| 01:40.29 |
``Erik |
A/S/L!!!!~??! |
| 01:40.40 |
Maloeran |
lololol!!1 |
| 01:41.15 |
deltazap |
brlcad
mentioned being able to do analysis with models that you build with
brl cad, what sort of analysis is (publically)
available? |
| 01:41.15 |
``Erik |
(heh, hai2u
as in goatse/lemonparty/tubgirl grade shock image
site?) |
| 01:41.57 |
deltazap |
``Erik: not
as much, just aoler mentality |
| 01:42.02 |
``Erik |
volume/weight
analysis, exposed area, ... |
| 01:42.25 |
``Erik |
a disturbing
amount is "publically available", but saying the extent is not
:/ |
| 01:42.41 |
deltazap |
heh |
| 01:42.43 |
louipc |
ballistics |
| 01:42.46 |
louipc |
non? |
| 01:42.59 |
brlcad |
``Erik: er, I
meant an mpeg4 not using the divx encoding |
| 01:43.02 |
``Erik |
<-- been
kinda interested in doing things like optic analysis and mechanical
stress/strain analysis as public type activities |
| 01:43.23 |
deltazap |
mechanical
stress/strain analysis would be awesome |
| 01:43.45 |
louipc |
that would be
neat |
| 01:43.45 |
deltazap |
that would be
the one that i'm most interested in since that's related to my
field |
| 01:43.48 |
``Erik |
BRL-CAD's
primary funding comes from ballistic type analysis, yes, but that
actual work is done in another program... brlcad just provides the
geometry information |
| 01:44.04 |
louipc |
deltazap:
you're doing robots? that's awesome |
| 01:44.05 |
deltazap |
had to work
with ansys today for one of my classes |
| 01:44.08 |
louipc |
ah
ok |
| 01:44.16 |
deltazap |
what a
pain |
| 01:44.24 |
brlcad |
deltazap: the
other devs drop in from time to time, or live on the mailing
lists |
| 01:44.31 |
deltazap |
interesting |
| 01:44.32 |
brlcad |
or just
commit and cause problems when they can ;) |
| 01:44.37 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:44.38 |
louipc |
hah |
| 01:44.43 |
deltazap |
louipc: yes
:) unmanned systems |
| 01:44.45 |
``Erik |
you mean bob?
:D *duck* |
| 01:44.48 |
deltazap |
haha |
| 01:45.00 |
brlcad |
i think bob
tried to join the channel twice |
| 01:45.10 |
brlcad |
never got it
to work |
| 01:45.27 |
``Erik |
I mean the
causing problems part... ain't his fault, though, he was working
the windows port and not focused on portability |
| 01:45.28 |
deltazap |
our group is
actually sponsored by ARL for some of our projects |
| 01:45.31 |
Maloeran |
Bob from
Survice? |
| 01:45.38 |
louipc |
deltazap:
well as I see it, that's what a robot is. It bugs me when they call
those RC doodads robots like on Robot Wars |
| 01:45.40 |
brlcad |
is there any
other bob? :) |
| 01:45.42 |
``Erik |
mal: ja, the
dude we had lunch with at the golf course |
| 01:45.50 |
brlcad |
bob's pretty
cool guy, *real* easy going |
| 01:46.03 |
deltazap |
louipc:
http://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm
is our group's site |
| 01:46.09 |
``Erik |
he used to be
arl civvy, same office as john |
| 01:46.25 |
brlcad |
very much a
least-resistance path coder though, whatever gets the job done
fastest no matter how maintainable, clean, fastest running it
is |
| 01:46.29 |
Maloeran |
I'm surprised
Bob couldn't manage to come on IRC |
| 01:46.47 |
brlcad |
he just
didn't try really hard.. and might have had firewall
issues |
| 01:46.48 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I saw
some of his Fastgen code, it isn't that bad |
| 01:47.20 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
heh, he wrote most of the gui code in mged .. still think that?
:) |
| 01:47.30 |
Maloeran |
Ouch!
:) |
| 01:47.32 |
brlcad |
that said, he
also wrote archer which is worlds cleaner/improved ;) |
| 01:47.53 |
brlcad |
he was using
tcl before it was really stabilized |
| 01:48.17 |
brlcad |
plus he's
colorblind (so lets make him a gui coder! woot) |
| 01:48.17 |
Maloeran |
I think I
just have a high esteem for Bob as Mark told me he also first
submitted progress reports and invoices as a .txt file, as I
initially did |
| 01:48.43 |
brlcad |
he's a very
simple down to earth guy |
| 01:49.05 |
brlcad |
really easy
going, makes awesome guitars |
| 01:49.06 |
``Erik |
bob's
colorblind, too? |
| 01:49.16 |
louipc |
deltazap:
nice, I'd really like to do stuff like that |
| 01:49.18 |
brlcad |
yeah, ironic,
no? |
| 01:49.37 |
louipc |
solid body
guitars? |
| 01:49.41 |
``Erik |
akoostics |
| 01:49.48 |
deltazap |
louipc: this
job was just kinda dropped into my lap |
| 01:49.52 |
brlcad |
i almost
bought one off him before he left, but then I was burning cash on
other toys at the time |
| 01:49.52 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 01:50.33 |
*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 01:50.36 |
louipc |
neato |
| 01:50.39 |
deltazap |
louipc:
problem is that is a bunch of CS PhD students and noone wanted to
work with the hardware when it broke. makes it hard to show off
their systems :P |
| 01:50.46 |
brlcad |
you so
wouldn't think he makes classic guitars, with his military
background, potty mouth, and laid back coder attitude |
| 01:50.59 |
Maloeran |
He's
apparently much into fishing too |
| 01:51.02 |
deltazap |
*its |
| 01:51.09 |
louipc |
deltazap:
yeah definitely. software isn't everything :/ |
| 01:51.29 |
brlcad |
it
isn't?? |
| 01:51.35 |
deltazap |
hah |
| 01:51.42 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: and
guns |
| 01:51.51 |
brlcad |
shooting with
him is fun, if you get the chance |
| 01:51.56 |
deltazap |
that and they
don't have anyone to design and build custom hardware |
| 01:51.57 |
brlcad |
pretty
experienced |
| 01:52.07 |
brlcad |
assuming
you're not gunphobic or something |
| 01:52.12 |
Maloeran |
I think I'll
pass that :), not my kind of activity |
| 01:52.35 |
Maloeran |
I think I'm
not very fond of these particular... tools, never saw a gun
though |
| 01:52.51 |
Maloeran |
( They are
fairly rare in Canada ) |
| 01:52.54 |
brlcad |
if you hung
around him long enough, you probably would be enticed.. it's hard
not to be ;) |
| 01:52.56 |
louipc |
yea |
| 01:53.34 |
brlcad |
not hunting,
target practice shooting clay pigeons .. though bob hunts too
iirc |
| 01:53.51 |
louipc |
I went to a
flea market in georgia and I was pretty freaked out by all the
weapons |
| 01:54.07 |
Maloeran |
I'll settle
for bicycle rides with Lee instead ;) |
| 01:54.20 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: i'm
not sure it's a "rare in Canada" as it is a "rare in and around
cities" |
| 01:54.44 |
brlcad |
it's not like
I could easily go shooting down in baltimore (at least outdoors),
without getting shot at |
| 01:54.50 |
``Erik |
heh, reading
on laws and stuff, it's actually easier to buy a gun in canada than
in the US |
| 01:55.11 |
``Erik |
less wait
period, less background check... but they're all hunting grade
weapons, not "self defense" weapons |
| 01:55.18 |
louipc |
should be
even easier soon too |
| 01:56.11 |
brlcad |
yeah, i'm
referring more to the shotgun and rifle sort, not a handgun or uzi
.. though those can be fun too I hear :) |
| 01:56.35 |
``Erik |
of course,
the biggest news item gun crimes in the us are with hunting
rifles... the wv sniper, etc |
| 01:57.42 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
hmm.. I notice that ARL is one of your groups funding
sponsors.. |
| 01:57.52 |
deltazap |
yes
:) |
| 01:58.06 |
brlcad |
that's
probably a great lead towards securing a job ;) |
| 01:58.25 |
brlcad |
do you know
what part of ARL? |
| 01:58.50 |
brlcad |
that sounds
like the sort of stuff Twingy is working on now |
| 01:59.10 |
deltazap |
hang on, i
have a card from one of the guys that came a week ago to look at
everything |
| 01:59.35 |
deltazap |
weapons
technology analysis branch |
| 02:00.58 |
deltazap |
when he came,
i basically got a job offer. i've only been with the group for
three weeks :P |
| 02:02.38 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
are positions open all over the lab, a hard need for bodies and
talent |
| 02:03.17 |
Maloeran |
They aren't
too fond of canadians apparently, though |
| 02:04.33 |
louipc |
:P |
| 02:04.33 |
brlcad |
hmm.. that
branch is probably part of WTD |
| 02:04.34 |
``Erik |
does it have
an office symbol? |
| 02:04.34 |
brlcad |
pearson and
company |
| 02:04.34 |
``Erik |
like
AMSRD-ARL-WM-WB ? |
| 02:04.42 |
deltazap |
``Erik:
amsrd-arl-wm-bf |
| 02:04.47 |
brlcad |
eep |
| 02:04.50 |
``Erik |
hah, it IS
wm, bitch! |
| 02:04.53 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:05.17 |
``Erik |
<-- in
AMSRD-ARL-SL-BS |
| 02:05.24 |
``Erik |
yes, you read
that right. BS. |
| 02:05.26 |
``Erik |
:( |
| 02:05.37 |
brlcad |
better that
BF |
| 02:05.43 |
``Erik |
best
friends? |
| 02:05.43 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:05.45 |
brlcad |
s/that/than/ |
| 02:05.51 |
deltazap |
lol |
| 02:05.58 |
``Erik |
that's what
you meant, right, you pillowbiter? |
| 02:06.03 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 02:06.08 |
brlcad |
uh
huh |
| 02:06.30 |
louipc |
! |
| 02:06.51 |
brlcad |
oh yeah.. and
libapr somehow got updated again |
| 02:07.07 |
brlcad |
but I was
able to trace down the crashes to mod_security and
mod_rewrite |
| 02:07.09 |
``Erik |
this is the
part of the day where you eat some food, have a nice relaxing adult
beverage and prepare to watch southpark, buddy |
| 02:07.14 |
brlcad |
so I'm
upgrading everything now |
| 02:07.24 |
``Erik |
onyour
machine in belize? |
| 02:07.28 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 02:08.16 |
``Erik |
unfortunate
that we don't have friendly boots on the ground in that
region. |
| 02:08.24 |
deltazap |
i'm not sure
what most of the acronyms mean :P |
| 02:08.27 |
louipc |
hah I've
never heard the term 'adult beverage' before |
| 02:08.43 |
brlcad |
my schedule
is almost exactly 6 hours off right now, 9pm feels like 3pm, which
means break time .. and a second burst of energy in about two hours
until about 5am |
| 02:09.29 |
Maloeran |
Sounds great
brlcad, I thought one had to be a consultant working remotely to do
that |
| 02:09.31 |
``Erik |
got insane
amounts of stuff done in that period of my life, too |
| 02:09.33 |
brlcad |
i've tried
syncing back 6 hours three times now, but can't hold it for more
than a day |
| 02:09.56 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
seniority ;) |
| 02:10.28 |
``Erik |
heh, d'no if
it's seniority as much as contractor insulation combined with a
perception of being irreplacable :) |
| 02:10.47 |
brlcad |
but it's good
stuff (most of the time), great toys, great code and potential for
ideas if you know how to work it |
| 02:11.00 |
Maloeran |
Eheh. From
what I see, brlcad is indeed irreplacable, no one knows the
software nearly as well |
| 02:11.28 |
``Erik |
I d'no, there
may be a couple that do, but they're married to other projects
O.o |
| 02:11.31 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:11.39 |
``Erik |
(don't
inflate the boys ego, mal) |
| 02:11.41 |
``Erik |
:> |
| 02:11.43 |
brlcad |
nah, not even
lee at this point |
| 02:11.53 |
brlcad |
and he has
years on everyone |
| 02:11.59 |
``Erik |
um, lee
wasn't on my list |
| 02:12.02 |
``Erik |
jra is,
though |
| 02:12.03 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 02:12.05 |
brlcad |
interesting |
| 02:12.12 |
brlcad |
jra is
close |
| 02:12.25 |
brlcad |
from the
whole project perspective though, he has lots of gaps |
| 02:12.38 |
brlcad |
he knows more
detail in the areas he worked on though, that's for
sure |
| 02:12.46 |
``Erik |
lee is
typically grossly outdated in his knowledge base :/ |
| 02:12.56 |
``Erik |
he's been
doing the pointy hair routine too long |
| 02:13.06 |
brlcad |
depends where
in the code and the topic |
| 02:14.52 |
``Erik |
<--
ammended the tactical plan's verse on documentation to hopefully
help in that regard |
| 02:14.53 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 02:14.58 |
brlcad |
jra is up
there followed by lee then maybe bob then maybe you or
chris |
| 02:15.17 |
``Erik |
the two in my
head were john and bob |
| 02:15.34 |
brlcad |
lee knows
more than you give him credit for, there's a lot of
scope |
| 02:15.36 |
``Erik |
chris... our
one competent friend in the "primary" customer software maintenance
team? |
| 02:15.40 |
brlcad |
just lacking
detail |
| 02:15.45 |
``Erik |
lee has good
breadth |
| 02:16.01 |
brlcad |
that's what
i'm primarily referring to -- breadth of knowledge |
| 02:16.04 |
``Erik |
but when you
get into details on BRL-CAD, he vocalizes the state as of '98 or
so |
| 02:16.21 |
``Erik |
which is
current on some parts |
| 02:16.24 |
``Erik |
not on
others... |
| 02:16.53 |
brlcad |
and no --
chris johnson |
| 02:17.07 |
brlcad |
you haven't
met i believe |
| 02:17.12 |
``Erik |
hm, sounds
familiar, but I cannot place |
| 02:17.14 |
brlcad |
aside from in
here |
| 02:17.14 |
``Erik |
he,
uh |
| 02:17.21 |
``Erik |
I've talked
to him here, yes, cjohnson |
| 02:17.38 |
``Erik |
a couple
times... enough for me to go "ah ha, NOT a newbie linux
weenie" |
| 02:17.54 |
brlcad |
pjt actually
has a fair bit of breadth too, but undoubtedly all forgotten or
entirely obsolete at this point |
| 02:18.21 |
``Erik |
I suspect any
technical fu pjt had 3 years ago has gone the way of the
crapper |
| 02:18.35 |
``Erik |
he keeps a
bookcase of cs books as an opaque shrine. :( |
| 02:19.08 |
Maloeran |
Ahaha |
| 02:19.11 |
``Erik |
last time I
was in his new office, he seemed genuinely upset about that
fact |
| 02:19.21 |
``Erik |
but open
about it |
| 02:19.24 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 02:21.30 |
brlcad |
lee curiously
knows very little about the build system.. was similar in the cake
days too |
| 02:21.53 |
``Erik |
*shrug* I
wouldn't expect him to, it changed in the last 5 years |
| 02:21.55 |
Maloeran |
I wouldn't
blame it for that, I'm terribly uninspired to learn this stuff
too |
| 02:22.02 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:22.05 |
Maloeran |
blame
him* |
| 02:22.07 |
``Erik |
did you check
out rtcmp, mal? |
| 02:22.22 |
Maloeran |
Ah no, I
didn't |
| 02:22.24 |
deltazap |
how hard is
it to set up the rendering system for multiple
machines? |
| 02:22.40 |
``Erik |
the automake
usage there is much different than BRL-CAD |
| 02:23.07 |
``Erik |
given how you
lay out the directories and locations of the files, you might like
how I did rtcmp a lot more than how rayfarce currently
is |
| 02:23.28 |
brlcad |
how was that?
non-recursive? |
| 02:23.40 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.43 |
``Erik |
yeah,
toplevel build |
| 02:23.53 |
``Erik |
reduced
presense |
| 02:24.19 |
``Erik |
minimalistic,
even :) while retaining solid portability |
| 02:24.32 |
``Erik |
(though most
of it is by leveraging BRL-CAD's portability...) |
| 02:25.10 |
brlcad |
i'm curious
how fast the compile would be without recursive on brl-cad, but
hell if I am interested in 1) breaking something that works, 2)
editing 535 files, and 3) giving the gnu folks satisfaction on
their rediculous ranting |
| 02:25.13 |
``Erik |
bear in mind,
the code is crude as it's early dev |
| 02:25.59 |
``Erik |
I have 3
subdirs total, with the subdirs being linked into the toplevel
binary... it was a no-brainer to go with non-recursive |
| 02:26.26 |
``Erik |
now PARTS of
BRL-CAD might benefit from non-recursive... but most of it is best
recursive |
| 02:26.39 |
``Erik |
like ADRT
might benefit, since it often has 2 or 3 .c files in a
subdir |
| 02:27.13 |
``Erik |
and the data
dirs might |
| 02:28.39 |
brlcad |
you can still
have the makefiles deep with recursive |
| 02:28.57 |
brlcad |
and just have
#include's on the top level |
| 02:37.14 |
``Erik |
-m 'only
linux is broken' :D |
| 02:38.25 |
Maloeran |
Is their
commit email notification thing broken? |
| 02:38.48 |
``Erik |
eys |
| 02:38.49 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 02:38.57 |
``Erik |
I got an
error from this mac, as well |
| 02:39.09 |
``Erik |
and its'
ruby, not python... I was in err earlier |
| 02:39.24 |
``Erik |
I emailed
myself the error, I'll mail, uh, someone... tomorrow... |
| 02:39.44 |
Maloeran |
I haven't
received any cvs commit notification since the one at 5h42 this
morning |
| 02:42.11 |
``Erik |
perhaps
there's a muckup with my account, or with using a mac to commit
*shrug* |
| 02:42.17 |
Maloeran |
What exactly
did you change? I'm not even sure it's commiting |
| 02:42.24 |
``Erik |
it
committed |
| 02:42.46 |
``Erik |
RF/config.h |
| 02:43.02 |
Maloeran |
Right,
okay |
| 02:43.18 |
``Erik |
I put #ifdef
__linux__ around RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK |
| 02:44.08 |
Maloeran |
The problem
is glibc specific. Isn't glibc used on other platforms
too? |
| 02:44.15 |
``Erik |
not to my
knowledge |
| 02:44.48 |
``Erik |
none of the
BSD family and no UNIX uses glibc |
| 02:44.55 |
``Erik |
um, HURD/HIRD
might |
| 02:44.56 |
``Erik |
but,
uh |
| 02:44.58 |
``Erik |
no one uses
that |
| 02:44.59 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:45.40 |
Maloeran |
I think you
can run some patched glibc on various BSD |
| 02:45.57 |
``Erik |
well, yeah,
there're ports to install a tweaked glibc |
| 02:46.00 |
``Erik |
but its' not
natural |
| 02:46.23 |
``Erik |
<-- needs
to install dragonfly and netbsd to get total coverage
:/ |
| 02:46.58 |
Maloeran |
I probably
broke again whatever platforms doesn't have stdint.h, but that's a
standard C99 header, and I require C99 to compile |
| 02:48.03 |
``Erik |
stdint showed
up in the bsd family a long time ago |
| 02:48.39 |
Maloeran |
You once
added some switch to check for the existence of stdint.h, so I
assume it wasn't present on some of your test platforms |
| 02:48.47 |
``Erik |
ands ince
you're c99, you exclude pretty much all the real UNIX
platforms |
| 02:49.53 |
``Erik |
heh, too bad
I don't have aix and hpux boxen |
| 02:51.04 |
Maloeran |
The SOW said
the code is to be written in C99, I'm not too concerned if some
archaic Unix platforms still live in 1989. Is it really of any
importance to you guys? |
| 02:51.30 |
``Erik |
so when're
you cutting that mega-box up for different platforms,
mal? |
| 02:51.31 |
``Erik |
um |
| 02:51.48 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, most of our "primary use"
machines ARE that archaic. |
| 02:51.59 |
Maloeran |
Ouch, I
see |
| 02:52.09 |
``Erik |
running,
y'know, irix 6.5 and one running solaris 8 |
| 02:52.26 |
``Erik |
when I get my
solaris 10 cd's, I might 'donate' an upgrade |
| 02:52.41 |
``Erik |
to both the
e420 and an x86 |
| 02:53.01 |
``Erik |
I mostly care
about fbsd, obsd and osX these days |
| 02:53.07 |
``Erik |
a tiny little
bit about windows and linux |
| 02:53.23 |
``Erik |
irix and
solaris are nice, but mostly historical.... |
| 02:53.51 |
``Erik |
but that's my
personal profile, it doesnt' align with the common user |
| 02:53.51 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:54.33 |
``Erik |
<-- will
keep doing what he can to keep you portable to the platforms that
matter... |
| 02:54.44 |
``Erik |
performance
wise, though, a broad install base may be a big eye
opener |
| 02:54.47 |
Maloeran |
I don't see
how you can give more importance to BSD than Linux for some real
software |
| 02:55.30 |
``Erik |
hm, linux is
a limelight baby, bsd is a workhorse in teh shadows |
| 02:55.35 |
Maloeran |
I know you
are personally more fond of BSD, but I don't think that reflects
what should be the real priorities... |
| 02:55.43 |
``Erik |
yahoo, for
example... is mostly a fbsd cluster. |
| 02:55.56 |
``Erik |
yahoo stores
used to be lisp, heh |
| 02:55.59 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 02:56.07 |
Maloeran |
Some clusters
actually run fbsd? I thought it was all Linux, from what I
saw |
| 02:56.22 |
``Erik |
my baddest
"real" machine for my customers is a fbsd cluster |
| 02:56.24 |
``Erik |
uh |
| 02:56.30 |
``Erik |
linux has
marketting, dude |
| 02:56.32 |
``Erik |
fbsd
don't |
| 02:56.56 |
``Erik |
in setting up
clusters, linux was totally non-functional after a week of
effort |
| 02:57.06 |
``Erik |
fbsd is so
mature and just THERE, I have it all done in 2 hours |
| 02:57.16 |
``Erik |
and I'm not
totally linux stupid, last I checked :) |
| 02:57.47 |
Maloeran |
:)
Surprising... |
| 02:57.54 |
``Erik |
from talking
to both fbsd and linux people, linux is a bunch of 'kids' who are
very vocal... lots of /. stuff |
| 02:58.07 |
``Erik |
fbsd users
tend to be old professional types who "mkae it work" without
fuss |
| 02:58.14 |
``Erik |
cdrom.com
back in teh day was a fbsd machine |
| 02:58.39 |
brlcad |
before they
sold out |
| 02:58.45 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:58.48 |
``Erik |
TEH
DAY!!! |
| 02:59.05 |
Maloeran |
Well, the
MSRC clusters of you guys at the ARL all run Linux |
| 02:59.06 |
justin__ |
ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/95 |
| 02:59.20 |
Maloeran |
Which I think
would be an important point to care about Linux a bit |
| 02:59.25 |
``Erik |
no, most MSRC
clusters are not linux, a couple BIGGIES are linux |
| 02:59.49 |
``Erik |
I think aix
is better represented |
| 03:00.25 |
``Erik |
but bear in
mind, MSRC is not about ultimate performance or maintainability,
there's a lot of beaurocracy.... a lot of weight is put towards
sanctioned finger pointing |
| 03:00.33 |
``Erik |
which is what
sgi/altix and redhat enterprise buy you |
| 03:01.12 |
``Erik |
they aint'
runnin' gentoo, dude |
| 03:02.19 |
Maloeran |
Eh well, all
right then. I'll be one of these vocal Linux kids :) |
| 03:02.46 |
``Erik |
if you had
serious experience in a non-linux *nix, I think you'd change your
tune |
| 03:02.47 |
``Erik |
I
did |
| 03:03.04 |
``Erik |
twingy did
once he was seriously exposed to fbsd |
| 03:03.35 |
``Erik |
linux is a
dandy little toy os, a good stepping stone... :D |
| 03:03.36 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 03:05.59 |
Maloeran |
Tsk :),
there's so little potential and theorical gain from learning fbsd,
and I'll need years to be on par with my Linux |
| 03:16.07 |
Twingy |
you would
think that with glDisable (GL_DEPTH_TEST); that each successive
call to drawing an object would draw on top of anything previously
existing |
| 03:16.41 |
``Erik |
*blink* one
would think |
| 03:17.26 |
Twingy |
given I am
seeing random behavior in fbsd and winderz (both are different) I
don't know what to believe |
| 03:17.37 |
Twingy |
both are
wrong |
| 03:23.43 |
Twingy |
weird, now it
works |
| 03:24.06 |
Twingy |
display lists
+ depth buffer toggles do bad things |
| 03:40.38 |
louipc |
gentoo is a
maintenance nightmare if you ask me |
| 03:41.24 |
louipc |
yeah I have
to try fbsd |
| 04:00.33 |
Maloeran |
I found
Gentoo is fine as long as you install and update what you need, and
never ever try emerge world |
| 04:03.06 |
louipc |
Archlinux is
kind of like fbsd in that respect |
| 04:09.00 |
Twingy |
numaPICOS |
| 04:09.54 |
Maloeran |
Erik, give to
fbsd better NUMA support than Linux and its libNUMA, and I'll move
over :) |
| 04:44.40 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050306.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:03.15 |
deltazap |
Maloeran: if
you do emerge world, make sure you have a nice distcc system set up
:P |
| 05:04.15 |
brlcad |
or just
really nice hardware ;) |
| 05:06.48 |
deltazap |
if distcc
worked well with darwinports on osx, then i'd be really happy using
my powermac to help compile things |
| 05:08.34 |
louipc |
deltazap:
Maloeran has a pretty sweet machine I don't think he needs to worry
about that |
| 05:09.14 |
brlcad |
``Erik: got
all the web services upgraded now |
| 05:13.30 |
brlcad |
``Erik: since
I actually looked at gdb instead of just doing the fix, there are
multiple crash points or at least places where mod_security,
mod_rewrite, and libphp could independently (i.e. with the other
two disabled) crash httpd due to various issues |
| 05:13.57 |
brlcad |
one crashed
inside a log attempt, another while lookup up httpd's running
username, another while talking back through apr |
| 05:15.53 |
brlcad |
the fix is
pretty simple, have to get php and apache to both (forcibly) have
-pthread added to the CFLAGS -- for php this amounts to building,
cd into work, reconfigure with CFLAGS=-pthread, cd out, and
reinstall .. for apache2, it's a matter of editing the ports
Makefile and appending -pthread to the CFLAGS |
| 05:16.05 |
brlcad |
once that was
done, everything was a happy donkey |
| 07:02.05 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-93-137.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:05.45 |
Maloeran |
Woah... This
new release of Firefox guesses what I'm typing in its integrated
google search before I'm done |
| 08:06.11 |
Maloeran |
I type the
first two words of a book title, and it fills up the rest
o.O |
| 08:11.38 |
Maloeran |
Erik,
SURVICE's email troubles don't seem limited to cvs commits. Sending
an email to Mark failed with "TCP active open: Failed connect()
Error: Connection refused" for the last 14 hours |
| 08:17.44 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:19.23 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:37.13 |
``Erik |
stupid
intarweb |
| 13:37.37 |
``Erik |
brlcad: might
be worth tweaking /etc/make.conf to always include -pthread in the
CFLAGS |
| 14:16.44 |
Maloeran |
Erik, any
objection to the use of non-public SDL function calls? The only way
to get efficient N buffering |
| 14:17.13 |
Maloeran |
Looking at
the source, it should be portable, though perhaps could break with
future SDL versions |
| 14:24.26 |
Maloeran |
Darn, the
functions required are declared static, no symbols |
| 14:26.28 |
``Erik |
the part that
matters is the raytrace engine, not the demo app...
right? |
| 14:27.24 |
Maloeran |
And you guys
are going to use the raytracing engine to shoot one ray at a time
without using 10% of the engine's features *sigh* |
| 14:29.20 |
``Erik |
at
first |
| 14:29.23 |
``Erik |
for one of
the apps |
| 14:29.27 |
``Erik |
the "selling"
app |
| 14:29.38 |
``Erik |
but things
like CCI will not be designed so r-tarded |
| 14:31.09 |
``Erik |
stringing it
into isst will be much more optimal than "the selling app"
:/ |
| 14:31.28 |
Maloeran |
Ah, what are
CCI/ISST? |
| 14:31.58 |
Maloeran |
The video
recording performs N buffering so it scales well with threads and
distributed processing, but the SDL visualization clearly doesn't (
block and wait every frame ) |
| 14:32.18 |
``Erik |
other
projects... :) ISST is interactive, CCI is more of a very
specialized large scale global illumination concept (not started
yet) |
| 14:32.39 |
Maloeran |
Neat |
| 14:33.06 |
``Erik |
isst is in
the BRL-CAD cvs repo as src/adrt/isst |
| 14:33.27 |
Maloeran |
Further
development of Rayforce is likely to become closed-source though,
as the ARL stops support and Survice wants to lead |
| 14:34.47 |
Maloeran |
which I think
is rather unfortunate, ah well... |
| 14:35.21 |
``Erik |
*shrug* the
core of it will go lgpl, right? |
| 14:35.39 |
``Erik |
as long as
whatever builds on it adheres to the license, who
cares? |
| 14:36.32 |
Maloeran |
As copyright
holder, I can pick any license for future developments, and Survice
clearly prefers closed source |
| 14:37.42 |
Maloeran |
Hum, and they
advocate patents too |
| 14:40.27 |
Maloeran |
Anyhow, I
just thought you guys should know that future improvements ( such
as the long list of postponed optimisations ) will most likely not
be LGPL |
| 14:40.54 |
Maloeran |
Unless Wendy
changes her mind within a month somehow :) |
| 15:27.38 |
Maloeran |
Getting a
pointer within the current_video struct through SDL_GetVideoInfo(),
then from that pointer scanning memory around for the ->shadow
surface pointer, and then modifying that pointer, works. It's also
the ugliest hack I have done in a while :), I don't think I'm going
to keep that |
| 16:06.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@84.135.73.152) |
| 16:14.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h):
more progress on dvec class: constructors, equality and
addition. |
| 16:15.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: add simple test for
dvec<8> correctness |
| 16:23.41 |
*** join/#brlcad cad55
(n=440187be@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:45.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h):
"finish" implementing dvec. added operator for
debugging. |
| 17:47.46 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: finish testing
methods of dvec<>. add simple performance test for
dvec<>. |
| 17:57.59 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050306.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:05.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54874998.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:40.53 |
``Erik |
mal: we'll
throw so much horky geometry at it that sdl blit speeds will be
irrelevant :) |
| 18:43.10 |
Maloeran |
Good good :),
you'll have to be far in the millions |
| 18:45.39 |
Maloeran |
Heard
anything abou SURVICE's dead email daemon? Where's the cron job to
start it back? |
| 18:45.43 |
Maloeran |
about* |
| 18:47.19 |
Maloeran |
Don't try
sending them emails, it bounces back |
| 19:32.45 |
``Erik |
<-- knows
nothing of their internal operations. |
| 19:35.48 |
Maloeran |
Distributed
processing with frame buffering sure saturates my 100mbit fast, I
need a better router or switch. It works nicely though |
| 19:36.35 |
Maloeran |
Any thoughts
on a fast and loseless compression library that would be
appropriate for these chunks of pixels? |
| 19:36.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl:
wdb_smooth_bot doesn't seem to have a help entry, which causes all
hlep to fail. commenting it out for now... |
| 19:36.50 |
``Erik |
loseless?
hrm, no :/ |
| 19:39.45 |
Maloeran |
A whole lot
of papers on google on fast lossless image compression |
| 19:40.04 |
``Erik |
hmmmm |
| 19:40.15 |
``Erik |
lets see, the
base model I want to try is 7.2 million triangles |
| 19:40.34 |
``Erik |
if that's not
enough, I can put a hundred or a thousand of them in a
scene |
| 19:42.42 |
Maloeran |
Neat, should
be a bit slower than the 2 million triangles galleon, depends on
space complexity |
| 19:43.27 |
``Erik |
very compact
and dense |
| 19:43.59 |
``Erik |
with some
larger 'shelling' triangles on the outside, I believe |
| 19:44.21 |
``Erik |
7214956
triangles |
| 19:44.44 |
Maloeran |
*nods* The
galleon is a difficult for space partitionning techniques with
these ropes and sails everywhere |
| 20:47.14 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: has
this occurred anywhere else? syntax error in config using automake
1.9.6? starting from autogen, i isolated it down to aclocal,
dropped back to 1.8.5 and all is well. |
| 20:49.18 |
IriX64 |
btw this one
installs right ;) |
| 20:50.44 |
IriX64 |
btw i'm quite
willing to test any issues you're having if you need a test
bed. |
| 20:57.13 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/377531 |
| 20:57.19 |
IriX64 |
that setup
succeds. |
| 21:23.34 |
IriX64 |
hey where's
louipc? |
| 21:34.29 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.177.69) |
| 21:42.21 |
``Erik |
mal, how do I
convert something to rtgg? |
| 21:43.19 |
Maloeran |
Err... Right,
give me a moment on that one |
| 21:43.35 |
Maloeran |
I converted
the old rtml files but forgot to write a g->rtgg |
| 21:43.56 |
``Erik |
:) g-tri.c
doens't do anything |
| 21:44.12 |
Maloeran |
That's Lee's
example I think |
| 21:44.20 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 21:44.24 |
Maloeran |
Hum...
Perhaps I even forgot to commit the rtml converter |
| 21:44.32 |
``Erik |
I don't think
you ever committed anything like that |
| 22:13.28 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707015.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:21.03 |
*** join/#brlcad test34-
(n=test34@unaffiliated/test34) |
| 22:21.11 |
*** part/#brlcad test34-
(n=test34@unaffiliated/test34) |
| 22:34.25 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: how about fixing
the problem instead, should be wdb_bot_smooth |
| 22:43.53 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: s/srtdup/strdup/ typo |
| 22:59.17 |
louipc |
:O I thought
archer wasn't announced. It's mentioned in wikipedia
hah |
| 23:14.01 |
``Erik |
hehehe, my
quick greps didn't show a plausible candidate, guess I just grepped
wrong :) |
| 23:17.05 |
brlcad |
that command
used to be called smooth_bot |
| 23:17.23 |
brlcad |
then was
later renamed to bot_smooth to be more consistent with the other
bot_* commands |
| 23:18.07 |
``Erik |
I vagually
remember hearing that before |
| 23:18.29 |
brlcad |
mike actually
fixed the few remaining, but apparently missed the help
one |
| 23:18.30 |
``Erik |
<-- was
trying to learn facetize, 'help' was puking in mged, pulled a bob
to make it work *shrug* :) |
| 23:18.42 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 23:18.45 |
brlcad |
shame on you
:) |
| 23:18.59 |
``Erik |
heh, I only
know a tiny fraction of the stuff in the package |
| 23:19.00 |
brlcad |
pulling a bob
is never a good thing :) |
| 23:19.11 |
``Erik |
and broad
greps weren't helping me... |
| 23:19.33 |
``Erik |
grep isn't
exactly a context free language |
| 23:19.36 |
brlcad |
that whole
triple table foo for help is a bit funky in itself |
| 23:20.02 |
``Erik |
<--
grepped a couple choice subsymbols through the whole tree before
commenting it out... and just commented it, didn't delete
it... |
| 23:20.29 |
``Erik |
I knew I was
punting, so I left breadcrumbs :) I try not to BREAK
things |
| 23:43.21 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050306.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:32.55 |
*** join/#brlcad bsder
(n=andrewl@cpe-66-75-155-122.san.res.rr.com) |
| 01:31.15 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: abort with a clean
message if a pkgIndex.tcl file does not exist since open's failure
message is less than ideal |
| 01:32.51 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: oop, remove debug
print |
| 01:33.35 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ami.tcl: abort with a clean
message if a tclIndex file does not exist since open's failure
message is less than ideal |
| 01:41.50 |
IriX64 |
should report
an error yes, but to abort? |
| 01:43.55 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): heh,
there's quality control for ya.. check for existance of variable
name so we actually do some work.. |
| 01:43.57 |
brlcad |
aborting is
just a rude way of error'ing |
| 01:44.31 |
brlcad |
it should be
more graceful about it though, yeah |
| 01:44.39 |
IriX64 |
agreed |
| 01:44.46 |
brlcad |
to fix it,
look at the file dsp loading code |
| 01:44.59 |
brlcad |
src/librt/g_dsp.c .. match it to the abort
error message you get |
| 01:45.36 |
IriX64 |
g_dsp.c line
3134 ive looked. |
| 01:49.37 |
brlcad |
if you "cd
db" from inside the source tree, it should find its data
file |
| 01:51.00 |
IriX64 |
after i bring
up mged you mean, and load it from within "db"? |
| 01:52.06 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, Erik,
can I assume zlib is not an unreasonable required
dependency? |
| 01:52.30 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
it's already one |
| 01:52.34 |
brlcad |
(to
brl-cad) |
| 01:52.44 |
brlcad |
so no, not at
all ;) |
| 01:52.52 |
Maloeran |
Oh.
:) |
| 01:53.16 |
brlcad |
pretty much
anything like zlib that has zero dependencies of it's own are
usually unreasonable |
| 01:53.51 |
brlcad |
or if the dep
is just something like zlib with no deps of it's own |
| 01:55.55 |
Maloeran |
Usually
unreasonable? |
| 01:55.56 |
Maloeran |
Just making
sure you didn't intend to type "reasonable" instead |
| 01:55.56 |
brlcad |
other similar
deps we currently already have, libpng, zlib, libregex, and termlib
(not full-blown curses) |
| 01:55.56 |
brlcad |
er, yeah ..
reasonable |
| 01:56.04 |
IriX64 |
will try it
soon as this make install is done brlcad. |
| 01:56.24 |
Maloeran |
I can keep it
optional, but if won't go nicely if processing nodes are compiled
with/without it, without further handshake tests anyway |
| 01:56.36 |
brlcad |
something
like gtk sit at the other extreme .. dependency hell |
| 01:56.51 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707015.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:57.03 |
brlcad |
zlib is
trivial to use, no reason not to other than technical
benefit |
| 01:57.09 |
Maloeran |
Nevermind
actually, I'll keep it optional, I really prefer to keep
dependencies to a minimum |
| 01:57.20 |
brlcad |
what are your
deps currently? |
| 01:57.26 |
louipc |
Maloeran:
cool vids ;) |
| 01:57.31 |
brlcad |
sdl's a
fairly heavy one for keeping them to a minimum :) |
| 01:57.42 |
Twingy |
on my system
I take make; make install and gtk isn't much of an issue
:) |
| 01:57.52 |
Maloeran |
The engine :
nothing but C99 and pthreads. The demos : SDL |
| 01:58.03 |
Maloeran |
Thanks louipc
:) |
| 01:58.04 |
brlcad |
that's not
too shabby |
| 01:58.05 |
Twingy |
I suppose
anything is dependency hell if you have a crappy package
system |
| 01:58.23 |
Twingy |
i.e. irix
freeware |
| 01:58.30 |
Twingy |
i.e. redhat
rpms |
| 01:59.05 |
Maloeran |
The video
recording demo doesn't require SDL clearly, but I prefer some
visible interactive output ;) |
| 01:59.06 |
brlcad |
which is the
reality of being and caring about cross-platform |
| 01:59.16 |
brlcad |
if you don't
care about that, then .. sure, not an issue |
| 02:01.46 |
Maloeran |
By the way
brlcad, I found how to add proper N buffering support in SDL, but I
don't think my patch would be accepted. It would be a mess to
require a patched SDL too |
| 02:02.56 |
brlcad |
never know
till you submit ;) |
| 02:03.07 |
brlcad |
i'd like that
feature myself |
| 02:03.38 |
brlcad |
probably more
of doing the patch in a way that is clean to the API |
| 02:04.42 |
Maloeran |
Easy : just
provide a function to replace the "shadow" surface of any screen
surface with another identical in size and format. The previous
shadow surface becomes an independent surface |
| 02:06.45 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: tops
reports mapped file open failed twice but it did do the
list. |
| 02:07.15 |
brlcad |
so replace
shadow with a pointer into an array, and add an API function to
attach additional SDL_Surfaces (which just add to the array) like
SDL_AddFlipSurface() |
| 02:07.41 |
brlcad |
then SDL_Flip
just rotates the pointer through the array |
| 02:08.00 |
brlcad |
should be
neat n clean enough to accept unless someone has moral objections
to it |
| 02:08.01 |
Maloeran |
Rotation is
not good enough, I must be able to hop erratically |
| 02:08.22 |
Maloeran |
Replacing the
shadow surface is clean really, just changing one little
pointer |
| 02:08.41 |
brlcad |
so add
another that is SDL_SetFlipSurface() too, but let default just
rotate or somesuch |
| 02:09.01 |
brlcad |
yeah, but
that exposes an internal .. I can't see them accepting
that |
| 02:09.48 |
Maloeran |
There's a
function around it. SDL_SetShadowSurface( SDL_surface *shadow
); |
| 02:10.06 |
Maloeran |
The previous
shadow/screen surface becomes a regular surface at that point, very
simple |
| 02:10.18 |
brlcad |
so they
already have the func |
| 02:10.25 |
Maloeran |
No :), that's
mine |
| 02:10.33 |
brlcad |
ah..
hmm |
| 02:11.37 |
brlcad |
maybe they'll
take it just like that, though they might not like the name if
"Shadow" surfaces aren't exposed anywhere else |
| 02:12.01 |
Maloeran |
SDL_SetScreenSurface() might be more
appropriate |
| 02:12.03 |
brlcad |
but that's
easy enough to change if that's their only gripe |
| 02:12.16 |
brlcad |
go for it
;) |
| 02:12.37 |
Maloeran |
Now, I need
to learn how to make a patch! :) I think it involves
diff |
| 02:12.41 |
brlcad |
talked to any
of the devs about making the change? |
| 02:12.42 |
brlcad |
hah |
| 02:12.45 |
brlcad |
serious?
:) |
| 02:13.19 |
Maloeran |
Initial reply
from dev was "I don't think it would be something we'd add to SDL
itself" |
| 02:13.35 |
brlcad |
diff -u file
> mymod.patch |
| 02:13.50 |
brlcad |
er diff -u
fileold filenew > mymod.patch |
| 02:14.52 |
Maloeran |
Thanks |
| 02:15.51 |
Maloeran |
If multiple
files were modified, can I append all the "diff" to the same
patch? |
| 02:16.06 |
louipc |
:O |
| 02:16.09 |
IriX64 |
brlcad:
aclocal-1.8.5/automake-1.8.5 fixes that syntax error in config
bug. |
| 02:16.27 |
louipc |
Maloeran:
yep |
| 02:16.29 |
brlcad |
diff -r -u
dirold dirnew if you have entire directory differences, or even
better ... cvs diff -u > mod.patch |
| 02:17.30 |
brlcad |
might want to
add -b -B if you inadvertently changed whitespace too .. that's
usually annoying to include with feature patches |
| 02:17.57 |
brlcad |
(never hurts,
just means ignore differences in whitespace) |
| 02:18.03 |
Maloeran |
All right,
thanks |
| 02:26.19 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): aha!
enlightenment hath arrived. creating the index files actually
sources the file args provided so when it ends up running the other
amp?i.tcl script, it was choking on the error. just return 0 to
indicate success. |
| 02:27.29 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (7 files in 7 dirs):
ws |
| 02:51.09 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, have
you forgiven me yet for that wallpaper joke? |
| 02:57.49 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 02:58.54 |
IriX64 |
video
magnification = 101 11111111110000000000111111111 right
? :) |
| 02:59.30 |
IriX64 |
the ten 1's
and ten 0's are stored in the fram buffer. |
| 02:59.38 |
IriX64 |
frame
too. |
| 03:00.49 |
IriX64 |
ive used
this, top half of the screen is normal, bottom half is
x10. |
| 04:16.48 |
louipc |
should
variable names be that long? :P |
| 04:19.28 |
Maloeran |
Probably not
:) |
| 04:21.20 |
louipc |
I know it's
tough to juggle descriptiveness between brevity |
| 12:57.26 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.246) |
| 13:53.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548762CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:12.17 |
brlcad |
*yawn* |
| 14:48.00 |
``Erik |
indeed. |
| 14:53.13 |
Maloeran |
Argh no, not
another 30cm of snow |
| 14:59.38 |
``Erik |
hmmmm, the
'btree' I'm supposed to look at, is that the balanced binary tree
in RF/mm.c ? |
| 15:00.00 |
``Erik |
(and a btree
is a fairly specific data structure that is not binary) |
| 15:00.41 |
Maloeran |
Yes, the
btree functions in mm.c. mmBinaryTree* was a bit too
long |
| 15:01.15 |
Maloeran |
It's not of
much importance, I'm just curious to identify the kind of balanced
binary tree |
| 16:00.15 |
Maloeran |
What a
blizzard. I won't be riding a bicycle again anytime
soon |
| 16:03.38 |
``Erik |
weeee, I got
to stomp around the boonies doing "geocaching" tomorrow
:D |
| 16:03.41 |
``Erik |
get
to |
| 16:04.30 |
Maloeran |
stomp
boonies, geocaching? |
| 16:05.05 |
``Erik |
http://www.geocaching.com/ |
| 16:09.27 |
Maloeran |
Cool, weird
stuff |
| 16:10.07 |
brlcad |
for the first
time? |
| 16:10.34 |
Maloeran |
Of course
not, but rock climbing is not very practical here during
winter |
| 16:23.57 |
brlcad |
so,
everything seems to be working at least under os x now with the
upgraded tcl/tk |
| 16:24.45 |
brlcad |
actually,
can't check tk so easily just yet, but everything seems to be
behaving as it should so far and all tests run/pass |
| 16:26.43 |
``Erik |
sweet |
| 16:33.12 |
Maloeran |
Neat, Survice
crashed their email server by "exceeding disk space", for 3 days
now |
| 16:43.14 |
``Erik |
explains why
my mail to eric didn't work |
| 17:30.09 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 17:30.13 |
``Erik |
mal... |
| 17:30.33 |
``Erik |
it looks like
an attempt at an AVL tree |
| 17:30.35 |
``Erik |
but it's not
balanced. |
| 17:33.38 |
``Erik |
(that woulda
been MUCH faster if it were commented) |
| 17:41.47 |
Maloeran |
Of course
it's balanced |
| 17:42.15 |
Maloeran |
Well kind of,
it maintains the tree balance within good limits |
| 17:42.43 |
``Erik |
'within good
limits'? :D |
| 17:43.02 |
Maloeran |
The most
expensive branch can never be twice longuer than the
shortest |
| 17:43.09 |
Maloeran |
And
typically, the average is fairly good |
| 17:44.24 |
Maloeran |
I'm impressed
you managed to make sense of the code :) |
| 17:46.46 |
``Erik |
heh, it was
rough and I still don't grok parts of it :) |
| 17:47.11 |
``Erik |
some notional
comment of what MM_BTREE_FLAGS_STEP is would make it a lot easier
to read |
| 17:47.44 |
``Erik |
and the
naming convention makes things rough... 'anode' where I may've used
'ancestor_n' |
| 17:47.49 |
Maloeran |
It's a marker
to recognize patterns in the tree structure |
| 17:49.27 |
``Erik |
yeah, but
that's one that's highlighted all through the insert ufnction on my
printout as I was trying to 'solve' it :) |
| 17:50.02 |
Maloeran |
:) I think
it's kind of elegant, very efficient |
| 17:50.36 |
Maloeran |
And the
worst, rare case ( longuest twice as long as shortest ) is not too
bad |
| 17:51.11 |
Maloeran |
So anyway,
it's surely nothing new, but putting a name on the balanced binary
tree could be nice |
| 17:51.57 |
``Erik |
it's not
really balanced, though, the min and max tree dpeth differ by more
than 1 in cases |
| 17:52.35 |
Maloeran |
Of course.
The point is high performance with a very much acceptable "worst
case", it's not a perfect balance |
| 17:52.54 |
Maloeran |
Getting a
perfect balance constantly is way too expensive, performance is the
objective here |
| 17:53.55 |
``Erik |
*shrug* well
done avl's and rb trees are pretty fast, there was another one that
stored dpeth at each node and rotated on the way down to maintain
balance, I forget its name, though |
| 17:54.06 |
``Erik |
I know it had
lightening bolts on the diagrams in the MIT book :D |
| 17:54.51 |
Maloeran |
I think it's
a weird rb tree. Anyhow, I was mostly looking for critisism on the
rest of the code :) |
| 17:55.08 |
``Erik |
rb trees are
weird avl trees *shrug* |
| 17:55.52 |
Maloeran |
If you have a
good rb implementation nearby, we could benchmark one
day |
| 17:57.18 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 17:57.18 |
``Erik |
glib
implements a couple balanced trees iirc, and libbu in BRL-CAD has
an rb tree |
| 17:57.18 |
``Erik |
bah, stupid
linux |
| 18:02.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran
(n=maloeran@glvortex.net) |
| 18:03.32 |
Maloeran |
Woah. Erik,
these harsh words wounded my Linux kernel so deeply that it
commited suicide |
| 18:04.16 |
``Erik |
heh, yes,
such a fickle and unstable OS |
| 18:04.19 |
``Erik |
emo
software |
| 18:04.20 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 18:04.43 |
Maloeran |
An instant
reboot, I can't blame overclocking on that box |
| 18:06.00 |
Maloeran |
Seriously,
this is weird.. |
| 18:10.17 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:16.26 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/378697 |
| 18:20.00 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/378701 |
| 18:20.07 |
IriX64 |
shouldn't
these .... |
| 18:20.18 |
IriX64 |
be restored
by autoconf? |
| 18:20.32 |
IriX64 |
i mean your
script generates them somehow but... |
| 18:26.05 |
IriX64 |
after
running, autogen.sh aclocal still complains, but the missing files
are now there :) |
| 18:35.26 |
IriX64 |
``Erik
thought you people were interested. |
| 18:36.49 |
``Erik |
um, libtool,
actually |
| 18:36.55 |
``Erik |
from the
libtoolize command |
| 18:37.03 |
``Erik |
and automake,
I think, if running in the -a mode |
| 18:37.13 |
``Erik |
just use
autogen.sh |
| 18:37.34 |
``Erik |
on windows,
automake might require -ca |
| 18:37.50 |
IriX64 |
no it runs
successfully. |
| 18:37.56 |
IriX64 |
with no
options. |
| 18:38.12 |
``Erik |
uh, that
second paste says that it does NO run successfully |
| 18:38.27 |
IriX64 |
urf thats
after a distclean. |
| 18:38.43 |
IriX64 |
after
autogen.sh if run standalone it does. |
| 18:47.06 |
brlcad |
IriX64: for
the third time, that's because you're running the wrong manual
steps and missing arguments |
| 18:47.57 |
brlcad |
if you're not
going to read autogen.sh to figure out what those steps should be,
don't waste (our and your) time with reports that individual steps
aren't doing what you expect them to do |
| 18:51.44 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: include
appropriate headers (cygwin fix) |
| 18:57.55 |
``Erik |
fucking
goddamn mother fucking!~#!~@!~ |
| 18:58.25 |
``Erik |
in the middle
of a build, a dialog on the windows machine pops up saying that
it's downloaded updates and will automatically restart in 3
minutes... and the only button on the thing was 'restart
now' |
| 18:58.47 |
brlcad |
hehehe |
| 19:02.53 |
IriX64 |
turn off
automatic updates i hate that #%^$#%#% thing. |
| 19:04.23 |
``Erik |
'corporate'
computer, I have no control of that machine |
| 19:04.38 |
IriX64 |
heh you're a
marine ;) |
| 19:04.43 |
``Erik |
shit, I
probably need a triple signed memo to move an icon on the
desktop |
| 19:04.55 |
IriX64 |
see
above. |
| 19:04.58 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 19:05.08 |
*** join/#brlcad cad95
(n=58751fe0@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:09.04 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/378754
<---- your steps. |
| 19:11.34 |
brlcad |
yes, that's
better |
| 19:12.05 |
brlcad |
aside from a
few additional sanity checks that autogen.sh does for
you |
| 19:12.31 |
brlcad |
like
restoring clobbered files, making sure there's no buggy versions
doing bad things |
| 19:13.04 |
brlcad |
the aclocal
warnings are benign and not our problem, you 'll notice they are
for different projects |
| 19:27.09 |
``Erik |
also; sweet.
my little single threaded program took an 8 core opteron linux box
to a load of 6 and ugly system consumption |
| 19:28.02 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: was
just trying to help. |
| 19:28.28 |
``Erik |
hehehehe but
it made it to 17 gigs before puking, neat |
| 19:30.37 |
IriX64 |
try void
main(void) { for(i=0i;1000000000000;i++) fputs(outfile,"Hello
there"); } |
| 19:31.20 |
IriX64 |
ermf comma
missing, oh well. |
| 19:32.08 |
``Erik |
this was
straining mal's semi-balanced tree routine |
| 19:33.46 |
IriX64 |
reminds me of
OS/2 and trying to see how well the swap file worked :) |
| 19:34.19 |
IriX64 |
maybe ugly
but it works. |
| 19:34.20 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am):
wire in libsysv as a librt dep (cygwin) |
| 19:34.40 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 19:38.32 |
IriX64 |
where's that
answer to life, the universe, and everythin? |
| 19:38.56 |
brlcad |
IriX64: I
understand.. but insisting on going down a faulty route isn't
helpful.. now investigating g_dsp.. that's helpful ;) |
| 19:39.20 |
IriX64 |
don't remind
me, btw i am still looking at it. |
| 19:39.49 |
brlcad |
actually..
IriX64, since you seem intent on finding faults.. there is one
particular area that you could help with |
| 19:40.10 |
IriX64 |
where? |
| 19:40.33 |
brlcad |
and all it
really involves is running the converter on the example geometry
databases |
| 19:40.50 |
IriX64 |
which
converter you have several. |
| 19:41.02 |
IriX64 |
or do you
mean asc2g? |
| 19:41.49 |
brlcad |
yeah, sry ..
i mean picking one of them that facetizes, like g-stl or
g-dxf |
| 19:41.59 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 19:42.03 |
brlcad |
g-something
where "something" is some format that you can actually
evaluate |
| 19:42.34 |
IriX64 |
ill see what
i can do. |
| 19:43.22 |
brlcad |
then
basically just ending up with a list/table of the geometry files in
db/ and for each top level object, reporting whether g-whatever
succeeded fully, partially, aborted abnormally, or outright
crashed |
| 19:43.42 |
brlcad |
heck, if you
did it for all the converters, that would be freaking
sweet |
| 19:54.35 |
IriX64 |
tell you
right now somethings wonky with g-dxf or dxf-g i translated to dxf
and then used dxf-g and something got lost in the
translation. |
| 19:55.40 |
brlcad |
which is why
it would be useful to have a list of the geometry files and the
behavior |
| 19:55.55 |
brlcad |
that would be
a case for it was a partial conversion |
| 19:56.04 |
brlcad |
s/for/where/ |
| 19:56.18 |
IriX64 |
think its the
file? I'll try another. |
| 19:56.39 |
brlcad |
sure,
something like moss.g should be almost guaranteed to complete
successfully |
| 19:59.24 |
``Erik |
feck |
| 19:59.32 |
IriX64 |
says there no
such thing in moss, guess i could bring mged up and verify that but
you probably know. |
| 19:59.39 |
IriX64 |
as all i
mean. |
| 20:00.13 |
brlcad |
each file has
a different set of top-level objects |
| 20:00.24 |
brlcad |
run "mged -c
file.g tops" to get the list |
| 20:00.39 |
brlcad |
each
top-level object should be tested individually |
| 20:02.19 |
IriX64 |
got it found
my problem with all |
| 20:02.33 |
IriX64 |
forgot the .g
(goof that I am.) |
| 20:05.01 |
``Erik |
(also keep in
mind, _GLOBAL is not an object, it's a container for some file wide
things like db title and default unit) |
| 20:05.24 |
``Erik |
so moss.g
will show _GLOBAL and all.g, you only care about all.g in that
file |
| 20:05.50 |
IriX64 |
ty maybe ill
tackle it obviously you're in no rush for it. |
| 20:06.14 |
``Erik |
heh, we all
have 8 zillion things to do |
| 20:06.17 |
brlcad |
not a "rush",
but highly useful |
| 20:06.22 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 20:06.42 |
``Erik |
and only
three people really 'work' on the project, with other competing
time consumers :/ |
| 20:07.22 |
brlcad |
more than
three, but the % of their time is definitely shared |
| 20:07.26 |
``Erik |
hey, brlcad,
is 'egf' done, or are you still mucking with it? |
| 20:07.37 |
brlcad |
egf? |
| 20:07.41 |
``Erik |
3 'primary'
ones, I think... I haven't seen anything from bob in a
while |
| 20:07.46 |
``Erik |
endgame |
| 20:07.49 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 20:08.15 |
brlcad |
no, it's not
"done" .. and is going to continue through a follow-on project over
the upcoming months |
| 20:08.27 |
brlcad |
the converter
effort is just about done |
| 20:08.31 |
``Erik |
ah |
| 20:09.03 |
brlcad |
the follow-up
should lead towards an improved C++ api to the geometry engine, as
well as testing infrastructure improvements |
| 20:09.45 |
brlcad |
among other
goodies, like helping with the brep improvements |
| 20:10.02 |
brlcad |
damn it's
awesome outside right now |
| 20:12.09 |
``Erik |
wahhh, I
wanna be out playing geocache, wwwaaaahhhhhh |
| 20:12.52 |
``Erik |
be a fun
sailing day ;/ |
| 20:21.28 |
Maloeran |
Urgh Erik,
17gb of balanced binary trees? Are you trying to find a bug in my
code or what? :) |
| 20:21.58 |
``Erik |
um |
| 20:21.59 |
``Erik |
yes? |
| 20:22.16 |
Maloeran |
Good, keep at
it :) |
| 20:22.26 |
``Erik |
Failed to
malloc: 37748736000 |
| 20:22.41 |
``Erik |
depth: 29
-> 56 (4) |
| 20:22.41 |
``Erik |
800.000000
: 307.289077 seconds |
| 20:23.02 |
``Erik |
aand actually
I'm mucking with nmg facetization right now :) |
| 20:23.20 |
``Erik |
waiting for
the widnows people to quit dicking with my computer so I can
continue cygwin efforts |
| 20:24.30 |
Maloeran |
You had to
call a windows sysadmin to be authorized to open a .c file, or
perhaps to execute vim? |
| 20:25.11 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:25.17 |
``Erik |
no, they
asked me ot get off of it so they could patch it |
| 20:25.26 |
Maloeran |
I looked into
nmg quite a bit too, but it wasn't very clear how to proceed to
make triangles face the proper way |
| 20:25.36 |
Maloeran |
I would have
kept going if I had more time to spare |
| 20:25.52 |
Maloeran |
That
too |
| 20:27.09 |
``Erik |
since nmg
solves closed volumes, you can do a surface walk and orient winding
or normals with two easy distinct possibilities: either they're all
correct or all incorrect... and if they're ALL incorrect, just flip
them all and it's done :) |
| 20:28.10 |
``Erik |
but if it
pukes on dangling faces or unclosed volumes, you don't get jack
shit *shrug* |
| 20:28.32 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's all
part of the same problem really. Making it work
properly |
| 20:29.32 |
``Erik |
but I have my
winderz machine back *sigh* |
| 20:29.55 |
Maloeran |
Why are you
doing this on windows? |
| 20:30.15 |
``Erik |
fixing nmg is
on fbsd, but I'm trying to get it to build on cygwin... different
effort |
| 20:31.48 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (6 files): restructure and
simplify the jove tutorial/teaching stuff. |
| 20:43.10 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (7 files in 6 dirs): add SYSV
where needed (cygwin) |
| 20:43.52 |
IriX64 |
of BRL-CAD i
mean. |
| 20:44.43 |
IriX64 |
how do I get
it to you, it's huge. |
| 20:46.44 |
brlcad |
i doubt he
needs it |
| 20:46.48 |
brlcad |
he installed
cygwin |
| 20:46.52 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
Erik will accept any .dll file |
| 20:47.01 |
IriX64 |
ahhh we can
compare notes. |
| 20:47.18 |
IriX64 |
the dll he
has if he installed cygwin. |
| 20:47.38 |
IriX64 |
its in /bin
. |
| 20:48.59 |
IriX64 |
212,296kbyte
bz2 file. |
| 20:50.29 |
brlcad |
louipc: does
archlinux have a shorthand name? |
| 20:50.38 |
brlcad |
what does gnu
call it? |
| 20:51.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: don't use winsock if
building on cygwin, stick with UNIX style |
| 20:52.54 |
IriX64 |
``Erik it's
photon mapping my favorite wall candy. |
| 20:53.34 |
``Erik |
if you can
get 'rise' to build, it's niftier... src/adrt/rise |
| 20:53.52 |
``Erik |
figuring out
how to USE it will keep ya busy for a while, tho |
| 20:53.52 |
IriX64 |
ermf SDL
issues still, working on it. |
| 20:54.03 |
IriX64 |
heh no
doubt. |
| 20:54.18 |
``Erik |
(but once you
figure it out, you can tell us, so we can use it, too
;) |
| 20:55.38 |
IriX64 |
Jean-Luc
picard, says to his Singer sewing machine repairman, "make it sew"
:) |
| 20:55.47 |
IriX64 |
thats not
mine tho. |
| 20:58.41 |
IriX64 |
hah nobody
looked at the binaries in incoming? |
| 21:00.20 |
``Erik |
http://www.tribeam.com/product.html#QC15 |
| 21:00.32 |
IriX64 |
tried to put
wincad in there, permission denied (shrug) |
| 21:00.32 |
``Erik |
just in case
you NEED to charge 15 at a time |
| 21:01.19 |
Maloeran |
iPods are
like duct tape, one never has quite enough |
| 21:03.45 |
IriX64 |
The novelty
of this picture never wears off for m. |
| 21:03.49 |
IriX64 |
+e |
| 21:06.29 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:07.39 |
IriX64 |
apologies my
own darn fault that denied thing. |
| 21:13.41 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: (log message
trimmed) |
| 21:13.41 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
complete rewrite of the auto_path handling code in support of the
forthcoming |
| 21:13.42 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
tcl/tk upgrade (8.5a5). the logic is entirely changed so that less
arbitrary |
| 21:13.42 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
searching is performed. now the routine attempts to detect whether
it's being |
| 21:13.42 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: run
from a source directory or from an installed location, and
allowing |
| 21:13.44 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
TCLCAD_LIBRARY_PATH to be obeyed for additional paths. this
needs |
| 21:13.46 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
tweaking/testing on other platforms, but the overall approach is a
vast |
| 21:17.45 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: call
TclInitEncodingSubsystem() before Tcl_FindExecutable() in order to
avoid what seems to be a race-condition bug inside
Tcl_FindExecutable() (bizarre and unknown cause, but this works
around the issue) |
| 21:25.06 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: use bu_file_exists()
instead of stat() to see if the file exists |
| 21:25.39 |
brlcad |
the big one
is just about ready |
| 21:33.18 |
brlcad |
given how big
and different the build system changes are, it's almost guaranteed
to break somewhere |
| 21:33.57 |
brlcad |
i already
know that irix is currently busted due to the opennurbs stuff (and
a busted mipspro c++ install), but even for linux, this might take
some tweaking |
| 21:34.19 |
brlcad |
but might as
well shove it in so the testing and fixing can occur in parallel a
little better |
| 21:34.46 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 21:36.00 |
brlcad |
and here I
bet 8.5x6 will come out within a week or two |
| 21:36.13 |
brlcad |
s/x6/a6/ |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (352 files in 19 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:47.08 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 21:47.31 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (563 files in 20 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 21:47.31 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:47.31 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:47.31 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:47.31 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:47.33 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:47.35 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 21:48.21 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (661 files in 17 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 21:48.21 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:48.22 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:48.22 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:48.22 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:48.22 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:48.22 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 21:48.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/ (764 files in 15 dirs): (log
message trimmed) |
| 21:48.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:48.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:48.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:48.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:48.45 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:48.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 21:49.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/library/tzdata/ (270 files in 16
dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:49.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:49.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:49.13 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:49.13 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:49.15 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:49.17 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 21:49.52 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (569 files in 17 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 21:49.52 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:49.52 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:49.52 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:49.52 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:49.54 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:49.56 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 21:50.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (592 files in 21 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 21:50.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive
configure, using |
| 21:50.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure
scripts as needed |
| 21:50.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a
rather |
| 21:50.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together,
including the need |
| 21:50.26 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: to
compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as
well as |
| 21:50.27 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced
maintenance and |
| 22:02.12 |
Maloeran |
Oh my, you
are being very productive today Sean! |
| 22:03.19 |
brlcad |
that's a
couple weeks of effort actually |
| 22:03.54 |
brlcad |
it is one
"changeset", though it does feel good to finally get it into
CVS |
| 22:04.38 |
brlcad |
that's one of
those exceedingly rare examples where it can't be incremental,
entire dependency upgrade |
| 22:06.48 |
``Erik |
*cough*
branch *cough* *cough* O:-) |
| 22:07.36 |
brlcad |
that would
have just delayed it another day overall |
| 22:07.45 |
brlcad |
and then been
dead |
| 22:08.19 |
brlcad |
iiinteresting, http://code.google.com/p/google-gtags/ |
| 22:10.46 |
brlcad |
what we
should have, however, is a STABLE branch .. for folks like Dan and
Lee that need it |
| 22:10.52 |
IriX64 |
``Erik
checkout ftp://ftp.cygwin.com |
| 22:10.55 |
brlcad |
not just a
tag, but an actual branch |
| 22:14.25 |
Maloeran |
Cool.
Interacting with xmms with the command line interface can pop up
error windows on the remote box, but it doesn't say a thing on the
command line |
| 22:15.19 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: upgrade of bundled tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to
8.5a5 |
| 22:16.03 |
brlcad |
or make it
one of the highlights of the next release? |
| 22:17.12 |
louipc |
brlcad: you
can refer to archlinux as arch |
| 22:17.20 |
brlcad |
too late
:) |
| 22:17.25 |
brlcad |
already
referring to it as "archlinux" ;) |
| 22:17.34 |
louipc |
haha that's
fine |
| 22:17.55 |
louipc |
arch is kind
of ambiguous too. could be talking about cpu
'architecture' |
| 22:18.34 |
brlcad |
right, that's
part why I didn't like that |
| 22:18.43 |
brlcad |
what does
config.guess say for archlinux? |
| 22:19.57 |
``Erik |
tesselation
and tnurb stuff isn't done, it's not documented, ...
*shrug* |
| 22:20.04 |
brlcad |
k |
| 22:20.30 |
brlcad |
you did
wireframe and mged edit hooks iirc? |
| 22:20.38 |
brlcad |
(gui
hooks) |
| 22:20.42 |
``Erik |
yeah,
those're working |
| 22:20.50 |
``Erik |
dave just
started dorking with it this morning |
| 22:25.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (Makefile.am PKGBUILD.in
brlcad.install.in brlcad.sh.in): |
| 22:25.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
initial import of packaging files used by Arch Linux, provided by
Loui Chang |
| 22:25.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
(louipc). I took his files and modified them a little so that they
are |
| 22:25.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
auto-populated with configure details, so there are fewer
assumptions (cept |
| 22:25.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
there's no good way to populate the md5 checksum field without
tying this to |
| 22:25.54 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
'make dist' somehow; might just be best to remove
them). |
| 22:26.23 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into the archlinux
directory |
| 22:28.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: create the archlinux files:
Makefile, PKGBUILD, brlcad.install, brlcad.sh |
| 22:28.47 |
louipc |
brlcad:
where's config.guess? |
| 22:30.43 |
brlcad |
louipc: any
package that compiles using configure should have a config.guess
stashed somewhere |
| 22:30.52 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's is
in misc/config.guess |
| 22:31.07 |
brlcad |
just run it,
and it should give the classic gnu monikers for your
system |
| 22:31.20 |
brlcad |
e.g. $
brlcad/misc/config.guess |
| 22:31.21 |
brlcad |
i386-apple-darwin8.8.1 |
| 22:31.53 |
louipc |
oh alright
I'm looking from fresh source 'didn't run ./configure' |
| 22:32.25 |
brlcad |
you probably
have a half-dozen config.guess files on your system ;) |
| 22:33.37 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS AUTHORS): credit Loui Chang (louipc)
with integration of BRL-CAD into the Arch Linux packaging system
with special thanks for the effort |
| 22:33.59 |
louipc |
hehe it's
very vague i686-pc-linux-gnu |
| 22:34.09 |
brlcad |
ah, generic
linux |
| 22:35.19 |
louipc |
I'm pretty
sure the stock archlinux kernel is tweaked a bit |
| 22:35.43 |
louipc |
from
vanilla |
| 22:36.11 |
brlcad |
hm, redhat's
coming up similarly generic too .. probably just doesn't
matter |
| 22:41.48 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548762CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:07.16 |
``Erik |
home at
last |
| 23:07.45 |
``Erik |
config.guess
only sticks around if you ask for something like
AC_CANONICAL_SYSTEM |
| 23:09.40 |
``Erik |
if you wanna
announce meaty-metaballs, knock yourself out... they may change
drastically in the next month or two now that the 'customer' is
finally putting hands on it |
| 23:10.33 |
brlcad |
the
announcement corresponds to the feature not the user |
| 23:11.08 |
``Erik |
<-- just
noting that the feature may have major impetus to change very
soon |
| 23:11.10 |
brlcad |
meaning if it
was done in a usable state, it's probably worth
announcing |
| 23:11.26 |
``Erik |
it works,
mostly |
| 23:11.43 |
``Erik |
um, crank up
mged and 'make blah.s metaball' |
| 23:11.43 |
brlcad |
though
missing those two critical pieces |
| 23:11.50 |
``Erik |
rt it and two
some editing on it |
| 23:12.03 |
``Erik |
it's there...
can't tesselate and can't convert to nurbs |
| 23:12.19 |
brlcad |
actually just
the first really |
| 23:12.26 |
brlcad |
the latter
isn't critical |
| 23:12.33 |
``Erik |
probably
needs a proc-db or two entry, and docs *shrug* |
| 23:12.41 |
``Erik |
but the
evalution formula may change |
| 23:12.47 |
``Erik |
evaluation |
| 23:13.07 |
brlcad |
implementation detail ;) |
| 23:13.10 |
``Erik |
but *shrug*
if you wanna toss a line in the announce, :D |
| 23:13.27 |
brlcad |
nah, I was
going to give it a couple paragraphs writeup, not just a
line |
| 23:13.36 |
brlcad |
but best to
have the tessellation for that really |
| 23:14.27 |
brlcad |
and some
image examples for the few announcement channels that handle rich
announcements |
| 23:15.17 |
``Erik |
hm, I have a
couple images |
| 23:15.36 |
brlcad |
i'd just as
well hold off until next release or after since there's already a
writeup with the license changes |
| 23:15.56 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/niceballs.png |
| 23:16.06 |
``Erik |
and a couple
that were form 1'd for rt06 |
| 23:17.02 |
brlcad |
i would have
just made some up on the fly, spell out brl-cad or somesuch, with
texture and bump mapping |
| 23:17.30 |
``Erik |
hrm |
| 23:17.39 |
``Erik |
well, the
code is in cvs, if you wanna *shurg* :D |
| 23:18.30 |
brlcad |
the
code? |
| 23:18.53 |
brlcad |
oh, well
yeah |
| 23:19.03 |
brlcad |
but again,
not if it's still incomplete |
| 23:19.53 |
brlcad |
(i.e. needing
tess) |
| 23:21.39 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/379059 |
| 23:24.37 |
IriX64 |
ermf... |
| 23:26.19 |
IriX64 |
found where
the error message is coming from. |
| 23:26.53 |
brlcad |
yes, so it's
checking if the mapped file is valid, and aborting |
| 23:27.14 |
IriX64 |
looks like
it. |
| 23:27.23 |
brlcad |
it should
recognize earlier that the mapped file is invalid and terminate
more gracefully |
| 23:27.33 |
brlcad |
the trick is
where in g_dsp does it abort? |
| 23:27.41 |
IriX64 |
does that
routine get called on every file, it must no? |
| 23:28.42 |
IriX64 |
dude? whats
the proper return for error encountered? |
| 23:29.37 |
brlcad |
``Erik: don't
know how many papers you have on the subject, but there were some
great ones last year on tessellation of arbitrary implicit surfaces
using particles that is impressive |
| 23:31.17 |
brlcad |
it would work
exceptionally well for tessellation of metaballs in
particular |
| 23:32.18 |
brlcad |
hmm.. here's
one of the main guy's papers from a couple years ago: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/complex.pdf |
| 23:35.34 |
brlcad |
ahh, and more
recently : http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/voronoi.pdf |
| 23:38.19 |
IriX64 |
wonder if
that'll actually work, oh well. |
| 23:38.40 |
IriX64 |
had to start
this build i'll develop required patience yet. |
| 23:38.46 |
brlcad |
if you can
pinpoint where it aborts, I can probably fix it |
| 23:39.03 |
IriX64 |
man bu.h no
error return on it. |
| 23:39.13 |
IriX64 |
ck_mag |
| 23:40.03 |
IriX64 |
err bu_ck_mag
i think. |
| 23:41.32 |
IriX64 |
if you're
patient, i can let you know if that cheezy fix fixes
it. |
| 23:41.59 |
brlcad |
avoiding the
check isn't interesting .. it aborts there correctly |
| 23:42.21 |
brlcad |
the point is
to find where in g_dsp that it is aborting, detecting that
situation beforehand and just returning a failure
instead |
| 23:42.28 |
brlcad |
if you know
where in g_dsp, I'll take a loot |
| 23:42.29 |
IriX64 |
not avoiding
the check. |
| 23:42.47 |
brlcad |
edits to bu.h
are wrong |
| 23:42.49 |
IriX64 |
line? i
posted it... 1334 i think. |
| 23:43.03 |
brlcad |
in g_dsp.c
? |
| 23:43.07 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 23:43.14 |
IriX64 |
lemme
verify. |
| 23:43.21 |
``Erik |
particles?
hrm, I just outlined 3 "classic" approaches in a project plan a
couple weeks ago... marching cubes, ray shot hack (lee's idea, go
figure) and using tnurbs as an intermediate |
| 23:44.08 |
brlcad |
marching
cubes is the classic |
| 23:44.08 |
IriX64 |
3134 |
| 23:44.13 |
``Erik |
ancient,
even |
| 23:44.18 |
``Erik |
so old that
the patent has expired. |
| 23:44.24 |
brlcad |
ray shot hack
is undoubtedly a variation of marching cubes to make it
work |
| 23:44.40 |
``Erik |
kinda sorta
almost, I suppose |
| 23:44.45 |
IriX64 |
got that line
3134 in dsp_g.c |
| 23:44.50 |
``Erik |
lee's answer
to every geometry problem is to shoot rays through it and
approximate |
| 23:44.54 |
brlcad |
the particles
stuff is impressive |
| 23:44.58 |
brlcad |
and
instant |
| 23:45.17 |
IriX64 |
err
g_dsp.c |
| 23:45.24 |
``Erik |
I grabbed the
newer paper you pasted |
| 23:45.28 |
``Erik |
is it worth
grabbing the older one? |
| 23:45.42 |
brlcad |
IriX64: ah,
hm, interesting |
| 23:45.58 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
older is the basis for the newer |
| 23:46.09 |
brlcad |
hart is like
the main implicit surfaces guy in the field |
| 23:46.12 |
``Erik |
ok,
wgot. |
| 23:46.22 |
brlcad |
http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/ |
| 23:46.33 |
brlcad |
he's got tons
of interesting stuff of relevance |
| 23:47.05 |
brlcad |
but those two
are probably the most relevant for metaballs as they outline an
exact approach |
| 23:47.07 |
``Erik |
hm, uni of
illinois is consistantly a name that pops up in
graphics |
| 23:47.27 |
``Erik |
all cs
things, really :/ mebbe moreso than north carolina |
| 23:48.02 |
``Erik |
perhaps an
odd twist of the midwest mentality... "ain't nothin' to do but
drink and fuck"... and those who can't get tail or booze... code?
:D *duck* |
| 23:49.03 |
brlcad |
you've seen
hart before, he's almost always presenting or organizing at
siggraph |
| 23:51.17 |
``Erik |
if I say in a
session he's spoken at before... I've only been to one
siggraph |
| 23:51.37 |
``Erik |
and I was
pretty heavy on fluid dynamics at that one |
| 23:51.43 |
``Erik |
a bit on high
perf rt |
| 23:51.46 |
brlcad |
ahh, that's
right |
| 00:02.36 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/379119 |
| 00:05.02 |
``Erik |
actually,
bu_free is a tiny bit more complicated, dude |
| 00:05.19 |
IriX64 |
only looked
at the first part :) |
| 00:05.48 |
``Erik |
src/libbu/malloc.c:357 |
| 00:06.01 |
IriX64 |
ty just a
sec. |
| 00:06.11 |
brlcad |
IriX64: you
did pinpoint the error.. a couple lines off, but I see the
problem |
| 00:06.26 |
IriX64 |
glad to
help. |
| 00:09.01 |
``Erik |
swank |
| 00:09.23 |
IriX64 |
a full blown
memory manager ``Erik nice lot of work there. |
| 00:10.24 |
``Erik |
heh, I
surspect the person to blame is in a better place these
days. |
| 00:10.49 |
IriX64 |
heh the hand
having coded moves on eh ? :) |
| 00:12.16 |
IriX64 |
sometimes
returning a null can come in handy :) |
| 00:12.22 |
``Erik |
happens to
the best |
| 00:12.50 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, I never met the man :) the
lore has raised him to godlike status where I work |
| 00:13.28 |
IriX64 |
lore tends to
generate legends. |
| 00:13.43 |
IriX64 |
whether they
like it or not :) |
| 00:14.28 |
``Erik |
so have you
started pulling top level elements from files to try the conversion
circuit? |
| 00:14.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_dsp.c: |
| 00:14.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: fix
a bug, or at least really bad behavior, where calling up the
wireframe of a |
| 00:14.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: dsp
that failed to load any data would cause the app (mged) to abort.
the abort |
| 00:14.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: was
due to a BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE that was occurring before an already
existing |
| 00:14.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
check for whether the data was valid. reordered correctly, and
updated the |
| 00:14.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
error message to say what wasn't found so the user might have an
idea of what to |
| 00:14.42 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: look
for. |
| 00:15.12 |
``Erik |
<-- points
to src/conv/Formats.csv as the map on might be able to do (lossy)
round-trip |
| 00:15.12 |
IriX64 |
man, i still
have to work out a plan of attack for that. |
| 00:15.32 |
IriX64 |
won't promise
anything. |
| 00:16.13 |
``Erik |
well, if you
start digging and run into a problem, submitting a bug report via
the sourceforge interface would be hugely helpful to us poor code
monkeys |
| 00:16.21 |
brlcad |
``Erik: the
lore surrounded him even before he was gone |
| 00:16.24 |
IriX64 |
sure. |
| 00:17.08 |
``Erik |
heh, perhaps
because he was one of the very few tech types who told mgmt types
to go fornicate themselves and survived? :D *duck* |
| 00:17.25 |
brlcad |
not really,
he didn't have anything like that sort of personality |
| 00:17.52 |
brlcad |
he just did
his own thing, that was usually something breakthrough or
insightful and rarely questionable |
| 00:18.09 |
``Erik |
and as far as
I can tell, the real instance was that he was told to do something
and said "no" |
| 00:18.16 |
IriX64 |
and he
obviously did not produce null code (duck) |
| 00:18.16 |
brlcad |
his
personality was exceptionally charismatic |
| 00:18.24 |
``Erik |
and the thing
he was probably told to do was probably excessively
moronic |
| 00:18.48 |
``Erik |
like, say, a
technical person attending a briefing on the fy07 program
build |
| 00:18.49 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 00:18.50 |
brlcad |
well, yeah,
he could do that as well, he more than earned it |
| 00:19.36 |
``Erik |
wendy chewed
me out for skipping starks briefing today, told me I have to attend
the 'makeup' session... so I put an OMP71 in her box for that
entire week off as accrued leave. |
| 00:19.40 |
``Erik |
monday might
be interesting |
| 00:20.48 |
``Erik |
(that week is
actually to accomodate a friend who wants to visit, it just happens
to concide with the briefing) |
| 00:21.03 |
``Erik |
fucking
retarded fucking bullshit |
| 00:24.28 |
brlcad |
that you
apparently care about and let get to you and fume, bitch, and moan
instead of dealing with in more productive ways |
| 00:24.55 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 00:25.32 |
``Erik |
I think I've
done everything I can short of finding new employment |
| 00:25.39 |
brlcad |
seriously,
you either brush it off and ignore/deal with it, or you do
something else (whether it's actively discussing, or going above,
or going elsewhere) |
| 00:26.29 |
brlcad |
as it is,
you're somewhere half-way in between half ignoring but with a lot
of behind the scenes bitching and moaning |
| 00:26.45 |
brlcad |
if you're
really that unhappy, tell them, and tell them again, and
again |
| 00:27.13 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 00:27.17 |
``Erik |
I've been to
bobs office a few times |
| 00:27.20 |
``Erik |
and pauls a
couple |
| 00:27.26 |
``Erik |
I'm not
bitching behind the scenes, dude :D |
| 00:27.32 |
brlcad |
yeah you
do |
| 00:27.36 |
brlcad |
most of the
building does |
| 00:28.02 |
brlcad |
only a couple
people have actually confronted her on topics when they
grate |
| 00:29.32 |
brlcad |
I dunno, I'm
not nearly as insulated from that sort of stuff as you might think,
but I also just don't care so I ignore it or confront when it does
impact me |
| 00:30.07 |
brlcad |
I arrive for
two specific reasons, and those two reasons alone |
| 00:30.18 |
brlcad |
BRL-CAD and
to work with Mike |
| 00:30.45 |
brlcad |
can't do the
latter, obviously |
| 00:34.20 |
brlcad |
you gotta
know what you want and stick to it, and for that want to actually
be something beneficial .. and stay focused on that -- when you do,
the rest just doesn't matter no matter how required things
get |
| 00:35.14 |
brlcad |
anyways,
that's all just my thoughts on life in general .. gotta be
passionate and happy, else what's the point? |
| 00:35.50 |
brlcad |
IriX64: and
thanks again.. that actually was rather helpful for once
;-) |
| 00:38.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent mged shutdown on DSP objects with
no data, thanks to IriX64 for pinpointing the general locality of
code that was causing the shutdown. |
| 00:42.49 |
brlcad |
tis a noble
and good goal, a bit vague/abstract, but something |
| 00:45.11 |
brlcad |
but it also
doesn't quantify exactly what you want to be doing.. |
| 00:46.03 |
brlcad |
it's saying
what you want the impact of whatever you do to be .. which a lot of
people won't jive with or understand or care |
| 00:46.21 |
brlcad |
but putting
it in terms of what you actually want to do, makes a big
difference |
| 00:47.13 |
``Erik |
<-- heavy
in the classic thought in CS... looks back to the 60's and 70's and
can't understand what the flying fuck happened |
| 00:47.14 |
brlcad |
I want to
have brl-cad be the best open source solid modeling system,
handling 2d and 3d, and with dozens of devs and massive community
activity |
| 00:47.35 |
``Erik |
working on
brl-cad is an awfully nice angle and provides the framework to
address serious problems |
| 00:47.37 |
brlcad |
but from a
"doing" perspective, I simply want to work on the code, make
improvements, etc |
| 00:47.48 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 00:48.04 |
brlcad |
this
particular project can be spun to so many angles and interests..
:) |
| 00:48.08 |
``Erik |
being chewed
out for working on brl-cad instead of attending a useless meeting
is... yet one more burr to frustrate and anger. |
| 00:49.03 |
brlcad |
that's where
I think you're letting a distraction get to ya .. and
understandably, but you have grounds to just not care if you keep
the focus |
| 00:49.36 |
``Erik |
I'm already
biased in a degree... last time I let her go unchecked, I spent 60%
of my work life in meetings. |
| 00:50.04 |
``Erik |
so when she
pushes the meeting thing AT ALL, i'm immediately in an extreme
defensive posture |
| 00:51.06 |
``Erik |
(unfortunately, I think the lead pipe I
beat her with to get out of the 60% meeting time issue was the
catalyst for the TSP report) |
| 00:51.19 |
``Erik |
TPS
report |
| 00:51.22 |
``Erik |
rather |
| 00:51.41 |
brlcad |
see, my angle
on that would have just been "look, i'm here to work on brl-cad --
that is my job and interest, listening to starks doesn't help me do
my job any better so I didn't attend -- I have to manage my time
effectively or I'd be in meetings all day every day." |
| 00:52.02 |
brlcad |
and if that
position can't be defended on the technical reasons alone, then
maybe they do have a point |
| 00:52.03 |
``Erik |
yeah, uh...
didn't work for me. |
| 00:52.25 |
``Erik |
but I didn't
push it too awfully far *shrug* |
| 00:54.15 |
brlcad |
well, was it
an actual mandated requirement? |
| 00:54.20 |
``Erik |
I'd imagine
she has a delusion that all gov't employees want to be a bc some
day |
| 00:54.27 |
brlcad |
if it was,
then there's higher ups that you should complain to |
| 00:54.28 |
``Erik |
no, it was
noted that it was happening via email |
| 00:54.36 |
``Erik |
that was
it |
| 00:54.52 |
``Erik |
nothing said
it was mandatory, or even expected... just that if you were
interested, it was happening |
| 00:55.05 |
``Erik |
the NEXT one
is mandatory to gov't employees now, via her decree |
| 00:55.30 |
brlcad |
so it's not
mandatory, you can safely stick to your morals/passion/whatever and
manage your time how you see appropriate |
| 00:55.59 |
brlcad |
that just
makes you subversive |
| 00:56.02 |
``Erik |
if she denies
it cuz I'd miss that meeting, I might talk to bob |
| 00:56.05 |
``Erik |
well |
| 00:56.17 |
``Erik |
the opm71 is
because a friend is going to be in the area that week |
| 00:56.19 |
``Erik |
from
missouri |
| 00:56.28 |
``Erik |
so, y'know, I
wanna hang with her, not go to work |
| 00:56.35 |
brlcad |
yeah yeah,
it's also an excuse and you know it else it would be irrelevant
:) |
| 00:57.01 |
``Erik |
heh,
actually, I'd already submitted and put it on my calendar, then I
found out she was going to try to come out... |
| 00:57.13 |
brlcad |
if you
professionally don't think it's worth your time, then you should
say it |
| 00:57.30 |
brlcad |
and stick to
it on those grounds, regardless of whatever other reasons you might
have for also not going |
| 01:13.06 |
``Erik |
heh, and if I
get shitcanned for that, are you gonna loan me a few grand to get
back on my feet? :D |
| 01:24.34 |
``Erik |
I drive super
slow.. in the ultrafast lane... ! D |
| 01:24.39 |
``Erik |
fun
song |
| 01:25.16 |
Twingy |
I think I'm
gonna repair the demon plane |
| 01:25.21 |
Twingy |
just needs a
new nose |
| 01:25.38 |
``Erik |
... |
| 01:25.48 |
``Erik |
and some
anti-finger equipment. |
| 01:25.52 |
Twingy |
heh |
| 01:25.55 |
Twingy |
I'll mount
the engine upright |
| 01:25.59 |
Twingy |
forget the
cowling |
| 01:26.08 |
Twingy |
that plane
wasn't designed for an OS46 upside down |
| 01:26.11 |
``Erik |
I doubt the
inversion was the issue |
| 01:26.14 |
Twingy |
I don't care
what they say |
| 01:26.19 |
Twingy |
dude |
| 01:26.25 |
Twingy |
the thing was
leaking fuel like an SR71 |
| 01:26.31 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 01:26.41 |
Twingy |
oh yours,
sure |
| 01:26.56 |
``Erik |
yeah, it spit
gas like a mofo even when in a happy place |
| 01:26.57 |
Twingy |
but when you
see the fuel dripping on the ground you got problems |
| 01:26.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:27.14 |
Twingy |
so it was
either cut your finger off or go up in flames |
| 01:27.28 |
``Erik |
flame injurs
slow |
| 01:27.32 |
Twingy |
that's why I
love that plane |
| 01:27.35 |
Twingy |
I
dunno |
| 01:27.37 |
Twingy |
nitromethane |
| 01:27.40 |
Twingy |
a little like
napalm |
| 01:27.54 |
``Erik |
fast
propogation, but reasonably low burn temperature |
| 01:27.57 |
Twingy |
you get that
crap on you and it's like you gotta scrape it off |
| 01:28.01 |
Twingy |
yea, low
temp |
| 01:28.16 |
Twingy |
just HIGHLY
toxic fuems |
| 01:28.20 |
``Erik |
yeah, but
hard suffocation is effective |
| 01:28.28 |
``Erik |
and in open
air *shrug* |
| 01:28.31 |
Twingy |
after you
pass out you'll fall onto the propellar |
| 01:28.41 |
``Erik |
i doubt it's
that fast |
| 01:29.01 |
``Erik |
human brains
function an awfully long time without fresh exygen |
| 01:29.04 |
``Erik |
oxygen |
| 01:29.10 |
Twingy |
Demon-II |
| 01:29.36 |
Twingy |
I all I need
is 2 servos |
| 01:30.03 |
Twingy |
I bought one
of the buddy cables so I can interface my r/c controller to a pic
chip |
| 01:30.10 |
``Erik |
if it's
stupid and over-reactive, y'know, I'll bear the burden. that's cool
with me. |
| 01:30.10 |
Twingy |
...and train
the occaisonal noob |
| 01:30.40 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:30.49 |
``Erik |
most newbs,
the "passover" is good 'nuff |
| 01:31.00 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 01:31.25 |
Twingy |
cause I'm
lazy I'll interface mine with a PIC cheap and pass serial data back
out |
| 01:31.54 |
Twingy |
hehe, I was
stubborn and crashed my first plane and then knew how to
fly |
| 01:32.00 |
Twingy |
twice |
| 01:32.30 |
``Erik |
:D do you
have software that can compenstate for trees on either side of the
landing strip and figure out a cut in and glide path? |
| 01:33.21 |
Twingy |
I stopped at
hobby works in bel air today |
| 01:33.29 |
Twingy |
they have a
decent amount of stuff |
| 01:33.41 |
Twingy |
I bet chuck
would enjoy the trains |
| 01:33.43 |
``Erik |
<--
willing to be the 'newb' and learn from someone more
knowlegeablae |
| 01:33.45 |
``Erik |
oh? |
| 01:34.07 |
``Erik |
a little
google work exposed an electronics store walking distance from
me |
| 01:34.08 |
Twingy |
after you pay
for shipping from tower |
| 01:34.09 |
``Erik |
like |
| 01:34.14 |
Twingy |
that store is
still about 5% more expensive |
| 01:34.17 |
``Erik |
walking
distance fro ME |
| 01:34.29 |
``Erik |
which is
hardly past the beer fridge |
| 01:34.50 |
Twingy |
so you can
grab a sam adams and 555 timer in one trip |
| 01:35.03 |
``Erik |
he |
| 01:35.17 |
``Erik |
the
electronics store is closer than the nearest package
store |
| 01:35.33 |
Twingy |
after I get
my rocket motor built and working I'll try to make an entire plane
on my cnc mill |
| 01:35.35 |
Twingy |
using
gcam |
| 01:36.02 |
``Erik |
put a blade
on to cut balsa? |
| 01:36.20 |
Twingy |
1/8" endmill
at 10k rpm @ 15 ipm will cut like butter |
| 01:36.32 |
Twingy |
single
pass |
| 01:36.46 |
``Erik |
not gonna cut
out die's to press? :D |
| 01:36.55 |
Twingy |
I will
probably do fiberglass instead of monokote though |
| 01:37.04 |
Twingy |
they laser
cut them at the factory |
| 01:37.12 |
``Erik |
if you intend
to make more than a doze of a kit, making the blades to press might
be worth it *shrug* |
| 01:37.14 |
Twingy |
friend of
mine build a 25W cnc laser cutter |
| 01:37.19 |
Twingy |
then moved to
canada |
| 01:37.38 |
Twingy |
laser leaves
a better finish |
| 01:37.45 |
``Erik |
I used to
contemplate moving to canada.. but the news buzz lately isn't
exactly appealing |
| 01:38.07 |
Twingy |
he went there
cause his wife needed surgery |
| 01:38.11 |
``Erik |
of course
lasers are nice, but they might not bte 'right' for mass
production |
| 01:38.20 |
``Erik |
<-- hopes
he and his wife are doign well |
| 01:38.26 |
Twingy |
all the hobby
vendors use laser cnc now for balsa |
| 01:38.40 |
``Erik |
huh |
| 01:38.54 |
Twingy |
scan through
tower, they all say laser cut balsa |
| 01:38.55 |
``Erik |
I guess the
die cut his all history now :/ |
| 01:39.04 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 01:39.19 |
Twingy |
no need to
make new dies with laser cnc |
| 01:39.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:39.36 |
Twingy |
and it's not
exactly like tower is selling 5,000 of every type of plane a
day |
| 01:39.42 |
Twingy |
they probly
sell one or two planes a day |
| 01:43.01 |
``Erik |
of course,
with a mill and a side cutter, no need for dies at all, just
account for the material cut away as dust... |
| 01:43.01 |
Twingy |
maybe 4 or 5
during summer |
| 01:48.36 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 01:52.26 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 01:52.26 |
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| 01:52.26 |
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| 01:52.26 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT
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| 01:52.26 |
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| 01:52.27 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by
irc.freenode.net |
| 01:56.29 |
Twingy |
if they
sprayed the entire wing with a fine mist of CA before coating that
thing would be 3x stronger |
| 02:03.48 |
Twingy |
Total Saved:
$66.90 Net Savings: $-6133.1 Total kWh: 367 Oil Barrels: 0.74
Coal Tonnage: 0.18 Twinkies: 1584 |
| 02:07.19 |
brlcad |
almost a
whole barrel, nifty |
| 02:07.42 |
brlcad |
do you
fluctuate your average against the actual price of crude oil for
the day? |
| 02:07.51 |
brlcad |
that would be
sweet |
| 02:08.06 |
Twingy |
the
conversion is joules of energy, not price |
| 02:08.17 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 02:08.35 |
Twingy |
so it should
be relatively close |
| 02:08.51 |
Twingy |
as in
slightly higher |
| 02:09.01 |
brlcad |
quite a bit
higher by the time you get to 100% |
| 02:09.13 |
brlcad |
barrels
peaked a high at $70 |
| 02:09.20 |
brlcad |
they're at
something like 44 now |
| 02:09.29 |
Twingy |
by this 1
barrel will cost like $90 and a barrel right now costs $70
something I think |
| 02:09.35 |
Twingy |
k |
| 02:09.53 |
Twingy |
gotta factor
in bge's distribution charges and fixed rates |
| 02:10.12 |
brlcad |
and lobbying
interests, ceo fees, etc |
| 02:10.14 |
Twingy |
costs them
like 1.25 barrels in energy for every 1 barrel they deliver due to
losses |
| 02:10.37 |
brlcad |
yeah..
"losses" |
| 02:10.52 |
Twingy |
even at 700kV
over transmission lines there is still considerable
loss |
| 02:11.01 |
Twingy |
especially
once it hits the 480V ground transformers |
| 02:11.12 |
Twingy |
ah |
| 02:12.17 |
Twingy |
I have a
bunch of good ideas for anyone that wants to do a solid modeling
based cam package using brlcad's libs |
| 02:12.25 |
IriX64 |
brlcad:
tcl8.5a? |
| 02:12.57 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
question? |
| 02:13.22 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: you
guys are updating to tcl 8.5a soon? |
| 02:13.40 |
brlcad |
IriX64: that
was the massive commit earlier today |
| 02:13.56 |
IriX64 |
all ready
done then thanks. |
| 02:14.16 |
louipc |
Twingy: that
would be sweet |
| 02:14.40 |
Twingy |
I can tell
you exactly how you would do it with brl-cad's
architecture |
| 02:15.18 |
Twingy |
would require
a custom interface and new intersection routines for some
primitives, but otherwise stock |
| 02:17.34 |
brlcad |
what sort of
new intersection routines? to support g-code? |
| 02:17.43 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: cvs
browse shows libtcl8.3 and libtcl8.4 , no 8.5 |
| 02:17.47 |
Twingy |
plane
interection instead of ray intersection |
| 02:17.59 |
Twingy |
plane-tracing |
| 02:17.59 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
you're looking in the old structure |
| 02:18.08 |
IriX64 |
whup pardon
me. |
| 02:18.09 |
brlcad |
Twingy:
ahh |
| 02:18.17 |
brlcad |
IriX64: look
in the src/other dir |
| 02:18.31 |
Twingy |
but I can
tell you how to do the logistics of generating tool paths from the
plane equations |
| 02:18.53 |
brlcad |
Twingy: I was
thinking that you'd use CSG and intersect each layer with a thin
RPP .. the rasterize the layer with ray-tracing |
| 02:19.18 |
Twingy |
brlcad, if
you wanted to hot-wire it, same thing... |
| 02:19.42 |
Twingy |
but in terms
of generating optimal pocketing code I know how to do
that |
| 02:19.53 |
Twingy |
otherwise
your part will take foreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever to finish |
| 02:20.02 |
brlcad |
what kind of
equation result would you get intersecting a plane against
something like a torus.. |
| 02:20.07 |
Twingy |
lrt vs.
rayforce in terms of time |
| 02:20.38 |
Twingy |
brlcad, you
limit yourself to arb8, tgc, sphere |
| 02:20.43 |
brlcad |
ahh,
hehe |
| 02:20.48 |
brlcad |
that's
cheating |
| 02:20.49 |
Twingy |
for
starters |
| 02:20.54 |
Twingy |
no... |
| 02:21.03 |
Twingy |
that's
supports the native g-codes |
| 02:21.11 |
Twingy |
so you have
optimal tool paths |
| 02:21.18 |
Twingy |
with implicit
definitions |
| 02:21.27 |
Twingy |
other
primitives become parametric |
| 02:21.35 |
Twingy |
and should be
avoided at all cost |
| 02:21.41 |
brlcad |
the tgc is a
good example too .. you end up with soemthing really wonky with
certain tgcs |
| 02:22.12 |
Twingy |
anyway, If
some one gets a hankering to do it I got all the nitty gritty
details worked out in my head |
| 02:23.03 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:23.11 |
Twingy |
afaik gcam is
the most powerful open source cam package |
| 02:23.23 |
brlcad |
I'd like that
too.. but I think the optimal approach is actually to complete the
dual-rep brep support |
| 02:23.35 |
brlcad |
then you'd
actually have exact curves and connectivity for any
slice |
| 02:23.40 |
Twingy |
yep |
| 02:23.58 |
Twingy |
just like you
can decompose a b-spline into beziers, and beziers into
polynomials, and ultimately arcs |
| 02:24.09 |
brlcad |
it's coming
along nicely actually, for the time being |
| 02:24.24 |
Twingy |
I want to
have 3 modes |
| 02:24.38 |
Twingy |
the first
mode, the one I have now, is doing cad with tool paths |
| 02:24.50 |
Twingy |
the second
mode will be importing triangular brep geometries |
| 02:24.53 |
brlcad |
implicit,
explicit brep polygonal, explicit brep sline surface |
| 02:25.00 |
Twingy |
the third
mode will be implicit csg support |
| 02:25.35 |
Twingy |
once I put it
on subversion I hope others will take care of the csg
stuff |
| 02:25.50 |
Twingy |
since the
interface and architecture are fairly mature now |
| 02:25.58 |
brlcad |
csg brep
splines is going to be a bitch |
| 02:26.15 |
Twingy |
I don't think
it will be |
| 02:26.30 |
Twingy |
they
decompose very nicely into arcs |
| 02:26.46 |
Twingy |
and the code
to do it can be optimized quite a bit |
| 02:26.50 |
brlcad |
not in 2D,
but in 3D it's not exactly trivial |
| 02:26.58 |
Twingy |
I'm talking
3d |
| 02:28.00 |
Twingy |
you're
basically generating piecewise spherical patches |
| 02:28.36 |
Twingy |
with C2
continuity since it's quadratic |
| 02:29.15 |
Twingy |
alright, I
need to finish repairing this wing |
| 02:29.20 |
Twingy |
bbl |
| 03:29.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: updated bundled blt to
blt2.4z-patch-2 |
| 04:19.30 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, that
file in incoming *should work on your cygwin setup if you use the
included cygwin1.dll. |
| 07:49.04 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-63-56.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:49.39 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
have improved the Ronja model with a lot of little
screws |
| 07:49.43 |
clock_ |
Now I think
it's complete |
| 09:19.06 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
screenshot for you http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f92.html |
| 10:10.49 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548755FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:08.00 |
``Erik |
irix: I want
to make it work without issues on cygwin... thus the recent
commits. |
| 14:34.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548755FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:05.53 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667286.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:09.05 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix leftover from previous version
separation, need to extract the numbers if we want to check them
directly here. fixes unary operator expected errors. |
| 15:24.28 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer need to replicate tcl's
configure checks since we're using AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS so remove the
dead sections |
| 15:27.41 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/configure.in
tk/unix/configure.in): heh, tcl/tk seem to indicate they need
autoconf 2.59, which is newer than our present 2.52 minimum. there
don't appear to be any post-2.52 macros in use, so reduce the
AC_PREREQ. |
| 16:01.31 |
*** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) |
| 16:01.37 |
lg_ |
hi |
| 16:02.00 |
lg_ |
I have a
basic brlcad modeling question again... |
| 16:04.16 |
brlcad |
howdy |
| 16:04.54 |
lg_ |
is there any
way to do some basic geometrical analysis on cgs-made shapes, such
as finding intersection points etc? |
| 16:04.59 |
lg_ |
hi
brlcad! |
| 16:05.47 |
brlcad |
lg_: yes
there are |
| 16:06.09 |
lg_ |
at the moment
i am doing everything on paper or in 2d cad and use the resulting
coordinates to model in brlcad |
| 16:06.13 |
brlcad |
for that
particular one, nirt is the general tool |
| 16:06.26 |
lg_ |
nirt? |
| 16:06.53 |
brlcad |
nirt fires a
shotline from a given point in a given direction and reports the
starting/ending hitpoints as well as thicknesses |
| 16:07.14 |
brlcad |
if you don't
specify the start/dir, then it uses the viewing
direction |
| 16:07.58 |
brlcad |
other
analytic tools include "rtcheck" to determine if there are any
overlaps, takes a grid size -s parameter (defaults to 50x50 or
512x512 depending on version) |
| 16:08.15 |
lg_ |
say i have to
spheres that intersect and i need the points where the intersection
starts and ends as coordinates |
| 16:08.18 |
lg_ |
two
spheres |
| 16:08.21 |
lg_ |
;-) |
| 16:08.41 |
brlcad |
another is
rtweight which when you've correctly modelled regions, and denote
material properties and provide a density file, computes the
weight/mass, volume, center of gravity, etc |
| 16:09.40 |
brlcad |
lg_: for that
case, I'd shoot a ray from the center of sph1 to the center of
sphere2 |
| 16:09.40 |
brlcad |
that should
give you exactly the start and end |
| 16:09.56 |
lg_ |
a |
| 16:10.25 |
brlcad |
that one is
actually so common that there's a script floating around that
computes it all for you when you specify the two
spheres |
| 16:10.31 |
brlcad |
but I don't
have it on hand atm |
| 16:10.59 |
brlcad |
i can look
for it after the weekend more easily |
| 16:11.53 |
lg_ |
is there any
kind of howto for doing these kind of construction steps? in other
cad's, one uses things like object snaps, but it makes brlcad
really hard to start with when you do not know how to
start |
| 16:13.45 |
brlcad |
lg_: alas,
that's a lot of the introductory polish and user friendliness that
hurts brl-cad .. most of the tricks of the trade are learned by
turning to the expert modeler in the office next door who has done
it 50 times and knows the fastest way |
| 16:14.01 |
brlcad |
or you find
out via the two week training courses in person |
| 16:14.32 |
lg_ |
next door
there is a primary school teacher living |
| 16:14.58 |
brlcad |
from a
world-wide product perspective, we're only starting to acquire that
sort of "self-help" stuff |
| 16:15.01 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 16:15.37 |
brlcad |
the irc
channel, forums, and lists are a good start, but I agree there
needs to be more self-guided instruction |
| 16:17.14 |
brlcad |
that's
actually one of the things that's hard to convey (and even
describe) that gets lots in many users first impression of the
package.. you *can* do most of the things one needs (presuming it
relates to solid modeling) just finding out how to do it is
generally expert knowledge shared by word of mouth |
| 16:18.16 |
brlcad |
something i'm
definitely trying to address in the new interface, more
self-describing tools and if anything just make it easier to
discover what tools/commands/buttons do what and how to use
them |
| 16:18.18 |
Maloeran |
But
fortunately, brlcad's voice can be heard throughout the universe
for anyone who desires so |
| 16:19.42 |
Maloeran |
I think your
patience is impressive really, especially with IriX,
but... |
| 16:20.44 |
louipc |
how about a
wiki? |
| 16:23.36 |
brlcad |
louipc:
already working on it |
| 16:23.41 |
brlcad |
the whole
website actually |
| 16:23.55 |
brlcad |
what's up
there was just splash n' dash |
| 16:24.10 |
brlcad |
there's
another layout with all the bells and whistles coming
together |
| 16:24.22 |
brlcad |
this current
release is actually all that's holding it back |
| 16:27.26 |
louipc |
awesome |
| 16:30.30 |
lg_ |
getting
curious |
| 17:04.42 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: htester needs tcl and
libm |
| 17:06.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: non-mac tcl compiles against
libdl, so add it as a dep in here (since we're static) |
| 19:53.29 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:56.19 |
*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) |
| 20:33.59 |
IriX64 |
erf there's
one in the win directory, allows a compile and link,
but... |
| 20:35.11 |
IriX64 |
won't run
properly. |
| 20:51.20 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.114.73) |
| 23:49.25 |
Maloeran |
What does the
acronym "MTB" stands for? Google isn't helping |
| 23:50.04 |
Maloeran |
If knowledge
of the context could help, it comes from Mark |
| 00:26.25 |
IriX64 |
i'll simply
pastebin the symptoms, and if anybody has time, can you
comment? |
| 01:07.26 |
IriX64 |
is opengl
support new tobrlcad as of 7.8.4? or has it always been there and
im missing it? |
| 02:02.07 |
IriX64 |
do these
tools such as rtedge have a help screen i tried both --help and
-h. |
| 03:49.12 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:36.08 |
brlcad |
IriX64: yes,
please report the bug in here first .. you should generally only
submit formal bug reports for non-custom configurations problems,
and preferably issues that are perfectly repeatable |
| 05:36.33 |
brlcad |
mention the
issue in here first.. I'll let you know when/if you should submit a
more formal report |
| 05:37.55 |
brlcad |
that will
generally only be something that I'm fairly confident is a
prevalent problem .. like mged crashing on certain inputs .. but
NOT build problems -- build problems are rarely bug-report-worthy
as they're usually configuration issues or temporary |
| 05:39.57 |
brlcad |
opengl
support has been there for over a decade, whether it's compiled in
or not depends on how we feel come release-time (I usually try to
disable opengl if I can remember to due to a bug on some platforms)
.. again.. it provides no NEW functionality -- it's just a
different low-level implementation, one of many that all do the
same thing -- don't get caught up on the familiar name |
| 05:40.52 |
brlcad |
help is
provided via manual pages, rarely ever -h --help options .. try
"brlman rtedge" |
| 06:01.02 |
IriX64 |
ty
understood. |
| 06:01.40 |
IriX64 |
found help
after i opened the database... manual. |
| 06:06.34 |
IriX64 |
louipc: Did
you ever use OS/2, I quite liked it when I ran it many years
ago. |
| 06:07.08 |
IriX64 |
cept for the
runaway swap file thing :) |
| 06:09.30 |
IriX64 |
visit
www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 there a picture of it running
there. |
| 06:19.53 |
IriX64 |
That virtual
disk is formmated hpfs. |
| 08:19.45 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:53.39 |
clock_ |
brlcad: is it
OK to define a region as (combination - region)? |
| 08:53.56 |
clock_ |
For example I
have a wall and bolts so I define wall as bricks.c -
bolts.r |
| 08:54.08 |
clock_ |
I mean define
wall.r as bricks.c - bolts.r |
| 08:54.13 |
clock_ |
like there
are holes drilled for the bolts |
| 11:12.09 |
louipc |
IriX64: nope
never used it |
| 13:07.12 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:11.00 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): TCL was moved to
src/other/tcl: include path modified |
| 13:18.46 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: bu_basename
returns a const: variable type fixed (compiler warning) |
| 14:23.18 |
brlcad |
hello
rossberg |
| 14:23.50 |
brlcad |
clock_: it
can be frowned upon, but no -- it's fine to use a region
negatively |
| 14:24.06 |
brlcad |
it'd be an
error to use it positiviely below another region |
| 14:25.52 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:33.11 |
brlcad |
rossberg:
interesting inclusion of strlcpy() .. without a doubt wasn't an old
System V routine (but as good a place as any to put it), but a
curious routine in itself |
| 14:33.35 |
rossberg |
brlcad: can
you compile the current librt/g_brep.cpp? |
| 14:34.15 |
rossberg |
brlcad:
strlcpy can be removed, right? |
| 14:34.33 |
brlcad |
hm,
removed? |
| 14:35.13 |
brlcad |
rossberg: I
can, depends on the platform -- currently know that g_brep fails on
irix due to the -msse -msse2 flags but I've got a local fix for
that |
| 14:35.40 |
brlcad |
but it does
compile on linux and os x as far as I know at the
moment |
| 14:35.55 |
brlcad |
i had
problems compiling it under windows, but hadn't looked into the
errors yet |
| 14:37.15 |
brlcad |
it was easy
enough to disable by hand at the time, which was suitable at the
time as it's still evolving code |
| 14:37.50 |
brlcad |
I don't
really care if strlcpy stays or is removed.. but I thought you
added it? |
| 14:39.51 |
rossberg |
yes I add it,
thats why I'm asking |
| 14:42.09 |
rossberg |
vector.h,
line 42 (the one with friend) looks strange |
| 14:44.50 |
brlcad |
rossberg: oh,
I didn't comment implying to remove strlcpy -- it's fine .. it's
just an 'interesting' function is all .. I hadn't seen it in a
while |
| 14:45.35 |
rossberg |
brlcad:
however, strlcpy isn't in use any more |
| 14:45.56 |
brlcad |
which would
explain why I haven't seen it in a while :) |
| 14:46.20 |
brlcad |
iirc, openbsd
folks wrote it as a strncpy replacement or somesuch |
| 14:46.34 |
``Erik |
brlcad: the
dmg of qemu I was talking about yesterday, http://www.kju-app.org/kju/ |
| 14:55.12 |
brlcad |
impressive |
| 14:55.18 |
brlcad |
iconic hell,
but impressive |
| 14:55.48 |
``Erik |
apple+, and
fix the top display |
| 14:56.13 |
brlcad |
Be still
fails to detect the cdrom to install.. but I see I have other
hardware options to test too |
| 15:02.28 |
brlcad |
drat, the
other PPC hardwares won't even boot from the CD |
| 15:04.32 |
brlcad |
pretty
painless to use though, I like (aside from iconage) |
| 15:05.43 |
``Erik |
I haven't
figured out clean ways to interface its disk image format, though,
I'm not sure if it's a raw disk image or if there's a header or
what :/ |
| 15:06.23 |
``Erik |
but I only
looked for a second *shrug* :) |
| 15:07.30 |
brlcad |
i don't
really care what they do so long as it's easy to get data in/out
somehow |
| 15:07.48 |
brlcad |
the import
from virtual pc is interesting |
| 15:08.04 |
brlcad |
i could use
that to import my old images .. |
| 15:09.59 |
``Erik |
<-- has
script fu to generate raw disk images for his os, not terribly keen
on rewriting all that |
| 16:14.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/fast4-g.c: (log message
trimmed) |
| 16:14.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
massive restructuring of the code. functions are defined in
visibility order so |
| 16:14.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
declarations are unnecessary, functions are made static so they
don't collide |
| 16:14.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: with
librt's similar (but not identical) importFg4Section.c
symbols |
| 16:14.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
(Add_bot_face, do_trid, do_quad, and do_tri functions; grid_pts
variable), |
| 16:14.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
rename aforementioned and others with an f4_ prefix just to
entirely avoid the |
| 16:14.52 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
naming confusion, reorder macros, defines, static vars, and
functions into |
| 16:19.08 |
brlcad |
er always
attempt to build g_brep.c |
| 16:57.07 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: have configure check for the
-msee and -msse2 gcc options, provide them together as SSE to the
makefiles |
| 17:37.28 |
brlcad |
IriX64: that
was fixed in cvs .. and you should probably message me in here if
you want me to notice |
| 17:37.35 |
brlcad |
unless it's a
private matter |
| 17:39.11 |
IriX64 |
where in cvs
brlcad? |
| 17:39.41 |
brlcad |
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad |
| 17:39.45 |
IriX64 |
im in rise
observer i dont see it. |
| 17:39.48 |
brlcad |
select the
'code' tab |
| 17:40.11 |
brlcad |
yep, that's a
known problem with the source release |
| 17:40.19 |
brlcad |
was fixed
about six months ago |
| 17:40.32 |
IriX64 |
ty ill get it
from rise slave. |
| 17:41.20 |
brlcad |
there isn't a
splash.h in rise slave |
| 17:41.30 |
IriX64 |
then
where? |
| 17:41.36 |
brlcad |
... |
| 17:41.38 |
brlcad |
it's in
cvs |
| 17:41.51 |
brlcad |
it's ONLY in
cvs at the moment at least until the next release |
| 17:42.11 |
brlcad |
don't fear
the cvs .. it's not that hard to work with |
| 17:42.15 |
IriX64 |
hah goof that
i am im in the wrong place :) |
| 17:45.53 |
IriX64 |
btw any
guesstimate as to how soon you'll release 7-10? |
| 17:50.22 |
brlcad |
hopefully
within a few days |
| 17:51.57 |
brlcad |
when someone
keeps asking questions about a header and posts urls to frivolous
pastebins, that slows things down :P |
| 17:52.17 |
IriX64 |
heh ``Erik
stop doing that ;) |
| 17:53.43 |
IriX64 |
wouldn't it
be nice if this worked -- CFLAGS='-Wl,-Ai386,-OS=freebsd'
./configure ;) |
| 17:55.27 |
IriX64 |
it would
produce messages such ass gcc -Ai386 linker file not used because
linking not done. |
| 17:57.16 |
IriX64 |
err input
file. |
| 17:58.04 |
brlcad |
yes, such
ass |
| 18:02.07 |
IriX64 |
the whole
project:) |
| 18:02.54 |
brlcad |
smells like
teen spirit |
| 18:04.08 |
IriX64 |
rosewate and
honey :) |
| 18:04.13 |
IriX64 |
rosewater
too |
| 18:10.00 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/385183
<--- im a slow typist but i envision something like
this. |
| 18:10.30 |
brlcad |
I really
don't see what the point of that is? |
| 18:10.41 |
IriX64 |
cross
compiling. |
| 18:10.43 |
brlcad |
those are
just error messages |
| 18:10.57 |
IriX64 |
warnings. |
| 18:11.31 |
brlcad |
right .. but
still a "mistake" nonethelss |
| 18:11.34 |
IriX64 |
on the link
pass there would be no such warning. |
| 18:11.43 |
brlcad |
you're
specifying linker flags to the compiler |
| 18:11.51 |
brlcad |
when they
should just be specified to the linker |
| 18:11.56 |
IriX64 |
passing them
on to the linker. |
| 18:12.09 |
brlcad |
make them
LDFLAGS instead |
| 18:12.18 |
IriX64 |
can use
either. |
| 18:12.40 |
brlcad |
you "can",
but one is erroneous.. hence all the 'warnings' |
| 18:12.50 |
IriX64 |
errr
true. |
| 18:13.02 |
IriX64 |
but the point
is gcc doen't crash. |
| 18:13.15 |
IriX64 |
have to
support -Wl |
| 18:14.48 |
brlcad |
a lot of
things don't crash gcc .. that was the point? |
| 18:15.04 |
IriX64 |
compatibility. |
| 18:15.20 |
IriX64 |
so you can
take anybodys project and go. |
| 18:15.39 |
brlcad |
go
where? |
| 18:16.16 |
IriX64 |
hopefully
what you're trying to compile and link for :) |
| 18:16.46 |
brlcad |
why not just
compile and link there? |
| 18:17.31 |
IriX64 |
its fraught
;) |
| 19:13.43 |
IriX64 |
fraught with
danger... there's just no arguing with a word like fraught... go
see the movie. :) |
| 19:14.05 |
IriX64 |
pooh's
heffalump movie. |
| 19:17.11 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/385269
issues remain sigh. |
| 19:19.53 |
``Erik |
uhhhh, yeah,
uh, that'd be expected |
| 19:20.11 |
``Erik |
if you run
"file.o", it'll tell you it's a PE file |
| 19:20.14 |
``Erik |
er |
| 19:20.18 |
``Erik |
"file
pret.o" |
| 19:20.34 |
``Erik |
just because
you ASK it to compile another format does NOT make it a
cross-compiler or cross-linker |
| 19:20.58 |
IriX64 |
man pret.o is
an object file cannot run it. |
| 19:21.08 |
``Erik |
uh huh... but
it's a PE object file |
| 19:21.11 |
``Erik |
not an ELF
object file |
| 19:21.25 |
``Erik |
you have the
command "file.exe", right? seriously, use it... a
lot... |
| 19:21.36 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 19:23.27 |
IriX64 |
the entry
point of any executable examines system you're running on and says
" i am an OS/2 pm app" for instance. |
| 19:24.04 |
IriX64 |
but it will
*always run on *my system. |
| 19:24.16 |
IriX64 |
because i
like to test the code too. |
| 19:24.26 |
IriX64 |
meaning the
project i compiled. |
| 19:24.40 |
IriX64 |
_main
__main. |
| 19:24.56 |
IriX64 |
my pret.exe
is 44k. |
| 19:25.13 |
IriX64 |
and its just
a hello world program. |
| 19:25.36 |
``Erik |
actually, the
system examines the first couple of bytes of an application you ask
to run (the "file magic", what file.exe shows you a human version),
if it's something the kernel binfmt stuff groks, it'll extract the
entry point. |
| 19:26.06 |
IriX64 |
so its
doable? |
| 19:26.08 |
``Erik |
"main" means
nothing to PE, ELF, QMAGIC, MZ, ... it's actually a stub for libc
to cope with |
| 19:26.09 |
``Erik |
no |
| 19:26.33 |
``Erik |
because the
second you try to bind a library or make a system call, it'll be
confused. |
| 19:27.08 |
IriX64 |
how there are
effectivly 2 exe's in there. |
| 19:27.30 |
``Erik |
take, for
example, printing something at a kernel level... using the write(2)
function (syscall)... on your machine, you'll move things into
registers, then call interrupt 0x80 |
| 19:27.54 |
IriX64 |
interrupt
80? |
| 19:27.56 |
``Erik |
sorry,
interrupt 0x21... windows/dos uses int 0x21 |
| 19:28.06 |
``Erik |
linux will
move things into registers and call interrupt 0x80 |
| 19:28.19 |
``Erik |
x86 bsd will
move things onto the stack and call interrupt 0x80 |
| 19:28.26 |
``Erik |
they all talk
very differently |
| 19:28.27 |
IriX64 |
the linux
code is part of the file ``Erik, itll be right. |
| 19:29.03 |
IriX64 |
windows+linux
you run the one for *target system unless running on
mine. |
| 19:29.19 |
IriX64 |
i screwed up
and put my machine first. |
| 19:29.33 |
IriX64 |
should have
put target first but ... |
| 19:30.20 |
``Erik |
unless your
kernel binary format reader understands the format your file is, it
should just stop and say "I don't know this". If it DOES know what
format it is, it can either ATTEMPT to work with it, or say it
isn't doable. |
| 19:30.37 |
IriX64 |
agreed. |
| 19:30.39 |
``Erik |
if I try to
run a mac ELF binary on my x86 fbsd machine, it'll say "wrong ISA,
go away" |
| 19:30.52 |
``Erik |
if I try to
run my fbsd ELF binary on my windows machinee, it'll say "uh? not
even gonna try" |
| 19:30.55 |
``Erik |
and visa
versa |
| 19:31.43 |
IriX64 |
well if you
get some of my stuff, let me know if it says cannot execute binary
file :) |
| 19:31.49 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:32.14 |
``Erik |
you can see
it for yourself... use the "file.exe" program to tell you what your
file is |
| 19:32.37 |
IriX64 |
but if
systems play by the rules, I still maintain its doable |
| 19:32.49 |
``Erik |
on my
'workhorse' machine, file tells me this: mged: ELF 64-bit LSB
executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked
(uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 19:33.12 |
``Erik |
and my
desktop says: mged: Mach-O executable ppc |
| 19:33.33 |
IriX64 |
the object
file is a MS Windows COFF intel 80386 object file. |
| 19:35.17 |
``Erik |
ok, so it's a
COFF/PE x86 windows binary... the only systems I know of that will
use those files are: windows, the "wine" abi translator, and uhhh,
what's the name of it... skyos? |
| 19:35.38 |
``Erik |
OS/2 used a
COFF variant, but was 16b only, I think :/ |
| 19:36.03 |
``Erik |
not skyos,
reactos, my bad |
| 19:36.24 |
``Erik |
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html |
| 19:37.52 |
IriX64 |
gonna go hunt
up *your file command, mine sucks... bbiab. |
| 19:40.52 |
``Erik |
$ file.exe
/bin/ls.exe |
| 19:40.54 |
``Erik |
/bin/ls.exe:
MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable not
relocatable |
| 19:51.26 |
brlcad |
you'd think
after doing this for the third or fourth time over the years,
woulda scripted something better by now |
| 19:53.12 |
brlcad |
10 change
libadd 20 change configure.ac 30 compile 40 change ldadd 50
observe error 60 goto 30 400 times |
| 19:53.44 |
``Erik |
you'da
thunk |
| 19:53.45 |
``Erik |
t |
| 19:53.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am
tk/Makefile.am): include makefile defs, for "depends"
target |
| 19:55.18 |
``Erik |
all praise
buckethead!!! |
| 19:55.18 |
brlcad |
ack |
| 19:55.28 |
brlcad |
if you
include makefile defs, it'll recurse into unix dir and fail build
on a make fast |
| 19:55.49 |
``Erik |
eck |
| 19:55.56 |
brlcad |
that's why
those stub rules are there, to halt the recursion |
| 19:56.41 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:57.22 |
``Erik |
bett4r? |
| 19:57.44 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am
tk/Makefile.am): change depends to depend on all-am to avoid
recursive issue |
| 19:58.22 |
brlcad |
should do the
trick |
| 19:59.10 |
brlcad |
yay, finally
on proc-db .. almost done |
| 20:02.18 |
brlcad |
what sucks
nuts is that will probably want/need to do this all over again down
the road.. the whole library listing woes stem from having some
platforms needing libs to decl and others not wanting .. keeping
track at link time that librt implies needing RT, BN, BU, and SYSV
on the ldadd for example |
| 20:03.08 |
brlcad |
*always* ..
so you either put that in the lib as a libadd (which now causes
woes with static libs and tcl/tk since they're static) or you list
during ldadd |
| 20:03.57 |
brlcad |
anyhow.. this
will probably work just fine for now until we hit platform that
requires the libs to be decl'd (aix I think) |
| 20:04.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: change
dependancy to libfb, SHOULD snarf in tcl if necessary via
libbu |
| 20:04.17 |
``Erik |
hrmph |
| 20:07.00 |
brlcad |
with the new
layout, that won't necessarily be true any longer -- basically
condensing the libadd's down to nothing and pushing the decl's to
the link line |
| 20:08.12 |
brlcad |
e.g. in my
version here, libtclcad is only got tclstub left and that would
have to be pushed down if anything needed to actually use the stubs
interface in app code |
| 20:24.18 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (proc-db/apply-mdb.c lgt/apply-mdb.c):
apply-mdb.c is not a procedural database, doesn't belong in
proc_db. moved from src/proc_db to src/lgt/. |
| 20:24.54 |
brlcad |
going to be
broken for a couple minutes for that last commit, the makefiles
contain too many other changes |
| 20:38.37 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/apply-mdb.c: on second thought, just
declare the code obsolete. mat_Open_Db() and friends are nowhere to
be found, not worth the effort to find for this simple
snippet. |
| 21:18.26 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/nmgxplode.c: all the rukus about
nmgxplode not compiling .. yet the program doesn't do a damn thing.
looks like the start of something that was never even fully
started. delete the damn turd. |
| 21:22.47 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:47.42 |
Maloeran |
Ahah,
neat |
| 22:02.49 |
brlcad |
cheese? |
| 22:02.58 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: reorder things
in the record to keep like types together (breaks binary
compatability with previous metaball primitives) |
| 22:03.17 |
``Erik |
something
like that |
| 22:13.33 |
``Erik |
now that's
interesting |
| 22:28.31 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:29.53 |
``Erik |
heh, I've
never seen programs die from x=malloc(100);x[0]=0;free(x); (while
working fine everywhere else) |
| 22:33.54 |
``Erik |
ahhhhhh,
suddenly a lot more makes sense. heh. edsol is one skeery
beast |
| 22:34.56 |
brlcad |
``Erik: fyi,
bu_malloc and friends are guaranteed to never return NULL so you
never have to error check the condition |
| 22:37.49 |
Maloeran |
``Erik, under
what circumstances? |
| 22:38.37 |
Maloeran |
The memory
returned by malloc() will always be valid. If Linux really is out
of memory, it will kill processes, perhaps yours, but the memory
will still be valid |
| 22:42.40 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
that's a rather unrelated statement regarding malloc() .. and
behavior specific to linux, not posix |
| 22:43.58 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's
highly specific to Linux. I'm guessing Erik's stabbing of Tux was
related to his malloc() complain |
| 22:43.59 |
brlcad |
malloc()
could just as readily return NULL (and readily will under plenty of
situations) even under linux |
| 22:44.06 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 22:45.18 |
brlcad |
he just makes
up excuses to jab at stuff like that ;) |
| 22:46.22 |
brlcad |
my comment
was regarding to the commit he made just a little bit ago.. had a
bu_malloc() return value checking null.. which it will never be in
brl-cad |
| 23:30.12 |
``Erik |
I was
grousing about an internal crash in free(), actually, int_free() I
think? I believe I may've been a little loose around the boundries
O:-) |
| 23:39.24 |
IriX64 |
anybody need
a stock gcc for winblows? |
| 23:39.45 |
IriX64 |
needs
cygwin1.dll tho and a couple of others. |
| 23:40.15 |
Maloeran |
Hrm, people
can just download mingw or cygwin for that? |
| 23:40.31 |
IriX64 |
sure. |
| 23:41.03 |
IriX64 |
4.12
neat. |
| 23:41.27 |
Maloeran |
And due to
the nature of windows "security", you'll never find anyone
accepting a binary executable for that platform |
| 23:47.09 |
IriX64 |
haha just
playing around, not intented to be serious. |
| 23:47.29 |
IriX64 |
right now it
compiles but i cant find the executable, go figure. |
| 23:56.15 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/385641
<---- have a peek :) |
| 00:14.01 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/.cvsignore: ignore
brep_test |
| 01:03.27 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (21 files in 21 dirs): use the
-fexception flag when necessary (osX/x86) |
| 01:06.14 |
brlcad |
bizzare.. I
don't see why would those need -fexecption |
| 01:06.54 |
brlcad |
and I've been
building successfully on osx/x86 |
| 01:08.41 |
``Erik |
they broke on
mine *shrug* |
| 01:08.46 |
``Erik |
do you have
opennurbs built into your librt? |
| 01:08.54 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 01:09.00 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 01:09.12 |
``Erik |
must have
something different in the env or something |
| 01:10.48 |
brlcad |
but I mean
even the need for the flag doesn't make sense .. exception handling
code can only be generated by the c++-compiled code .. maybe if
libtool is for some reason linking in librt and/or open nurbs
static, I could see |
| 01:11.11 |
brlcad |
was there a
correllation? was that everything that linked RT or
something? |
| 01:11.15 |
``Erik |
*shrug* I
read the docs on the flag, ummm |
| 01:11.36 |
``Erik |
I wasn't
paying attention to that, I know some of them had only some stuff
in the dir needing it |
| 01:11.55 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:12.19 |
``Erik |
a couple
things are getting the flag when they don't need it because 25 of
the 28 things needed it and I figured keeping the automake file
cleaner was more important *shrug* |
| 01:13.36 |
brlcad |
i mean more
along the lines of if it's opennurbs propagating the need via some
libtool behavior, it could also be stuffed into the OPENNURBS
symbol |
| 01:14.16 |
brlcad |
but to date,
I hadn't seen a single failure other than linking static
binaries |
| 01:14.29 |
``Erik |
once
autogen.sh finishes and I get it configured up again, I'll look
into that |
| 01:15.28 |
brlcad |
linking
static made total sense .. almost implies that openNURBS compiled
static or something (or libtool thought it needed to resolve, or
something) |
| 01:15.49 |
brlcad |
not really
complaining, just would like to understand it |
| 01:15.57 |
brlcad |
to avoid
it |
| 01:29.02 |
brlcad |
I should have
the COPYING/INSTALL clobbering (re)fixed again here shortly too,
f'ing automake |
| 01:35.26 |
``Erik |
phark, I
musta had and old binary of librt or opennurbs or something
:/ |
| 01:39.03 |
Maloeran |
Eh cool. A
chunk of Survice's fire modelling code is written in Java, and that
chunk of code is windows only |
| 02:06.40 |
IriX64 |
dm-ogl has
issues. |
| 02:07.52 |
IriX64 |
ogl_choose_visual ogl_open ogl_close exist
elsewhere man. |
| 02:08.32 |
brlcad |
``Erik: make
sure my recent src/librt/Makefile.am change didn't accidentally
disable g_brep/OBJ_BREP .. looks like it's on here, but I haven't
tried a run-time test yet |
| 02:09.23 |
IriX64 |
rename those
3 bwish will compile just fine. |
| 02:09.30 |
brlcad |
the next
release will likely be --disable-opennurbs just to keep things
consistent so it's not a big deal either way |
| 02:10.13 |
brlcad |
IriX64: is
there any cohesion to your thought processes? what ARE you talking
about?? |
| 02:10.58 |
IriX64 |
the file
dm-ogl has functions in it that clash with others |
| 02:11.04 |
brlcad |
seriously, it
sounds like you're on weed .. and I can't tell if you've got a
compilation error with 4.1.2 or are fooling around |
| 02:11.24 |
brlcad |
with others
in what? |
| 02:12.03 |
IriX64 |
whatever
library youre linking against in bwish, its gone noew or id tell
you. |
| 02:12.11 |
IriX64 |
the fix is to
fix dm-ogl |
| 02:12.50 |
brlcad |
that might
make the problem "go away", but I'm not going to change those
function names without knowing what the problem is |
| 02:13.03 |
IriX64 |
multiple
definitions. |
| 02:13.28 |
brlcad |
and that's
where you need to say .. where ;) |
| 02:13.33 |
IriX64 |
at link time
of bwish |
| 02:13.42 |
brlcad |
not the
symbols, and not *when* |
| 02:13.45 |
IriX64 |
ok
;) |
| 02:14.01 |
IriX64 |
ill learn
:) |
| 02:14.25 |
brlcad |
there are
symbols from N multiple places, according to what you said .. what
are those places (which files) |
| 02:14.33 |
brlcad |
it could be a
simple linking issue |
| 02:14.40 |
brlcad |
or an issue
with your configure arguments |
| 02:14.47 |
brlcad |
or an issue
with code assumptions |
| 02:14.54 |
brlcad |
or some
combination thereof |
| 02:15.22 |
brlcad |
somehow I
suspect you've got a static debug build going or
something |
| 02:15.26 |
IriX64 |
dm-ogl and i
lost where they're first defined, thought it was just this code so
i didn't note it, ill try again if this compile
finishes. |
| 02:16.30 |
IriX64 |
how about
this show stopper sdi_dep.c device.h, no such file or
directory. |
| 02:16.46 |
brlcad |
sdi_dep.c
?? |
| 02:16.52 |
IriX64 |
sgi |
| 02:17.41 |
brlcad |
in which
dir? |
| 02:18.08 |
IriX64 |
src/fbed |
| 02:19.15 |
brlcad |
er.. you have
HAS_SGIGL defined?? |
| 02:19.25 |
IriX64 |
just a sec
ill check |
| 02:19.36 |
brlcad |
grep
HAS_SGIGL include/brlcad_config.h |
| 02:20.03 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 02:20.16 |
brlcad |
it should NOT
be defined for you .. so either the configure check detected
incorrectly, or you've been messing with something.. |
| 02:21.21 |
IriX64 |
all i messed
with was the presence/not presence of ogl. |
| 02:21.36 |
IriX64 |
i have it and
it was coming up false. |
| 02:26.51 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you might have forced the wrong thing on |
| 02:27.58 |
brlcad |
i can't
imagine you having a -lgl that has getvideo() |
| 02:45.45 |
IriX64 |
but it has
gl_enable(). |
| 02:47.04 |
IriX64 |
but im
probably all wet, ill revisit it later, now im compiling my first
love gcc. |
| 02:47.13 |
IriX64 |
right now i
mean. |
| 02:47.31 |
brlcad |
there are
multiple gl libraries |
| 02:47.39 |
IriX64 |
true |
| 02:47.45 |
brlcad |
it sounds
like you forced on the wrong ones |
| 02:47.56 |
brlcad |
you don't
have the sgi gl library |
| 02:48.02 |
brlcad |
hence the
error |
| 02:48.10 |
IriX64 |
quite
probably you're right |
| 02:48.53 |
IriX64 |
gotta test my
new baby, BRL-CAD comes to mind ;) |
| 03:01.53 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669659.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:41.47 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 03:43.51 |
IriX64 |
somebody
says... so put them in :) |
| 04:06.18 |
louipc |
Britney_Spears was going to talk to me in
##freebsd. I had to uh kind of go to that level yeaah |
| 04:06.59 |
louipc |
*kind of had
to go.. |
| 04:11.03 |
louipc |
you have to
do little bits of many tasks at a time |
| 04:11.28 |
IriX64 |
heh i get
stuck on the first little bit |
| 04:11.31 |
louipc |
I seem to
have trouble making sentences now |
| 04:11.43 |
IriX64 |
get in
line |
| 04:11.59 |
Maloeran |
This may
trash your brain's cache memory though, better use fairly large
time chunks |
| 04:12.48 |
IriX64 |
the brain is
the spark of our faith |
| 04:13.21 |
IriX64 |
we're all
born with it, it's just that somehow some of us lose
it. |
| 04:14.16 |
brlcad |
louipc is
really just a teenager girl in disguise |
| 04:14.52 |
brlcad |
irc: where
the men are men, the women are men, and little girls are fbi
agents |
| 04:17.13 |
IriX64 |
actually have
a relative named brandy. |
| 04:17.22 |
IriX64 |
my cousins
wife |
| 04:18.33 |
PrezKennedy |
irix... wasnt
that an SGI workstation from the 80's? |
| 04:20.05 |
Maloeran |
Close, it's
the name of the operating system |
| 04:20.36 |
PrezKennedy |
still
around? |
| 04:21.00 |
IriX64 |
70's
:) |
| 04:21.37 |
IriX64 |
Silicon
Graphics Inc, you remeber? |
| 04:21.45 |
IriX64 |
remember
too. |
| 04:22.22 |
Maloeran |
I think Irix
is fairly dead these days |
| 04:22.26 |
PrezKennedy |
before my
time... but i played Doom and dogfight when i was young |
| 04:22.45 |
IriX64 |
still have a
copy of doom |
| 04:22.58 |
IriX64 |
son played it
a lot |
| 04:23.03 |
Maloeran |
Actually,
Irix 6.5 came out in 1998, latest stable release 6.5.30 August
2006 |
| 04:23.24 |
PrezKennedy |
i have doom
for PC now |
| 04:23.25 |
IriX64 |
the fount of
all knowlede spoke ;) |
| 04:23.28 |
``Erik |
the name of
the OS, actually, not the workstation |
| 04:23.33 |
PrezKennedy |
and i have
the windows port of dogfight for PC |
| 04:23.47 |
IriX64 |
man i don't
know squatt about Irix. |
| 04:24.17 |
``Erik |
and the first
irix was a bsd 4.3 variant in '88 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irix |
| 04:24.32 |
Maloeran |
Poor SGI, how
is it doing these days? |
| 04:24.41 |
``Erik |
sysV+bsd43
rather |
| 04:24.49 |
``Erik |
pink listing
last I heard, mal... |
| 04:24.58 |
Maloeran |
Pink listing?
What's that? |
| 04:25.05 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran, I
would know this how? |
| 04:25.50 |
PrezKennedy |
i thought
they were being delisted |
| 04:26.00 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
it's an invite to a Britney Spears birthday party |
| 04:26.22 |
louipc |
Britney
Spears uses FreeBSD |
| 04:26.48 |
PrezKennedy |
Britney
Spears uses Windows 3.11 for Workgroups |
| 04:26.54 |
PrezKennedy |
and i use the
term "uses" loosely |
| 04:27.22 |
brlcad |
netcraft
doesn't confirm it |
| 04:27.28 |
brlcad |
says she's
running linux :) |
| 04:27.59 |
``Erik |
pink listing
is the 'probationary' before being delisted... looks like sgi went
into chap11 and back out, hopefully their recovery stays on track
o.O |
| 04:28.25 |
brlcad |
the reorg and
focus on altix was a good decision |
| 04:28.42 |
brlcad |
it's their
only remaining niche that they haven't sold off the intellectual
rights to at this point |
| 04:28.58 |
brlcad |
but still a
long shot |
| 04:29.01 |
``Erik |
heh,
unfortunately the altix uses itaniums :) |
| 04:29.24 |
``Erik |
if they'd
gone with opterons, they'd probably be a bit better off |
| 04:30.36 |
brlcad |
for that
niche, it probably doesn't matter too much |
| 04:30.42 |
Maloeran |
Intel really
made a mess with their Itaniums, several companies believed in this
new architecture |
| 04:30.45 |
brlcad |
the
single-image scalability is their bread winner |
| 04:31.13 |
brlcad |
the first
crop of itaniums was horrid, I2 was much better |
| 04:31.40 |
Maloeran |
Even
Microsoft created this interpreted C# thing for windows binaries to
work equally on ia32 and ia64, which of course is now useless with
ia32/amd64, although they got a lot of people hooked to it
somehow |
| 04:31.48 |
``Erik |
if intel
would've sold 'em cheaper (loss-leader style instead of high markup
'premium' at first), things robably woulda been different
:) |
| 04:32.33 |
Maloeran |
Yes, Itaniums
were way too expensive, totally out of range of ordinary
mortals |
| 04:34.33 |
Maloeran |
Even later, I
don't understand why they didn't cut price by 70-85% when Opterons
came around, the outcome was getting really obvious |
| 04:35.04 |
Maloeran |
The
instruction set was great, the architecture was neat, I really wish
we could have moved away from this x86 cludge |
| 04:41.45 |
IriX64 |
err
athlon/xp |
| 04:42.01 |
PrezKennedy |
gnight
folks |
| 04:42.14 |
IriX64 |
knight
:) |
| 04:42.19 |
IriX64 |
ah
well. |
| 04:44.58 |
IriX64 |
if ibm had
selected motorola instead of intel, none of the segment stuff
woulda ever been necessary. |
| 04:45.52 |
IriX64 |
pdp11 on a
chip, gotta love it. (6502) |
| 04:46.52 |
IriX64 |
anybody
remeber the NEC v20? |
| 04:47.06 |
IriX64 |
z80 and 8088
on one chip. |
| 05:00.56 |
``Erik |
6502 was MOS,
not motorola |
| 05:01.48 |
IriX64 |
err? |
| 05:02.37 |
IriX64 |
lemme check
my cpu reference :) |
| 05:02.44 |
``Erik |
the dudes who
made teh 6800 quit motorola, started their own co and started
making new chips |
| 05:03.04 |
``Erik |
and
commodores used the 6502 and it's family for the vic, c64, c128,
.... |
| 05:03.10 |
IriX64 |
6502 was put
out by motorola |
| 05:03.32 |
IriX64 |
atari line
also used 6502 |
| 05:03.44 |
``Erik |
motorola
chips are 68* |
| 05:03.53 |
IriX64 |
now
yes |
| 05:04.10 |
``Erik |
6501 was pin
compatible with the (older) 6800, then there was a lawsuit, the
6502 was a pin incompatible version |
| 05:04.24 |
``Erik |
according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502 |
| 05:04.31 |
IriX64 |
dude... |
| 05:05.17 |
IriX64 |
wikipedia....
pfffffft |
| 05:05.19 |
``Erik |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600
points to MOS, too |
| 05:05.21 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 05:06.41 |
IriX64 |
first one
though was an ohio scientific endeavor. |
| 05:07.35 |
IriX64 |
addiction
calls, bbiab :( |
| 06:36.11 |
*** join/#brlcad cad94
(n=51df8a12@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:36.22 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:46.53 |
brlcad |
my spidey
sense tingles |
| 09:31.00 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed) |
| 09:31.00 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
major update. this change adds support for protected recursive
build |
| 09:31.00 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
preparations, saving copies of all the relevant COPYING/INSTALL
files that might |
| 09:31.00 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: get
stomped on by automake/autoreconf (EVEN WHEN USING
AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS). the |
| 09:31.00 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
files are even still stashed into memory too by using tricksy
path-specific |
| 09:31.02 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
variables. this fix will restore the files correctly regardless of
whether |
| 09:31.04 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
autoreconf or manual steps are taken. t'is a royal hassle just to
compensate |
| 11:01.46 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.177.198) |
| 11:35.57 |
*** join/#brlcad rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:50.10 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: the spezialization is
friend, not the template |
| 11:59.28 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/ (vector.h vector_fpu.h
vector_x86.h): VC++ 6.0 does not like the (redundant) struct
keyword in connection with a template |
| 13:08.04 |
brlcad |
rossberg:
sorry, i missed the connection that it was the basename() code that
started the strlcpy() .. |
| 13:08.12 |
brlcad |
i thought you
had used strlcpy somewhere |
| 13:08.22 |
brlcad |
my
confusion |
| 13:08.57 |
brlcad |
all makes
sense now since those basename sources were pulled from openbsd
iirc |
| 13:14.27 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: missing the case where the number
matches exactly, check patch -eq patch |
| 13:17.42 |
rossberg |
brlcad: i'm
fine :-) |
| 13:18.58 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: order |
| 13:19.19 |
rossberg |
btw, gcc
gives a warning for vector.h about the template friend |
| 13:20.13 |
rossberg |
this warning
can be switched off, but i don't know how to do this for vector.h
only |
| 13:27.42 |
brlcad |
rossberg: if
you know the warning number, you can add a pragma to disable
it |
| 13:29.45 |
brlcad |
e.g. #if
defined(_MSC_VER) && _MSC_VER >= 1100 #pragma
warning(disable: ####) #endif |
| 13:30.14 |
rossberg |
brlcad: ok,
i'll have a look at this ... next week |
| 13:30.48 |
brlcad |
should be
used sparingly of course, but if it causes problems, that should do
the trick |
| 13:32.43 |
rossberg |
the warning
is about the programmer might want a different beahvior, however i
want exactly the current behavior |
| 14:09.09 |
``Erik |
strlcpy()
might be a good idea, but migrating our usage of strcpy to it might
take a fair bit of 'grunt' effort |
| 14:09.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548767EF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:13.57 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 14:13.57 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: be
extra careful about clearing out variables when we're done with
them and |
| 14:13.57 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
utilizing even less space when encoding string chars.. we're right
up against |
| 14:13.57 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: the
ARG_MAX limit on irix and (some) bsd systems where keeping two
copies of our |
| 14:13.59 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
COPYING file in memory is turning out to be too much, but
everything is fine if |
| 14:14.01 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: we
only ever have just one copy of the file retained in memory. ahh,
such |
| 14:14.03 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
abusive fun with environment variables. |
| 14:39.33 |
brlcad |
meh, seems
like busy work and somewhat politically charged |
| 14:42.29 |
*** join/#brlcad cad23
(n=db444236@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:55.23 |
``Erik |
ok, strncpy()
*shrug* |
| 15:13.10 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:13.51 |
``Erik |
on "make
dist" |
| 15:13.51 |
``Erik |
make[4]:
Entering directory `/some/path/src/other/tcl/unix' |
| 15:13.51 |
``Erik |
make[4]: ***
No rule to make target `distdir'. Stop. |
| 15:17.05 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ir-sgi.c: include bu.h for
bu_fgets |
| 15:18.27 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/irprep/Makefile.am: reduce LDADD
libs to minimal. Add deps info. |
| 17:28.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: Added help
for reset/bv_reset (fixes bug 1219087) |
| 18:33.32 |
IriX64 |
just realized
something, sorry i won't do it again. |
| 18:38.44 |
``Erik |
I don't think
this channel is intended for getting your hand on someones nozzle.
O.o |
| 18:39.19 |
IriX64 |
heh I'm male
but thanks for the offer ;) |
| 18:39.46 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
I noticed that too -- all of the automake targets aren't in tcl's
makefile since they only use autoconf |
| 18:39.54 |
brlcad |
e.g. make
etags too |
| 18:40.37 |
brlcad |
have to
provide similar recursion halts in
src/other/tcl/Makefile.am |
| 18:41.11 |
brlcad |
maybe make it
not be a SUBDIRS, and just do a cd && make
manually |
| 18:41.27 |
brlcad |
so that the
other rules can be removed too |
| 18:41.50 |
brlcad |
strncpy
cleanup is a great idea |
| 18:42.17 |
brlcad |
i was going
to focus on that as part of the Pedro's security scan
cleanup |
| 18:42.32 |
brlcad |
still a
release or two away |
| 18:42.37 |
``Erik |
that might be
a 'jr developer' task |
| 18:43.16 |
``Erik |
dist/distcheck is kinda, uh, important...
though... |
| 18:45.15 |
brlcad |
the security
cleanup isn't necessarily, but yeah on the gruntage |
| 18:49.56 |
brlcad |
IriX64: you
ever get to testing those geometry conversions? or plan/hope to?
really would be helpful |
| 18:50.09 |
brlcad |
moreso that
compilation testing :) |
| 18:51.01 |
IriX64 |
dont have the
patience, but your team should be able to do: g-dxf followed by a
dxf-g and likle wise for all of them, you darn well better get back
what you started with. |
| 18:51.57 |
brlcad |
you're
talking to the team, we're working on other aspects of the
project |
| 18:52.11 |
IriX64 |
heh maybe ill
tackle it then. |
| 18:52.27 |
IriX64 |
start with g
files i better get back a proper g file :) |
| 18:52.55 |
``Erik |
"the team" is
kinda 2-3 people with 'todo' lists measured in au's O.o |
| 18:53.11 |
brlcad |
you won't end
up with what you started with as dxf is a different representation,
but it should resemble the original just in polygonal
form |
| 18:53.19 |
IriX64 |
heh break the
light speed barrier then :) |
| 18:53.51 |
IriX64 |
dxf-g tested
it works. |
| 18:54.07 |
IriX64 |
and not just
starting with a g file. |
| 18:54.15 |
IriX64 |
got a holt of
a real dxf |
| 18:59.31 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: tuck
openNURBS headers into a subdir instead of polluting include/
(should these be noinst?) |
| 19:05.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: malloc.h was
superceded by stdlib.h no later than c89, so try stdlib.h
first |
| 19:07.07 |
``Erik |
hm, openbsd
really doesn't like the mixing of c and c++ |
| 19:14.56 |
brlcad |
README.BSD
<< "On OpenBSD, compile with ./configure CC=g++" is a
perfectly viable punt for the short term too if there's only one or
two like that |
| 19:18.47 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/387972
< another project I play with :) |
| 19:23.48 |
IriX64 |
but for a
real treat I prefer brlcad ;) |
| 19:28.57 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-89-40.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:29.15 |
clock_ |
Funny message
on OpenBSD |
| 19:29.33 |
clock_ |
When
compiling Ronja. Cannot fork, try again. Checked processes, didn't
find any excess number of processes |
| 19:31.13 |
``Erik |
cool, I'm not
seeing that on my obsd box :) |
| 19:34.09 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: avoid the square
brackets |
| 19:48.33 |
``Erik |
stupid square
brackets *shakes fist* </homersimpson> |
| 19:49.29 |
brlcad |
yeah, took me
a bit to realize that stupidity |
| 19:49.53 |
brlcad |
don't see how
it worked on two platforms I tested.. but it did |
| 19:49.59 |
brlcad |
greedy
match |
| 19:51.39 |
``Erik |
hm, the
CC=g++ hack can't work on OpenBSD without mods tcl refuses to
compile |
| 19:52.13 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: initialize from the starting
directory |
| 19:53.36 |
brlcad |
really ..
that's odd |
| 19:53.50 |
brlcad |
what about
just linking with g++ |
| 19:54.01 |
brlcad |
./configure
LD=g++ or something iirc |
| 19:54.39 |
``Erik |
-Wno-implicit-int makes it
puke |
| 19:55.11 |
brlcad |
ahh, I take
it that is something tcl's adding |
| 19:55.37 |
``Erik |
yes, in
src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.am |
| 19:57.16 |
``Erik |
er, .in, not
.am, sorry |
| 20:05.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove debug printing |
| 20:10.05 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/ (Makefile.am
dd_protocols/Makefile.am): remove the pkgIndex.tcl (unused) and
tclIndex (shouldn't ever need to be generated) targets so non-GNU
make's work when builddir!=srcdir |
| 20:11.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548767EF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:14.39 |
``Erik |
[[['''']['''']['''']['''']][['''']['''']['''']['''']] |
| 20:14.41 |
``Erik |
nice |
| 20:35.20 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: try to cope with OS's that
don't like dots in library names |
| 20:44.08 |
clock_ |
|'''' |
| 20:44.18 |
clock_ |
|''''|''''|''''|''''|''''|'''' |
| 20:44.39 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: rename brep_hbv to more
appropriate brep_bv |
| 20:46.07 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: begin implementation of
rt_brep_prep: construct BVH, and precalculate cdbitems |
| 20:46.08 |
``Erik |
heh, I
believe what I pasted was brlcad's "extra square brackets" effect
on some of my files... :) |
| 21:00.57 |
``Erik |
a/det |
| 21:01.00 |
``Erik |
bah |
| 21:22.43 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am):
restore make dist support by removing 'unix' as a SUBDIRS; add
rules for all-am and clean-am for starters. only tested on fbsd
thusfar. |
| 21:47.17 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
fix distcheck, but does generate the dist |
| 21:47.21 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: need to recursively delete the
autom4te.cache directories else there can be a plethora of build
problems of the "Can't locate object method "path" via package
"Request" sort. |
| 21:57.02 |
Maloeran |
Ahahah, this
is so sad - http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11211.0 |
| 22:48.58 |
IriX64 |
love make -i
:) |
| 22:49.14 |
IriX64 |
finished the
build in spite of adrt. |
| 22:53.40 |
IriX64 |
too many
undefined references though for it to be your problem. |
| 22:58.34 |
IriX64 |
why is
python2.4 in makefile.in for adrt/isst/master? I have python 2.5
and theres no version number shown in config.log. |
| 00:13.05 |
IriX64 |
now instead
of e-mailing them to people, I just post them on my blog
:) |
| 00:16.01 |
brlcad |
that actually
works much better.. don't have to wade |
| 00:16.13 |
brlcad |
i like a few
of the shots |
| 00:16.41 |
brlcad |
would be cool
if you started actually building something |
| 00:18.00 |
IriX64 |
the zeus
mobile |
| 00:18.13 |
IriX64 |
gotta plan it
first |
| 00:18.36 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/Makefile.am: version is no
longer relevant/known again |
| 00:19.17 |
IriX64 |
brlcads clay
is bits and bytes |
| 00:21.53 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: |
| 00:21.54 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD: make
it look for our installed termcap file before it uses the one in
etc, since |
| 00:21.54 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
enabling termlib compilation implies functioning independent. if
they want |
| 00:21.54 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
their termcap file, they can still set TERMCAP or link against
their system |
| 00:21.54 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
terminfo/termcap/curses |
| 00:34.56 |
louipc |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:35.12 |
brlcad |
true |
| 00:35.16 |
louipc |
jove? |
| 00:35.23 |
brlcad |
yes? |
| 00:35.25 |
brlcad |
f'ing
jove |
| 00:35.34 |
brlcad |
~jove |
| 00:35.35 |
ibot |
jove is,
like, njs's preferred little editor -- like emacs, but
small. |
| 00:35.47 |
brlcad |
heh, didn't
know that |
| 00:35.58 |
Twingy |
~nano |
| 00:35.59 |
ibot |
methinks nano
is at http://www.nano-editor.org/, or
a DFSG-free alternative to pico, or 10^-9 |
| 00:36.14 |
Twingy |
~gcam |
| 00:36.16 |
ibot |
hmm... gcam
is the open source GNU Computer-Aided Machining project, developed
by Justin Shumaker, for supporting basic CNC mills by directly
exporting g-code to your favorite CNC driver application. See
http://gcam.js.cx/ for
details. |
| 00:36.16 |
brlcad |
~jove is also
"Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs" |
| 00:36.17 |
ibot |
brlcad:
okay |
| 00:36.24 |
Twingy |
hah |
| 00:37.18 |
IriX64 |
for which
horse :) (duck) |
| 00:37.30 |
Twingy |
your mom, oh
snap! |
| 00:38.11 |
IriX64 |
youd prefer
your sisyer my moms a crel ride. |
| 00:39.03 |
Maloeran |
~universe |
| 00:39.05 |
ibot |
Space
Strategy game. URL: http://rmi.net/~starkey/Universe/ |
| 00:39.29 |
Twingy |
~42 |
| 00:39.31 |
ibot |
from memory,
42 is the answer to life the universe and everything, see also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything |
| 00:39.35 |
IriX64 |
42's only
half the answer 84 is the full answer :) |
| 00:40.54 |
Maloeran |
Especially
since the universe is 404 Not found |
| 00:41.12 |
IriX64 |
an http
universe interesting equation :) |
| 00:42.15 |
Twingy |
Maloeran, how
long does it take you to raytrace the universe |
| 00:42.47 |
IriX64 |
e=mc2^c2 |
| 00:43.19 |
Maloeran |
Not too sure,
I'm still waiting for some rays to come out of a black
hole |
| 00:46.26 |
IriX64 |
you're
raytracing in reverse then :) |
| 00:47.26 |
Twingy |
Maloeran,
better put some rays on the event horizon to see what's going on
with them |
| 00:48.22 |
Maloeran |
Yes, there
must be a bug in my graph prep, they seem stuck in an infinite
loop |
| 00:49.37 |
Twingy |
just rub your
feet together on the carpet and touch your ram |
| 00:49.41 |
Twingy |
that'll get
it unstuck |
| 00:59.07 |
IriX64 |
stray photons
will too |
| 01:07.44 |
``Erik |
*pout* this
sucks |
| 01:07.49 |
``Erik |
my laptop
only has 2g ram |
| 01:07.55 |
``Erik |
I can't model
irix64's mom :( |
| 01:08.02 |
Twingy |
oh
snap! |
| 01:16.11 |
IriX64 |
you're using
the male model thats why :) |
| 01:16.22 |
IriX64 |
she doesn't
have one of those :) |
| 01:17.02 |
Twingy |
she has
two? |
| 01:17.19 |
IriX64 |
breasts yeah
just like you :) |
| 01:17.20 |
Twingy |
irix64smom.cx |
| 01:17.31 |
Twingy |
don't make
fun of my man bewbs |
| 01:17.45 |
IriX64 |
mine are a c
cup :) |
| 01:17.53 |
Twingy |
...or else
I'll you on wendy's mailing list |
| 01:18.04 |
Twingy |
(dooh dooh
doooooo organ music) |
| 01:18.08 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:18.18 |
IriX64 |
means i have
to work for a living? no thanks... :) |
| 01:18.26 |
``Erik |
omfg, wendys
mailing list, that's just fucking COLD |
| 01:19.00 |
IriX64 |
not knowing
who wendy is i have to bow out but ill let gionnii know
:) |
| 01:20.38 |
``Erik |
irix: of the
folk paid by uncle sam.. when we grouse and bitch and generally act
disgruntled... that's response to our good friend miss
wendy. |
| 01:21.24 |
IriX64 |
uncle sams
wife? |
| 01:21.27 |
Twingy |
within 24
hours of my transfer taking effect I will be removed from the
shackles of her mailing list |
| 01:21.53 |
IriX64 |
shows who
really runs the military |
| 01:21.58 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:22.20 |
``Erik |
ehhehheh |
| 01:22.31 |
``Erik |
y'know |
| 01:22.42 |
``Erik |
I was doing
some computation today |
| 01:23.03 |
brlcad |
me
too! |
| 01:23.22 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:23.59 |
IriX64 |
gotta go...
kid needs a ride. |
| 01:24.27 |
``Erik |
if I sold my
house today and moved back to missouri.... |
| 01:24.54 |
``Erik |
I would have
like a fucking mansion and a fistful of 'extra' crash |
| 01:25.14 |
``Erik |
it REALLY
makes me think about moving back to hillbilly land and starting my
own co |
| 01:25.17 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 01:25.49 |
Twingy |
have to keep
in mind if you decide later in life to want to move to a pricey
area you'll be dirt poor |
| 01:25.57 |
Twingy |
so that
limits you to like mid west |
| 01:27.04 |
Maloeran |
Or up in
Canada |
| 01:28.56 |
``Erik |
parts of
canuckia, I suppose |
| 01:29.28 |
Maloeran |
Any idea on
what the company will offer, Erik? |
| 01:29.36 |
``Erik |
'the
company'? |
| 01:29.52 |
Maloeran |
Within the
context of "starting my own co" |
| 01:29.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:30.05 |
``Erik |
nfc |
| 01:30.12 |
Maloeran |
Okay
:) |
| 01:32.10 |
``Erik |
I can lay
code like a mofo, and I can do certain administrative
fucntions... |
| 01:32.10 |
``Erik |
like
finances, uh, I can be hardcore on the financial
aspect... |
| 01:32.30 |
``Erik |
but the
business/marketing/sales shit seriosuly aint' up my alley... I need
a face person. |
| 01:32.45 |
Twingy |
ah, so you
are brining gillich with you |
| 01:33.00 |
``Erik |
heh, I d'no
about gillich |
| 01:33.15 |
Twingy |
I would be a
bad choice, I'd get bored of ``Erik's company (whatever it was) in
3 years and he'd be screwed |
| 01:33.20 |
``Erik |
with
appropiate steering, lee is capable there :/ |
| 01:33.45 |
Twingy |
seriously
though |
| 01:33.50 |
Twingy |
when they
fire wendy, you can bring her along |
| 01:33.56 |
Maloeran |
Ahah |
| 01:34.08 |
``Erik |
I, uh, kinda
ment functional? |
| 01:34.35 |
``Erik |
not th ekinda
person who would bury an endeavor in unnecessary
beaurocrocy... |
| 01:34.38 |
``Erik |
sp |
| 01:34.52 |
Twingy |
I flew the
twin again tonight |
| 01:35.01 |
``Erik |
awesome |
| 01:35.03 |
Twingy |
that little
toy is addictive |
| 01:35.14 |
``Erik |
got someone
with a radar gun to clokc you? :D |
| 01:35.17 |
Twingy |
I am ready to
start packing electronics into it now |
| 01:35.28 |
Twingy |
as long as I
can climb vertical that's all that matters :) |
| 01:35.40 |
Twingy |
will full
tanks of gas |
| 01:35.51 |
Twingy |
*with |
| 01:36.05 |
``Erik |
heh, vertical
climb is an awful lot of unf |
| 01:37.51 |
Twingy |
figure it's
got about 15 lbs of thrust |
| 01:38.16 |
Twingy |
probly 12
actually, fully loaded the plane is about 5-6 lbs |
| 01:38.58 |
Twingy |
doing an
inverted dive with full throttle just rips it up |
| 01:39.16 |
Twingy |
a trainer
would snap its wing in a heart beat |
| 01:40.33 |
Maloeran |
Considered a
solar powered plane yet? :) |
| 01:41.14 |
Twingy |
already been
done |
| 01:41.26 |
Twingy |
and those're
no fun unless autonomous |
| 01:41.40 |
Twingy |
and I do that
at work everyday |
| 01:41.40 |
Maloeran |
Not by
amateurs flying indefinitely |
| 01:41.47 |
Twingy |
so no real
fun |
| 01:41.59 |
``Erik |
indefinitly
sustainable solar autonmous aircraft would be...
interesting |
| 01:42.24 |
Twingy |
it'd have to
be huge to weather the cross winds |
| 01:42.42 |
Maloeran |
Then send it
over the pacific to get you some pictures of Australia |
| 01:43.09 |
``Erik |
like that
massive nasa cruiser that flexed like a mofo in the
wind |
| 01:43.22 |
Twingy |
if solar
efficiency doubles you could charge up lipo's during the day while
flying above clouds |
| 01:43.26 |
``Erik |
the one that
was like a 30' wingspan of solar panels |
| 01:44.18 |
Twingy |
heh |
| 01:44.26 |
Twingy |
I have an
1100maH nicad in the twin |
| 01:44.32 |
Twingy |
my hour and a
half of flying tonight used up 200ma |
| 01:44.55 |
Twingy |
easily fly
that all day on one charge' |
| 01:45.08 |
Twingy |
I need an
1100 for my xmitter |
| 01:45.23 |
Twingy |
the hitech
sucks through that 600ma in just over 90 minutes |
| 01:45.38 |
Twingy |
though my
triton can charge it up in about 60 |
| 01:46.55 |
Twingy |
I doubt that
xmitter is 2W though |
| 01:47.00 |
Twingy |
they are
usualy 500mW |
| 01:48.48 |
Twingy |
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNKD7&P=0 |
| 02:23.56 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: gah, I thought I already
committed this. traverse into enigma dir, don't just shove
everything into the dist, else make distcheck thinks that it's
already been configured and aborts. |
| 02:38.27 |
IriX64 |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:15.55 |
IriX64 |
ill try 7.8.4
tommorrow again. |
| 03:16.07 |
IriX64 |
quite happy
with 7.6.2 tho. |
| 03:19.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h: tcl's regex.h
header assumes that there is magic being provided by tclInt.h
before it's included (for VOID and CONST among other examples) ..
so just freaking include it and avoid a make dist
error. |
| 03:37.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: vector headers are
missing, bad distcheck, no donut for you |
| 03:41.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am svfb.h svfb_global.h):
remove the obsolete svfb.h and svfb_global.h headers. they are part
of urtoolkit and were replaced by rle_put.h and rle.h
respectively. |
| 03:41.39 |
*** join/#brlcad deltazap
(n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 03:41.40 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669545.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 03:45.10 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am XtndRunsv.h): remove
XtndRunsv.h as well, obsoleted in urt by rle_code.h |
| 03:53.31 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work
(n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 03:59.57 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
workin' late? :) |
| 05:13.14 |
*** join/#brlcad cad41
(n=46382e0a@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:13.25 |
cad41 |
hello all
:) |
| 05:14.14 |
cad41 |
i am in
search of help on my mac with brlcad |
| 05:14.23 |
cad41 |
i cant seem
to start it |
| 05:15.49 |
cad41 |
anyone alive
in here? |
| 05:16.37 |
Maloeran |
You have
tried running mged? Do you get any error message? I'm no expert on
Mac, but it's built on Unix so... |
| 05:16.37 |
cad41 |
i did,and it
did not do anything |
| 05:16.48 |
Maloeran |
If you start
it from a terminal, does it print anything? |
| 05:16.57 |
cad41 |
i am no
expert,but can do some basic linux/unix stuff |
| 05:17.09 |
cad41 |
i cant get it
to start at all |
| 05:17.49 |
cad41 |
mike-campbells-computer:~ scottcampbell$
MGED |
| 05:18.03 |
brlcad |
cad41: type
"/usr/brlcad/bin/mged" |
| 05:18.03 |
cad41 |
then i get
nothing |
| 05:18.07 |
brlcad |
without the
quotes |
| 05:18.24 |
brlcad |
with X11
running |
| 05:19.34 |
cad41 |
thank
you |
| 05:19.36 |
cad41 |
:) |
| 05:19.55 |
cad41 |
ooops |
| 05:20.34 |
cad41 |
didnt
work |
| 05:20.55 |
brlcad |
you're
running X11? |
| 05:21.00 |
cad41 |
yes |
| 05:21.03 |
cad41 |
made sure of
that |
| 05:21.15 |
Maloeran |
Try to give
more information on what isn't working, it's a bit
vague |
| 05:21.25 |
Maloeran |
Does it print
anything in your terminal? |
| 05:21.36 |
brlcad |
you typed
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged into the xterm window that popped
open? |
| 05:21.46 |
cad41 |
it sayd no
display name and no $display envoronment variable |
| 05:22.11 |
brlcad |
ah, type it
into the xterm window instead of Terminal |
| 05:22.30 |
brlcad |
or run this
in Terminal: export DISPLAY=:0 |
| 05:22.34 |
cad41 |
Initializing
and backgrounding, please wait...no display name and no $DISPLAY
environment variable |
| 05:23.08 |
brlcad |
type the
export line, then retry |
| 05:24.13 |
cad41 |
Initializing
and backgrounding, please wait...couldn't connect to display
":0" |
| 05:27.33 |
Maloeran |
As an unix
but non-mac guy, I would say X doesn't seem to be
running |
| 05:29.10 |
cad41 |
ok.i shall
double check.thank you for the help |
| 05:32.26 |
brlcad |
if X11 is
running (it's in your /Applications/Utilities folder), there will
be a small white window open up in the top left corner entitled
"xterm" |
| 05:34.36 |
cad41 |
Initializing
and backgrounding, please wait...X Error of failed request:
BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) |
| 05:34.48 |
cad41 |
X is
on |
| 05:35.15 |
brlcad |
ahh, Intel
Mac |
| 05:35.15 |
cad41 |
<PROTECTED> |
| 05:35.23 |
cad41 |
hahhaha |
| 05:35.23 |
brlcad |
there's a bug
in apple's X11 |
| 05:35.59 |
brlcad |
cad41:
there's a release going up this weekend that will have a fix for
that, 7.10 |
| 05:36.14 |
cad41 |
from
X? |
| 05:36.24 |
cad41 |
or
apple? |
| 05:36.30 |
brlcad |
of
BRL-CAD |
| 05:36.35 |
cad41 |
oh
LOL |
| 05:36.36 |
cad41 |
i
see |
| 05:36.40 |
brlcad |
we can work
around the problem |
| 05:37.22 |
cad41 |
ahh to be a
curious student......at age 40! |
| 05:37.27 |
brlcad |
X11 fails to
talk to Rosetta correctly, so you get that opcode error |
| 05:37.55 |
brlcad |
a quick
recompile for Intel fixes it up, or a universal binary |
| 05:38.15 |
brlcad |
the other
command-line apps still work, but not the gui to mged |
| 05:56.20 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@66.111.56.50) |
| 06:45.38 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-45.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:27.24 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:27.59 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:20.45 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:34.41 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 12:53.47 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:17.55 |
Maloeran |
*nods* Sure,
that was just to say that I could perhaps help with the Unix part,
not anything specific to OSX |
| 13:21.48 |
tofu |
``Erik: so
looks like it's a no go, off the hook |
| 13:22.25 |
``Erik |
um, what, the
gsoc? |
| 13:26.26 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 13:26.53 |
``Erik |
ah well
*shrug* so we don't get to spend someone elses money for grunt-work
development |
| 13:27.06 |
brlcad |
pretty
much |
| 13:27.49 |
``Erik |
I think the
notion of a 'junior hacker' list is good to have around anyways, so
I don't believe generating the document was wasteful
*shrug* |
| 13:28.46 |
``Erik |
even if no
one else picks up on it, I might chew on something during one of my
'brain dead' days, which seem awfully common these last couple of
years :/ |
| 13:29.39 |
brlcad |
actually, I
thought that the list of rfp was a great page to put together
regardless |
| 13:32.24 |
``Erik |
http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/
others have done it before :D |
| 13:32.24 |
``Erik |
the bsd one
actually grew out of phk's "jr kernel hacker todo" list |
| 14:09.17 |
brlcad |
yep, nothing
new, I meant more just clearing out thoughts on actual attainable
projects that would make a big impact |
| 14:10.50 |
brlcad |
the rfp page
is actually fairly well ordered towards what is most important at
the moment too |
| 14:18.04 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 15:40.14 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: handle failed region in nmg
conversion |
| 15:48.12 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/configure.ac: cvs BRL-CAD changed
libtcl.so to libtcl8.5.so (on fbsd/linux... libtcl85.so on obsd and
others) |
| 15:49.28 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: we cope with normals now, so
don't have them marked as unused |
| 15:59.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54874E47.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:59.36 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54874E47.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:03.07 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: reorder |
| 16:29.50 |
Maloeran |
From BBC's
history, the world's oldest person died at 114 on 29 Jan 07. On 15
March 2007, the world's oldest person turns 116. Find the
error |
| 16:31.21 |
clock_ |
Died and then
raised from the grave, a bit older (from decomposition) |
| 16:31.34 |
clock_ |
happens all
the time, see Romeros movies |
| 16:33.32 |
archivist |
jurnalists
are notorious for errors |
| 16:34.04 |
archivist |
if you want
some fun email them about it see if you get it updated |
| 16:34.06 |
clock_ |
maybe the
world's oldest person is the journalist |
| 16:34.25 |
clock_ |
and the brain
doesn't serve as good as when he was young ;-) |
| 16:49.45 |
``Erik |
clock: bug
1657171 (rtedge renders bullshit), the png file seems to be
truncated? 24709 bytes, MD5 (bullshit.png) =
3ce18b1b378dd81e25c20d1a44f3f3c9 |
| 16:49.59 |
``Erik |
(unless my
browser is being retarded, which may very well be) |
| 16:50.43 |
clock_ |
``Erik:
URL? |
| 16:50.59 |
``Erik |
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1657171&group_id=105292&atid=640802 |
| 16:54.38 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (Makefile.am rtcmp.c dry/dry.c
dry/dry.h): Add a 'dry run' engine to measure overhead and "warm
up" the partition manager. Should abate worries about function call
overhead. |
| 16:55.56 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: silence overlap
reporting |
| 16:57.32 |
clock_ |
``Erik: It's
even broken on my disk. I don't know why |
| 16:58.35 |
clock_ |
``Erik: But
look at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:58.37 |
clock_ |
seach for
chimney |
| 16:58.51 |
``Erik |
always
pimpin' your site ;) |
| 16:59.18 |
clock_ |
And then look
at the lower left picture of the five |
| 16:59.36 |
clock_ |
The rtedge
picture is just downscaled with image magick, and when you click
you see the rt picture |
| 17:00.00 |
``Erik |
the original
rtedge image isn't available? |
| 17:00.04 |
clock_ |
``Erik: you
can see the notches on the downscaled one too |
| 17:00.12 |
clock_ |
I would have
to generate it manually |
| 17:00.36 |
``Erik |
ok, I'll just
follow your instructions in the pr and see if it looks mucked up to
me :) |
| 17:02.47 |
clock_ |
yeah try how
long does it take? |
| 17:02.52 |
clock_ |
I'm curious
:) |
| 17:03.01 |
``Erik |
huh? to
render on my machine? or? |
| 17:03.14 |
clock_ |
yes to set up
the given version and download and render |
| 17:03.42 |
clock_ |
This is why
it's good to have technology completely open |
| 17:03.58 |
``Erik |
well, it's
tracing now |
| 17:04.14 |
clock_ |
Can you
imagine "Hi we are Samsung we are using BRL-CAD to model mobile
phone shell but no sorry we can't give you the .g file it's
strictly confidential" |
| 17:04.19 |
``Erik |
1.4
seconds |
| 17:05.07 |
clock_ |
proprietary
== Debugging Mission Impossible |
| 17:08.38 |
clock_ |
``Erik: are
you getting those notches too? |
| 17:09.29 |
``Erik |
no |
| 17:09.38 |
clock_ |
``Erik: send
me your picture |
| 17:09.42 |
clock_ |
what's your
BRL-CAD version? |
| 17:10.07 |
clock_ |
7.8.4? |
| 17:10.17 |
clock_ |
``Erik: clock
at twibright dot com |
| 17:10.17 |
``Erik |
7.9.0 |
| 17:10.27 |
clock_ |
``Erik: can
you try with 7.8.4? |
| 17:10.40 |
``Erik |
lemme find a
box runnign it, heh |
| 17:10.44 |
clock_ |
To see if
it's a bug that was fixed or a bug which doesn't reproduce in your
situation? |
| 17:11.11 |
clock_ |
Can I already
download 7.9.0? |
| 17:11.18 |
clock_ |
The notches
look ugly on the website :) |
| 17:12.24 |
``Erik |
7.9.0 is the
working name for cvs HEAD |
| 17:12.31 |
``Erik |
7.10.0 should
be out 'very soon now' |
| 17:12.59 |
``Erik |
7.8.0 didn't
show the notches |
| 17:13.00 |
clock_ |
they should
put the money spent on SDI into BRL-CAD ;-) |
| 17:13.09 |
clock_ |
yes I
remember they weren't there before |
| 17:13.15 |
clock_ |
but I wasn't
sure |
| 17:13.38 |
clock_ |
BRL-CAD -
where the U.S. Army rulez ;-) |
| 17:14.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran
(n=maloeran@glvortex.net) |
| 17:14.39 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056670.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:15.02 |
``Erik |
hrmmmm |
| 17:22.46 |
IriX64 |
masochist
:) |
| 17:23.15 |
clock_ |
``Erik: My
machine is LSB first |
| 17:23.48 |
``Erik |
the machines
I was testing on are mostly wrong endian... opterons |
| 17:24.05 |
clock_ |
opterons are
big endians? |
| 17:24.13 |
``Erik |
no, small
endian |
| 17:25.38 |
clock_ |
If you have a
big endian machine and 32 bit number x stored in memory addresses
0,1,2,3, how much is (unsigned long)(void *)&x? |
| 17:26.22 |
clock_ |
Is it 0, 3,
or 4? |
| 17:27.04 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 17:27.23 |
``Erik |
big endian
will store 0x11223344 as { 0x11, 0x22, 0x33, 0x44 } |
| 17:27.37 |
clock_ |
that's not
exactly an answer to my question |
| 17:28.28 |
clock_ |
``Erik: do
you understand C? |
| 17:29.18 |
``Erik |
yes, sorry,
distracted at the moment |
| 17:29.29 |
clock_ |
``Erik: then
you should understand my question |
| 17:33.38 |
Maloeran |
clock_,
0x01020304 on big endian |
| 17:33.38 |
clock_ |
Maloeran: no
I didn't say stored as values 0,1,2,3, but in memory addresses
0,1,2,3 |
| 17:33.38 |
clock_ |
memory
address 0 is when all address bus wires are low. Memory address 1
is one byte higher etc. |
| 17:33.38 |
Maloeran |
I sure know C
and the "in memory addresses 0,1,2,3" is not clear at
all |
| 17:33.38 |
IriX64 |
clock_ try
sizeof(unsigned long) and sizeof(void*) |
| 17:34.07 |
Maloeran |
clock_,
there's no conversion or byte swapping between considering an
integer as pointer or integer |
| 17:34.19 |
Maloeran |
For the
processor, a pointer is always just an integer anyway |
| 17:34.39 |
Maloeran |
Well "always"
on the majority of platforms, before Erik or brlcad gets pedantic
on me :) |
| 17:34.46 |
clock_ |
In other
words, do pointer pointing at multi-byte objects in bug endian
machines point at the beginning of the object, at the last byte of
the objectt, or one byte beyond the end of the object? |
| 17:35.09 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 17:35.54 |
Maloeran |
References
hold the address to the beginning of the chunk of memory, the first
byte of your variable |
| 17:36.12 |
clock_ |
Then on big
endian machine if you do this |
| 17:36.13 |
clock_ |
long
x |
| 17:36.20 |
clock_ |
x=37 |
| 17:36.38 |
clock_ |
printf("%d",*(unsigned char *)(void
*)&x); |
| 17:36.41 |
clock_ |
it prints
0? |
| 17:37.57 |
Maloeran |
It will print
0, yes |
| 17:38.35 |
Maloeran |
((unsigned
char *)&x)[3] will give you 37 if sizeof(long)==4 of
course |
| 17:38.50 |
clock_ |
On big endian
machines if you want to cast a long object into shorter one
(meaningfully), you have to perform a constant addition |
| 17:39.08 |
clock_ |
On little
endian, you don't have to |
| 17:39.09 |
Maloeran |
Hum, I'm not
following this statement |
| 17:39.22 |
clock_ |
therefore
little endian machines are faster and therefore better. |
| 17:39.32 |
Maloeran |
Oh, you mean
casting a 64 bits int to 32 bits or so |
| 17:40.01 |
clock_ |
Maloeran:
yes, on big endian machine you have to insert one ADD instruction
for the [3], so all programs that do such kind of operation run
slower |
| 17:40.21 |
Maloeran |
Not exactly.
First, all/most memory references instructions contain an
"offset" |
| 17:40.46 |
Maloeran |
Second,
accessing memory in this manner after a write will trash your cache
and stall, you better use instructions for conversion |
| 17:41.20 |
clock_ |
depends on
how the cache and pipeline is implemented |
| 17:41.26 |
Maloeran |
In some cases
though, this could be an advantage, yes |
| 17:41.27 |
clock_ |
if it's
implemented with this case in mind, it won't stall |
| 17:41.45 |
clock_ |
It won't
trash and stall also in case there is no cache/pipeline, like for
example the Z80 processor |
| 17:41.52 |
clock_ |
(which is a
little endian machine) |
| 17:42.01 |
Maloeran |
Eheh okay. I
usually have amd64 in mind |
| 17:42.13 |
clock_ |
Z80 is turing
equivalent to AMD64 |
| 17:42.25 |
clock_ |
;-) |
| 17:42.37 |
clock_ |
I wanted to
point out the asymmetry between big and little endian
machines |
| 17:42.51 |
IriX64 |
turing? nice
language :) |
| 17:43.00 |
Maloeran |
Big endian
also has its advantages in certain cases |
| 17:43.01 |
clock_ |
Some people
say they are symmetric and therefore there is no inherent advantage
and therefore all holy wars are pointless |
| 17:43.38 |
clock_ |
I just showed
that there is an advantage, the big endian is theoretically more
kinky and the little one smoother |
| 17:43.38 |
clock_ |
Maloeran:
it's name being 2 bytes shorter? |
| 17:43.38 |
Maloeran |
With a proper
instruction set, they really are equivalent |
| 17:43.39 |
clock_ |
3
bytes |
| 17:44.00 |
Maloeran |
clock_, you
could for example search a sequence of bytes while crossing int64_t
boundaries |
| 17:44.01 |
clock_ |
To make them
equivalent, one would have to define pointer to point
beyond |
| 17:44.14 |
Maloeran |
That will
stall as well but will end up faster |
| 17:44.19 |
clock_ |
Maloeran:
what does it mean? |
| 17:44.59 |
Maloeran |
If you are
looking for a specific sequence of 8 chars, you can just read a
single int64_t by incrementing one byte at a time, single
comparison to see if your 8 chars are there |
| 17:45.01 |
clock_ |
Maloeran: On
little endian I can also seach a sequence of bytes while corssing
int64_t boundaries (or any other boundaries) - in a string it
really doesn't matter how it's aligned. |
| 17:45.04 |
Maloeran |
You can't do
that with little endian |
| 17:45.29 |
clock_ |
Maloeran: you
mean read each byte in memory 4 times? |
| 17:46.04 |
clock_ |
sorry 8 times
for all overlapping possibly unaligned int64_t's that contain that
memory byte? |
| 17:46.23 |
Maloeran |
Yes, the
memory accesses would be very much non-aligned |
| 17:47.31 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: i
don't know *why, but the check for opengl functionality from 7.6.2
inserted into 7.8.4's configure.ac works, the one supplied does
*not work and i can't figure it out. |
| 17:47.34 |
Maloeran |
Anyway, these
are really details. I have far bigger complains about architectures
and ISAs than the endianess :) |
| 17:49.09 |
clock_ |
Maloeran:
which? |
| 17:49.58 |
Maloeran |
The complete
bloat of a 16 bits real mode ISA designed in 1975, extended to 32
bits, to protected mode, to 64 bits, to long mode |
| 17:50.24 |
Maloeran |
The SSE mess
in comparison to Altivec or Itanium |
| 17:51.15 |
``Erik |
(back,
btw) |
| 17:52.06 |
``Erik |
(and people
who blindly cast/copy to smaller data sizes shouldn't be allowed to
touch computers *cough*) |
| 17:52.40 |
Maloeran |
Darn. Don't
look at my optimized SSE code :) |
| 17:53.01 |
clock_ |
Is there any
version older than 7.8.4 publicly available? |
| 17:53.13 |
``Erik |
um, all of
them? |
| 17:53.28 |
IriX64 |
think older
releases are on sf clock_ |
| 17:53.38 |
clock_ |
I could find
only 7.8.4 |
| 17:53.51 |
``Erik |
7.8.4 64b on
opteron does not exhibit the rtedge issue... |
| 17:53.51 |
clock_ |
oh sorry I
meand newer |
| 17:53.58 |
IriX64 |
look for
older releases of this project on the download page |
| 17:54.09 |
``Erik |
(of course,
I'm using /dev/Xl instead of outputting to a file...
heh) |
| 17:54.24 |
clock_ |
``Erik: I
have OpenBSD Pentium III |
| 17:54.29 |
``Erik |
7.8.4 is the
most recent official release. |
| 17:54.40 |
clock_ |
``Erik:
output into a file, please |
| 17:55.30 |
clock_ |
``Erik: did I
write into the report that the same problem occurs on
Linux> |
| 17:55.31 |
clock_ |
? |
| 17:56.40 |
``Erik |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/chimney.png |
| 17:56.59 |
``Erik |
no, you
didn't mention any os/arch at all |
| 17:57.25 |
IriX64 |
wtf how do
you get inside it? |
| 17:57.29 |
clock_ |
``Erik:
http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/chimney.png
contains the bug |
| 17:57.33 |
``Erik |
hmmmmmm,
there is some warble at the top, yes |
| 17:57.45 |
IriX64 |
sorry
man.. |
| 17:58.03 |
clock_ |
``Erik: the
1st, 2nd and 4rd edge from the top |
| 17:58.10 |
``Erik |
iiiinteresting |
| 17:58.11 |
brlcad |
that image
has at least two bugs |
| 17:58.26 |
archivist |
impossible
bolt head on the left of pic |
| 17:59.46 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
rtedge in 7.8.4 produces crap |
| 17:59.53 |
brlcad |
the "hiccups"
on the long rod and the lower ouside horizontal edge of the far
beam |
| 17:59.56 |
clock_ |
``Erik: show
the image from the 7.9.0 |
| 18:01.07 |
brlcad |
the bolt
heads are also flawed, but that's the depth tolerance
issue |
| 18:01.08 |
``Erik |
oh, now this
is VERY interesting |
| 18:01.52 |
brlcad |
that almost
looks like corrupted framebuffer on some of those edges |
| 18:02.27 |
clock_ |
Whistler
orders U.S. Army to design their slopes and U. S. Army uses BRL-CAD
to design the slopes. U. S. Army asks "and how do you want to do
it?" Whistler says "we want just straight plain downhill slopes".
After they prepare the slopes, Whistler gets a flood of thankful
letters from snowboarders "Dear Whistler, thanks for the great
snowpark!" |
| 18:02.30 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:03.13 |
``Erik |
check this
out, if I write to a file and use the display framebuffer at the
same time... (-F/dev/Xl), then I pix-fb the .pix file |
| 18:03.16 |
``Erik |
they're quite
different |
| 18:03.28 |
``Erik |
the display
framebuffer is correct, the saved one is not |
| 18:03.29 |
brlcad |
``Erik: if
you're debugging that, the -Q option is gold |
| 18:03.43 |
``Erik |
to rt? or
pix-fb? or? |
| 18:03.49 |
brlcad |
rt* |
| 18:04.24 |
``Erik |
undocumented,
swank :D 'query one pixel' |
| 18:04.28 |
clock_ |
looks like
the cards get a bit shuffled on the way |
| 18:04.54 |
brlcad |
e.g. render
to framebuffer using -F/dev/Xl, then right click on the bad pixel
to get a coordinate .. then rerender with exact same params adding
-Q x,y .. will turn on debugging and only shoot that single
ray |
| 18:04.58 |
clock_ |
cause it's
not pixels zeroed out or set, but they are moved around and the
number of black and white ones stays in the right
proportion |
| 18:05.10 |
``Erik |
heh, it's all
good, clock, we still have card sorters around here O.o just keep
all appendages inside while moving |
| 18:05.11 |
brlcad |
it's
documented in rt's manpage |
| 18:05.15 |
clock_ |
and the
corruption is local |
| 18:06.10 |
clock_ |
aren't two
processes writing into one framebuffer at once and not getting the
things quite right? |
| 18:06.13 |
brlcad |
ahh.. so -o
with -F *is* corrupting.. that's a new bug |
| 18:06.27 |
``Erik |
well, -o is
corrupt either way |
| 18:06.30 |
``Erik |
-F is
not |
| 18:06.35 |
brlcad |
even by
itself? |
| 18:06.38 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 18:06.54 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 18:07.29 |
clock_ |
Does 7.9.0 do
the bug too? |
| 18:07.30 |
brlcad |
looks like
random off-by-1 fseek errors |
| 18:07.40 |
``Erik |
yes, head
still does it |
| 18:07.48 |
clock_ |
brlcad: but
it's vertically off by 1 |
| 18:08.06 |
``Erik |
it's army
code, clock, it seeks up and down, not left and right
:D |
| 18:08.12 |
clock_ |
lol
:) |
| 18:08.32 |
clock_ |
push ups up
and down? |
| 18:08.37 |
``Erik |
in soviet
america, buffer fseeks you |
| 18:08.56 |
clock_ |
soviet
america == Santa Monica? |
| 18:09.01 |
clock_ |
Soviet
Monica? |
| 18:09.06 |
brlcad |
ideally,
there should be no fseek's with -o .. that's broken
inherintly |
| 18:09.30 |
brlcad |
makes things
like -o /dev/stdout | pix-png unhappy |
| 18:09.41 |
clock_ |
Maybe the
tape reels are lose? |
| 18:10.34 |
clock_ |
I'm leaving
for a gym |
| 18:11.00 |
IriX64 |
hi i'm gym
:) |
| 18:11.02 |
clock_ |
have fun with
broken pictures |
| 18:11.10 |
clock_ |
cu
later |
| 18:19.41 |
``Erik |
ok,
uh |
| 18:21.33 |
``Erik |
that ... heh,
yeah, more proof that the hell project will never be scalable. what
was that boy smokin' when he write this? |
| 18:51.42 |
``Erik |
man, I got a
fix, but I so don't want to commit it |
| 18:51.43 |
brlcad |
what was
it? |
| 18:52.27 |
``Erik |
when it
writes to the FB, it uses the ap_y value to point to the right
place, but the output file write doesn't check to see if things are
coming in order, it locks and writes |
| 18:52.39 |
``Erik |
so when
scanlines came out of order, the file got out of order |
| 18:52.51 |
brlcad |
aha |
| 18:53.26 |
``Erik |
a "po' boy"
spinlock solves the output... but it's ugly and will starve
some |
| 18:53.29 |
brlcad |
it should
probably "wait" for the next line so it doesn't seek |
| 18:54.05 |
brlcad |
or just wait
until everything is done |
| 18:55.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: "po' boy" spinlock to
avoid scanlines being written out of order (race condition). Fixes
PR 1657171. |
| 18:55.41 |
``Erik |
I was going
to wait and write in frame_end(), but that'd require an extra
buffer to hold the results (if there's no FB) |
| 18:56.06 |
brlcad |
hmm.. good
point |
| 18:56.23 |
brlcad |
that would be
bad for rendering massive images, though I don't think we can do
that still for other reasons |
| 18:56.43 |
IriX64 |
``Erik why
not just a sem (block the write) to say go ahead and
write. |
| 18:57.37 |
IriX64 |
errr its not
threaded forget it :) |
| 18:57.44 |
``Erik |
um, it does
block the write |
| 18:57.58 |
IriX64 |
sorry man ill
shut up. |
| 18:58.04 |
``Erik |
but scanline
2 would be done and get written, then scanline 1 would
finish... |
| 18:58.05 |
brlcad |
it can work
by just seeking to the right place.. but would be nice to kill both
bugs at once since they're related |
| 18:58.13 |
``Erik |
there is no
fseek in rtedge |
| 18:58.24 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 18:58.28 |
brlcad |
there should
be |
| 18:58.35 |
brlcad |
it the app
back-end |
| 18:58.41 |
``Erik |
there is in
view.c, but not viewedge.c |
| 18:58.53 |
``Erik |
both use
fairly different methods to write the output :/ |
| 18:59.44 |
brlcad |
gah |
| 18:59.46 |
brlcad |
so they
are |
| 18:59.59 |
brlcad |
bad juju, no
twinkie for you |
| 19:00.33 |
brlcad |
and no way
that'd be refactored in time for release |
| 19:00.42 |
brlcad |
at least and
be tested |
| 19:01.15 |
brlcad |
just one
issue left with btclsh, btw, looking at that now |
| 19:01.33 |
brlcad |
otherwise we
build and run clean across the board it seems |
| 19:02.10 |
brlcad |
btclsh halts
distcheck, so once that's taken care of, we should be green to go
live |
| 19:05.14 |
``Erik |
bad juju?
huh? you disapprove of my q&d hack? :D |
| 19:06.27 |
brlcad |
no no, i
meant "ffs ffs, more code to refactor" |
| 19:06.30 |
brlcad |
not your
stuff |
| 19:06.41 |
brlcad |
all the
raytracers should be using a library backend |
| 19:06.43 |
``Erik |
heh, I'm not
terribly keen on my hack :/ |
| 19:07.01 |
``Erik |
but *shrug*
yes, they should use common code to write to fb and
file |
| 19:09.19 |
brlcad |
heh, if *you*
don't like it.. how you think i'll feel? :) |
| 19:09.50 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: note refactor for raytracer
output |
| 19:09.53 |
brlcad |
but hey, one
is outright flawed and problematic .. if it fixes something without
causing another problem, maybe put it with a note, or keep at it
;) |
| 19:10.10 |
``Erik |
heh, I d'no,
some practices get me more spun up than you... this might be one of
them. *shrug* look at the diff, if you have a better approach,
knock yourself out :D |
| 19:10.46 |
brlcad |
always
depends though, whatever ;) |
| 19:11.34 |
``Erik |
the
pathalogical case is what makes me queasy about it... |
| 19:12.53 |
``Erik |
if you run n
threads and every nth scanline takes longer than the next n-1,
it'll tank down to single threaded performance... |
| 19:13.12 |
``Erik |
or, um, 2
threaded performance |
| 19:13.16 |
``Erik |
*ponder* |
| 19:13.28 |
``Erik |
somewhere
between 1 and 2... on a 1024 core machine, that's not so
good |
| 19:13.48 |
``Erik |
hrm |
| 19:14.24 |
``Erik |
are multiple
frame renderings broken up so the frames are serial? or can it
start on the next frame before it's done with one? |
| 19:14.59 |
brlcad |
run it
through the benchmark and see if you get a difference |
| 19:15.30 |
brlcad |
you can feed
benchmark different tracers, just will get WRONG WRONG .. results,
but should still give metrics |
| 19:15.43 |
``Erik |
heh, I didn't
see any difference with chimney, very few came in out of order
:) |
| 19:15.50 |
brlcad |
RT=rtedge
benchmark |
| 19:16.11 |
brlcad |
could try
that with -P1 and -P10 on something like orthus |
| 19:16.29 |
brlcad |
display the
buffer over X.. massive out of orders |
| 19:16.48 |
brlcad |
u*
too |
| 19:30.09 |
IriX64 |
same for the
tube start at 768x1024 and go up one line at a time. |
| 19:38.00 |
Maloeran |
The
raytracer's distributed processing seems to scale reasonably well
here, I saturate my home 100mbits network too fast
though |
| 19:38.50 |
Maloeran |
Although the
graph prep isn't scalling at all just because of some global mutex
for memory alloc() & free() |
| 19:40.00 |
``Erik |
I told you
about my cache issues a while back, right? |
| 19:40.33 |
Maloeran |
Hum, I don't
think you did |
| 19:42.05 |
``Erik |
hrm, I could
move cache files between machines of the same endian without issue,
but to one of a different endian seemed to spin or hang or
something... let a fast opteron chew on a big endian cache file
overnight... |
| 19:43.24 |
Maloeran |
Oh. Thanks,
it's supposed to work, there's a glitch somewhere then |
| 19:45.25 |
Maloeran |
Can you send
me a big endian cache file? |
| 19:48.22 |
``Erik |
lemme pull a
CYA move first, heh |
| 19:49.55 |
Maloeran |
What's a
CYA? |
| 19:49.55 |
Maloeran |
Oh, got it,
second definition of urban dictionary |
| 19:51.26 |
``Erik |
hm, lee's not
in the office, since he's both the 'official' contract POC and
security bitch, I want him to ok sending you a generated file...
so'z if someone raises a stink I can point at him instead of
getting in trouble :D |
| 19:52.31 |
Maloeran |
Bah. No big
deal, send one from home built from any prehistoric big endian
machine |
| 19:53.16 |
``Erik |
heh, and see
if it compiles and runs on my ancient g3 laptop? 700 mhz of ppc
fury running osX.2 ? :D |
| 19:53.27 |
Maloeran |
Sounds like a
plan :) |
| 19:53.41 |
``Erik |
are things
almost ready to move into the BRL-CAD cvs tree? |
| 19:54.07 |
Maloeran |
The
"integration within BRL-CAD" part is very vague, but... |
| 19:54.20 |
Maloeran |
I'm thinking
I would rather keep a separate CVS |
| 19:54.50 |
Maloeran |
And just push
the updates there on a regular basis |
| 19:57.39 |
Maloeran |
It seems
SURVICE would still like to make the code closed-source with
unlimited use rights within the DoD. From what I heard, Lee was
fine with the idea for a moment... and the situation changed
somehow |
| 19:58.24 |
Maloeran |
It would
allow Survice to fund, since the ARL won't pursue, so it might have
been better for everyone. I really need a break from raytracing
though |
| 19:59.21 |
``Erik |
hrm *shrug*
I'm just trying to make sure everything is buttoned up and
delivered in the next couple weeks :) |
| 20:02.57 |
``Erik |
brlcad: on a
fbsd 4core opteron, it went from 15874 vgr's to 15750, so a 0.8%
hit for correct #'s... there might be that much wiggle in just
benchmarking alone *shrug* |
| 20:03.44 |
``Erik |
rt.run:*vgr
somemachine.arl.army.mil 25723.68 17316.87 15971.53
14880.22 21288.39 61.55 15873.70 |
| 20:03.44 |
``Erik |
rtnew.run:*vgr somemachine.arl.army.mil
25149.83 17474.88 16003.12 14591.12
21216.13 64.19 15749.87 |
| 20:05.06 |
``Erik |
hrm, no,
wait... heh, I had naughtiness to expose the bug better still
plugged in... running again... |
| 20:05.56 |
``Erik |
(400 threads
instead of 4) |
| 20:13.47 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h):
add support for folding a vector into a single value. make the
default constructor assume aligned data. |
| 20:15.47 |
``Erik |
new VGR is
15563, so 2% hit for 'correctness' |
| 20:16.06 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: implement the bounding volumes
in C++, and move the definition to g_nurb.cpp |
| 20:19.51 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: implement the bounding
volumes in C++, leaf nodes point to faces in brep model. add
support for implementation of goldsmith and salmon's bvh heuristic
(not completed). |
| 21:03.44 |
*** join/#brlcad cad74
(n=50aba2f5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:13.40 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: add "line of sight"
depth |
| 21:15.11 |
CIA-7 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: Segment building (punty).
Fixed "null region" error. |
| 21:24.56 |
``Erik |
it commits
the code or it gets the hose again |
| 21:36.53 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168048430.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:55.49 |
Twingy |
fig
newtons |
| 21:56.16 |
Twingy |
they obey the
first law of physics, now to test the 2nd |
| 22:20.14 |
*** join/#brlcad cad67
(n=45ff7061@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:20.56 |
cad67 |
test,
ignore. |
| 22:26.04 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php
<=== anybody know whats wrong with this? |
| 22:27.14 |
louipc |
:D |
| 22:27.22 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:28.03 |
``Erik |
um, yeah, I
know what's wrong with that |
| 22:28.08 |
``Erik |
you pasted
the 'submit' page, not the result page |
| 22:28.14 |
``Erik |
that's what's
wrong :D |
| 22:28.25 |
IriX64 |
ermf |
| 22:29.04 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/396664 |
| 22:29.07 |
IriX64 |
try
that. |
| 22:33.06 |
``Erik |
usually, C
macros don't have semicolons |
| 22:33.21 |
``Erik |
but that
looks legal to me *shrug* |
| 22:33.26 |
IriX64 |
trying to
redefine that to a ; |
| 22:33.52 |
IriX64 |
haven't
really exercised it. |
| 22:33.59 |
``Erik |
then why are
you asking what's wrong with it? heh |
| 22:34.17 |
IriX64 |
im patient
enough to wait till this compile is done :) |
| 22:34.28 |
IriX64 |
just doesn't
"look" right. |
| 22:35.30 |
``Erik |
including
semicolons looks odd |
| 22:36.07 |
``Erik |
but a=3;;;;;;
is legal C |
| 22:36.22 |
louipc |
just empty
blocks eh? |
| 22:37.26 |
IriX64 |
all i get is
a warning that bu_debug is redefined not identically so it should
work. |
| 22:37.41 |
IriX64 |
took out the
if else condition to test |
| 22:38.46 |
``Erik |
if you're
mucking around with BRL-CAD source code, then yes, there is a
problem... if you put that in your own stuff, ...
*shrug* |
| 22:38.57 |
IriX64 |
my
stuff |
| 22:39.16 |
``Erik |
then why are
you using the bu_ prefix? |
| 22:39.35 |
IriX64 |
heh thought
of you if you don't already ahve it. |
| 22:41.15 |
IriX64 |
anyway its
probably inferior to yours but it too is yours if its
useful. |
| 22:41.54 |
``Erik |
I may be
going out on a limb here, but I think everyone with commit access
to the project has written that line of code before... |
| 22:42.25 |
``Erik |
and bu_debug
is an int flag, so you can switch it on and off without recompiling
everything |
| 22:42.41 |
IriX64 |
as i said
inferior to yours |
| 22:42.45 |
``Erik |
line 1252 of
include/bu.h |
| 22:43.06 |
``Erik |
followed by
the flag defines |
| 22:44.31 |
IriX64 |
err 1252
points me to parse.c |
| 22:44.56 |
louipc |
eh? |
| 22:45.05 |
IriX64 |
bu.h? |
| 22:45.42 |
IriX64 |
line 1252
says parse.c in a comment block |
| 22:46.34 |
``Erik |
hm, 1252 in
cvs head... |
| 22:46.51 |
IriX64 |
man no cvs
here |
| 22:47.09 |
IriX64 |
source
tarball |
| 22:47.10 |
``Erik |
brlcad keeps
mucking with it, heh |
| 22:47.14 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 22:47.21 |
``Erik |
it's in
there, just use your editors search functionality |
| 22:47.46 |
IriX64 |
i will ill
prollly learn something from it for which i thank in
advance. |
| 23:38.24 |
IriX64 |
thats a debug
system not an aid :) |
| 00:03.26 |
poolio |
Ah, other
errors I don't feel like fixing, I'll try out stable =) |
| 00:03.54 |
brlcad |
there isn't a
stable branch yet .. that will be *after* this next
release |
| 00:04.05 |
brlcad |
you can check
out the last release sources, though |
| 00:04.17 |
brlcad |
-r
rel-7-8-4 |
| 00:06.04 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
assumed previous releases were stable but heh...not always
so |
| 00:06.55 |
brlcad |
depends on
the platform and your system configuration as to whether it'll
build |
| 00:07.48 |
brlcad |
though
"stability-wise" in a traditional sense -- even CVS head is stable
-- just doesn't happen to compile right this second because of a
commit yesterday that hasn't been patched |
| 00:07.59 |
poolio |
ah
alright. |
| 00:08.02 |
brlcad |
stability
doesn't usually refer to compilation, my misnomer |
| 00:08.31 |
poolio |
Ah really?
What is your definition of stable? |
| 00:08.39 |
poolio |
When it does
run it is stable? |
| 00:11.44 |
brlcad |
it can refer
to compilation |
| 00:11.48 |
brlcad |
just not
"usually" |
| 00:12.10 |
brlcad |
usually imho,
it refers to the run-time stability of an application or
application suite |
| 00:12.21 |
brlcad |
known bugs
notwithstanding |
| 00:12.36 |
poolio |
Alright. I
would agree with that, just as an open source software user I find
that when something won't even compile to me, it has a stability of
nil. |
| 00:19.55 |
poolio |
brlcad: Haha.
Automake 1.10 isn't new enough...needs automake 1.6 or above...
silly minor numbers. |
| 00:21.07 |
brlcad |
poolio: ah,
that is fixed |
| 00:21.14 |
brlcad |
use the
autogen.sh from head |
| 00:21.40 |
poolio |
Ok. But still
a funny problem IMO |
| 00:22.10 |
brlcad |
yep -- it
ends up parsing 1.10 as 1.1.0 |
| 00:23.05 |
poolio |
Well
regardless, the number 1.10 is less than 1.6 so it's just doing
it's job. |
| 00:23.24 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 00:24.00 |
poolio |
Sounds more
like an error in automake's minor numbering scheme than an error in
the parsing of those numbers |
| 00:26.37 |
brlcad |
you'd think,
except it's actually just two separate numbers, not one floating
point number |
| 00:26.48 |
brlcad |
the decimal
is merely a conventional delimiter |
| 00:27.55 |
poolio |
Ah revision
numbers, where math operators are abused. |
| 00:28.40 |
Maloeran |
50k lines of
Fortran written by an engineer, not a programmer, over 15 years.
It's nice in its own very special way |
| 00:30.38 |
IriX64 |
could've been
cobol :) |
| 00:31.13 |
poolio |
could've been
lisp. ;) |
| 00:32.34 |
Maloeran |
Hey! Don't
you dare say a thing against Lisp :) |
| 00:33.09 |
IriX64 |
picture me
picturing that ;) |
| 00:34.13 |
``Erik |
cobol is a
language intended to be pragmatic that ended up being completely
academic. |
| 00:34.25 |
``Erik |
lisp is a
langauge intended to be completely academic that ended up
pragmatic. |
| 00:35.03 |
IriX64 |
#pragma
``Erik ~:) |
| 00:36.37 |
``Erik |
S-expressions
were intended to be the intermediate form... the 'human' version of
lisp was supposed to be something called m-expressions |
| 00:36.47 |
``Erik |
but, uh,
humans like s-expressions... a lot... |
| 00:37.12 |
``Erik |
like asm,
just as low level and super-powerful, yet obscenely
wieldable |
| 00:37.25 |
``Erik |
... n/m that
the h/w of the day was very different *cough* |
| 00:37.50 |
Maloeran |
Ah I see,
hardware which matched Lisp constructs directly |
| 00:39.06 |
``Erik |
every low
level lisp 1.5 operation maps to exactly one opcode which takes
exactly one cycle on an ibm 709 |
| 00:39.26 |
``Erik |
no low level
lisp 1.5 operation takes more than 2 clocks on a pdp11 |
| 00:39.28 |
``Erik |
... |
| 00:40.03 |
``Erik |
in weenie
terminology, um, car is adh, cdr is adl, ... |
| 00:41.04 |
``Erik |
C hw is the
pdp11, the x86 is a grossly bad match :/ |
| 00:42.38 |
Maloeran |
Itanium
hardware would have been really sweet for a C language with many
specific extensions |
| 00:44.55 |
poolio |
You guys are
big into optimization, eh? |
| 00:45.26 |
Maloeran |
I think I am,
yes, I'm very fond of assembly too |
| 00:46.04 |
Maloeran |
Erik prefers
to write Brainfuck compilers with optimisation though
:) |
| 00:54.59 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565522.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:10.29 |
``Erik |
brainfuck is
the minimal turing complete language with both input and output
notions added |
| 01:10.52 |
``Erik |
seriously, it
is the ULTIMATE in 'pragmatic' assembly languages |
| 01:11.11 |
``Erik |
everything
you do to modify it is a machine adaptation |
| 01:13.37 |
``Erik |
my bf
compiler/interpreter/etc exploration is very much a deep computer
science exploration, my friend :) |
| 01:14.41 |
``Erik |
<-- can't
help but to look as various archs as turing lanaguage plus
optimizitions... |
| 01:15.07 |
``Erik |
<-- cant
help to ponder what optimizations help among all archs |
| 01:15.46 |
``Erik |
obviously, ay
nearest neighbor algorithm is better expressed as a graph than a
tree in turing lanag |
| 01:16.11 |
``Erik |
... which is
why rayforce whumps adrt... fundamnetally.... |
| 01:16.44 |
``Erik |
something
I've been ragging about since I think 9 yrs ago |
| 01:17.36 |
``Erik |
(in my youth,
I very much had a notion that asm was important for fast
programs... I like to imagine I've learned better) |
| 01:18.32 |
IriX64 |
12737 301
777566 never mind asm :) |
| 01:19.04 |
``Erik |
ten years
ago, I discovered that asm was teh best language to learn and never
use again. |
| 01:19.15 |
``Erik |
it's very
good to understand how the machine works |
| 01:19.34 |
``Erik |
indeed, I
took classes in understanding it to the transistor
level |
| 01:19.52 |
IriX64 |
you have to
know what the instruction that broke is supposed to do if you're
going to fix it |
| 01:19.56 |
``Erik |
it's GOOD to
know it! but the minute you NEED it, something is horribly
wrong. |
| 01:20.39 |
IriX64 |
problem is
which asm are we going to teach our kids? |
| 01:20.59 |
IriX64 |
z80 m6502
8006 etc... |
| 01:21.06 |
``Erik |
and the good
on knowing it and when you need it... that barrier is where you
should know when to decide whether it's something htat needs to be
fixed at the language or the hw levle... |
| 01:21.07 |
IriX64 |
err
8086 |
| 01:21.15 |
``Erik |
<- done
'em all |
| 01:21.20 |
IriX64 |
me
too |
| 01:21.47 |
IriX64 |
can you
picture a 64bit z80? |
| 01:22.09 |
``Erik |
in the late
80's |
| 01:22.43 |
``Erik |
ever hear of
"worldnet" "the real |
| 01:22.50 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 01:22.56 |
``Erik |
al out of the
seattle area... |
| 01:22.59 |
IriX64 |
fidonet
mostly ``Erik |
| 01:23.24 |
``Erik |
fido was
intarweb, not bbs |
| 01:23.24 |
IriX64 |
my address
1:222/10.0 |
| 02:11.33 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 02:11.33 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near
you... |
| 02:21.42 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/mapping/ |
| 02:48.40 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: what
advantage would i gain working with cvs versus just waiting for the
release? |
| 02:51.07 |
Twingy |
you have know
idea how global illumination works do you |
| 02:51.11 |
Twingy |
*no |
| 02:51.27 |
IriX64 |
man I didn't
write it |
| 02:51.37 |
Twingy |
I'm talking
in general |
| 02:51.58 |
IriX64 |
quite an
accurate statement, but im willing to learn, teach me |
| 02:52.08 |
Twingy |
do you
understand that the whole point of global illumination is to create
an environment for light to bounce around in |
| 02:52.16 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 02:52.38 |
IriX64 |
how many
photons should i use? |
| 02:52.44 |
Twingy |
then you
understand that placing an object in the vacuum of space and
rendering it with global illumination is a pointless
endeavor? |
| 02:52.58 |
IriX64 |
why i got a
picture |
| 02:53.04 |
Twingy |
since there
is nothing for the light to bounce around and deposit
on |
| 02:53.17 |
IriX64 |
and what pray
tell is havoc? |
| 02:53.30 |
IriX64 |
its a raze
thing |
| 02:53.38 |
Twingy |
it's a poor
rendering because all of your photons went off into
space |
| 02:54.02 |
IriX64 |
im willing to
bet that copter looks like that in real life |
| 02:54.29 |
Twingy |
I disagree, I
wrote photon mapping code in brl-cad, I wrote path tracing code in
adrt, I know how it works |
| 02:54.49 |
Twingy |
you should
place it in a box or don't use it |
| 02:54.51 |
Twingy |
it's
pointless |
| 02:55.03 |
IriX64 |
so elucidate
like i said im genuially interested in learning how to use it
properly |
| 02:55.08 |
IriX64 |
err
ok |
| 02:55.13 |
Twingy |
it's like
computing 2+2 a million times just to get the answer to
2+2 |
| 02:55.22 |
Twingy |
it's
pointless |
| 02:55.44 |
Twingy |
I just told
you, there needs to be an environment for light to bounce off
of |
| 02:55.45 |
IriX64 |
no twingy if
what your saying is true i would get no picture |
| 02:55.52 |
Twingy |
model an
aircraft hangar |
| 02:55.59 |
Twingy |
wrong |
| 02:56.08 |
Twingy |
95% of your
photons are going off into space |
| 02:56.23 |
Twingy |
and photon
mapping relies on phong shading as the direct lighting
term |
| 02:56.31 |
IriX64 |
so all im
winding up with is the irradiance rays that struck? |
| 02:56.50 |
Twingy |
what you are
seeing is the phong shading term of the BRDF (bidirectional
reflectance distribution function) equation |
| 02:57.06 |
Twingy |
what you are
doing is getting a broken BRDF equation with partial phong
shading |
| 02:57.28 |
Twingy |
what you are
seeing is 95% phong shading |
| 02:57.39 |
IriX64 |
is there
anything in the geometry examples that would do a fair
test? |
| 02:57.52 |
Twingy |
I am only
going to repeat myself one more time |
| 02:57.58 |
Twingy |
listen very
carefully |
| 02:58.06 |
Twingy |
you need an
environment for light to bounce off of |
| 02:58.18 |
Twingy |
do you know
what I mean by environment? |
| 02:58.23 |
Twingy |
trees |
| 02:58.24 |
Twingy |
walls |
| 02:58.26 |
Twingy |
buildings |
| 02:58.28 |
Twingy |
tables |
| 02:58.30 |
Twingy |
desks |
| 02:58.50 |
Twingy |
those are
things light can bounce off of |
| 02:58.55 |
Twingy |
and
ultimately deposit on |
| 02:59.04 |
IriX64 |
and havoc
doesn't fit? |
| 02:59.14 |
Twingy |
havoc is
fine, it's not in an environment |
| 02:59.22 |
Twingy |
it's in
space! |
| 02:59.29 |
Twingy |
light doesn't
bounce off of space! |
| 02:59.55 |
Twingy |
put it in a
box if you are lazy! |
| 03:00.03 |
Twingy |
if you have
the time model an aircraft hangar |
| 03:00.07 |
Twingy |
make sure it
is enclosed |
| 03:00.26 |
Twingy |
get
it? |
| 03:00.31 |
IriX64 |
man thats
beyond my meager talents, im not a serious cadder |
| 03:00.49 |
Twingy |
then stop
using photon mapping :) |
| 03:00.52 |
Twingy |
it's
goofy! |
| 03:01.01 |
Twingy |
you can't
create an arb8? |
| 03:01.05 |
IriX64 |
why its so
much fun to wait an hour or two :) |
| 03:01.20 |
IriX64 |
all i created
was a pipe |
| 03:01.21 |
Twingy |
if you spent
3 seconds and made an arb8 around the havoc it'll look 100x
better |
| 03:01.39 |
IriX64 |
ill
try |
| 03:01.39 |
Twingy |
good! |
| 03:01.55 |
Twingy |
google for
this stuff that way you won't be so clueless! |
| 03:02.04 |
Twingy |
you're just
being lazy |
| 03:02.06 |
IriX64 |
hehe
thanks |
| 03:02.11 |
Twingy |
not a matter
of being smart |
| 03:03.23 |
IriX64 |
heh giver man
giver |
| 03:22.15 |
IriX64 |
allright how
do i get havoc *inside this arb8 ive created? |
| 03:26.59 |
deltazap |
expand the
arb8 around the havoc |
| 03:27.24 |
IriX64 |
can you walk
me through it? |
| 03:27.48 |
IriX64 |
assume i
haven't even taken the tutorial |
| 03:28.04 |
deltazap |
have you
drawn the havoc to the screen |
| 03:28.08 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 03:28.16 |
IriX64 |
and then
created arb8 |
| 03:28.54 |
deltazap |
and if you go
to edit, you get a listing of items that you can modify on the
arb8 |
| 03:29.06 |
IriX64 |
faces edges
etc? |
| 03:29.10 |
deltazap |
yes |
| 03:29.47 |
deltazap |
alright, then
go and select Scale |
| 03:30.11 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 03:30.32 |
deltazap |
scale the arb
so that its larger than the havoc |
| 03:30.43 |
IriX64 |
already
is |
| 03:31.12 |
deltazap |
alright,
check from the front and left views to make sure that the havoc is
inside the arb |
| 03:31.56 |
IriX64 |
its
not |
| 03:32.43 |
IriX64 |
now it
is |
| 03:35.12 |
deltazap |
alright,
there you go |
| 03:35.20 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 03:35.27 |
deltazap |
now from
there, i have no clue how to get photon mapping working
:P |
| 03:35.49 |
IriX64 |
takes a
flashlight :) |
| 03:40.08 |
IriX64 |
when i want
to move a face i usually make a fist :) |
| 03:43.27 |
IriX64 |
perl sucks
cpu man |
| 03:56.25 |
IriX64 |
music to draw
by :) |
| 03:59.54 |
IriX64 |
deltazap,
you're a serious user of brlcad aren't you? |
| 04:00.13 |
IriX64 |
i'm just a
novice as you've seen |
| 04:00.19 |
deltazap |
i started
learning last week |
| 04:00.20 |
deltazap |
:P |
| 04:00.44 |
IriX64 |
well you're
several lessons ahead of me |
| 04:02.05 |
IriX64 |
did you use
the html docs or the man pages? |
| 04:02.23 |
deltazap |
the pdfs made
from the html |
| 04:02.27 |
IriX64 |
meaning which
way is easier to learn from? |
| 04:02.40 |
IriX64 |
pdf
ah. |
| 04:06.03 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/mzNEqm58.html |
| 04:06.09 |
IriX64 |
my config
summary |
| 04:08.28 |
IriX64 |
man the
photons can't get in the box, all i get is a black
screen |
| 04:09.54 |
IriX64 |
but it went
through the motions |
| 04:12.44 |
deltazap |
wooo 3
fps |
| 04:14.01 |
IriX64 |
.5 fps here
:) |
| 04:14.01 |
IriX64 |
but im doing
a compile |
| 04:14.31 |
IriX64 |
fps=feet/per/stroke? |
| 04:18.10 |
deltazap |
hmm? |
| 04:20.38 |
Twingy |
IriX64, you
have to create a light source |
| 04:20.55 |
IriX64 |
you said an
arb8 |
| 04:21.04 |
Twingy |
IN ADDITION
TO THE ARB8 |
| 04:21.19 |
Twingy |
IriX64, do
you have any common sense? |
| 04:21.28 |
IriX64 |
you didn't
tell me that i told you i haven't even taken the tutorial
yet |
| 04:21.44 |
Twingy |
forget about
the tutorial |
| 04:21.46 |
Twingy |
use your
logic boy! |
| 04:21.54 |
Twingy |
if you stand
in a room |
| 04:21.57 |
Twingy |
and there is
no light bulb |
| 04:22.01 |
IriX64 |
you need
light yes |
| 04:22.05 |
Twingy |
it's going to
be pitch black! |
| 04:22.16 |
Twingy |
this isn't
rocket science |
| 04:22.18 |
IriX64 |
... but how
the farkle do i tell brlcad this point is a light bulb? |
| 04:22.31 |
Twingy |
make another
arb8 or a sphere or whatever |
| 04:22.37 |
Twingy |
and go into
the material editor |
| 04:22.41 |
Twingy |
and tag it as
a light |
| 04:22.44 |
IriX64 |
the say
what? |
| 04:22.51 |
Twingy |
make another
object |
| 04:22.57 |
Twingy |
and go into
the material settings |
| 04:23.06 |
Twingy |
and set the
shader to light source |
| 04:23.11 |
Twingy |
sheesis |
| 04:23.19 |
IriX64 |
look i dont
even know where the material setting is |
| 04:23.29 |
Twingy |
IriX64,
seriously dude, I knew how to do this after 6 hours of blindly
poking at brl-cad |
| 04:23.41 |
Twingy |
you need to
take a serious time out and rtfm |
| 04:23.51 |
IriX64 |
i have been
blindly poking for less than 5 minutes.... have a heart |
| 04:24.20 |
Twingy |
I have 0
tolerance for the lazy |
| 04:24.33 |
IriX64 |
bother |
| 04:25.47 |
IriX64 |
nice box :)
err wait... |
| 04:26.20 |
IriX64 |
light model
full gives me a square box |
| 04:26.45 |
deltazap |
you'll need
to move the camera into the box |
| 04:26.57 |
IriX64 |
and the
light |
| 04:29.29 |
IriX64 |
ahh reject
ejects the bloody arb8 |
| 04:30.29 |
IriX64 |
now we'll map
it my way :) |
| 04:32.20 |
IriX64 |
darn i was
wrong |
| 04:35.26 |
IriX64 |
ill just
remove it from the display |
| 04:35.47 |
IriX64 |
and take a
shot |
| 04:54.31 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/mHDWsq44.html |
| 04:54.34 |
IriX64 |
status |
| 06:07.07 |
Maloeran |
Okay,
unsurprisingly, I really don't like Fortran |
| 06:16.53 |
Maloeran |
And it
requires some obscure non-existing dfwin.mod thing to
compile |
| 07:49.40 |
brlcad |
by the way,
for anyone that was following Twingy's patient advice.. that
summary was "put the object into a box and render from inside",
which amounts to making a big arb8 and then subtracting another
slightly smaller arb8 or using the inside command to hollow it out,
creating a light inside the box (make an object, make a region, set
region to light), render in awe with his photon mapping lighting
model |
| 07:53.00 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669873.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 11:09.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54877097.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:41.29 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.115.88) |
| 12:08.38 |
*** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 13:00.09 |
deltazap |
brlcad: i was
going to mention that you had to hollow out the box |
| 13:22.04 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:39.40 |
deltazap |
hehe, my box
came out to be nice and green from the reflection |
| 13:40.05 |
deltazap |
is there any
way to zoom into a section without zooming in too far and cutting
off portions of the model? |
| 14:50.20 |
``Erik |
It's obvious
that GNU/Linux is a woman. |
| 14:50.20 |
``Erik |
She's high
maintenance, expects everything to be given to her for free, and no
matter what goes wrong... it's your fault. |
| 15:00.22 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 15:28.41 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:43.01 |
louipc |
``Erik:
depends on what distro you choose |
| 15:44.06 |
louipc |
but yeah it
usually is your fault... especially if you're a noob |
| 15:44.53 |
louipc |
which I'd
rather have than it being the app's or OS's fault as I experienced
in Windows... because it's fixable |
| 15:47.14 |
``Erik |
heh,
sometimes you can fix t he apps' or os's fault... not windows,
but... *shrug* |
| 15:47.25 |
``Erik |
<-- likes
fbsd most, macs are nice desktop os's |
| 16:14.02 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:19.08 |
*** join/#brlcad rmorse
(n=rmorse@cpe-24-169-227-70.twmi.res.rr.com) |
| 16:20.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54877097.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:23.11 |
louipc |
maybe a bit.
someone recommended setting up a separate box if you want to use a
lot of drives, especially if they're scsi |
| 16:28.51 |
*** part/#brlcad rmorse
(n=rmorse@cpe-24-169-227-70.twmi.res.rr.com) |
| 16:34.54 |
*** join/#brlcad zord
(n=3e986e82@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:35.49 |
zord |
ello |
| 16:40.56 |
zord |
hi |
| 16:41.57 |
brlcad |
hi |
| 16:42.47 |
zord |
help... |
| 16:42.52 |
zord |
needed |
| 16:43.06 |
zord |
first time in
irc web |
| 16:43.33 |
zord |
how to change
channel |
| 16:43.36 |
zord |
? |
| 16:44.40 |
brlcad |
well, you
joined an irc web client dedicated to BRL-CAD |
| 16:44.47 |
brlcad |
so you get to
BRL-CAD channels |
| 16:45.06 |
brlcad |
otherwise
it's no different than any other irc client for changing
channels |
| 16:45.43 |
zord |
I should go
tu this channel:#kubuntu |
| 16:45.54 |
zord |
how
to? |
| 16:45.58 |
brlcad |
I suggest
getting a real irc client regardless -- the web interface isn't
meant as a replacement |
| 16:46.12 |
zord |
IM on
linux |
| 16:46.15 |
brlcad |
so? |
| 16:46.22 |
zord |
and I have
kopete |
| 16:46.31 |
brlcad |
try irssi or
xchat |
| 16:46.34 |
zord |
but I dont
have an account |
| 16:46.50 |
zord |
where to
register |
| 16:47.07 |
Maloeran |
You don't
need an account, just launch xchat and connect to
irc.freenode.org |
| 16:47.32 |
zord |
and with
kopete? |
| 16:47.43 |
Maloeran |
The command :
/server irc.freenode.org should work with about any IRC
client |
| 16:47.56 |
Maloeran |
Then /join
#channelNameHere to join a specific channel |
| 16:49.46 |
zord |
ok
thanks |
| 16:49.48 |
brlcad |
zord, kopete
is a horrible irc client -- you should get something better (like
irssi, xchat, bitchx, etc) |
| 16:50.09 |
Maloeran |
You'll
probably find xchat easier to use than the others |
| 16:50.12 |
brlcad |
probably
worse than the horrible web interface that you're using
now |
| 16:50.38 |
zord |
I'll try it
out.. |
| 16:50.42 |
zord |
thanks |
| 17:01.03 |
``Erik |
and I thought
it was irc.freenode.net :D |
| 17:06.35 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:09.16 |
IriX64 |
ok twingy,
i'm trying it with the provided sun illumination :) |
| 17:12.03 |
``Erik |
irix: maybe
you should read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_mapping
a couple dozen times, then read the external links a few dozen
times... |
| 17:12.06 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 17:12.19 |
``Erik |
y'know...
until you "get it",t hen a few times more |
| 17:12.42 |
IriX64 |
got
it |
| 17:13.28 |
IriX64 |
serious
question though, is there a way to remove an object from the
database once created? |
| 17:13.59 |
brlcad |
kill
objectname |
| 17:14.04 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 17:14.28 |
IriX64 |
gone
thanks |
| 17:14.30 |
brlcad |
there is no
undo |
| 17:14.39 |
IriX64 |
figured
that |
| 17:15.41 |
``Erik |
yet |
| 17:16.06 |
IriX64 |
heh who's
job, and i'm not volunteering :) |
| 17:16.14 |
``Erik |
I will never
eat krispy kreme again. Ever. http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=1853 |
| 17:16.26 |
louipc |
I think
autocad might have one of the most extensive undo capabilities
because it's so touchy |
| 17:17.20 |
IriX64 |
blargh on
krispy kreme :) |
| 17:17.38 |
``Erik |
did you, uh,
look at the url, irix? |
| 17:17.56 |
IriX64 |
yeah i read
it i agree ill never eat them |
| 17:18.25 |
louipc |
fake |
| 17:18.42 |
IriX64 |
i know did
you you read it close? |
| 17:19.09 |
louipc |
hah
sony |
| 17:21.36 |
IriX64 |
arb = a
rectangular box? |
| 17:25.45 |
IriX64 |
wonder if the
network drawing would load, mental note get a copy from the guy who
maintains it |
| 17:35.33 |
IriX64 |
for what its
worth http://www.pastebin.ca/409390 |
| 17:46.25 |
IriX64 |
my system at
work, btw slap me if i'm being annoying http://www.pastebin.ca/409402 |
| 17:51.45 |
*** join/#brlcad tedcx
(n=root@71.237.138.185) |
| 17:53.29 |
tedcx |
Making all in
adrt; Making all in libtie; kdtree.c: In function
'tie_kdtree_cache_load':;kdtree.c:811: warning: dereferencing 'void
*' pointer;kdtree.c:811: error: wrong type argument to unary
exclamation mark;make[3]: *** [kdtree.lo] Error 1;make[2]: ***
[all-recursive] Error 1; make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1;
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 17:54.18 |
tedcx |
I'm getting
the error above when making brlcad on a 64 bit SuSE Linux box
OpebSuSE 10.2 |
| 18:01.05 |
brlcad |
tedcx: add
--disable-adrt to the configure line |
| 18:01.30 |
brlcad |
it's not
meant to be prevalently enabled at the moment -- it hasn't been
fully integrated into the build |
| 18:02.14 |
tedcx |
thanks |
| 18:28.07 |
brlcad |
np |
| 18:44.11 |
tedcx |
export
ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/share/tcl/itcl3.3 doesn't seem to let mged find
a usable init.tcl |
| 18:50.21 |
*** join/#brlcad kwizart
(n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:08.02 |
brlcad |
tedcx: are
you working off of cvs head perchance? |
| 19:08.08 |
brlcad |
i'm in the
middle of something on head |
| 19:13.50 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-15.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:41.11 |
Twingy |
sweet potato
chips are tastey |
| 19:41.30 |
IriX64 |
and you know
this how ? :) |
| 19:51.23 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:58.36 |
IriX64 |
nice program
tho :) |
| 19:59.09 |
IriX64 |
wincvs that
is |
| 20:16.11 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 20:48.10 |
*** join/#brlcad cad45
(n=411e1320@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:14.16 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.06 |
IriX64 |
12fps on
wavefront, nice |
| 22:31.23 |
IriX64 |
to be fair
there's a compile going on tho |
| 22:35.40 |
IriX64 |
how many
people with commit access to the brlcad source tree
brlcad? |
| 22:36.41 |
IriX64 |
perhaps have
all members check a new commit no matter who commited it, sometimes
different people see different things |
| 22:37.21 |
IriX64 |
or the buddy
system if you prefer |
| 22:45.50 |
IriX64 |
id paste it
but ... |
| 22:46.58 |
IriX64 |
rather proud
of my little info thingy :) |
| 22:55.41 |
brlcad |
IriX64: see
the members list on the sf project page |
| 22:56.30 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 22:56.46 |
brlcad |
commits are
already sent to a commits mailing list so developers can review the
activity of others, as well as relayed into here, as well as
archived in several locations |
| 22:57.11 |
IriX64 |
but the
actual code? |
| 22:57.29 |
IriX64 |
i know it
would double your workload but... |
| 22:57.37 |
IriX64 |
may come in
handy |
| 22:57.56 |
brlcad |
what problem
would this solve? |
| 22:58.11 |
brlcad |
this is the
actual code, all changes |
| 22:59.11 |
IriX64 |
not a
problem, but just trying to help stop bugs from getting
through |
| 22:59.20 |
poolio |
hey brlcad,
can I email you a resume? |
| 22:59.26 |
IriX64 |
if you
already do it then forget what i said |
| 22:59.53 |
brlcad |
IriX64: it's
basically already done -- the only real help you could probably
provide would be to actually investigate and fix bugs |
| 23:00.06 |
brlcad |
or run code
analysis tools |
| 23:00.11 |
brlcad |
or security
analysis tools |
| 23:00.13 |
brlcad |
etc |
| 23:00.38 |
brlcad |
poolio:
sure |
| 23:00.54 |
IriX64 |
hey i wasn't
offering, just suggesiting |
| 23:01.00 |
IriX64 |
suggesting
too |
| 23:01.56 |
brlcad |
which
unfortunately frankly isn't helpful even if your intentions are
pure and you're just trying to help |
| 23:02.05 |
brlcad |
we have the
ideas, the ideas list is massive |
| 23:02.23 |
brlcad |
productive
contributions and activity |
| 23:02.32 |
brlcad |
that's what
is needed :) |
| 23:05.02 |
brlcad |
IriX64: check
over the TODO file doc/IDEAS files -- if there are items missing
you can think of, let me know and I'll add them |
| 23:12.34 |
IriX64 |
i will
brlcad, i will |
| 23:45.58 |
``Erik |
vim
doc/IDEAS |
| 23:46.21 |
``Erik |
Go* ignore
irix64^[ZZ |
| 23:46.33 |
``Erik |
cvs -z3
commit -m 'important todo' doc/IDEAS |
| 23:46.34 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 23:49.29 |
IriX64 |
;) already
did that |
| 23:58.08 |
IriX64 |
wincvs is not
for the faint of heart which reminds me i must uninstall
it |
| 00:06.46 |
``Erik |
erm,
... |
| 00:07.09 |
IriX64 |
you have code
analysis tools i could run? |
| 00:07.47 |
IriX64 |
im not good
at security, but i'll run your analyzers for you no matter how long
they take to complete |
| 00:08.06 |
Maloeran |
Erik, did you
see me mentionning that rtcmp doesn't compile here? |
| 00:09.00 |
``Erik |
ummmm, I
think so, uh, something aboput the nmg silent flag that requires a
newer BRL-CAD than you have? |
| 00:09.21 |
Maloeran |
Oh. I see,
okay |
| 00:09.45 |
``Erik |
you can
comment that line out, it just makes things a tiny bit
quieter |
| 00:10.35 |
Maloeran |
tri.c:234:
error: too few arguments to function 'bu_realloc tri.c:277:
error: 'nmg_bool_eval_silent' undeclared |
| 00:15.31 |
``Erik |
hm, I'll fix
the realloc thing tomorrow... but it SHOULD just be a warning
:/ |
| 00:16.10 |
``Erik |
fixing the
bu_realloc is easy, just add a message as the last arg |
| 00:22.38 |
Maloeran |
I really
should get used to the math notation some day. After spending
minutes translating "big" formulas into pseudo-code, I'm surprised
by how simple the thing is in the end |
| 00:34.01 |
tedcx |
BRLCAD: re:
can't find a usable init.tcl on execution of mged: Yes suing CVS
per istructions on the website - I'll try to find a
tar.gz |
| 00:34.46 |
brlcad |
tedcx: yes,
current known issue from a commit I made a couple days ago --
working on it now |
| 00:35.22 |
brlcad |
you should be
able to pull a cvs checkout of -r rel-7-8-4 |
| 00:35.41 |
brlcad |
er, cvs
update -r rel-7-8-4 -dP |
| 00:35.45 |
tedcx |
brlcad |
| 00:37.44 |
tedcx |
brlcad: where
is an x64 source for linux? |
| 00:38.15 |
brlcad |
the source is
the same for all platforms |
| 00:38.50 |
brlcad |
if you have a
checkout already, you should be able to run the above cvs command
and rebuild |
| 00:40.12 |
tedcx |
brlcad: OK,
am doing now |
| 00:40.57 |
tedcx |
brlcad: what
configure switches should be used? |
| 00:49.45 |
brlcad |
hm, probably
./configure --disable-adrt --enable-optimized |
| 00:49.58 |
brlcad |
have to rerun
autogen.sh after doing the update |
| 00:50.06 |
brlcad |
then
configure |
| 00:50.48 |
tedcx |
Brlcad: ran
autogen, am making now thanks |
| 01:09.21 |
IriX64 |
there's
something to be said for not trying to have the latest and greatest
*all the time:) |
| 02:07.02 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:20.10 |
deltazap |
man, being
able to use tcl in mged is pretty awesome |
| 02:20.23 |
deltazap |
now if it
could do ruby, we'd be onto something ;) |
| 02:22.20 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
soon enough :) |
| 02:22.53 |
deltazap |
:D |
| 02:29.09 |
deltazap |
brlcad: is
there a guide around on how to set up distributed ray
tracing? |
| 02:30.13 |
brlcad |
deltazap: not
a really good one .. the closest is probably the remrt manual
page |
| 02:31.18 |
brlcad |
basic idea is
to set up remrt with all of the usual rt parameters that you might
want to use |
| 02:31.25 |
brlcad |
then run
rtsrv on all your distributed hosts |
| 02:36.59 |
deltazap |
alright, i'll
have to start reading up |
| 02:39.56 |
deltazap |
my ibook
doesn't have quite enough power to do photon mapping by itself
:P |
| 03:05.55 |
deltazap |
i know i
asked this a few nights ago, but i don't know if someone
responed |
| 03:06.25 |
deltazap |
is there a
way to replace one primative for another region, for
instance? |
| 03:24.38 |
IriX64 |
Twingy: gave
it some light www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 03:25.10 |
Twingy |
you are
stilling missing an environment IriX64 |
| 03:29.27 |
IriX64 |
man its in
flight :P |
| 03:29.49 |
deltazap |
whoops,
crashed mged |
| 03:46.36 |
IriX64 |
thought you
crashed havoc for a moment :) |
| 04:01.53 |
IriX64 |
want to see
my bbs again.... i'm darn well going to. |
| 04:02.30 |
IriX64 |
say is random
chatter and mutterings permitted or not permitted during work
hours? |
| 04:16.16 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
combinations use named references, so if you refer to a primitive
and want to replace that primitive with something else, (whether it
be a region or another primivite) you can use the mvall
command |
| 04:17.07 |
deltazap |
ah, nice
:) |
| 04:17.37 |
brlcad |
so to replace
a primitive p.s with a region c.r, you'd mvall p.s c.r then restore
p.s with mv c.r p.s then kill c.r (which is a primitive) and then
create whatever you want to replace it with |
| 04:18.33 |
deltazap |
alright |
| 04:18.45 |
brlcad |
not the
clearest of examples, but hopefully you see -- you renamed all
references to the new name, then put something new in
place |
| 04:22.28 |
brlcad |
these are in
the 'Creating Geometry' section on http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
if that thelps |
| 04:22.28 |
deltazap |
next odd
question: is there any way to resize a region? |
| 04:22.28 |
deltazap |
i have that
printed out here somewhere |
| 04:22.29 |
brlcad |
resizing is
another way of saying scale |
| 04:22.29 |
brlcad |
found in the
"S R G set glob_compat_mode 1 |
| 04:22.29 |
brlcad |
eek |
| 04:22.29 |
brlcad |
Scaling and
Resizing Geometry in non-unicode form :) |
| 04:22.29 |
deltazap |
ok |
| 04:22.34 |
brlcad |
basically,
you oed the object (or matrix select via gui -- same thing) -- then
sca or select Scale on the menu |
| 04:22.57 |
deltazap |
that's what i
thought, but in the matrix selection, the region wasn't
listed |
| 04:23.33 |
brlcad |
if you want
to apply the scale to the primitives themselves, you'd use the push
and/or xpush commands |
| 04:24.28 |
deltazap |
ok |
| 04:29.27 |
deltazap |
last random
question of the night: how well does that .g -> cubit converter
and do you need testers :P |
| 04:29.36 |
deltazap |
*work |
| 04:33.16 |
brlcad |
it actually
works surprisingly well .. what I'm trying to sort out, though, is
how we can go about distribution |
| 05:02.45 |
IriX64 |
infozip
rather :) |
| 05:03.26 |
IriX64 |
tedcx did you
get yours to compile (to get back on topic) |
| 05:05.42 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: can i
really use this cvs client to access BRL-CAD latest
code? |
| 05:07.42 |
brlcad |
the very
latest is always in cvs |
| 05:07.55 |
IriX64 |
whats the
learning curve like? |
| 05:08.05 |
brlcad |
it's not
incredibly different |
| 05:08.14 |
brlcad |
but it's
current active development |
| 05:08.28 |
brlcad |
so even the
slightest typo and something might not build |
| 05:09.02 |
IriX64 |
i see you use
cvs till you get something building error free then you release a
new source tarball? |
| 05:09.20 |
brlcad |
it's
generally expected that you have a basic understanding of how to
resolve the simple build errors and occasional build failures or
run-time glitches if you work off of cvs HEAD |
| 05:09.38 |
IriX64 |
ill wait for
the source distribution, thanks |
| 05:10.09 |
IriX64 |
i mean i
think i can reslove build issues, but i have a slow
link |
| 05:10.13 |
brlcad |
sort of ..
the process has changed over the years and generally speaking, head
is stable and we simply release when we want |
| 05:10.34 |
brlcad |
which is
"supposed" to be once a month if everything is running
smooth |
| 05:10.57 |
IriX64 |
supposed mean
a lot of things to a lot of people :) |
| 05:11.03 |
IriX64 |
+s |
| 05:12.05 |
IriX64 |
but on the
other hand i downloaded the thing, maybe ill play with it whats the
address or is it on sourceforge? |
| 05:13.27 |
brlcad |
it's all on
sourceforge, including detailed instructions |
| 05:13.41 |
brlcad |
just follow
the CVS link on the sf project page |
| 05:16.12 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 05:22.49 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/bookmarks.html: add an initial
bookmarks file in NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1 html doctype format.
slews of links missing, but stub initial sections for news,
distribution, documentation, source analysis, and external
linkages. |
| 05:23.39 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/Makefile.am: install the
bookmarks.html file |
| 05:28.56 |
brlcad |
if you had a
cvs checkout -- those commits are actually "live" -- you could do a
cvs update on your source tree and get the modification immediately
no matter what it is |
| 05:30.25 |
IriX64 |
I see, i'm
skimming documentation here but see no way to connect to
sourceforge, or at least i haven't found it yet. |
| 05:37.21 |
IriX64 |
what is the
project name to enter into this thing BRL-CAD? |
| 05:42.18 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-15.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:06.14 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 06:08.21 |
IriX64 |
DogStar
running |
| 07:34.04 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:23.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54877948.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:35.35 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 12:40.43 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 12:40.43 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near
you... |
| 13:57.22 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:40.26 |
deltazap |
hmm, trying
to figure out why my photon mapping looks blown out in the render i
did over night |
| 16:08.56 |
brlcad |
light might
be too bright |
| 16:09.25 |
brlcad |
have to be
cautious towards the number of photons being used and the lumens of
the light in the scene |
| 16:15.54 |
clock_ |
brlcad: if I
want caustics, do I have to use photon mapping? |
| 16:17.05 |
brlcad |
clock_:
yes |
| 16:17.14 |
brlcad |
or some other
global illumination render |
| 16:17.57 |
clock_ |
brlcad: and
in BRL-CAD that means always photon mapping? |
| 16:18.59 |
clock_ |
brlcad: how
can I render with photon mapping? With rt? Or other
command? |
| 16:19.07 |
clock_ |
I didn't find
photon mapping in rt --help |
| 16:19.57 |
brlcad |
clock_: no,
it means photon mapping or converting the model to adrt and
rendering it with rise |
| 16:20.18 |
brlcad |
clock_: it's
easier to select photon mapping from the raytrace control panel in
the gui |
| 16:20.19 |
clock_ |
is rise part
of BRL-CAD? |
| 16:20.21 |
brlcad |
there are a
lot of options |
| 16:20.32 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
want for automated processing |
| 16:20.37 |
brlcad |
RISE is a
part of ADRT, which is included with BRL-CAD (but not compiled by
default yet) |
| 16:21.04 |
clock_ |
man -a rt rt
- AIMS Lab Radiotrack FM radio device |
| 16:21.13 |
brlcad |
clock_: I
mean use the gui to test/set the options .. then you can review
what the command-line parameters are for automation
afterwards |
| 16:21.47 |
brlcad |
the command
line params are displayed to the mged console |
| 16:41.19 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 16:55.06 |
deltazap |
you just have
to catch them quickly ;) |
| 17:34.13 |
tedcx |
brlcad: cvs
update -are rel-7-8-4 -dP seems to compile, benchmark,test and run.
Thanks for the help. |
| 18:20.41 |
brlcad |
tedcx: glad
to hear it |
| 18:41.13 |
``Erik |
Maloeran |
| 18:54.15 |
deltazap |
woo woo,
finished volume II tutorial |
| 18:56.27 |
``Erik |
w00t |
| 18:56.59 |
brlcad |
sweet |
| 19:02.38 |
IriX64 |
sweet if you
zoom out the drawing, the model is painted much faster |
| 19:06.02 |
``Erik |
um, I'm going
to guess that the speedup is inversely proportional to the number
of pixels being drawn? O.o cuz, um, that is kinda... y'know,
expected :) |
| 19:06.30 |
IriX64 |
who put that
beauty in the code :) |
| 19:07.37 |
IriX64 |
``Erik people
think my os is a toy.... I point to the threads picture... lets see
yours do that. |
| 19:07.45 |
``Erik |
what threads
picture? |
| 19:08.05 |
IriX64 |
www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 19:09.47 |
``Erik |
what, run an
emulator? |
| 19:10.05 |
IriX64 |
start 100000
threads |
| 19:10.09 |
``Erik |
um |
| 19:10.11 |
``Erik |
I do it all
the time? |
| 19:10.13 |
IriX64 |
err
10000 |
| 19:10.26 |
IriX64 |
on
windows? |
| 19:10.34 |
``Erik |
no, fbsd and
solaris are where I've really tanked up threads |
| 19:10.51 |
``Erik |
linux sucked
back in the day because it got sputtery around 16k threads on my
120mhz cyrix |
| 19:10.57 |
IriX64 |
me too with
os/2 but os/2 has a 4095 uppewr limit |
| 19:10.58 |
``Erik |
when fbsd
could keep grinding up to 100k |
| 19:11.03 |
``Erik |
solaris got
obscene |
| 19:11.08 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 19:11.17 |
IriX64 |
define
obscene |
| 19:11.54 |
IriX64 |
how do you
spawn a thread in ansi c |
| 19:11.54 |
``Erik |
thousands and
thousands of processes, each with thousands and thousands of
threads, and the machine was still responsive? |
| 19:11.57 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 19:12.09 |
IriX64 |
they obeyed
the priorities assigned |
| 19:12.16 |
``Erik |
ansi C has no
notion of threads, but the POSIX library for doing them is called
pthreads |
| 19:12.46 |
IriX64 |
so if you're
going to code to ansi spawn and exec are your only
options? |
| 19:12.56 |
``Erik |
spawn? |
| 19:13.02 |
IriX64 |
spawnv |
| 19:13.13 |
IriX64 |
much like
exec |
| 19:13.13 |
``Erik |
exec replaces
the running process, and is not ansi, it's POSIX |
| 19:13.27 |
``Erik |
you're
probably thinking of fork(), which is also not ansi, it's
posix |
| 19:13.35 |
IriX64 |
wait now ansi
supports exec |
| 19:13.45 |
``Erik |
ansi C has no
notion of processes, threads, etc... those are library or kernel
supplied |
| 19:14.15 |
IriX64 |
my reference
says exec is supported shall i pastebin it |
| 19:15.22 |
``Erik |
exec* is an
os facility, not a C lang facility, or even a C stdlib
facility |
| 19:15.52 |
``Erik |
http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/webmonkeys/book/c_guide/
<-- that is ansi C. |
| 19:16.48 |
IriX64 |
my mistake,
wrong os mea culpa |
| 19:16.57 |
``Erik |
(are ya
thinking of system() ?) |
| 19:17.05 |
IriX64 |
maybe |
| 19:17.46 |
IriX64 |
ahhh a dos
function, sorry ``Erik |
| 19:18.01 |
IriX64 |
any and body
else who beleived me :) |
| 19:18.15 |
IriX64 |
err
anybody |
| 19:18.21 |
Maloeran |
You can't do
multiple threads or processes with ANSI C |
| 19:18.24 |
``Erik |
posix has a
whole family of exec* functions, like execl, execle, execlp,
execvp, .. |
| 19:18.52 |
IriX64 |
windows
supports _beginthread |
| 19:18.52 |
``Erik |
mal, I'm
putting a very big ugly present in cvs for you |
| 19:19.19 |
``Erik |
windows also
supports pthreads, but you're on your own for function prototypes
there *cough* |
| 19:19.32 |
IriX64 |
process.h? |
| 19:19.42 |
Maloeran |
Erik, a
coherent ray bundle benchmark? :) |
| 19:19.58 |
``Erik |
no, a big
endian cache file :) |
| 19:20.22 |
Maloeran |
All right,
thanks |
| 19:21.18 |
``Erik |
24m, so it'll
take a bit to upload |
| 19:22.16 |
Maloeran |
Which model?
You could have picked a light one |
| 19:23.23 |
``Erik |
trucks |
| 19:23.35 |
IriX64 |
nice
reference page ``Erik thankyou, added to my favs list. |
| 19:24.05 |
``Erik |
irix: it was
a quick google... |
| 19:24.22 |
IriX64 |
ill have to
learn how to do google eyes :) |
| 19:24.25 |
``Erik |
mebbe I
should adone city, heh :) |
| 19:25.08 |
``Erik |
irix: with
your pics, the black helicoptor images are photon
mapped? |
| 19:25.22 |
IriX64 |
yes with no
light source |
| 19:25.31 |
IriX64 |
moonlight
:P |
| 19:25.37 |
``Erik |
well, of
course there was a light source, there was just nothing to contain
the photons |
| 19:26.04 |
IriX64 |
i meant no
sun |
| 19:26.20 |
``Erik |
you should
carve a hollow box and put the mi28 on the floor so we can see the
pretty soft shadows |
| 19:26.56 |
IriX64 |
im not a
serious brlcadder ``erik that sounds too much like work
:) |
| 19:27.05 |
IriX64 |
``Erik
too |
| 19:27.51 |
``Erik |
um, make two
boxes, one slightly bigger than the other... then type something
like "c box.r box1.s - box2.s" |
| 19:28.08 |
``Erik |
then get the
light source, helicoptor and camera all in the box and render
it |
| 19:28.11 |
IriX64 |
just a sec
let me bring it up well try |
| 19:31.11 |
IriX64 |
ok extraced
the sun and then havoc pressed multi-pane defaults and ive got
havoc on the screen now what. |
| 19:31.18 |
IriX64 |
extracted
too |
| 19:31.33 |
``Erik |
oh, and if
you google for mi28 or "mi 28 havoc", you'll see lots of sies with
specs, pictures, some movies, ... :) it was an impressive machine,
probably a good thing the russians decided it was too expensive
O:-) |
| 19:31.43 |
``Erik |
make a
box |
| 19:31.47 |
``Erik |
then make
another box |
| 19:31.50 |
IriX64 |
what
size |
| 19:31.54 |
IriX64 |
sizes |
| 19:31.54 |
``Erik |
big |
| 19:32.27 |
``Erik |
like, bigger
than the havoc |
| 19:32.32 |
IriX64 |
s0 and s1
created |
| 19:32.38 |
IriX64 |
arb 8
both |
| 19:32.43 |
IriX64 |
arb8 |
| 19:35.06 |
IriX64 |
didn't even
know it was called mi28 |
| 19:36.40 |
IriX64 |
wife calls be
right back |
| 19:45.24 |
IriX64 |
what do I do
now ``Erik? |
| 19:48.28 |
``Erik |
one arb8 is
bigger than the other? |
| 19:48.34 |
IriX64 |
no |
| 19:48.45 |
IriX64 |
dont know how
to do that |
| 19:49.02 |
``Erik |
well, get one
on the screen, sed it, click edit, click scale, and do like p
0.99 |
| 19:49.04 |
``Erik |
then
'accept |
| 19:49.26 |
``Erik |
y'know, this
exercise is probably in the modeling tutorial |
| 19:49.57 |
IriX64 |
you
offered |
| 19:50.04 |
IriX64 |
i did the p
0.99 |
| 19:50.21 |
``Erik |
ok, it made
one just he tiniest bit smaller, right? |
| 19:50.27 |
``Erik |
like, say,
99% of the bigger ones size? |
| 19:50.28 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 19:50.37 |
``Erik |
type "accept"
and hit enter |
| 19:50.49 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 19:50.51 |
``Erik |
then create a
combination where you subtract the smaller one from the bigger
one |
| 19:51.20 |
IriX64 |
``Erik this
is a walk through, how is that done? |
| 19:51.39 |
``Erik |
this is about
to not become a walkthrough, but a point down a path :D |
| 19:51.46 |
IriX64 |
heh
ok |
| 19:51.54 |
IriX64 |
which
tutorial? |
| 19:52.42 |
``Erik |
VolumeII-Intruduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 19:52.49 |
``Erik |
lesson 5,
page 37 |
| 19:52.54 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 19:53.18 |
IriX64 |
now i need a
pdf viewer sigh.... |
| 19:53.19 |
``Erik |
page 39 is
subtraction, you want to subtract the smaller box from the bigger
one |
| 19:53.26 |
``Erik |
no adobe
reader? |
| 19:53.30 |
IriX64 |
no |
| 19:58.13 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-89-172.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:01.50 |
IriX64 |
urf
pkg_suckin read error now on photon mapping, ``Erik what'd you do
:) |
| 20:08.28 |
``Erik |
woops, my
havoc is glass, heh |
| 20:10.47 |
IriX64 |
kill works
:) |
| 20:10.59 |
IriX64 |
thanks to
brlcad: for pointing that out |
| 20:11.38 |
IriX64 |
wish to see
my control screen? |
| 20:12.22 |
IriX64 |
never mind
its just like yours |
| 20:42.48 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54877948.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:21.01 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544063.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:02.04 |
IriX64 |
Twingy:
www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad < ==== too much light
:) |
| 23:02.53 |
IriX64 |
how to build
a star :) |
| 23:14.26 |
Twingy |
great IriX64,
you've demonstrated that 30 years of cad development is good for
making yellow circles, here is your gold star |
| 23:17.08 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
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| 23:27.25 |
IriX64 |
heh give me
credit twingy im not running from the experts :) |
| 23:28.11 |
IriX64 |
brlcad is 30
years old twingy? I didn't realize that. |
| 23:28.27 |
IriX64 |
acad is what
12? |
| 23:30.05 |
brlcad |
since '79
(since '83 for first release) |
| 23:32.37 |
IriX64 |
explains why
its so rich in feature set |
| 23:33.39 |
IriX64 |
is it
permissable to advertise it, we have a local steel mill here who
builds thir own brake wheels for cars and such im sure they would
be interested. |
| 23:34.43 |
IriX64 |
Twingy i
could try turning their machine shop onto g-cam if it's
ready. |
| 23:36.18 |
IriX64 |
that blog is
for us i haven't let the url out to anybody outside the
channel |
| 23:41.29 |
brlcad |
advertising
is always permissable, and generally encouraged if done well, not
offensive, nor obtrusive, etc .. getting the word out is
important |
| 23:41.56 |
IriX64 |
ill let the
steel mill know then, they are heavy into acad at the
moment |
| 23:47.07 |
louipc |
I'm not
completely certain, but I don't think steel mills really use cam
software |
| 23:47.35 |
IriX64 |
they have a
machine shop louipc, latest nc gear |
| 23:48.03 |
IriX64 |
twingy says
he can produce tape louipc |
| 23:48.38 |
IriX64 |
not sure of
their platform tho, may still be a vax |
| 23:49.59 |
IriX64 |
big mill 3rd
largets in Canada |
| 23:50.05 |
IriX64 |
larest
too |
| 23:50.12 |
IriX64 |
err largest
grrr |
| 23:51.45 |
IriX64 |
think the
rank is Stelco=1 Dofasco-2 Algoma=3 |
| 00:09.15 |
IriX64 |
good ole make
-i |
| 00:09.41 |
IriX64 |
ill figure
tclscripts out later :) |
| 00:14.40 |
IriX64 |
Tim Myers?
are you the Tim Myers from weston road in Toronto? |
| 00:14.54 |
IriX64 |
how you
been? |
| 00:16.06 |
brlcad |
you can be so
random |
| 00:16.23 |
IriX64 |
why
tclscripts are a pita :) |
| 00:16.37 |
IriX64 |
not
random |
| 00:17.11 |
IriX64 |
joevalleyfield? question
stands. |
| 00:20.18 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:20.32 |
brlcad |
Mario? ar
you the Mario from Mario Bros.? Do you work for
Nintendo? |
| 00:20.50 |
IriX64 |
heh yes
actually have you seen luigi? |
| 00:21.11 |
brlcad |
he's tied up
in the back room |
| 00:21.20 |
IriX64 |
to the typer
i suppose |
| 00:21.20 |
poolio |
ah
what? |
| 00:22.12 |
louipc |
no it's Mario
Lemieux |
| 00:22.19 |
IriX64 |
But Tim i
actually know... |
| 00:22.20 |
louipc |
(the
better) |
| 00:22.28 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 00:22.34 |
brlcad |
he's not the
tim you know, k? |
| 00:22.37 |
IriX64 |
sore knees
and all huh? |
| 00:22.41 |
IriX64 |
k |
| 00:25.06 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/Makefile.am: don't include
the include dir because it's now a SUBDIR, otherwise distcheck
whines |
| 00:25.36 |
IriX64 |
brlcad man
it's after hours :) |
| 00:26.04 |
IriX64 |
ahh i see the
effort that never sleeps ;) |
| 00:27.28 |
IriX64 |
well the
exe's are installing |
| 00:28.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am
tk/Makefile.am): |
| 00:28.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: the
work is never done. clean up the build specification for tcl/tk so
that |
| 00:28.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
other targets like install, distclean, distcheck, and even
uninstall (which |
| 00:28.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
tcl/tk bastages don't provide themselves) now work. have to expand
the unix |
| 00:28.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
subdir to appease distcheck success. |
| 00:42.36 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 00:58.40 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
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| 00:59.23 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
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| 01:52.15 |
IriX64 |
whether to
link against the opengl library=yes, whether to build against
opengl = no :) |
| 01:52.37 |
IriX64 |
-
:) |
| 01:53.59 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64, are
you compiling brl on irix? |
| 01:54.33 |
IriX64 |
my system is
not irix, sorta a strange beast which is why i don't file formal
bug reports |
| 01:55.24 |
IriX64 |
80% of the
bugs are probably due to my strange environment |
| 01:55.41 |
IriX64 |
but every
once in a while its due to brlcad code |
| 01:55.54 |
IriX64 |
and brlcad
said he wanted to know either way |
| 01:58.38 |
IriX64 |
bjorkBSD: are
you a developer or user? |
| 01:59.47 |
IriX64 |
or a tinkerer
like me :) |
| 02:00.23 |
bjorkBSD |
tinkerer. |
| 02:00.29 |
bjorkBSD |
do i sound
*anything* like a developer?! |
| 02:00.44 |
IriX64 |
heh does it
compile on your system? |
| 02:00.57 |
bjorkBSD |
i only play
with it on bsd. |
| 02:01.05 |
bjorkBSD |
my irix box
still lacks a head so i haven't tried it there yet. |
| 02:01.46 |
IriX64 |
ahh I see the
nick interested you? |
| 02:02.05 |
IriX64 |
fellow user
and all that, sorry don't know irix from beans |
| 02:02.21 |
bjorkBSD |
ah. |
| 02:02.56 |
bjorkBSD |
what oddment
do you use then? |
| 02:02.56 |
IriX64 |
i know there
are irix binaries though, probably so do you |
| 02:04.02 |
IriX64 |
oddment? you
mean my system?= Cygwin |
| 02:04.07 |
bjorkBSD |
oh i
see. |
| 02:04.18 |
bjorkBSD |
but brlcad
runs on windows. |
| 02:04.20 |
bjorkBSD |
i'm sure you
knew that :) |
| 02:05.11 |
bjorkBSD |
binary
version. |
| 02:05.20 |
IriX64 |
have that
prefer this |
| 02:05.59 |
IriX64 |
have you seen
the examples rendered on this little system? |
| 02:06.43 |
bjorkBSD |
yes i've seen
'em. |
| 02:08.00 |
bjorkBSD |
see before i
started on this misadventure, i thought 3d cad was gonna be a piece
of cake |
| 02:08.11 |
bjorkBSD |
i just
couldn't figure out how to put my room into it... |
| 02:08.30 |
bjorkBSD |
and then i
read someplace that i had to know how to sketch decently. i was
mortified. |
| 02:08.46 |
bjorkBSD |
hehehe |
| 02:47.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (48 files in 48 dirs): (log message
trimmed) |
| 02:47.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
restructure library linkages so that brl-cad libraries no longer
list their |
| 02:47.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
dependencies as a LIBADD. dependencies are moved into configure.ac
and provided |
| 02:47.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: via
_LIBS variables so that they are specified at link time. this
supports |
| 02:47.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
hybrid static library compilation as well as other more varied
mixture |
| 02:47.35 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
configurations. use the new _LIBS variables throughout. probably
want to |
| 02:47.37 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
re-combine them later into a single symbol name per library but
this will |
| 03:14.39 |
deltazap |
it's bad
because i sat with autocad today to bang out a design so that i
could take it to a metal shop to be made |
| 03:14.56 |
deltazap |
it was
actually easier for me to use brlcad to make a model first
:X |
| 03:15.18 |
deltazap |
now i'm just
going to convert the database and markup with
dimensions |
| 03:17.17 |
bjorkBSD |
inneresting |
| 03:39.52 |
*** join/#brlcad joevalle1field
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| 03:41.21 |
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| 03:41.21 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by
irc.freenode.net |
| 03:42.58 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:46.27 |
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| 03:54.43 |
zapp |
whoa |
| 04:00.59 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
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| 04:12.56 |
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| 04:19.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran
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| 05:16.24 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran:
interested in a thread count?
www.irix64.spaces.live.com |
| 05:16.48 |
IriX64 |
trying for
15000 next :) |
| 05:33.30 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@trapezewireless82.insecure.utah.edu) |
| 05:35.21 |
cadguy |
Evening.
Anyone know what the status of the CVS repository is? |
| 06:31.08 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 09:36.56 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: fftest needs
libm |
| 09:42.23 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: get rid of fmax() and use
V_MAX() instead |
| 10:28.12 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
thanks for the extra button. |
| 10:28.21 |
clock_ |
When is the
next release? :) |
| 10:28.29 |
clock_ |
I think
that's gonna make the work much easier. |
| 13:00.54 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 13:20.42 |
brlcad |
hopefully
today! |
| 13:20.52 |
brlcad |
i'm seeing
green lights across the board |
| 13:21.00 |
brlcad |
doing
run-time testing now |
| 13:21.01 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
across the board? |
| 13:21.22 |
clock_ |
sound like
seeing a ship coming while paddling on a surfboard |
| 13:21.31 |
brlcad |
I test
compilation and run-time functionality across several
platforms |
| 13:21.34 |
clock_ |
green lights
are the left side or the right one? |
| 13:21.45 |
brlcad |
when they all
seemingly "work", it's "green across the board" |
| 13:22.21 |
clock_ |
aha like in a
train control centre? |
| 13:22.36 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 13:23.26 |
clock_ |
that means
7.x.y is going to appear on the sourceforge download
page? |
| 13:30.12 |
``Erik |
7.10.0, and
once he finishes his bench runs I'd hope... |
| 13:39.17 |
brlcad |
bench is
already green |
| 13:39.21 |
brlcad |
i'm to mged
testing |
| 13:42.36 |
clock_ |
bench is
already green |
| 13:42.46 |
clock_ |
sounds like a
pub visit that included vomiting |
| 13:43.13 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 13:50.24 |
bjorkBSD |
disGUSTING
clock_ |
| 13:56.44 |
deltazap |
when i get
more time, i think i'm going to try to put together a MacPorts for
brlcad |
| 13:57.06 |
deltazap |
i...uh...mean...if i get more
time |
| 13:58.57 |
``Erik |
should be
reasonably easy, osX is one of the primary dev
platforms |
| 13:59.18 |
deltazap |
yeah, i was
surprised that there wasn't a MacPort already |
| 13:59.22 |
brlcad |
mmmacports..
good stuff |
| 14:00.24 |
deltazap |
it's the
easiest way to get most gnu utils |
| 14:06.09 |
``Erik |
once gnucash
w as in macports, I dropped fink and totally migrated
:) |
| 14:08.08 |
deltazap |
fink just
never really seemed right |
| 14:09.09 |
clock_ |
mac maniacs
always say everything on mac is perfect |
| 14:11.16 |
``Erik |
not perfect,
just a lot better than anything else :D |
| 14:11.16 |
``Erik |
*duck* |
| 14:14.00 |
deltazap |
linux zealots
tell people to fix the software themself when there's a bug
report |
| 14:14.04 |
deltazap |
*ducks* |
| 14:15.43 |
clock_ |
yeah instead
of doing their homework and fixing bugs which they themselves
created ;-) |
| 14:16.21 |
``Erik |
http://bash.org/?749223 |
| 14:18.16 |
``Erik |
http://bash.org/?749430 |
| 14:18.22 |
``Erik |
heheh linux
quotes :) |
| 14:41.35 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 14:56.06 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096670186.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:57.37 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782617.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:07.11 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc__
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096668116.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:16.55 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782365.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:32.38 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669506.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:43.15 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc__
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753754.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:54.37 |
IriX64 |
www.irix64.spaces.live.com (Feb.21
albumn) |
| 16:57.10 |
IriX64 |
louipc: neat
:) |
| 17:02.16 |
*** join/#brlcad TimRiker
(n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 17:02.35 |
TimRiker |
hmm.. brlman
"for those systems that do not have nroff" is used on
debian? |
| 17:04.21 |
TimRiker |
hehe. "wall"
is not "wall" anymore. |
| 17:05.30 |
IriX64 |
starting one
from your distributed files |
| 17:05.40 |
TimRiker |
brlterm on
debian should run x-terminal-emulator, NOT xterm. |
| 17:05.48 |
IriX64 |
lets see if
my bug goes away :) |
| 17:05.53 |
brlcad |
oop, sorry,
reading elsewhere |
| 17:06.47 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782728.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:07.07 |
TimRiker |
hd and wall
need renaming. :) |
| 17:07.13 |
brlcad |
TimRiker:
brlterm? |
| 17:07.41 |
TimRiker |
in the debian
package. starts up an xterm with /usr/brlcad/bin in the path before
other things. |
| 17:08.13 |
brlcad |
ah, sounds
like something the guy that made the .deb put together |
| 17:08.20 |
TimRiker |
I don't use
xterm. I use urxvt which x-terminal-emulator would start, but
brlterm (the shell script) explicitly starts xterm. |
| 17:08.31 |
TimRiker |
yeah, the deb
needs work. |
| 17:09.57 |
TimRiker |
where is the
tutorial? |
| 17:10.18 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/tri.c: notify if using
tri-cache |
| 17:10.21 |
TimRiker |
what does the
windows version look like? does in just install a bunch of separate
binaries too? |
| 17:10.25 |
brlcad |
there are
several tutorials on http://brlcad.org/ |
| 17:10.42 |
brlcad |
as well as
cheat sheets, developer guides, etc |
| 17:11.21 |
TimRiker |
"Introduction
to MGED" ? I was expecting a link that said tutorial, or getting
started, etc. |
| 17:11.35 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: function
prototypes... |
| 17:11.57 |
TimRiker |
I don't even
know what MGED is yet. |
| 17:13.02 |
bjorkBSD |
heh TimRiker
you sound just like me! |
| 17:13.47 |
bjorkBSD |
but the truth
is 3d modeling is a sophisticated dark art. |
| 17:14.00 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: Simple partition list
comparison function, reports RMS deviation if it makes sense. Shoot
spiral bundles instead of the same ray (should probably be changed
to an ortho grid to keep ray density uniform) |
| 17:14.01 |
``Erik |
gui frontend
for "the system" and modeler |
| 17:14.01 |
bjorkBSD |
akin to
composing music or creating mathematical models :) |
| 17:14.31 |
bjorkBSD |
the
software's just there to enhance the skills you have. |
| 17:15.10 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: use the partition list
comparison function instead of blindly printing out the
lists |
| 17:16.06 |
IriX64 |
woe befalls
anybody who commits a sin ;) |
| 17:18.05 |
IriX64 |
isn't that
interesting, restarting configure works now. |
| 17:18.08 |
brlcad |
TimRiker: yes
.. particularly confusing as "BRL-CAD" is actually a system of
tools and does not (currently) have a unifying interface.. a bazaar
of 400 tools and a couple dozen libraries |
| 17:18.26 |
TimRiker |
``Erik: yeah,
figured that out. my comment was on the brlcad.org home page, it
points to MGED but does not explain what it is. |
| 17:18.30 |
brlcad |
mged is just
the predominant gui interface at the moment that most associate
with BRL-CAD |
| 17:18.36 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735174.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:19.06 |
TimRiker |
brlcad: not a
problem. same could be said for pbm-tools et. al. |
| 17:19.07 |
brlcad |
TimRiker:
there's lots of "pre-existing" expert knowledge expected frankly
that is acquired, expert-friendly per-se |
| 17:19.09 |
``Erik |
heh, wha'ts
mged stand for again? Monstrosity of a Gui EDitor? O:-D |
| 17:19.33 |
brlcad |
multiple-device geometry
editor |
| 17:20.13 |
TimRiker |
brlcad: just
the home page should show "Introduction to MGED (multiple-device
geometry editor)" or similar. |
| 17:20.19 |
IriX64 |
military
groups of excited developers ``Erik :) |
| 17:20.35 |
brlcad |
TimRiker:
heh, the web site needs a lot more than that ;) |
| 17:20.44 |
brlcad |
very minimal
"brain dump" of information |
| 17:20.47 |
bjorkBSD |
*coughs* |
| 17:20.51 |
bjorkBSD |
ah yes. the
home page. |
| 17:20.54 |
bjorkBSD |
*coughs* |
| 17:21.26 |
TimRiker |
hehe |
| 17:21.26 |
bjorkBSD |
*hides in
embarassment* |
| 17:21.33 |
brlcad |
it's back to
being #1 priority after this next release :) |
| 17:23.09 |
brlcad |
TimRiker: in
all fairness, the very first document (Overview of BRL-CAD) did
explain what MGED is |
| 17:23.24 |
bjorkBSD |
is brlcad the
oldest 3d cad program. ever? |
| 17:24.16 |
brlcad |
it's close,
but i don't think so |
| 17:24.32 |
brlcad |
probably the
oldest still in use, and certainly the oldest open source cad
system |
| 17:24.40 |
``Erik |
first line in
'79, yo |
| 17:24.47 |
TimRiker |
brlcad:
perhaps. only scanned the intro so far. |
| 17:24.59 |
brlcad |
I think the
magi corp's modeler actually came first |
| 17:25.34 |
brlcad |
brl-cad does
(still) include the very first distributed parallel
ray-tracer |
| 17:27.51 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/422731
(don't quite grok this ) |
| 17:28.47 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos__
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 17:28.54 |
``Erik |
erm, it's a
test to see if tcl works... why do you need to grok it? |
| 17:28.59 |
``Erik |
(part of a
test, rather...) |
| 17:29.35 |
IriX64 |
cause i have
a system lib and cant get your file to recognize the
fact |
| 17:30.23 |
IriX64 |
keeps saying
try enabling tcl build |
| 17:30.23 |
``Erik |
look for the
offending section in config.log |
| 17:30.27 |
IriX64 |
ty i dinna
thought of that |
| 17:31.54 |
IriX64 |
blah,
tcl_init returned error |
| 17:32.00 |
IriX64 |
farkles |
| 17:32.46 |
``Erik |
heh... and
you got segfaults in libtcl itself a few days ago... seriously,
dude, are you sure your system tcl isn't borked? |
| 17:32.49 |
brlcad |
there's a
typo in there too |
| 17:32.53 |
brlcad |
that is fixed
on head |
| 17:33.05 |
brlcad |
but then
you're still not using head |
| 17:33.37 |
IriX64 |
the seg
faults i fixed, now using tcl8.4 |
| 17:33.49 |
IriX64 |
should work
whats the typo? |
| 17:34.08 |
``Erik |
bah, libtool
is outsmarting itself again, src/adrt/isst/master fails on fbsd,
openpty and forkpty are in /usr/lib/libutil.so and it keeps linking
src/adrt/libutil/libutil.la :/ |
| 17:34.23 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 17:34.47 |
IriX64 |
and i thought
my stuff was "fraught" :) |
| 17:36.32 |
TimRiker |
timr@slop:~$
wall |
| 17:36.33 |
TimRiker |
wall:
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found
(required by /usr/brlcad/lib/librt.so.19) |
| 17:36.33 |
TimRiker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:38.41 |
TimRiker |
so back on
the pdp-11 screenshot, what app is running? is that stuff still
around? ie could one setup brl-cad on a pdp-11 ? |
| 17:38.44 |
brlcad |
sounds like
the .deb was compiled against an incompatible glibc? |
| 17:38.55 |
TimRiker |
yep. looks
that way. |
| 17:39.47 |
brlcad |
that
screenshot is an old version of "ged", the precursor to
mged |
| 17:40.07 |
brlcad |
i'm not sure
anyone has tried in at least 10 years, but yes .. most of the
code/pieces to work are there |
| 17:40.27 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754591.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:40.53 |
brlcad |
probably have
issues compiling directly that would need tweaking, but nothing
major (mostly adoption / assumption of an ansi-compliant compiler,
which pdp-11 didn't have) |
| 17:41.31 |
brlcad |
TimRiker: but
to give you an idea, I have compiled brl-cad under simh (running a
bsd variant) |
| 17:41.59 |
IriX64 |
``Erik i'm
going to fake it out and see what happens |
| 17:42.00 |
deltazap |
quick
question about converting from a g database to dxf |
| 17:42.01 |
brlcad |
no gui
obviously, at least I don't know how to simulate a framebuffer in
simh |
| 17:42.37 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
shoot |
| 17:43.42 |
deltazap |
i don't know
if i did it right :P |
| 17:44.13 |
deltazap |
this is what
i typed in "/usr/brlcad/bin/g-dxf -i -oskids.dxf skids.g skids.c
> skids.dxf" and it seems like qcad isn't showing
anything |
| 17:44.41 |
deltazap |
but another
question, if i'm using the -o switch, i shouldn't need to redirect
the stream, right? |
| 17:50.26 |
brlcad |
doesn't look
right |
| 17:50.37 |
brlcad |
-o skids.dxf
and no redirect iirc |
| 17:51.29 |
brlcad |
crossing the
streams would be bad |
| 17:52.59 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096668101.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:53.55 |
``Erik |
I've been
slimed! |
| 17:54.05 |
TimRiker |
brlcad: simh
does not have gui support in mainstream, but there are patches.
what OS did you use? |
| 17:54.07 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (8 files in 8 dirs): since
libutil is forced static, skip libtool and just build a static lib
(fixes build issue on OS's where the system libutil is required for
python) |
| 17:55.47 |
``Erik |
a netbsd
iirc |
| 17:55.49 |
``Erik |
? |
| 17:56.31 |
brlcad |
i played with
a 4.3 bsd I ran across, but ultimately went to town with a
netbsd |
| 17:56.42 |
IriX64 |
finally
churning a compile |
| 17:56.54 |
``Erik |
did you do
pdp11? I thought you did a vax |
| 17:57.17 |
TimRiker |
I fired up
unix V5 in simh the other say. (that's version 5 not system
5) |
| 17:57.54 |
``Erik |
<-- was
having fun with lisp on pdp1 last year :) |
| 17:57.56 |
brlcad |
did ``Erik: i
got even farther with the vax and netbsd |
| 17:58.12 |
TimRiker |
there are
some claimed pdp-1 parts on ebay atm. |
| 17:58.29 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc__
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782795.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:58.50 |
bjorkBSD |
TimRiker,
like the on/off switch? |
| 17:59.06 |
TimRiker |
heh. nope.
plugin boards. |
| 17:59.08 |
bjorkBSD |
i have prime
waterfront property to sell to you if you're interested
:) |
| 17:59.13 |
``Erik |
"honest, this
vacuum tube really is from a pdp1!" |
| 17:59.52 |
TimRiker |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097918224
for example. |
| 18:00.39 |
``Erik |
well, they
look like pdp modules |
| 18:00.53 |
brlcad |
but do they
smell like pdp modules |
| 18:00.56 |
IriX64 |
a tube that
looks like a board? neat :) |
| 18:00.58 |
bjorkBSD |
they look
like they were built from a popular electronics
article. |
| 18:01.01 |
``Erik |
but I already
have a computer about as useful as a pdp1 would be |
| 18:01.40 |
``Erik |
hehehe,
electrolytics were the best, nice big pop :D |
| 18:01.41 |
IriX64 |
thos are
resistors heating your basement |
| 18:01.49 |
IriX64 |
those
too |
| 18:02.14 |
IriX64 |
all sorts of
5 watt resistors :) |
| 18:02.37 |
``Erik |
quarter watt
resistors make pretty flashes and "woofs" when you put wall power
on them |
| 18:03.42 |
``Erik |
solder under
wall power is crazy, though, vaporizes some of the metal, the flux
goes crazy, and makes a fun little shower of molten/burning
material, along with a nice big black mark on the
outlet |
| 18:03.58 |
brlcad |
so that's
where henry's been hiding when he plays hide-n-seek |
| 18:04.00 |
IriX64 |
which pase
does that ``Erik :P |
| 18:04.07 |
IriX64 |
phase
too |
| 18:04.40 |
``Erik |
regular old
117v 60hz wall socket shtuff, irix, no need to bust open the
breaker box and fry yourself on the three-legged stuff |
| 18:05.06 |
``Erik |
(was using
fine 60/40 electronics solder, though, the skinny
stuff) |
| 18:05.22 |
IriX64 |
heh the 70
requires it had to find it somewhere |
| 18:05.22 |
``Erik |
ah, the joys
of stupid youth |
| 18:05.49 |
IriX64 |
developmental
youth |
| 18:11.27 |
TimRiker |
brlcad: hehe.
he was hiding behind it just the other day. :) I also have a double
rack full of other HP crap^Wstuff |
| 18:11.51 |
TimRiker |
most of the
rest: http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050615_012504 |
| 18:11.51 |
TimRiker |
plenty in
#classiccmp |
| 18:12.33 |
IriX64 |
3 board
computer cpu,mem,floppy sweet machine |
| 18:14.33 |
bjorkBSD |
TimRiker,
what do these machines do? |
| 18:14.42 |
bjorkBSD |
consuming 1's
and 0's? :P |
| 18:15.57 |
``Erik |
mmmm, 1's and
0's, binarybits :) a simpler food then hexadecimal bits, but more
filling |
| 18:16.31 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, there
are less bits how can it be more filling ? |
| 18:17.13 |
IriX64 |
errr never
mind they translate :) |
| 19:20.03 |
TimRiker |
bjorkBSD: I
used a 4 user time shared basic environment on an old HP-2114B
system. I could in theory run the same environment on my hardware.
There are other HP OSes that can run there too, but my goal is a
time shared basic system. |
| 19:22.11 |
bjorkBSD |
ah
okay. |
| 19:23.20 |
TimRiker |
bjorkBSD:
simh will emulate them if you want to get a feel for
it. |
| 19:23.29 |
bjorkBSD |
hmm i
see. |
| 19:24.30 |
archivist |
I sometimes
wonder which HP computer the 5420A signal analyser has in the
center section |
| 19:25.55 |
bjorkBSD |
about the
only thing that ever seems to get everyone chattering on here's
oldhardware and machine/metalwork. |
| 19:26.00 |
bjorkBSD |
very
odd. |
| 19:26.10 |
bjorkBSD |
... and rc
planes. and 'lectronics. |
| 19:26.20 |
bjorkBSD |
spheroids?
rhomboids? never! |
| 19:28.37 |
bjorkBSD |
see? i told
ya. |
| 19:30.59 |
archivist |
I just saw
the new price in 1978 $29900 |
| 19:33.10 |
bjorkBSD |
you have any
'scopes? |
| 19:33.21 |
archivist |
a
few |
| 19:33.43 |
archivist |
mostly
Tektronix |
| 19:34.01 |
bjorkBSD |
analog? |
| 19:34.06 |
TimRiker |
http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=16352
<- there's a computer in there? |
| 19:34.21 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/422879
(how now with system tcl (which I do have)) |
| 19:34.58 |
archivist |
TimRiker,
bottom section in that picture |
| 19:35.39 |
bjorkBSD |
damn you
collect expensive toys, archivist. |
| 19:36.18 |
archivist |
they "were"
expensive new, I cannot afford any new HP gear |
| 19:36.53 |
TimRiker |
no idea.
don't recognize that machine. |
| 19:37.24 |
archivist |
I must pull a
pcb or two see if any numbers ring a bell |
| 19:38.19 |
archivist |
I loads its
program from an internal tape drive in the top section |
| 19:39.53 |
archivist |
the tape
drives have died so no longer usable |
| 19:47.29 |
archivist |
wee it has an
internal label stating processor 2105A |
| 19:48.28 |
archivist |
I left the
tape section next door |
| 19:50.26 |
TimRiker |
2105A is
supposed to be like the 2108A from what I recall. perhaps shorter?
http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446 |
| 19:52.35 |
TimRiker |
inside the
front: http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132501 |
| 19:52.48 |
archivist |
this seems
somewhat built around inside the middle section with interface and
memory etc |
| 19:53.23 |
TimRiker |
inside the
back; http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132632 |
| 19:53.35 |
archivist |
could be
thats a lot taller |
| 19:53.55 |
TimRiker |
notice the
card slots on front and rear. memory cards go on the front, and i/o
cards on the rear. |
| 19:54.14 |
TimRiker |
the 2112a is
similar but taller. Perhaps the 2105 is shorter? |
| 19:54.25 |
archivist |
heh identical
label on rear about which way up |
| 19:54.54 |
archivist |
another 4
screws.... |
| 19:56.10 |
TimRiker |
my 2108 has 4
mem boards and a controller. there are higher density mem cards
though, so it could have 64k(bytes) with just 2 cards. |
| 19:57.18 |
TimRiker |
there are
pics in the gallery of the both sides of the main board on the
2108a |
| 20:00.54 |
archivist |
11 screws 4
card frame 3 in it |
| 20:02.21 |
archivist |
64k mem
12747A |
| 20:03.41 |
archivist |
2102B mem
controller |
| 20:13.54 |
TimRiker |
mine is a
2102A mem controller. |
| 20:14.32 |
TimRiker |
64k? not 32k?
that's really 128kb then. |
| 20:17.07 |
deltazap |
brlcad: i had
tried the converter that way, but it actually didn't do anything
for me |
| 20:17.07 |
deltazap |
and i think
the qcad demo can't do anything with it.... |
| 20:17.08 |
TimRiker |
you need some
kind of extended mem hardware for that. I don't have any. JayWest
would be one to ask. so you've got twice the RAM I have.
:) |
| 20:17.08 |
TimRiker |
archivist:
are there i/o cards on the other side? what cards? |
| 20:17.08 |
archivist |
yes a gpib
and an interface and a termination card |
| 20:19.04 |
archivist |
1 odd card
with 3 74S181 on it and a large ttl etc card underneath the frame
(ttl) and a bunch of cards marked with 82s115's |
| 20:19.30 |
archivist |
and another
card marked booster microcode |
| 20:19.44 |
TimRiker |
ask on
#classiccmp and see if anyone there knows. |
| 20:20.12 |
archivist |
may be a
special for the instrument |
| 20:20.20 |
TimRiker |
perhaps. |
| 20:21.13 |
TimRiker |
I expect the
machine would run the 4 user MSU time shared basic with only a bit
of tweaking. tweaking that's not done yet though. |
| 20:21.14 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
"didn't do anything" as in didn't create a file? created an empty
file? what was in there? |
| 20:21.20 |
brlcad |
did it output
an error? |
| 20:24.27 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-92-21.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:36.11 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.177.47) |
| 20:55.04 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic_
(n=docelic@212.91.115.66) |
| 21:13.51 |
deltazap |
sorry for
blinking in and out |
| 21:13.53 |
deltazap |
when i do
"/usr/brlcad/bin/g-dxf -i -o skids.dxf skids.g skids.c |
| 21:14.10 |
deltazap |
it just says
"skids.dxf: no such file" |
| 21:14.35 |
deltazap |
but that
should be the right syntax and switches |
| 21:27.31 |
deltazap |
hah, oh great
:-\ |
| 21:27.42 |
deltazap |
it looks like
autocad 2002 doesn't like my dxf |
| 23:03.49 |
*** join/#brlcad TimRiker
(n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 23:50.35 |
brlcad |
aha! found
and fixed the last remaining tcl bug holding up release |
| 00:52.47 |
IriX64 |
Natalies
Interactive Ray Tracer :) |
| 02:15.29 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613860.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:23.22 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
you'll find that even versions of autocad don't agree on how they
interpret their own standard |
| 02:23.50 |
brlcad |
the model
doesn't have to be oriented in any particular order |
| 02:24.13 |
brlcad |
i think our
coordinate systems are actually identical iirc, but don't quote me
on that (it's just a rotation if they're not) |
| 02:32.42 |
brlcad |
deltazap: the
was a big ambiguity in the standard regarding 3dface support (and
whether a blessed duplicate fourth vertex was required) that even
autocad used to choke on but later fixed .. if you're using 7.8.0+
though, it shouldn't matter |
| 02:33.54 |
brlcad |
as the code
was modified to support old and new 3dface specifications (where it
originally only supported new) |
| 02:58.02 |
deltazap |
strange |
| 02:59.15 |
deltazap |
i'm going to
compile the new version and see if it clears up my issue with at
least qcad |
| 03:08.07 |
brlcad |
latest cvs
head should be good now |
| 03:08.25 |
brlcad |
new source
release really is hours away (probably thursday
sometime) |
| 03:08.38 |
deltazap |
haha,
nmm |
| 03:08.43 |
brlcad |
binaries
posted through the rest of the week |
| 03:08.59 |
brlcad |
what version
were you using? |
| 03:09.06 |
brlcad |
s/were/are/ |
| 03:15.31 |
deltazap |
7.6.6 is
what's on sourceforge for OSX |
| 03:17.45 |
deltazap |
i built 7.8.4
on my other machine to see how long it would take and it never even
crossed my mind that i had an older version on my ibook |
| 03:19.05 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 03:19.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
version only outputs dxf that newer autocad and other cad packages
will read |
| 03:20.41 |
deltazap |
7.8.4? |
| 03:24.53 |
deltazap |
i can
understand that 7.6 would also have a problem with older versions
of autocad, such as 2002 *sigh* |
| 03:25.48 |
brlcad |
7.8.4 should
work on old |
| 03:26.20 |
deltazap |
hmm |
| 03:26.49 |
brlcad |
anything
7.8.0+ iirc |
| 03:27.55 |
deltazap |
hmm,
ok |
| 03:53.00 |
deltazap |
ohohoh, one
other question: why doesn't the -i switch work with -o? |
| 03:53.37 |
brlcad |
seriously? |
| 03:54.31 |
deltazap |
if i did
g-dxf -i -o (filename), it claims that (filename) isn't
there |
| 03:55.49 |
brlcad |
did it say
"Cannot open output file (filename) for writing" ? |
| 03:56.38 |
brlcad |
ooh,
eek |
| 03:56.42 |
deltazap |
nope, just
that the file didn't exist |
| 03:57.04 |
deltazap |
it looks like
it's ignoring multiple switches |
| 03:57.53 |
brlcad |
wow, you just
found a somewhat prevalent bug |
| 03:57.59 |
deltazap |
:D |
| 03:58.12 |
brlcad |
a one-char
typo |
| 04:01.30 |
brlcad |
prevalent ==
4 converters |
| 04:02.12 |
brlcad |
mind if I
credit you? |
| 04:03.27 |
deltazap |
sure
:) |
| 04:08.20 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:08.20 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
Shawn Baker identified a bug in g-dxf (which in turn was found in
g-acad, g-nff, |
| 04:08.20 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: and
g-obj too) where the -i argument ended up gobbling up the following
argument |
| 04:08.20 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
incorrectly. e.g g-dxf -i -o filename.dxf blah.g object would end
up in a |
| 04:08.20 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
filename.dxf error. |
| 04:09.03 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-acad.c g-dxf.c g-nff.c
g-obj.c): |
| 04:09.03 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
Shawn Baker identified a bug in g-dxf (which in turn was found in
g-acad, g-nff, |
| 04:09.03 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: and
g-obj too) where the -i argument ended up gobbling up the following
argument |
| 04:09.03 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
incorrectly. e.g g-dxf -i -o filename.dxf blah.g object would end
up in a |
| 04:09.03 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
filename.dxf error. |
| 04:09.57 |
brlcad |
thanks, great
lil catch! |
| 04:11.45 |
deltazap |
no problem
:D |
| 04:12.22 |
deltazap |
glad to put
the g-dxf converter through it's paces ;) |
| 04:26.38 |
deltazap |
doot doot
doo, almost done with building 7.8.4 |
| 04:29.33 |
Twingy |
almost done?
you obviously need a slower computer |
| 04:30.54 |
deltazap |
it's a
PPC |
| 04:30.59 |
deltazap |
Poor Persons
Computer |
| 04:31.30 |
Twingy |
I should have
never sold my Mac SE |
| 04:31.40 |
Twingy |
I still have
a 60 MHz PowerPC |
| 04:31.46 |
Twingy |
I bet mine is
slower |
| 04:31.55 |
deltazap |
oh, yeah, of
course it is |
| 04:32.02 |
deltazap |
mine's a 1.2
ghz g4 |
| 04:32.07 |
Twingy |
yea, just a
tad faster |
| 04:32.09 |
deltazap |
woo,
done |
| 04:32.13 |
Twingy |
I have 24MB
of ram in it |
| 04:32.22 |
Twingy |
and a 500GB
scsi drive |
| 04:32.27 |
Twingy |
err
500MB |
| 04:35.08 |
deltazap |
bah! qcad
still can't display the .dxf |
| 04:45.14 |
brlcad |
qcad could
have their own independent issues |
| 04:45.16 |
brlcad |
what about
2002? |
| 04:45.41 |
deltazap |
don't have it
on me right now, will check when i get to campus |
| 04:46.36 |
brlcad |
iirc, qcad's
dxf importer is actually a rather custom subset hack |
| 04:46.48 |
brlcad |
but it's been
a while |
| 04:47.30 |
brlcad |
vaguely
recall someone saying it couldn't parse entity names that had
punctuation in them or something like that |
| 04:48.15 |
deltazap |
hmm |
| 04:48.49 |
brlcad |
not saying
that's a the problem.. one of probably a dozen similar conformance
issues |
| 04:49.49 |
deltazap |
for marking
up dimesions, it seems like autocad is about the only options out
there |
| 04:49.52 |
brlcad |
if you can
find why qcad chokes, would be good to know to try and accommodate
them |
| 04:50.00 |
deltazap |
yeah |
| 04:50.18 |
brlcad |
maybe they
have a verbose/debug mode or something similar |
| 05:06.21 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543300.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:16.36 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc__
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543388.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:22.47 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014963.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:30.04 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614102.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:36.34 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614151.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:41.12 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:39.13 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543411.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:14.22 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 09:27.24 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753899.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:44.05 |
clock_ |
What do you
think about this logo for the upcoming Twibrigt Labs' monolithic
operating system SPAD? http://ronja.twibright.com/spad.png |
| 12:46.44 |
deltazap |
huh, i should
have tested mged last night... |
| 13:22.43 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
why's that? |
| 13:27.13 |
deltazap |
error with
itcl |
| 13:29.44 |
deltazap |
"Itcl_Init
error Can't find a usable itcl.tcl in the following
directories: |
| 13:29.49 |
brlcad |
ah, it found
a system tcl |
| 13:29.52 |
brlcad |
er,
itcl |
| 13:30.14 |
brlcad |
add
--enable-itcl-build to configure |
| 13:30.28 |
brlcad |
assuming
you're on head |
| 13:31.25 |
deltazap |
this error
came from launching mged after building the 7.8.4
sources |
| 13:32.39 |
deltazap |
the error is
saying that it couldn't find a system itcl anywhere in
/System/Library |
| 13:35.53 |
brlcad |
oooh,
7.8.4 |
| 13:36.02 |
brlcad |
that's
another ball of wax |
| 13:36.37 |
brlcad |
with 7.8.4,
it would have tried to use the Tcl framework, which won't work with
that version |
| 13:36.45 |
deltazap |
:X |
| 13:36.47 |
brlcad |
that's all
rather changed |
| 13:37.03 |
brlcad |
add
--enable-almost-everything instead ;) |
| 13:37.16 |
brlcad |
that should
make 7.8.4 happy on os x |
| 13:37.26 |
brlcad |
and
--enable-optimized of course |
| 13:37.43 |
brlcad |
or just wait
for the 7.10.0 tarball later today |
| 13:38.07 |
deltazap |
hmm,
alright |
| 13:56.34 |
deltazap |
alright, time
to get running to school for test |
| 15:10.33 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 15:11.35 |
``Erik |
y'know, she's
pissing me off. I was over at the conf room for the ccb, gave up a
couple minutes after 10... came back to the office, decided I was
bored so I read email... she scrubbed it this morning. be nice if a
little more notice were given, some of us don't read email every
hour :/ |
| 15:13.04 |
``Erik |
(I'm seeing
the /tmp issue, too... I set TMPDIR=/usr/tmp to see if that fixes
things, the line in the makefile is: &&
dc_destdir="$${TMPDIR-/tmp}/am-dc-$$$$/" |
| 15:13.07 |
``Erik |
) |
| 16:22.37 |
*** part/#brlcad deltazap
(n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:23.00 |
*** join/#brlcad deltazap
(n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:23.18 |
deltazap |
whoops, wrong
window :X |
| 17:44.38 |
*** join/#brlcad cad67
(n=3e2f228e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:17.54 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:31.22 |
IriX64 |
7-10
tarball? |
| 19:31.48 |
IriX64 |
where? |
| 19:33.33 |
IriX64 |
not on
sourceforge :( |
| 19:36.06 |
``Erik |
brlcad is
being a lazy turd and chattering instead of
releasing... |
| 19:36.29 |
IriX64 |
heh well it
is a chat network |
| 19:36.36 |
``Erik |
in
person... |
| 19:36.44 |
IriX64 |
err ok
:) |
| 19:38.13 |
IriX64 |
``Erik i'm
thinking of getting a real system, what would you recommend for a
nove *nix user? |
| 19:39.14 |
IriX64 |
err
novice |
| 19:40.30 |
``Erik |
uh, system as
in OS or hardware? |
| 19:40.35 |
deltazap |
IriX64: mac
:P |
| 19:40.41 |
IriX64 |
tiger? |
| 19:41.02 |
IriX64 |
heh how much
for a basic good boxen? |
| 19:41.52 |
deltazap |
a mac mini
runs at about $600 now |
| 19:42.01 |
IriX64 |
thats
all? |
| 19:42.12 |
``Erik |
I bought my
ibook for $700 4 yrs ago |
| 19:42.17 |
deltazap |
yeah, one of
the little tiny machines |
| 19:42.27 |
deltazap |
and i bought
my ibook 2 years ago for 900 |
| 19:42.40 |
IriX64 |
this is
doable |
| 19:42.50 |
IriX64 |
i never
followed the mac line |
| 19:42.52 |
``Erik |
not like
they're obscenely expensive unless you go high end
*shrug* |
| 19:43.02 |
IriX64 |
don't need
high end |
| 19:43.18 |
``Erik |
I think the
one I'm sitting at now was ~$10k... two 23" cinemadisplays plus all
maxed out specs for a dual g5 tower |
| 19:43.24 |
deltazap |
IriX64: get
one of these: http://www.apple.com/macpro/ |
| 19:43.47 |
``Erik |
of course,
you could just slap fbsd or leenewx on any old functional
'puter |
| 19:43.58 |
``Erik |
dual boot
your winderz box or something *shrug* |
| 19:44.27 |
IriX64 |
deltazap
isn't that considered high end? |
| 19:44.28 |
deltazap |
IriX64: if
you want to just mess with Linux, try out Ubuntu |
| 19:44.34 |
deltazap |
yeah
:D |
| 19:44.42 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 19:44.42 |
deltazap |
but look at
it! 8 cores! |
| 19:45.00 |
IriX64 |
gimme a braek
i wouldnt know aht to do with that |
| 19:45.34 |
``Erik |
rt knows what
to do with that |
| 19:45.37 |
deltazap |
make -j8 all
day |
| 19:45.39 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 19:45.46 |
IriX64 |
maybe a gift
from the easter bunny :) |
| 19:45.46 |
``Erik |
gmake
-sj |
| 19:46.28 |
IriX64 |
don't get me
wrong i like my current setup (quite functional) |
| 19:47.40 |
IriX64 |
-msse3 (ohhhh
baby) |
| 19:48.43 |
deltazap |
so, i can
confirm that the dxf converter isn't completely broken, some
programs can read files from it |
| 19:48.57 |
deltazap |
it's just
autocad and qcad that are broken :P |
| 19:49.04 |
``Erik |
hrm, only
$14k |
| 19:50.17 |
IriX64 |
for that
system deltazap pointed me to? |
| 19:50.59 |
``Erik |
for a dressed
up mac pro |
| 19:51.11 |
``Erik |
how I'd
probably get one if I made work buy it :) |
| 19:51.15 |
``Erik |
tempting... |
| 19:51.22 |
IriX64 |
wonder if
she'd let me undress her :) |
| 19:53.20 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/425903
<-- brlcad being compiled by my strange system :) |
| 19:57.25 |
IriX64 |
don't get
that statement at link time :) |
| 19:58.57 |
deltazap |
doobie
shoobie dooot |
| 19:59.27 |
IriX64 |
heh living on
the fault line (doobie brothers circa 73) |
| 20:05.11 |
IriX64 |
where can i
study up on endianess? |
| 20:05.26 |
IriX64 |
ahhh never
mind ill try thos google thing |
| 20:05.31 |
IriX64 |
this
too |
| 20:09.50 |
IriX64 |
ahh
big-endian is stored the way we write it true? |
| 20:10.22 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 20:10.52 |
IriX64 |
ie 1025 vs
2510 |
| 20:37.51 |
``Erik |
big endian is
the way youd' think it's stored... the hex value aabbccdd is stored
as aa bb cc dd, opposed to dd cc bb aa |
| 20:38.17 |
IriX64 |
thats what i
meant |
| 20:38.37 |
``Erik |
the C
one-liner for showing how it's stored is something
like... |
| 20:38.38 |
``Erik |
int main(int
argc, char **argv) { union { int v; char c[4]; } v; v.v =
0xaabbccdd; printf("%x is %x %x %x %x\n", v.v, 0xff&v.c[0],
0xff&v.c[1], 0xff&v.c[2], 0xff&v.c[3]); return 0;
} |
| 20:38.42 |
IriX64 |
whose
brainchild is little-endian :) |
| 20:38.47 |
``Erik |
intel. |
| 20:39.05 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 20:39.07 |
``Erik |
dec was doing
"middle-endian" though |
| 20:39.17 |
IriX64 |
middle? |
| 20:39.22 |
IriX64 |
news to
me |
| 20:39.26 |
deltazap |
i'm going to
end up marking up this schematic with photoshop :X |
| 20:40.00 |
``Erik |
irix64:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness |
| 20:40.15 |
IriX64 |
dec did 12737
301 777566 and it appeared that way in memory |
| 20:40.27 |
IriX64 |
loc 1000
etc |
| 20:40.59 |
IriX64 |
1000/12737
10001/301 1002/777566 |
| 20:41.45 |
IriX64 |
just puts an
'A' to the typer :) |
| 20:41.58 |
IriX64 |
but if you
add 137 1000 it loops forever |
| 20:42.22 |
``Erik |
pdp11 stored
0x0a0b0c0d as b a d c |
| 20:42.38 |
IriX64 |
true but it
was transparent |
| 20:42.45 |
``Erik |
heh, "bad
c"... how... fitting? :D |
| 20:42.51 |
IriX64 |
ie the
concole handled it as well as the compiler |
| 20:43.02 |
IriX64 |
console
too |
| 20:43.08 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 20:43.20 |
``Erik |
all machines
make it "transparent" when the machien stands alone... it's not
until you try to do data exchange between two machines of different
endian and/or bit width that issues crop up |
| 20:43.51 |
``Erik |
and the
intarweb is built big endian, so it's only a bitch for people who
touch wrong-endian machines... er... little endian
machines... |
| 20:44.00 |
IriX64 |
not just data
exchange such is true for trying to compile on one type for another
type |
| 20:44.10 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 20:44.54 |
``Erik |
um, type
casts are handled "intelligently" by the compiler... if you cast a
long to a short (provided it fits), it'll handle placing the bytes
for you... |
| 20:45.32 |
IriX64 |
the compiler
*should tell you if its a proper cast or not |
| 20:45.51 |
IriX64 |
brlcad has
such as warnings |
| 20:46.20 |
IriX64 |
initialization from incompatible pointer
type |
| 20:46.30 |
``Erik |
yes, they'll
warn... but they'll figure out where to put the bits... you don't
have to do it "by hand" |
| 20:46.40 |
IriX64 |
true |
| 20:46.54 |
IriX64 |
if its worth
its salt that is some just kaff |
| 20:47.12 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753899.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:48.45 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/425971
<--- speak of the devil |
| 20:49.47 |
louipc |
I'm not sure
what to say about him |
| 20:50.19 |
``Erik |
which one?
the robot devil? |
| 20:51.11 |
IriX64 |
she
devil....oh yeah ;) |
| 20:52.25 |
louipc |
fembots |
| 20:53.03 |
IriX64 |
seven of
borg |
| 20:53.39 |
``Erik |
six was
cooler... (tripping the rift) |
| 20:54.03 |
IriX64 |
caution 'e'
detected... incoming ;) |
| 20:55.09 |
deltazap |
``Erik: i
thought you were talking about caprica six |
| 20:55.31 |
``Erik |
oh, well...
yeah, tricia's pretty rockin', too |
| 21:17.32 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706198.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:21.46 |
IriX64 |
that multiple
definition of ogl_open etc thing fixed in 7-10? |
| 21:21.51 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:29.11 |
IriX64 |
if memory
serves there are two ogl_open routines, in mged and libdm (i
think) |
| 21:30.04 |
brlcad |
libfb and
libdm |
| 21:30.11 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 21:30.28 |
IriX64 |
you grep very
fast :) |
| 21:30.34 |
IriX64 |
im
slow |
| 21:30.44 |
IriX64 |
builds ok
without opengl though |
| 21:30.57 |
brlcad |
no grep
involved |
| 21:31.09 |
brlcad |
just know
it |
| 21:31.14 |
IriX64 |
kudos |
| 21:31.14 |
brlcad |
that code has
changed on head too |
| 21:31.19 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 21:31.22 |
brlcad |
no longer
named the same |
| 21:31.40 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 21:34.15 |
IriX64 |
i noticed
they were different :) |
| 22:17.41 |
deltazap |
when does the
topic change to "7.10 release party"? |
| 22:17.54 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 22:18.12 |
IriX64 |
you did
it? |
| 22:20.24 |
IriX64 |
nope
:) |
| 22:28.47 |
deltazap |
the cvs
instructions on brlcad.org, are those for head? |
| 22:34.17 |
louipc |
seems to
be |
| 22:35.10 |
louipc |
sometimes it
doesn't update properly for me if I already have cvs
sources |
| 22:35.56 |
louipc |
so I just get
them all fresh again. I'm not sure why that is, I've never properly
looked into how to use CVS though :/ |
| 22:36.34 |
deltazap |
i've never
really used cvs, only messed with svn |
| 22:36.58 |
deltazap |
the build i
did at home failed :-\ |
| 22:37.05 |
louipc |
aw |
| 22:37.13 |
louipc |
I haven't
tried for awhile |
| 22:37.31 |
deltazap |
i'm not sure
what exactly went wrong, think it was during the make |
| 22:37.40 |
brlcad |
deltazap: svn
was made to be a cvs replacement.. the syntax is nearly
identical |
| 22:37.53 |
brlcad |
louipc:
probably miss "cvs update -dP" |
| 22:38.10 |
deltazap |
svn is
nice |
| 22:38.15 |
brlcad |
that checks
for new directories and prunes old/empty ones (svn does that by
default) |
| 22:38.24 |
brlcad |
svn is
nice |
| 22:38.31 |
brlcad |
we'll move to
it soon enough, just not yet ;) |
| 22:38.45 |
louipc |
cool thanks.
I thought co would automatically update o.O |
| 22:38.56 |
brlcad |
co means
checkout |
| 22:39.04 |
brlcad |
you only
checkout once |
| 22:39.07 |
deltazap |
svn
up |
| 22:39.14 |
brlcad |
from then,
you update |
| 22:39.22 |
brlcad |
cvs up
-dP |
| 22:39.38 |
brlcad |
there are
shorthands for all the commands in both cvs and svn |
| 22:39.43 |
louipc |
ah |
| 22:45.07 |
deltazap |
brlcad: i
found out that g-dxf does ok for conversion, it seems that qcad is
the one who's broken |
| 22:45.21 |
deltazap |
i found a dxf
viewer that renders the converted file just fine |
| 22:47.10 |
IriX64 |
deltazap do
you have access to acad dwgs? can you produce a dxf and turn it
into a g file? |
| 22:47.59 |
louipc |
have you seen
that? -> http://www.opendwg.org/ |
| 22:48.20 |
deltazap |
i just have a
few dxf's from qcad's examples and they will convert over to brl,
but they're a bit weird |
| 22:48.36 |
``Erik |
svn was
designed to be "pretty darn similar" to cvs... other than the minor
caveats (cvs doens't compress by default, you must do -z3 or
something.... cvs wants you to give it the -dP for new dir and
pruning...)... |
| 22:49.25 |
deltazap |
louipc: no, i
haven't, but i will look |
| 22:49.44 |
IriX64 |
louipc not a
bad idea. |
| 22:50.04 |
IriX64 |
but i was
just looking for the shuttle :) |
| 22:50.20 |
deltazap |
the only
thing that i need autocad for is to attach dimesions onto a
schematic so i can send it to a metal shop to be
fabricated |
| 22:50.44 |
IriX64 |
what are you
fabricating |
| 22:51.49 |
``Erik |
BRL-CAD kinda
focuses on engineering analysis, not production or design... so we
don't have autocad/pro-e/catia/etc type features |
| 22:53.09 |
``Erik |
oh wow, I was
cut down to two seconds on my acting debut... at least I got the
movie for free, I suppose o.O |
| 22:53.13 |
bjorkBSD |
deltazap,
what do you fabricate? |
| 22:53.13 |
deltazap |
``Erik: yeah,
i know, but it was much easier to use to make a solid model since
it's the only software i had available/knew on monday
;) |
| 22:53.30 |
IriX64 |
read its a
fully enable prototyping environment |
| 22:53.37 |
IriX64 |
enabled
to |
| 22:53.46 |
bjorkBSD |
too too
:) |
| 22:53.52 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 22:54.01 |
deltazap |
it's a set of
landing skids for model helicopters that i work on at a research
lab |
| 22:54.20 |
``Erik |
which
research lab? |
| 22:54.27 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah.
'a'. |
| 22:54.29 |
``Erik |
if you don't
mind asking |
| 22:54.30 |
``Erik |
er |
| 22:54.32 |
``Erik |
my
asking |
| 22:54.33 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 22:54.42 |
deltazap |
a university
lab |
| 22:54.44 |
bjorkBSD |
it's the
deltazapNL |
| 22:55.12 |
bjorkBSD |
what do they
need helicopters for? |
| 22:55.18 |
``Erik |
and as you
think of things that would make it easier, feel free to implement
them... :D if you need pointers on where to look, this is a good
place to ask |
| 22:55.23 |
deltazap |
http://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm |
| 22:55.43 |
deltazap |
bjorkBSD:
autonomous robots |
| 22:55.57 |
bjorkBSD |
ah |
| 22:56.16 |
deltazap |
so, we need
special landing skids to hold the computers |
| 22:56.45 |
bjorkBSD |
the skids
hold the computers? |
| 22:56.56 |
deltazap |
yeah, hold
on, uploading a picture ;) |
| 22:57.15 |
bjorkBSD |
a
computer-napping 'bot? |
| 22:58.28 |
deltazap |
http://zap.bonzoesc.net/pics/usl/skids.png |
| 22:58.58 |
bjorkBSD |
ah |
| 22:59.23 |
louipc |
neat |
| 22:59.28 |
``Erik |
heh, looks
like you put the pipe primitive through the ringer :D |
| 22:59.54 |
deltazap |
``Erik: it
was my friend |
| 23:00.06 |
IriX64 |
did you do
that with brlcad or acad or import or what |
| 23:00.14 |
deltazap |
i did that in
brlcad |
| 23:00.21 |
IriX64 |
beautifull |
| 23:00.29 |
IriX64 |
wish i was as
talented |
| 23:00.42 |
bjorkBSD |
i wish i
could wish. |
| 23:00.44 |
bjorkBSD |
*sigh* |
| 23:00.53 |
deltazap |
IriX64: i've
only had about a week of practice |
| 23:00.54 |
IriX64 |
you can but
you still walk :) |
| 23:01.57 |
bjorkBSD |
what's it
gonna say: all i got from brl-cad was this mug |
| 23:02.08 |
deltazap |
hahaha |
| 23:02.39 |
IriX64 |
"Thanks for
being lots & lots of code brlcad" ;) |
| 23:03.00 |
bjorkBSD |
to wong foo,
no doubt. |
| 23:03.15 |
IriX64 |
foui lango
actually |
| 23:03.16 |
deltazap |
but, like i
said, i need to be able to put dimesions on this to be
made |
| 23:03.36 |
louipc |
- 'your drag
alias here' |
| 23:03.37 |
IriX64 |
isn't there a
materials list? |
| 23:04.19 |
``Erik |
a few,
actually... BRL-CAD stores "GIFT" materials |
| 23:04.27 |
deltazap |
hmm? |
| 23:05.18 |
``Erik |
um, and using
that, you can actually compute things lik ethe mass of your model
(rtweight) |
| 23:05.33 |
``Erik |
might be
important for aircraft :) |
| 23:06.11 |
deltazap |
hah |
| 23:06.13 |
bjorkBSD |
weight?
trivial. it's either lighter or heavier than air :P |
| 23:06.26 |
louipc |
well you want
to make things that fly as light as you can |
| 23:06.26 |
bjorkBSD |
the matter
should be settled with a coin toss. |
| 23:06.31 |
``Erik |
heh, does the
coin fall or float? |
| 23:06.38 |
bjorkBSD |
hahah |
| 23:06.48 |
``Erik |
last time I
checked, most helicoptors and fixed wing craft are a bit heavier
than air... |
| 23:06.58 |
``Erik |
blimps and
zeppelins aren't all that common these days |
| 23:07.01 |
bjorkBSD |
little
bit. |
| 23:07.15 |
deltazap |
``Erik: they
are, that's why i'm in a rush to get these skids done
:P |
| 23:07.41 |
bjorkBSD |
there's a
movie called white diamond about a blimp and it's
maker. |
| 23:07.51 |
``Erik |
delta: so
that's all aluminum and tig welded? |
| 23:08.00 |
deltazap |
will be when
it's done |
| 23:08.07 |
``Erik |
cool |
| 23:08.26 |
deltazap |
the front
will have a camera mounted on a pan/tilt |
| 23:08.39 |
``Erik |
<-- has
done r/c planes, has done a sim for r/c helicoptors, but has only
done ground robots |
| 23:08.53 |
deltazap |
we have those
as well |
| 23:08.58 |
deltazap |
little pain
in the... |
| 23:09.13 |
``Erik |
and the
ground robot was a toy, a lego thing using a 6811 for an undergrad
ai class |
| 23:12.32 |
louipc |
hehe I played
with that lego robot kit |
| 23:14.26 |
deltazap |
``Erik: the
only feature i can think of right now that would be most excellent
is tab completion |
| 23:14.44 |
louipc |
yeah I
thought the same |
| 23:20.16 |
deltazap |
is there a
list of materials you can set? |
| 23:20.34 |
bjorkBSD |
tclsh and
wish don't have tab completion either. |
| 23:21.01 |
bjorkBSD |
maybe it's
time to make some noise about that? :D |
| 23:33.51 |
IriX64 |
actually it's
time to change the acoustical model :) |
| 23:35.13 |
IriX64 |
swing town
sounds much better in a concert hall :) |
| 23:38.30 |
deltazap |
ohhhhhh, it's
the shaders listed in the combination editor |
| 23:40.04 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/brlcad
<----- project sound |
| 23:43.31 |
IriX64 |
make clean
forgot to flush the toilet :) |
| 23:44.35 |
IriX64 |
project sound
is tied to my motherboard though. |
| 23:47.51 |
IriX64 |
deltazap, I'm
only an Electronics Engineering Technologist, what disipline are
you trying for? |
| 23:48.12 |
deltazap |
mechanical
engineering |
| 23:48.21 |
IriX64 |
how far along
are you? |
| 23:48.38 |
deltazap |
about a
summer and a semster away from graduation :) |
| 23:48.52 |
IriX64 |
haha looking
forward to it are you? |
| 23:49.34 |
deltazap |
very much,
but i don't know if i'm going to go for my masters now or just get
into open |
| 23:50.08 |
IriX64 |
masters if i
were you (take it from one who wishes he had gone on) |
| 23:50.59 |
IriX64 |
although life
experience counts too |
| 23:57.13 |
deltazap |
yeah, that's
what i'm thinking |
| 23:57.16 |
deltazap |
it's hard to
decide |
| 23:57.32 |
deltazap |
2 years of
fake student money or start working and get real dollars
:D |
| 00:10.22 |
IriX64 |
ahh a
homebody :) |
| 00:10.33 |
*** part/#brlcad tedcx
(n=root@71.237.138.185) |
| 00:12.09 |
IriX64 |
it's
too |
| 00:18.42 |
IriX64 |
57 minutes 16
seconds, but it completed :) |
| 00:19.49 |
IriX64 |
now to build
another mug, what color please ;) |
| 00:23.27 |
IriX64 |
you guys
should choose a love biscuit for your project you know, something
like project KryStal :) |
| 00:37.36 |
IriX64 |
mmm the x
framebuffer comes up but the ogl one does not |
| 00:42.29 |
IriX64 |
bwaha... it's
photon mapping havoc |
| 00:43.57 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/432024
hehehhee |
| 00:48.37 |
IriX64 |
hot oil for
you tonight cassandra :) |
| 00:48.57 |
IriX64 |
errr maybe
warm elctrons |
| 00:49.03 |
IriX64 |
electrons
too |
| 01:09.20 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com
brl-cad albumn... Unix high on windows |
| 01:11.28 |
IriX64 |
man, 5 cygwin
dll's and this thing works on my windereze boxen. |
| 01:11.41 |
IriX64 |
still need an
x serv tho |
| 01:13.32 |
brlcad |
IriX64: you
should fix those overlaps |
| 01:14.30 |
IriX64 |
heh ill put
that in a s a tutorial |
| 01:14.35 |
IriX64 |
as |
| 01:16.55 |
IriX64 |
gonna
transfer that dir to my windows xp-home machine and see if itll
come up. |
| 01:17.10 |
IriX64 |
no cygwin on
that machine |
| 01:18.01 |
IriX64 |
urf bad idea,
no xserv either |
| 01:22.05 |
IriX64 |
sean, i'm
running this thing *outside the cygwin environment, and it's
sweet. |
| 01:22.55 |
brlcad |
it would be
sweeter if you cleared up the overlaps |
| 01:23.13 |
IriX64 |
xservs are
xservs, anybody with a windows box that has an xserv on it should
be able to drop this directory in and run it. |
| 01:23.40 |
IriX64 |
overlaps
there a tool for that which doesn't work yet |
| 01:24.22 |
IriX64 |
show you a
screenshot in a sec... |
| 01:28.14 |
brlcad |
rtcheck will
report on overlaps, and visualize them if run from within
mged |
| 01:30.17 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
the brl-cad albumn have a look |
| 01:33.52 |
IriX64 |
now have a
look at the editor (Overlap tool2) |
| 01:54.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (ChangeLog NEWS TODO configure.ac
include/config_win.h): final release preparations, update to
7.10.0 |
| 02:00.19 |
*** join/#brlcad malcoholm
(n=cb6d9f45@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:01.14 |
brlcad |
hellos
malcoholm |
| 02:01.25 |
brlcad |
goodbyes
malcoholm |
| 02:01.52 |
IriX64 |
heh you
scared him |
| 02:02.22 |
IriX64 |
moody
too |
| 02:02.53 |
IriX64 |
those
muli-dfines keep my ogl from working |
| 02:03.01 |
IriX64 |
defines
too |
| 02:03.15 |
brlcad |
seriously..
get .. over .. it |
| 02:03.19 |
brlcad |
it's already
fixed in head |
| 02:03.25 |
brlcad |
and a release
is about to be made |
| 02:03.27 |
IriX64 |
heh i gripe a
lot :) |
| 02:03.32 |
brlcad |
so you can
complain if the latest doesn't work |
| 02:03.48 |
IriX64 |
seriously how
soon? |
| 02:04.01 |
brlcad |
you did just
see the commit, no? |
| 02:04.12 |
IriX64 |
didn't notice
just a sec. |
| 02:04.34 |
IriX64 |
its
there? |
| 02:04.56 |
brlcad |
what did I
just write? |
| 02:05.41 |
IriX64 |
where
sourceforge.net still lists 7.8.4 as latest |
| 02:06.05 |
brlcad |
i said
nothing about sourceforge |
| 02:06.12 |
IriX64 |
where
then? |
| 02:06.25 |
brlcad |
forget
it |
| 02:06.29 |
brlcad |
just wait for
the announcement |
| 02:06.36 |
IriX64 |
ok
ty |
| 02:50.27 |
brlcad |
source
tarball is now uploaded, binaries and e-mail announcements on their
way through tomorrow |
| 03:00.27 |
deltazap |
brlcad:
anything that i should know about building it myself? |
| 03:02.43 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
erhm.. dunno |
| 03:02.59 |
brlcad |
there are a
variety of configure options for various situations |
| 03:03.12 |
brlcad |
default
should get you somewhere.. if it doesn't, it's a build
bug |
| 03:03.46 |
brlcad |
this update
includes a lot of dependency updates too, so I'm entirely expecting
there to be some instability on some environments |
| 03:03.57 |
brlcad |
not run-time
-- compile-time instabilities |
| 03:07.23 |
*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid
Modeling || http://brlcad.org ||
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 03:49.03 |
IriX64 |
jack-104: are
you a serious user of brl-cad or like me just a novice? |
| 03:57.14 |
``Erik |
heh, moody
blues were pretty awesome |
| 04:05.45 |
IriX64 |
moody blues
music is beautiful |
| 04:57.40 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:22.38 |
IriX64 |
best hello
world program i ever wrote... and it runs without cygwin1.dll
;) |
| 05:29.56 |
clock_ |
cygwin1.dll
is evil |
| 05:30.18 |
IriX64 |
heh so is
cygcrypt.dll :) |
| 05:30.27 |
clock_ |
Cygwin
detected a version mismatch between various versions of cygwin1.dll
- now you need to search your system and delete one of
them |
| 05:30.40 |
clock_ |
very nice if
you are doing something that's supposed to work for a
layman |
| 05:30.47 |
IriX64 |
been there
done that |
| 05:30.55 |
clock_ |
like
cygwin1.dll couldn't delete itself automatically? ;-) |
| 05:31.14 |
IriX64 |
should by all
rights be back and forward compatible no? |
| 05:31.19 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 05:31.23 |
clock_ |
no it
isn't |
| 05:31.32 |
IriX64 |
i
know |
| 05:31.41 |
clock_ |
if you have
Cygwin installed and run a program that's shipped with own
cygwin.dll, it blows up |
| 05:31.59 |
IriX64 |
sadly true,
both blow up |
| 05:32.12 |
clock_ |
if you don't
ship a program with cygwin.dll then it doesn't run without cygwin
installed and installing cygwin is a major pita |
| 05:32.23 |
IriX64 |
true |
| 05:32.39 |
IriX64 |
which is why
id like -mno-cygwin to work |
| 05:32.46 |
clock_ |
;-) |
| 05:32.52 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 05:36.40 |
IriX64 |
jack-104:
what are you doing playing with that mug when people want to talk
to you :) |
| 06:21.22 |
IriX64 |
wake up
:) |
| 08:21.15 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548759e4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:18.37 |
deltazap |
ruh-roh! |
| 10:19.07 |
deltazap |
make errored
out |
| 10:19.35 |
deltazap |
" No rule to
make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'.
Stop." |
| 10:23.28 |
deltazap |
this with
"make --enable-almost-everything --enable-optimized" |
| 10:49.57 |
deltazap |
er...not
make, where's my head this morning |
| 10:50.02 |
deltazap |
<PROTECTED> |
| 11:53.53 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
bah.. |
| 11:53.58 |
brlcad |
add
--disable-jove |
| 11:54.16 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: missing
jove-tutorial from dist |
| 12:52.39 |
*** join/#brlcad daggerr
(n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 13:36.36 |
deltazap |
brlcad: hey,
that's what i'm here for: testing |
| 13:36.41 |
deltazap |
all i know is
"pres butan to go" |
| 14:10.58 |
clock_ |
press butane
to go? |
| 14:13.47 |
deltazap |
bad mac joke
:P |
| 15:23.54 |
*** join/#brlcad daggerr
(n=daggerr@h37n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 18:27.29 |
IriX64 |
deltazap....
try make creation :P |
| 18:29.24 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
:) |
| 18:37.39 |
*** join/#brlcad cad50
(n=47f87232@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:42.33 |
IriX64 |
is it easier
to maintain, splitting the configure up like that? |
| 18:43.58 |
brlcad |
our configure
is nearly four thousand lines.. not sure I'd call that "split
up" |
| 18:44.22 |
IriX64 |
was referring
to the configure that runs for tcl tk |
| 18:44.36 |
IriX64 |
stead of pre
7.10 style |
| 18:47.55 |
brlcad |
we didn't
"split it up", I just let configure run it's own -- they have their
own build setup |
| 18:48.13 |
IriX64 |
understood |
| 19:05.14 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore
brep_simple |
| 19:23.10 |
brlcad |
you're
probably still better off with --enable-all
--disable-jove |
| 19:23.22 |
IriX64 |
will try this
first |
| 19:24.14 |
IriX64 |
but im easy
lets do that. ;) |
| 19:25.15 |
IriX64 |
jove is
deprecated? |
| 19:27.04 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54877E90.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:27.57 |
brlcad |
jove has been
deprecated for a decade |
| 19:28.24 |
IriX64 |
heh thats why
no lightning bolts ? |
| 19:29.07 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 19:29.31 |
IriX64 |
heh norse
mythology , but i'm getting thor and jove mixed up :) |
| 19:29.54 |
brlcad |
and zeus
apparently |
| 19:29.57 |
IriX64 |
err jove and
zeus |
| 19:30.02 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 19:31.41 |
daggerr |
thor did make
thunder too :) |
| 19:32.12 |
IriX64 |
mjolinor
forever :) |
| 19:32.22 |
IriX64 |
did i spell
it right? |
| 19:32.41 |
daggerr |
IriX64, i
dont know :) in sweden its spelled mjölner |
| 19:32.52 |
IriX64 |
ty
:) |
| 19:33.45 |
IriX64 |
how do you do
that over the o? |
| 19:33.51 |
IriX64 |
alt
combo? |
| 19:34.22 |
daggerr |
IriX64, i
just press the key wit an ö on it :) |
| 19:34.32 |
daggerr |
i've got a
swedish keyboard :) |
| 19:35.07 |
IriX64 |
heh make
sense then |
| 19:35.11 |
IriX64 |
makes
too |
| 19:36.40 |
IriX64 |
there |
| 19:42.10 |
IriX64 |
daggerr are
you experienced at cad with brl-cad? (im here to learn, don't worry
i won't badger you with questions) |
| 19:42.42 |
daggerr |
IriX64, in
here for the same reason as you :) |
| 19:42.49 |
daggerr |
I've used it
a little bit |
| 19:42.58 |
daggerr |
but it was
almost a year ago |
| 19:42.59 |
IriX64 |
good place
for it :) |
| 19:43.35 |
daggerr |
if you have a
question the ppl in this channel seems to be eager to help so i
found it really good back then :) |
| 19:43.48 |
IriX64 |
im just
playing with the examples haven't really even got my mug
yet |
| 19:48.54 |
daggerr |
IriX64, i did
the radio then i started working on my own projects |
| 19:49.23 |
IriX64 |
I'll get to
that some day :) |
| 19:51.04 |
daggerr |
IriX64, i
think it was the first. it was in the introduction to mged or so..
i dont remember exactly :) |
| 20:00.13 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:04.19 |
IriX64 |
:) have
played with the tutorial but i'm lousy at geometry so don't know
how well i'll make out |
| 20:28.03 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:44.23 |
joevalle1field |
any meshes in
.g floating around? |
| 20:45.19 |
brlcad |
joevalle1field: how big you
need? |
| 20:45.50 |
joevalle1field |
no size in
particular |
| 20:48.22 |
``Erik |
several, I
can get you the hilux... (I haven't gotten you rf becuase of
BRL-CAD related build issues... stupid c++ pollution) |
| 20:48.45 |
``Erik |
or you can
just hop in mged and facetize something... |
| 20:49.15 |
brlcad |
yeah, that or
g-nmg is probably the fastest start |
| 20:49.41 |
brlcad |
else I have
t62 already facetized around here somewhere too as well as some
humanoid thing you'd probably recognize |
| 20:49.50 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:50.12 |
``Erik |
got a
cornelius? :D |
| 20:53.25 |
joevalle1field |
what's a
cornelius? |
| 20:54.02 |
``Erik |
demo geometry
that comes with blender |
| 20:54.19 |
``Erik |
also a dude
on planet of teh grapes |
| 20:54.25 |
joevalle1field |
:) |
| 20:55.11 |
``Erik |
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-V-TweakEx11.png |
| 20:55.15 |
``Erik |
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-IV-Warp2.jpg |
| 20:55.20 |
``Erik |
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-IV-CorneliusMap.jpg |
| 20:55.23 |
``Erik |
cornelius
:D |
| 20:56.21 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
mascot should be a moose |
| 20:56.49 |
``Erik |
get to
modelin', boy |
| 20:57.09 |
brlcad |
i already
have a scan of a moose's head, taken from ct scan data, but just
the bones |
| 20:57.46 |
joevalle1field |
do you have a
photo of a moose's outer you know |
| 20:58.19 |
joevalle1field |
bones and a
photo should be a good start |
| 20:58.40 |
brlcad |
heh, http://www.dynamore.de/models/con_models_moose.php?frame=ok |
| 20:59.24 |
``Erik |
heh, the
quality of models meatspace sim people use... heh...
*smirk* |
| 20:59.34 |
brlcad |
just what
everyone needs.. an ls-dyna moose crash dummy model |
| 20:59.46 |
joevalle1field |
cute but not
alot of mascot potential |
| 21:00.51 |
joevalle1field |
now you're
talking |
| 21:15.05 |
clock_ |
brlcad: can
you model boobs, ass and the rest of a woman with
BRL-CAD? |
| 21:16.17 |
clock_ |
brlcad:
easily? |
| 21:16.17 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64/spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 21:16.17 |
brlcad |
clock_: only
mathematically perfect ones :) |
| 21:17.17 |
brlcad |
easily |
| 21:17.18 |
``Erik |
heh, wow,
she's packin' perfect spheres! |
| 21:17.18 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
it's import |
| 21:17.18 |
IriX64 |
err http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 21:17.18 |
clock_ |
brlcad: now I
see the power of CSG |
| 21:17.18 |
clock_ |
A part of the
woman could be modeled by subtracting a suitably positioned
man |
| 21:17.24 |
bjorkBSD |
holy shit the
room's getting crowded! |
| 21:17.28 |
clock_ |
i. e. saves
work when modelling both |
| 21:17.47 |
bjorkBSD |
yhwh? |
| 21:18.03 |
brlcad |
yhwh? |
| 21:18.12 |
``Erik |
hryaw |
| 21:18.15 |
``Erik |
http://sourceforge.net/projects/makehuman |
| 21:18.52 |
bjorkBSD |
ah. i thought
he was referring to his yahweh-ish powers to makehuman. |
| 21:19.13 |
clock_ |
what shape
are boobs? |
| 21:19.18 |
``Erik |
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/index.php |
| 21:19.19 |
clock_ |
Paraboloid?
Ellipsoid? |
| 21:19.27 |
bjorkBSD |
clock_, take
a look at yours. |
| 21:19.28 |
``Erik |
you've never
seen any, before? |
| 21:19.34 |
``Erik |
s/,// |
| 21:19.43 |
bjorkBSD |
the room was
dimly lit. |
| 21:19.44 |
*** join/#brlcad kwizart
(n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:20.09 |
clock_ |
bjorkBSD: I
don't have boobs, despite the fact I am attracted to
men |
| 21:20.19 |
clock_ |
bjorkBSD: and
I am not a flat woman either |
| 21:20.21 |
bjorkBSD |
what do you
have them? |
| 21:20.26 |
bjorkBSD |
*then. |
| 21:20.31 |
bjorkBSD |
and i thought
you were a boy. n/m. |
| 21:20.39 |
clock_ |
bjorkBSD: yes
I am a boy |
| 21:20.57 |
IriX64 |
boyo |
| 21:21.08 |
bjorkBSD |
well, all
mammals have breasts. |
| 21:21.24 |
IriX64 |
nipples not
breasts |
| 21:21.36 |
bjorkBSD |
that's
right. |
| 21:21.42 |
bjorkBSD |
so that
should be easy to model. |
| 21:21.44 |
bjorkBSD |
a
'.'. |
| 21:21.49 |
bjorkBSD |
start from
that and grow it :) |
| 21:22.01 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 21:23.12 |
IriX64 |
reminds me of
that .g file ``Erik ;) |
| 21:24.35 |
bjorkBSD |
clock are you
modeling living things? |
| 21:24.54 |
clock_ |
bjorkBSD:
no |
| 21:27.50 |
brlcad |
he's modeling
cool network equipment |
| 21:27.56 |
bjorkBSD |
heheheh |
| 21:28.11 |
brlcad |
seriously,
pretty nifty model |
| 21:28.36 |
brlcad |
great example
of what can be done in a relatively short while |
| 21:28.46 |
bjorkBSD |
really? can
we see? |
| 21:29.30 |
clock_ |
http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php |
| 21:29.59 |
clock_ |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 21:31.17 |
bjorkBSD |
pretty damned
cool, clock. |
| 21:31.28 |
``Erik |
well...
"breast" is a word that's been mutating, it used to be very gender
neutral... |
| 21:31.35 |
deltazap |
see, now
you're just showing off that you can get things into autocad
:P |
| 21:31.41 |
clock_ |
bjorkBSD:
thanks |
| 21:31.50 |
brlcad |
clock_: you
had that initial scaffolding part of the model in like .. what? two
weeks? |
| 21:31.50 |
bjorkBSD |
that was
before implants, right ``Erik? ;) |
| 21:32.05 |
brlcad |
of your spare
time |
| 21:32.07 |
clock_ |
brlcad: what
is scaffolding? |
| 21:32.18 |
brlcad |
everything
but the shooter part |
| 21:32.27 |
clock_ |
I don't
know |
| 21:32.37 |
clock_ |
the modeling
was spread through longer time |
| 21:32.37 |
``Erik |
(so did a lot
of male descriptors in english... "him" and "he" used to be fairly
gender neutral) |
| 21:32.58 |
bjorkBSD |
very
cool. |
| 21:33.37 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I did
a lot of parts before that weren't part of the model |
| 21:33.43 |
clock_ |
intermixed
with parts of the model |
| 21:34.56 |
clock_ |
Now I can
test how many megaton TNT I need to bend that beam ;-) |
| 21:35.33 |
clock_ |
``Erik: you
can play a DVD which is in the drive of a friend who lives in the
neighbourhood |
| 21:36.23 |
bjorkBSD |
clock_, have
you been testing it? |
| 21:36.23 |
clock_ |
As a hightech
system it requires hightech components |
| 21:36.41 |
``Erik |
erm, at
10mbps? is that enough to push the mpeg4 data with enough left over
for ccoping with drops ? |
| 21:36.55 |
clock_ |
Smoke flues,
magnifying glasses, cat litter substrate, bathroom caulking and an
old toothbrush |
| 21:36.57 |
bjorkBSD |
i watch
videos online over less. |
| 21:37.02 |
clock_ |
bjorkBSD:
yes |
| 21:37.17 |
clock_ |
``Erik: there
are no drops. This is not a WiFi |
| 21:37.39 |
``Erik |
it's optic,
but if a bird flies through the path, or smoke particulates
interfere, or ... |
| 21:37.42 |
bjorkBSD |
a powerful
remote control huh? |
| 21:37.52 |
clock_ |
``Erik: then
the buffers catch it |
| 21:38.08 |
bjorkBSD |
if a bird
flies through it's path, it blinks and emits an ear piercing shriek
only birds can here :) |
| 21:38.11 |
clock_ |
``Erik: smoke
particulate don't interfere. the beam is 13cm thick |
| 21:38.16 |
``Erik |
it'd still
need a resent, no? |
| 21:38.21 |
``Erik |
resend,
even |
| 21:38.31 |
clock_ |
it has a BER
of 10^-9 |
| 21:38.34 |
``Erik |
I mean, if a
bird flies through, you lost bits... |
| 21:38.40 |
clock_ |
so once 125
megabytes, you need one resend |
| 21:38.52 |
clock_ |
but that is
catched by TCP and the buffers |
| 21:39.21 |
``Erik |
right, and
tcp hiccups over 10baseT are pretty nasty, I can't see optic being
any better |
| 21:39.51 |
``Erik |
if you can
outpush the stream, yeah, you can use big honkin' buffers (a second
or two of display data might be enough), I spoze :) |
| 21:39.57 |
clock_ |
``Erik: I
didn't notice any hiccups. is your 10baseT full duplex? |
| 21:40.07 |
``Erik |
when I had
it, yes |
| 21:40.23 |
``Erik |
I'm all
100baseT and 802.11b at home |
| 21:40.23 |
clock_ |
this is like
10BaseT-FD |
| 21:40.39 |
bjorkBSD |
and is it tcp
or something else clock_? |
| 21:40.45 |
clock_ |
TCP |
| 21:41.05 |
clock_ |
or whatever
you put there - it behaves like a fibre optic segment of
10BaseT-FD |
| 21:41.22 |
clock_ |
people use it
always with TCP/IP |
| 21:41.34 |
``Erik |
tcp is a
level 4, ronja is level 1... |
| 21:41.45 |
``Erik |
(and probably
2) |
| 21:42.27 |
clock_ |
NE592
differential video amplifier |
| 21:42.34 |
clock_ |
NE592 porn
video amplifier |
| 21:44.29 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 21:45.37 |
clock_ |
god save us
from some child looking into the beam when porn is being
transmitted |
| 21:45.56 |
clock_ |
it would see
porn, though not in a format that's possible to
perceive |
| 21:46.09 |
clock_ |
I wonder
whether this counts as an indecent display to minors
too |
| 21:47.54 |
clock_ |
Primary
school math: |
| 21:48.20 |
clock_ |
An epilepsy
patient gets a fit of 5 jerks a second when he sees 100Hz stobing
light |
| 21:48.35 |
clock_ |
Calculate how
many jerks a second he does when he sees a 10,000,000 Hz strobing
light |
| 21:55.46 |
bjorkBSD |
10khz? that's
a hip hop dance. |
| 21:56.39 |
bjorkBSD |
10Mhz. hmmm.
cardiac arrest follows. |
| 22:01.38 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:03.02 |
clock_ |
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/2005_Dime_Obv_Unc_P.png |
| 22:03.02 |
clock_ |
Is it the
face of god? |
| 22:03.03 |
clock_ |
"In god we
trust" |
| 22:03.48 |
deltazap |
no that's an
old man that was outside the building the other day |
| 22:04.53 |
clock_ |
Looks almost
like BRL-CAD logo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/United_States_dollar_coin%2C_reverse.jpg |
| 22:05.14 |
clock_ |
I guess "E
PLURIBUS UNUM" must mean something like "one model consists of
multiple subcomponents" |
| 22:05.52 |
deltazap |
r dime.r u
dime_body.c u face.c |
| 22:06.41 |
clock_ |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LineartPresRev.png |
| 22:07.04 |
clock_ |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:19-08-06_0359.jpg |
| 22:07.13 |
clock_ |
Now I know
where the hairstyle on the coin is from :) |
| 22:07.53 |
bjorkBSD |
the stone
ages. |
| 22:07.59 |
bjorkBSD |
when metal
was currency. |
| 22:08.10 |
bjorkBSD |
and stones
were ... just that. |
| 22:08.23 |
clock_ |
what is the
currency now? eurodance? |
| 22:08.51 |
bjorkBSD |
it's
inflationary |
| 22:08.59 |
bjorkBSD |
over time of
course. hard to pin point. |
| 22:09.23 |
bjorkBSD |
and the gov't
ALWAYS gets first dibs. |
| 22:10.40 |
clock_ |
now the
currency are credit cards with negastive balance |
| 22:12.25 |
bjorkBSD |
funny, i was
just reading a blog on improving one's credit score. |
| 22:12.28 |
bjorkBSD |
but you're
right. |
| 22:13.37 |
kwizart |
Hello! (some
quick help needed for help packaging brlcad for
Fedora...) |
| 22:13.54 |
kwizart |
where can i
have the sources code for jove ? |
| 22:14.16 |
kwizart |
The
compilation fails at jove contrib step... |
| 22:14.42 |
kwizart |
make[4]: ***
No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'.
Stop. |
| 22:15.03 |
bjorkBSD |
which
version, kwizart? |
| 22:15.11 |
kwizart |
last (of
brlcad |
| 22:15.13 |
kwizart |
) |
| 22:15.17 |
bjorkBSD |
called
what? |
| 22:15.23 |
kwizart |
7.10 |
| 22:15.24 |
kwizart |
:) |
| 22:15.33 |
bjorkBSD |
just checking
;) |
| 22:15.45 |
kwizart |
i was waiting
it ! :) |
| 22:15.58 |
deltazap |
brlcad just
said to --disable-jove since it isn't required |
| 22:16.45 |
kwizart |
well i can do
that but packaging on official repository may need to get all
option that can work buindin ! |
| 22:16.47 |
deltazap |
15:27
<@brlcad> jove has been deprecated for a decade |
| 22:17.14 |
kwizart |
well that may
solve things... |
| 22:17.48 |
kwizart |
The main
problem i have is all tcl/tk iwigets from the system aren't
found... |
| 22:18.13 |
kwizart |
but i suppose
theses packages to be malformed... |
| 22:20.52 |
IriX64 |
define....
malformed |
| 22:21.12 |
kwizart |
well
packaging bugs ! |
| 22:22.03 |
IriX64 |
does it not
detect itcl or what |
| 22:22.58 |
kwizart |
http://pastebin.ca/433633 |
| 22:23.47 |
kwizart |
only tkImg
libregex jove arent' avaible on the system... |
| 22:24.17 |
kwizart |
others are
present (with devel package) but not found |
| 22:24.42 |
kwizart |
for itcl :
itcl-3.3-0.7.RC1.fc6 |
| 22:25.16 |
IriX64 |
have you
tried a compile, im not sure the summary screen prints out
everything or not |
| 22:26.30 |
kwizart |
yes i will
give another try ( with --disable-jove-build \ ) and i will
upload build.log if you want to see... |
| 22:27.41 |
IriX64 |
ill
look |
| 22:30.57 |
kwizart |
IriX64,
http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log |
| 22:31.16 |
kwizart |
this is the
build.log before --disable-jove-build ... |
| 22:33.37 |
``Erik |
"in god wet
rust"? |
| 22:43.59 |
brlcad |
kwizart: i'll
help you in a sec if you need it :) |
| 22:44.11 |
kwizart |
brlcad,
thx |
| 22:44.28 |
kwizart |
(currently
rebuilding ) |
| 23:03.50 |
kwizart |
updating log
it fail on ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to
`XFreeDeviceList' |
| 23:05.46 |
brlcad |
eep |
| 23:06.35 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
make sense |
| 23:06.45 |
brlcad |
what is it
trying to link? |
| 23:06.53 |
brlcad |
and what's
the link line look like? |
| 23:07.54 |
kwizart |
you can see
here: http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log
(at the end of the log!) |
| 23:08.22 |
``Erik |
heh, I'd hope
it's at the end, errors generally stop the build... |
| 23:08.47 |
``Erik |
hum, slow
site |
| 23:09.46 |
``Erik |
hum, all the
warning flags lit up |
| 23:11.45 |
``Erik |
hrm, it's not
taking Xi for some reason |
| 23:12.02 |
kwizart |
``Erik, Xi
? |
| 23:12.44 |
``Erik |
um, libXi.so,
X intrinsics |
| 23:13.29 |
``Erik |
theoretically, there should be a -lXi on
the link line |
| 23:13.35 |
deltazap |
woop
woop |
| 23:14.23 |
kwizart |
``Erik, ok
added to BuildRequires |
| 23:15.35 |
deltazap |
wheee
Trace/BPT trap |
| 23:53.33 |
deltazap |
i hope i'm
not the only one running in to the bpt trap |
| 00:03.43 |
``Erik |
how when
where what huh? |
| 00:05.42 |
deltazap |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.42 |
deltazap |
<PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.46 |
deltazap |
make[2]: ***
[pkgIndex.tcl] Trace/BPT trap |
| 00:05.46 |
deltazap |
make[1]: ***
[all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 00:05.46 |
deltazap |
make: ***
[all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 00:05.59 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
what version os x is this? |
| 00:06.01 |
``Erik |
so a
hackintosh |
| 00:06.07 |
deltazap |
latest |
| 00:06.20 |
brlcad |
it's trying
to run btclsh if I had to guess |
| 00:06.29 |
deltazap |
10.4.9 |
| 00:06.38 |
brlcad |
hrm, ppc or
intel? |
| 00:06.42 |
deltazap |
ppc |
| 00:06.56 |
brlcad |
do you have
your own autotools installed? |
| 00:07.00 |
``Erik |
(do I need to
crank up one of my g4 hackintops?) |
| 00:07.04 |
brlcad |
or something
like fink in your path? |
| 00:07.22 |
deltazap |
macports,
that's it |
| 00:07.33 |
brlcad |
./autogen
--version reports what? |
| 00:07.37 |
brlcad |
er,
./autogen.sh |
| 00:08.43 |
deltazap |
Found GNU
Autoconf version 2.59 |
| 00:08.43 |
deltazap |
Found GNU
Automake version 1.6.3 |
| 00:08.53 |
deltazap |
then a
warning about libtoolize |
| 00:09.06 |
deltazap |
and GNU
Libtool 1.5 |
| 00:10.19 |
``Erik |
what's the
warning? |
| 00:12.08 |
deltazap |
libtoolize
does not appear to be available. blah blah glibtoolize was found
which means you may have a non-standard or incomplete GNU Autotools
install |
| 00:12.14 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
fine |
| 00:12.33 |
``Erik |
just means
you're using hte apple supplied libtool instead of one in macports
:/ |
| 00:13.11 |
deltazap |
isn't that
how it should be? |
| 00:13.16 |
brlcad |
which
"should" be a good thing |
| 00:13.21 |
brlcad |
as the latter
is untested |
| 00:13.24 |
``Erik |
*shrug* I use
the macports one, brlcad uses the apple one I think |
| 00:13.28 |
brlcad |
though either
"should" work too |
| 00:13.44 |
``Erik |
but I MOSTLY
use fbsd, the mac is just a pretty xserver |
| 00:14.14 |
``Erik |
so'z my mac
setup is... mimicking fbsd |
| 00:14.24 |
kwizart |
updated build
log http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log
Backtrace... |
| 00:16.17 |
brlcad |
ewwww |
| 00:17.03 |
kwizart |
also a
libtool problem (i'm running fc6 on x86_64) |
| 00:17.06 |
kwizart |
? |
| 00:17.22 |
brlcad |
no |
| 00:17.56 |
brlcad |
btclsh is
crashing on your system inside tclcad_auto_path() inside
bu_brlcad_data() inside snprintf() ... |
| 00:23.16 |
brlcad |
it's possibly
related to a bug in Tcl 8.5, there were a couple that we had to
directly patch |
| 00:24.02 |
kwizart |
my system
bundle tcl 8.6 (but not found) the system version can be forced
? |
| 00:24.21 |
kwizart |
Does this
will help ? |
| 00:26.14 |
brlcad |
er,
que? |
| 00:26.23 |
brlcad |
where you get
8.6 from? |
| 00:27.10 |
brlcad |
all the
external deps can be forced |
| 00:27.16 |
kwizart |
oups no it
was 8.4 sorry! |
| 00:29.41 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
won't work so well |
| 00:29.41 |
kwizart |
can i uses
8.4 ? or it won't be enought ? |
| 00:29.41 |
brlcad |
the crash
itself doesn't make sense though |
| 00:29.41 |
brlcad |
unless the
stack has been stomped on before we get to tclcad_auto_path() ..
which is entirely possible and would be a tcl 8.5 bug |
| 00:30.37 |
brlcad |
deltazap: for
you, there's a relatively simple workaround |
| 00:31.16 |
brlcad |
go to
src/other and each src/lib* dir and run sudo make
install |
| 00:31.47 |
brlcad |
then you
should be able to (re)complete make |
| 00:34.50 |
deltazap |
alright, i'll
have to try that here in a bit |
| 01:27.25 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@70.48.166.133) |
| 01:35.01 |
deltazap |
brlcad:
didn't work |
| 01:43.32 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
erm.. shouldn't be exactly the same? |
| 01:43.49 |
deltazap |
well, yes,
ssame BPT trap |
| 01:45.27 |
brlcad |
yet you now
have installed all the libs? |
| 01:45.48 |
deltazap |
yup, went to
each directory and did the make install |
| 01:46.12 |
deltazap |
each lib*
directory, that is |
| 01:46.25 |
IriX64 |
deltazap do a
make clean first then make and then make install |
| 01:47.04 |
deltazap |
after the
installation of the libs? |
| 01:47.13 |
brlcad |
no
no |
| 01:47.16 |
brlcad |
don't do
that |
| 01:47.16 |
IriX64 |
for the
installation of the libs |
| 01:47.19 |
``Erik |
"every time
you masturbate, god kills a kitten" |
| 01:47.29 |
IriX64 |
whatd i
say? |
| 01:47.36 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
what's the error now? |
| 01:47.56 |
brlcad |
pastebin from
the last libtool line on if you would |
| 01:55.40 |
deltazap |
bah, pastebin
is erroring for me |
| 01:58.43 |
deltazap |
alright, i'm
going to retry this |
| 01:59.52 |
brlcad |
~pastebin |
| 01:59.55 |
ibot |
i heard
pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the
channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as
well |
| 02:00.01 |
brlcad |
use one of
the others that work ;) |
| 02:00.16 |
deltazap |
oh, didn't
know that there were others |
| 02:05.57 |
deltazap |
anyways, i
did a make clean and now am making from the src/other and then each
lib* directory |
| 02:11.20 |
brlcad |
the important
trick is to install the libs before running btclsh |
| 02:11.43 |
brlcad |
alternatively, if you have a lot of disk
space, you can just add --disable-shared to the configure line and
build everything static |
| 02:19.08 |
deltazap |
since i'm not
too familiar with build systems, any reason it's building it in
that order and causing that error? |
| 02:24.44 |
IriX64 |
has to be
built in the order people submitted the code :P |
| 02:30.03 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
that's a mac-specific build/libtool issue -- libtool fails to
locate the (uninstalled) libraries that the binary it's trying to
run is using |
| 02:30.19 |
brlcad |
in this case
src/bwish/btclsh is the binary it's trying to run |
| 02:30.26 |
brlcad |
if you run it
directly, you should see the error |
| 02:30.56 |
brlcad |
if you
install those libraries before running the binary, it should
work |
| 02:31.46 |
deltazap |
ok, i
misunderstood the first time around |
| 03:41.36 |
deltazap |
http://pastebin.ca/434005 - same
song and dance |
| 03:42.04 |
deltazap |
this time, i
had done the make installs for all of the libs and then ran
make |
| 03:45.47 |
IriX64 |
Making all in
tclscripts |
| 03:45.50 |
IriX64 |
so? |
| 03:46.55 |
deltazap |
fails with
the same error |
| 03:47.12 |
IriX64 |
*what error
thgats all thats posted. |
| 03:47.39 |
deltazap |
it's at the
bottom of the pastebin link |
| 03:48.59 |
IriX64 |
_TkStatePrintProc <--- it cant find
that symbol in your tcl lib |
| 03:49.24 |
IriX64 |
thats a
function |
| 03:49.59 |
deltazap |
it should be
he tcl library bundled with the source |
| 03:50.25 |
IriX64 |
try your
system tcl use --without-tcl |
| 03:51.02 |
deltazap |
"i have a bad
feeling about this..." |
| 03:51.22 |
IriX64 |
configure
will tell you if it cant find a system tcl/tk |
| 03:52.49 |
IriX64 |
--without-tk
should be used too tho ... just to stay compatible rev
wise |
| 03:53.22 |
deltazap |
should i flag
anything else? |
| 03:57.37 |
deltazap |
well,
configure didn't say anything, just says that it's going to build
tcl and tk |
| 03:59.27 |
IriX64 |
must not have
a system tcl lib then? |
| 04:00.22 |
deltazap |
guess
not |
| 04:05.49 |
IriX64 |
you could try
hunting for that function |
| 04:06.07 |
IriX64 |
leave the _
off |
| 04:06.13 |
IriX64 |
the search
string |
| 07:28.28 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54875663.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:09.44 |
*** join/#brlcad kwizart
(n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:32.48 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: fmax was removed from
librt/g_brep.cpp |
| 11:23.17 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:24.40 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:34.11 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.177.200) |
| 12:26.27 |
kwizart |
hello! |
| 12:26.40 |
kwizart |
i'm searching
why system tcl aren't found! |
| 12:26.52 |
kwizart |
buiding
brlcad 7.10.0 |
| 12:31.53 |
clock_ |
How can I
enter a slanted cylinder? |
| 12:32.18 |
clock_ |
i. e. a
cylinder whose circular faces were moved in a shearing
fashion |
| 12:32.43 |
clock_ |
I would just
like to enter the circular faces |
| 13:13.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54875663.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:18.30 |
brlcad |
kwizart:
requires tcl 8.5+ |
| 13:18.55 |
brlcad |
clock_:
that's a tgc |
| 13:19.09 |
brlcad |
truncated
general cone |
| 13:19.40 |
kwizart |
well that's
what i have in devel... |
| 13:20.03 |
kwizart |
(Fedora
7 |
| 13:20.37 |
brlcad |
the
config.log script should say why then |
| 13:20.48 |
kwizart |
ok |
| 13:27.01 |
clock_ |
mged: ERROR:
NULL union tree pointer, file db5_comb.c, line 106 |
| 13:27.10 |
clock_ |
is that an
indication of bug in mged? |
| 13:27.18 |
clock_ |
After I
imported a (probably invalid) ascii database |
| 13:27.59 |
kwizart |
brlcad, does
the configure script is supposed to search for .la file ? (we don't
bundled them prefering pkgconfig but tcl uses an old sh
%{_libdir}/tclConfig.sh script to help to find it's
configuration...) |
| 13:28.20 |
kwizart |
pastbin the
config.log (look a little empty) |
| 13:29.53 |
kwizart |
http://www.pastebin.ca/434546 |
| 13:30.06 |
brlcad |
clock_: it's
"bad behavior", and a borderline bug -- if you can post the inputs
and it's reproducible, it would be worth seeing |
| 13:30.46 |
brlcad |
in general,
bad input readily results in bad behavior when it comes to mged
:) |
| 13:30.49 |
kwizart |
ac_cv_env_CPPFLAGS_value='-I/usr/local/include
' is bad it should be /usr/include but most header are
found |
| 13:31.06 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
want to machine generate a combination in ascii
database |
| 13:31.17 |
clock_ |
do the
newlines have a different meaning than spaces? |
| 13:31.37 |
brlcad |
kwizart:
/usr/include is a default search path, /usr/local/include is just
an additional |
| 13:31.45 |
clock_ |
put {turn.c}
comb region no tree {u {l cyl.s {1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1}}
{u {l cyl.s {0.309016994375 0.951056516295 0 0 -0.951056516295
... |
| 13:31.48 |
clock_ |
is that
wrong? |
| 13:32.30 |
kwizart |
ok* |
| 13:32.31 |
brlcad |
kwizart:
something else is wrong there.. error: /bin/sh misc/config.sub
/usr/share/config.site failed |
| 13:34.01 |
kwizart |
hum i've try
gnu make and failling a BuildRequires : gnustep-make |
| 13:34.17 |
kwizart |
does it will
help to have a gnu make ? |
| 13:34.50 |
*** join/#brlcad cad92
(n=cbda09f5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:43.51 |
brlcad |
kwizart:
shouldn't .. though I've only tested gnu and bsd make |
| 13:54.27 |
``Erik |
bsd make gets
pukey when building out of dir |
| 14:13.31 |
``Erik |
tazering that
gnome |
| 16:06.34 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
made a thread from stacked sheared cylinders |
| 16:08.50 |
``Erik |
swank |
| 16:46.34 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:04.27 |
deltazap |
it built it
built! |
| 18:05.20 |
deltazap |
but now make
benchmark and make test fails! :D |
| 18:08.45 |
brlcad |
clock_:
picture? |
| 18:08.54 |
brlcad |
deltazap: eep
:) |
| 18:09.30 |
deltazap |
just for the
fun of it, i ran automake.sh first, then configure with
almost-everything and optimize on and jove disabled |
| 18:11.19 |
deltazap |
it compiled
without the bpt trap error, but now test and benchmark
fail |
| 18:11.48 |
clock_ |
brlcad: the
only picture I had was in the framebuffer of my graphics
card |
| 18:16.07 |
clock_ |
OVERLAPb:
depth 0.00000mm\ |
| 18:16.18 |
clock_ |
If the depth
is 0.00000mm, isn't that called no overlap? |
| 18:19.35 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added attr
and make_name commands. Other minor mods. |
| 18:20.45 |
clock_ |
I wonder
whether the thread code will not be able to be included because
it's under GPL, because I don't give a signed paper of some kind,
because noone has time to include it or because it's not polished
enough or because it's not of imporance for BRL-CAD ;-) |
| 18:22.19 |
brlcad |
if it'd be
any, it'd be because of the first reason |
| 18:22.27 |
clock_ |
;-) |
| 18:22.33 |
clock_ |
or all
combined together ;-) |
| 18:22.39 |
brlcad |
and that's
just a precision printing problem on the overlap.. it must be
really tiny |
| 18:22.54 |
clock_ |
what is
precision printing? |
| 18:23.14 |
clock_ |
you mean in
the ASCII database? |
| 18:23.16 |
brlcad |
not having
time is a function of perceived importance/impact |
| 18:23.16 |
brlcad |
sort of the
same thing |
| 18:23.33 |
brlcad |
and nobody
has been asked to sign anything |
| 18:23.57 |
clock_ |
you said I
would have to sign a paper saying that I give off the rights to
BRL, didn't you? |
| 18:24.03 |
brlcad |
i mean
telling you that the overlap is 0.00000mm thick is a precision
printing issue |
| 18:24.18 |
clock_ |
aha so the
overlap actually exists? |
| 18:24.28 |
brlcad |
yep, it's
just < 0.00000mm |
| 18:24.35 |
clock_ |
well I can
give you the database which prints the overlap so you can see if
there is an overlap or not |
| 18:24.38 |
brlcad |
digit-wise |
| 18:24.49 |
clock_ |
in couple of
hours when it compiles and rsyncs |
| 18:24.52 |
brlcad |
like
0.000001mm |
| 18:26.35 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Added an entry for
dm_drawDataAxes |
| 18:28.50 |
clock_ |
Kafka-esque
GPL vs. LGPL :) |
| 18:29.23 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added a units
method. |
| 18:31.07 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Added a
drawDataAxes method. Also set the default display type to
wgl. |
| 18:32.21 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
want to see the farse when GPLv3 comes out |
| 18:32.55 |
brlcad |
farse? |
| 18:33.44 |
clock_ |
Oh sorry, a
farce |
| 18:33.52 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Update the
units command to return the current units if args is an empty
string. |
| 18:34.03 |
clock_ |
A farce is a
comedy written for the stage, or a film, which aims to entertain
the audience by means of unlikely and extravagant-yet often
possible-situations, disguise and mistaken identity, verbal humour
of varying degrees of sophistication, which may include puns and
sexual innuendo, and a fast-paced plot whose speed usually
increases even further towards the end of the play, often involving
an elaborate chase scene. Broad physical humour, |
| 18:34.40 |
deltazap |
what would
cause the test files not to be created? |
| 18:34.57 |
brlcad |
deltazap: try
running: src/rt/rt |
| 18:36.04 |
clock_ |
Funny to see
how the edge detection algorithm in rtedge reacts to the screw with
varying degrees of mental breakdown, depending on the angle of view
:) |
| 18:40.08 |
clock_ |
Saying that
multiprocessor systems are faster is like sending three family cars
to Formula One and claiming we are going to get the 1st
place |
| 18:42.28 |
deltazap |
brlcad:
funny, it responds and gives a version, but completely has the same
BPT trap error i've been getting |
| 18:45.18 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Mods to help keep
thing in sync wrt units. |
| 18:45.31 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
pastebin please |
| 18:46.49 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Set default backColor to
yellow. |
| 18:49.19 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm_obj.c axes.c): Added support
for the drawDataAxes command. |
| 18:51.54 |
deltazap |
brlcad:
http://pastebin.ca/435035 |
| 18:52.17 |
deltazap |
i had done a
make install, so that's why i'm running it from
/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 18:52.32 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/stl-g.c: Mods to open input file in
untranslated/binary mode on windows. |
| 18:54.56 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: Added declaration for
dmo_drawDataAxes_cmd(). |
| 18:56.44 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 *
10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/archer/Archer_Documentation.chm: Minor
tweaks. |
| 19:00.44 |
``Erik |
eeks, bob's
at it again |
| 19:00.51 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Made a few minor
corrections. |
| 19:34.44 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:53.25 |
clock_ |
brlcad: the
thread: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
at the bottom of the page |
| 20:00.55 |
clock_ |
or
tread? |
| 20:01.58 |
brlcad |
thread |
| 20:02.01 |
brlcad |
nifty |
| 20:02.28 |
brlcad |
would be
cooler as a sharp thread |
| 20:03.14 |
brlcad |
think you can
get that with the intersection of an offset |
| 20:04.07 |
clock_ |
what does
intersection of an offset mean? |
| 20:04.22 |
clock_ |
for an
intersection you need two things, only one is not
enough |
| 20:04.38 |
clock_ |
and offset is
not a geometrical shape, but an abstract category. You cannot
intersect with an offset. |
| 20:11.08 |
``Erik |
hrmmmmmm, no
images on that page use the height and width attributes? <IMG
WIDTH=512 HEIGHT=512 SRC="neatostuff.png"> ? |
| 20:17.27 |
IriX64 |
whats the
lowest version if tcl tahat brl-cad supports please? |
| 20:19.49 |
``Erik |
8.8a1 |
| 20:20.10 |
IriX64 |
errr ok
:) |
| 20:20.33 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 20:20.47 |
IriX64 |
been there
done that am quite insane now ;) |
| 20:21.36 |
``Erik |
we don't test
against different tcl versions, so I can't give you an answer....
it works with 8.5a5 (that's what's included), it MIGHT work ok with
8.4, in theory it SHOULD work with 8.0, but you know the
saying... |
| 20:21.49 |
``Erik |
the
difference between practice and theory is much greater in practice
than in theory |
| 20:21.51 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 20:23.19 |
IriX64 |
or rather
have the souvenire hat with my name on it :) |
| 20:23.19 |
IriX64 |
got it thanks
man |
| 20:23.21 |
``Erik |
unless you
happen to be both a tcl and automake guru, I'd strongly recommend
enabling the build of the included tcl. |
| 20:23.21 |
``Erik |
(and if it
breaks, we're just going to tell you to use the included tcl,
...) |
| 20:32.41 |
IriX64 |
proper notes
scribbled ``Erik :) |
| 20:35.25 |
``Erik |
meeeehhhhhhh,
gruntwork |
| 20:39.42 |
IriX64 |
some guy gave
me this and said i should be able to detect what version of tcl is
being used by the system, but im getting tcl returned error, should
this work, bearing in mind im just a novice at tcl http://www.pastebin.ca/435188 |
| 20:42.18 |
``Erik |
seems like an
awfully silly and error prone way to examine things O.o |
| 20:42.38 |
IriX64 |
heh wadda i
know :) |
| 20:45.21 |
``Erik |
tell ya
what |
| 20:45.23 |
``Erik |
start
mged |
| 20:45.37 |
``Erik |
in the
command window, type in "info tclversion" and hit the big button on
the right |
| 20:45.45 |
``Erik |
it prints the
version right there of what it's omfg using |
| 20:45.53 |
``Erik |
or run tclsh
and do thesame |
| 20:46.58 |
IriX64 |
8.4 but thats
the old mged |
| 20:47.13 |
IriX64 |
still futzing
around with 7-10 |
| 20:47.38 |
IriX64 |
suppose i
should build it just to say i did ;) |
| 20:48.15 |
IriX64 |
was more
liking to working on this tcl thingy though |
| 20:49.11 |
``Erik |
well, ok, if
it's build time, do this |
| 20:49.20 |
``Erik |
grep '^TCL '
Makefile |
| 20:49.23 |
IriX64 |
what do i
care if they dont have some sort of tcl they're on their own im not
gonna supply one for them |
| 20:49.33 |
``Erik |
mine says:
TCL = -L${top_builddir}/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5
-lm |
| 20:52.21 |
IriX64 |
mine says
8.4 |
| 20:52.33 |
IriX64 |
thanks for
the help ``Erik |
| 20:55.39 |
``Erik |
np |
| 21:03.35 |
IriX64 |
error prone?
mmm does that involve horizontal :) |
| 21:05.19 |
IriX64 |
errands to
run back l8r |
| 22:33.10 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:05.06 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735203.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:05.07 |
IriX64 |
blankety
blank..cflags have changed since last run ... of course, i changed
them... why not let me know up front stead of at the end
:) |
| 23:05.14 |
louipc |
hurrah |
| 23:05.24 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 23:05.47 |
b0ef |
has any
toolkit been decided on for the new interface? |
| 23:05.51 |
IriX64 |
new
connection? or just fixed :) |
| 23:06.28 |
louipc |
b0ef: I'm
curious about that too :D |
| 23:06.59 |
IriX64 |
unicos i'm
told :) |
| 23:08.25 |
louipc |
unicos? |
| 23:08.29 |
louipc |
never heard
of it |
| 23:08.43 |
IriX64 |
cray
schtuff |
| 23:09.03 |
IriX64 |
btw welcome
back |
| 23:09.26 |
louipc |
why would
they use cray stuff? |
| 23:09.28 |
louipc |
hah
thanks |
| 23:09.40 |
louipc |
I'm only
booted in a LiveCD |
| 23:09.49 |
louipc |
my disk
crashed and I lost my bootloader |
| 23:10.01 |
IriX64 |
whoa |
| 23:10.11 |
louipc |
and for some
reason the bootloader on my second disk isn't doing anything at
all |
| 23:29.49 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:41.14 |
IriX64 |
checkit
:) |
| 00:47.56 |
IriX64 |
checkit
again, that m35 is courtesy my weird little system . |
| 00:58.27 |
IriX64 |
rtedge is on
the blog, ill vanish for a while now :) |
| 01:01.00 |
IriX64 |
don't get to
excited though you still require an X-server |
| 01:08.05 |
*** join/#brlcad cad19
(n=dd048c55@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:07.42 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/437495
<--- is that compilation number your doing? or do i have a mite
here? |
| 02:10.58 |
poolio |
IriX64: is it
svn? |
| 02:11.04 |
poolio |
or cvs or
whatnot |
| 02:11.14 |
IriX64 |
source
tarball |
| 02:11.34 |
poolio |
In that case
it sounds like something on their end. if they're using some sort
of revision system it should keep track of the compiling similar to
the Linux kernel |
| 02:11.58 |
IriX64 |
the rest make
sens 4 compilations |
| 02:12.04 |
IriX64 |
sense
too |
| 02:25.19 |
IriX64 |
poolio see
-----> http://www.pastebin.ca/437519 |
| 02:28.36 |
poolio |
so the
raytracer has had a lot of work ;) |
| 02:29.08 |
IriX64 |
nothing that
would affect you, i have strangebrew for a system ;) |
| 02:30.20 |
IriX64 |
sigh im so
dense poolio you're right of course :) |
| 02:31.15 |
poolio |
I'm probably
not right, and I've no clue as to your density... :P |
| 02:31.26 |
IriX64 |
brick
:) |
| 02:31.35 |
IriX64 |
err maybe
post :) |
| 02:31.41 |
poolio |
that's not
all that dense. |
| 02:31.51 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 03:10.30 |
IriX64 |
not that
dense eh? see what I did to myself here poolio ---> http://www.pastebin.ca/437587 |
| 03:16.53 |
poolio |
meh. windows
makes everything look ugly. i'm off to sleep, gnite. |
| 06:07.17 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:32.11 |
*** join/#brlcad daggerr
(n=daggerr@c83-254-82-9.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 08:21.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54874a60.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:18.01 |
*** join/#brlcad cad81
(n=cab45306@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:21.18 |
*** part/#brlcad cad81
(n=cab45306@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:16.24 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.179.0) |
| 12:34.47 |
*** join/#brlcad kwizart
(n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:50.05 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 14:22.47 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:21.52 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS README configure.ac
include/config_win.h): bump to 7.10.1 |
| 15:45.10 |
*** join/#brlcad rafa_
(n=rafa@200.180.169.105) |
| 15:45.46 |
rafa_ |
i install
brlcad in ubuntu |
| 15:45.50 |
rafa_ |
and
now? |
| 15:45.55 |
rafa_ |
how
start? |
| 15:50.22 |
rafa_ |
please |
| 15:51.38 |
clock_ |
rafa_:
download http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja.g |
| 15:51.41 |
clock_ |
rafa_: run
mged ronja.g |
| 15:51.48 |
clock_ |
type B
ronja |
| 15:51.56 |
clock_ |
then go to
File -> Raytrace and raytrace it |
| 15:52.56 |
rafa_ |
? |
| 15:53.33 |
clock_ |
. |
| 15:53.33 |
*** join/#brlcad sisplau
(n=gn-eleaz@163.Red-81-37-105.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:53.34 |
rafa_ |
run in
terminal |
| 15:53.35 |
rafa_ |
$
meged? |
| 15:54.22 |
sisplau |
hi |
| 15:54.28 |
rafa_ |
hi |
| 15:54.40 |
sisplau |
spanish? |
| 15:54.48 |
rafa_ |
yes |
| 15:54.51 |
sisplau |
hola |
| 15:54.52 |
rafa_ |
como
vaz |
| 15:54.56 |
rafa_ |
hola |
| 15:54.59 |
sisplau |
he instalado
este programa |
| 15:55.02 |
sisplau |
pero no se
ejecutarlo |
| 15:55.31 |
sisplau |
no crea
icono |
| 15:55.44 |
sisplau |
y no se que
comando debo poner en la consola |
| 15:56.00 |
rafa_ |
amigo joi
tambem |
| 15:56.02 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: |
| 15:56.02 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
Finally isolated the problem where certain operations in the mged
command window |
| 15:56.02 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: will
result in the input prompt getting in front of 'mged>' prompt.
the problem |
| 15:56.02 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
turns out to be various default scrolling text widget bindings that
modify the |
| 15:56.02 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
cursor input position. there's a whole list of such bindings, but
without |
| 15:56.02 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
testing this update just lists them and overrides the two that were
obvious |
| 15:56.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
(page up/down). |
| 15:56.41 |
rafa_ |
how start
brlcad? |
| 15:56.45 |
clock_ |
brlcad: the
website is confusiong. According to "latest news", the latest
version is 7.8.0 which is long time not true |
| 15:56.49 |
clock_ |
rafa_:
mged |
| 15:56.54 |
rafa_ |
no |
| 15:57.26 |
rafa_ |
terminal
returns: |
| 15:57.29 |
rafa_ |
comand not
found |
| 15:57.33 |
sisplau |
http://www.brlcad.org/overview.html
<- overview |
| 15:58.03 |
rafa_ |
in my sisten
no mged |
| 15:58.12 |
sisplau |
system |
| 15:58.23 |
rafa_ |
i install
package off SourceForge |
| 15:58.37 |
clock_ |
sisters of
mercy |
| 15:58.41 |
rafa_ |
brlcad-7.8.4.deb |
| 15:59.10 |
rafa_ |
sistem of
mercy? |
| 15:59.20 |
rafa_ |
sister |
| 15:59.21 |
rafa_ |
? |
| 15:59.24 |
rafa_ |
watt |
| 15:59.28 |
``Erik |
you probably
have to add a special path |
| 15:59.41 |
``Erik |
like, if
you're using bash, export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:00.00 |
sisplau |
how I can run
the program? |
| 16:00.05 |
``Erik |
then you can
do something like "mged
/usr/brlcad/share/7.10.0/db/moss.g" |
| 16:00.33 |
rafa_ |
brlcad as
instaled in my sistem in : |
| 16:00.42 |
rafa_ |
/usr/brlcad |
| 16:01.03 |
``Erik |
ok, then
you'll have a /usr/brlcad/bin directory with something around
400ish programs... the one you probably want first is
mged |
| 16:01.29 |
rafa_ |
mged no in
bin |
| 16:01.37 |
rafa_ |
and no in my
systen |
| 16:01.47 |
``Erik |
um, then ya
don't have BRL-CAD installed? :) |
| 16:02.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS BUGS): |
| 16:02.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
Finally isolated the problem where certain operations in the mged
command window |
| 16:02.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: will
result in the input prompt getting in front of 'mged>' prompt.
the problem |
| 16:02.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
turns out to be various default scrolling text widget bindings that
modify the |
| 16:02.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
cursor input position, including page up/down. fix is simple, just
do the same |
| 16:02.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
binding operation but don't move the cursor. |
| 16:02.34 |
rafa_ |
i intaled
package off sourceforge |
| 16:02.34 |
rafa_ |
package.deb |
| 16:02.34 |
rafa_ |
brlcad-7.8.4.deb |
| 16:02.54 |
clock_ |
rafa_: then
the .deb package is probably crap |
| 16:02.54 |
sisplau |
$
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged works |
| 16:03.10 |
clock_ |
rafa_:
uninstall it and install the BRL-CAD from sources |
| 16:03.10 |
sisplau |
rafa_ abres
terminal y pones ~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 16:03.17 |
clock_ |
rafa_: and
complain to the Debian developers that they made crap |
| 16:03.28 |
``Erik |
you should
have /usr/brlcad/bin in your path before running mged |
| 16:03.30 |
rafa_ |
amigo
sisplau: |
| 16:03.38 |
rafa_ |
no has este
diretorio |
| 16:03.43 |
``Erik |
mged will
attempt to run binaries to do things, and those need to be in the
path |
| 16:03.50 |
sisplau |
rafa_ abres
terminal y pones /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 16:04.03 |
clock_ |
``Erik:
Debian has to produce a .deb file that works after being
installed |
| 16:04.13 |
``Erik |
no shit,
clock? :D |
| 16:04.44 |
clock_ |
A typical
example when an unauthorized person between the user and the
developer tries to tamper with a readily packaged
technology |
| 16:04.54 |
rafa_ |
please one
moment |
| 16:04.59 |
clock_ |
In this cause
a Debian developer tampered |
| 16:05.01 |
``Erik |
of course,
debian may have chosen another place to put it... /usr/brlcad is
just the default... my fbsd packages put it in /usr/local/brlcad
with an mged.sh in /usr/local/bin that pedro put
together |
| 16:07.33 |
clock_ |
``Erik: then
the package after installing has to change the system PATH and make
sure it's in effect |
| 16:07.33 |
clock_ |
``Erik: just
those Debian incompetents didn't do their homework
properly |
| 16:07.33 |
``Erik |
heh, :) *pets
fbsd* |
| 16:07.33 |
rafa_ |
sorry meged
found in my system |
| 16:07.34 |
rafa_ |
:) |
| 16:07.34 |
rafa_ |
but terminal
returns it: |
| 16:07.34 |
clock_ |
rafa_: but
you don't want meged but mged |
| 16:07.34 |
docelic |
debian
developer "tampered" to make the package adhere to filesystem
policy |
| 16:07.34 |
rafa_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.34 |
clock_ |
but it
stopped adhering to the functionality policy ;-) |
| 16:07.34 |
clock_ |
rafa_: Debian
has the libraries screwed up |
| 16:07.34 |
sisplau |
rafa_
ubuntu? |
| 16:07.34 |
clock_ |
rafa_: tell
them they should fix it |
| 16:07.34 |
rafa_ |
i use
ubuntu |
| 16:07.35 |
``Erik |
compiling
from source should "just work" |
| 16:07.42 |
clock_ |
rafa_: ubuntu
is a double layer of tampering |
| 16:07.43 |
clock_ |
first the
Debian incompetents tamper and then the Ubuntu ones |
| 16:07.49 |
``Erik |
just have to
wait the 10 minutes for a compile and install :) |
| 16:07.53 |
clock_ |
a resul -
program which doesn't even link, let alone run |
| 16:08.01 |
rafa_ |
ok |
| 16:08.05 |
``Erik |
use the
source, luke! |
| 16:08.05 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 16:08.18 |
rafa_ |
i download
sourc |
| 16:08.21 |
sisplau |
i use ubuntu
and it works |
| 16:08.27 |
clock_ |
rafa_: don't
use unauthorized products of third parties and use the official
product - BRL-CAD sources |
| 16:08.37 |
rafa_ |
ok |
| 16:08.44 |
rafa_ |
amigo
sisplau |
| 16:08.51 |
clock_ |
sisplau:
looks like Ubuntu sometimes works and sometimes not |
| 16:08.53 |
rafa_ |
qual é a
versao que usas |
| 16:09.07 |
``Erik |
hm, the bsd,
irix, osX and solaris binaries are pretty 'official', in that
they're compiled and packaged by either brlcad or
myself |
| 16:09.11 |
sisplau |
i use ubuntu,
debian, suse, fedora.... |
| 16:09.17 |
clock_ |
I came to a
friend and he used "locate" on his Ubuntu and it persistently
segfaulted :) |
| 16:09.35 |
clock_ |
Ubuntu
1.2.3.4 Ultimately Unusable |
| 16:09.39 |
sisplau |
apt-get is
the best |
| 16:09.45 |
``Erik |
redhat
enterprise workstation 4 or openbsd are also ones we can
effectively help out on |
| 16:09.57 |
``Erik |
or the sgi
altix suse |
| 16:10.18 |
``Erik |
which obsd
are you using? I have a 3.8 and a 4.0 |
| 16:10.27 |
clock_ |
4.0 |
| 16:10.41 |
clock_ |
Now I am
gonna compile 7.10.0 |
| 16:10.43 |
``Erik |
you should
make a port :D |
| 16:11.02 |
``Erik |
I would, but
theo's too much of a cockbite |
| 16:11.17 |
sisplau |
clock_ what
distribution you prefer? |
| 16:11.18 |
clock_ |
For a port I
need unstable system and that's impossible to switch back to
stable |
| 16:11.19 |
rafa_ |
how
compile? |
| 16:11.24 |
rafa_ |
./configure |
| 16:11.26 |
rafa_ |
make |
| 16:11.27 |
rafa_ |
and |
| 16:11.28 |
clock_ |
and I have
only one machine so they have bad luck with this port |
| 16:11.32 |
rafa_ |
make
install? |
| 16:11.35 |
clock_ |
rafa_: make
install? |
| 16:11.45 |
clock_ |
elapsed
configuration blah blah |
| 16:11.46 |
clock_ |
make |
| 16:12.07 |
rafa_ |
and make
install |
| 16:12.14 |
rafa_ |
or
no? |
| 16:12.25 |
clock_ |
rafa_: yes
make install |
| 16:12.26 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: clarify the distribution channels that
need to be announced during release |
| 16:12.34 |
clock_ |
;-) |
| 16:12.40 |
rafa_ |
./configure
prefix? |
| 16:12.47 |
deltazap |
but, but,
opennurbs....i know i make install'ed you! |
| 16:12.51 |
clock_ |
I just type
./configure make make install |
| 16:12.58 |
rafa_ |
ok |
| 16:13.20 |
clock_ |
I want to see
the button brl-cad added on my request |
| 16:13.45 |
clock_ |
brl-cad, as
opposed to unnamed projects like Linux or OpenBSD, reacts with
improvement and bugfixes, instead of calling people idiots and
trolls |
| 16:13.47 |
rafa_ |
brlcad type
solid works and inventor? |
| 16:13.55 |
rafa_ |
is
easy? |
| 16:14.58 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 16:14.58 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 16:15.15 |
rafa_ |
how find on
manual? |
| 16:15.19 |
rafa_ |
tutorial? |
| 16:15.22 |
rafa_ |
etc... |
| 16:15.31 |
``Erik |
http://brlcad.og |
| 16:15.31 |
``Erik |
org |
| 16:15.47 |
rafa_ |
amigo
espanhol: |
| 16:15.52 |
rafa_ |
etas
ai? |
| 16:15.59 |
rafa_ |
estas
ai? |
| 16:16.23 |
clock_ |
I am sure
solid works have a special button to create thread |
| 16:16.38 |
clock_ |
where you can
select if you want withworth or Metric |
| 16:17.24 |
``Erik |
clock: write
up a tcl function or a procdb and chuck it in the patches section
and we'll have that, too :D |
| 16:17.24 |
sisplau |
si |
| 16:17.34 |
clock_ |
and if you
want left or right |
| 16:17.34 |
clock_ |
and which
manufacturer manufactured the bolt |
| 16:17.34 |
sisplau |
you
brazilian? |
| 16:17.35 |
clock_ |
in which
year |
| 16:17.36 |
clock_ |
and the
circumference of the manufacturer's grandfather penis |
| 16:17.40 |
clock_ |
and it stamps
you nice 5.8 or 8.8 on the head |
| 16:17.42 |
sisplau |
where do you
come from? |
| 16:17.46 |
rafa_ |
sim eu sou
brasileiro |
| 16:17.56 |
sisplau |
samba! |
| 16:17.59 |
sisplau |
hahaha |
| 16:18.00 |
clock_ |
Kaoma
Lambada! |
| 16:18.19 |
rafa_ |
no |
| 16:18.19 |
clock_ |
macarena
too? |
| 16:18.19 |
rafa_ |
tche
music!!!! |
| 16:18.19 |
sisplau |
hahaha |
| 16:18.20 |
deltazap |
clock_: girls
aren't manufacturers silly! |
| 16:18.22 |
rafa_ |
de ondes
es |
| 16:18.25 |
sisplau |
spain |
| 16:18.29 |
sisplau |
barcelona |
| 16:18.36 |
clock_ |
Los Lobotomos
- Macabrena |
| 16:18.37 |
deltazap |
wait, i read
that wrong |
| 16:18.40 |
``Erik |
deltazap:
they're factories? :D |
| 16:18.47 |
rafa_ |
Porto
Alegre |
| 16:18.52 |
rafa_ |
Rio Grande do
Sul |
| 16:19.32 |
sisplau |
um prazer meu
amigo |
| 16:19.43 |
sisplau |
do you like
futbol? |
| 16:19.45 |
rafa_ |
ok |
| 16:19.47 |
rafa_ |
yes |
| 16:19.50 |
sisplau |
hahah |
| 16:19.54 |
clock_ |
everyone
lying in the sand or surfing? |
| 16:19.57 |
sisplau |
ronaldinho
the best |
| 16:19.58 |
rafa_ |
GREMIO!!!!!!! |
| 16:20.10 |
rafa_ |
sim ele era
do GREMIO |
| 16:20.18 |
sisplau |
ok i
konw |
| 16:20.25 |
sisplau |
*know |
| 16:20.44 |
rafa_ |
friend
sispalu do you use BrlCAD |
| 16:20.52 |
rafa_ |
he is hard to
know? |
| 16:21.01 |
clock_ |
BRL-CAD
doesn't it mean BRaziL-CAD? |
| 16:21.07 |
sisplau |
rafa run in
the terminal window: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 16:21.16 |
rafa_ |
no
ok |
| 16:21.22 |
rafa_ |
i download
the source |
| 16:21.28 |
sisplau |
in my
computer it works |
| 16:21.40 |
rafa_ |
but my
question is : |
| 16:21.50 |
rafa_ |
BrlCAD is
easy to use? |
| 16:22.09 |
rafa_ |
is type off
Inventor |
| 16:22.16 |
rafa_ |
or
SolidWorks? |
| 16:22.20 |
rafa_ |
or
Varicad? |
| 16:22.25 |
sisplau |
i don't
know |
| 16:22.29 |
sisplau |
i'm
novice |
| 16:22.39 |
rafa_ |
is good
software? |
| 16:22.46 |
sisplau |
i only want
run the benchmark option |
| 16:23.16 |
sisplau |
is a good
option for CAD in linux :/ |
| 16:23.19 |
sisplau |
i
think |
| 16:23.31 |
rafa_ |
please one
moment please |
| 16:23.36 |
rafa_ |
i go
eat |
| 16:23.38 |
sisplau |
rblender |
| 16:23.41 |
sisplau |
blender |
| 16:23.41 |
rafa_ |
ok?
:) |
| 16:23.53 |
sisplau |
eat?
comer? |
| 16:23.57 |
sisplau |
hahaha |
| 16:23.58 |
rafa_ |
sim |
| 16:24.02 |
``Erik |
BRL stands
for "Ballistics Research Laboratory" |
| 16:24.17 |
``Erik |
it's a US
product dating back to '79... |
| 16:24.47 |
sisplau |
I read it in
wikipedia |
| 16:25.56 |
clock_ |
It's US Army
and M1A1 Abrams was made in it |
| 16:26.05 |
``Erik |
(I'd smack
clock for misinformation, but I've done it myself, claiming mged
was "Monstrosity of a Gui EDitor" O:-) ) |
| 16:26.29 |
clock_ |
``Erik: I
misasked, didn't misinform :) |
| 16:26.34 |
deltazap |
so, when do i
get a binary for osx? :-\ |
| 16:26.52 |
clock_ |
G. I. Joe U.
S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory |
| 16:27.04 |
``Erik |
no, the m1a1
was built on drafting paper with pencils, but in pieces... the
first time someone saw the thing assembled was using the seed that
became BRL-CAD |
| 16:27.05 |
clock_ |
if it doesn't
work, you do some pushups and it's fine :) |
| 16:27.27 |
``Erik |
deltazap:
sf.net/projects/brlcad and click "download"... it's old, 7.6.6
... |
| 16:27.39 |
deltazap |
i know, i've
been using that version |
| 16:27.51 |
deltazap |
but i cannot
for the life of me get 7.10 to compile |
| 16:27.55 |
``Erik |
maybe brlcad
will make another pkg/dmg for 7.10 |
| 16:27.57 |
clock_ |
I guess
people who are into army fetish must love brl-cad :) |
| 16:28.00 |
``Erik |
what's it
do? |
| 16:28.06 |
deltazap |
i'm wishing
for that |
| 16:29.14 |
deltazap |
it's still
the same tcl error i've been getting |
| 16:29.25 |
clock_ |
rafa_:
brl-cad is quite easy to use, it's good for ordinary work like
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:29.43 |
clock_ |
rafa_: I
don't know how's solid works etc. maybe they can show you
dimensions in the picture which brl-cad cannot |
| 16:29.45 |
``Erik |
I haven't
gotten it to work with native tcl/tk, so my configure line is
something like ./configure --enable-tcl-build
--enable-tk-build |
| 16:29.50 |
deltazap |
i'm trying
--enable-only-benchmark so that i can compile and test things right
now |
| 16:29.51 |
clock_ |
and brl-cad
also cannot make 2d blueprints from the 3d |
| 16:31.31 |
deltazap |
``Erik: i've
tried that, but it's not doing anything. ./configure says that
it's going to compile the version included |
| 16:32.21 |
``Erik |
deltazap: can
you paste the errors to a pastebin (like paste.lisp.org or
rafb.net/paste ?) |
| 16:32.32 |
deltazap |
yeah, i
will |
| 16:39.15 |
deltazap |
of course you
say that after i started another attempt ;) |
| 16:41.54 |
``Erik |
well, when ya
get around to it *shrug* |
| 16:42.17 |
``Erik |
I'm building,
too, so *shrug* these old g5's, while smoking, aren't quite the 8
core opterons I like working on |
| 16:42.20 |
clock_ |
Should I
remodel all the Ronja models with threaded fasteners? |
| 16:42.38 |
deltazap |
clock_:
there's really no reason to |
| 16:42.50 |
sisplau |
ciao |
| 16:42.53 |
*** part/#brlcad sisplau
(n=gn-eleaz@163.Red-81-37-105.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:43.38 |
``Erik |
you're not
doing stress/strain/sheer analysis on 'em, right? is all that
effort worth the visual effect? |
| 16:45.25 |
deltazap |
http://rafb.net/p/d36N3F16.html
-- my ./configure, so that you can see exactly what the system is
going to try to build |
| 16:47.01 |
clock_ |
``Erik: only
for visual effect |
| 16:47.14 |
deltazap |
so, it is
going to build tcl and tk |
| 16:47.17 |
clock_ |
``Erik: is
stress strain shear analysis possible with brl-cad? |
| 16:47.36 |
``Erik |
not
directly |
| 16:47.37 |
clock_ |
ouch brl-cad
didn't compile :) |
| 16:47.41 |
clock_ |
do I need
some nurbs-something? |
| 16:48.14 |
``Erik |
openNURBS is
being worked on to support the brep primitive... at the moment, you
should probably turn it off |
| 16:50.47 |
deltazap |
i'm going to
try that then |
| 16:52.39 |
``Erik |
yeah, the
c/c++ issue just hit me on obsd, heh |
| 16:53.43 |
``Erik |
(one
workaround is to "export CC=g++" before configure |
| 16:53.43 |
``Erik |
) |
| 16:53.56 |
deltazap |
what's the
./configure flag for opennurbs? |
| 16:54.38 |
``Erik |
./configure
--help | grep -i nurb |
| 17:03.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: beginnings of image
mgmt |
| 17:05.17 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: beginnings of a crude
image handling function set. Will be able to save png and others
some day... |
| 17:05.51 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add image.c to
the library |
| 17:08.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: First victim of the
libu image stuff. |
| 17:15.57 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:15.57 |
clock_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:16.08 |
clock_ |
1) How do I
disable it when only enable flag is supplied? |
| 17:16.17 |
clock_ |
2) Why was it
autodetected as on, when not present? |
| 17:17.06 |
``Erik |
--disable-opennurbs-build (anything that
says --enable- has a free --disable, and anything with a --with-
has a --without-), and that's how it was set up *shrgu* |
| 17:20.18 |
*** join/#brlcad rafa_
(n=rafa@200.180.169.105) |
| 17:21.38 |
rafa_ |
please |
| 17:21.59 |
rafa_ |
where i find
files for brlcad |
| 17:22.01 |
rafa_ |
? |
| 17:22.15 |
rafa_ |
i want open
some for i see |
| 17:22.28 |
clock_ |
rafa_:
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja.g |
| 17:22.39 |
rafa_ |
ok |
| 17:22.55 |
rafa_ |
site ronja
for brlcad? |
| 17:23.19 |
``Erik |
also; if you
installed it in /usr/brlcad/, go into
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/<version>/db and there'll be a bunch
of .g files |
| 17:27.20 |
rafa_ |
CloCk: No
open |
| 17:27.25 |
rafa_ |
i dont
see |
| 17:30.20 |
rafa_ |
Open file but
no show in window |
| 17:30.34 |
rafa_ |
how open
file? |
| 17:30.43 |
rafa_ |
File-open? |
| 17:30.56 |
``Erik |
yeah, once
you open it, run "tops" in the command window |
| 17:31.06 |
``Erik |
to see what
top level objects are in the file |
| 17:31.13 |
``Erik |
pick one, and
do "e object" |
| 17:31.30 |
``Erik |
so if you
opened m35.g, you'll see all.g in the "tops" command, and then you
can do "e all.g" to see the scene |
| 17:31.53 |
rafa_ |
please |
| 17:32.00 |
rafa_ |
i open
mged |
| 17:32.03 |
rafa_ |
ok? |
| 17:32.07 |
rafa_ |
and
now? |
| 17:32.22 |
rafa_ |
press
File |
| 17:32.28 |
rafa_ |
i press
Open |
| 17:32.30 |
rafa_ |
Ok? |
| 17:32.34 |
``Erik |
this'd be a
good time for you to head to http://brlcad.org/ and get 'principles of
effective modeling (#3 in the documentation list). it has step by
step instructions with screenshots |
| 17:32.49 |
rafa_ |
friend |
| 17:33.09 |
rafa_ |
i only know
see one file open in cad |
| 17:35.37 |
``Erik |
actually,
intro to mged would be better |
| 17:35.43 |
``Erik |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 17:45.55 |
brlcad |
rafa_: what
version are you using? |
| 17:46.04 |
rafa_ |
7.8.0 |
| 17:46.29 |
``Erik |
moin,
brlcad |
| 17:47.45 |
brlcad |
howdy |
| 17:48.15 |
deltazap |
hmm, that
build actually didn't throw any errors during the compile, but make
benchmark fails |
| 17:48.31 |
brlcad |
rafa_: on the
"mged>" promt, you should be able to type: opendb
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/havoc.g |
| 17:48.40 |
brlcad |
then "e
havoc" |
| 17:49.07 |
brlcad |
that's just a
quick example.. there are many other .g files in
share/brlcad/7.8.0/db |
| 17:50.02 |
rafa_ |
ok |
| 17:50.11 |
rafa_ |
but i dont
see in windos |
| 17:50.19 |
rafa_ |
no see the
draw load |
| 17:50.42 |
deltazap |
http://rafb.net/p/5X9LMG18.html
-- any idea what could be causing the no file error? |
| 17:50.53 |
rafa_ |
mged prompt
returns it: |
| 17:50.53 |
brlcad |
rafa_: you're
using Windows? |
| 17:51.01 |
rafa_ |
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/havoc.g:
READ ONLY |
| 17:51.01 |
rafa_ |
BRL-GSI Paris
Air Show Soviet HAVOC Helicopter (units=cm) |
| 17:51.07 |
brlcad |
ahh, that's
good |
| 17:51.09 |
rafa_ |
no i am in
ubuntu |
| 17:51.11 |
brlcad |
then "e
havoc" |
| 17:51.15 |
rafa_ |
? |
| 17:51.20 |
brlcad |
type: e
havoc |
| 17:51.20 |
``Erik |
deltazap:
sure, it can't find the pix files? :D |
| 17:51.44 |
brlcad |
deltazap: rt
is crashing/failing |
| 17:51.45 |
rafa_ |
write in
prompt e havoc? |
| 17:51.46 |
deltazap |
but it
should, they're all there? |
| 17:51.54 |
brlcad |
deltazap: run
src/rt/rt |
| 17:52.02 |
brlcad |
does it
display usage or a failure |
| 17:52.08 |
brlcad |
rafa_:
si |
| 17:52.39 |
deltazap |
displays
usage |
| 17:52.48 |
rafa_ |
no
see |
| 17:52.49 |
``Erik |
deltazap: you
might have to set PIXDIR or something |
| 17:52.50 |
deltazap |
but i bet
i'll fail when i run it |
| 17:53.08 |
rafa_ |
window is
black |
| 17:53.17 |
brlcad |
rafa_: type
"who" |
| 17:53.20 |
brlcad |
what does it
say? |
| 17:53.27 |
brlcad |
havoc? |
| 17:53.54 |
rafa_ |
yes |
| 17:54.10 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 17:54.17 |
brlcad |
type: rt
-F/dev/Xl |
| 17:54.34 |
brlcad |
should pop
open a window and show a helicopter |
| 17:55.01 |
rafa_ |
small |
| 17:55.05 |
rafa_ |
but
yes |
| 17:55.05 |
deltazap |
i'm not
actually in front of the machine i just compiled it on
:X |
| 17:55.37 |
rafa_ |
go a compiled
the source? |
| 17:56.16 |
deltazap |
http://rafb.net/p/y3JgjP62.html |
| 17:57.14 |
rafa_ |
? |
| 17:58.27 |
deltazap |
paste of rt
failing |
| 18:06.11 |
``Erik |
otool -L
/Users/zap/Desktop/brlcad/src/rt/.libs/lt-rt |
| 18:06.22 |
``Erik |
? |
| 18:07.08 |
``Erik |
(it's telling
you it can't find library symbols from tcl) |
| 18:07.13 |
rafa_ |
please one
moment |
| 18:07.23 |
rafa_ |
i download
the source |
| 18:07.43 |
rafa_ |
and i go to
compile it |
| 18:08.00 |
rafa_ |
brlcad need
Nvdia or Ati |
| 18:08.02 |
rafa_ |
? |
| 18:09.47 |
rafa_ |
my video
adpter is intel and sis |
| 18:09.52 |
rafa_ |
(onboard) |
| 18:10.05 |
rafa_ |
Run BrlCad
with it? |
| 18:10.29 |
joevalle1field |
sure |
| 18:10.38 |
``Erik |
intel and sis
make very different video chipsets, but BRL-CAD should run with
either provided your GL stuff set up right or you use the straight
X driver |
| 18:13.08 |
rafa_ |
run? |
| 18:13.16 |
rafa_ |
with
sis? |
| 18:16.03 |
joevalle1field |
yes |
| 18:16.30 |
joevalle1field |
onboard video
should work fine |
| 18:18.36 |
rafa_ |
i am compiled
BrlCad |
| 18:18.41 |
rafa_ |
please more
one time |
| 18:20.53 |
joevalle1field |
rafa_: it's
compiled? |
| 18:21.01 |
rafa_ |
no |
| 18:21.08 |
rafa_ |
more one
time |
| 18:21.37 |
joevalle1field |
s/more one
time/one moment please/ |
| 18:22.33 |
``Erik |
ah, from
pennsylvania, no wonder it's in the same healthiness pantheon as
'scrapple' |
| 18:22.58 |
joevalle1field |
mmmm, bacon
dressing |
| 18:24.50 |
``Erik |
<--
watching his intake, trying to keep his girlish figure
O.o |
| 18:43.38 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:55.31 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: move the bif close
from view_clewnup to view_end (so it actually gets called
*cough*) |
| 18:56.00 |
IriX64 |
clewnup
:) |
| 18:58.38 |
``Erik |
yes.
clewnup. |
| 18:58.57 |
IriX64 |
your pardon
thought it was cleanup |
| 18:59.24 |
``Erik |
it's like
cleanup, but when the fingers and brain are getting
tired |
| 18:59.30 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: |
| 18:59.30 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: use
the data element of the bif to buffer up instead of assuming a
streamed |
| 18:59.30 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
write (makes write-line void of side effects, thus re-entrant,
removes the |
| 18:59.30 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
seek, and will allow non-streaming formats like png (at the cost of
memory)) |
| 19:49.34 |
deltazap |
``Erik: i
understand that it can't find the tcl library symbols, but i don't
know how to resolve this issue |
| 19:50.26 |
``Erik |
otool -L
<binary> is the mac equivelant of ldd |
| 19:50.39 |
``Erik |
it'll say
what libs are being linked in, if there's no tcl, or the wrong tcl,
it'll show t hat |
| 19:51.56 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.lice.com/photos/brl-cad
<------ i want mine to do this ;) |
| 19:54.48 |
IriX64 |
s/live/lice |
| 19:54.53 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 19:55.58 |
``Erik |
you want
BRL-CAD to remove lice? uh, we're good, but not THAT good,
yo |
| 19:56.13 |
IriX64 |
heh apply
liberally... |
| 19:58.11 |
IriX64 |
``Erik that
was booted from the winderez environment. |
| 19:58.43 |
IriX64 |
gotta find a
decent windows xserver tho |
| 20:02.53 |
``Erik |
um, cygwin
comes with one |
| 20:03.01 |
``Erik |
or you can
drop some $'s and get something like hummingbird |
| 20:03.11 |
``Erik |
though the
wgl stuff SHOULD work |
| 20:03.45 |
IriX64 |
cygwin works,
but id like to test compatibility |
| 20:03.58 |
IriX64 |
downloading
xming from sourceforge |
| 20:06.39 |
``Erik |
dangit |
| 20:06.41 |
``Erik |
libpng error:
Call to NULL write function |
| 20:06.41 |
``Erik |
Ohs
Noes! |
| 20:08.20 |
``Erik |
what, xming?
*shrug* |
| 20:08.28 |
IriX64 |
brlcad on
xming |
| 20:09.09 |
IriX64 |
dont like the
font but... |
| 20:12.44 |
IriX64 |
try the blog
now |
| 20:23.56 |
deltazap |
``Erik: it
doesn't look like any .o's have anything linked |
| 20:27.52 |
``Erik |
.o's never
do, it's the binary itself and teh .dylib files |
| 20:28.12 |
deltazap |
oh
d'oh |
| 20:28.28 |
``Erik |
(a .o is just
like a .a without the indexed mapping) |
| 20:29.17 |
``Erik |
(the process
of taking a collection of .o, .a, and references to .dylib (or .la)
files is called "linking"... otool -L shows the runtime link
table) |
| 20:30.58 |
``Erik |
argh, I have
one of the rt's saving 'intelligently' either pix or bw, but png is
being a little bitch :( |
| 20:32.25 |
IriX64 |
confirmed i
can package this thing for windows systems now ``Erik |
| 20:32.57 |
IriX64 |
will you guys
support the brl-cad end of it :) |
| 20:34.50 |
IriX64 |
raytrace
complete gorgeous |
| 20:35.42 |
``Erik |
if it's a
BRL-CAD issue, sure, if it's a distro/build issue, that'd be your
job o.O |
| 20:35.56 |
IriX64 |
heh i can
live with that |
| 20:36.16 |
``Erik |
<-- notes
that almost all the dev's don't touch windows |
| 20:36.31 |
IriX64 |
all your
stuff is here i built with --enable-everything, even jove
built |
| 20:37.30 |
deltazap |
``Erik: otool
only works on object files, not binaries |
| 20:40.27 |
``Erik |
hum, I've
used it on binaries... |
| 20:41.45 |
``Erik |
http://paste.lisp.org/display/39698 |
| 20:42.49 |
``Erik |
use 'file' to
make sure it's a binary and not a shell script (libtool likes
putting bash scripts where you expect binaries, for link
hackery) |
| 20:43.15 |
deltazap |
k |
| 20:43.50 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
< --- ill shut up now :) |
| 20:44.33 |
``Erik |
why's the
rtedge image truncated? did you take the screenshot while it was
still rendering? |
| 20:44.39 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 20:45.09 |
IriX64 |
told you i'm
an impatient little sot ;) |
| 20:49.00 |
IriX64 |
how do i
chanfe the darn font, reading time... |
| 20:49.06 |
IriX64 |
change
too |
| 20:49.12 |
deltazap |
``Erik: ah, i
see, didn't know that it would be in .lib |
| 20:49.18 |
deltazap |
.libs |
| 20:49.33 |
brlcad |
it's only in
libs when you build shared, static are not wrapped |
| 20:50.17 |
brlcad |
deltazap: is
libtcl installed in /usr/brlcad/lib? |
| 20:50.59 |
``Erik |
ah, I'm
building shared |
| 20:51.12 |
deltazap |
i've been
running things from the directory of the source |
| 20:51.35 |
brlcad |
yes, I recall
from your earlier pasting |
| 20:51.54 |
brlcad |
the "quick
fix" is/was to install the libs before running the
binaries |
| 20:52.14 |
brlcad |
hm, that's
make a useful make target |
| 20:52.34 |
brlcad |
make
install-libs or something |
| 20:53.42 |
deltazap |
yeah,
libtcl8.5, libtclstub8.5, tcl8, tcl8.5, tclConfig are in
/usr/brlcad/lib |
| 20:54.09 |
``Erik |
kinda like
"make install-depends"? O.o |
| 20:54.50 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
mebbie/sorta |
| 20:55.20 |
brlcad |
something
like that on just src/mged would get "everything" except mged
hopefully |
| 20:55.32 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543403.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:55.44 |
brlcad |
hola
louipc |
| 20:55.52 |
louipc |
hey
hey |
| 20:55.57 |
``Erik |
um, cd
src/mged && make install-depends will recurse down the
defined DEPS and, um, install 'em... :D |
| 20:56.17 |
``Erik |
(it'll take
headers and docs for shtuff like png and tcl, too, but *shrug* what
can ya do?) |
| 20:57.11 |
``Erik |
hell, I wrote
depends and install-depends so'z I could get the binary I want
installed and ready as quickly as possible without all the other
stuff I wasn't interested in :) |
| 20:57.20 |
brlcad |
that's what I
just said |
| 21:00.01 |
brlcad |
i was more
thinking if there was some set of binaries, like in his case where
it can't run rt and btclsh whether you could just do that on mged
to get all the lib debs |
| 21:00.24 |
brlcad |
instead of
having to do it for rt and btclsh and whatever other binaries it
tries to run without them being installed |
| 21:01.01 |
brlcad |
so you could
do a two-pass and sort of be guaranteed it'd build, mac os x seems
to be the only bitch right now (though I suspect aix has the same
problem) |
| 21:02.16 |
brlcad |
nitfy image
routine, btw |
| 21:02.35 |
``Erik |
it's gotten
much bigger and uglier, it does pix and bw, and I'm CLOSE on
png... |
| 21:03.08 |
``Erik |
hopefully
it'll be able to do both block and streamed saves, so all our
output stuff can just use it |
| 21:03.20 |
``Erik |
but png is
making my head hurt right now :) |
| 21:09.34 |
brlcad |
that probably
could/should be a libfb routine as that's the layer that begins
understanding pixels and images |
| 21:16.05 |
``Erik |
yeah, I
suggested that to lee, he disagreed *shrug* |
| 21:16.06 |
``Erik |
he also
asserted several times that rt can output streaming, even though it
fseek()s, heh |
| 21:16.06 |
brlcad |
what was the
basis for his disagreement |
| 21:16.06 |
brlcad |
suggested or
asked? :P |
| 21:16.25 |
``Erik |
heh,
something like "I think it should go in libfb, is there a better
place?" |
| 21:16.35 |
brlcad |
if you asked
if it should be [whatever], his natural response is usually "no,
you want to use [something not whatever] instead" :) |
| 21:16.46 |
``Erik |
yeah, yeah,
dumb move on my side, heh |
| 21:16.46 |
brlcad |
regardless of
the whatever |
| 21:17.41 |
``Erik |
I wasn't sure
if things like pix-png should link libfb... *shrug* |
| 21:17.59 |
brlcad |
bu's not bad,
probably would be my second choice unless someone wanted to migrate
the basic pixel constructs from libfb to libbu too |
| 21:18.43 |
``Erik |
he went into
lala land trying to figure out the most assinine place, he
hesitated when I said I'd put it in bu |
| 21:19.00 |
brlcad |
more a
question of whether you want to consider image management basic ..
right now that's *only* in libfb |
| 21:19.26 |
``Erik |
(mebbe I
shoulda just used SDL_Surface O:-) ) |
| 21:19.37 |
brlcad |
yuck |
| 21:20.00 |
brlcad |
bu's fine, so
it can do images now too |
| 21:21.09 |
brlcad |
the image
autosizing code that was replicated across libbu, libbn, and libfb
could probably be moved back down into libbu then |
| 21:21.24 |
``Erik |
though if
things get simplified enough, most of util/ is going to be a second
rate clone of ImageMagick's "convert" :/ |
| 21:22.02 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:22.10 |
brlcad |
though we do
a few formats that they don't |
| 21:22.58 |
brlcad |
obscure
unimportant ones of course |
| 21:23.00 |
``Erik |
could
probably make a case that those formats haven't mattered in the
last decade or two :) |
| 21:24.29 |
brlcad |
they're
actually a project we should merge/utilize with the new modeler for
behind the scenes data management/conversion |
| 21:24.42 |
brlcad |
at least
convert and/or libconvert |
| 21:28.35 |
``Erik |
bastage, I
ate one of those nasty celeste grease-disks :/ |
| 21:28.49 |
brlcad |
those are
yummy |
| 21:29.47 |
IriX64 |
thats a
better font :) |
| 21:30.08 |
``Erik |
heh, I'm not
so keen on 'em, and the nutritional facts are kinda skeery on 'em
:) |
| 21:32.22 |
*** join/#brlcad yky
(n=yokoy@89.196.47.212) |
| 21:33.39 |
yky |
hi |
| 21:36.09 |
yky |
are there any
german brlcad users or brlcad workshops in germany? |
| 21:36.23 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 21:37.17 |
brlcad |
yky: yes,
there are |
| 21:37.32 |
brlcad |
at least one
of the devs is in germany too |
| 21:37.56 |
yky |
do you know,
who it is? |
| 21:38.10 |
brlcad |
there is a
tentative workshop being planned for later this summer (not
finalized for sure yet) |
| 21:38.29 |
brlcad |
daniel
rossberg |
| 21:38.38 |
brlcad |
yky: did you
need something in particular? |
| 21:38.57 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-92-67.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:39.01 |
yky |
no, not
really. |
| 21:39.10 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:39.37 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:39.49 |
brlcad |
``Erik: so is
there any end-user impact to that image hook yet? |
| 21:39.53 |
yky |
I hope to
learn brlcad on a workshop more easy |
| 21:40.02 |
brlcad |
(i.e. NEWS
worthy item) |
| 21:40.29 |
brlcad |
yky: it does
help, though the tutorial series is pretty extensive too for some
of the basics |
| 21:40.34 |
``Erik |
ummmm, if not
quite yet |
| 21:40.53 |
brlcad |
i'd not
tested it myself yet |
| 21:40.55 |
``Erik |
I mean, you
can do rtedge -o PIX:blah.poo blah.g something |
| 21:41.01 |
``Erik |
and get a PIX
file |
| 21:41.10 |
``Erik |
or -o
BW:blahh.something and get a bw file |
| 21:41.45 |
``Erik |
or blah.bw
and get a bw file, or blah.pix and get a pix file... or blah.png
and get an error on png_write_info() and an "Ohs Noes"
message |
| 21:41.51 |
``Erik |
oh, wait,
thats not committed yet |
| 21:41.53 |
brlcad |
now that
could be interesting on windows, hopefully doesn't key/abort on
unknowns |
| 21:42.14 |
``Erik |
if you give
it COW:something or moo.cow, it'll assume pix |
| 21:42.21 |
brlcad |
e.g. -o
"C:myfile" :) |
| 21:42.22 |
``Erik |
but that's
not committed yet I don't think |
| 21:42.56 |
brlcad |
what if you
wanted a name like 'PIX:foo', is there a way to specify
it? |
| 21:43.09 |
brlcad |
\: or
somesuch? |
| 21:43.10 |
``Erik |
now if you
give it BW:C:\path\to\lame.img, it's smart enough to say it's a BW
image at C:\path\to... |
| 21:43.19 |
``Erik |
PIX:PIX:foo
? |
| 21:43.28 |
brlcad |
good
enough |
| 21:43.42 |
``Erik |
it's a
q&d hack with "oh the horrors, I'll fix it, I promise"
comments |
| 21:43.43 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 21:43.51 |
brlcad |
riight |
| 21:44.33 |
``Erik |
http://paste.lisp.org/display/39702 |
| 21:45.34 |
``Erik |
the phrasing
of the image name was inspired by... oh my, ImageMagick's
convert... |
| 21:46.42 |
``Erik |
now if you
give it -o PIX: blah.g, open() fails, ... :) |
| 21:47.21 |
``Erik |
or if the
file name is bigger than BUFSIZ |
| 21:48.54 |
IriX64 |
looked at it
the ext part i understand the first part i don't |
| 21:49.42 |
IriX64 |
why string+5
its the first part you want no? |
| 21:50.24 |
IriX64 |
err filename
+5 |
| 21:50.34 |
``Erik |
that's after
I know what it is, the +5 says "skip past the format
describer" |
| 21:50.50 |
``Erik |
I was gonna
hit it with strtok |
| 21:50.56 |
IriX64 |
parts not
shown ? |
| 21:51.00 |
``Erik |
yes, it's
supposed to be static (all the other 'internal' ones are
static) |
| 21:51.13 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 21:52.04 |
brlcad |
kinda useful
generic routine too |
| 21:52.06 |
``Erik |
exposed
functions are all bu_image_ |
| 21:52.22 |
brlcad |
should check
for nullity |
| 21:52.28 |
``Erik |
and public
defines are all BU_IMAGE_ |
| 21:52.49 |
``Erik |
that's done
down in the public function |
| 21:52.51 |
poolio |
``Erik: Just
a note...you're using an incosistent coding style. you use braces
for the if's in the FMT: searching section but not for the filename
extensions |
| 21:53.19 |
``Erik |
poolio: it's
consistantly minimal. in the first block, each if ties to two
statements. in the latter, just one. |
| 21:53.37 |
poolio |
Oh wow. Miss
the semicolon. hah |
| 21:53.55 |
yky |
thx for
input, I will contact daniel directly. |
| 21:53.58 |
poolio |
Also, is it
neccesary to check for punctuation? |
| 21:54.25 |
yky |
bye |
| 21:54.32 |
IriX64 |
case png case
pix case bmp :) |
| 21:55.17 |
poolio |
IriX64: case
only works with ints |
| 21:56.01 |
IriX64 |
ah
ok |
| 21:56.32 |
kwizart |
hi! is it
possible to override --with-tcl=%{_includedir}/tcl-private \ ? so
it can uses the system tcl ? |
| 21:57.28 |
kwizart |
i may need
also system CFLAGS or LDFLAGS about finding libs ... |
| 21:57.54 |
``Erik |
poolio: the
punctuation is part of the syntax... |
| 21:58.13 |
``Erik |
so I can do
-o PIXELS.png |
| 21:58.52 |
``Erik |
or
my.pixbw |
| 22:00.13 |
poolio |
``Erik: Well,
it seems kind of like a waste. How often do you have filenames that
end with png, bw, bmp, or pix |
| 22:02.32 |
``Erik |
damnit, now
ya went and made me ugly it up even more by annoying me |
| 22:02.40 |
IriX64 |
man define
pix as 1 png as 2 etc and use that case thingy |
| 22:03.20 |
``Erik |
http://paste.lisp.org/display/39702#1 |
| 22:03.22 |
IriX64 |
err |
| 22:03.50 |
``Erik |
need a string
comparison somewhere, irix, and I don't trust a hash :) |
| 22:04.49 |
IriX64 |
nice |
| 22:05.01 |
poolio |
Ok, that's
just pointless. |
| 22:05.02 |
IriX64 |
what you
posted is good |
| 22:05.05 |
poolio |
Why would you
do that ``Erik ? |
| 22:05.14 |
``Erik |
makes it
trivial to add new names to the space :) |
| 22:05.21 |
IriX64 |
made his own
case poolio |
| 22:05.42 |
IriX64 |
parole him
:) |
| 22:05.45 |
poolio |
hah |
| 22:06.23 |
``Erik |
('cept I
changed the semantic, damnit) |
| 22:06.49 |
IriX64 |
immaculate
conception of code... interesting :) |
| 22:07.21 |
IriX64 |
eyes are
watering, break time |
| 22:11.08 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: blocking output.
working file guesser, pix-writer, and bw-write. beginnings of png
writer. |
| 22:12.40 |
``Erik |
heads |
| 22:12.42 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: fixed minor logic
bug, heh |
| 22:13.33 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: link libpng in
for image writing |
| 22:16.29 |
brlcad |
kwizart: it
is possible, but still requires 8.5+ using the latest
sources |
| 22:17.08 |
brlcad |
easiest is to
force tcl building off, then append to flags as needed |
| 22:17.25 |
kwizart |
ok i have 8.5
on fc7 but maybe not the lastest sources !? which date are the
lastest ? |
| 22:17.43 |
kwizart |
ok i have
forced tcl not to build... |
| 22:17.45 |
brlcad |
7.10.0 is the
latest |
| 22:17.54 |
kwizart |
yes for
brlcad |
| 22:17.55 |
brlcad |
via
--disable-tcl ? |
| 22:18.05 |
brlcad |
or
disable-tcl-build |
| 22:18.09 |
brlcad |
(same
thing) |
| 22:18.15 |
kwizart |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:18.17 |
kwizart |
yes
ok |
| 22:18.20 |
brlcad |
and that,
yes |
| 22:18.43 |
brlcad |
then just
need to add --with-cflags="..." --with-ldflags="..."
etc |
| 22:18.55 |
brlcad |
or CFLAGS=..
way |
| 22:19.11 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.14 |
kwizart |
but now i
need to a little "rape" the configure.ac script to make it detect
it (pastebin) |
| 22:19.32 |
brlcad |
shouldn't
need to modify configure.ac |
| 22:20.00 |
brlcad |
if you turn
it off and provide the right cflags/cppflags/ldflags, it should
detect |
| 22:20.01 |
kwizart |
http://www.pastebin.ca/438882 |
| 22:20.35 |
kwizart |
ok i will try
to paste everything to the Cflags and ldflags... |
| 22:20.58 |
kwizart |
but the same
issue append with tk iwiget itcl and regex |
| 22:21.06 |
brlcad |
heh, well you
pretty much turned the validty checks off |
| 22:21.29 |
brlcad |
note that you
could have also just overrode during make as well |
| 22:22.22 |
kwizart |
one thought!
is it supposed to work with gcc 4.1.1 ? |
| 22:22.30 |
brlcad |
TCL="-L/usr/lib64 -ltcl8.5"
TK="-L/usr/lib64 -ltk8.5" make after a disabled build, and maybe
with some CPPFLAGS defined |
| 22:22.41 |
brlcad |
sure, that
should be fine |
| 22:23.03 |
brlcad |
should work
with any gcc 2.95+ (though the 2's haven't been tested in a long
while) |
| 22:23.06 |
kwizart |
because when
i tryed to build openNURBS 4 (as system libs) it fails |
| 22:23.30 |
brlcad |
you don't
need openNURBS, i'd just disable it |
| 22:23.58 |
brlcad |
we include
openNURBS in our dist too |
| 22:24.10 |
kwizart |
but
apparently not the version bundled inside brlcad fails |
| 22:24.15 |
brlcad |
I had to make
several mods to it for gcc 4 to work |
| 22:24.35 |
brlcad |
yeah, they
had a few minor issues |
| 22:25.05 |
brlcad |
feel free to
pull a patchset and make it part of the fedora dist :) |
| 22:25.06 |
kwizart |
ok i will
check your diff for it because i may need to use it as system
libs... |
| 22:25.14 |
kwizart |
:) |
| 22:25.29 |
brlcad |
hopefully I
didn't patch pre import |
| 22:25.56 |
kwizart |
well i will
try that for now! thx for your tips... |
| 22:25.57 |
brlcad |
we also
replace their build system, integrating it into ours so it builds
cleanly |
| 22:26.17 |
brlcad |
theirs was a
little flakey |
| 22:26.35 |
kwizart |
yes i saw!
... |
| 22:29.22 |
kwizart |
ITCL="-L/usr/lib64/itcl3.3 -litcl"
ITK="-L/usr/lib64/itk3.3 -litk \ does this seems right also
? |
| 22:29.46 |
brlcad |
``Erik: those
negatives can crash if filename is short |
| 22:29.57 |
brlcad |
segfault |
| 22:35.28 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/libbu/Makefile.am):
libraries are no longer LIBADD'd, they're defined in configure.ac
in a _LIBS dependency variable, added PNG to BU_LIBS |
| 22:36.28 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: oop, htester gets PNG
from BU_LIBS now |
| 22:50.53 |
kwizart |
what i cannot
understand is that i have : |
| 22:51.07 |
kwizart |
checking for
Tcl_Main in -ltcl... yes (like before..) |
| 22:51.18 |
kwizart |
but no system
tcl is found also! |
| 22:53.49 |
joevalle1field |
it tries to
build and run another test program further down |
| 22:54.11 |
joevalle1field |
is the error
in your config.log? |
| 22:54.53 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: netbsd's library was ultimately reverted
due to dependency complications, existing was fixed
instead |
| 22:55.32 |
brlcad |
kwizart: it
performs the library checks regardless of the setting just so
there's a report of what is available/detected when people provide
their build log |
| 22:56.01 |
kwizart |
i can provide
it (uploading!) |
| 22:56.04 |
brlcad |
then, as
joevalle1field mentioned.. it follows up with a more comprehensive
functionality test |
| 22:59.39 |
kwizart |
http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/7/testing/brlcad/build.log |
| 23:01.50 |
joevalleyfield |
looks to me
like the retry blasted the real failure |
| 23:02.27 |
kwizart |
This is the
real failure : configure: libtcl was disabled, but no system Tcl
library was found |
| 23:02.41 |
joevalleyfield |
:) |
| 23:03.01 |
joevalleyfield |
i'm only so
interested because i was playing the same game earlier
today |
| 23:03.27 |
joevalleyfield |
i want to see
the test program fail-- config.log would be about 20 times longer
than it is |
| 23:04.32 |
kwizart |
I suppose
config.log may be deleted by the retry !? |
| 23:05.21 |
joevalleyfield |
are you setup
to modify configure.ac? |
| 23:05.36 |
joevalleyfield |
i mean, you
have all the autotools at hand? |
| 23:06.06 |
kwizart |
yes |
| 23:08.35 |
joevalleyfield |
how do i work
a pastebin? |
| 23:09.19 |
IriX64 |
why does that
log download instead of just opening up in a browser
window |
| 23:09.29 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 23:11.44 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/retry.m4): add option
to disable the retry behavior of configure |
| 23:13.01 |
joevalleyfield |
i think cvs
has a lag |
| 23:13.39 |
joevalleyfield |
if you change
the 'if' on line 110 of retry.m4 to always evaluate false, it will
nullify the retry |
| 23:14.08 |
kwizart |
ok |
| 23:16.49 |
kwizart |
if test
"x$BC_RETRY" = "x" ; then |
| 23:17.29 |
joevalleyfield |
i'd make it
'if test "xy" = "x" ; then' |
| 23:19.03 |
kwizart |
ok
building... |
| 23:19.52 |
brlcad |
yeah, good
mod |
| 23:20.14 |
brlcad |
have to rerun
autogen.sh after you edit the .m4 |
| 23:20.28 |
kwizart |
yes i do it
by default ... |
| 23:23.03 |
kwizart |
ok no retry
has been done... |
| 23:24.49 |
kwizart |
http://pastebin.ca/438960 |
| 23:25.48 |
brlcad |
that's one
helluva configure line |
| 23:25.49 |
brlcad |
damn |
| 23:26.38 |
joevalleyfield |
line
13012 |
| 23:27.20 |
joevalleyfield |
the failure
should always appear right above the cache dump |
| 23:28.05 |
kwizart |
i have tcl
8.5 on fedora 7 ... |
| 23:28.12 |
brlcad |
minor version
< 5 |
| 23:29.08 |
kwizart |
but if i do
return 0 in the program check it go fine... |
| 23:29.20 |
brlcad |
kwizart: for
whatever reason, it's finding a different tcl header |
| 23:29.23 |
kwizart |
and fails
with itcl |
| 23:29.24 |
brlcad |
8.4
presumably |
| 23:29.34 |
kwizart |
but not
tcl... |
| 23:29.54 |
brlcad |
so even if
you set it to zero, something else will fail down the
line |
| 23:29.56 |
joevalleyfield |
just type
locate libtcl and see if you have multiple versions
installed |
| 23:29.59 |
kwizart |
i'm using
mock to build on a chrooter env... |
| 23:30.08 |
brlcad |
locate tcl.h
for that matter |
| 23:30.34 |
joevalleyfield |
find /usr/lib
-name "libtcl*" |
| 23:30.47 |
brlcad |
it's erroring
on the header, not the lib itself |
| 23:30.56 |
joevalleyfield |
oh |
| 23:31.13 |
joevalleyfield |
my
bad |
| 23:31.15 |
brlcad |
it's a
#define sanity check in the test: #elif TCL_MAJOR_VERSION == 8
&& TCL_MINOR_VERSION < 5 |
| 23:31.34 |
brlcad |
fprintf(stderr, "minor version <
5\n"); |
| 23:31.53 |
brlcad |
should
probably have it print what it found |
| 23:32.12 |
kwizart |
do you mind
the same issue appear for tk tlstub itcl itk and iwiget
? |
| 23:32.13 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734991.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:33.40 |
brlcad |
hm? |
| 23:33.48 |
brlcad |
depends
really where the 8.4 is coming from |
| 23:34.58 |
joevalleyfield |
how does your
chroot thing work? |
| 23:35.02 |
joevalleyfield |
are you in
the chroot? |
| 23:35.20 |
kwizart |
no |
| 23:35.39 |
kwizart |
i'm running
fedora core 6 on x86_64! |
| 23:36.14 |
kwizart |
i have a
separate account that used to build things in a chroot
env |
| 23:36.30 |
brlcad |
kwizart: what
version is listed in your tcl.h header? |
| 23:36.47 |
kwizart |
packages are
installed via yum rpm... |
| 23:36.50 |
brlcad |
presumably
/usr/include/tcl.h or something you're providing |
| 23:36.59 |
kwizart |
on the chroot
... searching ... |
| 23:37.22 |
brlcad |
on whatever
you specify, the chroot only matters if you're providing that path
as a forced CPPFLAG |
| 23:37.39 |
brlcad |
unless you're
building in the chroot, which you said you're not :) |
| 23:38.43 |
kwizart |
i have
shame... |
| 23:38.47 |
kwizart |
#define
TCL_VERSION "8.4"! |
| 23:43.55 |
joevalleyfield |
but i can
turn off retry with a configure script now :) |
| 23:46.53 |
IriX64 |
you two...
sorry to have intruded |
| 23:49.07 |
kwizart |
i was
supposed to have tcl 8.5 ! Sorry to miss that ! I've ever fill a
bug about tcl some time ago on redhat ... I will have to update tcl
tk myself... |
| 23:49.21 |
kwizart |
is it
supposed to work with pkg-config ? |
| 23:49.56 |
joevalleyfield |
no |
| 23:50.33 |
brlcad |
kwizart: you
could just let it build the provided tcl :) |
| 23:51.18 |
brlcad |
it'll build
and link it static |
| 23:51.34 |
kwizart |
yes i'm
asking him the current state of art about this package...
! |
| 23:52.23 |
joevalleyfield |
if there's a
yada.pc.in file in a source distribution it supports
pkg-config |
| 23:52.47 |
kwizart |
i mean the
redhat packager... hum i can also but it was supposed to fails
about tcl/tk... i will try for now... |
| 23:53.24 |
kwizart |
joevalleyfield, i can also create it by
hand !? |
| 23:53.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob added addr and make_name commands to
archer |
| 23:54.40 |
joevalleyfield |
kwizart,
you've exceeded my expertise |
| 23:55.28 |
brlcad |
you could
create them.. but what for? |
| 23:55.30 |
joevalleyfield |
you can of
course stick a tcl.pc file in the pkg-config dir, but nobody that
depends on it would look there |
| 23:56.03 |
joevalleyfield |
because tcl
still uses tclConfig.sh in /usr/lib |
| 23:57.23 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add pkg-config scripts |
| 23:58.00 |
kwizart |
how this work
? is this sh script is called at configure step ? |
| 23:58.47 |
joevalleyfield |
i'm really
afraid i'm talking about a different thing than you are thinking
of |
| 23:59.41 |
joevalleyfield |
tclConfig.sh
is located and sourced by the configure script to setup
TCL_LIB_SPEC and TCL_INCLUDE_SPEC |
| 00:00.58 |
joevalleyfield |
that is
exactly parallel to but less elegant than pkg-config somepackage
--cflags and ... --libs |
| 00:01.28 |
joevalleyfield |
there is a
pkg-config macro that makes using them from configure.ac really
convenient |
| 00:04.08 |
kwizart |
some fedora
packaging guidelines say about creating it of at least fix errors,
but i understand that if upstream do not uses them they won't be
used by software linking to it... |
| 00:06.57 |
louipc |
yeah I'm
trying to make pkgs for all that tcl stuff for my distro it's
odd |
| 00:08.01 |
kwizart |
:) |
| 00:08.05 |
louipc |
I think I'm
going to put the needed files into /usr/include and make the
scripts point there rather than my build directory |
| 00:09.11 |
joevalleyfield |
you're
talking about dependency on internal headers? |
| 00:09.13 |
kwizart |
i've asked
the redhat packager about current status of tcl/tk 8.5 |
| 00:09.17 |
louipc |
because
obviously if someone installs it they won't have a
/home/louipc/build/itcl3.3 or whatever hehe |
| 00:10.11 |
louipc |
yeah tcl/tk
isn't properly put together on my distro too. tclConfig.sh points
to the packager's /home/whatever hah |
| 00:10.21 |
kwizart |
on fedora
redhat package there is a /usr/include/tcl-private dir so i
supposes those are internals headers ... |
| 00:10.38 |
louipc |
ah
ok |
| 00:10.53 |
joevalleyfield |
that sounds
like a reasonable way to do it |
| 00:14.31 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/439021
will this help any? |
| 00:15.24 |
kwizart |
[--redhatprovides] i didn't know what was
the purpose of that! |
| 00:15.58 |
IriX64 |
redhat
provided rpm? i rarely use it |
| 00:25.45 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: unbreak it for no sys
png.h-ers, now need png cppflags |
| 00:32.25 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
<----- windows environment tutorial xwindows courtesy xming
:) |
| 00:33.09 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: png_destroy_read_struct()
takes pointers to pointers |
| 00:48.22 |
kwizart |
ok
compilation with internal tcl/tk wend fine until : |
| 00:48.26 |
kwizart |
make[2]: ***
No rule to make target `brep_stub.c', needed by `vers.c'.
Stop.! |
| 00:48.42 |
kwizart |
make[2]:
Leaving directory
`/builddir/build/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.0/src/libwdb' |
| 00:54.02 |
brlcad |
ahh, bad ju
ju |
| 00:54.15 |
brlcad |
wrong logic
in Makefile.am |
| 00:57.50 |
kwizart |
related to
openNurbs been activated or not ? (i will try with it
...) |
| 00:58.03 |
brlcad |
yeah,
sorta |
| 00:58.12 |
brlcad |
there's a
file missing from the source tarball |
| 00:58.31 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: bad dist logic, causes
either brep_stub.c or brep.cpp to be left out of the dist. include
the missing file |
| 01:00.16 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: we really really need a script that
checks a dist source tarball for missing files... |
| 01:16.33 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): remove the WIN32
conditionals relating to the binary mode specifier on file opens.
just keep the rb/wb mode since ISO/IEC 9899:1990 does specify
it. |
| 01:26.31 |
kwizart |
*** buffer
overflow detected ***: |
| 01:32.06 |
kwizart |
http://pastebin.ca/439113 |
| 01:34.56 |
kwizart |
is libfb the
same as : /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libfb.so ? from the xorg modules
? |
| 01:40.11 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-137.uchicago.edu) |
| 01:48.49 |
IriX64 |
i don't know
about xorg but libfb is built here fine |
| 01:49.13 |
IriX64 |
far as i know
not same but im a newbie |
| 01:55.05 |
IriX64 |
i don't see
the rest of it did it get cut off? |
| 02:00.54 |
louipc |
looks like
it's all there to me |
| 02:03.10 |
kwizart |
which rest ?
lit is only the last quote of the build log ... |
| 02:23.50 |
IriX64 |
its a windows
thing, sorry :) |
| 02:24.21 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:37.51 |
IriX64 |
i've assigned
the msn butterfly to my desktop unix mged shortcut :) |
| 02:38.18 |
dli |
I want an
ebuild (gentoo) for 7.10.0 |
| 02:51.17 |
IriX64 |
tempted to
package Xming in the same dir and distribute to anybody who wants
it |
| 02:57.40 |
IriX64 |
doing it
anybody want to try it? |
| 03:14.54 |
brlcad |
kwizart: no
it is not the same |
| 03:15.17 |
brlcad |
there are
three of brl-cad's dozen or so libraries that can conflict with
other projects |
| 03:15.35 |
brlcad |
(and
brl-cad's predates them all) |
| 03:16.15 |
brlcad |
looking into
the crash you've shown, though I believe that is a tcl8.5 bug
:/ |
| 03:17.26 |
kwizart |
do tcl 8.5 is
known stable ? |
| 03:20.12 |
kwizart |
well if i can
help with this (including filling a bug to tcl - i will try to see
this ...) |
| 03:20.28 |
brlcad |
they won't
care without an isolated test case |
| 03:21.33 |
kwizart |
starting
point :) |
| 03:21.55 |
deltazap |
yeah...so...i
don't think i'll be getting 7.10 compiled on my own. I'll just be
waiting until the binary release :) |
| 03:26.37 |
kwizart |
well i
suppose to work on system tcl/tk first to get it
work... |
| 03:28.26 |
kwizart |
Do regex is
also a brlcad projet ? i don't know where i can find it as a system
libs ?! I suppose i was included in boost-devel ? |
| 03:33.02 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
sorry for the complications .. this upgrade includes a slew of
build system changes and not all the kinks have been worked out yet
apparently |
| 03:34.02 |
brlcad |
it's working
on all platforms on my testing end -- which includes at least 7
distinct platforms -- but apparently has issues on
others |
| 03:34.13 |
brlcad |
or is being
masked by my cvs builds |
| 03:35.05 |
brlcad |
kwizart:
libregex is often now bundled along with libc frequently .. try
just -lc |
| 03:35.32 |
brlcad |
it's *not*
the boost library |
| 03:35.56 |
kwizart |
ok |
| 03:39.36 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: (log message
trimmed) |
| 03:39.36 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: john
points out a blatent thread locking problem where a BU_SEM_SYSCALL
is |
| 03:39.36 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
acquired prior to a bu_calloc() which itself also attempts to
acquire that same |
| 03:39.36 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
semaphore.. how the hell did that ever work?? make it use
RT_SEM_RESULTS |
| 03:39.36 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
instead since it is simply initializing the results array. also,
toss in some |
| 03:39.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
flushed output to avoid flooding the mged command windows to see if
that helps |
| 03:39.41 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: with
a separate lockup issue. finally, remove the USE_FORKED_THREADS
hack for |
| 03:41.23 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed hanging bug related to
rtarea |
| 03:41.32 |
brlcad |
kwizart: it
should similarly auto-detect by default.. and it checks libc -- see
if it indicates in config.log why it fails |
| 03:44.31 |
kwizart |
'im checking
the old one here: http://pastebin.ca/438960 |
| 03:44.41 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: typo |
| 03:47.13 |
kwizart |
line 2565 :
configure:44350: result: no |
| 03:51.20 |
brlcad |
./configure:
line 44334: 30367 Segmentation fault
./conftest$ac_exeext |
| 03:52.01 |
brlcad |
so for some
reason, the sanity test crashed |
| 03:52.45 |
brlcad |
you have it
-- the regcomp test from -lc succeeded |
| 03:53.01 |
brlcad |
it failed to
pass the sanity "does it work" functionality test |
| 03:55.29 |
brlcad |
download
http://bzflag.bz/~sean/regtest.c
then compile it (gcc -o regtest regtest.c) and then run it
(./regtest) to see if it crashes on you directly |
| 04:01.17 |
kwizart |
ok |
| 04:03.00 |
kwizart |
no it do not
seems to craches... |
| 04:04.39 |
brlcad |
ze plot
thickens |
| 04:04.56 |
brlcad |
that's the
same test.. so some #define or compiler option is crashing
it |
| 04:05.35 |
brlcad |
i'll look
into it some more tomorrow, but got to run out for a
bit.. |
| 04:05.46 |
kwizart |
well i'm
trying the originale one... |
| 04:25.20 |
kwizart |
well i'm
going to see later ... too late... bye ... |
| 05:22.39 |
deltazap |
brlcad: i
completely understand |
| 05:27.11 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 05:39.16 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753935.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 06:00.10 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543560.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 08:33.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@84.135.70.143) |
| 08:40.28 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543736.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:43.59 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614005.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 12:38.10 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667684.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 13:21.19 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782801.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 13:57.29 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 13:57.30 |
smallfoot- |
hi |
| 13:57.33 |
smallfoot- |
i saw 7.10 is
out |
| 13:57.38 |
smallfoot- |
but is no
win32 binaries |
| 13:57.43 |
smallfoot- |
when is 7.10
come for windows? |
| 13:57.45 |
smallfoot- |
is brlcad
good? :d |
| 13:58.21 |
smallfoot- |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:58.28 |
smallfoot- |
look, 7.8.0
for windows is 1 year old |
| 13:58.37 |
smallfoot- |
must make new
7.10 for windows please!! |
| 13:59.59 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 14:07.07 |
brlcad |
hello
smallfoot- |
| 14:08.29 |
brlcad |
we don't have
a dedicated windows developer, so releases for windows are ..
infrequent |
| 14:08.45 |
brlcad |
if you're a
windows dev, more than glad to have the help :) |
| 14:10.25 |
brlcad |
and as for
whether it's "good" depends entirely on your familiarity and
expectations .. it's not autocad and doesn't have a good graphical
modeler interface. it does, however, have a powerful graphics
engine and a lot of capabilities |
| 14:13.05 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/ (12 files): add initial
pkg-config files for the core of brl-cad's libraries including
libbn, libbu, librt, libdm, libfb, liboptical, libmultispectral,
libwdb, libpkg, libfft, and libbrlcad |
| 14:15.33 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate all the new pkgconfig
description files, and AC_SUBST a variety of system library symbols
that they may need |
| 14:16.01 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into pkgconfig for
the pkg-config descriptor files |
| 14:16.39 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added pkg-config files for core
libraries |
| 14:22.13 |
smallfoot- |
why doesnt
BRL-CAD enter the Google Summer of Code ? |
| 14:23.16 |
smallfoot- |
and why dont
you say that BRL-CAD is a valuable tool in fighting terrorism, then
you get 100 new full-time developers from the US ARMY
lol |
| 14:23.24 |
smallfoot- |
what is
needed to compile BRL-CAD? |
| 14:23.43 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
we may host our own BSoC or BWoC |
| 14:23.54 |
brlcad |
a compiler
and a shell ;) |
| 14:23.57 |
smallfoot- |
BSoC?
BWoC? |
| 14:24.03 |
brlcad |
BRL-CAD
Summer of Code |
| 14:24.12 |
brlcad |
we may do our
own |
| 14:24.20 |
smallfoot- |
but google
sponsors developers with money, and everybody knows about google
summer of code |
| 14:24.26 |
brlcad |
not for this
summer, but perhaps for this winter |
| 14:24.30 |
smallfoot- |
ok |
| 14:24.49 |
smallfoot- |
if you
copmile on windows, what you need besides a compiler? |
| 14:24.59 |
smallfoot- |
need
libraries and stuff? |
| 14:25.04 |
brlcad |
we might
participate in GSoC next year too, depends if we get
accepted |
| 14:25.15 |
smallfoot- |
okie
cool |
| 14:25.22 |
brlcad |
on windows,
you'll need Active Tcl's tcl/tk distribution |
| 14:25.26 |
smallfoot- |
BRL-CAD is
same codebase as in 1970? |
| 14:25.33 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:25.49 |
brlcad |
the "same" ..
no, it's been under constant development |
| 14:25.49 |
smallfoot- |
maybe would
be better use wxWdigets? |
| 14:25.49 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:25.49 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 14:25.54 |
smallfoot- |
ever
rewritten from scratch? |
| 14:26.04 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 14:26.23 |
brlcad |
you must be
new to cad :) |
| 14:26.47 |
smallfoot- |
yes |
| 14:26.52 |
smallfoot- |
i never did
any cad ever before lol |
| 14:26.56 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
more than a million lines of code |
| 14:27.10 |
smallfoot- |
but i thought
"hey it would be cool to download a cad software, and do a computer
case box" |
| 14:27.14 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:27.34 |
brlcad |
and we only
touch on a small section of the "cad industry" |
| 14:27.47 |
brlcad |
in the big
picture |
| 14:28.01 |
brlcad |
interface-wise, a "rewrite" per-se would
be useful |
| 14:28.25 |
brlcad |
something
that uses brl-cad's geometry engine and various converters and data
processors, but just has a new interface |
| 14:28.37 |
smallfoot- |
oh the guy
who made brlcad is dead :( |
| 14:29.11 |
brlcad |
yes, muuss
passed away several years ago |
| 14:29.17 |
smallfoot- |
:( |
| 14:29.25 |
brlcad |
though his
legacy lives on |
| 14:30.36 |
smallfoot- |
yeah, thats
good |
| 14:30.59 |
smallfoot- |
why is your
name brlcad? |
| 14:31.11 |
smallfoot- |
when i first
saaw name brlcad in the channel, i thought it was a bot |
| 14:31.30 |
brlcad |
heh, well I
can't do much about that now can I :) |
| 14:31.36 |
brlcad |
beep |
| 14:31.39 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 14:31.40 |
brlcad |
error, that
does not compute |
| 14:32.00 |
deltazap |
oh great,
brlcad is going to start to make no sense at all! |
| 14:32.10 |
brlcad |
deltazap: I
ever did? :) |
| 14:32.24 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 14:32.39 |
archivist |
he never
sleeps so he must be a bot |
| 14:32.47 |
smallfoot- |
when i run
Windows installer of BRLCAD, it ask for Username and Company, but
since its free software, its pointless, why it bother ask
that? |
| 14:33.00 |
deltazap |
in another
irc channel i idle in, we have a bot that's been around for quite a
while now, i believe his megahal brain is somewhere around
60MB |
| 14:33.04 |
smallfoot- |
also,
InstallShield is proprietary software, its better use MSI or
NSIS |
| 14:34.00 |
smallfoot- |
does US ARMY
use BRL-CAD to make tanks and then really make them? |
| 14:35.12 |
smallfoot- |
i wanted
BRL-CAD but it installed Archer and MGED? |
| 14:35.31 |
deltazap |
mged is the
interface to brlcad |
| 14:35.37 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
usually the other way around -- the tanks exist, they are modeled
in brl-cad and then analyzed |
| 14:35.37 |
smallfoot- |
okay |
| 14:35.53 |
smallfoot- |
deltazap,
okay, maybe it should be made clear, not to confuse
users |
| 14:36.03 |
brlcad |
primarily for
vulnerability and lethality analysis, but often for other purposes
too |
| 14:36.16 |
smallfoot- |
brlcad, oh,
okay.. but is it possible to make something in BRLCAD, and then
make an item from it? |
| 14:36.31 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-: i
agree.. that old windows installer being used there is crap
:) |
| 14:36.37 |
brlcad |
nsis would be
way better |
| 14:36.45 |
brlcad |
just need
someone to put it together :) |
| 14:37.07 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 14:37.16 |
smallfoot- |
you can put
that on TODO list or something |
| 14:37.52 |
smallfoot- |
the About
dialog, should have a logo, and a clickable URL to the
website |
| 14:38.31 |
smallfoot- |
when i create
"New", or something, it ask me to write database name, it should
ask me when i save, not when i create |
| 14:38.58 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
mged never "saves" |
| 14:39.11 |
brlcad |
everything is
*always* saved |
| 14:39.18 |
brlcad |
different
philosophy |
| 14:39.25 |
smallfoot- |
"* Use NSIS
instead of InstallShield/MSI for Windows binary releases", ah, i
see it |
| 14:39.34 |
smallfoot- |
oh,
interestin |
| 14:39.45 |
smallfoot- |
but then if i
open it, and change something, then i dont want to keep the change,
then it sucks |
| 14:39.56 |
brlcad |
depends on
the type of change |
| 14:40.03 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:40.32 |
brlcad |
but yes, if
you actually edited geometry -- you'd have to make your intention
evident before you edit, make a copy, etc |
| 14:41.09 |
smallfoot- |
okay, many
people not used to this |
| 14:41.49 |
smallfoot- |
now, i
noticed there is no toolbox where you can select what you want to
create, you must use the Create menu, i think there should be a
toolbox, like in any software |
| 14:42.28 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
mged is powerful -- it's not easy to use or pretty or well
organized :) |
| 14:42.29 |
smallfoot- |
now i created
an item, but i want to undo it, so i pressed ctrl-z which i
expected it to undo it, but instead it spins it lol |
| 14:42.39 |
brlcad |
0 stops the
spin |
| 14:42.43 |
smallfoot- |
someone
should make it easier |
| 14:42.52 |
brlcad |
"someone" is
working on that |
| 14:43.02 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 14:43.02 |
brlcad |
and you're
welcome to help :) |
| 14:43.14 |
smallfoot- |
also there is
"statusbar", which is pretty standard for all apps
almost |
| 14:43.24 |
smallfoot- |
statusbar
could be good, could provide valuable information |
| 14:43.27 |
brlcad |
there's a
status bar |
| 14:43.30 |
smallfoot- |
oh, i dont
see it |
| 14:43.45 |
smallfoot- |
oh, maybe its
in that console thing? |
| 14:43.56 |
brlcad |
maybe don't
be so quick to jump to conclusions.. it usually takes weeks to
really "find" everything in mged |
| 14:44.02 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:44.04 |
brlcad |
it's not a
discoverable interface -- requires training |
| 14:44.10 |
smallfoot- |
someone
should make it less than weeks to find things lol |
| 14:44.12 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:44.14 |
brlcad |
going through
the tutorials |
| 14:44.36 |
deltazap |
smallfoot-:
it's not that hard once you get the hang of things |
| 14:44.59 |
brlcad |
seriously,
we're not short of ideas either -- the deficiencies and powerful
aspects are pretty well known |
| 14:45.25 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:45.39 |
smallfoot- |
this
multipane mode is nice |
| 14:45.50 |
deltazap |
i still think
that Pro/E is much more confusing than brlcad :P |
| 14:45.58 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
:) |
| 14:46.05 |
smallfoot- |
but the menus
has no shortcut keys, it would be good add some, it could increase
productivity, so you can use keyboard instead of have to go through
the menus with mouse |
| 14:46.21 |
brlcad |
there are
shortcut keys |
| 14:46.31 |
smallfoot- |
they're not
mentioned in the menu |
| 14:46.37 |
smallfoot- |
usually
they're mentioned in the menu to the right |
| 14:46.37 |
brlcad |
and hidden
key bindings |
| 14:46.41 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:46.49 |
brlcad |
there's not
shortcuts to everything, but to many |
| 14:46.58 |
brlcad |
look for the
underline |
| 14:47.04 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:47.12 |
smallfoot- |
ah, now i
understand |
| 14:47.16 |
smallfoot- |
a little bit
unconventional |
| 14:47.26 |
smallfoot- |
ADD
? |
| 14:47.32 |
brlcad |
nvr mind
:) |
| 14:47.35 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 14:47.44 |
brlcad |
like you've
had too much coffee |
| 14:47.45 |
smallfoot- |
the grid only
shows in one pane when i use multipane mode |
| 14:47.48 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 14:47.50 |
smallfoot- |
ya, maybe
:d |
| 14:47.55 |
smallfoot- |
no, i dont
drink coffee lol |
| 14:48.21 |
deltazap |
brlcad: next
friday, you may see a temporary increase in brlcad
users |
| 14:48.21 |
brlcad |
when in
multipane mode, operations are per pane |
| 14:48.23 |
deltazap |
;) |
| 14:48.29 |
brlcad |
you can
enable/disable features for any/all panes |
| 14:48.40 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
oh? |
| 14:48.44 |
brlcad |
only
temporary? :) |
| 14:49.09 |
smallfoot- |
an GUI
rewrite would be good |
| 14:49.17 |
brlcad |
it would be
very good |
| 14:49.20 |
deltazap |
we're doing a
computer security competition and for one of the 1 hour challenges,
it's going to be a brlcad model with a hidden message |
| 14:49.42 |
brlcad |
nifty |
| 14:49.48 |
brlcad |
how's it
"hidden"? |
| 14:50.36 |
smallfoot- |
the font in
the menus on Windows is big |
| 14:50.39 |
brlcad |
or maybe best
to know know ;) |
| 14:50.45 |
brlcad |
s/know
know/not know/ |
| 14:50.51 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
it's configurable |
| 14:50.59 |
deltazap |
i'll let you
find it when i get it done ;) |
| 14:51.22 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:51.44 |
brlcad |
the guy that
wrote most of mged's gui is not only partially color blind, his
eyesight's not so hot either :) |
| 14:51.51 |
brlcad |
he liked
everything bigger than the defaults |
| 14:52.20 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
you might like archer a little more |
| 14:52.36 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:52.36 |
brlcad |
it's missing
a lot of functionality, but it's an interface more like what you're
probably used to |
| 14:53.01 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png |
| 14:53.08 |
smallfoot- |
yeah, Arhcer
looks nicer |
| 14:53.22 |
smallfoot- |
hmm |
| 14:53.23 |
brlcad |
basically
it's still mged, just with a different gui |
| 14:53.28 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:53.31 |
smallfoot- |
now i
understand |
| 14:53.45 |
smallfoot- |
so BRL-CAD is
kinda the underlaying engine, and Archer and MGED are
frontends? |
| 14:54.32 |
brlcad |
BRL-CAD also
*includes* the underlying engine .. and yes, archer and mged are
two modeler "frontends" |
| 14:54.45 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 14:54.52 |
brlcad |
there are
also about 400 other processing tools |
| 14:54.53 |
smallfoot- |
which is
best? which do you use? |
| 14:54.57 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:55.06 |
smallfoot- |
400 other
processing tools that use BRL-CAD? |
| 14:55.15 |
brlcad |
no, brl-cad
includes 400 other tools |
| 14:55.54 |
brlcad |
mged and
archer, and a couple others, however, are the "main" gui-based
ones |
| 14:56.17 |
brlcad |
the rest are
data processors of various sorts -- image processing, geometry
conversion, data manipulation, procedural content creation,e
tc |
| 14:56.29 |
brlcad |
it's a suite
of tools |
| 14:57.00 |
smallfoot- |
oh, much,
big, complex |
| 14:57.11 |
smallfoot- |
so which is
best? which do you use? archer or mged? |
| 14:57.32 |
deltazap |
smallfoot-:
more...unixy :) |
| 14:57.39 |
brlcad |
archer has a
lot of "better" gui aspects, but it's still mostly a prototype
design |
| 14:57.50 |
brlcad |
mged has "the
power" |
| 14:58.15 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 14:58.29 |
smallfoot- |
is archer
meant to be gui 2.0 or something? |
| 14:58.59 |
brlcad |
it was meant
to be a prototype design, it could easily replace mged down the
road if it added the missing functionality |
| 14:59.13 |
smallfoot- |
its intended
to replace MGED? |
| 14:59.29 |
brlcad |
depends whom
you ask |
| 14:59.42 |
brlcad |
that was
probably some of the intention |
| 14:59.59 |
smallfoot- |
archer feels
more nice and modern |
| 15:00.02 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 15:00.08 |
brlcad |
it's mostly
written by the same guy that wrote mged, he's basically refactoring
everything as he goes along |
| 15:00.14 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:00.19 |
smallfoot- |
i dont know
how to draw things in archer |
| 15:00.37 |
brlcad |
me either, so
can't help you much ;) |
| 15:00.40 |
brlcad |
again
*prototype* |
| 15:00.42 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 15:00.58 |
brlcad |
i.e.
pre-alpha |
| 15:01.07 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 15:01.10 |
smallfoot- |
hehe,
okie |
| 15:01.18 |
brlcad |
functional,
and a great improvement gui-wise |
| 15:01.29 |
brlcad |
but far from
complete or usable for general use |
| 15:01.33 |
brlcad |
needs more
work |
| 15:02.13 |
brlcad |
mged is
functional and usable.. but requires a fair bit of learning before
you can use it, but the docs are pretty extensive |
| 15:05.05 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:05.40 |
smallfoot- |
i cant get
Archer to an usable state :( |
| 15:06.02 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 15:06.07 |
brlcad |
did you turn
on "advanced" moded? |
| 15:06.10 |
smallfoot- |
yes |
| 15:06.19 |
smallfoot- |
it made more
stuff appear, but all was "disabled" |
| 15:06.22 |
smallfoot- |
non-clickable |
| 15:06.25 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 15:06.31 |
brlcad |
well, you
have to open a geometry file |
| 15:06.38 |
smallfoot- |
i made a
"new" one |
| 15:06.44 |
smallfoot- |
i
think |
| 15:06.55 |
brlcad |
open
something that already exists |
| 15:07.05 |
brlcad |
see if you
can display it, like moss.g |
| 15:07.11 |
smallfoot- |
MGED can only
export to ascii and database? cant export to SVG, 3ds, dwf or any
of formats? |
| 15:07.15 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:07.43 |
brlcad |
MGED reads
and writes BRL-CAD format .. there are other tools (part of the
400) that read/write other formats |
| 15:08.24 |
brlcad |
two diagrams
of interest perhaps: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 15:08.24 |
smallfoot- |
ah, open
moss.g works |
| 15:08.42 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg |
| 15:08.44 |
smallfoot- |
it should be
integrated in MGED and Archer to export to more formats |
| 15:10.25 |
brlcad |
here's an
example pure brl-cad model made with mged: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg |
| 15:12.02 |
smallfoot- |
looks
nice |
| 15:12.22 |
smallfoot- |
is autocad
the industry de-fact thing? like photoshop is to
graphics? |
| 15:12.50 |
brlcad |
they're one
of the biggest, but no, not the defacto standard |
| 15:13.17 |
brlcad |
there are
about 5 companies that are each multi-billion dollar profit
makers |
| 15:14.09 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:14.15 |
smallfoot- |
which are the
most popular software? |
| 15:14.25 |
brlcad |
ah, here's a
better example of a prototypical model: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png |
| 15:14.56 |
smallfoot- |
complex
drawing |
| 15:16.42 |
smallfoot- |
you know
which are the most popular software? |
| 15:17.19 |
brlcad |
pretty
much |
| 15:17.41 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p5487468F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:18.08 |
smallfoot- |
which
is? |
| 15:20.14 |
brlcad |
depends which
part of the cad domain you care about |
| 15:20.43 |
brlcad |
there are at
least one or two major products in each industry: http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:21.40 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:22.08 |
smallfoot- |
oh, its
pretty big industry |
| 15:22.28 |
brlcad |
pro/e,
unigraphics/nx, solidworks, autocad, gibbscam, catia |
| 15:22.46 |
brlcad |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CAD_companies |
| 15:23.10 |
smallfoot- |
oh, i only
heard about autocad |
| 15:23.47 |
smallfoot- |
i never done
anything CAD, CAE, CAM stuff before, and its kinda confusing, and
difficult to use software =/ |
| 15:24.05 |
smallfoot- |
do you know
any good software? any easy software? any noob
software? |
| 15:25.01 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
pretty easy to me :) |
| 15:25.07 |
brlcad |
but not
noob-friendly |
| 15:25.31 |
brlcad |
CAD software
is hard in general -- I don't know anyone that has it "simplified
down" |
| 15:25.45 |
brlcad |
the closest
you'll probably get is something non-CAD but still
modeling |
| 15:26.23 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:26.39 |
smallfoot- |
ya, i tried
Blender, its some 3D software, but its difficult too
lol |
| 15:26.48 |
smallfoot- |
it seems all
kind of CAD and 3D software is difficult lol |
| 15:27.03 |
brlcad |
you probably
also mean "free", which none of those I listed are free by a long
shot ;) |
| 15:28.58 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 15:29.20 |
smallfoot- |
even Google
SketchUp is difficult for me lol |
| 15:32.03 |
brlcad |
well
then.. |
| 15:32.22 |
brlcad |
maybe the
problem isn't the software :) |
| 15:32.28 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 15:32.28 |
brlcad |
maybe too
many skittles :) |
| 15:32.31 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 15:33.02 |
smallfoot- |
isnt there
any software, where you can write stuff like <box width="50cm"
height="20cm" depth"10cm" color="red"> or something? |
| 15:33.04 |
brlcad |
so, you're
going to whip out an nsis installer for brl-cad ? :) |
| 15:33.13 |
smallfoot- |
i never used
NSIS |
| 15:33.18 |
smallfoot- |
never made an
installer before |
| 15:33.26 |
brlcad |
good chance
to learn ;) |
| 15:33.32 |
smallfoot- |
true |
| 15:33.37 |
brlcad |
lots of fame,
glory, and exposure |
| 15:33.47 |
smallfoot- |
yeah, and
maybe sex too |
| 15:33.49 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 15:34.22 |
brlcad |
that 7.6.0
windows installer reports about 100,000 downloads |
| 15:34.35 |
smallfoot- |
wow |
| 15:34.37 |
smallfoot- |
cool |
| 15:34.45 |
brlcad |
so you'd get
a lot of exposure if you made it better ;) |
| 15:35.03 |
smallfoot- |
i install
NSIs now, gonna check it out |
| 15:35.53 |
brlcad |
I have a
beautiful example nsis installer for you to go by if you get that
far |
| 15:36.43 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:38.16 |
smallfoot- |
ok, i did an
example installer :p |
| 15:38.34 |
brlcad |
i mean a
fully-functional example from a real app :) |
| 15:38.39 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 15:38.41 |
brlcad |
bz's is
splended |
| 15:38.45 |
smallfoot- |
i wonder if i
need write registry keys? |
| 15:39.10 |
brlcad |
should
not |
| 15:39.28 |
brlcad |
here's a good
example:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.8.exe?download |
| 15:39.34 |
smallfoot- |
some reg keys
needed if you want it to be uninstallable |
| 15:40.35 |
brlcad |
the actual
nsis for that example:
http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/ |
| 15:40.54 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 15:40.55 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
not necessarily - you can provide an uninstaller |
| 15:41.18 |
smallfoot- |
ya, i
guess |
| 15:41.34 |
smallfoot- |
but example
shows what reg keys to use to put an uninstalled in "Add/Remove
programs" |
| 15:42.51 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
would be the easiest for starters |
| 15:43.01 |
brlcad |
i'm saying
that eventually, you'd want that to be optional |
| 15:44.50 |
smallfoot- |
its standard
to use "Add/Remove progams", so i think that should be used, thouhg
you can uninstall from start menu too |
| 15:46.02 |
smallfoot- |
i dont think
its possible to choose a whole directory in NSIS, you must choose
file for file, when creating the config? |
| 15:46.45 |
brlcad |
i don't
remember |
| 15:47.26 |
brlcad |
i believe you
can |
| 15:47.36 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 15:47.43 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
can |
| 15:47.44 |
smallfoot- |
you used NSIS
before? |
| 15:47.50 |
brlcad |
did you even
read the example?? :) |
| 15:47.56 |
smallfoot- |
i read
example.nsi |
| 15:48.03 |
smallfoot- |
and
example2.nsi |
| 15:48.11 |
brlcad |
no, the
functioning one |
| 15:48.19 |
smallfoot- |
hmm |
| 15:48.30 |
brlcad |
11:39
<@brlcad> here's a good example:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.8.exe?download |
| 15:48.34 |
brlcad |
11:40
<@brlcad> the actual nsis for that example:
http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/ |
| 15:48.38 |
smallfoot- |
oh
those |
| 15:48.48 |
smallfoot- |
but i thouht
thats for fancy unneeded graphics? |
| 15:49.20 |
brlcad |
eh, that's
only one aspect of many |
| 15:49.31 |
brlcad |
you do see
that there's an nsis file in there? |
| 15:50.22 |
brlcad |
and the
"fancy unneeded" graphics might not be strictly necessary, but they
are also part of the polish that would be nice to have |
| 15:51.25 |
smallfoot- |
indeed |
| 16:04.09 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.1: add an initial manpage
for the brlcad-config script |
| 16:11.08 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: added pkg-config scripts |
| 16:13.08 |
smallfoot- |
you dont
happen to know how to copy a whole directory instead of just a file
in NSIS? |
| 16:19.41 |
smallfoot- |
ah, i figured
it out |
| 16:32.24 |
smallfoot- |
so you want
the installer to have Modern UI like the one in BzFlag? |
| 16:40.00 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 16:40.13 |
brlcad |
though the
actual images don't have to be sorted out |
| 16:40.39 |
brlcad |
we have
artwork I can stub in for them.. more just having them be a
placeholder -- could even just leave the same images |
| 16:40.54 |
smallfoot- |
ah,
okie |
| 16:40.59 |
smallfoot- |
you have any
.ico ? |
| 16:42.31 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 16:43.04 |
smallfoot- |
okie, you
send me? |
| 16:45.17 |
brlcad |
here's a
crappy old one:
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/doc/html/manuals/small-eagleCAD.ico |
| 16:46.00 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 16:48.12 |
brlcad |
need to
regenerate a better .ico from http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 16:50.32 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 16:50.45 |
smallfoot- |
much nicer
logo |
| 16:50.51 |
smallfoot- |
i dont have
any icon software tool thouhg |
| 16:52.52 |
smallfoot- |
i guess its
okay for me to use the bzflag as a base? |
| 16:53.53 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 16:54.10 |
brlcad |
the images
are easy to replace |
| 16:55.50 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 16:57.28 |
smallfoot- |
this "Modern
UI" that BzFlag makes the installer a bit more complex |
| 17:00.53 |
brlcad |
it's also got
optional installation componenets, which is something BRL-CAD needs
too |
| 17:02.16 |
smallfoot- |
yeah |
| 17:02.23 |
smallfoot- |
for "Example"
directory |
| 17:02.25 |
smallfoot- |
and stuff
like that |
| 17:02.30 |
smallfoot- |
maybe for
Archer |
| 17:07.32 |
smallfoot- |
you sent me a
bad icon, it was 96x83 dimensions |
| 17:08.34 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
main sections would probably be example geometry, documentation,
developer libraries/headers, & applications (converters,
benchmark suite, MGED, and Archer) |
| 17:09.04 |
brlcad |
i thought
that icon seemed corrupt |
| 17:09.26 |
smallfoot- |
yeah, the
NSIS wouldnt compile, it warned about the icon |
| 17:09.40 |
smallfoot- |
i can use the
icon from bzflag |
| 17:16.36 |
smallfoot- |
example
geometry is in BRL-CAD\Samples? |
| 17:16.59 |
brlcad |
? |
| 17:17.20 |
brlcad |
it's wherever
you put it |
| 17:17.57 |
brlcad |
for a normal
unix install, it's in
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.0/db |
| 17:18.17 |
brlcad |
for windows
... |
| 17:36.55 |
smallfoot- |
we need
side.bmp of 164x314 |
| 17:37.16 |
smallfoot- |
and header of
like 150px width (or wider) and 57px high |
| 17:47.59 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 17:49.28 |
smallfoot- |
there is
doc\htlm\manuals |
| 17:49.39 |
smallfoot- |
but doc\html\
is empty, its only the folder manuals there |
| 17:50.24 |
brlcad |
you mean in
the 7.6.0 release? |
| 17:50.36 |
brlcad |
ignore what's
in there ;) it's missing a lot of things |
| 17:51.16 |
brlcad |
in a source
distribution, it'll be most of the items under the doc/ directory,
as well as other docs on the website like the tutorial
pdfs |
| 17:51.59 |
smallfoot- |
7.8.0 |
| 17:52.09 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 17:52.16 |
smallfoot- |
didnt know
there are pdfs |
| 17:53.17 |
smallfoot- |
you want user
to be able to choose not to install start menu icons? |
| 17:54.26 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 17:54.50 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 18:08.45 |
smallfoot- |
you dont have
BRL-CAD installed on any Windows machine atm? |
| 18:15.41 |
smallfoot- |
wow, this
InstallShield really is dumb |
| 18:17.19 |
brlcad |
done with the
graphics, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/header.bmp
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/side.bmp |
| 18:17.41 |
smallfoot- |
awesome |
| 18:19.23 |
smallfoot- |
someone
should compile the .exe files so the icons are attached to
them |
| 18:19.51 |
smallfoot- |
so we need a
icon and perhaps but only maybe a uninstall icon, i dont think its
really needed, but we could have it if wants |
| 18:36.53 |
smallfoot- |
can you get
me an good ico? |
| 18:38.48 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/ |
| 18:39.01 |
brlcad |
was just
something quick |
| 18:39.13 |
brlcad |
dunno if the
larger sizes are valid, can't test really well |
| 18:43.44 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-92-11.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:45.45 |
smallfoot- |
best would be
if all 4 was in 1 .ico file |
| 19:05.24 |
smallfoot- |
Error finding
icon resources: installer, uninstaller icon size mismatch - see the
Icon instruction's documentation for more information --
failing! |
| 19:05.25 |
smallfoot- |
Error -
aborting creation process |
| 19:05.43 |
smallfoot- |
the icon you
sent me apparently isnt good enough for NSIS |
| 19:05.57 |
brlcad |
which one did
you use? |
| 19:06.03 |
smallfoot- |
32x32 |
| 19:06.27 |
smallfoot- |
which is
16x16 |
| 19:06.28 |
brlcad |
saying it's a
mismatch.. so uninstaller must be different size |
| 19:06.41 |
smallfoot- |
though the
bzflag icon was 32x32 and it worked fine |
| 19:06.54 |
brlcad |
bzflag had
multiples embedded |
| 19:06.57 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 19:07.01 |
smallfoot- |
now i
uncommented the uninstaller icon; Error finding icon resources:
installer, uninstaller number of icons doesn't match - see the Icon
instruction's documentation for more information --
failing! |
| 19:07.03 |
brlcad |
so no
mismatch |
| 19:07.10 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 19:07.18 |
smallfoot- |
i guess we
need one with both 16x16 and 32x32 |
| 19:07.21 |
smallfoot- |
you could
make that? |
| 19:07.27 |
brlcad |
or an
uninstaller with 32 |
| 19:07.44 |
brlcad |
i'm working
on a multisized .ico |
| 19:08.53 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 19:09.48 |
smallfoot- |
do you think
you could compile 7.10.0 and we roll out a new release? |
| 19:10.41 |
brlcad |
can do a
7.10.2 at the end of this month, there are a couple fixes that
needed to be made already |
| 19:10.47 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 19:10.49 |
brlcad |
including
windows build fixes |
| 19:10.59 |
smallfoot- |
thought
7.10.0 was latest, that was the version of the source at SF.net i
saw |
| 19:11.01 |
smallfoot- |
cool |
| 19:11.05 |
brlcad |
it is the
latest |
| 19:11.08 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 19:11.11 |
smallfoot- |
but you say
0.2 |
| 19:11.21 |
smallfoot- |
err,
10.2 |
| 19:11.21 |
brlcad |
yes, that's
the next release version |
| 19:11.25 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 19:11.30 |
smallfoot- |
col |
| 19:11.30 |
brlcad |
in about two
weeks |
| 19:11.32 |
smallfoot- |
cool* |
| 19:11.33 |
smallfoot- |
nice |
| 19:11.46 |
smallfoot- |
the installer
is pretty much done, i believe |
| 19:11.46 |
brlcad |
trying to
stick to our monthly release schedule |
| 19:11.50 |
smallfoot- |
just needs be
compiled and tested |
| 19:11.53 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 19:12.15 |
smallfoot- |
you done with
the icon soon? |
| 19:12.15 |
brlcad |
if I stay off
irc a few minutes :) |
| 19:12.18 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:13.06 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 19:13.11 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 19:16.03 |
dli |
I want a
brlcad-cvs package for gentoo |
| 19:20.22 |
``Erik |
so go make
one? |
| 19:22.05 |
dli |
``Erik, I
couldn't make it run |
| 19:22.15 |
bjorkBSD |
try again?
:) |
| 19:23.20 |
dli |
bjorkBSD,
kidding? |
| 19:24.06 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 19:47.25 |
smallfoot- |
brlcad, you
working on the ico? |
| 19:52.28 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 19:53.11 |
smallfoot- |
good |
| 19:53.14 |
smallfoot- |
you have it
ready soon? :d |
| 19:53.24 |
brlcad |
hopefully |
| 19:54.39 |
smallfoot- |
good |
| 20:11.39 |
dli |
I got a
gentoo ebuild for cvs, it's compiling now |
| 20:18.45 |
brlcad |
there we go,
that should be something |
| 20:18.54 |
brlcad |
not a great
icon, but it'll do for now |
| 20:19.22 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/mossicon.ico |
| 20:19.42 |
brlcad |
question,
though.. which icon is this for? |
| 20:19.54 |
brlcad |
MGED !=
BRL-CAD |
| 20:20.21 |
brlcad |
if it's an
mged icon, i'll have to create another |
| 20:22.06 |
smallfoot- |
this one is
primarily for installer |
| 20:22.12 |
smallfoot- |
but one for
MGEd would be good too |
| 20:24.01 |
brlcad |
okay, yeah,
for installer, that'll do just fine |
| 20:24.02 |
smallfoot- |
Error finding
icon resources: installer, uninstaller icon size mismatch - see the
Icon instruction's documentation for more information --
failing! |
| 20:24.02 |
brlcad |
well I did
verify this one .. it has 48, 32, 16 embedded, should be standard
win32 format |
| 20:24.06 |
brlcad |
uninstaller
might have to match exactly or something |
| 20:24.15 |
brlcad |
what
uninstaller icon are you using? |
| 20:24.27 |
smallfoot- |
the one that
came with bzflag |
| 20:24.36 |
smallfoot- |
which is
16x16 and works with bzflag.ico which is 32x32 strange |
| 20:25.07 |
brlcad |
ah, it only
has 16 and 32 |
| 20:25.12 |
brlcad |
perhaps it
has to match all sizes |
| 20:25.17 |
brlcad |
i'll make one
up |
| 20:38.29 |
IriX64 |
heh
-A=opteron, who you kidding IriX |
| 20:42.02 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 20:42.02 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 20:45.00 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/440165
<----- hehehehe should i build it? |
| 20:45.12 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.176.51) |
| 20:53.33 |
IriX64 |
theres a
picture of an mged icon on my blog now, yours if you want
it |
| 20:54.45 |
smallfoot- |
where your
blog? |
| 20:55.08 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 20:55.15 |
IriX64 |
use the
- |
| 20:57.00 |
IriX64 |
thanks to
whoever put the opteron specific machine.h together for gcc
:) |
| 20:58.28 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/mossicon.ico
and http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/uninstall.ico
updated |
| 20:58.34 |
brlcad |
they are
matching now |
| 20:58.54 |
brlcad |
if it still
errors, then there must be some other rule about which sizes/depths
must be in there and which are optional |
| 21:00.40 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 21:00.55 |
smallfoot- |
where you got
uninstall icon from? |
| 21:03.22 |
brlcad |
i just made
it |
| 21:05.44 |
smallfoot- |
okay it works
now |
| 21:06.00 |
smallfoot- |
but the
installer needs some tweaking |
| 21:06.03 |
brlcad |
hm, good to
know |
| 21:07.18 |
IriX64 |
smallfoot, if
you want that eagle icon, let me know how to get it to
you |
| 21:07.50 |
IriX64 |
e-mail comes
to mind |
| 21:09.13 |
brlcad |
eagle
icon? |
| 21:09.24 |
IriX64 |
look on my
blog |
| 21:09.51 |
brlcad |
eh, that's
the one already in the distro |
| 21:10.19 |
IriX64 |
whup sorry
then |
| 21:10.30 |
IriX64 |
didnt know he
already had it |
| 21:10.31 |
brlcad |
tis an ugly
logo :) |
| 21:10.42 |
IriX64 |
cmon, i kind
of like it |
| 21:10.55 |
brlcad |
i've looked
at it for too many years |
| 21:11.03 |
brlcad |
the colors
kill baby seals |
| 21:11.52 |
IriX64 |
heh change it
to green then |
| 21:12.10 |
brlcad |
it's an
option (and already done) |
| 21:12.23 |
brlcad |
but more
important to get the nsis installer working first, regardless of
the icon |
| 21:12.36 |
IriX64 |
true sorry
for intruding |
| 21:12.40 |
brlcad |
the moss
world one should do just fine for that |
| 21:13.50 |
IriX64 |
that the one
thats on the ftp? |
| 21:14.08 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 21:14.30 |
IriX64 |
that is also
nice |
| 21:14.56 |
brlcad |
really
shouldn't have text, since the icon has it's own label |
| 21:15.02 |
brlcad |
but oh
well |
| 21:15.04 |
IriX64 |
ill have to
blow it up to get a better look just a sec... |
| 21:15.48 |
dli |
how do I
specify system tcl tk libraries for configure? |
| 21:17.26 |
IriX64 |
brlcad that
dir is no longer there? |
| 21:17.55 |
IriX64 |
ah i see tmp
oh well |
| 21:27.17 |
smallfoot- |
the uninstall
icon doesnt look like an uninstall icon on 16x16 |
| 21:31.21 |
IriX64 |
heh 41
minutes to build it i'll install this and shut up now |
| 21:32.57 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
yes, I know |
| 21:33.21 |
brlcad |
neither icon
is what I'd consider good or done, but it'll placehold for
now |
| 21:38.40 |
smallfoot- |
i can use
default NSIS icons |
| 21:38.42 |
smallfoot- |
they look
nice |
| 21:38.45 |
smallfoot- |
i should use
default? |
| 21:39.12 |
deltazap |
the install
icon could be 'in' and the uninstall icon could be just
'Z' |
| 21:40.25 |
smallfoot- |
deltazap,
what? |
| 21:42.01 |
deltazap |
strained mged
joke ;) |
| 21:42.10 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 21:42.25 |
smallfoot- |
okie, i dont
that, im a noob |
| 21:42.57 |
smallfoot- |
the
installation routine seems to work fine |
| 21:43.05 |
smallfoot- |
but the
uninstallation needs some tweaking |
| 21:43.15 |
smallfoot- |
there seems
to be no recursive deletion |
| 21:43.32 |
smallfoot- |
i hope there
is a way so i dont have to manually tell it each directory to
delete |
| 21:45.24 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.01 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/440238
<-- pardon the instrusion, this is at a C:\ prompt |
| 21:49.01 |
smallfoot- |
bjorkBSD, /r
works at File (for install), but /r dont work for
"Delete" |
| 21:49.38 |
bjorkBSD |
dos? |
| 21:49.55 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64 uses
dos too, smallfoot-. |
| 21:50.02 |
bjorkBSD |
i think it's
dos3.11 :) |
| 21:50.22 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 21:50.30 |
IriX64 |
frame buffer
is up man |
| 21:51.42 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/440241
have a peek :) |
| 21:52.00 |
IriX64 |
ill shut up
now, poof :) |
| 21:52.09 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
heh |
| 21:52.11 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: |
| 21:52.11 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
initial brlcad-config script template that, similar to pkg-config,
can report on |
| 21:52.11 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
various cflags/cppflags and libs/ldflags for 3rd-party developers
to use for |
| 21:52.11 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
linking against brl-cad's various libraries individually or
collectively. could |
| 21:52.11 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
undoubtedly use some more work and additional features like
reporting on other |
| 21:52.13 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
various configure-time and compile-time options that get used for a
given build, |
| 21:52.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD: but
this should get the ball rolling. |
| 21:52.31 |
brlcad |
in and kill,
actually :) |
| 21:52.42 |
brlcad |
otherwise e
and Z ;) |
| 21:53.50 |
smallfoot- |
brlcad, i can
use deafult NSIS icons, they look nice, should I use
default? |
| 21:54.33 |
brlcad |
whatever you
think looks best for starters .. but leave the others stubbed in
the .nsis file so it can be set/changed later if it requires some
edit |
| 21:56.00 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/fb.pc.in: should have libm for
libbu |
| 21:56.37 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the brlcad-config script
during configure |
| 21:57.08 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: install the brlcad-config
script into the script/bin directory, include along with the
distribution. include and install the manpage for it
too. |
| 21:59.50 |
IriX64 |
what should i
draw? :) |
| 22:00.33 |
smallfoot- |
computar |
| 22:04.00 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
<---- about=good work sean whoever you are |
| 22:04.25 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/history.txt: include a big ol disclaimer
that this isn't a write-up, it's just old notes being kept for
reference for a future writeup |
| 22:04.26 |
smallfoot- |
brlcad, only
icon names need be change,d the .nsi file dont need be
touche |
| 22:04.59 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
sounds good then |
| 22:05.24 |
smallfoot- |
i just cant
decide wether to use current icons or the NSIS default
ones |
| 22:06.52 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added a brlcad-config configuration
script |
| 22:08.32 |
smallfoot- |
NSIS takes
like <10mb |
| 22:08.36 |
smallfoot- |
old installer
took 15mb lol |
| 22:08.43 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
use the current .. it'll motivate me to clean them up come time to
release |
| 22:08.52 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged should now correctly find its
resources if you turn off tcl/tk |
| 22:08.58 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 22:09.11 |
brlcad |
unless you
want to stab at making some nice icons too |
| 22:10.33 |
smallfoot- |
okay, iguess
the libraries shoudlnt be optional lol |
| 22:10.39 |
smallfoot- |
since it
doesnt run without them |
| 22:11.08 |
brlcad |
the libraries
aren't but the developer headers would be |
| 22:11.27 |
brlcad |
and various
developer libraries |
| 22:12.51 |
smallfoot- |
lib\ is
needed |
| 22:13.22 |
brlcad |
yep, at least
portions |
| 22:13.33 |
brlcad |
mged has to
find it's run-time libraries |
| 22:13.42 |
smallfoot- |
ya, so i dont
make \lib optional? |
| 22:13.47 |
brlcad |
we're talking
about two separate things, or your misunderstanding |
| 22:14.01 |
brlcad |
no, \lib
doesn't become optional |
| 22:14.08 |
smallfoot- |
ok, it was
optional, i change so it isnt |
| 22:14.22 |
smallfoot- |
ill keep
includes\ optional ? |
| 22:14.31 |
brlcad |
there are
additional things that will ultimately go into the windows
installer (that are not currently a part of the
installer) |
| 22:14.39 |
brlcad |
sure, keep
includes optional |
| 22:14.56 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 22:18.31 |
smallfoot- |
I had "Doc\"
optional, but Archer doesnt run without Doc\ :( |
| 22:18.54 |
smallfoot- |
so what
should i do? |
| 22:20.55 |
IriX64 |
brl-cad just
came of age (check blog for dosshot1 and dosshot2) |
| 22:21.21 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
that's because there's stuff in Doc that doesn't belong
there |
| 22:21.28 |
brlcad |
just make it
non-optional for now |
| 22:22.12 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 22:22.14 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 22:24.16 |
smallfoot- |
i believe it
to be kinda done now... |
| 22:25.25 |
smallfoot- |
so what
should i do? |
| 22:25.28 |
smallfoot- |
do you have a
windows box? |
| 22:25.42 |
smallfoot- |
we roll out
this for 7.8.0 or we wait until 7.10.2 ? |
| 22:26.09 |
brlcad |
7. |
| 22:26.18 |
brlcad |
7.8.0 is long
dead :) |
| 22:26.32 |
brlcad |
i do have a
windows partition somewhere available to test |
| 22:26.40 |
brlcad |
i'd like to
get the nsis setup into CVS |
| 22:26.56 |
smallfoot- |
i can send it
to you, and you put it in CVS? |
| 22:27.05 |
brlcad |
yeah, that'll
work |
| 22:27.14 |
smallfoot- |
you use .7z
? |
| 22:27.59 |
brlcad |
p7zip? |
| 22:28.05 |
smallfoot- |
7-Zip |
| 22:28.07 |
brlcad |
i can install
it if needed |
| 22:28.10 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 22:28.15 |
smallfoot- |
well, i can
send whatever you need |
| 22:28.19 |
smallfoot- |
which format
you want it in? |
| 22:28.25 |
brlcad |
whatever
really |
| 22:28.29 |
smallfoot- |
zip
works? |
| 22:28.47 |
smallfoot- |
do you want
the 10 mb binary too? |
| 22:28.58 |
brlcad |
probably not,
but upload that too |
| 22:29.00 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 22:29.06 |
brlcad |
just
separately |
| 22:29.10 |
smallfoot- |
ah
okie |
| 22:29.17 |
smallfoot- |
i can send
them over IRC to you? |
| 22:29.20 |
brlcad |
anonymous ftp
to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming |
| 22:29.20 |
smallfoot- |
or how you
want them? |
| 22:29.24 |
smallfoot- |
oh,
okie |
| 22:29.37 |
smallfoot- |
then i dont
need zip them |
| 22:29.44 |
smallfoot- |
ill zip them
anyways lol |
| 22:31.47 |
smallfoot- |
okay, its
uploaded |
| 22:31.59 |
smallfoot- |
brlcad-7.8.0.exe is the binary installer,
you can make your own if you want |
| 22:32.18 |
smallfoot- |
nsis.zip is
the artwork, icons, brlcad.nsi install script, etc |
| 22:33.31 |
smallfoot- |
you extract
the nsis.zip file into brl-cad\nsis\, so there is an nsis directory
in the same place as the bin, lib, includes, samples, doc
directories |
| 22:35.13 |
smallfoot- |
i've tested
it some, and it seems work good on my computer, but please read the
brl-cad.nsi file so you can see what it does, and preferably run it
on a computer where you have backup of stuff, cuz i dont wanna be
the dumbass noob who wrecked it all for any of you lol |
| 22:36.15 |
smallfoot- |
this is my
first time i touched NSIS |
| 22:47.01 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
cool! |
| 22:47.49 |
smallfoot- |
works
good? |
| 22:47.51 |
smallfoot- |
nice
:) |
| 22:48.30 |
smallfoot- |
you managed
to compile the .nsi into a setup? use the latest version of NSIS
2.25 |
| 22:50.08 |
brlcad |
still looking
through the files |
| 22:51.51 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 22:53.08 |
smallfoot- |
try uninstall
too |
| 22:53.28 |
smallfoot- |
the
uninstaller uses some scary RMDir /r (recursive) |
| 22:53.34 |
smallfoot- |
not
me |
| 22:53.41 |
brlcad |
i know it
wasn't you :) |
| 22:53.43 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 22:53.51 |
brlcad |
month and a
half ago |
| 23:14.57 |
brlcad |
~smallfoot-++ |
| 23:15.02 |
brlcad |
that is f'ing
sweet |
| 23:15.12 |
smallfoot- |
thanks
:) |
| 23:15.13 |
smallfoot- |
cool |
| 23:15.16 |
brlcad |
way
cool |
| 23:15.18 |
smallfoot- |
so its in CVS
yet? :) |
| 23:15.55 |
smallfoot- |
let some
other developer check it out too, so that we can be sure it works
as intended |
| 23:19.24 |
brlcad |
there's some
minor little details to clean up like files names and things that
have changed since 7.8 but it's looking great |
| 23:19.32 |
brlcad |
and is just
*way* nicer than the installshield |
| 23:20.29 |
smallfoot- |
ya, it
is |
| 23:20.31 |
smallfoot- |
i hate
installshield |
| 23:20.42 |
smallfoot- |
installshield
put stuff in Windows\ too |
| 23:21.20 |
smallfoot- |
also, file
size reduces by a third of what it was |
| 23:21.33 |
brlcad |
if you don't
mind your real name getting listed and posted throughout the net,
I'd like to credit you properly |
| 23:21.40 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 23:21.49 |
smallfoot- |
first and
last name? |
| 23:21.55 |
brlcad |
whatever
you'd like it to say |
| 23:21.57 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 23:22.29 |
smallfoot- |
but dont
write smallfoot :D |
| 23:22.34 |
brlcad |
haha |
| 23:22.42 |
brlcad |
only in the
cvs commit messages :) |
| 23:22.49 |
smallfoot- |
no, not
smallfoot lol |
| 23:22.59 |
brlcad |
else can't
backtrack :) |
| 23:23.13 |
smallfoot- |
whats
that? |
| 23:23.51 |
brlcad |
someone
reviewing the history |
| 23:23.57 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 23:24.04 |
smallfoot- |
cant you just
write brlcad or jonathan? |
| 23:24.12 |
smallfoot- |
or
"anonymous" or something |
| 23:24.31 |
brlcad |
i'll write
whatever you want, i'm referring to two different
things |
| 23:24.38 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 23:24.46 |
smallfoot- |
ya, on the
backtrack |
| 23:24.53 |
brlcad |
one is the
credit and news items that will get distributed .. that'd be your
real name |
| 23:24.57 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 23:25.21 |
brlcad |
the other is
the cvs commit message that is only read by other devs, where I'd
ideally list both at least once |
| 23:25.28 |
brlcad |
so we have a
tie to whom it is |
| 23:25.31 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 23:25.39 |
smallfoot- |
but people
will laugh at me if it says smallfoot :( |
| 23:25.45 |
smallfoot- |
i rather it
not say smallfoot lol |
| 23:25.53 |
brlcad |
nah, they
wouldn't |
| 23:25.56 |
brlcad |
but that's
find |
| 23:25.56 |
smallfoot- |
ok |
| 23:26.02 |
brlcad |
i'll just put
"the foot guy" |
| 23:26.05 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 23:26.12 |
smallfoot- |
cant it be
"anonymous" or "jonathan" ? |
| 23:26.34 |
smallfoot- |
if not, then
put whatever you want, it really dont matter that much
lol |
| 23:26.45 |
brlcad |
heh, it could
be .. yeah, it just doesn't matter |
| 23:26.53 |
brlcad |
it's only
read by other devs reviewing history |
| 23:27.00 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 23:27.06 |
brlcad |
but that's
fine, i'll put jonathan |
| 23:27.10 |
smallfoot- |
okie,
cool |
| 23:27.12 |
smallfoot- |
thanks, that
be great |
| 23:27.15 |
brlcad |
but more
important is what to put for the news |
| 23:27.19 |
smallfoot- |
yeah |
| 23:28.12 |
smallfoot- |
where will my
name show? website? |
| 23:28.16 |
smallfoot- |
i gonna show
my bro and brag :D |
| 23:29.17 |
IriX64 |
not too
shabby, it works with X-Win32 too ``Erik :) |
| 23:29.38 |
IriX64 |
lemme try a
shot |
| 23:29.39 |
brlcad |
smallfoot-:
it'll show up all over the place |
| 23:29.53 |
brlcad |
it'll be
forever in brl-cad's sources too |
| 23:29.55 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/ (6 files): initial import of a
superb nsis installer for BRL-CAD, provided by jonathan |
| 23:30.10 |
smallfoot- |
cool
:d |
| 23:30.25 |
brlcad |
when full
binary distributions are put together, announcements are sent out
to various websites and news channels |
| 23:30.41 |
brlcad |
it ends up
getting replicated several dozens of times over |
| 23:31.24 |
brlcad |
aside from
just being permanently credited in brl-cad's history and authorship
files |
| 23:32.06 |
IriX64 |
font is huge,
but it works |
| 23:32.08 |
smallfoot- |
cool |
| 23:32.10 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 23:32.11 |
brlcad |
so, going to
tell your name? |
| 23:32.14 |
smallfoot- |
i
did |
| 23:32.16 |
smallfoot- |
in
notice |
| 23:32.23 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 23:32.25 |
smallfoot- |
just did
again |
| 23:32.25 |
smallfoot- |
saw? |
| 23:32.25 |
brlcad |
didn't notice
:) |
| 23:32.29 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 23:32.30 |
brlcad |
got
it |
| 23:32.31 |
smallfoot- |
okie,
good |
| 23:32.36 |
smallfoot- |
you didnt
notice the /notice lol |
| 23:33.06 |
brlcad |
i think
you're maybe the second person in about three years to use
notice |
| 23:33.44 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 23:33.54 |
smallfoot- |
ya, it
actually isnt used very much |
| 23:34.06 |
smallfoot- |
my friend
occasionally notice floods me to get my attention
though |
| 23:36.50 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 23:37.04 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
<---- with X-win32 :) |
| 23:37.23 |
smallfoot- |
X-Win32 =
proprietary software |
| 23:37.25 |
smallfoot- |
aeeeeeh |
| 23:37.41 |
IriX64 |
just testing,
should work with any xserver |
| 23:37.49 |
IriX64 |
works with
xming too |
| 23:37.55 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 23:38.30 |
IriX64 |
unix rides
the windows wave & word to your mother ;) |
| 23:39.09 |
smallfoot- |
lol |
| 23:39.16 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 23:41.45 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (AUTHORS NEWS): credit Jonathan Bonomo for the
outstanding new BRL-CAD installer for Windows using NSIS. a huge
improvement over the installshield horror, thanks! |
| 23:41.47 |
brlcad |
there will be
a write-up with better detail when the next windows binary is
posted |
| 23:44.20 |
smallfoot- |
okie |
| 23:45.44 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/440358
<---- heh gave it something to do, i'll shut up again
:) |
| 23:45.59 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 23:46.41 |
brlcad |
that you
did |
| 23:46.50 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: special thanks to bonomo
for the new windows installer |
| 23:46.59 |
smallfoot- |
Size:
9.96107e+07mm -eek- |
| 23:47.31 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:48.37 |
brlcad |
IriX64: you
should try compiling with CFLAGS=-DBSD .. see if that makes the
"bu_nice_set() SysV error: wanted nice 10! check bias=0" error go
away |
| 23:48.47 |
brlcad |
if it does, I
can put in a fix |
| 23:48.56 |
brlcad |
if it fails
to compile, I can put in a fix |
| 23:49.12 |
IriX64 |
ty ill try
it |
| 23:49.26 |
IriX64 |
may take a
while tho :) |
| 23:51.13 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 23:55.38 |
brlcad |
IriX64: never
mind, I have a fix already |
| 23:55.45 |
brlcad |
just getting
rid of that old sysv code |
| 23:55.57 |
IriX64 |
was just
configuring, you sure? |
| 23:56.07 |
IriX64 |
ok
then |
| 23:56.16 |
brlcad |
yeah, thanks
though |
| 23:56.20 |
IriX64 |
sure |
| 23:56.25 |
brlcad |
this should
make that warning go away |
| 23:56.32 |
IriX64 |
good |
| 23:56.52 |
IriX64 |
still works
though it seems benign here |
| 23:59.25 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: restructure bu_nice_set()
so we don't get an error (seen at least under cygwin/mingw) about
'SysV error: wanted nice 10! check bias=0' .. getting rid of the
obsoleted sysv code that used nice() to try to set a
value. |
| 23:59.43 |
brlcad |
it is
benign |
| 23:59.45 |
brlcad |
just
annoying |
| 00:00.22 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for setpriority for
src/libbu/parallel.c in bu_nice_set() |
| 00:38.51 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
<--- moonlight shot rendered on xwin32 :) |
| 00:40.08 |
IriX64 |
heh you do it
i'm busy with 7.10 ;) |
| 00:40.23 |
brlcad |
i just might
:P |
| 00:40.39 |
IriX64 |
give me a
copy when you get it done :) |
| 00:44.23 |
IriX64 |
haha xwin32
takes screen shots too, bonus, i might buy that thing |
| 00:49.51 |
``Erik |
or a big
sphere |
| 00:51.34 |
IriX64 |
yellow
;) |
| 00:53.00 |
IriX64 |
``Erik look
for ],, in configure.ac (the x11 link functionality part i
think) |
| 00:53.31 |
``Erik |
um,
why? |
| 00:54.03 |
IriX64 |
my x11
support isnt there and don't tell me i don't have x11
:) |
| 00:55.47 |
``Erik |
um, that's
testing for link ability, after the header has been
found |
| 00:56.02 |
``Erik |
check your
config.log for why it's unable to check the X libs |
| 00:56.19 |
IriX64 |
ok
ty |
| 00:57.11 |
IriX64 |
thought
acchecklib checked the libs |
| 00:58.29 |
IriX64 |
the jove
thing has already been reported i take it? |
| 01:02.34 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 01:02.53 |
brlcad |
IriX64: this
would be a great time to learn CVS and work from the latest CVS
sources |
| 01:03.04 |
brlcad |
so that
changes can be immediately applied and retested |
| 01:03.29 |
brlcad |
didn't matter
before relase, but now it would help |
| 01:04.36 |
IriX64 |
ill think
about it had a horrible experience with cvs don't want it repeated
(guy hacked his way in using my ip and deleted most of the project,
I swore off cvs after that) |
| 01:06.35 |
brlcad |
ehm, that
would only be if you were running a cvs server |
| 01:06.57 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
you're going to be looking at problems that have already been fixed
again |
| 01:10.23 |
``Erik |
um, using
your ip? O.o like a MiM attack, or? o.O (and since you'll only have
read access to the repo, like everyone else in the world does,
there's no risk, right?) |
| 01:10.33 |
IriX64 |
ok ill take
the sourcefoge tutorial and set up a client |
| 01:13.24 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/Makefile.am: initial makefile
template for nsis files, add files to the dist |
| 01:14.10 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac misc/Makefile.am): generate nsis
Makefile, traverse into it |
| 01:14.19 |
brlcad |
the new nsis
installer is pretty sweet |
| 01:14.30 |
brlcad |
gonna have to
one-up it on os x |
| 01:17.45 |
``Erik |
nsis as in
nullsoft? |
| 01:22.54 |
joevalleyfield |
only way to
one up it is to make bloody aqua work ;) |
| 01:23.00 |
IriX64 |
well rsync
seems to be working, will that do? |
| 01:24.41 |
joevalleyfield |
irix, rsync
for what? |
| 01:24.56 |
IriX64 |
getting the
latest brlcad sources |
| 01:25.10 |
IriX64 |
sourceforge
supports it |
| 01:25.27 |
joevalleyfield |
let me go
read about that |
| 01:25.41 |
IriX64 |
all
right |
| 01:25.44 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:26.03 |
joevalleyfield |
actually,
could you give me a link? |
| 01:27.02 |
joevalleyfield |
wow |
| 01:27.06 |
joevalleyfield |
that's
magical |
| 01:27.48 |
joevalleyfield |
for a
non-committer who is on irc here, that is probably
ideal |
| 01:28.35 |
IriX64 |
http://sourceforge.net/docs/E04/en/#viewcvs |
| 01:28.48 |
IriX64 |
yeah |
| 01:31.23 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/440464
<---- bottom of the paste what the farkle is yes/lib
:) |
| 01:31.51 |
IriX64 |
just noticed
it don't know where it first happened |
| 01:33.55 |
IriX64 |
rsync needs a
progress indicator :) |
| 01:34.42 |
joevalleyfield |
--progress
? |
| 01:34.55 |
IriX64 |
too late
:) |
| 01:39.09 |
``Erik |
why do you
need a progess indictor? go do, y'know, something else...
*shrug* |
| 01:40.00 |
IriX64 |
heh im
playing with the source tarball does that qualify as something
:) |
| 01:40.40 |
IriX64 |
that yes lib
is probably my fault mea culpa |
| 01:45.03 |
IriX64 |
what platform
has 7.10.0 successfully been built on? |
| 01:46.15 |
brlcad |
wow, didn't
know there was rsync access added myself |
| 01:46.36 |
joevalleyfield |
brlcad, you
could use that to back the thing up |
| 01:48.00 |
brlcad |
i do for the
cvsroot |
| 01:48.07 |
brlcad |
just didn't
know there was user-level |
| 01:48.43 |
brlcad |
or is it the
root he's syncing out.. heh |
| 01:49.23 |
IriX64 |
sourceforge
says you can *extract that way |
| 01:52.02 |
joevalleyfield |
it is whole
lot easier to strip X out this time than it was a year and a half
ago |
| 01:55.38 |
IriX64 |
somebody
already did it for you, it doesn't build :P |
| 01:58.23 |
IriX64 |
found X, it
was hiding behind W ;) |
| 02:11.11 |
joevalleyfield |
irix, what
platform are you on? |
| 02:11.40 |
IriX64 |
no secret
cygwin on windows xp+ |
| 02:11.50 |
joevalleyfield |
ok |
| 02:11.57 |
IriX64 |
err pro not
+ |
| 02:13.24 |
IriX64 |
amd model
3800+ cpu |
| 02:14.33 |
IriX64 |
does
everything i want it to shrug |
| 02:16.55 |
joevalleyfield |
i've never
built on cygwin |
| 02:17.29 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad
pix no 72 some of the things its currently doing |
| 02:18.24 |
IriX64 |
i've probably
never built on what your running:) |
| 02:18.39 |
joevalleyfield |
:) |
| 02:18.44 |
joevalleyfield |
mac |
| 02:18.53 |
IriX64 |
as i said
:) |
| 02:20.29 |
IriX64 |
runs irssi
too but i prefer to just click on a url in the channel window and
auto go there |
| 02:28.29 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 02:34.41 |
IriX64 |
rsync pulling
source now neat |
| 02:34.54 |
IriX64 |
might stay up
tonight :) |
| 02:48.55 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: condense the commercial support
information, but credit SURVICE Engineering accordingly instead of
the focus on SURVIAC |
| 02:51.35 |
IriX64 |
the blog has
a cygwin build of 7.8.4 running on the windows desktop, xwin32 is
pretty good... seamless xwindows |
| 03:02.06 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Obtain.html: stray reference
to the old address though it doesn't meantion the old agreement.
replace with the same info from README |
| 03:21.40 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (photonmap.c sh_plastic.c):
removed the spaced out pointer dereference format
inconsistencies |
| 03:25.23 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (photonmap.c sh_plastic.c):
ws |
| 03:39.55 |
deltazap |
IriX64: irssi
is the only irc client, really |
| 03:40.09 |
deltazap |
it's the only
one worth talking about ;) |
| 03:40.16 |
IriX64 |
how bout
bitchX ;) |
| 03:41.16 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: use libbu memory
management.. there's a bug in here somewhere where a right tree
node becomes non-null invalid. also seems to be a massive amount of
leakage going on .. stuff not getting free'd.. |
| 03:42.18 |
IriX64 |
deltazap:
practice what you preach :P |
| 03:44.30 |
deltazap |
4i4r7s7s5i
8i8s 9t3h3e 10b11e11s12t 2c2l6i6e4n4t 7h5a5n8d8s 9d3o3w10n
11:11P |
| 03:45.00 |
IriX64 |
thats kick
material :) |
| 03:45.20 |
bjorkBSD |
whoa i just
saw colors! |
| 03:45.21 |
deltazap |
haha, but
it's one line :P |
| 03:46.21 |
deltazap |
if i had been
spamming figlet or cowsay, then it would be
controversial |
| 03:46.53 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: missed a realloc,
use calloc where we need it be zero |
| 03:48.14 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: crashes during photonmap raytrace of m35
where right node is invalid |
| 03:48.54 |
brlcad |
~colortest |
| 03:48.55 |
ibot |
2c3o4l5o6r7t8e9s10t |
| 03:49.28 |
deltazap |
haha |
| 03:50.13 |
deltazap |
brlcad: when
ever you need testing on your installer for osx, i'm there
;) |
| 03:50.21 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 03:50.41 |
deltazap |
and for ruby.
i love me some ruby |
| 03:50.52 |
brlcad |
I want to get
it to just a drag and drop that has just the "unified environment"
new interface |
| 03:51.10 |
brlcad |
else a folder
that has mged, archer, and a shell in the meantime |
| 03:51.34 |
brlcad |
instead of
the installer that it uses now |
| 03:51.39 |
deltazap |
yeah, i don't
thin kthat will work if you normally need admin access in order to
install into /usr |
| 03:52.07 |
brlcad |
yeah, it
wouldn't install into /usr as a drag n' drop |
| 03:53.39 |
brlcad |
IriX64: for
what it's worth, you're pulling the entire history of
BRL-CAD |
| 03:53.47 |
brlcad |
not just a
checkout that will compile |
| 03:53.57 |
brlcad |
you'll still
have to pull a "checkout" from what you're downloading |
| 03:54.40 |
IriX64 |
can't work
from that dir? |
| 03:54.56 |
brlcad |
cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
login |
| 03:55.00 |
brlcad |
cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
checkout -P brlcad |
| 03:55.05 |
IriX64 |
next rsync
run i should be able to pull just new/changed files |
| 03:55.10 |
brlcad |
those two
will get you a current checkout |
| 03:55.31 |
brlcad |
rsync is
pulling the *entire* source history -- the cvs root, not a cvs
checkout |
| 03:55.48 |
IriX64 |
you keep all
that there? |
| 03:56.06 |
IriX64 |
ill wait and
see what ive got |
| 03:56.17 |
brlcad |
you could
still use what you get |
| 03:56.40 |
brlcad |
you're just
getting about 20 times more data than you need or will
want |
| 03:56.48 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 03:56.58 |
brlcad |
i.e. you're
downloading every version of BRL-CAD that has ever
existed |
| 03:57.31 |
brlcad |
all versions
in each file, not neatly sorted out -- in CVS/RCS format, not in a
compilable format |
| 03:57.44 |
IriX64 |
well im a
history buff :) |
| 03:58.10 |
deltazap |
IriX64: ok,
ready? |
| 03:58.21 |
IriX64 |
for? |
| 03:58.58 |
deltazap |
On feb 20,
2003, what version of brlcad was available and what state was it
in. Please respond in a 5 paragraph format. |
| 03:59.02 |
deltazap |
:O |
| 03:59.03 |
deltazap |
:P |
| 03:59.05 |
brlcad |
just note
that it won't be anything that you'll be able to compile directly,
you'll still have to do a checkout -- not hard either, just cvs -d
path_to_what_you_rsync checkout -P brlcad |
| 03:59.22 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 03:59.30 |
IriX64 |
trying
cvs |
| 03:59.38 |
brlcad |
still
probably easier to use the two cvs commands above :) |
| 04:01.22 |
IriX64 |
cvs
password? |
| 04:01.29 |
brlcad |
o
password |
| 04:01.31 |
brlcad |
*no |
| 04:01.50 |
brlcad |
just hit
enter |
| 04:04.09 |
IriX64 |
got it but
ill never remebr those commands :) |
| 04:04.27 |
IriX64 |
ill stop
rsync |
| 04:05.46 |
IriX64 |
my fav just
went by...havoc.asc |
| 04:05.50 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 04:06.19 |
brlcad |
ibot: cadcvs
is <reply>To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
&& cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
checkout -P brlcad |
| 04:06.21 |
ibot |
okay,
brlcad |
| 04:06.26 |
brlcad |
~cadcvs |
| 04:06.28 |
ibot |
To obtain
BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
&& cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
checkout -P brlcad |
| 04:07.29 |
IriX64 |
ty
filed |
| 04:14.51 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-69-255-112-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:23.07 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/440612
< -- 7.10.0 sourcetarball at work :) |
| 04:24.47 |
IriX64 |
too many
hoops to go thru to build it again :) |
| 04:26.31 |
IriX64 |
so next
checkout with the same switches will get me just the changed
files? |
| 04:28.23 |
IriX64 |
how do you
want me to proceed? start from autogen.sh or just configure
it? |
| 04:48.40 |
IriX64 |
heh that was
easy, no configure :) so ill autogen |
| 04:49.02 |
IriX64 |
now ill shut
up lessn i have something to say. |
| 05:41.55 |
brlcad |
you don't
need to checkout again, you can actually stay directly in sync with
the latest |
| 05:42.07 |
brlcad |
just run "cvs
update" in the brlcad directory that you checked out |
| 05:43.48 |
brlcad |
it'll update
to the latest source every time you update, barring any conflicts
that occur from an edit you might make |
| 08:16.12 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:19.35 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.173.88) |
| 10:49.42 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.114.180) |
| 12:25.59 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:16.24 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 13:16.29 |
smallfoot- |
back |
| 13:17.26 |
brlcad |
toes |
| 13:18.43 |
smallfoot- |
whats
up? |
| 13:19.37 |
smallfoot- |
from
Wikipedia "The user interface is rather anachronistic, more typical
of the 80's than the beginning of 21st century. It is hardly usable
for an occasional user." |
| 13:22.08 |
smallfoot- |
i wish there
was some CAD that was rediculously simple |
| 13:22.13 |
smallfoot- |
and
rediculously easy to use |
| 13:22.20 |
smallfoot- |
so i could
use it without RTFM |
| 13:22.49 |
docelic |
smallfoot-:
well, we can save you the time by bringing you back to reallity
really fast. |
| 13:22.54 |
docelic |
There is no
such CAD ;-) |
| 13:24.43 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 13:29.16 |
clock_ |
smallfoot-:
you can learn using BRL-CAD faster than what would take you to earn
money for buying a commercial CAD licence |
| 13:35.34 |
smallfoot- |
license??? |
| 13:47.31 |
docelic |
Hey folks how
come the binary releases are behind the source code on sf.net page?
You need help with building on various platforms ? |
| 13:48.10 |
brlcad |
docelic: an
understatement |
| 13:48.16 |
brlcad |
but
yes |
| 13:49.32 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 13:49.44 |
smallfoot- |
doesnt
sourceforge have some compile farm? |
| 13:50.22 |
docelic |
yes, but not
automated afaik |
| 13:50.37 |
brlcad |
actually,
they shut the compile farm down |
| 13:51.06 |
brlcad |
getting the
compilations themselves isn't generally too bad for any given
platform |
| 13:53.05 |
brlcad |
moreso the
number of platforms and packaging up the builds for some of those
systems is often a manual process |
| 13:53.19 |
brlcad |
there are
some scripts to automate the builds packagings, but they're
incomplete |
| 13:53.25 |
brlcad |
sh/make_*.sh |
| 13:53.39 |
brlcad |
tied to the
main Makefile so that there are build targets |
| 13:54.19 |
brlcad |
as well as
polish like consistently building to /usr/brlcad/rel-#.#.# with
symlinks in /usr/brlcad haven't been scripted yet
either |
| 13:55.43 |
smallfoot- |
http://archimedes.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/screenshots-2/fileMenu.gif/image_view_fullscreen
oh this looks nice |
| 14:20.58 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:09.40 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@213.147.110.16) |
| 15:24.01 |
brlcad |
woot, have
almost made vers.sh entirely obsolete |
| 16:28.27 |
*** join/#brlcad thomasgruebler
(n=557ca7f9@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:28.51 |
thomasgruebler |
hallo! |
| 16:30.11 |
thomasgruebler |
ich hab
brlcad auf debian installiert. jedoch weis ich nicht wie ich es
ausführen soll. es gibt da einen ordner wo sehr viele ausführbare
dateien von brlcad drinnen sind,aber alle durchzuprobieren würde
ewig dauern und keine der ausprobierten startete eine
gui |
| 16:31.17 |
bjorkBSD |
auf englisch
bitte: http://google.com/translate_t |
| 16:31.40 |
thomasgruebler |
hello |
| 16:31.46 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.47 |
thomasgruebler |
i hav
installed brlcad on debian. |
| 16:31.55 |
thomasgruebler |
but i don't
know how to start it |
| 16:31.59 |
bjorkBSD |
mged |
| 16:33.01 |
bjorkBSD |
that's far
shorter in english than it is in german. |
| 16:33.01 |
bjorkBSD |
very
curious. |
| 16:35.47 |
thomasgruebler |
i go to
reinstall it. |
| 16:36.00 |
thomasgruebler |
the newer
version |
| 16:39.45 |
thomasgruebler |
so |
| 16:39.51 |
thomasgruebler |
now i have
the newest version |
| 16:39.56 |
thomasgruebler |
but i cannot
start it |
| 16:40.05 |
thomasgruebler |
mged is not
possible |
| 16:40.42 |
bjorkBSD |
why
not? |
| 16:40.47 |
bjorkBSD |
it's how i've
always started it... |
| 16:41.00 |
thomasgruebler |
command not
found |
| 16:41.05 |
bjorkBSD |
are you using
tcsh? |
| 16:41.17 |
thomasgruebler |
bash |
| 16:41.25 |
bjorkBSD |
then it
should be in your path. |
| 16:41.53 |
bjorkBSD |
or maybe not
... |
| 16:41.55 |
thomasgruebler |
where is the
location of it? |
| 16:41.58 |
deltazap |
only if he's
added it to his path, or if the debian package adds it |
| 16:41.59 |
bjorkBSD |
mine's in
/urs/brlcad |
| 16:42.02 |
deltazap |
/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:42.13 |
bjorkBSD |
*/usr |
| 16:42.52 |
thomasgruebler |
now it's
working |
| 16:42.53 |
thomasgruebler |
thanks |
| 16:43.22 |
thomasgruebler |
it seems more
complicate than autocad |
| 16:44.38 |
thomasgruebler |
qhen i want
to create an elypsoidor soit writes: no database
opened. |
| 16:44.43 |
bjorkBSD |
it's not a
cad program. |
| 16:44.48 |
bjorkBSD |
as in,
2d-cad |
| 16:44.52 |
bjorkBSD |
it's a 3d cad
program. |
| 16:44.58 |
bjorkBSD |
cad/cae |
| 16:45.05 |
thomasgruebler |
thomasgruebler@SiduxG:~/install$
/usr/brlcad/bin/mgedInitializing and backgrounding, please
wait...libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual
0x4b |
| 16:45.17 |
thomasgruebler |
is written
when i start it from bash |
| 16:45.32 |
thomasgruebler |
i wanted an
3d cad programm |
| 16:45.39 |
bjorkBSD |
you found it
:) |
| 16:45.50 |
bjorkBSD |
using it is a
different matter. |
| 16:46.00 |
thomasgruebler |
the first in
Linux non cost. |
| 16:46.05 |
bjorkBSD |
there're
others. |
| 16:46.15 |
thomasgruebler |
which? |
| 16:46.22 |
bjorkBSD |
uhhh i
forget. |
| 16:46.27 |
thomasgruebler |
:) |
| 16:46.28 |
bjorkBSD |
i think it
starts with a b. |
| 16:46.43 |
bjorkBSD |
blender. |
| 16:46.45 |
bjorkBSD |
that's
right. |
| 16:47.06 |
thomasgruebler |
i know
this. |
| 16:47.19 |
thomasgruebler |
but it cannot
draw lines of spezial lenght |
| 16:47.30 |
bjorkBSD |
i bet it's a
user error. |
| 16:47.47 |
thomasgruebler |
no it's
real. |
| 16:47.51 |
docelic |
;-) |
| 16:47.55 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:48.03 |
thomasgruebler |
there are
tweaks to do it but it's mainly an animation programm |
| 16:48.19 |
thomasgruebler |
how can i
load an database in mged? |
| 16:49.15 |
bjorkBSD |
one day i
promise i'll write a decent intro tutorial |
| 16:49.21 |
bjorkBSD |
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/html/manuals |
| 16:50.38 |
thomasgruebler |
ok a database
is a file |
| 16:51.06 |
bjorkBSD |
think of
brlcad as you'd think of say, emacs. |
| 16:51.13 |
bjorkBSD |
lots of
really interesting ideas expressed :) |
| 16:51.26 |
thomasgruebler |
now i wanted
to make an prisma but i killed it |
| 16:51.56 |
thomasgruebler |
i need
something like autocad, proengineer. free for Linux |
| 16:52.17 |
deltazap |
this is the
closest thing to pro/e for free |
| 16:54.14 |
bjorkBSD |
thomasgruebler, you can make your own
pro/e :) |
| 16:54.20 |
bjorkBSD |
with
brlcad! |
| 16:54.33 |
thomasgruebler |
how? |
| 16:55.39 |
bjorkBSD |
well the
sources are open. |
| 16:55.50 |
bjorkBSD |
it's just a
matter of beating into a pro/e shape. |
| 16:55.55 |
bjorkBSD |
*it |
| 16:56.02 |
bjorkBSD |
got a hammer?
:D |
| 16:56.37 |
thomasgruebler |
:) |
| 16:57.07 |
thomasgruebler |
i know how to
programm a microcontroller in C but not how to programm brlcad. and
without any kde or gtk lib |
| 16:57.49 |
docelic |
For a man who
know how to programm a microcontroller in C. brlcad cannot be a
problem! |
| 16:58.17 |
bjorkBSD |
heheheh |
| 16:58.29 |
bjorkBSD |
think of
brlcad as a microcontroller ;) |
| 16:58.32 |
thomasgruebler |
i've never
programme somthing for pc. but i want to do |
| 16:58.54 |
thomasgruebler |
for
displaying data sent from the mikrocontroller |
| 16:58.56 |
bjorkBSD |
gut. macht
du! |
| 17:00.17 |
thomasgruebler |
jetzt bemüh
ich mich die ganze zeit umsonst englisch zu sprechen :) |
| 17:02.36 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:03.39 |
bjorkBSD |
aber ich
spreche nicht Deutsches. |
| 17:04.28 |
thomasgruebler |
so it's not
your mother language |
| 17:04.37 |
bjorkBSD |
ich hatte ein
schone deutsche madchen vor jahren. |
| 17:04.39 |
bjorkBSD |
nein. |
| 17:05.24 |
bjorkBSD |
no
habla. |
| 17:05.40 |
thomasgruebler |
:) |
| 17:06.22 |
bjorkBSD |
sie war
wunderbar |
| 17:06.56 |
bjorkBSD |
und ich var
ein schwein 8-| |
| 17:07.00 |
thomasgruebler |
wie alt bist
du? |
| 17:07.04 |
thomasgruebler |
warst du
da? |
| 17:07.42 |
bjorkBSD |
29 ... and a
half :) |
| 17:08.10 |
bjorkBSD |
Texas. |
| 17:08.35 |
thomasgruebler |
how can i
stop brlcad to turn my prisma? it turnsaround when i pressed
ctrl+Z |
| 17:09.29 |
thomasgruebler |
help |
| 17:10.08 |
bjorkBSD |
hilfe
:) |
| 17:10.28 |
bjorkBSD |
when in
doubt, turn it off and turn it back on ;-) |
| 17:10.29 |
thomasgruebler |
bitte hild
mir |
| 17:11.10 |
thomasgruebler |
how??? |
| 17:14.44 |
bjorkBSD |
hmm. i oughta
get version 7.10 |
| 17:14.53 |
bjorkBSD |
do you have
7.8.2 or the newest one? |
| 17:15.15 |
thomasgruebler |
the newest
deb from sf |
| 17:15.21 |
bjorkBSD |
ah |
| 17:15.24 |
thomasgruebler |
i killed the
application |
| 17:15.41 |
bjorkBSD |
there's no
getting around reading the manual on this one,
thomasgruebler. |
| 17:16.15 |
thomasgruebler |
i
see |
| 17:16.42 |
thomasgruebler |
but from
first view it looks good so i like it |
| 17:17.29 |
deltazap |
take your
time, read through intro to mged |
| 17:17.44 |
deltazap |
huh |
| 17:18.04 |
bjorkBSD |
EOF,
deltazap. |
| 17:18.22 |
*** join/#brlcad thomasgruebler
(n=557ca7f9@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:18.28 |
deltazap |
i thought you
could never run out of internet :P |
| 17:19.09 |
bjorkBSD |
hehe |
| 17:19.50 |
thomasgruebler |
i killed
firefox somehow |
| 17:19.59 |
thomasgruebler |
i don't know
how |
| 17:20.04 |
thomasgruebler |
it
neverhappened |
| 17:20.08 |
thomasgruebler |
bye. |
| 17:20.19 |
bjorkBSD |
EOF
thomasgruebler. |
| 17:20.33 |
deltazap |
apt-get
install irssi |
| 17:20.37 |
deltazap |
oh darn he
left |
| 17:20.39 |
bjorkBSD |
eek! |
| 17:20.45 |
bjorkBSD |
pkg_add -r
xchat2 |
| 17:21.40 |
bjorkBSD |
i need to
deep clean my german. |
| 17:21.50 |
bjorkBSD |
para la
allemande mamacitas |
| 17:58.24 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54875aba.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:31.12 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:34.03 |
IriX64 |
be vewy vewy
quiet, we're hunting tk files :) |
| 18:35.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54875aba.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:36.19 |
*** join/#brlcad zapp
(n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:36.39 |
zapp |
whoops,
kinda...uh...killed irssi there for a bit |
| 18:57.02 |
IriX64 |
anybody wanna
tacle a build related issue? |
| 18:57.07 |
IriX64 |
tackle
too |
| 19:41.01 |
*** join/#brlcad clock__
(i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:51.02 |
bjorkBSD |
BRL-CAD
Release 7.10.0, Build 20070415 |
| 19:51.02 |
bjorkBSD |
Elapsed
compilation time: 59 minutes, 12 seconds |
| 19:51.20 |
docelic |
which
plataform ? |
| 19:51.36 |
bjorkBSD |
my
computer. |
| 19:51.42 |
bjorkBSD |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.04 |
bjorkBSD |
it's a
freebsd x86 |
| 19:52.32 |
IriX64 |
pretty quick
if it only took an hour |
| 19:52.41 |
bjorkBSD |
CPU: Intel(R)
Celeron(R) CPU 2.20GHz (2193.53-MHz 686-class CPU) |
| 19:52.44 |
bjorkBSD |
it's a
celeron. |
| 19:54.49 |
IriX64 |
finally it
found tk8.4 |
| 19:54.54 |
IriX64 |
and
tcl |
| 20:02.36 |
IriX64 |
bjorkBSD did
you use the supplied tcl/tk libs? |
| 21:01.44 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64, it
was 8.5 wasn't it? |
| 21:01.47 |
bjorkBSD |
i believe i
did. |
| 21:01.54 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707276.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:07.36 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754332.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:17.37 |
IriX64 |
yes
thank |
| 21:18.10 |
IriX64 |
for me 8.5 is
fraught with peril :) |
| 21:19.03 |
IriX64 |
trying with
tcl84 :) |
| 21:19.13 |
IriX64 |
looking very
good so far |
| 21:20.05 |
IriX64 |
still timing
out louipc? |
| 21:21.24 |
louipc_ |
yeah I think
I'll have to call my ISP and bitch |
| 21:21.40 |
IriX64 |
sure its not
the server? |
| 21:21.48 |
louipc |
I'm back in
action though with a fresh install and a new hard-disk |
| 21:22.03 |
IriX64 |
hah back from
the wars eh? |
| 21:22.12 |
louipc |
yeap because
the little light on my modem indicates that the network is down on
the isp end |
| 21:22.31 |
louipc |
and I can't
access the internet in any way when it happens |
| 21:22.55 |
IriX64 |
call em tear
a strip off after all you're the customer :) |
| 21:24.16 |
IriX64 |
-ltcl84 gotta
love it :) |
| 21:25.16 |
IriX64 |
static link
but what the heck, whatever works :) |
| 21:26.03 |
louipc |
if brlcad is
the only thing you use it for, sure |
| 21:26.44 |
IriX64 |
huh its a
system lib, quite capable of non static linking |
| 21:27.10 |
IriX64 |
i mean brlcad
isd linking its stuff statically |
| 21:30.34 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754332.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:33.14 |
IriX64 |
lets try this
map thing, somebody throw out a function i should know nothing
about (don't be a smartypants and say main:)) |
| 21:41.55 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/441828
<=== map |
| 21:42.47 |
bjorkBSD |
should i
install tcl8.5 independently? |
| 21:50.25 |
IriX64 |
bjorkBSD if
that's aimed at me, I know nothing about fbsd so can't
comment |
| 21:56.55 |
louipc |
I'd say it's
a good idea to have it independently |
| 21:59.52 |
bjorkBSD |
okay. |
| 23:02.07 |
brlcad |
FAQ Tip of
the Day: pressing x, y, z, X, Y, Z in the graphics window will
send the model spinning.. you press 0 to stop the spin |
| 23:15.11 |
IriX64 |
model? or
drawing? |
| 23:18.37 |
bjorkBSD |
thingamagic |
| 23:21.36 |
IriX64 |
magically
bjorkBSD starts spinning :) |
| 23:21.54 |
IriX64 |
i pressed the
appropriate keys :) |
| 00:32.10 |
IriX64 |
louipc how
big a drive did you invesdt in if you don't mind my
asking? |
| 01:09.35 |
deltazap |
please tell
me i'm not the only one that found out about ctrl-z, then held it
down to see how fast i could get the wireframe spinning
:P |
| 01:10.20 |
IriX64 |
whats your
angle-distance cursor say :P |
| 01:37.22 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
heh, nope .. i still do that from time to time |
| 01:39.46 |
IriX64 |
some
standalones aren't going to work, they rely on
Tcl_CreateFileHandler and delete same |
| 01:43.47 |
IriX64 |
part of
dg_obj.c if i saw that right |
| 01:45.52 |
IriX64 |
in
librt |
| 02:06.58 |
IriX64 |
well doom was
fun..... gotta stop playing with that 386 dos machine
:) |
| 02:10.37 |
IriX64 |
stereo
compiless still going strong |
| 02:10.45 |
IriX64 |
- an
s |
| 02:11.44 |
IriX64 |
mmm opennurbs
is cpp ill have to browse later |
| 02:19.17 |
IriX64 |
the dgo_blah
stuff seems to rely on those tcl functions |
| 02:20.57 |
IriX64 |
bear in mind
thats the compile that uses my tcl84, the tcl85 compile is still
going on. |
| 02:28.41 |
bjorkBSD |
exactly how
slow is your machine, IriX64? |
| 02:32.43 |
IriX64 |
it crawls
along at 2.4g |
| 02:33.30 |
IriX64 |
which means
each compile is running at 1.2g right :P |
| 02:34.32 |
IriX64 |
each time you
or i type it slows to a crawl :) |
| 02:35.06 |
IriX64 |
a 32 minute
install o yowzers |
| 02:36.54 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/442222 |
| 02:46.42 |
louipc |
IriX64:
160GB |
| 02:47.01 |
``Erik |
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/172500/172821yfHE_w.jpg |
| 02:47.55 |
IriX64 |
``Erik i
didn't know you were at that party:) |
| 02:48.27 |
IriX64 |
louipc: i got
a deal on a 200GB maxtor |
| 02:48.53 |
louipc |
a maxtor is
what crashed on me :/ |
| 02:54.28 |
bjorkBSD |
deal from
where how much? |
| 02:54.56 |
louipc |
I got a
seagate for $79 |
| 03:12.30 |
IriX64 |
staples, $190
for the 200gigger |
| 03:13.39 |
louipc |
sata? |
| 03:13.53 |
IriX64 |
ide
udma100 |
| 03:14.50 |
louipc |
I guess
staples isn't that great for prices eh |
| 03:15.00 |
louipc |
I went to a
taiwanese computer shop |
| 03:15.03 |
louipc |
:D |
| 03:15.20 |
IriX64 |
don't have
such here :) |
| 03:18.24 |
Maloeran |
Sounds
expensive for 200gb, especially an UDMA100. Sounds like an old
drive |
| 03:20.25 |
Maloeran |
My 320gb were
the equivalent of 110USD or so |
| 03:20.49 |
IriX64 |
this was 2
years ago |
| 03:21.08 |
louipc |
nice |
| 03:21.30 |
Maloeran |
Ah right, two
years, that explains it |
| 03:22.10 |
louipc |
I'm starting
to get scared that the available hardware will outrun my computer
pretty soon |
| 03:23.06 |
Maloeran |
If what you
have satisfies your needs, why worry? |
| 03:23.07 |
IriX64 |
bwish is
needed by who? |
| 03:23.58 |
IriX64 |
Maloeran is
the computer comy in it's "seat" :P |
| 03:24.00 |
louipc |
because if
something goes wrong I won't be able to find replacement parts
haha |
| 03:24.05 |
louipc |
I'll need to
get a whole new system |
| 03:24.17 |
louipc |
but that'll
be fun as well |
| 03:24.27 |
IriX64 |
sometimes its
cheaper to louipc |
| 03:25.02 |
Maloeran |
Ah well, it's
rare that something goes "wrong" in a critical component such as
the motherboard |
| 03:25.47 |
IriX64 |
quite a few
critical parts though |
| 03:25.59 |
louipc |
that's
comforting to know. I can keep it as an antique hobby system when
the time comes |
| 03:26.11 |
IriX64 |
heh like my
386 |
| 03:26.42 |
IriX64 |
dx not
sx |
| 03:27.19 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64, don't
you like uhh unix? |
| 03:27.44 |
IriX64 |
i know
nothing about it and the learning curve is steep |
| 03:28.04 |
bjorkBSD |
it's as steep
as a level playing field ;) |
| 03:28.11 |
louipc |
IriX64: not
really that steep |
| 03:28.11 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 03:28.22 |
louipc |
especiall
now |
| 03:28.25 |
bjorkBSD |
i'm sure
you've used dos. |
| 03:28.31 |
bjorkBSD |
and it's
kinda fun. |
| 03:28.38 |
IriX64 |
dos !=
unix |
| 03:28.43 |
louipc |
well I can't
speak for BSD but linux is a lot better than it was 5 yrs
ago |
| 03:28.50 |
bjorkBSD |
eg: i think i
just hosed /usr/ports so now i have to figure out how to fix
it. |
| 03:28.59 |
deltazap |
IriX64:
learning curve is not that steep |
| 03:29.06 |
bjorkBSD |
oh trust me,
i quickly abandoned linux after first touching it. |
| 03:29.24 |
bjorkBSD |
then i was
introduced to freebsd. |
| 03:29.29 |
IriX64 |
been thinking
of a mac never really owned one before |
| 03:29.40 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64,
they're x86 boxes now. nothing to it. |
| 03:29.42 |
IriX64 |
thats OSX
right? |
| 03:29.55 |
deltazap |
correct |
| 03:30.07 |
IriX64 |
maybe for
X-mas |
| 03:30.21 |
IriX64 |
get it right
geez Christmas |
| 03:30.26 |
IriX64 |
+s |
| 03:30.35 |
louipc |
freebsd seems
to use the same installer it did ages ago... I don't get it
:P |
| 03:31.42 |
bjorkBSD |
louipc, why
break it if it works so well? |
| 03:31.58 |
louipc |
works like
ass for me |
| 03:32.16 |
bjorkBSD |
how? |
| 03:32.25 |
bjorkBSD |
what's
missing in your installation experience? |
| 03:32.36 |
bjorkBSD |
i HATE
redhat's. and debian i can barely stand. |
| 03:33.16 |
louipc |
I think it
tried to redefine my HDD cylinders, then during the install there
were a ton of errors saying it couldn't access a certain file it
needed installing from the CD |
| 03:33.36 |
bjorkBSD |
oh a bad
CD |
| 03:33.48 |
louipc |
nah it was
fine I checked it |
| 03:34.06 |
louipc |
actually I
did succeed on a third try or so |
| 03:34.20 |
bjorkBSD |
media
problems ;) |
| 03:34.41 |
IriX64 |
or drive
problems :) |
| 03:34.42 |
bjorkBSD |
the only time
i switched from freebsd to debian was when 5 came out |
| 03:34.58 |
louipc |
then I went
into the system and started up 'vi' which really bothered me. so I
said forget it hah |
| 03:35.12 |
louipc |
yeah I can't
really take those distros either |
| 03:35.40 |
louipc |
I would
endorse fbsd before I'd endorse debian or redhat |
| 03:35.47 |
Maloeran |
The first run
of 'vi' is always amusing for an Unix beginner. "Help! How do I get
out?" |
| 03:35.59 |
louipc |
Maloeran:
I've moved on to vim |
| 03:36.00 |
louipc |
;) |
| 03:36.22 |
IriX64 |
mc helps
me....a lot :) |
| 03:36.33 |
bjorkBSD |
it's even
more amusing with ed |
| 03:36.40 |
bjorkBSD |
'cause all ed
will tell you is '?' |
| 03:36.53 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 03:37.15 |
IriX64 |
fond memories
of edlin come to mind |
| 03:37.30 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64, see?
you're that much closer to a unix system ;) |
| 03:37.32 |
bjorkBSD |
give it a
try. |
| 03:37.39 |
IriX64 |
might |
| 03:37.43 |
bjorkBSD |
there're all
kinds of gui goodness(and slowness) going on with it. |
| 03:37.58 |
bjorkBSD |
AND unix has
had a gui far longer than the mac or pc has existed :D |
| 03:38.12 |
IriX64 |
will redhat
5.1 tolerate a 200gig disk? |
| 03:38.17 |
bjorkBSD |
eek! |
| 03:38.20 |
bjorkBSD |
don't say
that name :-S |
| 03:38.26 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 03:39.45 |
Maloeran |
Gentoo isn't
too bad for programmers who know Linux well, I would never
recommend that to an user |
| 03:40.37 |
louipc |
I figrue if
they're going to package old software it's going to be a PITA to
get recent stuff going |
| 03:41.21 |
louipc |
it might be
stable but I'm not running a server really... so I conclude fbsd is
good for servers uh not so much for desktops |
| 03:41.44 |
louipc |
don't all the
devs in here use macs as desktops? |
| 03:41.47 |
bjorkBSD |
louipc, i use
it as a desktop os |
| 03:42.00 |
bjorkBSD |
the only time
i switch to windows is to watch desperate housewives on
abc.com |
| 03:42.13 |
louipc |
why do you
need windows for it? |
| 03:42.26 |
bjorkBSD |
'cause it
uses flash9 |
| 03:42.40 |
louipc |
I got that in
linux |
| 03:42.45 |
bjorkBSD |
yeah i
know. |
| 03:42.52 |
bjorkBSD |
it's a little
while longer... |
| 03:43.12 |
bjorkBSD |
but for
everything else, freebsd does it for me. |
| 03:44.17 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64, you
could try ubuntu |
| 03:44.26 |
louipc |
bjorkBSD:
don't say that |
| 03:44.34 |
bjorkBSD |
it suckedARSE
on my machine for some reason, but it might work for
you. |
| 03:44.40 |
bjorkBSD |
hehehe |
| 03:45.03 |
IriX64 |
im not in an
experimenting mood vis vis os's |
| 03:45.10 |
louipc |
yeah gentoo
is decent but gets annoying after awhile having to compile
everything |
| 03:45.23 |
bjorkBSD |
i'm sure but
it might save you some compile hell no? :P |
| 03:45.38 |
louipc |
that's why I
switched to archlinux |
| 03:45.53 |
bjorkBSD |
what's it
based on? |
| 03:46.03 |
louipc |
nothing |
| 03:46.13 |
IriX64 |
this isn't
bad i figured a way out of #ifdef _WIN32 now to figure a way out of
#ifdef __CYGWIN__ |
| 03:46.39 |
louipc |
it takes
ideas from crux, and slackware, and perhaps from fbsd it's been
said |
| 03:48.14 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/442288
<--- that magic flag keeps it from setting win32
defines |
| 03:49.27 |
bjorkBSD |
don't know
crux |
| 03:49.42 |
bjorkBSD |
but zipslack
was my very very first *nix (tear) |
| 03:50.49 |
louipc |
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Compared_To_Other_Distros |
| 03:52.31 |
IriX64 |
quite a menu
to choose from |
| 03:54.36 |
Maloeran |
My first
Linux was Linux from scratch, I will never recommend that
experience to anyone |
| 03:54.58 |
bjorkBSD |
aha.
archlinux thinks highly of freebsd :D |
| 03:55.12 |
Maloeran |
I think it
took me about a week to both understand how the stuff works, and
how to make it work |
| 03:55.26 |
bjorkBSD |
linux from
scratch? |
| 03:55.29 |
bjorkBSD |
what on earth
is that? |
| 03:55.30 |
louipc |
yeah that
would be tough |
| 03:55.56 |
louipc |
I think it's
a good idea to start with a binary distro to learn the basics, then
go to a source based one if you're so inclined |
| 03:56.06 |
Maloeran |
bjorkBSD,
installing Linux manually, entirely |
| 03:56.24 |
bjorkBSD |
hmm. not sure
what that means Maloeran. |
| 03:56.26 |
louipc |
hah have you
heard of DIY Linux? |
| 03:56.30 |
bjorkBSD |
no. |
| 03:56.35 |
bjorkBSD |
isn't that
what linus uses? |
| 03:56.37 |
louipc |
it's even
worse than LFS |
| 03:56.50 |
Maloeran |
bjorkBSD,
there's no distribution or installer, you install everything
manually |
| 03:57.10 |
Maloeran |
That's not
hard for someone who actually knows Linux, but for a beginner, it's
absolutely atrocious |
| 03:58.26 |
bjorkBSD |
reminds me of
netbsd. |
| 03:58.31 |
bjorkBSD |
i managed to
hose my entire system installing it. |
| 03:58.37 |
bjorkBSD |
never again.
NEVER! |
| 03:59.06 |
IriX64 |
maybe i
should go with my nick |
| 03:59.32 |
bjorkBSD |
an
irix? |
| 03:59.41 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 03:59.43 |
bjorkBSD |
you're gonna
have to buy an sgi to go with it. |
| 03:59.55 |
louipc |
that's super
cool |
| 04:00.17 |
IriX64 |
pick one up
on the used market, i didn't say it would be current :) |
| 04:00.29 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX64,
they're not very expensive |
| 04:00.40 |
bjorkBSD |
just make
sure you buy the correct kinda monitor to go with it. |
| 04:00.45 |
IriX64 |
i have never
checked |
| 04:00.56 |
bjorkBSD |
you could
probably buy one for about 50-100 bucks on ebay. |
| 04:01.24 |
bjorkBSD |
but you'll
most likely get a machine from the mid-90s |
| 04:01.30 |
bjorkBSD |
with about 4
gigs |
| 04:01.44 |
IriX64 |
matters
little as long as it runs well |
| 04:01.49 |
bjorkBSD |
the more you
pay, the nicer it is. |
| 04:02.02 |
bjorkBSD |
eh. they're
annoying as hell in some ways. |
| 04:02.13 |
IriX64 |
fans? |
| 04:02.17 |
bjorkBSD |
eg: their cc
keeps spamming expired license ads. |
| 04:02.36 |
bjorkBSD |
mine has
about 4 fans on it. |
| 04:02.47 |
IriX64 |
heh windows
keeps asking me to update my os |
| 04:03.09 |
louipc |
they want
your soul |
| 04:03.10 |
Maloeran |
Translation :
Microsoft asking for more money |
| 04:03.35 |
IriX64 |
autoupdate
costs? |
| 04:03.44 |
bjorkBSD |
nah it
needn't. |
| 04:03.54 |
IriX64 |
dinna think
so |
| 04:03.55 |
bjorkBSD |
but i've
never paid M$ for anything. |
| 04:04.07 |
louipc |
I paid for a
mouse :/ |
| 04:04.08 |
IriX64 |
mea culpa im
legal |
| 04:04.24 |
bjorkBSD |
i think i
paid for a book or two from ms press. |
| 04:04.25 |
Maloeran |
Ah, I
misread, I thought it was saying to go buy their Vista
thing |
| 04:04.41 |
IriX64 |
nah os stuff
ie stuff etc |
| 04:04.59 |
Maloeran |
I paid for a
windows 95 CD once. It was my first computer, I was young and
foolish then |
| 04:05.20 |
IriX64 |
im no longer
young but i am foolish still |
| 04:05.55 |
IriX64 |
bbiab |
| 04:05.58 |
bjorkBSD |
the best tool
in the world is ataidle |
| 04:06.06 |
bjorkBSD |
it keeps my
harddisk quiet :) |
| 04:17.43 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/442319
this one is with your tcl/tk |
| 05:07.01 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 06:52.55 |
IriX64 |
anybody still
here? |
| 07:00.12 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 07:50.35 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:10.52 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543836.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 08:58.57 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754298.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:20.38 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613658.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:36.17 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613748.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 12:20.59 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
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| 13:16.59 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.36) |
| 13:55.59 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 13:57.48 |
brlcad |
woot, new
runtime libraries |
| 13:58.40 |
smallfoot- |
cool |
| 14:26.01 |
joevalleyfield |
i hate
platform tests |
| 14:31.12 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: just make
librtserver match bu/bn/rt version .. using maj:min:pat is bogus in
libtool version-info lingo. |
| 14:42.16 |
brlcad |
woo hoo.. new
version reporting setup looks like it's working great .. now aside
from docs, the version numbers should really just be in one place
for all platforms |
| 15:04.47 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-61-36.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:31.04 |
*** join/#brlcad mysticmarks
(n=mysticma@adsl-71-142-199-78.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 16:32.27 |
deltazap |
pro/e is so
infuriating |
| 16:36.10 |
mysticmarks |
hi |
| 16:41.07 |
mysticmarks |
im using sh
for terminal, will i need bash for this to run
correctly? |
| 16:45.50 |
smallfoot- |
bash is the
shit |
| 16:45.52 |
smallfoot- |
everyone use
bash |
| 16:46.07 |
smallfoot- |
bash is the
best thing since sliced bread |
| 16:46.34 |
smallfoot- |
man, if the
kids find out you dont use bash, they will be laughing at you, get
a grip man, use bash |
| 16:46.40 |
mysticmarks |
im trying to
move to open source modeling systems. Ive used solidworks on win,
but am moving to the linux platform |
| 16:47.25 |
mysticmarks |
what
dependencies will i need to take care of |
| 16:47.47 |
mysticmarks |
im using a
puppy linux. |
| 16:47.54 |
mysticmarks |
i like a
portable os |
| 16:48.04 |
mysticmarks |
i should
include bash |
| 16:48.17 |
mysticmarks |
are ther any
other libs not in the deb |
| 16:48.22 |
mysticmarks |
i will
need |
| 16:48.25 |
mysticmarks |
? |
| 16:48.48 |
mysticmarks |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:50.03 |
mysticmarks |
what about
kernel requirements? |
| 16:52.39 |
mysticmarks |
:\ |
| 16:56.47 |
*** part/#brlcad mysticmarks
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| 19:08.08 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 19:11.32 |
IriX64 |
anybody mind
if i change my version # to 9.9.9 :) |
| 19:14.11 |
IriX64 |
this one
works with XWin32 or XMing too bonus :) |
| 19:24.09 |
IriX64 |
if i uploaded
an installed folder with my cygwin build and the dll's necessary to
run it would anybody look at it? |
| 19:24.21 |
IriX64 |
ill even
include Xming :) |
| 19:32.16 |
IriX64 |
well i don't
know, but i been told, if you serve, you'll never grow old (been
told not to bother you people too much so i'll shutup now
) |
| 19:34.14 |
joevalleyfield |
does the ogl
display manager work in you cywin build? |
| 19:34.49 |
IriX64 |
attaches but
i can't bring up a frame buffer window, it thinks its there but its
really not |
| 19:35.40 |
IriX64 |
i mean fbserv
shows up in proc |
| 19:35.46 |
joevalleyfield |
yeah |
| 19:35.53 |
IriX64 |
but no
display window appears |
| 19:35.56 |
joevalleyfield |
where did you
install to? |
| 19:36.05 |
joevalleyfield |
in cygwin
path land? |
| 19:36.17 |
IriX64 |
--prefix=/usr/brlcad-7.8.4 |
| 19:37.41 |
IriX64 |
heh in
windows land exec ls don't work (chuckle) |
| 19:37.54 |
joevalleyfield |
does ln -s
work? |
| 19:38.08 |
IriX64 |
just a sec
ill bring it back up |
| 19:39.31 |
IriX64 |
no |
| 19:39.53 |
IriX64 |
rt -F:0 works
tho |
| 19:40.15 |
IriX64 |
lemme open a
database |
| 19:40.18 |
joevalleyfield |
i think an
error message is being suppressed |
| 19:41.12 |
IriX64 |
huh it said
no such command |
| 19:41.21 |
IriX64 |
and exec that
no such file |
| 19:41.25 |
joevalleyfield |
yeah |
| 19:41.41 |
IriX64 |
got galileo
load what would you have me try |
| 19:41.46 |
IriX64 |
loaded
too |
| 19:42.01 |
joevalleyfield |
lappend
auto_path /usr/brlcad-7.8.4/share/tclscripts |
| 19:44.01 |
IriX64 |
did it but i
used my windows path |
| 19:44.19 |
IriX64 |
want it
pastebinned? |
| 19:44.34 |
joevalleyfield |
please |
| 19:44.43 |
IriX64 |
i know what i
should try be right back |
| 19:45.42 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/443385 |
| 19:46.45 |
joevalleyfield |
i think you
should have used the cygwin path |
| 19:46.52 |
joevalleyfield |
then, you'll
be able to open a db |
| 19:46.59 |
joevalleyfield |
i don't know
the command to retry the attach |
| 19:48.48 |
``Erik |
um, "attach"?
:D |
| 19:48.57 |
joevalleyfield |
:-D |
| 19:50.06 |
IriX64 |
man it still
comes up i zapped the dir in /usr and it still runs on the windows
side even your lappend thing works |
| 19:51.10 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/443394 |
| 19:51.35 |
``Erik |
hey, irix,
wanna see something really neato? try "mged -c" *smirk* |
| 19:52.02 |
IriX64 |
heh ``Erik
i'm King Fool ;) |
| 19:52.18 |
``Erik |
<--likes
classic mode more than the tk stuff |
| 19:52.45 |
IriX64 |
heh im a
gooey person, just touch you'll see :) |
| 19:52.53 |
``Erik |
um,
pass? |
| 19:52.58 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 19:53.26 |
IriX64 |
beauty of
this is i can still open up a frame buffer |
| 19:53.48 |
IriX64 |
for you
classic type, the mged command window is both input and output
capable |
| 19:53.53 |
IriX64 |
types
too |
| 19:54.32 |
brlcad |
IriX64: when
you get a chance to test it, would you try changing that getvideo
-lgl check to be gconfig instead of getvideo .. see if it succeeds
or fails the configure test |
| 19:54.45 |
IriX64 |
sure |
| 19:55.04 |
IriX64 |
do it right
now lemme restore to a pristine dir |
| 19:55.17 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: mingw seems to have a -lgl that
has at least one of the old irisgl bindings, so try changing from
'getvideo' to 'gconfig' |
| 20:02.17 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669369.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:16.47 |
IriX64 |
you want hard
copy or just my report that you got it right. |
| 20:17.05 |
IriX64 |
brlcad its
proper now |
| 20:18.30 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/443446 |
| 20:22.17 |
IriX64 |
haha keiths
tank just rt'ed sweet |
| 20:23.33 |
IriX64 |
thats on the
windows side after your lappend joevalleyfield :) |
| 20:25.24 |
IriX64 |
i have no way
to get a directory from the command line though |
| 20:26.25 |
IriX64 |
could rewrite
d.com i suppose |
| 20:37.07 |
smallfoot- |
you running
IRIX? |
| 20:51.01 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/.cvsignore: ignore the generated
pkgconfig files |
| 20:55.06 |
IriX64 |
humph, comes
up with XWin32 but Xming bombs go figure |
| 21:05.53 |
IriX64 |
so if i
create a usr dir in windereze, then drop brlcad/* in it all the
paths should be proper no? |
| 21:07.42 |
IriX64 |
mmm winix
;) |
| 21:10.28 |
joevalleyfield |
you could set
the environment variable BRLCAD_DATA |
| 21:10.40 |
joevalleyfield |
i think you'd
want to use the cygwin style paths |
| 21:10.47 |
joevalleyfield |
so /c/...
like you did in mged |
| 21:12.05 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706589.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:16.06 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (38 files in 10 dirs): |
| 21:16.07 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
revamp BRL-CAD's versioning setup. no longer rely upon the vers.sh
script, |
| 21:16.07 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
allowing for a more unified cross-platform configuration. instead
of globals, |
| 21:16.07 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
provide per-library functions that return the version string. the
version |
| 21:16.07 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
numbers are now stored in files in include/conf/. |
| 21:18.16 |
IriX64 |
thats what
the app expects so that has to be used but i just want to make sure
mged can find all its resources |
| 21:19.08 |
IriX64 |
sitting
through a make install right now |
| 21:19.29 |
IriX64 |
brlcad
ty |
| 21:28.43 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): remove the vers_win.c
files as the globals they declare are no longer used (for bn, bu,
fb, rt) |
| 21:34.49 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734998.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:35.57 |
IriX64 |
``Erik...
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
it works in gui mode too :P |
| 21:37.02 |
IriX64 |
but i know
you prefer mged -c so it's there too just for you ;) |
| 21:38.57 |
IriX64 |
btw thats on
the winderze side of the house and no complaint this time about
finding resources |
| 21:40.46 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/443577
works too thats havoc |
| 21:44.57 |
IriX64 |
i was wrong
tho 6 dll's not 5 |
| 21:51.16 |
IriX64 |
check the
blog, photon mapping ala WiniX :) |
| 21:52.24 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734814.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:55.18 |
IriX64 |
too big to
fit on a cd tho |
| 21:58.29 |
IriX64 |
works with
Xming too and now ill shutup :) |
| 22:04.51 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc__
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707237.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:29.55 |
IriX64 |
gonna try it
on the other box that doesn't have a cygwin install :) |
| 22:30.10 |
joevalleyfield |
you'll need
cygwin.dll |
| 22:30.22 |
IriX64 |
have 6 i need
in the dir |
| 22:30.38 |
joevalleyfield |
excellent |
| 22:32.10 |
IriX64 |
btw for the
record, i did *not hack up brlcad to make it
compile/run |
| 22:32.54 |
IriX64 |
. |
| 22:41.29 |
IriX64 |
not bad
450mgs zipped thatll burn nicely |
| 22:46.17 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (6 files): use the new
brlcad_version() routine instead of vers.sh approach, removes need
need for vers.c files |
| 23:06.11 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:09.23 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): update to the new version
management routines, replace the dm_version global with a
dm_version() call |
| 23:22.35 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove
fft's unused version global |
| 23:24.46 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am):
remove multispectral's unused version global |
| 23:29.02 |
IriX64 |
no dice, ill
have to rethink |
| 23:29.51 |
IriX64 |
can't find a
usable itcl dunno whats up path or something |
| 23:47.16 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update to the new version
management routines, replace the liboptical_version global with a
optical_version() call |
| 23:52.16 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove
orle's unused version global |
| 00:01.18 |
Twingy |
finished my
first sprocket last weekend |
| 00:01.22 |
Twingy |
need to
upload pics of that |
| 00:01.23 |
Twingy |
brb |
| 00:01.30 |
IriX64 |
sure |
| 00:02.09 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782590.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:03.36 |
deltazap |
Twingy: yeah,
i'd like to see that |
| 00:06.28 |
IriX64 |
30 days they
give you |
| 00:14.38 |
*** join/#brlcad mysticmarks
(n=mysticma@adsl-71-142-199-78.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 00:14.52 |
*** part/#brlcad mysticmarks
(n=mysticma@adsl-71-142-199-78.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 00:23.12 |
louipc |
Twingy: yeah
that's a good idea about the modularisation. I think I'll consider
it in my packaging quest |
| 00:25.58 |
bjorkBSD |
for
archlinux? |
| 00:26.04 |
louipc |
yeap |
| 00:26.26 |
louipc |
I'm kind of
stuck on tcl and such |
| 00:26.40 |
louipc |
itcl iwidgets
blt |
| 00:42.14 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705689.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:27.50 |
IriX64 |
bjorkBSD:
what were you trying to get me into? Your favorite *nix
;) |
| 01:28.58 |
IriX64 |
I could try
to get you into mine :P |
| 01:48.09 |
IriX64 |
http://IriX32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 01:52.02 |
IriX64 |
you want to
upload anything to IriX64 blog feel free, but i don't know how to
let you do that. |
| 01:53.23 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705689.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:59.16 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/445738
<--- the shot |
| 01:59.23 |
IriX64 |
that produced
that |
| 02:01.24 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 02:06.11 |
``Erik |
naturally,
that sequence of cd's could be compacted into
../share/brlcad/9.9.9/db |
| 02:06.19 |
``Erik |
or you could
have done opendb ../share/brlcad/9.9.9/db/havoc.g |
| 02:06.22 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 02:08.13 |
``Erik |
also; the -V
option to rt might interest you |
| 02:08.33 |
``Erik |
as well as
the -H one |
| 02:09.12 |
IriX32 |
ill learn as
i go hows that |
| 02:10.07 |
IriX32 |
can they be
used together ill try now |
| 02:10.52 |
``Erik |
they can be
used together, yes... -V is for the aspect ration (your screen is
probably 4:3, MAYBE 16:9, opposed to the 1:1 you've been
rendering) |
| 02:11.16 |
IriX32 |
ty |
| 02:11.25 |
IriX32 |
drew nothing
tho |
| 02:11.40 |
``Erik |
and -H is for
hypersampling, combined with the -J flag, it produces much more
attractive pictures (super-samples the pixels so aliasing is
diminished) |
| 02:12.52 |
IriX32 |
why is it
going through the motions but not rendering in the frame
buffer? |
| 02:15.02 |
IriX32 |
sorry i
rotated it to see it does render mea culkpa |
| 02:15.06 |
IriX32 |
culpa
too |
| 02:15.23 |
IriX32 |
rot 90 0 0
sweet |
| 02:15.42 |
``Erik |
hrmmmmmmmm |
| 02:15.44 |
``Erik |
erikg@macbook
~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -R -w 800 -a45 -e10 -V4:3 -H5 -J3 -F/dev/Xl
-C85/170/200 /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/*/db/havoc.g
havoc |
| 02:15.46 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 02:16.53 |
``Erik |
Frame 0:
409600 pixels in 6.24 sec = 65619.35
pixels/sec |
| 02:16.53 |
``Erik |
Frame 0:
2468922 rays in 6.24 sec = 395529.94 rays/sec
(RTFM) |
| 02:16.53 |
``Erik |
Frame 0:
2468922 rays in 12.48 sec = 197764.97
rays/CPU_sec |
| 02:16.53 |
``Erik |
Frame 0:
2468922 rays in 6.77 sec = 364807.18 rays/sec
(wallclock) |
| 02:17.00 |
``Erik |
not bad for a
laptop |
| 02:17.25 |
IriX32 |
some
laptop |
| 02:17.28 |
IriX32 |
:) |
| 02:17.37 |
IriX32 |
the irix32
blog sideshot |
| 02:17.42 |
``Erik |
macbook pro,
2.16ghz intel core duo |
| 02:18.20 |
IriX32 |
beautiful,
ive toyed with the idea of investing in a laptop, you would
recommend such as you have to me? |
| 02:19.23 |
``Erik |
have to drop
some $'s for one like it... personally, I wouldn't with my own
money *shrug* |
| 02:19.36 |
IriX32 |
ty |
| 02:19.37 |
``Erik |
my personal
laptop is an old ibook, got it for $700 new (was "last years
model") |
| 02:19.51 |
IriX32 |
heh like used
cars eh |
| 02:19.56 |
``Erik |
slapped a
$100 stick of memory in it and an airport card and it was a decent
machine |
| 02:20.18 |
IriX32 |
i don't go
anywhere (mores the pity) :) |
| 02:20.40 |
``Erik |
computers
aren't an investment, they're an expense... one that is quickly
obsolete |
| 02:20.55 |
IriX32 |
too
true |
| 02:22.20 |
IriX32 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/445759 |
| 02:22.37 |
IriX32 |
i always
forget to disable jove sigh |
| 02:23.26 |
Twingy |
especially
when you spill beer on it |
| 02:23.42 |
IriX32 |
the laptop,
true |
| 02:31.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:31.37 |
``Erik |
hey, the
laptop survived the beer |
| 02:31.40 |
``Erik |
it was just
hung over |
| 02:33.51 |
Twingy |
jiggle the
cable |
| 02:34.41 |
IriX32 |
oh
boy |
| 02:35.24 |
IriX32 |
what was it
brlcad said about that sysv5 error use -DBSD ? |
| 02:39.35 |
IriX32 |
warning not
error |
| 02:52.53 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am vers.sh): remove the old
vers.sh script. no longer used now that include/conf is in place
along with corresponding include/brlcad_version.h
routines. |
| 02:53.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (burst.c burst.h): rely on
EXIT_SUCCESS/FAILURE even if it is c99 |
| 02:54.32 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fbfade.c fbstretch.c gif-fb.c): rely
on EXIT_SUCCESS/FAILURE even if it is c99; use bool_t/1/0 instead
of bool/true/false. |
| 02:55.45 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cad_boundp.c cad_parea.c): use
bool_t instead of bool until a wholesale c99 conversion is
made |
| 02:59.16 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vld_std.h: remove ancient c89
protections, take it as a given |
| 03:05.11 |
IriX32 |
no wonder i
don't like cvs, somebody how do i update my cvs tree? |
| 03:09.16 |
IriX32 |
never mind
:) |
| 03:15.33 |
``Erik |
"cvs update"
is a hard command, huh? |
| 03:15.49 |
IriX32 |
man. I'm a
post :) |
| 03:17.48 |
deltazap |
huh, make -j2
was causing problems on my other mac with 7.6.4 |
| 03:26.19 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: elapsed wants the build date. this
is now stored in include/conf/DATE. |
| 03:55.11 |
IriX32 |
brlcad: was
it CFLAGS=-DBSD to clear up that sysv5 mite i honestly cant remeber
and i dont log... |
| 03:57.06 |
IriX32 |
ahh sounds
familiar ill try it and see |
| 04:03.43 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: distinguish between
the full release identifier block and just the version number
itself via brlcad_ident() and brlcad_version()
respectively. |
| 04:04.26 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 13 dirs): brlcad_version()
name changed to brlcad_ident() |
| 04:17.22 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: version details no longer in
configure.ac, look in include/conf |
| 04:18.29 |
Twingy |
peanut buttah
jelly time |
| 04:18.45 |
Twingy |
crunchy |
| 04:31.20 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: += operator does not
work on older supported versions of automake. expand. |
| 04:38.54 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: remove reference to
BRLCAD_VERSION, create brlcad_data() func as needed instead of
using BRLCAD_DATA directly |
| 04:47.50 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): BRLCAD_VERSION is now
obsolete, remove all references, use brlcad_version() instead for
the triplet. |
| 04:51.04 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: BRLCAD_VERSION is now
obsolete, removing all references. now using brlcad_version()
instead for the triplet. |
| 05:01.34 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: sort lines |
| 05:31.11 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tcl.c: needs brlcad_version.h
header |
| 05:41.20 |
IriX32 |
``Erik just
how hard is that update command |
| 05:46.33 |
IriX32 |
all that time
and i got nothing. |
| 05:47.05 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/tcl.c libfb/tcl.c): need
brlcad_version.h header |
| 05:56.51 |
bjorkBSD |
IriX32?
that's almost an abomination. |
| 05:59.41 |
bjorkBSD |
the only good
irix is a 64bit version :P |
| 06:12.48 |
IriX32 |
42 is only
half the answer 84 is the full and correct answer ;) |
| 06:17.34 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-88-202.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:31.59 |
IriX32 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/445985
<---- bjorkBSD: thanks for the switches, prettiest pix i ever
saw :) |
| 06:35.29 |
IriX32 |
hahah rot 180
0 0 and im looking at the underbelly |
| 06:37.00 |
bjorkBSD |
which
switches? |
| 06:37.18 |
IriX32 |
-H -V
-J |
| 06:39.08 |
bjorkBSD |
you're
welcome but i think your gratitude is misplaced. |
| 06:39.11 |
bjorkBSD |
i don't
remember them!! |
| 06:39.49 |
IriX32 |
you e-mailed
them long time ago sorry should have explained |
| 06:40.29 |
bjorkBSD |
ah
:) |
| 07:23.46 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:27.55 |
*** join/#brlcad bjork__
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 07:44.05 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 07:49.43 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:51.59 |
*** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia
(n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 10:52.04 |
LinuxMafia |
hi
all |
| 10:52.19 |
LinuxMafia |
how do i run
brlcad? |
| 11:53.02 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:57.29 |
deltazap |
haha, oops:
*vgr lilliput.local 531.61 545.14 696.20 578.27 547.50
2.95 483.61 |
| 11:57.45 |
deltazap |
i think the
2.95 is when my screen saver kicked in... |
| 12:28.59 |
``Erik |
LinuxMafia:
you probably want to run "mged" |
| 12:29.15 |
``Erik |
delta: what
kinda "screen saver" are you running??? O.o like, seti or
folding? |
| 12:30.51 |
LinuxMafia |
``Erik, hi
there |
| 12:31.30 |
LinuxMafia |
this isn't a
Tk applicationunknown color name "Black" |
| 12:31.42 |
LinuxMafia |
this is what
i get |
| 12:36.31 |
``Erik |
odd, sounds
like your X is broken... I'm guessing it tried to query the X color
map, and didn't find the definition for black ( |
| 12:38.19 |
LinuxMafia |
``Erik,
oh |
| 12:38.38 |
LinuxMafia |
``Erik, so i
have to fix X |
| 12:39.38 |
``Erik |
that'd be my
"off-the-cuff" guess without knowing any more *shrug* |
| 12:40.08 |
LinuxMafia |
``Erik,
thanks alot or help |
| 12:40.28 |
LinuxMafia |
``Erik, i
there any user manual |
| 12:40.34 |
``Erik |
I happen to
have a /usr/Xorg/lib/X11/rgb.txt that defines all the
colors |
| 12:41.12 |
LinuxMafia |
``Erik, can
you paste it some where plz |
| 12:41.12 |
``Erik |
other apps
work ok? |
| 12:41.13 |
LinuxMafia |
? |
| 12:41.29 |
``Erik |
um, it's
kinda big? |
| 12:43.25 |
``Erik |
(and I have
to go to a meeting in a minute) |
| 12:43.25 |
LinuxMafia |
ok
thanks |
| 12:43.25 |
LinuxMafia |
i will find
it |
| 12:45.56 |
deltazap |
``Erik:
http://ridiculousfish.com/angband/ |
| 12:46.14 |
deltazap |
APW Borg
screen saver that fish put together :P |
| 13:11.44 |
deltazap |
yup, can't
figure out why this geometry is crashing mged without anything in
the logs |
| 13:12.37 |
``Erik |
what
geometry, what are you doing when it "crashes", and how does it
crash? |
| 13:26.43 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
that's not a screensaver.. the last benchmark image is not
normalized to the same reference |
| 13:43.59 |
brlcad |
joevalleyfield: ggiterm is what I was
trying to remember |
| 13:44.25 |
brlcad |
cept to mod
it and make it use libfb or sdl or something instead of
ggi |
| 13:46.33 |
joevalleyfield |
brlcad,
thanks, was apple the only platform that required you to link
static to tcl/tk |
| 13:46.53 |
brlcad |
iirc,
yes |
| 13:47.02 |
joevalleyfield |
awesome |
| 13:47.40 |
joevalleyfield |
i'm going to
try to augment libtools wrapper scripts |
| 13:48.22 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 13:50.07 |
brlcad |
as part of
the build pass? |
| 13:50.24 |
joevalleyfield |
more likely
during configure |
| 13:50.33 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 13:50.39 |
joevalleyfield |
i'm
uncomfortable making up strange build rules |
| 13:50.59 |
brlcad |
there's
already a hack in configure.ac to fix libtool |
| 13:51.11 |
joevalleyfield |
that's where
i should hook in |
| 13:51.21 |
brlcad |
libtool's
-all_load br0kage |
| 13:51.49 |
joevalleyfield |
why do we
need -all_load to work? |
| 13:52.11 |
brlcad |
we
don't |
| 13:52.17 |
brlcad |
libtool uses
all_load |
| 13:52.25 |
brlcad |
and that is
wrong |
| 13:52.31 |
joevalleyfield |
ah |
| 13:52.42 |
brlcad |
they fixed it
shortly after in a later release |
| 13:52.48 |
brlcad |
but the
version the macs ship have the bug |
| 13:52.53 |
joevalleyfield |
do you only
conditionally patch? |
| 13:53.13 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean? |
| 13:53.27 |
joevalleyfield |
if it's a new
version, do you leave it alone? |
| 13:53.35 |
brlcad |
ah,
yeah |
| 13:53.44 |
brlcad |
but if it's a
new version, it doesn't have the problem :) |
| 13:54.41 |
brlcad |
if it's a mac
(ugh, plat), it does a sed replace on all_load, warning as
needed |
| 13:55.09 |
joevalleyfield |
sounds good
to me |
| 13:55.22 |
joevalleyfield |
isn't that in
autogen.sh though? |
| 13:55.26 |
brlcad |
couldn't say
for certain whether all_load is valid on anything else, so it
checks darwin |
| 13:55.54 |
brlcad |
no, the
libtool script doesn't exist until after ac_output |
| 13:56.05 |
joevalleyfield |
that makes
sense |
| 13:56.05 |
joevalleyfield |
ok |
| 13:57.14 |
brlcad |
what I didn't
figure out is why the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH setup in the app wrappers
weren't working |
| 13:57.43 |
brlcad |
it specifies
the directories to look in, but the binary still tries to load from
prefix |
| 13:58.57 |
joevalleyfield |
it doesn't
specify tcl and tk anymore |
| 13:59.07 |
brlcad |
que? |
| 13:59.50 |
brlcad |
you mean the
libs don't do a libadd? |
| 14:00.03 |
joevalleyfield |
since you
aren't replacing tcl and tk's build system, it doens't find
libtk.la |
| 14:00.17 |
joevalleyfield |
it only finds
the libtk.dylib and pulls out it's real_path |
| 14:01.05 |
brlcad |
yeah, but
that shouldn't matter with a DYLD set |
| 14:01.26 |
brlcad |
it's still
got search rules |
| 14:01.41 |
joevalleyfield |
the point is
DYLD isn't set |
| 14:01.55 |
joevalleyfield |
it has itcl
and itk |
| 14:02.04 |
joevalleyfield |
because they
still use your build |
| 14:02.14 |
brlcad |
er, you
talking about the same thing? |
| 14:09.02 |
joevalleyfield |
sure
:) |
| 14:36.44 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: map POSIX read
permissions in MSVC |
| 14:51.24 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/.cvsignore: stamp-h1 is still
autogenerated, ignore |
| 14:55.29 |
``Erik |
iiiiinteresting, it's refusing to build
shared libs for me O.o |
| 15:43.47 |
brlcad |
dust
bunnies |
| 15:43.54 |
brlcad |
they're on
the rampage today |
| 15:56.25 |
deltazap |
brlcad: oh,
shows i know how to read numbers |
| 15:57.24 |
deltazap |
let me upload
my .g file of the geometry i'm locking mged up with |
| 15:59.46 |
*** join/#brlcad agelmi
(n=526a0573@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:01.51 |
deltazap |
http://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/8020-25.g |
| 16:05.12 |
deltazap |
now, what i
did was a matrix select and then scaled x for a distance, then did
'rot 0 70 0', and then Z and redrew the region i was working
on |
| 16:06.24 |
agelmi |
hi |
| 16:06.48 |
agelmi |
which is the
binary to lanch the program under debian? |
| 16:07.19 |
deltazap |
mged |
| 16:07.29 |
agelmi |
thank
you |
| 16:07.35 |
agelmi |
:) |
| 16:07.40 |
deltazap |
no problem
:) |
| 16:15.05 |
deltazap |
well, it at
least brings up a bad matrix error |
| 17:05.20 |
IriX32 |
``Erik shame
on you lauging at my toy system ;) |
| 17:05.27 |
IriX32 |
laughing
too |
| 17:16.18 |
``Erik |
no, it looks
like the cvs was blown away, then the program was re-imported (so
the files were all there, but all the revision history was gone,
updates whined about not able to find revision 1.31 or
whatever) |
| 17:55.20 |
Maloeran |
Erik, Survice
cleaned up all CVS history to remove all traces of GPL |
| 17:55.26 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 17:55.41 |
``Erik |
and several
changes I'd introduced, and all the history so stuff broke, and
... |
| 17:56.42 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's a
bit messy. I haven't quite understood the point of doing
so |
| 17:56.43 |
``Erik |
wow... |
| 17:56.43 |
``Erik |
isActive =
(isActive == true) ? true : false; |
| 17:56.59 |
Maloeran |
Neat! Where
did you find that? |
| 17:57.47 |
Maloeran |
I once saw
something like : if( foo & BAR ) foo &= ~BAR;
too |
| 17:58.15 |
``Erik |
http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The_Friday_Farrago_.aspx |
| 18:01.06 |
Maloeran |
Nice
stuff |
| 18:02.11 |
Maloeran |
It's a pity
I'm not allowed to share some... interesting pieces of Fortran code
too |
| 18:03.07 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:03.13 |
``Erik |
I may have ya
trumped with fortran code |
| 18:31.51 |
``Erik |
joevalleyfield |
| 18:33.11 |
joevalleyfield |
yo |
| 18:33.21 |
``Erik |
my file
server, /usr/tmp, there's a present for ya |
| 18:35.50 |
joevalleyfield |
sweet |
| 19:05.40 |
IriX32 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/446924
< sweet success |
| 19:08.29 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
matrix select on what? |
| 19:09.36 |
brlcad |
did you
apply/accept those edits? a Z cancels any pending
edits |
| 19:09.47 |
deltazap |
accepted
them |
| 19:10.21 |
deltazap |
the problem
is that for some reason, if you do a scale then rotation, the
matrix for that object craps out |
| 19:10.27 |
brlcad |
ooooh, |
| 19:10.29 |
brlcad |
got
it |
| 19:11.24 |
deltazap |
the error is
"matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity" |
| 19:11.44 |
deltazap |
which i'm
guessing that it doesn't like that it's not at a 90 degree angle to
the starting position |
| 19:12.11 |
brlcad |
yeah, I think
the x scaling is a red herring |
| 19:12.19 |
brlcad |
the rotation
is key.. hmm |
| 19:13.01 |
deltazap |
also, is
rotobj supposed to do the same as orot? |
| 19:13.32 |
brlcad |
basically |
| 19:13.48 |
brlcad |
though rotobj
has an optional arg to indicate that values are
incremental |
| 19:13.48 |
deltazap |
ok, just
making sure |
| 19:14.00 |
deltazap |
yeah, but
that would make it function like rot |
| 19:39.15 |
IriX32 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 19:39.49 |
IriX32 |
milestone
:) |
| 19:41.32 |
``Erik |
http://thedailywtf.com/forums/59028/PostAttachment.aspx |
| 19:44.16 |
IriX32 |
told you
``Erik the real answer is 84 :) |
| 19:45.06 |
IriX32 |
ouch 3.6
fps |
| 19:45.37 |
IriX32 |
shouldn't do
this while i'm compiling |
| 19:45.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54875ffb.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:51.19 |
IriX32 |
``Erik i'm
looking at it don't see it |
| 19:52.22 |
IriX32 |
ahh you're
passing on to configure tcl |
| 19:53.34 |
IriX32 |
ah and tk and
enigma |
| 19:53.55 |
IriX32 |
i didnt'
check to see if tcl configured with shared or not let me look in
config.log |
| 19:55.25 |
IriX32 |
it did it
passed --disable shared to it ``Erik |
| 19:55.54 |
IriX32 |
and enable
sysmbols cause debug is set by default |
| 19:55.55 |
``Erik |
yeah, uh, my
statement wasn't about the technical mechanism, it was about why
brlcad put it there... :) |
| 19:56.07 |
joevalleyfield |
he did it for
mac |
| 19:56.11 |
IriX32 |
turn debug
off :) |
| 19:56.14 |
joevalleyfield |
i'm working
hard to make it go away |
| 19:56.37 |
``Erik |
:) it's
making lib work on a non-mac a bitch hehehehe |
| 19:56.51 |
joevalleyfield |
than fix that
line and continue on your way :) |
| 19:57.03 |
``Erik |
<-- has it
commented out |
| 19:57.11 |
IriX32 |
heh wheres
the fine adjustment tool |
| 19:58.38 |
IriX32 |
raytrace
complete didn't even notice |
| 20:00.38 |
IriX32 |
haha emitting
photons :) |
| 20:01.18 |
IriX32 |
perhaps a mac
for my birthday |
| 20:02.08 |
``Erik |
tired of
being the only windows user here? :D |
| 20:02.29 |
joevalleyfield |
we need a
windows user |
| 20:02.37 |
IriX32 |
not yet, i
kind of enjoy being whatever it is I am to you :) |
| 20:02.39 |
joevalleyfield |
preferably
one that uses msys to build brlcad from cvs |
| 20:02.44 |
``Erik |
indeed
:/ |
| 20:02.58 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:03.01 |
``Erik |
cygwin with
-mno-cygwin should be fine *shrug* |
| 20:03.03 |
IriX32 |
hey i
succeded in doing an update today |
| 20:03.24 |
IriX32 |
``Erik still
have issues with that but its on a burner |
| 20:04.29 |
IriX32 |
but
-mno-win32 works |
| 20:04.55 |
``Erik |
heh, but we
WANT win32, we want to ditch the cygwin/X requirement on winderz...
:D |
| 20:05.22 |
IriX32 |
thats for
compiling, simply doesn't define standard windows
defines |
| 20:05.32 |
IriX32 |
like
_WIN32 |
| 20:10.33 |
IriX32 |
my way is
viable too pick your own xserver for your winderez box |
| 20:11.07 |
IriX32 |
currently
running Xwin32 evaluation |
| 20:14.29 |
IriX32 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
<-- I offer proof |
| 20:15.40 |
joevalleyfield |
just because
it works doesn't mean its appealing |
| 20:16.34 |
IriX32 |
what if i
sugar coat it :) |
| 20:35.48 |
joevalleyfield |
``Erik: you
were smokin Irix32's sugar-coated crack pipe too long |
| 20:38.40 |
IriX32 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
the first two pix are from the windows side of the house, your
brlcad code and my 6 dll'd |
| 20:38.52 |
IriX32 |
err
dll's |
| 20:55.11 |
IriX32 |
scared
myself, windows side of the house didn't have /usr/brlcad/bin path
set blew up nicely |
| 20:56.25 |
IriX32 |
wonder if i
can start it from the desktop.... i'll have to edit system path
easy job |
| 20:59.42 |
IriX32 |
beautiful dbl
click and its up |
| 21:00.16 |
IriX32 |
assigned a
nice little star icon to my baby star mged :) |
| 21:25.54 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 21:27.05 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706457.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:41.30 |
IriX32 |
that was fun
whats next :) |
| 21:42.57 |
IriX32 |
gonna make
one for march=i386 should cover all (well not mac
but...) |
| 21:44.56 |
IriX32 |
if i asked
for volunteer to test would i get any takers? |
| 21:45.50 |
IriX32 |
in a channel
full of unix people i said that told you i'm a post sometimes
:) |
| 21:51.00 |
``Erik |
syntax error,
does not parse |
| 22:03.53 |
IriX32 |
dumb as a
post :) |
| 22:30.21 |
IriX32 |
if we remove
the cygwin dependencies it wouldn't be cygwin anymore, I have
however removed the dependency on cygwin-x is this not
sufficent |
| 22:32.42 |
IriX32 |
i did not
hack brlcad to do this |
| 22:33.42 |
IriX32 |
far as brlcad
is concerned its running on some *nix platform (but i gotta do
something about exec ls) |
| 22:35.18 |
IriX32 |
even with
-mno-cygwin you're still tied to the xserver ``Erik |
| 22:38.56 |
IriX32 |
for console
apps it works right now |
| 23:38.48 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 01:21.05 |
IriX32 |
K-tank
delivered (sorta) |
| 01:22.32 |
IriX32 |
photo-shop is
really hard ;) |
| 01:22.32 |
deltazap |
brlcad: quick
question, how i can i change the name of a region or primative and
all references |
| 01:32.46 |
brlcad |
erm |
| 01:33.05 |
brlcad |
there's a
command for that.. what's it called.. think it's on the cheat
sheet |
| 01:33.10 |
deltazap |
looking... |
| 01:33.12 |
brlcad |
mebbie
mvall |
| 01:33.30 |
deltazap |
ah,
ok |
| 02:08.47 |
CIA-14 |
libIRC:
03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/ (disabled checkoutlist): libirc is now
migrated over to svn. disable access to everything except to
CVSROOT. |
| 02:09.03 |
IriX32 |
i stupidly
thought windows gl would not be picked up. |
| 02:09.21 |
IriX32 |
your check
works :) |
| 02:09.43 |
IriX32 |
gives me
grief with if_wgl.c tho |
| 02:09.54 |
IriX32 |
so hard coded
it off for now |
| 02:10.08 |
brlcad |
should work
of course |
| 02:10.13 |
IriX32 |
should |
| 02:11.09 |
CIA-14 |
libIRC:
03brlcad * 10libirc/COPYING: LGPL, test commit |
| 02:12.03 |
IriX32 |
its in
libfb |
| 02:14.43 |
CIA-14 |
libIRC:
03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/ (avail checkoutlist disabled): oop, file
needs to actually be named avail |
| 02:15.49 |
CIA-14 |
libIRC:
03brlcad * 10libirc/README: test commit |
| 02:16.13 |
IriX32 |
that was
intended for the civilians like me sir :) |
| 02:18.18 |
IriX32 |
http://pastebin.ca/449168 <---
this one however is just a warning but still... |
| 02:23.38 |
brlcad |
spurious |
| 02:24.32 |
IriX32 |
serious
:) |
| 02:29.42 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/ (11 files): quell
spurious/bogus warning about datarootdir being ignored |
| 02:40.26 |
IriX32 |
http://pastebin.ca/449200 <
--will this work, not worried about JavaVM at the
moment. |
| 02:40.31 |
deltazap |
brlcad: will
a projection project around a curved surface? |
| 02:45.14 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:46.54 |
dli |
cvs problem,
after ./autogen.sh, ./configure found missing
Makefile.in |
| 02:47.47 |
brlcad |
dli: cvs -q
update -dP |
| 02:47.49 |
IriX32 |
forgot fi
sorry guys |
| 02:47.58 |
brlcad |
check for
conflicts if you had an existing checkout |
| 02:48.06 |
brlcad |
deltazap:
sure |
| 02:48.52 |
dli |
IriX32, yes,
I removed the original folder, doesn't help |
| 02:49.19 |
IriX32 |
uh which
makefile.in is missing |
| 02:50.32 |
brlcad |
usually
implies either need an cvs update -dP or there's a line missing
from configure.ac to generate the Makefile.in |
| 02:51.11 |
IriX32 |
try
./autogen.sh --verbose |
| 03:20.37 |
IriX32 |
the things i
then do to myself/ |
| 03:25.05 |
dli |
IriX32,
works? |
| 03:25.42 |
IriX32 |
which? |
| 03:25.55 |
IriX32 |
got several
things happening here. |
| 03:26.20 |
dli |
missing
Makefile.in from cvs |
| 03:27.51 |
IriX32 |
man cvs does
not provide makefile.in's |
| 03:28.04 |
IriX32 |
generated by
autogen |
| 03:28.14 |
IriX32 |
thats why the
--verbose switch |
| 03:35.22 |
IriX32 |
know your
system :) |
| 03:37.30 |
IriX32 |
heh it woulda
worked if i had jni.h ;) |
| 03:43.55 |
deltazap |
brlcad: if
you want to take a look at the challenge for tomorrow, it's up at
http://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/challenge.zip |
| 03:44.11 |
deltazap |
good luck ;)
and no cheating by converting the pix files :P |
| 03:44.13 |
dli |
IriX32,
thanks:) |
| 03:44.29 |
IriX32 |
dli
welcome |
| 03:45.42 |
IriX32 |
btw dli, i'm
no expert, just the resident comic :) |
| 03:46.00 |
IriX32 |
i think
;) |
| 03:48.13 |
IriX32 |
my presence
here goes unnoticed |
| 03:50.14 |
dli |
cvs -z3 -d
":pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad" update -dP
brlcad brlcad |
| 03:50.29 |
dli |
IriX32, do I
pass some ENV to autogen.sh? |
| 03:55.33 |
dli |
IriX32,
config.status: WARNING: Makefile.in seems to ignore the
--datarootdir setting |
| 04:00.38 |
IriX32 |
checking that
right now, wait a bit |
| 04:01.33 |
IriX32 |
a compile and
a configure running at the same time, needs patience. |
| 04:05.59 |
dli |
IriX32, I
guess it's automake-version problem |
| 04:06.31 |
IriX32 |
hmmm x11 does
not appear to be functionaly available still? (i did an update mere
15 minutes ago) |
| 04:06.43 |
IriX32 |
dli
wait |
| 04:07.21 |
dli |
IriX32, using
automake-1.10 has no Makefile.in problem |
| 04:08.26 |
IriX32 |
really? i'm
using 1.8.5 and the last update i got fixed it looks
like |
| 04:08.36 |
IriX32 |
cvs
update |
| 04:09.01 |
dli |
IriX32, good,
it's building |
| 04:09.07 |
IriX32 |
good |
| 04:10.06 |
dli |
IriX32, I
updated the tcl/tk doc patch, http://pastebin.ca/449316 |
| 04:10.16 |
IriX32 |
ty |
| 04:11.01 |
IriX32 |
man i do not
speak make sorry. |
| 04:11.43 |
IriX32 |
brlcad that
last did the trick re dataroot dir thingy |
| 04:12.05 |
dli |
IriX32, what
trick? |
| 04:12.32 |
IriX32 |
updating
after his last commit |
| 04:12.42 |
dli |
IriX32, no
idea |
| 04:14.12 |
IriX32 |
http://pastebin.ca/449325 <--
summary of plain ./autogen.sh ./configure |
| 04:14.26 |
dli |
ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/lib64/itcl3.3/
ITK_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/lib64/itk3.3/
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 04:15.05 |
dli |
good |
| 04:15.30 |
dli |
I want to
build a /usr/bin/brlcad (a script to run /usr/brlcad/bin/brlcad
) |
| 04:15.52 |
IriX32 |
? |
| 04:16.24 |
dli |
IriX32,
sorry, to /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 04:16.41 |
IriX32 |
just set your
path |
| 04:17.09 |
IriX32 |
don't ask me
how that's done :) |
| 04:35.41 |
dli |
IriX32, good,
I got cvs running |
| 04:40.19 |
IriX32 |
dli you said
you're using archlinux right |
| 04:46.14 |
IriX32 |
txUnixMenubu.c in tk/unix is misssing a
#include "default.h" watch out for it. |
| 04:48.00 |
IriX32 |
break
time |
| 04:48.23 |
dli |
IriX32,
gentoo |
| 04:48.35 |
dli |
IriX32, use
automake-1.10? |
| 04:48.52 |
IriX32 |
that fixes
it? |
| 04:49.06 |
IriX32 |
whatever
works man |
| 04:49.16 |
dli |
IriX32,
yes |
| 04:49.50 |
IriX32 |
guess i
should upgrade...someday... but if it's not broken you
know... |
| 04:51.26 |
dli |
IriX32,
rebuild to double check the building script |
| 05:04.50 |
IriX32 |
dli, don't
follow, autogen works here |
| 05:27.50 |
dli |
IriX32, I
submitted my ebuilds to http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197 |
| 05:29.40 |
IriX32 |
good |
| 05:30.07 |
dli |
IriX32,
double checked, it works for me |
| 05:30.37 |
IriX32 |
good mine
always did work |
| 05:31.03 |
dli |
IriX32,
gentoo is still mysterious to me :( |
| 05:31.21 |
IriX32 |
life is
mysterious to me :) |
| 05:34.44 |
dli |
IriX32, sure,
buddha said there are as many worlds like ours as number of sands
in the river Ganges |
| 05:35.40 |
IriX32 |
*I say life
is elementary school, how you make out here determines which high
school you go to |
| 05:39.23 |
dli |
IriX32,
buddha say everyone has his or her own buddha, and all lives are
equal |
| 05:39.58 |
IriX32 |
but the
routes to the final destination are various |
| 05:41.49 |
IriX32 |
some take the
high road some take the rocky road |
| 05:42.10 |
dli |
IriX32,
there's no such "final destination", giving the multiverse
world |
| 05:42.55 |
IriX32 |
ahh i beg to
differ, the eternal kingdom is under construction, we're expected
to help build it |
| 05:43.56 |
IriX32 |
someday i'll
tell you about my golden dream, and my impossible golden dream
:) |
| 05:44.06 |
dli |
IriX32, you
can enjoy your world :) and buddha wants to help
everyone |
| 05:44.25 |
IriX32 |
it's your
world too, live it up |
| 05:44.30 |
IriX32 |
:) |
| 05:45.03 |
dli |
IriX32, no,
since everyone can has a different buddha, not necessarily the
same |
| 05:45.39 |
IriX32 |
all names
refer to one being |
| 05:46.14 |
dli |
IriX32,
buddha doesn't see an almighty creator for the multiverse
:) |
| 05:46.39 |
IriX32 |
you saying
your buddah |
| 05:48.29 |
dli |
IriX32, yes,
buddha knows there are other buddhas, so, there's no concept of
infidel for him. because there's no non-believers, just other
buddhas |
| 05:48.44 |
IriX32 |
was thanking
God for something one day, and thought to ask after his day, into
my mind pops the word splendacious |
| 05:48.59 |
IriX32 |
i didn't even
know that word existed before that |
| 05:49.04 |
dli |
IriX32,
thinking of God leads to religious wars :) |
| 05:49.13 |
IriX32 |
not
here |
| 05:50.00 |
dli |
also, God is
evil and jealous, he punishes you, if you don't believe him, and
only him |
| 05:50.13 |
IriX32 |
i'm told the
secret is to learn to recognize thoughts that are not
your |
| 05:50.25 |
IriX32 |
+s |
| 05:50.52 |
IriX32 |
well i see
hellish high for you then |
| 05:51.49 |
dli |
IriX32, hehe,
buddha says, if there's a hell, I should go there, before everyone
else should |
| 06:00.48 |
IriX32 |
you should
study Gods plan |
| 06:02.16 |
dli |
IriX32, no,
I'm atheist :) but interested why people still killing each other
in name of God |
| 06:03.28 |
IriX32 |
in name of
God you say, they don't truly beleive in the diety then |
| 06:04.15 |
IriX32 |
the uso show
is now over :) |
| 06:07.15 |
dli |
IriX32, just
watched PBS show, "America at crossroad". Most muslim (on the show)
are so scary to me. |
| 06:08.14 |
IriX32 |
muslims are
people too, should not be afraid of people dli, learn their
customs, traditions etc |
| 06:08.37 |
dli |
IriX32, the
show reminds me, Taliban destroyed buddha statues in Bamiyan. No
buddhist suicide bombers because of that |
| 06:09.38 |
IriX32 |
if people
would communicate, rather than pontificate |
| 06:09.52 |
IriX32 |
such might
not happen |
| 06:10.33 |
dli |
IriX32, you
forgot native European born radicals |
| 06:11.19 |
IriX32 |
are you here
to goad me or do you really want my help? |
| 06:12.24 |
dli |
IriX32, no,
just thinking about the PBS show, maybe, it's biased |
| 07:17.57 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:53.39 |
brlcad |
dli: nice
work on the ebuild |
| 07:54.15 |
brlcad |
the problem
that it's going to probably run into is just the complications from
using /usr/brlcad |
| 07:55.12 |
brlcad |
some of the
core guys are not particularly fond of having another big top-level
usr dir ala X11R6 |
| 07:56.34 |
brlcad |
and to not
put brl-cad into /usr/brlcad, e.g. into /usr, means attempting to
resolve or deal with about a dozen conflicts |
| 09:31.44 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 09:36.17 |
clock_ |
brlcad: did
you say that pipe is defined by points on it's way and
curvatures? |
| 09:53.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:17.39 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 11:17.39 |
*** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia
(n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:17.39 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 11:31.47 |
*** join/#brlcad cad18
(n=5076b7b6@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:32.14 |
cad18 |
hi
all |
| 11:32.40 |
deltazap |
clock_: yes,
it is |
| 11:33.16 |
deltazap |
the first and
last points radiuses don't matter, but everything else
does |
| 11:33.25 |
cad18 |
is brlcad
comparable to catia? |
| 11:34.47 |
deltazap |
cad18: from
what i understand, catia is much more indepth into the whole
lifecycle of an item. not only does it do modelling, but analysis
and CAM, i believe |
| 11:35.01 |
deltazap |
but, it's
also much more $$$ :P |
| 11:35.14 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (linkroot.sh Makefile.am): |
| 11:35.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
adding an initial script used to create or recreate the symbolic
links in an |
| 11:35.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
installation root directory where multiple versions are retained.
the script |
| 11:35.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
currently creates the links in a directory (e.g. /usr/brlcad) to
point to some |
| 11:35.15 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
specified current stable version (e.g. /usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.0).
more work |
| 11:35.17 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
needed to recreate/relink properly still, but it's a
start. |
| 11:42.56 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: per e-mail initiated on their end,
softpedia would like to be notified when we make releases of
brl-cad. particularly for the mac builds, though there is also a
linux entry now apparently too. |
| 12:37.34 |
p0g0 |
Hi-is there a
simple list of the dependencies required for brlcad- ./configure
reports no x11 or opengl, and the compile bombs with
"error:x11/xlib.h" -this being an Xorg v11 system, I'd guess I'm
hosed... clues? Manna from on high? |
| 12:38.25 |
clock_ |
deltazap: and
how are the curvatures defined? Using one vector? |
| 12:39.25 |
deltazap |
nope, just a
radius |
| 12:40.01 |
joevalleyfield |
p0g0, where
is your x11/xlib.h |
| 12:40.20 |
p0g0 |
uhmm- with an
Xorg setup, I doubt that I have one. |
| 12:40.29 |
p0g0 |
Xorg
<>X11 |
| 12:40.36 |
joevalleyfield |
uh |
| 12:40.42 |
joevalleyfield |
i'm pretty
sure you still have one |
| 12:40.44 |
p0g0 |
I could be
very wrong tho |
| 12:40.59 |
joevalleyfield |
Xorg is just
a fork of xfree86? |
| 12:41.03 |
p0g0 |
ok then I'll
just need to locate it and get it into the path |
| 12:41.08 |
joevalleyfield |
everything is
really the same |
| 12:41.15 |
joevalleyfield |
put it in
some CPPFLAGS |
| 12:41.37 |
joevalleyfield |
CPPFLAGS='-I
/path/to/X11dir/' |
| 12:41.59 |
p0g0 |
ok- then I'd
guess all I'll need are the headers/source for Xorg... I'll sort
that out |
| 12:42.12 |
joevalleyfield |
just
headers |
| 12:42.27 |
joevalleyfield |
and
libs |
| 12:42.37 |
p0g0 |
then I'd
rerun ./configure to get rid of the no X11 , I'd guess |
| 12:42.45 |
joevalleyfield |
hopefully |
| 12:43.01 |
p0g0 |
Ok- I'll fool
with that, thanks |
| 12:43.10 |
joevalleyfield |
np |
| 13:28.12 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:14.22 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4
tk/unix/tcl.m4): |
| 16:14.22 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
remove dependency on __private_extern__ when compiling on
darwin |
| 16:14.22 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
don't hide module symbols on apple; they aren't hidden on other
unix platforms |
| 17:22.57 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (9 files in 2
dirs): |
| 17:26.20 |
joevalleyfield |
brlcad, the
commit message for that was supposed to be remove dependency on
-fpascal-strings when building for aqua |
| 17:30.07 |
joevalleyfield |
i imagine
it's darn near impossible to hack it in |
| 18:02.29 |
joevalleyfield |
i modified
the each of the log messages, maybe something more needs to be done
to make the changelog happy? |
| 18:52.13 |
``Erik |
Xorg is a
fork of X11, usually installed to /usr/X11R6, though I like mine in
/usr/Xorg |
| 18:52.22 |
``Erik |
--with-x11=/usr/Xorg makes mine all
peachy |
| 18:56.55 |
p0g0 |
``Erik: tell
me more about that-I'm trying to sort out the dependencies in an
Xorg (X11R6) setup...I'm not even sure whether the headers I need
are to be found in X11-common. I'd appreciate any datum
offered. |
| 19:01.35 |
``Erik |
for BRL-CAD?
xorg-libraries should be enough |
| 19:02.27 |
p0g0 |
``Erik:
thanks |
| 19:03.55 |
``Erik |
p0g0: which
os are you using? |
| 19:04.28 |
p0g0 |
``Erik: on
this box, it's a debian offshoot of SID |
| 19:04.39 |
``Erik |
hum, does X
launch? can you use like gnome or kde and get a working
desktop? |
| 19:05.27 |
p0g0 |
oh yeah- it's
a happy box, kde, kernel 2.6.18 smp, intel p6 3Ghz... |
| 19:06.05 |
``Erik |
ok, do you
have the xlib dev package? like, um, /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h
? |
| 19:06.35 |
``Erik |
(which is
what time asked in a case special way) |
| 19:06.47 |
``Erik |
"special"
heh... :D hockey helmet and water wings, yo |
| 19:07.23 |
p0g0 |
that's what I
lack- I'd hoped to locate a dependency list, but so far I'm just
chipping away missing lib by missing lib. |
| 19:07.44 |
``Erik |
well, the dep
list for BRL-CAD is kinda a non-static thing |
| 19:07.53 |
p0g0 |
fair
enough |
| 19:08.04 |
``Erik |
for what you
want, you probably need the X dev package, the png dev package,
ummm maybe tcl and tk 8.5 |
| 19:08.13 |
p0g0 |
I should be
able to locate the -dev .deb |
| 19:08.24 |
p0g0 |
ooh
thanks |
| 19:08.24 |
``Erik |
(notice I'm
saying dev package on all of those) |
| 19:08.37 |
p0g0 |
yes, I
appreciate the meaning of that |
| 19:14.28 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4
tk/unix/tcl.m4): |
| 19:14.28 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
remove dependency on __private_extern__ when compiling on
darwin |
| 19:14.29 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
usually MODULE_SCOPE is defined in tclInt.h. Apparently some OSX
files |
| 19:14.29 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
don't include it so MODULE SCOPE must be defined as extern where it
was |
| 19:14.29 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
previously defined as __private_extern__. |
| 19:41.05 |
IriX32 |
it says found
x11 in /usr/x11r6 but then x11 is not functionally
available |
| 19:41.18 |
IriX32 |
. |
| 19:41.46 |
IriX32 |
libs are in
x11r6/lib |
| 19:41.52 |
joevalleyfield |
as always,
look at the end of your config.log and see why the test program
didn't run |
| 19:42.53 |
IriX32 |
urf
ty |
| 19:44.37 |
``Erik |
"A net is a
series of holes joined together with string" |
| 19:45.22 |
joevalleyfield |
tubes |
| 19:45.47 |
``Erik |
<-- meant
an omfg real net, not a network |
| 19:46.09 |
IriX32 |
_XNewModifiermap <---- undefined
reference |
| 19:46.28 |
``Erik |
I guess
you'll have to use the old modifier map :/ |
| 19:46.33 |
IriX32 |
heh |
| 19:46.46 |
IriX32 |
who crafted
the new :P |
| 19:46.53 |
``Erik |
or search
your libraries to see which one defines the symbol |
| 19:47.21 |
IriX32 |
man x is
fraught :P |
| 19:48.08 |
IriX32 |
suppose i
could hard code it on ... but... that wouldn't be in keeping with
the spirit of things now would it |
| 19:48.40 |
IriX32 |
i know i have
x i know it finds it. ill set libs myself |
| 19:49.38 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:50.35 |
joevalleyfield |
that should
work, the source code doesn't appear to rely on
XNewModifiermap |
| 19:50.52 |
IriX32 |
ty |
| 19:52.13 |
IriX32 |
your fast
joevalleyfield, thanks |
| 19:52.50 |
joevalleyfield |
grep is
everyone's friend |
| 19:52.56 |
IriX32 |
heh
true |
| 20:00.53 |
IriX32 |
jvf trying
something |
| 20:06.08 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 20:06.55 |
IriX32 |
never mind
will only work if X is up :) |
| 20:09.54 |
IriX32 |
so...
x11_works=yes to the rescue :) |
| 20:12.00 |
IriX32 |
lets see if
libs get set right |
| 20:19.20 |
IriX32 |
-L/usr/X11R6/lib :) |
| 20:29.43 |
IriX32 |
ty
building |
| 20:35.35 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (get_outer_shell.cpp brep.cpp
add_face.cpp): correct a typo in documentation |
| 20:36.21 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: correct a typo in
documentation |
| 20:37.42 |
CIA-14 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Add initial (currently
untested) support for trimming |
| 20:42.39 |
IriX32 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
<--- promised you K-tank last night :) |
| 20:44.21 |
b0ef |
wasn't there
an effort to move BRL-CAD to storing floats in double
precision? |
| 20:53.12 |
IriX32 |
sphere
flake |
| 20:57.03 |
IriX32 |
mmm i
mentioned it... better deliver it :) |
| 21:07.32 |
IriX32 |
complex, very
slow to appear |
| 21:29.47 |
IriX32 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
sphere flake and rendering sphere flake |
| 21:31.04 |
IriX32 |
you're
probably wondering what I'm doing messing around with 7.10
:) |
| 21:50.43 |
IriX32 |
same blog
address , your way combined with my way :) |
| 21:53.42 |
IriX32 |
if i want a
fbserv window i just type exec fbserv 2 /dev/X into the mged
command window and ... |
| 22:16.54 |
archivist |
IriX32, test
your link before you publish http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
I get an xml error |
| 22:18.29 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:23.38 |
IriX32 |
whoa
sorry |
| 22:24.15 |
IriX32 |
just loaded
what you typed, works here |
| 22:24.46 |
IriX32 |
having bwish
issues right now tho |
| 22:26.20 |
IriX32 |
its there but
it can't find go figure, tk8.5.a that is |
| 23:23.16 |
brlcad |
b0ef: erm..
for which file type? the .g files should be packed in
double-precision (it's up to each primitive) |
| 23:23.37 |
brlcad |
the .asc file
format is a bit different, limited only by snprintf
settings |
| 23:36.23 |
CIA-14 |
libIRC:
03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/commitinfo: use the cvs_acls file to read the
access rules in the avail file, thanks dtremenak |
| 23:40.05 |
dli |
brlcad, if we
build /usr/, the problem is that some brlcad libraries, librt
libbn, libz will be linked into many other packages. |
| 23:56.21 |
IriX32 |
dli so put it
in /usr/local/brlcad (--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad on configure
line) |
| 00:16.28 |
*** join/#brlcad p0g0
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| 00:54.38 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
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| 08:12.19 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-88-220.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:19.08 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 09:59.59 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Elperion@p54875006.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:09.19 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
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| 11:10.21 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
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| 11:23.31 |
*** join/#brlcad p0g0
(n=pogo@madwifi/support/p0g0) |
| 12:51.51 |
*** join/#brlcad gioacchino
(n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 12:52.00 |
gioacchino |
hello |
| 12:52.28 |
gioacchino |
anybody can
help me ? |
| 12:52.58 |
elite01_ |
maybe |
| 12:53.07 |
elite01_ |
i'm no
experts, but there are some here - so, just ask |
| 12:53.18 |
elite01_ |
i'm not even
a single expert |
| 12:53.44 |
gioacchino |
I use brlcad
latest version |
| 12:53.51 |
gioacchino |
I have a
prbolem |
| 12:53.59 |
elite01_ |
what is
it? |
| 12:54.09 |
gioacchino |
mged> exec
fbserv 1 /dev/sgip & |
| 12:54.33 |
gioacchino |
7.10
version |
| 12:54.39 |
gioacchino |
when I
run |
| 12:54.42 |
gioacchino |
mged> exec
fbserv 1 /dev/sgip & |
| 12:54.53 |
gioacchino |
it respond no
such file or directory |
| 12:54.59 |
gioacchino |
how to fix it
? |
| 12:55.15 |
elite01_ |
is there
/dev/sgip? |
| 12:56.00 |
gioacchino |
I not
know |
| 12:56.09 |
gioacchino |
but i use the
user guide... |
| 12:56.29 |
elite01_ |
just check ls
/dev/sgip |
| 12:56.37 |
gioacchino |
I'm a new
bie |
| 12:56.37 |
elite01_ |
i don't have
/dev/sgip - i don't even know what it is |
| 12:56.56 |
gioacchino |
file:///usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.4/html/manuals/mged/index.html |
| 12:57.34 |
elite01_ |
hum i just
use file->raytrace and it eeh kind of just works |
| 12:59.38 |
*** join/#brlcad gioacchino
(n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 13:00.05 |
gioacchino |
a
demand |
| 13:00.35 |
gioacchino |
qhen you
click on window when you see your project |
| 13:01.26 |
gioacchino |
you can only
enlarge or contract ? |
| 13:01.35 |
gioacchino |
or you can
make some action ? |
| 13:01.59 |
elite01_ |
wait |
| 13:02.10 |
elite01_ |
what window?
the one where rendered stuff is in? |
| 13:02.53 |
elite01_ |
and what do
you mean by "some action"? |
| 13:03.49 |
gioacchino |
window |
| 13:04.30 |
gioacchino |
the windows
where you se your creation 3d |
| 13:05.10 |
elite01_ |
ok |
| 13:06.16 |
gioacchino |
you can do
any action |
| 13:06.32 |
gioacchino |
or you can
onbly enlarge and contract image ? |
| 13:06.36 |
elite01_ |
uuh well i
can zoom, resize, move objects, all kinds of stuff |
| 13:06.44 |
elite01_ |
if i just
click in the middle, it zooms |
| 13:06.51 |
elite01_ |
with shift,
it moves the viewport |
| 13:08.33 |
gioacchino |
hum... |
| 13:08.46 |
gioacchino |
form command
line how to save a project ? |
| 13:09.12 |
gioacchino |
i try with
save but when I reopen the project is black |
| 13:10.58 |
gioacchino |
mged> exec
fbserv |
| 13:10.58 |
gioacchino |
couldn't
execute "fbserv": no such file or directory |
| 13:11.29 |
gioacchino |
I start
brl-cad in is folder... |
| 13:11.39 |
gioacchino |
and fbserv is
in the ls |
| 13:12.13 |
elite01_ |
uhm you
needn't save |
| 13:12.28 |
elite01_ |
just like
mged mystuff.g, close mged, do mged mystuff.g, ls - stuff is there
again |
| 13:12.33 |
elite01_ |
no idea why
you don't have fbserv |
| 13:12.38 |
elite01_ |
maybe you
need to make install |
| 13:12.50 |
gioacchino |
mmm |
| 13:12.53 |
gioacchino |
I have
fbserv |
| 13:12.59 |
gioacchino |
but exec not
see it |
| 13:13.38 |
gioacchino |
I try with
all tool in brl folder and it tell |
| 13:13.46 |
gioacchino |
no such file
for all tool |
| 13:13.49 |
elite01_ |
i guess they
have to be in $PATH |
| 13:14.14 |
gioacchino |
how to add
the brl folder to path ? |
| 13:14.25 |
elite01_ |
have you done
"make install"? |
| 13:14.29 |
gioacchino |
yes |
| 13:14.54 |
elite01_ |
hmm should
"just work" then - will fbserv do something when you just run it in
a sh? |
| 13:15.16 |
gioacchino |
no |
| 13:15.26 |
gioacchino |
because it is
in a folder not in path |
| 13:15.41 |
gioacchino |
bash: fbserv:
command not found |
| 13:15.47 |
elite01_ |
shows usage
info here |
| 13:15.50 |
gioacchino |
but if
I |
| 13:16.21 |
elite01_ |
maybe i added
it myself |
| 13:16.23 |
gioacchino |
but if I run
/user/brlcad/bin/fbserv it ask a port number |
| 13:16.47 |
elite01_ |
then just do
that :) |
| 13:17.15 |
elite01_ |
or add
/usr/brlcad/bin to the $PATH - looks like that isn't done
automatically |
| 13:18.37 |
gioacchino |
how to add
? |
| 13:19.43 |
elite01_ |
add a line
like "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin" to your .bashrc or
.bash_profile or something like that |
| 13:21.28 |
gioacchino |
it only add
this folder or delete the dther folder ? |
| 13:23.02 |
elite01_ |
only add
that |
| 13:23.07 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 13:23.14 |
gioacchino |
I ass it at
the bottom |
| 13:23.48 |
elite01_ |
yeah |
| 13:25.40 |
gioacchino |
wath the
difference fro,m |
| 13:25.57 |
gioacchino |
X wondow and
OGL window? |
| 13:26.10 |
gioacchino |
because when
I start mged from kde menu' |
| 13:26.22 |
gioacchino |
it ave all
menu' but it use X window |
| 13:26.53 |
gioacchino |
when I run
mged from terminal it not have menu but i can use ogl
wondow |
| 13:27.00 |
elite01_ |
uuh sorry, no
idea |
| 13:27.56 |
``Erik |
X and OpenGL
are two different API's... I usually use /dev/X |
| 13:28.12 |
``Erik |
why are you
trying to explicitely start an FB server? |
| 13:28.34 |
``Erik |
when you run
'rt' in mged, it automatically takes care of all that for
you |
| 13:28.46 |
gioacchino |
I am a new
bie |
| 13:29.01 |
gioacchino |
I try to make
the cup of manual |
| 13:29.14 |
``Erik |
huh, and they
say to run an fbserv? odd |
| 13:29.24 |
gioacchino |
yes |
| 13:29.36 |
gioacchino |
fbserv before
rt |
| 13:29.49 |
``Erik |
um, if you
have geometry displayed in your graphical edit window (the line
drawing), you can run "rt -F/dev/Xl" |
| 13:30.13 |
gioacchino |
one
question |
| 13:30.17 |
``Erik |
-F/dev/Xl
translates to set the X device as the framebuffer and
linger |
| 13:30.24 |
gioacchino |
whe I run
mged from kde menu |
| 13:30.32 |
gioacchino |
it have
friendly menus |
| 13:30.39 |
gioacchino |
but it not
run opengl |
| 13:30.56 |
``Erik |
Chances are
that opengl will not buy you anything |
| 13:30.58 |
gioacchino |
how to run it
with opengl from kdemenu ? |
| 13:31.10 |
``Erik |
it shows
wireframe either way |
| 13:31.21 |
elite01_ |
uhm need to
go for a while, see you later |
| 13:31.34 |
``Erik |
they're not
visible different... filled triangles is on the todo list (called
"shaded geometry" at the moment) |
| 13:31.50 |
gioacchino |
ha |
| 13:31.59 |
gioacchino |
X and opengl
are the same ? |
| 13:32.07 |
``Erik |
yeah, it
sucks, we need to fix it, but we're fighting mgmt on it
:) |
| 13:32.12 |
``Erik |
they look the
same at the moment |
| 13:32.21 |
``Erik |
they just use
different subsystems to draw the lines |
| 13:32.28 |
gioacchino |
I was thinf
opengl most powerfull because my videocard support it
strongly |
| 13:32.35 |
``Erik |
the OGL
display is all glBegin(GL_LINE); |
| 13:32.54 |
gioacchino |
and how to
start with menus from terminal ? |
| 13:32.59 |
``Erik |
if we had
shaded display, you'd be right... but we're all wireframe at the
moment, so it doesn't really matter :( |
| 13:33.20 |
``Erik |
the menus?
you mean the GUI? you have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path,
then run "mged" |
| 13:33.50 |
gioacchino |
I try
now |
| 13:34.10 |
gioacchino |
ok now
work |
| 13:34.19 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 13:34.46 |
gioacchino |
before I
have use ln -s mged on usr/bin but it start without menu' only the
visualization winow |
| 13:35.14 |
``Erik |
hum, mebbe it
couldn't find the right tcl parts *shrug* |
| 13:35.18 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't know |
| 13:35.30 |
gioacchino |
mmmmmmm |
| 13:35.39 |
``Erik |
but there are
~400 programs in /usr/brlcad/bin and a lot of buttons in the gui
just run "programname" |
| 13:35.49 |
gioacchino |
but if I run
mged -n the menus isn't |
| 13:35.55 |
``Erik |
so you really
do need that directory in the path |
| 13:36.08 |
gioacchino |
I have add
the directory inb the path |
| 13:36.46 |
gioacchino |
thi is echo
$PATH/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 13:36.50 |
gioacchino |
thi is echo
$PATH
/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 13:37.00 |
``Erik |
ok |
| 13:37.13 |
gioacchino |
but if
/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin
start mged -n the menus isn't |
| 13:37.20 |
``Erik |
except you're
echoing it |
| 13:37.22 |
``Erik |
not exporting
it |
| 13:37.47 |
``Erik |
unless I
misunderstand |
| 13:37.51 |
gioacchino |
ok I see bash
rc |
| 13:38.13 |
gioacchino |
export
PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 13:38.24 |
gioacchino |
this is the
command on bash.rc |
| 13:38.26 |
``Erik |
if it's in
your .bashrc, you have to log out and log back in for it to take
effect for the menu's... or source it in the term you want to run
it from |
| 13:38.38 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 13:38.46 |
gioacchino |
I restart x
server and relogin |
| 13:38.51 |
gioacchino |
see you
later |
| 13:38.52 |
``Erik |
ok, when you
do that |
| 13:38.58 |
``Erik |
start up an
xterm and run "echo $PATH" |
| 13:39.00 |
``Erik |
and make sure
it's in there |
| 13:39.01 |
``Erik |
ok? |
| 13:39.09 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 13:39.17 |
``Erik |
see you in a
minute :) |
| 13:39.56 |
*** join/#brlcad gioacchino
(n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 13:40.19 |
gioacchino |
ok Im
ready |
| 13:40.59 |
``Erik |
then run mged
*shrug* :) |
| 13:41.26 |
gioacchino |
it
work |
| 13:41.34 |
gioacchino |
mmmmmmmm |
| 13:41.40 |
gioacchino |
is the -n
param |
| 13:41.49 |
gioacchino |
whats -n
? |
| 13:42.04 |
``Erik |
on mged? I've
no idea |
| 13:42.17 |
gioacchino |
I see it on
manual |
| 13:42.27 |
gioacchino |
hem |
| 13:42.34 |
gioacchino |
when I use
-n |
| 13:42.51 |
gioacchino |
the windows
is blue and the menu isn't |
| 13:43.08 |
``Erik |
oh, 'n' is a
synonym for -c |
| 13:43.09 |
``Erik |
classic
mode |
| 13:43.12 |
``Erik |
you don't
want that |
| 13:43.23 |
gioacchino |
ok... |
| 13:43.36 |
gioacchino |
the manual
isnt wery clear... |
| 13:43.44 |
gioacchino |
and it work
partially... |
| 13:43.54 |
gioacchino |
I can see
anly some page |
| 13:43.57 |
gioacchino |
other
problem |
| 13:44.14 |
gioacchino |
when I
complie I must delete some error from makefile |
| 13:44.21 |
gioacchino |
esample |
| 13:44.27 |
``Erik |
from the
7.10.0 source tarball? |
| 13:44.33 |
gioacchino |
-Lyes/lib |
| 13:44.46 |
gioacchino |
I must
rewrite in -L/lib |
| 13:44.52 |
gioacchino |
[15:44]
<``Erik> from the 7.10.0 source tarball? yes |
| 13:45.15 |
gioacchino |
and I must
disable ADRT |
| 13:45.22 |
``Erik |
can you paste
the exact error to, uhhh, pastebin.ca or paste.lisp.org or
something? |
| 13:45.29 |
gioacchino |
because isnt
the file main.c and anothe file.c |
| 13:45.47 |
gioacchino |
this request
is too hard.. |
| 13:45.57 |
gioacchino |
because I had
fix it |
| 13:45.59 |
gioacchino |
I
try |
| 13:46.12 |
``Erik |
re-extract
the tarball in /usr/tmp or something and do it there |
| 13:46.19 |
``Erik |
then you can
delete it once you paste the error... :) |
| 13:47.53 |
gioacchino |
no I try
it |
| 13:48.04 |
gioacchino |
more than
10 |
| 13:48.28 |
gioacchino |
and I had
redownload the tar.bz2 archive more than 3 |
| 13:48.38 |
``Erik |
O.o
odd |
| 13:49.41 |
gioacchino |
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=429282 |
| 13:50.49 |
gioacchino |
the problem
with -Lyes/li to-->- L/lib is very hard!!! |
| 13:51.04 |
gioacchino |
I must fix
more than 150 makefile!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 13:51.12 |
``Erik |
hum, I'm sure
you don't want to be building jove |
| 13:51.19 |
gioacchino |
on the src
folder and subfolder |
| 13:51.33 |
``Erik |
it's an
obsolete reduced emacs clone |
| 13:51.36 |
gioacchino |
I wanth build
jove |
| 13:51.44 |
gioacchino |
but it cause
problem in making!!! |
| 13:51.50 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 13:52.02 |
gioacchino |
buth jove
isn't hard to fix... |
| 13:52.05 |
gioacchino |
is only 3
file |
| 13:52.12 |
``Erik |
for some
reason, you're getting "yes" substituted for
"/usr/X11R6" |
| 13:52.33 |
``Erik |
ohhh |
| 13:52.34 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 13:52.41 |
gioacchino |
I was
think |
| 13:52.48 |
``Erik |
ok, you did
"--with-x11", which is asking for WHERE your X11 is
installed |
| 13:52.55 |
gioacchino |
yes/lib is =
/lib |
| 13:53.05 |
gioacchino |
and I fix
with this |
| 13:53.11 |
``Erik |
if your X11
is in a normal place, like "/usr/X11R6", then you don't need to
give it that flag |
| 13:53.22 |
gioacchino |
but I not
know if /lib is rigth or wrong |
| 13:53.24 |
``Erik |
if you do
give it that flag, you have to tell it where, like
--with-x11=/usr/Xorg |
| 13:53.28 |
gioacchino |
but it
compile |
| 13:53.51 |
gioacchino |
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 13:53.59 |
gioacchino |
I'm very
studip!!! |
| 13:54.21 |
``Erik |
nah, just not
used to the perculiarities of automake |
| 13:54.21 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 13:54.38 |
``Erik |
that should
be fixed, though |
| 13:54.51 |
gioacchino |
but
./configure --help isn't more clear |
| 13:55.49 |
gioacchino |
now I
remake... |
| 13:56.35 |
gioacchino |
ADRT support
wath do it ? |
| 13:57.33 |
``Erik |
I'm sure you
don't want adrt at this time... |
| 13:58.15 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 13:58.37 |
gioacchino |
Java
Developer Kit support wath is teh advantage ? |
| 13:58.43 |
gioacchino |
I'm a java
programmer |
| 13:58.57 |
``Erik |
um, it makes
a JNI server thing for raytrace queries |
| 13:59.07 |
gioacchino |
I can create
java program with 3d animation ? |
| 13:59.13 |
``Erik |
so you can
use librt from java, sorta kinda... |
| 13:59.17 |
gioacchino |
[15:58]
<``Erik> um, it makes a JNI server thing for raytrace
queries |
| 13:59.28 |
gioacchino |
now I don't
nedd this ? |
| 13:59.48 |
``Erik |
well, for
USING the software, no... if you want to program in java using its
libraries, maybe |
| 14:00.05 |
``Erik |
um, look at
src/librtserver for the JNI stuff, that's what the jdk thing
enables |
| 14:01.47 |
gioacchino |
and how to
fix |
| 14:01.53 |
gioacchino |
jove
tutotrial ? |
| 14:01.59 |
gioacchino |
I not need it
? |
| 14:02.05 |
gioacchino |
and wath jove
? |
| 14:02.07 |
``Erik |
no, y ou
don't want jove stuff |
| 14:03.15 |
``Erik |
in talking to
the guy who wrote the java interface, there are several unreleased
parts, so the jdk thing won't be useful unless y ou want to write
the java infrastructure to support it... (if you do, send us a
patch!) |
| 14:04.30 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 14:04.40 |
gioacchino |
I study
it |
| 14:04.54 |
gioacchino |
if I fix it I
relase the patch |
| 14:05.00 |
gioacchino |
another
question |
| 14:05.20 |
gioacchino |
because the
makefile of jove is wrong on the official release ? |
| 14:05.55 |
``Erik |
yeah, it's
probably broken *shrug* none of the developers build
jove |
| 14:06.33 |
gioacchino |
thand on the
brl-cad istnt a manual to fix it.. |
| 14:06.37 |
gioacchino |
is very
strange!! |
| 14:06.57 |
gioacchino |
thank's for
helping |
| 14:07.12 |
gioacchino |
now I'm
buildng the fixed configure |
| 14:07.43 |
``Erik |
cool
beans |
| 14:08.20 |
gioacchino |
wath a param
to start it without asking of tipe of winodw ? |
| 14:08.33 |
gioacchino |
esample:
mged -X |
| 14:08.40 |
gioacchino |
ot mged
-ogl |
| 14:09.05 |
``Erik |
if it's
asking what type of window, that means you're passing it "-c" (or
"-n"), and you don't want that |
| 14:09.21 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 14:09.49 |
gioacchino |
I have maked
the benchmark |
| 14:09.55 |
gioacchino |
my machine is
very storng |
| 14:10.02 |
``Erik |
how many
vgr's? |
| 14:10.16 |
gioacchino |
Benchmark
results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of
5620 |
| 14:10.21 |
gioacchino |
I
have |
| 14:12.34 |
gioacchino |
asus p5w dh
deluxe + 1GB ram DDR2 800Mhz 4-4-2 + intel core 2 duo E6600
2*2,4GHz 8MB cache +nvidia En6600 silent 512MB ddr2 sse2 + linux
kubuntu 7.04 |
| 14:12.44 |
gioacchino |
wath you
bench ? |
| 14:13.34 |
gioacchino |
* wath's your
benchmark ? |
| 14:13.36 |
``Erik |
I d'no, lemme
go build and run |
| 14:15.49 |
gioacchino |
you go fast
;) |
| 14:15.59 |
gioacchino |
the making
process in long... |
| 14:17.01 |
gioacchino |
wath's your
OS ? |
| 14:18.29 |
``Erik |
bah, my copy
is broken |
| 14:18.34 |
``Erik |
I usually use
FreeBSD and MacoSX |
| 14:18.49 |
gioacchino |
I use linux
Kubuntu |
| 14:18.56 |
gioacchino |
I have only a
problem.. |
| 14:19.29 |
gioacchino |
My remote
remote controller(infrarend similar the TV) not work finly with my
release of Linux |
| 14:22.18 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dyndsl-080-228-187-239.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 14:22.31 |
gioacchino |
but all the
other work fine |
| 14:23.23 |
gioacchino |
can you
trasfer to me some your brl work ? |
| 14:23.36 |
gioacchino |
I not need
the .g file |
| 14:23.43 |
gioacchino |
only the
image rended |
| 14:23.52 |
gioacchino |
I dont want
modify it |
| 14:23.57 |
gioacchino |
I want only
see |
| 14:25.12 |
``Erik |
<-- coder,
not a modeller.... there're renders of models on the sourceforge
page... |
| 14:26.00 |
gioacchino |
hum
? |
| 14:26.12 |
gioacchino |
how to render
with mged ?? |
| 14:27.25 |
gioacchino |
and how to
save database.g ? |
| 14:30.00 |
gioacchino |
because on
file menu' |
| 14:30.02 |
gioacchino |
is
only |
| 14:30.07 |
gioacchino |
open and
new |
| 14:30.09 |
gioacchino |
but no
save |
| 14:30.45 |
``Erik |
it's
automatically saved |
| 14:31.46 |
``Erik |
and for
rendering, click "file", then "raytrace" |
| 14:32.09 |
gioacchino |
bvut when I
reopen the file.g it is black.. |
| 14:32.17 |
gioacchino |
the file is
void |
| 14:32.44 |
``Erik |
to get the
objects on the screen, you have to "e" them |
| 14:33.00 |
``Erik |
like, if you
called your object "foo.s", you have to do "e foo.s" in the command
window |
| 14:33.10 |
``Erik |
you can do
"tops" to see the top level objects in the file |
| 14:36.37 |
gioacchino |
now I
understand -n optio... |
| 14:37.05 |
gioacchino |
with -n it
show the object aoutomatical |
| 14:38.38 |
gioacchino |
mmmmmmm |
| 14:38.47 |
gioacchino |
I tri to
create the cup but not work... |
| 14:38.59 |
gioacchino |
on the view
windows are black.. |
| 14:39.03 |
gioacchino |
how to see
all ? |
| 14:42.00 |
gioacchino |
other
problem |
| 14:42.24 |
gioacchino |
whuen I close
mged from the x icon it not close close only the window |
| 14:42.31 |
gioacchino |
I must kill
it from pid... |
| 14:43.49 |
gioacchino |
HOW TO SE ALL
? |
| 14:44.03 |
gioacchino |
e name.s to
see a boject |
| 14:44.09 |
gioacchino |
how to see
all object ? |
| 14:45.03 |
``Erik |
e them all
up |
| 14:45.14 |
``Erik |
or group them
all into one toplevel object and e that |
| 14:46.47 |
gioacchino |
mged>ethem
all up ? |
| 14:46.57 |
``Erik |
no |
| 14:47.23 |
gioacchino |
mged>e
them all up ? |
| 14:48.05 |
``Erik |
when I load
up, say, ktank.g (in the examples directory) |
| 14:48.06 |
``Erik |
mged>
tops |
| 14:48.06 |
``Erik |
_GLOBAL
computer/ g17/ |
| 14:48.07 |
``Erik |
air/
engine/ tank/ |
| 14:48.30 |
``Erik |
so I would do
mged> e computer g17 air engine tank |
| 14:48.57 |
gioacchino |
you must
remember all name... |
| 14:49.08 |
``Erik |
the "tops"
command shows you the names |
| 14:50.19 |
``Erik |
(a file is
not a model, it's a database of models) |
| 14:50.38 |
``Erik |
oh, and my
vgr's... 22909 |
| 14:50.58 |
gioacchino |
heeeeeeeeeeee
??????? |
| 14:51.05 |
gioacchino |
wath your pc
???? |
| 14:51.08 |
gioacchino |
8 processor
? |
| 14:51.34 |
``Erik |
8 core
opteron |
| 14:51.41 |
gioacchino |
auz!!! |
| 14:52.05 |
gioacchino |
your is a
workstation processor.. |
| 14:52.10 |
``Erik |
I have 3 of
those, two 4 core opterons, a 12 core itanium2 (altix),
.... |
| 14:52.10 |
gioacchino |
my is a
digital home pc |
| 14:52.17 |
``Erik |
oh, I sit at
a dual g5 mac |
| 14:52.32 |
``Erik |
but I do all
my work on other machines... *shrug* |
| 14:54.15 |
gioacchino |
how to move
the image after rendering ? |
| 14:54.25 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 14:54.43 |
gioacchino |
before
rendering I can move and rotare image |
| 14:54.57 |
gioacchino |
now after the
rendering it is blocked... |
| 14:55.15 |
``Erik |
well, you
should see the wireframe moving... you can click "clear" in the
raytrace window |
| 14:55.54 |
gioacchino |
error could
not ezecute fbclear no such file or directori |
| 14:57.15 |
gioacchino |
but fbc clear
is in teh brlcad/bin folder... |
| 14:57.23 |
gioacchino |
and the
folder is in the path... |
| 14:57.35 |
gioacchino |
because it
tell me no such file file ?? |
| 15:01.47 |
gioacchino |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.00 |
gioacchino |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.27 |
gioacchino |
How to fix
this problem ??? |
| 15:12.51 |
gioacchino |
mged can't
use the other program of suite |
| 15:13.00 |
gioacchino |
it tell no
such file or directnry... |
| 15:13.14 |
gioacchino |
but the brl
folder is in the $PATH |
| 15:15.24 |
gioacchino |
!help |
| 15:26.18 |
gioacchino |
i HAVE FIX
IT!!!!!!!!!!!1 |
| 15:26.29 |
gioacchino |
before the
ecoprting $path |
| 15:26.40 |
gioacchino |
I have add a
link to meged no usr bin folder!! |
| 15:26.48 |
gioacchino |
now I had
remoe it and work!! |
| 15:43.33 |
gioacchino |
the broblem
now is |
| 15:43.47 |
gioacchino |
when I clear
it clear all not only rendering |
| 15:43.55 |
gioacchino |
and when i
run |
| 15:44.02 |
gioacchino |
e
name.s |
| 15:44.21 |
gioacchino |
i don't see
anywhere... |
| 15:48.19 |
*** join/#brlcad gioacchino
(n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:48.50 |
gioacchino |
anybody
online ? |
| 16:02.45 |
gioacchino |
how to save
the rendered image in a image format ? |
| 16:02.47 |
gioacchino |
esample |
| 16:02.53 |
gioacchino |
png bmp jepg
ecce cc |
| 16:05.30 |
``Erik |
-o puts it in
a pix file, then use like pix-png |
| 16:15.09 |
gioacchino |
mged>-o
out_file_name.png ?? |
| 16:17.56 |
``Erik |
rt -o
blah.pix myfile.g obj1 obj2 ... |
| 16:18.05 |
``Erik |
meh |
| 17:00.01 |
*** join/#brlcad gioacchino
(n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:23.50 |
brlcad |
gioacchino:
turn the framebuffer off |
| 17:24.11 |
brlcad |
there's a
checkbox on the raytrace control panel that will make the rendered
image disappear |
| 17:36.17 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@84-72-88-220.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:56.55 |
gioacchino |
mm |
| 17:57.49 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 17:57.51 |
gioacchino |
it
work |
| 17:59.49 |
gioacchino |
brlcad: noe a
question.. |
| 17:59.57 |
gioacchino |
if I run
mged |
| 18:00.03 |
gioacchino |
from prompt
it work |
| 18:00.30 |
gioacchino |
but if I run
it from kde menu' it work but can't use the other suite
tool |
| 18:04.36 |
gioacchino |
now I try to
fix it adding the export path at all bashrc |
| 18:05.12 |
IriX64 |
can try cd
/usr/brlcad/bin too then starting it |
| 18:05.33 |
gioacchino |
I ahave
already try but not work... |
| 18:05.43 |
gioacchino |
I rejoin at 1
minutes |
| 18:05.46 |
gioacchino |
bye |
| 18:08.07 |
*** join/#brlcad gioacchino
(n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:09.48 |
gioacchino |
how to export
the rendering in a imga? |
| 18:10.12 |
gioacchino |
es .bmp .png
.jpg ecc ecc |
| 18:11.07 |
gioacchino |
not
work.. |
| 18:11.14 |
gioacchino |
now I try
witrh sh script... |
| 18:11.27 |
gioacchino |
to start brl
from kde panel.. |
| 18:18.44 |
IriX64 |
mmm works
with Xming now |
| 18:22.13 |
IriX64 |
forgot
--prefix though, what the heck my windows now has a \usr dir
:) |
| 18:22.53 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 18:25.45 |
IriX64 |
anybody wanna
write a little directory utility, since quite obviously exec ls
won';t work |
| 18:29.09 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 18:29.21 |
smallfoot- |
try system ls
then |
| 18:31.23 |
smallfoot- |
system("ls"); |
| 18:31.33 |
gioacchino |
hello |
| 18:31.38 |
IriX64 |
there's no ls
on windows smallfoot |
| 18:32.04 |
IriX64 |
mmmmm wait a
sec |
| 18:32.29 |
smallfoot- |
system("dir"); //then :p |
| 18:32.42 |
smallfoot- |
though, the
output is different |
| 18:38.42 |
IriX64 |
now have an
ls but at what cost, 2 more dll'd come into play here
sigh |
| 18:38.48 |
IriX64 |
dll's
too |
| 18:40.27 |
smallfoot- |
:( |
| 18:40.35 |
gioacchino |
how to export
in image extension (jpg, bmp,png,gif ecc ecc) a
rendering? |
| 18:43.59 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/windowsside |
| 18:45.20 |
IriX64 |
gioacchino,
try sending it out as a pix and use the conversion
tools |
| 18:47.14 |
gioacchino |
wath the
conversion tools ? is in the crl suite ? |
| 18:47.51 |
IriX64 |
should hacve
file called pixtorle and stuff like that |
| 18:49.53 |
gioacchino |
pixtorle
file_name.pix ? |
| 18:50.32 |
IriX64 |
if you run
them without arguments they tell you how to use themselves
:) |
| 18:51.16 |
gioacchino |
gioacchino@server:~$ pixtorle |
| 18:51.16 |
gioacchino |
bash:
pixtorle: command not found |
| 18:51.45 |
IriX64 |
its in bin i
think |
| 18:51.56 |
gioacchino |
I control on
the folder.. |
| 18:52.18 |
IriX64 |
do an ls
pix* |
| 18:52.19 |
gioacchino |
mmmmmmmmmm |
| 18:52.25 |
gioacchino |
pix-orle |
| 18:52.29 |
gioacchino |
not
pixtorle |
| 18:52.33 |
IriX64 |
thats
better |
| 18:52.47 |
IriX64 |
i sorta know
:) |
| 18:53.02 |
CIA-22 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Fixed a
memory leak in rtserver |
| 18:55.29 |
gioacchino |
but it
generate file.rle |
| 18:55.39 |
gioacchino |
not .bmp ,
jpg gif ecc ecc |
| 18:56.35 |
gioacchino |
pix-png i
try |
| 18:56.46 |
IriX64 |
thers a whole
suite, i think one for each file type |
| 18:57.17 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
pick the windows side |
| 18:59.40 |
``Erik |
don't use
pix-orle, use pix-png |
| 18:59.55 |
gioacchino |
my pix pn not
work... |
| 18:59.57 |
``Erik |
pix-png -a
file.pix > file.png |
| 19:00.20 |
gioacchino |
a��V�u�z�������!���9<.e)�����H�Z��ɒ�1E��Z�@������~`Տ�~���y�G<d�y�+P�l�裪� |
| 19:00.21 |
gioacchino |
it write
tihs |
| 19:00.23 |
``Erik |
yes, it
outputs the png to stdout, cuz it's stupid |
| 19:00.30 |
gioacchino |
and not
createfile.. |
| 19:00.31 |
``Erik |
redirect into
a file, like I just showed you |
| 19:00.46 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 19:00.58 |
``Erik |
(that's on my
short hit-list of things to fix) |
| 19:00.59 |
IriX64 |
thanks
``Erik |
| 19:01.23 |
gioacchino |
gioacchino@server:~$ pix-png -a prova.pix
> prova.png |
| 19:01.23 |
gioacchino |
pix-png:
unable to autosize |
| 19:01.24 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 19:01.58 |
``Erik |
I mean, um,
normalize the interface set to a synergistic uniform something
something BUZZWORD BINGO |
| 19:02.11 |
gioacchino |
the outpout
isn't a sphere... |
| 19:02.32 |
``Erik |
"unable to
autosize"? hum, take away the -a and see if it works? how big is
the file? O.o |
| 19:03.16 |
``Erik |
pix-png kinda
expects a square file with the edges being a power of two iirc
(256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024...) |
| 19:03.54 |
gioacchino |
it not tell
me anithing but the result is not a sphere is a confuse image I try
with a new render... |
| 19:04.16 |
IriX64 |
like rt -s
512 ``Erik? |
| 19:04.38 |
gioacchino |
not
work... |
| 19:04.55 |
gioacchino |
it genereted
a bad confused image... |
| 19:05.25 |
smallfoot- |
IriX64:
http://rafb.net/p/emOqx494.html |
| 19:05.57 |
smallfoot- |
IriX64, i
found this code on the internets it can list files in the direcotry
and stuff like that what you said its like "ls" or
"dir" |
| 19:06.30 |
brlcad |
IriX64: a cd
to whatever path only works when "." is in your path (which it
should not be for various reasons) .. better to just type the full
path if you want to be sure (e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged) |
| 19:07.05 |
brlcad |
gioacchino:
to export a rendered image, you raytrace to a .pix file, and then
use one of the pix-* converters (e.g. pix-png file.pix >
file.png) |
| 19:07.21 |
gioacchino |
yes I use
this mecanism... |
| 19:07.27 |
gioacchino |
but it
generated |
| 19:07.34 |
gioacchino |
bud confused
image... |
| 19:07.52 |
brlcad |
pix are raw
image files |
| 19:08.01 |
brlcad |
so if it's
not a 512x512 image, you MUST specify the image
dimensions |
| 19:08.37 |
brlcad |
-a if you use
standard sizes, but I imagine you used the raytrace control
panel |
| 19:08.44 |
brlcad |
which will be
whatever size your window was |
| 19:08.54 |
gioacchino |
yes I use
raytrace control panel |
| 19:09.06 |
brlcad |
you see the
size in the raytrace control panel? |
| 19:09.27 |
gioacchino |
yes |
| 19:09.30 |
gioacchino |
now
work! |
| 19:09.32 |
gioacchino |
tanks |
| 19:09.37 |
brlcad |
type just
'pix-png' with no arguments and you'll see: |
| 19:09.38 |
brlcad |
Usage:
pix-png [-a] [-w file_width] [-n file_height] [-s square_file_size]
[file.pix] |
| 19:09.58 |
brlcad |
so pix-png -w
WIDTH -n HEIGHT file.pix > file.png |
| 19:10.01 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:10.06 |
``Erik |
s/^
// |
| 19:11.56 |
gioacchino |
brlcad: hot
to obtain more quality ?? |
| 19:12.03 |
gioacchino |
I use max
resolutio |
| 19:12.06 |
gioacchino |
1024*1024 |
| 19:12.16 |
gioacchino |
but I want
more quality |
| 19:12.33 |
brlcad |
gioacchino:
run rt directly on the mged command line |
| 19:12.50 |
brlcad |
rt -s2345 -o
somefile.pix |
| 19:12.58 |
brlcad |
that will
make a 2345x2345 image |
| 19:13.02 |
brlcad |
saved to
somefile.pix |
| 19:13.07 |
gioacchino |
this is the
max ? |
| 19:13.11 |
brlcad |
noo |
| 19:13.17 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 19:13.19 |
brlcad |
s/2345/whatever you want/ |
| 19:13.22 |
gioacchino |
ok |
| 19:13.37 |
brlcad |
might not
like going over 16000 .. been a while since I tested the upper
limit |
| 19:13.40 |
gioacchino |
I must run rt
form mged>terminal... |
| 19:13.51 |
brlcad |
you don't
have to run rt from mged prompt |
| 19:13.54 |
brlcad |
you can run
it outside |
| 19:14.01 |
brlcad |
but then you
need to specify what view you want |
| 19:15.42 |
gioacchino[away] |
tanks |
| 19:15.53 |
gioacchino[away] |
I go
ate |
| 19:15.54 |
brlcad |
cierto |
| 19:16.01 |
brlcad |
ciao |
| 19:16.11 |
gioacchino[away] |
sei italiano
? |
| 19:16.16 |
brlcad |
un
po |
| 19:16.20 |
gioacchino[away] |
vado a cena
:) |
| 19:16.24 |
gioacchino[away] |
che
piacere!! |
| 19:16.35 |
gioacchino[away] |
comuqneu ora
mi allontano torno dopo |
| 19:16.39 |
brlcad |
igualmente |
| 19:18.05 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.11 |
IriX64 |
smallfoot
thankyou, had to call scanit scanit2 though scanit already exists
:) |
| 19:18.40 |
IriX64 |
let me drop
it in and try.. |
| 19:19.19 |
CIA-22 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: Add the TK cpp
flags to the if_tk compile |
| 19:20.03 |
CIA-22 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: PhotoPutBlock seems
to take the interpreter as the first arg now? |
| 19:21.52 |
IriX64 |
mged> exec
opendir |
| 19:21.52 |
IriX64 |
Error: usage:
opendir dirname |
| 19:21.52 |
IriX64 |
child process
exited abnormally |
| 19:21.53 |
IriX64 |
mged>
|
| 19:22.07 |
IriX64 |
heh
thanks |
| 19:22.45 |
IriX64 |
should have
used pastebin, forgive. |
| 19:25.50 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
<--- the windows side is of interest |
| 19:28.19 |
brlcad |
IriX64: is
the exec opendir supposed to convey something? |
| 19:28.58 |
brlcad |
that's an
external tool, and probably one you wouldn't want/need to run from
mged at that |
| 19:31.11 |
brlcad |
``Erik: hey,
you wanna take a stab at the tcl/tk upgrade? |
| 19:31.35 |
brlcad |
a6 just came
out a few days ago, massive aqua tk fixes |
| 19:32.10 |
brlcad |
best to pull
from cvs though, according to daniel (aqua tk dev), to pick up a
build bug fix |
| 19:32.16 |
``Erik |
heh, uh, no?
:D |
| 19:32.31 |
brlcad |
fair
nuff |
| 19:32.37 |
``Erik |
I just want
the damn thing to build... I have linux chased down to a runtime
link error in db/ |
| 19:33.05 |
``Erik |
fbsd has a
multiple definition error for tk_close in bwish |
| 19:33.05 |
brlcad |
you have
build issues? I've got good builds everywhere |
| 19:33.10 |
brlcad |
oh, i hadn't
tested tim's latest stuff |
| 19:33.19 |
``Erik |
I have
breakage on leenewx and fbsd, jra reported issue on
linux |
| 19:33.28 |
``Erik |
tim's fault?
got a tar arn I can borrow? |
| 19:34.07 |
brlcad |
he removed
the tcl/tk --disable-shared from their configure, causes a variety
of tcl/tk symbols on a couple plats |
| 19:34.21 |
brlcad |
that's
probably the tk_close issue |
| 19:34.40 |
``Erik |
and he's
awfully idle |
| 19:34.42 |
brlcad |
s/symbols/duplicate symbols/ |
| 19:35.17 |
``Erik |
oh, I made an
obsd 7.10.0 build for clock (without brep) |
| 19:35.28 |
clock_ |
``Erik:
how? |
| 19:40.11 |
smallfoot- |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A |
| 19:40.59 |
smallfoot- |
IriX64, that
program in pastebin dont work? |
| 20:07.24 |
IriX64 |
smallfoot: it
works fine thanks, that abnormal exit is due to mged i
think |
| 20:07.32 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 20:07.50 |
IriX64 |
err
wait |
| 20:09.41 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/2eYE1B66.html |
| 20:09.52 |
IriX64 |
not quite
sure whats going on here |
| 20:09.55 |
*** join/#brlcad menotume
(n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 20:11.14 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/5IexEY90.html |
| 20:11.26 |
IriX64 |
works thanks
for your contribution :) |
| 20:11.53 |
IriX64 |
why two
passes? |
| 20:14.46 |
``Erik |
what's
"opendir"? you have an "opendir.exe" file? O.o |
| 20:15.49 |
IriX64 |
smallfoots
contribution to the effort. |
| 20:15.59 |
``Erik |
oookie,
:) |
| 20:16.31 |
*** part/#brlcad menotume
(n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 20:16.33 |
IriX64 |
works |
| 20:18.28 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/YSKJp738.html
<---- smallfoot lets have a belly laff :) |
| 20:19.00 |
IriX64 |
thats the way
it should always be with dos :) |
| 20:20.13 |
IriX64 |
if you set
your path right, you can exec anything on the system. |
| 20:20.36 |
smallfoot- |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqLvBUSJucg&mode=related&search= |
| 20:20.57 |
smallfoot- |
oh |
| 20:22.00 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 20:23.51 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/KmYWpf81.html
<--- works smallfoot |
| 20:24.51 |
IriX64 |
smallfoot if
i ever give this stuff out may i include your exe? |
| 20:30.05 |
smallfoot- |
it wasntmy
exe |
| 20:30.08 |
smallfoot- |
i found that
on google lol |
| 20:30.27 |
IriX64 |
;) thankyou
for finding it |
| 20:30.30 |
smallfoot- |
np |
| 20:30.45 |
smallfoot- |
actually, i
tried some code todo an own, but it wouldnt work, so i was like
argh, and googled instead lol |
| 20:30.59 |
smallfoot- |
so if you
release it, then clean it up, obscure it, and change the names of
variables, and style and stuff like that lol :p |
| 20:31.24 |
IriX64 |
you found it
it's yours :) |
| 20:31.28 |
smallfoot- |
hehe |
| 20:31.37 |
smallfoot- |
yeah, i found
it, because you wanted it |
| 20:31.39 |
smallfoot- |
but its
really simple code |
| 20:31.54 |
IriX64 |
i know but
i'm lazy |
| 20:32.14 |
``Erik |
O.o stealin'
code ain't cool |
| 20:32.34 |
IriX64 |
was going to
modify a disk scanner program but this is better |
| 20:33.33 |
IriX64 |
going to
include ls too thought what the hay 2 dll's |
| 20:35.56 |
IriX64 |
if it's on
google, it's not stealin ``Erik |
| 20:35.56 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:35.57 |
``Erik |
that's like
saying that copying something out of the library and claiming you
wrote it isn't plaigerism |
| 20:36.05 |
IriX64 |
who's gonna
claim they wrote it i'll gladly give proper credit |
| 20:36.07 |
``Erik |
almost all my
code is open source, on the internet, findable by google... but I
still hold the copyright and get highly upset when people "change
some variables" and claim they wrote it *shrug* |
| 20:36.07 |
IriX64 |
and
distribute source if they allow it |
| 20:36.08 |
``Erik |
and I've had
tht happen to my software before... |
| 20:36.19 |
smallfoot- |
its not
stealing code, its reusing code :p |
| 20:36.26 |
smallfoot- |
its like 10
lines of code or what? |
| 20:36.38 |
smallfoot- |
and its all
call to standard functions, its like the only way todo
it |
| 20:36.42 |
IriX64 |
changed
nothing but what was needed to make it work here, still does and
always will 2 pasess |
| 20:36.42 |
``Erik |
on the flip
side, my code has been incorporated into neat stuff like "icecast"
and a "electronic picture" device, they credited me, and it's
totally awesome that people are using my code |
| 20:37.18 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 20:37.23 |
``Erik |
if'n ya find
code, it doesn't matter how trivial it is, respect the license and
copyright o.O |
| 20:37.38 |
IriX64 |
of course, I
always try to |
| 20:38.06 |
``Erik |
<-- mostly
going off because of "04:30PM <smallfoot-> so if you release
it, then clean it up, obscure it, and change the names of
variables, and style and stuff like that lol :p" |
| 20:38.55 |
IriX64 |
I understand
``Erik. |
| 20:40.35 |
IriX64 |
how did i get
two copies of mged up? :) |
| 20:41.00 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 20:41.04 |
smallfoot- |
aff, got
disconnected |
| 20:41.10 |
``Erik |
guess you
could run it twice, but may get fb conflicts? why would you want
to? O.o |
| 20:41.21 |
smallfoot- |
one time i
wrote a database engine, that i based of hello_world.c and SCO sued
me :( |
| 20:42.08 |
``Erik |
sco'll be
delisted soon, then they'll just disappear O.o |
| 20:42.15 |
``Erik |
post-love
caldera really sucks monkey balls |
| 20:42.15 |
brlcad |
you can run
multiple mged's concern-free -- fb's are allocated
sequentially |
| 20:43.26 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot
(i=vc@c-625b70d5.041-5-73746f7.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:51.55 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
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| 21:17.57 |
IriX64 |
it was an
accident :) |
| 21:24.23 |
IriX64 |
if_tk.c in
libfb (tk_close) conflicts with same in dm-tk.c in
libdm |
| 21:24.35 |
IriX64 |
. |
| 21:26.38 |
IriX64 |
renamed mine
in libfb to tkk_close just to get a compile, looks happy so
far. |
| 21:27.50 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 22:25.01 |
IriX64 |
just what in
samhill is ssampview.exe? |
| 22:25.28 |
IriX64 |
in
src/rttherm |
| 22:25.55 |
*** join/#brlcad dli_
(n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-061.uchicago.edu) |
| 22:33.39 |
``Erik |
viewer for
ssamp files |
| 22:34.05 |
``Erik |
man
rttherm |
| 22:51.23 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 22:56.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
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| 04:09.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 04:09.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: add
a deprecation list for keeping track of when things can be marked
obsolete |
| 04:09.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: and
subsequently removed. the general guidelines are to allow removal
during a |
| 04:09.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
major update, after at least three minor updates, or after six
months .. |
| 04:09.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
whichever comes first. |
| 04:10.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bomb.c: rt_bomb() has technically
been deprecated since before 7.0, but even our sources only loosely
reflected this via inclusion in compat4.h so begin deprecation now,
adding a deprecation message. |
| 04:14.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (110 files in 16 dirs): rt_bomb() has been
deprecated since before 7.0, but even our sources weren't properly
updated to reflect this change. update all of our sources to use
bu_bomb() now. |
| 05:05.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: include a contact
e-mail |
| 07:32.34 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
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*** join/#brlcad elite01
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*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 13:06.21 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Replace
"get" with "get_type" for all cases where it was being used to
determine the existence of an object. |
| 13:35.15 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877b0d.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:29.06 |
brlcad |
I'd made a
mental note to check out other polynomial root solvers to see if we
can get some free performance boosting to the more complex
primitives that use it for solving their
ray-intersection |
| 14:29.31 |
brlcad |
i finally got
around to testing some today, and have tested four so far that I've
run across .. |
| 14:30.07 |
brlcad |
not one has
come even close to the performance .. closest has been about 300%
slower |
| 14:31.28 |
archivist |
everone out
there re-inventing slower wheels |
| 14:32.09 |
brlcad |
i actually
didn't think ours was "that fast" .. |
| 14:33.39 |
archivist |
a nice shock
then |
| 14:33.42 |
brlcad |
I knew it was
good, but nothing ground breaking .. i'm just not even finding
anything in the ballpark |
| 14:34.01 |
brlcad |
well, it
could just be that I've just run across four lemons in a row
too |
| 14:34.14 |
brlcad |
but so far
yeah.. not too shabby for code that old.. |
| 14:35.48 |
``Erik |
y'know, I'm
under the impression that older code tends to be MUCH better
performance wise |
| 14:35.54 |
``Erik |
both
asymoptotic and constant |
| 14:35.55 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 14:36.45 |
brlcad |
jeff hanes
wrote the existing solver back in '85 |
| 14:36.46 |
``Erik |
machines were
slower, they couldn't afford the waste... take a look at regex
nfa's... ruby, perl, etc are all abysmal compared to early 70's
thompson nfa's (grep, sed), and even tcl blows the doors off of
perl for 'difficult' regex's |
| 14:37.42 |
``Erik |
got a paper
on my desk... lemme find the url... |
| 14:37.46 |
brlcad |
i was sorta
expecting to find a simd'd root solver somewhere that might have a
good hand at competing, but so far no luck |
| 14:38.10 |
``Erik |
http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html |
| 14:38.41 |
``Erik |
I THINK I got
the paper from http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2064 |
| 14:38.49 |
archivist |
heh I look at
some modern database stuff and the mid 1980s stuff had some very
good ideas that now seem forgotten |
| 14:40.04 |
brlcad |
``Erik: oh,
i'd fully believe that -- I ran into regex issues when I wrote this
extensive language filter for bzflag -- expressions that were
hundreds of chars long, complex patterns |
| 14:40.16 |
archivist |
early 60's
bah /me has a 1951 programming book on my desk |
| 14:40.22 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 14:40.45 |
archivist |
actually a
M.V. Wilkes book |
| 14:40.52 |
brlcad |
i ended up
using the (old) version we have in cad on some systems because it
would crash various newer system regex libraries (debian was
one) |
| 14:40.53 |
``Erik |
brlcad: check
out the url I pasted, it might be worth your time :) |
| 14:42.01 |
``Erik |
a 30
character match taking 60 seconds using perl regex and 20 seconds
using thompson nfa in awk/grep |
| 14:42.03 |
``Erik |
er |
| 14:42.06 |
``Erik |
20
microseconds |
| 14:42.32 |
``Erik |
.00002
seconds |
| 14:43.04 |
brlcad |
yeah, i'm not
really too surprised by that |
| 14:43.24 |
brlcad |
though I was
only considering implementations already in the lower
graph |
| 14:44.18 |
brlcad |
my regex's
were hundreds of chars.. and I needed it to test thousands within
less than 10ms |
| 14:44.50 |
brlcad |
i had all the
timings worked out, it was rather expensive |
| 14:45.23 |
``Erik |
heh, (of
course, this is the pathological case... which is the word I was
searching for yesterday...) |
| 14:47.28 |
brlcad |
for the root
solving, it could also be the case that all/most were based off
some reference implementation that everyone just keeps copying,
maybe from graphics gems or something |
| 14:49.30 |
``Erik |
brlcad:
working from home today? |
| 14:50.12 |
brlcad |
just not
working |
| 14:50.33 |
``Erik |
ah :) guess
I'll stay in for luncht hen :D |
| 14:50.51 |
brlcad |
give me some
time to poke on some more interesting code stuffs (like the root
finding) |
| 14:51.16 |
``Erik |
opposed to
bzflag stuff? :D |
| 14:51.45 |
brlcad |
that
too |
| 14:53.49 |
brlcad |
heh, most
are |
| 14:54.48 |
``Erik |
mebbe after
my sexp/xml compilers, heh |
| 14:57.00 |
brlcad |
bah.. paper
not included in my ieee membership |
| 14:57.24 |
``Erik |
hum, think I
could get it through the portal? |
| 14:57.46 |
brlcad |
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/10248/32586/01524367.pdf?arnumber=1524367 |
| 14:59.03 |
``Erik |
/tmp on you
know where |
| 15:09.16 |
brlcad |
shweet |
| 15:10.16 |
brlcad |
gah, they're
solving arbitrary degree polynomials |
| 15:10.28 |
``Erik |
(but only
since it's explicitely for a BRL-CAD task and all official like
that, 'n shtuff, you coulda ran firefox on a work box to get it...
:D ) |
| 15:10.30 |
brlcad |
don't care
much past 4th |
| 15:10.47 |
``Erik |
hum, at least
not for the torus |
| 15:10.56 |
brlcad |
torus is
4th |
| 15:11.14 |
``Erik |
if the
meatball thing were converted to a root solve, it'd be nth
degree |
| 15:11.53 |
``Erik |
nurbles might
leverage >4, I'd imagine... but I don't know jack about
those |
| 15:12.16 |
brlcad |
the existing
will go higher than 4, it's just a compile-time limit |
| 15:12.51 |
``Erik |
one of my
test cases for the brute force approach was 10,000 control points,
which I THINK is a 10k order polynomial |
| 15:13.16 |
brlcad |
meatballs are
good to keep in mind .. though if you have them working direct
without root solver, that's probably a better solution
anyways |
| 15:13.36 |
``Erik |
I have an
approximation working, it's imperfect |
| 15:13.56 |
brlcad |
depends how
imperfect :) |
| 15:14.05 |
``Erik |
um, at the
moment, it walks the ray in 1/20 bounding sphere radius steps
looking for a sign change, effectively |
| 15:14.07 |
brlcad |
i mean they
are metaballs after all anyways too |
| 15:14.21 |
``Erik |
then does a
binary partition to find the 'close enough' point |
| 15:14.29 |
``Erik |
within like
1/1000 radius |
| 15:14.31 |
brlcad |
eek.. a
semi-newton iteration |
| 15:14.36 |
``Erik |
ayup |
| 15:15.01 |
``Erik |
so if the
volume were between initial steps, it'd be ignored |
| 15:15.08 |
``Erik |
which gets
edge artifacts :/ |
| 15:15.23 |
brlcad |
how does it
deal with the control points? |
| 15:15.30 |
brlcad |
iterates over
each? |
| 15:16.25 |
``Erik |
um,
$v_{V}=\Sigma_{i}\frac{f_{i}}{|V-p_{i}|}$ |
| 15:17.05 |
``Erik |
src/librt/g_metaball.c:203 |
| 15:17.06 |
brlcad |
yeah.. that's
not useful to me :) |
| 15:17.20 |
``Erik |
and
:220 |
| 15:17.39 |
brlcad |
ah, so it
does iterate over the points |
| 15:17.42 |
``Erik |
(shut up,
it's ugly, but it works) |
| 15:17.42 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 15:18.02 |
brlcad |
looks like it
always does shoot-through too |
| 15:18.08 |
``Erik |
has
to |
| 15:18.18 |
``Erik |
you don't
tknow how many chunks of volume it'll go through |
| 15:18.28 |
``Erik |
well, heh,
n/m |
| 15:18.55 |
``Erik |
let me
re-read, been a while since I've looked |
| 15:19.14 |
``Erik |
no, I think
it stops on first hi, always |
| 15:19.52 |
``Erik |
no, wait, I
do have one-hit in there, :259 |
| 15:20.53 |
brlcad |
ah, there it
is.. first line in shot() |
| 15:21.55 |
``Erik |
(bear in
mind, the "tactical" purpose for the work was to hook directly to
the point evaluator, the shot is just visual candy) :/ |
| 15:22.11 |
brlcad |
hm, would
actually be interesting to see how the root solver
fairs |
| 15:22.29 |
brlcad |
i'd suspect
it'd have trouble converging on arbitrary large-point
metas |
| 15:22.41 |
brlcad |
mebbie,
dunno |
| 15:22.44 |
clock_ |
brlcad: the
rendering seems to be extremely slow if screws cut in half are
present in the scene, even when they take up just a tiny amount of
pixels |
| 15:23.16 |
``Erik |
one of the
future enhancements was to go beyond point and handle line and
tri-mesh, perhaps totally arbitrary geometry... :/ |
| 15:23.31 |
``Erik |
which'd
greatly complicate the root solve method |
| 15:23.35 |
brlcad |
clock_: it's
shouldn't depend on the amount of pixels -- it would be how long it
spends on those pixels |
| 15:24.05 |
brlcad |
having them
in the scene is going to slow down neighboring pixels some too due
to space partitioning |
| 15:24.11 |
clock_ |
brlcad: I
made the screw a group of turns, each turn is a group of slanted
cylinders. So it has a hierarchical structure |
| 15:25.02 |
``Erik |
in the
geometry tree, it may b e clean... but the raytracing uses a
KD-tree, too |
| 15:25.06 |
brlcad |
your csg tree
might be unoptimized too, which could be slowing things way
down |
| 15:26.21 |
brlcad |
``Erik: do
you know anything about /var/tmp disappearing on .bz? |
| 15:26.26 |
``Erik |
no? |
| 15:26.38 |
brlcad |
it's been
getting deleted automatically for a couple days now |
| 15:26.39 |
``Erik |
anything in
the sudo log? |
| 15:26.41 |
``Erik |
ugh |
| 15:26.42 |
brlcad |
nothing |
| 15:26.51 |
``Erik |
grep -ri
/var/tmp /etc |
| 15:26.52 |
``Erik |
? |
| 15:27.14 |
``Erik |
also; sudo
crontab -l |
| 15:27.15 |
brlcad |
yup, nothing
of interest |
| 15:27.22 |
brlcad |
also
checked |
| 15:27.28 |
``Erik |
hum, /var/tmp
should only be deletable by r00tus r00tus |
| 15:27.44 |
``Erik |
none of my
boxen of that os lose their /var/tmp :/ |
| 15:27.49 |
brlcad |
exactly -- i
was (hoping) you'd set something up to see what all would
break |
| 15:28.15 |
``Erik |
no, if I'm
commiting crazy break testing, I do it on a machine I can walk to
and physically touch |
| 15:28.35 |
``Erik |
if you think
I'm willing to drive to florida to log in on console and fix
something, you need to pass that pipe O.o :D |
| 15:28.42 |
brlcad |
i've got a
watch thread going now to see if/when it disappears |
| 15:28.51 |
brlcad |
it's been
happening for like three days now |
| 15:29.21 |
``Erik |
the only
thing I've done on that machine in the last week or two is log in,
run irssi for a minute, kill irssi and log out |
| 15:30.37 |
brlcad |
i made a
symlink this time, no particular reason |
| 15:31.06 |
brlcad |
only thing
suspicious is rootkit attempts via http |
| 15:31.11 |
brlcad |
to
/var/tmp |
| 15:31.27 |
``Erik |
that'd be
bad |
| 15:31.50 |
brlcad |
but they
seemed rather benign .. they download a linux binary and try to run
it |
| 15:32.04 |
``Erik |
um,
linuxulator is off, right? |
| 15:32.08 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
get that far, of course, though even if it did, it'd fail (tested
it ;) |
| 15:32.14 |
brlcad |
right |
| 15:32.44 |
``Erik |
ummmmm, got
'fam' on the machine? |
| 15:32.48 |
``Erik |
or
tripwire? |
| 15:33.05 |
brlcad |
so i'm
thinking maybe some php intrusion is getting through.. but the
worst it can do is delete it's tmpdir |
| 15:33.49 |
``Erik |
but only root
should be able to rm that dir, and everything php/httpd should
touch should be www:www |
| 15:33.50 |
brlcad |
not at the
moment, though pieces of what those do are running |
| 15:34.41 |
``Erik |
might be
worth putting a tail -f on some /var/log stuff that dumps to
another machine |
| 15:34.42 |
brlcad |
i'm just
reaching.. it's the only hint that even generally involved
/var/tmp |
| 15:35.54 |
brlcad |
i'm going to
wait for the while test to fail.. so at least i'll have a timeframe
that I can hunt for in all the logs |
| 15:36.13 |
``Erik |
aight
*shrug* |
| 15:36.36 |
``Erik |
if it's
integrity related, that's serious |
| 15:38.37 |
brlcad |
i'm not
finding anything that indicates one way or the other so far, just
guessing |
| 15:39.00 |
brlcad |
just like
asking you was a guess that you might be up to something, however
unlikely |
| 15:39.14 |
``Erik |
nope, not my
doing |
| 15:39.38 |
brlcad |
noticed
/usr/tmp being added/removed for portupgrade through the searching,
figued "maybe" |
| 15:40.35 |
``Erik |
/usr/tmp was
added cuz it's "normal" to have it, and removed cuz you
complained... if portupgrade is doing it, *shrug* I d'no... but
I've been using portmanager and those all leave sudo
footprints |
| 15:41.04 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877b0d.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:48.20 |
``Erik |
hrmph |
| 15:53.04 |
brlcad |
i don't see
why i'd even care |
| 15:53.33 |
``Erik |
hrm, you
didn't want that dir there "to see what would break"
iirc |
| 15:53.56 |
``Erik |
wanna grab
lunch somewhere? I'm trying to decide whether to bust open a can of
soup or not :/ |
| 15:54.02 |
brlcad |
that was more
"it'd be interesting to see what breaks" .. though nothing
did |
| 15:54.11 |
brlcad |
didn't really
care either way to begin with |
| 15:54.39 |
``Erik |
<-- tries
to limit his involvement with that machine |
| 15:56.02 |
brlcad |
*shrug* |
| 15:56.51 |
brlcad |
ah, i already
started munching on a sandwhich about an hour ago when someone
mentioned food |
| 15:57.19 |
``Erik |
aight, canned
stuff it is :) I'm hitting the grocery store tonight, so'z I can
replenish my supplies, don't gotta worry about being down to the
last can |
| 15:58.35 |
``Erik |
heh, I'm sure
mm woulda loaned you a cup o' newdlez |
| 15:58.54 |
``Erik |
<--
prefers keeping cans of progresso, is getting old :( |
| 15:58.58 |
brlcad |
not my
fav |
| 15:59.22 |
brlcad |
i was on a
progressor fix a few years ago .. but that died down after a few
months |
| 15:59.56 |
brlcad |
ramen's never
died down though.. i turn those babies into gourmet |
| 16:04.44 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:05.45 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: disable unnecessary libtool test
for fortran |
| 16:06.37 |
``Erik |
(do we have
any fortran?) |
| 16:07.14 |
``Erik |
f2c would be
handy for "those other guys" |
| 16:16.23 |
brlcad |
we provide
one example file on how to shoot a ray in fortran |
| 16:17.30 |
brlcad |
so .. yes we
do, but we still don't need a fortran compiler |
| 16:17.30 |
``Erik |
hum, I see
two .f files |
| 16:17.30 |
brlcad |
oh yeah, one
in patch too |
| 16:17.36 |
brlcad |
also not
used |
| 16:18.02 |
``Erik |
if the
conv/patch one just a remnant? can it be rm'd? |
| 16:18.22 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 16:18.39 |
brlcad |
just a helper
tool to much with patch input files |
| 16:18.44 |
brlcad |
s/much/muck/ |
| 16:32.55 |
brlcad |
wow, the GNU
scientific library's solver is horribly slow |
| 16:34.51 |
brlcad |
gsl is 220
seconds vs libbn's 9 seconds |
| 16:35.10 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:35.49 |
brlcad |
i had higher
hopes for them .. |
| 16:36.13 |
brlcad |
theirs may
be, however, significantly more robust |
| 16:36.49 |
brlcad |
that could
certainly be affecting numbers.. but that is still a huge
gap |
| 16:37.15 |
brlcad |
best so far
has been about 30 seconds |
| 16:37.30 |
brlcad |
(solving 50M
random 4th degree polynomials) |
| 16:46.58 |
``Erik |
sweet, my
last car payments looks like it'll be around july 5th |
| 16:47.08 |
``Erik |
s/s /
/ |
| 16:55.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: change root solver to have coefficients
in the right order |
| 18:05.59 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: implement
b-spline interpolation: generating knots and parameters. next up:
generating the control points. |
| 18:37.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: convert use
of vector to TNT arrays. implement control point generation using
JAMA's LU decomposition. |
| 18:48.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: implement
nurbs curve generation. an attempt at simplification (test for
arc?) should be done at some point. |
| 19:16.06 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@77-56-106-32.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:52.47 |
brlcad |
well, finally
found one that is slightly faster, but it fails to produce a
solution |
| 19:54.05 |
``Erik |
"My diet of
McDonalds and pizza keeps me regular. I take one huge, painful,
bloody dump every four days; regular as clockwork." |
| 19:55.04 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 19:55.27 |
``Erik |
(yes, I'm
reading poll comments on slashdot. :( ) |
| 19:55.51 |
``Erik |
"When I wake
up in the morning, I just can't get started until I've had that
first, piping hot pot of coffee. Oh, I've tried other
enemas..." |
| 20:02.35 |
archivist |
hehe |
| 20:06.07 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
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| 20:12.01 |
brlcad |
hah, so it
was just slightly faster, because it was calling an _empty_ base
class.. that was all overhead |
| 20:19.27 |
``Erik |
neat, saw a
couple broad-headed skinks infront of the building |
| 20:21.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: commentification |
| 20:36.24 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: refactor complex.h and
plane.h |
| 20:58.55 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734947.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:49.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:33.55 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:33.55 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 23:35.56 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/avs.c: |
| 23:35.57 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
first stab at fixing a memory leak on attribute names -- appears to
be during a |
| 23:35.57 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
merge, where adding to an existing doesn't free the existing name
(when a new |
| 23:35.57 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: one
is provided). clean up the avs printing summary and doxygen
comments too. |
| 23:43.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: ws |
| 23:46.41 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:46.41 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 23:54.42 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: close/free file pointers and
buffers on shutdown |
| 23:55.36 |
*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601318.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:56.44 |
MinstrelGypsy |
tclUnixTime.c
in tcl/unix line 609, shouldn't that be _gettimeofday? |
| 00:20.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: should be fine to use
bu_bomb instead of abort as bu_bomb should not attempt to acquire a
semaphore (it doesn't use bu_log). |
| 01:11.56 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: add comment docs on bu_bomb
usage and add name given extensive changes over time. |
| 01:16.49 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 02:13.01 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 02:54.33 |
*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871953.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:54.36 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 03:02.41 |
MinstrelGypsy |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
windowsside albumn, 7.10.1 sorta working. |
| 04:13.15 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/tcl.m4: if we're on freebsd,
there should be no reason why we can't just use gcc instead of ld
-- this allows 'lib' flags being provided for XFT_LIBS via
xft-config to actually not break the build. |
| 04:31.39 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614282.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:55.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: set the ld_library_path so
the binaries invoked by the test can find the tcl/tk libraries.
also, write out the mged script to a file so that errors don't dump
the entire script. use solids.log for the log. |
| 05:07.33 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754495.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:13.39 |
jack- |
guys,
question..is adrt more mature meanwhile? like..should i include it
in a brlcad package? |
| 05:13.58 |
jack- |
(too lazy to
study changelogs, sorry!) |
| 05:14.29 |
jack- |
it's wicked
on macs, anyway |
| 05:14.40 |
jack- |
since SDL is
aqua (apple windowmanager) stuff |
| 05:14.47 |
jack- |
and the rest
is x11 stuff |
| 05:15.17 |
jack- |
so its not
too easy to get a smooth env while working, kind of |
| 05:25.49 |
brlcad |
jack-:
probably not |
| 05:26.02 |
jack- |
better leave
adrt out again? |
| 05:26.07 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 05:26.13 |
jack- |
ok, thx
:) |
| 05:26.22 |
brlcad |
it's not been
fleshed out build-wise with any sort of polish |
| 05:26.41 |
jack- |
thats np, i
mean i could dig minor build issues myself |
| 05:26.51 |
jack- |
but for end
users, as a frontend? |
| 05:27.01 |
brlcad |
it'll build
on os x, but it requires a fair bit of manual work |
| 05:27.19 |
jack- |
i know the
sdl tricks pretty well i guess :) |
| 05:27.19 |
brlcad |
and even once
you have it up, there is practically no documentation |
| 05:27.26 |
brlcad |
it's not
meant for end-user use just yet |
| 05:27.26 |
jack- |
ok |
| 05:27.33 |
jack- |
alright, no
adrt then |
| 05:29.33 |
jack- |
brlcad: no
clue if you're the one who tried to build/use it on mac os
x |
| 05:29.47 |
jack- |
but if you
want a much easier life for such things, just get fink |
| 05:29.58 |
jack- |
saved me so
much time+headaches already :) |
| 05:33.14 |
jack- |
brlcad will
appear in fink soonish, i'm just finishing my package |
| 05:33.54 |
jack- |
(http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jackfink
= me) |
| 05:36.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: mged_solids.log is no
longer generated |
| 05:38.24 |
brlcad |
er, i've
never "tried" .. i build it when i want to use it by hand
;) |
| 05:38.41 |
jack- |
:) |
| 05:38.57 |
brlcad |
glad to hear
someone's picking up the fink package for it |
| 05:39.00 |
jack- |
building
anything you know on a new system could always be seen as a
try |
| 05:39.10 |
jack- |
nothing wrong
with that :) |
| 05:39.25 |
brlcad |
i would, but
me and the fink devs differ on many issues that I just try to avoid
the conflict |
| 05:39.34 |
jack- |
oh |
| 05:39.38 |
jack- |
like
what? |
| 05:40.14 |
jack- |
in my eyes,
the dp/mp folks are way more of elitist whackos you can have
troubles communicating with |
| 05:40.20 |
jack- |
hence
fink |
| 05:40.50 |
brlcad |
nothing
important |
| 05:42.05 |
jack- |
i like
discovering and packaging great things like brlcad |
| 05:42.31 |
jack- |
sphinx is
kind of similar, an awesome opensourced speech recognizing system
done by edu folks |
| 05:43.22 |
jack- |
only stuff
holding that one back was some odd g95 thing, it just wont build if
you have fortran installed |
| 05:43.53 |
jack- |
unfortunately
a system component, outside of fink ;) i should hack the autoconf
files a bit |
| 05:44.05 |
brlcad |
yeah, sounds
like something in a configure.ac |
| 05:44.14 |
jack- |
yup |
| 05:45.12 |
jack- |
sdl is fairly
neat once you get used to shit on *.framework and use only the fink
stuff |
| 05:45.29 |
jack- |
some things
like sdl, mysql and so on are available from many sources for
macs |
| 05:45.36 |
jack- |
wicked..but
you can handle that |
| 05:53.36 |
brlcad |
sdl from the
sdl folks works well enough too -- but requires a fair bit of
build-system mods to support them regardless (at least
portably) |
| 05:57.38 |
jack- |
yup |
| 05:57.58 |
jack- |
or a fair bit
of packager brainwork to adapt stuff |
| 05:58.27 |
jack- |
i dont like
all the purely mac-ish things like frameworks, the unix way is so
much easier |
| 05:58.39 |
jack- |
and not any
less reliable if you know what you're doing |
| 06:03.05 |
jack- |
easier = more
portable..thanks to fink i only have to make sure stuff uses the
right include- and libdirs |
| 06:03.40 |
jack- |
and
autoconf/make-upstream is influenced enough to make sure it
works |
| 06:03.54 |
jack- |
so fink is
really comfortable, kind of |
| 06:04.08 |
brlcad |
is that a
soapbox you're standing on? :) |
| 06:04.18 |
brlcad |
to each their
own ;) |
| 06:04.27 |
jack- |
yeah |
| 06:04.57 |
jack- |
stuff is
getting harder now with intel vs ppc anyway |
| 06:05.15 |
jack- |
cant build
fat binaries and libs with fink yet :) but its ok |
| 06:07.32 |
brlcad |
did they
finally add smp build support? |
| 06:08.23 |
jack- |
not directly
through fink, but some even some core guys do it |
| 06:08.40 |
jack- |
np to get -j4
into your makeflags if you know what you're doing |
| 06:09.02 |
brlcad |
i know it's
doable, I made the mods for years |
| 06:09.12 |
jack- |
some stuff
wont work, but most stuff will |
| 06:09.28 |
jack- |
its just not
ripe enough to include it in fink for "users" |
| 06:09.51 |
jack- |
(people who
want to build things without being able to do the same stuff
"manually" from upstream tarballs or so) |
| 06:33.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (7 files): set the ld_library_path so
the binaries invoked by the test can find the tcl/tk
libraries. |
| 06:39.54 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work
(n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) |
| 07:42.27 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 08:07.54 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 09:10.51 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 09:28.09 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
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| 10:24.30 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-094-012.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:52.03 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876A32.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:13.02 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
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| 11:18.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Waimea
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| 12:36.30 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(i=thing0@124-168-78-7.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:36.38 |
thing0 |
hey
guys |
| 12:36.42 |
thing0 |
long time no
see |
| 12:36.51 |
thing0 |
haven't been
here in years :) |
| 13:35.38 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=sengun@krum.ethz.ch) |
| 13:43.43 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 14:03.44 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 14:16.44 |
bjorkBSD |
has it
changed much, thing0? |
| 14:17.02 |
tarzeau |
is it
possible make clean target is not very good? |
| 14:17.07 |
tarzeau |
like it
removes stuff that's needed? |
| 14:21.21 |
thing0 |
umm |
| 14:21.26 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 14:21.30 |
thing0 |
there is more
people ;) |
| 14:21.34 |
thing0 |
i've changed
too |
| 14:21.35 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 14:26.38 |
thing0 |
so how is
BRLCAD actually going? |
| 14:33.41 |
``Erik |
a little to
the left |
| 14:48.51 |
thing0 |
lol |
| 15:19.34 |
tarzeau |
itclStubLib.lo: In function
`Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 15:19.35 |
tarzeau |
/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71:
undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 15:19.40 |
tarzeau |
when i try to
build it (on debian gnu/linux) |
| 15:19.57 |
brlcad |
hello
thing0 |
| 15:20.32 |
thing0 |
hi
brlcad |
| 15:20.36 |
thing0 |
long time no
see |
| 15:20.43 |
brlcad |
tarzeau: can
you try to build latest CVS instead of .0 |
| 15:20.49 |
thing0 |
i've been
cadding it up lately |
| 15:20.50 |
thing0 |
:P |
| 15:20.56 |
tarzeau |
brlcad: sure.
let me get that |
| 15:21.00 |
brlcad |
the build
system has been in rapid flux wrt tcl/tk/itcl/itk |
| 15:21.00 |
thing0 |
actually got
a job as a CAD teacher |
| 15:21.01 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 15:21.10 |
brlcad |
thing0:
nifty |
| 15:21.22 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:21.24 |
thing0 |
but I
quite |
| 15:21.26 |
thing0 |
quite |
| 15:21.28 |
tarzeau |
any of you
use blender, wings3d, misfit model 3d and/or www.sauerbraten.org
? |
| 15:21.30 |
thing0 |
last
try |
| 15:21.31 |
thing0 |
quit |
| 15:21.32 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 15:21.47 |
brlcad |
tarzeau: i've
used at least two of those |
| 15:21.49 |
thing0 |
tarzeau: I
have used blender |
| 15:22.02 |
brlcad |
the first two
for me |
| 15:22.14 |
brlcad |
none of those
being a solid modeler or cad modeler too ;) |
| 15:22.32 |
tarzeau |
yeah i know
it's different stuff :) |
| 15:22.39 |
tarzeau |
that's why i
try to package brlcad (again) for debian |
| 15:22.48 |
tarzeau |
that ronja
friend's using brlcad |
| 15:22.59 |
tarzeau |
http://ronja.twibright.com/ |
| 15:24.01 |
brlcad |
he pops in
from time to time |
| 15:24.51 |
tarzeau |
clock-? |
| 15:26.34 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 15:27.19 |
brlcad |
unless that's
you and I'm getting nicks confused |
| 15:28.08 |
tarzeau |
no no that's
not me |
| 15:28.18 |
tarzeau |
you're
absolutely right |
| 15:28.31 |
tarzeau |
but i was
here too, i think a year or more ago |
| 15:28.54 |
tarzeau |
trying to
build the cvs version now |
| 15:29.36 |
thing0 |
how many devs
are working on BRLCAD? |
| 15:31.10 |
brlcad |
thing0: oh it
varies in any given week -- but about 4 or 5 regularly active
throughout this past year |
| 15:32.05 |
brlcad |
the magnitude
of activity also fluctuates heavily, as does peripheral support for
solving things like mathematics and algorithms issues |
| 15:32.43 |
thing0 |
ahh
ok |
| 15:33.10 |
brlcad |
one guy
working on FEA integration, another on build system and image
management refactoring, another implementing the brep support,
etc |
| 15:37.28 |
thing0 |
ahh
ic |
| 15:37.37 |
thing0 |
is there a
mechanical simulation? |
| 15:37.48 |
thing0 |
as in
gravity, force analysis etc. |
| 15:38.40 |
brlcad |
no
no |
| 15:39.08 |
brlcad |
that's quite
outside our scope at least at the moment -- that's partly why,
though, there are hooks to FEA being put in place |
| 15:40.32 |
thing0 |
hmm |
| 15:41.05 |
thing0 |
should join
up with that free physic engine group |
| 15:41.52 |
brlcad |
you need a
simulation environment for a physic engine to make sense
;) |
| 15:42.21 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:42.24 |
thing0 |
exactly |
| 15:43.08 |
thing0 |
hmm |
| 15:43.33 |
thing0 |
is BRLCAD
actually parametric? |
| 15:43.38 |
thing0 |
I cannot
remember |
| 15:43.45 |
thing0 |
I am on a
backup dialup account atm |
| 15:43.51 |
thing0 |
so the PDF is
really slow to load |
| 15:44.00 |
brlcad |
no, it's not
parametric |
| 15:44.09 |
brlcad |
though we're
moving towards adding that style geometric support |
| 15:44.35 |
brlcad |
brl-cad
supports multiple representation formats, but _prefers_ implicit
CSG constructions |
| 15:45.42 |
brlcad |
that said,
we're in the process of implementing brep support beyond the
existing support for meshes so that you can define parametric
surfaces |
| 15:46.16 |
brlcad |
that's
massive effort, though, and going to require a bit shift in the
editing side as well as the foundation geometric engine
aspects |
| 15:47.17 |
brlcad |
jason has
almost got the base brep support implemented in terms of
ray-tracing, quite awesome progress actually |
| 15:47.50 |
brlcad |
from there
we'll need to implement brep tessellation, brep on brep evaluation,
and csg to brep translation |
| 15:47.52 |
tarzeau |
still
/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71:
undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 15:47.57 |
thing0 |
ll |
| 15:47.59 |
thing0 |
well |
| 15:48.06 |
thing0 |
if I can
request a feature |
| 15:48.19 |
thing0 |
please make
the solids themselves parametric |
| 15:48.24 |
thing0 |
as
in |
| 15:48.30 |
thing0 |
the primative
shape |
| 15:48.31 |
thing0 |
s |
| 15:48.37 |
thing0 |
can be
deformed |
| 15:48.44 |
brlcad |
tarzeau: can
you pastebin the configure summary? |
| 15:48.45 |
thing0 |
no need to
make base sketches and then extrude |
| 15:48.56 |
brlcad |
it's in your
config.log near the bottom if you don't have it in a
buffer |
| 15:49.02 |
*** join/#brlcad smallfoot-
(i=smallfoo@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) |
| 15:49.03 |
thing0 |
this annoys
me greatly in the current group of parametric CADs |
| 15:49.07 |
tarzeau |
brlcad: sure:
http://gnu.ethz.ch/debian/brl-cad/brlcad_0+20070603-1_i386.build |
| 15:49.13 |
brlcad |
thing0:
that's all planned |
| 15:49.16 |
tarzeau |
500kb, very
bottom |
| 15:49.37 |
thing0 |
thank you
brlcad |
| 15:49.49 |
brlcad |
if you create
a sphere, it'll make just an implicit sphere -- but still let you
grab a point on that sphere and pull/poke it (at which point it's
automatically turned into a brep spline surface) |
| 15:49.50 |
thing0 |
I have yet to
look at onespaces offering |
| 15:49.59 |
thing0 |
ahh
nice |
| 15:50.07 |
thing0 |
what I would
like is that |
| 15:50.29 |
thing0 |
if for
example I made the mid of a sphere join to the face of a
cube |
| 15:50.48 |
thing0 |
I could
define the length of the sphere - cube with a parameter |
| 15:51.02 |
thing0 |
that is
mapped to the quadrant of the sphere |
| 15:51.08 |
thing0 |
and the end
of the cube |
| 15:51.49 |
brlcad |
sounds like
parametric constraints |
| 15:51.57 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:52.03 |
thing0 |
but in a
different way |
| 15:52.25 |
thing0 |
most CADs
would have this as a reference |
| 15:52.33 |
thing0 |
I want this
as a driving constraint |
| 15:52.45 |
thing0 |
sure I could
make this shape with a base sketch |
| 15:52.51 |
thing0 |
but that's
what I don't want |
| 15:53.06 |
thing0 |
cause if
someone picks a different spot to make a base sketch |
| 15:53.12 |
thing0 |
then the way
your thinking |
| 15:53.18 |
thing0 |
it becomes
ANNOYING |
| 15:54.31 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:55.00 |
thing0 |
we work in 3d
but still use 2d methods to make our 3d objects |
| 15:59.02 |
brlcad |
we, who's we?
:) |
| 16:00.12 |
brlcad |
brl-cad never
has supported 2d methods very well, or at all for the longest time
-- it was a long time before sketches were added and they're still
a bastard cousin implementation that are discouraged |
| 16:00.47 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 16:00.50 |
thing0 |
sorry
brlcad |
| 16:01.02 |
thing0 |
just thinking
of commerical parametric CAD |
| 16:01.12 |
thing0 |
had the sales
doctorine |
| 16:01.17 |
thing0 |
its in my
blood now |
| 16:01.18 |
thing0 |
:P |
| 16:01.42 |
brlcad |
autocad is
another story ;) |
| 16:02.47 |
thing0 |
ahh
yes |
| 16:02.50 |
thing0 |
autocad |
| 16:03.06 |
thing0 |
now with
solids that have histoy |
| 16:03.10 |
thing0 |
*history |
| 16:10.54 |
thing0 |
I was
teaching Autodesk Inventor |
| 16:11.01 |
thing0 |
but
yeah |
| 16:11.17 |
thing0 |
with AutoCAD
coming out with that 3d stuff in 2007 it was a bit
weird |
| 16:12.01 |
brlcad |
autocad will
probably forever be seen as the "2d approach" no matter how much 3d
they stuff in |
| 16:12.30 |
brlcad |
for 3d, you
grab unigraphics, pro/e, solidworks, or catia |
| 16:13.06 |
brlcad |
at some point
down the road, BRL-CAD will be in that list as well moreso than it
is today |
| 16:14.02 |
thing0 |
that would be
good to see |
| 16:17.13 |
thing0 |
how long do
you think it will take> |
| 16:17.13 |
thing0 |
? |
| 16:17.13 |
brlcad |
we have most
of the geometry engine aspects, particularly now with brep support
being integrated |
| 16:17.13 |
thing0 |
like |
| 16:17.13 |
thing0 |
there is a
bunch of free guys atm |
| 16:17.13 |
brlcad |
having a new
enticing gui will be where the win can be made |
| 16:17.21 |
thing0 |
ic |
| 16:17.30 |
brlcad |
most users
only care about the gui, not raw capabilities |
| 16:17.37 |
brlcad |
brl-cad has
extensive raw capability |
| 16:17.40 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 16:17.43 |
brlcad |
but a
difficult gui |
| 16:17.45 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 16:18.00 |
thing0 |
just needs to
be stupid simple |
| 16:18.06 |
thing0 |
for the
masses :P |
| 16:18.13 |
brlcad |
which is
contrary to cad design in general |
| 16:18.28 |
brlcad |
cad is a
complex domain, lots of different wants and
expectations |
| 16:19.07 |
brlcad |
there's a
reason there's nothing open source even remotely close to a
commercial package like pro/e |
| 16:19.09 |
thing0 |
yeah I
know |
| 16:19.40 |
brlcad |
aside from
the 100+ cummulative staff years that they invest every single
year.. |
| 16:20.10 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 16:20.22 |
brlcad |
because it's
a multi-billion dollar industry, everyone does their work in
private and throws major commercial money at problems |
| 16:20.22 |
thing0 |
but once the
product gets more brand regonition |
| 16:20.30 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 16:20.45 |
brlcad |
it's hard
enough to find open source talent that are interested/willing to
make things better |
| 16:20.53 |
brlcad |
even for
something completely open like brl-cad |
| 16:21.22 |
thing0 |
yeah I
bet |
| 16:21.24 |
thing0 |
I am still
thinking of what todo with my free time |
| 16:21.27 |
thing0 |
not sure what
yet |
| 16:21.43 |
brlcad |
there are
reasons for that too, even not counting the mathematics,
algorithms, and programming expertise generally needed |
| 16:22.17 |
brlcad |
it's just a
big task, hard to get momentum going on something that
big |
| 16:22.53 |
thing0 |
yep |
| 16:23.24 |
thing0 |
are you the
project manager brlcad? |
| 16:23.40 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 16:23.56 |
thing0 |
ic |
| 16:24.15 |
thing0 |
well |
| 16:24.26 |
brlcad |
one thing
that will hopefully spark activity that I'm looking to get in place
this year is setting up an on-going GSoC-style program |
| 16:24.48 |
thing0 |
Gsoc? |
| 16:25.01 |
brlcad |
~gsoc |
| 16:25.03 |
ibot |
gsoc is,
like, the Google Summer of Code, a program run annually by Google
to provide (paid for) jobs to students to code on open source
projects over summer. See http://code.google.com/soc/ for
details. |
| 16:25.16 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 16:25.28 |
thing0 |
i didn't know
they had an acroynm for it |
| 16:25.40 |
thing0 |
I forgot to
apply last year |
| 16:25.45 |
thing0 |
missed the
date |
| 16:25.50 |
thing0 |
I was PISSED
;) |
| 16:25.54 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 16:26.17 |
brlcad |
i missed the
(mentorship) submission deadline both the first two years by mere
days |
| 16:26.19 |
thing0 |
one of the
things I am looking at is trying to get some PM skills |
| 16:26.28 |
thing0 |
I am a
project engineer at the moment |
| 16:26.30 |
brlcad |
made it this
year, got bzflag accepted |
| 16:26.36 |
thing0 |
but I want to
be a PM eventually |
| 16:26.56 |
thing0 |
was trying to
find something that I am interested in to try to develop PM
skills |
| 16:26.57 |
brlcad |
titles are a
bit superfluous ;) |
| 16:27.06 |
thing0 |
so that I can
become a better PM |
| 16:27.10 |
thing0 |
yeah I
know |
| 16:27.26 |
thing0 |
but, its the
capabilities which is what I want |
| 16:27.58 |
thing0 |
i have spent
many a night doing work |
| 16:28.10 |
thing0 |
but if I
could harness other people |
| 16:28.13 |
thing0 |
could get
more done |
| 16:28.22 |
thing0 |
still
refining the skill of delegation |
| 16:28.35 |
thing0 |
need to be
able to create understandable tasks |
| 16:28.36 |
brlcad |
my roles
fluctuate between pm, architect, developer, code reviewer, tester,
interface designer, graphics artist, etc .. even though each is
really a "role" in itself |
| 16:28.38 |
thing0 |
:P\ |
| 16:28.46 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 16:28.55 |
thing0 |
brlcad is the
one man army |
| 16:28.56 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 16:29.27 |
brlcad |
yeah,
harnessing others and attracting development interest is one of the
hardest parts |
| 16:29.31 |
brlcad |
you need a
foundation for that |
| 16:29.33 |
brlcad |
both in the
project |
| 16:29.40 |
brlcad |
and in your
personality/goals/direction |
| 16:30.08 |
thing0 |
yep |
| 16:30.43 |
thing0 |
have you got
milestones set for this year? |
| 16:31.38 |
brlcad |
for what it's
worth, it's my belief that you have to not only be willing to do
the work yourself that you ask of others, but that you also have
the experience of having done the work you ask of them sometime
before (i.e. base technical experience) |
| 16:31.56 |
thing0 |
exactly |
| 16:31.58 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
are milestones as well as a rolling log |
| 16:32.14 |
thing0 |
because if u
haven't done it yourself |
| 16:32.15 |
brlcad |
the brep
steps I already mentioned |
| 16:32.21 |
thing0 |
how do you
know if they did it right? |
| 16:32.35 |
brlcad |
there are
other items documented in the TODO transcript, at least at a
low-level |
| 16:32.48 |
thing0 |
i
see |
| 16:33.00 |
thing0 |
is there a
mailing list? |
| 16:33.07 |
brlcad |
not so much
that they've done it right/wrong -- there are varying degrees of
both in any implementation |
| 16:33.13 |
brlcad |
there are
four mailing lists |
| 16:33.18 |
brlcad |
for different
purposes |
| 16:33.41 |
brlcad |
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292users |
| 16:33.46 |
brlcad |
oops,
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292 |
| 16:33.56 |
brlcad |
er, and
that's five |
| 16:34.00 |
thing0 |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:35.14 |
brlcad |
whether they
took the path you wanted or not isn't really the issue, it's
empowering them in directions that you know are good to be going in
and knowing what those directions are or need to be |
| 16:35.42 |
thing0 |
hmm |
| 16:37.13 |
brlcad |
regardless of
the "process" for getting them there or any given implementation
approach sometimes |
| 16:39.30 |
thing0 |
well brlcad
you have given me some stuff to think about |
| 16:39.58 |
brlcad |
thing0: for
what it's worth, the task of a cad package is big enough to have
entirely independent projects going -- if you wanted to exercise
your project engineering or project management skills, theres
undoubtely an area you could work on |
| 16:41.10 |
brlcad |
it's
generally set up as a meritocracy which basically means
participation and involvement (at any level, whether coding or
administrative or otherwise) are what dictate direction, voice, and
decisions |
| 16:41.39 |
thing0 |
hmm |
| 16:42.21 |
thing0 |
I just don't
want to commit to something unless I am going to stick with
it |
| 16:42.32 |
thing0 |
I hate doing
that ;) |
| 16:46.41 |
brlcad |
just saying
the participation door is wide open :) |
| 16:47.35 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 16:47.40 |
thing0 |
thanks |
| 16:47.44 |
thing0 |
:) |
| 16:50.15 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: use a shaders.mged
transcript so that error reports are more concise |
| 16:54.42 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: clean up after solids and
shaders |
| 16:55.50 |
thing0 |
brlcad I take
that you are Christopher Morrison |
| 16:59.03 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: remove
solids.mged |
| 16:59.48 |
thing0 |
in regards to
Gsoc would google be willing with them having sketchup |
| 16:59.50 |
thing0 |
? |
| 17:02.24 |
brlcad |
thing0:
brl-cad may or may not make gsoc itself, but we can certainly host
our own program in a similar style |
| 17:03.06 |
thing0 |
ahh
ic |
| 17:03.09 |
brlcad |
gsoc also has
several limitations of its own that we wouldn't have to impose like
only summer and only code |
| 17:03.22 |
thing0 |
lol |
| 17:03.50 |
brlcad |
we could do a
brl-cad winter of code for example, or even year-round running once
a quarter or something similar |
| 17:04.04 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:04.22 |
brlcad |
there are
interested groups that are willing/interested in sponsoring such a
setup for brl-cad |
| 17:04.31 |
brlcad |
and yes, i'm
morrison |
| 17:04.37 |
thing0 |
ic |
| 17:04.49 |
thing0 |
this could be
interesting |
| 17:05.12 |
brlcad |
could be very
interesting |
| 17:05.24 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 17:06.52 |
brlcad |
for a mere
staff year's funding, we could fund about 20 students for a
gsoc-level timeframe (about three months) -- that's way more than
we could handle right now managerially and with appropriate code
review and mentoring |
| 17:07.49 |
thing0 |
wow |
| 17:07.50 |
brlcad |
even having
just a handful students would accellerate interest and activity
exceptionally |
| 17:08.02 |
thing0 |
yeah I can
see that |
| 17:08.14 |
thing0 |
I think we
could do recruitment drives |
| 17:08.30 |
thing0 |
to
multidisplinary engineers |
| 17:08.34 |
brlcad |
yep, or even
just "task drives" to get things done |
| 17:08.35 |
thing0 |
not just
software |
| 17:08.41 |
brlcad |
ala month of
bugs style stuff |
| 17:09.06 |
thing0 |
I am thinking
Mechatronic (not just because I am one....) but because of the
mechanical/software interest |
| 17:09.24 |
thing0 |
or mech eng
who are doing com sci |
| 17:09.48 |
thing0 |
it is
interesting that you have funding |
| 17:09.58 |
thing0 |
the first
problem is usually funding |
| 17:10.21 |
thing0 |
but now that,
that is sorted the next is people |
| 17:11.01 |
brlcad |
yeah, getting
the mech-e, drafters, finite element analysts, solid modelers,
elec-e, and others all working together on tool(s) that we all want
and need |
| 17:11.49 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:11.50 |
thing0 |
oh |
| 17:12.02 |
thing0 |
not trying to
distract from the current goal |
| 17:12.09 |
thing0 |
but to
through it into the mix |
| 17:12.17 |
brlcad |
many of the
goals coincide though |
| 17:12.22 |
thing0 |
functional
based modelling |
| 17:12.23 |
brlcad |
it's just a
massive domain |
| 17:12.55 |
brlcad |
akin to the
diagram I put together .. it's generally all "CAD", but the
disciplines are vast with major overlap in some areas |
| 17:13.13 |
thing0 |
using
languages like modelica to describe the geometry |
| 17:13.20 |
brlcad |
though many
of the disciplines have different needs and
expectations |
| 17:13.20 |
thing0 |
in a
procedural like language |
| 17:14.24 |
thing0 |
yeah I
remember reading that paper by that guy from lockhead |
| 17:14.58 |
thing0 |
let me find
the reference |
| 17:16.40 |
thing0 |
http://www.voughtaircraft.com/ntcoe/presentations.htm |
| 17:18.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am gqa.sh spdi.sh
weight.sh): move more of the mged scripts to their own files so
that segfault failures on linux are more brief. |
| 17:19.22 |
brlcad |
heh, the
lockhead guy is apparently a lisp/scheme fan :) |
| 17:19.29 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:19.44 |
thing0 |
brlcad: have
you ever seen used modelica? |
| 17:19.51 |
brlcad |
ah, haskell
more specifically |
| 17:19.54 |
thing0 |
*seen/used |
| 17:20.23 |
brlcad |
his case
points are a huge reason why brl-cad was open sourced in the first
place |
| 17:21.04 |
thing0 |
exactly |
| 17:21.15 |
thing0 |
I HATE
properitary formats |
| 17:21.20 |
thing0 |
they are so
painful |
| 17:21.45 |
brlcad |
control,
long-term accessibility, implementation openness, cross-platform
identical behavior, NOT a proprietary binary format, uninhibited
license, etc |
| 17:22.28 |
thing0 |
yep |
| 17:22.44 |
brlcad |
"that's why
we're here" :) |
| 17:23.41 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 17:23.42 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:23.52 |
brlcad |
those ideas
for a functional language ascii file format are interesting --
there are certainly some tradeoffs but the base idea is
good |
| 17:24.21 |
thing0 |
PTC
engineering for there software has had huge chunks out sourced to
India |
| 17:24.31 |
thing0 |
this may seem
unrelated |
| 17:24.33 |
thing0 |
but I was
thinking |
| 17:24.34 |
brlcad |
it's actually
not far from brl-cad existing ascii file format, though we're
intently procedural via the tcl subset -- you're not going to get
functional without a functional language :) |
| 17:24.47 |
thing0 |
it is because
of the prohibitably costs |
| 17:24.55 |
thing0 |
that CAD
vendors are charging |
| 17:25.12 |
brlcad |
they charge
that much because they can :) |
| 17:25.18 |
thing0 |
exactly |
| 17:25.30 |
thing0 |
but PTC has
had a lot of competition lately |
| 17:25.35 |
thing0 |
so to cut
costs |
| 17:25.40 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's the
next closest competitor and our gui is painful enough that they're
not worried about us taking any business anytime soon |
| 17:25.44 |
thing0 |
design goes
to India |
| 17:26.03 |
brlcad |
next closest
open source competitor that is |
| 17:26.16 |
thing0 |
?? |
| 17:26.30 |
thing0 |
who is the
next closest open source competitor? |
| 17:27.13 |
brlcad |
brl-cad is
really the only open source package that is anywhere close to being
a competitor to the commercial packages |
| 17:27.18 |
brlcad |
and we're
still pretty far |
| 17:27.33 |
thing0 |
ahh
ok |
| 17:28.12 |
brlcad |
i mean there
are several projects that have a gui or mesh editing or maybe
parametrics or some other subset, but all of that really just
barely scratches the surface of everything you need to be a real
competitor |
| 17:28.33 |
brlcad |
the landscape
of what everyone wants really is massive, and takes a lot of
effort |
| 17:28.47 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:28.54 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
only as far along as it is because it's been under constant
development for over two decades now |
| 17:29.31 |
brlcad |
we certainly
have the capability to compete -- like I said, we have most of the
foundation -- we mostly lack in gui |
| 17:30.22 |
thing0 |
hmm |
| 17:30.29 |
thing0 |
it's sorta
funny |
| 17:30.32 |
brlcad |
last estimate
I saw puts brl-cad at roughly 500 man-years invested |
| 17:30.44 |
thing0 |
nice |
| 17:30.50 |
brlcad |
you wouldn't
think it looking at mged :) |
| 17:31.15 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 17:31.15 |
brlcad |
until you
knew it inside and out |
| 17:31.20 |
thing0 |
the GUI was
the thing that annoyed me the most in current CAD
systems |
| 17:31.31 |
thing0 |
I wanted more
of a consitent UI |
| 17:31.37 |
thing0 |
no dialog
boxes |
| 17:31.46 |
thing0 |
more sorta
consoleish |
| 17:31.49 |
thing0 |
in the sense
that |
| 17:32.23 |
thing0 |
that there
should be an area where the current tool should appear |
| 17:32.27 |
brlcad |
then there's
the problem of what is consistent to one engineer can be outright
"repellant" to another ;) |
| 17:32.30 |
thing0 |
it should
always be the same |
| 17:32.39 |
brlcad |
"current tool
should appear"? |
| 17:32.46 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:32.51 |
thing0 |
let me
explain |
| 17:32.57 |
thing0 |
when I want
todo an extrusion |
| 17:33.02 |
thing0 |
a dialog
popups up |
| 17:33.10 |
thing0 |
where I have
to fill in values |
| 17:33.19 |
brlcad |
mkey |
| 17:33.25 |
thing0 |
there should
be a part of the screen that is dedicated to it |
| 17:33.35 |
thing0 |
solidworks
sorta have the idea |
| 17:33.50 |
thing0 |
but it is not
that well implemented in my opinion |
| 17:33.52 |
brlcad |
ah, you mean
non-overlapping? |
| 17:33.56 |
thing0 |
still very
clunkey |
| 17:34.05 |
thing0 |
yes, non
overlapping |
| 17:34.16 |
brlcad |
yes, that's
something I've had a strong pet peave about |
| 17:34.23 |
brlcad |
modalities
and dialogs in general |
| 17:34.29 |
thing0 |
yes |
| 17:34.32 |
thing0 |
I want a
system |
| 17:34.41 |
thing0 |
whereby the
whole screen is the modal space |
| 17:34.58 |
thing0 |
move the
cursor over the edge of the screen and the bar fades in |
| 17:35.08 |
thing0 |
just like in
some IDEs |
| 17:35.20 |
thing0 |
MSVC 2003 and
up |
| 17:35.27 |
thing0 |
it just makes
more sense |
| 17:35.35 |
brlcad |
jason (the
guy working on brep) has an impressive design that is entirely
non-modal, non-overlapping -- very impressive, very new .. there's
not much out there like it interface-wise |
| 17:35.41 |
thing0 |
why waste
screen real estate on tool bars? |
| 17:35.55 |
thing0 |
woah |
| 17:35.58 |
thing0 |
sounds
cool |
| 17:36.05 |
thing0 |
sounds really
cool |
| 17:36.58 |
brlcad |
even has a
functioning prototype demo, although the demo is mac-only (as it
was just a mockup) |
| 17:37.17 |
thing0 |
ic |
| 17:37.34 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 17:39.46 |
brlcad |
the concept,
however, is pretty sound |
| 17:40.04 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:40.09 |
brlcad |
considering
using at least a lot of his ideas for the new editor
interface |
| 17:40.10 |
thing0 |
I am just
thinking |
| 17:40.30 |
thing0 |
have you
thought about what the toolkit will be for UI? |
| 17:41.18 |
brlcad |
here's some
of his thoughts on the matter, though he's writing from the grander
aspect of an operating system: http://www.imaginaryday.com/wiki/ |
| 17:41.38 |
brlcad |
the ideas
hold for any "big system" though that has to manage a slew of data
types and interactions |
| 17:41.47 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:41.52 |
brlcad |
i have though
a LOT about the toolkit for the UI |
| 17:41.57 |
thing0 |
have you seen
the interface of UGS NX5? |
| 17:42.33 |
brlcad |
the problem
is that there's not much that I'm happy with so I'd not settled on
anything at the moment -- only the high-level requirements from an
architecture and integration perspective |
| 17:42.45 |
brlcad |
yes, I
have |
| 17:43.15 |
brlcad |
i've got
screenshots of just about all of the major cad systems to compare
and contrast ideas and high-level layout |
| 17:43.23 |
thing0 |
that is one
thing that I always remember about UGS |
| 17:43.39 |
thing0 |
they claim
todo actual studies of users interaction with the
software |
| 17:43.41 |
brlcad |
adobe has
been leading the way, though, in terms of gui and
integration |
| 17:43.51 |
thing0 |
to try and
make it better with every release |
| 17:44.01 |
thing0 |
oh really,
adobe |
| 17:44.02 |
thing0 |
hmm |
| 17:44.04 |
thing0 |
cool |
| 17:45.24 |
brlcad |
yeah, I
worked with UGS pre-NX directly for several weeks analyzing their
gui and interaction methods -- even back then it wasn't too bad,
better than most really -- but it was still a complex system that
took extensive effort and training to get started |
| 17:46.19 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:46.38 |
thing0 |
but it seems
that all parametric cads are the same |
| 17:46.54 |
thing0 |
I don't seem
to have any trouble moving around |
| 17:47.24 |
thing0 |
I went from
Inventor to Solidworks to Inventor to UGS to CATIA to
Inventor |
| 17:47.34 |
thing0 |
i
mean |
| 17:47.42 |
thing0 |
it's all the
same philosphy |
| 17:47.49 |
brlcad |
yeah, once
you learn the domain, it's not so bad |
| 17:47.56 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 17:47.57 |
brlcad |
the entry to
that domain is heavy though |
| 17:48.01 |
brlcad |
very
heavy |
| 17:48.08 |
thing0 |
that's the
problem |
| 17:48.12 |
thing0 |
it doesn't
need to be |
| 17:48.16 |
brlcad |
you've got a
lot of expert knowledge and experience under your belt to be able
to do that |
| 17:48.49 |
thing0 |
I remember a
quote from a guy I taught, the domain seems to be counter-intuitive
sometimes with a lot of idosyncrincies |
| 17:49.20 |
thing0 |
everything
non inventor in my previous list was from curiosity |
| 17:49.40 |
thing0 |
I play with
the competition so that I could have a better understanding of how
the history of it all evolve |
| 17:49.41 |
thing0 |
d |
| 17:49.52 |
thing0 |
I don't want
to come across as a person who knows it all |
| 17:49.54 |
thing0 |
cause I
don't |
| 17:50.02 |
thing0 |
I am a tinker
by trade :) |
| 17:50.23 |
thing0 |
although, I
did use solidworks for a bit of a longer period |
| 17:52.55 |
brlcad |
sounds
familiar ;) |
| 17:53.39 |
thing0 |
Both of the
above waste my time (which I personally consider rather precious),
distract me from my work |
| 17:53.43 |
brlcad |
you at least
have an understanding and appreciation for how easy it can/should
be and want it to be better, that's great |
| 17:53.47 |
thing0 |
OMG I have
used that before |
| 17:54.39 |
brlcad |
so do you
code as well, or mostly user-level interaction? |
| 17:55.06 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you know how to code |
| 17:55.45 |
thing0 |
i taught
myself C when I was bored |
| 17:56.02 |
thing0 |
before going
to uni and sitting through a C class which I already
knew |
| 17:56.05 |
thing0 |
:) |
| 17:56.38 |
thing0 |
it's a skill
that I have used every now and then |
| 17:56.54 |
thing0 |
I am using it
at the moment at my current job to help automate some
tasks |
| 17:56.59 |
thing0 |
but I
mean |
| 17:57.06 |
thing0 |
it is
extremly simple |
| 17:57.16 |
thing0 |
I need to
ramp up my programming skills a bit |
| 17:57.21 |
thing0 |
they are a
tad dusty :D |
| 17:57.47 |
brlcad |
gotcha |
| 17:57.58 |
thing0 |
just had more
important things ;) |
| 17:58.13 |
thing0 |
teaching CAD
requires you to drive the program, not write it ;) |
| 17:59.10 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 17:59.39 |
brlcad |
whilst
working on the docs for brl-cad, code trickles almost to a
halt |
| 18:00.10 |
brlcad |
documentation
is a full-time job in itself, and a critical one depending on the
interface |
| 18:00.25 |
thing0 |
yeah I know
what you mean |
| 18:00.47 |
thing0 |
I have had to
be a heck of a lot more thoughtful in my little automation exercise
at work |
| 18:00.59 |
thing0 |
I want it to
be fully traceable |
| 18:01.15 |
thing0 |
cause the
software we are using from our client is a bit sketchy |
| 18:17.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 18:22.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Waimea
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| 18:30.25 |
brlcad |
there he be,
howdy Waimea |
| 18:35.12 |
akreal |
hello
everybody! |
| 18:35.57 |
brlcad |
hello
akreal |
| 18:37.10 |
thing0 |
hey
akreal |
| 18:38.34 |
akreal |
i see that
you discussed toolkit for the GUI, what do you think about
Qt? |
| 18:41.45 |
thing0 |
well |
| 18:41.45 |
thing0 |
I was looking
at this before |
| 18:41.45 |
thing0 |
just
recently |
| 18:41.45 |
thing0 |
Qt is quite
good |
| 18:41.45 |
thing0 |
I have
tinkered with it before |
| 18:41.50 |
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| 18:41.50 |
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| 18:42.40 |
brlcad |
Qt is very
good, their biggest limitation (imho) is their half-free licensing
(which makes using them political), perception of complexity, and
limited cross-platform support (i.e. to more than just win, mac,
linux) |
| 18:43.07 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
they're probably the best toolkit right now, with lots over their
biggest competitor, gtk |
| 18:43.44 |
brlcad |
that said,
they also push the same general gui interface of windows, icons,
desktops, etc with anything non-standard being just as hard if not
harder than going all-out custom (gui-wise) |
| 18:45.06 |
thing0 |
hehe I was
about to talk about the licensing issue, but I thought I would
check incase something had changed since the last time I played
with qt (a year or two back ) |
| 18:45.26 |
brlcad |
blender's
approach of a gui fully designed in opengl is a great one (imho) as
it is the most expressive for something as complex as this task
domain, but lacks in other regards of consistency and integration
-- that mainly being a limitation of their implementation itself,
though, and not opengl guis in general |
| 18:45.47 |
brlcad |
thing0: it's
bad enough that you had to check -- that's what causes the
political charge |
| 18:47.36 |
brlcad |
if you look
for opengl gui toolkits, though, there isn't much out there (that
I've found) that is any good |
| 18:47.37 |
brlcad |
the best you
can probably find popularity-wise is cegui |
| 18:47.37 |
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| 18:47.37 |
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| 18:47.37 |
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| 18:49.31 |
brlcad |
i have a
whole matrix of concerns written down in a spreadsheet somewhere
that talks about all of the various weighted considerations and
available approaches |
| 18:50.33 |
brlcad |
ah, here we
go |
| 18:50.40 |
brlcad |
tk, cegui,
gtk, qt, clangui, wxwidgets, agar, libgui, fltk, custom |
| 18:51.02 |
smallfoot- |
oh
many |
| 18:51.11 |
brlcad |
that was just
gui toolkits |
| 18:51.21 |
smallfoot- |
ya |
| 18:51.34 |
brlcad |
for windowing
and context management, that was a completely separate
consideration |
| 18:52.36 |
thing0 |
i used
fltk |
| 18:52.38 |
brlcad |
qt, clanlib,
osg, sdl, ogre, java, gtk, glut, wxwidgets, custom (in no
particular order) |
| 18:52.43 |
thing0 |
it was quite
good |
| 18:52.49 |
thing0 |
so simple and
lightweight |
| 18:52.55 |
thing0 |
fully
configurable |
| 18:53.02 |
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| 18:53.03 |
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| 18:55.15 |
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| 18:55.48 |
*** part/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy
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| 18:56.07 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
got lots of nice attributes and configurability |
| 18:56.16 |
brlcad |
even
customization, ala http://www.fltk.org/applications/images/SpiralSynth.png |
| 18:56.23 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 18:56.35 |
thing0 |
I was using
it on a personal project |
| 18:56.57 |
thing0 |
so I spent at
least a month or 2 using it |
| 18:57.04 |
thing0 |
was quite fun
;) |
| 18:57.05 |
brlcad |
their
downsides are similar to cegui though |
| 18:57.30 |
brlcad |
fixed widgets
iirc, not scalable -- and not drawn via opengl? (don't
remember) |
| 18:58.02 |
brlcad |
making
seamless integration with a 3d environment (widget-wise) a bit
difficult/impossible |
| 18:58.34 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 18:58.39 |
thing0 |
i
mean |
| 18:58.43 |
brlcad |
and they do
lose points on perception and popularity |
| 18:58.46 |
thing0 |
I cannot
confirm nor deny that |
| 18:59.22 |
thing0 |
based off UI
interface we were discussing before |
| 18:59.37 |
thing0 |
shouldn't we
just be looking at a open gl front end |
| 18:59.46 |
*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871953.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:00.22 |
thing0 |
hi
RodGallowGlass |
| 19:00.32 |
RodGallowGlass |
hey |
| 19:00.48 |
brlcad |
that's why I
broke it out into graphics context and gui separately since you can
embed many of the toolkits in any context |
| 19:01.59 |
brlcad |
even for the
UI discussed, that could still be implemented custom or via
toolkits like cegui, libgui, or customized versions of those
even |
| 19:02.16 |
thing0 |
ahh
ok |
| 19:02.19 |
brlcad |
RodGallowGlass: glad to read you made some
.1 progress :) |
| 19:02.24 |
thing0 |
I see what ur
getting at |
| 19:02.29 |
RodGallowGlass |
:) |
| 19:02.40 |
RodGallowGlass |
forced, i
hate forcing things ;) |
| 19:03.31 |
brlcad |
tis good
progress though |
| 19:03.44 |
RodGallowGlass |
yeah, I'm
happy |
| 19:03.45 |
brlcad |
and you
already helped pin a couple issues down in .1 |
| 19:03.56 |
RodGallowGlass |
didn't mean
to ;) |
| 19:05.58 |
RodGallowGlass |
could it be
possible the x11 summary report is inverted, i mean it said no x11
but seems to be building agaionst it anyway. |
| 19:07.35 |
RodGallowGlass |
well while
this churns away, i'm going to visit the garden, be back
later |
| 19:18.15 |
thing0 |
brb |
| 20:07.20 |
thing0 |
i'm going
now |
| 20:07.24 |
thing0 |
cya later
people |
| 21:19.16 |
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| 23:03.21 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: don't dereference null if
we're failing early |
| 23:18.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/moss.sh: fix call to pixdiff and
ws |
| 23:53.01 |
RodGallowGlass |
;) |
| 00:15.34 |
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| 04:05.01 |
*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass
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| 04:06.04 |
RodGallowGlass |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
<----- why can't I get 7-10 to do this |
| 04:06.28 |
RodGallowGlass |
windowsside
album |
| 04:07.27 |
RodGallowGlass |
framebuffer
came up sweetly, had four open at once |
| 04:10.40 |
RodGallowGlass |
hah faceplate
gui now works, i wont post another shot for now |
| 04:11.24 |
RodGallowGlass |
may I change
the version number on my copy of 7.8.4 or is that
prohibited? |
| 04:16.13 |
brlcad |
it's open
source, you can do wahtever you want with it... just what's the
point? |
| 04:16.46 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
provide any benefit |
| 04:17.54 |
RodGallowGlass |
to
distinguish what im doing from whats on sourceforge, or does the
stuff on sourceforge dissapear when a new release comes
out |
| 04:19.44 |
RodGallowGlass |
btw what are
you doing still up :) |
| 04:21.20 |
RodGallowGlass |
you worry
that I'll spread it around? |
| 04:21.56 |
RodGallowGlass |
it's not
going anyfurther than me and you unless *you spread it
around |
| 04:22.26 |
RodGallowGlass |
but im trying
to convert to 7.10 |
| 04:30.18 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: 1
quick q -- when rendering large DSPs, (like that pac. north west
stuff we were talking about) are gob & gobs of RAM typically
required? I've got 1G RAM, but am dying w/ insufficient memory...
can I tune rt? (I've even tried "-j 10,10,50,50", but still run out
of memory) btw, I've got 4G swap... |
| 04:32.13 |
brlcad |
it is an
in-core algorithm, so it has to be able to represent a 3D version
of the data in memory (which is some multiplier of the input
datasize that escapes me at the moment, but is larger of
course) |
| 04:32.47 |
brlcad |
the
acceleration structure it uses to progress fast through the dsp
also takes up some memory space |
| 04:33.22 |
brlcad |
how big is
the data set? |
| 04:33.27 |
yukonbob |
out of
curiousity, what are the specs of the machine you used to build
pugeot sound? |
| 04:33.50 |
yukonbob |
I'm using the
smallest of that Pacific Northwest set... |
| 04:34.10 |
brlcad |
the size of
the image being rendered doesn't matter much at all, it's the dsp
data itself that will likely dominate |
| 04:34.17 |
yukonbob |
37G |
| 04:34.32 |
yukonbob |
Megs, rather
:) |
| 04:34.42 |
brlcad |
hehe, i was
going to say... |
| 04:36.09 |
brlcad |
you mean the
puget sound dataset? |
| 04:37.50 |
yukonbob |
oh no -- I'm
talking about the whole region -- the specfic name I'm using
is...disappointment |
| 04:38.19 |
brlcad |
i mean this
is data you have then from some other source? |
| 04:39.07 |
brlcad |
more
importantly, when you create the dsp, does it show the wireframe in
mged? |
| 04:39.08 |
yukonbob |
"disappoint"
rather -- for Cape Disappointment -- it's from
http://duff.geology.washington.edu/data/raster/tenmeter/onebytwo10/ |
| 04:39.20 |
yukonbob |
wireframe
looks like I imagine it should... |
| 04:40.19 |
yukonbob |
1542x12018
data points |
| 04:40.25 |
brlcad |
can you post
up the .g somewhere so I can look at it? (can upload via anon ftp
to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming) |
| 04:41.03 |
brlcad |
hm, that is
indeed just 37MB |
| 04:45.45 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: can
you unzip bzip2 compressed-files? |
| 04:47.29 |
yukonbob |
"disappointment.dsp.bz2"
incoming... |
| 04:52.00 |
PrezKennedy |
i want
FiOS!! |
| 04:52.17 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
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| 04:56.03 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
disappointment.dsp.bz2 is uploaded --- I renamed the extention .dsp
for my own identification, but w/i the .zip archive, it was the
.bil file... |
| 05:03.28 |
brlcad |
looking |
| 05:06.41 |
yukonbob |
...then I
just open new db, and "in testmap dsp" file, [filename], 1542,
12018, 0, ad, 1, 1 |
| 05:07.31 |
yukonbob |
sometimes
I'll even get a malloc issue at this point, but if I restart gmed,
the 'testmap' is there, and seems usable. |
| 05:08.53 |
brlcad |
k |
| 05:09.05 |
yukonbob |
wireframe
looks "reasonable" and is zoom-able/rotate-able, etc., but a simple
"rt -o map.pix" chokes for me: |
| 05:09.30 |
yukonbob |
Additional
mem=8192., #malloc=34, #free=2, #realloc=1 (32 retained) 0
malloc1738539264 dsp_bb array |
| 05:09.33 |
yukonbob |
bu_malloc:
Insufficient memory available, sbrk(0)=xc745000 |
| 05:09.36 |
yukonbob |
bu_malloc:
malloc failure |
| 05:09.38 |
yukonbob |
Raytrace
complete. |
| 05:09.58 |
brlcad |
trying to
allocate 1.7GB |
| 05:10.50 |
yukonbob |
... I guess
I'm just shy, and that's that for that, then :P ? |
| 05:12.51 |
yukonbob |
otherwise, I
can strip data --- ie: remove every other column in odd rows, and
skip even rows to "take strips" out of data and interpolate
down... |
| 05:14.20 |
brlcad |
i'm not
convinced there's not something else going on, a bug that was
introduced perhaps |
| 05:14.57 |
yukonbob |
I'm running
7.8, btw |
| 05:15.55 |
yukonbob |
out of
curiousity, what are the specs of the machine that you rendered
Pugeot Sound with? |
| 05:15.56 |
brlcad |
have to
rebuild here, so it'll be a little while before I can
test |
| 05:16.00 |
yukonbob |
np |
| 05:18.24 |
brlcad |
iirc, I
rendered that on a dual G4 a couple years ago, 2GB ram |
| 05:18.57 |
yukonbob |
ok -- and
that dataset is substantially larger than
"disappointment"... |
| 05:19.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, using
the 16kx16k dataset .. about 500MB raw data |
| 05:22.59 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 05:23.24 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 05:39.52 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: fyi
-- I downsampled the data (stipped every second row, every second
column) to make dataset 0.25 of previous size, and still fails w/
malloc... |
| 05:42.08 |
yukonbob |
...and
occasionally fails w/ malloc on creating the dsp, and crashes...
but enough bug reports for tonight -- good evening :) |
| 05:50.06 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
thanks for the reports.. i'll have to call it a night as well and
pick up on this tomorrow -- it's highly suspect that you are just
up against some bug |
| 05:52.00 |
brlcad |
i'm curious
how you parsed dem data so quickly too... folks have begged for a
dem to dsp converter for quite a while |
| 06:45.19 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876DBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:46.32 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 06:50.55 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-066-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:19.24 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:58.37 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
well the good news is that I can reproduce the problem with that
data set, it goes into a frenzy getting stuck in an allocation loop
of some sort during prep |
| 07:58.58 |
brlcad |
shouldn't be
too hard to pin down since I can reproduce it .. let you know what
I find out |
| 08:01.47 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dsp primitive is going into what seems to
be an unbounded memory allocation loop inside dsp_layers during
prep, reported by yukonbob (thx) |
| 10:31.34 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 11:04.53 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.179.250) |
| 11:59.53 |
*** join/#brlcad deltazap
(n=deltazap@pool-71-251-104-132.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 11:59.59 |
*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD
(n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 12:01.10 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.179.250) |
| 12:07.06 |
tarzeau |
brlcad: what
is the status on modification and redistribution of the
Documentation at http://brlcad.com/ ? |
| 12:07.21 |
tarzeau |
brlcad: is it
possible to allow for change/redistribution in the documents? and
the sources? |
| 12:13.56 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-015-175.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:32.39 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876DBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:36.41 |
*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 12:37.39 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau:
hi |
| 12:37.48 |
tarzeau |
hi
Laniakea |
| 12:37.57 |
tarzeau |
karel! |
| 12:38.09 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea: how
are you able to build brlcad on linux? |
| 12:38.29 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea: and
do you know www.sauerbraten.org ? |
| 12:38.43 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: just
compile from the sources |
| 12:39.07 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: no I
didn't know sauerbraten |
| 12:39.10 |
Laniakea |
is it free
software? |
| 12:39.17 |
tarzeau |
yes it
is |
| 12:39.40 |
tarzeau |
i get this
error when i compile from the source: .libs/itclStubLib.o: In
function `Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 12:39.43 |
tarzeau |
/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71:
undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 12:40.41 |
Laniakea |
oh freeware,
sucks |
| 12:40.42 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau:
actually the latest brl-cad doesn't compile on my
openbsd |
| 12:40.49 |
Laniakea |
so I use the
one before :) |
| 12:40.56 |
tarzeau |
which version
is that? |
| 12:41.03 |
tarzeau |
why does it
not compile for you, same reason? |
| 12:41.18 |
tarzeau |
do you use
special configure parameters? |
| 12:41.53 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: the
working one is 7.8.4 |
| 12:42.02 |
Laniakea |
I don't
remember the nonworking one and don't remember the error
message |
| 12:44.51 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea: k,
i try that |
| 12:45.08 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea: any
links2 news? and will you play or model stuff in
sauerbraten? |
| 12:45.25 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: no,
since sauerbraten is not free software |
| 12:45.30 |
Laniakea |
we fixed some
serious bugs in links |
| 12:50.12 |
elite01_ |
Laniakea, the
engine is free |
| 12:50.53 |
tarzeau |
elite01_: i'm
working on free maps,textures,skyboxes |
| 12:51.01 |
tarzeau |
elite01_:
gonna find someone to make free music/sound effects |
| 12:51.24 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea:
wonder what those serious bugs are... |
| 12:51.39 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea: any
plan to stop development of version 0.x/1.x of links? |
| 12:56.45 |
Laniakea |
I don't know
about any plan |
| 13:00.30 |
``Erik |
what's the
error with 7.10.0 on obsd? |
| 13:00.52 |
tarzeau |
i might've
been missing libraries, retrying |
| 13:01.21 |
``Erik |
heh, damn, I
looked at sauerbraten and went "wow, that looks like cube, did cube
change its name?" |
| 13:01.33 |
``Erik |
is lee
(eihrul/phinode) still working on it? |
| 13:01.33 |
tarzeau |
``Erik: yes
:) |
| 13:01.44 |
tarzeau |
``Erik: it's
cube 2, yeah they do, on quakenet #sauerbraten |
| 13:02.18 |
``Erik |
when he was
going to cmu |
| 13:02.22 |
tarzeau |
heh |
| 13:02.26 |
``Erik |
small
world |
| 13:02.30 |
tarzeau |
indeed |
| 13:02.57 |
tarzeau |
did cube also
head the built-in editor? |
| 13:03.13 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 13:03.25 |
tarzeau |
sauerbraten
has a built-in editor |
| 13:03.30 |
tarzeau |
i
see |
| 13:04.28 |
``Erik |
um, my
interests were more science/engineering visualization, internals
(working on ogl drivers, etc) and I flirted a bit with making a
space combat game similar to the old xwing and wing commander
games |
| 13:04.38 |
``Erik |
"another fps"
wasn't really on my radar |
| 13:04.44 |
tarzeau |
i
see |
| 13:04.50 |
tarzeau |
it's also an
RPG |
| 13:04.54 |
tarzeau |
www.eisenstern.com :) |
| 13:05.13 |
``Erik |
heh, all my
free time is blown on WoW these days :( *cry* |
| 13:45.23 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-015-175.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:50.00 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667846.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:54.23 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(i=thing0@203-59-179-212.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:54.42 |
thing0 |
hey
everyone |
| 15:54.42 |
thing0 |
what's
up? |
| 15:56.36 |
elite01 |
thing0, the
ceiling *hahahalolololroflmao* |
| 16:04.28 |
thing0 |
lol |
| 16:04.36 |
thing0 |
funny elite01
funny... |
| 16:04.39 |
thing0 |
;) |
| 16:04.58 |
elite01 |
absolutely |
| 16:05.34 |
elite01 |
normally, i'm
not like that, but this is the low mark of the week |
| 16:25.49 |
``Erik |
uh huh,
rrriiiigggghhhhhttttt |
| 16:25.50 |
elite01 |
o
rly! |
| 16:25.50 |
``Erik |
damnit |
| 16:25.50 |
``Erik |
just hAD to
remind me |
| 16:27.36 |
``Erik |
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/lolcode_r.jpg |
| 16:27.37 |
``Erik |
awesome |
| 16:58.08 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.117.113) |
| 17:56.32 |
brlcad |
tarzeau: yes,
change/redistribution is allowed -- some are public domain, some
are BSD licensed |
| 17:57.03 |
tarzeau |
brlcad: is
that written somewhere? |
| 17:57.12 |
tarzeau |
i can't find
any info it's public domain or bsd licensed |
| 17:57.21 |
tarzeau |
hey
docelic |
| 17:57.57 |
brlcad |
tarzeau:
alas, the docs aren't doc'd very well :) |
| 17:58.11 |
tarzeau |
http://bp1.blogger.com/_MqThGo7hFdU/RldMKz1NEJI/AAAAAAAAAEA/qCFzfluWH94/s1600-h/ohalp.jpg |
| 17:58.18 |
tarzeau |
``Erik: for
ya |
| 17:58.30 |
brlcad |
i can tell
you as needed, it's generally a matter of whether the document was
created before open sourcing or whether it's a signficant
derivative |
| 17:58.42 |
docelic |
hey hey
tarzeau |
| 17:58.52 |
tarzeau |
docelic:
since where are you using brlcad? and what for? |
| 17:58.54 |
brlcad |
pre-open
source documents, like the tutorial series, are all public
domain |
| 17:59.02 |
docelic |
tarzeau: not
using, just interested |
| 17:59.22 |
brlcad |
those that
are "part of the sources" and mostly those in CVS are all BDL (BSD
doc license) |
| 17:59.29 |
brlcad |
and that's
stated in the COPYING file |
| 17:59.56 |
tarzeau |
ok
thanks |
| 18:00.03 |
tarzeau |
first need to
get the debian package properly done |
| 18:00.08 |
tarzeau |
docelic: i
see :) |
| 18:01.46 |
jack- |
tarzeau: how
are you handling the structure? |
| 18:01.57 |
tarzeau |
jack-: what
structure? |
| 18:02.05 |
jack- |
like, you
certainly dont want to stuff all the binaries into
$prefix/bin |
| 18:02.15 |
tarzeau |
jack-: all
binaries go into /usr/bin |
| 18:02.28 |
tarzeau |
if they are
not supposed to be run from users they go to
/usr/lib/brlcad/ |
| 18:02.30 |
jack- |
i let brlcad
completely reside in $prefix/lib/brlcad |
| 18:02.45 |
tarzeau |
jack-: and
you got debian (or ubuntu)? |
| 18:02.50 |
jack- |
(for
fink/macosx that is..pretty debianish) |
| 18:02.51 |
tarzeau |
jack-:
currently i'm not able to build it |
| 18:03.00 |
jack- |
yes, ubuntu,
but it doesnt matter for brlcad ;) |
| 18:03.01 |
tarzeau |
ah yeah, i
looked into fink lately |
| 18:03.05 |
jack- |
i'm a mac
guy |
| 18:03.08 |
tarzeau |
can you build
it on ubuntu? |
| 18:03.13 |
jack- |
never
tried |
| 18:03.19 |
tarzeau |
jack-: cool,
me too (indirectly, nextstep/openstep). you into cocoa? |
| 18:03.22 |
jack- |
does it break
at sdl stuff? |
| 18:03.26 |
jack- |
not at all
:) |
| 18:03.43 |
jack- |
..if yes,
disable adrt and leave it out |
| 18:03.50 |
jack- |
not mature
enough to be useful |
| 18:03.55 |
jack- |
and doesnt
like to get built |
| 18:04.00 |
tarzeau |
no, this is
the problem: |
| 18:04.13 |
tarzeau |
.libs/itclStubLib.o: In function
`Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 18:04.13 |
tarzeau |
/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStucollect2:
ld returned 1 exit status |
| 18:04.33 |
jack- |
hrm |
| 18:04.37 |
tarzeau |
.libs/itclStubLib.o: In function
`Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 18:04.37 |
tarzeau |
/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71:
undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 18:04.56 |
jack- |
and if you
get it to build its own libtcl/libtk? |
| 18:05.03 |
jack- |
can be done
with configure options |
| 18:05.09 |
tarzeau |
jack-: do i
want that? |
| 18:05.12 |
jack- |
maybe |
| 18:05.33 |
jack- |
i'm lucky
enough to have a brlcad-compatible libtcl api |
| 18:05.39 |
tarzeau |
you shouldn't
do that on debian systems.. but then |
| 18:05.48 |
jack- |
but my libtik
caused trouble too, so i just let brlcad do its own one |
| 18:05.52 |
tarzeau |
yuck src/ is
full of other projects |
| 18:05.54 |
jack- |
problem
solved, works 100% |
| 18:05.59 |
jack- |
yes
:P |
| 18:06.00 |
tarzeau |
what's the
configure options for you? |
| 18:06.05 |
jack- |
complete
UTAHRLE etc |
| 18:06.24 |
jack- |
./configure
--prefix=$MYPREFIX --otheroptions |
| 18:06.25 |
tarzeau |
maybe it's a
start to get ugly packages, then work them down |
| 18:06.35 |
tarzeau |
i want to
know your --otheroptions :) |
| 18:06.43 |
jack- |
just do
./configure --help and read that bible.. |
| 18:06.46 |
jack- |
ok hold on a
sec |
| 18:06.47 |
tarzeau |
ok |
| 18:06.56 |
tarzeau |
finishing to
build pixie first.. but then i'll check that |
| 18:08.00 |
jack- |
pixie rocks
:) great renderer |
| 18:08.32 |
jack- |
arent you
pretty jealous sometimes when you see those 200 extra repos and
20000 packages in ubuntu.. |
| 18:08.47 |
tarzeau |
not at
all |
| 18:08.52 |
tarzeau |
i hate
unofficial repos |
| 18:09.04 |
tarzeau |
they break
stuff, they are of lowest quality |
| 18:09.09 |
tarzeau |
i like to
have stuff in debian main |
| 18:09.11 |
jack- |
i can
understand that, yeah |
| 18:09.25 |
tarzeau |
ubuntu
doesn't have half as much of the software debian sid+experimental
has |
| 18:09.30 |
tarzeau |
jack-:
besides i'm a packaging whore: |
| 18:09.33 |
jack- |
oh? cool
:) |
| 18:09.38 |
tarzeau |
jack-:
http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=gurkan@linuks.mine.nu |
| 18:09.55 |
tarzeau |
(doing this
also at work, well got the job after i was doing many
packages) |
| 18:10.00 |
tarzeau |
pretty cool
actually |
| 18:10.32 |
jack- |
:) |
| 18:10.53 |
jack- |
http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jackfink |
| 18:10.55 |
jack- |
=
me |
| 18:11.09 |
jack- |
not less of a
packaging whore i guess |
| 18:11.12 |
tarzeau |
jack-: hehe
:) and i got like 33 ports in freebsd |
| 18:11.27 |
jack- |
but fink is
fun, i discovered pretty much all the stuff myself |
| 18:11.28 |
tarzeau |
i got a mac
os x box too at work, did we meet in #fink ? |
| 18:11.34 |
tarzeau |
i tried to
make some debian2fink tool |
| 18:11.38 |
jack- |
some things
never got packaged into any dist yet :) |
| 18:11.46 |
jack- |
might well
have been :) |
| 18:11.50 |
tarzeau |
jack-: check
http://gnu.ethz.ch/fink/debian2fink.txt |
| 18:11.56 |
tarzeau |
jack-: which?
which? |
| 18:12.00 |
tarzeau |
i'll make
debian packages :) |
| 18:12.26 |
jack- |
google for
sphinx project |
| 18:12.26 |
jack- |
some .edu
site |
| 18:12.27 |
tarzeau |
is there
stats of fink packages and its maintainers? i could add them to
http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/ |
| 18:12.47 |
jack- |
hmm, i'm not
in the core team..i'll check |
| 18:13.00 |
jack- |
think there's
no real stats system at all, yet |
| 18:13.27 |
tarzeau |
do you know
condor wisconsin ? |
| 18:13.39 |
jack- |
the name
rings a bell |
| 18:13.44 |
jack- |
but i have no
idea atm |
| 18:13.46 |
tarzeau |
job
distribution |
| 18:15.44 |
jack- |
cksfv,
evolvotron, bwm-ng, iftop, throttled are probably the rarest ones
on the list |
| 18:15.54 |
jack- |
not sure if
they ever got packaged anywhere else yet |
| 18:16.25 |
jack- |
packaging
stuff is sweet, somehow |
| 18:16.33 |
tarzeau |
oh evolvotron
looks interesting |
| 18:16.38 |
jack- |
100% legal
and still some kind of piracy ;) |
| 18:16.41 |
tarzeau |
jack-: yeah
many people get to use software |
| 18:16.42 |
jack- |
yeah it
rocks! |
| 18:17.06 |
tarzeau |
jack-: like i
found www.sauerbraten.org as a package, i got addicted to badly,
since a week |
| 18:17.07 |
tarzeau |
now to help
improve the game i found misfit model 3d and packaged it right away
:) |
| 18:17.14 |
jack- |
cool
:) |
| 18:17.22 |
tarzeau |
then stumpled
upon old wishlist bugreports like brlcad and pixie .. doing them as
well |
| 18:17.54 |
jack- |
once i know
you better, i'll tell you what made me discover sphinx2/sphinx3 and
like 5 other open source speech recognizin tools |
| 18:18.01 |
jack- |
life rocks,
somehow ;) |
| 18:18.24 |
tarzeau |
heh
k |
| 18:18.38 |
tarzeau |
if you ever
are bored check out my http://livecd.gnustep.org/ |
| 18:19.20 |
jack- |
nice
:) |
| 18:19.35 |
jack- |
like we have
a guy in #fink who does an own slackintosh thing |
| 18:19.38 |
jack- |
fun as
well |
| 18:20.02 |
jack- |
anyway, i
need to jump out |
| 18:20.05 |
jack- |
later
:) |
| 18:20.08 |
tarzeau |
jack-: you
know what fink package is missing? opencubicplayer |
| 18:20.10 |
tarzeau |
later |
| 18:20.16 |
jack- |
opencubic? |
| 18:20.20 |
tarzeau |
yeah music
player |
| 18:20.45 |
jack- |
better than
amarok/xmms/juk/noatun/beep/etc/etc? |
| 18:20.50 |
tarzeau |
http://cow.ethz.ch/ocp2.png |
| 18:20.59 |
tarzeau |
http://cow.ethz.ch/ocp.png |
| 18:21.07 |
tarzeau |
rly! kickass
i swear. |
| 18:21.24 |
jack- |
cute
:) |
| 18:21.32 |
jack- |
i'll check
what it needs |
| 18:21.47 |
tarzeau |
cu |
| 20:12.07 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:16.43 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 20:30.50 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.199) |
| 20:36.05 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@87.249.56.198) |
| 20:36.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: debug to stdout
instead of error (easier to log everything together) |
| 20:39.15 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Add more debug
statements... fix trim curve orientation issue (openNURBS trims
must be properly oriented whether or not the model-space curve is)
and fix isoparametric flag issue |
| 20:41.43 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: Fix IGES
string->double conversion bugs (duh) |
| 20:41.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-231-209.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:45.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Fix brep plot() problem
with non-trivial faces (i.e. those coming from IGES), perform
simplified edge rendering (still needs to be fleshed out to handle
non-linear curves) |
| 20:47.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add some
additional debug statements for testing pullback_curve
behavior |
| 20:48.14 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 04:39.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: |
| 04:39.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Added calls to wdb_create_command() since it had been removed from
wdb_obj_init(). |
| 04:39.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: Also
fixed a small bug where -f option would miss
differences. |
| 04:48.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (7 files in 6 dirs): |
| 04:48.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Eliminated more instances of direct access of interp->result
(not allowed |
| 04:48.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
since tcl 8.0) |
| 05:16.49 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 05:18.38 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
BRL-CAD heavily uses [incr tcl], right? |
| 05:19.10 |
brlcad |
mged and
rtwizard heavily use incrTcl |
| 05:19.17 |
brlcad |
and archer
iirc |
| 05:19.29 |
yukonbob |
=) -- what I
mean is sit idly by --- hopefully I'll be able to contribute some
useful code sometime :) |
| 05:19.30 |
brlcad |
i.e. the gui
tools do, but not the rest |
| 05:19.36 |
yukonbob |
ah... |
| 05:19.52 |
yukonbob |
but the 7.10
is dependent on the (still beta) tcl 8.5, right? |
| 05:20.17 |
brlcad |
there are
hundreds of "processing tools" that work in a unix fashion (can be
chained together, perform rather isolated tasks, command-driven,
etc) |
| 05:20.29 |
brlcad |
right |
| 05:21.00 |
brlcad |
8.4 can be
made to work, but there are about a dozen lines of code that would
need to be back-updated |
| 05:21.18 |
brlcad |
s/back-updated/patched/ |
| 05:21.29 |
yukonbob |
is there a
changelog 7.8->7.10? |
| 05:21.53 |
brlcad |
8.5 is needed
for the tk aqua fixes on os x though among a few other significant
fixes |
| 05:22.23 |
brlcad |
yes, see the
NEWS file for user-visible changes or the ChangeLog for all commits
release-to-release |
| 05:22.41 |
brlcad |
speaking of
the news file... |
| 05:23.04 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: 8.5
gets it's own native OO, iirc, kinda bases on Xotcl and snit...
that's why I was asking about [incr tcl]... |
| 05:23.21 |
yukonbob |
/bases/based/ |
| 05:25.03 |
brlcad |
hm, I've not
seen anything related to that actually |
| 05:25.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 05:25.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: john
fixed the units command, woot. it was an issue with
interp->result being |
| 05:25.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: used
where apparently it was an object instead of a string. this
apparently |
| 05:25.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: only
now biting us, probably due to the 8.5 upgrade, though tcl.h says
to stop |
| 05:25.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
using it since 8.0 |
| 05:25.16 |
brlcad |
i know tk
picked up that entire theming package |
| 05:26.21 |
brlcad |
and a couple
of the core tcl guys still work on incr tcl so it's quite far from
dead (i'm on their commits and tracker lists) |
| 05:29.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 05:29.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: john
fixed the units command, woot. it was an issue with
interp->result being |
| 05:29.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: used
where apparently it was an object instead of a string. this
apparently |
| 05:29.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: only
now biting us, probably due to the 8.5 upgrade, though tcl.h says
to stop |
| 05:29.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
using it since 8.0 |
| 06:11.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 06:21.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: can get/set with
units command |
| 06:23.21 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 06:31.33 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed a g_diff bug where -f option
missed differences -- now only calls atof the values actually seem
to be numbers. |
| 06:44.16 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__
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| 06:51.29 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: you
on? |
| 07:16.33 |
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| 12:22.50 |
*** join/#brlcad cris
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| 12:24.11 |
cris |
hi, I am an
AutoCAD user, and I'm searching for a CAD "4 Linux". Please, what
do you know about BRL-CAD? is it a good CAD? is it good for civil
engiinering projects ? |
| 12:28.34 |
Laniakea |
cris: it's
not good for CE because it doesn't have dimensions blueprint
anything |
| 12:29.27 |
Laniakea |
cris: look at
Qcad but that's 2D only |
| 12:29.32 |
cris |
Laniakea,
hum... :-( ok, thank you. but, do you know a CAD for
Linux? |
| 12:29.57 |
Laniakea |
I know just
BRL-CAD and Qcad |
| 12:30.05 |
Laniakea |
I doubt there
is a 3D cad with blueprints and arrows |
| 12:30.27 |
Laniakea |
I use BRL-CAD
and Qcad on my mechanics project |
| 12:30.43 |
cris |
yes, I know
QCad, but I dont like it, it isn't like autocad ... :-) |
| 12:30.44 |
Laniakea |
what is CE?
Is it building houses? Or making machines? |
| 12:31.04 |
cris |
Laniakea
-> CE = civil engennering |
| 12:31.24 |
Laniakea |
what is
it? |
| 12:34.45 |
cris |
Laniakea
-> I'm asking for a cad 4 linux to work with civil
engennering |
| 12:36.04 |
cris |
Laniakea
-> please, forget the last speak , CE = building
houses |
| 12:39.47 |
cris |
Laniakea
-> thank you |
| 12:48.53 |
Laniakea |
oh
houses |
| 12:49.01 |
Laniakea |
no I never
did houses, only mechanical stuff |
| 12:53.38 |
``Erik |
heh, we could
model the geometry, and I think we just got hte ability to convert
to nastran for FAE type activities, and we have an approximation of
edge drawing, and we can even do 2d overlay stuff... but there's no
"measurement" tool to generate dimension info |
| 12:57.20 |
Laniakea |
``Erik: I
just don't care about dims - I am happy that I am getting at least
what I am getting from BRL-CAD :) |
| 12:59.40 |
``Erik |
just noting
where it falls short : |
| 12:59.41 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 12:59.51 |
``Erik |
sure as hell
ain't gonna do shit about it right now, I'm on vacation
:D |
| 13:06.38 |
archivist |
after his
holiday of course |
| 13:06.50 |
poolio |
anyone know
if brlcad is going to be back today? |
| 13:12.40 |
``Erik |
he seems to
be back every day, is it something that someone else can help with?
O.o |
| 13:19.55 |
poolio |
``Erik:
Maybe, I'm starting work today and have a steady stream of
questions :P |
| 13:25.58 |
poolio |
Most of them
I'm able to answer myself if I spend the itme, it just would be a
lot faster with someone who knew the codebase |
| 13:31.48 |
``Erik |
some others
of us have some familiarity :) |
| 13:32.07 |
poolio |
Yeah but I
didn't want to interrupt you :) |
| 13:32.27 |
``Erik |
aight, but if
it's a 5 second thing *shrug* I'll help where I can |
| 13:33.33 |
poolio |
``Erik: I'm
mainly trying to get how to go about converting a CSG shape into
voxel data. So at the moment I'm trying to understand how to get a
bounding box |
| 13:34.18 |
``Erik |
uhm, after
you prep geometry, there's bounding box and bounding sphere
information |
| 13:34.41 |
poolio |
Yeah I see
that, but I don't need all the other rt stuff |
| 13:34.50 |
brlcad |
yeah, he's
around |
| 13:35.02 |
poolio |
Like I'm
looking at g_qa.c and it looks like rt_prep_parallel does all the
grunt work |
| 13:35.06 |
poolio |
brlcad:
morning :) |
| 13:36.09 |
``Erik |
g_qa,
heh |
| 13:36.16 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-092-241.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:37.47 |
poolio |
Also. it
appears make_bb in mged doesn't actually make the correct bounding
box |
| 13:38.06 |
poolio |
Or more
likely, I'm doing it wrong |
| 13:38.11 |
brlcad |
how so
? |
| 13:38.43 |
brlcad |
it's AABB,
not an OBB |
| 13:39.28 |
poolio |
Ah oops, the
issue was that I hadn't updated the framebuffer |
| 13:39.36 |
poolio |
d'oh |
| 13:54.15 |
poolio |
brlcad: Do
you think it's an OK starting point if I just took g_qa and
stripped it down to what i needed and worked off that code base for
the csg --> voxel-like form? |
| 13:54.55 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
viable |
| 13:55.54 |
brlcad |
note, though,
what part this actually is -- voxelization is one aspect of your
fitness function |
| 13:58.31 |
poolio |
and the aabb
is also needed for generation of the initial population |
| 13:58.58 |
poolio |
along with
eliminating invalid mutations |
| 13:59.24 |
brlcad |
sure, though
does g_qa help with getting the aabb? |
| 14:00.03 |
poolio |
brlcad: No,
but it shows me how to do all the prepping I need to do in order to
get it |
| 14:00.55 |
poolio |
Although I
think I'd have to try to eliminate rt_prep and do something at a
more lower level as the fitness function is going to be the main
bottleneck of the GA |
| 14:08.27 |
poolio |
Oh man, I'm
going to have to touch up on semaphores with all this multiple cpu
stuff :P |
| 14:14.04 |
brlcad |
that's
actually one of the nice aspects of g_qa is that it's already fully
multithreaded |
| 14:15.06 |
brlcad |
librt's
multithreading stuff isn't too complicated, you grab a semaphore to
protect your data accesses, then release it when you're
done |
| 14:17.30 |
brlcad |
those
routines are being run in parallel via that bu_parallel routine,
which says to call plane_worker() for N threads (ncpu) |
| 14:18.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yeah
I got that :) |
| 14:19.04 |
poolio |
I'm trying to
understand plane_worker and don't see why you shoot all the rays in
the first row, but then every other in the next row |
| 14:22.10 |
brlcad |
ah, that's a
particular aspect of g_qa .. it's a refinement grid |
| 14:22.26 |
brlcad |
since the
model isn't changing.. it's shooting a grid that is more and more
refined |
| 14:22.31 |
poolio |
So meaning
the grid spacing is decreeased and refined |
| 14:22.34 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 14:22.36 |
brlcad |
right |
| 14:22.44 |
brlcad |
so it doesn't
need to reshoot the spacings it already shot at |
| 14:22.58 |
brlcad |
big
performance savings |
| 14:23.00 |
poolio |
Ans so
because it halves the size each time you can eliminate re-shooting
every other one? |
| 14:23.08 |
brlcad |
right |
| 14:23.15 |
poolio |
Ah ok,
thanks |
| 14:23.43 |
brlcad |
not sure if
that will be any use to you since the models will be different
every iteration |
| 14:23.53 |
brlcad |
but shooting
the grid certainly will be |
| 14:24.27 |
poolio |
Well it will
be useful in the brief time you generate the voxel data for the
original unchanging model |
| 14:26.13 |
brlcad |
ah,
true |
| 14:26.25 |
brlcad |
shooting a
4x4, then a 8x8, ... |
| 14:26.47 |
poolio |
but I'd have
to modify it to not do that optimization for all the other
thousands (millions?) of times it runs on the
population |
| 14:27.34 |
brlcad |
right,
they're just going to shoot at a given resolution for a given
iteration |
| 14:27.51 |
brlcad |
and you could
then progressively refine that resolution as the fitness gets
better |
| 14:28.13 |
poolio |
I remember
you were talking a little while ago about when shooting the rays
I'll want to do a "slingshot" type thing to get a vector of the ray
and all the points it passes through. does g_qa implement
that? |
| 14:34.38 |
poolio |
one region =
one ray? |
| 14:40.46 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-121-145.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:41.03 |
thing0 |
hey
allll |
| 14:49.27 |
brlcad |
howdy
thing0 |
| 14:49.45 |
thing0 |
hey
brlcad |
| 14:49.50 |
thing0 |
how you
doing? |
| 14:49.58 |
brlcad |
poolio: not
sure what you mean by slingshot |
| 14:50.11 |
brlcad |
it does do
shoot-through rays |
| 14:50.17 |
poolio |
brlcad:
Firing a ray and having it return a vector |
| 14:50.19 |
poolio |
yeah that
:) |
| 14:50.27 |
poolio |
I don't know
why the word slingshot came to mind |
| 14:50.34 |
thing0 |
brlcad: did
you see my discussion with ``elite01 yesterday? |
| 14:51.04 |
brlcad |
thing0:
probably |
| 14:51.16 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 14:51.18 |
brlcad |
whether it
meant anything to me that I'd remember is a different question
;) |
| 14:51.24 |
thing0 |
the bit about
http://www.ode.org/ |
| 14:51.33 |
thing0 |
BRLCAD should
connect with this |
| 14:51.35 |
thing0 |
;) |
| 14:51.38 |
brlcad |
hm, i might
have missed that |
| 14:51.51 |
brlcad |
yeah, ode's
been "on the list" |
| 14:51.59 |
thing0 |
ahh
ok |
| 14:52.36 |
brlcad |
thing0:
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
.. "Material Properties" section, third bullet |
| 14:53.01 |
poolio |
somehow I
feel like what I'm doing isn't very useful ;) |
| 15:00.06 |
poolio |
brlcad: Is
there some sort of example with shoot-through rays? I'm having some
issues trying to understand all of rt_shootray() |
| 15:01.19 |
thing0 |
brlcad: I
dunno if Alias still has that format anymore |
| 15:01.27 |
thing0 |
being bought
by Autodesk and all |
| 15:03.08 |
brlcad |
poolio: are
you kidding? if this works, it will be amazingly
useful |
| 15:04.26 |
brlcad |
being able to
go from mesh and/or voxel explicit representations to an implicit
and/or boundary representation is very useful |
| 15:05.04 |
``Erik |
that's some
heavy stuff |
| 15:05.15 |
``Erik |
3d version of
computer image recognition, yo |
| 15:05.49 |
brlcad |
it's a means
to heal geometry, compress representations, reduce data, recognize
patterns, .. any one of those alone are worthwhile |
| 15:07.19 |
``Erik |
and advancing
the science of that is doctorate worthy shtuff, I'd imagine
:) |
| 15:08.20 |
poolio |
brlcad: Key
words _"if this works"_ |
| 15:10.04 |
brlcad |
even if you
implement the approach fully/correctly and it turns out to be a
disaster, that's still good research |
| 15:10.34 |
brlcad |
finding out
that a technique doesn't work well is just as useful as one that
works well |
| 15:10.59 |
brlcad |
that said,
given the results seen to date, I actually expect this will work
very well for some models |
| 15:11.29 |
brlcad |
implementing
the approach fully/correctly is the trick, and the brunt of the
hard work ;) |
| 15:12.57 |
poolio |
eh, first I
have to understand the basics of 3d shapes, then i might have a
chance |
| 15:14.14 |
poolio |
Could you gie
me a hand understanding some of this terminology? |
| 15:14.50 |
brlcad |
~hand
poolio |
| 15:14.56 |
poolio |
hoorah. |
| 15:15.08 |
brlcad |
hrm, no
literal for that one, shucks |
| 15:15.12 |
poolio |
So a
partition in the contex of a ray is the segment of the ray that
intersected a solid? |
| 15:15.22 |
poolio |
hah |
| 15:16.25 |
brlcad |
~hand $who is
<action> gives $who a hand, then promptly chops it
off |
| 15:16.25 |
ibot |
brlcad:
okay |
| 15:16.30 |
brlcad |
~hand
poolio |
| 15:16.31 |
ibot |
ACTION gives
brlcad a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:16.36 |
brlcad |
heh,
oops |
| 15:16.56 |
poolio |
dangling
modifier too |
| 15:19.32 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 15:21.24 |
brlcad |
~no, hand
$target is <action> gives $target a hand, then promptly chops
it off |
| 15:22.19 |
brlcad |
hm |
| 15:22.24 |
brlcad |
~hand
pooolio |
| 15:22.24 |
ibot |
ACTION gives
pooolio a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:22.32 |
brlcad |
good
enough |
| 15:22.32 |
poolio |
thanks. |
| 15:22.44 |
thing0 |
~hand
thing0 |
| 15:22.45 |
ibot |
ACTION gives
thing0 a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:22.51 |
thing0 |
yay! |
| 15:23.12 |
brlcad |
~whaleslap
thing0 |
| 15:23.12 |
ibot |
ACTION beats
thing0 upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale
named Hugh |
| 15:23.24 |
brlcad |
a
classic |
| 15:23.48 |
thing0 |
nice |
| 15:24.44 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
rt_shootray() passes to hit/miss a circularly linked list of
"partitions" where each partition represents a segment of the ray
vector where it intersected a solid? |
| 15:25.50 |
thing0 |
sleep now
me |
| 15:26.11 |
poolio |
thing0: what
time is it? |
| 15:26.19 |
thing0 |
2326 |
| 15:26.52 |
poolio |
wow. 12 hours
ahead of me. across the globe---> |
| 15:27.33 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:27.55 |
thing0 |
36 hours and
I'll be on a plane |
| 15:28.05 |
thing0 |
to a place
with limited net access |
| 15:28.06 |
thing0 |
so
yeah |
| 15:28.16 |
thing0 |
If I am not
here for like 3 weeks |
| 15:28.16 |
poolio |
enjoy? |
| 15:28.23 |
thing0 |
you'll know
why |
| 15:28.28 |
thing0 |
yeah it will
be awesome |
| 15:28.42 |
thing0 |
I'll be able
to work less hours and get paid more |
| 15:28.43 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 15:29.05 |
thing0 |
but |
| 15:29.06 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:29.09 |
thing0 |
got my
lapto |
| 15:29.13 |
thing0 |
got some
movies |
| 15:29.19 |
thing0 |
got
ut2004 |
| 15:29.19 |
poolio |
funf
un |
| 15:29.26 |
poolio |
good
times |
| 15:29.27 |
thing0 |
autodesk
inventor |
| 15:29.31 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 15:29.45 |
thing0 |
but |
| 15:29.51 |
thing0 |
I get one
week off when I get back |
| 15:29.54 |
thing0 |
so that'll be
good |
| 15:29.59 |
thing0 |
alrighty
guys |
| 15:30.04 |
thing0 |
i'll cya
later |
| 15:30.13 |
thing0 |
hopefully
decent enough connection down there |
| 15:30.20 |
thing0 |
otherwise 3
weeks |
| 15:30.21 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 15:30.23 |
thing0 |
have
fun |
| 15:30.25 |
thing0 |
bye |
| 15:30.35 |
brlcad |
wooo |
| 15:30.37 |
poolio |
cya, have
fun. |
| 15:30.39 |
brlcad |
cya
thing0 |
| 15:30.59 |
brlcad |
~bed
thing0 |
| 15:31.00 |
ibot |
ACTION tucks
thing0 into a warm bed. |
| 15:31.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: What
matrix math is VJOIN1? |
| 15:31.38 |
brlcad |
see
include/vmath.h |
| 15:32.38 |
brlcad |
VJOIN1(A,B,c,D) is A = B + cD |
| 15:33.10 |
brlcad |
where A, B,
and D are vectores, c is a constant |
| 15:33.17 |
poolio |
I saw that,
the thing is I don't quite get what it meant in terms of the
code. |
| 15:33.37 |
brlcad |
basically
joins to vectors, scaling one of the vectors |
| 15:33.41 |
brlcad |
s/to/two/ |
| 15:34.17 |
brlcad |
ah, in terms
of the code it's even easier |
| 15:34.20 |
poolio |
Ah I think I
see what it's doing. Calculating the point where the ray entered
and exited a certain partition |
| 15:34.38 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 15:35.03 |
brlcad |
a ray fired
from a given point, in a given direction, with a hit along some
distance |
| 15:35.03 |
poolio |
geez, I need
to start using my brain more |
| 15:35.15 |
brlcad |
VJOIN1
basically gives you that hit point |
| 15:35.46 |
poolio |
Any
suggestions on how to store the ray data? should I just store the
linked list of parititons? |
| 15:36.07 |
brlcad |
B:[a ray
fired from a given point], D:[in a given direction], with c:[a hit
along some distance] |
| 15:36.11 |
brlcad |
just to
clarify ;) |
| 15:36.23 |
poolio |
Yes yes,
thank you |
| 15:36.49 |
brlcad |
no
suggestions, whatever works for you |
| 15:37.07 |
poolio |
I think I
might just not store it at all |
| 15:37.11 |
brlcad |
linked list
of partitions should be lightweight enough, maybe store them as an
array of linked list |
| 15:37.42 |
brlcad |
2d array of
segments.. basically a list per grid line |
| 15:37.46 |
poolio |
Meaning I
calculate the fitness of a given model one ray at a
time |
| 15:38.14 |
poolio |
That way the
need to store the data is eliminated |
| 15:38.53 |
brlcad |
that could
work |
| 15:39.47 |
poolio |
Because for
debugging I'd have the original model(in real life this would
theoretically just be voxel data), and the proposed GA model, so I
don't really need the rt stuff as I can just check it in
mged |
| 15:42.13 |
poolio |
But on the
downside it'd mean I'd have to write a separate function to shoot
rays at the original model |
| 15:42.38 |
poolio |
Although that
could be a benefit |
| 15:42.41 |
poolio |
ah many
things to think about :) |
| 15:43.40 |
brlcad |
i'd think you
want to shoot at the original model |
| 15:43.56 |
brlcad |
that way you
can convert arbitrary models to proposed csg solutions |
| 15:44.33 |
brlcad |
so your same
algorithm will work on a volumetric model, or a polygonal model, or
even another CSG model |
| 15:45.51 |
poolio |
Well yes I
want to shoot at the original model, I was just thinking how you
could have the same function to shoot rays at the original and the
models, but I think it's better seperate, as you have said, so that
if you want to work with other data it's easy to
implement |
| 15:45.53 |
brlcad |
that's what I
meant about starting with something like a simple CSG sphere as
your input model .. you'd raytrace that to stash your list of
segments .. then kick off the GA, evaluating via ray-tracing and
comparing rays to those stashed |
| 15:46.04 |
poolio |
Yes exactly
:) |
| 15:46.06 |
brlcad |
ideally,
you'll get back a model that is almost exact |
| 15:46.57 |
poolio |
The one thing
I'm kind of concerned about is that the way I'd evaluate the
fitenss -- ray by ray -- would make a shifted but identical model
be completely unfit |
| 15:47.13 |
brlcad |
the
ray-tracer simply returns segment lists and doesn't care if it's
shooting at voxels or triangles or primitives, makes it a nice
encapsulation layer |
| 15:47.30 |
poolio |
yeah,
librt++ |
| 15:47.33 |
brlcad |
yes, well
position is just as important as shape |
| 15:47.37 |
brlcad |
so that model
is unfit |
| 15:47.57 |
brlcad |
likewise for
orientation |
| 15:48.06 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 15:48.42 |
brlcad |
which is why
your genotype really will probably need to be a CSG tree solution
(which has operators, matrices, and primitive nodes) |
| 15:49.29 |
poolio |
and what does
the term "region" mean in terms of a ray? the area that the ray has
passed through? |
| 15:50.01 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yeah,
I was looking at the tree.c stuff. I'd definitely try to have the
genome be something along those lines |
| 15:50.56 |
brlcad |
another
research paper for you to look over in your copious spare time:
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/trunkpacking2005.pdf |
| 15:51.23 |
brlcad |
it's a much
more advanced paper, but is even closer in methodology to what
you're trying to do |
| 15:51.31 |
brlcad |
and its
results were spectacular |
| 15:51.49 |
poolio |
cool |
| 15:52.07 |
brlcad |
you could
throw simmulated annealing into yours down the road maybe, but I
wouldn't worry about that part for now ;) |
| 15:52.19 |
poolio |
eeeek. |
| 15:52.23 |
brlcad |
similarly, if
the math gets too deep, just shelve it |
| 15:53.27 |
brlcad |
they
basically solved the same problem you were solving but with just
one primitive, didn't allow overlap, but did allow arbitrary
orientation -- and they fit an input shape tightly |
| 15:53.46 |
brlcad |
better than a
human could even, using a GA/SA approach |
| 15:54.33 |
brlcad |
they won best
paper just a couple years ago at the ACM SPM conference |
| 15:54.40 |
poolio |
ah
cool. |
| 15:55.02 |
poolio |
The thing I'm
worried about with CSG is the boolean operators...I think that
could cause some substantial problems/increase in problem
space |
| 15:55.18 |
brlcad |
which is why
you're starting without operators :) |
| 15:55.23 |
poolio |
jah. |
| 15:55.53 |
brlcad |
it does
substantially increase the space, but then that's what GAs are
notorious for searching for solutions over |
| 15:56.26 |
brlcad |
it's just a
matter of how many evolutions, and is your convergence a local
minima |
| 15:56.45 |
brlcad |
getting stuck
on a local minima is generally a problem (and where SA helps save
the day) |
| 15:57.07 |
poolio |
I'll have to
read up on SAs if I get that far, I know absolutely nil about them
at this point |
| 15:57.19 |
brlcad |
they're
probably way beyond the scope of this |
| 15:57.50 |
poolio |
is brl-cad
conform to c89 or can I use // comments? |
| 15:58.15 |
brlcad |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing |
| 15:58.33 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
know where to go to look for SA info, I just don't want to write
now :D |
| 15:58.42 |
brlcad |
k, good man
;) |
| 15:58.51 |
poolio |
*right |
| 15:58.57 |
poolio |
geez. all the
code is frying my brain |
| 15:59.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548768AB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:59.35 |
brlcad |
you can
probably use // comments for this |
| 15:59.50 |
poolio |
as it's not
really ever going to be integrated into the main
codebase |
| 15:59.56 |
brlcad |
but i'd still
try to minimize their use |
| 16:00.12 |
brlcad |
no, it will
be integrated .. you'll be working off the main codebase
even |
| 16:00.23 |
poolio |
oh
woah |
| 16:00.31 |
brlcad |
there's just
plans to move up to c99 at year's end when we kick over to
subversion |
| 16:00.36 |
poolio |
speaking of
which, is there anywhere in particular you want me to move stuff
to? |
| 16:00.45 |
poolio |
but for
now... cvs? |
| 16:00.50 |
brlcad |
yes,
cvs |
| 16:01.25 |
brlcad |
there's // in
the code base now .. so I'm sure the compile will fail in some c89
environments |
| 16:02.27 |
brlcad |
mipspro is
one of the last remaining vestiges, though, so i'm not too
concerned with it being c99 |
| 16:02.42 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:03.11 |
brlcad |
hello
cadguy |
| 16:03.23 |
brlcad |
how's
youtall? |
| 16:08.51 |
cadguy |
Whacked out.
|
| 16:09.14 |
cadguy |
Exterminator
arrives in a few hours. I've got to finish clearing part of the
house for them to do their work. |
| 16:09.36 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 16:09.53 |
brlcad |
can't be
great if the status begins with an exterminator |
| 16:10.37 |
brlcad |
how's the
course(s)? |
| 16:11.08 |
brlcad |
lots of folks
asking how you all have been doing |
| 16:11.58 |
cadguy |
Doing better
since we got THOR going realtime. |
| 16:12.05 |
brlcad |
Ralf Muuss
sends his regards |
| 16:12.09 |
cadguy |
Un, make that
"interactive" |
| 16:12.19 |
brlcad |
had lunch
with him, chuck, bob, carol last week |
| 16:12.35 |
cadguy |
Got a nice
note from him. Working on a reasonable response amidst the office
move today. |
| 16:13.02 |
cadguy |
Ah, good. So
you were in on the lunch. Rolf mentioned it. He really enjoyed
it. |
| 16:13.26 |
brlcad |
sorry, rolf,
can't seem to remember that spelling for some reason |
| 16:13.37 |
cadguy |
np |
| 16:14.11 |
cadguy |
Anyone check
out the video I sent? |
| 16:14.52 |
brlcad |
oh
yeah |
| 16:15.01 |
brlcad |
talked about
it for quite a while |
| 16:15.11 |
brlcad |
the bit about
being from MS was funny |
| 16:15.41 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-121-145.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:16.32 |
cadguy |
Yeah, that
was funny. I was actually thinking about the THOR vid. |
| 16:18.27 |
brlcad |
ooh |
| 16:18.31 |
brlcad |
when'd you
send it? |
| 16:19.15 |
cadguy |
Hmmm. Friday
or saturday. It's in my account on Xon. |
| 16:19.19 |
brlcad |
i've not
checked e-mail since wednesday .. a trend likely to only continue
with the plans to shut things down |
| 16:19.22 |
cadguy |
Friday I
think. |
| 16:19.25 |
brlcad |
k |
| 16:19.44 |
cadguy |
Shut things
down? You mean *nix or the "great scrub" |
| 16:25.41 |
poolio |
Is there some
sort of builtin function to compare rays? |
| 16:27.20 |
cadguy |
What do you
mean by "compare rays"? |
| 16:27.22 |
brlcad |
hm, not that
I'm aware of |
| 16:31.39 |
brlcad |
poolio:
you're going to have to write that one, and it's very much tailored
to what you're doing .. amount matching and amount not
matching |
| 16:32.17 |
brlcad |
cadguy: he
means comparing two shotlines against two different models, how
similar are the results (e.g. for comparing two
models) |
| 16:34.16 |
poolio |
that's gonna
be a slight pain. |
| 16:34.19 |
poolio |
I think I
might do that today |
| 16:36.01 |
poolio |
I'm thinking
project both rays onto another ray and do something like a reverse
boolean intersection, the union of the differences |
| 16:38.26 |
brlcad |
you'll get
back evaluated segments, you don't have to do the csg evaluation on
the shotlines |
| 16:38.29 |
brlcad |
it's done for
you |
| 16:39.13 |
brlcad |
so you're
really just comparing two segment lists |
| 16:39.19 |
poolio |
I know that,
but I'm talking about doing that on two different
shotlines |
| 16:39.42 |
poolio |
well yes, but
to compare them isn't really straightforward |
| 16:40.01 |
brlcad |
not too
horrible, a couple for loops ;) |
| 16:40.29 |
brlcad |
could even do
it with just one methinks |
| 16:41.26 |
brlcad |
merge the two
lists into just one list of entry and exit points .. count your
entries and exits and you'll know where they overlap or where
there's a miss |
| 16:42.02 |
poolio |
Ah yeah.
smart. |
| 16:44.41 |
brlcad |
poolio: more
documentation to read probably worth your time is to read the librt
manpage |
| 16:44.58 |
brlcad |
it talks
about partitions, segments, shooting rays, the application
structure, etc |
| 16:45.11 |
poolio |
sounds
helpful :) |
| 16:45.40 |
brlcad |
as well as
the first two links on http://brlcad.org/example_app.php |
| 17:30.44 |
poolio |
woah brlcad,
sudden realization |
| 17:30.50 |
poolio |
translation
is irrelevant |
| 17:31.03 |
brlcad |
relative
translation isn't |
| 17:31.11 |
brlcad |
but global,
yeah |
| 17:31.28 |
brlcad |
as is
scale |
| 17:31.28 |
poolio |
what do you
mean relative translation? as in translation of different shapes
within the model's tree? |
| 17:32.15 |
poolio |
yeah
true |
| 17:32.21 |
brlcad |
e.g. the
translation of two spheres being unioned together .. their position
relative to each other matters a lot, but where they're positioned
in 3-space won't necessarily if you set up matching
grids |
| 17:32.48 |
poolio |
yeah because
i'm using AABB they will be the same wherever they are
(globally) |
| 17:33.20 |
brlcad |
so long as
you shoot adaptive to the scale/position of the AABB, and not
global size (like fixed 1mm grid) |
| 17:33.41 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 17:34.46 |
poolio |
so in terms
of randomly creating a population, you don't care where it is, you
just want all the shapes to intersect an arbitrary bounding
box |
| 17:35.44 |
poolio |
well maybe
not arbitrary, maybe the first shape in the hierarchy or
something |
| 17:57.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-207-165.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:28.11 |
poolio |
ah nooooo.
nothing like segfaults. |
| 18:33.31 |
``Erik |
I'd much
rather have a sig11 than a logic bug :) |
| 18:33.42 |
``Erik |
gdb and
efence make seggies and bus faults easy to track |
| 18:33.49 |
poolio |
I found the
issue |
| 18:35.13 |
poolio |
Is there a
way to copy the partition passed to a_hit ? |
| 18:35.17 |
poolio |
memcpy? |
| 18:38.03 |
``Erik |
um, that'd be
a way, but there're pointers that may be deallocated, soooo if
you're expecting it to be there out of scope (like if you're
threaded), it could be very bad |
| 18:38.16 |
poolio |
Yeah, I am
:( |
| 18:38.36 |
``Erik |
I don't
recall seeing any kinda partition copy function... might be a good
patch unless brlcad can think of an alternative |
| 18:38.36 |
poolio |
Basically I'm
trying to store a partition from a previous ray that I know will
have been already calculated, and then compare that ray to future
rays |
| 18:39.08 |
poolio |
Well an
alternative for me would be to copy the values that I need into a
different data structure |
| 18:39.11 |
poolio |
which might
be smarter anyway |
| 18:39.16 |
``Erik |
(now the
region pointers should exist until you free the rtip, ... but
*shrug*) |
| 18:40.16 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:49.46 |
*** join/#brlcad irt
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:59.08 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
way to duplicate a partititon? I'm trying to test out my ray
comparison function |
| 19:08.13 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:08.34 |
brlcad |
poolio: hmm,
pretty simple to iterate over it and manually create a copy, but ..
i'm not sure you even need to do that |
| 19:09.12 |
brlcad |
i believe for
a given ray-trace application that the partition lists may be all
stored in the application structure |
| 19:13.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: is it
the "a_FINAL_Part_hdp" ? |
| 19:15.15 |
brlcad |
I
think |
| 19:15.28 |
brlcad |
it's been a
long while since I looked ath what is stashed in there |
| 19:15.31 |
poolio |
and the index
values are the # ray / total rays? |
| 19:15.42 |
brlcad |
index
values? |
| 19:15.50 |
brlcad |
it's a
bu_list |
| 19:15.57 |
poolio |
of
parititions? |
| 19:17.01 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 19:17.40 |
brlcad |
bu_lists are
"inverted" .. you add bu_list as the first element to any structure
and it gives you a linked list of that structure |
| 19:18.25 |
poolio |
yeah I was
just reading the bu.h header about them because I'll probably use
one to store the data |
| 19:18.36 |
poolio |
but if I can
figure out the a_final_part_hdp stuff than there's no need in
duplicating it |
| 19:18.53 |
brlcad |
that's why
a_Final_Part_hdp is a "head pointer", you can iterate over head
pointers like: for( BU_LIST_FOR( pp, partition, (struct bu_list
*)PartHeadp ) ) { ... } |
| 19:19.39 |
brlcad |
in your
comparison function, have it print out the contents of the
application pointer's a_Final_Part_hdp using a for loop like
that |
| 19:19.46 |
poolio |
yeah, g_qa
used BU_LISTs for storing region groups |
| 19:20.08 |
poolio |
well, I'm
just going to print out the total linear difference |
| 19:20.09 |
brlcad |
bu_lists are
used everywhere |
| 19:20.44 |
brlcad |
ratio of
right to wrong |
| 19:21.06 |
brlcad |
weighted by
absolute length perhaps |
| 19:22.34 |
poolio |
well yeah,
this is mainly to see if the comparison is working, not the
finalized part of the fitness function |
| 19:24.53 |
brlcad |
whadayaknow
.. there is a macro for copying partitions, RT_DUP_PT |
| 19:25.55 |
poolio |
hoorah. |
| 19:25.55 |
brlcad |
include/raytrace.h has the
details |
| 19:25.56 |
poolio |
thanks |
| 19:26.20 |
brlcad |
but like I
said, I'm really not sure you even need to |
| 19:27.44 |
poolio |
also --
shouldn't a_Final_Part_hdp be a linked list of linked
lists(partitions for each ray)? |
| 19:29.55 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548768AB.dip.t-dialin.net)
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| 19:29.55 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@87.249.56.197) [NETSPLIT
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| 19:29.55 |
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| 19:31.13 |
poolio |
need to
what? |
| 19:31.13 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@87.249.56.197) |
| 19:31.14 |
*** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@83.137.193.141) [NETSPLIT
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| 19:31.16 |
brlcad |
a_Final might
just be the last ray .. would have to debug/test to see |
| 19:33.34 |
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| 19:34.11 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
might just abandon the pursuit of doing all the ray comparison in
hit() and move it to plane_worker where the individual rays are
shot |
| 19:35.32 |
poolio |
and just pass
back an array of pt_inhit and pt_outhits |
| 19:35.52 |
brlcad |
should/could
work either way ;) |
| 19:35.58 |
brlcad |
whatever
works out easiest for ya |
| 19:36.33 |
poolio |
yeah I
suppose. It's just segfaulting cause of memory issues and I think
half the issue was I started coding before I understood the data
structures |
| 19:38.24 |
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| 19:38.24 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT
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| 19:38.28 |
poolio |
ALso, it
seems like there is a lot of overhead for features I don't need in
librt. Is it worth rewriting a lot of code and trying to get it
faster or should I just try to get it working first? |
| 19:46.16 |
brlcad |
try to get it
working first |
| 19:53.06 |
akreal |
hello
brlcad! |
| 19:53.20 |
brlcad |
howdy
akreal |
| 19:55.04 |
akreal |
i'm a student
and i hope to do some cad practice with BRL-CAD, maybe you remember
me ;) |
| 19:55.14 |
akreal |
are there any
jobs now? |
| 19:57.09 |
brlcad |
akreal: I
certainly remember your nick, though not so much what we were
talkinga bout |
| 19:58.00 |
akreal |
brlcad: yes,
it is so |
| 19:58.47 |
brlcad |
so what have
you been up to? |
| 20:04.19 |
akreal |
you said the
most interesting question was BREP objects, i've got math book with
some formulas about it, but i'm not sure that i'm able to put them
to BRL-CAD code |
| 20:04.43 |
akreal |
i'm a looser
in production C-coding |
| 20:06.11 |
brlcad |
you saw the
ideas page? |
| 20:07.14 |
akreal |
yes, i read
it some times |
| 20:08.00 |
brlcad |
anything
catch your interest? |
| 20:08.10 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:08.13 |
brlcad |
it's had a
few items added since too, though nothing small |
| 20:11.48 |
akreal |
could you
give me URL? i can't find it |
| 20:14.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: remove hard-coded
output filename |
| 20:15.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: remove
hard-coded output filename |
| 20:16.45 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: pass output file on
command line and remove hard-coded output file |
| 20:17.16 |
brlcad |
akreal:
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 20:18.46 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: sort the hits (need to
look into this further); remove some debugging output |
| 20:20.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: add some
stupid simple debugging capability to openNURBS |
| 20:21.42 |
brlcad |
ttk, that's
the new theming stuff I couldn't remember |
| 20:23.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_nurbscurve.h
opennurbs_nurbscurve.cpp): fix NumIntersectionsWith to properly
override virtual method from ON_Curve |
| 20:24.12 |
poolio |
brlcad: I've
utterly failed at merging two strings of numbers. :P |
| 20:24.33 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_curve.cpp
opennurbs_bezier.cpp): add some debugging statements; trying to
find out why the trimming is not working properly |
| 20:25.49 |
brlcad |
poolio:
hehe |
| 20:26.13 |
poolio |
All the logic
checks out in my brain, but the code segfaults. |
| 20:27.43 |
brlcad |
where does it
segfault? |
| 20:27.55 |
brlcad |
don't fear
the gdb ;) |
| 20:28.11 |
poolio |
yeah yeah.
i'm more of a fan of printf debugging though |
| 20:29.07 |
brlcad |
that's one of
the best habits to break ;) |
| 20:29.41 |
brlcad |
becoming
intimately familiar with your debugger will save you days of your
life, though |
| 20:38.38 |
akreal |
brlcad: i
checked the ideas list and saw it'd growed. geometry processing is
interested me most, and volume (etc.) routins looks for me more
suitable than others |
| 20:39.26 |
akreal |
its's because
i understand what's it about... but maybe you could suggest smth
better for newbe? |
| 20:39.58 |
brlcad |
it's really
hard to say without knowing what you're capable of, what your
experience is |
| 20:40.25 |
brlcad |
maybe try
working on a little patch or two, or fix a bug.. see how far you
get |
| 20:40.50 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:41.27 |
akreal |
fixing bug
looks like nice thing to start |
| 20:42.00 |
akreal |
i know it
helps a lot to get into the codebase :) |
| 21:38.23 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:38.30 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.26 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:18.38 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:25.43 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: report the directory when we can't
find configure.ac |
| 22:59.40 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:37.27 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:43.32 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 01:35.20 |
*** join/#brlcad fgleich
(n=fgleich@168-103-124-234.albq.qwest.net) |
| 02:20.24 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177680051.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:23.30 |
IriX64 |
this should
say Automagically preparing build ... |
| 02:23.50 |
IriX64 |
just came to
see if .2 is out yet? |
| 02:33.16 |
brlcad |
not quite
yet |
| 02:33.21 |
brlcad |
keep an eye
on TODO |
| 02:33.26 |
brlcad |
that has the
releast stoppers in it |
| 02:34.47 |
IriX64 |
thank
you |
| 02:35.41 |
brlcad |
i've not seen
the first issue in a couple weeks so it might be gone, but the
second (bezier) needs to be fixed |
| 02:45.29 |
IriX64 |
beyond my
meager talents, couple more cute pix on the blog irix32
blog |
| 02:46.57 |
IriX64 |
forgot to
enable the gui faceplate mode, ahh well |
| 02:56.30 |
IriX64 |
facelate gui
mode uploaded |
| 04:22.22 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 04:22.22 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 04:22.43 |
poolio |
sage - shape
aggregating genetic engine |
| 04:23.15 |
poolio |
sewage! |
| 04:23.21 |
poolio |
shape
evolution with a genetic engine |
| 04:23.29 |
poolio |
I like that
one |
| 04:23.36 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 04:24.46 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
favorite names though ;) |
| 04:26.03 |
poolio |
man. If I was
a user and had to make some call to sewage_* I'd
chuckle. |
| 04:26.30 |
poolio |
I could name
all the functions arbitrarily |
| 04:26.41 |
poolio |
sewage_water,
sewage_pipe, sewage_raw, etc... |
| 04:27.22 |
yukonbob |
sewage_backup, sewage_make,
sewage_cleanup |
| 04:27.40 |
fgleich |
um.... |
| 04:27.47 |
poolio |
it could
happen... |
| 04:30.33 |
brlcad |
hmm..
etoi |
| 04:30.43 |
brlcad |
explicit to
implicit |
| 04:31.05 |
poolio |
reminds me
too much of atoi |
| 04:31.23 |
poolio |
Doesn't have
the same name as sewage. |
| 04:31.26 |
poolio |
s/name/ring |
| 04:32.30 |
brlcad |
something a
little less filthy perhaps :) |
| 04:33.31 |
brlcad |
betoiga =>
ben's explicit to implicit genetic algorithm |
| 04:34.41 |
poolio |
kind of like
jove |
| 04:34.50 |
poolio |
geez, naming
stuff is hard. |
| 04:35.42 |
yukonbob |
swis (Swis Is
Not Sewage) |
| 04:35.44 |
brlcad |
and nirt
=> natalie's interactive ray-tracer |
| 04:35.52 |
yukonbob |
er...sins |
| 04:36.08 |
poolio |
yukonbob:
Haha. we can be like Gnu :) |
| 04:37.25 |
yukonbob |
:/ ?what
does this code do anyway |
| 04:37.44 |
poolio |
I'm not sure.
Something about genetic algorithms and shapes I think |
| 04:37.50 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 04:38.16 |
yukonbob |
yagafs (yet
another genetic algorithm for shapes) |
| 04:38.41 |
poolio |
bogart |
| 04:38.43 |
brlcad |
there aren't
that many to warrant yet another just quite yet ;) |
| 04:38.47 |
yukonbob |
(because
there are _so_ many around) |
| 04:38.50 |
yukonbob |
heh |
| 04:39.18 |
yukonbob |
fomgafs
(first of many...) |
| 04:41.05 |
brlcad |
the tool
takes a given model (ideally something like voxelized or polygonal
data) and it searches for ways to match that shape using primitives
and CSG operations .. so in effect, converts a model to an implicit
representation (from whatever it was) using a genetic algorithm
(which is just a fancy name for the way it searches for the
matching shapes) |
| 04:41.50 |
poolio |
bites: ben's
implicit to explicit shapeamalizer |
| 04:42.40 |
yukonbob |
deconstructor |
| 04:43.21 |
brlcad |
taflttr --
takes a f'ing long time to run ;) |
| 04:43.29 |
poolio |
that's for
sure |
| 04:44.04 |
fgleich |
YAY
! |
| 04:44.13 |
fgleich |
It's
done |
| 04:44.40 |
brlcad |
yay for
fgleich (just don't ask him to name the tool) ;) |
| 04:44.48 |
poolio |
purty: purty
undoes ray tracing yay |
| 04:45.18 |
poolio |
s/yay/yourself |
| 04:45.19 |
poolio |
haha |
| 04:47.14 |
poolio |
buses: ben's
unpredictable shape evolution software |
| 04:47.16 |
brlcad |
shaper =>
shape heuristic analysis pattern enhancement recognizer |
| 04:47.23 |
poolio |
geez |
| 04:47.25 |
poolio |
big
words |
| 04:48.30 |
fgleich |
It's taking
as long to install as it did to compile |
| 04:48.34 |
fgleich |
lol |
| 04:48.39 |
fgleich |
almost |
| 04:49.01 |
brlcad |
lot of tools,
libraries, and data |
| 04:49.13 |
fgleich |
yep |
| 04:49.20 |
fgleich |
make
benchmark ? |
| 04:49.31 |
brlcad |
did you build
optimized? |
| 04:50.36 |
fgleich |
no |
| 04:51.00 |
poolio |
uh oh. grab a
cup of coffee :) |
| 04:51.24 |
fgleich |
is that a
problem ? |
| 04:51.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
off for the night. I'll be back on in a couple of hours to code, or
maybe just spend all day picking a name ;) |
| 04:51.40 |
brlcad |
fgleich: no,
not a problem -- but the performance wont' be
comparable |
| 04:51.53 |
brlcad |
poolio:
coolio |
| 04:52.32 |
fgleich |
I might
rebuild it later with that enabled |
| 04:52.33 |
brlcad |
beset =>
ben's evolutionary shape extraction tool |
| 04:52.52 |
brlcad |
ohh, i like
that |
| 04:53.03 |
brlcad |
~dict
beset |
| 04:53.26 |
brlcad |
to attack on
all sides, quite appropriate |
| 07:09.10 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 07:21.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:40.43 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:06.40 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.183.187) |
| 11:05.06 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:26.09 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:30.04 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: redefine min and max
in C++ environment |
| 11:40.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (src/librt/g_brep.cpp
include/opennurbs_ext.h): VC++ 6.0 adaptions: missing return
statement, parent class, etc. |
| 12:03.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877B14.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:26.42 |
poolio_ |
mornin |
| 12:42.57 |
elite01 |
good
day |
| 12:52.05 |
poolio_ |
how are you
kin dsir? |
| 12:53.18 |
elite01 |
i'm fine,
thanks |
| 12:53.33 |
elite01 |
you
too? |
| 12:59.17 |
poolio_ |
dandy. |
| 13:16.29 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-124-131.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:23.46 |
poolio_ |
wow guys.
browsing the cvs source tree: src/conv has successive folders
"jack" and "off" |
| 13:27.57 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 13:27.59 |
``Erik |
we're cool
like that |
| 13:32.21 |
poolio_ |
wtf. my fan
has some sort of magnet in it and when I set it next to my monitor
my monitor goes crazy |
| 13:41.42 |
Laniakea |
poolio_: does
it go crazy also when the fan is not on? |
| 13:42.03 |
Laniakea |
``Erik:
that's cool |
| 13:47.29 |
poolio_ |
Laniakea:
Just when the fan is on, so I guess it's not a magnet. I moved it
further away and now all is well. |
| 13:47.52 |
Laniakea |
poolio_: fans
usually contain a squirrel cage asynchronous motor, that's the
magnetic field from the motor |
| 13:49.26 |
poolio_ |
wow. I need
to learn some electronics :) |
| 13:49.55 |
poolio_ |
The bearing
is also messed up and it doesn't spin true |
| 14:33.36 |
poolio |
uh oh. I
broke code that is not mine. |
| 16:15.09 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-153-230.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:15.43 |
thing0 |
13 hours till
plane ride |
| 16:15.45 |
thing0 |
yay! |
| 16:15.48 |
thing0 |
beb |
| 16:15.51 |
thing0 |
brb |
| 16:15.53 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-153-230.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:29.04 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:48.42 |
poolio |
I forgot I
was on a dual core processor and just wasted an hour debugging crap
trying to figure out why there was a race condition |
| 16:48.48 |
poolio |
d'oh. |
| 16:53.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: do
you have any punching bags in the office? |
| 17:25.34 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-124-131.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:25.41 |
thing0 |
hey |
| 17:34.28 |
poolio |
hello mr.
thing0 |
| 17:34.40 |
thing0 |
hello
poolio |
| 17:34.55 |
thing0 |
I fell asleep
when you and brlcad were discussing stuff yesterday |
| 17:34.56 |
thing0 |
;) |
| 17:37.18 |
poolio |
names? |
| 17:37.34 |
poolio |
I think
brlcad settled on beset. I'm personally a fan of sewage although
that will never make it into CVS :P |
| 17:38.03 |
thing0 |
ahh |
| 17:40.22 |
thing0 |
ok |
| 17:40.25 |
thing0 |
me sleep
now |
| 17:40.32 |
thing0 |
gotta be on a
plane in like 11 hours |
| 17:40.33 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 17:40.51 |
thing0 |
got a
training course in 7 hours |
| 17:40.52 |
thing0 |
argh |
| 17:41.01 |
thing0 |
cya
poolio |
| 17:43.09 |
poolio |
cya |
| 17:43.29 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-124-131.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:59.44 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.184.77) |
| 18:00.28 |
poolio |
brlcad: if
you ever come back I have a question |
| 18:31.58 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.17 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177592894.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:02.28 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 19:12.01 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix arc
generation bug: openNURBS does not interpret "wrapping"
angles |
| 19:15.18 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix plot routine to now
show edge curves better (still needs refinement, e.g. dynamic
sampling) |
| 19:17.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp:
debug and fix bezier clipping (case c) - still needs to be cleaned
up and more fully debugged |
| 19:18.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-206-147.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:19.36 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-206-147.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:20.15 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177592894.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:22.04 |
IriX64 |
brlcad, what
the christ is a bezier? :) |
| 19:23.31 |
archivist |
a curve
through control points |
| 19:23.51 |
IriX64 |
and this code
is going to do that |
| 19:25.12 |
IriX64 |
are you all
mathematitions and computer scientists here? |
| 19:27.28 |
IriX64 |
cant even
spell it sigh |
| 19:27.52 |
archivist |
I dont like
to pigeon hole myself |
| 19:28.09 |
IriX64 |
life does
that for you :) |
| 19:28.26 |
archivist |
no it
doesnt |
| 19:28.42 |
IriX64 |
waits for an
explanation |
| 19:29.05 |
archivist |
I move from
programming to electronics to mechanical depends whats
needed |
| 19:29.27 |
IriX64 |
ah i see if
you don't like the pigeon hole your in study for another
? |
| 19:30.26 |
IriX64 |
must needs
study another dicipline if you go about doing that |
| 19:31.06 |
archivist |
self study/
own library |
| 19:31.16 |
IriX64 |
similar
here |
| 19:32.51 |
poolio |
and here
:) |
| 19:33.07 |
IriX64 |
waves...hey
poolio |
| 19:33.30 |
IriX64 |
got you name
chosen |
| 19:34.03 |
poolio |
not really.
Wasted around 4 hours debugging some of my own god-awful code
though. |
| 19:34.23 |
IriX64 |
not a waste
if you got it working :) |
| 19:36.14 |
poolio |
Got it
working but now I'm stuck and need someone who knows certain
things. *achem* brlcad |
| 19:36.41 |
IriX64 |
poke him with
a pointy stick :) |
| 19:37.29 |
poolio |
wait. I
thought I fixed it. Why is it still segfaulting? |
| 19:37.43 |
IriX64 |
blame the
6502 ;) |
| 19:38.06 |
archivist |
hey the 6502
is the original risc micro |
| 19:38.13 |
poolio |
brlcad:
ahoy! |
| 19:39.07 |
brlcad |
howdy
howdy |
| 19:40.19 |
brlcad |
I didn't
settle on beset, you welcome to keep brainstorming something else
.. just not sewage :) |
| 19:40.49 |
poolio |
mannnnnnn |
| 19:40.59 |
poolio |
beset was
cool though |
| 19:41.00 |
*** join/#brlcad fgleich
(n=fgleich@168-103-124-234.albq.qwest.net) |
| 19:43.10 |
IriX64 |
archivist:
the 6502 was what usually had to be changed in the atari 400
:) |
| 19:47.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: get
my /msg? |
| 19:48.27 |
brlcad |
ah, yes --
you can |
| 19:49.02 |
brlcad |
you can reuse
the rtip's iirc, but you'll need separate application
structures |
| 19:52.06 |
poolio |
Might you
know how? The way I was thinking about doing it was just recreating
rtip |
| 19:52.20 |
poolio |
and
re-running rt_prep_parallel |
| 19:53.18 |
brlcad |
there is a
routine for duplicating rtip's too |
| 19:54.12 |
poolio |
Also, in g_qa
it has a new application structure for evert time the object is
raytraced, is that the way it works? ie you can't re-use an
application structure and change the ray locations? |
| 19:54.34 |
poolio |
So duplicate
the rtip after reading the database but before getting the object
tree? |
| 19:54.55 |
brlcad |
er, that's
not quite what I meant |
| 19:55.43 |
brlcad |
a single
application structure is used for shooting all the rays |
| 19:55.57 |
poolio |
Sorry for all
the stupid questions, I'm just trying to learn my way
around |
| 19:55.58 |
brlcad |
you keep
updating the a_ray entry |
| 19:56.43 |
brlcad |
what you'll
probably want to do is get a dbip |
| 19:56.54 |
brlcad |
with
basically is a handle on the .g |
| 19:56.57 |
poolio |
Ok, but if
you change the number of rays, can you still use the same
applicaton struct? |
| 19:57.17 |
brlcad |
then for each
model you want, extract an rtip from the dbip (using
rt_new_rti(dbip)) |
| 19:57.27 |
poolio |
ah
okay |
| 19:57.57 |
brlcad |
then do an
rt_gettree(rtip, "whatever object") to load/prep that
object |
| 19:58.05 |
brlcad |
sorry, just
load |
| 19:58.08 |
poolio |
do I need to
run rt_prep_parallel? |
| 19:58.12 |
brlcad |
you'll need
to run rt_prep to prep it |
| 19:58.18 |
poolio |
alright cool,
thanks |
| 19:58.25 |
brlcad |
yeah,
rt_prep_parallel will work too |
| 19:58.46 |
brlcad |
take a look
at g_transfer in src/gtools |
| 19:58.52 |
brlcad |
it does
something very similar |
| 19:58.55 |
brlcad |
iirc |
| 19:59.02 |
poolio |
I'm trying to
finish the csg->voxel-like format and ray comparison for today,
it's being a pain though. and i forgot i had 2 processors so
... |
| 19:59.09 |
poolio |
ok |
| 20:00.33 |
brlcad |
so you still
thinking up a name? I'd like to get you working off cvs as soon as
possible |
| 20:03.21 |
poolio |
I haven't
been thinking much about it, and my code is so awful I don't want
to commmit it yet :) |
| 20:04.39 |
brlcad |
which is all
the more reason why you need to be exposing yourself more
;) |
| 20:04.44 |
poolio |
oh
boy. |
| 20:04.51 |
brlcad |
open source
is all about being open through and through ;) |
| 20:04.57 |
poolio |
I'm fine with
beset, I forget what it stood for but the definition fits the
program |
| 20:05.26 |
poolio |
Ejxpose
yourself so people will clean you up :) |
| 20:05.53 |
brlcad |
nah, everyone
wants the tools and wants to see them improve |
| 20:06.01 |
brlcad |
development
"cruft" is natural |
| 20:06.09 |
brlcad |
it's never
"done", never "perfect" |
| 20:06.32 |
poolio |
Yeah, which
is why they'll clean you up |
| 20:06.44 |
poolio |
well...i
suppose |
| 20:07.28 |
poolio |
I think I'm
going to just rewrite this csg->voxel/ray comparison stuff again
from scratch. Right now I have just slimmed down the g_qa tool and
so the structure no longer fits the program |
| 20:07.49 |
poolio |
also: should
I try to keep it multithreaded? |
| 20:08.09 |
poolio |
well
no...parallel |
| 20:09.23 |
brlcad |
yeah, try
hard to keep it parallel |
| 20:09.48 |
brlcad |
that'll let
me test your tool on considerably faster machines |
| 20:10.03 |
poolio |
ok. that's
what messed up my entire morning, I implemented a link list not
with BU_LIST and didnt use and semaphores to lock it down and a
race condition developed and it kept randomly
segfaulting |
| 20:11.01 |
brlcad |
fun
:) |
| 20:12.41 |
poolio |
alright, so
I'm gonna do a major refactoring/rewrite starting now and hopefully
it'll all work out :) |
| 20:16.21 |
IriX64 |
be sure to
put a heatsink on the 6502 ;) |
| 20:17.22 |
poolio |
No heatsink
neccesary, it's bathing in mineral oil. |
| 20:17.39 |
IriX64 |
heh towel dry
then :) |
| 20:29.29 |
IriX64 |
fgleich: howd
you make out with your build? |
| 20:40.44 |
fgleich |
IriX64: It
built fine after I installed all the depends |
| 20:41.14 |
IriX64 |
now you can
do that job you were waiting to do :) |
| 20:41.16 |
fgleich |
trying to
figure out what it needed took a little head scratching |
| 20:41.47 |
IriX64 |
im lucky just
type autogen and do what it says ;) |
| 20:42.04 |
IriX64 |
err
+.sh |
| 20:42.26 |
fgleich |
I did that
too |
| 20:43.02 |
fgleich |
but, some X
stuff was missing and it errored out til I installed what it
needed |
| 20:44.00 |
IriX64 |
i
see |
| 20:45.56 |
fgleich |
have you
tried opening up the manual from the help menu command
? |
| 20:46.22 |
fgleich |
I guess the
manual is a seperate download ? |
| 20:46.45 |
fgleich |
brb |
| 20:49.53 |
fgleich |
back |
| 20:52.02 |
fgleich |
Are there
some environmental things to set, like BRLCADHOME ? |
| 20:57.00 |
IriX64 |
the manual is
in pdf format too at http://brlcad.org |
| 20:57.43 |
IriX64 |
so are the
tutorials (a must) |
| 20:59.23 |
IriX64 |
btw what
version are we talking? |
| 21:01.28 |
brlcad |
fgleich: no,
there aren't any environment variables to set if you installed it
correctly |
| 21:03.35 |
brlcad |
fgleich: the
help menu just tries to invoke a web browser on the html docs in
the share folder -- you can open them directly too |
| 21:04.09 |
IriX64 |
and theres
always the man pages flgeich |
| 21:04.19 |
brlcad |
they should
be in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.0/html/ |
| 21:04.29 |
brlcad |
yeah, good
point |
| 21:04.32 |
brlcad |
loads of man
pages |
| 21:06.18 |
fgleich |
ok thanks
:) |
| 21:07.20 |
IriX64 |
is it still
true that if all else fails they can ask in the channel (if they
have patience) brlcad? |
| 21:07.49 |
poolio |
brlcad: Do I
need to use the register keyword in my code? Don't most compilers
choose what they want to put in the register and ignore register
keywords nowadays? |
| 21:08.49 |
brlcad |
IriX64: of
course, always |
| 21:09.02 |
IriX64 |
there you go
fgleich |
| 21:10.27 |
brlcad |
poolio:
they've always just been hints to the compilers |
| 21:10.46 |
brlcad |
most all of
the popular modern compilers still take those hints into
account |
| 21:10.58 |
poolio |
oh
alright |
| 21:11.07 |
brlcad |
you don't
have to use them, it's really just annotating variables that are
repeatedly/frequently used |
| 21:17.38 |
fgleich |
thanks
IriX64 |
| 21:17.50 |
IriX64 |
welcome |
| 21:35.31 |
IriX64 |
elite01: are
you the elite01 I know from Efnet (me as warl0ck) ? |
| 21:35.57 |
elite01 |
IriX64, don't
think so |
| 21:36.14 |
IriX64 |
sorry same
nick so i wondered |
| 21:36.17 |
elite01 |
i'm not at
efnet |
| 21:36.30 |
IriX64 |
haven't been
there for over two years |
| 21:36.45 |
elite01 |
ah |
| 21:37.12 |
elite01 |
i don't
remember ever having been there |
| 21:37.15 |
IriX64 |
you were
building brlcad last time i saw you, get it to go? |
| 21:38.00 |
IriX64 |
or were you
using it? |
| 21:38.19 |
elite01 |
hmm i once
had some trouble building 7.10 |
| 21:38.30 |
IriX64 |
must be
it |
| 21:38.33 |
elite01 |
but i was
using 7.8 before |
| 21:39.09 |
IriX64 |
i'm still
playing with both, sent my yacht out to manufactur last week
:P |
| 21:39.40 |
elite01 |
whoa
:) |
| 21:40.03 |
IriX64 |
now i have to
writew some code to pay for it :) |
| 21:40.10 |
IriX64 |
err
write |
| 21:41.00 |
elite01 |
hehe |
| 21:41.39 |
IriX64 |
back to work,
thanks for the break and sorry about the mistaken
identity |
| 21:41.47 |
elite01 |
nah no
problem |
| 21:41.54 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 21:42.55 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-206-147.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:45.36 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host81-157-197-75.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:53.27 |
IriX64 |
urff my
systems taken a hit somewhere along the way, both bwish and mged
fail to link with tons of undefined xfunctions
references |
| 21:53.59 |
elite01 |
IriX64,
ouch |
| 21:54.03 |
IriX64 |
but 7.8.4
links, cant figure this out |
| 21:54.11 |
IriX64 |
yeah |
| 21:55.21 |
IriX64 |
prefer 7.8.4
do you |
| 21:55.39 |
elite01 |
nah i
generally prefer newer versions |
| 21:55.42 |
elite01 |
if they work
:) |
| 21:56.28 |
elite01 |
psst - what's
the price? |
| 21:57.11 |
IriX64 |
your promise
that you never mention me |
| 21:57.48 |
elite01 |
do i look
like i would? |
| 21:58.05 |
brlcad |
i think
IriX64's plan is to just keep complaining about 7.10 until it
magically works for him |
| 21:58.23 |
elite01 |
IriX64, there
was a traitor among us |
| 21:58.49 |
IriX64 |
did *I
mention 7.10 |
| 21:58.55 |
elite01 |
brlcad, well,
if it works, i hereby complaina about 7.10 |
| 21:59.09 |
IriX64 |
now magic
should happen ? |
| 21:59.13 |
brlcad |
arbitrarily
changing the version string in configure.ac doesn't make a 7.8.8
real |
| 21:59.18 |
elite01 |
in thy name
of jah! |
| 22:00.14 |
elite01 |
now, it's
what i'd call tomorrow a minute ago |
| 22:00.23 |
IriX64 |
still going
though |
| 22:00.28 |
brlcad |
elite01: I'm
more than happy to investigate and fix any build system problems --
just nobody has provided a failure report that can be looked
into |
| 22:00.31 |
IriX64 |
the compile i
mean |
| 22:00.52 |
IriX64 |
it's *not
your problem brlcad |
| 22:01.10 |
elite01 |
i think 7.10
built fine here once |
| 22:01.15 |
IriX64 |
see |
| 22:01.40 |
IriX64 |
what system
elite01? |
| 22:02.07 |
elite01 |
fedora |
| 22:02.27 |
IriX64 |
sorta the
same i guess unix is unix |
| 22:02.33 |
IriX64 |
well
sorta |
| 22:02.47 |
elite01 |
what've you
got? mac os? :D |
| 22:03.04 |
IriX64 |
cray-ymp
:) |
| 22:03.10 |
IriX64 |
doubles as a
furnace |
| 22:03.46 |
elite01 |
although i
have no idea which model ymp is - cray does sound scary
:) |
| 22:04.03 |
elite01 |
they're
building amd64 clusters now, aren't they? |
| 22:04.04 |
IriX64 |
multi
processor |
| 22:04.16 |
IriX64 |
dunno don't
keep up |
| 22:04.40 |
elite01 |
i've sure got
smp as well :) |
| 22:05.09 |
IriX64 |
heh i have a
z80 and am trying to build obn cp/m |
| 22:05.15 |
IriX64 |
on
too |
| 22:05.41 |
elite01 |
and i thought
freedos was exotic |
| 22:06.42 |
IriX64 |
don't want to
abandon 7.10 but may have no choice |
| 22:07.32 |
elite01 |
hm |
| 22:07.44 |
IriX64 |
brlcad you
say you need a report, I ask now is there a chance ill have a
proper tkWinDefault.h file any time soon? |
| 22:08.20 |
brlcad |
IriX64: if it
doesn't build, I usually care, even if the platform is the cause ..
I've put a lot of effort towards making the build flexible yet
functional for as wide a set of environments as possible, given the
package complexity |
| 22:08.23 |
elite01 |
well, i'd
rather leave if i don't want to be late tomorrow |
| 22:08.33 |
elite01 |
see you
soon |
| 22:08.41 |
IriX64 |
see you
elite01 |
| 22:09.17 |
IriX64 |
brlcad I know
its not you people im worried about,for instance mention cygwin to
the x11 people what will happen? |
| 22:11.14 |
IriX64 |
i'm forcing a
build right now, but whats the point bwish and mged won't function
properly becuase of those undefines in them |
| 22:12.03 |
IriX64 |
force build
is so the rest of the exes will be produced. |
| 22:13.25 |
brlcad |
yeah, but at
this point, I don't even have the faintest idea why it does or does
not work |
| 22:13.46 |
brlcad |
i've only
heard random ramblings of various things you do and try, no sense
of what actually went wrong _first_ |
| 22:13.59 |
brlcad |
to determine
what needs to be fixed/changed, if anything |
| 22:27.15 |
IriX64 |
ill try again
and pastebin the error |
| 22:32.56 |
IriX64 |
will take a
while have to reconfigure with different cflags and
remake |
| 22:35.18 |
brlcad |
and it needs
to be with a pristine copy |
| 22:35.33 |
brlcad |
no
modifications, no flags, nothing |
| 22:35.49 |
IriX64 |
not even bsd
i like that code line |
| 22:35.52 |
brlcad |
from cvs head
preferably so changes can be tested |
| 22:36.03 |
IriX64 |
all right ill
play |
| 22:36.49 |
brlcad |
it really
should work as just ./configure && make to at least give
you a successful compile and console-mode mged |
| 22:37.00 |
IriX64 |
i
know |
| 22:37.27 |
IriX64 |
logged
in |
| 22:58.05 |
IriX64 |
sigh..checking out, how, i never checked
in :) |
| 23:23.03 |
IriX64 |
if i dont
edit this thing winsock.h is going to conflict with socket.h, sure
you don't want any editing? |
| 23:26.28 |
IriX64 |
put a dnl in
front of winsock.h |
| 23:26.55 |
IriX64 |
touched
nothing else |
| 23:30.46 |
IriX64 |
ill paste the
./configure summary |
| 23:33.58 |
brlcad |
no
editing |
| 23:34.04 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 23:34.16 |
brlcad |
that's where
things start getting screwy -- if there's a conflict, it needs to
be fixed |
| 23:34.45 |
IriX64 |
whoa wait you
mean winsock? |
| 23:34.51 |
brlcad |
of
course |
| 23:36.25 |
IriX64 |
I... didn't
think you would be interested in that one, most systems don't have
both |
| 23:36.44 |
IriX64 |
but ill paste
that error too |
| 23:41.17 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/577579
1st problem (says to report it to you :)) |
| 23:45.10 |
brlcad |
okay, that
there is just a warning and benign, but thanks for pointing it out
.. i'm more concerned with errors -- where it actually stops
compiling |
| 23:45.15 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/577586
summary. should i start make? |
| 23:45.51 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 23:46.51 |
IriX64 |
started itll
take a bit but the winsock error is first to be hit |
| 23:56.55 |
IriX64 |
forgot about
tkwindefault.h http://www.pastebin.ca/577602 |
| 23:57.11 |
IriX64 |
shall i apply
my patch and continue? |
| 23:58.30 |
IriX64 |
patch I use
is simply to use tkUnixDefault.h, seems to keep it
happy |
| 23:58.54 |
IriX64 |
that file is
asked for in default.h in generic if you want to see it |
| 23:59.56 |
brlcad |
no, just hold
it there and i'll poke |
| 00:00.05 |
IriX64 |
all
right |
| 00:00.29 |
brlcad |
maybe keep
this dir off to the side so that we can continue this over a few
days .. but leaving it alone so we can get it to build
cleanly |
| 00:01.00 |
IriX64 |
ill do that
thanks for tthe help, ill just switch back to 7.8.4 for a few
days |
| 00:15.44 |
IriX64 |
this is the
kind of summary I prefer, i changed the version number cause i did
a little playing with the code rot comes to mind and some other
stuff like the raytrace control panel. http://www.pastebin.ca/577656 |
| 00:17.31 |
IriX64 |
angle
distance cursor is neat too |
| 00:22.00 |
IriX64 |
brlcad:
what's your cleanest line of code, I'm happy the bsd but if you
suggest cleaner i'll use it. |
| 00:22.11 |
IriX64 |
s/if/the |
| 00:22.21 |
IriX64 |
err
with |
| 00:23.21 |
IriX64 |
supposed to
isn't it? |
| 00:23.49 |
IriX64 |
i start mine
from dos :P |
| 00:23.55 |
yukonbob |
it's supposed
to use DISPLAY to know which (if any) X display to
use... |
| 00:24.15 |
yukonbob |
(that's the
typical X client action). |
| 00:24.23 |
IriX64 |
but it picks
up the default that xterm is running on, proper
behaviour |
| 00:24.48 |
yukonbob |
not if it's
reset... ie: export DISPLAY=''; mged |
| 00:25.04 |
yukonbob |
does same
from a console completely unrelated to X as well... |
| 00:25.18 |
IriX64 |
my system
might be different (ie cygwin) |
| 00:25.56 |
yukonbob |
do you have
xeyes installed? |
| 00:26.06 |
IriX64 |
think so
wait |
| 00:26.14 |
yukonbob |
if so, try:
export DISPLAY=''; xeyes |
| 00:26.49 |
yukonbob |
or better:
env DISPLAY='' xeyes |
| 00:26.59 |
yukonbob |
(won't have
to reset DISPLAY variable) |
| 00:27.16 |
IriX64 |
from an xterm
prompt or console prompt? |
| 00:27.26 |
yukonbob |
xterm |
| 00:27.37 |
IriX64 |
lemme fire x
up |
| 00:27.38 |
yukonbob |
just try
'xeyes' first |
| 00:27.57 |
yukonbob |
you should
get a pair of googley eyes following your mouse
cursor... |
| 00:28.01 |
yukonbob |
^C to get rid
of them. |
| 00:28.40 |
IriX64 |
got
them |
| 00:28.52 |
IriX64 |
gone |
| 00:29.03 |
yukonbob |
now try w/
the "env DISPLAY='' xeyes" |
| 00:29.14 |
yukonbob |
(no
double-quotes) |
| 00:30.16 |
IriX64 |
got a
> |
| 00:30.37 |
yukonbob |
env
DISPLAY='' xeyes |
| 00:30.49 |
IriX64 |
how do i get
out of it, quit:) |
| 00:30.56 |
yukonbob |
prolly
^D |
| 00:31.05 |
yukonbob |
env
DISPLAY='' xeyes |
| 00:31.12 |
yukonbob |
^---two
single quotes |
| 00:31.21 |
yukonbob |
(after
DISPLAY=) |
| 00:31.40 |
IriX64 |
cant open
display, your right |
| 00:31.51 |
yukonbob |
right...
that's typical behaviour |
| 00:32.35 |
IriX64 |
thanks |
| 00:32.58 |
IriX64 |
learned i'm
always wrong :P |
| 00:34.27 |
yukonbob |
or you
learned you can always get smarter :) |
| 00:35.49 |
IriX64 |
that too
:) |
| 00:36.17 |
IriX64 |
the seed of
smartness though is hard to plant |
| 00:39.30 |
IriX64 |
so your
saying theres a bug in mged yukonbob? |
| 00:41.13 |
IriX64 |
what happens
if you set DISPLAY to 127.0.0.1:0.0 ? |
| 00:41.52 |
yukonbob |
I'd say when
it tries to connect to servers that I don't specify, that's bad
policy |
| 00:42.20 |
IriX64 |
it assumes
you want a display window, thats its function |
| 00:42.28 |
yukonbob |
If I'm
working on a super-secret fembot from a remote computer, but the
display comes up on my work computer for my co-workers to see,
that'd be embarassing |
| 00:42.59 |
IriX64 |
uses a
default not entirely wrong behaviour |
| 00:43.06 |
yukonbob |
"assuming"
isn't good policy. |
| 00:43.20 |
yukonbob |
if the
DISPLAY="", their is no default display |
| 00:43.37 |
IriX64 |
but one was
programmed in |
| 00:44.10 |
yukonbob |
it may loop
through a pre-compiled list of likely possibilities, but I'd say
that's bad policy. |
| 00:44.42 |
IriX64 |
brlcad said
to somebody today no environment variables are neccessary if
installed correctly |
| 00:45.14 |
yukonbob |
DISPLAY can
be depended on in an X environment though --- otherwise X clients
just won't work ;) |
| 00:45.29 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 00:46.37 |
yukonbob |
brlcad
probably meant that there are no special environment variables that
need to be set 'by hand'. |
| 00:46.45 |
IriX64 |
love my
system, did all that while compiling brlcad and ripping cassette
tape. |
| 00:46.58 |
IriX64 |
your probably
right |
| 00:48.44 |
fgleich |
you have to
add the bin to your PATH, right ? |
| 00:48.59 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 00:49.04 |
yukonbob |
or put the
bin in a path that's already set ;) |
| 00:49.07 |
IriX64 |
brlcad/bin |
| 00:49.12 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 00:52.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 01:01.11 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad
added some stuff, feel free to spread that url
around |
| 01:38.16 |
*** join/#brlcad gamedev
(n=dave@unaffiliated/gamedev) |
| 01:39.41 |
*** part/#brlcad gamedev
(n=dave@unaffiliated/gamedev) |
| 01:41.27 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/577788
a benchmark with optimized on debug off |
| 01:52.56 |
IriX64 |
well
bu_bomb() works... terra.g is using a null pointer somewhere caught
by bu_ckmag |
| 01:53.06 |
IriX64 |
in
7.8 |
| 02:06.18 |
yukonbob |
can anybody
tell me why when I make (for example) a vertical post (in post rcc
0 0 0 0 0 100 1) and a wire joining top of post to ground (in wire
rcc 0 0 100 100 0 0 0.1), the "wire" doesn't seem to reflect the
angle it should be at, and maybe not even the length? (I'm know
it's going to be operator error, but I don't know what that error
is yet ;) |
| 02:11.55 |
IriX64 |
are you
saying i'm dumb as a post :P |
| 02:21.49 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
brlcad albumn, my first "real one" :) |
| 02:33.06 |
*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass_
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177592894.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:35.02 |
IriX64 |
bsod
lovely |
| 02:36.06 |
IriX64 |
the blog has
one with the work environment enabled, adc grid axes indicators
faceplate etc |
| 03:29.36 |
poolio |
moore late
night coding 8) |
| 05:09.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/doc/cvs.txt: CVS moved from cvs.sf.net to
brlcad.cvs.sf.net |
| 05:09.22 |
poolio |
et voila
:) |
| 05:10.08 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 05:10.14 |
brlcad |
~poolio++ |
| 05:10.43 |
poolio |
so should I
just add a new folder and the one file I'm working off of to
src/gtools too? |
| 05:11.24 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 05:18.06 |
poolio |
is there a
reason it's u,v,i axis and not x,y,z? |
| 05:20.22 |
brlcad |
what are you
referring to? |
| 05:20.31 |
poolio |
q_ga
mainly |
| 05:21.41 |
brlcad |
probably no
"strong reason" other than thinking of the grid being fired as a
u,v parameter space instead of just coordiantes in
3-space |
| 05:21.43 |
poolio |
and I'm
guessing I need to include the massive copyright headers I
hate? |
| 05:22.04 |
brlcad |
yep, they're
boilerplate |
| 05:22.12 |
brlcad |
you can
auto-add them, however, using a script |
| 05:22.21 |
brlcad |
sh/template.sh lgpl yourfile.c |
| 05:22.48 |
brlcad |
can be used
to stub empty files or add header/footers to existing
files |
| 05:25.32 |
poolio |
and is there
a name I should use for the shape I'm trying to match? I've been
just calling it the model but that's not at all what it
is |
| 05:28.36 |
brlcad |
it is "a
model" |
| 05:29.01 |
brlcad |
just not "the
model" that you're trying to generate |
| 05:29.11 |
poolio |
so we're
trying to match a csg population to the model? |
| 05:29.48 |
brlcad |
maybe call it
the source or the source pattern or the reference shape,
etc |
| 05:30.11 |
poolio |
I'll just
reference it as the source model for now |
| 05:30.15 |
poolio |
wait
no |
| 05:30.25 |
poolio |
just plain
source...haha |
| 05:43.43 |
poolio |
alright, i'm
gonna commit me code, cya in the mornin. |
| 05:44.16 |
brlcad |
won't be
available much of tomorrow day-time, but back in the
afternoon/evening |
| 05:44.40 |
poolio |
alright, I
think I'm pretty much know what I'll be doing, so hopefully I'll
have progress to show you then. ta ta. |
| 05:51.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-206-147.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:55.06 |
poolio |
damn vim! I
comcommited a .swp file.... |
| 05:55.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: initial base for
_beset_: ben's evolutionary shape extraction tool |
| 06:07.03 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:20.41 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:43.21 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 10:14.41 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
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| 10:14.52 |
*** part/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 10:33.19 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 11:18.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54874C30.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:36.45 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if we're building with cygwin, tk
wants access to headers in the tk/win directory, so add it to the
cppflags header search paths |
| 13:36.54 |
brlcad |
IriX64: cvs
update configure.ac && ./autogen.sh && ./configure
&& make |
| 13:53.42 |
poolio |
mornin brlcad
:) |
| 13:54.22 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 13:58.52 |
brlcad |
mornin'
poolio |
| 13:59.39 |
poolio |
I committed
beset last night :) |
| 14:00.21 |
poolio |
is the coding
style ok? I tried to mirror the way g_qa was formatted |
| 14:00.30 |
poolio |
and from the
HACKING document |
| 14:47.03 |
poolio |
brlcad: does
BU_LIST manage its own cleanup? |
| 14:54.55 |
brlcad |
erm, how
would they do that? |
| 14:55.09 |
brlcad |
they only do
what the code you write makes them do |
| 14:55.09 |
poolio |
I haven't a
clue, but in g_qa the linked lists never get free'd |
| 14:55.41 |
brlcad |
ah, yeah ..
just bad form from the author (shame on lee) |
| 14:55.55 |
brlcad |
he's relying
on exit to free resources since it's not reused |
| 14:55.57 |
poolio |
ok, was
wondering if C magically had garbage collection :) |
| 14:56.17 |
brlcad |
it magically
collects when the program terminates ;) |
| 14:56.31 |
poolio |
well, as long
as it thinks the resource won't be reused |
| 14:56.58 |
brlcad |
right, and
for that tool it's pretty much guaranteed .. as are a lot of the
command-line tools that perform some specific action |
| 14:57.31 |
brlcad |
your tool,
however, is a little different in that it has a run loop that needs
to iterate through samples over and over, potentially for a very
long time |
| 14:57.48 |
brlcad |
g_qa should
free it's stuff, don't let that be an example/excuse ;) |
| 14:57.51 |
brlcad |
shame on lee
:) |
| 14:57.58 |
poolio |
alrighty |
| 14:58.22 |
poolio |
If I can get
a version of beset to work on say... a single primitive I'd
probably want to do a lot of optimizing |
| 14:59.01 |
brlcad |
that will
probably be the time to make sure multithreading works, maybe run a
sanity profile |
| 14:59.21 |
poolio |
what's up
with the second argument to bu_malloc and bu_free ? |
| 14:59.24 |
brlcad |
valgrind for
memory |
| 14:59.36 |
poolio |
heh, I love
valgrind |
| 14:59.48 |
poolio |
also: I can
test multithreading on my system, i have 2 cores |
| 14:59.52 |
brlcad |
the second
argument is a label |
| 15:00.02 |
poolio |
but is there
a point to that label, and does it have to be unique? |
| 15:00.33 |
brlcad |
libbu has
it's own memory protections and debugging facilities.. you add
those labels and with certain flags enabled, you can see a
allocation trace where you can find your allocations via those
labels |
| 15:00.48 |
poolio |
alright so
it's mainly for debugging? |
| 15:00.54 |
brlcad |
entirely for
debugging |
| 15:01.15 |
brlcad |
but it should
just be something sensible, and the free label should pair up with
the alloc label |
| 15:01.28 |
poolio |
alright |
| 15:02.32 |
brlcad |
and in case
you hadn't read/noticed elsewhere in the docs -- libbu guarantees
allocations so you never have to check return pointers from
bu_malloc() and friends |
| 15:02.55 |
poolio |
yeah I read
that, it's very nice :) |
| 15:03.16 |
poolio |
does it exit
the program if it can't allocate space? |
| 15:03.26 |
brlcad |
yes, it will
abort |
| 15:04.45 |
brlcad |
running out
of memory is considered a fatal error, and having spagetti code to
handle the extremely rare cases where you might be able to recover
gracefully doing something OTHER than exit() just isn't worth the
complexity it adds |
| 15:06.55 |
brlcad |
also, there
is a way to catch out-of-memory conditions if you really do want to
"keep going" .. just by default it will abort |
| 15:07.20 |
poolio |
cool, good
development choice :) |
| 15:09.13 |
poolio |
brlcad: Is
there a way to go from Makefile.am in my directory --> Makefile
without running a whole ./configure and adding my directory to the
build list? |
| 15:50.59 |
brlcad |
nope, gotta
add it though once you add it, it should rebuild the Makefile after
Makefile.am edits |
| 15:52.44 |
brlcad |
have to add
it eventually regardless so might as well be sooner rather than
later |
| 15:52.56 |
poolio |
Yeah I did to
my local build |
| 15:54.06 |
poolio |
wait,w hat do
I have to modify besides configure.ac and the creation of the
Makefile.am in the directory? |
| 16:02.25 |
poolio |
ah d'oh,
forgot to run autogen.sh |
| 16:09.21 |
poolio |
Uh oh>
unless I broke something, someone broke something in
CVS... |
| 16:09.31 |
poolio |
opennurbs_bezier.cpp:1149: error: 'assert'
was not declared in this scope |
| 16:47.42 |
IriX64 |
poolio....
just needs a #include <assert.h> and it'll be
fine. |
| 16:58.41 |
poolio |
Yeah I added
it in a while ago :) |
| 17:07.07 |
IriX64 |
cool |
| 17:11.08 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/579383
<---- poolio i don't understand this part of configure.ac can
you explain? |
| 17:11.34 |
IriX64 |
my x keeps
coming up not detected and i think this is why |
| 17:11.51 |
IriX64 |
line 3336 of
configure.ac |
| 17:24.56 |
poolio |
So it's
running the program specified from 3335 through 3341 |
| 17:25.03 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 17:25.22 |
poolio |
and returning
either 1 or 0 based off of whether xmkm is null |
| 17:25.41 |
IriX64 |
man 7.8.4
detects my x |
| 17:25.43 |
poolio |
so basically
the reason X isn't working is because XNewModifiermap(1) returns
NULL instead of an non-NULL value like it should if it was
succesful |
| 17:26.05 |
poolio |
well what's
changed since then? |
| 17:26.30 |
IriX64 |
noithing on
my end they changed the check |
| 17:26.39 |
IriX64 |
err
nothing |
| 17:26.39 |
poolio |
I know,
what's changed in the check |
| 17:26.53 |
poolio |
It could be
your version of X doesn't support the test they are trying to
perform |
| 17:27.00 |
IriX64 |
ill have to
compare them again |
| 17:27.08 |
IriX64 |
x11r6
man |
| 17:27.22 |
poolio |
=P good
luck |
| 17:27.32 |
IriX64 |
thanks
:) |
| 17:28.34 |
IriX64 |
i'll code
around it what the heck i know ive got x and the libs detection
works so *shrug |
| 17:31.23 |
IriX64 |
thanks
poolio |
| 17:35.58 |
poolio |
it appears
like "< # XXX ugly hack that needs to die |
| 17:36.02 |
poolio |
died
:) |
| 17:40.06 |
IriX64 |
ahh you
compared? i just changed it a bit |
| 17:40.13 |
poolio |
IriX64: So in
the current configure.ac another check was added that tests to see
if some Xmodifier stuff is working. I'm guessing that your
environment fails that test. |
| 17:40.25 |
poolio |
run it on
your own and see what results you get |
| 17:40.29 |
poolio |
#include
<X11/Xlib.h> |
| 17:40.32 |
IriX64 |
probably
right |
| 17:40.50 |
IriX64 |
i'm that out
of date ? :) |
| 17:41.04 |
poolio |
I
guess |
| 17:41.17 |
poolio |
I was gonna
type out a one line version of the program but i figure you're
fully capable of copy/paste |
| 17:41.21 |
IriX64 |
wonder what
will break :) |
| 17:41.24 |
IriX64 |
am |
| 17:41.41 |
IriX64 |
not that
interested |
| 17:42.10 |
IriX64 |
just haven't
seen return==null |
| 17:42.18 |
IriX64 |
i dont use
that |
| 17:42.54 |
poolio |
well it's
return value==null |
| 17:43.11 |
IriX64 |
so why bother
why not just return 0? |
| 17:43.35 |
poolio |
well it
shortens code. You can do if(value==NULL) return 1; else return
0; |
| 17:43.41 |
poolio |
it's a lot
longer than just return value==NULL; |
| 17:43.55 |
IriX64 |
sigh |
| 17:45.02 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-083-058.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:45.05 |
poolio |
t looks like
it should be in x11r6 though |
| 17:45.06 |
IriX64 |
why not just
return value 0 ? 1 |
| 17:45.23 |
IriX64 |
yeah |
| 17:45.45 |
poolio |
(condition)?
0 : 1 ? |
| 17:45.48 |
poolio |
i don't think
it works there |
| 17:45.56 |
IriX64 |
might |
| 17:46.26 |
poolio |
yeah it does,
but it's still longer |
| 17:46.34 |
IriX64 |
im happy for
now it configures |
| 17:46.43 |
poolio |
Yeah, but
what'd you break? |
| 17:46.51 |
IriX64 |
my ankle
:P |
| 17:47.05 |
poolio |
sorry. feel
better. i'm gonna grab some lunch :) |
| 17:47.14 |
IriX64 |
heh thanks
man |
| 17:53.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-228-127.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:54.10 |
IriX64 |
Laniakea:
cheers |
| 17:54.17 |
Laniakea |
IriX64:
cheers |
| 17:54.23 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 17:55.19 |
IriX64 |
mmm that was
fast, you're not like me, I type with two fingers :) |
| 17:55.38 |
poolio |
do you
really? |
| 17:55.49 |
IriX64 |
yes never
learned to type |
| 17:55.53 |
Laniakea |
IriX64: do
you have ZX Spectrum? |
| 17:56.17 |
IriX64 |
what on earth
is ZXSpectrum? |
| 17:56.23 |
Laniakea |
nothing |
| 17:56.37 |
IriX64 |
I know, if
you have to ask you don't know :) |
| 17:57.20 |
Laniakea |
my secret
retro dream is to get a casette recorder |
| 17:57.25 |
IriX64 |
poolio too
old to unlearn how i do it now and replace it with a new
way |
| 17:58.09 |
IriX64 |
mine is to
transfer all my music from 12" reels to cd someday |
| 17:58.21 |
IriX64 |
err
10.5" |
| 17:58.36 |
poolio |
geez |
| 17:58.39 |
poolio |
never too
old! |
| 17:58.50 |
IriX64 |
heh tel it to
my soul |
| 17:58.54 |
IriX64 |
tell
too |
| 17:59.08 |
IriX64 |
i hate
unlearning, its hard |
| 17:59.59 |
IriX64 |
i'm waiting
for a computer I can just tell what to do :) |
| 18:00.46 |
IriX64 |
cassette
recorder, they're available still |
| 18:01.35 |
IriX64 |
nikki break
(no not Nikki Lawerence) I'll be back |
| 18:18.05 |
IriX64 |
in bu_bomb()
I added an fcloseall() to try to protect the database for what it's
worth |
| 18:18.28 |
IriX64 |
just before
the abort() |
| 18:40.17 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
the BrlCad albumn |
| 18:46.36 |
IriX64 |
gotta figure
a way of putting a bash shell in there so you can run your script
tools |
| 18:46.58 |
IriX64 |
sh should fit
the bill |
| 18:54.23 |
IriX64 |
same url
latest build raytracing (1st Pix) and btw is this sort of thing
allowed in the channel? |
| 18:56.13 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host81-157-197-75.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:04.32 |
IriX64 |
mental note,
don't start a photon map during a compile :) |
| 19:17.21 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/579607
haha |
| 19:21.44 |
IriX64 |
mmm exec sh
now works |
| 19:21.48 |
IriX64 |
sweet |
| 19:24.12 |
IriX64 |
ok i'm ready
to build a mug :) |
| 19:29.13 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.178.146) |
| 19:33.24 |
IriX64 |
same url
brlcad albumn 1st pix |
| 19:45.38 |
poolio |
IriX64: your
webspace is b0rked. |
| 19:47.34 |
IriX64 |
huh? |
| 19:47.39 |
IriX64 |
loads
here |
| 19:47.53 |
IriX64 |
whats the
problem? |
| 19:47.56 |
poolio |
XML Parsing
Error: syntax error |
| 19:47.56 |
poolio |
Location:
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/ |
| 19:47.56 |
poolio |
Line Number
3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML
4.0//EN"> |
| 19:48.06 |
IriX64 |
what
browser |
| 19:48.17 |
poolio |
iceweassel
(firefox), but it worked fine the other day |
| 19:49.54 |
IriX64 |
windows
firefox loads it fine |
| 19:50.34 |
IriX64 |
sorry man
dunno what to say |
| 19:50.54 |
poolio |
You don't
need to say anything. I have to get back to work :) |
| 19:51.08 |
IriX64 |
is there a
.org that allows png upload? |
| 19:51.20 |
IriX64 |
me too
:) |
| 19:52.25 |
IriX64 |
try it
now |
| 19:54.41 |
IriX64 |
b0rked eh?
now it's borst eat hearty :) |
| 19:56.01 |
IriX64 |
reminds me
must point ppl to http://brlcad.org
in the caption field |
| 19:57.24 |
IriX64 |
there |
| 20:43.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54874C30.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:48.52 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: move the debugging
defines into one place; implement correct ON_Ray copy ctor/asst
operator; fix node intersection |
| 20:54.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: |
| 20:54.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
added bounding-box plotting for debugging purposes; fixed memory
leak |
| 20:54.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: in
shot routine; debugging acne/odd hit count problems (currently
not |
| 20:54.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
finished!!); renamed existing debug statements (should just remove
them!) |
| 20:56.37 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fixed bug in
bounding box generation: wasn't capturing true dimensions, now
using openNURBS BB routine for initial calc; some more debugging
stmts |
| 20:59.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp:
fixed (? maybe) the bezier clipping algorithm infinite recursion
when the clip is too large |
| 21:03.42 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:08.24 |
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| 21:08.29 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 21:34.51 |
yukonbob |
can anybody
tell me why when I make (for example) a vertical post (in post rcc
0 0 0 0 0 100 1) and a wire joining top of post to ground (in wire
rcc 0 0 100 100 0 0 0.1), the "wire" doesn't seem to reflect the
angle it should be at, and maybe not even the length? (I'm know
it's going to be operator error, but I don't know what that error
is yet ;) |
| 21:39.35 |
IriX64 |
mine doesn't
have either of those. |
| 21:40.13 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/579886
heh |
| 21:41.32 |
IriX64 |
i set the
color to peach and it raytraced it sweet |
| 21:42.52 |
poolio |
IriX64: Have
you ever tried a fully functional brl-cad install in a supported
environment? |
| 21:43.42 |
IriX64 |
you calling
mine something other than fully functional? |
| 21:44.03 |
IriX64 |
ill do
anything you can do except adrt |
| 21:45.39 |
poolio |
I just wonder
why you are so happy about the software working as expected
=) |
| 21:46.03 |
IriX64 |
for me the
worst thing that ever happened to brlcad was this so called upgrade
of tcl/tk |
| 21:46.52 |
IriX64 |
i'm happy
cause its doing it in windereze outside the cygwin
environment |
| 21:47.20 |
IriX64 |
cause for
rejoicing here :) |
| 21:48.01 |
IriX64 |
i can
distribute this if so inclined |
| 21:48.23 |
poolio |
Ah yeah,
GPLd |
| 21:48.29 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 21:48.53 |
IriX64 |
wouldnt
charge for it anyway, most fun ive ever had :) |
| 21:49.05 |
poolio |
wow. dull
life ;) |
| 21:49.15 |
IriX64 |
small things
amuse me |
| 21:49.15 |
poolio |
well back to
code... |
| 21:49.19 |
IriX64 |
me
too |
| 21:52.02 |
IriX64 |
poolio many
women are interested in brlcad, I'm simply trying to impress
:P |
| 21:52.23 |
poolio |
IriX64: you
wish ;) |
| 21:52.42 |
IriX64 |
don't we
all |
| 21:52.57 |
IriX64 |
my version of
a porche |
| 21:54.36 |
poolio |
porsche? |
| 22:04.26 |
yukonbob |
no porch...
chicks dig porches. |
| 22:08.16 |
IriX64 |
ok
lamborgini |
| 22:09.00 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
the brlcad albumn, i present my cup for inspection :) |
| 22:09.09 |
poolio |
lamborghini? |
| 22:09.14 |
IriX64 |
sigh if you
can access that page that is |
| 22:09.19 |
poolio |
IriX64: I
still get that damn error |
| 22:09.22 |
IriX64 |
yes i cant
spell |
| 22:09.57 |
yukonbob |
poolio: is
that the xml error? |
| 22:10.05 |
poolio |
yukonbob:
yeah |
| 22:10.17 |
yukonbob |
heh |
| 22:14.37 |
poolio |
yukonbob: You
work on multithreaded code for brl-cad? |
| 22:18.37 |
yukonbob |
nope -- I'm
new to BRLCAD -- so far I've exposed a malloc issue w/ displacement
maps, and have done work (not published) on converting USGS
DEMs->dsp data. |
| 22:19.40 |
yukonbob |
(and
complained about the default mged DISPLAY handling, which I think
is erroneous... need to point that out to <brlcad>
;) |
| 22:21.51 |
IriX64 |
maybe.... i
should finish cup :) |
| 22:22.40 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob, if
X is up mine connects, if its not it waits. |
| 22:23.01 |
IriX64 |
if you start
with mged -c it asks |
| 22:24.00 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: right
--- we went through this yesterday -- I still think default
behaviour is incorrect. |
| 22:24.30 |
IriX64 |
your saying
it should honor the display variable |
| 22:24.40 |
yukonbob |
like every
other X client, yes. |
| 22:25.16 |
IriX64 |
just a sec
what does yours do? |
| 22:26.01 |
yukonbob |
it doesn't
honour the DISPLAY variable... it searches for X servers on it's
own, and connects. |
| 22:26.19 |
IriX64 |
first
available i take it |
| 22:26.37 |
yukonbob |
(it'll try
using the DISPLAY variable, but if that doesn't work, it tries
searching, that is) |
| 22:27.23 |
IriX64 |
but thats
proper in a network and this thing is networked |
| 22:27.26 |
poolio |
I can't get
mged running on my second display, but I haven't tried
anything |
| 22:28.12 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: I
don't think searching for non-explicitly-declared X displays is
proper, and in fact it's dangerous |
| 22:28.59 |
poolio |
My pinky
hurts. all the ctrl+keys and shift usage ... has hurt my pinky.
:'(. |
| 22:29.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: Do I
have some sort of injury coverage or worker's benefits?
hahaha |
| 22:29.10 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 22:38.22 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: you
online currently? |
| 22:57.10 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.177.148) |
| 23:03.32 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:36.06 |
IriX64 |
these people
are usually very busy, patience is required |
| 23:36.20 |
IriX64 |
me i just
play :) |
| 23:37.07 |
poolio |
well, it's
there job |
| 23:37.11 |
poolio |
*their |
| 23:39.59 |
IriX64 |
thats what im
trying to point out |
| 23:40.56 |
IriX64 |
im still
trying to work up the nerve to ask them for stryker.g |
| 23:41.18 |
poolio |
haha |
| 23:42.00 |
IriX64 |
how the heck
did i put configure.ac in an infinite loop |
| 23:43.11 |
IriX64 |
err
configure |
| 23:46.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:46.20 |
IriX64 |
i guess doing
a make bench with system activity is kind of pointless, but lets
see what we get |
| 00:10.17 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/580158
there it is |
| 00:15.40 |
poolio |
Is that with
optimized and on what system? |
| 00:16.38 |
IriX64 |
optimized yes
and compiler optimizations on cygwin |
| 00:17.13 |
IriX64 |
but as i say
system was loaded, a compile going etc |
| 00:21.20 |
IriX64 |
63 processes
running, just checked |
| 00:41.55 |
IriX64 |
I see, I
wouldn't lie to you about this, my system is capable. |
| 01:08.43 |
poolio |
Hooray, my
first project segment works! |
| 01:13.42 |
IriX64 |
err well you
know i can't spell |
| 01:13.58 |
poolio |
:) |
| 01:16.03 |
IriX64 |
poolio? what
is voxel? |
| 01:17.52 |
poolio |
a pixel is a
point in 2d space, a voxel is a point in 3d space |
| 01:37.20 |
IriX64 |
thankyou so
you somehow represent a voxel using pixels correct? |
| 01:37.53 |
poolio |
well that's
what ray tracing is about |
| 01:38.04 |
poolio |
in terms of
internal representation a voxel is just a vector of 3
values |
| 01:38.15 |
poolio |
but I don't
store voxels, I store rays |
| 01:38.56 |
IriX64 |
i picture
rays as a point moving through whatever dimensional
space |
| 01:39.18 |
IriX64 |
or hitting
whatever object in that space |
| 01:40.28 |
poolio |
yeah that's
normally the way it is, but in the context I'm using them a ray is
"shot" through the model, and I essentially get a list of
partitions of where that ray intersects the model |
| 01:40.46 |
poolio |
Although I
don't have to calculate all that, that's librt :) |
| 01:42.33 |
IriX64 |
I picture
mine as 3d raterization :) |
| 01:42.41 |
IriX64 |
rasterization
too |
| 01:43.17 |
IriX64 |
ahh i see
geometry is your method, thank you |
| 01:43.22 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:47.18 |
IriX64 |
btw i would
add an fcloseall() before the abort in bu_bomb(str) function, if
you really want to try to preserve the database |
| 01:50.20 |
poolio |
Which code
are you looking at? |
| 01:50.22 |
IriX64 |
and if
anybodys listening, terra.g a null pointer happens somehow in g_dsp
when you do an extract all |
| 01:51.03 |
IriX64 |
the bu_bomb
code in is it bomb.c in util lib |
| 01:51.15 |
poolio |
oh alright, I
thought you were referencing beset :P |
| 01:51.26 |
IriX64 |
no man sewage
:) |
| 01:51.39 |
poolio |
sorry, vetoed
by brlcad. complain to him ;) |
| 01:51.54 |
IriX64 |
sigh pulled
rank again ;) |
| 02:18.20 |
poolio |
dinner time.
I worked 12 hours today...why!?!? |
| 02:18.34 |
IriX64 |
so youd
appreciate a break :) |
| 02:19.36 |
poolio |
30:40 in 3
days. eek. |
| 02:20.02 |
IriX64 |
5 seconds in
a month (I'm a sloth) :) |
| 02:21.30 |
IriX64 |
I'm also a
glutton for punishment, i'm trying to compile 7.8 and 7.10 at the
same time:) |
| 03:08.21 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: you
specified 100 0 0 for rcc wire's height vector, which means --
point it in the X direction 100 units |
| 03:11.13 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
seriously, cut it out with the comments on the build if you're not
going to work with me to resolve the issues (referring to comment
you made earlier regarding 'so called upgrade' as that has nothing
to do with your build problems) |
| 03:11.47 |
IriX64 |
farther down
it does the undefs are in tk |
| 03:11.49 |
brlcad |
i asked you
to leave the build alone too, so that we can proceed one issue at a
time before you go all edit-happy on configure.ac too |
| 03:12.05 |
IriX64 |
that tree is
alone |
| 03:14.42 |
IriX64 |
the undefs
prevent bwish and also mged from getting built |
| 03:15.38 |
brlcad |
the
information is way too out of context, i've no idea what you're
referring to at this point |
| 03:15.51 |
IriX64 |
lets let it
lie ok? |
| 03:16.10 |
brlcad |
and it's
irrelevant -- there were/are other build issues in front of it that
need to be addressed |
| 03:16.45 |
brlcad |
if the
earlier build errors are not fixed correctly, *everything*
afterwards is suspect and unreliable |
| 03:17.00 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 03:17.36 |
brlcad |
even if it
happens to "get past" the error or masks it or whatever .. if it's
not properly fixed then the game is over |
| 03:18.14 |
IriX64 |
agreed do you
still want to pursue it? |
| 03:18.21 |
brlcad |
so i
committed a fix for that windows tk header issue -- where does the
build stop next? |
| 03:19.13 |
brlcad |
yes, i want
to work on getting your default system to compile completely
first |
| 03:19.21 |
IriX64 |
perhaps we
should abandon my effort tkwindefault.h is no where to be found and
i cant get past it without it |
| 03:20.07 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 03:20.17 |
brlcad |
you said you
have a pristine checkout, yes? |
| 03:20.35 |
IriX64 |
as of last
night as stated |
| 03:20.42 |
brlcad |
did you run
the steps I said earlier today? |
| 03:20.54 |
brlcad |
i.e. update
your sources and recompile |
| 03:21.02 |
IriX64 |
i stopped
after last night you said to wait |
| 03:21.17 |
brlcad |
and then this
morning, I gave you the next step |
| 03:21.28 |
IriX64 |
missed that
just a sec |
| 03:21.58 |
brlcad |
09:36
<@brlcad> IriX64: cvs update configure.ac &&
./autogen.sh && ./configure && make |
| 03:22.27 |
IriX64 |
sorry missed
that ill try now |
| 03:25.05 |
IriX64 |
logging
in |
| 03:29.39 |
brlcad |
don't really
need a play-by-play -- just what's the next error ;) |
| 03:29.51 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 03:29.57 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 03:30.40 |
IriX64 |
btw i'm
installing a forced build right now just to see |
| 03:32.52 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: if
you make your wire's height vector actually point back downwards
(remember hs trigonometry), you'll get the desired angle; something
like 100 0 -100 for example for the height vector |
| 03:44.24 |
IriX64 |
making ill be
right back |
| 03:55.25 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:06.02 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/580581
your next error:) |
| 04:13.38 |
brlcad |
that's good,
thanks |
| 04:14.01 |
poolio |
hey
brlcad |
| 04:14.10 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
have working code if you'd like to see! :D |
| 04:14.51 |
brlcad |
if you were
committing frequently, I would already be seeing ;) |
| 04:15.01 |
brlcad |
but yes, i'd
love to see :) |
| 04:15.48 |
brlcad |
don't be
afraid to commit, and to commit _frequently_ .. fluidly, as you get
something working, commit, new feature, commit, etc |
| 04:15.52 |
poolio |
brlcad: ok
ok, i was cleaning it up a bit before commit |
| 04:16.07 |
brlcad |
so get it
working, commit, clean up, commit, etc ;) |
| 04:16.56 |
brlcad |
lots of
commits is a good thing, and *much* easier to review both in the
moment and 10 years down the road |
| 04:17.24 |
poolio |
ok
ok |
| 04:20.58 |
brlcad |
also, feel
free to commit to other parts of the code if you run into things
(like the missing assert.h you found earlier) |
| 04:21.20 |
brlcad |
or if you
just want to improve/clean up, whatever floats your boat
;) |
| 04:22.08 |
brlcad |
they get
caught as the other platforms are tested -- just happened to work
for that dev (jason) that he didn't need that header on his
configuration for some reason |
| 04:33.36 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:42.58 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: added working ray
trace comparison based on linear difference of the
partition |
| 04:44.38 |
poolio |
brlcad:
^^voila. sorry it took so long I was trying to fix a race condition
that developed for i dont know what reason |
| 04:48.17 |
brlcad |
woot
:) |
| 05:02.16 |
poolio |
brlcad: I had
a question regarding allocating cpu resources: do I need to call
rt_init_resource and bn_rand_init for everytime a raytrace a new
object? |
| 05:04.07 |
brlcad |
iirc, no you
don't -- should be able to call them just once per binary
invocation |
| 05:06.14 |
poolio |
alright, it
takes a pointer to rt_i and I change that with every new object, so
I was just wondering |
| 05:07.56 |
brlcad |
hm, then
don't quote me on that |
| 05:08.06 |
brlcad |
lemme
look |
| 05:08.31 |
poolio |
thanks |
| 05:18.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: so if
I run rt_clean on an already set-up rt_i and resources I do not
need to re-init the resource? |
| 05:19.37 |
poolio |
if you look
in the current code, I extract the rt_i, re-alloate resources, do
stuff with the object, then run rt_clean ... and repeat |
| 05:19.37 |
brlcad |
no |
| 05:19.48 |
brlcad |
that sounds
right |
| 05:20.02 |
poolio |
wait, so do
or don't re-allocate resources, don't> |
| 05:20.03 |
poolio |
? |
| 05:22.00 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean by that? |
| 05:22.13 |
brlcad |
struct
resource? |
| 05:23.27 |
poolio |
Easiest to
see in the code, but I extract an rt_i from the database, run
rt_init_resource and bn_rand_init for each CPU, run
rt_prep_parallel, raytrace the object, and then run
rt_clean(rt_i) |
| 05:24.04 |
poolio |
my question
is do I need to run r_init_resource and bn_rand_init once (on each
cpu) for the whole program, or do I need to run it every time I
extract a new rt_i from the database |
| 05:24.25 |
brlcad |
every time
you get a new rt_i |
| 05:24.30 |
poolio |
alright
thanks |
| 05:24.38 |
brlcad |
but clean the
old rt_i first like you're doing |
| 05:24.41 |
poolio |
k |
| 05:36.15 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-228-127.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:02.45 |
poolio |
gnite
zZz |
| 06:07.04 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 06:40.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: moved global vars
to fstate and general cleanup |
| 07:36.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:56.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54874D38.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:08.02 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 08:17.25 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:17.25 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 08:25.30 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
post/cable heh -- my bad -- I was thinking of coordinates for
second set of params, not vectors :P |
| 10:22.12 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p5487565E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:34.24 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-86-90.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:34.29 |
thing0 |
hey
guys! |
| 11:34.34 |
thing0 |
got internet
access down here |
| 11:34.39 |
thing0 |
have to use
dialup |
| 11:34.42 |
thing0 |
but at least
I got it |
| 11:34.43 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 11:34.55 |
thing0 |
hey
brlcad |
| 11:51.45 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 11:52.51 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-86-90.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:11.43 |
*** part/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-86-90.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:39.14 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-094.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:47.31 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:49.09 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 15:29.45 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p54875F7D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:00.07 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565739.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:00.41 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: sorry
man machine check exception |
| 16:06.17 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/cG0YgV19.html
but this came up |
| 16:06.55 |
IriX64 |
our tree is
still untouched this is another copy |
| 16:09.03 |
IriX64 |
don't worry
about the -noinhibit-exec switch thats just a way to keep the build
process going so you can see all the errors and warnings in the
project |
| 16:27.23 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.114.145) |
| 16:58.52 |
IriX64 |
bwahha the
handicapped build is installing :) |
| 17:00.48 |
IriX64 |
wonder if
make bench will run on this |
| 17:02.33 |
IriX64 |
don't
freaking beleive it its doing it |
| 17:12.09 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/8dBwwd81.html
haha sweet benchmark |
| 17:21.43 |
IriX64 |
no fbserv
:) |
| 17:22.05 |
IriX64 |
err
:( |
| 17:22.48 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:23.04 |
poolio |
grrrrr |
| 17:23.45 |
IriX64 |
christ,everbody run :) |
| 17:24.31 |
poolio |
internet went
down, so I looked at the extension cable I had on the coaxial cable
and a mouse had chewed through it. :( |
| 17:25.17 |
IriX64 |
i take it
your cat had fried mouse or dinner then :) |
| 17:25.24 |
IriX64 |
err for
too |
| 18:26.07 |
poolio |
why does
return not return...? |
| 19:15.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: If I
am at some sort of intermediary step in the code and I have a file
I'm using to test a "module" of the program, should I commit the
file used to run/test the module ? |
| 19:16.12 |
brlcad |
up to you for
testing code, more of question of whether it'd be of any use to
anyone watching and/or will it be useful a year from now when it's
all said and done (even for just testing) |
| 19:17.07 |
brlcad |
system
integration tests are desirable .. running your tool and expecting
certain behavior |
| 19:18.20 |
brlcad |
we've not
gone down the road of white-/black-box testing or unit testing so
much |
| 19:18.51 |
brlcad |
a few of the
tools do, and include testing routines w/ test code, but most are
system level or non-existent |
| 19:19.02 |
brlcad |
so yeah..
whatever works for you ;) |
| 19:36.53 |
poolio |
brlcad: Well
in the near future the tool will probably no longer work, it's just
that at this step that other file is used as a "driver" to the
module |
| 19:51.17 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
opted to leave it out of the repository, but if you're curious in
testing I can send it to you |
| 19:51.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.h fitness.c):
modularized fitness functions |
| 20:11.15 |
brlcad |
only thing
really missing are the build files so I can test-compile here
;) |
| 20:14.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: annotate a couple of the bugs that dwayne
reported regarding facedef and permute not coordinating with the
display properly |
| 20:14.52 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:15.10 |
poolio_ |
sorry brlcad,
thought mmy laptop was plugged in but ... |
| 20:17.22 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
can I update configure.ac? |
| 20:19.04 |
*** join/#brlcad _Bariton_
(n=Bary@p54875E9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:20.58 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-094.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:23.47 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: more bugs from dwayne's issues sheet
including the return of the annoying cursor box character capture.
also note BoT editing bug (units always mm), overlap tool
inefficiency, and snap-to-grid issues. |
| 20:24.04 |
brlcad |
poolio: you
can update anything, the commits are reviewed by myself and
others |
| 20:24.16 |
brlcad |
if there's an
issue, I'd let you know, but don't be shy ;) |
| 20:25.35 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (Makefile.am beset.c): added
build files and test program |
| 20:26.27 |
poolio |
oh oops, two
more |
| 20:28.46 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/gtools/Makefile.am): updated
build files for beset |
| 20:30.02 |
poolio |
brlcad:
Alright, should be good to go =) |
| 20:32.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: move now takes a const
pointer to the pt |
| 20:34.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix another
knot issue with openNURBS; adjust brep tolerances (this needs to be
looked at in more depth) |
| 20:35.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: turn off some
debugging in the converter |
| 20:36.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: implement a region annointment command
where the user can turn an assembly into a region and change all
lower or higher regions into combinations |
| 20:38.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: make brep_hit a value
object (no dynamic alloc); now dropping hit points if they don't
fall within subsurface bbox; turned off bbox plotting |
| 20:39.41 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: validate primitives during export so that
it is guaranteed that illegal primitives will not be written to
file; preserve an arb8 as an arb8 (instead of writing as arb6 or
arb5) and similarly for the other arb# sizes |
| 20:41.00 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fix another
knot-related bug; remove debugging output; adjust flatness
tolerance for small curves |
| 20:42.57 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_brep.cpp: adjust
tolerance values in validity check - openNURBS was not using the
values specified by the user (it was using hardcoded tolerances...)
- this may need to be investigated further |
| 20:43.50 |
brlcad |
poolio:
coolio |
| 20:44.47 |
poolio |
brlcad: did
it work for you? |
| 20:48.44 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Implement an optical shader for the new
pixelated military camouflage style |
| 20:59.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-204-104.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:21.15 |
*** join/#brlcad cad14
(n=93f0ec08@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:30.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p54875E9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:36.22 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.03 |
poolio |
alright i'm
out for the night. gonna start working on the GA tomororw
:D |
| 21:42.52 |
yukonbob |
away |
| 21:43.03 |
yukonbob |
ww |
| 21:47.46 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: did
you read discussion of DISPLAY variables and how mged
attaches? |
| 21:53.00 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yes, I did and if I understood you correctly -- it wasn't
intentional that it keeps trying |
| 21:53.08 |
brlcad |
it is
intention that it tries :0 if display is not set |
| 21:56.25 |
brlcad |
and that was
merely a support balance decision .. there are more users that try
to run mged without ever having set display (particularly common on
Mac OS X) than there are X11 users that intentionally unset it for
some reason but have it running on :0 |
| 21:57.47 |
brlcad |
i'll look (or
you're welcome to look) into patching it up so that it obeys
display when it's set regardless of :0 working |
| 21:58.01 |
brlcad |
should just
be a couple lines |
| 22:00.02 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:00.17 |
yukonbob |
that sounds
good -- I don't know how far is looks, or if it's only the single
:0.0 that it looks for (that's actually all that I'm running), but
I can take a look... |
| 22:01.13 |
yukonbob |
as long as
there's not some other reason for having it, but _I_ can't think of
a good reason to have it, unless there's some internal (to ARL)
reason? |
| 22:17.41 |
brlcad |
depends what
the it is when you say by having "it" .. again checking :0 if
display is unset is intentional and will preferably stay -- what
wasn't intentional is trying :0 if display is set but doesn't
work |
| 22:19.06 |
brlcad |
there's no
reason really for the latter other than maybe just "try really hard
to show something on a local X display when all else fails" ..
which wasn't the intent |
| 22:29.15 |
yukonbob |
here's the
scenarios I tested: |
| 22:29.27 |
yukonbob |
my real
DISPLAY=:0.0 |
| 22:32.36 |
yukonbob |
setting
DISPLAY=192.168.99.99:0.0 (non-existant) seemed to try that, then
still connected to :0.0 |
| 22:34.16 |
yukonbob |
setting
DISPLAY='' also connected to :0.0 -- and I personally think this is
an error... if somebody is running X Window System on Mac (or
Windows, or anywhere), their display should be set... so from an
xterm for example, anybody could run mged and have is appear on the
proper display |
| 22:36.29 |
yukonbob |
mged picking
display's to run on that are not listed in DISPLAY is overstepping
it's responsibilities... |
| 23:06.07 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565739.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:37.17 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: I
entirely believe you that it's falling back to :0 .. I was just
saying that that part wasn't intentional -- the intent was for
systems were DISPLAY isn't set at all (i.e. running in Mac OS X
terminal mostly) |
| 23:39.16 |
brlcad |
and not
empty, but actually unset (which is a bit tricky to test for and
likely not accounting for empty either) :) |
| 23:39.39 |
yukonbob |
OK -- I think
we're on same page ;) |
| 23:40.18 |
brlcad |
probably not
entirely, I get the feeling that you'd like it to fail even try if
display isn't set too |
| 23:40.34 |
brlcad |
but the pages
are at least facing/close ;) |
| 23:40.35 |
yukonbob |
Is there a
native (ie: Aqua) build for MacOS X? (or a build for MacOS Classic
for that matter), or do/have the Macs always required an X Window
System installation? |
| 23:40.57 |
brlcad |
there's not
yet a native build |
| 23:41.08 |
brlcad |
that's part
of the reason for the upgrade to 8.5 |
| 23:41.18 |
brlcad |
a ton of
AquaTk stuff was fixed in libtk |
| 23:41.34 |
yukonbob |
nice... |
| 23:41.41 |
brlcad |
so far,
though, our mac dists have always required X11 on os x |
| 23:42.15 |
brlcad |
which is
exceptionally unfortunate towards the mac ethos.. that's by far the
#1 support issue .. how to run brl-cad on a mac |
| 23:43.09 |
brlcad |
no icon?
X-eleve-what? command thingie type what? display? terminal? xterm?
where's my icon? |
| 23:43.16 |
yukonbob |
ok -- I think
I _would_ like to fail if there's no DISPLAY set...(ie: running
from vt console...) If somebody is running it from w/i their
running X11 session (ie: from xterm) they'll have a working
DISPLAY, if they're trying to launch from bar on bottom... they'd
need a wrapper script that has default :0.0 perhaps? |
| 23:43.47 |
yukonbob |
^^ how about
a mac-specific wrapper script |
| 23:44.31 |
brlcad |
actually,
several open up terminal and try running from there .. sometimes
X11 is running, sometimes it's not even installed, .. one of the
most common, though was starting X11 yet typing mged in Terminal
(where DISPLAY isn't set) |
| 23:44.53 |
yukonbob |
that'd be
brlcad.runme, pulled into the launch bar... #!/bin/sh; env
DISPLAY=:0.0 brlcad.exe |
| 23:45.24 |
brlcad |
that would be
a good solution, though there is no brlcad.exe :) |
| 23:45.46 |
yukonbob |
you get my
point though ;) |
| 23:46.10 |
yukonbob |
btw, do you
know anything about X11 BigFonts? |
| 23:47.05 |
brlcad |
hm, as a
proper noun, not really |
| 23:48.00 |
brlcad |
a little
about "big fonts" in X11, though .. xfontsel your font, and go to
town ;) |
| 23:48.25 |
brlcad |
ah, huh..
wierd |
| 23:48.35 |
yukonbob |
1
sec... |
| 23:48.56 |
yukonbob |
bash-3.2$
pl-X < bridge_plot.plot |
| 23:48.56 |
yukonbob |
pl-X: Can't
open font |
| 23:49.17 |
brlcad |
source says
it should be trying "vtsingle" |
| 23:49.49 |
brlcad |
which is a
bizzare default.... |
| 23:50.00 |
brlcad |
hard-coded
nonetheless |
| 23:50.12 |
yukonbob |
OK -- I was
just assuming Bigfont was issue, because I see string: |
| 23:50.22 |
yukonbob |
"25509 1
pl-X read(0x3, 0xbfbfe54c, 0x20) = 32 |
| 23:50.22 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.25 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.28 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.30 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.33 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.35 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.38 |
yukonbob |
" |
| 23:50.43 |
yukonbob |
...and don't
have loaded, nor had I heard of it before... |
| 23:51.08 |
brlcad |
sounds like
some XFree internal symbol perhaps |
| 23:51.20 |
brlcad |
did it crash
on you or just say can't open? |
| 23:52.00 |
yukonbob |
xorg has lib
for it too -- I've only just started looking into it, but might be
mechanism for sharedmem for fonts... I'm just not clear (and might
not even pursue it if it's vtsingle issue). |
| 23:53.04 |
yukonbob |
just said
couldn't open... |
| 23:53.56 |
yukonbob |
to tagent
once more ;) ... |
| 23:54.01 |
yukonbob |
*tangent |
| 23:54.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:54.14 |
yukonbob |
are there
font method in mged? |
| 23:54.23 |
yukonbob |
*methods |
| 23:54.41 |
brlcad |
should
probably obey some -font option or something similar and default to
'fixed' or '6x10' or something |
| 23:55.17 |
brlcad |
there are
means to set/change the fonts if that's what you mean |
| 23:55.27 |
yukonbob |
ie: for using
fonts in renderings. |
| 23:55.50 |
brlcad |
File->Preferences->Fonts for
changing various aspects of mged |
| 23:56.03 |
brlcad |
ah, text on
renderings |
| 23:56.06 |
yukonbob |
(in title
font "my_cool_font.ttf" "This is my title") |
| 23:56.07 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565739.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:56.21 |
brlcad |
yes and no,
mostly no |
| 23:56.26 |
brlcad |
that's been a
desire for quite a while |
| 23:56.59 |
brlcad |
yes in the
sense that there's a way to do it, but it's really a round-about
way that is rather overly complicated |
| 23:57.29 |
brlcad |
yes you can
get to NYC from Miami on a unicycle... but you probably don't want
to |
| 23:58.15 |
yukonbob |
alright ---
I'll leave fonts at that for now ;) |
| 23:59.30 |
yukonbob |
if I supply
patches, should I just mail them to you, or post here, or
?? |
| 00:01.49 |
brlcad |
if you post
just one patch to the patches tracker, I'd just as well give you
commit access so long as you've read the hacking file |
| 00:02.21 |
yukonbob |
where's that
document? |
| 00:02.24 |
brlcad |
all commits
are reviewed by myself and others, so the more the merrier
;) |
| 00:02.31 |
brlcad |
new devs
welcome |
| 00:02.35 |
brlcad |
it's in the
top-level |
| 00:02.37 |
brlcad |
HACKING |
| 00:02.49 |
brlcad |
that's the
basic dev guide |
| 00:03.53 |
brlcad |
nothing is
set in stone, but it at least lays down some consistency
structure |
| 00:04.49 |
brlcad |
intentionally
do avoid some of the more mundane "bikeshed" issues |
| 00:06.02 |
IriX64 |
and i suppose
if i bitch long enough you'll ask me why I don't fix it myself
;) |
| 00:06.21 |
brlcad |
IriX64: in
your case, no I wouldn't :) |
| 00:06.42 |
IriX64 |
good just so
you know I'm *not capable :) |
| 00:07.34 |
brlcad |
now is an
opportune time for devs though as the activity is such that even my
ability to review all commits isn't swamped yet (such that new devs
couldn't be added without peer-review delegation) |
| 00:08.04 |
IriX64 |
no...thanks
:) |
| 00:09.32 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/IwLSo887.html
heh look at the cflags |
| 00:10.24 |
brlcad |
IriX64: not
bad, that will get you better performance |
| 00:10.50 |
brlcad |
it's
something that would be nice to do automatically some day when
--enable-optimized is turned on too |
| 00:10.57 |
brlcad |
at least some
variation |
| 00:11.09 |
IriX64 |
should i'm
hoping it works actually |
| 00:11.17 |
brlcad |
IriX64: there
are other gcc flags that will give you even more performance that
you might want to test out as well |
| 00:11.51 |
IriX64 |
thankyou ill
look :) |
| 00:11.52 |
brlcad |
given how
much you like to compile and run the benchmarks, that certainly be
useful to figure out -- what's the absolute best performance you
can get simply out of tweaking compilation CFLAGS |
| 00:12.23 |
IriX64 |
have to
disable debug and symbols tho if you really want it to
scream |
| 00:12.47 |
IriX64 |
i like debug
on :) |
| 00:13.10 |
brlcad |
another set
of flags are the ones for alignment, i.e. -falign-functions,
-falign-jumps, -falign-labels, -falign-loops, etc .. those can
boost performance particularly well and in concert with other
flags |
| 00:13.28 |
IriX64 |
btw i was
wrong flushall() isn't needed fcloseall() does that too |
| 00:13.42 |
brlcad |
that was
actually an amusing discovery -- disabling debug without turning on
alignment can actually slow it down |
| 00:14.03 |
IriX64 |
heh ill
play |
| 00:14.03 |
IriX64 |
don't mind
waiting 50 minutes per |
| 00:14.16 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
abort() closes any descriptors that weren't closed too |
| 00:14.37 |
IriX64 |
never used
abort so i don't know |
| 00:18.14 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
rock'n'roll... I'll let you get back to your work, and we can
catch-up later for commit access (is cvs, svn, other?) |
| 00:20.53 |
brlcad |
cvs at the
moment, svn before the end of the year |
| 00:21.18 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: use 'fixed' font by default
instead of the obscure 'vtsingle' font.. should really have a
cmd-line option to set/override |
| 00:21.46 |
brlcad |
hm, now how
to work pl-X .. haven't used it in years |
| 00:22.02 |
yukonbob |
pl-X <
my_plotfile.plot |
| 00:22.29 |
brlcad |
hrmph..
flashes my plot file then exits |
| 00:23.34 |
brlcad |
ah, well now
that's stupid... |
| 00:24.03 |
brlcad |
it just
sleeps for a second then exits |
| 00:24.12 |
yukonbob |
heh --
cheap |
| 00:24.13 |
brlcad |
and assumes
single-buffered |
| 00:33.05 |
yukonbob |
heh -- no
kidding? ;) What are you running IriX64? |
| 00:33.16 |
IriX64 |
winaxe at the
moment |
| 00:33.58 |
IriX64 |
shows the
geometry in color but bring up a frame buffer and the graphic
screen and command screen go black |
| 00:34.43 |
IriX64 |
touch one of
those other screens and they revert to normal tho |
| 00:36.28 |
IriX64 |
nice online
help tho |
| 00:37.39 |
IriX64 |
twingy was
right i know nothing about lighting, all my havoc photonmaps come
out sorta dark |
| 00:40.52 |
IriX64 |
doh...it's
taking so long cause you started a compile and forgot about it goof
:) |
| 00:41.54 |
IriX64 |
http://www.winaxe.com/x-windows-for-windows.html |
| 00:42.00 |
IriX64 |
there
yukonbob |
| 00:48.30 |
IriX64 |
still have
fits trying to cut from the xside and pasting to the windows
side |
| 00:51.10 |
yukonbob |
winaxe looks
like an x server, not a window manager... |
| 00:51.10 |
yukonbob |
how long does
evaluation last? |
| 00:51.29 |
IriX64 |
thats what it
is and a whole lot more |
| 00:51.41 |
IriX64 |
hasn't
expired yet and ive had it a month |
| 00:53.21 |
IriX64 |
whup oh well
:) |
| 01:00.49 |
IriX64 |
demo time is
up oh well |
| 01:02.30 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 01:04.17 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob it's
demo ware shuts down on you after i think 60 minutes |
| 01:05.12 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: so
did you buy your copy? |
| 01:05.16 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: the
built-in regex in brlcad... is it just henry spencers lib, or
?? |
| 01:09.38 |
brlcad |
yes it
is |
| 01:11.11 |
brlcad |
everything in
src/other is really just provided for compilation convenience so
users don't have to go download anything -- using pre-installed or
build-system installed libraries are generally preferred of
course |
| 01:11.53 |
brlcad |
libregex is
an interesting case, though -- have found several regex
implementations that perform _considerably_ slower than spencer's
earlier 90 |
| 01:12.11 |
yukonbob |
right -- I'm
just going through all this on my NetBSD system to try to build
dependencies w/i the pkgsrc system, and keep everything
"admin-able" w/i the pgksrc framework... |
| 01:12.20 |
brlcad |
90's
implementation .. or buggy even, where spencers has no problem
(with massive expressions for example) |
| 01:13.22 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
ideally, you should/could get it to work with
--disable-almost-everything (and maybe then add --enable-tcl-build
--enable-tk-build since they're pre-release) |
| 01:13.46 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I'm
still playing w/ 7.8, since it's not dealing w/ 8.5... |
| 01:15.25 |
yukonbob |
I use tcl/tk
on my system anyway... if I wasn't worried about collisions, I'd
just install the 8.5... |
| 01:15.26 |
brlcad |
i really wish
we didn't have to upgrade to 8.5, it's the first time in recent
memory (ever?) that we've gone to a pre-release version, usually
hanging behind a few versions |
| 01:15.45 |
brlcad |
but getting
AquaTk working is a bit of a high-priority item |
| 01:16.10 |
yukonbob |
I guess I
could install a chroot environ for brlcad and go w/
8.5... |
| 01:16.27 |
brlcad |
the problem
you'll run into in 7.8 is that we actually required a custom
tk |
| 01:16.40 |
brlcad |
brl-cad
included several tk mods that were being integrated upstream into
tk |
| 01:16.49 |
brlcad |
new canvas
widget in particular |
| 01:17.48 |
brlcad |
the process
with the tcl/tk folks, however, just become too much of a burden so
much of that code has been rewritten, decoupled, and/or removed, so
that we can build with a clean tcl/tk again -- none of those
changes are in 7.8 though iirc |
| 01:18.13 |
brlcad |
that's
functionality limited to just one feature of mged, but it means
you'll probably have to have a patch to successfully compile
against a system tcl/tk |
| 01:19.44 |
yukonbob |
ahh --- that
makes sense --- I witnessed what you were talking about, but didn't
finish looking into it... |
| 01:19.58 |
yukonbob |
7.10 removes
that restriction? |
| 01:20.15 |
brlcad |
our tk
enhancements are the predominant reason why we're still not
integrated into the various package management systems like ports,
apt, fink, etc, and part of the motivation for much of the changes
in 7.10 |
| 01:20.43 |
brlcad |
yeah, latest
head removes that restriction and builds cleanly now |
| 01:22.01 |
yukonbob |
alright --
well, I've got 7.8.4 building on my machine, but using it's
(necessarily) custom tcl/tk... but I'm going to move to playing w/
7.10 then... tcl/tk 8.5 is going to have to make it to the system
sometime anyway... |
| 01:23.22 |
yukonbob |
what's the
feature of mged that required the core-patch to tk? |
| 01:24.06 |
brlcad |
the Sketch
Editor |
| 01:24.22 |
brlcad |
it draws on a
custom Bezier Canvas widget |
| 01:24.36 |
yukonbob |
right -- /me
explored that briefly... |
| 01:25.05 |
brlcad |
that's the
item in the TODO remaining for 7.10.2 release that I've left to
deal with |
| 01:25.22 |
yukonbob |
there's
currently no sketch editor? |
| 01:25.24 |
brlcad |
as it's
presently just turned off -- need to make it use a different canvas
widget |
| 01:25.48 |
yukonbob |
OK -- so
sketching fucntionality is temporarily missing in 7.10.x,
correct? |
| 01:25.48 |
brlcad |
currently on
head -- should be restored prior to release, but I have to code
that up |
| 01:26.21 |
brlcad |
in 7.10.1
yes |
| 01:34.02 |
brlcad |
``Erik: just
fyi, a particular server is under massive woes at the moment ..
went nutty and eventually locked up |
| 01:34.53 |
brlcad |
it was having
a helluva time scrubbing .. massive delays and crashed or was
rebooted this morning, and spent most of the day fscking only to
later lock up hard |
| 01:36.49 |
``Erik |
um |
| 01:36.55 |
``Erik |
bring it up
single user mode |
| 01:36.55 |
Twingy |
you guys
haven't thrown that in the garbage can yet? |
| 01:36.59 |
``Erik |
disable
background fsck |
| 01:37.08 |
Twingy |
it's
ancient |
| 01:37.09 |
brlcad |
massive woes
with services after the earlier reboot too, many libraries were
apparently updated without the tools being rebuilt so they all fail
with missing library errors (this was before the crash) |
| 01:37.10 |
``Erik |
that's what
kills it |
| 01:37.25 |
``Erik |
huh |
| 01:37.29 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 01:37.34 |
``Erik |
didja world
it? |
| 01:37.38 |
``Erik |
um |
| 01:37.40 |
brlcad |
i was in the
midst of rebuilding smbd when it locked up |
| 01:37.54 |
``Erik |
I think the
only big consumers left are us and bills guys |
| 01:38.14 |
brlcad |
yeah, bills
guys were up in arms as he's got pjt breathing down at him for some
data |
| 01:38.28 |
brlcad |
I'll be in
early early tomorrow to hopefully upline it |
| 01:38.46 |
``Erik |
um, you can
mount it ro |
| 01:38.49 |
``Erik |
to get the
data to 'em |
| 01:39.27 |
brlcad |
well at the
moment, it aint doing anything since it locked up -- didn't have
time to deal with the crash today |
| 01:40.02 |
``Erik |
um, when ti's
booting, and hits the |/-\ scroller, hit backspace or something, do
"boot -s" to get single user mode |
| 01:40.12 |
``Erik |
then you can
mount stuff up, etc, get the production need off |
| 01:40.24 |
brlcad |
I can manage,
but thought you might like to know in case you try to get in .. 2
is still scrubbing btw (with curiously/exceptionally low cpu/io
usage) |
| 01:40.48 |
brlcad |
where's
background fsck stashed? |
| 01:58.49 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601029.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:02.30 |
IriX64 |
rotten cat
keeps pressing my reboot button while crying for milk
:) |
| 02:03.15 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob if
you're interested in windows xservers xwin32 is pretty decent
too |
| 02:03.26 |
IriX64 |
commercial
also |
| 02:03.57 |
IriX64 |
also mi_x
4.2 |
| 02:04.11 |
IriX64 |
and my fav
cygwin-x |
| 02:12.26 |
``Erik |
/etc/rc.conf
has the inf0z, um, it's a feature to regular fsck |
| 02:12.33 |
``Erik |
-F vs -B or
something |
| 02:13.00 |
``Erik |
background
fsck requires soft updates turned on, so if you have it unmounted,
you COULD use tunefs to disable softupdates |
| 02:13.07 |
``Erik |
I believe you
can turn them back on with the fs live |
| 02:13.40 |
``Erik |
(softupdates
is essentially a smarter operation order, the theory being that by
doing the ops in a concurrency friendly order, a journaled FS is
unnecessary) |
| 02:14.24 |
brlcad |
how long does
the fsck usually take? |
| 02:14.41 |
``Erik |
straight fsck
without softupdates (fg mode) is maybe 1-1.5 hours |
| 02:15.18 |
brlcad |
i might just
bring it up single user then, do the fsck, then get them their
data |
| 02:15.37 |
brlcad |
then fool
around with any fixings |
| 02:15.42 |
``Erik |
that'd be the
best way, I think |
| 02:15.59 |
``Erik |
I'll try to
keep half an eye on irc, or you have my cellphone # |
| 02:16.15 |
brlcad |
you're on
vacation, I ain't calling |
| 02:16.22 |
brlcad |
that's just
wrong |
| 02:16.32 |
``Erik |
aight
*shrug* |
| 02:16.36 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 02:16.37 |
``Erik |
if you get
terribly stuck, though *shrug* |
| 02:16.47 |
``Erik |
I seriously
doubt you will |
| 02:16.52 |
``Erik |
but
*shrug* |
| 02:17.15 |
brlcad |
maybe someone
would call the MPs and say there's something explosive inside the
case |
| 02:17.40 |
``Erik |
my big plans
for tomorrow are to make pretzels from scratch *shrug* |
| 02:17.50 |
``Erik |
heh,
different kind of "blow up" |
| 02:18.14 |
brlcad |
the server's
.. uh .. down. permanently. |
| 02:18.34 |
``Erik |
up... way
up.. in many pieces... |
| 02:20.39 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/PujJym17.html
dunno if i should paste stuff like this |
| 02:21.31 |
IriX64 |
if xwin32
doesn't time out on me ill post the results on the blog |
| 02:26.30 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
brlcad albumn first pix |
| 02:28.16 |
IriX64 |
should test
some of the other lighting models i guess |
| 02:28.19 |
poolio |
brlcad:
Tomorrow I'm probably going to be researching/designing the GA
framework. If I write / sketch stuff by hand, is it fine if I just
keep that to myself and use it or would you rather be able to see
my progress/ideas |
| 02:46.15 |
brlcad |
IriX64: not
unless you intend to fix them :) |
| 02:46.44 |
brlcad |
sub
millimeter overlaps are not cause for concern regardless, you can
quell the reporting with a command line option |
| 02:47.21 |
IriX64 |
the lighting
models? |
| 02:47.38 |
IriX64 |
fix them?
snort! |
| 02:47.41 |
brlcad |
poolio: your
development workflow is your own .. just the code should be very
well documented as to what is going on, even if you need to resort
to ascii art :) |
| 02:47.48 |
brlcad |
IriX64: no,
the overlaps |
| 02:49.47 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
you won't be worried if you don't see code? (my main question was
proving that I was working( |
| 02:50.01 |
IriX64 |
the overlap
tool is capable of that but i don't know what i'm doing with
it |
| 02:50.45 |
IriX64 |
err gui
overlap tool |
| 02:51.05 |
IriX64 |
ill show you
it wait a few minutes |
| 02:54.10 |
brlcad |
poolio: ahh,
no, that's fine |
| 02:54.28 |
IriX64 |
the blog
brlcad albumn tool1 & tool2 |
| 02:54.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: ok.
I'll try to get the main framework outline done and include that as
part of my project writeup and email that to you
tomorrow |
| 02:55.03 |
brlcad |
IriX64: I
don't want/need to see the overlap tool .. I know more than well
enough what all of mged looks like ... |
| 02:55.25 |
IriX64 |
sorry thought
you expressed an interest :) |
| 02:55.26 |
brlcad |
poolio:
sounds great |
| 03:03.29 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob_
(n=bch@whthyt247-240.northwestel.net) |
| 03:06.08 |
IriX64 |
watch it
poolio he'll send the policio after you if it's not proper
:) |
| 03:06.43 |
IriX64 |
maybe that
should be mpios :) |
| 03:07.29 |
IriX64 |
brlcad got
time to tend to my build problem or should we shelve that for
now? |
| 03:12.40 |
IriX64 |
same blog
same albumn compare to the native windows version. |
| 03:12.45 |
IriX64 |
tool3 |
| 03:13.46 |
IriX64 |
that bob@mako
is good :) |
| 03:16.28 |
IriX64 |
prefer the
cygwin port myself ;) |
| 03:20.42 |
brlcad |
IriX64: i'm
working on it |
| 03:22.49 |
poolio |
brlcad: did
you try running the beset fitness test prog? I just want to make
sure I added it to cvs right |
| 03:24.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: also
when you were saying variable length genomes were difficult, had
you ever looked at genetic programming? Apparently GAs and GPs
aren't just synonyms, GPs are tailored to run on trees (of variable
sizes) |
| 03:38.48 |
IriX64 |
I'm reloading
the IriX64 blog with past effortts,designs,disasters :) |
| 03:39.40 |
IriX64 |
The IriX32
blog is only half of me :) |
| 03:45.08 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 03:52.04 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 03:57.15 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt247-240.northwestel.net) |
| 05:25.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: |
| 05:25.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: big
update/enhancements so that pl-X is actually functional and useful.
if the |
| 05:25.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: last
command in a plot file is an erase command, don't do it (wth show a
black |
| 05:25.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
window). most importantly, keep the window up until the user
presses a key. |
| 05:25.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
additional goodness, if we're on Mac OS X, make sure X11 has focus.
ignore |
| 05:25.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
newlines in the file for kicks. |
| 06:47.53 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
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| 07:20.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 08:34.52 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
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| 08:53.59 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 09:04.36 |
*** join/#brlcad fressbaer
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| 09:04.43 |
fressbaer |
hello |
| 09:18.04 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 09:42.13 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(i=cia@208.69.182.149) |
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| 10:02.46 |
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| 10:23.39 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 10:41.40 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 11:19.27 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
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| 11:26.39 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-87-73.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:26.52 |
thing0 |
hey
all |
| 11:40.57 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:41.28 |
thing0 |
hey
elite01 |
| 11:41.29 |
thing0 |
sup? |
| 11:41.36 |
elite01 |
home!
:) |
| 11:41.39 |
elite01 |
(just got
home) |
| 11:42.00 |
elite01 |
and now,
fortune spit with a quote form "Edwim Schrodinger" at
me |
| 11:47.08 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-168-87-73.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:47.11 |
*** part/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-168-87-73.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:47.13 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-168-87-73.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:47.28 |
thing1 |
damn dialup
drop out |
| 11:47.29 |
thing1 |
argh |
| 11:47.29 |
thing1 |
hehe |
| 11:50.27 |
thing1 |
damn |
| 13:51.47 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:20.28 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:43.27 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:01.37 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 16:03.25 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:15.49 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:57.56 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 17:57.32 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 18:17.17 |
poolio |
brlcad:
You've got mail :) |
| 18:35.30 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:54.07 |
poolio |
brlcad: also
when you get a chance, maybe you could explain how brlcad deals
with the CSG trees :) |
| 19:31.31 |
IriX64 |
make
install |
| 19:34.55 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/VZiv2N84.html
< --- fbserv on the windows side :) |
| 19:41.20 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/axrGmn24.html
< --- heheh it works sorrry to be so verbose :) |
| 19:42.39 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601029.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:46.11 |
IriX64 |
now to copy
my latest effort from cygwin to windows.... wish me luck
:) |
| 19:48.09 |
IriX64 |
this thing is
huge, over a gig for the tree, course thats a static
compile |
| 19:48.47 |
IriX64 |
err
link |
| 19:50.34 |
IriX64 |
name
something that by all rights should not work, i'm trying to be
complete here |
| 19:51.20 |
IriX64 |
man 2,708
files, 90 folders |
| 19:51.57 |
IriX64 |
thats
everything except adrt |
| 19:55.30 |
IriX64 |
crap metaball
creation still crashes it :( |
| 20:04.57 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/8AaDui37.html
< --- just so you know i'm working with your code |
| 20:24.31 |
IriX64 |
ah i see
metaball not implemented in this version |
| 20:24.58 |
IriX64 |
so why does
it crash mged |
| 20:41.27 |
IriX64 |
bu_log..... |
| 20:42.05 |
IriX64 |
to each his
own :) |
| 20:47.58 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875D9F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:13.11 |
IriX64 |
48kc ...
interesting :) |
| 21:16.46 |
IriX64 |
starting
another tree to go edit happy in, yours brlcad awaits you
:) |
| 21:18.00 |
brlcad |
poolio: got
it, thanks! |
| 21:18.07 |
brlcad |
IriX64: five
lines... |
| 21:18.29 |
IriX64 |
again i don't
count well but ill try |
| 21:19.20 |
IriX64 |
you've gotta
admit what i lack in expertise i make up form in enthusiasm
:) |
| 21:21.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: cool
cool. I've started kind of outlining in pseudocode what the
framework is gonna be like |
| 21:21.23 |
brlcad |
IriX64: which
is the main reason you've not been ejected ;) |
| 21:21.35 |
brlcad |
others
wouldn't be so patient |
| 21:21.39 |
brlcad |
so please try
to count |
| 21:21.42 |
IriX64 |
heh thanks
for your tolerance :) |
| 21:21.47 |
IriX64 |
ill
try |
| 21:23.26 |
poolio |
brlcad: the
whole tree layout and whatnot in librt are quite confusing to me
:$ |
| 21:24.27 |
brlcad |
poolio: I'll
read it in more detail later this evening and add some of my own
comments and edits for sharing around "in house" (mainly adding
extra detail on the "big picture" of why try to do this at
all) |
| 21:25.23 |
brlcad |
poolio: the
csg tree is a directed acyclic graph that can be turned into a
binary directed tree or left in graph form |
| 21:25.51 |
brlcad |
you generally
don't have to care other than knowing how to create a hierarchy
(which you don't need just yet ;) |
| 21:26.56 |
brlcad |
first input
test case should be just a simple sphere |
| 21:37.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yes,
but I'd like to have it correclty interact with the csg tree, even
if it's just one shape |
| 21:38.15 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'd
also appreciate more comments on the big picture, I don't think I
entirely understand it :) |
| 21:39.29 |
poolio |
bascially I
want to learn how to work with the csg tree now, that way
everything will work the same when I go to more shapes or
operations the current structure won't work and will need to be
heavily updated. I'd pretty much have to rewrite all of the genome
encoding and reading stuff |
| 21:44.49 |
brlcad |
poolio: from
a construction perspective, maybe look at src/proc-db and man
libwdb |
| 21:45.12 |
brlcad |
and perhaps
src/mk |
| 21:45.30 |
brlcad |
they includes
lots of examples on creating geometry in memory, creating .g
geometry files |
| 21:46.12 |
poolio |
alright
cool |
| 21:46.34 |
poolio |
also, is a
good way of approaching the storage of objects putting htem in a .g
file and manipulating/reading/writing from there? that's the way I
currently hvae it set up |
| 21:46.40 |
brlcad |
there's a way
to create/open in-memory-only geometry files as well, but I'd
recommend actually sticking to creating actual files so results can
be reviewed, manually loaded, etc |
| 21:47.07 |
poolio |
brlcad: Well
I think it's probalby better to keep it optionally stored to a
file, that way if you want to speed it up when you run in parallel
it will be a lot better |
| 21:47.14 |
poolio |
otherwise
you're transmitting quite a lot of data back and forth |
| 21:47.58 |
brlcad |
fwiw, that's
getting into the realm of optimization where you've not yet
profiled .. |
| 21:48.11 |
poolio |
true
:P |
| 21:48.34 |
poolio |
It's just a
thought. Also for me testing I need to try to keep it reasonably
fast otherwise I might go days computing |
| 21:48.52 |
brlcad |
it's a good
concern, but I can categorically say that you're very likely not
going to be I/O bound writing geometry to disk -- ray-tracing will
dominate |
| 21:48.55 |
poolio |
and I don't
know how large the .g file will grow to, but I guess I can always
just scale it down |
| 21:49.35 |
brlcad |
the .g files
shouldn't be more than a few K, they're rather compact for
CSG |
| 21:50.04 |
brlcad |
a full tank
in csg can be often only a few MB |
| 21:50.24 |
poolio |
brlcad: ok
:) |
| 21:50.24 |
brlcad |
whereas in
polygonal form, they might be a GB |
| 21:50.47 |
brlcad |
there's about
two orders of magnitude difference |
| 21:51.11 |
poolio |
that's quite
crazy. Some insane compression if it works well :) |
| 21:54.42 |
poolio |
brlcad: also
the reason I want to work with trees is because of the crossover,
mutation, and reproduction aspects. I'd rather code them to work
with trees than with whatever shape I'm working with |
| 21:54.50 |
poolio |
although I
guess the only thing that will exist is mutation |
| 21:54.51 |
brlcad |
.g overhead
is 104 bytes to stub out an empty file, each primitive is roughly
about 100-500 bytes |
| 21:54.54 |
poolio |
(in a
one-shape system) |
| 21:56.00 |
*** join/#brlcad _yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 22:24.02 |
IriX64 |
anybody know
the latest version of solaris? issolaris5 is good but.. |
| 22:24.11 |
IriX64 |
ie
too |
| 22:43.06 |
IriX64 |
haha
solaris10 :) |
| 22:43.51 |
IriX64 |
testing your
solaris code i.e -DSOLARIS :) |
| 22:51.21 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/z44nf372.html
lets see if it even starts to build |
| 22:54.12 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/oJxZEi22.html
heh i'll shutup now :) |
| 00:56.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
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| 02:01.01 |
yukonbob |
RodGallowGlass: man gcc says "387", "sse",
or "see,387" |
| 02:01.15 |
yukonbob |
*ssc,387 |
| 02:01.28 |
yukonbob |
*sse,387
;) |
| 02:10.39 |
RodGallowGlass |
ahh the
"other" processor on the chip, thanks man ;) |
| 02:51.05 |
RodGallowGlass |
http://Irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff
shot of what im doing at the moment (I like to share)
:) |
| 03:16.02 |
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| 11:53.23 |
*** join/#brlcad drmad
(n=drmad@dyn-83-154-82-210.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 11:53.37 |
drmad |
hello
everybody |
| 11:54.38 |
drmad |
I'm trying to
install brlcad and I have an error message, can someone help please
? |
| 12:02.31 |
drmad |
This is
probably just a small problem :~ |
| 12:11.06 |
yukonbob_ |
drmad: tell
us what the msg is :) |
| 12:23.32 |
drmad |
make[4]: ***
Pas de règle pour fabriquer la cible « jove-tutorial », nécessaire
pour « all-am ». Arrêt. |
| 12:23.32 |
drmad |
make[4]:
quittant le répertoire «
/home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/jove » |
| 12:23.32 |
drmad |
make[3]: ***
[all] Erreur 2 |
| 12:23.32 |
drmad |
make[3]:
quittant le répertoire «
/home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/jove » |
| 12:23.32 |
drmad |
make[2]: ***
[all-recursive] Erreur 1 |
| 12:23.35 |
drmad |
make[2]:
quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other
» |
| 12:23.37 |
drmad |
make[1]: ***
[all-recursive] Erreur 1 |
| 12:23.39 |
drmad |
make[1]:
quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src
» |
| 12:24.07 |
drmad |
make: ***
[all-recursive] Erreur 1 |
| 12:24.07 |
drmad |
bash-3.1$ |
| 12:59.23 |
drmad |
it means "no
target to install jove-tutotial" |
| 12:59.52 |
elite01 |
i think you
should configure with --disable-jove or soemthing like
that |
| 13:01.54 |
drmad |
what for jove
is used in brlcad ? |
| 13:02.08 |
elite01 |
i think it's
some text editor |
| 13:02.15 |
elite01 |
i also
believe no one needs it :) |
| 13:05.21 |
drmad |
I have found
jove in slackware repository, it try again |
| 13:06.38 |
drmad |
I have found
jove in slackware repository, I try again |
| 13:08.26 |
drmad |
I never used
any CAD software, is brlcad good to start with ? What is the best
tutorial to use ? |
| 13:09.03 |
elite01 |
the
"introduction to mged" at http://www.brlcad.org/ is
ok |
| 13:12.27 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:15.19 |
drmad |
it compiles
hardly... |
| 13:22.13 |
poolio |
MORNIN |
| 13:22.20 |
poolio |
oopsies. |
| 13:43.42 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
have some questions for you when you return :) |
| 15:02.58 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:00.49 |
*** join/#brlcad avegas
(n=vegas@71-36-200-5.eugn.qwest.net) |
| 17:00.58 |
avegas |
hi
there, |
| 17:01.07 |
drmad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.29 |
avegas |
are you folks
mainly developers, or users, or both? |
| 17:03.11 |
RodGallowGlass |
some of us
like me, are neither and just play around :) |
| 17:03.36 |
avegas |
:D |
| 17:04.49 |
avegas |
so, a few
friends of mine want to try and build a web based CAD program, and
I'm wondering if the BRL-CAD source would be a good thing to read
around in to maybe get some ideas |
| 17:05.31 |
archivist |
web based
!!!! |
| 17:05.32 |
avegas |
and it also
seems interesting that BRL-CAD is split into all these modular
little utilities, that could maybe be repurposed to do server-side
work |
| 17:05.56 |
avegas |
yeah, I think
it's a semi-ridiculous idea, but I like working on
those |
| 17:06.25 |
avegas |
it would be
in service of this whole 'fab-lab' community-oriented desktop
fabrication thing |
| 17:06.37 |
avegas |
:D |
| 17:06.37 |
archivist |
I have
started on a diagramming tool for databases thats web
based |
| 17:06.56 |
avegas |
are you using
canvas, or svg, or something else? |
| 17:07.05 |
archivist |
something
else |
| 17:07.21 |
archivist |
comments here
http://www.archivist.info/search/index.php/Erd
and beta test here http://www.archivist.info/wench/erd.php |
| 17:07.39 |
archivist |
lots to do
yet |
| 17:07.51 |
avegas |
that's pretty
standard |
| 17:07.54 |
avegas |
looks
neat |
| 17:08.15 |
archivist |
as a 3d
modeller user I dont think the web is right for that |
| 17:09.46 |
archivist |
too much to
send in each direction |
| 17:10.23 |
RodGallowGlass |
archivist...
^5's |
| 17:16.52 |
avegas |
yeah, it's
main initial goal would be for pcbs |
| 17:20.09 |
archivist |
hmm Ive been
a pcb designer in the past |
| 17:20.53 |
archivist |
are you
thinking autorouting or hand editing |
| 17:23.50 |
RodGallowGlass |
archivist,
you a p-cad user? |
| 17:24.00 |
archivist |
yes |
| 17:24.07 |
RodGallowGlass |
thought
so |
| 17:24.17 |
archivist |
5 on
dos |
| 17:24.35 |
RodGallowGlass |
is there a
good windows version yet? |
| 17:25.05 |
archivist |
dunno ones
ive seen seem backwards in useability |
| 17:25.15 |
RodGallowGlass |
have'nt
played with that in 10 years |
| 17:26.02 |
RodGallowGlass |
came up with
a program to dump the plot on the screen to laser since print
screen couldn't do it |
| 17:26.19 |
RodGallowGlass |
rather than
plotting the whole file |
| 17:26.24 |
archivist |
heh worth
keeping 486's going for |
| 17:26.30 |
RodGallowGlass |
yes |
| 17:26.49 |
RodGallowGlass |
plenty of
spares ;) |
| 17:28.00 |
RodGallowGlass |
laserjet II
still have the program somewhere if you want it it was a little
tsr |
| 17:29.12 |
archivist |
I keep a
postscript HP for prints, view the plots in pcgerber |
| 17:29.28 |
RodGallowGlass |
that too
works |
| 17:29.48 |
RodGallowGlass |
this laser
also had the plotter cartridge |
| 17:31.17 |
RodGallowGlass |
the
autorouter is pretty good, rarely got caught in a no trace possible
condition, depending on the density |
| 17:36.38 |
archivist |
cant have
done tight boards then |
| 17:38.12 |
RodGallowGlass |
just small
stuff 15"x15" |
| 17:38.27 |
RodGallowGlass |
pie plates
:) |
| 17:38.57 |
RodGallowGlass |
hand editing
is .... interesting :) |
| 17:39.44 |
RodGallowGlass |
found the
source called it vgaprn |
| 17:39.53 |
archivist |
I normally
had restrictions on layers so had to do a lot of hand
routing |
| 17:40.14 |
RodGallowGlass |
understood,
you play serious play. |
| 17:40.40 |
RodGallowGlass |
its only two
k how much does rafb allow? |
| 17:40.45 |
RodGallowGlass |
2k |
| 17:41.18 |
archivist |
dunno |
| 17:41.25 |
RodGallowGlass |
erf
cgaprn |
| 17:41.38 |
RodGallowGlass |
dunno what
vgaprn is |
| 17:42.03 |
RodGallowGlass |
when this
thing frees up a little ill post it on rafb |
| 17:42.20 |
archivist |
ok |
| 17:51.07 |
RodGallowGlass |
http://rafb.net/p/sVOzsI89.html |
| 17:54.10 |
RodGallowGlass |
gotta reboot
be right back, well sorta right back |
| 17:54.16 |
*** part/#brlcad RodGallowGlass
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:59.09 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:00.20 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/d5Ya2c43.html
archivist this one has nothing to do with prtscrn :) |
| 18:08.22 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/46D3VG31.html
<----- archivist, my system cooks, I'm sure you're familiar
with this (it's beautiful :)) |
| 18:12.13 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.116.51) |
| 18:12.17 |
IriX64 |
salute
:) |
| 18:15.58 |
brlcad |
drmad: 7.10.0
had a file missing for jove, but jove is entirely non-critical and
can be disabled with --disable-jove |
| 18:16.06 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
have many a question for you. |
| 18:17.26 |
brlcad |
poolio: okay,
fire away |
| 18:17.33 |
brlcad |
i'm in and
out, so some might have a delay ;) |
| 18:17.47 |
poolio |
brlcad:
Remember when we were talking and said global scale doesn't matter,
like a sphere with a radius of 4 and a sphere of radius 2 should be
equivalent (if those are the only shapes you are comparing). Well
the issue is that when raytracing, the depth of the sphere (where
you get the hit_dist ances from) is going to change depending on
scale. So do you think it would be a good idea to normalize the
rays to their bounding box or should |
| 18:18.15 |
poolio |
Also, is
there a way to modify a shape in the database or should I just
rewrite it every time I update it? |
| 18:19.15 |
poolio |
And the big
issue I had was in thinking of how to generate a random population.
For a circle it's somewhat easy, you pick a point within the
bounding box, but you're leaving out a lot of points with that...
so for a sphere the acceptable possible center locations are going
to be less than the spheres radius away from the bounding box of
the source |
| 18:19.25 |
poolio |
I use source
to reference the data that we are trying to extract shapes
from |
| 18:19.48 |
poolio |
So for a
sphere it'd be trivial: randomly pick a radius in a certain range,
compute possible points, and pick those points |
| 18:20.54 |
poolio |
The issue
comes with other shapes... I'd have to come up with an algorithm to
have a given shapes bounding box in terms of the input points and
parameters. Like with an rpp neither of the min/max points need to
lie in the bounding box of the source for the rpp's bounding box to
intersect the source |
| 18:21.23 |
poolio |
so the main
issue I'm worried about is how to randomly generate points that
will have the shape those points belong to's bounding box intersect
the source's bounding box |
| 18:21.30 |
poolio |
alright I'll
stop asking there, I have more though :) |
| 18:23.58 |
poolio |
disclaimer: I
may drop out, crazy thunderstorms. |
| 18:28.06 |
brlcad |
whether you
normalize the shotlines to the bounding box size or not is entirely
up to you :) |
| 18:28.16 |
brlcad |
I think
there's merit to both approaches |
| 18:28.55 |
brlcad |
I *think*
normalizing will remove an optimization variable entirely, which
should help convergence, but can't say that definitiely .. just
intuitively |
| 18:29.08 |
poolio |
That's my
thought, it's just one less dimension |
| 18:29.23 |
poolio |
the question
is whether the time it takes to normalize the rays would be faster
or slower than having the GA learn the scale |
| 18:29.33 |
brlcad |
I would just
rewrite the shape for each new population -- write out a new .g
file even -- that takes *no* time in comparison to the fitness
evaluation |
| 18:29.58 |
poolio |
Well I'm not
writing out a new .g file, I'm overwriting the current shapes.
Would you say have a different .g file for each
generation? |
| 18:30.19 |
brlcad |
the only
issue that comes to mind for normalizing is that you'll need BB's
that are aligned to the grid of rays |
| 18:30.51 |
poolio |
brlcad: wait,
are the bounding boxes that are calculated OBBs? |
| 18:31.26 |
brlcad |
yeah, I was
thinking a new .g for each genotype even .. so you have a very
simple mapping of input to result output candidates |
| 18:31.58 |
poolio |
wait, so one
candidate solution for each .g file? |
| 18:32.11 |
brlcad |
that would
let you do things like save the best .g from a given population and
save it to a given dir, so you can see/keep the best from each
iteration |
| 18:32.47 |
poolio |
alright |
| 18:33.02 |
poolio |
and are the
bounding boxes that rt_prep calculates OBBs? |
| 18:33.08 |
brlcad |
whether it's
each candidate or each population shouldn't really matter -- if you
find it easier to do it per population, that'd work |
| 18:33.28 |
poolio |
I think I'll
leave it per population and I can write a quick routine to extract
and dump the best individuals from each into a new .g |
| 18:33.38 |
brlcad |
ooh, even
better than OBB .. you can probably just use the bounding sphere
(which I think is computed after prep) |
| 18:33.54 |
brlcad |
the
radius/diameter of the bounding sphere is probably enough to
normalize |
| 18:34.20 |
brlcad |
rt_prep
calculates AABB's iirc |
| 18:35.48 |
poolio |
alright |
| 18:36.04 |
poolio |
and any ideas
in terms of generating random candidates ? |
| 18:37.12 |
poolio |
and how do I
rotate an object in code? |
| 18:37.41 |
brlcad |
depends --
primitives are positioned/oriented in space exactly |
| 18:37.50 |
brlcad |
combinations
have matrices |
| 18:38.05 |
poolio |
exact
oreintation would be fine. i didn't see anything in libwdb about
orientation |
| 18:40.36 |
brlcad |
part of
mk_comb for combinations |
| 18:40.56 |
poolio |
well I think
I'm only going to be working with primitives and regions. I don't
really see a need for combinations as of now |
| 18:40.58 |
brlcad |
it returns a
matrix that you can set that is written during
wdb_close |
| 18:41.10 |
brlcad |
regions are
combinations |
| 18:41.17 |
poolio |
oh.
oops |
| 18:41.30 |
poolio |
well what
about rotating individual primitives? |
| 18:41.34 |
brlcad |
combinations
aren't necessarily regions, but all regions are
combinations |
| 18:42.01 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
worry about rotating individual primitives -- it's implicit in
their parameters |
| 18:42.02 |
poolio |
ok. Yeah I
saw some examples in proc-db |
| 18:42.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
it? I'm creating shapes (currently just spheres) with mk_sph() and
there's no specification for orientation |
| 18:42.33 |
brlcad |
e.g. if you
want an ellipsoid that stretches down the X axis, that's part of
the A/B vectors you have to provide |
| 18:42.50 |
poolio |
Oh I
see |
| 18:43.06 |
brlcad |
poolio:
what's the difference between a sphere facing down the X and one
facing down the Y axis? |
| 18:43.24 |
brlcad |
they're both
spheres that consume exactly the same space ;) |
| 18:43.29 |
poolio |
There is
none, but I was thinking about rectangles |
| 18:43.30 |
brlcad |
effectively
unoriented |
| 18:43.40 |
poolio |
but I guess
you'd just have the min/max points moved and that's
rotation |
| 18:44.15 |
brlcad |
right, you
define those corner points or plane equations that determines the
orientation |
| 18:44.28 |
brlcad |
part of the
nature of implicit geometry |
| 18:44.33 |
poolio |
alright. so
orientation is implicit in the creation of the
geoometry |
| 18:44.37 |
poolio |
:) |
| 18:45.25 |
brlcad |
yeah, part of
the primitive genotype |
| 18:45.27 |
poolio |
so the only
thing the GA needs to learn are the order of shapes and operators
in between them, and theoretically everything else is going to be
part of the parameters of the shapes that the combination is made
up of |
| 18:45.42 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 18:46.38 |
poolio |
alright cool,
so for nwo I'm going to try to get it to evolve a properly oriented
rectangle adn then tomorrow I'll need some help on going from
graphs --> trees and workign with that. I read through some of
the code but wasn't entirely clear |
| 18:47.10 |
poolio |
Also I might
have to have a sort of meta-GA to try to find the best parameters
for the GA -- mutation rates, crossover rates, etc... |
| 18:47.41 |
brlcad |
start with a
sphere |
| 18:47.46 |
poolio |
I have the
sphere working |
| 18:47.46 |
brlcad |
it's the
simplest case |
| 18:47.50 |
poolio |
The only
thing to learn with a sphere is scale |
| 18:47.55 |
poolio |
which will be
eliminated in a couple minutes |
| 18:47.59 |
poolio |
so there is
nothing to learn with a sphere at all |
| 18:48.05 |
brlcad |
but actually
evolving the sphere? |
| 18:48.09 |
brlcad |
sphere has a
position |
| 18:48.17 |
poolio |
Yes, but the
position is irrelevant |
| 18:48.29 |
brlcad |
you know
that |
| 18:48.34 |
poolio |
The grid of
rays is oreinted to the bounding box of the individual |
| 18:48.37 |
brlcad |
the GA
doesn't know that |
| 18:49.24 |
brlcad |
you can skip
it if you think it's too simple, but I still wouldn't jump to
arb8's .. they have too many parameters |
| 18:49.36 |
brlcad |
maybe go with
an ellipsoid then |
| 18:49.36 |
poolio |
So what would
you recommend? |
| 18:49.40 |
poolio |
alright |
| 18:50.00 |
brlcad |
another good
one would be a torus |
| 18:50.00 |
poolio |
The only
thing to worry about in a single-primitive population is the
orientation |
| 18:50.12 |
brlcad |
very few
parameters, but rather complex shape |
| 18:50.22 |
poolio |
alright. |
| 18:50.48 |
brlcad |
then maybe
move to arb8 or tgc |
| 18:50.57 |
poolio |
also the
issue with single shapes is it's fairly trivial, the only thing you
have is mutation so it's just choosing random numbers or modifying
the current one until it gets there |
| 18:50.59 |
brlcad |
those will be
two of the harder shapes I'd imagine |
| 18:51.48 |
poolio |
mind me
asking what a tgc is? |
| 18:51.56 |
brlcad |
truncated
general cone |
| 18:52.08 |
brlcad |
the entire
category of conics are represented via the tgc |
| 18:52.15 |
poolio |
oh
wow |
| 18:52.20 |
poolio |
cool
:) |
| 18:52.55 |
poolio |
Also I didn't
mean jump to arb8, I meant RPP, but yeah... |
| 18:54.48 |
brlcad |
you have seen
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
yes? |
| 18:55.51 |
poolio |
no! very
helpful :) |
| 18:56.05 |
brlcad |
all five of
the generalized conic shapes in the lower left are tgc |
| 18:56.22 |
brlcad |
all of the
boxes grouped up top are arb's |
| 18:56.48 |
drmad |
Thank you
brlcad, but it compiled fine after installing jove. I have to learn
now... |
| 18:57.21 |
brlcad |
drmad: the
tutorials on http://brlcad.org
(particularly the introduction to mged) are probably a good place
to start, or just poke around all of the commands |
| 18:59.58 |
drmad |
yes, this one
is already displayed on my computer... I read it |
| 19:00.04 |
poolio |
brlcad: does
brl-cad have some sort of pseudo-random number generator
implemented or can i use rand()? |
| 19:00.29 |
brlcad |
it does, and
you should use it (as it's considerably faster and repeatable)
;) |
| 19:04.05 |
brlcad |
poolio: see
include/bn.h .. there's even a simple snippet on how to use
them |
| 19:04.38 |
brlcad |
there's no
problem using rand() either, but you should definitely set and
record the seed in your results so that runs can be entirely
repeated |
| 19:04.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: I saw
the table of random numbers, but I think I want something more
random than that? |
| 19:05.08 |
poolio |
Oh alright,
for testing purposes |
| 19:05.32 |
brlcad |
poolio:
there's a lot of math behind the table of random numbers, in terms
of variability, random sampling, mathematical distribution,
etc |
| 19:06.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
you would suggest just using them? |
| 19:06.38 |
brlcad |
whatever
floats your boat :) |
| 19:06.49 |
poolio |
alrighty |
| 19:07.00 |
poolio |
thanks for
answering all my questions, I've been struggling a bit the past two
days :P |
| 19:07.47 |
brlcad |
bn's random
numbers will be considerably faster than using rand(), not that
that probably matters for this, but the sample distribution should
also likely be more "well-behaved" |
| 19:08.00 |
poolio |
alright
cool |
| 19:08.11 |
brlcad |
to the point
that it shouldn't matter -- you're not likely to get artifacts at
all from either |
| 19:45.05 |
IriX64 |
mother was
right, if you can't follow the conversation stay out of it
:) |
| 19:49.33 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/453cAr18.html
<---- it took me an hour to fake this, did i get it right
;) |
| 20:03.10 |
elite01 |
IriX64, fake
it? why not ./configure >something? |
| 20:04.04 |
IriX64 |
real
configure ran it's making now |
| 20:05.37 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/b4oQC331.html
<---- see, I figure if i'm going to be laffed at for my choice
of system i may as well play the part :) |
| 20:06.23 |
brlcad |
those are
random, useless pastebins |
| 20:06.31 |
IriX64 |
not
really |
| 20:06.39 |
brlcad |
entirely --
what is the point?? |
| 20:06.53 |
IriX64 |
trying to
lighten the mood |
| 20:07.03 |
brlcad |
the mood is
light |
| 20:07.14 |
elite01 |
thanks to
IriX64 :) |
| 20:07.19 |
IriX64 |
then i'll
retire to my corner of the room now :) |
| 20:07.20 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 20:07.54 |
poolio |
I'm already
floating away... |
| 20:08.09 |
IriX64 |
drop a byte
as an anchor poolio |
| 20:08.16 |
brlcad |
it's just
annoying to click on a link that conveys nothing of value.. not a
build failure that needs fixing, not even a successful compilation
of something that was hard to do (i.e. some sort of
acheivement) |
| 20:08.32 |
brlcad |
it's just ..
"noise" :) |
| 20:08.42 |
IriX64 |
ill preface
such from now on a s this is a useless paste |
| 20:09.09 |
poolio |
I think I've
lost it. I just spent like an hour debugging code that wasn't
broken. I had a character at the beginning of my header
file....GRRRR |
| 20:09.11 |
brlcad |
no, that's
not the point -- if you know it's useless, then don't paste
it |
| 20:09.32 |
IriX64 |
sigh... must
i adhere to that |
| 20:09.42 |
brlcad |
we've had
this talk before, I really do not want to have it again |
| 20:09.54 |
IriX64 |
ill adhere to
it then |
| 20:10.06 |
brlcad |
thank
you |
| 20:10.16 |
IriX64 |
blog shots
allowed? |
| 20:10.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there some sort of internal structure that stores all of a given
shape's properties? |
| 20:11.13 |
brlcad |
IriX64: in
moderation when they actually share something ..
_interesting_ |
| 20:11.23 |
IriX64 |
sure..thanks |
| 20:11.29 |
brlcad |
poolio: for
each primitive, yes |
| 20:12.15 |
brlcad |
there's a
struct arb_internal for example |
| 20:12.15 |
brlcad |
poolio: most
of them are in rtgeom.h though raytrace.h has a few too |
| 20:12.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: but
if I want some sort of universal shape container... that's not in
existence? |
| 20:12.47 |
brlcad |
er, what do
you mean? |
| 20:13.16 |
brlcad |
there are
serialized an unserialized forms if that's what you
mean |
| 20:13.17 |
poolio |
Like if I
want a standard node in a tree, where that node represents the
shape and the tree is the combination, is there a way to do that?
(isn't it done this way internally?) |
| 20:13.31 |
poolio |
err not
really |
| 20:13.54 |
poolio |
I'll try to
figure it out in my brain tomorrow when I work with
trees |
| 20:14.22 |
brlcad |
if I
understand you correctly, rt_db_internal might be what you're
looking for |
| 20:14.37 |
poolio |
alright
thanks |
| 20:39.37 |
brlcad |
alternatively, you could deal with struct
directory pointers, though that entirely encapsulates the
geometry |
| 20:39.51 |
brlcad |
at that
level, they are just generic named objects |
| 20:41.05 |
brlcad |
when you get
a handle on a directory pointer (e.g. from db_lookup()), you can
get that rt_db_internal via rt_db_get_internal() |
| 20:44.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: the
issue is say "mutating" an object |
| 20:44.26 |
poolio |
I want a sort
of wrapper, but I might have to do it like if(this_shape){modify
these parameters...} |
| 20:49.09 |
brlcad |
well, the
absolute "generic" container is the serialized form (which is part
of what gets written to disk) |
| 20:49.36 |
poolio |
hmm yeah, i'm
not sure that's what I want to deal with though |
| 20:49.44 |
poolio |
I guess it's
probably better to just specialize the mutations for each
shape |
| 20:50.01 |
brlcad |
each
primitive has a export5 routine (e.g. rt_ell_export5()) that takes
the rt_db_internal and fills in a bu_external (which is just a
generic binary data array |
| 20:51.02 |
brlcad |
you could
actually work with those bu_external's an an entirely generic
fashion -- all the data in the idb_ptr is the parameters to the
primitive without any names or types associated |
| 20:51.31 |
poolio |
so I could
just mutate the binary data? |
| 20:51.40 |
brlcad |
so you could
tweak actual values/bits there, just that you can conceivably make
invalid geometry too -- boxes with twisted faces, inside out
shapes, etc |
| 20:51.45 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
could |
| 20:52.03 |
poolio |
Well the
thing is I don't want to corrupt the data like that |
| 20:52.17 |
poolio |
I also don't
want to do just straight mutation: replacing values with randomly
generated ones |
| 20:52.26 |
brlcad |
it would be
interesting to see how well the GA adjusted (if it even would) to
invalid mutations |
| 20:52.26 |
poolio |
I'm thinking
also to have mutations that just add/subtract to the current
ones |
| 20:52.34 |
brlcad |
since the
fitness would jump to zero |
| 20:52.40 |
poolio |
brlcad: well
would the raytracer be able to work with it? |
| 20:52.51 |
poolio |
I feel like
it'd just crash |
| 20:52.51 |
brlcad |
depends on
case |
| 20:53.11 |
brlcad |
wouldn't
likely crash, would just likely drop that object saying it's not
valid |
| 20:53.21 |
brlcad |
as if you had
no object |
| 20:53.34 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 20:53.44 |
brlcad |
at worst,
could abort rt during prep (or perhaps crash.. hard to say without
testing) |
| 20:53.46 |
poolio |
and if I did
good error checking then it would probalby just drop the shape and
randomly create a new individual |
| 20:54.08 |
poolio |
well
something to think about, I'll try to make the GA framework
flexible to allow for all sorts of testing and stuff in the
upcoming weeks |
| 20:54.16 |
brlcad |
the
primitives are supposed to check themselves during prep .. so if it
made something invalid, it's up to their prep routine to
stop |
| 20:54.24 |
poolio |
That's what's
bugging me now...how to organize and lay things out and represent
things. I'm trying to make it easier for myself in the
future |
| 20:54.45 |
brlcad |
probably
easiest to just have a hook for each primitive shape you
support |
| 20:55.06 |
brlcad |
you have to
know about them anyways since you're supporting only a subset from
the start |
| 20:55.46 |
brlcad |
maybe just
keep each one contained in its own file to make it obvious how to
add evolutionary support for new primitives |
| 20:56.44 |
brlcad |
longer term
solution would be a routine in librt that did the object-type
manipulation for you somehow |
| 20:58.35 |
poolio |
that'd be
handy. Maybe an array of "parameters" that pointed into the
struct |
| 20:58.39 |
poolio |
actually I
could implement that for my shapes |
| 20:58.45 |
poolio |
make the
front-end of my app a bit prettier |
| 21:05.10 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob, why
would i get an editor faceplate when starting mged from an xterm
prompt, but not when starting from an ntvdm? |
| 21:05.33 |
IriX64 |
framebuffer
comes up tho |
| 21:07.06 |
brlcad |
poolio: one
other solution could be to use the serialized mged tcl form for
each primitive, which is just a text string -- but then you still
have the issue of what is valid and what is not, though it's
obvious what the numbers are for the most part |
| 21:08.00 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
think it makes more sense to just write hooks for each shape, but
that is an interesting idea |
| 21:09.46 |
brlcad |
i
agree |
| 21:09.50 |
brlcad |
just throwing
it out there |
| 21:10.49 |
brlcad |
the only real
way to encapsulate the behavior would be to add the ability to
"randomly mutate" to each primitive, similar to how each primitive
defines their existing behaviors |
| 21:11.04 |
brlcad |
then you
could just call a generic mutate() hook func |
| 21:12.43 |
poolio |
Yeah but teh
thing is what I want to mutate and how I want it to mutate is going
to change / i would like it to be app-controlled |
| 21:12.57 |
poolio |
so if you
want "Mutate" to mean replace certain values or if you want
"mutate" to mean modify them X amount... |
| 21:16.39 |
brlcad |
yup, becomes
very specific |
| 21:16.45 |
brlcad |
and tied to
the GA |
| 21:17.02 |
brlcad |
and has very
little to do with the geometry other than maybe asking "is this
valid" |
| 21:17.14 |
poolio |
yeah oh
well |
| 21:17.28 |
poolio |
I'm trying to
keep the code modularized though so if this a) works and b) is
used, it just might be maintainable :) |
| 21:19.54 |
brlcad |
a discussion
came up in a meeting earlier today about how useful it would be to
be able to go from a polygonal model to a csg or brep/nurbs model
;) |
| 21:20.04 |
poolio |
wooot. |
| 21:20.05 |
brlcad |
even for
simple shapes |
| 21:20.07 |
poolio |
and what'd
you say? |
| 21:20.22 |
brlcad |
only that
you'd have it done next week |
| 21:20.44 |
poolio |
... |
| 21:20.45 |
poolio |
bastard. |
| 21:21.01 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
also have to do that huge sf86....I'm gonna die. |
| 21:21.01 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:21.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Increase root finding
iterations and added edge miss tolerance |
| 21:21.34 |
poolio |
how simple
shapes are you talking? Single primitives or just multiple in a
union or ...? |
| 21:22.10 |
brlcad |
simple parts
like a gear head or a piston, or a door knob, etc .. so not single
primitives, but not more than a handful if simplified |
| 21:22.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Change the number of
iterations for debugging purposes... |
| 21:22.48 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yeah
I think the GA if working is a great way to create "rough models"
of say polygonal models |
| 21:22.55 |
poolio |
I don't think
it's good for finding the optimal solution |
| 21:23.03 |
poolio |
but I think
it's very good at finding near-optimal solutions |
| 21:23.15 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
brlcad album , first picture (7.10.1 with X also have it with
ogl) |
| 21:23.50 |
IriX64 |
but fbserv
won't exec from mged, does fine from the dos prompt
tho. |
| 21:24.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix yet another
(hopefully final) knot-related bug |
| 21:25.35 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: fix a bug in IGES
parsing where an empty field should yield a default numerical
value |
| 21:26.48 |
IriX64 |
haha rotated
it to 45 degrees on the x y z axis drew it fine |
| 21:27.01 |
IriX64 |
shall i post
it |
| 21:27.09 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: I
think I don't know what ntvdm is... |
| 21:27.23 |
IriX64 |
ahh ok
thanks |
| 21:27.31 |
yukonbob |
so, what is
it? |
| 21:27.38 |
IriX64 |
oh man a dos
box |
| 21:27.42 |
IriX64 |
on
windows |
| 21:28.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there a commercial solution to what I'm working on? I mean I'd be
surprised if someone hadn't done it before |
| 21:28.25 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: like
"cmd.exe"? |
| 21:28.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: start work on jungle gym
algo, implemented in brep_edge_check method (try to prevent acne
due to tracing through a crack in the manifold) |
| 21:28.46 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob yes
exactly the C:\ prompt |
| 21:29.18 |
IriX64 |
may have it
fixed |
| 21:29.38 |
IriX64 |
needs the
DISPLAY variable thanks to you you lout :) |
| 21:29.57 |
yukonbob |
the best way
to fix it, and improve a few other things is to install a BSD...
;) |
| 21:30.14 |
IriX64 |
free or
commercial :) |
| 21:30.18 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: debug divergent
root finder for pullback curves (investigate alternate
methodology?) |
| 21:30.53 |
brlcad |
~ntvdm is a
Virtual DOS machine, the name of technology developed by Microsoft
that allows older 16-bit MSDOS programs to run in a virtual machine
on newer hardware and operating systems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTVDM
for details |
| 21:30.54 |
ibot |
brlcad:
okay |
| 21:31.29 |
brlcad |
cmd.exe isn't
the same as ntvdm |
| 21:31.33 |
yukonbob |
?sure
everything about brlcad is at least 32-bit. |
| 21:31.35 |
yukonbob |
*surely |
| 21:31.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: does
jlowenz work withyou? |
| 21:31.55 |
IriX64 |
i'm trying to
keep from going to hell brlcad :) |
| 21:33.09 |
IriX64 |
ok the
cmd.exe prompt *not the command.com prompt altho i can run that
prompt too on this system :) |
| 21:36.19 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:37.19 |
IriX64 |
ok the 45
degree shot is first pix on that albumn now |
| 22:10.48 |
IriX64 |
hah up.bat
and up it comes |
| 22:12.31 |
IriX64 |
what was i
doing up ar 5:22am anyway :) |
| 22:13.55 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob: i
should have responded that's ok, i don't know what edlin is
:P |
| 22:20.05 |
IriX64 |
things
useless, it cant find any of the programs in bin, even when you cd
to bin |
| 22:20.26 |
IriX64 |
this one i'm
reporting, you need documentation? |
| 22:22.24 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/WR5l8A24.html |
| 22:38.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:41.15 |
poolio |
IriX64: have
you tried running them with their paths? like
./filename.exe |
| 23:41.19 |
poolio |
(just a
thought, I don't run windows) |
| 23:44.37 |
IriX64 |
man it's
mged's exec command oh i see just a sec |
| 23:45.28 |
IriX64 |
that
works |
| 23:45.39 |
IriX64 |
exec
./asc2g |
| 23:46.19 |
IriX64 |
but
without=no such file or directory |
| 23:48.05 |
IriX64 |
you think
it's a windows thing? soons this install is done ill check
that |
| 23:48.23 |
IriX64 |
cleaned out
the old build sigh |
| 23:49.10 |
IriX64 |
but it worked
previous to last update sat night on the windows side |
| 23:52.43 |
IriX64 |
a jun 20
build works on both side man |
| 23:52.50 |
IriX64 |
something
happened |
| 23:53.39 |
poolio |
well it's
moreso a unix thing |
| 23:53.54 |
poolio |
or you need
to set some sort of PATH variable, I'm not sure how this applies on
windows though |
| 23:54.04 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/meVPax19.html |
| 23:55.10 |
IriX64 |
ill play
around a little will let you know |
| 00:12.26 |
IriX64 |
my apologies,
it works on cygwin side, latest build but not on windows side and
path is set |
| 00:17.23 |
IriX64 |
no worries on
your side this critters mine :) |
| 02:01.28 |
IriX64 |
poolio: it's
the slashes (direction of them) that's getting me i think, i'll
work something out |
| 02:37.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/tcl.c libbu/bu_tcl.c):
Eliminated more direct access of interp->result |
| 02:51.03 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 06:15.25 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:56.11 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 07:58.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove interp->result
check |
| 09:00.22 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 09:19.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): remove the final few
remaining references to interp->result (both comments and
code) |
| 09:55.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have not seen the walk_dispatcher bug in
quite some time, so that just leaves the sketch editor holding up
release |
| 09:57.50 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: say where the log file
is |
| 10:04.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-100-98.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:07.58 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 10:11.04 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: make clean can clean up
after benchmark runs too now. encourage clean instead of clobber so
that the run files are kept. |
| 10:33.15 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-078-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:58.37 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:59.57 |
AchiestDragon |
hi
all |
| 12:01.49 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 14:03.44 |
poolio |
brlcad: late
night commits :) |
| 14:17.54 |
brlcad |
something
like that :) |
| 14:17.59 |
brlcad |
howdy
AchiestDragon |
| 14:18.05 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: funny post |
| 14:18.16 |
AchiestDragon |
:) |
| 14:18.20 |
poolio |
wait brlcad,
did you sleep? :P |
| 14:18.26 |
brlcad |
what's
that? |
| 14:18.50 |
poolio |
eek. |
| 14:19.00 |
poolio |
saw premier
of live free or die hard, highly recommend it |
| 14:19.15 |
brlcad |
was thinking
about that just an hour ago |
| 14:27.56 |
*** join/#brlcad cad63
(n=a05bf84d@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:29.09 |
brlcad |
hello
cad63 |
| 14:29.26 |
AchiestDragon |
thinks i have
some dependancy problems trying archer on linux atm |
| 14:29.40 |
brlcad |
there are
issues unless you've fixed them |
| 14:29.46 |
brlcad |
doesn't load
the blt library iirc |
| 14:29.54 |
*** join/#brlcad TME
(n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov) |
| 14:29.55 |
brlcad |
so you get a
loading window, but nothing after that |
| 14:30.07 |
AchiestDragon |
Error in
startup script: couldn't load file "/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so":
/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so: undefined symbol:
png_read_des |
| 14:30.12 |
AchiestDragon |
yes |
| 14:30.14 |
brlcad |
ah, yeah,
tkimg |
| 14:30.16 |
brlcad |
same
thing |
| 14:30.34 |
AchiestDragon |
have a
problem with mged also |
| 14:31.41 |
TME |
I'm trying to
build a demo app off of rtexample.c and am getting compiler errors
when I try to call rt_builddir |
| 14:31.55 |
TME |
Sorry, I
meant rt_dirbuild |
| 14:32.28 |
TME |
The error is
g++ -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include/brlcad
-I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include -g -O0 -c test.cc |
| 14:32.28 |
TME |
test.cc:31:
error: at this point in file |
| 14:32.28 |
TME |
make: ***
[test.o] Error 1 |
| 14:32.38 |
AchiestDragon |
i have a
matrox g200 quad head graphics card and a matrox g550 dual head
card in this system , set with xinerama so the desktop is spread
over 6 monitors , but the framebuffer doses not update on some of
them |
| 14:33.54 |
brlcad |
TME: does
test.cc have main()? if you're linking, you need to specify the
libraries too |
| 14:33.54 |
AchiestDragon |
but that
maybe this machine as i have some problems with xconfig at startup
and need to work arround them at power on |
| 14:34.43 |
brlcad |
TME: there
should be an example compile line at the top of rtexample.c that
includes the link |
| 14:35.31 |
TME |
brlcad: The
code links, I only get a compile failure when I add the rtip =
rt_dirbuild("test.g", idbuf, sizeof(idbuf)); statement |
| 14:36.19 |
brlcad |
TME: that
makes sense if that's the first external call you're
making |
| 14:36.35 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you're missing the libraries on the compile line |
| 14:36.58 |
brlcad |
e.g. to
compile rtexample, the line needs to be something like: cc
-I/usr/brlcad/include/brlcad -L/usr/brlcad/lib -o rtexample
rtexample.c -lbu -lrt -lm |
| 14:37.20 |
TME |
My make goes
as follows:g++ -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include/brlcad
-I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include -g -O0 -c test.cc |
| 14:37.35 |
TME |
g++ -Xlinker
-rpath . -Xlinker -rpath /data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/lib-o test.x
test.o -L/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/lib -lrt -lbn -lbu -lopenNURBS
-ltcl8.5 -lpthread -ldl -lm |
| 14:37.48 |
brlcad |
ah, that
looks better |
| 14:38.07 |
TME |
the error I
get on compile is |
| 14:38.53 |
TME |
did that go
through |
| 14:39.13 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 14:39.21 |
brlcad |
try
pastebinning it |
| 14:39.25 |
brlcad |
~pastebin |
| 14:39.25 |
ibot |
[pastebin] a
place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try
http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as
well |
| 14:40.39 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: I
think the bot should paste the pastebin description to pastebin.
This way he's flooding the channel ;-) |
| 14:40.52 |
AchiestDragon |
lol |
| 14:41.03 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: does
ibot have a Megahal capability? |
| 14:41.33 |
TME |
pastebin.ca/591963 |
| 14:42.22 |
brlcad |
~megahal |
| 14:42.25 |
ibot |
i heard
megahal is a cheap interface to an enormously huge text file full
of crap or at http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/ |
| 14:42.49 |
brlcad |
TME: aha,
thanks |
| 14:42.54 |
brlcad |
TME: what
version are you on? |
| 14:43.41 |
brlcad |
ah, never
mind -- i see your link line |
| 14:45.55 |
TME |
see http://pastebin.ca/591971 for
example app |
| 14:45.58 |
brlcad |
TME: I
believe that issue is related to prototypes, and should be fixed on
CVS HEAD .. but not in 7.10.0 -- try adding -DUSE_PROTOTYPES to
your CPPFLAGS |
| 14:46.19 |
TME |
I'll give it
a go... |
| 14:46.58 |
TME |
cool, that
worked |
| 14:47.14 |
brlcad |
great |
| 14:47.44 |
TME |
I noticed
that I had to include libopenNURBS on the link line, is that new to
7.10.0? |
| 14:47.45 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
annoying -- still cleaning out the headers so that they don't
assume our own brlcad_config.h is available |
| 14:48.10 |
brlcad |
USE_PROTOTYPES is defined in an autoconf
build usually, but not in other situations |
| 14:48.31 |
TME |
should I move
to CVS HEAD? |
| 14:48.37 |
brlcad |
yes,
openNURBS is new to 7.10.0 -- it's part of an entirely new
NURBS/BREP capability |
| 14:49.19 |
brlcad |
there should
be a brlcad-config script that will tell you the libraries you
need, or at least that were used |
| 14:49.22 |
brlcad |
-L/usr/brlcad/lib -lrt -lbn -lbu -lstdc++
-ltcl -lc -lm -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
-fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof
-g |
| 14:49.25 |
brlcad |
e.g. $
brlcad-config --libs rt |
| 14:50.00 |
TME |
cool, I just
used nm until I found the missing defines |
| 14:50.42 |
brlcad |
TME: it's up
to you regarding cvs head -- things change and are fixed more
rapidly there, but it's also not 100% stable 100% of the time of
course because it's actively changing |
| 14:51.09 |
brlcad |
mishaps like
the jove file missing, however, are quickly fixed |
| 14:51.32 |
TME |
ahhh, you
include libstdc++ on the link-line, that's how you still use
C |
| 14:51.38 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 14:51.51 |
brlcad |
-fexeceptions
is also required if you're using gcc |
| 14:52.07 |
brlcad |
otherwise
you'll end up with internal C++ exception handlers not being
resolved |
| 14:52.26 |
TME |
generally, I
build C++ apps and only use C for numeric kernels so I can use
restrict for better loop unrolling |
| 14:53.13 |
TME |
thanks for
the help, I'll go give this a spin, but I'll probably be back to
get some advice on building brlcad |
| 14:53.20 |
TME |
with NVIDIA
libGL |
| 14:53.27 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's
libraries are vastly C-only, performance oriented, etc -- but
adding nurbs/brep support is such a major effort that it's use was
warranted (and openNURBS is entirely C++) |
| 14:54.01 |
brlcad |
if you do use
CVS HEAD, I'd suggest hanging out on irc .. i'm usually here 24/7,
barring a couple hours here and there |
| 14:54.18 |
brlcad |
can generally
answer these sorts of questions quickly |
| 14:54.24 |
TME |
thanks |
| 14:54.27 |
brlcad |
np |
| 14:57.09 |
brlcad |
erm, I was
around .. save for a few hours in the morning :) |
| 14:57.22 |
poolio |
jah. that's
when i got frustrated and tossed my monitor out the window
though |
| 14:57.43 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 14:58.34 |
brlcad |
hm, I really
should get the new website online if only to set up a knowledge
base |
| 14:58.55 |
brlcad |
for now,
though, it's time for lunch me thinks |
| 14:59.03 |
poolio |
time for my
breakfast. :) |
| 15:21.20 |
Laniakea |
the http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/
link is a deadlink |
| 15:25.18 |
AchiestDragon |
well solid
modeling takes on a diferent form when you fail to have modeling
software to do it
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Tinybug-outside-1.jpg&oldid=604 |
| 15:29.50 |
poolio |
AchiestDragon: cool, making a
spidey? |
| 15:30.10 |
AchiestDragon |
yes |
| 15:33.08 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: nifty |
| 15:33.43 |
brlcad |
Laniakea:
yeah, I noticed.. no idea what hal was anyways other than as it
relates to HAL ;) |
| 15:34.07 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: does
brl-cad already compile on OpenBSD? |
| 15:34.15 |
brlcad |
it should
with no problems |
| 15:34.30 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: does
it need some libraries it didn't need before? |
| 15:51.21 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there a way to encapsulate data from hit() and miss() calls of the
raytracer? I need to give the hit and miss calls certain
parameteres but don't see any way to do that other than making them
global vars? |
| 15:59.37 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 16:03.16 |
brlcad |
Laniakea:
none come to mind, brl-cad provides all of its external
dependencies for situations where they're not installed |
| 16:03.54 |
brlcad |
only things
it doesn't include are the X11, C, and curses/termcap
libraries |
| 16:12.28 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 16:12.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 16:14.30 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:19.27 |
IriX64 |
got it
poolio, works now it was the search of the path, need to set the
unix path first :) |
| 16:20.39 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/kicshw94.html
<----- see |
| 16:22.29 |
IriX64 |
fortunatly
you can mix unix path with windereze path :) |
| 16:26.00 |
IriX64 |
is fbserv
tied only to /dev/X or can you use /dev/ogl ? |
| 16:27.26 |
IriX64 |
x framebuffer
comes up |
| 16:27.40 |
IriX64 |
ogl is
missing tho |
| 16:28.41 |
IriX64 |
let me check
that tutorial :) |
| 16:30.51 |
brlcad |
you can use
any fbserv that shows up when you run fbhelp |
| 16:31.27 |
brlcad |
it needs at
least a port number and usually a framebuffer type like, fbserv 10
/dev/ogl |
| 16:31.37 |
brlcad |
then with rt,
you run rt -F10 |
| 16:33.07 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/vSrhWH43.html
all these are available then nice. |
| 16:38.05 |
IriX64 |
-S 690 is a
bit large your -S 512 is a bit better i think |
| 16:40.28 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
solution to the RT encapsulation issue? The issue is I have a nasty
global that must exist and I'm not sure how that'll do on parallel
systems |
| 16:40.38 |
IriX64 |
building
again heh |
| 16:41.00 |
IriX64 |
poolio:
thanks man |
| 16:41.34 |
poolio |
IriX64: I
didn't do nothing :) |
| 16:55.59 |
IriX64 |
yeah you did
you turned me on to this funky path thing :) |
| 16:56.18 |
IriX64 |
sorry if i
scared the developers |
| 16:57.10 |
IriX64 |
the command
line parsing has probably been stable and frozen for 20 years, and
i go off and accuse, shame on me |
| 17:00.20 |
IriX64 |
something
else wrong tho the ogl frame buffer comes back with 3400 but no
display altho the faceplate comes up on ogl |
| 17:00.34 |
IriX64 |
x buffer is
fine |
| 17:01.43 |
IriX64 |
rt works
cute |
| 17:03.07 |
IriX64 |
haha my
transplanted ls works, how sweet is that :) |
| 17:09.33 |
IriX64 |
the irix32
blog man, first pix in the brlcad albumn |
| 17:10.46 |
IriX64 |
the process
running in the command window is a little bat file to straighten
out the path thing and startup mged :) |
| 17:12.25 |
IriX64 |
exec tclsh
does something but i know squat about tcl |
| 17:12.45 |
brlcad |
throttle it
back IriX64 |
| 17:12.52 |
IriX64 |
sure
sorry |
| 17:12.53 |
brlcad |
poolio: what
encapsulation issue? |
| 17:16.41 |
brlcad |
poolio: as
for having a global that "must exist", that's rarely the case but
also not the end of the world ;) |
| 17:30.16 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
when you raytrace something and call rt_shootray(), it then calls
two user-defined methods one for if there is a hit, and for if
there is a miss. I do my ray comparison as they come in so i need
the hit/miss functions to have access to the stored
"source" |
| 17:31.03 |
poolio |
But don't see
a way to transmit a pointer to that data, and I can't return the
data I need from the hit/miss functions because they have to return
an int and my data is a fastf_t (also: is fastf_t a float)
? |
| 17:32.01 |
brlcad |
fastf_t
should be a double on most systems, though it can be set to a float
or other type |
| 17:32.10 |
poolio |
oh
alright |
| 17:35.35 |
brlcad |
poolio: you
do have a means to pass around data.. |
| 17:35.44 |
brlcad |
that's the
purpose of the application structure |
| 17:35.53 |
brlcad |
which is the
param to the callbacks |
| 17:36.36 |
brlcad |
the
application structure has fields for numbers, pointers, vectors,
etc .. and it has custom stuff for tracking segment lists (since
that's the most common need/use) |
| 17:36.43 |
brlcad |
see
include/raytace.h |
| 17:37.01 |
poolio |
oh I didn't
see a pointer that I could use |
| 17:37.07 |
poolio |
ah
genptr_t |
| 17:37.09 |
poolio |
d'oh |
| 17:37.31 |
poolio |
Yeah I was
using a_user but guess i missed a_uptr |
| 17:39.23 |
brlcad |
yeah,
genptr_t is a void* |
| 17:39.29 |
brlcad |
on most
platforms at least |
| 17:41.33 |
poolio |
alright
hurray, thanks. |
| 17:41.46 |
poolio |
I was
probably skimming the structs looking fora n asterisk and
... |
| 17:43.08 |
IriX64 |
is bwish a
must have brlcad? |
| 17:43.32 |
brlcad |
IriX64: for a
public distribution, yes -- for personal use, no |
| 17:43.40 |
IriX64 |
thankyou |
| 17:43.45 |
brlcad |
only a few
tools use bwish, and I don't think you've discovered them yet
:) |
| 17:43.53 |
IriX64 |
true
:) |
| 17:47.14 |
IriX64 |
public
distribution.... if i tell anybody outside this channel i've got a
mostly working brlcad for windows 2000 and up they'll laff me off
the planet :) |
| 17:48.31 |
brlcad |
plus, if you
can't get bwish to build, then mged shouldn't build |
| 17:48.40 |
brlcad |
dependency-wise, they're almost
identical |
| 17:48.54 |
IriX64 |
not that it
doesn't build issues at runtime |
| 17:49.52 |
IriX64 |
take it bwish
is a superset of wish? |
| 17:53.12 |
brlcad |
sort of,
sure |
| 17:53.23 |
IriX64 |
i see the
& operator is required for anything you exec |
| 17:53.28 |
brlcad |
wish with the
brl-cad libraries preloaded |
| 17:53.38 |
IriX64 |
thankyou |
| 17:54.34 |
IriX64 |
i have the
btclsh loaded how do i get a help or usage screen |
| 17:55.55 |
brlcad |
it's a tcl
shell -- there's no interactive help |
| 17:56.24 |
IriX64 |
thankyou
seems to work, complains about invalid commands anyway
:) |
| 17:56.35 |
brlcad |
if it
complains, then it's probably not right :) |
| 17:56.46 |
IriX64 |
i'll arrest
it |
| 17:56.52 |
brlcad |
oh, unless
you mean when you give it invalid commands |
| 17:57.04 |
brlcad |
if it writes
messages when you just start it though, then something's probably
not right |
| 17:57.07 |
IriX64 |
true i know
not what is valid |
| 17:57.20 |
IriX64 |
no messages
just a pid |
| 17:57.50 |
IriX64 |
and prompt
says mged> is that accurate? |
| 17:58.24 |
brlcad |
not unless
you ran mged |
| 17:58.42 |
IriX64 |
i did then
exec btclsh & |
| 17:58.55 |
brlcad |
oh, you mean
from within mged?? |
| 17:59.00 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 17:59.02 |
brlcad |
that won't
work |
| 17:59.09 |
IriX64 |
it does
:) |
| 17:59.15 |
poolio |
sph(i35.s):
zero length A(0.000199928), B(0.000199928), or C(0.000199928)
vector |
| 17:59.19 |
brlcad |
at least it
won't do anything it's supposed to |
| 17:59.25 |
poolio |
that's not
zero! |
| 17:59.31 |
brlcad |
you're trying
to run an interpreter in an interpreter |
| 17:59.37 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 17:59.48 |
brlcad |
you
backgrounded it, so it you don't get the error, but you also can't
talk to it |
| 17:59.51 |
brlcad |
which is
useless |
| 18:00.02 |
IriX64 |
but it talks
back :) |
| 18:00.07 |
IriX64 |
along with
mged |
| 18:00.22 |
brlcad |
it just
"writes" back .. you just made a process you can't communicate
with |
| 18:00.32 |
brlcad |
you can't
even directly kill it |
| 18:00.39 |
IriX64 |
so why does
it tell me invalid command |
| 18:00.54 |
brlcad |
huh? why does
what tell you invalid command? |
| 18:01.00 |
IriX64 |
btclsh |
| 18:01.09 |
brlcad |
you're not in
btclsh! |
| 18:01.14 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 18:03.36 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/LIUt1z76.html
<--- i mean i know i'm slow but i'm not blind yet. |
| 18:06.17 |
IriX64 |
ctrl-c gets
me out |
| 18:15.56 |
brlcad |
help only
works on mged commands, btclsh is not an mged command so no
help |
| 18:16.36 |
brlcad |
doing "exec
btclsh &" is entirely useless .. you can't talk to that btclsh
instance |
| 18:16.54 |
brlcad |
it will print
its output is all |
| 18:16.57 |
brlcad |
which is a
prompt |
| 18:17.02 |
brlcad |
you can't
type on that prompt though |
| 18:17.14 |
brlcad |
which is what
I said earlier -- it writes back, but you can't talk to
it |
| 18:18.54 |
brlcad |
poolio: it
should probably say "near zero length" -- it's below the current
computation tolerance |
| 18:19.24 |
brlcad |
a sphere with
a 0.01mm radius |
| 18:19.58 |
poolio |
brlcad: Well
it completely thrases the program and tries to dump a stack trace
and always fails and eats CPU until I kill it |
| 18:20.13 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
guess I'll do my own error checking on it so that doesn't
happen |
| 18:20.48 |
brlcad |
hmm, sounds
like something else is wrong elsewhere |
| 18:21.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: No,
rand() just came up with a really low number |
| 18:21.14 |
poolio |
and it keeps
coming up with it cause I'm using the same seed and
bn_random |
| 18:21.27 |
poolio |
but there are
other bugs i'm working on ... |
| 18:21.41 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 18:21.57 |
brlcad |
bn_random is
going to give you numbers normalized between 0 -> 1 |
| 18:22.11 |
brlcad |
those
shouldn't be primitive parameters :) |
| 18:22.16 |
poolio |
Yes I know,
and I multiply it by some scalar, but if that number is close to
zero... |
| 18:22.33 |
poolio |
brlcad: They
aren't, I guess I'll set some minimum and have MIN + SCALE *
rand |
| 18:22.42 |
brlcad |
sure, there's
an absolute minimum size for each primitive |
| 18:22.58 |
brlcad |
just take the
case of zero even .. if it hits zero you can have lots of
badness |
| 18:23.08 |
poolio |
yeah... |
| 18:24.25 |
poolio |
There's
something messed up with my raytrace comparison ... and I was so
sure it was bulletproof... |
| 18:24.41 |
poolio |
4: r:1.30367
f:96 |
| 18:24.41 |
poolio |
5: r:6.69046
f:96 |
| 18:24.53 |
poolio |
fitness
should be proportional to radius ergggh |
| 18:26.06 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 18:26.48 |
poolio |
Everything
was working and then when I cleaned up the code and added random
generation. BOOM. I think I need to do a bit more design before I
start coding in the future |
| 18:29.12 |
IriX64 |
screwed up
the mug again but it did save the database, I'm happy
:) |
| 18:46.12 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
the brlcad albumn first 3 pix, all done entirely on the windows
side of the box |
| 19:01.16 |
IriX64 |
you know you
should put some recent pictures up on your web page, yours are so
interesting |
| 19:02.25 |
brlcad |
that takes a
lot of effort |
| 19:02.47 |
IriX64 |
really? not
screen shot utility for unix? |
| 19:04.09 |
IriX64 |
give them to
me, i'll send back a .png for you :) |
| 19:04.40 |
brlcad |
the images
are easy |
| 19:04.44 |
brlcad |
i have
hundreds of images |
| 19:05.01 |
brlcad |
getting
approval to release them takes a lot of effort |
| 19:05.16 |
IriX64 |
ok now i
understand |
| 19:05.48 |
IriX64 |
too many
people can download them is that it? |
| 19:07.56 |
IriX64 |
thanks for
stryker it just became my wallpaper :) |
| 19:09.05 |
poolio |
brlcad: off
topic: any suggestions for a keyboard? My current one is dying and
the keys are sticking so I'm off to buy one later today
:) |
| 19:09.44 |
archivist |
remove crumbs
from kb |
| 19:10.06 |
poolio |
archivist:
keyboard is beyond repair, i've taken the kesy off and cleaned and
put back, i think the springs are dying |
| 19:10.12 |
archivist |
but the
remote logitech has lasted well for me |
| 19:10.22 |
poolio |
and i dont
like using my laptop keyboard when it's plugged into my
monitor |
| 19:10.29 |
poolio |
yeah i'm
debating whether to try out an ergonomic one |
| 19:12.16 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
stuff albumn pix of my stryker desktop |
| 19:25.53 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:29.38 |
IriX64 |
wherever
clock is, i'm sorry if i made him popular, but he gave his ok
;) |
| 19:29.55 |
brlcad |
poolio: i'm a
bit partial to the mac pro keyboard (and it works with linux,
windows, etc) |
| 19:30.05 |
brlcad |
great tactile
response |
| 19:30.47 |
brlcad |
Das Keyboard
II is fun too |
| 19:38.22 |
IriX64 |
man, how many
framebuffers can i use :) |
| 19:40.24 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah
I don't really like the mac pro keyboards, the keys are too close
together for me or something |
| 19:41.30 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 19:57.47 |
IriX64 |
if you honor
-DSOLARIS, your solaris specific code passes muster |
| 20:00.43 |
brlcad |
that define
doesn't do anything |
| 20:01.00 |
IriX64 |
no support
behind it? |
| 20:01.06 |
IriX64 |
i didnt
check |
| 20:01.09 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
mean anything |
| 20:01.15 |
brlcad |
might as well
do -DIrix64 |
| 20:01.27 |
brlcad |
you can't
just make up names :) |
| 20:01.42 |
brlcad |
well you can,
but that doesn't mean they'll do anything at all |
| 20:01.45 |
poolio |
-DDEBUG
=P |
| 20:01.53 |
IriX64 |
understood. |
| 20:02.48 |
brlcad |
i imagine you
saw -DBSD and thought that meant something .. if you did, it
doesn't mean what you think it means |
| 20:03.07 |
IriX64 |
thanks man i
learn here |
| 20:04.17 |
IriX64 |
well i have
an exact same build then as with -DBSD right as well as without -D
anything at all, i've learned |
| 20:04.51 |
brlcad |
because bsd
refers to calling api semantics |
| 20:05.06 |
brlcad |
bsd vs sysv
style, which most platforms support both these days |
| 20:05.27 |
brlcad |
aside from
just most of the code that used BSD now no longer uses
it |
| 20:06.29 |
IriX64 |
think i'll
throw a -DSYSV5 in there to prove that to myself, shouldn't crash
right |
| 20:06.45 |
brlcad |
you're still
making up symbols :P |
| 20:06.50 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 20:06.59 |
brlcad |
that won't do
jack |
| 20:07.15 |
IriX64 |
looks
pretty |
| 20:10.51 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.41 |
IriX64 |
brlcad this
silly thing is insisting i have sgigl again wasn't anything i
did |
| 20:13.44 |
IriX64 |
i just
comment out the define in brlcad_config.h for now is seems to be
sufficient |
| 20:55.33 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
1st 2 pictures are rtedge in action |
| 21:01.48 |
IriX64 |
is there no
dwg to g tool? |
| 21:27.03 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/rEyujP49.html
<--- you were right, it's gotten this far with no effect
:) |
| 21:30.28 |
IriX64 |
problem i
have now is how to display a stackdump |
| 21:31.26 |
IriX64 |
hmmm mc for
windows? |
| 21:32.32 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
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| 22:01.40 |
IriX64 |
trying to
rename the root folder of cygwin while i'm doing a copy from a
folder in there, sheeesh :) |
| 22:03.25 |
IriX64 |
btw mc
crossed (I'm happy as a lark, people will be able to view
stackdumps and whatnot) |
| 22:04.26 |
IriX64 |
not that
brlcad ever produces stackdumps *ahem :) |
| 22:06.39 |
IriX64 |
gotta reboot
for this, l8r |
| 22:11.55 |
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| 22:50.19 |
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| 22:55.44 |
IriX64 |
mc is out
(i'm not going to delve into the code to make it work) relies too
heavily on the *nix directory structure |
| 22:56.18 |
IriX64 |
ill have them
e-mail stack dumps |
| 23:05.59 |
IriX64 |
without the
cygwin folder i successfully brought up the faceplate and a
framebuffer i'm happy |
| 23:06.20 |
IriX64 |
using Xwin32
no cygwin-x |
| 23:16.55 |
IriX64 |
geometry
works rt works what else can i try that would make this thing work
for you? |
| 23:20.19 |
IriX64 |
ls is looking
for tmp sigh |
| 23:21.46 |
IriX64 |
no it's not
it's gone again sigh gotta stop moving things around, cy'all
l8r |
| 00:04.47 |
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| 00:51.39 |
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| 01:57.02 |
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| 02:55.03 |
poolio |
evening
coding again :) |
| 03:15.04 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 03:15.39 |
poolio |
haha this
happens almost every night. I announce I'm coding and you say woot.
woot :) |
| 03:16.42 |
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| 03:57.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.h population.c
population.h beset.c fitness.c): implemented basic GA
framework |
| 03:58.14 |
poolio |
and gnite :)
I'll try to make it actually functional in the morning...right now
the fitness function is FUBAR even though it worked fine
before |
| 03:58.50 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 03:58.55 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 03:59.10 |
brlcad |
progress is
progress |
| 03:59.14 |
poolio |
brlcad: you
can test it if you want, it's not functional but ... it's moving
along |
| 03:59.31 |
brlcad |
I'm waiting
for just a little more before I start poking ;) |
| 04:00.34 |
poolio |
yeah, I'd
like to have pretty much a full one-shape implementation. (has to
figure out which primitive it is and the orientation) |
| 04:00.59 |
poolio |
Hopefully
also switch to trees and geting some sort of wrapper to the shapes
instead of my current "assume it's a sphere" approach |
| 04:03.11 |
brlcad |
just remember
that CSG trees have two distinct node types -- leaf nodes are
always primitives, other nodes are
operators/combinations |
| 04:03.33 |
poolio |
I think I'm
going to limit it to operators for now, but yeah I got
that |
| 04:03.44 |
poolio |
(no
combinations) |
| 04:03.52 |
brlcad |
combinations
are operators in a way |
| 04:04.05 |
brlcad |
at least
they're just a container for the operation |
| 04:04.34 |
poolio |
yeah but if I
have it in a CSG tree, aren't all internal combinations essentially
useless? |
| 04:04.58 |
poolio |
well useful
for say organization, but irrelevant for creating different
candidates |
| 04:06.22 |
brlcad |
er, the
difference is mostly semantic |
| 04:06.31 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 04:06.55 |
brlcad |
a
"combination" is a csg operation .. so if you have a CSG "tree"
then you have combinations |
| 04:06.57 |
poolio |
brlcad: also
on a somewhat different point, is it ok that my proress is so slow?
I'm having a lot of problems with segfaults / code that isn't
functioning how I intended... |
| 04:07.06 |
brlcad |
your progress
is fine |
| 04:07.25 |
brlcad |
exactly what
I expected so far .. :) |
| 04:07.29 |
poolio |
alright. I'm
kind of in a rut getting this initial stuff working, but I think
progress should be picking up |
| 04:07.35 |
brlcad |
you've got
along ways ahead still |
| 04:07.37 |
poolio |
Well i'm
upset I wasn't able to exceed your expectations |
| 04:08.06 |
brlcad |
I'm
realistic, it's a pretty hefty task just to implement, much less
make functional |
| 04:08.14 |
brlcad |
s/less/more/ |
| 04:08.44 |
poolio |
Well, the
amount of code and what it does isn't very impressive. My main
issue has been understanding interacting with the established
brl-cad routines and also fixing my earlier mistakes |
| 04:09.16 |
brlcad |
dude, don't
be so hard on yourself -- you're making great progress
:) |
| 04:09.40 |
poolio |
eh, it makes
me get more done :) |
| 04:10.10 |
poolio |
I've also
never done such a large scale project and commited this much time,
so it's quite the experience |
| 04:10.14 |
poolio |
and I
appreciate the freedom you're giving me |
| 04:11.18 |
brlcad |
having
liberty to "do your thing" is important to just about every
developer, even me |
| 04:12.04 |
brlcad |
that's
where/why the talks we've already had to date are so
important |
| 04:12.47 |
brlcad |
we're at
least coinciding fully on the big picture, aware of the goals,
scope, and intent .. efforts are visible, progress is evident, life
is good ;) |
| 04:13.09 |
poolio |
good
good. |
| 04:14.39 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 04:14.39 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
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| 04:15.08 |
brlcad |
and not to
forget that you're helping me with my goals too .. I'm very
appreciative of how hard you're working |
| 04:15.20 |
brlcad |
that will
make it that much easier to expand this into a much bigger program
down the road |
| 04:15.20 |
poolio |
heh, I'm
being compensated, all is well |
| 04:15.34 |
poolio |
Well I'd
guess if you really want to expand this a lot of stuff should be
rewritten from the ground up |
| 04:15.51 |
poolio |
for example,
I think there are tons of optimizations that could be done in the
raytracing area |
| 04:15.54 |
poolio |
well maybe
not tons, but quite a few |
| 04:16.25 |
brlcad |
you'd
probably be surprised, but yes, there is always room for
improvement ;) |
| 04:17.03 |
poolio |
but yeah...
must not forget "premautre optimization is the root of all
evil" |
| 04:18.42 |
brlcad |
also remember
that brl-cad's been doing ray-tracing for .. a very long time --
with the constraints of solid modeling and full-shotline ray
evaluation, there are limits compared to what you can do with, say,
a polygonal visual-only evaluation |
| 04:19.29 |
poolio |
I wasn't
really saying in the raytracer, but in some of the application
structures and pointers and memory being passed around. Although I
don't thi nk that's the bottleneck of the raytracing so
.... |
| 04:19.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
nowhere near the bottleneck |
| 04:19.55 |
poolio |
The fitness
function could for sure be cleaned up. My algorithm for comparing
shot-line rays is pretty slow |
| 04:20.13 |
brlcad |
most of the
time is spent in the primitive evaluation, spatial partitioning
(the accelleration structure), and boolean evaluation |
| 04:20.38 |
brlcad |
those three
generally consume 90% of the time in a given ray-trace |
| 04:20.51 |
poolio |
Yeah, I'm
still worried about how boolean operators will perform on a
GA |
| 04:21.32 |
brlcad |
hard to say
without seeing how hard it is for it to converge on an arbitrary
box |
| 04:21.43 |
poolio |
true. that
should be in the works shortly |
| 04:22.43 |
brlcad |
if it can
actually converge on a box (which is certainly not a given), then
it "should" just be a matter of processing power for it to converge
on any CSG structure |
| 04:22.47 |
poolio |
also I don't
think I want the GA to work and try to find the optimum solution,
just try to get it near-optimal and then use some sort of gradient
descent to try to find the optimal |
| 04:24.10 |
poolio |
brlcad: well
also remember we're adding in another dimension when we add in
boolean operators, well more than one dimension but instead of just
orientation there's also relative scale |
| 04:24.12 |
brlcad |
that's where
simulated annealing is relevant, effectively a means for performing
a gradient descent |
| 04:25.55 |
poolio |
also I think
convergence on CSG trees in general is goign to be highly dependent
on the parameters to the GA, such as the size, mutation rates,
etc...and also what we want to let mutate etc... |
| 04:26.16 |
brlcad |
there are
also a ton of knobs you can tweak on the GA itself .. mutation
levels, population sizes, evaluation criteria, crossover rates,
biased member selections/promotions, etc |
| 04:26.32 |
brlcad |
heh,
yup |
| 04:26.33 |
poolio |
ahaha
:) |
| 04:27.11 |
poolio |
Maybe have
some sort of meta-ga to try to optimize the parameters to the ga on
a simple problem and see how that scales to more coplex
problems |
| 05:28.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-X10.1 pl-X10.c):
pl-X10 is obsolete, removing it |
| 06:00.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: decouple libdm from librt |
| 06:02.35 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libdm actually presently uses
librt, so make sure it's listed as a libs dependency. add the
carbon framework when we're on os x for the new application focus
routine. |
| 06:05.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/dm.h src/libdm/focus.c
src/libdm/Makefile.am): |
| 06:05.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: add
a new dm_applicationfocus() call that will attempt to bring the
invoked |
| 06:05.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
application to the current focus -- this is useful/interesting on
Mac OS X where |
| 06:05.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: X11
applications are not focused by default when invoked via various
means (e.g. |
| 06:05.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
double-clicking or via Terminal). |
| 06:07.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: wow, needs libfb too (e.g., for
X24_interface in dm_obj.c) |
| 06:09.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-X.c): move the focus
code into libdm as a somewhat more generic dm_applicationfocus()
call, even if only/presently implementing support for focusing X11
on Mac OS X. |
| 06:12.10 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 06:12.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: bring application to focus if
needed via dm_applicationfocus() |
| 06:42.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: additional library dependencies
that aren't spelled out .. results in really long/redundant link
lines for some binaries, but should be comprehensive for each
library by itself. |
| 06:43.51 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged and pl-X automatically focus to X11
on Mac OS X |
| 07:50.14 |
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| 10:46.49 |
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| 11:01.32 |
IriX64 |
can someone
do an anonymous ftp to ftp://www3.sympatico.ca and tell me
what you see? |
| 11:02.31 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 11:05.47 |
*** join/#brlcad cad54
(n=5703611a@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:23.15 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
brlcad albumn, an old test build |
| 11:32.12 |
IriX64 |
theres a mite
in the window title :) |
| 12:54.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: need to fix/check these
headers -- should be noinst or in include/ |
| 12:56.46 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/Makefile.am: add the missing
build files, header files, and add the needed libraries so that it
compiles and will distcheck successfully |
| 12:59.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.h fitness.h
population.c population.h): add headers/footers as
needed |
| 13:05.04 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: include BRLCAD and BRLCAD_LIBS
for libbrlcad |
| 13:39.54 |
poolio |
brlcad: ah
oops, thanks :) |
| 13:45.19 |
poolio |
brlcad: did
you see some of my comments "/* EEEEEEEEEK WHAT IF RAND() IS
ZEROOOOOO!?!? */ |
| 13:46.29 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 13:46.54 |
poolio |
uh
oh |
| 13:47.17 |
poolio |
any general
comments/suggestions before I continue further? |
| 14:20.09 |
IriX64 |
poolio:
while(RAND()) { do whatever } |
| 14:20.12 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 14:22.32 |
poolio |
IriX64: errr
not quite, but that's also a bad idea :) |
| 14:22.53 |
poolio |
I believe
BN_RANDOM() is 0,1 exclusive so it'd be an infinite
loop |
| 14:32.43 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:18.38 |
IriX64 |
heh loops are
forever :) |
| 15:20.27 |
poolio |
funroll loops
would be a great name for a cereal :) |
| 15:30.31 |
IriX64 |
loops of fun
:) |
| 15:32.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there an already implemented float comparison macro or something in
brlcad? |
| 15:36.32 |
poolio |
nevermind,
got it |
| 15:46.23 |
*** join/#brlcad TME
(n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov) |
| 15:46.54 |
TME |
hi again,
quick question, is there a fast way to automatically read in all
regions |
| 15:47.13 |
TME |
when I use
rt_gettree() I need to specify one region at a time |
| 15:49.03 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/rand.c): document more
explicitly which random number tables are open intervals and which
are closed -- the smaller table is open, the big table (halfrand)
is closed. |
| 15:49.28 |
poolio |
brlcad: haha,
was that in response to an incorrect comment I made earlier?
:P |
| 15:59.31 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 16:00.00 |
brlcad |
TME: yes,
after you do a dirbuild, you can just iterate over all hashtable
entries |
| 16:00.18 |
brlcad |
poolio: it
wasn't incorrect -- but I did point you to the wrong random number
routine I think |
| 16:00.27 |
poolio |
BN_RANDOM? |
| 16:00.57 |
brlcad |
instead of
BN_RANDOM, you're probably better off using bn_rand0to1() or
bn_rand_half() |
| 16:01.14 |
poolio |
alright,
what's the difference? |
| 16:01.18 |
brlcad |
they pull
from larger random number pools |
| 16:01.24 |
poolio |
oh
alright |
| 16:01.29 |
brlcad |
period of 16k
instead of 4k |
| 16:01.44 |
brlcad |
with the same
performance |
| 16:01.58 |
poolio |
I figured out
why the fitness function wasn't working, well, I see when it doesnt
work but I don't get why. If I input whole numbers as a radius it
works, if the radius is not a whole number it just gives bogus
results |
| 16:02.19 |
brlcad |
not a big
deal since either will work, but should give better
variation |
| 16:02.36 |
poolio |
yeah, for now
it doesn't matter but when it comes to actually testing it
may |
| 16:02.48 |
brlcad |
now the large
tables are closed .. so you will have to account for 0 and 1,
whereas the BN_* routines pull from the smaller tables that are
open |
| 16:03.28 |
poolio |
ok |
| 16:03.41 |
brlcad |
unless you
just leave it at the smaller table |
| 16:03.46 |
brlcad |
which is fine
too :) |
| 16:04.42 |
poolio |
hmm. any
ideas why if a number is say 1.0 it works fine but if it's 1.000001
or something it throws out completely different
results? |
| 16:05.33 |
brlcad |
need more
info |
| 16:05.47 |
brlcad |
too many it's
in there |
| 16:05.55 |
brlcad |
and/or I'm
starving.. back in a few :) |
| 16:05.56 |
poolio |
I can update
CVS but it's probably better if I just keep working on
it |
| 16:05.59 |
poolio |
alright
cya |
| 16:06.12 |
brlcad |
commit early,
commit often ;) |
| 16:06.26 |
poolio |
well, I want
to commit code that compiles :) |
| 16:06.32 |
poolio |
don't want to
blowup the source tree |
| 16:06.42 |
brlcad |
well, yeah,
that'd be good :) |
| 16:15.24 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
think my problem might have to do with the raytracer, although I
highly doubt it... it'd just mean my code wasn't so messed up
:) |
| 16:54.42 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: increase the number of
iterations to converge when tracing, and tighten up the tolerance
on convergence |
| 16:55.41 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:57.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: move ON_Ray to
opennurbs_curve.h, since only curves need to know about rays for
now (CloseTo operation) |
| 17:00.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: fix memory leak
when handling curves |
| 17:08.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix memory leak
on converter deletion |
| 17:10.52 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug acne problems,
sort hits properly; continue to flesh out edge
detection |
| 17:15.59 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: add
CloseTo skeleton |
| 17:17.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: move
ON_Ray here, for use with CloseTo method; CloseTo()
declaration |
| 17:20.06 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp:
implement method to force a value to be within an
interval |
| 17:21.17 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.h: Bound
method prototype |
| 17:37.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: add closest point
estimate method extensions (i.e. returning the subdomain where the
estimate resides) |
| 17:39.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: attempt to fix
closestPoint convergence failure with converting fragment IGES
file |
| 17:50.44 |
poolio |
someone is
hard at work and it isn't me :) |
| 17:58.31 |
TME |
sorry, I
can't find the hash table in struct rt_i |
| 17:58.42 |
TME |
do you mean
**region? |
| 18:01.41 |
TME |
sorry, I
meant **Regions |
| 18:02.10 |
TME |
if so, what
is the size, as I can't see the correct way to use bu_list
here |
| 18:05.18 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
really tempted to say there is a bug with the raytracer
:\ |
| 18:11.18 |
TME |
brlcad:
woops, I think I found it; guess I should actually read comments in
the code ;) |
| 18:29.49 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(i=xz74b7vx@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-79b7a398b9e25ebc) |
| 18:31.20 |
MinuteElectron |
Hi, I am
looking for brlcad (the user on SourceForge). |
| 18:33.14 |
poolio |
Aren't we all
;) |
| 18:36.45 |
MinuteElectron |
Ohm |
| 18:37.19 |
MinuteElectron |
I thought
there was a user called 'brlcad'. |
| 18:37.50 |
poolio |
There is, he
goes by the IRC nick brlcad, and he's pretty active here, just wait
around a bit or ask what it is you want to ask and he'll be back
shortly I'm sure |
| 18:39.34 |
MinuteElectron |
Ahh, okay.
Thanks. |
| 18:39.46 |
poolio |
Anything
anyone else can help you with? |
| 18:41.13 |
MinuteElectron |
Well, it was
to do with the help wanted message regarding the website. I was
interested in helping, I replied to the messgae, but came here in
the hope of more information. |
| 18:41.35 |
MinuteElectron |
It doesn't
matter really, anything important can wait until a reply to the
email |
| 18:42.11 |
*** join/#brlcad SuperTaz
(n=taz@adsl-69-211-3-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 18:42.31 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: Just FYI, everything moves
slowly :) or atleast that's what brlcad has told me |
| 18:43.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Hehe. |
| 18:50.52 |
brlcad |
howdy
MinuteElectron |
| 18:51.15 |
brlcad |
TME: hehe, np
.. if you need a snippet, just lemme know |
| 18:53.36 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
Hi, |
| 18:54.06 |
MinuteElectron |
I will be
offline for a few minutes while I switch to my main PC. |
| 18:54.13 |
MinuteElectron |
brb |
| 18:54.15 |
brlcad |
no problem,
I'll be here ;) |
| 18:55.39 |
poolio |
He's probably
a robot looking for some loot |
| 18:57.26 |
brlcad |
might have a
web dev interested in improving the horrid website |
| 18:57.50 |
poolio |
it is horrid
:) |
| 18:58.42 |
brlcad |
the old one
was even worse, imho |
| 18:59.03 |
poolio |
brlcad: hey,
I just commited a bunch of stuff, and was wondering if you could
have a quick look |
| 18:59.03 |
brlcad |
and I didn't
want to bring it forward, so it was intentionally made very minimal
until someone had time to dedicate towards it |
| 18:59.19 |
poolio |
brlcad: the
issue is when the sphere is not a whole number, it goes berserk,
well, wrong numbers |
| 18:59.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c
population.c fitness.h population.h): single sphere partially
working |
| 18:59.46 |
poolio |
so create a
database with a single sphere with a radius of say 4.0, run the
program, and then try it with something like 4.01 |
| 19:00.12 |
poolio |
run as
./beset database.g 1 1 sphere_name.s junk |
| 19:00.29 |
poolio |
I should
really killoff the extra argument that means nothing and give a
usage message |
| 19:00.32 |
poolio |
oh well
:P |
| 19:00.58 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 19:05.18 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:05.34 |
MinuteElectron |
Hi again,
sorry that took longer than expected. |
| 19:06.23 |
brlcad |
read you
e-mail, glad to hear about the interest so quickly |
| 19:06.36 |
MinuteElectron |
Okay, I will
look now. |
| 19:06.45 |
brlcad |
I presume
you've seen the horrid existing website? :) |
| 19:08.07 |
brlcad |
erm, I said I
read it.. I hadn't replied yet |
| 19:08.27 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, sorry. My
misunderstanding. |
| 19:09.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah, it
isn't that bad if you just want is to give a small bit of info
about the program - but I see you want a lot more than
that. |
| 19:10.34 |
brlcad |
do you know
much about brl-cad or is this the first you've heard of
it? |
| 19:12.53 |
MinuteElectron |
This is
actually the first time I have heard of it, I was just browsing the
Help wanted lists and found this project. I was suprised to find it
as it was so big (most other projects I have worked on before are
fairly small and the owners 'disappeared' after a few weeks) and I
would like to work on something a bit bigger and a bit more
long-term than previous thing I have done. |
| 19:15.01 |
MinuteElectron |
*surprised |
| 19:17.15 |
MinuteElectron |
brb,
reconfiguring IRC setup. |
| 19:17.52 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
chance you could give my issue a look or are you a bit overloaded
right now? |
| 19:18.30 |
brlcad |
yeah,
brl-cad's not going away anytime soon by a long shot -- we get
massive attention if only because the task of writing cad software
can be so complex requiring so much effort, but brl-cad is by far
the farthest along |
| 19:19.10 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:19.25 |
MinuteElectron |
Cool. |
| 19:19.36 |
brlcad |
we also loose
a lot of attention, though, simply because our "face" is ugly --
the website and the main modeler |
| 19:19.44 |
brlcad |
they are both
big priorities though |
| 19:19.49 |
MinuteElectron |
I
see. |
| 19:28.05 |
brlcad |
so, any
thoughts on the task at hand? presume from your message that you
have some layout/design experience too, maybe have a look n' feel
in mind or were you interested in some of the template work done to
date, or .. ? |
| 19:29.42 |
brlcad |
also, have
you ever worked with ldap? would be nice to use that as a means to
tie mediawiki and drupal auth systems together .. though the
mediawiki mods posted to drupal's website would also
work |
| 19:29.46 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:30.09 |
brlcad |
poolio: a bit
overloaded, but I'm compiling it now |
| 19:35.12 |
MinuteElectron |
Well, I am
not the best at designing things (most of the designs for my
websites are basic, yet clean and efficent) you are probably
looking for something a bit more... snazzy so I can give it a good
try. Regarding the technical aspect of things: ldap is quite
possible, it is well supported on the MediaWiki side of things to
so it shouldn't be difficult to integrate. If you like I can
create... |
| 19:35.14 |
MinuteElectron |
...a possible
look and feel of the website and put it on my computer-server and
you can then give the good and bad points and I can expand on that,
or would you rather do this a different way. |
| 19:36.04 |
MinuteElectron |
There is not
much point in me setting up a MediaWiki and drupal combination on
this machine as things are extremely difficult to transfer to and
from SourceForge's web servers. |
| 19:41.47 |
*** part/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:48.58 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: You
busy? |
| 19:58.31 |
brlcad |
quite, gimmie
a sec :) |
| 19:59.38 |
MinuteElectron |
ok,
np |
| 20:07.27 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
guess I'll catch you tomorrow or later tonight, I have to run a few
errands. |
| 20:13.33 |
MinuteElectron |
brb -
restarting |
| 20:19.40 |
*** join/#brlcad cad64
(n=54399582@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:21.19 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:33.14 |
*** part/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 20:33.15 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 20:36.22 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: I completely agree
regarding the transferrability pita |
| 20:36.37 |
MinuteElectron |
Cool. |
| 20:36.38 |
brlcad |
i've set up
drupal three times on sf.net and it's been a pain every
time |
| 20:37.14 |
MinuteElectron |
I
see. |
| 20:37.46 |
brlcad |
the current
plan is to only have an initial/first/front page be on sf.net (so
their stats can do their thing), and keep the rest off on a
different server |
| 20:37.57 |
brlcad |
so we can do
better integration |
| 20:38.03 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, I see.
Have you got a server yet? |
| 20:38.16 |
TME |
brlcad: is
this easy way to do a point query to ray trace with 1 hit and see
what the HEAD partition region is? |
| 20:38.19 |
brlcad |
oh yeah,
we've got a couple servers |
| 20:38.27 |
MinuteElectron |
Neat. |
| 20:38.40 |
brlcad |
my.brlcad.org
is a mirror for example |
| 20:38.46 |
*** join/#brlcad cad39
(n=5439a617@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:39.13 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 20:40.14 |
brlcad |
one server in
the US, another over in Germany |
| 20:40.31 |
brlcad |
so
theoretically, we could set up distributed load balancing if we
*really* wanted to |
| 20:40.47 |
MinuteElectron |
hehe |
| 20:41.02 |
brlcad |
that'd be a
bit overkill at this point though :-) |
| 20:41.09 |
brlcad |
given where
the site currently sits |
| 20:42.56 |
MinuteElectron |
Regarding the
site design, have you decided on what to about it yet? |
| 20:44.50 |
brlcad |
nope, that's
what I meant about having a lot of freedom towards the design if
someone is really interested in tackling the task |
| 20:45.19 |
brlcad |
i can show
you some of the templates that have been done to date if you'd like
to see, but even those were just mock ups with no strong preference
for/against them |
| 20:46.11 |
MinuteElectron |
I have lots
of spare time, I have just got my apache+php+mysql install running
so I could probably take a look at Drupal and create a template
that you can give your opinion on (if that is what you would like
to do). |
| 20:49.10 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: have
a link/short descr for the Docbook task? |
| 20:49.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: turn on edge curve check
(begin implementing CloseTo) |
| 20:50.20 |
yukonbob |
heh --
nevermind |
| 20:50.28 |
SuperTaz |
hey
guys |
| 20:50.47 |
SuperTaz |
anyone know
about problems in configure that leade to getting : "changes in the
environment can compromise the build" |
| 20:51.35 |
SuperTaz |
I'm trying to
build on OS X 10.4.10 |
| 20:51.35 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: begin
implementing generic CloseTo algorithm: step 1 is to sample the
curve and collect closest points to the ray |
| 20:52.21 |
SuperTaz |
(I can type,
really) |
| 20:52.33 |
yukonbob |
SuperTaz:
what's the full msg (ie: with context) |
| 20:52.35 |
SuperTaz |
I googled to
no avail |
| 20:53.06 |
SuperTaz |
long
paste: |
| 20:53.15 |
yukonbob |
not here...
use pasetbin or something |
| 20:53.27 |
yukonbob |
*pastebin |
| 20:53.39 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
running /bin/sh
'/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure'
--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad 'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6'
'--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
-fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions
-Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/ |
| 20:53.39 |
SuperTaz |
usr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared
--enable-symbols
--cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local
--srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:53.39 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
loading cache
../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local |
| 20:53.40 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 20:53.42 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
former value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common
-fexceptions -g |
| 20:53.44 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
current value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions
-g |
| 20:53.46 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: changes in the environment can compromise the
build |
| 20:53.48 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: run `make distclean' and/or `rm
../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local' and start
over |
| 20:53.51 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: /bin/sh
'/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure'
failed for src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:53.52 |
yukonbob |
not here...
use pastebin or something |
| 20:53.54 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
running /bin/sh
'/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure'
--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad 'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6'
'--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
-fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions
-Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/ |
| 20:53.59 |
SuperTaz |
usr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared
--enable-symbols
--cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local
--srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:54.02 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
loading cache
../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local |
| 20:54.06 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 20:54.08 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
former value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common
-fexceptions -g |
| 20:54.09 |
brlcad |
eep, SuperTaz
.. please use pastebin in the future :) |
| 20:54.10 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
current value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions
-g |
| 20:54.12 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: changes in the environment can compromise the
build |
| 20:54.14 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: run `make distclean' and/or `rm
../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local' and start
over |
| 20:54.15 |
brlcad |
~pastebin |
| 20:54.16 |
ibot |
somebody said
pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the
channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as
well |
| 20:54.17 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: /bin/sh
'/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure'
failed for src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:54.20 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
running /bin/sh
'/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure'
--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad 'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6'
'--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
-fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions
-Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/ |
| 20:54.25 |
SuperTaz |
usr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared
--enable-symbols
--cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local
--srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:54.28 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
loading cache
../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local |
| 20:54.30 |
SuperTaz |
configure:
error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 20:54.31 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+b %SuperTaz!*@*] by
brlcad |
| 20:54.38 |
*** mode/#brlcad [-b %SuperTaz!*@*] by
brlcad |
| 20:54.40 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 20:54.42 |
SuperTaz |
argh |
| 20:54.44 |
SuperTaz |
dammit |
| 20:54.46 |
SuperTaz |
stupid
xchat |
| 20:54.48 |
SuperTaz |
putting it on
xbin |
| 20:54.50 |
SuperTaz |
err |
| 20:54.52 |
SuperTaz |
pastebin |
| 20:54.54 |
SuperTaz |
yes |
| 20:54.56 |
SuperTaz |
I intended
to |
| 20:54.58 |
SuperTaz |
*sigh* |
| 20:55.04 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 20:55.10 |
yukonbob |
lol |
| 20:55.48 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
what sort of description? |
| 20:56.05 |
brlcad |
there's not
much to it other than "convert all the docs to docbook"
:) |
| 20:56.44 |
SuperTaz |
http://pastebin.ca/594262 |
| 20:56.45 |
SuperTaz |
there |
| 20:57.47 |
SuperTaz |
brb...clearing my pastebuffer before it
horks again |
| 20:57.55 |
SuperTaz |
back |
| 20:58.19 |
SuperTaz |
anyway,
that's where the configure goes wrong |
| 20:58.53 |
SuperTaz |
happened to
me twice |
| 20:58.59 |
SuperTaz |
I ran make
distclean |
| 20:59.06 |
SuperTaz |
re-ran
configure |
| 20:59.14 |
SuperTaz |
(after
deleting the cache) |
| 20:59.20 |
SuperTaz |
still horked
at the end |
| 21:00.57 |
brlcad |
huh, and this
is on a mac of all machines |
| 21:01.33 |
brlcad |
ooh, BC_RETRY
is set... |
| 21:01.34 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 21:01.39 |
SuperTaz |
err? |
| 21:02.10 |
brlcad |
add
--disable-retry to the configure options |
| 21:02.14 |
SuperTaz |
okay |
| 21:02.25 |
brlcad |
it's trying
extra hard to find something that you don't have so the real error
is obscured |
| 21:02.52 |
TME |
brlcad (or
anyone else): what exactly does setting a_ray_length
do? |
| 21:03.01 |
SuperTaz |
kill the
cache, first, I assume? |
| 21:03.01 |
SuperTaz |
no make
distclean needed, though, I hope? |
| 21:03.02 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
which link? |
| 21:03.08 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
nah, shouldn't need to |
| 21:03.11 |
SuperTaz |
okay |
| 21:03.17 |
brlcad |
i think
:) |
| 21:03.20 |
SuperTaz |
cache is
killed, re-running it |
| 21:03.20 |
TME |
when I set it
(to anything) shootray simply returns the distance to the outside
boundary |
| 21:04.10 |
SuperTaz |
it'll be a
little while...this is an oooooold mac ;) |
| 21:04.14 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 21:04.16 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
Link -- I saw title of Docbook call, but didn't click for fuller
descr. |
| 21:05.34 |
brlcad |
TME: setting
a_ray_length only matters if you're doing more than one_hit
shotlines (i.e. shotlines that go all the way through the geometry
and report all the in and out hitpoints it encounters) |
| 21:05.52 |
brlcad |
TME: the
a_ray_length tells it how far to report results, if you want to
limit it |
| 21:06.02 |
brlcad |
otherwise, it
will report them all along the given shotline |
| 21:06.13 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
ahh |
| 21:08.36 |
TME |
ok |
| 21:08.46 |
brlcad |
TME, rtshot
in src/rt has an example option that uses a_ray_length
iirc |
| 21:14.15 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
exactly do you wish to use Drupal for and what do you want to use
MediaWiki for? |
| 21:14.23 |
MinuteElectron |
Just so I
know what is going to go in each. |
| 21:17.18 |
brlcad |
mediawiki is
a great wiki, everyone knows and loves it for the most part cept
for those crazy tikiwiki folks ;) |
| 21:18.10 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah, I swear
by it. I would never use another wiki engine. |
| 21:18.17 |
brlcad |
so I'm
looking to let mediawiki do what it does best and drive most of the
dynamic content on the site |
| 21:18.39 |
MinuteElectron |
So MediaWiki
is more documentation and Drupal more of a pretty face? |
| 21:19.04 |
brlcad |
drupal has
other "content management" features that would be good to
have |
| 21:19.20 |
MinuteElectron |
I am new to
Drupal so you will need to extrapolate. |
| 21:19.43 |
brlcad |
like forums,
gallery modules, authentication modules, the ability to write our
own custom modules for things like a geometry database or benchmark
performance database |
| 21:20.31 |
MinuteElectron |
What does the
gallery module do? |
| 21:20.33 |
brlcad |
not to
mention, drupal just generally handles "blocks" better |
| 21:21.48 |
brlcad |
the most
popular drupal gallery module is actually an embedding of Gallery
(http://drupal.org/project/gallery) |
| 21:22.23 |
MinuteElectron |
I
see. |
| 21:23.55 |
MinuteElectron |
So the task
is, to set up Drupal and MediaWiki, add in some LDAP create a nice
theme that will work on drupal and mediawiki and move the content
from the current website into drupal and mediawiki? |
| 21:24.47 |
MinuteElectron |
I think I can
handle that. |
| 21:26.09 |
brlcad |
yep, that
sounds about right! |
| 21:26.17 |
MinuteElectron |
Cool, |
| 21:26.20 |
brlcad |
ldap is
probably last on that list even |
| 21:26.42 |
brlcad |
just getting
the new site up with drupal, mediawiki, integrated new
design/theme, and start importing data |
| 21:26.57 |
brlcad |
most of the
"hard work" is really doing to be the design/theme |
| 21:27.12 |
MinuteElectron |
Ok. |
| 21:27.17 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: still
having the same problem, even with the added flag |
| 21:27.22 |
MinuteElectron |
Have you a
preference, horizontal or vertical navigation? |
| 21:27.49 |
MinuteElectron |
dw |
| 21:34.15 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 21:37.31 |
MinuteElectron |
This is going
to be very interesting, colors have to be decided
upon.... |
| 21:37.32 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: probably "both" but with
different categories -- main categories horizontal, more options
horizontally |
| 21:37.54 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah,
cool |
| 21:38.25 |
brlcad |
let me see if
I can dig up the earlier template work |
| 21:38.30 |
brlcad |
just to give
you some ideas |
| 21:38.50 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 21:39.33 |
brlcad |
do you have
photoshop or a means to view .psd files? |
| 21:39.41 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, let me
check. |
| 21:40.34 |
MinuteElectron |
I just did a
complete reinstall of Windows so i haven't installed much yet. But
I have gimp, I will just see if it can open psd 's |
| 21:40.43 |
brlcad |
it can
iirc |
| 21:41.02 |
MinuteElectron |
Cool, then
the answer is yes. |
| 21:41.32 |
brlcad |
let me
preface by saying that this was just some fooling around more than
5 years ago so you don't have to use it or even start with it, just
some ideas |
| 21:41.38 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/template01.psd |
| 21:41.44 |
MinuteElectron |
Okay, |
| 21:41.46 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/template02.psd |
| 21:42.19 |
MinuteElectron |
I need to
expand my vocabulary. |
| 21:43.51 |
MinuteElectron |
Wow, this is
a great starting point. |
| 21:44.03 |
MinuteElectron |
I like the
green colors, it goes with the logo well. |
| 21:46.42 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad, I
still can't get it to compile...same error, same
context |
| 21:47.00 |
SuperTaz |
I have to get
out of here in a few, though...I'll be back later tonight and I'll
be around during the day tomorrow |
| 21:49.18 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
okay -- when you get a chance, if you could pastebin your *entire*
output including the configure line you call, that might
help |
| 21:49.51 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
there is a newer logo at http://brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 21:50.55 |
brlcad |
er sorry,
that latter was meant for MinuteElectron |
| 21:50.56 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Are
you pschyic? I needed that page too :P |
| 21:51.01 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
lol. |
| 22:26.17 |
MinuteElectron |
Aww, I wish
IE6 would render alpha transparency. |
| 22:29.55 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Is
'solid modeling for a strong defense' a registered
trademark? |
| 22:36.23 |
MinuteElectron |
arghf, view
this in any sane browser and it looks alright but in IE it looks
crap. http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 22:37.43 |
MinuteElectron |
lol I have
been working on the header for nearly an hour/ |
| 22:39.40 |
MinuteElectron |
oh dear, this
only looks alright at 1280x1024 resolution.... |
| 22:40.48 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 22:41.15 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: it is/was registered, but
don't worry about that .. no need to put the symbol |
| 22:41.25 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, I will
work on this tomorrow, but now I must sleep. You won't be able to
view this after my computer goes offline/ |
| 22:41.31 |
brlcad |
no need to
even use the tag line, but it's got character |
| 22:41.39 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah
:D |
| 22:41.42 |
brlcad |
I have
something you might be interested in |
| 22:41.47 |
MinuteElectron |
ooh |
| 22:42.38 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/websites.txt |
| 22:42.55 |
brlcad |
again, just
really loose concepts that had something relevant or
interesting |
| 22:43.17 |
brlcad |
as well as
what others in "our industry" are doing |
| 22:43.48 |
MinuteElectron |
interesting |
| 22:44.14 |
MinuteElectron |
I will have a
closer look at these and see if I can introduce some of those
concepts into my design tomorrow. but for now,
goodnight. |
| 22:44.42 |
brlcad |
cya! |
| 23:28.53 |
poolio |
brlcad: howdy
:) |
| 23:31.41 |
poolio |
brlcad: If
you have a couple minutes in the near future I could use a hand
trying to figure out if the bug i'm encountering is my app or
general raytracer |
| 23:47.17 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.173.3) |
| 00:17.41 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:24.01 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:26.39 |
poolio |
oops. |
| 00:28.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/.cvsignore: ignore the beset
product |
| 00:28.32 |
poolio |
brlcad: good
choice :) |
| 00:39.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: it
seems like part of the problem / the problem has to do with
rti_radius...If I create a sphere with radius of 4, the min/max is
correctly computed, but the bounding sphere has a radius of
6.9282...? |
| 00:39.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h fitness.h
population.c population.h): petty cosmetics while browsing, mostly
ws |
| 00:39.39 |
poolio |
err i've been
updating stuff :\ |
| 00:40.11 |
brlcad |
no worries,
nothing likely to conflict |
| 00:40.25 |
brlcad |
still reading
what all you have going |
| 00:41.04 |
poolio |
alright, but
that rti_radius vs bounding box thing is confusing me |
| 00:41.15 |
poolio |
and possibly
part of the problem, or maybe it's my confusion with how the
raytracer works |
| 00:41.39 |
poolio |
thanks for
fixing my headers :) |
| 00:41.39 |
brlcad |
you'll have
to back me up to some example so I can see |
| 00:41.46 |
poolio |
Yeah
sure |
| 00:42.06 |
poolio |
It involves
some effor on your end though, I could throw some code together to
do it automatically if you want though |
| 00:42.36 |
brlcad |
nah, just say
what I need to do |
| 00:42.41 |
brlcad |
make a sph in
mged? |
| 00:42.45 |
poolio |
yes |
| 00:42.49 |
brlcad |
radius
4? |
| 00:42.51 |
poolio |
sure |
| 00:42.53 |
poolio |
4.0 |
| 00:43.06 |
poolio |
the output of
the program is god awful |
| 00:43.18 |
poolio |
you could
also modify the program and do it that way, but i think the mged
way is the easiest |
| 00:43.35 |
poolio |
so make a
sphere, run the program with ./beset database.g 1 1 spherename.s
aadf |
| 00:43.47 |
poolio |
the aadf is
just me still not decrementing the argc check |
| 00:44.05 |
brlcad |
already
done |
| 00:44.18 |
brlcad |
not sure what
those numbers mean yet |
| 00:44.31 |
poolio |
so they are
the in/out points of the shotline ray |
| 00:44.36 |
poolio |
1 1 = 1x1
grid of rays |
| 00:44.38 |
poolio |
so just 1
ray |
| 00:44.47 |
brlcad |
shooting in
what direction? |
| 00:44.48 |
poolio |
that should
be centered ... i think |
| 00:44.52 |
brlcad |
ah,
k |
| 00:45.02 |
poolio |
hopefully
shooting along the z axis |
| 00:45.17 |
poolio |
but i think
i've confused my axis somewhere, but it's shooting along some
defined axis |
| 00:45.35 |
poolio |
and the
numbers are wrong...that's another issue.. |
| 00:45.54 |
brlcad |
what are the
bracketed values? |
| 00:45.58 |
poolio |
ok
so |
| 00:46.08 |
poolio |
they're the
in/out points of the ray |
| 00:46.13 |
poolio |
the left one
is the model shape |
| 00:46.21 |
poolio |
model shape =
stored shape in database |
| 00:46.35 |
poolio |
the right one
is the GA one which should be set to some value in
population.c |
| 00:46.37 |
poolio |
some whole
numbered value |
| 00:46.46 |
poolio |
I've modified
everything to try to isolate what is going on |
| 00:47.03 |
poolio |
so basically,
with a radius of 4, the in/out hit points are those |
| 00:47.11 |
poolio |
(those are
normalized to the rti_radius*2 (diameter)) |
| 00:47.27 |
brlcad |
ah,
normalized |
| 00:47.28 |
poolio |
the reason
it's not 1 and is instead .57735 has to do with rti_radius being
completely off for some reason |
| 00:48.21 |
brlcad |
where do you
normalize? |
| 00:48.30 |
poolio |
I normalize
in fitness.c |
| 00:49.04 |
poolio |
stored rays
are normalized as they are stored in capture_hit |
| 00:49.18 |
poolio |
candidates
rays are normalized as they are compared in compare_hit |
| 00:49.43 |
poolio |
the printing
is coming from compare_hit |
| 00:49.55 |
poolio |
If you wait
one minute I think I'll make it a bit more clear and stop wasting
your time :) |
| 00:59.07 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright cvs update and you should get output that means
something |
| 01:00.10 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 01:00.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: it's
beset.c and fitness.c |
| 01:00.51 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c): added
logical debugging output |
| 01:01.07 |
poolio |
brlcad: same
instructions but don't need the junk 5th argument |
| 01:01.28 |
poolio |
./beset db.g
1 1 sphere.s |
| 01:01.42 |
poolio |
try it with
something like 4 then 4.01 |
| 01:02.53 |
poolio |
my output:
http://rafb.net/p/JIkxZt54.html |
| 01:03.42 |
poolio |
whole.s is a
sphere of radius 4, dec.s is a sphere of radius 4.01 |
| 01:07.26 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: error check
fit_prep() return value |
| 01:08.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: I add
in error checking after I get it working in known conditions, I
wouldn't worry about it for now :P |
| 01:11.27 |
brlcad |
i figured
half as much, though there's a reason |
| 01:11.45 |
poolio |
Yeah, it
could be stuff like that that's failing and I don't check and
that's why it's going crazy |
| 01:12.49 |
poolio |
I should
probably do that now, I'm just not sure if you're doing it and
didn't want to commit stuff that you might be changing |
| 01:13.00 |
brlcad |
it's a habit
to *always* write your checks at the same time, sanity checking as
you go along -- you need the code regardless so you might as well
write it while it's in your locus of attention |
| 01:13.32 |
brlcad |
don't worry
about committing over me.. that's what cvs is for ;) |
| 01:13.33 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yeah
I know, my issue is that I hate having to scroll past it all the
time |
| 01:13.49 |
brlcad |
you get used
to it, becomes second nature |
| 01:14.39 |
poolio |
so any ideas
off the top of your head with the weird raytrace shifting
thing? |
| 01:14.46 |
brlcad |
still
looking |
| 01:15.05 |
brlcad |
which is why
I was adding checks while poking .. it's in my locus of attention
;) |
| 01:15.16 |
brlcad |
always better
earlier than later.. |
| 01:15.18 |
poolio |
I appreciate
it :) |
| 01:15.30 |
brlcad |
lots can
happen between early and later |
| 01:15.52 |
brlcad |
the sort of
bugs and unchecked values that can send you debugging for
days |
| 01:16.10 |
poolio |
I've already
been debugging for days :\ |
| 01:16.28 |
brlcad |
that's
probably more a combination of reasons :) |
| 01:16.41 |
poolio |
stupidity
weighing heavily |
| 01:18.23 |
poolio |
I also had a
kind of general question about C coding. Is it considered a bad
practice to have code that's not part of the main routine output
info? Like I'm specifying certain return values and then checking
the return values in main() and printing out error info. Before I
had it just print the error and exit from the routine |
| 01:21.41 |
brlcad |
nah |
| 01:22.06 |
brlcad |
(re
stupidity) |
| 01:22.06 |
poolio |
k |
| 01:22.06 |
poolio |
oh |
| 01:22.06 |
poolio |
:P |
| 01:22.18 |
brlcad |
a like your
layout, not too tricky to follow |
| 01:22.26 |
poolio |
brlcad:
hurray :) |
| 01:22.37 |
poolio |
by layout you
just mean the file structure and routine hierarchy? |
| 01:23.16 |
brlcad |
and to your
second question .. heck no, that's fine either way |
| 01:23.27 |
poolio |
alright
cool. |
| 01:23.37 |
brlcad |
generally,
error/failure recovery is just a big design decision.. just should
try to be consistent on the approach |
| 01:24.20 |
brlcad |
whether you
use return codes, or abort in place, or try to recover from
failures, or use result structures, or throw exceptions, or set
jump points, etc |
| 01:24.44 |
poolio |
I think I
might just let the routines exit. I mean all the errors that can be
errors are fatal errors |
| 01:24.46 |
brlcad |
for something
like this -- if it's a fatal error, I'd just abort |
| 01:24.57 |
brlcad |
s/abort/terminate the
application/ |
| 01:24.58 |
poolio |
Well not all
the errors, but all the errors I'm printing error messages
for |
| 01:25.05 |
poolio |
brlcad: ok
cool |
| 01:25.51 |
brlcad |
it's
generally only worth the overhead/complexity of return
codes/structs/exceptions/etc if you're actually going to handle
them under some conditions |
| 01:26.12 |
poolio |
yeah that's
what I'm considering... it just adds more conditional checks into
main() that do nothing |
| 01:26.18 |
brlcad |
or if there's
some secondary benefit, like being able to print more informative
messgaes by returning values higher up the chain |
| 01:26.41 |
poolio |
Well that's
what I was thinking with error messages, I wanted to print the
program name too but I don't think that's of much
importance |
| 01:26.56 |
brlcad |
usually it's
a balance, particularly if you have things that can return null,
you check your nulls regardless |
| 01:27.04 |
brlcad |
s/your/for/ |
| 01:27.45 |
poolio |
well I feel
like bu_malloc has cleaned up a lot of code pertaining to null
pointers |
| 01:28.57 |
brlcad |
that was done
that way primarily because it's such a common pattern, and it was
an architecture decision to never have memory failures reach
application code |
| 01:29.11 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
take that to an extreme for all call types ;) |
| 01:29.16 |
brlcad |
like I said,
it's a balance |
| 01:29.26 |
poolio |
yeah, I like
that decision. |
| 01:30.28 |
brlcad |
if you have a
routine that has several types of possible errors, it might
actually make sense to return an error code or null pointer or what
have you, and have the one or two callers just check that value
than have N print-error/release-memory/shut-down statements in that
deep function |
| 01:32.13 |
brlcad |
the more
frequent decision is usually whether to use return codes (0 good,
!0 bad) or truthfull results (true succeed, false
failure) |
| 01:32.55 |
brlcad |
or if you're
c++, whether to use exceptions at all or not, other examples
abound |
| 01:34.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: quell
warning |
| 01:41.52 |
poolio |
brlcad: eek,
I changed that.... |
| 01:42.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
just made it print the error and exit...oh well |
| 01:42.19 |
brlcad |
*ahem* commit
early, commit often |
| 01:42.42 |
poolio |
I think I
might actually write that on top of my monitor |
| 01:42.51 |
poolio |
DON'T FORGET
KIDS: commit early, commit often |
| 01:42.57 |
poolio |
(that better
not be relationship advice) |
| 01:43.12 |
brlcad |
you'll hear
that in jusst about every open source project if you've not
already |
| 01:43.44 |
brlcad |
only way to
effectively coordinate distributed devs without halting progress --
first to commit "wins", those that follow get to potentially
resolve conflicts ;) |
| 01:43.53 |
poolio |
grargh. |
| 01:44.28 |
brlcad |
so I have the
answer to one question for you |
| 01:45.11 |
brlcad |
the radius it
assigns is only guaranteed to be larger, not tight
fitting |
| 01:45.38 |
poolio |
alright. so I
think I'll stick to the bounding box |
| 01:45.55 |
brlcad |
it computes
the bounding sphere by taking half the diameter of the bounding
box |
| 01:45.56 |
poolio |
so is it a
sphere that fits inside it the bounding box? |
| 01:46.03 |
poolio |
ah
ok |
| 01:46.04 |
brlcad |
and if you
remember your trig, then those numbers make more sense
;) |
| 01:46.38 |
poolio |
Yes, but the
issue with numbers had to do when it wasn't a whole
number |
| 01:46.43 |
brlcad |
s/diameter/length from the longest
corner-to-corner span/ |
| 01:47.07 |
brlcad |
the radius is
still fine to use, shouldn't matter |
| 01:47.48 |
brlcad |
only happens
to be obvious with a sphere since the bounding box is significantly
bigger than the sphere, then that box's bounding sphere is then
larger |
| 01:47.58 |
poolio |
yeah
true |
| 01:48.05 |
poolio |
so I can
still leave that I guess |
| 01:48.50 |
brlcad |
btw, a good
testing value (aside from a debugger) for shooting rays is nirt
and/or rtshot |
| 01:51.33 |
brlcad |
e.g. rtshot
-d 0 0 -1 -p 0 0 1000 test.g sph (shoots down the Z
axis) |
| 01:55.45 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright, so there is something messed up with my raytracing of
rational numbers |
| 01:56.30 |
poolio |
thanks for
the time and effort |
| 01:59.49 |
brlcad |
which axes
are your U,V axis along? |
| 02:00.02 |
brlcad |
xy? |
| 02:00.04 |
poolio |
I want to say
X and Y, but I also want to say I didn't check that and they might
not be |
| 02:20.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.c fitness.h): quell
more warnings, exit instead of returning in fit_prep() |
| 02:23.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
luck? |
| 02:32.23 |
brlcad |
well, the
first shotline looked fine, adding some debug |
| 02:32.46 |
poolio |
which first
shotline? |
| 02:34.00 |
brlcad |
you shoot up
the Z axis at the R4 sphere, get a 8mm thick segment |
| 02:34.58 |
poolio |
Yep. you
shoot up the Z axis at the R4.01 sphere and get an 8.02mm thick
segment, which is correct, but for some reason it's shifted over 1
mm? |
| 02:51.43 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: add support for librt
-x debugging (e.g. -x 1 for rt_shootray() shotline debugging, see
raytrace.h for debug flags) |
| 02:54.00 |
brlcad |
you're right,
it's shifted |
| 02:57.21 |
poolio |
brlcad: aha!
the issue is that the bounding box is whole numbers it looks
like |
| 02:59.05 |
brlcad |
yes, it kicks
the box up to the next whole number |
| 02:59.11 |
poolio |
oh
man... |
| 02:59.16 |
poolio |
anyway to get
decimal bounding boxes? |
| 02:59.17 |
brlcad |
your second
shotline against 4.01 looks right... |
| 02:59.28 |
poolio |
It is, the
issue was I thought the bounding box would fit the
shape |
| 02:59.46 |
poolio |
Somehow my
brain missed the change in bounding box size |
| 03:00.08 |
brlcad |
9.01 .99 =
8.02 (shotline thickness) |
| 03:00.26 |
poolio |
brlcad: yes I
see the rt output is right, the issue is the bounding box, how can
I get a more accurate one? |
| 03:01.13 |
brlcad |
hm, well that
gets a bit more complicated |
| 03:01.29 |
brlcad |
you could
compute them yourself.. but you shouldn't need a tight fitting
box |
| 03:02.10 |
poolio |
Well it's
neccesary to have a tight fitting box if I want it to be able to
disregard scale along the z-axis (ray) |
| 03:02.33 |
brlcad |
firstoff,
remember that these are not unitless values.. the box is within
1mm |
| 03:04.21 |
poolio |
I mean the
option would be to make the units/size bigger, but it wouldn't be
too difficult to calculate it on my own |
| 03:05.02 |
SuperTaz |
howdy |
| 03:05.05 |
SuperTaz |
I have
returned |
| 03:05.08 |
poolio |
I also just
need the min/max in the z directon |
| 03:05.20 |
SuperTaz |
the build
process still hates me, though |
| 03:06.18 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
shoot off the rays on each model, keeping track of the min/max (and
all the individual rays and their parititons) then shift the rays
so that the ray closest tot he point is 0 distance away and it
should be good |
| 03:06.29 |
poolio |
normalize
with max ray distance - min ray distance |
| 03:06.34 |
poolio |
that way you
wouldn't ahve to re-raytrace |
| 03:07.32 |
poolio |
but it would
require storing all the rays, and separating the ray-by-ray
comparison |
| 03:08.12 |
poolio |
Thats my
besat idea... |
| 03:08.15 |
brlcad |
that's pretty
good actually |
| 03:08.31 |
brlcad |
should be
faster to process too |
| 03:08.41 |
poolio |
faster than
the current implmenetation? |
| 03:08.52 |
brlcad |
that said,
you can get at the bounding box before it's clamped |
| 03:09.38 |
poolio |
what do you
mean (i don't quite understand :P) ? |
| 03:10.13 |
brlcad |
sorry, doing
too many things at once :) |
| 03:10.32 |
brlcad |
what I mean
is that the clamping is done for ray-trace
partitioning/optimization reasons |
| 03:10.35 |
poolio |
you mean in
librt and prepping? I can get a closer bounding box? |
| 03:10.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah
understood, but wouldn't I have to hack up librt? |
| 03:10.46 |
brlcad |
before
calling prep, it should be the tight-fit box |
| 03:11.20 |
poolio |
wait, so when
I extract the rt_i from the database it's the actual bounding
box? |
| 03:11.53 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
here's another pastebin link, this time with a couple of extra
lines above to give you better context: |
| 03:11.57 |
SuperTaz |
http://pastebin.ca/594796 |
| 03:12.29 |
brlcad |
poolio: the
bounding sizes are computed during the rt_gettrees() |
| 03:12.48 |
poolio |
brlcad:
cheers :) |
| 03:12.51 |
brlcad |
once you
prepare for a ray-trace, the boxes are clamped so that the spatial
partitioning is well-behaved |
| 03:13.03 |
brlcad |
(i.e. during
prep) |
| 03:13.03 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
just overwrite the clamped values after rt_prep() ? |
| 03:13.16 |
brlcad |
eep, no,
don't do that |
| 03:13.26 |
brlcad |
but you can
grab/stash them if you like |
| 03:13.33 |
poolio |
wait, why
not? |
| 03:13.42 |
brlcad |
it clamps
them for a reason :) |
| 03:13.54 |
poolio |
What's the
reason? |
| 03:14.00 |
poolio |
is it a lot
faster when using whole numbers? |
| 03:14.09 |
poolio |
(for the
bounding box) |
| 03:14.39 |
brlcad |
that, and
there are all sorts of tolerancing and scene iteration that occurs
as the ray is marched through a scene |
| 03:15.01 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
stash the value and use it to shift and normalize the
rays? |
| 03:15.15 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: it
looks like a problem with whitespace in CFLAGS |
| 03:15.28 |
brlcad |
you don't
have to perform the same equations when progressing a ray and can
get away with just checking signs for example |
| 03:16.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: wait
what? are you referencing the advantages of clamping the
value? |
| 03:16.10 |
brlcad |
poolio: sure,
you can do that .. though I like your other idea too of just
keeping track of all of the rays and computing as a post-process --
either way |
| 03:16.46 |
poolio |
brlcad: Do
you see an advantage to post-processing? To me that's just more
data storage which seems pretty pointless. You can store the model
easily enough and obtain that raytraced data if needed. That's the
idea of the whole program ;) |
| 03:16.49 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
I've seen that before, but it's been a long time |
| 03:18.01 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: I'm
trying to track it down, but so far I've had no luck in figuring
out where it's introduced |
| 03:18.48 |
brlcad |
the wierdness
is that it hasn't "run before" yet, I think it's a matter of the
CFLAGS from the top-level configure not matching what configure is
passing to the sub-configure |
| 03:19.08 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
that's exactly what's happening |
| 03:19.10 |
brlcad |
poolio: not a
really strong advantage |
| 03:19.19 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
like the rt_shootray debbugging, thanks for that :) |
| 03:19.24 |
brlcad |
some
advantages and disadvantages |
| 03:19.51 |
poolio |
mind
iterating some of the advantages? |
| 03:20.18 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: the
question is whether there's an easy hack |
| 03:20.20 |
SuperTaz |
ls |
| 03:20.23 |
SuperTaz |
oops |
| 03:21.00 |
brlcad |
good
question |
| 03:22.39 |
brlcad |
poolio: cache
coherency -- mild performance difference (which is an entirely
pointless statement without profiling of course) |
| 03:22.44 |
SuperTaz |
I think I
found something, though...the generated configure script seems to
set up some whitespace |
| 03:22.56 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah,
over my head. I have no clue what you mean by cache coherency
:P |
| 03:23.05 |
brlcad |
pointless
because it could be entirely countered by avoiding memory
allocations and other management logic |
| 03:23.07 |
poolio |
brlcad:
optimization comes after functionality |
| 03:23.21 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 03:23.29 |
brlcad |
and
speculative optimization is bad |
| 03:23.33 |
brlcad |
shame on me
for saying it ;) |
| 03:23.35 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright, I'll try to fix up this damn bug finally |
| 03:23.54 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: I'm
trying to fake it out...I just modified the cache file and re-ran
configure |
| 03:24.02 |
SuperTaz |
don't think
it'll work, but it's worth a shot |
| 03:25.14 |
SuperTaz |
poolio: it's
the law of diminishing returns at work |
| 03:25.51 |
brlcad |
poolio: the
only other reason would be if you ever changed your ray shooter to
not shoot rays orthogonally down an axis |
| 03:26.15 |
SuperTaz |
poolio: in
the performance realm, we have to analyze whether the potential
gains of [further] optimization of a particular piece of
functionality outweighs the investment |
| 03:26.25 |
brlcad |
that will
undoubtedly cause aliasing issues down the road without jittering
the rays, though whether that matters remains to be
seen |
| 03:26.34 |
poolio |
brlcad: which
I don't really see a reason to, but it'd be interesting to try to
run the GA at different axis and see how it does |
| 03:26.54 |
brlcad |
poolio: even
better, not along any axis at all |
| 03:26.56 |
poolio |
SuperTaz: yes
yes. |
| 03:27.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
fail to comprehend, but okay :) |
| 03:27.14 |
brlcad |
sample from
all around the bounding sphere, for example, until you converge on
a mass |
| 03:27.35 |
poolio |
oh, by axis i
just meant arbitrary line through the object, not x,y,z |
| 03:28.13 |
poolio |
brlcad: wait,
why wouldn't shooting it from just one angle converge on a
mass? |
| 03:29.31 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
wouldn't random sampling work out to be more costly in the long
run? |
| 03:30.58 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/Makefile.am: tk doesn't have a
unix/dltest dir to prodclean |
| 03:31.14 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
depends on the goal/purpose |
| 03:31.28 |
SuperTaz |
or are you
talking about aiming inward from the boundary horizon, instead of
outward? |
| 03:32.19 |
brlcad |
shooting rays
at the object to effectively point-sample it
through-and-through |
| 03:32.42 |
SuperTaz |
assuming that
you're using the center of the bounding sphere as either the target
or origin of the ray, firing inwards would be more efficient than
firing outwards |
| 03:32.59 |
poolio |
errrrr |
| 03:33.10 |
brlcad |
you generally
don't want to shoot rays from inside geometry |
| 03:33.20 |
SuperTaz |
yes |
| 03:33.43 |
SuperTaz |
but I mean as
the anchorpoint of the trajectory if you're not firing along an
axis |
| 03:34.16 |
SuperTaz |
i.e. using it
as the fulcrum on which the arbitrary axis rests |
| 03:34.20 |
brlcad |
also wouldn't
want to always shoot at the center |
| 03:34.43 |
SuperTaz |
yes, but I'm
talking about shooting inwards from the horizon, instead of
outwards from the object |
| 03:34.50 |
brlcad |
that will
bias the ray density for various shapes, sampling more points at
portions near the center |
| 03:34.56 |
SuperTaz |
if you're
randomly sampling |
| 03:35.11 |
brlcad |
i don't think
anyone ever suggested shooting "outwards" |
| 03:35.12 |
SuperTaz |
hrmmm...I
suppose that's true |
| 03:35.14 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 03:35.32 |
SuperTaz |
no, but I
misunderstood the topic, seeing as how I walked in late, I believe
;) |
| 03:36.46 |
SuperTaz |
and was
largely thinking aloud and re-adjusting my assumptions, when I
realized that random sampling is only inefficient when it's outward
(the further away you get from the centroid, the less coverage area
you have) |
| 03:38.01 |
SuperTaz |
i.e. if you
have a 1 degree spread between 2 rays, it's pretty dense right near
the object, and exponentially approaches completely useless the
further away you get from the object (the distance between the two
objects increases) |
| 03:38.12 |
SuperTaz |
err...rays,
not objects at the end of that |
| 03:38.34 |
SuperTaz |
perhaps
instead of using a centroid, there's some sort of path one could
create, though |
| 03:38.39 |
SuperTaz |
BTW |
| 03:38.56 |
SuperTaz |
configure is
re-starting itself with new CFLAGS, which is screwing it
up |
| 03:39.28 |
brlcad |
which
autoconf are you using? |
| 03:39.36 |
SuperTaz |
sec |
| 03:39.39 |
brlcad |
default mac
version, or fink or ports or something? |
| 03:39.59 |
SuperTaz |
autoconf (GNU
Autoconf) 2.59 |
| 03:40.08 |
SuperTaz |
ports, I
believe |
| 03:40.25 |
SuperTaz |
might be
stock, though |
| 03:40.39 |
SuperTaz |
looks like
it's stock |
| 03:40.47 |
SuperTaz |
it's in
/usr/bin |
| 03:40.57 |
SuperTaz |
ports is
/opt/bin or /usr/local/bin, iirc |
| 03:42.18 |
SuperTaz |
I'm
considering trying to specify the cflags, and seeing what
happens |
| 03:42.58 |
SuperTaz |
re-extracting
the src over what's existing, though, since I accidentally typed
autoconf -v before autoconf --version |
| 03:43.08 |
SuperTaz |
and autoconf
-v hoses stuff |
| 03:44.44 |
SuperTaz |
there is a
spot where it does a check and sets CFLAGS=" " |
| 03:44.53 |
SuperTaz |
I suspect
there's more than one place that it does that |
| 03:44.55 |
SuperTaz |
probably
2 |
| 03:45.01 |
SuperTaz |
or it hits
that spot twice |
| 03:45.13 |
SuperTaz |
and the
whitespace stays |
| 03:45.36 |
SuperTaz |
specifying
the cflags on the command line will PROBABLY remove the
problem |
| 03:45.41 |
SuperTaz |
we shall
see |
| 03:46.15 |
SuperTaz |
of course, it
would be best to remedy the bug |
| 03:46.22 |
SuperTaz |
thanks,
yukon |
| 03:46.24 |
brlcad |
could just be
a matter of trimming the whitespace in configure.ac before it gets
to the sub-configures |
| 03:46.39 |
SuperTaz |
I've been
doing this stuff for many years...I've learned to be
patient |
| 03:47.01 |
SuperTaz |
port one
application or write one network stack and you will learn enough
patience to last a lifetime |
| 03:47.43 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: that
might work |
| 03:48.43 |
SuperTaz |
I'm happy to
apply a patch if you want to experiment, even if I do get it to
build successfully with my attempted trickery ;) |
| 03:49.08 |
SuperTaz |
I've never
really messed with autoconf much |
| 03:49.20 |
SuperTaz |
so it's
admittedly a little bit of a weakness |
| 03:49.32 |
SuperTaz |
(and a lot of
smoke and mirrors, imho :P ) |
| 03:49.59 |
brlcad |
yeah, lemme
test here |
| 03:50.03 |
SuperTaz |
k |
| 03:50.09 |
yukonbob |
SuperTaz: you
running 7.10.0 |
| 03:50.10 |
yukonbob |
? |
| 03:50.19 |
yukonbob |
(or rather,
trying to run) |
| 03:50.34 |
SuperTaz |
yes |
| 03:50.42 |
SuperTaz |
on OS X
10.4.10 |
| 03:52.40 |
SuperTaz |
have
something I am trying to design, and learned modelling in the
mid-90's with Alias and Explore, so I'm used to both NURBS and
solids modellers |
| 03:53.20 |
SuperTaz |
but I also
had dynamation and kinemation expertise, and this project actually
needs materials simulation |
| 03:53.42 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
most people are oblivious to deps, even 'most' devs |
| 03:54.01 |
SuperTaz |
which means I
either have to find a way to get the now-extinct Explore and port
it to OS X or Windows, or find something else |
| 03:54.02 |
brlcad |
they care
about features, functionality, and a clean compile usually from my
experience |
| 03:54.06 |
SuperTaz |
enter BRL-CAD
;) |
| 03:54.34 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
we're open to new devs if you have an itch that you want to scratch
;) |
| 03:54.38 |
SuperTaz |
and, frankly,
I don't use tcl/tk for much on this machine |
| 03:54.42 |
SuperTaz |
hehehe
brl |
| 03:55.54 |
yukonbob |
?is there
currently any nurb support, or is that what poolio is working on
atm |
| 03:56.01 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 03:56.51 |
SuperTaz |
you know...I
like both types of modelling |
| 03:57.01 |
SuperTaz |
which
probably makes me a rare breed |
| 03:57.20 |
poolio |
yukonbob:
nope. i'm not really working on anything. |
| 03:57.22 |
brlcad |
the big tasks
going on right (i.e. the major focus of this year) now are a new
BREP/NURBS implementation, a STEP geometry converter, and a new
modeling interface |
| 03:57.39 |
poolio |
yukonbob: a
bizarre GA project :) |
| 03:57.47 |
SuperTaz |
nice |
| 03:57.50 |
yukonbob |
"GA"? |
| 03:57.56 |
poolio |
genetic
algorithm |
| 03:58.01 |
poolio |
brlcad: who's
goign to do the STEP converter? |
| 03:58.02 |
yukonbob |
ah,
right. |
| 03:58.03 |
SuperTaz |
actually, the
materials stuff does look interesting to me :) |
| 03:58.14 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
there is support for nurbs in brl-cad .. albeit slow and
problematic, you can generally only create them programmaticly or
via iges import |
| 03:58.28 |
SuperTaz |
and the
physics engine support would be nice to have, too |
| 03:59.01 |
brlcad |
more
importantly, though, is a completely new (re)implementation and
integration of a brep/nurbs primitive |
| 03:59.08 |
SuperTaz |
of course,
with nearly a million lines of code already in the project, getting
acquainted with the guts of something I haven't even seen, yet
should be a bit of a challenge ;) |
| 03:59.48 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
essentially, you're going to add NURBS to the GUI
modeller? |
| 03:59.49 |
brlcad |
poolio: I've
worked on it some, but I'm trying to find someone else who can work
on the step converter |
| 04:00.34 |
SuperTaz |
so you can do
what they did with Explore in the mid 90's, when they added NURBS
and blob modelling to the solids modelling |
| 04:00.39 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
also fortunately, the package is fairly compartmentalized into
various tools and libraries.. so you don't necessarily need to
understand the majority of those millino lines before you can make
something useful/interesting/improved |
| 04:01.13 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: good
to know |
| 04:01.20 |
SuperTaz |
I did notice
that in the diagram |
| 04:01.37 |
poolio |
SuperTaz: I'm
a fairly young amateur coder and if you hvae a specific project,
you can probably learn most of what you need to know in at most a
couple weeks |
| 04:01.39 |
SuperTaz |
of course,
physics and materials are both fairly complicated |
| 04:01.44 |
brlcad |
yes, going to
add nurbs modeling to the gui -- probably focusing more on a new
gui instead of hooking it into mged .. though mged might get some
functionality in that area .. still tbd |
| 04:02.21 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
diagram? |
| 04:02.48 |
SuperTaz |
poolio: I
used to do standards work and R&D at a fortune 50 manufacturer,
so I know...but there's a different between finding where to put
the shoehorn, and understand why the shoehorn works :) |
| 04:03.01 |
SuperTaz |
brl:
flowchart of how data moves? |
| 04:03.03 |
SuperTaz |
on the
web |
| 04:03.13 |
poolio |
SuperTaz:
yep, I'm currently satisfied with just sticking the shoehorn in
there. |
| 04:04.12 |
SuperTaz |
pool: that's
good for smaller stuff, but for major undertakings, such as
interfacing complex libraries like a physics engine, you really
have to understand the mechanics of the shoe, shoehorn, sock, and
foot |
| 04:04.43 |
SuperTaz |
just takes a
little longer :) |
| 04:05.00 |
SuperTaz |
and is a
little more frustrating when you get things wrong, until you're
intimately familiar with it :) |
| 04:05.02 |
poolio |
SuperTaz:
true, you're at a far differnet leve than I |
| 04:05.33 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
ahh, that old thing .. yes ;) |
| 04:05.46 |
SuperTaz |
hehehe |
| 04:06.02 |
poolio |
W0000000000T. |
| 04:06.06 |
poolio |
working :D
:D |
| 04:06.24 |
SuperTaz |
getting the
physics stuff in isn't going to happen easily |
| 04:06.39 |
SuperTaz |
btw,
brl...specifying the cflags didn't help |
| 04:06.44 |
SuperTaz |
it still
re-introduced the whitespace |
| 04:07.18 |
SuperTaz |
shame I don't
have contact info for Frances from Xaos, anymore |
| 04:07.44 |
SuperTaz |
she would
have been really adept at getting you your 2D compositor in place
in a few days of effort |
| 04:08.14 |
SuperTaz |
she
programmed most of the effects in Xaos Tools |
| 04:09.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: |
| 04:09.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
refactor the entire library processing so that it uses the exact
same list that |
| 04:09.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: is
used to compile from configure without maintaining a separate list
in here. |
| 04:09.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: add
additional options for libdir, includedir, and ldflags too. still
need to |
| 04:09.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: scan
the FLAGS vars for automake vars |
| 04:09.40 |
SuperTaz |
back in the
90's, in the days when an Onyx was the size of a refigerator and
was about as powerful as my PC, and when the notion of a z-buffer
was so new that you couldn't move the render window, else you'd get
artifacts from all over :P |
| 04:10.30 |
SuperTaz |
btw...it's
only the CFLAGS that are seeing injected whitespace |
| 04:10.38 |
SuperTaz |
the CPPFLAGS
and LDFLAGS are just fine |
| 04:12.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: remove the if, just
make the EOF check part of the case |
| 04:12.16 |
SuperTaz |
wound up with
the following when I tried specifying the same CFLAGS at the
commandline that it added: |
| 04:12.17 |
SuperTaz |
http://pastebin.ca/594860 |
| 04:12.39 |
brlcad |
CFLAGS is
special |
| 04:12.59 |
SuperTaz |
in the short
bus sense? |
| 04:13.17 |
SuperTaz |
or as in you
have oodles of special handling in there (which I seemed to
notice...) |
| 04:13.34 |
yukonbob |
SuperTaz:
lots of info on Frances Dose on the 'net, if she's the one you were
thinking of that worked at Xaos |
| 04:13.42 |
poolio |
brlcad: stop
touching up mah code ;) |
| 04:13.48 |
poolio |
well I guess
that was yours but ... heh :) |
| 04:14.00 |
brlcad |
no, there's
only one place where CFLAGS is treated special and it's done to
override autoconf's default -g -O2 behavior |
| 04:14.34 |
SuperTaz |
yes, that's
the one, yukon :) |
| 04:14.42 |
SuperTaz |
getting her
to contribute would be interesting, though |
| 04:15.46 |
SuperTaz |
not sure that
che could, though |
| 04:15.51 |
SuperTaz |
she's working
for philips now |
| 04:16.21 |
yukonbob |
http://www.francesdose.com/Coder.html |
| 04:16.25 |
SuperTaz |
so she might
be contractually prohibited from doing it |
| 04:16.37 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 04:16.43 |
brlcad |
ah, I see
what the issue is |
| 04:17.02 |
SuperTaz |
it was pretty
cool to learn pandemonium from the person who programmed all of the
routine |
| 04:17.16 |
brlcad |
it's retrying
configure because it fails to find X11 |
| 04:17.18 |
SuperTaz |
and I also
got to meet the GUI designer |
| 04:17.24 |
SuperTaz |
hrmmm |
| 04:17.32 |
SuperTaz |
that's what
it did the first time |
| 04:17.41 |
SuperTaz |
so I
specified the location of x11 |
| 04:17.43 |
SuperTaz |
and then it
found it |
| 04:17.52 |
brlcad |
checking for
X11 link functionality... no |
| 04:17.55 |
SuperTaz |
here's my
configure line (before the CFLAGS attempt) |
| 04:17.57 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:18.14 |
SuperTaz |
./configure
--with-x11=/usr/X11R6 --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad
--disable-retry |
| 04:18.22 |
SuperTaz |
hrmmm |
| 04:18.28 |
SuperTaz |
any
ideas? |
| 04:18.44 |
brlcad |
you used that
and it gave you http://pastebin.ca/594860
? |
| 04:23.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: finally rip out the retry code --
causes too many headaches and confusion when the retry also fails
since it has the tendency to hide the original real
problem. |
| 04:24.48 |
SuperTaz |
yup |
| 04:24.51 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (Makefile.am retry.m4): retry macros are no
longer needed, the configure retry code was ripped out |
| 04:25.18 |
brlcad |
for some
reason, it's not obeying the --disable flag |
| 04:25.59 |
brlcad |
you will
likely have better luck working off of cvs head now ;) |
| 04:26.06 |
SuperTaz |
hahaha |
| 04:26.19 |
SuperTaz |
I need to
install cvs on this box, I suppose |
| 04:26.23 |
SuperTaz |
I only have
svn ;) |
| 04:26.43 |
SuperTaz |
cause that's
what I use for everything these days :) |
| 04:26.49 |
brlcad |
we're doing
the conversion over to svn later this year |
| 04:26.57 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh, good
:) |
| 04:27.09 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 04:27.15 |
SuperTaz |
apple
provides cvs |
| 04:27.26 |
brlcad |
I've
converted most of the other projects I work with a long while ago,
but brl-cad's conversion will need to be rather careful |
| 04:27.33 |
brlcad |
~cadcvs |
| 04:28.33 |
ibot |
To obtain
BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
&& cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
checkout -P brlcad |
| 04:28.35 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:28.35 |
SuperTaz |
I have to go
find the instructions for using cvs to suck down brlcad
;) |
| 04:28.36 |
brlcad |
we've got
almost 25 years of comprehensive cvs history to retain
... |
| 04:28.36 |
brlcad |
ibot: wake
up |
| 04:28.45 |
ibot |
ACTION throws
a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD
MORNING!!!!" |
| 04:28.46 |
SuperTaz |
well, you
COULD keep the cvs repository around |
| 04:28.48 |
SuperTaz |
though I'm
sure it's possible to keep it |
| 04:29.10 |
brlcad |
it is
perfectly possible, but it's not automatic |
| 04:29.17 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:29.48 |
poolio |
brlcad: what
the heck. why was I quicksorting the candidate individuals based on
fitness? |
| 04:29.52 |
brlcad |
and from my
perspective, it's absolutely necessary .. not going to import fresh
and just leave the history in cvs |
| 04:30.19 |
brlcad |
poolio: for
crossover selection and other advancement criteria? |
| 04:30.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: well
they dont need to be sorted for any of those... oh
well.. |
| 04:30.46 |
poolio |
ill just
comment it out, i'm sure i'm going somewhere with it I just have
forgotten where |
| 04:31.14 |
SuperTaz |
good...you
SHOULD keep the history |
| 04:31.16 |
brlcad |
you have lots
of knobs you can tweak, like migrating the top N
unmodified/unmutated, droping the bottown M outright,
etc |
| 04:32.08 |
SuperTaz |
if you didn't
want to use subversion internally, you could just expose nightly
builds via svn (script a cvs checkout and a svn
checkin) |
| 04:32.31 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
we're rather proud of our extensive history, we just may have the
oldest repository histories that has remained intact |
| 04:32.35 |
SuperTaz |
I suspect
this cvs checkout is gonna take a while |
| 04:32.38 |
poolio |
brlcad: well
the way I do it is that I use the fitness as a weight, and a
weighted random individual picker |
| 04:32.50 |
poolio |
brlcad: but I
guess for other selection methods it makes sense |
| 04:33.01 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
that's awesome :) I read up on the history of the project...it's
part of what attracted me to it :) |
| 04:33.03 |
brlcad |
the fact that
we started even before cvs existed |
| 04:33.23 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 04:33.42 |
SuperTaz |
what did the
original team use for version control? |
| 04:33.54 |
PrezKennedy |
a
notepad |
| 04:33.56 |
PrezKennedy |
haha |
| 04:34.02 |
brlcad |
talking to
the ohloh folks a few months back, our history does/did go back the
farthest of all projects in ohloh |
| 04:34.17 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: it
was in rcs before moving to cvs |
| 04:34.19 |
SuperTaz |
heh...that's
cool |
| 04:34.21 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 04:34.25 |
SuperTaz |
god...I
remember rcs |
| 04:34.38 |
SuperTaz |
almost forgot
that we used to use rcs |
| 04:34.53 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 04:34.56 |
SuperTaz |
scary,
huh? |
| 04:35.00 |
brlcad |
we gave the
ohloh folks quite a head turn when brl-cad was added to their
index |
| 04:35.12 |
SuperTaz |
it's been a
good decade plus since I used ci/co ;) |
| 04:35.27 |
brlcad |
they thought
their import was catching "all commits to head" when in fact it
wasn't |
| 04:35.37 |
SuperTaz |
hahahaha
:) |
| 04:35.50 |
brlcad |
all of
brl-cad stats were massively wrong, missing thousands of commits
through the 80's |
| 04:36.10 |
SuperTaz |
yikes |
| 04:36.15 |
brlcad |
a little
hidden tidbit of knowledge about how cvs works |
| 04:36.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
off for the night, but thanks for fixing up my code |
| 04:36.32 |
brlcad |
they were
only pulling the latest rcs revision from cvs |
| 04:36.37 |
brlcad |
on
head |
| 04:36.41 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:36.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c
population.c fitness.h): fixed bug where spheres with non-whole
radii produced odd results |
| 04:37.02 |
brlcad |
since we
predated, the rcs revision numbers have continued to be
tweaked/incremented over the years for various accounting
purposes |
| 04:37.10 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:37.10 |
brlcad |
night
poolio |
| 04:37.21 |
SuperTaz |
wow...checkout finally finished
:) |
| 04:37.30 |
brlcad |
they had to
rearchitect their database and reimport all CVS projects when the
found that out |
| 04:38.35 |
SuperTaz |
hehehe...nice |
| 04:38.43 |
SuperTaz |
nothing like
a paradigm shift :) |
| 04:38.58 |
SuperTaz |
hadn't they
ever seen a project that had been ported from rcs to cvs
before?!? |
| 04:39.05 |
SuperTaz |
or am I just
old? |
| 04:39.10 |
SuperTaz |
(and I'm not
that old!) |
| 04:39.11 |
brlcad |
you're just
that old ;) |
| 04:39.14 |
poolio |
480 person
years. geeeeez. |
| 04:39.19 |
poolio |
gnite
guys |
| 04:39.20 |
SuperTaz |
yikes |
| 04:39.22 |
SuperTaz |
nite
poolio |
| 04:40.29 |
SuperTaz |
all I can say
is...I wasn't around the last time the Cubs won the World Series
;) |
| 04:41.22 |
brlcad |
heh, nor was
I by a long shot :) |
| 04:41.53 |
SuperTaz |
how long have
you been monkeying around with brl-cad? ;) |
| 04:42.07 |
*** join/#brlcad cad54
(n=3d588390@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 04:43.44 |
brlcad |
since just a
couple years before mike passed |
| 04:43.50 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:44.04 |
SuperTaz |
he passed in
2000, correct? |
| 04:44.04 |
brlcad |
about 9 years
now |
| 04:44.27 |
brlcad |
yeah, Nov
2000 |
| 04:44.34 |
brlcad |
did you know
him? |
| 04:44.45 |
SuperTaz |
no, I don't
think we ever crossed paths |
| 04:44.56 |
SuperTaz |
unless we met
at Siggraph or some such |
| 04:45.55 |
SuperTaz |
but back in
the days of Siggraph (for me), I was mainly in the animation,
mastering, and film areas |
| 04:46.03 |
brlcad |
hard to miss
him at siggraph, he was very much in the "elite elders"
crowd |
| 04:46.04 |
SuperTaz |
not as much
in the cad area |
| 04:46.10 |
SuperTaz |
hehehe |
| 04:46.28 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, I may
have met him in passing in the 90's |
| 04:46.44 |
SuperTaz |
I would
remember if I'd had the opportunity to talk in depth |
| 04:47.20 |
brlcad |
he really was
a brilliant guy (in many ways) |
| 04:47.33 |
brlcad |
and
exceptionally charismatic |
| 04:47.41 |
SuperTaz |
I remember
that's where I got my introduction to the guys from MRL at
NYU |
| 04:48.06 |
brlcad |
one of the
main reasons I was attracted towards working on brl-cad |
| 04:48.07 |
SuperTaz |
got to check
out their robotics and fab lab there when I was next in NY...that
was great |
| 04:48.10 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:48.18 |
SuperTaz |
it's a shame
I never got to know him |
| 04:48.34 |
SuperTaz |
those are my
favorite types of people :) |
| 04:49.04 |
SuperTaz |
at the IETF
meetings, that was the crowd I was always around |
| 04:49.14 |
brlcad |
aha |
| 04:49.16 |
SuperTaz |
used to play
nuclear war with the elders :) |
| 04:49.52 |
SuperTaz |
now that was
some fun |
| 04:50.14 |
brlcad |
speaking of
the ietf.. do you know don merrit? |
| 04:51.14 |
SuperTaz |
not
really |
| 04:51.41 |
SuperTaz |
it's been a
few years since I was really involved with the IETF |
| 04:51.44 |
brlcad |
he was the
long-time ietf representative from BRL / ARL |
| 04:51.48 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 04:52.10 |
SuperTaz |
I didn't
really know him |
| 04:52.40 |
brlcad |
just came to
mind because I ran into him at the ball field just last week and
some comment about the ietf came up :) |
| 04:52.47 |
SuperTaz |
hehehe |
| 04:53.11 |
SuperTaz |
I knew Scott
Bradner and Allison Mankin |
| 04:53.19 |
SuperTaz |
I was in
transport |
| 04:53.26 |
SuperTaz |
sigtran/TSVWG |
| 04:53.29 |
SuperTaz |
seamoby |
| 04:53.33 |
SuperTaz |
rohc |
| 04:53.53 |
SuperTaz |
knew Randy
Bush |
| 04:54.03 |
SuperTaz |
used to run
into him a bunch |
| 04:54.14 |
SuperTaz |
a lot of the
guys I worked with were from europe, too |
| 04:54.26 |
brlcad |
foreign names
to me :) |
| 04:54.35 |
SuperTaz |
yeah,
different area |
| 04:56.55 |
brlcad |
so what
caught your eye with brl-cad? |
| 04:56.57 |
SuperTaz |
actually, I
think he did a bunch of work in the transport area |
| 04:56.59 |
brlcad |
presume you
haven't used it before? |
| 04:57.06 |
SuperTaz |
no, I still
haven't used it ;) |
| 04:57.54 |
SuperTaz |
it was that
it's a solids modeller |
| 04:58.06 |
SuperTaz |
and that it
can import and export several formats |
| 04:58.39 |
brlcad |
been a bit of
a rocky start, from adapting to the conversion to open source,
setting up an infrastructure that can grow
collaboratively |
| 04:59.00 |
SuperTaz |
essentially,
I have a design in my head that I need model and ultimately produce
drawings of |
| 04:59.02 |
brlcad |
fighting the
old-age bagged (the modeler's gui) which maintaining active
development ;) |
| 04:59.12 |
SuperTaz |
heh
:) |
| 04:59.19 |
brlcad |
s/which/while/ |
| 04:59.37 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, I
figured ;) |
| 04:59.54 |
SuperTaz |
(btw...configure is running with
./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11R6
--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad) |
| 05:00.09 |
SuperTaz |
(we'll see if
it finds X11 and/or completes this time |
| 05:00.10 |
SuperTaz |
) |
| 05:00.27 |
SuperTaz |
anyway, I
need to get this idea out of my head and figure out whether it'll
work |
| 05:00.42 |
SuperTaz |
it'd be great
if I could simulate what happens when it's dropped |
| 05:00.45 |
brlcad |
if you get
interested in running a performance test, you'll probably also want
to add --enable-optimized for faster performance |
| 05:00.50 |
SuperTaz |
but I realize
that won't really happen |
| 05:00.57 |
SuperTaz |
oh? |
| 05:01.02 |
SuperTaz |
I can stop
it |
| 05:01.06 |
SuperTaz |
and add
that |
| 05:01.14 |
brlcad |
either way,
it's perfectly fine without it too |
| 05:01.44 |
brlcad |
brl-cad also
includes a benchmark performance suite that most like running,
gives a really historic perspective of your system's
performance |
| 05:01.48 |
SuperTaz |
stopped it,
added the flag, re-ran it |
| 05:02.20 |
brlcad |
don't forget
to make clean to clear out the unoptimized object files |
| 05:02.21 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* yeah,
that's pretty cool |
| 05:02.31 |
SuperTaz |
it was in
configure, still |
| 05:02.39 |
SuperTaz |
didn't get to
make |
| 05:02.58 |
SuperTaz |
unless you
broke the cardinal rule, and configure compiles more than
tests?? |
| 05:03.03 |
brlcad |
you can run
the benchmark either via "make benchmark" after the regular build
completes or via the "benchmark" command after installation
completes |
| 05:03.11 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 05:03.17 |
SuperTaz |
I'll probably
install first |
| 05:04.09 |
PrezKennedy |
alright you
old folks time for me to hit the hay |
| 05:04.09 |
SuperTaz |
this machine
is an old PowerMac G4 |
| 05:04.17 |
brlcad |
PrezKennedy:
heh |
| 05:04.25 |
PrezKennedy |
crazy people
expect me to care about their hardware problems on a friday
morning |
| 05:04.29 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 05:04.39 |
SuperTaz |
neither am I,
neither am I! |
| 05:04.55 |
SuperTaz |
relative to
some people, I'm quite young |
| 05:05.32 |
SuperTaz |
I haven't
even lived half of my life (I hope) |
| 05:05.39 |
brlcad |
and with the
upcoming advancements in medicine, one might live to be
300 |
| 05:05.56 |
brlcad |
*ahem* |
| 05:06.00 |
SuperTaz |
well, I
CERTAINLY haven't lived half of my life if I break 150
:) |
| 05:06.16 |
SuperTaz |
or
120 |
| 05:06.18 |
SuperTaz |
or
100 |
| 05:06.21 |
brlcad |
you don't
look a day over 130 |
| 05:06.21 |
PrezKennedy |
i havent even
hit a quarter of mine |
| 05:06.23 |
SuperTaz |
. .
. |
| 05:06.26 |
PrezKennedy |
i
win! |
| 05:06.35 |
SuperTaz |
well |
| 05:06.38 |
SuperTaz |
yes, you
win |
| 05:06.41 |
SuperTaz |
I
suppose |
| 05:06.48 |
SuperTaz |
if it's a
contest |
| 05:06.50 |
brlcad |
dunno |
| 05:06.54 |
brlcad |
with a name
like PrezKennedy |
| 05:07.04 |
brlcad |
sounds like a
recipe for "early retirement" |
| 05:07.08 |
SuperTaz |
hahahaha |
| 05:07.20 |
SuperTaz |
he may have
lived half of his life already, and he just doesn't know
it |
| 05:07.40 |
SuperTaz |
assuming he's
at least in the second half of his teens |
| 05:07.51 |
PrezKennedy |
early
20's |
| 05:08.02 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 05:08.14 |
brlcad |
that's
approaching mid-life crisis then |
| 05:08.14 |
SuperTaz |
<==== not
early 20's ;) |
| 05:09.33 |
brlcad |
age is but a
state of mind and I'm getting younger every day |
| 05:09.41 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 05:09.51 |
SuperTaz |
kennedy was
46 when he died |
| 05:10.08 |
SuperTaz |
so if you're
23 or older, you're screwed, son ;) |
| 05:10.31 |
SuperTaz |
(yes, I had
to look that one up) |
| 05:10.53 |
PrezKennedy |
no
relation |
| 05:10.56 |
PrezKennedy |
so im not
worried |
| 05:11.04 |
SuperTaz |
wow...he
won't even know where he was when the challenger
exploded |
| 05:11.12 |
SuperTaz |
geez |
| 05:11.35 |
PrezKennedy |
give it a few
years and neither will you ;-) |
| 05:11.58 |
SuperTaz |
you
know...that's something that will stick in my mind for the rest of
my life |
| 05:12.32 |
SuperTaz |
I remember
exactly where I was |
| 05:12.36 |
SuperTaz |
and how
stunned I was |
| 05:12.49 |
SuperTaz |
and we
interrupted our lunch to have a minute of silence |
| 05:13.48 |
brlcad |
had a really
interesting lecture about the name for those "life anchor" events
in psychology in college |
| 05:13.52 |
SuperTaz |
I felt so
awful for her students |
| 05:13.58 |
brlcad |
how you can
date generations by those events |
| 05:13.59 |
SuperTaz |
yeah? |
| 05:14.05 |
SuperTaz |
it's
true |
| 05:14.11 |
brlcad |
as one tends
to stick out moreso than others |
| 05:14.17 |
brlcad |
even as other
major events occur |
| 05:14.21 |
SuperTaz |
I've had more
than one of them, unfortunately |
| 05:14.54 |
SuperTaz |
that, the
world trade center bombing, the oklahoma city bombing, the final
attack on the world trade center |
| 05:15.17 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 05:15.34 |
SuperTaz |
okay...configure completed that
time |
| 05:15.42 |
SuperTaz |
I'm going to
scroll back to see if it caught X11 |
| 05:16.07 |
SuperTaz |
looks like
it |
| 05:16.14 |
SuperTaz |
13 minutes,
37 seconds to configure |
| 05:16.21 |
SuperTaz |
the joy of a
G4 400 |
| 05:16.34 |
SuperTaz |
make will
take hours, I'm sure |
| 05:17.52 |
SuperTaz |
probably let
it grind away while I sleep ;) |
| 05:18.47 |
SuperTaz |
take it psych
101 was after the challenger exploded for you? ;) |
| 05:19.25 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:20.04 |
tofu |
others being
landing on the moon, kennedy being shot, the tsunami, cuban missile
crisis, pearl harbor, ... |
| 05:20.09 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 05:20.23 |
SuperTaz |
you were
certainly not alive for all of those? |
| 05:20.24 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 05:20.45 |
brlcad |
heck
no |
| 05:20.47 |
SuperTaz |
katrina |
| 05:21.14 |
brlcad |
doubt katrina
was "big enough" |
| 05:21.24 |
PrezKennedy |
gnight
folks |
| 05:21.27 |
SuperTaz |
I'm guessing
psych 101 for you was somewhere between the challenger exploding
and the first world trade center bombing? |
| 05:21.28 |
brlcad |
generally has
to be "shocking" |
| 05:21.33 |
brlcad |
not just
tragic |
| 05:21.34 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 05:21.53 |
SuperTaz |
I
dunno...katrina was pretty profound for a lot of people |
| 05:22.06 |
SuperTaz |
and pretty
shocking |
| 05:22.38 |
SuperTaz |
that the
government couldn't handle it, that they let the levees fail, that
a HUGE piece of american history was wiped out (NO had a LOT of
history that was destroyed) |
| 05:22.39 |
brlcad |
no, I
experienced challenger up front and center -- I was one of millions
of kids in grade school that tuned in from the classroom attently
watching the launch |
| 05:22.47 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 05:23.00 |
SuperTaz |
that puts you
in your late 20's to early 30's |
| 05:23.14 |
brlcad |
thereabouts |
| 05:23.25 |
SuperTaz |
we weren't
watching the launch |
| 05:23.30 |
SuperTaz |
we were
having lunch |
| 05:24.02 |
SuperTaz |
the kitchen
staff were listening to the launch on the radio |
| 05:24.09 |
SuperTaz |
and came out
into the lunchroom to tell the asst. headmaster, whose table I was
sitting at |
| 05:24.41 |
SuperTaz |
at the time,
I still had dreams of being an astronaut |
| 05:24.49 |
SuperTaz |
hadn't quite
broken the height limit, yet |
| 05:26.06 |
SuperTaz |
btw...I'd be
a fan of seeing the site redone in rails |
| 05:26.40 |
SuperTaz |
as opposed to
drupal/mediawiki |
| 05:26.48 |
SuperTaz |
just a
personal bias ;) |
| 05:27.22 |
*** join/#brlcad zapp
(n=deltazap@pool-71-251-104-121.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:29.27 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 05:30.04 |
brlcad |
or lack
thereof ;) |
| 05:30.07 |
SuperTaz |
hahahaha |
| 05:30.11 |
SuperTaz |
complete lack
thereof |
| 05:30.15 |
SuperTaz |
I develop
that way, too ;) |
| 05:30.19 |
SuperTaz |
it makes me
more efficient |
| 05:32.46 |
SuperTaz |
there don't
seem to be any open source precision physics engines,
btw |
| 05:33.27 |
SuperTaz |
and the
real-time physics engines are pretty much useless for simulation,
unless you want them for basic animation purposes only, instead of
for simulation |
| 05:35.05 |
brlcad |
looked at
ODE? |
| 05:35.12 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 05:35.29 |
SuperTaz |
it's realtime
rigid body |
| 05:35.47 |
SuperTaz |
<PROTECTED> |
| 05:35.53 |
SuperTaz |
i.e. games
engine |
| 05:36.05 |
brlcad |
part of the
puzzle for a games engine |
| 05:36.09 |
SuperTaz |
or so it
seems...I'm reading more |
| 05:36.21 |
brlcad |
though useful
for basic physics interactions too |
| 05:36.28 |
SuperTaz |
yes |
| 05:37.32 |
SuperTaz |
but if I put
a physics engine into BRL-CAD, I'd want it to tell me how much
force was applied at impact, and whether it exceeds deformation and
breakage characteristics of a material |
| 05:38.22 |
brlcad |
there are
only a couple open source libs, ode being one of the
best |
| 05:38.24 |
SuperTaz |
though that
may all be possible, in which case it'd be quite
adequate |
| 05:38.37 |
brlcad |
it could
possibly do that, but you'd have to break up your problem domain
some, I'd imagine |
| 05:38.51 |
brlcad |
doubt the
Bullet library could handle that either |
| 05:38.55 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, and
that could defeat the purpose |
| 05:39.03 |
SuperTaz |
no...bullet
is lower-end than ODE |
| 05:39.04 |
brlcad |
though I've
seen bullet do deformation dynamics too |
| 05:39.09 |
SuperTaz |
can
it? |
| 05:39.16 |
SuperTaz |
it seems to
be lower-end than ODE |
| 05:39.21 |
brlcad |
it
is |
| 05:39.26 |
SuperTaz |
deformation
is pretty high-end |
| 05:39.37 |
brlcad |
it doesn't do
all the work for you |
| 05:40.09 |
brlcad |
effectively
hacked together, doing some of the interactions yourself letting
bullet handle the first order physics |
| 05:40.20 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 05:40.58 |
SuperTaz |
I don't
really care about lots and lots of deformation...I'm more concerned
with impact forces and material ratings |
| 05:41.15 |
SuperTaz |
which are
pretty exact |
| 05:41.46 |
brlcad |
ODE's
probably the farthest along, but they're also still mostly looking
at first order rigid body dynamics |
| 05:41.57 |
brlcad |
low energy
interations, inelastic deformations |
| 05:42.14 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 05:42.25 |
SuperTaz |
it's just not
there, yet |
| 05:44.30 |
brlcad |
they are what
I'd planned on starting with for the new modeling interface simply
because they're still the farthest along and can help set up basic
interactions (even just for "good" collision detection) |
| 05:44.44 |
brlcad |
and adding on
material interactions down the road |
| 05:44.47 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 05:45.22 |
SuperTaz |
the real
question should be what you're planning on implementing it
for |
| 05:45.41 |
SuperTaz |
you shouldn't
be implementing a physics engine just to implement a physics
engine |
| 05:45.47 |
brlcad |
actually
nearly the same purpose you mentioned would be the
driver |
| 05:45.54 |
SuperTaz |
you should be
doing it with a specific application in mind |
| 05:45.56 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 05:46.09 |
SuperTaz |
well, it'd be
a sensible part of a materials system :) |
| 05:47.05 |
brlcad |
it would be
amusing to out-perform the (closed) physics interaction codes that
hook up with brl-cad for performing V/L analyses |
| 05:48.03 |
SuperTaz |
don't know
that that would happen |
| 05:48.15 |
SuperTaz |
i'd imagine
they're pretty well optimized |
| 05:48.21 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 05:48.29 |
brlcad |
you'd think
that wouldn't you.. :) |
| 05:48.47 |
SuperTaz |
you
would |
| 05:48.54 |
SuperTaz |
doesn't mean
it's true |
| 05:48.57 |
SuperTaz |
but you'd
hope ;) |
| 05:49.47 |
brlcad |
the premiere
code that does the interaction is far from real-time, also takes
extensive prepartion to set up |
| 05:49.49 |
SuperTaz |
they used ODE
for eternal sunshine of the spotless mind?? |
| 05:50.06 |
SuperTaz |
well,
real-time = less accurate |
| 05:50.17 |
SuperTaz |
you're
talking about precision vs. speed |
| 05:50.35 |
SuperTaz |
precision is
definitely better in materials simulations |
| 05:52.05 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 05:53.29 |
brlcad |
when you care
that it's "rolled aluminum 4122" vs "hardened aluminum 5293"
compared to the sims that just care that it was "aluminum" or even
worse "some metal" material |
| 05:53.55 |
SuperTaz |
well, for
materials simulations, you always care |
| 05:53.56 |
SuperTaz |
a
lot |
| 05:54.33 |
brlcad |
depends on
what you mean by a materials simulation I'd think |
| 05:54.51 |
SuperTaz |
if you're
trying to determine what's going to happen when you drop something
from 50 feet, you care about the properties of the materials, how
they dampen force, shock, and momentum, etc. |
| 05:55.43 |
brlcad |
well sure,
that's a very specific relatively high-energy
interaction |
| 05:55.57 |
SuperTaz |
that's what I
need to simulate :) |
| 05:56.24 |
brlcad |
simulate
dropping that material from 1 inch, and the simulation becomes very
different |
| 05:56.48 |
SuperTaz |
actually,
it's harder at 1 inch than at 50 feet |
| 05:56.57 |
SuperTaz |
because you
have to be far more precise |
| 05:57.13 |
SuperTaz |
calculations
require high precision at 1" |
| 05:57.22 |
brlcad |
still,
depending on the purpose |
| 05:57.25 |
SuperTaz |
at 50', they
just have to be accurate |
| 05:57.49 |
brlcad |
there was an
implicit constraint of looking at the same order of magnitude
change |
| 05:57.59 |
SuperTaz |
heh
:) |
| 05:58.00 |
SuperTaz |
okay |
| 05:58.00 |
brlcad |
e.g. "how
much mass is retained" |
| 05:58.12 |
brlcad |
very
different between the two |
| 05:59.15 |
brlcad |
but I agree
that you can ask just as hard if not harder questions for any
interaction |
| 05:59.50 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 06:00.38 |
SuperTaz |
it should be
sufficient to estimate how much force is applied to what areas, and
whether deformation/breakage/absorption/damping threshholds are
crossed |
| 06:00.59 |
SuperTaz |
and then what
amount of energy is translated, in what direction, and so
on |
| 06:01.48 |
SuperTaz |
basically, if
I have 4 pieces of steel and dampers between them, and hit them
with something, how much will each move/rebound if they're on the
floor |
| 06:03.50 |
SuperTaz |
well, I used
the example because the ground doesn't move |
| 06:04.00 |
SuperTaz |
it's a
simpler calculation |
| 06:04.09 |
brlcad |
neither does
a 70 ton tank generally speaking ;) |
| 06:04.15 |
SuperTaz |
right |
| 06:04.16 |
brlcad |
at least not
significantly |
| 06:04.59 |
SuperTaz |
actually,
they move about the same amount, when it's a relatively low energy
application (i.e. dropping 10 lbs 50 feet onto the
stack) |
| 06:05.45 |
SuperTaz |
they
absorb/dissipate with similar characteristics |
| 06:05.56 |
SuperTaz |
it's stuff
like the human body that gets harder |
| 06:05.59 |
SuperTaz |
but you can
cheat |
| 06:06.04 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 06:06.15 |
SuperTaz |
essentially,
you can similate a ballistics gel primitive |
| 06:06.20 |
SuperTaz |
and then you
get close enough |
| 06:06.27 |
brlcad |
the
velocities are generally much different too |
| 06:06.36 |
SuperTaz |
yes |
| 06:06.38 |
SuperTaz |
oops |
| 06:06.54 |
SuperTaz |
hrmmm...it's
on opennurbs |
| 06:07.07 |
brlcad |
hah,
wow |
| 06:07.12 |
SuperTaz |
slow, huh?
:) |
| 06:07.17 |
brlcad |
quite |
| 06:07.22 |
SuperTaz |
G4 400
:) |
| 06:07.23 |
brlcad |
that a
g4? |
| 06:07.25 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 06:07.28 |
SuperTaz |
yup |
| 06:07.31 |
SuperTaz |
it's
archaic |
| 06:07.37 |
SuperTaz |
no $$ to
upgrade it |
| 06:07.48 |
SuperTaz |
would be nice
to bump it up to a faster G4 |
| 06:07.53 |
SuperTaz |
someday... |
| 06:07.53 |
brlcad |
that's
probably going to take about 2 hours from start to
finish |
| 06:08.01 |
SuperTaz |
2 hours isn't
too bad |
| 06:08.59 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 06:09.00 |
SuperTaz |
nice |
| 06:09.47 |
SuperTaz |
you working
for DoD? |
| 06:09.48 |
brlcad |
used to take
2, but opennurbs and other developments over the past year have
slowed things down |
| 06:09.59 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, I'm
sure they'd add to it |
| 06:10.39 |
brlcad |
aside from
g++ just taking way longer than gcc, in general |
| 06:11.02 |
SuperTaz |
SGI tried to
hire me when they bought Cray, to figure out how to internetwork
the two platforms |
| 06:11.04 |
brlcad |
though
opennurbs is the only bit that is affected by that |
| 06:11.31 |
SuperTaz |
it's in the
d's, now |
| 06:11.36 |
SuperTaz |
openurbs_defines.cpp |
| 06:11.46 |
SuperTaz |
detail... |
| 06:11.49 |
brlcad |
the one
technology sgi did fortunately retain/leverage
successfully |
| 06:12.14 |
SuperTaz |
yes, I didn't
go work for them |
| 06:12.19 |
brlcad |
the craylink
fiber that become numalink |
| 06:12.23 |
SuperTaz |
if I had, my
life would have been different |
| 06:12.24 |
SuperTaz |
yup |
| 06:12.32 |
SuperTaz |
that's what I
was supposed to work on, too ;) |
| 06:12.53 |
SuperTaz |
they were all
like, WTF are we supposed to do with this?!? |
| 06:13.09 |
brlcad |
=) |
| 06:13.11 |
SuperTaz |
meantime, I'd
just finished up a contract at Sun, managing a performance lab
;) |
| 06:13.32 |
SuperTaz |
dealing with
the (at the time) super-fast OC-3 and OC-12 stuff |
| 06:13.41 |
SuperTaz |
and OMG!!!
FIBER TO THE DESKTOP!!! |
| 06:14.23 |
SuperTaz |
nothing like
trying to determine why a driver is caught in a lock-spin-lock
pattern, instead of spin-lock-spin |
| 06:14.49 |
SuperTaz |
damned
drivers were slower than 100M until that got fixed |
| 06:14.56 |
brlcad |
i still often
wish apple would have bought out sgi to recover the high-end
graphics niche and supercomputing technologies sgi still
held |
| 06:15.16 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, woulda
been nice |
| 06:15.25 |
SuperTaz |
but it didn't
happen |
| 06:18.16 |
SuperTaz |
my G4 would
have a 64 meg framebuffer with a z-buffer in it |
| 06:18.24 |
SuperTaz |
and wouldn't
be a 16 meg ATI Rage PRo |
| 06:18.26 |
SuperTaz |
:P |
| 06:18.29 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 06:18.35 |
brlcad |
is that a
single? |
| 06:18.44 |
SuperTaz |
actually,
though, I know a guy who designs the ATI GPUs :) |
| 06:18.50 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:19.01 |
SuperTaz |
it's
dual |
| 06:19.05 |
SuperTaz |
the machine
is SP, though |
| 06:19.13 |
SuperTaz |
but I've got
a VGA port and a DVI port |
| 06:19.30 |
SuperTaz |
and the
damned DVI port won't do 1650 |
| 06:19.35 |
SuperTaz |
which
SUCKS |
| 06:19.50 |
brlcad |
ah, then you
could speed up your compile |
| 06:19.51 |
SuperTaz |
because I
have a Samsung 226BW |
| 06:19.56 |
brlcad |
you using -j3
? |
| 06:20.02 |
SuperTaz |
no |
| 06:20.08 |
SuperTaz |
I normally
would have |
| 06:20.20 |
SuperTaz |
but I was
just happy to get it to compile |
| 06:20.26 |
SuperTaz |
it's single
proc, single core |
| 06:20.44 |
SuperTaz |
so -j2 or -j3
at the outside are about all you can do to maximize |
| 06:21.02 |
SuperTaz |
next build
I'll do -j3 |
| 06:21.07 |
brlcad |
erm .. "it's
dual" but the machine is SP? |
| 06:21.28 |
brlcad |
it's either
got one cpu or two, which is it? :) |
| 06:23.19 |
elite01 |
HT - also
known as 1.2 CPUs :) |
| 06:23.46 |
brlcad |
the g4 didn't
have ht.. |
| 06:24.13 |
elite01 |
no idea about
macs |
| 06:25.44 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 06:25.49 |
SuperTaz |
no |
| 06:25.55 |
SuperTaz |
it's
SP |
| 06:25.58 |
SuperTaz |
single
proc |
| 06:26.03 |
SuperTaz |
it's dual
capable |
| 06:26.19 |
SuperTaz |
but I can't
afford a daughter card with two procs |
| 06:26.26 |
SuperTaz |
it's dual
headed |
| 06:26.35 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 06:26.35 |
elite01 |
ok |
| 06:26.37 |
SuperTaz |
(If I
want) |
| 06:26.55 |
brlcad |
then yeah, -j
wouldn't really do much for ya |
| 06:27.03 |
SuperTaz |
-j2
helps |
| 06:27.13 |
SuperTaz |
-j3 even,
sometimes |
| 06:28.10 |
SuperTaz |
because even
on a SP machine you can squeeze more efficiency out when one
process is io bound and the other is processor bound |
| 06:28.21 |
SuperTaz |
-j3 can help
or hinder |
| 06:28.28 |
SuperTaz |
-j4 and above
only hinder |
| 06:28.38 |
elite01 |
makes
sense |
| 06:29.07 |
brlcad |
usually use
something 1.5 to 2x whatever is available for that same
reason |
| 06:29.16 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 06:29.29 |
SuperTaz |
as I said
before, though |
| 06:29.34 |
brlcad |
particularly
for autocruft apps that have big i/o interlacing phases |
| 06:29.41 |
SuperTaz |
I just was
happy enough to get the compile even STARTED ;) |
| 06:30.03 |
SuperTaz |
opennurbs...STILL |
| 06:30.11 |
SuperTaz |
planesurface |
| 06:30.37 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 06:30.50 |
SuperTaz |
I must have
forgotten to feed the hamster before I plugged it in to the
accelerator port... |
| 06:30.58 |
SuperTaz |
too late
now |
| 06:31.09 |
SuperTaz |
brb...need to
take the dog out :) |
| 06:33.46 |
MinuteElectron |
You mean...
That I have been to bed and woken up and you were at work all that
time..... |
| 06:41.20 |
SuperTaz |
I think he
does |
| 06:41.42 |
SuperTaz |
true
dedication (or lack of home life) |
| 06:41.50 |
SuperTaz |
oh,
FINALLY |
| 06:41.59 |
SuperTaz |
linking
opennurbs |
| 06:50.50 |
SuperTaz |
ok...I'm off
ot bed |
| 06:50.54 |
SuperTaz |
night night
all :) |
| 06:51.05 |
MinuteElectron |
goodnight |
| 07:16.17 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: something like
that |
| 07:16.26 |
MinuteElectron |
:P |
| 07:17.00 |
MinuteElectron |
having a look
at some of them webpages in that text document, the design I am
making at the moment seams a bit... bland. I am making some changes
to it. |
| 07:20.21 |
brlcad |
sounds
good |
| 07:20.41 |
brlcad |
like I said,
i really do expect that will be the hardest and probably the most
time consuming part to get doing |
| 07:20.50 |
brlcad |
s/doing/going/ |
| 07:50.42 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Does
the logo need alpha transparency or can I downgrade it to
single-color transparency? |
| 08:05.23 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: If
you would like to take a look and give your views on a preliminary
outline I have done, not much yet, but I would rather restyle it
now than once I finished the entire thing - http://localhost/drupal-5.1/ |
| 08:05.33 |
MinuteElectron |
oops http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 08:19.26 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 08:49.33 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 09:24.34 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 09:58.30 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.221) |
| 10:33.46 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 10:53.36 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:36.38 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:52.27 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 12:40.24 |
poolio |
mornin' |
| 13:17.43 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 13:39.43 |
poolio |
brlcad:
sometime today it'd be sweet if you could explain a bit to me how
to get a binary tree from the internal stored CSG tree
:) |
| 14:08.34 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 14:09.47 |
brlcad |
poolio: okay,
but it'll be a while |
| 14:10.05 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright. I'm just having issues understanding how everything is
stored and how to interact with the stored trees |
| 14:10.52 |
poolio |
any source
code examples anywhere? I see the red black tree stuff, is that
what I'm looking for? |
| 14:10.56 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
busy? |
| 14:11.35 |
brlcad |
poolio: no,
but you could certainly store your tree in a rb treee |
| 14:11.38 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: a bit |
| 14:12.04 |
MinuteElectron |
Okay, whe you
get a chance your opinon on http://localhost/drupal-5.1/
would be appreciated. I have done a lot of work on it this morning,
but there is no rush. |
| 14:12.12 |
brlcad |
poolio:
probably first want to get familiar with creating csg trees (man
libwdb, look in src/proc-db and/or src/mk) |
| 14:12.21 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: localhost doesn't help me
:) |
| 14:12.34 |
MinuteElectron |
Oops,
http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 14:12.37 |
poolio |
brlcad:
thanks |
| 14:13.22 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there a way to work online with the internally stored tree? like
duplicate an entire CSG tree and the modify it internally and save
it to a new database? |
| 14:13.24 |
brlcad |
poolio: then
after you know how to create them, you can look at the code that
traverses them -- the converters are pretty boilerplate
src/conv/ |
| 14:13.40 |
poolio |
alright cool.
that should be plenty to start me off with, thanks for the
pointers |
| 14:13.40 |
brlcad |
there are at
least three different ways to traverse too |
| 14:13.51 |
MinuteElectron |
The logos on
the side are there to make the sidebar bigger for the time being,
but will be removed once I add more stuff to the
sidebar. |
| 14:13.51 |
poolio |
eek. and i'm
sure advantages and disadvantages for reach |
| 14:14.05 |
brlcad |
db_walk_tree() being one, manual
iteration, and another whose name escapes me |
| 14:15.15 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: looking like progress,
though I'd remove all the powered by spam on the panel :) .. there
should be a page dedicated that talks about the site, gives
credits |
| 14:15.39 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah, as I
said - that was just to make the sidebar longer. |
| 14:15.53 |
brlcad |
ah, missed
that |
| 14:16.01 |
MinuteElectron |
dw |
| 14:16.43 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
wasn't keeping logs, can you remind me what is going into MediaWiki
and what is going into Drupal? |
| 14:17.36 |
brlcad |
mediawiki is
all of the dynamic content, drupal is for the stuff that hooks into
a database or stuff that is fairly static |
| 14:18.24 |
brlcad |
e.g. there's
going to be a knowledge base "faq" of sorts -- that's entirely
mediawiki |
| 14:19.01 |
brlcad |
but a profile
page of premiere brl-cad users would be in a drupal
page |
| 14:19.04 |
MinuteElectron |
Okay, that
gives me a good starting point. |
| 14:20.11 |
MinuteElectron |
So as a
brainstorm: |
| 14:20.28 |
MinuteElectron |
What are the
items going to be listed on the navigation? |
| 14:20.35 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: strip out flags that
have ${variables} in them that refer to the src path |
| 14:21.00 |
MinuteElectron |
I presume you
want 'Home', 'About', 'News' |
| 14:22.29 |
MinuteElectron |
I guess that
they will all be on Drupal. |
| 14:22.37 |
MinuteElectron |
Download
would also be on Drupal |
| 14:23.31 |
MinuteElectron |
and probably
Contact (although I am not sure whether or not it would be best to
use a MediaWiki extension, Drupal extension or custom form for
that). |
| 14:23.51 |
MinuteElectron |
Then the
documentation and FAQ would be on MediaWiki. |
| 14:23.52 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: http://my.brlcad.org/sitemap.txt |
| 14:24.01 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
cool. |
| 14:24.06 |
brlcad |
subject to
change and rearrangmenet of course, but that's a start |
| 14:24.13 |
MinuteElectron |
You always
seem to be one step ahead of me :P |
| 14:24.35 |
brlcad |
been ready
for this for quite a while -- just need someone to actually do it
and take all the glory ;) |
| 14:26.03 |
brlcad |
also, be sure
to drop the register mark -- I'm not convinced the phrase itself is
registered any more, at most it's a TM |
| 14:26.28 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 14:45.21 |
poolio |
|10:18| <@
brlcad> mediawiki is all of the dynamic content, drupal is
for the stuff that hooks into a database or stuff that is fairly
static |
| 14:45.24 |
poolio |
|10:18| <@
brlcad> e.g. there's going to be a knowledge base "faq" of
sorts -- that's entirely mediawiki |
| 14:45.27 |
poolio |
|10:19| <@
brlcad> but a profile page of premiere brl-cad users would be
in a drupal page |
| 14:45.32 |
poolio |
ah sorry
guys |
| 14:45.38 |
poolio |
Middle mouse
button in dismay :\ |
| 15:29.18 |
SuperTaz |
Elapsed
compilation time: 3 hours, 33 minutes, 42 seconds |
| 15:29.29 |
SuperTaz |
that's how
long it takes on a G4 400 |
| 15:30.02 |
brlcad |
heh SuperTaz
.. |
| 15:30.29 |
SuperTaz |
sad,
huh? |
| 15:31.03 |
brlcad |
i thought my
dual 500 g4 was slow :) |
| 15:31.17 |
SuperTaz |
hahaha |
| 15:31.31 |
SuperTaz |
this thing
crawls :) |
| 15:32.19 |
poolio |
makes my
aging laptop feel speedy :) |
| 15:32.29 |
SuperTaz |
heh
:) |
| 15:33.05 |
SuperTaz |
yeah...I'm
doing make install, first |
| 15:33.47 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
taking g2asc.c and stripping it to my needs :) |
| 15:46.47 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/?q=user/register
and http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 15:47.50 |
MinuteElectron |
Please
suggest improvements, everything is working (fully tested in
Safari, IE, Firefox and Safari) except the list in the left box
when you are logged in and the tabs (no longer tabs) in
IE. |
| 15:49.04 |
SuperTaz |
install just
finished |
| 15:50.00 |
poolio |
is the color
scheme permanent? like the "solid modeling for a strong defense"
banner doesn't really fit well with the left nav bar |
| 15:50.22 |
MinuteElectron |
It can be
changed, what color do you suggest? |
| 15:50.54 |
poolio |
dunno, i'm
not a good design person, I just don't think it works
:P |
| 15:51.02 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 15:51.07 |
poolio |
You could try
just matching it to the left nav green |
| 15:51.17 |
MinuteElectron |
perhaps, one
sec |
| 15:51.53 |
poolio |
http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/themes/brlcad/gradient.jpg
<-- scale it down pleeeeease :) |
| 15:52.31 |
SuperTaz |
Minimum run
time is 3 minutes, 12 seconds |
| 15:52.31 |
SuperTaz |
Maximum run
time is 30 minutes |
| 15:52.31 |
SuperTaz |
Estimated
time is 9 minutes, 36 seconds |
| 15:52.59 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: Will
do once I am finished. |
| 15:53.53 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: look
now |
| 15:54.07 |
MinuteElectron |
I think the
colors do need to be different. |
| 15:54.18 |
MinuteElectron |
Let me try a
different one |
| 15:55.25 |
SuperTaz |
interesting
watching this thing run |
| 15:55.25 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: I don't think it's just
the colors, I think my main gripe is I want more of a banner at the
top of a page |
| 15:55.34 |
SuperTaz |
probably
doesn't help that I'm doing other things at the same time,
though |
| 15:55.42 |
poolio |
note: my
opinion doesn't matter and it is only my opinion, so don't just
change it cause I don't like it, other people may think it's
awesome :) |
| 15:56.00 |
MinuteElectron |
no, I need a
second opinon |
| 15:56.09 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: so
you want the banner to be alightly taller |
| 15:56.46 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 15:56.47 |
MinuteElectron |
*slightly
taller? |
| 15:58.38 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: look
now |
| 16:00.41 |
SuperTaz |
Abs
Fruit-Punch.local 47236.61 22868.08 27491.27 22049.86
25273.94 31281.82 29366.93 Fri Jun 29
10:59:04 CDT 2007 |
| 16:00.41 |
SuperTaz |
*vgr
Fruit-Punch.local 344.76 341.00 490.30 413.22 357.53 2.11
324.82 |
| 16:00.41 |
SuperTaz |
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# |
| 16:00.41 |
SuperTaz |
Benchmark
results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of
325 |
| 16:00.41 |
SuperTaz |
Logarithmic
VGR metric is 2.51 (natural logarithm is 5.78) |
| 16:00.43 |
SuperTaz |
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# |
| 16:01.57 |
SuperTaz |
that's a G4
400 |
| 16:02.02 |
SuperTaz |
with other
stuff going on |
| 16:02.21 |
brlcad |
heh,
nice |
| 16:03.15 |
SuperTaz |
yeah |
| 16:03.28 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: it
won't be incredibly affected by other activities on the machine as
it is measuring cpu time, wallclock measurements are stored
elsewhere |
| 16:03.36 |
brlcad |
at most, a
10% variance |
| 16:03.45 |
SuperTaz |
less than
half the speed of your dual 500 unde 10.2 |
| 16:04.01 |
SuperTaz |
but 10.4 is
known to have higher overhead in exchange for more
stability |
| 16:04.03 |
brlcad |
which is
probably about right given the lineage of those
machines |
| 16:04.12 |
SuperTaz |
could
be |
| 16:04.38 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
busy? |
| 16:04.44 |
SuperTaz |
is your dual
500 a sawtooth, gigabit ethernet, digital audio, or
quicksilver? |
| 16:15.17 |
SuperTaz |
well, mged
appears to actually run :) |
| 16:27.55 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
Please can you take a look at the website? |
| 16:29.49 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=sengun@kneazle.ethz.ch) |
| 16:54.36 |
AchiestDragon |
Benchmark
results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of
3421 |
| 16:54.38 |
AchiestDragon |
Logarithmic
VGR metric is 3.53 (natural logarithm is 8.14) |
| 16:54.49 |
SuperTaz |
what is
that? |
| 16:54.54 |
SuperTaz |
(arch) |
| 16:55.31 |
SuperTaz |
not
bad |
| 16:58.03 |
elite01 |
quad xeon and
just a gig of ram? pah! :) |
| 16:58.48 |
AchiestDragon |
for £200 GBP
im not grumbling |
| 17:00.15 |
elite01 |
uh |
| 17:00.15 |
elite01 |
ook |
| 17:00.31 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: I
suspect with the right CFLAGS, you'd actually come out at around
400MHz .. the G4 is almost right on 100 vgr's per MHz |
| 17:00.44 |
brlcad |
s/400MHz/400
vgrs/ |
| 17:02.32 |
elite01 |
where's thy
benchmark result stored? |
| 17:02.48 |
brlcad |
elite01:
hm? |
| 17:02.53 |
elite01 |
in
brlcad? |
| 17:02.59 |
elite01 |
some
file? |
| 17:03.08 |
brlcad |
don't
understand the question |
| 17:03.27 |
brlcad |
when you run
the benchmark, it outputs the results right then and there as well
as writing out to log files |
| 17:03.29 |
elite01 |
if i run the
brlcad benchmark, is the result stored in some file or just printed
to the console? |
| 17:03.30 |
SuperTaz |
you think I
could get it that high? |
| 17:04.22 |
elite01 |
can't find
the log file, just individual ones for the pictures |
| 17:04.39 |
brlcad |
elite01: the
file named "summary" has the important details |
| 17:04.41 |
brlcad |
two lines per
run |
| 17:05.19 |
brlcad |
if you are
using the latest cvs head sources, then there's also a
run-####-benchmark.log file that has the entire output that you saw
during the run written to a file |
| 17:05.43 |
elite01 |
hmm i can't
find either |
| 17:06.35 |
elite01 |
anyway, this
centrino duo seems to be pretty decent |
| 17:08.21 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 17:08.28 |
AchiestDragon |
its ony a
dual cpu xeon it shows up as 4 because of
hyperthreading |
| 17:08.37 |
elite01 |
i
see |
| 17:08.53 |
SuperTaz |
HT is
blech |
| 17:09.03 |
SuperTaz |
get one with
dual cores :) |
| 17:09.14 |
elite01 |
still, i just
have 3324.60 bogomips on each cpu (which of course precisely
describes the performance, as the name implies) |
| 17:10.45 |
brlcad |
elite01: are
you running from cvs head? |
| 17:10.52 |
brlcad |
if so, the
results are in the bench/ dir |
| 17:10.54 |
elite01 |
hmm no, just
7.10 |
| 17:13.59 |
elite01 |
Benchmark
results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of
3544 |
| 17:13.59 |
elite01 |
Logarithmic
VGR metric is 3,55 (natural logarithm is 8,17) |
| 17:14.03 |
elite01 |
look at that,
AchiestDragon :P |
| 17:14.12 |
elite01 |
on a
T2300 |
| 17:14.13 |
elite01 |
gtg,
cu |
| 18:09.21 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch) |
| 18:15.45 |
AchiestDragon |
not
bad |
| 18:16.59 |
AchiestDragon |
but as you
can see from this pic http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/desk.jpg
i have 3 dual xeon machines atm |
| 18:22.26 |
AchiestDragon |
i have been
looking at getting a dual quad core xeon mobo and chips but there a
bit overpriced atm |
| 18:23.04 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 18:27.00 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: hehe, a rack in your room..
nice |
| 18:27.08 |
brlcad |
that's gotta
be a bit noisy |
| 18:27.22 |
brlcad |
that wood
paneling? |
| 18:27.54 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 18:28.04 |
AchiestDragon |
its got a
half door it makes the systems a bit quieter , no its cardboard on
the sides the side pannels are a bit tatty |
| 18:28.21 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 18:29.26 |
dtidrow |
just ran
'make benchmark' on my Dell M90 here: 5620 |
| 18:29.54 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 18:29.58 |
dtidrow |
not too
shabby for a latop :-) |
| 18:30.06 |
AchiestDragon |
:) |
| 18:30.31 |
dtidrow |
of course,
work owns it ;-) |
| 18:31.02 |
dtidrow |
no way I
could afford a $7k laptop... |
| 18:31.17 |
brlcad |
that's pretty
sweet for a laptop |
| 18:31.30 |
dtidrow |
mbp? |
| 18:32.05 |
dtidrow |
you want
system specs? |
| 18:32.09 |
dtidrow |
10os[Linux
2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU
T7600 @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 2802MB/3288MB Free]
10disk[Total : 3.28GB/48.48GB Free] 10video[Quadro FX 2500M]
10sound[] |
| 18:34.03 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:34.09 |
dtidrow |
there's
actually 4GB of system memory, but apparently it can only access
~3.3GB of it in 32-bit mode - I'd have to switch to a 64-bit
install to get at the rest |
| 18:35.22 |
poolio |
man. i want a
new laptop now :P |
| 18:35.46 |
brlcad |
mac book
pro |
| 18:36.01 |
dtidrow |
oh, yeah -
1920x1200 flatpanel :-) |
| 18:36.15 |
brlcad |
ah, not that
one |
| 18:36.23 |
brlcad |
i won't get
that one for a few more weeks |
| 18:36.32 |
poolio |
...bastard |
| 18:36.35 |
brlcad |
i have the
one right before it now |
| 18:36.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: send
me the old one ;) |
| 18:36.49 |
dtidrow |
lol |
| 18:36.50 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 18:37.07 |
brlcad |
that new
display on those is amazing |
| 18:37.34 |
poolio |
you're gonna
kill your eyes looking at that flat panel. 1600 is bad
enough |
| 18:37.35 |
dtidrow |
wish it had
one of the mobile G80-based gfx cards, though... |
| 18:37.54 |
dtidrow |
pixels? what
pixels? ;-) |
| 18:38.53 |
dtidrow |
yeah, I've
had to up the font size on most of my apps - turning forty
sucks... |
| 18:38.56 |
AchiestDragon |
i like the
dell 2405fpw 24" lcd i have , the new 32" is even better
aparantly |
| 18:39.30 |
dtidrow |
and the
prices for those have really come down, too |
| 18:39.53 |
AchiestDragon |
they seem to
be droping each month |
| 18:40.10 |
dtidrow |
I have one at
home, but those new 24" LCD's for around $650 are really
tempting... |
| 18:40.51 |
AchiestDragon |
btw if you
still have a crt a new 19" lcd will pay for itself 2 years just by
what you save in power over a 20" crt |
| 18:41.25 |
poolio |
yeah yeah.
once I get my paycheck I might think about investing in one to take
with me to college |
| 18:43.38 |
MinuteElectron |
I sit here
with a feeling of awe. I thought getting a 19" LCD flat panel
monitor was good, yet you guys talk about 24" LCD's as if they are
mid-range. |
| 18:44.14 |
dtidrow |
they are now
:-) |
| 18:44.20 |
AchiestDragon |
yes |
| 18:44.36 |
dtidrow |
just a couple
of years ago they were $2000 or more |
| 18:44.50 |
MinuteElectron |
Heh, my
2.4Ghz processor could never compete with what you guys are
benchmarking at. |
| 18:45.28 |
brlcad |
24"?
pffft. |
| 18:45.35 |
dtidrow |
I need to try
my Athlon X2 at home and see how it does - still haven't finished
updating it |
| 18:45.52 |
dtidrow |
Mike would be
proud ;-) |
| 18:45.58 |
brlcad |
:-) |
| 18:45.58 |
AchiestDragon |
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Dell-Ultrasharp-2407WFP-24-LCD-Flat-Panel-Monitor_W0QQitemZ120134332519QQihZ002QQcategoryZ174QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 18:47.50 |
dtidrow |
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3066352&CatId=2775
- holy crap |
| 18:47.57 |
dtidrow |
wonder if
it's any good.... |
| 18:48.23 |
dtidrow |
$440 for a
24" 1920x1200??? damn! |
| 18:51.19 |
brlcad |
nice |
| 18:51.46 |
dtidrow |
yeah - wonder
what's wrong with it... ;-) |
| 18:52.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: if my
monitor "breaks" and I suddenly cannot work....
hmmm.... |
| 18:52.30 |
dtidrow |
lol |
| 18:52.34 |
brlcad |
i probably
have an old 12" b&w crt I could loan ya |
| 18:52.41 |
dtidrow |
rofl |
| 18:53.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: damn
you. :P |
| 18:53.06 |
brlcad |
g'evening
cadguy |
| 18:53.21 |
cadguy |
Top of the
day brlcad |
| 18:53.28 |
brlcad |
or afternoon
or whatever it is |
| 18:54.13 |
dtidrow |
yeah, that
was nice |
| 18:54.22 |
cadguy |
Anybody
running out to get their iPhone today? |
| 18:54.31 |
dtidrow |
pfft! |
| 18:54.50 |
AchiestDragon |
the 30" dell
ones are £815 GBP here atm |
| 18:55.44 |
SuperTaz |
I have a 22"
Samsung |
| 18:55.44 |
SuperTaz |
2ms |
| 18:55.54 |
SuperTaz |
nicest damned
monitor I've seen |
| 18:56.01 |
SuperTaz |
still gives
me wood |
| 18:56.11 |
brlcad |
cadguy:
probably tomorrow |
| 18:56.31 |
MinuteElectron |
SuperTaz:
What model? |
| 18:56.35 |
dtidrow |
SuperTaz:
which model? |
| 18:56.37 |
brlcad |
maybe later
today, but pretty busy afternoon |
| 18:56.39 |
dtidrow |
gmta |
| 18:57.02 |
SuperTaz |
it's a
226BW |
| 18:57.17 |
MinuteElectron |
I have a
940N |
| 18:57.23 |
poolio |
You guys and
your toys, share the weatlh. |
| 18:57.38 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:57.44 |
MinuteElectron |
SuperTaz: It
is the same, but only 19" and only has analog input and is not
widescreen. |
| 18:58.06 |
dtidrow |
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2881203&CatId=2775
- not bad... |
| 18:58.21 |
dtidrow |
$320 before
the rebate |
| 18:58.39 |
MinuteElectron |
<-- mine
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2487377&sku=S203-1942 |
| 18:59.07 |
SuperTaz |
so,
basically, it's a different monitor ;) |
| 18:59.22 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 18:59.45 |
MinuteElectron |
*space |
| 18:59.59 |
IriX64 |
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
(stuff albumn) 1st picture |
| 19:01.42 |
poolio |
Wow
guys |
| 19:01.56 |
poolio |
this is my
monitor:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2995&review=Asus+W3J |
| 19:02.02 |
dtidrow |
IriX64: isn't
working here |
| 19:02.12 |
IriX64 |
that
url? |
| 19:02.17 |
IriX64 |
just a
sec |
| 19:02.25 |
poolio |
IriX64: it
never works for me |
| 19:02.42 |
dtidrow |
poolio: nice
compact laptop :-) |
| 19:02.44 |
poolio |
dtidrow: xml
parsing error? |
| 19:02.49 |
IriX64 |
try
now |
| 19:02.59 |
poolio |
dtidrow: Yes
it is, the issue I have is it's a bit small and uncomfortable for 9
hour work days. |
| 19:03.07 |
dtidrow |
XML Parsing
Error: syntax error |
| 19:03.07 |
dtidrow |
Location:
http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/ |
| 19:03.07 |
dtidrow |
Line Number
3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML
4.0//EN"> |
| 19:03.07 |
dtidrow |
------------------------------------------------^ |
| 19:03.09 |
poolio |
I'm looking
to get an ultraportable for college, like a 12 or 13" |
| 19:03.26 |
IriX64 |
what are you
using? |
| 19:03.30 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:03.38 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmybrb
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:04.01 |
dtidrow |
firefox
v.1.5.0.12 |
| 19:10.12 |
IriX64 |
ftp://www3.sympatico.ca/ try
that, havoc.png |
| 19:11.16 |
cadguy |
poolio: I've
been impressed with the MacBook. Nice CPU. The only thing it
lacks is a really high performance graphics chip (they save that
for the Pro) |
| 19:11.16 |
dtidrow |
ugh - not
loading :-\ |
| 19:11.25 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 19:11.57 |
poolio |
cadguy: Yeah,
I'm not sure I want a macbook. They're a bit overpriced for what
you get and everyone has them. I'd also want something smaller and
with better battery life I think |
| 19:12.20 |
poolio |
This 14" is
really nice, and a nice GPU, the issue is just that the battery
life is short cause of the GPU and it's a bit too heavy to trek
around with. |
| 19:13.33 |
cadguy |
I've also had
good luck with Lenovo. My issues is I want something *reliable*.
The Macs and Lenovo's have been good to me. |
| 19:13.34 |
poolio |
cadguy: and
as corny as it is, I need my right mouse button, mainly for key
combos in my WM |
| 19:13.52 |
poolio |
is there a 12
or 13" lenovo? |
| 19:14.37 |
poolio |
I think with
the new macbook pros they should have just gone ahead and divided
it in two. I mean how often do you find yourself
Ctrl+Clicking...there's a reason the mighty mouse exists for the
desktop, now give us right click on the laptops |
| 19:15.25 |
dtidrow |
dang, this
laptop isn't as expensive as I thought - ~$4200 for this
configuration |
| 19:15.35 |
cadguy |
Check the
lenovo X series. |
| 19:15.38 |
poolio |
are you
kidding me? |
| 19:15.44 |
poolio |
dtidrow: that
sounds hella expensive to me |
| 19:15.54 |
dtidrow |
less than
what I thought it was |
| 19:15.57 |
cadguy |
Again, my
criteria is *reliable* |
| 19:16.04 |
dtidrow |
I was
guessing it was around $7000 |
| 19:16.27 |
poolio |
cadguy: as
opposed to? bleeding edge? |
| 19:16.32 |
cadguy |
61's start at
1215.00 US |
| 19:17.09 |
poolio |
cadguy: ugh,
they are only XGA? |
| 19:17.09 |
cadguy |
gotta go get
lunch |
| 19:17.21 |
poolio |
cadguy:
enjoy |
| 19:18.29 |
brlcad |
cadguy: is
that the same chris johnson?? |
| 19:18.39 |
brlcad |
(from the
article) |
| 19:18.41 |
MinuteElectron |
cadguy: 61"
monitor? |
| 19:18.42 |
IriX64 |
dtidrow:
check that site for rotated :) |
| 19:19.33 |
MinuteElectron |
http://82.7.33.28/public/100_1028.jpg
<-- my monitor |
| 19:19.36 |
MinuteElectron |
*computer |
| 19:20.33 |
IriX64 |
back to my
compile :) |
| 19:20.45 |
dtidrow |
IriX64: which
site? |
| 19:20.56 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: Do I spy mIRC? |
| 19:21.13 |
MinuteElectron |
No, that
would be ChatZilla. |
| 19:21.54 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: lol,
what is bad about mIRC? |
| 19:22.11 |
SuperTaz |
wrong
question |
| 19:22.15 |
poolio |
...nothing |
| 19:22.20 |
MinuteElectron |
oh, |
| 19:22.22 |
MinuteElectron |
I
see, |
| 19:22.25 |
MinuteElectron |
mIRC is
good. |
| 19:25.21 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Are
you busy? |
| 19:25.34 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: always |
| 19:25.34 |
brlcad |
what's
up? |
| 19:26.50 |
MinuteElectron |
I altered the
colors, added the tabs and added the navigation. |
| 19:27.06 |
brlcad |
I see I
see |
| 19:27.10 |
brlcad |
hmmm |
| 19:28.10 |
brlcad |
don't like
the tagline up top, but the bar color is interesting |
| 19:28.12 |
MinuteElectron |
The tabs
(although they aren't really tabs) don't work properly in IE yet
(still trying to diagnose the problem) and the box on the left has
this freaky navigation thing which I can't get to go white (when
you are logged in). |
| 19:28.35 |
MinuteElectron |
So keep the
bar, but remove the tagline? |
| 19:28.55 |
MinuteElectron |
and perhaps
make the bar a solid color? |
| 19:29.21 |
IriX64 |
it's
beautiful MinuteElectron |
| 19:29.43 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: you
really think so? wow, thanks. |
| 19:30.30 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Are
you still thinking? |
| 19:30.36 |
IriX64 |
first time
i've seen it |
| 19:31.09 |
IriX64 |
login
username a bit large but that could be a good thing :) |
| 19:31.10 |
brlcad |
dtidrow and
whomever else was following, MBP benchmark results: |
| 19:31.12 |
brlcad |
Benchmark
results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of
5937 |
| 19:31.28 |
poolio |
brlcad: are
you kidding me!?!?!? |
| 19:31.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: what
kind of crazy optimizations did you do... I've got dual 1.83s and I
only got 3k |
| 19:31.40 |
IriX64 |
what else was
going on? |
| 19:32.44 |
dtidrow |
brlcad:
MBP? |
| 19:32.49 |
brlcad |
poolio: did
you --enable-optimized? |
| 19:32.58 |
brlcad |
dtidrow: mac
book pro |
| 19:33.02 |
dtidrow |
ah |
| 19:33.05 |
IriX64 |
when mine
builds i'll try one :) |
| 19:33.18 |
dtidrow |
which
cpu? |
| 19:33.33 |
IriX64 |
me?
opteron |
| 19:33.57 |
brlcad |
Intel(R)
Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz |
| 19:34.09 |
dtidrow |
10cpu[2 x
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz w/ 4096
KB L2 Cache] |
| 19:34.17 |
dtidrow |
that one, iow
:-) |
| 19:34.18 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: update CloseTo signature
(takes a Sample (rename to ON_CurveSample or something) to return
the closes point) |
| 19:34.36 |
brlcad |
er, you have
a 2x2cpu? |
| 19:35.21 |
dtidrow |
dual core,
yes |
| 19:35.28 |
brlcad |
i.e. two dual
cores |
| 19:35.52 |
brlcad |
or a single
dual core |
| 19:36.00 |
brlcad |
the 2 x is
throwing me off |
| 19:36.02 |
dtidrow |
just the one
dual-core cpu |
| 19:36.07 |
brlcad |
okay, so same
chip |
| 19:36.54 |
brlcad |
difference is
probably in the OS and optimization options |
| 19:36.56 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 19:36.58 |
dtidrow |
the cpu
detection logic doesn't make the distinction between cores and cpu
packages |
| 19:38.17 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_curve.h
opennurbs_curve.cpp): flesh out implementation of CloseTo (generic
curve version samples the curve and uses a binary search to try and
find the closest point) |
| 19:40.18 |
dtidrow |
well, I ran
configure with --enable-optimized, did you do anything else in
addition? |
| 19:43.37 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 19:47.16 |
brlcad |
yup, a
slew |
| 19:47.22 |
brlcad |
bbl |
| 19:52.55 |
SuperTaz |
brb |
| 20:00.14 |
cadguy |
MinuteElectron: I like the faded bar on
the top. Looks cool. The green background on the left I think is
a bit shocking or out of place. Pick complementary
colors? |
| 20:00.55 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, I have
one person saying the green on the left was bad and another saying
that the green at the top (which I removed) was bad. It seams
everyone hates green. |
| 20:01.29 |
IriX64 |
i like green
reminds me i should commune with nature :) |
| 20:01.29 |
*** join/#brlcad SuperTaz
(n=taz@adsl-69-211-3-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 20:01.31 |
cadguy |
The key is
there is nothing else in the color scheme which works with the
green. |
| 20:01.51 |
MinuteElectron |
There isn't?
I thought that the gold went well... |
| 20:02.04 |
MinuteElectron |
Anyway, I
need to think of a color to replace the green. |
| 20:02.14 |
SuperTaz |
there we
go |
| 20:02.16 |
cadguy |
Everything
else is softer. The green stands out as a saturated, in-your-face
effect compared to the gradual muted tones elsewhere |
| 20:02.23 |
IriX64 |
ftp://www3.sympatico.ca
(nowthisisasystem.png) shot of mine in action :) |
| 20:02.24 |
SuperTaz |
just added an
extra 512 meg stick of RAM |
| 20:02.30 |
SuperTaz |
that helps a
bit :) |
| 20:03.13 |
cadguy |
Desaturate
the green and try it. |
| 20:03.39 |
MinuteElectron |
cadguy:
ok |
| 20:03.43 |
cadguy |
Go for a
slightly more olive look |
| 20:04.12 |
cadguy |
there's also
the blue in the logo that you could work with. |
| 20:05.23 |
cadguy |
Perhaps the
silver-grey of the right side of the eagle's head? Maybe a brown
or a blue? |
| 20:06.25 |
cadguy |
The logo
already gives a bit of the color scheme, unless you're willing to
be modifying the logo somewhat. |
| 20:06.38 |
MinuteElectron |
look
now |
| 20:07.25 |
cadguy |
Much less
jarring. Need to mod the logo so the lower green area is
"transparent" and matches the background I suppose. |
| 20:07.37 |
cadguy |
I like it
much better now. |
| 20:07.45 |
MinuteElectron |
purge your
cache please |
| 20:09.32 |
IriX64 |
forgot the
faceplate, look for faceplate.png :) |
| 20:10.20 |
cadguy |
I'd still mod
the green of the logo a little. Other than that, I think you've
got something. Still need to drop the Tag line at the
top? |
| 20:10.42 |
MinuteElectron |
brb |
| 20:12.10 |
dtidrow |
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2151961,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532
- rofl at reason #1 |
| 20:12.47 |
dtidrow |
ah - no
wonder it' |
| 20:13.20 |
dtidrow |
it's so
deserted around here - it's "iPhone Day" ;-) |
| 20:17.48 |
IriX64 |
wheres the
uPhone :) |
| 20:22.44 |
MinuteElectron |
cadguy:
removed the tagline and topbar gradient |
| 20:24.08 |
MinuteElectron |
cadguy: I am
not going to edit the logo because I didn't make it. If it is
really important I will ask brlcad - he might have the original
files. |
| 20:24.11 |
IriX64 |
should break
down and understand that mug tutorial, instead of just playinf with
the example geometry sigh. |
| 20:24.21 |
IriX64 |
errr
playing |
| 20:25.27 |
cadguy |
MunuteElectron: Looking good
now. |
| 20:25.36 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 20:25.38 |
MinuteElectron |
thxs |
| 20:26.07 |
MinuteElectron |
If only it
didn't break in IE. |
| 20:27.07 |
cadguy |
There's a
certain poetic justice there |
| 20:27.26 |
IriX64 |
how does it
break in ie i just loaded it. |
| 20:27.49 |
MinuteElectron |
IE6 |
| 20:27.59 |
IriX64 |
thats
me |
| 20:28.06 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm, which
page are you on? |
| 20:28.06 |
IriX64 |
looks
good |
| 20:28.14 |
IriX64 |
the test
page |
| 20:28.18 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: do
you have a different browseR? |
| 20:28.28 |
IriX64 |
i have firfox
too |
| 20:28.33 |
IriX64 |
firefox |
| 20:29.05 |
MinuteElectron |
try it in
there |
| 20:29.05 |
IriX64 |
just a
sec. |
| 20:29.05 |
MinuteElectron |
it looks
completely different. |
| 20:29.08 |
MinuteElectron |
then go to
the create account page in IE, the yellow bar goes
smaller |
| 20:30.30 |
IriX64 |
works here
looks just as good :) |
| 20:31.04 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 20:31.11 |
MinuteElectron |
odd |
| 20:31.14 |
MinuteElectron |
very
odd |
| 20:31.19 |
MinuteElectron |
what screen
resolution are you on? |
| 20:31.28 |
IriX64 |
create
account, just a sec ill reload ie |
| 20:31.40 |
IriX64 |
1024x768 |
| 20:32.10 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, maybe
that is the reason. |
| 20:32.30 |
MinuteElectron |
I am on
1280x1024 |
| 20:32.42 |
MinuteElectron |
Ahh well, if
no one else can replicate it I needent worry. |
| 20:33.23 |
IriX64 |
ftp://www3.sympatico.ca
ie.png |
| 20:34.37 |
MinuteElectron |
I cannot
access that server for some reason. |
| 20:35.39 |
MinuteElectron |
I get a
connection failed error. |
| 20:35.44 |
IriX64 |
really? |
| 20:35.46 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 20:35.54 |
IriX64 |
i was
updating it sorry |
| 20:36.01 |
IriX64 |
try
now |
| 20:36.10 |
IriX64 |
same server
mapped.png :) |
| 20:37.00 |
MinuteElectron |
I still can't
access it - it asks for a username, then a password then
aborts |
| 20:40.19 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: You
still there? |
| 20:42.58 |
IriX64 |
anonymous
ftp |
| 20:43.19 |
IriX64 |
use any
e-mail address i care little |
| 20:43.47 |
IriX64 |
who@who.com:) |
| 20:44.05 |
IriX64 |
waddayoucare@howdareyou.com:) |
| 20:44.12 |
dtidrow |
doesn't work
here either |
| 20:44.33 |
dtidrow |
could be a
filter of some sort on the domain, though |
| 20:44.41 |
IriX64 |
what are you
using? |
| 20:44.44 |
dtidrow |
would
commandline ftp work? |
| 20:44.49 |
IriX64 |
should |
| 20:44.54 |
IriX64 |
let me
try |
| 20:44.58 |
MinuteElectron |
I am using
WinSCP4 |
| 20:46.44 |
dtidrow |
[dtidrow@localhost ~]$ ftp
www3.sympatico.ca |
| 20:46.44 |
dtidrow |
Connected to
www3.sympatico.ca. |
| 20:46.44 |
dtidrow |
220- Access
to the Sympatico Personal Webserver |
| 20:46.44 |
dtidrow |
220- is only
available to Sympatico subscribers |
| 20:46.44 |
dtidrow |
220- |
| 20:46.45 |
dtidrow |
220- You must
be connected via Bell Sympatico |
| 20:46.47 |
dtidrow |
421 Service
not available, remote server has closed connection |
| 20:46.49 |
dtidrow |
ftp> |
| 20:46.53 |
MinuteElectron |
same
here |
| 20:47.04 |
IriX64 |
lemme call
sympatico, ill be back |
| 21:01.43 |
IriX64 |
sigh they're
looking at it sorry |
| 21:02.48 |
MinuteElectron |
dw |
| 21:04.25 |
IriX64 |
could give
you my username and password i guess (*not*) :) |
| 21:06.04 |
MinuteElectron |
:P |
| 21:08.37 |
IriX64 |
sorry should
have asked, do you want it? |
| 21:12.43 |
MinuteElectron |
want
what? |
| 21:12.52 |
IriX64 |
a dcc of
ie.png |
| 21:12.59 |
IriX64 |
dcc
send |
| 21:14.03 |
MinuteElectron |
sure |
| 21:29.39 |
IriX64 |
sending |
| 21:29.53 |
MinuteElectron |
thanks |
| 21:30.28 |
MinuteElectron |
It
failed. |
| 21:30.28 |
IriX64 |
i have no
idea :) |
| 21:30.35 |
IriX64 |
drat |
| 21:30.51 |
IriX64 |
doh, im
behind a wall :) |
| 21:31.03 |
MinuteElectron |
bah, one
sec |
| 21:31.12 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: You
have an SCP client? |
| 21:31.20 |
MinuteElectron |
*SFTP |
| 21:33.51 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: PM
--> |
| 21:45.03 |
IriX64 |
alas
no |
| 21:45.10 |
IriX64 |
i can mail it
to yoy |
| 21:45.13 |
IriX64 |
you |
| 21:57.02 |
IriX64 |
finally a
chance to do a make benchmark :) |
| 22:02.51 |
MinuteElectron |
afk |
| 22:03.22 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:03.44 |
IriX64 |
prefer
ask |
| 22:03.46 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 22:03.53 |
IriX64 |
a sad kind
:) |
| 22:05.32 |
MinuteElectron |
back |
| 22:09.08 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/AEStPI53.html
<--- benchmark on an opteron |
| 22:27.01 |
IriX64 |
thats an
optimized build with compiler optimization enabled too |
| 22:28.56 |
dtidrow |
hmmmm |
| 22:29.02 |
dtidrow |
brlcad: you
still around? |
| 22:31.17 |
IriX64 |
he answers
"frayed knot" :P |
| 22:33.11 |
IriX64 |
minuteelectron, have you considered the
stryker jpg for background on that page? |
| 22:33.21 |
MinuteElectron |
what is
that? |
| 22:33.46 |
IriX64 |
look in
screen shots and images on http://brlcad.org |
| 22:34.33 |
IriX64 |
it's my
current wallpaper |
| 22:34.44 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm, I
personally I don't think background images work very well - I can
try but don't hope for much. |
| 22:34.57 |
IriX64 |
your choice
:) |
| 22:34.58 |
MinuteElectron |
Also I would
need it in a much highe resolution. |
| 22:35.12 |
IriX64 |
ill e-mail
you one |
| 22:35.13 |
MinuteElectron |
and also it
would much up depending on your resolution. |
| 22:35.18 |
IriX64 |
if you'll
permit |
| 22:35.23 |
SuperTaz |
ermmm |
| 22:35.24 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah,
ok |
| 22:35.31 |
SuperTaz |
background
images are bad, mmkay? |
| 22:35.44 |
MinuteElectron |
background
images are best if the are a simple repeating pattern. |
| 22:35.50 |
SuperTaz |
NO! |
| 22:35.59 |
SuperTaz |
background
images are bad |
| 22:36.08 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 22:36.16 |
SuperTaz |
the ONLY case
where they're marginally okay |
| 22:36.32 |
SuperTaz |
is when
they're a watermark |
| 22:37.22 |
SuperTaz |
i.e. they're
in a static spot on the page and don't repeat |
| 22:37.25 |
SuperTaz |
and are
faint |
| 22:37.31 |
IriX64 |
sent |
| 22:37.35 |
SuperTaz |
and even that
isn't reliable cross-browser |
| 22:37.38 |
MinuteElectron |
recieved |
| 22:37.43 |
IriX64 |
sorry i don't
do pages well |
| 22:37.52 |
SuperTaz |
it's
okay |
| 22:38.02 |
IriX64 |
thanks |
| 22:38.04 |
SuperTaz |
it's really a
question of several elements |
| 22:38.18 |
SuperTaz |
good design
must have the following elements: |
| 22:38.29 |
SuperTaz |
1) it should
be easy to use |
| 22:38.43 |
SuperTaz |
2) it should
incorporate natural usage paradigms |
| 22:38.52 |
SuperTaz |
3) it should
be aesthetically pleasing |
| 22:39.04 |
SuperTaz |
4) it should
make the users feel good |
| 22:39.09 |
SuperTaz |
that's a good
design |
| 22:39.22 |
SuperTaz |
well |
| 22:39.27 |
IriX64 |
woot ogl came
up :) |
| 22:39.42 |
SuperTaz |
1.5) it
should do what the users need it to do |
| 22:40.08 |
MinuteElectron |
Does BRL-CAD
compile and run on Windows? |
| 22:40.32 |
IriX64 |
depends who
you talk too ;) |
| 22:40.52 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh
o.O |
| 22:41.37 |
MinuteElectron |
how do you
mean? |
| 22:42.24 |
SuperTaz |
I think he
means "not reliably" |
| 22:42.43 |
IriX64 |
don't put
lies in my mouth please :) |
| 22:42.46 |
SuperTaz |
I suspect you
could probably get it to work with cygwin and XFree86 |
| 22:42.49 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
ok. |
| 22:43.04 |
IriX64 |
how about
X11R6 |
| 22:43.07 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:43.07 |
SuperTaz |
but i haven't
tried |
| 22:43.15 |
AchiestDragon |
well i can
understand the 1 and 2 bit |
| 22:43.35 |
SuperTaz |
XFree86 IS
X11R6 |
| 22:43.56 |
IriX64 |
adsl you have
to remnt :) |
| 22:43.59 |
SuperTaz |
it's a
specific distribution and port of X11R6 |
| 22:44.02 |
IriX64 |
rent too
:) |
| 22:44.09 |
MinuteElectron |
dsl = damn
small linux |
| 22:44.22 |
IriX64 |
pfu=pretty
fine unix |
| 22:44.33 |
MinuteElectron |
it would
appear not |
| 22:44.39 |
AchiestDragon |
think the
best example i can think of is blender , it takes a while to learn
how to use the gui , against well the 3d editor in autotrax that
you can pickup on in minuts |
| 22:45.13 |
MinuteElectron |
How many GBs
is BRL-CAD uncompiled? |
| 22:45.38 |
IriX64 |
whos
brlcad? |
| 22:45.42 |
AchiestDragon |
28Gb on the
source download but that compressed |
| 22:45.51 |
MinuteElectron |
wtf? |
| 22:45.52 |
AchiestDragon |
mb not
gb |
| 22:45.54 |
dtidrow |
MB, you
mean |
| 22:45.55 |
MinuteElectron |
Holy
crap. |
| 22:46.05 |
MinuteElectron |
oh
28MB |
| 22:46.08 |
MinuteElectron |
that is not
much |
| 22:46.19 |
MinuteElectron |
I was
expecting something like 5GBs. |
| 22:46.23 |
IriX64 |
it is when
you're waiting for the transfer |
| 22:46.38 |
IriX64 |
use cvs much
better |
| 22:46.40 |
dtidrow |
and about
176MB unpacked |
| 22:46.49 |
AchiestDragon |
depends how
you look at it , i remeber working on systems when 4k was alot of
ram |
| 22:46.50 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm,
cool |
| 22:47.18 |
IriX64 |
my s-100 had
a whopping 64K |
| 22:47.58 |
AchiestDragon |
my nascom1
had 1k and the pdp8 i had had 4k |
| 22:48.24 |
IriX64 |
how much did
the sinclair have? |
| 22:48.25 |
SuperTaz |
I remember
when your program had to fit in 4k... |
| 22:48.43 |
IriX64 |
brlcad
wouldn't do well there :) |
| 22:48.44 |
SuperTaz |
...and just
how much people could do with 4k back then. |
| 22:48.53 |
AchiestDragon |
1k on the
zx80 and zx81 the spectrum had 16 or 48k |
| 22:48.59 |
IriX64 |
then
microsoft came along :P |
| 22:49.17 |
dtidrow |
and massively
fscked everything up.... |
| 22:49.44 |
IriX64 |
look at it
this way you get much more bytes for your money now :P |
| 22:50.24 |
AchiestDragon |
i tend to do
programming in asm and i used a lot of microcontrolers with 1 to 8k
of ram doing quite a lot for the ram size , if i programed the same
in c i would be looking at needing a chip with more than 4 times
the ram |
| 22:51.11 |
IriX64 |
not if you
have a good optimizing compiler |
| 22:51.23 |
IriX64 |
and you can
do asm in c |
| 22:52.24 |
IriX64 |
ahh optimize
for size instead of speed :) |
| 22:52.40 |
SuperTaz |
you can make
scrambled eggs in a blender |
| 22:52.52 |
SuperTaz |
does that
mean it's a good idea/ |
| 22:52.52 |
SuperTaz |
? |
| 22:53.03 |
IriX64 |
it's all
experience |
| 22:53.16 |
AchiestDragon |
yes but some
code even optimized is not as quick as if you wrote the same task
in native asm |
| 22:53.18 |
SuperTaz |
if you're
trying to work in 1-4k, C is probably not the language you REALLY
want |
| 22:53.43 |
IriX64 |
i know i'm
just yanking your chain and it's working :) |
| 22:54.01 |
SuperTaz |
with
microcontrollers, you often want ASM, or architecture-specific
development tools |
| 22:54.27 |
IriX64 |
see above,
back to testing this thing :) |
| 22:54.35 |
AchiestDragon |
like r=a+b
then call function if r=1 usualy leads to some complex c maths
lib call rather than a add forlowed by a call on
condition |
| 22:55.56 |
MinuteElectron |
lol, my code
had no validity errors whatsoever (except 5 irrelevant css
warnings) - I am amazed. |
| 22:56.32 |
AchiestDragon |
most of the
asm tools are avalabe free for most micros , the c compilers
though are usualy 3rd party but gcc will do most |
| 22:56.41 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh dear,
goodnight. |
| 23:02.18 |
AchiestDragon |
it was not so
mutch having limited ram space that was a problem but the total
lack of having any sutable storage for swap space , using papertape
as swap space just does not work |
| 23:03.03 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/vG1mWq75.html
<--- if i can't show you the pretty pictures at least I can show
you this much :) |
| 23:03.46 |
IriX64 |
does if you
feed the output of the punch to the input of the reader
:) |
| 23:04.53 |
AchiestDragon |
well not
realy , that way ends up with a fifo ,, |
| 23:05.09 |
IriX64 |
heh just
speculating |
| 23:05.26 |
IriX64 |
works quite
well for testing a model 28 |
| 23:05.34 |
IriX64 |
or 35 and
up |
| 23:05.53 |
AchiestDragon |
and you end
up with miles of used papertape |
| 23:06.22 |
IriX64 |
sometimes
necessary and they didn't recycle back then either, mores the
pity |
| 23:06.58 |
IriX64 |
sometimes
intermittent clutches were hard to find |
| 23:07.20 |
IriX64 |
break
time |
| 23:09.03 |
AchiestDragon |
at one time
the souce would come on papertape with brlcad having 176mb in the
source that would take 120,000 miles of papertape for the pdp8 i
had |
| 23:09.16 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 23:12.37 |
AchiestDragon |
and take 54
days to read in on a asr33 teletype |
| 23:13.20 |
AchiestDragon |
Timeout on
server |
| 23:13.21 |
AchiestDragon |
Connection
was to 82.7.33.28 at port 80 |
| 23:13.21 |
SuperTaz |
I think he
took it down when he went offline |
| 23:15.41 |
brlcad |
yeah,
figured.. thanks |
| 23:28.38 |
IriX64 |
I can't get
there either |
| 23:30.48 |
IriX64 |
hah a 1024
frame buffer |
| 23:30.53 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:32.47 |
IriX64 |
and bonus it
works, cyall l8r |
| 00:11.30 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:12.31 |
thing0 |
hey
all |
| 00:32.20 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:55.26 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/lsyiB710.html
<---- a useless snippet of how my compile is going
:) |
| 01:01.02 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/noX0mO67.html
<--- something i'll have to fix, you should too |
| 01:02.03 |
IriX64 |
there are 5
more in qray.c too, interested? |
| 01:02.14 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:02.40 |
IriX64 |
and
vdraw.c |
| 01:04.29 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/cc4gGp46.html
<--- these |
| 01:05.57 |
thing1 |
bacl |
| 01:05.59 |
thing1 |
*back |
| 01:16.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 01:26.18 |
IriX64 |
is Cygwin a
viable platform to run brlcad on :P |
| 01:26.54 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:28.34 |
IriX64 |
if your
browser allows it take a peek at http://irix32.spaces.live.com
(2 albumns there) |
| 01:42.24 |
AchiestDragon |
no problems
uing konquror to access that site |
| 01:47.45 |
AchiestDragon |
but firefox
definatly does not like it |
| 01:48.57 |
AchiestDragon |
msn messing
arround with xml so firefox fails i bet |
| 01:52.58 |
AchiestDragon |
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Firix32.spaces.live.com%2F |
| 01:56.54 |
*** join/#brlcad cad80
(n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:57.21 |
AchiestDragon |
and by the
errors it looks that way eather that or msn canot write web pages
,, actualy looks a bit like starting a perl script with the first
line in it beeing !python |
| 01:57.43 |
*** join/#brlcad cad17
(n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:03.07 |
*** join/#brlcad cad17
(n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:03.14 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:03.16 |
IriX64 |
no idea whats
up take it up with microsoft it's their script :) |
| 02:03.30 |
IriX64 |
neat the way
it works tho |
| 02:03.37 |
IriX64 |
to update i
mean |
| 02:04.31 |
IriX64 |
opera loads
it fine (they missed a couple :P) |
| 02:05.06 |
IriX64 |
windows
firefox also loads it go figure |
| 02:05.20 |
AchiestDragon |
well i find i
dont have problems with konquror 99% of the time where with
firefox its 75% of the time , i dont use ie unless nothing else
works |
| 02:05.43 |
IriX64 |
i use first
one that works :) |
| 02:06.13 |
IriX64 |
anybody got
an old copy of netscape? |
| 02:06.20 |
AchiestDragon |
i use
konquror as my default browser and prefer it |
| 02:06.44 |
IriX64 |
I don't
browse much anyway |
| 02:07.38 |
AchiestDragon |
what version
of netscape , and what os , think i have a few versions of it
arround someware |
| 02:07.59 |
IriX64 |
dos
netscapev1.0a |
| 02:08.05 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 02:08.11 |
AchiestDragon |
:) |
| 02:08.34 |
IriX64 |
i actually do
have trumpet around here somewhere |
| 02:09.03 |
AchiestDragon |
dont have
that , have a beta of the first linux version of it on a disk
someware though |
| 02:09.37 |
IriX64 |
someware i
like it i'll call anything i develop someware from someware labs
:) |
| 02:11.10 |
AchiestDragon |
since moving
i have managed to misplace a large portion of my old cd's still
have to get them sorted out , probablay still at the
ex's |
| 02:11.57 |
IriX64 |
i've gotta
play cable swap one day and install my 5.25" drive and recover a
lot of stuff and burn it to cd |
| 02:12.17 |
IriX64 |
silly asus
left the b drive out of their bios |
| 02:12.33 |
thing1 |
hehe |
| 02:12.58 |
IriX64 |
the a drive
supports 5.25 tho kudos to them |
| 02:13.52 |
thing1 |
:) |
| 02:14.01 |
IriX64 |
I know
microsoft didn't take out 5.25 support, if they did i'll put it
back ;) |
| 02:14.13 |
thing1 |
hehe |
| 02:14.19 |
AchiestDragon |
i only have 2
machines with a 3.5" floppy left in them , but not used a flopy in
the last 2 years |
| 02:14.50 |
IriX64 |
still uses
for them i.e sneakernet when bringing a new system up |
| 02:15.10 |
AchiestDragon |
and mostly
now its transfering cd data to dvd's |
| 02:15.35 |
AchiestDragon |
ho for
optical cube drives |
| 02:15.40 |
IriX64 |
thats
something I don't have yet (read children get it first) |
| 02:17.14 |
AchiestDragon |
well for the
cost when i put a system together may as well put a dvdr in it
rather than a cdr theres verry little cost diference
now |
| 02:17.49 |
AchiestDragon |
and for
backup well 4Gb beats 700mb per disk |
| 02:17.49 |
IriX64 |
true but i
wish dvd's could read cd's |
| 02:17.58 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 02:18.39 |
AchiestDragon |
the dvdw
drives do cd, cdr , cdrw ,dvd , dvdr and dvdrw |
| 02:19.00 |
IriX64 |
how
pricey? |
| 02:19.04 |
AchiestDragon |
<PROTECTED> |
| 02:19.37 |
AchiestDragon |
like £30 for
a good one and as low as £18 for a cheap one |
| 02:19.55 |
AchiestDragon |
a cdrw is
about £10 to £20 |
| 02:19.57 |
*** part/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:20.05 |
AchiestDragon |
GBP |
| 02:20.21 |
IriX64 |
mult by 2 for
here then? |
| 02:22.04 |
AchiestDragon |
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=571850 |
| 02:22.56 |
AchiestDragon |
that place
nolonger sells cd only drives |
| 02:26.05 |
IriX64 |
how do they
handle shipping to the "colonies" :) |
| 02:26.26 |
IriX64 |
i'm a little
slow to cut and paste unix style |
| 02:26.55 |
IriX64 |
suppose i
could just read this page :) |
| 02:27.53 |
IriX64 |
they sure
have a selection |
| 02:28.46 |
IriX64 |
ahh well one
day I too will have a dvdrw |
| 02:30.02 |
AchiestDragon |
if you make a
sails support queary they should be able to give you info about
postage , i know ther will be no vat to pay on exports but you may
have inport tax |
| 02:30.25 |
IriX64 |
and maybe
duty? |
| 02:31.17 |
AchiestDragon |
inport tax /
duty yes , depends on your local rouls on that |
| 02:31.52 |
IriX64 |
I'll try
local first but thanks for the site |
| 02:32.46 |
AchiestDragon |
the stink we
get here when inporting goods is the carriers chage a £40 fixed
rate for processing inport tax , even if theres only £10 of tax
|
| 02:33.01 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:33.06 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:33.53 |
IriX64 |
same you have
to go through a imort agent here depending where it's
from |
| 02:34.01 |
IriX64 |
err
import |
| 02:34.02 |
AchiestDragon |
so £100 about
$200usd product including shipping gets to be £157 that makes it
more like $300usd |
| 02:34.18 |
IriX64 |
i
see |
| 02:35.27 |
AchiestDragon |
it only
starts to work out better when you oder goods of over £1000 that
sort of hides the £40 charge |
| 02:36.01 |
IriX64 |
mmmm i still
would have a heart attack :) |
| 02:39.02 |
IriX64 |
I *do so like
my stryker wallpaper, thankyou aberdeen :) |
| 02:39.56 |
IriX64 |
theres a shot
of my desktop with that wallpaper on the Irix32 site brlcad albumn
i think |
| 02:40.53 |
AchiestDragon |
try
http://www.achiestdragon.org4/index.php?title=Image:Splat.jpg&oldid=128
|
| 02:41.19 |
IriX64 |
IriX32 is
only half of me, IriX64 is the whole of me, just like 42 is only
half the answer the whole answer is 84 |
| 02:41.37 |
AchiestDragon |
it gives a
nice optical illusion as you move eather towards or away from the
screen |
| 02:43.55 |
AchiestDragon |
i did that
with the gimp and kriter |
| 02:46.12 |
IriX64 |
the page
cannot be displayed :( |
| 02:46.36 |
AchiestDragon |
try
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Splat.jpg&oldid=128
opps link wrong |
| 02:48.00 |
IriX64 |
what is that?
what is that? (I call it the colorfull vortex of the mind
:)) |
| 02:48.49 |
AchiestDragon |
yes , it was
and attempt to get an image that looked something like the stress
pattens when you press on a lcd screen |
| 02:50.06 |
AchiestDragon |
i only did it
at 1600*1200 though |
| 02:56.58 |
IriX64 |
you did a
good job are you an artist? |
| 02:57.08 |
AchiestDragon |
i call it
splat i was just experimenting with the effect filters |
| 02:57.22 |
IriX64 |
with
gimp? |
| 02:57.40 |
AchiestDragon |
i do some art
when im in the mood but not as a main pastime |
| 02:58.06 |
AchiestDragon |
the gimp its
the gnome art program , and kritter is the kde one |
| 02:58.41 |
AchiestDragon |
i was doing
some beta testing on kritter when i did that one |
| 02:59.13 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/hkEbpg81.html
<--- here's what i just built :) |
| 03:00.07 |
IriX64 |
hah and it
actully works |
| 03:00.23 |
AchiestDragon |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:00.47 |
IriX64 |
just a sec
trying this thing out |
| 03:00.55 |
AchiestDragon |
k |
| 03:02.27 |
IriX64 |
what do you
mean i can upload it? :) |
| 03:03.16 |
IriX64 |
lets wreak
some havoc :P |
| 03:04.44 |
IriX64 |
tiniest frame
buffer i ever saw chortle |
| 03:05.14 |
IriX64 |
haha it
actually fit it in there |
| 03:05.37 |
IriX64 |
would you
like me to e-mail you the picture? |
| 03:06.29 |
AchiestDragon |
me
? |
| 03:06.42 |
IriX64 |
wait i'll put
it on irix32 |
| 03:08.19 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667976.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:08.44 |
IriX64 |
http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
the brlcad pix 1st pix is this new build |
| 03:13.02 |
IriX64 |
would anybody
mind if i switch to mirc it's so much easier to just double click a
url than this cut and paste stuff? |
| 03:13.32 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:14.09 |
louipc |
IriX64: what
were you using before? |
| 03:14.54 |
IriX64 |
irssi |
| 03:15.06 |
louipc |
nice |
| 03:15.17 |
IriX64 |
very just not
used to it |
| 03:16.42 |
IriX64 |
back to
playing with brlcad (I'll learn how to use it eventually, the
concept of drawing with algebra is foreign to me) |
| 03:21.30 |
IriX64 |
ive got that
irssi package for windows on my ftp server, now if only sympatico
would get their act in gear and enable anonymous logins
:) |
| 03:26.16 |
IriX64 |
windowsirssi.zip i wonder if anybody would
actually want it, oh well it's there |
| 03:29.45 |
louipc |
maybe linux
users that have to use windows at work or something |
| 03:30.18 |
louipc |
what does
sympatico have to do with anon logins? |
| 03:30.33 |
louipc |
oh they're
hosting the server huh? |
| 03:30.58 |
IriX64 |
they let me
have a spot :) |
| 03:31.36 |
IriX64 |
try the
irix32 site, brlcad albumn proving to myself rot 45 45 45 still
works |
| 03:32.37 |
louipc |
I can't view
that page. it uses non-standard XML and my browser is very picky
about it |
| 03:32.57 |
IriX64 |
where can i
upload or e-mail to you? |
| 03:33.49 |
IriX64 |
break
time |
| 03:38.56 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613910.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:47.51 |
IriX64 |
should scare
you and login with opera :P |
| 03:49.08 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon
may I upload something to that link? |
| 03:49.56 |
AchiestDragon |
on http://www.achiestdragon.org
? |
| 03:50.07 |
IriX64 |
no the plant
link |
| 03:50.35 |
IriX64 |
No file by
this name exists, you can upload it. |
| 03:50.46 |
IriX64 |
from your
url |
| 03:52.34 |
IriX64 |
does it have
to be a picture i could let you have windowsirssi.zip. |
| 03:53.09 |
AchiestDragon |
its a wiki
its part of the my site www.achiestdragon.org if you go to upload
file then yes but you need to be loged in to do that |
| 03:53.21 |
AchiestDragon |
its set for
zip and pdf files also |
| 03:53.32 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669395.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:53.39 |
IriX64 |
do you
want/need irssi.zip? |
| 03:54.11 |
AchiestDragon |
not
realy |
| 03:54.59 |
IriX64 |
something
tells me i stepped in it, sorry. |
| 03:55.14 |
AchiestDragon |
np |
| 03:55.37 |
IriX64 |
must I call
you Mr./Mam :P |
| 03:56.15 |
AchiestDragon |
did the plant
pic show ok ? |
| 03:56.28 |
IriX64 |
really there
was no pic |
| 03:56.30 |
louipc |
something is
really messed up I keep on timing out |
| 03:57.33 |
AchiestDragon |
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Plant.jpg&oldid=125 |
| 03:58.02 |
AchiestDragon |
it shows here
and its a local connecton to the server here , refreshes
ok |
| 03:58.09 |
IriX64 |
louipc try an
alternate server |
| 03:58.23 |
IriX64 |
nice and i
like the crocodile |
| 03:58.39 |
IriX64 |
is that a
collar round it's neck |
| 03:59.46 |
AchiestDragon |
best viewed
at 100% zoom on the original theres a lot of stuff in the details
like the plant roots |
| 04:00.36 |
IriX64 |
i see a lot
of things, baby crocs for example :) |
| 04:03.02 |
IriX64 |
pleasure by
the way |
| 04:03.15 |
AchiestDragon |
i did quite a
few pics trying stuff out , but the mouse is not the best input
device for it , im more used to doing pencil schetches , realy need
a good graphics tablet but at over £400 for a hafl decent one its a
bit mutch to concidder for someting that only gets occasional
use |
| 04:04.05 |
IriX64 |
true consider
a light pen device though |
| 04:05.00 |
AchiestDragon |
well i realy
need one for cad applications also |
| 04:05.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nirt.c qray.c vdraw.c): NULL != 0,
quell warnings |
| 04:05.38 |
IriX64 |
ahh i like
the maestro in the clouds in the background complete with baton
:) |
| 04:06.21 |
IriX64 |
how long did
that take you? |
| 04:06.35 |
IriX64 |
to draw i
mean |
| 04:07.08 |
AchiestDragon |
that took 2
days and did about 12hrs a day |
| 04:07.24 |
IriX64 |
ouch long
hours but looks worth the effort |
| 04:07.57 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544066.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:08.36 |
IriX64 |
whoop +2
(chortle) |
| 04:09.20 |
AchiestDragon |
well when i
split with the ex i was back at my parents for a while , so had
lots of time and not mutch that i could fill it with |
| 04:10.06 |
IriX64 |
you talent
shows man . |
| 04:10.18 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: interesting image
.. |
| 04:12.23 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
thanks for pointing out the warnings |
| 04:12.35 |
brlcad |
though... you
could have probably fixed those and provided a patch ;) |
| 04:12.35 |
IriX64 |
nice wiggler,
caught much with it ? |
| 04:12.49 |
AchiestDragon |
lol |
| 04:12.49 |
brlcad |
no, it was
harmless, but might as well clean it up |
| 04:12.57 |
AchiestDragon |
its for jtag
programming |
| 04:13.05 |
AchiestDragon |
and
debug |
| 04:13.14 |
brlcad |
s/debug/background/ |
| 04:13.27 |
AchiestDragon |
ty |
| 04:13.32 |
IriX64 |
its your
freakin picture :) |
| 04:18.07 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: i
can't sew ergo no patches from me :) |
| 04:19.21 |
brlcad |
you could
make a patch if you wanted |
| 04:19.27 |
brlcad |
cvs will do
it for you |
| 04:20.06 |
brlcad |
you edit a
file from a cvs checkout, then run "cvs diff -u filename.c >
filename.patch" |
| 04:20.12 |
IriX64 |
don't know
cvs that well, but i must admit i'm curious as to how thats
done |
| 04:20.16 |
brlcad |
that will
create a patch file named filename.patch |
| 04:20.34 |
IriX64 |
interesting |
| 04:20.36 |
brlcad |
give it a
try, edit some random file, run cvs diff -u |
| 04:20.56 |
brlcad |
a patch is
just a simple text file saying what it was before and
after |
| 04:20.57 |
IriX64 |
have to be
logged in first right |
| 04:21.09 |
IriX64 |
in proper
dir |
| 04:21.38 |
IriX64 |
i don't play
with cvs much just update and go |
| 04:24.54 |
AchiestDragon |
6am time for
a nap , nn |
| 04:26.16 |
brlcad |
IriX64: you
only log in once |
| 04:26.20 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: cya! |
| 04:27.04 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
good comments on the website.. :) |
| 04:35.56 |
IriX64 |
tried to do
midnight commander for windows, failed miserably, it's too
entrenched in the unix file hierarchy |
| 04:36.08 |
IriX64 |
sp |
| 04:38.05 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/hjPt7o36.html
<--- this tho is doable, I don't have the support files yet
though |
| 04:41.26 |
IriX64 |
should do a
dump specs . |
| 04:44.55 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754550.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:45.17 |
IriX64 |
retrieving my
patches :P |
| 04:58.19 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754183.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:08.52 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614201.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:26.29 |
IriX64 |
any pictures
done by brl-cad of the space station? I'd love to have that for
wallpaper |
| 05:27.09 |
brlcad |
IriX64: not
that I'm aware of |
| 05:27.51 |
brlcad |
the only
space model I'm aware of actually is the one of the hubble space
telescope |
| 05:28.13 |
IriX64 |
guess i'll
have to visit nasa or jet propulsion labs again :) |
| 05:28.35 |
IriX64 |
I saw the
hubble and have it i prefer the station |
| 05:31.44 |
IriX64 |
suppose i
could read the docs but it's easier to ask someone who knows, I've
never run the test suite, just what does it do (remembering that
the fastest way to get something acomplished is to give it to a
lazy slob to do) :) |
| 05:41.41 |
brlcad |
it runs a
bunch of integration tests |
| 05:41.57 |
brlcad |
makes sure
some of the basic tools work as expected |
| 05:42.07 |
brlcad |
it's not a
big deal to run it, give it a got |
| 05:42.10 |
brlcad |
s/got/go/ |
| 05:54.05 |
IriX64 |
I will soons
it finishes building again |
| 06:27.33 |
IriX64 |
asc2g running
must be almost done |
| 06:29.16 |
IriX64 |
it's
installing roughly how long should make test take? |
| 06:29.37 |
brlcad |
only takes a
couple minutes |
| 06:29.46 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 06:29.52 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
my configure line earlier today was: ./configure
--enable-optimized CFLAGS=-falign-loops=16 -falign-jumps=16
-falign-functions=16 -falign-jumps-max-skip=15
-falign-loops-max-skip=15 -malign-natural -ffast-math
-fr |
| 06:29.56 |
brlcad |
eorder-blocks
-freorder-blocks-and-partition -mtune=pentium4 |
| 06:30.04 |
brlcad |
of course,
quoting the CFLAGS var |
| 06:30.52 |
IriX64 |
heh all i use
is --enable-optimize --enable-optimizations |
| 06:31.12 |
brlcad |
those two do
the same thing |
| 06:31.19 |
IriX64 |
compiler uses
-msse and -msse2 |
| 06:31.39 |
brlcad |
it
autodetects and uses it if it works |
| 06:31.44 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 06:32.09 |
brlcad |
only matters
in the new nurbs/brep code |
| 06:32.41 |
IriX64 |
i've never
compared numbers before, was just curious what make benchmark did
:) |
| 06:45.39 |
IriX64 |
oh man
quarter of three |
| 06:49.13 |
IriX64 |
well i typed
it |
| 06:50.06 |
IriX64 |
heh
interesting |
| 06:51.54 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/yyS2PR59.html
<---- there you go |
| 06:52.34 |
IriX64 |
bedtime
nite |
| 06:57.25 |
brlcad |
again,
"success" pastings aren't useful .. i know *exactly* what it looks
like as I see it over and over and over and .... |
| 06:57.37 |
brlcad |
but I'm glad
you got it working, and succeeded |
| 07:23.41 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 07:28.14 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
Didin't catch you yesterday fully, since you have got the final
decision: What do you think of the website I made, does it need
improving and what shall I do now? http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 07:31.31 |
MinuteElectron |
I really
don't mind if you think it is complete crap, it will help me refine
my ideas. |
| 07:36.00 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 07:37.30 |
thing0 |
hey |
| 07:48.18 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 07:57.36 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:12.17 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543366.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 08:22.35 |
*** part/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:28.12 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: I really like it, but
think it does still need more too |
| 08:28.29 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah, could
you give me an idea as to what? |
| 08:28.54 |
brlcad |
i came back
several hours ago looking forward to seeing the site.. I suppose
you're running the web server off of a desktop/laptop that you shut
off? :) |
| 08:29.20 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah, sorry
about that - it is currently running on this machine. |
| 08:29.29 |
MinuteElectron |
I shut it
down for the night. |
| 08:29.42 |
brlcad |
figured as
much :) |
| 08:31.23 |
MinuteElectron |
So, any
ideas? |
| 08:35.21 |
brlcad |
yeah, I think
the layout is what I'm having trouble with at the moment .. it's a
blend of two or three styles, and the mix is making it
quirky |
| 08:35.36 |
brlcad |
tell me which
of these did you really like best? |
| 08:35.43 |
brlcad |
http://meta.theme.drupaler.net/about |
| 08:35.53 |
brlcad |
http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.giannimania.it/zengarden/sample.css |
| 08:36.17 |
brlcad |
http://haiku-os.org/ |
| 08:36.45 |
brlcad |
that's it, of
those |
| 08:37.31 |
brlcad |
not the
graphics or colors per-se, but the layout and structural
elements |
| 08:38.15 |
MinuteElectron |
I think the
first one. |
| 08:38.58 |
brlcad |
that one is
also nearly identical (structurally) to haiku's |
| 08:39.30 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 08:39.37 |
brlcad |
they both
have a "top title area" with an embedded menu |
| 08:40.02 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm, let me
try something. |
| 08:40.07 |
brlcad |
separate
panels and navigation areas |
| 08:42.33 |
MinuteElectron |
Can you give
me the link to that page of logos again please. |
| 08:42.45 |
brlcad |
I can work up
the artwork for that title area if you want, that might
help |
| 08:43.00 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 08:43.02 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/websites.html |
| 08:43.27 |
MinuteElectron |
I meant the
actual logos. |
| 08:43.36 |
MinuteElectron |
I only have
the 256x212 one |
| 08:43.38 |
brlcad |
ooh, the logo
dir |
| 08:43.42 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 08:44.01 |
brlcad |
http://brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 08:44.05 |
MinuteElectron |
thanks |
| 08:45.03 |
MinuteElectron |
So you are
going to make artwork? |
| 08:45.19 |
brlcad |
sure I can do
that |
| 08:45.27 |
MinuteElectron |
what will it
look like? |
| 08:45.40 |
brlcad |
you tell
me |
| 08:46.05 |
brlcad |
using
http://meta.theme.drupaler.net/about
and http://haiku-os.org/ as
example drivers -- their main difference is tone |
| 08:47.07 |
brlcad |
bold/strong
vs subtle/soft |
| 08:47.14 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 08:47.52 |
brlcad |
I can make
artwork for either, but the design is in your hands as to what you
need |
| 08:48.08 |
MinuteElectron |
haiku is
probably the best IMO |
| 08:48.37 |
brlcad |
they use
drupal too, btw |
| 08:48.43 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 08:49.01 |
MinuteElectron |
you could
make it use the logo on the far right, with BLR-CAD beside it, and
underneath BRL-CAD put the tagline |
| 08:49.05 |
brlcad |
though
they've almost entirely hidden that fact on the website |
| 08:49.24 |
MinuteElectron |
hehe |
| 08:49.59 |
brlcad |
their image
screenshots are actually a perfect integration of Gallery (e.g.
http://haiku-os.org/about/faq) |
| 08:52.47 |
brlcad |
so for the
top area, titlebar running across the top .. |
| 08:53.12 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 08:53.41 |
MinuteElectron |
it should
probably be sandwhiched against the top, left and right of the page
(no whitespace). |
| 08:53.50 |
brlcad |
did you want
it to be wrapped like meta or take up the entire area like
haiku |
| 08:53.59 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 08:54.18 |
MinuteElectron |
hehe |
| 08:55.01 |
brlcad |
which
quadrant for the menu, which for the title? |
| 08:55.50 |
brlcad |
meta used top
left and bottom left respectively, for example - haiku uses bottom
right and center left |
| 08:57.16 |
MinuteElectron |
I guess title
would be top left, the navigation could be either bottom right or
bottom left. if the navigation was botom right then the title would
then have to be middle left |
| 08:57.30 |
MinuteElectron |
but that
would probably look to much like haiku |
| 08:58.02 |
brlcad |
don't worry
about looking like them, more important to be effective |
| 08:58.35 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, then
center left and bottom right, alternatively top left and bottom
left. |
| 08:59.01 |
MinuteElectron |
if you are
doing bottom right then the image has to be somehow adaptable so it
looks ok in all resolutions (like the one on haiku) |
| 08:59.59 |
brlcad |
okay, last
detail is whether content area is going to be dark on light or
light on dark |
| 09:00.36 |
brlcad |
as it affects
title area color selection |
| 09:00.43 |
MinuteElectron |
I think light
on dark since (from what I have seen of the screenshots) BRL-CAD
appears to use darker colors. |
| 09:01.36 |
brlcad |
that alone
will make it look drastically different than haiku's, so more
reason to not worry about it being structurally similar
:) |
| 09:01.46 |
MinuteElectron |
:D |
| 09:02.25 |
brlcad |
that's also
"kind of" the approach taken on http://blender.org too |
| 09:08.49 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: You
are incorporating the navigation into your artwork
right? |
| 09:09.05 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:09.50 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: as a mock-up
layer |
| 09:09.56 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 09:10.03 |
brlcad |
how that
translates to css will probably be pretty different |
| 09:24.30 |
brlcad |
alrighty,
this is going to take me a while and I need to rest my hands and
eyes a bit before I get too deep :) |
| 09:24.42 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 09:24.46 |
brlcad |
should have
something later today hopefully |
| 09:25.27 |
MinuteElectron |
cool, can i
just ask quickly, where is the visual studio project in
cvs/ |
| 09:25.56 |
brlcad |
for your
layout, I'll probably have four elements so you can prepare the css
-- the title itself, the left background, the right background,
and the menu area |
| 09:26.05 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: it's in misc/ |
| 09:26.08 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 09:26.17 |
brlcad |
there are
actually two |
| 09:26.41 |
brlcad |
a vc6 project
that does a splendid job of building the libraries |
| 09:27.13 |
brlcad |
and a vc7
project that doesn't do as well, but does build about 30 of the
binaries one generally needs/wants/expects |
| 09:27.23 |
brlcad |
including the
modeller |
| 09:27.23 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 09:27.26 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 09:27.28 |
MinuteElectron |
the left and
right backgrounds are for just the navigation right? |
| 09:27.34 |
brlcad |
so unless
you're writing code, you'll probably want the vc7 |
| 09:27.48 |
brlcad |
left and
right backgrounds are so you can make it expanding |
| 09:28.15 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah, but
just for the nav right? |
| 09:28.31 |
MinuteElectron |
*header |
| 09:28.33 |
brlcad |
right |
| 09:28.37 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 09:29.51 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: will
the menu area be left or right aligned? |
| 09:30.04 |
brlcad |
thanks again
for working on this, it's going to be awesome |
| 09:30.11 |
brlcad |
you'd said
bottom left |
| 09:30.16 |
MinuteElectron |
ok,
:D |
| 09:32.00 |
brlcad |
mm.. I need a
godel escher bach style cube for C, A, D .. that'd make a great
download icon |
| 09:32.42 |
MinuteElectron |
are you
incorporating the tagline into the header? |
| 09:33.18 |
brlcad |
have to see,
there's another tagline that is often used too |
| 09:33.33 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, but will
one be incorporated at least? |
| 09:33.44 |
brlcad |
yeah,
something |
| 09:33.50 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 09:33.51 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 09:38.10 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
presume that a sidebar will still be needed. |
| 09:39.25 |
brlcad |
yeah,
probably just have different content |
| 09:39.33 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 09:44.48 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: There
is the issue of tabs, they can either go in a similar place that I
put them before (near the page title) or somewhere else (perhaps in
the sidebar). |
| 09:53.13 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Do
you have any idea when I will be able to upload Drupal and
MediaWiki onto the server you have? At this point it would be quite
useful as settings now have to be set in Drupal so it would be
useful to not have to set them twice. |
| 10:16.31 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 11:13.33 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:13.54 |
thing0 |
hey |
| 11:20.55 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543366.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 11:36.04 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:10.09 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:18.43 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 12:32.21 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 12:44.02 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 13:05.08 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 13:05.42 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: got a
spare moment? |
| 13:46.55 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 15:48.56 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:08.10 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 16:40.00 |
dtidrow |
anybody
awake? |
| 16:40.24 |
poolio |
maybe
:P |
| 16:40.29 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 16:40.51 |
dtidrow |
any idea what
the '.hidden' means in this line? |
| 16:41.00 |
dtidrow |
00040f40 l
F .text 0000004c .hidden
TkStatePrintProc |
| 16:41.14 |
poolio |
ah
asm |
| 16:41.33 |
dtidrow |
no, that's
from an objdump output |
| 16:42.54 |
dtidrow |
../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so:
undefined reference to `TkStatePrintProc' - that's an error I'm
getting in a brlcad build, even though the function seems to exist
in libtk8.5 |
| 16:43.29 |
dtidrow |
so I'm
guessing that '.hidden' is keeping the linker from seeing
it |
| 16:44.02 |
brlcad |
hrm, possibly
means it was declared static? |
| 16:44.16 |
dtidrow |
not from what
I see in the .c file |
| 16:44.35 |
dtidrow |
unless
there's something in one of the header files it uses |
| 16:45.00 |
dtidrow |
char
* |
| 16:45.01 |
dtidrow |
TkStatePrintProc( |
| 16:45.01 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.01 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.01 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.01 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.03 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.05 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.07 |
dtidrow |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.09 |
dtidrow |
{ |
| 16:45.36 |
brlcad |
where's that
from? |
| 16:45.55 |
brlcad |
tkCanvBezier
or tk sources? |
| 16:46.08 |
dtidrow |
./generic/tkInt.h:1146:MODULE_SCOPE char *
TkStatePrintProc(ClientData clientData, - aha, that
'MODULE_SCOPE' must be doing it... |
| 16:46.13 |
dtidrow |
tk |
| 16:46.25 |
dtidrow |
generic/tkUtil.c |
| 16:46.31 |
brlcad |
what version
are you on? tkCanvBezier is disabled on cvs head |
| 16:46.46 |
dtidrow |
hmmm |
| 16:46.55 |
dtidrow |
I dl'ed the
latest tarball |
| 16:46.58 |
brlcad |
in the
process of removing it |
| 16:47.00 |
brlcad |
ahh,
okay |
| 16:47.18 |
dtidrow |
they're
removing it? |
| 16:47.34 |
brlcad |
no, I"m in
the process of removing it |
| 16:47.39 |
brlcad |
it's been a
headache for years |
| 16:47.39 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 16:48.26 |
dtidrow |
what version
are you on? tkCanvBezier is disabled on cvs head - referring to
brlcad or tk? |
| 16:48.29 |
brlcad |
john anderson
implemented a bezier canvas for the 2D bezier line drawings in the
sketch editor |
| 16:49.12 |
brlcad |
that
tkCanvBezier was originally a direct enhancement to tk (meaning we
had to ship a customized tk), but was later pulled out so that we
could try to link against system tk libraries |
| 16:49.27 |
brlcad |
7.10.1 is cvs
head |
| 16:49.31 |
dtidrow |
ah |
| 16:50.22 |
brlcad |
even after
tkCanvBezier was pulled out of Tk, though, it still needs Tk
internals, private structures that you don't have access to from a
system-installed Tk (i.e. that MODULE_SCOPE changes after
installation) |
| 16:50.22 |
dtidrow |
I was
experimenting with some additional optimizations yesterday, and
kept stumbling over compile failures or other problems |
| 16:50.58 |
dtidrow |
well, I was
building tk8.5 from tarballs, so that's not a problem to
change |
| 16:51.08 |
dtidrow |
and tcl, for
that matter |
| 16:51.30 |
brlcad |
that's
actually the only thing holding up release -- to use a different
bezier line drawing approach |
| 16:52.43 |
dtidrow |
I was also
getting a problem in ifftc nevewr terminating during the build,
chewing up all the available disk |
| 16:53.21 |
dtidrow |
just from
experimenting with various optimization flags :-\ |
| 16:53.40 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 16:54.04 |
brlcad |
those can be
*really* massive functions |
| 16:54.29 |
dtidrow |
several gig
text files???? |
| 16:55.07 |
brlcad |
oh, running
ifftc itself didn't terminate? |
| 16:55.27 |
brlcad |
or compiling
the files it generates didn't |
| 16:55.44 |
dtidrow |
ifftc itself
didn't terminate |
| 16:56.06 |
dtidrow |
./configure
--enable-optimized --with-opengl --with-cflags="-march=nocona
-msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double -mrtd
-msseregparm" |
| 16:56.24 |
dtidrow |
think that's
what caused it |
| 16:57.25 |
dtidrow |
-march=nocona
could have been hosing things, I suppose |
| 16:58.11 |
dtidrow |
is there an
-march=core yet? |
| 16:59.14 |
brlcad |
hm, I get
cc1: error: invalid option 'sseregparm', if I remove that one,
ifftc crashes with a bad instruction |
| 16:59.41 |
brlcad |
ah, -mrtd
caused the bad instruction |
| 16:59.48 |
dtidrow |
ah |
| 17:00.18 |
brlcad |
hm, otherwise
worked clean with CFLAGS="-march=nocona -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387
-malign-double" |
| 17:00.29 |
dtidrow |
was just
experimenting with various options :-) |
| 17:00.33 |
dtidrow |
k, will try
that |
| 17:00.56 |
brlcad |
libfft is a
fun lib to play with since it generates the source
files |
| 17:01.24 |
brlcad |
fourier
transform kernels of various specified sizes |
| 17:01.46 |
brlcad |
having it go
to 512 or *gasp* 1024 is really interesting to see how various
compilers behave |
| 17:02.32 |
dtidrow |
thought it
looked a little funky ;-) |
| 17:02.34 |
brlcad |
can seriously
slow down a compile |
| 17:03.47 |
brlcad |
wc gives:
6255 32387 172439 irfft512.c |
| 17:03.48 |
dtidrow |
arg - my
little one is getting into all kinds of trouble now |
| 17:11.39 |
dtidrow |
can't imagine
what it would be like to build brlcad on an old
11/780.... |
| 17:12.08 |
dtidrow |
probably
would take most of a week |
| 17:12.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: support convolution
kernels up to 1024, but still only compile those up to 256 by
default since optimization can be .. intense .. on the larger
sizes |
| 17:13.47 |
dtidrow |
sweet - the
latest version of gcc has -march=core2 |
| 17:21.08 |
dtidrow |
argh! |
| 17:21.26 |
dtidrow |
/bin/sh
../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -march=pentium-m -msse3
-mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
-fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -L/usr/local/lib -pipe
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o ssampview
ssampview-spectrum.o ssampview-ssampview.o
../../src/liboptical/liboptical.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix
-ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm ../../src/libfb/libfb.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la
../../sr |
| 17:21.26 |
dtidrow |
c/libpkg/libpkg.la
-L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11
-lXi -lXext -lX11 -lGL ../../src/librt/librt.la -lc -lm
../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la
../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++
../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libbn/libbn.la
../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl
-lm -lm ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix
-ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lm -lc -lpthread |
| 17:21.31 |
dtidrow |
../../src/libpkg/libpkg.la
../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5
-lXss -lXext -lX11 -lX11 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl
-lm |
| 17:21.34 |
dtidrow |
/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/libtk8.5.a(tkStubLib.o):
In function `Tk_InitStubs': |
| 17:21.36 |
dtidrow |
/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkStubLib.c:102:
undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 17:21.39 |
dtidrow |
/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkStubLib.c:109:
undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 17:21.42 |
dtidrow |
collect2: ld
returned 1 exit status |
| 17:21.50 |
dtidrow |
oops, grabbed
one too many lines |
| 17:22.59 |
dtidrow |
fook it,
gonna unpack the tarball and try again |
| 17:25.12 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 17:25.42 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: How's
it going? |
| 17:59.54 |
IriX64 |
dtidrow:
undefined reference to tclstubsptr? was a proper tclstubs library
found at configure time? |
| 18:02.59 |
dtidrow |
I thought I
told it to build the tcl/tk version that comes with
brlcad... |
| 18:03.13 |
IriX64 |
should find
it then |
| 18:03.32 |
dtidrow |
yes, it
'should'.... |
| 18:03.37 |
IriX64 |
i installed
tcl/tk 8.5a6 , seems to work |
| 18:04.09 |
dtidrow |
with 7.10.0,
or cvs HEAD? |
| 18:04.14 |
IriX64 |
cvs |
| 18:04.52 |
dtidrow |
ah - there
are some fixes in there that aren't in 7.10.0, according to
brlcad |
| 18:05.04 |
IriX64 |
explains it
:) |
| 18:05.43 |
dtidrow |
I could have
a leftover lib hiding somewhere from tcl/tk-8.5a6.... |
| 18:05.58 |
IriX64 |
reminds me, i
should get the latest update |
| 18:05.59 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:07.00 |
dtidrow |
aha - it was
apparently still pulling in /usr/local/lib/libtcl8.5.so |
| 18:07.28 |
dtidrow |
done
:-) |
| 18:07.41 |
IriX64 |
heh good
shooting :) |
| 18:08.09 |
dtidrow |
now to see if
the extra optimization options helped at all... |
| 18:08.24 |
IriX64 |
what are you
trying for, speed? |
| 18:09.28 |
dtidrow |
yeah, just as
a test of the h/w |
| 18:09.34 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 18:10.05 |
IriX64 |
i'll march
this one as opteron then :) |
| 18:10.40 |
dtidrow |
gcc 4.2 has
core2 as an march option now |
| 18:11.00 |
IriX64 |
i'll try
it |
| 18:11.19 |
IriX64 |
maybe ill try
core4 :P |
| 18:12.42 |
dtidrow |
gotta go,
wife wants to do some shopping - bbl... |
| 18:12.48 |
IriX64 |
cya |
| 18:14.15 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/mZznOG69.html
<---last nights effort, love seeing that little bit of info
:) |
| 18:17.54 |
dtidrow |
Benchmark
results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of
6244 |
| 18:18.30 |
dtidrow |
Logarithmic
VGR metric is 3.80 (natural logarithm is 8.74) |
| 18:18.30 |
dtidrow |
that's a nice
bump :-) |
| 18:18.31 |
IriX64 |
hot, very
hot, better put another heatsink on :) |
| 18:27.16 |
IriX64 |
howd you
compile that so fast :) |
| 18:28.12 |
IriX64 |
errr
30 |
| 18:35.19 |
IriX64 |
on the bright
side ./configure only takes 6 minutes :) |
| 18:44.16 |
IriX64 |
ftp://www3.sympatico.ca allows *me to
login anonymously, would appreciate somebody trying it. |
| 18:51.20 |
IriX64 |
use a
browser |
| 19:04.00 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613836.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:04.31 |
IriX64 |
works for me,
i'm happy :) |
| 19:13.24 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613494.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:25.03 |
IriX64 |
haha my
command line ftp client can't even find it :) |
| 19:25.49 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 19:26.00 |
IriX64 |
anybody have
Konqueror? does it work? |
| 19:28.15 |
IriX64 |
so much for
work lets return to the fun stuff, brlcad is building |
| 19:29.12 |
IriX64 |
err brl-cad
:) |
| 19:29.22 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, does it
matter what Linux distribution you are running to compile
brl-cad? |
| 19:29.45 |
IriX64 |
ask those who
wrote it |
| 19:30.01 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: What
version are you using? |
| 19:30.06 |
IriX64 |
cvs |
| 19:30.13 |
MinuteElectron |
Of
Linux |
| 19:30.23 |
IriX64 |
just updated
about 45 mins ago |
| 19:30.34 |
IriX64 |
who says i'm
using linux |
| 19:30.46 |
MinuteElectron |
Sorry,
okay. |
| 19:30.54 |
IriX64 |
but i have
redhat 5.1 |
| 19:31.05 |
MinuteElectron |
ok,
:D |
| 19:31.19 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 19:31.28 |
MinuteElectron |
I will try
using Ubuntu - but first to install my wi-box on Ubuntu (or at
least try). |
| 19:31.42 |
IriX64 |
was just
going to ask |
| 19:32.03 |
IriX64 |
should get a
leopard system :) |
| 19:34.38 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:35.40 |
IriX64 |
Initializing
and backgrounding, please wait... <-----gotta get this part
working |
| 19:39.41 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, have you considered a
digitizer? |
| 19:54.27 |
brlcad |
gah, missed
him again |
| 20:12.51 |
IriX64 |
what's thew
most common image format (meaning easiest to view) for *nix
systems, can you handle png's easily? |
| 20:28.56 |
IriX64 |
ahh well a
jpg of my desktop (stryker.jpg) on ftp://www3.sympatico.ca (what i
affectionatly call "my spot") |
| 20:32.30 |
dtidrow |
arg - still
broken :-( |
| 20:32.38 |
IriX64 |
still? |
| 20:32.45 |
IriX64 |
symptom? |
| 20:32.48 |
dtidrow |
nothing's
happening |
| 20:32.57 |
IriX64 |
did it
prompt? |
| 20:33.23 |
dtidrow |
nope |
| 20:33.30 |
IriX64 |
did it
connect? |
| 20:34.01 |
poolio |
IriX64: just
post them to imageshack.us or something |
| 20:34.14 |
IriX64 |
gotta get
this working |
| 20:34.30 |
IriX64 |
what client
(remebering i said to use a browser) |
| 20:34.49 |
dtidrow |
firefox
1.5.x |
| 20:35.04 |
IriX64 |
so answer did
it connect? |
| 20:35.27 |
IriX64 |
wait i have a
firefox here |
| 20:35.28 |
dtidrow |
it says at
the bottom of the window: "Beginning FTP
transaction..." |
| 20:38.11 |
IriX64 |
should say
connected to www3.sympatico.ca and an box should come up asking for
username and password |
| 20:39.35 |
IriX64 |
still broken,
ill call didn't let me in anonymously thanks dtidrow |
| 20:39.52 |
dtidrow |
k - there was
no box either |
| 20:39.52 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-235.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:41.12 |
AchiestDragon |
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIPTEK-12000U-12-x-9-A4-GRAPHICS-TABLET-FREE-UK-DELIVRY_W0QQitemZ300125909553QQihZ020QQcategoryZ39980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 20:41.28 |
AchiestDragon |
seems good
but looks like a bit of a pain for linux support |
| 20:41.55 |
dtidrow |
brlcad: did
you see the benchmark I posted? |
| 20:46.18 |
dtidrow |
went from
5620 to 6244 |
| 20:46.57 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(i=5207211c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-237f61313b8fdc1e) |
| 20:47.20 |
MinuteElectron |
And you would
think setting up a wireless connection on Linux would be
easy... |
| 20:47.29 |
MinuteElectron |
Welcome back
Windows - I am your friend. |
| 20:48.05 |
dtidrow |
depends on
the distro and h/w |
| 20:48.31 |
MinuteElectron |
h/w? |
| 20:48.35 |
dtidrow |
took me a
little while to get it working here on FC6, but it's fine
now |
| 20:48.39 |
dtidrow |
hardware |
| 20:48.43 |
MinuteElectron |
Ahh, |
| 20:49.11 |
AchiestDragon |
suse detects
and configures for my wifi straight from the box , where with
windows i have to hunt arround for the driver disk |
| 20:49.30 |
dtidrow |
somehardware
doesn't have drivers for it because the company that sells it or
the wireless chipset won't let the info out |
| 20:49.34 |
MinuteElectron |
The wireless
stick was instantly recognised by Ubuntnu - unfourtunatley I
couldn't connect to any networks (well it said I had but the
internet wouldn't work). |
| 20:50.37 |
dtidrow |
might be a
networking issue - did you have ethernet running as
well? |
| 20:51.03 |
MinuteElectron |
I tried it
with and without, |
| 20:52.04 |
dtidrow |
nice - about
a 11% speed bump just from the extra optimization flags |
| 21:01.00 |
brlcad |
dtidrow: very
nice |
| 21:01.16 |
brlcad |
which options
did you use? |
| 21:02.08 |
brlcad |
howdy
MinuteElectron |
| 21:03.25 |
MinuteElectron |
hi |
| 21:11.48 |
dtidrow |
--enable-optimized --with-opengl
--with-cflags="-march=pentium-m -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387
-malign-double" |
| 21:12.32 |
dtidrow |
used
pentium-m instead of nocona because the Core's are supposed to be
derived from Pentium-M |
| 21:12.58 |
dtidrow |
gcc 4.2 has
-march=core2 available |
| 21:18.18 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.55 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 21:22.33 |
MinuteElectron |
Ha, |
| 21:22.43 |
MinuteElectron |
Anyway... |
| 21:22.46 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Got a
mo? |
| 21:33.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: include the configure flags in
the summary report, remove surrounding whitespace on the FLAGS
variables and only print them if they're not empty |
| 21:34.15 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: sure, what's
up |
| 21:34.21 |
MinuteElectron |
website |
| 21:34.32 |
brlcad |
still working
on the image, not quite done (got distracted with a related
icon) |
| 21:34.42 |
MinuteElectron |
heh
dw |
| 21:35.38 |
IriX64 |
dtidrow:
http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stykerbg4.jpg
there ya go :) |
| 21:35.55 |
IriX64 |
problems
being addressed |
| 21:41.56 |
IriX64 |
might as well
compare benchmarks, running mine now :) |
| 21:44.42 |
IriX64 |
RTFM=RealTimeFrameMeasurement
:P |
| 21:45.55 |
IriX64 |
should have
stopped all other jobs i guess |
| 21:46.10 |
dtidrow |
heh |
| 21:46.44 |
IriX64 |
as I said
last night, I prefer accuracy over speed, not that yours is
inaccurate :) |
| 21:48.20 |
IriX64 |
something
wrong here bldg391 always comes up 74 off by 1 0 off by
many |
| 21:48.41 |
dtidrow |
similar
here |
| 21:48.58 |
IriX64 |
no idea what
goes on there |
| 21:49.17 |
IriX64 |
suppose i
could open up the code, but I don't care :) |
| 21:49.23 |
dtidrow |
sure it's not
m35? |
| 21:49.32 |
IriX64 |
just a
sec |
| 21:49.56 |
IriX64 |
whup right i
read the wrong line |
| 21:50.00 |
dtidrow |
k |
| 21:51.34 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/kamPt390.html
<-- there you go, the whole run |
| 21:52.18 |
dtidrow |
what's the
cpu? |
| 21:53.23 |
dtidrow |
cpu speed, I
mean... |
| 21:53.56 |
dtidrow |
http://rafb.net/p/QgE7cI34.html
- my output |
| 21:57.59 |
IriX64 |
all i used
was msse3 opteron and --enable-optimized and
--enable-optimizations, I rarely play with CFLAGS= |
| 21:58.34 |
IriX64 |
now to see if
it can display geometry :) |
| 21:58.48 |
IriX64 |
whup gotta
install it first |
| 22:01.36 |
IriX64 |
cleverl
programmed into each make install is a coffee break, goona go get
some |
| 22:01.42 |
IriX64 |
cleverly
too |
| 22:06.56 |
MinuteElectron |
I *have* to
sleep, I am so tired that I accidentally reverted decent code on a
project I was working on this morning. Stayling online to download
cygwin and brl-cad from CVS. Goodnight. |
| 22:16.11 |
IriX64 |
Good
Night |
| 22:16.44 |
IriX64 |
just how much
of the world is represented here (you obviously know where I
am) |
| 22:17.49 |
IriX64 |
SuperTaz,
gotta be Australia :P |
| 22:18.41 |
MinuteElectron |
I am UK, but
shush about it. |
| 22:19.09 |
IriX64 |
got it sorry,
what are you doing not in bed :) |
| 22:19.12 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: Heh,
I didn't know you were US. |
| 22:19.29 |
IriX64 |
Canada man
the colony :) |
| 22:19.33 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: I had
to use the bathroom and came back to check if CVS checkout had
finished. |
| 22:19.39 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: Oh,
lol. |
| 22:19.56 |
IriX64 |
did cvs treat
you well |
| 22:20.24 |
MinuteElectron |
Hasn't
finished, already at 80+ MB. |
| 22:20.34 |
MinuteElectron |
I guess that
is about half way |
| 22:20.39 |
MinuteElectron |
Well, |
| 22:20.43 |
MinuteElectron |
probably not
actually. |
| 22:20.49 |
MinuteElectron |
If you
include all the .cvs files |
| 22:20.53 |
IriX64 |
maybe the
tarball would have been easier to get started i mean |
| 22:20.56 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:21.01 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, |
| 22:21.15 |
MinuteElectron |
I thought
there was some problems with the tarball. |
| 22:21.18 |
IriX64 |
just unpack
it then do the cvs thing |
| 22:21.28 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, I
see. |
| 22:21.41 |
IriX64 |
dunno how
much time youd save |
| 22:21.44 |
MinuteElectron |
Started now,
I am goin to leave my PC on all night so it doesn't
matter. |
| 22:21.53 |
IriX64 |
good
plan |
| 22:22.06 |
MinuteElectron |
Anyway, I
really do need some sleep. Laterz. |
| 22:22.11 |
IriX64 |
tell it to
compile it while you sleep :) |
| 22:22.13 |
IriX64 |
later |
| 22:51.43 |
IriX64 |
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faceplatekv5.png |
| 22:52.35 |
IriX64 |
drat, i'll
use jpg from now on |
| 22:55.08 |
MinuteElectron |
That's
better. |
| 22:57.34 |
IriX64 |
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2814/7101po4.jpg
there (latest Build) |
| 22:58.16 |
IriX64 |
I'll stop
spamming the channel now :) |
| 22:59.39 |
IriX64 |
hah i should
post the rt that just happened (yeah it works) :) |
| 23:01.51 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 23:01.54 |
MinuteElectron |
User@not-3n1jjeirhea
/cygdrive/c/brlcad |
| 23:01.55 |
MinuteElectron |
$ sh
autogen.sh |
| 23:01.57 |
MinuteElectron |
autogen.sh:
line 75: $'\r': command not found |
| 23:01.58 |
MinuteElectron |
autogen.sh:
line 93: syntax error near unexpected token `$'{\r'' |
| 23:02.00 |
MinuteElectron |
'utogen.sh:
line 93: `ident ( ) { |
| 23:02.28 |
dtidrow |
? |
| 23:02.43 |
IriX64 |
shouldn't
have to type sh |
| 23:03.04 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: even
on cygwin? |
| 23:03.16 |
IriX64 |
on mine
anyway :) |
| 23:03.24 |
MinuteElectron |
heh |
| 23:03.38 |
IriX64 |
just type
./autogen.sh |
| 23:03.49 |
dtidrow |
should work
:-) |
| 23:03.54 |
MinuteElectron |
same
error |
| 23:04.01 |
brlcad |
that's odd
(regarding autogen.sh) .. sounds like some windows/unix line ending
issue |
| 23:04.02 |
MinuteElectron |
the funny
thing is there is nothing on line 75 |
| 23:04.03 |
dtidrow |
better yet,
switch to a _real_ OS ;-) |
| 23:04.38 |
IriX64 |
you saying
mine is a figment of my imagination :) |
| 23:04.48 |
IriX64 |
try
fedora |
| 23:05.08 |
dtidrow |
MinuteElectron: what failed? |
| 23:05.10 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm, so I
switched from CRLF to LF and now it works. |
| 23:05.15 |
brlcad |
IriX64: and
RTFM does not stand for RealTimeFrameMeasurement :P |
| 23:05.27 |
dtidrow |
lol |
| 23:05.30 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 23:05.43 |
IriX64 |
ReadTheFineManual? :) |
| 23:06.02 |
MinuteElectron |
ERROR:
Unable to locate GNU Autoconf. |
| 23:06.05 |
MinuteElectron |
ha |
| 23:06.20 |
IriX64 |
www.gnu.org
compile and go :) |
| 23:06.30 |
brlcad |
IriX64: also
no |
| 23:06.33 |
dtidrow |
should be in
there somewhere |
| 23:06.48 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: I
have to compile on cygwin? |
| 23:06.50 |
IriX64 |
RayTraceFigureOfMerit? ;) |
| 23:07.19 |
IriX64 |
minuteelctron
yes |
| 23:07.23 |
brlcad |
bingo |
| 23:07.29 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 23:07.57 |
IriX64 |
I'm using
2.61 |
| 23:08.09 |
IriX64 |
automake
1.9.6 |
| 23:08.17 |
IriX64 |
libtool
1.5.22 |
| 23:09.35 |
IriX64 |
ack!! havoc
just launched a missile, where do I hide :P |
| 23:10.19 |
IriX64 |
you guys are
good, I barely understand mug.g let alone something like
havoc |
| 23:10.20 |
dtidrow |
not behind
me! |
| 23:10.50 |
MinuteElectron |
ha 'bash:
make: command not found' |
| 23:11.23 |
MinuteElectron |
this is
hilarious |
| 23:11.41 |
IriX64 |
you need to
install make |
| 23:11.46 |
MinuteElectron |
i
see |
| 23:11.54 |
IriX64 |
www.gnu.org
:P |
| 23:12.15 |
IriX64 |
www.gnu.org
and i are old friends |
| 23:12.25 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:12.52 |
IriX64 |
you'll need
gcc to (thats a feat) |
| 23:13.07 |
brlcad |
there are
cygwin packages that provide all those things |
| 23:13.26 |
IriX64 |
yes but out
of date but they'll get you started |
| 23:13.52 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: if you were on cygwin, you
probably shouldn't have pulled the zip file .. that's likely where
you're getting line ending problems from if you did |
| 23:14.08 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
didn't use the zip file. |
| 23:14.12 |
MinuteElectron |
I used
CVS. |
| 23:14.17 |
IriX64 |
he said
cvs |
| 23:14.20 |
brlcad |
ah,
interesting |
| 23:14.22 |
IriX64 |
whup sorry
:) |
| 23:15.05 |
brlcad |
is the
execute bit not set then or something? |
| 23:15.32 |
IriX64 |
use theirs to
update |
| 23:15.36 |
brlcad |
it should
tell you to run configure before it tells you to run
make |
| 23:15.44 |
brlcad |
and configure
will fail if there is no make |
| 23:15.56 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
do you mean? It was a problem with using CRLFs instead of
LF |
| 23:16.23 |
brlcad |
i mean, did
./autogen.sh work? |
| 23:16.27 |
brlcad |
s/work/run/ |
| 23:16.50 |
brlcad |
i don't mean
successfully, i mean just did it run at all |
| 23:17.18 |
MinuteElectron |
It
ran. |
| 23:17.38 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 23:17.47 |
IriX64 |
try this make
--version |
| 23:17.56 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64:
where? |
| 23:18.12 |
IriX64 |
at the
prompt |
| 23:18.41 |
MinuteElectron |
I found the
problem: ./configure failed. |
| 23:18.59 |
IriX64 |
where? |
| 23:19.00 |
MinuteElectron |
I forgot to
install gcc. |
| 23:19.06 |
MinuteElectron |
at
make |
| 23:19.09 |
dtidrow |
d'oh! |
| 23:19.19 |
IriX64 |
that'll do it
every time :) |
| 23:20.59 |
MinuteElectron |
I am getting
the hang of this. |
| 23:21.13 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:22.57 |
IriX64 |
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3617/oldbuildrw4.jpg
This is 7.8.4, trying to get 7.10 to look like this |
| 23:23.53 |
IriX64 |
now brlcad
will say it already does ;) |
| 23:24.56 |
IriX64 |
dog needs a
walk ill be back in a bit |
| 23:32.42 |
MinuteElectron |
ha |
| 23:32.44 |
MinuteElectron |
checking for
cc... no |
| 23:32.46 |
MinuteElectron |
configure:
error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH |
| 23:32.56 |
MinuteElectron |
I bet you
guys can tell I am a total n00b |
| 23:36.25 |
MinuteElectron |
wtF? |
| 23:36.51 |
MinuteElectron |
how the hell
am I meant to install bison? without it I can't install gcc and
without gcc I can't install bison. |
| 23:42.45 |
IriX64 |
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8418/musictocompilebyoi5.jpg
:P |
| 23:44.08 |
MinuteElectron |
I am being
forced to go to bed. |
| 23:44.22 |
MinuteElectron |
I *will*
compile this tomorrow morning/ |
| 23:44.32 |
IriX64 |
had to cut
the walk short, computer reported it dropped a bit, needed me to
pick it up :) |
| 23:44.32 |
MinuteElectron |
goodnight for
the last time |
| 23:44.40 |
IriX64 |
goodnight |
| 23:45.44 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:46.48 |
*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:47.41 |
RodGallowGlass |
it works?
heh |
| 23:47.47 |
*** part/#brlcad RodGallowGlass
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:13.15 |
IriX64 |
Opera, go
figure :) |
| 01:01.53 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:03.42 |
IriX64 |
who wrote
autogen.sh? |
| 01:04.47 |
IriX64 |
the header is
there but no authors name or am i just missing it? |
| 01:08.14 |
IriX64 |
just
wondering, because i'm having a problem upgrading to automake-1.10,
it parsed it as 1.1.0 so i dropped back to 1.9.6 |
| 01:16.28 |
IriX64 |
libtool i'm
running is 1.5.22 it parses fine |
| 01:22.20 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2
:) a little playing around |
| 01:23.38 |
IriX64 |
should see
what rev irssi is at i guess that ones old |
| 01:26.22 |
IriX64 |
hah
.8.11 |
| 01:34.09 |
IriX64 |
sigh no perl
again, one day i'm gonna have to tackle that |
| 01:38.26 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:41.20 |
IriX64_ |
works, might
as well put it on the server :) |
| 01:47.34 |
IriX64 |
there you go
(as if anybody wants it though they all use Mirc :P) |
| 02:04.13 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/598132
<---- man i thought you fixed it (cvs update not 3 hrs
ago) |
| 02:05.36 |
IriX64 |
mistake me
for a serious man will you :P |
| 02:06.40 |
IriX64 |
the benign
ones i won't report :) |
| 02:07.24 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:24.03 |
IriX64 |
http://www.pastebin.ca/598148
<---- could use some help here. |
| 02:24.49 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 02:28.56 |
IriX64 |
tried with
system tk lib too, problem is it comes from the same people
:) |
| 02:29.42 |
IriX64 |
8.5a5 8.5a6
happens with both |
| 02:38.33 |
IriX64 |
gotta go
guys, l8r |
| 04:22.44 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:30.35 |
IriX64 |
tried a make
distclean, tcl has no rule to do a distclean :( |
| 04:42.09 |
IriX64 |
the old build
works with Xwin32 too, hoping the same for 7.10 :) |
| 04:45.01 |
IriX64 |
www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mapped.png
have a look |
| 04:46.51 |
IriX64 |
err
http:www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 mapped.png sorry
:) |
| 04:55.55 |
brlcad |
stop
it |
| 05:00.36 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 05:11.27 |
IriX64 |
permantly? If
I get something worth sharing, is it allowed? |
| 05:12.17 |
brlcad |
you've been
going pretty much non-stop for over 4 hours |
| 05:12.35 |
brlcad |
with complete
disregard to anyone talking back and stopping after 5 |
| 05:12.50 |
IriX64 |
apologies |
| 05:33.38 |
IriX64 |
goodnight |
| 06:26.17 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 07:34.59 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 08:24.37 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
busy? |
| 08:25.10 |
MinuteElectron |
configure:
creating ./config.status |
| 08:25.12 |
MinuteElectron |
.infig.status: error: cannot find input
file: |
| 08:27.46 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you're still missing things, sounds like autogen.sh did not
complete successfully/correctly but I'd need more info to know for
sure |
| 08:28.05 |
brlcad |
run
./autogen.sh --verbose and make sure it completes
correctly |
| 08:29.28 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 08:31.04 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
winsock.h error http://paste2.org/p/4194 |
| 08:51.43 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
would be the signs of a problem |
| 09:34.14 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-077-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:26.23 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 11:28.35 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.171.166) |
| 11:47.30 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 13:54.23 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 14:10.21 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:14.17 |
*** join/#brlcad n9986
(n=nandeep@59.176.80.223) |
| 14:14.17 |
n9986 |
Hi
all |
| 14:14.35 |
*** part/#brlcad n9986
(n=nandeep@59.176.80.223) |
| 14:21.01 |
AchiestDragon |
well at least
he did not ask a question and leave before anyone got arround to
answer it like normal :) |
| 14:28.10 |
poolio |
hehe,
mornin |
| 14:28.22 |
AchiestDragon |
hi |
| 14:50.20 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 15:09.16 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 15:24.56 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 15:41.32 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 16:42.55 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: ping |
| 16:43.24 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: :) true |
| 16:43.42 |
brlcad |
so, how does
this look: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/newtitle.png |
| 16:55.38 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
back |
| 16:57.36 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: wow!
looking good |
| 16:58.45 |
brlcad |
it should
collapse down to about 1024 wide minimum with the right
css |
| 16:59.08 |
elite01 |
fine |
| 16:59.17 |
MinuteElectron |
it is
1200x600 |
| 16:59.48 |
brlcad |
right, at
1200 now in that clip, but it should compress further |
| 16:59.55 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 17:00.13 |
MinuteElectron |
you have two
images? |
| 17:01.20 |
brlcad |
the right
side should be able to move in/out almost all the way over -- where
the search and menu come together probably |
| 17:01.26 |
brlcad |
two
images? |
| 17:01.34 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, I get
it |
| 17:02.32 |
brlcad |
there are
probably 4 or 5 css-layers in there to make it work |
| 17:03.39 |
brlcad |
the logo
text, the left background, the right background, the left search,
and the right menu |
| 17:04.19 |
MinuteElectron |
the logo text
is going to be seperate? |
| 17:04.26 |
MinuteElectron |
it would be
easier to make it par tof hte image |
| 17:05.12 |
brlcad |
then it won't
compress much more than 1200 |
| 17:05.29 |
brlcad |
to get the
right side to slide under the left without seeing a hard
line |
| 17:05.53 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm,
ok |
| 17:06.00 |
brlcad |
i mean unless
you can sort it out, good luck with that :) |
| 17:06.10 |
MinuteElectron |
:D |
| 17:06.11 |
brlcad |
the css is
the hard part ;) |
| 17:06.22 |
brlcad |
there's lots
of little detail in ther |
| 17:06.25 |
MinuteElectron |
do you have
the original photoshop files so i can get the layers out of
it? |
| 17:06.30 |
brlcad |
the menu in
particular |
| 17:06.36 |
brlcad |
yeah,
sure |
| 17:06.39 |
brlcad |
hold on a
sec |
| 17:08.31 |
brlcad |
uploaded,
same dir titlebar.psd |
| 17:09.00 |
MinuteElectron |
thanks |
| 17:12.33 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: ha, I
see the Haiku layer at the bottom :P |
| 17:15.04 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 17:15.06 |
brlcad |
comparison |
| 17:15.31 |
brlcad |
and
inspiration |
| 17:31.20 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: There
is a problem with the truck. |
| 17:32.13 |
brlcad |
what's
that? |
| 17:32.24 |
MinuteElectron |
82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 17:32.27 |
MinuteElectron |
http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 17:32.38 |
MinuteElectron |
On
resolutions 1024x768 it looks good |
| 17:32.50 |
MinuteElectron |
but anything
lower then the truck gets cut. |
| 17:34.09 |
brlcad |
that's what I
was referring to about making the title text a separate
layer |
| 17:34.30 |
MinuteElectron |
oh I
see, |
| 17:34.35 |
brlcad |
makes that
line go away |
| 17:34.36 |
MinuteElectron |
working on
it |
| 17:35.01 |
brlcad |
three layers,
so the right side is above the left's background but under the
left's text |
| 17:35.56 |
brlcad |
did gimp
strip out the text layer effects or'd you do that? |
| 17:36.17 |
MinuteElectron |
it was
gimp |
| 17:36.26 |
MinuteElectron |
coudl you
send me the text in a png |
| 17:36.29 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 17:38.05 |
brlcad |
want them as
one or two? |
| 17:38.11 |
MinuteElectron |
one
please |
| 17:41.29 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/titletext.png |
| 17:41.46 |
MinuteElectron |
thanks |
| 17:44.46 |
brlcad |
sure, let me
know if you need any others |
| 17:45.02 |
brlcad |
that should
be the only blend going on if i'm not mistaken |
| 17:48.46 |
brlcad |
ah, xyz needs
it's own layer too to work right |
| 17:49.33 |
MinuteElectron |
xyz? |
| 17:49.40 |
MinuteElectron |
oh |
| 17:49.43 |
MinuteElectron |
the
graph |
| 17:50.03 |
brlcad |
the
axes |
| 17:50.08 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Can
you take a look at the thing? |
| 17:50.19 |
MinuteElectron |
It is not
improved. |
| 17:50.47 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/xyz.png |
| 17:51.54 |
brlcad |
looks like
it's getting better |
| 17:52.01 |
MinuteElectron |
not at
800x600 |
| 17:54.22 |
MinuteElectron |
xyz
added |
| 17:54.34 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
Opinon? |
| 18:01.37 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:03.41 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/titleleft.png |
| 18:04.26 |
brlcad |
with that,
you should be able to let the right side be all the way
back |
| 18:04.32 |
brlcad |
so it just
slides under |
| 18:04.44 |
poolio |
howdy
brlcad |
| 18:05.02 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:05.03 |
brlcad |
howdy
poolio |
| 18:07.01 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2
m35.jpg (it did it :)) |
| 18:07.02 |
poolio |
gorgeous day,
what are we all doing on our computers? :p |
| 18:07.23 |
IriX64 |
poolio and
why is our wallpaper a shot of a sunset :) |
| 18:07.55 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Any
chance you could remove the border on the top and left, I cannot
without b0rking the transparency. |
| 18:08.07 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: cool,
ure server fixed |
| 18:08.31 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
interesting, photon mapping I presume |
| 18:08.39 |
IriX64 |
minuteelectron yeah was trying something,
doesn't work that way :) |
| 18:08.41 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: sure |
| 18:08.44 |
IriX64 |
brlcad
yes |
| 18:08.47 |
brlcad |
you mean the
black stripe |
| 18:09.15 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 18:09.19 |
brlcad |
would like to
retain the hairline, though it certainly doesn't have to be in the
iamge |
| 18:09.26 |
MinuteElectron |
dw |
| 18:09.30 |
MinuteElectron |
I will change
the other images |
| 18:09.50 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: Is there a recent version
of the site up somewhere? |
| 18:10.08 |
MinuteElectron |
http://82.7.33.28/drupal-1.5 |
| 18:10.33 |
IriX64 |
doesn't
resolve minuteelectron |
| 18:10.39 |
brlcad |
want me to
fill it in transparent or clip the image one pixel
smaller? |
| 18:10.51 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
neither, I will do it. |
| 18:10.58 |
poolio |
it's
drupal-5.1 not 1.5 |
| 18:11.03 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 18:11.05 |
MinuteElectron |
bah |
| 18:11.14 |
brlcad |
so, what do
you want me to do with it? :) |
| 18:11.15 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 18:11.20 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
nothing |
| 18:11.29 |
brlcad |
heh,
okay |
| 18:11.52 |
poolio |
nifty
header. |
| 18:12.02 |
MinuteElectron |
look now
everyone |
| 18:12.21 |
MinuteElectron |
just not in
IE. |
| 18:12.34 |
brlcad |
awesome |
| 18:12.47 |
IriX64 |
i'm looking
in ie seems right |
| 18:12.49 |
poolio |
WOAH! Hooray
transparency! |
| 18:12.50 |
MinuteElectron |
Resizes
successfully down to 800x600 |
| 18:12.59 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: Yes,
grey blobs FTW. |
| 18:13.16 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: You
running 7? |
| 18:13.31 |
IriX64 |
6 let me try
fiefox minutelectron |
| 18:13.35 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 18:13.37 |
IriX64 |
err
firefox |
| 18:14.34 |
brlcad |
woot, that
actually lets it work all the way down to 655 :-) |
| 18:14.44 |
MinuteElectron |
:D |
| 18:14.53 |
IriX64 |
minuteelectron looks same |
| 18:15.02 |
MinuteElectron |
same? |
| 18:15.06 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 18:15.18 |
MinuteElectron |
do a
screenshot just to test please :) |
| 18:15.37 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'd
say 651, but ok :) |
| 18:15.39 |
brlcad |
poolio:
here's the end effect we're currently going for: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/newtitle.png |
| 18:15.45 |
IriX64 |
just a sec
firefox first then ie ok? |
| 18:15.48 |
brlcad |
poolio: heh,
fair nuf :) |
| 18:15.59 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 18:16.08 |
poolio |
brlcad: cool,
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the tan navigation though |
| 18:16.30 |
poolio |
and I'd float
the search box into the header instead of having it stick
down |
| 18:16.54 |
brlcad |
the color was
pulled from the eagle logo frame |
| 18:17.05 |
poolio |
Yeah, I still
think it's ugly though :) |
| 18:17.22 |
poolio |
and if you
aren't using the eagle logo in the header it doesnt really
matter |
| 18:17.27 |
AchiestDragon |
hmm |
| 18:17.46 |
poolio |
i think a
more purple-blue-grey theme would be better |
| 18:17.49 |
brlcad |
yeah, more
just a nod to it than a reason |
| 18:17.53 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 18:18.07 |
brlcad |
which matched
up nicely color-wise with the truck and the green |
| 18:18.12 |
IriX64 |
minuteelectron, my server same.jpg both in
one |
| 18:18.27 |
AchiestDragon |
not so shure
, the old logo looks a bit too military based , the new one looks
like well home made |
| 18:18.52 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: Yeah,
that is how it is meant to look. |
| 18:19.19 |
brlcad |
i'm not
entirely happy with the menu itself yet, but it's
something |
| 18:19.38 |
poolio |
brlcad: mhmm.
I'm really picky when it comes to web design :) |
| 18:20.10 |
AchiestDragon |
the truck
needs to have perspective turned on |
| 18:21.13 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: yeah, I'm actually trying
to get away from the whole military feel just a little. not
loosing the logo, but pushing it out of the spotlight a
little |
| 18:21.53 |
brlcad |
poolio:
you're more than welcome to tweak it or come up with another menu
:) |
| 18:22.00 |
AchiestDragon |
ues the old
logo as a door image on the side of the truck |
| 18:22.52 |
IriX64 |
brlcad:
perhaps a photon map shot of havoc somewhere just to show the power
inherent |
| 18:23.13 |
poolio |
brlcad: hehe.
can I do it on the clock? |
| 18:23.50 |
brlcad |
poolio: after
this summer, sure :) |
| 18:24.15 |
AchiestDragon |
yes , that i
think is the problem with the new logo the effect is shows is not
rendered it gives the impression that the output of brlcad will
look like that |
| 18:24.26 |
poolio |
brlcad: hehe,
should I keep beset as my first priority then? |
| 18:24.41 |
poolio |
brlcad: also,
is your my.brlcad.org/tmp directory supposed to be world
readable? |
| 18:25.07 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: by logo do you mean the
title text? |
| 18:25.18 |
AchiestDragon |
no the
graphics with it |
| 18:25.34 |
brlcad |
not sure what
you mean then |
| 18:25.44 |
brlcad |
I generated
all the graphics from within brl-cad |
| 18:26.18 |
poolio |
brlcad:
AHAHHA. http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/endofworld.swf |
| 18:26.37 |
brlcad |
only thing I
didn't is the menu and the BRL-CAD title text .. and I could have
done the title text too, but that would have been a bear to set up
the same lighting hilights |
| 18:26.53 |
brlcad |
poolio: yeah,
that's great |
| 18:26.53 |
AchiestDragon |
i mean the
graphis you used show the wire frame , and half transparancy ,
rather than a solid rnedered photon view in perspective |
| 18:27.43 |
brlcad |
it's a blend
of a wireframe, an hidden line render, and a regular
raytrace |
| 18:29.13 |
brlcad |
there's
actually a point for that too -- the progression of primitives on
the left to more complex read geometry on the right |
| 18:29.14 |
poolio |
brlcad: i
think I might get some work done, try to figure out how to deal
with all the different shapes and trees and what not |
| 18:29.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: what
shapes do you think should be implemented for starters?
spheres/ellipsoids, rpp, and anything else? |
| 18:31.57 |
brlcad |
conics (tgc
family), ellipsoids (ell family), planar polyhedra (arb8 family),
and the torus |
| 18:32.13 |
brlcad |
that will
give most shapes |
| 18:32.18 |
poolio |
alright cool.
is rpp part of the arb8 family? |
| 18:32.22 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 18:32.41 |
poolio |
alright, and
are there sub shapes for arb8 or is rpp just an alias for a
specialized arb8? |
| 18:33.05 |
brlcad |
sort of an
alias |
| 18:33.29 |
brlcad |
they are
stored as arb8's but are evaluated as rpps (as you can do the
ray-tracing faster that way) |
| 18:34.28 |
MinuteElectron |
That end of
the world video is hilarious. |
| 18:34.34 |
poolio |
ah Ok. Also I
might end up working with the tcl strings for the shapes, seems
like that means a lot less work for me |
| 18:35.03 |
brlcad |
just like how
the equation of an rcc (cylindrical tube) is very simple so that is
used for evaluation, whereas the general equation of that shape is
a truncated general cone (that is slightly more complex to
evaluate) |
| 18:37.51 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
have a problem. |
| 18:38.04 |
MinuteElectron |
I am about to
start doing the CSS for the navigation bar, |
| 18:38.36 |
MinuteElectron |
however the
class identifiers could change when druapl is installed for
real |
| 18:39.16 |
MinuteElectron |
and if it did
the entire navigation would be ruined |
| 18:39.27 |
brlcad |
so lets do it
for real then ;) |
| 18:39.37 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: That's why God invited
regex. |
| 18:39.40 |
brlcad |
s/lets //
;) |
| 18:39.44 |
poolio |
brlcad:
ahahhaa :D |
| 18:40.08 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio:
ok... |
| 18:40.17 |
brlcad |
i'll just
need a few bits of info from you |
| 18:40.24 |
MinuteElectron |
ok... |
| 18:41.36 |
AchiestDragon |
brlcad:
like
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Brlcad.jpg&oldid=607 |
| 18:42.25 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, nice, my current wallpaper
:) |
| 18:43.00 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon
I think I like yours better |
| 18:43.20 |
AchiestDragon |
it shows of
what can be done better than showing of the low qualaty working
view |
| 18:45.17 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, it's too small for
wallpaper, stretches out of proportion |
| 18:46.07 |
AchiestDragon |
the width of
the image is limited as it is only a section of the image on your
site so not hi res ,, |
| 18:46.23 |
AchiestDragon |
the brlcad
site that is |
| 18:50.33 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, my server....
Havoc.jpg |
| 18:51.36 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: hehe, though if you knew
the setup required for that image... it's a bit more misleading
than blended renderings effort-wise :) |
| 18:52.21 |
AchiestDragon |
yes |
| 18:52.37 |
brlcad |
personally,
i'm a bit tired of that image too :) |
| 18:52.56 |
brlcad |
though I
certainly see and show it a bit more than you probably
:) |
| 18:53.31 |
AchiestDragon |
but the
renderings used dont show of the realistic effect that brlcad can
produce , although i tend to aggree that that himage has been
arround for some time |
| 18:54.05 |
AchiestDragon |
any user
submitted image that comes close to the "realistic effect" with
good detail that could be used |
| 18:54.33 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:54.44 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, if you like mine use it
everything on that site is available |
| 18:55.06 |
poolio |
oops. |
| 18:55.27 |
AchiestDragon |
the
helecopter is good but its yet another mil type image |
| 18:55.57 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, choose something in the
example geometry or give me one :) |
| 18:56.50 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, the shuttle or nozzle would
be great but i can't find them and am not about to purchase that
program :) |
| 18:57.24 |
AchiestDragon |
had one
better , give me a few mins see if i can find the
archive |
| 18:57.31 |
IriX64 |
sure |
| 19:07.26 |
AchiestDragon |
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Alien.png&oldid=608 |
| 19:08.10 |
AchiestDragon |
it was a
blender file that i exported then imported into brlcad some time
ago |
| 19:10.58 |
AchiestDragon |
i dont have
the name of the original author of that but its gpl and if it was
to be used it would need his name for the credits |
| 19:15.18 |
brlcad |
heh, neat
picture |
| 19:16.22 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, thought you were going to
give me geometry :) |
| 19:16.34 |
AchiestDragon |
alot of the
meshes turned into arrays of triangles so it lost the curves on
the surfaces in the export |
| 19:26.26 |
AchiestDragon |
i did this in
solidworks but converted it to brlcad ... |
| 19:26.40 |
AchiestDragon |
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Rendered.png&oldid=609 |
| 19:28.35 |
AchiestDragon |
before making
this , http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/robot4.jpg
|
| 19:30.04 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, I presume the materials are
germanium and silicon :) |
| 19:32.25 |
IriX64 |
artist
too |
| 19:33.22 |
IriX64 |
mmmm 7.6.1 my
first experience was with 7.6.0 |
| 19:36.22 |
IriX64 |
TankCar.jpg |
| 19:49.26 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: hah, that's
awesome |
| 19:49.35 |
brlcad |
dues it
actually drive? |
| 19:51.00 |
AchiestDragon |
it needed
another ideler wheel at each side to stop it sheading the tracks
when turning |
| 20:02.39 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:05.51 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, they built that from
brl-cad specs? |
| 20:06.24 |
IriX64 |
heh
roborooter comes to mind (duck) |
| 20:47.32 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, maybe you can use this, it
came out black though, have to play with the
illumination |
| 20:47.37 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Geometric_Solutions_Tank_Car2.jpg |
| 21:05.26 |
AchiestDragon |
maybe ,, do
you have a raytraced output with good lighting of it |
| 21:13.48 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 21:16.35 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, how bout a regular raytrace
not photonmapped will that do, I can have one quickly? |
| 21:18.48 |
AchiestDragon |
the havoc pic
is good because it looks realistic , i gues theres little chance of
finding something rendered to that qualaty |
| 21:19.11 |
brlcad |
seeing havoc
rendered with rise would be interesting |
| 21:19.13 |
AchiestDragon |
and ok so it
took how many days to render |
| 21:19.43 |
poolio |
alright guys,
i'm gonna go play some ultimate, be back later :) |
| 21:20.33 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/GeoMetricSolutionsTankCar.png |
| 21:20.38 |
IriX64 |
days? |
| 21:21.10 |
IriX64 |
adrt doesn't
compile here (yet:)) |
| 21:27.23 |
AchiestDragon |
imeant the
stryker icv 5 days on 48 X 2.4Ghz xeon's |
| 21:28.40 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, I saw that 8trillion
rays |
| 21:29.04 |
brlcad |
those numbers
were later cut in half, fwiw |
| 21:29.29 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, lets do a bench, get brlcad
to send me the .g file :) |
| 21:29.46 |
IriX64 |
brlcad I
can't imagine that |
| 21:30.07 |
AchiestDragon |
well bot
hmged and archer dont work on this pc :( so canot try
atm |
| 21:30.46 |
IriX64 |
I haven't
played with archer yet |
| 21:31.12 |
AchiestDragon |
was hoping
archer would of been running in linux by now |
| 21:31.24 |
IriX64 |
superior to
mged? |
| 21:32.07 |
brlcad |
in some ways,
not in others |
| 21:32.23 |
IriX64 |
noted will
explore later |
| 21:32.27 |
AchiestDragon |
it looked an
easyer interface to use when i saw it last , ok so got to be about
2 years back |
| 21:32.29 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: patches welcome
;) |
| 21:32.42 |
brlcad |
I'd give just
about anyone commit access if they wanted to work on it
;) |
| 21:33.02 |
brlcad |
is mostly
build integration issues, not even archer issues for the most
part |
| 21:33.26 |
brlcad |
it's just
been low on the totem pole |
| 21:34.02 |
AchiestDragon |
i may have a
go , but need to sort out my graphic card config first ,, got to
remove one of the cards and get the system to boot without
resorting to some od config each time |
| 21:35.41 |
AchiestDragon |
theres a
matrox g200 quad head and a g550 dual head card in here , the quad
card is driving 2 lcd's and the dual just the one , but it forgets
the xconfig after power on |
| 21:36.23 |
AchiestDragon |
i have to
manualy edit it and restart x after each power on |
| 21:37.29 |
AchiestDragon |
almost at the
stage of doing a compleate reinstall , but sort of keep posponing
it as it works fine after |
| 21:40.32 |
AchiestDragon |
although
going to load brlcad on the windows box when i get time |
| 21:41.26 |
AchiestDragon |
maybe later
tonight |
| 21:41.29 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:58.18 |
IriX64 |
AciestDragon,
the windows archer i've experimented with |
| 21:58.28 |
IriX64 |
err
AchiestDragon too |
| 22:03.21 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Archer.png
<--- just messing around |
| 22:05.18 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: does
-ffast-math really make a difference, i've never experimented with
speed enhancers |
| 22:07.51 |
brlcad |
experiment |
| 22:19.25 |
AchiestDragon |
well
installed in windows |
| 22:20.08 |
AchiestDragon |
now i remeber
how bad the mged command set is to remeber |
| 22:21.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, it can
be a bear if you don't use it repeatedly |
| 22:21.50 |
brlcad |
which
wouldn't be so bad, but the help facilities are teh suck too
sometimes |
| 22:22.43 |
AchiestDragon |
well at least
i have a working verision installed on one macine
anyway |
| 22:23.45 |
AchiestDragon |
although not
in mood to trol though doc's tonight |
| 22:24.35 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mged.png
<--- this command set ;) |
| 22:27.10 |
poolio |
evenin |
| 22:27.24 |
SuperTaz |
irix |
| 22:27.36 |
SuperTaz |
what modeller
is in the chackground of the archer image? |
| 22:27.42 |
SuperTaz |
background,
even |
| 22:28.09 |
IriX64 |
modeller? |
| 22:28.25 |
SuperTaz |
with the
wireframe in it? |
| 22:28.44 |
IriX64 |
havoc and i
rt'ed it |
| 22:28.51 |
SuperTaz |
rt? |
| 22:28.56 |
IriX64 |
raytrace |
| 22:28.59 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 22:29.08 |
SuperTaz |
havoc is the
modeller? |
| 22:29.14 |
SuperTaz |
works with
brl-cad? |
| 22:29.26 |
IriX64 |
I don't know
your terms explain modeller to me |
| 22:29.46 |
SuperTaz |
that which
you created the model in |
| 22:29.59 |
SuperTaz |
the tool
behind the rendering |
| 22:30.02 |
IriX64 |
the geometry
window |
| 22:30.06 |
SuperTaz |
yes |
| 22:30.08 |
SuperTaz |
what is
that? |
| 22:30.15 |
IriX64 |
part of
archer |
| 22:30.16 |
brlcad |
that is
archer |
| 22:30.19 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 22:30.20 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 22:30.32 |
IriX64 |
sorry for the
confusion :) |
| 22:30.34 |
SuperTaz |
where'd you
get archer? |
| 22:30.54 |
IriX64 |
windows
binaries distribution;) |
| 22:31.01 |
IriX64 |
off
sourceforge |
| 22:31.05 |
*** join/#brlcad WindowsDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 22:31.10 |
SuperTaz |
oh...it's
windows only? |
| 22:31.13 |
brlcad |
archer is a
refactoring of mged written predominantly by mged's primary
author |
| 22:31.15 |
IriX64 |
yes
sorry |
| 22:31.24 |
poolio |
brlcad: who
was mged's primary author? |
| 22:31.40 |
brlcad |
he started
cleaning stuff up (starting several years ago) and after a while,
he had the foundations for a new editor |
| 22:31.47 |
brlcad |
poolio:
Bob |
| 22:31.53 |
brlcad |
Parker |
| 22:32.05 |
SuperTaz |
ahhhh |
| 22:32.05 |
SuperTaz |
it's
nice |
| 22:32.05 |
SuperTaz |
shame it's
windows only |
| 22:32.10 |
brlcad |
it's not
really windows-only |
| 22:32.15 |
SuperTaz |
oh? |
| 22:32.18 |
brlcad |
it's just
only been released in binary form on windows |
| 22:32.24 |
brlcad |
and presently
doesn't run out of CVS ;) |
| 22:32.38 |
brlcad |
but
code-wise, it'll run on windows, linux, mac, bsd, at
least |
| 22:32.51 |
SuperTaz |
oh |
| 22:33.03 |
SuperTaz |
so, in other
words...I can't run it on my mac |
| 22:33.04 |
brlcad |
just needs
some build infrastructure clean-up |
| 22:33.06 |
SuperTaz |
because it
won't build |
| 22:33.10 |
brlcad |
right |
| 22:33.16 |
brlcad |
actually, it
builds |
| 22:33.17 |
SuperTaz |
well
poop |
| 22:33.27 |
SuperTaz |
it just won't
run? |
| 22:33.28 |
brlcad |
but it will
complain at run-time about not finding some resource library it
needs |
| 22:33.31 |
brlcad |
path
problem |
| 22:33.34 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 22:33.39 |
brlcad |
looking in
the wrong place |
| 22:33.53 |
SuperTaz |
is it
fixable? |
| 22:34.31 |
brlcad |
infinitely |
| 22:34.47 |
SuperTaz |
I'm just
asking because I would like something a little smoother than
vanilla mged |
| 22:35.10 |
SuperTaz |
can't find
archer on sourceforge |
| 22:35.26 |
brlcad |
it's still
not meant to be a full-blown mged replacement, missing lots of
commands you'd eventually want |
| 22:35.51 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, but it
looks pretty decent for rapid prototyping |
| 22:36.04 |
brlcad |
bob gets to
play with it mostly in his spare time, mostly good as a viewer at
this point |
| 22:36.06 |
SuperTaz |
looks nice
and user-friendly |
| 22:36.10 |
IriX64 |
unix archer
is part of cvs |
| 22:36.10 |
SuperTaz |
oh |
| 22:36.13 |
SuperTaz |
bah |
| 22:36.13 |
brlcad |
it's a lot
more friendly |
| 22:36.29 |
brlcad |
it can do
editing, but I"m just saying that it's far from "done" |
| 22:36.32 |
SuperTaz |
I just need
something friendly to design geometry in |
| 22:36.42 |
SuperTaz |
mged is not
friendly, thus far |
| 22:36.49 |
SuperTaz |
of course,
I'm a n00b to mged |
| 22:36.53 |
IriX64 |
how
so? |
| 22:36.55 |
brlcad |
far from
replacing even a 10% of what mged does feature-wise |
| 22:37.17 |
brlcad |
though what
it does, it generally does better |
| 22:37.22 |
poolio |
SuperTaz:
mged isn't that hard to learn. Take some time and read through the
tutorials online |
| 22:37.27 |
brlcad |
really just
needs some loving care and attention |
| 22:37.34 |
SuperTaz |
I have the
tutorials |
| 22:37.46 |
SuperTaz |
I just have
to have the time to go through them |
| 22:38.01 |
IriX64 |
SuperTaz you
can create many of the standard primitives from the gui |
| 22:38.03 |
brlcad |
therein being
the crux of the problem ;) |
| 22:38.07 |
SuperTaz |
and it'd be
nice to have a nicer interface |
| 22:38.21 |
SuperTaz |
I'd take an
Alias 6 interface |
| 22:38.27 |
brlcad |
there are
other efforts also under way for a better interface |
| 22:38.31 |
SuperTaz |
or an explore
interface |
| 22:38.39 |
brlcad |
for which
archer is in the right direction, but not on the same
path |
| 22:38.47 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 22:39.07 |
SuperTaz |
even the
original softimage interface would be fine |
| 22:40.07 |
SuperTaz |
though I
wasn't a huge fan of it...I preferred alias and explore...they used
very little real estate for buttons and menus, but made it all
available via context menu (explore) or via a single mode/button
set (alias) |
| 22:40.09 |
brlcad |
it's a shame
that mged's interface is so difficult (and ugly), because
feature-wise, it does it a major disservice -- there are lots of
things you can do in brl-cad that really are better than just about
every other package |
| 22:40.26 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 22:40.33 |
SuperTaz |
I like its
maturity |
| 22:40.41 |
SuperTaz |
but the
interface is poo |
| 22:40.44 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 22:40.47 |
SuperTaz |
I've used a
bunch of modellers |
| 22:40.52 |
SuperTaz |
some nearly
as mature |
| 22:41.02 |
SuperTaz |
and they all
have better interfaces |
| 22:41.51 |
brlcad |
they all have
had entirely different development lifelines and budgets too
;) |
| 22:42.10 |
SuperTaz |
of course
:) |
| 22:42.12 |
brlcad |
it wasn't
really until brl-cad became open source that the interface became
that much of an issue |
| 22:42.13 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Test.png
<---- this took seconds |
| 22:42.27 |
SuperTaz |
but the
military and then a commercial organization developed
brl-cad |
| 22:42.47 |
brlcad |
commercial
org? |
| 22:43.08 |
WindowsDragon |
well here
goes nothing , brb on other machine soon holefully |
| 22:43.13 |
SuperTaz |
you'd think
they'd have made an interface that was at least semi-user
friendly |
| 22:43.20 |
brlcad |
it's never
been unilaterally developed by a commercial org -- closest would
have been GSI in the 90's but even their work was a
partnership |
| 22:43.25 |
SuperTaz |
brl: didn't
it it go private? |
| 22:43.30 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 22:43.37 |
SuperTaz |
oh...I
thought GSI owned it for that period |
| 22:43.46 |
SuperTaz |
under
contract to the gov't |
| 22:43.54 |
SuperTaz |
didn't
realize it was a partnership |
| 22:44.11 |
SuperTaz |
cause I
thought they made it commercially available in that
period? |
| 22:44.13 |
brlcad |
no no, it's
always remained under active development since it
started |
| 22:44.27 |
brlcad |
you might be
thinking of SURVICE Engineering |
| 22:44.46 |
brlcad |
as they
provide commercial _support_ and have done so for many
years |
| 22:44.54 |
brlcad |
you could buy
a copy or brl-cad, and it'd come from them |
| 22:45.05 |
brlcad |
but it was
the same version that we were making |
| 22:45.10 |
SuperTaz |
anyway, in
20+ years of development, you'd think it would have gotten an
intuitive view menu, a sensible default view (X Y Z
perspective) |
| 22:45.15 |
SuperTaz |
and a couple
of other things |
| 22:45.22 |
brlcad |
they just
built the binaries and put them on a disc for you |
| 22:45.27 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 22:45.36 |
SuperTaz |
I thought
they also did some active development, too |
| 22:45.37 |
brlcad |
along with
nice printed manuals and guaranteed support staff for answering
your questiongs |
| 22:46.07 |
brlcad |
they do some
development, still do even, but they participate just like anyone
else in the open source arena now |
| 22:46.25 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 22:46.30 |
SuperTaz |
well, that's
good, at least |
| 22:46.42 |
brlcad |
survice
basically paid bob to work on archer for a couple years
non-stop |
| 22:46.43 |
SuperTaz |
anyway, I'm
sure it's possible to get it to look better |
| 22:46.49 |
brlcad |
that's why it
got as far as it did |
| 22:46.49 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh...nice |
| 22:47.01 |
brlcad |
then they
needed him on some other things |
| 22:47.09 |
IriX64 |
SuperTaz, do
you want me to upload these binaries since you can't find
them? |
| 22:47.26 |
SuperTaz |
irix: won't
help me any...this is a mac :) |
| 22:47.27 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: he
meant for Mac, so probably not :) |
| 22:47.33 |
IriX64 |
ahh |
| 22:47.45 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:48.29 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: you
would think that a better interface would have cropped up, but the
domain and demands of what everyone needs *right now* always
overrule |
| 22:48.33 |
SuperTaz |
can't
remember the shell command to start x on a mac |
| 22:48.47 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: yeah,
often the reality |
| 22:49.13 |
brlcad |
that is, the
folks that pay for new development don't care if it's pretty or
even if it's easy to use, so long as it can get the job done (which
mged does splendidly most of the time) |
| 22:49.16 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
sadly, it's been proven that a good interface makes for much more
time |
| 22:49.20 |
brlcad |
open -a
X11 |
| 22:49.24 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 22:49.42 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh |
| 22:49.46 |
SuperTaz |
thanks |
| 22:49.49 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: oh,
I know .. but saying it's proven doesn't pay for the new interface
;) |
| 22:50.03 |
SuperTaz |
I think I was
thinking of a different command, but that works ;) |
| 22:50.19 |
brlcad |
no matter how
many times you say it, how many graphs and time studies you do --
they need/want other features and time is limited |
| 22:50.25 |
brlcad |
so it's up to
the open source community really |
| 22:50.44 |
brlcad |
where the
economics go out the window mostly :) |
| 22:51.01 |
SuperTaz |
and then
they'll rebundle it and make a killing ;) |
| 22:52.18 |
brlcad |
nah, at
worst, they'd be like the gforgegroup is to gforge or like redhat
is to the linux kernel -- a distributor for something that you can
get for free, available for folks that want to pay for guaranteed
support |
| 22:52.41 |
SuperTaz |
is brl-cad
gpl? |
| 22:52.44 |
SuperTaz |
thought it
was bsd? |
| 22:52.47 |
brlcad |
lgpl and
bsd |
| 22:52.54 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 22:53.02 |
brlcad |
most of the
code is lgpl |
| 22:53.05 |
SuperTaz |
so they can
sell it for as much as they'd like :) |
| 22:53.26 |
SuperTaz |
and add their
own customizations around it :) |
| 22:53.27 |
brlcad |
build
infrastructure, docs, data resources, and some other portions like
the benchmark suite are bsd |
| 22:53.39 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 22:54.01 |
brlcad |
that they
could and so could you |
| 22:54.36 |
brlcad |
they wouldn't
do anything in bad faith, though, they're a pretty good
group |
| 22:55.19 |
brlcad |
and they'd
sure as heck not want to risk any bad relationship with the gov't,
they know who their daddy is |
| 22:55.26 |
SuperTaz |
okay...slowly
fighting my way into the gui |
| 22:55.45 |
SuperTaz |
*nod* |
| 22:55.58 |
SuperTaz |
and yes, I
know I could take it and spruce up the gui and sell it |
| 22:56.21 |
SuperTaz |
if I did
that, though, a) I'd need some customers and b) I'd still
contribute back ;) |
| 22:56.57 |
IriX64 |
SuperTaz, I
just plat want my code, maybe you can make a killing with it
:) |
| 22:57.02 |
brlcad |
you'd be
obligated for most of the code, only your enhancements that weren't
integrated would be yours to share or not |
| 22:57.02 |
IriX64 |
play not
plat |
| 22:57.54 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad:
yeah |
| 22:58.01 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: not
that I'm about to do so :) |
| 22:58.45 |
SuperTaz |
brlcad: but
you can always do things like build a plugin harness that's lgpl,
and then create plugins that are closed source or restricted
distribution, etc. |
| 22:59.30 |
SuperTaz |
i.e. make the
plugins GPL and distribute a commercial version of them as well
(optimized and/or otherwise fortified) |
| 22:59.55 |
SuperTaz |
and then you
just disallow commercial distribution of the plugins |
| 23:00.02 |
SuperTaz |
there are
other licenses, too... |
| 23:00.05 |
SuperTaz |
*shrug* |
| 23:00.29 |
brlcad |
yeah, just
not likely worth the effort and bad publicity if they didn't get a
nod that it was okay beforehand |
| 23:00.30 |
SuperTaz |
the MySQL and
Postgres model works pretty well...it allows them to pay developers
AND leverage the community |
| 23:01.38 |
brlcad |
"pretty well"
minus a little political backlash to the purists |
| 23:01.44 |
poolio |
muahaha.
beset shall be closed source ;) |
| 23:01.51 |
SuperTaz |
so? |
| 23:01.59 |
SuperTaz |
the purists
are great in theory |
| 23:02.18 |
brlcad |
more the
poison aspects |
| 23:02.20 |
SuperTaz |
but you just
see what happens if no one is paying for any software |
| 23:02.42 |
SuperTaz |
I love open
source |
| 23:02.47 |
SuperTaz |
don't get me
wrong |
| 23:02.58 |
SuperTaz |
I've
contributed to several projects :) |
| 23:03.22 |
SuperTaz |
but...commercial interests drive a LOT of
open source innovation |
| 23:03.51 |
brlcad |
it does,
though commercial only tends to do so when it serves their
financial goals in politically tactful ways |
| 23:04.14 |
SuperTaz |
sure |
| 23:04.40 |
SuperTaz |
but meeting
customer demands (the users) is what makes sense for them
financially (usually) |
| 23:04.52 |
brlcad |
still mostly
moot for brl-cad -- the CAD industry is *already* a massive
multi-billion dollar industry that takes utterly *massive*
development capital just to get a basic functioning
toolset |
| 23:05.44 |
SuperTaz |
yes, but
brl-cad would probably have some decent market share if it had a
more intuitive interface :) |
| 23:06.07 |
brlcad |
we're the
farthest out there by a really long ways, with a funding source,
and we're still way behind in many aspects -- entire massive
domains we don't cater to (ECAD, MCAD, CADD, ..) well and features
that one would expect outright of commercial (a reasonable
gui) |
| 23:06.15 |
SuperTaz |
(sorry if I'm
slow here...rebuilding my keyboard while we speak) |
| 23:06.29 |
brlcad |
yep, mged's
interface is by far the biggest detriment to our progress at this
point |
| 23:06.53 |
SuperTaz |
yes...it's be
quite commercially viable with a solid interface |
| 23:07.00 |
SuperTaz |
it's, even
:) |
| 23:07.17 |
brlcad |
that's why
I'm looking to spark more development interest by getting talented
students involved in making a new interfaces, new tools |
| 23:07.28 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, that'd
be good |
| 23:07.32 |
brlcad |
open source
community will follow once the gui is in place, just not readily
beforehand |
| 23:07.35 |
SuperTaz |
are you in
academia? |
| 23:07.58 |
SuperTaz |
yes...that's
the thing...the open source community cares about gui for these
things :) |
| 23:08.17 |
brlcad |
we have long
ties to several big groups in academia, particularly computer
graphics |
| 23:08.54 |
SuperTaz |
that's
good |
| 23:09.06 |
AchiestDragon |
ok now back
to only one graphics card in this machine , still got big bug with
mged , is this documented with a workarround or do i need to file a
bug report |
| 23:09.17 |
SuperTaz |
I could maybe
get the depaul crowd interested...I'd have to figure out who to
talk to, though |
| 23:09.46 |
brlcad |
UNC chapel
hill, Hopkins, UUtah, Texas A&M, UDel, .. a lot of BRL-CAD's
early design and development days were in tight collaboration with
active research (and even today, there is some still going
on) |
| 23:09.53 |
SuperTaz |
they're
awfully microsoft oriented overall, but they have an okay HCI
program, and this'd be up their alley |
| 23:09.54 |
AchiestDragon |
on a multihad
display the frame buffer only works with the windows on one
monitor |
| 23:10.52 |
poolio |
brlcad:
anything from CMU? |
| 23:10.53 |
brlcad |
i would have
*loved* to have known about BRL-CAD when I was taking computer
graphics and other computer science courses in college |
| 23:11.02 |
SuperTaz |
okay... no
delete key now, either :P |
| 23:11.14 |
SuperTaz |
I'd really
better be careful what I type ;) |
| 23:12.21 |
brlcad |
poolio: yes
actually |
| 23:12.44 |
SuperTaz |
I think that
the problem here is less that the keyboard is dirty and more that
kensington just didn't design it all that well |
| 23:12.48 |
brlcad |
iirc, he was
a summer hire who later became a core developer for many
years |
| 23:13.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: ah
sweet |
| 23:13.22 |
SuperTaz |
hrmm...at
least I have an enter key again ;) |
| 23:14.03 |
brlcad |
poolio: in
that case, though, it was with the student, not with CMU faculty --
I don't think we have ties to anyone in their faculty bstaff right
now |
| 23:15.00 |
brlcad |
the schools a
listed were a subset of those where we actually worked with faculty
too, on research or development |
| 23:15.36 |
brlcad |
there have
certainly been other schools |
| 23:15.40 |
poolio |
ah
cool |
| 23:15.56 |
poolio |
brlcad: are
you trying to recruit people out of college now? |
| 23:16.22 |
SuperTaz |
it's the
distinction between working with a student and a school |
| 23:16.36 |
SuperTaz |
brl...who do
you actually work for? :) |
| 23:17.22 |
brlcad |
poolio: out
of anywhere really, just need the passion, background, and interest
;) |
| 23:17.27 |
AchiestDragon |
ie like this
shows
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Snap.jpg&oldid=610
it works on the righthand monitor only |
| 23:17.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: hehe
yeah. |
| 23:24.06 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: heh, I think I noticed that
a long while back too |
| 23:24.20 |
brlcad |
that's
"probably" a Tk issue, but hard to say |
| 23:24.46 |
AchiestDragon |
maybe , i am
using kde and it can be a bit odd sometimes on framebuffer
issues |
| 23:25.08 |
AchiestDragon |
odd that its
working on one monitor though |
| 23:25.25 |
AchiestDragon |
and all on
the same card |
| 23:26.24 |
AchiestDragon |
think i am
still going to have to reinstall linux as it does not seem ot have
cleared the other issue |
| 23:26.38 |
AchiestDragon |
that may be
part of the problem though |
| 23:33.35 |
AchiestDragon |
ho thats a
point , on the gui , maybe it would be posible to write a qt4
frontends for the gui , you do know the new qt4 licence allows for
gpl code to be compiled for all supported o/s's |
| 23:34.06 |
AchiestDragon |
so that
should make it a bit easyer to do the crossplatform gui
mods |
| 23:34.28 |
AchiestDragon |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:36.31 |
AchiestDragon |
theres talk
that most kde apps will get ported to windows when the qt4 port of
kde is done |
| 23:36.53 |
AchiestDragon |
and mac . and
a few other o/s's |
| 23:38.30 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: it's come up *lots* of
times .. opens the whole qt vs gtk debate but certainly a viable
approach nonetheless |
| 23:39.29 |
brlcad |
well aware of
their licensing, though gpl is actually a downside imho -- sticking
to bsd/mit/lgpl style code is generally more preferred |
| 23:40.03 |
AchiestDragon |
i started to
learn qt3 but stopped as qt4 was dew and may as well wait for it
rathe than having to relearn |
| 23:40.05 |
brlcad |
avoids
integration and refactoring issues outright and generally keeps the
purse-holders feeling a little more comfortable with themselves for
some reason |
| 23:40.54 |
SuperTaz |
yeah, it was
interesting doing linux kernel work at motorola |
| 23:42.08 |
SuperTaz |
we got it
done, though...there was a balance we had to maintain between what
was open source and what was closed |
| 23:42.16 |
SuperTaz |
it was
interesting to say the least |
| 23:42.20 |
yukonbob |
AchiestDragon: your display issue sounds
more like X than kde/gnome or a wm issue to me... depending on
display properties, I've got apps that'll do that too (start
mplayer on one screen and try to drag to other)... I'm using
XOrg(6.x) witha MergedFB (versus Xinerama, for example) with no
problems... |
| 23:43.42 |
AchiestDragon |
i think its
an x issue also , as it basicaly apperears a bit odd with its own
settings sometimes |
| 23:44.31 |
AchiestDragon |
now with the
2 card setup i had the same problem with xine only displaying video
on the same monitor , but with 1 card it works fine on
all |
| 23:44.51 |
AchiestDragon |
just mged
seems to have the same problem still |
| 23:46.05 |
AchiestDragon |
i will
reinstall , but not tonight , need to be in the right mood or will
get ratty |
| 23:46.12 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 23:48.01 |
AchiestDragon |
i have been
putting it off , untill the next hdd upgrade , then can just do a
fresh install and copy the files over after |
| 23:57.27 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 23:57.27 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 00:30.56 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:36.22 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 01:01.11 |
IriX64 |
I'm playing
around here :) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/bldg391.png |
| 01:25.16 |
IriX64 |
I know you
guys don't do windows, but did anybody try that windowsirssi.zip,
it's the unix code. |
| 01:26.16 |
IriX64 |
no perl, but
still, not bad |
| 01:37.03 |
IriX64 |
I deleted it
doh wait |
| 01:40.27 |
IriX64 |
windowsirssi-0.8.11.zip |
| 04:23.32 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-76-23-44-107.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:02.51 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: doxygenify, check
for null dereferencing |
| 06:16.58 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 06:30.10 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: The
navigation in the psd image you sent me is different to that of the
sitemap.txt - which should I be basing the navigation
on? |
| 07:01.50 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: not exactly |
| 07:02.04 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: look at the second
line |
| 07:03.17 |
brlcad |
it would
probably start out with no tabs depressed (as that's "Home" and
where the logo takes you) |
| 07:05.52 |
brlcad |
the other
categories will still be a part of the site, just not necessarily
on the "titlebar menu" .. the sitemap would probably be hidden down
below for example, no need to have that up front and
center |
| 07:16.05 |
brlcad |
yeah,
probably should have explained that earlier -- those two lines up
top starting with Home were two main menus i was pondering over,
the rest below are sections of the site and what goes into each
section. some sections are best as blocks that lead to sections,
others are menu items, others can be tiny
links/sections/items/whatever just reachable from
somewhere |
| 08:48.08 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:19.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@90-119-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz) |
| 09:28.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@90-119-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz) |
| 09:28.39 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 10:14.54 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 10:40.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@90-119-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz) |
| 10:50.48 |
IriX64 |
Laniakea:
http://irix32.apaces.live.com/photos |
| 10:51.22 |
IriX64 |
err http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 10:55.15 |
Laniakea |
IriX64: did
you render the pictures yourself? |
| 10:55.27 |
IriX64 |
no those are
from twibright |
| 10:55.49 |
IriX64 |
err the other
albumn is done here |
| 10:56.03 |
Laniakea |
IriX64: are
you a brl-cad developer? |
| 10:56.17 |
IriX64 |
i don't draw
though those are all examples included in brl-cad |
| 10:56.31 |
IriX64 |
heh me no, i
just play |
| 10:57.08 |
IriX64 |
try http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 10:58.24 |
IriX64 |
somebody gave
me a little goody to do hex bolts, wait i'll upload it |
| 11:00.15 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2
it'd called hex.c |
| 11:00.19 |
IriX64 |
it's
too |
| 11:03.17 |
IriX64 |
works i
think |
| 11:05.26 |
IriX64 |
Laniakea, you
asked me, now i'll ask you, are you a brl-cad
developer? |
| 11:33.51 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.121) |
| 11:42.15 |
Laniakea |
IriX64: no
I'm not |
| 12:03.43 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 12:13.45 |
poolio |
mornin |
| 12:14.13 |
IriX64 |
morning
poolio |
| 12:22.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 12:25.22 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 12:27.41 |
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| 12:31.25 |
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| 12:44.54 |
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| 12:51.03 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
could use a pointer or two when you get back |
| 13:11.28 |
brlcad |
poolio: sure,
what's up? |
| 13:12.10 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
trying to work out how I'm going to store the geometry
trees/modify/save/crossover/etc... |
| 13:12.51 |
brlcad |
lots of ways
to do it.. |
| 13:12.58 |
poolio |
I see that
you can use db_walk_tree to get each geometry item from a
combination, but is there a way to preserve the order? |
| 13:13.20 |
poolio |
brlcad: yes I
know, I can't really decide. I was hoping to just use the internal
trees and have to use say a red-black or other binary
tree |
| 13:14.03 |
poolio |
My main issue
is somehow extracting the internal graph (i think it was?) into a
tree form that I can easily modify |
| 13:22.51 |
poolio |
So I
basically I want to work with rt_*_internal as leaf nodes, and
whatever the internal operator structure is for the other
nodes |
| 13:26.15 |
brlcad |
poolio:
hmmm |
| 13:26.35 |
brlcad |
well for
starters, you hopefully saw the tree structures in
raytrace.h |
| 13:27.06 |
poolio |
Yeah |
| 13:27.16 |
brlcad |
rt_comb_internal's (i.e. combination
objects()) have a union tree * in them (called tree) that is their
hierarchy |
| 13:27.22 |
poolio |
I've looked
around with db_walk_tree, but that isn't what I want, although I
might write my own version |
| 13:28.19 |
brlcad |
I mean just
the containers that already exist |
| 13:28.44 |
poolio |
what? |
| 13:28.51 |
brlcad |
union tree *
in particular, which is what most of the code uses internally for
the tree structure |
| 13:29.16 |
poolio |
oh alright,
and are there functions to traverse that tree other than
db_walk_tree? |
| 13:29.53 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
are like three or four ways to walk |
| 13:30.26 |
poolio |
oh alright.
and are there implemented functions for copying subparts of one
tree to another? |
| 13:30.28 |
brlcad |
db_functree()
is another |
| 13:30.54 |
poolio |
Oh wow. I
somehow missed db_walk.c |
| 13:31.52 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
a good file as well as db_comb.c |
| 13:32.12 |
brlcad |
routines like
db_flatten_tree() might be of use |
| 13:32.15 |
poolio |
ok. So I'm
going to try to keep it in a union tree and modify it from
there |
| 13:32.19 |
poolio |
what's that
do? |
| 13:32.43 |
brlcad |
flattens the
tree and puts all the elements into an array |
| 13:32.49 |
poolio |
in what
order? |
| 13:33.00 |
brlcad |
jeez, I don't
remember :) |
| 13:33.06 |
poolio |
ok ok. I'll
have a looksy |
| 13:33.21 |
brlcad |
preorder
traversal if I had to guess |
| 13:35.17 |
poolio |
and it should
always be tree_db_leaf in my case? |
| 13:35.48 |
brlcad |
? |
| 13:36.08 |
poolio |
the type of
node for the tree? |
| 13:36.13 |
poolio |
I think it
is, oh well, I shall see. |
| 13:37.19 |
brlcad |
no no, it's
still the whole tree, but stored in a (more) simple array
container |
| 13:37.38 |
brlcad |
so you could
iterate over all tree elements without actually worrying about
traversing the tree |
| 13:37.52 |
poolio |
wait, what ar
eyou referencing? |
| 13:38.11 |
brlcad |
i'm not
saying that's the way to go, you'd have to figure out what the
order was to see if it could be used directly for cross-over for
example |
| 13:38.26 |
brlcad |
was talking
about flatten tree |
| 13:38.34 |
poolio |
oh yeah, I
think I'm going to avoid using it |
| 13:38.46 |
poolio |
It'd be
easiest of I could just keep the tree structure and just work off
of that |
| 13:42.03 |
brlcad |
you should be
able to I'd think |
| 13:42.42 |
poolio |
Yeah thanks,
I was just a bit overwhelmed :P |
| 13:42.58 |
brlcad |
count nodes
in A, count nodes in B, pick crossover points for both, swap the
links in their respective union tree's, write out the new
trees |
| 13:44.33 |
poolio |
I don't see
why you need to count nodes, but it's simple enough |
| 13:45.59 |
brlcad |
strictly
speaking you don't |
| 13:46.11 |
brlcad |
just one
means to "pick a crossover point" |
| 13:46.34 |
poolio |
yep.
hopefully I'll get a chance to try some of the many ways to do each
thing |
| 13:46.40 |
brlcad |
rand from 0
to the node count or something |
| 13:47.37 |
poolio |
does union
tree store any info about it's internal state? like # of nodes, or
anything? |
| 13:50.04 |
brlcad |
no no, it's
just a tree structure |
| 13:50.37 |
poolio |
db_tree_nleaves() :D |
| 13:51.54 |
brlcad |
yep, though
that's leave nodes only |
| 13:52.00 |
brlcad |
s/leave/leaf/ |
| 13:53.25 |
brlcad |
would be
pretty simple to add another for counting comb nodes or all
nodes |
| 13:54.18 |
poolio |
well |
| 13:55.03 |
poolio |
yeah, I'd
actually probably count operators, not leaves |
| 14:12.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
gonna just get the design down on paper, I just need to clear it up
in my head before I start coding. I'll be on the porch
:) |
| 14:28.56 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Okay,
I get it - thanks for the clarification. |
| 14:47.29 |
AchiestDragon |
http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Brlcad-editor.jpg&oldid=611
hmm? instructions anyone ? |
| 14:49.10 |
IriX64 |
a thing of
beauty :) |
| 14:49.48 |
IriX64 |
as for
instructions i'm outta my depth |
| 14:51.50 |
AchiestDragon |
well i can
desing qt gui's , but still to actual figure out how to get the
buttons to actualy link to functioning code |
| 14:53.20 |
IriX64 |
switch(msg1)
{ case button1: that type of thing? |
| 14:53.47 |
AchiestDragon |
i was looking
at using pyqt to conver the gui to python code so i can get to link
it to other code modules |
| 14:54.10 |
IriX64 |
man i know
nothing about python, sorry |
| 14:54.21 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron_
(n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) |
| 14:54.37 |
AchiestDragon |
but there
always seems to be eric issues in suse ,and dependancy problems
with the python tools for qt |
| 14:55.02 |
IriX64 |
you have your
plate full then |
| 14:56.31 |
IriX64 |
qt stands
for? |
| 14:56.37 |
AchiestDragon |
well as i
need to reinstall i happen to have a spare 80gb sata drive ,
thinking of puting the alpha version of kde4 and setting it up dual
boot so i can get started at learning qt4 |
| 14:57.23 |
dtidrow |
IriX64: qt is
a gui library |
| 14:57.27 |
AchiestDragon |
http://trolltech.com/products/qt |
| 14:57.34 |
dtidrow |
yeah, that
one ;-) |
| 14:57.38 |
IriX64 |
I don't play
with dual boot anymore, learned my lesson |
| 14:57.45 |
AchiestDragon |
its what kde
is written in |
| 14:57.51 |
dtidrow |
pure linux
now, eh? ;-) |
| 14:58.44 |
AchiestDragon |
well dual
boot when theres no windos is not realy a problem , and with 2
diferent linux installs its not so bad |
| 14:59.58 |
IriX64 |
qt=leading
edge technology obviously |
| 15:00.08 |
IriX64 |
i'm of the
old school |
| 15:00.27 |
IriX64 |
in other
words i wouldn't know what to do with it :) |
| 15:00.58 |
IriX64 |
by your
standards i'm running a toy system |
| 15:01.30 |
AchiestDragon |
its rather
than using tk |
| 15:02.37 |
AchiestDragon |
or
gtk |
| 15:02.38 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:02.46 |
IriX64_ |
rough
ride |
| 15:02.59 |
IriX64_ |
i run
windowsxppro with cygwin |
| 15:03.34 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64_: You
use cygwin. You wouldn't have happened to encounter this
error: |
| 15:03.36 |
MinuteElectron |
configure:
creating ./config.status |
| 15:03.37 |
MinuteElectron |
.infig.status: error: cannot find input
file: |
| 15:03.50 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there a way to extract a tree from a given rt_i? |
| 15:03.58 |
dtidrow |
I haven't
tested it yet, but I'm convinced that you take a heathly hit for
doing it that way |
| 15:04.17 |
IriX64 |
minuteelectron ive never encountered
that |
| 15:04.27 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 15:04.37 |
IriX64 |
log in
config.log |
| 15:04.41 |
IriX64 |
look
too |
| 15:04.49 |
AchiestDragon |
im trying to
dich using any M$ product , i now only need windows for 3
applications ,, protel dxp , autocad , and kcam (my cnc software
) |
| 15:05.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: Ah I
think I found it, ugh. Need to stop asking questions and start
coding :) |
| 15:05.49 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64:
ok |
| 15:06.08 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon
converting for me would be a learning curve so i get my feet wet
here :) |
| 15:07.20 |
AchiestDragon |
well have
been using linux on and of since 1995 but only did a total swich on
my main pc's about 4 years ago now , |
| 15:08.16 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon, see for you (now) it's easy
for me it would be sink or swim although I admit theres rich
documentation |
| 15:08.19 |
AchiestDragon |
i have one
machine with win2000 on that i use for protel dxp , and cad stuff
, but do eveything else in linux |
| 15:08.24 |
dtidrow |
gotta head
into work - later all... |
| 15:09.29 |
IriX64 |
pays to have
multiple machines, I guess but i'm not privy to the others in this
house, they belong to the children :) |
| 15:10.44 |
IriX64 |
I kind of
like what I've got actually, unix high on windows ;) |
| 15:11.07 |
AchiestDragon |
yes , if it
was not for the fact i have windows installed on one machine i
would be clustering them |
| 15:11.22 |
MinuteElectron |
Ha, this is
useful the last line of config.log says 'configure: exit 1'. Now
that would suggest success... |
| 15:11.48 |
IriX64 |
errr I think
it signifies an error return :) |
| 15:11.59 |
IriX64 |
brb |
| 15:13.11 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: not
neccesarily |
| 15:13.51 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm... |
| 15:14.42 |
IriX64 |
MinuteElectron does it say failed
anywhere |
| 15:16.29 |
MinuteElectron |
yes
'configure: failed program was: |
| 15:16.31 |
MinuteElectron |
' |
| 15:16.45 |
MinuteElectron |
| /*
confdefs.h. */ |
| 15:16.50 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm, |
| 15:17.16 |
IriX64 |
check
configure.ac |
| 15:17.25 |
IriX64 |
output
stuff |
| 15:17.44 |
MinuteElectron |
Ok, the same
failed linesaying 'confdefs.h' appears several times. |
| 15:18.14 |
IriX64 |
thats normal
i think depending what test it was doing |
| 15:19.07 |
IriX64 |
back to my
compile |
| 15:22.07 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/ZhYegJ57.html
<---anybody interested in warnings like these |
| 15:25.39 |
poolio |
IriX64: Not
interested, but it's not good I think. Keep it on file
:) |
| 15:36.27 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 15:36.38 |
IriX64 |
i'll fix my
copy :) |
| 15:52.37 |
IriX64 |
AchiestDragon: Is Mr. Chips available in
toy version, I know plenty of children who would have a ball with
such |
| 15:54.10 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
trying to figure out how to extract a struct rt_db_internal and
can't seem to figure out how. I've got the soltab and looked
through the rt_functab but didn't see anything |
| 16:09.46 |
poolio |
Or I guess I
don't really need rt_db_internal, can I just modify the soltab
shape specific data and then write that? |
| 16:11.16 |
*** join/#brlcad LostThePlot_
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 16:16.52 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:25.06 |
poolio |
brlcad: hmm,
the soltab is just in memory isn't it... |
| 16:34.23 |
poolio |
mannn....
that was a huge waste of time |
| 16:34.39 |
poolio |
lunch
time |
| 16:43.47 |
AchiestDragon |
well ok ,
just about to start reinstalling linux see if i can cure this x
problem |
| 17:13.49 |
IriX64 |
got the guy
who wrote hex.c to at least add his first name soproper credit is
there. |
| 17:15.57 |
IriX64 |
I've run it
but have no need for bolts here :) |
| 17:52.41 |
SuperTaz |
heh |
| 17:53.22 |
SuperTaz |
by a show of
hands, who thinks it'd be a nice feature if left clicking a pane in
mged activated it... |
| 17:55.27 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: interesting gui mockup --
that entirely using qt? |
| 17:56.17 |
AchiestDragon |
using
kdevelop gui designer |
| 17:56.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: got a
couple minutes? |
| 18:00.13 |
brlcad |
poolio:
sure |
| 18:00.32 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright, i've been struggling quite a bit this morning
:P |
| 18:01.24 |
poolio |
brlcad: So I
first saw that rt_i has all the information I need, so I was
looking through that, found the Regions and the soltab and stuff,
but then I realized I have no clue how I can then "save" those
changes back to a databse file |
| 18:01.26 |
brlcad |
no problem
with that, struggling is when learning happens :P |
| 18:01.35 |
poolio |
Heh,
true |
| 18:02.03 |
poolio |
So then I was
looking at trying to get the rt_db_internal structures and couldn't
figure out a way to do that, but just found the wdb_import and
looks like I can retrieve shapes by ID |
| 18:02.21 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 18:02.26 |
poolio |
But the main
thing was writing the changes to a database, and trying to find an
internal structure I could use that is easy to work with and modify
but also easy to write to a database |
| 18:02.52 |
poolio |
Like for
example, the union trees, they seem easy to work with especially in
just swapping pointers to do crossover, but I don't see a way to
write those changed trees to a database |
| 18:03.25 |
poolio |
and with the
rt_i it look slike I'd have to have re-run rt_prep for every single
shape to get access to the soltab and stuff I need, and I still
didn't know how to then export that |
| 18:04.08 |
poolio |
Then I
thought about just using Tcl, there's routines to convert geometry
to tcl, then i can modify the tcl string, and then there are
routines to execute the tcl string and output it to a
databse |
| 18:04.13 |
poolio |
but that
seems awfully inefficient and slow |
| 18:04.38 |
poolio |
and crossover
would be a bit more though in tcl |
| 18:05.33 |
brlcad |
you'd think
it was inefficient, but in the big scheme of things it still isn't
a blip |
| 18:05.53 |
brlcad |
not that I
think that's the way to do it .. just saying you shouldn't assume
it's not the way because of performance |
| 18:06.29 |
poolio |
Ok. but I'd
still prefer working with the union trees. Those are easy to deal
with, although the encapsulation of soltab is kidn fo
gone |
| 18:06.30 |
brlcad |
let me see if
I can find an example that helps |
| 18:07.12 |
poolio |
Yeah that'd
be great, I've been browsing through a bunch of examples but I
couldn't find any that would work well when directly applied. I was
also thinking about keeping things in a wmember list but it looked
like going wmember --> tree created a "left-heavy" tree and I
had no clue what GIFT schematics were |
| 18:07.17 |
poolio |
*semantics |
| 18:07.23 |
poolio |
couldn't find
anything on google about those |
| 18:08.14 |
brlcad |
too generic a
term to find info on gift via google ;) |
| 18:08.23 |
brlcad |
though I'm
sure there's something out there |
| 18:08.26 |
poolio |
well I found
what the acronym meant in relation to brl-cad, but still couldnt
find it |
| 18:08.41 |
brlcad |
it's mostly
unimportant |
| 18:08.52 |
poolio |
alright |
| 18:09.03 |
brlcad |
just a
particular way of storing geometry and fields that it needs to keep
track of |
| 18:09.06 |
poolio |
alright |
| 18:09.18 |
brlcad |
like the
GIFTmater string is really just an integer material id |
| 18:09.30 |
poolio |
well what I
really needed help with was finding some way that if I modified the
soltab / pointers in a union tree, a way of saving that tree to a
new database, and probably copying all the primitives along with
it |
| 18:11.04 |
poolio |
also I'd like
to keep the trees in memory in between generatons and not have to
re-read the previous database every time |
| 18:11.34 |
brlcad |
I still have
to poke around and make sure, but I can say that to write out
geometry you need a primitive |
| 18:12.00 |
brlcad |
primitives
with respect to operators means writing out
combinations |
| 18:12.06 |
poolio |
Well yes
sorry |
| 18:12.07 |
brlcad |
combinations
are rt_comb_internal objects |
| 18:12.51 |
brlcad |
so that's
your starting point no matter what in terms of saving geometry
unless you recreate a hierarchy from scratch each time using
mk_comb |
| 18:13.02 |
poolio |
alright. so
an rt_comb_internal object |
| 18:13.10 |
poolio |
that's
created by mk_lcomb() right? |
| 18:13.35 |
poolio |
well
whatever, I can find that later |
| 18:13.39 |
brlcad |
mk_lcomb()
will make a new one for you .. all the mk_ routines are part of
libwdb for creating geometry |
| 18:13.50 |
poolio |
ok |
| 18:13.57 |
brlcad |
you're
talking about reading an existing, though, and then writing that
out, which is not mk_* |
| 18:14.00 |
SuperTaz |
AchiestDragon: was that image of the
editor a mockup, or does it really work? |
| 18:14.10 |
yukonbob |
poolio: does
this make sense to you? |
| 18:14.12 |
yukonbob |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_wrapping_algorithm |
| 18:14.34 |
yukonbob |
s/to you/for
what you're doing/ |
| 18:14.34 |
poolio |
yukonbob:
wrong topic I think :P |
| 18:15.04 |
AchiestDragon |
SuperTaz:
its a a proper gui just no code behind the menus or
buttons |
| 18:15.12 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yes.
Well I guess I can write that out with
wdb_put_internal? |
| 18:15.24 |
SuperTaz |
is it in
Tk? |
| 18:15.38 |
AchiestDragon |
no
qt3.5 |
| 18:15.44 |
SuperTaz |
oh |
| 18:15.52 |
yukonbob |
AchiestDragon: do you have a screenshot
posted? |
| 18:15.52 |
SuperTaz |
isn't qt
commercial? |
| 18:15.57 |
brlcad |
poolio: that
sounds about right, lemme look |
| 18:16.12 |
poolio |
that needs an
rt_db_internal struct |
| 18:16.52 |
brlcad |
which is what
you get during a lookup |
| 18:16.57 |
brlcad |
among a
variety of places |
| 18:17.04 |
brlcad |
yeah,
wdb_put_internal looks right |
| 18:17.07 |
poolio |
ok |
| 18:17.14 |
AchiestDragon |
qt is
commertial but is avalable for free use if you use it for gpl
code |
| 18:17.32 |
poolio |
so basically
each individual will be an rt_comb_internal, and I'll be able to
modify the tree held in that struct, and write it with
wdb_put_internal? |
| 18:18.00 |
brlcad |
poolio: er,
sorry, rt_db_get_internal |
| 18:18.10 |
brlcad |
which takes a
directory pointer, which you get during lookup |
| 18:18.35 |
poolio |
the directory
pointer points to the object in the database which is our
combination? |
| 18:18.35 |
brlcad |
you can crack
a rt_db_internal to get at the rt_comb_internal it contains when
it's a combination |
| 18:19.07 |
brlcad |
right, just
directory pointers don't actually load geometry (for performance),
they load basically an index reference |
| 18:19.14 |
poolio |
yeah
alright |
| 18:19.33 |
SuperTaz |
achiest: but
not BSD or LGPL, right? |
| 18:19.49 |
AchiestDragon |
right |
| 18:20.04 |
SuperTaz |
what's the
current license for mged? isn't it LGPL/BSD hybrid? |
| 18:20.21 |
AchiestDragon |
but it would
not stop a gpl gui frontend beeing written |
| 18:20.28 |
SuperTaz |
(looks good,
btw) |
| 18:20.31 |
SuperTaz |
no, it
wouldn't |
| 18:20.48 |
brlcad |
not a hybrid,
it's lgpl |
| 18:21.02 |
SuperTaz |
if you build
a 4 pane view into it, it'll be even better |
| 18:21.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: or I
could use wdb_import to get the rt_db_internal right? |
| 18:21.27 |
brlcad |
bsd is the
documentation, build system, and data files |
| 18:21.33 |
SuperTaz |
I'm pondering
making some similar changes to mged itself |
| 18:21.52 |
brlcad |
poolio:
probably, I think it just does the two-step for you |
| 18:21.59 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 18:22.27 |
poolio |
and the
idb_ptr is goign to be the pointer to the rt_comb_internal
? |
| 18:22.33 |
poolio |
Yeah, looks
that way, sweet :) |
| 18:23.07 |
brlcad |
you can
access it directly, but I believe there's a routine you should call
to crack it :) |
| 18:23.24 |
poolio |
wait, what do
you mean? |
| 18:23.37 |
poolio |
The main
issue I was having this morning was all the circularly linked
pointers to every which structure |
| 18:23.44 |
SuperTaz |
I'd really
like to get a context menu working, get click to activate working,
and get the console at the bottom of the window...those 3 would
make mged a lot more user-friendly :) |
| 18:24.41 |
poolio |
brlcad: also,
is there a way to duplicate the rt_db_internal
structure? |
| 18:25.13 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz: if
you find the code that the menu calls when you ask it to activate a
pane, you should be able to add that to the window
bindings |
| 18:25.33 |
SuperTaz |
I'm working
on it...I've found the code already |
| 18:25.38 |
brlcad |
ah,
sweet |
| 18:25.42 |
SuperTaz |
I'm just
trying to find the window bindings :) |
| 18:25.50 |
SuperTaz |
and then
figure out how they work :) |
| 18:31.14 |
brlcad |
if you do,
would you let me know? |
| 18:33.03 |
brlcad |
AchiestDragon: that mockup image is
actually kinda familiar .. did you do that several months
ago? |
| 18:33.30 |
AchiestDragon |
no , i did it
today |
| 18:35.30 |
brlcad |
hrm,
okay |
| 18:35.34 |
brlcad |
deja
vu |
| 18:37.09 |
SuperTaz |
heh...I'll
let you know once I figure it out |
| 18:37.25 |
SuperTaz |
I spent an
hour last night learning how activation works...it's really pretty
simple |
| 18:37.45 |
SuperTaz |
I just
haven't had any time to look at the bindings :) |
| 18:57.35 |
poolio |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.40 |
poolio |
errr
oops |
| 19:00.56 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: apache changes
made |
| 19:25.51 |
brlcad |
should check
for includes now |
| 19:38.34 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
thanks |
| 19:41.43 |
SuperTaz |
blah |
| 19:41.59 |
SuperTaz |
I'm trying to
see if eclipse will play nice as a tcl/tk editor |
| 19:42.19 |
SuperTaz |
I still
haven't figured out where the bindings are |
| 19:42.43 |
SuperTaz |
though I'm
learning more and more about how mged does what it does |
| 19:45.14 |
SuperTaz |
I think I
understand why I'm not finding this stuff |
| 19:46.36 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: not to interfere, but I
noticed the menu and was poking on some values in the style
:) |
| 19:46.57 |
brlcad |
looking
good |
| 19:47.00 |
brlcad |
really
good |
| 19:47.18 |
brlcad |
getting
excited to start populating it |
| 19:47.27 |
MinuteElectron |
dw, I don't
mind |
| 19:48.16 |
MinuteElectron |
I just need
to finish the navigation, make some general styling (e.g. the
headers and hyperlinks) and add some padding to the main content
area. Then it will be good to go, |
| 19:49.43 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron/brlcad: link? |
| 19:49.51 |
MinuteElectron |
http://my.brlcad.org |
| 19:50.06 |
poolio |
oh, it's
already _there_ :P |
| 19:50.52 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah,
installed MediaWiki and Drupal on the server last night and copied
the theme across. |
| 19:53.41 |
SuperTaz |
well, the
header is there, at least :) |
| 19:54.09 |
SuperTaz |
looks
good |
| 19:54.57 |
MinuteElectron |
thxxs |
| 19:55.04 |
MinuteElectron |
most of the
work was brlcad though. |
| 19:55.21 |
SuperTaz |
ahhh, well,
it still looks good :) |
| 19:55.35 |
brlcad |
was not, I
just photoshopped a little -- that's the easy part |
| 19:55.44 |
SuperTaz |
of course,
the rest of the template still need to be done :) |
| 19:55.44 |
brlcad |
turning that
into css is the bear |
| 19:55.50 |
brlcad |
poolio: keep
whining :) |
| 19:56.08 |
brlcad |
but that
won't go so far, effort speaks louder than words :) |
| 19:56.22 |
brlcad |
mock up a
better menu :) |
| 19:56.43 |
SuperTaz |
I won't
complain about the navbar, simply because I haven't seen what the
body is going to look like |
| 19:56.57 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yeah,
I'm kind of busy ;) |
| 19:57.12 |
SuperTaz |
once I see
the content area, I'll weigh in on design ;) |
| 19:57.24 |
SuperTaz |
but the
header still looks good ;) |
| 19:57.26 |
brlcad |
me too, and I
like it .. so without something better, it's the winner |
| 19:58.12 |
brlcad |
SuperTaz:
quite true |
| 19:58.23 |
brlcad |
the header is
only one piece of a much bigger design |
| 19:58.41 |
brlcad |
there's still
the overall look/feel, how blocks look, the content area, the
footer |
| 19:58.46 |
SuperTaz |
yes, and I'm
not going to judge until I've seen more...then I'll weigh in on
usability, aesthetics, etc. |
| 19:59.46 |
SuperTaz |
despite
popular belief, aesthetics are a significant part of usability, at
least if you evaluate it based on cognition |
| 20:00.44 |
SuperTaz |
and since you
want people to be able to navigate the site to get their answers,
it needs to be aesthetically pleasing to help them do a better job
of navigating |
| 20:24.45 |
MinuteElectron |
w00t look at
nav everyone!!! |
| 20:26.12 |
brlcad |
nice, got the
corner :) |
| 20:26.33 |
brlcad |
your color is
off just a hair :) |
| 20:27.09 |
MinuteElectron |
what? |
| 20:27.28 |
MinuteElectron |
no it
isn't |
| 20:28.43 |
MinuteElectron |
heh |
| 20:29.44 |
brlcad |
you see
it? |
| 20:29.57 |
MinuteElectron |
no |
| 20:30.48 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/hair.png |
| 20:31.12 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, not
getting that on my end, |
| 20:31.25 |
MinuteElectron |
Maybe my
monitor doesn't have enough colors. |
| 20:31.28 |
brlcad |
then the png
is probably missing gamma correction or something |
| 20:31.40 |
MinuteElectron |
How many bits
is your monitor? |
| 20:32.45 |
brlcad |
32-bit |
| 20:33.53 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 20:33.57 |
MinuteElectron |
which
browser? |
| 20:37.20 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:38.47 |
brlcad |
safari |
| 20:41.22 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, this is
very odd. What screen resolution are you on? |
| 20:42.04 |
brlcad |
1680x1050 |
| 20:42.51 |
brlcad |
it's almost
guaranteed just a gamma issue |
| 20:43.09 |
brlcad |
firefox isn't
the best at applying gamma correction |
| 20:43.18 |
MinuteElectron |
I have no
idea, I also have no idea what gamma correction is. When you get a
moment would you kindly add it to the image 'corner.png' please.
thanks. |
| 20:43.32 |
brlcad |
heh
:) |
| 20:47.09 |
Laniakea |
issues with
gamma correction are guranteed as long as people stay ignorant
having no clue what the digital numbers stored in their files are
supposed to mean |
| 20:47.16 |
AchiestDragon |
well sort of
resolved the x problem and mged works fine , it seems that the g200
quad head card is not quite fully supported in x , so just using 2
monitors and the dual head g550 |
| 20:49.00 |
Laniakea |
The picture
hair.png has no gamma chunk present, so the gamma is assumed to be
0.454545 |
| 20:49.16 |
AchiestDragon |
down side
smaller desktop size only 3200 * 1200 |
| 20:49.22 |
Laniakea |
However it
has an ICC profile |
| 21:02.54 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
think there is a problem, the htaccess file in /d/ isn't working -
perhaps you could chown the /d/ directory to www - I seam to be
unable to. |
| 21:05.44 |
MinuteElectron |
I have to go,
be back tomorrow. |
| 21:11.21 |
brlcad |
alright, I'll
look at ait |
| 21:11.37 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: attempting to debug
edge_check code; added return states for edge check; removed some
dead code |
| 21:13.33 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: fix
bug where search domains are unordered; tried 'adaptive' chord
sampling |
| 21:15.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: played
with the chord tolerance and derivative tolerance (need to change
it to tangent!) |
| 22:54.55 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=cadguy@c-76-23-44-107.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:38.38 |
*** join/#brlcad iday_
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:23.05 |
*** join/#brlcad jimmyz
(n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:29.36 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:31.01 |
*** join/#brlcad cad32
(n=bd0cdf4e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:53.05 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@217.35.76.52) |
| 01:26.38 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 01:41.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
after rewriting all the code I still get the same problem with
corrupting the database |
| 02:18.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: more cleanup,
reorder based on call order, remove dead code, add
comments |
| 02:25.04 |
brlcad |
poolio: heh,
no .. just freenode relinking servers |
| 02:25.18 |
poolio |
brlcad:
haha |
| 02:25.30 |
poolio |
brlcad: if I
uploaded some files, think you'd have a minute to look at
them? |
| 02:25.46 |
poolio |
I currently
have the most bizarre thing I've ever seen |
| 02:26.04 |
poolio |
I have a line
that has a printf statement on it, when I comment out that line it
segfaults. When I keep it, it runs. :? |
| 02:29.54 |
brlcad |
heh,
fun |
| 02:30.02 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you've blown the stack somewhere |
| 02:30.23 |
brlcad |
often pretty
hard bugs to track down |
| 02:30.46 |
poolio |
ah
correctomndo, gdb to the rescue |
| 02:30.48 |
brlcad |
but sure, I'd
take a look for a little while (though I'm in the middle of other
things to get too involved tonight) |
| 02:31.57 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright, gimme 2 more minutes and if I can't get it I'll send you
the test app and cvs up the files it depends on |
| 02:32.10 |
brlcad |
gdb is not
great at detecting corrupted stack, but good to try |
| 02:33.57 |
poolio |
it's no
longer segfaulting, but same "db5_crack_disk_header() bad magic1 --
database has become corrupted expected x76, got x0 |
| 02:48.34 |
poolio |
brlcad: Oh no
way. I only get the error when copying combinations |
| 02:48.56 |
poolio |
can I not
rt_db_put_internal a combination? |
| 02:50.28 |
brlcad |
poolio:
there's not nearly enough information in your comments to answer
that question :) |
| 02:50.30 |
poolio |
oh I see...I
guess my trees weren't properly being modified to point to the
renamed shapes |
| 02:51.27 |
brlcad |
db5_crack_disk_header() is one of the
first things that the database loader does to make sure it's
actually working with what seems to be a .g file |
| 02:51.47 |
poolio |
I figured it
out I think, I just still haven't found the bug |
| 02:51.53 |
brlcad |
meaning if
that fails, then "something" before that is wrong |
| 02:56.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (9 files): |
| 02:56.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
quell compilation warnings for a slew of switch statements that
don't handle |
| 02:56.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
various possible enumeration values. whether this is
unimplemented |
| 02:56.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
functionality or cases that will never be encountered in that
routine, the |
| 02:56.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
warnings can be quelled by adding a default case that does
nothing. |
| 03:07.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: quell exit decl
warning |
| 03:08.41 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g4-g5.c g5-g4.c): quell exit decl
warning |
| 03:13.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: quell libpkg compilation
warning, the buffer may be modified to add the pkg header so it
shouldn't be const |
| 03:14.15 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601584.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:15.35 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse/test.png
(thing is marvellous) :) |
| 03:21.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: use bufsize
instead |
| 03:31.36 |
IriX64 |
truck.png is
interesting too :) |
| 03:35.47 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
have a general question about stringhandling. If i'm passing around
and modifying names, concatenating strings, etc... does brl-cad
implement things that might be helpful or is it fine to just use
libc standard routiens? |
| 03:43.31 |
brlcad |
poolio:
should either use standard libc routines or libbu's bu_vls
strings |
| 03:43.44 |
poolio |
alright. they
don't really need to be vls, so ill stick to libc |
| 03:43.46 |
brlcad |
(vls ==
variable length strings) |
| 03:43.52 |
poolio |
yep |
| 03:44.05 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright i'm on a roll and am finally getting somewhere, i'm gonna
stay up coding :) |
| 03:44.23 |
brlcad |
if you can't
do it without allocating memory ala malloc and friends, you should
probably be using a vls |
| 03:44.48 |
poolio |
well for like
naming shapes |
| 03:45.06 |
poolio |
I currently
have a name string and concatenate an integer |
| 03:45.22 |
poolio |
so I use
snprintf a bunch |
| 03:45.33 |
brlcad |
sure, that's
fine |
| 03:45.50 |
brlcad |
it's whether
that n is to a static buffer or something being resized as
needed |
| 03:45.58 |
brlcad |
if it's being
resized (ever), it should probably be a vls |
| 03:46.07 |
poolio |
yeah, i'm not
realloc'ing anything |
| 03:46.07 |
brlcad |
if it's just
an array, then you're good |
| 03:47.28 |
brlcad |
likewise, if
the size never changes and it's megs of memory, it should probably
be a stack array instead of malloc'd too |
| 03:48.00 |
brlcad |
s/megs/not
megs/ |
| 03:49.16 |
poolio |
yeah. none of
it is malloc'd. I'm defining the buffer size at 256 for now, I'll
fix that later |
| 03:52.30 |
IriX64 |
poolio for
256 bytes why not alloca and let the system automagically free it
at exit :) |
| 03:52.52 |
poolio |
IriX64:
that's what I'm doing. "none of it is malloc'd" |
| 03:53.04 |
IriX64 |
heh
ok |
| 03:53.11 |
poolio |
well no i
lied |
| 03:53.13 |
poolio |
i'm not using
alloca |
| 03:53.30 |
IriX64 |
it's your
code man |
| 03:53.35 |
poolio |
heh, you can
patch it for me |
| 03:53.56 |
IriX64 |
rtfp read the
fine patch :) |
| 03:55.38 |
IriX64 |
roses need
watering :) bbiab |
| 07:39.39 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:46.45 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-064-107.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:21.31 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.179.34) |
| 13:26.07 |
poolio |
mornin. i vow
to commit today :) |
| 13:34.43 |
Laniakea |
When
compiling brl-cad, I always did ./configure and never ./configure
--enable-optimized as suggested in INSTALL. |
| 13:34.50 |
Laniakea |
Does it
affect the rendering speed significantly? |
| 13:38.44 |
poolio |
yes. |
| 13:38.54 |
Laniakea |
how
much? |
| 13:39.03 |
Laniakea |
orders of
magnitude? percent? tens of percent? |
| 13:39.09 |
poolio |
in terms of
the VGR I get in benchmark it's around twice as fast |
| 13:39.14 |
brlcad |
almost 2x
usually |
| 13:39.16 |
Laniakea |
Now I
understand why I think it's slow :) |
| 13:39.19 |
poolio |
brlcad:
mornin :) |
| 13:39.55 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: now I
am trying to compile 7.10.0 or however it's called on OpenBSD. If
it fails I can then report you the error message. |
| 13:39.57 |
brlcad |
depends of
course on hardware, compiler, alignment, and other issues, but
usuallya bout 2x |
| 13:42.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: i'm
just gonna run my database organization by you. The original model
data that has the source we're trying to generate is going to be
stored in some database, the program gets that database and each
generation has its own database. Any suggestions for naming shapes
part of a certain region? I was just appending numbers |
| 13:43.17 |
brlcad |
not really
anything major |
| 13:43.19 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: what
kind of optimization is turned on by this option? Compiler
optimizations like -O3, -s -fomit-frame-pointer, -fstrength-reduce,
-funroll-loops etc.? |
| 13:43.36 |
brlcad |
maybe include
the primitive name as the prefix or a suffix so it's immediately
identifiable |
| 13:44.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: good
idea |
| 13:45.21 |
Laniakea |
*** Warning:
linker path does not have real file for library
-ltcl85. |
| 13:45.21 |
Laniakea |
*** I have
the capability to make that library automatically link in
when |
| 13:45.21 |
Laniakea |
*** you link
to this library. But I can only do this if you have a |
| 13:45.21 |
Laniakea |
*** shared
version of the library, which you do not appear to have |
| 13:45.21 |
Laniakea |
*** because I
did check the linker path looking for a file starting |
| 13:45.24 |
Laniakea |
*** with
libtcl85 and none of the candidates passed a file format
test |
| 13:45.26 |
Laniakea |
*** using a
file magic. Last file checked:
/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl85.a |
| 13:45.29 |
Laniakea |
That's normal
or is it a failure sign? |
| 13:45.35 |
poolio |
Please use a
pastebin |
| 13:45.35 |
brlcad |
Laniakea: it
basically goes from unoptimized (-O0) to -O3 |
| 13:45.36 |
Laniakea |
(the
compilation continues) |
| 13:45.37 |
poolio |
~paste |
| 13:45.38 |
ibot |
paste is
probably http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 13:45.43 |
Laniakea |
omg
-O0 |
| 13:45.55 |
brlcad |
default is
set for developers |
| 13:47.24 |
brlcad |
the
installation docs have always documented that as well, default is
_unoptimized_ |
| 13:47.29 |
brlcad |
hence the
flag for optimized |
| 13:48.59 |
brlcad |
there have
been other flags, but whether they actually add anything usually
depends on many factors and can actually slow it down too so it's
presently still left up to the person compiling to add more than
-O3 |
| 13:49.00 |
Laniakea |
and I
wondered, why all the videos render for weeks :) |
| 13:49.44 |
Laniakea |
I have system
CFLAGS set to -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe. Does
it cause optimization when I don't specify --enable-optimized to
./configure? |
| 13:50.39 |
brlcad |
of course,
you can set the flags directly |
| 13:51.03 |
brlcad |
in that case
enable optimized isn't going to do much at all |
| 13:51.04 |
Laniakea |
but does the
make actually take it over? |
| 13:51.07 |
Laniakea |
:( |
| 13:51.20 |
Laniakea |
since some
projects ignore these CFLAGS |
| 13:51.30 |
brlcad |
depends what
you mean by "system CFLAGS" |
| 13:51.38 |
brlcad |
you have to
specify it somehow |
| 13:51.47 |
Laniakea |
it's set in
/etc/profile or so by export |
| 13:52.46 |
brlcad |
that one
should retain then if it's exported in your environment, but you'd
have to look at the compilation log to be sure |
| 14:12.58 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: so
the errors are here... |
| 14:13.33 |
Laniakea |
./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference
to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char>
>& std::operator<< <std::char_traits<char>
>(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char>
>&, char const*)' |
| 14:13.37 |
Laniakea |
./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference
to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char>
>::operator<<(long)' |
| 14:13.56 |
Laniakea |
and much more
undefined references. |
| 14:14.09 |
poolio |
all from
g++? |
| 14:14.38 |
Laniakea |
They are from
/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -O3
-fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -pipe
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3
-L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
-fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o comb comb.o librt.la -lc -lm
../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la
../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la
../../src/libbn/libbn.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L.. |
| 14:17.04 |
Laniakea |
Any idea if I
need to install some additional library? |
| 14:18.33 |
poolio |
sounds like
it's using gcc when it should be using g++ |
| 14:20.50 |
Laniakea |
but it's
running on comb.o and comb.o has equivalent of comb.c so it should
run gcc and not g++, shouldn't? |
| 14:23.17 |
poolio |
no |
| 14:23.33 |
poolio |
comb.o is
equivalent of an object file, in c or c++, it's just nomenclature.
It could be anything |
| 14:23.47 |
poolio |
I could be
entirely wrong though, I'd wait for brlcad to return and solve all
your problems. |
| 14:23.50 |
Laniakea |
why should it
run g++? |
| 14:24.01 |
Laniakea |
where is
brlcad? On the toiler? |
| 14:24.03 |
Laniakea |
toliet? |
| 14:24.20 |
poolio |
No, he's
working his ass off, like he does every day. So be patient, maybe
find something else to do, and wait for a response. |
| 14:25.48 |
Laniakea |
I want to
compile newest brl-cad because the old one rendered contour
drawings incorrectly and they repaired it after I reported
it |
| 14:26.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: rt_bufsize is in a header we
don't use, so just define something |
| 14:28.27 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Want
a search box in the footer and at the top or just at the
top? |
| 14:28.57 |
Laniakea |
poolio: are
you brlcad's coworker? |
| 14:29.15 |
poolio |
kind
of. |
| 14:29.21 |
Laniakea |
MinuteElectron: and you
too> |
| 14:29.38 |
MinuteElectron |
Laniakea: I
am the website developer. |
| 14:29.47 |
Laniakea |
MinuteElectron: of the new upcoming
website? |
| 14:29.52 |
MinuteElectron |
Very new
around here, yes. |
| 14:30.07 |
Laniakea |
MinuteElectron: I can't wait for
that |
| 14:30.15 |
MinuteElectron |
It is
available at http://my.brlcad.org/ - but bear in
mind it is still under development. |
| 14:30.33 |
MinuteElectron |
(nearly ready
to port it to MediaWiki and populate the site though) |
| 14:30.46 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-064-107.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:46.59 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: did
you see the error? |
| 15:23.30 |
brlcad |
Laniakea:
yes |
| 15:24.21 |
brlcad |
it is a c++
matter, attempting to link the first app that uses librt (and your
compilation is specified to use openNURBS) |
| 15:24.39 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: do I
need to install openNURBS? |
| 15:24.54 |
brlcad |
it already
compiled it |
| 15:25.12 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: what
I should do to make it compile? |
| 15:25.30 |
brlcad |
are you on
head? |
| 15:25.38 |
Laniakea |
7.10.0 |
| 15:26.24 |
brlcad |
hrm, I forget
what was done in 7.10.0 -- after libopenNURBS.la, it "should" also
say -lstdc++ |
| 15:26.34 |
brlcad |
assuming the
configure test passed |
| 15:26.46 |
brlcad |
do you have
libstdc++ installed? |
| 15:27.27 |
Laniakea |
/usr/lib/libstdc++.a |
| 15:27.27 |
Laniakea |
/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0 |
| 15:28.54 |
Laniakea |
find
/usr/include and /usr/local/include -name '*stdc++*' doesn't find
anything |
| 15:29.16 |
Laniakea |
Yes the
conffigure passed |
| 15:29.53 |
brlcad |
grep
OPENNURBS src/librt/Makefile |
| 15:30.10 |
Laniakea |
OPENNURBS =
${top_builddir}/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la
${LIBSTDCXX} |
| 15:30.10 |
Laniakea |
OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS =
-I${top_srcdir}/src/other/openNURBS |
| 15:30.10 |
Laniakea |
BREP_CPPFLAGS
= -DOBJ_BREP=1 $(OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS) |
| 15:30.25 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
PM? |
| 15:30.45 |
Laniakea |
brlcad:
-lstdc++ doesn |
| 15:30.49 |
Laniakea |
t occur in
the Makefile |
| 15:31.07 |
brlcad |
grep
"LIBSTDCXX =" src/librt/Makefile |
| 15:31.24 |
Laniakea |
LIBSTDCXX
= |
| 15:31.34 |
Laniakea |
(the rest of
line is empty) |
| 15:31.40 |
brlcad |
according to
that, the test failed |
| 15:31.55 |
Laniakea |
you mean the
./configure failed? |
| 15:32.05 |
brlcad |
no |
| 15:32.13 |
brlcad |
the configure
test for -lstdc++ |
| 15:32.28 |
Laniakea |
so should I
rerun configure and figure out why? |
| 15:32.34 |
brlcad |
configure
runs hundreds of tests for functionality |
| 15:32.41 |
brlcad |
that is one
of them, and it failed for some reason |
| 15:32.47 |
brlcad |
look in
config.log |
| 15:33.08 |
brlcad |
search for
lstd |
| 15:33.24 |
brlcad |
mine
has: |
| 15:33.25 |
brlcad |
configure:31387: checking for main in
-lstdc++ |
| 15:33.25 |
brlcad |
configure:31411: gcc -o conftest
-I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lstdc++
>&5 |
| 15:33.28 |
brlcad |
configure:31417: $? = 0 |
| 15:33.31 |
brlcad |
that means it
succeeded |
| 15:33.43 |
brlcad |
if it fails,
there will be a huge section below it with details on
why |
| 15:34.40 |
Laniakea |
libstdc++
test failed because of missing -lm: |
| 15:34.52 |
Laniakea |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:35.06 |
Laniakea |
and the error
messages are like /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0: undefined reference
to `log' and all possible math functions |
| 15:36.17 |
brlcad |
interesting,
ok |
| 15:36.19 |
Laniakea |
log, sqrt,
cosh, finitef, cos, tanh, sin, atan2, pow, sinh, log10, exp,
tan |
| 15:36.58 |
Laniakea |
so brlcad has
to be compiled with LDFLAGS=-lm ./configure
--enable-optimized? |
| 15:37.15 |
Laniakea |
That should
be written in the README |
| 15:37.16 |
brlcad |
you have a
stdc with unresolved symbols, first I've seen of that |
| 15:37.28 |
brlcad |
that
shouldn't be written in the readme |
| 15:37.37 |
brlcad |
it can be
accommodated |
| 15:37.50 |
brlcad |
i.e.
adjusting configure.ac is best |
| 15:38.45 |
Laniakea |
well the
libstdc++, if using pow etc., must necessarily have unresolved
symbols, doesn't? |
| 15:38.49 |
brlcad |
which OS are
you on? openbsd? |
| 15:39.02 |
brlcad |
no, it could
resolve the symbols |
| 15:39.06 |
Laniakea |
Otherwise all
the libm code would have to duplicated inside libstdc++,
wouldn't? |
| 15:39.18 |
brlcad |
you can have
libraries with or without resolved symbols |
| 15:39.19 |
Laniakea |
But the
resolution is done only by the dynamic linker, isn't
it? |
| 15:39.26 |
brlcad |
usually
low-level libraries are fully resolved |
| 15:39.31 |
Laniakea |
What does it
mean, library with resolved symbols and without? |
| 15:39.40 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
you have to link against all of their dependency libs
regardless |
| 15:40.16 |
Laniakea |
resolved
symbol means that instead of "pow", an absolute address is written
in that place in libstdc++? |
| 15:40.39 |
brlcad |
it means
exactly that -- there are symbols in the library .. they are either
defined as in they have an address to code or they do not (man ld,
nm, ar) |
| 15:40.49 |
brlcad |
basically,
yes |
| 15:40.59 |
brlcad |
depending on
what you mean by absolute |
| 15:41.33 |
brlcad |
regardless,
it uses pow, so the library resolves the symbols for pow() in that
library by providing the definition |
| 15:42.07 |
Laniakea |
but if you
link with a different version of -lm than against which it was
resolved and the symbols are in different places, then it
segfaults |
| 15:42.23 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 15:42.38 |
Laniakea |
because there
are already absolute addresses in libstdc++ |
| 15:42.41 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
need/use -lm if it's a resolved symbol |
| 15:42.49 |
brlcad |
it's
resolved |
| 15:42.57 |
brlcad |
there's no
external linkage |
| 15:43.07 |
Laniakea |
well when
libstdc++ calls pow, the pow() code must be present |
| 15:43.24 |
Laniakea |
if the
executable code is missing at the given address and the address is
execute, it will segfault |
| 15:43.39 |
brlcad |
yes, and it
must either be present and link or run-time depending on how one
compile |
| 15:43.40 |
Laniakea |
so the libm
must be loaded by the ld.so or how it's called |
| 15:44.33 |
Laniakea |
and if you
upgrade your -lm the addresses may change and the it will execute
somewhere from half instruction or so and perform things that were
not intended |
| 15:44.33 |
Laniakea |
with likely
segfault resulting |
| 15:44.41 |
brlcad |
your
assertion that it'll segfault is only true if that address is
executed, which is wouldn't -- the dynamic linker would abort on
most systems |
| 15:44.53 |
brlcad |
you're still
referring to unresolved symbols |
| 15:44.54 |
Laniakea |
so the
dynamic linker tests the version? |
| 15:45.05 |
brlcad |
there is NO
dynamic linking occurring if it's resolved |
| 15:45.22 |
brlcad |
it has the
code to pow, it could inline it for all you care and make there be
no pow() at all |
| 15:45.42 |
Laniakea |
so the pow
code is stored inside of libstdc++? |
| 15:45.54 |
brlcad |
yes, some
form of it |
| 15:46.02 |
brlcad |
hence..
"resolved" |
| 15:46.08 |
Laniakea |
anyway,
brl-cad ./configure must be IMHO rewritten to include -lm on the
test for libstdc++ |
| 15:47.14 |
brlcad |
seriously,
that was what I'd said 10 minutes ago |
| 15:47.27 |
Laniakea |
you said I
can adjust it somewhere |
| 15:47.38 |
Laniakea |
or it could
test whether the symbol is resolved or not and adjust
accordingly |
| 15:48.13 |
Laniakea |
and also pass
-lm when linking with -stdc++, or not? |
| 15:48.27 |
brlcad |
ehm, I'm
familiar with what I wrote -- it's just a few lines above .. i said
it can be accommodated |
| 15:48.37 |
brlcad |
i.e. the fact
that your lib isn't resolved can be accommodated |
| 15:49.28 |
brlcad |
seriously,
what's with the tone? |
| 15:50.09 |
Laniakea |
tone is not
transmitted through electronic communication, that was proven by
some study |
| 15:50.53 |
Laniakea |
what was
interesting in the librt makefile there was double -lm, like -lm
-lm |
| 15:51.00 |
Laniakea |
that's an
anomaly, isn't it? |
| 15:51.15 |
Laniakea |
I'm trying to
recreate the Makefile now |
| 15:51.23 |
brlcad |
ok, arrogant
phrasing then .. |
| 15:51.34 |
brlcad |
either way,
it's not the first time |
| 15:51.45 |
Laniakea |
I don't want
to sound arrogant |
| 15:52.18 |
Laniakea |
It's the
property of electronic media. I read an article where they showed
that the impression people get from electronic communication has no
correlation what the writer intended |
| 15:52.31 |
Laniakea |
i. e., it's
50:50. Exactly like throwing dice. |
| 15:53.23 |
Laniakea |
yeah.
src/librt/Makefile: BN_LIBS = ${top_builddir}/src/libbu/libbu.la
-L${top_builddir}/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85 -lm -lm |
| 15:54.18 |
brlcad |
in general,
that's certainly true -- in practice, particularly on IRC, there
are trends and language that while each individual statement could
be taken several ways 50/50, the accumulation of them generate
personality |
| 15:54.49 |
Laniakea |
no they
showed that the emotions read out from electronic text are
completely random. No reliability or correlation at
all. |
| 15:55.06 |
brlcad |
that's the
arrogance I'm referring to, btw |
| 15:55.25 |
brlcad |
certainty
that you're right based on .. something you read |
| 15:55.27 |
Laniakea |
That's what
the scientific study concluded |
| 15:55.38 |
brlcad |
with little
no consideration that there are other data points? |
| 15:56.02 |
Laniakea |
well my
experience shows that the study was right |
| 15:56.23 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (6 files): partially working
tree implementation. still some bugs to work out... |
| 15:56.34 |
brlcad |
and if you
were to see a study that shows what I'd said was _also_
true? |
| 15:56.52 |
brlcad |
it's not a
black and white world, rarely ever |
| 15:57.12 |
Laniakea |
well then
assume I am arrogant |
| 15:57.24 |
Laniakea |
I have no
intention to be arrogant when writing this so you are getting a
false feeling |
| 15:57.56 |
brlcad |
i'm only
responding to your words, regardless of your intent (as perceived
or not) |
| 15:58.35 |
Laniakea |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:58.39 |
Laniakea |
now I am
trying this... |
| 15:58.45 |
brlcad |
that should
work |
| 15:59.01 |
Laniakea |
I had to do
this also with other programs under OpenBSD |
| 15:59.02 |
brlcad |
similarly
using your existing configure and just adding -lm to the
libs |
| 15:59.16 |
Laniakea |
which libs
where? In Makefile? configure? |
| 15:59.18 |
brlcad |
i.e., make
LIBS=-lm |
| 15:59.29 |
Laniakea |
aha |
| 15:59.36 |
Laniakea |
and LIBS
that's some generic mechanism of make? |
| 15:59.43 |
poolio |
brlcad:
bu_bomb always crashes my system. it stalls on saving stack
trace...and i have to kill -9 it. any suggestions? |
| 15:59.44 |
brlcad |
of
automake |
| 16:00.02 |
brlcad |
poolio: it's
waiting on the debugger to attach |
| 16:00.06 |
poolio |
ah |
| 16:00.35 |
poolio |
I guess once
the code is workign I shouldn't have to worry about it |
| 16:00.39 |
brlcad |
you can turn
that off, and probably should if you're debugging something that
causes it frequently |
| 16:01.58 |
brlcad |
poolio:
curious, is HAVE_KILL defined for you in include/brlcad_config.h
? |
| 16:02.39 |
poolio |
yes |
| 16:04.47 |
Laniakea |
now it booms
on: |
| 16:04.51 |
brlcad |
hrm, then the
indefinite wait is unintentional, the child should send the parent
a signal |
| 16:05.01 |
Laniakea |
/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl85.a(tclStrToD.o)(.text+0x226f):
In function `TclDoubleDigits': |
| 16:05.04 |
Laniakea |
/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/generic/tclStrToD.c:1822:
undefined reference to `log' |
| 16:05.14 |
Laniakea |
but why
doesn't it link with -lm when I specified LDFLAGS=-lm? |
| 16:05.38 |
brlcad |
what's your
link line? |
| 16:05.40 |
Laniakea |
make LIBS=-lm
gets it through this one, however |
| 16:06.01 |
brlcad |
oh, you mean
setting ldflags before configure |
| 16:06.06 |
Laniakea |
gcc -pipe -g
-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -Wl,-export-dynamic
tclAppInit.o -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix
-ltcl85 \ -Wl,-rpath,/usr/brlcad/lib -o tclsh |
| 16:06.50 |
Laniakea |
the more
places you set -lm in, the higher probability there is that it
links math library where you want ;-) |
| 16:07.05 |
brlcad |
tcl does it's
own thing with the flags |
| 16:07.14 |
brlcad |
their build
system overrides a lot |
| 16:07.36 |
Laniakea |
now, another
one: |
| 16:07.37 |
Laniakea |
gcc -pipe -g
-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -Wl,-export-dynamic
tkAppInit.o -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix -ltk85 \
-L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85
-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXss -lXext
-Wl,-rpath,/usr/brlcad/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib -o wish |
| 16:08.30 |
Laniakea |
/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/libtk85.a(tkEntry.o)(.text+0x4a2a):
In function `ComputeFormat': |
| 16:08.34 |
Laniakea |
/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/generic/tkEntry.c:4346:
undefined reference to `log10' |
| 16:08.51 |
Laniakea |
any idea how
I could fake -lm into the commandline? |
| 16:08.59 |
Laniakea |
alias
gcc="gcc -lm"? |
| 16:09.19 |
Laniakea |
doesn't work
:( |
| 16:09.32 |
brlcad |
heh, right,
that only works during link |
| 16:09.39 |
brlcad |
as either an
ldflag or a libs |
| 16:09.45 |
Laniakea |
replace
/usr/bin/gcc with a script :) |
| 16:10.13 |
brlcad |
it got past
tclsh/wish before you changed configure |
| 16:10.21 |
*** join/#brlcad cad49
(n=4a2edebf@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:14.38 |
poolio |
brlcad: where
does OVERLAP output come from? |
| 16:14.50 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: do
you know where the -lm should be added permanently in the brlcad
source? |
| 16:15.09 |
brlcad |
poolio: from
the application struct overlap handler |
| 16:15.49 |
brlcad |
Laniakea:
yes, though it should have worked as a configure
parameter |
| 16:16.06 |
brlcad |
./configure
LIBS=-lm --enable-optimized |
| 16:17.20 |
poolio |
brlcad: if
two objects are unioned, there shouldn't be any overlap,
correct? |
| 16:17.54 |
brlcad |
depends how
they are unioned |
| 16:18.08 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: OK,
trying that one... |
| 16:18.10 |
brlcad |
a union of
two regions could certainly have overlaps |
| 16:18.23 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: hrm, for some reason the
child isn't getting the signal so regardless, don't wait
indefinitely for the child to send the signal. only wait up to a
minute for a debugger to attach. |
| 16:18.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: a
union of two sphers that touch each other, does that have "overlap"
? |
| 16:18.48 |
brlcad |
shooting an
rt_i against two spheres can have an overlap (as it will make
regions for you) |
| 16:19.31 |
poolio |
well, I have
a combination, it's the union of two sphers that overlap. doesn't
that combination not have any overlap? |
| 16:20.05 |
brlcad |
it does only
because there are no regions defined |
| 16:20.24 |
poolio |
wait. so
would it be better to store it in a region? |
| 16:20.24 |
brlcad |
librt creates
regions for you, and happens to create them at the primitive level
if none are defined |
| 16:20.39 |
brlcad |
that, or
override the overlap handler |
| 16:20.50 |
poolio |
ah I see,
yeah. |
| 16:20.54 |
brlcad |
you don't
really care about overlaps |
| 16:21.07 |
brlcad |
just
define/set the callback like hit/miss |
| 16:21.14 |
poolio |
Ah I see, I
hadn't set a default overlap handler, it used the default, and
that's where the output came from |
| 16:21.20 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 16:21.22 |
poolio |
If I use a
region I don't get the overlap output |
| 16:21.25 |
brlcad |
bitches by
default :) |
| 16:21.39 |
poolio |
so I might as
well just do that instead of writing a null overlap
handler |
| 16:22.01 |
brlcad |
dunno, you
really don't need regions |
| 16:22.11 |
brlcad |
conceptually,
you're matching shapes |
| 16:22.19 |
brlcad |
which are
regionless groupings |
| 16:22.31 |
poolio |
yeah, but I
don't care how the shapes are stored |
| 16:22.46 |
brlcad |
if you used
that shape in something and that thing becomes a region, you won't
have overlaps |
| 16:22.50 |
poolio |
the point of
combinations is just two group the shapes and allow CSG
operations |
| 16:23.19 |
poolio |
So I'm just
saying in my program, it's easier as a region, (disregarding any
sort of conceptual reasons for using regions vs combinations
etc..) |
| 16:23.34 |
brlcad |
easier as in
less code? |
| 16:23.45 |
brlcad |
i'll give ya
that, sure :) |
| 16:23.58 |
brlcad |
though
setting the handler to null is just one line :) |
| 16:26.48 |
poolio |
yeah fair
enough |
| 16:27.01 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 16:27.08 |
brlcad |
problem
though.. that means your segments are wrong |
| 16:27.19 |
brlcad |
unless you
compensate |
| 16:27.23 |
brlcad |
which would
be tricky |
| 16:27.26 |
poolio |
jij |
| 16:27.28 |
poolio |
oops.
huh? |
| 16:27.55 |
poolio |
oh because
the segments aren't part of hit, they go to overlap? |
| 16:27.58 |
brlcad |
librt is
creating regions for you, so for two overlapping spheres, you're
not going to get one long segment, you'll get two overlapping
segments |
| 16:27.59 |
poolio |
so I need to
proces overlaps then |
| 16:28.16 |
brlcad |
or just make
it a region, and it'll do it for you |
| 16:28.30 |
poolio |
alright. so
I'd say just leave it as a region? |
| 16:28.35 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 16:28.52 |
brlcad |
btw, I forgot
about rt_bound_tree() |
| 16:29.07 |
brlcad |
computes the
bounding box of a given union tree |
| 16:29.28 |
brlcad |
might be of
use |
| 16:30.37 |
poolio |
well
rt_bound_tree() is called when you extrat the rt_i from the
db |
| 16:30.48 |
brlcad |
right |
| 16:30.58 |
brlcad |
it's more if
you needed to recompute based on in-mem geometry |
| 16:31.06 |
brlcad |
without
writing out to disk or somesuch |
| 16:31.09 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 16:31.23 |
poolio |
I'm doing a
lot of read from disk, modify, write over and over |
| 16:31.30 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: still
compiling... |
| 16:31.40 |
poolio |
It might be
better to just keep in memory and write |
| 16:31.52 |
poolio |
and eliminate
the need for reading from disck |
| 16:31.58 |
poolio |
hrmph. *disc
/ *disk |
| 16:32.13 |
brlcad |
poolio: grep
SIGCHLD /usr/include/sys/signal.h |
| 16:33.28 |
poolio |
nadda |
| 16:33.40 |
poolio |
oh
wait |
| 16:34.09 |
poolio |
nope, still
nothing. |
| 16:34.43 |
brlcad |
hm, that
could potentially be why |
| 16:34.49 |
brlcad |
grep -r
SIGCHLD /usr/include/* |
| 16:36.46 |
poolio |
it's in
/usr/include/asm-[generic,i486,x86_64]/signal.h |
| 16:37.52 |
brlcad |
k |
| 16:39.02 |
poolio |
would you
like more system info or are you good? |
| 16:40.59 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
I'm trying to write an object to a new database with a different
name. The issue I think I'm having is that I'm using db_rename()
and it modifies the in-memory database object list. Is there a way
to write an internal object with a different name without modifying
the db_i? Like just modify the dp? |
| 16:41.16 |
poolio |
(dp = struct
directory *) |
| 16:45.08 |
brlcad |
i'm good for
now, trying to see why the debugger would hang like
that |
| 16:45.19 |
brlcad |
s/debugger/backtrace routine/ |
| 16:45.45 |
poolio |
alright, just
tell me if I can do anything |
| 16:51.03 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if libstdc++ fails to link, see
if it's because of libm (encountered by Laniakea on
OpenBSD) |
| 16:56.01 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: still
compiling... :) |
| 16:57.31 |
brlcad |
that should
take care of it |
| 16:57.43 |
brlcad |
it trys with
-lm if it fails without it |
| 16:58.19 |
brlcad |
though I
suspect you might have a bigger system issue if libc is the same
way.. then setting a global libs (like you're running now) is
really required |
| 16:58.23 |
brlcad |
and specific
to that plat |
| 17:01.26 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
having an issue if I rename a directory * pointer, it somehow
modifies the in-memory database representation? |
| 17:07.54 |
MinuteElectron |
silly css
foolishness. |
| 17:09.13 |
brlcad |
poolio: a
directory pointer? how you renaming it? |
| 17:09.39 |
poolio |
First I had
db_rename() |
| 17:09.45 |
poolio |
and I saw
that rehashes the db_i |
| 17:10.05 |
poolio |
so now I'm
using RT_DIR_FREE_NAMEP() and RT_DIR_SET_NAMEP() macros |
| 17:27.13 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
still stuck. Can't see why I'm getting the bug :\ |
| 17:27.19 |
brlcad |
poolio: still
not sure I understand the problem .. those macros only set the name
of the directory pointer in memory |
| 17:29.15 |
poolio |
Yeah, that's
what I thought. |
| 17:29.32 |
poolio |
The problem
is that I run a routine that copies a shape to a new databse with a
different name |
| 17:29.52 |
poolio |
the issue is
when I re-run this on the same shape and try to copy it toa new
database with a different name, I get a db_lookup failure on the
shape I"m trying to copy |
| 17:34.46 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:35.14 |
brlcad |
poolio: can
you make a simple test case snippet that shows this? |
| 17:35.21 |
poolio |
brlcad: just
did |
| 17:35.24 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c
population.c): more reasonable debugging output |
| 17:35.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
just updated CVS |
| 17:35.30 |
poolio |
Well it's not
a simple test case |
| 17:35.36 |
poolio |
but it's the
issue in the context of the entire program... |
| 17:35.37 |
brlcad |
yeah, i mean
stand-alone |
| 17:35.52 |
brlcad |
still should
be able to reproduce it with just a couple lines, no? |
| 17:36.11 |
poolio |
I'm willing
to bet the test case will work fine though :P |
| 17:37.15 |
brlcad |
I suspect the
lookup fails because you've changed the name, and either don't
write it out correctly/fully or are otherwise creating an
inconsistent db_i |
| 17:38.36 |
poolio |
yeah that's
probably it, just have been looking pretty hard and haven't found
anything |
| 17:43.16 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: now
it compiles, thanks |
| 18:13.12 |
Laniakea |
brlcad:
compiles and installs, but explodes when mged is ran: |
| 18:13.13 |
Laniakea |
version
conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 18:13.14 |
Laniakea |
MGED
Aborted. |
| 18:13.36 |
Laniakea |
rt however
runs |
| 18:13.48 |
Laniakea |
(at least
prints the help) |
| 18:13.55 |
Laniakea |
rtedge as
well |
| 18:14.01 |
Laniakea |
rtweight
too |
| 18:31.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
have a test case if you have a minute. |
| 18:32.46 |
poolio |
brlcad: how
would you like it? pastebin? |
| 18:36.00 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: capture stderr so that
the kern.exec message is not displayed (on os x) during
sysctl |
| 18:36.37 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: make sure the string we're
trying to print isn't null or empty, don't write the stacktrace
message to the tty. |
| 18:38.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: |
| 18:38.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
flush the output before sending the signal so that the parent
should be |
| 18:38.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
guaranteed to have something to read. this should hopefully fix a
race |
| 18:38.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
condition where the child would never get the signal to continue.
fixed </> |
| 18:38.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
logic bug so we now actually wait a minute instead of immediately
continuing. |
| 18:40.28 |
poolio |
brlcad:
Fixed. thanks! |
| 18:40.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/mged/cmd.c src/mged/cmd.h NEWS): make
'bomb' an actual new command, passing through to bu_bomb(). very
useful for debugging, tracing, and aborting from scripts
abruptly. |
| 18:41.13 |
poolio |
(bu_bomb, not
my annoying whatever it is) |
| 18:46.05 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: make all platforms use the same
code for creating std in/out/err file channel handlers, using the
newer Tcl_MakeFileChannel instead of Tcl_CreateFileHandler. keep
track of how many events we process for debugging. |
| 18:49.05 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
guessing rt_db_get/put_internal does something to the database as
well as the directory pointer |
| 19:01.18 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/wODjDo87.html
have a problem here |
| 19:01.29 |
IriX64 |
brb |
| 19:02.14 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601584.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:02.28 |
IriX64 |
how do I fix
that |
| 19:03.50 |
IriX64 |
if I enable
tcl-build will they co-exist? |
| 19:08.25 |
IriX64 |
trying
it |
| 19:31.04 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 19:32.25 |
*** join/#brlcad iday_
(n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:32.26 |
iraytrace |
Hola Que
tal? |
| 19:37.36 |
*** join/#brlcad cadguy
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 19:46.54 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron) |
| 20:44.19 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
off for the day, but maybe sometime earlier tomorrow you can give
me a hand troubleshooting this. I've got a test case that
demonstrates the problem too |
| 20:59.01 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-97-102.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:23.50 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/controlpanel.png
heh it works :) |
| 21:28.26 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 21:28.38 |
cadguy |
Good
afternoon all |
| 22:06.41 |
brlcad |
poolio: okay,
sounds good .. post up the test case somewhere where I can get to
it |
| 23:04.18 |
``Erik |
bahhhhhhhh |
| 23:04.30 |
``Erik |
I forgot I
turned off my hot water tank when I left, so now I have to wait for
my shower *sigh* |
| 23:11.56 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/works.png
:) as i said it works |
| 23:31.09 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601584.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:38.51 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:47.34 |
louipc |
neat-o |
| 23:57.26 |
IriX64 |
louipc?
Toronto? |
| 00:42.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:43.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:51.50 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726833.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:52.07 |
IriX64 |
hi |
| 00:55.07 |
IriX64 |
I wonder if
this has been reported, creating a metaball crashes
mged |
| 00:55.42 |
IriX64 |
version 7.8.4
is mine |
| 05:30.00 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-252-68.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 05:30.08 |
thing0 |
hey
yall |
| 05:36.52 |
brlcad |
howdy
thing0 |
| 05:45.24 |
thing0 |
how you been
brlcad? |
| 05:45.35 |
brlcad |
pretty good,
busy like crazy |
| 05:45.40 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 05:45.46 |
thing0 |
yeah work is
quite intense |
| 05:45.52 |
thing0 |
barely get
time to stop and eat |
| 05:45.54 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 05:47.41 |
brlcad |
oh, my belly
indicates that I do still find time for that |
| 05:47.52 |
brlcad |
though I
don't usually stop even when eating ;) |
| 05:48.50 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 05:48.52 |
thing0 |
yeah |
| 05:49.06 |
thing0 |
it just means
I have to wonder back to the office to get the food |
| 05:49.17 |
thing0 |
I worked
through lunch yesterday getting materials for a job |
| 05:49.36 |
thing0 |
but I fly out
this wednesday |
| 05:49.42 |
thing0 |
so I get to
have a break for a while |
| 05:51.18 |
thing0 |
had two paid
days off last week |
| 05:51.25 |
thing0 |
cause of acid
plant startup |
| 05:51.39 |
thing0 |
it started up
with no issues once one of the lines were unblocked |
| 05:52.12 |
thing0 |
it is very
good for the company I work for |
| 05:52.12 |
thing0 |
shows we are
competent |
| 05:52.12 |
thing0 |
;) |
| 05:55.00 |
brlcad |
acid
plant? |
| 05:55.18 |
brlcad |
you're
trippin'? :) |
| 05:57.11 |
thing0 |
hehe |
| 05:57.16 |
thing0 |
that's why
weren |
| 05:57.23 |
thing0 |
't allowed at
work |
| 05:57.26 |
thing0 |
incase of
poisoning |
| 07:27.50 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-252-68.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 07:29.12 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-160.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:17.43 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:21.21 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-206-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:31.54 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-114-246.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:14.45 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-206-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:22.08 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-114-246.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:54.23 |
louipc |
morning |
| 16:40.54 |
brlcad |
howdy |
| 18:02.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 18:18.41 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878962.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:46.04 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-110-150.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:15.44 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-160.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:30.58 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878962.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:32.17 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/hex.c
a little routine written by a friend of my son's to produce
capscrews to whatever pitch you want writing out a .g file for
you |
| 20:37.06 |
brlcad |
IriX64: erm,
where'd that come from? |
| 20:37.27 |
brlcad |
seems
actually like a useful tool with the right polish |
| 20:37.46 |
IriX64 |
friend of my
sons |
| 20:38.22 |
IriX64 |
just talked
to him, says its yours if you want it |
| 20:39.11 |
brlcad |
curious
how/why he wrote it |
| 20:39.49 |
brlcad |
also curious
that he chose the ascii format instead of libwdb directly
:) |
| 20:39.58 |
IriX64 |
I was fooling
with brlcad and he decided to help, he's really good |
| 20:40.08 |
IriX64 |
asc2g thats
why, we're lazy :) |
| 20:42.36 |
brlcad |
can you get
jamie to post it to the patches tracker? |
| 20:42.44 |
brlcad |
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804 |
| 20:43.09 |
brlcad |
er,
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804 |
| 20:43.30 |
IriX64 |
he's doing
it |
| 20:44.06 |
IriX64 |
why
patches? |
| 20:44.23 |
IriX64 |
this is a
littl tool |
| 20:45.48 |
IriX64 |
Irssi is fun
:) |
| 20:46.13 |
brlcad |
it's a
change, changes go into the patches tracker |
| 20:46.34 |
IriX64 |
he thanks
you |
| 20:46.35 |
brlcad |
that gives a
means to comment on and document where first-additions come from
when it's someone new |
| 20:46.49 |
brlcad |
thanks me? he
wrote it |
| 20:46.54 |
brlcad |
pretty nifty
tool |
| 20:46.54 |
IriX64 |
understood |
| 20:47.03 |
IriX64 |
he's *very
good |
| 20:47.08 |
brlcad |
might have to
update it to libwdb though |
| 20:47.28 |
IriX64 |
do what you
want to it |
| 20:47.53 |
IriX64 |
remember if
its not taking up disk space it's broken |
| 20:49.22 |
IriX64 |
permission to
do a /ver on some of the channel members (I'm testing a little
bit) |
| 20:50.33 |
louipc |
neat |
| 20:50.45 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64: You
can do it on me. |
| 20:50.47 |
louipc |
what kind of
screw does it do? |
| 20:50.54 |
IriX64 |
thankyou |
| 20:51.01 |
louipc |
I was
actually thinking of doing something like that eventually
hah |
| 20:51.07 |
IriX64 |
louipc i'm
not sure ive never used it |
| 20:51.59 |
IriX64 |
MinuteElectron i386? time to trade it in
:) |
| 20:52.33 |
MinuteElectron |
it
is? |
| 20:52.37 |
IriX64 |
0.8.11 is
relased i'm running it here |
| 20:52.52 |
IriX64 |
and freebsd
eh? |
| 20:53.04 |
MinuteElectron |
It is
brlcad's server. |
| 20:53.17 |
IriX64 |
is it
really? |
| 20:53.21 |
MinuteElectron |
I m using it
for IRC so that people can contact me about problems with the
website. |
| 20:53.33 |
IriX64 |
ahh I
understand |
| 20:53.53 |
MinuteElectron |
Well, not
just IRC> |
| 20:54.00 |
IriX64 |
of
course |
| 20:54.03 |
MinuteElectron |
I use it to
edit the website and the website is hosted on it to. |
| 20:54.15 |
louipc |
I think
debian only goes to i386 too |
| 20:54.37 |
*** join/#brlcad JRogers
(n=unkown@207.164.187.115) |
| 20:54.58 |
IriX64 |
err
:P |
| 20:55.05 |
MinuteElectron |
What is the
one after i386? |
| 20:55.19 |
IriX64 |
z80
;) |
| 20:55.21 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 20:56.20 |
louipc |
i586
i686 |
| 20:56.57 |
louipc |
pentium III
is i686 |
| 20:57.14 |
louipc |
whish is
pretty old |
| 20:57.21 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 20:59.14 |
MinuteElectron |
I have the
urge to find out about my computer. |
| 21:00.53 |
louipc |
the best way
is to build it yourself :D |
| 21:01.14 |
louipc |
then you get
all the manuals for your motherboard etc |
| 21:01.16 |
MinuteElectron |
I bought the
motherboard second hand. |
| 21:01.22 |
MinuteElectron |
It is an ePox
or somthing |
| 21:01.33 |
MinuteElectron |
No manual -
just a disk |
| 21:01.49 |
louipc |
then install
unix or a unix-like OS |
| 21:01.56 |
MinuteElectron |
I have, on
the other hard drive. |
| 21:02.12 |
MinuteElectron |
But I can't
get it to work with my wireless network. |
| 21:02.12 |
louipc |
yeah I didn't
know anything until I started using linux, but I still know very
little |
| 21:02.54 |
louipc |
yeah wireless
is an issue because they only release drivers for
windows |
| 21:03.14 |
MinuteElectron |
ubuntu comes
with the drivers, the trouble is it won't connect to my wirless
network (or anyone elses for that matter). |
| 21:04.39 |
louipc |
they try to
go about it by emulating windows in a kernel module called
'ndiswrapper' that you can load windows drivers on. |
| 21:04.53 |
MinuteElectron |
The druvers
work. |
| 21:05.05 |
MinuteElectron |
And I can't
be pissed. |
| 21:05.48 |
MinuteElectron |
I like
Unix-like OSs. |
| 21:05.58 |
louipc |
:D |
| 21:06.03 |
MinuteElectron |
And I want to
use them. |
| 21:06.07 |
MinuteElectron |
But Windows
Just Works (tm). |
| 21:06.12 |
louipc |
how do you
know if the driver works when you can't connect? |
| 21:06.26 |
MinuteElectron |
Because it
detects the networks. |
| 21:07.22 |
louipc |
yeah
unix-like OSs are a pain in the ass to configure etc... but they
don't crash and freeze as much :D |
| 21:07.27 |
MinuteElectron |
The only
thing I hate about Ubuntu: it loaded GRUB onto my computer and now
I have to select windows every time I boot up. |
| 21:07.54 |
louipc |
you can
change the grub settings to boot into windows
automatically |
| 21:08.00 |
MinuteElectron |
I
can? |
| 21:08.00 |
louipc |
yep |
| 21:08.25 |
louipc |
and if you
want to boot into something else you just hold shift or something
to get to the menu |
| 21:09.35 |
louipc |
I hardly ever
reboot so I haven't really looked into how to do it heh |
| 21:10.08 |
MinuteElectron |
hehe, I wish
I was in that sort of position. |
| 21:10.08 |
louipc |
but at least
you can have windows selected as default. That's easy and
straightforward |
| 21:11.06 |
louipc |
do you have a
/boot/grub/menu.lst in your ubuntu install? |
| 21:11.57 |
MinuteElectron |
*shrug* I
never boot into it and I can't tell from inside windows since it is
in a Linux file system. |
| 21:12.44 |
louipc |
MinuteElectron: install Archlinux in it
instead then |
| 21:12.56 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 21:13.59 |
MinuteElectron |
heh |
| 21:14.54 |
MinuteElectron |
louipc: What
Desktop environment does it come with by default? |
| 21:15.00 |
louipc |
it'll
increase your nerd factor by 3x |
| 21:15.05 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878962.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:15.09 |
louipc |
MinuteElectron: none, you
choose |
| 21:15.27 |
louipc |
yet it's
pretty easy to use |
| 21:15.53 |
louipc |
so you can
use gnome, or kde, or whatever you want really after doing the
basic installation |
| 21:16.11 |
louipc |
but... about
the wireless I'm not sure |
| 21:16.35 |
MinuteElectron |
wireless is
pretty much essential. |
| 21:16.53 |
MinuteElectron |
without it I
have no internet as I am not allowed to trail cabling all around
the house |
| 21:18.24 |
louipc |
yep well you
could set it up via cable then if it works |
| 21:18.34 |
louipc |
do you know
what drivers you need? |
| 21:19.03 |
MinuteElectron |
zd1211 |
| 21:19.11 |
MinuteElectron |
I don't have
a long enough cable. |
| 21:19.41 |
MinuteElectron |
Wow, fate. I
clicked Random page on the wiki and http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Networkmanager
came up. |
| 21:20.10 |
louipc |
heheh |
| 21:20.10 |
louipc |
nice |
| 21:23.00 |
brlcad |
louipc: it
looks like it makes standard hex and allen bolts, nuts, and washers
using descriptors like M10x50, M8, etc as well as generaized number
of faces, height/width |
| 21:23.37 |
IriX64 |
I know
nothing about it other than he assures me it works |
| 21:23.45 |
louipc |
yeah I
noticed the washers |
| 21:24.48 |
brlcad |
pretty useful
actually |
| 21:24.53 |
louipc |
ah ok I
see |
| 21:25.22 |
brlcad |
very similar
to the existing mk_bolt tool |
| 21:25.27 |
louipc |
could do with
button head cap screws (bhcs), flat head and all those other
types |
| 21:25.33 |
brlcad |
have to
compare how they both do what they do |
| 21:25.39 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 21:26.05 |
IriX64 |
says he'll
modify it |
| 21:27.00 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
src/mk/mk_bolt.c is the existing bolt generator, if he matches
those other features it provides, it could probably just replace it
outright with a better version |
| 21:27.12 |
IriX64 |
just a
sec |
| 21:27.28 |
brlcad |
might show
him how to go about using libwdb too :) |
| 21:27.42 |
IriX64 |
he didn't
look at mk_bolt, but he'll look and do what he can |
| 21:28.13 |
brlcad |
his tools
already "better" in a couple ways, so it would be nice to see it
improved |
| 21:28.16 |
IriX64 |
I invited him
to join but he's shy |
| 21:28.43 |
brlcad |
aww, he
should |
| 21:28.58 |
IriX64 |
heh i don't
pressure children |
| 21:29.51 |
IriX64 |
hangs out in
#linux on efnet |
| 21:31.02 |
brlcad |
then he
already knows the ropes ;) |
| 21:31.07 |
IriX64 |
and chains
:) |
| 21:31.33 |
JRogers |
brlcad: Is
this Sean? |
| 21:31.33 |
brlcad |
he's clearly
capable coder to get as far as he's got, he could work on brl-cad
more :) |
| 21:31.40 |
brlcad |
JRogers:
howdy, and yes |
| 21:32.18 |
brlcad |
ah, docbook,
hoey! :) |
| 21:32.23 |
JRogers |
brlcad: I
just got your email in response to the Doc Writer. Im interested in
taking it on |
| 21:32.30 |
JRogers |
yes |
| 21:32.41 |
brlcad |
excellent |
| 21:32.41 |
IriX64 |
brlcad: very
capable but what he works on is up to him :) |
| 21:32.51 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
that's always the case in open source |
| 21:33.15 |
brlcad |
you can ask,
you can beg, you can bribe, but you can't make anyone do anything
;) |
| 21:33.27 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 21:33.33 |
louipc |
or
volunteering :P |
| 21:34.15 |
brlcad |
JRogers: so
what do you need from me to get started? |
| 21:34.17 |
IriX64 |
but if you
want something done the absolute fastest least effort way give it
to a (competent) lazy slob to do ;) |
| 21:35.05 |
JRogers |
I have been
looking at some of the docs that i could find. Is there somewhere
that holds the whole collection? |
| 21:35.24 |
brlcad |
not really,
which is part of the problem |
| 21:35.30 |
brlcad |
they are in
different places in different formats |
| 21:35.38 |
brlcad |
and depending
on the format usually determines where they are at |
| 21:36.05 |
brlcad |
the manpages
are spread throughout the sources, usually provided alongside the
tool's code (and there are about 300 manual pages) |
| 21:36.57 |
brlcad |
the html
pages are in the doc/html directory and includes a mix of tutorial,
overview, release notes, and more |
| 21:37.28 |
brlcad |
there are
text docs in the top-level (which will probably remain text), but
also in the doc/ dir which could be docbookified or not |
| 21:38.00 |
JRogers |
ok... Are you
going to want to have the docs integrated right into the source
tree and set to compile with the main progs? |
| 21:38.05 |
brlcad |
there are
troff docs in the doc/ dir too, a long guide to mged, and a few
other tools |
| 21:39.16 |
brlcad |
there is a
massive tutorial series that is natively in ms word format, which
is what you find pdf's of on the website for numbers 1, 2, 3, and
4 |
| 21:39.28 |
brlcad |
JRogers:
yeah, that will be ideally what we end up with |
| 21:39.40 |
brlcad |
so they can
be version controlled, updated as needed with the sources,
etc |
| 21:40.07 |
brlcad |
probably add
a configure option to enable/disable their generation since they'll
depend on external tools (unless you have another idea for managing
that) |
| 21:40.14 |
JRogers |
ok.. Let me
start by getting a copy of the source tree and take a look from
there. |
| 21:40.48 |
brlcad |
if you want a
document to "start with", that'd probably be the html doc link #1
on the website, it's a fairly brief overview with a handful of
images |
| 21:41.10 |
brlcad |
I have that
in english and italian, and maybe a copy in spanish
somewhere |
| 21:41.54 |
JRogers |
Latest
Docbook standard (v5 i believe) |
| 21:42.40 |
brlcad |
it's still
candidate release, but good enough :) |
| 21:43.55 |
brlcad |
there's
something to be said for considering docbook lite, have you used
it? |
| 21:44.05 |
JRogers |
ok... Let me
start taking a look around and see what im up against. Any idea's
on what options re formats your going to want. I would guess HTML,
PDF. |
| 21:44.31 |
JRogers |
Not really
used it much but i am willing to use whatever you want |
| 21:44.34 |
brlcad |
yeah, html,
pdf, and plain txt for starters |
| 21:44.59 |
brlcad |
i'm not stuck
on lite, i've just seen it in use more and more |
| 21:45.43 |
brlcad |
probably
makes it simpler for document writers, but then of course
constrains how it can be used |
| 21:46.33 |
JRogers |
Which ever
way you want to go... To me its just all a subset of xml anyways
and the only difference to me is what tags are
available |
| 21:48.47 |
JRogers |
ok.. just
took a quick look at the light standard and its fine by me.. Why
don't we start with that and see if it will cover our
needs |
| 21:49.09 |
brlcad |
e.g. http://www.producingoss.com/ was
written using lite |
| 21:49.51 |
brlcad |
though they
didn't use any images/diagrams |
| 21:53.44 |
JRogers |
ok... that
should be enough to get me started. Are the msword docs (that the 4
pdfs where made from) on sourceforge? |
| 21:55.05 |
brlcad |
they're not
really available anywhere as i've not wanted those to "get out"
cept to folks working on the project (on tasks like
this) |
| 21:55.48 |
JRogers |
ok.
eventually i will need a copy of those. |
| 21:58.21 |
JRogers |
if possible
though can you email me the first one |
| 22:00.14 |
louipc |
yar I
converted one to html |
| 22:00.21 |
louipc |
no images
though :( |
| 22:02.05 |
JRogers |
that will do.
i might be able to pull the images off the pdf |
| 22:03.13 |
louipc |
http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGEDs.html |
| 22:04.35 |
brlcad |
louipc: cool,
did I know that? |
| 22:05.35 |
louipc |
I just did it
right now :D |
| 22:06.17 |
brlcad |
nice, that's
a decent start towards docbook format |
| 22:06.40 |
brlcad |
just needs to
be broken out into all the separate sections, reference images,
tables, etc |
| 22:07.05 |
JRogers |
he makes it
sound so easy... lol |
| 22:07.16 |
louipc |
there's
pdftohtml in a package called poppler |
| 22:07.43 |
brlcad |
no image
extraction though, eh? |
| 22:08.44 |
JRogers |
ok.. i gotta
take off but i will get started on looking through some of this
stuff tonight. |
| 22:09.06 |
louipc |
it does have
image extraction but that one I did is kind of odd just a
sec |
| 22:10.11 |
brlcad |
JRogers:
cool, and thanks for jumping in |
| 22:10.29 |
JRogers |
no worries..
i was bored and needed a new project to work on. |
| 22:10.36 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 22:10.53 |
JRogers |
louipc: if
you get one with images can you just replace the other
one |
| 22:11.04 |
brlcad |
we're hurting
for bodies, with a line of wants and demands at the door
:) |
| 22:11.24 |
JRogers |
once i get
started im going to need devel access to the source tree for ver
control |
| 22:11.26 |
louipc |
http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/ |
| 22:11.47 |
brlcad |
JRogers: yep,
understood, just let me know when and send me your sf
id |
| 22:11.57 |
louipc |
I can play
around with it |
| 22:12.01 |
louipc |
JRogers:
sure |
| 22:12.36 |
JRogers |
cool. l8t
all |
| 22:13.41 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 |
| 22:13.48 |
IriX64 |
some
pictures |
| 22:16.37 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
is the current backup procedure for your server? |
| 22:20.03 |
brlcad |
the server
performs (or at least attempt to perform) a level zero every week,
as well as local daily backups of most of the databases |
| 22:20.39 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm, so the
website is safe if the server crashes? |
| 22:20.45 |
brlcad |
louipc:
interesting, though it looks like that pdf was created with
background images underlayed |
| 22:20.47 |
MinuteElectron |
s/crashes/dies |
| 22:20.58 |
brlcad |
so you can't
directly extract the images without the original |
| 22:21.14 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: yeah, it should
be |
| 22:21.18 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, |
| 22:21.21 |
MinuteElectron |
that is
good |
| 22:21.28 |
louipc |
:D |
| 22:22.02 |
brlcad |
the server it
backs up to also has it's own backup processes that go on, full
off-site backups usually once a year and local backups every few
months |
| 22:22.09 |
IriX64 |
louipc: have
you thought of bringing the images up and screen capturing them to
a file? |
| 22:22.20 |
louipc |
IriX64: what
do you mean? |
| 22:22.32 |
brlcad |
louipc: you
want to try off of the original .doc? |
| 22:22.46 |
brlcad |
see if you
can make a different pdf that will capture the images better on
conversion? |
| 22:22.49 |
louipc |
I can capture
them in pdf2html I can specify a zoom level too, |
| 22:22.54 |
IriX64 |
bing the
document up on screen and take a screen shot of the area you're
interested n |
| 22:23.11 |
louipc |
pdftohtml I
mean |
| 22:23.32 |
IriX64 |
no something
to take a shot of a screen area like i did mine |
| 22:23.36 |
brlcad |
louipc: I
mean the fact that it pulled the whole page here:
http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED015.png |
| 22:23.37 |
louipc |
brlcad: sure
I can try I will have to look up how to do it |
| 22:23.44 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 22:24.01 |
brlcad |
was that an
option, or is there really no separate image for that
screenshot |
| 22:24.14 |
louipc |
I can try to
get it |
| 22:24.27 |
brlcad |
it certainly
looks modified and not just extracted |
| 22:24.38 |
brlcad |
because the
bit depth/quality is wrong |
| 22:24.48 |
louipc |
yeah it's the
zoom |
| 22:24.57 |
louipc |
I
suppose |
| 22:32.09 |
IriX64 |
If you like
those pictures, I'll see what I can do about getting this thing
working with a handfull of dlls and something like Xming or
Xwin32 |
| 22:33.16 |
louipc |
might just be
the rendering library |
| 22:40.36 |
brlcad |
the coverity
report is interesting |
| 22:40.47 |
brlcad |
can't wait
for them to get the whole thing indexed properly |
| 22:41.12 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Would
you mind taking a look at htpd.conf for my.brlcad.org - the
.htaccess rewrite rules aren't working. |
| 22:41.14 |
brlcad |
(it aborted
after processing tk) |
| 22:41.31 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: sure |
| 22:41.37 |
MinuteElectron |
thanks |
| 22:44.02 |
MinuteElectron |
HOw long does
it take to delete a single shortcut... |
| 22:44.11 |
MinuteElectron |
Windows is
weird. |
| 22:44.20 |
louipc |
hahh |
| 22:44.45 |
MinuteElectron |
1 minute and
counting. |
| 22:46.56 |
MinuteElectron |
And now
windows has hung. OMG |
| 22:47.11 |
MinuteElectron |
Fixed. |
| 22:51.34 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: I don't see any reason why
it shouldn't be working |
| 22:51.37 |
brlcad |
did you turn
the engine on? |
| 22:51.57 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
no. |
| 22:52.14 |
brlcad |
<IfModule
mod_rewrite.c> |
| 22:52.15 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.20 |
MinuteElectron |
Ok. |
| 22:52.23 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.25 |
brlcad |
etc |
| 22:52.28 |
MinuteElectron |
Wait, I
did. |
| 22:53.26 |
brlcad |
let me enable
it for all |
| 22:53.30 |
brlcad |
see if it
helps |
| 22:55.10 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/photonmappedhavoc.png
and I'm sorry I interrupted your conversation, sometimes I get
too excited for my own good |
| 22:56.09 |
IriX64 |
roses need
watering :) |
| 22:56.13 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: try now |
| 22:56.45 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 22:56.56 |
MinuteElectron |
no
luck |
| 22:59.57 |
brlcad |
hm, are you
sure the problem isn't your rewrite rule? |
| 23:00.31 |
brlcad |
i know
mediawiki, for example, hijacks the rewrite (if you try to do what
their docs say, it often won't work as-is) |
| 23:01.35 |
MinuteElectron |
one
sec |
| 23:03.26 |
brlcad |
i've got
mediawiki set up elsewhere on that server with good settings, so
there's something to compare against |
| 23:07.39 |
MinuteElectron |
I have
configured MediaWiki - still no luck. |
| 23:14.48 |
louipc |
hmm yeah I
can't seem to get it to convert nicely it's a big buggy |
| 23:14.55 |
louipc |
*bit |
| 23:25.11 |
MinuteElectron |
Work on the
site in the morning. Goodnight. |
| 23:27.17 |
louipc |
goodnight |
| 23:36.06 |
IriX64 |
heh it works
with xming :) |
| 23:53.30 |
brlcad |
thanks
MinuteElectron, I'll take a look and see if I can get it to
go |
| 00:58.05 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593811.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:01.26 |
poolio |
``Erik: This
response is quite late, but you can ask away and I shall respond if
I'm still here when you ask |
| 01:03.39 |
IriX64 |
maybe I'll
play ``Erik and ask ;) |
| 01:06.50 |
poolio |
You can if I
want, I'm just a bad coder that got lucky ;) |
| 01:07.01 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:07.48 |
poolio |
IriX64: Where
are you from? |
| 01:08.03 |
IriX64 |
Canada
Ontario |
| 01:09.22 |
poolio |
Ah cool. And
what do you do for a living? |
| 01:09.37 |
IriX64 |
I don't live
I exist :) |
| 01:10.01 |
IriX64 |
disability
pension at the moment (sigh) |
| 01:10.21 |
poolio |
So you work
on getting brl-cad working in windows for fun? |
| 01:10.26 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 01:10.34 |
poolio |
Very nice of
you |
| 01:10.49 |
IriX64 |
heh thanks
for the nice project to play with |
| 01:11.14 |
poolio |
heh, wasn't
me. Do you do any CAD work or just enjoy trying to get BRL-CAD
working? |
| 01:11.45 |
IriX64 |
no cad work,
had a course in Autocad but i sucked at it, love trying to learn
brl-cad |
| 01:12.54 |
poolio |
Cool man,
best of luck :) Ever try to just run it in a Unix-based
environment? |
| 01:13.24 |
IriX64 |
retired my
redhat-5.1 ages ago sorry |
| 01:14.31 |
poolio |
it's all
good. Windows has its uses, but I'm a coder and really need my
Linux environment. I can't imagine trying to code in a full-fledged
IDE after so many years with my trusty vim |
| 01:14.54 |
IriX64 |
I like the
best of both worlds |
| 01:14.58 |
poolio |
hmm, I guess
that's unrelated to windows, mainly my perception of it and the
fact that I last used VisualC++ |
| 01:15.32 |
IriX64 |
i have visual
studio and watcom both decent environments |
| 01:19.21 |
poolio |
never heard
of watcom, but i'm thinking of getting a wacom tablet |
| 01:20.00 |
IriX64 |
digitizing
versus mouseclicking |
| 01:21.03 |
poolio |
Well I'm
going to college and am getting an ultraportable. I figure that a
tablet would be useful for typing up notes and say drafting
designs/flow charts |
| 01:21.35 |
IriX64 |
typing on a
digitizer , what'd i miss |
| 01:24.23 |
poolio |
huh? |
| 01:24.51 |
IriX64 |
how do you
type on a digitizing tablet? |
| 01:25.08 |
IriX64 |
ahh i see the
ultraportable |
| 01:25.11 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:26.41 |
poolio |
It's not like
a mousepad-sized digitizer, it's built into the screen |
| 01:27.09 |
IriX64 |
oh
ok |
| 02:00.08 |
IriX64 |
have i shown
you this ---> http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcadinaction |
| 02:03.22 |
poolio |
+.png, but
yeah you have. |
| 02:03.47 |
poolio |
Also, may I
suggest creating some sort of thumbnail gallery with your BRL-CAD
pics, and writing comments describing what's happening in the
pics? |
| 02:04.11 |
poolio |
You bombard
this channel with updates, maybe it'd be better to start a blog to
keep us up to date and that way you can show it to other people as
well that are not on IRC |
| 02:05.31 |
IriX64 |
will take it
into consideration |
| 02:06.17 |
poolio |
you could
throw it on blogspot or something and get it hosted for free and
with an already made interface. seems pretty handy and that way you
can check back on your progress, or see archived/older screen
shots |
| 02:07.49 |
IriX64 |
like
www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos ? |
| 02:08.13 |
poolio |
That site
never works for me, something to do with my iceweasel installation,
but maybe |
| 02:08.18 |
IriX64 |
was trying to
stay away from sites that not all browsers can access |
| 02:08.46 |
poolio |
Heh, I cant
access that one, but whatever floats your boat |
| 02:09.22 |
IriX64 |
my boat sank
:) |
| 02:21.48 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/iAb3gc15.html
<---- whats this on 7.10? |
| 02:22.37 |
louipc |
yeah the msn
spaces have xml oddities, microsoft going outside of spec I
guess |
| 02:23.00 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
that's the same problems as before, you've got messed up inclusion
orders and interfaces enabled that shouldn't be given the
compilation settings |
| 02:23.07 |
IriX64 |
heh if i were
paranoid, i'd think they did it on purpose :) |
| 02:23.29 |
IriX64 |
so you
compile one *or the other? |
| 02:23.54 |
brlcad |
depends
entirely on the platform and the stuff available |
| 02:24.09 |
brlcad |
suffice to
say, we've had this same talk and even over that same
error |
| 02:24.21 |
IriX64 |
soon as you
mention platform I have to retire (sigh) |
| 02:24.25 |
brlcad |
it's not
going to get fixed anytime soon until you're willing to look into
it more methodically |
| 02:24.49 |
IriX64 |
lets go, you
drive |
| 02:25.14 |
IriX64 |
ill checkout
a whole new tree, just a sec |
| 02:25.19 |
brlcad |
do you have a
clean checkout of cvs head? |
| 02:25.31 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
needed .. and it MUST remain unmodified |
| 02:25.46 |
IriX64 |
got it give
me 20 minutes |
| 02:26.27 |
louipc |
I keep one
directory for clean checkout/update and one for
building/modifications |
| 02:26.41 |
IriX64 |
ill adopt
that |
| 02:26.44 |
louipc |
just copy
over |
| 02:27.00 |
IriX64 |
just rename
the bloody directory :) |
| 02:27.09 |
IriX64 |
with mc its
easy |
| 02:27.12 |
louipc |
yep |
| 02:27.40 |
IriX64 |
roses need
watering, ill be back in a bit |
| 02:36.15 |
IriX64 |
checked out
how do you want to proceed? |
| 02:36.36 |
brlcad |
default
configure, post the config.log somewhere |
| 02:36.41 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 02:40.31 |
IriX64 |
heh if you
laugh at my triplets i'll never speak to you again ;) |
| 02:42.48 |
brlcad |
is that a
promise or a threat? |
| 02:43.09 |
IriX64 |
a poor
attempt at humour :) |
| 02:47.33 |
*** join/#brlcad emtpyc
(n=Matthew_@c-69-139-106-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 02:55.46 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/config.log |
| 02:57.32 |
IriX64 |
ill leave
that tree strictly alone |
| 04:41.34 |
poolio |
gnite |
| 05:36.01 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 06:22.13 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 07:06.07 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-76-23-44-107.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:59.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:21.03 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-027-111.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:25.04 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875DE3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:20.43 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:33.14 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 11:57.24 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:42.14 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 14:01.09 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: cast to quell
warning |
| 14:02.25 |
poolio |
mornin, see
``Erik's already up |
| 14:04.11 |
``Erik |
well, I kinda
have to get into the office at 8:30 most days... |
| 14:04.42 |
poolio |
hehe.
:) |
| 14:04.55 |
poolio |
I slept in
today but that means I have to work late :\ |
| 14:05.08 |
Laniakea |
``Erik: do
you have an idea how to fix this? clock@kestrel:~$ mged |
| 14:05.08 |
Laniakea |
Initializing
and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 14:05.08 |
Laniakea |
version
conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 14:05.08 |
Laniakea |
MGED
Aborted. |
| 14:08.14 |
``Erik |
um, I'd
imagine itcl builds its version depending on what the os expects
libraries to be named and then tests version in the scripts without
paying attention to that... |
| 14:08.28 |
``Erik |
obsd doesn't
do dotted .so names, does it? |
| 14:09.04 |
``Erik |
I know in the
configure script, I shoved in a bunch of tests for tcl and tk that
go like '8.5 85' in the search |
| 14:09.24 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, I don't have an obsd box
anymore :( |
| 14:10.03 |
``Erik |
(short
answer; itcl is broken in your install) |
| 14:14.12 |
Laniakea |
what's dotted
.so names? |
| 14:14.22 |
Laniakea |
I guess every
library name contains at least one dot |
| 14:14.59 |
Laniakea |
aha the
problem is that 33 is actually 3.3 with the dot
removed? |
| 14:15.48 |
Laniakea |
I have
libtcl84.so.1.0 in /usr/local/lib |
| 14:16.24 |
Laniakea |
then also
/usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl3.3.so.0.0 |
| 14:16.38 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 14:16.46 |
``Erik |
itcl didn't
build it, it'd seem |
| 14:16.51 |
``Erik |
build right,
rather |
| 14:16.56 |
Laniakea |
can I safely
remove /usr/brlcad and run make install again? |
| 14:17.04 |
``Erik |
it should
probably be libitcl33.so.0.0 |
| 14:17.13 |
``Erik |
I don't know
if that would fix it... |
| 14:17.19 |
louipc |
yeah I
thought bsd removes the dot |
| 14:17.21 |
``Erik |
you might try
just moving the offending .so files |
| 14:17.42 |
Laniakea |
but I don't
have a system wide itcl lib |
| 14:17.53 |
``Erik |
fbsd can keep
the dots in the name |
| 14:18.21 |
poolio |
just softlink
the 3.3 to 33? |
| 14:18.46 |
``Erik |
sure |
| 14:19.09 |
``Erik |
um, and the
symlinks, too... libitcl33.so libitcl33.so.0
libitcl33.so.0.0 |
| 14:19.11 |
``Erik |
and see if
that works |
| 14:19.40 |
``Erik |
and the
itk's, if they're also messed up |
| 14:20.06 |
poolio |
it's a bad
hack, the problem should be fixed :) |
| 14:20.21 |
``Erik |
no shit? but
this will tell us if it's really the problem |
| 14:20.39 |
Laniakea |
now I did rm
-rf /usr/brlcad and doing make install |
| 14:20.48 |
Laniakea |
because there
was some old stuff from 7.8.4 and this is 7.10.0 |
| 14:21.12 |
``Erik |
ok, see if
mged works, if not, try the symlink hack and see if that fixes
it... |
| 14:21.18 |
Laniakea |
The README
says how to install but doesn't say how to reinstall a new version,
which people also do often. |
| 14:21.58 |
``Erik |
in theory, it
should just overwrite leftovers |
| 14:22.30 |
``Erik |
around here,
they like to --prefix=/usr/brlcad/7.10.0 and ln -s
/usr/brlcad/7.10.0/* /usr/brlcad/ |
| 14:44.09 |
Laniakea |
``Erik: after
deleting the brlcad directory in the system and rerunning make
install the error message has changed. |
| 14:45.16 |
Laniakea |
``Erik:
http://pastebin.ca/623338 |
| 14:46.56 |
``Erik |
do you have
/usr/brlcad/lib/itcl3.3 or /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33 ? |
| 14:46.58 |
poolio |
find / -name
itcl.tcl ? |
| 14:47.13 |
``Erik |
eck, on root?
why no /usr/brlcad? |
| 14:47.29 |
Laniakea |
I don't have
/usr/brlcad/lib/itcl3.3 and I have
/usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33. |
| 14:48.03 |
``Erik |
how
interesting |
| 14:48.11 |
Laniakea |
now running
find / -name itcl.tcl |
| 14:48.17 |
``Erik |
setenv
ITCL_LIBRARY /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33 |
| 14:48.23 |
``Erik |
setenv
ITK_LIBRARY /usr/brlcad/lib/itk33 |
| 14:48.26 |
``Erik |
then try mged
again? |
| 14:49.27 |
Laniakea |
setenv:
command not found |
| 14:49.43 |
``Erik |
oh,
um |
| 14:49.47 |
``Erik |
are you using
bash? |
| 14:49.56 |
``Erik |
or one of the
bsh family? (ksh, zsh, etc) |
| 14:50.07 |
Laniakea |
yes I am
using bash |
| 14:50.17 |
``Erik |
export
ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/libitcl33 |
| 14:50.19 |
Laniakea |
if I replace
setenv a b with export a=b then mged says good old |
| 14:50.20 |
``Erik |
and the same
for itk |
| 14:50.26 |
Laniakea |
version
conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 14:50.32 |
Laniakea |
I did both
exports. |
| 14:52.59 |
Laniakea |
<PROTECTED> |
| 14:53.04 |
Laniakea |
/usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33/itcl.tcl |
| 14:57.26 |
Laniakea |
I don't
understand what I should try with the symlinks |
| 14:57.40 |
Laniakea |
how did you
mean with the symlinks? |
| 14:59.44 |
``Erik |
lhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/44680 |
| 14:59.47 |
``Erik |
http://paste.lisp.org/display/44680 |
| 15:07.30 |
Laniakea |
it
prints |
| 15:07.33 |
Laniakea |
ln:
/usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl33.so.0.0: File exists |
| 15:07.33 |
Laniakea |
ln:
/usr/brlcad/lib/libitk33.so.0.0: File exists |
| 15:08.12 |
poolio |
that's
fine |
| 15:08.14 |
Laniakea |
and running
mged (without the exports) does again the long error
message |
| 15:08.25 |
Laniakea |
should I try
with the export? |
| 15:08.31 |
poolio |
yes |
| 15:10.43 |
Laniakea |
So now it
prints again clock@kestrel:~$ version conflict for package "Itcl":
have 3.3, need 33 |
| 15:11.17 |
Laniakea |
and MGED
Aborted |
| 15:12.37 |
poolio |
I could keep
guessing but you're better off waiting for someone who knows what
they're doing |
| 15:16.24 |
poolio |
Could it have
something to do with package checks on startup? something to do
with the way the tcl/tk packages are registered on the
system? |
| 15:18.27 |
``Erik |
no |
| 15:19.15 |
``Erik |
clock: can
you do "make -V ITCL_VERSION" in the source directory and tell me
what it says? |
| 15:20.42 |
Laniakea |
It says
"gmake: invalid option -- V" |
| 15:21.10 |
``Erik |
using bsd
make...? :) |
| 15:21.20 |
``Erik |
or grep it
out of Makefile |
| 15:21.37 |
``Erik |
I suspect it
says "3.3" instead of "33" |
| 15:25.34 |
Laniakea |
when I do
unalias gmake then make -V ITCL_VERSION says 33 |
| 15:25.50 |
Laniakea |
(on a
separate single line, without any quotes) |
| 15:27.17 |
``Erik |
huh,
odd |
| 15:29.11 |
``Erik |
ok, if you go
into src/other/incrTcl and do /usr/bin/make -V
lib_LTLIBRARIES |
| 15:29.16 |
``Erik |
what's that
say? |
| 15:32.35 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 15:42.49 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
still partially confused about the offset thing. It works fine, I
didn't manually modify offsets, the internal object remains
unchanged, however the directory pointer has changed, I recreate it
using diradd on the new database |
| 15:50.59 |
Laniakea |
libitcl.la
libitcl33.la libitk.la libitk33.la |
| 15:58.06 |
``Erik |
wwweeeiiirrrdddd |
| 15:58.29 |
``Erik |
I don't
understand why it's installing as libitcl3.3.so O.o libtool muffed
up mebbe? *shrug* |
| 16:01.23 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.185.24) |
| 16:01.25 |
Laniakea |
so what
should I do? |
| 16:01.34 |
Laniakea |
give some
more diagnostic information? |
| 16:02.12 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 16:08.25 |
poolio |
brlcad or
maybe ``Erik can answer this, in db_tree.c, db_count_tree_nodes(),
shouldn't the logic be that the CSG operators: union, intersect,
etc... add one to the node count? Aren't they considered nodes
after all? |
| 16:13.42 |
iraytrace |
The word
"node" is probably a misnomer in this context |
| 16:13.58 |
iraytrace |
It's counting
primitives and regions really |
| 16:14.28 |
Laniakea |
``Erik:
brlcad 7.8.4 compiled and installed fine for me |
| 16:14.52 |
Laniakea |
but it
produced faulty output from rtedge. |
| 16:15.00 |
iraytrace |
I wonder if
the code, the comment or both are incorrect. I'd have to see what
uses it. |
| 16:15.03 |
Laniakea |
because of
race condition between two threads |
| 16:19.24 |
poolio |
iraytrace: I
ask because I need the functionality of counting all nodes,
including non-leaf nodes and am debating whether to modify that and
rewrite a new one that just adds one for the other OPs |
| 16:20.06 |
iraytrace |
Have to check
the code that calls this already and make sure it won't break
before making the change. |
| 16:20.20 |
poolio |
I can do
that |
| 16:20.31 |
iraytrace |
Goferit |
| 16:23.11 |
poolio |
iraytrace: I
think there's an error, or some sort of weird overlap,
db_count_tree_nodes and db_tree_nleaves seem to be the same thing,
however nleaves does not count OP_NOPs, and db_count_tree_nodes
counts OP_XOR as a unary op, isn't it supposed to be
binary? |
| 16:23.52 |
iraytrace |
Sound like it
to mee. |
| 16:24.30 |
poolio |
Actually,
db_count_tree_nodes seems to be no longer in use |
| 16:24.45 |
poolio |
I think I
should modify it to do what it says it should, and I'll change XOR
to binary |
| 16:24.54 |
iraytrace |
sounds like a
plan. |
| 16:25.04 |
iraytrace |
Thanks |
| 16:30.00 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: db_count_tree_nodes() now
counts nodes and leaves |
| 16:31.16 |
poolio |
hmm, that
commit message is not right, but oh well |
| 16:32.00 |
Laniakea |
Who
understands this itcl stuff the most? |
| 16:32.56 |
poolio |
probably
brlcad, but he's a busy man |
| 16:34.14 |
Laniakea |
There must've
been some change around the itcl when it worked in brlcad-7.8.4 and
doesn't work in 7.10.0, is it right? |
| 17:38.18 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.185.24) |
| 18:50.01 |
poolio |
ah crap, I
somehow broke my source directory :\, have to recheckout cvs
now |
| 19:07.45 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 19:13.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-231-214.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:28.57 |
IriX64 |
poolio, you
really can't access my irix32 or irix64 sites? |
| 19:29.27 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 19:31.18 |
poolio |
Yes, there's
some issue with XML, I can paste the error for you if you'd
like |
| 19:31.26 |
poolio |
I think it
only is happening with people using iceweasel |
| 19:32.15 |
IriX64 |
how do i
complain to microsoft errr do I dare complain, at the moment those
are free sites :) |
| 19:32.35 |
poolio |
I have no
clue, sorry |
| 19:32.49 |
IriX64 |
heh for you
i'll use sympatico |
| 19:33.20 |
IriX64 |
should make a
page |
| 19:36.43 |
IriX64 |
should
re-install opera and see if there's an issue, no issue with windows
firefox |
| 19:45.19 |
poolio |
MinuteElectron: shouldn't be too bad,
binary-based distro. |
| 19:46.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, I had to
download the alternate installer. The standard Live CD installer
wouldn't even boot on HELIUM (my other system which is only
400MHz). |
| 19:48.30 |
poolio |
woah |
| 19:48.40 |
poolio |
No wonder,
why do you still have a 400mhz ;) |
| 19:49.02 |
MinuteElectron |
Because I
haven't the money to maintain two good computers. |
| 19:49.39 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: Even
the machine I am using ATM is only 2.2GHz. |
| 19:49.50 |
poolio |
I'm only on a
1.83 |
| 19:50.07 |
poolio |
Purchasing a
1.5 Thinkpad X41 tablet in the near future |
| 19:50.21 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio:
Hopefully I will be able to get an 31337 machine for christmas (I
need a new motherboard so I can use a PCI graphics
card). |
| 19:51.06 |
poolio |
Yeah, with
the work I'm doing this summer I'm able to buy a new computer, but
I'm saving most of it and going cheap. |
| 19:51.16 |
MinuteElectron |
I enjoy retro
technology because I don't have to worry about scrambling a 10 year
old PC when I muck about with the innards. |
| 19:51.41 |
dtidrow |
10os[Linux
2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU
T7600 @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 2823MB/3288MB Free]
10disk[Total : 20.32GB/126.97GB Free] 10video[Quadro FX 2500M]
10sound[] |
| 19:51.45 |
MinuteElectron |
With my 4
year old PC that is a completely different matter. |
| 19:51.56 |
MinuteElectron |
dtidrow: What
program did you use to generate that? |
| 19:52.16 |
dtidrow |
it's a plugin
for xchat |
| 19:52.25 |
MinuteElectron |
:( - xchat is
unfree. |
| 19:52.32 |
dtidrow |
??? |
| 19:52.35 |
MinuteElectron |
at least the
win32 official version is. |
| 19:52.40 |
dtidrow |
ah,
win32 |
| 19:52.55 |
dtidrow |
10os[dtidrow@localhost.localdomain, Linux
2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] |
| 19:53.06 |
dtidrow |
:-) |
| 19:53.22 |
MinuteElectron |
irssi is
cool. |
| 19:53.28 |
IriX64 |
err pseudo
windows |
| 19:54.03 |
dtidrow |
running
windows inside a VM? |
| 19:54.17 |
IriX64 |
cygwin on
windows xppro |
| 19:54.34 |
dtidrow |
ah |
| 19:54.44 |
IriX64 |
works im
happy |
| 19:54.53 |
dtidrow |
cygwin makes
windows 'tolerable' ;-) |
| 19:55.07 |
IriX64 |
loadavg in
other sessions is always 0 though :) |
| 19:55.19 |
IriX64 |
yes it
does |
| 19:55.40 |
poolio |
howdy
yukonbob |
| 19:55.53 |
yukonbob |
a liveCD of
*BSD or Linux would make a Windows box even more
tolerable... |
| 19:56.03 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 19:56.10 |
MinuteElectron |
os[Microsuck
Window XP Professional Service pack 2] cpu[AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @
2.2GHz] mem[Physical: 1024MB] disk[77.3GB + 8GB] video[NVidia
GeForce FX5200] sound[] |
| 19:56.19 |
MinuteElectron |
hey
yukonbob |
| 19:56.23 |
MinuteElectron |
nice to meet
you |
| 19:56.28 |
yukonbob |
likewise |
| 19:56.59 |
dtidrow |
NVidia
GeForce FX5200 - that's like bottom of the barrel :-\ |
| 19:57.12 |
IriX64 |
Minute
electron, you've been robbed, my copy of that chip clocks at
2.4g |
| 19:57.33 |
dtidrow |
IriX64:
overclocked? |
| 19:57.40 |
IriX64 |
no
regular |
| 19:57.51 |
dtidrow |
interesting |
| 19:58.02 |
IriX64 |
motherboard
difference you think? |
| 19:58.10 |
dtidrow |
MinuteElectron: did you perhaps underclock
it for some reason? |
| 19:59.05 |
IriX64 |
ive got a gig
of ddr too but only 250g dive :) |
| 19:59.49 |
dtidrow |
heh - drives
are dirt-cheap these days |
| 19:59.58 |
IriX64 |
specially
ide |
| 20:00.21 |
poolio |
speaking of
which, any suggestions for a external hd that doesnt require it's
own power source? (usb-powered) |
| 20:00.23 |
dtidrow |
saw an
external drive for $125 at buy.com - $100 after rebate |
| 20:00.45 |
dtidrow |
500GB
external, that is |
| 20:00.50 |
poolio |
nice |
| 20:00.53 |
dtidrow |
indeed |
| 20:00.56 |
IriX64 |
poolio
staples has several varieties of external usb drives |
| 20:01.09 |
poolio |
Do people
approve of me buying this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130134532113 |
| 20:01.12 |
poolio |
your
e-pinions matter ;) |
| 20:01.15 |
louipc |
poolio: I get
an xml error with firefox |
| 20:01.36 |
poolio |
louipc: yeah,
iceweasel is just what they call the newer version of
firefox |
| 20:01.46 |
poolio |
i forget the
whole firefox nomenclature |
| 20:02.49 |
IriX64 |
looks
purty |
| 20:03.29 |
yukonbob |
poolio: if
you get the serial#, you can confirm the warranty w/
IBM |
| 20:03.54 |
IriX64 |
thinkpad,
does it really help you think :) |
| 20:04.21 |
louipc |
I thought
that iceweasel is a fork of firefox |
| 20:04.24 |
MinuteElectron |
dtidrow: Did
I underclock what? |
| 20:04.49 |
MinuteElectron |
dtidrow: All
my friends take the piss out of my FX5200. |
| 20:04.58 |
louipc |
because they
won't allow you to do a custom build and still call it
firefox |
| 20:05.03 |
MinuteElectron |
dtidrow: I am
saving up to get a PCI system at Christmas. |
| 20:05.04 |
louipc |
dumb mozilla
license |
| 20:05.34 |
dtidrow |
MinuteElectron: heh |
| 20:05.55 |
louipc |
I have the
same card as you hah |
| 20:06.02 |
dtidrow |
$100 would
get you a 7600 |
| 20:06.05 |
louipc |
I think it's
broken |
| 20:06.12 |
louipc |
I got mine
ages ago though |
| 20:06.27 |
poolio |
yukonbob: I
just sent the question to the seller, good point |
| 20:06.54 |
MinuteElectron |
dtidrow: That
would be a waste since all AGP cards will be out of date in about 5
months and I want to future-proof myself. THis system I am using
now has lasted 4 years. |
| 20:07.19 |
louipc |
what's the
next interface then? |
| 20:07.31 |
dtidrow |
PCIe |
| 20:07.33 |
poolio |
PCI-e |
| 20:07.55 |
louipc |
cool |
| 20:15.43 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I am
going away on holiday for one week on Friday so will be unable to
finish the theme for the website until after I come
back. |
| 20:16.18 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: If I
set up LDAP I will be able to set the site to use the defaults
themes and you will be able to add content to the wiki and drupal
while I am away. |
| 20:17.17 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: If
you want to, that is. |
| 20:21.52 |
dtidrow |
10os[Linux
2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10distro[Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)]
10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz
(GenuineIntel) @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 3.2GB, 84.6% free]
10disk[Total : 126.97GB, 16.00% Free] 10video[nVidia Corporation
G71 [Quadro FX 2500M]] 10sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] |
| 20:22.16 |
dtidrow |
heh - found a
new version that detects the h/w & s/w better |
| 20:22.23 |
MinuteElectron |
hehe |
| 20:41.36 |
IriX64 |
poolio:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Current.png |
| 20:43.02 |
IriX64 |
man, it's a
cygwin build, would it be cricket to add that
somewhere? |
| 20:46.39 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735162.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:54.49 |
IriX64 |
say, brlcad
would it help to have my 7.8.4 config.log to compare against, if it
will ill put it up there. |
| 20:59.31 |
MinuteElectron |
IriX64:
cricket? |
| 21:03.25 |
IriX64 |
would it be
allright :) |
| 21:03.59 |
MinuteElectron |
I think
so. |
| 21:04.10 |
IriX64 |
ty |
| 21:04.16 |
MinuteElectron |
A old version
of windows exists. |
| 21:04.37 |
MinuteElectron |
But don't
trust me, I am simpyl the website developer. |
| 21:04.43 |
MinuteElectron |
I could be
all wrong. |
| 21:04.43 |
IriX64 |
i Know,
7.8.0 |
| 21:05.11 |
MinuteElectron |
A newer
version would be good (I could try it out). :P |
| 21:05.42 |
IriX64 |
maybe ill
send you a cygwin build when im done :) |
| 21:06.15 |
IriX64 |
*Ill provide
the required dll's |
| 21:07.53 |
IriX64 |
and
xserver |
| 21:08.17 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 21:09.42 |
louipc |
how's the
website? |
| 21:10.33 |
louipc |
if you ever
need a hand I can do some of that :D |
| 21:11.37 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 21:12.18 |
MinuteElectron |
I am still
working on the theme, but so it is active while I am gone I am
going to set up LDAP by friday and that way people can add content
while I am on holiday. |
| 21:14.30 |
louipc |
hmm I've
never used that before |
| 21:15.08 |
MinuteElectron |
me neither -
but I will get it to work. I promise. |
| 21:15.15 |
louipc |
:D |
| 21:17.23 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.185.24) |
| 21:25.55 |
*** join/#brlcad cad68
(n=803f201f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:27.07 |
*** join/#brlcad cad11
(n=803f201f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:31.20 |
poolio |
ebay
scammming bullshit bastards grargh
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=130134532113 |
| 21:32.01 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875DE3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:32.46 |
MinuteElectron |
poolio: How
do you know it is a scam? |
| 21:33.48 |
dtidrow_work |
$3,275.00 for
a 1.5GHz Stinkpad? |
| 21:34.02 |
MinuteElectron |
oh
lol |
| 21:35.14 |
dtidrow |
10os[Linux
2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10distro[Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)]
10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz
(GenuineIntel) @ 1000MHz] 10mem[Physical : 3.2GB, 85.1% free]
10disk[Total : 241.38GB, 25.70% Free] 10video[nVidia Corporation
G71 [Quadro FX 2500M]] 10sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] |
| 21:35.36 |
poolio |
oh well, so
it goes. |
| 21:35.47 |
dtidrow |
this sucker
goes for about $4500 on Dell's website, and it's current
h/w |
| 21:36.56 |
dtidrow |
I need to see
if I can get the display resolution to show up as well - this one
has a 1920x1200 flatpanel on it |
| 21:44.06 |
dtidrow |
btw, that
$4500 apparently includes an external monitor that I think is also
1920x1200 |
| 21:45.06 |
MinuteElectron |
Goodnight. |
| 21:45.24 |
dtidrow |
'nite |
| 21:58.20 |
poolio |
brlcad: if I
have the choice between writing code that works fine but is very
specific and writing code that can be more modularized and allow
different implementations, should I choose the latter? |
| 21:59.04 |
brlcad |
depends how
much architecting is required to modularize it, and what sort of
"different implementations", but in general sure |
| 21:59.07 |
poolio |
Like for the
genetic operations I currently am writing different routines for
the different operations, but I could do it by having a generalized
routine and then a function pointer to a routine that will do the
more specific processing |
| 21:59.19 |
brlcad |
wow, busy
day |
| 22:00.00 |
poolio |
Well like,
i'm implementing crossover and mutation, should I set it up so if
people want to implement other operations that I do not, it will be
easier for that to occur? I guess the main question is, is anyone
else going to be heavily modifying this code? |
| 22:00.09 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah,
where have you been all day :) |
| 22:05.26 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: that sounds like a great
plan |
| 22:08.21 |
brlcad |
IriX64: sure,
post both for comparison |
| 22:08.32 |
IriX64 |
all
right |
| 22:13.18 |
IriX64 |
config.log-7.8.4 same site as
config.log |
| 22:14.08 |
brlcad |
poolio:
meetings, discussions, fires, the usual |
| 22:15.16 |
brlcad |
poolio: I
don't think it's heavily likely that someone else is going to be
_heavily_ modifying anytime real soon, it's more a tool that will
work or not work outright |
| 22:15.48 |
brlcad |
it would be
nice to be able to extract out the genetic algorithm into a generic
library, but then that is probably too much overhead work to
complete this summer |
| 22:15.54 |
poolio |
alright, so
the effort put into making an easier interface isn't necessarily
worth the time |
| 22:16.01 |
poolio |
yeah, it is
:) |
| 22:16.23 |
brlcad |
yeah,
configurable would be good, but doesn't need to be necessarily
"easier" code-wise |
| 22:16.51 |
poolio |
Yes, I'm
definitely going to separate any sort of "Genetic algorithm
variables" |
| 22:17.05 |
brlcad |
like being
able to specify the size of the population, mutation rates, max
tree depths, types of allowed operators/primitives, etc |
| 22:17.53 |
poolio |
Yeah
definitely |
| 22:18.34 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: curious comment about ldap
-- you're not talking about using ldap for the content are
you? |
| 22:18.51 |
poolio |
I didn't
think it would take as long as it's taking, my coding is just going
at a slothlike pace for some reason. Every day I make atleast one
lage stupid mistake. I was hoping to have it done by now and be
working on say having a genetic algorithm or neural net work on
finding the best variables for the lower level genetic
algorithm |
| 22:18.53 |
brlcad |
I can easily
see it for the user directory, content is a little more
tricky |
| 22:19.55 |
brlcad |
poolio:
you're actually father than I "expected" but spot on where I hoped
;) |
| 22:20.30 |
poolio |
I think what
I messed up was I dove into the code a bit too soon, didn't quite
spend enough time planning. |
| 22:20.51 |
poolio |
I lacked the
foresight to see a lot of the problems that have come up. But then
again hindsight is 20/20... |
| 22:21.27 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 22:21.43 |
brlcad |
you've made
consistent progress |
| 22:21.53 |
brlcad |
and no
glaring/blatent problems to say the least |
| 22:22.12 |
brlcad |
just needs
more code, more chugging along |
| 22:23.17 |
poolio |
i mean the
first main issue was the tree represenation pain in the butt, and
now the organization of my code is needing a change to work better
with the genetic operations |
| 22:23.46 |
poolio |
I'm a couple
hundred lines away from a working crossover and framework for
mutation, than I'll have to code in the specific cases for
mutation, and then I can test, hopefully |
| 22:24.14 |
poolio |
ah hooray,
kind of, |
| 22:24.15 |
poolio |
eBay Listing
130134532113 Cancelled - Results Null and Void |
| 22:24.35 |
dtidrow |
which
means? |
| 22:25.36 |
poolio |
seller should
repost it, and I'll have a chance to re-bid. |
| 22:26.50 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright I'm off for the night, but tomorrow I will have workign
crossover dammit. |
| 23:40.24 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:55.47 |
brlcad |
poolio: hehe,
good luck! |
| 00:24.50 |
brlcad |
yeah, need to
specify the -w WIDTH -n HEIGTH of the input, and use redirectors
< > for input/output |
| 02:36.48 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-112-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:54.42 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871649.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:56.11 |
IriX64 |
poolio:
archer.png (proving once and for all windows is fun:)) |
| 03:20.11 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-168-112-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:21.18 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871649.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:51.20 |
poolio |
brlcad: a bit
late, but I was wondering if you had any suggestions on the series
of ae's to take the raytraces at? |
| 04:09.30 |
brlcad |
poolio, sure
.. front, left, top and 3525 |
| 04:09.44 |
poolio |
k,
thanks |
| 04:10.00 |
brlcad |
i.e. 0 0 90
0 270 90 and 35 25 |
| 04:10.38 |
poolio |
Yeah I got
that, just fixing up the perl script :) |
| 04:35.38 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@210-84-20-110.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:54.55 |
poolio |
brlcad: if
you have a minute and some bandwidth here's a 1.2M image, showing
the most fit individual from each generation |
| 04:55.05 |
poolio |
http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon.jpg |
| 04:56.27 |
poolio |
Just uses
crossover and reproduction, 50% chance of either, crossover is done
by selecting a random node on each of the two parent trees and
swapping the sub trees at those nodes. |
| 04:56.38 |
poolio |
reproduction
is just duplicating the individual into the newer
populaiton |
| 04:57.54 |
poolio |
Testing
whether the GA is working is becoming painfully slow :\ |
| 05:06.17 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: very curious.. is that svn
cron task a safe thing to do? chances that the svn sources will
update to something unstable or is that a stable branch the sources
come from? |
| 05:08.43 |
brlcad |
poolio:
interesting, and progress :) |
| 05:08.57 |
brlcad |
and a pretty
reasonable test case |
| 05:09.00 |
poolio |
well, not
necessarily progress :\ |
| 05:09.10 |
brlcad |
well it's
actually iterating and doing something |
| 05:09.10 |
poolio |
Let me try
again with the two spheres |
| 05:09.27 |
poolio |
Well it has
been at that stage for teh entire day, I was hoping to have some
sort of visible convergence |
| 05:09.46 |
brlcad |
note that
with the evolutionary criteria you selected.. i really wouldn't
expect it to converge for several hundred iterations at
least |
| 05:10.45 |
brlcad |
is the
fitness value that your fitness function computes
normalized? |
| 05:10.48 |
poolio |
alright,
maybe I'm being too impatient. But the fact that it's jumping
around so much for so long...I thought I would be able to see
noticeable improvement after a not so significant amount of
generations |
| 05:11.23 |
brlcad |
after 100
iterations, you should see some difference, but it won't
necessarily be visible |
| 05:11.26 |
poolio |
brlcad:
Normalized from 0 to 1, represents the %different from the
source |
| 05:11.26 |
brlcad |
you need the
value |
| 05:11.36 |
poolio |
well the
value tends to go down |
| 05:11.41 |
poolio |
it seems the
first generation has the highest fitness |
| 05:11.43 |
brlcad |
yeah, what's
the graph of that mean fitness look like? |
| 05:11.58 |
poolio |
that's next
on the list :) |
| 05:12.17 |
brlcad |
i'd also
suggest starting with an even simpler test case |
| 05:12.27 |
poolio |
I did, I just
tried out something more advanced |
| 05:12.44 |
poolio |
I'll go back
and test a simpler one now |
| 05:12.45 |
brlcad |
I presume
from what you said earlier that one sphere is pretty much going to
match just from how sample candidates are tested |
| 05:12.56 |
brlcad |
with thier
boxes set to "match" |
| 05:12.59 |
poolio |
Yes, one
sphere is trivial in the sense every single individual will be the
same |
| 05:13.15 |
brlcad |
okay, so then
next step is two spheres, not overlapping |
| 05:13.33 |
brlcad |
then two
spheres overlapping |
| 05:13.53 |
brlcad |
but only
after you find a convergence on the first |
| 05:13.59 |
poolio |
yeah, I tried
two spheres not overlapping, no good results, I'm going to try to
run it longer though |
| 05:14.05 |
brlcad |
you should
definitely be able to get a semi-quick convergence on the
first |
| 05:15.07 |
brlcad |
i mean,
that's only a four-value function if you think of one of the
spheres as fixed, and still only 8 valued if you don't |
| 05:15.46 |
brlcad |
it's only
when it gets into the hundreds that I'd question it's ability to
ever converge |
| 05:16.34 |
brlcad |
can you make
more than a sphere or is that the only primitive
supported? |
| 05:17.01 |
brlcad |
that's
another hard problem -- with even just one primitive, but N
possible creation primitives |
| 05:18.54 |
poolio |
so far i'm
keeping it just a sphere |
| 05:19.02 |
brlcad |
another thing
I think might actually be messing you up is matching the bounding
grid to make it scaling independent -- it takes care of scaling
(which is just one parameter of course), but screws with
translations and position values (6 parameters) .. such that
crossover is effectively randomized between different
scalings |
| 05:19.05 |
poolio |
I can spawn a
population with anything |
| 05:19.14 |
brlcad |
okay, just
wondering - that's good |
| 05:19.29 |
poolio |
It'd take a
few minutes to spawn other things, but the crossover and
reproduction are independent of the shape and it's specific
properites |
| 05:19.51 |
brlcad |
nah, don't
worry about other shapes, spheres are good |
| 05:20.05 |
poolio |
yeah crap,
translations and positions would throw it all off |
| 05:20.27 |
poolio |
well,
translations and positions would be covered by
orientation |
| 05:20.33 |
poolio |
which is
inherently part of the primitive shapes |
| 05:21.24 |
brlcad |
the magnitude
of their values doesn't mean the same thing after a crossover any
more though |
| 05:22.23 |
poolio |
true |
| 05:22.47 |
brlcad |
which just
makes it that much harder for the GA (and really hurts
crossover) |
| 05:23.37 |
poolio |
hmm |
| 05:23.42 |
poolio |
but I don't
think there's really anything I can do about that |
| 05:23.44 |
brlcad |
one of the
crossover criteria is supposed to be taking your top n% of the
population only, for example, like only your best 50% with a given
fitness get to cross .. |
| 05:23.52 |
poolio |
well |
| 05:23.57 |
poolio |
I have a
weighted random selection |
| 05:24.07 |
poolio |
so the most
fit are more likely to be selected, but not guaranteed |
| 05:24.11 |
brlcad |
but with
normalized scaling, that means the fitness is scale dependent which
crossover knows nothing about |
| 05:24.16 |
poolio |
tournament
selection might be what it's called |
| 05:25.29 |
poolio |
I don't see
any way around the crossover issue though, unless you wanted
crossover to modify the shapes themselves to normalize them to the
current shapes in the other tree, but I don't think that makes much
sense |
| 05:25.29 |
brlcad |
with usual
fitness values, crossover tends to work well because crossing
something with fitness .7 and .8 tend to give something that is .7
or better on average |
| 05:25.42 |
brlcad |
with the
scaled values, though, you could pretty much get anything
though |
| 05:26.50 |
poolio |
ah
crap |
| 05:26.56 |
poolio |
I never
thought of that... |
| 05:27.04 |
brlcad |
what you can
do is take the bounding box of your input geometry, make that your
grid -- and only create geometry within those bounds |
| 05:27.29 |
brlcad |
so position
becomes a parameter, but it makes the fitness work |
| 05:27.29 |
poolio |
http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres.jpg |
| 05:27.55 |
poolio |
wait |
| 05:28.12 |
poolio |
so setting up
the raytracing of the indviduals would use the a fixed
frustrum? |
| 05:28.16 |
poolio |
for every
individual |
| 05:28.51 |
brlcad |
yeah, those
results seem fairly random.. cept for the times it gets stuck on a
mildly bad answer |
| 05:29.09 |
brlcad |
yeah, fixed
bounds |
| 05:29.13 |
brlcad |
based on your
input |
| 05:29.23 |
brlcad |
absolute
world coordinate space |
| 05:29.56 |
brlcad |
if input
model is 100,100:-100,-100 then that is what you shoot in and
create sample geometry in |
| 05:30.26 |
brlcad |
you'll have
to rework a few pieces of your code undoubtedly |
| 05:30.30 |
brlcad |
but I think
you really will have to |
| 05:30.45 |
brlcad |
and sorry, I
should have thought about that scaling issue earlier better myself
:/ |
| 05:31.38 |
poolio |
no man, it's
my project and my failure to think of this sooner |
| 05:33.10 |
brlcad |
you have a
mentor for a reason :) |
| 05:33.23 |
poolio |
I think
having crossover meaningful and working is a lot more important
than the scale and global position invariance |
| 05:33.30 |
brlcad |
either way,
it's still looking good, just the fact that you have crossover
working on trees! |
| 05:34.15 |
poolio |
it was so
easy to code, it was such a trivial thing that took so
long |
| 05:34.18 |
brlcad |
and all being
done through the librt geometry api, native hooks, calling into the
ray tracer, awesomeness |
| 05:34.22 |
poolio |
crossover on
trees is as easy as swapping pointers |
| 05:34.36 |
poolio |
well I'm
happy if you're happy :) |
| 05:37.10 |
brlcad |
i'll of
course be happier as it gets better too ;) |
| 05:37.52 |
poolio |
yeah yeah.
next couple of days should be good. now that I can see some
progress I'll probably make more |
| 06:11.42 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
will adjust the cron thing. |
| 06:12.02 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: it's not a problem per se,
just wondering |
| 06:12.46 |
brlcad |
kinda cool
that it'd stay up to date, but if they're like most web apps,
they'll eventually break compatibility and require upgrade scripts
to run on the db, or other actions to be taken, etc |
| 06:13.17 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: An
upgrade script was already running. |
| 06:14.27 |
MinuteElectron |
I will remove
the cron thing an from time to time update it to the revision
currently running on Wikipedia. All of the commits havbe been
reviewed by the CTO of Wikimedia\Head developer of MediaWiki before
they go onto Wikipedia., |
| 06:15.36 |
brlcad |
sure, review
is great .. but eventually compatibility is (intentionally) broken
so code can advance -- is this a stable branch or head? |
| 06:16.06 |
MinuteElectron |
head, what do
you mean by compatability? |
| 06:16.49 |
brlcad |
i mean they
add some great new feature X or change how feature Y works, and
that might, for example, require a new field be added to the
database |
| 06:17.22 |
brlcad |
maybe
requires whole new tables, or even simply reworks how they behave
in a manner that's not the same as it was |
| 06:17.35 |
brlcad |
that happens
to all code eventually |
| 06:17.35 |
MinuteElectron |
Ok, I will
switch to a stable branch, although I have had much experience with
MediaWiki - and the upgrade script automatically does all of the
SQL updates. |
| 06:18.05 |
brlcad |
ah, so that's
what you meant by an upgrade script was already running |
| 06:18.11 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 06:18.11 |
brlcad |
I just
noticed the svn update |
| 06:18.29 |
MinuteElectron |
That is how
they do it on Wikipedia - if they broke things then the entire of
Wikipedia would break. |
| 06:18.37 |
MinuteElectron |
So svn up,
php update.php |
| 06:19.21 |
brlcad |
which might
imply that they are either working on a deployment branch, or they
treat head like a stable branch |
| 06:19.29 |
brlcad |
and perform
active work on a branch then |
| 06:20.03 |
brlcad |
if it'll work
that's fine, just good to understand what is what :) |
| 06:20.41 |
MinuteElectron |
Ahh, okay. I
will update it peridoically to the latest revision live on
Wikipedia. |
| 06:23.05 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: How
is LDAP setup going? |
| 06:26.42 |
brlcad |
it's
installed and running, but no config exists for it yet |
| 06:27.10 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, I will
have to read up on that this afternoon. |
| 06:27.18 |
MinuteElectron |
if I am
getting the right end of the stick |
| 06:27.29 |
brlcad |
yeah, i'm
trailblazing new territory myself as I've mostly dealt with
existing configs |
| 06:28.15 |
brlcad |
I'll work on
it some more tomorrow and see what I can get going |
| 06:28.33 |
brlcad |
was there
anything you needed for the rewrites or you have that all under
control now? :) |
| 06:28.42 |
MinuteElectron |
It is still
broekn. |
| 06:28.59 |
MinuteElectron |
I added the
aliases to httpd.conf and reset apache. |
| 06:29.04 |
MinuteElectron |
But it still
doesn't work. |
| 06:30.23 |
MinuteElectron |
I am very
confused. |
| 06:34.48 |
brlcad |
I can play
with it, I remember the internal redirect rules in media causing
all sorts of issues |
| 06:35.16 |
MinuteElectron |
they
are? |
| 06:35.19 |
brlcad |
took a while
to get it to work with their latest (set up last
winter) |
| 06:36.00 |
MinuteElectron |
I removed the
settings from MediaWiki so if the aliases work it MediaWiki will
just redirect to /w/index.php/page |
| 06:37.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm, I will
work on all this later. School for me now. |
| 06:38.27 |
brlcad |
you know,
something like the drupal header, but inverted (both vertically and
color) would work pretty well for the footer |
| 06:38.41 |
brlcad |
er, I mean
the default theme |
| 07:15.58 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:36.28 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-004-085.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:52.06 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.154) |
| 08:59.12 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-014-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:35.24 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.154) |
| 10:53.16 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487645A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:56.07 |
poolio |
mornin' |
| 11:10.55 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487645A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:21.51 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 13:18.56 |
``Erik |
*stretch*
*yawn* |
| 13:22.39 |
Laniakea |
Can someone
help me with the mged that has the itcl problem? |
| 13:32.37 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@210-84-20-110.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:33.24 |
``Erik |
the . issue
from yesterday? |
| 13:36.23 |
``Erik |
I assume
you're using 4.1? |
| 13:37.33 |
Laniakea |
4.09 |
| 13:37.34 |
Laniakea |
4.0 |
| 13:37.37 |
Laniakea |
not
4.09 |
| 13:40.15 |
``Erik |
hum, tell ya
what, once I get this thing slapped together, I'll see if I can
reproduce it on 4.1. If I cannot, I'll make a 4.0 image
:) |
| 13:40.31 |
``Erik |
will take a
while, though, building the emulator, then installing into an
emulator... |
| 14:25.17 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:33.23 |
``Erik |
neat, bus
error on install |
| 14:34.54 |
dtidrow |
binary
install? |
| 14:36.42 |
Laniakea |
``Erik: you
need to fix your bus |
| 14:36.48 |
``Erik |
install of
obsd41 in qemu, to track a bug Laniakea is seeing |
| 14:36.52 |
Laniakea |
pull out an
oscilloscope and measure the eye patterns! |
| 14:37.36 |
poolio |
brlcad:
should I normalize the shot rays [0,1] now or just leave the depth
of the ray as is? I don't have to normalize because they're all
going to have the same depth (z of the bounding box is the same for
all individuals) |
| 14:38.15 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: I am
thinking (not very seriously) about making an opening logo
animation for Twibright Labs movies |
| 14:38.36 |
Laniakea |
taking a wave
equation solver, put Twibright Labs logo into the wave, run the
simulation and then record it backwards. |
| 14:39.01 |
Laniakea |
Is it a good
idea to use the resulting height map and feed it into brl-cad with
some water parameters and sun at the horizon to get a realistic
looking raytraced scene? |
| 14:39.11 |
Laniakea |
Can you have
a real height field in brl-cad? |
| 14:43.03 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:44.24 |
``Erik |
um, the 'dsp'
primitive might be what you're looking for |
| 14:44.30 |
``Erik |
(yes, the
name is stupid.) |
| 14:48.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487645A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:49.13 |
poolio |
brlcad:
http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres_fixed.jpg
-- with fixed bounding box |
| 15:17.09 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:23.27 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 15:23.27 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
|| 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow
posting of binary distributions |
| 15:26.08 |
brlcad |
poolio: you
can either normalize the rays or not, shouldn't really matter
except that your fitness function will probably want to normalize
at least from the perspective of getting the ratio of right/wrong
so it can determine the overall fitness value |
| 15:27.36 |
brlcad |
I actually
think that looks a little better, but it either converged on a
local minima or there's some other bug at play |
| 15:32.36 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Is
the LDAP ready for configuration? |
| 15:34.32 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:36.58 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: in what sense?
:) |
| 15:37.09 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
Making it work. |
| 15:37.15 |
brlcad |
it's
installed and ready like I said yesterday .. but has no
configuration file :) |
| 15:37.23 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Am I
able to make one? |
| 15:37.30 |
MinuteElectron |
Or do you
need to? |
| 15:37.30 |
brlcad |
you should be
able to, yeah |
| 15:37.37 |
MinuteElectron |
cool |
| 15:42.33 |
brlcad |
there's an
ldap user just like the www user that you should be able to sudo
as |
| 15:43.09 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 15:43.12 |
brlcad |
config would
go in /var/db/openldap-data |
| 15:43.13 |
brlcad |
iirc |
| 15:43.29 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 15:43.57 |
brlcad |
the restart
script is in /usr/local/etc/rc.d for slapd (which you can run as
just sudo without -u ldap) |
| 15:46.28 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Would
the LDAP server be located at localhost? |
| 15:46.37 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 15:46.56 |
brlcad |
and should
only be accessible locally, no remote access |
| 15:47.00 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Which
port? |
| 15:47.30 |
brlcad |
should be on
the default, 389 |
| 15:47.39 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 15:47.48 |
brlcad |
yep, it
is |
| 15:51.12 |
brlcad |
it really
does need a configuration file, though .. default is going to be
wrong |
| 15:52.21 |
poolio |
brlcad:
there's something f-ed with my debian install, I put it under heavy
load trying to test out more generations/larger populations and I
hard lock :\ |
| 15:53.39 |
``Erik |
nifty |
| 15:59.14 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 16:00.58 |
``Erik |
sure it's not
a hw issue? |
| 16:05.00 |
poolio |
not entirely
sure |
| 16:05.05 |
poolio |
but if it is
I'm going to be very angry |
| 16:08.35 |
poolio |
alright |
| 16:08.37 |
poolio |
lets try this
again |
| 16:09.33 |
poolio |
Hmm, my lap
is burning. |
| 16:10.02 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: sudo:
/usr/local/etc/rc.d: command not found |
| 16:11.06 |
poolio |
brlcad: oh
d'oh, that's the issue |
| 16:11.13 |
poolio |
I only have
512 mb of swap and 1gb of ram, and it's all full |
| 16:11.23 |
poolio |
I'm guessing
I should fix my memory leaks |
| 16:11.54 |
``Erik |
um, shouldn't
be a hard lock, linux should start throwing OOM messages and
killing processes left and right |
| 16:12.34 |
``Erik |
(now, it may
LOOK like a hard lock as it tries to clean up swap space tables in
kernel... but evnetually it should come back) |
| 16:12.37 |
poolio |
well, it's
not actually a hard lock, it's a: it's so slow I can't move the
mouse or type or do anything |
| 16:12.55 |
poolio |
and I give up
trying to attempt to kill it and just power down |
| 16:13.06 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:13.15 |
``Erik |
X can be a
memory pig :) |
| 16:13.33 |
poolio |
Well, not
really, X isn't the issue |
| 16:14.04 |
``Erik |
your leaks
are, but with your app and X fighting over memory and beating up
swap, it bet it got ugly... console would've probably been a lot
more responsive :) |
| 16:14.24 |
poolio |
Well, my X
and everything else running is minimal |
| 16:14.35 |
poolio |
Idling right
now I"m using a total of 84M |
| 16:14.55 |
``Erik |
X tends to be
aggressive about image caching |
| 16:15.47 |
``Erik |
freshly
started, it's tiny, but it grows, and gets thrashy if you get
towards oom and it tries to clear out some cache |
| 16:16.03 |
poolio |
hmm, valgrind
is being of no help |
| 16:16.06 |
poolio |
I might have
to use my brain |
| 16:16.28 |
``Erik |
<-- likes
to sit at an X server and do dev work and big runs on other
machines |
| 16:16.48 |
``Erik |
um,
boehm? |
| 16:17.20 |
poolio |
what's
boehm? |
| 16:17.23 |
``Erik |
boehm-gc |
| 16:17.47 |
``Erik |
hans boehm
wrote a GC that works with c/c++ programs, it can be used to find
dangling allocs and stuff |
| 16:18.15 |
``Erik |
I d'no if
valgrind can do the same thing as well |
| 16:18.46 |
``Erik |
if neither
show it, that means the chain is still live |
| 16:23.55 |
poolio |
``Erik: It
looks like it's a library, not a program |
| 16:24.16 |
``Erik |
it
is |
| 16:24.39 |
``Erik |
LD_PRELOAD=libgc.so ./myprog |
| 16:24.44 |
``Erik |
or link
against it |
| 16:24.49 |
poolio |
oh
alright |
| 16:24.51 |
``Erik |
it over-rides
the alloc family |
| 16:25.33 |
``Erik |
I think you
have to do something funky to get it to report collects and
stuff |
| 16:25.37 |
``Erik |
been a
while |
| 16:25.40 |
``Erik |
and a long
time, too |
| 16:33.29 |
poolio |
yeah I don't
get any output |
| 16:35.03 |
``Erik |
is the app
growing at the same rate? |
| 16:37.20 |
poolio |
haven't
tested yet, I've been doing some other tweaking |
| 16:38.54 |
poolio |
alright |
| 16:38.59 |
poolio |
lets see if
it works better :) |
| 16:39.40 |
poolio |
``Erik: Yeah,
just as bad |
| 16:39.53 |
poolio |
After ~30
seconds I'm up to 80% |
| 16:40.12 |
poolio |
and we are
full :\ |
| 16:44.21 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:44.32 |
poolio |
``Erik:
:\ |
| 16:46.31 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726825.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:46.49 |
poolio |
well, it
looks like it wasn't going good anyway |
| 16:48.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: same
issue: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres_pop500.jpg
-- converges on a sphere |
| 16:51.18 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I am
not going to be able to get LDAP set up by tonight. |
| 16:51.25 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: There
is not enough time. |
| 17:02.46 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
have to go, I will be back on Saturday next week. And will finish
work on the site over that week (I think). If you want you may edit
the wiki and Drupal, since they both function you could put
something in the topic saying they are open to editing maybe. If
you make an account on either I will check back in ~2 hours and
make you an admin on both. |
| 17:05.25 |
brlcad |
~MinuteElectron++ |
| 17:38.28 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dyndsl-091-096-050-010.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 17:39.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there some sort of safe atoi() anywhere in brlcad? reading an
unsigned int passed as an argument |
| 17:45.36 |
``Erik |
atoi() isn't
safe? |
| 17:46.08 |
``Erik |
src/librt and
src/rt make heavy use of regular old atoi() |
| 17:49.07 |
poolio |
oh alright
:) |
| 17:49.12 |
poolio |
well I just
have to error check it |
| 18:05.01 |
IriX64 |
there's a
young atoi()? o of course ateentoi() ;) |
| 18:05.21 |
poolio |
yuck
yuck |
| 18:05.31 |
IriX64 |
snarkle
:) |
| 18:08.11 |
IriX64 |
somebody
wanted to know what i was the other day, I responded "cute and
adorable" what are you? (snort) |
| 18:11.05 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 18:20.35 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: cosmetics, comments,
and working options |
| 18:20.53 |
poolio |
and the
memory leak isn't there |
| 19:12.24 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@210-84-20-110.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:28.29 |
*** join/#brlcad thing2
(n=ric@210-84-20-110.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:48.37 |
poolio |
where's the
fookin leak. :\ |
| 19:53.13 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:27.29 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 21:30.14 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:49.18 |
brlcad |
poolio: did
you run valgrind? |
| 21:57.26 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=imac@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:57.34 |
poolio |
errr |
| 21:57.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: big
problem |
| 21:59.18 |
poolio |
brlcad: My
mom tripped over my AC adapter and kicked the brick into the wall,
and now the charging brick isn't working. I didn't notice at the
time and so I drained my battery to nothing, and then it died. It's
an Asus so it's not carried in stores but I'm trying to get one
ASAP |
| 22:01.07 |
brlcad |
poolio: ah,
that sucks |
| 22:01.13 |
brlcad |
thanks mom
:) |
| 22:01.42 |
poolio |
....tell me
about t |
| 22:01.44 |
poolio |
*it |
| 22:02.08 |
brlcad |
radio shack
has the components to make a custom fitted adapter, I've used them
for a few laptops |
| 22:02.19 |
brlcad |
just in case
you're looking |
| 22:07.08 |
poolio |
"custom
fitted" ? a in hacked together? :P |
| 22:07.26 |
brlcad |
no, they have
sort of a universal power adapter kit |
| 22:07.38 |
brlcad |
you identify
the tip, and the power requirements |
| 22:07.47 |
poolio |
Oh, like the
Targus universal adapter thing? |
| 22:07.48 |
brlcad |
they have a
standard brick for various amperages |
| 22:08.04 |
brlcad |
kinda, except
that they have bigger/smaller bricks |
| 22:08.16 |
brlcad |
and you
usually just buy the tip you need |
| 22:08.17 |
poolio |
alright, and
they have all the tips? |
| 22:08.27 |
poolio |
the main
issue is it's an Asus and it's not really carried ...
anywhere |
| 22:08.31 |
brlcad |
only way to
know is to take in your adapter to see |
| 22:08.39 |
brlcad |
usually about
20-40 if they have the tip |
| 22:08.46 |
brlcad |
or maybe
remembering low |
| 22:08.52 |
brlcad |
maybe
40-80 |
| 22:08.58 |
poolio |
yeah, I live
really near one, Ill try to run up and get one tonight, if not I
talked with the reseller I bought the laptop from and they can ship
it tomorrow and get it to me Monday |
| 22:09.27 |
brlcad |
what's your
brick say for power? |
| 22:09.43 |
poolio |
output is
19v |
| 22:09.50 |
brlcad |
ah yeah, they
should have that |
| 22:10.19 |
brlcad |
might not
even need the universal for that if you get lucky |
| 22:10.29 |
brlcad |
as they have
various sizes prefit |
| 22:10.34 |
poolio |
well what i'm
concerned about is the tip |
| 22:10.48 |
poolio |
the radio
shacks here are really small, you sure they carry this
stuff? |
| 22:10.49 |
brlcad |
yeah, just
take in the laptop and adapter, test it |
| 22:11.16 |
brlcad |
i've yet to
see one that didn't, but dunno for your area ;) |
| 22:11.47 |
brlcad |
it's usually
in the back with the eletronic components .. where you *used* to be
able to find cool stuff like resistors and capacitors
:) |
| 22:11.56 |
poolio |
hehe |
| 22:12.04 |
poolio |
alright I'm
going to head up there now, wish me luck :) |
| 22:12.09 |
brlcad |
good luck
:) |
| 22:13.12 |
poolio |
it's covered
under warranty but by the time it ships to taiwan and I get it back
it'll be way too late |
| 22:13.19 |
poolio |
alright, off
I go |
| 22:14.27 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128564966.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:14.51 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/TUuTO168.html
<---- remeber fbserv, this one is bwish. |
| 22:15.38 |
IriX64 |
something
weird, stuff is in there 3 times for the link |
| 22:16.08 |
brlcad |
there's
nothing wrong with listing link items multiple times |
| 22:16.16 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 22:16.57 |
brlcad |
the problem
is still the same, there is some X library missing from the link
line |
| 22:17.07 |
IriX64 |
this off cvs
as of yesterday btw |
| 22:17.12 |
brlcad |
you have
-lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi |
| 22:17.18 |
brlcad |
there is
another Xsomething missing |
| 22:17.32 |
IriX64 |
well you
fixed fbserv please fix this one :) |
| 22:17.48 |
brlcad |
it's not
something to "fix", it's based on configure options |
| 22:17.52 |
brlcad |
and configure
tests |
| 22:18.05 |
IriX64 |
where should
i look |
| 22:18.42 |
brlcad |
it's using a
standard set of X11 library tests, we didn't even write them, so
probably something is wrong in those tests for cygwin |
| 22:18.49 |
brlcad |
and the
library has to be manually tested |
| 22:19.08 |
IriX64 |
do you know
which lib? |
| 22:19.26 |
brlcad |
search the
web, sett which library has XParseColor, XVisualIDFromVisual,
XClipBox, etc .. all those undefined reference symbols are in some
library -- need to find out which one |
| 22:19.46 |
IriX64 |
thanks, ill
search |
| 22:19.47 |
brlcad |
s/sett/search
for/ |
| 22:20.59 |
IriX64 |
i'll use
ignore for now, don't reallly need bwish to play around |
| 22:21.59 |
brlcad |
it would help
if you searched/found the issue, otherwise you're just going to
bring it up again in a couple days and it will still be unresolved
:P |
| 22:22.23 |
IriX64 |
lets hope
there are none past that point ;) |
| 22:25.52 |
IriX64 |
why am i
building this for an opteron, I had hopes of sharing it
:) |
| 22:33.44 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/bzott990.html
<--- hate to keep bothering you but this one's mged, and i *need
mged, guess i really better start searching. |
| 22:37.15 |
IriX64 |
i'll keep it
churning but if it's specific to my system, there really no point
bothering you with it |
| 00:00.26 |
IriX64 |
do i dare try
to make it, make is associated so it should go |
| 00:01.31 |
IriX64 |
rotflmao |
| 00:01.41 |
IriX64 |
its doing it
again |
| 00:02.24 |
IriX64 |
gotta go out
for a bit later thanks for educating me |
| 00:03.51 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 00:20.37 |
IriX64 |
guy i went to
see had the gall to ask me if I was of the true religion, I
answered of course, beleiving is the true relgion, catholicism,
judaism, etc are merely *ways of beleiving, sheeesh |
| 00:22.35 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 00:24.15 |
IriX64 |
scuse me
venting on you sigh |
| 00:29.28 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
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| 00:31.39 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/8vMizB71.html
<--- guys this ones yours |
| 00:44.33 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.172.93) |
| 00:53.56 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/wW7wwR25.html
<-- okay, this ones not completley proper, because I used the
-i(gnore) switch on make to force it to keep going around that
error i just pasted a while ago, but ntvdm built it |
| 01:52.03 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
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| 02:02.25 |
poolio |
evenin |
| 02:21.49 |
poolio |
brlcad: I had
a question about some memory clean up and stuff. I found that the
rtips needed to be cleaned with rt_clean_rti(), should I also be
clearing the resource pointers? and what about rt_uniresource?
should I run rt_clean_resource on those? |
| 03:29.44 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
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| 03:29.47 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
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| 04:14.58 |
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| 04:28.30 |
brlcad |
poolio: yes,
the resource structures should always belong to the application and
it's the app's job to free them (if you see api that contradicts
this, let me know or try fixing it -- there shouldn't
be) |
| 04:31.07 |
brlcad |
rt_clean_resource will do "most" of the
job of free'ing data except for one case that I don't believe
you're using (but you should be able to ignore that case
regardless) |
| 04:31.25 |
brlcad |
rt_uniresource is special, you don't free
it (you didn't allocate it) |
| 04:31.41 |
brlcad |
you can clean
it, but iirc, it doesn't really matter much |
| 04:32.44 |
poolio |
brlcad: but
if I have it setup for multiple CPUS, I should make sure to free
all the resource pointers? |
| 04:33.33 |
poolio |
also: it
appears g_qa doesn't clean anything. I'm not quite sure where I got
rt_clean() usage from. g_transfer uses rt_clean but proceeds to
rt_clean_rti() later |
| 04:34.01 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 04:34.29 |
brlcad |
rt_clean just
prepares for the next frame and/or render session |
| 04:34.45 |
brlcad |
g_transfer is
a demo application where it shoots rays over and over until it's
shut down |
| 04:34.56 |
brlcad |
so between
each session, it needs to clean |
| 04:35.09 |
brlcad |
but then on
shutdown, it needs to clear out the rti |
| 04:36.52 |
poolio |
wait, so if I
have a rtip that i'm going to re-extrace from a db_i, do I need to
run rt_clean_rti or just rt_clean? |
| 04:37.04 |
poolio |
note,
rt_gettree() is going to be recalled |
| 04:38.57 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 04:41.01 |
brlcad |
that's a good
question, I'm not positive without re-reading the guts, but I think
you will need to rt_clean_rti() as the directory structure needs to
be cleared out (which is in the rti) |
| 04:41.03 |
poolio |
I can
experiment but it's hard to tell |
| 04:41.21 |
poolio |
alright yeah,
because rt_new_rti clones the db_i |
| 04:41.22 |
brlcad |
rt_clean_rti() runs rt_clean() too
fwiw |
| 04:41.28 |
poolio |
yeah that's
correct |
| 06:08.00 |
poolio |
brlcad: you
around at this hour? |
| 06:08.41 |
poolio |
zit |
| 06:09.21 |
poolio |
wow my brain
is fried |
| 06:09.36 |
poolio |
i was trying
to type exit in another window, and managed to type ex adn then
must have tapped into this and typed zit |
| 06:09.39 |
poolio |
I guess I'll
go to sleep now |
| 06:09.41 |
poolio |
gnite
:) |
| 07:41.07 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 08:06.01 |
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| 09:00.13 |
Laniakea |
``Erik: have
you managed to install the openbsd into your emulator? |
| 10:26.53 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
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| 10:31.56 |
*** join/#brlcad ken
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| 10:34.49 |
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| 10:37.24 |
ken |
this is
kenwolcott from the mailing list, looking for someone who knows
anything about the deal with the website. feel free to ping me or
whatever if you have any info |
| 11:22.42 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
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| 12:58.20 |
``Erik |
hrm, what?
huh? what website? |
| 13:12.03 |
ken |
ohey
there |
| 13:12.23 |
ken |
I responded
to a thing on sourceforge about a webdesigner wanted |
| 13:12.36 |
ken |
I got this
email that said "drop by irc" |
| 13:13.51 |
ken |
Im just here
asking about what's expected, in terms of design/function and all
that |
| 13:51.56 |
*** part/#brlcad zapp
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| 13:55.50 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
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| 14:44.12 |
``Erik |
ah, brlcad is
the guy to talk to, when he wakes up O.o |
| 14:44.43 |
``Erik |
I presume
you've perused what exists at the moment? |
| 14:45.25 |
ken |
the b+w
site? |
| 14:45.29 |
``Erik |
and are
comfortable with the notion of making a grotesqly conformant page
(i.e. renders on just about any browser, with just about any font
size, screen size, etc) |
| 14:45.40 |
ken |
yea, that
wont be a problem |
| 14:45.47 |
``Erik |
http://www.brlcad.org/ |
| 14:46.29 |
``Erik |
okie, brlcad
is the guy to talk to :) I have to go make a shopping list and head
now O.o hasta |
| 14:46.45 |
ken |
kk |
| 14:47.04 |
ken |
do
svedanya |
| 14:53.44 |
brlcad |
howdy
ken |
| 14:53.59 |
ken |
how are
ya? |
| 14:54.18 |
brlcad |
pretty good,
still shaking off some sleep |
| 14:54.35 |
ken |
thats good to
hear |
| 14:55.00 |
ken |
you mentioned
mediawiki in the email |
| 14:55.06 |
ken |
I like that
idea |
| 14:55.58 |
ken |
I was
wondering about layout/color/etc |
| 14:56.08 |
brlcad |
yes, I
actually mentioned a lot of things, iirc too :) |
| 14:56.35 |
brlcad |
there are
four primary sections to the site that need to be worked on, with
various levels of independence for those sections |
| 14:57.27 |
ken |
right |
| 14:57.49 |
ken |
but its all
going to look pretty much the same, right? |
| 14:57.50 |
brlcad |
as I
mentioneed, there's already a guy that's been working on the front
portal section of the site, he's unfortunately not here this
weekend though he'll be back on Mon |
| 14:58.04 |
brlcad |
they can look
the same or not |
| 14:58.11 |
brlcad |
so long as
their consistent within their section |
| 14:58.16 |
ken |
I mean,
visually consistant and all? or are they four different
sites? |
| 14:58.18 |
ken |
riht |
| 14:58.25 |
brlcad |
so there's a
lot of flexibility in terms of how each one looks
independently |
| 14:59.05 |
brlcad |
they're
really four different sections to the same site, they all relate to
and are connected to BRL-CAD |
| 15:00.02 |
brlcad |
though they
could be on separate domain names for identity or something, maybe
separate virtual names, or even separate domains -- but all
interconnected in terms of navigation and data being
presented |
| 15:00.54 |
brlcad |
for example
it would be really useful on the main page to have a summary of the
benchmark statistics, a graph of recent results or entry
statistics |
| 15:01.32 |
ken |
right |
| 15:02.03 |
brlcad |
and selecing
that data would then of course take you to the section that talks
about what the performance numbers mean, just what is the "BRL-CAD
Benchmark", how to add their own results, download a benchmark-only
binary kit, etc |
| 15:02.39 |
brlcad |
that
benchmark performance section could be in the same drupal/mediawiki
install or could be entirely custom |
| 15:04.01 |
brlcad |
i say that
mainly because it's going to be pretty tricky to do all of the
backend connections, like for that performance section, without a
bit of customization (both on the backend and the front end), so I
did not want to artificially constrain any of those four sections
amongst each other |
| 15:05.16 |
brlcad |
so if you're
interested in working on one of the sections, I can point out some
of the stuff that's already being worked and what's not |
| 15:06.34 |
ken |
well, most of
what Ive done is front-end code, with a bit of (very) light
php/perl to make it useful, but if I need new skills, it wouldnt
hurt the resume to pick em up |
| 15:08.01 |
brlcad |
I think the
less customization we can get away with the better, because that
makes for less of a maintenance burden |
| 15:09.14 |
brlcad |
e.g. I think
you could probably do the entire performance database and materials
database in just about any CMS with a fair bit of setup, and
entirely through the frontend if one wanted |
| 15:10.12 |
ken |
actually, I'd
imagine the materials db wouldnt be too much setup in
mediawiki |
| 15:11.03 |
brlcad |
hmm, that's
entirely possible .. hadn't thought that one through so
much |
| 15:12.06 |
brlcad |
the
difficulty I think would be having a consistent set of information
for each material as well as having summary information
pages |
| 15:12.41 |
ken |
just add a
few more form fields on the upload page? |
| 15:12.52 |
brlcad |
like if you
wanted to do a search of all metals that have a density over some
specified value |
| 15:13.17 |
brlcad |
or if you
wanted a table of all materials that have a brinell hardness <
.2 |
| 15:13.33 |
ken |
yea, I was
just gonna say, toss in some kinda search deal beyond the very
basic find-a-page |
| 15:13.47 |
brlcad |
just looking
at an "info sheet" of rolled hardened steel #12 and comparing it to
some other material side-by-side |
| 15:14.03 |
brlcad |
and being
able to compare the same fields |
| 15:14.20 |
brlcad |
without
manually editing both wiki pages, manually categorizing every
property, etc |
| 15:15.01 |
ken |
right, just
make the search useful |
| 15:15.25 |
ken |
instead of
lists of links, bring up tables |
| 15:15.58 |
brlcad |
how would
someone "add a new material" with mediawiki, though? |
| 15:16.02 |
ken |
the one
problem I can see is that I've been told wikis can be a bit nuts
with sql queries |
| 15:16.40 |
brlcad |
I'm just
having trouble seeing how it'd work I suppose, without them
copy/pasting another existing material record that already had a
given set of fields |
| 15:16.59 |
ken |
upload file,
fill out a few info fields, and somewhere in the back some voodoo
happens that pulls out any numeric data thats too banal to make
uploaders type in |
| 15:17.14 |
brlcad |
mind you, I'm
not adept in all the intricate details of mediawiki, I mostly know
it from the initial setup, and basic editing aspects |
| 15:20.42 |
brlcad |
there isn't
any file to upload for materials (at least not yet), it's all
fundamental material properties for the most part where materials
have items like their name, density, brinell hardness, formal name,
short name, young's modulus, tensile strength, elongation at break,
etc |
| 15:22.48 |
ken |
yea, as long
as it can be read from whatever's uploaded |
| 15:24.32 |
brlcad |
erm, there
isn't a standard file format or anything for this stuff |
| 15:24.50 |
ken |
yea, I was
just looking into that |
| 15:25.08 |
brlcad |
that's where
I was thinking you'd just have a form or sections of properties
that people filled in |
| 15:25.48 |
brlcad |
sometimes you
know just a couple items like the name and a density, sometimes you
know everything like the actaul % breakdown of elemental
molecules |
| 15:26.28 |
``Erik |
http://www.explosm.net/comics
brutal |
| 15:26.32 |
ken |
so just
autofill the rest with NA or unknown? |
| 15:27.10 |
``Erik |
(and it seems
to me... with the section visibility thingymajigger... if
everything was real simple and properly marked, then a couple
stylesheets could be chucked out to 'pretty' it up |
| 15:27.12 |
``Erik |
) |
| 15:27.13 |
brlcad |
by the way,
for that particular task, there is a site that provides some of
this information, but the difference here is that this is entirely
open and free to all and that the content is specifically related
to solid modeling and rendering so we can do things like associate
textures and visible properties along with the physical
traits |
| 15:28.07 |
``Erik |
that'd allow
archaic browsers like lynx to still be happy, as the page source
is, y'know, content oriented instead of visually
oriented |
| 15:28.08 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 15:28.41 |
ken |
yea, thats
how the internets been wanting to be lately |
| 15:29.16 |
``Erik |
and last I
heard, there was no canonical list of what properties a material
has :/ that has to be decided before any serious 'content aware'
search mechanism could really be decided |
| 15:29.24 |
``Erik |
does water
have a brinell hardness? O.o |
| 15:29.31 |
brlcad |
ken: yeah, it
can be autofilled, but I'm just not seeing what then that means
w.r.t. mediawiki data -- as traditionally at least, they're
basically tracking the content for a given page that can be
freeform |
| 15:29.49 |
brlcad |
is there a
way to force pages to have a particular format in mw? |
| 15:29.59 |
``Erik |
css |
| 15:30.08 |
ken |
take for
example the image template |
| 15:30.25 |
``Erik |
iirc, the
default mw look is all in css |
| 15:30.29 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
huh?? |
| 15:30.32 |
ken |
it
is |
| 15:30.34 |
ken |
well |
| 15:30.34 |
brlcad |
you're
talking about something different |
| 15:30.40 |
brlcad |
i'm not
talking about the visual layout |
| 15:30.43 |
``Erik |
oh |
| 15:30.44 |
ken |
its xhtml +
css + jscript |
| 15:30.44 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:30.59 |
brlcad |
i don't care
about that, I mean the format of the data |
| 15:31.05 |
``Erik |
I don't think
so |
| 15:31.08 |
brlcad |
what fields
are there and which aren't |
| 15:31.19 |
``Erik |
other than
hacking the php or the local config .inc file |
| 15:32.22 |
``Erik |
I know with
the admin pages, you can tweak what's on the sidebar |
| 15:32.24 |
ken |
for uploading
an image, the default gives you the option to name it and leave a
comment |
| 15:32.37 |
brlcad |
ken: that's
what I'm referring to about making it work with mw -- you can do
that sort of forced customization in other CMS systems without the
customization (drupal, plone, joomla, etc) |
| 15:32.47 |
ken |
but theyre
stored a single sql db |
| 15:33.10 |
brlcad |
yeah, this is
sort of like how images themselves are managed |
| 15:33.12 |
ken |
all the junk
associated with uploaded media |
| 15:33.21 |
brlcad |
but instead
of images, it's a set of material properties (as a
collection) |
| 15:33.26 |
ken |
right |
| 15:33.37 |
brlcad |
how to
*enforce* that set is the trick |
| 15:33.51 |
brlcad |
as new users
aren't going to know anything about which to include or
not |
| 15:37.05 |
ken |
I see what
youre saying |
| 15:37.46 |
ken |
for some
reason, I'm still thinking of materials being uploaded
files |
| 15:38.04 |
ken |
ok |
| 15:38.07 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
are no files, the data is really scattered too (hence the strong
need for a single database) |
| 15:38.45 |
ken |
ok, so then
this beast'll pretty much have to be built from the ground up,
right? |
| 15:38.54 |
brlcad |
media might
be able to do it, i mean wikipedia sort of does this for
corporations, countries, movies, and other items |
| 15:39.15 |
brlcad |
e.g. the
right column on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_project
is sort of what we're needing |
| 15:39.30 |
brlcad |
but actually
enforced consistent format that would be used .. hundreds of
times |
| 15:40.07 |
brlcad |
and if we
have to add a field two months down the road, do we have to edit
several hundred pages, or is it just added in one place as part of
the template, etc |
| 15:40.07 |
ken |
so just
pulling data into a table? |
| 15:40.47 |
brlcad |
pretty much,
though there are also relations |
| 15:41.02 |
brlcad |
and
categories (that are not fully known right now, but do
exist) |
| 15:41.03 |
ken |
if its just
data-to-table, then you can add a field and let the contributors
fill in the blanks where they find them |
| 15:41.37 |
brlcad |
hmm..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infobox |
| 15:42.07 |
brlcad |
it's a matter
of whether they actually "see" that there are blanks |
| 15:42.20 |
brlcad |
how would
they know? |
| 15:42.43 |
ken |
drop a form
feild in the blank with a default fill of "unknown" |
| 15:42.53 |
ken |
something
that looks editable |
| 15:43.00 |
brlcad |
that works
for new, what about those already existing? |
| 15:43.00 |
ken |
like it needs
to be filled in |
| 15:43.46 |
brlcad |
say you want
to add a new field called "Ken's stamp of approval" to a database
that already has 500 items, for example |
| 15:44.23 |
brlcad |
how would I
as a user browsing/editing know that there's now a new field that
could be filled in |
| 15:44.58 |
ken |
right, it
would add a value of <input type="text"
...>unknown</input> to all pre existing items |
| 15:45.11 |
brlcad |
with the
infobox approah, according to what i'm (just now) reading .. you
could add the field, but it won't be applied to any existing
data |
| 15:45.33 |
brlcad |
"it would
add" .. howso? and what is it? |
| 15:46.55 |
ken |
when you add
a new field, it would add a new sql column to the table. the
default fill would be the unknown field |
| 15:47.40 |
brlcad |
er, are you
talking about custom or through mediawiki or both or neither?
:) |
| 15:47.46 |
ken |
custom |
| 15:47.50 |
brlcad |
ahhh |
| 15:48.00 |
brlcad |
well, for
custom sure! =) |
| 15:48.07 |
brlcad |
I thought you
were taking mw would do that |
| 15:48.12 |
brlcad |
s/taking/saying/ |
| 15:48.13 |
ken |
probably |
| 15:48.16 |
ken |
it
might |
| 15:48.43 |
ken |
but I was
talking about custom |
| 15:48.48 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 15:49.04 |
ken |
I'm not
entirely sure of EVERYTHING mediawiki capable of out of the
box |
| 15:49.16 |
ken |
*is
capable |
| 15:49.53 |
brlcad |
nor am I
frankly, just going by what I already know and what I've been
reading about the infoboxes that seem to be the closest to what
we'd need |
| 15:49.57 |
ken |
but its just
some really simple php to do this custom |
| 15:50.42 |
brlcad |
except that I
see zero-consistency enforcement with infoboxes, you have to edit
all pages if the infobox template changes .. that'd suck
:) |
| 15:50.55 |
ken |
right |
| 15:57.27 |
ken |
so we're
dropping the infobox deal and going with a fresh and new addition
to the wiki to handle this, right? |
| 15:57.35 |
ken |
sorry, I
thought I sent that already |
| 16:02.58 |
brlcad |
maybe you did
and I just misunderstood you :) |
| 16:03.33 |
ken |
no, I made a
pot of coffee and came back, it was still sitting here waiting for
me to hit enter |
| 16:03.38 |
brlcad |
do you still
think a wiki would be best, or a cms, or fully custom, or
? |
| 16:04.40 |
ken |
well, for
community development I like the idea of a wiki as opposed to
another cms simply because its so much easier for just anyone to
add to or edit or anything like that |
| 16:06.04 |
ken |
just about
everyone's already familiar with wiki markup (as opposed to most
other cmses where to, say, add a link you have to know about the
anchor tag - or use markdown, which all of 6 people on earth have
experience with) |
| 16:06.23 |
ken |
and if theyre
not, its a lot simpler to learn and faster to use |
| 16:07.50 |
ken |
for this
part, just tack it on to mw |
| 16:09.33 |
ken |
write the
functionality we're looking for, staple it to the wiki as either a
plug in or part of the actual base... something like
that |
| 16:10.03 |
ken |
or drupal, or
whatever youre going with |
| 16:11.42 |
ken |
like I said,
I like the idea of a wiki for this part, but then I just kinda
walked in today, and I'm not entirely as familiar with the needs of
the site overall as anyone who's been working on it (or even just
thinking about it) for more than 20 minutes |
| 16:12.24 |
ken |
a wiki also
has the benefit of functioning as a wiki |
| 16:18.10 |
brlcad |
I agree in
general on the ease of use, wiki certainly has the power over cms
for that, though in this case it's sort of "form-centric" where
there's a predefined set of data (that will likely change over
time, but is part of the structure regardless) |
| 16:19.18 |
brlcad |
and don't get
me wrong, I'm not advocating one vs the other -- I just like to
think things through for how they'd work in practice down the road,
maintainability and growth |
| 16:20.36 |
brlcad |
the wiki has
a big leg up on customizability since, as you note, anyone could
amend the template without needing to know html or sql or php, etc
.. it's just then consistency of the "database" itself where some
materials would be conformant to an old template, some to a
newer |
| 16:21.28 |
brlcad |
the main
portal site is actually going to be a drupal/mediawiki hybrid that
work with each other |
| 16:22.00 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron already has both set up and
working now, ready for data to start being entered to populate that
section |
| 16:23.22 |
brlcad |
there's
another guy looking at the performance database, though from what
he'd discussed, I think he's going a custom route (conceptually, it
could use the same mediawiki plugin if one was made for the
materials) |
| 16:28.52 |
brlcad |
ken: so, I
like your idea .. the next question then is how familiar are you
with mediawiki plugins :) |
| 16:29.10 |
ken |
brb,
phone |
| 16:30.48 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
I'd have to imagine that mediawiki already has _something_ that
would help for doing this already as I'd think it'd be pretty
common to want to have form data in the wiki format |
| 16:35.00 |
ken |
i have this
minor crisis to deal with, whens a good time to come band get ahold
of ya? this evening/tomorrowish? |
| 16:37.22 |
brlcad |
i'm on the
channel most days every day at some time of the day :) |
| 16:37.31 |
brlcad |
just hop on
irc and linger a while, you'll usually find me |
| 16:37.36 |
brlcad |
otherwise the
mailing list is fine too |
| 16:38.03 |
brlcad |
i'm eastern
u.s. timezone-wise, if that helps |
| 16:38.26 |
brlcad |
though my
"offline"/sleep schedule is fairly chaotic |
| 16:46.21 |
ken |
kk thx, I'll
be back tonight |
| 16:52.45 |
*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid
Modeling || http://brlcad.org ||
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| for ken:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates |
| 16:53.02 |
brlcad |
looks like
templates actually can work for this |
| 16:53.13 |
brlcad |
the only
issue then becomes comparisons, searching, and
summaries |
| 17:07.11 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 17:12.52 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-204-120.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:18.14 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:33.16 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177878618.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:56.48 |
poolio |
brlcad:
what's up with my.brlcad.org? I kind of like the new look...
:P |
| 17:58.00 |
brlcad |
heh, that's
drupal's default theme |
| 17:59.04 |
poolio |
I like it
:) |
| 17:59.13 |
poolio |
brlcad: can I
get a vhost on my.brlcad.org and use it? |
| 17:59.29 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 17:59.56 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/fo2gOO80.html
``Erik, look familiar ;) |
| 17:59.57 |
poolio |
sweeet |
| 18:00.22 |
poolio |
brlcad: how's
that worth with like the databases and stuff? can two simultaneous
drupal vhosts exist peacefully? |
| 18:02.22 |
brlcad |
they have
nothing to do with each other |
| 18:02.31 |
brlcad |
you could use
the same db or an entirely different db |
| 18:02.37 |
poolio |
hmm
alright. |
| 18:02.41 |
brlcad |
vhosts can be
set up fairly arbitrarily too |
| 18:03.00 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/Jd17Ls16.html
``Erik... too sweet :) |
| 18:03.01 |
brlcad |
vhost, btw
would be on "brlcad.org" .. "my.brlcad.org" is a vhost on
brlcad.org |
| 18:03.03 |
poolio |
Hmm, so like
if I wanted to have my own sited hosted by you that used drupal,
that'd work completely fine? |
| 18:03.12 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 18:03.12 |
poolio |
brlcad: well
I have my own domain name |
| 18:03.20 |
poolio |
I justt don't
have the box online anymore |
| 18:03.27 |
brlcad |
ah,
gotya |
| 18:03.31 |
poolio |
brlcad: So
how would I go about doing that? Or would you need to do
it? |
| 18:03.37 |
brlcad |
i read it as
the name, not the box |
| 18:03.59 |
brlcad |
box is
generally called just .bz or mbo ;) |
| 18:04.26 |
brlcad |
you'd need to
update your dns to point to an IP that I'd give you, then I'd set
up apache to respond to that name |
| 18:04.37 |
brlcad |
then it'd be
done |
| 18:04.44 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
mainly want to get a blog going with the progress of it. As I'm
going to be tewaking a lot of variables it'd be nice if I could see
my own progress and see if it is in fact progressing, and also that
way I can aviod spamming the chat so much with images and
descriptions. (and also when people ask what I'm working on I can
point them to an explanation as opposed to rewriting paragraphs and
paragraphs ;)) |
| 18:04.50 |
brlcad |
takes all of
10 minutes to set up at most |
| 18:05.06 |
poolio |
alright cool.
whenever you have time that'd be sweet |
| 18:06.14 |
brlcad |
aiight, the
ip can be 66.111.56.56, so just let me know which name |
| 18:07.07 |
poolio |
what do you
mean which name? as in what's my domain name? |
| 18:08.47 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 18:09.03 |
poolio |
poolio.org |
| 18:10.02 |
poolio |
brlcad has
brlcad.org, poolio has poolio.org |
| 18:18.44 |
brlcad |
done |
| 18:18.51 |
poolio |
brlcad: heh,
thanks |
| 18:19.02 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
what do I need to do on my side? point the domain to that
IP? |
| 18:21.26 |
poolio |
brlcad: is it
ip-based? like can I just forward to the mbo box? and it will
disambiguate the IP to the poolio.org vhost? |
| 18:32.17 |
poolio |
brlcad: woah,
there's something messed up with the DNS as it propogates....I'm
pinging poolio.org and half the time I'm getting my home address
and the other half I'm getting the right one on mbo :P |
| 18:34.31 |
brlcad |
poolio: you
update your dns record for poolio.org to point to that IP as the
"A" record |
| 18:35.08 |
poolio |
brlcad: Yeah
I got that, but in terms of how the VHOST works |
| 18:35.12 |
brlcad |
you
apparently have dns set to everydns.net |
| 18:35.29 |
brlcad |
s/to/through/ |
| 18:35.32 |
poolio |
That IP is
just the IP of mbo, how does it distinguish whcih VHOST to send the
request to? via the header? |
| 18:35.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: I've
updated the records already |
| 18:35.46 |
brlcad |
requests come
in by the url, by name |
| 18:35.52 |
poolio |
ah
alright |
| 18:36.04 |
poolio |
and setting
up drupal? is that hard? |
| 18:36.27 |
brlcad |
so the apache
can be asked to respond to requests for .. pretty much anything --
by default it won't respond to anything it doesn't
recognize |
| 18:36.40 |
brlcad |
you tell me,
have fun :) |
| 18:36.47 |
IriX64 |
http://www.rafb.net/paste/ <---
man, help me out here where's that // coming from? |
| 18:36.51 |
brlcad |
(no, it's not
hard at all .. one of the easiest) |
| 18:37.11 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright, so drupal is installed in the my.brlcad.org VHOST, do I
have to ..reinstall it in mine? |
| 18:37.16 |
brlcad |
IriX64:
that's an empty pastebin |
| 18:37.23 |
poolio |
and does the
VHOST go to my ~/public_html? |
| 18:37.32 |
IriX64 |
whup, just a
sec |
| 18:38.05 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/dT8MFf21.html |
| 18:38.08 |
IriX64 |
there |
| 18:38.09 |
brlcad |
poolio: no,
it doesn't -- you still have your ~poolio home if needed on any of
the names (poolio.org/~poolio should respond for
example) |
| 18:38.26 |
brlcad |
it's in a
different location |
| 18:38.36 |
louipc |
it should go
to wherever your ip port 80 points to huh? |
| 18:40.20 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 18:40.57 |
brlcad |
IriX64: i've
got no idea how you got yourself into that situation |
| 18:41.13 |
IriX64 |
mmm i'll try
--disable-shared |
| 18:41.13 |
brlcad |
obviously got
a full path in there that should not be there |
| 18:41.26 |
brlcad |
could just be
an unclean build |
| 18:41.38 |
IriX64 |
thanks will
tinker some. |
| 18:41.41 |
brlcad |
try "make
distclean" |
| 18:41.46 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 18:41.52 |
brlcad |
then rerun
autogen.sh |
| 18:42.02 |
IriX64 |
doing it
now |
| 18:44.43 |
IriX64 |
back to dos
work, I'm gonna make this thing run doom yet :) |
| 18:45.44 |
louipc |
sweet |
| 18:45.45 |
brlcad |
inside mged?
:) |
| 18:45.54 |
IriX64 |
heh in tcl
;) |
| 18:46.06 |
louipc |
I tried to
run the original ultima it was crazy |
| 18:46.26 |
louipc |
everything
was sped up 10x |
| 18:46.30 |
IriX64 |
never tried
ultima, have tried wing commander II though |
| 18:46.38 |
IriX64 |
same
problem |
| 18:46.51 |
IriX64 |
but doom is
speshul :) |
| 18:46.53 |
louipc |
there's
something out there that will slow it down for you |
| 18:47.03 |
IriX64 |
yeah
varislow, i have it |
| 18:47.15 |
brlcad |
poolio: also
noticed that you have a CNAME record on
"www.poolio.org" |
| 18:47.16 |
louipc |
I forget what
it was... hmm is that open source? |
| 18:47.21 |
brlcad |
you should
remove that or update it |
| 18:47.36 |
IriX64 |
which
varislow, i think its public domain |
| 18:47.46 |
louipc |
ah
cool |
| 18:48.07 |
IriX64 |
all i have is
the binary, no idea where the source is |
| 18:49.01 |
IriX64 |
wcII no
speech though something wonky in the sound linkage |
| 18:49.31 |
poolio |
brlcad: cname
points to poolio.org |
| 18:50.37 |
brlcad |
mmm. Ultima
V |
| 18:51.16 |
brlcad |
poolio: ah,
my bad -- i was reading something else |
| 18:51.26 |
brlcad |
compounded by
a stale dns ip result |
| 18:52.26 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah,
it's still not updated, i forgot to fix mail.poolio.org, but it
doesn't really matter, don't use it anyway |
| 18:53.11 |
IriX64 |
louipc:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/doom.png
<-- that soundblaster not responding is bogus, ive got
sound |
| 18:56.00 |
IriX64 |
can't show
you a shot of it actually running the demo, silly thing insists on
full screen |
| 18:58.13 |
IriX64 |
wcii the same
insists on full screen |
| 18:59.12 |
IriX64 |
wonder if i
can jury rig soemthing to capture the vga screen to
disk... |
| 18:59.29 |
IriX64 |
back burner
material |
| 19:13.00 |
IriX64 |
heh forgot to
light that burner ;) |
| 19:23.14 |
IriX64 |
back to fun
stuff, make install is running in a ntvdm window. |
| 19:23.51 |
IriX64 |
heh wonder if
we can call this a windows compiler now :) |
| 19:28.05 |
IriX64 |
blah, never
mind its buggered again, time to rethink sections of this cyall
l8r. |
| 20:10.33 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there any way to view the page as someone not logged in would in
drupal? getting sick of logging out |
| 20:59.16 |
louipc |
poolio:
depends on your browser I guess |
| 20:59.46 |
louipc |
you could
start a new browser instance, rather than a new window so it has
separate cookies etc... |
| 21:01.31 |
louipc |
That might be
it if you use Firefox: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile |
| 21:15.29 |
``Erik |
for that
reason, and others |
| 21:15.30 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 21:17.04 |
``Erik |
pheer,
'devrys' is hocking a psuedo-degree in video game
development |
| 21:17.27 |
louipc |
haha |
| 21:19.21 |
louipc |
I called it
the 'deliriously expensive vessel for retarded
youngins' |
| 21:19.42 |
``Erik |
hehehe sounds
about right |
| 21:19.48 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:20.00 |
``Erik |
these 'get
your degree in 3 weeks' outfits are all over the place
:( |
| 21:20.17 |
``Erik |
<-- has an
omfg 4y degree that is omfg csab accredited |
| 21:20.33 |
``Erik |
part of me
feels that it was too little training |
| 21:20.51 |
``Erik |
not 'nuff
time for even the brightest O.o I might go back for a doctorate in
cs |
| 21:37.21 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593701.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:08.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
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| 01:31.09 |
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| 02:24.10 |
poolio |
louipc: ah
yeah, forgot about that, thanks |
| 05:15.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-204-120.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:21.24 |
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| 11:53.27 |
thing0 |
hey |
| 12:01.17 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 13:14.08 |
Maloeran |
Hey, I
haven't been around for some time. I'm trying to convert the
Stanford .ply models to .g through ply-g but it gives me "This PLY
file appears to contain no geometry!!!". Yet, with -v, it claims to
find the vertices and indices. Any thoughts? |
| 13:14.58 |
Maloeran |
Before I try
to fix it or write my own converter, I'm just wondering if it could
be a known glitch |
| 13:45.29 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:50.52 |
Maloeran |
Nevermind,
got it |
| 15:09.28 |
brlcad |
what was
it? |
| 15:09.43 |
brlcad |
and howdy
Maloeran |
| 15:10.42 |
Maloeran |
I was trying
to convert the .ply point files, not the reconstructed triangle
geometry :) |
| 15:11.10 |
Maloeran |
I'm fine,
cleaning up Rayforce a bit which Mark wants to present at Siggraph.
Will you guys be there? |
| 15:11.24 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 15:12.17 |
brlcad |
so you're
presenting it at siggraph? a paper, a sketch, a poster? |
| 15:12.39 |
Maloeran |
None of the
above, Mark reserved a... booth, but I'm not too sure how that
works |
| 15:12.59 |
brlcad |
oh, heh ..
interesting |
| 15:13.09 |
Maloeran |
Just to
present the software I guess, but I wonder if it's a whole day
thing, or if I'll have time to wander around |
| 15:13.21 |
brlcad |
sounds like
it might be on the expo floor then |
| 15:14.00 |
brlcad |
so are you
attending, or just going for a day or two or? |
| 15:14.14 |
brlcad |
do you know
which day? |
| 15:14.37 |
Maloeran |
I'm attending
for the whole week, I just hope I won't have to stay at that booth
thing for the whole time :) |
| 15:14.51 |
brlcad |
ah, okay,
cool |
| 15:15.00 |
Maloeran |
I'll be
bringing my desktop to run the demos on |
| 15:15.08 |
brlcad |
you went last
year iirc, yes? |
| 15:15.39 |
Maloeran |
I didn't, I
only went to the Interactive Raytracing and the other one about
Visualization with you guys |
| 15:16.14 |
brlcad |
oh, wow.. so
this will be your first siggraph then? that should be
fun |
| 15:16.30 |
Maloeran |
So far, I
didn't find these social gatherings very appealing |
| 15:16.41 |
louipc |
you need more
booze |
| 15:16.55 |
Maloeran |
Verbal
communication is great for the interactivity aspect, but I would
rather read papers than listen to presentations |
| 15:18.26 |
Maloeran |
Should I
understand that Siggraph is generally more interesting than the
conferences we went to at Salt Lake City and Baltimore? |
| 15:18.26 |
brlcad |
to each their
own, though siggraph is a bit different than rt07 and
vis |
| 15:18.42 |
brlcad |
siggraph is
*huge* in comparison |
| 15:19.18 |
brlcad |
way more
variety, way more of everything (technical and non-technical, art
and scientific, etc) |
| 15:19.36 |
Maloeran |
Ah, sounds
good |
| 15:20.06 |
brlcad |
generally
very beautiful and interesting to attend |
| 15:20.56 |
brlcad |
so is mark
attending too? |
| 15:21.22 |
Maloeran |
Yes, and he's
bringing his whole family! :) And, similarly, I'll bring my
desktop |
| 15:21.38 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 15:21.50 |
brlcad |
well that
should be interesting |
| 15:22.47 |
Maloeran |
Is Erik
coming as well? Lee, Justin? |
| 15:23.03 |
brlcad |
that you know
of, only myself and lee |
| 15:23.18 |
Maloeran |
Ah,
okay |
| 15:24.04 |
brlcad |
any other
guys going from your group? |
| 15:24.39 |
Maloeran |
Hum, not that
I'm aware of |
| 15:25.22 |
brlcad |
bob or keith
would be the only candidates that come to mind |
| 15:25.41 |
brlcad |
but then
never know what mark is up to sometimes :) |
| 15:26.07 |
brlcad |
so what have
you been up to? you sorta disappeared |
| 15:26.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 15:26.51 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, I
think I unconsciously stopped the ritual of attaching irc clients,
it was way too time consuming |
| 15:27.19 |
Maloeran |
I used to
help people for 1-3 hours daily on Efnet *shivers*. I have been
busy with computational fluid dynamics mostly, it's very
interesting, amazingly challenging |
| 15:27.47 |
brlcad |
cfd work eh
.. any pictures to show? :) |
| 15:28.49 |
Maloeran |
None yet, but
I'm really close to that. |
| 15:29.34 |
Maloeran |
I spent about
2 months just learning the physics involved ; viscosity,
turbulence, speed of sound... They want me to rewrite some horrible
50k lines Fortran code |
| 15:30.00 |
Maloeran |
It's not just
horrible, it's plain wrong ( no conservation of momentum, etc.
) |
| 15:30.06 |
brlcad |
and of course
knowing you, you're almost done then :) |
| 15:30.25 |
Maloeran |
Eh well, not
exactly :), mostly because I'm aiming very high |
| 15:30.50 |
Maloeran |
They didn't
even have conservation of momentum... and I want to give them
shockwaves, blasts, turbulence, viscosity |
| 15:31.02 |
brlcad |
so what's to
come of rayforce then? I imagine this demo at siggraph is mark's
way to try and market it |
| 15:31.36 |
brlcad |
or is
rayforce development coming to an end as you move into
cfd? |
| 15:31.40 |
Maloeran |
I took a long
break, I was saturated of Raytracing, I think I was beginning to
feel physical pain when I tried to force me to work on it near the
end |
| 15:31.51 |
brlcad |
yeah, I got
that |
| 15:32.08 |
brlcad |
i mean that
was noticeably visible even over irc that you were burning
out |
| 15:32.41 |
Maloeran |
Ah, quite
true... Survice doesn't know that, but the first few months, I
think I was doing nothing but work. I mean 60-80 hours a
week |
| 15:33.01 |
Maloeran |
Anyhow,
regarding Rayforce, Mark has plans to integrate it into their
software, Archer's successor, and see if there's commerical
potential |
| 15:34.08 |
brlcad |
interesting |
| 15:35.01 |
brlcad |
but then I
think that for most code that's not got an analysis
association |
| 15:35.56 |
Maloeran |
It's not
really mainstream software, being open-source is not that...
critical, if I may say. Besides, I'll certainly never allow the
patents to get in the way of open-source developers |
| 15:36.38 |
Maloeran |
( Mark
registered patents to my name on the techniques ) |
| 15:37.35 |
brlcad |
doesn't have
to be mainstream to be intersting and useful :) |
| 15:37.50 |
brlcad |
information
wants to be free :) |
| 15:38.31 |
Maloeran |
:) Oh, I
agree. It may well end up open-source, I think Mark just wants to
see if there's commercial potential at Siggraph |
| 15:38.46 |
brlcad |
yeah, I got
that much :) |
| 15:39.55 |
Maloeran |
I have doubts
myself, I don't think it performs that much better ( if at all
better ) to Reschetov's latest code, or whoever else's. I haven't
followed raytracing papers |
| 15:39.57 |
brlcad |
he's
unfortunately not got the demo connections to throw around at
siggraph (I think) in order to make that happen |
| 15:40.28 |
Maloeran |
He spoke of
Dreamworks and some other group that are supposed to come by the
booth |
| 15:40.39 |
brlcad |
well he'll
undoubtedly be at siggraph, you can just ask Reschetov
:) |
| 15:41.08 |
Maloeran |
Good point
:) |
| 15:43.12 |
Maloeran |
I'm surprised
the Stanford models appear actually more costly to render than CAD
geometry |
| 15:43.42 |
Maloeran |
Only 30M
rays/sec on that 70k triangles bunny, one third of the 140k
triangles M1 |
| 15:44.04 |
brlcad |
they're
mostly scan conversions, pathologically dense triangle surface
sets |
| 15:44.42 |
brlcad |
interesting
models, but far from representative of anything other than
scan-conversion geometry |
| 15:44.47 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I
thought this would produce good graphs since there are no long thin
triangles, I guess that was wrong |
| 15:47.03 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:47.12 |
Maloeran |
On a
completely different topic, is it safe enough to carry computer
cases by plane? I would bring the hard drives with me |
| 15:47.32 |
poolio |
mornin |
| 15:47.34 |
brlcad |
safe
enough? |
| 15:47.44 |
brlcad |
don't see why
not |
| 15:47.55 |
brlcad |
i'll be
taking my laptop and working on the plane |
| 15:47.57 |
Maloeran |
Regarding
damage to components from being thrown around, and I wouldn't want
anyone at the luggage collection to just pick up the 3K$
case |
| 15:48.18 |
brlcad |
oh, you mean
like a desktop |
| 15:48.19 |
Maloeran |
A laptop is
different, you carry it with you ;) |
| 15:48.21 |
Maloeran |
Yes |
| 15:48.26 |
brlcad |
eek |
| 15:48.31 |
brlcad |
good
question |
| 15:48.32 |
Maloeran |
A big and
heavy desktop computer case |
| 15:48.37 |
poolio |
where you
guys headed? |
| 15:48.56 |
brlcad |
poolio:
siggraph in san diego |
| 15:49.01 |
poolio |
hehe,
enjoy |
| 15:49.04 |
poolio |
when is
that? |
| 15:49.10 |
brlcad |
in about two
weeks |
| 15:50.08 |
Maloeran |
Any thoughts
about carrying a case, brlcad? Or I could somehow ship it, but I'm
not sure that's really better |
| 15:50.11 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: I'd
be rather uncomfortable sending a machine that way, I'd probably
ship it |
| 15:51.12 |
brlcad |
going to cost
probably 50-100 to ship it each way, depending on the
weight |
| 15:51.22 |
Maloeran |
I still have
the case's cardboard box and styrofoam, but it's clearly a box for
a large computer case |
| 15:51.55 |
brlcad |
well that's
great then .. can put it in that box and take it to some place like
dhl |
| 15:52.31 |
poolio |
brlcad: are
you doing a presentation at siggraph? |
| 15:52.38 |
brlcad |
poolio: not
this year |
| 15:52.39 |
Maloeran |
So you would
recommend this over bringing it as luggage |
| 15:52.51 |
brlcad |
yeah, there
is zero guarantee with luggage |
| 15:53.07 |
brlcad |
it might come
out fine, it might be destroyed |
| 15:53.21 |
poolio |
Maloeran:
just buy a sweet ass laptop like brlcad :) |
| 15:53.33 |
brlcad |
it'd be a
gamble, with the dice being thrown by someone that makes
$10/hr |
| 15:53.43 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
there are 8 cores Clovertown laptops around here :) |
| 15:54.10 |
Maloeran |
I see. Well,
with the hard drives out... I don't know how resistant to shocks
that stuff is |
| 15:54.29 |
poolio |
Maloeran:
geez. not fair. gimme one |
| 15:55.00 |
poolio |
there's no
chance you could borrow/rent/use someone elses nice
desktop? |
| 15:55.36 |
Maloeran |
It's more
like a high-end server machine than a desktop |
| 15:55.42 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: put
it inside your luggage and then imagine throwing it outside a
second-story building -- would you be comfortable with
that? |
| 15:55.52 |
brlcad |
that's a
perfectly viable scenario that can happen |
| 15:56.09 |
Maloeran |
Ouch,
ouch. |
| 15:56.29 |
Maloeran |
Okay, looking
into DHL |
| 15:57.55 |
brlcad |
it (should
be) survice's dime, so it shouldn't matter .. better to just be
safe, otherwise there is no demo |
| 15:58.33 |
brlcad |
that 100 or
so is dwarfed by how much it's costing to send two guys |
| 15:59.19 |
Maloeran |
Right. If I
ship it, that would free my hands to bring a bicycle too ; my hotel
is 7 miles away |
| 15:59.33 |
brlcad |
ouch |
| 15:59.50 |
brlcad |
it's on the
trolly route I hope? |
| 16:00.09 |
brlcad |
is it a
siggraph hotel? |
| 16:00.34 |
Maloeran |
I think so,
it was reserved indirectly from their site |
| 16:01.22 |
brlcad |
the
sheraton? |
| 16:01.44 |
Maloeran |
Checking... |
| 16:01.51 |
brlcad |
you might be
in the same building as three other guys |
| 16:01.55 |
Maloeran |
HILTON SAN
DIEGO MISSION VALLEY |
| 16:01.59 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 16:02.20 |
brlcad |
at least it's
a little better |
| 16:02.55 |
brlcad |
hopefully has
internet, though you can generally hang out at the convention
center until late on the wifi |
| 16:03.06 |
Maloeran |
Do you know
if there's some kind of shuttle service for all siggraph
hotels? |
| 16:03.20 |
brlcad |
there is
shuttle service if it's a siggraph hotel |
| 16:03.30 |
Maloeran |
Oh hum :), I
actually gave my laptop to a friend who was leaving for Japan for 2
years, I was very rarely using it |
| 16:04.18 |
Maloeran |
In a way,
that's also why I'm bringing my desktop |
| 16:05.32 |
Maloeran |
Well, it
looks like I won't be able to raytrace a 28 million triangles
model, malloc() refuses to cooperate |
| 16:06.17 |
brlcad |
strap the
desktop to your back, a UPS to your chest, and you're good to
go! |
| 16:07.10 |
brlcad |
Twingy was
gonna do that one year with an O2 *ahem*, that woulda been fscking
awesome :) |
| 16:07.18 |
Maloeran |
Woohoo! And a
bicycle of course, how else would a bring such a heavy E-ATX
case? |
| 16:07.25 |
Maloeran |
Hum
:) |
| 16:08.17 |
Maloeran |
Do you have
any intelligent normal smoothing code somewhere in
BRL-CAD? |
| 16:09.05 |
Maloeran |
Something
that considers angles between triangles, angles between facet
vectors, to smooth and spawn new vertices when
appropriate |
| 16:10.19 |
Maloeran |
I wrote
something a long time ago but it's brute force, it isn't meant for
models of million triangles |
| 16:10.22 |
brlcad |
rt_bot_smooth() |
| 16:10.33 |
brlcad |
not sure how
"intelligent" it is, but there is a routine for it |
| 16:10.53 |
Maloeran |
Do you know
if it will create new vertices rather than smoothing when
appropriate? |
| 16:10.56 |
brlcad |
it's in
src/librt/g_bot.c at the end |
| 16:11.49 |
brlcad |
no, it isn't
going to create more vertices iirc |
| 16:12.05 |
brlcad |
it just
smooths the ones you have |
| 16:12.19 |
Maloeran |
Right, it's a
bit too primitive. It would create rather horrible results on a
cube for example |
| 16:12.31 |
brlcad |
basically: |
| 16:12.32 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.35 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.39 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.41 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.54 |
brlcad |
because
siggraph says miles :) |
| 16:13.03 |
``Erik |
ah |
| 16:13.08 |
``Erik |
7mi ~=
10km |
| 16:13.08 |
Maloeran |
Eheh Erik,
the website said the hotel was 7 miles away. I have no idea what's
that in km |
| 16:13.24 |
``Erik |
.62 miles =
1km |
| 16:13.38 |
Maloeran |
Right, it's a
long walk, or a tiring run |
| 16:13.39 |
brlcad |
ibot: convert
7 miles to kilometers |
| 16:13.57 |
``Erik |
aboot ten,
eh? |
| 16:14.20 |
``Erik |
is that
hooked into the 'units' program? |
| 16:14.30 |
brlcad |
beats
me |
| 16:14.35 |
brlcad |
have to look
at blootbot's source |
| 16:14.47 |
brlcad |
but
probably |
| 16:15.42 |
``Erik |
something not
addressed by most unit conversion packages... a bit trickier than
the 0 base ones, but quite doable :( |
| 16:16.03 |
Maloeran |
Erik, may I
ask what's the official reason you aren't going to Siggraph this
year? Since Sean and others are going |
| 16:16.04 |
``Erik |
if nothing
else, grok kelvin vs C, and rankines vs F... ... |
| 16:16.20 |
``Erik |
because I'm
not "special", and it's written into seans contract? |
| 16:16.38 |
``Erik |
I was on the
initial list, but my bosses bosses bosses bosses bosses boss said
"only 3 gov't people go" |
| 16:16.44 |
``Erik |
and I wasn't
on that omfg list |
| 16:17.28 |
``Erik |
it's stupid,
and one of the reasons I'm about ready to step back into the civil
sector. |
| 16:18.44 |
Maloeran |
Survice looks
like a nice place from what I have seen, there are some challenging
problems to solve |
| 16:19.09 |
Maloeran |
They
basically let me pick what I wanted to work on, and CFD looked fun
:) |
| 16:19.13 |
``Erik |
there're
always challenging problems, but I'm kinda lookng at going back to
the midwest, I can afford a ferakin' mansion out there |
| 16:19.58 |
``Erik |
I have an
offer for a very comfortable job there that pays the same as what I
make now... "choose your own hours, work from home" etc |
| 16:19.59 |
``Erik |
.. |
| 16:20.09 |
``Erik |
I need to
figure out where I'm going *sigh* |
| 16:20.51 |
``Erik |
I half
suspect that if I land a decent job and regain the joy of coding,
I'll be able to do more for brlcad than where I'm at now
:/ |
| 16:21.25 |
Maloeran |
Are there any
hopes of change within the ARL if you let managers know your
dissatisfaction? |
| 16:21.38 |
``Erik |
<-- has a
strong urge to link brlcad to the gaming group |
| 16:21.39 |
Maloeran |
I can
understand that :/ |
| 16:22.02 |
``Erik |
um, I've let
several layers of mgmt know my discontent in no uncertain terms
several times |
| 16:22.05 |
Maloeran |
Brlcad,
gaming? These two concepts don't appear to mix too well |
| 16:22.19 |
``Erik |
brlcad to
generate the game models and maps, :) |
| 16:22.39 |
Maloeran |
And there's
no effort to move you around internally where you would be
happier? |
| 16:22.42 |
``Erik |
they'll put
all sorts of insane pressure on mr brlcad to make it a user
friendly modeling package, and mebbehe can sell it |
| 16:22.56 |
``Erik |
there is
effort to accept me... there is resistance to release
me |
| 16:23.25 |
``Erik |
so on
tuesday, I need to do the "I'm leaving, pick where I go, arl or
outside" speach |
| 16:23.51 |
Maloeran |
Well, there's
good people at Survice if you want to look that way. Mark is the
opposite of the pointy haired manager stereotype |
| 16:24.32 |
brlcad |
and have been
for years, that's why it's priority #1 and pretty much all of the
work going on even now has been towards solving that problem
:) |
| 16:24.39 |
``Erik |
meh, if I
escape gov't life, it'll be in a big way, I surpect |
| 16:25.05 |
``Erik |
hehehe, if
game devers get into it, mebbe they'd throw their towel in teh ring
and support it, other than bitching :) |
| 16:25.28 |
``Erik |
<-- thinks
the biggest os boon would be to get serious attention from the
videogame wannabees... |
| 16:25.53 |
``Erik |
and I like to
imagine that I'm not too terribly wrong too terribly
often |
| 16:26.00 |
brlcad |
log cabin in
the middle of nowhere with an OC128 |
| 16:26.52 |
poolio |
brlcad:
poolio.org is up, thanks again |
| 16:27.39 |
brlcad |
no problemo,
nifty |
| 16:28.47 |
brlcad |
which is what
I've been doing all weekend so far |
| 16:28.48 |
poolio |
brlcad: oh
weird, it doesn't work for me, i get a blank page? what....? it
worked fine last night :\ |
| 16:28.49 |
brlcad |
good
stuff |
| 16:29.37 |
brlcad |
poolio: it's
working just fine here |
| 16:29.47 |
brlcad |
maybe browser
cache junk |
| 16:29.55 |
poolio |
yeah appears
to be |
| 16:30.45 |
Maloeran |
Mmhm,
gamedev. I had a strange urge to create a warcraft 3 map about two
months ago ; I spent about 10 days sleeping only once every 2 days,
that was... peculiar |
| 16:31.00 |
Maloeran |
Their
scripting language is actually very complete |
| 16:31.43 |
``Erik |
'world of
warcraft' seems to use lua |
| 16:31.59 |
``Erik |
I've also
been acutely interested in 'bos' and 'danger from the
deep' |
| 16:32.14 |
``Erik |
both have
freendoe channels that I lurk... #bos and #dangerdeep
:) |
| 16:32.28 |
``Erik |
getting mac
builds of either is... highly interesting, as they both use
scons |
| 16:32.29 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 16:32.35 |
Maloeran |
I haven't
heard of these. I just wanted to create a good, deep and long
multiplayer campaign map |
| 16:33.04 |
brlcad |
http://spring.clan-sy.com/ |
| 16:33.08 |
``Erik |
dangerdeep is
a semi-realistic ww2 sub sim, bos is kinda like a starcrafty
clone |
| 16:34.03 |
Maloeran |
Never heard
of scons, and I mostly broke your autoconf stuff in Rayforce once
again :). For some reason, it's compiling the same files 5 times,
once for each binary |
| 16:34.31 |
``Erik |
'scons' is a
python make imitation, from people who don't understand portability
trying to outdo autoconfs portability... |
| 16:34.32 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 16:34.41 |
``Erik |
it's a
flaming piece of crap, imho. |
| 16:35.00 |
``Erik |
um, you
must've used name prefixes |
| 16:35.23 |
Maloeran |
I get .o
files such as rfdemo-img.o, rfmaster-img.o, etc. for the img.c
file |
| 16:35.43 |
brlcad |
ah, you set
FLAGS |
| 16:36.06 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, I set
CFLAGS |
| 16:36.08 |
brlcad |
since the
cppflags/cflags can cause different compilation results |
| 16:36.33 |
Maloeran |
I see, good
point. Though, in this case, it doesn't actually matter |
| 16:36.36 |
brlcad |
e.g. make
CFLAGS="-DBEHAVE_DIFFERENT_FOR_RFDEMO" |
| 16:37.20 |
brlcad |
set AM_CFLAGS
instead of it should be global and the multicomp should go away
iirc |
| 16:37.36 |
brlcad |
s/of/if/ |
| 16:37.51 |
Maloeran |
Thanks, I'll
try that |
| 16:38.39 |
brlcad |
it's the
rfdemo_CFLAGS that will usually cause the prefixed compilation
results |
| 16:39.49 |
Maloeran |
*nods* It
works. I mostly broke Erik's autoconf stuff when I thrown SDL away
to use X11 directly so I can do proper and efficient frame
buffering |
| 16:40.12 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548757E2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:40.52 |
Maloeran |
Do you know
if X on OSX and other platforms have the Xxf86vm
extensions? |
| 16:42.07 |
brlcad |
I believe OS
X has that, but should probably test for it in configure
regardless |
| 16:42.13 |
brlcad |
i think
mplayer has a test for that |
| 16:42.43 |
Maloeran |
configure is
still testing for SDL at the moment, but I'll attempt to correct
that |
| 16:43.13 |
``Erik |
what's so
terribly wrong with sdl? O.o |
| 16:43.44 |
``Erik |
it's been
used to make sprite based games that run over 60fps on very low end
hw |
| 16:43.48 |
Maloeran |
It's
impossible to render multiple frames simultaneously without having
to copy the whole data *twice* to get it visible |
| 16:43.59 |
Maloeran |
Yes yes, it's
all good as long as you render just one frame at a time |
| 16:44.28 |
``Erik |
hum, I
thought there was a flag to set for 'direct' drawing, so
double-buffering would be completely under developer
control |
| 16:45.19 |
Maloeran |
I dig far in
the code, I even put out a quick patch to implement multiple frame
buffers but the SDL developers weren't interested |
| 16:45.41 |
Maloeran |
Because "Most
people don't need that" and because "'S' stands for
Simple" |
| 16:45.59 |
``Erik |
hum, did they
say why? |
| 16:46.25 |
brlcad |
reasonable
test for Xxf86vm in
http://profile.iiita.ac.in/smajumdar_00/xine/xine-ui-0.9.21/configure.ac |
| 16:46.46 |
Maloeran |
I can imagine
that most people only render one frame at a time, it's
understandable, but that's not acceptable in my case |
| 16:46.53 |
Maloeran |
Thanks
brlcad |
| 16:47.16 |
``Erik |
I would
imagine that if it ere argued coherently, sammy woulda picked it up
:/ |
| 16:47.29 |
``Erik |
he seems to
be reasonable |
| 16:47.56 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
I had chatted with the lead programmer, just one of his
minion |
| 16:48.36 |
brlcad |
minion's are
useless for getting core changes |
| 16:48.47 |
``Erik |
sam
langtingua or whatever, that's the homey to talk to |
| 16:48.52 |
``Erik |
he watches
the mailing list |
| 16:49.29 |
Maloeran |
Before I
wrote the code for it, I posted on the mailing list to ask for
thoughts on the idea, the feature was "unlikely" to be
implemented |
| 16:49.49 |
``Erik |
lame |
| 16:49.56 |
Maloeran |
It required
changes for every platform and I only did the X11 one, so I can
understand why they were reluctant |
| 16:50.06 |
Maloeran |
But anyway,
things are working nicely using X11 directly |
| 16:50.21 |
``Erik |
nothing wrong
with straight x11 if you're *nix only |
| 16:50.22 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 16:50.30 |
Maloeran |
Exactly
:) |
| 16:51.05 |
``Erik |
<-- has a
couple striaght x11 programs in his devel/ tree |
| 16:52.02 |
Maloeran |
*nods* So do
I |
| 16:52.23 |
Maloeran |
The
documentation on the API and extensions is sometimes lacking, I
found that a bit annoying |
| 16:52.52 |
``Erik |
<-- may be
a weirdo, but truely enjoys saurkraut as a hot dog
topping |
| 16:53.11 |
Maloeran |
"This
parameter is... a mask flag! And we'll let you guess the rest, what
it's for and what values it can take." |
| 16:53.24 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 16:56.31 |
Maloeran |
What could
make AM_CFLAGS be ignored in a Makefile.am? Suddently, it's not
added to the compilation lines anymore |
| 16:58.00 |
Maloeran |
Ah nevermind,
it's only automatic if no specific CFLAGS are specified for a
binary. Got it |
| 16:59.09 |
brlcad |
yeah,
per-binary overrrides, you'd have to say you wanted them if you
override like rfdemo_CFLAGS="${AM_CFLAGS} -O1000 -DYUM" |
| 16:59.31 |
Maloeran |
*nods* Thank
you |
| 17:13.46 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177878662.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:17.38 |
IriX64 |
errors
everywhere and make keeps on trucking (my new and improved
-i(gnore) switch works beautifullu) |
| 17:17.59 |
IriX64 |
-u+y |
| 17:19.50 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/Lm7x7L15.html
< ---- see |
| 17:21.07 |
poolio |
I think
there's a reasons errors cause aborting |
| 17:21.33 |
IriX64 |
there is but
sometimes you know (ill fix it later type of thing) |
| 17:22.02 |
IriX64 |
why let one
bit of the project keep you from testing the rest |
| 17:22.39 |
poolio |
well if the
entire rest of the project depends on that part... |
| 17:22.46 |
poolio |
IriX64: also,
got my website up and running: poolio.org |
| 17:22.56 |
IriX64 |
agreed then
your hornswoggled |
| 17:23.07 |
IriX64 |
http://poolio.org? |
| 17:23.55 |
poolio |
jah |
| 17:24.45 |
IriX64 |
hahah nice
site (jokingly says needs fleshing out ) ducking and running
:) |
| 17:25.11 |
poolio |
it's minimal.
not designed to be pretty or fleshed out. no need. |
| 17:25.17 |
IriX64 |
better than
mine |
| 17:26.03 |
poolio |
never seen
yours ;) |
| 17:26.32 |
IriX64 |
heh yah you
have its just got some files on it (supposed to put a page up but
i'm lazy) |
| 17:27.50 |
IriX64 |
maybe i'll
re-install staroffice and design a page |
| 17:28.21 |
IriX64 |
64bit
staroffice? /me muses |
| 17:31.28 |
IriX64 |
that disk
crash did me good, I've never had so much fun putting things back
where they're sposed to be, I'm about 50%recovered |
| 17:32.08 |
Maloeran |
You should
install Gentoo, you'll have a lot of fun constantly fixing
stuff |
| 17:33.36 |
IriX64 |
heh i'm busy
enough as it is |
| 17:34.14 |
poolio |
busy enough
fixing windows constantly :) |
| 17:34.24 |
Maloeran |
Recently, I
just installed some package for a library, and... PAM broke with
"Module not found" so it was impossible to log in, then fsck.ext3
had disappeared so it didn't want to mount the root partition, and
a couple other pleasant discoveries |
| 17:34.47 |
poolio |
livecd to the
rescue? |
| 17:35.00 |
Maloeran |
Installing
that package just "removed" many critical pieces, even thought
Portage still believed they were installed |
| 17:35.16 |
Maloeran |
Ah, I fixed
things manually, I know Linux enough by now :) |
| 17:35.26 |
Maloeran |
even
though* |
| 17:35.30 |
poolio |
hmm, just
switched over to debian from gentoo. really like it so far. apt-get
upgrade is around 30x faster than emerge -u world |
| 17:37.24 |
Maloeran |
I prefer to
do things manually to a great extend, but there's something wrong
when installing a library removes many chunks of critical software
everywhere |
| 17:37.53 |
poolio |
not the
Gentoo Penguin? |
| 17:38.07 |
Maloeran |
The Gentoo
mascot is a cow, is it not? Or it used to be |
| 17:38.26 |
poolio |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_penguin |
| 17:38.46 |
poolio |
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml |
| 17:38.48 |
poolio |
I think
you're right |
| 17:38.55 |
poolio |
named after a
penguin, but their mascot is a cow, hmm. |
| 17:39.14 |
IriX64 |
my mascot is
#undef ;) |
| 17:50.07 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/0cqq9B36.html
are you interested in this? it's tedit in mged |
| 17:53.08 |
IriX64 |
never mind
its that wgl stuff |
| 17:53.22 |
brlcad |
IriX64: no,
i'm not interestd in that :) |
| 17:53.30 |
IriX64 |
thought so
:) |
| 17:53.40 |
brlcad |
as it's a
random error after you've provoked the build way too many times to
get that far to be useful |
| 17:54.01 |
IriX64 |
heh come its
semi-useful :) |
| 17:55.50 |
IriX64 |
provoked the
build ... interesting is that why it's biting my hand off
;) |
| 17:57.34 |
IriX64 |
btw i'm just
exploring, and theres quite a bit of wgl stuff, dm_xvars.h and
dm_wgl.h have issues |
| 17:59.02 |
brlcad |
of course
they do |
| 17:59.16 |
brlcad |
it all stems
from your configure tests not working as they are expected
to |
| 17:59.24 |
brlcad |
that has been
the problem from the beginning |
| 17:59.34 |
brlcad |
for months
and months, it hasn't changed |
| 17:59.36 |
IriX64 |
well I told
you my system was strange |
| 17:59.57 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
matter if it's strange of now, it's just configure
tests |
| 18:00.08 |
IriX64 |
you indicated
you wouldn/t mind me pasting the errors as they might prove
usefull |
| 18:00.10 |
brlcad |
the tests
aren't doing what's expected, and until they do, this will be the
case |
| 18:00.33 |
brlcad |
i also said
it entirely depends on how you get those errors |
| 18:00.41 |
brlcad |
random errors
are not useful |
| 18:00.58 |
brlcad |
methodical
ones done in progress can be if it's isolatable |
| 18:01.21 |
IriX64 |
btw that tree
still awairts you |
| 18:01.25 |
IriX64 |
awaits
too |
| 18:01.26 |
brlcad |
if you edit
*anything* that you've not been asked to edit, then it's a random
error |
| 18:01.46 |
brlcad |
if it's an
error after *any* previous error, then it's effectively a random
error |
| 18:01.47 |
IriX64 |
good now
we're clear |
| 18:02.08 |
brlcad |
we've been
"clear" a couple dozen times :) |
| 18:02.26 |
IriX64 |
heh i know
but at the very least its comic releif no:) |
| 18:02.35 |
Maloeran |
Practice
makes perfect! |
| 18:02.49 |
IriX64 |
ill keep
practicing |
| 18:03.32 |
IriX64 |
thanks for
letting me hang out is what i'm trying to say here. |
| 18:04.33 |
brlcad |
you could be
so much more productive on brl-cad if you simply wanted to be, and
gave yourself credit when it was due for effort you do put in that
helps |
| 18:05.38 |
brlcad |
if your build
environment were working, you'd probably be a great regression
tester :) |
| 18:05.46 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/OheeIZ16.html
<--- thanks, this is more fun, make did it i really don't think
itll run that was supposed to be a mingw32 build :) |
| 18:06.42 |
brlcad |
i think you
might have missed about four periods there :) |
| 18:07.16 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 18:09.22 |
IriX64 |
looking for
the jove.exe, it's not there i wonder why :) |
| 18:11.18 |
Maloeran |
Yay, typical.
SSE3 added wonderful instructions such as haddps for horizontal
adding... except that it's slower than the sequence
movaps,shufps,addps which produces the same result |
| 18:12.36 |
IriX64 |
you using a
dissasembler Maloeran? |
| 18:14.26 |
Maloeran |
No, trying to
optimize some code |
| 18:19.41 |
IriX64 |
by hand?
kudos |
| 18:21.15 |
IriX64 |
which
processor, may I ask? |
| 18:21.26 |
Maloeran |
Yes although
I'm mostly trying to get GCC to produce good code from C instead.
As always, it's not going too well, GCC is rather stupid regarding
register allocation and memory aliasing |
| 18:21.29 |
Maloeran |
Xeon
Clovertown |
| 18:22.10 |
IriX64 |
16? or
8? |
| 18:22.46 |
Maloeran |
Hum, I don't
understand the question |
| 18:22.53 |
IriX64 |
gcc? what
version supports that? |
| 18:23.33 |
Maloeran |
Ah, I'm using
gcc 4.1.2 but the mtune optimisation swich is -mtune=nocona, the
same as Core 2 chips |
| 18:23.41 |
IriX64 |
doesn't
matter im in over my head anyway :) |
| 18:24.26 |
IriX64 |
mine is a
simple opteron |
| 18:24.54 |
IriX64 |
but im trying
for global coverage instead of targetting one processor |
| 18:27.24 |
IriX64 |
although
-march=opteron -mtune=opteron works here |
| 18:27.31 |
IriX64 |
err
= |
| 19:04.47 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-079.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:02.13 |
louipc |
What's a good
way to describe BRL-CAD as powerful without actually using the
word? It seems too many packages use that magic word. |
| 21:02.56 |
``Erik |
'big hairy
balls' |
| 21:03.21 |
``Erik |
it has over
400 specialty tools built on it *shrug* |
| 21:03.35 |
louipc |
comprehensive? hah |
| 21:03.53 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 21:05.31 |
louipc |
extensive! |
| 21:20.47 |
``Erik |
*shrug* throw
the #'s out? 30 years in the making, over 400 binaries, ...
*shrug* |
| 21:38.49 |
louipc |
that might
work |
| 21:41.01 |
``Erik |
is it just
me, or is mia kirshner totally rompable? O.o |
| 21:41.37 |
louipc |
oh
yeah |
| 21:42.49 |
``Erik |
'not another
teen movie' is on comedy central... |
| 21:43.00 |
louipc |
heheh |
| 00:34.42 |
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| 00:43.58 |
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| 02:17.13 |
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| 02:33.55 |
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| 02:38.55 |
IriX64 |
fprot |
| 02:38.59 |
IriX64 |
whup |
| 02:46.39 |
poolio |
qwesd? |
| 03:15.15 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad-7.8.4-havoc.jpg |
| 03:20.47 |
poolio |
purty. |
| 03:29.51 |
IriX64 |
swet
too |
| 03:29.56 |
IriX64 |
*sweet |
| 03:30.18 |
IriX64 |
shower time,
i'll be back |
| 04:23.17 |
IriX64 |
now if i
could get 7.10.1 to do that :) |
| 04:25.05 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 04:56.28 |
IriX64 |
anybody
awake? I have a hypothetical question |
| 04:58.23 |
IriX64 |
called redhat
trying to get a licence to spread cygwin dll's around, they say no
licence needed, what would be involved if i wanted to give selected
friends a cygwin build of brlcad, either 7.8.4 or 7.10 |
| 05:36.04 |
brlcad |
what does
redhat have to do with cygwin? |
| 05:57.23 |
IriX64 |
cygwin page
says contact redhat for licence |
| 05:57.30 |
IriX64 |
so i
did |
| 05:59.06 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 05:59.18 |
brlcad |
didn't know
they had much to do with each other |
| 05:59.26 |
IriX64 |
me
either |
| 06:03.17 |
yukonbob |
redhat owns
cygwin, iirc |
| 06:04.00 |
IriX64 |
wasn't sure
but like a good boy i called |
| 06:04.10 |
IriX64 |
and he said
no licence required |
| 06:10.18 |
IriX64 |
i just get
this system back up and i get the itch to try enterprise
sigh |
| 06:11.37 |
yukonbob |
what would be
required is that *you* provide access to source code, as per the
gpl. apparently it's not enough to say "go get the code from the
Internet". |
| 06:11.48 |
yukonbob |
^--
IriX64 |
| 06:12.14 |
IriX64 |
got it but
ill just give it to brlcad and let him support it :P |
| 06:12.52 |
yukonbob |
I'm sure
he'll be happy to have something to use that free time he's been
looking to fill... |
| 06:13.01 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 06:13.22 |
IriX64 |
7.8.4 is
discontinued is it not? |
| 06:15.26 |
IriX64 |
my system is
special though... |
| 06:15.52 |
IriX64 |
i visited
www.mgm.com from the recycle bin window |
| 06:17.10 |
IriX64 |
my whole
system is kinda tweaked here and there |
| 06:19.23 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: what
do you mean "discontinued" |
| 06:19.41 |
IriX64 |
no longer
being developed or is it? |
| 06:21.05 |
yukonbob |
considering
7.10.x is based on tcl/tk 8.5, and tcl/tk 8.5 is still in
development, I hope that 7.8.4 is still on people's radar... Maybe
not for feature enhancements, but at least for bug
fixing... |
| 06:23.35 |
IriX64 |
noted, but my
point is its not on cvs anymore, I was hoping the latest would
still be avilable or at least an up to date tarball
issued |
| 06:24.00 |
yukonbob |
ah... no
idea... |
| 06:27.24 |
IriX64 |
coffee break
:) |
| 06:46.06 |
IriX64 |
btw brlcad,
your tree awaits you ;) |
| 06:48.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 06:56.56 |
IriX64_ |
bjorkBSD i
didn't see you come in, greets |
| 07:15.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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| 07:28.03 |
IriX64 |
hey |
| 10:14.15 |
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| 11:26.57 |
*** join/#brlcad akreal
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| 14:09.31 |
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| 15:26.01 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
going to adjust the fitness to be based off of similarity not off
difference, maybe that will help out |
| 15:30.14 |
brlcad |
hm,
okay |
| 15:32.30 |
poolio |
well I
currently have the depth of the boundign box, and I'm saying like
1-diff/depth |
| 15:32.39 |
poolio |
so I'm
switching to just same/depth |
| 15:34.05 |
poolio |
so basically
fitness will be the intersection of the voxel data and the CSG tree
divided by the union of the two |
| 16:09.29 |
brlcad |
poolio: hmm,
I'm not sure you should account for CSG tree depth just yet, or if
you do, it should simply be a fixed sliver of the fitness
value |
| 16:10.03 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright |
| 16:10.15 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
really neecd to somehow though, when I ran it without tree depth I
got >10MB .g files |
| 16:10.25 |
poolio |
and it would
take forever to run |
| 16:10.34 |
poolio |
trees has
upwards of 100 leaves |
| 16:11.02 |
brlcad |
like N % of
fitness where #nodes for a given candidate divided by the biggest
candidate |
| 16:11.49 |
brlcad |
you can fix
it at something known to be smaller for starters, maybe make it a
command line param for how many nodes to have max |
| 16:12.07 |
brlcad |
I can
generally look at a model and estimate about how many primitives
it'll take to represent it |
| 16:12.44 |
poolio |
alright |
| 16:12.59 |
brlcad |
that can
reduce some complexity for now too |
| 16:13.11 |
poolio |
so say 75% of
fitness is it compared to the model, and the other 25 is
#nodes/max_nodes ? |
| 16:13.28 |
brlcad |
since for
your inputs for there are just a handful of objects, and a very
specific optimal value, might as well feed it that value and see if
it can even find it |
| 16:13.28 |
poolio |
Yeah that'd
be great. I think it'd really struggle not knowing a general
proximity for # of nodes |
| 16:14.23 |
brlcad |
you can do
that, or just fix it at the user-supplied value |
| 16:14.44 |
brlcad |
that way, the
fitness can just be %matching / total space |
| 16:15.50 |
brlcad |
once that is
working, then you could add in something that tries to
automatically figure out the number of primtivies and takes tree
sizes into account, but that really sounds like a future
step |
| 16:16.16 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 16:16.28 |
poolio |
I really wish
I could get the damn thing working with this fairly trivial
case |
| 16:16.37 |
poolio |
then I could
move on to all these features that I'd really like to see
implemented |
| 16:18.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: wait,
but %matching/total_space doesnt take into account the
user-supplied node value |
| 16:18.25 |
brlcad |
sounds like
it's perhaps time for me to dive into the code in more detail for a
bit |
| 16:18.39 |
brlcad |
hm? |
| 16:18.51 |
poolio |
You said
"|12:16| <@ brlcad> that way, the fitness can just be
%matching / total space" |
| 16:19.24 |
brlcad |
i'm saying
that for starters, if the user ran ./beset -n 10, it'd just create
models that had 10 primitives |
| 16:19.25 |
poolio |
I think a lot
of the problem is making sure I have a good initial population and
coming up with a good fitness function |
| 16:19.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: oh
alright |
| 16:19.58 |
poolio |
but with
crossover % set so high, and crossover randomly choosing any node,
it's not likely to maintain that node count |
| 16:20.08 |
brlcad |
the fitness
should be based on how much of the model correctly matches+misses /
total space .. basically % correct |
| 16:20.11 |
poolio |
which could
be part of the problem, and it might be worth implementing that
selection strategy you talked about earlier |
| 16:20.48 |
poolio |
brlcad: yes,
I was just thinking include tree depth |
| 16:20.58 |
brlcad |
ah, crossover
would have to only swap nodes of equal depth, yes |
| 16:21.11 |
poolio |
say have
fitness be %correct - abs(user-specified - node_count) |
| 16:21.17 |
brlcad |
s/depth/node
count/ |
| 16:21.49 |
poolio |
brlcad: Is
that how crossover should work? what I've read said it's just two
random nodes |
| 16:21.59 |
poolio |
but that does
make sense |
| 16:22.03 |
poolio |
actually that
makes a lot of sense |
| 16:22.12 |
brlcad |
for the
fitness equation to work, that's what it'd have to be |
| 16:22.21 |
poolio |
well the
logic seems like it should be that |
| 16:22.21 |
brlcad |
otherwise you
need a different fitness function |
| 16:22.31 |
brlcad |
and that's
the whole point, so you can have a simple fitness
function |
| 16:22.38 |
poolio |
although with
that it's always going to keep the same node count, and the
population will be very static |
| 16:22.58 |
poolio |
it'd mean
your initial population would have to include atleast one
individual with the number of nodes that will be in the
model |
| 16:23.34 |
poolio |
if you cross
at different node counts, I see the error... You could replace a
tree with say 10 nodes, with just one leaf |
| 16:23.53 |
poolio |
so two highly
fit individuals have the same chance of creating an awful
individual as they do a good one |
| 16:23.56 |
poolio |
hrmph |
| 16:24.22 |
brlcad |
and i don't
think "%correct - abs(user-specified - node_count)" is the next
step .. should try to simplify so it's just %correct for
now |
| 16:25.22 |
poolio |
alright |
| 16:25.34 |
poolio |
Yes, that's a
good plan |
| 16:25.45 |
poolio |
that's what
you meant by reducing dimensionality earlier |
| 16:25.51 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 16:26.04 |
poolio |
I should
listen better |
| 16:26.34 |
poolio |
alright so
I'll try to fix it up and fix fitness to be %correct |
| 16:27.07 |
brlcad |
i think you
sort of jumped right into a 30-valued polynomial that you're trying
to solve for :) |
| 16:27.19 |
poolio |
basically |
| 16:27.27 |
poolio |
I was hoping
for some GA voodoo magic |
| 16:27.32 |
poolio |
it did kind
of work |
| 16:27.36 |
poolio |
but I guess
that was moreso luck |
| 16:27.45 |
``Erik |
bleh |
| 16:27.51 |
brlcad |
which I think
is solvable, but getting that fitness right on the first shot is
exceptionally hard |
| 16:27.53 |
poolio |
alloo
``Erik |
| 16:28.10 |
``Erik |
'sup? is your
evolution code evolving nicely? |
| 16:28.25 |
poolio |
I should
write a GA to evolve itself to be a GA |
| 16:28.25 |
gut_feeling |
``Erik: how
is your openbsd emulation? |
| 16:28.33 |
poolio |
s/itself/my
code |
| 16:28.42 |
poolio |
``Erik: no,
it's not. |
| 16:28.52 |
``Erik |
untouched,
karel, keeps sig12'ing during boot :( |
| 16:29.09 |
``Erik |
I may
repurpose a down machine here soon :/ |
| 16:30.26 |
poolio |
brlcad:
should I search a tree for all nodes of some given depth or can I
just randomly pick nodes until they fit together |
| 16:30.27 |
gut_feeling |
>/win
11 |
| 16:30.32 |
poolio |
I guess the
former is much better |
| 16:31.23 |
``Erik |
sf
discontinued their compile farm, right? |
| 16:35.21 |
poolio |
brlcad: so it
looks like i need to pick a certain node on the first tree, count
how many child nodes it has, search the second tree for nodes with
the same # of children. randomly pick one of those nodes in the
second tree and crossover, or repick a node in the first of a
different depth |
| 16:36.14 |
poolio |
|12:31| <
poolio> I guess the former is much better |
| 16:36.15 |
poolio |
|12:32| �
gut_feeling <> changes nick to feral_feeling |
| 16:36.18 |
poolio |
eeek |
| 16:36.19 |
poolio |
sorry |
| 16:40.43 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:40.57 |
``Erik |
brlcad, would
you mind culling some naughty rogue processes on your
desktop? |
| 16:41.11 |
``Erik |
they're
beating up my po' server |
| 16:48.39 |
brlcad |
poolio: yeah,
something like that |
| 16:49.02 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
which? |
| 16:49.15 |
``Erik |
um, firefox
finds, you have 3 of them punishing nfs |
| 16:49.31 |
``Erik |
and a slew of
local log rotate scripts grinding |
| 16:49.32 |
brlcad |
er, firefox
isn't even running |
| 16:49.39 |
``Erik |
... scripts
looking for firefox |
| 16:49.50 |
``Erik |
that are
fucktarded and wander into nfs land |
| 16:49.59 |
brlcad |
ooh, that's
someone else's doing |
| 16:50.03 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 16:50.09 |
brlcad |
yeah, kill
em |
| 16:50.19 |
``Erik |
but it's your
box, so I didn't wanna go shotgunning without at least talkin' to
ya |
| 16:50.26 |
brlcad |
yeah
thx |
| 16:51.16 |
``Erik |
bahhhh, I'm
not in wheel |
| 17:01.44 |
brlcad |
i killed
them |
| 17:01.44 |
``Erik |
thanks |
| 17:01.45 |
poolio |
brlcad:
murderer! |
| 17:02.38 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593523.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:04.08 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/oMXfGH20.html
<--- are you interested in this one? |
| 17:13.26 |
IriX64 |
btw libXft
*needs to be used. |
| 17:15.59 |
IriX64 |
doesn't solve
my ogl problems though, but i'll keep looking |
| 17:18.36 |
IriX64 |
hey did
anybody try my young friends hex.c? |
| 17:24.27 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/8RMmsj90.html
<--- deja-vu, this ones in remrt |
| 17:25.25 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
using !!variable a bad practice? |
| 17:34.23 |
``Erik |
heh, not the
most readable :) |
| 17:35.31 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 17:37.03 |
IriX64 |
they both
seem quite happy linking against libbu with thier bu_bomb routines
commented out |
| 17:45.56 |
IriX64 |
har asc2g is
running |
| 17:49.38 |
poolio |
isn't asc2g
deprecated anyway? |
| 17:49.50 |
IriX64 |
its part of
the compile |
| 17:49.56 |
IriX64 |
last
part |
| 17:50.21 |
IriX64 |
to give you
example geometry databases to play with |
| 17:52.56 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/hex.c
<-- threaded bolt maker |
| 17:55.01 |
IriX64 |
my sons
friend did that, they compete, I think Jamie won that round
:) |
| 17:58.33 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 17:58.58 |
``Erik |
why would
asc2g be deprecated? it converts between the db's ascii and binary
forms... |
| 18:00.42 |
``Erik |
heh,
neat |
| 18:01.13 |
``Erik |
sign issues
out the wazoo during compile |
| 18:01.45 |
``Erik |
sprintf() is
generally considered poor form, can lead to overruns... snprintf is
generally preferred |
| 18:02.12 |
poolio |
not
deprecated, but no longer needed or something. like in the comments
it said that it was no longer needed to move over databases or
something. oh well. |
| 18:03.20 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad-7.10.1
your code running :) |
| 18:03.50 |
IriX64 |
roses need
watering ill be back in a bit :) |
| 18:14.24 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: removed unnecessary
blank lines |
| 18:19.43 |
IriX64 |
same url
/framebuffer.jpg |
| 18:21.50 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 18:31.07 |
IriX64 |
same url
/guimode.jpg and now i'm taking a break, afk for a
bit |
| 18:54.41 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726476.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:51.20 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to john p. williams for
adding support for vrml2 to g-vrml |
| 19:52.42 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: durfee's middle name was
edward |
| 19:54.55 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to bob strausser for
his contributions to patch-g in '93 |
| 19:56.20 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: consistency with SURVICE
case |
| 19:57.49 |
``Erik |
was or is?
O.o |
| 19:57.53 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (49 files in 49 dirs): de-recurse this
bit of the build tree |
| 20:03.30 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: omg, I apparently missed nirt's
infamous author. credit natalie eberius for her work on nirt which
according to cvs was circa 1990. |
| 20:06.00 |
*** join/#brlcad ak__
(n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) |
| 20:16.05 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: credit Douglas P. Kingston III for his
work really early on (circa '81) on libfb paged io, as well as work
on dbcp, loop, op-bw, and more. don't know his exact affiliation
yet |
| 20:19.02 |
Maloeran |
Adding
credits for work performed 26 years ago? That's... interesting
:) |
| 20:21.16 |
``Erik |
code
archeology, heh |
| 20:23.19 |
``Erik |
apparently,
he was on acst t some point |
| 20:23.23 |
``Erik |
http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/misc/tcp_ip/8702.mm.www/0175.html |
| 20:24.11 |
``Erik |
(assuming
that's the same Douglas P. Kingston III) |
| 20:26.04 |
Maloeran |
III is
unusual as a family name |
| 20:26.22 |
``Erik |
um, it's not,
kingston is... he's the third... |
| 20:27.03 |
Maloeran |
I have never
seen such a family name. I heard about the 2.0 suffix to a child's
name though |
| 20:55.01 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680011.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:01.03 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
seriously, you haven't? |
| 21:01.59 |
brlcad |
I mean, Pope
John Paul II .. King Henry IV .. Queen Elizabeth II ... |
| 21:03.39 |
brlcad |
there are
famous names through the centuries like that, aside from just
general use |
| 21:05.49 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/SrnFp444.html
<--- this is with opengl enabled |
| 21:07.16 |
``Erik |
<-- hoping
that mal is being facetious |
| 21:08.51 |
IriX64 |
glx define
didn't get set |
| 21:09.09 |
``Erik |
glX is for X,
yours should use wgl |
| 21:09.36 |
IriX64 |
err if i have
glx it should find it, 7.8.4 did |
| 21:11.10 |
IriX64 |
sorry i
intruded on your conversation |
| 21:12.36 |
Maloeran |
Sure brlcad,
but these are more titles than names, I didn't expect to see that
outside archaic institutions |
| 21:12.37 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-085-114.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:13.14 |
IriX64 |
elite01:
count what you have lost and lose no more :) |
| 21:13.32 |
elite01 |
hehe
:) |
| 21:13.40 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 21:13.50 |
elite01 |
nah, i don't
quit to show-off my ubercool quit messages |
| 21:14.08 |
IriX64 |
i know that
but i couldn't resist |
| 21:14.11 |
elite01 |
i dunno xchat
just somehow went away - i must've slipped a row or so on this
crappy laptop keyboard |
| 21:14.44 |
IriX64 |
tried
building xchat from source, several issues i have to look at.....
later |
| 21:15.09 |
elite01 |
no idea why
one would want to build it from source |
| 21:15.22 |
IriX64 |
for the heck
of it :) |
| 21:15.26 |
elite01 |
i see
:) |
| 21:15.48 |
IriX64 |
i like bitchx
too |
| 21:16.20 |
elite01 |
i used it
once to ask why my x server wouldn't start :D |
| 21:17.24 |
IriX64 |
you like
gui's then, i mix command line with gui |
| 21:17.30 |
elite01 |
otherwise,
i'm quite loyal to xchat |
| 21:17.41 |
IriX64 |
i hop
around |
| 21:18.48 |
elite01 |
hmm yes i'm
more or less a gui guy |
| 21:19.12 |
elite01 |
never
bothered to learn using vi or emacs or something like
that |
| 21:19.23 |
elite01 |
i rather use
gedit or even something like netbeans |
| 21:19.49 |
IriX64 |
i use tedit
and e ;) |
| 21:20.19 |
IriX64 |
err
epm |
| 21:20.34 |
elite01 |
don't know
them |
| 21:20.44 |
IriX64 |
os/2
stuff |
| 21:20.48 |
elite01 |
oh |
| 21:20.53 |
elite01 |
i master most
of nano :) |
| 21:21.14 |
IriX64 |
tried nano
quite good but jove is good too |
| 21:21.41 |
IriX64 |
jove runs on
my system :) |
| 21:21.58 |
elite01 |
amazing
:) |
| 21:22.06 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 21:48.28 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 22:06.16 |
IriX64 |
elite01:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jove.jpg |
| 22:07.03 |
elite01 |
looks...
plain |
| 22:07.16 |
IriX64 |
is it
supposed to be fancy |
| 22:10.05 |
elite01 |
http://bayimg.com/EAEdFaabj
that's fancy :) |
| 22:11.10 |
IriX64 |
sure as heck
is :) |
| 22:11.24 |
IriX64 |
how do you
keep track of all the buttons :) |
| 22:12.16 |
elite01 |
hehe |
| 22:14.26 |
elite01 |
just look at
http://bayimg.com/eaEDkAABJ |
| 22:14.33 |
elite01 |
*that*'s
buttons :P |
| 22:14.47 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r208 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCEvents.h
src/irClientEvents.cpp): |
| 22:14.47 |
CIA-29 |
libirc: add
an event at the end of the connection cycle ( end of MOTD
) |
| 22:14.47 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
eIRCConnectedEvent |
| 22:14.47 |
CIA-29 |
libirc: so
that clients know when they can start joining channels and
sending |
| 22:14.47 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
messages and stuff. |
| 22:15.55 |
IriX64 |
a coding
editor? (can't make out the text) |
| 22:16.17 |
elite01 |
click the
image |
| 22:16.49 |
elite01 |
the
refactoring stuff is amazing |
| 22:18.12 |
IriX64 |
you're a java
developer? |
| 22:18.40 |
elite01 |
from time
to... time |
| 22:18.56 |
IriX64 |
beans is your
effort? if so kudos |
| 22:19.18 |
IriX64 |
gui
programmer sweet |
| 22:19.44 |
elite01 |
no, i didn't
collaborate to netbeans |
| 22:20.28 |
IriX64 |
high class
stuff, i admit i'm outclassed here :) |
| 22:21.06 |
elite01 |
nah, it just
looks ugly :) |
| 22:22.26 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r209 10/trunk/libirc/ (7 files in 4 dirs): it's
IRCTextUtils not TextUtils. set it straight everywheres |
| 22:23.34 |
IriX64 |
elite01: same
url turboc.jpg, thats more my speed :) |
| 22:23.35 |
elite01 |
still, i
believe netbeans is one of the best ides out there - a pleasure to
use |
| 22:24.08 |
IriX64 |
ive never
tried it, never heard of it till you brought it up, says something
about me |
| 22:24.27 |
elite01 |
at least you
don't need a gig of ram to run it |
| 22:24.34 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 22:26.09 |
IriX64 |
did you think
jove is mine? |
| 22:26.26 |
IriX64 |
it's part of
brlcad |
| 22:26.39 |
elite01 |
hmm didn't
think of it being yours or not |
| 22:26.41 |
elite01 |
it
is? |
| 22:26.45 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 22:27.10 |
elite01 |
oh,
nice |
| 22:27.32 |
IriX64 |
the nice part
is the rest of brlcad |
| 22:27.50 |
elite01 |
hehe |
| 22:27.57 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:28.07 |
elite01 |
i don't
master brlcad yet |
| 22:28.36 |
IriX64 |
me either,
it's tough |
| 22:28.36 |
IriX64 |
but i'm told
well worth the effort |
| 22:28.36 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r210 10/trunk/libirc/include/TCPConnection.h: put the
candle back |
| 22:28.47 |
IriX64 |
have you seen
the stryker shot |
| 22:29.02 |
elite01 |
hmm
dunno |
| 22:29.04 |
IriX64 |
http://brlcad.org images and
screenshots |
| 22:29.08 |
elite01 |
i saw some
helicopter |
| 22:29.18 |
IriX64 |
no not the
copter |
| 22:29.27 |
elite01 |
that one? of
course :) |
| 22:29.35 |
elite01 |
it sure is an
eyecatcher |
| 22:30.08 |
IriX64 |
you miss the
point that vehiclee was build from the brlcad work |
| 22:30.22 |
elite01 |
the most...
"ugly" programs are often the best :) |
| 22:30.29 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:30.40 |
elite01 |
hm? what do
you mean by that? |
| 22:31.03 |
IriX64 |
some consider
a program ugly some find it quite nice |
| 22:31.33 |
elite01 |
well, it's
how they look, how comfortable it is to use and how quickly
experienced people get stuff done |
| 22:32.02 |
IriX64 |
true but
there's always a learning curve, sometimes steep |
| 22:32.24 |
elite01 |
yes |
| 22:33.43 |
*** join/#brlcad SuperTaz
(n=taz@adsl-69-210-240-223.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:33.43 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work
(n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:33.43 |
*** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:33.43 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:34.03 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
that's actually part of their name, not just a title
... |
| 22:34.14 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 22:34.14 |
brlcad |
that's a
tradition that goes *way* back .. |
| 22:34.40 |
brlcad |
if you give
your kid the same name as their parent, they become a II, or a
III |
| 22:34.42 |
brlcad |
etc |
| 22:35.09 |
dtidrow_work |
well, II
usually equals Jr. |
| 22:35.35 |
IriX64 |
brlcad:
defineing that glx define allowed it to build
completely |
| 22:35.52 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 22:38.48 |
``Erik |
napoleon
XIV |
| 22:54.49 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03dtremenak * r211 10/trunk/libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp:
map.erase() doesn't return anything on gcc |
| 23:08.10 |
louipc |
jove is
actually a UofT app :P |
| 23:11.00 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03l4m3rthanyou * r212 10/trunk/libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: Woo,
couple more itr fixes |
| 23:12.14 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r213 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: libIRC has a build system
now, and is not "all ugly" so take that out of the todo |
| 23:12.50 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 23:13.01 |
``Erik |
libIRC rises
from the grave? |
| 23:43.51 |
brlcad |
rumors of
it's demise are greatly exaggerated |
| 23:44.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:47.58 |
dtidrow |
"Can't load
IA 32-bit .so on a IA 32-bit platform" - totally whacked Java JNI
error |
| 23:48.21 |
dtidrow |
totally
useless, and totally misleading |
| 23:50.07 |
dtidrow |
I had to
downgrade the Java version to 1.5.0_07 to find the real problem:
"undefined symbol:
_ZN16GLRefreshVisitor5applyERN3osg7TextureE" |
| 23:50.36 |
dtidrow |
insane.... |
| 23:51.20 |
dtidrow |
at least I
can go home now that I've fixed the _real_ problem |
| 23:53.02 |
brlcad |
fun
fun |
| 23:53.39 |
brlcad |
hey, dtidrow
.. here's a question for you.. is there a way to jni load a library
that has (unused) unresolved symbols? |
| 23:54.08 |
brlcad |
stuff that ld
has no trouble whatsoever using, you can dlopen just fine, but jni
loader chokes |
| 23:54.33 |
brlcad |
usually
another lib that the library uses |
| 23:55.04 |
dtidrow |
not sure,
though I think there are some commandline arguments you can use to
direct the jvm to the right libs |
| 23:55.16 |
dtidrow |
as well as
LD_LIBRARY_PATH, of coures |
| 23:56.06 |
brlcad |
yeah, it
ignores the ld_lib_path |
| 23:56.30 |
dtidrow |
it shouldn't,
afaik |
| 23:56.33 |
brlcad |
or at least
doesn't know how/where to find the lib to resolve it |
| 23:56.52 |
brlcad |
(even though
the .so does say how/where) |
| 23:57.08 |
brlcad |
otherwise
even dlopen would die on some symbols |
| 23:57.56 |
dtidrow |
yeah - if
dlopen works, the jvm should have no problem either |
| 23:58.27 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
what's been a pita |
| 23:58.50 |
brlcad |
dlopen is
fine |
| 23:59.10 |
brlcad |
I've had to
make fully resolved libraries (i.e. mega libraries!) that has the
dependencies all included |
| 23:59.11 |
dtidrow |
afaik, the
"System.loadLibrary( lib );" is just a wrapper around
dlopen |
| 23:59.24 |
brlcad |
even stupid
things like tcl/tk (which makes for a huge .so) |
| 23:59.47 |
dtidrow |
what was the
lib name that you passed in to System.loadLibrary()? |
| 00:09.54 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 00:50.51 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: sounds good, I can take a
look at it as well (though I'll be working on ldap
first) |
| 04:26.00 |
poolio |
brlcad: hmmm
I want to port my code to scheme 8) |
| 04:26.21 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 04:26.28 |
brlcad |
you been
talking to ``Erik or something |
| 04:27.07 |
poolio |
naw. I've
just been meaning to learn scheme and ran through the first bit of
SICP and it looks enticing |
| 04:27.41 |
poolio |
ent.hispeed.ch� |
| 04:27.42 |
poolio |
|20:11| �
yukonbob ��>
�n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net� |
| 04:27.42 |
poolio |
|20:52| <@
brlcad> MinuteElectron: sounds good, I can take a look at it
as well (though I'll be working on ldap first) |
| 04:27.45 |
poolio |
Day changed
to 28 Jul 2007 |
| 04:27.48 |
poolio |
christ |
| 04:27.57 |
poolio |
i need to fix
my synaptics driver |
| 04:29.58 |
poolio |
okee, fixed
:D |
| 04:49.45 |
yukonbob |
poolio: what
code do you want to port to scheme? |
| 04:56.52 |
brlcad |
his genetic
algorithm code |
| 04:56.56 |
brlcad |
beset |
| 05:03.50 |
yukonbob |
hey brlcad
;) |
| 05:04.26 |
brlcad |
howdy
bob |
| 05:04.28 |
yukonbob |
interesting
timing, cause I've been thinking of getting into scheme for some
time too, and finally made a project for myself to play with
it... |
| 05:05.10 |
yukonbob |
interfacing
guile w/ silc lib... and that made me think of guile bindings for
brlcad ;) |
| 05:05.26 |
brlcad |
swig bindings
would be better |
| 05:05.32 |
brlcad |
then you'd
get guile for free |
| 05:05.57 |
yukonbob |
there you go
-- swig is on my list of things to learn more about... |
| 05:06.12 |
yukonbob |
how's it
going sean? |
| 05:10.05 |
brlcad |
pretty
good |
| 05:10.22 |
brlcad |
almost time
to get ready for siggraph in a week |
| 05:10.27 |
yukonbob |
!nice |
| 05:10.34 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: inform the T2 package maintainer of
linux releases |
| 05:10.41 |
yukonbob |
how long is
that event? |
| 05:10.47 |
brlcad |
trying to get
a new release out as well as finish up another code event
beforehand |
| 05:10.52 |
brlcad |
it's about a
week |
| 05:11.34 |
yukonbob |
how
integrated is the in-memory format <--> renderer |
| 05:11.51 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean? |
| 05:11.55 |
yukonbob |
ie: how tough
would it be to use povray (for example) to render brlcad
scene. |
| 05:13.24 |
brlcad |
wouldn't be
too hard, but easiest would be to write a g-pov geometry
exporter |
| 05:13.31 |
brlcad |
povray's
format is pretty straightforward |
| 05:13.39 |
yukonbob |
or the
renderer that ships w/ blender, or any arbitrary
renderer... |
| 05:13.45 |
brlcad |
it'd be one
of the easiest exporters to write |
| 05:13.50 |
yukonbob |
cool. |
| 05:14.00 |
brlcad |
likewise for
an importer |
| 05:14.21 |
brlcad |
povray
actually has loads of good overlap with our format as they also
support CSG |
| 05:14.30 |
brlcad |
and implicit
primitives |
| 05:15.00 |
brlcad |
the only
difference would be dealing with non-solid geometry (povray will
render non-solid, brl-cad does not) |
| 05:15.33 |
yukonbob |
right, pov
ray generates shells, basically, iirc. |
| 05:15.40 |
brlcad |
need explicit
format geometry to do most of the cel rendering
techniques |
| 05:15.51 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
something like rtedge is in that direction |
| 05:16.43 |
yukonbob |
I was playing
w/ rtedge other week, and it was generating lots of horizontal
artifacts (ie: horizontal lines sweeping off the curves)... is that
typical? |
| 05:16.58 |
brlcad |
those povray
shells could probably come in as nmg geometry, or even plate mode
bots (which allows for thin-surfaces) |
| 05:17.50 |
brlcad |
no, that's
not -- that was a bug in a particular version, if it's what I'm
thinking you saw |
| 05:17.54 |
yukonbob |
you've lost
me there brlcad, but no matter... I've still got dem conversion and
docbook before I get involved with anything like
renderers... |
| 05:17.57 |
brlcad |
should be
fixed |
| 05:18.41 |
brlcad |
ahh
:) |
| 05:18.55 |
brlcad |
hopefully 8.5
final isn't too far away |
| 05:19.09 |
yukonbob |
gotta be Real
Soon Now(tm) |
| 05:19.15 |
brlcad |
that was part
of the premise of moving to it, though need for critcial features
too |
| 05:19.41 |
yukonbob |
oh, it'll all
work out for certain... it's just a goofy transition
atm |
| 05:19.49 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 05:19.59 |
brlcad |
first time
we've ever had/needed to |
| 05:20.27 |
brlcad |
usually way
more cautious/hesitant on the upgrades |
| 05:21.44 |
brlcad |
if you get to
the point of needing commit access, just let me know |
| 05:22.31 |
brlcad |
the door is
fairly open to new devs so long as I can continue to review all
commits with enough diligence |
| 05:22.45 |
yukonbob |
will do --
soon, hopefully, I'll be able to dedicate some more contiguous
chunks of time... |
| 05:23.24 |
yukonbob |
brlcad is
still managed by cvs, no? |
| 05:24.24 |
brlcad |
that will be
changed before the year's end, but yes |
| 05:25.14 |
yukonbob |
is there
anonymous checkout avail? |
| 05:25.15 |
brlcad |
yeah, still
on cvs for the time being |
| 05:25.18 |
brlcad |
~cadcvs |
| 05:25.18 |
ibot |
To obtain
BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
&& cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
checkout -P brlcad |
| 05:25.32 |
yukonbob |
nice |
| 05:28.42 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: you a
schemer/lisper? |
| 05:28.59 |
brlcad |
I've written
some lisp over the years |
| 05:32.49 |
brlcad |
these days,
alas mostly limited to emacs snippets but it's good enough to
satisfy the itch |
| 05:33.14 |
brlcad |
for a long
while, I've wanted to have a BRL-CAD major mode for .g files that
lets you browse the geometry contents (ala tar mode) |
| 05:45.30 |
yukonbob |
sigraph
starts next week (monday)? |
| 05:45.56 |
yukonbob |
*siggraph |
| 05:46.06 |
poolio |
brlcad: when
are you gone? |
| 05:50.34 |
yukonbob |
ahh ---
6-9Aug |
| 05:51.38 |
brlcad |
starts on
sat/sun next week |
| 05:51.49 |
poolio |
eek |
| 05:51.50 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/.cvsignore
tk/unix/.cvsignore): ignore tcl/tk lib products |
| 05:52.15 |
brlcad |
poolio: yeah,
eek :) |
| 05:52.45 |
poolio |
brlcad: I was
hoping to be done work before the 10th :\ |
| 05:52.56 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: are
you looking forward to anything in particular when you
attend? |
| 05:53.06 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yeah, the whole thing :) |
| 05:53.12 |
yukonbob |
lol |
| 05:53.13 |
brlcad |
siggraph is a
great conference |
| 05:53.22 |
brlcad |
so much to
see and do, it's really "big" |
| 05:53.33 |
poolio |
any booth
babes like at E3? |
| 05:53.38 |
poolio |
*they used to
have at E3 |
| 05:53.52 |
brlcad |
once the expo
starts, yeah some :) |
| 05:54.16 |
brlcad |
though the
expo is only during the latter half, and not nearly as crazy
booth-babe-wise as E3 |
| 05:55.23 |
brlcad |
a great
balance of deeply technical content with artistic taste and
entertainment |
| 05:55.36 |
poolio |
cool. I'm
jealous |
| 06:00.52 |
yukonbob |
bring us back
T-shirts: "My friend went to siggraph 2007 and all I got was this
lousey t-shirt" |
| 06:07.47 |
brlcad |
I get a shirt
every year :) |
| 07:03.56 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: .htaccess are
re-enabled |
| 07:15.37 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c
population.c fitness.h population.h): fitness function should be
working, so selection must be broken |
| 07:17.36 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc_
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754591.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:18.19 |
poolio |
brlcad:
errrr |
| 07:18.26 |
poolio |
http://poolio.org/files/bad_convergence.png |
| 07:19.18 |
poolio |
but I must
sleep, I probably won't be around til late tomorrow |
| 07:19.26 |
poolio |
good
night/mornin' |
| 08:48.19 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-231-247.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:06.53 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.91.113.199) |
| 11:27.43 |
*** join/#brlcad andy__
(n=andy@82-43-116-127.cable.ubr01.mort.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:28.13 |
andy__ |
Hello |
| 11:45.14 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 12:53.51 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Will
sort everything out in 1 or 3 weeks time. |
| 14:58.36 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:03.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 15:14.30 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-231-247.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:39.45 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-073-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:04.14 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-231-247.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:07.47 |
Maloeran |
This is a
strange question, but... does someone know how video playback in
mplayer can take only 0.1% of one processor core? Can it really be
that Nvidia drivers provide hardware mpeg4/xvid decoding? I can't
really see any other explanation |
| 20:11.23 |
``Erik |
um, given
that mpeg (and jpeg) are based on breaking small areas (like 8x8)
into simple regions with parametric systems (like, 16 different
variants, iirc) |
| 20:11.55 |
``Erik |
I think it'd
be totally possible to make a very simple ogl accelerlated
mpeg/jpeg display using 16 textures and gauroud shading for the
color aspect... |
| 20:12.19 |
Maloeran |
As far as I
know, Xv provides hardware color space conversion and scaling,
there's no decoding involved |
| 20:12.30 |
``Erik |
Xv !=
GL |
| 20:12.41 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 20:12.53 |
Maloeran |
Indeed, but
I'm looking at mplayer using 0.1% of one core just using the Xv
driver |
| 20:12.57 |
``Erik |
at one point,
I was going to write an ogl mpeg decoder, but *shrug* |
| 20:13.04 |
``Erik |
fast cpu's, I
guess? |
| 20:13.14 |
``Erik |
mpeg is a
pretty simple format |
| 20:13.17 |
Maloeran |
While I'm
told that Mark has trouble playing back high-definition videos on
his dual-core laptop |
| 20:13.35 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:13.59 |
``Erik |
winderz has
trouble doing something simple like, y'know, booting |
| 20:14.00 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 20:14.01 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:14.19 |
Maloeran |
:)
Meh |
| 20:14.36 |
Maloeran |
I gave him
1024x768 videos, about 1mb per second of compressed data, and he
says it's jerky |
| 20:14.52 |
Maloeran |
And mplayer
doesn't get above 0.1% of cpu use when decoding here, I really
don't get it |
| 20:15.01 |
``Erik |
mebbe the
codec is the biggie? |
| 20:15.28 |
Maloeran |
I used the
msmpegv4 codec on purpose, the Microsoft variant of
mpeg4 |
| 20:15.30 |
``Erik |
I would
suspect that standardized codecs would be disadvantaged on winderz,
while ms codecs would groove right along |
| 20:15.35 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:15.43 |
Maloeran |
So that
windows users can play the video without having to install
codecs |
| 20:15.56 |
``Erik |
is that the
usual form for .avi files? |
| 20:16.17 |
Maloeran |
It's a common
codec for .avi files, yes |
| 20:16.32 |
``Erik |
tell mark to
quit running all those viruses and porn shit? :D |
| 20:16.45 |
Maloeran |
I sent him
high quality x264 videos and such long ago and he never managed to
play them |
| 20:16.47 |
``Erik |
is he using
like a p166 laptop? O.o |
| 20:16.57 |
Maloeran |
A Core 2 Duo
laptop |
| 20:17.09 |
``Erik |
erm, so a
mac, not winderz? |
| 20:17.15 |
Maloeran |
Oh, it's
windows |
| 20:17.25 |
``Erik |
those use
core duo's now? heh |
| 20:17.34 |
Maloeran |
He also has
Linux installed although he doesn't know how to use it |
| 20:17.45 |
``Erik |
pointy
hairs |
| 20:18.00 |
Maloeran |
Anyhow, I'm a
bit annoyed because I have no idea how to fix that
"problem" |
| 20:18.16 |
Maloeran |
I don't
suppose you have any thoughts? |
| 20:18.21 |
``Erik |
ask him to
use a slightly less inferior machine? hehehhe |
| 20:18.37 |
``Erik |
I'd suspect
he has other processes gobbling cpu at the same time |
| 20:18.40 |
Maloeran |
It's a good
machine, I have seen it. I have no idea where the slowness comes
from |
| 20:18.48 |
``Erik |
so the
winderz 'process manager' might provide clues |
| 20:19.01 |
``Erik |
<-- has no
simple 'quick fix' |
| 20:19.43 |
``Erik |
probably
outlook or word running some ugly macro, heh |
| 20:19.55 |
Maloeran |
msmpeg4-v2
decoding, very simple stuff, just 1024x768 at 20 frames per second,
1mb of compressed data to read per second... I'm sure I could run
that on my amd-k6! |
| 20:20.31 |
Maloeran |
Mmmhm,
carbohydrates |
| 20:20.48 |
``Erik |
'cept
smothered in shredded bacon and cheese and sour cream,
heh |
| 20:20.48 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 20:20.50 |
``Erik |
mmm,
fat. |
| 20:20.58 |
Maloeran |
Oh.
:) |
| 20:21.37 |
Maloeran |
Is it
possible that windows wouldn't have video drivers installed and use
Vesa or something? I thought they had passed that stage |
| 20:22.11 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps the
machine has trouble pushing 60mb of data to video memory per second
*shivers* |
| 20:22.21 |
louipc |
that's
unfortunate |
| 20:25.02 |
Maloeran |
Okay, it's
confirmed, the video plays smoothly on an AMD-k6 333mhz with
windows 98. But not a manager's Core 2 Duo laptop |
| 20:25.15 |
Maloeran |
not on*
a |
| 20:26.04 |
louipc |
no
way! |
| 20:26.15 |
Maloeran |
As I said, I
don't understand it either |
| 20:26.21 |
louipc |
Vista?
hehhe |
| 20:26.35 |
``Erik |
um, perhaps
the driver cofnig is all effed up and he's doing it all
sw? |
| 20:26.37 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 20:26.41 |
``Erik |
with
multi-copy buffers? |
| 20:26.43 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 20:26.59 |
``Erik |
or perhaps
the machine figured out the operator has pointy hair and is being
mean? :D |
| 20:27.15 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/m1a2.avi
- Here's the video if anyone happens to be on windows |
| 20:27.29 |
Maloeran |
Eheh Erik, I
like that hypothesis :) |
| 20:28.43 |
louipc |
how about if
I'm in Linux? |
| 20:29.24 |
Maloeran |
It should
play very smoothly as far as I can see, 0.1% of cpu use
here |
| 20:32.30 |
louipc |
~30% for me
but I have an old machine |
| 20:36.15 |
``Erik |
played
without noticable cpu utilization usin gVLC here, on a powerbook
pro 2.0 |
| 20:36.30 |
``Erik |
with 'world
of warcraft' running, to boot... |
| 20:36.39 |
louipc |
hah |
| 20:36.47 |
``Erik |
two
processessors, 3 lights, first hit? |
| 20:36.49 |
Maloeran |
I really
wonder how the video decoding can be so cheap, it's puzzling
me |
| 20:37.07 |
louipc |
mine's a
866MHz PIII |
| 20:37.14 |
Maloeran |
That's
correct. The two processors got 4 cores each though |
| 20:37.27 |
``Erik |
ah, so that's
an 8 cor epass to push that 20 fps |
| 20:37.42 |
``Erik |
and I was
about to be impressed :> |
| 20:37.59 |
Maloeran |
I'm sorry I
wasn't up to the task :) |
| 20:38.30 |
``Erik |
20 fps at
that rez on even 8 cores is not trivial |
| 20:38.41 |
louipc |
not quite a
regular desktop |
| 20:38.43 |
``Erik |
imagine
running 1/10 the tirangles, like an ogl came |
| 20:38.45 |
``Erik |
game |
| 20:39.01 |
``Erik |
(that's the
shell m1 from the cinema site, right?) |
| 20:39.19 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's the
same M1 model Justin gave me about two years ago |
| 20:39.27 |
``Erik |
probably NOT
the best model to be showing around, btw, I think it's a limited
distribution dealie |
| 20:39.49 |
``Erik |
yanking the
havoc or hilux might be safer :) |
| 20:39.50 |
Maloeran |
Hum. I was
told I could "show" it around, but not distribute it |
| 20:39.59 |
Maloeran |
Where can I
get these? |
| 20:40.00 |
``Erik |
by
justin... |
| 20:40.21 |
``Erik |
I surspect
that he was techinically funding when he 'distributed' it to
you |
| 20:40.32 |
``Erik |
havoc is in
the brlcad repo, unencumbered |
| 20:41.01 |
``Erik |
I believe the
hilux has been approved for unencumbered distribution, but hasn't
actually been shoved in the repo yet... video of it should be no
issue, though |
| 20:41.13 |
``Erik |
given
subcontractor relation |
| 20:41.47 |
Maloeran |
Thanks, I'll
have a look at the Havoc |
| 20:43.25 |
Maloeran |
Oh. Video
decoding uses XvMC, for which there are Nvidia drivers for hardware
decoding. Neat stuff |
| 20:44.13 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:44.18 |
``Erik |
cool |
| 20:46.07 |
Maloeran |
Eh yes, looks
like it has already beenn done |
| 20:46.55 |
``Erik |
hum, that
page is all like 6 years old |
| 20:47.52 |
``Erik |
in fact, that
first item is implemented in gtk1.2 |
| 20:48.14 |
``Erik |
and goes back
to gtk 0.30 |
| 20:48.17 |
``Erik |
iirc |
| 20:48.28 |
``Erik |
'96ish |
| 20:48.31 |
``Erik |
mebbe
'97 |
| 20:49.12 |
``Erik |
the salt and
cheese on those taters are so making me want more salt and cheese
!#~! O.o grar. |
| 20:50.02 |
Maloeran |
Mmhm :). I'm
just curious, you kept your university user so many years after you
left? |
| 20:50.16 |
``Erik |
heh,
anti-kosher... pig mixed with cheese, sheesh |
| 20:50.23 |
Maloeran |
As I assume
math.missouristate.edu is where you once stsudied |
| 20:50.25 |
Maloeran |
studied,
too |
| 20:50.44 |
``Erik |
yes, when at
the uni, I volunteered tutoring to a professor in the math dept,
and still aid him in trickier sysadmin duties |
| 20:50.54 |
Maloeran |
http://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=MILITARY/&name=Y4937_Biotank
- That is one mean looking tank |
| 20:50.57 |
``Erik |
in return, I
have an account as long as te dept has a machine |
| 20:51.23 |
Maloeran |
Nice |
| 20:51.35 |
``Erik |
same guy who
gave me the 2 hour crash course in omfg real
quaternions |
| 20:51.49 |
``Erik |
which is why
I have a slightly different view of them than your typical ogl
coder |
| 20:52.26 |
``Erik |
um, I MIGHT
be able to get you some other models, like a real t62 (with
guts) |
| 20:52.32 |
``Erik |
I'll have to
talk to people, though |
| 20:52.40 |
``Erik |
and it'd come
in BRL-CAD format |
| 20:53.00 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I
understood quaternions after staring at code using quats for 2
weeks in high school, and just playing with the numbers a lot. It's
not a typical approach |
| 20:53.13 |
Maloeran |
It's fine, I
got a g2rtgg converter |
| 20:53.38 |
``Erik |
I kinda got a
rough overview of a coders view of quats... then went to the prof
and got the mathematical background, so a lot of the weird coder
shit became obvious |
| 20:53.54 |
``Erik |
like groking
that it's 3 imaginary orthogenal axis with a real
scalar |
| 20:54.11 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I got
that part. I have very little mathematical background |
| 20:54.34 |
Maloeran |
"A proof?
What's that? Meh, just write the code to test 1 billion cases over
the night." |
| 20:55.06 |
``Erik |
ah, but a
proof isn't worth 1billion tests, it's worth infinity
tests |
| 20:55.42 |
Maloeran |
Sure so, but
something can be "true enough" for me after 1 billion cases
:) |
| 20:55.46 |
``Erik |
program
provability is a skeery but awesome path in computer
science |
| 20:56.08 |
``Erik |
and the
difference is between "good enough" and "omfg right" |
| 20:56.20 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, well
put |
| 20:56.33 |
``Erik |
if you're
painting a display for a vidoe game or sim, whatever, but if
peoples lives are on the line, i'd rather have a provable
system |
| 20:56.37 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:57.07 |
Maloeran |
True. I'm
just definitely not a mathematician |
| 20:57.48 |
``Erik |
me, iether...
I'm just old, and becoming more and more concerned with 'critical'
software and the reprecussions of an oops |
| 20:58.08 |
Maloeran |
Many years
ago, I solved integrals by observing relations between solving
integrals by brute-force and the original equation. I didn't know
the background, I didn't even know what the word "integral" was or
meant, but it worked for me |
| 20:58.30 |
``Erik |
integrals are
trivial to brute force |
| 20:58.52 |
``Erik |
the notion of
"an area under a curve" is easily understnadable by just about
anyone |
| 20:58.53 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:59.00 |
Maloeran |
Sure, and I
used that to obtain the real integral, from which deductions can be
made to directly obtain any integral |
| 20:59.41 |
``Erik |
of course,
for some curves, you can only approximate given a statement of
range.. :) |
| 20:59.58 |
``Erik |
without
dropping to a base numerical solver |
| 21:00.34 |
Maloeran |
I'm still
very much biased towards "brute-forcing" my way through problems,
in order to find better solutions, rather than mathematically
proving anything |
| 21:00.47 |
``Erik |
<-- has a
fistful of solvers in haskell and scheme... |
| 21:00.50 |
louipc |
:( |
| 21:01.04 |
``Erik |
and my
solvers generally tend to be 2-5 lines of code and work faster than
the equivelant 3 pages of java or c++ |
| 21:01.08 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 21:02.21 |
Maloeran |
In a
programmer's world, maths are impure anyway, all numbers got
limited precision. True mathematial proofs can end up false when
applied |
| 21:02.36 |
``Erik |
not
true |
| 21:02.48 |
``Erik |
there are
mechanisms to deal with true numbers |
| 21:03.02 |
``Erik |
'scheme' does
it automatically, and for C, there are libraries such as
gpm |
| 21:03.24 |
``Erik |
the issue is
if you're willing to pay the cost for the accuracy |
| 21:03.28 |
``Erik |
and that's an
engineering decision :) |
| 21:04.41 |
Maloeran |
Are libraries
such as gpm strictly correct even with irrational
numbers? |
| 21:04.57 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.170.100) |
| 21:05.27 |
``Erik |
I believe
so... I think gpm deforms to an unlimited form when the ieee format
is insufficient |
| 21:05.41 |
``Erik |
so it's slow
and has teh ability to gobble buttloads of memory |
| 21:05.49 |
``Erik |
but will give
you omfg right values |
| 21:05.53 |
Maloeran |
Sure, but the
square root of 2.0 is never going to be exact unless you store it
sqrt(2) directly |
| 21:06.12 |
Maloeran |
Meaning the
complexity of your number becomes a long equation which is totally
impractical |
| 21:06.24 |
``Erik |
<-- unsure
of exactly how gpm handles that |
| 21:06.55 |
Maloeran |
I don't know
either, but I suspect that even gpm wouldn't be strictly "true"
mathematically speaking. True proofs can end up false |
| 21:07.13 |
``Erik |
be
interesting to explore that |
| 21:07.16 |
Maloeran |
http://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=MILITARY/&name=Y4937_Biotank
- Ah, I really like that model, it's just so ugly! I think I'll
send Mark a video of it |
| 21:07.42 |
``Erik |
is that the
same on you sent earlier? |
| 21:08.03 |
Maloeran |
Same url,
yes |
| 21:08.08 |
``Erik |
no one dues
fugly like the french *sigh* |
| 21:08.14 |
``Erik |
s/u/o/ |
| 21:09.06 |
``Erik |
germans may
have fat chicks with horns on their helmets, but the rench have...
that... |
| 21:09.06 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 21:09.08 |
Maloeran |
On the
battlefield, I would laugh if faced with such a vehicule. It could
be a terribly weapon |
| 21:09.17 |
Maloeran |
terrible* |
| 21:09.51 |
``Erik |
but I bet the
back of the vehicle is ok to look at... f it's french, that's the
part any opposing force would see... O:-) |
| 21:09.58 |
Maloeran |
I'm reaally
not finding where the M1 came from |
| 21:10.18 |
louipc |
wtf is that?
haha |
| 21:10.27 |
``Erik |
then it's
probably a model worth avoiding :( |
| 21:11.00 |
``Erik |
even though
it's legit and shit, ti could still cause issues when small minded
people make idiotic assumptions |
| 21:11.13 |
``Erik |
(like that no
non-US person could ever do any tech worth doing... a common but
WRONG view) |
| 21:11.43 |
Maloeran |
That's a...
common view? |
| 21:11.55 |
``Erik |
among small
minded people, yes |
| 21:12.11 |
``Erik |
I have no
other explaination for the fucktarded export laws in the
us |
| 21:13.47 |
Maloeran |
I'm still
amazed by how so many americans know little about the world out
there, it's a big planet |
| 21:13.59 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 21:14.12 |
``Erik |
I've talked
to equally ignorant people from many other countries, including
canuckia |
| 21:15.04 |
``Erik |
people around
toronot, sheesh |
| 21:15.06 |
``Erik |
all kinds of
special |
| 21:15.07 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 21:15.25 |
louipc |
:O |
| 21:15.44 |
Maloeran |
I think
there's just too much misplaced patriotism, heavily fed to the
population by the medias, it's kind of scary |
| 21:16.19 |
``Erik |
that's the
vocal minority, I hope |
| 21:16.31 |
Maloeran |
Patriotism
blinds people to the fact, it narrows their mind. It's socially
harmful, yet it's seen as a good thing down there |
| 21:17.25 |
Maloeran |
I hope so
too, Erik, I certainly do |
| 21:20.11 |
louipc |
there was an
issue with citizens of certain countries doing work on US
helicopters |
| 21:20.34 |
louipc |
where bell
helicopters had to lay them off, I think they were still canadian
citizens too |
| 21:22.03 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I
remember hearing about this. You once deported a canadian citizen
travelling to the states, an university professor, to Syria...
because he had dual-citizenship with Syria. That was
weird |
| 21:22.28 |
louipc |
rcmp tipped
off us authorities, mistakenly though |
| 21:24.16 |
Maloeran |
Erik or
anyone else, what would you recommend as way to find out the "top
level" region list to pass to db_walk_tree() to be able to read out
a model? |
| 21:24.35 |
``Erik |
'tops'? |
| 21:24.37 |
Maloeran |
I'm a bit
tired of having to look into the .g files for some kind of
appropriately named string |
| 21:24.48 |
``Erik |
mged -c
file.g tops |
| 21:24.51 |
Maloeran |
How would I
do it from code? |
| 21:25.06 |
Maloeran |
This is for
the g2rtgg extractor, which is based from Lee's code |
| 21:25.12 |
``Erik |
um, I don't
remember, heh, but the 'tops' command sould be fairly easy to
find |
| 21:25.27 |
``Erik |
I'd imagine
it's a variant of the 'ls' code |
| 21:26.52 |
``Erik |
an os unto
itself.. *cough* |
| 21:31.46 |
Maloeran |
Hum, I guess
I'll look into that. It's kind of annoying this task of having to
find the name of whatever you are looking for in the file, I wish I
could just say "all of it" |
| 21:33.04 |
``Erik |
the tops
command gives you the top level entities |
| 21:33.22 |
``Erik |
given those
and the ability to traverse recursively, you have 'all of
it' |
| 21:33.41 |
``Erik |
you'd have to
look into the specific implementation, though :) I dunno off teh
top of my head |
| 21:34.37 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I'm
trying to make sense of librt/wdb_obj.c |
| 21:40.41 |
Maloeran |
I'm not
actually finding any Bags Of Triangles in havoc.g, I guess the
geometry would have to be triangulated, somehow |
| 21:45.37 |
``Erik |
yeah, the nmg
routines |
| 22:10.17 |
tessier_ |
How does
brl-cad compare to something like autocad? |
| 22:10.39 |
tessier_ |
I am looking
for something to design model airplanes and do some solid
modeling. |
| 22:11.10 |
tessier_ |
Calculate
surface areas, make sure internal components fit, plot patterns for
gluing onto materials for cutting etc. |
| 22:13.22 |
louipc |
yeah I think
BRL-CAD is good for that sort of thing |
| 22:13.28 |
louipc |
not really
for drafting though |
| 22:13.35 |
``Erik |
not so much
plotting patterns |
| 22:13.41 |
``Erik |
but figurng
out if things fit, yeah... |
| 22:13.51 |
tessier_ |
Well, it can
print out a 2d diagram onto paper right? |
| 22:13.57 |
louipc |
not
really |
| 22:14.06 |
louipc |
(drafting) |
| 22:14.18 |
tessier_ |
hrm...how can
it do all these other things but not handle that? |
| 22:14.24 |
``Erik |
it's more an
analysis tool, not a building tool |
| 22:14.25 |
louipc |
no clue
haha |
| 22:15.36 |
``Erik |
the kinda
core intent is to have a good 'complete' model, pop a ray through
it and get a solid understanding of what that ray hits, the depth
of the hit, in and out normals, ... a 'segment list', so drafting
shtuff just ain't there |
| 22:16.24 |
``Erik |
(for the last
twenty or so years, every dollar has been thrown at figuring out
how bullets go through things, not anything construction
oriented... so it's weak in that area... feel free to improve it,
it's open source :D ) |
| 22:16.39 |
tessier_ |
So Linux
still has no good drafting tools? :( |
| 22:17.04 |
louipc |
tessier_:
qcad is what people use pretty much |
| 22:17.05 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: Yes
although full scale stuff is a possibility also. |
| 22:17.15 |
tessier_ |
louipc:
Funny. I used to host the qcad website. :) |
| 22:17.20 |
louipc |
if you're
familiar with autocad qcad is easy to pick up |
| 22:17.22 |
``Erik |
<-- cut
off a finger doing r/c, wants to get back into it... mebbe doing
ellectrics |
| 22:17.22 |
louipc |
hahah |
| 22:17.25 |
tessier_ |
But it has
always seemed like a toy to me. But that was years ago. I should
check it out again. |
| 22:17.28 |
tessier_ |
``Erik:
Electrics rock now. |
| 22:17.34 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/finger/ |
| 22:17.37 |
``Erik |
so I've
heard |
| 22:17.45 |
tessier_ |
louipc: In
fact, I convinced the qcad author to go GPL. But in 95 or
so. |
| 22:17.56 |
louipc |
yeah I'm not
so much a fan but, it works I guess |
| 22:18.02 |
``Erik |
one of my
buddies, the guy who did the oepnnurbs shtuff (jlowenz) is into
electrics... |
| 22:18.04 |
tessier_ |
Can I import
things from qcad to brl-cad in any way? |
| 22:18.09 |
louipc |
dxf |
| 22:18.22 |
``Erik |
2d things in
dxf don't xfer to brlcad so very well |
| 22:18.25 |
tessier_ |
I am into
gliders and electrics. I used to do gas way back in high school
(early 90's) but the electric stuff is so much better
now. |
| 22:18.57 |
louipc |
tessier_:
nice about the GPL :D |
| 22:19.07 |
``Erik |
I tried gas
in '90 or so, backed off, did it again in '03/'04, hwacked my
finger and have been too chickenshit to bothr since |
| 22:19.28 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: You
will prefer electric then. You probably whacked your finger
starting or adjusting mixture right? |
| 22:19.45 |
``Erik |
adjusting one
of twingy's planes, yes |
| 22:19.48 |
louipc |
:D |
| 22:19.50 |
``Erik |
after I lost
one |
| 22:19.52 |
tessier_ |
Electric is
so much nicer. You never have the engine sitting around idling and
you have no problem with mixture or starting. |
| 22:20.02 |
``Erik |
that's why
I've been thinking about it :) |
| 22:20.16 |
louipc |
and you can
use it for stealth reconnaisance? |
| 22:20.18 |
tessier_ |
Hopefully a
combination of qcad/brl-cad can do what I need |
| 22:20.18 |
``Erik |
but the ~600
drive cost ... unless it's dropped a lot |
| 22:20.29 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: No
way dude. Get a speed 400 powered plane. Dirt cheap. |
| 22:20.38 |
tessier_ |
$10 for the
motor, maybe $40 for the ESC, I don't recall. |
| 22:20.43 |
tessier_ |
Another $20
for a battery and you have a whole power system. |
| 22:20.46 |
``Erik |
if you can
hack C and tcl, please feel free to 'fix' brlcad, yo |
| 22:20.48 |
louipc |
whoa |
| 22:20.51 |
``Erik |
BRL-CAD
rather |
| 22:20.52 |
tessier_ |
Actually
motors might be way cheaper now. |
| 22:20.59 |
``Erik |
brlcad might
not appreciate being fixed :> |
| 22:21.04 |
louipc |
``Erik: that
does get confusing haha |
| 22:21.07 |
tessier_ |
``Erik:
That's another thing: I kinda wish brl-cad were scriptable in lisp
or something like autocad. |
| 22:21.12 |
tessier_ |
Doing things
in C these days is just silly. |
| 22:21.13 |
``Erik |
oh, me
too |
| 22:21.16 |
tessier_ |
But I
understand brlcad is very old. |
| 22:21.18 |
``Erik |
I'm a scheme
geek |
| 22:21.24 |
``Erik |
but BRL-CAD
is married to tcl |
| 22:21.37 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: Me
too although I have never really done anythign with scheme. I've
read the Little Schemer and a few other books though. |
| 22:21.38 |
louipc |
tessier_: you
can script in Tcl |
| 22:21.49 |
tessier_ |
louipc: Yeah,
tcl isn't too bad. |
| 22:21.54 |
``Erik |
there's been
talk about hooking it into 'swig', but so much of the math shtuff
is macro based, it becomes undoable |
| 22:21.54 |
tessier_ |
I'm just not
as familiar with it. |
| 22:22.35 |
``Erik |
I'd imagine
that it wouldn't be TOO terribly difficult to develope a lithp
variant on tcl |
| 22:23.01 |
``Erik |
turing
complete is turing complete, y'know |
| 22:23.42 |
louipc |
Linux is
silly |
| 22:23.49 |
``Erik |
your mom is
silly |
| 22:24.02 |
louipc |
:O |
| 22:24.08 |
tessier_ |
Maloeran: For
the most part that is true. Programmer time and buffer overruns are
expensive. |
| 22:24.16 |
``Erik |
C is good for
low level things... *shrug* linux is a hair better than winderz,
not bsd cool, but *shrug* :) |
| 22:24.24 |
louipc |
a
hair! |
| 22:24.36 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: The
vast majority of stuff is not low level. |
| 22:24.52 |
louipc |
yeah
true |
| 22:24.53 |
``Erik |
I completely
agree, tessier... but mal was about ready to drop a brick in his
shorts there ;> |
| 22:25.10 |
``Erik |
<-- tends
to use ruby or scheme as a first shot for most things these
days |
| 22:25.33 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: Only
because he has been coding C for years and cannot appreciate how
much more efficient higher level languages are because they
represent a threat to the usefulness of his existing knowledge.
:) |
| 22:25.43 |
``Erik |
hahaha |
| 22:25.46 |
``Erik |
uh
oh |
| 22:25.52 |
``Erik |
don't say
nothin' 'bout assembly, mal will pop! |
| 22:25.53 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 22:25.55 |
``Erik |
*duck* |
| 22:25.55 |
tessier_ |
Efficient in
terms of programmer time (and therefore money) and darn near as
efficient in terms of cpu cycles too. |
| 22:26.17 |
Maloeran |
tessier_,
buffer overruns is a silly programmer mistake, bad programmers
shouldn't use C to begin with. Some complex tasks are actually less
bothersome to perform in C, for it really lets you do what you want
to do |
| 22:26.18 |
``Erik |
it's a matter
of how assess value to developer time |
| 22:26.26 |
``Erik |
ooooooold
people tend to put a lot of value on time |
| 22:26.31 |
``Erik |
young folk
tend to view it as 'free' |
| 22:26.39 |
Maloeran |
Plus of
course, efficiency of good C code can hardly be compared with any
scripting language |
| 22:26.39 |
tessier_ |
Assembly is
fun for understanding how architectures work and for programming
microcontrollers. |
| 22:27.17 |
tessier_ |
Maloeran: But
programmers aren't perfect. They have been making that mistake for
decades. Even the best ones. They are inevitable. |
| 22:28.06 |
Maloeran |
Indeed. And
that's why good Operating Systems have some security features, so
that we won't pay a global hit in performance just in case there's
a buffer overrun somewhere |
| 22:28.20 |
``Erik |
sometimes, I
look at some of their stuff and go "fucking brilliant", other
times, I go "wtff" |
| 22:28.42 |
``Erik |
heh, so
you're using obsd these days, mal? :> *duck* |
| 22:28.53 |
tessier_ |
Critical
loops that get executed zillions of times can be in C and assembly.
Anything else, including word processors and the like which hardly
ever use cpu and spend all their time waiting on programmer input,
should probably be in a higher level language. |
| 22:29.06 |
tessier_ |
That goes for
mail servers, dns servers, etc also. They spend all their time
waiting on IO. |
| 22:29.20 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 22:29.31 |
tessier_ |
Link to a C
implementation of your hashtable function or whatever and do all
the other silly stuff in a HLL |
| 22:29.38 |
Maloeran |
That I agree,
languages should be used for what they are best suited for. There's
still much room for C out there |
| 22:29.55 |
louipc |
yep |
| 22:30.01 |
tessier_ |
There's tons
of room for C. But I think it is currently taking up more room than
it rightfully deserves. :) |
| 22:30.09 |
tessier_ |
Fortunately
that is changing though. |
| 22:30.10 |
``Erik |
code it in
scheme, when you find a bit of scheme that you simply can't make
fast enough, rewrite it in C... when you find a bit of C that can't
possibly be rewritten to be fast enough, rewrite it in asm... if
you find a bit of asm that can't possibly be rewritten to be fast
enough, go back to the drawing board, yo |
| 22:30.21 |
tessier_ |
``Erik:
Exactly. FFI for the win! |
| 22:30.46 |
``Erik |
<-- feels
that c++ and java simply don't belong... they're tools to limit the
damage incompetents can do, not tools to extend the ability of
competents :( |
| 22:30.51 |
Maloeran |
I usually go
back to the drawing board before the assembly step, but good enough
:) |
| 22:31.14 |
tessier_ |
``Erik:
Agreed. I don't see much good use for java. But lots of people are
brainwashed with it. |
| 22:31.18 |
``Erik |
(and limited
incompetence sucks compared to a little competence
*cough*) |
| 22:31.35 |
tessier_ |
C++ sure
seemed cool way back when and even I would have agreed it was a
good way to go once upon a time but I have wisened up since
then. |
| 22:31.41 |
Maloeran |
tessier_, I
think C should be the language of choice for all core libraries and
related low-level software, I'm actually worried that it's less
being used for new software these days |
| 22:31.57 |
``Erik |
there're bits
of jabba I like, I think it's better than c++, but there're bits I
dont' like... and in practice, it's grossly abused |
| 22:32.04 |
tessier_ |
Maloeran: I
guess it depends on where you draw the line for
low-level. |
| 22:32.39 |
``Erik |
<-- would
rather have a boffo scheme or smalltalk core library than a good C
one... *shrug* :) |
| 22:33.05 |
``Erik |
mebbe I'm
just sick in the head |
| 22:33.16 |
louipc |
they force
java in school |
| 22:34.08 |
Maloeran |
Sometimes,
even C seems too high level for me. Compilers are so incompetent,
when one cares about performance |
| 22:34.17 |
``Erik |
when I wasi n
college (the second time), the were migrating to jabba the last
year I was there... |
| 22:34.19 |
Maloeran |
It's so
tempting to just get down in assembly for an instant >30%
performance boost |
| 22:34.28 |
Maloeran |
I think I
should do that before Siggraph |
| 22:34.46 |
``Erik |
30% with no
change in linearality can't comopete with even a loss of static and
improved 'big oh' |
| 22:34.46 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:34.51 |
tessier_ |
Maloeran: One
rarely needs to care about performance these days. A few
microseconds different in my code execution time matters little to
me. :) |
| 22:35.13 |
tessier_ |
I tend to do
a lot of text processing, system administrator type stuff, network
IO, web applications, etc. |
| 22:35.16 |
``Erik |
"my assembly
form outruns this high level one, up to 10 memory locations...
*cough*" |
| 22:35.22 |
tessier_ |
IO is always
the bottleneck before cpu in my projects. |
| 22:35.46 |
tessier_ |
For something
like raytracing I can totally see where cpu counts. |
| 22:36.00 |
tessier_ |
But few
people have the need to implement raytracers. |
| 22:36.18 |
``Erik |
(mal is heavy
into high speed raytracing lately) |
| 22:37.11 |
tessier_ |
I
see. |
| 22:37.16 |
``Erik |
tessier: if
you want to make BRL-CAD work for you, we'd be happy to discuss the
path from point A to point B, it's mostly a matter of A) not
knowing the drafting world so well and B) not having the time to do
it :/ |
| 22:37.18 |
tessier_ |
Maloeran: I
bet you use vi. :) |
| 22:37.27 |
``Erik |
hey, shut up,
I use vim :( |
| 22:37.37 |
tessier_ |
``Erik: You
code scheme in vim? |
| 22:37.40 |
``Erik |
yup |
| 22:37.44 |
tessier_ |
I like vim
just fine. Been using it for 10 years. |
| 22:37.50 |
tessier_ |
But coding
scheme in vim seems a bit nutty. |
| 22:37.58 |
``Erik |
there're
addons to make it better |
| 22:38.05 |
tessier_ |
I learned
emacs for programming tasks and use vi for everything
else. |
| 22:38.05 |
``Erik |
vim has a
dialect of schemme somewhere under the hood |
| 22:38.18 |
``Erik |
a lot more
'normal' compared to modern languages than elithp |
| 22:38.22 |
tessier_ |
It bugs me
that that they wrote their own extension language for
vim |
| 22:38.41 |
tessier_ |
I know you
can tie python and other stuff into it. But one standard extension
language that everyone uses seems like a better way to
go. |
| 22:38.42 |
louipc |
well there's
already sketch objects in BRL-CAD |
| 22:38.51 |
``Erik |
vim has
pluggable extensions... mine are built with python, ruby, and the
internal scheme/lithp |
| 22:39.00 |
``Erik |
plus cscope,
and with the gui disabled |
| 22:39.03 |
tessier_ |
If brl-cad
doesn't work for drafting it probably isn't what I need. Although I
wish I could draft and then produce a 3d model. |
| 22:39.23 |
tessier_ |
So I don't
have to draw everything twice. |
| 22:39.30 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 22:39.35 |
tessier_ |
Wish I could
draw in a speed 400 motor and then use that same dawing in
both. |
| 22:39.46 |
``Erik |
BRL-CAD can
do 3d models, and has something called "rtedge" that attempts to do
line drawings |
| 22:40.06 |
``Erik |
it cannot do
dimension lines at this time, and rtedge is...
nonoptimal |
| 22:40.38 |
``Erik |
if you're
just wanting something to help cut balsa and place bits, rtedge
MIGHT be sufficient |
| 22:40.52 |
``Erik |
not something
that can be passed to a machine cutter though |
| 22:41.28 |
tessier_ |
I'm not
fortunately enough to have a machine cutter. |
| 22:41.52 |
tessier_ |
But I would
like something I can print 2d blueprints from. I'm not so
interested in balsa as I am in composite design. |
| 22:41.55 |
louipc |
what needs
dimensioning can be arbitrary and needs to be selected by the
drafter |
| 22:42.00 |
tessier_ |
I make stuff
from fiberglass, carbon fiber, expoxy resin, etc. |
| 22:42.09 |
``Erik |
ummmmmmmm |
| 22:42.11 |
``Erik |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA |
| 22:42.24 |
tessier_ |
2d drawings
are mostly for patterns, jigs, etc. And 2d parts fitting and layout
planning although 3d would be better for that. |
| 22:42.36 |
``Erik |
that device
was designed and raytraced using BRL-CAD by one of the dudes who
hangs out here |
| 22:42.51 |
``Erik |
if you go to
the web page, he has lots of 'rtedge' displays |
| 22:43.10 |
``Erik |
he even found
a funky race condition bug in rtedge :) |
| 22:43.34 |
``Erik |
http://ronja.twibright.com/ |
| 22:47.16 |
``Erik |
(unfortunate
that he didn't use the multispectral raytracing capabilities to
optimize configuration, but *shrug* it got the job
done) |
| 22:47.44 |
tessier_ |
Wow, that
RONJA device is really cool |
| 22:49.26 |
``Erik |
http://ronja.twibright.com/holder/index.php
is the output of rtedge |
| 22:49.37 |
``Erik |
with the bug,
heh |
| 22:49.59 |
``Erik |
<-- fixed
it, but doesn't remember if the fix made it to 7.10.0 or not...
7.10.2 should be out 'any day now' |
| 22:50.07 |
``Erik |
if brlcad
would get off his duff O.o :> *duck* |
| 22:50.28 |
tessier_ |
What does
rtedge do exactly? |
| 22:50.55 |
louipc |
cool |
| 22:51.03 |
``Erik |
um, fires
proximity rays and if the difference in first hit is above a
threshold, draws a line there |
| 22:51.50 |
``Erik |
but at the
moment, the threshold is hard coded and more designed for
reasonably large vehicles (like, 10m long... think
tanks) |
| 22:52.38 |
tessier_ |
I
see. |
| 22:52.52 |
tessier_ |
Ever heard of
CADIA? |
| 22:53.14 |
``Erik |
sounds
semi-familiar |
| 22:53.38 |
tessier_ |
http://www.nextcraft.com/rcprojects.html |
| 22:53.55 |
tessier_ |
Check out
those models. All rendered in 3d. This guy is a master. |
| 22:54.24 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 22:54.34 |
``Erik |
ummm |
| 22:54.52 |
``Erik |
one of the
nifty things of brlcad is the ability to estimate CM, total mass,
etc |
| 22:57.03 |
tessier_ |
Yes, that
could be handy |
| 22:57.40 |
``Erik |
aand there's
effort to export to a FEM format, uhhh, 'qubit', which could do
flow analysis |
| 22:58.01 |
``Erik |
qubit might
not be public, though :/ |
| 22:58.14 |
tessier_ |
Total mass?
So you tell it how much each of the materials weighs
etc? |
| 22:58.21 |
louipc |
tessier_:
what's cadia? |
| 22:59.10 |
``Erik |
yes, every
region can have a material associated, density of the material is
defined and it can sum it all up |
| 22:59.40 |
tessier_ |
http://www.nextcraft.com/nextcraft_products.html |
| 22:59.43 |
``Erik |
I think it's
still all done with 'GIFT' materials, which tend to be skewed
towards heavier harder things |
| 22:59.49 |
tessier_ |
I think cadia
is what this guy uses for his 3d models but I'm not
sure. |
| 22:59.57 |
``Erik |
like, several
kinds of steel, some hard woods, don't think balsa is a standard
bit |
| 23:00.02 |
``Erik |
but could
easily be added |
| 23:00.02 |
tessier_ |
Can I define
my own materials? |
| 23:00.07 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 23:00.18 |
tessier_ |
And units?
Like draw a speed 400 motor and say it weighs this much and has a
center of mass/gravity at a particular location? |
| 23:00.35 |
``Erik |
the .g db
understands ints, and there's a materials file that's
ascii |
| 23:00.41 |
tessier_ |
That would be
pretty handy for building models. |
| 23:01.02 |
``Erik |
ummm, it
understands units, I dunno if you can skew like that, um, though if
you defined the guts of the 400 motor, it SHOULD come out
correct |
| 23:01.30 |
``Erik |
or you could
make the motor otu of two cylinders (plus surface crap) and assign
different 'effective mass' coefficients for the bits to emulate the
correct balance |
| 23:03.34 |
``Erik |
the only bit
that might be seriously challenging would be shaped bits (nose
cones, the inital scoop on the rudder, etc) and skinning :/
otherwise, most r/c planes are awfully simple |
| 23:03.51 |
``Erik |
and
'advanced' primitives like the "pipe" goes perfectly with control
gear |
| 23:04.47 |
``Erik |
naturally,
the engineering of how to assemble it will be up to the model
developer, but with the raytracing abilities, you could 'see' a
proposed model at each step of assembly |
| 23:06.12 |
``Erik |
there's even
a 'best fit' project on the table that'd go well for laying out how
to cut up planks of balsa, once it's implemented :) |
| 23:09.54 |
``Erik |
heh "spel
chek" |
| 23:30.05 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 00:11.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:34.12 |
LinuxMafia |
i need to
export .bs file to .g file |
| 00:46.37 |
brlcad |
.bs? |
| 00:49.57 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad,
hi |
| 00:50.09 |
LinuxMafia |
hi
poolio |
| 00:50.22 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, it is
makehuman file |
| 01:03.45 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am):
more items that need to be uninstalled, added since a5 to
a6 |
| 01:07.09 |
``Erik |
that'd be an
awesome tld |
| 01:48.57 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:01.55 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@199.247.233.116) |
| 02:10.20 |
louipc |
new release
hey? :D |
| 03:13.20 |
brlcad |
louipc: soon,
making sure the dists work |
| 03:14.11 |
poolio |
brlcad:
grargh. found why my program was running fairly slow. I had ncpu
hardcoded as 1...d'oh. I have 2 :) |
| 03:15.30 |
brlcad |
that should
make some difference :) |
| 03:16.16 |
poolio |
brlcad: also,
I'm currently not setting a_ray_length and am manually clipping the
partitions. Can I trust a_ray_length or no? I recall you saying
something about how I should just code it |
| 03:17.31 |
brlcad |
yeah, I'd
just code it yourself |
| 03:17.42 |
brlcad |
you see the
picture? |
| 03:18.06 |
poolio |
which one?
the whole explaining intersection and boudning box and
crossover |
| 03:18.33 |
brlcad |
the only
picture I've made for you afair :) |
| 03:18.41 |
poolio |
yes I
saw |
| 03:19.25 |
poolio |
but I mean,
there's no real way around it is there? |
| 03:19.36 |
brlcad |
there
is |
| 03:19.53 |
poolio |
hmm. lemme
dig up that picture again |
| 03:20.53 |
brlcad |
you expand
your shoot grid to encompass the bounds, using the same grid sample
size .. and any material found just decreases fitness by that much
a ratio |
| 03:21.21 |
brlcad |
probably not
something you need to worry about, but it should probably be
documented |
| 03:21.34 |
poolio |
wait, well I
disagree |
| 03:21.50 |
poolio |
Maybe you
only want the corner of the object |
| 03:22.27 |
poolio |
Like lets say
you have a sphere, and your input geometry is the shape of a half a
hemisphere. a quarter sphere? my vocabulary fails. but regardless,
why should we decrease the fitness? |
| 03:22.43 |
poolio |
I mean I
don't see why it matters what's outside the bounding box as long as
what is inside the bounding box is correct |
| 03:23.01 |
poolio |
Ah wait.
d'oh. I guess it _looks_ fine in terms of voxel data but the model
would be wrong. I see... |
| 03:23.03 |
brlcad |
not following
your example |
| 03:23.21 |
poolio |
Well my
example is wrong |
| 03:23.33 |
brlcad |
i mean if
it's a half a sphere, with a box subtracted, then the bounding box
would be all misses, and youd be fine |
| 03:24.00 |
poolio |
hmm, i dont
quite follow your example either |
| 03:24.03 |
poolio |
what I meant
was this |
| 03:24.11 |
poolio |
Lets say your
input data was in the shape of a hemisphere. |
| 03:24.16 |
brlcad |
er, my
example is just the one on paper :) |
| 03:24.18 |
poolio |
Now lets say
you sample a fixed bounding box |
| 03:24.23 |
brlcad |
er,
s/paper/picture |
| 03:24.35 |
brlcad |
okay, shape
of a hemisphere |
| 03:24.47 |
brlcad |
bounding box
is nice and tight around it |
| 03:25.03 |
poolio |
now lets say
the GA comes up with a solution that is a sphere |
| 03:25.12 |
poolio |
and the lower
half of that sphere is exactly where the input geometry
is |
| 03:25.16 |
poolio |
that sphere
is a perfectly fit individual |
| 03:25.35 |
poolio |
I was
thinking, "alright, that's good" but I realize that we don't want
that. We need it to match the model and only the model |
| 03:25.52 |
brlcad |
right, the
point is to match the input |
| 03:26.26 |
poolio |
yeah...I was
just thinking matching the voxel data, and ignoring what's outside
the bounding box, but yeah that's not right |
| 03:26.53 |
brlcad |
i mean, you
can get away with it -- that's what I meant about it being fine for
now |
| 03:27.39 |
brlcad |
if you found
something that did match everything inside the box, you have a
"good" solution by just intersecting the result model with the
bounding box |
| 03:27.50 |
brlcad |
not
necessarily optimal, but it's good |
| 03:27.54 |
poolio |
ah yeah, you
could do that |
| 03:28.31 |
brlcad |
so, just
document the limitation and don't worry about it :) |
| 03:28.45 |
poolio |
alright. it's
quite trivial to implement though |
| 03:28.57 |
brlcad |
nah, don't
both |
| 03:28.59 |
brlcad |
bother |
| 03:29.04 |
poolio |
alright |
| 03:29.15 |
brlcad |
it gets more
complex |
| 03:30.16 |
brlcad |
e.g. taking
your example of a hemisphere.. consider one solution that has a
tight-fitted box subtracting perfectly on the bounding box's edge,
and another that extracts massive space but giving the same
result |
| 03:30.41 |
brlcad |
their fitness
would work out to the same if you only consider positive space, but
the tight-fitting result is more desirable |
| 03:31.52 |
poolio |
yeah. that's
where you'd hope the # nodes would do something. but if you have it
fixed then ... nope |
| 03:32.15 |
poolio |
If you
allowed variation in #nodes, ideally it would converge on the
tight-fitting one with the least amount of wasted
space. |
| 03:32.16 |
brlcad |
the number of
nodes are identical in that case |
| 03:32.23 |
brlcad |
one sphere
and one box being subtracted |
| 03:32.42 |
brlcad |
it's the size
of the box (its efficiency as a cutting space) that
matters |
| 03:33.05 |
poolio |
Well, if you
include your method of shooting more rays they wouldnt be
identical |
| 03:33.14 |
poolio |
oh
wait |
| 03:33.15 |
poolio |
I
see |
| 03:33.16 |
brlcad |
they
would |
| 03:33.19 |
brlcad |
negative
space |
| 03:33.22 |
poolio |
Yeah
yeah |
| 03:33.23 |
brlcad |
it's a
miss |
| 03:33.35 |
brlcad |
anyways,
"don't worry about it" :) |
| 03:33.37 |
poolio |
So you could
have a box that cuts from the hemisphere and goes on
forever |
| 03:33.40 |
poolio |
and wastes
tons of space |
| 03:33.42 |
brlcad |
right |
| 03:33.46 |
poolio |
hrmph. |
| 03:33.58 |
poolio |
I'm a bit
slow and more than a bit sick, sorry :) |
| 03:34.01 |
brlcad |
there's an
easy metric in that case |
| 03:34.15 |
brlcad |
even better
than looking at the size of the csg tree |
| 03:34.36 |
poolio |
I would say
size of the bounding box? |
| 03:34.50 |
poolio |
(addition of
each individual object) |
| 03:34.56 |
brlcad |
nope, bigger
might be better in a different case |
| 03:34.57 |
poolio |
well not
object, shape |
| 03:35.17 |
brlcad |
you'd take
the evaluation time into consideration |
| 03:35.27 |
brlcad |
how long does
it take to shoot rays at one vs the other |
| 03:35.40 |
brlcad |
smaller trees
and tighter fitting csg will naturally win |
| 03:35.48 |
brlcad |
as will more
efficient primitives |
| 03:35.58 |
poolio |
hmm, good
thought |
| 03:36.14 |
brlcad |
an advanced
idea for later .. much later :) |
| 03:36.38 |
brlcad |
after it's
shown to work or not work on basic parts |
| 03:36.47 |
poolio |
you'd have to
rely on a stable environment though, I feel like there are a lot of
factors that could throw it off |
| 03:36.51 |
poolio |
yes
yes |
| 03:37.30 |
poolio |
I'm doing
some code clean up now. Then I'll finish up mutation and the
setting of the inclusion of certain upper/lower
individuals |
| 03:55.14 |
poolio |
Hmm
wonderful. I spy a race condition. |
| 04:00.51 |
poolio |
sleepy time.
cya brlcad |
| 04:01.54 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r214 10/trunk/libirc/autogen.sh: update to the latest
script, version 20070618 from brl-cad |
| 04:03.59 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r215 10/trunk/libirc/COPYING: license is supposed to be
LGPL, not GPL .. readme is correct but this file is
wrong |
| 04:51.00 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/Makefile.am
m4/restore.m4): |
| 04:51.00 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
autogen.sh no longer creates .backup files in an aux directory, so
there's |
| 04:51.00 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
nothing for us to automatically recover from. this means subsequent
clobbering |
| 04:51.00 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
automakes may blow away our files, but there's not much we can do
about it. |
| 05:25.10 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob_
(n=yukonbob@199.247.233.116) |
| 06:31.09 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: minor dead code |
| 07:12.33 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r216 10/trunk/libirc/m4/ (. args.m4 cache.m4 mkdirp.m4
search.m4 stage.m4): add a bunch of boilerplate m4 macros to
simplify the configure logic a bit |
| 07:13.36 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r217 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: be sure that aclocal
searches in the m4 dir for macros, require automake 1.6 and
generate all dist formats |
| 07:15.33 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r218 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: update to better
configure logic, using bc and bz as example |
| 07:26.25 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:30.19 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/patch.m4 m4/Makefile.am):
turn the libtool chunk that patches libtool if it has the -all_load
bug on Mac OS X into an m4 macro, BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL |
| 07:35.33 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r219 10/trunk/libirc/misc/ (Makefile.am Makefile.defs):
import brl-cad's nifty noprod rules |
| 07:37.17 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r220 10/trunk/libirc/m4/ (Makefile.am patch.m4): bring
over BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL too, and add the m4 files to the
dist |
| 07:40.39 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r221 10/trunk/libirc/ (Makefile.am configure.ac): use
BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL, add m4 to the build path |
| 07:48.12 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/compiler.m4): move the sanity
check to a BC_SANITY_CHECK macro |
| 07:49.18 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r222 10/trunk/libirc/ (configure.ac m4/Makefile.am
m4/compiler.m4): import BC_SANITY_CHECK |
| 07:54.46 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: add support for
--with-cxxflags |
| 07:54.57 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r223 10/trunk/libirc/m4/args.m4: add
--with-cxxflags |
| 07:55.59 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r224 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: condense the 32 or so
lines down to one for the standard --with overrides via
BC_WITH_FLAG_ARGS |
| 08:03.55 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r225 10/trunk/libirc/include/net.h: can't have anonymous
typedef types used as parameters |
| 08:16.33 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r226
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidServer/src/Makefile.am: fix minor
copy-paste typo, should be stupidServer not stupidBot |
| 08:17.10 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r227 10/trunk/libirc/ (14 files in 13 dirs): propagate
Makefile.defs throughout so that the recursive noprod rule
works |
| 08:21.28 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r228 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: er, we're using svn
for libirc, so check that when determining whether to
enable/disable automatic dependency tracking |
| 08:23.42 |
*** join/#brlcad cad92
(n=55647250@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 08:29.30 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r229 10/trunk/libirc/src/Makefile.am: bunch of files
added/changed since this was first written, update to match
current |
| 08:30.52 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r230 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: you still
can't take a reference to a temporary anonymous type, also fix the
handful of erase iterators |
| 08:33.53 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r231 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (irClientCommands.cpp
irClientEvents.cpp): more instances of trying to take a reference
to a temporary |
| 08:36.09 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 08:37.51 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r232 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
s/loger/logger/, and fix scope on the default loggers so they don't
run into each other in the library. libIRC is now
compilation-functional again. |
| 08:42.06 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r233
10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/src/simpleIRCConnect.cpp:
yet another ref to temp, all examples compile now too |
| 09:07.22 |
CIA-29 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r234 10/trunk/libirc/ (8 files in 8 dirs): ... and now
libIRC even successfully passes a make distcheck again ... ship
it! |
| 11:58.28 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-069-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:12.08 |
*** join/#brlcad cad09
(n=d8cc12e3@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:54.00 |
Maloeran |
Ahah, that
was really pathetic of me. I reserved my flight tickets for
Siggraph in the month of July rather than August |
| 12:59.39 |
Laniakea |
brlcad: where
is the workplace where BRL-CAD is created actually physically
based? |
| 13:18.30 |
``Erik |
heh,
woops |
| 13:18.54 |
``Erik |
laniakea:
what do you mean? |
| 13:19.30 |
``Erik |
oh, the
physical location of the original (some most of the current)
developers |
| 13:20.11 |
Laniakea |
let's say
that yes |
| 13:20.27 |
``Erik |
at the top of
every C file should be a 'source' block... |
| 13:20.42 |
``Erik |
something
like this |
| 13:20.43 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.43 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.43 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 13:49.41 |
brlcad |
not any more
on latest head, though not comprehensively reoved
either |
| 13:50.57 |
``Erik |
hrm? you
removed the source entries? O.o |
| 13:54.16 |
brlcad |
phone numbers
and addresses, particularly the ones that were no longer
valid |
| 13:54.42 |
``Erik |
ah,
city/state should still be ok though |
| 13:54.50 |
``Erik |
(I pulled
that from bu fgets.c |
| 13:54.51 |
``Erik |
) |
| 13:55.11 |
brlcad |
the zip has
changed over the years |
| 13:56.03 |
brlcad |
yeah, in
general it's still okay, but it still the entire
premise |
| 13:56.23 |
brlcad |
a "location"
source for something that eventually/often has multiple distributed
authors |
| 13:57.11 |
``Erik |
true, but
it'd be nifty to search the source for valid location info and
generate a developer map, like debian and fbsd have |
| 13:57.29 |
brlcad |
those origins
can be (and are) documented elsewhere, the code doesn't necessarily
need to reflect that, particularly when they're often
wrong |
| 13:57.37 |
``Erik |
a la http://www.debian.org/devel/developers.loc |
| 13:58.11 |
brlcad |
yes, but then
afaik they don't generate those maps off of their
sources |
| 13:58.16 |
brlcad |
their devs
say where they are at |
| 13:58.20 |
``Erik |
no, the
developers submit |
| 13:58.21 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 13:58.26 |
``Erik |
same with the
bsd one |
| 14:58.54 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:05.25 |
``Erik |
freakin'
vacuum always tripping the freakin' circuit breaker |
| 15:06.06 |
archivist |
Ive seen bad
breakers as well |
| 15:09.25 |
``Erik |
hum, there're
two heavy computer users on this one breaker... I have 3 machines
and 4 monitors, the other guy has about the same... |
| 15:09.58 |
``Erik |
(overcrowded
and organized to siloize based on role...) |
| 15:10.40 |
``Erik |
interesting,
configures search for system tk fails if there's no valid display
to connect to |
| 16:26.46 |
LinuxMafia |
hi |
| 16:26.54 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, u
here? |
| 16:27.17 |
LinuxMafia |
i need to
export makehuman files into brlcad |
| 16:28.32 |
brlcad |
i'm usually
here |
| 16:28.37 |
brlcad |
i just might
not answer if i'm busy :) |
| 16:28.47 |
LinuxMafia |
oh
ok |
| 16:28.52 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad,
cool |
| 16:28.59 |
LinuxMafia |
do you know
makehuman? |
| 16:29.06 |
brlcad |
you need
something that reads makehuman files or you'll need to scrtip/code
something yourself |
| 16:29.06 |
poolio |
I think
makehuman files aren't standard |
| 16:29.31 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
woke up this morning by walking into my bathroom and stepping on a
humongous hornet. stung me right at the ball of my middle toe.
:( |
| 16:30.23 |
brlcad |
LinuxMafia,
what are their export formats? find one that matches one of
BRL-CAD's importers |
| 16:30.40 |
brlcad |
poolio...
ouch! |
| 16:30.46 |
brlcad |
that had to
hurt |
| 16:31.04 |
brlcad |
makes my
hairs stand up just thinking about it |
| 16:31.07 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, it is
.bvs |
| 16:31.13 |
LinuxMafia |
.bs* |
| 16:33.16 |
poolio |
brlcad: it's
still throbbing. makes it hard to concentrate on code :\ oh
well. |
| 16:34.32 |
brlcad |
LinuxMafia: I
understand that -- that's their format |
| 16:34.38 |
brlcad |
pretty much
nothing reads their format |
| 16:34.50 |
poolio |
LinuxMafia:
is there a way to export a makehuman file as another
format? |
| 16:34.53 |
brlcad |
so you'll
have to export it in makehuman to a format that others
understand |
| 16:35.04 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, and
there is also objects , but i dont know how to make
that |
| 16:35.12 |
brlcad |
a quick look
through their site shows that they export obj format, which is
pretty simple |
| 16:35.30 |
brlcad |
though we
only have an obj exporter, not an importer at the
moment.. |
| 16:35.43 |
brlcad |
so you'd
still have to use some intermediary tool or write an obj
importer |
| 16:36.28 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, how
about export it into blender |
| 16:36.39 |
LinuxMafia |
and from
there to brlcad |
| 16:36.47 |
brlcad |
you can
export to obj, then import obj to blender, sure |
| 16:37.29 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, then
brlcad can read that ? |
| 16:37.34 |
brlcad |
then export
from blender to dxf or ply or stl, or several other import
formas |
| 16:37.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
tips on learning how to properly profile software? |
| 16:37.54 |
LinuxMafia |
oh got it
now |
| 16:37.57 |
brlcad |
poolio, yes,
get a good profile :) |
| 16:38.01 |
brlcad |
er,
profiler |
| 16:38.19 |
poolio |
any
suggestions? |
| 16:38.56 |
brlcad |
depends
heavily on which platform and what sort of profiling -- mac os x's
chud tools are currently some of the best all around (shark in
particular) |
| 16:39.03 |
poolio |
I'm doing
some general code clean up and was just trying to see if there was
anything I could do to speed it up. I mean, I can see certain parts
of the code and fix it that way, but there's no good reason to try
to optimize stuff until i've profiled |
| 16:39.11 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
under linux |
| 16:39.12 |
brlcad |
gprof is
pretty run of the mill, and a good starting point |
| 16:39.21 |
poolio |
If you'd like
me to send me a new macbook pro I could profile with that
:) |
| 16:39.23 |
brlcad |
not a great
profiler, but enough to get you going |
| 16:39.30 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 16:39.43 |
poolio |
I'd even
sacrifice a bit and take your old one :) |
| 16:40.56 |
brlcad |
I have
several old vaio's that I'd loan ya ;) |
| 16:41.21 |
brlcad |
but then it's
probably an order slower than what you have :) |
| 16:42.04 |
brlcad |
beautiful
notebooks though, first sub-1" sub-10lbs notebook |
| 16:42.06 |
poolio |
yar. my
laptop's reasonably fast. Just has been having some heat and
battery issues recently. I'm now only getting ~1 hour and it gets
up to 80C when I test out my software |
| 16:42.15 |
poolio |
sub-10lbs.
haha |
| 16:42.59 |
brlcad |
~convert 1.4
kilograms to pounds |
| 16:43.07 |
brlcad |
sorry,
sub-3lbs :) |
| 16:43.36 |
poolio |
haha.
yeah |
| 16:43.46 |
brlcad |
about 10
years old now |
| 16:43.49 |
poolio |
I was
thinking about getting a new ultraportable for college but it's a
lot of cash and I'll survive with what I've got now |
| 16:43.55 |
poolio |
That's
impressive for that time |
| 16:46.20 |
poolio |
brlcad: I may
have asked you this already, but out of curiousity, what do you do
most of your coding in? |
| 16:47.25 |
brlcad |
emacs |
| 16:47.45 |
poolio |
heh. never
could get used to emacs. been using vim forever |
| 16:47.56 |
brlcad |
I hunkered
down for a week after coding for several years with other editors
(pico, vi, ..) |
| 16:48.12 |
brlcad |
and never
went back |
| 16:48.24 |
poolio |
any
particular reason? |
| 16:49.44 |
brlcad |
well,
particularly because once you get over that learning curve for the
default bindings, it really is more efficient, imo, over vim and
just about everything else out there |
| 16:50.18 |
brlcad |
i mean,
putting equal effort into both for a month, someone in emacs will
end up being more proficient |
| 16:50.49 |
brlcad |
and not just
for the editing, but the other facilities that emacs brings as an
integrated development environment |
| 16:51.36 |
poolio |
yeah, that
was one of my main reasons that I stopped. I like having my text
editor just be a text editor, and I work by opening up multiple
terminals and editing a file in vim in each of them, another window
compiling. It's just a habit |
| 16:52.03 |
brlcad |
there are
some things that vim works very well for even over emacs, but for
long-term coding emacs is specifically built for it |
| 16:52.23 |
brlcad |
yeah, and I
used to say the same .. you grow habits |
| 16:52.33 |
brlcad |
and those
habits staple your preferences to what you already know |
| 16:53.35 |
brlcad |
in the end,
it's just a tool and will boil down to the developer's proficiency
with that tool -- but that's where I say that after equal
investing, your emacs user will generally be far more proficient in
the long run |
| 16:55.03 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, how
about .mtl? |
| 16:55.30 |
brlcad |
like I said,
I fought it for years -- even after seeing in college that 90% of
the "best" coders in the upperclassmen above me were all proficient
emacs users (with about 9% using vi, and 1% using something else)
-- but then I hunkered down for a solid week (which turned into
two) and said I'd give it an honest chance |
| 16:56.02 |
brlcad |
and with a
cheat-sheet beside me for days, I worked through the tutorials,
learned the bindings, and then lightbulbs started going
off |
| 16:56.13 |
brlcad |
LinuxMafia:
ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g |
| 16:56.18 |
brlcad |
those are the
importers |
| 16:56.25 |
brlcad |
no more, no
less :) |
| 16:56.34 |
LinuxMafia |
thanks
alot |
| 16:58.26 |
poolio |
brlcad:
lightbulbs? really? I'll have to give it a go then |
| 16:59.49 |
brlcad |
poolio: it
wasn't until about a week of non-stop use, constantly referring to
a cheat sheet while I learned, but yes it did eventually
happen |
| 17:00.37 |
brlcad |
it's still
not a panacea, every environment has it's limitations |
| 17:00.45 |
poolio |
My main thing
was the key combos were awkward and I didn't bother to change
them |
| 17:00.56 |
brlcad |
I would
suggest NOT changing them |
| 17:01.20 |
brlcad |
learning the
defaults is important for reasons that won't matter for quite a
while, but eventually will matter |
| 17:01.21 |
poolio |
get used to
awkwardly twisting your fingers? |
| 17:01.46 |
brlcad |
do you know
how to type? |
| 17:01.51 |
poolio |
not
well |
| 17:02.15 |
brlcad |
hm, then it
might seem awkward for some combos I suppose if you use the wrong
fingers |
| 17:02.39 |
brlcad |
not well as
in you don't touch type or you just don't touch type
fast? |
| 17:02.53 |
poolio |
Well, mainly
the ctrl+ things. The ctrl on my laptop kbd is not the lower left,
Fn is lower left, it's to the right of that. So it's kind of
awkward. and I never use the lower right shift/ctrl
keys |
| 17:03.12 |
poolio |
I don't touch
type fast and I don't make full use of the keyboard |
| 17:03.22 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 17:04.08 |
brlcad |
well hitting
lower-left control is probably just familiarity, my left pinky hits
it without hesitation |
| 17:04.25 |
brlcad |
i vaguely
remember it being awkward the first week too, had to get some
muscle memory |
| 17:04.41 |
poolio |
hehe. yeah
maybe I'll have some time to learn later on |
| 17:05.25 |
brlcad |
learning to
use esc for meta instead of alt was another, using ctrl-n,p,f,b for
traversal, and a few others |
| 17:06.10 |
brlcad |
at the time
seemed like torture, but then after the familiarity curve, the
efficiency (particularly compared to modal editing in vim) was
rather blatent after a couple weeks |
| 17:06.12 |
poolio |
esc for meta?
weird |
| 17:06.25 |
brlcad |
esc is
meta |
| 17:06.39 |
poolio |
i always use
alt for meta |
| 17:06.46 |
brlcad |
esc is a
modal meta |
| 17:06.51 |
poolio |
ah |
| 17:07.04 |
brlcad |
and
considerably more portable |
| 17:07.47 |
brlcad |
alt generally
only works well on x86 |
| 17:08.07 |
brlcad |
which over
the years became important on many occasions |
| 17:08.44 |
brlcad |
even
recently, as that portability extends to keycodes through
ssh/terminal sessions for different
platforms/environments |
| 17:10.45 |
brlcad |
anyhow,
there's going to be no convincing unless you actually dedicate that
week (or more) of your coding life with an unbiased open mind
before you'd start to see what all the fuss has been
about |
| 17:11.12 |
poolio |
yes yes. it's
also possible after that week or two I stll won't like it. It's all
about personal preference in the end |
| 17:11.21 |
brlcad |
that is
true |
| 17:14.23 |
brlcad |
though I can
say that of several experienced coder friends which have gone
through the exercise, the result has thusfar been them either
giving up before the week ends or they convert |
| 17:15.57 |
brlcad |
it's also an
interesting trend that you rather frequently see coders that
convert from vim, pico, or whatever to emacs ... but you rarely
ever see an emacs coder convert to anything else |
| 17:18.43 |
poolio |
cause they're
close minded ;) |
| 17:19.36 |
brlcad |
could
be |
| 17:20.04 |
brlcad |
but then I
don't think it'd be so much a trend |
| 17:20.56 |
archivist |
Ive stuck at
vi or syn on windows |
| 17:20.57 |
brlcad |
I've seen
several editors that would give emacs a run for it's money if I
were a full-time java developer, for example |
| 17:22.11 |
brlcad |
i think it's
more just ease of use, vi is pretty simple to use, fairly simple to
learn .. low barrier to entry so you can get fairly proficient in
the environment |
| 17:22.37 |
``Erik |
vi
strusfrates me almost as much as emacs :) |
| 18:31.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Bman (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:41.05 |
poolio |
some people
qre quite impatient |
| 18:41.19 |
``Erik |
yes, I
am |
| 18:42.06 |
LinuxMafia |
brlcad, i
finnally succed |
| 18:42.07 |
``Erik |
I was sitting
in a machine room with a summer intern trying to figure out if we
were in the right machien room and what exactly she was supposed to
do O.o ended up calling him :) |
| 18:42.40 |
poolio |
haha
:) |
| 18:43.48 |
``Erik |
now I'm back
in my comfortable office reading about the latest kernel schedulers
while that poor kid is typing the names of a jazillion beta tapes
into a spreadsheet or something :) |
| 18:43.48 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 18:43.51 |
``Erik |
++evil |
| 18:44.35 |
dtidrow |
moi? |
| 18:47.45 |
``Erik |
no, me
:) |
| 18:50.26 |
dtidrow |
ah |
| 18:50.45 |
poolio |
hehe. |
| 18:50.59 |
poolio |
``Erik: is
that how they treat summer interns at ARL? |
| 19:00.34 |
``Erik |
well, usually
the intern projects are a bit cooler |
| 19:01.45 |
``Erik |
last year (or
was it year before), we had a coder doing something for scripting
abstraction, had a couple kids doing a survey of different 3d model
generation devices (laser scanners, GPS toucharms, etc), one kid
made a fairly detailed model of a residential house,
... |
| 19:02.20 |
``Erik |
not sure
where the 'catalog ancient media' came from *shrug* |
| 19:03.00 |
poolio |
yeah. that
sucks |
| 19:50.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-228-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:18.41 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 20:44.12 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@dhcp126-164.whthyt.northwestel.net) |
| 21:07.03 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-069-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:18.05 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: fixed race
condition |
| 21:40.01 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt232-138.northwestel.net) |
| 21:54.48 |
brlcad |
no way, her
project is pretty cool |
| 21:55.18 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c beset.h
fitness.h population.h): now able to keep an upper % of population
and kill a lower %. general code cleanup. |
| 21:56.00 |
brlcad |
if I could
drop this code project, I'd happily do what she's tasked with ..
catalogging is just some prep work, the task is to rummage through
a ton of historic video (of pretty significant importance) and
convert them to digital |
| 21:56.40 |
brlcad |
one of them
is the very first animation ever made with brl-cad, for
example |
| 21:56.46 |
poolio |
cool |
| 21:56.51 |
brlcad |
the first
"real time" ray-tracing video, |
| 21:56.55 |
archivist |
hopefully
before the media dies |
| 21:57.02 |
poolio |
is pop_rand
[0,1] or (0,1) ? |
| 21:57.41 |
brlcad |
archivist:
excatly, I'm already worried that they're starting to
degrade |
| 21:57.46 |
poolio |
archivist:
quite the appropriate name |
| 21:58.36 |
archivist |
I did some
work on 1/2" BW on Sony tape recorders and failed |
| 21:58.57 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-069-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:59.08 |
*** join/#brlcad cad38
(n=c950de63@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:59.08 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:59.23 |
brlcad |
there's
content on old u-matic tapes, master broadcast tapes, betacam sp,
some of the 'newer' of vhs, old film reels, actual old raw data
reels even |
| 21:59.47 |
archivist |
early video
has two basic types one likes to be cold and damp the other likes
warm and dry |
| 22:00.20 |
archivist |
dont ask me
which is which though |
| 22:03.02 |
archivist |
I had a
discussion with the archivist at the uk national photography museum
about the subject and its evil as the coating comes off and sticks
to the video heads |
| 22:03.49 |
archivist |
umatic may
well be ok as by that time things had improved |
| 22:06.42 |
brlcad |
yeah, this
stuff is only 20 years old or newer and has been mostly very very
well kept |
| 22:07.17 |
brlcad |
5-10 more
years and it could eaily be a very different story |
| 22:08.04 |
dtidrow_work |
good luck
with that stuff, would hate to have it lost |
| 22:08.33 |
brlcad |
some of them
naturally "look pretty old" ala 1980's tron graphics quality, but
it's still pretty impressive stuff for some of the
videos |
| 22:09.02 |
dtidrow_work |
heh - Tron
was cutting-edge back then ;-) |
| 22:09.09 |
brlcad |
i've had it
high on my todo for many years (as well as going through GB's of
Mike's data) |
| 22:10.16 |
brlcad |
getting a
student to just get that list of the content, and particularly
finding where the *master* copies are .. as there are often a dozen
copies in 4 different formats |
| 22:10.48 |
dtidrow_work |
ah, the joys
of rummaging through old stuff :-) |
| 22:10.55 |
brlcad |
tron rocks,
I'd pay someone to build me a faithful csg lightcycle |
| 22:10.59 |
poolio |
brlcad:
shoulda sicked me on that, woulda been more useful :) |
| 22:11.13 |
brlcad |
poolio: too
easy for you :) |
| 22:11.24 |
poolio |
haha. yeah
right. |
| 22:11.54 |
brlcad |
though the
whole digital editing/remastering could be really fun, color
correction, repairs |
| 22:13.06 |
poolio |
writing a GA
to correct the reels |
| 22:13.15 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:13.31 |
poolio |
Removing the
noise |
| 22:13.32 |
poolio |
:) |
| 22:13.52 |
brlcad |
actually an
easier problem space :) |
| 22:14.05 |
poolio |
much. |
| 22:14.36 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 22:20.24 |
archivist |
I might cheat
I have a realtime video noise reducer |
| 22:20.39 |
poolio |
I wrote
something along those lines for an SLO last summer |
| 22:23.22 |
poolio |
brlcad: wait
wahhhhhhhhhh did i do wrong |
| 22:25.12 |
poolio |
brlcad: I'm
using them cause it's run in parallel...and I'm changing the
variable...right? |
| 22:25.15 |
poolio |
I'm probably
wrong. |
| 22:25.39 |
brlcad |
there's a
variety of ways they can be used |
| 22:26.03 |
brlcad |
i honestly
don't know .. i just glanced for all of 30 seconds to notice that
it seemed 'different' on the surface |
| 22:26.08 |
poolio |
Well, it
waits for the semaphore to be available, then does whatever it
needs to |
| 22:26.18 |
poolio |
different
from what? |
| 22:26.21 |
poolio |
from normal
usage? |
| 22:26.24 |
brlcad |
which isn't
to say that it's right, wrong, or beautifully creative, or a PoS
:) |
| 22:26.30 |
poolio |
ok ok
:) |
| 22:26.44 |
poolio |
brlcad: are
you just giving it a look over? any tips/suggetions/etc... are
vastly appreciated |
| 22:27.36 |
brlcad |
i didn't go
that deep just yet |
| 22:27.52 |
brlcad |
it was just a
glance as I processed other e-mail :) |
| 22:27.55 |
brlcad |
sorry |
| 22:27.59 |
poolio |
ah I see. the
commits :) |
| 23:16.01 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:27.39 |
poolio |
brlcad: so I
have everything implemented in terms of spheres and I'm not
satisfied with the results. Any ideas? |
| 00:09.57 |
brlcad |
poolio: yes,
profile (gprof), valgrind, write isolated unit test cases (that
just test ONE function), and then polish your code |
| 00:10.34 |
brlcad |
those four
steps should reveal at least a few issues if not many (particularly
the isolated unit tests and valgrind) |
| 00:14.42 |
poolio |
Well, I don't
think there is really an issue. I can't see anything is wrong.
Speed is something that I could look at with profiling, but as far
as I can see it's working fine, the algorithm just isn't doing too
great |
| 00:15.02 |
brlcad |
it's not to
find an issues, that's just due diligence on any code |
| 00:15.28 |
poolio |
Wait, so
you're saying I should profile anyway? |
| 00:15.37 |
brlcad |
all code
could ideally have all four of those cases written.. and they very
OFTEN do uncover entirely unexpected issues |
| 00:15.41 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 00:15.51 |
poolio |
alright. I'll
get on that. |
| 00:16.58 |
brlcad |
plus it's
just good a exercise to get proficient in, particularly if you've
never done it |
| 00:17.24 |
brlcad |
the configure
option --enable-profile will turn on the gprof profile
flag |
| 00:17.42 |
brlcad |
use that with
debugging symbols enabled |
| 00:18.21 |
brlcad |
then run
gprof and your program name in the dir with the gmon.out log and
it'll generate a report -- see the web for some tutorials, manpage
for docs, etc .. there are a lot of options |
| 00:18.52 |
brlcad |
undoubtedly,
it will be spending a ton of time in the ray evaluation routines as
you're very much cpu-bound, but there could be some
surprises |
| 00:18.57 |
poolio |
alrighty.
there's still some code clean up that I may do first, but that
sounds good. |
| 00:19.20 |
brlcad |
i'd suggest
running valgrind before doing gprof |
| 00:19.27 |
poolio |
but I mean
shouldn't I still be going for getting better results out of the
GA? |
| 00:19.46 |
brlcad |
this will be
a good "breather" for a day or two :) |
| 00:19.49 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah
the issue with valgrind is it seperates the reports with each
thread |
| 00:20.00 |
poolio |
heh, dont
have time for a breather :) |
| 00:20.05 |
brlcad |
so run it
single threaded first :) |
| 00:20.34 |
brlcad |
there's a few
things it'll likely report in librt itself that don't clean up on
exit, and those are known/can be ignored |
| 00:20.53 |
poolio |
k |
| 00:21.11 |
brlcad |
otherwise it
should be nearly a clean/empty report |
| 00:22.09 |
brlcad |
there should
be zero "definitely lost" leaks |
| 00:22.21 |
brlcad |
even in
system libs |
| 00:23.49 |
poolio |
==14776==
ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 17 from
1) |
| 00:37.24 |
``Erik |
what's left
on the 7.10.2 checklist, yo? |
| 00:54.59 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 01:19.12 |
louipc |
is there a
point where you'll check that it builds nicely before
release? |
| 01:20.29 |
louipc |
I'd like to
check if it works on archlinux, last time it didn't work so I
didn't update the pkg. I didn't feel like patching it from heh.
:/ |
| 01:47.59 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
don't think my timer is fast enough...? |
| 04:19.07 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 08:01.27 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-29
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 08:40.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-228-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:34.20 |
Laniakea |
msg -lugs
tarzeau do you wear contact lenses? |
| 10:00.54 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 10:01.43 |
Laniakea |
omg |
| 10:11.55 |
poolio |
morning? |
| 10:11.56 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea:
sometimes? |
| 10:12.03 |
tarzeau |
Laniakea: you
got an irc problem? |
| 10:13.53 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: no I
left out the / |
| 10:14.17 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: see
query |
| 10:14.22 |
Laniakea |
(on
lugs) |
| 10:26.00 |
Laniakea |
tarzeau: do
you see my query? You are not responding |
| 10:26.12 |
tarzeau |
wait |
| 11:30.31 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-076-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:44.03 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 11:44.43 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:57.50 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@210-84-29-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:59.38 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 12:52.15 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 13:06.58 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@210-84-29-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:37.01 |
``Erik |
louipc: the
last step before release is to take the candidate tarball to a slew
of os/arch combos and make sure it compiles, runs benchmark, and
does a fistful of things in mged... which I *THINK* is what brlcad
is sorta doing now |
| 14:02.51 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-076-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:04.09 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:27.06 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/ (Makefile.am
tkCanvBezier.c): actually remove tkCanvBezier.c as it's no longer
used |
| 14:45.56 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:57.48 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
there a way to identify what data structure is eating away at the
memory? |
| 15:58.05 |
poolio |
Like I know I
have a memory leak somewhere I'm just having a hard time finding it
by hand |
| 16:02.17 |
brlcad |
depends on
the nature of the leak -- if it is a true leak, valgrind should
have found it |
| 16:03.04 |
brlcad |
what was the
rest of valgrind's report -- errors aren't the only
part |
| 16:05.14 |
poolio |
memcheck
whines about stuff internal to librt |
| 16:05.45 |
poolio |
Oh woah, it
changed since the last time I ran it |
| 16:06.30 |
poolio |
hmm. I have a
bunch of definitely lost bytes :\ |
| 16:15.56 |
``Erik |
if valgrind
and boehm don't find them, they're still reachable by something in
the frame stack |
| 16:16.57 |
poolio |
well valgrind
found some |
| 16:17.03 |
poolio |
but it
doesn't make senes |
| 16:17.04 |
poolio |
e |
| 16:19.37 |
poolio |
``Erik:
http://rafb.net/p/eCHfmb31.html |
| 16:20.26 |
brlcad |
might not
make sense but i've yet to see valgrid be wrong :) |
| 16:20.26 |
poolio |
It's saying
that rt_init_resource is leaking, but I rt_clean the resources for
sure... |
| 16:20.58 |
poolio |
Yeah
yeah |
| 16:20.58 |
brlcad |
that one is
known |
| 16:21.08 |
poolio |
alright, so
that's all normal? |
| 16:21.10 |
brlcad |
the ptbl ones
can be ignored |
| 16:21.39 |
brlcad |
there is no
counterpart to rt_init_resource |
| 16:21.47 |
brlcad |
so items it
allocated are never freed |
| 16:21.56 |
poolio |
Well that's a
big issue |
| 16:22.09 |
poolio |
Because I
re-allocate resources every time I raytrace a new
individual |
| 16:22.25 |
poolio |
what about
rt_clean_resource() ? |
| 16:22.34 |
brlcad |
that should
be fine, it releases if you call init again |
| 16:22.53 |
poolio |
so I don't
need to run rt_clean_resources() ? |
| 16:23.50 |
brlcad |
no, you
should |
| 16:24.31 |
poolio |
Ok, and what
about the rt_gettree one? |
| 16:24.58 |
brlcad |
there could
be a leak in rt_clean_resources(), I'll look into it |
| 16:25.07 |
brlcad |
that's one
that shouldn't be there |
| 16:25.36 |
poolio |
I'm calling
it so much, the leaks just get bigger and bigger |
| 16:25.48 |
brlcad |
you've not
freed the item from rt_gettree() I believe |
| 16:27.29 |
poolio |
Well, I
rt_gettree() into some rtip, and I rt_free_rti() that rtip. So
shouldn't that take care of it? |
| 16:28.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: and
this? http://rafb.net/p/vhqFb112.html |
| 16:28.50 |
brlcad |
now that's a
huge leak |
| 16:28.56 |
poolio |
shouldn't
rt_free_rti() take care of that too? |
| 16:29.52 |
poolio |
I feel like
there's something I need to do with the rtip besides
rt_free_rti() |
| 16:29.58 |
brlcad |
in general,
no -- rt_free_rti only free's the rti itself, not objects the rti
holds |
| 16:30.16 |
brlcad |
as there can
be multiple instances and other issues at play |
| 16:31.01 |
poolio |
ah alright.
So I need to somehow free the structures rt_gettree() creates as
well as rt_prep() ? |
| 16:32.42 |
brlcad |
don't know
for sure for these two cases, so I'm looking -- you take the big
one, i'll take the little one :) |
| 16:33.38 |
poolio |
alrighty |
| 16:33.42 |
brlcad |
it could be a
librt leak with certain calling order or some free not being called
that your code needs to be doing, hard to say without tracing the
leak |
| 16:34.11 |
brlcad |
make no
assumptions, just follow the memory and read the code that relates
to it |
| 16:34.25 |
poolio |
k |
| 16:37.23 |
brlcad |
er, are you
used CVS head? |
| 16:37.34 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 16:37.39 |
brlcad |
hmm.. my line
numbers aren't matching yours |
| 16:37.56 |
poolio |
Hmm, haven't
updated for a little while |
| 16:38.06 |
poolio |
guess I can
do that |
| 16:38.30 |
brlcad |
let me know
if db_tree.c updates |
| 16:40.12 |
brlcad |
louipc: I've
got clean builds so feel free to test and let me know if you have
build issues on your end |
| 16:41.03 |
brlcad |
``Erik: i've
not got a solaris on hand if you want to test them out |
| 16:41.31 |
poolio |
brlcad: yeah
it changed |
| 16:41.52 |
poolio |
brlcad: Ah, I
think it's that I hadn't updated since you changed the copyright
comments last week |
| 16:42.06 |
brlcad |
ahh,
okay |
| 16:42.15 |
brlcad |
that sounds
about right offset-wise |
| 16:42.27 |
brlcad |
new report
would be good to see |
| 16:43.40 |
poolio |
ah
wait |
| 16:43.46 |
poolio |
I need to
recompile dont I |
| 16:47.29 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.c population.c
population.h): more mutation support and cosmetics |
| 16:47.59 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 16:48.31 |
poolio |
this is gonna
take a while :) |
| 16:51.27 |
poolio |
grargh what
did I break? |
| 16:51.28 |
poolio |
make: *** No
rule to make target `m4/restore.m4', needed by `Makefile.in'.
Stop. |
| 16:59.02 |
poolio |
fixed. |
| 16:59.12 |
poolio |
brlcad: even
with rt_clean() I get the memory leaks |
| 16:59.45 |
poolio |
Which doesn'
tmake sense, it looks like rt_clean() frees _all_ the dynamic
structures inside of the rtip. |
| 17:03.08 |
Maloeran |
Valgrind,
boehm... Personally, I found that the best tool to investigate
memory leaks is a wrapper around malloc/free/realloc |
| 17:05.15 |
Maloeran |
BRL-CAD of
course has an interface on top of these, but I haven't looked if it
can be used to trace leaks |
| 17:08.56 |
Maloeran |
( The
pseudo-function to get addresses of calling functions, useful for
such debugging, is a GCC extension though ) |
| 17:20.03 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128565171.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:20.46 |
``Erik |
boehm is a
wrapper that stubs in place of
malloc/free/realloc/calloc |
| 17:24.04 |
brlcad |
libbu does
have it's own memory bounds checking that works pretty
well |
| 17:24.41 |
``Erik |
bounds, yes,
but does it retain alloc lists and look for 'forgotten'
bits? |
| 17:25.09 |
brlcad |
i tend to
prefer valgrind's even over the *alloc/free wrappers though as it
generally does a much better job and often detects things that
other approaches won't/can't |
| 17:25.49 |
``Erik |
valgrind
seems pretty married to leenewx, though |
| 17:26.00 |
``Erik |
efence,
boehm, ccmalloc, dmalloc... those're pretty portable |
| 17:28.43 |
brlcad |
sushi:~/brlcad morrison$ ./a.out 300120
malloc 20 alloc 300128 free free |
| 17:28.46 |
brlcad |
ERROR
bu_free(x300128, free) pointer bad, or not allocated with
bu_malloc! Ignored. |
| 17:29.27 |
``Erik |
ah, so bu
keeps its own malloc info ontop of the system malloc
info |
| 17:29.39 |
``Erik |
*ponder* |
| 17:30.01 |
``Erik |
free(bu_malloc()-bumallocstructsize);
hehehehe |
| 17:30.13 |
brlcad |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2661afe4 |
| 17:31.50 |
``Erik |
<-- gonna
build sunos 5.8 using gnu toolchain first, then if that works, try
sunwpro |
| 17:32.06 |
brlcad |
sounds good,
what I usually do too |
| 17:32.26 |
brlcad |
cause if
sunwpro doesn't work, not a big deal .. so long as one of the two
does easily |
| 17:33.03 |
brlcad |
and if it
just requires a few tweaks, it can always be annotated in
doc/README.Solaris |
| 17:34.27 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/castle.png |
| 17:34.30 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 17:34.57 |
``Erik |
now back in
the day, it was a beefy machine... I must be gettin' spoiled, dual
450mhz usparcIIi just seems sssssooooooo
ssssssllllllooooooowwwwwwww |
| 17:35.01 |
brlcad |
the reason
valgrind tends to do better than the wrappers is why it's
(unfortunately) linux-specific .. performance counters and other
low-level issue |
| 17:35.09 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 17:35.13 |
``Erik |
um |
| 17:35.19 |
``Erik |
there's one
in chud, right? |
| 17:35.27 |
``Erik |
not bigtop,
um, ... hrm, not saturn I don't think |
| 17:35.30 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
not too shabby either |
| 17:35.39 |
``Erik |
the
frankenstein one? |
| 17:35.44 |
brlcad |
yeah,
something like that |
| 17:35.48 |
brlcad |
two of them
actually |
| 17:35.54 |
brlcad |
one that
watches cocoa memory allocations |
| 17:36.00 |
brlcad |
another that
watches all allocations |
| 17:36.02 |
``Erik |
<-- has
used shark and the ogl profiler, not the others really |
| 17:36.11 |
``Erik |
and shark
usually from the command line |
| 17:36.17 |
brlcad |
i've only
used it a couple times to notice that it was pretty
cool |
| 17:36.28 |
brlcad |
shark from
the command line .. o.O |
| 17:36.30 |
``Erik |
shark -i
./myprog ; open *mshark |
| 17:36.36 |
brlcad |
ah,
heh |
| 17:37.11 |
poolio |
brlcad: any
luck? |
| 17:37.41 |
brlcad |
poolio: was
waiting on the new report, or did I miss it? |
| 17:37.52 |
poolio |
hehe, it's on
the way, one sec |
| 17:37.55 |
brlcad |
so line
numbers match up |
| 17:37.59 |
poolio |
yeah
sorry |
| 17:38.07 |
poolio |
make just
finished :\ |
| 17:38.09 |
brlcad |
pretty sure I
see the offsets, but I'd rather not guess |
| 17:41.19 |
poolio |
rawr! I set
the wrong prefix and now I have to rebuild. d'oh |
| 17:42.04 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 17:42.09 |
brlcad |
you don't
have to install |
| 17:42.16 |
brlcad |
you can run
in place |
| 17:42.42 |
brlcad |
just have to
be sure to wrap correctly so it doesn't pick up installed
libs |
| 17:44.09 |
poolio |
yeah but I
already uninstalled previous |
| 17:44.18 |
poolio |
and I'd like
to have it installed |
| 17:44.28 |
poolio |
so I'll just
do some more code clea up |
| 17:45.45 |
brlcad |
gah, silly
system doesn't have a functional 64-bit libX11, but *does* have
functional 64-bit libGL |
| 17:45.56 |
brlcad |
that's really
fscked up |
| 17:46.53 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 17:46.54 |
poolio |
can 64bit
libGL even function without a 64bit X11? |
| 17:47.09 |
``Erik |
if it has
another display path, sure |
| 17:52.09 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 17:52.15 |
``Erik |
"Frist
Post!!!11eleven!!!1" |
| 17:54.33 |
brlcad |
hm, probably
just need to make the OGL interface check for both ogl and x11
since it's really x11-specific |
| 17:56.26 |
poolio |
ahhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 17:56.30 |
poolio |
my laptops at
83C |
| 17:56.35 |
poolio |
my legs
burn. |
| 17:59.37 |
``Erik |
man, that
pastebin sucks, it doesn't have syntax highlighting for uh..
uhhhhh.... uhhhhhhhh.... erlang! |
| 17:59.50 |
poolio |
haha |
| 17:59.51 |
``Erik |
(damn that's
a lot of highlighting options) |
| 18:00.24 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 18:00.32 |
poolio |
brlcad:
http://rafb.net/p/w7nvet33.html |
| 18:02.19 |
brlcad |
thx |
| 18:02.29 |
``Erik |
hum, no
captcha, wonder how long before it starts seeing spam |
| 18:03.24 |
brlcad |
yeah figured
id just see how long it takes |
| 18:16.56 |
``Erik |
into
liboptical on solaris with the gnu chain |
| 18:35.58 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
really fail to see why when using rt_clean() there's still a memory
leak according to valgrind |
| 18:59.41 |
poolio |
brlcad: it's
also giving me a lot of whining about unitialized values that are
for sure initialized |
| 19:00.50 |
brlcad |
example of
one? |
| 19:01.48 |
poolio |
==20025==
Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised
value(s) |
| 19:01.48 |
poolio |
==20025==
at 0x491F397: __printf_fp (in
/lib/i686/cmov/libc-2.5.so) |
| 19:01.55 |
poolio |
... |
| 19:02.07 |
poolio |
==20025==
by 0x8049578: main (beset.c:170) |
| 19:02.47 |
poolio |
And 27 more
of those same contexts |
| 19:03.12 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.10.1.png
:) |
| 19:03.28 |
poolio |
brlcad: Can I
just pastebin the whole output? |
| 19:03.30 |
``Erik |
that smells
like gnu suckism |
| 19:03.37 |
brlcad |
poolio: yes
please |
| 19:04.25 |
poolio |
brlcad:
http://rafb.net/p/JlQa3L28.html |
| 19:05.42 |
poolio |
All of the
still reachable blocks are leaked I think |
| 19:10.59 |
poolio |
Alright, but
there's still massive memory leaks somewhere |
| 19:11.16 |
poolio |
I think the
amount of memory leaked is proportional to the population
size |
| 19:11.20 |
poolio |
that doesn't
help much though |
| 19:12.06 |
``Erik |
line 556
seems to be the biggy |
| 19:12.47 |
poolio |
You mean
566? |
| 19:12.55 |
poolio |
brlcad said
556 was known |
| 19:12.57 |
``Erik |
yes,
sorry |
| 19:13.07 |
``Erik |
the gettree
stuff |
| 19:13.12 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 19:13.20 |
poolio |
shouldn't
rt_clean() properly free that stuff? it looked like it
did |
| 19:14.07 |
``Erik |
man, solaris
is wigging out my nfs server here, heh |
| 19:15.50 |
``Erik |
huh, why is
it count+1? ( |
| 19:16.41 |
poolio |
where? |
| 19:18.49 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 19:19.02 |
poolio |
``Erik: oh,
it includes the current node as part of the count so that it plays
nicely with db_count_tree_nodes |
| 19:19.24 |
``Erik |
ah |
| 19:19.58 |
poolio |
``Erik: were
you referencing the return 1+n1+n2? |
| 19:21.28 |
``Erik |
src/librt/tree.c:233 :) |
| 19:22.06 |
poolio |
aha! so
that's never being free'd? |
| 19:22.37 |
``Erik |
prep has some
free's around there, mebbe it's missing those cases |
| 19:23.53 |
``Erik |
are you
calling rt_clean() or rt_del_regtree() ? |
| 19:24.01 |
poolio |
rt_clean() |
| 19:24.03 |
``Erik |
hrm, ye syou
are |
| 19:24.45 |
``Erik |
librt/prep.c:891 should be taking care of
that :/ |
| 19:24.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@217-162-228-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:26.42 |
``Erik |
ahhh, the +1
is to dump in a null terminator |
| 19:28.00 |
``Erik |
hummmm |
| 19:28.55 |
``Erik |
you might
hack up librt, have a static counter initialized to zero, inc it in
tree.c and dec it in prep.c and after the rt_clean, see what that #
is, then set it to 0 if you'r egoing to make another
pass? |
| 19:29.02 |
poolio |
But still,
try running the program, it goes crazy with memory, talking a
couple hundred megs |
| 19:29.37 |
poolio |
``Erik: hmm
worth a shot, I'll have a go |
| 19:29.38 |
``Erik |
to see if
you're alloc'ing different amounts? it may be that you get a failed
alloc in the middle of the alloc loop, and the dealloc stops at the
fail instead of the end? |
| 19:31.13 |
``Erik |
that's only
650k, it lists 420 megs as still reachable at the end |
| 19:31.20 |
``Erik |
heh,
accidently msg'd that to brlcad |
| 19:33.39 |
poolio |
yeah, the
420megs it's what's messed up |
| 19:33.42 |
poolio |
let me re-run
valgrind |
| 19:33.57 |
``Erik |
if it's
reachable, valgrind won't magically find it |
| 19:34.05 |
``Erik |
I mean, you
grok what it means, right? |
| 19:36.29 |
poolio |
grok? |
| 19:38.10 |
``Erik |
understand...
really well... |
| 19:39.46 |
poolio |
reachable
means there's still a pointer to it but it wasn't freed at exit,
right? |
| 19:41.59 |
poolio |
brlcad/``Erik: it looks like the big
memory leak is also related to the bu_ptbl_init |
| 19:49.46 |
``Erik |
well, it's
free'd at exit() (or, rather, _exit() or whatever exit()
calls) |
| 19:50.15 |
poolio |
yeah the
issue is it fills up my memory during run-time and I need to free
it before exit() |
| 19:50.20 |
``Erik |
but it means
that there is still a legitimate way to get to that allocated data
via the current stack, globals, or statics |
| 19:50.33 |
``Erik |
I'd hope
you're not using globals or statics |
| 19:50.46 |
poolio |
mmmmmaayyyyyyybeeeee |
| 19:50.49 |
``Erik |
I thought you
had to free it between iterations |
| 19:50.57 |
poolio |
free
what? |
| 19:51.02 |
poolio |
Well
yes |
| 19:51.06 |
poolio |
that'd be
true, during iterations |
| 19:51.07 |
``Erik |
the mountains
of iteration specific data? :) |
| 19:51.10 |
poolio |
*in-between
as you said |
| 19:51.31 |
``Erik |
having
reachable data at exit() isn't a bad thing |
| 19:51.52 |
``Erik |
no modern OS
has system leaks from os space anymore, I think an early win95 was
the last to do that |
| 19:51.52 |
poolio |
I understand,
but I have _too much_ reachable data at exit() |
| 19:52.24 |
``Erik |
is it
building up over iterations? like from not freeing iteration
specific stuff? |
| 19:53.07 |
poolio |
Seems like
it |
| 19:53.23 |
poolio |
The longer it
runs the greater the memory used |
| 19:53.39 |
poolio |
And the
amount of data the program should be using shouldn't be growing
from iteration to iteratin |
| 19:53.44 |
``Erik |
the results
you posted are from a single iteration? |
| 19:53.49 |
poolio |
no |
| 19:53.52 |
poolio |
I think there
were like 10 |
| 19:54.04 |
poolio |
I need to go
help jump my mom's car, I'll be back in a bit. |
| 20:13.22 |
poolio |
k, i'm
back |
| 20:13.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
any ideas? |
| 20:19.13 |
brlcad |
is
pop->parent[0] the best or worst after sorting |
| 20:19.44 |
poolio |
brlcad:
worst |
| 20:20.06 |
brlcad |
k |
| 20:21.26 |
``Erik |
the globals
in population.c would be my best guess for growth at this
moment... |
| 20:21.41 |
poolio |
``Erik:
Yeah...but they're just pointers |
| 20:21.59 |
poolio |
I use them
when searching for individuals to crossover or mutate |
| 20:22.13 |
``Erik |
... pointers
are what you're looking for, dude :D |
| 20:22.27 |
poolio |
well they're
pointers to things that are handled elsewhere |
| 20:23.04 |
``Erik |
mebbe write
some quick recursive 'count' functions for 'em to see the size, and
print those values between iterations? |
| 20:23.15 |
``Erik |
or null them
out between iterations so valgrind can give you better
info |
| 20:24.57 |
poolio |
Yeah that was
a really nasty solution there.. |
| 20:25.12 |
poolio |
I think when
I came up with it, it was just going to be temporary |
| 20:25.26 |
poolio |
but I don't
see a better way other than passing it as an argument |
| 20:25.28 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:27.05 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: initialize some
vars |
| 20:35.18 |
``Erik |
bah
fek |
| 20:35.21 |
poolio |
brlcad: you
fixed the comments, but just FYI the user passes a number and that
number is treated as a percentage. So it's keep upper n%, but
internally I store it as keep upper n where n != n% |
| 20:35.53 |
brlcad |
k |
| 20:36.38 |
poolio |
brlcad: so
it's a good practice to initalize my variables even if I know they
will not be used uninitialized? |
| 20:37.58 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 20:38.12 |
``Erik |
gcc's
warnings will usually flag that situation |
| 20:38.26 |
``Erik |
it's good
practice to have your CFLAGS include something like -W -Wall
-Werror -ansi -pedantic |
| 20:38.27 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:38.28 |
poolio |
yeah I test
with -Wall as well as a few others |
| 20:38.33 |
poolio |
``Erik:
:-) |
| 20:38.46 |
poolio |
sometimes I
hate -pedantic though... |
| 20:38.55 |
``Erik |
yeah, it's
so... pedantic |
| 20:39.29 |
brlcad |
it's
generally good practice as someone down the road might not
necessarily be using the same compiler, same conditions, or even
worse as the code changes over the years |
| 20:39.46 |
poolio |
lies! it
shall never change ;) |
| 20:40.12 |
brlcad |
someone edits
the code in a couple years (maybe even yourself) and those same
assumptions that "some intermediate call" happened to initialize it
may no longer hold |
| 20:40.23 |
poolio |
true
true. |
| 20:40.27 |
``Erik |
code that
never changes generally does so because no one ever uses
it... |
| 20:40.35 |
``Erik |
I mean, the
freakin' LANGUAGE changes |
| 20:40.47 |
brlcad |
sure it's a
problem down the road, but it's easy enough to just initialize,
makes debugging easier too as they're in a known state at the start
of the stack |
| 20:42.24 |
poolio |
==21574==
15,531,368 (74,128 direct, 15,457,240 indirect) bytes in 31 blocks
are definitely lost in loss record 10 of 10 |
| 20:42.28 |
poolio |
==21574==
at 0x40227EF: calloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:279) |
| 20:42.30 |
poolio |
==21574==
by 0x4759652: bu_alloc (malloc.c:284) |
| 20:42.33 |
poolio |
==21574==
by 0x4760078: bu_ptbl_init (ptbl.c:77) |
| 20:42.35 |
poolio |
==21574==
by 0x42453BD: rt_init_resource (prep.c:648 |
| 20:43.28 |
brlcad |
one step at a
time |
| 20:43.29 |
poolio |
Goes up
~1mb/s |
| 20:43.35 |
poolio |
:) |
| 20:43.46 |
brlcad |
did the
printf's go away? |
| 20:44.14 |
poolio |
no. |
| 20:44.35 |
brlcad |
so there's
still something there, I'm just not seeing it |
| 20:44.44 |
poolio |
something
where? in my stuff? |
| 20:44.53 |
brlcad |
if it was
just some glibc issue, it'd be on other printf's |
| 20:45.18 |
brlcad |
it's on a
specific one |
| 20:45.18 |
poolio |
true |
| 20:45.23 |
poolio |
it could be
possible it is uninitialized |
| 20:45.23 |
brlcad |
that's
valgrind giving you a hint |
| 20:45.28 |
poolio |
but the
program outputs reasonable results |
| 20:49.02 |
poolio |
eek. 82C.
(doing a larger run |
| 20:49.03 |
poolio |
) |
| 20:50.58 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h population.c
population.h): no need to malloc a single struct once, just use
it |
| 20:52.04 |
poolio |
fstate? |
| 20:52.54 |
brlcad |
that's
another one |
| 20:52.58 |
poolio |
brlcad:
longer run: http://rafb.net/p/JWdT8589.html |
| 20:57.32 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/population.c: some
documentation. re-initialize global vars every
iteration. |
| 20:58.42 |
poolio |
brlcad: are
you dealing with fstate? I can do that if you want |
| 21:00.56 |
brlcad |
go for
it |
| 21:01.07 |
poolio |
k |
| 21:05.16 |
poolio |
eek I broke
something. |
| 21:07.57 |
poolio |
brlcad: going
to pick up car, back in 10 |
| 21:08.11 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c): quell
several warnings |
| 21:08.14 |
brlcad |
be sure to
update, I think I missed some parens on that first
update |
| 21:08.18 |
brlcad |
cya |
| 21:20.06 |
poolio |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.56 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:42.30 |
poolio |
Bad magic
number in re_solid_btiv list |
| 23:13.53 |
brlcad |
poolio: are
you compiled optimized or debug? |
| 23:28.17 |
brlcad |
some big
issue with your usage of the resource structure, curious to see how
things look after refactoring fstate |
| 23:28.45 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:14.59 |
poolio |
brlcad: ah
crud. I thought I committed fstate, I didn't, d'oh. one
sec. |
| 00:15.15 |
poolio |
forgot to put
in password. d'oh. |
| 00:15.53 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c
population.c fitness.h): fixed some bugs recently introduced.
fstate no longer malloc'd |
| 00:17.35 |
poolio |
brlcad: hmm.
I think I'm actually compiled optimized. I'm guessing that's
bad? |
| 00:34.11 |
brlcad |
yeah, makes
debugging a lot harder |
| 00:34.19 |
brlcad |
particularly
because of inlining |
| 00:34.37 |
brlcad |
otherwise
valgrind is saying you've got stack corruption |
| 00:35.09 |
poolio |
alright, so
enable debugging when I build? |
| 00:39.53 |
poolio |
brlcad: when
I enabled debug nothing changed... I guess it was already
enabled? |
| 00:41.39 |
brlcad |
debug is
enabled by default |
| 00:41.49 |
brlcad |
there is that
summary at the end, it tells you what you have :) |
| 00:41.56 |
poolio |
yeah yeah
:P |
| 00:42.00 |
brlcad |
it's also in
your config.log near the end |
| 00:42.10 |
poolio |
So debug is
enabled, as well as optimized |
| 00:42.32 |
brlcad |
so
disable-optimized |
| 00:42.58 |
brlcad |
or keep a
separate tree |
| 00:43.07 |
brlcad |
since it
takes your box a while to recompile |
| 00:43.18 |
brlcad |
and you
probably want optimized for the test runs |
| 00:44.51 |
poolio |
ugh
:\ |
| 00:45.44 |
poolio |
brlcad: k,
ill copy the directory and build without optimized, then get back
to you when that's done. |
| 00:46.24 |
brlcad |
see ya in an
hour :) |
| 00:53.36 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 00:57.04 |
louipc |
when I try to
display spkr.s from radio.g mged exits |
| 00:58.25 |
brlcad |
your radio.g
that you made presumably? |
| 00:59.44 |
louipc |
oh yeah I
guess I must have made it long ago from the tutorial |
| 01:00.01 |
louipc |
actually it's
not specific to that file I tried something else |
| 01:02.08 |
poolio |
brlcad: my
laptop is melting. :( |
| 01:02.44 |
brlcad |
louipc: can
you display anything? |
| 01:02.51 |
brlcad |
poolio: how
about a fan? :) |
| 01:03.18 |
brlcad |
my old laptop
used to get so hot, I kept a small fan blowing on it all the
time |
| 01:03.58 |
poolio |
brlcad: hmm.
where? the underside? |
| 01:04.22 |
louipc |
brlcad: yeah
I was able to display the antenna and then I tried the spkr then it
exited I will try in classic mode |
| 01:05.42 |
brlcad |
poolio: no,
just blowing across the keys is often enough to strip away the
heat |
| 01:06.00 |
brlcad |
takes a few
minutes of course, but it does the trick |
| 01:06.32 |
brlcad |
louipc: cool,
I suspect it's crashing for some reason -- if you can reproduce it
in classic, try doing it through gdb in classic |
| 01:06.57 |
poolio |
brlcad: not
bad. 13 minutes to compile. |
| 01:10.28 |
poolio |
brlcad:
http://rafb.net/p/GdkYhX91.html |
| 01:10.56 |
louipc |
yep same
stuff. classic at least tells me 'Illegal Instruction' before
quitting |
| 01:11.20 |
brlcad |
poolio: did
you leave off all the preceeding or was that
everything? |
| 01:11.48 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
left off preceeding |
| 01:11.54 |
poolio |
brlcad:
here's with --show-reachable also http://rafb.net/p/IgdRHb93.html |
| 01:12.10 |
poolio |
Note: all the
previous errors happen before the main generation loop |
| 01:12.28 |
brlcad |
i mean like
the printf stuff |
| 01:12.36 |
poolio |
yeah one
sec |
| 01:12.39 |
poolio |
that shows up
before the program output |
| 01:12.50 |
brlcad |
that's okay,
it's still saying there's a potential problem |
| 01:13.06 |
poolio |
lemme just
copy it all :) |
| 01:13.07 |
brlcad |
it's like
compilation errors/warnings, should take care of them in
order |
| 01:13.11 |
brlcad |
as many
cascade |
| 01:13.28 |
poolio |
would you
like --show-reachable or no? |
| 01:15.04 |
brlcad |
doesn't
matter yet |
| 01:15.08 |
brlcad |
default
output is fine |
| 01:15.13 |
poolio |
k |
| 01:15.21 |
poolio |
so you dont
even want --leak-check? |
| 01:16.05 |
brlcad |
leave them
both in |
| 01:16.14 |
brlcad |
shouldn't
matter, there's plenty to work with :) |
| 01:16.28 |
brlcad |
each one of
those could take an hour or 30 seconds |
| 01:16.34 |
brlcad |
or
longer |
| 01:16.41 |
poolio |
eeeek. |
| 01:17.12 |
poolio |
brlcad:
http://poolio.org/~poolio/valgrind_output |
| 01:17.14 |
brlcad |
the ptbl one
is surprising -- it should leave a few bytes, but certainly not
accummulate like that |
| 01:17.34 |
poolio |
well remember
how many times I'm calling everything...a whole hell of a
lot |
| 01:18.08 |
poolio |
note: that's
the output from a run with pop size of 20, 50 generations, and
10x10 rays |
| 01:18.47 |
brlcad |
I know, but
when I said it was a "known issue", it's only known that there is a
final allocation that is not freed until exit |
| 01:18.55 |
poolio |
ah I
see |
| 01:19.00 |
brlcad |
even
subsequent calls to init should clear out the previous |
| 01:19.10 |
brlcad |
so either
there is a call missing or a leak in the library |
| 01:19.24 |
brlcad |
i'd still
start from the top of that list, though |
| 01:20.09 |
brlcad |
are you up to
date and commited? |
| 01:20.36 |
poolio |
yep. |
| 01:21.58 |
louipc |
in spkr.s tor
16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1 |
| 01:22.10 |
louipc |
that causes
mged to quit with "Illegal Instruction" |
| 01:22.56 |
brlcad |
louipc:
that's working fine for me here |
| 01:23.18 |
brlcad |
what version
are you on? |
| 01:23.26 |
brlcad |
cvs
head? |
| 01:23.38 |
louipc |
yea |
| 01:23.52 |
brlcad |
stack
trace? |
| 01:24.13 |
brlcad |
gdb --args
mged -c test.g in spkr.s tor 16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1 |
| 01:24.18 |
brlcad |
run |
| 01:24.19 |
brlcad |
bt |
| 01:24.26 |
brlcad |
pastebin
:) |
| 01:25.49 |
louipc |
ahh I was
trying to figure that out |
| 01:32.31 |
louipc |
hopefully
that's useful :) http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11583 |
| 01:33.29 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 01:33.29 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
remove the 'automatic flags' configure option (royal pita to keep
track of |
| 01:33.29 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
cleanly in the configure logic for trivial gain) for now; rename
the aquatk |
| 01:33.29 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
configure option to be consistent with the others and make it
actually pass that |
| 01:33.29 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD: on
to tk's configure; and add a proper JavaVM framework check, using
it instead |
| 01:33.31 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD: of a
platform test. |
| 01:36.50 |
brlcad |
hm,
interesting trace .. it's trying to draw the tor so it did make
it |
| 01:37.43 |
poolio |
brlcad: do
you have time now to go over the valgrind output or would you
rather do it later? (I have some other things to do that are
flexible but I'd rather not just sit around :)) |
| 01:37.47 |
brlcad |
poolio: if
you add this to main, is there still the qsort in the
output: |
| 01:37.47 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 01:37.53 |
poolio |
ah k, one
sec. |
| 01:38.43 |
brlcad |
it's really
odd that it's whining about uninitialized values -- there's only
three params |
| 01:38.49 |
brlcad |
pop and the
function |
| 01:39.03 |
brlcad |
so I'm
thinking it's pop |
| 01:39.25 |
brlcad |
and the
conditional is the fact that pop_init() could conceivably be
overridden at run-time |
| 01:39.39 |
brlcad |
that would
then explain printf as well |
| 01:40.46 |
poolio |
brlcad: err
nope. |
| 01:40.56 |
brlcad |
seriously?
damn. |
| 01:41.10 |
poolio |
unless I'm
executin the wrong binary |
| 01:41.28 |
brlcad |
how are you
running it? |
| 01:41.36 |
poolio |
valgrind
.libs/beset |
| 01:41.52 |
brlcad |
eepish |
| 01:42.04 |
brlcad |
ldd
.libs/beset |
| 01:42.23 |
poolio |
you desire
that output |
| 01:42.23 |
poolio |
? |
| 01:42.38 |
brlcad |
you have to
wrap (so either adding valgrind to the wrapper script or setting
ld_lib manually |
| 01:42.50 |
brlcad |
I suspect it
says /usr/brlcad/... |
| 01:42.57 |
poolio |
nope |
| 01:43.05 |
poolio |
I have them
in /usr/lib |
| 01:43.10 |
poolio |
--prefix=/usr |
| 01:43.11 |
poolio |
I'm lazy like
that. |
| 01:43.14 |
brlcad |
okay,
whatever your prefix is |
| 01:43.29 |
brlcad |
you know that
will clobber some of your system libs on most linux
systems |
| 01:43.40 |
louipc |
:D |
| 01:43.42 |
poolio |
Probalby, but
I'm reinstalling the distro when I'm done working |
| 01:43.49 |
poolio |
So it doesn't
really matter much |
| 01:43.57 |
poolio |
good to knwo
though :) |
| 01:44.18 |
brlcad |
the most
common is usually librt |
| 01:44.43 |
brlcad |
which is a
deprecated "real time compatibility" library that they've been
planning to ditch for many years |
| 01:44.56 |
brlcad |
our librt
predates them by about a decade too, but that's just the way things
are |
| 01:45.31 |
brlcad |
similarly
libbu and libbn conflict with some packages like curl also has a
(private yet installed) "big number" library named the
same |
| 01:45.53 |
brlcad |
er, not curl
.. maybe openssl, one of those guys |
| 01:46.03 |
poolio |
fight it out
for rights to library names |
| 01:46.03 |
brlcad |
and a handful
of others |
| 01:46.29 |
brlcad |
oh, we've
stood our ground to date, though it does make integration with
package management systems complicated |
| 01:47.41 |
brlcad |
plus we
really can't for the core libraries for many many reasons (and that
includes the most often conflicting, libbu, libbn,
librt) |
| 01:49.32 |
brlcad |
louipc: did
you compile with -ffast-math? |
| 01:49.50 |
brlcad |
I see that
it's optimized, I'm wondering if it's bad math juju |
| 01:52.38 |
poolio |
brlcad:
pardon my lack of bash scripting, but what exactly does ${1+"$@"}
do? an array of |
| 01:52.49 |
poolio |
$@ is
arguments? |
| 01:57.27 |
poolio |
ah I
see |
| 01:58.37 |
brlcad |
it's just a
quirky way of expanding the arguments |
| 01:58.49 |
brlcad |
"$@" expands
to the command line arguments |
| 02:00.50 |
brlcad |
it makes more
since if it includes the : |
| 02:01.02 |
brlcad |
i.e.
${1:+"$@"} |
| 02:01.08 |
poolio |
brlcad: no
change |
| 02:01.25 |
brlcad |
which means
.. "if it has $1 set, then substitute $@" |
| 02:01.50 |
poolio |
yeah, I got
the clue when I changed it and it sad bad substitution |
| 02:01.53 |
poolio |
s/sad/said |
| 02:02.03 |
brlcad |
$@ is
basically $1 $2 $3 $4 ... |
| 02:02.33 |
brlcad |
so it's kinda
fruity to do it that way, but it probably matters for some old
system if someone did it that way |
| 02:02.37 |
poolio |
brlcad:
http://poolio.org/~poolio/val |
| 02:03.08 |
brlcad |
ooh, i don't
think i noticed cmd_ind before |
| 02:03.25 |
poolio |
cmp_ind? |
| 02:03.35 |
poolio |
it was there.
same output :) |
| 02:04.27 |
brlcad |
yeah, I see
it now |
| 02:05.04 |
brlcad |
so it's
basically saying either the pop element is potentially
uninitialized for some reason, or fitness specificially
is |
| 02:05.16 |
brlcad |
that's.. |
| 02:05.19 |
brlcad |
odd |
| 02:06.15 |
brlcad |
er, not pop..
pop.parent |
| 02:06.21 |
poolio |
well it's
potentially true if pop_spawn() wasn't called |
| 02:06.37 |
poolio |
pop.parent is
alloc'ed but none of the variables are intiialized until
pop_spawn() is called |
| 02:17.16 |
poolio |
brlcad: you
might want to try running valgrind locally....I may have just
royally fscked something on my end |
| 02:19.56 |
brlcad |
i was about
to actually, to see if I can reproduce it |
| 02:20.02 |
brlcad |
what's your
inputs look like? |
| 02:20.09 |
poolio |
./beset
source.g test.r |
| 02:20.30 |
poolio |
source.g is
the database that contains test.r |
| 02:20.41 |
poolio |
test.r is
just a region with two spheres unioned together |
| 02:20.54 |
brlcad |
louipc:
looking at that function, the only thing I can see *might* be a
problem is if you had non-ieee floating point -- do you have your
config.log from the compile on hand somewhere? |
| 02:21.18 |
poolio |
Any region
should do |
| 02:21.18 |
poolio |
in any
database |
| 02:21.18 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 02:21.18 |
brlcad |
so no
population sizes or iteration counts |
| 02:21.52 |
poolio |
it defaults
to 50 pop size, i think 20 generations, and a resolution of 10x10,
(doesnt kill/keep any lower/upper) |
| 02:22.00 |
poolio |
hmm |
| 02:22.10 |
poolio |
lemme update
options documentation, forget the -u -l |
| 02:27.28 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: documented -u and -l
options |
| 02:45.29 |
poolio |
brlcad: no
luck? |
| 02:45.49 |
poolio |
ah alright
:) |
| 02:46.27 |
brlcad |
(whilst
shaiking fist at louipc..) |
| 02:48.05 |
brlcad |
he either
uncovered something rather surprising that hasn't come up in at
least a decade, or something entirely different is going on with
that crash |
| 02:48.58 |
brlcad |
either way, I
have to rebuild now cause of core changes |
| 02:58.21 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 03:44.41 |
poolio |
brlcad: sorry
to keep bugging you, I'm just kind of clueless as to what to do
from here... it seems like there is some sort of overflow somewhere
but it doesn't make much sense and I feel like it'd be segfaulting
if that was the case |
| 03:45.17 |
louipc |
brlcad: I
rebuilt with debugging symbols and made a more detailed trace
http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11584 |
| 03:57.02 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754591.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:30.22 |
poolio |
tis not
possible! brlcad left :o |
| 06:15.10 |
*** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:16.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:14.45 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 12:25.32 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-92-250.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:10.50 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 13:10.55 |
``Erik |
all your
connection are belong to me |
| 13:26.13 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:13.05 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-025-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:10.43 |
poolio |
brlcad:
anything? |
| 17:14.29 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) |
| 17:31.41 |
``Erik |
BRL-CAD runs
on solaris 5.8 with the gnu build chain, just ran mged and did a
few traces of sphflake |
| 17:41.09 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 17:42.39 |
PrezKennedy |
shazaam! |
| 17:44.46 |
poolio |
``Erik: you
know where brlcad has disappeared to? |
| 17:45.30 |
PrezKennedy |
he is among
us! a commoner :-O |
| 17:47.47 |
``Erik |
ummmm |
| 17:49.29 |
``Erik |
lets see, on
saturday he's flying, which means today he's holed up and out of
site tying to push 7.10.2 out the door |
| 17:49.37 |
``Erik |
out of
sight |
| 17:49.46 |
poolio |
crap. |
| 17:49.57 |
``Erik |
anything I
can do for ya? |
| 17:50.26 |
poolio |
``Erik: if
you have the time, I've got some odd leaks...The issue is that I'm
trying to do larger test runs...and it leaks so much that it locks
my system up (uses up all memory and swap) |
| 17:50.29 |
``Erik |
<-- not as
versed in the finer guts of the package, but likes to pretend he's
not a complete retard once in a while |
| 17:50.47 |
poolio |
``Erik: eh,
you know much more than I do, any help would be appreciated, I'm
pretty stuck |
| 17:50.49 |
``Erik |
is valgrind
reporting it as reachable memory? |
| 17:50.59 |
poolio |
``Erik:
valgrind output is here: http://poolio.org/files/val |
| 17:51.09 |
poolio |
``Erik: some
of it, a lot of it is lost |
| 17:52.13 |
``Erik |
10-13m lost,
5 reachable |
| 17:52.15 |
``Erik |
um |
| 17:52.32 |
``Erik |
what if you
do what it says on the last line and run i with --leak-check=full ?
:D |
| 17:52.40 |
poolio |
yeah
sure |
| 17:53.32 |
poolio |
maybe? not
sure. changes from run to run so it's probably pid |
| 17:53.53 |
``Erik |
<--
generally only touches linux when porting, so is not that familiar
with valgrind |
| 17:54.00 |
``Erik |
as my rant
yesterday may've indicated :) |
| 17:54.11 |
poolio |
:) if you
want you could use whatever you use on it locally |
| 17:54.45 |
poolio |
it's in cvs
src/gtools/beset |
| 17:55.05 |
``Erik |
<-- has no
source data or clue of how to use it :) |
| 17:55.15 |
``Erik |
also; when I
try compiling it with my happy flags, it breaks like a
mofo |
| 17:55.49 |
poolio |
source data
is simple |
| 17:55.53 |
poolio |
a database,
with a region in it |
| 17:55.55 |
poolio |
that's all it
needs |
| 17:56.23 |
poolio |
``Erik: oh
yeah. I can probably fix that. What flags are you using again?
(relevant pedantic/warnings etc..) |
| 17:56.27 |
``Erik |
so I could
make a sphere or metaball and just use that? your code voxelizes
and then tries to regenerate the initail data from the voxelized
set? |
| 17:58.12 |
``Erik |
-W -Wall
-Werror -ansi -pedantic -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common
-fexceptions -O3 -march=opteron |
| 17:58.15 |
``Erik |
or
so |
| 17:58.40 |
poolio |
Jah :) Not
exactly voxelized but close enough. It stores the rays |
| 17:59.17 |
``Erik |
well, that's
one mechanism for voxelizing |
| 17:59.49 |
``Erik |
no one said
it has to be a regular grid... indeed, many have moved to irregular
tetrahedral grids |
| 17:59.59 |
poolio |
ah alright,
then yes. |
| 18:00.34 |
poolio |
``Erik: oh,
the issue is my use of // ... that's not in C89 I think |
| 18:00.53 |
``Erik |
no, // was
introduced in c99 |
| 18:01.02 |
``Erik |
and we're
still c89 ansi for the most part |
| 18:01.27 |
``Erik |
I did a sed
-i.bak 's,//.*,,' *.[ch] the other day and still got build errors,
iirc |
| 18:01.28 |
poolio |
Alright,
brlcad said it was fine though, and I'm too lazy to change thar
gith now. Most of the // comments are ones that are temporary while
it's in active development. |
| 18:01.36 |
``Erik |
using
gcc42 |
| 18:01.59 |
poolio |
well I might
have some weird comments that are in odd forms |
| 18:02.18 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 18:02.30 |
``Erik |
initially, I
did something like s,//\(.*\),/* \1 */, |
| 18:02.42 |
``Erik |
but was
foiled by things that looked like // blah /* something
*/ |
| 18:02.55 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 18:04.04 |
poolio |
``Erik: if
you kill ansi and pedantic because of comments, and just use -W
-Wall it works fine (there's some unused variable warnings that
don't make sense to change) |
| 18:04.08 |
poolio |
well unused
parameter |
| 18:07.58 |
``Erik |
I can do it
without the gooby flags, I mostly said that to piss ya off
;) |
| 18:08.27 |
poolio |
well, it's a
good point. It will be cleaned up at some time. But it'd be great
if you killed off your handy dandy flags and just let it build for
now. |
| 18:08.37 |
``Erik |
running an
update now, but it'ts going vvvveeeerrrrryyyy slow. for some
reason, my mac doesn't like tlaking nfs to my nfs server so much
the last couple days |
| 18:08.54 |
poolio |
sorry |
| 18:09.37 |
``Erik |
and the boy
changed configure.ac, so I'll have to sit around waiting for
autoregen after the update *sigh* |
| 18:09.46 |
poolio |
oh
geez |
| 18:09.51 |
poolio |
cya in a
couple days ;) |
| 18:10.53 |
``Erik |
won't take
QUITE that long |
| 18:10.57 |
``Erik |
but won't
exactly be instance :/ |
| 18:11.26 |
``Erik |
instant |
| 18:11.33 |
``Erik |
too much wow
:( I suck |
| 18:11.44 |
poolio |
You play
WoW? |
| 18:12.25 |
``Erik |
yes
:( |
| 18:12.29 |
``Erik |
gf made me,
now I'm hooked |
| 18:12.43 |
``Erik |
ffs, 3
instances of 'scrub' running on the same fs at the same time,
wtf |
| 18:13.01 |
poolio |
Wait wait.
Your girlfriend made you play WoW? That's awful. Quit while you
still can |
| 18:13.53 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 18:14.07 |
``Erik |
she was
pissed at me yesterday cuz I kept playing wow |
| 18:14.23 |
``Erik |
and my lower
level char is higher than her high level one |
| 18:14.52 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-106-16.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:15.45 |
poolio |
Quit. |
| 18:17.01 |
PrezKennedy |
wow
sucks... |
| 18:17.21 |
PrezKennedy |
just had to
get that out there ;-) |
| 18:17.22 |
``Erik |
you
suck |
| 18:17.31 |
``Erik |
I'd say your
mom sucks, but she's cool :/ so I can't do that |
| 18:17.47 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 18:17.58 |
PrezKennedy |
haha |
| 18:18.46 |
``Erik |
(also; ben,
my big tool for finding and fixing major leaks is "don't put them
in there in thte first place" :D ) |
| 18:18.54 |
``Erik |
debugging is
a pain, so don't put the bugs in |
| 18:19.19 |
poolio |
Thanks
``Erik, maybe some day I'll be a better coder. |
| 18:19.44 |
``Erik |
what's a good
object to get your freaky behavior? is a sphere
sufficient? |
| 18:19.53 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 18:20.00 |
poolio |
it's not
caused by the input data |
| 18:20.10 |
``Erik |
<-- has
been coding for 24 years, is still trying to be a better
coder |
| 18:21.24 |
Laniakea |
``Erik: how
old are you? |
| 18:22.41 |
poolio |
Run it like
./beset db.g region.r |
| 18:23.11 |
``Erik |
ancient
:( |
| 18:23.43 |
``Erik |
not as old as
john, though |
| 18:23.49 |
``Erik |
<-- about
to turn 31 |
| 18:29.06 |
``Erik |
hum,
ok |
| 18:29.12 |
``Erik |
it ran in .25
seconds O.o |
| 18:29.21 |
poolio |
``Erik: oh
yeah, so if you want it to run longer |
| 18:29.27 |
poolio |
specificy
some options to do so |
| 18:29.28 |
poolio |
so |
| 18:29.38 |
poolio |
./beset -p
300 -g 100 -r 32 db.g region.r |
| 18:29.45 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:29.47 |
poolio |
./beset for
documentation |
| 18:29.49 |
``Erik |
I did -p 1000
-g 1000 |
| 18:29.53 |
poolio |
errr |
| 18:30.03 |
poolio |
i mean, I
have a slow laptop, so you might be able to take that |
| 18:30.03 |
``Erik |
tat slows it
down enough to watch it grow |
| 18:30.12 |
``Erik |
quad opteron
2.0ghz with 8g ram |
| 18:30.20 |
``Erik |
I figured I
wanted a slower machine to do it on |
| 18:30.21 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 18:30.23 |
poolio |
yeah fair
enough, I'm just not sure how to exit gracefully and have valgrind
catch it? |
| 18:30.31 |
``Erik |
no valgrind,
not linux |
| 18:30.31 |
poolio |
...that's
slow? rawr. |
| 18:30.41 |
``Erik |
the linux
boxes are 8 core |
| 18:30.43 |
``Erik |
is this
threaded? |
| 18:30.50 |
``Erik |
doesn't look
like it |
| 18:30.51 |
poolio |
it was, I
disabled the threading for testing |
| 18:31.10 |
poolio |
the codes in
there, just commented out for now while I try to fix these
leaks |
| 18:31.47 |
``Erik |
ok, -p 1000
-g 10 takes 3sec, that should be sufficient |
| 18:32.00 |
poolio |
k
:) |
| 18:32.24 |
poolio |
3 seconds?
geez man. |
| 18:32.27 |
poolio |
well I'm not
running optimized |
| 18:33.32 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 18:33.36 |
``Erik |
beset in
free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense |
| 18:33.48 |
poolio |
where in
beset? |
| 18:34.15 |
``Erik |
heh, doesn't
say, gonna add some stuf fin... happens at the very
beginning |
| 18:34.39 |
poolio |
hmm
alright |
| 18:34.46 |
poolio |
(no frees are
directly called by beset.c) |
| 18:35.07 |
``Erik |
no bound
overwrites |
| 18:35.26 |
poolio |
that's good.
does that mean there can't be any stack overflow? |
| 18:35.32 |
poolio |
well stack
corruption |
| 18:35.58 |
``Erik |
I'd
assume |
| 18:36.35 |
``Erik |
boehm seems
to crash |
| 18:36.44 |
``Erik |
probably from
that pointer error |
| 18:37.03 |
poolio |
the free()
one? |
| 18:37.22 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 18:37.44 |
poolio |
can you
specify more t han free() in beset? there aren't any direct free()s
called in beset.c is there a backtrace for it or
something? |
| 18:38.04 |
``Erik |
no backtrace,
unfortunately |
| 18:38.26 |
poolio |
so the only
thing youc an say is there's some bogus pointer being free()'d
somewhere near the beginning of the program? |
| 18:39.09 |
poolio |
Could I
narrow that down by adding some printf debugging output at certain
intervals in between routines? |
| 18:39.31 |
``Erik |
I can add
those, just sit tight a few, I'm getting some environments rigged
up |
| 18:39.32 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 18:39.37 |
poolio |
Alright
thanks |
| 18:39.51 |
poolio |
Oh
wait...here's a big idea. Do I need to free the partition and
segments list passed to the a_hit routine? |
| 18:42.34 |
``Erik |
the junk
pointer stuff is at _init() time :/ |
| 18:43.24 |
``Erik |
uhmmmm, hrm,
I'm not sure :) |
| 18:44.09 |
``Erik |
I don't THINK
so, but I'm not sure |
| 18:44.11 |
poolio |
So I really
have no control over the junk pointer you're talking about
right? |
| 18:44.56 |
``Erik |
right |
| 18:45.11 |
poolio |
It doesn't
look like I need to clean up the partitions/segments. g_qa
doesn't |
| 18:45.26 |
poolio |
That's what I
based the raytracing section of beset off of |
| 18:46.14 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 19:11.55 |
poolio |
hmm |
| 19:12.11 |
poolio |
I have some
ideas for optimizations, but none for fixing the leaky software
:P |
| 19:12.44 |
``Erik |
how
irritating, valgrind doesn't lilke amd64 |
| 19:12.50 |
``Erik |
it seems it's
JUST for i386 linux |
| 19:13.33 |
``Erik |
and opennurbs
sucks big hairy goat balls and has my mac build all plugged
up |
| 19:13.44 |
poolio |
sorry |
| 19:16.52 |
``Erik |
what
if; |
| 19:17.15 |
``Erik |
add externs
in beset.c, then at the beginning of the loop in beset.c, null them
out... and see if valgrind hleps there? |
| 19:17.20 |
``Erik |
or did you
try that already? |
| 19:17.41 |
poolio |
well, I null
them at the beginning of pop_gop |
| 19:17.46 |
poolio |
so they are
nulled each iteration |
| 19:17.53 |
poolio |
(before they
are used) |
| 19:19.49 |
``Erik |
hrmmmm |
| 19:24.04 |
poolio |
``Erik: I
just updated CVS if you want to try it |
| 19:24.13 |
poolio |
also now you
fun flags will work (except -Werror) |
| 19:24.28 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (6 files): now conforms to
C89 |
| 19:52.36 |
``Erik |
hrmmmm |
| 19:52.50 |
``Erik |
it doesn't
look like the allocs that are leaking are in
src/gtools/beset |
| 19:58.44 |
``Erik |
hummmmm |
| 19:58.53 |
``Erik |
iiiinteresting, |
| 19:59.07 |
``Erik |
are any of
these numbers magic? 36 4.5 2.25 |
| 20:07.52 |
poolio |
``Erik: errr,
not as far as I know |
| 20:08.55 |
poolio |
``Erik: I
remember brlcad saying something about bu_ptbl_init...maybe
there? |
| 20:09.26 |
``Erik |
hrm |
| 20:09.40 |
``Erik |
there're 36
retained records for -p 1 -g 1 |
| 20:10.09 |
``Erik |
when I bump
it to -p 10 -g 1, it's 2.25x, and -p 1 -g 10 is 4.5x |
| 20:10.25 |
poolio |
weird |
| 20:11.05 |
``Erik |
(and
obviously, 2.25*2=4.5 |
| 20:11.06 |
``Erik |
) |
| 20:11.33 |
``Erik |
(also; I
wouldn't rule out g_qa leaking like a seive) |
| 20:11.39 |
poolio |
heh
alright] |
| 20:12.22 |
poolio |
Something to
note, -p 1 - g 1 doesn't do anything in terms of the GA. It spawns
a population, saves that to a database, and exits. |
| 20:12.40 |
poolio |
well -p 1
means it'll just spawn one individual and save it to a database and
exit |
| 20:12.41 |
``Erik |
ok, right,
because g-1 |
| 20:12.50 |
``Erik |
so -g 10 does
0-8 |
| 20:12.57 |
``Erik |
which
seems... odd |
| 20:12.58 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:13.00 |
poolio |
well |
| 20:13.04 |
poolio |
it does
0-9 |
| 20:13.06 |
poolio |
(geenrates
the population) |
| 20:13.11 |
poolio |
but we dont
evaluate the fitness for the last generation |
| 20:13.19 |
``Erik |
okie |
| 20:13.22 |
``Erik |
well |
| 20:13.31 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 20:13.36 |
poolio |
It has to do
with the way the loop is worked |
| 20:13.45 |
``Erik |
if -p 10 -g 1
shows growth |
| 20:13.59 |
``Erik |
I'd assume
that might mean your leak might possibly be in your population
generation |
| 20:14.11 |
``Erik |
maybe |
| 20:14.26 |
poolio |
spawn_first_generation();
for(each_generation){evaluate fitness of previous and spawn new
generation} |
| 20:14.46 |
poolio |
Seems so, let
me check. |
| 20:15.16 |
poolio |
ah d'oh.
there is leakage there |
| 20:15.19 |
poolio |
let me fix
that up |
| 20:15.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Apathy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 20:15.47 |
poolio |
I don't think
mk_sph would (I think cleanup of the db ointer would do
that) |
| 20:16.01 |
poolio |
mk_addmember
might |
| 20:16.11 |
poolio |
well that'd
be part of the wm_hd list cleanup I'm about to write |
| 20:17.47 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601569.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:18.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-106-16.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 20:18.02 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-29
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 20:18.18 |
IriX64 |
testing found
this ---> http://rafb.net/p/GJBQ0l79.html |
| 20:18.58 |
``Erik |
yeah, it's in
src/other so it's someone elses problem... there're a fistful of
those in our code, too, I think |
| 20:19.24 |
IriX64 |
thankyou |
| 20:19.35 |
IriX64 |
i'll fix my
copy :) |
| 20:20.02 |
poolio |
``Erik: none
of the code in proc_db cleans up the wm_hd lists |
| 20:20.22 |
poolio |
I don't think
it needs to be actually... but I'll try anyway |
| 20:20.40 |
IriX64 |
invoke
mr_clean() :) |
| 20:21.55 |
IriX64 |
ahem, i
return to my own trials and tribulations, sorry poolio
:) |
| 20:22.04 |
poolio |
:( |
| 20:23.14 |
``Erik |
poolio, it's
highly possible that a lot of this stuff expects only one run and
does not clean up, assuming the OS will clean up at exit... :/
you're presenting a unique challenge to the framework
:) |
| 20:23.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-106-16.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 20:23.42 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-29
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 20:24.54 |
poolio |
``Erik: argh.
Also: there's no de-init needed in pop_spawn() with the wm_hd...all
of it should clean itself up at the end of the routine |
| 20:25.17 |
``Erik |
once I have a
re-done build |
| 20:25.23 |
``Erik |
I'm going to
commit grave fugliness |
| 20:25.29 |
poolio |
ah. which
is? |
| 20:25.40 |
``Erik |
and tap it
with a debugger to see if I can get a stack trace on one of those
leak points |
| 20:25.53 |
poolio |
alright,
you're over my head. thanks a ton for the help |
| 20:26.00 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:26.19 |
``Erik |
I have the
addresses of the un-freed things |
| 20:26.38 |
``Erik |
I'm going to
put something in bu_malloc() that searches for some of those
addresses |
| 20:26.53 |
``Erik |
"if the
pointer happens to be 0x080c2351, break to debugger" |
| 20:26.54 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:26.57 |
``Erik |
hopefully it
works |
| 20:26.58 |
poolio |
wow |
| 20:27.01 |
poolio |
that is
really friggin fugly. |
| 20:27.11 |
``Erik |
<-- king
of ugly |
| 20:27.22 |
``Erik |
but sometimes
it works, then I look godlike :D |
| 20:27.34 |
poolio |
hehe |
| 20:28.03 |
poolio |
so you don't
think the leaks have to do with anything I could fix in
beset? |
| 20:28.08 |
``Erik |
well |
| 20:28.12 |
``Erik |
they're not
actually leaks |
| 20:28.28 |
``Erik |
just not
freed when they should be... there's still a path to
them |
| 20:28.44 |
poolio |
wait |
| 20:29.06 |
poolio |
so most of
the memory leaks are reachable things that were allocated in the
stack and weren't properly freed when their respective routines
exited? |
| 20:30.07 |
``Erik |
no |
| 20:30.30 |
``Erik |
only active
frames of the stack are considered |
| 20:30.48 |
``Erik |
otherwise,
valgrind SHOULD see it as an omfg leak |
| 20:30.54 |
poolio |
heh
alright |
| 20:37.47 |
IriX64 |
mc |
| 20:43.02 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 20:51.26 |
``Erik |
iiiinteresting |
| 20:51.46 |
``Erik |
oi,
lee |
| 20:53.03 |
iraytrace |
Evenin |
| 20:53.13 |
``Erik |
the first one
is in rt_gettree() |
| 20:55.52 |
poolio |
maybe lee can
fix all the bugs. :) |
| 20:56.12 |
poolio |
is this big
boss man lee? |
| 20:56.36 |
``Erik |
no, this is
whipping boy expatiate lee :) |
| 20:57.08 |
iraytrace |
He's got
*that* right. |
| 20:57.32 |
poolio |
ouch. |
| 20:57.34 |
iraytrace |
poolio: It's
great too see what you've been doing |
| 20:57.39 |
``Erik |
so your
report was sat on past the deadline? |
| 20:57.50 |
iraytrace |
:-( |
| 20:58.00 |
iraytrace |
There's more
to it than just that |
| 20:58.24 |
poolio |
iraytrace:
thanks. It's been quite slow and frustrating though. I expected to
be so much further so much faster. |
| 20:58.53 |
``Erik |
poolio, this
is what I'm looking at now, as the 'first possible culprit':
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d43fc0cc6 |
| 20:59.13 |
poolio |
valgrind
picked that up |
| 20:59.26 |
poolio |
let me find
the valgrind snippet |
| 20:59.31 |
poolio |
(not in that
much detail of course) |
| 21:02.15 |
poolio |
``Erik:
http://rafb.net/p/McsUKV59.html
<-- valgrind gets it too |
| 21:04.07 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 21:05.03 |
poolio |
hmm |
| 21:05.57 |
poolio |
so another
possibility, I remember brlcad talking about offsets in the
internal objects. I currently write the same internal object from
one database into the next database without modifying the internal
object in any way (just creating a new directory in the new
database). Is there something i need to do to the rt_db_internal
structure before I write it out to the new database? |
| 21:06.20 |
``Erik |
<-- has no
idea |
| 21:07.01 |
poolio |
hmm. I think
it's not that. I feel like that would manifest itself as collisions
between to rt_db_internal structs with the same offset and blow up.
But it appears that the code works fine aside from the
leaks. |
| 21:08.01 |
poolio |
(and the
databases aren't corrupt or anything) |
| 21:08.29 |
poolio |
Also, that
whole situation of copying internal objects doesn't occur with a
generation size of one |
| 21:16.13 |
poolio |
Oh. That's a
pain. |
| 21:17.18 |
poolio |
It looks like
it is rt_gettree(). It does happen with g=1 because I raytrace the
region that is passed as an argument and rt_gettree() is called on
that |
| 21:20.58 |
``Erik |
based on how
it's used elsewhere |
| 21:21.21 |
``Erik |
hum, I was
looking at this line before, heh |
| 21:21.44 |
``Erik |
wait, you
don't prep, do you? |
| 21:21.53 |
poolio |
rt_prep()? I
do |
| 21:22.01 |
poolio |
ah does that
call gettree? |
| 21:22.35 |
``Erik |
no, that's
what cleans up gettree |
| 21:22.43 |
poolio |
oh |
| 21:23.50 |
poolio |
look at
fit_rt() in fitness: rtip = rt_new_rti(db); rt_gettree(rtip);
rt_prep(rtip); ...shoot rays... |
| 21:24.00 |
poolio |
and finally
rt_clean(rtip) |
| 21:25.01 |
``Erik |
not
rt_free_rti() ? |
| 21:25.19 |
poolio |
no |
| 21:25.31 |
poolio |
I previously
had rt_free_rti() but siwtched to rt_clean(). Do I need to do
both? |
| 21:25.51 |
``Erik |
rt_free_rti()
calls rt_clean() and does some other stuff |
| 21:26.01 |
poolio |
hmm
ok |
| 21:26.33 |
poolio |
rawr. |
| 21:26.42 |
poolio |
Why did I
change it to rt_clean()????????? |
| 21:27.51 |
poolio |
err still get
the rt_gettree leak |
| 21:31.23 |
``Erik |
hum,
actually, I think we found different things O.o |
| 21:32.36 |
poolio |
hmm? |
| 21:32.52 |
poolio |
I have a
feeling I'm not properly comprehending what is allocated and
unallocated in the rtip |
| 21:33.10 |
``Erik |
heh, same
here |
| 21:33.50 |
poolio |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:34.09 |
poolio |
is that
different than rt_uniresource? |
| 21:40.45 |
poolio |
``Erik: argh
I have to go, but I'll be around later. If you come across anything
just write it in here or send me an e-mail and I'll see it in a
couple hours. Thanks again for all the help |
| 21:42.15 |
``Erik |
np |
| 21:47.55 |
``Erik |
http://egv8.game.googlepages.com/home |
| 22:00.29 |
iraytrace |
The
rt_uniresource is a single resource allocated by the
library |
| 22:00.43 |
iraytrace |
For multiple,
the application has to alloc/dealloc |
| 23:34.53 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
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*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 00:26.08 |
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| 01:17.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
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*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm_
(n=ewilhelm@pool-71-111-49-155.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 06:27.12 |
poolio |
siggraph:
AHA! AHA!!! |
| 06:27.47 |
poolio |
siggraph: I
finally figured out why the GA wasn't really working and now I want
to shoot myself. It was actually working pretty well, the issue is
that it has a hard time dealing with source objects with a lot of
empty space |
| 06:28.21 |
poolio |
Because there
was so much empty space in my two seperated spheres trials, the
network had a hard time. It was being rewarded largely for not
matching at all (lots of similar empty space) |
| 06:28.53 |
poolio |
Testing it on
a cluster of 3 spheres works out nicely, the GA does produce better
results as the generations increase :D |
| 06:29.55 |
poolio |
I want to
shoot myself for just sticking to using that one example as a
benchmark for the past few weeks. |
| 06:30.08 |
poolio |
I always
assumed it was the code that was at fault and not the test
data. |
| 06:45.56 |
poolio |
siggraph:
pretty graph if you ever read this: http://poolio.org/files/working.png |
| 07:14.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
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*** part/#brlcad thing0
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*** join/#brlcad b0ef
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| 14:11.02 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
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| 14:11.55 |
poolio |
mornin |
| 14:17.19 |
``Erik |
oi |
| 14:18.50 |
poolio |
oy
vey? |
| 14:24.40 |
``Erik |
heh, I spell
mine japanese style, sorry :) lots of cultures have the same sound
with roughly the same meaning |
| 14:30.14 |
poolio |
oy. |
| 14:57.35 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:09.41 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 15:35.17 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 15:40.30 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:54.27 |
poolio |
hey ``Erik,
do you know if there's a way to find a kind of "bogus"
union...between an object and another object that fits inside that
other object? |
| 15:59.59 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:00.18 |
poolio |
The CIA is
going crazy. |
| 16:21.22 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 16:31.50 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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| 16:48.47 |
``Erik |
poolio:not
mathematically, but it could be sampled with buttloads of
rays |
| 16:49.29 |
``Erik |
brlcad had a
slew of csg optimizations scribbled on his whiteboard at one point,
that may've been part of the tree reduction stuff :/
*shrug* |
| 16:50.41 |
poolio |
heh
alright> i've though about it and decided that I actually want
to allow that behavior |
| 16:50.44 |
poolio |
so yeah
:) |
| 17:04.44 |
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| 17:15.44 |
poolio |
``Erik:
stupid question, how can I save the framebuffer from
mged? |
| 17:23.08 |
poolio |
err
nevermind, I just took a screenshot |
| 17:23.16 |
poolio |
http://poolio.org/files/cone.png |
| 17:27.59 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
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*** join/#brlcad CIA-27
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| 18:01.59 |
*** join/#brlcad ertugerata
(n=Ertugrul@88.230.240.109) |
| 18:02.05 |
ertugerata |
salut |
| 18:07.36 |
ertugerata |
enfin j'ai
fini compile et install brlcad |
| 18:08.22 |
``Erik |
heh, 'shitty
ftpd'... you had will to write code in java at some point???
:) |
| 18:08.36 |
poolio |
``Erik: I had
a class in it ... |
| 18:08.41 |
poolio |
It made me
stupider. |
| 18:09.06 |
``Erik |
striving for
mediocrity, yes |
| 18:09.19 |
poolio |
always. |
| 18:09.30 |
poolio |
jmario: 2d
mario-clone in Java. died with my will to write code in
Java. |
| 18:09.54 |
``Erik |
for real,
right? not the bass ackwards subset they teach in
classes? |
| 18:10.29 |
ertugerata |
en CVS, je ne
peux pas build opennurbs ? |
| 18:11.31 |
``Erik |
hum,
babelfish kinda ate that one |
| 18:11.32 |
poolio |
``Erik: errr,
I'm learning it on my own. I have to take a data structures class
in Java sometime though |
| 18:12.02 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
tu peut mais ce n'est pas "active" en la "default"
versione |
| 18:12.20 |
ertugerata |
hmm |
| 18:12.30 |
poolio |
faire comme
"--enable-opennurbs-build |
| 18:12.32 |
poolio |
" |
| 18:12.39 |
``Erik |
sicp is a
good book, um, and free video lectures by the dudes at
http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ |
| 18:12.43 |
ertugerata |
en config.log
il ya |
| 18:12.44 |
poolio |
./configure
--enable-opennurbs-build |
| 18:12.55 |
poolio |
``Erik:
that's what I'm working trhough, I'll check out the lectures
later |
| 18:13.01 |
poolio |
I really hvae
no time now though :\ |
| 18:13.29 |
``Erik |
the videos
are the lectures to go with the sicp, might as well do 'em at the
same time :) |
| 18:13.39 |
``Erik |
which scheme
are you using? drscheme out of rice? |
| 18:13.48 |
ertugerata |
configure:45666: result: Build
openNURBS.......................: no (doing without, BREP
unsupported) poolio |
| 18:15.45 |
``Erik |
ertugerata:
do you have emmintrin.h ? |
| 18:16.27 |
ertugerata |
dans quel
package a emmintrin.h ? |
| 18:17.06 |
``Erik |
<-- bsd
user, does not know linux |
| 18:17.40 |
ertugerata |
in bsd quel
source ? |
| 18:18.59 |
``Erik |
/usr/include/emmintrin.h (it comes from
gcc) |
| 18:19.45 |
ertugerata |
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:19.46 |
ertugerata |
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/install-tools/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:20.05 |
ertugerata |
in gcc
ici |
| 18:23.06 |
``Erik |
redhat...
./configure --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/HEAD
--enable-opennurbs-build |
| 18:23.07 |
``Erik |
Build
openNURBS.......................: yes |
| 18:23.16 |
``Erik |
$ locate
emmintrin.h |
| 18:23.19 |
``Erik |
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/3.4.3/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:23.24 |
``Erik |
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/4.1.1/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:24.13 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 18:24.33 |
poolio |
``Erik:
mit-scheme |
| 18:24.35 |
``Erik |
$ grep
header_emmintrin config.log |
| 18:24.35 |
``Erik |
ac_cv_header_emmintrin_h=yes |
| 18:25.46 |
``Erik |
poolio: I
wasn't thrilled by mit-scheme... drscheme is kinda a nice ide thing
going and a funky 'trace' thing that actually draws arrows on the
code... 'gauche' and 'chicken' are neat |
| 18:27.59 |
``Erik |
oh, and
'slime48' looks interesting if you're an emacs user who could
tolerate scheme48 |
| 18:29.00 |
poolio |
nah, not yet
an emacs user |
| 18:29.34 |
``Erik |
<-- vimmer
and proud... tried to learn emacs for slime... *shrug* I guess I'm
editor retarded or something |
| 18:31.07 |
poolio |
oh yeah, I
did try emacs + slime way back when |
| 18:33.42 |
ertugerata |
poolio: je
dois faire patch configure.ac for openurbs ou je coprends mal
? |
| 18:35.11 |
poolio |
``Erik: what
were you trying to tell ertugerata about open nurbs? |
| 18:35.43 |
``Erik |
it's trying
to enable it, the only test that could fail that would be if
emmintrins.h isn't happy |
| 18:35.58 |
``Erik |
emmintrin.h
rather |
| 18:36.11 |
``Erik |
I
think |
| 18:36.54 |
``Erik |
(don't know
why anyone would want the open nurbs stuff yet, it's not very wired
in...) |
| 18:37.58 |
ertugerata |
opennurbs a
quel fonction? si il n'existe pas mged ne marche pas bien
? |
| 18:39.38 |
``Erik |
ok, babel
fish made a mess of that one, too :) |
| 18:45.42 |
ertugerata |
poolio: dans
ton system ilya une file en /etc/env.d nomme comme 50brlcad
? |
| 18:45.45 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
mged marche bien sans opennurbs. opennurbs ne marche pas
maintenant, c'est normale que opennurbs est disable |
| 18:46.00 |
poolio |
err je n'ai
pas /etc/env.d |
| 18:46.15 |
ertugerata |
poolio: je
fait enable opennurbs |
| 18:47.35 |
``Erik |
(just
recently, brlcad changed the opennurbs default from 'auto' to 'no'
in cvs, jlowenz has moved to cooler projects in a cooler
group) |
| 18:47.41 |
ertugerata |
dans /etc il
ya une dossier pour environment ? |
| 18:47.44 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
non non, opennurbs ne fonctionne pas bien, il est meilleur si tu
n'enable pas |
| 18:48.04 |
poolio |
errr
non? |
| 18:48.11 |
poolio |
il y a un
~/.bashrc |
| 18:48.29 |
ertugerata |
paste moi ton
bashrc |
| 18:48.59 |
ertugerata |
poolio: il y
aune lisence problem pour opennurbs ? |
| 18:49.08 |
poolio |
non
? |
| 18:49.16 |
poolio |
opennurbs ne
marche pas pour tout le monde |
| 18:49.34 |
ertugerata |
hmm |
| 18:49.36 |
poolio |
la seule
chose de BRL-CAD en .bashrc est |
| 18:49.43 |
poolio |
PATH="/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH" |
| 18:49.52 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
mged marche bien sans opennurbs |
| 18:50.03 |
ertugerata |
merci bien je
vais faire disable |
| 18:50.10 |
``Erik |
MANPATH,
too... and sometimes LD_LIBRARY_PATH, though that can easily be
done to ld.so.conf as well |
| 18:50.10 |
poolio |
c'est
rien |
| 18:50.18 |
ertugerata |
pour lib
? |
| 18:50.29 |
ertugerata |
LDPATH
? |
| 18:51.09 |
``Erik |
on some
systems, the rpath in the binaries doesn't get there or isn't
respected, so it complains about missing libraries. I'm sure linux
doesn't have that issue... :) |
| 18:51.53 |
``Erik |
but the
MANPATH is good to have, BRL-CAD has pretty decent man
pages |
| 18:53.17 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
il n y a pas plus de changed, seulement PATH, et si tu veut les
"man pages" ajouter MANPATH |
| 18:54.16 |
``Erik |
poor ben,
stuck translating :D |
| 18:55.02 |
poolio |
eh it's
nothing, glad I can actually do something helfpul :) |
| 18:55.31 |
poolio |
also makes me
feel like those years spent studying french weren't such a waste
after all |
| 18:56.04 |
``Erik |
my years were
studying japanese, but I'd be effed if someone wanted me to
translate, I only remember a few choice ... phrases...
:) |
| 19:33.18 |
``Erik |
HAH |
| 19:33.23 |
``Erik |
http://drj11.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/subclassing-javaawtpaint/ |
| 19:34.45 |
``Erik |
about halfway
down, he snarfed the camo algorithm out of BRL-CAD |
| 19:39.01 |
ertugerata |
./usr/brlcad/bin/rt: MGED database not
specified ? |
| 19:40.20 |
poolio |
``Erik:
atleast he gives BRL-CAD credit |
| 19:41.14 |
``Erik |
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt -F/dev/Xl
/usr/brlcad/share/db/havoc.g havoc |
| 19:42.02 |
ertugerata |
``Erik: hmm
je vais faire essayer |
| 19:42.41 |
ertugerata |
hmm |
| 19:42.56 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 19:43.03 |
ertugerata |
my database
ici: /usr/share/db |
| 19:43.29 |
``Erik |
rt dossier.g
objets... |
| 19:44.21 |
ertugerata |
tout et dans
/usr/share/db |
| 19:45.02 |
ertugerata |
30 dossier.g
existe |
| 19:46.21 |
``Erik |
"havoc.g" has
an object named "havoc". "sphflake.g" has an object named
"scene.r" |
| 19:46.53 |
``Erik |
"rt
/path/to/havoc.g havoc" "rt /path/to/sphflake.g
scene.r" |
| 19:46.54 |
ertugerata |
comment je
peux savoir |
| 19:47.37 |
``Erik |
mged -c
/path/to/dossier.g tops |
| 19:48.37 |
``Erik |
or: "mged",
"file->open", choose, type "tops" in the command
window |
| 19:49.23 |
ertugerata |
hmm |
| 19:50.22 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
quel est la probleme? |
| 19:51.03 |
``Erik |
"-c" means
classic mode and allows MGED commands to be issued from the shell
command line |
| 19:51.07 |
ertugerata |
poolio:
benchmark ne trouve a-pas databese and rt aussi |
| 19:53.41 |
poolio |
quel est
l'erreur avec benchmark? |
| 19:54.41 |
ertugerata |
ng
[/usr/brlcad/bin/rt] for RT |
| 19:54.42 |
ertugerata |
ERROR: Could
not find the BRL-CAD database directory |
| 19:55.36 |
``Erik |
if that's
about "make benchmark", I always have to set variables like DBDIR
and PIXDIR |
| 19:55.56 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
c'est neccesaire de modifier les variables DBDIR et
PIXDIR |
| 19:55.59 |
ertugerata |
in bashrc
= |
| 19:56.07 |
ertugerata |
ou
? |
| 19:56.09 |
poolio |
si tu
veut |
| 19:56.12 |
poolio |
ou
comme |
| 19:56.20 |
poolio |
DBDIR="/usr/share/db"
benchmark |
| 19:56.28 |
ertugerata |
hmm |
| 19:57.00 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 19:57.02 |
``Erik |
sorry |
| 19:57.03 |
``Erik |
DB |
| 19:57.05 |
poolio |
thats
wrong |
| 19:57.06 |
poolio |
yeah |
| 19:57.10 |
ertugerata |
wrong |
| 19:57.23 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548763F1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:57.30 |
``Erik |
it's
inconsistent :( PIXDIR and DB both talking about
directories? |
| 19:58.36 |
``Erik |
I build out
of dir (in /usr/tmp/username/brlcadbuild) and this is why my
benchmark attempt looks like... $ PIXDIR=~/src/brlcad/pix
CMP=/usr/brlcad/bin/pixcmp RT=/usr/brlcad/bin/rt DB=$PWD/db/
~/src/brlcad/bench/run.sh |
| 19:58.37 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 19:59.21 |
poolio |
what about
'benchmark' ? |
| 19:59.32 |
ertugerata |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.53 |
poolio |
``Erik: is DB
pointing to where the databases are stored |
| 20:00.09 |
``Erik |
'make
benchmark' is just (cd bench && ./run.sh) or
something |
| 20:00.47 |
``Erik |
the .g files
have to be in $DB/ ... so 'make clean' would have broken
that |
| 20:02.27 |
poolio |
ertugerata:
est-ce que tu as fait 'make clean' |
| 20:02.58 |
ertugerata |
poolio: j'ai
compris maintenant |
| 20:03.19 |
ertugerata |
pix est danl
le source ? |
| 20:03.21 |
poolio |
d'accord? |
| 20:03.28 |
poolio |
quoi? |
| 20:03.28 |
ertugerata |
oui |
| 20:03.47 |
poolio |
est-ce que
benchmark marche maintenant? |
| 20:03.55 |
ertugerata |
je vais
essayer |
| 20:04.00 |
poolio |
alors |
| 20:04.11 |
ertugerata |
je crosi que
ça marche |
| 20:07.30 |
poolio |
bien |
| 21:52.17 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.96.193) |
| 21:59.54 |
dtidrow |
anybody
watching the shuttle launch? |
| 22:08.36 |
poolio |
eeek. the
shuttle is launching? |
| 22:08.42 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@sdcc-66-78-210-221.smartcity.com) |
| 22:27.22 |
dtidrow |
poolio: yep,
launches in about 9 minutes |
| 22:34.22 |
poolio |
dtidrow: what
channel/station? |
| 22:37.17 |
dtidrow_work |
www.nasa.gov |
| 22:37.41 |
dtidrow_work |
sorry, was
distracted |
| 22:38.58 |
yukonbob |
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html |
| 22:40.33 |
poolio |
up up and
away. Missed take off, just read it :\ |
| 22:42.49 |
louipc |
how long does
it take to exit the atmosphere? |
| 22:47.38 |
dtidrow_work |
poolio: sorry
about that :-\ |
| 22:48.11 |
dtidrow_work |
they usually
do a replay of the launch in a half-hour or so |
| 22:48.49 |
poolio |
eh I'll catch
it on the 11 o' clock news or something |
| 22:49.51 |
``Erik |
so it's in
stable orbit and opened up now? |
| 22:50.01 |
dtidrow_work |
pfft -
they'll hardly mention it |
| 22:50.15 |
dtidrow_work |
``Erik:
they're in orbit |
| 22:50.33 |
dtidrow_work |
still taking
pics of the tank |
| 22:50.47 |
``Erik |
they launch a
lot and have an astoundingly good track record given how
experimental and archaic it all is, but it's always good to hear
that they made it up safe |
| 22:50.53 |
dtidrow_work |
they open the
doors in an hour or so |
| 22:51.53 |
louipc |
archaic? |
| 22:52.16 |
poolio |
hmm...anyone
have a fast box they want to lone to me? |
| 22:52.37 |
dtidrow_work |
louipc: yeah,
most of the Shuttle was designed in the mid-70's |
| 22:53.27 |
louipc |
so was BRLCAD
eh? /haha |
| 22:53.38 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 22:54.01 |
louipc |
they've
upgraded things I hope |
| 22:56.28 |
``Erik |
they're
buying used 70's microchips off of ebay to keep the shuttles
running |
| 22:56.53 |
``Erik |
(now true,
they WORK and it's awfully hard to get a rad/temp proofed
microchip) |
| 22:56.59 |
louipc |
:O |
| 22:57.31 |
dtidrow_work |
poolio:
they're doing some launch replays now |
| 23:25.28 |
siggraph |
PIXDIR? |
| 23:25.34 |
siggraph |
you're making
up variables ``Erik |
| 23:26.06 |
siggraph |
it's just PIX
and DB and ... man benchmark |
| 23:27.24 |
siggraph |
you should
only have to set them if benchmark isn't installed, and maybe if
you're building out of dir |
| 23:28.11 |
siggraph |
also on cvs
head opennurbs was turned off by default (and unless they're
writing code, there's absolutely no reason for them to enable
it) |
| 23:35.03 |
poolio |
siggraph:
ahoy! |
| 23:35.24 |
poolio |
siggraph: did
you read my "aha!" moment? |
| 23:37.03 |
siggraph |
yep |
| 23:37.11 |
siggraph |
like the cone
:) |
| 23:37.28 |
siggraph |
that's
great |
| 23:38.24 |
poolio |
just finished
adding support for scaling to both bounding boxes |
| 23:38.26 |
poolio |
well it kind
of cheats |
| 23:38.32 |
poolio |
actually it's
an awful hackish solution, but it works |
| 23:38.50 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c
population.c beset.h fitness.h): fitness now scales to union of
bounding boxes. other slight modifications |
| 23:39.03 |
poolio |
Instead of
shooting rays to find the union of the bounding boxes, I just
create a box that encloses the two bounding boxes |
| 23:39.39 |
poolio |
and divides
the number of similar rays by the rays shot in the (overly large
encompassing) bounding box |
| 23:39.44 |
poolio |
does that
make any sense? |
| 23:40.45 |
siggraph |
"shooting
rays to find the union of the bounding boxes" -- what's that
mean? |
| 23:41.01 |
poolio |
siggraph: I
doubt you have any time now, but I'd like to try some larger-scale
tests on more complex data and am short on CPU power. Maybe early
next week you could perform some trial runs or give me access to a
more powerful box. It's taking a quite large population and a lot
of generations to even closely match the source |
| 23:41.15 |
poolio |
siggraph:
well, I actually wouldn't need to shoot rays, sorry |
| 23:41.24 |
poolio |
but finding
the volume of the union of the two bounding boxes |
| 23:41.34 |
siggraph |
what two
bounding boxes? |
| 23:41.40 |
siggraph |
i'm missing
some context |
| 23:41.41 |
poolio |
the input and
the individuals |
| 23:42.03 |
poolio |
Alright so
when I raytrace, I used a fixed bounding box that is the same for
all shapes (that bounding box is the bounding box of the original
source object) |
| 23:42.21 |
siggraph |
sure |
| 23:42.52 |
poolio |
As you talked
about earlier, it's kind of cropping the individual. So for example
lets say your source is an rpp, any giant shape would pretty much
be a perfect fit |
| 23:43.16 |
siggraph |
yep |
| 23:43.36 |
poolio |
so to
counteract that I'm now scaling it by the union of the source
bounding box and the individuals bounding box |
| 23:43.39 |
poolio |
ideally
they'd be the same |
| 23:43.48 |
poolio |
and if it's
smaller there is no effect |
| 23:43.58 |
siggraph |
scaling
what? |
| 23:44.05 |
poolio |
the fitness
value |
| 23:44.29 |
poolio |
heh I am
having issues finding the wording |
| 23:45.13 |
poolio |
but if the
rays from the source and the individual are the same, I increment
the fitness by the length of the ray which they are similar
in |
| 23:45.41 |
siggraph |
so you're
still generating a fitness based on rays fired on source to rays
fired on sample, but then scaling that fitness based on the ratio
of their respective bounding boxes |
| 23:45.49 |
poolio |
well
no |
| 23:46.04 |
poolio |
orignally it
was similar_value/#rays fired |
| 23:46.09 |
poolio |
sorry
no |
| 23:46.17 |
poolio |
similar_value/(#rays fired * length of
rays) |
| 23:46.29 |
poolio |
so basically
similar rays / (volume or maximum value it could be) |
| 23:46.49 |
poolio |
now it's
similar rays / (volume of large bounding box that encompasses the
union of both bounding boxes) |
| 23:47.17 |
poolio |
Does that
make sense? |
| 23:48.09 |
siggraph |
hm, I think
so |
| 23:48.22 |
poolio |
Ideally it'd
be similar rays / (volume of union of both bounding
boxes) |
| 23:48.35 |
poolio |
where volume
is going to heavily depend on # rays fired...not the actual volume
of the object |
| 23:48.42 |
poolio |
moreso the
maximum fitness that could be attained |
| 23:48.46 |
siggraph |
I think that
might actually be the same end-result to what I'd said |
| 23:48.49 |
poolio |
(if there was
an exact atch) |
| 23:48.54 |
siggraph |
just
operations applied in a different order |
| 23:48.56 |
poolio |
Yeah probably
:) |
| 23:49.09 |
poolio |
I can't think
of a good way to decompose similar rays / (volume of union of both
bounding boxes) |
| 23:49.54 |
poolio |
The code for
it is pretty hackish. I was just trying to get it working. It works
pretty well. See: the cone |
| 23:50.08 |
siggraph |
so .. does it
actually converge on one/two/three sphere(s)? |
| 23:50.25 |
siggraph |
the cone is
looking MUCH better |
| 23:50.39 |
siggraph |
sort of like
it's starting to work, though still not quite there :) |
| 23:50.41 |
poolio |
Also, if you
don't have the right number of shapes or the GA has proposed a good
solution with less shapes than the individual is made out of it
essentially "hides" those spheres. By either shrinking them or
putthing them within another sphere |
| 23:50.52 |
poolio |
It doesn't
really converge |
| 23:51.04 |
poolio |
It finds
solutions that visually make sense, but it's not waht you
want. |
| 23:51.21 |
poolio |
And the main
reason it wasn't working well is that it doesn't deal very well
when a large % of the input is empty space |
| 23:52.15 |
poolio |
I'm not sure
if it would converge, I've run stuff for ~1 hour and it's slowly
getting better. The issue is my laptop goes through a meltdown...
I have to run to dinner now but I'll start up a longer
run |
| 23:52.34 |
poolio |
and one
sphere does converge. |
| 23:53.04 |
poolio |
Two spheres
seems to like having one large ellipse cover both spheres and then
there are a lot of tiny spheres around it that have yet to be
cleaned up (but probably would be if the network ran
longer) |
| 23:53.14 |
poolio |
I'll try a
run on two spheres slightly seperated while I'm at
dinner. |
| 00:40.20 |
PrezKennedy |
its
good |
| 04:25.16 |
brlcad |
not sure it's
worth it to do anything about it, but maybe :) |
| 04:35.26 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753756.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:17.38 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: check for vim before looking
for vi, add comments on order preference, and don't invoke xterm if
we're IF_TK. this fixes sf feature request 1219084 (default editor
vim instead of vi suggested) |
| 05:20.54 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: you
in? |
| 05:21.42 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Mged now tests for vim before vi for text
editing, this implements sf feature request 1219084 (default editor
vim instead of vi suggested) |
| 05:28.25 |
yukonbob |
^--- bad
idea, brlcad :P |
| 05:29.33 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: reword for consistency |
| 05:29.38 |
brlcad |
what's
up? |
| 05:30.18 |
yukonbob |
hey
:) |
| 05:30.25 |
brlcad |
there's a
list of editors it checks in order, you can override to anything
(and should if you really want anything other than jove or
ed) |
| 05:31.08 |
yukonbob |
shouldn't it
just use "vi" as standard (like most *nix tools), if it can't find
EDITOR environment variable? |
| 05:31.37 |
yukonbob |
(or perhaps
check the OS, and use notepad for Windows, [whatever] for MacOS,
and vi for other *nix) |
| 05:31.56 |
brlcad |
that's what
it effectively does, per os |
| 05:32.20 |
brlcad |
and 'ed' is
the actual default if you go back far enough |
| 05:32.33 |
yukonbob |
EDITOR is the
"correct" way, imo. If somebody wants to use vim, nvi, elvis, joe,
nano, pico, emacs, xemacs, gedit, gvim, [whatever], setup
EDITOR |
| 05:32.51 |
yukonbob |
;) |
| 05:32.57 |
brlcad |
exactly, it
respects editor |
| 05:32.59 |
yukonbob |
the one true
editor, ed :) |
| 05:33.10 |
yukonbob |
so why make
allowances for vim? |
| 05:33.32 |
brlcad |
because there
were (necessarily) already allowances for other
platforms |
| 05:33.55 |
yukonbob |
slippery
slope... /me disagrees, but... |
| 05:34.09 |
yukonbob |
anyway,
before I saw those commits, I had another q: :) |
| 05:34.17 |
yukonbob |
see: http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png |
| 05:35.58 |
brlcad |
the software
is molded by its users too .. he has bothered to make several
substantial contributions, so it's a minor deal to have it
check |
| 05:36.55 |
brlcad |
not so
slippery since it's really "up to the app" if EDITOR isn't set, so
it could just as well make them tap out in morse code |
| 05:37.00 |
yukonbob |
but the
answer to his question is not recompiling brlcad, it's "set
EDITOR=vim" ... |
| 05:37.20 |
brlcad |
btw, the
default before all of this really was 'ed' |
| 05:37.33 |
brlcad |
(in
brl-cad) |
| 05:37.37 |
yukonbob |
heh -- I
guess, considering the age ;) |
| 05:38.48 |
brlcad |
another
contentious thing it does now is that it tries non-modal editors
before the modal ones too, just think of the editor flame
wars! |
| 05:39.29 |
brlcad |
anyways, I
digress.. what's the question :) |
| 05:39.59 |
yukonbob |
gah --- strip
that stuff out ;) -- the users environment belongs in environment
variables.. I use xemacs, and that's what I do -- and I'd never
send a bug report to get xemacs into the list of editors to check
for... |
| 05:40.08 |
yukonbob |
do you see
the pic in that link? |
| 05:40.14 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 05:40.27 |
yukonbob |
OK -- that's
a 32-hole 3x bicycle wheel... |
| 05:40.45 |
brlcad |
if you say so
:) |
| 05:40.47 |
yukonbob |
the spokes
are composite objects, but the long part is obviously just a
cylinder |
| 05:41.19 |
brlcad |
nice
model |
| 05:41.46 |
yukonbob |
32-hole == 16
holes per side of the hub, and 3x is read as "3 cross", because if
you look carefully at any spoke, you'll see on it's tangental exit
from the hub hole to the rim hole, it crosses 3 other
spokes... |
| 05:41.50 |
yukonbob |
thx
:) |
| 05:42.09 |
brlcad |
reminds me of
http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=25099
but with better spokes |
| 05:43.30 |
yukonbob |
I was
wondering: is it academic to "fix" the collision of the spokes at
their crosses? In a real-world build, the spokes bend a bit on
their path from the hub to the wheel, going over or under spokes
they cross... now there's a "wire" element (experimental?) that
does this... would it be applicable in this case? |
| 05:46.09 |
brlcad |
not sure what
you're referring to by "wire" but there is a pipe primitive that
might be ideal as it can be fed through arbitrary paths |
| 05:46.15 |
yukonbob |
the rim in
the sourceforge screenshot is also not accurate -- typically spoke
holes are offset to the side the spokes are coming from (ie: not
right down the center of the rim, but alternate slightly right,
slightly left). |
| 05:46.40 |
yukonbob |
ah -- pipe.
that sounds right |
| 05:46.44 |
brlcad |
to 'fix' the
collision would probably be wrong, they're either connected
material or they're not |
| 05:47.15 |
brlcad |
if they're
not, they should account for it, otherwise various analysis methods
would readily fail (e.g. FEA) |
| 05:47.36 |
brlcad |
pipe is
covered in the "principles of effective modeling" iirc |
| 05:47.57 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 05:48.21 |
yukonbob |
ok -- the
same "issue" I'm having (in my head) with the spokes can be
imagined as such: |
| 05:48.53 |
yukonbob |
a box, with a
string joining kitty-corners, and another string on the same plane
joining the other corners. |
| 05:49.00 |
brlcad |
hm, mine are
perfectly in the center :) |
| 05:49.10 |
brlcad |
that's not
mine in the pic, but similar tire |
| 05:49.35 |
yukonbob |
ah -- mine
aren't... high-end or not? |
| 05:50.23 |
yukonbob |
anyway, back
to the spokes :) |
| 05:50.27 |
brlcad |
ahh, these
are moderately high end road tires |
| 05:50.37 |
brlcad |
probably road
vs off-road |
| 05:51.15 |
yukonbob |
do you see
how the spokes would behave in the physical world? |
| 05:51.59 |
brlcad |
yes, those
even with your string example, they just come really close --
tangent even, and you could model that if you want |
| 05:52.33 |
yukonbob |
the spokes
really are woven though... in a real 3x build, it'd be over 2,
under 1, and to the rim. |
| 05:52.51 |
yukonbob |
so they
"brace" against ea. other |
| 05:53.00 |
brlcad |
there's a
ever so slight bend that is basically the sine angle |
| 05:53.25 |
brlcad |
sure, they
touch, have a tension against them |
| 05:53.40 |
brlcad |
but there is
a find bend there too |
| 05:54.03 |
brlcad |
about half
the radius.. so it'sbarely imperceptible for such a tiny
wire |
| 05:54.31 |
yukonbob |
right --- so
pipe would be suitable better primitive? |
| 05:55.13 |
brlcad |
probably,
though it's still going to be tricky if you want to get the math
really accurate, you're going to have to pull out some trig,
compute some angles |
| 05:55.25 |
yukonbob |
or would
there be some other "fudge" method, or ignore it? (I guess it'd
really depend on the intended use, but I'm being academic to try to
learn here ;) |
| 05:55.34 |
brlcad |
pipe are
described as sequences of straight sections and bends |
| 05:55.54 |
brlcad |
you could
ignore it, depends what purpose you're modeling for |
| 05:56.34 |
yukonbob |
right -- if
it's just a pretty picture, what I've got will do... but I'm not
averse to learning skills, esp. if it's more "correct" and might
serve me in the future... |
| 05:57.22 |
brlcad |
if I were
modeling it, I'd probably pick a pipe, model half the distance to
the "touch point" as a straight section, then a big bend that has a
bend radius just half the thickness radius that takes it past the
point of intersection |
| 05:57.45 |
brlcad |
do that for
all of the spokes and you should end up with spokes that perfectly
touch tangent in the middle of that bend |
| 05:58.51 |
yukonbob |
right on ...
I'll give it a go :) |
| 05:58.54 |
brlcad |
pipes are
really tricky to grasp at first, but probably one of brl-cad's most
powerful primitives (and generally better than most commercial cad
system piping tools) |
| 05:59.19 |
yukonbob |
well, I know
where to come when I have issues... |
| 05:59.31 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 05:59.35 |
yukonbob |
when I'm
done, I'll render a picture for the new website. |
| 05:59.47 |
yukonbob |
we need a
user gallery |
| 05:59.57 |
brlcad |
it's already
stbbed out |
| 06:00.12 |
brlcad |
i.e., planned
:) |
| 06:00.29 |
brlcad |
part of the
new site that's coming together bit by bit |
| 06:00.32 |
yukonbob |
nice |
| 06:01.18 |
yukonbob |
hey, have you
already seen "Spirited Away" and "Princess Mononoke"? |
| 06:01.29 |
brlcad |
i've seen
spirited away |
| 06:01.37 |
brlcad |
don't recal
if i've seen pm |
| 06:01.47 |
yukonbob |
you might
like like PM, then |
| 06:02.03 |
brlcad |
tend to like
them kinda dark and techy though |
| 06:02.12 |
yukonbob |
ah... |
| 06:02.14 |
brlcad |
GITM was my
cup of tea |
| 06:02.49 |
brlcad |
i've *still*
not seen it yet |
| 06:02.57 |
yukonbob |
awesome
animation |
| 06:03.08 |
yukonbob |
have you seen
Vampire Hunter D? |
| 06:03.26 |
brlcad |
yeah, I
drooled over all the previous I saw .. and they were at the
siggraph electronic theater last year iirc |
| 06:03.34 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 06:04.40 |
yukonbob |
there's stuff
that looks photo-realistic, but animated or processed, so it's kind
of tough to tell _what_ it is, but it's a great
effect... |
| 06:06.12 |
brlcad |
for
vampire? |
| 06:06.44 |
yukonbob |
both -- they
have the same thing... in Vampire, it's especially noticeable in a
subway scene... and in GITS, in a corner store |
| 06:07.48 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 06:10.55 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 06:11.13 |
brlcad |
they're in
there because the alternative (which is what we had) was too much
of a support burden |
| 06:11.39 |
brlcad |
a vast
majority seemingly no nothing about EDITOR |
| 06:11.44 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 06:11.51 |
brlcad |
i know, but
it's true |
| 06:11.56 |
brlcad |
i'd rather
not set anything |
| 06:12.14 |
brlcad |
but then I
invariably end up answering that exact question about once a
month |
| 06:12.38 |
yukonbob |
we need an
FAQ section that's maintained in the site too. |
| 06:12.44 |
brlcad |
i'm a bit of
a cheerleader for things "just working" by default, so if that's
what it takes, so be it :) |
| 06:12.46 |
yukonbob |
MinuteElectron ^^^ |
| 06:13.38 |
yukonbob |
I'll be the
advocate for "Good Form" then, and take you to task where warranted
:) |
| 06:13.48 |
yukonbob |
anyway --
happy coding, chat soon brlcad :) |
| 06:19.47 |
brlcad |
:)
cya |
| 07:06.30 |
MinuteElectron |
yes? |
| 07:06.38 |
MinuteElectron |
I wasn't
here, I will read. |
| 07:06.46 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
FAQ |
| 07:07.42 |
MinuteElectron |
It can go in
the Documentation section. |
| 07:07.45 |
MinuteElectron |
Or
support. |
| 07:07.49 |
MinuteElectron |
*shrug& |
| 07:08.13 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Yeah
transparency pngs. |
| 07:08.16 |
MinuteElectron |
THey
suck. |
| 07:08.33 |
MinuteElectron |
I have to
work out how to fix it, there is some javascript hacks. |
| 07:08.40 |
MinuteElectron |
But not sure
where to get them from. |
| 07:33.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:40.49 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Are
you busy, it would be nice to discuss colors. |
| 07:41.31 |
yukonbob |
ciao
MinuteElectron :) |
| 07:41.36 |
MinuteElectron |
night |
| 07:50.24 |
MinuteElectron |
This si why I
gave up with pngfix last time - it doesn't work. |
| 09:08.17 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-019-090.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:46.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875C02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:11.35 |
*** join/#brlcad kwizart
(n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart) |
| 13:31.17 |
kwizart |
hello! I
have a tk85 missdetection at configure whereas running the conf.c
return 0 from my system... |
| 13:31.36 |
kwizart |
at configure,
it show: |
| 13:31.36 |
kwizart |
checking for
Tk library functionality... no |
| 13:32.04 |
kwizart |
config.log
returns: Tk_Init returned error |
| 13:32.23 |
kwizart |
whereas using
http://pastebin.ca/675727 |
| 13:33.05 |
kwizart |
from a
terminal with gcc gcc -I/usr/include -ltcl8.5 -ltk8.5
test.c |
| 13:33.12 |
kwizart |
./a.out |
| 13:33.19 |
kwizart |
echo
$? |
| 13:33.24 |
kwizart |
this return 0
! |
| 13:51.09 |
brlcad |
kwizart: that
test should now be changed/fixed in CVS head |
| 13:51.32 |
brlcad |
basically,
Tk_Init is failing because it cannot attach to the X11
server |
| 13:52.16 |
kwizart |
nice i will
have a look, (might be configure.ac right ?) |
| 13:52.16 |
brlcad |
probably
because of DISPLAY being set or unset, usually -- so you can either
manually disable the test, or use the latest sources and see if
that fixes the problem for you |
| 13:52.30 |
brlcad |
the test is
defined in configure.ac |
| 13:53.39 |
brlcad |
search on
"Tk_Init returned error" to disable it (just have it return 0) or
you can update the test to the same one on head which doesn't
require display to be set |
| 13:53.47 |
brlcad |
or set your
display before running configure :) |
| 13:56.39 |
kwizart |
brlcad, yes
it is building with return 0 .. |
| 14:01.39 |
kwizart |
nice! i'm at
the install step ! there will be a fedora build ! |
| 14:01.44 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 14:01.48 |
kwizart |
probably
! |
| 14:01.55 |
brlcad |
if you make
an RPM, send it my way and I'll post it up ;) |
| 14:03.02 |
kwizart |
nice! but fow
now i need to figure out how to have tcl85/tk85 build staticaly
unless you can add also tcl85 and tk85 shared... |
| 14:06.18 |
kwizart |
arf, there is
rpaths... |
| 14:06.54 |
kwizart |
ERROR 0002:
file '/usr/bin/isst_slave' contains an invalid rpath
'/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtienet/.libs'
in
[/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtienet/.libs:/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtie/.libs] |
| 14:07.12 |
kwizart |
i can need to
disable them... |
| 14:22.24 |
brlcad |
eep, yeah,
disable adrt |
| 14:22.28 |
brlcad |
--disable-adrt |
| 14:23.04 |
brlcad |
you can get
tcl/tk to build static by adding --disable-shared to their
configure args (near the end of configure.ac) |
| 14:23.28 |
brlcad |
look for
ac_configure_args |
| 14:23.40 |
brlcad |
though I'd
question why you want them static |
| 14:27.29 |
kwizart |
tcl85 and
tk85 are not into fedora yet... so i'm using tcl85-devel from
another repository... |
| 14:27.54 |
kwizart |
using static
version will make them more portable as i expect... |
| 14:28.51 |
kwizart |
or i can
submit tcl85/tk85 to fedora so they can be ship within (in
parallele with tcl/tk 8.4) |
| 14:38.31 |
brlcad |
yeah, final
isn't out yet so they'd probably not be too interested just
yet |
| 15:04.38 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 15:13.39 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ |
| 15:16.42 |
brlcad |
minute: I
believe I fixed the footer alignment issue, it now wraps cleanly
and keeps the search up top |
| 15:17.14 |
brlcad |
had to put
the search box after the quote so it could float right |
| 15:17.58 |
poolio |
Website is
cool, but there's something about the tan/cyan color scheme that
doesn't look quite right |
| 15:48.40 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:51.49 |
``Erik |
vim might be
in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /opt/local/bin, /opt/bin, /sw/bin, ...
gonna search all the various possible paths? (same with emacs)...
better to have a faq entry imho :) |
| 16:07.09 |
kwizart |
i have this
error when i have --disable-shared and --enable-static (whereas the
contrary seems to work) |
| 16:07.09 |
kwizart |
http://pastebin.ca/675881 |
| 16:21.26 |
kwizart |
well no,
using mock chrooted buildsys it fails with: |
| 16:21.26 |
kwizart |
*** buffer
overflow detected ***:
/builddir/build/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh
terminated |
| 16:22.08 |
kwizart |
whereas it
seems to work using rpmbuild...on non-chrooted
system... |
| 16:22.20 |
kwizart |
maybe some
missing BuildRequires or alse... |
| 16:22.21 |
kwizart |
else |
| 16:32.26 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dbconcat hangs on empty tree
nodes |
| 16:43.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p548749A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:53.29 |
*** join/#brlcad FireBird2003
(n=FireBird@p549CCBA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:53.33 |
FireBird2003 |
hi |
| 16:53.42 |
kwizart |
the problem i
have seems related to # --datadir=%{_datadir}/%{name}
\ |
| 16:53.59 |
kwizart |
(backtrace) |
| 16:54.34 |
kwizart |
testing... |
| 16:55.38 |
FireBird2003 |
I try to
compile the newest src-tarball and got an error in dm_xvars.h
saying that a specifier-qualifier list is expected in line 55
XVisualinfo * |
| 16:56.57 |
FireBird2003 |
Im using
Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 17:00.28 |
FireBird2003 |
any
ideas? |
| 17:02.04 |
``Erik |
broken X? do
you have all the X developer packages installed? |
| 17:02.50 |
FireBird2003 |
hm, I marked
the #ifdef out and got this file compiled |
| 17:03.03 |
FireBird2003 |
so, it might
be the config? |
| 17:03.27 |
``Erik |
look in, um,
include/brlcad_config.h for HAVE_X11_XLIB_H |
| 17:03.36 |
``Erik |
should be
defined to '1' |
| 17:03.40 |
FireBird2003 |
ok |
| 17:04.00 |
``Erik |
if it's
#undef, then you either don't have the X headers or the config
script is broken |
| 17:05.14 |
FireBird2003 |
2nd |
| 17:05.20 |
FireBird2003 |
I have the
header |
| 17:05.48 |
``Erik |
Xlib.h
? |
| 17:05.55 |
``Erik |
or just X.h
? |
| 17:06.33 |
FireBird2003 |
Xlib.h |
| 17:07.18 |
``Erik |
hum, when you
ran ./configure, did the end report "X11 support ....: yes"
? |
| 17:07.31 |
FireBird2003 |
I'll try
again |
| 17:07.53 |
``Erik |
you can look
in config.log |
| 17:08.52 |
FireBird2003 |
too
late... |
| 17:09.26 |
FireBird2003 |
X11 support
is yes |
| 17:09.32 |
``Erik |
<-- likes
to do "./configure --enable-optimized 2>&1 | tee
configure.out" to refer back to those |
| 17:09.54 |
``Erik |
ok, check
your include/brlcad_config.h file again? HAVE_X11_XLIB_H is
still |
| 17:09.55 |
``Erik |
... |
| 17:10.32 |
*** join/#brlcad FireBird2003
(n=FireBird@p549CCBA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:10.47 |
FireBird2003 |
sry,
accidently closed xchar |
| 17:10.50 |
FireBird2003 |
-r+t |
| 17:11.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 17:11.43 |
FireBird2003 |
the
config-script is broken |
| 17:11.57 |
``Erik |
is
HAVE_X11_XLIB_H still an #undef in include/brlcad_config.h
? |
| 17:12.02 |
FireBird2003 |
it says X11
to yes |
| 17:12.04 |
FireBird2003 |
yes |
| 17:12.24 |
FireBird2003 |
i changed it
to a #define |
| 17:12.35 |
FireBird2003 |
and started
compiling again |
| 17:12.46 |
``Erik |
where is your
Xlib.h ? |
| 17:12.56 |
FireBird2003 |
/usr/include/X11 |
| 17:13.10 |
``Erik |
huh, that's
an odd place to put X headers |
| 17:13.24 |
FireBird2003 |
this is the
Ubuntu way |
| 17:13.28 |
FireBird2003 |
why
odd? |
| 17:14.02 |
FireBird2003 |
ahh, normaly
should be /usr/X11/include, isn't it? |
| 17:14.21 |
``Erik |
/usr/X11R6/include/X11 |
| 17:14.42 |
FireBird2003 |
ok |
| 17:14.53 |
``Erik |
if you do
./configure --with-x-includes=/usr/include/X11 it should 'just
work' |
| 17:15.49 |
FireBird2003 |
i will first
try it with my changed config |
| 17:16.14 |
FireBird2003 |
I'll try that
later, ok? |
| 17:16.20 |
``Erik |
aight |
| 17:16.25 |
``Erik |
*shrug* up to
you :) |
| 17:16.26 |
FireBird2003 |
I don't want
to restart compilation again |
| 17:18.59 |
FireBird2003 |
hmm, some odd
warnings in the compilation process, I wonder what a lint would say
to them ;) |
| 17:20.12 |
``Erik |
if it's in
src/other/ we don't care *shrug* splint is brutal... and we have
some other tools that report slews we need to fix :/ |
| 17:21.18 |
FireBird2003 |
ok, it was
just a joke |
| 17:22.17 |
``Erik |
well, it's
legitimate *shrug* and 'flawfinder' has been run on an older
version...
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1460888&group_id=105292&atid=640803 |
| 17:22.58 |
``Erik |
(dwheeler,
huh, same guy who does sloccount... neat) |
| 18:09.17 |
FireBird2003 |
ok, the
headers were found by configure, now |
| 18:09.59 |
FireBird2003 |
trying to
compile,,, |
| 18:13.33 |
FireBird2003 |
urgs |
| 18:14.22 |
FireBird2003 |
undefined
reference to XFreeDevicesList in libdm.so |
| 18:16.42 |
FireBird2003 |
seems again
like a wrong X Configuration |
| 18:20.36 |
FireBird2003 |
in
/src/bwish |
| 18:21.47 |
minute |
brlcad: Hi,
cool. Sorry about the lag, I was shopping. Can't see your changes
because all my connections to the my.brlcad.org server are timing
out. |
| 18:21.59 |
brlcad |
np |
| 18:22.30 |
minute |
Same problem
as yesterday, must be an ISP problem or something. |
| 18:23.07 |
minute |
I'll just go
fit a few screws into my PC... |
| 18:24.07 |
brlcad |
minute: try,
http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/ss.png |
| 18:25.11 |
minute |
Also times
out. |
| 18:25.37 |
brlcad |
http://66.111.56.50/~sean/tmp/ss.png
? |
| 18:26.37 |
minute |
times
out |
| 18:29.38 |
minute |
dw about
it |
| 18:29.46 |
minute |
it will clear
up eventually like yesterday |
| 18:45.11 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 2 dirs): various minor
fixes from "flawfinder" and compiler warnings |
| 19:17.11 |
FireBird2003 |
giving up the
try to compile the sources... |
| 19:18.16 |
brlcad |
FireBird2003:
what's the problem? |
| 19:18.28 |
brlcad |
CIA-21: wake
up |
| 19:18.32 |
FireBird2003 |
undefined
reference to XFreeDevicesList |
| 19:18.47 |
FireBird2003 |
iin
libdm.so |
| 19:19.24 |
FireBird2003 |
I don't know
what library is missing |
| 19:19.44 |
brlcad |
run this: nm
-o /usr/X11R6/lib/lib*.a | grep -i XFreeDevicesList |
| 19:20.56 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: added missing
header for fbsd. changed chmod() to fchmod()
(flawfinder). |
| 19:21.01 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ADRT libtie bug fixes and performance
enhancements |
| 19:21.05 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: fixed
signed/unsigned comparison |
| 19:21.07 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: typos. |
| 19:21.21 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: minor casting and
default value (-Wall) |
| 19:21.32 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: change fprintf to
fputs/fputc to further reduce allocation possibilities |
| 19:22.38 |
FireBird2003 |
found it in
/usr/lib |
| 19:22.55 |
FireBird2003 |
in
libXi.a |
| 19:23.30 |
brlcad |
there ya go,
-lXi |
| 19:23.39 |
brlcad |
make
LIBS="-lXi" |
| 19:23.53 |
brlcad |
in whatever
dir is failing |
| 19:24.10 |
FireBird2003 |
trying |
| 19:25.38 |
FireBird2003 |
seems to
compile now... |
| 19:26.45 |
FireBird2003 |
I hope, that
it will reach an end then |
| 19:29.30 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: trimmed down
oversized string |
| 19:38.57 |
minute |
This is just
silly. |
| 19:39.06 |
minute |
My SSH
connections are just being picked off one by one. |
| 19:39.29 |
brlcad |
could be
intentional |
| 19:39.38 |
brlcad |
maybe they
don't want you on ssh :) |
| 19:39.41 |
minute |
First my
connection to my.brlcad.org dies - then I loose
excalibur.rudyvalencia.net - now I am using idkb.eu |
| 19:40.06 |
minute |
brlcad: they?
:D |
| 19:40.14 |
brlcad |
they. |
| 19:40.19 |
brlcad |
as in .. the
people out to get you |
| 19:40.24 |
``Erik |
read the
irregular striped bucket. |
| 19:40.26 |
minute |
hehe |
| 19:40.42 |
``Erik |
er, striped
irregular bucket, rather |
| 19:40.56 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: try not to
bu_malloc() 0 bytes. Caused the lighting model to
bomb... |
| 19:41.12 |
``Erik |
http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard_Indexes.html |
| 19:41.38 |
brlcad |
is that the
cache bug? |
| 19:41.39 |
minute |
But odly I
can still use Minefield to visit the excalibur web page, but not
the my.brlcad.org one. |
| 19:41.43 |
minute |
It is so
tedious sshing using ssh. |
| 19:41.59 |
``Erik |
I dunno, it
was causing failures without a cache... |
| 19:42.13 |
``Erik |
I'm guessing
when it was written, bu_malloc() did NOT bomb when given 0
bytes... |
| 19:43.40 |
brlcad |
maybe |
| 19:43.59 |
brlcad |
was added a
couple years ago since code really shouldn't ever be doing
that |
| 19:48.47 |
FireBird2003 |
finally, it
compiled |
| 19:48.55 |
FireBird2003 |
thx,
guys |
| 19:51.29 |
``Erik |
and with only
half the ritual needed for a linux kernel compile? :D |
| 19:52.25 |
brlcad |
FireBird2003:
np, glad it worked out |
| 19:53.10 |
FireBird2003 |
I had shorter
kernel compile affords ;) |
| 19:54.13 |
minute |
I can't stand
how slow this is. Me is going to reinstall windows while I wait and
see if the problem resolves. |
| 19:54.16 |
``Erik |
once
familiar, sure :) (personally, I'm kinda groovin' to fbsd kernel
and system stuff.... "cd /usr/src ; make buildworld kernel world
&& reboot") |
| 19:54.46 |
brlcad |
minute: ahh,
maybe you're part of a fun botnet |
| 19:54.54 |
brlcad |
compromised
host et al |
| 19:55.07 |
brlcad |
need some
tcpdump goodness to see what's going on |
| 19:55.56 |
``Erik |
never peer
into a tcpdump without protection, it'll consume your soul
O.o |
| 19:58.58 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik fixed a photon-mapping lighting
model crash where it was trying to allocate zero bytes (which cases
an intentional bomb) |
| 19:59.24 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (Makefile.am adrt/Makefile.am): since it's
now integrated with the big M, always compile adrt's libtie
regardless of adrt being disabled/enabled because of python/sdl
(since libtie is generic). |
| 20:04.19 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(i=yesxpqug@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-1709fefe02c01fa3) |
| 20:15.05 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron
(n=Anonymou@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:53.21 |
*** join/#brlcad Laniakea
(i=clock@77-56-107-181.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:14.14 |
minute |
brlcad: My
computer is directctly protected from the internet by a
router. |
| 21:14.38 |
minute |
I am not
afraid, although the house administrator with his direct connection
should be. |
| 21:14.41 |
minute |
(I am on
wi-fi). |
| 21:20.50 |
kwizart |
ok so
Fedora's %configure macro set datadir in %{_datadir} which is what
it should use, but if it is set to /usr/local/share/brlcad/ whihc
seems the default , I have a backtrace at build step... |
| 21:20.58 |
kwizart |
also version
conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5a5, need
8.5a6-8.5a7 |
| 21:21.16 |
kwizart |
does 7.10.2
need tcl 8.5a6 or sooner ? |
| 21:21.26 |
kwizart |
i only have
8.5a5 |
| 21:21.46 |
``Erik |
it should be
ok with 8.5a5 |
| 21:21.58 |
``Erik |
8.4 won't
work, though |
| 21:25.39 |
kwizart |
so i expect
the tcl package i use export LD_PATH_TCL badly... |
| 21:26.01 |
kwizart |
then when it
try to compile tcl script it fails to find the system
tcl... |
| 21:26.50 |
kwizart |
so this
answear why it may work with rpmbuild and not with the chrooter
buildsys |
| 21:26.55 |
kwizart |
chrooted |
| 21:30.38 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 21:31.08 |
``Erik |
<-- has
never had to use LD_PATH_TCL O.o |
| 21:31.59 |
``Erik |
I do have to
pass some variables to get it to grab the system tcl on the boxen I
care about (mostly fbsd), like CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include/tcl8.5
and LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib |
| 21:34.21 |
brlcad |
there is no
a7 yet |
| 21:35.11 |
kwizart |
``Erik, so
you don't need some tclConfig.sh ? |
| 21:39.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Apathy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 21:45.41 |
``Erik |
shouldn't
need it, kwiz, the script looks for the headers and libraries and
assumes the location of the .tcl files I think... |
| 21:46.33 |
``Erik |
(I assume
brlcad will correct me if I'm wrong... ) |
| 21:47.01 |
``Erik |
brlcad:
libtie proper is still not upgraded? |
| 21:47.04 |
``Erik |
in the
repo? |
| 21:52.08 |
kwizart |
here is the
"warning" i have at %install step: |
| 21:52.09 |
kwizart |
http://pastebin.ca/676252 |
| 21:52.50 |
kwizart |
that make me
think while installing tclscript it search in brlcad contrib paths
instead of system path... |
| 21:54.28 |
``Erik |
why do you
have dyld stuff? |
| 21:54.39 |
``Erik |
or is that in
the makefiles? heh |
| 21:55.37 |
kwizart |
actually i
have /usr/share/tcl8.5/init.tcl which is not found at %install
step... |
| 21:56.14 |
kwizart |
instead it
search for
/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl |
| 21:56.27 |
``Erik |
that's a
funny place |
| 21:56.29 |
kwizart |
which is
wrong since i would prefer to use system tcl |
| 21:56.32 |
``Erik |
it should be
in /usr/lib/tcl8.5/ |
| 21:56.53 |
kwizart |
yes but it is
arch independant ?! |
| 21:57.22 |
``Erik |
yes... but we
kinda work off the defaults |
| 21:57.26 |
``Erik |
and what,
y'know, most os's use |
| 21:57.34 |
``Erik |
ubuntu seems
to be all kinds of weird :) |
| 21:58.11 |
``Erik |
there MIGHT
be a variable to fix it, but I don't know it off the top of my
head |
| 21:58.35 |
``Erik |
and I just
started my nice long weekend, so I'm not terribly apt to dig it up
:D sharpen up a stick and poke brlcad with it |
| 22:01.26 |
kwizart |
well for knwo
i will tweak tclscript to use system by default... |
| 22:02.49 |
kwizart |
src/tclscripts/Makefile.am shows
TCL_LIBRARY=$(top_srcdir)/src/other/tcl/library \ |
| 22:03.05 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 22:04.39 |
kwizart |
Can't find a
usable init.tcl in the following directories: |
| 22:04.39 |
kwizart |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.51 |
kwizart |
only the
internal one is listed here ?! |
| 22:05.59 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:15.17 |
CIA-21 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: protect the vararg func
decl |
| 22:33.41 |
minute |
This
sucks. |
| 22:33.59 |
minute |
I am gonna
get onto the ISP if this isn't resolved by the morning. |
| 22:34.19 |
minute |
Routhing
throgh excalibur.rudyvalencia.com was slow, but routing through
silentflame is even slower. |
| 01:45.35 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:49.31 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871463.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:50.22 |
IriX64 |
louipc:
www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc.png |
| 02:50.35 |
IriX64 |
err http:// :) |
| 03:04.57 |
louipc |
what's
that? |
| 03:35.37 |
IriX64 |
a photon
mapped havoc |
| 06:11.23 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 06:27.12 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
do you mean by 'login panel' - I thought I did do that already.
Replaced the box with a link. |
| 06:29.55 |
MinuteElectron |
louipc: It
seams like you are missing a large part of the CSS, the tabs are in
the wrong place. The sidebar shouldn't have borders etc. Can you
try doing a forced clear of your Firefox cache
Ctrl+Shift+R? |
| 06:30.42 |
MinuteElectron |
To me it
looks as if the HTML modifications have come to your browser, but
the CSS ones haven't - a sure sign of caching. |
| 06:41.09 |
MinuteElectron |
Later
all. |
| 10:11.02 |
louipc |
cool it works
now |
| 11:16.03 |
*** join/#brlcad fleeky
(n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) |
| 11:16.04 |
fleeky |
hi |
| 11:49.12 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-094-217.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:39.35 |
fleeky |
is the bulk
of the new interface work being done on archer or mged or both ?
or neither ? if neither whats it being done on ? |
| 13:03.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877B59.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:31.51 |
*** join/#brlcad fleeky
(n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) |
| 14:34.16 |
fleeky |
hi
hi |
| 14:40.05 |
brlcad |
neither, new
tool will leverage a ton of stuff that mged has/does, but the code
is fresh (mged is a c/tcl hybrid, archer is a pure tcl/itcl
rewrite) |
| 14:40.24 |
fleeky |
ah ok so it
will be a whole new thing |
| 14:40.42 |
fleeky |
good to know
.. and its still in the planning stage right ? |
| 14:41.17 |
MinuteElectron |
07:27 <
MinuteElectron> brlcad: What do you mean by 'login panel' - I
thought I did do that already. Replaced the box with a
link. |
| 14:43.25 |
brlcad |
fleeky: it's
a constant and evolving planning stage .. lots of code has been
written that support it but almost entirely on the backend/engine
side of things |
| 14:44.20 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: i know, it's better ..
something about the panel still bothers me on the main page,
though |
| 14:44.24 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 14:44.50 |
brlcad |
certainly a
minor issue, and maybe a "after moved" issue instead of
before |
| 14:44.55 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 14:45.00 |
fleeky |
ahk |
| 14:49.29 |
brlcad |
so that was
entirely a cache issue with louipc? great |
| 14:50.10 |
MinuteElectron |
Yep, and I
fixed the header in IE! |
| 14:50.24 |
MinuteElectron |
Simply needed
a width: so it didn't deault to 100%. |
| 14:51.05 |
brlcad |
backups are
running smoothly (again), both full server sync and database dumps,
and now with better rotations on db and user logs too so backups
won't take so long |
| 14:51.14 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 14:51.19 |
MinuteElectron |
nice |
| 14:51.38 |
fleeky |
brlcad do you
have that link to any info on documentation for writing an
interface? |
| 14:51.49 |
brlcad |
wonder how
much we care about IE5Mac :) |
| 14:51.53 |
MinuteElectron |
hehe |
| 14:51.55 |
brlcad |
it's totally
hosed there |
| 14:51.59 |
MinuteElectron |
ouch |
| 14:52.25 |
fleeky |
test what
? |
| 14:52.31 |
MinuteElectron |
The
website. |
| 14:52.36 |
fleeky |
link pls
:) |
| 14:52.37 |
brlcad |
basically
none of the pngs, and the layout is jacked |
| 14:52.46 |
MinuteElectron |
eee |
| 14:52.52 |
MinuteElectron |
fleeky:
http://my.brlcad.org/ |
| 14:52.58 |
MinuteElectron |
Not done yet
mind you. |
| 14:53.13 |
fleeky |
ofcourse |
| 14:53.19 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
is this 'Heavy load response' you are talking about? |
| 14:53.28 |
MinuteElectron |
I can't find
any info on the drupal website regarding it. |
| 14:53.42 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/ie5crap.png |
| 14:54.06 |
brlcad |
notice the
various scrollbars too :) |
| 14:54.12 |
fleeky |
man i cant
wait till brl has a decent modeller friendly interface you guys
will cry with happiness at the stuff i make :) |
| 14:54.15 |
``Erik |
brlcad: is
there a working NX install anywhere handy? |
| 14:54.40 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Ouch,
that is bad. |
| 14:54.48 |
brlcad |
``Erik: an
old one on CAD |
| 14:54.49 |
``Erik |
(ie on mac
has always been a bit iFruity O.o) |
| 14:54.55 |
MinuteElectron |
indeed |
| 14:55.02 |
brlcad |
before it was
NX of course |
| 14:55.12 |
``Erik |
do you know
if there're any big changes with library names, header names,
etc? |
| 14:55.28 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: yeah, i'm not concerned
about ie5mac, but it's good to know it doesn't work
there |
| 14:55.31 |
``Erik |
if I were to
wire the ug-g converter in on that box, would it apply up to nx 5?
(do ya'z know?) |
| 14:55.35 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
ok |
| 14:55.44 |
brlcad |
probably
doesn't work on netscape either |
| 14:56.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Currently
netscape uses the Mozilla engine IIRC. |
| 14:56.07 |
brlcad |
ideally,
there'd be some simplified site for the older browsers .. hmm,
maybe the pages made for the heavy load response |
| 14:56.26 |
MinuteElectron |
It is
basically just Firefox wrapped in Netscape rubbish. |
| 14:56.30 |
fleeky |
the site
looks really nice in firefox :) |
| 14:56.35 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: What
is the heavy load response? |
| 14:56.35 |
brlcad |
i mean like
netscape 3 on irix kind of old :) less than 1%
audience |
| 14:56.46 |
brlcad |
it's when the
site gets hit really hard |
| 14:56.49 |
``Erik |
heh, ns4 gold
might still be stumbled across, though |
| 14:57.07 |
brlcad |
like during a
/. reference, hundreds of visitors all of the sudden |
| 14:57.12 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: How
to set it up? |
| 14:57.22 |
brlcad |
the site
falls back (automatically) to a light version so it can keep
responding |
| 14:59.14 |
``Erik |
the db and
httpd's always seem to chew a nontrivial amount of cpu, and
there're one or two unrelated processes doing the same on that poor
old box O.o |
| 15:00.02 |
brlcad |
hmm,
MinuteElectron -- the statement on the Site Configuration panel,
"The following enabled modules are incompatible with aggressive
mode caching and will not function properly: logintoboggan,
throttle. |
| 15:00.27 |
MinuteElectron |
Hmm,
ok... |
| 15:00.53 |
MinuteElectron |
loggintoboggan was to remove the login
panel. |
| 15:00.59 |
MinuteElectron |
Not sure if
you still want that or not. |
| 15:01.15 |
MinuteElectron |
throttle is
probably insignificant with a captcha installed so could be removed
also |
| 15:01.38 |
MinuteElectron |
s/remove/rpalce |
| 15:01.53 |
brlcad |
heh, it's
saying logintoboggan is incompatible (meaning it's not working, or
at least not fully working) |
| 15:02.05 |
brlcad |
there should
have been a "content-means" to disable the login menu |
| 15:02.17 |
MinuteElectron |
ok... |
| 15:02.19 |
brlcad |
the way it
lets you add/remove content and blocks to various pages |
| 15:02.29 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh.. |
| 15:02.58 |
brlcad |
not that I
know specifically where that option is at the moment, this is all
slowly coming back to me |
| 15:03.49 |
brlcad |
aha, http://my.brlcad.org/d/admin/build/block |
| 15:03.55 |
brlcad |
there's the
throttle settings |
| 15:04.34 |
brlcad |
not sure what
that other message means specifically other than obviously saying
that the site will either return a cached page or a throttle
one |
| 15:05.25 |
brlcad |
that throttle
module just turns off portions of the site too, which might be good
enough |
| 15:05.36 |
fleeky |
has anyone
ever made something that could just scale / rotate / move /
duplicate / delete primitives and editing of the binary tree mini
app? |
| 15:06.26 |
fleeky |
with just
simple hotkeys .. |
| 15:06.31 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: So
you don't want logintoboggan and you want the login panel to appear
on every page except the main page? |
| 15:06.39 |
fleeky |
or is it
possible to script this into archer or mged ? |
| 15:07.27 |
brlcad |
fleeky: a few
little test/prototype apps have been written over the years that
have done pieces of that, though mged does do all of that (and is
fully scriptable) |
| 15:07.47 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: what is
logintoboggan? |
| 15:08.13 |
MinuteElectron |
The thing
that replaces the login panel with just a link. |
| 15:10.05 |
brlcad |
nah, keep it
.. it has several other nice features (like returning users to the
pages they logged in from) |
| 15:10.18 |
fleeky |
whats the
scripting language brlcad |
| 15:10.29 |
brlcad |
tcl |
| 15:10.31 |
brlcad |
or
shell |
| 15:10.33 |
brlcad |
or
both |
| 15:10.40 |
fleeky |
so you can do
it in the shell ? |
| 15:11.05 |
brlcad |
mged has a
"command mode" where it will run just one command for you, you can
wrap that in pretty much any other scripting language |
| 15:11.23 |
brlcad |
try this, for
example: mged -c file.g tops |
| 15:12.18 |
fleeky |
im in the
crappy windows version .. |
| 15:12.23 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 15:12.24 |
fleeky |
it just
starts |
| 15:12.37 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
nfg |
| 15:12.42 |
fleeky |
i would run
linux but this macbook pro has some weird formatting
crap |
| 15:12.48 |
fleeky |
nfg
? |
| 15:12.52 |
brlcad |
that 7.8.4 is
"incomplete" in many respsects |
| 15:12.53 |
brlcad |
~nfg |
| 15:12.56 |
fleeky |
ahhh |
| 15:13.04 |
fleeky |
can i do
builds with dev-cpp? |
| 15:13.19 |
brlcad |
should be
able to, but I haven't tried myself |
| 15:13.36 |
fleeky |
i would have
but im not experienced enough with it to make my own .dev
file |
| 15:13.44 |
brlcad |
full compiles
via cygwin are a little easier, but may require some option
tweaking |
| 15:13.44 |
fleeky |
which is
basically its version of makefiles |
| 15:13.59 |
fleeky |
damn |
| 15:14.36 |
brlcad |
there's no
full-time windows dev, so the platform doesn't get the love and
attention it needs |
| 15:14.47 |
fleeky |
ah |
| 15:15.01 |
brlcad |
that windows
port was made .. three years ago? |
| 15:15.07 |
fleeky |
lol |
| 15:15.24 |
fleeky |
i would
attempt to build it .. but it sounds like a headache waiting to
happen |
| 15:15.35 |
fleeky |
also im not
very experienced with doing builds in windows |
| 15:16.05 |
brlcad |
I really
should compile up a full rev under msys and replace the installer
(as I can get a *complete* build with msys/mingw) .. but I've just
been not motivated and way too busy with other tasks |
| 15:16.42 |
brlcad |
I had a full
compile under cygwin before the windows build was ever made in less
than a half-hour |
| 15:16.44 |
fleeky |
so question
how hard would it be to make hotkeys that do the following in mged
scale/rotate/move/duplicate objects |
| 15:16.56 |
brlcad |
but then I
know what options to feed it and the two or so files I had to
edit |
| 15:17.00 |
fleeky |
and then
hotkeys for changing the operation on a given leaf in a
tree |
| 15:18.34 |
brlcad |
mged has a
slew of hotkeys already, the issue is more that it's designed to be
a modal editor (ala vi/vim/whatever) so you explicitly enter edit
mode beforehand and then close with accept/reject
actions |
| 15:18.57 |
brlcad |
so the hotkey
would either only work in certain modes, or you'd have to auto
enter/exit the mode |
| 15:19.10 |
brlcad |
probably the
prior |
| 15:19.17 |
fleeky |
what about a
hotkey for entering edit mode |
| 15:19.18 |
fleeky |
ala
blender |
| 15:19.36 |
brlcad |
mm, that
already exists, iirc |
| 15:19.57 |
fleeky |
maybe not in
the windows build then hehe |
| 15:20.00 |
brlcad |
maybe l or
i |
| 15:20.46 |
fleeky |
and there are
hotkeys for scale/rotate / move / duplicate ? |
| 15:20.49 |
brlcad |
it's not just
"edit mode" it's edit mode on a particular object |
| 15:21.01 |
brlcad |
so it starts
with object selection in an illumination mode |
| 15:21.06 |
fleeky |
how much
editing can you do on each primitive ? |
| 15:21.35 |
fleeky |
ur |
| 15:21.40 |
fleeky |
i guess it
depends on the primitive forget it |
| 15:21.59 |
fleeky |
brl-cad can
have mesh objects as leafs in a tree right? |
| 15:22.37 |
brlcad |
ahh, the
hotkeys are o and s for object-edit and solid-edit mode
respectively |
| 15:22.49 |
brlcad |
yes, you
can |
| 15:22.49 |
``Erik |
technically,
but a slew of tools would freak out about them not being
solids |
| 15:22.56 |
fleeky |
ahh |
| 15:23.13 |
fleeky |
so object
edit is editing of the tree and solid edit is of the solid
prmitives? |
| 15:23.19 |
brlcad |
they're
called BoTs (bag of triangles) or NMGs for completely generic
polygonal surfaces |
| 15:23.31 |
``Erik |
all the nmg
stuff attempts to verify triangular crap to be completely
closed |
| 15:23.37 |
brlcad |
object edit
is applying matrix transforms |
| 15:23.45 |
fleeky |
oh |
| 15:23.45 |
``Erik |
thus the
obnoxious runtime of the nmg funcs :D *duck* |
| 15:23.58 |
fleeky |
so which edit
mode actually edits the tree |
| 15:24.08 |
brlcad |
solid edit is
changing primitive values (like making an torus have a bigger inner
diameter) |
| 15:24.12 |
fleeky |
yeah |
| 15:25.02 |
fleeky |
so there isnt
an edit mode for editing the tree then ? |
| 15:25.18 |
fleeky |
i guess for
tree editing you really need some kindof database menu
though |
| 15:25.21 |
brlcad |
yeah, meshes
are a royal pita when it comes to verifying and preserving solid
geometry, all sorts of bad things can and do happen |
| 15:25.38 |
fleeky |
so you can
see the heirarchy and such and be able to change the operation of
each leaf etc.. |
| 15:25.41 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean by editing the tree? |
| 15:25.51 |
brlcad |
matrix
transforms are object edit |
| 15:26.14 |
fleeky |
i mean
changing the tree of csg ops on all the different
primitives |
| 15:26.17 |
brlcad |
that
encompasses rotation, scale, moves |
| 15:26.20 |
fleeky |
i guess thats
a comb ? |
| 15:26.42 |
brlcad |
ah, changing
the csg itself .. |
| 15:27.04 |
fleeky |
btw i really
spent a good hour reading through the Dense
documentation |
| 15:27.14 |
fleeky |
but i must
admit i was quite daunted :) |
| 15:27.52 |
fleeky |
it seems like
so many things could be made a million times easier with simple
things like hotkeys , a solid-shaded visualizer , and a few
menus |
| 15:28.06 |
brlcad |
there's a
massive amount of material to cover, it is daunting .. even with a
good interface, learning the modeling environment would be
daunting |
| 15:28.14 |
fleeky |
like a
database menu that shows the whole csg tree and lets you play with
that |
| 15:28.27 |
fleeky |
nah the
modelling philosophy is not that bad |
| 15:28.33 |
fleeky |
i rather
enjoy it actually |
| 15:28.51 |
fleeky |
but just
getting things intoa fluid workflow is completely impossible at
this point |
| 15:28.56 |
brlcad |
it's a good
and bad thing .. the engine is all there for the "most" part ..
it's fully operational and there's quite a breadth of functionality
under that hood, but the interface is noticably jacked for helping
you learn/use it |
| 15:29.06 |
fleeky |
yeah |
| 15:29.07 |
fleeky |
hehe |
| 15:29.16 |
brlcad |
it's not
fluid until you've basically memorized a lot of stuff |
| 15:29.23 |
fleeky |
is there any
possibility of getting a current build of brlcad for windows btw
? |
| 15:29.26 |
brlcad |
it does get
fluid, but it's a pretty steep learning curve |
| 15:29.32 |
fleeky |
even if it
was just a .dev file i |
| 15:29.35 |
fleeky |
could compile
it myself |
| 15:29.38 |
``Erik |
amusingly
enough |
| 15:29.52 |
``Erik |
I'm updating
the cvs tree my winderz box can see with the intent of trying a
cyggy b uild |
| 15:29.58 |
brlcad |
most of the
expert brl-cad modelers are just as fluid in brl-cad as they are in
other CAD systems for most operations, it's just painful to get to
that point |
| 15:30.02 |
fleeky |
thanks erik
.. |
| 15:30.13 |
``Erik |
whether or
not it'll work is a different dealie |
| 15:30.22 |
brlcad |
even after
you go through ALL of the posted online docs, you're still
considered a newbie .. that's just the basics |
| 15:30.27 |
fleeky |
brlcad well
if i can figure out how to script in bash i might do
that |
| 15:30.32 |
fleeky |
yeah |
| 15:30.35 |
fleeky |
i quickly
realized that |
| 15:30.40 |
fleeky |
as the docs
explain ultra simple tasks |
| 15:30.52 |
fleeky |
i would also
like to see what the pros have made with brl-cad |
| 15:31.04 |
``Erik |
'havoc' is a
kinda neat model |
| 15:31.06 |
fleeky |
cause it
seems that even if you become fluid in the current app you still
wont be able to make anything very complicated very
fast |
| 15:31.13 |
``Erik |
there's a
truck we're trying to get permission to put in the repo |
| 15:31.24 |
fleeky |
although the
possibilities of procedural csg stuff really really interests
me |
| 15:31.43 |
fleeky |
erik if you
guys help me out with the interface i will make you some really
crazy stuff |
| 15:32.17 |
fleeky |
http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Highpoly.jpg |
| 15:32.22 |
fleeky |
i am atleast
not a noob at modelling |
| 15:32.25 |
fleeky |
well poly
modelling |
| 15:32.36 |
``Erik |
heh, the
interface is "expert friendly" and those of us being paid to hack
the software aren't allowed to really engage in any big revamping
activities on the gui... at least not on paid time :) |
| 15:33.00 |
brlcad |
fleeky: you
have this one in your example geometry folder< http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 15:33.37 |
``Erik |
fleeky: cool,
how many triangles and how much is bumpmapping? |
| 15:33.47 |
fleeky |
thats all
zbrush triangles |
| 15:33.49 |
``Erik |
(looks like
bumpmapping, not displacementmapping) |
| 15:33.51 |
fleeky |
its about 12
million |
| 15:34.03 |
fleeky |
give or
take |
| 15:34.20 |
``Erik |
I assume it
was decimated for the gmae? |
| 15:34.21 |
``Erik |
game |
| 15:34.22 |
fleeky |
although in
zbrush's hd geometry mode you typically paint on a one billion poly
surface |
| 15:34.29 |
fleeky |
i will get
you the ingame shots.. |
| 15:34.37 |
fleeky |
http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Placeholder-Player-Model |
| 15:34.38 |
fleeky |
ur |
| 15:34.50 |
fleeky |
http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Ingame_Screenshots |
| 15:34.53 |
fleeky |
there you
go |
| 15:34.54 |
``Erik |
<-- is
stumbling around the wiki |
| 15:34.59 |
brlcad |
fleeky:
another, http://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/t62c.jpg |
| 15:35.20 |
fleeky |
the tank is
pretty nice |
| 15:35.22 |
``Erik |
early stage
tech demo, I see |
| 15:35.23 |
brlcad |
every
wire/bolt/nut on the inside and outside are modeled there, it's not
just a skin |
| 15:35.31 |
fleeky |
but with a
proper interface i could make that *right* now |
| 15:35.51 |
brlcad |
doubtful with
the interior :) |
| 15:36.42 |
fleeky |
if you just
give me something that will let me do move / scale / rotate /
duplicate .. and then union / difference / subtract with nice
hotkeys then its not doubtful |
| 15:36.53 |
fleeky |
maybe move
along axis also *shrug* |
| 15:37.02 |
brlcad |
the other
difference is that it's an engineering model, it's accurate down
the the last detail, nothing is eyeballed |
| 15:37.03 |
fleeky |
like press
move + axis letter |
| 15:37.21 |
fleeky |
well im less
about that and more about detail |
| 15:37.33 |
brlcad |
it's doubtful
in the sense that you don't know what the interior of the vehicle
looks like :) |
| 15:37.34 |
fleeky |
im just
looking at it in terms of level of detail |
| 15:37.39 |
fleeky |
this is true
! |
| 15:38.28 |
fleeky |
i am not an
engineer .. im actually a circus performer |
| 15:38.37 |
``Erik |
there're
loads and loads of pictures of t62 interiors |
| 15:42.46 |
brlcad |
ah, here's
one http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png |
| 15:43.35 |
brlcad |
running all
of those pipes and cables accurately is hell in most
systems |
| 15:44.31 |
brlcad |
our best guys
often say that is one area where mged is actually better than most,
the ease at which they can route pipes exactly |
| 15:45.04 |
brlcad |
it can still
be better, though, it can always be better :) |
| 15:46.33 |
``Erik |
teh
fux |
| 15:46.37 |
``Erik |
they didn't
install all of cygwin |
| 15:46.58 |
``Erik |
and it's
blocked, bah |
| 15:50.03 |
fleeky |
erik |
| 15:50.12 |
fleeky |
if you walk
me through it i could try building it for you |
| 15:51.02 |
fleeky |
ive never
used cygwin before heh |
| 15:51.02 |
``Erik |
do you have a
full up cygwin install with a compiler and everything? |
| 15:51.11 |
fleeky |
no but i
could go and get it |
| 15:51.15 |
fleeky |
just tell me
what i need to install |
| 15:51.55 |
``Erik |
hm, cygwin,
um, with gcc installed (don't need g77, gobjc, or g++) ummmm,
shouldn't need perl |
| 15:52.06 |
brlcad |
the only
trick will be getting tcl mged to come up, classic mode is a breeze
but the display manager is erksome with tcl mged |
| 15:52.09 |
``Erik |
dunno if
you'd need the X stuff |
| 15:52.13 |
brlcad |
you will have
to turn off opengl, iirc |
| 15:52.31 |
``Erik |
<-- was
hoping to muddle through all that and 'fix' it in the config
scripts :) |
| 15:52.39 |
fleeky |
hrm |
| 15:52.44 |
brlcad |
if you want
wgl to build by default, you'll have to edit several things, it's
going to try/prefer x11 by default |
| 15:52.46 |
fleeky |
no opengl
makes me a sad monkey |
| 15:53.01 |
``Erik |
ogl won't buy
you anything, it's all wireframe |
| 15:53.02 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
mean what you think it means |
| 15:53.09 |
fleeky |
ah
doh |
| 15:53.22 |
fleeky |
you guys
really need a solid shaded mode :) |
| 15:53.33 |
``Erik |
yes, we do,
and if mgmt would let us, we'd work on it |
| 15:53.34 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 15:53.39 |
fleeky |
or atleast
have it so you can set the raytracer to render every few
milliseconds |
| 15:53.48 |
fleeky |
what who is
mgmt |
| 15:53.51 |
brlcad |
it's just
whether it's talking to the display via opengl protocol, or X11
protocol, or Win32 protocol, etc .. they're all interchangable and
fully functional |
| 15:53.52 |
``Erik |
the raytrace
isn't quite that fast |
| 15:53.53 |
fleeky |
ur management
? |
| 15:54.21 |
brlcad |
fleeky: that
list that I mentioned yesterday is needed for solid shaded
mode |
| 15:54.29 |
``Erik |
<-- paid
to work on BRL-CAD, kinda has to respect their priorities a tiny
little bit... :) |
| 15:54.35 |
brlcad |
that's why
it's fundamental for working on the new modeler |
| 15:55.02 |
``Erik |
heh,
awesome |
| 15:55.03 |
fleeky |
brlcad i
missed that link |
| 15:55.11 |
brlcad |
which
link? |
| 15:55.14 |
``Erik |
one tiny
little storm cell started up... over dundalk |
| 15:55.14 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:55.16 |
brlcad |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png
? |
| 15:55.40 |
fleeky |
i remember
you mentioning that solid shading was a fundamental problem
thogh |
| 15:55.53 |
brlcad |
it
is |
| 15:55.58 |
``Erik |
yes, we deal
in implicit solids all CSG'd together |
| 15:56.12 |
brlcad |
mathematical
differences between working with implicit and explicit geometric
representations |
| 15:56.13 |
``Erik |
solid shading
expects reduced triangle (or polygon) information |
| 15:56.53 |
``Erik |
almost every
modern opengl card only understands triangles lines and dots...
quads are converted to a trifan or tristrip on the fly |
| 15:57.30 |
fleeky |
why cant you
just convert the csg to a model on the fly |
| 15:57.40 |
fleeky |
eg to
quads/triangels |
| 15:57.53 |
fleeky |
ur im sure
its much easier than waving the magic feature wand.. but just
curious |
| 15:58.12 |
brlcad |
going from
implicit to explicit is usually a royal pita, going from explicit
to implicit is pretty much impossible without just
guessing |
| 15:58.13 |
``Erik |
it takes a
whole lot of computation to figure out where the boundries
are |
| 15:58.21 |
fleeky |
really? |
| 15:58.27 |
fleeky |
ive seen a
few implementations that do it |
| 15:58.27 |
brlcad |
that's the
whole task "just convert the csg to a polygonal model on the
fly" |
| 15:58.32 |
brlcad |
that "just"
is quite complex |
| 15:58.32 |
fleeky |
hehe |
| 15:58.41 |
fleeky |
yes i realize
that i didnt mean to trivialize it |
| 15:59.02 |
brlcad |
there aren't
many implementations other than commercial cad systems that do
this |
| 15:59.16 |
brlcad |
I know of
only two open source projects that "do this" and they have no user
interface |
| 15:59.21 |
``Erik |
and
qradiant/gtk-radiant's version is really crude and
hackish |
| 15:59.23 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 15:59.27 |
fleeky |
qwemodeller
does it |
| 15:59.42 |
brlcad |
it doesn
not |
| 15:59.51 |
brlcad |
it deals with
explicit models under the hood |
| 15:59.57 |
brlcad |
once you have
explicit, it's trivial |
| 16:00.07 |
fleeky |
http://spivak2.at.tut.by/qwemodel/index.htm |
| 16:00.11 |
fleeky |
oh |
| 16:00.30 |
fleeky |
im confused
whats the difference between what you have and explicit models
? |
| 16:00.50 |
``Erik |
to do, say, a
sphere |
| 16:00.51 |
brlcad |
yep, it's
doing CSG on something that's already turned into a parametric or
otherwise explicit surface representation that can be directly
evaluated |
| 16:00.56 |
``Erik |
we have a
point and a radius, that's it |
| 16:01.00 |
``Erik |
they have a
slew of triangles |
| 16:01.40 |
``Erik |
what that
sphere means depends... it could be a cutting tool, an adding tool,
... their triangles are always the final surface
representation |
| 16:01.42 |
fleeky |
ah i
see |
| 16:01.57 |
brlcad |
with an
implicit surface .. there is no surface (there is no spoon), at
least until you _evaluate_ it .. which is done in several ways, but
often expensive |
| 16:02.00 |
brlcad |
or
complicated |
| 16:02.06 |
fleeky |
hehe there is
no spoon |
| 16:02.23 |
fleeky |
so underneath
there not converting from implicit to explicit ? |
| 16:02.30 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 16:02.30 |
``Erik |
nope |
| 16:02.35 |
``Erik |
we raytrace
implicites |
| 16:02.40 |
brlcad |
just doing
csg on explicit (which was in that list I mentioned) ;) |
| 16:02.49 |
fleeky |
ah
ok |
| 16:02.55 |
fleeky |
i think my
brain is up to speed now |
| 16:03.12 |
fleeky |
i just need
to find a coder who can work on an explicit model implementation
for brl-cad then |
| 16:03.21 |
brlcad |
but csg on
explicits are a _lot_ easier .. and they're cheating with the video
card (a neat trick, but falls apart on large models) |
| 16:03.37 |
fleeky |
large models
means what ? |
| 16:03.38 |
brlcad |
pretty much
:) |
| 16:03.46 |
``Erik |
a couple
billion triangles? |
| 16:03.48 |
brlcad |
models that
can't be evaluated on the video card ;) |
| 16:03.48 |
``Erik |
worth? |
| 16:03.58 |
fleeky |
ah
ok |
| 16:04.01 |
fleeky |
thats not a
problem for me though |
| 16:04.11 |
brlcad |
nah, that
video card CSG evaluation trick falls apart *way* before a
billion |
| 16:04.15 |
fleeky |
as i am
interested in using this to make level geometry for a
game |
| 16:04.30 |
fleeky |
whats the
reason that it breaks down ? |
| 16:04.37 |
``Erik |
lack of video
memory? |
| 16:04.41 |
brlcad |
it's more
depth-limited, as there are several passes per depth of the csg
hierarchy |
| 16:04.49 |
fleeky |
what about
paging |
| 16:05.20 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't know the technique they use, kinda guessing :) |
| 16:05.20 |
brlcad |
after about
7-10 levels, the rendering is entirely non-interactive -- a "real"
model might be dozens of levels deep |
| 16:05.25 |
fleeky |
ok you have
to explain the depth-limiting a bit more .. does this mean how far
into the tree heirarchy you can go ? |
| 16:05.56 |
brlcad |
and it's
non-linear, you'd hose it up after just a few levels, and you can't
get the "resultant set" out of the card -- it's just for display
purposes |
| 16:06.25 |
brlcad |
i looked into
it for doing mged rendering .. it'd actually kinda work for small
models, certainly for most "parts/regions" |
| 16:06.31 |
fleeky |
well if it
can just display the model thats all i need .. we can later compute
export to a model format |
| 16:06.40 |
brlcad |
could have it
even fall back to wire at a known depth that will hose it, but I
don't want to work on mged |
| 16:07.30 |
brlcad |
the problem
is that computing export is the "bigger problem" .. that's harder
than just displaying it and none of the work put into displaying it
gets you any closer |
| 16:08.22 |
fleeky |
whats the
problem with that ? |
| 16:09.27 |
brlcad |
that's where
brep spline surfaces come to the rescue -- you can convert almost
all of our primitives to a brep spline surface representation
*faithfully* and instantly .. doing CSG on just brep spline
surfaces is hard but tractable .. going from evaluated CSG brep
spline surfaces to polygonal is .. trivial |
| 16:11.26 |
fleeky |
i assume
thats something like nurbs? |
| 16:11.41 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 16:12.10 |
fleeky |
ahk as that
is what i had imagined would be the middle man |
| 16:12.16 |
fleeky |
whats the dif
between brep spline and nurbs |
| 16:12.41 |
brlcad |
nurbs is a
spline surface representation, just one of several
types |
| 16:12.46 |
fleeky |
ah
ok |
| 16:12.55 |
brlcad |
brep spline
surface is just the "generalized" form |
| 16:12.57 |
``Erik |
and the
result would look a hell of a lot better than, say, shooting a ray
every 5 pixels across and five pixels down and doing hacky gouraud
shading between :D |
| 16:13.09 |
brlcad |
and
faster |
| 16:13.23 |
fleeky |
lol |
| 16:13.27 |
``Erik |
NURBS is
non-uniform rational b-spline |
| 16:13.55 |
brlcad |
although I've
been motivated to give that a try sometime too .. something like
what lee did with the point sampling, but make it
adaptive |
| 16:14.36 |
``Erik |
for 'flat'
areas, you could sample a lot less frequently, then increase sample
at the edges, kinda like ummmm, how marching cubes focuses
in |
| 16:14.45 |
fleeky |
hehe |
| 16:14.47 |
fleeky |
neato |
| 16:14.57 |
``Erik |
now |
| 16:15.03 |
brlcad |
basically
adaptive real-time rendering when the rays themselves get too
expensive to keep it doing fast enough |
| 16:15.18 |
fleeky |
basically
marching cubes but for raytracing ? |
| 16:15.22 |
brlcad |
i bet you
could even display something complex reasonably well
enough |
| 16:15.39 |
``Erik |
in theory,
it'd be a reasonably easy hack, if you can suffer the
rtprep |
| 16:15.50 |
fleeky |
trprep? |
| 16:16.04 |
brlcad |
maybe as one
of several "visualization mode" plugins in the new
modeler |
| 16:16.19 |
``Erik |
preparing the
geometry for raytracing... building the acceleration sturctures and
stuff |
| 16:16.20 |
brlcad |
maybe one of
the first ones if breps aren't finished this year |
| 16:16.23 |
fleeky |
so what is
the interface plan for the new modeller ? |
| 16:16.56 |
brlcad |
it's gonna be
a big curses-only gui |
| 16:17.26 |
brlcad |
ba-dum
*ching* |
| 16:17.29 |
fleeky |
hehe |
| 16:17.59 |
brlcad |
thank you,
thank you, I'm here all week |
| 16:18.03 |
brlcad |
try the
lobster bisque |
| 16:18.06 |
fleeky |
all year even
:) |
| 16:18.52 |
fleeky |
well i hope
you guys get working on this magic app |
| 16:19.00 |
fleeky |
ill try and
find some interested coders |
| 16:19.11 |
brlcad |
working every
day, just a problem of manpower and time :) |
| 16:19.19 |
``Erik |
curses???
damn, I was hoping for line feed :( |
| 16:19.26 |
``Erik |
the "ed" of
modelling |
| 16:19.44 |
brlcad |
website is
getting my attention these days as MinuteElectron's been the first
of many to actually "step up" and make excellent
progress |
| 16:20.31 |
``Erik |
fleeky: have
you gone through any of the tutorials yet? |
| 16:20.39 |
brlcad |
code-wise,
spent most of the last 8 months working on nurbs support (albeit
indirectly, but it sure still took up a lot of time) |
| 16:20.53 |
fleeky |
erik
yeah |
| 16:21.03 |
brlcad |
jason made
great progress, wish someone hadn't blown it for keeping him on
board |
| 16:21.12 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:21.23 |
fleeky |
i read
through enough of it to really hate the interface :) |
| 16:21.33 |
brlcad |
you learn to
love it ;) |
| 16:21.36 |
brlcad |
and hate
it |
| 16:21.41 |
fleeky |
nooo its not
what i need though |
| 16:21.46 |
brlcad |
it really is
powerful, just not very friendly |
| 16:21.55 |
fleeky |
powerful yes
in the command line sense |
| 16:22.05 |
``Erik |
it's kinda
designed for absolute precision, not visual ease |
| 16:22.12 |
fleeky |
yes this is
the problem |
| 16:22.19 |
``Erik |
depends on
what your purpose is |
| 16:22.21 |
fleeky |
im looking to
make level geometry with it .. for a game :( |
| 16:22.33 |
brlcad |
like a old
guru that will answer just about any question you have for it, and
send you on your way home magically |
| 16:22.34 |
fleeky |
quite complex
and vast level geometry |
| 16:22.38 |
fleeky |
but level
geometry nontheless |
| 16:22.40 |
brlcad |
but kick your
ass in the process |
| 16:22.41 |
``Erik |
if you're
trying to represent an existing thing faithfully, it's great, if
you're trying to slap out eye candy, not so much |
| 16:22.49 |
fleeky |
yep |
| 16:22.54 |
fleeky |
im trying to
slap |
| 16:23.40 |
brlcad |
hmm..
speaking of magic .. I should be playing a game today |
| 16:23.50 |
fleeky |
but it being
powerfull for its intended purpose is a good sign |
| 16:23.57 |
fleeky |
what game
/ |
| 16:24.10 |
``Erik |
and it's
kinda designed to represent military vehicles (big things, simple
shapes, flat surfaces, not many curves) more than anything
else |
| 16:24.25 |
brlcad |
fleeky: in
the big picture, even mged doesn't expose more than about 50% of
what brl-cad on the whole is capable of |
| 16:24.35 |
brlcad |
it wraps a
lot of functionality, but missed much too |
| 16:25.04 |
brlcad |
the new
system should do much much better at that wrapping, being
extensively more modular and working with the existing tools more
readily/automatically |
| 16:25.10 |
fleeky |
if you had
nurbs support with it you could all the curves you want
? |
| 16:25.37 |
brlcad |
sure, nurbs
are the best at curvature |
| 16:25.54 |
brlcad |
but you have
to expose that via the editor too, which is tricky in
itself |
| 16:26.04 |
fleeky |
what do you
mean expose ? |
| 16:26.14 |
``Erik |
make
accessable |
| 16:26.32 |
brlcad |
when we talk
about implementing nurbs support, i'm talking (at this point) about
just fundamental representation, just being able to *have* a nurbs
object, able to render and evaluate it |
| 16:26.33 |
fleeky |
i
see |
| 16:26.58 |
brlcad |
being able to
actually manipulate and edit that surface is an entirely separate
issue and is mostly gui issues |
| 16:27.03 |
``Erik |
we have
primitives that can exist, be imported, exported, raytraced,
converted... but cannot be edited in mged |
| 16:27.11 |
fleeky |
hehe |
| 16:27.22 |
fleeky |
thats highly
funny |
| 16:27.32 |
brlcad |
that said, if
it's implicit primitives that are just using nurbs for
visualization, you wouldn't need to know .. you'd just see the
objects and edit their implicit paramters |
| 16:27.51 |
fleeky |
its like i
have this hamburger i can make it for you but you cant eat
it |
| 16:28.17 |
``Erik |
not that
funny *shrug* the need was to import the geometry and raytrace
it... the need wasn't to edit it... *shrug* so people were told to
do that much and then go on to the next task |
| 16:28.29 |
fleeky |
ah |
| 16:28.38 |
brlcad |
there's
representation, visualization, and manipulation .. and various
levels of each .. all independent problems |
| 16:28.51 |
``Erik |
and editing
got put on the 'todo' list |
| 16:30.06 |
brlcad |
representation is the basic structure(s)
in memory; visualization is wireframe, ray-tracing, and eventually
opengl shaded displays; manipulation is gui editing support
(picking points/curves, editing parameters) |
| 16:31.06 |
fleeky |
yeah quite a
lot of work |
| 16:32.16 |
``Erik |
one of the
neat aspects of having things broken out all nifty like that is if
someone wanted to make a modeller, they could build it ontop of the
representation using our libraries and be
interoperable... |
| 16:32.23 |
``Erik |
'archer' is
kinda an example of that |
| 16:32.57 |
fleeky |
speaking of
archer |
| 16:33.00 |
fleeky |
is there any
docs for it ? |
| 16:33.03 |
fleeky |
i didnt see
any |
| 16:33.09 |
fleeky |
when i went
to brlcad.org |
| 16:33.16 |
fleeky |
or whatever
the url is hehe |
| 16:34.20 |
fleeky |
ahk
hehe |
| 16:34.28 |
fleeky |
cause at
first i thought archer would be what i needed |
| 16:34.45 |
``Erik |
I think it's
kinda more of a prototype |
| 16:34.47 |
fleeky |
and then i
got stuck trying to figure out how it worked and then i didnt find
the docs |
| 16:34.49 |
fleeky |
ah
ok |
| 16:35.02 |
fleeky |
do you know
how to make csg stuff from it ? |
| 16:35.21 |
fleeky |
the farthest
i got was just making primitives and the combs were confusing me as
to how the worked exactly |
| 16:35.41 |
``Erik |
heh, no? I
saw a demo where they slapped together a basic tank really fast...
but I haven't used it... I started it up, saw there was a gui there
and quit it... (testing on fbsd) |
| 16:35.58 |
fleeky |
lol |
| 16:40.35 |
brlcad |
you sort of
have to know mged before archer can be useful, but it was designed
as an eventual replacement |
| 16:40.54 |
brlcad |
it does
"clean up" most of the things that mged leaves to be
desired |
| 16:41.20 |
brlcad |
giving you
gui panels and command line for most things that you'd want:
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png |
| 16:41.31 |
fleeky |
yeah |
| 16:41.36 |
fleeky |
i like the
interface for it |
| 16:42.07 |
fleeky |
i just dont
understand combs really and when i try to edit things once ive
combined them in a comb things start messing up very
nicely |
| 16:42.35 |
brlcad |
it's actually
using an "embedded mged" in there, just to show you some of that
reusability |
| 16:42.53 |
fleeky |
ah .. i like
how i can see a shaded preview in it also :) |
| 16:43.14 |
brlcad |
ah, see you'd
have that issue regardless, as understanding combs is pretty
fundamental/basic -- you'd have an understanding of combs after the
tutorial series |
| 16:43.49 |
brlcad |
though it
basically amounts to "it's a single node in the
hierarchy" |
| 16:43.54 |
fleeky |
well i know
enough to union |
| 16:44.16 |
fleeky |
and i assume
you can have multiple combs doing different stuff |
| 16:44.32 |
brlcad |
a whole
hierarchy of them doing different things :) |
| 16:44.33 |
fleeky |
i just forget
the subtraction command |
| 16:44.36 |
fleeky |
there is u -
and ? |
| 16:44.41 |
brlcad |
+ |
| 16:44.43 |
fleeky |
ah thats
it |
| 16:45.12 |
brlcad |
which I don't
like frankly.. I'd probably use + for union, - for subtraction, and
x for intersection myself |
| 16:45.28 |
brlcad |
but that
predates me by over a decade |
| 16:45.40 |
fleeky |
the only
confusing thing is when i make the comb its as if the graphics
buffer isnt cleared and if i try moving stuff around it doesnt
move.. but then if i change the shading to wireframe again it moves
.. but as if it created a new version of the comb that is overtop
and if i change it back its like there are two instances of the
comb in the viewer |
| 16:46.13 |
fleeky |
i use the
term graphics buffer very loosely |
| 16:46.19 |
fleeky |
just trying
to explain what i see |
| 16:46.31 |
brlcad |
in archer
yes? |
| 16:46.34 |
fleeky |
yes |
| 16:46.54 |
brlcad |
it would be
just a simple matter of it actually being a bug (remember that
archer is also 3 years old there) |
| 16:47.00 |
fleeky |
omg |
| 16:47.03 |
fleeky |
blah |
| 16:47.08 |
fleeky |
makes using
it basically impossible ;) |
| 16:47.09 |
brlcad |
i'm not
saying it is, I have no idea |
| 16:47.19 |
brlcad |
could be the
way you're using it |
| 16:47.29 |
brlcad |
but you're
working with alpha software there, not even beta |
| 16:48.14 |
fleeky |
yeah |
| 16:48.16 |
fleeky |
sig |
| 16:48.17 |
brlcad |
it was added
to help inspire some devs to improve upon it, show what's possible
with a new interface, etc |
| 16:48.17 |
fleeky |
sigh |
| 16:49.08 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: include the
sources in the dist, even if not built |
| 16:49.11 |
fleeky |
well they
atleast succeeded in making a prettyy nice interface |
| 16:49.37 |
``Erik |
hrm, I may've
done that backwards |
| 16:50.15 |
fleeky |
one thing
that would be nice though is if it would just make a default comb
for you .. and whenever you clicked on a primitive it would be
automatically added to that comb unless you deselected the
comb |
| 16:50.16 |
brlcad |
someone
interested could rather quickly make archer into a usable interface
.. faster even than it'll take to come up with the new
interface |
| 16:50.26 |
brlcad |
it's just not
in the direction I'd like to go for the long-term |
| 16:50.35 |
fleeky |
what dont you
like about it |
| 16:50.39 |
``Erik |
someone
interested who is a tcl guru... archer is all tcl iirc |
| 16:51.05 |
fleeky |
lol |
| 16:51.11 |
brlcad |
it's
predominantly in incrTcl aside from the plugged-in mged portions
from C |
| 16:51.43 |
fleeky |
ah
ok |
| 16:51.52 |
fleeky |
yeah it would
be better if it was code rather than script |
| 16:51.57 |
brlcad |
``Erik: did
you test that massive library changeover on several platforms first
(at least bsd, mac, linux?) |
| 16:51.58 |
``Erik |
<-- likes
the notion of having several different gui modelers, just pick the
gui closest to your task at hand... doesn't like the notion of
maintaining a bunch of guis :D |
| 16:52.11 |
fleeky |
although for
me i would rather have something now that doesnt work as good then
something good that works in 2 years :) |
| 16:52.17 |
``Erik |
erm, what
massive library changeover? |
| 16:52.41 |
brlcad |
it was nasty
repetition, but it 'worked' on all the platforms .. i'm highly
suspicious that you broke the build somewhere |
| 16:52.48 |
brlcad |
the one from
thurs/friday |
| 16:53.01 |
``Erik |
oh, I hit it
on bsd, mac, linux, irix and solaris |
| 16:53.09 |
brlcad |
okay,
cool |
| 16:53.19 |
brlcad |
so then the
only thing that broke was M3 :) |
| 16:53.51 |
``Erik |
ok, so I
brought the BRL-CAD component of M3 into complience with the rest
of M3's state. |
| 16:53.57 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 16:54.06 |
brlcad |
they *have*
to be nil libraries because M3 isn't setting an LD_LIB_PATH to
anything |
| 16:54.52 |
brlcad |
tcl is still
going to come up unresolved now that they're not static, but I'll
probably just have them manually install it or
something |
| 16:54.54 |
``Erik |
in theory,
libtool SHOULD add an rpath to the ELF header for dependant
libraries... |
| 16:55.23 |
``Erik |
hrm, I don't
think I un-staticked tcl |
| 16:55.54 |
``Erik |
my bigarsed
commit was to fix breakage for certain breeds of leenewx
O.o |
| 16:56.01 |
``Erik |
and to clean
things up a bit :) |
| 16:57.19 |
brlcad |
i un-static'd
it a few months ago iirc |
| 16:57.57 |
brlcad |
oh, I don't
mind .. i hated the duplication -- it was a hack that was just
guaranteed to work at the time |
| 16:58.23 |
brlcad |
it's more
whether it actually fixed anything or if it was cosmetic and likely
to break the build elsewhere |
| 16:58.33 |
brlcad |
finiky
versions of libtool notwithstanding |
| 16:58.52 |
``Erik |
the missing X
stuff that was reported on ubuntu |
| 16:58.55 |
``Erik |
I saw that on
debian |
| 16:59.16 |
``Erik |
so that's
what tripped me off on that |
| 16:59.24 |
``Erik |
thursday, I
wasn't in on friday |
| 16:59.36 |
``Erik |
er, wait,
yeah I was, it musta been friday |
| 17:00.32 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: we do have (or at least
did in the past) have permission to use the Mac OS X logo, and of
course the Linux penguin 'logo' |
| 17:00.32 |
brlcad |
not sure
about the windows logo, would have to check or make something
new |
| 17:00.49 |
brlcad |
bsd needs to
be in the list with the little demon dude |
| 17:01.30 |
brlcad |
4 bsd logos
is overkill unless it's going to be a bsd-specific download
page |
| 17:01.42 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Can
we not just use the Windows Logo under fair-use? |
| 17:02.01 |
``Erik |
*shrug* they
may've forked from the same tree, but hey, solaris hpux and aix
forked from that same tree |
| 17:02.02 |
brlcad |
it's not
clear how fair use applies in that case |
| 17:02.08 |
MinuteElectron |
ok... |
| 17:02.50 |
``Erik |
beastie
represents original bsd, bsdlite, and freebsd, but openbsd is
puffer, netbsd is who the fuck knows what, dragonfly is a dragonfly
... :) |
| 17:03.19 |
brlcad |
"Do not use
the Windows logo on or in connection with products, packaging,
manuals, promotional and advertising materials, or Web sites for
any purpose except pursuant to an express written trademark license
from Microsoft. See the Logo Programs page for more
details." |
| 17:03.34 |
``Erik |
ok |
| 17:03.43 |
``Erik |
lets get a
picture of a bsod, scale it down, and use that. |
| 17:03.47 |
``Erik |
everyone will
know we mean windows |
| 17:03.47 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 17:03.49 |
brlcad |
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/logo/programs.mspx |
| 17:04.33 |
brlcad |
the new
freebsd logo is slick enough to represent, http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html |
| 17:04.44 |
``Erik |
meh |
| 17:05.20 |
``Erik |
looks like
some tard sucked apples corporate wang and that's what shot out,
lacks the charm of the cartoon character :D *duck* |
| 17:06.21 |
brlcad |
meh, the
cartoon had no polish appeal, made it really hard to take it
serious at least perception-wise |
| 17:06.35 |
``Erik |
who cares
about poland? :D |
| 17:06.36 |
``Erik |
*duck* |
| 17:06.59 |
``Erik |
I mean, um,
just as polished as tux? :D |
| 17:07.28 |
brlcad |
tux has the
same problem, that's why most commercial distros hide the fat
bastard |
| 17:09.08 |
brlcad |
and even for
those that don't.. it's slightly easy to swallow than a little
devil with a pitchfork for most folks |
| 17:09.29 |
``Erik |
heh,
true |
| 17:09.57 |
``Erik |
used to be
around once a month some troll would hit the fbsd mailing lists
asking why we were all devil worshippers and satanists and god will
throw us all to hell blah blah blah |
| 17:11.17 |
brlcad |
exactly,
that's just distracting no matter what your religious inclination
is |
| 17:11.58 |
``Erik |
<-- just
being antagonistic today :) just like every day |
| 17:15.07 |
``Erik |
*ponder* |
| 17:15.24 |
``Erik |
should we
have an 8 branch, or should we have a 7 branch and call head the
new 8? |
| 17:29.53 |
MinuteElectron |
``Erik: Just
my opinion, completely unwarrented probably, but on a programming
projects I am relatively active on we use head for non-released
stuff (e.g. your version 8) and branches for versions that have
been released. Quite effective I find, although the project I am
refering to works by adding features to head and only adding
security\major bug fixes to release branches. |
| 17:31.08 |
MinuteElectron |
s/projects/project |
| 17:31.27 |
MinuteElectron |
We probably
use a different release structure anyway so maybe
irrelevant. |
| 17:32.35 |
``Erik |
that's kinda
the approach I'm used to and like, minute... (freebsd is a good
model) |
| 17:32.48 |
MinuteElectron |
heh |
| 17:33.09 |
``Erik |
but there's a
line in the TODO that suggests making an 8 branch for 'cutting
edge' and making head the front line of 7... which is what I'm
contesting here :D |
| 17:33.57 |
brlcad |
the problem
is that I don't expect 8 for probably two years *at best*, with
many releases in between with major efforts |
| 17:34.38 |
brlcad |
8 is more
experimental at this point, hence branch instead of head --
otherwise it would be just done |
| 17:34.40 |
``Erik |
fbsd has HEAD
as total bleeding edge, each major has a branch, each minor has a
branch off of its major, and patches are tagged, with lots of MFC
activity |
| 17:35.07 |
brlcad |
bsd has/had
an EXPERIMENTAL branch too |
| 17:35.28 |
``Erik |
it's had
many, but most of that has been moved to private CVS and
perforce |
| 17:35.32 |
brlcad |
that's
effectively what 8 is, just naming it for that feature |
| 17:36.20 |
``Erik |
mebbe the
branch should be BREAKS_DB so it can be re-used for the next major
O.o |
| 17:36.33 |
brlcad |
regardless,
what they did isn't necessarily the god model either, just to be
noted .. head imo should be where most of the effort is
going |
| 17:36.49 |
brlcad |
at that is 7
right now, and will be 7 for a long time still |
| 17:36.57 |
``Erik |
how many
things are going to break the db format? |
| 17:37.07 |
brlcad |
yet I'd like
to start on a few 8 things in the meantime, so .. a
branch |
| 17:37.31 |
``Erik |
<-- just
doesn't like the notion of using a version number in an
experimental branch *shrug* |
| 17:38.21 |
brlcad |
that sounds
like an entirely personal issue :) |
| 17:38.32 |
brlcad |
it's not like
it'd be just called "8" |
| 17:38.38 |
brlcad |
though that
would be kind of funny |
| 17:39.47 |
brlcad |
it'd follow
the branch naming guidelines, probably rel-8-branch or even
something generic like EXPERIMENTAL |
| 17:40.04 |
``Erik |
(of course, I
also think tags should be entirely [A-Z0-9_]) |
| 17:40.07 |
MinuteElectron |
Do you even
hav any branches yet? |
| 17:40.43 |
``Erik |
yup |
| 17:42.27 |
``Erik |
9 so
far |
| 17:42.55 |
brlcad |
that's just
because you have lots of personal bias/religion that have little
technical foundation :P |
| 17:42.55 |
brlcad |
about as
useful as arguing over 2 space indents vs 4 |
| 17:42.55 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
matter so long as it's consistent |
| 17:42.55 |
brlcad |
which is why
there's a naming convention in place and it is pretty much
consistent now |
| 17:42.55 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: the windows port was a
relatively major branch effort |
| 17:42.57 |
brlcad |
as was the
upgrade to ansi C syntax |
| 17:43.40 |
MinuteElectron |
Is there a
secret subversion\cvs server somewhere? |
| 17:43.44 |
MinuteElectron |
I don't see
any branches. |
| 17:44.28 |
brlcad |
cvs status -v
README | grep branch |
| 17:44.33 |
``Erik |
any tag that
has 4 numbers instead of 2 is a branch |
| 17:44.58 |
MinuteElectron |
I haven't got
it checked out anywhere at the moment. |
| 17:45.29 |
``Erik |
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/ |
| 17:45.34 |
``Erik |
look at the
sticky tag dropdown |
| 17:45.37 |
brlcad |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7572c566 |
| 17:45.38 |
MinuteElectron |
I
know. |
| 17:45.42 |
MinuteElectron |
But I can't
grep. |
| 17:45.47 |
``Erik |
huh, there
were branches that configure.ac wasn't in |
| 17:45.51 |
*** join/#brlcad |jenda|
(n=Kopr@r6dj122.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:46.04 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, I
see. |
| 17:46.09 |
``Erik |
if you do the
sticky branch dropdown, it'll say "Branches" with a list, then
"Non-brnach tags" with a list |
| 17:46.12 |
MinuteElectron |
It is me
getting too used to subversion. |
| 17:46.29 |
MinuteElectron |
I have never
even used cvs so don't know the ins and outs. |
| 17:46.44 |
brlcad |
that's
probably a good thing |
| 17:47.09 |
brlcad |
less than
four months remaining! |
| 17:47.13 |
MinuteElectron |
I would never
use cvs if I had the choice. |
| 17:47.17 |
MinuteElectron |
4 months till
what? |
| 17:47.39 |
MinuteElectron |
christmas? |
| 17:47.48 |
MinuteElectron |
lol - I have
to go, dinner. |
| 17:47.53 |
brlcad |
I've had the
conversion to Subversion planned for quite a while .. "before the
end of the year" |
| 17:48.10 |
brlcad |
which is this
year, so within four months we'll be on svn |
| 17:48.58 |
brlcad |
probably
month after next as soon as this next release is rolled
out |
| 17:50.40 |
``Erik |
heh, I had
some bad experiences with svn a while back, but it does have some
nice features... *shrug* |
| 18:04.12 |
MinuteElectron |
svn>cvs |
| 18:04.18 |
MinuteElectron |
any
day |
| 18:04.55 |
``Erik |
hehehe, if
you've never used cvs, how do ya know? :D |
| 18:05.10 |
MinuteElectron |
because cvs
is a hore to use |
| 18:05.33 |
``Erik |
erm, svn is
made so all the commands are almost identical? |
| 18:05.48 |
MinuteElectron |
I have
checked out brlcad before. But I haven't really "used
it". |
| 18:06.32 |
MinuteElectron |
It has
benefits, the thing I hate about cvs is it doesn't use plain and
simple directory structure. |
| 18:06.46 |
``Erik |
howso? |
| 18:07.01 |
MinuteElectron |
modules |
| 18:07.04 |
MinuteElectron |
stickies |
| 18:07.24 |
``Erik |
ah, those're
tags, that's one thing that drives me up the wall with
svn |
| 18:07.46 |
``Erik |
having to
remember to append /trunk if I want the latest, sheesh |
| 18:07.51 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 18:15.32 |
MinuteElectron |
And is that 1
million lines of source code thing real? |
| 18:15.42 |
MinuteElectron |
s/1
million/over a million |
| 18:15.56 |
``Erik |
? |
| 18:16.05 |
MinuteElectron |
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 18:18.38 |
MinuteElectron |
So I have 5
out of 6 logos ready. Not sure where I can get a decent copy of the
IRIX cube from though. Appears IRIX is EOP. |
| 18:19.44 |
MinuteElectron |
The only ones
I can find are tiny, and it is a bit silly having a tiny logo in
the middle of a box. |
| 18:21.30 |
MinuteElectron |
I am glad I
have done this, will be quite useful for this and in the future on
projects I am doing at the moment. |
| 18:21.58 |
MinuteElectron |
I have to go,
but I will add transparency and upload when I get back in an
hour. |
| 18:24.33 |
``Erik |
how
big? |
| 18:25.25 |
``Erik |
something
like http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/images/c/cd/Sgi_cube_logo.png
? |
| 18:33.58 |
*** join/#brlcad fleeky
(n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) |
| 18:43.24 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: yes, it's quite true ..
more than a million |
| 18:45.42 |
brlcad |
the biggest
win for svn is that it actually operates with changesets instead of
per-dir actions, tracks file moves and renames, and actually tracks
directories |
| 18:46.34 |
brlcad |
those are
three things you simply cannot do in cvs without resorting to
various usage conventions, conventions which are particularly
error-prone |
| 18:47.22 |
brlcad |
the rest is
gravy (http access, better user auth, mime types, eol-tracking,
better binary diff management, etc) |
| 18:48.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (Makefile.am tie.c
tie_kdtree.c): move to old C comments so we can remove the -std=c99
cflag |
| 18:51.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c):
wrap stdint.h (fix for solaris) |
| 18:55.18 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (dfft.c syn.c): remove the
"complex.h" include |
| 19:03.29 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 19:03.41 |
``Erik |
? |
| 19:03.41 |
brlcad |
~``Erik++ |
| 19:04.01 |
brlcad |
fixing the
libtie build flag sillyness |
| 19:04.14 |
``Erik |
the only
issue was c++ style comments |
| 19:04.35 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 19:04.42 |
``Erik |
sed -i.bak
's,//\(.*\),/*& */,' *.[ch] |
| 19:04.42 |
brlcad |
why doesn't
that surprise me |
| 19:04.46 |
``Erik |
where's my
cake and medal? |
| 19:04.46 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 19:04.47 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 19:05.46 |
``Erik |
-std=c99 was
breaking the build on slowaris, sys/int_types.h refused to define
uint64_t if any stdc was defined... |
| 19:06.51 |
``Erik |
weird way of
doing it, too... #if __STDC__ - 0 ||
!defined(_LONGLONG) |
| 19:06.54 |
``Erik |
something of
that nature |
| 19:07.33 |
``Erik |
aaanyways,
got a full build on solaris, installing now, then will beat on mged
a little and run bench there just to verify.... heh |
| 19:09.16 |
brlcad |
cool, maybe
we can finally update that version number :) |
| 19:09.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: |
| 19:09.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
librtserver needs to be able to have all brl-cad symbols resolved,
must use the |
| 19:09.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
not-installed-libraries for the LIBADD. tcl will still fail if a
suitable |
| 19:09.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
libtcl is not installed in a standard system search path (and it's
too much of |
| 19:09.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: an
unmaintainable pita to make a libtcl_nil). |
| 19:10.08 |
``Erik |
irix and
debian are both still giving me issues :/ |
| 19:13.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: silly coder,
this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope |
| 19:15.09 |
``Erik |
pheer the
awesome might of TWO 180mhz r10k's O.o |
| 19:15.38 |
brlcad |
care of irix,
it has a few false-positive failures that are compiler
bugs |
| 19:16.05 |
brlcad |
one being
long rpaths if it's a lib probablem |
| 19:16.14 |
``Erik |
I may be
running into that right now |
| 19:16.28 |
``Erik |
missing X
symbols was one thing that scrolled by |
| 19:17.30 |
``Erik |
speaking of,
I have a similar bug in fbsd to fix, the /etc/group parser is
hardcoded [512], and silently truncates :/ |
| 19:17.46 |
``Erik |
here on our
darkside, we have group lists lmore than 512 characters |
| 19:24.31 |
brlcad |
which
parser? |
| 19:24.45 |
brlcad |
a cad tool
that actually reads /etc/group? |
| 19:24.50 |
``Erik |
nooo, in
freebsd |
| 19:24.54 |
``Erik |
in libc I
think |
| 19:24.56 |
brlcad |
ooh |
| 19:25.18 |
``Erik |
btw, made
/p/tmp on 'that old irix machine' |
| 19:25.20 |
brlcad |
aah, gotcha
.. mistook what you read |
| 19:26.37 |
``Erik |
those didn't
look like there was much space available, /p has plenty of unused
space |
| 19:27.12 |
``Erik |
otherwise, I
usually use something like /usr/tmp/erik/brlcadbuild (or
/usr/tmp/erik/brlcadbuildall) |
| 19:27.57 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.16 |
brlcad |
either way,
what you picked was good too |
| 19:28.40 |
``Erik |
~375
megs? |
| 19:28.44 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 19:29.11 |
``Erik |
just in case
you're surprised to see the existance of /p/tmp mode
1777 |
| 19:29.15 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 19:29.58 |
brlcad |
that's
because it's got a full cad build in there from the last time i'd
tested |
| 19:33.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/pixdsplit.c liboptical/photonmap.c):
should only be using common.h, not brlcad_config.h |
| 19:39.08 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (19 files in 11 dirs): should
only be using common.h, not brlcad_config.h |
| 19:39.32 |
MinuteElectron |
``Erik: Wow,
where'd you find that? |
| 19:39.44 |
``Erik |
google
images? |
| 19:40.03 |
MinuteElectron |
what did you
search for? |
| 19:40.11 |
``Erik |
"irix
logo" |
| 19:40.12 |
MinuteElectron |
I only found
bad resolution ones on google. |
| 19:40.28 |
``Erik |
then filtered
on size (large had nothing, but medium had that a couple pages
in) |
| 19:40.28 |
MinuteElectron |
interesting |
| 19:40.29 |
brlcad |
someone
modeled that in brl-cad once |
| 19:40.40 |
``Erik |
heh, g_pipe
yo |
| 19:41.06 |
MinuteElectron |
Wow, and it
is almost perfect size. |
| 19:41.13 |
MinuteElectron |
128x125 and I
wanted 128x128 |
| 19:41.24 |
brlcad |
heh, yeah,
though it's a near-zero-radius turn |
| 19:42.49 |
``Erik |
bench on
slowaris looks like the results are correct... the expected 74 off
by one on m35 |
| 19:42.54 |
``Erik |
(using
gcc) |
| 19:46.08 |
brlcad |
nifty,
http://www.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sgilogo.png |
| 19:49.41 |
``Erik |
model looks
about right, but the angle is wrong :) |
| 19:49.50 |
*** join/#brlcad fleeky
(n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) |
| 19:59.42 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:23.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877B59.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:32.52 |
``Erik |
oh... now
that's fucking lovely |
| 20:36.36 |
``Erik |
debian (and
I'd guess ubuntu by extension) patch and ugly break into their
libtool. |
| 20:37.14 |
poolio |
mmm debian
packages. |
| 20:37.35 |
``Erik |
s/d u/
u/ |
| 20:48.31 |
``Erik |
if I autogen
on a nondebian machine, it builds ok... if I autogen on the dbeian
machine, I get unresolved symbols. those assclowns.
*fume* |
| 20:52.27 |
brlcad |
woot,
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/sgi.png |
| 20:53.33 |
brlcad |
not too
surprising, and explains some of the debian errors i've
seen |
| 20:53.37 |
MinuteElectron |
nice |
| 20:54.20 |
MinuteElectron |
I hate magic
wand transparency, it never works. http://my.brlcad.org/d/downloads |
| 20:55.07 |
brlcad |
heh, it
works.. it just doesn't work the way you think it works
:) |
| 20:55.18 |
MinuteElectron |
what? |
| 20:55.26 |
brlcad |
magic
wand |
| 20:55.29 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, I
see. |
| 20:55.30 |
MinuteElectron |
lol |
| 20:56.19 |
brlcad |
for that,
though -- just cheat |
| 20:56.26 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
text-align, left or center. |
| 20:56.34 |
brlcad |
put them in a
white/grey box |
| 20:56.38 |
MinuteElectron |
ok. |
| 20:58.30 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: the
logos and the text, or just the text? |
| 20:58.54 |
MinuteElectron |
oh, I
see. |
| 21:16.54 |
MinuteElectron |
:) http://my.brlcad.org/d/downloads |
| 21:18.18 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
:) |
| 21:19.07 |
brlcad |
hehe, much
better :) |
| 21:19.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/Makefile.am
libdm/Makefile.am): the opengl knobs assume X is handy (wgl knob is
used for windows) |
| 21:20.01 |
poolio |
make 'em
transparent :) |
| 21:20.10 |
MinuteElectron |
They arem
just not properly. |
| 21:20.14 |
MinuteElectron |
s/m/, |
| 21:21.57 |
brlcad |
``Erik: hm ..
the direction there is to make just one symbol per interface so
only one configure option per interface is needed as
well |
| 21:22.15 |
brlcad |
it could just
as readily be named x11opengl but it's just a label |
| 21:22.50 |
``Erik |
meh, I'm
tired and about to leave, just fixing an irix link error (cropped
up in rttherm) |
| 21:23.03 |
``Erik |
I'll try to
remember to clean it up tomorrow O.o but it works now and didn't
before, so *shrug* |
| 21:24.04 |
brlcad |
i realized
that, just letting you know the direction .. |
| 21:24.10 |
``Erik |
aight |
| 21:24.24 |
brlcad |
the problem
right now is tying them to with/enable features |
| 21:24.51 |
``Erik |
bbi45 or
so |
| 21:25.21 |
brlcad |
there really
should probably be just an --enable-libfb="ogl x11" or similar and
the --with-x11 and --with-opengl options just help find
stuff |
| 21:25.59 |
brlcad |
same for
--enable-libdm |
| 21:26.17 |
brlcad |
or collapse
them into one --enable-interface |
| 21:31.33 |
brlcad |
woot2,
http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/sgi.png |
| 21:31.58 |
brlcad |
didn't add
light sources yet, but close enough .. that was a fun lil
script |
| 21:46.44 |
MinuteElectron |
Ok, site
nearly finished. But is in a bit of a bad state. Will finish
tomorrow. |
| 21:53.14 |
|jenda| |
nkj |
| 23:26.51 |
brlcad |
my feelings
exactly |jenda| |
| 23:36.41 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.173.238) |
| 00:21.23 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 02:05.53 |
starseeker |
They're going
to fight hard to insist on no internal copies of libraries.
Grr... |
| 02:06.12 |
starseeker |
Or I should
say, it may depend on who we can interest... |
| 02:07.16 |
louipc |
tell them to
fix it then they'll turn around :D |
| 02:08.08 |
louipc |
on the other
hand if they succeed great! |
| 02:09.30 |
starseeker |
Sean's got it
in good shape - we just need to get TCL 8.5 and all its friends to
release stable versions. |
| 02:10.22 |
starseeker |
I'm still
unclear if there are one or two cases where it's just a full-on
name conflict. |
| 02:11.00 |
louipc |
between 8.4
and 8.5? |
| 02:11.03 |
starseeker |
If we have to
depend on an unstable tcl, brl-cad will remain masked. And it
sounds like some of the Gentoo devs think that's how it shoudl
be |
| 02:11.10 |
starseeker |
no, between
other libs |
| 02:11.26 |
louipc |
oh you mean
for installing in /usr/lib* |
| 02:11.31 |
starseeker |
I'm arguing
for /usr/brlcad or /opt/brlcad for an install path, and a lot of
them are going to want it in there |
| 02:11.51 |
louipc |
yeah I put it
in /opt/brlcad for archlinux |
| 02:12.00 |
starseeker |
It's simpler
and safer. |
| 02:12.21 |
starseeker |
And if tcl
8.5 isn't available, I want to use the internal version rather than
fail. That didn't seem to sit well either. |
| 02:12.23 |
louipc |
it thought
that gentoo used /opt for large packages like brlcad |
| 02:12.25 |
starseeker |
Sigh. |
| 02:12.32 |
louipc |
java... dunno
what else qt? |
| 02:12.36 |
starseeker |
The policy I
saw said binaries only |
| 02:12.41 |
louipc |
oh
heh |
| 02:12.49 |
starseeker |
We could have
an ebuild for the binary build of BRL-CAD I suppose... |
| 02:12.54 |
starseeker |
seems a shame
though |
| 02:13.02 |
louipc |
it's been a
year since i've used gentoo! haha |
| 02:13.07 |
louipc |
actually not
yet a year |
| 02:13.25 |
starseeker |
archlinux
work better? |
| 02:13.25 |
louipc |
have
both! |
| 02:13.33 |
louipc |
archlinux is
awesome |
| 02:13.43 |
starseeker |
I find gentoo
very clean and well integrated |
| 02:13.50 |
louipc |
I don't have
to waste my time compiling every single package |
| 02:13.54 |
starseeker |
just a bit
stubborn about package management ;-) |
| 02:14.13 |
louipc |
yikes I found
gentoo to be quite messy |
| 02:14.19 |
starseeker |
really? |
| 02:14.22 |
louipc |
but I hear
that they've improved |
| 02:14.28 |
starseeker |
I guess I'm
mental ;-) |
| 02:14.48 |
louipc |
yeah portage
would mess up my system every once in awhile if I tried to
--sync |
| 02:14.53 |
starseeker |
ah |
| 02:15.02 |
louipc |
need to
completely reinstall |
| 02:15.03 |
starseeker |
yeah, they
had a few bad moments a while back. |
| 02:15.21 |
starseeker |
I had to
completely reinstall after putting BRL-CAD in /usr ;-) |
| 02:15.38 |
louipc |
and I have a
PIII 866MHz so compiling every damned thing was a PAIN |
| 02:15.59 |
louipc |
starseeker:
ouch |
| 02:16.05 |
starseeker |
I'm hoping
the guy I was arguing with in #gentoo will hop onto the bug for the
ebuild and Sean can hang him out to dry ;-) |
| 02:16.07 |
Maloeran |
Gentoo is
like Linux from Scratch with package management, it's not bad for
developpers or people who know what they are doing |
| 02:16.18 |
louipc |
starseeker:
;) |
| 02:16.19 |
starseeker |
louipc:
ouch |
| 02:16.42 |
starseeker |
Heh - I've
got a nice fast P4 now (my old machine died, probably to excessive
code compiling) |
| 02:17.47 |
starseeker |
8 cores??
You young whippersnappers, in my day we lived with one core so
primitive it didn't even need it's own power feed, and we liked
it! |
| 02:17.48 |
louipc |
yeah I was
thinking Gentoo might be better viewed as an
automatic-distro-making tool |
| 02:18.14 |
starseeker |
I've got two
cores now, and I'm still getting used to how nice it
is. |
| 02:18.33 |
louipc |
I think I'm
getting a laptop next |
| 02:18.39 |
starseeker |
Thought I was
buying one core - heh, was rather surprised when gkrellm popped up
two displays ;-) |
| 02:18.44 |
louipc |
dual
core |
| 02:18.51 |
louipc |
sweet |
| 02:18.54 |
Maloeran |
I still had
Gentoo fall apart in horrible ways, more than once. The last time
was when I emerged a 32 bits X emulation library, and just that
killed PAM ( can no longuer log in ), deleted fsck, and plenty of
other "system" packages |
| 02:19.08 |
starseeker |
Owowowow |
| 02:19.20 |
Maloeran |
I never
understood how that happened, but it's kind of bothersome. For
anyone who doesn't know Linux in depth, that would be a pain to
fix |
| 02:19.28 |
starseeker |
No
kidding. |
| 02:20.01 |
starseeker |
Usually in
situations that extreme, I would get out the install CD, boot it,
mount the partitions without starting the install steps, and then
start debuggind using the CD environment |
| 02:20.08 |
louipc |
yeah it sucks
when you can't even find the problem and you have to reinstall.
it's like you've been defeated |
| 02:20.14 |
starseeker |
amazing
flexible and powerful - saved my tail a number of times |
| 02:20.31 |
Maloeran |
Yes... I just
plugged the hard drive in another box and fixed the mess
there |
| 02:20.40 |
starseeker |
BRL-CAD took
the cake though - even revdep-rebuild didn't fix it. |
| 02:21.31 |
louipc |
how many
gentoo devs are there? |
| 02:21.56 |
starseeker |
A fair
number, but probably less than are needed for the software they
have listed. Debian does better there. |
| 02:22.17 |
louipc |
debian hardly
releases though hah |
| 02:22.23 |
starseeker |
Heh -
true |
| 02:23.07 |
starseeker |
The distros
are too used to small packages that can easily follow their rules -
when it comes to things like Axiom, BRL-CAD, OpenDX, GRASS, etc. it
becomes much more difficult |
| 02:24.05 |
louipc |
haha yeah I
was telling an archlinux dev and he was saying 'oh no it's easy to
make packages' |
| 02:24.19 |
louipc |
and I said
'yeah usually, but not THIS one' |
| 02:24.34 |
louipc |
starseeker:
never! |
| 02:24.55 |
starseeker |
louipc: Of
course, what was I thinking - we wouldn't have a decent text
editor |
| 02:25.33 |
starseeker |
Just curious
- what do y'all think about literate programming? |
| 02:25.56 |
louipc |
what's
that? |
| 02:26.30 |
starseeker |
Donald Knuth
developed it - it's a programming philosophy where source code and
text are woven together in a single document, intended for human
readibility |
| 02:26.38 |
starseeker |
readability
sorry |
| 02:26.51 |
starseeker |
The TeX
typesetting system is created in that fashion |
| 02:27.01 |
starseeker |
you can buy
the TeX source code in book form |
| 02:27.36 |
Maloeran |
I find source
code perfectly readable by itself, as I think most good programmers
would |
| 02:28.03 |
louipc |
a philosophy
where you comment code nicely and use good variable and function
names? |
| 02:29.50 |
starseeker |
Well...
here's an example: |
| 02:30.00 |
starseeker |
hang on,
gotta find it... |
| 02:32.04 |
starseeker |
http://portal.axiom-developer.org/Members/starseeker/cl-web-v0.8.lisp.pdf/download |
| 02:33.44 |
starseeker |
I guess I
like the idea of having thinks like citations to mathematical
research for mathematical code, etc. |
| 02:34.26 |
louipc |
so it's a
class of computer language eh? |
| 02:35.18 |
louipc |
programming
language rather |
| 02:36.03 |
Maloeran |
Looks like a
lot to read to understand the concept... but I'm really skeptical
of the idea |
| 02:36.05 |
starseeker |
not really -
just a mark-up convention that allows source code
extraction |
| 02:36.25 |
starseeker |
Many people
don't care for it |
| 02:36.36 |
starseeker |
It might be
that it is only really appropriate for special
situations |
| 02:36.52 |
louipc |
well it makes
sense kind of |
| 02:37.16 |
louipc |
I might use
something like doxygen otherwise |
| 02:37.53 |
starseeker |
http://www.literateprogramming.com/
might be a good place as an intro |
| 02:38.47 |
starseeker |
Maloeran:
It's only really useful to those who don't intimately understand
the code, or perhaps the coding language |
| 02:39.32 |
Maloeran |
*nods*
Right |
| 02:39.49 |
starseeker |
it has a
certain appeal for open source (and particularly for Axiom, where a
lot of the code is complex mathematics) where you have many
developers who need to quickly understand both the code and the
reasons for writing the code the way it was written |
| 02:39.51 |
Maloeran |
I'm not
generally fond of documentation, it's good for high-level stuff,
but the low-level source code should speak by itself |
| 02:40.12 |
louipc |
well
documentation can save time rather than having to go over every
line of code to understand what it does |
| 02:40.20 |
Maloeran |
That's
high-level documentation, yes |
| 02:40.47 |
starseeker |
cl-web is a
parser for literate documents, itself written as a literate
document. |
| 02:41.18 |
starseeker |
the idea is
almost anyone with a basic Lisp knowledge could read it and know
how and why. |
| 02:41.52 |
starseeker |
In the end
Axiom will probably use a more flexible system, but it was a good
exercise ;-) |
| 02:42.00 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps it's
just me, but I find it faster and clearer to read the actual source
code than most typical low-level documentation found within the
source |
| 02:42.29 |
Maloeran |
It seems to
mostly get in the way, taking screen space... until you run a
script to strip all comments out |
| 02:43.32 |
starseeker |
Depending on
the goal and context this is true. One of the most able Axiom
developers (able to read straight code) ended up forking the code
base to avoid the drive towards literate programming |
| 02:43.38 |
louipc |
literal
programming probably does a better job there the way it
sounds |
| 02:43.40 |
starseeker |
(among other
reasons) |
| 02:44.09 |
starseeker |
Mathematics
has a way of creating maximally confusing code, I think
;-) |
| 02:45.39 |
louipc |
looks like
it's just a different way to write code actually might be less
verbose than the lower level stuff... |
| 02:45.43 |
starseeker |
more complex
literate tools that are tightly integrated with a compiler can do
tricks like reporting where in the document to find code that uses
any particular code - a densely hyperlinked document. |
| 02:46.20 |
starseeker |
I think
Knuth's tools were like that, but the problem with those tools is
they become specific to one language. |
| 02:46.22 |
louipc |
print Hello
there |
| 02:46.39 |
louipc |
rather than
printf("Hello there"); |
| 02:47.19 |
starseeker |
No, in that
case the grammar for your first part would end up being so long the
space saved wouldn't pay for itself ;-) |
| 02:47.31 |
Maloeran |
I still
prefer to see logic presented in code rather than in a maths form,
but... that's just a matter of experience with code algorithms
versus maths |
| 02:48.10 |
starseeker |
That's quite
true. Axiom is a special case, as it is a computer algebra system
- many of its primary contributors would (hopefully) be
mathematicians first and coders second |
| 02:48.23 |
starseeker |
in such a
case, making the code close to the mathematics is
logical |
| 02:48.42 |
Maloeran |
Right, makes
sense |
| 02:49.58 |
starseeker |
Also, if
Axiom manages to outlive all of its original developers, it may
someday be critical to survival for less skilled coders to be able
to understand it and work with it |
| 02:50.19 |
starseeker |
That's my
idealistic side showing ;-) |
| 02:50.47 |
louipc |
less skilled
will get more skilled if they're determined enough :D |
| 03:03.07 |
starseeker |
night all
;-) |
| 03:17.04 |
``Erik |
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1599962
that's walking distance from where I used to live in missouri
O.o |
| 06:05.28 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 07:30.38 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad
(n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:43.44 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 13:05.03 |
*** join/#brlcad Apathy
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| 13:59.03 |
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| 14:32.44 |
MinuteElectron |
Good
afternoon all. |
| 14:32.58 |
MinuteElectron |
It appears my
connection troubles have evaporated. :) |
| 14:35.01 |
brlcad |
sweet |
| 14:36.27 |
``Erik |
brlcad,
staying in for lunch? |
| 14:51.45 |
MinuteElectron |
``Erik: You
work in the same office as brlcad? |
| 14:52.56 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o MinuteElectron] by
ChanServ |
| 14:54.45 |
Maloeran |
They do,
yes |
| 14:55.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Ooh,
cool. |
| 14:55.37 |
``Erik |
same
building, same team... not the same physical office, though
:) |
| 14:56.58 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, I
see. |
| 14:57.25 |
MinuteElectron |
... |
| 15:20.43 |
``Erik |
we have 2-3
person offices, not a cube farm... :) |
| 15:21.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (364 files in 43 dirs): removed
trailing whitespace |
| 15:22.04 |
MinuteElectron |
``Erik: So
you get paid to do this? |
| 15:22.11 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (1102 files in 65 dirs):
removed trailing whitespace |
| 15:22.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (538 files in 44 dirs): removed
trailing whitespace |
| 15:22.50 |
``Erik |
yup |
| 15:23.07 |
MinuteElectron |
nice |
| 15:23.15 |
``Erik |
*shrug* it's
a yob |
| 15:23.27 |
MinuteElectron |
yob? |
| 15:23.30 |
``Erik |
job |
| 15:23.30 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:23.35 |
MinuteElectron |
oh,
right. |
| 15:23.36 |
``Erik |
mehican style
O.o |
| 15:42.47 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: use AM_LDFLAGS
instead of user-settable LDFLAGS |
| 17:16.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 17:32.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: eliminate trailing
whitespace in g2asc output |
| 17:37.02 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 17:44.52 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): change c++/c99
"//" comments to more portable c89 /* */ comments |
| 17:47.03 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h: change c++/c99 "//"
comments to more portable c89 /* */ comments |
| 17:51.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson *
10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: |
| 17:51.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Greenwald identified a bug in tab expansion. I could not reproduce
the segfault |
| 17:51.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: that
he saw, but did add a check for an open database before
attempting |
| 17:51.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
object expansion, and a check for a valid path prior to
expansion. |
| 17:52.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: pad out multi-line and
doxygen comments |
| 18:09.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/htester.c: cast to fix
incompatible pointer warning |
| 18:11.58 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change various ints and
longs to size_t for pointer/offset stuff |
| 18:16.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: need common.h for
config.h defines |
| 18:16.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/coswin.c: include stdlib.h for
malloc() |
| 18:24.26 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.42 |
``Erik |
minute...
about? |
| 18:25.24 |
MinuteElectron |
Who you work
for :D |
| 18:25.39 |
*** join/#brlcad JJZ
(n=kvirc@81.90.250.169) |
| 18:25.54 |
``Erik |
army research
lab |
| 18:26.23 |
MinuteElectron |
And does john
work at the same place as erik. And if so is erik a lower ranking
officer than erik (you get refered to as 'Greenwald'
XD) |
| 18:26.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:26.34 |
MinuteElectron |
I ask too
many qquestions. |
| 18:26.53 |
MinuteElectron |
And does brlc
ad work at the same place as erik and john. |
| 18:27.17 |
``Erik |
kinda |
| 18:27.24 |
MinuteElectron |
heh |
| 18:27.46 |
``Erik |
john is
technically on a different team... one I used to be on... there was
a split, I went on the sucky side of it, but I moved back to the
side that does cad |
| 18:28.26 |
``Erik |
but all of
johns BRL-CAD contributions these days are donated work in his
spare time, he's not getting paid for it and the pointy hairs can
go fuck themselves if they dont' like what he's doing
:D |
| 18:28.37 |
MinuteElectron |
heh |
| 18:57.04 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor
cleanup |
| 19:22.09 |
brlcad |
several of
the files also necessarily had dos line endings, did you check that
they weren't "fixed"? |
| 19:29.06 |
brlcad |
gah, and your
tclIndex files are wrong |
| 19:31.36 |
``Erik |
eh? |
| 19:31.45 |
brlcad |
``Erik: you
need to fix/revert the tclIndex file changes .. for whatever
reason, the system you committed from is blowing most of the
indices away |
| 19:32.21 |
``Erik |
hrmmm |
| 19:33.00 |
brlcad |
looks like
all of the incr tcl indices are gone |
| 19:33.05 |
``Erik |
hrmmm, musta
missed those when skimming the diff |
| 19:34.41 |
brlcad |
there's not
really any point to "cleaning up" the src/other files.. just makes
merging an incremental update harder, their code their
mess |
| 19:35.26 |
``Erik |
yeah *shrug*
it was a one-liner, it walked into other, updating in other just
blows away what is there, so'z I didn't worry about it
:/ |
| 19:35.27 |
brlcad |
that's why
there was a ton in src/other, but not much in the rest of the
package .. there's a ws script that does the cleanup/exclusions
automatically |
| 19:36.15 |
brlcad |
that's my
point, it's not always a blow-away update .. sometimes it's a patch
applied |
| 19:36.19 |
brlcad |
that just
causes conflicts |
| 19:36.58 |
``Erik |
heh, and
admin -o will probably mess up the cvs2svn script? |
| 19:37.15 |
brlcad |
nah, don't
admin it |
| 19:37.21 |
brlcad |
it's fine ..
just for "next time" |
| 19:37.50 |
``Erik |
I mean the
tclIndex stuff atm |
| 19:42.25 |
brlcad |
hm, i'd just
revert cleanly |
| 19:42.47 |
brlcad |
ala cvs
revert -j 1.3 -j 1.2 tclIndex.tcl, etc.. |
| 19:43.07 |
brlcad |
used to have
a script that got the last revision, and reverted to the previous
.. but pretty quick to do by hand too |
| 19:43.26 |
``Erik |
'revert'?
O.o |
| 19:43.51 |
``Erik |
merge? |
| 19:43.54 |
brlcad |
hm? |
| 19:44.05 |
``Erik |
revert isn't
a cvs command... are ya thinkin' svn? |
| 19:44.16 |
brlcad |
oh,
typo |
| 19:44.18 |
brlcad |
update |
| 19:44.28 |
brlcad |
svn has
revert |
| 19:44.50 |
brlcad |
cvs update,
join from 1.3 to 1.2 |
| 19:45.10 |
brlcad |
i.e., revert
back one (presuming 1.3 was head rev) |
| 19:45.12 |
``Erik |
<-- was
doing 'cvs -z3 update -pr 1.2 tclIndex > tclIndex', the merge
update seems to do the samet hing |
| 19:46.49 |
brlcad |
ah, hm .. I'd
be afraid of cvs dying on the pipe wiping out the file it was
reading from |
| 19:46.58 |
brlcad |
at least for
some older versions |
| 19:47.23 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (7 files in 7 dirs):
re-add indices accidently clobbered when removing trailing
whitespace. My bad. |
| 19:47.35 |
brlcad |
s/pipe/output
redir/ |
| 19:47.37 |
``Erik |
heh, since
it's a reversion, it doesn't matter... if the pipe craps itself,
run it again, it's still in the repo |
| 19:47.49 |
``Erik |
stream,
whatever |
| 19:56.11 |
``Erik |
probably just
drift from printing floating point numbers |
| 20:05.17 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
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| 20:07.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (17 files in 11 dirs): |
| 20:07.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: The
c89 headers are all fair game since it's been a requirement since
the move |
| 20:07.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: to
ANSI c89 compliance. So.. remove the HAVE_STDLIB_H checks and just
use the |
| 20:07.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
header. The headers <complex.h>, <fenv.h>,
<inttypes.h>, <stdbool.h>, |
| 20:07.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
<stdint.h>, and <tgmath.h> were added with C99 and
still need to be checked. |
| 20:07.33 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
There are several other c89 headers that we could just use, though,
that are |
| 20:07.35 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
still being checked. |
| 20:08.48 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
that's a nasty tolerance bug .. kudos if you figure out why
:) |
| 20:09.48 |
brlcad |
it probably
is just drift, but when you push it through again, you're pushing
through a v5 asc which has more digits than the v4 it started from
so it shouldn't be different |
| 20:13.23 |
iraytrace |
Looks like a
commit storm in the logs today ;0) |
| 20:17.55 |
brlcad |
all hail the
'ws' commits |
| 20:20.47 |
``Erik |
but I got a
bunch of non-ws commits in, too |
| 21:44.28 |
poolio_ |
hmm, quite
off topic but I was wondering if any of you guys knew of some sort
of dynamics simulator...like an aerodynamics simulator where i
could throw in an object and get something like a drag coefficient
back |
| 21:44.51 |
brlcad |
er, the
flight simulator has things for that |
| 21:44.56 |
brlcad |
s/er/hmm/ |
| 21:45.28 |
brlcad |
http://www.flightgear.org/ |
| 21:45.56 |
brlcad |
not sure if
you could do a single wing, but it does the computations and you
can feed custom geometry |
| 21:57.03 |
poolio_ |
hmm,
thanks |
| 22:55.27 |
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| 23:05.38 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:05.48 |
``Erik |
flightgear
has a couple coarse emulation models |
| 23:05.57 |
``Erik |
that require
experiemental details entered |
| 23:06.03 |
``Erik |
jsim and uhhh
something else |
| 23:06.20 |
``Erik |
xplane uses
'blade theory' to generate force sums, there're plenty of papers on
the idea |
| 23:09.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: might as well also list the c89
and c95 headers |
| 23:10.29 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 23:18.00 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/wdb_obj.c mged/ged.c): don't bother
checking for errno.h, it's c89 |
| 23:31.24 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/ged.c): don't check for
errno.h, we can assume at least c89 compliance |
| 23:41.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 5 dirs): math.h and float.h are
also fair game, c89 baby |
| 01:18.40 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
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| 01:59.22 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 02:03.50 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 02:04.02 |
starseeker |
brlcad, you
on? |
| 02:04.40 |
louipc |
what's
up |
| 02:05.13 |
starseeker |
Question on
"pic" |
| 02:05.20 |
starseeker |
what is
it? |
| 02:05.32 |
starseeker |
I'm not sure
whether to add it to the USE flags or just turn it on |
| 02:05.52 |
starseeker |
I could dig,
but it's quicker to ask here as it's getting late and I want to try
a build ;-) |
| 02:06.55 |
starseeker |
The gentoo
ebuild policy has something about always using "pic" but I'm not
sure if that's the same thing or not. |
| 02:07.38 |
louipc |
pic? I'm not
sure |
| 02:10.53 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
it's not a big deal -- it's fine on or off |
| 02:11.09 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Cool
- thanks :-) |
| 02:11.10 |
brlcad |
you can get
away with it on linux |
| 02:11.57 |
brlcad |
using
--with-pic should potentially cut about 40% off the
compile-time |
| 02:11.58 |
starseeker |
We might have
a time if it with the ebuild - it sounds like the gentoo devs (some
of them anyway) may not like the idea of internal versions of
tcl/tk/etc |
| 02:12.07 |
starseeker |
works for me!
:-) :-) |
| 02:13.02 |
brlcad |
using either
--with or --without will cut the time -- the default is to compile
both with and without PIC |
| 02:13.23 |
brlcad |
that's a
libtool behavior, to guarantee portable libraries |
| 02:13.49 |
louipc |
oh wow I
should use that then... it takes forever for me to
compile |
| 02:15.47 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Looking at other ebuilds, I am seeing behavior where the prefix is
being set as --prefix=${D}/usr/program in order to let portage do
its thing of building in a temp directory and then do a final copy
the install dir. Will this be a problem for any of the
binaries? |
| 02:16.27 |
brlcad |
potentially,
not clear |
| 02:16.49 |
starseeker |
OK. Nothing
like trying :-) |
| 02:16.52 |
brlcad |
tools that
have to find resources rely on the prefix-path as a search-path
base for finding data resources |
| 02:17.10 |
brlcad |
they'll also
search based on where the binary is, so it "should" still find what
it needs |
| 02:17.15 |
brlcad |
if mged
works, then it's fine |
| 02:17.16 |
louipc |
I used
DESTDIR to install to a directory that I can then use to tar up the
pkg |
| 02:17.48 |
brlcad |
DESTDIR is
fine, because that's during make .. the path is already fixed
during configure |
| 02:17.52 |
louipc |
yep |
| 02:18.45 |
starseeker |
hang on,
phone... |
| 02:46.50 |
louipc |
dang cvs
update doesn't pull in new directories! |
| 02:46.59 |
starseeker |
isn't that
fun? |
| 02:49.04 |
louipc |
I wouldn't
care about switching the world, only the projects I'd develop in.
That's possible |
| 02:52.29 |
louipc |
haha cvs
can't delete directories either |
| 03:28.00 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 03:30.42 |
starseeker |
Me mutters
under his breath and tries again to create a patch that patch will
accept... |
| 03:53.38 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace_
(n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:53.43 |
louipc |
uh! |
| 03:55.57 |
starseeker |
OK, after
some arm twisting one of the guys on gentoo-dev-help conceded that
a non-binary in /opt seemed a bit dubious but to try it if it was
the simplest thing. |
| 03:59.05 |
louipc |
gentoo has no
provisions for mondo packages that have their own libs? |
| 03:59.19 |
louipc |
I know tons
of java pkgs re package java libs |
| 03:59.49 |
starseeker |
The gentoo
philosophy is usually to "fix" the package so it can use system
libs. |
| 04:01.22 |
louipc |
yeah that's
ideal but is not always that possible. |
| 04:02.00 |
starseeker |
Yes.
Unfortunately convincing folks that BRL-CAD is worth the exception
may take a little arm twisting. |
| 04:02.42 |
louipc |
well BRL-CAD
could always host the ebuild :D |
| 04:02.53 |
starseeker |
I guess if we
have to ;-) |
| 04:03.05 |
louipc |
aren't there
any rogue gentoo repos out there? |
| 04:03.16 |
starseeker |
Oh sure,
there's even one specific to science packages |
| 04:03.24 |
starseeker |
but that
wouldn't be in the "official" gentoo |
| 04:03.28 |
brlcad |
there's only
a few options -- you either backport to 8.4 with a patchset, use
8.5*whatever* that we provide, use an 8.5* already in gentoo, or
wait for 8.5 final |
| 04:03.31 |
louipc |
I know there
are some portage tools other than 'emerge' for
building/installing |
| 04:03.53 |
starseeker |
Usually the
thing to do is use overlays |
| 04:04.06 |
louipc |
oh yeah I
heard about that too |
| 04:04.17 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
think we should be OK in opt - we'll just pretend we're a really
hard to install binary ;-) |
| 04:04.36 |
brlcad |
we can't
install into /usr regardless |
| 04:04.47 |
brlcad |
there are
conflicts that cannot be changed |
| 04:05.02 |
starseeker |
Right. IIRC,
there are at least one or two cases where there are name conflicts
with libraries having different purposes? |
| 04:05.25 |
brlcad |
there's more
than two, although some are more obscure than others |
| 04:05.48 |
starseeker |
I'm going to
attempt a "proper" /opt ebuild with the /etc settings and
everything. Will /opt be OK for the Army's modules? |
| 04:05.55 |
brlcad |
all of our
libs predate the ones we conflict with but that doesn't make the
conflict any less problematic |
| 04:06.06 |
starseeker |
Right
:-) |
| 04:07.03 |
starseeker |
Still
building, no failures yet... it's like waiting for the other shoe
to drop ;-) |
| 04:07.08 |
brlcad |
libbu, libbn,
librt are the core conflicting ones that come to mind, they're part
of brl-cad's geometric core and for various integration reasons are
not likely to ever change, not that we'd want to change
them |
| 04:08.16 |
starseeker |
Right. |
| 04:09.06 |
brlcad |
libbn
conflicts with an internal library in OpenSSL iirc; librt conflicts
with a deprecated real-time linux kernel library |
| 04:09.22 |
brlcad |
forget what
libbu conflicts with, and google isn't helping -- that one was
probably minor |
| 04:09.31 |
brlcad |
librt is the
biggie, though |
| 04:09.52 |
brlcad |
that's are
most important library and it conflicts with a kernel
library |
| 04:09.54 |
starseeker |
I can
probably check my revdep-rebuild report - that was pretty
comprehensive, if at bit redundant... |
| 04:10.27 |
brlcad |
the library
is fortunately "dead" and slowly being removed, so in 5-10 years it
won't be a problem, but in the meantime it is |
| 04:11.23 |
brlcad |
libbn's
probably something we possibly could sort out with the openssh
folks, but it's still daunting when there are user-space binaries
to sort out too |
| 04:11.38 |
brlcad |
since
after-all, we could always just install libs into
/usr/lib/brlcad/. |
| 04:11.44 |
starseeker |
Right. |
| 04:12.23 |
starseeker |
That may be a
trick even in /opt - we can append /opt/brlcad/bin to the path but
the other binaries will take precedence |
| 04:12.49 |
brlcad |
there are
several user binaries that conflict, but most of those can be
readily changed/renamed on our part (e.g. the 'wall' command that
generates a geometric wall conflicts with the old "write a message
to all users" command") |
| 04:13.18 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
care if the other binaries took precendence |
| 04:13.34 |
brlcad |
users that
really care will find out pretty quickly if they really need that
tool (unlikely) |
| 04:13.47 |
starseeker |
OK - I think
that has to do with the ordering of the directories in the $PATH
variable. |
| 04:13.51 |
brlcad |
there's only
a handful, and last I checked they were pretty minor |
| 04:13.55 |
starseeker |
Gentoo will
probably do the right thing by default |
| 04:14.02 |
louipc |
enigma
hehe |
| 04:14.25 |
starseeker |
Well the
build completed successfully, but the install command didn't like
something. |
| 04:14.36 |
starseeker |
trying again
without the $D prefix... |
| 04:15.20 |
brlcad |
if we really
wanted to get fancy, brl-cad is really a suite of tools and would
be broken up into somewhere between a dozen to a couple hundred
different ebuilds |
| 04:16.04 |
starseeker |
Hehe. I
doubt that would be worth it for quite a while - if people start
using regularly a subset of BRL-CAD that might make
sense. |
| 04:16.16 |
brlcad |
e.g.
brl-cad's rt ray-tracer, mged modeler, image manipulators, ttcp,
framebuffer tools, benchmark suite, archer modeler, etc
etc |
| 04:16.18 |
louipc |
I know some
people who've done that with other packages |
| 04:16.28 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
yep, I quite agree |
| 04:16.29 |
louipc |
like perl
CPAN |
| 04:16.39 |
starseeker |
CPAN is a
headache |
| 04:16.58 |
louipc |
a dozen would
be OK though |
| 04:17.05 |
starseeker |
Lisp has
those problems too - I maintain my own asdf archive of lisp
libraries |
| 04:17.37 |
brlcad |
ttcp is a
good example, though -- it's a tool that's pretty brief, probably
already in ebuild, yet technically we have the sources to
it |
| 04:17.53 |
brlcad |
it's just one
of the 405 or so |
| 04:18.55 |
starseeker |
That might be
worth doing at some point. Just curious - was the main purpose of
including these libraries to insulate BRL-CAD from changes which
might impact the correctness of the program, or to make sure it
built successfully on a variety of targets? |
| 04:19.07 |
brlcad |
yep, http://gentoo-portage.com/net-analyzer/ttcp/ |
| 04:20.18 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
primarily because not every platform we support and build on has a
convenient package management system, it's for
user-convenience |
| 04:20.47 |
starseeker |
Ah. |
| 04:20.57 |
brlcad |
reduces
support headaches substantially, and really just makes compilation
go a whole lot smoother when you don't have to worry about getting
X, Y, Z, etc before being able to build |
| 04:21.04 |
starseeker |
Very
true. |
| 04:21.20 |
brlcad |
we merely
just do the download for you, whether it uses it or not is entirely
up to build settings and configuration |
| 04:21.56 |
starseeker |
One
possibility I've seen before - if you have two tarballs - one with
BRL-CAD, and one with supporting libraries, you can opt either to
expand just brlcad or brlcad and brlcad-support to cover the two
cases. |
| 04:22.34 |
brlcad |
i mean if you
know it's required, and you're giving someone your code .. it seems
utterly absurd to me that they have to go hunting all over the net
for those required dependencies, have to deal with the various
headaches of getting that dependency to build and do so
*recursively* |
| 04:23.02 |
brlcad |
it puts some
burden on our devs to make sure we bundle it cleanly and have the
proper configure tests, but we generally do that once |
| 04:23.31 |
brlcad |
and for the
folks that *do* have a package management system, it still "just
works" and can be all disabled |
| 04:23.41 |
louipc |
well it's not
so bad with smaller pkgs with only 1 or 2 deps :D |
| 04:24.30 |
brlcad |
even bigger
packages have the problem too though, like building gnome by hand,
for example .. that's just utter hell |
| 04:25.06 |
louipc |
ooh gnucash!
hahah |
| 04:25.23 |
starseeker |
Or best of
all, mplayer |
| 04:25.24 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
i've seen that with the two-packages.. but what's the point? it's
just a few megs of disk space and would require additional "are the
files there" checks |
| 04:26.01 |
starseeker |
brlcad: My
take on it is the same - stick 'em in and use 'em if needed. It
seems to bug some people, but I don't really think it's a big deal
in this day and age. |
| 04:26.28 |
brlcad |
i'm
continually amazed by how many people are bothered just that the
files are 'there' .. |
| 04:26.48 |
starseeker |
maybe someone
is trying to get BRL-CAD onto an embedded system ;-) |
| 04:26.49 |
louipc |
yeah people
have more disk space and bandwidth these days |
| 04:27.17 |
brlcad |
the package
requires over a GB to compile under most configurations, if you're
worried about the 20MB or so that the unused dependencies take up,
you've got way bigger problems |
| 04:28.36 |
starseeker |
Heh - an
embedded CAD system. Finally, something worse than Emacs to
embed |
| 04:28.57 |
brlcad |
most of our
tools would work with exceptionally limited resources, I think even
classic mged only requires a couple MB at most then it just limits
the size of the model you can load |
| 04:29.38 |
starseeker |
That would be
great, but what would we do for a text editor? :-P |
| 04:30.08 |
starseeker |
Actually, I
think Emacs is long overdue for a cleanup and
re-factoring. |
| 04:30.37 |
brlcad |
you could
have an mged major mode for geometry editing, a g-file major mode
for traversing geometry files, hook into all the various
ray-tracers just the same, maybe even overlay a framebuffer if
emacs is running under X |
| 04:31.00 |
starseeker |
Hmm. |
| 04:31.08 |
louipc |
starseeker:
haha that would be a job wouldn't it? |
| 04:31.27 |
louipc |
well you
could get a team of 3 people to live to 100 |
| 04:31.28 |
starseeker |
Wait, are we
talking about an Emacs mode or porting BRL-CAD to
emacs? |
| 04:31.45 |
louipc |
emacs
re-factoring? |
| 04:31.51 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 04:31.55 |
brlcad |
what's the
difference, everything is a mode under the hood to
emacs |
| 04:32.39 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
True |
| 04:32.56 |
starseeker |
er s/has
has/has had |
| 04:33.03 |
starseeker |
quick, to the
caffeine! |
| 04:33.16 |
brlcad |
i mean
there's a ton of wrapper/glue code you'd have, but it would all
boil down to a handful of major and minor modes to the
user |
| 04:33.39 |
brlcad |
not even that
complicated really, mged is pretty well suited |
| 04:34.14 |
brlcad |
would sort of
be like having dired-mode and gdb-mode |
| 04:34.25 |
brlcad |
just instead
g-mode and mged-mode |
| 04:35.12 |
starseeker |
Boy would
that ever be wild. |
| 04:35.47 |
brlcad |
would be a
great little project for some student |
| 04:35.56 |
starseeker |
Indeed. |
| 04:36.07 |
brlcad |
i'd pay for
that myself if someone was motivated :) |
| 04:36.17 |
starseeker |
Hehe.
|
| 04:36.53 |
brlcad |
heh
no |
| 04:37.06 |
starseeker |
At least it's
using GTK now. |
| 04:37.07 |
brlcad |
i meant
personally pay :) |
| 04:37.11 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 04:37.45 |
starseeker |
Maybe it was
just me but between open-motif, lesstif, and Emacs there always
seemed to be a little bit of an argument going on... |
| 04:37.51 |
brlcad |
there are
'other priorities' at yonder funding agency that are often not the
same as those of the project at large or the open source or solid
modeling communities |
| 04:38.00 |
brlcad |
everyone has
their own needs that they want fulfilled |
| 04:38.02 |
starseeker |
Makes sense
:-) |
| 04:40.13 |
brlcad |
the gui is
our biggest problem |
| 04:40.38 |
starseeker |
Hehe - gentoo
spit out a "QA" notice... |
| 04:40.39 |
brlcad |
i'm trying to
make a change there, but there are several pieces of the puzzle
that are involved |
| 04:40.47 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 |
starseeker |
showshot.c:122: warning: incompatible
implicit declaration of built-in function ?strlen? |
| 04:40.54 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
can imagine. |
| 04:41.01 |
starseeker |
Axiom has
similar problems. |
| 04:41.49 |
brlcad |
hm, that's
odd -- it's not implicit -- it includes string.h |
| 04:42.55 |
brlcad |
strcpy is
c89, it better |
| 04:43.13 |
starseeker |
cyapp@localhost ~ $ grep strcpy
/usr/include/string.h |
| 04:43.14 |
starseeker |
extern char
*strcpy (char *__restrict __dest, __const char *__restrict
__src) |
| 04:43.29 |
starseeker |
Huh.
Weird. |
| 04:43.45 |
brlcad |
what's your
#include section at the top look like? |
| 04:44.07 |
starseeker |
you mean on
showshot.c? |
| 04:44.09 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 04:44.42 |
starseeker |
which
directory is it in? |
| 04:44.52 |
brlcad |
src/nirt/shotshot.c |
| 04:44.56 |
brlcad |
er,
showshot |
| 04:45.23 |
starseeker |
#ifndef
lint |
| 04:45.23 |
starseeker |
static const
char RCSid[] = "$Header:
/cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c,v 14.13 2007/05/12
22:26:57 brlcad Exp $"; |
| 04:45.23 |
starseeker |
#endif |
| 04:45.24 |
starseeker |
#include
<stdio.h> |
| 04:45.24 |
starseeker |
#include
<stdlib.h> |
| 04:45.26 |
starseeker |
#include
<ctype.h> |
| 04:45.28 |
starseeker |
#ifdef
HAVE_STRING_H |
| 04:45.30 |
starseeker |
# include
<string.h> |
| 04:45.32 |
starseeker |
#else |
| 04:45.34 |
starseeker |
# include
<strings.h> |
| 04:45.36 |
starseeker |
#endif |
| 04:45.38 |
starseeker |
#ifdef
HAVE_UNISTD_H |
| 04:45.40 |
starseeker |
# include
<unistd.h> |
| 04:45.42 |
starseeker |
#endif |
| 04:45.43 |
brlcad |
grep
HAVE_STRING_H include/brlcad_config.h |
| 04:45.44 |
starseeker |
#include
"machine.h" |
| 04:45.46 |
starseeker |
#include
"vmath.h" |
| 04:45.48 |
starseeker |
#include
"db.h" |
| 04:45.50 |
starseeker |
#include
"bu.h" |
| 04:46.17 |
starseeker |
#define
HAVE_STRING_H 1 |
| 04:47.00 |
brlcad |
well, that's
right |
| 04:47.16 |
starseeker |
Let me do
another build, and I'll script the whole thing |
| 04:47.20 |
brlcad |
so the file
is included, but not getting the decl's for some reason |
| 04:47.53 |
starseeker |
Is there a
way to pass tcl and tk flags not to include the info/man files?
They're showing up as collisions |
| 04:47.58 |
brlcad |
pastebin your
string.h |
| 04:48.22 |
brlcad |
hm |
| 04:49.12 |
starseeker |
http://pastebin.com/dd3f7686 |
| 04:49.15 |
brlcad |
we actually
just call the tcl/tk build system directly, and I don't see
info/man options to actually not install them |
| 04:49.35 |
starseeker |
mrf.
|
| 04:50.20 |
starseeker |
Oh, wait - it
might be itk and itcl |
| 04:50.50 |
louipc |
I think
iwidgets has a manpage that conflicts with a tcl
manpage |
| 04:51.09 |
brlcad |
oh? |
| 04:51.23 |
starseeker |
There are a
few complaints about dereferencing type-punned pointers - are they
of any interest? |
| 04:52.01 |
brlcad |
feel free to
post up the entire build log |
| 04:52.24 |
brlcad |
really
depends what they're warnings about |
| 04:52.27 |
starseeker |
unless
brl-cad saved it I'm afraid I didn't - I can re-do it, hang
on.. |
| 04:52.36 |
starseeker |
http://pastebin.com/m3677e600 |
| 04:52.42 |
brlcad |
curious that
you're getting additional warnings, though -- are there flags being
added? |
| 04:52.52 |
brlcad |
is gcc being
used and, if not, what is? |
| 04:52.57 |
starseeker |
Yes,
gcc. |
| 04:53.05 |
starseeker |
let's see -
my default flags are... |
| 04:53.24 |
starseeker |
CFLAGS="-O2
-march=i686 -pipe" |
| 04:53.24 |
starseeker |
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" |
| 04:53.38 |
brlcad |
ah, those are
warnings in tcl/tk code |
| 04:53.46 |
starseeker |
Oh
:-) |
| 04:53.53 |
starseeker |
sorry, should
have looked closer |
| 04:54.08 |
brlcad |
i'm not
really concerned about anything in src/other unless it's halting
the build or conflicting something |
| 04:54.17 |
starseeker |
makes
sense |
| 04:54.31 |
brlcad |
we don't
fix/edit their code anymore than we have to |
| 04:54.54 |
starseeker |
OK
:-) |
| 04:57.06 |
brlcad |
in the past I
actually tried, mostly out of a particular need and in-part just a
desire to help clean up some of their issues |
| 04:58.27 |
brlcad |
but found
that it just wasn't worth it; you'd make a slew of build system
fixes and it was nearly impossible to get them integrated (only a
couple core folk generally understand a build system for things
like tcl), or they were already fixed in their head, or they just
didn't care, or some other update came that required clobbering
everything |
| 04:59.33 |
brlcad |
didn't take
long to learn that we just need to leave the deps alone --
integrate them as needed so that they "just work" when compiling as
a dep but if they fail, they fail -- the user can always try to
compile them directly themselves like they'd have to do
otherwise |
| 05:00.02 |
starseeker |
Yep |
| 05:00.59 |
brlcad |
ahh, my cvs
problems seem to have just solved itself |
| 05:02.40 |
starseeker |
I love it
when problems do that |
| 05:05.57 |
brlcad |
i can only
imagine that sf.net has a cron job that walks all of the projects
looking for common cleanup-issues like stale locks, bad
permissions, and other support-inducing issues that would be a
burden |
| 05:09.30 |
starseeker |
I would think
that keeps someone on their support staff sane ;-) |
| 05:15.52 |
starseeker |
OK, I need to
re-do the build and provide a patch to disable the man files in the
Makefile, but first sleep :-) |
| 06:51.09 |
yukonbob |
...and hits
hay |
| 08:43.49 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-001-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:51.00 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
shit. |
| 09:51.11 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: Did
you have an ldap server running? |
| 09:57.34 |
MinuteElectron |
I am such an
imbasele. |
| 10:00.44 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah, I
mucked up bad this time. |
| 11:00.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875790.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:19.05 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 12:19.08 |
``Erik |
ho
hum |
| 12:19.16 |
``Erik |
hum, ho,
hum! |
| 13:39.37 |
starseeker |
YES |
| 13:39.40 |
starseeker |
it
worked |
| 13:39.49 |
starseeker |
mged
starts |
| 13:59.39 |
``Erik |
using
gentoo's port ripoff build system? |
| 14:45.47 |
*** join/#brlcad cad49
(n=d53c6d36@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:48.39 |
starseeker |
``Erik: You
mean the FreeBSD rippoff? yep :-) |
| 14:50.26 |
starseeker |
I think it
worked... |
| 14:50.58 |
starseeker |
Yep. Just
need to do source /etc/profile to update the shell |
| 14:51.27 |
starseeker |
OK. Next and
maybe last step is to go over the build log for any problems, but
first laundry... |
| 15:10.39 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Are
the files in src/tclscripts part of BRL-CAD or are they
external? |
| 15:16.31 |
louipc |
so what BSD
is a Unix rip off and so on and so on |
| 15:18.23 |
louipc |
starseeker:
archer is part of BRL-CAD |
| 15:18.53 |
starseeker |
louipc: Ah.
I'm seeing a few compiler warnings, but I don't guess they are
serious enough to bother about now. |
| 15:19.05 |
starseeker |
most are tcl
and friends, a few might be in BRL-CAD |
| 15:19.36 |
starseeker |
WOOOOO-HOOOOOO :-). It looks like the
ebuild is functioning :) |
| 15:19.44 |
louipc |
hurrah |
| 15:19.45 |
``Erik |
anything in
src/other we tend to ignore |
| 15:20.06 |
starseeker |
Yes, I was
looking for warnings not in src/other. Saw a few, but no big
deal |
| 15:20.14 |
``Erik |
and a lot of
the other stuff has been fixed in cvs... sometimes I get a hair up
my butt about those :) |
| 15:20.19 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 15:20.48 |
louipc |
hair up your
butt?? how queer |
| 15:20.52 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, tcl precludes the use of
CFLAGS="-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic" :( |
| 15:59.22 |
starseeker |
humph - it
only works if the tcl and tk patches are in different files. I
wonder why that is |
| 16:09.35 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
they are part of brl-cad, the tclscripts are required by mged and
loaded on start-up (mged finds them via a search path
ordering) |
| 16:10.09 |
brlcad |
archer also
uses the tclscripts as well (in part because it effectively has an
embedded mged in it) |
| 16:13.13 |
brlcad |
minute: no
big deal -- killing the process fortunately didn't do any harm
:) |
| 16:13.45 |
``Erik |
I need to buy
a new fan, heh |
| 16:14.13 |
brlcad |
minute: also
think you have/had something wrong in the config file: daemon:
listen URL "/var/db/openldap-slurp/slapd.conf" parse
error=3 |
| 16:16.58 |
brlcad |
minute: also,
you did/do have sudo to run the slapd/slurpd startup scripts in
/usr/local/etc/rc.d -- that would have been how to restart
it |
| 16:27.26 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-001-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:54.27 |
minute |
brlcad: Thank
you, sorry again. |
| 20:02.46 |
minute |
brlcad: I
hope you don't mind me installing phpldapadmin to my personal
webspace. I am a total n00b at this and it would help a
lot. |
| 20:08.37 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Where do I find a copy of the BSD Documentation License (BDL?)
|
| 20:21.57 |
brlcad |
doc/legal |
| 20:25.49 |
starseeker |
Thanks
:-) |
| 20:28.05 |
starseeker |
One think I
don't have yet is the installation of all the doc files (pdf, txt,
etc) into the /opt tree. Hmm... |
| 20:29.39 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Is
there a list of "files that should go into /opt/brlcad/doc" (or I
guess /usr/share/doc/brlcad would do in this case...) |
| 20:36.19 |
starseeker |
Oh,
nevermind, I see it in /usr/share. |
| 20:41.02 |
minute |
Oh, this is
crazy. |
| 20:41.55 |
minute |
brlcad: Is
there any reason a site at ~MinuteElectron/ldap/htdocs/cmd.php
would give me a 403 forbidden error? |
| 20:48.19 |
minute |
Ok, I need a
break. |
| 21:10.46 |
starseeker |
brlcad: When
I open the cups.g example in mged, nothing shows in the window - is
this expected? |
| 21:15.41 |
louipc |
if you start
mged then open it yeah |
| 21:16.17 |
louipc |
you can try
`mged cups.g` that should display and open |
| 21:17.01 |
louipc |
otherwise you
issue a command to draw the geometry (which I forgot) |
| 21:17.18 |
louipc |
use ls to
list different components of the model |
| 21:23.52 |
louipc |
starseeker:
aha usually `draw all` |
| 21:24.30 |
starseeker |
hmm - all not
found |
| 21:24.56 |
louipc |
where's
cups.g from? |
| 21:25.08 |
starseeker |
it's in the
manual |
| 21:25.13 |
starseeker |
is there
something better to test with? |
| 21:25.34 |
louipc |
oh it's a
model you created? |
| 21:25.39 |
starseeker |
no |
| 21:25.43 |
starseeker |
hang
on... |
| 21:25.46 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:25.52 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.02 |
``Erik |
'tops' is a
good command, then when you see what you want, you can do an
'e' |
| 21:26.17 |
``Erik |
like, if tops
tells you that "all.g" exists, do "e all.g" |
| 21:26.40 |
starseeker |
mged>
tops |
| 21:26.41 |
starseeker |
cup.r/R
cup_out.r/R eto_sub.r/R mug.r/R |
| 21:26.41 |
starseeker |
cup_in.r/R
eto.r/R handle.r/R |
| 21:26.57 |
louipc |
probably
cup.r/R |
| 21:27.27 |
starseeker |
draw
cup.r/R |
| 21:27.27 |
starseeker |
db_lookup(R)
failed: R does not exist |
| 21:27.27 |
starseeker |
db_string_to_path() of 'cup.r/R' failed on
'R' |
| 21:27.27 |
starseeker |
db_walk_tree:
warning - cup.r/R not found. |
| 21:27.27 |
starseeker |
mged>
|
| 21:27.39 |
louipc |
share/brlcad/7.10.2/db maybe |
| 21:29.00 |
louipc |
actually you
should be able to just do `draw cup` |
| 21:29.38 |
starseeker |
mged> draw
cup |
| 21:29.38 |
starseeker |
bn_mat_ck(cyl): bad matrix, does not
preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.38 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.38 |
starseeker |
MATRIX
bn_mat_ck() bad matrix: |
| 21:29.39 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.41 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.45 |
starseeker |
db_recurse(cyl): matrix does not preserve
axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.47 |
starseeker |
MATRIX bad
matrix: |
| 21:29.49 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.57 |
starseeker |
bn_mat_ck(inside): bad matrix, does not
preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.59 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.00 |
louipc |
spam! |
| 21:30.01 |
starseeker |
MATRIX
bn_mat_ck() bad matrix: |
| 21:30.05 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.13 |
starseeker |
db_recurse(inside): matrix does not
preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:30.15 |
starseeker |
MATRIX bad
matrix: |
| 21:30.17 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.23 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.25 |
starseeker |
ERROR:
db_walk_dispatcher() region 0 started with no state |
| 21:30.27 |
starseeker |
mged> |
| 21:30.29 |
starseeker |
oh,
sorry |
| 21:30.31 |
starseeker |
my
bad |
| 21:30.35 |
starseeker |
but drawing
didn't show |
| 21:30.51 |
louipc |
I tried too I
think there's something wrong with that model.. |
| 21:31.13 |
brlcad |
type
dbversion |
| 21:31.13 |
starseeker |
will mged
work loading the asc files? |
| 21:31.13 |
louipc |
try one in
share/brlcad/7.10.2/db |
| 21:31.23 |
brlcad |
that looks
like a v4 |
| 21:31.28 |
starseeker |
I am - cpu is
crunching like crazy ;-) |
| 21:31.34 |
louipc |
brlcad:
yep |
| 21:31.53 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Well, I uploaded all the ebuild goodies to the bug
report. |
| 21:32.07 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Now
we'll see how intense the flaming is ;-) |
| 21:32.27 |
brlcad |
gah, who put
a v4 .g into cvs |
| 21:32.30 |
starseeker |
erm - what
does Detached mean? |
| 21:32.33 |
louipc |
not
me |
| 21:33.41 |
brlcad |
starseeker,
that cup.g is useless to you, the v4 files are platform-specific ..
every time I think we've gotten rid of them, one pops up
somewhere |
| 21:33.48 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 21:33.50 |
brlcad |
it has to be
converted to a v5 on the same platform that made it |
| 21:34.15 |
brlcad |
either way,
that's a useless/boring .g .. pick one of the other ones that were
installed in the db dir |
| 21:34.15 |
louipc |
:D |
| 21:34.29 |
louipc |
try the
barbie toy jeep! |
| 21:34.33 |
starseeker |
Is there one
that has a hope of loading in under an hour? |
| 21:34.50 |
louipc |
starseeker:
what are you running man? |
| 21:35.09 |
starseeker |
lgt-test was
chomping cpu like nobody's business, and I'm a dual P4 |
| 21:35.25 |
starseeker |
OK, toyjeep
came up - let's try drawing it... |
| 21:35.42 |
louipc |
I'm on a pIII
866MHz and that loaded instantly pretty much |
| 21:35.57 |
starseeker |
toyjeep did,
except I still don't see anything |
| 21:36.02 |
louipc |
draw
all |
| 21:36.14 |
starseeker |
all does not
exist |
| 21:36.16 |
starseeker |
grr. |
| 21:36.50 |
brlcad |
tops |
| 21:37.01 |
brlcad |
that lists
the top-level geometry |
| 21:37.05 |
brlcad |
then e one of
them |
| 21:37.11 |
brlcad |
e ==
draw |
| 21:37.37 |
starseeker |
OK, I did
open on toyjeep.asc |
| 21:37.44 |
louipc |
opendb |
| 21:37.46 |
brlcad |
you can't
open .asc files, open the .g |
| 21:38.18 |
brlcad |
you could
import an .asc, but you'd still have to open a .g first to import
it into |
| 21:38.24 |
starseeker |
I'm in
brlcad-7.10.2/db and I'm only seeing .asc files |
| 21:38.39 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 21:39.07 |
brlcad |
then either
you selected the wrong file menu option (import) or you're missing
the binary files that would have been generated during
compilation |
| 21:39.23 |
louipc |
:( |
| 21:39.37 |
starseeker |
one
sec... |
| 21:39.43 |
louipc |
starseeker:
hehe |
| 21:39.53 |
starseeker |
THERE they
are |
| 21:39.57 |
louipc |
SWEET |
| 21:40.11 |
starseeker |
bingo |
| 21:40.13 |
starseeker |
sorry
guys |
| 21:40.16 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 21:40.33 |
starseeker |
I have a few
directories left over from when I was looking at what had to be
patched. |
| 21:41.26 |
louipc |
lgt-test.g
opened pretty much instantly for me :P |
| 21:42.01 |
brlcad |
there's no .g
we provide that should not open instantly |
| 21:42.23 |
starseeker |
The .g files
look fine - it didn't like getting handed the raw asc file though
;-) |
| 21:42.24 |
brlcad |
even massive
1GB models should pretty much open instantly |
| 21:42.34 |
louipc |
oooh |
| 21:44.08 |
starseeker |
Yep, working
like a charm now. |
| 21:44.43 |
starseeker |
Installed in
opt from an ebuild, environment variables seem to be working,
license file where it should be... life is good :-) |
| 21:45.01 |
louipc |
congrats |
| 21:45.09 |
starseeker |
Thanks
:-) |
| 21:45.44 |
starseeker |
Really y'all
did all the hard work - it was just a question of making sure all
the options are set correctly by the system. |
| 21:46.17 |
``Erik |
prep takes
~40s on a ~1g file (almost all bot, if nto all) |
| 21:46.18 |
starseeker |
Now if the
Gentoo devs just don't get a bee in their bonnet again about the
use of /opt... |
| 21:47.48 |
brlcad |
prep isn't
the same as opening the file, that's just a quick file
scan |
| 21:48.26 |
starseeker |
Don't worry
guys - I just missed the part that the db files were compiled in
the build rather than being present beforehand. |
| 21:48.48 |
starseeker |
It's working
like a charm now :-) |
| 21:48.50 |
brlcad |
i've seen the
file i/o over nfs make it take longer than usual, but that's
specific to an nfs setup |
| 21:49.04 |
brlcad |
CIA-4:
poke |
| 21:50.12 |
starseeker |
So, what do
we sub in for cups.g in the manual? |
| 21:51.14 |
brlcad |
i already
fixed it, it's a v5 now |
| 21:51.38 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
suggest using that manual regardless, the ones on the website are
better |
| 21:52.03 |
starseeker |
ah
:-) |
| 21:52.17 |
starseeker |
You mean the
pdf manuals? |
| 21:52.25 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 21:52.39 |
starseeker |
OK, sounds
good |
| 21:52.58 |
starseeker |
I was curious
about those, actually - do they exist only as pdfs? |
| 21:54.44 |
starseeker |
If they're
LaTeX, perhaps they too could be rendered into html and replace the
current html manual? |
| 21:54.45 |
brlcad |
no, they're
available in another equally useless format |
| 21:54.50 |
starseeker |
lol |
| 21:55.33 |
brlcad |
the goal is
actually to turn them into docbook, then stash them into the
repository, keep them up to date and auto-generate pdf, html,
txt |
| 21:55.44 |
starseeker |
Cool. |
| 21:56.00 |
brlcad |
a couple
folks started on this (yet again) a couple weeks ago, but they
seemingly have disappeared |
| 21:56.36 |
louipc |
maybe I
should poke the poppler people to add docbook
conversion |
| 21:56.36 |
starseeker |
Well, if the
ebuild gets accepted that sounds like a good #2 task, assuming I
won't stomp on any toes |
| 21:56.51 |
louipc |
right now you
can convert to some other weird xml format |
| 21:57.08 |
starseeker |
How exacting
are the formatting requirements? |
| 21:57.25 |
starseeker |
Do we need to
precisely duplicate the visual style of the current
versions? |
| 21:57.50 |
brlcad |
getting the
straight-up conversion isn't too hard -- it's mostly what's the
best way to automate the task given it's about 800 pages or so with
images |
| 21:57.55 |
brlcad |
oh, heck
no |
| 21:58.09 |
brlcad |
but it should
maintain the content (with images) |
| 21:58.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/cup.g: don't put a v4
into the repository. if we must stash .g files, then at least stash
a v5 so that it's not platform-specific. thanks to starseeker for
pointing out the problem. |
| 21:58.26 |
brlcad |
that's what
docbook is all about, just the structure, no presentation
element |
| 21:58.36 |
brlcad |
about time
CIA-4 |
| 21:59.02 |
starseeker |
OK. |
| 22:00.25 |
louipc |
starseeker:
pdfimages in poppler will do it... |
| 22:00.38 |
starseeker |
that's a help
:-) |
| 22:01.11 |
starseeker |
oh good,
gentoo has poppler in portage... |
| 22:01.28 |
louipc |
looks like
they got rid of that weird xml conversion |
| 22:02.02 |
louipc |
oh maybe
not |
| 22:03.33 |
minute |
brlcad:
Qucikee: does 'cmd.php' mean anything to you? |
| 22:04.35 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 22:05.15 |
brlcad |
not
immediately, should it? |
| 22:05.54 |
minute |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:06.10 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
if you're really interested in working on it, you'd probably have a
lot easier success working with the original ms word documents,
converting to some tagged format or even importing to something
else (like OO or WP) that might export docbook, then just dealing
with cleanup |
| 22:06.26 |
brlcad |
minute:
AAH |
| 22:06.32 |
brlcad |
yes, now it
means a whole lot more |
| 22:06.35 |
starseeker |
Word? ick.
Yes, that would be easier. |
| 22:06.47 |
brlcad |
like I
said,.. useless :) |
| 22:07.45 |
louipc |
I tried to
make an html with that doc via OOo but it turned out pretty bad
:/ |
| 22:08.13 |
brlcad |
minute:
you're undoubtedly getting hit by the vulnerability detection
modules in apache -- they perform hundreds of regex comparisons on
every URL to prevent intrusion abuse -- cmd.php being an
exceptionally common one with the right URL structure |
| 22:09.15 |
minute |
brlcad:
ffs |
| 22:09.34 |
minute |
Anything I
can do? |
| 22:10.10 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
it: mod_security-message: Access denied with code 403. Pattern
match
"/(cse|cmd)\\.(c|dat|gif|jpe?g|jpeg|png|sh|txt|bmp|dat|txt|js|html?|tmp|php|asp)\\?"
at REQUEST_URI [severity "EMER |
| 22:10.14 |
brlcad |
GENCY"] |
| 22:10.35 |
brlcad |
rename the
file? :) |
| 22:10.40 |
minute |
That won't
work. |
| 22:11.37 |
minute |
Since it is
included in another file. |
| 22:12.08 |
minute |
and it
completely mucks up when I try to change the url |
| 22:12.33 |
minute |
anyway, sleep
for me now |
| 22:12.43 |
starseeker |
Mrf. The
gentoo guys are appalled at the patching of files generated by
configure and suggest tracking it back to the proper
area... |
| 22:12.48 |
starseeker |
grrr |
| 22:12.55 |
starseeker |
Come on TCL,
do it right... |
| 22:13.14 |
brlcad |
minute: good
night |
| 22:13.22 |
brlcad |
i presume
this is for myldapadmin? |
| 22:13.26 |
minute |
yeah |
| 22:13.30 |
minute |
phpldapadmin |
| 22:13.36 |
brlcad |
k |
| 22:13.50 |
minute |
goodnight |
| 22:14.03 |
brlcad |
goodnight,
i'm working on ldap more today too |
| 22:14.11 |
brlcad |
hopefully
will make some good progress while you're sleeping ;) |
| 22:14.21 |
minute |
:) sounds
good, thanks |
| 22:14.40 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Assuming the Gentoo devs are ever satisfied, I'd be glad to take a
look at the Word -> docbook question |
| 22:14.55 |
brlcad |
i'd be glad
too :) |
| 22:15.40 |
minute |
I hope so
:D |
| 22:16.29 |
brlcad |
er, that was
to starseeker :) .. i'm thrilled about the web work, and actually
have been reading up on ldap for a while now :) |
| 22:16.44 |
brlcad |
still soaking
it all up |
| 22:16.50 |
minute |
heh |
| 22:17.19 |
brlcad |
had a mild
diversion with 'adventure' last night.. would make for a nifty
easter egg :) |
| 22:17.49 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 22:18.19 |
starseeker |
OK, I'm
starting to daydream about ousting TCL/TK and replacing it with QT4
- that's probably a good indication I should get
supper. |
| 22:18.32 |
louipc |
indeed |
| 22:18.33 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:21.16 |
starseeker |
QT4 + VTK...
mmmmm... |
| 22:21.22 |
starseeker |
Alright,
food |
| 23:00.28 |
Maloeran |
An apparently
good and reliable IQ test for anyone looking for something to do :
http://iqtest.dk/main.swf |
| 23:00.46 |
Maloeran |
Unlike most
online tests, there are truly challenging questions near the
end |
| 23:03.13 |
Maloeran |
And it's an
interesting test, entirely based on logic and pattern
recognition |
| 23:15.25 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 00:16.36 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
You're a tcl/tk fan? |
| 00:42.48 |
louipc |
they just
need to fix the build environment |
| 00:43.13 |
louipc |
or
something |
| 00:48.45 |
starseeker |
it's the
stupid tcl/tk man page install |
| 01:03.55 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: hm,
that is a pretty interesting test |
| 01:04.18 |
brlcad |
fun too.. a
couple I wasn't so sure about though |
| 01:05.19 |
brlcad |
that last one
is pretty damn hard, not sure my reasoning on the pattern was
sound, but I eventually found something that seemed to
fit |
| 01:07.14 |
brlcad |
arbitrarily
limiting the time seems a bit contrary to mensa-criteria, though ..
most of their official tests have rather generous time |
| 01:07.57 |
poolio_ |
The whole
test is bogus...but possibly fun |
| 01:09.22 |
brlcad |
yeah, I've
seen considerably harder mensa tests, but it does have a few with
some pretty complex patterns that took a few minutes to be sure
of |
| 01:11.36 |
poolio_ |
yeah but it's
also only testing a small part of what an actual IQ test would
cover |
| 01:12.27 |
brlcad |
would be fun
to use that test on some coworkers.. see how they do |
| 01:13.47 |
brlcad |
damnit, I
really want to know what I missed :) |
| 01:19.45 |
starseeker |
brlcad: what
version of autoconf does BRL-CAD need? |
| 01:23.55 |
brlcad |
autogen.sh
lists the minimums |
| 01:24.45 |
brlcad |
shouldn't
matter so long as it meets the minimum, don't know if you can
specify "just use the latest" |
| 01:24.54 |
brlcad |
or
2.50+ |
| 01:24.58 |
starseeker |
It seems the
"correct" place to patch for the man page install is in the
Makefile.in, but when I try I get... |
| 01:25.09 |
starseeker |
hang on,
pastebin coming up... |
| 01:25.28 |
Maloeran |
brlcad, I
really couldn't figure out the last question, as well as a couple
more in the last 10 |
| 01:26.19 |
brlcad |
yeah, 33 was
a bitch |
| 01:26.26 |
brlcad |
i got stuck
on that one for several minutes |
| 01:26.35 |
Maloeran |
Although I
lost time helping people in efnet's #c while doing the
test |
| 01:26.39 |
starseeker |
http://pastebin.com/d2b9155af |
| 01:27.21 |
brlcad |
127's not bad
at all .. with the rough estimates, that's probably "close enough"
to at least test for mensa ;) |
| 01:27.33 |
starseeker |
<PROTECTED> |
| 01:27.33 |
brlcad |
since that's
clearly not a spot-on test |
| 01:27.49 |
brlcad |
hm, BC_BOLD
is defined by macros in the m4/ dir |
| 01:28.18 |
starseeker |
maybe that's
the m4 patch in portage |
| 01:28.23 |
brlcad |
same as
BC_CONFIG_CACHE .. seems that it's ignoring our -Im4 directive from
autogen.sh ... does it run our autogen.sh? |
| 01:28.23 |
starseeker |
grr, let me
add that too... |
| 01:29.01 |
brlcad |
otherwise it
needs to .. autoreconf needs it if that's what you're
running |
| 01:35.23 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: you
should "try again" when you have time to think through
uninterrupted ;) |
| 01:36.45 |
brlcad |
the test is a
bit biased towards geometric patterns, but still pretty fun --
thanks for the link |
| 01:38.26 |
brlcad |
starseeker: I
see from your pastebin that it is running the autotools prep steps
directly .. what does that? the eautoreconf and other
steps |
| 01:38.27 |
Maloeran |
*nods* Yes,
it's fun stuff |
| 01:38.49 |
Maloeran |
I'm afraid my
results will be biased if I take the test again, I'll remember the
hard patterns I already figured out |
| 01:39.08 |
Maloeran |
Would it be
inappropriate to ask how much you got? |
| 01:39.19 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: but
like I said .. in a true mensa test, time is irrelevant |
| 01:39.24 |
starseeker |
yes,
eautoreconf is what's running autoconf |
| 01:39.31 |
brlcad |
nah, I got a
138 |
| 01:39.49 |
Maloeran |
Neat |
| 01:40.45 |
brlcad |
theoretically, you keep taking it and
you'll only know what you know and given any reasonable amount of
time, you're not really going to get any better without
cheating |
| 01:41.26 |
Maloeran |
I guess I
should take it again some day. At the moment, the result implies
that I got dumber since the real test I took during high school
years :) |
| 01:41.38 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 01:41.45 |
brlcad |
i doubt it
correllates |
| 01:41.58 |
brlcad |
there's only
what .. 39 questions or something |
| 01:42.08 |
louipc |
what perks do
you get if you're in mensa? |
| 01:42.41 |
brlcad |
geeky
bragging rights |
| 01:42.47 |
brlcad |
pretty
pointless chest pounding |
| 01:43.08 |
louipc |
is it good to
use for picking up chicks? |
| 01:43.12 |
brlcad |
hah,
riiight |
| 01:43.26 |
louipc |
:D |
| 01:43.43 |
brlcad |
it would
likely make for decent resume material |
| 01:43.49 |
brlcad |
for bean
counters that cared |
| 01:44.09 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 01:46.40 |
brlcad |
but same
reason I wouldn't apply when I was a teenager still holds today ...
there's just no point other than self-gratification bragging
rights |
| 01:46.54 |
louipc |
there's a few
AIM clients on linux |
| 01:47.29 |
Maloeran |
The last time
I tried Gaim, it would segfault when trying to send a
message |
| 01:47.42 |
Maloeran |
Ah by the way
Sean, just in case you could be interested ; I'm getting married on
October 13th... to a girl with american citizenship |
| 01:47.48 |
brlcad |
i'm more
impressed by someone that makes it to the olympics or works on a
code for years on end to improve it, or can work through tricky
algorithmic problems with regard to practical limitations,
etc |
| 01:47.57 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
hehehe, I heard |
| 01:48.01 |
brlcad |
congratulations |
| 01:48.02 |
louipc |
yeah it was
pretty bad, it's gotten better though |
| 01:48.10 |
louipc |
called
'pidgin' now |
| 01:48.32 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: so
you plan on getting naturalized afterwards? :) |
| 01:48.43 |
brlcad |
where is she
at? |
| 01:48.48 |
Maloeran |
Sure, I'm
thinking about moving to San Diego at the moment, I really enjoyed
my time there |
| 01:48.52 |
louipc |
cool |
| 01:48.53 |
Maloeran |
Technically,
she's in Montreal |
| 01:49.13 |
louipc |
and
practically? |
| 01:49.20 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 01:49.31 |
brlcad |
virtually? |
| 01:49.33 |
starseeker |
sorry guys,
gotta run - brlcad, I'll see if I can dig up more on what's going
on with the config step here |
| 01:49.36 |
starseeker |
thanks
all! |
| 01:49.38 |
brlcad |
see
ya |
| 01:49.40 |
louipc |
cheers |
| 01:50.06 |
Maloeran |
Hrm. Let me
clarify : she has been living in Montreal for the last 8 years, but
she has american citizenship |
| 01:50.41 |
Maloeran |
Apparently,
we could live in both places at the same time, having an address
both in Canada and the U.S. |
| 01:50.59 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 01:51.12 |
louipc |
it makes
taxes a bit messy I think though |
| 01:52.19 |
Maloeran |
Yes, it's
rather messy already, perhaps partly because her parents don't know
about the marriage |
| 01:53.13 |
louipc |
indeed |
| 01:55.07 |
Maloeran |
San Diego was
fantastic, it's just such a long way from Montreal if I want to
come back see friends ( or my future wife ) on a regular
basis |
| 01:55.20 |
Maloeran |
But I just
couldn't imagine myself living in Belcamp or Edgewood |
| 01:56.34 |
brlcad |
ah, just
elope, show up at their door one day and go "hi mom! dad!" and hug
them |
| 01:57.08 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
live in the city (baltimore) .. way more interesting :) |
| 01:57.20 |
brlcad |
or even in DC
or Philadelphia |
| 01:58.05 |
Maloeran |
I didn't like
that much what I have seen of Baltimore, I haven't really checked
PHL beyond the airport though |
| 01:58.45 |
Maloeran |
Eheh brlcad,
I'm sure they'll figure it out somehow, perhaps very soon... with
the courthouse leaving messages in their phone mailbox |
| 01:59.03 |
brlcad |
heh, really?
why would the courthouse call them? |
| 01:59.47 |
Maloeran |
She lives
with her father in Montreal, her mother is at San Diego ( I spent
days with her family there too ) |
| 02:00.43 |
Maloeran |
We met in San
Diego before Siggraph, went together to Mexico for a couple days
afterwards. I think I have absolutely no memory of the conference
itself |
| 02:03.54 |
brlcad |
wow, that's a
first I've heard of .. finding a wife before/during
siggraph(!) |
| 02:03.58 |
brlcad |
was she
attending? |
| 02:04.05 |
brlcad |
did you know
her beforehand or something? |
| 02:04.43 |
Maloeran |
She was in
vacation in San Diego to visit her mother |
| 02:04.59 |
Maloeran |
We had a
common friend back in Montreal who got us to meet, she came to get
me at the airport |
| 02:05.23 |
Maloeran |
And... things
went fast from that point, we decided to get married within 2 days
:) |
| 02:06.37 |
poolio_ |
woah |
| 02:06.43 |
Maloeran |
I got passes
for her and her mother for Siggraph ( thanks Mark! ), so they did
attend |
| 02:07.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a check for icc's -p gprof
profile option |
| 02:11.50 |
Maloeran |
Just to
clarify, she did know through our common friend of vague thoughts
on a possible "arranged marriage" to get me an immigration visa,
it's not really a decision to normally make within 2
days |
| 02:12.39 |
brlcad |
that's
insane |
| 02:12.56 |
brlcad |
but hey,
cool |
| 02:13.02 |
brlcad |
hope she's
good stuff for ya :) |
| 02:14.02 |
Maloeran |
Eheh. We had
a big pre-marriage party on the September 8th, everybody nicely
dressed with her in a marriage dress... but no one actually took
pictures |
| 02:14.16 |
Maloeran |
I'll try to
get some on October 13th official marriage |
| 02:15.39 |
brlcad |
aw, it
doesn't need to be fancy, just to see what the two of you look like
together ;) |
| 02:15.44 |
Maloeran |
In any case,
my productivity has totally collapsed since Siggraph, which is
slightly disturbing |
| 02:15.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't mention the -pg flag now
that it checks more than one |
| 02:15.59 |
Maloeran |
Ahah |
| 02:16.00 |
brlcad |
i can
imagine |
| 02:16.15 |
brlcad |
women have
that ability to whip you entirely to their will |
| 02:17.02 |
brlcad |
a good sign,
hopefully will continue through past the 5-year mark :) |
| 02:23.36 |
Maloeran |
I'm almost
frightened by how easily she can compromise my principles. On the
September 8th party with a dozen friends, she managed to make me
drink alcohol for the first time in my life, with so little
resistance |
| 02:24.39 |
Maloeran |
The right
hemisphere of the brain seems to have risen against the opression
of reason of logic for so many years. Anyhow, it's all a very
disturbing experience from my point of view |
| 02:38.45 |
louipc |
you just need
to drink so much booze that she begs you to stop then you're
good |
| 02:44.03 |
brlcad |
yeah, I read
that the other night ... good for her :) |
| 02:45.19 |
brlcad |
the sign of a
good woman, pushing you to new experiences, expanding
horizons |
| 02:46.09 |
louipc |
as long as
she can take it as well as dish it out ;) |
| 03:14.48 |
Maloeran |
Hrm, I'm not
finding much information on amateur ( yet decent ) scuba diving
photography. Montreal doesn't seem to best place to find this kind
of material either |
| 05:25.52 |
brlcad |
minute: well,
that's some progress .. I think I now understand the basic
organizational structure of the default schemas and have created
the db for brlcad, populated with just one user entry at the moment
.. next step will be to read up on drupal and/or mediawiki ldap,
but I'll have to continue that tomorrow (my turn to z) |
| 05:30.44 |
brlcad |
ldap tis a
fairly flexible and robust albeit somewhat complex
beast.. |
| 05:31.01 |
brlcad |
several
gotchas in the setup and configurations |
| 06:09.22 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:31.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Z-80YS
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:04.30 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 09:04.45 |
qazwsx |
hey, I'm
looking for a fast open source csg library |
| 09:04.53 |
qazwsx |
can I get
some honest opinions on brlcad ? |
| 09:05.11 |
qazwsx |
perfecrably
something I can interface with OpenGL |
| 09:55.41 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-006-080.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:53.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548778C1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:32.28 |
``Erik |
yes, mal, you
absolutely must provide photographic evidence. |
| 14:33.10 |
``Erik |
as for mensa,
I've known a fistful of members in the past, and my opinion is that
it's a club for people who should be able to do something useful
but don't, so they can feel better about themselves. |
| 14:39.41 |
Maloeran |
Evidence, eh?
:) All right, I'll get that camera |
| 14:48.09 |
``Erik |
and if she's
hotter than my gf, I'm gonna kick your ass and steal her, ok? :D
*duck* |
| 14:49.24 |
``Erik |
tracking data
corruption bugs sucks goat balls |
| 14:53.06 |
*** join/#brlcad et-b00n
(n=naab@i577A5FC5.versanet.de) |
| 14:53.10 |
*** part/#brlcad et-b00n
(n=naab@i577A5FC5.versanet.de) |
| 14:53.28 |
Maloeran |
Tsk, no
chance. You would have to learn to like scuba diving, rock
climbing, cycling, running... oh, and french too :) |
| 14:54.10 |
``Erik |
heh, I used
to bike :/ but I left it when I moved, need to buy
another |
| 14:54.21 |
minute |
hmm |
| 15:22.17 |
Maloeran |
Seems like
you need to buy that bicycle for over an year now, Erik |
| 15:41.54 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX39.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 15:46.23 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:47.13 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:10.53 |
``Erik |
yes, about 2
years |
| 16:59.57 |
Maloeran |
They had no
idea if the camera's data could be accessed from Linux, I guess
I'll find out soon enough |
| 17:06.36 |
``Erik |
should be
uhhh |
| 17:06.46 |
``Erik |
I d'no the
linux name, fbsd calls it umass |
| 17:06.55 |
``Erik |
basically a
usb hard drive using flash media for backing |
| 17:07.46 |
``Erik |
that's how
most cameras talk, anyways :) |
| 17:08.52 |
Maloeran |
*nods* I
heard the data could be stored in non-standard format
though |
| 17:09.01 |
Maloeran |
Which
requires their software to read, or perhaps some gimp
plugins |
| 17:10.59 |
``Erik |
hm, the few
cameras I've dorked with have all stored jfif |
| 17:11.31 |
``Erik |
I have
scripts somewhere to mount, mv, umount and convert to jpeg,
stashing them in a directory date '+%Y%m%d' |
| 17:12.49 |
Maloeran |
Right, I
see |
| 17:14.43 |
Maloeran |
The thing got
a microphone and other strange goodies. It's time to read the
manual, I never really used a modern camera |
| 17:17.10 |
``Erik |
modern
digital cameras can do a small bit of video recording |
| 17:41.00 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
most modern cameras store internally in a raw format or a jpeg
format, even internally |
| 17:41.15 |
brlcad |
the dcraw
project will decode most raw formats |
| 17:41.29 |
brlcad |
particularly
if it's a canon or nikon, but others too |
| 17:43.04 |
``Erik |
'jfif' is a
degredate jpeg with extra info, but much MUCH larger |
| 17:43.06 |
MinuteElectron |
Good morning
brlcad. |
| 17:43.15 |
``Erik |
mine's an
olympia |
| 17:44.35 |
Maloeran |
Mine's a
Canon, I'm almost through the exhaustive manual |
| 17:51.55 |
brlcad |
howdy
MinuteElectron |
| 17:52.28 |
brlcad |
heh bpoole?
:) |
| 17:52.46 |
brlcad |
no more
coolio apparently |
| 17:52.47 |
MinuteElectron |
I'm on the
same server as you :) |
| 17:52.55 |
brlcad |
yeah, just
realized that :) |
| 17:53.56 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
own_msg {ownmsgnick $2 {ownnick $[-9]0}}$1" |
| 17:53.57 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
own_msg_channel {ownmsgnick $3 {ownnick $[-9]0}{msgchannel
$1}}$2" |
| 17:53.57 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
pubmsg_me {pubmsgmenick $2 {menick $[-9]0}}$1" |
| 17:53.57 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
pubmsg_me_channel {pubmsgmenick $3 {menick $[-9]0}{msgchannel
$1}}$2" |
| 17:53.59 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
pubmsg_hilight {pubmsghinick $0 $3 $[-9]1}$2" |
| 17:54.01 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
pubmsg_hilight_channel {pubmsghinick $0 $4 $[-9]1{msgchannel
$2}}$3" |
| 17:54.04 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
pubmsg {pubmsgnick $2 {pubnick $[-9]0}}$1" |
| 17:54.07 |
MinuteElectron |
"/format
pubmsg_channel {pubmsgnick $3 {pubnick $[-9]0}{msgchannel
$1}}$2" |
| 17:54.10 |
brlcad |
woops |
| 17:54.57 |
MinuteElectron |
oops |
| 17:55.04 |
MinuteElectron |
stupid
irssi |
| 17:55.08 |
MinuteElectron |
s/irssi/me |
| 17:55.09 |
MinuteElectron |
sorry |
| 17:57.08 |
MinuteElectron |
bbl |
| 18:08.12 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548778C1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:17.59 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-006-080.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:47.21 |
brlcad |
hammer
time! |
| 18:49.05 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, I still
got 14 days to change for a better model. http://www.rayforce.net/hello.png |
| 18:50.19 |
Maloeran |
It's
definitely not worthy of marriage or scuba diving
pictures |
| 18:59.36 |
brlcad |
I knew
it! |
| 18:59.48 |
brlcad |
she .. looks
a lot like a potted plant |
| 19:00.35 |
Maloeran |
Ahaha |
| 19:01.04 |
brlcad |
i can see the
attaction |
| 19:01.09 |
brlcad |
i bet she
likes to get dirty |
| 19:01.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
camera's no good if that's the best it can do |
| 19:02.27 |
Maloeran |
Here's the
original non-resized : http://www.rayforce.net/Picture%20006.jpg |
| 19:02.31 |
Maloeran |
It's
definitely horrible |
| 19:03.54 |
brlcad |
wow |
| 19:03.58 |
brlcad |
that's
like |
| 19:04.01 |
brlcad |
crap |
| 19:04.21 |
Maloeran |
Pretty much,
yes. I guess one definitely pays extra for scuba diving
cameras |
| 19:04.22 |
brlcad |
a whole 4
Mpix? |
| 19:04.28 |
Maloeran |
7.1Mpix |
| 19:04.37 |
Maloeran |
But the
quality of the pixels themselves is fairly bad |
| 19:04.37 |
brlcad |
wow, that
can't be effective pixels |
| 19:04.53 |
brlcad |
wonder if
dpreview covers scuba cams |
| 19:06.30 |
brlcad |
hm, covers
the A570IS, http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_a570is.asp |
| 19:06.40 |
brlcad |
but .. I
can't imagine that thing being water tight |
| 19:06.57 |
Maloeran |
Oh, you have
to buy the housing kit too |
| 19:07.05 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 19:07.08 |
Maloeran |
It still has
underwater functionalities |
| 19:07.27 |
brlcad |
the rebel XT
is their best price point at the moment |
| 19:07.29 |
Maloeran |
They give
that camera 4/5 stars? |
| 19:07.49 |
Maloeran |
Could I be
using it wrong? It can't be considered good from the pictures I
presently get |
| 19:08.10 |
brlcad |
i dunno, you
could be |
| 19:08.20 |
brlcad |
the review
should have pictures they took |
| 19:08.46 |
Maloeran |
It's a lot
cheaper in the states too for some reason |
| 19:09.27 |
brlcad |
ahh, no
recent review of that one, too old |
| 19:09.48 |
brlcad |
oh, here it
is http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022201canonsa560a570is.asp |
| 19:10.24 |
brlcad |
still no
images though |
| 19:10.59 |
brlcad |
have you set
the quality to high? |
| 19:11.25 |
brlcad |
jpeg format
is usually crap for most purposes |
| 19:12.40 |
brlcad |
the way that
is pixellated, though, makes me think it's also probably in the
wrong mode too |
| 19:19.39 |
Maloeran |
You were
right, there was a higher quality mode |
| 19:21.52 |
Maloeran |
It's not
actually that much better |
| 19:25.38 |
Maloeran |
"High-quality" : http://www.rayforce.net/hello2.png
Or me showing off a tiny part of rock climbing skills : http://www.rayforce.net/hello3.png
( one arm traction ) |
| 19:31.50 |
brlcad |
can you do
the full pull up? |
| 19:32.01 |
Maloeran |
Sure, of
course |
| 19:32.15 |
brlcad |
and how much
do you weight? :) |
| 19:32.22 |
Maloeran |
64kg
:) |
| 19:32.29 |
Maloeran |
141
pounds |
| 19:32.38 |
brlcad |
heh, not too
shabby |
| 19:33.32 |
brlcad |
do you have a
climbing gym to train in? |
| 19:33.58 |
Maloeran |
I go climbing
in an interior gym about twice a week with friends, yes |
| 19:34.46 |
Maloeran |
Have you ever
tried that sport? I find it very enjoyable, there's much technique
and balance involved |
| 19:35.02 |
brlcad |
i like the
campus boards, where your only grip is by the tips of your fingers
up a slant |
| 19:35.08 |
brlcad |
oh yeah, love
it |
| 19:35.12 |
brlcad |
been a few
times |
| 19:35.35 |
Maloeran |
Really! I had
no idea you were climbing, let's go climbing next time we end up at
the same place, wherever that is |
| 19:36.01 |
brlcad |
i'm not very
good, it has only been a few times, but it has been fun |
| 19:36.17 |
Maloeran |
I climb up to
5.11a or so |
| 19:36.18 |
brlcad |
i do seem to
have the grip for it |
| 19:43.41 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-70-88.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:43.49 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: are
you here? |
| 19:44.00 |
brlcad |
depends |
| 19:44.13 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
just managed to make my home Internet connection work |
| 19:44.14 |
brlcad |
ah, hey
clock |
| 19:45.38 |
Z80-Boy |
can you ping
77.56.70.88? |
| 19:46.23 |
Maloeran |
Sure, ping
130ms or so |
| 19:46.37 |
Z80-Boy |
that should
be me |
| 19:46.41 |
brlcad |
likewise |
| 19:56.53 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
please process the query, urgent |
| 20:03.02 |
minute |
Z80-Boy: You
ping fine. |
| 20:03.31 |
Z80-Boy |
minute:
thanks |
| 20:08.16 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548778C1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:11.06 |
Maloeran |
This is
messed up. brlcad, a test image for the A570 IS :
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A570IS/FULLRES/YIMG_0168.HTM |
| 20:11.13 |
Maloeran |
This is so
far away from what I'm getting |
| 20:21.08 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: are
you raw? what's you're image mode? |
| 20:21.32 |
brlcad |
that link
isn't very great either, just more vibrant |
| 20:21.48 |
brlcad |
a little
better than yours, but then it's also an outdoor shot on a very
bright day |
| 20:22.06 |
Maloeran |
And I plan to
use that camera under 20 meters of water.. :) |
| 20:23.42 |
Maloeran |
You are right
though, outdoor shots are looking better |
| 21:47.14 |
``Erik |
hum, that
camera looks about on par for a cheap camera... |
| 21:47.38 |
``Erik |
a scuba
specific camera will be a couple hundred more, and probably look
like a giant yellow clown thingie |
| 21:48.36 |
Maloeran |
I just came
back to the shop. It's the best "compact" camera they have that can
be used for underwater photography |
| 21:49.00 |
Maloeran |
Apparently,
the quality of all "compacts" is crappy, but some guy recommended
me a list of Photoshop filters to apply |
| 21:49.38 |
Maloeran |
Beyond that,
the only options are true profesionnal underwater cameras, which
cost several thousands |
| 21:51.50 |
``Erik |
hum, my dad
bought a serious pro grade scuba camera for a few hundred bucks
about 15 years ago |
| 21:52.06 |
``Erik |
wasn't worth
shit above water, but it was fucking solid under |
| 21:52.22 |
``Erik |
perhaps it's
an issue of specialization |
| 21:52.41 |
``Erik |
my dad was a
scuba instructor for a while... |
| 21:53.04 |
``Erik |
so, y'know, a
tad bit insulted at your earlier comments *cough* :D |
| 22:00.01 |
Maloeran |
Oh
:) |
| 22:00.54 |
Maloeran |
Then again,
clearly there's no shop specialized in scuba diving photography in
Montreal |
| 22:05.18 |
*** join/#brlcad cad31
(n=42aac9d6@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:05.55 |
*** join/#brlcad cad58
(n=42aac9d6@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:25.12 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 22:33.35 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 22:46.05 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Well, calling brlcad's own autogen.sh works, so as long as that
doesn't put a bee in somebody's bonnet we may be Good To
Go. |
| 22:46.23 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Doing test build now, only Makefile.in files were
patched. |
| 23:29.55 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: if I
want to make a board of hexagonal shape in BRL-CAD I need to use
arbn limited by 8 planes, right? |
| 23:30.18 |
starseeker |
SWEEET. new
patch based on autoconf files succeeds. |
| 23:33.10 |
iraytrace |
Z80-boy:
Both the arbn and the ars would be good candidates. |
| 23:33.22 |
Z80-Boy |
what is
ars? |
| 23:34.25 |
iraytrace |
It's a
"waterline" primitive. |
| 23:36.24 |
iraytrace |
Do you need
it to be a single primitive? |
| 23:37.15 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 23:40.46 |
*** part/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) |
| 23:43.00 |
starseeker |
brlcad: It
worked! |
| 23:43.09 |
starseeker |
updated
ebuild and goodies up on bug |
| 00:02.37 |
starseeker |
brlcad: One
of the gentoo devs has downloaded the BRL-CAD tarball and will be
looking at the autoconf magic :-) |
| 00:03.07 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Dunno what that means for ebuild inclusion, but at least the
interest level is there |
| 00:03.43 |
louipc |
:D |
| 00:04.46 |
louipc |
starseeker:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/buildconf/ |
| 00:05.59 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
re: tcl/tk fan -- I guess I am :) ... |
| 00:12.23 |
brlcad |
~starseeker++ |
| 00:12.35 |
brlcad |
awesome |
| 00:13.34 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
you?! never... |
| 00:13.38 |
brlcad |
*grin* |
| 00:13.45 |
starseeker |
brlcad: :-)
:-). |
| 00:14.03 |
starseeker |
brlcad: We
should have a betting pool now - how long it takes the dev to cry
uncle ;-) |
| 00:14.20 |
brlcad |
the autoconf
magic really just boils down to running autoreconf and a few other
verfication items |
| 00:14.38 |
brlcad |
more details
on the buildconf website |
| 00:14.59 |
starseeker |
I think he's
interested in how you're checking if tcl support et. al. are
advanced enough |
| 00:15.11 |
brlcad |
in your
particular instance, you were just missing the -Im4 |
| 00:15.16 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 00:15.20 |
brlcad |
that
magic |
| 00:15.36 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Hmm.
Maybe there's an option for eautoreconf |
| 00:15.41 |
brlcad |
probably |
| 00:15.52 |
brlcad |
it's probably
just a wrapper like autogen.sh |
| 00:16.07 |
starseeker |
Well, running
autogen works fine :-) |
| 00:16.10 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 00:16.16 |
brlcad |
tis why it
exists |
| 00:16.19 |
brlcad |
it just makes
it work |
| 00:16.36 |
starseeker |
Now, on to
the documentation :-) |
| 00:16.43 |
brlcad |
hence,
http://buildconf.brlcad.org/
;) |
| 00:16.46 |
starseeker |
where do I
find the word versions? |
| 00:18.34 |
brlcad |
if you need
to explain the tcl logic (which you shouldn't probably need to),
the tests are as such .. tests for various libs that we're
compatible with (up through 8.6), then tests for header
availability, then it performs a compilation functionality test
where it actually builds a tcl interpreter app and tries to run
it |
| 00:19.32 |
louipc |
haha
sweet |
| 00:19.55 |
brlcad |
if that all
works, and it should as it's exactly what we need it to do for
mged, then the test passes and system tcl is used. if it fails,
the build falls back to using internal (and this of course all
presume that the default enable-tcl-build is in effect, i.e.
=auto) |
| 00:20.04 |
brlcad |
if you force
it on or off, it overrides the tests |
| 00:21.04 |
brlcad |
you find the
word versions from me, I've been e-mailing them to folks interested
just because I don't really want those versions to propagate around
the net (given they are readily editable, but with no revision
history/controls or easy merge features) |
| 00:21.18 |
brlcad |
pm me your
e-mail and I'll send you the big one |
| 00:23.01 |
starseeker |
ok
:-) |
| 00:27.08 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
:) |
| 00:27.25 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
are you working on docbook-ing? |
| 00:27.46 |
starseeker |
I"m going to
try ;-) |
| 00:28.07 |
yukonbob |
nice -- I've
been threatening to do the same, but haven't done anything
yet... |
| 00:28.43 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I've
never heard to ms-word master copies of the docs that generated the
pdfs, though -- am I understanding correctly that there are such
docs? |
| 00:29.25 |
louipc |
how would you
docbook it? |
| 00:29.38 |
louipc |
I was
thinking of working with the poppler project because they can
already convert to html |
| 00:30.09 |
louipc |
and they do
convert to some weird custom xml format so why not make it docbook
instead? |
| 00:30.59 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yes.. hrm, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the last time we were
talking about this a couple months ago too when that other guy was
working on it |
| 00:30.59 |
starseeker |
I was
planning on going more primitive at first - just get the text and
images out of word into something sane and go over it by
hand |
| 00:31.07 |
brlcad |
i'd sent him
one of the .doc's at the time |
| 00:31.12 |
starseeker |
good way to
learn about the system while I'm at it |
| 00:32.40 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: if it
was mentioned, I missed it or forgot it... no matter, though; now
I'm up to speed. |
| 01:15.48 |
brlcad |
okay,
uploaded |
| 03:55.51 |
starseeker |
For
extracting content from the word docs, the wv tools seem to have
done OK so far. wvDocBook generates a rather odd looking xml file
and (more importantly) the image files, and wvText generates a
readable text file (trying Vol I) |
| 03:56.16 |
starseeker |
Now the hard
part - what the toolchain is for writing and processing a docbook
file. |
| 03:58.04 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I'm
seeing things like saxon, fop, xalan docbook-xml-dtd,
docbook-xsl-stylesheets, etc. - how did you want to approach
this? |
| 03:58.16 |
starseeker |
a lot of the
tools I'm seeing recommended need java |
| 03:59.03 |
starseeker |
I'm also
hearing sgml is no longer the direction to take with docbook, xml
is the "new" way to go. |
| 03:59.06 |
brlcad |
ideally the
one with the least dependencies, easiest to maintain, easiest to
install, and most portable |
| 03:59.16 |
starseeker |
hrm |
| 03:59.21 |
brlcad |
yeah,
definitely xml docbook or xml docbook lite |
| 03:59.25 |
louipc |
cool |
| 03:59.38 |
brlcad |
doesn't
matter if it's 5 or 4.5 |
| 03:59.42 |
starseeker |
Apache FOP
seems to be a "big player" in this... |
| 04:00.09 |
brlcad |
FOP is, but
it can also be a pain to set up |
| 04:00.18 |
starseeker |
Can we make
do without it? |
| 04:00.42 |
brlcad |
ideally
something that doesn't require the java vm is easier to
manage |
| 04:00.57 |
brlcad |
but if
something else java-based is that much better, then so be
it |
| 04:01.05 |
starseeker |
If we want an
XSL-FO processor... let's see what else is out there... |
| 04:01.09 |
louipc |
starseeker:
what are those wv tools? |
| 04:01.26 |
brlcad |
i've used a
handful of the docbook processors, and none of them seemed "great"
.. so it's really just finding the one that's the least of a
headache |
| 04:01.28 |
starseeker |
They're used
by Abiword, IIRC. |
| 04:02.11 |
starseeker |
"Tool for
conversion of MSWord doc and rtf files to something
readable" |
| 04:02.14 |
brlcad |
ideally there
will be a make target like 'make doc' or ./configure --enable-docs
that will generate the documentation by running the docbook
processor(s) |
| 04:02.20 |
starseeker |
http://wvware.sourceforge.net/ |
| 04:02.54 |
louipc |
thanks |
| 04:02.54 |
starseeker |
There's a wv2
which I think is an update - may not be needed for this case, but
we'll see |
| 04:03.07 |
brlcad |
so something
that can be readily set up under freebsd would be nice so it can be
tied to the website automatically via automated builds |
| 04:04.21 |
starseeker |
Does xmlroff
ring any bells? |
| 04:05.00 |
brlcad |
not
particularly |
| 04:05.54 |
brlcad |
output
formats of importance are pdf and html, other useful outputs would
be txt, rtf/doc, ps, and odf |
| 04:06.29 |
starseeker |
I'm going to
have to take some time and dig - the tool chain for docbook seems
both complex and... er... confusing |
| 04:08.19 |
brlcad |
it is pretty
complex |
| 04:10.45 |
louipc |
oh wow wv is
sweet |
| 04:10.58 |
louipc |
that does
it |
| 04:11.05 |
starseeker |
Does
what? |
| 04:13.15 |
louipc |
extracts the
content and images and references the images in the document
:D |
| 04:13.24 |
starseeker |
Yep
:-) |
| 04:13.55 |
starseeker |
the docbook
it spits out I think is not what we want though - it preserves all
the literal blank lines, at least at a quick glance |
| 04:14.03 |
starseeker |
great way to
get images though |
| 04:14.12 |
starseeker |
We want human
editable XML |
| 04:14.23 |
louipc |
yeah empty
para |
| 04:14.34 |
starseeker |
And as I'm
digging I'm not seeing too many alternatives to Apache FOP
:-( |
| 04:15.29 |
starseeker |
PassiveTeX is
apparently pretty well outdated |
| 04:15.38 |
louipc |
:/ |
| 04:16.32 |
starseeker |
Lotta
commercial ones... |
| 04:16.49 |
starseeker |
That's a
surprise, I would have thought there would be wider tool support
for docbook |
| 04:17.48 |
starseeker |
I guess we
can do it, but there'll have to be some rather extensive
documentation on the documentation system ;-) |
| 04:19.09 |
starseeker |
Oh, well. At
least extraction was easy! |
| 04:21.08 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Is
LaTeX out due to it's lack of good output options? |
| 04:21.10 |
louipc |
:D |
| 04:28.12 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
no, not out of the question, nothing really is |
| 04:28.30 |
brlcad |
just whatever
is easiest to set up and automate that gives the output
:) |
| 04:30.28 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
even have to "match" the output, it should just look
good |
| 07:25.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:26.38 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-006-080.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:30.28 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:04.40 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:06.34 |
*** join/#brlcad cad78
(n=438e820f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:57.55 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
tried to edit an arbn in the graphics menu editor and it said it's
not implemented for this kind of primitive |
| 11:58.27 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
want to ask the coefficients for the planes, which actually define
a normal vector, is it a vector that points out of the body or into
the body? |
| 12:31.11 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:19.19 |
``Erik |
could also
use 'jade' like the fbsd project... :D |
| 13:31.17 |
brlcad |
I liked jade
when I was working that area |
| 13:31.32 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: did
you figure out yesterday anything on my machine? |
| 13:31.34 |
brlcad |
it's a bit of
a trick to get docbook/xml to work with it, but it
works |
| 13:31.50 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
yeah, I compiled and ran the latest with no problems :) |
| 13:31.59 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
remotely through X? |
| 13:32.03 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 13:32.08 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
latest == which version? |
| 13:32.18 |
brlcad |
latest ==
latest sources in cvs |
| 13:32.49 |
brlcad |
could have
made 7.10.0 work, but that tarball had a few files missing and some
other minor annoyances not worth even disabling |
| 13:32.53 |
Z80-Boy |
what did you
type to run mged? |
| 13:32.57 |
brlcad |
s/few files/a
file/ |
| 13:33.20 |
Z80-Boy |
did I supply
a corrupted tarball? |
| 13:33.48 |
brlcad |
no, there's
just a file missing from the dist that was fixed that same day, but
missing nonetheless |
| 13:33.59 |
brlcad |
.2 fixed it
shortly thereafter |
| 13:34.05 |
brlcad |
and the fix
is simple, just turn off jove |
| 13:34.12 |
brlcad |
or touch the
missing file |
| 13:34.12 |
Z80-Boy |
what did you
type in which dir to run the CVS mged? I want to try
too. |
| 13:34.51 |
brlcad |
well, ideally
you should install, otherwise the problem you were probably running
into is an LD_LIBRARY_PATH issue since Tcl/Tk only build as shared
libraries by default |
| 13:35.05 |
brlcad |
so you have
to install to get the tcl/tk libs, or you have to set your ld_lib
path |
| 13:35.08 |
Z80-Boy |
but you
couldn't install you weren't root |
| 13:35.18 |
Z80-Boy |
so what did
you type to verify that mged works? |
| 13:35.21 |
brlcad |
sure, I just
set the ld_lib path |
| 13:35.43 |
brlcad |
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=src/other/tcl/unix:src/other/tk/unix
src/mged/mged |
| 13:36.14 |
Z80-Boy |
Really, seems
to work. |
| 13:36.23 |
brlcad |
you
doubted? |
| 13:36.30 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 13:36.34 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 13:36.40 |
Z80-Boy |
how can I do
the CVS checkout and compile myself? |
| 13:36.51 |
brlcad |
~cadcvs |
| 13:36.51 |
ibot |
To obtain
BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
&& cvs -d
:pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad
checkout -P brlcad |
| 13:36.57 |
Z80-Boy |
wow
:) |
| 13:37.59 |
Z80-Boy |
missing
information: "and press ENTER". |
| 13:38.11 |
Z80-Boy |
(to get
through the password) |
| 13:38.13 |
``Erik |
you need to
make sure that you have reasonably recent vrsions of automake,
autoconf and libtool and you need to run the 'autogen.sh'
script |
| 13:38.29 |
brlcad |
yeah, he had
those |
| 13:38.31 |
Z80-Boy |
which brl-cad
must have done? |
| 13:38.41 |
brlcad |
those obsd
really annoying wraps them so that you have to set env
vars |
| 13:38.52 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
have to run: |
| 13:39.03 |
brlcad |
export
AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.60 |
| 13:39.15 |
brlcad |
export
AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.10 |
| 13:39.25 |
Z80-Boy |
http://store.grainsurfboards.com/products/the-root |
| 13:39.25 |
brlcad |
or something
like that, might have your versions wrong |
| 13:39.43 |
brlcad |
just look
for: locate bin/automake |
| 13:40.32 |
brlcad |
put that
version into the vars |
| 13:40.52 |
``Erik |
the number of
'menstraul calendars' on freshmeat is just disturbing
O.o |
| 13:42.42 |
brlcad |
er,
one? |
| 13:43.06 |
brlcad |
i see one app
for a mobile phone, but nothing else |
| 13:43.20 |
``Erik |
I've seen a
fistful listed over the years |
| 13:43.29 |
Z80-Boy |
.oO(those
women) |
| 13:43.59 |
brlcad |
nothing
coming up on search, this must be something you look for a lot
:P |
| 13:44.24 |
``Erik |
well,
probably a combination of geeks who've never had to worry about
that and married geeks trying to breed |
| 13:44.34 |
``Erik |
heh, yes, I
must control my ovum. O.o |
| 13:44.51 |
brlcad |
there's three
more if you search my ation |
| 13:45.00 |
brlcad |
s/my/by/ |
| 13:46.44 |
``Erik |
google pulls
up a slew of 'em if you just dump keywords in |
| 13:47.00 |
``Erik |
but a lot are
multiple hit dealies... project page, activity stats, screenshot,
etc all for one project |
| 13:48.52 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877BE3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:02.12 |
Z80-Boy |
so *_VERSION
set, ./autogen.sh ran |
| 14:04.54 |
Z80-Boy |
7.10.3,
woohoo :) |
| 14:05.48 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
question: the normal vectors for boundary planes specified when
building arbn on commandline, are they pointing outwards or inwards
relative to the resulting solid? |
| 15:08.40 |
brlcad |
outwards |
| 15:09.08 |
Z80-Boy |
and it asks
for distance between the plane and the origin |
| 15:09.26 |
Z80-Boy |
Is this still
the distance itself when the vector doesn't have a unit
length? |
| 15:10.17 |
brlcad |
the vector
will be unitized |
| 15:10.34 |
brlcad |
so if you
give something > 1, then length will be scaled |
| 15:10.49 |
brlcad |
if the vector
is the size you want, then the distance/scaling factor should be
1 |
| 15:10.59 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't get
it |
| 15:11.35 |
Z80-Boy |
"so if you
give something > 1" -> does "something" refer to vector
length or the distance? |
| 15:12.02 |
Z80-Boy |
"then length
will be scaled" -> does this mean I enter 800 and the plane may
possibly end up being 1600 instead of 800? |
| 15:12.03 |
brlcad |
example: in
arbn arbn 6 1 0 0 10 0 1 0 10 0 0 1 10 -1 0 0 10 0 -1 0 10 0 0 -1
10 .. creates a 20x20x20 box because of the unit
vectors |
| 15:12.25 |
brlcad |
if you give a
vector length > 1 |
| 15:14.13 |
brlcad |
example2: in
arbn2 arbn 6 5 0 0 10 0 1 0 10 0 0 1 10 -1 0 0 10 0 -1 0 10 0 0 -1
1 .. creates a smaller box because of the 5 0 0 vector (so length
is 10 / 5 = 2) .. making the box 12x20x20 |
| 15:14.48 |
Z80-Boy |
oh so it's a
misnomer in brl-cad |
| 15:15.01 |
brlcad |
oop, missing
the last 10 |
| 15:15.04 |
Z80-Boy |
it asks for
distance, but actually it's not distance, but the fourth equation
coefficient |
| 15:15.48 |
brlcad |
er, it's
still a distance, but still also scaled by the vector |
| 15:15.55 |
brlcad |
it could
probably say "scaled distance" |
| 15:16.25 |
Z80-Boy |
this is
really frustrating - I am already trying to determine how to make a
triangle with chopped corners for the 3rd day |
| 15:16.32 |
Z80-Boy |
First I read
the Volume II blah blah |
| 15:16.55 |
Z80-Boy |
which gave me
a lot of irrelevant information, but the really important one -
which way the vector points and what the fourth number means - was
absent |
| 15:17.14 |
Z80-Boy |
Then I tried
to use the graphical clickable editor just to figure out it isn't
supported for arbn |
| 15:17.23 |
Z80-Boy |
ted is also
not supported for arbn... |
| 15:17.36 |
brlcad |
well, you
could have figured out "which way the vector points" in a minute by
just creating one |
| 15:18.05 |
Z80-Boy |
At least now,
after several hours fiddling with calculator, I can put in the
number and with a bit of luck not make a mistake a get the right
shape |
| 15:18.16 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
how? |
| 15:18.40 |
brlcad |
in
? |
| 15:18.47 |
Z80-Boy |
how to try it
out? |
| 15:19.20 |
brlcad |
by creating a
simple shape, like in the example I gave |
| 15:19.28 |
brlcad |
simple box,
boom done |
| 15:19.56 |
brlcad |
had the
vectors been reversed, it would have been pretty
apparent |
| 15:19.58 |
Z80-Boy |
hmm but if
the shape doesn't display then I don't know if it's because my
theory about how it works inside is wrong or I forgot some hidden
aspect of mged which is possibly not mentioned in the
manual... |
| 15:20.06 |
Z80-Boy |
A method of
trial and error is not acceptable |
| 15:20.15 |
Z80-Boy |
It should be
documented |
| 15:20.39 |
brlcad |
are we really
going to have this same discussion again? |
| 15:20.41 |
brlcad |
of course it
should |
| 15:20.45 |
brlcad |
are you going
to document it? |
| 15:20.45 |
Z80-Boy |
also those
things like "what it really does depends on mged's internal states"
-> great. How do I know now how? |
| 15:21.01 |
Z80-Boy |
If I get
really pissed, maybe even yes :) |
| 15:21.18 |
brlcad |
technically
it's not even that it's inward or outward |
| 15:21.24 |
brlcad |
because it's
plane coefficients |
| 15:21.41 |
brlcad |
you never
define a point and a vector, you just define the vector |
| 15:21.47 |
Z80-Boy |
it's some
kind of equation like ax+bx+cz<=/=>/</>d |
| 15:21.47 |
brlcad |
ergo, it has
to be from the origin |
| 15:22.20 |
brlcad |
where
everything is an outward direction effectively |
| 15:22.43 |
Z80-Boy |
I guess
somehow in the U. S. Army learned it 30 years ago from the source
code and now it doesn't have to be documented until he
dies |
| 15:23.09 |
Z80-Boy |
and someone
else has to take over his chair and start typing the numbers
instead of him, am I right? ;-) |
| 15:23.23 |
brlcad |
he/his?
who? |
| 15:23.45 |
Z80-Boy |
What is
actually the official documentation of brl-cad? |
| 15:24.19 |
brlcad |
the pdf's on
the website, the manual pages, and everthing in doc |
| 15:24.37 |
Z80-Boy |
Like a lot of
mysteries around BRL-CAD |
| 15:24.55 |
Z80-Boy |
For example -
there are Volumes II, III, IV - is there also a mysterious Volume
I? If yes, what's inside? |
| 15:25.05 |
brlcad |
a lot of
"expert-friendly" knowledge that you learn the more you use
it |
| 15:25.17 |
brlcad |
and a lot of
work needed on making it more user-friendly and easy to use of
course |
| 15:25.22 |
Z80-Boy |
the problem
is I use BRL-CAD only ocassionally on Ronja |
| 15:25.49 |
Z80-Boy |
sometimes I
go soldering, sometimes I go welding, sometimes debug electronics,
sometimes I need to add a new 3d model or modify existing
one |
| 15:25.57 |
Z80-Boy |
For that I
need a usable reference guide |
| 15:26.04 |
brlcad |
dude, I
completely agree |
| 15:26.11 |
brlcad |
the issue is
just a matter of time and priorities |
| 15:26.18 |
Z80-Boy |
And not
information where the crucial detail is always missing |
| 15:26.32 |
brlcad |
i could be
working on docs, and that would help for a short while .. but then
there are bigger problems that would go unaddressed |
| 15:26.39 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it
possible to change the source of Volume II and add notes about what
it really does at the latest detail level? |
| 15:26.49 |
brlcad |
other
problems that *only* I can take care of at the moment |
| 15:27.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/qray.c: change (char)NULL to
CNULL ( (char)0x0 ) to quiet the warnings about casting to
different size |
| 15:27.05 |
brlcad |
it is
possible, that's part of the docbook work we were talking about
earlier |
| 15:27.06 |
Z80-Boy |
I always
remember that arbn does a n-plane demarked body but never remember
if the inequality is this or that way |
| 15:27.20 |
Z80-Boy |
if a rotation
goes counter or clockwise and that's exactly what's missing in
these references |
| 15:27.25 |
brlcad |
vol I is on
the website, it's just exceptionally brief |
| 15:27.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Where is Vol
I ? I can't find it |
| 15:27.55 |
brlcad |
frankly, I
didn't remember what the inputs to an arbn were either, I just made
one and found out |
| 15:27.58 |
brlcad |
it's the
first link |
| 15:28.03 |
brlcad |
under
docs |
| 15:28.27 |
Z80-Boy |
Overview of
BRL-CAD? |
| 15:28.30 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 15:28.51 |
Z80-Boy |
But there's
no indication it's Volume I! |
| 15:29.23 |
brlcad |
the docs
predate the open sourcing and the new build system, so vol I
actually included all the details about the license agreement, the
old build system installation instructions per platform, and other
details that are simply no longer relevant |
| 15:29.53 |
brlcad |
uhm, who
cares if it doesn't say it's vol I ... wtf does that
matter? |
| 15:30.14 |
Z80-Boy |
Now you saw
it |
| 15:30.17 |
brlcad |
that's really
getting critical on something that really doesn't
matter |
| 15:30.21 |
``Erik |
it has a '1'
by it, does that count? |
| 15:30.43 |
``Erik |
just like
volume 2 has a '2' by it... |
| 15:30.43 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:30.46 |
brlcad |
there are
plenty of real things to complain about, a label on that doc isn't
one of them |
| 15:30.50 |
Z80-Boy |
Then the
doxygen documentation would be volume 7 |
| 15:31.01 |
Z80-Boy |
And ARL
technical reports volume 8 |
| 15:31.09 |
``Erik |
ok? |
| 15:31.16 |
brlcad |
does it
matter? |
| 15:31.19 |
brlcad |
seriously? |
| 15:31.24 |
Z80-Boy |
I didn't
complain I just asked where is the volume I |
| 15:31.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Becuase I
thought the information that's missing in Vol II is maybe
there |
| 15:32.29 |
Z80-Boy |
What is
supposed to contain the most detailed reference on arbn? Volume
II? |
| 15:32.33 |
brlcad |
you asked, I
answered :) |
| 15:33.13 |
brlcad |
it's just not
even worth the edit, or this discussion to futz with it since the
effort that is needed is the conversion to docbook |
| 15:34.26 |
Z80-Boy |
What needs to
be converted to docbook? Only the Volume-* PDF's? Or also the
manual pages? Online helps? doxygen doc? |
| 15:34.59 |
brlcad |
the vol pdfs
for starters, ideally everything and just have the various formats
auto-generated |
| 15:37.25 |
Z80-Boy |
OMG is it
rasterized at billion DPI? |
| 15:37.27 |
brlcad |
the "volume"
formats aren't necessarily going to be preserved .. some info is
verbose/redundant, some info is outright missing |
| 15:37.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:38.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Printing into
ps and running through ps2pdf didn't help... |
| 15:42.47 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Reference_Card_front.png
http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Reference_Card_back.png |
| 15:48.31 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 15:48.34 |
Z80-Boy |
but I have
one at home |
| 15:49.23 |
Z80-Boy |
2 pages PNG,
700kB each, that's not very practical |
| 15:50.30 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: fix sign
difference |
| 15:50.34 |
Z80-Boy |
I made this:
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/refcard.png |
| 15:51.42 |
``Erik |
hah, doh,
didn't even know z80-boy was karel :D |
| 15:52.45 |
Z80-Boy |
L0CALZ
0NLY |
| 15:54.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Now I can
open it in Links on one desktop and just grab the screen with mouse
and move it around :) |
| 15:55.01 |
Maloeran |
Ahah
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6998619.stm |
| 15:56.11 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:00.18 |
Z80-Boy |
I put it
together cut out the white strip in the middle, around the image,
scaled as much down as it would be still legible and converted to
16 colors without dithering (to not get jagged text) to not make
the PNG load long |
| 16:51.58 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: re-organize
and clean up (fixing compiler warnings) |
| 16:52.28 |
minute |
brlcad: How
is LDAP going? |
| 16:52.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/count.c: explicitely set
id's type as int |
| 17:27.01 |
``Erik |
heh, I hasn't
thought about that before... 'e' is for draw and 'd' is for
erase |
| 17:27.01 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: ;) --
what does 'e' stand for? 'd' could easily be 'delete', but
'e'? |
| 17:32.09 |
brlcad |
woot, finally
got rounded corner working |
| 17:33.37 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
uploaded your image, thanks |
| 17:34.00 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
you're welcome |
| 17:34.28 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.png |
| 17:34.47 |
brlcad |
I'll link it
on the new site as data is migrated |
| 17:35.22 |
Z80-Boy |
cool |
| 17:35.48 |
Z80-Boy |
the card
looks quite helpful actually I didn't use it because it was so slow
to turn the pages |
| 17:36.15 |
Z80-Boy |
(xpdf
viewer) |
| 17:37.05 |
Z80-Boy |
is it allowed
to use the BRL-CAD logo in a free licensed movie end
titles? |
| 17:37.41 |
Z80-Boy |
something
like 3D modelling software (BRL-CAD logo) U. S. Army Aberdeen
Proving Ground or however it is? |
| 17:38.36 |
Z80-Boy |
cause it
looks quite cool |
| 17:39.40 |
brlcad |
welcome to
use any of these: http://brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 17:41.27 |
``Erik |
bob: I dunno,
"edit"? *shrug* |
| 17:42.26 |
Z80-Boy |
They have
"Army Research Laboratory" replaced with Open Source |
| 17:42.37 |
Z80-Boy |
I like more
the ARL ones it makes an impression that a serious shit is going
on |
| 17:43.24 |
brlcad |
and that same
reason that it gives that impression makes it a bit harder to
redistribute/use :) |
| 17:43.51 |
Z80-Boy |
cause of the
ARL trademark or whatever? |
| 17:43.55 |
Z80-Boy |
So I should
use the Open Source one? |
| 17:44.03 |
brlcad |
probably |
| 17:44.37 |
Z80-Boy |
but I can put
ARL into the credits, right? |
| 17:44.59 |
brlcad |
you're making
it, you can credit whomever you like |
| 17:46.22 |
brlcad |
the
intention, however, is to move more and more towards a more
familiar "global" open source project with developers and
participants all over the world involved |
| 17:46.33 |
Z80-Boy |
OK |
| 17:46.49 |
brlcad |
ARL is still
a major participant and funder of some of the developers, but in
the end they're just a participant like everyone else |
| 17:47.00 |
Z80-Boy |
cause then I
would have to start writing ARL et al.? |
| 17:47.19 |
Z80-Boy |
are there any
non-ARL developers? |
| 17:47.26 |
brlcad |
sure,
plenty |
| 17:47.34 |
brlcad |
how active
they are varies heavily from time to time |
| 17:47.49 |
Z80-Boy |
does this
opening mean that ARL is loding interest in the project and it's
having some better software instead? |
| 17:47.54 |
brlcad |
and the ones
paid certainly are the most active, but that won't necessarily
always be true |
| 17:48.06 |
brlcad |
not in the
least |
| 17:48.09 |
Z80-Boy |
loding ->
losing |
| 17:48.18 |
brlcad |
the point is
to encourage others to participate and get involved |
| 17:48.36 |
brlcad |
instead of
just having people sitting on the other side of a fence waiting for
stuff to get thrown over |
| 17:48.52 |
Z80-Boy |
I just don't
understand armies are usually secretive and now they open a 3D
modeling tool with 30 years of devel |
| 17:49.11 |
``Erik |
hum, lots of
stuff has been released through the years |
| 17:49.40 |
``Erik |
'ping', the
improvements to the bsd4.2 network stack that found its way into
winderz and pretty much every other current ipv4 capable
os... |
| 17:49.51 |
Z80-Boy |
from
ARL? |
| 17:49.54 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 17:49.57 |
Z80-Boy |
lol
:) |
| 17:50.24 |
``Erik |
from the same
team, even... the guy who architected and did most of BRL-CAD is
the one who did ping and the stack stuff |
| 17:50.49 |
Z80-Boy |
and now is
dead because of a car crash? |
| 17:50.52 |
``Erik |
plus loads of
publically available documents come outta here |
| 17:50.54 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 17:51.05 |
Z80-Boy |
was it his
mistake or the other's one? |
| 17:51.12 |
``Erik |
<-- wasn't
there |
| 17:51.45 |
Maloeran |
<-- wasn't
born |
| 17:51.49 |
Z80-Boy |
I take it as
an indication that road travel is dangerous |
| 17:51.51 |
``Erik |
um |
| 17:51.54 |
``Erik |
in
2000? |
| 17:52.00 |
Maloeran |
Oh, the guy
died in 2000? |
| 17:52.02 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 17:52.11 |
Maloeran |
I thought it
was a very old story, from the beginning of ping and
brlcad |
| 17:52.27 |
``Erik |
ping was '83,
BRL-CAD kinda sorta started in '79 |
| 19:10.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: |
| 19:10.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Fixed a bug with funky matrix manipulation. Fixed a bug with the
old object |
| 19:10.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
being written with the new matrix applied. |
| 19:14.43 |
minute |
brlcad: How
is progress on LDAP? |
| 19:18.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: rotation on v5
primivites |
| 19:28.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:28.35 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: now
my mged works, thanks |
| 19:37.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: search the tcl
environment for an editor variable |
| 19:38.43 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: editor tcl variable |
| 19:39.35 |
``Erik |
the comb
cloning stuff seems fundamentally wrong to me O.o |
| 19:40.54 |
Z80-Boy |
It even seems
to calculate with rt, another sign that the CVS works on my OpenBSD
machine |
| 19:41.08 |
Z80-Boy |
Didn't have
any problem did just the autogensh ./configure make make
install |
| 19:42.01 |
``Erik |
<-- did a
fistful of fixes a bit back for obsd41 in a vm |
| 19:42.15 |
``Erik |
didja up to
41, or are you still on 40? |
| 19:44.25 |
Z80-Boy |
yes I'm still
4.0 |
| 19:44.31 |
``Erik |
hum,
nifty |
| 19:46.10 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:05.17 |
Z80-Boy |
that's good
that it works even on the older version |
| 20:05.28 |
Z80-Boy |
it's actually
not so old. |
| 20:06.55 |
``Erik |
it worked
fine on 38 *shrug* |
| 20:07.46 |
Z80-Boy |
hehe |
| 20:55.35 |
brlcad |
minute: I've
been working on the website style all day today, tweaking style
some more |
| 20:56.33 |
brlcad |
fixed the
block page, modified the headers, changed the menu style and
titles, and a few other details throughout |
| 21:01.24 |
minute |
brlcad:
cool |
| 21:03.34 |
brlcad |
i'm not sure
how to apply the theme to the wiki? |
| 21:03.55 |
brlcad |
i modified
the block template to get the rounded corners |
| 21:04.12 |
brlcad |
I'd presume
the same can be applied to the wiki, but can you point me at the
template files? |
| 21:04.17 |
minute |
brlcad: They
automatically apply to the wiki I think. |
| 21:04.24 |
minute |
it is a
symlinked template |
| 21:04.42 |
minute |
try purging
the parser cache via adding ?action=purge to the url |
| 21:07.14 |
brlcad |
still not
there |
| 21:07.37 |
brlcad |
do you see it
on, http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation |
| 21:07.56 |
brlcad |
it's picked
up the other css changes |
| 21:08.00 |
brlcad |
but not the
template change |
| 21:10.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: Display all newly
generated objects, not just the first. Autoview after
display. |
| 21:10.55 |
minute |
hmm |
| 21:10.56 |
brlcad |
block.tpl.php
is the tempalte page |
| 21:11.08 |
minute |
yeah |
| 21:11.13 |
minute |
that is
included in the mediawiki thing |
| 21:11.19 |
brlcad |
hrmp |
| 21:12.35 |
Z80-Boy |
sounds like
brlcad is going to use mediawiki? |
| 21:14.20 |
brlcad |
minute: it's
not in the source, it's using the block class, but not the
template |
| 21:14.32 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
yes |
| 21:14.45 |
brlcad |
it's in their
docs, iirc |
| 21:14.47 |
minute |
the mediawiki
sidebar is missing some elemts of the blocks in drupal |
| 21:15.29 |
minute |
wow the iPod
nano is nice |
| 21:16.19 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I had
mediawiki on Ronja shortly and it got filled with viagra-cialis
link spam |
| 21:16.29 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
heh |
| 21:16.38 |
Z80-Boy |
I hope
brl-cad will have it condfigured in a way that this is not
possible |
| 21:16.42 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:16.49 |
brlcad |
already
is |
| 21:17.00 |
minute |
fixing as we
speak |
| 21:17.11 |
Z80-Boy |
good |
| 21:17.12 |
brlcad |
following
some stuff that we use on bzflag's mediawiki install |
| 21:17.27 |
brlcad |
which has
been spam-free for a long time now (with massive
exposure) |
| 21:17.49 |
Z80-Boy |
I abandoned
the wiki after the incident since it would take so much work to
clean all the pages - and people tended to submit incorrect
information that was causing trouble to other people |
| 21:18.08 |
minute |
install
captcha and poof spam gone |
| 21:18.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Like a
population plan where a couple of parts had the wrong value ->
very nasty |
| 21:18.23 |
brlcad |
has to be a
good captcha, though |
| 21:18.44 |
Z80-Boy |
captcha can
be outsourced to horny people who fill it in and get a porn video
for it |
| 21:18.47 |
brlcad |
we went
through two other captchas that were pretty useless .. still got
loads of hits |
| 21:18.59 |
brlcad |
especially
since we wanted to retain the ability allow anonymous
edits |
| 21:19.20 |
brlcad |
recaptcha's
pretty darn good though |
| 21:22.37 |
minute |
brlcad: xbox
XD |
| 21:23.05 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:23.24 |
brlcad |
i can't claim
that, though, took example from another site |
| 21:23.33 |
minute |
heh, I
understand |
| 21:23.37 |
minute |
corners are
dificult |
| 21:23.45 |
``Erik |
heh, is there
a captcha that makes ya answer stupid questions? like it shows a
munged up "2+2" and you have to type "4" ? :) |
| 21:24.55 |
brlcad |
that was
another thing we added to bz's form -- first we tried just "type
the name of this game here" .. and if it had 'bz' anywhere in the
answer, it let them past |
| 21:25.12 |
brlcad |
surprisingly
still got too much spam (few times a week) |
| 21:25.37 |
brlcad |
same when we
added a simple equation in the php that you had to answer to
register |
| 21:26.00 |
brlcad |
definitely
decreased the spam massively, but still too much for our
hit-rate |
| 21:26.23 |
``Erik |
hm, if it's
just on register, or it's always the same, it'd be trivial for a
spammer to circumvent |
| 21:30.32 |
brlcad |
nah, it was
random |
| 21:31.21 |
Z80-Boy |
Hehe
reCaptcha interesting concept using captcha to digitize
books |
| 21:31.55 |
Z80-Boy |
someone could
make fake wikis which spammers would try to break through so they
would distribute the recaptchas to porn sites, people would solve
them and the wiki would discard the info after 5 minutes or
so |
| 21:32.10 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:32.18 |
Z80-Boy |
Interesting
how it pushes AI forward |
| 21:32.34 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
pretty cool |
| 21:32.44 |
brlcad |
even if it
gets fully cracked, it'll help :) |
| 21:33.28 |
minute |
brlcad:
fixed |
| 21:33.37 |
starseeker |
Z80-Boy: Ah,
yes :-) I saw that digitizing books from captcha idea - I like
it |
| 21:34.41 |
brlcad |
awesome! |
| 21:34.45 |
brlcad |
how'd you do
it? |
| 21:34.59 |
minute |
I had to add
the corners to the sidebar divs in mediawiki |
| 21:35.10 |
brlcad |
where are
those files? |
| 21:35.16 |
brlcad |
(in case I
need to tweak) |
| 21:35.17 |
minute |
page.tpl.php |
| 21:35.23 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I'm
not quite sure how to proceed here. If neither precise formatting
nor precise content duplication is needed, I can probably have
something reasonable looking for Vol1 (as a test case) pretty
quickly. That would have a very "default" LaTeX look though.
Would it be worth a test case? |
| 21:35.24 |
brlcad |
really,
hrmph |
| 21:35.42 |
minute |
brlcad: there
is an if statementn if it is drupal then drupal deals with it,
otherwise we deal with it. |
| 21:35.56 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
it really depends.. i'm also not sure I'd focus on vol I
regardless |
| 21:36.08 |
starseeker |
brlcad: it's
short ;-) |
| 21:36.22 |
brlcad |
it's also 90%
there in html form :) |
| 21:36.31 |
starseeker |
before I wade
into the big ones, I'd like to have a rough idea of what's needed
for formatting |
| 21:36.43 |
brlcad |
well, what
approach are you thinking of taking? |
| 21:36.59 |
brlcad |
vol III and
IV are short(er) |
| 21:37.03 |
starseeker |
wv output a
pretty good txt representation, and the docbook converstion
extracted the images |
| 21:37.14 |
brlcad |
so then it's
just docbook cleanup? |
| 21:37.29 |
starseeker |
Well, that's
one option. I prefer LaTeX personally |
| 21:37.29 |
Z80-Boy |
Can they also
make AS - Artificial Stupidity? |
| 21:37.30 |
brlcad |
because messy
docbook is better than no docbook for a starter :) |
| 21:37.59 |
starseeker |
I have a fair
bit of familiarity with LaTeX, and can probably get something basic
put together pretty quickly |
| 21:38.09 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
latex is great stuff, but just about every major doc project has
migrated or is in the progress of migrating to docbook |
| 21:38.24 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Ah. |
| 21:38.49 |
brlcad |
latex doesn't
fully decouple the presentation either, so it's harder to apply it
to "non-traditional" output formats |
| 21:39.06 |
brlcad |
they're
generally a bear to set up, but once set up, they just
work |
| 21:39.24 |
brlcad |
most of the
work is in the stylesheet, like web work |
| 21:39.33 |
starseeker |
If we go that
route, I'd recommend adding the full toolchain to the src/other
directory :-/ |
| 21:39.38 |
brlcad |
minute: how
does it look to you? |
| 21:40.15 |
brlcad |
picking /
evaluating the toolchain is part of the work :) |
| 21:40.15 |
minute |
in IE it has
crappy antialiasing and the bottom set of corners are broken.
otherwise good |
| 21:40.30 |
starseeker |
brlcad: OK,
I'll work on docbook. Do you have any good examples that would
make good "guides"? |
| 21:41.07 |
brlcad |
some
platforms make the tools really easy, because they do everything in
the package management system |
| 21:41.27 |
brlcad |
I know there
are RH rpms for docbook-tools, there's probably something similar
in ports |
| 21:41.54 |
brlcad |
the docbook
manual is out of date with respect to the tools now |
| 21:42.23 |
starseeker |
Right, but
I'll need to familiarize myself with the markup |
| 21:42.57 |
brlcad |
it always has
been |
| 21:43.19 |
brlcad |
and likely
will be for a long time to come -- it's still one of the best at
dealing with equations |
| 21:43.47 |
brlcad |
might be
useful to familiarize and model after what the guys are doing for
the linuxdoc project |
| 21:44.24 |
brlcad |
http://tldp.org/ |
| 21:45.49 |
brlcad |
nifty,
http://tldp.org/LDP/LDP-Author-Guide/html/x2docbook.html |
| 21:46.42 |
brlcad |
that's for
the import side, the bigger problem is docbook ->
output |
| 21:47.46 |
starseeker |
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/xml-matters3.html |
| 21:47.55 |
starseeker |
True, but I
need something to try to convert first ;-) |
| 21:48.01 |
brlcad |
ah, cool --
looks like they use jade |
| 21:48.15 |
brlcad |
at least,
they have tools that they've wrapped over jade in their
docbook-utils package |
| 21:48.39 |
brlcad |
based off of
redhat's docbook-tools package |
| 21:51.33 |
brlcad |
found it in
ports, installing |
| 21:51.45 |
brlcad |
you have an
account on the server? |
| 21:52.33 |
starseeker |
me? not to
my knowledge |
| 21:57.22 |
minute |
goodnight |
| 22:01.16 |
starseeker |
night |
| 22:01.23 |
starseeker |
ah-ha - found
it. |
| 22:01.28 |
starseeker |
Hrm. Docbook
3.1 |
| 22:01.34 |
starseeker |
oh, well -
enough for a start |
| 22:02.17 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
think I've gotten the toolchain installed on my Gentoo box, at
least most of it - there doesn't seem to be a convenient
"docbook-tools" meta-ebuild unless I'm missing
something |
| 22:03.06 |
brlcad |
there
probably is :) |
| 22:03.13 |
brlcad |
maybe
docbook-utils |
| 22:03.34 |
starseeker |
nope. |
| 22:03.54 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 22:04.22 |
starseeker |
docbook-sgml-utils... but we want
XML |
| 22:05.24 |
brlcad |
that probably
works |
| 22:06.08 |
brlcad |
xml is a
subset of sgml, you just provide an xml descriptor instead of
docbook, and apply the stylesheet as needed |
| 22:06.46 |
starseeker |
OK |
| 22:06.50 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 22:06.51 |
brlcad |
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/DocBook-OpenJade-SGML-XML-HOWTO.html#AEN482 |
| 22:07.04 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 22:09.31 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I'll
take some time and go over Docbook - I've got some terminology to
adsorb. |
| 22:19.21 |
brlcad |
minute:
hrmph, broken you say .. that's no good .. and goodnight! thanks
for fixing the wiki template |
| 22:19.35 |
brlcad |
i'll try not
to break it again too much :) |
| 22:26.01 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 22:26.22 |
Z80-Boy |
Hmm the
research in AI may lead to |
| 22:26.26 |
``Erik |
<-- digs
latex a lot, but would probably go back to sucking fbsd's project
wang and imitate their doc sgml setup O:-) |
| 22:26.38 |
Z80-Boy |
instead of
building something intelligent we realize we all are
stupid |
| 22:28.50 |
Z80-Boy |
"task
difficult for computers are easy for humans and vice versa. For
example motoric skills are easy for humans" -> didn't feel like
that when I was trying to learn to surf |
| 22:29.10 |
Z80-Boy |
reCaptcha is
a good thought though |
| 22:29.30 |
brlcad |
more
importantly, it's actually effective (so far) |
| 22:30.12 |
Z80-Boy |
Actually do
you know that burrows-wheeler algorithm for
compression? |
| 22:31.53 |
Z80-Boy |
maybe
concepts - like a table - are not like numbers in out minds, but
like pointers. |
| 22:32.06 |
Z80-Boy |
A table would
be like a place in our experience. |
| 22:32.16 |
Z80-Boy |
Or more
exactly a set of closely related places |
| 22:32.38 |
Z80-Boy |
Set of all
moments in our life when a table played some role |
| 22:33.31 |
Z80-Boy |
burrows
wheeler can associate between positions in a text without actually
knowing into what units it should break the text first to figure
out what to match with what |
| 22:34.05 |
Z80-Boy |
it's a damn
simple algoritm - a qsort called on a pointer array where strcmp()
is the compare function. |
| 23:48.18 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 23:48.25 |
qazwsx |
I'm working
on a procedural modeling project on LInux, so I'm looking for
something that allows me to script in extrusions + boolearn
operatons on solid objects / water tight meshes. Blender is not
very stable for this ... anyone know how brlcad is for these
operations? |
| 23:48.58 |
brlcad |
heh, it's
kinda built for that sort of thing |
| 23:49.25 |
qazwsx |
really? |
| 23:49.27 |
brlcad |
there's a C
api for doing this, with loads of examples in the src/proc-db
directory of the source distribution |
| 23:49.34 |
qazwsx |
victory is
mine |
| 23:49.36 |
qazwsx |
muhahahahaha |
| 23:49.54 |
brlcad |
there's also
a fully-scriptable mged interface that you can script for in Tcl or
build up commands from another scripting language |
| 23:50.01 |
qazwsx |
so this
supports things like "here's a 2D curve, make it into a 2D
surface", here's a 2D surface, make it into a 3D solid |
| 23:50.12 |
qazwsx |
and "here are
two water tight meshes, give me the intersection / union /
difference of them/ |
| 23:50.27 |
qazwsx |
? |
| 23:50.28 |
brlcad |
you could
work that way, but brl-cad prefers to work predominantly with 3D
shapes |
| 23:50.36 |
qazwsx |
how do I
generate 3D shapes? |
| 23:50.46 |
qazwsx |
(I'm just
starting to compile brlcad right now, in ./configure) |
| 23:50.49 |
brlcad |
we have a
sketch primitive that you can use for curves and extrusions, but
the primitives are better |
| 23:50.56 |
qazwsx |
cool |
| 23:51.07 |
brlcad |
well, do you
care about the C api more or the scripting interface? |
| 23:51.12 |
qazwsx |
since this
project is old, I'm guessing a crappy modern day laptop will be
fine for it? |
| 23:51.15 |
brlcad |
they're
completely different from each other |
| 23:51.19 |
qazwsx |
I'm familiar
from C to scheme, hmmm |
| 23:51.26 |
qazwsx |
I really care
about procedural modeling |
| 23:51.37 |
qazwsx |
um, what does
the C interface give me? |
| 23:51.42 |
brlcad |
you can do
procedural modeling with either |
| 23:51.50 |
qazwsx |
(over the
scripting langauge) |
| 23:51.52 |
brlcad |
it gives you
speed, and you can hook into libraries |
| 23:52.06 |
brlcad |
like if you
wanted to tie to simulation codes or something else |
| 23:52.19 |
qazwsx |
ah, no
simuation, just generation |
| 23:52.27 |
qazwsx |
woot, "make"
now :-) |
| 23:52.39 |
brlcad |
another
example might be using some l-grammar tree library |
| 23:52.57 |
qazwsx |
I guess the
useful documenation will be "3: Principles of Effective Modeling"
and "5: Developing Applications" |
| 23:53.00 |
qazwsx |
as in
l-systems? |
| 23:53.02 |
brlcad |
or NN's or
GA's or whatever.. if you need to hook to a library or need
performance, that's the way to go |
| 23:53.06 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 23:53.13 |
qazwsx |
what's NN?
neural network? GA? genetic algorithm? |
| 23:53.16 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 23:53.26 |
qazwsx |
dumb
question: why would I use either NN or GA in modeling? |
| 23:53.58 |
brlcad |
oh, I could
think of a few interesting projects :) |
| 23:54.33 |
qazwsx |
I can't think
of a single reason to use them, so now I'm curious |
| 23:54.37 |
brlcad |
particularly
a GA simulation driving geometry generation, or propagating agent
behavior via geometry |
| 23:54.58 |
brlcad |
shape
recognition, bin packing problems, knapsack problems |
| 23:55.17 |
brlcad |
lots of
possibilities |
| 23:55.27 |
brlcad |
anyways,
pretty aside from the point if that's not what you need
:) |
| 23:58.47 |
brlcad |
so there's
lots of scripting possibilities, you can script directly in mged
(which is a full tcl shell) or outside mged and generate geometry
transcripts |
| 23:58.52 |
``Erik |
c/scheme?
which impl? |
| 23:58.54 |
``Erik |
<-- scheme
geek |
| 23:59.32 |
qazwsx |
brl cad
supports scheme? |
| 23:59.46 |
``Erik |
no :(
sadly |
| 23:59.53 |
brlcad |
here's one
example that I recently whipped up in shell script that generates
the SGI logo: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/sgi.sh |
| 00:00.24 |
brlcad |
not directly,
only tcl "directly" -- but you can still produce mged transcripts
in anything |
| 00:00.53 |
qazwsx |
how easy is
it to embed an interactive langauge into brl-cad, say like
lua |
| 00:01.04 |
brlcad |
to use that
script, ./sgi.sh | mged -c sgi.g |
| 00:01.13 |
qazwsx |
i.e. I want
to embed a language in brlcad, so I can control brlcad through this
langauge? or is this what the tcl interface provides
already? |
| 00:01.17 |
``Erik |
there're a
lot of C functions to cope with |
| 00:01.25 |
``Erik |
and a lot of
the core math stuff is cpp macro |
| 00:01.29 |
``Erik |
so, uh, not
trivial :( |
| 00:01.31 |
brlcad |
qazwsx:
that's pretty much what the tcl interface provides |
| 00:03.19 |
brlcad |
you could
hook in lua into the C-side of mged without too much trouble, but
you would be making a crapload of hooks to expose *all* the
possible commands in lua .. to do just a small subset wouldn't be
too much trouble though |
| 00:03.32 |
qazwsx |
gotcha |
| 00:03.49 |
qazwsx |
what's the
quickest way to pick up tcl? I'm familiar with asm, c, ruby,
python, scheme, ... looking for like the K&R / SICP equiv of
tcl |
| 00:03.50 |
brlcad |
qazwsx:
there's also some more scripting examples (both tcl and shell) in
the regress/ dir |
| 00:05.21 |
brlcad |
tcl is pretty
straight-forward, it's a relatively simple command language
(intentionally simple) where pretty much *everything* is a command
(even comments), and it's brace-happy to induce line
continuation |
| 00:05.31 |
yukonbob |
wiki.tcl.tk,
"Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk" |
| 00:05.52 |
qazwsx |
that book is
$60.00 so I guess I'll use the wiki :-) |
| 00:06.05 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
a decent book, there's also http://wiki.tcl.tk/1304 |
| 00:06.18 |
yukonbob |
book is a
good one if you intend to use tcl at all, though... |
| 00:06.29 |
brlcad |
http://www.beedub.com/book/ |
| 00:07.10 |
brlcad |
oreilly has a
pocket reference too that is good |
| 00:07.16 |
yukonbob |
*where "use"
== using semi-seriously. |
| 00:07.28 |
brlcad |
but then if
you have the manpages installed, you have the book |
| 00:07.42 |
yukonbob |
otherwise,
it's easy to get into, with a few tcl-isms -- so one could just
hack at it and see results.... |
| 00:07.52 |
qazwsx |
lol, apt-get
is much faster than amazon's shipping |
| 00:13.03 |
qazwsx |
wow, brlcad
took 20+ mins to compile |
| 00:14.31 |
brlcad |
now I'm
annoyed if it takes more than 5 minutes :) |
| 00:15.38 |
qazwsx |
hmm, googling
got me 0 results on this: ./tclsh: error while loading shared
libraries: libOIS-1.0.0.so: cannot open shared object file: No such
file or directory |
| 00:15.51 |
qazwsx |
nor does
apt-cache search OIS |grep ois show anything interesting; any one
now what's wrong? |
| 00:15.54 |
qazwsx |
(this is from
make install) |
| 00:16.33 |
qazwsx |
oh wait, I
think I got it |
| 00:17.20 |
brlcad |
sounds like
you've got a broken tcl installed that it's trying to
run? |
| 00:18.00 |
qazwsx |
no, OIS is
some crap left over from OGRE that I hard coded into ~/.bashrc that
I have no since removed |
| 00:18.16 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 00:18.22 |
qazwsx |
dinner;
later; thanks for everyone's help :-) |
| 00:41.53 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 01:04.09 |
qazwsx |
so I just
installed brlcad ... which one of the 477 apps in /usr/brlcad/bin
should I run to get started? :-) |
| 01:04.50 |
louipc |
mged is
fun |
| 01:05.49 |
poolio_ |
beset!
although it's not installed. |
| 01:06.00 |
qazwsx |
louipc: cool;
thanks |
| 01:06.03 |
qazwsx |
poolio_: what
is beset! ? |
| 01:06.50 |
poolio_ |
broken
:) |
| 01:08.23 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 01:20.35 |
qazwsx |
is there an
email list for brlcad too, or is it just this irc
channel? |
| 01:20.50 |
louipc |
yeah there
are some mailing lists |
| 01:21.14 |
louipc |
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292 |
| 01:24.59 |
qazwsx |
hmm, archives
not nearly as filled as I thought it'd be |
| 01:25.10 |
louipc |
yeah it's
pretty low traffic |
| 01:32.19 |
starseeker |
OK, I think
I'm beginning to see a little. Being able to write docbook is
simply a question of being aware of and using the appropriate
environments for any given section of text |
| 01:32.32 |
starseeker |
the main
difference with html is there are a LOT of pre-defined
environments |
| 01:33.07 |
starseeker |
http://personal.riverusers.com/~thegrendel/abs-guide-5.0.tar.bz2
seems to be an example |
| 01:33.24 |
starseeker |
or more
specifically, abs-book.sgml within that archive |
| 01:34.39 |
starseeker |
That is a
VERY complete de-coupling between content and
presentation. |
| 01:35.48 |
starseeker |
And
consequently, there is a lot of trust in the tool chain to make the
correct typesetting decisions. |
| 01:36.45 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
take it most documentation for BRL-CAD isn't going to need any sort
of sophisticated equation typesetting? |
| 01:38.47 |
starseeker |
I see now why
you want to use this - it's probably the single best way I've seen
to ensure complete uniformity of appearance. |
| 01:39.03 |
starseeker |
(given
identical tool chains that is) |
| 01:57.11 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 01:59.38 |
``Erik |
det |
| 01:59.39 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
yeah, no typesetting |
| 01:59.46 |
brlcad |
for
equations |
| 01:59.51 |
brlcad |
at least not
anytime soon |
| 02:03.03 |
qazwsx |
okay, brlcad
is awesome; mged is awesome too [eom] :-) |
| 02:03.16 |
starseeker |
OK. I'll go
over the environments defined by docbook and make a stab at Volume
II |
| 02:03.28 |
qazwsx |
the whole
command interface, and no-save, everything is immmediate
interaction is awesome |
| 02:03.34 |
Maloeran |
I think it's
the first time that I see such a great first impression for
mged |
| 02:03.45 |
louipc |
hahah
D: |
| 02:03.54 |
qazwsx |
on top of
that, the fact that mged has a vi emulation mode clearly states
that the people behind it know what they're doing |
| 02:05.22 |
Maloeran |
So qazwsx,
you are a programmer right? :) I don't think a typical engineer (
or worse, an artist ) could be able to appreciate mged so
quickly |
| 02:06.02 |
qazwsx |
yeah, I'm a
programmer :-) |
| 02:06.12 |
qazwsx |
working
through the mged tutorial right now |
| 02:06.22 |
qazwsx |
It's
amazingly well designed for something started 20 years
ago? |
| 02:06.34 |
qazwsx |
for the
longest time, I didn't touch the project since I was like it was
started 20 years ago, it must be a pos |
| 02:06.39 |
louipc |
27-28? |
| 02:06.51 |
brlcad |
depends when
you start counting |
| 02:07.34 |
brlcad |
musing and
ideas started spinning around '79, first geometry editing was '83,
first "public" release was '84 |
| 02:07.52 |
Maloeran |
Well qazwsx,
the fact that it begun 27 years ago shouldn't imply that it has
remained inactive for the following 25 years |
| 02:08.12 |
louipc |
I think I
played with brlcad maybe 3 yrs ago. I couldn't use the back-space
key in mged I think haha |
| 02:08.14 |
brlcad |
pretty
constant development rate |
| 02:08.29 |
brlcad |
louipc: on
windows? |
| 02:08.33 |
qazwsx |
is this mged
prompt that I'm typing into running tcl? |
| 02:08.40 |
brlcad |
qazwsx:
yes |
| 02:08.42 |
qazwsx |
(i.e. all the
"make, in, draw, ls, erase" commands) |
| 02:09.38 |
brlcad |
there's a
whole slew of commands added to the tcl environment ("everything in
tcl is a command") that relate to geometry editing and other
actions |
| 02:09.53 |
brlcad |
the mged
quick reference on the main page categorizes most of the more
important ones |
| 02:10.27 |
louipc |
brlcad: I
think it was in linux |
| 02:10.45 |
louipc |
oh no it was
the delete key :D |
| 02:10.53 |
louipc |
http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20050706.html.gz |
| 02:12.07 |
brlcad |
qazwsx: if
you get to the point of writing tcl scripts in mged, you'll have to
be aware of the 'set glob_compat_mode' setting, if it's on (which
it is by default), then the command interpreter performs globbing
on geometry object names and you have to escape the globbing
characters that mean something different to tcl |
| 02:13.26 |
brlcad |
e.g. by
default you can do "ls *.r" and it'd display a listing of all
objects named with a .r suffix -- this is obviously not tcl
behavior; similarly with more complex globbing like obj_[0-9]*.s
etc .. yet [] mean something different to tcl |
| 02:13.53 |
brlcad |
so if you're
going to write a tcl script, you probably want to turn glob compat
mode off so you can do things like: set foo [tops] |
| 02:14.33 |
brlcad |
louipc: ah,
delete, yeah - i'd believe that. I think I fixed that shortly
after you reported it |
| 02:35.32 |
qazwsx |
so lesson 4
covers ray tracing ... this is me being picky; is there a way to
launch these via commands? (rather than file -> ray trace ->
raytrace ?) |
| 03:04.39 |
qazwsx |
how do I do
the equiv of edit -> setH from the commandline in
mged? |
| 03:04.42 |
qazwsx |
I'm looking
at set |
| 03:04.47 |
qazwsx |
err, "sed"
nad "p", but none of them appear to work |
| 03:14.02 |
brlcad |
"yes, 'rt
-F/dev/Xl'" whenever he gets back |
| 03:47.34 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 03:54.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: search the blt dir
for headers, needed for archer paths |
| 03:54.52 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: search the
archer paths for blt and the archer tclscripts |
| 03:56.03 |
brlcad |
qazwsx: yes,
run 'rt -F/dev/Xl' (man rt or brlman rt (set your MANPATH) for lots
of other ray-trace options) |
| 04:02.50 |
brlcad |
to do the
equiv of edit->Set H you can either run "press "Set H", or turn
on the Misc->Faceplate GUI, or run 'ted' to kick off a text
editor (be sure EDITOR env var is set) on the params |
| 04:03.40 |
brlcad |
if you've
just run 'in' or 'make' commands, you can 'kill objectname' then up
arrow and simply recreate |
| 04:04.26 |
brlcad |
the 'p'
command lets you set the various values for the various edit
options |
| 04:22.48 |
qazwsx |
wtf, I can
simulate clicking on menus? |
| 04:23.07 |
qazwsx |
and "rt" is
just calling the "rt" program on my shell? |
| 04:23.27 |
louipc |
cli
rules |
| 04:26.01 |
brlcad |
yep, rt,
rtedge, rtarea, ... etc there are various tracers for different
needs |
| 04:27.06 |
brlcad |
you can
ray-trace into the 3D graphics window using the cli, but it's a
little more involved as that integrated framebuffer can be/is
turned on/off on demand |
| 07:14.59 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:47.54 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:38.24 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: with
the newly installed brlcad 7.10.3 even the problem with "rt" not
drawing anything has disappeared! |
| 09:54.47 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 10:50.38 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-115-117.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-115-117.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:58.27 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
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*** join/#brlcad thing1
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*** join/#brlcad thing0
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| 11:47.37 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 12:44.06 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 13:29.39 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 14:24.07 |
*** join/#brlcad cad97
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| 14:52.44 |
``Erik |
src/mged/animedit.c:3059: Internal
compiler error in `gen_tagged_type_instantiation_die', at
dwarf2out.c:9308 |
| 14:53.42 |
*** join/#brlcad ALVAN
(n=jhkjhkj@89.34.187.225) |
| 14:53.48 |
ALVAN |
hi
all |
| 14:54.09 |
ALVAN |
someone knows
a good application like autocad but for linux ? |
| 14:55.24 |
Z80-Boy |
qcad |
| 14:56.21 |
ALVAN |
Z80-Boy, does
it supports now 3D ? |
| 14:56.33 |
ALVAN |
as i heard is
only works with 2D |
| 14:56.54 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 14:56.57 |
Z80-Boy |
only
2d |
| 14:57.48 |
ALVAN |
do you know
another :)? |
| 14:57.52 |
ALVAN |
that is 3D
? |
| 15:00.11 |
``Erik |
what are you
trying to do with it? |
| 15:00.22 |
``Erik |
autocad is a
drafting tool, so 2d is kinda, y'know.. .the point... |
| 15:00.46 |
``Erik |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
<-- shows the breadth of what people can mean when they say
"cad" |
| 15:02.03 |
ALVAN |
i want to
make graphs of houses, more like for mantions |
| 15:02.35 |
``Erik |
'graphs'? I
don't get what exactly you mean |
| 15:02.36 |
ALVAN |
are not for
normally houses ..are for high standard houses |
| 15:03.23 |
``Erik |
like rendered
pictures? |
| 15:04.18 |
ALVAN |
i better show
you one |
| 15:04.22 |
ALVAN |
a
sample |
| 15:04.37 |
``Erik |
a picture is
worth a thousand and twenty four words |
| 15:07.26 |
ALVAN |
Erik http://www.proiectare.net/2006/03/27/vila-tip-a/ |
| 15:07.59 |
ALVAN |
normally i
think 2D is good for me too i do only the last 2
pictures |
| 15:08.00 |
``Erik |
ah, then
autocad would be bad, something like povray or perhaps, say,
BRL-CAD would be well suited |
| 15:08.30 |
``Erik |
the
floor-plan images would be better done with something like
qcad |
| 15:08.37 |
ALVAN |
currently i
work with autocad |
| 15:08.40 |
``Erik |
or a 2d
drawing program like gimp |
| 15:08.49 |
Z80-Boy |
lol, 2D plans
with a gimp |
| 15:09.46 |
ALVAN |
ok thanks i
will try qcad as i receive many projects written in autocad and i
can convert fine |
| 15:09.49 |
Z80-Boy |
ALVAN: I
guess you stay with Autocad - no way how to generate 2D in Qcad and
3D in BRL-CAD from the same source |
| 15:10.35 |
Z80-Boy |
ALVAN: took
me 3 days to make a simple 6-edges plate in BRL-CAD for which I had
a blueprint in qcad |
| 15:11.20 |
ALVAN |
hm
ok |
| 15:11.35 |
Z80-Boy |
ALVAN: I had
to do it by calculating sinuses and cosinuses manually and typing
them into commandline |
| 15:11.50 |
Z80-Boy |
.oO(Advanced
Information Technology) |
| 15:12.00 |
ALVAN |
Z80-Boy,
manually there is bc for that :) you need only a
script |
| 15:12.10 |
Z80-Boy |
ALVAN: I did
in bc |
| 15:12.37 |
ALVAN |
ok i presume
there is more then only calculations |
| 15:12.58 |
Z80-Boy |
ALVAN: you
might however be able to make a thin slice through the house,
render it with rtedge and then you would get a "floor plan" without
the dimensions |
| 15:13.26 |
Z80-Boy |
ALVAN: in
Autocad you can select if you want a 3D or 2D view? |
| 15:13.37 |
ALVAN |
yes you
can |
| 15:13.42 |
ALVAN |
by default is
3D |
| 15:14.00 |
ALVAN |
or sometiems
depedns of the image |
| 15:14.05 |
Z80-Boy |
in BRL-CAD,
you can't even have dimensions... everything's blind |
| 15:14.27 |
Z80-Boy |
no way to
align one object on another |
| 15:14.32 |
ALVAN |
i did not say
i will try BRL-CAD .. icame here for an alternative |
| 15:14.38 |
Z80-Boy |
or to figure
out a point where two things intersect |
| 15:14.42 |
ALVAN |
in waht i saw
about it is more like for elctronics |
| 15:15.11 |
Z80-Boy |
electronics? |
| 15:15.45 |
ALVAN |
how
electronics boards are made ..but i think i did not read all about
it |
| 15:16.03 |
ALVAN |
i just was
glad that i found a CAD related channel |
| 15:16.41 |
ALVAN |
i see it
knows more then what i said :) |
| 15:19.05 |
ALVAN |
Z80-Boy, ok
thanks |
| 15:19.38 |
minute |
back# |
| 15:58.40 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:26.28 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 17:28.41 |
qazwsx |
here's the
latest weird hack I'm trying to do with brlcad -- when I use mged,
I'd like to be able to send commands / get results back from mged
via a unix pipe ... or a unix msg queue ... I'm not sure where to
jump in / start hacking; anyone have pointers? |
| 17:29.16 |
``Erik |
mged -c
blah.g < script |
| 17:30.29 |
qazwsx |
this is cool,
but isn't interactive right? |
| 17:30.33 |
qazwsx |
perfecably, I
want something like |
| 17:30.39 |
qazwsx |
mged -c
blah.g &; then in another window, I go |
| 17:30.50 |
qazwsx |
mg-run "in
blah.s rcc ..... " |
| 17:30.54 |
qazwsx |
or mg-run
"ls" |
| 17:31.03 |
qazwsx |
and it sends
it over to mged; then prints the results back to stdout to
me |
| 17:31.28 |
``Erik |
well, -c
(classic mode) is interactive and uses stdin/stdout instead of the
tcl/t window |
| 17:32.17 |
``Erik |
like any
interactive stdin/stdout type program, you can attach a stream
other than stdin to feed it input, like a pipe or file
handle... |
| 17:32.28 |
``Erik |
for shits and
giggles, try it out :) |
| 17:34.38 |
qazwsx |
oh wow, cool;
thanks, I didn't realize -c meant classic mode, which meant
stdin/stdout |
| 17:35.13 |
``Erik |
:) I tend to
use that mode a lot when writing code and testing... gui stuff is a
pain |
| 18:03.18 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:04.19 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
have one problem with mged. I wanted to save the configuration file
so I did File -> Create/Update .mgedrc and it said an error
message I don't remember what |
| 18:04.35 |
Z80-Boy |
Now the setup
is completely screwed, multipane is away, axes are
away. |
| 18:05.13 |
Z80-Boy |
When I set it
back and do File -> Create/Update .mgedrc I get an error message
Error: can't read "mged default(overstrike_font)":... |
| 18:05.24 |
Z80-Boy |
[OK] [Skip
Messages] [Details>>] |
| 18:06.29 |
Z80-Boy |
mged on
startup also prints: "Error reading .mgedrc: can't read
"mged_default(zbuffer)": no such element in array while executing
"set mged_default(zbuffer) " (file "/home/clock/.mgedrc" line
92)" |
| 18:07.21 |
qazwsx |
if you mv
~/.mgedrc to ~/.old-mgedrc and rerun mged, will it create a new one
for you? |
| 18:07.41 |
Z80-Boy |
Yes |
| 18:07.45 |
Z80-Boy |
then I can
save multipane |
| 18:07.59 |
qazwsx |
okay, does
this solve your problem? |
| 18:08.20 |
Z80-Boy |
but during
saving the mgedrc I still get an error message Error: can't read
"mged_default(overstrike_font)":... |
| 18:08.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Yes. |
| 18:08.34 |
Z80-Boy |
But there's
still an error message every time I save the .mgedrc |
| 18:09.21 |
qazwsx |
okay, so if
you start wiht a fresh .mgedrc, and save multipane, then when u
restart mgedrc, you get an error? |
| 18:10.57 |
Z80-Boy |
It solves
only half of the problem now I see |
| 18:11.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I can save
multipane but when I set up axes in all 4 windows and then do save
exit start mged the axes are not there |
| 18:13.46 |
Z80-Boy |
So the
problem is now, how do I make the axes stay over a mged
restart? |
| 18:14.52 |
Z80-Boy |
Delete mged,
setup everything at once, save, and pray that I won't need to
change anything anymore in the future? |
| 18:15.02 |
Z80-Boy |
mged ->
.mgedrc |
| 18:16.12 |
qazwsx |
sorry, don't
know; I started using brlcad about 24 hrs ago :-/ |
| 18:34.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I tried to
wipe .mgedrc, then set up panes and axes at once, then save, quit,
restart mged. |
| 18:34.47 |
Z80-Boy |
Doesn't work
- only panes are saved, axes are not present. |
| 18:38.45 |
qazwsx |
this is a
really really really dumb hack |
| 18:38.56 |
qazwsx |
but according
to man mged you can run a command on startup |
| 18:39.04 |
qazwsx |
maybe u can
set it up so that this one command sets up everything u
need |
| 18:52.57 |
Z80-Boy |
lol |
| 19:10.36 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 20:16.44 |
*** join/#brlcad cad35
(n=5702b5b8@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:40.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548755FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:45.10 |
brlcad |
``Erik: was
that internal error from mipspro? |
| 21:46.18 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p54875920.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:47.15 |
Z80-Boy |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g
<- vector oscilloscope demo |
| 21:47.53 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: my
mged cannot save configuration properly |
| 21:49.01 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 21:49.19 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: hm,
that might be something new since you're working on
head |
| 21:49.35 |
brlcad |
i'll have to
give that a try myself -- zbuffer was recently "disabled by
default" |
| 21:50.07 |
brlcad |
that
disabling might have introduced some other problem |
| 22:06.27 |
``Erik |
brlcad: gcc,
with -O3 on, um, animedit.c or something in mged |
| 22:42.27 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Did
you want to use the "book" style for the BRL-CAD
manuals? |
| 23:12.08 |
``Erik |
in theory,
any style should be trivial to slap on once the doc is all marked
up... no? |
| 23:25.04 |
starseeker |
in theory,
yes |
| 23:25.36 |
starseeker |
docbook isn't
like anything else I've run into thus far, not even TeX -
EVERYTHING gets it's own "label" identifying what it
is. |
| 23:25.58 |
starseeker |
so you have
to know what labels are available |
| 23:26.10 |
starseeker |
fortunately,
the docbook site is good for that once you get started |
| 23:26.21 |
starseeker |
I've begun
working on volume two now |
| 23:31.00 |
louipc |
??
you'e |
| 23:31.08 |
louipc |
you're doing
it manually? |
| 23:34.11 |
starseeker |
yep |
| 23:34.18 |
starseeker |
that's the
only way |
| 23:34.53 |
starseeker |
Neither the
pdf nor the word document have the correct starting information to
provide a converter with the "correct" info to make a good docbook
document |
| 23:35.00 |
louipc |
ouch |
| 23:35.04 |
starseeker |
you'll see
when I can post an example |
| 23:35.37 |
starseeker |
In some
sense, docbook create's a "meta" document - no formatting, but LOTS
of info about what each component IS |
| 23:35.51 |
starseeker |
for example,
an address is composed of components, each of which has its own
tag |
| 23:36.55 |
louipc |
so it all
comes down to manual marking up dang |
| 23:47.29 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 23:47.50 |
``Erik |
tex likes to
label most things, too... the big difference from the jade style
docbook I've dorked with (fbsd docs) |
| 23:47.57 |
``Erik |
is the
<p> tag for paragraphs |
| 23:48.34 |
``Erik |
and tex tends
to have more header info, since both the style and content exist in
the same file tree |
| 23:48.59 |
``Erik |
or was it
<para> |
| 23:50.56 |
``Erik |
<para>
heh... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=docs/35140 |
| 00:19.23 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup complete
through Lesson 1. |
| 00:22.14 |
starseeker |
<author>starseeker</author><speaking
voice="mutter">is going to be dreaming of
markup</speaking><emoticon>;-)</emoticon> |
| 00:25.17 |
louipc |
<slang
type="internet">LOL</slang> ? |
| 00:27.09 |
starseeker |
It was OK
until I looked at how far I had to go ;-) |
| 02:56.54 |
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| 06:12.41 |
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| 07:45.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:18.39 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: you
said it's possible to make a cartoon-style pen drawing rendering by
overlaying rt and rtedge output by <i_forgot_the_name>
command. |
| 09:19.00 |
Z80-Boy |
But that
means calculating twice as long. Is it possible that the output be
generated only by a single calculation? |
| 09:25.48 |
Maloeran |
I wouldn't
have expected rtedge to take as long as the raytrace |
| 09:26.09 |
Z80-Boy |
good |
| 09:45.32 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-009-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:56.56 |
Maloeran |
Does anyone
know the origin of this famous picture/video where a man walks in
front of a column of tanks and manage to stop it during a military
parade? |
| 11:57.06 |
Maloeran |
Or any other
information that might be relevant |
| 12:03.55 |
brlcad |
eh, that was
the infamous Tiananmen Square protest |
| 12:03.59 |
brlcad |
back in
1989 |
| 12:05.10 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
pixmatte or pixmerge |
| 12:07.46 |
Maloeran |
Right I got
it, thanks |
| 12:10.53 |
Maloeran |
Seems hard to
order a print of this picture in order to frame it |
| 12:17.00 |
brlcad |
probably
because it's copyrighted :) |
| 12:17.05 |
brlcad |
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4727787930108202470 |
| 12:17.48 |
Maloeran |
Well sure,
but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to pay for it
:) |
| 12:20.45 |
Maloeran |
I guess I'll
have to find something else |
| 12:22.53 |
brlcad |
http://cgi.ebay.com/TIANANMEN-SQUARE-TANKS-CHINA-TANK-MAN-24x34-POSTER_W0QQitemZ190154453851QQcmdZViewItem |
| 12:23.52 |
Maloeran |
Oh :), looks
like I wasn't looking at the right place |
| 12:24.36 |
brlcad |
http://www.popartuk.com/photography/the-unknown-rebel-pp0893-poster.asp |
| 12:25.31 |
brlcad |
maybe just
what you're searching on, he is known as "tank man" |
| 12:25.38 |
Maloeran |
I happen to
really wonder how I had my keywords wrong |
| 12:25.45 |
Maloeran |
I tried that
too |
| 12:29.55 |
Maloeran |
Thanks
brlcad, I'm getting it shipped |
| 12:31.17 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: could
you please advise on the problem I have with saving the config
file? |
| 12:45.30 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: I
did, day before yesterday.. probabaly a recently introduced
problem (like as of last week) |
| 12:45.59 |
brlcad |
remember that
you're working off of head now, you've got the latest .. and I
think that problem seems related from what you said it was
complaining about (z clipping) |
| 12:46.20 |
brlcad |
test would be
to revert the zclipping change and see if that makes a
difference |
| 12:46.45 |
brlcad |
i'll have to
dig through the changelog to see what exactly that change
was |
| 12:52.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Do you think
the videos would look better if rtedge-style contours were overlaid
over the picture? |
| 13:09.08 |
``Erik |
('cept with
tank dude, he was drug into the crowds by onlookers and thousands
of people died in chinas response to a peaceful hunger
strike) |
| 13:20.07 |
``Erik |
z80: there
are a few options, I don't think you'd like any of 'em... 1)
raytrace both the image and the rtedge copy and merge 'em 2)
raytrace the image and pass the output through a sorbel filter
(like in imagemagick or gimp) and compose them, 3) write a new
shader that does it for ya |
| 13:20.50 |
``Erik |
cell shader
might be a fun project *scratches chin* |
| 14:04.58 |
Z80-Boy |
I have set
compile flags CFLAGS to -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3
-pipe |
| 14:05.11 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548755B2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:05.12 |
Z80-Boy |
Does it take
effect during brl-cad compilation or does BRL-CAD set it's own
optimizer flags? |
| 14:05.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I have a
feeling that the rendering is very slow |
| 14:08.04 |
Z80-Boy |
Is there a
man rt? |
| 14:09.04 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 14:09.12 |
``Erik |
there is a
manpage |
| 14:09.16 |
Z80-Boy |
man rt,
brlman rt - nothing |
| 14:09.37 |
``Erik |
and um,
unless you do --enable-optimized, CFLAGS will be
respected |
| 14:09.57 |
``Erik |
actually,
CFLAGS will still be repected, but enable-optimized glues most
stuff to it like -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer ... |
| 14:10.07 |
``Erik |
MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man
rt |
| 14:10.26 |
``Erik |
erm, that's
bourne style, uh, I dunno how to do it in csh |
| 14:10.27 |
Z80-Boy |
so there are
already 3 different methods to get a manpage |
| 14:10.33 |
``Erik |
well |
| 14:10.40 |
``Erik |
man searches
$MANPATH |
| 14:10.55 |
``Erik |
so adding
/usr/brlcad/share/man to the MANPATH is how to make normal man
work |
| 14:11.07 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't use brlman, which I THINK just adds to MANPATH and calls
man |
| 14:12.41 |
Z80-Boy |
When I add
/usr/brlcad/share/man to /etc/man.conf, it still doesn't
work |
| 14:12.49 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: is
there a faster rt? |
| 14:12.59 |
``Erik |
indeed,
brlman is a simple shell script, heh |
| 14:13.03 |
Z80-Boy |
does it use
linked lists to search for the primitives? |
| 14:13.05 |
Maloeran |
Well, mine's
quite fast but it's not integrated into BRL-CAD |
| 14:13.05 |
``Erik |
that adds
stuff to MANPATH |
| 14:13.27 |
``Erik |
yours doesn't
do the large set of implicite primitives nor csg operations, mal...
:) |
| 14:13.40 |
Maloeran |
Pft, long
live triangles! :) |
| 14:13.47 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 14:14.04 |
Maloeran |
50-100fps on
raytracing is still amusing |
| 14:14.09 |
``Erik |
ok, lets
model a sphere and see who gets more accurate results and a smaller
data file :) |
| 14:14.11 |
Z80-Boy |
You cannot
make a cylinder, torus, sphere, ellipsoid, paraboloid or cone from
triangles no matter how many triangles you use. |
| 14:15.00 |
Maloeran |
You can get
close enough so that the fact that triangles are used has no impact
on the rendering |
| 14:15.10 |
Maloeran |
You would
still use CSG, just convert to triangles for rendering |
| 14:15.11 |
``Erik |
oh, and lets
talk engineering precision, not visual precision, we can talk about
accepting 10 micrometers of error on a motor vehicle sized thing
:) |
| 14:15.31 |
``Erik |
because,
y'know, we want it for engineering purposes, not just pretty
pictures |
| 14:16.14 |
Maloeran |
I never
really got into the weird curved triangle surfaces I described long
ago, it would have been nice for raytracing |
| 14:16.36 |
Maloeran |
Reasonably
fast to intersect for rays, much more friendly to describe curved
surfaces |
| 14:17.00 |
Z80-Boy |
for that I
need to figure out the lights |
| 14:17.17 |
Z80-Boy |
and that
means again finding out that everything I stumble upon is
insufficiently documented to be able to work with |
| 14:17.32 |
``Erik |
didja get the
rt manpage up? |
| 14:17.36 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 14:17.42 |
Z80-Boy |
only with
explicit prefix |
| 14:17.43 |
``Erik |
where is
brlcad installed to? |
| 14:17.47 |
``Erik |
oh, so you
did, heh |
| 14:17.50 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad |
| 14:18.04 |
Z80-Boy |
no I don't
want to type half a line prefix every time I run man |
| 14:18.16 |
Z80-Boy |
everything in
the system works on man, only BRL-CAD is a specialty |
| 14:18.23 |
``Erik |
take a look
at the brlman script, it SHOULD stay 'MANPATH="/usr/brlcad/man"'
somewhere in it? |
| 14:18.30 |
``Erik |
and, uh, you
can set the environment variable |
| 14:18.46 |
``Erik |
setenv
MANPATH $MANPATH:/usr/brlcad/share/man # for csh |
| 14:18.53 |
Maloeran |
Ah, it's
horrible. You must begin to find me annoying with that, but I'm
still unable to focus, think and work, love has completely messed
up my mind |
| 14:18.57 |
Z80-Boy |
but brlman rt
doesn't work |
| 14:18.58 |
``Erik |
export
MANPATH=$MANPATH:/usr/brlcad/share/man # for sh |
| 14:19.31 |
``Erik |
your brlman
may be ... odd... did you move your install? it's a pretty simple
shell script |
| 14:19.48 |
``Erik |
mebbe you
don't have awf? |
| 14:20.15 |
``Erik |
oh, shoot, I
brought my parallels cd back, so I can reinstall it and run obsd41
again, I'll try to take a look at it :D lemme go get it out of my
car |
| 14:20.16 |
Z80-Boy |
wihcclock@kestrel:~$ awf
|
| 14:20.16 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad/bin/awf: must specify -ms or
-man |
| 14:20.35 |
``Erik |
um |
| 14:20.37 |
Z80-Boy |
the brlman
script is somehow complicated inside |
| 14:20.51 |
``Erik |
complicated?
O.o |
| 14:20.57 |
Z80-Boy |
does it work
on your OpenBSD? |
| 14:21.07 |
Z80-Boy |
it looks
for |
| 14:21.12 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man |
| 14:21.12 |
``Erik |
I dunno, it's
a vm and I need to reinstall the vm software to start
it |
| 14:21.15 |
Z80-Boy |
${path_to_this}/../share/brlcad/7.10.3/man |
| 14:21.19 |
Z80-Boy |
${path_to_this}/../man |
| 14:21.23 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man |
| 14:21.27 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad/man |
| 14:21.42 |
Z80-Boy |
what's the
point of having brlcad twice on the path? |
| 14:21.55 |
``Erik |
and what does
"find /usr/brlcad/ -name rt.1" tell you? |
| 14:22.10 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad/share/man/man1/rt.1 |
| 14:22.21 |
``Erik |
iiiinteresting |
| 14:22.28 |
``Erik |
your brlman
is broken, wonder how that happened |
| 14:22.34 |
Z80-Boy |
brlman rt
mdoesn't do anything |
| 14:23.05 |
Z80-Boy |
I just
downloaded 1.10.3 from CVS compiled installed |
| 14:23.15 |
Z80-Boy |
before that I
deleted /usr/brlcad to make sure there isn't anything left
over |
| 14:23.50 |
Z80-Boy |
What I don't
understand is why man doesn't work when I add that directory to
man.conf |
| 14:25.31 |
``Erik |
<-- not
sure, perhaps it's cached somewhere? do ya need to rebuild the
whatis db or something? |
| 14:26.02 |
Z80-Boy |
man man.conf
doesn't contain the word "rebuild" |
| 14:27.44 |
Z80-Boy |
Still doesn't
work |
| 14:27.56 |
``Erik |
interesting |
| 14:28.21 |
``Erik |
is it read on
login? if you ssh into your own box or hop down to a vc and do a
fresh login, does it work? |
| 14:28.52 |
Z80-Boy |
clock@kestrel:~$ ssh
clock@localhost |
| 14:28.52 |
Z80-Boy |
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |
| 14:28.52 |
Z80-Boy |
@ WARNING:
REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED! @ |
| 14:28.52 |
Z80-Boy |
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |
| 14:29.15 |
Z80-Boy |
The sole
purpose of this message is to make sure people will ignore a man in
the middle attack in the case it really happens |
| 14:29.24 |
``Erik |
heh,
regenerated sshd keys since you last logged into yourself,
aapparently |
| 14:30.02 |
Z80-Boy |
if this
happens I delete ~/.ssh/known_hosts and always enter "yes" without
even looking at the fingerprint |
| 14:30.30 |
Z80-Boy |
If ssh was
designed to be secure, they would make sure man in the middle
attack is reported only when the key doesn't match and not every
other day. |
| 14:30.45 |
Z80-Boy |
No, it
doesn't work even through ssh. |
| 14:30.56 |
``Erik |
what's
"manpath" tell you? |
| 14:31.09 |
Z80-Boy |
bash:
manpath: command not found |
| 14:31.33 |
``Erik |
huh |
| 14:31.47 |
``Erik |
<-- fbsd
user, not obsd... :) |
| 14:33.10 |
``Erik |
ffs, stupid
fucking corporate image fucking bullshit... brb |
| 14:56.31 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 14:56.56 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: it
probably would look better, usually does (rtedge
overlay) |
| 14:57.43 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: any
idea, why my "brlman rt" doesn't work, and why I cannot save the
config file? |
| 14:57.56 |
Z80-Boy |
Can the CVS
code be in an inconsistent state? |
| 14:58.04 |
``Erik |
BRLCAD_ROOT
and BRLCAD_PREFIX were expanded wrong in generating
brlman |
| 14:58.26 |
``Erik |
<-- sorta
kinda seen similar differences in expansion on fbsd, is checking
out a fresh cvs copy on obsd41 now |
| 14:58.36 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik:
cool |
| 14:58.57 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 14:59.33 |
``Erik |
sucks, cuz
every day I want to use it, I have to install, reboot, let it
upgrade, reboot again, THEN I can use it |
| 15:01.41 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
damn, I've answered you three times on the config file now...
:) |
| 15:01.43 |
Z80-Boy |
looks like
brlman <anything> doesn't work |
| 15:01.48 |
Z80-Boy |
It definitely
worked before |
| 15:01.54 |
brlcad |
it's a recent
problem .. probably VERY recent |
| 15:02.12 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: what
were the previous 2 answers? Also "damn"? :) |
| 15:02.20 |
brlcad |
just has to
be looked at, and nobody has looked at it yet |
| 15:02.25 |
Z80-Boy |
aha |
| 15:02.33 |
``Erik |
sed -i.bak
's,brlcad/7.10.3/,,' /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman |
| 15:02.36 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 15:02.47 |
brlcad |
damn
frustrating that you've asked the same thing three time and ignored
or missed my responses each time to which I answered |
| 15:02.51 |
Z80-Boy |
sed: unknown
option -- i |
| 15:02.57 |
``Erik |
wow, obsd
sucks |
| 15:03.02 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't
remember I got the response |
| 15:03.08 |
brlcad |
exactly my
point |
| 15:03.33 |
``Erik |
mv
/usr/brlcad/bin/brlman /tmp/ && sed s,brlcad/7.10.3/,,
/tmp/brlman > /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman && rm
/tmp/brlman |
| 15:03.48 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: is
there a command I could write manually into the .mgedrc to turn
model space axes on in all 4 multipanes? |
| 15:03.59 |
brlcad |
also, the
manpath issue really is just a basic system setup problem -- brlman
should also work, but so should man |
| 15:04.05 |
Z80-Boy |
looks like
.mgedrc consists of commands |
| 15:04.12 |
brlcad |
there's
absolutely nothing special about the manpath that is special to
brl-cad |
| 15:04.20 |
brlcad |
it's just
another path like any other |
| 15:04.49 |
Z80-Boy |
does it mean
it's not a bug of BRL-CAD? |
| 15:05.06 |
``Erik |
for using
'man'? no, it's an issue with openbsd's man, probably user
error |
| 15:05.10 |
brlcad |
that brlman
doesn't work is a problem in brlman, yes |
| 15:05.14 |
``Erik |
brlman not
working IS our stick, though |
| 15:05.18 |
brlcad |
but that man
doesn't, heck no .. that's a problem between you and your
OS |
| 15:05.22 |
brlcad |
pebkac |
| 15:05.49 |
brlcad |
already
noted |
| 15:06.02 |
``Erik |
c'mon, dude,
you use obsd, you should know more than the average clueless linux
dork ;) *duck* |
| 15:06.07 |
brlcad |
it works
here, so it's gotta be something obsd specific I'm
guessing |
| 15:06.26 |
``Erik |
well, it
relates to something I saw on fbsd |
| 15:06.30 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: there
are things like "set mged_default(max_text_lines) 10000" -> is
there something like "set multipane(all_windows)"? |
| 15:06.34 |
brlcad |
fire up ssh
access again, and I"ll look at it |
| 15:06.47 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
evening |
| 15:06.47 |
``Erik |
remember when
I was asking if you'd mucked with the datadir ? |
| 15:06.51 |
``Erik |
<--
running his obsd vm |
| 15:06.57 |
``Erik |
<--
looking into it right now... *cough* |
| 15:07.01 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: now I
am behing the No Access Translator |
| 15:07.46 |
brlcad |
whenever,
there's just only so much that can be done when the problem seems
to be limited to just that environment .. what were your configure
options? |
| 15:08.09 |
Z80-Boy |
no options
just ./configure |
| 15:11.32 |
brlcad |
then yeah,
probably just some shell assumption in the brlman script .. what
does "which awf" report? |
| 15:11.58 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:12.02 |
``Erik |
scroll up,
brlcad |
| 15:12.06 |
``Erik |
we already
know the issue |
| 15:12.28 |
brlcad |
we
do? |
| 15:12.49 |
``Erik |
yes,
BRLCAD_DATA was expanded weird, perhaps between two seperate
configure runs |
| 15:13.08 |
brlcad |
oh, the
share/man |
| 15:13.14 |
``Erik |
in his
installed brlman, he has
MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man and his man files are
in /usr/brlcad/share/man/ |
| 15:15.55 |
Z80-Boy |
clock@kestrel:~$ which awf |
| 15:15.55 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/brlcad/bin/awf |
| 15:16.46 |
Z80-Boy |
can you
please turn on axes in multipane, save the .mgedrc and then find
the magical command in .mgedrc which turns the multipanes
on? |
| 15:17.21 |
brlcad |
you can be
really impatient, you know that? :) |
| 15:17.32 |
brlcad |
do you want
me to look at the brlman thing, or the multipane thing? |
| 15:17.46 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: don't
you remember the command by hart? |
| 15:18.00 |
brlcad |
hah, of
course not |
| 15:18.32 |
``Erik |
<--
already on the brlman thing... O.o |
| 15:18.32 |
Z80-Boy |
is there some
list of these commands somewhere? |
| 15:18.34 |
brlcad |
if I knew it
by heart, don't you think I would have said something an hour ago
when you first mentioned it? :) |
| 15:18.46 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 15:18.53 |
brlcad |
or half-hour,
whenver it was |
| 15:19.09 |
brlcad |
well, i would
have |
| 15:19.19 |
Z80-Boy |
sometimes I
get an impression that you cannot process things fast enough from
me and skip some of them |
| 15:19.25 |
brlcad |
you can't
keep a million lines in context *all* the time |
| 15:19.52 |
``Erik |
<-- lucky
to keep 4 :D |
| 15:20.51 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: I DO
skip them.. when you start complaining about a new issue. if you
don't I'm still working on the problem or something that I was
working on before you reported the issue |
| 15:20.59 |
``Erik |
(building
automake shtuff on obsd41, has a fresh cvs co to test this crap
on) |
| 15:21.05 |
brlcad |
all a matter
of priorities.. I can't just drop everything when you can't figure
out how to set your own MANPATH ;) |
| 15:22.08 |
Z80-Boy |
lol
:) |
| 15:23.43 |
brlcad |
``Erik: I
suspect it's just a matter of default manpath (in Makefile, after
configure) is set to prefix/man instead of datadir/man .. quick fix
should be to just add a search dir for BRLCAD_ROOT/man to
brlman.in |
| 15:24.24 |
brlcad |
as well as
'maybe' set mandir when datadir is changed in configure.ac ..
dunno, that seems kinda error prone |
| 15:24.26 |
``Erik |
possibly, let
me get a full-on build on obsd... last time, I just copied the
directory from fbsd, so I didn't have all the auto crap
in |
| 15:24.35 |
``Erik |
and I'm
seeing... interesting behavior out of autogen.sh right now
:) |
| 15:24.58 |
brlcad |
oh? ran fine
for me on z80's obsd |
| 15:25.12 |
``Erik |
yes, he has
some stuff set up that I don't |
| 15:25.31 |
``Erik |
<---
starting from a bare install with default environment |
| 15:26.19 |
brlcad |
oh right, it
does search brlcad_root/man already .. it's not just prefix/man ..
default must be something like pkg_datadir/man or
something |
| 15:27.02 |
brlcad |
well, I did
have to set the env vars that the autoconf/automake scripts bitched
about, but that was pretty benign |
| 15:27.12 |
``Erik |
that's what
I'm looking at |
| 15:27.29 |
``Erik |
you have the
variables set in autogen.sh, but you comment "2.52 or better", and
never checkk for "better" |
| 15:28.32 |
``Erik |
bleh, I'll
just set the variables and move on :) |
| 15:28.56 |
brlcad |
hm? it does
a minimum check |
| 15:29.41 |
``Erik |
"AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.9
AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.59 LIBTOOL_VERSION=1.5.22 ./autogen.sh" works,
./autogen.sh does not, complains that it cannot find
autoconf |
| 15:30.21 |
brlcad |
setting the
env vars is imposed by the obsd wrappers, there's not really any
way to compensate -- they don't report a version, so autogen.sh
can't identify them as autoconf |
| 15:30.28 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: yes
on OBSD you have set these annoying variables before calling any
auto-crap tool |
| 15:30.31 |
brlcad |
from the
scripts perspective, that is not autoconf, and it's
right |
| 15:30.46 |
brlcad |
it's a
wrapper .. and that wrapper doesn't work until the var is
set |
| 15:31.00 |
``Erik |
freebsd used
to require calling them at autoconf259 and automake19 before they
pulled their heads out of their asses, heh |
| 15:31.11 |
Z80-Boy |
lol |
| 15:32.36 |
``Erik |
now they have
wrappers that search for 'best version' if not being told which to
use |
| 15:32.53 |
brlcad |
I thought
about whether there was anything automatic that can be done for the
vars, like try auto-setting AUTOCONF_VERSION=minimum_version_here
.. and reinvoking autogen.sh for the user, but that won't work --
the wrapper expects that specific version |
| 15:33.27 |
brlcad |
so you'd have
to do a locate or have a table of possibilities, and that's
nfg |
| 15:35.57 |
brlcad |
last
mult |
| 15:36.11 |
``Erik |
/bin/ls
`which automake`-* | sort -n | tail -n 1 | sed
's/.*-//' |
| 15:36.26 |
Z80-Boy |
1.9 |
| 15:36.32 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
seems exceptionally "nfg" to me :) |
| 15:36.39 |
``Erik |
heh, that was
for brlcad, not you, clock :) |
| 15:37.05 |
Z80-Boy |
But it works
even on OpenBSD, which is impressive. |
| 15:37.06 |
brlcad |
maybe if
another OS does the same thing |
| 15:37.54 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: into
which script would this autodetect code have to go? |
| 15:38.06 |
Z80-Boy |
autogen?
configure? |
| 15:38.13 |
brlcad |
autogen.sh |
| 15:38.15 |
``Erik |
I'd imagine
autogen.sh, but brlcad doesn't like it, so *shrug* obsd suffers for
being an outlyer |
| 15:38.35 |
Z80-Boy |
but that's
because I ran autogen.sh on OpenBSD? |
| 15:38.43 |
brlcad |
it's also not
"the obsd way" .. they apparently want their users to set those env
vars |
| 15:38.50 |
``Erik |
n/m some of
the horrors in the code to just support irix, or just support
unicos :D |
| 15:38.54 |
Z80-Boy |
If the
developer ran it on Linux, made a sharp version I loaded the sharp
versionf rom a .tgz and compiled, then it would work,
right? |
| 15:39.21 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
except NONE of them to date resort to scanning the filesystem or
relying on things like makewhatis |
| 15:39.23 |
``Erik |
yes, if you
ran autogen.sh on linux, it'd "just work", same for most
os's |
| 15:39.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Or could the
script say "autoconf not foung please make sure that if you type
autoconf you get autoconf running, on OpenBSD you have to set up
some obscure variables"? |
| 15:40.38 |
brlcad |
I thought
about adding the same searching for freebsd when they would install
the bin/autoconf-* without the symlinks .. but in the end the user
really still needs to add that symlink regardless |
| 15:41.22 |
Z80-Boy |
Does the
autogen.sh require that "autoconf" runs Autoconf and not some
bloody script that prints an error message? |
| 15:41.24 |
``Erik |
but fbsd has
8 users, that's a lot more than the 3 of obsd ;) *duck* |
| 15:41.30 |
Z80-Boy |
lol
:) |
| 15:41.39 |
Z80-Boy |
Theo de
Raadt, me and who's the third one? |
| 15:42.00 |
``Erik |
I forget the
name, but he pipes up in #bsdcode on efnet once in a
while |
| 15:42.02 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:42.50 |
``Erik |
(unless you
do kernel or core system development, you probably don't want to go
there, they make ME seem like a well-mannered politic
sweatheart) |
| 15:43.16 |
brlcad |
hey, if you
can think of a way to get it to just work without searching, I'm
all for addin git |
| 15:43.28 |
brlcad |
s/n g/ng
/ |
| 15:44.50 |
``Erik |
no, I think
there has to be some form of scan, either by looking at
${PREFIX}/bin/automake-* or /var/db/pkg/automake* and searching for
a 'sufficient' version :/ |
| 15:45.09 |
Z80-Boy |
But I had the
variables set |
| 15:45.29 |
``Erik |
obsd's
wrappers do not perscribe to the princeple of least
surprise. |
| 15:45.41 |
``Erik |
for a
non-obsd person, at least |
| 15:46.06 |
Z80-Boy |
hmm I found
this |
| 15:46.23 |
Z80-Boy |
$id.menubar.modes.axes add checkbutton
-offvalue 0 -onvalue 1\ 1731 -variable
mged_gui($id,model_draw) -label "Model" -underline 0\ 1732
-command "mged_apply $id \"rset ax model_draw
\$mged_gui($id,model_draw)\"" |
| 15:46.32 |
Z80-Boy |
what should I
type into the .mgedrc? |
| 15:46.45 |
Z80-Boy |
mged-apply 0
rset ax model_draw, and also for 1 2 3? |
| 15:58.38 |
``Erik |
iiiiinteresting |
| 16:13.42 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/brlman/brlman.in: search the defined
"mandir", too |
| 16:24.57 |
``Erik |
awf is a
skeery beast O.o |
| 16:27.53 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: do
you have axes turned on in your .mgedrc? could you please post
it? |
| 16:28.39 |
``Erik |
I have no
.mgedrc |
| 16:30.13 |
Z80-Boy |
what's the
new linux kernel development? All version numbers
development" |
| 16:30.55 |
``Erik |
heh, so the
two branches of linux development are alpha and pre-alpha?
:D |
| 16:31.49 |
Z80-Boy |
no they are
pre-pre and pre-school. |
| 16:32.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Linux is for
teletubbies. |
| 16:32.32 |
Z80-Boy |
They can't
even figure out kernel interface description. |
| 16:33.27 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:34.23 |
``Erik |
they have a
weird behavior in ioctl that I've seen horrible horribly abused in
drivers, and the driver writers (nvidia) didn't seem to understand
why what they did was wrong, cuz it seemed to work on
linux... |
| 16:35.06 |
``Erik |
speaking of
shit-talking on linux... cjohnson has a fun article comparing linux
to fbsd in the mid 90's :) ummmm |
| 16:35.09 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: can
you please turn multipane on, set axes to model in all four, then
save .mgedrc and grep for model_draw in the .mgedrc and paste me
the magic lines I should add to get it? Thanks... |
| 16:35.45 |
Z80-Boy |
linux is
becoming the microsoft of free software :) |
| 16:36.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Torvalds has
sexappeal similar to Gates. |
| 16:36.47 |
MinuteElectron |
Gates?
sexappeal? lol |
| 16:38.48 |
``Erik |
heh, clock,I
have no idea how to use the program :D I got it i n multipane mode,
and I have the axis star on one pane... now I'm stuck, and I have
no idea how to save an .mgedrc :D |
| 16:39.11 |
``Erik |
and the cheat
card isn't hleping me O.o |
| 16:40.03 |
``Erik |
cool,
'create/update .mgedrc' in the menu gives me an error |
| 17:02.44 |
``Erik |
"Linux has
the feeling of a bunch of dos crackers getting together and putting
together a Unix box, with out ever having seen a Unix box before.
The kernel has a very "dos" feel to it. The console feels very much
like a dos console. The whole thing has an undercurrent of dos like
contamination running through it." |
| 17:03.02 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 17:03.36 |
``Erik |
http://www.cyberpaladin.com/~cjohnson/#report |
| 17:03.57 |
``Erik |
back when I
was a hardcore linux zea^Wadvocate |
| 17:09.13 |
yukonbob |
overheard on
#tcl: |
| 17:09.22 |
yukonbob |
Speaking of
Linux... did you ever wonder what it would take to justify a 3.x
kernel? |
| 17:09.32 |
yukonbob |
something
worth using? |
| 17:14.24 |
``Erik |
naturally,
you're suffering a hypochondriadic amplification, since you went
and researched it... |
| 17:14.55 |
Maloeran |
You believe
so? I thought I observed the symptoms long before researching the
subject |
| 17:15.18 |
``Erik |
that's why I
said amplification... :D |
| 17:15.19 |
Maloeran |
Survice is
going to be annoying with my severe drop in productivity if I don't
fix that quickly |
| 17:15.26 |
Maloeran |
to be
annoyed* |
| 17:16.10 |
``Erik |
hum, slashdot
has a 'real-time raytracing' headline up |
| 17:19.44 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-009-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:51.30 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 17:51.30 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| for ken:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates |
| 18:08.20 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
i've heard both with respect to tcl/tk versioning, and from folks
in #tcl, so I'm not really sure whom to believe (not that it
matters a whole lot, it'll be what it is when they release of
course) |
| 18:11.07 |
brlcad |
but yeah, the
last I'd heard, 8.5 would be their "final" when alpha/beta testing
completes |
| 18:24.45 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:26.11 |
brlcad |
excellent |
| 18:26.34 |
brlcad |
would be
something good to add to the wiki for others later |
| 18:27.31 |
Z80-Boy |
But it's just
a workaround for my immediate problem |
| 18:27.39 |
Z80-Boy |
I guess when
you fix it it won't be necessary anymore |
| 18:28.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Is there
something like rtedge, but doing a wireframe? |
| 18:29.44 |
``Erik |
I don't think
any accurate wireframe stuff is in BRL-CAD... the wireframe display
in mged is a basic approximation and does no CSG
solving |
| 18:38.35 |
Maloeran |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6993762.stm |
| 18:38.41 |
Z80-Boy |
When I turn
on the grid, what unit is a square? |
| 18:38.51 |
Z80-Boy |
It doesn't
seem to be neither 10 units nor anything similar |
| 18:41.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I think if I
should choose the coolest software in the world, it would be
BRL-CAD... |
| 18:42.05 |
Z80-Boy |
Development
started 1979, very oldskool, lots of unimagined possibilities,
binary file format, very cool clean rendering thanks to
CSG |
| 18:43.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Developed by
a world top workplace in computer technology... |
| 19:08.41 |
Z80-Boy |
how do I get
from SOL PICK to SOL EDIT state? I tried press <everything>
and nothing does it |
| 19:09.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Or is the way
how to directly enter SOL EDIT state on given solid? |
| 20:07.46 |
``Erik |
'sed blah.s'
? |
| 20:33.25 |
*** join/#brlcad poo1io
(n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu) |
| 20:35.41 |
Z80-Boy |
no it doesn't
work |
| 20:48.36 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
You're doing docbook markup on Vol4? |
| 21:08.14 |
yukonbob |
starseeker: I
started, yup -- we should compare notes etc. |
| 22:07.40 |
``Erik |
bob: ddija
look at hte vol2 markup to make sure it's all being done
consistently? :D |
| 22:16.10 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: not
yet... that's something I'm concerned about though ;) |
| 22:18.44 |
starseeker |
It may not be
fully consistent yet - I'm just getting started |
| 22:48.01 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
re: consistency -- I'm thinking between your work and my work :) --
of course ea. is a work-in-progress until it's done, but as long as
we're roughly as strict as the other, and using same formatting
where applicable... |
| 23:57.06 |
``Erik |
bob: commit
bit is about brlcad or lbutler... but if you submit a patch or
shar, I'd be able to look at it |
| 02:49.16 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 02:54.58 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Additional
markup |
| 04:54.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through
Lesson 5 |
| 05:19.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@217-162-111-201.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:10.16 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:33.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487536D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:58.43 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 12:28.33 |
Maloeran |
Hum! Okay, I
have quite a stupid question. How do you have command line tools
pick file names that begin with - ( dash ) without complaining
about an invalid option? |
| 12:29.15 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487536D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:29.37 |
Maloeran |
Ah right, a
preceeding -- does it |
| 12:30.36 |
archivist |
Maloeran, you
can quote a filename |
| 12:42.22 |
Maloeran |
"" would not
help, it would still complain about an invalid option |
| 12:49.55 |
brlcad |
some commands
take it, many in fact, but not all |
| 12:51.31 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: with
my patch it's much easier to work with matrices in red |
| 13:08.00 |
*** join/#brlcad cad52
(n=54095b3f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:33.42 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:34.02 |
thing0 |
hey |
| 13:34.08 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:00.09 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-117-055.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:06.27 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 14:33.40 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
okay, thanks! .. I was gone all weekend through Fri so it'll take
me a bit to catch up with all the e-mail/trackers -- I did see
them, though |
| 14:33.44 |
brlcad |
lots of good
stuff |
| 14:33.58 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
you're welcome |
| 14:34.15 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
could also get over that segfault and merge 2 databases together -
someone already fixed it |
| 14:35.45 |
brlcad |
yeah, looked
like john fixed it |
| 14:36.04 |
brlcad |
he reads your
postings too ;) |
| 14:38.59 |
*** join/#brlcad steko
(n=steko@generic-nat.unisi.it) |
| 14:50.18 |
brlcad |
ciao
steko |
| 14:50.30 |
steko |
ciao
brlcad, |
| 15:36.48 |
starseeker |
Welcome back
brlcad ;-) |
| 16:58.21 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:58.35 |
``Erik |
are you using
push or xpush any? |
| 17:49.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: missing the second test command
for the WITH_OPENGL conditional, irix shell no likey |
| 17:51.22 |
``Erik |
is that one
of those '"no" command not found' warnings? |
| 17:52.31 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 17:52.58 |
brlcad |
i'd fixed it
week before last, but apparently forgot to commit it |
| 17:53.14 |
``Erik |
good thing I
didn't waste time digging into it :D |
| 17:53.54 |
brlcad |
it was the
extra conditional you'd added on with_opengl to check for x11
too |
| 17:54.07 |
``Erik |
now why would
I be seeing "Sorry, this database is READ-ONLY" ? |
| 17:54.12 |
brlcad |
apparently
newer versions of 'test' don't mind it |
| 17:54.16 |
``Erik |
oh,
woops |
| 17:54.23 |
``Erik |
did I forget
doublequotes or something? |
| 17:54.25 |
brlcad |
dunno what
posix says about it |
| 17:54.38 |
brlcad |
nah, it was
the command itself, being able to do multiple
statements |
| 17:55.09 |
``Erik |
I was just
fixing those in a shell script on debian :/ |
| 17:55.16 |
brlcad |
you wrote:
test foo -eq bar && boo -eq yah |
| 17:55.23 |
``Erik |
yesh |
| 17:55.30 |
brlcad |
instead of:
test foo -eq bar && test boo -eq yah |
| 17:56.01 |
brlcad |
new test
apparently recognizes the && or silently ignores, or I just
didn't notice it was erroring elsewhere |
| 17:56.07 |
brlcad |
doesn't
matter, just added the second test, all better |
| 17:56.13 |
brlcad |
miniscule |
| 17:57.56 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh: Migrate to using "test"
instead of square brackets. Fix missing test on compound
statement |
| 18:04.18 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-92-121.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:09.57 |
``Erik |
z80: if you
use push after every matrix change, does it work better? O.o (push
applies the matrix tot he primitives, so the comb matrices are
reset back to identity) |
| 18:11.56 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: I use
red directly, is there a way to use push? |
| 18:12.16 |
``Erik |
um, inside of
red? I don't think so? |
| 18:27.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487536D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:27.29 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@199.247.232.95) |
| 18:27.35 |
yukonbob |
hello,
cadders |
| 18:28.18 |
brlcad |
howdy
yukonbobbers |
| 18:28.22 |
yukonbob |
;) |
| 18:28.58 |
yukonbob |
hey brlcad,
I'll take that committ bit from you now -- I've got docbook
material to post ;) |
| 18:31.48 |
brlcad |
you been
following starseeker's progress too? |
| 18:32.09 |
yukonbob |
yes -- we've
been discussing the markup off-channel |
| 18:32.17 |
brlcad |
ah,
neat |
| 18:34.24 |
yukonbob |
didn't want
to fill this w/ docbook geekery, but probable should do it here,
for logging's sake, everybody in loop :P |
| 18:34.51 |
yukonbob |
will do from
now on; nothing crititcal lost though ;) |
| 18:48.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Now I
understand why the threads are so slow |
| 18:48.33 |
Z80-Boy |
they are made
of slanted cylinders, and that probably translated to TGC, and
shooting TGC solves an equation of 4th order |
| 18:48.36 |
Z80-Boy |
brutal. |
| 18:52.14 |
brlcad |
anything even
remotely cad-related is fair game ;) |
| 18:53.00 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: and
the tgc's are actually fairly extensively optimized .. you could
probably squeeze another 10% out, but it'd be really
tough |
| 18:53.54 |
brlcad |
I suspect
that the boolean is actually where you're spending most of your
time, lots of CSG ops |
| 18:54.54 |
Z80-Boy |
boolean ==
? |
| 18:55.19 |
brlcad |
the csg
operations, union this with this with this, subtract this,
etc |
| 18:55.44 |
Z80-Boy |
this is also
optimized I guess |
| 18:55.49 |
brlcad |
very compact,
but can quickly become very expensive if you have to evaluate many
in a given cell |
| 18:56.13 |
brlcad |
heh, yeah ..
i've tried rewriting the boolean weaver on at least three separate
occasions now |
| 18:56.23 |
brlcad |
trying to get
some speed out of it, and clean up the code |
| 18:56.44 |
Z80-Boy |
what about
making a comb like a height field and rotating the comb
radially? |
| 18:56.55 |
Z80-Boy |
Would it be
faster than a lot of slanted cylinders stacked? |
| 18:57.15 |
brlcad |
not one of
those tries did the performance actually increase though (and once
even decreased significantly after the rewrite) |
| 18:58.12 |
Z80-Boy |
now I see the
difference between BRL-CAD and the rest |
| 18:58.17 |
Z80-Boy |
BRL-CAD does
proper bodie |
| 18:58.20 |
Z80-Boy |
bodies |
| 18:58.28 |
Z80-Boy |
most other
programs use a quake-like triangular approximation |
| 18:58.38 |
brlcad |
not sure
about using a height field .. my intuition would suggest that it'd
be *massively* slower just due to the number of operations involved
and the complexity of height field primitives |
| 18:59.43 |
Z80-Boy |
what else
then? instead of cylinders rotate faceted things? |
| 19:01.19 |
Z80-Boy |
model screws
as rivets, lol :) |
| 19:04.40 |
Z80-Boy |
but at least
the screws look like real screws |
| 19:06.00 |
Z80-Boy |
is it
possible to reference contents of another .g file in one .g file so
that when the "another" file changes, it has an effect? |
| 19:08.54 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: yep,
those "proper bodies" as you referred to them are what we mean when
we say that BRL-CAD predominantly uses an implicit geometry
representation -- not an explicit format or a polygonalized
approximation |
| 19:09.22 |
brlcad |
and also why
getting multi-representation working is so important.. so we can go
back and forth between the two more readily |
| 19:09.56 |
Z80-Boy |
polygonalized
is an approximation right? |
| 19:09.57 |
brlcad |
pipe is the
only primitive that quickly jumps to mind for a screw
thread |
| 19:10.00 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 19:10.11 |
Z80-Boy |
that's for
games, not rendering |
| 19:10.49 |
brlcad |
referring to
the contents in another .g is provided the "submodel" primtive ..
but that is *rarely* ever used.. I can't even think of the last
time it was tested, so it may or may not work frankly |
| 19:11.11 |
brlcad |
it's usually
better to do keep/dbconcat as needed for merging/mixing geometry
files |
| 19:11.17 |
Z80-Boy |
no help for
submodel |
| 19:11.24 |
brlcad |
it's a
primitive type |
| 19:11.36 |
brlcad |
in blah
submodel |
| 19:13.25 |
yukonbob |
re: screws
and hardware, I suggest checking out
ronja.twibright.com |
| 19:15.03 |
Z80-Boy |
treetop ==
? |
| 19:15.28 |
Z80-Boy |
space
partitioning method == ? |
| 19:20.02 |
Z80-Boy |
Is
concatenation of two binary databases also a binary
database? |
| 19:20.33 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:24.28 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: yes,
you can actually concat two dbs and end up with a valid db -- but
if you concat that way, then it's entirely up to the user to
know/resolve any naming conflicts beforehand |
| 19:24.49 |
Z80-Boy |
wow |
| 19:24.58 |
Z80-Boy |
I call this
oldschool |
| 19:25.00 |
brlcad |
i.e. it's
certainly doable, and often useful -- but wouldn't be the "usual"
approach I'd suggest unless you know what you're doing |
| 19:25.13 |
Z80-Boy |
is there a
unix command that does the same as "dbconcat" in mged? |
| 19:25.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Or can mged
be fired in a script? |
| 19:25.26 |
brlcad |
you mean
'cat' ? |
| 19:25.38 |
brlcad |
mged can be
fired in a script, that's probably best |
| 19:25.50 |
Z80-Boy |
how? mged
<< EOF commands EOF? |
| 19:25.54 |
brlcad |
mged -c
existing.g dbconcat imported.g |
| 19:26.22 |
brlcad |
you could use
an EOF herenow doc, but it will execute single commands if you list
one after the filename |
| 19:26.28 |
brlcad |
e.g. mged -c
file.g tops |
| 19:26.41 |
Z80-Boy |
but how do I
get the output into a file then? |
| 19:26.53 |
brlcad |
get what
output? |
| 19:26.55 |
Z80-Boy |
will it go
into existing.g? |
| 19:27.11 |
brlcad |
it'll do
whatever command you tell it |
| 19:27.28 |
Z80-Boy |
what does
dbconcat -s and what -p? |
| 19:27.32 |
brlcad |
if you mean
the text output that would normally be in the console, that's
primarily stderr output |
| 19:27.40 |
brlcad |
sometimes
content on stdout |
| 19:27.44 |
brlcad |
suffix/prefix |
| 19:28.08 |
brlcad |
it'll
auto-append a prefix or suffix so you can guarantee there are no
conflicting names |
| 19:28.12 |
Z80-Boy |
no I mean
mged existing.g -c dbconcat add.g will store the resulting bigger
database where? existing.g? |
| 19:28.14 |
brlcad |
during
import |
| 19:28.47 |
brlcad |
it's as if
you ran mged existing.g .. and then ran "dbconcat add.g" on th mged
command prompt |
| 19:29.07 |
Z80-Boy |
and if I want
to enter multiple commands on commandline? |
| 19:29.20 |
Z80-Boy |
omit -c, add
"exit"? |
| 19:29.26 |
brlcad |
no |
| 19:29.34 |
brlcad |
-c is
command/classic mode |
| 19:29.53 |
brlcad |
removing -c
means that it' |
| 19:29.55 |
Z80-Boy |
call mged
multiple times? |
| 19:29.58 |
brlcad |
it'll kick
off the tcl gui |
| 19:30.01 |
Z80-Boy |
aha |
| 19:30.08 |
Z80-Boy |
so for a
script, -c must be there...? |
| 19:30.12 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 19:30.32 |
Z80-Boy |
I think it
will be best if I want to assemble two models together |
| 19:30.32 |
brlcad |
now, whether
you list a command or not determines whether it's in single-command
mode or not |
| 19:30.45 |
Z80-Boy |
make a.g, b.g
and c_glue.g (source files) |
| 19:30.54 |
Z80-Boy |
and then cp
c_glue.g c.g |
| 19:31.01 |
Z80-Boy |
mged -c c.g
dbconcat a.g |
| 19:31.15 |
Z80-Boy |
mged -c c.g
dbconcat b.g |
| 19:31.18 |
Z80-Boy |
and then rt
c.g |
| 19:31.34 |
Z80-Boy |
then I'll
have proper dependencies in the makefile |
| 19:31.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, you can
reinvoke mged -c like that many times and it should be just fine --
it's really a lightweight binary in command-mode |
| 19:31.51 |
Z80-Boy |
how do I do
it with only one mged invoke? |
| 19:32.05 |
brlcad |
a herenow doc
like you suggested |
| 19:32.14 |
brlcad |
or source a
tcl script |
| 19:32.23 |
Z80-Boy |
mged -c c.g
< file_with_commands ? |
| 19:32.24 |
brlcad |
mged -c foo.g
source file.tcl |
| 19:32.34 |
brlcad |
or mged -c
foo.g <<EOF |
| 19:32.37 |
brlcad |
blah
blah |
| 19:32.38 |
brlcad |
EOF |
| 19:32.54 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
could use a redirect like that too |
| 19:33.07 |
Z80-Boy |
do I have to
put "exit" as the last command? |
| 19:33.07 |
brlcad |
echo "tops" |
mged -c foo.g |
| 19:33.19 |
brlcad |
nah, it quits
on end-of-file |
| 19:33.24 |
Z80-Boy |
what sucks
the most is not how it's slow, but that the dependences are
missing |
| 19:33.36 |
brlcad |
dependencies? |
| 19:33.40 |
Z80-Boy |
I change one
tiny nut and whole Ronja has to be recompiled, because i changed
the Big Mighty ronja.g |
| 19:33.53 |
Z80-Boy |
I have all
the hierarchy in ronja.g |
| 19:34.56 |
Z80-Boy |
but... a
problem |
| 19:35.02 |
Z80-Boy |
I won't be
able to edit the c_glue.g |
| 19:35.17 |
Z80-Boy |
since I won't
see what I am doing :( |
| 19:35.35 |
brlcad |
heh, well
depends what sorts of edits, and how often you need to do the
editing |
| 19:35.43 |
brlcad |
if the
editing can be scripted, you're golden |
| 19:36.07 |
brlcad |
pretty much
everything that you can do via the gui can be done in classic
mode |
| 19:36.16 |
Z80-Boy |
often |
| 19:36.24 |
Z80-Boy |
no scriptiing
of editing |
| 19:36.39 |
Z80-Boy |
I think I
need to use that seldom-used feature "dubmodel" |
| 19:36.43 |
Z80-Boy |
submodel |
| 19:36.48 |
Z80-Boy |
what's the
"space partitioning"? |
| 19:36.56 |
brlcad |
well that's
not a problem anything can really solve .. if you need to
graphically edit, then .. well.. human in the loop |
| 19:37.23 |
Z80-Boy |
no it can be
solved with the submodel |
| 19:37.33 |
Z80-Boy |
I just need
to type explicit dependencies into the makefile |
| 19:37.39 |
brlcad |
i'm still not
hearing what the problem you're actually trying to solve
is |
| 19:37.48 |
Z80-Boy |
I basically
need a brlcad equivalent of the C #include |
| 19:37.58 |
brlcad |
but what's
the *problem* |
| 19:38.11 |
brlcad |
what do you
need that for? |
| 19:38.19 |
brlcad |
not saying
you don't, there just might be another/better way |
| 19:38.21 |
Z80-Boy |
for
Ronja |
| 19:38.29 |
brlcad |
gah |
| 19:38.43 |
brlcad |
what is the
*task* that you need it for? |
| 19:38.47 |
Z80-Boy |
If I change
something on tiny part A, I don't want a video of tiny part B be
rendered again |
| 19:39.04 |
Z80-Boy |
The task is
to keep an up to date set of model videos of Ronja
parts |
| 19:39.12 |
Z80-Boy |
throughout
the development of the Ronja project |
| 19:39.18 |
*** part/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:39.49 |
brlcad |
okay, got
that good .. next question then is why does editing part A now
cause B to be rendered again? |
| 19:40.01 |
Z80-Boy |
Because they
are both in the same file - ronja.g |
| 19:40.06 |
Z80-Boy |
Editing part
A touches that file |
| 19:40.23 |
Z80-Boy |
The makefile
process is driven by timestamps on files |
| 19:40.24 |
brlcad |
ah, because
you're using something that checks the file timestamp, like make or
something |
| 19:41.01 |
brlcad |
got
it |
| 19:41.52 |
Z80-Boy |
someone calls
"Ronja is crap, it bent in the wind". I fire up mged console.g,
replace 2mm thickness with 3mm thickness, type "make rsync" and the
website is updated |
| 19:41.52 |
brlcad |
you can still
do what you want without resorting to submodels |
| 19:41.56 |
Z80-Boy |
How? |
| 19:42.03 |
brlcad |
keep each
part in it's own .g file, edit that file as needed |
| 19:42.19 |
brlcad |
have a make
rule that does the dbconcat of each of those files to make the
bigger .g |
| 19:42.21 |
Z80-Boy |
and how do I
render videos where several parts are assembled into an
assembly? |
| 19:43.30 |
Z80-Boy |
But I still
need the combination of the parts and the matrices that say how the
parts are shifted and rotated |
| 19:43.41 |
Z80-Boy |
and when
debugging this matrix, I need to have all parts loaded in
mged |
| 19:43.45 |
brlcad |
the videos
use whatever submodel portion is being rendered, so if you are
rendering a bolt animation, it'd use bolt.g -- if you are
rendering the whole thing, it'll necessarily be the whole.g and
will rerender when anything it includes updates |
| 19:43.52 |
Z80-Boy |
The only
solution I can see is use the submodel |
| 19:44.14 |
Z80-Boy |
As I said, no
way to actually work on whole.g |
| 19:44.38 |
Z80-Boy |
What is the
"space partitioning", or at least what should I type
there? |
| 19:44.46 |
Z80-Boy |
And what is
the "treetop"? |
| 19:44.47 |
brlcad |
if you work
on pushed matrices, then there are no shift/rotation matrices to
deal with during composition |
| 19:44.56 |
Z80-Boy |
what is a
pushed matrix? |
| 19:45.28 |
brlcad |
basically
think of it as order of operations when dealing with a
hierarchy |
| 19:45.29 |
Z80-Boy |
In any case I
need to tell brl-cad how the parts should be translated and rotated
before assembled |
| 19:45.38 |
Z80-Boy |
For this I
need to have all parts loaded at once to try it out |
| 19:45.56 |
brlcad |
you can have
a hierarchy that has matrics, or the matrices can be *pushed* down
to the leave nodes (i.e. all the way to the primitives) |
| 19:46.28 |
brlcad |
it's a
good/bad tradeoff in that it makes composition a breeze, but can be
harder since you loose a localized coordiante system |
| 19:46.33 |
brlcad |
(per
part) |
| 19:46.36 |
Z80-Boy |
hmm, what is
the space partitioning? |
| 19:49.20 |
brlcad |
just put a
zero |
| 19:49.25 |
brlcad |
if that
doesn't work, but a 1 |
| 19:49.25 |
Z80-Boy |
cool |
| 19:49.31 |
brlcad |
s/but/put/ |
| 19:49.32 |
Z80-Boy |
How do I know
it works? |
| 19:49.43 |
brlcad |
probably if
it doesn't crash on you |
| 19:49.44 |
Z80-Boy |
And the
treetop is actually the thing I want to include? |
| 19:49.59 |
brlcad |
like I said,
you're veering into code that hasn't been used really in many
years |
| 19:50.21 |
brlcad |
yeah, treetop
is the hierarchy you want to reference |
| 19:50.31 |
Z80-Boy |
Isn't there
really something like #include? |
| 19:50.58 |
Z80-Boy |
that would
just merge in another file, without actually adding it into the
working database? |
| 19:51.23 |
brlcad |
that is the
submodel object |
| 19:51.31 |
brlcad |
(didn't we
already go through this??) |
| 19:51.54 |
brlcad |
the only
difference is that it's asking you what line to start
with |
| 19:52.06 |
brlcad |
(if you're
going to compare to #include) |
| 19:52.52 |
Z80-Boy |
Works |
| 19:52.56 |
Z80-Boy |
but it made
the part all gray |
| 19:53.08 |
Z80-Boy |
How do I make
it to keep the region structure inside the part? |
| 19:56.46 |
brlcad |
hm, I don't
think it is |
| 19:57.12 |
brlcad |
it knows the
structure, i.e. it's still there, but there aren't any named
references to it unless you make submodels on a per-region
basis |
| 19:58.11 |
Z80-Boy |
I can't use
that then |
| 19:58.21 |
Z80-Boy |
Can I have
file a submodelling b and b submodelling c? |
| 19:58.23 |
brlcad |
how about
just keeping the one ronja.g file that you edit, but then have your
script do a 'keep bolt_test.g bolt', and check if bolt_test.g md5
is same as bolt.g to determine whether it needs to cp bolt_test.g
bolt.g |
| 19:58.40 |
brlcad |
yeah,
recursive submodels should work |
| 19:58.55 |
brlcad |
and you're
probably screwed if you make a cyclic reference |
| 19:59.03 |
Z80-Boy |
what is "keep
bolt_test.g bolt" supposed to do? |
| 20:00.06 |
Z80-Boy |
Oh
yes |
| 20:00.11 |
Z80-Boy |
that solves
the problem with editing |
| 20:00.16 |
brlcad |
keep is an
mged command, you'd have your ronja.g and then just break out .g
files for each of the pieces that you're rendering the in
makefile |
| 20:00.29 |
Z80-Boy |
I edit the
machine-generated file c.g and then do "keep c_glue.g c" and that's
it |
| 20:00.42 |
Z80-Boy |
I have even
the luxury to decide if I want to keep my experimental changes or
discard them wow :) |
| 20:00.46 |
brlcad |
but only
"create" the new .g files if the contents actually change using
something like g_diff or md5 |
| 20:00.55 |
Z80-Boy |
No need to
use the wipe-my-nice-colours command "submodel" |
| 20:01.03 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
sucks |
| 20:01.21 |
brlcad |
submodels
solve a particular class of problems, but not really the one you
need |
| 20:01.24 |
Z80-Boy |
but it has
the cyclic reference problem :D |
| 20:01.28 |
Z80-Boy |
My computer
would go on fire |
| 20:01.41 |
Z80-Boy |
I think the
makefile will be fine |
| 20:02.17 |
Z80-Boy |
does the
"keep" automatically keep all referenced objects or just the one
object? |
| 20:02.33 |
Z80-Boy |
i. e. if I
have a.c consisting of a.s and b.s, does it save only a.c or
everything? |
| 20:03.05 |
brlcad |
everything
referenced/needed |
| 20:03.14 |
Z80-Boy |
omg |
| 20:03.19 |
Z80-Boy |
how do I turn
that off? |
| 20:03.25 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 20:03.46 |
brlcad |
you wouldn't
ever want to turn that off, maybe you misunderstand.. |
| 20:03.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Is there a
command which does the same as keep, just saves the object without
references? |
| 20:04.00 |
Z80-Boy |
I would,
otherwise it would just save everything. |
| 20:04.09 |
brlcad |
a.c is just a
couple text labels without a.s and b.s |
| 20:04.17 |
brlcad |
there
wouldn't be any geometry |
| 20:04.20 |
brlcad |
nothing to
see |
| 20:04.32 |
brlcad |
a.c is the
operations |
| 20:04.42 |
brlcad |
you'd have
ops on nothing |
| 20:05.34 |
brlcad |
give it a
try, I don't think it means what you maybe think it
means |
| 20:05.38 |
brlcad |
there's a
model hierarchy |
| 20:05.45 |
brlcad |
a directed
acylic graph of geometry and operations |
| 20:06.24 |
brlcad |
do
display/use/edit *any* node in the hierarchy *necessarily* requires
the subtree below it (by definition) |
| 20:07.01 |
Z80-Boy |
It keeps all
prerequisites |
| 20:07.13 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't want
that. It's useless for me. I want just the single
object. |
| 20:08.30 |
brlcad |
it is the
single object... |
| 20:08.59 |
Z80-Boy |
no if I open
the database then I see a whole load of object |
| 20:09.01 |
Z80-Boy |
sobjects |
| 20:09.04 |
Z80-Boy |
objects |
| 20:09.05 |
brlcad |
you're
misunderstanding something really fundamental here about the
geometry hierarchy |
| 20:10.07 |
brlcad |
'ls' merely
shows you the geometry hierarchy flattened .. but there are
requisite inter-relationships |
| 20:10.30 |
brlcad |
if you have a
combination that says use this primitive and that primtive, those
*necessarily* need to exist or the combination is
invalid |
| 20:11.16 |
brlcad |
the
primitives are the leaf nodes of the hierarchy, they *are* the
positive and negative space |
| 20:11.40 |
brlcad |
the
combinations merely describe how to .. combine them
together |
| 20:13.47 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it
possible to have the combination saved in a separate
file? |
| 20:14.15 |
brlcad |
yes? |
| 20:14.18 |
Z80-Boy |
If I have two
parts A and B that come together then I have 3 videos: A, B, and
A+B |
| 20:14.41 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 20:15.13 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 20:15.24 |
brlcad |
A, B, and C
(where C=A+B) |
| 20:17.45 |
brlcad |
so you have
your ronja.g that has A,B,C ... your makefile will do a keep on A
and B for certain, and on C if there are more contents than just A
and B |
| 20:18.21 |
brlcad |
does the
keep, do an md5 to see if they're different content-wise, if they
are you cp |
| 20:35.19 |
``Erik |
*ponder* |
| 20:37.04 |
``Erik |
given a clone
operation on a primitive, any rotation, translation, mirroring,
etc. must alter the primitive in description as well as name, as
solids have no matrix attached... should clone on a comb have the
effect of push and hold identity matrix when given translation or
rotation? |
| 20:37.32 |
``Erik |
and when
cloning, say, 10 copies, does mirror insinuate that all ten are
flipped compared to the original, or that they
alternate? |
| 20:49.18 |
brlcad |
some solids
have a matrix, some don't .. but yeah it's all internal .. even the
ones that do |
| 20:49.40 |
brlcad |
I wouldn't
expect clone on a comb to push |
| 20:49.56 |
brlcad |
but it's
probably option-worthy |
| 20:50.45 |
brlcad |
just mimic
what the v4 code does |
| 20:50.47 |
``Erik |
hm, by
default, the state matrix is applied to all primitives on
copy |
| 20:50.56 |
brlcad |
you can open
a v4 and clone will work now already |
| 20:51.25 |
``Erik |
man, that'd
mean reading through the v4 format to figure ot what these direct
hacks do :D |
| 20:51.43 |
brlcad |
I mean run
the command, just see what it currently does |
| 20:51.53 |
brlcad |
i don't
recall it doing a push |
| 20:52.05 |
brlcad |
but don't
know what it did for -n 10 on a mirror |
| 20:52.15 |
``Erik |
not
explicitely, but in calling the v4_copy_solid, passing the
matrix... |
| 20:52.23 |
brlcad |
my guess
would be n mirrored copies, not flipflopping |
| 20:52.47 |
brlcad |
dbupgrade
-r |
| 20:52.50 |
brlcad |
(revert) |
| 20:52.56 |
brlcad |
ssshh |
| 20:53.07 |
brlcad |
intentionally
undoc'd |
| 20:53.15 |
``Erik |
the source is
the documentation O.o |
| 20:53.21 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 20:53.36 |
brlcad |
if they're
smart enough to get that far, more power to them for using the
option |
| 20:54.06 |
``Erik |
I'm also
kinda wondering if dbupgrade could do some magic testing to solve
endian and other 'gotchas' |
| 20:54.38 |
``Erik |
if it could,
reliably... then v4 can start getting marked 'broken' in places to
force adoption of v5 |
| 20:55.52 |
brlcad |
can't
practically force it, just have to make enough of a good reason for
them to upgrade/convert |
| 20:57.20 |
``Erik |
yes, by
slowly marking more and more v4 functions 'broken' (like,
bu_log("broken"); return NULL; ) |
| 20:57.22 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 20:57.22 |
brlcad |
would be
interesting to add the corresponding #defines to dbupgrade.c before
the headers to see if it could be forced to presume local is big or
little on-demand, though ... "should" work if the right things are
set/undef'd |
| 20:58.14 |
``Erik |
if its' just
endian, then having little and big endian tests for the file magic
should tell you to swap... hopefully no 'middle endian' or funny
width files are out there :/ |
| 20:58.34 |
``Erik |
or, rather, a
'right' magic and a 'backwards' magic |
| 21:16.00 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:21.30 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt232-45.northwestel.net) |
| 21:22.39 |
``Erik |
oh...
hum... |
| 21:36.33 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:48.23 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
ping |
| 21:49.14 |
iraytrace |
yukonbob:
pong! |
| 21:49.18 |
iraytrace |
;-) |
| 21:50.13 |
yukonbob |
did you
change your name sean? |
| 21:50.27 |
brlcad |
hum? |
| 21:50.33 |
yukonbob |
ah |
| 21:50.40 |
brlcad |
ah, heh
no |
| 21:50.41 |
yukonbob |
iraytrace
confused me. |
| 21:50.55 |
iraytrace |
sorry |
| 21:52.04 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: hey
-- re: docs -- how long might it take to get commit access (do you
need my sourceforge details?), or should I forward work to you for
posting? |
| 21:53.13 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yeah, need your sf.net user |
| 21:54.25 |
brlcad |
give me about
an hour .. just now running out the door |
| 21:54.48 |
yukonbob |
np -- thx,
brlcad :) |
| 21:54.50 |
brlcad |
time to cross
the border *ding* taco bell |
| 22:02.37 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
How long is vol4 shaping up to be as docbook? |
| 22:12.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through
Lesson 6 |
| 22:26.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through
Lesson 7 |
| 22:42.11 |
starseeker |
Sweet! |
| 22:45.35 |
yukonbob |
getting all
the references setup will be non-trivial, but I'm happy
;) |
| 22:48.07 |
starseeker |
Very
nice! |
| 22:48.37 |
yukonbob |
how's your
work going? |
| 22:48.58 |
starseeker |
and
images... |
| 22:49.04 |
starseeker |
a ways to
go |
| 22:49.11 |
starseeker |
But making
progress! |
| 22:49.24 |
yukonbob |
ah -- /me has
to do some images too -- I put in place-holder images
currently |
| 22:50.48 |
yukonbob |
I'd like to
thank $deity, my parents, all the other nominees... |
| 22:55.09 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
if you'd like my work to compare/contrast with what you've got
going, let me know. |
| 22:58.01 |
starseeker |
that would be
great - but if brlcad is going to give you commit privs, I'll get a
look at it then |
| 22:58.41 |
yukonbob |
sure
thing. |
| 00:39.04 |
yukonbob |
CIA-4:
up-and-running? |
| 00:40.13 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
we're going to have to talk (maybe w/ brlcad) how we want to
organize images. |
| 00:51.40 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 01:07.00 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
nice! |
| 01:07.28 |
brlcad |
seems to be
getting stuck a lot today |
| 01:12.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 01:19.49 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: thx
-- I'm pretty happy w/ it -- now i need to clean references (ie:
remove "hard notes" and make a proper bibliograpy) and cleanup the
title page/authors/dedications, etc... otherwise, I bet (and hope)
it's only minor issues that we'll want to fix. |
| 01:21.04 |
yukonbob |
...and fix
images. |
| 01:21.46 |
yukonbob |
but I've got
references in all the right places to grab what's necessary once I
have copies of the proper images. |
| 01:24.13 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: how
do you build docbook XML -> pdf? I use openjade/jadetex/dvipdf
-- if you run a diff't setup, I'd be curious to see the resultant
pdf. (test_img.ps is a random 236x200 img) |
| 01:24.52 |
starseeker |
brlcad - very
nice!! |
| 01:24.56 |
starseeker |
er
yukonbob |
| 01:25.39 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 01:26.33 |
yukonbob |
regarding
images -- I guess we could just create an "img" directory and pull
from that? Unless it's going to be too problematic pulling all the
images from a single dir... but I doubt it will be...
comments? |
| 01:28.03 |
starseeker |
I think that
makes sense - I would like to have some kind of sensible naming
convention for images, but that's probably not possible until the
final organization is done |
| 01:28.20 |
starseeker |
brlcad had
some ideas about how he wanted to re-org things, but we're a ways
from that |
| 01:36.23 |
brlcad |
yeah, dealing
with images is always a stickler, no matter the format |
| 01:37.17 |
brlcad |
inclination
would be a global 'images' directory, though per-dir images or just
putting images in the dir with their respective xml could work
too |
| 01:37.59 |
brlcad |
it gets
trickier when you want to reuse images in multiple places, assuming
some sort of hierarchical organization to the documentation, with
data in multiple places |
| 01:39.01 |
brlcad |
thinking of
them as source files helps, you often just end up with a data
resources directory where the images and other "loaded" resources
are kept that the source files refer to (which are docbook files in
this case, global entity refs) |
| 01:42.26 |
yukonbob |
...or just a
single global img dir, as I think about it... |
| 01:42.51 |
brlcad |
hm, I'd
rather shove the non-production stuff into the website -- the holy
grail would be to get mediawiki to docbook working as well as
docbook to mediawiki so files could be edited either on the wiki or
directly, and have the changes tracked and propagated |
| 01:43.21 |
brlcad |
other files
will grow the source tarballs exceptionally fast, as well as the
revision root files |
| 01:43.44 |
yukonbob |
makes sense
-- in that case, everything in the repos. will be
"production". |
| 01:44.00 |
brlcad |
we used to
have the pdfs in cvs before going open source, with many revisions
of each.. well over a gb of relatively "useless" data |
| 01:44.19 |
starseeker |
ouch |
| 01:44.52 |
brlcad |
starseeker: I
think at least for now, wiki spam woes aren't really a
concern |
| 01:45.04 |
starseeker |
OK
:-) |
| 01:45.31 |
brlcad |
the measures
we have in place in bz have worked exceptionally well (like one
incident a month at best), and that gets massive
exposure |
| 01:45.41 |
starseeker |
Very
nice! |
| 01:46.02 |
starseeker |
we should
probably look at that - the measures Bill ultimately put in place
on Axiom have proved rather unfriendly |
| 01:46.05 |
brlcad |
we used to
have major major problems, but after trying a dozen different
things, we seem to have it sorted out |
| 01:46.14 |
starseeker |
cool |
| 01:46.21 |
brlcad |
we even were
able to retain anonymous edits |
| 01:46.33 |
yukonbob |
! |
| 01:47.25 |
brlcad |
recaptcha
alone did wonders to thwart almost all of the automated stuff,
though there's also a blacklisting in place as well as a few other
measures |
| 01:47.44 |
yukonbob |
good to
know... |
| 01:48.26 |
brlcad |
we'd gone
through about 5 captcha systems before it, all useless |
| 01:48.57 |
brlcad |
even having
people answer questions while helpful, didn't mitigate
everything |
| 01:49.22 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
sure .. the difference is about 2 billion dollars a year
;-) |
| 01:49.43 |
starseeker |
Cool! I saw
the recaptcha thing go by on slashdot, and it sounded like a really
good idea |
| 01:50.11 |
brlcad |
not only is
the idea good, the captcha itself that they use is pretty much one
of the best so far |
| 01:50.28 |
brlcad |
could just be
a matter of time for someone to reliably "crack it" |
| 01:51.06 |
starseeker |
Well, at the
very least it will force someone to invent some really good OCR
algorithms ;-) |
| 01:52.40 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
solidworks -- is that about it? /me sees buzzwords like "parametric
feature-based" -- is it basically that they handle edits a bit
different? |
| 01:57.17 |
yukonbob |
I guess
that's another difference between solidworks and brlcad |
| 01:59.33 |
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| 02:00.15 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/xsystem.png
:) |
| 02:00.16 |
brlcad |
solidworks is
one of the "big four" (unigraphics/nx, catia, solidworks, and
pro/engineer) solid modeling systems, all 1bn+ gross revenue
businesses |
| 02:00.16 |
starseeker |
Humph -
correct me if I'm wrong, but did they just patent sub-component
searching of data objects? http://www.google.com/patents?id=L6B6AAAAEBAJ&dq=Solidworks |
| 02:00.46 |
IriX64 |
sorry |
| 02:00.49 |
brlcad |
cumulatively,
those four are about the domain of autodesk/autocad |
| 02:01.04 |
brlcad |
just focusing
in the drafting and 2d design sectors |
| 02:01.44 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: show
us the models _you_ make :) |
| 02:01.47 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
there are plenty of other differences, the biggest is probably the
support for parametric surfaces and feature edits |
| 02:02.21 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob: you
would cower in fear at the sight ;) |
| 02:02.49 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: /me
doesn't even know defintion of parametric, but any kinds of edits
are w/i the realm of brl-cad... |
| 02:03.05 |
brlcad |
parametric
surfaces very closely relate to having brep spline surface support,
something we're just now getting added -- with several manyears of
effort invested, there's still a LOT to do |
| 02:03.48 |
yukonbob |
?tough
science (ie: seperate from implementing in code) |
| 02:03.52 |
brlcad |
right now,
i'm just talking about fundamental representation support, what
that turns into with respect to a GUI and generalized editing user
interface is yet another level of work and complexity on top of the
representation |
| 02:04.25 |
brlcad |
some of it is
exceptionally hard (mathematically and algorithmic), some of it is
grunt coding ;) |
| 02:04.42 |
starseeker |
ooo - math
:-) |
| 02:05.26 |
starseeker |
Trimmed
NURBs? |
| 02:05.50 |
brlcad |
even with
some of the best education and experience, some of the
implementation details are simply trade secrets that aren't readily
published or available in quality formats, so you are basically
doing computer graphics research just to get things
working |
| 02:06.10 |
starseeker |
Indeed. |
| 02:07.07 |
starseeker |
brlcad; Is
this a reasonable introduction to some of the surface
representation ideas?
http://iit-iti.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/iit-publications-iti/docs/NRC-45828.pdf |
| 02:08.35 |
brlcad |
the other
"difference" that largely stems from the size and complexity of the
domain is that you can mean so many things when you say CAD (from
2D to 3D to 4D to parametric to implicit to explicit to drafting,
machining, manufacturing, analysis, designing, and then some) ..
the needs are so vast that the tools generally are written to be
this massive bag of tricks with relatively complex interfaces that
take a while to learn |
| 02:09.04 |
brlcad |
mged's really
no more complex to learn, it just beats you up during the process
on top of all you're trying to learn :) |
| 02:09.50 |
starseeker |
separates the
men from the boys ;-) |
| 02:10.02 |
starseeker |
(or women
from the girls as the case may be...) |
| 02:10.12 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: I
don't mind it either, but then it generally only beats you once ..
once you know, you know and it's efficient ;) |
| 02:10.58 |
brlcad |
i do mind
that it's hard for some folks that really do try to learn it, but
then fail to find the information they need -- you have to really
look at the source code or find an existing expert |
| 02:11.09 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
indeed -- it does what's necessary (reads a line of input) and gets
out of the way ;) |
| 02:11.48 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
not really, that's just a paper on tessellating nurbs surfaces -- a
good one, but not as an overview of surface
representations |
| 02:12.03 |
yukonbob |
well, this
documentation rewrite will hopefully get the docs "out there" more,
and the new website might spawn a new community, faq, wiki,
etc. |
| 02:12.29 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Ah.
Are there good "standard" introductory papers on the
topic? |
| 02:12.32 |
brlcad |
I've got some
really great pictures that show some of the basic differences that
I've prepared for various presentations that work pretty well for
explaining it -- I'll see if I have release authority on them next
week |
| 02:12.40 |
starseeker |
cool
:-) |
| 02:13.30 |
brlcad |
that
tessellation of nurbs surfaces is actually one of the critical
steps needed for fully multi-rep systems ... :) |
| 02:14.16 |
brlcad |
now that we
have the structure working with ray-tracing (minus some acne
issues), the next step is tessellation, CSG evaluation of NURBS,
and then implicit to BREP conversions |
| 02:14.32 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
brlcad and I were discussing shooting rays and how alien lasers
could be modelled on earth equip to see
strength/weaknesses |
| 02:15.21 |
brlcad |
to give you
an idea of what that translates to in code, that paper basically
boils down to the guts implementation of src/librt/g_brep.cpp's
rt_brep_tess() function |
| 02:15.37 |
brlcad |
which
presently just returns -1 ;) |
| 02:15.42 |
starseeker |
LOL |
| 02:15.51 |
yukonbob |
?not
42 |
| 02:16.19 |
IriX64 |
thats only
half the answer the whole answer is 84 |
| 02:16.24 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 02:16.49 |
starseeker |
(digest-paper
'NRC-45828) -> -1 Error: paper contains nothing useful
;-) |
| 02:16.54 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: show
us some models!! |
| 02:16.57 |
brlcad |
there are
actually a handful of instances of 42 in the sources ;) |
| 02:17.45 |
brlcad |
IriX64: did
you ever get Jamie to attach the brl-cad headers to that hex.c
program? |
| 02:18.40 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
I'd have to say lasers are cool, but in atmosphere I'd vote for the
mini-railgun on a tank :-) |
| 02:18.50 |
brlcad |
if you're
working on something here and run across a paper that isn't free
that you need, just lemme know |
| 02:19.04 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Thanks! |
| 02:19.22 |
starseeker |
Is there a
"global CAD bibliography" in the brlcad tree somewhere? |
| 02:20.43 |
brlcad |
i've started
one offline, but no not really |
| 02:21.11 |
brlcad |
that was one
of the things for the new website, I've got a few dozen
publications that refer to, use, or relate to BRL-CAD that are
relevant |
| 02:21.21 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 02:23.50 |
brlcad |
there's a
mini bibliography in the AUTHORS file .. that really doesn't belong
there, but has a few items |
| 02:24.00 |
brlcad |
at the
end |
| 02:25.47 |
starseeker |
OK
:-) |
| 02:27.41 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Has
anyone in the BRL-CAD project ever looked at the VTK
toolkit? |
| 02:28.26 |
brlcad |
oh
yeah |
| 02:28.41 |
brlcad |
pretty
heavily for a while |
| 02:29.11 |
brlcad |
http://ogigi.polsl.pl/biuletyny/zeszyt_14/z14cz3_6.pdf
isn't too shabby, it at least mentions many of the formats and
issues albeit a bit biased |
| 02:29.17 |
starseeker |
How bad is
the impedance mismatch between the API of the toolkit and what
brl-cad needs? |
| 02:29.33 |
brlcad |
volumetric,
parametric, implicit, explicit, brep, and nurbs at a
glance |
| 02:30.09 |
starseeker |
Cool -
thanks! |
| 02:32.33 |
brlcad |
ah, almost
forgot about mike's old writeup -- http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/90nmg/joined.html |
| 02:33.03 |
starseeker |
excellent! |
| 02:33.18 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
yeah, the question of interface and environments has been
long-discussed and worked on |
| 02:33.32 |
brlcad |
particularly
for building a new interactive modeler |
| 02:34.15 |
brlcad |
the brief
summary is that all the non-commercial options we're stuck with
pretty much are all inadequate or outright suck to various degrees
of suckage :) |
| 02:34.16 |
starseeker |
Did a
consensus emerge? |
| 02:34.22 |
starseeker |
ah
:-) |
| 02:34.31 |
starseeker |
even VTK?
nuts |
| 02:34.42 |
brlcad |
there are
some workable options, a handful really |
| 02:35.34 |
brlcad |
VTK has some
very nice aspects, and several downsides |
| 02:36.23 |
brlcad |
part of it
(and not to their faulting) is that the biggest issue/debate is
really that of the user interface itself, for which VTK doesn't
really directly address |
| 02:37.08 |
starseeker |
Ah |
| 02:39.10 |
starseeker |
No wonder
Paraview isn't much help then - it is solving a different UI
problem (or maybe a small subset of it, depending) |
| 02:39.32 |
brlcad |
there's your
windowing environment (think difference between windowed and
full-screen), the graphics context (think opengl and quartz and
framebuffers), the GUI elements (think gtk/qt, wxwidgets, cegui,
blenderui, etc), and the UI methodologies (think modalities, MDI,
custom behaviors, etc) |
| 02:39.56 |
starseeker |
Ah
yes. |
| 02:40.23 |
brlcad |
VTK is fairly
situated around the graphics context layer only |
| 02:40.28 |
starseeker |
right |
| 02:40.58 |
starseeker |
the GUI
elements are probably the biggest issue, particularly given the
portability ambitions of BRL-CAD... |
| 02:41.13 |
brlcad |
something
like SDL does windowing, context, and some minor UI
methodology |
| 02:41.47 |
starseeker |
The only
library I've ever seen that attempted to paper over ALL GUI element
environments was the Lisp CLIM project, which isn't mature and is
in the wrong language anyway... |
| 02:42.26 |
brlcad |
it's not that
you want something that does them all, but it's good to recognize
what pieces are still missing and what problems are being
solved |
| 02:42.44 |
brlcad |
the first two
are fairly easy to get set up and are rarely a bottleneck unless
you mess something up big |
| 02:43.03 |
brlcad |
VTK becomes a
pressing need when the context is the bottleneck |
| 02:43.19 |
brlcad |
or something
like it, as it deals with the data management aspects
well |
| 02:43.25 |
starseeker |
OK. |
| 02:43.26 |
brlcad |
as does
something like OpenSceneGraph |
| 02:44.05 |
brlcad |
OGRE is in a
similar boat but then of course being a render engine has nothing
to do with GUI so you still need a GUI toolkit |
| 02:45.18 |
starseeker |
IIRC Blender
sidestepped the UI kit by writing their own in GL or some
such? |
| 02:45.24 |
brlcad |
deciding on
your UI methodologies is a tricky (religious) topic but is at least
something we can probably pin down in our domain |
| 02:45.40 |
brlcad |
yes, they
wrote their own UI toolkit |
| 02:45.45 |
starseeker |
ouch |
| 02:45.47 |
brlcad |
which has
been both a major blessing and major curse :) |
| 02:46.37 |
starseeker |
As for MDI
related issues - isn't that something that can ultimately be user
configurable if the right design decisions are made? (The Gimp
non-withstanding...) |
| 02:46.40 |
brlcad |
it kept them
really agile in the early days, and made for a nice scalable opengl
interface that looks the same everywhere |
| 02:47.03 |
brlcad |
sometimes it
can, sometimes it's pretty fundamental |
| 02:47.12 |
starseeker |
Hmm. |
| 02:47.33 |
brlcad |
e.g. mged is
pretty heavily multi-windowed .. some of the major windows can be
combined but there are still a slew of independent dialogs and tool
panels |
| 02:47.50 |
starseeker |
True |
| 02:47.53 |
brlcad |
that was a
design decision for better or worse that impacts the usability,
feel, and appeal |
| 02:48.25 |
brlcad |
solidworks is
pretty much a one-window interface with most of the content
interlayed into the 3D scene |
| 02:49.14 |
starseeker |
Sounds like
something a workflow analysis would be good for |
| 02:49.20 |
brlcad |
unigraphics
is totally different (and probably one of the best at being
modeless) |
| 02:50.36 |
starseeker |
Wow.
|
| 02:51.21 |
brlcad |
In designing
the new interface for our modeler, I've always had a particular
vision of configurable usability that I think is a good blend of
some of the best ideas out there, taking a key from probably the
most successful interface makers in the industry |
| 02:52.45 |
brlcad |
WWAGD ..
"what would a game do" .. the gaming industry has by far put the
most research and iteration redesign into effective interfaces over
the last decade |
| 02:53.06 |
starseeker |
that's a
point, definitely |
| 02:53.13 |
brlcad |
they have to
grab the users attention, teach them sometimes utterly complex
interfaces and do so quickly and make them actually enjoy
it |
| 02:54.42 |
brlcad |
that single
approach alone drives a lot of the decisions of what I've had in
mind, something that makes CAD appealing, that is straightforward
to code with regards to design decisions, and is outright
enjoyable |
| 02:54.54 |
brlcad |
without
actually making it a game of course :) |
| 02:55.16 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 02:55.17 |
yukonbob |
no flight-sim
easter egg? |
| 02:55.22 |
brlcad |
mebbie
:) |
| 02:55.37 |
brlcad |
a tank sim
would be more apropriate given our history :) |
| 02:55.54 |
starseeker |
when the
newbie crashes, BRL-CAD would take them through a crash simulation
in full detail ;-) |
| 02:56.22 |
starseeker |
BZflag - now
with solid model damage simulation |
| 02:56.49 |
brlcad |
that's not
far from what we do already in the analysis domain ;) |
| 02:57.08 |
yukonbob |
embed
bzflag... |
| 02:57.17 |
brlcad |
(with the
analysis codes hooking into brl-cad for geometry interrogation and
representation) |
| 02:57.39 |
starseeker |
neat |
| 03:01.55 |
yukonbob |
chat later,
starseeker |
| 03:05.55 |
brlcad |
cya |
| 03:29.41 |
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| 05:55.28 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
coverity -- do I talk to you to talk to coverity for access to
their analysis? |
| 07:16.59 |
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| 15:36.49 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 15:37.41 |
``Erik |
heh, 3.5
years ago, a modified version of bzflag using BRL-CAD models and
real vulnerability code was seriously discussed O.o |
| 15:44.08 |
santorum |
bzflag is a
game somehow connected to BRL-CAD? |
| 15:46.40 |
minute |
In a very
convoluted way, yes. |
| 15:49.33 |
``Erik |
brlcad is a
major developer on both |
| 15:50.11 |
``Erik |
and BRL-CAD
was/is primarily developed (on tax dollars, anyways) for doing
simulations on army armored vehicles... :) like, y'know, tanks, 'n
stuff |
| 15:50.49 |
santorum |
and to make
models of Ronja |
| 15:51.01 |
santorum |
at least the
tax money are used in a partially useful way |
| 15:53.30 |
``Erik |
meh, the
funding avenue that BRL-CAD is part of saves metric assloads of
money, and I think BRL-CAD is one of the most useful bits of the
pipeline... *shrug* one of the least fucked up, anyways :D I mean,
c'mon, free to the world! |
| 15:54.09 |
``Erik |
probably the
second most used thing I have a commit bit for (OpenAL is probably
more used) |
| 15:54.44 |
``Erik |
<-- still
hasn't gotten a fbsd bit :D |
| 15:56.48 |
santorum |
we're still
waiting for open source nukes... |
| 15:57.38 |
santorum |
he, surfers!
Why read all those weather charts? Download our open source nuke
manual, put together couple of them in your garage, dump them into
the sea, shoot and you'll have great waves! |
| 16:01.08 |
santorum |
How
programming works: |
| 16:01.10 |
Maloeran |
Ouch. Perhaps
if you want to surf with a whole aircraft carrier |
| 16:01.12 |
santorum |
1) start with
empty program |
| 16:01.22 |
santorum |
2) debug
until you have desired functionality properly working |
| 16:01.48 |
santorum |
but the tubes
must be impressive |
| 16:04.30 |
archivist |
going to need
a tsunami for that |
| 16:05.06 |
santorum |
actually have
you heard about solitons? |
| 16:05.30 |
Maloeran |
Some kind of
stable wave? |
| 16:05.34 |
santorum |
yes |
| 16:05.49 |
santorum |
they found it
when a large boat abruptly stopped in a narrow canal in
England |
| 16:05.58 |
santorum |
and that
created a wave that smoothly ran along the canal |
| 16:06.11 |
santorum |
wihtout
actually undulating, falling apart or anything like
that |
| 16:06.17 |
santorum |
diminishing
only very slowly |
| 16:06.34 |
Maloeran |
There must
still be some serious loss of energy due to viscosity |
| 16:06.42 |
santorum |
Do you think
these solitons could be made easily surfable? |
| 16:06.43 |
archivist |
traveling
behind a ship on a canal is fun |
| 16:07.09 |
santorum |
cause one
could take some old railway tunnel, fill it with water and send
solitons down the tunnel |
| 16:07.14 |
santorum |
it would be
like a winter surf park :) |
| 16:07.24 |
Maloeran |
By the
dynamics involved in a surf wave, I would say there's a big loss of
kinetic energy there, I don't think it could be very
stable |
| 16:07.50 |
santorum |
what about
making it high but just before it starts making
whitewater? |
| 16:07.53 |
archivist |
surfer takes
the energy out |
| 16:07.54 |
santorum |
So it runs
smoothly |
| 16:08.05 |
santorum |
sure |
| 16:09.06 |
``Erik |
them crew
boys are odd http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:14316 |
| 16:11.33 |
``Erik |
almost as odd
as canucks http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:15608 |
| 16:11.34 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 16:12.21 |
santorum |
http://www.vcharkarn.com/vphysics/pictures/A273p1x1.jpg |
| 16:12.24 |
archivist |
http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive10/2005-09-06_motorcycleass.html |
| 16:25.53 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
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| 16:28.16 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yes, I've talked to the coverity folks |
| 16:28.45 |
brlcad |
they actually
set us up with a free scan a few months ago.. the scan was only
partial though as something in their setup failed -- it's not been
updated/changed since |
| 16:28.57 |
brlcad |
I pinged them
on the status a few weeks ago, but have yet to hear a response
yet |
| 16:31.04 |
brlcad |
santorum:
working on bzflag is one of my other passions, I'm one of the core
devs, leading contributor, project admin, yada yada .. good stuff.
it's a nice diversion and different style of coding environment
(with exceptionally different user base of course) |
| 16:49.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: use RT_LIBS since we
need libbu and other libs that are missing. hopefully helps with
unresolved symbols on ubuntu, but there's probably more cases like
this that need fixing. |
| 16:55.03 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: cool
-- I'd be interested in reviewing the brl-cad code as marked by
coverity once you hear back from them... |
| 16:58.18 |
``Erik |
heh, join the
club :) until then, use shtuff like 'flawfinder' |
| 16:58.59 |
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| 16:59.42 |
minute |
brlcad: The
pdfs, are they all going to be transfered to some over format then
archived somewhere other than the wiki (i.e. deleted from the wiki)
or will they always remain on the wiki and the other format offered
by default? |
| 17:13.44 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
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| 18:24.58 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yeah, I'm really curious to see what they find as well |
| 18:25.37 |
brlcad |
alas the
partial they did do didn't even get to brl-cad sources, aborted
early on in tcl/tk sources (they weren't ignoring src/other
yet) |
| 18:26.25 |
yukonbob |
:P |
| 18:26.36 |
brlcad |
minute: good
question, not sure I'd remove them from the wiki anytime
soon |
| 18:26.58 |
brlcad |
if they were
autogenerated nightly or something, then the wiki might be
eventually updated to just point to the file instead of it actually
being stored "in" the wiki |
| 18:27.15 |
brlcad |
like a
standard brlcad.org/docs/ path or something |
| 18:33.48 |
minute |
brlcad:
yeah |
| 18:34.11 |
minute |
sounds
good |
| 18:48.29 |
brlcad |
we can cross
that bridge when the docs are actually fully integrated into the
build system and being auto-generated |
| 18:48.48 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
with regards to toolchain, I think if you have a toolchain that
works, then that's the one to start with |
| 18:48.59 |
brlcad |
jade seemed
to be the best choice regardless |
| 18:52.48 |
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| 18:54.18 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/9N81gB57.html
<--- this happening to anybody else? |
| 18:56.05 |
IriX64 |
rerunning
with verbose |
| 19:06.04 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: don't assume that stdout
isn't being used, bu_log will likely someday be changed to log to
out instead of err |
| 19:07.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: do the same on windows,
don't close our output channels |
| 19:12.25 |
brlcad |
IriX64: did
you ever get Jamie to attach the brl-cad headers to that hex.c
program? |
| 19:12.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-90-137.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:12.45 |
IriX64 |
I was never
asked |
| 19:12.56 |
IriX64 |
but ill pass
that on |
| 19:13.12 |
IriX64 |
he says you
do it. |
| 19:13.35 |
brlcad |
I can't, it's
a legality matter |
| 19:13.48 |
IriX64 |
what should
he put in |
| 19:14.01 |
IriX64 |
he's
listening |
| 19:14.35 |
IriX64 |
is it in
read.me? |
| 19:21.24 |
IriX64 |
shot myself
in the foot, mea culpa :( |
| 19:37.48 |
brlcad |
sorry,
someone stopped by |
| 19:37.53 |
brlcad |
see the
header on any of the existing files |
| 19:38.07 |
IriX64 |
sure |
| 19:38.13 |
brlcad |
or run the
sh/header.sh script |
| 19:38.20 |
brlcad |
that'll
attach the header automatically |
| 19:38.24 |
IriX64 |
even
better |
| 19:38.41 |
IriX64 |
when he does
it ill post it |
| 19:38.46 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 19:39.02 |
brlcad |
please be
sure to have him put his full name in there as the
Author |
| 19:39.10 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 19:39.13 |
brlcad |
so he can be
attributed correctly |
| 19:40.50 |
brlcad |
typing this
on the fly, but this should be an example:
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c |
| 19:42.10 |
brlcad |
ah, here we
go:
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c |
| 19:50.07 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487560B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:52.32 |
IriX64 |
thanks |
| 20:47.05 |
starseeker |
brlcad: OK,
sounds good - yukonbob I think has had some success with the jade
route |
| 20:53.04 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
indeed I have -- use that Makefile I sent you as a template... what
kind of system are you trying to build on (ie: FreeBSD, Debian, Red
Hat, Windows, MacOS X)... |
| 20:53.42 |
starseeker |
I'm not yet -
I'm stubbornly trying to finish the markup to a valid state first
;-) Gentoo is my primary platform, so I already have jade
installed |
| 20:55.26 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
you should consider incremental builds, so you can check to see if
errors are cropping up along the way. If you need a hand
retro-fitting the Makefile, or with managing the .xml file, drop a
note... |
| 20:55.43 |
starseeker |
It's a good
idea. |
| 20:56.17 |
starseeker |
I've just
been "on a roll" and also trying to make it go faster by doing
"type specific" formatting - e.g. getting all the informal tables
at once |
| 20:56.49 |
yukonbob |
well, you
know where to reach me if I can help :) |
| 20:57.18 |
starseeker |
Yep :-)
Thanks! |
| 21:02.41 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: I
can't recall offhand - does openjade require a TeX
install? |
| 21:04.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: use FB_LIBS instead,
pick up the other dependencies that are needed |
| 21:10.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_4d.c if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c
if_sun.c if_wgl.c): |
| 21:10.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: BAM!
.. lingering windows is now the default. it only took hundreds
of |
| 21:10.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
complaints and 20 years of development. this change makes it the
default for |
| 21:10.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: most
of the existing active framebuffer interface types, also adding a
\\t\ |
| 21:10.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
option to complement the existing \\l\ option to allow folks to
obtain the |
| 21:10.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
previous behavior if needed. all this mode code really should be
consolidated |
| 21:10.15 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: and
made consistent, but that is a chore for another day. |
| 21:18.57 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: termio apparently needs TERMLIB
(need to verify), and don't include the optional FB_LIBS since the
Makefile.am takes care of it. optical does use/need librt; tclcad
needs libfb |
| 21:19.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: lingering framebuffer windows are now the
default |
| 21:24.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/.cvsignore: ignore
generated pkgIndex.tcl |
| 21:24.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 10 dirs): |
| 21:24.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: the
libraries really need to libadd all of their requisite dependencies
or there |
| 21:24.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: will
be unresolved symbols on platforms; this isn't just a libtool
issue |
| 21:24.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
(libtool needs this info). this change will hopefully help the
build on a few |
| 21:24.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
other platforms, though I suspect there are still a few obscure
cases (with |
| 21:24.57 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
buggy libtool) where unresolved symbols might be encountered with
dynamic/shared |
| 21:24.59 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
libadd libraries not getting carried through to the linker line for
binaries. |
| 21:38.19 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:46.34 |
louipc |
This SF.net
email is sponsored by: Microsoft |
| 21:46.35 |
louipc |
lol |
| 21:59.56 |
brlcad |
heh, nice
catch |
| 21:59.59 |
brlcad |
i didn't see
that |
| 22:11.56 |
archivist |
the cheeky
buggers managed a sqlserver google add on mysql's site
once |
| 22:17.45 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:28.19 |
Maloeran |
I'm a bit
surprised by all the advertisement from Microsoft on SF, I thought
they would be a bit more picky about the ads they
accept |
| 22:36.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through
Lesson 10. |
| 22:39.00 |
starseeker |
Maloeran:
Hey, if they want to fund the opposition who are we to object?
;-) |
| 22:39.41 |
louipc |
it's like
trying to sell wheelchairs to able bodied people |
| 22:40.00 |
starseeker |
Pretty much
;-) |
| 22:40.29 |
starseeker |
I was a bit
surprised to see Microsoft advertising there though |
| 22:41.06 |
louipc |
yeap |
| 22:41.51 |
starseeker |
crud,
shopping list |
| 22:42.16 |
starseeker |
back into the
maelstrom... |
| 23:22.15 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 00:19.28 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:20.44 |
IriX64 |
why am I
missing the lib that has XParseColor in it :( |
| 00:22.13 |
IriX64 |
have the H
file but not the lib |
| 00:22.45 |
Maloeran |
Are you
linking against libX11 ? |
| 00:22.52 |
IriX64 |
and bwish
wants it sigh |
| 00:22.54 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 00:23.15 |
Maloeran |
grep
XParseColor /usr/lib/lib* |
| 00:23.23 |
IriX64 |
did nor
there |
| 00:23.26 |
IriX64 |
not |
| 00:23.36 |
IriX64 |
oh
wait |
| 00:23.59 |
Maloeran |
Compile with
-lX11 , you really should have it |
| 00:25.09 |
IriX64 |
nothing in
usr lib, i found the h in usr/X11R6 |
| 00:27.02 |
IriX64 |
ill try
reinstalling x11 |
| 00:32.11 |
IriX64 |
heh or maybe
ill force a link :) |
| 00:40.00 |
``Erik |
if you can't
find it in /usr/lib (or /lib, should be a link on cyggy), it won't
link no matter what you do... |
| 01:02.57 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/dnNdbM40.html
<--- moving on whats this? |
| 01:34.30 |
``Erik |
heh, looks
like you pulled one of brlcad's gimpy mutilations to cope with
broken libtools :D libbu is being linked twice |
| 01:40.17 |
IriX64 |
thanks
:) |
| 01:41.11 |
IriX64 |
it happened
again in remrt, same reason i presume :D |
| 01:43.14 |
IriX64 |
btw, mged
uses that XParseColor thing too :( |
| 01:43.21 |
brlcad |
that's not
what that is, it's saying there are two in two separate
files |
| 01:43.51 |
IriX64 |
heh ``Erik
spoke, I shut up :) |
| 01:44.19 |
brlcad |
and there
actually are two bu_bomb() functions -- intentionally |
| 01:44.40 |
IriX64 |
why not just
use the libbu one? |
| 01:44.51 |
brlcad |
what is odd
is that it's erroring out on you instead of letting the one
outscope the other like it normally does |
| 01:45.18 |
IriX64 |
man multiples
are not allowed |
| 01:46.01 |
brlcad |
because lgt
captures various call events (like bu_bomb) and does its own thing
(namely in this instance flushes an image buffer |
| 01:46.33 |
IriX64 |
then it
shouldnt be called the same |
| 01:47.00 |
brlcad |
it actually
overrides the calls in routines that it doesn't have access to that
you wouldn't want to rename |
| 01:47.08 |
IriX64 |
specially if
your linking gainst a lib that has it already :) |
| 01:47.10 |
brlcad |
so it sorta
needs to be called the same |
| 01:47.41 |
brlcad |
the real
question is still why specifically is it error'ing |
| 01:48.03 |
IriX64 |
my compiler
doesn't allow multiple definitions |
| 01:48.14 |
brlcad |
dude, you
have no idea why it's happening |
| 01:48.15 |
IriX64 |
you can tell
it to tho and i did |
| 01:48.22 |
brlcad |
you're just
reading the message |
| 01:48.32 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 01:48.44 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
mean there isn't an option that allows it |
| 01:49.02 |
IriX64 |
see
above |
| 01:49.10 |
brlcad |
or even that
something else isn't provoking the error like a declaration
mismatch |
| 01:49.37 |
IriX64 |
that would be
reported seperatly |
| 01:49.48 |
brlcad |
not
necessarily |
| 01:49.54 |
IriX64 |
redefinition
of etc etc |
| 01:50.29 |
brlcad |
if it were
redefined yes, but not if it was a mismatch |
| 01:50.39 |
IriX64 |
define
mismatch |
| 01:50.47 |
brlcad |
one symbol's
in a lib in an entirely separate compilation unit, and doesn't even
necessarly pull in that header decl |
| 01:51.08 |
IriX64 |
don't
understand |
| 01:51.30 |
brlcad |
I didn't
really expect you to |
| 01:51.35 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 01:52.41 |
brlcad |
this isn't
really a productive conversation.. you can't debug that, and I
don't have that environment set up to debug it for myself just
yet |
| 01:53.16 |
IriX64 |
true |
| 01:53.26 |
brlcad |
last time I
compiled on cygwin, it compiled fully and neither lgt nor bu_bomb()
has changed since then |
| 01:53.41 |
brlcad |
so something
else is still "up" and it just needs some dev attention |
| 01:53.59 |
IriX64 |
last time i
compiled on cygwin nothing went right :) |
| 01:55.23 |
brlcad |
that seems to
be usually the case, and will likely continue to be the case until
someone that can trace through the issues has that environment set
up |
| 01:55.51 |
brlcad |
I might be
inclined to do that some weekend soon, but the website and other
code matters are in line first |
| 01:56.02 |
IriX64 |
of
course |
| 01:58.06 |
brlcad |
if you set up
ssh access, I could be even more readily coerced to look into the
build problems |
| 01:58.41 |
IriX64 |
ill think
about it. |
| 02:09.50 |
yukonbob |
?think about
it -- the lead dev. is offering to fix your specific problem in the
_actual_ problem environment |
| 02:15.47 |
IriX64 |
man this is a
hobby for me |
| 02:23.37 |
IriX64 |
thats what i
get for forcing a link, attach (nu|X) X =core dumped :) |
| 02:24.51 |
IriX64 |
well X is
buggered here lets try ogl |
| 02:30.37 |
IriX64 |
i mean brlcad
has better things to do with his time than babysit me yukonbob,
thats all. |
| 02:31.12 |
yukonbob |
re: hobby --
so that means you don't mind if it doesn't work? |
| 02:31.21 |
IriX64 |
right
:) |
| 02:31.33 |
IriX64 |
no production
environment here |
| 02:31.37 |
yukonbob |
sounds like a
frustrating hobby ;) |
| 02:31.45 |
IriX64 |
fun
actually |
| 02:47.11 |
louipc |
haha |
| 02:56.48 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob,
that also explains why there none of *my own models :) |
| 02:57.31 |
IriX64 |
brlcad gave
me a paper moose, I didn't know where to begin |
| 02:57.46 |
yukonbob |
we're
waiting... ;) Next havoc I see, I'm going to reach through the
internet and take your modem away. |
| 02:58.03 |
IriX64 |
heh ill try
cube ;) |
| 03:00.05 |
IriX64 |
meaning i'm
just a block head :D |
| 03:14.56 |
louipc |
paper
moose? |
| 03:21.22 |
IriX64 |
pix of
one |
| 03:34.20 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:34.32 |
IriX64 |
sigh
:) |
| 03:35.46 |
IriX64 |
wonder if
BitchX is more stable, or apropro here :) |
| 03:54.36 |
IriX64 |
nite
all |
| 04:15.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 04:15.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: nirt
fails to report LOS and sometimes even hits on a BoT that is
inverted or |
| 04:15.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
unoriented. most annoying is that just sometimes fails to report a
hit while |
| 04:15.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
other times it just fails to report an LOS thickness, even though
it does find a |
| 04:15.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
hit. |
| 04:20.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: formatting |
| 05:21.49 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
re: openjade -- I don't think openjade require any form of TeX, but
jadetex probably will -- lemme see if I can see what the deps are
on my 'puter here... |
| 05:23.10 |
yukonbob |
Information
for openjade-1.3.2nb5: |
| 05:23.11 |
yukonbob |
Built
using: |
| 05:23.11 |
yukonbob |
opensp-1.5.2 |
| 05:23.11 |
yukonbob |
xmlcatmgr-2.2nb1 |
| 05:23.27 |
yukonbob |
Information
for tex-jadetex-3.13nb5: |
| 05:23.28 |
yukonbob |
Built
using: |
| 05:23.28 |
yukonbob |
tex-hugelatex-2.0nb4 |
| 05:23.28 |
yukonbob |
teTeX-bin-3.0nb14 |
| 05:23.28 |
yukonbob |
digest-20070803 |
| 05:23.50 |
yukonbob |
... if you're
using portage, that should take care of everything,
though... |
| 07:25.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:01.15 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548771FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:45.14 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 12:57.41 |
``Erik |
bahhh |
| 13:20.15 |
brlcad |
hummmbug |
| 13:23.31 |
``Erik |
ahhhhh bumhug
</beavis> |
| 13:24.34 |
``Erik |
radmind
stomping /Library/Tcl/macports1.0 is getting irritating... not
nearly as irritating as stomping the parallels drivers,
though. |
| 13:26.45 |
Z80-Boy |
Hmm, brl-cad
produces .pix files where suddenly the lower part of the file is
brighter |
| 13:26.53 |
Z80-Boy |
rt produces,
to be more precise |
| 13:27.35 |
``Erik |
ah, filenames
are no longer part of ChangeLog? that was probably the most
strusfrating part about that file :D |
| 13:28.11 |
``Erik |
clock:
pix-png and post? |
| 13:28.53 |
Z80-Boy |
Sure that's
gonna happen |
| 13:29.12 |
Z80-Boy |
I am just
trying to figure out if it's accidentally not triggered by stopping
the rendering and then restarting it again. |
| 13:30.00 |
``Erik |
ahhhhh,
heh |
| 13:50.13 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:14.40 |
Z80-Boy |
Then it is
caused by breaking the raytrace and restarting it. |
| 14:15.10 |
Z80-Boy |
And now I
realized it doesn't go from top to bottom, but from bottom to
top |
| 14:15.16 |
brlcad |
that's
curious, although not entirely surprising |
| 14:15.21 |
Z80-Boy |
so after the
break, it doesn't render lighter, but darker |
| 14:15.31 |
Z80-Boy |
but
why? |
| 14:15.36 |
brlcad |
it will try
to continue a raytrace from the point that it left off at if
there's data already partially written |
| 14:16.09 |
brlcad |
so it's
continuing where it left off at instead of starting over (which was
a big deal when the images took hours) |
| 14:16.20 |
Z80-Boy |
Actually it's
more complicated |
| 14:16.35 |
Z80-Boy |
The unbroken
images are all "dark" (= black background) |
| 14:17.12 |
brlcad |
but
apparently from what youit's not picking up where it left off at ..
probably due to resetting the image gamma or something |
| 14:17.36 |
brlcad |
is this in a
framebuffer or to a file that you see the banding? |
| 14:18.21 |
brlcad |
mmmm.. the
dual quad cores are more than twice as fast as wopr
cpu-wise |
| 14:18.58 |
brlcad |
although
still exceptionally slower with I/O .. compiling still takes 5-10
minutes (where on the altix it takes just 2-4 minutes) |
| 14:20.12 |
brlcad |
getting a vgr
of about 12000 for a 12-processor altix .. which seems a bit lower
than I recall, but that's with all of the bells and whistles turned
on |
| 14:20.55 |
brlcad |
not using
intel compiler, thought .. that might be what I'm remembering being
about 17000 |
| 14:21.30 |
brlcad |
new mac
workstations are coming up at 26000 for me, though .. freaking
sweet |
| 14:23.58 |
Z80-Boy |
into a .pix
file |
| 14:24.14 |
Z80-Boy |
don't know
how to reproduce yet |
| 14:24.31 |
Z80-Boy |
faster than
running a compile for a week and rebooting the machine at random
intervals |
| 15:05.10 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
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| 15:10.05 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-024-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:55.45 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:08.30 |
*** part/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:34.20 |
``Erik |
http://www.bah3.org/main/index.html
is amusing |
| 17:35.18 |
``Erik |
4-6 miles in
60-90 minutes with several beer stops... I think Ic ould do that
O.o |
| 17:40.09 |
``Erik |
"a drinking
club with a running problem" |
| 18:25.16 |
brlcad |
mmm.. tcl
8.4b1 is now (really) posted |
| 18:26.23 |
``Erik |
8.5b1
? |
| 18:27.08 |
brlcad |
er,
yeah |
| 18:32.18 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-72-172.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:32.54 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:33.03 |
Z80-Boy |
I found and
analyzed the bug with "half of the picture bright" |
| 18:33.15 |
Z80-Boy |
It happens
only when -c "set gamma=2.2" is present. |
| 18:33.26 |
brlcad |
i figured it
was gamma-related |
| 18:33.36 |
Z80-Boy |
It loads the
gamma-corrected values into a buffer, then gamma-corrects them
again and spits them out |
| 18:33.47 |
Z80-Boy |
if you break
it multiple times, you get a "gradient" effect |
| 18:33.49 |
brlcad |
so is it
basically not setting/using the gamma or are exising new values
being overcorrected? |
| 18:34.06 |
Z80-Boy |
overcorrected |
| 18:34.06 |
brlcad |
ah, so
overcorrects |
| 18:34.32 |
Z80-Boy |
I think it
should make sure the already computed values should be spitted out
as they are |
| 18:34.44 |
Z80-Boy |
But worse
what I saw in the source I wasn't happy |
| 18:35.09 |
brlcad |
we could also
just get rid of all that "restart" code |
| 18:35.20 |
Z80-Boy |
1) it seems
to never output 0,0,0. That's wrong. If 0,0,0 is in the scene (real
black), I want real black and no distorted picture in the form of
deep blue! |
| 18:35.27 |
``Erik |
brlcad: /opt/
is ignored by radmind, but macports installs some stuff to
/Library/Tcl/macports1.0 which gets stomped... but the stuff I'm
messing with pertains to nice levels and number of concurrent
jobs... |
| 18:35.30 |
Z80-Boy |
2) similarly
it refused to output the background colour |
| 18:35.45 |
Z80-Boy |
3) some kind
of random noise seems to be added into the image and being bravely
called "dithering" |
| 18:36.06 |
Z80-Boy |
Dithering is
when you use spectral noise shaping - you need to use error
distribution |
| 18:36.12 |
Z80-Boy |
This is just
adding noise into signal |
| 18:36.37 |
Z80-Boy |
I am also not
sure if the values are properly rounded after gamma
correction |
| 18:36.59 |
Z80-Boy |
I wouldn't
mind getting rid of the restart code |
| 18:37.08 |
Z80-Boy |
Since the
idea of inband signalling is braindead |
| 18:37.25 |
Z80-Boy |
Either mark
"empty pixels" by their position beyond the end of file |
| 18:37.33 |
brlcad |
outputting
0,0,1 goes into deep history and there's fairly good reasons for
why it was done that way (regardless of whether there are other
ways this could be achieved today) |
| 18:37.50 |
``Erik |
it's one of
those "nifty features for 20 year old machines, but causes ugly
issues" type things :/ |
| 18:38.11 |
Z80-Boy |
What's the
reason for not outputting 0,0,0? |
| 18:38.14 |
brlcad |
0,0,1 can't
really be changed until 8.0 |
| 18:38.26 |
Z80-Boy |
I always
wondered why my videos are not on black background but on something
dark |
| 18:38.26 |
``Erik |
yeah, ti'd
break the pix files :( |
| 18:38.41 |
brlcad |
it's break
tons of stuff |
| 18:38.42 |
Z80-Boy |
What does it
mean break pix files? |
| 18:38.47 |
Z80-Boy |
ZOMG |
| 18:38.53 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
there is no alpha channel |
| 18:39.00 |
Z80-Boy |
and? |
| 18:39.10 |
``Erik |
is there a
reason for 0x1 as black other than restart? |
| 18:39.22 |
brlcad |
the
designated "background color" for which 0,0,1 is simply the default
effectively acts like an alpha channel mask without requiring the
additional bandwidth |
| 18:39.54 |
``Erik |
the pix files
are used in the distribution to verify correct results when running
the benchmark suite... if we change the nacent 'black' color, we'll
get many many 'off-by-one' errors :) |
| 18:40.11 |
brlcad |
that channel
"mask" is used all over the place, particularly in the framebuffer
library but in loads of the tools as well, for detecting background
vs non-background |
| 18:40.40 |
Z80-Boy |
lol it's all
a crappy inband signalling design |
| 18:40.46 |
Z80-Boy |
which
actually corrupts the signal |
| 18:40.47 |
``Erik |
heh, :( magic
colors can induce error |
| 18:40.56 |
Z80-Boy |
sorry, your
TV cannot show black, we used black as a special value |
| 18:41.13 |
brlcad |
that's why
it's not black actually |
| 18:41.15 |
Z80-Boy |
PCX could
encode black |
| 18:41.27 |
brlcad |
as black is
frequently requested |
| 18:41.36 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: what
value is it then? 0,0,1? |
| 18:41.39 |
``Erik |
yes, but PCX
kept a magic color, and you had to make sure you never tried to use
that magic color for a legitimate pixel |
| 18:42.12 |
``Erik |
(that and the
256 color palette, ick) |
| 18:42.25 |
Z80-Boy |
I think it
could encode all possible value |
| 18:42.44 |
``Erik |
and ugly rle
that could blow up your image size significantly if you gave it
unfriendly data, like a horizontal gradient... |
| 18:42.44 |
Z80-Boy |
if it had a
RLE escape, then the RLE escape was encoded as double escape or
something like that |
| 18:43.48 |
Z80-Boy |
The gamma
correction is also calculated as a separate pow() for each
pixel |
| 18:44.14 |
Z80-Boy |
995328 pows
for my frame... isn't that slowing down? |
| 18:44.23 |
Z80-Boy |
I did it with
a 16-bit table in links. |
| 18:45.28 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
0,0,1 is merely the *default* background color |
| 18:45.35 |
brlcad |
you can still
output black |
| 18:45.39 |
Z80-Boy |
so the "empty
value" is 0,0,1? |
| 18:45.44 |
brlcad |
or 0,0,1 if
you like |
| 18:45.45 |
Z80-Boy |
And can I
also output 0,0,1? |
| 18:46.05 |
Z80-Boy |
and can I
output all possible colours with a single background colour
setting? |
| 18:46.06 |
brlcad |
of course you
can |
| 18:46.17 |
Z80-Boy |
then it's not
what I thought it is |
| 18:46.30 |
brlcad |
are you just
looking for something to bitch about because you misinterpreted
something you read in the code? :) |
| 18:46.32 |
Z80-Boy |
But what is
this piece of code then? |
| 18:46.33 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.33 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.33 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.03 |
brlcad |
make sure the
*default* background color is never perfect black |
| 18:47.19 |
Z80-Boy |
but this is
in view_pixel |
| 18:47.38 |
Z80-Boy |
r, g, b is
actually the pixel value - the signal, the payload... |
| 18:47.50 |
``Erik |
athat only
happens if the ray never intersects, I think |
| 18:48.28 |
Z80-Boy |
no it happens
if ap->a_user != 0 |
| 18:48.35 |
brlcad |
as for pow()
.. show me a profile that shows that's a problem |
| 18:48.40 |
Z80-Boy |
and
ap->a_user == 0 has comment "/* Shot missed the model, don't
dither */" |
| 18:49.11 |
brlcad |
pow() is
accurate, tables aren't necessarily -- and the raytrace is vastly
dominated by the ray-tracing, not pixel operations |
| 18:49.26 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
accurate, but slow |
| 18:49.35 |
brlcad |
slow within a
given context |
| 18:49.47 |
``Erik |
pretty fast
if you have optimization on certain chips |
| 18:49.50 |
brlcad |
if it's 0.3%
of your computation time, who cares |
| 18:49.52 |
Z80-Boy |
but you're
right, it mosly chokes on the threads |
| 18:50.02 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: which
chips? |
| 18:50.19 |
brlcad |
i'll take
accurate over fast any day if there's not an order of magnitude
performance difference |
| 18:50.28 |
``Erik |
like, uh,
opterons, athlons, p4's, ... |
| 18:50.35 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ |
| 18:50.52 |
``Erik |
3dnow and I
think sse2+ have approximation fu on that? |
| 18:51.09 |
``Erik |
and
-ffast-math in gcc hopefully takes advantage of that |
| 18:51.24 |
brlcad |
either way,
that's the whole point of profiling .. you're totally guessing as
to the performance, speculative optimization is rarely
useful |
| 18:51.27 |
Z80-Boy |
-fdodgy-math
:) |
| 18:52.27 |
brlcad |
about as
helpful as believing in the "gotos are bad" as an absolute --
they're bad in a given context but not always, same goes for just
about every one absolute |
| 18:52.30 |
``Erik |
yes,
-ffast-math accepts some error in the name of speed... is also
ignores a good bit of IEEE754/854, like appropriate handling of Inf
and NaN |
| 18:52.45 |
Z80-Boy |
is there a
standard in C saying how floats are cast into int, whether they are
chopped down, up, or rounded? |
| 18:52.55 |
``Erik |
not in
C |
| 18:53.02 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:53.07 |
``Erik |
but there is
in ieee754, and it's... skeery. |
| 18:53.09 |
Z80-Boy |
then why are
you doing register int r=pow()? |
| 18:53.18 |
Z80-Boy |
shouldn't it
be floor(pow()+0.5)? |
| 18:53.48 |
Z80-Boy |
that floor
and 0.5 is inexpensive compared to that pow. |
| 18:53.53 |
Maloeran |
roundf()
which is C99 |
| 18:53.57 |
``Erik |
<-- uses
floor(), too *shrug* |
| 18:54.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I always
wondered why there are "flashes" in the Ronja video |
| 18:54.51 |
Z80-Boy |
It was
because it takes so long to render I have to break it and then
reboot |
| 18:54.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:54.59 |
Z80-Boy |
every time I
broke it, I got a flash... |
| 18:55.15 |
brlcad |
probably just
an oversight on the pow cast |
| 18:55.40 |
brlcad |
or just has
never mattered sufficiently |
| 18:56.23 |
Z80-Boy |
it usually
goes into YUV encoding anyway and that's such unbelievable crap
that it can hide anything I guss |
| 18:57.22 |
brlcad |
I'd give you
commit to make some of these changes, but you couldn't go breaking
backwards compatibility so readily with things like the background
color |
| 18:57.40 |
Z80-Boy |
no don't give
me commit it's better if a knowledgeable person revides that
first |
| 18:57.56 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:58.05 |
Z80-Boy |
I would
quickly make a surfboard hut from your code |
| 18:58.12 |
brlcad |
it'd still be
revised .. I'd envision several reverts too :) |
| 18:58.17 |
``Erik |
well, feel
free to use the 'patches' tracker, someone will review and comment
on it ... eventually... |
| 18:58.30 |
Z80-Boy |
or I can
patch it myself and keep it ;-) |
| 18:58.37 |
brlcad |
that you
can |
| 18:58.51 |
``Erik |
as long as
the license is respected, it's all good :) |
| 18:58.51 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:59.00 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:59.36 |
*** join/#brlcad minute_
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:59.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I guess
povray and other "competing" (not really ;-) ) systems don't do
this in-band signalling data damage |
| 18:59.47 |
Z80-Boy |
btw povray is
triangle-only? |
| 18:59.54 |
``Erik |
no, povray is
CSG with implicites |
| 19:00.02 |
Z80-Boy |
implicite==
? |
| 19:00.05 |
``Erik |
but it
outputs BMP iirc? |
| 19:00.09 |
Z80-Boy |
OMG |
| 19:00.17 |
Z80-Boy |
better than
Microsoft Word, though |
| 19:00.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 19:00.34 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 19:00.37 |
``Erik |
mwahahahhahahahaa |
| 19:00.48 |
``Erik |
a raytracer
that outputs to excel... with each 'pixel' being a colored cell
:D |
| 19:00.54 |
Z80-Boy |
lol |
| 19:00.56 |
Z80-Boy |
ex-cell |
| 19:01.40 |
``Erik |
'cept the
moment you wnat more than, say, 80x25 renders, it
crashes! |
| 19:01.53 |
Z80-Boy |
can BRL-CAD
render into aalib? |
| 19:01.55 |
``Erik |
also; white
isn't really white, it's 100,000, or SUPER-white |
| 19:01.56 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 19:02.01 |
Z80-Boy |
or better
libcaca? |
| 19:02.13 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: you
mean the 77.1*85 stuff? |
| 19:02.16 |
``Erik |
no, but you
can pix-png and push that through something that talks
aalib |
| 19:02.27 |
``Erik |
yeah, z80,
65536 = 100000 |
| 19:02.29 |
Z80-Boy |
or play the
video on aalib mplayer... |
| 19:02.38 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: where
is the news? |
| 19:02.44 |
``Erik |
erm,
slashdot? |
| 19:02.54 |
Z80-Boy |
You know
Windows Vista have to differ in something from XP - otherwise
people wouldn't buy it |
| 19:03.06 |
Z80-Boy |
So they
differ in the math - give BIGGER, BETTER results! |
| 19:03.09 |
``Erik |
65535 or
65536? O.o (and this was excel 2007, not windows) |
| 19:03.17 |
Z80-Boy |
With Vista,
your company accounting will shine suddenly in black
numbers! |
| 19:03.21 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: patch/suggestion from Z80-Boy,
round the gamma-corrected values to the nearest int consistently
using floor() |
| 19:03.27 |
Z80-Boy |
They don't
have Excel yet in the kernel? |
| 19:03.38 |
``Erik |
no difference
to your vgr's, I presume? |
| 19:03.54 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: if
you need clean signal data, have rt output floating point images
instead |
| 19:04.05 |
brlcad |
that's
probably as raw as it gets |
| 19:04.10 |
Z80-Boy |
raw
meat |
| 19:04.19 |
Z80-Boy |
then I can
get HDR lol |
| 19:04.23 |
Z80-Boy |
which format
is that? |
| 19:04.24 |
``Erik |
heh, yeah,
's/clock/Karel/g;s/Z80-Boy/Karel/g;s/whineybitch/Karel/g;s/...' |
| 19:04.27 |
``Erik |
*cough*
O:-) |
| 19:04.42 |
brlcad |
which
format? |
| 19:04.46 |
brlcad |
it's raw
floating point data |
| 19:04.49 |
``Erik |
or, uh,
's/clock\|Z80-Boy\|whineybitch/Karel/g' |
| 19:04.55 |
Z80-Boy |
well pix is
8-bit, which format is floating point? |
| 19:05.21 |
brlcad |
double-precision floating point values,
network ordered, iirc |
| 19:05.33 |
Z80-Boy |
into the
output file? |
| 19:05.46 |
``Erik |
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804
<-- and that's enough to mkae it not crap? O.o |
| 19:06.27 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: maybe
not anymore, after I "whined" ;-) |
| 19:06.40 |
brlcad |
manure makes
excellent fertilizer |
| 19:06.54 |
Z80-Boy |
Does it mean
the arbn mirroring bug is already fixed? |
| 19:07.33 |
Z80-Boy |
Being crap
actually doesn't mean a project is bad |
| 19:07.54 |
Z80-Boy |
If the
developers fix it, like in BRL-CAD they do very quickly, it doesn't
matter |
| 19:08.04 |
brlcad |
the "problem"
is that it's massive, so you don't have to look far to find an
issue .. the rate of issues per lines of code isn't likely any more
or less than most other projects |
| 19:08.12 |
Z80-Boy |
It booms? No
prob, you "whine" or "bitch" (actually bugreport), they fix it,
there we go... |
| 19:08.21 |
Z80-Boy |
massive and
oldskool :) |
| 19:08.35 |
brlcad |
and just a
lot of the issues .. really don't matter -- it's like making sure
there are no cobwebs in the basement .. when you never/rarely ever
go into the basement |
| 19:09.33 |
brlcad |
the last time
someone needed "actual" gamma correction was a decade ago, and they
were going to PAL, so it really didn't matter more than needing to
make sure the colors were consistent in intensity |
| 19:09.36 |
Z80-Boy |
make
ctags? |
| 19:09.48 |
brlcad |
make
tags |
| 19:09.53 |
Z80-Boy |
well gamma
correction is good to make sure you don't get Mach bands in 8-bit
data |
| 19:09.59 |
Z80-Boy |
tags make
etags which I don't use |
| 19:10.11 |
brlcad |
but you
should be :) |
| 19:10.12 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: you
know the TV theory? |
| 19:10.16 |
brlcad |
etags are so
much better |
| 19:10.21 |
Z80-Boy |
do they work
in vim? |
| 19:10.34 |
brlcad |
like i said..
they're better, so of course not ;) |
| 19:10.40 |
brlcad |
actually I
have no idea |
| 19:10.52 |
brlcad |
wouldn't be
surprised either way if there was a vim module for it |
| 19:11.14 |
brlcad |
etags are
just a lot better at tagging, fixed a lot of problems in
ctags |
| 19:11.19 |
Z80-Boy |
could
be |
| 19:11.27 |
Z80-Boy |
never tried
etags actually |
| 19:11.37 |
brlcad |
even etags
gets tons of things outright wrong in a code like
brl-cad |
| 19:11.57 |
Z80-Boy |
no
wonder |
| 19:12.25 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: do
you still need/want the sleep option, now that you know how to
linger a window? |
| 19:12.56 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: with
the linger I have to right click |
| 19:13.06 |
Z80-Boy |
With sleep I
don't need |
| 19:13.20 |
Z80-Boy |
it could be
used in a slow-motion script so that people can check if their
video doesn't contain any glitches |
| 19:13.23 |
Z80-Boy |
with -p
1 |
| 19:13.36 |
Z80-Boy |
When the
patch is already here... |
| 19:13.51 |
brlcad |
i do too,
just trying to see how useful |
| 19:14.10 |
brlcad |
can't be too
much crap, it's just like 4 lines |
| 19:14.25 |
Z80-Boy |
max. 4 lines
can be crappy |
| 19:14.31 |
Z80-Boy |
plus the
manpage patch. |
| 19:14.40 |
Z80-Boy |
Outsider
patches are mostly crap |
| 19:14.40 |
brlcad |
the bigger
issue is that of feature creep consistency, if it's going to be
added, it should probably be on all the tracers |
| 19:14.47 |
Z80-Boy |
L0CALZ
0NLY! |
| 19:15.18 |
Z80-Boy |
tracer ==
? |
| 19:15.28 |
Z80-Boy |
well then
don't add it |
| 19:15.29 |
brlcad |
ray-tracers |
| 19:15.42 |
``Erik |
that's just
opt.c, no? |
| 19:15.42 |
Z80-Boy |
is pix-fb a
raytracer? |
| 19:15.43 |
brlcad |
the ones that
output to framebuffer at least |
| 19:15.54 |
``Erik |
no, pix-fb is
a weirdassed converter O.o |
| 19:15.54 |
Z80-Boy |
Then better
not add it |
| 19:16.03 |
Z80-Boy |
My patch was
for pix-fb |
| 19:16.26 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
floating point files will be huge on the disk |
| 19:16.33 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
think 8-bit 2.2 gamma files are fine |
| 19:16.55 |
Z80-Boy |
My 2Y'CbCr
converter takes that input format anyway |
| 19:17.06 |
Z80-Boy |
It's much
better quality that what you get from common video formats
anyway |
| 19:17.13 |
``Erik |
erm, only 8x
the size of a pix... |
| 19:17.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I think the
clipping should be done in floating point and not in
int |
| 19:17.53 |
Z80-Boy |
if you get
some extreme light concentration from the raytrcing (lens)? you
could get black spots |
| 19:18.03 |
Z80-Boy |
"only" |
| 19:18.20 |
brlcad |
sounds good
to me, I'm not positive the dpix output was ever fully implemented
myself *grin* |
| 19:19.41 |
Z80-Boy |
did you see
Surf's Up? |
| 19:19.48 |
Z80-Boy |
It's a fully
rendered film about surfing penguins |
| 19:20.06 |
brlcad |
not
yet |
| 19:20.07 |
Z80-Boy |
they have the
waves quite good except two things: |
| 19:20.20 |
Z80-Boy |
1) the
penguin gets a stable ride at high speed which he I guess
shouldn't |
| 19:20.38 |
Z80-Boy |
2) they
didn't bother with calculating the waves spreading from the
surfboard |
| 19:21.04 |
Z80-Boy |
also maybe 3)
the waves turn up to be suspiciously perfect |
| 19:21.25 |
Z80-Boy |
But that
wasn't rendered in brl-cad, I guess |
| 19:22.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I wonder what
wavelet.c is used for, it sounds interesting. |
| 19:22.55 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.55 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.55 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:23.04 |
Z80-Boy |
Did you try
wavelet compression of the output data? |
| 19:23.58 |
Z80-Boy |
C. S.
Morrison everywhere ;-) |
| 19:24.44 |
Z80-Boy |
ah no that's
special thanks |
| 19:26.03 |
brlcad |
a few more
signficant patches bumps that up to code contributions, a *whole*
lot more and you'd be up in the dev category |
| 19:26.20 |
brlcad |
haar wavelet
transforms are awesome |
| 19:26.33 |
Z80-Boy |
yeah it's
like mipmaps |
| 19:26.42 |
brlcad |
kind
of |
| 19:26.54 |
``Erik |
[[1 1][1 -1]]
O.o heh |
| 19:26.55 |
brlcad |
a great way
to manipulate signal data |
| 19:26.57 |
Z80-Boy |
I once wrote
a wavelet preprocessor for lossless sound compression |
| 19:27.45 |
brlcad |
perform
decomposition all the way down, do a low pass filter, then
reconstruct .. beautiful noise reduction |
| 19:27.50 |
``Erik |
erm, but if
it's digital sound, it's already lossy :D *duck* |
| 19:27.56 |
brlcad |
and great
compression characteristics |
| 19:28.07 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: low
pass the highest band? |
| 19:29.17 |
brlcad |
it's not used
anywhere, it's one of a hundred or so standalone signal processing
tools |
| 19:29.48 |
brlcad |
if you see
noise in the trace, it's caused by tracer options or the
geometry |
| 19:30.03 |
brlcad |
(usually) |
| 19:30.30 |
brlcad |
e.g. using
jitter and not understanding what it means to rt |
| 19:31.08 |
brlcad |
bbiab |
| 19:32.09 |
``Erik |
hehehe, -j2
-h0 :o |
| 19:39.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Is there a
simple way how to disable the restart code correctly? |
| 19:39.44 |
``Erik |
um |
| 19:39.47 |
``Erik |
in uhhhhh
view.c |
| 19:39.59 |
Z80-Boy |
I'm still not
getting how it works |
| 19:40.15 |
``Erik |
line,
um |
| 19:40.18 |
``Erik |
1410ish |
| 19:40.28 |
``Erik |
change
HAVE_UNIX_IO to 0 |
| 19:40.31 |
``Erik |
that should
do it |
| 19:40.36 |
Z80-Boy |
lol
:) |
| 19:40.43 |
``Erik |
not quite
'correctly', but it should work |
| 19:41.13 |
``Erik |
well |
| 19:41.35 |
Z80-Boy |
sure, it
makes sense |
| 19:41.48 |
``Erik |
pretty much
every machine these days has unix i/o... |
| 19:42.25 |
``Erik |
and that
should go away, oh, next week when I get around to it
:) |
| 19:42.58 |
Z80-Boy |
view.c:211:
error: syntax error before '<<' token |
| 19:43.07 |
Z80-Boy |
lol, Z80-Boy
did a blind cvs-update |
| 19:43.19 |
``Erik |
the basic
premise of how it works is probably ... not quite right... I might
make it pre-fill the image to make sure there's space to write to
:/ |
| 19:43.33 |
``Erik |
yes,
<<<<<<<<<<<< confuses
C |
| 19:43.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I see brlcad
is very fast |
| 19:43.52 |
``Erik |
? |
| 19:44.05 |
Z80-Boy |
he already
added the floor(pow()+0.5) |
| 19:44.15 |
``Erik |
oh yeah,
almost an hour ago |
| 19:44.26 |
``Erik |
CIA-4
reported it... |
| 19:44.49 |
``Erik |
should I give
you my order? |
| 19:45.02 |
Z80-Boy |
order? |
| 19:45.11 |
``Erik |
you're making
enough food for everyone, right? |
| 19:45.16 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 19:45.22 |
Z80-Boy |
it's too far
away for you |
| 19:45.46 |
Z80-Boy |
unless you
send Air Force One for it of course... |
| 19:46.23 |
``Erik |
heh, air
farce one? O.o I don't even qualify to ride cattle on a commercial
flight |
| 19:46.48 |
Z80-Boy |
farce
lol |
| 19:46.52 |
Z80-Boy |
../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so.19.1:
undefined reference to `ogl_fogHint' |
| 19:46.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Do I need to
rerun autogen.sh now? |
| 19:47.03 |
Z80-Boy |
or
configure? |
| 19:47.07 |
``Erik |
um, gnumake
shoulda done that for you |
| 19:47.19 |
``Erik |
try, uh, make
clean in libdm and rebuild? |
| 19:47.35 |
``Erik |
apparently I
had some slop in my modification to configure.ac that brlcad
fixed |
| 19:48.44 |
Z80-Boy |
so now if I
break it in the middle of the pixfile it will just overwrite
it? |
| 19:48.58 |
``Erik |
should |
| 19:49.07 |
``Erik |
if it
doesn't, I'll look into it... |
| 19:49.19 |
``Erik |
SHOULD be
working on a, uh, document, though. |
| 19:49.35 |
Z80-Boy |
I need a
quick hack to produce correct videos for Ronja within that week you
plan to shoot it off definitely after |
| 19:51.31 |
Z80-Boy |
have you
heard about pcc? |
| 19:52.06 |
Z80-Boy |
They want to
put it into OpenBSD |
| 19:52.14 |
Z80-Boy |
It was
written in mid 70's! |
| 19:52.23 |
Z80-Boy |
Even a bit
more oldschool than BRL-CAD! |
| 19:52.35 |
Z80-Boy |
brl-cad
compiled successfully |
| 19:53.41 |
``Erik |
yes,
ummm |
| 19:53.46 |
``Erik |
netbsd did
it, too, I think |
| 19:53.53 |
``Erik |
it's less
gnu-ey than gcc |
| 19:54.16 |
``Erik |
and fbsd has
an annual 'replace gcc with tendra' trollfest |
| 19:54.38 |
Z80-Boy |
but now what
happens if I say have 50 frames computer from 360 and I break it
and run again |
| 19:54.44 |
Z80-Boy |
will 50
frames be skipped? |
| 19:56.07 |
``Erik |
it SHOULD
just disable the continuation of that one frame, and start that
frame over |
| 19:56.28 |
Z80-Boy |
so complete
frames will be skipped, and incomplete recalculated? |
| 19:56.38 |
``Erik |
I think
so |
| 19:56.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Otherwise I
need to calculate into a separate file and then do an atomic mv by
the script |
| 19:57.33 |
Z80-Boy |
can the rt
output color according to how long it took to calculate given
ray? |
| 19:58.18 |
``Erik |
no |
| 19:59.16 |
Z80-Boy |
what other
tricks it can do apart from rt and rtedge? |
| 19:59.41 |
Z80-Boy |
rtxray lol
:) |
| 20:00.05 |
Z80-Boy |
rtweight
too... |
| 20:00.42 |
Z80-Boy |
wow, it
really skips the complete file :) |
| 20:01.44 |
Z80-Boy |
but it still
does the same problem :( |
| 20:02.26 |
Z80-Boy |
oh no, that's
because I forgot make install! |
| 20:19.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Hmm make
install didn't help :( |
| 20:19.47 |
yukonbob |
``Erik:
netbsd is working/playing w/ pcc, yes. |
| 20:53.18 |
Z80-Boy |
It's about as
good idea as making it from asbestos |
| 20:53.25 |
Z80-Boy |
people
coughing blood will sue the ass out of you |
| 21:08.15 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-024-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:08.22 |
brlcad |
some of the
HAVE_UNIX_IO sections don't work without modification on Windows,
that's why they've not yet been removed .. needs some interactive
love'n'care'n'testing else they'll just turn into !_WIN32
sections |
| 21:13.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: merge of V5
implementation from HEAD |
| 21:17.33 |
``Erik |
ooh, a b ig
one O.o |
| 21:45.46 |
``Erik |
*yawn* |
| 22:35.38 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:36.50 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: only report the basename of
the editor |
| 23:54.58 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 00:38.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: blt
is actually already loaded as part of the preload in the main
archer script, so don't need this load here |
| 00:40.13 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: the minimum
version checks are bogus for the pre-release alpha distribution, it
needs to check all the way down to the patch level |
| 00:41.17 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 00:41.17 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667620.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 00:41.17 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 00:41.17 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 00:41.19 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch) |
| 00:42.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: additional try/catch
checking for archer so that we can print better abort messages when
things go horribly wrong |
| 00:42.43 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 05:42.26 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@217-162-111-65.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:04.04 |
brlcad |
g'damn
finally, archer now actually works on os x... |
| 06:35.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: |
| 06:35.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: the
mighty bob lieth not. blt_library really _does_ need to be set
AFTER blt is |
| 06:35.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
loaded. the variable is wiped out during Blt_Init() yet is
subsequently |
| 06:35.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
required/expected in the Tabnotebook. this is the final mod that
actually makes |
| 06:35.49 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Archer work on Mac OS X (tested, and seemingly fully functional)
and probably on |
| 06:35.51 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Linux and BSD too now. |
| 06:37.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 06:37.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
archer is now functional, at least seems to be fully functional now
on Mac OS X |
| 06:37.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: with
the slew of resource and library mods that were needed. archer runs
both |
| 06:37.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
installed an even uninstalled from a compiled source
directory. |
| 06:44.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: dupe |
| 06:49.24 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
nice! |
| 06:51.52 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 2 dirs): |
| 06:51.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
already deprecated since 7.0, consider the following files finally
obsolete for |
| 06:51.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: the
next minor update: msr.h, rtstring.h, rtlist.h, shortvect.h,
shortvect-pr.h; |
| 06:51.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: the
contents of those files moved into or were replace by functionality
in the |
| 06:51.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: bu.h
header |
| 06:54.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: there are a variety of install and
post-install support scripts now, aside from being an overly
vague/generic todo item |
| 07:20.52 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-005-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:30.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:35.43 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO doc/deprecation.txt): move the
deprecation items to their own file so that they can actually be
preserved in a running log of API changes, including basic
guidelines for how to go from deprecated to obsolete. |
| 07:45.08 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: implement a lighting model for rt that
visualizes how expensive each pixel is to compute via some heat
graph. |
| 07:45.26 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:31.55 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-005-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:57.58 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-005-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:52.09 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-020-061.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:34.59 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@i157-115.nv.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:52.46 |
L0CALZ_0NLY |
brlcad: what
about taking rtedge and in the black pixels and neighbouring ones
raytrace it with higher resolution than in the remaining
ones? |
| 13:53.06 |
L0CALZ_0NLY |
it should
work fine on models without texture mapping |
| 14:16.47 |
yukonbob |
...on to
tclcadAutoPath.c. |
| 14:41.29 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 15:15.27 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@i157-115.nv.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:24.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: |
| 15:24.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: Add
another path for RT. |
| 15:24.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Search for 'moss.g' in $DB and cull (so if the .g's are in a
different dir than $(top_srcdir)/db, the right path is
used). |
| 15:43.27 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@i157-115.nv.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:46.12 |
*** join/#brlcad cad28
(n=89f4d713@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:01.50 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@i157-115.nv.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:16.02 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:19.44 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: Disable image
restart. |
| 16:25.07 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: sorry
to bug but a bit of info about the current website status would be
nice. |
| 17:03.10 |
*** join/#brlcad frbrgeorge
(n=george@GW.itcomm.ru) |
| 17:03.48 |
frbrgeorge |
hi
there |
| 17:05.38 |
frbrgeorge |
I've got a
problem with autogen/configure BRL-CAD |
| 17:07.10 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 17:07.52 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:08.35 |
frbrgeorge |
using
-l<library> in LDFLAGS instead of LIBS in autogen.sh cause
modern ld failed |
| 17:10.03 |
``Erik |
hum, where
are you seeing that? |
| 17:11.09 |
frbrgeorge |
we have
--as-needed bu default in our distro |
| 17:11.44 |
frbrgeorge |
(I mean ld
--as-needed) |
| 17:12.19 |
``Erik |
ah, a debian
or ubuntu? |
| 17:12.46 |
``Erik |
with a broken
libtool? heh |
| 17:13.18 |
frbrgeorge |
so "cc
conftest.c -lpng" works, but "cc -lpng conftest.c"
doesn't |
| 17:13.34 |
frbrgeorge |
no, ALT Linux
;) |
| 17:14.12 |
``Erik |
odd, so it's
breaking at configure time? with the distributed configure
script? |
| 17:14.55 |
``Erik |
<--
doens't have any -l stuff in any of his LDFLAGS vars, grepped it
all |
| 17:15.42 |
``Erik |
mebbe if you
could post the offending bit of config.log to, say, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
? |
| 17:15.49 |
frbrgeorge |
no it just
can't foind libpng, libx11 etc, but not breaks :) |
| 17:19.27 |
frbrgeorge |
well, let me
check my unhack first... |
| 17:28.54 |
frbrgeorge |
...it partly
works |
| 17:33.29 |
frbrgeorge |
there's
nothing special to paste, but http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/pastebin.php?dl=d8910551 |
| 17:33.54 |
*** join/#brlcad qazwsx
(n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) |
| 17:34.44 |
qazwsx |
I've been
playing with mged and I was wondefing if there are operationsin
brlcad like the following: " here's a line segment; rotate it about
this axis; get me a curved surface"; "here's a line segment;
extrude it in this direction, get me a surface", ... "here is a
line segment; here is a sphere, run the sphere through the line,
get me the corresponding surface" |
| 17:35.35 |
``Erik |
and when you
flip where the -lpng is on that compile line, it works? |
| 17:36.01 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik:
yep |
| 17:36.05 |
``Erik |
qaz: not
really, it's a solid modeller... the last one can be done with a
pipe or cylinder and sphere's unioned on the ends... |
| 17:36.21 |
qazwsx |
``Erik: any
suggestion of anther tool? |
| 17:37.18 |
``Erik |
frbrgeorge:
that's a straight up AC_CHECK_LIB() ... I dunno what to tell you
with that :/ |
| 17:37.34 |
``Erik |
qazwsx: you
mean like qcad or blender? O.o |
| 17:38.20 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik: is
autogen.sh
15,1 Top |
| 17:38.37 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik:
(oops) is autogen.sh a generated file |
| 17:38.38 |
frbrgeorge |
? |
| 17:38.43 |
``Erik |
autogen.sh
should just call autoreconf with some flags |
| 17:39.01 |
``Erik |
it's a script
that brlcad found or wrote and has been tweaked a bit |
| 17:39.17 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik: (oops
twice:) I mean configure.ac, neturally |
| 17:40.05 |
``Erik |
erm, no?
O.o |
| 17:44.14 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik: so if
configure.ac is written manually, one has to replace those
LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS $LIBPNG" (etc.) clauses with LIBS="$LIBS
$LIBPNG" |
| 17:47.14 |
``Erik |
ahhhh, so
you're catching it on the AC_TRY_RUN(), not the AC_CHECK_LIB()
? |
| 17:50.08 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik: buth
:( |
| 17:50.36 |
``Erik |
there's
nothing we cna do about the AC_CHECK_LIB(), that's before those
variables get set |
| 17:51.07 |
frbrgeorge |
``Erik: no,
AC_CHECK_LIB seems to work |
| 17:51.53 |
``Erik |
<--
testing a fix... |
| 18:23.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: LIBS instead of LDFLAGS to
hold library names (thanks to frbrgeorge for spotting this
one) |
| 18:25.46 |
MinuteElectron |
]/w
32 |
| 18:33.03 |
yukonbob |
+++HANGUP |
| 18:34.26 |
``Erik |
heh, you mean
+++ATH0 ? |
| 18:34.36 |
``Erik |
hayes codes,
pheer |
| 18:35.31 |
yukonbob |
atdt [erik's
l33t 'puter] |
| 18:36.22 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:36.29 |
``Erik |
atpt
! |
| 18:36.30 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 18:36.45 |
``Erik |
popopopop
popopopop popoppopopopop |
| 18:37.12 |
yukonbob |
ah
pt.. |
| 18:37.15 |
yukonbob |
doesn
know. |
| 18:37.19 |
yukonbob |
*does |
| 18:38.18 |
yukonbob |
those should
be attp, attd |
| 18:38.26 |
``Erik |
oh, atp or
atdp |
| 18:39.02 |
yukonbob |
ah right ...
what is atpt? |
| 18:39.09 |
yukonbob |
atdp == dial
pulse. |
| 18:39.14 |
``Erik |
me
misrecalling and thinking atp |
| 18:39.25 |
yukonbob |
pheer indeed
;) |
| 18:39.31 |
``Erik |
it's been a
long time |
| 18:39.37 |
``Erik |
poke
53280,0 |
| 18:39.38 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 18:39.40 |
yukonbob |
together
we'll be able to get a c64 online |
| 18:39.43 |
``Erik |
c64
badassedness |
| 18:39.46 |
yukonbob |
hahah |
| 18:39.51 |
yukonbob |
6510
baby.. |
| 18:40.10 |
yukonbob |
only ml I
know... |
| 18:40.31 |
``Erik |
the coleco
adam was a neat machine, but the c64 was better at
games |
| 18:41.03 |
``Erik |
<-- has
done too many assembly languages and monitor/mnem :/ |
| 18:41.53 |
``Erik |
dambusters?
at night? |
| 18:42.02 |
``Erik |
so pretty
much an all black screen O.o heh |
| 18:42.13 |
yukonbob |
dambusters
sounds right. |
| 18:43.24 |
``Erik |
all in past
tense, obviously this person is no longer your friend after dumping
one of those things on 'em ;) *duck* |
| 18:43.44 |
``Erik |
hum, dragons
lair, buck rogers, ... |
| 18:43.52 |
yukonbob |
heh -- person
wasn't my friend, and writing a book on it was _their_ idea, not
mine ;) |
| 18:44.08 |
``Erik |
hrm, what was
the one with the helicoptor doing sorties to rescue people... with
the three buildings... |
| 18:44.40 |
yukonbob |
for
coleco/adam, me prefered the donkey kong series |
| 18:45.04 |
yukonbob |
b.c. quest
for tires |
| 18:45.08 |
yukonbob |
smurfs |
| 18:45.34 |
``Erik |
heh,
yeah |
| 18:49.16 |
``Erik |
heh,
gorf |
| 18:49.56 |
``Erik |
zaxxon |
| 18:50.40 |
``Erik |
choplifter
! |
| 18:50.48 |
``Erik |
damn, that
was driving me nuts |
| 18:50.52 |
yukonbob |
that rings a
bell. |
| 18:51.20 |
``Erik |
it was
significantly ported |
| 19:19.12 |
``Erik |
allllllrighty
then, BSD4.3 on a vax 11/780 |
| 19:26.37 |
brlcad |
scary |
| 19:32.25 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
that X include yesterday -- was a pkgsrc peculiarity; nothing to do
w/ the distribution or the flags. |
| 19:33.05 |
yukonbob |
now I'm onto
a tclcad issue (when I get some spare cycles) |
| 19:43.43 |
brlcad |
qazwsx's
inquiry can actually be done for the second case as well -- that's
just a sketch and an extrude; the surface of revolution and sweep
are the ones we can't do, but linear extrudes are old
news |
| 19:45.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-71-35.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:46.28 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
tclcad issue? |
| 20:02.14 |
*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon
(n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:02.33 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
http://www.pastebin.ca/723441 |
| 20:05.21 |
brlcad |
ick |
| 20:05.35 |
brlcad |
undoutedly
the const modifier .. haven't seen that in a while |
| 20:12.31 |
brlcad |
iirc, there's
a one-line fix to a tcl header that fixes the problem if it's the
one i'm thinking of .. but what was that line... |
| 20:38.46 |
``Erik |
hrmmmmm,
someone said something about long long a while ago and someone said
we don't use 'em... that ain't true, tcl.h has 'em :( |
| 20:39.27 |
``Erik |
and that spew
of errors almost looks like that regeh.h issue O.o |
| 20:46.05 |
``Erik |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1a1e1c3d |
| 20:47.01 |
yukonbob |
``Erik:
=) |
| 20:56.18 |
``Erik |
doh, that'll
teach me to rely on a tmp dir, heh |
| 22:08.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/scriptsort.c: declare yyin |
| 22:09.50 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: disable scriptsort if we
don't have a suitable lexer/parser since it needs a lexer (fixes
build on mjm) |
| 22:11.01 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
awesome |
| 22:11.25 |
brlcad |
getting the
build to work will probably be a heck of a lot easier with
--enable-only-benchmark |
| 22:12.17 |
brlcad |
hopefully you
have an up-to-date gcc on there though.. I'd had to revert back to
patches that're needed for old 4.3 compiler to work |
| 22:23.46 |
``Erik |
heh, no, it's
the cc that comes with bsd, all encumbered... :/ |
| 22:24.09 |
``Erik |
I was
thinking about checking out an old old old version from the vgr
era |
| 22:24.37 |
``Erik |
but I'll have
to talk to kermit to figure out exactly what kinda hw is
involved... I'm told the machine was bought with a single processor
and field upgraded to dual at some point |
| 22:46.00 |
brlcad |
you know
where the sources are right? |
| 22:47.38 |
brlcad |
/c/BRL-CAD/OLD on cad, you can get 3.0 or
4.0 from there .. 4.5 or 5.0 is probably the last version to be
tested on vgr before it was decommissioned |
| 22:53.30 |
``Erik |
I was gonna
just cvs 'em out |
| 22:54.02 |
``Erik |
pulling
source from '84 has been... edjimucational :) far more readable I
think |
| 22:55.29 |
brlcad |
there was a
lot less of it |
| 22:55.52 |
``Erik |
yes, less
files, and they're much simpler and shorter |
| 22:55.54 |
brlcad |
two decades
of feature creep and enhancing |
| 22:56.02 |
``Erik |
raytrace.h
was especially useful :) |
| 22:56.38 |
brlcad |
that was a
fun exercise, finding all of those old versions and tagging
them |
| 22:56.56 |
brlcad |
I didn't try
to compile the really old ones, just tagged for
reference |
| 22:57.01 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 22:57.03 |
brlcad |
since some
files had moved/renamed |
| 22:57.13 |
``Erik |
yeah, and
early on, ther'es not even a build system |
| 22:57.14 |
brlcad |
and would
have been mostly futile/incompatible |
| 22:57.22 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 22:57.29 |
``Erik |
and some of
the tagged ones don't even have all the headers referenced in the
code |
| 22:57.38 |
brlcad |
for a while,
mike used to say he'd just cat all the files together and pipe it
to the compiler |
| 22:58.01 |
``Erik |
heh, I
suppose that's one way... provided your headers are correctly
gaurded |
| 22:58.32 |
brlcad |
properly
guarded and/or only included once |
| 22:59.10 |
``Erik |
included once
in a C file, perhaps, but if two files include, say, stdio.h ...
and it's not properly gaurded *shrug* |
| 22:59.24 |
``Erik |
I tried to
compile some of the earlier stuff, but the systems have changed too
much |
| 22:59.34 |
brlcad |
welp.. got a
really preliminary gross rough estimate vgr for mjm |
| 22:59.35 |
``Erik |
I couldn't
even get an early jove to compile, and that had a
makefile |
| 22:59.45 |
``Erik |
all cores lit
up? |
| 22:59.53 |
``Erik |
did it break
100k? |
| 23:00.13 |
brlcad |
I haven't
done the distribution yet |
| 23:00.32 |
``Erik |
be
interesting to render a HUGE image and walk the cpu count to get a
scalability set |
| 23:00.35 |
brlcad |
if it scaled
perfectly linearly, and presuming the node I used was even
representative ... |
| 23:00.55 |
brlcad |
which of
course it won't |
| 23:00.57 |
brlcad |
but if it
did |
| 23:00.59 |
``Erik |
for count in
`jot 5000` ; do ./ rt ... |
| 23:01.00 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 23:01.04 |
brlcad |
the vgr would
be |
| 23:01.08 |
brlcad |
*drumroll* |
| 23:01.14 |
``Erik |
get on with
it |
| 23:01.15 |
brlcad |
8897900 |
| 23:01.20 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 23:01.32 |
``Erik |
I'd still
like to see the scalability graph |
| 23:01.40 |
brlcad |
yep, that's
next |
| 23:01.51 |
brlcad |
if it hits
half that, I'll be amazed |
| 23:01.58 |
``Erik |
at that many
cores? hell yeah |
| 23:02.08 |
``Erik |
um, it's a
cluster, so that'd be remrt? |
| 23:02.12 |
brlcad |
though I'm
talking with msrc now to see if I can schedule interactive on the
entire cluster at some point |
| 23:02.44 |
``Erik |
they're upset
that their resources aren't be used as much as they think they
should |
| 23:02.44 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
I'm going to give the batch system a try |
| 23:03.07 |
brlcad |
the new hawk
system is freaking sweet |
| 23:03.19 |
brlcad |
that 'should'
hit top 25 in the top500 |
| 23:03.29 |
``Erik |
hawk? |
| 23:03.43 |
brlcad |
new 9000
processor altix |
| 23:03.55 |
``Erik |
ah...
wow... |
| 23:04.04 |
brlcad |
18x512
iirc |
| 23:04.08 |
``Erik |
those are
still being purchased? |
| 23:04.31 |
``Erik |
does intels
cc do decent vliw optimizations yet? |
| 23:04.38 |
``Erik |
gcc's output
on those suck |
| 23:04.39 |
brlcad |
afaik, or
purchased and being installed already from the sounds of
it |
| 23:05.28 |
brlcad |
last I tested
icc vs gcc on altix, it kicked gcc's ass, but only with
-gen_prof/-gen_use |
| 23:05.42 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:05.52 |
``Erik |
brute force
finding of optimization paths? O.o |
| 23:05.58 |
brlcad |
that was a
couple years ago, and in all fairness didn't try gcc's dual pass
opt |
| 23:06.18 |
``Erik |
uhhh, what's
that compiler company twingy was working with? uh, f
something... |
| 23:06.35 |
brlcad |
yeah,
eliminate all the branchs by at least making all the first guesses
correct |
| 23:06.48 |
brlcad |
dunno |
| 23:07.31 |
``Erik |
they had a
compiler out and their claim was that if any compiler produced
faster code, it was a bug... they had a funky script that went
through every permutation of optimization flags to achieve that, if
I understood correctly |
| 23:07.51 |
``Erik |
and, uh,
adrt/tie came out faster using gcc than their stuff
hehehhe |
| 23:08.02 |
brlcad |
and remrt
isn't particularly awesome, though the amount of data being
transferred is exceptionally minimal (just the ray out and pixel
results back), so it really doesn't do too bad a job |
| 23:08.17 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 23:08.24 |
brlcad |
it's more a
pita to set up as it was never designed for ease of use -- it was
designed to get some jobs crunched out some year |
| 23:08.32 |
brlcad |
whilest
making movies |
| 23:08.33 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 23:08.53 |
``Erik |
so every
transaction is a single ray/pixel handshake? |
| 23:09.09 |
``Erik |
bundling up
sets would probably help a lot |
| 23:09.16 |
brlcad |
no, it has
batching |
| 23:09.20 |
``Erik |
okie |
| 23:09.34 |
``Erik |
but
tcp/ip? |
| 23:10.01 |
``Erik |
at some
point, the latency and stack overhead will overshadow the cost of
just doing it :/ |
| 23:10.18 |
``Erik |
oh, I turned
off the 're-use pix data' in rt... |
| 23:10.33 |
``Erik |
after my
bsd/vax adventure, I might try wiring the bu_image_save() stuff
into rt |
| 23:10.43 |
``Erik |
but vax is
more fun :D |
| 23:11.57 |
``Erik |
shoot,I
forgot to email dwayne to let him know where a clone enabled
install is |
| 23:12.58 |
``Erik |
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:6129
hehhe one of those doesn't belong... or... does it? |
| 23:13.48 |
``Erik |
(that page is
work safe, btu most of the site is not) |
| 23:13.58 |
brlcad |
i saw the
reuse bit.. should rip the code out and annotate news |
| 23:14.11 |
brlcad |
make sure
there arent other outliers |
| 23:14.25 |
brlcad |
related to
automatic restart |
| 23:15.11 |
``Erik |
yeah... I did
the #if 0 trick... wanna be slow about removing possibly used
functionality :/ |
| 23:16.17 |
brlcad |
that's not
exactly slow .. as good as ripping it out to the user
:) |
| 23:16.24 |
brlcad |
i mean, it's
in cvs |
| 23:16.34 |
brlcad |
if it need to
be reverted, it can be on a dime |
| 23:17.28 |
``Erik |
meh
*shrug* |
| 23:18.21 |
brlcad |
plus next
release is minor ver #, so good time for it |
| 23:18.54 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
I'd think we should just leave it on with a bu_log'd deprecation
message to see if anyone notices |
| 23:19.41 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:20.27 |
``Erik |
I'm doing an
update to gut it... personally, I'd probably go with a bu_log() and
have it disabled... or mebbe a bu_bomb() to get someone actually
talking to us |
| 23:25.41 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:25.47 |
``Erik |
domo arigato
mr roboto |
| 23:26.30 |
``Erik |
ah, unicode
math symbols |
| 23:27.46 |
starseeker |
They're sort
of the "Duke Nukem Forever" of the scientific software
world... |
| 23:32.42 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 23:32.52 |
``Erik |
read a
webcomic recently about halo three, uhhhhhhh |
| 23:32.59 |
``Erik |
lemme find
it |
| 23:33.14 |
louipc |
"Take me,
Robert!" sighed the forty-five year old construction worker as the
tripe-fondling construction worker diddled her moist ear lobes and
augured his swinish gusher into her dusty appendix
scar. |
| 23:34.35 |
``Erik |
http://godmodeonline.com/d/20070924.html |
| 23:34.46 |
Twingy |
pathscale |
| 23:39.04 |
``Erik |
yeahhhhh,
them, amusing stuff :) compilers are fun O.o |
| 23:39.40 |
``Erik |
twingy, didja
get that fpga chunking along? the development softwawre was all
lame and I think they wanted you to buy a real license to really
use it... |
| 23:40.41 |
``Erik |
not to
mention the windowsyness of it all |
| 23:53.00 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH and
DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH so that we can find tcl/tk prior to
installation |
| 01:52.50 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:06.57 |
yukonbob |
?what's
btclsh for |
| 02:07.59 |
brlcad |
it's a tclsh
that has the brl-cad extensions preloaded |
| 02:08.53 |
brlcad |
e.g. run
"bu_brlcad_data ." in btclsh |
| 02:09.00 |
brlcad |
it'll show
you were the data path is |
| 02:09.00 |
yukonbob |
so that's why
it's linked against libtclcad... is that the only way to get
libtclcad functionality, or is it possible to load libtclcad into
tclsh via package require? |
| 02:09.30 |
brlcad |
hm, I believe
you could do a direct "load libtclcad.so" |
| 02:09.47 |
brlcad |
not sure if
it'd need some pkgIndex.tcl or other Init() function,
though |
| 02:09.50 |
``Erik |
if a require
could snarf up C code very easily, I'd imagine 'wish' would not be
a standalone binary? *shrug* |
| 02:10.28 |
yukonbob |
"wish" is a
convenience name... you can just as well run tclsh and package
require tk. |
| 02:10.44 |
brlcad |
it
auto-creates the top-level window too |
| 02:10.44 |
``Erik |
aight,
*shrug* I'm not a tcl guy |
| 02:10.57 |
brlcad |
so you can
just start packing |
| 02:11.01 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: so
will package require tk ;) |
| 02:11.02 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:11.07 |
brlcad |
it
does? |
| 02:11.29 |
brlcad |
ah, so it
does |
| 02:11.35 |
brlcad |
learn
something new every day |
| 02:11.43 |
``Erik |
hum,
heh, |
| 02:11.43 |
``Erik |
% package
require tk |
| 02:11.43 |
``Erik |
can't find
package tk |
| 02:11.46 |
brlcad |
Tk |
| 02:11.46 |
yukonbob |
Tk |
| 02:11.50 |
``Erik |
okie |
| 02:12.31 |
``Erik |
it might be
possible to eliminate btclsh (or make it a 2 line tcl program) then
*shrug* :) |
| 02:12.52 |
brlcad |
simh
ftw! |
| 02:13.07 |
``Erik |
hrm? |
| 02:13.13 |
brlcad |
just reading
the backlog |
| 02:13.20 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:13.27 |
``Erik |
yeah, I wanna
spin kermit up with a phone call |
| 02:13.43 |
yukonbob |
I'm stripping
as much from the build as possible on my tcl/tk8.4 quest to use
local libs... and it's currently puking on btclsh, but like ``Erik
just said, it might be easily skipped... |
| 02:15.09 |
yukonbob |
does mged use
btclsh? |
| 02:15.13 |
brlcad |
no |
| 02:15.20 |
``Erik |
mged wires
straight to libtcl |
| 02:15.32 |
brlcad |
mged is its
own interpreter |
| 02:15.49 |
``Erik |
TclInterp out
the wazoo in src/mged/ :) |
| 02:15.58 |
brlcad |
rather, with
an embedded tcl interpreter integrated with mged's own processing
loop |
| 02:16.05 |
``Erik |
just one?
heh |
| 02:16.13 |
brlcad |
just
one.. |
| 02:16.27 |
yukonbob |
so, might one
be able to build the brl-cad suite w/o btclsh and still be
reasonably functional? |
| 02:16.34 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 02:16.43 |
``Erik |
completely
functional as far as I can tell |
| 02:16.54 |
yukonbob |
rock'n'roll... |
| 02:16.59 |
brlcad |
not
completely, stand-alone rtwizard uses it |
| 02:17.07 |
``Erik |
ah,
ok |
| 02:17.20 |
``Erik |
is there a
reason rtwizard couldn't use, say, mged -c ? |
| 02:17.26 |
brlcad |
the prep in
the tclscripts dir will fail without it, so it'll rely on the
existing precomputed results |
| 02:18.09 |
``Erik |
(and
actually... getting back to the original issue... btclsh will link
against system libtcl iirc) |
| 02:18.13 |
yukonbob |
are those
script doing CAD-ish stuff, or only Tcl-ish stuff? |
| 02:18.24 |
``Erik |
src/btclsh/
is a pretty light directory |
| 02:18.43 |
``Erik |
er |
| 02:18.46 |
``Erik |
src/bwish |
| 02:18.54 |
yukonbob |
but if I've
already got Tcl installed, I've got tclsh, and could just 'load
libtclcad' and get "btclsh". |
| 02:19.05 |
``Erik |
I mean, about
a thousand lines of code for both btclsh and bwish |
| 02:19.10 |
yukonbob |
(if that in
fact works...) |
| 02:19.32 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
rtwizard just does tclish stuff iirc |
| 02:19.54 |
brlcad |
i'm not
*certain* you can just load libtclcad .. never tried it |
| 02:20.11 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: never
a better time than the present... |
| 02:20.16 |
brlcad |
but in theory
at least you should be able to, or at least come close to that
after adding the hooks |
| 02:20.20 |
``Erik |
blaze a
trail, yukon :D see if it's possible, explore it! |
| 02:21.04 |
brlcad |
i imagine it
won't work outright simply because there's nothing that says what
function(s) it needs to invoke, and how to get access to the
functions the lib provides |
| 02:21.34 |
brlcad |
when mged
uses it, it just calls the function in C-land, and it gets passed
the already created interpreter |
| 02:25.24 |
brlcad |
woo hoo,
.bz's ISP agreed to let me keep my bandwidth at the same price ..
so looks like I'll be doing the upgrade after all |
| 02:25.59 |
brlcad |
``Erik: any
special setup requests/suggestions (w.r.t. freebsd)? likely choose
stable 6 otherwise |
| 02:32.22 |
``Erik |
a modern 6
(6.2-stable) is a good place for an os to be |
| 02:32.52 |
``Erik |
my request is
not letting it go so outdated that updated ports fail :D and of
course, I have 8 zillion ports I'd strongly recommend |
| 02:33.13 |
``Erik |
portmanager,
portaudit, uh, uptimed, ... bash cuz I'm lame... |
| 02:34.13 |
``Erik |
but, hey,
it's your box :) if you want, I'll help where I can, but I aint'
got no final say, yo |
| 02:35.43 |
``Erik |
awesome that
they're grandfathering you in |
| 02:36.23 |
``Erik |
might make it
worth putting effort into putting up some fun simh with anonymous
telnet (throttled, of course) |
| 02:37.41 |
brlcad |
it moved to 6
within just a month or two of getting installed |
| 02:38.46 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
you've seen as much of the port upgrades as I have .. there were at
least 6 full-port updates over the last two years |
| 02:39.13 |
brlcad |
and only that
infrequent because they became harder and harder to do |
| 02:39.35 |
brlcad |
I think I'll
pay the extra per month and upgrade the net link as
well |
| 02:46.03 |
``Erik |
5.21 was more
than 6mo before 6.0... like, 18 months |
| 02:46.33 |
brlcad |
i mean, it
was the end of the stable line |
| 02:46.42 |
brlcad |
then a month
or two later, it swapped to 6 |
| 03:10.37 |
``Erik |
5.3 and 5.4
were stables before 6.0 went stable |
| 03:10.46 |
``Erik |
and there's a
5.5 out, too |
| 03:25.23 |
yukonbob |
libtool:
link: warning: library
`/usr/pkgsrc/bch/brlcad/work/.buildlink/lib/tcl/itk3.3/libitk33.la'
was moved. |
| 03:25.42 |
yukonbob |
means |
| 03:25.42 |
yukonbob |
... building
mged... |
| 03:26.10 |
yukonbob |
I got similar
when I was building bwish (which I've now just skipped), but I _do_
want mged... |
| 03:51.41 |
``Erik |
'was moved'?
O.o |
| 03:52.27 |
yukonbob |
ya -- it's
weird -- ..and then I get some basic Xlib (I think) missing
references -- might be a pkgsrc thing -- I just updated my Makefile
to see what shakes out... |
| 03:52.50 |
yukonbob |
do you know
what it means? (/me guesses "no" based on your eyes O.o |
| 03:52.52 |
yukonbob |
) |
| 03:52.59 |
brlcad |
it probably
really was moved, something pkgsrc is doing maybe (where it was
compiled for one path, but finally put into another, then libs
linked with it in the final location) |
| 03:53.35 |
yukonbob |
the .la looks
"normal" to me, though... |
| 03:53.47 |
yukonbob |
just failed
again... get ready for short flood: |
| 03:53.50 |
brlcad |
it means what
I wrote in the parenthetical .. which would be either an unclean
build, or it really was moved, or you're getting something to link
against two different itk33 libs |
| 03:53.54 |
``Erik |
um |
| 03:53.57 |
``Erik |
pastebin.bzflag.bz |
| 03:55.38 |
yukonbob |
http://www.pastebin.ca/725142 |
| 03:57.54 |
``Erik |
hrmmmm what
os again? debian/ubuntu? |
| 03:58.25 |
yukonbob |
netbsd |
| 03:58.31 |
``Erik |
O.o
hrm |
| 03:58.54 |
brlcad |
it's missing
-Xi |
| 03:58.58 |
brlcad |
er,
-lXi |
| 03:59.10 |
``Erik |
what lib is,
say, XOpenDevice in there? pehaps Xi? |
| 03:59.11 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:59.13 |
``Erik |
beat me to
it |
| 04:00.35 |
brlcad |
that should
be fixed on head already |
| 04:01.01 |
brlcad |
assuming you
really do have a usable Xi and that our test isn't
flawed |
| 04:01.11 |
yukonbob |
we'll find
out ;) |
| 04:01.38 |
brlcad |
grep X_LIBS
Makefile |
| 04:01.43 |
brlcad |
what does it
report? |
| 04:02.14 |
yukonbob |
is building
... 1 sec. |
| 04:02.35 |
brlcad |
Tk
functionality test also includes Tcl |
| 04:02.48 |
brlcad |
the Tk lib
test is an independent symbol search |
| 04:02.58 |
brlcad |
shouldn't
need tcl for that |
| 04:03.25 |
brlcad |
(if you did,
pretty much all the lib symbol tests would fail for more than a
dozen libs) |
| 04:09.07 |
yukonbob |
thx. for help
w/ all this folks -- I hope something good comes of it for both of
us ;) |
| 04:09.45 |
yukonbob |
brl-cad
supermodel edition *Now Less Calories!!* |
| 04:10.04 |
yukonbob |
actually
"supermodel" is a good name, in this case... |
| 04:10.13 |
yukonbob |
(tm)! |
| 04:11.56 |
yukonbob |
so, is archer
X11 too, or just Win/Mac? |
| 04:12.41 |
louipc |
it's buggy in
linux |
| 04:13.05 |
louipc |
well buggy to
the point I can't get anything other than a little grey
box |
| 04:13.12 |
yukonbob |
where linux
== linux/bsd/solaris/*nix -- or just linux? |
| 04:13.35 |
louipc |
I don't have
those other *nix so i couldn't say |
| 04:13.48 |
louipc |
but that
would seem like a logical assumption |
| 04:14.03 |
yukonbob |
is tcl/tk,
fltk, gtk, other? |
| 04:14.33 |
louipc |
tcl/tk |
| 04:15.14 |
yukonbob |
idea is it's
primarily WIMP interface, vs. mged's keyboarding? |
| 04:15.46 |
louipc |
I hope it has
command line! |
| 04:25.56 |
yukonbob |
!yaY |
| 04:53.15 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
archer is pure tcl/tk |
| 04:53.33 |
yukonbob |
nice... what
are the plans for mged? |
| 04:53.47 |
brlcad |
louipc: I
just fixed archer a couple days ago... it should work everywhere
now if I got took care of all the loading issues |
| 04:54.37 |
brlcad |
archer
actually includes a half embedded and half-rewritten
mged |
| 04:55.06 |
louipc |
oh
sweet |
| 04:55.16 |
yukonbob |
where did the
name "archer" come from? |
| 04:55.16 |
brlcad |
it was a
prototype interface intended to maybe some day replace mged or at
least show what's possible even via tcl/tk with a different style
gui |
| 04:55.45 |
brlcad |
it was part
of this joint (army, navy, air force) SBIR funded project called
"Crossbow" |
| 04:56.03 |
brlcad |
archer was
one of the tools in the project, one of several similarly named
tools |
| 04:56.08 |
yukonbob |
ahh |
| 04:56.29 |
yukonbob |
arrow,
target, robinhood, apple? |
| 04:56.44 |
brlcad |
the project
dealt with vulnerability/lethality calculations, so naming it with
things that throw projectiles was quite appropriate |
| 04:56.52 |
louipc |
the marines
don't need cad eh? |
| 04:57.10 |
brlcad |
marines don't
do research :) |
| 04:57.16 |
yukonbob |
heh |
| 04:58.14 |
brlcad |
archer still
keeps a command console, with most of the core mged commands still
available, and shows how things could work with various tabbed
information panels, gui buttons, and more |
| 04:58.27 |
brlcad |
navy uses
brl-cad |
| 04:59.43 |
brlcad |
they're just
late to the V/L game, it took a catastrophic event like a ship
bombing to get them thinking about paying more attention to their
vulnerabilites |
| 05:01.46 |
louipc |
I'd have
thought that would be the first thing you'd think of when building
any type of military vehicle heh |
| 05:02.41 |
yukonbob |
louipc: are
you a brl-cad dev? |
| 05:03.06 |
louipc |
nope just an
interloper |
| 05:03.13 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 05:03.48 |
brlcad |
louipc: it
was federally mandated that everyone *has* to think about it before
vehicles go into use |
| 05:04.01 |
brlcad |
but the level
of that thought varies widely, as do the needs |
| 05:04.20 |
brlcad |
the V/L
characteristics of a ship vs. a plane vs. a tank are *massively*
different |
| 05:04.38 |
brlcad |
i mean, if a
plane is hit, it's pretty much a critical kill |
| 05:04.59 |
brlcad |
if a tank is
hit, it very well might actually bounce off |
| 05:05.21 |
yukonbob |
is that a
function of the plane/tank, or just their geometric properties,
though? |
| 05:05.46 |
louipc |
both I
think |
| 05:05.48 |
yukonbob |
tank ==
thicker angled armour, plane == thin aluminum tubes or carbon
fiber, etc. |
| 05:05.50 |
brlcad |
depends on
both, and varies heavily asset to asset |
| 05:05.59 |
brlcad |
as well as
the threat |
| 05:07.08 |
louipc |
like the tail
prop of a chopper is a critical yet delicate part. if that's taken
out the whole thing comes down.. even if the rest is
intact |
| 05:07.41 |
yukonbob |
well, brlcad
wouldn't know that, though, would it? |
| 05:07.43 |
brlcad |
either way,
the vast *majority* of all V/L analyses are used by a single code
that directly hooks into BRL-CAD for geometric analyses answering
questions like "what components are along this shotline", so the
more V/L work going on, the more folks (in DoD) are using BRL-CAD
(directly and indirectly) |
| 05:08.18 |
louipc |
brlcad does
the modelling... |
| 05:08.56 |
brlcad |
the modeling,
and the *geometric* analysis (which is almost entirely what drives
the *V/L* analyses, which then add in their own
algoritms) |
| 05:09.34 |
brlcad |
they deal
with the physics of penetrations, simulating interactions,
velocities, energy, etc .. BRL-CAD answers all the questions about
the geometry |
| 05:10.33 |
brlcad |
like what
material is the object, where is it physically, what regions is it
comprised of, what mass/volume/moments/etc does it have, how thick
is something from a given angle, what's along a shotline,
etc |
| 05:11.03 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
cool, was there much backport changes? |
| 05:11.23 |
yukonbob |
mostly the
build process... though I've only been running it ~30s |
| 05:11.34 |
brlcad |
no tcl/code
changes? |
| 05:11.39 |
yukonbob |
not
yet. |
| 05:12.00 |
yukonbob |
... but if
it's OK with you, I'd really appreciate 8.4 support, and can help
w/ determining needs to that end... |
| 05:12.45 |
yukonbob |
(where
support == consideration in future code for 8.4 compat) |
| 05:13.27 |
brlcad |
I could
possibly motivate/convince a back-port to 8.4 to the folks that
will care, but I'd need to know the exact steps/patching needed and
test it myself first |
| 05:16.04 |
yukonbob |
btw, 'load
...libtclcad.so' yields "couldn't find procedure
Tclcad_Init". |
| 05:16.08 |
louipc |
is tcl beta
in brlcad now? |
| 05:18.22 |
brlcad |
ah, cool --
figured they'd auto-search for some _Init() function |
| 05:18.31 |
brlcad |
no, beta's
not in yet |
| 05:18.49 |
brlcad |
wanna add it?
:) |
| 05:19.32 |
louipc |
:D |
| 05:20.03 |
louipc |
I'd love to
but other things are grabbing my time |
| 05:21.30 |
yukonbob |
now my rtarea
works, presumably so will rtedge, among others ;) |
| 05:23.03 |
yukonbob |
wireframe in
mged gfx window seems slower (compared to 7.8.x) -- anybody else
notice this? |
| 05:23.15 |
yukonbob |
*slower
rotation w/ x,y,z |
| 05:25.56 |
yukonbob |
for arb*,
does it matter what order the points are entered? |
| 05:41.17 |
brlcad |
yes, it
does |
| 05:41.33 |
brlcad |
gfx may
actually be slower if you compile optimized vs
non-optimized |
| 05:41.41 |
brlcad |
or
with/without opengl |
| 05:41.57 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
it's all in your head |
| 05:42.19 |
brlcad |
it reports a
fps in the faceplate |
| 05:42.32 |
brlcad |
(on the misc
options in the menu) |
| 06:14.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-81-225.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:09.46 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 07:20.12 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:41.18 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 11:48.48 |
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| 12:35.12 |
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| 13:59.28 |
``Erik |
unthrottled.... |
| 13:59.28 |
``Erik |
Abs vgr2
2261.62 1051.17 809.07 771.05 1003.79 1179.34 |
| 13:59.29 |
``Erik |
*vgr vgr2
16.50 15.67 14.42 14.44 14.19 15.04 |
| 14:32.41 |
Z80-Boy |
Now the Ronja
videos are recompiled without the flashes and uploaded to the Ronja
page, woohoo :) |
| 14:33.42 |
archivist |
one for
``Erik as a connesiur of amusing pics
http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive8/2005-05-14_butttrumpet.html |
| 14:51.33 |
Maloeran |
Argh, please
don't post stuff like that |
| 15:05.49 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 15:16.48 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:16.59 |
``Erik |
I'll assume
it's not work safe and will avoid opening it O.o |
| 15:20.13 |
``Erik |
such awesome
hardware, with 45 minute renderings |
| 15:30.31 |
archivist |
a motorcycle,
a bare butt, a can of beans and a traffic cone |
| 15:31.00 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-023-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:33.18 |
``Erik |
that,
um... |
| 15:33.19 |
``Erik |
uh... |
| 16:48.35 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:53.40 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
basically all ronja models - including those with complicated
screws - render fast |
| 16:53.54 |
Z80-Boy |
except for 2
models where a screw is cut apart, which render orders of magnitude
slower |
| 16:53.59 |
Z80-Boy |
Isn't that
suspicious? |
| 16:54.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Even when the
screw actually occupies only tiny fraction of the
picture |
| 17:04.18 |
``Erik |
how is it
cut? |
| 17:04.43 |
``Erik |
the 'cut'
primitive can make things really really really slow |
| 17:05.27 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
guess I wasn't here 'in a few minutes' lol. |
| 17:05.27 |
Z80-Boy |
it's a
boolean operation |
| 17:05.27 |
Z80-Boy |
with a
rpp |
| 17:05.27 |
Z80-Boy |
either
subtract or and, both slow |
| 17:05.49 |
``Erik |
hum,
depending on how the tree is built, you might be doing way more
weaves than you need to be |
| 17:10.53 |
``Erik |
(and brlcad
probably wont' be here for several hours... he might even be too
busy until mondayish) |
| 17:11.15 |
MinuteElectron |
screwin @
me |
| 17:18.15 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 17:21.46 |
yukonbob |
http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.png |
| 18:56.14 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-91-179.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:47.31 |
``Erik |
nifty, looks
like vgr was running around 345Kips |
| 19:58.02 |
dtidrow_work |
I forget -
what does the benchmark program summary mean again? |
| 20:02.40 |
``Erik |
um, which
part? |
| 20:02.55 |
``Erik |
the vgr
bit? |
| 20:03.20 |
dtidrow_work |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.23 |
dtidrow_work |
arg |
| 20:03.35 |
``Erik |
oh, heh
:D |
| 20:03.49 |
``Erik |
the Abs line
is second sof computation for each image, then the mean |
| 20:03.53 |
dtidrow_work |
that stuff -
let me get the recent one from my lappy |
| 20:04.05 |
``Erik |
the *vgr line
is how many vgr's worth of unf that is |
| 20:04.19 |
``Erik |
where vgr was
a vax 11/780 running BSD 4.2/4.3 |
| 20:04.47 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 20:04.51 |
dtidrow_work |
Abs
localhost.localdomain 1035035.81 467863.48 482449.25
374872.08 513705.77 540954.26 569146.77 Sat Jun
30 14:15:09 EDT 2007 |
| 20:04.51 |
dtidrow_work |
*vgr
localhost.localdomain 7554.45 6976.78 8604.40 7025.33 7267.02
36.49 6244.07 |
| 20:04.52 |
``Erik |
vgr2 is a
simulated 11/780 running 4.3BSD, I'm trying to tune the sim to give
me the same results as the old hw |
| 20:05.11 |
dtidrow_work |
that's the
laptop benchmark |
| 20:05.17 |
``Erik |
you should
have a summary file that explains all the results |
| 20:05.38 |
dtidrow_work |
hmmm, the
'summay' file just had what I pasted |
| 20:05.47 |
``Erik |
there should
be a lot more in it O.o |
| 20:06.10 |
``Erik |
sorry, I'm
wrong |
| 20:06.53 |
``Erik |
when ya ran
'make benchmark', it should've printed all that out... |
| 20:06.58 |
``Erik |
mebbe in your
run- log? |
| 20:09.08 |
``Erik |
here's what
my run log for my desktop looks like... http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/mbef4b9d |
| 20:22.51 |
dtidrow_work |
ah, looks
like I clobbered the binaries to free up some disk space - and
probably killed the log file along with it |
| 20:23.05 |
``Erik |
'make clean'
will delete the .log and .pix files |
| 20:25.21 |
dtidrow_work |
``Erik: how
many cpus are on the box for that pastebin link? |
| 20:26.18 |
``Erik |
um, 8
cores... two quad-core intel thingies |
| 20:27.01 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 20:27.17 |
``Erik |
it does like
27000 vgr's when optimized |
| 20:27.27 |
dtidrow_work |
w00t! |
| 20:28.17 |
dtidrow_work |
wonder what
the quad-core AMD's are gonna do... |
| 20:32.26 |
``Erik |
I think my
dual two-core 2.0ghz opteron gets around 11500ish? |
| 20:34.56 |
dtidrow_work |
so the first
number in the '*vgr' line is how many vgr's your box compares
to? |
| 20:35.34 |
``Erik |
no, um,
well... only for moss.g |
| 20:35.42 |
``Erik |
the last one
is the average |
| 20:35.48 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 20:36.32 |
``Erik |
it's
bench/run.sh if you wanna poke |
| 20:39.20 |
``Erik |
<-- has no
clue why you only got 36 vgr's on sphflake O.o |
| 21:23.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (90 files in 11 dirs):
Upgrade to 1.2.21. Fixes several bugs introduced in 1.2.19,
possible overflows, and has some code cleanup. |
| 22:10.03 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877B93.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:20.39 |
*** join/#brlcad cad53
(n=8614cf1d@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:42.45 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: include deprecation.txt in
dist |
| 02:07.43 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:24.45 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 04:52.30 |
brlcad |
the baseline
for sphereflake isn't normalized to the vax |
| 04:53.00 |
brlcad |
that's part
of why it's pretty exciting getting a baseline vgr of 1 again so
that sphflake can be renormalized |
| 04:55.37 |
poolio |
So is legacy
code always going to be a part of BRL-CAD so you can establish a
baseline vgr? |
| 04:56.39 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: you
see my report about the artifacts still there w/ the rotated pipe
(using latest (few hours old) HEAD (7.10.3)) |
| 04:57.37 |
brlcad |
poolio: no,
the code has already changed quite dramatically .. but the baseline
can still be run -- just using the old sources and/or old
binaries |
| 04:57.47 |
brlcad |
the harder
part is getting access to a vax :) |
| 04:57.58 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yeah, I saw, but havne't looked at that |
| 04:58.15 |
brlcad |
i'm not
exceptionally familiar with the pipe code .. that's more john's
area |
| 04:58.31 |
yukonbob |
so long as it
gets to where it needs to be... |
| 04:58.35 |
brlcad |
knee-jerk
reaction is "don't do that" :) |
| 04:59.24 |
yukonbob |
heh -- I can
shake the artifacts off w/ rot 0 1 0;rot 0 -1 0 |
| 05:00.37 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
'summary' just retains the latest performance summary with the
first line being a "Ray Trace Figure of Merit" (RTFM) that sort of
amounts to rays per second, and the second line being the linear
metric comparison to the base (called vgr) which amounts to how
many VAX 11/780's you're machine's worth
computationally |
| 05:00.42 |
yukonbob |
so I'm
running 7.10.3 -- is that the latest fully buildable version -- you
mentioned 7.11 was branched, but it's really near the start of it's
life isn't it (only a few files present)? |
| 05:01.17 |
brlcad |
yeah, 7.10.3
is the latest, 7.11 is what's on head now, but it's not changed wrt
pipes |
| 05:01.54 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
are |
| 05:02.06 |
yukonbob |
have fun in
California |
| 05:02.14 |
brlcad |
looks like
it's just a refresh of the display list needed |
| 05:03.02 |
brlcad |
i.e., it's
not "really" shifted like that .. just displaying the wireframe
wrong |
| 05:03.30 |
yukonbob |
in 7.8.3 at
least, unloading/reloading the db preserved the bad display... was
weird. |
| 05:37.10 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03mm_202 * r238 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientCommands.cpp: Fixed the
op()/deop() bug. sf.net bug 1807356. |
| 05:56.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-91-179.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:42.15 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 09:08.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:15.22 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: looks
like now something changed in brl-cad. |
| 09:15.40 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
because I did CVS update and now it renders the "poisonous"
ronja_new better. |
| 09:15.52 |
Z80-Boy |
Before the
arbn was missing in the triangular plate |
| 09:16.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Now it's
present but is bigger than should be |
| 09:16.12 |
Z80-Boy |
Looks like it
has again something to do with unnormalized equation |
| 09:16.38 |
Z80-Boy |
Because the
one boundary plane that is placed too much out is the one that was
entered as not normalized . |
| 09:25.23 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 10:12.57 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03mm_202 * r239 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Some minor
clean and typo fixes. |
| 10:51.50 |
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*** join/#brlcad _jack-
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| 17:04.35 |
brlcad |
having
trouble _jack- ? |
| 17:05.22 |
*** join/#brlcad _jack-
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 17:05.33 |
*** kick/#brlcad [_jack-!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad]
by brlcad (brlcad) |
| 17:06.07 |
*** join/#brlcad _jack-
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| 17:11.08 |
yukonbob |
you in Cali
now? |
| 17:21.34 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 17:21.52 |
brlcad |
i'm 70%,
landed in Pheonix AZ .. |
| 17:21.59 |
brlcad |
and it looks
like my flight to san jose is now delayed by at least an
hour |
| 17:23.36 |
Maloeran |
Neat, are you
going there on vacation? |
| 17:25.12 |
brlcad |
nah, google's
sending me out for the summer of code summit |
| 17:25.23 |
MinuteElectron |
google? |
| 17:25.27 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 17:25.33 |
MinuteElectron |
neat |
| 17:25.37 |
Maloeran |
Ah,
interesting |
| 17:26.29 |
brlcad |
they'll be a
rep from about 70% of the projects that participated: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/ |
| 17:27.05 |
MinuteElectron |
I can't wait
until SoC 2008, maybe that time I will actually find out about it
in time to participate in a project. |
| 17:27.09 |
brlcad |
there are a
few devs I know in AU that are coming in for the summit too,
looking forward to it |
| 17:27.16 |
brlcad |
... though
going to AU is way cooler ;) |
| 17:27.40 |
MinuteElectron |
indeed |
| 17:28.14 |
Maloeran |
:) I'll be
going alone despites getting married in just 8 days, but I sure
need the vacation and she's busy with her studies
anyhow |
| 17:28.31 |
brlcad |
do you have a
big countdown clock? |
| 17:28.36 |
brlcad |
the beginning
of the end of your life ;) |
| 17:29.08 |
Maloeran |
Eheh |
| 19:52.23 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
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| 20:24.01 |
*** join/#brlcad jgay
(n=jgay__@c-71-233-31-177.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.14 |
jgay |
hi, i'm from
the Free Software Foundation, and we are thinking of puting BRL-CAD
on our urgent list of software to be developed. Could anyone field
a few questions? |
| 20:27.12 |
MinuteElectron |
Most of the
people who hang around here are in and out all the time. brlcad is
your main man but a few others have experience too. |
| 20:27.54 |
jgay |
MinuteElectron, cool. My questions are
simple, though. Mainly, I was just wondering how active the project
is |
| 20:28.38 |
MinuteElectron |
``Erik: You
here? |
| 20:29.50 |
jgay |
I mean, it
seems like the best free software CAD program out there. And, it
seems like the only one that is actively being developed. But, I'm
not the best judge. |
| 20:30.37 |
jgay |
We generally
have success in finding new developers for projects, so, if there
is any advice on what kinds of developers you are looking for, etc,
that'd be good. |
| 20:30.58 |
MinuteElectron |
You might
have to wait a while, I don't really have the authority to answer
questions regarding such things. I am just the website
developer. |
| 20:31.45 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad is
currently on his way to California so probably won't be active for
a good few hours\days. |
| 20:32.14 |
jgay |
oh
ok |
| 20:32.20 |
dtidrow_work |
what's he
going out there for? |
| 20:32.34 |
MinuteElectron |
Google Summer
of Code 2008 summit. |
| 20:32.47 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 20:33.08 |
MinuteElectron |
s/2008/2007 |
| 20:33.19 |
jgay |
oh neat, did
brlcad do a project? |
| 20:33.19 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 20:33.31 |
dtidrow_work |
that's what I
was wondering |
| 20:33.33 |
MinuteElectron |
jgay: No,
BZFlag. |
| 20:33.34 |
jgay |
*mentor |
| 20:33.36 |
jgay |
oh
ok |
| 20:33.53 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad is the
project manager for both projects. |
| 20:35.00 |
jgay |
dtidrow_work,
can you tell me anything about the varius licenses. Is there a lot
under the BSD license, or is that just some random
bits? |
| 20:35.13 |
jgay |
I know it's
mostly under the LGPL, but I just want to survey what's
waht |
| 20:35.15 |
jgay |
*waht |
| 20:35.40 |
jgay |
MinuteElectron, neat . . . is he a
volunteer or is he part of the army research office? |
| 20:36.18 |
MinuteElectron |
He is part of
the army research office for BRL-CAD as far as I know, BZflag is
just a hobby IIRC. |
| 20:36.39 |
dtidrow_work |
jgay: dunno
about the BRL-CAD licensing details, that's more of a brlcad
question |
| 20:37.58 |
jgay |
dtidrow_work,
cool. Do youknow anything about how active the project is being
developed? |
| 20:38.06 |
jgay |
I will save
more detailed development questions for brlcad |
| 20:38.15 |
jgay |
like, what
things need help, etc |
| 20:39.14 |
dtidrow_work |
it's pretty
active - ARL has several developers working on it, IIUC |
| 20:40.03 |
jgay |
I can't
believe I didn't know about this project, sooner |
| 20:40.09 |
jgay |
I mean, it's
older than the GNU Project! |
| 20:40.28 |
dtidrow_work |
well, it
hasn't been GPL-ed for very long |
| 20:40.46 |
dtidrow_work |
4-5 years or
so |
| 20:41.15 |
dtidrow_work |
but the guts
have been worked on for something like 25-30 years |
| 20:42.50 |
dtidrow_work |
that's why
they still use a VAX 11/780 as the baseline to compare against -
gives them historical continuity |
| 20:43.19 |
jgay |
MinuteElectron, did you also do the
delta3d homepage? Both look great. |
| 20:43.33 |
jgay |
haha, nice,
VAX |
| 20:43.34 |
dtidrow_work |
high-end
desktop computers are nearly four orders of magnitude faster than
the old 780 |
| 20:44.14 |
dtidrow_work |
jgay: I need
to get back to messing around with delta3d |
| 20:44.28 |
dtidrow_work |
I mostly work
with OSG, which Delta3D is based on |
| 20:44.46 |
jgay |
is there a
relationship between these two projects? |
| 20:44.49 |
jgay |
what's
OSG? |
| 20:45.01 |
dtidrow_work |
OpenSceneGraph |
| 20:45.36 |
dtidrow_work |
kind of an
open-source Performer (if you know what Performer is
:-) |
| 20:48.04 |
jgay |
nope, don't
know what Performer is |
| 20:48.42 |
dtidrow_work |
do you know
what a scenegraph is, at least? |
| 20:49.29 |
MinuteElectron |
MinuteElectron: Oh, no. brlcad did all the
imagery, I did the coding. |
| 20:49.59 |
MinuteElectron |
There is a
new site though http://my.brlcad.org/ - not finished
yet. |
| 20:50.21 |
jgay |
i don't know
what a scenegraph is |
| 20:50.34 |
jgay |
I've never
had a programming job that involved a real GUI :-) |
| 20:51.26 |
jgay |
MinuteElectron: you just sent yourself a
message :-) |
| 20:51.33 |
louipc |
BRL-CAD
documentation has a special license 'BDL' |
| 20:51.40 |
louipc |
BSD
Documentation License |
| 20:51.46 |
MinuteElectron |
jgay: I know,
it was aimed at you lol./ |
| 20:51.46 |
jgay |
interesting |
| 20:51.57 |
louipc |
jgay: do you
have a copy of the code? |
| 20:52.01 |
jgay |
yeah |
| 20:52.08 |
jgay |
louipc |
| 20:53.10 |
louipc |
should be in
share/doc/legal |
| 20:53.10 |
dtidrow_work |
jgay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_graph |
| 20:53.16 |
louipc |
or sorry
doc/legal |
| 20:53.33 |
dtidrow_work |
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/scenegraph/
- better pics here |
| 20:53.37 |
jgay |
louipc, I
figured out the three licenses. I was just trying to get a real
sense of how much stuff is under the BSD |
| 20:54.10 |
louipc |
FSF is
anti-BSD eh? :P |
| 20:54.32 |
jgay |
louipc, well,
I wouldn't put it that way :-) |
| 20:55.19 |
MinuteElectron |
I gotta
run. |
| 20:56.13 |
louipc |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:56.14 |
louipc |
the geometric
models, images, and other data resources are also |
| 20:56.14 |
louipc |
provided
under the BSD license. Refer to each individual file
for |
| 20:56.17 |
louipc |
specific
terms. |
| 20:56.25 |
jgay |
louipc, ok,
cool, thanks! |
| 20:56.27 |
louipc |
and
buildfiles |
| 20:57.45 |
louipc |
it would be
awesome to get more devs sweet |
| 20:58.17 |
jgay |
louipc, yeah,
I hope we can get some. I am checking with my boss that we can go
ahead and make this a high priority project and put a call
out |
| 20:58.28 |
louipc |
jgay:
http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page |
| 20:58.36 |
louipc |
check out
that app too |
| 20:58.47 |
louipc |
that's on my
list of 'things that should be developed' :D |
| 20:59.10 |
louipc |
see.. I'm a
machinist hehe so these are apps I need/want |
| 20:59.18 |
jgay |
oh, neat
:-) |
| 20:59.24 |
jgay |
My friend is
doing this project: http://interreality.org/ |
| 20:59.28 |
jgay |
and he's
pretty far along with it |
| 20:59.35 |
jgay |
but that is
unrelated |
| 20:59.48 |
louipc |
ah
ok |
| 21:00.16 |
jgay |
louipc, I
don't think gcam will get on our high priority projects |
| 21:00.23 |
louipc |
cool, seems
more for entertainment |
| 21:00.40 |
louipc |
aww.. |
| 21:00.53 |
jgay |
louipc, he's
bad at marketing, it's pretty serious under the hood |
| 21:01.08 |
louipc |
there's no
good open source CAM software though :/ |
| 21:01.35 |
louipc |
you know what
I don't understand is that companies and schools would save TONS of
money on licensing fees if they got together and developed this
stuff |
| 21:01.46 |
jgay |
louipc, can't
you "just" throw a plug-in of sorts into brl-cad? |
| 21:02.10 |
louipc |
the license
for a single installation can be $20,000 or more |
| 21:02.33 |
jgay |
louipc, I
know, that's one of the things I want to start talking more about .
. . getting out to schools, ngos, companies, orgs, etc, and talk
about ways of pooling money and contributing to the development of
these great projects |
| 21:02.38 |
louipc |
plus $5000
for upgrades |
| 21:02.48 |
jgay |
it will take
some time, though, the FSF has a small staff and a lot of things we
are working on |
| 21:02.55 |
louipc |
and the
quality of the commercial stuff isn't always that great |
| 21:03.08 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 21:07.24 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
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| 21:08.06 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 21:08.52 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 21:09.39 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 21:10.43 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 21:11.14 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 21:11.59 |
*** join/#brlcad jackkkk
(i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) |
| 21:13.27 |
dtidrow_work |
hmmm, wonder
what's up with that |
| 21:13.37 |
louipc |
Excess
Flood |
| 21:26.51 |
dtidrow_work |
but why is it
happening? spam attack? |
| 21:27.29 |
archivist |
copy pasting
too large an amount |
| 21:27.32 |
Maloeran |
Someone got
broken scripts in his IRC client, probably |
| 21:30.22 |
dtidrow_work |
was thinking
it was some sort of bot spam attack |
| 21:33.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877D07.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:43.51 |
``Erik |
nah, probably
in too many channels |
| 21:44.15 |
``Erik |
happens to me
on efnet at times, like a dozen channel and if I get disconnected,
the autojoin on reconnect cycles me like that |
| 21:44.23 |
louipc |
oh yeah hah
ouch |
| 21:44.26 |
``Erik |
and then I
get banned for many months cuz mal doesn't listen when I msg
him |
| 21:44.27 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 21:48.49 |
``Erik |
heh, fsf
'urgent' project? O.o nutty |
| 21:49.15 |
Maloeran |
Hey Erik,
there was trep in #opengl asking for Scheme stuff |
| 21:49.39 |
Maloeran |
A very old
regular appearing from nowhere |
| 21:50.10 |
``Erik |
gcam is
pretty nifty stuff, and it can't just be a plugin for a cad system,
you have to actually figure out how to move the bit around... gcam
does it with a fem type simulator |
| 21:55.15 |
``Erik |
jgay: not
much code is under BSD (mostly stuff in the 'contrib' dir iirc)....
and http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 21:59.57 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-35-171.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:01.12 |
louipc |
fem =
? |
| 22:01.34 |
archivist |
finite
element modeling |
| 22:01.50 |
louipc |
``Erik: you
could build an app around BRL-CAD libs though eh? |
| 22:02.53 |
``Erik |
erm, of
course... |
| 22:37.08 |
``Erik |
oi, dude,
they set ya up in a decent hotel? (and read the
backscroll) |
| 22:38.41 |
brlcad |
not too
shabby actually, definitely a "high" three star |
| 22:38.57 |
brlcad |
there's even
like three free intarwebs here |
| 22:40.02 |
brlcad |
there's
enough room for at least like 3 or 4 girls with me in the
bed |
| 22:40.11 |
brlcad |
too bad none
are attending this thing :) |
| 22:40.35 |
brlcad |
jgay:
howdy! |
| 22:40.42 |
louipc |
at least they
must be attending the bar... or some tables or
something? |
| 22:42.26 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
not even 4-5 years, we're about to close out year 3 |
| 22:45.20 |
brlcad |
jgay: there's
more details in the COPYING file, see
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/COPYING |
| 22:46.44 |
brlcad |
but the gist
is that the entire package is under the LGPL with the exception of
the build infrastructure, some scripts, data files, and some of the
documentation |
| 22:48.01 |
brlcad |
basically any
of the stuff that is completely "peripheral" and could disappear on
a moment's notice, or that we wouldn't even care if someone tried
to sell it because it's prevalently available in other places, is
under BSD |
| 22:49.04 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-91-122.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:49.09 |
brlcad |
the actual
sources to BRL-CAD are almost entirely under LGPL, save a few
grandfathered files that arein the public domain |
| 22:50.30 |
``Erik |
lgpl for
libs, gpl for bins, I thought |
| 22:51.48 |
louipc |
I didn't
think anything is in gpl anymore |
| 22:51.49 |
brlcad |
all lgpl
now |
| 22:51.56 |
louipc |
:D |
| 22:52.06 |
louipc |
oh let me put
my glasses on |
| 22:52.09 |
louipc |
8D |
| 22:54.00 |
brlcad |
the problem
was actually with ARL .. we couldn't refactor front-end gpl code
into the libraries without causing problems ... and gpl libs are an
outright non-starter for brl-cad's primary user and supporter (i.e.
arl) |
| 22:55.09 |
``Erik |
hrm, I
presume this was when I was a 'user' sorta? |
| 22:55.27 |
louipc |
would GPL
count if it isn't distributed outside ARL? |
| 22:55.39 |
brlcad |
7.10.0 |
| 22:56.27 |
``Erik |
it's always
been distributed out of ARL |
| 22:57.03 |
brlcad |
louipc:
that's where (imho) it's rather questionable, since arl certainly
"redistributes" to an extent (or at least wants that
right) |
| 22:57.04 |
louipc |
no I mean the
'secret' stuff |
| 22:57.14 |
louipc |
ah |
| 22:58.24 |
``Erik |
the
non-public stuff is distributed outside of ARL, but with pretty
strict constraints on who can see it, ugly license
agreements... |
| 22:58.35 |
louipc |
of
course |
| 22:58.37 |
brlcad |
so to have
folks at arl contributing, and then arl distributing one of the
brl-cad libraries with a binary version of one of the analysis
codes (like muves or orca) .. they cannot do that if the libs were
gpl |
| 22:58.54 |
louipc |
yea |
| 22:59.07 |
brlcad |
so yeah, libs
as gpl is an absolute .. non-starter |
| 22:59.30 |
brlcad |
so in our
best interest to be able to refactor back and forth from libs to
front-end code and back, it really simplifies to make it all
lgpl |
| 22:59.42 |
louipc |
why not all
just BSD? |
| 22:59.49 |
brlcad |
aside from
just making it freaking easier to talk about :) |
| 23:00.07 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 23:00.16 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:00.34 |
brlcad |
that's
another perfectly viable option, but it doesn't buy us
anything |
| 23:00.37 |
``Erik |
gpl served
the purposes |
| 23:00.56 |
louipc |
yeah no use
changing it anymore |
| 23:01.55 |
brlcad |
that is one
of the few areas where lgpl kinda serves a purpose.. i mean
closed-source CAD is about a 5-10 billion dollar industry iirc, and
the only difference of going to bsd would be that folks could use
our code in closed codes without needing to share changes to our
code (i.e. extensions) |
| 23:02.45 |
``Erik |
*nod* and we
want the full experience available to everyone |
| 23:02.51 |
``Erik |
cuz we
ROCK! |
| 23:03.09 |
louipc |
roxorz |
| 23:03.18 |
brlcad |
lgpl's a good
balance of having everyone work on the same code without worries of
what codes their hooking into, and with the assurance that nobody
(in this expensive industry) is going to try to clam up and gain
leverage -- encourages collaboration |
| 23:04.23 |
``Erik |
industry
amount aside, the big packages are like $20k-40k a seat |
| 23:04.34 |
louipc |
yep |
| 23:04.36 |
louipc |
or
more |
| 23:05.06 |
louipc |
if you ask me
schools/companies are stupid to not take initiative to develop
open-source alternatives |
| 23:05.36 |
``Erik |
if it weren't
virtually impenetrable, I'd try to write up a cad system :D I
wouldn't mind a garage full of ferraris |
| 23:05.49 |
louipc |
yeah! |
| 23:06.11 |
louipc |
well even GPL
allows you to sell the software... |
| 23:06.27 |
brlcad |
yeah, it
really is a massive market to make any sort of dent in |
| 23:06.49 |
archivist |
sexy gui will
make the difference |
| 23:06.50 |
brlcad |
we could have
10x the activity, and we'd still be about a decade behind the
commercial systems |
| 23:06.58 |
louipc |
archivist:
yea definitely |
| 23:07.05 |
brlcad |
sexy gui will
help get that 10x, if now 50x |
| 23:07.08 |
brlcad |
s/now/not/ |
| 23:07.28 |
louipc |
90% more
users |
| 23:07.45 |
brlcad |
500%
;) |
| 23:07.46 |
louipc |
or uh
more.. |
| 23:08.03 |
louipc |
yea |
| 23:08.30 |
``Erik |
start writing
the replacement for mged, archivist :D I can't wait to see your
results |
| 23:08.40 |
archivist |
heh |
| 23:09.59 |
brlcad |
er,
5000% |
| 23:10.23 |
brlcad |
divide by 23,
carry the one, add 82 .. |
| 23:10.27 |
archivist |
or
more |
| 23:10.35 |
brlcad |
5000% == 50x
;) |
| 23:11.17 |
louipc |
I will pick
up dev one day.... |
| 23:11.37 |
louipc |
I'll probably
work on drafting aspects :D |
| 23:12.37 |
archivist |
a "few" years
ago |
| 23:12.41 |
louipc |
archivist:
haha sweet that's the first programming I ever did |
| 23:13.05 |
louipc |
borland turbo
pascal |
| 23:13.15 |
archivist |
I used that
before C |
| 23:14.11 |
``Erik |
<-- did
basic and asm before C, thus is code-tarded |
| 23:14.16 |
``Erik |
well |
| 23:14.26 |
``Erik |
basic and
mnemonics using a monitor on the c64 |
| 23:15.06 |
archivist |
SC/MP then
PET for me |
| 23:15.10 |
louipc |
I found a
printed copy of a WATFIV (fortran) program in my garage |
| 23:15.21 |
louipc |
from 77
:D |
| 23:16.00 |
archivist |
send a copy
to bitsavers.org |
| 23:16.13 |
louipc |
will do once
I type it up |
| 23:16.51 |
louipc |
I need to
find something to compile it too |
| 23:17.20 |
archivist |
my debian box
has fortran |
| 23:17.43 |
archivist |
g77
iirc |
| 23:17.53 |
louipc |
gcc-fortran
is kickin still hey? |
| 23:18.20 |
archivist |
I was playing
with it on my alpha so yes |
| 23:19.12 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 23:19.30 |
``Erik |
can g77 do
IV? O.o heh |
| 23:19.36 |
louipc |
university of
waterloo's variation of it anyways |
| 23:19.43 |
louipc |
I haven't
tried compiling it yet |
| 23:19.58 |
archivist |
fortran-- for
its column specific sillyness |
| 23:20.25 |
``Erik |
lots of
languages from the era have that kinda silliness, archivist... take
a look at, say, RPG |
| 23:20.28 |
louipc |
that has to
do with punch cards though |
| 23:20.37 |
louipc |
in that case
it made sense, not so much nowadays |
| 23:20.39 |
``Erik |
don't look
very close, you'll have to gouge your eyes out if you
do |
| 23:22.36 |
archivist |
I may have
RPG on punched cards in the loft at home from an IBM
1130 |
| 23:27.24 |
``Erik |
I d'no, C was
in the land of minis with interactive terminals for a long
time |
| 23:27.34 |
``Erik |
it was the
unix programming language... :/ |
| 23:28.10 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 23:28.14 |
jgay |
brlcad, when
you get a chance, would you mind emailing me at
jgay@fsf.org |
| 23:28.31 |
jgay |
sorry I cut
out earlier, I had to run out. |
| 23:28.46 |
louipc |
what would he
email you about? |
| 23:28.48 |
jgay |
I'm signing
off for the night right now, though. Look forward to chatting with
you |
| 23:29.09 |
``Erik |
heh, mebbe
YOU should email HIM with your list of questions :D
*duck* |
| 23:29.37 |
brlcad |
jgay:
sure |
| 23:29.43 |
louipc |
otherwise
he'd say "umm.. you asked me to email you. Hi. wasup?" |
| 23:29.46 |
jgay |
thanks |
| 23:30.07 |
brlcad |
anything in
particular I should write? :) |
| 23:30.11 |
jgay |
louipc,
exactly |
| 23:30.15 |
louipc |
lol |
| 23:30.21 |
jgay |
haha, i was
just hoping to get your email address and starta
discussion |
| 23:30.38 |
louipc |
jgay: join
the brlcad-dev ML |
| 23:30.40 |
louipc |
? |
| 23:30.40 |
jgay |
i want to put
out a call to developers and make brl-cad a high priority project
according to the FSF |
| 23:30.52 |
louipc |
jgay: yeah
make your announcement there too |
| 23:30.55 |
jgay |
so i wanted
to discuss with you some things about what kinds of developers,
etc |
| 23:31.22 |
jgay |
louipc, yeah,
I can do that. I'll discuss it on brlcad-dev ML if that makes
sense. Are you brlcad's administrative assistant? |
| 23:31.25 |
jgay |
I'm confused
:-P |
| 23:31.34 |
louipc |
jgay: I'm an
interloper |
| 23:31.46 |
jgay |
OK, I'm off
for the night. Hehe. Thanks guys! Sorry I ran out and then
again! |
| 23:31.57 |
louipc |
cheers |
| 23:32.16 |
louipc |
administrative assistant =
secretary? |
| 23:32.40 |
archivist |
usually
yes |
| 23:33.22 |
brlcad |
assists in
administration ;) |
| 23:35.01 |
``Erik |
opposed to an
administrator O.o |
| 23:35.05 |
archivist |
I hate these
modern/higher terms being applied to pre-existing jobs |
| 23:35.25 |
``Erik |
I guess we
must've annoyed jgay to have him wanting to talk in email instead
of channel :D |
| 23:35.54 |
``Erik |
all in the
name of political correctness O.o |
| 23:35.59 |
louipc |
those damned
FSF commies |
| 23:36.25 |
``Erik |
heh, I
vagually recall something about drive channels being renamed in
california? from master/slave to primary/secondary? O.o |
| 23:37.02 |
``Erik |
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/11/26/135701.php |
| 23:37.33 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist_
(n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 01:22.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c): |
| 01:22.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: "B
-A" no longer acts like you gave it the wrong syntax if nothing
matches. |
| 01:22.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Also, "B" commanad with no args now acts like "Z". |
| 02:58.58 |
``Erik |
'commanad'
wow... |
| 02:59.26 |
``Erik |
yeah, he's
just a dude, but, ... jra produces godlike output, it boggles me
that he'd make a typo\ |
| 04:56.51 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 06:08.31 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:16.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:24.54 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): create/generate
the generic versionless libraries during compile/install so that
the former behavior of just using -ltcl and -ltk will work for
external codes. |
| 07:39.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): merge
the tcl/tk symlink checks in from head so that -ltcl and -ltk work
for external users |
| 09:16.56 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-018-050.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:56.09 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-138-206.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:52.00 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
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| 12:52.16 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
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| 12:58.08 |
*** part/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-138-206.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:07.58 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
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| 13:10.28 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-029-074.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:54.53 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 13:55.21 |
``Erik |
I'm out sick
today. I woke up feeling like shit, then got an email telling me
that a close college buddie died in a motorcycle
accident. |
| 13:55.44 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: was
it like telepathy? |
| 13:55.49 |
Z80-Boy |
Feeling shit
because someone close died? |
| 13:55.52 |
``Erik |
no, he died a
month ago |
| 13:56.05 |
``Erik |
blew a corner
and hit a sign :( |
| 13:56.25 |
``Erik |
as much as I
like motorcycles, I doubt I'll ever own one. |
| 13:57.04 |
``Erik |
I've ridden
them before, and have had fun... but hearing stories, losing
friends... and the idiocity of suv drivers... it's not a very safe
activiy |
| 13:58.00 |
``Erik |
so, brlcad, I
tried to call phb (got vm), and sent email, if anyone is looking
for me, save it 'till tuesday :D |
| 14:12.14 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: Mike
Muus died on a road... |
| 14:28.46 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 14:36.41 |
``Erik |
7 years
ago |
| 14:37.06 |
``Erik |
but I
(unfortunately) never met the man |
| 14:37.57 |
``Erik |
so it's a BIT
more distant than finding out a friend who I've written code with,
went out drinking with, slept on his couch (after drinking too
much)... :/ |
| 14:38.04 |
``Erik |
a month
ago |
| 14:38.28 |
``Erik |
at least it
was an accident... a close friend of mine commited suicide a couple
years ago, THAT was hard |
| 14:39.47 |
``Erik |
ended up
bawling like a baby over that :) right now, I'm just drinking
myself fucktarded |
| 14:41.03 |
Z80-Boy |
was it hard
to commit the suicide? |
| 14:41.22 |
Z80-Boy |
Two
classmates from the university, one was a friend, also comitted
suicide |
| 14:41.50 |
Z80-Boy |
a distant
friend let's say |
| 14:42.37 |
``Erik |
no, my coping
with it was hard. |
| 14:43.02 |
Z80-Boy |
like some
programs corrupt their memory and then crash |
| 14:43.04 |
Z80-Boy |
people do the
same |
| 14:43.21 |
Z80-Boy |
convince
themself that jumping from a bridge etc. is good for
them |
| 14:43.30 |
Z80-Boy |
ideas can be
dangerous ;-) |
| 14:43.40 |
``Erik |
rocky got me
my first computer job, I sat in his living room for new years 2000,
with the couch that had a broken spring that stabbed your ass,
heh |
| 14:44.04 |
Z80-Boy |
no more rocky
anymore because rocky crashed, that simple |
| 14:44.10 |
``Erik |
he was a
great guy :/ |
| 14:44.29 |
``Erik |
dan was,
too |
| 14:44.47 |
``Erik |
in general, I
will only get fitshaced drunk infront of people I really really
trust. these were both guys that qualify for that |
| 14:44.51 |
Z80-Boy |
don't worry
he would be dead later anyway |
| 14:44.58 |
Z80-Boy |
all people
seem to eventually become dead |
| 14:45.07 |
Z80-Boy |
he just time
shifted it |
| 14:45.10 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 14:45.12 |
Z80-Boy |
like you time
shift a TV show on VHS |
| 14:45.25 |
``Erik |
when my
grandparents passed, it was a lot easier |
| 14:46.19 |
``Erik |
I'm not sure
if it's the lost possibilities, or the realization of mortality,
but young people dying is a lot more tragic than old people
dying |
| 14:46.34 |
``Erik |
vodka good.
*grunt*. |
| 14:46.54 |
Z80-Boy |
well the
young people would turn into old people anyway |
| 14:48.05 |
Z80-Boy |
and then into
zombies |
| 14:48.09 |
Z80-Boy |
and then they
would turn dead |
| 14:48.42 |
Z80-Boy |
dying should
be banned under the death penalty |
| 14:48.59 |
Z80-Boy |
cause it
makes the remaining people uncomfortabl |
| 14:49.10 |
``Erik |
attempted
suicide is a federal crime in the US |
| 14:49.24 |
Z80-Boy |
so your
friend is a criminal! |
| 14:49.31 |
``Erik |
no |
| 14:49.38 |
Z80-Boy |
can you get
into jail for attempting suicide? |
| 14:49.38 |
``Erik |
he didn't
attempt, he succeeded. |
| 14:49.41 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 14:49.45 |
Z80-Boy |
wow |
| 14:50.11 |
Z80-Boy |
murder on
/dev/loopback |
| 14:50.31 |
``Erik |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_views_of_suicide |
| 14:50.37 |
Z80-Boy |
This is the
police. Stop aiming at your head or we shoot you down |
| 14:50.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Ironically,
the punishment for attempted suicide in some jurisdictions has been
death. |
| 14:51.00 |
Z80-Boy |
lol |
| 14:51.02 |
``Erik |
ok, not
federal, some states |
| 14:52.30 |
Z80-Boy |
In the United
States, suicide has never been punished as a crime nor penalized by
property forfeiture or ignominious burial. |
| 14:53.37 |
``Erik |
I'm more in
tune with teh laws when I grew up, so I'm kinda operating on early
90's law... with washington being a specific set... which listed
suicide as a felony at the time *shrug* |
| 14:53.54 |
``Erik |
I have been
educated. Suicide is no longer a punishable crime in the
us |
| 14:56.38 |
Z80-Boy |
Well
suceessfull suicide is still punished by the death
penalty |
| 15:08.39 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch) |
| 15:08.41 |
*** part/#brlcad tarzeau2
(i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch) |
| 15:16.25 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 15:19.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875A64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:53.50 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Sorry to hear that - my condolences :-( |
| 16:42.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 17:00.49 |
brlcad |
howdy
yukonbob |
| 17:02.16 |
yukonbob |
hey brlcad.
Happy Friday.. |
| 17:02.26 |
brlcad |
yeah,
likewise :) |
| 17:05.13 |
*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid
Modeling || http://brlcad.org ||
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com, ask for an account if you're
willing to hunt/fix bugs :) || Release 7.10.4
imminent |
| 17:05.19 |
brlcad |
~spell
imminent |
| 17:05.30 |
brlcad |
sounds too
minty |
| 17:05.36 |
Z80-Boy |
~spell
immenent |
| 17:05.47 |
Z80-Boy |
~spell
eminem |
| 17:05.55 |
brlcad |
~dict
immanent |
| 17:06.02 |
Z80-Boy |
~spell
brlcad |
| 17:06.19 |
brlcad |
~dict
imminent |
| 17:06.33 |
brlcad |
aiight, so I
did get it right at least :) |
| 17:06.46 |
Z80-Boy |
~spell
bricket |
| 17:07.30 |
bricked_brigade |
~spell
briquette |
| 17:08.23 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I'll
take an account for coverity -- I assume it's up/running
again? |
| 17:08.51 |
brlcad |
it's up, but
the scan is incomplete |
| 17:09.06 |
brlcad |
so it's not
really of any use just quite yet until the scan is
rerun |
| 17:09.19 |
bracket_brigade |
brlcad: I
think you should render head and headcut from ronja to see the vast
orders of magnitude rendering time |
| 17:09.28 |
bracket_brigade |
when one is
just a cutaway view of the other |
| 17:09.46 |
bracket_brigade |
or perpend
and perpendcut it's a simple design and it's the same
problem |
| 17:10.39 |
brlcad |
have you run
a profile? |
| 17:10.54 |
brlcad |
that would be
useful to see if the difference is obvious |
| 17:10.59 |
brlcad |
i mean
code-wise |
| 17:18.45 |
brlcad |
ahh ..
apparently I can't create accounts just yet even if I want
to |
| 17:18.59 |
brlcad |
david has to
enable some option or create them for us |
| 17:19.05 |
brlcad |
probably
because our scan was incomplete |
| 17:19.40 |
*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid
Modeling || http://brlcad.org ||
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet,
more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent |
| 17:19.46 |
bracket_brigade |
a profile?
What is it? |
| 17:20.07 |
bracket_brigade |
Like code
profiling in C? |
| 17:24.01 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 17:24.02 |
brlcad |
gprof |
| 17:24.21 |
brlcad |
./configure
--enable-profiling --enable-debug --disable-optimized |
| 17:24.54 |
brlcad |
then run one
ray-trace, run gprof; then run the other ray-trace, and run gprof
again |
| 17:25.08 |
bracket_brigade |
gprof with
what params? |
| 17:25.10 |
brlcad |
post/compare
the two reports |
| 17:25.27 |
brlcad |
when you run
rt it'll dump out a gmon.out file into the current
directory |
| 17:25.46 |
brlcad |
so you just
have to run gprof in that same directory, with a param of the
/path/to/rt |
| 17:26.26 |
brlcad |
e.g.
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt -o /dev/null ronja.g ronja && gprof
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 17:26.40 |
bracket_brigade |
aha
nice |
| 17:26.47 |
brlcad |
er, gprof
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt > results.log 2>&1 |
| 17:27.20 |
brlcad |
then rm
gmon.out, do another rt with the slow object, and get the next
gprof output |
| 17:48.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 17:48.17 |
Z80-Boy |
If I run
./configure with different parameters do I have to type make clean
after? |
| 17:48.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Or can I
continue with make? |
| 17:51.31 |
brlcad |
have to make
clean |
| 17:51.41 |
brlcad |
it has to
rebuild all of the files with the profile parameter |
| 17:51.54 |
Z80-Boy |
gprof a.out
no such file or directory |
| 17:52.23 |
Z80-Boy |
aha I didn't
do make clean anyway |
| 17:52.52 |
brlcad |
you wouldn't
have an a.out either |
| 17:52.57 |
Z80-Boy |
hmm gprof
reads the given object file but I guess rt is assembled from a lot
of different object files which one should I supply? |
| 17:52.58 |
brlcad |
unless you're
building your own thing |
| 17:53.08 |
Z80-Boy |
The one whose
timing I am interested in? |
| 17:53.33 |
brlcad |
you supply
gprof with the binary that you're running (i.e. rt) |
| 17:53.42 |
brlcad |
one that
ideally has profile symbols included |
| 17:53.44 |
Z80-Boy |
OK
cool |
| 17:54.05 |
brlcad |
to get those
profile symbols, you have to build the application (and all object
files and all libraries it uses) with a profile option
enabled |
| 17:54.21 |
brlcad |
otherwise it
can't instrument the function calls and give a good
profile |
| 17:54.51 |
brlcad |
so yeah, make
clean, run configure with those options I mentioned, then run
rt+gprof twice |
| 18:07.45 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed mged 'B' command behavior with
-A and no args |
| 18:08.41 |
yukonbob |
.and "B"
alone doesn't puke error msgs anymore |
| 18:12.03 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 18:12.11 |
brlcad |
acts like
Z |
| 18:12.56 |
yukonbob |
is it
possible to have lookat behave like eye_pt or ae where if it has no
args, it reports current settings? |
| 18:14.40 |
brlcad |
probably
easy-as-pie |
| 18:15.02 |
brlcad |
care to make
a patch? :) |
| 18:15.05 |
yukonbob |
it makes
sense to have it do that, as it's useful, and inline w/ the
behaviour of others |
| 18:15.20 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I'm
looking for relevant code right now ;) |
| 18:57.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-77-7.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:57.58 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
maked after the ./configure you recommended for profiling and got
this: |
| 18:58.48 |
Z80-Boy |
/bin/sh
../../libtool --silent [...] -o btclsh [...] -lm
../../src/libtermio/libtermio.la -lm |
| 18:58.56 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined
reference to `putchar' |
| 18:58.56 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined
reference to `rand' |
| 19:00.25 |
Z80-Boy |
make
src/rt/rt actually says nothing to make so I tried profiling. I ran
rt ronja.g head and then |
| 19:00.28 |
Z80-Boy |
clock@kestrel:~/brlcad/src/rt$ gprof
./rt |
| 19:00.28 |
Z80-Boy |
gprof: ./rt:
bad format |
| 19:00.39 |
brlcad |
you sure do
guess a lot ;) |
| 19:00.49 |
brlcad |
(when you run
into problems in particular) |
| 19:01.07 |
brlcad |
src/rt/rt is
not a binary |
| 19:01.14 |
Z80-Boy |
oh
:) |
| 19:01.30 |
brlcad |
it needs to
be installed, or you'd have to build static |
| 19:01.49 |
Z80-Boy |
so now make
install? |
| 19:01.49 |
brlcad |
those symbols
from Xft are bizarre, those are like -lc symbols |
| 19:01.58 |
brlcad |
did the
libraries build? |
| 19:02.02 |
brlcad |
and did you
rebuild rt |
| 19:02.05 |
Z80-Boy |
which
libraries? |
| 19:02.08 |
brlcad |
all of
them |
| 19:02.17 |
Z80-Boy |
all brlcad
libraries? |
| 19:02.22 |
brlcad |
is btclsh the
first failure? |
| 19:02.29 |
Z80-Boy |
umm I don't
know |
| 19:02.35 |
Z80-Boy |
I restarted
the build in the meantime |
| 19:02.44 |
brlcad |
you're making
this more complicated |
| 19:02.46 |
Z80-Boy |
how do I
figure out if the libraries built |
| 19:02.54 |
Z80-Boy |
I did that on
the bus |
| 19:03.00 |
brlcad |
do a make
clean |
| 19:03.02 |
brlcad |
then
make |
| 19:03.07 |
brlcad |
tell me how
far it gets |
| 19:03.08 |
Z80-Boy |
OK |
| 19:03.45 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't get
any compile error when I do just plain ./configure |
| 19:03.56 |
Z80-Boy |
and btw I
found another bug in raytracing |
| 19:04.28 |
brlcad |
no library
flags change with --enable-profile |
| 19:04.55 |
brlcad |
so I'd bet
you had an unclean build of some sort, or something else is going
on |
| 19:05.45 |
brlcad |
"just
recompiling" certainly doesn't cause that sort of error by
itself |
| 19:06.01 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 19:06.27 |
brlcad |
you could add
-lc to the LIBS but why you need to is really odd (but perhaps
necessary on your OS) |
| 19:06.51 |
brlcad |
try
./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling
LIBS=-lc |
| 19:07.10 |
brlcad |
i saw
it |
| 19:07.16 |
Z80-Boy |
you get
e-mails? |
| 19:07.22 |
brlcad |
on every
change |
| 19:07.25 |
Z80-Boy |
wow |
| 19:07.50 |
Z80-Boy |
-lc? like
libc? |
| 19:08.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Why should be
this specified? C program always compiles with libc
doesn't? |
| 19:08.19 |
Z80-Boy |
unless |
| 19:08.38 |
Z80-Boy |
"My name is
Theo de Raadt and Chuck Norris always asks me if he's allowed to
turn his computer on." |
| 19:08.58 |
brlcad |
those are
symbols that are in libc (putchar and rand) |
| 19:09.11 |
Z80-Boy |
yes I
know |
| 19:09.21 |
brlcad |
yes, most OS
automatically link against libc, but not all OS's .. and apparently
not yours in that instance for some reason |
| 19:09.53 |
brlcad |
could be a
libXft problem or a libtool problem or just a quirky behavior of
your OS |
| 19:10.07 |
brlcad |
my money is
on the latter |
| 19:10.15 |
Z80-Boy |
if a program
runs on OpenBSD it runs on anything ;-) |
| 19:10.21 |
Z80-Boy |
Especially
regarding segfaults ;-) |
| 19:20.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Has anyone
worked with vacuum tubes? |
| 19:20.53 |
Z80-Boy |
Someone
suggested to put a valve into the Ronja frontend to attempt
reducing the noise |
| 19:21.43 |
Z80-Boy |
I found a
valve which has comparable parameters to the FET cascodes
(tetrodes) employed but then someone on the mailing list said they
actually significantly improved equipment with tubes by replacing
tubes with transistors |
| 19:21.56 |
Z80-Boy |
and he thinks
the noise they observed is caused by the hot electron
cloud. |
| 19:32.49 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 19:32.49 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet,
more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent |
| 19:51.48 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: now
the compilation wiped out at the same place |
| 19:51.53 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined
reference to `putchar' |
| 19:51.53 |
Z80-Boy |
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined
reference to `rand' |
| 19:52.32 |
Z80-Boy |
if I add -lc
after -lm, it doesn't help |
| 19:53.00 |
Z80-Boy |
clock@kestrel:~/brlcad/src/bwish$ nm
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0 | grep putchar U putchar |
| 19:54.12 |
Z80-Boy |
if I remove
--silent, it prints the gcc call it does |
| 19:54.18 |
Z80-Boy |
and -lc is
stripped away from there again |
| 19:54.43 |
Z80-Boy |
if I add -lc
manually there, it works. |
| 19:55.09 |
Z80-Boy |
what is the
purpose of libtool? Break the compilation? |
| 19:55.55 |
brlcad |
it apparently
determined that it's already added or not needed |
| 19:56.05 |
brlcad |
so perhaps a
libtool bug + quirky system |
| 19:56.13 |
brlcad |
the fact that
you need it at all seems stupid |
| 19:56.24 |
Z80-Boy |
what does it
do apart from screwing up the compilation? |
| 19:57.24 |
Z80-Boy |
you should
into the BRL-CAD README: Requirements: non-quirky system and
non-buggy libtool |
| 19:57.36 |
Z80-Boy |
and a URL
where is described how to meet these requirements for any
system |
| 19:58.07 |
brlcad |
libtool
significantly helps 95% of the time |
| 19:58.12 |
brlcad |
it's that 5%
that's a bitch, though |
| 19:58.27 |
Z80-Boy |
what does it
do? |
| 19:58.28 |
brlcad |
still worth
it overall, but can be a pita when systems aren't
popular |
| 19:59.20 |
brlcad |
it does the
determination for how to successfully compile for your platform,
how to make binaries and libraries correctly, how to link, where to
find and put libraries, what kind of libraries, what compilation
options, linker options, on and on |
| 20:00.01 |
Z80-Boy |
s/correctly/without_any_guarantee_of_correctness/ |
| 20:00.02 |
brlcad |
the sort of
details like that you need -dynamiclib on some versions of mac and
-dynamic on others and -rdynamic on some versions of linux, but not
others, and so on |
| 20:00.38 |
brlcad |
it's no more
error prone than any other piece of software, all the autotools
have their share of annoying bugs .. if this is even a
bug |
| 20:01.01 |
Z80-Boy |
it's a bit
labour intensive to rerun libtool and then paste the gcc etc... for
every program where it fails |
| 20:01.33 |
brlcad |
you can set
it so it always blathers the gcc line |
| 20:01.59 |
Z80-Boy |
yeah that's
what I am doing |
| 20:02.04 |
brlcad |
--enable-progress |
| 20:02.14 |
Z80-Boy |
where? |
| 20:02.18 |
brlcad |
configure
option |
| 20:02.27 |
Z80-Boy |
what does it
do? |
| 20:02.30 |
brlcad |
--enable/disable is *always*
configure |
| 20:02.45 |
brlcad |
it enables
the gcc line |
| 20:03.18 |
brlcad |
it's listed
under ./configure --help and in detail in the INSTALL file that
covers compilation |
| 20:04.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I should
probably replace /usr/bin/gcc with a script... |
| 20:05.17 |
Z80-Boy |
and here we
gooooo... |
| 20:05.47 |
Z80-Boy |
libtoll
failed to implement a protection against *THAT* :) |
| 20:06.08 |
Z80-Boy |
and now
compile the rest of brlcad with "vanilla" gcc... |
| 20:06.43 |
Z80-Boy |
libtool
behaves like some kind of DRM which knows better what's good for
you, but knows it wrong ;-) |
| 20:08.44 |
Z80-Boy |
They should
pass a bill that replacing /usr/bin/gcc with a script is a
crime. |
| 20:10.01 |
brlcad |
eh, trying to
replace gcc with something still called gcc but doesn't behave like
gcc would be "wrong" imo, I'd want it to fail in that situation
:P |
| 20:10.30 |
Z80-Boy |
now it fails
the same way in src/mged |
| 20:10.39 |
brlcad |
that's about
as annoying as the debian folks replacing automake and autoconf
with scripts (that are outright busted in various
situations) |
| 20:10.43 |
Z80-Boy |
so we put the
script back again and compile the whole brl-cad this
way |
| 20:10.59 |
Z80-Boy |
OpenBSD has
them also replaced with script |
| 20:11.00 |
brlcad |
how can it
"now fail" in a different place? if the build stops, it's
stopped |
| 20:11.32 |
brlcad |
if you hack
at it to try and get it to continue, and don't do so correctly,
it's gonna keep failing... |
| 20:11.43 |
Z80-Boy |
because I
used the "script method" only for bwish. |
| 20:11.56 |
brlcad |
you really
shouldn't expect any different, the problem's not been
fixed |
| 20:12.26 |
Z80-Boy |
libtools
implements AI |
| 20:12.33 |
Z80-Boy |
Artificial
Imcompetence |
| 20:12.43 |
brlcad |
the bigger
question is what's different between configure with no options and
configure with profile options -- I still don't believe that to be
the case |
| 20:13.18 |
Z80-Boy |
you told me
to use 3 options, --profile was one of them |
| 20:13.21 |
Z80-Boy |
I used it
like you said. |
| 20:13.27 |
brlcad |
--profile
wasn't one of them |
| 20:14.15 |
Z80-Boy |
oh sorry it
was --enable-profiling: |
| 20:14.19 |
Z80-Boy |
"21:06
<@brlcad> try ./configure --disable-optimized
--enable-profiling LIBS=-lc" |
| 20:14.20 |
brlcad |
and that
STILL doesn't answer what's *different* |
| 20:14.29 |
Z80-Boy |
Why did you
say LIBS=-lc? |
| 20:15.12 |
brlcad |
somehow I bet
if you ran make clean && ./configure && make that
it would also fail, if that really is the only
difference |
| 20:15.17 |
Z80-Boy |
the configure
commandline options are different |
| 20:15.29 |
Z80-Boy |
./configure
works, ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc
doesn't |
| 20:15.37 |
Z80-Boy |
Now it
compiled with the help of my "script method". |
| 20:15.53 |
brlcad |
have you ran
a clean configure since running clean? |
| 20:15.59 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 20:16.05 |
brlcad |
then your
statement is bogus |
| 20:16.26 |
Z80-Boy |
now it
compiled all brlcad successfully |
| 20:16.33 |
Z80-Boy |
should I do
make install now? |
| 20:17.06 |
Z80-Boy |
maybe my
statement is bogus |
| 20:17.14 |
Z80-Boy |
and I am also
said to have bad attitude, beware! |
| 20:18.20 |
brlcad |
you're just
way too quick to jump to conclusions that have very little if any
basis, with an incomplete understanding of what's going
on |
| 20:18.43 |
brlcad |
this problem
is going to keep biting if it's not figured out |
| 20:19.26 |
Z80-Boy |
you mean the
"undefined putchar" problem on OpenBSD when profiling is turned
on? |
| 20:19.45 |
Z80-Boy |
now I am
installing... |
| 20:19.57 |
brlcad |
if you don't
want to figure it out, that's fine by me -- I couldn't care less,
it's your system -- but then you've got very little basis to be
bitching about it not working right when the problem isn't fixed
and you hack around it in various ways.. |
| 20:20.15 |
Z80-Boy |
but can I
help you with some information to figure it out? |
| 20:20.16 |
brlcad |
s/fixed/even
determined really/ |
| 20:20.20 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't know
what I should investigate |
| 20:21.49 |
brlcad |
run make
clean and ./configure with no options followed by make -- now that
you've cleaned beforehand, see if that works -- see if -lc is on
the compile line |
| 20:22.40 |
Z80-Boy |
OK... |
| 20:23.00 |
Z80-Boy |
it'll just
take a while wait |
| 20:24.11 |
brlcad |
thanks |
| 20:24.20 |
Z80-Boy |
make clean
done, configure running |
| 20:24.40 |
brlcad |
and I'll
gladly hop on again too if it's non-obvious, might see something
missed |
| 20:25.22 |
Z80-Boy |
OH, I have
profiling output! |
| 20:25.27 |
Z80-Boy |
make clean
finished, running make... |
| 20:27.00 |
Z80-Boy |
is the
profiling affected seriously by compilation in the
background? |
| 20:30.06 |
brlcad |
i'd wait for
the compile to finish regardless |
| 20:30.26 |
Z80-Boy |
sure |
| 20:30.27 |
brlcad |
iirc, it
keeps track of both cputime and wallclock, so it'd mess with the
profile a little |
| 20:35.28 |
Z80-Boy |
both slow and
fast spend most time in _mcount |
| 20:35.33 |
Z80-Boy |
fast spends
22% slow 27% |
| 20:36.25 |
brlcad |
bah |
| 20:36.43 |
brlcad |
then gnu
folks haven't done a good job with gprof on openbsd yet |
| 20:38.23 |
Z80-Boy |
can you be
more specific? |
| 20:38.37 |
brlcad |
try adding -e
mcount to gprof |
| 20:38.40 |
Z80-Boy |
and when I
ran the rt for the profiling, it sometimes crashed and sometimes
not |
| 20:38.48 |
Z80-Boy |
produced some
"*.log" files but no core files |
| 20:38.49 |
brlcad |
er, -E
mcount |
| 20:38.55 |
Z80-Boy |
it begins
BRL-CAD Release 7.10.3 Crash Report |
| 20:39.07 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r271 10/trunk/libirc/include/libIRC.h: start some
doxygen type comments to get the ball rolling. |
| 20:39.09 |
Z80-Boy |
call stack
backtrace is full of question marks |
| 20:39.46 |
brlcad |
there should
be an rt.*crash.log file |
| 20:39.56 |
brlcad |
can you post
it somewhere? |
| 20:40.15 |
Z80-Boy |
unknown-13359-bomb.log
unknown-1506-bomb.log |
| 20:40.30 |
brlcad |
okay,
those |
| 20:40.37 |
Z80-Boy |
on the
captu? |
| 20:40.46 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r272 10/trunk/libirc/include/libIRC.h: missed the
shabang! |
| 20:40.59 |
brlcad |
captu? |
| 20:41.06 |
Z80-Boy |
where is the
post-large-printouts website? |
| 20:41.18 |
brlcad |
~bzpastebin |
| 20:41.18 |
ibot |
i guess
bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place
to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 20:45.18 |
Z80-Boy |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4c2f613e |
| 20:46.50 |
Z80-Boy |
here is a
piece of the profile for the "fast" model: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m59137327 |
| 20:47.48 |
Z80-Boy |
And here for
the "slow" one: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3ffb84d6 |
| 20:48.02 |
brlcad |
hrmph |
| 20:48.26 |
brlcad |
well good to
see that the automatic crash reports are working, but there were
absolutely no symbols in there so it's practically
useless |
| 20:49.00 |
brlcad |
well, not
absolutely -- it's a null pointer dereference of some sort that
just totally blew out the stack |
| 20:49.29 |
brlcad |
which ..
openbsd is supposed to prevent from happening too....
odd |
| 20:50.35 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't
understand it into such details |
| 20:50.51 |
brlcad |
did you add
the -E mcount? |
| 20:50.53 |
Z80-Boy |
I just know
Theo's Puffy keeps burglars out of my P.C. by some stack
randomization and whatever other tricks. |
| 20:50.59 |
Z80-Boy |
no I
didn't |
| 20:51.06 |
Z80-Boy |
that was
without -E mcount |
| 20:51.39 |
brlcad |
try both with
"-E mcount -E _mcount" just to be sure |
| 20:51.44 |
brlcad |
make sure
there's no mcount in the result |
| 20:51.52 |
brlcad |
s/result/report/ |
| 20:52.16 |
Z80-Boy |
now worker
[1] is the number one |
| 20:54.36 |
Z80-Boy |
now in the
bad one the calloc is the #1 |
| 20:54.39 |
Z80-Boy |
should I post
it? |
| 20:57.19 |
Z80-Boy |
hey look
crash again |
| 20:57.30 |
Z80-Boy |
Additional
mem=0., #malloc=1575, #free=1318, #realloc=4 (257
retained) |
| 20:57.30 |
Z80-Boy |
804dc0bu_log:
write error |
| 20:57.30 |
Z80-Boy |
Saving stack
trace to unknown-13652-bomb.log |
| 20:57.55 |
Z80-Boy |
no core
again |
| 20:58.12 |
Z80-Boy |
and again
stack all question marks |
| 20:58.59 |
Z80-Boy |
2 more
crashes in a row and 6 successful raytraces |
| 20:59.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Maybe it's
the thread ordering? Or page ordering in memory? |
| 21:00.15 |
Z80-Boy |
Interesting.
If I run 'find /', then the rt gets a fit of couple crashes and
then subsequent runs raytrace happily |
| 21:00.22 |
Z80-Boy |
until I run
the find / again ;-) |
| 21:01.53 |
Z80-Boy |
the slow
model needs 15.5 sec the fast one 0.074 sec |
| 21:02.13 |
Z80-Boy |
That's 209x
faster |
| 21:02.18 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it normal?
Just a cutaway... |
| 21:03.18 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-138-206.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:03.33 |
Z80-Boy |
By CPU time
the difference is 214x |
| 21:07.20 |
Z80-Boy |
OK make
finished OK |
| 21:07.39 |
Z80-Boy |
There are
lots of gcc commandlines in the compile, one example: |
| 21:08.33 |
Z80-Boy |
I can't find
one it's all libtool |
| 21:15.24 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/intaval-g.py: a script that parses
INTAVAL files into Tcl that mged can read. |
| 21:18.12 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
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| 21:18.12 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet,
more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent |
| 21:19.53 |
``Erik |
um, the whole
bsd family tends to be finicky about profiling shtuff |
| 21:20.16 |
``Erik |
all the
symbols are provided in libraries (libc_r.so libc_p.so
etc) |
| 21:20.21 |
``Erik |
but gcc is...
gooby |
| 21:22.14 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r273 10/trunk/libirc/include/ (6 files): some more
doxygenification |
| 21:23.34 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: no,
I think you pinpointed a really bad inefficiency (calloc) that
shouldn't be happening .. that's the glory of profiling
:) |
| 21:23.46 |
brlcad |
just need to
see the profile myself to see where it's coming from |
| 21:24.26 |
brlcad |
i'm about to
run out for a few hours, so I'll have to catch up |
| 21:25.05 |
``Erik |
is the
'cutaway' using a "half" primitive? I'm under the impression that
'half' is horrible for performance |
| 21:25.34 |
``Erik |
(also, I've
never thought of obsd as an efficient for fast os... it's the
"safe" one...) |
| 21:32.14 |
Z80-Boy |
what's the
story morning glory |
| 21:39.13 |
Z80-Boy |
bool.c: "
* The list is terminated with a NULL
pointer, |
| 21:39.13 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.14 |
Z80-Boy |
" |
| 21:39.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Sounds like
could be optimized... |
| 21:42.51 |
Z80-Boy |
shoot.c also
contains one calloc which smells like could be
optimized |
| 21:43.55 |
Z80-Boy |
basically any
calloc is suspicious |
| 21:44.04 |
Z80-Boy |
what's the
point of having a memory block zeroed out? |
| 21:44.15 |
Z80-Boy |
If you want
to write into part of it then do malloc, write, and zero out the
rest |
| 21:45.05 |
Z80-Boy |
If you don't
write then you can replace any read into the block with
0 |
| 21:45.17 |
Z80-Boy |
so you don't
need this block to be actually present anywhere and can just forget
it |
| 21:50.14 |
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``Erik |
heh |
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| 06:35.32 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: you
ever get the two new profiles up with the -E mcount -E _mcount
? |
| 07:04.19 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667620.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:10.46 |
Z80-Boy |
um... |
| 07:10.49 |
Z80-Boy |
I can do
it |
| 07:11.45 |
Z80-Boy |
but can yo
ureproduce the 210x slowdown in your installation? |
| 07:13.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Now I get a
weird behaviour of the framebuffer window |
| 07:13.27 |
Z80-Boy |
If I put
mouse over it, the whole screen turns black, except that the mouse
pointer is visible. |
| 07:13.44 |
Z80-Boy |
I produced
the framebuffer with the same command as before, and it didn't
happen. |
| 07:14.01 |
Z80-Boy |
If I click on
the framebuffer after the screen turns black, it goes
away. |
| 07:15.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Interesting
is what happens if I put a video play on the desktop background
using mplayer -rootwin -fs |
| 07:15.28 |
brlcad |
focus
man |
| 07:15.34 |
brlcad |
looking to
get the profile logs :) |
| 07:15.54 |
brlcad |
that is the
critical next step |
| 07:16.00 |
Z80-Boy |
When I go
with the mouse over the framebuffer, I see video over the whole
screen with the two xterm's and the framebuffer cut out like black
masks - black rectangles |
| 07:16.10 |
Z80-Boy |
But why a
single command behaves in 3 different ways? |
| 07:16.25 |
Z80-Boy |
Once
raytraces, one crashes, once produces a blackhole
framebuffer? |
| 07:16.53 |
brlcad |
that's two
separate bugs |
| 07:17.08 |
brlcad |
a bug in X11
and a bug in the OpenGL interface in BRL-CAD |
| 07:17.14 |
Z80-Boy |
I'll upload
the gprof logs to the 210x bugreport, right? |
| 07:17.26 |
Z80-Boy |
Does it mean
you have already seen this bug? |
| 07:17.26 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 07:17.30 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 07:17.34 |
Z80-Boy |
hehe
:) |
| 07:17.40 |
brlcad |
you can get
around it with --disable-opengl |
| 07:17.45 |
brlcad |
er,
--without-opengl |
| 07:17.55 |
Z80-Boy |
do you think
opengl is a piece of crap? |
| 07:18.02 |
brlcad |
not in the
least |
| 07:18.11 |
Z80-Boy |
is it
designed well? |
| 07:18.14 |
brlcad |
that just
disables the libfb and libdm interfaces that use opengl |
| 07:18.31 |
brlcad |
doesn't
remove *any* functionality in brl-cad, just changes the language
it's speaking |
| 07:18.49 |
Z80-Boy |
Oh a little
problem |
| 07:19.08 |
Z80-Boy |
I reinstalled
the systemwide brl-cad with a non-gprof version since I wanted to
leave Ronja raytracing overnight |
| 07:19.13 |
brlcad |
e.g. run rt
-F/dev/Xl .. it should not exhibit the black screen |
| 07:19.15 |
Z80-Boy |
and the gprof
version crashes and is slower |
| 07:19.21 |
Z80-Boy |
now I have to
recompile again omg |
| 07:19.34 |
Z80-Boy |
But - you
said yesterday I should try something with make clean ./configure
make |
| 07:19.40 |
Z80-Boy |
I did it and
the make was successful |
| 07:19.47 |
Z80-Boy |
what should
have I figured out after? |
| 07:20.02 |
Z80-Boy |
You said I
should look if there's a -lc flag but I don't know where exactly I
should look. |
| 07:20.17 |
brlcad |
ah, yes -- on
the linker line for bwish |
| 07:20.32 |
Z80-Boy |
now I guess I
do make clean in the src/bwish right to reinvoke the
linker? |
| 07:20.41 |
brlcad |
make
noprod |
| 07:20.48 |
brlcad |
that removes
just the binary |
| 07:20.51 |
brlcad |
so it will
relink |
| 07:21.17 |
Z80-Boy |
the linker
line for bwish begins with libtool is it what you want? |
| 07:22.06 |
Z80-Boy |
If I run it
without --silent, I see there is no -lc passed to the
gc |
| 07:22.07 |
Z80-Boy |
gcc |
| 07:22.15 |
Z80-Boy |
~pastebin |
| 07:22.18 |
ibot |
somebody said
pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the
channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as
well |
| 07:22.20 |
brlcad |
make
LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool" LIBTOOLFLAGS="" |
| 07:22.27 |
Z80-Boy |
~pastebin.bz |
| 07:22.57 |
brlcad |
(which
basically just removes the --silent) |
| 07:23.02 |
Z80-Boy |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6f867799 |
| 07:24.02 |
brlcad |
okay, that's
good |
| 07:24.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Do you need
more information? |
| 07:24.36 |
brlcad |
curious,
yes |
| 07:25.32 |
brlcad |
grep '\$'
../../config.log | head -1 |
| 07:26.03 |
Z80-Boy |
<PROTECTED> |
| 07:26.29 |
brlcad |
have you
modified your configure.ac file? |
| 07:26.35 |
brlcad |
or did you
set CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS? |
| 07:26.47 |
Z80-Boy |
clock@kestrel:~/brlcad-vanilla/src/bwish$
echo $CFLAGS |
| 07:26.47 |
Z80-Boy |
-O3
-fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe |
| 07:26.54 |
Z80-Boy |
CPPFLAGS are
empty |
| 07:27.14 |
Z80-Boy |
I didn't
change configure.ac myself. I maybe ran autogen.sh which I don't
know if it changes configure.ac |
| 07:27.17 |
brlcad |
yeah, fyi
that's no good for doing profile builds -- it can
override |
| 07:27.24 |
Z80-Boy |
aha! |
| 07:27.39 |
Z80-Boy |
does unset
work like export? |
| 07:27.45 |
brlcad |
but thats
also not likely the -lc problem |
| 07:27.49 |
Z80-Boy |
Or does it
unset just for one level of the shells? |
| 07:28.21 |
Z80-Boy |
I'll try it
without the CPPFLAGS |
| 07:29.14 |
Z80-Boy |
Can you try
the two raytraces on your installation? |
| 07:29.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Do you also
get 1:210 difference? |
| 07:29.39 |
brlcad |
no, I really
cannot try them right now |
| 07:29.59 |
brlcad |
that's why I
was asking you for the profiles .. you know, to save some time
.. |
| 07:30.36 |
brlcad |
because
that's all I'll be doing too anyways, I really don't doubt that
it's slower |
| 07:30.50 |
brlcad |
the question
is just why and what if anything can be done |
| 07:30.55 |
Z80-Boy |
OK doing
export CFLAGS="" |
| 07:31.14 |
brlcad |
what problem
are you working on? |
| 07:31.21 |
brlcad |
or what do
you expect that to change? ... |
| 07:31.36 |
Z80-Boy |
now I am
working on the logs you said |
| 07:31.46 |
brlcad |
so not the
-lc issue |
| 07:31.52 |
Z80-Boy |
no |
| 07:31.58 |
brlcad |
okay! |
| 07:32.16 |
brlcad |
you've got a
lot of ADD tendancies sometimes.. :) |
| 07:32.19 |
Z80-Boy |
and now
./configure --enable-profiling --enable-debug
--disable-optimized |
| 07:32.30 |
Z80-Boy |
Attention
Deficiency Disorder? |
| 07:32.44 |
brlcad |
deficit |
| 07:32.59 |
brlcad |
or
AD/HD |
| 07:34.07 |
brlcad |
i.e. focus on
the task at hand ;) |
| 07:36.18 |
Z80-Boy |
We can see
that in a normal adult without ADHD, the glucose metabolism in the
brain is so high that significant amounts of glucose are
metabolised as far as 20 centimeters outside the head: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Adhdbrain.gif |
| 07:36.20 |
brlcad |
anyways, so
the next step, run that configure line, run make, install, run
gprof with the -I options, capture output to file |
| 07:37.01 |
Z80-Boy |
Oh they have
a picture of the Hippocrites |
| 07:37.29 |
Z80-Boy |
"A marked
decrease in academic skills such as reading, spelling, or math is
common with children who have ADHD." |
| 07:37.34 |
Z80-Boy |
I had a
marked increase |
| 07:37.48 |
Z80-Boy |
configure:
error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 07:37.56 |
Z80-Boy |
now I should
run make distclen? |
| 07:38.12 |
brlcad |
sure, but
then you'll need to run autogen.sh again too |
| 07:38.20 |
Z80-Boy |
they say also
rm
../../../../config.cache.openbsd4.0.kestrel.barix.local |
| 07:38.24 |
Z80-Boy |
but that
doesn't work |
| 07:41.54 |
Z80-Boy |
As with many
conditions in the field of psychiatry, ADHD can be explained as a
social construct |
| 07:42.03 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't have
a disorder. They have a social construct ;-) |
| 07:43.15 |
brlcad |
you just
spent 10 minutes on a diversion, interleaved with two different
sorts of code comments, .. and yet still claim to not have issues
with getting distracted? :) |
| 07:43.35 |
Z80-Boy |
I have
problems concentrating both in work and on my personal
projects |
| 07:44.05 |
Z80-Boy |
The only
moment when I don't have problems concentrating is if I go to a
skatepark, snowboarding or surfing |
| 07:44.45 |
Z80-Boy |
Although
these activities are inherently very boring (just a repetitive
motion), I don't have a problem there ;-) |
| 07:45.35 |
brlcad |
back in a
while... look forward to seeing the reports if you can generate
them ;) |
| 07:46.02 |
brlcad |
if anything
even just seeing the profile of the slow one might help by itself
at this point |
| 07:46.10 |
Z80-Boy |
now th
econfigure passed because I deleted the cache |
| 07:46.16 |
brlcad |
as just
mentioning calloc is very suspicious |
| 07:46.31 |
Z80-Boy |
did you see
my comments about calloc possible to optimize? |
| 07:46.46 |
Z80-Boy |
In one place
you call calloc and then overwrite 99% of the buffer with
data |
| 07:46.49 |
brlcad |
yeah, but
they're pointless |
| 07:46.58 |
Z80-Boy |
so the calloc
is used as a brute force method to add a terminator |
| 07:47.03 |
brlcad |
need a
profile that indicates that that is a calloc that matters in the
least |
| 07:47.04 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it a code
that is not executed often? |
| 07:47.48 |
brlcad |
there's no
need to guess whether it's executed often, no matter how educated
you feel it may be -- that is exactly what a profilers is
for |
| 07:48.09 |
brlcad |
in fact
guessing is *usually* wrong and/or misleading |
| 07:50.15 |
brlcad |
it very well
could be the calloc in question, or it could be from a completely
different place in the code (more likely but not impossible that
it's not) |
| 07:51.37 |
Z80-Boy |
Hmm looks
like I have ADHD |
| 07:51.58 |
brlcad |
the profiler
will conveniently tell us exactly where and how bad the code is
called .. good stuff if leveraged |
| 07:53.42 |
Z80-Boy |
we just add
more -E flags? |
| 08:00.02 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-029-074.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:12.05 |
Z80-Boy |
Hehe when I
rename the brlcad directory to brlcad-profiling during make install
then things go astray miserably ;-) |
| 08:23.53 |
Z80-Boy |
Now it says
automake-1.9: ## Internal Error ## |
| 08:24.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Use of
uninitialized value in string eq at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9
line 4673, <GEN0> line 1. |
| 08:24.33 |
Z80-Boy |
How do I cvs
checkout fresh brl-cad? |
| 08:24.55 |
Z80-Boy |
Oh it's
documented I didn't really expect that |
| 08:32.26 |
louipc |
man I can't
find detail specs on collets :( I wanted to draw some
up |
| 09:19.30 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487475E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:30.40 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: just
got it |
| 09:32.18 |
Z80-Boy |
sourceforget
is slow |
| 09:36.01 |
Z80-Boy |
Firefox just
hangs in the middle of scrolling and prints "loading data from
<some damned ad site>" |
| 09:38.23 |
minute-ssh |
Sourceforge
adverts are incredibly annoying, especially given the slow speed
the site is at in general. |
| 09:40.34 |
Z80-Boy |
How can I
make my OS return 127.0.0.1 to
www.google-analytics.com? |
| 09:41.31 |
Z80-Boy |
I have lookup
file bind still it ignores an entry in /etc/hosts |
| 09:43.38 |
minute-ssh |
If it is
really important you could set up your own DNS system. |
| 09:44.01 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't want
to do that |
| 09:44.07 |
Z80-Boy |
I just want
to know why OpenBSD is a piece of shit |
| 09:44.24 |
Z80-Boy |
cause man
resolv.conf says it should work with lookup file bind and I have
this line in /etc/resolv.conf |
| 09:44.24 |
minute-ssh |
Hosts should
work, but you might need to restart\reload something. |
| 09:44.39 |
minute-ssh |
Google
Analytics is slow indeed. |
| 09:45.50 |
Z80-Boy |
OK I'll
reload the system |
| 09:53.34 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-77-7.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:54.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Hehe it works
like charm |
| 09:54.30 |
Z80-Boy |
/etc/hosts: |
| 09:54.32 |
Z80-Boy |
0.0.0.0
google-analytics.com |
| 09:54.32 |
Z80-Boy |
0.0.0.0
ad.doubleclick.net |
| 09:54.35 |
Z80-Boy |
/etc/resolv.conf: |
| 09:54.42 |
Z80-Boy |
lookup file
bind |
| 09:54.51 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: put
it into your system, you'll save truckloads of time! |
| 09:55.01 |
Z80-Boy |
and tell all
friends! |
| 10:18.45 |
*** join/#brlcad minute-ssh
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:20.35 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-198-159.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:26.21 |
*** join/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-198-159.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:50.54 |
*** part/#brlcad thing1
(n=ric@203-59-198-159.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:14.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-77-7.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:08.52 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-180-167.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:42.12 |
*** join/#brlcad nollan
(i=nollan@bnc.kostar.5kr.hos.egn.se) |
| 17:43.22 |
nollan |
hey folks. i
just discovered brlcad. i added it from freebsd ports w/o any
problems, however when i run mged.sh it initialized and then
detaches. but i get no windows.. |
| 17:44.44 |
nollan |
any
suggestions what i should do? |
| 17:46.19 |
yukonbob |
nollan: what
does the mged.sh file contain? I just run an mged
binary.... |
| 17:46.43 |
louipc |
yeah I don't
have an mged.sh on my system |
| 17:46.59 |
louipc |
but I'm in
linux and I built BRLCAD myself |
| 17:48.12 |
nollan |
yukonbob, it
sets variables like path and brlcad home path.. then it runs mged
binary |
| 17:52.37 |
louipc |
try inputting
the commands without the script and see what happens |
| 17:52.48 |
nollan |
how? |
| 17:52.54 |
nollan |
[frodo]-[/home/nollan]-$
/usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 17:52.54 |
nollan |
Initializing
and backgrounding, please wait...Detached |
| 17:52.54 |
thing0 |
magic |
| 17:53.21 |
nollan |
where should
i put the commands? |
| 17:53.37 |
nollan |
there is no
window nor dialog boxes, nothing |
| 17:53.44 |
louipc |
yeah mged is
supposed to detach |
| 17:53.53 |
yukonbob |
nollan: try
running a [s|k|p]trace on the binary and see what it
shows... |
| 17:54.31 |
louipc |
nollan: try
to give it a model on the command line maybe... |
| 17:54.44 |
nollan |
to open you
mean |
| 17:54.47 |
louipc |
yea |
| 17:55.10 |
louipc |
there's some
in brlcad/share/db |
| 17:55.23 |
louipc |
i'm not sure
what the exact path would be on your system ... |
| 17:55.32 |
nollan |
ok i'll
try |
| 17:55.39 |
nollan |
ktracing
now |
| 17:57.01 |
nollan |
hmm how do i
check the ktrace.out file for errors? |
| 17:57.10 |
yukonbob |
kdump |
less |
| 17:57.44 |
nollan |
ok |
| 17:59.55 |
nollan |
it says
something about /etc/libmap.conf |
| 18:00.30 |
yukonbob |
nollan: maybe
"kdump > mytmpfile" and post the results to a
pastebin... |
| 18:01.12 |
nollan |
ok, but it's
huge |
| 18:01.35 |
yukonbob |
...then just
that last relevant bits? |
| 18:02.29 |
yukonbob |
you know what
I mean when I say "pastebin" right? Don't flood this channel w/ a
cut/paste... |
| 18:03.03 |
yukonbob |
~pastebin |
| 18:03.04 |
ibot |
from memory,
pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the
channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as
well |
| 18:03.15 |
nollan |
http://pastebin.ca/735505 |
| 18:03.32 |
nollan |
sure i've
used it before. lots of times.. |
| 18:03.46 |
nollan |
mostrly for
reading thou |
| 18:05.40 |
yukonbob |
? I can't see
any signs that mged quit |
| 18:06.07 |
yukonbob |
ps aux | grep
mged |
| 18:06.18 |
nollan |
i'm browsing
throu it now and theres a lot of libraries not found... |
| 18:06.27 |
nollan |
i guess it's
a dependency issue |
| 18:06.53 |
nollan |
yeah it
starts, but gives me no windows or dialogboxes |
| 18:07.04 |
yukonbob |
ports should
handle all that -- and mged would complain on the cmdline if it
couldn't find what it wanted... |
| 18:07.23 |
nollan |
k |
| 18:07.36 |
yukonbob |
the 'not
found' issues might be first (or second, etc) attempts to find what
it's looking for, until it finds them later... |
| 18:07.49 |
nollan |
yeah. i
guess |
| 18:08.09 |
yukonbob |
what window
manager are you running? |
| 18:08.11 |
nollan |
i didn't
compile it thou -i pkg_add -r it |
| 18:08.14 |
nollan |
fluxbox |
| 18:09.51 |
yukonbob |
nollan: can
you run bwish? |
| 18:10.16 |
nollan |
dunno is it
included in brlcad? |
| 18:10.22 |
yukonbob |
try it and
see ;) |
| 18:10.35 |
nollan |
i got a
dialog |
| 18:10.36 |
yukonbob |
(yes, it is
part of brlcad) |
| 18:10.42 |
nollan |
and a
window |
| 18:10.53 |
nollan |
and a
bwish> - prompt |
| 18:10.54 |
yukonbob |
are you
running Xinerama? |
| 18:11.04 |
yukonbob |
( or some
dual-head monitor setup?) |
| 18:11.09 |
nollan |
nope, never
heard of it |
| 18:11.15 |
nollan |
nope no
dualhead |
| 18:12.10 |
nollan |
w8 i'll try a
thing brb |
| 18:20.30 |
nollan |
it works now.
i had to remove some options form xorg.conf |
| 18:20.34 |
nollan |
thanks |
| 18:20.49 |
yukonbob |
nice! |
| 18:20.51 |
yukonbob |
have fun
:) |
| 18:21.08 |
nollan |
thanks! i'm
totally new.. |
| 18:21.10 |
nollan |
:) |
| 18:21.29 |
louipc |
odd what
options were those? |
| 18:21.45 |
yukonbob |
DontShowMged
= YES |
| 18:23.56 |
nollan |
haha ahh,
experimental stuff. |
| 18:24.40 |
yukonbob |
paste them
here -- might come up again for somebody else... |
| 18:24.49 |
yukonbob |
"here" ==
pastebin ;) |
| 18:24.54 |
nollan |
pageflips
agpmode depthmoves renderaccel |
| 18:25.03 |
yukonbob |
that's
it? |
| 18:25.05 |
nollan |
ati
driver |
| 18:25.07 |
nollan |
yeah |
| 18:25.10 |
yukonbob |
hrmm. |
| 18:35.42 |
nollan |
however when
i load examples - they are all empty |
| 18:36.25 |
yukonbob |
'ls' to see
lists of 'objects, regions, groups' ,etc, and 'e [somename]' to
show it... |
| 18:38.07 |
yukonbob |
there are a
few .pdfs you'll be interested in -- a 3-page cheat for mged, and a
Tutorial "Principles of Effective Modelling", esp... |
| 18:38.09 |
louipc |
nollan: if
you load the file via command line then it should display
automatically |
| 18:40.02 |
yukonbob |
nollan:
ftp.brlcad.org/pub/BRL-CAD/Documentation |
| 18:40.05 |
louipc |
nollan: type
tops in mged to see the top level parts of the model |
| 18:40.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@217-162-108-140.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:41.25 |
nollan |
mged> load
/usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g |
| 18:41.25 |
nollan |
Error:
couldn't load file
"/usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g":
/usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g: invalid file
format |
| 18:41.31 |
louipc |
nollan: use
draw or e in mged to display the objects |
| 18:41.35 |
louipc |
!! |
| 18:42.25 |
nollan |
i guess i'm
off to the docs |
| 18:42.26 |
nollan |
:) |
| 18:42.52 |
louipc |
you're using
a really old version too :P |
| 18:43.06 |
nollan |
ok. that was
the one in ports |
| 18:43.17 |
yukonbob |
nollan: what
version is it? |
| 18:43.28 |
yukonbob |
oh --
7.8.2... |
| 18:43.50 |
nollan |
pkg_info |
grep brl |
| 18:43.51 |
nollan |
brlcad-7.8.2
CSG modelling system from the US Ball |
| 18:46.40 |
Z80-Boy |
oh yeah US
Ball |
| 18:46.52 |
Z80-Boy |
let's play US
Ball! |
| 18:47.09 |
yukonbob |
US Ballroom
Dancing Laboratory |
| 19:05.06 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 19:35.08 |
brlcad |
heh,
ball |
| 19:35.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: include the intaval-g.py
script in the dist |
| 19:35.43 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: hm,
dunno what you changed, but those profiles are useless |
| 19:35.51 |
brlcad |
they didn't
have any numbers |
| 19:37.20 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: did
you try to reproduce the rendering times? |
| 19:44.10 |
brlcad |
nollan: load
isn't the right command, that's the command to load tcl/tk
extensions |
| 19:44.16 |
brlcad |
opendb would
be the command |
| 19:45.23 |
brlcad |
and brl-cad
.g files are "multi-geometry" files with potentially many models
per file, so there's no "default" object that will display when you
open a .g file -- you can either use the geometry browser or run
the "tops" command to see the top-level objects that you can
display |
| 19:46.30 |
nollan |
ah.
right |
| 20:04.16 |
*** join/#brlcad luckyshot
(n=lucky@CABLE-72-53-76-204.cia.com) |
| 20:04.24 |
luckyshot |
Hey
guys, |
| 20:04.32 |
luckyshot |
Does anyone
in here use UGS NX series? |
| 20:25.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/fb/pix-fb.c): accept karel's sf
patch 1802016, which provides a -p option to pix-fb causing the
application to pause the specified number of seconds before exiting
and closing the framebuffer. |
| 20:27.25 |
brlcad |
luckyshot:
i've used it before |
| 20:27.39 |
brlcad |
this is
certainly not an nx support channel though ;) |
| 20:28.10 |
brlcad |
if you want
to fund the same level that you give to UGS to BRL-CAD, then I'd be
glad to help ya though ;) |
| 20:56.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487475E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:01.08 |
luckyshot |
lol |
| 21:01.26 |
luckyshot |
bclcad, just
wanted to know why nx5 files wont open in nx4 |
| 21:01.29 |
luckyshot |
its very
frustrating |
| 21:36.37 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p548775CF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:39.06 |
``Erik |
erm, cuz the
format changed? |
| 21:39.16 |
``Erik |
they, uh,
added shit? |
| 21:45.34 |
luckyshot |
file format
is the same |
| 21:46.04 |
``Erik |
then why is
it 5 instead of 4.1? :D *duck* |
| 21:46.30 |
``Erik |
this ain't a
unigraphics help channel, I've never used ug... tried installing it
once, that's it:) |
| 21:58.09 |
brlcad |
if the format
is the "same" then it's not an "nx5 file", it's something else ..
they break compatibility just like most other major apps when
there's a new major version |
| 22:01.11 |
luckyshot |
i
guess |
| 22:01.25 |
luckyshot |
ms word still
is backwrds compatible with older versions |
| 22:06.24 |
brlcad |
only to an
extent |
| 22:06.31 |
brlcad |
you can
create new versions that are not |
| 22:06.42 |
brlcad |
word simply
hasn't *had* a new release in years |
| 22:07.25 |
brlcad |
they used to
break compatibility all the time, 95 not working in 97, 2000 not
working on either, etc |
| 22:07.40 |
luckyshot |
oh
okay |
| 22:08.00 |
luckyshot |
is brl cad
easy to use? |
| 22:08.06 |
brlcad |
not
really |
| 22:08.17 |
brlcad |
at least not
until you've gone up the learning curve |
| 22:08.22 |
luckyshot |
nx4 and 5 are
extrmely simple |
| 22:08.27 |
brlcad |
it's easy to
use, but not easy to learn |
| 22:08.29 |
luckyshot |
are they of
the same level of difficulty? |
| 22:09.04 |
brlcad |
give it a
try, some find it exceptionally familiar |
| 22:09.17 |
brlcad |
the tutorial
book on the website might give you an idea of what to
expect |
| 22:09.20 |
luckyshot |
definitely |
| 22:09.22 |
luckyshot |
does it work
in vista? |
| 22:09.29 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 22:09.53 |
brlcad |
only one of
brl-cad's 400+ tools, but one of the most prominent and with a
gui |
| 22:10.21 |
brlcad |
I don't know
that anyone has even tried under vista |
| 22:10.33 |
luckyshot |
ok |
| 22:12.25 |
brlcad |
howdy
bob |
| 22:13.18 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: hey
-- what's shaking? |
| 22:47.05 |
brlcad |
howdy
yukonbob -- most of the cfd/fea tools are indirect or
generic |
| 22:47.27 |
brlcad |
like being
able to extract a mesh of given geometry, or the Cubit exporter, or
voxelization of geometry, etc |
| 23:00.28 |
yukonbob |
note: anybody
who posts links to images of havoc is subject to being banned from
#brlcad... |
| 23:00.46 |
yukonbob |
;) |
| 23:03.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through
Lesson 11 |
| 23:03.48 |
poolio_ |
Woah, has
Irix disappeared? |
| 23:04.55 |
starseeker |
Wouldn't that
be an awesome tag line - BRL-CAD - able to simulate moon
shots! |
| 23:05.51 |
yukonbob |
poolio_: :)
... one day some time ago I threatened to reach through the
internet and take his modem away if he posted another havoc image,
and haven't seen another since... |
| 23:07.11 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
heh, is their .g support supposed to be for BRL-CAD or something
else? |
| 23:07.39 |
brlcad |
very possible
they might have support for v4 .g format from interactions over a
decade ago |
| 23:07.39 |
starseeker |
I'm sure it's
for something else - I just noticed it in their list of "supported"
file extensions |
| 23:07.48 |
starseeker |
oh,
really? |
| 23:08.01 |
starseeker |
huh - is
there a v4 .g file around somewhere? |
| 23:08.39 |
brlcad |
run dbupgrade
-r on a v5 |
| 23:09.09 |
starseeker |
righto... |
| 23:10.54 |
starseeker |
Interesting... |
| 23:11.09 |
starseeker |
It does add
it as an object, but doesn't display anything |
| 23:11.37 |
starseeker |
Says it is a
polygonal mesh with zero cells and zero points |
| 23:17.34 |
Z80-Boy |
starseeker: I
guess they had, but they had to use a boolean operator and that
made it 210x slower so they couldn't make it into the launch so
they dropped it |
| 23:18.21 |
Z80-Boy |
Or they
realized that when they mirror the foam, it gets 3 times as big and
changes shape ;-) |
| 23:18.23 |
brlcad |
sounds like
it's a busted parser |
| 23:18.34 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
sorry, just joking :) |
| 23:18.41 |
starseeker |
in
paraview? |
| 23:19.02 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: I
have the profiles done here now |
| 23:19.08 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: and
the ratio? |
| 23:19.10 |
brlcad |
*with* useful
results :) |
| 23:19.12 |
Z80-Boy |
1:210? |
| 23:19.18 |
brlcad |
dude, get
over the ratio |
| 23:19.24 |
Z80-Boy |
more than
210? |
| 23:19.38 |
brlcad |
i already
told you i didn't doubt that one is slower |
| 23:19.58 |
Z80-Boy |
man you'll
become a hero for speeding up the U.S. Army development 200
times |
| 23:20.05 |
brlcad |
and it would
be expected that it's a little slower, but not necessarily
drasticly |
| 23:20.21 |
Z80-Boy |
That's
good |
| 23:20.25 |
brlcad |
two orders
implies something else is wrong |
| 23:20.30 |
Z80-Boy |
because now
you can poke at it and don't have to ask me |
| 23:20.51 |
Z80-Boy |
which
function does consume it? |
| 23:20.59 |
brlcad |
it's not
good, it means i'm not working on other things that are really
begging for attention as well :P |
| 23:21.28 |
brlcad |
so no time
was saved in the end |
| 23:21.38 |
Z80-Boy |
which
function did gprof say consumes the most? |
| 23:21.38 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
help anyone for everything to be in my hands :) |
| 23:22.02 |
Z80-Boy |
is it
calloc? |
| 23:22.24 |
brlcad |
I'd suggest
working more with gprof yourself to get the answer to that, so next
time you can generate the profile :) somthing went wrong in those
steps .. maybe an openbsd gprof problem |
| 23:23.36 |
Z80-Boy |
which
function is it? |
| 23:24.43 |
Z80-Boy |
I have to go
sleeping if I don't want to be zombie tomorrow |
| 23:24.44 |
Z80-Boy |
good
night |
| 23:24.47 |
brlcad |
cya |
| 23:25.08 |
brlcad |
he can be a
selfish lil punk sometimes |
| 23:25.23 |
brlcad |
good kid,
lots of good efforts, but impatient to no end |
| 23:27.12 |
brlcad |
no |
| 23:27.14 |
brlcad |
hell no
:) |
| 23:27.17 |
brlcad |
not yet at
least |
| 23:27.37 |
yukonbob |
(that you
know of) |
| 23:27.45 |
brlcad |
they're not
very productive to my coding and lifestyle habits right now, maybe
in a few years :) |
| 23:27.53 |
starseeker |
"who needs
kids when one has Z80-Boy on IRC" |
| 23:36.28 |
brlcad |
mmm.. lisp
experience could certainly come in handy ;-) |
| 23:36.51 |
brlcad |
for the new
modeler, lisp was on my list of languages we need to support near
the beginning |
| 23:37.03 |
brlcad |
simply due to
the autocad crowd |
| 23:38.00 |
brlcad |
probably lisp
and python for non-interactive; and tcl and bash for
interactive |
| 23:38.19 |
yukonbob |
tcl inter +
non-inter |
| 23:38.27 |
yukonbob |
source
"mycoolfile.tcl" |
| 23:38.28 |
yukonbob |
;) |
| 23:38.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, tcl is
one of the few that can probably do both |
| 23:39.12 |
yukonbob |
this talk of
py/tcl/lisp* bring us back to the idea of SWIG |
| 23:39.15 |
starseeker |
Doing both is
something I see more in research languages - they like the REPL
prompts |
| 23:39.16 |
brlcad |
and not feel
like ass in the process ;) |
| 23:40.01 |
brlcad |
yeah, but
then the idea of an ml prompt make me shudder |
| 23:40.07 |
starseeker |
Lisp is
really good at it, given a good compiler - there are some amusing
stories about early web servers in lisp where the devs would get a
support call, fix it on the phone in the running image, and then
ask the customer to do a page refresh :-) |
| 23:40.26 |
yukonbob |
*given a good
compiler |
| 23:40.42 |
starseeker |
There are a
few. Allegro I think is pretty good, and sbcl on the free
side |
| 23:41.03 |
starseeker |
Clisp is
kinda dog slow, but has the advantage of running everywhere under
the sun |
| 23:41.56 |
starseeker |
Scheme is
regarded as a type of Lisp |
| 23:42.17 |
starseeker |
Scheme stays
small and doesn't specify all that much - it lets extensions fight
it out |
| 23:43.08 |
starseeker |
Common Lisp
is the opposite - it's a huge spec |
| 23:43.11 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
right -- but if somebody is used to all the facilities of Common
Lisp, scheme is not Common Lisp.. |
| 23:43.16 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 23:43.21 |
starseeker |
True
:-) |
| 23:43.28 |
starseeker |
but the core
language principles are the same |
| 23:43.40 |
yukonbob |
(are (they
(indeed))) |
| 23:43.50 |
starseeker |
Scheme is "a
lisp", Fortran most definitely is not |
| 23:44.13 |
yukonbob |
could wait
for Paul Graham to finish Arc. |
| 23:44.16 |
brlcad |
hm, so calloc
didn't even make a blip on the profile |
| 23:44.30 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
Only if you can code from the grave |
| 23:44.37 |
brlcad |
looks like
98.9% of the extra time is spent doing the boolean evaluation,
exactly like john said |
| 23:44.42 |
yukonbob |
?Is he
dead |
| 23:45.44 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: a
brlcad major mode would be freaking awesome :) |
| 23:46.06 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: By
the time Arc is done, you probably will be ;-) |
| 23:46.13 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
haha |
| 23:46.23 |
brlcad |
that'd be a
great "summer of code" project :) |
| 23:47.00 |
starseeker |
Emacs has a
lot of... erm... personality |
| 23:47.28 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: one
of first things I do in mged is "array set env [list EDITOR
xemacs]" |
| 23:48.11 |
yukonbob |
... could
skip that and just use xemacs -- that _would_ be very
cool... |
| 23:48.12 |
brlcad |
hm, can't you
just set env(EDITOR) xemacs ? |
| 23:48.59 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: could
"env EDITOR=xemacs mged", or set EDITOR in my .profile,
sure... |
| 23:52.13 |
yukonbob |
heh: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ajwatson/cat-powered.gif |
| 23:53.45 |
starseeker |
now THAT'S
hardcore ;-) |
| 23:54.10 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: no,
I mean as tcl syntax inside mged |
| 23:54.30 |
brlcad |
is there any
difference between "array set env [list EDITOR xemacs]" and "set
env(EDITOR) xemacs"? |
| 23:54.40 |
brlcad |
i've never
seen the array form |
| 23:55.25 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
you're right... |
| 23:56.00 |
brlcad |
wasn't trying
to be right, it's informative to me too :) |
| 23:56.13 |
yukonbob |
you're still
correct ;) |
| 23:56.24 |
yukonbob |
both
work |
| 23:56.32 |
brlcad |
wonder if
there is any technical difference |
| 23:56.56 |
yukonbob |
re: emacs --
are you thinking of completely working from w/i emacs, and have it
interface w/ rt? |
| 23:58.04 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 00:08.20 |
``Erik |
*yawrn* |
| 00:11.04 |
yukonbob |
~lart
yawning |
| 00:11.04 |
ibot |
executes killall -KILL yawning |
| 01:10.50 |
*** part/#brlcad nollan
(i=nollan@bnc.kostar.5kr.hos.egn.se) |
| 01:25.13 |
*** join/#brlcad jack|ass
(n=jack@c-67-189-104-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:26.29 |
jack|ass |
Is there a
list of prerequisites for BRL? I'm trying to compile 7.10.2 and
get an error about it expecting a specifier-quantifier-list before
XVisualInfo in dm_obj.c. |
| 01:26.41 |
jack|ass |
I do have the
xutil-dev package installed though. |
| 01:32.51 |
``Erik |
there are
prereqs, btu most have the source included in src/other |
| 01:33.10 |
``Erik |
if you're
getting an X11 error, it's probably a bug in our ocnifgure
:( |
| 01:33.59 |
jack|ass |
it looks like
it's including the source. :-/ |
| 01:34.03 |
jack|ass |
that's what I
was afraid of. |
| 01:36.35 |
jack|ass |
I'm looking
for something kinda like autocad to do some simple modeling of a
wooden project box. BRL looks like it fits the bill. |
| 01:36.36 |
jack|ass |
AH. |
| 01:36.37 |
jack|ass |
got
it. |
| 01:37.04 |
jack|ass |
the configure
script that it comes with was the culprit methinks. I re-read the
documentation and ran autogen to make it create one for my
system. |
| 01:37.51 |
jack|ass |
I wonder if
removing the configure file by default to force people to run
autogen might prevent people compiling from source from hitting
that? |
| 02:41.52 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: you
much details about the bwish command, specifically, what it offers
over the typical wish? |
| 02:42.30 |
yukonbob |
s/you
much/you know/ |
| 02:50.07 |
brlcad |
it has the
brl-cad built-in commands & libs preloaded |
| 02:50.25 |
brlcad |
e.g.
itcl/itk/iwidgets/... are all preloaded |
| 02:50.35 |
brlcad |
as well as
some brl-cad-specific commands |
| 02:50.41 |
brlcad |
bu_brlcad_data . for example |
| 05:13.20 |
yukonbob |
I'm looking
at setting it up as a loadable module -- I've got it loading w/o
error, but haven't exported the commands... |
| 05:13.59 |
yukonbob |
that way I
hope to be able to use the canonical wish/tclsh and have it Just
Work(tm) |
| 05:15.47 |
yukonbob |
*where
"setting it up" == setting up libtclcad |
| 05:24.06 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch) |
| 05:27.33 |
brlcad |
cool, that's
be awesome |
| 05:28.16 |
brlcad |
the big one
is automatically setting up autopath -- it needs to do that onload
.. and to load it, though, it needs the auto_path :) |
| 05:28.22 |
brlcad |
interesting
to hear how you deal with that :) |
| 07:20.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:55.52 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 08:26.40 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: is
reverse perspective possible in BRL-CAD? |
| 08:27.29 |
Z80-Boy |
i. e. instead
of shooting parallel rays (no perspective, isometric) or divergent
rays (perspective), shooting convergent rays? |
| 11:35.32 |
``Erik |
the rt front
end doesn't have anything like that, but there's nothing stopping
the libraries... just requires some code laid down :/ |
| 11:44.58 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-030-082.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:51.00 |
*** join/#brlcad thing0
(n=ric@203-59-180-167.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:19.22 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/doom0.jpg
http://www.rayforce.net/doom1.jpg
etc. In case anyone is curious of the friendly and simple
marriage |
| 12:20.08 |
Maloeran |
Thanks Erik
:) |
| 12:20.24 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/doom4.jpg
Wedding cake, yar |
| 12:20.50 |
``Erik |
so you
actually bothered with a ceremony instead of just
eloping? |
| 12:21.09 |
Maloeran |
It was
somewhat required, but it lasts about 3 minutes |
| 12:21.39 |
``Erik |
I thought the
US legal varient was just walking up to a counter and signing some
paper and forking over $20 |
| 12:21.51 |
Maloeran |
Oh, we
married in Montreal |
| 12:22.30 |
``Erik |
when my
brother got married, they did a ceremony with a wiccan priestess at
a haunted hotel, cuz they're nerds... then we threw 'em in the car
and drove 'em by city hall and they walked in and walked out a
couple minutes later legal, then off to pizza and beer
O.o |
| 12:22.40 |
Maloeran |
Then we went
to some nice chalet I had rented, with friends for the
week-end |
| 12:22.52 |
Maloeran |
Cute
:) |
| 12:23.02 |
``Erik |
get this,
they found a wiccan priestess and haunted hotel... in arkansas...
that held their wedding on halloween. |
| 12:23.08 |
``Erik |
in
arkansas. |
| 12:23.15 |
``Erik |
without any
lynchings |
| 12:23.17 |
``Erik |
*boggle* |
| 12:23.43 |
Maloeran |
Mmhm. I think
things are a bit more strict in Montreal regarding what a legal
marriage is |
| 12:23.43 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: are
you the guy in the pictures? |
| 12:23.47 |
``Erik |
(of course,
the town is an "art town" with a big halloween tradition and major
blgt turnout, the rednecks would've been outnumbered) |
| 12:23.48 |
Maloeran |
Yes
Z80-Boy |
| 12:23.55 |
``Erik |
yeah, I think
mal is the one in the brown dress |
| 12:24.07 |
``Erik |
hahaha |
| 12:24.28 |
Maloeran |
Well you are
in luck, this is not quite a "true" marriage :) |
| 12:24.30 |
``Erik |
cover your
hiney, alexis, karel is lookin' for lovin' :D *duck* |
| 12:24.40 |
Z80-Boy |
alexis? |
| 12:24.49 |
Maloeran |
In french,
it's a male name |
| 12:25.01 |
Z80-Boy |
I know
another guy called alexis and he's very cute |
| 12:25.23 |
``Erik |
yes, most
masculine words in french are feminine in other languages *cough*
O:-) |
| 12:25.45 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: no
worries, you obviously suffer from the women attraction
syndrome |
| 12:25.54 |
``Erik |
(and in
german, the feminine stuff is so masculine it has beards and well
fucking beat your ass down) |
| 12:26.03 |
Maloeran |
What's that
"syndrome" exactly, Z80-Boy? |
| 12:26.10 |
Maloeran |
Oh nevermind,
I get it |
| 12:26.21 |
Z80-Boy |
well it
usually starts on the primary school with a preoccupation towards
girls |
| 12:26.30 |
Z80-Boy |
and ends up
in horrible things like marriage etc. |
| 12:26.46 |
Z80-Boy |
It's so
common they didn't even bother to put it into DSM-IV |
| 12:27.02 |
``Erik |
hum, I don't
think marriage is so bad... |
| 12:27.05 |
Maloeran |
Right. I'm
still a bit sleepy from that week-end... She actually managed to
get me to drink quite a bit, for the first time in my
life |
| 12:27.11 |
Z80-Boy |
There are
only 2 ways out of marriage - a divorce or death |
| 12:27.23 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: I'm
just joking... |
| 12:27.39 |
``Erik |
I even
'belong' to a local organization fighting for blgt rights for
marraige, even though I'm straight *shrug* |
| 12:28.41 |
``Erik |
um, I'm sure
if you'd go outside, you could find a boytoy pretty
easily |
| 12:28.43 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 12:29.16 |
Z80-Boy |
yeah but I
don't want a boytoy |
| 12:29.17 |
Maloeran |
I really
don't know much on the topic, but I would assume that things should
be fairly simple between two guys |
| 12:29.31 |
Z80-Boy |
yeah getting
a guy for sex is quite easy |
| 12:29.38 |
Z80-Boy |
you don't
have to do anything for it at all |
| 12:29.49 |
``Erik |
I mean, I
barely ever step out, and have been "up on" on too many women in
the last couple years |
| 12:30.08 |
Z80-Boy |
I was once in
a shower room in a swimming pool and it was end of the opening time
and the showers were broken so I had to go from one to another to
get the last bit of warm water |
| 12:30.24 |
Maloeran |
Eh Erik, it's
much rarer for me |
| 12:30.32 |
Z80-Boy |
there was
another guy and when I got to him he misinterpreted it as a signal
and tried to simply grab my dick |
| 12:30.40 |
Maloeran |
I think it's
related to a complete lack of skills to "flirt" or
whatever |
| 12:30.56 |
``Erik |
between that,
'world of warcraft', and getting upset at work and drinking myself
fucktarded |
| 12:30.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 12:31.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Fortunately
my reflex was faste so he didn't manage to touch me |
| 12:31.21 |
Maloeran |
That's a bit
disturbing, Z80-Boy, way too quick and spontaneous |
| 12:31.25 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran:
it's related to the simple skill of not being picky |
| 12:31.55 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: but
that's how it works between gays |
| 12:31.59 |
Maloeran |
I think it's
mostly related to the fact that I don't meet new girls at all in my
daily routine |
| 12:32.06 |
Z80-Boy |
if you like
each other and want to have just sex there is no
barrier |
| 12:32.06 |
Maloeran |
I
see. |
| 12:32.21 |
Z80-Boy |
you don't
have to buy flower movie tickets dinners nothing |
| 12:32.21 |
``Erik |
you can get
that with girls easily enough |
| 12:32.54 |
``Erik |
the risk is
if you stick with 'em too long |
| 12:33.00 |
``Erik |
hit 'em and
ditch 'em *cough* O:-) |
| 12:33.08 |
``Erik |
ooh, 3some,
nice |
| 12:33.09 |
Z80-Boy |
The problem
is I don't want just sex |
| 12:33.15 |
Maloeran |
No Erik, I'm
not going :) |
| 12:33.20 |
``Erik |
... |
| 12:33.40 |
``Erik |
so, uh, your
wedding gift... is... to send your chick and her lesbo lover to a
spa... |
| 12:33.41 |
``Erik |
um |
| 12:33.45 |
``Erik |
you may've
fucked up |
| 12:33.46 |
Maloeran |
Ahah |
| 12:33.51 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik:
lol |
| 12:34.28 |
Z80-Boy |
and to do the
"flirting" stuff... omg that's so boring |
| 12:34.42 |
Z80-Boy |
talking about
nothing going to boring places like cafeterias.. |
| 12:35.18 |
Z80-Boy |
or like going
to gay student "evenings with dinner" |
| 12:35.20 |
Maloeran |
Erik, again,
this is mostly an arranged mariage ; we are close and very good
friends, but not quite up to the "spouse" status except in the
legal sense |
| 12:35.35 |
Z80-Boy |
You have
basically 20-30 quite intelligent gay students which are either too
ugly or not intelligent enough |
| 12:35.40 |
``Erik |
I know, I'm
just mockin' ya :D |
| 12:35.46 |
Z80-Boy |
Plus all of
them are, without an exception, boring |
| 12:35.49 |
``Erik |
sorry, I've
been drinkin' this morning *cough* |
| 12:35.58 |
Z80-Boy |
talk about
politics, travel their studies and parents etc. |
| 12:36.35 |
Maloeran |
Z80-Boy, I
actually greatly enjoy such times with my "wife" |
| 12:36.39 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: so
you don't have to care about if your bed frame is strong enough to
withstand the dynamic load? |
| 12:36.42 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-003-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:36.59 |
Maloeran |
Z80-Boy,
probably not on a regular basis. Besides, I'm soon leaving for
Australia for a month ( alone ) |
| 12:37.34 |
Maloeran |
Z80-Boy, the
things you describe are the foundations of friendship |
| 12:37.46 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran:
doing boring stuff together? |
| 12:38.12 |
Maloeran |
If you ever
want something more than casual and brief encounters, you may want
to explore the kind of activities that would lead to real
friendship |
| 12:38.21 |
Z80-Boy |
which
are? |
| 12:38.46 |
Maloeran |
Restaurants,
talking about a variety of topics, about any kind of activity done
together? |
| 12:38.52 |
Z80-Boy |
omg |
| 12:38.55 |
Z80-Boy |
better be
alone there |
| 12:38.59 |
Z80-Boy |
then |
| 12:39.09 |
Z80-Boy |
anything but
restaurants please |
| 12:39.25 |
Maloeran |
Then cook
together |
| 12:41.17 |
Z80-Boy |
that needs a
stove |
| 12:41.22 |
Z80-Boy |
and stove is
usually in a flat |
| 12:41.33 |
Z80-Boy |
and it's not
a good idea to stick untrusted people into your flat
right? |
| 12:42.56 |
Maloeran |
I assume you
generally have met the person once or twice before that point, but
I don't really see a problem with that |
| 12:43.01 |
Z80-Boy |
and then I
can imagine all the exchanges like "hey you left sticky spots on
the kitchen floor", "the kitchen tiles are yucky", "you poured
water on the bathroom floor", "you should sweep the living room",
"there are black smudge marks on the balcony from your experiments"
etc. |
| 12:43.31 |
Z80-Boy |
you should
turn the computer off overnight the fan sound is disturbing
me... |
| 12:44.42 |
Z80-Boy |
your electric
home trainer is really crazy you should throw it into
trash... |
| 12:44.54 |
Z80-Boy |
you spend too
much time on ronja development and too little time with
me... |
| 12:45.14 |
Z80-Boy |
I want chairs
like this and you want chairs like that... |
| 12:45.45 |
Z80-Boy |
good that
gays at least don't have to have children |
| 12:45.48 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
you'll receive comments like that just for inviting a friend to
cook and eat together |
| 12:46.08 |
Z80-Boy |
no but I mean
like in the relationship |
| 12:49.05 |
Maloeran |
For some
reason... I imagine it can be awkward to develop true friendship
with guys, nothing more, when you are gay |
| 12:49.36 |
Z80-Boy |
no it's
easy |
| 12:49.50 |
Z80-Boy |
I just can't
find anyone who's both pretty and like a friend with me |
| 12:50.07 |
Z80-Boy |
I know loads
of hetero guy who if they were gay and wanted me I would just jump
on them |
| 12:50.30 |
Z80-Boy |
if they like
computer electronics DIY etc. then it's fine |
| 12:51.36 |
Maloeran |
Ah yes, the
population pool to pick from is smaller |
| 12:51.49 |
Z80-Boy |
and everyone
is camp and boring ;-) |
| 12:51.53 |
Z80-Boy |
I hate
camp |
| 12:52.01 |
Maloeran |
So do I Erik,
but I think they all are the girlfriend of a friend :) |
| 12:52.41 |
``Erik |
and I have a
few gay friends *shrug* there's no issue as long as both parties
accept there's no romantic possibility |
| 12:52.53 |
Z80-Boy |
I was in a
dance club and it was fun except that |
| 12:52.56 |
Z80-Boy |
- it was too
loud |
| 12:53.04 |
Z80-Boy |
- there was
smoke instead of air |
| 12:53.11 |
``Erik |
heh, I wear
earplugs when I go to concerts :( I'm lame |
| 12:53.20 |
Z80-Boy |
- the people
looked like they are pretending they are having fun but they are
actually dead bored |
| 12:53.31 |
``Erik |
and I get
upset when they give me the guinness in a fucking plastic
cup |
| 12:53.32 |
Z80-Boy |
- everyone
looked like exactly the kind of personality I don't
want |
| 12:53.41 |
Maloeran |
Ahah
Z80-Boy |
| 12:53.51 |
``Erik |
but when ya
got children jumping around like idiots, it's probably better to
have plastic... broken glass ain't so fun |
| 12:53.53 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: no
you just aren't recklessly abandon stupid about your
health |
| 12:54.24 |
``Erik |
I d'no, I've
managed to do a number on my health |
| 12:54.52 |
Z80-Boy |
Skatepark is
fun |
| 12:54.53 |
``Erik |
I cut off a
finger, I rolled a car, I eat too much red meat and don't eat
enough vegetables, I drink too much booze, I jam on my own guitar
without earplugs... |
| 12:55.00 |
Z80-Boy |
people there
are not aggressive and they are helpful |
| 12:55.07 |
``Erik |
but I have
tenitis in my right ear from having tubes several times as an
infant |
| 12:55.09 |
Z80-Boy |
they smoke
but you don't have to breath the smoke |
| 12:55.25 |
``Erik |
so loud
becomes physically painful in my right ear, when just loud in my
left |
| 12:55.32 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: I
have tenitis too and just from nothing |
| 12:56.05 |
Z80-Boy |
o rmaybe it's
an actute life-threatening hypochondria |
| 12:56.06 |
Maloeran |
What's a
tenitis? Wikipedia doesn't know, therefore it doesn't
exist |
| 12:56.10 |
Z80-Boy |
tinnitus |
| 12:56.14 |
Z80-Boy |
it's ringing
in ear |
| 12:56.29 |
Maloeran |
Ah,
thanks |
| 12:56.47 |
Z80-Boy |
the ear has
like acousto-neural resonant circuits which are tuned just below
the oscillations and the gain is controlled by downward path from
the brain |
| 12:56.49 |
``Erik |
mine sounds
kinda staticky, almost like hearing your blood flow in your
ear |
| 12:56.54 |
Z80-Boy |
if the
control signal is wrong it starts oscillating |
| 12:57.04 |
``Erik |
and it's
really set off by the frequency that vaccuum cleaners happen to
emit |
| 12:57.09 |
Z80-Boy |
after you get
drunk when you are exhausted when you don't sleep enough when you
damage the ear etc. |
| 12:57.32 |
Z80-Boy |
But it makes
sense. Every sensitive amplifier ends up producing
noise |
| 12:57.36 |
``Erik |
and only in
the right ear :/ |
| 12:57.55 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: I
have a crosstalk between the right jaw muscle and right
ear |
| 12:57.55 |
``Erik |
which
actually sucks, cuz earbuds for phones are geared for the right
ear |
| 12:58.04 |
Maloeran |
Erik, do you
practice any physical activity on a regular basis? That would do
much good too |
| 12:58.17 |
Z80-Boy |
if I tighten
my jaw I hear quite strong tinnitus in right ear - like TV running,
high pitch noise etc. |
| 12:58.27 |
``Erik |
yes, I
frequently do weight lifting. My forte is the 12 oz
curl. |
| 12:58.39 |
Z80-Boy |
lol |
| 12:58.40 |
``Erik |
though I've
been heavy on the 1.5 oz lift |
| 12:58.46 |
Maloeran |
That's... a
start, I think :) |
| 12:59.08 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik:
weight lifting is useless - I did it and I didn't get any boyfriend
from that |
| 12:59.19 |
Z80-Boy |
The problem
is not that they don't want me. The problem is I don't want
them. |
| 12:59.30 |
``Erik |
hum, may be a
cultural skew here... |
| 12:59.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: OMG
my heart would probably explode in a nuclear detonation |
| 12:59.45 |
``Erik |
if I said
"pint curl", would it change the meaning for you? |
| 13:00.10 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: at
least you don't pretend yourself you want to spend the whole life
in a gym to make sure your body would look nice in the
coffin |
| 13:00.30 |
``Erik |
muscle needs
upkeep, or it turns to fat |
| 13:00.47 |
``Erik |
and I've
always had a LOT more respect for gymnast muscles than body builder
muscles |
| 13:01.00 |
Maloeran |
Z80-Boy, I
hope not all your activities are about "getting a
boyfriend" |
| 13:01.01 |
``Erik |
not much to
look at, but the performance through the range is damn
impressive |
| 13:01.05 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: don't
worry the undertaker can cutt your beer belly off with a chainsaw
if the coffin lid timber should break through |
| 13:01.12 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 13:01.33 |
``Erik |
I'm 68 kg, I
can fit in the pine box. |
| 13:01.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: no
- I figured out getting a boyfriend requires sacrificing more fun
that an estimated fun outcome |
| 13:01.56 |
Maloeran |
Being in good
physical shape makes you feel much better, it's a matter of
chemistry, it's not related to your appearance or what other people
think |
| 13:02.10 |
Z80-Boy |
yeah but
feeling better doesn't get me a boyfriend |
| 13:02.36 |
Maloeran |
Nice Erik, I
would have assumed more than 68kg ( no offense meant ). I'm
64kg |
| 13:03.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: at
least you don't have to mount a double skateboard deck on the
trucks |
| 13:03.29 |
``Erik |
last time I
went to the jungle gym, I got on the bench and was able to push 130
lbs several times, so I don't feel too terrible about my
shape |
| 13:03.57 |
Maloeran |
Yes, probably
so |
| 13:04.01 |
``Erik |
but less
dense... more fat, less muscle :D |
| 13:04.10 |
Z80-Boy |
I went to a
gym and then I was cleaning the heating pipes and I thought my hand
falls off and I lose consciousness |
| 13:04.20 |
Maloeran |
I think so
too :). I can do one arm pull-ups for example, too much wall and
rock climbing |
| 13:04.21 |
Z80-Boy |
I mean all
those bicepses and tricepses are absolutely useless |
| 13:04.33 |
Z80-Boy |
When you want
to do real work you feel like a cripple anyway |
| 13:04.43 |
``Erik |
"cleaning the
heating pipes"? um, ... if that's not a double
entendre... |
| 13:04.48 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 13:04.54 |
Z80-Boy |
lol
no |
| 13:05.16 |
``Erik |
<-- cannot
do a 1 arm pullup or lift |
| 13:05.22 |
Z80-Boy |
there was
some sticky oily stuff on it probably the heating
liquid |
| 13:05.25 |
``Erik |
I don't think
so, anyways |
| 13:05.36 |
``Erik |
I mean, last
time I tried, I was only benching like 70lbs |
| 13:05.46 |
Z80-Boy |
If I go to
gym and train bicepses the result is exactly as if I don't train
them |
| 13:05.51 |
Maloeran |
Erik, as long
as you can at least pull up with 2 arms.. :) |
| 13:05.57 |
Z80-Boy |
I can lift
always only the same weight the same amount of times |
| 13:06.08 |
Maloeran |
Z80-Boy,
lifting weight is boring, try wall and rock climbing |
| 13:06.09 |
``Erik |
I'm a lot
stronger now than when I actually exercised, for some strange
reason |
| 13:06.25 |
``Erik |
but I lack
the endurance I used to have, especially cardiovascular |
| 13:06.25 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: as
long as you are able to topple over into a coffin, you are in an
acceptable physical shape ;-) |
| 13:07.14 |
``Erik |
I used to run
a 2 mile track and do some aggressive greenway biking |
| 13:07.15 |
Z80-Boy |
2 mile omg my
heart would probably explode |
| 13:07.15 |
``Erik |
now I mostly
move couches and tables to clean |
| 13:07.15 |
Z80-Boy |
my anaerobic
threshold is after 50 metres |
| 13:07.34 |
Maloeran |
That... could
be improved |
| 13:07.37 |
``Erik |
z80: run it
slow and keep going... |
| 13:07.42 |
``Erik |
walk if
needed |
| 13:07.56 |
``Erik |
but do a
distance, and do it slow... build up speed over time |
| 13:08.11 |
``Erik |
sprinting 50m
and stopping is useless :D |
| 13:08.50 |
Z80-Boy |
If I took a
computer with me I could even maybe convince myself to
continue |
| 13:08.55 |
Z80-Boy |
strap a
laptop on my neck... |
| 13:09.00 |
``Erik |
y'know, I
bought running shows intent on tackling the greenway I freakin'
live on... but I've more or less burnt them out as casual
wear |
| 13:09.02 |
Z80-Boy |
then it could
even be non-boring :) |
| 13:09.23 |
``Erik |
um |
| 13:09.39 |
``Erik |
I soemtimes
think code |
| 13:09.48 |
Z80-Boy |
good
idea |
| 13:09.53 |
``Erik |
if I spend
more time typing than thinking, I'm using the wrong
language |
| 13:10.01 |
Maloeran |
I find it
very hard to think when doing any intense physical
activity |
| 13:10.02 |
``Erik |
or working on
the wrong problems |
| 13:10.15 |
``Erik |
a light jog
isn't too intense... :D |
| 13:10.23 |
``Erik |
or bike
riding |
| 13:11.02 |
``Erik |
when I was on
the trail, I could push up to 30mph and still have free cycles...
it was when I was off road that I needed to focus... |
| 13:11.18 |
``Erik |
going down
hills that actually threw the rfeakin' chain off the
derailer |
| 13:11.33 |
``Erik |
another car
door and stitches? :> |
| 13:11.39 |
Maloeran |
She's
dangerous emotionally and profesionally to me, but it seems even
physically |
| 13:12.00 |
Maloeran |
Eh no, I was
distracted and bumped through a big hole I didn't see |
| 13:12.08 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 13:12.21 |
``Erik |
but not 'stop
the front wheel' big? |
| 13:12.34 |
``Erik |
just 'bust
the boys on the seat' big? |
| 13:12.40 |
Maloeran |
Not quite,
but enough to lose balance when you aren't expecting that kind of
bump |
| 13:12.59 |
Maloeran |
Especially
with just one hand on the handles... |
| 13:13.54 |
Maloeran |
Tsk! Pointing
left to show the way to go :) |
| 13:14.40 |
``Erik |
yeah,
uh |
| 13:14.43 |
``Erik |
words are
good, too. |
| 13:15.13 |
Maloeran |
We went to
try fancy wedding dresses for almost 2 hours that day, although she
finally decided against the idea, and dresses casually at the
wedding as you could see |
| 13:15.22 |
Maloeran |
and
dressed* |
| 13:15.43 |
``Erik |
yeah,
heh |
| 13:15.50 |
``Erik |
nudists have
it figured out. I'm envious. :D |
| 13:17.13 |
Maloeran |
Ah
:) |
| 13:17.31 |
``Erik |
is... that...
a... pig? ... |
| 13:17.42 |
``Erik |
and a
goat? |
| 13:17.43 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 13:17.44 |
Maloeran |
Yup! |
| 13:18.02 |
Maloeran |
We wanted to
do horseback riding during the week-end, but it looks like we
should have made a reservation |
| 13:18.25 |
``Erik |
and a slew of
landscapes |
| 13:18.29 |
Maloeran |
So we went
rock climbing on easy tracks without any gear |
| 13:18.35 |
``Erik |
annnndddd it
ends |
| 13:18.57 |
``Erik |
18 pics, half
landscape... lame :) |
| 13:19.03 |
``Erik |
</haxx0r> |
| 13:19.23 |
Maloeran |
Ah :). She
doesn't like me taking pictures of her |
| 13:19.50 |
``Erik |
and no nudies
of the girl |
| 13:19.53 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 13:22.10 |
``Erik |
opposed to
cmd 2>&1 > file |
| 13:24.08 |
``Erik |
I'm annoyed
at how autoconf subconfigure re-tests a lot of boilerplate shit
instead of using a cache file |
| 13:25.22 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 13:25.40 |
``Erik |
sorry |
| 13:25.54 |
``Erik |
updating the
fbsd port of bugle... it does a subconfig |
| 13:28.13 |
``Erik |
so, uh,
mal... for data manip, you'd take C over compiled lithp?
O.o |
| 13:29.41 |
``Erik |
lithp pairs
with gc give you the ability to do any data structure trivially...
at C speeds with the right compiler... O.o |
| 13:30.23 |
Maloeran |
I would take
C over anything, for flexibility and performance. Other languages
might be more convenient, but my very high comfort with C makes it
very difficult to beat |
| 13:30.37 |
Maloeran |
Perhaps if I
had as much experience with Lisp as with C, I would use it
more |
| 13:30.46 |
``Erik |
ah, but if
you always take the most comfortable option |
| 13:30.50 |
``Erik |
how will you
ever grow? |
| 13:31.43 |
``Erik |
now I'm no
lithp guru, I'm more into scheme in that vein... but when I see a
problem that cl looks.. right... I won't dismiss it otu of
hand |
| 13:32.03 |
Maloeran |
Oh, I explore
other options, but I'm not convinced that Lithp would be more
appropriate than C, even if I was as fluent with both |
| 13:32.04 |
``Erik |
I have to
admit, I saw a problem where I thought ruby was optimal... but I
was wrong. |
| 13:32.13 |
Maloeran |
Eheh |
| 13:32.16 |
``Erik |
at 95%, I was
seriously feeling like scheme would've been far better |
| 13:32.44 |
``Erik |
probably
fixable issues, but they were all minor gotchas |
| 13:33.00 |
``Erik |
and I got ok
results in a fraction of te time that just the book keeping in C
would've taken :) |
| 13:33.52 |
``Erik |
and over the
last couple of days, I've been looking at a program that I'd
originally written in scheme, then re-wrote in C |
| 13:33.59 |
``Erik |
and I'm
wondering if I made a mistake in doing that |
| 13:34.07 |
``Erik |
and I should
quit starting lines iwth and. |
| 13:34.37 |
``Erik |
perhaps if I
were more familiar with something like glib.... |
| 13:35.01 |
``Erik |
I'm tired of
re-writing a linked list module. or tweaking one I carry from
elsewhere |
| 13:35.26 |
Maloeran |
I have always
reused that piece of code for 5 years, never needed
tweaking |
| 13:35.44 |
``Erik |
and I'm
repulsed by the blind cast linked list style |
| 13:36.02 |
``Erik |
I tried to
kill it in BRL-CAD, but lee whined and said it wasn't really an
issue |
| 13:36.03 |
Maloeran |
Tsk! I love
void pointers and memory addressing magic |
| 13:36.14 |
``Erik |
I watched
freebsd go through serious pain to eliminate it from the
kenrel |
| 13:36.46 |
``Erik |
when it's
right, it's ok... but it lends itself to a miscast which can seg or
bus out |
| 13:37.14 |
``Erik |
and I'm so
damn perfect at coding that I know I'm not perfect at coding, pheer
the zen. |
| 13:39.56 |
``Erik |
aight dudes,
ponder... |
| 13:40.10 |
``Erik |
a huge csg
type tree/graph... tons of ors up top |
| 13:40.25 |
``Erik |
finding a
subset that is mostly ands with some ors... |
| 13:40.38 |
``Erik |
I'm thinking
the first cut would be reduction |
| 13:41.02 |
``Erik |
make a copy
of the tree with everything not in te needle eliminated from the
haystack |
| 13:41.21 |
``Erik |
thus reducing
the search space significantly in O(n) |
| 13:41.26 |
``Erik |
thoughts? |
| 13:42.16 |
Maloeran |
What's the
big picture of the problem? |
| 13:42.36 |
``Erik |
um |
| 13:43.01 |
Maloeran |
I don't
really get "finding a subset" part |
| 13:43.51 |
``Erik |
I have 8
zillion standardized minimal primitive parts (bolts, plate, etc)...
I have this THING, made out of parts a and b and (c or d), what
possible shelf component am I looking at, give me a minimal list of
possibilities |
| 13:45.13 |
``Erik |
does that
clear up what problem I'm thinking about? :) |
| 13:46.00 |
``Erik |
I think
linear elimination is the best first whack |
| 13:46.17 |
``Erik |
followed by a
more additive method (mebbe even brute force) |
| 13:46.33 |
``Erik |
I'd love to
know why I'm wrong O.o :D |
| 13:46.55 |
Maloeran |
I would have
to know quite a bit more about how you associate the THING's parts
to the 8 zillion parts, and how the latter are organized... It may
take a while to explain, and you probably have it mostly figured
out |
| 13:47.22 |
``Erik |
ok, the
primitive parts are as minimal as you can get |
| 13:47.36 |
``Erik |
in csg land,
we can admit that they're, say, brlcad primitives |
| 13:47.49 |
``Erik |
cylinders,
spheres, torii, even bots |
| 13:48.16 |
``Erik |
a standard,
say, radio... contains a certain subset of those parts |
| 13:48.58 |
``Erik |
now I have a
random thing made up of low level parts... but I don't know what
the thing is.... is it a radio? a wheel? I don't know... what's the
minimal list for a human to choose from for what it could
be? |
| 13:49.08 |
``Erik |
(ignoring
fully tesselated geometry) |
| 13:49.31 |
``Erik |
(this is
transliterated, of course... I'm not REALLY thinking about BRL-CAD
geometry, it's my day off ;) |
| 13:49.53 |
Maloeran |
I got that
part :) |
| 13:50.25 |
``Erik |
an alternate
approach would be if I was dorking with electronics, and wanted to
make a circuit... I have a list of parts available, what's the set
of possible circuits I could make |
| 13:51.04 |
Maloeran |
Thinking |
| 13:51.23 |
``Erik |
I've thought,
I think the first cut using elimination is ... probably
optimal |
| 13:51.42 |
``Erik |
assuming it
cuts 10,000 to 100 |
| 13:51.59 |
Maloeran |
The question
really is how to organize the 8 zillion parts for search to be
quick |
| 13:52.18 |
``Erik |
yes, I've
thought about sorting to help cut |
| 13:52.32 |
``Erik |
but I still
think cut is the best first notion, generating a
subtree |
| 13:52.32 |
Maloeran |
I would opt
for a graph with many different kind of links between nodes, but
there are many variations possible on the details |
| 13:52.39 |
Maloeran |
A tree,
really? |
| 13:52.45 |
``Erik |
well |
| 13:52.45 |
``Erik |
dag |
| 13:53.04 |
``Erik |
sorry, I'm
used to dags being reduced to trees |
| 14:02.22 |
Maloeran |
Contributions
have to be checked and validated, somehow |
| 14:02.25 |
Maloeran |
Oops. |
| 14:09.37 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
ehehe .. you look rather nervous there |
| 14:09.47 |
``Erik |
uh |
| 14:09.54 |
``Erik |
dude, do ya
blame him? he got married O.o |
| 14:10.28 |
Maloeran |
:)
Ahah |
| 14:10.36 |
Maloeran |
I think I was
a bit nervous, yes |
| 14:22.34 |
brlcad |
especially
since she's staring intently at you, and at least in those pictures
you're intently NOT looking at her :) |
| 14:22.41 |
``Erik |
*snrkt* |
| 14:23.01 |
brlcad |
classic
"pretty girl is making me nervous" look |
| 14:23.06 |
``Erik |
I didn't
really notice that |
| 14:23.07 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 14:23.24 |
``Erik |
but in 0 and
1, yeah |
| 14:23.38 |
Maloeran |
I didn't
notice either! But it makes sense, she asked that we face each
other |
| 14:24.10 |
``Erik |
oh yeah,
um |
| 14:24.22 |
Maloeran |
Ahaha |
| 14:26.10 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 14:39.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876FA5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:42.28 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876FA5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:08.05 |
brlcad |
mailbox ..
almost .. cleaned .. out .. |
| 15:20.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:50.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't blather the error
message if the display cannot be opened. cleanup the logic a bit
too to print a message if a detected type being tested for validity
simply wasn't available during compilation. |
| 15:52.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: merge dm_bestXType
fix in from head, this should quell the failure warnings that the
m2 folks are seeing. |
| 15:56.09 |
TommyLee |
``Erik: is it
something classified? |
| 15:56.29 |
brlcad |
meh, they're
a public influential customer -- for an issue like that it doesn't
matter |
| 16:15.09 |
``Erik |
they work in
classified land, but technically they're not
classified... |
| 16:15.28 |
``Erik |
I'm just a
puss when it comes to that stuff... |
| 16:43.14 |
``Erik |
eh |
| 16:43.17 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:43.18 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:32.17 |
*** join/#brlcad cad58
(n=8e9644a0@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:38.04 |
*** join/#brlcad Mark____
(n=chatzill@stemcell.med.utoronto.ca) |
| 17:39.20 |
Mark____ |
hello, n00b
alert, sorry - anyone there? |
| 17:41.14 |
Mark____ |
anyways, I'm
using BRL-CAD on windows, trying to make a gasket for standard
biotech well plates. It works fine initially, but trying to
facetize or convert to .STL format (the end goal, so I can print
some objects) seems to become exponentially slower with the number
of objects involved. |
| 17:41.20 |
``Erik |
NO |
| 17:42.03 |
``Erik |
the csg ->
nmg conversion is something like O(n^3) bceause it attempts to
preserve solidity |
| 17:44.07 |
Mark____ |
I am working
with 96-well plates, and each well has a core volume, a
countersink, a raised rim and one or two other bits, and it
basically just doesn't work, it crashes before completing the
conversion - is there any way around this problem? |
| 17:45.04 |
Mark____ |
(BTW I may be
missing something obvious, I am very new at this e.g. about 1
week) |
| 17:52.16 |
``Erik |
conversion?
also, in cvs head, "clone" now works on v5 db's... |
| 17:53.08 |
``Erik |
"basically
just doesn't work" isn't terribly descriptive |
| 17:58.28 |
Mark____ |
sorry, I am
also new to the vocabulary around this :) ... I have made the
geometry I want as CSG, but I need to make an STL file so I can
print the object. Unfortunately, as there are 96 * 4 minimal
objects plus the common base block, whenever I try to convert to
.STL format, (or just facetize the thing) I get (OBJ1 u OBJ2) and
((OBJ1 u OBJ2) u OBJ3) etc very quickly, but then it gets
up... |
| 17:58.30 |
Mark____ |
...around
(((((((....)...)...)...)..) u OBJ 50) and gets slower and slower
and slower - I would estimate the tesselation (is that the right
word for this?) would take days if not weeks to
complete |
| 18:01.07 |
Mark____ |
PS I didn't
understand the "clone" reference - is that another way to make the
objects so that it only tesselates them once and then copies
afterwards? |
| 18:24.18 |
``Erik |
it will be
very very very slow, and the (()) stuff is related to tesselation,
it's not necessarily bad |
| 18:25.08 |
``Erik |
clone is if
you have an object and if you want many more (a deep copy, even),
it'll do it... that's something I just fixed in the last week or
two :) |
| 18:33.47 |
Mark____ |
OK, thanks -
so just so I'm clear on this, there is basically no way around this
and I will just need to bite the bullet and burn a lot of CPU
cycles - is that accurate? |
| 18:35.57 |
Mark____ |
also - would
it be a Bad Thing if I were to try to fake it by tesselating one
object and then making a script to duplicate that 96 times (with
modified XY coords) in the STL file? |
| 18:54.34 |
``Erik |
yes, nmg will
take some monsterous cpu. |
| 18:54.55 |
``Erik |
seriously
O(n^3) |
| 18:55.06 |
``Erik |
sorry
:( |
| 19:42.53 |
Mark____ |
OK, thanks.
How do people deal with this issue in industry etc? Is it a general
CAD limitation, or something specific to BRL-CAD / CSG
modelling? |
| 20:19.37 |
Mark____ |
also, what
does the n in O(n^3) refer to? triangles, or CSG primitives? e.g.
is there any way to fool it by segmenting the part and somehow
combining the segments at the end? |
| 20:27.52 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876FA5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.42 |
brlcad |
awesome, the
new canon scanner does a pretty good job .. and fast |
| 20:40.06 |
brlcad |
might
actually have sharable pdf's of the STEP standard before the end of
the week |
| 20:41.07 |
brlcad |
Mark____:
it's a general CAD limitation for the most part |
| 20:41.39 |
brlcad |
the O(n^3)
refers to the amount of effort it takes to continually re-guarantee
that the object that will result from the facetization process is,
in fact, still a solid geometry object |
| 20:42.10 |
brlcad |
and that
limitation is predominantly BRL-CAD specific, a inefficiency detail
of the implementation approach |
| 20:44.24 |
brlcad |
breaking the
tessellation task up into multiple object will save you loads of
time, there are probably a few other "work-around" methods too, but
letting it burn the cpu cycles is probably the easiest approach --
anything else is likely going to be manpower cycles that are more
than the cpu cycles |
| 20:45.07 |
brlcad |
nothing wrong
with tessellating one object and duplicating it -- you can do that
inside brl-cad too, run 'facetize' command, then clone/copy the
object N times |
| 20:47.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-69-92.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:48.46 |
Mark____ |
OK, I will
try that - once it has facetized an object though, does it
re-tesselate it for the STL conversion, or just use the same
triangles it has already made? |
| 20:50.06 |
``Erik |
no, nmg gives
bots, the bots are spewed to stl |
| 20:54.46 |
Mark____ |
also, what is
the best way to select an object from the command line? I am having
trouble with the Build Pattern tool (Error: invalid command name
"pattern_control"), so I have resorted to little scripts, but I
can't figure out how to select and copy from the command
line |
| 20:56.42 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r274 10/trunk/ICPA/: Start the project |
| 20:59.36 |
Mark____ |
OK, I have to
go offline for a bit, thanks very much for your help! -
Mark |
| 21:07.25 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r275 10/trunk/ICPA/ (14 files in 7 dirs):
stubs. |
| 21:25.14 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r276 10/trunk/ICPA/ (10 files in 5 dirs): |
| 21:25.14 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
initial engine stub |
| 21:25.14 |
CIA-4 |
libirc: VC71
build system |
| 22:45.00 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r277 10/trunk/ICPA/ (9 files in 6 dirs): stubs for
the 4 main components. |
| 22:52.09 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r278 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: ++ the
copy of the iterator, not the one we are copying |
| 22:52.37 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/gqa.sh: exit, not return |
| 23:40.32 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r279 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (4 files): make sure all
the erase functions don't assume a returned iterator, and do a
proper iter increment. |
| 23:53.03 |
CIA-4 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r280 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (IRCClient.cpp
IRCServer.cpp): do reverse order deletion instead of iteration for
vectors. |
| 00:19.08 |
starseeker |
``Erik: been
partying? |
| 00:26.30 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
maybe somebody took his seat on the subway, and he had to stand all
the way home... |
| 00:45.35 |
``Erik |
went to a
friends bday party, 4 hours standing around in a park :) was
fun |
| 00:45.46 |
``Erik |
but now I
smell like brlcad's dog :( |
| 00:56.01 |
IriX64 |
you prefer
smelling like a pussy :) |
| 00:57.34 |
yukonbob |
got any pix
of your latest work, IriX64? |
| 00:59.16 |
IriX64 |
mc |
| 00:59.39 |
yukonbob |
?mc |
| 00:59.58 |
IriX64 |
midnight
commander my weapon of choice :) |
| 01:00.14 |
yukonbob |
ah
-- |
| 01:00.54 |
IriX64 |
why am i
getting undefined X references in libfb when compiling
fbserv? |
| 01:01.47 |
yukonbob |
why are you
_always_ compiling brlcad? :) -- I see screen shots from you of it
running... how did that one get compiled? |
| 01:02.25 |
IriX64 |
thats
7.8.4.... trying to stay current |
| 01:05.37 |
yukonbob |
ah
-- |
| 01:06.32 |
yukonbob |
if you want
to add to the challenge (and help brlcad's robustness), try
compiling against tcl/tk 8.4 (latest stable). I have, and so far so
good, but the more, the merrier, they say. |
| 01:06.58 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: I
thought it now required 8.5? |
| 01:06.58 |
IriX64 |
In file
included from if_X.c:53: |
| 01:06.58 |
IriX64 |
../../include/dm-X.h:42: error: expected
specifier-qualifier-list before 'mat_t' |
| 01:07.06 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
not strictly |
| 01:07.11 |
IriX64 |
if you help
me here i will |
| 01:07.28 |
yukonbob |
it's compiled
against 8.5, but is not using 8.5-specific features, as far as
anybody knows. |
| 01:07.42 |
starseeker |
Erm.
|
| 01:07.44 |
IriX64 |
i was told it
was married to 8.5 or greater |
| 01:07.46 |
yukonbob |
I have run it
against 8.4.15, 8.4.16 |
| 01:07.53 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Is
that the case? |
| 01:08.18 |
IriX64 |
in configure
they hardcoded 8.5 |
| 01:08.25 |
yukonbob |
starseeker,
IriX64: I've asked brlcad about this, and run installation is (so
far) proof it's not married to 8.5 ;) |
| 01:08.44 |
IriX64 |
ok
:) |
| 01:08.58 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: there
are some configure.ac modifications necessary, yes. This affects
what ./configure looks for, and the resultant
Makefile(s) |
| 01:09.08 |
starseeker |
Well, I guess
the next question is whether we have exercised the part of brlcad
that might notice the change... |
| 01:09.31 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
yes -- that's why I say the more the merrier ;) |
| 01:09.49 |
yukonbob |
I'm an mged
user and various rt[x] tools... and so far so good. |
| 01:09.58 |
starseeker |
OK. |
| 01:11.47 |
yukonbob |
I also
skipped compilation of bwish (wish, compiled w/ a couple
cad-specific routines) in hopes of creating libtclcad as a loadable
module to a stock wish/tclsh binary -- I've got a start on that,
but that's it. That will give bwish functionality w/o a dedicated
binary (and allow things like rtwizard, etc. to run for
me...) |
| 01:12.03 |
IriX64 |
starseeker
i'm just a hobbiest, wadda I know :) |
| 01:12.40 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
Did you run the make test benchmark as well? I don't now how
comprehensive it is but it's a start |
| 01:13.16 |
IriX64 |
thought
somewhere theres a make test thingy too |
| 01:13.44 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
no, I haven't... |
| 01:14.19 |
starseeker |
That might be
useful ;-) |
| 01:15.28 |
yukonbob |
as far as my
personal use goes, it's better than 8.5, though, since I never got
8.5 running how I wanted; also nice to be able to depend on a
stable version of tcl/tk rather than beta software... |
| 01:17.00 |
starseeker |
Yes, the
gentoo guys tend to agree... |
| 01:17.34 |
starseeker |
Hmm...
http://check.sourceforge.net/
looks kinda interesting. Requires POSIX... |
| 01:21.10 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
Sorry about not pushing harder on the docbook conversion - I'm
hoping things will get better after next week. |
| 01:34.02 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
_no_ problems what-so-ever -- you're not beholden to me, btw,
either ;) -- I think I saw you mentioning emacs sometime earlier --
did you try that out as a docbook environ? Try those scripts I
sent? |
| 02:05.43 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: I
am using emacs +nXML - very nice. |
| 02:06.08 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: I
haven't yet tried incremental pdf generation, so I haven't tried
your scripts - when I do I'll fish them out :-) |
| 02:12.51 |
starseeker |
oops |
| 02:33.42 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 02:34.08 |
yukonbob |
Hello,
whirled. |
| 03:16.19 |
starseeker |
yukonbob
returns :-) |
| 03:16.35 |
poolio |
:o brl-cad
won't compile |
| 03:16.46 |
starseeker |
uh oh - what
platform/version? |
| 03:18.14 |
starseeker |
erk |
| 03:25.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h):
removed wdb_tree_cmd(), added to dg_obj.c as
dgo_tree_cmd() |
| 03:28.16 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
it should work with either -- codewise, it might need minor patches
to work with 8.4 again but they should be really minor |
| 03:28.45 |
brlcad |
most of the
reasons for 8.5 are in the aquatk codebase and build
system |
| 03:52.17 |
poolio |
brlcad: is
this your recent doing? |
| 03:52.31 |
poolio |
dg_obj.c:4917: error: conflicting types
for 'dgo_tree_cmd' |
| 03:52.31 |
poolio |
../../include/raytrace.h:6364: error:
previous declaration of 'dgo_tree_cmd' was here |
| 03:53.07 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 03:53.11 |
brlcad |
just fixed it
in that commit |
| 03:53.23 |
brlcad |
well, not
entirely my doing |
| 03:53.59 |
poolio |
mmk :)
re-updating. |
| 03:53.59 |
brlcad |
i changed the
func, bob changed the decl (to match my change, but got it
wrong) |
| 03:54.34 |
poolio |
hehe, oops
:) |
| 03:54.51 |
brlcad |
that was all
just earlier today |
| 03:55.43 |
poolio |
brlcad: so,
just out of curiousity and cause I'm just remembering, there was a
memory leak bug I found awhile back where this free'ing was
commented out everywhere and we couldn't find a place for it...do
you remember if that got fixed? |
| 03:55.48 |
poolio |
(sorry it's
so vague, it's been awhile) |
| 03:57.13 |
brlcad |
it has
definitely not been changed |
| 03:57.35 |
brlcad |
you did make
a free commit that's still in place and seems to be
fine |
| 03:58.04 |
poolio |
k, I think I
might start coding again. I'm really missing programming, and would
like to try to see the project through...get some
results |
| 03:58.06 |
brlcad |
but the
others that are uncommented are problematic .. other bits of code
need to be refactored for it to free cleanly prior to
exit |
| 03:59.55 |
poolio |
errr if I
could just get it to build on my box |
| 04:00.06 |
poolio |
../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined
reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 04:00.08 |
poolio |
and a few
more |
| 04:00.23 |
poolio |
that's while
trying to link bwish it looks like |
| 04:04.59 |
louipc |
yukonbob: in
canada we use imperial for mechanical stuff |
| 04:05.42 |
brlcad |
poolio: i've
yet to be able to reproduce that error myself, but it's undoubtedly
related to X11 library detection in configure |
| 04:05.59 |
brlcad |
it's missing
the Xi library |
| 04:06.02 |
poolio |
brlcad:
alright, I'll dig around. |
| 04:06.07 |
brlcad |
so missing
-lXi from the LIBS line |
| 04:06.17 |
brlcad |
which you can
add directly to make or to the configure line |
| 04:06.26 |
brlcad |
but the real
question is why is configure failing to find it |
| 04:07.13 |
yukonbob |
louipc:
hrmm... /me knew for construction, but figured for more
'technical' things we'd be using Metric... |
| 04:07.39 |
poolio |
configure:27636: checking for
XGetExtensionVersion in -lXi |
| 04:07.40 |
poolio |
configure:27671: gcc -o conftest
-I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lXi -lX11
-lX11 -lXext >&5 |
| 04:07.43 |
poolio |
/usr/bin/ld:
cannot find -lXi |
| 04:07.51 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
"wrong" |
| 04:07.57 |
brlcad |
or you really
are missing libXi |
| 04:07.58 |
poolio |
hmm |
| 04:08.03 |
poolio |
Yes that's
quite possible. |
| 04:08.33 |
brlcad |
why you'd
suddenly now need it is a bit bizarre, though -- the interface code
certainly hasn't changed that I can think of that were now using Xi
symbols |
| 04:08.43 |
brlcad |
look in the
config.log |
| 04:08.47 |
brlcad |
see why it
failed |
| 04:09.53 |
poolio |
well it's a
different system then the one I was using over the
summer |
| 04:10.02 |
poolio |
The why it
failed in config.log was just the line I pasted earlier |
| 04:12.02 |
brlcad |
oh |
| 04:12.09 |
brlcad |
it's missing
/usr/X11R6/lib |
| 04:12.26 |
brlcad |
do you have
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.* ? |
| 04:12.48 |
poolio |
...nope |
| 04:12.57 |
brlcad |
locate
libXi |
| 04:13.17 |
poolio |
it's
searching ... |
| 04:13.25 |
poolio |
/usr/lib |
| 04:13.31 |
brlcad |
huh |
| 04:13.34 |
poolio |
symlink or
change the search path? |
| 04:13.47 |
brlcad |
that's
bizzare place to have it |
| 04:13.47 |
brlcad |
what OS is
it? |
| 04:13.50 |
poolio |
Debian |
| 04:14.03 |
brlcad |
are they
trying to fade out /usr/X11R6 now? |
| 04:14.26 |
poolio |
Haven't the
slightest idea, but there's no libs in it anymore |
| 04:14.33 |
brlcad |
interesting |
| 04:14.38 |
brlcad |
asinine, but
interesting |
| 04:14.58 |
brlcad |
either way,
/usr/lib is a default search dir iirc, but you can try adding
-L/usr/lib to the LDFLAGS |
| 04:15.06 |
poolio |
Yeah
/usr/X11R6 is 'empty.' Just a symlink from /usr/X11R6/bin ->
/usr/bin |
| 04:34.17 |
*** join/#brlcad zap
(n=zap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:34.22 |
*** part/#brlcad zap
(n=zap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:32.30 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 05:32.33 |
butti |
hello |
| 05:32.37 |
butti |
morgen |
| 05:43.26 |
*** part/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 06:06.21 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 06:06.38 |
butti |
I have a
quastion |
| 06:06.55 |
butti |
is the
@brlcad a bot? |
| 06:08.02 |
Maloeran |
He's the main
BRL-CAD developper, but he might also just be an artificial
intelligence running on the ARL clusters |
| 06:09.41 |
butti |
It would be
fantastic if he is AI |
| 06:10.13 |
butti |
I willl
believe that he is |
| 06:10.20 |
butti |
it |
| 06:18.31 |
butti |
instalation
from .deb failed |
| 06:18.40 |
butti |
try from
source |
| 06:23.09 |
butti |
mainly I am
intrested if this software export dynamic VRML |
| 06:25.54 |
Maloeran |
There's a .g
to vrml exporter though I couldn't say if it's "dynamic" or
not |
| 06:27.15 |
butti |
I will tell
you soon , the instalation takes long time |
| 06:29.43 |
butti |
I get slowly
impression that on linux OS is not many professional designeres
which are using VRML , and not much developers intrested on this
issue |
| 06:30.32 |
butti |
this very
hard for me |
| 06:35.26 |
butti |
I cant
install it :( sudo make whit error 1 |
| 06:44.14 |
butti |
do you know
some another # for brl, I dnt want occupate and make you bored
about my installation troubles |
| 06:54.05 |
butti |
installation
done :) |
| 07:19.34 |
butti |
excuseme last
time more |
| 07:19.40 |
butti |
There is no
visible way to start the app, and no instructions. |
| 07:29.59 |
poolio |
you probably
want mged :) |
| 07:31.02 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
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| 07:37.40 |
*** part/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:47.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
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| 10:43.15 |
Supaplex |
poolio: sleep
for me to |
| 11:02.50 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 11:03.01 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 16:21.27 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
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| 16:42.38 |
*** join/#brlcad butti_
(n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:42.47 |
butti_ |
hello
again |
| 16:47.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54874A20.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:52.58 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:53.37 |
butti |
anybidy home
on linux? |
| 16:54.16 |
*** part/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:55.35 |
louipc |
yep |
| 17:36.38 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:36.46 |
butti |
anybody
home? |
| 17:37.09 |
louipc |
yep |
| 17:37.29 |
butti |
hello |
| 17:37.47 |
louipc |
what's
up |
| 17:38.40 |
butti |
louipc: I
would like to give you some .dxf file to control it, becouse some
reason dosnt let me start brlcad after succesful
installation |
| 17:39.16 |
butti |
and I must
see if I need to fight with brlcad for this file |
| 17:40.16 |
butti |
should look
like this:http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/12715 |
| 17:40.58 |
louipc |
cool |
| 17:41.02 |
butti |
http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=12716 |
| 17:42.00 |
butti |
sorry not
this link |
| 17:42.38 |
butti |
http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=12689 |
| 17:42.50 |
butti |
but it looks
like this above after export |
| 17:43.53 |
louipc |
that's what
it looks like in brlcad? |
| 17:44.01 |
butti |
so if you
dont mind, take my file to test it in brlcad |
| 17:44.20 |
butti |
no , this
looks this way in qcad |
| 17:44.27 |
louipc |
oh |
| 17:44.36 |
louipc |
because qcad
doesn't do 3D I think |
| 17:45.04 |
butti |
you mean
thats why...sure this could be an explaining |
| 17:45.28 |
louipc |
I'd expect
it'd work in brlcad |
| 17:45.29 |
butti |
my system
cant fint mged or rt to start brlcad |
| 17:45.59 |
butti |
also any
corresponding file to find: brlcad |
| 17:46.22 |
butti |
and I m
really angry about that |
| 17:47.12 |
louipc |
brlcad is
installed in /usr/brlcad by default so you need to add the
corresponding directories to PATH, MANPATH, /etc/ld.so.cache
etc |
| 17:47.23 |
louipc |
what distro
are you using? |
| 17:47.24 |
butti |
sorry for my
english, I never learn it, im very sorry |
| 17:47.30 |
butti |
feisty |
| 17:47.34 |
louipc |
no
prob |
| 17:47.52 |
butti |
I have
installed from source |
| 17:47.58 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 17:48.19 |
louipc |
no ubuntu
pkgs eh? |
| 17:48.19 |
butti |
I saw in the
web some guy has also this problem but no solution |
| 17:48.43 |
butti |
no , I
compiled the packedge |
| 17:49.28 |
louipc |
well the
first thing you can do is make sure all your paths are set
correctly |
| 17:49.35 |
butti |
and after few
times ...finally I've got clean installation |
| 17:49.57 |
butti |
how I can do
that? |
| 17:51.22 |
louipc |
export
PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin; |
| 17:51.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
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| 17:51.35 |
louipc |
similarly
with MANPATH |
| 17:51.59 |
louipc |
add the lib
directory to /etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig |
| 17:52.36 |
louipc |
or you can
use LD_LIBRARY_PATH temporarily |
| 17:56.59 |
butti |
/etc/ld.so.conf this is not a
directory |
| 17:57.30 |
butti |
shoud I put
there the path to ldconfig? |
| 17:57.49 |
louipc |
ld.so.conf is
a file which you specify paths to libs |
| 17:58.09 |
louipc |
then you run
ldconfig to update ld.so.cache |
| 17:58.58 |
butti |
in this case
i should put there this path there? /sbin/ldconfig? |
| 17:59.13 |
butti |
do I
understand it well? |
| 17:59.25 |
louipc |
you put the
path in ld.so.conf |
| 17:59.44 |
louipc |
ldconfig will
read ld.so.conf by default |
| 18:01.56 |
butti |
sorry I dont
want to borring you but it would be very helpfull If you
investigate one monet more for me. I have done it now and runed
ldconfig |
| 18:02.14 |
butti |
what
next? |
| 18:02.24 |
louipc |
did you set
the paths? |
| 18:03.01 |
butti |
I put the
path of ldconf to ld.so.conf |
| 18:03.19 |
louipc |
you also need
to set PATH and MANPATH |
| 18:04.07 |
louipc |
you should
probably do that in a script that runs when you start a new
shell |
| 18:04.26 |
louipc |
that varies
by distro (I don't know how ubuntu works) |
| 18:05.01 |
butti |
we will
try...just tell me the code...Im not used to make a lot of stuff
like that |
| 18:06.23 |
louipc |
well you'd
usually have a directory in /etc/ that has a bunch of scripts that
add paths to your shell environment |
| 18:06.57 |
louipc |
you'll have
to find out how that's done in your distro |
| 18:07.11 |
butti |
what kind of
scripts? |
| 18:07.23 |
butti |
sure it is in
/etc |
| 18:07.25 |
louipc |
just to set
variables |
| 18:08.07 |
louipc |
you might
want to look into using a debian pkg as well |
| 18:08.30 |
butti |
of
brl? |
| 18:08.35 |
louipc |
but I'm not
sure what compatibility between debian and ubuntu is
like |
| 18:08.46 |
louipc |
I don't use
either distro |
| 18:08.57 |
butti |
what do you
use? |
| 18:09.09 |
louipc |
butti: ask
someone who is experienced in your distro on how to properly do
these things |
| 18:09.12 |
louipc |
;) |
| 18:09.17 |
louipc |
I use
archlinux |
| 18:09.22 |
butti |
debian =
ubuntu ist almost the same |
| 18:14.16 |
butti |
do you mean
seting path like this f.e :set path=($HOME/bin /usr/sfw/bin
/opt/sfw/bin /usr/local/bin /usr/ccs/bin \? |
| 18:14.26 |
louipc |
yes |
| 18:15.28 |
butti |
the problem
still is that i dont know what paths brlcad needs |
| 18:15.45 |
butti |
or where
theay are |
| 18:15.58 |
louipc |
default
installation path is /usr/brlcad |
| 18:17.11 |
butti |
so this path
I will set in those ld.so* for my home dir, do I understand
that? |
| 18:19.16 |
butti |
set
path=($HOME/bin /usr/brlcad? |
| 18:19.22 |
louipc |
well make
sure it's there |
| 18:19.29 |
butti |
is it
there |
| 18:19.31 |
louipc |
then you have
to point to the bin dir |
| 18:19.36 |
louipc |
and the lib
dir |
| 18:19.37 |
louipc |
etc |
| 18:19.41 |
louipc |
/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 18:19.45 |
butti |
ok |
| 18:21.50 |
butti |
probably all
this: bin include lib man share |
| 18:21.55 |
butti |
? |
| 18:22.06 |
louipc |
no you just
need bin for PATH |
| 18:22.12 |
louipc |
lib for
ld.so.conf |
| 18:22.16 |
louipc |
man for
MANPATH |
| 18:36.41 |
butti |
excuseme,
this is what I changed now: |
| 18:36.43 |
butti |
http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/12767 |
| 18:38.53 |
louipc |
hmm I don't
think you want to do that |
| 18:39.20 |
louipc |
<PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.25 |
louipc |
that is what
you want |
| 18:40.38 |
louipc |
and
LD_LIBRARY_PATH is just for temporarily setting the library
path |
| 18:40.39 |
butti |
you mean the
syntax is wrong |
| 18:40.57 |
louipc |
butti: yes
and you should really find out how these things are done in your
distro |
| 18:41.09 |
louipc |
ask some
ubuntu people that know :D |
| 18:41.24 |
butti |
yes Im tryind
to find out wright now |
| 18:41.36 |
butti |
yes |
| 18:45.18 |
poolio |
Is Tcl
require 8.5a6 hardcoded? |
| 18:47.48 |
louipc |
yeah I heard
that there are changes in Tcl that mean it isn't backward
compatible |
| 18:49.07 |
poolio |
``Erik:
bwahaha. I like your commit comment on a shitty line of code I had:
"silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables
mid-scope" |
| 19:13.27 |
butti |
astro76: /msg
louipc ps take atantion for me again |
| 19:13.43 |
butti |
<PROTECTED> |
| 19:13.49 |
butti |
shit |
| 19:20.13 |
butti |
louipc: could
I talk to you again? |
| 19:26.04 |
*** join/#brlcad clock_
(i=clock@77-56-75-54.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:27.24 |
butti |
clock_:
hello |
| 19:32.44 |
clock_ |
hi |
| 19:33.16 |
butti |
clock I me
here to get some help, do you have a time for me? |
| 19:57.38 |
brlcad |
ciao
butti |
| 19:59.30 |
brlcad |
butti: what's
your question(s)? |
| 20:00.48 |
butti |
brlcad: I
have incredable compllications with makin brlcad runing on
feisty...and I dont know if my installation was correct becouse I
didnt follow instuction very exactly....it something about setin
PATHS |
| 20:00.49 |
brlcad |
poolio: tcl
8.5+ is listed in configure as a minimum as code modifications were
needed to update from 8.4 to 8.5 -- if someone can confirm that it
works with 8.4 without modification by simply adding the two extra
lines to configure.ac, then it can be relaxed |
| 20:01.18 |
butti |
i made only
./configure make make install make benchmark and make clean
...thats all |
| 20:01.20 |
brlcad |
you should
know how to set/change your PATH regardless of BRL-CAD .. that's
pretty fundamental to using *nix :) |
| 20:01.31 |
brlcad |
did make
&& make install work? |
| 20:01.37 |
butti |
and thats
about that |
| 20:01.45 |
brlcad |
i.e. did they
complete successfully? |
| 20:01.48 |
butti |
yes.no errors
at all |
| 20:01.59 |
brlcad |
then run
"/usr/brlcad/bin/rt" |
| 20:02.05 |
brlcad |
does it give
you an error or show a version |
| 20:02.40 |
poolio |
brlcad: do I
really need 8.5a6? /usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.5/init.tcl: version
conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5b1, need exactly
8.5a6 |
| 20:03.02 |
butti |
brlcad: may I
put the output here? |
| 20:03.23 |
butti |
Compile-time
debug symbols are available |
| 20:03.23 |
butti |
Running on
fawn |
| 20:03.23 |
butti |
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: MGED database not
specified |
| 20:03.23 |
butti |
Usage: rt
[options] model.g objects... |
| 20:03.23 |
butti |
Options: -s #
Square grid size in pixels (default 512) -w # -n #
Grid size width and height in pixels -V # View (pixel)
aspect ratio (width/height) -a # Azimuth in deg -e #
Elevation in deg -M Read matrix+cmds on stdin -N #
NMG debug flags -o model.pix Output file, .pix format
(default=fb) -x # librt debug flags |
| 20:03.39 |
butti |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.41 |
brlcad |
poolio: ah,
that's something stupid in the tcl init funcs -- tcl's init script
version check is braindead |
| 20:04.17 |
brlcad |
butti: don't
need to paste, just answer -- I know what the output is supposed to
look like ;) |
| 20:04.38 |
brlcad |
okay, so it's
installed and at least rt runs |
| 20:04.39 |
butti |
brlcad: sure
, how I could forget it? :) |
| 20:05.21 |
butti |
brlcad: I
wouldnt make you nervous if i didnt needs for my work |
| 20:05.37 |
brlcad |
you can and
should set your PATH to include /usr/brlcad/bin but it's not
necessary -- just prefix the commands with
"/usr/brlcad/bin/" |
| 20:06.06 |
brlcad |
i happen to
need it for my work too, so sounds good ;) |
| 20:06.31 |
butti |
brlcad: this
is what i would like to do for me, I give you syntax for my
system |
| 20:06.58 |
butti |
becouse Im
not the persone which is hucking in the system :) |
| 20:07.03 |
brlcad |
so there are
lots of commands in brl-cad, depends what you're trying to do .. I
see in the log that you have a dxf .. did you already run dxf-g
? |
| 20:07.38 |
butti |
no i
didnt |
| 20:07.56 |
butti |
this command
isnt known |
| 20:08.09 |
brlcad |
because you
never set your PATH |
| 20:08.26 |
butti |
PATH="${PATH}:/some/path:/adifferent/path" |
| 20:08.26 |
brlcad |
i'm not going
to teach you how to set your PATH today, just run
/usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g |
| 20:08.46 |
butti |
I never set
my Path, i need to do that onece and I get it |
| 20:08.57 |
brlcad |
forget the
path for now |
| 20:09.06 |
brlcad |
just run
/usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g |
| 20:09.11 |
poolio |
brlcad: I
changed the require line in init.tcl but It's stail failing with a
version conflict... |
| 20:09.46 |
brlcad |
poolio: it's
in a couple places iirc |
| 20:09.52 |
brlcad |
one is
compiled into the library |
| 20:10.02 |
poolio |
arghh. |
| 20:10.48 |
brlcad |
so if you
have a 8.4 init.tcl trying to load a 8.5 libtcl, it'll choke; if
you have a 8.5 init.tcl set to allow 8.4+, it'll still
choke |
| 20:10.56 |
brlcad |
it can be
made to work |
| 20:11.04 |
brlcad |
involves
chicken heads, and beads |
| 20:11.09 |
butti |
brlcad:
Saving stack trace to unknown-17666-bomb.log |
| 20:11.37 |
poolio |
brlcad:
they're both 8.5, just different ones |
| 20:11.38 |
brlcad |
butti: that's
fine |
| 20:11.49 |
brlcad |
butti: I
presume it showed you usage |
| 20:11.54 |
butti |
brlcad:
should i read the log? |
| 20:12.05 |
brlcad |
no |
| 20:12.34 |
butti |
I need
probably some gui if its prossible :) |
| 20:12.50 |
poolio |
butti:
probably mged... |
| 20:13.54 |
brlcad |
butti: focus
.. first task is running dxf-g to convert to brl-cad
format |
| 20:14.32 |
butti |
brlcad:
ok |
| 20:15.12 |
brlcad |
follow the
usage and see if you can get the .g file |
| 20:15.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: don't bomb on usage. bu_bomb
is now only abnormal exit conditions. |
| 20:15.46 |
brlcad |
gah, now that
I've stopped playing that game I was playing for 6 hours.. i
suddenly realize just how freaking hungry I apparently
am |
| 20:16.17 |
butti |
.g file it is
a standart format for brlcad? |
| 20:23.42 |
butti |
there is any
*.g file |
| 20:24.24 |
brlcad |
there are
several .g examples installed |
| 20:24.43 |
brlcad |
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/ |
| 20:25.10 |
brlcad |
.g == BRL-CAD
"g"oemetry file format |
| 20:25.20 |
brlcad |
heh,
'g'eometry |
| 20:25.29 |
butti |
:) |
| 20:25.32 |
butti |
ok I
see |
| 20:26.22 |
brlcad |
did you run
dxf-g yet? |
| 20:26.51 |
brlcad |
and what is
your goal? what are you trying to do? |
| 20:27.11 |
brlcad |
if you intend
to be modelling, forget dxf-g -- you should be going through the
tutorials that are available on the website first |
| 20:27.15 |
butti |
but I dontt
see my file |
| 20:27.22 |
brlcad |
what
file? |
| 20:27.41 |
brlcad |
i can't see
it for you |
| 20:27.50 |
butti |
ok , I think
I made something not necessery |
| 20:28.07 |
brlcad |
you're not
giving me enough information to help you |
| 20:28.07 |
butti |
I made dxf on
my dxf file |
| 20:28.16 |
butti |
dxf-g |
| 20:28.32 |
butti |
and then I
was looking for myfile.g |
| 20:28.49 |
brlcad |
you mean, you
made a .g on your .dxf file? |
| 20:28.58 |
butti |
yes |
| 20:29.45 |
butti |
like
/usr/brlcad/*/dxf-g ond /my/file.. |
| 20:30.15 |
brlcad |
show me your
exact line |
| 20:30.37 |
butti |
/usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g
/home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/TEST1.dxf |
| 20:30.49 |
brlcad |
is that
all? |
| 20:30.55 |
butti |
yes |
| 20:31.01 |
brlcad |
then you
didn't read the usage :) |
| 20:31.07 |
brlcad |
dxf-g [-c]
[-d] [-v] [-t tolerance] [-s scale_factor] input_dxf_file
output_file.g |
| 20:31.11 |
butti |
i didnt mea
culpa |
| 20:31.16 |
brlcad |
input .. AND
.. output |
| 20:31.29 |
butti |
ok, so
stupid |
| 20:32.22 |
butti |
ok something
happend |
| 20:33.08 |
butti |
I have the
file |
| 20:36.12 |
butti |
Ive got
it! |
| 20:36.17 |
butti |
thank you so
much |
| 20:39.02 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-023-060.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:40.30 |
butti |
brlcad: so
still some trouble to see anything on screen but I think I must
read now the tuts, or? |
| 20:41.32 |
butti |
Im wondering
that this software is 20 years old |
| 20:41.34 |
brlcad |
that
certainly shouldn't hurt |
| 20:41.59 |
brlcad |
it's a
powerful package, but not easy to learn |
| 20:42.51 |
brlcad |
there isn't
decent a shaded mode in mged, so you only get wireframe -- and for
a model like a dxf that is going to import as a bunch of polygons,
that's going to be a bit painful |
| 20:43.07 |
brlcad |
you'll
need/want to raytrace it to see what it really looks
like |
| 20:43.16 |
butti |
brlcad: it
will be not hard...but takes time which I dont have realy...in 10
dayes <i must give my project away |
| 20:43.23 |
brlcad |
run 'rt' in
mged to see what it looks like |
| 20:43.44 |
butti |
I nee only
wireframes and measure that |
| 20:44.15 |
butti |
so that the
people working on autocad can read it and counstuct the
project |
| 20:44.20 |
brlcad |
mged only
shows wireframe -- you have to ray-trace it to see
shaded |
| 20:44.31 |
butti |
I dont need
raytrace |
| 20:44.40 |
butti |
just
wires |
| 20:44.55 |
brlcad |
then
rtedge |
| 20:45.01 |
butti |
ok |
| 20:45.12 |
brlcad |
wireframe in
mged is not the same as wire/sketch/diagram in autocad |
| 20:45.17 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-013-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:45.24 |
butti |
inredable
hacklike app |
| 20:46.22 |
brlcad |
mged's
interface is painful |
| 20:46.32 |
brlcad |
it's
eventually going away |
| 20:46.55 |
butti |
I get some
errors |
| 20:46.55 |
brlcad |
but not for a
long time, so long as the experts still need/use it and until
there's a fully operational alternative |
| 20:47.09 |
brlcad |
"you're not
giving me enough information to help you" |
| 20:47.14 |
butti |
brlcad: you
are incradable |
| 20:47.25 |
brlcad |
hm? |
| 20:48.19 |
Maloeran |
Parse error
on incradable |
| 20:48.44 |
butti |
sudo
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt
/home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g |
| 20:48.56 |
brlcad |
you have to
specify the object |
| 20:49.00 |
butti |
Compile-time
debug symbols are available |
| 20:49.00 |
butti |
Running on
fawn |
| 20:49.00 |
butti |
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: no objects specified
-- raytrace aborted |
| 20:49.08 |
brlcad |
no objects
specified |
| 20:49.31 |
brlcad |
.g files are
multigeometry, can contain many top-level models |
| 20:49.54 |
brlcad |
run this:
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g tops |
| 20:50.01 |
brlcad |
what does it
report? |
| 20:50.04 |
butti |
you mean I
shloud put each object seperatly? |
| 20:50.24 |
brlcad |
no |
| 20:50.41 |
brlcad |
i mean a .g
file isn't like a blender file that has "one" model .. it can have
many |
| 20:50.46 |
butti |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.01 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 20:51.09 |
brlcad |
you ran
"/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g tops" and it
said command not found?? |
| 20:52.17 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01__
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-071-085.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:52.38 |
butti |
BRL-CAD
Release 7.10.2 Geometry Editor (MGED) Thu Aug 16 16:30:38 EDT
2007, Compilation 1 morrison@sushi.local:/usr/brlcad |
| 20:52.41 |
butti |
attach
(nu|X|ogl)[nu]? |
| 20:52.58 |
butti |
I made
mistake sorry |
| 20:53.33 |
butti |
brlcad: do
hack on this prog 20 years? |
| 20:53.45 |
butti |
you |
| 20:53.47 |
brlcad |
you've not
even seen 1% of it |
| 20:54.08 |
brlcad |
no, I've only
been involved for a little less than half that time |
| 20:54.11 |
butti |
jessus, i m
shaking from fear |
| 20:54.48 |
butti |
brlcad: but
Im learning fast, just not long time on linux |
| 20:55.29 |
butti |
I have learnd
blender very quick *proud* |
| 20:55.49 |
brlcad |
that's quite
an acheivement :) |
| 20:56.15 |
brlcad |
brl-cad's at
least as hard to learn, if not harder ;) |
| 20:56.27 |
poolio |
brlcad:
sushi? |
| 20:56.28 |
brlcad |
but once you
learn it, the modelers are actually quite proficient |
| 20:56.34 |
brlcad |
poolio: yes
please? |
| 20:56.54 |
brlcad |
you trying to
make me hungry? :) |
| 20:57.03 |
butti |
brlcad: im
sure about that but I need that, no way to running away from
that |
| 20:57.21 |
brlcad |
butti: so you
ran 'tops'? |
| 20:57.32 |
brlcad |
it should
have given you an object name |
| 20:57.36 |
butti |
are you guyes
from GMT1 zone? |
| 20:57.57 |
butti |
brlcad: yes I
do |
| 20:58.28 |
brlcad |
type this in
mged: rt -F/dev/Xl object_name |
| 20:58.45 |
brlcad |
(while
looking at wireframe) |
| 20:59.47 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-014-209.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:00.04 |
brlcad |
butti:
GMT-4/5 |
| 21:00.17 |
butti |
uh |
| 21:00.23 |
brlcad |
poolio: what
was the sushi? :) |
| 21:00.24 |
butti |
so
feilure |
| 21:00.31 |
butti |
brlcad:
/usr/brlcad/bin/rt -M -F/dev/Xl |
| 21:00.31 |
butti |
opendb
vm21.dxf; |
| 21:00.31 |
butti |
tree
/home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g; |
| 21:00.31 |
butti |
rt:
rt_dirbuild(vm21.dxf) failure |
| 21:00.33 |
butti |
Raytrace
complete. |
| 21:00.36 |
poolio |
brlcad: one
of your box's hostnames? |
| 21:00.42 |
brlcad |
oooh |
| 21:00.55 |
brlcad |
heh,
yeah |
| 21:01.05 |
butti |
hi guyes you
should go est something |
| 21:01.09 |
poolio |
brlcad:
speaking of which... this sushi is quite tasty. |
| 21:01.12 |
butti |
eat |
| 21:01.50 |
brlcad |
butti:
_inside_ mged |
| 21:01.59 |
brlcad |
"rt -F/dev/Xl
object_name" |
| 21:02.13 |
brlcad |
outside of
mged, it's a little different |
| 21:02.26 |
brlcad |
you don't
need the path inside mged |
| 21:03.02 |
butti |
brlcad: I
think I did it |
| 21:03.08 |
butti |
inside of
mged |
| 21:03.28 |
butti |
brlcad:
mged> /rt -F/dev/Xl vm21.dxf |
| 21:03.46 |
butti |
should i put
all path? |
| 21:03.47 |
brlcad |
vm21.dxf is
not an object name |
| 21:03.54 |
brlcad |
that's a file
name |
| 21:04.09 |
brlcad |
and there
shouldn't be a / in front of the rt |
| 21:04.35 |
brlcad |
i really did
mean exactly "rt -F/dev/Xl object_name" .. just that you replace
object_name with the name of a top-level object |
| 21:04.45 |
brlcad |
i.e. run
"tops" to see your top-level objects |
| 21:05.12 |
butti |
ok |
| 21:05.29 |
brlcad |
poolio: then
go saleing on a boat afterwards with your x61t to get more
sushi? |
| 21:06.39 |
poolio |
eh. I'm
waiting it out til oct. 26th. Problem is the x61t sale is over
then...Also my damn current laptop works fine when it turns
on...the issue is it doesnt always turn on |
| 21:07.19 |
brlcad |
fun |
| 21:11.01 |
butti |
brlcad: I ve
got some command window open |
| 21:12.36 |
butti |
brlcad: and
the main window has got a star-line wires |
| 21:16.44 |
brlcad |
which is why
I'm trying really hard to get you to run "rt -F/dev/Xl
object_name" |
| 21:17.05 |
brlcad |
tell me what
tops says |
| 21:19.18 |
butti |
nothing |
| 21:19.32 |
butti |
I put it in
The mged console |
| 21:19.42 |
butti |
nothing
happend |
| 21:19.43 |
brlcad |
did you open
vm21.g in mged yet? |
| 21:19.55 |
butti |
yes |
| 21:19.58 |
butti |
I
did |
| 21:20.13 |
butti |
there was
nothing to see just little point |
| 21:20.31 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
show you anything by default....because it's
multi-geometry |
| 21:20.49 |
butti |
I
accept |
| 21:21.02 |
starseeker |
? |
| 21:21.08 |
brlcad |
can you post
the .g somewhere? |
| 21:21.08 |
butti |
:) |
| 21:21.43 |
butti |
I have no ftp
entry anwhere |
| 21:21.53 |
brlcad |
ftp.brlcad.org |
| 21:21.57 |
butti |
I will try
throug some service, 1 sec |
| 21:22.54 |
brlcad |
incoming
dir |
| 21:23.52 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:28.39 |
butti |
cant connect
Iwill do something else |
| 21:59.30 |
butti |
did you eat
something guyes? |
| 21:59.59 |
louipc |
some
hotdogs |
| 22:00.10 |
butti |
finally i
upload it to your ftp brlcad |
| 22:01.07 |
butti |
louipc: whit
some hackmeet and onion? |
| 22:01.41 |
louipc |
with some
ketchup |
| 22:01.45 |
louipc |
and
bread |
| 22:03.15 |
butti |
my cats tell
me, jumping on my keyboard: stop to watch this console |
| 22:05.23 |
butti |
brlcad: check
incoming for .dxf after you eat some hotdog. |
| 22:06.34 |
louipc |
lol |
| 22:11.50 |
butti |
Im sitting
already 18 h for the display |
| 22:12.03 |
louipc |
hm? |
| 22:12.26 |
butti |
um |
| 22:12.31 |
butti |
uhm |
| 22:14.17 |
butti |
louipc: are
you developer of this comic app? or just a fanatic? |
| 22:14.28 |
louipc |
fanatic |
| 22:14.55 |
louipc |
I'm thinking
about doing some development though |
| 22:15.17 |
butti |
which
language it is writen? |
| 22:15.48 |
louipc |
C, Tcl, some
C++ |
| 22:16.09 |
butti |
do you need
brl for your work? |
| 22:17.31 |
``Erik |
comic
app? |
| 22:18.03 |
louipc |
butti: I need
something like brlcad, but brlcad isn't quite up to spec for my
work (yet?) |
| 22:19.08 |
butti |
I see, you
are lost fanatic :) |
| 22:20.12 |
butti |
do you work
in some design or architecture stuff? or maschines
constucting? |
| 22:20.18 |
louipc |
indeed it's
quit comical |
| 22:20.20 |
louipc |
machines |
| 22:22.56 |
butti |
do you know
any women working with brl? |
| 22:24.34 |
louipc |
I've heard
complaints about a 'wendy' haha maybe she does |
| 22:27.10 |
``Erik |
why would it
matter? |
| 22:27.17 |
``Erik |
and, um, BRL
doesn't exist anymore |
| 22:27.29 |
``Erik |
it was
twisted into ARL |
| 22:27.31 |
``Erik |
a long time
ago |
| 22:27.35 |
poolio |
alloo
``Erik |
| 22:27.42 |
butti |
:) ..there is
no other way to make 3d drawings for free..Im very thankfull to
find this comic app.. but I think the next project I will first
draw in qcad and then export to blender. The problem with this
order is, that you cant change anything if you get some idea to put
a new chair into |
| 22:27.44 |
``Erik |
'92 |
| 22:27.49 |
``Erik |
oi,
hoolio |
| 22:28.05 |
louipc |
shouldn't it
be called arlcad now then? |
| 22:28.20 |
``Erik |
no, shut
up |
| 22:28.34 |
``Erik |
if it were
ARL-CAD, we'd have to make it suck goat balls |
| 22:28.42 |
``Erik |
we still want
it to be useful and worth something |
| 22:28.43 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 22:28.44 |
``Erik |
*duck* |
| 22:28.57 |
louipc |
ah |
| 22:29.19 |
poolio |
uh
oh. |
| 22:29.27 |
louipc |
wendy's
coming |
| 22:30.08 |
poolio |
``Erik: that
would mean brlcad wouldn't be brlcad. he'd be arlcad. haha. we have
the power to change his name :) |
| 22:30.55 |
louipc |
yeah that
might be a source of confusion |
| 22:31.02 |
``Erik |
heh, I think
he'd rather just keep 'tofu' :) |
| 22:31.11 |
butti |
poolio: you
guyes are just intrested on hacking this app insted to
draw |
| 22:31.24 |
louipc |
I'm
interested in drawing |
| 22:33.02 |
poolio |
butti: This
chat is primarily used by those who develop the software. Most of
us program more than we model, but most of the devs have atleast
some experience modelling. |
| 22:34.19 |
butti |
poolio: this
is maybe not the best situation |
| 22:34.53 |
louipc |
I'd
agree |
| 22:35.12 |
brlcad |
yeah, I'd
revert back to one of my old names before going to
arlcad |
| 22:35.23 |
butti |
i wouldn walk
on your nervs, guyes, if i would find some another channel of
brl-USERS |
| 22:35.25 |
brlcad |
heck, arrcad
would be better |
| 22:35.27 |
louipc |
so brlcad
needs more users |
| 22:35.31 |
brlcad |
speak-like-a-pirate-cad |
| 22:36.44 |
``Erik |
arrrrrrb8 |
| 22:37.02 |
starseeker |
we'd have to
model a sailing ship to be the new cad logo |
| 22:37.41 |
``Erik |
hum, mal has
a model of an old golden age frigate or something, he could hit the
button and push out a png ;) |
| 22:37.47 |
butti |
notabe Im
very suprised that amarican army using basicly linux for
drawing |
| 22:38.02 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
really? That's cool! |
| 22:38.03 |
butti |
this is a
country of windows |
| 22:38.11 |
``Erik |
but the
research lab has a slew of linux machines |
| 22:38.12 |
butti |
hehe |
| 22:38.12 |
louipc |
I think
Malorean has a model of a frigate |
| 22:38.12 |
starseeker |
(the sailing
ship, not lack of Linux) |
| 22:38.30 |
``Erik |
brlcad and I
both have 8 core mac pro's with gobs of memory and
monitors |
| 22:38.39 |
louipc |
mac? |
| 22:38.40 |
``Erik |
I log into a
freebsd box for most of my compiling and testing |
| 22:38.53 |
``Erik |
and I'm on a
17" powerbook right now *cough* O:-) |
| 22:39.02 |
poolio |
errrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 22:39.05 |
butti |
uh |
| 22:39.10 |
louipc |
butti: what
country is that? |
| 22:39.38 |
butti |
louipc: make
whois |
| 22:39.41 |
``Erik |
heh, the
hostname doesn't give it away? :D |
| 22:39.44 |
louipc |
I used to say
that I'd get a mac but I think now I'd rather shoot myself in the
foot |
| 22:39.55 |
``Erik |
louipc:
why? |
| 22:40.08 |
``Erik |
a few tweaks,
and it's reasonably similar to fbsd... |
| 22:40.20 |
brlcad |
butti: this
is what I was trying to get you to do: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/butti.png |
| 22:40.20 |
louipc |
it's a
frankenstein OS |
| 22:40.20 |
butti |
louipc:
DE |
| 22:40.28 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 22:40.30 |
louipc |
``Erik: I'd
just use fbsd :P |
| 22:41.01 |
starseeker |
Macs have
graphics to die for, so long as someone else is footing the
bill... |
| 22:41.07 |
butti |
brlcad:
shaded looks well but the wires, which i need are not
usable |
| 22:41.07 |
``Erik |
and linux is
a paper mache monster created from a slew of 12yo's shooting
spitwads, and windows is just... plain... evil... wrong...
*shudder* |
| 22:41.16 |
``Erik |
my 12" ibook
was $700 |
| 22:41.50 |
``Erik |
mac mini is
pretty reasonable, just don't buy the monitor and memory from apple
:) |
| 22:41.51 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Heh.
Well, for paper mache it does pretty well. |
| 22:42.12 |
louipc |
``Erik: gimme
a break linux is way better than that |
| 22:42.18 |
butti |
brlcad: i
will do that now |
| 22:42.42 |
poolio |
brlcad: you
got the $100 iPhone credit? |
| 22:42.43 |
``Erik |
heh, not
really... I kinda gave up on linux after too much kernel work
around '98 or '99... gave fbsd a try and was floored by the
awesomeness |
| 22:42.59 |
brlcad |
butti: yes,
it shows all the polygon edges, that's what I was saying that
mged's wireframe is a bit different |
| 22:43.02 |
louipc |
oh linux
sucked until after 2002 |
| 22:43.05 |
louipc |
or
so |
| 22:43.10 |
brlcad |
rtedge
(picture in the bottom right) is closer |
| 22:43.11 |
starseeker |
``Erik: $700
- cool. My complaint with Apple is not so much the machine price,
but that Every Single App for it (that isn't a unix port) costs
money. |
| 22:43.17 |
brlcad |
poolio:
yeah |
| 22:43.18 |
louipc |
so I
understand that I guess |
| 22:43.39 |
louipc |
yeah linux
finally stuck on me when I started using gentoo |
| 22:43.59 |
louipc |
then I was
sick of compiling every single app on my slow computer and I'm on
archlinux now |
| 22:44.11 |
starseeker |
The beauty of
Gentoo is that, in theory, you could swap out the kernel and keep
right on truckin |
| 22:44.22 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
huh? .. not all of them |
| 22:44.29 |
brlcad |
there are
tons that are free, some ports, some not |
| 22:44.39 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Really? |
| 22:44.41 |
brlcad |
most of the
really good ones actually aren't ports, but a few are |
| 22:44.46 |
``Erik |
loui: I still
have debian boxes, redhat boxes, have dorked with ubuntu and gentoo
a little... the core suckage is still there :( eSPECIALLY on redhat
breeds |
| 22:44.52 |
brlcad |
yeah, search
through http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/
and versiontracker.com for starters |
| 22:45.04 |
brlcad |
(though the
latter also does free/shareware) |
| 22:45.08 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Maybe there are more nowadays - I guess it's been a while since I
did a MacOS freeware hunt |
| 22:45.35 |
``Erik |
starseeker:
the only app I've felt compelled to drop $'s on for my mac is
'world of dorkcraft'... otherwise, it's a shiny unix machine for me
: |
| 22:46.03 |
brlcad |
it's just
about any app you have on linux, every app on bsd, and maybe a
third of the apps on windows (.. and of course the handful of
mac-only) |
| 22:46.04 |
starseeker |
sweeet. |
| 22:46.14 |
butti |
brlcad: i
still dont get the picture...but I see that i cant work with that
how I nee |
| 22:46.16 |
louipc |
yeah I've
never been enthused with debian or redhat |
| 22:46.32 |
louipc |
but if you
dare - try archlinux it's quite different |
| 22:46.37 |
starseeker |
That's really
cool. I guess my last major run-in with Macs was just before OSX
became the big thing |
| 22:46.45 |
``Erik |
a lot of my
bigger problems are with the kernel proper. and redhat 'fixes'
their kernel images to be far more fucked up |
| 22:46.55 |
louipc |
lol |
| 22:46.57 |
starseeker |
Nice to see
it getting more friendly :) :) |
| 22:47.09 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Thanks for the heads up! |
| 22:47.14 |
brlcad |
butti: for
what it's worth -- that model you have is exceptionally trivial --
it translates to CSG pretty directly and would not have all the
lines like that if it were re-modeled in brl-cad |
| 22:47.34 |
brlcad |
butti: it has
all of the lines because it's a dxf conversion and not modeled
using primitives |
| 22:48.14 |
starseeker |
doggone it,
now the next computer replacement cycle I'm going to have to look
at a Mac... |
| 22:48.18 |
butti |
brlcad: but
it create wires which are not exist in my model |
| 22:48.33 |
brlcad |
they do
exist |
| 22:48.36 |
butti |
thats a
point |
| 22:48.54 |
brlcad |
those are the
edges to the polygons that make up the object |
| 22:49.08 |
louipc |
butti: you
modeled in blender yeah? |
| 22:49.16 |
brlcad |
the only
difference is that brl-cad shows them to you whereas something like
blender will hide the internal edges |
| 22:49.20 |
butti |
louipc:
yes |
| 22:49.31 |
louipc |
yeah even a
flat square is made up of two triangles |
| 22:49.33 |
brlcad |
the edges are
still there, even in blender |
| 22:49.46 |
``Erik |
will turning
on 'smoothing' in the bot "fix" it? |
| 22:49.48 |
louipc |
there's a
function in blender which you can manipulate those |
| 22:49.53 |
brlcad |
nah |
| 22:49.55 |
butti |
brlcad: i can
understand created wires on some round objects, but not on simpe
primes |
| 22:50.10 |
brlcad |
it needs to
be implicit prims if you want the mged wire to be
minimal |
| 22:51.05 |
brlcad |
butti: how
about the hidden-line rendering in the bottom right corner of that
screenshot -- is that closer to what you are looking
for? |
| 22:51.06 |
butti |
so you mean
some vertics are not closed? |
| 22:51.09 |
``Erik |
<-- only
half paying attention... is it the wireframe display (*_plot) being
discussed? |
| 22:51.30 |
butti |
brlcad: yes
it is |
| 22:52.15 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
he's (understandly) not happy with the mged wireframe ..
particularly that it doesn't hide the internel mesh edges (and
probably would next want hidden-edge detection to hide those as
well) |
| 22:52.40 |
``Erik |
heh, it's
that or seeing the cutters, too... heh |
| 22:52.42 |
brlcad |
butti: that's
"rtedge" - you can run rtedge on any model as needed if
visualization is your goal |
| 22:53.02 |
brlcad |
yeah, he's
not even gotten to doing an csg yet |
| 22:53.19 |
brlcad |
butti: here's
what it would look like with primitives: http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 22:53.22 |
butti |
brlcad: it is
possible to work with is rightside image this way: change of high
of some objects and measure the outside wires? |
| 22:53.42 |
brlcad |
and a more
complex rtedge: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 22:54.30 |
brlcad |
butti: that
would be dimensioning .. and is pretty much a drafting requirement;
brl-cad isn't strongly suited to drafting at the moment, but it's
on the todo list |
| 22:54.32 |
butti |
brlcad: the
first one is that what i would like to reach |
| 22:55.02 |
butti |
jessus, volks
i will loos my work if if if |
| 22:55.26 |
brlcad |
butti: the
first one is just modeling something simple using brl-cad
directly |
| 22:55.31 |
brlcad |
not a dxf
conversion |
| 22:55.50 |
butti |
I
understand |
| 22:56.24 |
starseeker |
figures, I
dove into Linux without looking back just when it started getting
good... |
| 22:56.25 |
brlcad |
maybe give
the tutorials a try on the main website: http://brlcad.org .. read the Documentation
links 1, 2, and 3 |
| 22:56.26 |
butti |
brlcad: how
is it with import .obj into brl? |
| 22:56.33 |
brlcad |
same problem,
that's a mesh format |
| 22:56.39 |
brlcad |
brl-cad
doesn't like meshes |
| 22:56.42 |
louipc |
oh I guess I
would get a mac if I wanted to play games... or use some of that
proprietary software that's out there |
| 22:57.24 |
butti |
ok |
| 22:57.38 |
starseeker |
louipc: For
some of what I do (Axiom/Lisp) Linux is still the primary platform,
but for things like presentations, documents, etc it's nice to have
everything "just work" to save time |
| 22:57.47 |
brlcad |
you can view
meshes (as you've seen), but they're a pain in the ass to work with
and maintain solid geometry |
| 22:59.24 |
poolio |
``Erik: heh,
I tried that when I was trying to learn emacs/lisp and just ended
up crying. |
| 22:59.36 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 22:59.38 |
butti |
brlcad: I
think you gave me very much informations which I know to use...So I
think the next step for me is to draw the model from the beginning.
this project is quit easy to draw as would be in
original |
| 23:00.00 |
``Erik |
<--
comfortable with scheme, but is a vim guy, so the twisted
differences between scheme and common lisp, plus trying to learn
emacs... is interesting :) |
| 23:00.00 |
butti |
brlcad: no
cad prog likes meshes how I know |
| 23:00.02 |
louipc |
indeed! |
| 23:00.03 |
butti |
:( |
| 23:00.32 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Where's sbcl running? |
| 23:00.53 |
``Erik |
on my fbsd
box, same as the emacs |
| 23:01.00 |
poolio |
``Erik: you
have taken the emacs learning path!? Coming from what? |
| 23:01.18 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 23:01.22 |
``Erik |
vim |
| 23:01.33 |
poolio |
``Erik:
that's what I use now. Tell me how it goes please. |
| 23:01.43 |
``Erik |
so far, not
so impressive |
| 23:02.04 |
starseeker |
``Erik: If
your brain doesn't explode, you will have reached some kind of
higher mental plane knowing both vim and Emacs ;-) |
| 23:02.13 |
brlcad |
butti: some
of the commercial CAD systems with billions behind their
development don't do too bad with meshes.. |
| 23:02.14 |
``Erik |
the major
arguments all kinda fall apart when ya get to 'em :/ but I'm sure
the same goes for the other direction |
| 23:02.30 |
brlcad |
and if you
have a billion dollars lying around, I'd be happy to make brl-cad
work well with meshes |
| 23:02.35 |
brlcad |
just for you
even |
| 23:02.38 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 23:02.59 |
poolio |
brlcad:
aren't you the generous one! |
| 23:03.03 |
brlcad |
i
am! |
| 23:03.12 |
poolio |
Heh, we don't
need that inflation |
| 23:03.28 |
starseeker |
(he might be
actually - some tasks of that nature are HARD) |
| 23:03.35 |
``Erik |
heh, did
barnie explode? :D |
| 23:03.52 |
starseeker |
barnie? |
| 23:04.12 |
``Erik |
yeah, y'know,
big purple dinosaur |
| 23:04.16 |
``Erik |
makes kids
retarded |
| 23:04.17 |
starseeker |
we can only
hope |
| 23:04.20 |
butti |
brlcad: how
it ist whith measuring of objects? |
| 23:04.21 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
you're probably still pretty darn far away from any sort of
efficiency |
| 23:04.54 |
brlcad |
especially if
you still didn't see the diff between meta keybinding commands and
modalities in vim |
| 23:04.59 |
``Erik |
obviously,
but I'm still working at it... *shrug* just noting that the big
arguments emacs advocates put forwards... well, are bunk
:) |
| 23:05.08 |
brlcad |
such
as? |
| 23:05.17 |
``Erik |
emacs is
starting to seem kinda modal when I want the meta key
*cough* |
| 23:05.22 |
brlcad |
modalities is
really the only/pain difference |
| 23:06.24 |
brlcad |
vim is modal,
emacs is non-modal during editing, quasi-modal (actual term for it)
when invoking commands |
| 23:06.26 |
``Erik |
and the
buffers keep rearranging themselves and changing which ones are
visible or hidden |
| 23:07.00 |
``Erik |
hmmm, that
means modal, dude :D *duck* |
| 23:07.07 |
brlcad |
it
doesn't |
| 23:07.13 |
brlcad |
actually has
a defined meaning |
| 23:07.26 |
brlcad |
quasimodal is
very different from modal |
| 23:07.46 |
brlcad |
and still,
only applies to actions being taken -- editing/use is still
non-modal |
| 23:09.04 |
``Erik |
the thing I
trip up on most is having to use multiple keys or moving my hand to
move the cursor, I miss the home row fast navigation... I suppose
when my left pinky starts figuring out what to do, it'll get
easier |
| 23:09.11 |
brlcad |
i'm not even
arguing that it's better or worse, but it is definitely different
in the impact and different type of modality interface |
| 23:09.29 |
``Erik |
*shrug* but
I'm still sticking with it |
| 23:09.43 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
just memory/familiarity - that part is no diff to vim
really |
| 23:10.33 |
``Erik |
"jjj^H^H^H<down><down><down>"
hehehhe :D |
| 23:11.00 |
brlcad |
same goes for
learning to manage your buffers, tweaking settings if auto-buffer
arrangement isn't your style |
| 23:11.16 |
brlcad |
ctrl-n/p |
| 23:11.21 |
brlcad |
next/previous
line |
| 23:11.30 |
brlcad |
just like
console |
| 23:11.41 |
``Erik |
<-- set -o
vi |
| 23:11.48 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
nuts :) |
| 23:11.50 |
``Erik |
later, butti
:) |
| 23:11.57 |
butti |
bye |
| 23:11.58 |
brlcad |
cya
butti |
| 23:12.53 |
brlcad |
poor guy, any
job that depends on learning a new cad package (*any* new cad
package) in under 10 days is nuts |
| 23:13.01 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 23:13.05 |
``Erik |
ludicrous
even |
| 23:13.31 |
``Erik |
just remember
to put on your seat belt if going to ludicrous speed |
| 23:26.29 |
brlcad |
butti: fyi,
the units on your model are wrong, unless you intentionally modeled
something about 20mm in size .. have to scale it up by about a
factor of 1000 |
| 23:26.58 |
brlcad |
and it has
several distinct objects intersecting that shouldn't |
| 23:37.06 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtedge seems to get stuck in a loop at
the end of rendering, has to be killed |
| 23:38.58 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:39.19 |
``Erik |
under what
circumstances? |
| 23:40.01 |
brlcad |
seems any
rtedge I run |
| 23:40.16 |
``Erik |
O.o 2
cpu? |
| 23:40.19 |
brlcad |
it gets to
completion, sends everything to the framebuffer and then just
hangs |
| 23:40.22 |
brlcad |
yeah,
2 |
| 23:40.30 |
``Erik |
weird |
| 23:40.51 |
brlcad |
hm -P1
works |
| 23:42.26 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 23:42.34 |
``Erik |
or it might
be related to the image saving in libbu |
| 23:42.38 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: works with -P1 |
| 23:42.56 |
``Erik |
I'll dork
with it tomorrow, I'm watching dr who, then cartoons, then
sleep |
| 23:42.58 |
brlcad |
rt is
fine |
| 23:42.59 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 23:43.15 |
brlcad |
and this is
rendering to framebuffer, not file |
| 23:43.27 |
``Erik |
hum,
ok |
| 23:52.47 |
brlcad |
hm, perhaps a
race condition on lastlinedone |
| 23:53.38 |
brlcad |
maybe just
because the lines don't have to be in order |
| 00:13.34 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: eliminate vararg and non-ansi
cray-specific support code |
| 00:21.54 |
brlcad |
FYI, if you
run screen on .bz, I've made a simple 'rx' script that reattaches
you to your existing screen session |
| 00:31.11 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: ws expand for
readability |
| 00:33.45 |
``Erik |
O.o "screen
-r" is that tricky? |
| 00:40.22 |
brlcad |
not in the
least |
| 00:40.37 |
brlcad |
it's just a
shorthand that saves the typing (for what is a fairly frequent
command for me) |
| 00:41.04 |
brlcad |
two chars vs
12-22 chars |
| 00:42.13 |
brlcad |
it does an -x
instead of an -r, I like em in parallel myself |
| 00:48.48 |
brlcad |
dear god
man |
| 00:49.03 |
brlcad |
it's a
toolbox essential |
| 00:49.18 |
brlcad |
almost as
necessary as learning a decent editor |
| 00:55.25 |
starseeker |
heh - and I
thought using fluxbox was going minimalist on the graphical desktop
side... ;-) |
| 00:55.50 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: don't call va_start until
after making sure it's not a null format |
| 00:58.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/bomb.c include/bu.h): |
| 00:58.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: add
a new bu_exit() function that never returns. this function differs
from |
| 00:58.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
bu_bomb() in that it supports an error code and printf style
arguments. it |
| 00:58.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
should not be used for 'exceptional' exit conditions where
stability and |
| 00:58.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
validity are in question; it should be used when you simply want to
politely |
| 00:58.51 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: exit
the application after printing a message (like printing application
usage |
| 00:58.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: and
exiting). |
| 00:59.24 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: oops, remove
debugging |
| 01:02.11 |
starseeker |
brlcad: If
you can remember this far back, how long did it take you for the
key bindings to become second nature on screen? |
| 01:03.27 |
brlcad |
hm, a few
days iirc |
| 01:03.40 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: stfu about the longjmp
handler being taken. the user doesn't care and the message is
rather misleading. |
| 01:03.59 |
brlcad |
getting used
to ctrl-a a and ctrl-a e were the tricky ones as I use them all
the time |
| 01:04.09 |
brlcad |
but now it's
pretty fluid whether i'm in screen or not |
| 01:04.31 |
starseeker |
Cool. |
| 01:04.56 |
brlcad |
you'll want
to learn ctrl-a f for flow control and ctrl-a F to "resize" the
screen window (if you reattach from a terminal of a different
size) |
| 01:05.12 |
brlcad |
it's
basically persistent shell sessions, so long as the machine stays
up |
| 01:05.46 |
brlcad |
so I can be
on irc 24/7 or have instant access to various remote servers that I
need, dedicated windows to watch various log files, etc |
| 01:06.56 |
starseeker |
Ah, OK. Very
nice! |
| 01:07.39 |
starseeker |
I can
definitely see where this would help avoid the need to use the
mouse... |
| 01:07.56 |
brlcad |
particularly
if you run screen on a server that's always up (e.g. .bz) then you
can even ssh out from there to various hosts and keep windows open
to them |
| 01:08.38 |
brlcad |
you can then
attach to that session on the remote server from anywhere and get
back to your "console workspace" |
| 01:09.22 |
starseeker |
So a screen
"session" would consist of all the windows open in that particular
instance of screen? |
| 01:09.23 |
brlcad |
other useful
commands are creating a new screen (ctrl-a c) and navigating
(ctrl-a n or p) |
| 01:09.39 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 01:09.42 |
brlcad |
they all
persist |
| 01:10.09 |
starseeker |
That's
nifty. |
| 01:10.44 |
starseeker |
On a machine
without an X server, this has to be a "must" |
| 01:10.53 |
brlcad |
so, for
example, I log into .bz where my screen session consists of one
context that has irssi always running, another has e-mail, another
has various logfiles being watched, and then others are
created/destroyed as needed depending on things I'm working
on |
| 01:11.39 |
brlcad |
even with an
X server .. it's low overhead, mouseless, efficient
console/workspace management |
| 01:12.28 |
starseeker |
Interesting -
like the command line itself, it gives a considerable efficiency
increase for a small initial educational investment |
| 01:13.52 |
starseeker |
Which email
client do you use - Mutt? |
| 01:14.53 |
brlcad |
heh, I'm
still a pine die hard |
| 01:15.11 |
starseeker |
Hehe -
haven't used pine since my undergrad days |
| 01:15.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 01:15.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
user-visible change.. removed longjmp warning message from
applications that was |
| 01:15.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
called during bu_bomb's where an application exception handler was
registered. |
| 01:15.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: this
was a common cause for confusion in the converters that use the
jump |
| 01:15.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
handler during normal operations quite frequently -- made it look
like the |
| 01:15.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
application was repeatedly 'crashing' during conversion yet the
application |
| 01:15.24 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
would keep processing. |
| 01:15.44 |
starseeker |
I should try
Mutt - right now I'm using thunderbird and it gets on my nerves
sometimes... |
| 01:15.47 |
brlcad |
I've used
mutt, it's fine .. but I rather like pine's no-nonesense simplicity
(which obviously removes a lot of functionality) |
| 01:16.22 |
brlcad |
a list of
messages, message folders, basic attachment support, I'm
good |
| 01:17.12 |
brlcad |
I rather like
Apple Mail as well, incremental searching of all mailboxes in
realtime is shibby cool |
| 01:17.35 |
starseeker |
sweet |
| 01:17.44 |
brlcad |
nice to see
that applications are finally starting to learn from emacs'
incremental searching that was done 20 years ago :) |
| 01:18.03 |
starseeker |
heh - some
things do seem to catch on slow, don't they? |
| 01:18.27 |
brlcad |
yeah, like
brl-cad and a nice gui ;) |
| 01:18.34 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 01:19.31 |
starseeker |
at the very
least, it mixes VTK and QT |
| 01:19.35 |
brlcad |
hm, I wonder
what kind of response I'd get if I started a project where I'd pay
people to find and fix bugs |
| 01:20.07 |
brlcad |
something
like $1 to find them and $10 if they provide a fix |
| 01:20.39 |
brlcad |
the bugs
would have to be approved beforehand so someone doesn't just dump
1000 bugs down and expect 10000 in payment of course, but I think
something like that might work |
| 01:20.52 |
``Erik |
some 'bugs'
are opinion :/ |
| 01:20.58 |
starseeker |
That was my
thought |
| 01:21.07 |
brlcad |
yep, exactly
why they'd have to be approved |
| 01:21.42 |
starseeker |
It might have
some potential, both for utility and as an advertising
mechanism |
| 01:22.18 |
brlcad |
could use the
tracker system .. the poster of the message would get the $1, and
the first to attach a patch (after the tracker state went from
submitted to acknowledged) would get a paypal |
| 01:22.43 |
starseeker |
well, first
patch that was verified to fix the bug |
| 01:23.27 |
brlcad |
I could see
putting 1k towards something like this |
| 01:23.36 |
brlcad |
get 100 bugs
fixed |
| 01:24.42 |
starseeker |
Might be
worth a shot |
| 01:25.23 |
brlcad |
the idea
would be to only approve bugs that would likely take about an hour
to find the bug, create a patch, and document it |
| 01:25.57 |
starseeker |
Right.
Spelling errors in comments need not apply |
| 01:26.15 |
brlcad |
would have to
quantify that into the instructions of course -- don't care if the
bug is something like a documentation bug, "manual page is missing
-g option" |
| 01:26.27 |
brlcad |
yeah, though
I certainly wouldn't call that a bug |
| 01:26.51 |
starseeker |
me either,
but people can have surprisingly "elastic" definitions at
times... |
| 01:27.26 |
brlcad |
a bug is a
run-time flaw that either causes a crash/corruption, or is run-time
behavior that contradicts the documented and expected
behavior |
| 01:27.53 |
starseeker |
Oh, I was
wondering earlier - has the use of unit testing in BRL-CAD ever
been considered? |
| 01:27.58 |
starseeker |
That's a good
definition |
| 01:28.39 |
brlcad |
there are
also compilation bugs and documentation bugs, but those rarely ever
take more than a couple minutes |
| 01:28.45 |
brlcad |
(to identify
and fix) |
| 01:28.50 |
starseeker |
Yep. |
| 01:29.43 |
brlcad |
yeah, unit
testing has been extensively considered.. |
| 01:30.03 |
brlcad |
right now,
it's just a bunch of simple integration tests that tests overall
functionality |
| 01:30.27 |
brlcad |
with the idea
that the tests would be expanded to even more and more tests,
particularly as issues are found |
| 01:31.11 |
starseeker |
OK. |
| 01:31.14 |
brlcad |
now as to
doing actual code unit testing, the issue there has always been
that there's about a million lines of existing code, thousands of
"units" that one would want to test, and nobody wants to
write/maintain that code at the moment |
| 01:31.27 |
starseeker |
Figured
:-) |
| 01:31.56 |
brlcad |
it's enough
work as it is just to ensure that all the public functions are even
documented, much less write code that properly tests each
one |
| 01:32.35 |
brlcad |
so, we have
the minimal maintenance approach -- tests at a higher level,
integration tests that make sure apps end up doing what they're
expected to do |
| 01:32.46 |
starseeker |
Makes
sense. |
| 01:33.47 |
brlcad |
still could
be way better than what we have, and if someone pulled up a test
generator that wrote a test for each routine, it could be a laundry
list to fill in the guts for each test as people feel like
it |
| 01:34.52 |
brlcad |
did something
"vaguely" related with the new flawfinder 'test' that is in the
regression suite -- it runs flawfinder and if there are any items
reported at/above the level specified, it means that someone made a
function call that wasn't allowed (like bob a few days
ago) |
| 01:35.26 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 01:35.35 |
brlcad |
had to change
a few hundred instances of code just to get it down to level 5, but
that was good/necessary code cleanup |
| 01:36.04 |
brlcad |
I should have
level 4 done soon, fixed about 700 issues with about 400
remaining |
| 01:36.15 |
starseeker |
Impressive. |
| 01:36.32 |
brlcad |
that's
probably a good balance.. level 3 is just flawfinder being picky
:) |
| 01:36.43 |
starseeker |
Most of these
were never triggered by "normal" BRL-CAD use? |
| 01:37.05 |
brlcad |
oh,
flawfinder just does a static code analysis |
| 01:37.12 |
starseeker |
Oh,
OK. |
| 01:37.24 |
brlcad |
it looks that
you're using function BLAH, and BLAH is in it's level N
list |
| 01:37.51 |
brlcad |
e.g. you're
using strcmp, which is generally unsafe .. should use strncmp to
make sure you don't read past your memory buffer |
| 01:38.17 |
starseeker |
Gotcha. |
| 01:38.26 |
brlcad |
so whether
they're actually security holes or not depends massively on how the
logic is structured |
| 01:39.13 |
brlcad |
but they're
certainly "potentially" exploitable situations that are almost
never absolutely necessary, so we can eliminate the ones we have
and keep it at a given level (e.g. level 4) |
| 01:39.35 |
brlcad |
splint blew
chunks on brl-cad's code last I tried it |
| 01:39.39 |
brlcad |
had trouble
parsing several files |
| 01:39.50 |
starseeker |
hmm.
pity |
| 01:40.04 |
starseeker |
their parser
isn't up to snuff? |
| 01:40.06 |
brlcad |
would be
worth trying again, that was years ago |
| 01:40.34 |
brlcad |
would make
for yet another good test to add after getting flawfinder down to
level 3 issues only |
| 01:41.02 |
brlcad |
flawfinder
was nice because I could just add it to the sourcebase as it's just
a few thousand line perl script |
| 01:41.14 |
brlcad |
s/perl/python/ |
| 01:41.17 |
starseeker |
Ah, that is
nice. |
| 01:41.24 |
brlcad |
1877
lines |
| 01:41.28 |
brlcad |
er
1866 |
| 01:43.01 |
starseeker |
IIRC someone
had a one line perl script to decode the Matrix DVD back when the
whole DeCSS thing was all the rage... |
| 01:43.16 |
brlcad |
yeah, you can
do some really crazy stuff |
| 01:44.07 |
brlcad |
I have
several perl programs that I've gone back to after many many years
have passed, with absolutely no idea what the code does other than
what the comments say |
| 01:44.50 |
brlcad |
they sure can
be fast and compact to write though ... great for little cleanup
and temporary processing tasks |
| 01:45.17 |
starseeker |
If there's
some way to measure how much like line noise legal program source
code can be made to look as a function of the language, I'll bet
Perl wins |
| 01:45.20 |
starseeker |
true |
| 01:46.05 |
brlcad |
that's how
the majority of BRL-CAD's files got a standard header and footer
that were auto-populated with existing documentation pulled from
within the file's existing contents including doxygen
labels |
| 01:46.20 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 01:46.29 |
brlcad |
as well as a
few other processing tasks I've had to do over the
years |
| 01:46.54 |
brlcad |
things that
awk/sed/find -exec/and friends couldn't easily handle |
| 01:48.20 |
starseeker |
Just curious
- did you pick up all the various tools as you worked on BRL-CAD,
or did you learn them before that? |
| 01:48.28 |
brlcad |
both |
| 01:48.43 |
brlcad |
some before,
some after |
| 01:49.36 |
starseeker |
Impressive. |
| 01:49.37 |
brlcad |
over the
years, just learning the tools as needed depending on what is
generally best for the job instead of trying to make the tools I
know fit the job |
| 01:49.51 |
starseeker |
That's the
way to do it. |
| 01:50.00 |
starseeker |
I wish that
approach was more common |
| 01:50.40 |
brlcad |
it really
helps to know/learn several different styles of programming
languages too, just gives you a better fundamental
understanding |
| 01:50.55 |
brlcad |
and not just
procedural and object-oriented |
| 01:51.19 |
starseeker |
Indeed. |
| 01:51.31 |
brlcad |
though those
are certainly really great starts |
| 01:51.52 |
starseeker |
We had a
semester in college where they went over a few different languages,
but I think they need to do a lot more of it. |
| 01:53.53 |
brlcad |
this "liberal
arts" that you speak of.. it confuses me |
| 01:54.03 |
brlcad |
what
engineering department do they teach that in? :) |
| 01:54.07 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 01:54.32 |
starseeker |
Guess I
should have said "typical undergraduate education: |
| 01:54.35 |
brlcad |
j/k, I loved
some of my arts and crafts classes :) |
| 01:54.49 |
Maloeran |
Liberal arts,
that must be part of web design |
| 01:54.54 |
brlcad |
the breadth
of knowledge is impressive |
| 01:55.14 |
starseeker |
Actually, my
advanced English class was a lot of fun. (Don't tell any of my
physics peers I said so though...) |
| 01:55.32 |
starseeker |
Turns out it
really sucked to be a contemporary of Shakespeare |
| 01:56.52 |
starseeker |
Everyone else
kinda got swamped in the history books, despite some decent writers
being around... |
| 01:56.53 |
brlcad |
yeah, I can
see that .. my advanced Spanish class was a lot of fun too .. read
a book a week and write an in-depth report on it that everyone
discusses |
| 01:57.24 |
starseeker |
Cool
:-) |
| 01:58.05 |
starseeker |
or "muy bien"
as it were |
| 01:58.36 |
brlcad |
took the
placement test for kicks, but then found out I almost aced it and
placed out of two years of the full-time undergrad courses .. so my
courses actually counted towards my engineering "language
requirements" at that level just as if it were an english
course |
| 01:59.01 |
starseeker |
Sweet |
| 01:59.04 |
poolio |
college.
:) |
| 01:59.11 |
brlcad |
was 4 classes
away from a degree in spanish |
| 01:59.18 |
brlcad |
dunno wtf I
would have ever done with that though :) |
| 01:59.48 |
starseeker |
I'm convinced
the second AP test I took in English is proof that essay grading is
impossible to do correctly... |
| 02:00.17 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Well, you could translate the BRL-CAD docs :-) |
| 02:00.33 |
brlcad |
and those
last 4 classes would have been utter hell .. learning the etimology
and history of the language, reading books in "old spanish" and
matching them to the context of the times they were written in so
that language analyses could be performed, etc .. bleh |
| 02:00.44 |
starseeker |
Ouch |
| 02:01.18 |
poolio |
I'm
only...like 30 classes away from any degree |
| 02:01.31 |
starseeker |
poolio: Hang
in there :-) |
| 02:01.42 |
brlcad |
once you get
past the 'basic comprehension' phase and get into the "study of
spanish" as a language, the fun level drops fast :) |
| 02:01.48 |
brlcad |
poolio:
hehe |
| 02:01.51 |
poolio |
And I'm
having second thoughts on my major, so yeah... |
| 02:02.00 |
starseeker |
poolio:
What's your current major? |
| 02:02.10 |
poolio |
I'm currently
ECE--Electrical and Computer Engineering |
| 02:02.36 |
starseeker |
That can be
cool, especially if you like the lower level work. |
| 02:03.06 |
brlcad |
I remember
having that thought my first year.. "Hmm.. 6 classes + electives
and I have a BA in Spanish... or 20+ classes + electives and I have
a BS" |
| 02:03.08 |
poolio |
Thing is I
don't, I'm more of an algorithms dude. But I'm not really
interested in pure CS. I'm thinking of just doing biology or some
such |
| 02:03.32 |
starseeker |
(me thinks
the CADR Lisp Machines are neat but prefers to work with software -
fewer burned fingers and mistakes are easier to fix.) |
| 02:03.49 |
brlcad |
poolio:
applied mathematics? :) |
| 02:03.51 |
starseeker |
Biology is a
good field to go into - lots of growth |
| 02:03.56 |
poolio |
Always
:) |
| 02:04.21 |
poolio |
brlcad: eh,
I'm not that hardcore into math. I thought I was really into AI for
a while but I'm not so sure anymore. |
| 02:04.37 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 02:04.42 |
poolio |
The issue is
my school is mainly CS/Engineering based so majoring in something
else here isn't going to look very good in the future |
| 02:04.48 |
brlcad |
well, that's
the great part of college, find what you really love |
| 02:05.16 |
poolio |
Hope
to |
| 02:05.21 |
starseeker |
My advice
would be to follow what you want to do - forcing yourself to do
something you don't like usually doesn't pay off in the long
run |
| 02:05.23 |
brlcad |
there was one
guy in my graduating class that came in dead-set on some
engineering discipline iirc, or maybe history |
| 02:06.03 |
starseeker |
Transferring
schools isn't unheard of by any means, if your school isn't strong
in what you want |
| 02:06.07 |
brlcad |
he went away
one summer and got a job at a state park after the first semester,
and after that he was dead set on a carrier in being a state park
ranger |
| 02:06.30 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 02:06.40 |
starseeker |
I can see
where that would have it's perks. |
| 02:06.42 |
brlcad |
and all of
his classes afterwards were directly in support of that (and they
of course hired him on the spot, he was dead passionate about
it) |
| 02:07.28 |
poolio |
that's
awesome |
| 02:07.34 |
poolio |
I've been
mountain biking a ton in a local state park |
| 02:09.04 |
starseeker |
Well, I'd
better hit the hay - this next week is going to be a
doozie. |
| 02:09.09 |
starseeker |
Thanks all -
good stuff! |
| 02:11.39 |
poolio |
nite |
| 02:24.55 |
brlcad |
poolio:
awesome |
| 02:25.04 |
brlcad |
see ya
guys |
| 03:57.23 |
poolio |
brlcad: you
still around? I"m getting a mildly confusing linker
error |
| 03:57.45 |
poolio |
/home/poolio/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g:
error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open
shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 03:57.59 |
poolio |
(during
build) |
| 04:29.38 |
brlcad |
jeez |
| 04:30.06 |
brlcad |
wth is
causing that .. you're not the first to report that issue, yet I
don't have a single system that shows that problem |
| 04:30.50 |
louipc |
what's the
test? |
| 04:30.54 |
brlcad |
try removing
the two LD_LIB lines in db/Makefile.am |
| 04:31.26 |
louipc |
oh build
error |
| 04:32.15 |
brlcad |
it's trying
to run the asc2g converter in db to generate the example .g files
-- to do that, libtool creates an lt-asc2g that is supposed to work
with the as-yet-not-installed libraries .. "some" change in the
linking logic seems to be provoking libtool to failure on some
subset of systems |
| 04:34.03 |
brlcad |
presumably
some consistent (bugged) version of libtool or some distro with the
same config setup |
| 04:35.50 |
louipc |
why not just
distribute .g files instead of converting? |
| 04:36.33 |
brlcad |
have thought
about it |
| 04:36.47 |
brlcad |
in part so
that the contents of the files can be tracked in revision
control |
| 04:36.47 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: more consistent echo output,
use rt suffix for the solids.rt render script |
| 04:36.53 |
brlcad |
instead of
being binary files |
| 04:37.00 |
louipc |
ah
right |
| 04:37.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (14 files): more consistent echo
output |
| 04:37.55 |
brlcad |
other part is
in part to verify that compilation succeeded prior to
installation |
| 04:38.40 |
brlcad |
just a pita
to fight libtool issues with what it tries to keep track
of |
| 04:39.22 |
brlcad |
if I could
get a system to reproduce the error, I could probably find a
work-around fix |
| 04:39.22 |
louipc |
yes I've
heard of libtool issues heh |
| 04:39.35 |
brlcad |
yeah, don't
get me started on libtool |
| 04:39.51 |
brlcad |
it's the
weakest of the (already flaky) autotools build chain |
| 04:40.11 |
brlcad |
still useful
overall, but sometimes a royal pita |
| 04:45.06 |
poolio |
brlcad:
remove the LD_LIBRARY_PATH lines? |
| 04:45.35 |
poolio |
and why in
db/Makefile.am? Isn't the issue with
src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g? |
| 04:46.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: |
| 04:46.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
refactor and use the new bu_exit() instead of bombing on normal
exit conditions. |
| 04:46.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: also
fix a bug where specifying the the same filename for the dxf and g
file |
| 04:46.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
would result in it actually 'working' because it called wdb_open()
to |
| 04:46.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
open/create the the .g output file before checking if the dxf
exists. really |
| 04:46.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
minor but happened to run into it when 'dxf-g asdf asdf'
surprisingly completed |
| 04:46.31 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
successfuly |
| 05:23.44 |
brlcad |
ugh, nearly
2000 instances of bu_bomb to check |
| 05:23.58 |
poolio |
eek. |
| 05:24.09 |
poolio |
is this for
flawfindger or some such? |
| 05:24.29 |
poolio |
s/flawfindger/flawfinder |
| 05:31.52 |
brlcad |
no, I changed
the interface |
| 05:32.27 |
poolio |
eek. I think
that effects my tiny portion of code too |
| 05:32.50 |
brlcad |
bu_bomb() was
a general catch-all application abort, initially only intended as a
means to abort from generally unrecoverable situations (like being
out of memory or detecting outright memory corruption) |
| 05:33.08 |
brlcad |
over the
years, it grew to be a convenient means to abort with a
message |
| 05:34.07 |
brlcad |
will now that
we have automatic crash-report generation, it really needed to
distinguish between the core critical aborts (like corruption) and
'normal' application exits |
| 05:34.40 |
poolio |
what
automatic crash-report generation do you have? |
| 05:34.49 |
brlcad |
so there's a
new bu_exit() routine .. so I have to go through the 2000 or so
callers of bu_bomb() one at a time and determine if it's something
that would be potentially useful to have a crash report
of |
| 05:35.54 |
poolio |
Did you write
this up somewhere or is this brand new? |
| 05:35.59 |
brlcad |
brand
new |
| 05:36.13 |
poolio |
And so
bu_bomb does the stack trace and what not, bu_exit() exits with a
message? |
| 05:36.23 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 05:36.51 |
poolio |
makes sense.
have fun :) |
| 05:36.55 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 05:37.07 |
brlcad |
code
gardening |
| 05:37.13 |
brlcad |
happens |
| 05:37.19 |
poolio |
that's what
interns are for |
| 05:37.38 |
brlcad |
sometimes |
| 05:37.55 |
brlcad |
I generally
like to put interns on stuff that's actually fun |
| 05:38.24 |
poolio |
Heh. I'm very
happy about that :) |
| 05:38.55 |
brlcad |
don't always
succeed, but I certainly try :) |
| 05:40.17 |
brlcad |
some kids
just aren't motivated by code, or aren't capable of
touching/editing code safely |
| 05:42.33 |
poolio |
yeah...but
don't the interns kind of choose what they're interested in based
on their skills? Like are you given interns to put to work or is it
some sort of selection process? |
| 05:46.12 |
brlcad |
'yes' |
| 05:47.26 |
brlcad |
it's a mix,
an exceptional mix of talent .. and depends heavily on whether they
are hs or college usually (or at least how much experience they
have thinking for themselves) |
| 05:49.38 |
poolio |
well, I must
sleep. 9:30 class tomorrow. ta ta |
| 06:33.05 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot
(i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 06:33.05 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet,
more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent |
| 07:33.49 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 08:06.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:06.20 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:09.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:37.40 |
brlcad |
yeah, I
shoudl probably do that too |
| 08:43.56 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: have
you heard computer generated singing? |
| 08:44.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h nmg.h): tweak debug log messages
for consistency |
| 08:44.36 |
Z80-Boy |
http://cslu.cse.ogi.edu/tts/flinger/jukebox/song10.mp3 |
| 08:44.43 |
Z80-Boy |
http://cslu.cse.ogi.edu/tts/flinger/jukebox/song1.mp3 |
| 08:46.21 |
Z80-Boy |
I wrote a
string synthesizer a C program that takes a guitar tab in ASCII on
stdin and spits a .wav file on the stdout |
| 08:46.34 |
Z80-Boy |
http://ronja.twibright.com/gut_feeling.mp3 |
| 08:48.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (14 files): |
| 08:48.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
first 10% of the review of the bu_bomb() instances. updating many
to bu_exit() |
| 08:48.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: for
the instances where the error or exit condition aren't catastrophic
errors |
| 08:48.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
(i.e. they wouldn't benefit from having a stack trace of how we got
into that |
| 08:48.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
state code-wise). this also makes it easier to refactor usages of
log & exit |
| 08:48.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: too
to the new routine. |
| 08:52.44 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-082-070.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:52.58 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: more bu_bomb to bu_exit
conversions |
| 09:07.15 |
*** join/#brlcad butti_
(n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:07.27 |
butti_ |
he
all |
| 09:07.54 |
butti_ |
brlcad: 20 mm
must be something about 20 m..Blender has no units at
all |
| 09:08.20 |
butti_ |
brlcad: just
grids whit 1 unit |
| 09:09.50 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:10.00 |
*** part/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:10.31 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:11.24 |
butti |
brlcad: mabe
its enogh to scall it 1mm to 1m..thats all |
| 09:22.23 |
butti |
brlcad: I
would be very intrested to learn about this software and I will ask
you for help not only one time. For this moment, Im runnig already
another taktic. No time for brlcad :(. My Project needs to be
finished (some objects must be chenge and new will coming. So if
plan to make something from this file, which I gave you, pls dont,
is not ready yet. I will draw in qcad each view in 2d. I will take
a shot from blender wires view and take the |
| 09:26.52 |
*** part/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:37.50 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:42.32 |
butti |
brlcad: do
you know the software javawiew? I love to work with that. Lot of
inspirations comes from this app to me. It has almost the same
gui. It is an app. which is working with mathematical formel and
its make quit the same what all 3d progs doing. It is lovely. Take
a look at that! http://www.javaview.de/ |
| 09:58.44 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543972.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 11:12.45 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 13:40.21 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 14:09.48 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: use bu_exit() instead
of bu_log() on unknown argument (I think that's what was
intended... segfaults using bu_log with given args) |
| 14:25.47 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: make i unsigned
to match nsemaphores |
| 14:46.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/htester.c: |
| 14:46.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: Add
missing include for bu.h. Fixed sign issues. Rearranged and
modernized. |
| 14:46.28 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
Added -v (version) flag and improved argument checking. |
| 15:16.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548743D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:35.37 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: start stubbing in the
-c stuff |
| 15:36.44 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX33.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 15:42.15 |
``Erik |
oi,
hoolio |
| 15:58.28 |
bpoole |
mornin' |
| 16:13.27 |
brlcad |
butti: heh,
blender does have units, just doesn't expose them very
well |
| 16:13.40 |
brlcad |
butti: no,
I'm not familiar with javawiew |
| 16:15.37 |
butti |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:15.41 |
brlcad |
ahh, it's
like mathematica's plugin, but in java |
| 16:15.50 |
brlcad |
shame it's
not open source |
| 16:17.02 |
butti |
brlcad: you
cant change the units to meter or zoll,,this is like that an im
gald about that |
| 16:17.46 |
brlcad |
it wasn't a
problem, it's trivial to scale it up even after importing into
brl-cad |
| 16:18.21 |
butti |
sure |
| 16:18.48 |
``Erik |
*shudder* |
| 16:18.53 |
brlcad |
I noticed
because rtedge takes the absolute size into account when
determining whether to draw an edge -- several of the features were
"too small" when I first rendered it |
| 16:19.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: crude -c
functionality |
| 16:19.19 |
``Erik |
yes, rtedge
should use like a fraction of scene bounding sphere or something
O.o |
| 16:19.44 |
``Erik |
*shudder*
don't look at that patch, I'm fighting ugly with ugly to get
something in their hands fast, and am starting to fix
it... |
| 16:19.57 |
``Erik |
oh, um, heh,
that's right, I was gonna look at that :D |
| 16:20.12 |
brlcad |
i won't, I"m
on a bu_exit() frenzy probably for the rest of the day |
| 16:20.40 |
``Erik |
yeah, I had
to fix one of those in src/conv/g-nmg.c O.o |
| 16:20.40 |
brlcad |
different
semaphore bug |
| 16:21.00 |
``Erik |
bu_log(1,
"blah", argv[0]); ? O.o |
| 16:21.27 |
brlcad |
there's
"some" bug in rt at least where it'll crash during raytrace,
something is either not being protected or something in semaphore.c
has changed that breaks it |
| 16:21.50 |
``Erik |
ohhh, the
src/libbu/semaphore.c ? heh, no, I'm just fixing trivial Wall type
errors there |
| 16:21.55 |
brlcad |
it's
exceptionally random, and seems to only happen a few % of the time,
so I've not been able to provoke it to find it |
| 16:22.09 |
``Erik |
hum, -p3000
help expose it? |
| 16:23.07 |
brlcad |
if I put rt
in a while loop rendering to /dev/null, it usually can happen
anywhere from a few dozen to few hundred iterations (and sometimes
not even then) |
| 16:23.49 |
``Erik |
does the bomb
code catch unexpected seggies and bus faults? |
| 16:24.51 |
``Erik |
hum, tcl85b1
triggers portaudit, 'ReadImage' has known buffer overflow issues
O.o |
| 16:25.22 |
brlcad |
no, I didn't
want to add the signal handlers before release until all the issues
were sorted out with bu_bomb() |
| 16:26.22 |
brlcad |
plus wasn't
positive about the scope of impact and how it'd play if there were
multiple signal handlers installed |
| 16:26.28 |
``Erik |
I guess pick
a fast machine multiproc and ask rt to render 1e6 frames in gdb or
dbx or something? :) |
| 16:26.52 |
``Erik |
without a
stack trace or something, it'd all be guessing |
| 16:27.12 |
brlcad |
I got stack
traces.. they're just .. bizarre |
| 16:27.42 |
``Erik |
url? |
| 16:28.34 |
brlcad |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m41c678a9 |
| 16:28.54 |
brlcad |
the moncount
was just because I made a profile build, happens with/without
it |
| 16:29.32 |
brlcad |
the *parent*
thread crashed there.. which should be just quietly waiting for the
threads to exit |
| 16:29.38 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 16:29.46 |
brlcad |
and that was
probably 1/3 into the ray-trace |
| 16:29.56 |
``Erik |
heh,
g_arb.c:798 is a variable decl on my source O.o |
| 16:30.22 |
brlcad |
that line
changes from crash to crash |
| 16:30.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:30.34 |
brlcad |
thread 0 is
usually the one that crashes though |
| 16:30.39 |
``Erik |
only tested
on a hackintosh? |
| 16:30.53 |
``Erik |
<-- tends
to favor bugchasing on bsd or even leenewx to a mac :/ |
| 16:32.00 |
``Erik |
find . -name
'*.[ch]' | xargs sed -i.bak 's/register //g' && cvs -z3
commit -m "damnit." |
| 16:32.01 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 16:32.02 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 16:32.54 |
``Erik |
make dist
&& open http://sf.net/projects/brlcad #
damnit. *cough* O:-) |
| 16:33.56 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 16:34.20 |
brlcad |
like I said,
I can't reliably reproduce it |
| 16:34.24 |
``Erik |
with the
rtedge not quitting issue, click closing the fb exist the program
with $? 0 |
| 16:34.59 |
brlcad |
everytime I
make a clean build with debug symbols, it seems to work, or the bt
in gdb is meaningless |
| 16:35.46 |
brlcad |
I ran a test
removing all the register keywords many years ago .. it actually
slowed down significantly |
| 16:36.10 |
brlcad |
would be
interesting to see if it's still the case |
| 16:36.14 |
``Erik |
O.O "rtedge
-F/dev/X havoc.g havoc" lingers the window |
| 16:36.28 |
brlcad |
linger is
default |
| 16:36.29 |
``Erik |
but the
program exits immediately after the performance stuff is
printed |
| 16:36.36 |
``Erik |
yeah, but
-F/dev/X should over-ride that |
| 16:36.38 |
``Erik |
no? |
| 16:36.46 |
brlcad |
no, that's
just X with defaults |
| 16:37.00 |
brlcad |
Xl would
force linger on (if it weren't the default) |
| 16:37.47 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
should actually download the newest code and try out if the arbn
bug is now gone in my situation |
| 16:37.57 |
``Erik |
and how do
you force linger OFF, then? |
| 16:38.07 |
brlcad |
and
/dev/Xt |
| 16:38.15 |
brlcad |
transient vs
lingering |
| 16:38.20 |
Z80-Boy |
The poll is
missing the entry "I use it for so long that I don't remember
anymore" |
| 16:38.35 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
yeah, should be fixed now |
| 16:39.51 |
Z80-Boy |
COngrats to
putting up the new website |
| 16:41.33 |
brlcad |
it's still
not quite ready, several issues to sort out |
| 16:41.49 |
brlcad |
but I'd like
more eyes on it to see how it renders |
| 16:43.06 |
Z80-Boy |
I use links
so it doesn't render |
| 16:43.17 |
Z80-Boy |
It's just all
gray |
| 16:44.34 |
``Erik |
that's
neat |
| 16:45.22 |
``Erik |
oh |
| 16:45.25 |
``Erik |
rt does it
for me, too |
| 16:46.34 |
``Erik |
"rt havoc.g
havoc" doesn't exit, but if I give it -F/dev/X -F/dev/Xl or
-F/dev/Xt, it does exit when it should |
| 17:36.33 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
screenshot? |
| 17:37.44 |
brlcad |
``Erik: using
full cpu? |
| 17:38.09 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@99.233.193.42) |
| 17:38.13 |
brlcad |
rtedge was
using full-cpu and never printed the raytrace complete
message |
| 17:38.28 |
yukonbob |
Hello,
whirled. |
| 17:38.35 |
``Erik |
didn't
look |
| 17:39.34 |
``Erik |
hum, it's
holding the cpu load up against 1 |
| 17:42.49 |
``Erik |
same behavior
with rt |
| 17:43.13 |
``Erik |
and right
click releases the program |
| 17:43.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (31 files in 5 dirs): |
| 17:43.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
whoosh, another 10% complete on the bu_bomb to bu_exit conversion
review. also |
| 17:43.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
includes a slew of custom exit() calls that can use bu_exit() as
well as toning |
| 17:43.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: down
a slew of overzealous exclamation point use. (20% complete
overall) |
| 17:44.16 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 17:44.20 |
``Erik |
grep -r '!!!'
src |
| 17:44.21 |
``Erik |
eeks |
| 17:45.05 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 17:45.11 |
``Erik |
and a lot
looks like john |
| 17:45.20 |
``Erik |
png tools,
pattern, ... |
| 17:51.22 |
brlcad |
it's just a
style thing, but for messages being sent to the user, the "emotion"
it conveys is a bit wierd sometimes :) |
| 17:51.48 |
``Erik |
<--
looking at printed strings, not code comments |
| 17:52.13 |
``Erik |
:) a bit
much, perhaps *shrug* but I'm not gonna jump in and do anything
right now, got other stuff to do |
| 17:52.43 |
brlcad |
hm, so i'm
apparently chunking through at about 10% every 2
hours.. |
| 17:52.58 |
brlcad |
that means I
have 16 hours to go .. oh joy |
| 17:53.09 |
``Erik |
when rt and
rtedge get wedged like that, the kill is in a wait4()
call |
| 17:53.23 |
poolio |
``Erik: a
snippet of your code reminds me of some commit you corrected in my
code earlier.... 8) |
| 17:53.49 |
``Erik |
so I'm
imagining that the fb process might not be releasing all the parent
fd's or something |
| 17:53.59 |
``Erik |
which
snippet? O.o |
| 17:54.21 |
``Erik |
adding
'#include "bu.h"' or something? O.o :D |
| 17:55.18 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 17:55.19 |
brlcad |
bu_bomb("Choke! ack! gasp!
wheeeeeeze.\n"); |
| 17:55.37 |
brlcad |
bu_bomb("choke, gasp,
*croak*\n"); |
| 17:55.44 |
brlcad |
funny
lee |
| 17:56.57 |
``Erik |
heh,
hopefully no one ever sees the output of a bu_bomb() *shrug*
:) |
| 17:57.35 |
``Erik |
hmmmm,
liboptical/treetherm.c |
| 17:57.41 |
``Erik |
sh_treetherm.c rather |
| 17:57.51 |
brlcad |
hence the
addition of bu_exit() .. bu_bomb() are conditions that shouldn't
ever be encountered |
| 17:58.45 |
brlcad |
yay, Heroes
tonight |
| 17:59.22 |
``Erik |
so clone can
have "-c [num]" |
| 17:59.59 |
``Erik |
if I can get
my freakin' browser off of http://www.primitiveways.com/
that is |
| 18:06.03 |
poolio |
``Erik:
"silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables
mid-scope" |
| 18:09.14 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 18:09.42 |
``Erik |
yes, in c90,
it's illegal to declare a variable anywhere but the beginning of
the scope (or block, if you like that word better) |
| 18:11.15 |
``Erik |
try compiling
with your CFLAGS containing something like '-Wall -W -Werror -ansi
-pedantic' some time... it'll hurt you... not as bad as, say,
splint, but it will :) |
| 18:13.23 |
poolio |
``Erik: I
know, I'm just saying you did the same thing with your last commit
:) |
| 18:18.47 |
``Erik |
'crude c
functionality'? |
| 18:18.49 |
``Erik |
-c |
| 18:19.14 |
poolio |
jah |
| 18:19.17 |
``Erik |
<-- not
understanding |
| 18:19.22 |
``Erik |
-c is a flag
to the clone command |
| 18:19.33 |
poolio |
errr |
| 18:20.14 |
poolio |
I was just
giving you a hard time for declaring a variable
mid-scope |
| 18:20.41 |
``Erik |
um, I don't
declare in mid scope |
| 18:21.00 |
``Erik |
curly
brackets define new scope, I have curly's around that
block |
| 18:21.23 |
``Erik |
or, rather;
show me where :) |
| 18:21.46 |
poolio |
ah
durrrrr. |
| 18:22.04 |
``Erik |
hum, speaking
of |
| 18:22.18 |
``Erik |
cmu, huh? do
you know or know of a lee salzman? |
| 18:26.38 |
``Erik |
!#~!@!~
fucker :( |
| 18:26.52 |
``Erik |
is the new
season already running? |
| 18:27.01 |
brlcad |
heh, for like
4 weeks dude |
| 18:27.09 |
``Erik |
feck |
| 18:27.54 |
``Erik |
bparker is
downstairs in ed's office, btw... waiting on computer accounts I
think, want anything relayed? |
| 18:28.14 |
brlcad |
my dvr
actually screwed up the weekend I went to cali |
| 18:28.34 |
brlcad |
just pulled
them off itunes instead |
| 18:28.44 |
``Erik |
hm, like
$2/ep? |
| 18:28.52 |
brlcad |
sure, "Hi
Bob!" .. see him tomorrow probably |
| 18:29.14 |
brlcad |
and i'm gonna
undo his chmod breakage |
| 18:29.45 |
brlcad |
probably can
get away with #define fchmod _fchmod for winderz |
| 18:30.22 |
``Erik |
heh, yeah, I
think the twist for a lot of posix on winnt is the _ prefix
:/ |
| 18:30.23 |
brlcad |
i'm about
ready to get rid of it |
| 18:30.37 |
``Erik |
and these
days, we can probably assume dos based windows is
irrelevant |
| 18:30.40 |
brlcad |
it's actually
made me watch more tv than before now that I can watch what I want
when I want |
| 18:30.48 |
brlcad |
thinking of
just going itunes-only |
| 18:31.00 |
brlcad |
buy ala cart
for the shows I care to watch |
| 18:31.09 |
``Erik |
still drm
damaged, though, no? |
| 18:31.15 |
brlcad |
calculated
that it would definitely be cheaper overall |
| 18:32.03 |
``Erik |
what, $40/mo
opposed to $80? |
| 18:32.36 |
poolio |
``Erik: nope,
sorry. |
| 18:33.00 |
brlcad |
yeah the
video is fuxored, though it can be burnt/ripped iirc |
| 18:33.01 |
``Erik |
he probably
graduated before you got there, hoolio :) |
| 18:33.11 |
brlcad |
not sure if
anyone's cracked it outright like has been done for
music |
| 18:33.36 |
brlcad |
140/mo and
you don't have a dvr? |
| 18:33.42 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548743D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:33.50 |
brlcad |
that must be
a handful of porn channels |
| 18:34.02 |
``Erik |
heh, no porn,
... well, not advertised as porn |
| 18:34.11 |
``Erik |
I think I
have like showtime or hbo or smething |
| 18:34.19 |
``Erik |
that I've
watched, like, once in the last 4 years |
| 18:34.52 |
brlcad |
i think dvr
is about 80/mo + whatever base service, so usually
100-120/mo |
| 18:35.23 |
brlcad |
i used to
have all the movie chans.. sure didn't cost 140/mo |
| 18:35.41 |
``Erik |
and I got the
digital package for 'discovery wings' and 'bbc', but 'discovery
wings' change to 'discovery military' (and I was a huge fan of the
history and 'learning to fly' shows), and the bbc here is mostly
crap like trading space and shit, not the onslaught of monty
python, black adder, red dwarf, etc in memphis |
| 18:36.04 |
``Erik |
and of course
the cable modem |
| 18:36.12 |
brlcad |
ahhh |
| 18:36.15 |
brlcad |
w/
internet |
| 18:36.17 |
brlcad |
that's the
diff |
| 18:36.26 |
``Erik |
that's
probably $50 of it |
| 18:36.30 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 18:36.33 |
``Erik |
like $45
service and $5 rental |
| 18:36.34 |
brlcad |
that's more
like it |
| 18:37.52 |
``Erik |
doxy in libbu
is good, right? |
| 18:37.58 |
brlcad |
afaik,
yeah |
| 18:38.06 |
brlcad |
almost
complete even |
| 18:38.40 |
``Erik |
I hate to say
it, but I think javadoc stomps doxygen for html output
:/ |
| 18:40.28 |
poolio |
people here
use Doxygen for a lot of projects |
| 18:41.52 |
brlcad |
with the
defaults it does .. default html output sucks hairy ones; but it's
fairly configurable and can be made to look as
good/better |
| 18:59.07 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 19:07.00 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: convenience wrappers for
comparing vls's |
| 19:17.04 |
``Erik |
make -s in
src/conv puts me in a beavis and butthead mood O.o |
| 19:19.44 |
``Erik |
:w |
| 19:20.15 |
``Erik |
I mean, uh,
^C-w or something |
| 19:23.46 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: silly coder, semicolons
don't go there |
| 19:30.40 |
brlcad |
``Erik: is
the bu_vls_strcmp() one really needed? |
| 19:30.59 |
brlcad |
I'm in the
process of eliminating most instances of strcmp for
flawfinder |
| 19:31.19 |
``Erik |
not
particularly, but the pattern is in several places (5 that I've
noticed) |
| 19:31.22 |
brlcad |
with vls, you
always know the length of both |
| 19:32.07 |
brlcad |
you mean
pattern where that define is made? |
| 19:32.21 |
``Erik |
the
strcmp(bu_vls_addr(), bu_vls_addr()) |
| 19:32.27 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 19:32.59 |
``Erik |
and I
searched through vls for a bit looking for the compare functions,
seemed there ought to be one |
| 19:33.34 |
``Erik |
<--
working clone into being vls heavy, has the 'other 4' ready for
commit to use the macro... |
| 19:33.57 |
``Erik |
if it's
excessive, I can up -AC them instead of commit |
| 19:34.02 |
brlcad |
should
probably make the corresponding bu_vls_strcmp() func then, so it
can do the validity checking like the other vls str*
funcs |
| 19:34.13 |
``Erik |
yeah, I was
thinking of doing that |
| 19:34.16 |
brlcad |
yeah, just
nobody refactored to create one yet |
| 19:34.43 |
``Erik |
heh, I was
kinda thinking of trying to optimize them by doing length
comparisons first, but then ya don't know if -1 or 1 is the correct
return value |
| 19:35.08 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 19:35.33 |
``Erik |
even though
every use is ==0 or !=0 so far... someone will try pushing it
through qsort or something eventually heh |
| 19:36.02 |
``Erik |
validation
would be good, I was just taking a baby step that direction for
now |
| 19:36.56 |
``Erik |
do I commit
the consumer files, or back out the macros? |
| 19:37.33 |
brlcad |
yeah, that'd
be a freaking hard bug to find |
| 19:37.50 |
brlcad |
whatever
suits you |
| 19:38.13 |
brlcad |
won't matter
until time to release :) |
| 19:38.28 |
``Erik |
<-- kinda
prefers completeness for core functionality |
| 19:38.56 |
brlcad |
both probably
need to happen, so it's just a matter of which first :) |
| 19:39.16 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm-generic.c mged/cmd.c
mged/share.c mged/vrlink.c): move to using the new bu_vls_strcmp
macro |
| 19:39.28 |
``Erik |
clone.c needs
testing, I've done a lot in there |
| 19:39.40 |
brlcad |
wonder if
flawfinder will bitch on bu_vls_strcmp .. it seems braindead in its
string matching sometimes |
| 19:40.06 |
brlcad |
i noticed
that it complains about some macros that call strcmp that it
completely gets wrong |
| 19:40.47 |
``Erik |
hm,
[^_a-zA-Z0-9] should alleviate that :/ |
| 19:41.23 |
``Erik |
unless it's
pushing it through cpp first |
| 19:41.28 |
brlcad |
yeah, I think
it "tries" to determine context and just gets confused by cpp
stuff |
| 19:44.27 |
brlcad |
g'dammit ..
msvc doesn't seem to have fchmod at all.. only _chmod |
| 19:49.19 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: change get_name() to
return a bu_vls instead of a char* |
| 19:53.45 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 19:54.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): |
| 19:54.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
wrong direction bob.. working to remove _all_ instances of _WIN32
not in a core |
| 19:54.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
library. besides, using chmod() is actually has a fundamental race
condition |
| 19:54.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: flaw
that is a security violation; and causes the new flawfinder
regression test |
| 19:54.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: to
fail. hopefully msvc has _fchmod() like the other posix funcs it
supports |
| 19:54.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
prefixed. if not, need to add a libbu compatibility
routine. |
| 19:56.03 |
``Erik |
(of course,
if your'e using win32, race condition security might not be your
biggest priority *cough*) |
| 19:56.57 |
MinuteElectron |
Windows is
awesome. |
| 19:59.20 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: retain 2nd (3rd?
87th?) number if no -c option is given |
| 19:59.45 |
brlcad |
aww, now
that's freaking cool |
| 19:59.47 |
brlcad |
"I used to
live on the 23rd floor of a high-rise in Chicago. Groceries were
never a problem. The 1st floor of the building was a grocery store
and they delivered with purchases of $20 or more (excluding alcohol
and cigarettes). Likewise all the local grocery stores would
deliver to your apartment free of charge with a minimum purchase.
You could phone or fax your grocery order in and pay for it on
delivery (even pay with a check) or you could go |
| 20:00.27 |
MinuteElectron |
It got cut of
at "you could g" |
| 20:00.40 |
dtidrow_work |
yeah |
| 20:00.46 |
brlcad |
or you could
go down and select your items, pay for them, and one of the box
boys would lug the stuff up for you." |
| 20:01.11 |
MinuteElectron |
Cool
indeed. |
| 20:04.51 |
``Erik |
shoot, if it
was that close, just stop by every day on the way home |
| 20:04.56 |
``Erik |
mmmm fresh
veggies every day O.o |
| 20:05.37 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
presuming you ever needed to leave home |
| 20:05.38 |
``Erik |
everyone
still crunching numbers on an xmp, raise your hands. |
| 20:05.39 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 20:06.24 |
``Erik |
what's the
xmp shtuff mucking with? O.o |
| 20:06.28 |
brlcad |
even if
anyone HAS an XMP that will still power up, I'd imagine that it's
probably possible to get an updated posix lib on there that would
remove the need for the hacks |
| 20:06.40 |
``Erik |
just
readability? |
| 20:06.46 |
brlcad |
it's all
throughout |
| 20:06.48 |
``Erik |
(heh...
"just"...) |
| 20:07.21 |
brlcad |
some
readability, a lot of #if chunks, and some code that needs updating
if I'm to get flawfinder below level four |
| 20:07.29 |
brlcad |
so it's
finally become a maintenance burden |
| 20:07.36 |
dtidrow_work |
gee, my
laptop prob. has more performance than a XMP |
| 20:08.17 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
almost guaranteed -- computed it once -- iirc, the Apple "Cube"
that came out about 8 years ago was almost the same
speed |
| 20:08.32 |
brlcad |
er, maybe 6
years |
| 20:08.41 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 20:08.58 |
brlcad |
"cray in a
coffee can" |
| 20:09.04 |
brlcad |
fanless
even |
| 20:09.32 |
dtidrow_work |
did you see
the article about the 'unlocked' Athlon X2 5000+ that recently came
out? |
| 20:10.02 |
``Erik |
didn't the
case crack and become discolored on the cube? |
| 20:10.09 |
dtidrow_work |
yuo can
overclock it to 3.1GHz without tweaking the voltage, or dissapating
much more power |
| 20:11.47 |
brlcad |
``Erik: yeah,
constant heating and cooling would cause microfractures in the
acrylic/plastic for some of them .. barely visible, but not good
for the image when the visual look of those boxes was one of their
best selling points :) |
| 20:12.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: don't assume the
suffix starts with a '.' |
| 20:12.38 |
``Erik |
with jobs
stickuptheass about the industrial design of products, that was a
suprising... feature |
| 20:12.56 |
``Erik |
with a dell
or gateway, people woulda just said "meh, they do that" |
| 20:13.20 |
brlcad |
hmm.. heh
"While your new website seems a little slicker and is probably more
functional it lacks the patriotic feel of the original." ...
"please bring back the eagle" |
| 20:13.34 |
MinuteElectron |
bah |
| 20:13.36 |
brlcad |
the eagle is
intentionally deprecated |
| 20:14.05 |
``Erik |
echo "the new
site sucks, black background is sooooo 1997" | mail -s 'feedback'
brlcad@brlcad.org |
| 20:14.06 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 20:14.08 |
brlcad |
interesting
that it was one of the first comments, though :) |
| 20:14.29 |
MinuteElectron |
Did you ever
get LDAP running? |
| 20:15.25 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: yeah, ldap is running .. i
just need to focus better -- should now just be a matter of hooking
the web apps into it configwise |
| 20:15.37 |
brlcad |
i'm assuming
that was the problem before where drupal was being pissy with
it |
| 20:15.55 |
brlcad |
but now it's
verified working, and I even kinda understand it now .. |
| 20:16.01 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, sounds
good. |
| 20:16.29 |
brlcad |
i just needed
a diversion after hacking on it for half a day and haven't gotten
back on it |
| 20:20.21 |
brlcad |
ah,
interesting, cray was also pseudo-big endian |
| 20:20.39 |
brlcad |
ints were
big, floats were proprietary format |
| 20:21.07 |
``Erik |
ieee754 came
far later than 2's compliment |
| 20:22.12 |
brlcad |
with a
hardware pin on the cray el to toggle between big and
little |
| 20:30.25 |
MinuteElectron |
Whoever
designed the gallery2 skinning system needs shooting. |
| 20:44.41 |
brlcad |
can only go
to user www |
| 20:44.55 |
brlcad |
(chown) |
| 20:45.28 |
brlcad |
if don't want
to type commands over and over via sudo, can sudo -s -u
www |
| 20:46.04 |
MinuteElectron |
Ahh, right.
Thanks. |
| 20:46.13 |
MinuteElectron |
I thought you
didn't watch the logs ;) |
| 20:46.27 |
brlcad |
I don't watch
user logs |
| 20:46.34 |
brlcad |
but I do get
sudo notifications |
| 20:46.46 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh, I must be
annoying then :P |
| 20:46.55 |
brlcad |
ctrl-l is my
friend :) |
| 20:47.05 |
MinuteElectron |
:D |
| 20:47.43 |
brlcad |
I get a lot
more than sudo notifications, not a big deal |
| 20:47.58 |
MinuteElectron |
ahh,
kk |
| 20:48.24 |
brlcad |
just about
any security/access/system-level related event |
| 21:00.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs): |
| 21:00.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: the
old cray cos and unicos code for the cray xmp and friends finally
became a |
| 21:00.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
burden to maintain while resolving various flawfinder issues.
remove the old |
| 21:00.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
code, particularly that which wasn't __STDC__. however,
intentionally leave the |
| 21:00.36 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD: code
for calculating byteoffsets and converting float formats to/from
network |
| 21:00.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
order .. could still come in handy at some point down the
road. |
| 21:02.33 |
MinuteElectron |
Back to Plan
A. |
| 21:07.21 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: how hard is it to swap
right and left menus on the site so that the config matches on the
right/left side correctly? |
| 21:07.29 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (21 files in 8 dirs): removed the non-ansi/stc
compliant noalias.h and noalias-prag.h headers that were used with
the cray (and alliant) to make pragma decls before loops. made
obsolete long ago with the move to ansi compliance. |
| 21:08.14 |
MinuteElectron |
I could do it
with little effort. Give me five minutes or so. |
| 21:08.17 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 21:09.27 |
brlcad |
I'm also
thinking to maybe change the header to not require alpha
transparency .. i (annoyingly) got a few IE6 complaints about it
rendering badly already |
| 21:09.42 |
brlcad |
more
prevalent that I thought still apparently |
| 21:11.58 |
MinuteElectron |
I will look
into pngfix again, I've tried it before, but it didn't
work. |
| 21:12.54 |
MinuteElectron |
Also there
are methods of single color transparency, but I'm sure you know
about them. |
| 21:13.05 |
MinuteElectron |
I can also
try converting images to gif, that might work. |
| 21:13.10 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-pex.c: whoops, here's to reviewing
all commit e-mails even when I make them.. apparently edited out
the wrong line for noalias.h |
| 21:13.34 |
brlcad |
pngfix
requires javascript iirc, no? |
| 21:13.42 |
brlcad |
I think these
are systems that have scripting turned off |
| 21:14.15 |
MinuteElectron |
:( |
| 21:14.24 |
brlcad |
I was
thinking of redoing the header regardless so that the menu can
expand verically too |
| 21:14.27 |
MinuteElectron |
Ok, GIF it
is, I will sort it out after left\right columns |
| 21:14.41 |
brlcad |
(or you can,
have at it) :) |
| 21:15.36 |
brlcad |
I'm thinking
that it might actually look even better to do what's done on the
right side panel with the ovals for the menu, just not beveling the
bottom two corners |
| 21:16.01 |
brlcad |
that would
let it expand horizontally and vertically, and could be more
readily tied into drupal's menu management |
| 21:16.19 |
brlcad |
looks like
atm it's ignoring/not using drupal's built-in menu management, just
having the menu hard-coded |
| 21:16.47 |
brlcad |
maybe
something similar for the bevel for the two search tabs too, so
they expand correctly |
| 21:17.03 |
MinuteElectron |
The problem
with tieing the menu system management in with Drupal is the wiki
anf gallery2. |
| 21:17.14 |
brlcad |
ah, true
dat |
| 21:17.29 |
brlcad |
fair
nuff |
| 21:17.42 |
brlcad |
but still
would be nice if it expanded correctly :) |
| 21:18.09 |
brlcad |
I got
horizontal working, just need veritcle (which means making the
bevel automatic like on the other boxes) |
| 21:19.50 |
MinuteElectron |
The problem
with vertical is the background images. |
| 21:20.39 |
brlcad |
? |
| 21:20.41 |
brlcad |
howso? |
| 21:20.49 |
MinuteElectron |
oh,
wait |
| 21:20.50 |
brlcad |
it's got a
solid background color |
| 21:20.52 |
MinuteElectron |
you got rid
of them lol |
| 21:22.28 |
brlcad |
the way the
bezels are now, it's a one pixel white hilight on left, top-left,
and top edge; and then with a dark gray 1 pixel edge on the bottom,
bottom-right, and right edges |
| 21:22.43 |
brlcad |
that pretty
much translates directly to the trick done for the right panel
bezel |
| 21:23.14 |
MinuteElectron |
oh
cool |
| 21:23.15 |
brlcad |
just that one
is 3 pixels thick and includes bottom-left and top-right
corners |
| 21:23.32 |
brlcad |
completely
image-less |
| 21:23.41 |
brlcad |
just css
tricks |
| 21:24.16 |
MinuteElectron |
Why is it you
want vertical expansion? |
| 21:24.36 |
brlcad |
so it's not
reliant upon expected font sizes |
| 21:24.49 |
MinuteElectron |
ahh,
ok |
| 21:24.51 |
brlcad |
font size
isn't guaranteed with any browser, user can override |
| 21:25.23 |
brlcad |
cmd-shift-+
on a mac in safari or firefox will dynamically adjust the
size |
| 21:26.55 |
MinuteElectron |
hmm |
| 21:27.08 |
brlcad |
example:
http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/fontsize.png |
| 21:27.23 |
MinuteElectron |
yeah |
| 21:27.24 |
brlcad |
everything
resizes correctly example the menu because of that fixed
height |
| 21:34.26 |
MinuteElectron |
ok, this is
weird |
| 21:35.34 |
brlcad |
don't know if
you noticed, but I tweaked a lot of the style settings on the
section headers |
| 21:36.15 |
MinuteElectron |
yes |
| 21:36.58 |
MinuteElectron |
blocks
fixed |
| 21:42.51 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:43.14 |
MinuteElectron |
gifs don't
work well with some of the sliding transparency you
have |
| 21:45.16 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio__
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:49.36 |
brlcad |
yep, I know
.. I was thinking entirely changing that so it basically doesn't
need any transparency |
| 21:50.03 |
MinuteElectron |
aww,
ok |
| 21:50.33 |
poolio__ |
geez. my
internet is out of control...sorry |
| 21:50.58 |
brlcad |
i think it's
pretty cool, but not worth it if it's going to look like total ass
on a major subset of visitors |
| 21:51.35 |
brlcad |
alternatively, could leave it like it is,
and just have a separate fixed header with no truck for the lame
browsers |
| 21:52.04 |
MinuteElectron |
It would be
possible to use IE if statements to do so. |
| 22:19.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-82-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:03.03 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:03.05 |
Maloeran |
This is
unexpected. This chunk of code performs 18 times faster with -O2
-mtune=nocona in comparison to binaries produced without
optimisation |
| 23:03.18 |
Maloeran |
I had never
seen such a gap before, I didn't even think it possible |
| 00:04.07 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu) |
| 00:11.28 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-27
(i=cia@208.69.182.149) |
| 00:42.34 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03mm_202 * r293 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h
src/irClientEvents.cpp): Some minor typo fixes. |
| 01:52.04 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:18.50 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio__
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:20.01 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio___
(n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 06:55.38 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03mm_202 * r294 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientEvents.cpp: Fixed two
bugs with eIRCChannelUserModeSet. |
| 06:58.06 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03mm_202 * r295 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: Found a bug
in removeChannelFromUser(), but didnt fix it. JeffM: your favorite,
erase(). |
| 07:11.49 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03mm_202 * r296 10/trunk/libirc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fixed a
stupid spelling mistake, Permisions -> Permissions. |
| 07:18.25 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487740E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:13.57 |
brlcad |
minute-ssh:
made a slew of changes to the header, trying out various different
styles/approaches |
| 08:14.58 |
brlcad |
minute-ssh:
the menu expands nicely now and I think it looks a little better,
but I had a problems getting the bezel to wok on windows for some
reason |
| 08:15.09 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-084-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:15.31 |
brlcad |
changed the
images too -- now using gifs for the background images with the
colors corrected to the color_palette images |
| 08:17.08 |
brlcad |
didn't change
the title, byline, or axis yet to make a precomposited image for
broken browsers |
| 08:17.51 |
brlcad |
and still
have to fix the search tabs so that they expand correctly now too
.. those should be the last items that need to be tweaked to allow
resizing |
| 08:19.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:17.36 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 09:33.18 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: I
already changed the x,y,z axis to gif :) |
| 09:38.24 |
MinuteElectron |
And you must
have a lot more patience than I do. |
| 09:39.07 |
MinuteElectron |
The new
design is definitely an improvement. |
| 10:47.33 |
*** join/#brlcad butti
(n=butti@e178072209.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:10.03 |
*** join/#brlcad Apathy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 12:13.06 |
*** join/#brlcad ChanServ
(ChanServ@services.) |
| 12:13.06 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by
irc.freenode.net |
| 13:50.57 |
Maloeran |
This is so
absurd. The federal, provincial and municipal governments are
preparing a proposal to move the United Nations to...
Montreal! |
| 13:51.06 |
Maloeran |
The odds of
success are so astronomically low |
| 13:53.58 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: I don't think it's so much
patience as it is my obsessive-compulsive tendancies .. there are
still several things on the layout that will grate me until they're
fixed :-) |
| 13:54.48 |
MinuteElectron |
ahh,
allright |
| 14:27.42 |
``Erik |
heh, "come to
montreal! we don't have any building worth flying in
to!" |
| 14:27.43 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 14:28.27 |
``Erik |
and every
translated statement will require yet another translation to french
*cough* |
| 14:28.30 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 14:33.14 |
Maloeran |
Eh, exactly.
And who's dreaming that the United States would let the UN go away?
It seems our governments have money to throw away on futile and
delusionary projects |
| 14:34.35 |
Maloeran |
Canada also
wanted to host the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor
despites providing a tiny fraction of the funding, and walked out
when France won the hosting bid |
| 14:35.57 |
``Erik |
damn uppity
canucks and their insane nationalism |
| 14:35.58 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 14:37.39 |
Maloeran |
Yup!
:) |
| 14:56.05 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 16:24.44 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 16:55.45 |
butti |
hello |
| 16:56.38 |
butti |
``Erik: are
you an american? |
| 17:04.42 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:05.08 |
yukonbob |
hello,
whirled. |
| 17:35.45 |
``Erik |
Dr. Calvin
Rickson, a scientist from Ohio State University has invented a bra
that keeps women's breasts from jiggling and prevents the nipples
from pushing through the fabric when cold weather sets in.
|
| 17:35.46 |
``Erik |
At a news
conference, after announcing the invention, a large group of men
took Dr. Rickson outside and kicked the s#$% out of
him. |
| 17:35.48 |
``Erik |
butti:
yes |
| 17:36.27 |
MinuteElectron |
lawl |
| 17:36.31 |
``Erik |
but not one
of the vocal idiot minority that most non-americans assume
represent all americans, sorry |
| 17:37.19 |
butti |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.22 |
``Erik |
I don't have
american flags on my house or car, I don't say "buy american, just
because", I don't wear baseball hats (or watch sports), I don't
drink piss like 'miller' or 'bud', I don't believe that if you
don't speak english, you should get out, ... |
| 17:37.45 |
butti |
lovely |
| 17:37.50 |
``Erik |
<-- lived
in japan for 3 years, lived on the canuck border most of his life,
drives a german car, ... :) |
| 17:38.17 |
``Erik |
and I am
extremely displeased with the current administration |
| 17:38.59 |
butti |
Im always
worry about americans..so hard to live with them |
| 17:39.19 |
``Erik |
you live with
people from the US? |
| 17:39.32 |
butti |
no, I mean
all the nation |
| 17:39.36 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 17:39.46 |
``Erik |
<-- points
out that texans are NOT americans, they're texans. |
| 17:39.48 |
``Erik |
damnit. |
| 17:39.52 |
butti |
hehe |
| 17:40.03 |
``Erik |
that'd be
like quebec being in control of canada |
| 17:40.20 |
``Erik |
or jutland
being in control of germany |
| 17:40.25 |
butti |
3 times i hat
american lovers..they was all left-liberal |
| 17:40.36 |
``Erik |
or ireland
being in control of UK |
| 17:40.54 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 17:41.05 |
butti |
hehe |
| 17:41.09 |
``Erik |
(and the one
of my analogies that doesn't fit is probably the germany/jutland
one) |
| 17:42.17 |
butti |
but this
means, the left-liberal are not bindingly |
| 17:42.34 |
butti |
i dont know
nothing about jutland |
| 17:44.14 |
butti |
I mean, thats
why such a persol like Sarkozy, who divorse with her wife is so
spectacular. he is right front as rapublicans do |
| 17:44.44 |
butti |
you know what
i mean |
| 17:45.47 |
butti |
where are you
living right now ``Erik ? |
| 17:47.57 |
``Erik |
I live just
north of baltimore, ont he east coast... but I mostly grew up north
of seattle |
| 17:48.54 |
butti |
ok seatle
must be cool, that what ive hear about this city |
| 17:49.02 |
``Erik |
*nod* I miss
it |
| 17:51.10 |
butti |
but you have
alway sun in baltimore, here becomes quit dizzy ...brrr, cold and
gray |
| 17:51.17 |
butti |
grey |
| 17:54.11 |
butti |
now we have a
new goverment in Poland, I think the soldiers will come backs from
Irak now, I hope so |
| 17:56.18 |
``Erik |
<--
prefers cold and grey |
| 17:56.36 |
butti |
the old
kaczynsky Klones wanted to stay in irak becouse: "we should do this
shit till the end, becouse we promised that" |
| 18:00.00 |
butti |
no, I
defintly prefer sun, which I didnt see this year (seating on front
of display) |
| 18:03.50 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 18:03.52 |
``Erik |
what is "the
end"? |
| 18:04.43 |
``Erik |
I understand
war as an activity between people, and one submits... terrorism is
an idea/tactic... there can never be a 'victory' because an idea
cannot capitulate |
| 18:04.48 |
MinuteElectron |
cold + bright
FTW |
| 18:05.05 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 18:06.23 |
``Erik |
so, uh... tag
and kick out? |
| 18:08.25 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 18:09.14 |
``Erik |
are you going
to do it? I don't have a -STABLE checkout right now, and I dunno if
I want to play with rtag right now, I'm feelin' a little too...
calm :) |
| 18:10.04 |
butti |
``Erik:
exactly |
| 18:10.24 |
butti |
hi brlcad
:) |
| 18:16.33 |
brlcad |
howdy
butti |
| 18:16.46 |
brlcad |
``Erik: I'll
tag it |
| 18:24.45 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-084-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:31.01 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:05.57 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
MFC |
| 20:11.38 |
brlcad |
jeez |
| 20:11.49 |
dtidrow_work |
? |
| 20:12.03 |
``Erik |
sorry, but
it's a slew of stuff that big D has been begging for |
| 20:12.08 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 20:12.13 |
brlcad |
now if that
don't compile cleanly.. i'm gonna just point |
| 20:12.22 |
``Erik |
oh, it'll
compile cleanly... I hope |
| 20:12.27 |
brlcad |
mmhmm |
| 20:12.39 |
brlcad |
you get to do
the irix build |
| 20:12.40 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 20:12.40 |
``Erik |
if it breaks
it, I'll do the distcheck and upload |
| 20:12.43 |
``Erik |
!#~@!~ |
| 20:12.48 |
dtidrow_work |
famous last
words... |
| 20:13.10 |
brlcad |
so should I
announce the new command, or wait a release? |
| 20:13.14 |
``Erik |
um |
| 20:13.21 |
brlcad |
it's not yet
in the notes |
| 20:13.29 |
``Erik |
it's missing
mirroring and picking the rotation point |
| 20:13.30 |
brlcad |
i was going
to wait |
| 20:13.38 |
brlcad |
okay, sounds
like a waiter then |
| 20:13.46 |
``Erik |
and dwayne
has requested reworking so it respects instancing |
| 20:14.02 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
in the process (literally minutes away from tagging) and he's
committing "MFC" :) |
| 20:14.05 |
``Erik |
I told him
that'd be considerably more effort than the other little things, so
he's cool with letting it slide |
| 20:14.22 |
``Erik |
(thus the
innocent whistle) |
| 20:14.53 |
brlcad |
hey i don't
mind, just hope it compiles cleanly |
| 20:14.55 |
``Erik |
but this hits
more than 50% of the clone "problems" in that email |
| 20:15.20 |
``Erik |
I'd hope it'd
be more apt to compile cleanly than before, I moved from system
commands to libbu commands for the most part |
| 20:16.50 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r297 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: vectors
return an iterator on erase |
| 20:18.25 |
``Erik |
so are we
going to push for a halloween release, too? |
| 20:35.48 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: added release notes and updated
version for 7.10.4, beginning of final release
preparations |
| 20:36.17 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/include/conf/PATCH: update to final
7.10.4 version |
| 20:39.13 |
``Erik |
I
d'no |
| 20:39.17 |
``Erik |
should I try
compiling it before I commit? |
| 20:40.01 |
poolio__ |
oo
release?\ |
| 20:40.09 |
brlcad |
that's why
there's actually two distcheck tests :P |
| 20:40.31 |
minute |
You get to
use the news thing on the new website. ;) |
| 20:41.15 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: back out the
bu_vls_strcmp() macro as STABLE bu.h trails... a lot... |
| 20:41.52 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: massive changelog update
from 2007-05-16 to today, preparing for the big 7.10.4
release |
| 20:42.19 |
*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid
Modeling || http://brlcad.org ||
http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet,
more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now |
| 20:42.29 |
poolio__ |
Cheers
:) |
| 20:43.07 |
brlcad |
poolio__:
beset is actually listed in this release, but haven't made the
bigger announcement yet -- waiting till 7.12 |
| 20:44.07 |
``Erik |
what are the
triggers for 7.12.0? endgame, archer and bombadier? |
| 20:44.53 |
brlcad |
the triggers
are usually either a major new feature in itself, or the
accummulation of major features since the previous minor
rev |
| 20:45.24 |
brlcad |
endgame
wouldn't likely be a trigger |
| 20:45.39 |
``Erik |
I meant those
as a boolean expression |
| 20:45.56 |
brlcad |
maybe
bombardier if it has automatic crash reporting with a gui and
several apps with signal handlers |
| 20:45.58 |
``Erik |
and when ya
get close to it, usually ya pick the actual things to trip it...
:D |
| 20:46.02 |
poolio__ |
brlcad: errr
why is beset even listed? |
| 20:46.32 |
brlcad |
because it's
in the release |
| 20:46.33 |
``Erik |
to embarrass
you, ben :D |
| 20:46.42 |
brlcad |
it will
compile and be installed |
| 20:46.44 |
poolio__ |
what the
christ. |
| 20:46.49 |
brlcad |
and be on
thousands of people's machines |
| 20:46.53 |
``Erik |
it's
important for porters |
| 20:46.58 |
brlcad |
whether they
know it or use it is another matter.. ;) |
| 20:47.04 |
``Erik |
some of us
need to manage lists of installed files |
| 20:47.34 |
brlcad |
poolio__:
it's effectively zero-maintenance, and might even inspire someone
else to pick up where you left off |
| 20:47.57 |
poolio__ |
Alrighty.
Just seems like it won't be too useful to anyone, except maybe some
code examples. |
| 20:48.11 |
brlcad |
that's why
it's not "announced" .. just in the feature list |
| 20:48.12 |
poolio__ |
I guess I
should be saying thanks and stop whining :) |
| 20:48.28 |
brlcad |
any
"user-visible" change is supposed to be listed in the NEWS file
with a 1-liner |
| 20:48.51 |
brlcad |
that
certainly qualifies as 'user visible' given it will compile and be
installed |
| 20:49.52 |
poolio__ |
How often do
you guys do releases? Wasn't it supposed to be monthly? |
| 20:50.09 |
``Erik |
it was, but
politics intervened. |
| 20:50.17 |
brlcad |
yeah,
supposed to be .. but this is a "major integration"
release |
| 20:50.23 |
poolio__ |
ah |
| 20:50.24 |
brlcad |
coordinated
with the main analyses user |
| 20:50.30 |
brlcad |
s/user/code/ |
| 20:50.32 |
``Erik |
<-- is
hoping for 7.10.6 on halloween |
| 20:50.48 |
poolio__ |
heh, that's
only like a week away |
| 20:51.00 |
``Erik |
yes, but
stable went cold quite a while ago |
| 20:51.05 |
``Erik |
and head kept
marching along |
| 20:51.10 |
brlcad |
head is
already 7.11 |
| 20:51.17 |
``Erik |
ah |
| 20:51.31 |
``Erik |
after 7.10.4
is tagged, I expect to see a huge MFC |
| 20:51.40 |
brlcad |
this release
should really probably be 7.12, it's not in the spirit of patches..
there were significant features |
| 20:51.52 |
brlcad |
especially
since 7.10 |
| 20:51.57 |
brlcad |
(.0) |
| 20:52.26 |
``Erik |
(MFC is
"merge from current" for the non-bsd geeks) |
| 20:53.13 |
brlcad |
~mfc |
| 20:53.14 |
ibot |
Microsoft
Foundation Classes, or crap |
| 20:53.30 |
brlcad |
~mfc is also
Merge From Current |
| 20:53.31 |
ibot |
brlcad:
okay |
| 20:53.41 |
brlcad |
~mfc is also
a Major Fscking Change |
| 20:53.41 |
ibot |
brlcad:
okay |
| 20:54.02 |
``Erik |
~mfc |
| 20:54.02 |
ibot |
Microsoft
Foundation Classes, or crap. Merge From Current, or a Major
Fscking Change |
| 20:54.41 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@toroon63-1177845977.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:54.45 |
``Erik |
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/freebsd-glossary.html#MFC-GLOSSARY |
| 20:54.47 |
poolio__ |
speak of the
devil...haha |
| 20:55.04 |
poolio__ |
well congrats
on almost getting the release, I must do work then an ECE lab
:\ |
| 20:55.07 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: are
you the devil? |
| 20:55.24 |
dtidrow_work |
ah, that's
what MFC is... |
| 20:55.42 |
yukonbob |
I might be,
but I can't read what's not in my log -- what did I just miss
;) |
| 20:55.52 |
``Erik |
(sorry, been
a fbsd dork since '98 or '99) |
| 20:56.00 |
dtidrow_work |
Microsoft
Foundation Classes was the only one I could come up with, and I
knew that was wrong... |
| 20:56.18 |
dtidrow_work |
Major Fscking
Change is best ;-) |
| 20:56.29 |
``Erik |
fscking
a |
| 20:57.36 |
``Erik |
main fuel
control? mine field clearance? minimum fault coverage?
mutli-frequency code? multiple flight computer? :D http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MFC |
| 20:57.50 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 20:58.40 |
brlcad |
arg... a slew
of itcl init errors during make distcheck that I hadn't
noticed |
| 20:59.13 |
brlcad |
will have to
test mged and company to make sure they actually init properly on
install |
| 21:00.14 |
brlcad |
i had them
fixed at one point |
| 21:00.25 |
brlcad |
it should
work prior to install now |
| 21:00.32 |
yukonbob |
is this for
the pending x.x.4? |
| 21:00.37 |
brlcad |
probably
something with the out-of-dir dist build |
| 21:01.01 |
brlcad |
I think the
auto_path logic that was added assumes being able to locate the src
dir |
| 21:02.57 |
brlcad |
./configure
--enable-all --disable-opengl --enable-optimized
--prefix=/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 |
| 21:06.05 |
``Erik |
can you scp
that to the failing file server in /r/tmp/ ? |
| 21:06.13 |
``Erik |
or tell me
where on that dang sgi it is? |
| 21:07.53 |
brlcad |
it was in my
home in brlcad.STABLE, but coping now |
| 21:08.33 |
brlcad |
man it must
already be choking .. getting about 100kb/s write rate |
| 21:10.13 |
``Erik |
um, that, uh,
other program is running |
| 21:10.18 |
``Erik |
stresstesting
the disks, heh :D |
| 21:10.52 |
brlcad |
my other scp
is never gonna finish before it explodes |
| 21:10.56 |
brlcad |
done
copying |
| 21:11.11 |
``Erik |
it should,
I'm only like 3.5 gigs in |
| 21:11.43 |
``Erik |
chmod
pls? |
| 21:13.08 |
``Erik |
okie, rewt it
is |
| 21:13.23 |
brlcad |
done |
| 21:13.36 |
``Erik |
heh, I'd
already chmod'd it as root :) |
| 21:18.33 |
brlcad |
tagging |
| 21:19.05 |
``Erik |
yay,
configure: error: `CPPFLAGS' has changed since the previous
run: |
| 21:28.10 |
starseeker |
Is the
tarball hiding anywhere? |
| 21:28.34 |
``Erik |
yeah, that'd
probably be the easiest :) -rSTABLE |
| 21:46.21 |
starseeker |
<announcer-voice>Annnnnnnd here we
go :-)</announcer-voice> |
| 22:03.40 |
yukonbob |
so, is 7.10.4
tagged and bagged? |
| 22:05.31 |
brlcad |
howdy
starseeker |
| 22:05.56 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
howdy :-) |
| 22:06.00 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yeah, it's tagged, rel-7-10-4 |
| 22:06.18 |
yukonbob |
nice -- /me
will grab as -current, and try with his build system... |
| 22:11.48 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 22:12.08 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: btw,
what's the devil ref. above? |
| 22:13.52 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: Do
you use FreeBSD? |
| 22:14.31 |
yukonbob |
it's not my
primary, but yes... |
| 22:17.25 |
yukonbob |
?Is a
reference to the Beastie? |
| 22:17.30 |
yukonbob |
(chuck)? |
| 22:18.11 |
yukonbob |
anyway --
will find out later -- I'm at end of battery, and need to head
home... will report 7.10.4 results later... ciao all.. |
| 22:18.31 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: i'm
frankly not sure .. just funny timing with poolio's
comment |
| 22:18.42 |
yukonbob |
what was
poolios comment... |
| 22:18.57 |
brlcad |
"speak of the
devil...haha" .. after you joined :) |
| 22:19.08 |
yukonbob |
this is
probably so drawn out the funny is all evaporated... |
| 22:19.29 |
brlcad |
i'm not sure
it was ever funny to anyone but me at the moment it was written
;) |
| 22:26.09 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-82-12.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:31.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Darkwell
(i=gcqA3aao@c2.a108.sto.bahnhof.net) |
| 22:32.47 |
Darkwell |
hello |
| 22:32.51 |
Darkwell |
what license
does brlcad have ? |
| 22:33.09 |
brlcad |
predominantly
LGPL |
| 22:33.15 |
Darkwell |
I
see |
| 22:33.19 |
brlcad |
BSD on the
build system and a few of the tools |
| 22:33.28 |
brlcad |
but
otherwise, pretty much LGPL |
| 22:33.41 |
brlcad |
details in
the COPYING file in the source distribution |
| 22:34.20 |
Darkwell |
and for a
noob like me , I wonder does brlcad suit to create materials to
use for cnc production ? |
| 22:34.46 |
brlcad |
hm, for
creating the basic geometry, sure |
| 22:34.54 |
brlcad |
but for
creating the CNC code, no not really |
| 22:35.02 |
brlcad |
for that,
maybe something like gcam |
| 22:35.25 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:36.06 |
Darkwell |
but arent
there tools I can use to convert to gcodes etc |
| 22:36.21 |
brlcad |
brl-cad is a
solid modeling system, so the models can generally work very well
for machining when modeled correctly, but there's presently not a
g-code exporter or drivers for any particular cnc device, just
simple stl and dxf exporters (among other formats) |
| 22:36.45 |
brlcad |
sure, there
are some .. can't vouch for their quality .. and they'renot a part
of brl-cad |
| 22:36.46 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:36.56 |
Darkwell |
I am not
familiar with those stuff yet |
| 22:37.19 |
Darkwell |
I am planning
to famliliarize with programs and tools for future
educations |
| 22:37.35 |
Darkwell |
I don't want
to waste ,my time in trying to figure how programs work |
| 22:39.05 |
brlcad |
there is a
diagram on the website that sort of shows the CAD markets that
brl-cad is currently best-suited towards |
| 22:39.22 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 22:39.27 |
starseeker |
aha - OK
portage, what were you complaining about... |
| 22:39.30 |
Darkwell |
ok thank
you |
| 22:40.06 |
brlcad |
Darkwell: as
the diagram (hopefully) shows you, we are heavy into the CAE
aspects of CAD, and only partially overlap into CADD and MCAD
domains |
| 22:40.25 |
brlcad |
that overlaps
basically amounts to our general solid modeling and data
representation support as well as rendering and
visualization |
| 22:40.54 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:41.02 |
Darkwell |
that isnt bad
at all |
| 22:41.15 |
brlcad |
validation of
models, CSG support, supporting analysis and
development |
| 22:41.31 |
Darkwell |
if I get this
right , it means I can draw objects in brlcad to see what tthey
would look like |
| 22:41.45 |
brlcad |
but not
really much support for direct ties into manufacturing and design
processes, especially concept work |
| 22:41.55 |
brlcad |
yeah,
sure |
| 22:41.58 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:42.11 |
starseeker |
showshot.c:98: warning: incompatible
implicit declaration of built-in function strcpy |
| 22:42.29 |
starseeker |
showshot.c:122: warning: incompatible
implicit declaration of built-in function strlen |
| 22:42.34 |
brlcad |
but not
easily using a 2D drafting, ala AutoCAD (it encompases the CADD
domain) .. you'd be using 3D methods |
| 22:42.48 |
starseeker |
coswin.c:104:
warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function
malloc |
| 22:42.57 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
just missing #include <string.h> |
| 22:43.05 |
starseeker |
Ah,
OK |
| 22:43.28 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:43.37 |
Darkwell |
so its
3d |
| 22:43.44 |
brlcad |
oh
yeah |
| 22:43.47 |
brlcad |
3d solid
modeling |
| 22:44.21 |
brlcad |
akin to the
catia, unigraphics, pro/e markets, but with much much MUCH smaller
development budget ;) |
| 22:44.51 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:45.07 |
brlcad |
here's a
screenshot: http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 22:45.45 |
Darkwell |
looks like
some kind of raytracer |
| 22:45.53 |
brlcad |
basic (big)
tutorial on learning the modeler: http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 22:46.17 |
brlcad |
examples of
some brl-cad models generated: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 22:47.14 |
Darkwell |
hmm |
| 22:47.36 |
Darkwell |
interesting |
| 22:48.07 |
Darkwell |
I think
understand what you mean now |
| 22:48.12 |
brlcad |
brl-cad has
one of the very first ray-tracers ever written |
| 22:48.23 |
brlcad |
the package
is more than 20 years under active development |
| 22:48.42 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
oldskool! |
| 22:48.43 |
Darkwell |
so its not
really used for design and bluepringint of stuff I want to produce
? |
| 22:49.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Darkwell: do
you work in an architecture bureau? |
| 22:49.15 |
Darkwell |
wrote a
raytracer once in amige 500 :) |
| 22:49.19 |
brlcad |
we went open
source about 2.5 years ago, so we're just getting ramped up as OSS
to make it more usable |
| 22:49.34 |
Darkwell |
ok |
| 22:49.55 |
brlcad |
Darkwell:
brl-cad's was the *first* distributed/parallel raytracer (back in
'83 iirc) |
| 22:50.21 |
Darkwell |
Z80-Boy: no
I am not, still I need cad cam stuff to be able to design objects
that I am going to build |
| 22:50.35 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: did
it run on Cray? |
| 22:50.41 |
brlcad |
Darkwell: and
to answer your question, no -- not strongly suited to design and
blueprints, though that is an area actively being worked on to
support |
| 22:50.41 |
Darkwell |
and I am soon
going to get an education learning to handla cnc machines welding
etc |
| 22:50.59 |
Darkwell |
then I want
to master the computer tools already |
| 22:51.03 |
brlcad |
there is some
support for it via hidden line renderings, but sans dimensioning:
e.g. http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 22:51.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Darkwell: do
you do it commercially or hobby? |
| 22:51.38 |
Darkwell |
both |
| 22:52.14 |
Darkwell |
as of now I
am just a handyman |
| 22:52.15 |
Darkwell |
ll |
| 22:52.17 |
Darkwell |
lol |
| 22:52.37 |
Darkwell |
well I think
brlcad looks nice |
| 22:53.35 |
Darkwell |
let me check
what the proper english name for the job is |
| 22:56.51 |
Z80-Boy |
How do I make
rtxray produce white background instead of black? |
| 22:56.57 |
Z80-Boy |
An xray
doesn't look like this |
| 22:59.22 |
brlcad |
-W |
| 23:00.26 |
Z80-Boy |
It's not
written in the output of rtxray without parameters |
| 23:01.18 |
Z80-Boy |
And it
doesn't work |
| 23:01.22 |
Z80-Boy |
As if it
weren't there |
| 23:07.08 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: -w
also doesn't work |
| 23:07.14 |
Z80-Boy |
refuses to
start |
| 23:07.44 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Giving
negative -A also doesn't help |
| 23:08.27 |
Z80-Boy |
just produces
white |
| 23:08.50 |
Z80-Boy |
but otherwise
it looks cool |
| 23:09.07 |
Z80-Boy |
going to
sleep night |
| 23:14.53 |
``Erik |
wow, a new
shock site, and this one is... brutal |
| 23:15.48 |
Darkwell |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_and_die_maker
<---- think I was right about the english name
anyways |
| 23:38.38 |
Darkwell |
hmm gcam
wasnt treally useful |
| 23:38.55 |
Darkwell |
several bugs
in the windows build |
| 23:40.08 |
louipc |
report
them! |
| 23:41.37 |
``Erik |
yeah, how can
twingy fix them if he doesn't have people telling him where the
problems are? last I heard, he was mostly fbsd |
| 00:06.22 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 00:06.53 |
louipc |
wuzzat? |
| 00:07.05 |
starseeker |
Freebie game
using the Tribes2 engine |
| 00:07.11 |
louipc |
ah |
| 00:07.36 |
louipc |
sometimes
it's necessary |
| 00:07.41 |
louipc |
but not
really for games :P |
| 00:07.46 |
starseeker |
I should just
play bzflag ;-) |
| 00:07.53 |
louipc |
haha |
| 00:08.02 |
louipc |
it's fun for
awhile |
| 00:08.14 |
louipc |
maybe just
because I'm not a big gamer |
| 00:08.23 |
starseeker |
Yeah, that's
pretty much my take on it |
| 00:08.45 |
starseeker |
I didn't do
enough video games at a young age to acquire the shooting
precision |
| 00:08.47 |
louipc |
I like to
play the games to see if I can fix bugs hehe |
| 00:08.59 |
louipc |
open source
stuff |
| 00:10.08 |
starseeker |
Tribes I was
IMHO the high water mark of that type of game - Tribes2 just
doesn't have the same feel |
| 00:11.07 |
starseeker |
Reaper3d
actually had a very nice looking engine, but it's been dead for
years now |
| 00:11.42 |
louipc |
I find the
problem with a lot of games is that they hog cpu |
| 00:11.47 |
louipc |
even for dumb
2d games |
| 00:12.12 |
starseeker |
Indeed |
| 00:12.34 |
starseeker |
the old
school guys from 30 years ago would be aghast at the use of
hardware today... |
| 00:13.13 |
louipc |
yeah |
| 00:13.57 |
starseeker |
I think if
hardware ever does reach some kind of stable performance we will
see some major upheaval in programming styles... |
| 00:15.55 |
louipc |
well we need
better innovation in hardware architectures and such |
| 00:16.02 |
louipc |
no more x86
:P |
| 00:55.58 |
brlcad |
trainman419:
erhm, yeah .. not really any ray-tracer uses opengl accelleration;
opengl is general raster image processor, ray-tracing is not a
raster rendering |
| 00:56.36 |
brlcad |
the final
rendered image can be displayed into an opengl context, but you're
still just displaying an image and don't necessarily need opengl
for that |
| 00:57.06 |
brlcad |
the modeler
(mged) could leverage opengl a lot, but mged doesn't require opengl
for what it does either |
| 00:57.15 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 00:57.19 |
trainman419 |
ah, it all
makes sense now |
| 00:57.40 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 00:57.51 |
``Erik |
raytracing
can use ogl to rasterize... it'd just be, y'know, ass
slow |
| 00:58.52 |
``Erik |
BAH, wench
got drunk at a wedding and now wants to drive :( stupid
whore |
| 00:59.31 |
``Erik |
:( |
| 01:00.15 |
trainman419 |
yeah, I'm
just used to things like solidworks that show rasteriezed images
rather than raytraced images |
| 01:00.44 |
``Erik |
BRL-CAD
doesn't have a "quick view" functionality, sorry |
| 01:00.46 |
Maloeran |
Mmhm. You
didn't go with her, Erik, despites the free alcohol? :) |
| 01:00.48 |
brlcad |
they have
ray-trace functions too, just not their main graphics
display |
| 01:00.58 |
brlcad |
at least
solidworks does |
| 01:00.59 |
``Erik |
dislacement
issue, mal |
| 01:01.28 |
``Erik |
he father is
ill and in kc, so that's where she is :/ |
| 01:01.38 |
Maloeran |
Oh.. |
| 01:01.59 |
``Erik |
kansas city,
missouri |
| 01:02.08 |
brlcad |
trainman419:
our next modeling interface will intently utilize opengl through
and through for the modeling interface |
| 01:02.56 |
brlcad |
tarzeau:
where does the build fail for you with CFLAGS="-O2"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" ... that seems to be working for me (on
RHEL4) |
| 01:03.00 |
trainman419 |
awesome! will
that be in mged or archer? (or something new?) |
| 01:03.14 |
``Erik |
the pasted
message was a compiler warning, not an error |
| 01:04.36 |
brlcad |
trainman419:
neither, new interface |
| 01:05.43 |
brlcad |
he's been
working on that for years |
| 01:05.46 |
brlcad |
little by
little |
| 01:05.57 |
``Erik |
yeah, but now
he has bucks behind him |
| 01:06.00 |
brlcad |
too draining
to only do that, even for him |
| 01:06.07 |
brlcad |
i mean even
before |
| 01:06.14 |
brlcad |
he started
that before you arrived |
| 01:06.18 |
brlcad |
heck, before
I started |
| 01:06.19 |
``Erik |
*nod* |
| 01:06.26 |
``Erik |
it's the
right thing to do |
| 01:06.28 |
``Erik |
just not
sexy |
| 01:06.34 |
brlcad |
it is, just
tons of grunt |
| 01:07.01 |
``Erik |
if he can
commit 10% time to it, it's a major win |
| 01:07.09 |
brlcad |
Bob's not the
greatest at refactoring sometimes, a lot of very short term fixes
without the refactoring |
| 01:07.21 |
brlcad |
often
detrimental to what he has to deal with down the road |
| 01:07.27 |
brlcad |
or what
others have to do to maintain it.. |
| 01:07.37 |
brlcad |
the code gets
there though |
| 01:07.37 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:07.56 |
``Erik |
I'd hope that
if he puts effort there, it'd spin off work |
| 01:08.48 |
``Erik |
for laid
code, ... windows or tcl :/ |
| 01:09.00 |
brlcad |
yeah, just
having a few more working on development will make a big
change |
| 01:09.13 |
brlcad |
maybe even
start to look like what things were like before M3 |
| 01:09.23 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:09.24 |
starseeker |
M3? |
| 01:09.27 |
``Erik |
:( |
| 01:09.28 |
brlcad |
still need
two more though at minimally |
| 01:09.39 |
brlcad |
*minimally* |
| 01:09.42 |
``Erik |
the project
that killed the momentum of BRL-CAD, star |
| 01:09.48 |
starseeker |
ouch |
| 01:10.45 |
``Erik |
the core idea
was actually good, but pointy hairs got a hold of it... then gutted
"the cad team", then proceeded to chase most of 'em away with
micromanagement |
| 01:10.57 |
brlcad |
rather..
stole motivation, funding, attention, developers, ... |
| 01:11.32 |
brlcad |
alas, those
are more and more turning into just history with the surge of new
interest |
| 01:11.57 |
brlcad |
just took a
few years for the turnaround |
| 01:11.58 |
starseeker |
alas? Are
good ideas being lost? |
| 01:12.03 |
brlcad |
everything
happens in waves |
| 01:12.26 |
``Erik |
good ideas
were had and given... interpretation... ... heh... |
| 01:12.39 |
brlcad |
"alas",
hopefully the brunt of the bad days are behind us now |
| 01:13.12 |
brlcad |
for our group
at least, it's changing |
| 01:13.22 |
``Erik |
yeah.... I'm
bitter |
| 01:13.23 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 01:13.44 |
``Erik |
the best
aspect I see is that the GPL/LGPL/BSD push worked |
| 01:14.00 |
``Erik |
<-- likes
to pretend he had a serious roll in that *shrgu* |
| 01:14.10 |
starseeker |
That's
virtually miraculous - I still remember the shock when I saw the
announcement |
| 01:14.12 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
diverted attention helped that in a (very) minor regard |
| 01:14.39 |
``Erik |
(the part I
meant was the automake vs cake side) |
| 01:15.12 |
brlcad |
yeah, thank
jeebus we don't still have to deal with cake hell |
| 01:15.18 |
``Erik |
ehehhehe |
| 01:15.28 |
``Erik |
I was
dumbstruck on seeing tht |
| 01:15.32 |
brlcad |
for all of
the autohell, it wasn't as bad as cakehell |
| 01:15.41 |
brlcad |
s/wasn't/isn't/ |
| 01:15.53 |
``Erik |
and that lee
said "it's broken? ok, go fix it"... |
| 01:15.58 |
``Erik |
that was a
good state |
| 01:16.06 |
starseeker |
Some of the
national labs have open source stuff (Paraview is an example) but I
don't recall anything similar coming from the Army side except
GRASS |
| 01:16.48 |
``Erik |
hum,
cool |
| 01:17.03 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
technically grass was just "given away" when it was done, public
domained because it was a done/dead project |
| 01:17.06 |
``Erik |
I stepped in
and was working on the fbsd port and autotools before I even got an
account |
| 01:17.18 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Oh,
OK. |
| 01:17.35 |
brlcad |
only because
the community stepped up and a few took ownership (and claimed a
copyright after significant changes) did it become open
source |
| 01:17.40 |
``Erik |
perhaps just
"a place to put" the new guy O:-) |
| 01:17.52 |
starseeker |
I pointed it
out to my dad a few times - I don't know if anyone in his group
ever took a poke at it or not |
| 01:18.43 |
starseeker |
It
looked/looks impressive, for it's problem domain (not that I'm an
expert in that field) |
| 01:19.14 |
``Erik |
starseeker:
do you use ttcp? ping? tcp/ip? mr muuss was a heavy hitter in those
in the name of the army... |
| 01:19.42 |
brlcad |
as far as I
discovered during the legal research, BRL-CAD was the first
*active* project in U.S. Army that I could find that went straight
to open source licensing |
| 01:19.57 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Yes,
I'd read about that. I regret arriving too late on the scene to
ever get a chance to meet Mike Muss |
| 01:20.06 |
``Erik |
me too
:( |
| 01:20.27 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
can believe it. It's a very impressive accomplishment |
| 01:20.28 |
brlcad |
maybe even
first in DoD, but that's not likely .. just nothing really
popular/notorious or at least that I was able to find after a lot
of searching and contact prodding |
| 01:20.49 |
``Erik |
first as in
conception date or ? |
| 01:21.14 |
brlcad |
first to
release code legally as OSS |
| 01:21.38 |
brlcad |
non
public-domain |
| 01:21.55 |
``Erik |
heh,t hat's
artificial, dude |
| 01:21.56 |
brlcad |
there are
plenty of public domain examples that have been picked
up |
| 01:22.01 |
``Erik |
pd is oss
friendly |
| 01:22.55 |
``Erik |
also; |
| 01:22.58 |
brlcad |
not so much
that it "died" but that the group that created it no longer was
directed to maintain it |
| 01:23.11 |
``Erik |
brlcad,
*smack* it's MUVES-3, don't sully the name "m3", my car deserves
better |
| 01:23.30 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Ah,
that will do it |
| 01:23.59 |
``Erik |
many projects
have survived the originator... that's the beauty of oss, it CAN
survive |
| 01:24.00 |
brlcad |
yes, PD is
OSS, but it's not like it takes any active effort and is almost
always done on a "done" code |
| 01:24.35 |
brlcad |
licenseless
vs picking an OSS license |
| 01:24.48 |
``Erik |
should I hack
in gettext support on ping and do an "army" release? :D |
| 01:25.02 |
brlcad |
dude, are you
totally missing the point? |
| 01:25.24 |
brlcad |
it's not the
same |
| 01:25.41 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
guess in a sense Maxima falls into that category too - it was
originally under DOE control (which is why it still has that rather
odd note about US arms export restrictions in the copying
file...) |
| 01:25.47 |
``Erik |
apparently
O.o *shrug* I don't equate gpl and oss :( |
| 01:26.22 |
``Erik |
doe has
dumped a fair bit of interesting stuff |
| 01:26.23 |
brlcad |
mabye if I
qualified it as an OSS *license* as opposed to just OSS |
| 01:26.58 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, 'cougaar' was completely
ignored by this certain army group... *cough* |
| 01:27.08 |
brlcad |
I don't know
of another example outside the nat. labs, nasa, and a few other
gov't groups that have gone straight to licensed OSS |
| 01:27.33 |
``Erik |
isn't pd on
the osi list? |
| 01:27.41 |
brlcad |
PD isn't a
license |
| 01:27.54 |
brlcad |
being PD does
make you OSS, but it's not a license |
| 01:27.55 |
``Erik |
heh, it's
past license :D |
| 01:27.57 |
starseeker |
PD is simply
a renouncing of copyright rights |
| 01:28.42 |
``Erik |
starseeker:
I'd actaully be a bit scared of that code... heavy assembly (even
if well written), classic C style, ... |
| 01:29.05 |
``Erik |
lookin' at
the 4.3 bsd code was humbling |
| 01:29.26 |
starseeker |
``Erik: I
suppose that's true - the idea of the debugging they do and the
methodology they use is actually what interests me the
most |
| 01:29.36 |
*** part/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:29.50 |
``Erik |
I know that
faa restrictions of software development is... insane |
| 01:30.15 |
starseeker |
Assuming this
article knew what it was talking about, that is: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html |
| 01:32.48 |
``Erik |
and I'm sure
they dont' trust the software 100% :D |
| 01:34.33 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Overstated? |
| 01:35.06 |
``Erik |
um, cmmi is
an interesting notion and probably has value, btu the
implementation as it stands is ... |
| 01:35.07 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:35.39 |
``Erik |
amusingly
enoughl, gillich said something brilliant about cmmi... "it's a
yard stick" |
| 01:35.43 |
``Erik |
or something
to that nature |
| 01:36.08 |
``Erik |
in itself, it
offers nothing... it's merely a possible mechanism to measure
with |
| 01:36.52 |
starseeker |
Ah |
| 01:40.24 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
There's a question on the Gentoo bug about AMD64 - for some reason
it didn't find itcl/itk if I'm reading that message right, but I
don't know why itcl/itk would fail on AMD64? |
| 01:41.02 |
``Erik |
tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidigts all worsk fine on
amd64 fbsd |
| 01:41.14 |
starseeker |
That's what I
thought. Hmm. |
| 01:41.59 |
starseeker |
He says it
works in chrooted 32 bit environment. Odd |
| 01:48.20 |
starseeker |
Monday
morning could be a little rough... |
| 01:49.22 |
``Erik |
<- doesn't
work on monday :D |
| 01:49.46 |
starseeker |
Ah - that
helps |
| 01:50.28 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
see if they can provide a configure and build log as well as the
config.log somewhere |
| 01:50.40 |
``Erik |
*grump*
stupid wench is drunk as fuck :( |
| 01:51.10 |
``Erik |
~bzpastebin |
| 01:51.19 |
ibot |
bzpastebin is
probably http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place
to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 01:51.19 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:51.38 |
``Erik |
probably. |
| 01:52.02 |
``Erik |
"without
their heads, they're powerless!" |
| 01:52.35 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Request posted. |
| 01:53.27 |
brlcad |
thanks |
| 01:53.31 |
starseeker |
np |
| 01:53.36 |
``Erik |
I'd totally
get on anna faris. |
| 01:53.50 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Oh,
did you see my last question about b-reps? |
| 01:54.34 |
brlcad |
mm |
| 01:54.34 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 01:54.53 |
starseeker |
probably
dumb, but if you're bored... |
| 01:55.16 |
starseeker |
Naive
question - the existence of brep at a primitive level - how does
that make the core logic of model -> mesh simpler? Would it
mean that models would have to be rebuilt with the new primitive or
would the conversion of old primitives to b-rep be less
expensive? |
| 01:55.38 |
brlcad |
brep as a
primitive provides the base-level representation |
| 01:55.52 |
brlcad |
you still
need a means to load up existing implicits as a brep |
| 01:56.09 |
``Erik |
notionally,
if we had a fast ->brep conversion method, we know
brep->triangles is fast, so we could bypass all the nmg
bs |
| 01:56.31 |
brlcad |
fortunately,
that part actually isn't that bad -- you can create an ellipsoid
brep if you have the implicit form pretty
straightforward |
| 01:56.44 |
brlcad |
yep, it
bypasses the whole mess |
| 01:56.51 |
starseeker |
Swwweeeettt |
| 01:57.09 |
brlcad |
the hardest
part (and it certainly is non-trivial, but easier than the nmg
approach) is CSG evaluation of BREPS |
| 01:57.16 |
``Erik |
nmg tries to
do some tricky stuff from a poor starting point :( also; it's
fucking ugly |
| 01:58.05 |
brlcad |
csg
evaluation of breps involves creating new brep surfaces that trim
away various parts of arbitrary surfaces and weaves in other
surfaces |
| 01:58.33 |
``Erik |
is it still a
weave in brep space? |
| 01:58.34 |
brlcad |
numerically
should be a heck of a lot more stable simply because you retain the
actual structure instead of something that's been deconstructed
already |
| 01:59.10 |
starseeker |
Nice. IIRC,
you said the csg evaluation is the main remaining
component? |
| 01:59.25 |
``Erik |
the weave
notion is brilliant for striaght raytracing, but is bass ackwards
for anything else :( |
| 01:59.28 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
still have to attach surfaces from object A to those of object B
(assuming they overlap) trimming off the parts on the interior or
in negative space |
| 01:59.43 |
brlcad |
it's not that
kind of weaving |
| 01:59.56 |
``Erik |
<-
thinking boolweave |
| 01:59.56 |
brlcad |
just my
terminology for attaching the two |
| 02:00.03 |
brlcad |
yeah, nothing
at all like boolweave |
| 02:00.33 |
brlcad |
even current
nmg approach has nothing to do with boolweave |
| 02:00.40 |
``Erik |
and for
straight up "through" raytracing, I doubt I'd have thought of
anything that clever |
| 02:01.05 |
``Erik |
I'd probably
have been stuck on resolving the geometry before shooting it
:D |
| 02:01.09 |
starseeker |
phew - maybe
not a dumb question :-) I was afraid I was missing something
obvious, but it sounds like a very elegant mathematical
workaround |
| 02:01.10 |
brlcad |
it's approach
actually isn't much different either other than the surface patches
are an order or two smaller than the average BREP
surfaces |
| 02:01.43 |
``Erik |
but these
days, resolving the geometry is becoming more important |
| 02:02.27 |
brlcad |
NMGs actually
are a BREP.. just most people implicitly mean spline surface
boundary representation when they say brep, not n-manifold
polygonal boundary representation |
| 02:02.28 |
``Erik |
even
wireframe, just having the 'cutters' rendered
intuitively... |
| 02:02.52 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Is
there a good paper on the mathematics of geometry->brep and
brep->mesh conversion mathematics? |
| 02:02.54 |
``Erik |
nmg is almost
always associated with tesselating |
| 02:02.59 |
brlcad |
having this
done would make it possible to show the interior plot lines
too |
| 02:03.54 |
brlcad |
yeah,
technically our nmg lib can handle nurbs too -- that's how stay's
nurbs code was written -- but the main and original use is
polygonal |
| 02:04.24 |
``Erik |
but jay-lo's
code doesn't hit nmg? |
| 02:04.27 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
several books, but there's not really a single good paper on
it |
| 02:04.36 |
brlcad |
nope, he
avoided nmg entirely |
| 02:04.42 |
brlcad |
and
intentionally |
| 02:04.47 |
brlcad |
uses
opennurbs instead of nmg |
| 02:04.55 |
``Erik |
one of these
days, he's gonna kick my ass for calling him jay lo |
| 02:04.55 |
brlcad |
for the
representation |
| 02:05.07 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Books work, if they aren't $$$$$ on Amazon ;-) |
| 02:05.29 |
``Erik |
um |
| 02:05.37 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
wait till you're on-site -- there's plenty of books you can
get |
| 02:05.44 |
brlcad |
if you get
on-site of course :) |
| 02:05.48 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
cool |
| 02:06.04 |
``Erik |
there was
that paper that had omfg fast raytracing and ->bot conversion on
NURBS, I think? at utah? |
| 02:06.16 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
a great paper, but not a great into paper |
| 02:06.21 |
brlcad |
s/into/intro/ |
| 02:06.29 |
brlcad |
RT06
paper |
| 02:06.30 |
``Erik |
heh, no, it
assumes base competency |
| 02:07.00 |
``Erik |
starseeker:
if you're up to the challenge, someone will get you the
info. |
| 02:07.44 |
``Erik |
on sight or
not |
| 02:07.45 |
Maloeran |
thinks*
too |
| 02:07.55 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:08.06 |
``Erik |
write up a
paper, submit to ieee rt and siggraph :D |
| 02:08.13 |
Maloeran |
Sounds boring
:) |
| 02:08.16 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
just searching google will pull up a handful of papers |
| 02:08.24 |
starseeker |
brlcad: OK
:-) |
| 02:09.02 |
starseeker |
``Erik: This
one? Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces - Oliver Abert,
Markus Geimer, Stefan Muller |
| 02:09.20 |
Maloeran |
These curved
triangles would require more primitives than nurbs, but are so much
cheaper for rays to intersect |
| 02:09.44 |
``Erik |
I'm sure
they're much less expressive than t-nurbs |
| 02:10.28 |
Maloeran |
They wouldn't
describe nurbs perfectly, but it sure can be a good compromise for
performance and accuracy, between nurbs and triangles |
| 02:10.37 |
``Erik |
I think so,
starseeker |
| 02:10.49 |
``Erik |
I think I'm
thinking of "Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS
Surfaces |
| 02:10.50 |
``Erik |
Oliver Abert,
Markus Geimer, Stefan Muller" |
| 02:10.55 |
``Erik |
http://www.sci.utah.edu/~wald/RT06/papers/papers_presentations.html |
| 02:11.20 |
starseeker |
Yep - hmm, no
direct link |
| 02:11.39 |
``Erik |
I have the
book sitting ontop of my winderz spaceheater |
| 02:11.41 |
Maloeran |
I would scan
and send if I had a scanner |
| 02:11.51 |
brlcad |
e.g. http://www.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/~gk/docs/162CT.pdf |
| 02:11.51 |
starseeker |
Google to the
rescue, I think... |
| 02:11.57 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:12.06 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
also a pretty good in-depth thesis read:
http://cadd.web.cern.ch/cadd/cad_geant_int/thesis/vaitos_main.html |
| 02:12.17 |
``Erik |
and mal just
sat there coding and gawking at college chicas instead of
listening |
| 02:12.21 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:12.50 |
Maloeran |
I think you
were the one dreaming of college chicas. There was one girl in the
entire audience at that conference? :) |
| 02:12.53 |
starseeker |
Cool - GEANT
:-). I wacked my head trying to get that to compile for Gentoo
once ;-) |
| 02:12.55 |
brlcad |
and yeah,
that's the rt06 paper |
| 02:13.12 |
``Erik |
was a good
conf... didn't hurt with the awesomeness like siggraph, but was far
better than the javaone pep rally |
| 02:13.35 |
``Erik |
there were a
few girls in the group, but the eye candy was when we were out of
the conf room |
| 02:13.36 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:13.39 |
starseeker |
http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~mgm/papers/rt06.pdf
seems to be ``Erik's but it's not coughing it up right now - I'll
try later |
| 02:13.50 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Thanks :-) |
| 02:13.54 |
``Erik |
(though the
girl from unc wasn't hard on the eyes, and smrrt, too) |
| 02:14.03 |
brlcad |
there
actually are a fair bit of good references and implementations for
tessellation of breps -- to varying degrees of water
tightness |
| 02:14.28 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:14.29 |
``Erik |
um |
| 02:14.38 |
``Erik |
during the
poster presentation, she had the huge crowd |
| 02:14.44 |
Maloeran |
Ahah |
| 02:14.55 |
``Erik |
something
about using gpu's to trace complex structures or
something |
| 02:15.09 |
``Erik |
uh, she was
hardware side iirc |
| 02:15.09 |
Maloeran |
I think I
prefer a girl that can teach me stuff radically different than
maths and code |
| 02:15.09 |
brlcad |
grid of
gpus |
| 02:15.34 |
``Erik |
brlcad still
wanks thinkin' about her :D *duck* |
| 02:16.41 |
brlcad |
actually
don't remember what she even looked like |
| 02:16.46 |
brlcad |
but do
remember that she was there |
| 02:17.34 |
``Erik |
heh, I was
mroe boggled that something worth seeing came out of unc than that
there was a woman presenting |
| 02:17.45 |
brlcad |
shirley's
paper relates a bit to what we've currently got implemented:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~shirley/papers/raynurbs.pdf |
| 02:17.53 |
``Erik |
peter
shirly? |
| 02:17.59 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 02:18.05 |
``Erik |
isn't he
leeberts advisor? |
| 02:18.27 |
brlcad |
could
be |
| 02:18.48 |
``Erik |
peter and
ingo were the two people lee was sucking up to |
| 02:18.52 |
``Erik |
iirc |
| 02:19.15 |
``Erik |
and ingo is a
fresh associate, I think |
| 02:19.59 |
brlcad |
I believe
ingo left for intel |
| 02:20.07 |
brlcad |
started the
week of siggraph |
| 02:20.13 |
brlcad |
that's why he
wasn't there |
| 02:20.34 |
starseeker |
brlcad,``Erik: I've got to call it a
night, but I appreciate the references - thanks much! |
| 02:20.41 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
see ya |
| 02:20.56 |
``Erik |
huh |
| 02:21.01 |
``Erik |
later,
starseeker :D |
| 02:21.28 |
``Erik |
intel must be
droppin' some real coin for a cool job, I mean |
| 02:21.41 |
``Erik |
reshetov, now
wald? |
| 02:23.53 |
Maloeran |
Wald writes a
lot, but doesn't have much to say |
| 02:24.09 |
``Erik |
he's smart
and capable, but he tries to dominate discussions, from what I
saw |
| 02:24.18 |
Maloeran |
Yes, he likes
to be at the center of things |
| 02:24.46 |
``Erik |
it's good
that he does what he does, but he aint' the bees knees
:D |
| 02:25.16 |
louipc |
what is good
about bees' knees? |
| 02:25.31 |
``Erik |
(and, uh, I"d
rather have a loud arrogant wald publishing papers than a real
clever chicken who just writes proprietary code.
*cough*) |
| 02:26.02 |
``Erik |
I can read a
paper and learn :D |
| 02:26.05 |
brlcad |
he has gotten
stuff done -- simply (and proactively) goes after getting attention
for it too |
| 02:26.20 |
brlcad |
to each their
own, getting stuff done is what matters |
| 02:26.30 |
brlcad |
and if you
don't tell anyone about it, then you might as well have not done
it |
| 02:26.55 |
louipc |
indeed you
need to ruffle some feathers |
| 02:27.00 |
``Erik |
hacking up
some brilliant code and then locking the notions down by not
putting source or papers out ... |
| 02:27.29 |
``Erik |
patents might
actually be worse |
| 02:27.40 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 02:27.58 |
Maloeran |
Fine fine, I
get the point :) |
| 02:28.10 |
``Erik |
anyways,
papers are good |
| 02:28.31 |
``Erik |
the error
smelled of broken system when first pasted :( |
| 02:28.33 |
Maloeran |
Sure papers
are good, I'm just annoyed by the number of papers devoid of any
content |
| 02:28.43 |
``Erik |
ok... mal...
fix that. |
| 02:28.50 |
``Erik |
kick out a
paper or 3 with content |
| 02:29.21 |
``Erik |
most papers
value is in tiny incremental steps :/ not too many are brilliant
strides of length, these days |
| 02:29.30 |
brlcad |
ever |
| 02:29.40 |
Maloeran |
I thought I
wrote some 3-4 pages that contained what mattered |
| 02:29.52 |
``Erik |
I'm still in
awe at the brilliance of CS papers from the 50's and 60's given the
state at the time |
| 02:29.53 |
brlcad |
always the
case, not all of them can be seminal papers :) |
| 02:30.27 |
brlcad |
i was just
watching sutherland's sketchpad demo earlier today |
| 02:30.33 |
brlcad |
seriously
impressive for the time |
| 02:30.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:30.39 |
``Erik |
make burga
buy you real aussie beer. |
| 02:30.46 |
``Erik |
or I will
fucking kick his ass |
| 02:30.51 |
Maloeran |
Ahah,
fine |
| 02:30.57 |
``Erik |
um |
| 02:31.03 |
``Erik |
he's in
sydney? |
| 02:31.15 |
Maloeran |
Brisbane,
I'll be staying just a day in Sydney before going up
there |
| 02:31.16 |
``Erik |
I wanna say,
uh, perth has something called uh, 'black swan'? |
| 02:31.25 |
Maloeran |
And what is
it? |
| 02:31.27 |
brlcad |
have a chiko
roll while you're there |
| 02:31.28 |
``Erik |
that my dad
claimed was damn good |
| 02:31.32 |
brlcad |
i hear
they're pretty yummy |
| 02:31.40 |
Maloeran |
A chicken
roll? |
| 02:31.42 |
``Erik |
oh, also; hit
the beach and romp some of that hot aussie tail |
| 02:31.43 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 02:32.14 |
brlcad |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiko_Roll |
| 02:32.26 |
Maloeran |
I know Erik,
I was already instructed by Sophie to do so o.O |
| 02:32.40 |
Maloeran |
Curious
snack |
| 02:33.09 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 02:33.10 |
brlcad |
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/upfromaustralia/chikochick.jpg |
| 02:33.14 |
brlcad |
http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/a5/a8/1441_1.JPG |
| 02:33.15 |
``Erik |
damnit |
| 02:33.19 |
``Erik |
now I want
some lumpia :( |
| 02:33.41 |
``Erik |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpia |
| 02:33.58 |
brlcad |
"was designed
to be able to be eaten with one hand whilst drinking a beer with
the other" <-- chiko roll |
| 02:34.06 |
Maloeran |
Inspiring |
| 02:35.20 |
``Erik |
the lumpia my
mom makes is mostly carrot, cabbage and beef, about the size of a
finger, deep fat fried |
| 02:36.09 |
Maloeran |
I'm mostly
looking forward to scuba diving over there |
| 02:36.15 |
Maloeran |
And rock
climbing of course |
| 02:36.15 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:36.24 |
Maloeran |
I'll have to
find people for that though, Burga doesn't climb |
| 02:36.25 |
``Erik |
um, atch out
for the sea snakes |
| 02:36.40 |
``Erik |
my dad has
some stories about running into sea snakes in aussie waters
O.o |
| 02:36.52 |
``Erik |
highly
venemous fuckers |
| 02:37.09 |
Maloeran |
Are they
dangerous even when wearing a wet suit? |
| 02:37.21 |
``Erik |
yeah, theyc
an be up to 6' long |
| 02:37.48 |
``Erik |
barracudas
out there, too |
| 02:37.50 |
Maloeran |
Hum, ouch.
I'm reading about these for the first time |
| 02:38.05 |
Maloeran |
Jellyfishes
are usually no big deal with a wet suit |
| 02:38.14 |
``Erik |
nah, they're
surface stingers |
| 02:38.16 |
``Erik |
not
biters |
| 02:38.18 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
give a try at surfing if you're near a coast |
| 02:38.21 |
brlcad |
some of the
best surfing to be had |
| 02:38.35 |
``Erik |
teeth go
through wetsuits |
| 02:38.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/Makefile.am: gah,
merge from head .. need TCLSTUB to be included else there be
unresolved symbols on Mac and now also seen on Linux
too |
| 02:38.52 |
Maloeran |
Sure I'll
try. I wasn't too good at that when I tried in Mexico |
| 02:39.07 |
Maloeran |
( At least in
comparison to Sophie who is a snowboard teacher ) |
| 02:39.15 |
``Erik |
if ya shake
up north a bit, hit okinawa :D I lived there for 3 yrs |
| 02:39.16 |
brlcad |
meh, still
like ten times more likely you're going to get slammed into in your
car on the way to the beach than you are to be bit at the
beach |
| 02:39.31 |
``Erik |
indeed,
heh |
| 02:39.41 |
``Erik |
don't fuck
with an animal, and it won't fuck with you |
| 02:39.43 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 02:40.00 |
brlcad |
unless you
can buy her a drink first |
| 02:40.02 |
Maloeran |
Thanks for
this piece of wisdom :) |
| 02:40.09 |
``Erik |
hehe |
| 02:40.20 |
``Erik |
mmmm, hot
aussie tail |
| 02:42.30 |
brlcad |
that's the
second "already fixed on head" issue i've found now .. drat
drat |
| 02:43.15 |
Maloeran |
That's a
curious wedding ceremony |
| 02:43.27 |
``Erik |
7.12.0
yo |
| 02:53.36 |
brlcad |
hm.. setting
LDFLAGS does seem to cause it to not pass the X11 flags through,
fails at blt |
| 02:55.12 |
brlcad |
ah, they're
actually not listed for blt |
| 02:57.28 |
``Erik |
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1782347 |
| 03:00.24 |
``Erik |
"panburger
partner" O.o |
| 03:00.28 |
``Erik |
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1781996 |
| 03:04.32 |
*** join/#brlcad tttttt
(n=root@222.190.111.98) |
| 03:04.45 |
tttttt |
cvvcnbbn |
| 03:05.58 |
*** part/#brlcad tttttt
(n=root@222.190.111.98) |
| 03:07.04 |
``Erik |
ssoommeeoonnee nneeeeddss ttoo ttuurrnn
ooffff eecchhoo |
| 03:07.14 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 03:08.54 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: blt actually makes
direct calls to X11, so need to include the goods here else face
the wrath of unresolved symbols on some plats (encountered on
RHEL) |
| 03:11.05 |
brlcad |
woot
root |
| 03:28.03 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:28.34 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: blt *requires* X11 to function,
turn it off if x11 isn't available |
| 03:28.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: I have no clue what a
"BUFXIZE" is, but I know what BUFSIZ is... |
| 03:31.06 |
bpoole |
haha.
BUFXIZE? |
| 03:31.53 |
``Erik |
that's what
was in teh source |
| 03:31.59 |
``Erik |
and I
rpobably did it :( |
| 03:32.47 |
bpoole |
gj. |
| 03:33.58 |
``Erik |
actually, it
was brlcad that did that, heh |
| 03:34.05 |
``Erik |
-
strncat(suffix, suffix2, BUFSIZ); |
| 03:34.05 |
``Erik |
+
snprintf(suffix, BUFXIZE, "%s", suffix2); |
| 03:34.35 |
``Erik |
bad chris,
bad! |
| 03:34.47 |
``Erik |
1.46 ->
1.47 |
| 03:36.24 |
brlcad |
yep, just a
simple typo |
| 03:36.47 |
brlcad |
not the
first, undoubtedly the last |
| 03:37.07 |
brlcad |
if that's the
only one after about 1000 of them, my error rate is prety freaking
sweet |
| 03:37.19 |
``Erik |
and I felt
bad cuz I let a commit go without proper build testing |
| 03:37.38 |
brlcad |
i even built,
for whatever reason it passed the build |
| 03:37.53 |
``Erik |
I can't think
of why, other than bad timestamping |
| 03:38.01 |
brlcad |
or some sys
header that had it |
| 03:38.03 |
``Erik |
there's no
cpp switch on that |
| 03:38.17 |
``Erik |
BUFXIZE ?
O.o |
| 03:38.44 |
``Erik |
#include
<myfingersaretwistedandunusablebecauseIuseemacs.h> |
| 03:40.09 |
brlcad |
uh huh, that
had nothing to do with emacs |
| 03:40.36 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 03:40.56 |
``Erik |
actually, I
lost my emacs session |
| 03:41.17 |
``Erik |
power outage
dropped the machine, and I was kinda operating in the 'emacs is my
os' mode :/ |
| 03:41.46 |
bpoole |
``Erik: how's
that going for you ? (emacs) |
| 03:41.56 |
brlcad |
trivial typos
are my favorite kind of build errors.. because they're obvious,
generally easy to provoke, and easy to fix .. typos, transposed
lines, missing terminators, etc |
| 03:42.45 |
``Erik |
been busy
with other things, ben... got a machine on loan to replace my
"stable" machine, so trying to get the ports updated :/ |
| 03:43.58 |
brlcad |
a good
indicator of how involved someone is with a project too -- those
involved just fix it and go on, those not as closely involved seem
compelled to complain or comment |
| 03:44.26 |
brlcad |
seen that
happen on at least a half-dozen oss projects .. and in-house
closed |
| 03:44.57 |
brlcad |
not a black
and white meter, but interesting trend nonetheless |
| 03:45.28 |
``Erik |
I fixed it
AND whined, and not on paid time, so foff :D |
| 03:45.56 |
brlcad |
I didn't take
that as a whine |
| 03:47.42 |
brlcad |
talking more
the sort that sit on the error without even reading it, throw their
hands up and cry "it's broken !! omfg!" |
| 03:48.26 |
brlcad |
s/more/specifically/ |
| 03:50.29 |
``Erik |
we call those
"gentoo portage maintainers" ;) *duck* |
| 03:50.33 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 03:50.36 |
brlcad |
see it *all*
the time on BZ in particular, you would have thought the world had
ended |
| 03:51.01 |
``Erik |
games are a
harsh place to be in general |
| 03:51.14 |
brlcad |
don't even
have to compile-test, there are like two dozen kiddies that will
let you know within an hour crying |
| 03:51.54 |
``Erik |
<--
generally tries to at least compile to object before
committing |
| 03:52.08 |
``Erik |
but I've
commited assuming it's right before... like the clone MFC ...
O:-) |
| 03:52.36 |
``Erik |
I've been
angling more towards heavy testing though... 'distcheck' on
releases, etc |
| 03:52.40 |
brlcad |
yeah,
everyone does it from time to time |
| 03:52.46 |
brlcad |
i think
that's part of the behavior |
| 03:53.08 |
``Erik |
my personal
projects are generally unbranched... |
| 03:53.12 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: partial
merge from head, need x11 |
| 03:53.32 |
``Erik |
actually, I
have one that's close to another release, but I'm waffling due to
license issues |
| 03:53.38 |
brlcad |
the folks
that do that a lot 'generally' tend to be more fluid and not so
annoyed/concerned .. those that don't so frequently.. |
| 03:53.54 |
``Erik |
the code is
under BSD license, I'm trying to decide whether to throw out a
version that has gettext support |
| 03:54.00 |
brlcad |
lee actually
tended to do that more and more over the years the less he
coded |
| 03:54.17 |
``Erik |
internationalization is a good thing, but
the license concern.. |
| 03:56.07 |
brlcad |
I don't like
to give anyone shit about it unless they press the
point |
| 03:56.10 |
brlcad |
EVERYONE does
it |
| 03:56.12 |
``Erik |
if I push on
gettext on my personal projects, I might try adding it to
brlcad |
| 03:56.13 |
brlcad |
deal with
it |
| 03:56.27 |
``Erik |
yeah,
everyone does it, but if ya never get grief, you dont' try to get
better |
| 03:56.29 |
brlcad |
gettext is
gpl... |
| 03:56.39 |
brlcad |
that's not
true |
| 03:56.40 |
``Erik |
when I fuck
up, call me on it... I'll try to improve |
| 03:57.02 |
``Erik |
<-- more
in teh 'harsh abrasive' camp O:-) |
| 03:57.12 |
brlcad |
i mean there
are a few that are pathologically bad at making broken commits..
but they're pretty darn rare |
| 03:57.27 |
brlcad |
i don't think
that helps, myself |
| 03:57.35 |
``Erik |
yeah, *shrug*
but I'm an asshole |
| 03:57.37 |
brlcad |
just adds
tension |
| 03:58.02 |
``Erik |
I haze with a
smile, it's about the quality above all |
| 03:58.10 |
brlcad |
especially
when it's really trivial crap that doesn't matter one bit and is
really obvious |
| 03:58.44 |
brlcad |
i mean,
optimization of effort -- there are bigger issues to be complaining
about and working on than typo commits |
| 03:58.55 |
``Erik |
of course, I
had some beat-down experiences where doubel-checking before hitting
the button seriously matters |
| 03:59.28 |
brlcad |
yeah, if
you're changing core code, or without regard to the impact,
understandable |
| 03:59.43 |
``Erik |
sysadmin on
machines where a typo could mean several millions of dollars lost
and standing in a vp's office explaining exactly how ya fucked up
and how it'll never happen again... |
| 04:00.09 |
``Erik |
so I'm pretty
ashamed of that macro issue in the clone.c mfc :( |
| 04:00.17 |
brlcad |
sysadmin's a
diff matter, you don't have the revision control safety net and
'undo' revertability usually |
| 04:00.20 |
``Erik |
(yes, it bugs
me) |
| 04:00.33 |
``Erik |
actually, ya
do in a good sa situation |
| 04:00.33 |
brlcad |
see, that's a
meh issue to me other than being so close to release |
| 04:00.43 |
brlcad |
it would have
been caught on the final compilation test |
| 04:00.55 |
``Erik |
i wrote a bit
of the "move to production" subsystem |
| 04:01.15 |
``Erik |
it was all
cvs or rcs backed, it all had complete 'undo'
capability |
| 04:01.34 |
``Erik |
and the
machines configurations were all managed in a backed up central
repo |
| 04:01.35 |
``Erik |
uh |
| 04:01.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, but
that's still pretty rare for most places |
| 04:01.37 |
``Erik |
g08 |
| 04:02.04 |
``Erik |
replace a
machine with new hw? one line and it was generated back to
production capability |
| 04:02.37 |
``Erik |
from what
I've heard from friends, it's pretty common for "decent"
organizations. :/ I'm annoyed with our environment |
| 04:02.57 |
``Erik |
we get ripped
on for being "hobby shop", but the crap that's taken away is very
much hobby shop |
| 04:03.08 |
``Erik |
and I'm not
allowed to go fix it *sigh* |
| 04:04.43 |
``Erik |
"boob bones"
heehhe |
| 04:04.48 |
brlcad |
imho (not
that you're asking) that's because you either ask for/expect
permission (hah) or aren't tactful on showing the benefit or hiding
the time spent .. |
| 04:05.21 |
``Erik |
yeah... I'm
very not tactful and too open :/ |
| 04:05.23 |
brlcad |
path to
frustration |
| 04:05.44 |
``Erik |
"shut the
fuck up and get the fuck out of my way" worked dandy at fedex, less
politics |
| 04:06.02 |
``Erik |
and it's the
norm for OSS in my experience |
| 04:06.04 |
brlcad |
better
management |
| 04:06.08 |
brlcad |
for
both |
| 04:06.28 |
``Erik |
my line
manager at fedex... heh |
| 04:06.34 |
``Erik |
he actually
fell on his sword. |
| 04:06.36 |
``Erik |
*cough* |
| 04:07.03 |
``Erik |
he sued his
manager and won whiel I was leaving... he really omfg fell on his
sword |
| 04:07.09 |
brlcad |
lee has
actually gone to bat for me several times over the
years |
| 04:07.19 |
``Erik |
me too, so
has ed |
| 04:07.39 |
``Erik |
I don't
leverage them enough :) |
| 04:07.58 |
brlcad |
true
dat |
| 04:08.03 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 04:09.21 |
``Erik |
<-- too
honest and up front... folk like dwayne seem to appreciate it, but
mgmt doesn't |
| 04:09.39 |
brlcad |
hm, there is
a bsd gettext |
| 04:09.57 |
brlcad |
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/bsd-gettext/ |
| 04:10.03 |
``Erik |
at
postgres |
| 04:10.04 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 04:10.18 |
``Erik |
<-
scratches his chin |
| 04:10.25 |
brlcad |
that would
work |
| 04:10.30 |
brlcad |
the gnu one
is teh evil |
| 04:10.45 |
``Erik |
one of my
apps (gpl) had gnu gettext and I ended up removing it for some
reason |
| 04:10.46 |
brlcad |
license-wise |
| 04:10.51 |
``Erik |
um,
rand |
| 04:11.04 |
``Erik |
I was looking
to add it to timestamp, but the license issue... heh |
| 04:11.19 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 04:11.41 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=7 |
| 04:11.46 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=95 |
| 04:12.04 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 04:12.15 |
``Erik |
simple little
utils :) |
| 04:13.05 |
brlcad |
what's
running your site there? you wrote software.php and have a
descriptor file per project or something? |
| 04:13.56 |
``Erik |
um, it's
backed by postgres |
| 04:14.09 |
``Erik |
software.php
just talks to the db |
| 04:14.18 |
``Erik |
all scratch
written, fairly old |
| 04:14.21 |
brlcad |
k |
| 04:15.01 |
``Erik |
went for a
semi-/. feel, wrote it just before /. did the registration stuff
iirc |
| 04:15.21 |
brlcad |
looking to
(finally) set up something similar for my data archive, but have
been *trying* to avoid custom |
| 04:15.55 |
brlcad |
something
minimal-yet-flexible for my various code and non-code
projects |
| 04:15.57 |
``Erik |
heh, mycrap
has been maintenance for a long time, so it doesn't matter to
me |
| 04:16.11 |
brlcad |
couple
hundred that I've ever worked on, some private, most public, all
already organized hierarchically |
| 04:16.17 |
``Erik |
if I had to
start from scratch, i'd probably go for a wiki based
thing |
| 04:17.08 |
brlcad |
hmmm.. i
suppose mediawiki could handle it with a custom module |
| 04:17.13 |
``Erik |
all my crap
shows age :( |
| 04:17.31 |
``Erik |
'rand' and
'vp' before image viewers could do what those do |
| 04:17.46 |
brlcad |
thing is I
don't want to add each project individually, hoping to just create
a descriptor file throughout my archive that has the access
details, and let the module take care of it |
| 04:18.30 |
``Erik |
hum, mine has
a form to add each project, and af orm to add each OS to each
project, and a from for each release, and a form for each news
entry... |
| 04:18.57 |
brlcad |
hrm, more
linkage errors on rhel |
| 04:19.27 |
``Erik |
hum, looks
like my big web move was in jul '99 |
| 04:19.41 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
works for software, but a lot of mine is fairly 'random' .. lots of
non-code projects too |
| 04:20.12 |
brlcad |
some artwork,
some literature, photography |
| 04:20.18 |
``Erik |
heh, I should
rename the 'articles' to 'essays' I think |
| 04:20.55 |
``Erik |
and my fbsd/
directory isn't wired to the db or php, it's just cvs'd
html |
| 04:20.56 |
brlcad |
just about
any CMS would work, but I so don't want to "populate" a CMS, I want
the archive to be "the" data that the site presents |
| 04:21.10 |
``Erik |
wait, it does
use php, so I can have a + |
| 04:21.27 |
``Erik |
mod_lisp
looks interesting |
| 04:21.37 |
louipc |
oh man php is
messy |
| 04:21.44 |
``Erik |
I need to
test if it can persist contained data |
| 04:22.04 |
``Erik |
um, like have
each connection thread able to access a 'global'
structure |
| 04:26.58 |
``Erik |
heh,
wow |
| 04:27.33 |
*** part/#brlcad trainman419
(n=hendrix@75.15.127.134) |
| 04:27.41 |
``Erik |
'gwci' before
firefox, ... |
| 04:27.49 |
``Erik |
iview... my
first and only c&d :D |
| 04:37.10 |
``Erik |
ehehhee an
entry when I bought my first mac :) |
| 04:54.38 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: more undefined
references on RHEL, need LIBGL if opengl is enabled |
| 04:55.51 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: more undefined
references on RHEL -- need the deps for rt, bn, and bu |
| 05:18.05 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more RHELness, multispectral
needs symbols from optical |
| 05:21.53 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/Makefile.am: uses
libm |
| 05:26.30 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): more flawfinding
quellage and bu_exiting |
| 05:26.45 |
``Erik |
tequila is
evil. |
| 05:28.15 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: quell constness warnings,
make the editor string const |
| 05:28.28 |
louipc |
wowsers |
| 05:28.34 |
brlcad |
hey ``Erik ..
question for ya |
| 05:28.46 |
brlcad |
probably not
the best time if your tequealing |
| 05:28.52 |
brlcad |
but
.. |
| 05:29.38 |
brlcad |
trying to
come up with some way to add -Werror to the build now that we're
almost completely warningless on some platforms ..... but not for
anything in src/other |
| 05:29.54 |
brlcad |
any
ideas? |
| 05:30.01 |
louipc |
hacking drunk
is a blast |
| 05:30.07 |
louipc |
well anything
drunk is a blast |
| 05:30.10 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 05:33.58 |
``Erik |
heh,
uhhhh |
| 05:34.26 |
``Erik |
I kinda had
the notion of moving $(top_srcdir)/src/other to
$(top_srcdir)/contrib |
| 05:34.37 |
``Erik |
so abuse can
be applied to src/ without crap getting in the mix |
| 05:35.17 |
``Erik |
I don't know
of any way to undo a cflag without automake bitching |
| 05:35.54 |
brlcad |
maybe after
svn |
| 05:36.07 |
``Erik |
*nod* would
be ugly on cvs |
| 05:36.09 |
brlcad |
that's one
way I suppose, could then add it to the subtree |
| 05:36.45 |
``Erik |
well |
| 05:36.54 |
``Erik |
you know my
opinion on the src/other dir |
| 05:36.56 |
``Erik |
*shrug* |
| 05:37.11 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 05:37.19 |
``Erik |
I was
actually a bit upset with how many imports I found in my personal
cvs repo :( |
| 05:37.26 |
``Erik |
siod, quack
2, ... |
| 05:37.56 |
``Erik |
<-- talks
it, but doesn't always walk it :( |
| 05:40.27 |
``Erik |
now, uh, if
you feel like being repetitive, you could always add it to
AM_CFLAGS for each dir |
| 05:41.26 |
brlcad |
yeah, nah,
that'd suck |
| 05:41.33 |
``Erik |
on personal
projects, I like "-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic", but BRL-CAD
doesn't cope well with that rig |
| 05:41.36 |
brlcad |
the benefit
is pretty minimal, just nice housekeeping |
| 05:41.55 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 05:42.03 |
``Erik |
I almost got
one of my project splint clean |
| 05:42.13 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
pretty standard set |
| 05:42.22 |
brlcad |
usually use
the same |
| 05:42.31 |
``Erik |
flawfinder
has a couple low hits (getopt not protecting buffers on old
platforms, etc) |
| 05:42.54 |
brlcad |
i wouldn't
look at anything below 3, it's got way to many false
positives |
| 05:43.08 |
``Erik |
um, I think
the getopt() one actually lsts as 2 |
| 05:43.09 |
brlcad |
even most of
the 3's |
| 05:43.09 |
``Erik |
er |
| 05:43.10 |
``Erik |
3 |
| 05:43.22 |
brlcad |
there are now
about 800 4's left |
| 05:43.35 |
brlcad |
about 600 are
quellable |
| 05:43.46 |
brlcad |
the rest are
false positives |
| 05:43.59 |
brlcad |
with no
reasonable way to shut them up |
| 05:44.00 |
``Erik |
I'd imagine
that 99% of them are "well handled" to begin with... the kinda
thing a new coder could be thrown at |
| 05:44.21 |
brlcad |
that's where
I think coverity will do a better job |
| 05:44.47 |
brlcad |
yeah,
easily |
| 05:45.00 |
``Erik |
how's that
coming along? those dudes were trying to get something fixed to
cope with our weirdness, iirc? |
| 05:45.03 |
brlcad |
one of a
dozen tasks like that |
| 05:45.31 |
``Erik |
I want good
libbu and libbn documentation :( |
| 05:45.32 |
brlcad |
yeah, they're
just "busy" last I pinged them |
| 05:45.40 |
brlcad |
bu, bn, and
rt |
| 05:45.53 |
``Erik |
when I was
mucking with vls for clone, I was unhappy at how often I had to go
look at code |
| 05:45.58 |
brlcad |
pkg and wdb
for good measure |
| 05:46.22 |
``Erik |
and
completion felt weak, thus the macros |
| 05:46.33 |
brlcad |
completion? |
| 05:47.00 |
brlcad |
you mean
funcs missing? |
| 05:47.10 |
``Erik |
yeah, I
expected strcmp type things |
| 05:47.40 |
brlcad |
that's just a
matter of refactoring -- stuff hasn't really been ever added to any
of the libs until/unless it's in use |
| 05:47.49 |
``Erik |
total
encapsulation type stuff |
| 05:47.52 |
brlcad |
nobody ever
needed/refactored with a strcmp need |
| 05:49.36 |
``Erik |
I wonder if
vls's shoudl hold some kinda hash value for fast strcmp type needs
:/ |
| 05:51.03 |
``Erik |
even though
there are only 5 calls in the entire source tree, heh |
| 05:51.45 |
``Erik |
but there are
a fair number of strcmp() with one arg being a vls... |
| 05:53.44 |
brlcad |
damn alicia
keys is hot and a awesome artist |
| 05:55.01 |
brlcad |
45 strcmp's
that have at least one vls lookup |
| 05:55.02 |
``Erik |
in other
news; fire is hot, ice is cold, and windows sucks. |
| 05:55.37 |
``Erik |
but they're
not consistant in which arg is the vls |
| 05:55.43 |
``Erik |
easily
fixable, but a grind |
| 05:56.33 |
brlcad |
many of those
strcmps could go away too |
| 05:56.58 |
brlcad |
1236 calls to
strcmp |
| 05:57.35 |
brlcad |
probably a
third should be strncmp or strlcmp |
| 05:57.36 |
``Erik |
<-- didn't
look at 'em, just noticed when finding
strcmp(bu_vls_addr(a),bu_vls_addr(b)) |
| 05:58.02 |
``Erik |
heh, I
thought you didn't like strlcmp :D too obsd specific or
something |
| 05:58.55 |
``Erik |
I put in
requests to get cygwin and msvc on bobs winderz machine |
| 05:59.32 |
``Erik |
if he can
make it so his office mate *cough* can build without asking anyone
for help, that'd be a good step |
| 06:00.19 |
brlcad |
strlcmp is a
bad example, that's not c89 iirc |
| 06:00.26 |
brlcad |
but those
kinds of functions |
| 06:00.33 |
``Erik |
no, not c90,
not c99... obsd |
| 06:00.35 |
brlcad |
to check
length at same time |
| 06:00.47 |
``Erik |
strncmp() is
the best portable afaik |
| 06:00.54 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
one is c89 |
| 06:01.43 |
``Erik |
my obsd
builds said to use strlcmp() instead, that's the only place I've
seen that func come up |
| 06:04.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, strncmp
is a pain to remember that it's length and not size, though less
important for cmp |
| 06:04.53 |
brlcad |
more
important for cpy, strncpy vs strlcpy |
| 06:05.08 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:06.47 |
brlcad |
cept it
allocates, can't use buffers |
| 06:07.05 |
``Erik |
most uses of
strcpy() follow a malloc |
| 06:07.46 |
brlcad |
eh |
| 06:08.16 |
``Erik |
sorry, they
do |
| 06:08.34 |
brlcad |
I don't
believe that, at least it's just as likely that someone copies into
a char[] than that they have an alloc'd char* |
| 06:08.43 |
``Erik |
go ahead,
script up something to grind on sf to look for that
pattern |
| 06:08.48 |
``Erik |
it's....
common |
| 06:08.52 |
brlcad |
you're the
one making the claim |
| 06:08.57 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:09.06 |
brlcad |
i'm not gonna
waste my time doing that :) |
| 06:09.11 |
``Erik |
I'm also the
one who's excessively lazy ;) |
| 06:10.02 |
brlcad |
besides it
doesn't matter -- if people only ever made dups of a string then
str[nl]cpy wouldn't have been made and we'd only have strdup
:P |
| 06:10.17 |
``Erik |
in the code
I've laid hands on, I believe that most uses of str*cpy() are into
freshly allocated memory (often malloc'd, sometimes stack
alloc) |
| 06:10.38 |
``Erik |
strcpy
predates strdup by quite a bit, though |
| 06:11.07 |
brlcad |
having gone
through nearly 500 instances in brl-cad's code already, it's a
fairly even split of buffers and mallocs |
| 06:11.33 |
brlcad |
entirely
unscientific counting of course |
| 06:11.51 |
``Erik |
the gnarled
hands of an emacs use? |
| 06:11.53 |
``Erik |
user? |
| 06:12.25 |
brlcad |
just
recollections of the edits since I've been checking other things
while I cleanup (like bombing, !!!!'s, allocs, etc) |
| 06:13.05 |
``Erik |
I wonder if
user message format should be addressed in hacking |
| 06:13.15 |
brlcad |
the most
annoying is the f'd up inconsistent indentation style on some of
the dirs |
| 06:13.16 |
``Erik |
consistant
message format |
| 06:14.04 |
brlcad |
think I need
to add a style var to the emacs local var footer so that braces
aren't jacked on indent |
| 06:14.24 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 06:14.40 |
brlcad |
vim has the
same issue, just a matter of setting the style |
| 06:14.57 |
``Erik |
probably
handled in my overweight .vimrc |
| 06:15.00 |
brlcad |
I can set it
for my emacs, but then that doesn't solve the problem |
| 06:16.19 |
brlcad |
moss's code
is one of the worst offenders |
| 06:16.27 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:16.41 |
brlcad |
his code
often smells like s2 |
| 06:16.47 |
``Erik |
hum, splain
it to me, lucy |
| 06:16.53 |
``Erik |
rt asks for a
ray |
| 06:16.57 |
``Erik |
librt shoots
it |
| 06:16.58 |
brlcad |
(not
surprising since that's what he worked on) |
| 06:17.07 |
``Erik |
liboptical
figures out what to do with a hit |
| 06:17.20 |
``Erik |
no? where are
the actual hand-offs in all that? |
| 06:17.30 |
brlcad |
that's about
right |
| 06:17.52 |
``Erik |
suppose I
wanted to write a direct hit lighting model |
| 06:17.55 |
brlcad |
then
liboptical sets the value, the rt sends to libfb and/or whatever
output channel via the application struct |
| 06:17.58 |
``Erik |
-l99 |
| 06:18.10 |
``Erik |
how do I stub
it in? |
| 06:18.14 |
brlcad |
data passing
is done through the resource and application structures |
| 06:18.18 |
brlcad |
mostly the
app structure |
| 06:18.21 |
``Erik |
the photon
mapping stuff seems horribly wedged |
| 06:18.42 |
brlcad |
lighting
models are handled in rt |
| 06:18.47 |
brlcad |
it is
horribly wedged |
| 06:18.53 |
brlcad |
justin's not
a great example |
| 06:19.01 |
``Erik |
I saw three
big siwtches for lighting model in rt/ I think |
| 06:19.03 |
brlcad |
er, his
code |
| 06:19.17 |
brlcad |
yeah, they're
about it |
| 06:19.34 |
``Erik |
so there's no
map table or anything? it's just hard coded in? |
| 06:20.22 |
``Erik |
I should
probably look at the uhhhh normal coloring |
| 06:21.01 |
``Erik |
seemed there
was no clear contract between rt and liboptical... |
| 06:21.17 |
``Erik |
<-- kinda
wants to write a 'toon' shader :) |
| 06:21.24 |
brlcad |
that's what
the view files do -- handoffs between whatever optic model you're
using |
| 06:22.08 |
``Erik |
um, are the
shadow rays thrown in rt/view.c ? |
| 06:23.02 |
brlcad |
shadow rays
are specific to a phong-type shader, phong actually shoots
them |
| 06:23.20 |
brlcad |
(i.e. in
liboptical) |
| 06:24.18 |
brlcad |
hence the
variety of rt_shootray calls in liboptical |
| 06:24.54 |
``Erik |
hm |
| 06:25.20 |
``Erik |
don't be too
terribly surprised if you see a new lighting model in the semi-near
future :) |
| 06:25.37 |
``Erik |
it seems like
one of those things with a good thinking/grunt ratio |
| 06:26.16 |
brlcad |
fun
stuff |
| 06:26.19 |
``Erik |
I think I got
most of the grunt in clone out of the way, but the thinking
involves some major user insight :/ |
| 06:26.50 |
``Erik |
classic
mirror works only on cardinal axis... I want it to work on
arbitrary vectors... |
| 06:26.51 |
``Erik |
etc |
| 06:27.09 |
brlcad |
alas, I
haven't coded up a new/clean lighting model yet, so no path of
lookups like there are for new shaders and prims |
| 06:27.19 |
brlcad |
but there
pretty straightforward |
| 06:27.32 |
``Erik |
um |
| 06:27.34 |
``Erik |
speaking of
prims |
| 06:27.39 |
brlcad |
there are a
couple really simple ones that do things like visualize the
material thickness per ray |
| 06:27.40 |
``Erik |
g-xxx.c ...
should be fixed |
| 06:28.06 |
``Erik |
the normal
model looks like a good place to dig in to me |
| 06:28.17 |
``Erik |
since I just
want first hit shading |
| 06:28.59 |
``Erik |
I dunno if I
said it, but we need a function to generate a ray set correlating
to an arbitrary ae for both ortho and perspective |
| 06:29.02 |
brlcad |
rtedge
probably could have been done as a lighting model |
| 06:29.08 |
``Erik |
so g_qa.c can
have non-cardinal runs |
| 06:29.14 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 06:29.20 |
brlcad |
yeah, I've
been saying that for years too |
| 06:29.30 |
brlcad |
just haven't
gotten to that refactoring |
| 06:29.35 |
``Erik |
yeah,
heh |
| 06:29.41 |
brlcad |
its' just
pushing a chunk of code from worker into librt |
| 06:29.46 |
brlcad |
"just" |
| 06:29.48 |
``Erik |
I keep saying
"yup, we need it, uh, maybe after XXX" |
| 06:30.14 |
``Erik |
many of the
rt's duplicate functionality in not quite the same manners
:( |
| 06:30.19 |
``Erik |
and I don't
like that |
| 06:30.57 |
``Erik |
heh, rt
should boil down to if(strncmp(*argv, "... |
| 06:30.58 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 06:31.01 |
``Erik |
imho |
| 06:31.25 |
brlcad |
yeah, and
much of it is like that .. just not enough |
| 06:31.49 |
brlcad |
the entire
"rt backend" -- which cake actually made more obvious -- belongs in
a lib |
| 06:31.56 |
``Erik |
oh, uh, image
conversion, I'm tempted to grab libconvert and shove it in
src/other/ and redo the entire pix conversion suite to be two func
calls |
| 06:32.21 |
``Erik |
hey, I was
given a cd and told to make it automake |
| 06:32.26 |
``Erik |
I had no clue
what I was lookin' at :D |
| 06:33.03 |
brlcad |
not saying
it's right or wrong, just autoobfuscated :) |
| 06:33.32 |
``Erik |
cake still
gives me the willies |
| 06:34.04 |
``Erik |
if I'd have
known any utility cake providd above and beyond, I would've
commented it in the am |
| 06:35.11 |
``Erik |
<-- got a
few dirty looks when he first started cuz he kept referring to the
"hit by a bus" situation as a need to document
properly... |
| 06:35.45 |
``Erik |
guess it hit
too close to home for a few folk :/ |
| 06:36.43 |
brlcad |
no time to
make things simple for the noobs :) |
| 06:36.51 |
brlcad |
that's
valuable coding time |
| 06:37.03 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:37.20 |
``Erik |
should I
point out the tragic flaw there? :D |
| 06:37.48 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 06:39.01 |
``Erik |
y'know |
| 06:39.14 |
brlcad |
yup |
| 06:39.19 |
``Erik |
much of
libbu's functionality is found in glib |
| 06:39.34 |
``Erik |
how heretical
would it be to ponder that? |
| 06:39.41 |
brlcad |
sure is, the
nature of a basic library |
| 06:39.51 |
brlcad |
also much of
it is in the stl too |
| 06:40.05 |
``Erik |
stl is for
c++ weenies, not real coders |
| 06:40.13 |
brlcad |
as well as
the boost libs, glib, and a dozen others ;) |
| 06:40.16 |
``Erik |
last I heard,
stl wasn't very... standard... |
| 06:40.24 |
brlcad |
that's old
news |
| 06:40.35 |
``Erik |
the msvc
users were hand deleting their own stl and importing
sgi's |
| 06:40.45 |
brlcad |
it's pretty
solid now |
| 06:41.01 |
brlcad |
anythings
past msvc 6 |
| 06:41.10 |
brlcad |
msvc 6 and
before sucked ass |
| 06:41.11 |
``Erik |
msvc6 is
still used |
| 06:41.15 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:41.19 |
``Erik |
I have a cd
with msvc1 |
| 06:41.22 |
brlcad |
exceptionally
rare |
| 06:41.26 |
brlcad |
that's
ancient bustage |
| 06:41.30 |
``Erik |
up against
the cd with borland 4.51 |
| 06:41.41 |
``Erik |
wanna trip
into suckage? I can loan 'em... :D |
| 06:41.54 |
brlcad |
i have vc6
somewhere |
| 06:41.56 |
brlcad |
it's not
worth it |
| 06:42.05 |
brlcad |
it was
outright broken and incompliant in many ways |
| 06:42.21 |
``Erik |
I used msvc5
and 6, it convinced me to rely on cygwin/mingw32 |
| 06:42.36 |
brlcad |
can take care
of the issues with some things (C code isn't too horrible, C++ is
horrible, though) |
| 06:42.48 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:42.51 |
brlcad |
7 and 8 were
vast improvements |
| 06:43.01 |
``Erik |
at the time,
msvc supported c++ a whole lot better than gcc |
| 06:43.09 |
``Erik |
uh, egcs, for
the cool kids |
| 06:43.46 |
brlcad |
yeah, caring
about msvc6 is like caring about gcc1/egcs portability |
| 06:43.54 |
brlcad |
you just
don't do it |
| 06:44.17 |
brlcad |
unless you
have somebody funding that waste of time |
| 06:45.00 |
``Erik |
:/ I was a
big c++ proponent for a while, then I got heavy into leenewx and
realized C could do all that stuff without much work... then many
years later, I got into smalltalk,and then I "got" oo (I think)...
and c++ just ain't there... objc is a lot closer |
| 06:46.21 |
brlcad |
smalltalk is
one of my favorite languages |
| 06:46.26 |
``Erik |
amusingly
enough, ruby is probably my favorite "oo" language, and I've run
into several situations where ruby just doesn't hold up so I switch
to thscheme or lithp inthtead |
| 06:46.29 |
brlcad |
favorite
impractical languages |
| 06:46.58 |
``Erik |
the crypt
game in squeak... w00t :D |
| 06:47.40 |
brlcad |
c++ best and
worst feature is that it doesn't really confine you to any paradigm
and actually lets you implement three or four fundamentally
different styles |
| 06:48.02 |
``Erik |
'cept, uh, it
doens't do a couple that it claims to |
| 06:48.15 |
``Erik |
the biggest
feature of oo, imho, is multi-dispatch |
| 06:48.23 |
brlcad |
you can
seriously abuse the template layer and get lispness, you can go
pure OO, you can go run-time ala objc, functional, etc |
| 06:48.29 |
``Erik |
and alan kay
has said the same... he has harsh things to say about
c++ |
| 06:48.57 |
``Erik |
I loaned out
the uh, patterns book |
| 06:49.00 |
brlcad |
that just
means the power is in the hands of the coder to know what to do and
what NOT to do |
| 06:49.16 |
``Erik |
the notion of
a design pattern, to me, is an indication of a failure in the
language to do its duty |
| 06:49.53 |
brlcad |
eh, you have
design patterns in just about every language |
| 06:49.57 |
``Erik |
I have a set
of slides somewhere, um, design patterns for ml |
| 06:50.00 |
brlcad |
it's just a
.. pattern of use |
| 06:50.14 |
``Erik |
and MOST of
the c++ listed ones disappear, because "the language just handles
that" |
| 06:51.21 |
brlcad |
yeah.. ml's a
great practical language :P |
| 06:51.30 |
brlcad |
a clear
success :) |
| 06:51.32 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:51.42 |
``Erik |
it's a good
language |
| 06:51.46 |
``Erik |
it just has
no good apps |
| 06:51.49 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 06:51.53 |
brlcad |
that's not
all it's missing :) |
| 06:52.25 |
``Erik |
<-- thtill
a lithp weenie, tho won't argue |
| 06:52.28 |
brlcad |
otherwise
it'd have a significant devout following like the
python/ruby/scheme/etc camps |
| 06:52.38 |
brlcad |
it's a great
academic language for teaching languages |
| 06:52.45 |
``Erik |
I think both
breeds have a serious following |
| 06:52.58 |
``Erik |
and scheme is
kinda the lithp for schools... |
| 06:53.10 |
``Erik |
the pathcal
of lithpth, even |
| 06:53.36 |
``Erik |
still my
favorite lisp, but I'm trying to learn common lisp... |
| 06:53.39 |
``Erik |
and
emacs |
| 06:53.48 |
``Erik |
they tell me
that's what the grown-ups use |
| 06:54.05 |
brlcad |
every
language has its strengths, weaknesses, and applicability for
various purposes |
| 06:54.16 |
``Erik |
indeed |
| 06:54.23 |
brlcad |
one of C++'s
best strengths and biggest weaknesses is its
flexibility |
| 06:54.27 |
``Erik |
only those
fluent in a wide variety have anything to say |
| 06:54.49 |
brlcad |
depends what
I'm doing |
| 06:55.02 |
brlcad |
(for
me) |
| 06:55.10 |
``Erik |
though I have
had on and off urges to use c++ over the last decade or so
:/ |
| 06:55.28 |
``Erik |
"that'd fit
well into c++'s hobbled notion of oo" |
| 06:55.30 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 06:55.45 |
``Erik |
but at that
point, ruby is probably 'nuff |
| 06:55.48 |
brlcad |
for big
architecting, c++ wins for me, good balance of power, performance,
and flexibility |
| 06:55.53 |
brlcad |
(over
objc) |
| 06:56.04 |
brlcad |
for dynamic
interactive apps, objc usually wins |
| 06:56.25 |
brlcad |
to a point,
gets nasty as they get bigger |
| 06:56.28 |
``Erik |
see, I'd
rather start with an obscenely high level language, do bottom up in
it, or the skeery bi-directional deisgn of lisp users |
| 06:56.41 |
``Erik |
and as the
language fails, start re-doing bits in a lower level
language |
| 06:57.07 |
``Erik |
if I *NEED*
to shave that .02% off, switch to C |
| 06:57.51 |
brlcad |
all of the
functional languages fail for me from purely practical standpoints
-- admittedly self-defeating reasons -- not useful to use for an
app core simply because there aren't many coders for that language
and it's a polarizing political/academic debate on the language's
utility |
| 06:58.18 |
``Erik |
that approach
has failed me bigtime, though. I had a top down shooter game that
developed a hitch every half second due to naive stop© gc
:/ |
| 06:58.37 |
brlcad |
ew |
| 06:58.56 |
``Erik |
should hacked
a generational into it |
| 06:59.03 |
``Erik |
or at least
treadmill |
| 06:59.38 |
``Erik |
(amusingly
enough... I argued gc's and learned a fair bit from salzman... who
went to cmu...) |
| 07:01.08 |
``Erik |
hrmph |
| 07:01.21 |
``Erik |
I wonder
where my big orange and blue "basic for the commodore 64" book
went |
| 07:01.31 |
``Erik |
it had a
chapter on garbage collection, but I ignored it... |
| 07:01.52 |
``Erik |
I mean,
64,000 bytes? how can you run out of that??? ... (until I tried to
do voxels on the machine) |
| 07:03.12 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128564803.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:06.22 |
``Erik |
*grouse* |
| 07:07.42 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-27
(i=cia@208.69.182.149) |
| 07:08.16 |
``Erik |
this
sucks. |
| 07:20.20 |
``Erik |
nhttp://www.xkcd.com/ |
| 07:22.10 |
``Erik |
http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/ |
| 07:30.21 |
IriX64 |
i should take
slight to that :) |
| 07:30.58 |
IriX64 |
yea, got
cygwin running on vista64. |
| 07:32.53 |
IriX64 |
singular
works, means i can compile brlcad wee |
| 08:04.44 |
IriX64 |
configure
pegs the user cpu meter but kernal time is approx 60 %
:) |
| 08:06.50 |
tarzeau |
brlcad:
strange and with -O0 too? |
| 08:07.02 |
tarzeau |
brlcad:
anyways, if you can't reproduce it... i can build debian packages
now :) |
| 08:13.03 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 08:21.12 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:32.42 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64_
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128564803.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 09:12.54 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 09:12.55 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet,
more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now |
| 09:36.57 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 09:43.13 |
brlcad |
tarzeau:
nope, working fine .. not sure how changing the optimization level
is supposed to break the build, works fine here |
| 09:43.25 |
brlcad |
tarzeau: if
you have a build log, be interesting to see the error |
| 09:43.35 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
sounds like you have something working on your end |
| 10:08.39 |
tarzeau |
brlcad: ok
thanks |
| 10:09.50 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad:
busy? |
| 10:15.31 |
*** part/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 10:33.52 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 12:04.54 |
starseeker |
Ah hah - now
the rt06 download works. |
| 14:09.57 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 14:42.51 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
hi |
| 14:47.51 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
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| 15:50.04 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
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| 16:15.44 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: quite |
| 16:15.49 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 16:15.58 |
MinuteElectron |
I won't
bother you then, my query is non-essential. |
| 16:16.31 |
MinuteElectron |
Well, that
really depends on your viewpoint - but I'd rather not disturb you
and it is nothing integral. |
| 16:16.33 |
brlcad |
i'll ping you
later when I can chat better |
| 16:16.37 |
MinuteElectron |
ok,
sure |
| 16:16.59 |
brlcad |
tweaked the
header some more for the download image |
| 16:17.17 |
MinuteElectron |
I saw ;) -
looking better. |
| 16:17.27 |
brlcad |
yeh, still
not great, but better |
| 16:17.35 |
MinuteElectron |
True |
| 19:32.20 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
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*** part/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@trapezewireless23.insecure.utah.edu) |
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*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
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| 21:40.16 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
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*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
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| 22:33.14 |
starseeker |
Cool - they
FINALLY collect the ebuild messages for multiple ebuilds at the end
of the whole install |
| 22:33.32 |
``Erik |
huh,
tclb2 |
| 22:34.54 |
MinuteElectron |
brlcad: That
thing I was talking about earlier was because I got a bus error
from PHP and the guys in ##php said that it was something to do
with the binaries. Probably the completely wrong diagnosis but I
was worried it might be important. So, yeah. I am going to go to
bed now - speak soon I suppose. |
| 22:39.26 |
starseeker |
This direct
raytracing of NURBs looks interesting - I'm curious though, how
would such behavior interact in librt with the other types of
analysis BRL-CAD is used for? Does the ARL have an internal
database of previous analyses it could use to compare the results
of the old methods and a NURBS based intersection
simulation? |
| 22:45.08 |
starseeker |
Hmm, hang on
- gotta restart to make sure I didn't just nuke my sound
drivers... |
| 22:54.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:04.54 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-18-244.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 23:05.04 |
starseeker |
Ah, there we
go :-) |
| 23:06.07 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:07.01 |
``Erik |
starseeker,
we have a good amount of geometry that was modelled in tnurbs using
stuff like pro-engineer that was tesselated to convert to our
format... we can't share those files, but we can test for ya if you
do nurbs work |
| 23:07.15 |
``Erik |
right
now |
| 23:07.22 |
starseeker |
hehe
:-) |
| 23:07.49 |
starseeker |
I'm not ready
yet to do that level of work - got some homework to do
first |
| 23:07.54 |
``Erik |
the geometry
isn't classified secret or anything, but it's not releasable due to
contract constraints |
| 23:08.00 |
starseeker |
Right |
| 23:08.41 |
``Erik |
folk like
general dynamics and raytheon dont' embrace the same notions
:) |
| 23:08.55 |
starseeker |
Pity
;-) |
| 23:13.36 |
starseeker |
``Erik: From
the "public" standpoint, I suppose it would probably be more
interesting anyway to model thinks like WWII weapons |
| 23:13.59 |
starseeker |
Although I
doubt enough detailed info survives on most of that to build a
model anymore |
| 23:14.07 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:14.19 |
``Erik |
it
does |
| 23:14.24 |
starseeker |
Really?? |
| 23:14.28 |
``Erik |
the gear
still exists, some in private hands |
| 23:14.57 |
starseeker |
Oh, sure -
but that would be quite a project. The blueprints was what I was
thinking about... |
| 23:15.02 |
``Erik |
wheel your
arse out to APG with a caliper and tape measure, got a field full
of ww1 and ww2 tanks just sitting there for epeople to gawk
at |
| 23:15.10 |
``Erik |
I'm sure
blueprints exist, but might not be public |
| 23:15.19 |
starseeker |
point |
| 23:18.06 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:18.11 |
``Erik |
buildings are
public record |
| 23:18.45 |
``Erik |
it was like
$20 for a reproduction of a residence like 15 years ago |
| 23:18.56 |
starseeker |
Hmm. |
| 23:35.21 |
starseeker |
errrgh. The
design documents for the superconducting super collider are online,
but they are some sort of funky postscript |
| 23:48.34 |
starseeker |
Humph. Looks
like you can get them but you have to wade through huge bureaucracy
to do it. Figures. Same thing with the Saturn V
goodies. |
| 23:56.41 |
``Erik |
hum, ps is a
language intended to spew 2d stuff |
| 23:57.01 |
``Erik |
um, we might
be able to snarf that up into sketch objects or
something |
| 23:57.21 |
starseeker |
http://www.hep.net/ssc/new/repository.html |
| 23:57.43 |
starseeker |
Ghostscript
can't do much with them out of the box |
| 23:58.08 |
starseeker |
They've got
copyright Apple in there so it might be a capture of some code sent
to an Apple printer... |
| 23:58.50 |
starseeker |
I've dealt
with some postscript code intended for printers, and it ain't
pretty... |
| 23:59.06 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:59.25 |
``Erik |
NeXT used ps
as the primary display language, iirc, and jobs may've carried
those properties when he went back to apple |
| 23:59.32 |
``Erik |
might be
display related, not printer related |
| 23:59.33 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 23:59.39 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 00:00.03 |
starseeker |
This might be
interesting, but I'm not sure what they mean by "code": http://www.hep.net/ssc/new/codes.html |
| 00:00.20 |
starseeker |
Probably
software |
| 00:01.51 |
starseeker |
Hmm - wonder
if Brookhaven ever posted it anywhere... |
| 00:03.07 |
starseeker |
Not that
there'd be too much point in modeling an non-existent collider in a
CAD system anyway - the Tevatron might be fun but so far I can't
scare up the blueprints from their website |
| 00:09.47 |
starseeker |
Humph. Web
page is at BNL, but not updated since 1995 apparently. |
| 00:15.12 |
*** join/#brlcad cad58
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| 00:24.00 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680294.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:37.02 |
IriX64 |
navigate by
stars man :) |
| 00:38.41 |
starseeker |
That would
probably work better ;-) |
| 00:38.53 |
IriX64 |
for certain
:) |
| 00:39.38 |
IriX64 |
might have to
pay for it |
| 00:39.54 |
starseeker |
Up front,
possibly. |
| 00:41.20 |
IriX64 |
probable |
| 00:42.37 |
starseeker |
Plus, in some
ways the Apollo achievements are to our civilization what the
Pyramids were to ancient Egypt - human achievement on a grand
scale |
| 00:43.31 |
starseeker |
The details
of how that was done (technically speaking) seem worth
preserving |
| 00:44.08 |
IriX64 |
there are
many places to find such info, try nasa jet propulsion
labs |
| 00:44.35 |
starseeker |
Oh, I know it
can be found - this guy has some of it: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm |
| 00:44.52 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 00:45.03 |
starseeker |
Unfortunately
it sounds like the only practical way to do it is to wade into the
physical archives themselves and start scanning |
| 00:45.17 |
starseeker |
and even
then, I don't know how much of it would be approved for public
release. |
| 00:45.22 |
IriX64 |
what are you
trying to acomplish |
| 00:45.46 |
starseeker |
Well, the
idea would be to fully document the technical details of the Apollo
system |
| 00:46.13 |
starseeker |
In other
words, to collect on a website all the information future
generations would need in order to build their own ;-) |
| 00:46.48 |
IriX64 |
one would
hope they would be capable of building something better
:) |
| 00:47.44 |
starseeker |
Oh, sure.
But it's sort of like how we like figuring out how they built the
pyramids - considering we can't figure that out real well and it's
just a bunch of rocks piled real high, I'd think putting a man on
the moon would be a little bit more difficult in retrospect
;-) |
| 00:49.09 |
starseeker |
It's probably
just my own odd curiosities |
| 00:49.13 |
IriX64 |
depends on
whose point of view you take, to those building the pyramids it
probably was quite difficult :) |
| 00:49.44 |
starseeker |
Agreed :-).
But I'd rather try that from scratch with no technological base
than try putting someone on the moon. |
| 00:50.46 |
IriX64 |
true, all
knowledge is usefull, so you want to document it true? |
| 00:51.17 |
starseeker |
Right :-). I
also have the same notions about computers - how do you go from a
bunch of inert metal to a modern computer? |
| 00:51.48 |
IriX64 |
quite the
projects, good luck :) |
| 00:51.52 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 00:52.01 |
starseeker |
It's more
just notions I have than anything |
| 00:52.14 |
IriX64 |
notions are
good |
| 00:52.17 |
starseeker |
The scale is
extremely large, and I doubt I will ever have the time to do
it |
| 00:52.36 |
IriX64 |
engage
helpfull people in it |
| 00:52.38 |
starseeker |
Maybe if I'm
blessed with good health and prosperity in retirement |
| 00:52.50 |
IriX64 |
not that i'm
volunteering :) |
| 00:52.54 |
starseeker |
That would
involve finding people as nutty as I am ;-) |
| 00:53.07 |
IriX64 |
true
:) |
| 00:54.03 |
starseeker |
Slightly more
possible is using Forth to bootstrap a Lisp environment completely
by hand :-). I may try that someday |
| 00:56.49 |
starseeker |
and bemusedly
notes he'd better get to work on household chores... |
| 00:56.59 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 01:11.44 |
IriX64 |
7.10.4 tells
me i have no X and no GL, 7.8.4 says i have both !?!?!? |
| 01:13.11 |
louipc |
imagine
spending your decades researching so you can build a robot that
will do all your chores for you so you can spend time doing other
things only to realise you've wasted all your years essentially
doing chores (via the robot) |
| 01:27.05 |
louipc |
I'd like to
know how the heck we were able to make more precise and accurate
machinery from less precise/accurate machinery |
| 01:58.46 |
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| 02:17.16 |
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| 03:21.05 |
IriX64 |
why won't
encarta95 install on vista64 ;) |
| 03:26.52 |
IriX64 |
I can safely
say "I can't support you anymore" to all those people who have my
old 8 and 16 bit software: |
| 03:28.25 |
IriX64 |
) |
| 03:33.45 |
IriX64 |
blah...
watcom 10.6a installed, now i have to convert all that 8 and 16 bit
schtuff to 32 bit :( |
| 04:56.19 |
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| 06:51.20 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-83-7.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:13.34 |
brlcad |
minute-ssh: I
saw the bus error, what were you doing that caused it? is it
reproducible and accessible from the web server or was it something
you were running on the command line? |
| 07:15.42 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
the intent wouldn't be to replace implicit evaluation with nurbs
evals (though you could) -- there are plenty of comparisons that we
can/would do to make sure that it's working, but it's already
pretty well understood that it'd be slower (nurbs evaluation is
naturally about an order slower) |
| 07:19.55 |
brlcad |
those BNL
codes don't seem particularly interesting to me other than noting
the four written by Reshetov probably long before he got into ray
tracing |
| 08:00.38 |
brlcad |
ahh,
intaval |
| 09:27.35 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:33.13 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (14 files in 3 dirs): initial checkin of
TNO's/IABG's INTAVAL to BRL-CAD converter |
| 09:39.42 |
brlcad |
hello
d_rossberg |
| 09:40.07 |
d_rossberg |
hi
brlcad |
| 09:41.05 |
brlcad |
glad to see
the converter in, looks good at a glance |
| 09:41.53 |
brlcad |
was that
developed by multiple people? |
| 09:41.59 |
d_rossberg |
i hope so, i
could not test the Linux build (autogen is missing some
Makefile.in) |
| 09:42.52 |
brlcad |
autogen.sh is
probably complaining because intaval wasn't added to configure.ac
;) |
| 09:43.04 |
d_rossberg |
yes, the base
was developed by TNO, and i aded some new primitives (it should be
complete now) |
| 09:43.10 |
brlcad |
ah, you did
add it |
| 09:43.13 |
brlcad |
hm |
| 09:43.27 |
brlcad |
anyone
specific at tno? |
| 09:43.40 |
brlcad |
or several
folks? |
| 09:43.45 |
d_rossberg |
autogen was
complaining about misc/debian |
| 09:43.45 |
brlcad |
just
curious |
| 09:44.24 |
brlcad |
ah, have you
done a update -dP in a while? |
| 09:44.50 |
brlcad |
have to run
that from time to time to pick up new dirs that are
added |
| 09:45.05 |
d_rossberg |
because of
TNO: i'm not shure, but i think Wim has something to do with
it |
| 09:45.29 |
brlcad |
would have
expected wim :) |
| 09:45.39 |
brlcad |
haven't
interacted with them in a while |
| 09:46.16 |
d_rossberg |
update dP: on
Windows always but not on Linux :-{ |
| 09:47.00 |
d_rossberg |
TNO is very
interested in interacting with the BRL-CAD people |
| 09:52.32 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: intaval/Makefile |
| 09:56.22 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
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| 10:05.04 |
brlcad |
seems to be
going ok so far, have to fix an include path issue (our problem in
configure.ac) |
| 10:06.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: search the opennurbs dir for
header files, it's required when compiling c++ sources that use
rtgeom.h (which uses brep.h, which requires
opennurbs.h) |
| 10:07.36 |
d_rossberg |
with update
-dP automake runs much better ... |
| 10:13.09 |
brlcad |
you'll
probably want that last commit too, include path
addition |
| 10:13.33 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am: ah, blasted
automake (or my assumptions of it). just include the opennurbs
cppflags here since c++ files are still in the
minority. |
| 10:13.36 |
brlcad |
just built
fine for me here and runs (mac os x) |
| 10:14.49 |
brlcad |
what do "dra"
and "tgf" stand for? |
| 10:16.43 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't make up var names, just
comment it out for now. as more C++ is integrated, it can be made
default |
| 10:17.44 |
*** part/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 10:21.00 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new tgf-g INTAVAL importer |
| 10:22.14 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg:
if you have names of specific people to credit in the news file,
please let me know -- i.e. others besides you and Wim |
| 10:22.36 |
brlcad |
have fun with
the canteening .. a bit early here for that :) |
| 10:25.56 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add PML to TNO's name. would preferably
reference the developers directly but don't know yet if there were
others coding besides Wim B. and Daniel R. working on
it |
| 10:26.51 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg:
and if you missed the question.. do you know what do "dra" and
"tgf" stand for? |
| 11:24.51 |
d_rossberg |
DRA: Defence
Research Agency (established by UK MoD) |
| 11:26.02 |
d_rossberg |
TGF: Target
Geometry File (it is how they are calling it) |
| 11:29.24 |
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| 11:54.30 |
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| 13:56.42 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:04.11 |
``Erik |
um, is that
related to tank-kill? |
| 14:06.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/readme.txt: annotate what DRA
and TGF stand for |
| 14:07.24 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg:
thx |
| 14:08.29 |
brlcad |
undoubtedly
"related" .. could even be the same format which would mean we now
have three converters for the same format that all do something
radically different .. |
| 14:08.56 |
brlcad |
from the look
of what daniel added though, the format is either considerably
different or it's a much better importer |
| 14:09.38 |
brlcad |
from what I
have gathered, intaval is the uk's version of covart, developed by
lockheed martin |
| 14:09.48 |
``Erik |
if that's the
case, someone should do some test runs and see if the old ones can
be links to the new one... uh, I don't volunteer :D |
| 14:09.58 |
brlcad |
whereas
tankill is the uk's version of muves |
| 14:10.22 |
d_rossberg |
brlcad: same
to you |
| 14:10.27 |
``Erik |
if I weren't
still hurting from the weekend, I'd be seriously breaking the repo
right now, but I don't wanna deal with being on the hook to fix it
:) |
| 14:10.28 |
brlcad |
former
version at least |
| 14:10.41 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: what
did you do on the weekend? |
| 14:10.56 |
``Erik |
imbibed.
significantly. |
| 14:11.29 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 14:11.55 |
``Erik |
and got to be
the "tool" in an argument with an old friend, and too many damn
video games |
| 14:13.25 |
``Erik |
and
negotiated a deal to go back to online dj'ing, I think |
| 14:14.14 |
``Erik |
this c++ fqa
is hilarious, yet so true |
| 14:14.30 |
``Erik |
http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ |
| 15:05.36 |
d_rossberg |
brlcad: what
do you recommend, if building without opennurbs should cpp sources
not include the opennurbs headers or should OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS
always be set |
| 15:17.15 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg:
did you see my commit earlier today? |
| 15:17.31 |
brlcad |
that's what
they were for |
| 15:19.13 |
brlcad |
it should
probably always be set since at least at the moment it's required
due to brep.h, but there's also presently only three instances of
C++ application code in the entire repository .. so it was just as
easy to add the OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS to the place where it was needed
(to intaval's Makefile..am) |
| 15:20.34 |
d_rossberg |
brlcad: i saw
your comment, but the converter won't compile |
| 15:20.35 |
brlcad |
once
nurbs/brep support is "complete", opennurbs will be required so I'd
more soon always add it than conditionally on opennurbs being
built |
| 15:20.57 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg:
you sure about that? .. are you up to date? |
| 15:21.12 |
brlcad |
06:13 <
CIA-27> BRL-CAD: brlcad * brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am:
ah, blasted automake (or my assumptions of it). just include the
opennurbs cppflags here since c++ files are still in the
minority. |
| 15:21.48 |
brlcad |
I built and
ran successfully on mac os x already after that fix |
| 15:22.37 |
d_rossberg |
i'm afraid
OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS won't help if they are empty |
| 15:22.46 |
brlcad |
ooooh |
| 15:22.49 |
brlcad |
you turn it
off |
| 15:23.11 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
nfg then :) |
| 15:23.22 |
d_rossberg |
on the other
side, there is a define WITH_OPENNURBS which could be used in
brep.h |
| 15:23.24 |
brlcad |
OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS should always be
set |
| 15:23.58 |
brlcad |
though if
someone wanted a system opennurbs, the flags would be
different |
| 15:24.50 |
brlcad |
WITH_OPENNURBS is an automake conditional,
not a define .. you'd have to add a define for it |
| 15:26.37 |
brlcad |
and that's
the one that will eventually go away when the implementation is
complete so that nurbs/brep support is consistently available in
the core |
| 15:27.41 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
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| 15:28.30 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: always set the path to the
openNURBS headers (C++) |
| 15:30.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, that'll
work for the time being, until there's a --with flag for pointing
to a system-installed opennurbs or until we make too many mods that
it has to build custom |
| 15:37.24 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: apparently not yet annotated, so make a
note of the stupid unable to find brl-cad message when rt
encounters a shader it doesn't recognize. the dynamic shader
loading code has some bad juju in it. |
| 16:32.16 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
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| 19:00.03 |
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| 19:11.16 |
*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm
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| 19:11.33 |
ewilhelm |
hi
all |
| 19:12.00 |
ewilhelm |
I'm getting
errors trying to build cvs from source on Debian Etch (gcc 4.1
and/or 3.4) |
| 19:12.20 |
ewilhelm |
libtool:
link: cannot find the library
`../../../src/libwdb/libwdb.la |
| 19:14.37 |
ewilhelm |
is this an
issue with CVS today or something on my end? |
| 19:17.24 |
ewilhelm |
it appears to
be something of a failed make dependency detection |
| 19:22.50 |
ewilhelm |
hmm, manually
stepping through the failing directories leads me to a libtcl-8.5
error |
| 19:25.12 |
*** join/#brlcad cad98
(n=5989494f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:28.24 |
ewilhelm |
ugh, I just
did cd tcl and tk and ran make install and then popd'd back through
the stack of failing dirs and `make` was fine |
| 19:49.28 |
*** join/#brlcad illethal
(n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 19:50.03 |
illethal |
Hello.. |
| 19:53.46 |
ewilhelm |
hi |
| 19:54.15 |
illethal |
I havn't used
BRL-CAD yet. I have a few questions maybe someone can
answer? |
| 19:55.08 |
ewilhelm |
maybe -- at
the moment I'm trying to figure out why cvs won't build from
gcc-4.1 |
| 19:55.20 |
ewilhelm |
so, I might
not be the best source of info :-D |
| 19:55.27 |
illethal |
Haha. |
| 19:55.31 |
illethal |
I get ya,
Linux. |
| 19:56.02 |
ewilhelm |
seems to be
mostly a make problem |
| 19:56.21 |
illethal |
What distro
are you on? |
| 19:56.37 |
ewilhelm |
Debian
Etch |
| 19:56.48 |
illethal |
Ah
k. |
| 19:57.08 |
ewilhelm |
seems to be
working, but a ridiculous amount of manual cd && make
stuff |
| 19:58.03 |
illethal |
That's what
makes Linux fun. |
| 19:58.19 |
ewilhelm |
nah, aptitude
is what makes it fun |
| 19:58.23 |
illethal |
Lmao |
| 19:58.34 |
illethal |
Yeah,
synaptic is by far my favorite package manager I've
used. |
| 19:58.57 |
illethal |
Does BRL-CAD
have a GUI? |
| 19:59.04 |
ewilhelm |
yep |
| 19:59.08 |
illethal |
Or do you
have to like make all the geo with math |
| 19:59.13 |
illethal |
K
awesome. |
| 19:59.17 |
ewilhelm |
that too
though |
| 19:59.28 |
illethal |
Ahhh, I've
never done that before. |
| 19:59.40 |
illethal |
I've been
playing around with 3D on my own for a few years, but not
CAD. |
| 19:59.45 |
ewilhelm |
last I played
with it, the command-line was much better at constructing geometry
than the mouse |
| 20:00.10 |
ewilhelm |
its a "shell"
(ala autocad's command-line) within the mged gui app |
| 20:00.17 |
illethal |
I probably
won't be able to figure out how to use it, but it seems
badass. |
| 20:00.32 |
ewilhelm |
so, it is
interactive -- rather than a sort of batch CLI app |
| 20:00.46 |
illethal |
I
see. |
| 20:00.49 |
ewilhelm |
you might
want to try it -- I haven't updated for a few years |
| 20:00.58 |
illethal |
So you can
also edit the object from the GUI, but you have to make it from the
CLI? |
| 20:01.25 |
ewilhelm |
you can use
the mouse, it just might be limited in expressiveness in some
areas |
| 20:01.36 |
illethal |
Ah. |
| 20:03.21 |
illethal |
Will it work
on Vista 64bits you think? |
| 20:03.36 |
illethal |
Not very many
programs do lol |
| 20:03.51 |
ewilhelm |
it has a Tk
gui, so maybe |
| 20:04.07 |
ewilhelm |
iirc, there
are binaries on the sourceforge page |
| 20:04.32 |
illethal |
Hmm, no
installer? |
| 20:04.46 |
illethal |
I think I'm
too noob to use BRL-CAD, =| |
| 20:09.52 |
*** part/#brlcad illethal
(n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:13.50 |
brlcad |
howdy
ewilhelm |
| 20:14.53 |
brlcad |
did you do a
parallel -j build? I've ran into issues with that several times in
the past where a failure gets through and the build tries to
continue, not stopping when it should |
| 20:15.52 |
brlcad |
other
automake/libtool bugs on nfs filesystems too |
| 20:20.34 |
*** join/#brlcad tarzeau
(i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch) |
| 20:24.00 |
ewilhelm |
brlcad: yep
-j 16 |
| 20:24.54 |
dtidrow_work |
16?
yikes |
| 20:25.02 |
ewilhelm |
distcc
:-D |
| 20:25.06 |
ewilhelm |
is there a
pastebot? |
| 20:25.08 |
dtidrow_work |
ah |
| 20:25.36 |
dtidrow_work |
so you
basically have a 'compile farm'? |
| 20:26.11 |
ewilhelm |
brlcad:
here's roughly what I ended-up doing |
| 20:26.13 |
ewilhelm |
<PROTECTED> |
| 20:27.15 |
ewilhelm |
the tcl (and
maybe tk) had to be installed or I would get
libtcl8.5.so |
| 20:27.23 |
ewilhelm |
...
errors |
| 20:28.14 |
ewilhelm |
then the
pushd was all just a matter of stepping through the src/libbu
src/libbn src/librt src/libwdb |
| 20:28.29 |
ewilhelm |
plus a
stop-off at libsysv on the way back |
| 20:30.05 |
ewilhelm |
then I had to
make install in src/other before src/ would work |
| 20:30.18 |
ewilhelm |
and make
install src before $top would make |
| 20:30.46 |
ewilhelm |
it seems like
it that last bit (and tcl) was more an LDFLAGS issue |
| 20:32.27 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 20:35.31 |
ewilhelm |
brlcad:
anyhow, it all got built and mged works |
| 20:35.51 |
ewilhelm |
but I can't
"zoom all" on my converted stl -- shouldn't `reset` do
that? |
| 20:40.31 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 20:48.37 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-077-146.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:50.40 |
ewilhelm |
ah -- 'draw
all' |
| 21:01.07 |
brlcad |
~bzpaste |
| 21:01.10 |
brlcad |
~bzpastebin |
| 21:01.11 |
ibot |
i guess
bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place
to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 21:01.26 |
brlcad |
just fyi
future ref |
| 21:01.32 |
brlcad |
or
this |
| 21:01.34 |
brlcad |
~pastebin |
| 21:01.34 |
ibot |
rumour has
it, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the
channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste,
or http://rafb.net/paste/, or
http://pastebin.com is usually
painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other
pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as
well |
| 21:01.38 |
brlcad |
but no
bot |
| 21:02.02 |
ewilhelm |
is there a
shaded view mode? |
| 21:02.09 |
brlcad |
almost
guaranteed, the parallel build is what caused the need for multiple
passes to get past the build error |
| 21:02.23 |
ewilhelm |
i.e. without
needing to raytrace |
| 21:02.35 |
brlcad |
there
is |
| 21:02.38 |
brlcad |
it
sucks |
| 21:02.51 |
brlcad |
that's some
of the stuff we're working on, it gets to core representation
issues |
| 21:03.02 |
brlcad |
part of the
brep/nurbs work, multiple representations |
| 21:03.08 |
ewilhelm |
not opengl
? |
| 21:03.16 |
brlcad |
so we can go
back and forth between explicit and implicit reps |
| 21:04.10 |
brlcad |
opengl is an
explicit geometric representation, brl-cad historically has only
dealt with implicit mathematical representations -- provides
greater accuracy, compactness, efficiency, few other
benefits |
| 21:04.22 |
brlcad |
but going
from implicit to explicit is very non-trivial |
| 21:04.52 |
brlcad |
so just
getting "polygons" out of an implicit rep reliably and quickly is
actually a pretty tricky feat |
| 21:05.13 |
ewilhelm |
yep |
| 21:05.14 |
brlcad |
and opengl
*only* deals with explicit polygonal representation
formats |
| 21:05.22 |
brlcad |
er,
s/polygonal// |
| 21:05.32 |
brlcad |
it does deal
with a few explicit spline surface formats |
| 21:05.37 |
brlcad |
but no
implicit formats |
| 21:06.12 |
ewilhelm |
iirc, autocad
maintains a dual list of objects<->polygons in the view
pipeline |
| 21:07.21 |
brlcad |
ewilhelm:
iirc, going back to some talks over a year ago, you might be
interested to know that I finally did get all of the STEP APs
scanned and OCR'd :-) |
| 21:07.46 |
ewilhelm |
neat --
wasn't a year ago at this point though :-D |
| 21:07.47 |
brlcad |
autocad deals
internally with explicit formats, spline surfaces |
| 21:07.58 |
brlcad |
it's dual-rep
is explicit spline to explicit poly |
| 21:08.04 |
brlcad |
which is
pretty trivial ;) |
| 21:08.23 |
ewilhelm |
isn't the CSG
in autocad "implicit mathematical"? |
| 21:08.44 |
brlcad |
the
operations are performed on explicits |
| 21:08.51 |
brlcad |
brb |
| 21:18.35 |
brlcad |
I'm in and
out, but to your question -- yes CSG operations are implicit (by
their very nature), but they're applying implicit operators to an
explicit geometry representation |
| 21:18.59 |
brlcad |
that's rather
different from applying implicit operators to implicit geometry --
there is no evaluated form |
| 21:19.59 |
ewilhelm |
ah,
ok |
| 21:48.24 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 22:13.32 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:15.05 |
*** join/#brlcad iMinute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 22:24.16 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron_
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 22:32.04 |
minute-ssh |
brlcad: It
was something I was running from the command line. And it is fully
reproducable. |
| 22:32.29 |
minute-ssh |
Right now I
am having internet trouble, hence why I am using SSH IRC as opposed
to home IRC. So I might not respond. |
| 22:32.36 |
brlcad |
ok |
| 22:32.56 |
minute-ssh |
brlcad: Do
you need any more info? |
| 22:33.06 |
brlcad |
yeah, what do
you want me to do about it? :) |
| 22:33.16 |
brlcad |
sounds like a
php bug :) |
| 22:33.19 |
minute-ssh |
Oh,
ok. |
| 22:33.36 |
brlcad |
i can see if
there's an update in ports |
| 22:33.49 |
brlcad |
i mean php
crashing is definitely a php bug |
| 22:33.52 |
minute-ssh |
Juding from
the response of ##php they suggested it was a bug in your
executable. Non-essential, I will file a PHP bu report. |
| 22:33.53 |
brlcad |
do you know
what causes it? |
| 22:34.14 |
brlcad |
that sounds
like their way saying "that php binary is buggy" |
| 22:34.20 |
brlcad |
which is a
bug in php |
| 22:34.29 |
brlcad |
just that it
might be fixed in a newer version |
| 22:34.48 |
minute-ssh |
I haven't
tracked down the exact cause, but I have tracked it down to my
custom MySQL class. |
| 22:35.37 |
brlcad |
you could
download/compile php and see if their latest sources still have the
problem |
| 22:36.35 |
brlcad |
we're on
5.2.1 at the moment, latest in ports seems to be 5.2.3 |
| 22:37.22 |
brlcad |
I do really
hate changing php unless there's a pressing need (you needing it
would be a good enough reason, though) |
| 22:38.03 |
brlcad |
because it
impacts the web install with apache and mod_php .. if the
compilation flags aren't right, things can get wonky |
| 22:45.35 |
minute-ssh |
ok |
| 22:45.35 |
minute-ssh |
dw |
| 22:46.17 |
minute-ssh |
It is
non-essential. |
| 22:52.39 |
minute-ssh |
I was doing
it yesterday, but got sidetracked. |
| 22:53.06 |
minute-ssh |
It is late
here now and I have to be getting on with something, so I will
check it out more tomorrow. |
| 00:40.24 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:42.00 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/hng0Fb41.html
<--- new kids on the block have a problem |
| 01:05.57 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/HmDN2c78.html
<--- found a critter in ltmain.sh |
| 01:12.55 |
``Erik |
heh, EBCDIC,
that's funny |
| 01:13.10 |
IriX64 |
not if you
work for ibm :) |
| 01:13.23 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 01:13.36 |
``Erik |
and the last
ibm that used that was what, the as400? |
| 01:13.47 |
IriX64 |
mv370
:) |
| 01:14.49 |
IriX64 |
doesn't solve
*my problem tho, but what the heck |
| 01:15.25 |
``Erik |
or
ebcdic->ascii... I don't remember anymore |
| 01:15.29 |
IriX64 |
why not
8086 |
| 01:16.29 |
IriX64 |
the glory of
unix=the iron doesn't matter :) |
| 01:17.04 |
``Erik |
um, it was
mostly 8086 crap, but 286 stuff was permitted |
| 01:17.11 |
``Erik |
for some
reason, 386 was not |
| 01:17.17 |
``Erik |
and this was,
like, '98 or '99 :( |
| 01:17.23 |
``Erik |
(my second
run at college) |
| 01:17.27 |
IriX64 |
was that
around at that time |
| 01:17.42 |
IriX64 |
ah it
was |
| 01:17.44 |
``Erik |
pentium was
around in like '95 |
| 01:18.10 |
IriX64 |
my memories
like yours too far back to be accurate :) |
| 01:18.24 |
``Erik |
I sure
enjoyed doing asm on r2k a lot more |
| 01:18.31 |
``Erik |
even though
it was just using 'spim' |
| 01:18.35 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 01:18.43 |
IriX64 |
don't know
r2k or is that r2d2 :) |
| 01:18.55 |
``Erik |
r2000, early
MIPS chip |
| 01:19.00 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 01:19.05 |
``Erik |
um,
predecessor to what you may've seen in an sgi |
| 01:19.20 |
``Erik |
the o2
bookend I have sports an r10k |
| 01:19.29 |
IriX64 |
im only
familiar with pc's and dec schtuff |
| 01:19.40 |
``Erik |
alphas were
almost good |
| 01:19.47 |
IriX64 |
still
are |
| 01:19.51 |
``Erik |
if they
woulda used the right endian, I coulda loved 'em :D |
| 01:19.56 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 01:20.08 |
``Erik |
they also did
very horrible things |
| 01:20.09 |
IriX64 |
hate
reversals do you |
| 01:20.32 |
IriX64 |
??
prioris |
| 01:20.37 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 01:20.42 |
``Erik |
shaped like a
coffee table |
| 01:20.48 |
IriX64 |
dont know
that one |
| 01:20.54 |
``Erik |
cabinet for
like 8 scsi drives, big honkin' backplane board |
| 01:21.02 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 01:21.03 |
``Erik |
the cpu and
memory boards popped into the backplane |
| 01:21.12 |
``Erik |
I had a dual
p133 cpu card |
| 01:21.20 |
IriX64 |
unibus
machine or omnibus |
| 01:21.31 |
``Erik |
and like an 8
slot 30pin simm card |
| 01:21.35 |
``Erik |
um,
eisa |
| 01:21.41 |
``Erik |
it was all
eisa |
| 01:21.45 |
IriX64 |
ah a dec pc
attempt |
| 01:21.48 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 01:21.50 |
``Erik |
... |
| 01:21.52 |
``Erik |
p133's... |
| 01:21.55 |
``Erik |
simm... |
| 01:21.58 |
IriX64 |
i
know |
| 01:22.12 |
``Erik |
cheaper than,
say, an sbus equiped machine... but... |
| 01:22.19 |
IriX64 |
never seen it
the rainbow tho i played with |
| 01:22.31 |
``Erik |
amusingly
enough, I couldn't get nt3.51 or nt4 to install on it... linux took
it though |
| 01:22.38 |
``Erik |
the alphas
were a hell of a lot better |
| 01:22.40 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 01:22.48 |
``Erik |
27xsoemthingsomething... |
| 01:23.03 |
IriX64 |
depends who
you talk to :) |
| 01:23.06 |
``Erik |
damn fast,
both in crunch per clock and in straight clock at the
time |
| 01:23.23 |
``Erik |
and I think
the nt on alpha had... real smart shit. |
| 01:23.41 |
IriX64 |
remember the
alpha with nt |
| 01:23.49 |
IriX64 |
nice
enoufgh |
| 01:23.50 |
``Erik |
I'm under the
impression (having never used it) that it had a machine code
translator that cached the converted machine code |
| 01:23.53 |
IriX64 |
enough |
| 01:24.12 |
``Erik |
so you could
slap an i386 program on it, run it, it'd sit and spin for a minute
the first time... then run just fine |
| 01:24.19 |
``Erik |
next time ya
launched it, it just popped right up and worked |
| 01:24.26 |
IriX64 |
i was happy i
could do serial port stuff with it |
| 01:24.57 |
``Erik |
oh, yeah, ya
got leenewx or fbsd, PIC chips, and a programmer? |
| 01:25.16 |
``Erik |
what's his
name is making a new release of picprog and wants people to test
the new serial timing code :D |
| 01:25.38 |
IriX64 |
seriously?
i'm a hobbiest :) |
| 01:26.15 |
``Erik |
this is free
software kinda targetting the hobbyist |
| 01:26.35 |
``Erik |
he has a
short lift of people he knew were interested (I maintain the fbsd
port, so I was on it) |
| 01:26.53 |
``Erik |
but I only
have a couple 16f88's and haven't done anything honestly noteworthy
with 'em |
| 01:27.06 |
``Erik |
other than
making LED's blink in patterns |
| 01:27.12 |
IriX64 |
don't have
the tools man |
| 01:27.20 |
``Erik |
software or
hw? |
| 01:27.24 |
IriX64 |
hw |
| 01:27.26 |
``Erik |
ah |
| 01:27.36 |
``Erik |
the
programmer I got was like $15, and the chips were like 2.50 a
pop |
| 01:27.47 |
``Erik |
the serial
cable was probably the most expensive part, I think it was $20
:( |
| 01:28.02 |
IriX64 |
got enough to
keep me busy but thanks |
| 01:28.09 |
``Erik |
but I already
had a breadboard and a huge box o' parts |
| 01:28.51 |
``Erik |
and a 5w
cheap power supply I made from the transformer out of a cheap
broken alarm clock, 4 diodes, 2 caps and a resistor :D |
| 01:29.01 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 01:29.09 |
``Erik |
oh, and a
candle to drop wax on the assembly once I was happy with the output
DC signal |
| 01:29.13 |
IriX64 |
zeners are
cheap |
| 01:29.31 |
``Erik |
yeah, btu I
didn't have any |
| 01:29.44 |
IriX64 |
:( |
| 01:29.52 |
``Erik |
<--
scratches his head and wonders how zeners would simplify a
bridge |
| 01:30.00 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 01:30.03 |
IriX64 |
wouldn't |
| 01:30.17 |
IriX64 |
just stating
that they're cheap :) |
| 01:30.22 |
``Erik |
the kind I
had were the cheapest, not even germaniums |
| 01:30.34 |
``Erik |
the ones that
you used to be able to get at radioshack in a package of like 100
for $2 |
| 01:30.41 |
``Erik |
back when
radioshack did that kinda thing |
| 01:30.44 |
IriX64 |
sliconized
mutational diodes were they |
| 01:31.00 |
``Erik |
I've have to
look... the cheapest on the rac |
| 01:31.03 |
``Erik |
per
unit |
| 01:31.06 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 01:31.21 |
``Erik |
I have way
more ceramic caps than electrolytics, too |
| 01:31.38 |
IriX64 |
teardrops too
are cheap |
| 01:31.41 |
``Erik |
my big dollar
stuff is mostly the 74xx series ic's I think |
| 01:32.02 |
IriX64 |
the hobbisyts
friend standard ttl |
| 01:32.12 |
``Erik |
thought I
have a few "weird" items, like a 10 bar LED, and a couple 8 piece
LED's |
| 01:32.22 |
``Erik |
555's and
556's, some 741's I think |
| 01:32.35 |
IriX64 |
stuff like
that gets costly too |
| 01:32.45 |
``Erik |
the LED's? or
the ic's? |
| 01:32.50 |
IriX64 |
leds |
| 01:32.52 |
``Erik |
the ic's are
ass cheap, common as hell |
| 01:32.57 |
IriX64 |
true |
| 01:33.02 |
``Erik |
yeah, I think
they were a few bucks each |
| 01:33.03 |
IriX64 |
not 741's
tho |
| 01:33.20 |
``Erik |
hum, I got a
box with several 741's for a couple bucks |
| 01:33.27 |
IriX64 |
555 are as
common as dirt as far as timer chips go |
| 01:33.29 |
``Erik |
have yet to
find a good use for an opamp like that |
| 01:34.17 |
``Erik |
I want to buy
an m68020 or something, some crud for memory, mebbe something to do
video signals... see if I can make me a little unix
machine |
| 01:34.24 |
``Erik |
and code up a
unix workalike on it :D |
| 01:34.27 |
IriX64 |
the memory
data book as usefull as the ttl data book |
| 01:34.39 |
``Erik |
I think the
20 introduced the mmu |
| 01:34.47 |
IriX64 |
i have
faichild what do you use |
| 01:34.53 |
IriX64 |
fairchild |
| 01:35.00 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 01:35.03 |
IriX64 |
for
reference |
| 01:35.09 |
IriX64 |
books
now |
| 01:35.11 |
``Erik |
um, these
days? the intarweb |
| 01:35.22 |
IriX64 |
i prefer
paper in my hand |
| 01:35.42 |
``Erik |
I used to
have, um, the little paperbacks with the grid pattern on the cover
that you could get at radioshack |
| 01:35.48 |
``Erik |
btu they're
at my parents |
| 01:35.57 |
IriX64 |
never used
those |
| 01:36.07 |
``Erik |
I have a
notebook with the pinouts for msot of those chips from a college
class |
| 01:36.15 |
``Erik |
hand drawn
notes from class |
| 01:36.15 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 01:36.25 |
``Erik |
I was
introduced to the 74xx's in a class |
| 01:36.42 |
``Erik |
and the 555
and 556 were just that damn common, that I put those in there,
too |
| 01:36.51 |
IriX64 |
i was
introduced to them in industry |
| 01:37.04 |
``Erik |
the 741, I
have a book from one of those ancient "101 projects in electronics"
kids |
| 01:37.04 |
``Erik |
kits |
| 01:37.14 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 01:37.17 |
``Erik |
too bad those
don't seem to exist anymore |
| 01:37.37 |
IriX64 |
i never
looked , really they stopped them |
| 01:37.55 |
``Erik |
I know the
chemistry kits are gone, I haven't SEEN an electronics
kit |
| 01:38.06 |
IriX64 |
blargh |
| 01:38.23 |
IriX64 |
kids used to
eat those up |
| 01:38.33 |
``Erik |
chemistry
kits were beaten down by politics, cuz, uh, some of those chemicals
might possibly create something dangerous if mixed just
right |
| 01:39.03 |
IriX64 |
heh and leave
it to a bright kid to "mix" them right :) |
| 01:39.41 |
``Erik |
<--
personally kinda thinks parents should be more involved and should
be more education *shrug* :/ |
| 01:40.32 |
``Erik |
and if'n ya
dick with anything ya don't know, understand it may be a little
dangerous and learn appropriate safety policies |
| 01:40.33 |
IriX64 |
truth |
| 01:40.50 |
IriX64 |
well its
making again, bbiab |
| 01:52.04 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:05.55 |
*** part/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 02:35.38 |
``Erik |
oh ho
ho |
| 02:35.41 |
``Erik |
how
ironical |
| 02:35.48 |
``Erik |
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/31/2256206 |
| 03:03.15 |
IriX64 |
heheh they
heard you |
| 03:58.06 |
``Erik |
starting
about 6 years ago. |
| 05:37.49 |
IriX64 |
man there's a
dnl without a preceding # in configure.in in tk/unix |
| 05:43.31 |
IriX64 |
the ' in
don't presents a problem |
| 06:18.26 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.8.4doesvista64.png
:) |
| 06:35.26 |
IriX64 |
nite
all |
| 08:16.27 |
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| 15:02.02 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: need all-am to be
dependent upon built_sources else someone doing a make install
without first running make will end up failing to generate the
COUNT, DATE, HOST, USER, PATH files |
| 15:02.22 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: merge from
head, need built_sources for all-am |
| 15:03.07 |
``Erik |
it ist time
to do the big honkin' join? |
| 15:05.38 |
brlcad |
not
yet |
| 15:05.53 |
brlcad |
not until the
remaining builds are posted |
| 15:06.03 |
brlcad |
(still need
irix and solaris) |
| 15:07.43 |
brlcad |
this will
possibly be the last irix release :( |
| 15:08.42 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:25.26 |
*** join/#brlcad nita
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| 15:25.53 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
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| 18:18.26 |
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| 18:46.52 |
dtidrow_work |
brlcad: yep,
IRIX is a dying OS :-\ |
| 18:47.12 |
dtidrow_work |
the company
isn't doing much better, afaik |
| 18:54.09 |
PrezKennedy |
people still
use IRIX? |
| 19:20.40 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:21.07 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/I3oL3a29.html
<---- have i reported this already? |
| 19:23.06 |
minute |
PrezKennedy:
HAHA |
| 19:31.48 |
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| 19:34.19 |
IriX64 |
pssst,
there's 9 dnl's in config.in in src/other/tk/unix. |
| 19:35.54 |
IriX64 |
some in tcl
too |
| 19:37.38 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/BEB5Wr15.html
<---- rtsrv duplicates bu_bomb too |
| 19:41.27 |
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| 19:42.29 |
IriX64 |
errr +o
:) |
| 19:52.55 |
``Erik |
um,
ok? |
| 19:53.07 |
IriX64 |
so eh
:) |
| 19:53.37 |
``Erik |
'dnl' is m4
for a line comment (do not list or something)... autoconf will
remove thos elines when the configure script is
generated |
| 19:53.59 |
IriX64 |
my build
platform is kinda weird ``Erik so i'm not sure.... |
| 19:54.03 |
``Erik |
<--
personally prefers shell comments as he looks through the generated
configure script more often than he'd like |
| 19:55.54 |
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| 20:17.16 |
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| 20:21.46 |
brlcad |
IriX64: it
*intentionally* duplicates bu_bomb as a scope override -- there's
some compiler flag amiss if it's complaining about it |
| 20:22.25 |
brlcad |
and the dnl's
are normal, part of m4 syntax |
| 20:22.36 |
brlcad |
there are
dnl's throughout our own top-level configure.ac |
| 20:24.36 |
IriX64 |
i'll check my
flags then thanks |
| 20:25.00 |
brlcad |
check the gcc
documentation |
| 20:25.11 |
IriX64 |
way ahead of
you :) |
| 20:26.31 |
IriX64 |
found
--allow-multiple-definition, will that do it |
| 20:30.01 |
brlcad |
maybe |
| 20:30.53 |
brlcad |
my gcc nor ld
has that option, so can't be sure |
| 20:31.11 |
brlcad |
if it's a
linker option, it'll need to be an LDFLAGS instead of a
CFLAGS |
| 20:34.15 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.1: clarify that the user must
specify the size if the image is not 512x512 |
| 20:47.49 |
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| 21:30.04 |
iMinute |
=auit |
| 21:30.07 |
iMinute |
oops |
| 21:30.09 |
iMinute |
wrong
channel |
| 21:36.48 |
brlcad |
damn
skippy! |
| 21:37.42 |
iMinute |
hmm? |
| 21:37.45 |
iMinute |
oh |
| 21:37.47 |
iMinute |
starfox |
| 21:37.47 |
brlcad |
nvr mind
:) |
| 21:37.49 |
iMinute |
hehe |
| 21:38.00 |
iMinute |
:D |
| 21:38.13 |
brlcad |
:D |
| 21:49.36 |
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| 21:51.29 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.c: warn if the output PNG
image dimensions are smaller than the input PIX image, related to
support request from mallory |
| 21:57.20 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 21:57.22 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
pix-png now warns the user if the PNG being created has image
dimenions smaller |
| 21:57.24 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: than
the PIX file that was given as input. The tool compares the size of
the |
| 21:57.26 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
input and output images, and reports the difference if there is
one; it also |
| 21:57.28 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
suggest what flags the user may need to use if the input has
recognizable image |
| 21:57.30 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
dimensions. This feature was implemented in response to a support
request from |
| 21:57.32 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
Mallory where he was confused by the black PNG image produced
(which happened to |
| 22:01.39 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged isn't updating the graphics window
with the new 8.5 tcl (sometimes) |
| 22:05.07 |
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| 22:26.50 |
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| 22:44.29 |
brlcad |
95k for just
under 4TB with support, without discounts |
| 22:45.50 |
IriX64 |
brlcad=deep
pockets? :) |
| 22:47.53 |
brlcad |
heh,
no |
| 22:48.03 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 22:52.13 |
starseeker |
The
unthinkable has happened - the STIX fonts have reached a Beta
release |
| 22:52.32 |
starseeker |
http://www.stixfonts.org/ |
| 22:52.34 |
brlcad |
mm.. $50k for
a 12TB decked out Mac |
| 22:52.52 |
starseeker |
Drool... |
| 22:53.15 |
starseeker |
(not that
BRL-CAD is likely to need the STIX fonts, I suppose...) |
| 22:53.27 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
hmm, interesting |
| 22:54.02 |
*** part/#brlcad ewilhelm
(n=ewilhelm@pool-71-111-49-155.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:54.11 |
starseeker |
That's
roughly the scientific equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever being
released ;-) |
| 22:54.12 |
brlcad |
that actually
is pretty interesting |
| 22:54.43 |
brlcad |
new modeler
is going to ship with fonts, sounds like stix might be what we'd
want to go with |
| 22:54.46 |
starseeker |
If you
download 'em, watch out for the zip file - it dumps everything into
the same directory as the zip file itself is in |
| 22:54.52 |
starseeker |
cool
:-) |
| 22:54.54 |
brlcad |
presuming
freetype can read them |
| 22:55.04 |
starseeker |
one would
hope :-) |
| 22:55.22 |
brlcad |
looks like at
least their "goal" is TTF's |
| 22:55.40 |
starseeker |
Yes - if it
doesn't do what you need it's probably a bug they want to hear
about |
| 22:56.17 |
brlcad |
bah, they
seriously need a "screenshots" page ... |
| 22:56.38 |
brlcad |
not a glyphs
page that requires me to install them |
| 22:57.39 |
starseeker |
agreed |
| 22:58.36 |
brlcad |
I have a
sampling of decent free fonts that I was going to use, but a
project dedicated to making good scientific fonts would be even
better |
| 22:59.33 |
brlcad |
mm.. fun,
7.10.4 Mac install of BRL-CAD is nearly 500MB |
| 22:59.36 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 22:59.39 |
brlcad |
granted,
that's with debugging symbols |
| 22:59.57 |
``Erik |
"t2" is of
the t1000 family? |
| 23:00.19 |
``Erik |
this time, we
dont' have to crush it, it's here to save us from the goopy one?
O.o :D |
| 23:01.11 |
brlcad |
we didn't
have to crush it the first time .. someone and someone else just
thought it'd be fun to set up and play with |
| 23:01.26 |
louipc |
wow my
install is just 96M |
| 23:01.40 |
brlcad |
louipc: is
that stripped? |
| 23:01.53 |
louipc |
well it
doesn't have tcl... |
| 23:01.53 |
``Erik |
stripped,
space optimized and 32 bit? |
| 23:02.11 |
louipc |
not stripped
but 32 bit yep |
| 23:02.16 |
``Erik |
tcl is a big
space consumer, all those extra man pages, tz files, tcl files,
... |
| 23:02.25 |
brlcad |
oooh, good
point, I was going to make these universal binaries... |
| 23:02.29 |
brlcad |
that'll make
them 2x |
| 23:02.34 |
``Erik |
um, libtool
is fond of stripping on install |
| 23:02.46 |
brlcad |
it's not
supposed to |
| 23:02.50 |
brlcad |
there's a
flag for stripping |
| 23:02.51 |
``Erik |
go into like
src/fb, type "make install" and see if it's getting the
-s |
| 23:03.02 |
``Erik |
I've seen it
'just happen' before... unless I'm completely outta it
:D |
| 23:03.36 |
``Erik |
the t5220
would be better on infrastructure than the apple, I
think... |
| 23:03.40 |
brlcad |
http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/quote.pdf
is kinda what I'm thinking of |
| 23:05.13 |
brlcad |
it would be
better of course, just not sure about it for the price point given
with that price diff there could even be <1hr on-site
support |
| 23:05.28 |
``Erik |
oh yeah, they
saddle up for that support |
| 23:05.59 |
brlcad |
i mean the
apple could be configured for <1hr for less than the
sun |
| 23:06.09 |
``Erik |
but, um, is
it to be a file server or a compute server? |
| 23:06.17 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
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| 23:06.18 |
brlcad |
the sun is
configured for same day iirc, woulda cost more for less |
| 23:06.31 |
``Erik |
<-- not
keen on mixing the two, kinda likes the seperation of
services |
| 23:07.12 |
brlcad |
it's neither
and both, needs to be big enough to fit all the data and fast
enough to not be annoying |
| 23:08.01 |
``Erik |
that'll give
us, what, ~3tb live at raid5? |
| 23:08.06 |
brlcad |
which is
probably a few TB, really fast disks, not sucky cpus .. bus
bandwidths, wide pipes |
| 23:08.22 |
``Erik |
or almost 2
at 0+1 ? |
| 23:08.28 |
brlcad |
yeah, about
that much |
| 23:08.44 |
``Erik |
are they
still windowed big endian chips? |
| 23:08.47 |
``Erik |
or didja
look? |
| 23:08.56 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
was something else I liked |
| 23:09.08 |
brlcad |
one of the
few big end servers remaining |
| 23:09.14 |
``Erik |
we'd be able
to retire the e420 when it goes out of service |
| 23:09.39 |
brlcad |
the new
"super" threading servers, able to run 64 threads simultaneously
without skipping a beat |
| 23:09.52 |
brlcad |
that would be
*really interesting to test out |
| 23:10.23 |
``Erik |
<-- likes
suns cuz he did sysadmin at a place where downtime was measured in
millions an hour :) the price was never an issue, so'z is not used
to really judging that angle |
| 23:10.42 |
``Erik |
we can always
apply for a 60 day test ride |
| 23:10.56 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:11.18 |
brlcad |
they also
undoubtedly paid 7 figures for their infrastructure :P |
| 23:11.38 |
``Erik |
when I lived
in a place where the entire mgmt chain cared about getting shit
done instead of politics, we had so many $'s in sun, they'd loan us
high end (like 4800, 6800) boxes for a year at a whack |
| 23:12.01 |
``Erik |
uhm, more
than 7... :) |
| 23:12.25 |
brlcad |
meant at
least 7 |
| 23:13.03 |
``Erik |
the, uh,
maintenance, staff, infrastructure, etc costs for the
admin/web/it/softwaredev was in the rough neighborhood of a billion
a year |
| 23:13.37 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
counting too much (for what is being compared) |
| 23:13.40 |
``Erik |
and it wasn't
seen as "productive" from the other companies, so under constant
attack to defend those $'s |
| 23:13.44 |
brlcad |
the orgs are
massively different in size too |
| 23:13.45 |
``Erik |
yeah, tha'ts
the only number I know |
| 23:14.07 |
``Erik |
I showed up
when I wanted, left when I wanted, more or less did what I wanted,
and got paid a lot more than I do here :) |
| 23:14.38 |
brlcad |
for any
reasonably small dev team, I think it's reasonable to try to stay
under 6 figures |
| 23:14.46 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 23:14.54 |
brlcad |
so then ..
uh, why'd you leave? :P |
| 23:15.18 |
brlcad |
those $$'s
were too much apparently ;) |
| 23:15.38 |
``Erik |
was a limited
contract to perm position, and bullshit politics lost me on the
pickup |
| 23:16.15 |
``Erik |
a cohort who
changed teams got the inside scoop from some people, the "you
didn't hear this, but" word was that I was seen talking to the
wrong people (the guys on my team who quit for google right after I
was jobless) |
| 23:17.17 |
brlcad |
no strip on
install |
| 23:17.25 |
``Erik |
I was in one
of those pesky rogue groups that doesn't play buy the corporate
rules and outshines everyone with success, and useless politicos
really hate that :D |
| 23:18.07 |
brlcad |
sounds like
how the cad team used to be |
| 23:18.31 |
``Erik |
hrm, should
be less than a 4x size bump for just 64b/uni over 32/PF... must be
the tickle |
| 23:18.52 |
``Erik |
there were
traces of that bubble when I got here :( |
| 23:18.58 |
brlcad |
i haven't
made the uni yet, just going by estimates I have from other
builds |
| 23:19.22 |
brlcad |
er, and that
should be about 2x .. not 4x |
| 23:19.30 |
brlcad |
i expect
about a 1GB install |
| 23:20.03 |
``Erik |
hrm, uni
should about be 2x... does... wait, you're on an i386 apple, not a
g5? |
| 23:20.13 |
``Erik |
does g5 have
variable width opcodes? |
| 23:20.16 |
brlcad |
2GB if I make
all four platforms (32 ppc, 64 ppc, 32 x86, 64 x86) |
| 23:20.44 |
``Erik |
is there 64b
x86 on apple? O.o :D |
| 23:20.53 |
brlcad |
oh, you got
4x off what it'd be stripped |
| 23:21.13 |
brlcad |
the strip
savings is more in tune with just how much symbolage there
is |
| 23:21.19 |
``Erik |
unix (2x) *
64b (2x) is what I was thinking |
| 23:21.33 |
``Erik |
er |
| 23:21.35 |
``Erik |
uni |
| 23:21.50 |
``Erik |
heh, damn
muscle memory :D I talk about unix way too much,
apparently |
| 23:22.12 |
brlcad |
yeah, 10.4
has 64bit support and 10.5 has it through and through |
| 23:22.29 |
``Erik |
I didn't
think the core duos had that support |
| 23:22.50 |
brlcad |
the
workstations are quad-core xeons |
| 23:23.04 |
``Erik |
at most, the
EMT64 memory hack, not 64b arithmatic and stuff |
| 23:23.06 |
brlcad |
laptpos are
core 2 duos |
| 23:23.22 |
``Erik |
okie, I
haven't looked at asm notions on the footrest yet |
| 23:23.31 |
brlcad |
either way,
it works -- i've compiled the 4-way uni binaries :) |
| 23:24.03 |
brlcad |
and they do
kick in on the new workstations if you go 64bit |
| 23:24.06 |
``Erik |
the 4 core
opteron fbsd box seems to compile faster, so'z I use it |
| 23:24.41 |
brlcad |
yeah, apple
has their own optimization loop that does "a little bit better"
than gcc's default, but takes way longer |
| 23:24.57 |
brlcad |
used to be
massive difference |
| 23:25.16 |
``Erik |
that, the
short&quick bsd land file ops seem significantly slower
(perhaps the mach layer) |
| 23:25.46 |
brlcad |
a compile on
my old laptop took an hour under mac os x, and 20 minutes on the
same hardware running yellow dog linux, same version of
gcc |
| 23:25.53 |
``Erik |
and I haven't
gotten the tuning to allow bunches of processes to run in parallel,
so'z I keep running into fork resource unavaiable crap when I try
to od things fast :D |
| 23:26.16 |
brlcad |
ah, you have
to bump up your limit |
| 23:26.20 |
brlcad |
it's not set
for devs by default |
| 23:26.31 |
``Erik |
now, if you
took, say, a huge single .c file and compiled it with -pipe, what
was the difference? :D |
| 23:26.43 |
``Erik |
no, at least,
not devs who work in terminal. |
| 23:27.08 |
brlcad |
it was way
slower even on single file -- that was one of the tests I
ran |
| 23:27.27 |
brlcad |
i don't
remember those exact numbers, but it was more than 2x at
O3 |
| 23:27.48 |
``Erik |
and O0?
:D |
| 23:27.50 |
brlcad |
and after
talking to some of the apple devs, they commented on their custom
optimization loop |
| 23:28.39 |
brlcad |
they got a
couple of the old mipspro compiler guys as well, put them to
work |
| 23:29.35 |
brlcad |
you should
check your sysctl kern.maxproc -- it should be > 512 |
| 23:33.31 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 23:33.41 |
``Erik |
I think I
made it 4x, and that alleviated it a LITTLE |
| 23:33.50 |
``Erik |
but I think
that was still fairly shy of 512 |
| 23:42.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 23:52.02 |
``Erik |
mebbe it's
maxprocperuid that's got me down |
| 00:11.10 |
*** join/#brlcad illethal
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| 00:13.08 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 00:13.08 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
don't just check whether the option is set to the default -- check
if it's been |
| 00:13.08 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: set
at all so that you can use --enable-all with --disable options that
may be |
| 00:13.08 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
default 'no' already. ran into this situation trying to disable
opennurbs |
| 00:13.09 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
(which was already default off). |
| 00:16.28 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 00:17.24 |
IriX64 |
louipc, got
anymore screenshots? i really liked that last one. |
| 00:20.33 |
Supaplex |
is it your
archnemesis? |
| 00:20.51 |
IriX64 |
mayhap a
dream :) |
| 00:21.17 |
IriX64 |
a freaking
system that works :) |
| 00:22.25 |
Supaplex |
I hear paper
and pencil are pretty reliable |
| 00:22.55 |
IriX64 |
a system
where libraries aren't called *.dll.a :( |
| 00:23.58 |
``Erik |
<-- pretty
happy with the mac/fbsd combo, thinks brlcad is more or less in the
same groove |
| 00:24.25 |
IriX64 |
mmmm leopard
beckons me if i switch |
| 00:26.25 |
IriX64 |
man you guys
are adamant about copying being untouchable aren't you |
| 00:27.02 |
``Erik |
? |
| 00:27.27 |
IriX64 |
autogen tries
to copy COPYING and it gets permission denied |
| 00:27.38 |
``Erik |
it tries to
copy OVER COPYING |
| 00:27.40 |
``Erik |
which'd be
BAD |
| 00:27.45 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 00:37.41 |
IriX64 |
i should read
that someday, but why i don't plan to give anyone a
copy |
| 00:42.29 |
yukonbob |
*BSD++ |
| 00:54.39 |
louipc |
IriX64:
http://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.jpg
that's how I usually work. confusing huh? I should probably get a
1px border around the windows |
| 00:56.53 |
Supaplex |
wahou, I'm
immortalized in a screenshot :D |
| 00:57.45 |
louipc |
I usually
don't keep them around for -too- long :P |
| 00:58.09 |
Supaplex |
:) |
| 00:59.02 |
louipc |
IriX64: yeah
man you should try linux or bsd or something, get a cheap computer
second hand or something if you don't want to mess with your main
machine |
| 00:59.57 |
IriX64 |
nice
shot |
| 01:00.08 |
IriX64 |
maybe ill
switch |
| 01:00.34 |
louipc |
it took me a
long time to completely switch |
| 01:00.50 |
IriX64 |
and now
you're happy? |
| 01:00.50 |
louipc |
maybe 3 yrs
trying out various distros |
| 01:00.58 |
louipc |
yeah now I'm
totally good |
| 01:01.15 |
IriX64 |
ill give it
serious thought |
| 01:09.20 |
IriX64 |
mmmm when i
engage serious mode nothing happens ;) |
| 01:14.46 |
``Erik |
thinking hard
*grunt* |
| 01:20.46 |
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| 01:35.25 |
IriX64 |
``Erik, mines
more like *blank* :) |
| 01:35.48 |
IriX64 |
hate firing
blanks :) |
| 01:36.16 |
louipc |
better than
drawing one |
| 01:39.31 |
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| 01:45.59 |
IriX64 |
tried but my
pencil can't handle that :D |
| 01:48.44 |
IriX64 |
what are you
doing looking between my legs :) |
| 01:54.37 |
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| 04:13.40 |
brlcad |
yeesh |
| 04:16.29 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 7 dirs): minor tweaks,
preventive null terminating of strncmp'd strings |
| 04:22.16 |
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| 04:42.36 |
louipc |
yeah what's
up with freenode |
| 04:56.51 |
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| 04:56.54 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): the 'wall' procedural
geometry generator tool was renamed to 'masonry' so as to not
conflict with the commonly named 'wall' linux tool that writes a
message to all users. source renamed from wall.c to
masonry.c |
| 04:57.55 |
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| 05:11.45 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 2 dirs): rename the 'hd' hexdump
utility to 'hex' as well given the similar linux facilities and
cause for conflict/confusion. source renamed from hd.c to hex.c
(and manpage in kind) |
| 05:11.46 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: renamed wall and hd commands, someone(tm)
should review what else other than our libs that might be common
conflict cases where we don't have a justifiable basis/need to keep
the name |
| 05:11.46 |
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| 05:36.11 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (2 files in 2 dirs): obliterate BRL.MIL
references |
| 05:42.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (sh/cray.sh src/fb/cell-fb.1 src/lgt/lgt.1
src/libfb/libfb.3): more brl.mil references begone |
| 05:46.05 |
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| 05:55.27 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (5 files in 4 dirs): more address updating
to avoid mil domain |
| 05:59.56 |
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| 14:28.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: don't choke here if
openNURBS is disabled! |
| 14:35.02 |
``Erik |
silly coder,
"linebuffer[YYLMAX} = '\0';" just don't make sense :D |
| 14:40.54 |
brlcad |
oop |
| 14:41.30 |
``Erik |
must be a
little burdened at the moment |
| 14:42.04 |
brlcad |
it's been
having issues for over a day now |
| 14:42.15 |
brlcad |
depends which
slot we get |
| 14:48.47 |
``Erik |
ya in today?
dave was in my office at 9 trying to organize a lunch
posse |
| 14:49.03 |
``Erik |
he was a bit
miffed that we didn't take him yesterday, heh |
| 14:50.29 |
``Erik |
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-bird-cat-cage.jpg |
| 14:52.42 |
brlcad |
yeah, i'm
in |
| 14:56.05 |
``Erik |
in the
office, or in for lunch? :) |
| 14:56.52 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 14:57.18 |
``Erik |
heh, I'm not
a c++ programmer, I don't dig unresolvable ambiguity :D |
| 15:00.04 |
``Erik |
hum, cool,
segfaults in mged |
| 15:04.50 |
brlcad |
I was able to
replicate the rt crash with a simple while loop on moss, on my
laptop last night |
| 15:05.03 |
``Erik |
get a good
-ggdb core file? |
| 15:05.19 |
brlcad |
while [ $?
-ne 0 ] ; do rt -F/dev/null db/moss.g all.g ; done |
| 15:05.35 |
brlcad |
not really,
same stack trace I always get |
| 15:05.44 |
``Erik |
erm |
| 15:05.52 |
brlcad |
I mean, I
have the trace, it's just not really insightful |
| 15:05.59 |
``Erik |
while true ;
do rt ... |
| 15:06.00 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:06.28 |
``Erik |
but it was a
-ggdb build, so you have all the arguments at every frame and can
inspect them? or was the stack blown? |
| 15:07.15 |
brlcad |
while true !=
while [ $? -ne 0 ] |
| 15:08.00 |
brlcad |
stops as soon
as it crashes |
| 15:08.22 |
``Erik |
o |
| 15:08.35 |
``Erik |
while true ;
do ./rt ... || break; done :D |
| 15:08.53 |
``Erik |
that's kinda
my normal form *shrug* |
| 15:09.12 |
``Erik |
of course, I
build the command funny, I'm a vim user... so -o vi |
| 15:09.41 |
brlcad |
which is of
course no different :P |
| 15:09.48 |
brlcad |
other than 11
chars vs 12 chars |
| 15:10.06 |
``Erik |
of course,
more than 10 ways to skin a cat |
| 15:10.54 |
``Erik |
but I'd
probably write the one time rt cmd, run it to make sure it does
what I expect, then put the while true loop on it... then hop to
the end and go "oh yeah, gotta break those" and put in the ||
break |
| 15:11.09 |
``Erik |
rabid kbd
monkey powers, ACTIVATE! |
| 15:11.42 |
``Erik |
<-- ain't
sayin' one is right or wrong, just noting his usual approach is
different due to different ways of building "complex" commands
:D |
| 15:11.51 |
``Erik |
I'm "special"
O.o |
| 15:12.07 |
``Erik |
I'm also
becoming a bit annoyed at all these mged crashes |
| 15:13.03 |
brlcad |
fix
em! |
| 15:13.33 |
brlcad |
it's actually
debuggable if you run with -f .. |
| 15:15.21 |
``Erik |
and with -c,
which is what I'm ding |
| 15:15.23 |
``Erik |
doing |
| 15:16.01 |
``Erik |
less mouse
action with -c :D |
| 15:32.30 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:33.30 |
``Erik |
that's a old
but |
| 15:33.31 |
``Erik |
bug |
| 15:33.45 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: add a break; to the -p
option (been missing since the original import from GSI,
wow) |
| 15:38.10 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
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| 15:43.22 |
brlcad |
minute: I see
you noticed the rate that your backups were growing :) |
| 15:43.36 |
minute |
yeah |
| 15:44.05 |
minute |
I realised
they were pretty pointless since there are other systems in place.
So instead I will just run one before everytime I modify the
code. |
| 15:44.38 |
brlcad |
could add
rotation so they don't accumulate, just keep the last
few |
| 15:45.27 |
minute |
Possibly, I
am working on a MySql\MediaWiki XML\Files backup system for a
different project so once finished with that I will see about using
it here or something maybe. |
| 15:46.49 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: dynamically calculate the size
that the DMG needs to be (since the 7.10.4 release already
surpassed the 250MB barrier) .. and give me at least a minute to
find that background image :) |
| 15:46.57 |
brlcad |
mmm.. I've
always wanted to dump out mediawiki content as doxbook xml so it
could be stored in CVS |
| 15:47.06 |
brlcad |
and
bidirectionally edited |
| 15:47.42 |
minute |
I know
MediaWiki can be dumped as XML, but I don't suppose it would be
doxbook compatible. |
| 15:48.02 |
brlcad |
could be ...
:) |
| 15:48.38 |
minute |
I'll look
into it if you like. |
| 15:48.43 |
minute |
TBH it
wouldn't be too much difficulty to write a simple parser since it
is going to be similar. |
| 15:48.48 |
brlcad |
that'd be
awesome |
| 15:48.54 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
format is really pretty simple |
| 15:49.19 |
brlcad |
there's not
really any aspect of mediawiki markup that I can think of that
doesn't directly translate to docbook |
| 15:49.29 |
minute |
Cool, I'll
have a look and see if I can find a way. |
| 15:49.57 |
brlcad |
I know these
guys worked out some of the reverse path already for
blender |
| 15:49.57 |
brlcad |
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta/DocBook_to_Wiki |
| 15:50.32 |
brlcad |
ooh, haven't
seen this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DocBook_XML_export |
| 15:51.09 |
minute |
"Note: this
is a proposal page opened some years ago. No such feature exists in
MediaWiki presently." |
| 15:51.33 |
brlcad |
yeah, though
it's pretty much exactly what I'm referring to :) |
| 15:51.43 |
minute |
ahh |
| 15:52.07 |
minute |
Which DocBook
version are you using? |
| 15:52.10 |
brlcad |
that coupled
with the docbook-to-mediawiki and you'd have an exceptionally
powerful round-trip system |
| 15:53.13 |
brlcad |
i used 4.5
for years as it was the latest stable, but 5.0 is pretty much
"done" and usable now |
| 15:53.17 |
brlcad |
with some
better features |
| 15:53.24 |
brlcad |
xml version,
not the sgml version |
| 15:53.37 |
minute |
yeah, sgml is
weird |
| 15:54.53 |
minute |
How is LDAP
going, btw? |
| 15:55.01 |
brlcad |
wow, the
make_pkg and make_dmg scripts I wrote over a year ago still work
pretty much without a hitch |
| 15:55.13 |
minute |
hehe |
| 15:56.00 |
brlcad |
it's not gone
anywhere since we went into release mode a week and a half ago ..
I've been busy building and posting binaries, writing
announcements |
| 15:56.17 |
brlcad |
still not
done, but the release has to go out |
| 15:56.39 |
brlcad |
ldap is still
next on my list though |
| 15:56.54 |
minute |
ahh,
ok |
| 15:56.59 |
brlcad |
it really is
the only thing remaining now other than testing the site on IE6 wo/
javascript |
| 15:57.15 |
minute |
I'll do that
now. |
| 15:57.51 |
minute |
Ok, it is
bad. |
| 15:58.16 |
brlcad |
yeah, I just
kicked it off here.. wow |
| 15:58.35 |
brlcad |
i must have
added some bad css or something |
| 15:59.11 |
minute |
mm |
| 15:59.18 |
minute |
Or IE is just
crap ;) |
| 15:59.21 |
minute |
Anyway... |
| 15:59.30 |
minute |
I'll run it
through some validators then take a look at the code. |
| 16:01.13 |
PrezKennedy |
IE is the
best! |
| 16:03.42 |
PrezKennedy |
its like ive
gone to the dark side or something |
| 16:04.44 |
brlcad |
minute:
here's what I see presently: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/ie6.jpg |
| 16:05.01 |
minute |
Same
here |
| 16:06.20 |
brlcad |
notably, no
header images (which actually isn't that bad.. :), and some of the
bottom bezel on the boxes are bad (oddly only some), the two
incorrectly expanded menu/search sections, the missing upper search
bar, and the massive fonts (which I cold probably live
with) |
| 16:08.11 |
brlcad |
weird.. it
even got the correct hilight/shadow outline on the bottom search
bezel and on the upper menu, but not on the other
two... |
| 16:08.40 |
brlcad |
interesting
because the two that are right, I did "by hand", the other two
weren't |
| 16:09.16 |
brlcad |
mm.. 400MB
mac universal binary installer.. |
| 16:09.20 |
brlcad |
biggest
yet |
| 16:10.29 |
``Erik |
um, since
media wiki stores in a mysql database, you could just mysqldump and
put the results into RCS or CVS O.o |
| 16:10.40 |
minute |
why? |
| 16:10.54 |
minute |
What would be
the point in that :S |
| 16:11.02 |
``Erik |
um, small
footprint backups? |
| 16:11.06 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 16:11.16 |
minute |
Ahh,
ok. |
| 16:11.16 |
``Erik |
that can be
edited and loaded, if necessary |
| 16:11.28 |
brlcad |
i don't want
backups, I want complete bidirectional editing |
| 16:11.29 |
``Erik |
sorry,
talking while catching up, and people keep walking in and asking
questions |
| 16:11.35 |
``Erik |
dump, edit,
load |
| 16:11.35 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 16:11.52 |
minute |
``Erik: The
trouble is passwords, email address, etc. |
| 16:11.57 |
brlcad |
so I can edit
**in a sensible format** with a text editor, or in
mediawiki |
| 16:12.19 |
``Erik |
use a text
editor that can make sql sensible? :> *duck* |
| 16:12.23 |
brlcad |
editing mysql
dumps is not what I'd consider a usable format |
| 16:13.25 |
brlcad |
not for your
average editing-person at least, docbook is pushing it but it at
least has really good semantic structure and rich
markup |
| 16:13.48 |
brlcad |
pretty sure
there's already an emacs mode for that ;) |
| 16:14.05 |
minute |
brlcad: Is
there some sort of caching on your server? |
| 16:14.09 |
``Erik |
for editing
live sql fields in a running rdbms? O.o |
| 16:14.11 |
``Erik |
skeery |
| 16:14.21 |
brlcad |
minute: what
do you mean? |
| 16:14.25 |
brlcad |
for the
website? |
| 16:14.26 |
``Erik |
yup, emacs is
a dandy os, only thing missing is a decent editor O:-) |
| 16:14.28 |
minute |
Yeah |
| 16:14.40 |
brlcad |
ah, drupal
caches results to non-registered users |
| 16:14.41 |
brlcad |
log
in |
| 16:14.55 |
minute |
mm |
| 16:14.57 |
``Erik |
rt matrices
are the same order as opengl, right? |
| 16:15.05 |
brlcad |
they only get
updates once every few hours iirc |
| 16:15.13 |
brlcad |
it's
configurable (and can be turned off while you're testing if you
want) |
| 16:15.23 |
minute |
Ahh, it was
chaching in MediaWiki and Drupal. |
| 16:15.24 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
yeah |
| 16:15.25 |
``Erik |
"C natural"
right hand, etc? |
| 16:15.45 |
``Erik |
opposed to
the mathematical "fortran natural", or the abhorrent directx left
hand, ... :D |
| 16:15.50 |
brlcad |
do you have a
solaris build of 7.10.4 on hand anywhere? |
| 16:16.17 |
brlcad |
directx can
suck my left-handed nut |
| 16:16.28 |
``Erik |
um, no, I had
a HEAD build from a few weeks ago, um |
| 16:16.35 |
``Erik |
d'no if a
temp reaper ate it |
| 16:16.36 |
brlcad |
darn |
| 16:16.55 |
brlcad |
widest is
being a lil bitch on 7.10.4 for me |
| 16:17.02 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 16:17.09 |
``Erik |
using the GNU
toolchain, or the ucb? |
| 16:17.20 |
brlcad |
gnu |
| 16:17.44 |
brlcad |
I tried
it |
| 16:17.52 |
``Erik |
no
go? |
| 16:18.23 |
brlcad |
it booted up
the install disk, booted solaris with good ol cde and did the
install, but then when it was all done installing... |
| 16:18.27 |
brlcad |
the installed
image wouldn't boot |
| 16:18.42 |
brlcad |
some issue
finding the disk |
| 16:18.49 |
brlcad |
probably
parallels-specific |
| 16:19.12 |
brlcad |
don't
remember what happened with qemu |
| 16:19.21 |
minute |
Mmm, the code
for the website is in a really really bad shape. |
| 16:19.54 |
brlcad |
minute: html
errors? |
| 16:20.12 |
minute |
Yeah, it is
just awful in general. Mainly my fault though. |
| 16:20.30 |
minute |
s/general/genreal aswell |
| 16:20.43 |
brlcad |
I helped some
I'm sure :) |
| 16:20.51 |
minute |
:P |
| 16:21.02 |
brlcad |
i mean,
helping making it worse :) |
| 16:21.18 |
minute |
Yeah |
| 16:21.33 |
brlcad |
you're not
supposed to agree! |
| 16:21.40 |
minute |
hehe |
| 16:21.41 |
brlcad |
j/k |
| 16:22.41 |
brlcad |
the more I
got into the css, the more I realized that it wasn't quite set up
to work well with drupal's theming and content
management |
| 16:23.02 |
brlcad |
but! .. it
does/did work, so it's something |
| 16:23.10 |
``Erik |
http://validator.w3.org/ http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ |
| 16:23.13 |
``Erik |
teh
yayz |
| 16:24.08 |
brlcad |
7 errors and
98 warnings |
| 16:24.09 |
minute |
sure |
| 16:24.37 |
brlcad |
looks like
one might even be a typo in the .css file |
| 16:25.12 |
brlcad |
er, three of
them even |
| 16:25.28 |
brlcad |
that's
probably why ie6 is throwing a fit |
| 16:25.29 |
PrezKennedy |
brlcad, the
construction company im contracted out to is doing the APG 715 Gate
upgrade |
| 16:25.40 |
brlcad |
nifty |
| 16:25.56 |
minute |
Non the less
a small rewrite would be nice. |
| 16:26.36 |
brlcad |
yeah, would
tighten up the css, could remove the fluff that's not needed any
more |
| 16:26.44 |
brlcad |
lots of
duplication in there now |
| 16:26.45 |
minute |
And that
PHP... |
| 16:26.52 |
minute |
YUCK is an
understatement. |
| 16:27.03 |
brlcad |
especially
now that the "look" is pretty much settled now |
| 16:27.57 |
minute |
Also I need
to figure out some way to integrate the skin with gallery2, but
gallery2 uses crappy TPL. |
| 16:28.10 |
brlcad |
you have a
pretty decent integration going now I thought |
| 16:28.23 |
brlcad |
one style
that applied to both nicely |
| 16:28.24 |
minute |
With
what? |
| 16:28.27 |
minute |
yeah |
| 16:28.31 |
brlcad |
good
separation of the header, footer, etc |
| 16:28.35 |
minute |
ahh |
| 16:29.08 |
*** join/#brlcad PK (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 16:30.09 |
minute |
The thing
that is making this really tedious is the fact that I can't use
Notepad++ or Notepad2 while editing the site due to the sudoing
thing - I wish there was a way to fix that. |
| 16:30.21 |
minute |
Well, not fix
as such. |
| 16:30.37 |
brlcad |
howso? |
| 16:30.43 |
brlcad |
sudo -u www
-s |
| 16:30.52 |
minute |
But that
doesn't work with SFTP. |
| 16:31.00 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 16:31.26 |
brlcad |
hm, well if
your umask is set, can just upload as you |
| 16:31.39 |
minute |
hmm |
| 16:31.45 |
minute |
Maybe there
is a way afterall. |
| 16:32.33 |
brlcad |
try now,
fixed the mode on all the files so group perms work |
| 16:32.46 |
brlcad |
a bunch were
622 |
| 16:33.05 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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| 16:33.56 |
minute |
Oh
wow. |
| 16:33.57 |
minute |
It
works. |
| 16:33.59 |
minute |
Thanks! |
| 16:36.48 |
minute |
Nope |
| 16:37.20 |
minute |
hmm |
| 16:39.05 |
minute |
brlcad: Are
you doing anything to the site ATM? |
| 16:49.11 |
minute |
Total rewrite
it is, then. |
| 16:49.19 |
minute |
Could be
worse. |
| 16:54.25 |
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| 18:05.44 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fchmod.c: Initial
check-in. |
| 18:09.31 |
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| 18:55.14 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: rt_unprep() was using paths
(i.e. a struct bu_ptbl) without being initialized. In fact, paths
is never initialized. I'm guessing the intent was to use
objs->paths. |
| 19:06.06 |
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| 19:06.06 |
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| 19:06.06 |
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| 19:10.42 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fbserv_obj.h: The fbsl_fd and fbsc_fd
member types should be int. |
| 19:14.35 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: If windows call
closesocket() instead of close(). |
| 19:16.08 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: The c_fd of struct client
should be int. |
| 19:17.32 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: Using bu_fchmod() instead of
fchmod. |
| 19:17.58 |
brlcad |
minute-ssh:
not doing anything with the site atm |
| 19:18.03 |
brlcad |
nor back when
you asked :) |
| 19:19.19 |
brlcad |
lemme know if
you have other permission problems, I just made you the owner of
all the files |
| 19:19.24 |
brlcad |
(all the skin
files) |
| 19:20.56 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: No longer calling close()
in drop_client() because the call to pkg_close() already does
this. |
| 19:23.12 |
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| 19:26.31 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (archer/Archer.tcl
lib/RtControl.tcl): Apparently Itk's Toplevel widget now wants the
-menu option directly. |
| 19:30.12 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob found/fixed a memory deallocation bug
in the raytracers |
| 19:33.41 |
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| 19:33.43 |
brlcad |
MinuteElectron: lemme know if you need me
to repeat what I'd said about the site :) |
| 19:34.10 |
MinuteElectron |
Still in my
scrollback, but I am currently rewriting the skin thing so it might
be gone later. |
| 19:34.33 |
brlcad |
okay, just
said "no, not doing anything" and that you now own the
files |
| 19:34.47 |
brlcad |
lemme know if
you have any other permission problems |
| 19:35.05 |
MinuteElectron |
Ahh, so you
saw the mess I got myself into then? |
| 19:35.05 |
brlcad |
that
shouldn't ever be a "problem" .. what is in place just works well
for other projects |
| 19:35.23 |
MinuteElectron |
Yeah |
| 19:35.38 |
MinuteElectron |
I think I
have worked out how the system works now. |
| 19:35.40 |
brlcad |
no, I
hadn't |
| 19:35.45 |
MinuteElectron |
Oh,
ok. |
| 19:35.46 |
MinuteElectron |
nm |
| 19:35.47 |
brlcad |
just your
comments |
| 19:35.51 |
MinuteElectron |
ok |
| 19:36.37 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: Using bu_fchmod() instead of
fchmod(). |
| 19:40.17 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libregex/regerror.c: Reformat
regerror() slightly. |
| 19:42.40 |
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CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Mods to expose
png_read_destroy() and png_write_destroy(). |
| 19:44.38 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: Update to
4.0.2 |
| 19:49.29 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: If windows call
closesocket() instead of close(). Mods to use PKG_SEND with the
proper number of parameters. Mods to have pkg_open() return the
correct type on error. |
| 19:50.58 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fb-pix.c fb-png.c): Using bu_fchmod()
instead of fchmod(). |
| 19:57.27 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/generic/tkFileFilter.c:
Initialize a few variables. |
| 19:58.46 |
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CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/ (tclExecute.c tclInt.h
tclIntDecls.h): Miscellaneous mods for compiling on
Windows. |
| 20:02.35 |
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| 20:30.00 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/haha.png
:) |
| 20:40.00 |
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| 20:50.55 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mysystem.png
<----- louipc this ones what im running |
| 20:50.59 |
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| 21:01.48 |
minute |
IriX64:
Ultimate? |
| 21:01.51 |
minute |
Did you buy
that yourself? |
| 21:02.07 |
minute |
And on 895MB
of RAM, woah. |
| 21:11.01 |
``Erik |
yeah, it was
released after penultimate |
| 21:20.54 |
IriX64 |
paid good
money for this thing, it's damn well gonna do what I want
:) |
| 21:21.27 |
IriX64 |
1gig of ram,
the cheesy motherboard steals 128 meg for the onboard video
:( |
| 21:22.13 |
IriX64 |
how to speed
up windoze, throw memory and money at it :) |
| 21:23.50 |
dtidrow_work |
yep |
| 21:24.30 |
IriX64 |
it's building
brlcad7.10.4 even as we speak though |
| 21:24.49 |
brlcad |
you should
make an installation tarball for 7.10.4 so others can try it
out |
| 21:24.55 |
brlcad |
(for
cygwin) |
| 21:25.15 |
IriX64 |
just the
binaries you mean? |
| 21:25.39 |
IriX64 |
id have to
include the dll's but it could be done |
| 21:25.58 |
brlcad |
whatever is
needed so that it runs |
| 21:25.58 |
IriX64 |
if i get it
to compile ill do that |
| 21:26.04 |
brlcad |
a binary
distribution |
| 21:26.07 |
IriX64 |
ill
try |
| 21:26.08 |
brlcad |
for cygwin
users |
| 21:26.11 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-114-205.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:26.28 |
brlcad |
or for
windows users for that matter if it doesn't require cygwin
itself |
| 21:26.41 |
IriX64 |
if they have
their xwin running itll work |
| 21:27.42 |
IriX64 |
-march=i486
:) |
| 21:28.02 |
IriX64 |
or
pentium |
| 21:28.50 |
IriX64 |
gotta go
shave, wife keeps nagging me, bbiab :) |
| 21:29.35 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 21:29.54 |
starseeker |
Heh - got a
helpful email from one of the Gentoo devs - they apparently REALLY
don't like using /opt |
| 21:31.08 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Do
you know who maintains the FreeBSD port? |
| 21:31.10 |
``Erik |
yeah, they
are a whiney lot :D |
| 21:31.11 |
``Erik |
me |
| 21:31.22 |
starseeker |
where are you
installing to? |
| 21:31.28 |
``Erik |
/usr/local/brlcad |
| 21:31.36 |
starseeker |
Ah. |
| 21:31.57 |
``Erik |
has for a
long long long time |
| 21:32.33 |
brlcad |
at least
ports uses /usr/local by default |
| 21:32.37 |
starseeker |
Interesting |
| 21:32.48 |
``Erik |
yeah, you can
override PREFIX to point to where you want |
| 21:32.55 |
``Erik |
like /opt if
you want the sysV style |
| 21:32.58 |
brlcad |
but hardly
anyone does |
| 21:33.13 |
``Erik |
/usr/X11R6
and /usr/Xorg went away, too, it's now all in
/usr/local |
| 21:33.17 |
starseeker |
Gentoo dev
suggested using /usr/lib/brlcad for everything and then symlinking
the binaries into /usr/bin |
| 21:33.25 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:33.28 |
brlcad |
interesting |
| 21:33.38 |
``Erik |
cuz they'd
really love having stuff like /usr/bin/wall ? |
| 21:33.39 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 21:33.47 |
brlcad |
wall's gone
now :) |
| 21:33.57 |
``Erik |
in head... as
of this morning... |
| 21:34.02 |
brlcad |
as of last
night |
| 21:34.04 |
``Erik |
or
yesterday... O.o something, heh |
| 21:35.04 |
brlcad |
/usr/lib/brlcad is just as good a root as
any if they don't mind the symlinks and if it preserves/isolates
needing to rename things |
| 21:35.09 |
starseeker |
He also
suggests forcing the use of system libs rather than having
configure figure it out... sigh. |
| 21:35.10 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.29 |
``Erik |
do they
provide tcl8.5a6 ? |
| 21:35.34 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
guess I'll try that - they seem to have a bee in their bonnet about
opt |
| 21:35.38 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
forcing it to use system libs is also not a problem
"--disable-all" |
| 21:35.50 |
starseeker |
Except their
tcl 8.5 ebuild is masked |
| 21:36.03 |
``Erik |
debian
doesn't have an 8.5 in testing, :/ |
| 21:36.09 |
brlcad |
so brl-cad
will be masked until it's complete |
| 21:36.15 |
brlcad |
or make it
use 8.4 |
| 21:36.19 |
brlcad |
with a
patch |
| 21:36.33 |
brlcad |
though louipc
seemed to indicate it didn't even need a patch |
| 21:36.56 |
brlcad |
not sure I
believe it didn't really need a patch for everything to work, but
if mged comes up, then good enough |
| 21:37.40 |
starseeker |
Really? |
| 21:38.18 |
brlcad |
yeah,
code-wise 8.4 works for us just as well |
| 21:38.35 |
brlcad |
8.5 was
needed for updates for a specific platform features
(aquatk) |
| 21:38.51 |
starseeker |
Hmm. Will
the configure script in 7.10.4 give it a try with 8.4, or does that
need patching? |
| 21:39.05 |
brlcad |
hindsight
20/20 and all, it's taken way longer than expected (both for tcl
and for that need) |
| 21:39.14 |
starseeker |
heh |
| 21:39.42 |
brlcad |
mmmm.. it'll
need patching to search for tcl8.4 |
| 21:39.52 |
starseeker |
OK |
| 21:39.53 |
brlcad |
but literally
just like 4 lines |
| 21:40.05 |
brlcad |
head has
those lines already |
| 21:40.22 |
brlcad |
interesting..
simcity in tcl/tk |
| 21:40.37 |
``Erik |
*shudder* |
| 21:40.43 |
starseeker |
That should
be a simple patch. |
| 21:40.52 |
``Erik |
which
simcity? the first one (on the c64) was pretty fun |
| 21:40.57 |
brlcad |
http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/24 |
| 21:41.24 |
brlcad |
apparently
maxis is giving the game to OLPC |
| 21:41.34 |
``Erik |
nify |
| 21:41.38 |
``Erik |
s/f/ft/ |
| 21:53.27 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 21:53.56 |
starseeker |
Cool
:-) |
| 21:54.58 |
bpoole |
Anyone here
read xkcd? |
| 21:55.03 |
``Erik |
daily. |
| 21:55.05 |
starseeker |
they're
suggesting additional ebuilds be created for libs currently not in
portage - given the trouble I've seen in the past getting ebuilds
accepted, you'd think that it would be easier to have just
one... |
| 21:55.09 |
bpoole |
I'm seeing
him talk tomorrow :) |
| 21:55.13 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
prefix of /usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ? |
| 21:55.14 |
``Erik |
cool |
| 21:55.23 |
``Erik |
no, default
prefix |
| 21:55.50 |
``Erik |
but I found
where SOMEONE (won't mention his name, but he sits downstairs and
lifts weights) broke it :D |
| 21:57.10 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 21:57.29 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libfb needs
libsocket and libnsl on solaris |
| 22:00.01 |
``Erik |
heh, and I
fudged the commit message, go figure :D |
| 22:00.21 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: MFC to pick up solaris
fix |
| 22:03.35 |
PrezKennedy |
you guys
still hanging out in the WW3 buildings? |
| 22:06.50 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj:
testing |
| 22:13.35 |
``Erik |
ya even going
to try an irix release? |
| 22:14.30 |
``Erik |
with a 7.10.4
solaris on its way, and supposedly a windows release, the only
thing that won't have a 7.10.4 binary is irix... we could have
binaries across the board |
| 22:29.34 |
starseeker |
Mrf. Gentoo
has by default itcl and itk 3.3, but it looks like the configure
script doesn't see them. Arrgh. |
| 22:30.46 |
starseeker |
Interesting -
it finds itcl.h, but doesn't see Itcl_Init |
| 22:48.17 |
brlcad |
you have to
patch up tcl, tk, tclstubs, and tkstubs |
| 22:48.55 |
brlcad |
and maybe
specifically patch out the -I includes for the src/other/tcl|tk
flags |
| 22:49.13 |
brlcad |
otherwise
it'll pick up a specific version number and incrtcl won't allow
8.4 |
| 22:49.47 |
``Erik |
(in nmg now,
btw) |
| 22:49.48 |
brlcad |
could be,
should be |
| 22:49.52 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 22:49.58 |
brlcad |
so you got a
good hour to go |
| 22:50.24 |
brlcad |
maybe less,
that's like half-way or 2/3rds |
| 22:50.34 |
``Erik |
guess it gets
uploaded on tuesday :) |
| 23:04.58 |
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| 23:07.35 |
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| 23:07.35 |
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| 23:07.35 |
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| 23:16.45 |
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| 23:25.39 |
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| 23:28.26 |
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| 00:00.05 |
yukonbob |
!nice |
| 00:00.08 |
tarzeau |
now i see
./misc/debian ... ouf |
| 00:00.16 |
tarzeau |
anyone wants
to try? |
| 00:00.25 |
yukonbob |
link? |
| 00:00.27 |
tarzeau |
where can i
find some example .g files to load? |
| 00:00.32 |
tarzeau |
gnu.ethz.ch/debian/brlcad/ |
| 00:01.13 |
yukonbob |
share/db/truck.g |
| 00:01.24 |
yukonbob |
etc. |
| 00:01.36 |
tarzeau |
it's a bit
slow remotely, installing it locally |
| 00:02.03 |
yukonbob |
you're
running via remote DISPLAY? |
| 00:02.09 |
tarzeau |
yes |
| 00:02.13 |
tarzeau |
it wasn't
that bad |
| 00:02.22 |
yukonbob |
over LAN, or
further? |
| 00:02.27 |
tarzeau |
i've got
100mbit/gbit at work.. and 1mbit at home |
| 00:03.27 |
tarzeau |
is erik
greenwald in here? |
| 00:03.53 |
yukonbob |
that'd be
``Erik |
| 00:04.00 |
tarzeau |
``Erik: hey
:) |
| 00:04.16 |
tarzeau |
who creates
the tarballs on sf.net ? |
| 00:04.36 |
yukonbob |
prolly ``Erik
and/or brlcad (Sean) |
| 00:11.17 |
tarzeau |
i did load
truck.g |
| 00:11.29 |
tarzeau |
but i only
see it as a little yellow dot, very very far away |
| 00:11.42 |
tarzeau |
where do i
buy the binoculars? |
| 00:13.41 |
louipc |
I think it's
mouse button 1 |
| 00:13.59 |
IriX64 |
other way
button 3:) |
| 00:14.54 |
tarzeau |
i only see
one pixel |
| 00:15.02 |
tarzeau |
maybe i need
to study the documentation |
| 00:15.45 |
tarzeau |
does mged
call one of its 400 binaries often? |
| 00:16.01 |
tarzeau |
PATH=/usr/lib/brlcad:$PATH
/usr/lib/brlcad/mged |
| 00:16.11 |
tarzeau |
i launch it
like this, with all it's binaries put in
/usr/lib/brlcad/ |
| 00:20.31 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/jH6IkN49.html
<---- yukonbob, pffft i have less trouble with tk8.4.6, not
gonna tackle this one :) |
| 00:24.14 |
yukonbob |
tarzeau:
"tops" to see toplevel "objects", "e <toplevel obj name>" to
display it... |
| 00:26.34 |
tarzeau |
i did e g2 in
truck.g and now a red square appeared |
| 00:26.37 |
tarzeau |
a red
box |
| 00:26.54 |
tarzeau |
ah and
lmb/smb zoom in/out |
| 00:27.06 |
tarzeau |
I CAN SEE THE
TRUCK |
| 00:27.09 |
tarzeau |
with e
g4 |
| 00:27.37 |
tarzeau |
KICK
ASS |
| 00:27.41 |
tarzeau |
a
truck! |
| 00:31.16 |
tarzeau |
haha toyjeep,
pink jeep |
| 00:36.39 |
tarzeau |
/usr/bin/rt:
No such file or directory |
| 00:36.48 |
tarzeau |
hmm i got to
tell it to not use full paths :( |
| 00:37.02 |
tarzeau |
or even
better, i tell it where to install at install time i
guess |
| 00:37.08 |
tarzeau |
oh wait
:( |
| 00:59.10 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 01:16.10 |
``Erik |
usually
brlcad for the source tarball and mac dmg, I do the fbsd tbz's and
usually hte solaris image |
| 01:17.39 |
``Erik |
the two "hot"
models to check out are the m35 and the havoc |
| 01:18.03 |
``Erik |
moss is good
for a newbie to look at, too |
| 02:10.59 |
tarzeau |
i looked at
havoc |
| 02:11.02 |
tarzeau |
gotta check
m35 |
| 02:11.30 |
tarzeau |
would it be
possible to not ship blt lib with the tarball? |
| 02:22.48 |
``Erik |
it's part of
the src tarball, but if you have an acceptable version installed,
BRL-CAD SHOULD used the installed version... |
| 02:26.40 |
tarzeau |
i do, i've
used also --disable-bltstuff |
| 02:32.43 |
``Erik |
and it still
tries to build blt? |
| 02:51.09 |
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| 17:15.38 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
just so you know, I am working to make the mods necessary so either
8.4 or 8.5 will work, but it's a bit tricky due to various pathing
issues (particularly when you support arbitrary combinations of
extensions enabled/disabled) |
| 17:15.56 |
*** join/#brlcad bob`
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| 17:16.10 |
brlcad |
8.4's aquatk
frankly "sucks" .. heavily broken in areas we need |
| 17:19.00 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
interesting hub -- was that rendered with pov? |
| 17:26.56 |
brlcad |
tarzeau: I
usually create them -- if you see anything that needs fixing, lemme
know |
| 17:31.56 |
brlcad |
items are
disable/enabled via the various --enable-*-build --disable-*-build
options (see the --help list and/or INSTALL) .. configure will
auto-disable by default if it detects a system-installed
version |
| 18:38.35 |
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| 18:38.55 |
ertugerata |
salut ,
hi |
| 18:40.07 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
hub -- not BRL-CAD |
| 18:41.43 |
ertugerata |
yukonbob:
hi |
| 18:41.48 |
yukonbob |
hey
ertugerata |
| 18:42.07 |
ertugerata |
tu parle
français ? |
| 18:42.18 |
yukonbob |
un peux, mais
pas bien |
| 18:42.47 |
ertugerata |
yukonbob: mon
ami a une patche pour brlcad avec new tcl |
| 18:43.02 |
yukonbob |
8.5 |
| 18:43.18 |
yukonbob |
? |
| 18:43.18 |
ertugerata |
pour
8.5b2 |
| 18:43.43 |
yukonbob |
et, le patch
fait quoi? |
| 18:44.08 |
ertugerata |
http://svn.pardus.org.tr/contrib/applications/science/brlcad/files/ |
| 18:44.29 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: s/not
BRL-CAD/no, BRL-CAD/ (ie: it _was_ done w/ brlcad ;) |
| 18:44.47 |
ertugerata |
patch pour
configure.ac et new tcl |
| 18:45.07 |
ertugerata |
je peux voir
comment in netbsd build brlcad ? |
| 18:47.52 |
yukonbob |
(je voir les
programmes, un moment svp) |
| 18:48.08 |
ertugerata |
ok |
| 18:52.19 |
yukonbob |
ertugerata:
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/df7b56e2 |
| 18:53.41 |
ertugerata |
ton system a
tcl8.4 |
| 18:53.48 |
yukonbob |
oiu |
| 18:53.50 |
yukonbob |
oui |
| 18:54.21 |
yukonbob |
les changes
pour 8.4 sur NetBSD -- je pense que les plus est pour 8.4, peut
etre tout... |
| 18:54.33 |
yukonbob |
et... |
| 18:54.45 |
ertugerata |
in netbsd
comme gentoo vous compile le programme ? |
| 18:54.57 |
ertugerata |
il n'ya pas
package system ? |
| 18:58.31 |
yukonbob |
non -- mais
ca c'est le method que je utilize |
| 18:58.49 |
yukonbob |
il y a pkgsrc
(src) et pkg_add, etc. (binary) |
| 18:59.00 |
yukonbob |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d37cb80c3 |
| 18:59.27 |
yukonbob |
^-- arguments
pour ./configure |
| 18:59.35 |
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| 19:00.25 |
ertugerata |
yukonbob:
vous avez urt itck itcl separed |
| 19:00.57 |
yukonbob |
oui -- avec
pkgsrc... |
| 19:01.15 |
ertugerata |
quel e leur
version ? |
| 19:01.25 |
yukonbob |
de les
tout? |
| 19:01.48 |
ertugerata |
no itck itcl
et urt version seul |
| 19:01.53 |
yukonbob |
ah... |
| 19:02.39 |
yukonbob |
tcl-itcl-current-20040920nb4 <-- itcl
et itk... |
| 19:02.58 |
yukonbob |
urt-3.1b1nb8 |
| 19:03.23 |
yukonbob |
"nb[numero]"
est pour NetBSD |
| 19:03.26 |
ertugerata |
my urt
3.1b |
| 19:03.40 |
ertugerata |
itk and itcl
cvs |
| 19:04.03 |
yukonbob |
et quel age
est les files? |
| 19:08.51 |
ertugerata |
20071111 |
| 19:08.59 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
8.4/8.5 -- really nice to hear -- when I was talking about my
experiences w/ MacOS/Tcl, I wasn't viewing the results Tk's
rendering with a microscope (and in fact, I was still primarily
developing for X11 (_and_ in fact, don't put too much time pining
for a better-looking UI than even X11 ;)) |
| 19:09.04 |
yukonbob |
ertugerata:
! |
| 19:09.50 |
yukonbob |
je va faire
un nouveau pkg pour moi ;) |
| 19:10.58 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: so if
you say that in your experience AquaTk is teh suX0r compared to
what one would get w/ a native MacOS (holding it to high
standards), I don't doubt... |
| 19:11.34 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: have
you seen: http://wiki.tcl.tk/13734 ... does it
help in anyway? |
| 19:14.46 |
yukonbob |
soo -- maybe
the substandard rendering is a combination of Tcl implementation,
as well as the Mac APIs doing their best to make all things look
Aqua (even w/ the "old" Carbon API)? |
| 19:18.32 |
yukonbob |
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/architecture/index.html
suggests different re: purposes of Carbon/Cocoa... |
| 19:23.37 |
yukonbob |
http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/mac/2001/05/23/cocoa_vs_carbon.html
however, suggests Carbon is indeed for porting older code, and
Cocoa is the new hotness |
| 19:28.18 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: re:
hub -- ah, didn't think so :) thx looked too much like opengl
raster render |
| 19:29.06 |
brlcad |
er, so it is
a brl-cad model .. is that an rt render?? |
| 19:32.37 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
rt -- indeed it is... |
| 19:32.59 |
brlcad |
weird... |
| 19:33.17 |
brlcad |
the blends
done with torii? |
| 19:34.30 |
*** join/#brlcad ulusoy
(n=ulusoy@81.214.93.222) |
| 19:34.49 |
ulusoy |
hi |
| 19:35.25 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
fyi, --with-ogl=no with --without-opengl is redundant |
| 19:35.34 |
brlcad |
howdy
ulusoy |
| 19:36.17 |
ulusoy |
i install
brlcad on my pc a few minutes ago. |
| 19:36.24 |
brlcad |
also if you
end up simply wanting to disable everything, there's a
--disable-all flag |
| 19:36.51 |
brlcad |
(shorthand
for --disable-almost-everything-build, see INSTALL for other
aliases) |
| 19:37.02 |
brlcad |
ulusoy:
great |
| 19:37.25 |
brlcad |
docs are on
http://brlcad.org and "mged" is
probably where you want to start -- the docs and tutorials are
pretty much required reading ;) |
| 19:37.54 |
ulusoy |
thanks. |
| 19:38.04 |
ulusoy |
i need
them |
| 19:38.53 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: and
we're not pining for the better-looking UI -- the vast majority
simply don't know what X11 is or how to use it (lot of support
requests where they don't even have it installed) |
| 19:39.12 |
brlcad |
not so much
that AquaTk sucks -- if the port is "complete" then it won't
suck |
| 19:39.43 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
ogl -- ya -- but I got two messages about how to do it, so just
covered my *ss and put both ;) -- are they both valid? So either
one of them will work? |
| 19:39.48 |
brlcad |
it's just
simply incomplete in 8.4, lots of basic things not yet working --
that's where 8.5 is considerably better where dozens of bugs were
fixed |
| 19:40.02 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yeah, both are valid |
| 19:40.04 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
blends -- yes, iirc |
| 19:40.24 |
brlcad |
our configure
has a slew of aliases for each command for those "in the know" that
just want to type less |
| 19:40.37 |
brlcad |
INSTALL
should list them all, and of course there's always
--help |
| 19:40.58 |
yukonbob |
re: blends --
there are blends from hub-edge to body (tubular middle section), as
well as the fluted spoke-holes, which also use the *interior* of a
torus |
| 19:41.01 |
brlcad |
alas, help
doesn't list the aliases, but it'd be way too long if it
did |
| 19:41.15 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 19:41.30 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: how
are you doing -- haven't chatted in a while... |
| 19:41.42 |
brlcad |
busy bee, but
doing great |
| 19:41.56 |
brlcad |
preparing the
release took a lot of time/energy |
| 19:42.01 |
brlcad |
still have to
write up the release notes |
| 19:43.47 |
ulusoy |
o
ne |
| 19:43.49 |
brlcad |
that oreilly
article isn't entirely true fwiw -- both carbon and cocoa are
established with their purposes |
| 19:43.54 |
ulusoy |
im
sorry |
| 19:44.30 |
yukonbob |
hey -- are
you interested in the playing/work I've done w/ 8.4 -- if there's
anything you want (and a certain format to get it to you) let me
know... perhaps I'll just get a report of my build env., methods
and patches and send it your way, in case there's something useful
either for you (or other devs), or other hax0r5 who want to get
more comfortable w/ the distribution and working with
it... |
| 19:44.48 |
brlcad |
cocoa is
simply what they 'want' most to use, but there are plenty of cases
where you simply have to drop down to carbon (performance, control
of the timing loops, c/c++ interface, ..) |
| 19:45.13 |
yukonbob |
is cocoa
aimed at obj c? |
| 19:45.15 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: did
you have to mod any code to get it to work? if so, a patch of that
would be interesting |
| 19:45.20 |
brlcad |
yeah, cocoa
is all objc |
| 19:46.06 |
brlcad |
you can use
the objc++ hooks they added to gcc and directly interface to C++
code in ObjC, but then you're still in ObjC mode |
| 19:46.46 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I
have _not_ had to touch any core code yet -- I'm "working" on
moving bwish to something like libbwish so one can "package add
bwish" to a generic tclsh/wish, but otherwise have not delved into
the code (except for when I was hoping to get rt-xray to recognize
densities, but I didn't get anywhere with that ;) |
| 19:47.24 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: as
for your build settings, I'm almost positive it worked because you
used both system tcl and system incrTcl .. if you try to not use
system incrTcl, I believe it'll fail atm (with a version
whine) |
| 19:47.25 |
yukonbob |
re: bwish --
I've got it loadable, but haven't built interfaces to any of the
functions... |
| 19:48.11 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I
have no doubt about that, but I think that's not too
shocking... |
| 19:48.36 |
brlcad |
not shocking,
but something I still gotta fix :) |
| 19:49.38 |
brlcad |
we
can't/don't assume any package management system -- minimally
should build with whatever is installed piecewise or entirely
stand-alone |
| 19:50.38 |
*** part/#brlcad ertugerata
(n=Ertugrul@81.213.72.50) |
| 19:50.39 |
yukonbob |
I'd call it
low priority -- all those things are easily available to others --
so there's no reason to _have_ to go partly in-distro, partly
out-distro wrt the tcl install -- hopefully between myself, ``Erik
(who said he'd play w/ it on FBSD) and maybe Irix (who might (???)
play with it in cygwin/windows/whatever-hes-running), we can figure
that out... |
| 19:51.52 |
brlcad |
of
course |
| 19:52.08 |
brlcad |
it is low/no
priority for distros that have package management |
| 19:52.26 |
brlcad |
you just set
the flags all on/off and set the dependencies |
| 19:53.05 |
yukonbob |
I believe
it's got everything that's necessary. |
| 19:53.09 |
brlcad |
we have a
long history of specifically NOT requiring users that are compiling
to "go get *anything*" in order to compile |
| 19:53.58 |
brlcad |
package
management systems take care of that so it's not an issue, but from
a bigger cross-platform perspective it's something that *I* have to
worry about (else it turns into an avalanche of support requests
that I'd rather not have) |
| 19:56.00 |
yukonbob |
right -- and
by shipping the full distro, nobody _is_ required to get anything
-- and it's a valid way to look at it... but mixing things up
between in-distro and on-system-already could be a really tricky
business... package system, ActiveTcl, or just installing your own
tarballs and getting them to work, I think it may be a tall order
to get brl-cad to build against what's essentially a half-done job
(if you've got tcl/tk, etc, but not itcl). |
| 19:57.30 |
brlcad |
yet a fairly
common case too, e.g. Macs have tcl/tk and a few extensions, but
not incrTcl ;) |
| 19:57.55 |
brlcad |
I'd much
prefer to use vendor-provided libraries, particularly when they are
customized (as the case is on Macs) |
| 20:01.00 |
brlcad |
i've got it
compiling with the last set of re-enablings of 8.4 |
| 20:01.38 |
brlcad |
now just get
the run-time errors on incrtcl to sort out -- almost sure it's
because it's still using the tcl config from our sources, include
path issues during compile-time |
| 20:02.25 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: no,
not 100% positive, but the mix still should work if our flags are
right :) |
| 20:02.40 |
brlcad |
historically
has worked, so it's what I'd call a build system bug |
| 20:02.47 |
yukonbob |
ahh |
| 20:03.16 |
brlcad |
~yukonbob++ |
| 20:04.06 |
brlcad |
there IS a
system incr ... it's just not in a system path for some reason,
have to see why they did that and how to detect it
"correctly" |
| 20:11.06 |
yukonbob |
ya -- mine
loads 3.3 np -- "package require Itk" "package require
Itcl" |
| 20:11.15 |
yukonbob |
(OS X,
10.4) |
| 20:17.52 |
brlcad |
wonder if
they shoved it into the Tcl framework |
| 20:18.04 |
brlcad |
I'll have to
test that |
| 21:05.42 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:06.47 |
IriX64 |
why are they
duplicating bu_bomb() in /src/other/lgt/error.c and
src/remrt/rtsrv.c ? |
| 21:09.58 |
IriX64 |
yukonbob...
trying my luck with tcl8.4.16 after all :) |
| 21:10.25 |
brlcad |
IriX64: i
already explained why it's there to you |
| 21:10.33 |
IriX64 |
huh
when |
| 21:10.36 |
brlcad |
and told you
what you can try to do about it |
| 21:10.44 |
IriX64 |
what |
| 21:11.04 |
brlcad |
several
months ago when you first started commenting about it |
| 21:11.24 |
IriX64 |
ill fix my
copy, forgive, i thought it was first time i mentioned
it |
| 21:11.38 |
brlcad |
it's at least
the third time |
| 21:11.44 |
IriX64 |
sorry
man |
| 21:12.02 |
IriX64 |
memory really
is poor please forgive |
| 21:12.30 |
IriX64 |
ill check my
logs |
| 21:12.39 |
IriX64 |
as to what to
do about it :) |
| 21:13.44 |
IriX64 |
ahh local
functions |
| 21:26.43 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 21:33.34 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: re:
tcl/tk 8.4.16 -- nice! Are you compiling them from src? |
| 21:33.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548740C0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:34.03 |
IriX64 |
yea man i
can't find binaries for my weird little setup |
| 21:34.26 |
yukonbob |
IriX64:
...and how'd it go? |
| 21:34.41 |
yukonbob |
does BRL-CAD
run natively on Windows, or does it require Cygwin? |
| 21:35.11 |
IriX64 |
requires the
cygwin dll's |
| 21:35.33 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/QMUwZz69.html
< this is what i built, perfect timing :) |
| 21:35.56 |
IriX64 |
now to
install the thing |
| 21:36.42 |
IriX64 |
screwed up on
the prefix, ahh well |
| 21:37.16 |
IriX64 |
i don't think
it cares, does it |
| 21:37.20 |
IriX64 |
? |
| 21:38.44 |
IriX64 |
my systems
not that slow, just that i walked away a few times and it hit snags
in the compile |
| 22:21.32 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/zG814m60.html
<--- yukonbob, there you go :( |
| 23:29.45 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: start
hacking -- what's happening there is the same thing brlcad, ``Erik
and I have been talking about for a while -- my suggestions for
this are to take all tcl-related bits and handle them _outside_ of
the BRL-CAD distrubtion -- so grab your itcl, and blt, tkimg and
build them on your own, against the tcl/tk 8.4 you've got, then
build BRL-CAD against those tcl components you've got
installed. |
| 23:31.42 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782734.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:31.45 |
IriX64 |
understood |
| 23:33.29 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 23:33.52 |
``Erik |
bu_bumb does
something specific, but in lgt, we want it to do something ELSE, so
the symbol is overridden |
| 23:34.07 |
``Erik |
'sup,
yukon? |
| 23:35.25 |
yukonbob |
well, it's
dim up here -- days are short, cloudy (might even be snowing)...
hacking away on various things... |
| 23:36.08 |
yukonbob |
had a good
chat with brlcad this afternoon |
| 23:36.30 |
``Erik |
ohyeah? just
good chumming, or soething enlightening? |
| 23:37.12 |
yukonbob |
pretty
casual, but talked about tcl/tk on Mac; made some observations and
"discoveries" |
| 23:37.47 |
``Erik |
cool, my
understanding is that tk is a stinker with 84 on mac |
| 23:38.06 |
yukonbob |
heh -- talked
"french" with ertugerata |
| 23:38.08 |
``Erik |
*nix and
winderz are good with it *shrug* |
| 23:38.13 |
``Erik |
wow |
| 23:38.15 |
``Erik |
tongue and
all??? |
| 23:38.17 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 23:38.30 |
yukonbob |
french
talking != french kissing :) |
| 23:38.43 |
``Erik |
<--
scrolls and reads |
| 23:38.59 |
``Erik |
if brlcad is
doing the 84 compat hacks, that means I dont have to,
sweet |
| 23:39.23 |
``Erik |
and, uh...
tcl 85b2? O.o 2??? |
| 23:39.27 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: see
link I posted to wiki.tcl.tk |
| 23:39.39 |
yukonbob |
(re: tk on
MacOS) |
| 23:44.07 |
``Erik |
okie, read up
the backlog |
| 23:44.44 |
``Erik |
...
"hum" |
| 23:45.02 |
``Erik |
carbon is the
c++ "low level" groove, cocoa ist he objC higher level
way |
| 23:45.21 |
``Erik |
carbon is
recommended by apple, to keep fucktards frm getting their fingers
too deep, I'd imagine |
| 23:45.25 |
``Erik |
er |
| 23:45.27 |
``Erik |
sorry |
| 23:45.31 |
``Erik |
cocoa is
recomdned |
| 23:45.49 |
``Erik |
having done
both carbon and cocoa, I MUCH prefer the cocoa |
| 23:46.05 |
``Erik |
c++ is....
well, bad. objc is bad, but less bad than c++ |
| 23:46.30 |
yukonbob |
I've only
_just_ read a bit about both, but as I hear, Cocoa itself in fact
uses Carbon |
| 23:46.52 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 23:46.56 |
``Erik |
abstraction
does that. |
| 23:47.23 |
``Erik |
cocoa uses
carbon like C uses assembly |
| 23:47.46 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/aAuxTb26.html
<---- do i need to let you know about these? |
| 23:48.29 |
``Erik |
irix: a
warning is not someting to be concerned about, and anything in
src/other is "not our problem" |
| 23:48.39 |
IriX64 |
good
then |
| 23:48.45 |
yukonbob |
a snippet
that small is almost useless, and what ``Erik said :) |
| 23:49.00 |
IriX64 |
man it gives
the file and line# |
| 23:49.08 |
``Erik |
it was enough
to tell me it was n src/other/blt ... straight import |
| 23:49.26 |
IriX64 |
ok |
| 23:49.46 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:49.50 |
yukonbob |
?there's no
indication it came from src/other/blt |
| 23:50.02 |
``Erik |
you've seen
the commits from bparker, right? I think he's working on a windows
7.10.4 |
| 23:50.11 |
``Erik |
blt.h is in
src/other/blt |
| 23:50.14 |
IriX64 |
ah |
| 23:50.23 |
``Erik |
... as in,
bacon lettuce tomato... |
| 23:50.39 |
yukonbob |
blt.h could
be from any blt distribution -- I think IriX64 is building
seperate tcl pieces... |
| 23:51.10 |
IriX64 |
its the big
piece i want ;) |
| 23:51.16 |
yukonbob |
anyway --
it's a warning |
| 23:51.22 |
IriX64 |
right |
| 23:51.34 |
yukonbob |
nothing to
fret about in this case... |
| 23:51.42 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:52.47 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: is
this blt from sourceforge or the BRL-CAD distro? |
| 23:53.05 |
IriX64 |
sourceforge |
| 23:53.18 |
yukonbob |
rock'n'roll
-- keep it up :) |
| 23:53.22 |
IriX64 |
cvs |
| 23:53.26 |
IriX64 |
:) |
| 23:53.50 |
IriX64 |
so was that
last horrible thing i built :) |
| 23:54.27 |
yukonbob |
you've got
tkimg too? |
| 23:54.38 |
IriX64 |
no |
| 23:54.51 |
yukonbob |
oh -- /me
sees what you're saying... the last thing was from
cvs... |
| 23:54.58 |
IriX64 |
yes |
| 23:55.21 |
IriX64 |
but using
system tcl8.4.16 |
| 23:55.38 |
``Erik |
<-- has a
strong interest in making the software work with as much external
sw as possible |
| 23:55.39 |
yukonbob |
what was "the
last thing"... itcl? |
| 23:55.49 |
IriX64 |
brlcad |
| 23:56.10 |
IriX64 |
screwed up
the prefix used 7.10.4 |
| 23:56.37 |
``Erik |
heh, i think
everone interested in package mgmt is up that alley |
| 23:56.48 |
IriX64 |
``Erik then
take out the bloody needs exactly blah blah has yah yah
check |
| 23:57.21 |
yukonbob |
IriX64: it's
your own system and time, so do what you like, but using cvs (ie:
not formally released) increases your chances for breakage -- which
means you're fighting a battle on more fronts than you need, and
pretty much renders this as a formal test "dubious" at
best. |
| 23:57.47 |
IriX64 |
heh true but
i like fiddling |
| 23:58.09 |
yukonbob |
don't fiddle;
you'll go blind |
| 23:58.13 |
IriX64 |
heh |
| 23:59.33 |
``Erik |
um |
| 23:59.58 |
``Erik |
src/tcl/library/init.tcl has an 'exact'
line mebbe 40 lines down that shouldn't be |
| 00:00.17 |
``Erik |
technically,
the ampi stuff *SHOULD* refer to the detected tcl init.tcl file,
not the included |
| 00:00.18 |
``Erik |
um |
| 00:00.19 |
IriX64 |
see |
| 00:00.21 |
``Erik |
but it
don't |
| 01:29.13 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.110.186) |
| 02:31.36 |
*** join/#brlcad fiberchunks
(n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) |
| 02:49.38 |
brlcad |
it "should"
and does in head iirc |
| 02:50.09 |
brlcad |
the tricky
one is itcl which I think is picking up the tclConfig.sh from our
sources |
| 02:50.22 |
brlcad |
so it gets
compiled looking for a specific version (which at run-time doesn't
exist) |
| 02:52.42 |
``Erik |
hm, when I
looked, itcl was using src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl, which had a
requires exactly line |
| 02:52.45 |
``Erik |
or,
uh |
| 02:52.47 |
``Erik |
ampi was,
rather |
| 02:52.57 |
``Erik |
mebbe
both |
| 02:53.21 |
``Erik |
I have an ed
hack in the fbsd port to work around the issue |
| 02:53.22 |
``Erik |
:/ |
| 02:53.36 |
``Erik |
"heros" is
on, btw... kinda half watching it.... |
| 02:54.20 |
``Erik |
how's the new
machine coming? |
| 02:58.34 |
brlcad |
not much
since saturday |
| 02:59.00 |
brlcad |
finished
backups, did some more performance testing, had some DDoS stuff to
take care of on Sunday |
| 03:01.43 |
Supaplex |
yucky
:p |
| 03:03.48 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Am I
correct that latest cvs still needs the patched
itcl/itk? |
| 03:08.42 |
brlcad |
Supaplex: not
the first, not the last :) |
| 03:08.54 |
brlcad |
and wasn't
the brl-cad site.. but related hardware getting hit :) |
| 03:08.59 |
Supaplex |
yup.
kiddies. |
| 03:17.16 |
``Erik |
damn christa
miller is rompable |
| 03:31.44 |
*** join/#brlcad fiberchunks_
(n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) |
| 03:32.56 |
*** join/#brlcad fiberchunks__
(n=foo@c-71-235-174-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:34.20 |
fiberchunks__ |
damned router
:/ |
| 03:41.33 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:45.00 |
``Erik |
a
bz'er? |
| 03:45.55 |
fiberchunks |
yah, long
time ago |
| 03:46.01 |
fiberchunks |
now, not so
much |
| 03:46.28 |
``Erik |
<-- never
gotten into the bz groove |
| 03:46.36 |
``Erik |
just noticed
your channels :D |
| 03:46.51 |
fiberchunks |
great game,
just have no time for it anymore |
| 03:46.56 |
``Erik |
the boy
*points at brlcad* seems to be into it |
| 03:47.09 |
fiberchunks |
yah, I've
known him for quite some time |
| 03:47.52 |
fiberchunks |
without him,
there'd likely be very little in the way of mac work for
it |
| 03:48.07 |
fiberchunks |
among other
things |
| 03:48.07 |
``Erik |
true |
| 03:48.23 |
``Erik |
I'm under the
impression that there's only one other person really pushing the
game, uh |
| 03:48.27 |
``Erik |
matt or
something |
| 03:48.39 |
fiberchunks |
jeff |
| 03:48.44 |
``Erik |
jeffm? |
| 03:48.48 |
fiberchunks |
indeed |
| 03:48.51 |
``Erik |
not
riker |
| 03:49.03 |
``Erik |
yeah, I think
jeffm is it |
| 03:49.23 |
fiberchunks |
oh tim? he's
always around -- I'm not sure how into it he is anymore, but he's
the 'official' king tut |
| 03:49.47 |
``Erik |
I was name
dropping to someone and tey were like "omfg, you know tim riker?"
and I said, no, an active dev, so they said jeffm...
heh |
| 03:50.12 |
``Erik |
I THINK it
was jeffm |
| 03:50.22 |
``Erik |
my memory
aint' so good in my old age *sigh* |
| 03:50.29 |
fiberchunks |
most likely -
he's one of the most active |
| 03:50.29 |
brlcad |
naw, more
than that working on it |
| 03:50.41 |
brlcad |
arguably 2-3
guys "leading" most of the work (and that doesn't include
tim) |
| 03:50.56 |
``Erik |
damn, christa
... damn |
| 03:50.56 |
brlcad |
and not
counting the peripheral coders |
| 03:50.57 |
fiberchunks |
tim still the
figurehead, brlcad ? |
| 03:51.05 |
brlcad |
on paper,
sure |
| 03:51.13 |
fiberchunks |
some things
never change :) |
| 03:51.18 |
brlcad |
he's done
even less since you were last around |
| 03:51.20 |
``Erik |
seriously,
would anyone here turn down christa miller? |
| 03:51.33 |
fiberchunks |
fancy -- why
doesn't he turn it over I wonder |
| 03:51.41 |
brlcad |
he popped in
one day a few months ago when gsoc kicked off to vote on the
student submissions |
| 03:51.52 |
brlcad |
but that's
about it for '07 |
| 03:51.59 |
``Erik |
hopefully I
rate as #2 or at least a close #3 for BRL-CAD dev :D |
| 03:52.08 |
brlcad |
``Erik: I
know lots of chicks that would turn her down :) |
| 03:52.37 |
``Erik |
I think my
chick would saddle up for her, so it's all good :D |
| 03:52.55 |
fiberchunks |
yay, take
pictures! |
| 03:52.58 |
``Erik |
once you quit
screaming "tmi", ... |
| 03:53.25 |
brlcad |
hey, so long
as you're not in the pics, I"m all for it! :) |
| 03:53.27 |
``Erik |
a buddy of
mine up in nyc a psych phd, finally bought a mac today |
| 03:53.45 |
``Erik |
she's going
between ecstatic and terrified |
| 03:53.52 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 03:54.03 |
brlcad |
good
stuff |
| 03:54.17 |
fiberchunks |
bastich! |
| 03:54.33 |
``Erik |
I might buy
an ibook soon |
| 03:54.43 |
``Erik |
they look
like decent little machines if you slap a little ram in |
| 03:54.49 |
fiberchunks |
i'm thinking
of one of those fancy new imacs for the family |
| 03:55.08 |
``Erik |
I'm waiting
for a field report on the video card performance |
| 03:55.19 |
``Erik |
if the intel
chip does what I need done, ... *shrug* |
| 03:55.40 |
brlcad |
last I read,
the imac video "problem" was fixed with the latest rev |
| 03:55.57 |
brlcad |
you can
actually run dual head now, which was stupidly crippled
before |
| 03:56.04 |
fiberchunks |
yeah, what
the hell is with the condensation thing? they put an icebox in
that thing? |
| 03:56.25 |
``Erik |
multiscreen
isn't my concern, it's the performance for running "wow" that
worries me |
| 03:56.56 |
``Erik |
if a plain
chicklet macbook maxes cpu on wow, I'll buy one... otherwise, I
might go pro for the nvidia chip |
| 03:57.25 |
fiberchunks |
mmmmm,
nvidia. Although, if amd does things right, in a couple of years
ATI could be decent again |
| 03:57.46 |
``Erik |
I have a sour
taste to nvidia. |
| 03:57.54 |
fiberchunks |
why
for? |
| 03:57.59 |
``Erik |
their unix
guys... don't understand unix |
| 03:58.05 |
fiberchunks |
I've never
had anything but sucess with their cards |
| 03:58.24 |
``Erik |
the ioctl
stuff was fucking BAD, it relied on outright bugs in linux code,
which made the fbsd effort ugly |
| 03:58.35 |
``Erik |
also; they
didn't hire me, so poo on them. :D |
| 03:58.40 |
fiberchunks |
haha |
| 03:59.10 |
fiberchunks |
ah fbsd, my
exp is strictly with linux and of course doze (for solidworks at
work, regretfully) |
| 03:59.13 |
``Erik |
but
seriosuly, their ioctl stuff relied on a weirdness of linux with
memory addressing |
| 03:59.45 |
``Erik |
namely, linux
has a weird behavior of reporting "local memory" at the same
address of wire memory in an ioctl |
| 03:59.52 |
fiberchunks |
well, that's
what I partly mean with ATI and AMD deciding (hopefully) to do the
right thing when it comes to drivers -- so the community can work
on them as well |
| 03:59.53 |
``Erik |
whcih is not
the case for, y'knwo, EVERY REAL OS |
| 04:00.00 |
fiberchunks |
heh |
| 04:00.17 |
``Erik |
so nvidia's
drivers behavior of assuming reported ioctl addy is both wired and
real... that's wrong |
| 04:01.58 |
``Erik |
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=89042 |
| 04:04.17 |
fiberchunks |
so that's a
linux kernel issue and an nvidia driver issue then |
| 04:05.48 |
``Erik |
this was over
6 years ago.. |
| 04:06.04 |
fiberchunks |
fancy -- good
to see response time is good ;) |
| 04:06.38 |
fiberchunks |
also good to
see that I can't properly read anything (like dates and stuff
) |
| 04:06.43 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 04:09.08 |
``Erik |
was a long
time ago |
| 04:09.17 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=72
was the fallout |
| 04:09.19 |
``Erik |
*grouse* |
| 04:10.03 |
``Erik |
damn apple
finds good bands to use on their commercials O.o |
| 04:10.41 |
louipc |
I don't think
I've heard a single metal band yet |
| 04:11.11 |
fiberchunks |
you know, I
love their products, but christ does itunes for the pc suck, which
i'm really surprised about |
| 04:11.17 |
fiberchunks |
or maybe I
shouldn't be |
| 04:11.53 |
brlcad |
they're not
used to coding software on top of steaming piles ;) |
| 04:12.00 |
fiberchunks |
hehe |
| 04:12.03 |
``Erik |
hehhee |
| 04:13.14 |
fiberchunks |
what's the
going rate these days for a 17" macbook pro? |
| 04:13.21 |
``Erik |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N3OrZzPud8 |
| 04:14.00 |
fiberchunks |
oof,
nevermind -- too rich for me right now |
| 04:14.22 |
brlcad |
don't forget
the blessed educational or gov't discounts ;) |
| 04:14.33 |
brlcad |
don't even
need to prove it *ahem* |
| 04:14.35 |
fiberchunks |
oooo, I do
have a student too :) |
| 04:14.46 |
fiberchunks |
what's the
discount? |
| 04:14.51 |
brlcad |
usually about
10% |
| 04:14.58 |
fiberchunks |
sweet |
| 04:22.04 |
``Erik |
wow, they
really suck live |
| 04:22.30 |
``Erik |
the
instruments are spot on, but the vocs, geez |
| 04:23.33 |
louipc |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28GaKoCuobU |
| 04:24.20 |
``Erik |
strat++ |
| 04:26.20 |
louipc |
\m/ |
| 04:26.57 |
louipc |
man I can't
wait until march |
| 04:27.11 |
louipc |
I'll be
seeing them |
| 04:27.17 |
``Erik |
back in hs,
my buddies were big into iron maiden and judas priest... wasn't so
much myself |
| 04:27.37 |
fiberchunks |
oh yeah man,
eddie and the priest |
| 04:27.42 |
fiberchunks |
awesome
stuff |
| 04:28.24 |
``Erik |
I got more
into old school ac/dc, metallica, ... |
| 04:28.40 |
``Erik |
bon scott,
yo! |
| 04:28.47 |
fiberchunks |
iron maiden
isn't old school? judas priest? dear god man! :) |
| 04:28.54 |
louipc |
ac/dc is good
but it's all the same song haha |
| 04:29.01 |
``Erik |
well |
| 04:29.03 |
``Erik |
3
songs |
| 04:29.10 |
``Erik |
... done
over... and over...and... over... |
| 04:29.11 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 04:29.11 |
louipc |
old school
metallica vs. current metallica? |
| 04:29.14 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 04:29.26 |
``Erik |
metallica
with long hair and promotion of "piracy" |
| 04:29.30 |
fiberchunks |
current or
recent metallica is crap |
| 04:29.34 |
``Erik |
jean jackets
ands hit |
| 04:29.36 |
louipc |
yea |
| 04:29.46 |
``Erik |
kill 'em
all! |
| 04:29.51 |
louipc |
master of
puppets |
| 04:30.04 |
``Erik |
last good
album they did :( |
| 04:30.11 |
``Erik |
if I had a
hat, I'd doff it to cliff right now. |
| 04:30.47 |
fiberchunks |
i prefer
good, old fashioned sabbath with the ozman |
| 04:31.10 |
``Erik |
yeah, 70's
bslack sabbath is good |
| 04:31.12 |
``Erik |
um |
| 04:31.19 |
``Erik |
the, uh, last
ozzya lbum sucked |
| 04:31.26 |
``Erik |
um, johnny
something? |
| 04:31.30 |
``Erik |
johnny
blade? |
| 04:31.35 |
louipc |
yeah I can't
completely get into the Dio stuff |
| 04:31.54 |
``Erik |
with the pic
of the dude flying the plane... that album sucked |
| 04:31.56 |
fiberchunks |
well, once
you reach a certain age, or can't remember precisely where, or who,
you are -- it's time to get off the train. I mean really
:) |
| 04:31.59 |
``Erik |
the ones
before kicked butt |
| 04:32.15 |
louipc |
hehe
yea |
| 04:32.19 |
``Erik |
and some of
ozzies "solo" stuff was awesome |
| 04:32.34 |
fiberchunks |
randy rhodes
FTW |
| 04:32.42 |
``Erik |
yeah, randy
was good |
| 04:32.51 |
``Erik |
another one
worth doffing a hat to :( |
| 04:33.03 |
fiberchunks |
black label
society is kick ass as well (thinking of ozzy
guitarists) |
| 04:33.31 |
``Erik |
since we're
on a grim rode, dimebag, mentiond bon scott and cliff,
... |
| 04:33.34 |
``Erik |
:( |
| 04:33.49 |
fiberchunks |
only the
shitkickers die young |
| 04:34.04 |
louipc |
chuck
shuldiner \m/ |
| 04:34.30 |
fiberchunks |
lemme see,
jimi, stevie ray, john bonham (my personal drum idol), etc
etc |
| 04:34.39 |
``Erik |
stevei's
still alive |
| 04:34.53 |
fiberchunks |
'scuse
me? |
| 04:34.57 |
``Erik |
I
though |
| 04:34.59 |
louipc |
no he
aint |
| 04:35.02 |
``Erik |
doh |
| 04:35.08 |
fiberchunks |
no, stevie
ray vaughn is very very mort |
| 04:35.21 |
``Erik |
oh damn, 17
years ago |
| 04:35.36 |
louipc |
buddy guy is
still alive :P |
| 04:36.01 |
``Erik |
wow,
heh |
| 04:36.04 |
``Erik |
um |
| 04:36.16 |
``Erik |
layne staley,
kurt cobain, ... |
| 04:36.33 |
fiberchunks |
i dont' know
what it is the past couple of years, but I've really been getting
into bluegrass of all things |
| 04:37.03 |
``Erik |
I've gotten
heavy into blues and bubblegum the last few years... |
| 04:37.54 |
``Erik |
always been a
fan of triphop, though :D but metal and hard rock are what I've
been up on since a kid |
| 04:38.27 |
fiberchunks |
ditto that --
I was and still am into trance -- can't really stand rap / hip-hop
except for tech nine |
| 04:38.38 |
fiberchunks |
although my
fiancee loves rap |
| 04:38.40 |
fiberchunks |
:\ |
| 04:38.45 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 04:43.45 |
fiberchunks |
gotta go to
bed, take it easy |
| 05:11.25 |
brlcad |
good to see
the chunk man up and about, hadn't talked to him in
months |
| 06:04.48 |
yukonbob |
nice nickname
"The Chunk Man" |
| 06:07.01 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 06:07.13 |
brlcad |
he fits his
namesake pretty well |
| 06:14.16 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: if
it's possible to get a copy of that newhub model, I'd like to
investigate why four of the pixels are wrong |
| 06:15.53 |
brlcad |
at least,
four that seem wrong -- can't say that they are without seeing the
model and walking the specific ray through the model |
| 06:17.03 |
brlcad |
it's on a
primitive that doesn't have any known problems for that shape, so
it's definitely worth investigating |
| 06:35.51 |
yukonbob |
ya --
np. |
| 06:36.37 |
yukonbob |
are you
looking at interior of middle body? |
| 06:36.49 |
yukonbob |
hint: I doubt
I knew about 'pipe' at that time... |
| 06:41.36 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: drop
me note when ready -- I'll be in/out of irc tonight till I go to
sleep, then here again tmo... |
| 06:58.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@217-162-111-177.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:11.38 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-18-244.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 08:54.07 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:27.53 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-18-244.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 09:34.48 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:41.57 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h
src/libbu/vls.c): |
| 09:41.59 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
protect the vararg function declaration in bu.h with the same
defines as used in the definition in libbu/vls.c |
| 09:42.02 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
remove redundant declaration in libbu/vls.c |
| 09:44.22 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add fchmod.c
(according to libbu/Makefile.am) |
| 09:52.13 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: |
| 09:52.16 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: It
is hard to decide in db_close if bu_close_mapped_file should be
called or not: |
| 09:52.18 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
db_open calls bu_open_mapped_file, db_clone_dbi does
not. |
| 09:52.20 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: Now,
db_open calls bu_close_mapped_file if it is a re-use of a
previously mapped file. |
| 12:06.35 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (48 files in 48 dirs):
Initial check-in. |
| 12:42.46 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Only include windows.h
for btclsh on Windows. |
| 12:49.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548741D6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:00.37 |
*** join/#brlcad krushia
(n=krushia@cntcnhbas01dhcp1-a88.cntcnh.tds.net) |
| 14:38.26 |
*** join/#brlcad keinek
(n=aa9b9169@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:57.52 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:15.36 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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*** join/#brlcad DEFCON
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 15:48.36 |
*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 15:48.36 |
DEFCON |
hi
all |
| 15:48.52 |
DEFCON |
Maloeran are
u here |
| 15:50.05 |
*** join/#brlcad Blue_D
(n=bluedolf@131.143-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 15:50.17 |
Defcon |
hi
Blue_D |
| 15:51.45 |
Blue_D |
Hey
DEFCON |
| 15:52.26 |
brlcad |
eventually |
| 15:53.55 |
Defcon |
i love the
render of the tank btw |
| 16:16.02 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal
(Large)/ (56 files): remove duplicate theme,
src/tclscrtips/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large seems to be a
complete copy plus later updates, and it's actually included in the
dist (this one is not) |
| 16:22.21 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: No longer need
SEARCH_ARCHER. |
| 17:33.16 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Modify default values
for BRLCAD_ROOT and BRLCAD_DATA. |
| 17:33.19 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: move socket and
nsl lib stuff to PKG_LIBS (fix for solaris) |
| 17:40.05 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: carry the solaris fixes
over from STABLE |
| 18:47.28 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: drop
me a line when you're ready for that file |
| 20:21.22 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 20:56.02 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) |
| 21:15.52 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: Initialize
dbip->dbi_fd in db_open() to -1. |
| 21:36.28 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) |
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*** join/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru) |
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*** part/#brlcad akreal
(n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru) |
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*** join/#brlcad akreal
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*** part/#brlcad akreal
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| 22:34.14 |
starseeker |
but
apparently not as a tarball... |
| 22:35.34 |
starseeker |
Hehe - if
someone does get this running we could try running BRL-CAD on it
again ;-) |
| 22:36.09 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
apparently there are no machines available anymore that run this
code natively... |
| 22:37.48 |
starseeker |
emulator time
;-) |
| 22:54.57 |
starseeker |
Come to think
of it, Macsyma at MIT was on Multics at one point... I may still
have that manual around here somewhere... |
| 22:56.01 |
``Erik |
which emu
will be the first to support it? |
| 22:56.30 |
``Erik |
simh might be
a serious contendor... but bochs and qemu are both pretty active
and have both splayed out into lots of arch's |
| 22:57.21 |
starseeker |
I think
http://orangesquid.net/projects/ge635/
is working on it... |
| 22:57.38 |
starseeker |
Apparently
some of the hardware IO setups for Multics were...
complex |
| 22:58.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-88-140.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:58.52 |
starseeker |
I wonder if a
modernized Multics would still be a viable operating system
contender |
| 23:01.27 |
louipc |
qemu is
probably better |
| 23:01.29 |
``Erik |
some of the
hardware i/o setups for unix were complex, too |
| 23:03.00 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: you
in same office as brlcad ? |
| 23:06.10 |
``Erik |
same
building, different room |
| 23:10.02 |
yukonbob |
or so that if
we want him in IRC, he gets a shock. |
| 23:13.30 |
starseeker |
Hehe |
| 23:18.47 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 23:18.53 |
``Erik |
shocking
brlcad... that could be fun :D |
| 23:33.44 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 23:48.54 |
brlcad |
my other irc
client actually rings a loud bell whenever I'm messaged |
| 23:49.02 |
brlcad |
but i've not
used that in a while |
| 23:50.18 |
PrezKennedy |
that would
drive me nuts |
| 23:52.02 |
``Erik |
brlcad, on bz
in my home dir, get bike.g, for yukonbobs issue |
| 23:56.19 |
*** join/#brlcad cad70
(n=5384dcba@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:56.42 |
brlcad |
got
it |
| 23:57.38 |
``Erik |
"hubcomb" is
where the artifacting shows up, according to him... *shrug8 I'm
still building, so I'll let him jabber to ya *shrug* :D |
| 23:58.41 |
``Erik |
bleh, screw
it |
| 23:58.41 |
``Erik |
version
conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.4, need 8.5 |
| 23:58.53 |
``Erik |
and I'm home
and dorking with os stuff |
| 00:02.18 |
``Erik |
the tcl
error? or the dorking with os stuff error? :D |
| 00:02.30 |
``Erik |
I freakin'
hate i386 irq/isr/gdt crap |
| 00:02.37 |
``Erik |
and amd64 has
exactly the same shit |
| 00:06.44 |
brlcad |
tcl |
| 01:03.54 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
still on? |
| 01:04.24 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 01:05.19 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
Heh - our timing isn't so hot, or he's darn good a dodging
;-) |
| 01:07.32 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 01:07.56 |
brlcad |
too much
code, too little time |
| 01:09.46 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 01:10.35 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: did
``Erik get you that file/info |
| 01:11.20 |
brlcad |
the .g file,
yes |
| 01:14.43 |
brlcad |
is it
full_hub? |
| 01:15.46 |
yukonbob |
hubcomb |
| 01:16.33 |
``Erik |
debugger nirt
run on the 'bad' rays? |
| 01:17.02 |
yukonbob |
seems to be
size-dependant (if I'm seeing what I think you're seeing)... so
either use a big framebuffer, or use 2048 or so for manual
rt... |
| 01:18.29 |
brlcad |
it
is |
| 01:18.35 |
brlcad |
related to
tolerance and root solving |
| 01:18.59 |
yukonbob |
floating
point issue? (/me is totally guessing) |
| 01:19.15 |
brlcad |
could be as
simple as a bad normal, but can't say for certain without actual
testing |
| 01:19.23 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:19.36 |
``Erik |
what all
pushes the root solver? the torus is a biggie |
| 01:20.23 |
``Erik |
but the
issues with those mostly seem when the normal is near orthogenal to
the primary |
| 01:20.25 |
yukonbob |
there are ~38
(maybe 78) tori in that model iirc |
| 01:21.08 |
brlcad |
I don't doubt
that the odd normals are tolerance related |
| 01:21.43 |
brlcad |
the odd one
are the specs on the tgc |
| 01:21.57 |
brlcad |
those are the
ones that are worth investigating |
| 01:22.37 |
yukonbob |
tgc == [rcc +
constraints]? |
| 01:22.46 |
``Erik |
truncated
cone |
| 01:22.58 |
``Erik |
an rcc a form
of tgc |
| 01:23.03 |
yukonbob |
trunc cone ==
trc. |
| 01:23.03 |
``Erik |
iirc |
| 01:23.07 |
``Erik |
er |
| 01:23.20 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't model, so loses those quick... :D |
| 01:23.29 |
``Erik |
also; vodka
good :D so don't give me shit |
| 01:23.39 |
brlcad |
truncated
generalized cone |
| 01:23.48 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 01:23.53 |
``Erik |
trc is
truncated right cone? |
| 01:23.53 |
yukonbob |
that hub body
== diff of rcc's -- anyway, is all obvious w/ the .g, and /me
trusts you'll find something interesting... |
| 01:23.53 |
brlcad |
s/generalized/general/ |
| 01:23.59 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 01:24.00 |
``Erik |
twingy,
isst! |
| 01:24.06 |
brlcad |
rcc is a
right circular cylinder |
| 01:24.09 |
Twingy |
pisst! |
| 01:24.11 |
``Erik |
ok, so trc is
a form of tgc |
| 01:24.20 |
brlcad |
trc and rcc
both |
| 01:24.22 |
Twingy |
I sent a file
and instructions to ed today |
| 01:24.26 |
``Erik |
ok |
| 01:24.32 |
brlcad |
all of the
conics are a tgc |
| 01:24.45 |
``Erik |
I was in his
office this morning, he called you then jay-lo to get isst and rvis
sorted |
| 01:25.10 |
brlcad |
just like all
of the arbs are arb8's |
| 01:25.16 |
Twingy |
I've been
squeezing out circuit boards like a weathered north vietnamese
child labor shop |
| 01:26.20 |
yukonbob |
re: trc and
rcc == tgc; interesting... |
| 01:26.45 |
yukonbob |
tec + rec,
too? |
| 01:27.29 |
brlcad |
they go
through different numerics, and are stored with the knowledge that
they are that specific type of tgc |
| 01:27.43 |
``Erik |
yeah,
uh |
| 01:27.46 |
brlcad |
so saying
they're the same really just means that their storage format is
that of a tgc |
| 01:27.59 |
yukonbob |
thx
``Erik |
| 01:28.04 |
``Erik |
I have to go
in the next day or to, heh... I'm trying an experiement |
| 01:28.21 |
``Erik |
instead of
buying 6 weeks worth of food and living out of the freezer, I'm
trying to buy minimally and go once a week |
| 01:28.35 |
brlcad |
rcc's are
considerably faster to evaluate than an arbitrary tgc, for example
(almost an order), given the types of roots possible |
| 01:28.38 |
``Erik |
I'm hoping
it'll get me into eating more fresh vegetables and get away from
the frozen foods |
| 01:29.18 |
Twingy |
I often go to
the grocery store twice a week |
| 01:29.48 |
``Erik |
I was doing
it once every 6 weeks... |
| 01:29.52 |
yukonbob |
! |
| 01:29.59 |
starseeker |
my freezer
isn't that big |
| 01:30.29 |
yukonbob |
reminds me of
Microserfs, where people lock themselves in their offices and only
eat flat food; food that can be slid under the door... |
| 01:30.38 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:31.23 |
``Erik |
heh, ziplock
fotw |
| 01:31.27 |
``Erik |
ftw |
| 01:31.35 |
starseeker |
Actually,
``Erik you might know this... since brlcad's busy - Has there ever
been an effort to have the itcl/itk upstream devs merge in the
brlcad patches to those libraries? |
| 01:31.43 |
``Erik |
um |
| 01:31.50 |
``Erik |
brlcad
patches? |
| 01:32.01 |
starseeker |
BRL-CAD
patches itcl/itk |
| 01:32.05 |
``Erik |
well |
| 01:32.17 |
``Erik |
bob patched
itcl to cope with being included in a foreign build
system |
| 01:32.18 |
``Erik |
but,
uh |
| 01:32.22 |
``Erik |
otherwise,
tehy're very stock |
| 01:32.53 |
``Erik |
the only
modification right now in HEAD is, um, including
<brlcad_config.h> I think |
| 01:33.15 |
``Erik |
otherwise, I
broke stuff really good last week when I imported new tcl, tk,
itcl, and itk |
| 01:33.25 |
starseeker |
My system
installs don't expose Itcl_Init for some reason |
| 01:33.47 |
``Erik |
erm,
odd |
| 01:34.25 |
``Erik |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ |
| 01:34.33 |
``Erik |
but I don't
use system itcl |
| 01:34.35 |
``Erik |
not
yet |
| 01:35.25 |
starseeker |
There we go
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m66c7d311 |
| 01:36.28 |
starseeker |
Personally I
don't have a problem with BRL-CAD building it's own libs, but it
seems to send the Gentoo devs into a tailspin - every time I
interact with them they "suggest" that using the system libs is the
way to go... |
| 01:42.59 |
``Erik |
when they
support (actively) tcl 8.5b1, tk 8.5b1, itcl3.4 and itk 3.4, it's
all good. |
| 01:43.08 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 01:43.12 |
starseeker |
Heh |
| 01:46.53 |
``Erik |
...
ayup... |
| 01:47.02 |
``Erik |
and I'm
PRETTY sure they they don't offer itcl 3.4 |
| 01:47.04 |
``Erik |
masked or
not. |
| 01:47.20 |
``Erik |
given that I
imported stuff from the cvs head... |
| 01:47.24 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 01:47.28 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 01:48.33 |
starseeker |
They also
suggested reducing the user-visible flags - is there any condition
under which a "normal" user would NOT want to optimize the
build? |
| 01:48.52 |
``Erik |
um |
| 01:48.53 |
``Erik |
no |
| 01:48.57 |
starseeker |
OK
:-) |
| 01:49.15 |
starseeker |
aaaand a
nother one bites the dust... |
| 01:49.16 |
``Erik |
supposedly,
it causes crashes on sparc and ppc on fbsd |
| 01:49.31 |
``Erik |
or, it did at
one point |
| 01:49.53 |
``Erik |
I lack sparc
and ppc fbsd boxen, so I undid the de-optimize fu in the port...
and will wait for bug reports |
| 01:50.18 |
starseeker |
That should
do it :-) |
| 01:51.01 |
``Erik |
now I
currenlty don't have adrt/rise enabled and that has been a request
from users |
| 01:51.05 |
``Erik |
mostly
pedre |
| 01:51.24 |
``Erik |
but it adds
python and sdl as deps |
| 01:51.58 |
``Erik |
<-- cranks
his ui size way down |
| 01:52.16 |
``Erik |
woops |
| 01:52.19 |
Twingy |
python and
sdl is the ancient one |
| 01:52.23 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:52.24 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 01:52.25 |
``Erik |
uh |
| 01:52.30 |
``Erik |
get me mor
erecent code. |
| 01:52.30 |
``Erik |
boy. |
| 01:52.39 |
Twingy |
I told you I
just send ed the code |
| 01:53.07 |
``Erik |
are the docs
up to date, so'z dumb old coder like me can pick it
up? |
| 01:54.09 |
``Erik |
<-- half
expecting a letter from legal in the next few days, skipped lunch
to leave early (after 9hrclock time), and the evil one saw me drive
off. |
| 01:54.20 |
``Erik |
so I'm
a'drinkin' and not a'carin' |
| 01:56.07 |
Twingy |
legal? are
you in trouble? :) |
| 01:56.54 |
``Erik |
prasad got a
legal notice before any supervisor interjection |
| 01:57.24 |
``Erik |
actually, no,
he got it immediately after, but obviously the legal avenue was
pursued before any confrontation at the local mgmt
level |
| 01:57.43 |
``Erik |
and I don't
think it learnes. |
| 01:58.42 |
``Erik |
damn my
unique automobile |
| 02:23.38 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
that'd work for me.. pizza :) |
| 02:24.03 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
yeah, we're not modding incr (at least any more) |
| 02:24.19 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 02:24.23 |
brlcad |
other than to
allow it to work uninstalled, which is specific to our source
layout |
| 02:24.40 |
starseeker |
Would
upstream incorporate that change? |
| 02:26.26 |
brlcad |
no no, it
refers specifically to where we know it can find
sources |
| 02:26.49 |
brlcad |
merely for
the sake of being able to run binaries without actually
installing |
| 02:27.07 |
brlcad |
and still
have them find all of the resources they expect |
| 02:27.51 |
brlcad |
the same
effect is achieved normally by setting the plethora of env vars
(ITCL_LIBRARY, etc) |
| 02:28.44 |
starseeker |
Ah. So using
a system install is possible if the env vars are used? |
| 02:28.48 |
brlcad |
ideally
--disable-all will work if/when the proper deps are declared and
if/when all of the configure tests are solid |
| 02:29.00 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 02:29.09 |
brlcad |
using a
system install is supposed to be possible regardless |
| 02:29.16 |
starseeker |
er, sorry.
:-) |
| 02:29.19 |
brlcad |
i'm referring
to running binaries without ever installing anything |
| 02:29.29 |
*** join/#brlcad fiberchunks
(n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) |
| 02:29.43 |
brlcad |
if they were
purely all system installed libs, then there's no
problem |
| 02:30.03 |
brlcad |
because at
run-time, everything is where it expects it already (they're
already installed) |
| 02:30.14 |
starseeker |
Ah, of
course |
| 02:30.20 |
brlcad |
i'm talking
about having one of the tcl component being used, but NOT yet
installed |
| 02:30.42 |
brlcad |
like say you
use a system tcl, but were letting incrtcl compile from our
sources |
| 02:31.12 |
brlcad |
then a binary
that uses itcl, tries a package require Itcl, etc will
fail |
| 02:31.17 |
brlcad |
until you
install it |
| 02:31.42 |
starseeker |
Oh, got
it |
| 02:31.53 |
brlcad |
since we know
where to find those resources even before it's installed, we just
make the mod that makes it look in our source tree before giving
up |
| 02:31.59 |
fiberchunks |
evening |
| 02:32.02 |
brlcad |
howdy
fiberchunks |
| 02:32.13 |
brlcad |
two days in a
row, what is the world coming to! |
| 02:32.22 |
fiberchunks |
no doubt --
call guinness :) |
| 02:32.33 |
fiberchunks |
...cause I
need a beer |
| 02:33.03 |
brlcad |
~beer
fiberchunks |
| 02:33.04 |
ibot |
ACTION pulls
out a excellent Piraat for fiberchunks |
| 02:33.10 |
fiberchunks |
danke |
| 02:35.36 |
brlcad |
``Erik: you
noticed that the new tcl isn't getting our build flags any
more? |
| 02:35.57 |
brlcad |
since b2
update afaict |
| 02:36.19 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
for that configure log, is there a system incrtcl already
installed? |
| 02:36.26 |
brlcad |
i.e. did it
fail to detect |
| 02:36.38 |
starseeker |
Should be -
itcl and itk are installed... |
| 02:36.39 |
brlcad |
or is the
abort correct |
| 02:36.50 |
starseeker |
hang on, let
me make sure... |
| 02:36.56 |
brlcad |
should see
why the test failed |
| 02:37.10 |
brlcad |
might be
something as simple as needing some -lz or something |
| 02:37.22 |
starseeker |
I have
itcl-3.3 and itk-3.3 installed using the portage system |
| 02:37.38 |
starseeker |
In
/usr/lib/itcl3.3 |
| 02:37.40 |
brlcad |
look in
config.log for Itcl_Init |
| 02:38.04 |
brlcad |
those are the
data resources, the libs are "somewhere" else |
| 02:38.19 |
starseeker |
configure:30575: checking for Itcl_Init in
-litcl3.4 |
| 02:38.39 |
starseeker |
configure:30639: checking for Itcl_Init in
-litcl34 |
| 02:38.47 |
starseeker |
configure:30703: checking for Itcl_Init in
-litcl3.3 |
| 02:38.57 |
starseeker |
that should
be it... |
| 02:39.03 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 02:39.08 |
starseeker |
version
3.3 |
| 02:39.18 |
starseeker |
letsee
here... |
| 02:39.20 |
brlcad |
nah nah,
there is massive sections in config.log related to those
tests |
| 02:39.35 |
starseeker |
Oh, want me
to pastebin all of it? |
| 02:39.48 |
brlcad |
all of
what? |
| 02:39.56 |
starseeker |
that section
of config.log |
| 02:40.00 |
brlcad |
i want to see
all of just one of the tests that should have succeeded |
| 02:40.12 |
brlcad |
like the
-litcl3.3 test |
| 02:40.30 |
brlcad |
presuming you
have a libitcl3.3.so |
| 02:40.49 |
starseeker |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m575b452b |
| 02:41.19 |
brlcad |
locate
libitcl |
| 02:41.37 |
brlcad |
that one at
least correctly "failed" |
| 02:41.40 |
starseeker |
I don't have
locate on this box, one sec... |
| 02:41.47 |
brlcad |
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld:
cannot find -litcl3.3 |
| 02:42.19 |
brlcad |
don't have
locate o.O |
| 02:42.42 |
starseeker |
/usr/lib/itcl3.3/libitcl3.3.so is the file
in question... |
| 02:44.20 |
brlcad |
wow |
| 02:44.29 |
brlcad |
that's
.. |
| 02:44.30 |
brlcad |
special |
| 02:45.00 |
starseeker |
The location
or not having locate? |
| 02:45.06 |
brlcad |
yes
:) |
| 02:45.09 |
starseeker |
Hehe |
| 02:45.14 |
brlcad |
but the
location in particular |
| 02:45.26 |
brlcad |
how is an app
that uses libitcl supposed to link against it? |
| 02:45.27 |
starseeker |
That's where
the ebuild stuck it - let me check the ebuild... |
| 02:45.35 |
brlcad |
without
manually adding that ld path |
| 02:45.47 |
brlcad |
where is
libtcl installed? |
| 02:46.21 |
starseeker |
/usr/lib/tcl8.4 |
| 02:46.34 |
brlcad |
inside that
dir? |
| 02:46.41 |
starseeker |
with /usr/lib
having libtcl.so, libtcl8.4.so |
| 02:46.43 |
starseeker |
yes |
| 02:46.45 |
brlcad |
ahh |
| 02:46.56 |
brlcad |
it has
symlinks into it in /usr/lib |
| 02:47.03 |
brlcad |
*that* makes
sense |
| 02:47.14 |
``Erik |
brlcad: no...
remind me at lunch tomorrow :D |
| 02:47.20 |
brlcad |
just throwing
libs into a dir with no ref to them doesn't |
| 02:47.26 |
starseeker |
It would
appear that libitcl does not |
| 02:47.36 |
starseeker |
have anything
in /usr/lib |
| 02:47.48 |
``Erik |
itcl 3.3 does
not play well with tcl 8.5b1 |
| 02:48.08 |
starseeker |
Well, my
system tcl is 8.4 |
| 02:48.41 |
brlcad |
if you run
bwish and package require Itcl, what does it do? |
| 02:48.46 |
brlcad |
s/bwish/wish/ |
| 02:48.50 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: since our build
flags aren't getting passed through to tcl for some reason (which
isn't all that bad so far), just reference our common.h
directly |
| 02:49.03 |
``Erik |
ok |
| 02:49.12 |
``Erik |
I guess you
don't need to remind me at lunch |
| 02:49.13 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 02:49.14 |
starseeker |
cyapp@localhost /usr/portage $
wish |
| 02:49.14 |
starseeker |
package
require % Itcl |
| 02:49.15 |
starseeker |
3.3 |
| 02:49.15 |
starseeker |
% |
| 02:49.23 |
starseeker |
and a window
pops up after wish |
| 02:49.56 |
brlcad |
that takes
care of the error .. not sure we care if other flags aren't passed
-- i'd gather it might be a bigger problem on a non-gcc
platform |
| 02:50.10 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
window is default wish behavior, that's just tk |
| 02:50.16 |
starseeker |
right |
| 02:50.20 |
brlcad |
i wonder how
wish is finding itcl |
| 02:50.28 |
brlcad |
set
auto_path |
| 02:50.40 |
brlcad |
what does
that report? |
| 02:51.13 |
starseeker |
/usr/lib/tcl8.4 /usr/lib
/usr/lib/tk8.4 |
| 02:51.30 |
brlcad |
huh |
| 02:52.19 |
brlcad |
is itcl.tcl
in tcl8.4 or itcl3.3 dir? |
| 02:52.58 |
brlcad |
and what does
ldd `which wish` report? |
| 02:53.13 |
starseeker |
/usr/lib/itcl3.3/itcl.tcl |
| 02:54.01 |
starseeker |
no sign of
itcl |
| 02:54.22 |
starseeker |
let me
pastebin the result... |
| 02:54.48 |
starseeker |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7549ba41 |
| 02:55.36 |
starseeker |
Ah - there is
an itclConfig.sh file in /usr/lib |
| 02:56.32 |
starseeker |
http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m21cfb12e |
| 02:56.39 |
starseeker |
I'll bet
that's it |
| 02:57.11 |
starseeker |
Anybody else
have that file in /usr/lib? |
| 02:57.28 |
brlcad |
that'd be one
way to find the lib |
| 02:57.49 |
brlcad |
but I doubt
still not what wish is using |
| 03:02.42 |
starseeker |
The only
thing I see in any generic file is /usr/include has itcl and itk .h
files |
| 03:03.40 |
brlcad |
ah well,
suppose it doesn't matter too much .. I can use the config
script |
| 03:03.47 |
starseeker |
and as far as
I can tell, the portage package system isn't doing any special
magic when it is doing the installs... |
| 03:04.10 |
starseeker |
Anybody else
got a Gentoo system on the list? |
| 03:10.47 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
finding /usr/lib/itcl3.3 in portage -- I bet the build system must
setup "default" paths/ENV vars to get the portage system to work,
and require flags to "manually" build against it -- my 3rd party
libs/tools are /usr/pkg/[blah] -- which makes total sense for this
system... |
| 03:11.55 |
starseeker |
What does it
mean when you get a "Cannot allocate memory" error in a cvs
checkout??? |
| 03:13.35 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: iirc,
tcls autopath searches dirs and all subdirs |
| 03:14.01 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Thanks for taking the time to work on this :-) |
| 03:17.12 |
yukonbob |
...not to
mention the *Config.sh for leading tcl around to find it's
bits/self... though like ``Erik said, nobody really likes it --
it's a bit of an ongoing issue finding the best way to have tcl
know what system it's on, introspect about itself, etc. |
| 03:28.19 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
really? didn't think it was recursive |
| 03:28.29 |
brlcad |
but that
would explain finding itcl |
| 03:29.06 |
brlcad |
and I still
didn't think the config scripts were used by anything at
run-time |
| 03:29.27 |
brlcad |
just part of
tea build interface |
| 03:31.44 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
Config -- you may well be correct there -- I'm _not_ an expert in
this case -- and I think that anybody who _is_ an expert wishes for
something better ;) |
| 03:32.34 |
yukonbob |
(from what I
glean from conversations with & between devs.) |
| 03:50.59 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/Makefile.am: fix dist,
apparently no longer a mac dir here? |
| 03:53.43 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: wrong ver file in
dist |
| 03:56.10 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: fix dist, there
is no brlcad dir |
| 05:36.09 |
brlcad |
awshome ..
now detects files missing from the dist in a useful
manner |
| 05:38.34 |
yukonbob |
:) -- hey
(only curious here, not pushing), did you see what is responsible
for the errant pixels in the hub? |
| 06:08.33 |
brlcad |
oh heck no,
that'll take a quite while to investigate |
| 06:09.06 |
brlcad |
but I was
able to reproduce it, so that's good/bad |
| 06:11.58 |
brlcad |
I also don't
have the right build setup at the moment to dive into it, but
thanks for getting the model over -- it's in the queue to
investigate |
| 06:29.06 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 06:30.00 |
yukonbob |
if there's
something I can do here, lemme know |
| 06:48.06 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/Makefile.loc: pointless and
out-of-date old build file removed |
| 06:49.54 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add missing remapid
manual page to the install/dist |
| 06:52.04 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/Makefile.loc fbed/Makefile.loc
libbn/Makefile.loc): more obsolete and out-of-date old build files,
now removed |
| 06:58.23 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: |
| 06:58.25 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
semaphore protect the crash report being generated on bomb so that
only one |
| 06:58.27 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
thread/process is writing out to the log file at a time. only allow
one of them |
| 06:58.29 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: to
write to the file, depending on whether the log file for that
process already |
| 06:58.31 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
exists. we use BU_SEM_MAPPEDFILE since that really shouldn't be in
use during |
| 06:58.35 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
bombing. |
| 07:05.19 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 07:05.21 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
fixed garbled output during parallel crash reports. if you were on
a parallel |
| 07:05.23 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
system with mutiple threads/procs in action when bu_bomb() is
invoked, multiple |
| 07:05.25 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
threads/procs ended up writing out to the crash report file. this
fix |
| 07:05.27 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
synchronizes the output and removes the garbled
interleaving. |
| 07:40.47 |
brlcad |
yay, all
binaries finally uploaded (except windows) |
| 07:41.14 |
brlcad |
tomorrow
hopefully can make all of the announcements |
| 07:56.08 |
*** join/#brlcad DEFCON
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:27.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:42.15 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726729.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 08:45.59 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-165.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:51.08 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Initial
check-in. |
| 12:11.33 |
Defcon |
?
what? |
| 12:19.37 |
brlcad |
Defcon:
? |
| 12:22.02 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: there is that
brlcad.sln now.. |
| 12:25.31 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 12:25.31 |
Defcon |
what is
CIA-27 saying? |
| 14:18.08 |
brlcad |
Defcon:
CIA-27 shows commits to the BRL-CAD source code repository (i.e.
actual changes to the code) as they happen |
| 14:19.16 |
Defcon |
that is
sweet |
| 14:19.20 |
brlcad |
so there it
was saying that bob1961 (one of the brl-cad developers) made a
change, namely that he added the misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln
visual studio build file |
| 14:19.44 |
Defcon |
is it made in
visual studio? |
| 14:19.56 |
brlcad |
brl-cad is
cross-platform |
| 14:20.00 |
brlcad |
extensively |
| 14:20.03 |
Defcon |
nice |
| 14:20.21 |
Defcon |
but if you
guys are open source |
| 14:20.37 |
Defcon |
who pays for
the visual studio licence |
| 14:21.07 |
brlcad |
just because
we're open source doesn't mean we're broke and waiting for
hand-outs :) |
| 14:21.25 |
brlcad |
different for
each dev/contributor |
| 14:22.08 |
Defcon |
ohw
:) |
| 14:22.11 |
brlcad |
I buy what I
need, for example, in addition to the slew of open source software
I use and work on |
| 14:22.53 |
Defcon |
are you a C
programmer? |
| 14:23.01 |
brlcad |
I have
windows and studio but rarely use them myself, only from time to
time for brl-cad |
| 14:23.14 |
brlcad |
most of the
time, I use my macs, bsd, and linux |
| 14:23.20 |
Defcon |
nice |
| 14:23.39 |
Defcon |
btw: who are
u, 'cause i think brlcad can't speak for itselves |
| 14:23.39 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:23.49 |
``Erik |
he is
brlcad |
| 14:23.59 |
Defcon |
brlcad is an
app |
| 14:24.00 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:24.17 |
``Erik |
and defcon is
a military state system |
| 14:24.32 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 14:24.40 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:24.43 |
Defcon |
indeed |
| 14:24.50 |
Defcon |
from the
us |
| 14:24.57 |
Defcon |
i'm from
Belgium |
| 14:25.11 |
Defcon |
and a fellow
Developper, not a system :) |
| 14:25.41 |
``Erik |
well, you can
be a defense condition, and brlcad can be an app, it's all good
:D |
| 14:25.45 |
brlcad |
Defcon:
"brl-cad" is an app, "brlcad" is me :) |
| 14:25.51 |
``Erik |
I thought it
was BRL-CAD |
| 14:25.52 |
Defcon |
haha
ok |
| 14:25.57 |
brlcad |
that
too |
| 14:26.07 |
Defcon |
yeah, that's
more impressive |
| 14:26.07 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:26.25 |
Defcon |
man i love
the Stryker ICV w/ Slat Armor rendered with ADRT/RISE
render |
| 14:26.45 |
brlcad |
Twingy put
that one together |
| 14:26.50 |
brlcad |
pretty slick,
eh? |
| 14:26.59 |
``Erik |
I think that
took a week or two on an 18 core mini-cluster |
| 14:27.14 |
Defcon |
very
nice |
| 14:27.30 |
Defcon |
``Erik to
render? |
| 14:27.31 |
``Erik |
has all the
goodies turned on, depth of field, hypersampling, etc |
| 14:28.06 |
brlcad |
Defcon: so
you're a developer? |
| 14:28.11 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 14:28.12 |
``Erik |
5
days |
| 14:28.15 |
``Erik |
it's on the
image |
| 14:28.28 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 14:28.37 |
Defcon |
indeed
brlcad |
| 14:28.38 |
``Erik |
um, every
blade of grass and leaf is modelled |
| 14:28.41 |
brlcad |
then welcome
:) |
| 14:28.46 |
Defcon |
ty
:) |
| 14:28.55 |
``Erik |
there are no
textures, imposters, or anything |
| 14:28.59 |
brlcad |
lemme know
where we can get you hacking and contributing ;) |
| 14:29.13 |
Defcon |
hacking..?
:D |
| 14:29.24 |
brlcad |
it's a big
package, but don't let it be daunting -- feel free to ask questions
;) |
| 14:29.33 |
brlcad |
hacking ==
developing |
| 14:29.37 |
Defcon |
ohw
:) |
| 14:29.48 |
Defcon |
i'm an vb /
asp.net programmer |
| 14:30.13 |
Defcon |
so.. i dunno
if i can add something to your app |
| 14:30.13 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:30.43 |
brlcad |
hey, most
languages if you know them well translate to other languages
without too much effort |
| 14:30.45 |
Defcon |
BRL-CAD is
way to advanced for me |
| 14:31.57 |
``Erik |
<-- thinks
one of the biggest ways to improve your coding skill is to honestly
learn new languages and paradigms |
| 14:32.06 |
brlcad |
Defcon: so
then what's your interest? |
| 14:32.30 |
Defcon |
everything
that has to do something with coding :) |
| 14:32.37 |
brlcad |
it's too big
to qualitatively say that the *whole* thing is too advanced for you
:) |
| 14:32.45 |
``Erik |
and one of
the neater ways to do that might be to grab some tickle and write
modelling scripts, very quick to get very visual
results |
| 14:32.53 |
``Erik |
tcl |
| 14:33.02 |
Defcon |
tcl? |
| 14:33.12 |
``Erik |
the scripting
language we're using |
| 14:33.27 |
``Erik |
http://www.tcl.tk |
| 14:33.40 |
Defcon |
ah |
| 14:33.41 |
brlcad |
or even write
some procedural geometry stuff in VB for that matter |
| 14:34.08 |
brlcad |
just hook up
to the brl-cad dll's like you would for any language in
vb |
| 14:34.10 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-165.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:34.23 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 14:34.29 |
``Erik |
hm, vb stuff
tends not to work so well on mac, freebsd, openbsd, linux, irix,
solaris, ... |
| 14:34.30 |
Defcon |
i know how to
use dll's |
| 14:34.35 |
Defcon |
might be a
start |
| 14:35.04 |
``Erik |
ruby might be
sexier :D |
| 14:35.11 |
brlcad |
there are
tons of small example programs in src/proc-db (in C) and src/mk for
making procedural geometry, but it helps if you kinda had some sort
of goal in mind |
| 14:35.54 |
Defcon |
my goal now
is to find a goal |
| 14:35.55 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:36.12 |
Defcon |
that's one
reason i'm here |
| 14:36.41 |
brlcad |
lots of
potential goals here: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 14:37.13 |
brlcad |
though VB
won't help with most of them |
| 14:37.40 |
Defcon |
hmm |
| 14:37.41 |
Defcon |
Web
Work |
| 14:38.13 |
brlcad |
do you know
anything other than asp? |
| 14:38.19 |
Defcon |
vb
:) |
| 14:38.22 |
Defcon |
sql
server |
| 14:38.26 |
Defcon |
.. |
| 14:38.26 |
brlcad |
or are
interested in learning :) |
| 14:38.34 |
Defcon |
offcourse i
am |
| 14:38.35 |
brlcad |
something
like php or ruby or python |
| 14:38.48 |
Defcon |
why
those? |
| 14:39.06 |
``Erik |
the web stuff
is php on a freebsd server, backed by mysql I think |
| 14:39.20 |
Defcon |
ohw |
| 14:39.22 |
``Erik |
adrt/rise
uses some python |
| 14:39.36 |
brlcad |
mysql or
postgres or whatever is needed (but open source) |
| 14:40.10 |
Defcon |
i have worked
a very little bit with php, mysql and apache |
| 14:40.24 |
Defcon |
but that
knowledge is allready gone |
| 14:40.27 |
brlcad |
and I really
have no inclination of installing the fp extensions to apache ..
:) |
| 14:40.43 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:41.36 |
Defcon |
i started
leaning C once |
| 14:41.46 |
Defcon |
via the
interwebz |
| 14:41.53 |
brlcad |
php, ruby,
python, perl, lisp, etc, are all easy to set up if they're not set
up already |
| 14:41.57 |
Defcon |
and
Maloeran's app/game |
| 14:42.21 |
brlcad |
some more
ideas:
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/IDEAS |
| 14:42.28 |
``Erik |
his web space
thingy? I thought that was all striaght C, wrote his own httpd or
something |
| 14:42.45 |
Defcon |
indeed |
| 14:43.35 |
``Erik |
<-- has an
urge to learn 'ajax' with a CL backed server chunk
lately |
| 14:43.53 |
Defcon |
i know a bit
of ajax |
| 14:44.24 |
Defcon |
btw:
www.ectroverse.com |
| 14:44.34 |
Defcon |
mal's game is
still up and running |
| 14:44.45 |
``Erik |
http://www.cliki.net/CL-AJAX
<-- something I've been looking at |
| 14:44.46 |
Defcon |
completely
build in C |
| 14:45.07 |
Defcon |
i do not know
Lisp |
| 14:45.09 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:47.18 |
Defcon |
in mal's
sourcecode : void InitHTTP() |
| 14:47.38 |
Defcon |
so he basicly
wrote his own webserver? |
| 14:48.55 |
``Erik |
I think he
did... *shrug* I d'no, I never saw the code |
| 14:49.21 |
``Erik |
webservers
are easy to write, I had an assignment to write one at school many
years ago |
| 14:49.22 |
Defcon |
http://www.wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip |
| 14:49.30 |
Defcon |
really |
| 14:52.29 |
Defcon |
if it was
that easy, i would have made one |
| 14:52.58 |
Defcon |
btw: what is
an .o file? |
| 14:52.59 |
``Erik |
heh, yeah,
that's a standalone web server |
| 14:53.04 |
``Erik |
object |
| 14:53.11 |
``Erik |
um, you
probably recognize them as .obj |
| 14:53.11 |
Defcon |
and why isn't
that plain text |
| 14:53.12 |
Defcon |
ohw |
| 14:54.05 |
``Erik |
my, the thing
isn't threaded and doesn't seem to throw child processes, several
people playing at the same time would see delays in loading the
page O.o |
| 14:55.03 |
Defcon |
never had any
probs with that.. |
| 14:55.15 |
Defcon |
.ascx file
these days i gues |
| 14:55.19 |
Defcon |
*guess |
| 14:55.50 |
Defcon |
the
ectroverse server stats: http://shell2.skyberate.net:9120/status |
| 14:56.01 |
Defcon |
Server
program CPU usage ( average ) |
| 14:56.01 |
Defcon |
Total usage :
0.106 % |
| 14:56.01 |
Defcon |
In user mode
: 0.034 % |
| 14:56.02 |
Defcon |
In kernel
mode : 0.072 % |
| 14:56.59 |
Defcon |
+ the whole
game only uses 7mb RAM |
| 14:57.08 |
Defcon |
on the
server |
| 14:57.40 |
``Erik |
doesn't
change the fact that it's completely serial, if I looked at it with
a 300 baud modem, anyone else connecting would have to wait until I
finished getting the page before they could get theirs |
| 14:58.05 |
Defcon |
o'rly.. |
| 14:58.23 |
Defcon |
hopefully u
don't do that :) |
| 14:58.36 |
Defcon |
btw: how do u
see that? |
| 14:58.38 |
``Erik |
no, I'll use
the 1200 baud modem |
| 14:59.10 |
Defcon |
ok
:) |
| 14:59.11 |
``Erik |
the C, it's a
simple loop, no threading or forking |
| 14:59.57 |
Defcon |
hmm |
| 15:00.14 |
Defcon |
it will take
some time for me to understand that |
| 15:00.34 |
Defcon |
i've been
looking at his code since he made it in 2002/2003 |
| 15:01.00 |
Defcon |
and i still
don't understand a line from it |
| 15:01.38 |
``Erik |
erm, quit
looking a that pile and go write some trivial C programs to start
learning the language? :D *duck* |
| 15:02.34 |
Defcon |
haha
yeah |
| 15:02.45 |
Defcon |
but |
| 15:02.47 |
Defcon |
:p |
| 15:03.01 |
Defcon |
how do i
start learning C :) |
| 15:03.07 |
Defcon |
in windows
btw :) |
| 15:03.18 |
``Erik |
download a
free compiler? |
| 15:03.27 |
Defcon |
u know any
good ones? |
| 15:04.09 |
``Erik |
I usually
grab 'cygwin' when I have to do C on windows, but it emulates a
unix-ey environment... mingw32 ummmm, djgpp, msys... |
| 15:04.19 |
``Erik |
microsoft
offers their cc for free I think (but no ide on it) |
| 15:04.44 |
Defcon |
ok.. |
| 15:04.47 |
``Erik |
the first C I
wrote on a winderz computer was using 'pcc' and, um, "ultraedit32"
to write it |
| 15:04.52 |
Defcon |
cygwin, i'll
google that |
| 15:05.16 |
``Erik |
I think lcc
is free and available for windows, ummmm |
| 15:05.35 |
Defcon |
lcc, pcc,
..? |
| 15:05.39 |
Defcon |
lol |
| 15:05.50 |
``Erik |
'cc' stands
for "C compiler" in this context... |
| 15:06.25 |
Defcon |
i'll be using
Notepad++ in stead of ultraedit32 |
| 15:06.29 |
Defcon |
will that
work? |
| 15:06.54 |
``Erik |
as long as it
cna product ascii text... |
| 15:07.05 |
``Erik |
technically,
you could do it using 'word' :) |
| 15:07.41 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 15:07.47 |
``Erik |
if you like
living dangerously, 'gvim' and 'emacs' are both available on
windows, they're pretty heavy hitting editors with lots of goodies
for programmers |
| 15:08.09 |
Defcon |
but notepad++
has a C markup check thingie |
| 15:08.21 |
Defcon |
i like living
dangerously, but i'm at work atm |
| 15:08.23 |
Defcon |
so..
:) |
| 15:08.42 |
``Erik |
ooh, irc from
work, I'd never do anything like that *cough* O:-) |
| 15:08.48 |
Defcon |
:D |
| 15:10.19 |
Defcon |
anyway |
| 15:10.20 |
Defcon |
bbl |
| 15:34.45 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 15:39.59 |
brlcad |
Defcon: there
are plenty of good free compilers for windows -- there's mingw,
cygwin, and Dev-C++ as well as Visual Studio Express is even free
.. I'd suggest starting with that one with your background, then
just writing some simple console applications |
| 15:43.42 |
Z80-Boy |
free as in
beer |
| 15:45.09 |
Defcon |
i have the
Visual Studio Professional |
| 15:45.46 |
Defcon |
so i'm set to
go :) |
| 15:45.48 |
Defcon |
i
think |
| 15:47.07 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
just changed Ronja to use outlined 3D pictures. Now I am
recompiling all the pictures this way so when it's finished you can
see what it looks like. |
| 16:04.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877522.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:05.06 |
*** join/#brlcad Bariton
(n=Bary@p54877522.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:34.24 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 16:58.49 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.96.177) |
| 17:06.40 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 17:12.54 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (viewhide.c viewxray.c):
AmbientIntensity is already declared in optical.h |
| 17:43.19 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:30.42 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 18:30.55 |
yukonbob |
hello,
cadheads |
| 19:06.39 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 20:00.02 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:00.18 |
prasad_ |
howdy |
| 20:00.19 |
prasad_ |
:) |
| 20:13.39 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 20:23.23 |
brlcad |
howdy
prasad_ |
| 20:23.28 |
brlcad |
ltns |
| 20:28.53 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio_
(n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu) |
| 20:58.11 |
prasad_ |
hey
hey |
| 21:00.19 |
brlcad |
how goes
it? |
| 21:00.33 |
brlcad |
knocked up
and expecting yet? |
| 21:01.13 |
prasad_ |
haha
nah |
| 21:01.26 |
prasad_ |
damn wedding
reception in a month tho |
| 21:01.28 |
prasad_ |
pain |
| 21:01.30 |
prasad_ |
hehe |
| 21:01.44 |
prasad_ |
how's life at
the A-P-G ;) |
| 21:02.04 |
brlcad |
bout the same
as always |
| 21:02.28 |
brlcad |
some things
better, some things worse |
| 21:04.31 |
prasad_ |
ah
so |
| 21:04.43 |
prasad_ |
m3 still
chugging along? |
| 21:05.26 |
brlcad |
yup
yup |
| 21:05.36 |
brlcad |
even got some
fresh blood |
| 21:05.52 |
prasad_ |
cool
cool |
| 21:05.55 |
prasad_ |
same
mgmt? |
| 21:05.57 |
``Erik |
oi,
prasad |
| 21:06.13 |
prasad_ |
hey
yo |
| 21:06.14 |
brlcad |
prasad_: as
ever, save for acst |
| 21:06.24 |
``Erik |
had a going
away luncheon for the pm and business analyst today O.o |
| 21:06.33 |
prasad_ |
whoa |
| 21:06.42 |
prasad_ |
m3
pm? |
| 21:06.46 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:06.47 |
``Erik |
yup |
| 21:06.51 |
prasad_ |
haha! |
| 21:06.57 |
prasad_ |
reassigned? |
| 21:07.01 |
prasad_ |
demoted?? |
| 21:07.06 |
prasad_ |
*snicker* |
| 21:07.25 |
prasad_ |
ohh
wait |
| 21:08.09 |
``Erik |
um, sorta
kinda a 'lateral promotion' |
| 21:08.10 |
prasad_ |
im confusing
old pm with new |
| 21:08.10 |
prasad_ |
doh |
| 21:08.10 |
prasad_ |
damn.. been a
year |
| 21:08.20 |
``Erik |
still at the
videogame middleware place? vector ui stuff? |
| 21:08.27 |
prasad_ |
indeed |
| 21:08.37 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877522.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:08.39 |
prasad_ |
crysis and
mass effect |
| 21:08.44 |
prasad_ |
go get em
:P |
| 21:09.04 |
``Erik |
dude, wow
eats too much of my time already O.o |
| 21:09.13 |
``Erik |
I can't be
addin' on new gams |
| 21:09.16 |
prasad_ |
are you
serious??? |
| 21:09.17 |
prasad_ |
hahaha |
| 21:09.22 |
prasad_ |
never thought
u'd cave in |
| 21:09.40 |
``Erik |
gf brought
the discs over, made me install and try it |
| 21:09.56 |
prasad_ |
and the
addiction spreads |
| 21:09.59 |
prasad_ |
hehe |
| 21:10.39 |
prasad_ |
we've got a
cpl of wow heads here |
| 21:10.48 |
``Erik |
which
followed by a group of old friends I talk to on irc jumping into it
*sigh* |
| 21:11.29 |
prasad_ |
what are u
upto project wise |
| 21:12.41 |
``Erik |
<-- still
doing BRL-CAD |
| 21:13.17 |
``Erik |
tried to go
to cisd, but someone threw 3 tons of red tape on that
:/ |
| 21:13.32 |
prasad_ |
heh by old pm
i meant her |
| 21:13.35 |
prasad_ |
:o |
| 21:13.46 |
``Erik |
<--
assumed that |
| 21:14.15 |
prasad_ |
any ui
changes to brlcad? |
| 21:14.18 |
prasad_ |
or still the
same |
| 21:19.03 |
starseeker |
Sweeet.
Ebuild now installs into /usr/lib/brlcad |
| 21:24.58 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-74-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:28.35 |
dtidrow_work |
http://blogs.intel.com/research/2007/10/real_time_raytracing_the_end_o.html
- did you guys comment about this back in Oct.? |
| 21:31.07 |
``Erik |
probably, the
article lacks some details, so it makes it hard to be
certain |
| 21:31.48 |
``Erik |
intel has a
few big raytracing pushes going on, including a couple regular
presenters at siggraph *shrug* one would almost think they're
serious :) |
| 21:36.22 |
prasad_ |
u guys get a
cluster of ps3s yet? :P |
| 21:39.35 |
prasad_ |
heh im sure
they could |
| 21:47.48 |
*** join/#brlcad pH
(n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl) |
| 21:47.51 |
*** part/#brlcad pH
(n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl) |
| 22:10.12 |
Twingy |
hi
prasad |
| 22:20.19 |
prasad_ |
hey
justin |
| 22:20.25 |
prasad_ |
wassup |
| 22:31.21 |
prasad_ |
some in game
screens of crysis if u havent seen em already: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165243 |
| 22:38.41 |
Twingy |
very
nice! |
| 22:39.07 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
yeah, commented and duly yawned on it .. intel has been (rightly)
pushing ray-tracing to supplant raster for a couple years now --
the real trick is going to be opengl hooks to (easily) allow it,
which is still pretty far off (programmability isn't
suficient) |
| 22:39.58 |
brlcad |
too much of a
moving target, and the cpu-based approaches while good aren't
nearly even as open as opengl was at its inception (nor as well
coordinated) |
| 22:40.53 |
brlcad |
prasad_:
thems rather impressive screenshots |
| 22:41.01 |
prasad_ |
rastered
;) |
| 22:41.08 |
brlcad |
yep, very
nice |
| 22:41.22 |
prasad_ |
~1-2M
tris |
| 22:42.10 |
brlcad |
prasad_: and
how many procedural shaders? :) |
| 22:42.11 |
prasad_ |
to be fair
that example isn't really feasible for a game |
| 22:42.23 |
prasad_ |
maybe in
about 2 gfx hw cycles, they'll get good perf |
| 22:42.46 |
brlcad |
yeah.. 1GB
mem use is a bit intense for commodity |
| 22:42.47 |
prasad_ |
quite a lot,
but cryengine's editor is mighty easy to use |
| 22:42.59 |
prasad_ |
that's RAM
usage btw |
| 22:43.05 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-74-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:43.05 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work
(n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:43.09 |
brlcad |
ah,
fun |
| 22:43.25 |
brlcad |
wonder how
much tex mem |
| 22:44.01 |
prasad_ |
id say prolly
around 200 |
| 22:45.39 |
prasad_ |
iirc one of
our devs is going to present a paper at the next
siggraph |
| 22:45.44 |
prasad_ |
wonder if
they'll let me go :P |
| 22:47.11 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 22:49.51 |
prasad_ |
brlcad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBp3LxAetHk |
| 23:02.49 |
*** part/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 23:12.46 |
starseeker |
This should
at least put brl-cad in the "proper" location - now we're probably
down to calling the autogen.sh script and the hostility to using
internal copies of libs (some of which don't even HAVE ebuilds yet
for their stand-alone versions...) |
| 23:18.40 |
louipc |
starseeker:
where do you put the executables? |
| 23:20.16 |
starseeker |
louipc:
/usr/lib/brlcad/bin |
| 23:20.22 |
starseeker |
louipc: Then
I add that to PATH |
| 23:20.30 |
starseeker |
(gentoo has a
mechanism for that) |
| 23:22.51 |
starseeker |
louipc: Got
a gentoo box handy? ;-) |
| 23:23.47 |
louipc |
nope |
| 23:24.14 |
louipc |
hmm I might
look into doing the same for my pkg |
| 23:24.31 |
starseeker |
It's the only
safe way to stick it in the /usr tree |
| 23:24.42 |
starseeker |
And they're
quite insistent about it not going anywhere else... |
| 23:24.50 |
louipc |
hehe
yeah |
| 23:25.39 |
starseeker |
I also add
/usr/lib/brlcad/man to the MANPATH, so man mged does something
useful too ;-) |
| 23:25.47 |
louipc |
but brlcad is
a huge package, my distro would probably be ok with it being in
/opt also considering the potential conflicts, but there's been an
initiative recently to move things to /usr |
| 23:26.22 |
louipc |
you could
probably put the manpages in the regular manpath non? |
| 23:26.50 |
brlcad |
i am
not! |
| 23:26.56 |
starseeker |
Only if no
internal tcl/tk goodies are installed - they conflict with system
packages |
| 23:26.58 |
brlcad |
I'm rather
short, actually |
| 23:27.45 |
louipc |
oh right
hah |
| 23:28.11 |
starseeker |
Eventually
Gentoo would probably be able to supply enough external libs that
the internal ones wouldn't be needed, but that'll be a long
struggle |
| 23:28.29 |
starseeker |
(considering
we're coming up on the THREE YEAR MARK for the main brl-cad bug...
ahem) |
| 23:28.32 |
brlcad |
but I do
_have_ a huge package *ahem* |
| 23:28.37 |
brlcad |
er, never
mind |
| 23:28.43 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 23:29.02 |
louipc |
brlcad: good
to know |
| 23:29.03 |
brlcad |
thank you,
I'm here all week |
| 23:29.12 |
brlcad |
try the
lobster bisque |
| 23:29.26 |
louipc |
now I'm
hungry |
| 23:29.35 |
starseeker |
mmm
food... |
| 23:29.58 |
louipc |
I think I'll
go buy some RAM |
| 23:30.10 |
starseeker |
That's rather
crunchy |
| 23:30.14 |
brlcad |
hehe, "And
what exactly are you supposed to do when printf() returns false?
Display an error message? " |
| 23:30.31 |
starseeker |
I think you
have the computer yell something ;-) |
| 23:31.42 |
louipc |
make it emit
a foul odour |
| 23:34.00 |
louipc |
I wonder what
scent static or white noise would smell like |
| 23:34.32 |
starseeker |
Maybe that's
what I smell when I walk by a perfume counter in a department
store... |
| 23:38.25 |
louipc |
nice |
| 23:49.06 |
louipc |
indeed! |
| 23:49.22 |
starseeker |
Considering
how old the system is, there's a lot of stuff there - compresses
down with gzip to slightly over 118 megs |
| 23:58.00 |
``Erik |
er |
| 23:58.11 |
``Erik |
you had three
sushi lunches, dude |
| 00:00.06 |
``Erik |
and printf
can puke at complex or generated format strings, or if stdout is
gimpy, so a nice 'safe' (without allocations or fmt parsing)
display to stderr MIGHT be helpful... :D |
| 00:02.13 |
``Erik |
kinda looks
like a bsd-ish license, ya gonna post your multics tarball
somewhere? or ask 'em to provide one on their site? heh |
| 00:27.53 |
*** part/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 01:50.36 |
starseeker |
Heh - If they
were going to provide one I'd assume they would have done so
already - it's the most obvious thing to do. |
| 01:51.02 |
starseeker |
As for
posting it somewhere, I would but I'm not sure where I can post it
- I don't really have my own website... |
| 01:53.10 |
``Erik |
I
d'no |
| 01:53.12 |
``Erik |
it's
mit... |
| 01:53.32 |
starseeker |
They may not
want a lot of nerds randomly downloading 118 megs... |
| 01:53.33 |
``Erik |
some smart
people there, but I think almost all of them thnk they're a lot
smarter than they are |
| 01:57.28 |
starseeker |
Heh -
probably. |
| 02:03.39 |
starseeker |
Grrrrrrr.
What is Gentoo up to on the AMD64 platform with
itcl/itk?? |
| 02:17.19 |
``Erik |
hey, uh,
brlcad |
| 02:17.29 |
``Erik |
ctrl+opt+cmd+8 |
| 02:19.04 |
poolio |
inverted
colors iirc? |
| 02:46.32 |
brlcad |
yes? |
| 02:47.57 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
you're welcome to an account on .bz if you want |
| 02:53.59 |
``Erik |
negative,
yes, quite sharp of you, hoolio |
| 02:54.27 |
starseeker |
brlcad: That
would be nice.. |
| 02:54.49 |
``Erik |
speaking of,
is that file still accurate? |
| 02:55.51 |
poolio |
``Erik: I
only know it cause I'd use it for mischief on others'
computers. |
| 02:57.03 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:57.07 |
``Erik |
um |
| 02:57.31 |
``Erik |
in '96 or so,
I convinced a friend to get an x86 and install linux... he was a
mac guy |
| 02:57.39 |
``Erik |
he invited me
in and rooted me up to check over his box |
| 02:57.50 |
``Erik |
so I dd's the
kernel to the audio out |
| 02:57.56 |
``Erik |
and opened
and closed the cdrom a few times |
| 02:57.59 |
``Erik |
freaked him
out :D |
| 02:58.38 |
poolio |
heh, i was
more of a fan of cat, but yeah, that's always fun. |
| 02:58.54 |
poolio |
man, 2nd
semester in a row Im not getting the programming course I want.
this sucks. |
| 02:59.08 |
``Erik |
what
course? |
| 02:59.10 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Mightn't they put their eyebrows up at a 118M tarball of an ancient
OS though? ;-) |
| 02:59.33 |
poolio |
Intro to
Computer Systems...there are already 110 people on the waitlist
(all not freshmen) and the class is only 150 |
| 02:59.52 |
``Erik |
SOUTHPARK
TIME |
| 03:00.06 |
``Erik |
aren't you a
little past that? |
| 03:00.24 |
poolio |
``Erik: It's
low level C, doing stuff like implementing a proxy, rewriting
malloc, etc... |
| 03:00.30 |
louipc |
what's Intro
to Computer Systems? "this is the monitor, this is the
keyboard?" |
| 03:00.31 |
poolio |
I know most
of it but not enough to place out of it |
| 03:00.32 |
``Erik |
oh |
| 03:00.42 |
``Erik |
aight,
cool |
| 03:00.45 |
louipc |
ah ok
:D |
| 03:00.56 |
poolio |
Prepares you
for the class after that, OS, which is ridiculously hard...you
write your own OS :P |
| 03:01.08 |
louipc |
damnit
Erik |
| 03:01.10 |
``Erik |
I was afraid
you meant like "this program is called excdell, you can put numbers
in it" type work |
| 03:01.17 |
``Erik |
writing an OS
all depends on the hw |
| 03:01.36 |
``Erik |
x86 is
horribly ugly with the nasty gdt/idt/isr hacks |
| 03:01.52 |
``Erik |
um, proxy's
and malloc are pretty easy |
| 03:02.16 |
poolio |
yeah, I mean
213 shouldn't be too bad, but it will be good practice before I get
my ass kicked in OS |
| 03:02.41 |
``Erik |
cmu is
actually the school I really want ot go to for my grad
work |
| 03:03.06 |
``Erik |
of the
handful of 'best for cs' schools, it matches my interests
most |
| 03:03.30 |
``Erik |
<-- very
into os's and languages |
| 03:04.04 |
louipc |
do you folks
know a good school for electrical engineering? |
| 03:07.20 |
starseeker |
``Erik: How
are you going to go there while working on BRL-CAD? |
| 03:07.54 |
``Erik |
in theory,
ARL "supports" 'long term training' |
| 03:08.01 |
starseeker |
Ah. |
| 03:08.26 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Should I send you any info for the .bz account? |
| 03:08.59 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 03:09.01 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: AHA!
I had added the final tclcad_auto_path() call... just not to the
mged init |
| 03:09.03 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
routine. it was only added to bwish (those two really should
syncronize their |
| 03:09.05 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: init
routines into tclcad or something). this "should" fix the "gui"
error. |
| 03:09.14 |
``Erik |
real name,
shell preference, and mebbe ssh pub keys, otherwise he'd have to
make you a temp passwd |
| 03:09.25 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
they? |
| 03:09.39 |
starseeker |
Whoever hosts
bz and pays for bandwidth |
| 03:09.45 |
brlcad |
.bz is not a
gov't server |
| 03:09.52 |
brlcad |
ah, then
'they' == 'me' :) |
| 03:09.54 |
``Erik |
'they' is
brlcad |
| 03:09.54 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 03:10.25 |
``Erik |
(though I
might try to do something with the machine that I might feel
obligated to hand brlcad a little scratch for in the
future...." |
| 03:10.44 |
brlcad |
it's got
several names that point to it at this point, the fqdn of the
primary ip is bz.bzflag.bz |
| 03:11.13 |
``Erik |
brlcad, did I
miss anything in my list of info? |
| 03:11.14 |
brlcad |
though it's
also my.brlcad.org, ftp.brlcad.org, and a couple dozen other
names |
| 03:11.40 |
brlcad |
what list of
info? |
| 03:11.50 |
``Erik |
real name,
shell, ssh pub key... |
| 03:12.00 |
``Erik |
like, 2
minutes ago... |
| 03:12.12 |
``Erik |
fucking
attention span of a squirrel on speed |
| 03:12.14 |
brlcad |
oh, I missed
that (rather, i've only skimmed my logs |
| 03:12.20 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 03:12.30 |
brlcad |
ah, there it
be after cia |
| 03:12.51 |
brlcad |
which,
luckily we don't have one of the broken cia bots |
| 03:13.18 |
brlcad |
one of them
is rather dead and has been for many days now, scanline's been
pretty latent in doing anything about it |
| 03:14.11 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
almost everything |
| 03:42.30 |
``Erik |
I installed a
bunch of stuff, btu I didn't do "setup", which should just be
copying files |
| 03:43.14 |
``Erik |
uh |
| 03:43.23 |
``Erik |
18% faster
than the old machine??? |
| 03:43.47 |
brlcad |
yeah
:/ |
| 03:43.48 |
``Erik |
oohhhh,
wait |
| 03:43.57 |
brlcad |
cpu |
| 03:43.59 |
``Erik |
it was
already a reasonably fast machine |
| 03:44.05 |
``Erik |
2.4
celery |
| 03:44.08 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
not too shabby |
| 03:44.19 |
``Erik |
I dunno what
I was thinking it was like a 667mhz |
| 03:44.24 |
brlcad |
went from 2.4
celery to 2.4 penguin |
| 03:46.24 |
``Erik |
just a
p4 |
| 03:46.32 |
``Erik |
not like ya
stepped up to an opteron |
| 03:47.55 |
``Erik |
all the
accounts are 'migrated'? sans home dir? |
| 03:51.39 |
brlcad |
gubby mint
connotation wasn't implied :) |
| 03:51.45 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:51.46 |
``Erik |
well |
| 03:52.04 |
``Erik |
penguin ain't
a gov't co, they just got real lucky selling some
silly-cone |
| 03:52.13 |
brlcad |
yep, all
accounts work like a charm now .. migrating the filessytems this
weekend |
| 03:53.05 |
``Erik |
in I think
'99, I wrote an opengl screen saver for a company doing high
perofrmance linux stuff |
| 03:53.34 |
``Erik |
I dont' even
remembertheir name |
| 03:54.03 |
``Erik |
but they were
based in kc, several of my local buddies went up there to work for
them, they kinda snuck me the ss dealie |
| 03:54.38 |
``Erik |
wanted their
logo displayed over apool of rippling water... I added a couple
moving lights influenced by a mutual gravity type
algorithm |
| 03:54.53 |
``Erik |
then a couple
formed another company in kansas to compete |
| 03:55.21 |
``Erik |
and one of
them went and committed suicide :( |
| 03:55.51 |
``Erik |
'atipa' in
kc, |
| 03:58.09 |
starseeker |
And here it
is, thanks to brlcad - a Multics tarball :-) |
| 03:58.20 |
starseeker |
http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/ |
| 04:01.45 |
``Erik |
brlcad, I put
our mortal accounts in the wheel group... Idunno who else is on
admit, but it might be worth making that disappear |
| 04:04.56 |
brlcad |
making what
disappear? |
| 04:05.05 |
brlcad |
oh, making
admin disappear |
| 04:05.12 |
brlcad |
yeah,
mebbie |
| 04:05.26 |
starseeker |
Well, now all
we need is a Multics hardware simulator and we can try reliving the
glory days on Multics with BRL-CAD ;-) |
| 04:05.34 |
brlcad |
though I
usually put an impossible password on that and use that when I have
to give the ISP a user/pass to fix things |
| 04:05.49 |
starseeker |
Hehehe |
| 04:24.04 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: match what mged does
order-wise |
| 04:29.56 |
``Erik |
I assume that
the set of people with access to that file is greater than
2 |
| 04:41.31 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 04:42.14 |
brlcad |
it'll go
through surges of completion, my goal is to be done by the end of
this month |
| 04:42.22 |
brlcad |
so a bunch
this weekend and next |
| 05:07.07 |
poolio |
Hmm, could I
ask a question re: svn organization? |
| 05:07.25 |
brlcad |
go for
it |
| 05:08.05 |
brlcad |
there's two
main common techniques |
| 05:08.11 |
brlcad |
s/techniques/structures/ |
| 05:09.06 |
poolio |
So I'm
working on a project with a bunch of people, and the established
method they have is each sub-project has its own branch, and when
their code is stable they commit it to trunk. The issue I am having
is that it's a pain to download an entirely diferent branch when
you want to see their stuff and you end up with like 20 different
branches |
| 05:10.03 |
poolio |
Is that
considered a normal practice? |
| 05:19.45 |
brlcad |
there's no
universal practice, that's not unheard of in the least |
| 05:20.22 |
brlcad |
just rather
heavy-process undoubtedly to maintain the trunk as stable as
possible |
| 05:21.00 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r298
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: add echo
support |
| 05:24.18 |
``Erik |
um, I know
with cvs, the usual behavior I've seen is most hot development
happens in head |
| 05:24.42 |
``Erik |
releases are
either rbanchend or tagged (big ones branch, sometimes two levels
like fbsd) |
| 05:25.16 |
``Erik |
any radical
'subproject' might get a branch, sometimes in a different
VCS |
| 05:25.34 |
``Erik |
fbsd has a
lot of 'radicals' in perforce, for example |
| 05:29.27 |
brlcad |
that's also
in part because branches are more of a bitch in cvs than svn, so
they're more minimized |
| 05:30.07 |
brlcad |
svn isn't
great on the branches, but it does do at least improve upon how
easy it is to maintain a branch and merge |
| 05:31.07 |
brlcad |
but i've
heard that same sub-project structure in cvs where each dev
maintains a branch |
| 05:31.38 |
brlcad |
just a matter
of familiarity/comfort with the level of effort, and the
stability/integration tradeoffs |
| 05:32.17 |
brlcad |
which
apparently isn't your cup of tea, but if there are already that
many devs working that way, then they're probably quite accustomed
to that process (asuming the project is active) |
| 05:34.22 |
brlcad |
hm, did just
verify that yukonbob's bad pixels are floating point
fuzz |
| 05:38.45 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r299 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws |
| 05:40.03 |
``Erik |
if you go
branch heavy, EVERYONE needs to be damn good at resolving
conflicts |
| 05:40.17 |
``Erik |
otherwise,
everyone needs to be good and updating and commiting
often |
| 05:40.23 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 05:40.24 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r300 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws2 |
| 05:41.07 |
brlcad |
it'd suck for
my taste to go to that extent, but I can easily see projects/people
that'd go that route for grandios claims |
| 05:41.28 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r301 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws 3 |
| 05:43.08 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r302 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: still more
whitespace |
| 05:45.07 |
poolio |
Yeah, it's
firmly established, and I'm just a new freshmen so it's not likely
that I can make them change. It works for them though, just has
been kinda a pain to keep track of and see what the different
senior members are working on |
| 05:45.14 |
poolio |
And thanks
for the replies guys :) |
| 05:46.41 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r303
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: Add CIA echo
capability |
| 05:49.53 |
``Erik |
blah |
| 05:50.09 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r304
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: only parse
the master if we aren't doing an echo |
| 05:51.58 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r305
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: log the
target channel on an echo |
| 06:04.07 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r306 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/readme.txt:
mention echos |
| 06:04.52 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r307
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: allow more
then one CIA echo target per input channel and project |
| 06:17.41 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r309 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: do a
safer erase that won't geek windows on a user part. |
| 06:39.00 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r311
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: if the line
in the channel dosn't have a : then don't even try to parse it for
a CIA echo |
| 07:45.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 09:14.05 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:02.06 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-065-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:21.01 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 13:27.54 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/qray.c: Mods to use librt's qray
routines. This fixes the inability to adjust the format strings and
shrinks MGED's code base a tiny bit. Note - after testing on unix
the if'ed out code can be removed. |
| 13:29.42 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Expose a few more
functions in librt. |
| 14:12.40 |
*** join/#brlcad poolio
(n=poolio@c-71-236-67-238.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 14:20.45 |
brlcad |
howdy
poolio |
| 14:21.44 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Added a few more
projects. |
| 14:22.10 |
poolio |
mornin' |
| 14:25.41 |
``Erik |
yargh,
matey |
| 14:27.30 |
poolio |
All my
classes are slowly but surely filling up and I can't register for
another hour |
| 14:27.36 |
poolio |
grargh. |
| 14:31.41 |
``Erik |
that's
usually the way it goes... seniority gets first stab... |
| 14:32.03 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (12 files in 12 dirs):
Initial check-in. |
| 14:32.49 |
``Erik |
have ya
figured out the full dependancy graph to figure out what classes
you need to take first to keep your total stay short? |
| 14:33.15 |
``Erik |
I had to load
up on math early on, didn't do much cs the first year |
| 14:34.33 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (btclsh/btclsh.vcproj
bwish/bwish.vcproj): Increase optimization. |
| 14:34.33 |
``Erik |
heh, by the
time I finish an update and build, bob checks in smething else, so
I have to do it again O.o :D |
| 14:34.54 |
poolio |
slow
poke. |
| 14:34.59 |
Defcon |
:D |
| 14:35.29 |
``Erik |
I'm doing a
cvs -qz3 up -Pd at the top level dir, I'm sure if I'd cd into where
he's making a mess, it'd go faster |
| 14:35.49 |
``Erik |
and when he
changes something like, y'know, raytrace.h ... |
| 14:37.32 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Turn off
debugging. |
| 14:39.26 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Add 12
more projects. |
| 14:46.28 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob enabled/fixed the embedded
framebuffer in the windows port and has added a slew of other
missing utilities (too many to enumerate, but it's all of the
ray-tracers). |
| 14:47.55 |
``Erik |
bah |
| 14:48.28 |
``Erik |
I finally get
the winderz box back on the net, call hlepdesk to get my email
passwd reset, and the entire site is having an email
outage |
| 14:49.10 |
``Erik |
accepting
exchange for the calendar stuff was a mistake :/ |
| 14:49.23 |
``Erik |
shoulda stuck
with good old unix mail, it 'just works' |
| 15:30.41 |
PrezKennedy |
wish we could
use some unix boxes here |
| 15:30.50 |
PrezKennedy |
for essential
stuff |
| 15:35.36 |
``Erik |
nice http://qdb.us/101461 |
| 15:36.37 |
``Erik |
when I was at
school, I got to watch 6 old aix boxes get replaced with "a couple"
shiney new fast NT boxes |
| 15:37.00 |
``Erik |
by the time
the functionality was back to the same level for 'critical'
services like email and web, there were over 300 nt
servers |
| 15:40.43 |
PrezKennedy |
one for each
person? |
| 15:40.44 |
PrezKennedy |
:-) |
| 15:41.09 |
``Erik |
close to one
for every ten people, I think, I dunno |
| 15:42.46 |
``Erik |
(and the cs
and math depts propped up their own servers, so they could stay
useful... cs had a dual core fbsd beasty, math had a cheap desktop
type running linux) |
| 15:55.42 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad1
(n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:29.42 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 16:34.20 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548759F3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:59.34 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: there
are serious problem with accuracy of what rt-edge
produces |
| 16:59.41 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: like
it sometimes leaves out whole edges |
| 16:59.52 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: is
there any remedy to that? |
| 17:04.35 |
``Erik |
um, make your
thing bigger for raytracing? |
| 17:05.35 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 17:11.54 |
SkunkyFunky |
``Erik: but
it leaves out edges which are not minuscule at all and the
cylinders between which they are are also major cylinders in the
model. |
| 17:13.02 |
``Erik |
um, iirc, it
looks for a neighbor hit distance and uses a fixed distance to see
if it should call that an edge... and I think it might just look at
horizontal neighbors :/ |
| 17:22.38 |
SkunkyFunky |
I |
| 17:22.46 |
SkunkyFunky |
I'll post the
picture later the edge is 45 degrees |
| 17:31.32 |
brlcad |
SkunkyFunky:
do you know the depth across the edge? |
| 17:31.42 |
brlcad |
it's an
absolute size, iirc |
| 17:32.00 |
brlcad |
so if you're
model is small, it won't see the edge |
| 17:32.14 |
``Erik |
man that is
freakin' ugly code :( |
| 17:32.19 |
brlcad |
there's not
presently a run-time way to change that depth (would be a good mod
to make) |
| 17:32.43 |
brlcad |
meh, didn't
think it was all that horrible |
| 17:33.25 |
brlcad |
easy enough
to understand regardless |
| 17:38.23 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: 10mm
or so |
| 17:38.28 |
SkunkyFunky |
and the thing
is like 700mm big |
| 17:38.59 |
brlcad |
that's
probably why |
| 17:39.08 |
``Erik |
scale it up
to rtedge |
| 17:39.10 |
``Erik |
like |
| 17:39.10 |
SkunkyFunky |
How big is
the hardcoded constant? |
| 17:39.17 |
``Erik |
10-20m
big |
| 17:39.28 |
SkunkyFunky |
10-20
meters? |
| 17:40.04 |
``Erik |
yeah, that
should fix it :D |
| 17:40.08 |
SkunkyFunky |
but that's a
design relying on arbitrary constants, that cannot work reliably by
principle |
| 17:40.18 |
``Erik |
yes, it
sucks, it needs to be fixed |
| 17:41.14 |
SkunkyFunky |
can it be
done without the constant by principle at all? |
| 17:41.33 |
SkunkyFunky |
does anyone
have jdk-1_5_0_10-linux-i586.bin? |
| 17:41.41 |
brlcad |
SkunkyFunky:
it's not a hardcoded constant |
| 17:41.43 |
SkunkyFunky |
LFS needs it
but the Sun downloads don't have it anymore/ |
| 17:41.47 |
brlcad |
it's based on
the cell size |
| 17:41.49 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: where
can it be set? |
| 17:41.53 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad:
what's a cell size? |
| 17:41.58 |
brlcad |
in the code,
look for this: |
| 17:41.59 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.04 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.09 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.17 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.19 |
brlcad |
<PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.38 |
SkunkyFunky |
where does 87
come from? An universal extraterrestrial constant? |
| 17:43.28 |
brlcad |
would have to
look at lgt |
| 17:43.50 |
brlcad |
probably just
derived from experimental sampling of vehicles |
| 17:44.06 |
brlcad |
value is of
course, 19.08 |
| 17:44.09 |
SkunkyFunky |
My Ronja is
not a vehicle that's the problem |
| 17:44.13 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 17:44.16 |
brlcad |
a long known
issue |
| 17:44.23 |
SkunkyFunky |
How many
wheels do I have to implement to become a vehicle? |
| 17:44.28 |
brlcad |
like I said,
it'd be a great mod to make |
| 17:44.52 |
SkunkyFunky |
I could make
a field Ronja with 4 balooney wheels |
| 17:45.10 |
SkunkyFunky |
or with
caterpillar tracks for better traction in swampy
terrains |
| 17:45.15 |
brlcad |
wasn't just
vehicles, probably just a random sampling of models |
| 17:45.23 |
brlcad |
but then I'm
just entirely guessing |
| 17:45.37 |
brlcad |
rtedge guy
took it from lgt, lgt does back 15+ years |
| 17:45.55 |
SkunkyFunky |
and back then
they tossed a coin |
| 17:46.15 |
SkunkyFunky |
or a cow or
whatever was used for payment at that times ;-) |
| 17:47.00 |
brlcad |
flipping a
coin and get 87, don't think so |
| 17:47.38 |
SkunkyFunky |
I just got an
idea of acoustic burglar alarm based on speaker-microphone
feedback |
| 17:48.04 |
SkunkyFunky |
Put a
microphone and speaker into some space and when a person passes
they create a reflection which reflects with >1 loop gain and
oscillation is created |
| 17:48.17 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: maybe
they flipped a 100 dollar bill and got 87? |
| 17:48.26 |
SkunkyFunky |
from the
devaluation? ;-) |
| 17:49.14 |
SkunkyFunky |
or 2 speakers
transmitting in opposite phase and a microphone just between
them |
| 17:49.37 |
SkunkyFunky |
with high
gain. In clear state it zeroes out almost perfectly and when
someone breaks the acoustic field it starts a shrill |
| 17:49.39 |
brlcad |
commit
message from gary moss (back in '88) was simply "Added distance
discriminant map to hiddenline drawing model." |
| 17:50.00 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: isn't
this constant an inevitable part of the algorithm? |
| 17:50.13 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: or is
it a way to identify an edge without any constant? |
| 17:50.21 |
SkunkyFunky |
I mean of
course dynamically calculated constant as you said |
| 17:50.42 |
brlcad |
either way,
it's been a long-known limitation that it's cellsize dependent --
what it means, though, is that you may be able to generate a bigger
image to get the edge (add an edge thickness) |
| 17:51.16 |
brlcad |
SkunkyFunky:
edges are determined (in rtedge) via multiple checks, depth simply
being the main driver for most models |
| 17:51.18 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad:
bigger image you mean more pixels by more pixels? |
| 17:51.26 |
brlcad |
sharp changes
in curvature will do it too |
| 17:51.31 |
brlcad |
yes |
| 17:51.53 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: I
cannot find the edge thickness in brlman rtedge |
| 17:52.16 |
SkunkyFunky |
-c Set
special rtedge configuration variables |
| 17:52.20 |
SkunkyFunky |
Is it one of
them? |
| 17:52.56 |
brlcad |
the fix is to
just make it a settable depth since there's not really a good way
to determine the edges desired for arbitrary models without brep
conversion |
| 17:53.01 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: minor
clean-up |
| 17:53.05 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's a
-c var |
| 17:53.59 |
brlcad |
i
think |
| 17:54.14 |
SkunkyFunky |
can't find
it |
| 17:55.32 |
brlcad |
ah, my
mistake, no such option |
| 17:55.48 |
SkunkyFunky |
:( |
| 17:55.51 |
SkunkyFunky |
That would be
handy |
| 17:56.05 |
brlcad |
you can still
generate the larger image and it should give the edge if
sufficiently big |
| 17:56.20 |
brlcad |
assuming you
don't exceed the max image dimensions of course |
| 17:56.26 |
SkunkyFunky |
yes but how
do I make the edge thicker before downsampling the image to overlay
with the raytraced model? |
| 17:56.31 |
SkunkyFunky |
which
is? |
| 17:56.36 |
SkunkyFunky |
(another
hardcoded constat?) |
| 17:56.56 |
SkunkyFunky |
is there some
pixspread or pixerode program? |
| 17:57.00 |
SkunkyFunky |
or
pixgrow |
| 17:57.08 |
SkunkyFunky |
pixshrink |
| 17:58.23 |
brlcad |
the max
"should" be uint x uint (so about 2billion x 2billion) but there
are various temp buffers throughout that haven't been all weeded
out yet, so practically it's probably more like 64k x
64k |
| 17:59.07 |
brlcad |
either way,
it's more than photoshop could handle before CS came out
:) |
| 17:59.09 |
SkunkyFunky |
that's
enough |
| 17:59.19 |
SkunkyFunky |
Counterstrike? |
| 17:59.25 |
brlcad |
Photoshop
CS |
| 17:59.33 |
SkunkyFunky |
Czechoslovak
edition? |
| 17:59.43 |
brlcad |
beats me,
google it up |
| 18:00.22 |
brlcad |
for your
purpose, you really could just use the configurable
depth |
| 18:00.34 |
brlcad |
there ya
go |
| 18:01.26 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: but
the the edges are jagged anyway |
| 18:01.38 |
SkunkyFunky |
often looks
good but often looks ugly too |
| 18:01.44 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: allow users to set
arbitrary distance threshholds |
| 18:01.48 |
SkunkyFunky |
is the rtedge
substantially faster than rt? |
| 18:01.55 |
SkunkyFunky |
``Erik:
Thanks :) |
| 18:02.13 |
SkunkyFunky |
O.O |
| 18:03.10 |
brlcad |
SkunkyFunky:
yes, rtedge does considerably less work than rt |
| 18:03.20 |
brlcad |
so it's
faster in what it does |
| 18:05.18 |
SkunkyFunky |
brlcad: did
you find out why that model was 291x slower than the other
ones? |
| 18:06.12 |
``Erik |
think that
deserves a NEWS line? |
| 18:06.13 |
brlcad |
the reason
was exactly what john mentioned |
| 18:06.17 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
definitely does |
| 18:06.48 |
brlcad |
every
user-visible non-dev change |
| 18:07.01 |
brlcad |
don't forget
the manpage ;) |
| 18:07.03 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtedge.1: mention the new
max_dist option |
| 18:07.19 |
``Erik |
huh? |
| 18:07.20 |
``Erik |
the
what? |
| 18:07.48 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 18:08.03 |
``Erik |
<-- had
already hit enter on the commit when he asked if it was worth
NEWS... :) |
| 18:08.07 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention max_dist option for
rtedge |
| 18:09.47 |
``Erik |
some, um,
interesting little details... it doesn't buffer anything up, so the
edge 'detection' only uses two pixels, the one immediately below
and the one to the left O.o |
| 18:10.32 |
brlcad |
yeah, ron
talked about that way back when |
| 18:11.00 |
brlcad |
it was enough
just to get it working at the time, he had all sorts of plans for
improving it.. |
| 18:11.09 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 18:41.33 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r313
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: |
| 18:41.33 |
CIA-27 |
libirc: save
off the echo settings on a flush |
| 18:42.01 |
CIA-27 |
libirc: add
command to set echos in realtime |
| 19:31.25 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 19:31.46 |
yukonbob |
hello,
whirled |
| 20:18.50 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:23.17 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@77-56-74-13.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:24.40 |
*** join/#brlcad cad47
(n=422090d9@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:38.22 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
actually rt takes 1.6 sec and rtedge 3.18 sec CPU time |
| 20:38.52 |
Z80-Boy |
I have
noticed there seems to be some kind of preparation phase before the
raytracing itself. And this takes significant amount of
time. |
| 20:39.10 |
Z80-Boy |
Can this time
be saved if I have the same geometry and output just different
azimuths? |
| 20:46.18 |
Z80-Boy |
clock@kestrel:~$ anim_script -a
10 |
| 20:46.18 |
Z80-Boy |
Segmentation
fault (core dumped) |
| 20:46.19 |
Z80-Boy |
Ouch |
| 21:59.52 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-065-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 21:59.53 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:00.58 |
*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:00.58 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:00.58 |
*** join/#brlcad ``Erik
(i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:00.58 |
*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:00.58 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-27 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:00.58 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by
irc.freenode.net |
| 22:01.03 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-18-244.hr.hr.cox.net) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 22:01.45 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-18-244.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 22:01.46 |
starseeker |
wee |
| 22:08.44 |
``Erik |
aa
heh |
| 22:08.51 |
``Erik |
rfc1459, yo
:D |
| 22:11.21 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fchmod() |
| 22:11.40 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't have fchmod or
_fchmod apparently |
| 22:14.49 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: according to
the sources, this is still 4.0.1 |
| 22:16.47 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fchmod.c: rework bu_fchmod() to use
HAVE_FCHMOD feature, falling back to chmod if it's not available.
add missing footer. convert to unix line endings. |
| 22:18.50 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.110.131) |
| 22:50.00 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (cadAppInit.c winMain.c):
dos->unix line terminators |
| 22:50.18 |
``Erik |
<-- not
gonna dork with the 3 in libz |
| 23:03.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Some outlined
drawings |
| 23:03.58 |
Z80-Boy |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded_cut_0.png |
| 23:04.30 |
Z80-Boy |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_0.png |
| 23:16.14 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: I
figured you were doing that :) |
| 23:16.15 |
brlcad |
nice |
| 23:16.25 |
brlcad |
have you
played with rtwizard? |
| 23:21.28 |
bpoole |
alloo |
| 23:22.17 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
no |
| 23:22.46 |
Z80-Boy |
Also this
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/railing_0.png |
| 23:23.16 |
Z80-Boy |
and this
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/plazmatron_0.png |
| 23:23.35 |
brlcad |
alloo
bpoole |
| 23:24.13 |
Z80-Boy |
and this
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new_0.png |
| 23:24.42 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
main reason it's drawing the edges that it's drawing is because the
normal vector for the neighbors is drasticly different |
| 23:25.13 |
brlcad |
the ones it's
not drawing have the same orientation |
| 23:25.36 |
Z80-Boy |
Here you can
see where the edge is left out on the cylinders between brown and
grey http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_0.png |
| 23:26.27 |
brlcad |
hep, the
curvature matchs |
| 23:26.31 |
Z80-Boy |
On this one
you can see it's making up dots on the rim http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/rear_cap_0.png |
| 23:26.44 |
brlcad |
the more you
go up that curve, the more they diverge |
| 23:27.32 |
Z80-Boy |
on this one
you can see some kind of double-dotted line it made up in a place
where is no edge: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/mast_0.png |
| 23:27.52 |
bpoole |
brlcad: so,
thanksgiving I think I'm going to re-read my code and try to maybe
start working on beset again, for real this time :) |
| 23:27.55 |
Z80-Boy |
If it
considers a transition from straight plane into a curved one an
edge then it should print a solid edge and not double dotted
one |
| 23:28.36 |
Z80-Boy |
The pattern
is actually .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . or something like that
interesting |
| 23:28.53 |
brlcad |
it's because
of the change in the normal |
| 23:29.01 |
Z80-Boy |
And also made
up couple of randomly placed dots around the object |
| 23:29.03 |
brlcad |
floating
point fuzz -- it's right on the edge |
| 23:29.25 |
brlcad |
tweaking the
curvature angle would make that line solid or disappear |
| 23:29.36 |
brlcad |
(not in the
model, in rtedge) |
| 23:29.45 |
Z80-Boy |
there is no
angle the rounded surface is tangential to the straight
one |
| 23:30.05 |
brlcad |
there is a
normal angle |
| 23:30.14 |
brlcad |
for every
pixel that hits something |
| 23:30.20 |
Z80-Boy |
and what are
the two black dots just above the top edge on the white U
channel? |
| 23:30.23 |
brlcad |
it uses that
angle to determine hit |
| 23:30.35 |
Z80-Boy |
There is
nothing at that place that could be misinterpreted it's just a
solid rpp |
| 23:32.21 |
brlcad |
not obvious
for the points on the top, not clear, could be the edge of some
negative primitive that is getting sorted in front |
| 23:32.34 |
brlcad |
causing a
perturbed normal for just those few pixels |
| 23:32.57 |
brlcad |
related to
the issue yukonbob was seeing in his render |
| 23:33.29 |
brlcad |
the other
"spots" though are on a a curvature end/start point where there is
a change |
| 23:33.41 |
Z80-Boy |
But there is
no doubt that if you have a straight surface where there are no
edges or seams between primitives that there is no
edge! |
| 23:34.30 |
brlcad |
i'm not
disagreeing with you on the top ones |
| 23:34.45 |
brlcad |
the ones,
however, where curvature starts, however, is quite
debateable |
| 23:34.51 |
Z80-Boy |
And the
little yellow edge right of the blue pipe is partly missing,
although the shading on both sides is visibly different |
| 23:34.59 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it because
normals are too similar? |
| 23:35.00 |
brlcad |
most cad
systems *will* show you bot the beginning and end of that inside
blend |
| 23:35.30 |
Z80-Boy |
Well they
should either show nothing or a solid edge and not a broken
one |
| 23:35.44 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 23:35.49 |
Z80-Boy |
cause the
whole interface is translation symmetric so the output should be
also translation symmetric |
| 23:35.58 |
brlcad |
it's just
numerically working out that way due to floating point
fuzz |
| 23:36.25 |
brlcad |
there's very
little you can do about it when you're on the boundary of the
curvature value, other than change the value |
| 23:36.37 |
Z80-Boy |
I thought all
those minimum-angle minimum-distance constatnts are there to
suppress the floating point fuzz |
| 23:36.46 |
Z80-Boy |
BTW floating
point behaves in an astonishing way. |
| 23:37.04 |
brlcad |
it's not
there to suppress floating point, it's there to detect the
edge |
| 23:37.17 |
Z80-Boy |
For example
float a; <something> printf("%G\n",a); printf("%G\n",a); once
gave me two different results which differed in the last
digit |
| 23:37.20 |
brlcad |
we're dealing
with implicit prims, so there is no actual edge other than the one
sampled |
| 23:37.40 |
brlcad |
that's not
astonishing, it's the way it is |
| 23:37.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Yes, the
value of the floating point variable can change without any write
into the variable! |
| 23:38.20 |
brlcad |
you would
also then be astonished how much code is actually dedicated to
trying to manage floating point fuzz in all the
computations... |
| 23:38.40 |
Z80-Boy |
I am not
surprised I once tried to write a doom-like game engine
;-) |
| 23:38.49 |
Z80-Boy |
That's where
I stroke that illogical behaviour |
| 23:38.59 |
brlcad |
yes, it can,
particularly if it's not a representable value and might depend
upon which registers it's loaded into or how the floating point
unit operates |
| 23:39.50 |
Z80-Boy |
it was a
normal number |
| 23:39.53 |
Z80-Boy |
say like 1.38
or so |
| 23:40.05 |
brlcad |
that doesn't
mean it's representable |
| 23:41.21 |
brlcad |
1000.2 is not
a representable number, for example, for a float |
| 23:41.30 |
brlcad |
yet it's
perfectly "normal" |
| 23:42.29 |
Z80-Boy |
If it were
calculated in fixed point then at least a==a would be
valid |
| 23:42.41 |
Z80-Boy |
and not that
it would print two different numbers without a write into the
variable. |
| 23:43.07 |
Z80-Boy |
Floating
point behaves a bit like analogue compuiter |
| 23:43.57 |
brlcad |
even .1 isn't
representable |
| 23:45.33 |
Z80-Boy |
.1 .2 .3 .4
.6 .7 .8 .9 |
| 23:46.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Real numbers
are just a school illusion |
| 23:47.01 |
Z80-Boy |
As well as
integers. |
| 23:48.06 |
Z80-Boy |
Kids are
taught to think about the world in terms of something that cannot
exist by principle |
| 23:49.10 |
brlcad |
it exists
within a tolerance ;) |
| 23:51.23 |
Z80-Boy |
Here the
results are not very good either http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/hardware_1.png |
| 00:00.00 |
brlcad |
wow, that
sure is ugly :) |
| 00:04.42 |
``Erik |
nifty |
| 00:36.31 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r317 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCUserManager.h: eof
newline |
| 00:46.33 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) |
| 00:47.05 |
yukonbob |
hello,
cadders. |
| 00:48.14 |
``Erik |
yargh, matey,
shiver me timbers |
| 00:48.41 |
``Erik |
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/2135204
|
| 00:48.41 |
``Erik |
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/1611208
|
| 00:48.55 |
``Erik |
(for those
that don't imbibe regularly) |
| 00:53.49 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r319
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: no longer log
when we get a part message. |
| 00:56.32 |
``Erik |
hrm |
| 00:56.46 |
``Erik |
egEnable(EG_GRIPE_MODE); |
| 00:57.09 |
``Erik |
are you not
in #libirc? must those who don't give a flying fuck about libirc
see the cia msg's? :D |
| 00:57.14 |
``Erik |
egDisable(EG_GRIPE_MODE); |
| 00:59.38 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r320
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: check the
params and settings before we try to parse private messages to make
sure they are valid |
| 01:00.22 |
bpoole |
brings a new
meaning to commit early, commit often. like every 10 minutes
:) |
| 01:00.43 |
``Erik |
<-- just
being a dick, it don't really bother me... :) |
| 01:01.26 |
``Erik |
I've seen
more irc libs than I care to look at, and know too much of rfc1459
to be considered 'healthy' or 'sane' |
| 01:01.54 |
``Erik |
so these
msgs' are just 'one thing to burn cycles for an "ignore" in the
cognative filter' |
| 01:10.03 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r322
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: don't do a
message on kick, it's stupid and chashes when it's YOU that gets
kicked |
| 01:15.53 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r323 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
test |
| 01:16.29 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 01:17.32 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
howdy! |
| 01:17.36 |
brlcad |
goodbad news
:) |
| 01:18.01 |
brlcad |
I know what
causes those specs now |
| 01:18.58 |
brlcad |
it's related
to floating point tolerance on the negative arb being used to get
the inside of that torus (which is pretty damn creative if I do say
so myself) |
| 01:19.54 |
brlcad |
related to
how segments are weaved and how it ends up with an infinitely thin
"cut" segment along the inside of that cylinder that tweaks the
normal ever so slightly |
| 01:20.24 |
brlcad |
talking with
another one of the devs sometime soon to see if/what we can do
about it .. very core/hard problem that goes back to a really old
issue |
| 01:21.55 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r324 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: test |
| 01:43.06 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r326 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/sample.cfg:
test |
| 01:45.36 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 01:46.15 |
``Erik |
huh |
| 01:46.59 |
``Erik |
I hopped on
#awos cuz it looked kinda interesting... lotta folk there also on
#bzflag, #bzpod, #bzw, #bzfx, #bzflag, ... |
| 01:50.39 |
*** join/#brlcad rdv
(n=rdv@ool-44c79849.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:52.35 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r328 10/trunk/libirc/src/ircBasicCommands.cpp: oops,
didn't intend to commmit the commented-out processing of
privmsg |
| 01:53.10 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: hey
:) |
| 01:54.19 |
brlcad |
awilcox is a
bzflagger |
| 01:54.58 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
floating point -- !!!That was my guess... |
| 01:55.53 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's in
a bizzare backwards way |
| 01:57.02 |
brlcad |
it doesn't
matter that the cut/intersect object is in negative space .. it
doesn't know the boolean until it's time to weave
segments |
| 01:58.39 |
yukonbob |
reminds _me_
of dealing with financial numbers, where nothing of significance is
done w/ floating point, but instead use decimal floats instead of
binary -- does any of that sound interesting for this
case? |
| 01:59.29 |
brlcad |
it's
interesting, just not highly practical :) |
| 01:59.59 |
brlcad |
doing fixed
point math of any sort kills performance, as that is at the core of
the ray-intersection engine |
| 02:00.21 |
yukonbob |
ya -- unless
there's a specific version for the IBM z80 :P |
| 02:00.29 |
brlcad |
heh,
true |
| 02:00.54 |
yukonbob |
well, it is a
goodnews/badnews situation isn't it :) |
| 02:07.36 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:13.56 |
``Erik |
'winny',
too |
| 02:15.07 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 02:15.16 |
brlcad |
he's a punk
kid ;) |
| 02:15.32 |
brlcad |
good
intentions but a lot to learn still |
| 02:21.01 |
``Erik |
which? winny?
or wilcox? |
| 02:21.01 |
``Erik |
both kinda
seem like punk kids to me :D |
| 02:25.50 |
``Erik |
that
commercial claimed it was a flatbread, but it sure didn't look like
a flat bread... (quiznos "sammies") |
| 02:27.12 |
rdv |
does anyone
know if brlcad has been used for image-based modeling (2D to
3D)? |
| 02:31.03 |
brlcad |
rdv: not
directly that I'm aware of |
| 02:31.21 |
brlcad |
a great
research area, one we've often talked about getting
into |
| 02:31.37 |
``Erik |
heh, didn't
you submit a dri on that? |
| 02:31.42 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 02:33.00 |
``Erik |
I think the
implications of how that could be applied would push me away form
that... |
| 02:33.01 |
brlcad |
I'm pretty
sure I could have made it work too |
| 02:33.16 |
brlcad |
at least to a
proof of concept level |
| 02:33.39 |
brlcad |
yeah, kinda
freaky uses if the system was solid |
| 02:33.47 |
``Erik |
making better
armor is all grand, but making better bullets... |
| 02:34.07 |
brlcad |
especially as
it became reasonably near real-time |
| 02:35.19 |
brlcad |
it'll all
converge one day anyways |
| 02:35.48 |
brlcad |
maybe I'll do
my thesis on it or something instead |
| 02:35.51 |
rdv |
well
ImageModeler and PhotoModeler exist already for those who have
freaky uses in mind :) |
| 02:36.02 |
rdv |
not sure how
powerful they are though |
| 02:36.12 |
brlcad |
rdv: he's
talking about a research direction we almost took down that
path |
| 02:36.28 |
brlcad |
pretty
automatic 3D acquisition from video |
| 02:36.58 |
rdv |
is this a
university or an independent lab? |
| 02:37.03 |
brlcad |
i've used
image modeler, it's pretty nifty albeit exceptionally manual and
time-intensive |
| 02:37.14 |
brlcad |
indep.
lab |
| 02:37.21 |
``Erik |
gov't
lab |
| 02:37.55 |
iday |
brlcad:
thesis? |
| 02:38.43 |
brlcad |
yeah.. a
little ways off still, but on my mind |
| 02:38.50 |
``Erik |
iday ==
jay-lo? |
| 02:39.16 |
iday |
yup |
| 02:39.30 |
``Erik |
singer with
the 'badonkadonk'? O.o heh :D |
| 02:39.37 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 02:39.41 |
``Erik |
gaffagan or
something |
| 02:39.46 |
iday |
um...
no |
| 02:39.50 |
iday |
thats
missy |
| 02:39.51 |
``Erik |
gaffigan |
| 02:39.58 |
``Erik |
hooooooot
pockets |
| 02:40.11 |
``Erik |
so, uh, dude,
a mini for your icon? DORK! |
| 02:40.16 |
brlcad |
erm, my
comment is because I'm munching on some hot pockets atm
:) |
| 02:40.21 |
iday |
? oh...
aim |
| 02:40.46 |
iday |
and, what, an
m3 is cool? so 90s |
| 02:40.50 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:40.56 |
``Erik |
I drive it, I
don't make it my icon |
| 02:41.13 |
iday |
it was in a
pinch.. better than a leaf |
| 02:41.39 |
``Erik |
hum, I think
I'm using a southpark icon |
| 02:41.46 |
``Erik |
other places,
I use a hal9000 icon :) |
| 02:41.48 |
brlcad |
mm, i'd go
for a mini icon :P |
| 02:41.50 |
iday |
mr. brlcad
didn't answer my question... |
| 02:42.00 |
``Erik |
yeah, he's an
elusive little bitch |
| 02:42.02 |
iday |
i've seen
that one... nice |
| 02:42.14 |
brlcad |
maaa'aan..
take a look at that mini .. that suckers HUGE! |
| 02:42.27 |
iday |
uh
huuuh... |
| 02:42.54 |
iday |
although i do
like brlcad's "Combat" tank |
| 02:42.57 |
``Erik |
when I worked
at fedex, I was using freebsd on my desktop, used um,sawfish and
bits of gnome, turned the gnome panel black and put it on the
right, make the background black and had a hal eye in the middle of
my screen :) |
| 02:43.02 |
brlcad |
uhh thaank ya
.. thank yaa very much |
| 02:43.07 |
iday |
hehe |
| 02:43.10 |
``Erik |
I don't think
I have brlcad on aim or yahoo |
| 02:43.32 |
brlcad |
they're the
devil |
| 02:43.37 |
iday |
hah |
| 02:43.52 |
iday |
use jabber
then |
| 02:43.58 |
``Erik |
jay-lo, um,
"linked in"? |
| 02:44.10 |
iday |
huh? |
| 02:44.14 |
brlcad |
the
site? |
| 02:44.33 |
``Erik |
latest
'social network' |
| 02:44.42 |
``Erik |
more geared
for... y'know, grownups... i think :D |
| 02:44.45 |
iday |
no - i don't
really do any of those... |
| 02:45.06 |
iday |
anything is
for grownup compared to the likes of myshiite.. |
| 02:45.08 |
``Erik |
I got an
invite from old cow orkers, so I succumbed |
| 02:45.08 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's a
prof. connections site .. kinda pointless unless you're job hunting
maybe |
| 02:45.18 |
brlcad |
been up for a
few years |
| 02:45.25 |
``Erik |
heh,
um |
| 02:45.32 |
``Erik |
diesel
sweeties mocked all that just recently |
| 02:45.35 |
brlcad |
not nearly as
fun as ohloh or amihotornot |
| 02:45.49 |
``Erik |
http://www.dieselsweeties.com/ |
| 02:45.58 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:46.30 |
``Erik |
I remember in
the very early days of 'ratemyrack' (thinkin' hotornot)... someone
got a high score with a pick of a 19" rack loaded with
gear... |
| 02:47.02 |
iday |
you and your
funky sites... like the kitties... jeez... the kitties,
man! |
| 02:47.16 |
``Erik |
hahahaha |
| 02:47.26 |
``Erik |
icanhascheezburger.com !!! |
| 02:47.29 |
``Erik |
how can you
not love it??? |
| 02:47.32 |
iday |
ha! |
| 02:47.39 |
brlcad |
clay kitten
shooting? |
| 02:47.50 |
``Erik |
I
mean |
| 02:47.50 |
iday |
trying to get
my damn neural network to learn XOR... not converging for some
reason... |
| 02:48.05 |
``Erik |
"cute" pics,
lamer geek humor... ... :D |
| 02:48.10 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 02:48.14 |
``Erik |
that's
funny |
| 02:48.28 |
``Erik |
I drug up my
"box o' goodies" like half an hour ago |
| 02:48.28 |
iday |
did you see
the xkcd? |
| 02:48.34 |
``Erik |
xkcd is on my
daily list |
| 02:48.39 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php |
| 02:49.03 |
``Erik |
<-- tryin
gto decide what ic's to put on his breadboard... the 16f88, or a
few 74 series ttl's |
| 02:49.03 |
iday |
mrs
roberts? |
| 02:49.11 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
Where would you want to do your phd at? |
| 02:49.25 |
iday |
brlcad:
phd? |
| 02:49.37 |
iday |
brlcad:
ANSWER ME :-) |
| 02:50.02 |
iday |
``Erik: must
punch brlcad the next time you see him |
| 02:50.07 |
``Erik |
um |
| 02:50.13 |
``Erik |
he might
punch back |
| 02:50.17 |
starseeker |
lol |
| 02:50.18 |
iday |
so? |
| 02:50.22 |
``Erik |
and if ya
hain't noticed, there may be a slight muscle mass
difference |
| 02:50.35 |
iday |
come on -
just drink some beer beforehand... |
| 02:50.59 |
brlcad |
iday: I did
answer! |
| 02:51.07 |
``Erik |
I don't get
THAT stupid after imbibing, dude |
| 02:51.14 |
brlcad |
"yeah.. a
little ways off still, but on my mind" |
| 02:51.34 |
starseeker |
Is John
Hopkins a candidate for that sort of work? |
| 02:51.53 |
iday |
doh... musta
missed it :( |
| 02:52.04 |
iday |
which
is? |
| 02:52.07 |
brlcad |
i was looking
at schools all weekend |
| 02:52.31 |
brlcad |
all spawned
by an ad I ran across for a uni that specializes in
alife |
| 02:52.41 |
``Erik |
I don't want
to nickle and dime my way to a masters, I'd want to go on hiatus
and commit myself, at some place like cmu or stanford |
| 02:52.57 |
iday |
ahh |
| 02:53.00 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
not the classes I'd take, it's not fun if it's something I already
know |
| 02:53.06 |
iday |
yeah... a bit
hard to do that anywhere... |
| 02:53.08 |
``Erik |
starseeker: I
think brlcad is good enough to understand how to learn |
| 02:53.47 |
``Erik |
when I was
doing my undergrad work, I figured out what profs knewwhat and
bugged them after hours for the extra yard |
| 02:53.48 |
brlcad |
i lern
good |
| 02:53.52 |
``Erik |
"gud" |
| 02:54.07 |
``Erik |
lurn how tew
spll |
| 02:54.11 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:54.15 |
iday |
coledge
stoodint |
| 02:54.16 |
brlcad |
guuda
chese |
| 02:54.32 |
starseeker |
brlcad: Heh.
You might get drafted - being a grad student kinda sucks in the
"free will" department... |
| 02:54.33 |
``Erik |
there was
jabber about how spelling is being taught at lunch
yesterday... |
| 02:54.52 |
``Erik |
unfortunately, there's no good way to
vocalize something like "hukt on fonix wurkd for me" |
| 02:55.13 |
``Erik |
mmmm
gouda |
| 02:56.01 |
iday |
``Erik:
probably headed to CMU myself |
| 02:56.03 |
``Erik |
I REALLY need
to stop reading sites like folklore.org and paul grahams
site |
| 02:56.20 |
``Erik |
um, hoolio is
doing his bs there I think |
| 02:56.29 |
iday |
considering a
leave of absence too |
| 02:56.37 |
iday |
hoolio? |
| 02:56.44 |
``Erik |
last time I
did my research, if languages and operating systems are your thing,
it's really hard to beat cmu |
| 02:56.53 |
iday |
or
robotics/ai! |
| 02:56.57 |
``Erik |
yeah,
bpoole |
| 02:57.08 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Wouldn't it have to pertain to CAD in some shape or form, for you
to get the OK to do it? |
| 02:57.28 |
``Erik |
robotics are
fun, ai is neat, but I tend to work more towards fundamental theory
of computation myself :/ |
| 02:57.35 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 02:57.37 |
iday |
:-) |
| 02:58.10 |
iday |
yeah - then
you can write the 2-3 turing machine and prove it :-) |
| 02:58.10 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
not really |
| 02:58.26 |
``Erik |
heh, wanna
copy of my 'brainfuck' suite? compilers, intepreter, and the
beginnings of optimization stuff... |
| 02:58.43 |
starseeker |
brlcad: cool
:-) |
| 02:58.48 |
iday |
urgh --
actually i was looking at llvm the other night |
| 02:59.25 |
iday |
maybe do some
language experimentation once i get finished with the
classes |
| 02:59.33 |
``Erik |
my thinking
is that any 'solid' optimization on brainfuck could provide a solid
theory/lemme grade optimization for any language |
| 03:00.05 |
iday |
perhaps - but
the primitives are so limited... no real high-level concepts
there |
| 03:00.22 |
``Erik |
'partial
evaluation', a pretty complex notion, is represented pretty easily
in bf |
| 03:00.39 |
starseeker |
cmu is really
good - their CMUCL lisp implementation and derivatives thereof are
the best free lisps available for a lot of things |
| 03:00.52 |
``Erik |
but it's not
a PROVEN notion, and it's approached very ad hoc in practical
optimization passes |
| 03:01.13 |
iday |
prove it and
get a dissertation... done. |
| 03:01.17 |
iday |
like
nash |
| 03:01.20 |
``Erik |
if it were
formalized at the low turing level, mebbe it'd find a much more
mature invocation in 'pragmatic' languages |
| 03:01.34 |
``Erik |
cmucl seems
ok, I've been looking more at sbcl myself... |
| 03:01.47 |
starseeker |
sbcl is a
derivative of cmucl |
| 03:02.29 |
``Erik |
I'm learning
emacs and slime against sbcl |
| 03:02.41 |
starseeker |
That's the
right way to do it :-) |
| 03:02.45 |
iday |
oh
my |
| 03:02.45 |
``Erik |
<-- is a
schemer, so is having some trouble adapting to the language, PLUS a
new editor (being a vimmer) |
| 03:02.57 |
iday |
did Erik say
he's touching emacs??? |
| 03:03.05 |
``Erik |
yes, yes I
did |
| 03:03.08 |
``Erik |
emacs 22 and
slime |
| 03:03.18 |
iday |
again, i say
"oh, my" |
| 03:03.20 |
``Erik |
and I've
griped to brlcad about the suckiness of it |
| 03:03.24 |
iday |
hah |
| 03:03.29 |
``Erik |
but I'm
sticking with it |
| 03:03.31 |
iday |
i'm sure he's
appreciated your rants |
| 03:04.07 |
``Erik |
even though
watching brlcad use emacs to edit a shell script on a projector
made me definitely think that either emacs sucks ass or he sucks at
using it... *cough* O:-) |
| 03:04.08 |
brlcad |
iday: have
you seen the new aquaemacs? |
| 03:04.19 |
brlcad |
i just saw it
today, installed it for bob... |
| 03:04.31 |
brlcad |
damn if it
didn't finally seem usable and fully properly
integrated |
| 03:04.56 |
iday |
i've been
using it for several years - and yes I have the new one (unless
there's a new one in the last month) |
| 03:05.15 |
brlcad |
i don't mean
the original aqua emacs that was on sf.net and
elsewhere |
| 03:05.19 |
iday |
except they
screwed up the configuration again |
| 03:05.25 |
iday |
i
know |
| 03:05.35 |
brlcad |
http://aquamacs.org |
| 03:05.39 |
iday |
you mean
aquamacs |
| 03:05.41 |
iday |
yes |
| 03:05.42 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 03:05.50 |
brlcad |
slick |
| 03:05.59 |
starseeker |
``Erik: I
have my beefs with Emacs, but the sense I get is that for many
purposes it's so much better than anything else that people use it
rather than do what it would take to make a better
one... |
| 03:06.04 |
brlcad |
f'ing stupid
icon, butgood port |
| 03:06.11 |
iday |
yeah - the
only thing i use for non-java coding |
| 03:06.21 |
brlcad |
stupid
cowhorse with poney tails |
| 03:06.22 |
iday |
no
kidding |
| 03:06.35 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:06.36 |
iday |
ha |
| 03:06.42 |
``Erik |
um |
| 03:06.54 |
``Erik |
yes, it has
its purpose... lemme find a url for ya... |
| 03:07.21 |
brlcad |
i might
actually want to stop using console emacs sometime |
| 03:07.24 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
What's driving you to learn lisp? |
| 03:07.55 |
brlcad |
he's a scheme
nut, using lisp makes him seem slightly less insane |
| 03:08.13 |
``Erik |
um, long term
scheme appreciation, and things like "mod-lisp" |
| 03:08.20 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r329 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h
src/IRCClient.cpp src/irClientEvents.cpp): |
| 03:08.22 |
CIA-27 |
libirc: send
the connection event when we first get some data, not when the MOTD
is done. |
| 03:08.24 |
CIA-27 |
libirc: This
gives us the best possible state as early as possible. |
| 03:08.28 |
``Erik |
I want to use
some kinda lithp backed system to figure out ajax |
| 03:08.39 |
``Erik |
and I want
persistant globals across the threads |
| 03:08.51 |
starseeker |
Ah
:-) |
| 03:10.09 |
iday |
someone was
already working on a lisp-based web framework using ajax... darned
if i remember where i saw though - maybe off lemonodor? |
| 03:11.28 |
starseeker |
Is this the
one? http://www.holygoat.co.uk/applications/cl-ajax/cl-ajax |
| 03:12.22 |
starseeker |
Or if you're
a hunchentoot fan: http://85.65.214.241/misc/ht-ajax.html |
| 03:12.57 |
iday |
not the same
one i saw... it had a working demo... maybe defmacro - yeah looks
like defmacro: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-weblocks/ |
| 03:13.58 |
starseeker |
iday:
Nice |
| 03:17.10 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 03:17.14 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: bob
fixed a bug exposed with the opendb command where it would crash if
you said |
| 03:17.16 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: no
to create a new file. it was a windows-specific bug related to
trying to |
| 03:17.18 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
close fd 0 (which happened to be the default descriptor value). now
set to -1 |
| 03:17.20 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD: and
is checked. |
| 03:17.34 |
``Erik |
cl-ajax is
the one I've been looking at, yes |
| 03:17.49 |
``Erik |
"nowadays"?
dude, it's always been done |
| 03:18.25 |
``Erik |
um |
| 03:18.32 |
``Erik |
take viaweb
for example |
| 03:18.35 |
``Erik |
aka yahoo
stores |
| 03:18.47 |
starseeker |
Oh, the
famous example of making money with lisp :-) |
| 03:18.51 |
``Erik |
paul graham
and robert morris |
| 03:18.52 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 03:18.54 |
``Erik |
well |
| 03:19.00 |
``Erik |
ratchet and
clank might be more famous |
| 03:19.06 |
``Erik |
or
autocad |
| 03:20.06 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:20.14 |
``Erik |
someone said
something along the lines of, um |
| 03:20.25 |
``Erik |
"java drug
the developers halfway to lisp" |
| 03:20.32 |
starseeker |
Yes, Guy
Steele |
| 03:20.34 |
iday |
http://www.lambdassociates.org/lC21.htm |
| 03:20.42 |
iday |
hehe |
| 03:20.53 |
starseeker |
iday: Oh,
you know about Qi? :-) |
| 03:20.55 |
``Erik |
oh, guy
steele, yes |
| 03:20.58 |
``Erik |
the scheme
guy! |
| 03:20.59 |
``Erik |
hah |
| 03:21.06 |
iday |
haven't
played with it... but yeah |
| 03:21.07 |
starseeker |
iday: I'm
actually very interested in Qi |
| 03:21.08 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.08 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.08 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.08 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 03:22.00 |
iday |
starseeker:
i'm interesting in seeing phase 3 |
| 03:22.04 |
iday |
interested |
| 03:22.25 |
iday |
although
I |
| 03:22.39 |
iday |
i'm
unimpressed with Tk choice |
| 03:22.46 |
iday |
that' |
| 03:22.46 |
starseeker |
iday: Any
strong mathematics system like Axiom needs a strongly typed
language, and SPAD (Axiom's current language) isn't even well
defined |
| 03:22.52 |
iday |
kinda turned
me off |
| 03:23.02 |
starseeker |
yeah, I don't
care about the tk part (sorry tk fans) |
| 03:23.07 |
iday |
strongly
typed you say... |
| 03:23.08 |
``Erik |
tcl has never
thrilled me |
| 03:23.27 |
``Erik |
I dorked with
it a little, thought it was lame, then got into thcheme, and viewed
tcl has a halfassed wannabe :/ |
| 03:23.28 |
iday |
yeah - i need
to play with qi - just to see |
| 03:23.44 |
starseeker |
iday: Aldor
(www.aldor.org) was the replacement language for SPAD, and some
would probably consider it the best mathematical programming
language for a CAS available today, but they gummed up the
license |
| 03:24.11 |
starseeker |
So we can
learn from Aldor, but can't use it :-( |
| 03:24.59 |
``Erik |
the last
couple days, I've been looking more at asm and javame :( I'm
turning lame *cry* |
| 03:25.02 |
starseeker |
Qi seems to
have done many things the "right way" - implemented the new
language inside lisp rather than having an external compiler, is
willing to listen to and talk intelligently with
critics |
| 03:25.04 |
brlcad |
iday: I think
my arms are back to what they were, or really close |
| 03:25.05 |
iday |
interesting... haven't played with too
many algebra systems myself. |
| 03:25.24 |
starseeker |
iday: It's
my hobby obsession :-) |
| 03:25.25 |
iday |
brlcad:
bastard. well - come over and play with your godson
then |
| 03:25.32 |
brlcad |
(at least in
size, not strength quite yet) |
| 03:25.40 |
iday |
brlcad: you
can lift him up and down :-) |
| 03:25.48 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:25.51 |
brlcad |
but I am le
sore |
| 03:25.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 03:26.12 |
iday |
and I am le
tired |
| 03:26.17 |
starseeker |
iday:
Started with Maxima, but once I learned enough to appreciate how
really messed up (and theoretically weak) it was/is, Axiom seemed
like the obvious choice |
| 03:26.44 |
starseeker |
iday: Not
that Axiom isn't messed up too, but at least it's theoretically
closer to what a "proper" CAS should be... |
| 03:26.46 |
iday |
starseeker:
have played with maxima... but the interface was too clunky for me
to get too into it |
| 03:26.46 |
``Erik |
'maxim'? the
magazine? O.o |
| 03:26.48 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 03:26.55 |
``Erik |
oi,
twiggly |
| 03:26.58 |
Twingy |
I haven't had
hot pockets in ages |
| 03:27.21 |
Twingy |
when you said
maxim I was reminded of the maxim231 rs232 ttl cmos
converter |
| 03:27.22 |
``Erik |
*smirk* and
the fire alarm hasn't gone off in ages, go figure :D |
| 03:27.26 |
starseeker |
iday: Yeah,
that's a general problem with open source CAS |
| 03:27.33 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:27.37 |
starseeker |
iday: Did
you try the TeXmacs interface? |
| 03:28.00 |
starseeker |
or wxmaxima?
Those are probably the closest to tolerable |
| 03:28.07 |
Twingy |
cept I'm
using TI7404's now because I can get away with 5V instead of
7 |
| 03:28.27 |
iday |
starseeker:
no - i saw something like that was available... but at the time i
was trying to use it for a class, and no time to futz with
it |
| 03:28.33 |
starseeker |
Ah. |
| 03:28.45 |
iday |
starseeker: i
tried wxmaxima the other day - argh |
| 03:28.54 |
starseeker |
Not what you
need eh? |
| 03:29.10 |
Twingy |
btw Erik I
finally got my DB-III |
| 03:29.18 |
iday |
starseeker:
i |
| 03:29.32 |
starseeker |
iday: Doing
something like Mathematica's interactive 2D input typesetting
interface is probably the way to go in the long term, but it's a
very difficult problem. |
| 03:29.38 |
iday |
starseeker:
am just picky about interfaces (and I keep tapping the frikkin
return key) |
| 03:29.45 |
iday |
yes |
| 03:29.59 |
starseeker |
iday: That's
why I am interested in McCLIM and the Stix fonts, for
example |
| 03:30.03 |
starseeker |
they are
critical pieces |
| 03:30.04 |
iday |
however - lyx
doesn't do too bad |
| 03:30.12 |
starseeker |
for one
liners it's ok |
| 03:30.25 |
``Erik |
w00t, how's
gaytech going? |
| 03:30.31 |
iday |
haha |
| 03:30.48 |
iday |
twingy looked
a bit stressed today... maybe that was the soot |
| 03:31.10 |
Twingy |
``Erik, very
difficult |
| 03:31.14 |
``Erik |
one of the
things that really endeared latex to me was that the layout was
very divorced from the creative cycle |
| 03:31.19 |
starseeker |
There's an
McCLIM app called GSharp that has done amazing work with
interactive music typesetting using McCLIM, and I think many of
those pieces will be helpful someday in a proper math GUI. But
there are so many things to fix before the GUI... :-( |
| 03:31.30 |
iday |
``Erik: of
course |
| 03:31.32 |
``Erik |
not even
worth worrying about layout, just do the fucking
content... |
| 03:31.54 |
iday |
only until
you need to embed a graphic. and then things get a bit
painful |
| 03:31.57 |
starseeker |
iday:
Actually, if you don't need interactive typesetting I recommend
Emaxima |
| 03:31.58 |
``Erik |
opposed to
'word', where it's easy to distract yourself be tweaking visual
elements instead of being productive... |
| 03:32.02 |
``Erik |
eps
ftw |
| 03:32.12 |
iday |
starseeker:
have to take a look at it |
| 03:32.26 |
``Erik |
encapsulated
postscript |
| 03:32.37 |
iday |
or pgf -
program your figures |
| 03:32.50 |
starseeker |
Brain child
of Jay Belanger |
| 03:32.51 |
``Erik |
imagemagick's
"convert" can make 'em, and they just 'work' if you output to ps
(then use ps2pdf or something) |
| 03:32.57 |
iday |
pdflatex uses
pdf figures as well |
| 03:33.08 |
starseeker |
Emaxima rocks
- I helped with some of the early debugging on it |
| 03:33.44 |
``Erik |
aaaanyways,
it seems to me that toys like LyX kinda defeat one of the biggest
advantages :D |
| 03:33.55 |
``Erik |
that was the
reason for my tangent |
| 03:34.10 |
iday |
you don't
have to do any "layout" in lyx... |
| 03:34.16 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Lyx
is actually an interesting compromise between hiding syntax details
of markup and lack of interactive WYSIWYG behavor |
| 03:34.34 |
starseeker |
most of the
problem with users of Lyx is they expect WYSIWYG |
| 03:34.42 |
iday |
saves some
\begin{} and \end{} typing (but not all of it) |
| 03:34.56 |
iday |
WYSIWYM! |
| 03:35.07 |
``Erik |
erm, you
don't have vim macros for automatic teTeX output? |
| 03:35.14 |
``Erik |
or, uh, emacs
macros? |
| 03:35.37 |
iday |
i like the
pretty equation visualization ;-) |
| 03:35.57 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Well, we have AucTeX but for a lot of students who don't go that
deep into the typesetting side of things Lyx is a good
compromise |
| 03:36.10 |
``Erik |
I'm often
tempted to write a scheme<->tex(math mode)
translator |
| 03:36.15 |
``Erik |
I mean,
they're almsot identical |
| 03:36.25 |
iday |
``Erik:
you |
| 03:36.31 |
iday |
're hilarious
sometimes, |
| 03:36.34 |
starseeker |
Lyx and
TeXmacs have the best equation input setups I've ever used - Lyx
has the best dialog I've ever used, and TeXmacs keybindings are
extremely smooth once you know them |
| 03:36.35 |
``Erik |
:d |
| 03:36.36 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 03:36.49 |
``Erik |
I also want
to write a sexp<->xml translator |
| 03:36.59 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
cl-typesetting would like you :-) |
| 03:37.15 |
Twingy |
``Erik, did
you see crayon physics? |
| 03:37.26 |
``Erik |
xml is just
an obscenely ugly and verbose form of a subset of sexp |
| 03:37.32 |
``Erik |
no? crayon
physics? O.o |
| 03:37.43 |
``Erik |
same nature
as, um, britney speares doing semiconductor physics? |
| 03:37.48 |
iday |
Twingy: i
sent it to brlcad earlier |
| 03:37.52 |
iday |
he may not
have shared |
| 03:38.21 |
brlcad |
hm, who
what? |
| 03:38.25 |
starseeker |
iday: Ahem -
anyway, back to cad :-) |
| 03:38.28 |
``Erik |
I think first
I'll build yet another 74 based ripple adder |
| 03:38.29 |
brlcad |
i'm
innocent |
| 03:38.33 |
brlcad |
she said she
was 19 |
| 03:38.35 |
``Erik |
THEN try to
tie the simm to the pic |
| 03:38.43 |
iday |
brlcad:
jeez |
| 03:38.57 |
brlcad |
okay
18 |
| 03:39.00 |
iday |
alright -
since neural nets are off topic here, back to work |
| 03:39.02 |
``Erik |
you're 30
now, quit hitting on the freshmen at the frat parties, step up to
the sophmores |
| 03:39.05 |
``Erik |
*cough*
O:-) |
| 03:39.22 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
There's a topic - can neural nets be applied to CAD?
;-) |
| 03:39.42 |
brlcad |
thought 'bout
it some |
| 03:40.00 |
``Erik |
starseeker:
look at src/gtools/beset... genetic algo's applied to
cad... |
| 03:40.19 |
starseeker |
iday: So,
you're on topic after all ;-) |
| 03:40.33 |
brlcad |
mebbie but
the dimensionality of most of the problems is a bitch for a nn, but
you could use a nn as part of some bigger solution |
| 03:40.48 |
``Erik |
evolving a
good nn via a ga... etc |
| 03:41.01 |
iday |
well, i'll be
using a EA to grow NN for my project this semester |
| 03:41.09 |
iday |
hopefully to
implement target tracking |
| 03:41.25 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r330 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: when we are
quiting, don't complain about not having network command handlers
when the network itself is not valid. |
| 03:41.29 |
brlcad |
bpoole's
beset GA showed quite a bit of feasibility of the approach for some
problems |
| 03:41.32 |
``Erik |
see, more of
that 'better bullet' shit, I can't get behind that :( |
| 03:41.54 |
brlcad |
``Erik: but
you can get in front of them? :) |
| 03:41.55 |
iday |
um - not for
bullets, for information |
| 03:42.02 |
iday |
surveillance |
| 03:42.10 |
iday |
jeez |
| 03:42.32 |
``Erik |
I have no
problem keeping kids from getting dead, but I get squeemish at the
notion of getting kids dead... |
| 03:42.41 |
brlcad |
~bzfrag
``Erik |
| 03:42.42 |
ibot |
ACTION
skewers ``Erik with a super bullet |
| 03:42.44 |
iday |
i really
wouln't work on the better bullet approach either (although, many
good things can be used in nefarious ways) |
| 03:43.16 |
starseeker |
It's all
tools in the end - in a battlefield situation, the idea is to keep
at it until someone can't continue |
| 03:43.23 |
rdv |
brlcad: i'm
interested in what adding IBMR to the software would entail. i
realize it's difficult to estimate off the top of one's
head |
| 03:43.23 |
``Erik |
yeah, my
threshhold for observing nefarious misuse has shifted in the last,
ohhhh, 6, almost 7 years |
| 03:43.45 |
brlcad |
rdv: that's
way too open-ended :) |
| 03:44.36 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
there's this, too - if you don't know what you might find being
shot at someone someday, it's harder to design around
it |
| 03:44.43 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean by it? something with a gui that lets you pick points in
multiple views? something programmatic? automatic/manual
shape/edge/feature detection? console/command driven? |
| 03:45.17 |
rdv |
well for a
first phase, maybe rectangular textures by picking 4 points on each
of 2 pictures |
| 03:45.42 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r331
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: throttle the
inital channel joins, do them one at a time, and only after we have
the MOTD, and a valid nick |
| 03:46.00 |
``Erik |
my
observation is that if you give warmongering imbeciles a technology
to defend against tomorrows bullets, they'll figure out how to
field those imagined bullets. |
| 03:47.25 |
``Erik |
albert
einsteins quote, um, about not knowing what weapons ww3 will be
fought with, but ww4 being fought with sticks and stones... :)
strikes a chord with me |
| 03:48.08 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Given the weapons we already have, it's just a matter of degree at
this point. |
| 03:48.35 |
``Erik |
the weapons
are just a tool, unfortunately... it's the lack of
civilization |
| 03:48.47 |
starseeker |
Correct |
| 03:48.58 |
brlcad |
rdv: if
someone was already familiar with the libs and interfaces and could
dedicate time to it, I could see having something minimal like that
in a few weeks .. that quickly expands to a few months though as
you get to actual general use for making more than boxes and
outlined shapes |
| 03:49.15 |
``Erik |
american
aggresion inthe middle east has scared russia, who's arming up...
so china gets scared and is arming up...it's a vicious feedback
cycle |
| 03:49.43 |
starseeker |
Lack of tools
won't stop anybody - most of history's wars managed to kill lots of
people with what were in essence extreme refinements of the
club... |
| 03:49.59 |
brlcad |
rdv: brl-cad
already has a facilities for
creating/manipulating/storeing/processing geometry, so most of the
work would be focused on the actual gui and IBMR calcs |
| 03:50.11 |
``Erik |
and given the
near obliteration experiences in teh last half century, ... I doubt
modern politicians have the ability to behave in rational ways like
their predecessors |
| 03:50.34 |
starseeker |
Which
underscores the need for everyone to vote in elections |
| 03:50.49 |
``Erik |
then throw in
'hot' areas of extremists getting "wmd's"... israel stealing nuke
base and adopting a policy of "share the pain"... wtf |
| 03:51.15 |
``Erik |
if we don't
become a space faring race awfully soon, we'll probably stop being
a race. |
| 03:51.30 |
``Erik |
also; whiskey
good *grunt* |
| 03:51.41 |
brlcad |
get
'em! |
| 03:51.46 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:52.13 |
``Erik |
yeah, I'm
scared of the world situation. the rapid degredation is horrifying.
:) |
| 03:52.30 |
starseeker |
There are so
many good things that could come of that |
| 03:52.59 |
``Erik |
I think it's
real, but misplaced... I think it smells more like "we're still
badasses, we can beat the damn commies... again" |
| 03:53.06 |
``Erik |
opposed to
real sustained advancement |
| 03:53.10 |
brlcad |
c'est la vie,
have fun and enjoy life while you have it |
| 03:53.30 |
starseeker |
<snort>
If we hadn't had the race for space, we would never have walked on
the moon. |
| 03:53.33 |
``Erik |
china seems
to be avoiding the critical flaw the ussr had |
| 03:53.41 |
brlcad |
just/more
likely to die on your way home (as you so flippingly found out
already) |
| 03:53.49 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 03:53.51 |
``Erik |
well |
| 03:53.55 |
starseeker |
If we have to
make it a race/contest to overcome human nature, oh well - at least
it's better than slugging it out |
| 03:54.08 |
``Erik |
I wasn't
exactly driving home when I rolled the sports car :) |
| 03:54.22 |
brlcad |
doesn't
matter, it's still in the odds |
| 03:54.45 |
starseeker |
arrgh - you
rolled a sports car?? |
| 03:55.02 |
``Erik |
yeah... but,
y'know, if it takes me, it takes me... otherwise, I'll try to
maximize the long term benefit of my activities as much as
possible |
| 03:55.32 |
``Erik |
yeah,
starseeker... bmw m3... hit two trees, flipped, went upside down
across a road, hit a hill and two other trees, ended up on the
side |
| 03:55.46 |
``Erik |
got lucky SO
manytimes on that adventure |
| 03:56.15 |
starseeker |
holy
cow |
| 03:56.16 |
``Erik |
inches from a
frame stop on the first tree which woulda killed me, arm happened
to flop in during the roll so I got to keep it, etc... |
| 03:56.24 |
``Erik |
megajoules. |
| 03:56.29 |
``Erik |
I computed it
before I went to court |
| 03:57.01 |
starseeker |
So you're
taking the bus nowadays? |
| 03:57.08 |
``Erik |
heh,
no |
| 03:57.36 |
``Erik |
insurance
company totally paid everything off, and I was so damn impressed at
how I stepepd out that I went and bought another m3 |
| 03:57.47 |
``Erik |
haven't
rolled this one yet ;) |
| 03:58.14 |
``Erik |
not an issue,
I never drive anywys :D |
| 03:58.19 |
``Erik |
gas is too
damn expensive |
| 03:58.24 |
starseeker |
Heh |
| 03:58.30 |
starseeker |
Yeah, that's
for sure |
| 03:59.12 |
``Erik |
brlcad and
iday can attest... I make sure to keep the rear seats disassembled
and leave my car key in the office when going to lunch
:D |
| 04:00.04 |
``Erik |
I'm tempted
to junk my current truck and buy another and use that as my daily
driver |
| 04:00.10 |
``Erik |
hey, brlcad,
wanna buy a truck? :D |
| 04:00.43 |
brlcad |
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/07/13/the_six_most_feared_but_least_likely_causes_of_death.htm |
| 04:01.19 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 04:01.38 |
``Erik |
<-- has
been rating auto accident and alcohol as his top two
probably |
| 04:02.15 |
brlcad |
eh.. how
about adding physical inactivity too :) |
| 04:02.24 |
brlcad |
you *ever*
hit the apg gym? :) |
| 04:02.30 |
``Erik |
not the apg
one |
| 04:02.38 |
``Erik |
I have one
about 2 minutes walk from my house |
| 04:02.51 |
brlcad |
which you of
course walk to every day :) |
| 04:02.58 |
``Erik |
heh, hell
no |
| 04:03.04 |
brlcad |
after a
couple beers |
| 04:03.23 |
``Erik |
but, uh, once
in a while... and I do distance walks once in a
while... |
| 04:03.37 |
``Erik |
stairs all
the time (there is no bathroom on the 'main' floor of my
house) |
| 04:03.45 |
starseeker |
brlcad: It
sounds like you can use ``Erik to do some real world testing of
vehicle related ballistic modeling ;-) |
| 04:03.48 |
``Erik |
pushups and
sittups once in a while... |
| 04:04.06 |
``Erik |
and my diet
has gotten a lot better the last couple years, I mena, I went from
180 to 150 |
| 04:04.23 |
``Erik |
'nut' was
helpful in that |
| 04:05.13 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 04:05.16 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 04:05.24 |
starseeker |
the truck
would lose |
| 04:05.33 |
brlcad |
banking on
them sorting out those problems in about 30 years |
| 04:06.15 |
``Erik |
my parents
have neither... my dad has high cholesterol, and so do I... but
given the fluctuation on medical opinion of cholesterol... *shrug*
probably aint' an issue |
| 04:06.23 |
starseeker |
``Erik: just
kidding around. That's one heck of a crash to have survived -
you're very lucky |
| 04:06.42 |
``Erik |
shit, when my
dad went on an extreme low cholesterol diet, his readings went
UP |
| 04:07.05 |
``Erik |
starseeker:
my cam was fucked up... but... http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/ |
| 04:07.35 |
``Erik |
my community
gym is 24/7...I have a proxy card :) |
| 04:07.47 |
starseeker |
Wow -
actually in better shape than I would have expected |
| 04:08.18 |
``Erik |
was a damn
good car, and I got damn lucky |
| 04:08.25 |
starseeker |
I see why you
got another one |
| 04:08.53 |
brlcad |
you should
have put a "Designed for Windows XP" sticker on it |
| 04:08.56 |
``Erik |
amusingly
enough |
| 04:09.13 |
``Erik |
after I
killed the blue one, I bought one with "performance
modifications" |
| 04:09.18 |
``Erik |
and my
insurance went down a lot |
| 04:09.36 |
starseeker |
That's some
funky math |
| 04:09.46 |
``Erik |
that was
about when I turned 30 |
| 04:09.48 |
``Erik |
... |
| 04:10.13 |
starseeker |
Oh, OK. Age
does have a lot to do with it |
| 04:11.01 |
``Erik |
was weird, I
paid like $1005 fora 6mo, wrecked... bought a newer fancier
version... got a letter saying my rate had increased mor ethan 15%
and here's my refund |
| 04:11.09 |
``Erik |
and the
nextcycle was like $835 or something |
| 04:13.53 |
``Erik |
<PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.01 |
``Erik |
if you have
the opportunity to toe up against a tree |
| 04:14.07 |
``Erik |
politely pass
on that |
| 04:14.18 |
``Erik |
trees're damn
tough |
| 04:14.27 |
starseeker |
Good
advice |
| 04:24.37 |
``Erik |
indeed |
| 04:24.44 |
``Erik |
unlike some
punkassed bitch contractors |
| 04:24.59 |
``Erik |
I'll get in
trouble if I don't "punch the clock" at the right time |
| 04:26.12 |
brlcad |
there's no
clock to punch if you just don't stop coding |
| 04:28.35 |
``Erik |
IT walks
circuits in the morning and evening. |
| 04:29.05 |
``Erik |
if I cooked
an overnight crunch, Iwouldn't be credited the overnight hours, as
I hadn't filled out the proper paperwork |
| 04:30.50 |
brlcad |
could go for
a brisk midnight walk :) |
| 04:31.29 |
``Erik |
the
'greenway' here is closed after dark,a nd old fuckers will call the
cops on you :( |
| 04:33.13 |
*** part/#brlcad iday
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:46.50 |
brlcad |
damn, burnt
the coffee a little |
| 04:47.21 |
brlcad |
mm.. and
beowulf comes out today as well as love in the time of
cholera |
| 04:58.39 |
``Erik |
beowulf...
the movie? |
| 04:58.48 |
``Erik |
cuz, uh, ya
MIGHT be a LITTLe behind for the book |
| 04:59.51 |
``Erik |
when I lived
in memphis, I was maybe 5-6 minutes walk from the library, and had
started getting old enough to have an appreciation for
history |
| 05:00.11 |
``Erik |
so the first
book I checked out was the oldest (source) book they had...
beowulf... |
| 05:00.23 |
``Erik |
and next was
'the prince' |
| 05:00.26 |
``Erik |
then I moved
:/ |
| 05:01.35 |
``Erik |
project
gutenburg seems promising, but at the computer, I keep dorking
around instead of reading :( |
| 06:03.02 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
movie |
| 06:03.42 |
brlcad |
i read the
book too, hail hrothgar! |
| 06:03.54 |
brlcad |
but the movie
has angelina hawtness |
| 06:04.24 |
brlcad |
the
screenplay is probably no better than tomb raider, but still
fun |
| 06:22.49 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 06:58.56 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r333 10/trunk/libirc/ (11 files in 6 dirs):
s/receve/receive/g |
| 07:08.38 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:55.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:18.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:39.45 |
Defcon |
happy hacking
today |
| 10:54.01 |
*** join/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 10:59.29 |
*** part/#brlcad rpaddock
(n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) |
| 11:08.00 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-015-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:18.15 |
*** join/#brlcad bpoole
(n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) |
| 13:39.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 14:30.53 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:11.23 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad1
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 15:27.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487402A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:29.12 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 15:43.34 |
brlcad |
Defcon: heh,
thx ;) |
| 15:45.05 |
Defcon |
haha
:) |
| 15:45.10 |
Defcon |
was like 6
hours ago :) |
| 15:45.22 |
Defcon |
my hacking
day is over in 15 minutes |
| 15:45.22 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 15:47.50 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 15:47.51 |
Defcon |
good
:) |
| 15:48.00 |
Defcon |
did u have a
productive day? |
| 15:48.20 |
brlcad |
a productive
night |
| 15:48.24 |
brlcad |
it's now 10am
:) |
| 15:48.25 |
Defcon |
:D |
| 15:48.33 |
brlcad |
been going
since 9am yesterday |
| 15:48.44 |
Defcon |
25hours
straight.. :) |
| 15:49.45 |
Defcon |
my SQL Server
is being a bitch :@ |
| 15:57.05 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: fail gracefully
when xpush is called with a primitive, instead of
crashing |
| 15:57.45 |
Defcon |
.. |
| 15:57.53 |
Defcon |
is that a
good sign? |
| 15:59.04 |
brlcad |
(user
visible) |
| 15:59.20 |
``Erik |
well |
| 15:59.33 |
``Erik |
if you have a
moment, mind making sure I didn't change valid
semantis? |
| 15:59.35 |
``Erik |
semantics |
| 16:00.01 |
brlcad |
after my
phonecon, sure |
| 16:00.47 |
``Erik |
aight, I
don't wanna chew on NEWS if my 'fix' breaks stuff... :D (staying in
(and/or going home) for lunch?) |
| 16:01.34 |
Defcon |
cya next
week |
| 16:01.38 |
Defcon |
<== going
home |
| 18:59.17 |
yukonbob |
nice toenail
polish |
| 18:59.52 |
yukonbob |
what do you
call that colour? |
| 19:24.11 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-73-143.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:26.03 |
*** join/#brlcad iday
(n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:00.20 |
*** join/#brlcad ManicMechE
(n=MrSand@c-24-147-123-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:01.10 |
ManicMechE |
quick
question |
| 20:01.49 |
ManicMechE |
I just
installed BRL-CAD 7.10.on my Mac |
| 20:02.00 |
ManicMechE |
7.10.4 |
| 20:02.17 |
ManicMechE |
and I'm not
sure where to find anything that it installed |
| 20:02.57 |
ManicMechE |
not in the
applications folder |
| 20:03.04 |
ManicMechE |
not in the
root directory |
| 20:03.13 |
ManicMechE |
not in my
home directory |
| 20:08.55 |
``Erik |
hum, mebbe
look for /usr/brlcad ? |
| 20:09.39 |
brlcad |
ManicMechE:
you'll need to run X11 (in Utilities folder), then run
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 20:09.48 |
brlcad |
in the xterm
that opens up |
| 20:09.55 |
brlcad |
alas we're
still tied to X11 on the mac |
| 20:10.40 |
ManicMechE |
I found it on
my own, but it seems angry |
| 20:10.43 |
``Erik |
30 hours
now? |
| 20:11.08 |
ManicMechE |
Break on
__THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTI |
| 20:11.08 |
ManicMechE |
NALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to
debug. |
| 20:12.42 |
ManicMechE |
(sorry if I'm
a bit of a noob, I've been teaching myself how to use the command
line and just getting into oss and such) |
| 20:14.28 |
brlcad |
ManicMechE:
did it actually say that? |
| 20:14.42 |
brlcad |
that's the
first I'ver heard of that.. |
| 20:15.01 |
brlcad |
you can run
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f and it won't detach |
| 20:15.23 |
ManicMechE |
yep |
| 20:18.19 |
ManicMechE |
hey, now I'm
getting somewhere |
| 20:18.34 |
ManicMechE |
brlcad:
thanks, I'll let you know if I have anymore questions |
| 20:27.06 |
brlcad |
ManicMechE:
no problem, someones always here ;) |
| 20:27.30 |
brlcad |
``Erik: and I
entirely intend to stop at the gym on the way home for a couple
hours |
| 20:38.21 |
prasad1 |
ah
gym |
| 20:38.34 |
prasad1 |
lost all
interest after i left |
| 20:38.37 |
prasad1 |
:( |
| 20:39.19 |
iday |
prasad1!!!
:-) How' |
| 20:39.21 |
iday |
s it
going? |
| 20:39.41 |
iday |
iday ==
jlo |
| 20:39.49 |
``Erik |
heh, so
you're punchdrunk and goofy... and you'll make sure your muscles
are worn down and you're short on bloodsugar and energy? when're
you driving, I wanna make sure I'm not ont he road at the same time
O.o :D |
| 20:39.53 |
iday |
if you
forgot |
| 20:40.12 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 20:40.16 |
``Erik |
hennifer
hopez |
| 20:40.19 |
iday |
brlcad is
crazy... but we all know that |
| 20:40.25 |
iday |
what-eva
``Erik |
| 20:40.57 |
iday |
can we get
over the j-lo thing? |
| 20:41.04 |
prasad1 |
jlo! |
| 20:41.07 |
prasad1 |
sup
man |
| 20:41.09 |
``Erik |
that
southpark had some awesome gags :D |
| 20:41.18 |
iday |
prasad1:
sup |
| 20:41.26 |
prasad1 |
wmrd? |
| 20:41.30 |
iday |
vtd |
| 20:41.33 |
prasad1 |
ahso |
| 20:41.34 |
iday |
:-) |
| 20:41.35 |
prasad1 |
cool
cool |
| 20:41.46 |
prasad1 |
hows nettie
and the lil tyke |
| 20:41.59 |
iday |
working on NN
and vision based target tracking with GA |
| 20:42.19 |
prasad1 |
good
stuff |
| 20:42.51 |
brlcad |
hm, prasad1
where you still here before or after the benchpress
competition? |
| 20:43.05 |
prasad1 |
after |
| 20:43.13 |
brlcad |
okay, thought
so |
| 20:43.34 |
brlcad |
yeah, you
were here after I'd started back up rowing |
| 20:43.45 |
brlcad |
whining about
going because you were trying to look good for her |
| 20:43.56 |
prasad1 |
wahahah |
| 20:44.06 |
prasad1 |
there's a gym
in my bldg |
| 20:44.12 |
prasad1 |
i should step
it up |
| 20:44.18 |
prasad1 |
need
motivation :( |
| 20:44.44 |
brlcad |
look at your
belly |
| 20:44.49 |
brlcad |
and skinny
arms |
| 20:44.52 |
brlcad |
that's ll the
motivation I need |
| 20:45.11 |
prasad1 |
lol |
| 20:45.12 |
prasad1 |
indeed |
| 20:46.15 |
prasad1 |
is the
delicate flower still around? |
| 20:46.17 |
prasad1 |
heh |
| 20:46.40 |
brlcad |
no, you left
remember |
| 20:47.06 |
brlcad |
actually
she's up working for Mr. T now |
| 20:47.50 |
prasad1 |
really |
| 20:48.01 |
prasad1 |
that's good
(right?) |
| 20:48.59 |
brlcad |
she seems to
enjoy it |
| 20:49.11 |
brlcad |
and she "won"
it, so yeah, it's good |
| 20:49.54 |
prasad1 |
orly? |
| 20:49.55 |
prasad1 |
heh |
| 20:51.21 |
``Erik |
http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Any-Key-or-Any-Other-Key.aspx |
| 20:52.31 |
iday |
:-) |
| 20:59.26 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) |
| 21:16.45 |
ManicMechE |
ok, so it was
working great for a little while, now when I try to type at the
mged prompt, it........does weird stuff |
| 21:17.51 |
ManicMechE |
and after
killing it and starting again a couple times, it is miraculously
fixed? |
| 21:18.08 |
ManicMechE |
methinks
maybe it's not getting along with Leopard |
| 21:20.06 |
brlcad |
hrm, if you
can repeat or quantify what you mean.. |
| 21:20.26 |
brlcad |
I've not seen
any issues on Mac with the latest yet except for remote
X11 |
| 21:20.59 |
ManicMechE |
I switched
away in spaces for a moment |
| 21:21.12 |
ManicMechE |
when I
switched back, both Terminal and the X11 windows were
gone |
| 21:21.42 |
ManicMechE |
when I got
them back (just fiddling around), trying to type at the mged prompt
caused it to behave erratically |
| 21:21.48 |
ManicMechE |
such as the
prompt disappearing |
| 21:21.54 |
ManicMechE |
it tabbing
over |
| 21:22.11 |
ManicMechE |
it deleting
bits of what was already there |
| 21:22.18 |
ManicMechE |
I had to kill
it through the gui |
| 21:22.33 |
ManicMechE |
I started it
again |
| 21:22.38 |
ManicMechE |
same
business |
| 21:22.41 |
ManicMechE |
killed it
again |
| 21:22.43 |
ManicMechE |
started
again |
| 21:22.46 |
ManicMechE |
and now it
works fine |
| 21:25.27 |
brlcad |
oh, I read
about that with Spaces |
| 21:26.12 |
brlcad |
on the Tk
mailing list, it's a bug in X11 fixed in latest sources but not in
10.5 yet |
| 21:26.24 |
brlcad |
affecting
windows and input control |
| 21:26.37 |
ManicMechE |
I suspected
as much |
| 21:26.57 |
ManicMechE |
moving x11
windows across spaces has already proven to be bad news for
me |
| 21:27.11 |
brlcad |
there's
actually one guy at Apple that was dedicated to work on the
problem, he was asking for help from X11 devs |
| 21:27.36 |
brlcad |
apparently a
really hard set of bugs |
| 21:28.56 |
ManicMechE |
I would
imagine |
| 22:03.35 |
*** part/#brlcad prasad1
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 22:03.43 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad1
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 22:24.29 |
*** join/#brlcad minute
(n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) |
| 23:16.33 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 23:16.41 |
CIA-27 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r335 10/trunk/libirc/ (12 files in 7 dirs): start a
static lib to consolidate the IRC bot logic into a more manageable
class. |
| 00:13.55 |
yukonbob |
brlcad vs.
The Bug |
| 00:13.57 |
yukonbob |
ttp://coolkits.net/G%20vs%20Mothra.jpg |
| 00:14.02 |
yukonbob |
*http |
| 00:44.24 |
CIA-27 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (dg_obj.c wdb_obj.c): remove dead
code. there's closedb instead of overriding default close command,
tol is a wdb_obj command. |
| 03:36.58 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726729.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:01.44 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
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| 06:12.13 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
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| 06:53.42 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-MIA
(n=relay@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:05.27 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-28
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 07:11.15 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:31.11 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_rt_isect.c: yet another place to
report an unknown class instead of bombing out. |
| 07:32.16 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_class.c: if we exhaust the retry
count, just give up instead of bombing out. otherwise this can
cause havoc for even simple optional operations like trying to fix
normals. |
| 07:37.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: |
| 07:37.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD: if
we encounter an invalid shell with bad results, stop processing
entirely. |
| 07:37.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD: this
avoids an avalanche of cascaded failures and potential bomb
situations |
| 07:37.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
where we can usually proceed. this particular problem was
encountered during |
| 07:37.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
g-iges that had a shell that could not be classified (resulted in
infinite loop |
| 07:37.43 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD: and
array indices that went out of bounds, eventually
crashing). |
| 07:50.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:53.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 07:53.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
fixed variety of g-iges and other exporter crashes and graceful
handling of mesh |
| 07:53.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
normal failures. started with a particular model that was failing
in the bot's |
| 07:53.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
tess() routine during the expensive nmg_fix_normals() processing.
turned out |
| 07:53.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD: that
the model was going amuck while trying to determine shell
orientation |
| 07:53.04 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
eventually overflowing a char in an inf loop until it crashed. the
specific |
| 07:53.06 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
cause of the inf loop wasn't determined, but it does now detect the
shell |
| 08:22.53 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:51.29 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 09:12.01 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 09:45.22 |
*** join/#brlcad lachyg
(n=lachlan@ppp121-45-2-37.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 09:46.04 |
lachyg |
Hi. Is there
a way in which I can rotate a combination? Or am I going about
things in the wrong way? |
| 09:46.43 |
lachyg |
I've created
a combination led.c = u led.plastic.r u led.metal.r, and want to
rotate it around. Is there a way to do this? |
| 09:47.13 |
Z80-Boy |
lachyg: I do
it by putting the combination into another combination, then
opening the another combination in vi using red, loading a unit
matrix from /home/clock/m and then editing the matrix to get the
desired rotation. I need only rotation in multiples of 90
degrees. |
| 09:47.39 |
Z80-Boy |
the unit
matrix is 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 |
| 09:47.55 |
lachyg |
So there's
nothing simple like rot led.c 0 0 90? |
| 09:48.42 |
Z80-Boy |
maybe is but
for me figuring out which command it is what parameters it has and
what meaning these parameters have and what exactly it does is
about 2 days, whereas the aforementioned sequence is about 1
minute. |
| 09:49.18 |
Z80-Boy |
Cause the
documentation is missing a lot of important information and I
always forget it when I figure it out, because I use BRL-CAD not
continuously, but intermittently. |
| 09:49.33 |
lachyg |
Ok. I'll
probably have to write a script for it then, as I have not the
patience to do it 12 times ;) |
| 09:49.38 |
lachyg |
Ah, I
see. |
| 09:49.42 |
lachyg |
Thanks for
your help. |
| 09:49.51 |
Z80-Boy |
you might
benefit in finding out the command |
| 09:50.07 |
Z80-Boy |
Don't worry,
you don't find it in the official doc. You either have to ask
brlcad or reverse engineer the huge codebase. |
| 09:50.12 |
Z80-Boy |
Or maybe
experiment out |
| 09:50.25 |
lachyg |
heh |
| 09:50.43 |
Z80-Boy |
Like I never
know if the angles are counter or clockwise, which axis is the
first rotation around, if it rotates in the source or destination
space etc. |
| 09:50.51 |
Z80-Boy |
With the
matrix it's simple |
| 09:51.28 |
Z80-Boy |
You start
with your sub-model then apply the matrix and then you get what's
one level higher in the hierarchy. |
| 09:51.44 |
Z80-Boy |
The first 4
numbers are what goes into X upper in the hieararchy |
| 09:52.18 |
Z80-Boy |
the first,
fifth, ninth numbers are concerning X in the original
submodel. |
| 09:52.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Was also hell
figuring if it's like this or lower/upper is swapped |
| 09:53.31 |
lachyg |
Hmm, I
probably should read my linear algebra book again. |
| 09:53.32 |
Z80-Boy |
and in the
cross, where is the letter X that's pointing into the positive
direction |
| 09:53.40 |
Z80-Boy |
no you don't
need linear algebra |
| 09:53.46 |
Z80-Boy |
It's just
like drink mixing |
| 09:54.09 |
Z80-Boy |
you have 3
bottles x y z and 3 glasses X Y Z |
| 09:54.20 |
Z80-Boy |
the matrix
tells you how much x, y, z should go into X |
| 09:54.25 |
Z80-Boy |
how much x,
y, z should go into Y |
| 09:54.32 |
Z80-Boy |
how much x,
y, z should go into Z |
| 09:54.49 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 09:55.34 |
lachyg |
Yeah---I just
need to figure out the theory behind it again. Thanks for your
help. |
| 09:55.45 |
lachyg |
Ah, looks
like matrices are the only way to go. |
| 09:56.50 |
Z80-Boy |
lachyg: no it
was actually assumed that people will use those commands to make it
simpler so they don't have to crunch matrices in their
heads |
| 09:56.59 |
Z80-Boy |
But because
of bad documentation, crunching matrices is easier for me
;-) |
| 09:57.24 |
lachyg |
http://www.nabble.com/20-questions-t3863486.html |
| 09:57.26 |
lachyg |
#2
there |
| 09:59.28 |
Z80-Boy |
Oh lol this
should be in the official doc and not on google resul page number
1137 |
| 10:01.14 |
lachyg |
I suspect
so. |
| 10:01.41 |
Z80-Boy |
Also if you
create a complicated model like I do then redrawing the display
takes a minute |
| 10:01.53 |
Z80-Boy |
so one minute
to shift, one minute to zoom, one minute to change view
etc... |
| 10:02.01 |
Z80-Boy |
really
blazing workflow speed ;-) |
| 10:02.27 |
Z80-Boy |
ANd I have
1500 MHz Pentium III! |
| 10:02.57 |
lachyg |
heh |
| 10:03.09 |
lachyg |
Could be
worse. |
| 10:03.12 |
lachyg |
Could be
paper. |
| 10:03.12 |
Z80-Boy |
I suspect
because someone got an idea to wedging a blotware called X Windows
system between the CPU and the AGP bus |
| 10:03.21 |
Z80-Boy |
X Window is
fast in theory but slow in practice ;-) |
| 10:03.39 |
Z80-Boy |
Moving a
piece of paper 20cm right doesn't take a minute, but a
second. |
| 10:04.30 |
Z80-Boy |
You can draw
a line in a microsecond, but if you first have to email the
coordinates to the X Window System through a socket it gets
horrible |
| 10:06.04 |
Z80-Boy |
I think I
should report a bug |
| 10:06.08 |
Z80-Boy |
"mged dead
slow" ;-) |
| 10:06.43 |
Z80-Boy |
and that's
wireframe! |
| 10:07.56 |
Z80-Boy |
Cause it took
me a whole bus trip to put model piece A to model piece B so that
they touch each other |
| 10:12.08 |
lachyg |
Ah, think
I've figured it out. |
| 10:12.20 |
lachyg |
Made a new
combination like you said, then used arced |
| 10:15.59 |
Z80-Boy |
oh what does
it do? |
| 10:16.34 |
lachyg |
Applies a
matrix transformation to an element of a combination. |
| 10:17.00 |
lachyg |
arced
led.1.t/led.c matrix rmul rot 0 0 90 |
| 10:17.02 |
Z80-Boy |
omg why is it
called arced? With such a name I would expect to do something with
arcs |
| 10:17.33 |
Z80-Boy |
lachyg: where
did you find out you should type "arced led.1.t/led.c matrix rmul
rot 0 0 90"? |
| 10:18.07 |
lachyg |
In the
documentation (Volume 2), appendix A, page 158 |
| 10:19.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Interesting
I'll look there. |
| 10:26.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Blue_D
(n=bluedolf@192.57-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 10:41.35 |
lachyg |
Ah, now I've
got it. You have to remember that your transformations are in the
element's co-ordinate space. |
| 11:43.17 |
*** join/#brlcad alex_jon1
(n=juve@81.196.65.201) |
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*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by
irc.freenode.net |
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| 12:41.47 |
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| 12:41.47 |
Defcon |
wb all
:) |
| 12:42.29 |
Defcon |
[13:31:07]
<@brlcad> lachyg: oed /
led.c/led.plastic.r/path/to/some/prim |
| 13:27.07 |
*** join/#brlcad Blue_D
(n=bluedolf@192.57-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 13:50.08 |
Defcon |
<Z80-Boy> It's just like drink
mixing |
| 13:50.15 |
Defcon |
.. |
| 13:50.18 |
Defcon |
how...
:) |
| 14:06.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Defcon: how
what? |
| 14:08.12 |
Defcon |
i didn't get
your logic |
| 14:08.18 |
Defcon |
but i guess i
do now |
| 14:11.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487721C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:14.20 |
brlcad |
lachyg: was
starting to say that the 'oed' command is another way to do what
you were asking, you go into "object edit mode" on an object
specifying where you want to apply a matrix and what primitive to
use a coordinate system reference |
| 14:14.56 |
brlcad |
then you can
use the 'orot' or 'objrot' commands to do a rotate |
| 14:15.14 |
brlcad |
those and
other commands are listed on the mged cheat sheet
reference |
| 14:16.44 |
Defcon |
hmmm..
ok |
| 14:16.46 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:26.55 |
brlcad |
in mged
lingo, an "arc" is the same as an object "path", not a 2D/3D
geometric arc but a logical arc through the geometry
hierarchy |
| 14:27.26 |
brlcad |
arced could
have just as readily been named pathed, but the 'arc' convention
goes back to early 80's |
| 14:29.14 |
brlcad |
so when
you're specifying an 'oed' object edit, think of all paths to
primitives in your model, /comb/path/to/region/to/primitive .. you
can apply a matrix after any one of those '/'s so you separate that
to a left and right-hand side |
| 14:30.25 |
brlcad |
so if I
wanted to apply a matrix over the instance of region used in that
'path' object, I would have specified oed /comb
path/to/region/to/primitive |
| 14:32.58 |
Defcon |
impressive |
| 14:33.11 |
Defcon |
a matrix = an
array(in vb)? |
| 14:35.35 |
brlcad |
hm? |
| 14:35.46 |
brlcad |
a matrix can
be stored as an array in most languages |
| 14:36.05 |
brlcad |
it's just a
list of 4 or 9 or 12 or 16 numbers usually :) |
| 14:36.20 |
Defcon |
ah |
| 14:36.21 |
brlcad |
usually 16
for 3D homogeneous coordinates |
| 14:36.31 |
Defcon |
lol |
| 14:36.34 |
brlcad |
4x4
matrix |
| 14:36.41 |
Defcon |
still way to
advanced for me |
| 14:36.42 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:40.34 |
Z80-Boy |
I never know
which *ed command can be used in which mode |
| 14:40.41 |
Z80-Boy |
So I never
use them that's the safest ;-) |
| 14:42.01 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:42.03 |
Defcon |
true |
| 14:42.08 |
Z80-Boy |
Matrix is
just a way how to mix outputs from inputs |
| 15:12.04 |
``Erik |
I thought it
was where neo used to live |
| 15:12.47 |
Defcon |
:D |
| 15:30.02 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: note fix to xpush |
| 15:37.03 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: do
you use CRT or LCD? |
| 15:38.29 |
Defcon |
whow first
line in this channel i fully understand :) |
| 15:41.05 |
``Erik |
people still
use crt's? O.O |
| 15:50.10 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: I
just had to replace a LCD with CRT - if I ran compilation there
were horizontal stripes randomly jumping on the screen |
| 15:50.18 |
Z80-Boy |
I tried a
different LCD and the same problem |
| 15:50.41 |
Z80-Boy |
Then I tried
CRT and it's OK. Plus I have more uniform white, better black and
brighter colours. |
| 15:53.33 |
PrezKennedy |
and 3x less
desk space! |
| 15:55.22 |
Z80-Boy |
The video is
unbeliavebly smooth on CRT!P |
| 15:55.55 |
Z80-Boy |
PrezKennedy:
I rather sacrifice some desk space than having to watch
stripes |
| 15:57.03 |
PrezKennedy |
only when you
compile right? |
| 16:01.01 |
``Erik |
crt's are
analog only, lcd's can take digital... if you were using a full
digital path, mebbe your videocards digital part is messed up, or
mebbe the analog just 'blurs' over the lines and ya don't see the
bad signal.... crt running close to full resolution will usually be
60fps, where an lcd will be around 40fps, but the lcd won't have
any kind of 'tearing' since the pixel stays 'lit' the same until
next update, where a crt has a decay e |
| 16:02.09 |
``Erik |
oops, too
much geek, skeered him off |
| 16:03.06 |
``Erik |
if it was
just during compilation, may've been crosstalk effecting things...
I know one of my old computers had problems with that, heavy load
and I'd start hearing it on the speakers, and for some reason the
mouse set it off, too O.o |
| 16:03.48 |
PrezKennedy |
i hear that
once in awhile with a computer thats quite new... |
| 16:04.18 |
Z80-Boy |
Well it was
analog |
| 16:04.30 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:04.30 |
Z80-Boy |
and it was
because the card apparently gets a clock jitter. |
| 16:04.34 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:04.41 |
Z80-Boy |
But clock
jitter should display as shifting of a line. |
| 16:04.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Shifting an
object doesn't change it's brightness. But in this case the
brightness flickered tremendously. |
| 16:05.06 |
``Erik |
didja try
moving the video cable around while compiling to see if it altered
the behavior? |
| 16:05.08 |
Z80-Boy |
That means
the LCD is showing something else than is in the signal,
period. |
| 16:05.24 |
prasad_ |
gameboy? |
| 16:05.26 |
Z80-Boy |
No but I
tried moving the LCD around, away from my desk. |
| 16:05.30 |
Z80-Boy |
That
helped. |
| 16:05.44 |
PrezKennedy |
do you
compile often? |
| 16:05.56 |
Z80-Boy |
That's
completely irrelevant. |
| 16:05.57 |
``Erik |
if two
seperate lcd's showed the same thing, then the lcd is properly
showing the signal, the signal is improper... crt's tend to be a
lot more robust to 'funny data' in analog mode O.o |
| 16:06.06 |
prasad_ |
gameboy has a
z80 :o |
| 16:06.22 |
Z80-Boy |
No the LCD is
showing something else |
| 16:06.29 |
Z80-Boy |
The problem
is the sampling is done improperly. |
| 16:06.45 |
Z80-Boy |
They leave
out the sampling filter to satisfy the Nyquist
criterion |
| 16:06.58 |
Z80-Boy |
CRT doesn't
do any sampling. |
| 16:07.10 |
Z80-Boy |
So you either
1) do no sampling, or 2) do sampling properly |
| 16:07.17 |
``Erik |
crt isn't
digital, it's a "natural" sampling mechanism |
| 16:07.39 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't care
how they implement it inside the monitor, it just has to show
what's on the line |
| 16:07.56 |
``Erik |
... a crt
DOESN'T show exactly what's ont he line, that's my point,
dude |
| 16:08.02 |
Z80-Boy |
For me it's a
blackbox. Shows the right picture? stays on the desk. Doesn't?
Flies away. |
| 16:08.25 |
``Erik |
smells to me
like you're fixing the symptom, not the problem *shrug* |
| 16:08.26 |
Z80-Boy |
It doesn't
but it's better than with LCD |
| 16:08.37 |
Z80-Boy |
And also I
tried playing a music video... much smoother movements! |
| 16:08.45 |
``Erik |
'sup,
prasad? |
| 16:08.50 |
Z80-Boy |
Like fast
dance and rapid camera movements... |
| 16:08.53 |
Z80-Boy |
It was like
in real! |
| 16:09.08 |
Z80-Boy |
With LCD I am
feeling like losing track of the movement. |
| 16:09.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Sorry, but if
I am more happy with CRT then it's better for me. |
| 16:09.29 |
PrezKennedy |
you need a
faster LCD screen! |
| 16:10.15 |
Z80-Boy |
I suspect
LCD's have an internal refresh rate that runs asynchronously with
the VGA refresh rate and causes temporal aliasing |
| 16:10.40 |
Z80-Boy |
And the black
on LCD is horrible and on white I see Haidinger's brushes all
around |
| 16:10.41 |
prasad_ |
even with
vsync on? |
| 16:11.05 |
Z80-Boy |
The vsync was
on all the time |
| 16:11.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Without vsync
the picture loses vertical sync |
| 16:15.13 |
*** join/#brlcad ucrit
(n=lucky@202.152.172.3) |
| 16:15.43 |
``Erik |
hum,
older/cheaper lcd's have a 25ms response rate, which is sorta kinda
the same as a refresh rate of 40hz, opposed to a 'normal' crt (at
max res) of around 60hz... the lcd's I'm sitting at have 14ms
response, which maths out to 71hz O.o prezkennedy may have a point
there :D |
| 17:33.33 |
*** join/#brlcad ucrit
(n=lucky@202.152.172.3) |
| 17:42.51 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487721C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:13.25 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 18:17.08 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.179.226) |
| 18:48.34 |
``Erik |
howdy
ho |
| 19:10.20 |
``Erik |
heheh e
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1788161 |
| 19:21.00 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:27.15 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-86-16.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:53.17 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: both
at home, but lcd predominantly |
| 19:58.28 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: is
there a way to get rid of the warning when I put a region into
another region? |
| 19:58.40 |
Z80-Boy |
I thought the
"inherit" flag would logically turn it off but it
doesn't |
| 20:19.42 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: typo,
brrrrcad |
| 20:26.44 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 20:27.58 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: do
you know how to get rid of the warning when I put a region into
another region? |
| 20:36.27 |
``Erik |
um, no?
:) |
| 20:39.27 |
Z80-Boy |
It's very
handy because I have a complex thing where each part is coloured a
different way and now I want to make a variant which is all
grey |
| 20:39.27 |
*** join/#brlcad nedko
(n=nedko@89.253.148.98) |
| 20:39.37 |
Z80-Boy |
So I just put
it into a region and override it all |
| 20:39.48 |
``Erik |
it's just a
warning, though, right? it still works? |
| 20:40.10 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't want
all the matrices to be duplicated because that's a bad
practice |
| 20:40.15 |
Z80-Boy |
Yes it works
but warns |
| 20:40.40 |
Z80-Boy |
Warning: you
are using an efficient method. |
| 20:40.50 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 20:41.25 |
``Erik |
um, one of
the bigger reasons BRL-CAD gets funded is to support another piece
of software that pukes all over itself when any primitive is seen
twice in the tree... |
| 20:42.18 |
``Erik |
we say it's
their problem, they say it's ours, the warning keeps the poor users
from stepping on landmines in a battle between developer
groups |
| 20:43.02 |
``Erik |
(if I'm
guessing correctly... brlcad might be able to confirm or correct me
on that) |
| 20:44.31 |
Z80-Boy |
What
?!? |
| 20:45.09 |
Z80-Boy |
If I have a
grille with 100x100 holes, I have to crate 10,000 primitives to
satisfy this idea of nonrepeating primitives? |
| 20:45.24 |
``Erik |
ayup |
| 20:45.32 |
``Erik |
why do ya
think I've been working on 'clone' lately? |
| 20:45.41 |
``Erik |
(I think it's
idiotic, too...) |
| 20:46.42 |
Z80-Boy |
And if I
realize the filtering action of the grille needs to be adjusted and
change the holes from 4mm to 5mm, I have to edit ebery single
primitive? |
| 20:46.48 |
Z80-Boy |
OMG
WTF |
| 20:47.06 |
``Erik |
um,
everything in the database can be expressed without confusion using
the path, right? well, these guys only look at the last entry on
the path list and map it to their own names... so they require a
1-1 mapping of geometric primitives to a physically unique
'thing' |
| 20:47.35 |
``Erik |
which is why
ya see request tickets to warn or remove "instancing" in the sf
bugs and feature requests... |
| 20:48.13 |
``Erik |
and it's been
that way for 20 years now :( |
| 20:50.57 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't know
if "everything in the database can be expressed without confusion
using the path, right? |
| 20:51.01 |
Z80-Boy |
" |
| 20:51.55 |
Z80-Boy |
if you have 2
M5x20 hex head bolts, do you have two physically unique things or
two instances of one physical thing? |
| 20:51.58 |
``Erik |
/part1/hole1/generichole
/part1/hole2/generichole ... ? |
| 20:52.25 |
Z80-Boy |
yes that's
how I do it |
| 20:52.40 |
``Erik |
that would be
instancing... 'generichole' only exists once, but you know where it
goes due to the full path being a unique identifier... |
| 20:53.14 |
``Erik |
opposed to
just taking the last part, how do you distinguish between
"generichole" and "generichole", even though you know they are in
different physical locations? |
| 20:53.57 |
``Erik |
we say "use
the full path", they say "don't allow instancing" |
| 20:53.58 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 20:54.24 |
Z80-Boy |
It's TIA/EIA
- Training In Absurdity, Exercise In Absurdity |
| 20:54.51 |
dtidrow_work |
good
grief |
| 20:54.51 |
``Erik |
and I THINK
that might be the reason for that specific warning being in there,
because now you have /part1/hole1/generichole vs
/greyview/part1/hole1/generichole... or 'generichole' vs
'generichole' for this certain consumer |
| 20:55.07 |
``Erik |
I
*THINK* |
| 20:55.23 |
dtidrow_work |
somebody
needs to go over there and start swinging the cluebat
around |
| 20:55.36 |
``Erik |
again, if
brlcad were to drag his arse in and either correct me or add
something... :D |
| 20:56.26 |
dtidrow_work |
still |
| 20:56.32 |
Z80-Boy |
now the
machines are fast but BRL-CAD is still slow |
| 20:56.35 |
dtidrow_work |
unnecessary
bloat |
| 20:56.44 |
Z80-Boy |
my most
complex model takes 1 minute to redraw in mged |
| 20:56.58 |
Z80-Boy |
open menu,
close menu, wait a minute until the black rectangle left by the
menu redraws... |
| 20:57.04 |
Z80-Boy |
change the
zoom, wait a minute. |
| 20:57.08 |
Z80-Boy |
Shift the
zoom, wait a minute. |
| 20:57.15 |
``Erik |
hey, man, I
don't like the practice eather, I'm just trying to guess at the
reason for that warning being in there :) |
| 20:57.41 |
``Erik |
heh, we have
people routinely blowing the 2g limit on 32b builds
here |
| 20:57.57 |
dtidrow_work |
how many
parts are in that model, Z80-Boy? |
| 20:58.24 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't know
how do I figure out? |
| 20:58.32 |
``Erik |
don: fear his
p233 ;) |
| 20:58.39 |
Z80-Boy |
I have
p1500 |
| 20:58.49 |
dtidrow_work |
``Erik:
lol |
| 20:59.51 |
``Erik |
being a
command line dork, I'd sdo something like "mged -c file.g ls -l |
grep -v 'comb\|region' | wc -l |
| 21:00.44 |
``Erik |
errr, "mged
-c /usr/brlcad/share/db/moss.g ls -l 2>&1 | grep -v
'comb\|region' | wc -l" |
| 21:00.47 |
``Erik |
(on fbsd,
using bash) |
| 21:03.06 |
Z80-Boy |
0 |
| 21:03.11 |
Z80-Boy |
should I
count >&2 instead? |
| 21:04.08 |
Z80-Boy |
444 |
| 21:06.17 |
dtidrow_work |
brlcad:
morning ;-) |
| 21:06.37 |
``Erik |
I d'no, I'm
not a csh user... bash, ksh, zsh, I'm there... but not
csh |
| 21:07.40 |
brlcad |
inherit is
only for visual property inheritance (i.e. shader
properties) |
| 21:07.54 |
brlcad |
howdy
dtidrow_work |
| 21:08.23 |
brlcad |
not quite the
reason -- there is a code that craps on itself if there's
particular combinations of regions in regions, but in this case
that's not even the issue |
| 21:08.59 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: from
what I'm hearing, it sounds like a misunderstanding of what it
means to have that region bit set/unset |
| 21:09.21 |
brlcad |
it has
nothing to do with the color properties, it has to do with space
occupancy |
| 21:10.53 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: so
how do I do that properly? |
| 21:10.53 |
brlcad |
you've
basically said "this thing is wood, and now this _same_ thing used
in a higher-level context is now not wood" |
| 21:10.56 |
brlcad |
so it (very
correctly) warns you that you've just changed the material *type*
(which again has nothing to do with color or shader properties, has
to do with physical occupancy) |
| 21:11.36 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: the
easy thing is unset the region bit on the higher level
combination |
| 21:11.46 |
brlcad |
there should
only be one region on any path down the hierarchy |
| 21:12.24 |
brlcad |
think of it
as the "region" simply being when it goes from shape
(blueprint/pattern) to solid (occupies space, has mass) |
| 21:12.50 |
brlcad |
you're just
wanting a color override, that has nothing to do with
regions |
| 21:13.06 |
brlcad |
you can color
override any combination node |
| 21:14.33 |
brlcad |
dtidrow_work:
there is a cluebat needed on that other code's behavior, but
entirely unrelated to this issue ;) |
| 21:14.47 |
``Erik |
<-- toldja
he was guessing :D |
| 21:14.53 |
brlcad |
they do have
an instancing name conflict problem, but they deal with it in their
own "special" way |
| 21:15.17 |
``Erik |
and I have a
tendancy to go heavy on the code side, not so much the
geometry/modeling side *shrug* O:-) |
| 21:15.28 |
dtidrow_work |
heh |
| 21:17.22 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: yes
but if I unset the bit, the things starts being colourful
again. |
| 21:17.58 |
Z80-Boy |
It's this
one: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax_0.png |
| 21:17.59 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean? |
| 21:18.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Normally the
thing is one welded piece and all grey from zinc
plating |
| 21:18.35 |
Z80-Boy |
But I had to
paint each piece individually to be able to refer to it in the
assembly manual. |
| 21:19.12 |
Z80-Boy |
So each
colour is an individual region and the resulting thing is a
complicated combination of these regions, because they must not
overlap so where they join one has to "give way" |
| 21:19.18 |
``Erik |
what about
making every piece a combination... then having two things that
refer to it, a color manual copy with many regions, and a seperate
display copy with all zinc |
| 21:19.24 |
Z80-Boy |
Now I want to
paint the whole thing gray. Now making it over whole
again. |
| 21:19.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487721C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:19.50 |
``Erik |
then the
colorful regions all get grouped in their own assembly or something
to give an easy handle... :) |
| 21:20.31 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: Once
I group them I cannot paint them individually later |
| 21:20.40 |
Z80-Boy |
So they have
to be first painted then grouped |
| 21:20.52 |
``Erik |
yes |
| 21:21.09 |
Z80-Boy |
I could just
merge all the *.r things into one huge and remove the "give ways"
and retain the matrices |
| 21:21.15 |
``Erik |
/display/comb1/parts...
/manual/region1/comb1/parts... |
| 21:21.31 |
Z80-Boy |
But that's
bad practice. It can lead to shape inconsistency between the two
copies |
| 21:21.35 |
``Erik |
no |
| 21:21.39 |
``Erik |
because comb1
is comb1 |
| 21:21.57 |
``Erik |
two seperate
regions point to the same combination underneath (yes, instancing,
pheer) |
| 21:22.10 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) |
| 21:22.16 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't want
that |
| 21:22.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I just want
to overpaint a region grey |
| 21:22.33 |
Z80-Boy |
Sorry, a
combo of regions |
| 21:22.51 |
``Erik |
then suck it
up and take the warning :) |
| 21:23.32 |
Z80-Boy |
what do you
mean with "display" and "manual" |
| 21:23.55 |
``Erik |
'display'
would be a region containing all your 'part'
combinations. |
| 21:24.15 |
``Erik |
'manual'
would be a combination, containing a set of regions (one for each
part), and each region contains one 'part' combination |
| 21:24.37 |
Z80-Boy |
yes |
| 21:24.50 |
``Erik |
so if you
change a bolt size, BOTH regions see it, and you don't violate the
'one region per path' restriction |
| 21:25.53 |
Z80-Boy |
Now for
example the "blue" region constains some elements with
matrices |
| 21:26.17 |
Z80-Boy |
so I have to
copy the region into a combo, unset the region flags and insert the
combo into a region right? |
| 21:26.39 |
Z80-Boy |
I can not
only change sizes of things but also their mutual
positions. |
| 21:28.18 |
Z80-Boy |
What all do I
have to do to properly deregionize? |
| 21:31.27 |
``Erik |
um, I'd try
to create a new region with the material and only one 'child', the
old region... then figure out how to turn off the region bit on the
old region, so it's just a plain combination |
| 21:31.51 |
``Erik |
<--
doesn't know jack about USING the software, just a tiny bit about
what's under the hood |
| 21:32.12 |
``Erik |
I'm a
mechanic, not a pilot |
| 21:32.44 |
Z80-Boy |
What happens
if I only turn off the region bit but don't remove LOS, material ID
shader colour etc.? |
| 21:32.51 |
Z80-Boy |
does BRL-CAD
get into an inconsistent state or not? |
| 21:32.58 |
``Erik |
(kinda more
the machinist building the tools and parts for the mechanics... but
that's going awful far on an analogy tangent) |
| 21:35.53 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
again, color has nothing to do with it being a region or
not |
| 21:36.11 |
brlcad |
you just
happened to make regions via the commands you used (presumably the
r command) |
| 21:36.26 |
brlcad |
you can
"unset" them as regions using the combination editor on the edit
menu |
| 21:36.35 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:36.50 |
brlcad |
being a
region really is just a 0/1 bit flip on a combination |
| 21:37.05 |
brlcad |
and relating
to physical space _occupancy_ |
| 21:37.40 |
``Erik |
on disk...
right? regions and combinations have a few different 'in-memory'
data bits, I think? |
| 21:38.00 |
brlcad |
so you have
whatever grey hierarchy of objects, you can create another
hierarchy separate from that with all of the colors set, or set the
colors at two levels with an override |
| 21:39.36 |
brlcad |
``Erik: not
really for what he's doing, but yes -- there are a few other
relevant parameters like LOS thickness, aircodes, the actual region
ident code, etc |
| 21:39.59 |
brlcad |
basically
things that affect spatial occupancy or evaluation of that
occupancy |
| 21:40.05 |
``Erik |
is it
possible to demote a region to a combination? |
| 21:40.13 |
``Erik |
without
killing and rebuilding it? |
| 21:40.16 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:40.24 |
brlcad |
just open the
combination editor and uncheck the region box |
| 21:40.37 |
``Erik |
there ya go,
karel :D |
| 21:40.56 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: just
did it :) |
| 21:40.59 |
brlcad |
it really is
just an on/off flag on combinations from mge's
perspective |
| 21:41.00 |
``Erik |
(is there a
command backed way to do it? for a geek who doesn't wanna keep
grabbing the mouse? or someone doing it in a script?) |
| 21:41.14 |
brlcad |
hrm, there
is.. |
| 21:41.18 |
Z80-Boy |
I did it with
red |
| 21:41.28 |
brlcad |
something
like attr put region 0 |
| 21:41.29 |
Z80-Boy |
I just had to
turn off the plastic and the colour otherwise it complained
warning |
| 21:41.40 |
brlcad |
forget the
exact |
| 21:41.45 |
brlcad |
there's a
half-dozen ways |
| 21:42.09 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: it
complained probably because color override wasn't set |
| 21:42.24 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: what
is color override good for? |
| 21:42.47 |
Z80-Boy |
can you have
a combo with assigned color that overrides color of underlying
regions? |
| 21:42.48 |
brlcad |
says whether
the top-level color overrides lower-level colors |
| 21:43.35 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:44.46 |
Z80-Boy |
Hmm when you
do B before the previous B finishes, it often hangs or
segfaults. |
| 21:44.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Advanced
treatment of cricial sections, I would guess. |
| 21:45.24 |
brlcad |
really?
huh |
| 21:45.35 |
brlcad |
i've not seen
that |
| 21:45.38 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: I
could save al lthe work you said |
| 21:45.57 |
Z80-Boy |
I just got
it. All I need to do is put the colourful thing into a combo tick
up inherit set colour and plastic |
| 21:46.01 |
Z80-Boy |
and it
doesn't complain! |
| 21:46.05 |
CIA-28 |
ow |
| 21:46.09 |
Z80-Boy |
If it's gonna
segfault is a different question ;-) |
| 21:46.26 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: is
that a correct method? |
| 21:46.53 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:47.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Why didn't
you tell? |
| 21:47.01 |
brlcad |
(thought
that's what I said) :) |
| 21:47.23 |
brlcad |
said create a
separate hierarchy, set colors and inherit |
| 21:47.30 |
``Erik |
ok, yeah,
that sounds a bit easier than doing a per-combination
hoist |
| 21:47.46 |
Z80-Boy |
what's a
separate hierarchy and a hoist? |
| 21:48.05 |
Z80-Boy |
now I
understand what the inherit is for |
| 21:48.12 |
brlcad |
great
:) |
| 21:48.14 |
Z80-Boy |
it should be
called "overpain" or something like that |
| 21:48.17 |
Z80-Boy |
overpaint |
| 21:49.01 |
brlcad |
it says
during mater command "Lower nodes inherit this node's material
settings" or something pretty similar |
| 21:49.24 |
brlcad |
likewise the
help option on the comb editor |
| 21:49.27 |
Z80-Boy |
does it also
inherit the material weight? |
| 21:49.41 |
Z80-Boy |
density I
mean |
| 21:50.04 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@216.114.141.246) |
| 21:51.21 |
brlcad |
good
question.. I don't believe so |
| 21:51.32 |
Z80-Boy |
so it's just
a cosmetic thing |
| 21:51.36 |
Z80-Boy |
and
refraction index? |
| 21:51.45 |
brlcad |
yeah,
afairemember, it's the shader |
| 21:51.48 |
brlcad |
and
color |
| 21:52.31 |
brlcad |
refraction
index is a shader parameter for phong, so yeah |
| 21:53.30 |
Z80-Boy |
OK thanks now
it's all easy |
| 21:53.37 |
brlcad |
lets you
quickly do things like create a new top-level combination called
"glasstank" and turn a whole tank into glass (if you wanted such an
effect), and likewise up and down a hierarchy |
| 21:53.51 |
Z80-Boy |
exactly!
That's almost what I want! |
| 21:54.51 |
prasad_ |
mmm
glass |
| 21:54.56 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 21:57.51 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-MIA
(n=relay@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:58.15 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos__
(n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 22:06.05 |
nedko |
brlcad: can
you please add lash project (http://cia.vc/stats/project/LASH)
to CIA-MIA,#lac |
| 22:06.54 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (geometree/Makefile.am
swidgets/scripts/Makefile.am): missed a couple dirs, include
pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex in the dist |
| 22:07.08 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad *
10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Windows/Makefile.am:
missed command.png, add to dist |
| 22:07.38 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos___
(n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 22:08.01 |
brlcad |
nedko:
done |
| 22:08.14 |
nedko |
brlcad:
thanks! |
| 22:09.11 |
brlcad |
np |
| 22:16.40 |
``Erik |
heh,
nifty |
| 22:17.50 |
``Erik |
such a brlcad
move...
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/alreadylicked128392284542500000.jpg |
| 22:18.07 |
brlcad |
hehe |
| 22:30.51 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r341
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp:
ws |
| 22:31.29 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r342 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h
src/botlib.cpp): methods to let the bot respond to methods
privately instead of public if it's a channel message. |
| 22:37.45 |
*** part/#brlcad nedko
(n=nedko@89.253.148.98) |
| 22:47.45 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r343 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h
src/botlib.cpp): |
| 22:47.45 |
CIA-28 |
libirc: make
stuff that is supposed to be private to the bot class, be well
private. |
| 22:47.45 |
CIA-28 |
libirc: move
the isForMe method to protected, and make it virtual in case anyone
wants to override it's logic with more complex logic. |
| 23:02.36 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.179.226) |
| 23:03.39 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r344 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h
src/botlib.cpp): data utils for the config class |
| 23:04.03 |
*** join/#brlcad illethal
(n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.23 |
*** part/#brlcad illethal
(n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:16.04 |
yukonbob |
!ah right --
Heroes night tonight... |
| 23:17.29 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 00:00.45 |
starseeker |
It depends.
Apparently FIT doesn't, or maybe this one is just too
old... |
| 00:01.26 |
starseeker |
Or too
obscure... my interests do seem to run that way
sometimes |
| 00:04.27 |
brlcad |
haven't made
it out the door actually |
| 00:05.05 |
louipc |
starseeker:
maybe they just have a really weird delivery system |
| 00:05.32 |
starseeker |
made an
interesting mental image - brlcad on a runner coding
away |
| 00:05.41 |
brlcad |
african
swallows |
| 00:05.50 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
i've done that before |
| 00:05.59 |
starseeker |
Does it burn
more calories? ;-) |
| 00:06.21 |
brlcad |
the jolting
is a bit hard though.. elliptical or bike are slightly
easier |
| 00:06.37 |
starseeker |
Ah, yes. I'm
an elliptical fan myself |
| 00:07.19 |
starseeker |
louipc:
Apparently some years back someone implemented a basic Lisp using
Forth as a substrate |
| 00:07.45 |
starseeker |
louipc: They
published a paper and a thesis, and so far I can't find either one
online anywhere. |
| 00:08.14 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 00:08.26 |
starseeker |
My local
library couldn't even request the thesis from the college itself
successfully - I'm going to have to try ordering a physical back
issue of the journal |
| 00:09.00 |
starseeker |
I suppose
it's not an idea that would appeal to most people
anyway... |
| 00:09.42 |
starseeker |
It's of
interest to me in the context of building a proof backed system all
the way down to the machine language itself |
| 00:09.56 |
louipc |
I guess not
otherwise it might be more accessible |
| 00:10.28 |
starseeker |
I've got half
a notion to scan the whole lot of 'em if I do get ahold of them,
but regrettably our copyright laws have something to say about
that... |
| 00:12.16 |
louipc |
in canada
it's legal to put a book on a photocopier, just not to push the
copy button or something |
| 00:12.48 |
starseeker |
LOL. So all
you need is a "smart" copier that identifies when a document is
there and automatically copies it :-) |
| 00:13.32 |
louipc |
they used
that analogy in some p2p case ... so it's legal to present the
public with what backup copies of software, music, or
movies |
| 00:13.54 |
brlcad |
academic use
is one of the fair use clauses |
| 00:14.56 |
brlcad |
I scanned
several entire books in college at the uni library |
| 00:14.59 |
louipc |
starseeker:
yeah you wouldn't sell it would you now? |
| 00:15.44 |
starseeker |
No, but I
understand that's irrelevant to copyright infringement |
| 00:16.15 |
starseeker |
It has
something to do with what damages you can collect,
IIRC... |
| 00:17.55 |
starseeker |
So few people
actually want to learn things, the fewer artificial barriers around
knowledge the better |
| 00:19.16 |
starseeker |
Particularly
publicly funded research - the tax payers are paying for it, after
all... |
| 00:19.35 |
louipc |
yeah of
course if it's publicly funded |
| 00:20.02 |
starseeker |
I guess when
universities noticed the revenue they could get from patents
generated by research that was more or less the end of the
"knowledge for knowledge's sake" environment... |
| 00:22.39 |
starseeker |
Maybe that's
why I like open source so much - there's still a sense of fun in
it |
| 00:23.30 |
louipc |
I like it
because there's a sense of hope in it |
| 00:25.40 |
starseeker |
That
too |
| 00:26.46 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 00:26.56 |
``Erik |
starseekers
unified theory of computation? "it's forth all the way
down"? |
| 00:27.02 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 00:27.34 |
starseeker |
More along
the lines of "I need a way to get from machine language to Lisp
that has a hope of being understood by a wide audience" |
| 00:27.52 |
``Erik |
oh,
uh |
| 00:27.56 |
``Erik |
pdp assembly
isn't that? |
| 00:28.09 |
starseeker |
pdp
assembly? |
| 00:28.21 |
``Erik |
or ibm 704
asm? :D |
| 00:28.38 |
starseeker |
Ah :-). The
other requirement is portability. |
| 00:28.55 |
starseeker |
I've heard it
said you can get to a working Forth environment in a very small
number of machine instructions |
| 00:29.12 |
``Erik |
so get a 704
emulator |
| 00:29.27 |
``Erik |
I mean, shit,
'car' and 'cdr' come from 704 opcodes... |
| 00:29.51 |
starseeker |
It may be
possible to do a VERY basic Lisp straight from machine
code |
| 00:29.59 |
starseeker |
That was the
first Lisp, after all |
| 00:31.43 |
``Erik |
hmmm, indeed
O.o |
| 00:31.59 |
``Erik |
a minimal
lithp can be done in 7 operations |
| 00:32.04 |
starseeker |
Sweet |
| 00:32.15 |
``Erik |
uhm, paul
graham has a paper explaining each of them |
| 00:32.19 |
starseeker |
I wonder what
the actual minimal bootstrap path is |
| 00:32.31 |
``Erik |
then you need
another dozen or so to make a useful lisp, which will still need
bits of asm |
| 00:32.37 |
starseeker |
Sure. |
| 00:33.07 |
``Erik |
but after
those 7, you quickly go from writing asm to writing lithp with a
little augmenting goop under the hood |
| 00:34.02 |
starseeker |
That could be
a way to go. |
| 00:34.15 |
``Erik |
(or writing
forth, or writing ...) |
| 00:34.38 |
starseeker |
The key is
understandability, and (possibly) being able to prove properties of
code |
| 00:35.26 |
``Erik |
then you
naturally want to avoid silicon like x86... |
| 00:35.51 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 00:35.59 |
starseeker |
Indeed. If
at all practical, I would prefer to build a system using open cores
and hardware... |
| 00:36.13 |
starseeker |
I think the
ultrasparc specs are out there, aren't they? |
| 00:36.30 |
``Erik |
the reason
I'm keen on a lithp/scheme 'primitive' operating system is to get
away from things like mixing C function semantics with lithp
function semantics |
| 00:37.21 |
``Erik |
I think so,
uh, 'opensparc' or something? there're other specs that might be
better to address... naturally, you want hte simplest ISA with
minimal 'fancy' stuff if you really want provability... taht is, if
you don't assume the hw is magic... |
| 00:37.40 |
starseeker |
Ah - ha:
http://www.opensparc.net/opensparc-t2/ |
| 00:37.55 |
``Erik |
cache,
pipelines, variable sized opcodes, ... all complications
:) |
| 00:38.33 |
starseeker |
My take on it
is pretty much as follows: From the software standpoint, start
with machine language as the assumed correct layer and work up.
Everything below that is subject to experimental
verification |
| 00:39.02 |
starseeker |
Of course,
some hardware designs can be verified in theory, but that's just
part of the platform design. |
| 00:39.04 |
``Erik |
dig into some
OS code sometime, there're so many workarounds for flawed hw,
its'sick |
| 00:39.12 |
starseeker |
Indeed |
| 00:39.56 |
starseeker |
We could just
do an implementation of the lisp machine on a chip, but I'd prefer
something that has a non-zero chance of doing useful work within
this century ;-) |
| 00:40.08 |
``Erik |
hrmmmm |
| 00:40.14 |
``Erik |
but those did
useful work in the 80's |
| 00:40.27 |
starseeker |
True
enough. |
| 00:40.39 |
``Erik |
arrogant
academic spazzes crappe all over thenotion of 'business sense' (cuz
it was evil) |
| 00:40.51 |
``Erik |
or
somethin' |
| 00:40.58 |
yukonbob |
SPARC is only
a spec... |
| 00:41.00 |
starseeker |
I've always
wondered what a from scratch implementation of a "modern" OS would
actually need from hardware, if it didn't have to do any legacy
support |
| 00:41.30 |
starseeker |
For sure
Windows Vista isn't a good way to judge... |
| 00:41.34 |
``Erik |
what exactly
defines "operating system", "modern, and "legacy
support"? |
| 00:41.51 |
``Erik |
thems're
fuzzy topics :D |
| 00:42.31 |
starseeker |
Capable of at
least opengl level graphics, multithreaded multitasking, and
implementing compilers/drivers/etc only for one hardware
design |
| 00:42.33 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
see NetBSD -- one codebase to rule them all... |
| 00:42.40 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
Heh |
| 00:42.47 |
``Erik |
is "posix"
legacy support? |
| 00:42.59 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Good
question. |
| 00:42.59 |
``Erik |
what about
supporting a ps/2 kbd when usb is available? |
| 00:43.11 |
starseeker |
I'd say usb
only |
| 00:43.24 |
``Erik |
how modern is
modern? everything these days seems to be rehashing of things that
were popular 20-50 years ago |
| 00:43.26 |
starseeker |
(so long as
adapters exist for my IBM keyboard ;-) |
| 00:43.52 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Oh,
I don't dispute it's a fuzzy topic |
| 00:43.54 |
``Erik |
is opengl all
that modern? |
| 00:44.09 |
starseeker |
No, but it
seems to still be a useful graphical standard. |
| 00:44.21 |
yukonbob |
``Erik:
opengl?!!! Two minutes ago we were talking about lisp! |
| 00:44.47 |
``Erik |
what defines
a thread? a sun style "string"? or a UNIX process? or the linux
'whatever you specify' monstrosity? |
| 00:44.47 |
yukonbob |
back to the
future. |
| 00:45.10 |
starseeker |
yukonbob: In
order to support 3D graphics, you need to be able to work with
graphics hardware. There are some lisp implementations of opengl,
IIRC, but they are very basic... |
| 00:45.35 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
There I'm not an expert. |
| 00:45.36 |
``Erik |
yukonbob: I'm
trying to tear down starseekers vague requirements... personally, I
LIKE both lisp and opengl |
| 00:46.21 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
of course -- I was just joking about definitions of "modern" and
OpenGL -- but a couple minutes ago you were talking about
implenting Lisp in Forth -- funny how "standards" change (for some
definition of "standards") |
| 00:46.24 |
starseeker |
I'm not
disputing those requirements are vague. I just know I wouldn't
want to try using a modern interactive CAD modeling environment on
a 386 with no graphics acceleration ;-) |
| 00:46.48 |
``Erik |
hum |
| 00:46.50 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
They're all part of the solution to the problem, or they might
be |
| 00:46.54 |
``Erik |
like one of
those? |
| 00:47.02 |
starseeker |
Bingo
:-) |
| 00:47.52 |
yukonbob |
"a 386 with
no gfx acceleration" is an implementation detail -- not a design
requirement. |
| 00:48.13 |
starseeker |
It's an
example of a system that would not meet the
requirements |
| 00:48.38 |
yukonbob |
what's that
got to do with OS design, though? |
| 00:49.22 |
yukonbob |
and what are
the "requirements"? It wasn't *that* long ago where one would start
a render and wait many, many hours for it to finish... |
| 00:49.25 |
starseeker |
Well, the
original motivating problem was/is to create a computer algebra
system that produces answers that can be trusted |
| 00:49.58 |
yukonbob |
well -- are
you saying 80386s are not trustworthy? Maybe moreso than some
pentiums ;) |
| 00:49.58 |
starseeker |
so that's
where discussions of hardware come in, because if your hardware
can't be trusted it's game over before the software even
begins... |
| 00:50.35 |
``Erik |
thus my
argument for absolute minimal hw... :D wtf does ogl have to do with
provable computation? |
| 00:50.36 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
I'm not sure. But proving properties about them and software
written in their machine code would likely be more of a challenge
than for some other platforms, which was ``Erik's point |
| 00:50.54 |
starseeker |
provably
correct visualization of a surface plot? |
| 00:51.29 |
starseeker |
So, if we
want "absolute minimal hw" but still want to solve interesting
problems, where's the middle ground? |
| 00:51.35 |
starseeker |
that was how
all that started |
| 00:51.44 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
well --- if you've got a good test harness, and keep primitives to
a minimum, according to ``Erik you can bootstrap a Lisp environment
in 7 instructions... |
| 00:52.03 |
starseeker |
Hehe |
| 00:52.10 |
``Erik |
um, 7
primitive functions, not necessarily 7 instructions |
| 00:52.15 |
starseeker |
Right |
| 00:52.27 |
``Erik |
and you need
more to do anything beyond a minimal symbol processor
:D |
| 00:52.38 |
``Erik |
I'd hate to
code up math routines in symbol land |
| 00:52.39 |
yukonbob |
right -- but
that's still a small amount of code than writing a whole common
lisp env in asm |
| 00:53.04 |
``Erik |
be about as
useful as a calculator in sed :D (and a similar construction, I'd
imagine) |
| 00:53.20 |
``Erik |
and I aint'
never said nothin' about common lisp... |
| 00:53.32 |
``Erik |
be a fair
amount of work to make a provable lisp1.5 :D |
| 00:53.33 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
For something like Axiom, I'm assuming most of Common Lisp would be
needed. So the question becomes how to get there from
nothing |
| 00:53.44 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
Indeed! |
| 00:54.01 |
starseeker |
It was
actually some guys on comp.lang.lisp that pointed me to
Forth |
| 00:55.07 |
``Erik |
that's the
natural way a lithper works, yukonbob |
| 00:55.17 |
starseeker |
Whether it's
a project that is possible or even interesting is certainly up for
debate. I suspect this all goes back to my phyiscs professors in
undergrad, who stressed the point we couldn't trust Mathematica to
give us the right answer |
| 00:55.52 |
``Erik |
recursive
fully computational macros, 'top up' primitive operations, build
your DSL implementation bit at a time until the problem is
trivial |
| 00:56.14 |
starseeker |
While of
course they were correct (and the primary point of needing to
develop one's own mind is independent of the trustworthiness of the
CAS) I became fascinated by the question "what would it take to
create a CAS that COULD be trusted to give the right
answer?" |
| 00:56.15 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: --
and so, with 7 primitives, audited for good code (which is _still_
only an implementation detail) and sound logic, you've got a system
-- and it's got _nothing_ to do with whether it's running on an
atari or a cray. |
| 00:56.38 |
``Erik |
what was the
quote about solving every problem by adding another level of
abstraction? :D |
| 00:57.05 |
``Erik |
it has to be
proven to run on SOMETHING, dude... whether silicon or a forth
vm |
| 00:57.14 |
starseeker |
Correct |
| 00:57.52 |
``Erik |
oh, so the
ALU abstracted to microcode abstracted to the ISA abstracted to C
is too much? :D |
| 00:58.06 |
yukonbob |
"it" is the 7
(or however many) primitives... of course it has to run -- unless
"imagination" qualifies as a type of computer too... |
| 00:58.08 |
``Erik |
flying
electrons abstracted to gates abstracted to the alu? |
| 00:58.36 |
``Erik |
dude, it's
abstractions all the way down! |
| 00:58.40 |
starseeker |
A stack of
machine -> machine language -> Forth -> Lisp ->
SPAD/Aldor/Qi is probably about the minimum needed to get the
proper tradeoffs in complexity and functionality. |
| 01:01.07 |
starseeker |
The idea of
Forth would be that since it is optimized to need very few machine
commands to go from nothing to Turing Complete, it would offer the
minimum "proof burden" when porting from one platform to another.
That of course is only in theory, since a proper lisp compiler
would still need to know a lot about the machine arch. to do
anything serious, but it's a start |
| 01:02.08 |
starseeker |
Or if the
machine happens to have a good ASM (like the IBM 704) you could
skip the Forth and go straight to Lisp |
| 01:02.43 |
``Erik |
hum, with new
developments in quantum understanding and microphysics going on,
are gates even provable? O.o or just statistically ok and
overengineered to compensate? |
| 01:02.49 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 01:02.56 |
starseeker |
``Erik: A
good point, actually |
| 01:03.04 |
starseeker |
``Erik:
You're quite correct |
| 01:03.04 |
yukonbob |
``Erik:
++ |
| 01:03.18 |
starseeker |
``Erik: The
same holds true for our brains |
| 01:03.24 |
yukonbob |
that's what
we have ECC memory for... |
| 01:03.31 |
``Erik |
brains are
provably wrong, due |
| 01:03.33 |
``Erik |
dude |
| 01:03.47 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Just
most of them ;-) |
| 01:03.49 |
``Erik |
ecc is
another example of statistical over-engineering, not
provability... |
| 01:04.13 |
yukonbob |
right -- the
reason it's _needed_ is because of errors... |
| 01:04.17 |
``Erik |
math types
are weird |
| 01:04.46 |
starseeker |
What you can
do is prove that the behavior is correct, assuming a given behavior
of the hardware |
| 01:04.54 |
starseeker |
this is if
you fully understand your software |
| 01:05.18 |
``Erik |
yeah, but
then you have turing-church theories, lambda calculus, ... it's all
done |
| 01:05.19 |
yukonbob |
but obviously
not the hardware, or at least can't guarantee the
hardware... |
| 01:05.20 |
starseeker |
If you know
the statistical behavior of your hardware, you can then estimate
(with a LOT of work) the probability that a given calculation is
incorrect |
| 01:05.28 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 01:06.28 |
starseeker |
So if we ever
understood fully how our own brains solved problems, we could also
come up with a probability that a given human performed calculation
was incorrect |
| 01:09.11 |
starseeker |
I think
someone broke down the problems humans like to solve into four
categories: solvable, not specifically solvable but can prove a
solution exists, provably not solvable, and problems where we can't
prove one way or the other whether it can be solved or
not |
| 01:10.23 |
starseeker |
sorry
guys |
| 01:11.46 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03JeffM2501 * r354
10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc7.1/stupidBot.vcproj: include
the URLManger |
| 01:15.07 |
louipc |
wowzers |
| 01:15.16 |
starseeker |
louipc:
? |
| 01:15.21 |
``Erik |
sorry, the
only proofs I work with these days tend to be 10, 80, and 100
O:-) |
| 01:15.28 |
louipc |
lots going on
here eh? |
| 01:15.39 |
starseeker |
No, just me
going offtopic ;-) |
| 01:16.09 |
louipc |
``Erik: I
worked with a 140 proof, man that was caustic |
| 01:16.42 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
re: four categories -- didn't dick cheney go on about that wrt iraq
:) |
| 01:17.01 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
Argh, he might have |
| 01:17.31 |
yukonbob |
similar, not
the same -- some goofy, confusing-ish rambling... |
| 01:17.50 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:18.04 |
``Erik |
151, dude
:D |
| 01:18.16 |
starseeker |
Politics is
definitely a problem where we can't even make definite statements
of whether it's solvable in theory or not ;-) |
| 01:18.26 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: thats
your proof? :) |
| 01:18.37 |
yukonbob |
Oddfellows
Local 151 |
| 01:18.43 |
``Erik |
I haven't
worked with bacardi 151 in a bit |
| 01:18.57 |
``Erik |
but it was
fun :D light the shot on fire... etc |
| 01:19.07 |
``Erik |
but that
NEEDED a back on it |
| 01:19.18 |
louipc |
how fast does
it burn? |
| 01:19.29 |
starseeker |
Jeez - you
must have a Teflon shot glass. |
| 01:19.38 |
``Erik |
um, I d'no,
it didn't let it stay lit very long.... |
| 01:19.51 |
``Erik |
didn't wanna
break the shotglass and didn't wanna lose all the fuel
:D |
| 01:19.56 |
louipc |
ah |
| 01:19.59 |
yukonbob |
this makes me
wish for some sambuca about now... |
| 01:20.01 |
louipc |
fuel!
yeah |
| 01:20.02 |
``Erik |
I have a
massively thick shotglass |
| 01:20.20 |
yukonbob |
sure you do,
``Erik |
| 01:20.20 |
louipc |
sambuca is
too dang sweet |
| 01:20.23 |
``Erik |
in fact, it's
begging for a little bushmills right now O.o |
| 01:20.35 |
``Erik |
I'll go weigh
it :D |
| 01:20.58 |
yukonbob |
louipc: try
Annisette |
| 01:21.21 |
louipc |
I'll try to
remember that |
| 01:21.30 |
``Erik |
my normal
shooter is 65g, the one I like to use is 170g |
| 01:21.57 |
louipc |
haha
YES |
| 01:22.33 |
``Erik |
or, wait,
sorry I'm a stupid american, lemme go measure those in uh, ounces
or something |
| 01:24.03 |
starseeker |
Humph - the
opensparc download requires registration? |
| 01:24.05 |
yukonbob |
ye |
| 01:24.07 |
yukonbob |
ww |
| 01:24.09 |
yukonbob |
yes |
| 01:24.12 |
yukonbob |
fsck |
| 01:24.15 |
yukonbob |
;) |
| 01:24.20 |
starseeker |
lol |
| 01:25.27 |
``Erik |
sun has been
slow to embrace 'open' in the way we think of it |
| 01:25.33 |
``Erik |
look at the
old java licenses |
| 01:30.56 |
yukonbob |
``Erik: use
Tcl bytecode and we can integrate it w/ BRL-CAD ;) |
| 01:33.39 |
``Erik |
heh, does tcl
even have bytecode? |
| 01:34.16 |
yukonbob |
``Erik:
yup |
| 01:39.04 |
yukonbob |
louipc: also,
Passione Nera |
| 01:41.38 |
``Erik |
I'm gonna
start using 'courics' as the weight measurement for
everything. |
| 02:00.41 |
louipc |
an acre is
the area of a rectangle who's length is one furlong and who's width
is one chain |
| 02:39.52 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 02:40.06 |
``Erik |
which happens
to be a classic western farm plot |
| 04:26.37 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 04:28.32 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
BeOS was specifically designed as a "from scratch implementation"
that was generally hailed as a major [technical] success at the
time albeit a failure commercially (CEO was an idiot) |
| 04:32.16 |
brlcad |
and I learned
a new word, thanks :) .. that hasn't happened unintentionally in a
really long time :) |
| 06:26.16 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (33 files in 33 dirs): make
the AdditionalIncludeDirectories paths match for Debug and
Release |
| 06:51.23 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-94-134.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:11.00 |
*** join/#brlcad DEFCON_
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:22.10 |
*** join/#brlcad weebee
(i=86dd8008@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-c128800636ce22c3) |
| 08:39.26 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:50.35 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 11:42.51 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslb-088-070-030-248.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:57.31 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
guess that's why the Haiku OS guys have been stubbornly plodding
along. It does look interesting. |
| 13:13.55 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Changing
the build order to force tclsh to build sooner. Tclsh is used early
in the build to create the install tree. |
| 13:30.35 |
DEFCON_ |
C joke :D -
http://www.ianai.net/jokes/WillNotThrow.gif |
| 14:56.17 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 17:42.49 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 17:45.14 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
yeah, I was really big on BeOS for years .. Haiku doesn't have the
impressive foundation that Be had, but they've kept the same basic
philosophy and have made a ton of great progress on reviving the
effort |
| 17:45.43 |
brlcad |
and as open
source, it's at least bound to "not fail" so long as someone's
still working on it ;) |
| 17:46.14 |
brlcad |
they're
really close to a first 1.0 release, so it'll likely be slashdotted
and activity may really kick-start after then |
| 17:59.39 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 17:59.41 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
annotate the opengl display manager problems where the display
doesn't |
| 17:59.43 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
automatically update any longer if the context is invalidated;
mention that the |
| 17:59.45 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
libfb ogl interface seems horribly broken at the moment as it just
crashes |
| 17:59.47 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
(consistently, at least on Mac OS X); and mention that the open
dialog problems |
| 17:59.59 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD: seem
to be Mac OS X specific too as they worked under Linux (7.10.1 Mac
also |
| 17:59.59 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
seemed to work fine, so something since then). |
| 18:00.48 |
brlcad |
``Erik: what
do you mean by fix the hacks -- add more of them, or do something
about them so they're not hacks? |
| 18:01.48 |
brlcad |
I worked on
what to do about that a while ago and didn't see any really easy
fix for the problem given the way the data is being marshalled into
and out of ClientData objects |
| 18:02.50 |
``Erik |
add them
until they get fixed? |
| 18:03.02 |
``Erik |
make 'em
easily greppable, anyways |
| 18:03.30 |
brlcad |
okay, just
checking what 'fix' meant -- works for me |
| 18:03.46 |
``Erik |
given that
ClientData is a point type, defining the field as size_t MIGHT be
workable, but that field is sometimes used as an int and sometimes
as a pointer, ... |
| 18:05.12 |
``Erik |
pointer,
even |
| 18:05.17 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 *
10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Initial
check-in. This script will be called by Visual Studio to build the
install tree. |
| 18:06.55 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Calling
installTree.tcl instead of treeInit.sh. |
| 18:10.09 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: include the new
scripts in the source dist |
| 18:30.45 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/librt/ (const.c hist.c plane.c polylib.c
polyno.h snoise.c): once again, try to delete these zombie files
that have again mysteriously shown up after an update |
| 19:02.29 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Remove
command to copy clock.tcl. |
| 19:09.18 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: No longer need to define
BRLCAD_DATA and BRLCAD_ROOT. |
| 19:10.20 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Archer now uses
bwish. |
| 19:11.57 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Define WEB_BROWSER to point
to IEXPLORE.EXE. |
| 19:12.08 |
prasad_ |
boo |
| 19:14.52 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl:
brlcadDataPath can now be set the same on Windows as it is on
Unix. |
| 19:16.16 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (openw.tcl mged.tcl):
Normalize the path when setting mged_default(html_dir). |
| 19:27.53 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548743C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:59.02 |
brlcad |
yo
prasad_ |
| 20:03.12 |
prasad_ |
yo
yo |
| 20:10.26 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 *
10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copying
many more files to the install tree. |
| 20:19.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-83-251.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:53.59 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: Put things
back. |
| 21:36.26 |
``Erik |
O.O holy
crap, it worked |
| 21:38.22 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: html is no longer under doc
on Windows. |
| 21:39.53 |
brlcad |
a dirt
worked? |
| 21:43.00 |
``Erik |
heh,
yeah |
| 21:43.05 |
``Erik |
the gtk snake
thingy |
| 21:43.39 |
``Erik |
and, uh,
ain't nothin' worth worrying about for public consumption other
than perhaps terminology, I think |
| 21:45.15 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Looks like
things accidently got wacked. |
| 21:53.14 |
``Erik |
heh, I'd
forgotten about 'diva' |
| 21:55.43 |
``Erik |
hum, forgot
some stuff last night, wonder if I stopped in the middle of it or
something |
| 21:56.10 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libcommon/unpack.c
librender/plane.c librender/spall.c): update the tie_init() calls
with the new parm |
| 21:59.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in: there is
no ITK_VERSION, use ITCL_VERSION |
| 22:06.39 |
prasad_ |
http://www.kloonigames.com/blog/ |
| 22:16.52 |
Z80-Boy |
How do I do a
regular tetrahedron? |
| 22:17.00 |
Z80-Boy |
With an arbn,
n=4? |
| 22:23.04 |
brlcad |
you could do
that, but better would be to create an arb4 |
| 22:23.22 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: sync options with configure: add
dtrace, remove automatic |
| 22:23.56 |
brlcad |
(subtle, but
"arbn" are not the same as "arb#" objects) |
| 22:30.10 |
``Erik |
woops, that
sounded like a steam whistle, time to go hom |
| 22:58.42 |
minute |
http://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=5 |
| 06:00.57 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 08:10.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-77-128.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:23.51 |
*** join/#brlcad alex_joni
(n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni) |
| 10:14.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 10:15.48 |
Axman6 |
hey brlcad, i
was wondering if you'd found a fix for my circular dependancy
problem? |
| 10:22.14 |
Axman6 |
i'll be back,
testing things and need to reboot |
| 10:23.10 |
Z80-Boy |
I'll be
back... --Arnold Schwarzenegger |
| 10:26.41 |
Axman6 |
heh
:) |
| 11:04.44 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 11:48.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487683A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:24.36 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: does
brlcad also calculate polarization, Brewster angle
etc.? |
| 15:19.36 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/libtcl/libtcl.vcproj: Added a
call to build the missing include/conf files. |
| 17:02.07 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-77-128.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:02.50 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: you
around? |
| 18:27.53 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 *
10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: No longer
need to create the missing include/conf files. Added code to create
tclIndex files. Added the shareDir variable to simplify things a
bit. |
| 18:30.42 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mods
for getting the installTree script to create tclIndex
files. |
| 18:37.01 |
brlcad |
Axman6: yeah,
sorry .. was busy coding ;) |
| 18:37.10 |
Axman6 |
heh
:) |
| 18:37.15 |
Axman6 |
so i
see |
| 18:37.35 |
brlcad |
that's bob,
different dev :) |
| 18:37.40 |
brlcad |
not committed
my stuff yet |
| 18:37.42 |
Axman6 |
i'm lucky i'm
still awake at 5:30AM then i guess :P |
| 18:37.43 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ami.tcl: Created the
make_tclIndex proc. |
| 18:37.49 |
brlcad |
wow |
| 18:37.55 |
Axman6 |
ah right,
didn't check the dev |
| 18:38.15 |
Axman6 |
yeah, woke up
at 3:30 yesterday, so hard to sleep |
| 18:38.25 |
Axman6 |
the sun's
already up -_- |
| 18:38.33 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 18:39.12 |
brlcad |
so one thing
to try, just to see if it helps with the problem is to move the
libpng out of the way that is in /usr/X11/lib |
| 18:39.35 |
brlcad |
if that
works, then it can be put back and can work on coercing the search
path ordering |
| 18:39.51 |
Axman6 |
YEAH
OK |
| 18:40.15 |
Axman6 |
whoops |
| 18:43.23 |
Axman6 |
http://pastie.textmate.org/124117 |
| 18:44.35 |
brlcad |
hmm |
| 18:46.58 |
brlcad |
here's an
idea, might be enough to just avoid the whole problem by disabling
tcl's core foundation interface |
| 18:47.13 |
brlcad |
try adding
--disable-corefoundation to configure |
| 18:47.50 |
brlcad |
pastebin the
entire configure output if it'll fit |
| 18:47.50 |
Axman6 |
ok |
| 18:54.49 |
Axman6 |
http://pastie.textmate.org/124120 |
| 18:54.59 |
Axman6 |
hopefully |
| 18:55.25 |
Axman6 |
yeah that got
it all |
| 19:00.57 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 19:01.06 |
Axman6 |
hmm, running
make 0j2 really does make a difference |
| 19:01.18 |
Axman6 |
-j2* |
| 19:01.18 |
brlcad |
fwiw,
--with-all doesn't do anything |
| 19:01.33 |
Axman6 |
hmm, maybe
that was something else |
| 19:01.58 |
Axman6 |
it was
suggsted to me somewhere. anyway |
| 19:02.02 |
brlcad |
there is a
--enable-all option |
| 19:02.15 |
Axman6 |
probably
bzflag heh |
| 19:02.18 |
brlcad |
but your
results are fine, dont' really need it |
| 19:02.38 |
brlcad |
bz doesn't
have a --with-all either ;) |
| 19:03.26 |
brlcad |
our configure
script actually is a decent benchmark of overall I/O performance
:) |
| 19:03.27 |
Axman6 |
bzflag the
game? |
| 19:03.30 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 19:03.40 |
Axman6 |
hmm, wonder
what it was then... |
| 19:03.45 |
Axman6 |
oh well, not
important ; |
| 19:04.05 |
Axman6 |
haha,
awesome |
| 19:04.28 |
Axman6 |
brl-cad and
bzflag were the two things i was trying to get compiled yesterday
:P |
| 19:04.35 |
brlcad |
cad and bz
are the two I spend most of my time on :) |
| 19:05.36 |
brlcad |
as witnessed
by the ohloh metrics .. :) |
| 19:05.56 |
Axman6 |
well while
i'm at it, when i compiled bzflag, it would die after about a
minute. but i believe thT's an SDL problem |
| 19:06.02 |
brlcad |
so have you
tried the build with the --disable-corefoundation flag? |
| 19:06.16 |
Axman6 |
yeah, it's
building now |
| 19:06.18 |
brlcad |
how'd you
build sdl? |
| 19:06.27 |
Axman6 |
using
macports |
| 19:06.32 |
brlcad |
what
version? |
| 19:06.41 |
Axman6 |
1.2.12? that
sound right? |
| 19:06.45 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 19:06.50 |
brlcad |
that's nfg
:) |
| 19:06.54 |
Axman6 |
apparently
1.2.11 works fine |
| 19:06.56 |
brlcad |
needs to be
.11 |
| 19:07.01 |
Axman6 |
heh,
yeah |
| 19:07.08 |
brlcad |
or you have
to update the SDLmain.m in BZ |
| 19:07.13 |
brlcad |
to the new
one for .12 |
| 19:09.00 |
Axman6 |
don't happen
to know what needs changing off the top of your head do
you? |
| 19:10.46 |
Axman6 |
:P |
| 19:10.58 |
Axman6 |
i should
check it out of svn and build it |
| 19:11.31 |
brlcad |
we just
posted a new release |
| 19:11.42 |
brlcad |
svn head is
the next (incompatible) dev version |
| 19:11.44 |
Axman6 |
.10
one? |
| 19:11.48 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 19:11.50 |
brlcad |
that's the
latest |
| 19:11.59 |
Axman6 |
yeah that
didn't build for me |
| 19:12.09 |
Axman6 |
well it did,
but had the sdl problem |
| 19:12.42 |
brlcad |
yeah, easiest
solution is to just install the .11 SDL framework into
/Library/Frameworks and run xcodebuild |
| 19:14.25 |
brlcad |
otherwise,
you have to replace the SDLmain files in src/platform/MacOS (it's
usually bundled in a dev download from SDL folks) |
| 19:14.58 |
Axman6 |
righto |
| 19:15.14 |
Axman6 |
well brl-cad
first i think, bzflag later ;) |
| 19:15.27 |
Axman6 |
i'll probably
find brl-cad more fun anyway |
| 19:16.15 |
Axman6 |
downloaded
someone's unofficial intel build of bz... died instantly every time
:( |
| 19:17.24 |
Axman6 |
"-DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE" what's that do
exactly? |
| 19:18.17 |
Axman6 |
well really,
what do the -D flags to gcc do? |
| 19:21.27 |
Axman6 |
this gets the
fans giong quite effectively :| |
| 19:26.49 |
brlcad |
-D flags set
preprocessor defines |
| 19:29.39 |
Axman6 |
bleh, i never
got that far into my C++ book ;) |
| 19:29.50 |
brlcad |
which are
generally symbols that can modify compilation behavior, turn things
on/off but are completely driven by the code |
| 19:30.29 |
Axman6 |
bleh, same
error again |
| 19:30.30 |
brlcad |
-DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE is as if you added
"#define PNG_NO_MMX_CODE 1" to the top of every file being
compiled |
| 19:31.50 |
brlcad |
exact same
error? |
| 19:32.02 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 19:32.08 |
Axman6 |
afaict |
| 19:33.26 |
Axman6 |
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6xkfj3p&s=1
<-- eases compilation pain |
| 19:34.17 |
brlcad |
your cat?
:) |
| 19:34.28 |
brlcad |
or paris' top
falling off |
| 19:35.37 |
Axman6 |
heh, yeah my
cat |
| 19:37.28 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: first
piece of optic which was prototyped using BRL-CAD |
| 19:37.59 |
brlcad |
for what it's
worth, it'd be willing to interactively debug this problem over ssh
if you're willing to set up a temp account -- otherwise, next thing
is to edit the top-level configure.ac file and comment out the
corefoundation block |
| 19:38.46 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: to
answer your question, there's no polarization in liboptical --
maybe in libmultispectral, but I don't believe so |
| 19:38.47 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/prismascope.g
render in rear view |
| 19:39.15 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: it's
a telescope which magnifies 4 times and consists only from 4
prisms, no curved optical interfaces ;-) |
| 19:40.33 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: yeah
i would let you ssh in, but nat would make it a problem. which is a
pitty, because leopard comes with a nice temp account feature.
erases all files when you log out |
| 19:41.23 |
brlcad |
nat isn't
forwarding port 22? |
| 19:41.33 |
Axman6 |
well not to
this machine |
| 19:41.48 |
brlcad |
could run ssh
manually on another port being forwarded for single
session |
| 19:41.51 |
Axman6 |
to the
G5 |
| 19:42.58 |
brlcad |
if you want
to keep plugging away at it, edit configure.ac and look for the
block that starts with this line: |
| 19:43.01 |
brlcad |
AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether -framework
CoreFoundation is available]) |
| 19:43.04 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: ehm
forgot the name of the toplevel to render... "scene" |
| 19:43.07 |
Axman6 |
i'll try the
commenting out of core foundation stuff first. |
| 19:43.17 |
brlcad |
and comment
it all out (prefix each line with #) |
| 19:43.33 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
already seen it :) |
| 19:44.07 |
brlcad |
http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/zoom.png |
| 19:44.45 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: you
know how it works? |
| 19:44.46 |
Axman6 |
Z80-Boy:
how's that work? |
| 19:44.53 |
Axman6 |
heh |
| 19:45.51 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: I
just phoned God and asked him if he could make prism magnify from
now |
| 19:46.04 |
Z80-Boy |
because
prisms are easier to make than lenses |
| 19:46.12 |
Axman6 |
ah right,
yeah he's good like that sometimes |
| 19:46.29 |
louipc-bot |
especially
big lenses eh? |
| 19:46.46 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: if
you draw the prism picture from the schoolbook you can see the beam
inside the prism is squished |
| 19:47.00 |
Z80-Boy |
so if you cut
the prism in half into a smaller prism the squished beam comes
out |
| 19:47.13 |
Z80-Boy |
and there is
some obscure theorem meaning that if you squish the beam it
magnifies |
| 19:47.23 |
Axman6 |
heh |
| 19:47.26 |
Z80-Boy |
It also does
a spectra decomposition so you need to use a pair to cancel that
out |
| 19:47.43 |
Z80-Boy |
and another
pair of prisms to do the magnification in the other dimension
because the picture is 2D |
| 19:47.50 |
Z80-Boy |
so with 4
prisms you can have a telescope |
| 19:47.54 |
louipc-bot |
o.O |
| 19:47.57 |
Axman6 |
i'll have to
check your file when i get brl-cad compiled ; |
| 19:48.09 |
Z80-Boy |
No need for
complicated grinding of lenses - just rub two pieces of glass
against each other with some grit |
| 19:48.20 |
Z80-Boy |
or make like
aquarium from window pane float glass ;-) |
| 19:48.28 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: yes,
I know how prisms work.. and I saw how you oriented them in the
model -- pretty creative really |
| 19:49.03 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
actually saw the pair as an anamorphotic pair to fix fabry perror
laser output beam shape |
| 19:49.11 |
Z80-Boy |
perrot |
| 19:49.27 |
louipc-bot |
actually
don't the most powerful telescopes use curved mirrors? |
| 19:49.35 |
Z80-Boy |
yes |
| 19:49.49 |
Z80-Boy |
but you need
exact parabolic shape |
| 19:49.53 |
Axman6 |
cassigrain
telescopes |
| 19:49.56 |
Z80-Boy |
that's more
complicated than an exact flat shape |
| 19:50.04 |
louipc-bot |
yeah |
| 19:50.07 |
Axman6 |
as
demonstrated by the hubble |
| 19:50.17 |
Z80-Boy |
but if you
tilt my model the picture gets distorted |
| 19:50.19 |
Axman6 |
which they
screwed up originally |
| 19:50.24 |
Z80-Boy |
it seems to
work only for narrow field of view |
| 19:50.29 |
Z80-Boy |
But for laser
beams it's great |
| 19:50.36 |
louipc-bot |
:D |
| 19:50.48 |
Z80-Boy |
or for
burning stuff with the sun... |
| 19:50.53 |
Z80-Boy |
that's also
narrow field of view |
| 19:50.58 |
Z80-Boy |
but a fresnel
lens is lighter |
| 19:51.15 |
brlcad |
you can
create rather exact parabolic shapes using the epa if you wanted
to, but have fun grinding it ;) |
| 19:51.16 |
Z80-Boy |
It just
demonstrates the people in the middle ages were stupid, they could
make themselves crude telescopes from grinded gems |
| 19:51.52 |
Z80-Boy |
they didn't
need a curved surface for that |
| 19:53.31 |
Z80-Boy |
Or they could
stick 4 prisms in front of the hubble to double the input aperture
for free |
| 19:53.59 |
Z80-Boy |
just get some
window panes into the sky and then fill with water |
| 19:54.31 |
Axman6 |
but that
would severly reduce the amount of light getting through to the
sensors |
| 19:54.32 |
Z80-Boy |
this way they
could build an integralactic megagigatelescope to concentrate
significant amount of solar power and then they could zap whole
planets in the sky |
| 19:54.33 |
brlcad |
http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/prisms.png |
| 19:55.02 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: they
can coat with anti reflex |
| 19:55.11 |
Axman6 |
hdh |
| 19:55.15 |
Axman6 |
heh* |
| 19:55.59 |
Axman6 |
well water
would be very bad. the reason they have the hubble... in space.. is
because water absorbs infrared light |
| 19:56.16 |
Z80-Boy |
aha |
| 19:56.28 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: so
you do your dev work on a mac? |
| 19:56.38 |
brlcad |
most of the
time |
| 19:56.43 |
brlcad |
depends what
I"m doing |
| 19:57.17 |
Axman6 |
argh! same
error again! |
| 19:57.21 |
brlcad |
it's one of
the easiest platforms for general work, less fuss, great set of dev
tools (profiler, memory tests, etc) |
| 19:57.48 |
brlcad |
Axman6: did
you clean out the previous build? |
| 19:57.52 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 19:57.59 |
brlcad |
huh |
| 19:58.10 |
Axman6 |
but you can
neverr be sure, so i'll trash it and start again |
| 19:58.10 |
brlcad |
otool -L
src/bwish/.libs/btclsh |
| 19:58.49 |
brlcad |
and otool -L
src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl.dylib |
| 19:59.15 |
brlcad |
needed both
the section commented out and the --disable-corefoundation
flag |
| 19:59.32 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: On
Mac, not only the background should be white, but the rpps should
also have rounded corners! |
| 19:59.53 |
Axman6 |
http://pastie.textmate.org/124129 |
| 20:00.22 |
Axman6 |
and otool:
can't open file: src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl.dylib (No such file or
directory) |
| 20:01.06 |
brlcad |
ooh,
Carbon |
| 20:02.09 |
Axman6 |
nawww, cat's
asleep and twitching on me |
| 20:04.14 |
Axman6 |
anyway. is
carbon necessary for this? |
| 20:04.48 |
brlcad |
no, it's
not |
| 20:05.16 |
brlcad |
looking for
the call to leave out |
| 20:05.36 |
Axman6 |
'dnl check
whether the Carbon framework is available (used for X11 focus)'
block? |
| 20:06.57 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
next block |
| 20:07.20 |
brlcad |
and then it
should fail somewhere in the code where it's using that (which is
what I'm hunting for) |
| 20:08.16 |
Axman6 |
AC_CHECK_HEADERS( \ Carbon/Carbon.h
\ |
| 20:08.37 |
Axman6 |
comment that
out? (the carbon bit) |
| 20:08.41 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 20:08.46 |
brlcad |
that was
it |
| 20:08.57 |
brlcad |
that triggers
the code in libdm |
| 20:09.18 |
brlcad |
you'll remove
that line, can't just prefix it |
| 20:09.31 |
Axman6 |
yeah,
realised that |
| 20:10.16 |
Axman6 |
wow, this
bindi irwin show is odd |
| 20:14.59 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=bch@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) |
| 20:15.59 |
yukonbob |
hello,
cadheads |
| 20:16.12 |
Axman6 |
'lo
again |
| 20:21.54 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (lgt/error.c lgt/prnt.c libfb/fb_log.c):
mass simplification since we can assume stdarg is available, it's
c89. remove the alternatives. |
| 20:22.02 |
Axman6 |
urgh, same
error :| |
| 20:22.56 |
brlcad |
otool shows
what now? |
| 20:23.31 |
brlcad |
because we
have to get rid of all of them before it goes away |
| 20:24.00 |
brlcad |
to btclsh and
libtcl -- that last edit should have removed from btclsh, but there
might still be one on libtcl |
| 20:24.01 |
Axman6 |
exact same
thing |
| 20:24.38 |
Axman6 |
i'll try
trashing it, and going again from there |
| 20:25.02 |
brlcad |
cd src/bwish
&& make noprod && make LIBTOOL="sh
../../libtool" |
| 20:25.15 |
brlcad |
pastebin the
output of that please |
| 20:25.40 |
Axman6 |
make: *** No
rule to make target `noprod'. Stop. |
| 20:26.02 |
Axman6 |
typo? |
| 20:26.09 |
brlcad |
er, are you
building out of tree or something? |
| 20:26.25 |
Axman6 |
wait,
probably need to configure first ;) |
| 20:26.40 |
brlcad |
you just
built, no? |
| 20:26.56 |
brlcad |
you should
only need to configure again if you did a distclean |
| 20:27.10 |
brlcad |
or if you
manually deleted the Makefile |
| 20:27.16 |
Axman6 |
yeah, but i
trashed it. haven't empried trash though |
| 20:28.16 |
Axman6 |
http://pastie.textmate.org/124134 |
| 20:29.13 |
brlcad |
two problems
there |
| 20:29.28 |
brlcad |
it shouldn't
have all those -framework CoreFoundation |
| 20:29.38 |
brlcad |
OOOooh..
sorry |
| 20:29.46 |
brlcad |
you have to
run ./autogen.sh after editing configure.ac |
| 20:30.06 |
brlcad |
you're
running an out-of-date configure |
| 20:31.51 |
Axman6 |
ahh |
| 20:33.16 |
Axman6 |
'sudo ln -s
/opt/local/bin/glibtoolize /opt/local/bin/libtoolize' um, ok, don't
see how that's good advice |
| 20:33.29 |
Axman6 |
oh wait,
missed the g |
| 20:36.01 |
Axman6 |
ok,
compiling |
| 20:48.06 |
Axman6 |
well, it's
been going a good long time, looking food :) |
| 20:49.59 |
Axman6 |
why does
brl-cad install in /usr btw? why not /usr/local? |
| 20:52.18 |
Axman6 |
argh! same
error! |
| 20:52.38 |
Axman6 |
but... on a
different part of the colpile |
| 20:53.12 |
Axman6 |
make[2]: ***
[pkgIndex.tcl] Trace/BPT trap |
| 20:53.39 |
Axman6 |
which i don't
think was the same place |
| 20:57.05 |
Axman6 |
wait, not the
same error |
| 20:57.21 |
Axman6 |
oh, no it is
:( |
| 21:03.31 |
Axman6 |
brlcad:
anything i should show you? |
| 21:07.32 |
Axman6 |
heh
:) |
| 21:07.37 |
Axman6 |
i should get
some breakfast |
| 21:07.47 |
brlcad |
Axman6: still
focusing on the link line for btclsh and the otool libs |
| 21:08.51 |
Axman6 |
http://pastie.textmate.org/124147 |
| 21:08.59 |
brlcad |
if it still
lists CoreFoundation during cd src/bwish && make noprod
&& make LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool" |
| 21:09.05 |
Axman6 |
no error
there, the link one |
| 21:09.26 |
brlcad |
okay, that's
better |
| 21:09.36 |
brlcad |
otool -L
.libs/btclsh |
| 21:10.26 |
Axman6 |
http://pastie.textmate.org/124148 |
| 21:11.04 |
brlcad |
much
better |
| 21:11.23 |
brlcad |
if you run
./btclsh I presume it gives the dyld error? |
| 21:12.08 |
Axman6 |
so is it
yep |
| 21:12.23 |
Axman6 |
yep
even |
| 21:12.43 |
Axman6 |
i was going
to say so is it the dyld: Symbol not found:
__cg_png_create_info_struct |
| 21:12.50 |
Axman6 |
bit that
needs fixing? |
| 21:14.15 |
brlcad |
yeah, cd
../.. && otool -L
src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl8.5.dylib |
| 21:14.56 |
Axman6 |
three lines,
want them here? |
| 21:15.02 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 21:15.25 |
Axman6 |
/usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.dylib
(compatibility version 8.5.0, current version 8.5.0) |
| 21:15.29 |
Axman6 |
/usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib (compatibility
version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) |
| 21:15.31 |
Axman6 |
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility
version 1.0.0, current version 111.0.0) |
| 21:15.53 |
brlcad |
that's
it? |
| 21:16.11 |
Axman6 |
yeah
:\ |
| 21:16.14 |
brlcad |
well
damnits |
| 21:16.57 |
Axman6 |
indeed, it's
not making much sense now |
| 21:18.09 |
brlcad |
can you run:
src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh ? |
| 21:18.51 |
Axman6 |
no |
| 21:19.00 |
Axman6 |
dyld: Library
not loaded: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.dylib Referenced from:
/Users/Axman/compiled-projects/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh
Reason: image not found |
| 21:19.01 |
brlcad |
same cg
error? |
| 21:19.03 |
Axman6 |
Trace/BPT
trap |
| 21:19.11 |
brlcad |
ah |
| 21:19.18 |
brlcad |
cd src/other
&& make install |
| 21:20.53 |
Axman6 |
ok i can run
tclsh now |
| 21:24.43 |
brlcad |
well that's
good .. |
| 21:25.07 |
brlcad |
could change
the script to use tclsh instead, but btclsh is not really much
different .. |
| 21:25.09 |
Axman6 |
same compile
error though |
| 21:25.23 |
brlcad |
right, that
compile error is it actually trying to run btclsh |
| 21:25.41 |
Axman6 |
edit the
makefile? |
| 21:26.37 |
brlcad |
no |
| 21:26.40 |
brlcad |
at least not
yet.. |
| 21:29.17 |
Axman6 |
s/$(top_builddir)\/src\/bwish\/btclsh/tclsh
? |
| 21:29.30 |
Axman6 |
(textmate
style though) |
| 21:30.04 |
brlcad |
sure, you can
try that -- have to edit all the Makefiles in
src/tclscripts |
| 21:30.23 |
Axman6 |
yeah,
textmate makes that easy |
| 21:30.31 |
brlcad |
and have to
edit ami.tcl to have a "package require Itcl" in it |
| 21:31.20 |
brlcad |
but if btclsh
won't run, then mged won't either very likely as they have nearly
the same dependencies |
| 21:32.22 |
Axman6 |
well, passed
the usual error stage |
| 21:34.38 |
brlcad |
alas all of
this is just attempting to work around the problem instead of
fixing/diagnosing the actual problem in the ImageIO
framework |
| 21:35.07 |
Axman6 |
Elapsed
compilation time: |
| 21:35.07 |
Axman6 |
16 hours, 3
minutes, 33 seconds |
| 21:35.08 |
Axman6 |
haha |
| 21:35.26 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 21:35.42 |
Axman6 |
is there a
make check or make install option? |
| 21:35.48 |
Axman6 |
uh, make
test |
| 21:37.03 |
Axman6 |
yeah, mged
dies |
| 21:37.19 |
brlcad |
run make
install |
| 21:37.34 |
brlcad |
maybe
different dyld behavior after installed |
| 21:37.43 |
brlcad |
since we do
at least embed the right rpaths for what we use |
| 21:37.51 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 21:39.02 |
Axman6 |
well, at
least this is all working towards possible leopard
compatability |
| 21:40.00 |
Axman6 |
hey does
launchd handling X11 launching affect you at all with
brlcad? |
| 21:40.24 |
Axman6 |
and installed
now. run make test? |
| 21:41.10 |
brlcad |
no, run
"benchmark" in some directory where it's okay to output a lot of
files |
| 21:41.34 |
brlcad |
or
"/usr/brlcad/bin/benchmark" if you haven't added /usr/brlcad/bin to
your path |
| 21:42.38 |
brlcad |
it'll take
about 10 minutes and evaluate your system's performance |
| 21:42.46 |
Axman6 |
seems to be
working well |
| 21:43.10 |
brlcad |
that's good,
part to be expected since it's not gui-driven |
| 21:43.23 |
brlcad |
next would be
to run mged -c |
| 21:47.37 |
Axman6 |
do you use
threading a lot for brl-cad? |
| 21:47.53 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (35 files in 10 dirs): more flawfinder
level 4 quellage, mostly str*() buffer boundary limits. |
| 21:49.10 |
Axman6 |
Total testing
time elapsed: 6 minutes, 30 seconds |
| 21:49.51 |
brlcad |
the
ray-tracer is extensively multithreaded and designed for parallel
computation |
| 21:50.00 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (fftc.c ifftc.c): don't use
bu_exit() so we can still avoid the libbu dependency |
| 21:50.00 |
Axman6 |
excellent |
| 21:50.09 |
brlcad |
will use
however many cpus you have available by default |
| 21:51.04 |
Axman6 |
well, mged -c
seems to run ok... |
| 21:52.26 |
Axman6 |
anything i
can do to test it a bit more? |
| 21:52.48 |
brlcad |
when mged
runs, run the "gui" command |
| 21:54.08 |
Axman6 |
X Error of
failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) \ Major
opcode of failed request: 70 (X_PolyFillRectangle) \ Serial number
of failed request: 1738 \ Current serial number in output stream:
1782 |
| 21:54.39 |
brlcad |
is X11
running? |
| 21:57.01 |
Axman6 |
it is, though
that doesn't matter in leopard. launchd launches it on
demand |
| 21:57.21 |
brlcad |
I know, just
checking |
| 21:58.10 |
brlcad |
that's
actually pretty stumping now |
| 21:58.24 |
Axman6 |
woah, running
without -c gives a pretty funky error |
| 21:58.32 |
brlcad |
http://www.nabble.com/X11-trouble-on-OSX-10.5-t4783777.html |
| 21:58.39 |
brlcad |
that's prety
much the same problem |
| 21:59.38 |
Axman6 |
The process
has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality
safely. You MUST exec(). |
| 21:59.41 |
Axman6 |
Break on
__THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__()
to debug. |
| 22:00.01 |
Axman6 |
about 30
times |
| 22:01.39 |
brlcad |
that one i've
heard about |
| 22:01.46 |
brlcad |
add the -f
option to mged |
| 22:02.13 |
brlcad |
looks like
Tcl still ended up using corefoundation even though you added
--disable-corefoundation |
| 22:02.18 |
Axman6 |
same X error
as before |
| 22:02.41 |
brlcad |
well, so good
news and bad news :) |
| 22:03.04 |
brlcad |
you do have
mged at your disposal but only in console mode |
| 22:03.18 |
Axman6 |
heh,
dang |
| 22:03.37 |
brlcad |
which is
fully functional, other than not showing you the gui |
| 22:04.06 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 22:04.27 |
Axman6 |
yeah i often
found it easier to use the cli for a lot of things than to use the
gui |
| 22:05.07 |
Axman6 |
but it's been
a long time, and i don't remember anything about how to use brl-cad
:\ |
| 22:07.59 |
brlcad |
the tutorials
on the website do work for console mode too, just have to use the
mged quick reference to know/call the command(s) that relate to gui
actions |
| 22:08.23 |
brlcad |
2/3rds the
tutorials are on the command console anyways |
| 22:08.43 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 22:08.56 |
brlcad |
I'm not sure
there's much more I can do without getting my hands on 10.5 so I
can interactively debug the X calls |
| 22:09.18 |
Axman6 |
i could work
on getting you ssh access to this machine if you like |
| 22:11.10 |
brlcad |
that'll help
get the default compile working, but the X issue might still
persist -- I'll give it a try, though |
| 22:12.47 |
Axman6 |
ok. would
tomorrow be better for you? give you a break, and time to think
maybe. i'll be going out kind of soon |
| 22:15.33 |
Axman6 |
actually,
that might give you a good chance to work on it. i could log the
guess account in, or create a temporary one (guest might not have
ssh access). and i'll add a .bash_profile that's the same as mine
so you have the same paths. might even e able to get you vnc access
so you can see if the gui's working properly |
| 22:20.25 |
brlcad |
I can tunnel
X over ssh to one of my systems to at least make sure that
works |
| 22:20.51 |
Axman6 |
oh yeah,
heh |
| 22:20.54 |
brlcad |
but yeah,
tomorrow would be better |
| 22:21.58 |
Axman6 |
well how
about i set up an account for you now, and you just try ssh'ing i,
and forwarding X. get those hopefully easy problems out of the
way |
| 22:22.13 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 22:22.39 |
Axman6 |
alright. any
particular account name? :P |
| 22:23.14 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/ (rtserver.c rtserverTest.c):
more finder quelling |
| 22:23.27 |
PrezKennedy |
Vista
infuriates me!! argh |
| 22:23.33 |
PrezKennedy |
its so bad id
almost try a mac |
| 22:23.39 |
PrezKennedy |
:) |
| 22:23.40 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
"sean" ? :) |
| 22:24.07 |
brlcad |
PrezKennedy:
you should |
| 22:24.14 |
Axman6 |
and password?
i'll assume PrezKennedy is on windows and doesn't have ssh, so
it'll be pretty safe :P |
| 22:24.41 |
brlcad |
Axman6: you
can pm me whatever you like |
| 22:25.00 |
brlcad |
this channel
is fully logged, i'm sure others could :) |
| 22:25.00 |
Axman6 |
PrezKennedy:
heh, well i'm an op in #macosx, so i'd definitely say you should.
;) |
| 22:25.41 |
Axman6 |
good
man |
| 22:37.20 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6_
(n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au) |
| 22:38.46 |
Axman6 |
ok, want to
give ssh a go brlcad? |
| 22:50.20 |
Axman6 |
ok, seems to
be working now rom here |
| 22:50.31 |
Axman6 |
from* |
| 22:52.03 |
brlcad |
ready |
| 22:52.56 |
Axman6 |
tried logging
in? |
| 22:53.39 |
Axman6 |
oh and i
guess i should copy over brlcad from my account ;) |
| 22:53.54 |
brlcad |
don't bother,
I'll get a fresh copy so I can check in changes |
| 22:54.07 |
brlcad |
i'm
in |
| 22:55.11 |
Axman6 |
heh, i'd
prefer you didn't, my net's slow, and has a download limit
:( |
| 22:55.18 |
brlcad |
downloading
sources now -- I'll give the compile a go tomorrow |
| 22:55.24 |
brlcad |
ahh,
ok |
| 22:55.32 |
Axman6 |
heh, nah it's
ok, download it |
| 22:55.39 |
brlcad |
you
sure? |
| 22:55.43 |
brlcad |
I can work
with whatever |
| 22:55.57 |
Axman6 |
you do it
your way ;) |
| 22:57.02 |
brlcad |
by the way,
what was your benchmark summary? |
| 22:57.07 |
brlcad |
the vgr
count |
| 22:57.16 |
Axman6 |
ok, you don't
need this account logged in locally any more right? since you won't
need vnc or anything to check if it's working |
| 22:57.22 |
Axman6 |
i think it
was 6772 |
| 22:57.28 |
Axman6 |
i'll go check
though |
| 22:57.46 |
brlcad |
cat summary
will tell you |
| 22:57.52 |
brlcad |
and there's a
log file |
| 22:58.36 |
Axman6 |
6776 |
| 22:59.23 |
brlcad |
and you
didn't compile optimized, so your system is probably somewhere
around 13000 |
| 22:59.46 |
brlcad |
not too bad..
about a quad core ? |
| 22:59.51 |
Axman6 |
i think i did
actually |
| 23:00.03 |
Axman6 |
dual core, so
that makse sense |
| 23:00.12 |
Axman6 |
yeah i used
--enable-optimized |
| 23:00.45 |
Axman6 |
2x2.4GHz, 2GB
RAM |
| 23:00.47 |
brlcad |
ah,
okay |
| 23:01.31 |
brlcad |
scales pretty
much linearly up to the oct-cores |
| 23:01.49 |
brlcad |
I see about
27000 there |
| 23:02.31 |
Axman6 |
very nice
:) |
| 23:03.23 |
Axman6 |
does 64-bit
give any speed benefits? |
| 23:03.59 |
Axman6 |
or just
greater RAM access |
| 23:05.02 |
Axman6 |
oh and you'l
probably need to use another prefix right? since you won't have
sudo access |
| 23:05.22 |
Axman6 |
i guess i
could give you rw access to /usr/brlcad |
| 23:06.48 |
brlcad |
64bit hardly
ever increases speed in any app -- just increases the size of the
models it'll grok successfully |
| 23:07.53 |
Axman6 |
yeah. from
the vids i saw rom WWDC 2006 i think only showed a speed increase
when they were working with a file > 4GB |
| 23:08.11 |
Axman6 |
the
improvment was pretty damn impressive though |
| 23:08.35 |
Axman6 |
something
like going from 90s to 13s |
| 23:09.23 |
brlcad |
that's
because the code ends up jumping through it's own hoops to go over
2GB/4GB |
| 23:09.43 |
brlcad |
most apps
will just fail, abort, or crash at the boundary |
| 23:10.29 |
brlcad |
the demo was
just a hat trick to show if you *did* have to deal with the limited
memory and still load big models, what it would be to be able to
not have to move stuff in and out of the address space |
| 23:11.46 |
Axman6 |
yeah, i
understand it was a fairly rare situation, unless you work with
things like genetics |
| 23:21.19 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: have
you checked X forwarding? |
| 23:26.33 |
Axman6 |
ok, i'm
heading out now. so i'll catch ya later. fi you decide to do
anytning today, good luck :) |
| 23:52.27 |
brlcad |
not yet, just
sorting out that base compilation problem is the first part of the
problem |
| 23:52.37 |
brlcad |
will look
into it later tonight and tomorrow |
| 23:59.54 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: i've
also given you rw access to /usr/brlcad |
| 00:09.53 |
*** join/#brlcad jhujhiti
(n=jhujhiti@64.252.100.253) |
| 00:10.36 |
jhujhiti |
../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined
reference to `XFreeDeviceList' on debian testing. i cannot, for the
life of me, figure out which package i'm missing |
| 00:14.51 |
jhujhiti |
with 7.10.4,
by the way |
| 00:35.03 |
``Erik |
um, it
probably didn't link libXi.so ? |
| 00:35.11 |
``Erik |
did you run
autoreconf or autogen or anything? |
| 00:36.22 |
jhujhiti |
ah ha!
libxi-dev wasn't installed. i'll try that |
| 00:36.39 |
``Erik |
those'd just
be headers... |
| 00:36.43 |
jhujhiti |
``Erik: i
didn't. i'm quite sure i just didn't install all of the -dev
packages and the configure script didn't pick up on it |
| 00:38.43 |
``Erik |
and now;
conrad twitty. |
| 00:39.34 |
jhujhiti |
haha |
| 00:40.18 |
``Erik |
anyways,
that's a lib error, not a header error, so having libXi.so should
be all you need... however; debian "fixes" libtool, which horribly
breaks any nontrivial use of dependancy libs, and libdm makes a
non-trivial use of the dependancy_libs variable in the libdm.la
file |
| 00:40.46 |
``Erik |
if you're
working with stuff striaght out of the tarball and didn't touch any
of the automake files, it SHOULD work |
| 00:41.01 |
``Erik |
if you have
libXi.so handy :) |
| 00:45.06 |
jhujhiti |
i have
/usr/lib/libXi.so{,.6,.6.0.0} |
| 00:45.51 |
jhujhiti |
it's running
its own libtool. |
| 00:46.01 |
``Erik |
in theory,
ldd /path/to/libdm.so SHOULD list one of those |
| 00:46.31 |
jhujhiti |
err, libdm
isn't building? |
| 00:46.57 |
jhujhiti |
whoops.
disregard that. |
| 00:47.55 |
jhujhiti |
it
doesn't. |
| 00:48.05 |
jhujhiti |
it doesn't
list *any* missing libraries. and no mention of libXi |
| 00:48.40 |
``Erik |
weird |
| 00:48.59 |
``Erik |
and in the
build directory, what's the dependancies line in src/libdm/libdm.la
look like? |
| 00:49.51 |
jhujhiti |
heh, probably
too long to paste, eh? |
| 00:49.56 |
jhujhiti |
although
there IS a newline in it |
| 00:50.06 |
jhujhiti |
dependency_libs=' -L/usr/local/lib
/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/librt/librt.la
-L/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/tcl/unix
/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libbn/libbn.la
/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/libregex/libregex.la
/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libsysv/libsysv.la
/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la
-lstdc++
/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libfb/libfb.la |
| 00:50.45 |
``Erik |
did it
truncate? the last thing I saw was libfb.la |
| 00:51.00 |
jhujhiti |
then i guess
the answer is yes. let me pastebin it |
| 00:51.07 |
``Erik |
there
*SHOULD* be an -lXi on it |
| 00:51.45 |
``Erik |
mine looks
like http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d22fad3d6
(on a mac) |
| 00:52.10 |
jhujhiti |
http://qna.nu/p18vc/?raw |
| 00:52.29 |
jhujhiti |
there's no Xi
in it |
| 00:53.23 |
``Erik |
odd |
| 00:53.36 |
jhujhiti |
let me blow
away the build directory and start from scratch.. |
| 00:54.18 |
``Erik |
so if you
grep ^X_LIBS Makefile |
| 00:54.21 |
``Erik |
there's no Xi
in that? |
| 00:54.26 |
``Erik |
X_LIBS =
-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi |
| 00:54.37 |
jhujhiti |
heh, too late
=) |
| 00:54.48 |
jhujhiti |
is there a
signature of the tarball somewhere? |
| 00:54.55 |
jhujhiti |
or an md5sum?
sourceforge never makes it easy |
| 00:55.51 |
``Erik |
I wonder if
you'd need to do something like sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libXi.so.6
/usr/lib/libXi.so ? |
| 00:56.00 |
``Erik |
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/distinfo?rev=1.15
has md5 and sha256 |
| 00:56.15 |
jhujhiti |
/usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0 |
| 00:56.15 |
jhujhiti |
/usr/lib/libXi.so |
| 00:56.16 |
jhujhiti |
/usr/lib/libXi.so.6 |
| 00:56.26 |
jhujhiti |
from
find |
| 00:56.54 |
``Erik |
um, does
libXi.so actually resolve to the libXi.so.6.0.0 file? |
| 00:57.04 |
jhujhiti |
how would i
check that? |
| 00:57.08 |
``Erik |
could be a
bad symlink, left over? *shrug* |
| 00:57.11 |
``Erik |
um, ls -l
it? |
| 00:57.12 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 00:57.24 |
``Erik |
or file, or
if you're feeling brave, cat it... er... I mean, run file on it
:D |
| 00:57.38 |
jhujhiti |
/usr/lib/libXi.so ->
libXi.so.6.0.0 |
| 00:57.49 |
``Erik |
weird |
| 00:58.04 |
jhujhiti |
configure
just finished. which makefile should i grep on? |
| 00:58.21 |
``Erik |
if 'grep
^X_LIBS Makefile' doesn't have -lXi in it, would you be able to
post your config.log somewhere? |
| 00:58.25 |
``Erik |
any of them
shoudl work |
| 00:58.35 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:58.38 |
jhujhiti |
X_LIBS =
-lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi |
| 00:59.31 |
jhujhiti |
err, should
the configure step be creating libdm.la? |
| 00:59.52 |
``Erik |
no, that's
during the compile |
| 01:00.05 |
``Erik |
what about
'grep ^DM_LIBS Makefile' ? |
| 01:00.08 |
jhujhiti |
all right.
well then.. is this thing make -j safe? |
| 01:00.18 |
``Erik |
i do it all
the time on 4 and 8 core machines, it SHOULD work fine |
| 01:00.36 |
jhujhiti |
i haven't
been using it because i wasn't sure. but it takes a bit before it
bails out. i'll try make again |
| 01:00.50 |
jhujhiti |
-lXi is at
the very end of that grep. |
| 01:00.53 |
``Erik |
ok |
| 01:00.55 |
``Erik |
um |
| 01:00.56 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:01.09 |
``Erik |
you can, uh,
go into src/libdm and do "make depends" |
| 01:01.21 |
``Erik |
to bypass a
fair bit of stuff ya don't need for libdm proper |
| 01:01.22 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 01:01.41 |
jhujhiti |
let's see if
a regular make bails first.. |
| 01:01.41 |
``Erik |
(provided I
did it right) |
| 01:01.45 |
``Erik |
aight |
| 01:02.25 |
jhujhiti |
do you know
off the top of your head what file i could look for to see if the
build is past that point? |
| 01:03.06 |
``Erik |
uhmmmmmm
well, if src/mged/mged exists, then libdm is linking ok |
| 01:05.17 |
jhujhiti |
neat, -j2 is
generating over 3.5 load usually it's just over 2 |
| 01:06.18 |
jhujhiti |
-rwxr-xr-x 1
jhujhiti 1000 9.0K 2007-12-02 20:06 src/mged/mged* |
| 01:06.29 |
jhujhiti |
*sigh* that
was the third try. what the hell? |
| 01:07.31 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:07.48 |
``Erik |
like
everything technological that doesn't work, it always works when
someone else is looking :D |
| 01:07.58 |
jhujhiti |
i did upgrade
from etch to testing between that second one, but i was getting the
same error as with stable |
| 01:08.05 |
jhujhiti |
heh,
indeed |
| 01:08.13 |
jhujhiti |
well, thanks
for the help ( i guess ) |
| 01:08.24 |
``Erik |
np, I guess
O.o :D |
| 01:08.38 |
jhujhiti |
looks like
all that heartache over moving away from stable was
unnecessary. |
| 01:08.48 |
jhujhiti |
but i'm not
installing debian again to go back. |
| 03:00.06 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 03:06.23 |
*** join/#brlcad iraytrace
(n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 03:12.30 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 05:53.28 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 06:32.35 |
Axman6 |
brlcad:
yt? |
| 07:09.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@77-56-93-5.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:12.26 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 07:23.25 |
PrezKennedy |
brlcad, have
you seen http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/IRSeeK-en? |
| 07:30.00 |
Axman6 |
i'm hoping
freenode find a way to ban them |
| 07:31.34 |
PrezKennedy |
i think they
stopped em for now |
| 07:31.34 |
Axman6 |
also, anyone
know a good tool for viewing or onverting .pix files on OS
X? |
| 07:33.46 |
PrezKennedy |
this is what
i posted on bram cohen's blog for his irseek "utility" |
| 07:34.03 |
PrezKennedy |
Hi, I'm here
to log every website you operate. Since they're available publicly
on the Internet, I'll be taking all of your content and making it
searchable from my own site. Also, I'll be slapping up ads and
trying to make a buck from it. If you don't like that you can
opt-out of course. |
| 07:34.33 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:35.00 |
PrezKennedy |
*eran
cohen... hmm getting too late to read |
| 07:38.49 |
yukonbob |
Axman6: you
have BRLCAD installed? |
| 07:39.05 |
yukonbob |
if so, see
pix-png(1) et al |
| 07:39.50 |
Defcon |
bw-png? |
| 07:48.57 |
Axman6 |
ah, thanks
:) |
| 08:06.51 |
Axman6 |
and.. how do
i raytrace to a .pix file? |
| 08:15.06 |
Axman6 |
ah got
it |
| 08:59.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 09:14.41 |
*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg
(n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:34.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: do not return a
pointer to a temporary variable, made variable static |
| 09:37.34 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: typing error in
preceding commit |
| 09:39.22 |
Axman6 |
so what is it
that makes brlcad's raytracer so fast anyway? |
| 09:42.03 |
Defcon |
some fine ass
C coding prolly |
| 09:58.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:07.03 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-150.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:50.36 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: argv not
ptr |
| 12:00.59 |
brlcad |
PrezKennedy:
yes, I have been following some of that |
| 12:01.25 |
brlcad |
they were
stopped, and then they stopped after the freenode ban |
| 12:06.41 |
Axman6 |
hey brlcad,
had a chance to mess around with my mbp yet? |
| 12:47.33 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 14:49.00 |
``Erik |
PrezKennedy:
shoulda told him he was infringing on your copyright by reproducing
your work without license or permission and told him that if he
doesn't remove it all immediately, you'd be contacting a lawyer...
:D |
| 14:50.20 |
``Erik |
Axman6:
BRL-CAD goes back to the days of pdp and vax, with computers
measured in kilohertz, not gigahertz... it *HAD* to be tight back
then, so even with the bloat through the ages, it's reasonably
tight :) |
| 14:51.03 |
Axman6 |
heh, yeah
:) |
| 14:52.08 |
Axman6 |
when i worked
at the charity computer place here, we found some bits that had
obviously been pulled off olllddd machines, little LED counter
displays, showing the CPU's speed in MHz... with only two
digits |
| 14:53.28 |
``Erik |
heh, I had a
few of those |
| 14:53.46 |
``Erik |
often set to
"HI" and "LO" |
| 14:54.08 |
``Erik |
man, the slew
of jumpers on the back of those things made configuring those a fun
exercise O.o |
| 14:54.22 |
Axman6 |
we found some
awesome stuff there like HDD's from seagate that were about
17x14x10cm, and 1GB |
| 14:54.34 |
``Erik |
with I still
had 'em :( now I'm buying straight line versions and having to
breadboard them |
| 14:54.42 |
Axman6 |
wtf's a
jumper? |
| 14:54.48 |
Axman6 |
i kis i kid,
don't worry ;) |
| 14:54.54 |
Axman6 |
kid
even |
| 14:54.55 |
``Erik |
those're
called "full height" |
| 14:55.05 |
``Erik |
the
winchesters you're used to seeing used to be called "half
height" |
| 14:55.17 |
Axman6 |
heh |
| 14:55.28 |
Axman6 |
i used the 7
platters from one to make an artwork |
| 14:55.53 |
``Erik |
m as in
megs |
| 14:56.40 |
``Erik |
<-- also
remembers drooling over the $3000 20m hdd's :( but at the time, a
3.5" floppy was "almost hard drive like" compared to the
5.25"s |
| 14:56.56 |
``Erik |
good old
commodores |
| 14:59.50 |
Defcon |
lolz |
| 14:59.50 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 14:59.53 |
Defcon |
good
times |
| 15:03.10 |
Z80-Boy |
I started on
a ZX Spectrum |
| 15:03.32 |
PrezKennedy |
``Erik,
that's SO cliche |
| 15:04.52 |
Defcon |
Z80-Boy : do
u still need http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text |
| 15:06.55 |
Axman6 |
our first
comp was a Mac Plus. i still have it, it's almost as old as me
:) |
| 15:08.07 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Daniel fixed a mged start-up
initialization bug on Windows where a local var was being returned
for the brlcad_data path. yuck. |
| 15:08.41 |
Z80-Boy |
Defcon:
no |
| 15:09.05 |
Defcon |
ok |
| 15:09.58 |
Axman6 |
ah ha! brlcad
is in my machine! |
| 15:10.13 |
Axman6 |
the fans just
revved up :P |
| 15:10.37 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 15:12.00 |
Axman6 |
didn't know
wtf was going on, saw perl running under your name |
| 15:14.32 |
brlcad |
you must be
on the other side of the planet from me, aussie perhaps |
| 15:14.36 |
brlcad |
pretty big
latency |
| 15:15.16 |
brlcad |
(not a
problem) |
| 15:17.10 |
Axman6 |
yeah,
australia indeed |
| 15:17.27 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 15:17.31 |
Axman6 |
and my
connection sucks balls. 256k down, 64k up :( |
| 15:17.41 |
brlcad |
that explains
why you keep going to sleep when I wake up |
| 15:17.42 |
brlcad |
:) |
| 15:17.49 |
brlcad |
that does
suck |
| 15:20.30 |
Axman6 |
hopefully
we'll be getting a lot faster these holidays |
| 15:21.48 |
Axman6 |
if you're
compiling stuff on here, using -j 2 speeds it up a lot |
| 15:22.29 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: back
in Prague I built myself an optical wireless Internet connection to
my balcony - I couldn't complain :) Not many people have optics
directly to their flat ;-) |
| 15:22.50 |
Axman6 |
heh |
| 15:23.26 |
Axman6 |
we can get
optics here, i can see the cab;e outside my window. yet they
defided our suburb didn't need it. wankers |
| 15:23.29 |
Z80-Boy |
Before that
my Internet connection really sucked - it was 0 down and 0
up |
| 15:23.43 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: the
same happened in our case with cable TV |
| 15:23.55 |
Axman6 |
lol |
| 15:23.58 |
Z80-Boy |
But I defined
I want it and since I developed my own FSO... |
| 15:24.12 |
Defcon |
FileSystemObject? |
| 15:24.12 |
Axman6 |
how'd you do
that anyway? |
| 15:24.23 |
Z80-Boy |
I just
pointed my finger to my friend's house and defined the data will go
there - and they did :) |
| 15:24.28 |
Z80-Boy |
Free Space
Optics |
| 15:24.32 |
Defcon |
ohw
:) |
| 15:24.45 |
Z80-Boy |
I went to my
balcony and said "Let there be light" and there was |
| 15:24.47 |
``Erik |
erm, but,
brlcad, we're int he same time zone, and you tend to be going to
sleep when I wake up... O.o :D |
| 15:25.19 |
Defcon |
lol |
| 15:25.41 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: we
even had a coaxial cable that went stright through our house
without a tap to another house over the street |
| 15:25.48 |
Z80-Boy |
The other
house had catv, we didn't |
| 15:26.03 |
Axman6 |
cheers |
| 15:26.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: since
then I think people should stop complaining and simple build their
internet connection themselves if they don't like the commercial
ones. |
| 15:27.10 |
Axman6 |
so what's the
other end of yours connect to |
| 15:27.11 |
Axman6 |
? |
| 15:27.15 |
Z80-Boy |
to a
friend |
| 15:27.20 |
Z80-Boy |
and he
connected to another friend |
| 15:27.27 |
Z80-Boy |
and that was
connected with another friend with a cable |
| 15:27.31 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:27.45 |
Z80-Boy |
and that one
was connected through a professional grade guaranteed microwave
link to fibre optics backbone |
| 15:28.06 |
Z80-Boy |
But since it
was profi it was symmetric and they cared about us. |
| 15:28.20 |
Z80-Boy |
So I had fast
both downloads and uploads |
| 15:28.37 |
Z80-Boy |
And it was
cheap. And it was already in time when broadband connection was
rare. |
| 15:28.40 |
``Erik |
a couple
states ago, I had a buddy that lived out in a community with no
high speed uplink, he was planning on getting a t1 and setting up a
repeated ethernet deal with his neighbors to cost share |
| 15:28.51 |
Axman6 |
bastard |
| 15:29.01 |
Axman6 |
i couldn't do
that gere though |
| 15:29.05 |
Axman6 |
here* |
| 15:29.16 |
``Erik |
highspeed
co-op... this was before adsl and cable modems started getting
traction |
| 15:29.27 |
Axman6 |
canberra's
just too spread out... and even the backbone ain't that fast here
:P |
| 15:29.41 |
Z80-Boy |
where in
australia is canberra? |
| 15:30.04 |
``Erik |
in the tiny
little strip with people, dur :D *duck* |
| 15:30.17 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/strsol.c: quell empty compilation
unit warning |
| 15:30.26 |
Z80-Boy |
which
coast? |
| 15:31.08 |
Axman6 |
east, inland
from sydney.. it happens to be the nation's capitol ;) |
| 15:32.24 |
``Erik |
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-35.281501,148.683472&spn=21.622459,54.777832&z=6 |
| 15:33.30 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it good
for surfing>? |
| 15:33.54 |
Axman6 |
yeah, if you
don't ind a 200KM drive ;) |
| 15:33.58 |
Z80-Boy |
omg |
| 15:33.59 |
Axman6 |
mind* |
| 15:34.16 |
Z80-Boy |
is it 200km
from the coast? |
| 15:34.27 |
Z80-Boy |
or on the
coast but 200km to the next usable surfing spot? |
| 15:34.30 |
``Erik |
but it's
australia, you can do that in what, an hour? a little less?
:D |
| 15:34.40 |
Z80-Boy |
or on the
cost but 200km are occupied by rowdy local surfers? |
| 15:34.43 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c if_tk.c
if_wgl.c): quell empty compilation unit warning |
| 15:34.50 |
Axman6 |
ah 200Km from
the coast |
| 15:35.02 |
Axman6 |
nah* damn
keyboard |
| 15:35.36 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: that
means you need to go >200 km/h |
| 15:35.51 |
``Erik |
uh huh? it's
australia! there's nothin' there, you can open it up :D
*duck* |
| 15:35.53 |
Axman6 |
``Erik: we
have sane speed limits, fastest in this part of Aus is 110Kph. the
NT used to have unlimited roads |
| 15:36.03 |
Z80-Boy |
what if you
hit a kangaroo, koala, wombat or elephant-sized spider in that
speed? |
| 15:36.11 |
Z80-Boy |
It could have
arepercussions for your vehicle |
| 15:36.21 |
Axman6 |
kangaroo's
does serious damage to cars man |
| 15:36.27 |
``Erik |
dur (and I
think kangaroos are the big ones, as bad as deer here in the
US) |
| 15:36.33 |
Axman6 |
like, you can
write off your car if you hit one |
| 15:36.37 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
thanks for the hint, though I'm pretty adept in parallel
compilation :) |
| 15:36.50 |
Axman6 |
lol, my bad
:P |
| 15:36.59 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
heh |
| 15:37.24 |
Axman6 |
yeah... if
you are going -j it, don't do it until i say it's ok, ok? don't
want to burn my lap ;) |
| 15:37.27 |
``Erik |
-j2 is a
waste of hw, we do at least -j8 on our workstations, axman
:) |
| 15:38.24 |
``Erik |
and brlcad
wrote a 'fast' target to do big parallel compiles to take advantage
of the 12 and 16 core boxen floating around |
| 15:39.39 |
Axman6 |
and 512
too? |
| 15:40.17 |
``Erik |
I haven't
dorked with compile speeds on machines with multiple cores sharing
a cache like the duos do, but back in the day of each core having
its own die and cache, you wanted more threads than cores... like
on a two processor Usparc (like a usparc2 or e450), I'd do
-j3 |
| 15:40.50 |
``Erik |
um, we have
I think 2048 core "machines", but recursive make means the most you
can parallelize is the number of compilation units in a given
directory |
| 15:41.09 |
Axman6 |
yeah, Apple
are pretty good at threading support i believe, so that might
improve things a little |
| 15:41.57 |
``Erik |
I d'no,
multithreading on g5 has serious kernel flaws for performance...
balancing instead of tuning affinity for cache coherence, and no
user knobs back in the day... the shared cache machines alleviate
that |
| 15:42.58 |
``Erik |
the mac pros
probably have some of that issue, since they have two l2 caches
(two 4-core dies) |
| 15:44.33 |
Axman6 |
yeah.. lost
me now |
| 15:45.27 |
brlcad |
the 'fast'
target also links in parallel unlike default all target, so it can
speed things up on a cluster or machines with wide I/O to
spare |
| 15:45.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54877079.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:46.04 |
brlcad |
Axman6: I
have compiled on a 512 processor box (single image SMP) before,
quite nice |
| 15:46.28 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: then
you use -j 1024 |
| 15:46.30 |
Z80-Boy |
? |
| 15:46.31 |
brlcad |
limited more
by the make architecture at that point, the per-directory linking
phases |
| 15:46.32 |
Axman6 |
heh
:) |
| 15:55.08 |
alex_joni |
http://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/books/rmch/
:) |
| 15:56.23 |
brlcad |
alex_joni:
yes, that's old old stuff (and mostly crap) |
| 15:56.46 |
alex_joni |
brlcad: yeah,
I know.. that's why I smiled |
| 15:57.02 |
alex_joni |
however, it
does seem to provide advantages sometimes to have a central
Makefile |
| 15:57.35 |
brlcad |
I've been
meaning to write a Nonrecursive Make Also Considered Harmful for a
couple years |
| 15:57.48 |
brlcad |
there are
advantages and disadvantages just like most things |
| 15:57.52 |
alex_joni |
yup |
| 15:59.01 |
brlcad |
about as
fruitful as trying to categorically declare centralized revision
control systems as bad (or good) |
| 16:00.07 |
brlcad |
you give up
quite a lot of features by going non-recursive, features that are a
pita to implement and maintain in a non-recursive make build
system |
| 16:01.00 |
brlcad |
i still end
up waiting more on gcc for the actual compiles and disk I/O than I
end up waiting on make |
| 16:01.49 |
brlcad |
configure and
the installation phase actually takes the longest on the faster
systems these days than the actual compilation |
| 16:02.12 |
Axman6 |
could
configure be made faster? |
| 16:02.23 |
brlcad |
mostly due to
I/O .. the disks just can't read/write the data fast
enough |
| 16:02.52 |
Axman6 |
probably not
then |
| 16:02.53 |
brlcad |
configure
could be streamlined to perform fewer tests, but it's biggest
problem is that it's non-trivial to parallelize |
| 16:03.12 |
brlcad |
and it is
massively i/o bound anyways so yeah, wouldn't gain a *whole*
lot |
| 16:03.23 |
alex_joni |
right..
configure is not a place for optimizing |
| 16:03.43 |
alex_joni |
(you only run
it seldom anyways.. <- from the devel point of view) |
| 16:04.14 |
alex_joni |
the biggest
issues I had with recursive make was depenencies from one subfolder
to another.. that caused some extra compiling |
| 16:04.18 |
Axman6 |
it's 50% of
the compile process for average users though ;) |
| 16:08.40 |
brlcad |
alex_joni:
most of the cases of "extra compiling" that I've heard of were
either incorrectly structured source files or actual valid (i.e.
necessary) recompilation |
| 16:09.41 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
what's 50%? the configure phase? |
| 16:10.09 |
Axman6 |
well, not
time wise. but can be pretty major art times |
| 16:12.05 |
brlcad |
on an old 12
proc altix, it takes about 1 minute to run configure, 2 minutes to
compile everything, and 4 minutes to install |
| 16:14.20 |
alex_joni |
brlcad: I
guess it was a combo CVS + incorrectly structured files..
:) |
| 16:14.42 |
alex_joni |
(I only said
CVS because you know what pain it is to move files
around..) |
| 16:14.48 |
brlcad |
on MBP it's
about 1 min configure, 9 min to compile (on 2-core), and about 4
min to install ;) |
| 16:17.21 |
Axman6 |
that's while
playing james bond ;) |
| 16:18.21 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r355 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/Makefile.am
inc/botlib.h src/Makefile.am): add build files to compile the new
noinst botlib |
| 16:18.47 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r356 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/Makefile.am: ws |
| 16:19.22 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r357 10/trunk/libirc/NEWS: itemize news for a 0.2
release |
| 16:19.40 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r358 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: have to traverse
botlib before src |
| 16:20.00 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r359 10/trunk/libirc/src/Makefile.am: link in
botlib |
| 16:20.15 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r360 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: generate the
makefiles for botlib |
| 16:21.30 |
``Erik |
or mebbe
tclscripts, since there's nothing to do in 'all', just
'install' |
| 16:22.23 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: any
of those Leopard fixes by any chance?? |
| 16:22.38 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
nope |
| 16:22.48 |
brlcad |
my compile
actually worked out of the box on the first try :) |
| 16:22.51 |
brlcad |
(on your
machine) |
| 16:22.54 |
Axman6 |
heh, oh
well |
| 16:23.00 |
Axman6 |
that is odd
: |
| 16:23.03 |
brlcad |
but has the
cg_png bug on install |
| 16:23.03 |
Axman6 |
:| |
| 16:23.17 |
brlcad |
you ran
distclean at some point |
| 16:23.35 |
brlcad |
so you blew
away the already-generated tclIndex files .. so when it went to
regenerate them, it failed |
| 16:23.50 |
brlcad |
that problem
still exists but since I've no need to distclean, the build
completely succeeds |
| 16:23.58 |
brlcad |
just fails
after it's installed |
| 16:24.01 |
Axman6 |
since i
copied my .bash_profile over for you so you had the same PATH etc.
i did |
| 16:24.17 |
brlcad |
it's not
anything path-related |
| 16:24.22 |
Axman6 |
rightp |
| 16:24.27 |
Axman6 |
o* |
| 16:25.01 |
Axman6 |
yeah i didn't
think it would be, but lis are found usinf PATH in a way right?
maybe i'm making that up... |
| 16:26.08 |
Axman6 |
libs*
beh |
| 16:26.18 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 16:26.59 |
brlcad |
they're find
by traversing a set of system-default dyld search paths, and can be
overridden with various compilation/linker flags and environment
variables |
| 16:27.01 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r361 10/trunk/libirc/ (31 files in 11 dirs): credit
where credit is due, assign copyright to the Jeff guy that actually
wrote most of it all |
| 16:27.11 |
brlcad |
DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH for example |
| 16:28.34 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 16:29.03 |
``Erik |
neato,
symbolics was the first to register a .com domain name (they made
lithp machineth) |
| 16:29.20 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r362 10/trunk/libirc/AUTHORS: yet he is not
me |
| 16:29.30 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r363 10/trunk/libirc/autogen.sh: and he didn't write
this |
| 16:30.08 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r364 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: this is libIRC
project.. not 'that other project' |
| 16:36.15 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r365 10/trunk/libirc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): accept
pelya's sf patch [ 1843257 ] "MSVC 6 project files" --
thanks\! |
| 16:39.19 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r366 10/trunk/libirc/AUTHORS: thank pelya for the vc6
build system addition |
| 16:41.10 |
CIA-28 |
libirc:
03brlcad * r367 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: add vc6 to the source
dist |
| 16:47.03 |
brlcad |
well now
that's really interesting |
| 16:47.17 |
brlcad |
once
installed, our compiled-in rpaths do seem to kick in and take
over |
| 16:47.28 |
brlcad |
no dyld
issues |
| 16:47.33 |
brlcad |
Axman6: try
running mged -f |
| 16:48.06 |
Axman6 |
X Error of
failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter
attributes) |
| 16:48.09 |
brlcad |
do you get
the X error, the cg err, or no err |
| 16:48.11 |
brlcad |
okay |
| 16:48.12 |
Axman6 |
etc. |
| 16:48.15 |
brlcad |
well that's
good |
| 16:49.11 |
brlcad |
that means a
base install will actually work just fine compilation-wise, so long
as you don't distclean |
| 16:54.04 |
brlcad |
hm, I do get
the X11 bug even remotely (talking to your X11 server) |
| 16:54.28 |
brlcad |
initial
thoughts look like this might be an Xorg bug |
| 16:58.37 |
Axman6 |
very very
possible |
| 16:58.57 |
Z80-Boy |
X11 is one
big bug |
| 16:59.00 |
Axman6 |
Apple seem to
have broken X pretty badly with the move to Xorg |
| 16:59.03 |
Axman6 |
agreed |
| 16:59.50 |
Z80-Boy |
I compile
Xorg 6.9 on Linux From Scratch and it works fine except every time
I shut it down, it prints a white rectangle in the place of cursor,
a dark strip in the bottom and the screen freezes. |
| 16:59.55 |
Z80-Boy |
I have to
reboot the computer then. |
| 17:00.32 |
Axman6 |
haha |
| 17:00.53 |
brlcad |
Axman6: try
this: XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 mged -f |
| 17:01.09 |
Axman6 |
i'm so glad
Apple didn't go with X and went their own way. get a great UNIX
system, without the X crap |
| 17:01.28 |
Axman6 |
same
error |
| 17:10.08 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:27.10 |
brlcad |
huh, one of
the suggestions I ran into was to roll back to Tiger's X11, which
apparently works |
| 17:27.26 |
brlcad |
so maybe just
a matter of time, waiting for the fix |
| 17:27.45 |
brlcad |
still looking
for details as to what exactly is *causing* the problem to see if
it can be avoided |
| 17:31.12 |
Axman6 |
i think i'm
going to cry, just watched james bond's latest Aston get written
off |
| 17:33.57 |
brlcad |
where he
flipped it a few dozen times? |
| 17:34.20 |
brlcad |
to avoid the
girl they tossed into the road |
| 17:34.22 |
alex_joni |
brlcad: ever
looked at u3d ? |
| 17:35.11 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 17:35.13 |
``Erik |
like http://my2iu.blogspot.com/2005/04/u3d-is-half-baked.html
? :) |
| 17:35.16 |
brlcad |
alex_joni:
the geometry format standard from intel? |
| 17:35.26 |
alex_joni |
yeah, that
one |
| 17:35.27 |
brlcad |
http://www.intel.com/technology/systems/u3d/ |
| 17:35.32 |
brlcad |
no, never
heard of it :P |
| 17:35.39 |
alex_joni |
lol @
brlcad |
| 17:36.02 |
alex_joni |
I'm
specifically looking at it because it *should* be easy to integrade
U3D objects into pdf's |
| 17:36.54 |
``Erik |
depends on
whos pdf library you use, I'd imagine |
| 17:37.32 |
alex_joni |
I think
people succeeded with libharu (if I recall the name
correctly) |
| 17:38.01 |
alex_joni |
``Erik: but
it seems Adobe integrated U3D into pdf's version 7 or
later |
| 17:38.15 |
``Erik |
yeah, if you
happen to use adobes pdf libraries... :D |
| 17:39.22 |
alex_joni |
well.. umm ..
yeah |
| 17:39.40 |
Axman6 |
:P |
| 17:39.59 |
``Erik |
good idea,
axman, start codin' that up :D |
| 17:40.08 |
brlcad |
ahh, now I
see why Apple made the s/X11R6/X11/ move |
| 17:40.15 |
brlcad |
looks like
Xorg is pushing out an R7 finally |
| 17:40.30 |
Axman6 |
i thought it
was R7 |
| 17:40.40 |
Axman6 |
not that they
eans much to me |
| 17:40.48 |
Axman6 |
that means*
wow |
| 17:41.01 |
brlcad |
I think I new
that, but forgot |
| 17:41.26 |
brlcad |
and knew it
too |
| 17:42.17 |
``Erik |
fbsd has been
using xorg 7.3 for a bit |
| 17:42.19 |
brlcad |
ah, R7.3 just
in september |
| 17:42.27 |
brlcad |
.2 in
feb |
| 17:42.45 |
``Erik |
ah, those
silly beta using fools |
| 17:43.41 |
``Erik |
rug |
| 17:44.02 |
brlcad |
speaking of
which.. beta3 |
| 17:44.11 |
``Erik |
saw it a few
days ago |
| 17:44.24 |
``Erik |
if they're
cycling betas that fast, I'm hoping they're getting close to a
release O.o |
| 17:44.39 |
brlcad |
"8.5 is
nearing the end of feature development." |
| 17:45.16 |
brlcad |
they're
concept of a beta isn't apparently "fix things" but last minute
additions |
| 17:45.24 |
``Erik |
odd |
| 17:45.39 |
``Erik |
wonder what
'alpha' means to them |
| 17:45.50 |
brlcad |
just getting
started ;) |
| 17:46.11 |
``Erik |
some camps
call that pre-alpha O.o :D |
| 17:46.35 |
curious |
them
slackers |
| 17:46.39 |
brlcad |
that just
might fix/hide this 10.5 startup bug |
| 17:47.25 |
Axman6 |
calling it a
beta? :P |
| 17:47.27 |
brlcad |
from what
I've seen, the bug seems to be provoked by ati driver and the new
freetype code (as it pertains to tcl/tk) along with a couple Xorg
bugs |
| 17:48.06 |
brlcad |
howdy
yukonbob |
| 17:49.07 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: silly coder, snprintf
needs a length, too |
| 17:49.09 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: well
wouldn't be an ATI problem here |
| 17:49.18 |
Axman6 |
oww
:( |
| 17:49.24 |
Axman6 |
74C |
| 17:49.33 |
``Erik |
uhmmmm,
uhhhh |
| 17:49.46 |
``Erik |
get, uh,
CoreDuoTemp and smcSomething, uhhhh |
| 17:50.05 |
yukonbob |
Axman6: good
-- I'm ready for breakfast -- two eggs, basted + brown toast,
please. |
| 17:50.22 |
Axman6 |
82C |
| 17:50.30 |
Axman6 |
not even 100%
cpu either |
| 17:50.32 |
``Erik |
there're some
nifty utilities for controlling the fan speed envelopes |
| 17:50.41 |
``Erik |
smcFanControl |
| 17:50.57 |
Axman6 |
yeah i have
SMCFanController... it'a what's telling me the temp :P |
| 17:51.09 |
Axman6 |
86C |
| 17:51.17 |
*** part/#brlcad jhujhiti
(n=jhujhiti@64.252.100.253) |
| 17:51.19 |
Axman6 |
fan's haven't
kicked in yet |
| 17:51.23 |
``Erik |
if you push
up the low and tweak the envelope, you can keep the temp a lot
lower |
| 17:51.24 |
Axman6 |
87 |
| 17:51.36 |
Axman6 |
there we
go |
| 17:51.59 |
brlcad |
Axman6: yep,
'cause of that I/O limit |
| 17:52.09 |
``Erik |
I mostly did
it because I was getting annoyed at the fans going on and off a
lot, so I pushed the low up to like 2000 or 2500 rpm (not very
audible) and they greatly reduced the fan cycling |
| 17:52.17 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: double oops, snprintf
doesn't need %s size limits |
| 17:52.20 |
brlcad |
it really
wouldn't go must faster if you have 20 cpus or a cpu that was 10x
faster |
| 17:52.20 |
Axman6 |
brlcad:
make? |
| 17:52.24 |
brlcad |
s/must/much/ |
| 17:52.32 |
brlcad |
no, the
autogen.sh and configure steps |
| 17:53.00 |
``Erik |
the %Ns limit
doesn't hurt nothin', but pushing the format string as the limit
does... :D |
| 17:53.04 |
Axman6 |
ok. yeah
because make cn easily use 100% on moth cores |
| 17:53.33 |
brlcad |
``Erik: i
know, it was just pointless |
| 17:54.18 |
brlcad |
would have
mattered had buffer had more than 32 chars space, but not at
same |
| 17:59.24 |
Axman6 |
bah, there is
no way bond would use a sony vaio! |
| 18:03.44 |
brlcad |
I was right,
it is related to the freetype2 X11 processing code in
Tk |
| 18:03.50 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
should be working now |
| 18:04.44 |
Axman6 |
mged
-f? |
| 18:05.13 |
Axman6 |
same error
still |
| 18:05.56 |
Axman6 |
hang
on |
| 18:07.07 |
Axman6 |
how oddwell,
no error, but i don't get the mged prompt |
| 18:07.40 |
Axman6 |
so i can't
seem to actually do anything with it :\ |
| 18:20.07 |
Axman6 |
and mged -f
gives the same error again |
| 18:25.52 |
Axman6 |
8ok, sleep
time. g'night all. brlcad if you have anything you need me to test,
or news, just hilight me and i'l get it in the morning |
| 18:29.54 |
``Erik |
heh, cvs -z3
commit -m 'terrible crimes against humanity' |
| 18:29.56 |
``Erik |
*cough*
O.o |
| 18:31.31 |
brlcad |
hm, Axman6
yours answers were rather confusing to me :) |
| 18:31.46 |
brlcad |
Axman6: did
no windows pop up when you ran mged -f? |
| 18:43.39 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
because it works here.. I successfully ran the mged installed in
/usr/brlcad/bin/mged and actually have it displaying all the way
from the continent you're on to mine over X, and seems to be
working just fine |
| 18:44.49 |
brlcad |
at least..
where working is a 5 min startup delay and each mouse click takes
about 1 minute to respond :) |
| 18:48.37 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: disable the new freetype font
system in Tk 8.5 for now until they're final -- this should
'fix'/avoid a bug reported by dwayne regarding the mged font
manager not working right in 7.10.4 |
| 21:47.19 |
*** join/#brlcad shprotius
(n=shprotiu@c-76-106-99-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:55.54 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/proe-g.c: be more consistent on the
buffer lengths and limits (needs testing on the name generation)
using MAX_LINE_LENGTH for the names too |
| 21:58.18 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
scan.coverity still pending? |
| 22:08.03 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c: move the
format string to the (single) use |
| 22:25.13 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (6 files): build
execution paths for both single and double precision floats in the
same lib |
| 22:25.26 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
yep |
| 22:28.00 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: don't need the
HAVE_STDARG_H checks any more, keep it simple |
| 22:28.22 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbfade.c: const
labelification |
| 22:28.50 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cell-fb.c: make sure we don't go too far
on the buffer |
| 22:30.45 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: const lables |
| 22:31.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h): make
triangle degeneracy testing a runtime selectable
feature |
| 22:31.03 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
:P |
| 22:43.00 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613911.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:57.48 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:58.20 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/7.11.0.png
<--- finally |
| 22:58.40 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (17 files in 8 dirs): c89 simplification.
assume stdarg is a given. |
| 23:01.00 |
IriX64 |
that
makefile.am thing is one thing, -lXft in X_libs is needed in
bwish,mged,and rttherm |
| 23:01.37 |
louipc |
IriX64:
what's in the image? |
| 23:01.45 |
IriX64 |
ktank
:) |
| 23:01.55 |
louipc |
oh |
| 23:02.14 |
IriX64 |
you said you
were tired of helicopters ;) |
| 23:02.21 |
louipc |
hahha |
| 23:02.50 |
louipc |
IriX64: have
you tried playing with any linux/bsd yet? |
| 23:03.10 |
IriX64 |
not yet,
waiting for Christmas |
| 23:03.17 |
louipc |
ah |
| 23:03.42 |
louipc |
you know, I
think I'd rather just use one of those in a VM rather than cygwin
heh |
| 23:03.56 |
IriX64 |
vm costs
money :) |
| 23:04.34 |
IriX64 |
altho,like
all else once spent it's spent :) |
| 23:04.57 |
louipc |
http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads |
| 23:05.10 |
louipc |
that one is
free |
| 23:06.19 |
IriX64 |
downloading
it thanks man |
| 23:06.36 |
alex_joni |
there is also
a free one from VMware |
| 23:06.45 |
louipc |
yeah I
thought so too |
| 23:06.46 |
alex_joni |
VMware
server, if my memory still serves me |
| 23:06.57 |
IriX64 |
checked
vmware,didn't see the free one |
| 23:07.10 |
louipc |
haha it's on
the front page |
| 23:07.11 |
alex_joni |
IriX64: what
platform? |
| 23:07.16 |
louipc |
http://www.vmware.com/ |
| 23:07.17 |
alex_joni |
(for the
host..) |
| 23:07.21 |
IriX64 |
amd64 |
| 23:08.10 |
IriX64 |
vista64
actually |
| 23:08.18 |
alex_joni |
http://register.vmware.com/content/download103.html |
| 23:08.21 |
louipc |
oh you have
to register though |
| 23:08.41 |
louipc |
hey you
bypassed it? |
| 23:08.57 |
IriX64 |
i registered
the evaluation workstation copy |
| 23:09.08 |
alex_joni |
louipc: no,
you still have to register after the download |
| 23:09.14 |
louipc |
ah |
| 23:09.26 |
alex_joni |
s/after/during/before/ |
| 23:09.37 |
alex_joni |
whatever
suits you :) |
| 23:09.51 |
IriX64 |
heh whatever
suit fits :) |
| 23:10.14 |
alex_joni |
well.. so far
I didn't either.. but lately I got 2-3 examples that really worked
as advertised |
| 23:10.35 |
alex_joni |
vmware was
one of them |
| 23:11.30 |
louipc |
you eat your
visitors? |
| 23:13.25 |
alex_joni |
louipc: if
they're foolish enough to come without food |
| 23:13.49 |
louipc |
aha! |
| 23:20.04 |
louipc |
qemu
does |
| 23:22.51 |
louipc |
oh yeah bochs
too |
| 00:44.41 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cell-fb.c: strNcat |
| 00:57.15 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: too many lines |
| 01:12.07 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 01:32.42 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: don't need the non __STDC__ decls
any longer, include bu.h in order to declare the stdarg compiler
hint |
| 01:36.55 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 4 dirs): remove the last traces of
stdarg/vararg testing. c89 conformance provides the stdarg
interface. |
| 04:10.56 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 05:50.31 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-28
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 07:28.39 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 07:30.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6_
(n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au) |
| 07:51.33 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 07:59.23 |
*** join/#brlcad DEFCON_
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:22.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 08:22.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:11.46 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 11:32.15 |
*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos___
(n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 11:52.54 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-28 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 11:58.29 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.112.8) |
| 12:07.49 |
Axman6 |
"Implement or
integrate a RenderMan-compliant interface (e.g. Pixie) to BRL-CAD's
ray-trace library" looking to have Toy Story 6 rendered entirely
using BRL-CAD eh brlcad? :P |
| 12:43.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487440C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:08.41 |
brlcad |
Axman6: heh,
not exactly |
| 13:08.48 |
brlcad |
but would be
interesting :) |
| 13:08.52 |
Axman6 |
aww
:P |
| 13:08.53 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: update to the details on the C++age
since there is some now |
| 13:09.10 |
Axman6 |
yeah, i'd be
interested to see how it would stack up to what Pixar
uses |
| 13:12.49 |
Axman6 |
also, if you
want to do more Leopard work, the MBP's all yours for the next 8 or
so hours |
| 14:11.20 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 14:13.33 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
thanks, though I think I've done what I can |
| 14:14.13 |
brlcad |
did you get
my message earlier -- what does it do/report if you run
"/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f" now? |
| 14:14.20 |
Axman6 |
ok, well if
you have any bright ideas, t's all yours |
| 14:14.46 |
Axman6 |
same X
error |
| 14:20.11 |
Axman6 |
just tried in
the guest account, same thing |
| 14:20.27 |
Axman6 |
and seep time
for me. G'night all |
| 14:41.37 |
*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 14:56.36 |
Maloeran |
Eh well, Mark
is meeting Disney Studios on the December 17th to talk about
raytracing stuff, rayforce and renderman probably |
| 14:57.10 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 15:00.13 |
DEFCON_ |
very nice
:) |
| 15:01.08 |
DEFCON_ |
btw: hi
Maloeran |
| 15:01.17 |
DEFCON_ |
tnx for
Ectroverse again :) |
| 15:04.41 |
Maloeran |
Oh hrm, have
you been playing? That was such a long time ago :) |
| 15:07.12 |
Maloeran |
A rather
stressing and annoying experience overall, it sure taught me to
stick to writing code rather than manage some kind of community,
and never again to write code "for fun, as it goes" without any
kind of planning whatsoever |
| 15:10.37 |
DEFCON_ |
haha |
| 15:10.45 |
DEFCON_ |
yeah i know
what u mean actually |
| 15:11.04 |
DEFCON_ |
but the game
is still alive after 5(?) years |
| 15:11.25 |
Maloeran |
So I heard. I
haven't had the heart to check it out |
| 15:11.33 |
DEFCON_ |
it would be
nice if u dropped by |
| 15:11.40 |
DEFCON_ |
www.ectroverse.com |
| 15:12.01 |
Maloeran |
Are you
involved somehow or in touch with these people? |
| 15:12.08 |
DEFCON_ |
just make a
quick "hi" post in the forums |
| 15:12.19 |
DEFCON_ |
"these ppl"
as in brlcad or ev? |
| 15:12.31 |
Maloeran |
:) I mean
Ev |
| 15:12.36 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:12.40 |
DEFCON_ |
yes, yes i
am |
| 15:13.24 |
Maloeran |
Eh nice. Are
you somehow involved in BRL-CAD as well? |
| 15:13.40 |
DEFCON_ |
not involved
no |
| 15:13.50 |
DEFCON_ |
but i follow
the app |
| 15:13.56 |
DEFCON_ |
i like the
results of it |
| 15:14.20 |
Maloeran |
I sure
remember a DEFCON on IRC from the EV days, but I must admit it's a
bit vague, the memories are slowly coming back |
| 15:14.33 |
DEFCON_ |
yeah it was
me |
| 15:14.33 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:14.49 |
DEFCON_ |
do you
remember berlijnse_bol aka daydreamer? |
| 15:14.57 |
Maloeran |
Oh sure, of
course |
| 15:15.10 |
DEFCON_ |
he is a
friend of me irl |
| 15:15.20 |
DEFCON_ |
he introduced
me to ev |
| 15:15.34 |
DEFCON_ |
we(you and
me) actually talked alot about ev |
| 15:15.41 |
DEFCON_ |
and
programming in general |
| 15:16.13 |
DEFCON_ |
i remember
that you were playing around/learning the openGL and
stuff |
| 15:16.14 |
Maloeran |
Yes, I
remember. I'm sorry it took me a while for the memories to
resurface |
| 15:16.30 |
DEFCON_ |
i can imagin
:) |
| 15:16.46 |
Maloeran |
I think the
mind may have pushed these memories far back, it was not always
overly pleasant |
| 15:16.46 |
DEFCON_ |
you were
creating landscapes and stuff |
| 15:16.56 |
DEFCON_ |
why
not? |
| 15:17.28 |
DEFCON_ |
my
involvement in brl-cad : http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text |
| 15:17.32 |
Maloeran |
Mostly, it
was the "duty" of having to do some constant work on a piece of
software that I wrote as a quick experiment and it grew out of
hands |
| 15:17.42 |
DEFCON_ |
haha |
| 15:17.47 |
Maloeran |
The code
design sure was horrible, no planning whatsoever, just experiements
pilling up |
| 15:17.54 |
Maloeran |
experiments*
too |
| 15:18.03 |
DEFCON_ |
i thought u
wanted to create a better imperial conflict |
| 15:18.04 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:18.34 |
Maloeran |
Yes yes... :)
Originally, it still was just an experiment, something quickly put
together an afternoon |
| 15:18.50 |
DEFCON_ |
haha |
| 15:18.51 |
DEFCON_ |
rly |
| 15:18.52 |
Maloeran |
Then people
started registering, discussing it, asking for features, and you
can guess the rest |
| 15:18.58 |
DEFCON_ |
indeed |
| 15:18.58 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:19.05 |
DEFCON_ |
still, it
works great |
| 15:19.18 |
DEFCON_ |
and ppl still
play it after 5 years |
| 15:20.01 |
Maloeran |
It's rather
nice to see that actually. Would you happen to know if anyone ever
redesigned... hum, the whole code? :) |
| 15:21.02 |
DEFCON_ |
i know that
yes |
| 15:21.07 |
DEFCON_ |
no it didn't
happen |
| 15:21.18 |
DEFCON_ |
we are still
using your code |
| 15:21.35 |
DEFCON_ |
but over the
years our "Maincoder" has made several changes |
| 15:21.44 |
DEFCON_ |
*little
changes |
| 15:21.57 |
Maloeran |
Should I
guess that you are that person? |
| 15:22.15 |
DEFCON_ |
wrong |
| 15:22.25 |
DEFCON_ |
i wish i knew
C that good |
| 15:22.31 |
DEFCON_ |
but i'm still
a vb.net person |
| 15:22.43 |
Maloeran |
Tsk :), all
right |
| 15:22.56 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:24.04 |
Maloeran |
I don't think
I want to drop by and say "Hi", I'm a bit ashamed of how I burned
out and disappeared |
| 15:25.29 |
DEFCON_ |
aargh |
| 15:25.37 |
DEFCON_ |
that REALLY
doesn't matter |
| 15:25.50 |
DEFCON_ |
ppl there
would love to hear something from you |
| 15:26.05 |
DEFCON_ |
they still
refer to you as their god :) |
| 15:26.43 |
Maloeran |
Yes, a friend
googled my name some time ago and told me of that... *shivers*
:) |
| 15:27.00 |
DEFCON_ |
haha
:) |
| 15:28.19 |
Maloeran |
So how has
life been for you and Daydreamer since these days? |
| 15:28.58 |
DEFCON_ |
i finished
college(in belgium) and now i work as a developper |
| 15:29.06 |
DEFCON_ |
daydreamer is
now a history teacher |
| 15:29.09 |
Maloeran |
I chatted
with DD briefly many months ago, I kept in touch with spooky3do for
a long time |
| 15:29.17 |
Maloeran |
Very
nice |
| 15:29.29 |
DEFCON_ |
but i didn't
see him for a long long time |
| 15:29.44 |
DEFCON_ |
spooky3do
yeah i remember him |
| 15:29.45 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:30.47 |
Maloeran |
He used to
come on Efnet where we chatted frequently ( not so much of the old
EV days ), until last month. I don't suppose you know where to
catch him? |
| 15:31.42 |
DEFCON_ |
we tracked
you down, didn't we |
| 15:31.55 |
DEFCON_ |
so i guess
one could track him down 2 :) |
| 15:32.17 |
DEFCON_ |
but no, i
don't know where to find him immediately |
| 15:32.30 |
Maloeran |
:) All right,
I was just wondering |
| 15:33.27 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:37.01 |
DEFCON_ |
is he
german? |
| 15:38.02 |
Maloeran |
Yes he
is |
| 15:38.43 |
DEFCON_ |
http://ic-wiki.com/index.php?title=IC_Map_Generator |
| 15:39.46 |
Maloeran |
Eh, IC was
kind of hard to play without that kind of tool, I assume they fixed
that since then |
| 15:39.56 |
DEFCON_ |
when i google
"spooky3do" i only find old logs of him playing games are making
tools |
| 15:40.00 |
DEFCON_ |
no
Maloeran |
| 15:40.05 |
DEFCON_ |
it's still
the same map |
| 15:40.14 |
DEFCON_ |
no generator,
no .. |
| 15:40.21 |
DEFCON_ |
still very
hard to play |
| 15:40.21 |
DEFCON_ |
:( |
| 15:40.22 |
Maloeran |
Ouch, what a
shame |
| 15:40.27 |
DEFCON_ |
true |
| 15:40.58 |
Maloeran |
Writing an
online game was so amazingly easy, that part was rather
interesting |
| 15:41.08 |
Maloeran |
In comparison
to dealing with computational fluid dynamics anyway |
| 15:42.18 |
DEFCON_ |
haha |
| 15:42.20 |
DEFCON_ |
indeed |
| 15:43.00 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:43.03 |
``Erik |
morning, mal
:) |
| 15:43.07 |
DEFCON_ |
brlcad,
rayforce is way to advanced for me |
| 15:43.12 |
Maloeran |
Hey
Erik |
| 15:43.12 |
DEFCON_ |
,...
btw |
| 15:43.51 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:43.57 |
Maloeran |
:) I think
Mark want to try selling something to Disney first |
| 15:44.05 |
Maloeran |
He's meeting
them on December 17th |
| 15:44.13 |
``Erik |
of course, he
wants closed source and money in his pocket |
| 15:44.37 |
``Erik |
and if you
get some of that $'s, too, that'd be gnarly |
| 15:44.57 |
Maloeran |
Well, I
suppose I will, I hold the copyright and control the
patents... |
| 15:45.05 |
DEFCON_ |
haha smart
:) |
| 15:46.11 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:46.20 |
``Erik |
hahaha |
| 15:46.23 |
DEFCON_ |
haha |
| 15:46.38 |
``Erik |
just think, I
could be ponying up $'s for a fancy opengl ectoverse instead of
paying evil blizzard/vivendi for wow! |
| 15:46.47 |
DEFCON_ |
he could have
made some money off of ev yes |
| 15:47.08 |
DEFCON_ |
ev is web
based |
| 15:47.11 |
DEFCON_ |
no
opengl |
| 15:47.17 |
``Erik |
in its
current invocation, yes |
| 15:47.19 |
DEFCON_ |
but hell,
that would be soo cool |
| 15:47.27 |
Maloeran |
There was an
opengl client at some point, to explore the map |
| 15:47.32 |
DEFCON_ |
yes |
| 15:47.37 |
DEFCON_ |
it still
exists |
| 15:47.40 |
``Erik |
but even web
based, if you wan to go to the darkside, um |
| 15:47.42 |
DEFCON_ |
i still use
it |
| 15:47.45 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:47.48 |
``Erik |
krissa was
doing webstart opengl apps for a bit |
| 15:48.21 |
Maloeran |
Writing web
stuff these days would be terribly annoying, with all this Flash or
whatever else, which changes every 6 months |
| 15:48.29 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:48.30 |
Maloeran |
Ectroverse
used HTML 3.1 pages |
| 15:48.41 |
DEFCON_ |
indeed
:) |
| 15:48.41 |
``Erik |
I've been
learning this "ajax" stuff |
| 15:48.56 |
DEFCON_ |
ajax with
perl? |
| 15:48.58 |
``Erik |
disgustingly
simple, but the interface impact makes me wonder |
| 15:49.06 |
DEFCON_ |
indeed |
| 15:49.08 |
DEFCON_ |
simple |
| 15:49.09 |
``Erik |
no, php on
the back end, planning on moving to a lithp DSO or
something |
| 15:49.11 |
DEFCON_ |
ah |
| 15:49.22 |
Maloeran |
As for OpenGL
based software, people tend to have high expectations regarding 3d
graphics and related art |
| 15:49.32 |
DEFCON_ |
true |
| 15:49.40 |
``Erik |
but they
didn't in '97! woulda been the perfect time to break in
:D |
| 15:49.45 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:49.52 |
``Erik |
and,
uh |
| 15:50.01 |
``Erik |
have you seen
wow? peoples expectations aren't THAT high, dude |
| 15:50.02 |
DEFCON_ |
mal would be
rich now :) |
| 15:50.14 |
DEFCON_ |
just make ppl
addicted |
| 15:50.19 |
``Erik |
the noisy
ones who whine about 3d quality are the .5% of consumers called
"hardcore gamers" |
| 15:50.30 |
DEFCON_ |
or
chineese |
| 15:50.34 |
Maloeran |
'97? Ah, '92
would have been perfect! You could buy games like Raptor on the
shelves, software that I wrote a "clone" of in 3 days in a rush for
fun |
| 15:50.47 |
DEFCON_ |
hahaaa |
| 15:50.57 |
``Erik |
yeah |
| 15:51.05 |
DEFCON_ |
kill that
market :) |
| 15:51.09 |
``Erik |
I remember
the days when you could have something fun and kinda impressive in
a day or two in asm |
| 15:51.30 |
DEFCON_ |
those times
are over |
| 15:51.32 |
DEFCON_ |
:( |
| 15:51.38 |
``Erik |
the languages
haven't kept pace with the expectations :( thus my renewed interest
in lithp |
| 15:51.56 |
Maloeran |
Well Erik, if
you get some good idea for a fun project, I could use something
much lighter than CFD to relax my mind on |
| 15:52.23 |
``Erik |
I remember
when I was dorking with an fps, getting a reasonably nifty
algorithm from aav and coding it in scheme at 'good' framerates in
an hour or two |
| 15:52.39 |
DEFCON_ |
http://lithp-systems.websystems.nl/
? |
| 15:53.02 |
``Erik |
well, I have
a few fun ideas, but they tend to be revolving around capitolizing
on web based things these days |
| 15:53.50 |
DEFCON_ |
i'm starting
to dislike this channel |
| 15:53.51 |
``Erik |
low fruit
markets need trivial delivery and upgrade paths, and the web shit
offers that... and I'd like to make my living working in my
basement in my underwear O.o :D |
| 15:53.59 |
Maloeran |
How so,
DEFCON_? |
| 15:54.02 |
DEFCON_ |
u guys make
me feel dumb |
| 15:54.02 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:54.02 |
``Erik |
cuz I said
web? :D or capitolize? |
| 15:54.24 |
``Erik |
heh, sorry,
got a couple heavy hitting geeks going... |
| 15:54.30 |
DEFCON_ |
true
:) |
| 15:54.37 |
``Erik |
were you here
when starseeker was talking provability theory? |
| 15:54.39 |
DEFCON_ |
few of the
best here |
| 15:55.00 |
Maloeran |
Eh well, we
may have more experience too, I vaguely remember you were
younger |
| 15:55.16 |
DEFCON_ |
at the end of
my college, i had 93% on mathematics and 96% on
software |
| 15:55.24 |
DEFCON_ |
and u guys
make me feel dumb |
| 15:55.24 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 15:55.43 |
DEFCON_ |
i'm only 23
yo now :) |
| 15:55.45 |
``Erik |
the
cs/math/physics in college was a cakewalk |
| 15:55.53 |
DEFCON_ |
true |
| 15:55.57 |
Maloeran |
Erik started
coding before I was born, I'm 24 |
| 15:56.06 |
DEFCON_ |
true
:) |
| 15:56.06 |
``Erik |
summer of '83
I think |
| 15:56.22 |
``Erik |
my dad
brought home a shiney new coleco adam, and it had a basic
interpreter built right in |
| 15:56.22 |
Maloeran |
Oh darn, I
was born first then |
| 15:56.38 |
DEFCON_ |
haha, i
didn't |
| 15:56.49 |
``Erik |
and it's not
like you could run down to kmart or eb and buy games back
then |
| 15:57.06 |
DEFCON_ |
maybe i
should leave vb.net for what it is and set my mind 100% on
C |
| 15:57.16 |
``Erik |
so my dad
ordered a book called "games apples play" or something that was all
basic listings for the appleII |
| 15:57.22 |
``Erik |
and I started
portin' :D |
| 15:57.29 |
DEFCON_ |
sweet
:) |
| 15:57.37 |
Maloeran |
Defcon, I
think that would be great, but don't use EV as learning material
:) |
| 15:57.37 |
DEFCON_ |
i remember my
first game |
| 15:57.42 |
``Erik |
indeed |
| 15:57.55 |
DEFCON_ |
no Maloeran,
``Erik told me that before :) |
| 15:57.58 |
``Erik |
mal was
learning :D |
| 15:58.03 |
DEFCON_ |
indeed
:) |
| 15:58.13 |
``Erik |
impressive
output for what the architecture and style speaks to |
| 15:58.26 |
Maloeran |
Mal was also
writing code as fast as he could without any planning, I was not
*that* bad at the point, if I wanted to |
| 15:58.44 |
``Erik |
<-- tends
to bog down in the academics of perfection :( |
| 15:59.31 |
DEFCON_ |
haha
:) |
| 15:59.38 |
``Erik |
and in honing
that art, I've become adept at creating some of the ugliest crap
ever :D |
| 15:59.47 |
``Erik |
I mean, look
what I did to twingys libtie last night |
| 15:59.58 |
DEFCON_ |
what? |
| 16:00.18 |
DEFCON_ |
btw: u should
sleep at night |
| 16:00.18 |
``Erik |
heh, lemme
find the URL with diffs |
| 16:00.20 |
DEFCON_ |
k |
| 16:00.32 |
``Erik |
last night
being around 5:30pm |
| 16:00.41 |
DEFCON_ |
ohw |
| 16:00.44 |
DEFCON_ |
ok
then |
| 16:00.46 |
``Erik |
http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ |
| 16:01.24 |
DEFCON_ |
what should i
see? |
| 16:01.43 |
``Erik |
um |
| 16:02.09 |
``Erik |
preprocessor
symbol manging to permit multiple execution paths in the same
binary object from the same source code |
| 16:02.10 |
Maloeran |
Degenerate
triangles? I had to filter out these as well |
| 16:02.43 |
PrezKennedy |
Do degenerate
triangles have 4 sides? |
| 16:02.48 |
``Erik |
two copies of
libtie now exist in libtie.so, one built for float and one for
double... and it "just kinda picks the right one" |
| 16:02.59 |
DEFCON_ |
ah |
| 16:03.11 |
DEFCON_ |
anyway, i'm
going home now, search a decend C compiler |
| 16:03.19 |
``Erik |
we mostly use
gcc |
| 16:03.23 |
DEFCON_ |
k |
| 16:03.23 |
DEFCON_ |
tnx |
| 16:03.24 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 16:03.31 |
DEFCON_ |
i'll c you
guys tomorrow |
| 16:03.35 |
DEFCON_ |
maybe this
evening |
| 16:03.37 |
``Erik |
it's even
available on windows as "cygwin" or "msys" or "mingw32" or
"djgpp" |
| 16:03.43 |
Maloeran |
See you
later, defcon, it was nice to se you again |
| 16:03.50 |
DEFCON_ |
it sure was
Maloeran |
| 16:03.50 |
Maloeran |
see*
too |
| 16:03.53 |
DEFCON_ |
:) |
| 16:04.18 |
``Erik |
also; |
| 16:05.03 |
Maloeran |
Oh.
:) |
| 16:05.12 |
Maloeran |
So Erik, any
development on your fun projects? I really need something else than
work these days |
| 16:05.19 |
``Erik |
um |
| 16:05.24 |
DEFCON_ |
<PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.24 |
DEFCON_ |
$100 worth of
heroine, a dozen bags |
| 16:05.29 |
DEFCON_ |
= jab
? |
| 16:05.30 |
DEFCON_ |
lol |
| 16:05.31 |
DEFCON_ |
cya |
| 16:05.40 |
``Erik |
http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/ajax/hi.html |
| 16:05.54 |
``Erik |
the tiniest
kernel of a seed of an idea there |
| 16:06.16 |
``Erik |
start typing
a word (english) |
| 16:06.49 |
Maloeran |
I
see.. |
| 16:07.05 |
Maloeran |
Well, it's
something I wouldn't know how to do with my html 3.1 |
| 16:07.07 |
``Erik |
fun, huh?
:D |
| 16:08.02 |
``Erik |
the php for
that almost looks lisp-like, too |
| 16:08.05 |
Maloeran |
Does it
connect to some database? I don't suppose it's all client side with
a huge dictionnary, as Javascript would be |
| 16:08.58 |
``Erik |
no |
| 16:09.02 |
``Erik |
um |
| 16:09.05 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:09.10 |
``Erik |
it's ugly
right now |
| 16:09.47 |
``Erik |
the php has
all of /usr/share/dict/words stored in an array and does map and
filter operations on it... |
| 16:10.14 |
Maloeran |
Ah,
okay |
| 16:10.24 |
``Erik |
my next step
I think is to get a persistant lisp environment running, build the
list into a global suffix tree, then the request simple walks the
existing tree |
| 16:11.31 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (Makefile.am fbserv_obj_win32.c):
looks like the windows build is using the real fbserv_obj.c file
now, no longer need the fbserv_obj_win32.c empty stub |
| 16:11.35 |
``Erik |
I kinda want
to avoid an rdbms |
| 16:14.48 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.dsp: let vc6 try to use the
fbserv_obj.c file too instead of the empty stub |
| 16:28.44 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: a
new cracked glass algorithm in opengl for bzflag (responding to
'something else than work these days') :) |
| 16:29.06 |
``Erik |
ooh,
bzbots! |
| 16:29.18 |
brlcad |
bzbots are
almost done |
| 16:29.32 |
``Erik |
the
interface? cuz there's always room for new ai's :D |
| 16:29.41 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
interface |
| 16:29.57 |
brlcad |
that was one
of our GSoC projects that I mentored heavily |
| 16:30.16 |
``Erik |
think
there'll be an issue with people unleashing bots on player servers?
or will the server admins be diligent enough? |
| 16:30.47 |
``Erik |
I know back
in quakeworld, that was a "problem", and well behaved bots had a
command to remove them |
| 16:30.47 |
brlcad |
we now have a
programmable interface to the clients, allows pretty much any
language |
| 16:31.00 |
brlcad |
not any more
of a problem than we already have |
| 16:31.40 |
brlcad |
the bots
already identify themselves as such so some measures are easily
taken to allow server ops to say whether they want them or not, how
many, etc |
| 16:32.06 |
brlcad |
if someone
wants to be malicious, they can sure find a way, but then that's
not limited to bots |
| 16:32.52 |
brlcad |
our interface
is now pretty much "complaint" with the Robocode
interfacd |
| 16:33.07 |
brlcad |
save for the
conversions that were needed to make it work with 3D instead of
just 2D |
| 16:34.01 |
brlcad |
(e.g. they
had "width" and "height" for map dimensions.. height in 3D is
something else, so we changed it to mean Z and added a length/depth
function) |
| 16:34.45 |
``Erik |
right, we
talked about that at the bowling alley |
| 16:35.04 |
brlcad |
there's a
generic textual interface where you can connect to a port and issue
commands (from any code/language/program), or you can use the C++
Robocode layer, or you can use a higher level scripting language
(presently only Python is hooked in) |
| 16:35.08 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 18:51.20 |
prasad_ |
whoa new
op |
| 18:51.48 |
prasad_ |
dr. mike's
email addy should be the same right? |
| 18:54.00 |
``Erik |
should
be |
| 19:00.14 |
prasad_ |
``Erik: know
if he finished his 2nd phd? |
| 19:00.21 |
prasad_ |
was on
population dynamics |
| 19:00.33 |
``Erik |
um, he was
still working on the thesis last I heard |
| 19:00.56 |
``Erik |
he had most
of the data, he just had to write it up |
| 19:01.31 |
prasad_ |
that was when
i was still working there :\ |
| 19:01.42 |
``Erik |
yeah,
procrastination is grand :D |
| 19:01.56 |
``Erik |
I d'no if
he's actually worked on it |
| 19:02.30 |
Maloeran |
Oh, prasad_
is back among the #brlcad population :) |
| 19:02.47 |
prasad_ |
hey
mal |
| 19:02.56 |
prasad_ |
how's
progress on real time rt? |
| 19:02.59 |
``Erik |
wouldn't
blame him if he didn't, I mean, job with a new exciting area, hell
of a commute, wife and two kids... I can't imagine him sitting
around bored |
| 19:03.14 |
Maloeran |
And I just
realized I have no idea whatsoever if there's a difference between
"among" and "amongst" |
| 19:03.39 |
Maloeran |
prasad_, I
have been on computational fluid dynamics or in Australia lately,
but Mark from Survice is supposed to talk with Disney
soon |
| 19:03.59 |
prasad_ |
pixar? |
| 19:04.16 |
prasad_ |
following the
footsteps of hiro nakamura? :P |
| 19:04.16 |
Maloeran |
Yes, for
Renderman probably |
| 19:04.32 |
prasad_ |
masi oka did
fluid dynamics for pixar |
| 19:04.36 |
prasad_ |
before he
joined heroes |
| 19:04.46 |
Maloeran |
Oh, the CFD
and Disney are unrelated |
| 19:04.51 |
prasad_ |
i'll be
expecting mal to be in heroes season 4 |
| 19:04.52 |
prasad_ |
;) |
| 19:05.11 |
prasad_ |
oh booo
:( |
| 19:05.25 |
``Erik |
(disney is a
major reason the current us copyright laws are so fucked up... the
"mickeymouse" laws) |
| 19:05.26 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 19:05.33 |
prasad_ |
so what
happened with ur ray tracer? |
| 19:05.37 |
prasad_ |
is it open
sourced now? |
| 19:05.43 |
``Erik |
"ur"? I
should backhand you, boy |
| 19:06.12 |
Maloeran |
Not yet, I
think Mark want to try to get something from Disney and probably
otherrs first |
| 19:06.20 |
Maloeran |
others* |
| 19:06.23 |
``Erik |
(rt->disney, cfd->gvt) |
| 19:07.47 |
``Erik |
jjuusstt
ttuurrnn ooffff eecchhoo |
| 19:08.53 |
prasad_ |
(flash
intensive) u guys seen this? |
| 19:08.53 |
prasad_ |
http://www.iedvigilance.com/index_fl.html |
| 19:09.16 |
``Erik |
buy a mac,
save the 64b linux for the server room :D |
| 19:09.19 |
prasad_ |
crysis mod
for ied detection training |
| 19:10.21 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 19:12.29 |
``Erik |
add up the
bytes consumed, iterations per second and cache damage from doing
that... :) or try it and see if it's faster O.o |
| 19:14.43 |
Maloeran |
It's
technically faster, but I think I should begin to compromise my
optimisation principles... when anhiliating code readability for a
0.2% gain |
| 19:17.58 |
``Erik |
all design
tradeoffs *shrug* |
| 19:18.36 |
brlcad |
Maloeran:
there's not really a difference (among vs amongst), pretty
interchangable |
| 19:18.49 |
Maloeran |
All right,
thanks brlcad |
| 19:19.01 |
brlcad |
there's
probably a diff with the brits, but sans st is more common in the
US |
| 19:19.07 |
``Erik |
m-w lists
amongst as a variant of among |
| 19:19.20 |
brlcad |
same with
while and whilest |
| 19:19.38 |
``Erik |
my dad tends
to use the -st forms O.o it's annoying :D |
| 19:19.41 |
brlcad |
just an older
english form |
| 19:19.55 |
Maloeran |
*nods*
Okay |
| 19:20.21 |
archivist |
us brits use
the whole words |
| 19:20.55 |
alex_joni |
archivist:
and sometimes even the correct form of them |
| 19:21.01 |
brlcad |
prasad_:
what's the point of the link? |
| 19:21.02 |
``Erik |
you brits and
your extra letters and wrong letters |
| 19:21.11 |
brlcad |
the ied
description? |
| 19:21.57 |
archivist |
you yanks and
spelin /me blames Dewey |
| 19:22.07 |
``Erik |
http://dag.wieers.com/personal/docs/spelling.txt
<-- american brilliance to FIX that damn nasty language
*cough* er, wait, no, wait a minute O:-) |
| 19:22.21 |
brlcad |
the screen
rotation on the ied explosion is kinda lame |
| 19:24.52 |
``Erik |
japanese is
similar, extremely phoenetic |
| 19:24.53 |
brlcad |
you learn the
alphabet and you can properly pronounce every word |
| 19:25.11 |
``Erik |
and generally
monotonal in enunciation |
| 19:25.17 |
brlcad |
yeah, cept
there's only 28 or so letters in spanish :) |
| 19:25.35 |
``Erik |
hehehe, but
there're fewer SOUNDS in japanese |
| 19:25.54 |
brlcad |
just a lot of
grunting and bowing |
| 19:26.05 |
brlcad |
haigh! |
| 19:26.06 |
``Erik |
ano baka kuso
ttare |
| 19:26.32 |
``Erik |
actually,
that's "hai", two letters, see? |
| 19:26.33 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: all
the romantic langs are *really* similar |
| 19:26.35 |
Maloeran |
A french
speaking person can actually understand quite a bit of written
spanish |
| 19:26.57 |
alex_joni |
brlcad:
romanic |
| 19:27.02 |
brlcad |
french,
spanish, portuguese, italian .. I can get the gist in any of
them |
| 19:27.15 |
``Erik |
any romance
language can understand a chunk of other romance languages, just
like any germanic language can understand chunks of other toutonic
languages *shrug* |
| 19:27.30 |
``Erik |
and english
is a horrible train wreck combining the two *cough*
O:-) |
| 19:27.37 |
brlcad |
alex_joni:
actually "romance" iirc, hence romantic fits :) |
| 19:27.46 |
prasad_ |
brlcad:
reminded me of SLAD :P |
| 19:27.57 |
prasad_ |
then again
slad doesnt do training |
| 19:27.58 |
prasad_ |
:\ |
| 19:28.15 |
alex_joni |
brlcad: they
are actually derived from latin |
| 19:28.22 |
``Erik |
they train
you to be ineffective, unhappy, and ... :D O:-) |
| 19:28.40 |
prasad_ |
hehe |
| 19:28.59 |
alex_joni |
not sure why
they are called "romance".. we call tehm romanic languages (after
the roman (e.g. rome) people) |
| 19:29.14 |
alex_joni |
bbl |
| 19:29.45 |
``Erik |
the womans?
like naughtius maximus? biggus dickus? |
| 19:31.00 |
brlcad |
alex_joni:
you could probably find that etimology a little easier, but I'm
pretty sure romance is more prevalent (though admittedly nothing to
back that up atm) |
| 19:31.14 |
brlcad |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages
;-) |
| 19:31.28 |
``Erik |
I've always
heard "romance language" to describe the latin based
family |
| 19:32.07 |
brlcad |
probably
something useful in the wiki footnotes, but I don't really care
*that* much :) |
| 19:32.17 |
``Erik |
brlcad, any
more activity with migration.txt ? |
| 19:43.01 |
brlcad |
what do you
mean? |
| 19:43.35 |
``Erik |
it looks like
just netowrking performnace testing, then data migration and
testing... I d'no what all is rigged up on that, so I don't want to
get my fingers in it |
| 19:43.48 |
brlcad |
ooh, server
migration.txt... |
| 19:43.52 |
brlcad |
was thinking
cad |
| 19:43.59 |
``Erik |
dot org, yes
:D |
| 19:44.51 |
brlcad |
only activity
in the past week was me paying the bill, so no not recently
:) |
| 19:45.03 |
brlcad |
had a couple
big distractions come up past two weekends |
| 19:45.09 |
``Erik |
<--
thinkin' he's at the point where he'd be best as 'consultative
assistance' if anything, but eager to inflict horrible sins of
humanity on the new machines config... :D |
| 19:45.21 |
``Erik |
sins against
humanity, rather |
| 19:45.42 |
brlcad |
you're
welcome to test the net performance, dunno if you have any tools in
mind |
| 19:46.01 |
brlcad |
i was going
to do some ttcp'ing on old and new for starters |
| 19:46.24 |
brlcad |
to something
that has more bandwidth |
| 19:46.28 |
``Erik |
that was my
notion, but I'm not sure on the location, and doubt I have an
appropriate bounce host that's fast enough |
| 19:47.30 |
brlcad |
it's down in
florida, I was thinking to/from cad or a hopkins host I can get to
on internet2 |
| 19:47.58 |
brlcad |
anything on
> 100MBit line should do the trick |
| 19:48.02 |
``Erik |
heavy hitting
on cad might get perimeter notice |
| 19:48.44 |
brlcad |
done it
before to test cad's performance, which this still does
effectively |
| 19:48.44 |
``Erik |
and the uni
server I have is fiber capped at 20mbps (last I heard) and heavily
overburdened (due to cheap hicks running the finance
side) |
| 19:54.51 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am sh/make_dmg.sh sh/make_pkg.sh
sh/make_tar.sh): |
| 19:54.53 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
update the helper build scripts to the new version variables now
that MAJOR_, |
| 19:54.55 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
MINOR_, and PATCH_ are no longer being individually subst'd.
simplify them to |
| 19:54.57 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD: only
require a single version number in triplet form instead of
separated out |
| 19:55.07 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
individually (only mac make_pkg script needed it broken up
anyways). |
| 20:04.52 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p5487440C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:09.52 |
``Erik |
wow, beer
thirty already O.o |
| 20:56.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-65-148.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:17.33 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c):
removal of the "bit hack" |
| 21:46.09 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: remove
garbage in preprocessor line |
| 21:47.50 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/library/panedwindow.tcl: For the
moment catch the " identify " commands. Every now and then they
like to make noise. |
| 21:49.26 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add a catch
around utility plugin creation. |
| 21:53.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Do a recursive copy of
the bin dir. |
| 21:58.41 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/ (tienet.h
tienet_master.c): minimize use of tie.h |
| 21:59.43 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 *
10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copy
visual studio redist files. |
| 21:59.51 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie_struct.h: shuffle
and pad the tie_s struct for slightly safer use outside of the
dual-path environment... |
| 22:01.52 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (60 files in 60 dirs): Mods
to NOT treat wide chars as a built-in type. |
| 22:35.29 |
*** join/#brlcad kantor
(n=bird@82.78.175.164) |
| 22:36.17 |
kantor |
hi, I have
downloaded BRL-CAD for Linux the latest version in binary form but
I can't fin the main executable brlcad |
| 22:36.33 |
kantor |
is not in the
bin directory of BRL-CAD |
| 22:44.27 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: bah, convert the du size to
megabytes for hdiutil, otherwise just caps out at a gb |
| 22:44.37 |
brlcad |
kantor:
there's not a main "brlcad" executable |
| 22:44.44 |
brlcad |
BRL-CAD is a
suite of tools that work together |
| 22:45.07 |
brlcad |
'mged' is the
biggest of them, a quasi-unifying gui interface to a lot of the
functionality |
| 22:45.34 |
brlcad |
archer is
another similar interface, albeit more a prototype under
development |
| 22:48.46 |
kantor |
thanks |
| 22:48.51 |
brlcad |
there are
pretty extensive tutorials on the website for mged |
| 22:49.15 |
brlcad |
just follow
down the Documents list |
| 22:49.44 |
kantor |
ok |
| 22:50.20 |
kantor |
to work with
BRL-CAD you must to use the terminal, no ? |
| 22:51.11 |
louipc |
archer
doesn't like my Tcl version :/ |
| 22:52.23 |
louipc |
8.5b2 |
| 22:53.40 |
louipc |
kantor: yeah
the command line is essential |
| 22:53.53 |
brlcad |
but not
"necessary" :) |
| 22:55.10 |
brlcad |
kantor: you
should be able to edit the archer script and change the tclsh to a
btclsh (or /usr/brlcad/bin/btclsh if you don't want to add
/usr/brlcad/bin to your path) |
| 22:55.40 |
brlcad |
fyi, archer's
not really meant to be used by users -- it's prototype for
devs |
| 22:56.00 |
brlcad |
much more
graphically driven |
| 22:59.57 |
kantor |
brlcad, you
are one of the developers ? |
| 23:22.44 |
brlcad |
kantor:
yep |
| 23:23.07 |
brlcad |
if you have
any questions, particularly if you're interested in getting into
brl-cad development, please let me know :) |
| 23:23.21 |
brlcad |
new devs
eagerly welcome ;) |
| 23:25.58 |
kantor |
thanks ;-) I
must to think about that (but it is a good idea), the only problem
is that I'm developing two projects and it's hard to keep up . .
. |
| 23:26.10 |
kantor |
I think you
know that if you are a developer |
| 23:27.56 |
brlcad |
(emphatically) |
| 23:29.34 |
kantor |
I can find
you here every day, no ? brlcad |
| 23:30.20 |
brlcad |
yeah, pretty
much |
| 23:30.50 |
brlcad |
i live in
here .. maybe a few hours lag if I'm coding away or have gone to
workout or something |
| 23:31.11 |
brlcad |
so what
projects do you work on? |
| 23:31.13 |
louipc |
hmm looks
like it's libblt that doesn't like my Tcl |
| 23:36.59 |
kantor |
brlcad, one
is http://sourceforge.net/projects/odman/
and the other is aping http://directory.fsf.org/project/aping/ |
| 23:38.23 |
louipc |
hmmm |
| 23:38.51 |
brlcad |
I think I've
seen aping before |
| 23:39.35 |
kantor |
where ? I
mean this one ? |
| 23:40.50 |
brlcad |
yeah, in the
fsf directory |
| 23:41.11 |
brlcad |
you do know
that the original architect of brl-cad was the guy that first wrote
ping? |
| 23:41.30 |
brlcad |
mike
muuss |
| 23:42.07 |
kantor |
yes |
| 23:42.10 |
kantor |
mike
muuss |
| 23:43.25 |
kantor |
I saw the
pictures from the funeral of Mike |
| 23:44.04 |
brlcad |
yeah, chris
put those up -- rather eerie |
| 23:44.12 |
brlcad |
didn't really
look like him |
| 23:44.19 |
kantor |
and I read
that the original ping program was written in one day, or night
something like that |
| 23:44.26 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 23:44.43 |
kantor |
I think Mike
was a great programmer |
| 23:44.46 |
brlcad |
http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/ping.html |
| 23:45.52 |
brlcad |
he was rather
brilliant actually, and not just in programming |
| 23:46.23 |
brlcad |
he was nearly
single-handedly the reason why I started working on brl-cad so many
years ago |
| 23:46.52 |
brlcad |
exceptionally
charismatic and insightful guy |
| 23:46.59 |
kantor |
Chris was one
of hes best friend, no ? |
| 23:47.10 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 23:47.39 |
kantor |
yes and that
was my motivation too to write aping |
| 23:49.34 |
brlcad |
i was looking
to recombine all of the various ping sources back into one official
maintainership again a year or so ago, I think that's when I ran
across aping |
| 23:50.13 |
brlcad |
as there's a
windows variant with special options as well as maybe 2 or 3
significant *nix C variants |
| 23:50.34 |
brlcad |
all with
nearly 80% overlap |
| 23:52.42 |
kantor |
unfortunately
the development of aping was a little interrupted in the last 2-3
months . . . |
| 23:53.22 |
kantor |
whatever |
| 23:53.31 |
kantor |
I'm going
now |
| 23:53.42 |
kantor |
bye |
| 23:53.52 |
kantor |
see you
latter, alligator ! |
| 23:53.53 |
kantor |
:) |
| 23:54.47 |
louipc |
erk the last
blt release was in 2002? |
| 01:08.07 |
louipc |
was archer
supposed to work in linux on 7.10.4? |
| 01:13.39 |
louipc |
hmm nothing
in NEWS I guess not |
| 01:18.09 |
``Erik |
it's a
notional prototype, there's no active development in that
direction |
| 01:20.10 |
louipc |
ah. so no
intent to fully develop and support it? |
| 01:53.26 |
``Erik |
don't think
so *shrug* |
| 02:31.42 |
brlcad |
louipc: if
developers step up to work on it, sure |
| 02:32.15 |
brlcad |
am *I* going
to work on it -- not directly more than to get it working (which I
did) or to help someone else work on it |
| 02:32.29 |
brlcad |
Bob's
certainly interested in working on it, and has been making progress
in that area |
| 02:32.47 |
brlcad |
archer is
very closely tied to mged so things done for one often affect the
other regardless |
| 02:32.53 |
louipc |
I'd like to
work on something but I'm finding it all too overwhelming to find
something that I can begin to understand... |
| 02:34.02 |
louipc |
ah |
| 02:34.54 |
yukonbob |
brlcad:
briefly, can you tell me what bwish is supposed to do? It's got
some supporting libs linked in to give it some X
functionality? |
| 02:35.08 |
louipc |
yukonbob:
looks like it's mged's shell |
| 02:35.41 |
yukonbob |
louipc: well
-- it's not _strictly_ necessary because I stripped it from my
builds... |
| 02:35.46 |
louipc |
I was playing
around with it when I was trying to get archer working
:/ |
| 02:35.53 |
louipc |
hmm |
| 02:36.17 |
louipc |
oh yeah and
it opens up a little window |
| 02:36.18 |
yukonbob |
I know it's a
dependency of archer -- from CIA postings here... |
| 02:36.22 |
louipc |
which is
blank... |
| 02:36.48 |
yukonbob |
*wish ==
WIndowing SHell -> for Tk. |
| 02:37.08 |
louipc |
brlcad-wish? |
| 02:37.25 |
louipc |
heh yep wish
does the same little window |
| 02:37.42 |
louipc |
but doesn't
have mged commands |
| 02:41.15 |
yukonbob |
button .b; .b
configure -text bye -command {puts "ok, bye.";exit}; pack
.b |
| 02:43.52 |
brlcad |
louipc: well
I'd be glad to help get you started on anything that interests
you |
| 02:44.09 |
brlcad |
what are your
constraints/interests? |
| 02:44.49 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: bob
and I have actually been talking recently quite a bit about
bwish/btclsh and their future, related to some of the stuff you and
I talked about a while back |
| 02:45.01 |
brlcad |
bwish is to
wish as btclsh is to tclsh |
| 02:45.27 |
brlcad |
preloads the
brlcad libraries and sets up the auto_path with all of our various
extensions |
| 02:46.11 |
brlcad |
it was only
very recently made a dependency of archer, part of making it
consistent with the other brl-cad tools that use
btclsh/bwish |
| 02:46.18 |
yukonbob |
nice -- /me
had got the lib to load as a [package require foo], but hadn't
prefaced the routines w/ proper Tcl glue... |
| 02:47.07 |
brlcad |
we actually
got it working so that btclsh can eventually go away |
| 02:47.19 |
brlcad |
found a way
to reliaby generate the tclIndex files prior to install |
| 02:47.38 |
yukonbob |
that was my
ultimate goal -- no more btclsh, bwish, just a package -- removes
some cruft from the build/install... |
| 02:47.44 |
yukonbob |
mkIndex? |
| 02:48.26 |
brlcad |
more than
that, have to package require Itcl and Iwidgets for it to pick up
all the right symbols |
| 02:48.43 |
brlcad |
and to load
itcl *prior* to install, is a bit of a trick sometimes |
| 02:49.17 |
brlcad |
that's one of
the things btclsh takes care of, setting up an auto_path that works
whether installed or not |
| 02:50.01 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 02:50.03 |
brlcad |
but I think I
see a way to have them generate properly now with a fair bit of
configure script detecting |
| 02:50.26 |
Twingy |
foshizzle |
| 02:50.32 |
brlcad |
what up
g |
| 02:50.53 |
Twingy |
school and
autopilot stuff |
| 02:51.19 |
Twingy |
I need to get
my hpc account reactivated |
| 02:51.21 |
brlcad |
tea to the
double you in G to the why |
| 02:51.42 |
Twingy |
they own the
license for simulink |
| 02:53.06 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: as
for loading the brl-cad libs, that ones a fair bit more work --
there are fortunately *_Init() routines for all of the libs (so you
can load the lib), but have to generate the pkgIndex.tcl files with
proper loads |
| 02:53.36 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I've
not browsed the source -- do you know how many libs you're talking
about? |
| 02:54.34 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
look at src/bwish/main.c .. the Cad_AppInit() shows the bulk of
what btclsh provides including the various libs |
| 02:54.47 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 02:54.54 |
yukonbob |
;),
rather |
| 02:55.12 |
brlcad |
at a glance,
it's dm, fb, bn, bu, rt |
| 02:55.18 |
brlcad |
for the cad
libs |
| 02:56.27 |
brlcad |
then tcl, tk,
itcl, itk, iwidgets, and blt for the tcl libs |
| 02:56.42 |
brlcad |
though some
of those are optional for btclsh (bwish uses them all) |
| 02:58.27 |
yukonbob |
what I was
thinking of is just using wish/tclsh, and including the a wrapper
for the non-tcl components, or ea. non-tcl lib independently, so
one could: tclsh, % package require itk; package require
iwidgets... etc. and [package require brllib], which would have dm,
fb, bn, etc. |
| 02:58.27 |
brlcad |
so the first
step, which I think I see how to do now, is to get the compilation
using tclsh instead of btclsh during compilation |
| 02:59.03 |
brlcad |
yeah, that
would be the ultimate goal |
| 02:59.55 |
brlcad |
getting that
to work is going to be interesting, but seems doable if the indexes
can be generated properly |
| 03:00.23 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: I may
be naive, but I don't think that's going to be a big
deal. |
| 03:00.24 |
brlcad |
like I said,
the harder problem is making it so package require *anything*
actually works before *anything* is installed |
| 03:01.16 |
brlcad |
oh, I forgot
-- the other thing that btclsh provides which tclsh doesn't provide
(and is EXCEPTIONALLY annoying when you try to go back to it) is
cursor control |
| 03:01.25 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: well,
there's "load /path/to/lib" -- which is what fooIndex's are all
about wrapping... |
| 03:02.00 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: ah --
there's a readline-enabled tclsh... could look at it to see what's
going on... |
| 03:02.00 |
brlcad |
btclsh
actually has limited command-line editing capabilities, e.g. ctrl-a
takes you to beginning of line, ctrl-e, meta-w, etc all
work |
| 03:03.03 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
sure, load /path/to/lib in leu of package require .. but then
that's not really portable and would you want to bloat all the
scripts we might possibly run prior to install? |
| 03:03.36 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: the
command-line editing isn't a major deal -- that's just a minor
annoyance; and it's not even cross platform |
| 03:04.23 |
brlcad |
the windows
bwish kicks off a whole interactive window thing that has full edit
capabilities, for example |
| 03:04.23 |
yukonbob |
re: load --
just a bootstrapping option... |
| 03:04.23 |
brlcad |
s/bwish/wish/ |
| 03:04.23 |
brlcad |
hm? |
| 03:04.29 |
brlcad |
not
following |
| 03:06.12 |
brlcad |
the tcl
"load" command at least afaik basically calls the *_Init() routine
after doing whatever the equivalent of dlopen() on the
library |
| 03:07.21 |
yukonbob |
moot point --
at this point, there's not even loadable libs ;) |
| 03:07.39 |
brlcad |
auto_mkindex
isn't the problem, that *could* be bootstrapped into the script we
run (src/tclscripts/ami.tcl and
src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl) |
| 03:07.48 |
brlcad |
they are
loadable |
| 03:07.56 |
yukonbob |
since
when? |
| 03:08.23 |
louipc |
brlcad: a
couple of things I'd like to see solved would be this tcl stuff,
I'd also like to make it possible to create sketch objects with
text commands... it didn't seem possible last time I tried. I
really have to understand mged better though |
| 03:09.07 |
brlcad |
sushi:~
morrison$ tclsh |
| 03:09.07 |
brlcad |
% load
/usr/brlcad/lib/libbu.dylib |
| 03:09.07 |
brlcad |
%
bu_brlcad_data . |
| 03:09.07 |
brlcad |
/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.11.0/. |
| 03:09.23 |
brlcad |
since forever
really :) |
| 03:09.58 |
brlcad |
ever since
tcl was adopted, they've been loadable -- like I said, they all
have the necessary *_Init() routine that tcl uses |
| 03:10.03 |
louipc |
I'd like to
figure out how to hook other scripting langs into brlcad
too |
| 03:10.37 |
brlcad |
louipc: ooh,
improving the sketch primitive would be awesome |
| 03:10.41 |
brlcad |
and that's
fairly isolated |
| 03:10.52 |
yukonbob |
louipc:
swig |
| 03:11.01 |
yukonbob |
(www.swig.org) |
| 03:11.14 |
brlcad |
we're a fair
ways off from useful swiggability |
| 03:11.26 |
brlcad |
another thing
I was talking to bob (the other bob) just earlier today
about |
| 03:11.42 |
louipc |
hehe |
| 03:12.02 |
brlcad |
moving the
rest of mged's commands from src/mged into src/librt (wdb_obj.c and
dg_obj.c) .. it's about 70% complete at this point |
| 03:13.24 |
brlcad |
louipc: if
you want to jump into the sketch prim, lemme know -- the wdb
interface is one place that could use work, and then maybe a new
command-line "sketch editor" command(s) |
| 03:14.38 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
what I was saying is that while "load" works, that doesn't solve
the problem -- presently, the build system doesn't know what the
library name actually is -- it's just a libtool library |
| 03:15.03 |
brlcad |
libtool
manages the entire library creation and installation so that it has
the proper name for a given system |
| 03:15.47 |
brlcad |
and I
*really* would hate to have some hacked up case table that says if
platformA use .so, if platformB use .dylib, else use .dll,
etc |
| 03:16.48 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: [load
mylib[info sharedlibextension]] |
| 03:17.35 |
brlcad |
hm, that's
not bad |
| 03:18.00 |
yukonbob |
you mean
"it's good! Brilliant! I'll have your desk ready immediately, when
can you start?" |
| 03:18.09 |
yukonbob |
;) |
| 03:18.13 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 03:18.44 |
brlcad |
actually I
was going to say "how would that help, though? .. wouldn't want to
put that into every tcl script we have" |
| 03:19.29 |
louipc |
brlcad: yeah
that's one of many things I'd like to work on ;) |
| 03:19.32 |
yukonbob |
I put it in
the pkgIndex.tcl for the lib... so [package require foo] will be
managed by the single instance for fooIndex.tcl |
| 03:20.16 |
yukonbob |
eg: |
| 03:20.39 |
yukonbob |
package
ifneeded Expect 5.43.0 [list load [file join $dir ../..
libexpect543[info sharedlibextension]]] |
| 03:21.06 |
brlcad |
how does it
find foo's pkgIndex.tcl ? |
| 03:21.28 |
yukonbob |
(lib/tcl/expect5.43/pkgIndex.tcl) |
| 03:21.59 |
yukonbob |
the tcl
searchpath tests subdirs, so if you can find tcl, you ought to be
able to find anything else... |
| 03:22.35 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl: don't
assume /bin/tclsh, ask /usr/bin/env like a good boy |
| 03:22.46 |
brlcad |
so two
scenarios, 1 tcl is already installed, 2 it's sitting in
src/other/tcl/library |
| 03:23.23 |
brlcad |
1 would
entail installing .. which we've not done/finished yet |
| 03:23.38 |
yukonbob |
1) you'll use
the info in tclConfig.sh |
| 03:24.07 |
brlcad |
what
info? |
| 03:24.36 |
brlcad |
if tcl is
installed, tclConfig.sh will say that it's library is in /usr/lib
or /usr/lib/tcl8.4 or something |
| 03:25.09 |
brlcad |
we're not yet
in that subtree until after we install |
| 03:26.05 |
brlcad |
that's where
the tclcad_auto_path() function came into being as it sets up the
necessary (complex) autopaths that are involved even to get just
tclsh to work on a package require Itcl |
| 03:27.03 |
brlcad |
well the
second scenario we could deal with by shoving some initialization
routine into our sources for tcl, into src/other/tcl/library --
albeit rather ugly, it could probably work |
| 03:27.23 |
brlcad |
the first
scenario was the harder one |
| 03:27.53 |
yukonbob |
and the
problem is what? where to put shared libs? How to find
them? |
| 03:27.54 |
brlcad |
are their
environment vars that affect the auto_path? |
| 03:28.32 |
brlcad |
the problem
is package requiring anything that's not yet installed when you're
using a system tcl |
| 03:29.12 |
brlcad |
so say you
want to "package require GeometryBrowser" (which is valid) -- it
needs to know to look into src/tclscripts/geometree for
that |
| 03:30.03 |
brlcad |
if you run
src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl, you'll probably see if fail
saying it can't find that package |
| 03:30.21 |
brlcad |
if you run
through btclsh, it succeeds |
| 03:30.34 |
brlcad |
that's at
least the "ideal goal" or some variant of it, but using tclsh
still |
| 03:30.59 |
brlcad |
without
modifying the geometree.tcl script, or at worst adding a line
maybe |
| 03:31.07 |
brlcad |
*maybe* |
| 03:31.41 |
brlcad |
i'm thinking
something like: AUTO_PATH=blah/blah/blah tclsh
src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl might work |
| 03:31.47 |
brlcad |
if tcl
provides an env-way |
| 03:32.01 |
yukonbob |
? [load
[pwd]/some/other/dir/libname[info sharelibextension]] |
| 03:32.17 |
brlcad |
in this
instance, there's no lib to load |
| 03:32.23 |
brlcad |
it's pure
tcl |
| 03:32.37 |
yukonbob |
[source] |
| 03:33.16 |
brlcad |
but then
we're back to modifying every single tcl script that we might
possibly want to run |
| 03:33.43 |
brlcad |
with if
statements of some sort "are we running uninstalled, source .. or
maybe load, else just do it" |
| 03:34.50 |
yukonbob |
what if you
had a 'helper_for_uninstalled.tcl' that was called when necessary
during the build process that had the necessary mechanics -- ie:
could take a list of scripts to source, proc to run... |
| 03:35.20 |
brlcad |
sure, that'd
be minimal |
| 03:35.31 |
brlcad |
that's a
great idea actually .. :) |
| 03:35.43 |
yukonbob |
about my
desk... |
| 03:36.11 |
brlcad |
your
desk? |
| 03:36.28 |
yukonbob |
you know...
the one you're getting ready for me? |
| 03:36.40 |
brlcad |
oh,
hah |
| 03:36.49 |
brlcad |
got
it |
| 03:36.51 |
brlcad |
i think..
;) |
| 03:37.38 |
yukonbob |
the mechanics
can't be difficult for this, and how many piece of code actually
need this functionality -- can't be many? |
| 03:37.43 |
brlcad |
~tea
yukonbob |
| 03:37.43 |
ibot |
ACTION
realizes it's time for high tea and gets busy in the kitchen. He
brings out tea, crumpets, scones and an assortment of delectable
goodies and serves them properly to yukonbob and others |
| 03:37.47 |
starseeker |
yukonbob is
buying brlcad's desk? ;-) |
| 03:38.16 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
no, no no!!! -- I'm getting a job in BRL-CAD headquarters for my
Tcl insights... |
| 03:38.26 |
starseeker |
cool! |
| 03:38.35 |
yukonbob |
heh -- the
rumour is started.. |
| 03:39.00 |
yukonbob |
uh --
starseeker -- i'm joking, to be clear ;) |
| 03:39.28 |
yukonbob |
(hard to see
your face on irc to know how you reacted ;) |
| 03:39.36 |
starseeker |
;-) |
| 03:39.37 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: if
the wrapper is coded up right, it won't matter what
scripts |
| 03:40.02 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: true
-- but out of curiousity, what does need to be run
pre-installation? |
| 03:40.19 |
starseeker |
Given all the
hobbies brlcad has, making desks wasn't actually totally out of the
question :-P |
| 03:40.37 |
brlcad |
the most
critical ones that come to mind at the moment are the ami.tcl and
ampi.tcl scripts and mged |
| 03:41.45 |
brlcad |
I've not made
a desk before, but I have made cabinets, step-stools, shelves, and
a bookcase that can hold at least twice my body weight |
| 03:42.14 |
yukonbob |
to test,
brlcad quickly cloned self, stood on bookcase... |
| 03:42.17 |
brlcad |
carpentry
used to be a passive hobby past-time |
| 03:42.35 |
brlcad |
actually had
another friend who weighs about as much :) |
| 03:42.57 |
starseeker |
Nice :-).
Carpentry is a very satisfying hobby in terms of immediate
rewards |
| 03:43.50 |
brlcad |
dunno about
that "immediate" .. it was relaxing because it really pressured me
to "slow down" to get things done artfully |
| 03:43.50 |
*** join/#brlcad User731
(n=User731@71-95-182-43.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com) |
| 03:44.13 |
User731 |
hello anyone
there |
| 03:44.17 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 03:44.21 |
yukonbob |
shhh...
User731 is here.. |
| 03:44.31 |
User731 |
lol |
| 03:44.38 |
User731 |
need
help |
| 03:45.08 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 03:45.27 |
User731 |
any 1 know
were I can get a crack for mastercam x2 mr1 |
| 03:45.57 |
*** kick/#brlcad [User731!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad]
by brlcad (brlcad) |
| 03:46.06 |
yukonbob |
wtf was
that? |
| 03:46.33 |
brlcad |
someone just
looking for a serial number |
| 03:46.43 |
yukonbob |
ah.... |
| 03:47.22 |
starseeker |
brlcad: I
guess I was thinking carpentry is immediate in that you get to see
your project take shape as you do it, but you're right it takes
time to do it right. When I was young that was always my
downfall... |
| 03:49.14 |
brlcad |
that bookcase
I mentioned took me something like 6 months .. |
| 03:49.32 |
brlcad |
course I
crippled/challenged myself from the beginning |
| 03:49.42 |
starseeker |
No power
tools? |
| 03:49.48 |
brlcad |
started with
raw unprocessed lumber |
| 03:49.53 |
starseeker |
oooo |
| 03:50.11 |
starseeker |
yeah that'll
do it |
| 03:50.16 |
brlcad |
so I had to
shape, cut, sand, and attach each piece one by one |
| 03:50.20 |
brlcad |
painstaking |
| 03:50.28 |
starseeker |
What wood did
you use? |
| 03:50.37 |
brlcad |
and design
the whole book case as this modular thing |
| 03:51.05 |
brlcad |
that actually
separates into four distint pieces that most anyone can carry
individually |
| 03:51.23 |
starseeker |
Nice! |
| 03:51.23 |
brlcad |
oh, I was
broke back then, it was raw pine |
| 03:51.42 |
yukonbob |
density,
0.55 |
| 03:51.51 |
starseeker |
That helps a
little - hardwoods are rough on the tools and the
muscles... |
| 03:51.55 |
brlcad |
something
like $50 in materials and supplies and $5000 in labor
:) |
| 03:52.06 |
starseeker |
Sounds like
grad school :-) |
| 03:52.28 |
brlcad |
it is sturdy
as heck |
| 03:52.32 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
See what you started? ;-) |
| 03:52.39 |
brlcad |
hmmm.. i
should make a cad model of it! |
| 03:52.58 |
yukonbob |
starseeker:
no -- I'm missing somethig -- what did I start? |
| 03:53.08 |
starseeker |
brlcad DOES
do carpentry |
| 03:53.19 |
yukonbob |
is this re:
desks? |
| 03:53.20 |
brlcad |
it's roughly
20"x20"x7' |
| 03:53.24 |
starseeker |
yep |
| 03:53.26 |
yukonbob |
:) |
| 03:53.29 |
yukonbob |
lol |
| 03:53.47 |
starseeker |
7' tall - no
wonder it's modular |
| 03:54.09 |
brlcad |
three
shelves, a top, and a base |
| 03:54.25 |
starseeker |
how do you
connect the units into the whole? |
| 03:55.21 |
starseeker |
re: cad model
- that would be cool. Then you could model what weight of books
would be needed to warp it |
| 03:55.36 |
brlcad |
all made from
pine 1x4's iirc, "rough cut" |
| 03:55.59 |
yukonbob |
?could you
figure out the warp-a-bility via brlcad? |
| 03:56.13 |
brlcad |
the base and
top latch into each other like lego pieces almost |
| 03:56.23 |
brlcad |
rather, they
latch into the side walls |
| 03:56.36 |
brlcad |
that was part
what makes it so sturday |
| 03:56.51 |
starseeker |
Nifty. You
could probably pick up a patent :-) |
| 03:56.58 |
brlcad |
oh god..
warppage.. I spent so much time dealing with that |
| 03:57.36 |
yukonbob |
re: warpage
-- are you talking about your lumber twisting, or the deflection of
a surface because of a load/force? |
| 03:57.38 |
brlcad |
sanding down
pieces that I'd carefully hand-picked out of massive piles, trying
to find a good balance of quality wood with interesting knots but
not horribly warps |
| 03:57.52 |
brlcad |
only to have
it warp nasty, twisting all around as it dried :) |
| 03:57.59 |
starseeker |
yukonbob:
bowing of the shelves due to overly heavy books, but the others
apply too |
| 03:58.11 |
starseeker |
brlcad:
ouch |
| 03:58.15 |
brlcad |
oh, once I
carved it up, warping didn't really matter |
| 03:58.25 |
brlcad |
just took a
lot of prep work to get it to that point |
| 03:58.51 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
BRL-CAD + loads -- is that something that could be figured out, or
does it have much to do w/ BRL-CAD per se? |
| 03:59.02 |
brlcad |
at 20"x20",
the shelves are small enough that you're not likely to see warping
very easily for a long time |
| 03:59.18 |
brlcad |
I mean, I can
sit on a shelf, and it doesn't budge |
| 03:59.29 |
starseeker |
now we're
talking :-) |
| 04:00.05 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
depends what you mean by "could be figured out" :) |
| 04:00.30 |
brlcad |
heh,
totally |
| 04:01.29 |
brlcad |
I coulda
bought some simple unfinished pine shelves from ikea for $40 bucks
that would have been sufficient for what I had in mine use-wise,
but the experience of building it was fun and these will probably
outlast me |
| 04:01.43 |
starseeker |
Well, "just
enough" for the worst case scenario often looks like
over-engineering *cough*New Orleans levy system*cough* |
| 04:02.52 |
starseeker |
Indeed.
There's a sense of accomplishment when you build your own
stuff |
| 04:03.28 |
starseeker |
Confound it,
now I'm going to be curious if BRL-CAD can actually model long term
strain-induced warping effects |
| 04:03.45 |
starseeker |
IIRC that's a
rather different problem than ballistics |
| 04:04.12 |
brlcad |
you'd have to
right that analysis code, but there's nothing geometric that
prevents the computation |
| 04:04.38 |
starseeker |
solid
modeling should be the right environment for that, except that as
the structure warps you'll have non-uniform densities |
| 04:04.40 |
brlcad |
you'd have a
lot of prep-rigging that you'd have to declare, like you do for a
FEA |
| 04:04.48 |
starseeker |
right |
| 04:05.18 |
brlcad |
you could
very well keep track of all that with ray-tracing, though, without
resorting to finite elements |
| 04:05.50 |
starseeker |
would the way
to handle non-uniform densities be to approximate it with a series
of shapes of different densities? |
| 04:05.56 |
yukonbob |
*going to
have to have his hand... |
| 04:07.22 |
brlcad |
or break it
down into finite elements and run the navier-stokes equations or
maxwell or whatever else needed for whatever is being
simulated |
| 04:07.55 |
starseeker |
For anything
except trivially simple gradients that would be the only way to go
anyway |
| 04:08.21 |
brlcad |
i've always
thought it'd be very cool to implement something like a FEA without
the FE's using ray-tracing ala particle tracing |
| 04:08.35 |
starseeker |
that would be
interesting |
| 04:09.32 |
brlcad |
to run a fea
without the massive memory overhead, intrinsically parallelizable,
no geometry prep needed |
| 04:09.39 |
brlcad |
(other than
the rigging) |
| 04:09.40 |
starseeker |
There's a phd
for you brlcad :-) |
| 04:10.56 |
starseeker |
That sounds
like it would generate a lot of interest if it could tackle a wide
enough problem domain |
| 04:11.04 |
brlcad |
i can almost
see how it'd work |
| 04:11.13 |
brlcad |
which is what
makes it slightly less interesting too :) |
| 04:11.32 |
starseeker |
True, but on
the other hand it means you might get it done in finite time
;-) |
| 04:12.34 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
true |
| 04:13.40 |
brlcad |
still think
brl-cad needs a better visualization and modeling interface first,
then maybe make that one of the first plugins while I work on the
dissertation ;) |
| 04:14.29 |
starseeker |
:-) |
| 04:15.12 |
brlcad |
louipc: well,
let me know what you need, if anything :) I can point you to
source files, or explain most of the code related to that to get
you started -- if you have a small end-user goal in mind, that
would help |
| 04:17.37 |
starseeker |
Maloeran:
are you on? |
| 04:21.39 |
brlcad |
and if anyone
is still lacking for things to work on, there's still the big list
at http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 04:22.02 |
yukonbob |
if anybody
has spares hours in their day -- I'd be happy to take them off
their hands.... |
| 04:23.58 |
yukonbob |
was that
memory issues for DEMs ever resolved? |
| 04:24.33 |
brlcad |
the DSP
memory gobble bug? |
| 04:24.38 |
yukonbob |
yup |
| 04:24.43 |
brlcad |
no, it
wasn't |
| 04:24.58 |
yukonbob |
is it on
anybody's radar, or have a status? |
| 04:25.26 |
brlcad |
it's on my
radar |
| 04:25.34 |
yukonbob |
nice |
| 04:25.35 |
brlcad |
there are
just 500 other blips just like it |
| 04:25.41 |
yukonbob |
of
course |
| 04:25.49 |
brlcad |
all
moving |
| 04:25.59 |
yukonbob |
!Deploy the
scramblers |
| 04:26.05 |
brlcad |
so the ones
that blip the brightest usually get hit |
| 04:26.22 |
brlcad |
or the easy
ones on the outlier :) |
| 04:26.24 |
yukonbob |
heh -- are
you saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease? |
| 04:27.19 |
yukonbob |
you have lots
of internal users that come with bugs + "issues"? |
| 04:27.29 |
brlcad |
oh
yeah |
| 04:27.45 |
yukonbob |
how many
users do you support? |
| 04:28.39 |
brlcad |
it varies
heavily depending on what's going on |
| 04:29.04 |
yukonbob |
might you
have 50 people working away in front of BRL-CAD at
times? |
| 04:31.00 |
brlcad |
no no, not
nearly that many .. but it only takes one or two people to saturate
a dev |
| 04:31.38 |
brlcad |
since each
issue can take anywhere from 5 minutes/days/months/years to fully
resolve |
| 04:32.05 |
brlcad |
and they do
span that gamut all the time |
| 04:44.34 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
the artifacts in that model -- were you looking at the inside of
the hub body, or the transition edge at outside of shell to face
where spokes are inserted? |
| 04:45.35 |
yukonbob |
gah -- /me
remembers he wishes that mged ran on :0.1!!! |
| 04:45.54 |
yukonbob |
nice big
monitor idling... |
| 04:47.32 |
brlcad |
the ones on
the inside of the hub body |
| 04:49.07 |
brlcad |
that one I
did investigate, had a good talk with jra about it too, that's a
*really old* issue related to boolean evaluation and tolerancing
problems in the boolean weaver |
| 04:50.14 |
yukonbob |
tough to
fix? |
| 04:50.18 |
brlcad |
that's one of
those issues that is a blemish, but would probably take 5 weeks of
effort to address fully -- the segment is actually correct, just
the normal is for the wrong primitive (it's showing the outward
facing normal of the torus that touches there in negative
space) |
| 04:50.54 |
brlcad |
the fix might
even only take a day or two of effort, but it's at the utter core
of the ray-trace library and it'd take weeks of effort to
validate |
| 04:51.27 |
brlcad |
just to
ensure nothing else is changed with near absolute
certainty |
| 04:51.49 |
brlcad |
because the
boolean weaving is also at the heart of the analysis
codes |
| 05:03.52 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
nice line support in mged, btclsh -- is it supplied via gnu
readline? |
| 05:08.50 |
brlcad |
nope |
| 05:09.15 |
brlcad |
just coded up
as needed |
| 05:09.25 |
brlcad |
mged's is
*way* more extensive than btclsh's |
| 05:09.54 |
brlcad |
actually
supports vi and emacs binding modes among other
features |
| 05:10.15 |
yukonbob |
hrmm... |
| 05:10.27 |
brlcad |
readline
would be .. tricky to integrate given how we juggle with tcl and
how the even loop processes |
| 05:13.12 |
yukonbob |
apparently
the gnu readline has a callball mechanism that works well w/
tcl... |
| 05:16.12 |
brlcad |
well, let me
rephrase -- it would have been tricky for the feature jra was going
for, which was tab-completion |
| 05:16.22 |
brlcad |
just getting
it to process the line wouldn't be too tricky |
| 05:19.22 |
brlcad |
though I'd
probably use the editline library just to avoid rms's annoying
licensing agenda with readline |
| 05:23.56 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: check the
length |
| 05:28.50 |
yukonbob |
is editline
pretty portable? /me sees he's got a copy as part of his base
system, but what about linux, OS X, Windows? |
| 05:29.42 |
brlcad |
yeah,
very |
| 05:29.58 |
brlcad |
as much as
readline if not moreso, and a drop-in compatible api with
readline |
| 07:47.46 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:48.45 |
Defcon |
morning
all. |
| 07:48.49 |
Defcon |
happy hacking
today |
| 09:00.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:15.21 |
*** join/#brlcad cad40
(n=caf8549e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:48.04 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:43.47 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01_
(n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:57.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 14:07.19 |
brlcad |
howdy
Defcon |
| 14:08.16 |
Defcon |
hi
brlcad |
| 14:08.17 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 14:10.09 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/error.c burst/extern.h burst/prnt.c
bwish/winMain.c): const format specifier |
| 14:43.47 |
``Erik |
*readreadread* |
| 14:44.40 |
``Erik |
yes, model
your bookshelf, boy :D how would a geometry/raytrace analysis deal
with warping? that's one of the big issues with the real use,
deformation and geometry alteration is nontrivial... |
| 14:48.39 |
archivist |
sure is I had
to deal with roller distortion in a roller press |
| 14:49.00 |
archivist |
and the
needed grind profile to deal with it |
| 14:50.56 |
archivist |
its times
like that that you find deflection formulas are a
simplification |
| 14:51.11 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 14:51.12 |
Z80-Boy |
you need FEM
for deformations |
| 14:51.21 |
``Erik |
even the most
complicated fea is a simplification |
| 14:51.45 |
``Erik |
we're still
learning the fundamental physics :D |
| 14:51.53 |
archivist |
hehe |
| 14:51.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Sometimes the
paradigm of zero analysis is appropriate |
| 14:52.39 |
Z80-Boy |
For example I
bought a really ripped second hand skateboard which has a crack in
the middle |
| 14:52.45 |
Z80-Boy |
The question
is can it break under me? |
| 14:52.51 |
``Erik |
nah, just
admit and understand the limitations of different kinds of
analysis |
| 14:53.06 |
``Erik |
even eyeball
analysis are useful |
| 14:53.15 |
archivist |
when the job
is "roll a sheet of paper under 200 pounds per inch" you need to
work it out |
| 14:53.16 |
Z80-Boy |
Instead of
doing fea I asked a guy in the skatepark who was better than me and
he said unlikely unless I land badly |
| 14:53.21 |
Z80-Boy |
I can't jump
so I am OK |
| 14:53.22 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 14:53.37 |
``Erik |
given
sufficient velocity at impact, ANY skateboard will break under you
:D |
| 14:53.56 |
``Erik |
sufficient
momentum, even... or ke... *shrug* |
| 14:54.03 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: put the usage string into
the usage func, don't need a progname var when there's a
bu_getprogname() |
| 14:54.09 |
Defcon |
given
sufficient velocity at impact, EVERYTHING will break under
you |
| 14:54.27 |
Z80-Boy |
sufficient
velocity at impact contains "sufficient velocity" |
| 14:54.30 |
archivist |
or it breaks
you |
| 14:54.30 |
``Erik |
y'know,
that's something I've been pondering |
| 14:54.39 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't think
I attain sufficient velocity when I skateboard :) |
| 14:54.43 |
Z80-Boy |
I am
over-careful |
| 14:55.03 |
Z80-Boy |
I spend time
in skateparks and not hospitals :) |
| 14:55.17 |
Defcon |
:p |
| 14:55.17 |
Z80-Boy |
I am not like
Z-Boys who bombed through stop signs |
| 14:55.21 |
``Erik |
a marble of
unobtanium travelling at, oh, .99c impacts a rock planet with a
molten core, like, say, earth... does it break the planet? or just
punch a neat hole that automatically seals up? :D |
| 14:55.50 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: it
gets stolen before the impact |
| 14:55.52 |
brlcad |
Defcon: I
dunno if there's any velocity a person could be going on that would
break the planet .. I'm pretty sure most velocities will just
result in *splat* |
| 14:56.04 |
Defcon |
:p |
| 14:56.18 |
Z80-Boy |
I am sure
however one can skate with such a bad style the planet breaks up
just from having to watch it |
| 14:56.37 |
Defcon |
maybe at 12x
c it would break the planet & result in *splat* |
| 14:56.58 |
``Erik |
meatbags are
awful soft, probably become a nice plasma cloud before getting to
the surface if there's a sufficiently dense (like, human friendly)
atmostphere |
| 14:58.03 |
``Erik |
but, yeah,
brlcad, if you're trying to figure out weight limits and warping
using only csg geometry and rays, how would you account for shelf
deformation under weight? the support characteristics of the shelf
would change through the deformation... |
| 14:58.35 |
Z80-Boy |
if I model my
body in BRL-CAD how do I calculate which way I should fall to
minimize the results of wiping out on a skateboard? |
| 14:58.54 |
Z80-Boy |
What's worse
for human surface? Perpendicular hit or shear? |
| 14:59.31 |
``Erik |
I d'no,
karel, go collect test data to build a model. I suggest jumping off
of buildings and landing at different angles. make sure your
sampling is large enough :D *duck* |
| 14:59.47 |
Z80-Boy |
I'll go to
skatepark to collect samples |
| 15:00.18 |
``Erik |
the sheer and
strain of bones is a pretty complex topic O.o |
| 15:00.38 |
``Erik |
sheer and
stress, even |
| 15:00.41 |
Z80-Boy |
The problem
is I don't usually fall anymore |
| 15:00.44 |
Z80-Boy |
if I lose
balance |
| 15:01.00 |
Z80-Boy |
I bail unless
my legs get into quantum entanglement |
| 15:01.14 |
``Erik |
well, if y ou
never fall, you don't have to think about how to minimize damage
when falling... :D |
| 15:01.26 |
Z80-Boy |
It might take
so long for me to collect sufficient data so that the question
stops being practically relevant :) |
| 15:01.47 |
Defcon |
you would be
pro skater by then |
| 15:01.48 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 15:01.59 |
Z80-Boy |
Actually
walking is also quite a balance feat isn't it? And people don't
think about it as something worth thinking about |
| 15:02.04 |
Z80-Boy |
pro lamer
:) |
| 15:02.07 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
that's a problem of just how to do any non-trivial (i.e. not just
cylinder holes) shape deformation on a CSG model, regardless of
analysis/load/etc, same problem with modeling soft body
materials |
| 15:02.23 |
Z80-Boy |
A skateboard
would be easy to model wouldn't be? |
| 15:02.33 |
``Erik |
(and if you
lose enough control that you DO fall, will you have enough control
to optimize your fall for reduced damage? be better to just like
the 2-3 "safe" falls everyone uses and just have fun) |
| 15:02.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Ball bearings
are toruses and spheres and cylinders right? |
| 15:03.12 |
Z80-Boy |
For the axles
and kingpins I already have thread routines :) |
| 15:03.15 |
brlcad |
that's where
converting the solids to their equivalent brep spline surfaces
wins, at least for bending |
| 15:03.28 |
brlcad |
materials
that crack/fracture/shatter/tear are still another problem on top
of that |
| 15:03.39 |
``Erik |
the wheels,
bearings, bolts, etc should be easy to model, the boards body and
the trucks would be the most interesting bits |
| 15:04.02 |
Z80-Boy |
I could build
special BRL-CAD friendly trucks :) |
| 15:04.13 |
Z80-Boy |
I guess the
most strength/weight is in space frame |
| 15:04.19 |
``Erik |
yeah, but
under deformation, the material is no longer consistent.. if you
put a weight on a shelf and it bows, the density towards the top of
the board is higher than the bottom |
| 15:04.22 |
Z80-Boy |
so if I weld
myself space frame trucks... |
| 15:05.05 |
``Erik |
welds are
often weak points, and weight is a concern... most trucks are cast
aluminum iirc |
| 15:05.09 |
brlcad |
last night, I
was more thinking being able to do the static analysis on the CSG
model so that, with a given contact rigging and a specified set of
loads, you'd get an answer that says this object is going to bend X
amount, this other object will crack and potentially
shatter |
| 15:05.24 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: no
worry, the weakest point of my skateboard is surely my
skills |
| 15:05.33 |
``Erik |
at least on
cheap boards, mebbe they use cast iron or steel or something for
some *shrug* |
| 15:05.34 |
brlcad |
whether it
geometrically shows you that or not is a matter of remodeling and
visualization |
| 15:05.42 |
``Erik |
<-- hasn't
boarded since the 80's |
| 15:05.52 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: that
sounds like you have boarded |
| 15:05.53 |
Defcon |
<-- hasn't
boarded at all |
| 15:06.54 |
``Erik |
um, what's
the bridge model engineers use? like strut and spring or something?
that could probably be applied fairly easily, possibly generating
the values from material tables after the connection points/types
are annotated |
| 15:07.01 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_log.c): make
fb_log()'s format specifier constant |
| 15:08.24 |
``Erik |
but a model
of the bookshelf system would probably be a great test case for any
work in the drafting/ca{d,m} direction :D as well as a possible cae
candidate that joe blow can relate to |
| 15:08.40 |
brlcad |
I'll bring it
in and you can model it :) |
| 15:08.49 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: denote the fact that
fb_log format became const |
| 15:08.59 |
brlcad |
actually,
it's not an incredibly complex model.. it really would make for an
interesting test case |
| 15:10.08 |
brlcad |
because of
the way the major parts fit together with fairly well-known
connectivity (some are purely friction, some are massive bolts,
nails, screws |
| 15:11.36 |
brlcad |
what can't be
easily captured is the properties of the individual boards that are
riddled with various knottings but you could probably classify the
average strength of a given board |
| 15:14.46 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/error.c: const fb_log |
| 15:16.29 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (extern.h prnt.c):
constness |
| 15:20.54 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I put
the BRL-CAD logo into closing titles of the video with all the
models one after another |
| 15:21.19 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: the
open source one as you said |
| 15:21.22 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 15:21.36 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/axis.c: add a check to make sure we
don't exceed available buffer space for the dynamic number-of-digit
printing |
| 15:21.39 |
Z80-Boy |
Now I synced
the sound and am waiting for the video to compile |
| 15:21.52 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
guess maybe it could be used as a showcase video |
| 15:22.31 |
``Erik |
wood is too
complex to model at that scale... densities change all over the
place, cell coherence, etc.. best you could do is cut cylinders for
the knots and average, I'd imagine :D but just the design type
stuff would be neat and a start |
| 15:22.50 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik:
party? |
| 15:24.33 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
also found and reported several bugs recently |
| 15:26.48 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use bu_which() to find
pwd instead of relying on popen |
| 15:28.16 |
Defcon |
so why should
i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Modo,
3DSmax, ... ? |
| 15:28.50 |
Z80-Boy |
Defcon: is
Modo or 3DSmax free software? |
| 15:29.32 |
brlcad |
Defcon:
you're welcome to use whatever you like, I'm not a salesman
:) |
| 15:30.39 |
brlcad |
though
Z80-Boy does make a good point, we're open source, those aren't
solid modelers making them horribly-suited for analysis
purposes |
| 15:31.11 |
brlcad |
s/source,/source; and also/ |
| 15:31.38 |
Defcon |
good
point.. |
| 15:32.08 |
Z80-Boy |
Close-source
may fire back unpredictably in the future ;-) |
| 15:32.23 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 15:32.28 |
Defcon |
so why should
i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like
Blender?$? |
| 15:32.31 |
Defcon |
-$ |
| 15:33.33 |
brlcad |
blender's
also not a solid modeler |
| 15:33.50 |
Defcon |
meaning? |
| 15:33.53 |
brlcad |
it's a
content creation tool ala maya |
| 15:34.06 |
Defcon |
aah
k |
| 15:34.13 |
brlcad |
same reason I
wouldn't use Maya for CAD, I wouldn't use Blender for
CAD |
| 15:34.30 |
brlcad |
you use a CAD
system that's designed with engineering purposes in
mind |
| 15:34.40 |
Defcon |
yes
ofc |
| 15:34.51 |
brlcad |
not just
making pretty models for movies and animations |
| 15:34.51 |
Defcon |
my company
uses autoCAD |
| 15:34.59 |
Defcon |
for 2D
plans |
| 15:35.16 |
brlcad |
ask your
coworkers why you don't use maya |
| 15:35.28 |
brlcad |
you'll have
your answer |
| 15:35.31 |
Defcon |
dunno |
| 15:35.34 |
Defcon |
k |
| 15:35.35 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 15:35.53 |
brlcad |
assuming you
ask someone knowledgeable about CAD and Maya :) |
| 15:36.03 |
Defcon |
indeed
:) |
| 15:36.20 |
Defcon |
but that one
is gone now |
| 15:36.24 |
Defcon |
ill |
| 15:36.33 |
Defcon |
so i'll ask
him when he gets back :) |
| 15:36.44 |
brlcad |
though
AutoCAD is only a subset of the "CAD" software domain -- they're
CADD -- CAD for drafting purposes (i.e. predominantly focused on
the 2D modeling approach) |
| 15:37.09 |
Z80-Boy |
"The
creditors agreed to release Blender under the terms of the GNU
General Public License, for a one-time payment of
EUR100,000" |
| 15:37.16 |
Z80-Boy |
Hehe that's
like Ronja, but on much higher scale |
| 15:37.30 |
brlcad |
Defcon:
here's a rough idea where BRL-CAD presently stands in the CAD
arena: http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:39.33 |
brlcad |
where if you
know your CAD packages, CADD is roughly AutoCAD, MCAD would be
something like GibbsCAM, CAAD would be something like ARCHICAD,
etc |
| 15:39.40 |
Defcon |
whow very
nice |
| 15:40.01 |
Defcon |
us gov
..? |
| 15:40.02 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 15:40.31 |
brlcad |
ProEngineer,
CATIA, and Unigraphics would fall roughly under the CAD label in
the background |
| 15:41.19 |
Defcon |
hmm |
| 15:41.21 |
Defcon |
k |
| 15:41.43 |
Defcon |
so brl-cad is
revolutionary |
| 15:42.21 |
Axman6 |
eh? |
| 15:42.23 |
brlcad |
the main/only
discrepancy is the CADD domain is *massive*, so it's oval really
needed to be a lot bigger, but it throws off the purpose of the
diagram |
| 15:43.08 |
Defcon |
hmm
k |
| 15:43.23 |
Defcon |
brl-cad since
the mid 80's? |
| 15:43.35 |
brlcad |
yep, under
constant development |
| 15:43.45 |
Defcon |
wicked |
| 15:43.48 |
brlcad |
s/revolutionary/evolutionary/ |
| 15:43.54 |
Axman6 |
back when
there was a BRL |
| 15:44.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Hmm Blender
also seems to be possible to use for Ronja |
| 15:44.23 |
Defcon |
Blender and
Ronja sitting in a tree.. |
| 15:46.55 |
Axman6 |
Defcon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD |
| 15:48.57 |
Defcon |
tnx |
| 15:49.34 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: i may
have missed the point, but can you do balistics simularions with
brl-cad? |
| 15:49.58 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: bu_get_load_average() has
a horrible implementation but fortunately we don't even use it.
mark it deprecated. |
| 15:50.22 |
Z80-Boy |
I think I
even tried Blender before BRL-CAD |
| 15:51.17 |
Z80-Boy |
looks like an
unfinished project |
| 15:51.26 |
Z80-Boy |
Already in
INSTALL there are some patches embedded in the text |
| 15:51.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Doesn't have
a ./configure and build instructions are linked on an external
URL |
| 15:52.17 |
Z80-Boy |
Already from
the beginning suggests an impression that the people who do it have
no idea how to maintain software so it's practically usable for the
user |
| 15:52.21 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
brl-cad is a massive suite of utilities and libraries, those
libraries in particular are used for various purpose including for
ballistic simulations |
| 15:53.09 |
brlcad |
we don't
provide those analysis codes, but they rely heavily on brl-cad's
speed, geometry flexibility and representation formats, and our
modeling tools |
| 15:53.24 |
Axman6 |
ah
ha |
| 15:53.59 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
that's because they are secret by the army, right? |
| 15:54.24 |
brlcad |
but to give
you an idea, there is a BRL-CAD model of just about every military
asset that has been in existance over the past two decades
including tanks, helicopters, planes, some ships, etc |
| 15:55.01 |
Z80-Boy |
hehe |
| 15:55.10 |
Axman6 |
... woah.
right, didn't know brl-cad was that well utilised b the military
tbh :P |
| 15:55.10 |
Z80-Boy |
do you also
have the Roswell alien flying saucer? |
| 15:55.22 |
brlcad |
I keep it in
my back pocket |
| 15:55.29 |
brlcad |
people
overestimate the size of that saucer |
| 15:55.31 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: do
you also have aircraft carriers? |
| 15:55.36 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: care
to share some cool models? |
| 15:56.19 |
Z80-Boy |
It takes too
long to install |
| 15:56.25 |
Z80-Boy |
Requires a
lot of external dependencies |
| 15:56.28 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
there's only one "interesting" semi-real model, and I'm not sure
how cool I'd call it .. fairly low-detail model of the russian
havoc helicopter |
| 15:56.45 |
Axman6 |
heh, that'd
be cool |
| 15:56.50 |
brlcad |
http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 15:57.00 |
brlcad |
that model is
included (havoc.g |
| 15:57.07 |
brlcad |
in the
distribution |
| 15:57.15 |
Axman6 |
ah
cool |
| 15:57.26 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: how
was this model created? |
| 15:57.40 |
Axman6 |
any idea how
long something like that takes to create? |
| 15:57.42 |
brlcad |
with
mged |
| 15:57.55 |
Z80-Boy |
but how were
the dimensions acquired? |
| 15:58.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Through
secret espionage? |
| 15:58.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Or measuring
a captured piece of the helicopter? |
| 15:58.38 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
depends on the modeler's expertise level -- something like havoc
probably/usually takes about a month to model, maybe less, maybe
more |
| 15:58.57 |
brlcad |
i can't say
how havoc was acquired |
| 15:59.04 |
Z80-Boy |
is it
secret? |
| 15:59.12 |
brlcad |
no, it's
because I don't know :) |
| 15:59.13 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: do
you work for ARL or somewhere related? |
| 15:59.14 |
*** join/#brlcad b0ef
(n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 15:59.21 |
Defcon |
going
home |
| 15:59.23 |
Defcon |
ttyl
all |
| 15:59.24 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
lol |
| 15:59.37 |
brlcad |
havoc is an
old helicopter, though |
| 15:59.48 |
brlcad |
you can
actually buy one off the market now iirc |
| 15:59.53 |
Axman6 |
looks a lot
like an apache |
| 15:59.54 |
Z80-Boy |
is havoc an
official army code name for this type? |
| 16:00.07 |
brlcad |
apache's a
lot bigger, and the model is *way* cooler ;) |
| 16:00.17 |
Axman6 |
damn it
:P |
| 16:00.19 |
Axman6 |
gimme! |
| 16:00.26 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: but
not public I guess :) |
| 16:00.31 |
brlcad |
not in the
least |
| 16:00.38 |
Axman6 |
pity |
| 16:00.44 |
Axman6 |
so who makes
the models? |
| 16:00.50 |
brlcad |
modelers? |
| 16:00.53 |
Z80-Boy |
A secret
department? :) |
| 16:01.07 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: do
you also have some models of state of the art nuclear weapons?
:) |
| 16:01.20 |
brlcad |
there aren't
nearly as many secret departments as you'd like to think, or as
hollywood would like to make you think |
| 16:01.29 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: like
all the little parts inside with nanometer precision? |
| 16:01.37 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: says
you, but how would you know! |
| 16:02.29 |
Axman6 |
bah, you're
crap at divulging information |
| 16:02.35 |
Axman6 |
:( |
| 16:03.01 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: do
you have to do 20 pushups in your army office? |
| 16:03.43 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: I am
sure they must have secret NATO calling codes and firearms
everywhere |
| 16:04.06 |
Axman6 |
ASIO? or
brlcad? :P |
| 16:04.18 |
Z80-Boy |
Hehe I just
got an interesting idea |
| 16:04.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I saw a boat
with about 8 people catch a wave in a surfing video |
| 16:04.47 |
Z80-Boy |
The marines
could try to catch a tsunami with an aircraft carrier |
| 16:04.56 |
Z80-Boy |
or those rare
superwaves created by storms |
| 16:05.12 |
Axman6 |
we kill
brlcad, steal his identity, take his awesome modles, ray trace them
at massive resolutions, and fill the entire capacity of the
internet? |
| 16:05.12 |
Z80-Boy |
then make a
video and post to youtube :) |
| 16:05.31 |
Axman6 |
haha |
| 16:05.33 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: no
way killing and stealing is illegal |
| 16:06.03 |
Axman6 |
ok, we'll
hide him in a washing machine, and borrow the models |
| 16:06.10 |
Z80-Boy |
I guess the
Army must have a special department to make sure the Hollywood
always gets it wrong |
| 16:06.20 |
Z80-Boy |
To not
divulge any strategic information :) |
| 16:07.06 |
Axman6 |
but ya see,
if they're like "i'm sorry, you cannot put that in your movie",
then they've just divulged that the stuff they made up is really
real |
| 16:07.12 |
Z80-Boy |
They probably
send random bits of modified information about the truth to all the
Holywood directors |
| 16:07.51 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: no
they come "hey the truth is actually more colourful than you
portray - our aircraft carriers can also travel in the
space!" |
| 16:08.21 |
Z80-Boy |
And that's
how they made the star trek/star wars I always confuse those two
names the names are so similar |
| 16:08.27 |
Z80-Boy |
Both begin
with "Star" and a space. |
| 16:08.37 |
Axman6 |
lol |
| 16:09.26 |
Z80-Boy |
I know in
once of them there were some Jedi Knights with battery-operated
coloured fluorescent tubes with internal ballast in their
hands |
| 16:10.35 |
Axman6 |
oh crap. i
heard an ad today for a new kids toy, can't remember it's actual
name, but it was something like "The transforming Dath Vader Death
Star something something" |
| 16:11.09 |
Axman6 |
glow
swords |
| 16:11.15 |
Z80-Boy |
and now kids
have to carry bulky transformers |
| 16:11.24 |
Z80-Boy |
instead of
more moder switched mode power supplies |
| 16:12.18 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): finally obsolete
bu_brlcad_path() and bu_tcl_brlcad_path(), which were marked
deprecated back in 7.4; callers should now be using
bu_brlcad_data() and bu_brlcad_root() depending on the nature of
the lookup. |
| 16:12.19 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: i've
done push-ups at work before |
| 16:12.31 |
brlcad |
but because I
can and I like em :) |
| 16:12.41 |
brlcad |
and 20 would
be for a wuss |
| 16:13.53 |
Axman6 |
i always
sucked at puch-ups, too tall and chubby i guess. always dominated
at sit-ups though |
| 16:13.57 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I go
to a gym does it count instead? |
| 16:14.13 |
Z80-Boy |
I dominate at
sit-at-computers |
| 16:14.22 |
brlcad |
depends what
you do at the gym |
| 16:14.33 |
brlcad |
if you go
there just to guy-watch, it doesn't really count for much
:) |
| 16:14.46 |
Z80-Boy |
push and pull
various bars and handles and lift damn heavy irons with
that |
| 16:15.07 |
Z80-Boy |
If I need
power I guy-watch and engage higher level of fantasy |
| 16:15.10 |
brlcad |
mm.. speaking
of guns.. I should go to the gym tonight to work on them some
more |
| 16:15.28 |
Axman6 |
heh, brlcad,
what do you get for $249.99 from brlcad.com that you can't get free
from brlcad.org? |
| 16:15.37 |
Z80-Boy |
Like "omg...
I am lazy to stop and switch from 60 down to 55... I'll watch this
guy and imagine he wants me and now I have to impress
him..." |
| 16:15.44 |
brlcad |
Axman6:
guaranteed support |
| 16:15.54 |
Axman6 |
but you're
always here! |
| 16:15.56 |
brlcad |
printed
documentation and CDs |
| 16:16.46 |
brlcad |
Axman6: yes,
but I don't have to answer a goddamn question if I don't want to
:) |
| 16:17.02 |
Axman6 |
you're an op,
of course you do! |
| 16:17.02 |
brlcad |
you pay them
for answers |
| 16:17.31 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: you
are in Maryland? According to the Survice map it looks like you are
close to some kind of deep bay |
| 16:17.36 |
*** mode/#brlcad [-o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 16:17.38 |
Z80-Boy |
isn't it a
river estuary actually? |
| 16:17.45 |
brlcad |
what that you
say, sonny? |
| 16:17.48 |
Axman6 |
i always (try
to) in #macosx where i'm an op, and it's got 1000x more idiots than
here ;) |
| 16:18.09 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: yes,
in maryland -- survice's headquaraters is just down the
road |
| 16:18.18 |
Axman6 |
Z80-Boy:
submarines maybeh? |
| 16:18.25 |
brlcad |
and that bay
is .. the Chesapeake Bay |
| 16:18.40 |
Axman6 |
i've heard of
that... |
| 16:18.41 |
brlcad |
pretty
reknowned bay |
| 16:18.58 |
Axman6 |
being an
aussie, i'm a little surprised |
| 16:19.15 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
guess there must be no waves - but if you drive out the bay, can
you surf there? |
| 16:19.29 |
brlcad |
ever heard of
"Old Bay" seasoning? your supermarket undoubtedly carries it --
Chesapeake is the "Old Bay" |
| 16:20.09 |
brlcad |
the source of
"maryland crabs" and "maryland crab cakes" that you can find at
seafood restaurants |
| 16:20.32 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: the
east coast US is horrible for surfing |
| 16:20.34 |
Axman6 |
they named an
STI after a place? |
| 16:20.48 |
brlcad |
the wind
direction and short beaches don't help |
| 16:21.02 |
brlcad |
STI? |
| 16:21.16 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: hey,
you have subtropical climate! That's great! |
| 16:21.33 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: "bay
leaves"? |
| 16:21.35 |
brlcad |
right now
there's about 2 inches of snow on the ground |
| 16:22.24 |
Z80-Boy |
oops |
| 16:22.36 |
Z80-Boy |
and
California is supposed to have mediterranean |
| 16:22.45 |
Z80-Boy |
Under which
they image 10 degree centigrade water... |
| 16:22.54 |
brlcad |
different
bay |
| 16:23.41 |
brlcad |
yeah, the
water is slightly warmer on the east, but with the different wind
direction and the apalachean mountains blocking the coast, you just
dont' get big waves |
| 16:23.48 |
Z80-Boy |
But at least
you have the Hawaii :) |
| 16:24.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 16:24.11 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: the
waves are generated in distance anyway |
| 16:24.20 |
Axman6 |
rawww! wtf
irssi/screen! |
| 16:24.29 |
Z80-Boy |
When I was
surfing, we were receiving waves probably generated by that
tropical cyclone whatever impaling at FLorida |
| 16:24.35 |
Axman6 |
anyway... STI
= sexually transmitted infection |
| 16:24.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't
remember the name but it was in the news |
| 16:24.49 |
brlcad |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay |
| 16:24.54 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
read it |
| 16:25.13 |
brlcad |
yeah, forgot
that it's also the largest estuary |
| 16:25.35 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
wonder if Britan also classifies as "horrible" for
surfing |
| 16:25.35 |
brlcad |
I'm within a
few miles of the very tip of the bay |
| 16:25.44 |
Z80-Boy |
Unless you
are a polar bear... |
| 16:25.44 |
Axman6 |
ok, sleep
time for me. g'night guys |
| 16:25.52 |
brlcad |
cya
aussie |
| 16:26.11 |
Axman6 |
Z80-Boy: yeah
it's pretty bad over there |
| 16:26.12 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: have
you been to Hawaii? |
| 16:26.17 |
brlcad |
nope, not
yet |
| 16:26.29 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: not
yet? |
| 16:26.32 |
Z80-Boy |
Planning? |
| 16:26.37 |
brlcad |
buddy and I
talked about going recently |
| 16:26.41 |
brlcad |
he's trying
to kill me |
| 16:26.47 |
brlcad |
(via
surfing) |
| 16:27.03 |
brlcad |
either the
major waves down in mexico or hawaii |
| 16:27.31 |
brlcad |
I already
almost died several times on 12 foot waves in
california |
| 16:27.32 |
Z80-Boy |
I would
prefer gradually increasing the killing force of the waves to get
used to it |
| 16:27.40 |
brlcad |
I don't need
20-30 footers |
| 16:27.43 |
Axman6 |
best place to
go would be chaupu (sp...) in fiji i think |
| 16:27.44 |
Z80-Boy |
are you an
experienced surfer? |
| 16:28.28 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: you
can hide from the wave underwater |
| 16:28.32 |
brlcad |
I've surfed
all of three times, all day, or about 40 hours total :) |
| 16:29.01 |
Z80-Boy |
I have surfed
6 days 5 hours a day 30 hours total |
| 16:29.23 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
don't think the size is appropriate for you unless you are a
surf-learning superhero :) |
| 16:31.08 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
almost died what danger did you get into? |
| 16:49.59 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548779F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:54.15 |
``Erik |
wait, what?
stars and space? in the same context? how very unique and original
O.o |
| 16:55.19 |
prasad_ |
``Erik: what
lever are u now? |
| 16:55.29 |
``Erik |
whu? |
| 16:57.13 |
prasad_ |
er |
| 16:57.14 |
prasad_ |
level |
| 16:57.51 |
``Erik |
I d'no if
you'd be able to find a havoc for sale, the Mi-28 was a prototype
competing to replace the Mi-24 'hin', and I thought it lost out to
a ka model (which was never pushed due to the collapse over
there) |
| 16:58.01 |
``Erik |
level? O.o
you're confusin' me, boy |
| 16:58.10 |
prasad_ |
wow |
| 16:58.33 |
prasad_ |
ka-52? |
| 16:59.19 |
``Erik |
wikiwikiwiki.... um, the ka50,
originally... but havoc development continued |
| 17:00.06 |
``Erik |
wow, mi28n is
being moved into the russian military |
| 17:01.02 |
``Erik |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28 |
| 17:02.42 |
prasad_ |
WoW |
| 17:03.05 |
``Erik |
oh, um, 70,
56, ... a couple others |
| 17:06.39 |
prasad_ |
yikes |
| 17:06.48 |
prasad_ |
addict?
;) |
| 17:07.03 |
``Erik |
nah,
efficient :D I play mebbe 2-3 days a week |
| 17:07.18 |
``Erik |
and still
watch all the shows on tv *shrug* O.o |
| 17:12.03 |
prasad_ |
star trek mmo
might be canned :( |
| 17:12.21 |
prasad_ |
perpetual
ent. going out of business (says gamasutra) |
| 17:12.30 |
prasad_ |
i was looking
forward to that one |
| 17:38.06 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: allow
dynamic lib to be build |
| 17:38.38 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (camera.h
render_internal.h): fixes for third party consumers |
| 17:40.37 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: add missing
closing paren. |
| 17:41.21 |
*** join/#brlcad minute-ssh
(n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:43.55 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: oh,
just getting tossed around in the bigger waves, learning to surf --
the water was exceptionally rough when I first went out |
| 17:44.13 |
brlcad |
even my
buddy, who's surfed for years was having trouble catching
waves |
| 17:45.10 |
brlcad |
it was about
right for me skill-wise, I still eventually got the hang of it, and
the rush of lethal situations is always fun |
| 17:49.31 |
Z80-Boy |
trouble
catching waves? |
| 17:49.36 |
Z80-Boy |
I never had
trouble catching a wave |
| 17:49.52 |
Z80-Boy |
I always had
a trouble standing up the way they insisted is the optimum
one |
| 17:50.01 |
``Erik |
apparently
you've never surfed on a pond |
| 17:50.01 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 17:50.28 |
Z80-Boy |
I had once
trouble not catching a wave though |
| 17:51.12 |
Z80-Boy |
They said I
should cancel the attempt when someone is already standing on the
wave |
| 17:51.16 |
Z80-Boy |
but I
couldn't! |
| 17:51.41 |
Z80-Boy |
I put my
hands into the water as deep as I could, tremendous force, but the
wave had a more tremendous force :) |
| 17:52.21 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548779F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:53.47 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbed/prnt.c: change fb_log
definition to match the prototype in fb.h |
| 17:55.06 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: change fb_log
definition to match the prototype in fb.h |
| 18:24.48 |
CIA-28 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): use
bu_avail_cpu()s instead of the FreeBSD-only get_procs()
version |
| 19:05.32 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 19:33.49 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@217-162-110-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:07.32 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (Makefile.am plane.c
plane.h): plane is now cut |
| 20:09.17 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render.h: plane is
now cut |
| 20:10.33 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: bring in
cleanup that was done on plane.c |
| 20:11.43 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h:
RENDER_METHOD_PLANE is a synonym for RENDER_METHOD_CUT
now |
| 20:16.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: mirror the mesh
hit/select in libcommon (pre-migration) |
| 20:16.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst.h: build the
isst/adrt synonyms |
| 20:17.53 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: use the
new tienet api... sorta... |
| 20:18.22 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (load.c load.h
Makefile.am): bring in the mysql load stuff (kinda) before removing
it... O.o |
| 20:19.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (env.c unpack.c):
plane is now cut |
| 20:25.47 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: once again, rtwizard seems to be busted.
getting bad screen distance ":41.25" processing the -width option
on the itk_component(bar) on the
RTWizard::FeedbackDialog |
| 20:37.12 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: bring in
changes from the new adrt stuff |
| 20:52.41 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: how
old were you when you stopped skateboarding? |
| 21:06.30 |
Maloeran |
I was at
Surfer's Paraside near the gold coast a couple weeks ago, but I
wasn't too good at that particular activity |
| 21:11.42 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran:
wow. So you tried surfing there/ |
| 21:13.00 |
Maloeran |
Yes, only the
second time I ever tried though :), I rarely could last more than 5
seconds standing |
| 21:14.09 |
Maloeran |
The best part
of the trip to Australia was definitely the scuba diving in the
coral reefs |
| 21:17.52 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran:
that's already quite good :) |
| 21:18.25 |
Z80-Boy |
For the
second time definintel |
| 21:18.26 |
Z80-Boy |
y |
| 21:19.15 |
Z80-Boy |
But we here
in Europe are a bit handicapped compared to US or
Australia |
| 21:19.17 |
brlcad |
Maloeran, no
not on vacation .. just general discussion about previous
adventures |
| 21:19.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Surfing in
the UK means who manages to stand up in Brighton is a world
champion :) |
| 21:19.56 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: did
you dive with tanks? |
| 21:20.13 |
Maloeran |
Of course
Z80, for about a week |
| 21:20.35 |
Z80-Boy |
"I would like
M1A1 Abrams oxygen tanks, please..." |
| 21:20.39 |
Maloeran |
I went in the
Whitsunday Islands, it's absolutely magnificent |
| 21:21.34 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran:
colourful fish and reefs? |
| 21:22.11 |
Maloeran |
Sure, I took
some pictures too : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/ |
| 21:22.52 |
Maloeran |
I certainly
recommend the experience if you enjoy diving |
| 21:26.39 |
Z80-Boy |
Very nice,
like a paradise |
| 21:26.50 |
Z80-Boy |
http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef085.html
this needs to be modelled using a torus I guess |
| 21:27.58 |
Z80-Boy |
Oops this
looks like an alien brain attack from the outer space http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef105.html |
| 21:28.09 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.98.111) |
| 21:29.00 |
Maloeran |
Eheh, most of
my pictures came out fairly bad ( not available online ) ;
luminosity is low and it's tricky to stand perfectly still when
under water |
| 21:29.33 |
Maloeran |
Or when
purchasing in sprint various large fishes, it came out all blurry
of course |
| 21:30.19 |
Maloeran |
The only
half-decent picture of my shark : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef046.html
*sobs* |
| 21:31.08 |
Maloeran |
when chasing*
in sprint |
| 21:32.36 |
Z80-Boy |
Isn't that
Surfers Paradise? |
| 21:33.25 |
Maloeran |
The scuba
diving was at Airlie Beach, Whitsunday Coast, Whitsunday Islands,
Daydream Island |
| 21:33.42 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it
suitable for lamers, this Surfers Paradise? |
| 21:35.11 |
Z80-Boy |
What does
red/yellow mean? Supervised beach? |
| 21:35.12 |
Maloeran |
One should
probably start with something easier, but the Gold Coast beaches
are great for swimming or other activities too |
| 21:35.38 |
Maloeran |
The colored
flags? Yes |
| 21:35.45 |
Z80-Boy |
Did you go on
your own bike? |
| 21:36.32 |
Maloeran |
I borrowed
one on a couple occasions, the cities seemed a bit poor in bicycle
lanes |
| 21:37.52 |
Maloeran |
Are you
considering a trip to Australia? |
| 21:38.06 |
Z80-Boy |
After these
pictures I think it would be nice to go there :) |
| 21:38.26 |
Z80-Boy |
But not
seriously yet. Put it into the todo list :) |
| 21:40.49 |
Maloeran |
The
experience has been rather poor culturally and culinary, it sure
depends what you are after |
| 21:42.40 |
Z80-Boy |
They have the
architectural spirit of London! I want that! |
| 21:44.29 |
``Erik |
<mal>
it's not french, so it sucks |
| 21:44.32 |
``Erik |
*cough* :D
O:-) |
| 21:44.53 |
Maloeran |
Eh oh, I
loved Mexico :) |
| 21:45.18 |
``Erik |
yeah, decent
mexican food is difficult to find in the US, and I can't even find
shitty mexican food around here :( |
| 21:45.52 |
``Erik |
or decent
sushi *sigh* |
| 21:46.13 |
``Erik |
and, uh,
yeah, yukonbob, mysql... one of my tasks with that bit of software
is to DE-sql it, though O.o |
| 21:46.47 |
Z80-Boy |
and now sleep
good night |
| 21:47.26 |
Maloeran |
May the night
gently rock your dreams |
| 21:48.41 |
Z80-Boy |
I know some
French surfing |
| 21:48.57 |
Z80-Boy |
Pleine Mer
means the water is up. Basse Mer means the water is
down. |
| 21:49.09 |
Z80-Boy |
Mountee means
going up and what is going down I don't know |
| 21:49.42 |
Z80-Boy |
good
night |
| 21:50.48 |
``Erik |
I learned my
french from the germans. I only know two phrases, "Je me rends!"
and "merde" |
| 21:50.49 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 22:02.56 |
Maloeran |
Tsk
:) |
| 22:13.28 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 22:23.25 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p548779F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:37.27 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 22:43.08 |
Maloeran |
make
sandwish |
| 22:43.13 |
Maloeran |
make: *** No
rule to make target `sandwish'. Stop. |
| 22:44.06 |
Maloeran |
Oops, it's
sandwich of course |
| 22:47.01 |
yukonbob |
mmm... /me
gets idea for smoked beef sandwich -- thx Maloeran |
| 23:28.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6_
(n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au) |
| 23:45.38 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 23:48.15 |
starseeker |
Maloeran:
around? |
| 02:25.34 |
*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 02:49.34 |
*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org) |
| 03:05.50 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 05:46.57 |
*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy
(n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 07:08.16 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:41.16 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
(n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:55.27 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 07:55.45 |
Defcon |
yesterday i
did my first C console app: "Hello World" |
| 07:56.11 |
Defcon |
so now it's
time to make my own standalone multi process webserver |
| 07:56.15 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 07:56.38 |
yukonbob |
Defcon: let's
see your code!!!1 |
| 07:56.48 |
Defcon |
hello
world? |
| 07:56.52 |
yukonbob |
yup |
| 07:57.00 |
Defcon |
k |
| 07:57.18 |
Defcon |
_tprintf(_T("Hello world\n")); |
| 07:57.22 |
yukonbob |
have you
thought of what license you're going to release it
under? |
| 07:57.39 |
Defcon |
or |
| 07:57.40 |
Defcon |
cout <<
"Hello world\n"; |
| 07:57.42 |
yukonbob |
?C |
| 07:57.45 |
Defcon |
gpl? |
| 07:57.51 |
yukonbob |
that's
C++ |
| 07:57.56 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 07:58.02 |
yukonbob |
C++ !=
C |
| 07:58.07 |
Defcon |
i have no C
compiler at home |
| 07:58.16 |
Defcon |
*work |
| 07:58.17 |
yukonbob |
well, C++
ought to be a superset of C |
| 07:58.33 |
Defcon |
yeah i
thought so |
| 08:00.36 |
yukonbob |
you need
#include <stdio>, #include <stdlib> int main (int argc,
char **argv) {printf ("Hello, whirled!\n");
exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);} |
| 08:01.01 |
yukonbob |
^---
obviously not formatted properly |
| 08:05.57 |
alex_joni |
yukonbob: you
just need '\' there, and it's formatted about right :D |
| 08:06.27 |
yukonbob |
alex_joni:
will the CPP choke on the includes, or is that what you're saying
the \ is for? |
| 08:07.13 |
Defcon |
#include
"stdafx.h" |
| 08:07.13 |
Defcon |
#include
"consoleCodeTry.h" |
| 08:07.13 |
Defcon |
#ifdef
_DEBUG |
| 08:07.13 |
Defcon |
#define new
DEBUG_NEW |
| 08:07.13 |
Defcon |
#endif |
| 08:07.14 |
Defcon |
CWinApp
theApp; |
| 08:07.16 |
Defcon |
using
namespace std; |
| 08:07.18 |
Defcon |
int
_tmain(int argc, TCHAR* argv[], TCHAR* envp[]) |
| 08:07.20 |
Defcon |
{ |
| 08:07.22 |
Defcon |
int nRetCode
= 0; |
| 08:07.24 |
Defcon |
if
(!AfxWinInit(::GetModuleHandle(NULL), NULL, ::GetCommandLine(),
0)) |
| 08:07.26 |
Defcon |
{ |
| 08:07.28 |
Defcon |
_tprintf(_T("Fatal Error: MFC
initialization failed\n")); |
| 08:07.30 |
Defcon |
nRetCode =
1; |
| 08:07.32 |
Defcon |
} |
| 08:07.34 |
Defcon |
else |
| 08:07.34 |
yukonbob |
arg!!!! |
| 08:07.36 |
Defcon |
{ |
| 08:07.38 |
Defcon |
_tprintf(_T("Hello world\n")); |
| 08:07.40 |
Defcon |
system("PAUSE"); |
| 08:07.42 |
Defcon |
} |
| 08:07.44 |
Defcon |
return
nRetCode; |
| 08:07.46 |
Defcon |
} |
| 08:07.48 |
Defcon |
that is
everything |
| 08:07.50 |
Defcon |
whatwhatWHAT? |
| 08:07.52 |
yukonbob |
~pastebin |
| 08:07.55 |
ibot |
[~pastebin] A
"pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over
3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few :
http://www.pastebin.com ,
http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste
, http://paste.lisp.org ,
http://www.rafb.net/paste |
| 08:08.08 |
Defcon |
hmm |
| 08:08.10 |
Defcon |
nice |
| 08:08.18 |
alex_joni |
yukonbob: it
will choke |
| 08:08.41 |
Defcon |
http://pastebin.com/m68797761 |
| 08:08.52 |
Defcon |
lol
alex |
| 08:11.12 |
Defcon |
hmmm |
| 08:11.22 |
Defcon |
so i should
throw C++ away |
| 08:11.44 |
yukonbob |
oh -- that's
up to you.. |
| 08:12.02 |
Defcon |
indeed it
is |
| 08:12.08 |
Defcon |
but.. |
| 08:12.10 |
yukonbob |
apparently is
quite a task to learn, though (might want to just use C to
start) |
| 08:12.24 |
Defcon |
that's what i
wanted to do :) |
| 08:12.27 |
Defcon |
learn
C |
| 08:12.37 |
yukonbob |
...and it
depends, is this required for anything, or self-improvement, or
?? |
| 08:12.50 |
Defcon |
but the C++
is the only C like compiler i have atm |
| 08:13.06 |
Defcon |
self-improvement mostly |
| 08:13.23 |
yukonbob |
does c++ seem
interesting to you? |
| 08:13.39 |
yukonbob |
heh |
| 08:13.42 |
Axman6 |
*cough* |
| 08:13.42 |
Defcon |
no |
| 08:13.56 |
yukonbob |
:? -- so why
are you studying it |
| 08:14.02 |
Defcon |
it seems like
a big pile of gibberisch to me |
| 08:14.08 |
Defcon |
because i
have this: http://wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip |
| 08:14.15 |
Defcon |
Maloeran's
ev |
| 08:14.28 |
Defcon |
and i want to
be able to understand it |
| 08:14.34 |
Defcon |
so i can edit
it |
| 08:14.41 |
Defcon |
to make it
bugfree and stuff |
| 08:14.44 |
yukonbob |
what is that
thing you posted? |
| 08:15.07 |
Defcon |
a webbased C
game made by Maloeran |
| 08:15.18 |
Defcon |
with
standalone webserver |
| 08:15.18 |
yukonbob |
C, or
C++ |
| 08:15.24 |
Defcon |
C |
| 08:15.47 |
Defcon |
[09:12:49]
<Defcon> but the C++ is the only C like compiler i have
atm |
| 08:16.35 |
Defcon |
that's
why |
| 08:16.55 |
yukonbob |
try raw C in
it and see what happens |
| 08:17.08 |
Defcon |
.. |
| 08:17.15 |
Defcon |
make me an
hello world :) |
| 08:17.23 |
yukonbob |
use the one I
posted ;) |
| 08:17.34 |
Defcon |
i have no
idea what the diff is between C and C++ |
| 08:17.35 |
Defcon |
ah |
| 08:17.35 |
Defcon |
k |
| 08:18.26 |
Defcon |
Error1fatal
error C1010: unexpected end of file while looking for precompiled
header. Did you forget to add '#include "stdafx.h"' to your
source?c:\wbe\wazigbe\webroot\_dev\consolecodetry\consolecodetry\consolecodetry.cpp7 |
| 08:18.30 |
Defcon |
hmm |
| 08:19.11 |
yukonbob |
might require
flags for your compiler? (what compiler are you using?) |
| 08:19.27 |
Defcon |
C++ |
| 08:19.33 |
Defcon |
Visual Studio
2005 |
| 08:21.23 |
alex_joni |
it's
<stdafx.h> not "stdafx.h" |
| 08:21.35 |
Defcon |
the ""
work |
| 08:21.38 |
alex_joni |
default
system headers are always between "<>" |
| 08:21.54 |
Defcon |
k |
| 08:22.14 |
Defcon |
system(PAUSE); |
| 08:22.22 |
Defcon |
what was the
right syntax of this? |
| 08:22.32 |
Defcon |
system("PAUSE"); ? |
| 08:22.33 |
alex_joni |
Defcon: giyf
:) |
| 08:22.40 |
Defcon |
giyf? |
| 08:22.47 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 08:22.52 |
yukonbob |
ciao
alex_joni |
| 08:22.56 |
yukonbob |
ciao
Defcon |
| 08:23.07 |
alex_joni |
http://www.google.com/search?q=giyf |
| 08:23.31 |
Defcon |
cya |
| 08:23.39 |
Defcon |
ah |
| 08:23.39 |
Defcon |
haha |
| 08:23.41 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 08:23.45 |
Defcon |
anyway |
| 08:23.46 |
Defcon |
http://pastebin.com/m5f1af3cb |
| 08:23.50 |
Defcon |
that
works |
| 08:23.50 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 08:24.57 |
Defcon |
man i should
rtfm |
| 08:25.54 |
yukonbob |
get "The C
Programming Language" |
| 08:26.30 |
alex_joni |
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568849397/ref=cm_cr_pr_orig_subj |
| 08:26.36 |
alex_joni |
Defcon: no
offense ;) |
| 08:27.23 |
yukonbob |
http://www.amazon.ca/Programming-Language-Brian-W-Kernighan/dp/0131103628/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197620770&sr=8-1 |
| 08:29.16 |
yukonbob |
then ditch
Windows, get a BSD box and Advanced Programming in the Unix
Environment, and you're set ;) |
| 08:29.31 |
yukonbob |
http://www.amazon.ca/Advanced-Programming-UNIX-R-Environment/dp/0201433079/ref=pd_bowtega_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197620925&sr=1-1 |
| 08:30.42 |
yukonbob |
ugh --
must... tear ... self... away from ... books!! |
| 08:41.02 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:46.38 |
Defcon |
yeah tnx
alex_joni & yukonbob |
| 08:46.49 |
Defcon |
that would be
great to begin with :) |
| 08:48.28 |
Defcon |
<add
key="AppVersion" value="1.0.1 beta" /> |
| 08:48.31 |
Defcon |
iep |
| 08:48.37 |
Defcon |
soz wrong
window |
| 08:58.21 |
Z80-Boy |
5/win
11 |
| 09:01.10 |
Defcon |
..? |
| 09:05.49 |
Z80-Boy |
5/win 11
means "I tried to switch the IRC windows but made a typo during
that" |
| 09:07.50 |
Defcon |
ah |
| 09:07.51 |
Defcon |
ok |
| 09:07.54 |
Defcon |
good to
know |
| 09:39.17 |
alex_joni |
Z80-Boy:
irssi? |
| 09:40.53 |
Defcon |
Irssi - The
client of the future |
| 10:06.05 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezzKennedy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 10:08.37 |
brlcad |
ow |
| 10:50.06 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: clean up the list of temp
directories that we try to identify so they can all be
treated/tested the same in a loop. the interface should be pretty
solid now. |
| 11:04.25 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: document the bu_temp_file()
parameters, don't truncate the filename if it won't
fit. |
| 11:04.55 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare the two parameters to
bu_temp_file() for storing the filename |
| 11:10.31 |
*** join/#brlcad kwizart
(n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart) |
| 11:39.53 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: in order for the filename to
be useful, we need to not automatically unlink it right after it's
opened -- add it to the closure linked list and unlink the file
later during application exit. |
| 11:46.09 |
brlcad |
heh, http://youtube.com/watch?v=ywqu_8RIDvU |
| 11:49.12 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
finally managed to get the audio/video in sync - do you want to see
a preview of the video? |
| 11:49.19 |
brlcad |
sure |
| 11:49.20 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: it
has a BRL-CAD logo in the end titles |
| 11:49.52 |
brlcad |
fire
away |
| 11:50.11 |
brlcad |
is this the
result of your 336 line'd function? |
| 11:52.20 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I'll
upload it... 25MB - isn't it too much? |
| 11:53.07 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: that
was some unrelated function |
| 11:53.55 |
brlcad |
not at
all |
| 11:54.46 |
brlcad |
heh, you can
upload almost as much as you like *especially* when it's brl-cad
related ;) |
| 11:55.14 |
brlcad |
bandwidth is
not a concern in the least, and as soon as the migration is
completed, there will be more disk space to spare too |
| 11:55.15 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
what's interesting is the video is generated completely
automatically - if you change a detail in some model and type
"make", those 25MB of video will be automatically
updated |
| 11:55.35 |
Z80-Boy |
That's
probably a different approach than is used in the world of Windows
GUI applications. |
| 11:55.46 |
Z80-Boy |
That's a big
advantage. |
| 11:56.19 |
brlcad |
be
interesting to see your script(s)/process that generates the video
too |
| 11:56.33 |
Z80-Boy |
hmm I wrote
some custom C utilities for that |
| 11:56.58 |
brlcad |
yeah, i
recall, your yuv converter |
| 11:57.16 |
Z80-Boy |
I also wrote
a wave simulator for the title video effect |
| 11:57.25 |
Z80-Boy |
and a small
program to scroll the end titles |
| 12:00.00 |
kwizart |
hello all!
i'm testing brlcad on Fedora but i have a problem starting
mged |
| 12:00.03 |
kwizart |
invalid
command name "gui" |
| 12:00.03 |
kwizart |
MGED
aborted. |
| 12:00.17 |
kwizart |
any tips
? |
| 12:00.22 |
kwizart |
display is
set |
| 12:00.25 |
Z80-Boy |
kwizart:
typing just "mged"? |
| 12:00.29 |
kwizart |
yes |
| 12:00.37 |
Z80-Boy |
kwizart: just
compiled BRL-CAD? |
| 12:00.41 |
kwizart |
yes |
| 12:00.48 |
kwizart |
well
7.10.4 |
| 12:00.51 |
Z80-Boy |
kwizart: that
shouldn't happen |
| 12:01.20 |
brlcad |
kwizart: hm,
that usually means that tcl/tk initialization is messed
up |
| 12:01.46 |
brlcad |
'gui' is the
first command |
| 12:02.05 |
kwizart |
maybe i need
to set tcl/tk variable there aren't setted |
| 12:02.13 |
brlcad |
kwizart:
how'd you compile |
| 12:02.32 |
brlcad |
there are
lots of things that can go wrong during the install/compile -- I
suspect you compiled against a system tcl? |
| 12:02.53 |
kwizart |
yes and it is
0.8.4 |
| 12:02.56 |
kwizart |
sh
%{_libdir}/itclConfig.sh |
| 12:03.02 |
kwizart |
before
configure |
| 12:03.08 |
brlcad |
things are
still tricky getting mixtures of system-installed and non-system
compilations working |
| 12:03.14 |
brlcad |
0.8.4? |
| 12:03.16 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: still
uploading and we're going to lunch... |
| 12:03.34 |
kwizart |
tcl-8.4.13-19.fc7 |
| 12:03.36 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: no
problem, just post the link when it's ready and I'll get to it
:) |
| 12:04.19 |
brlcad |
8.4 can work,
but it should have required some source edits.. |
| 12:04.38 |
brlcad |
kwizart: are
you using system incrtcl too? |
| 12:04.47 |
brlcad |
more to the
point, can you post your configure summary? |
| 12:06.00 |
kwizart |
cannot find
incrtcl on yum maybe i miss this one ? |
| 12:06.31 |
brlcad |
first what's
your summary? |
| 12:06.37 |
brlcad |
it'll say
what it found and didn't find |
| 12:06.49 |
brlcad |
should be
near the end of your config.log |
| 12:06.58 |
brlcad |
if it's no
longer in your console history |
| 12:07.53 |
brlcad |
section in
config.log is the second line that contains "BRL-CAD
Release" |
| 12:08.06 |
kwizart |
onfigure:
WARNING: Unable to link against a system Tkstub library |
| 12:08.54 |
kwizart |
<PROTECTED> |
| 12:08.54 |
kwizart |
ib64/brlcad
--disable-rpath --enable-shared --disable-static
--enable-64bit-build --enable-opennurbs-build --disable-tcl-build
--disable-tk-build --disable-itcl-build --disable-iwidgets-build
--disable-blt-build --disable-tkimg-build --disable-jove-build
--with-x11 --with-opengl --with-sdl --with-python=/usr/bin/python
--with-x --with-libs=-L/usr/lib64/itcl3.3/
-L/usr/lib64/itk3.3/ |
| 12:09.33 |
brlcad |
hmm, you've
been trying the fedora build for a while, yes? |
| 12:09.42 |
brlcad |
i.e. we've
had the talk about clobbering system libraries? :) |
| 12:09.52 |
kwizart |
http://pastebin.ca/815796 |
| 12:10.26 |
kwizart |
yes Build
Date: ven 09 nov 2007 16:48:55 |
| 12:11.01 |
brlcad |
oh, nifty
-fstack-protector |
| 12:11.04 |
kwizart |
And there is
still some minor problem I would solve prior to officially start
review for Fedora official repositories |
| 12:12.18 |
kwizart |
do you mind
it can break thing? it is part of the "mandatory" CLAGS for Fedora
every package have to use... |
| 12:12.33 |
brlcad |
fwiw, java
sdl and python are *not* required -- there are interfaces that use
them, but they should intently not be listed for any
packager |
| 12:12.39 |
kwizart |
but in some
case, it could be adjusted if it really breaks things |
| 12:13.04 |
brlcad |
you mean
stack-protector? |
| 12:13.09 |
kwizart |
yes
? |
| 12:13.11 |
brlcad |
that should
be fine |
| 12:13.52 |
brlcad |
we should
come up clean -- if we don't, it's probably something very very
recent that slipped in |
| 12:14.12 |
brlcad |
we've run all
sorts of bounds, stack, and memory protectors/detectors/cleanups in
the past |
| 12:16.29 |
brlcad |
i'm surprised
you have the tcl init problem -- you do have it configured to use
system tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidgets |
| 12:17.17 |
brlcad |
for what it's
worth, you might do well to use --disable-all given how many
--disable-*-build's you have :) |
| 12:17.54 |
brlcad |
(see INSTALL
for details on the --disable-* flags and their aliases) |
| 12:18.24 |
kwizart |
i only have
--enable-opennurbs-build \ but maybe I need to have it built alone
then links to it... |
| 12:18.46 |
kwizart |
(if ever
another FOSS can use it) |
| 12:18.47 |
brlcad |
you can leave
that disabled for now |
| 12:19.04 |
kwizart |
ok |
| 12:19.08 |
brlcad |
that's for
code under active development, it's not ready/used by production
code yet |
| 12:19.17 |
brlcad |
just starting
to integrate |
| 12:24.46 |
kwizart |
is this a
problem ? configure:41521: WARNING: Unable to link against a system
Tkstub library ? |
| 12:25.20 |
kwizart |
ah, found
that configure:41533: checking for incrTcl library
functionality |
| 12:25.21 |
kwizart |
yes |
| 12:25.54 |
brlcad |
yeah, if the
system one didn't work, configure should have
complained |
| 12:26.14 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: use bu_temp_file() instead
of mktemp/mkstemp for generalized temp file management. fixes
assumption that there's a /tmp and that we can write to C:\ on
windows |
| 12:26.15 |
brlcad |
so they seem
to work, just not finding the right tclcad_auto_path |
| 12:27.07 |
brlcad |
kwizart: I
don't think the tkstub link warning is a problem -- it would have
caused a build failure elsewhere if it was a problem -- and since
the compile completed, that's not the problem |
| 12:27.12 |
brlcad |
run
this: |
| 12:27.21 |
brlcad |
mged
-c |
| 12:27.25 |
brlcad |
set
auto_path |
| 12:27.35 |
brlcad |
what does
that report after the set auto_path? |
| 12:28.02 |
kwizart |
/usr/lib
/usr/share/tclscripts /usr/share/tclscripts/lib
/usr/share/tclscripts/util /usr/share/tclscripts/mged
/usr/share/tclscripts/geometree /usr/share/tclscripts/rtwizard
/usr/share/tcl8.4 /usr/share /usr/lib64 |
| 12:28.29 |
kwizart |
/usr/share/tcl8.4 that one is wrong
(checking) |
| 12:28.57 |
kwizart |
hum no it
exist (but there is also a /usr/lib64/tcl8.4 |
| 12:34.08 |
brlcad |
it's okay if
there are extra |
| 12:34.08 |
brlcad |
the one to
check is /usr/share/tclscripts and
/usr/share/tclscripts/mged |
| 12:34.08 |
brlcad |
is there a
/usr/share/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl ? |
| 12:34.08 |
brlcad |
(that's where
the "gui" command is) |
| 12:35.04 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mater.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of
mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. fixes
assumption that there's a /tmp and that we can write to C:\ on
windows and keeps track of the temp file better |
| 12:35.05 |
brlcad |
ouch |
| 12:35.07 |
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| 13:06.07 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of
mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. fixes
directory assumptions and cleans up temp file creation
some |
| 13:12.15 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (tedit.c utility1.c): more usage of
bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized
temp file management. |
| 13:16.04 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg |
| 13:16.32 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
hope you can play Ogg Theora since the MPEG4 encoder misfits the
sound to the picture |
| 13:21.01 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: it's
a preview. There are still some anomalies but of a minor
character. |
| 13:22.02 |
Defcon |
.ogg is music
eejh |
| 13:22.30 |
Z80-Boy |
Defcon: also
Theora, the video codec. |
| 13:23.19 |
Defcon |
ah |
| 13:23.23 |
Defcon |
that's
stupid |
| 13:23.24 |
Defcon |
:) |
| 13:23.45 |
Defcon |
ppl should
make unique file extensions |
| 13:24.59 |
Z80-Boy |
.ogg is
unique. It's for the Ogg container format. |
| 13:25.56 |
Defcon |
yeah |
| 13:26.08 |
Defcon |
but it can
contain both music & video |
| 13:26.15 |
Defcon |
or
what? |
| 13:26.49 |
Z80-Boy |
It contains
Theora video and Vorbis audio |
| 13:31.59 |
Defcon |
yes |
| 13:32.35 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer need TMP_MAX_S
or mktemp with the latest bu_temp_file() implementation |
| 13:33.04 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: a_overlap isn't identical
to a_multioverlap -- one too many struct partitions |
| 13:34.21 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/do_options.c: use bu_temp_file() for
the batch file instead of assumping /tmp |
| 13:53.03 |
CIA-42 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: typo |
| 14:15.58 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy:
that's pretty cool, nice work |
| 14:16.46 |
brlcad |
interesting,
quicktime actually did just fine decoding the file, whereas mplayer
seems to presume it's audio-only |
| 14:17.58 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
thanks |
| 14:18.09 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: my
mplayer can play it |
| 14:39.33 |
``Erik |
brlcad, are
you in today? we're doing korean... |
| 14:47.26 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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| 14:49.49 |
Defcon |
"we're doing
korean..." |
| 14:49.51 |
Defcon |
? |
| 14:49.55 |
Defcon |
sounds
dirty |
| 14:51.32 |
Z80-Boy |
How to cope
with death? Behave in a way than on your death bed you can say to
yourself "good that this man is already going to disappear from the
face of the Earth" ;-) |
| 14:54.21 |
``Erik |
you don't
disappear, you just change roles.... "worm food" is a glorious
duty! |
| 14:54.33 |
Z80-Boy |
you just turn
into thousand worms |
| 14:54.44 |
Z80-Boy |
like my
garbage grows little wings and starts to fly around the
kitchen |
| 14:55.00 |
Z80-Boy |
thanks to the
genetic code of drosophila melanogaster |
| 14:55.08 |
Z80-Boy |
fruit
fly |
| 14:55.38 |
Z80-Boy |
do you think
it's immoral to work for google when google does a censorship of
search results in China? |
| 14:56.26 |
alex_joni |
Z80-Boy: only
if you're chinese or a resident in china |
| 14:56.30 |
``Erik |
no more than
it is to use google... |
| 14:57.13 |
``Erik |
hell, I think
the us gov't is full of bunk and immorality, but I still work for
'em... I just try to do what I can to make things a little better
where I can *shrug* :) |
| 14:58.27 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: don't
you get minus points for social skills if you talk like this about
them? |
| 14:59.15 |
``Erik |
mebbe |
| 14:59.19 |
``Erik |
but, uh, I
don't give a fuck |
| 14:59.19 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 14:59.20 |
Z80-Boy |
Google has
headquarters in Mountain View |
| 14:59.30 |
Z80-Boy |
How far is it
from there to the closest surf spot? |
| 14:59.43 |
``Erik |
um, very
close? the uhhh |
| 14:59.50 |
Z80-Boy |
That might
make them less imooral :D |
| 14:59.58 |
``Erik |
there's a
famous beach like 20km west |
| 15:00.05 |
Z80-Boy |
20km that's
great :) |
| 15:00.11 |
``Erik |
mebbe a
little more |
| 15:00.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Santa Cruz?
The Surf City? |
| 15:00.33 |
Z80-Boy |
20km then
censorship turns is a beacon of democracy |
| 15:00.50 |
Z80-Boy |
especially if
they have nice waves peeling slanted to the beach |
| 15:00.54 |
Z80-Boy |
and good
sandbanks :) |
| 15:00.59 |
``Erik |
santa crus is
like 20km south |
| 15:01.14 |
``Erik |
just down
highway 17 |
| 15:01.46 |
``Erik |
erm, more
than 20km, sorry |
| 15:01.57 |
``Erik |
35 miles,
55km |
| 15:02.06 |
Z80-Boy |
but the beach
is 20km west? |
| 15:02.21 |
Z80-Boy |
And Santa
Cruz there are skaters too |
| 15:02.37 |
``Erik |
wow, google
maps gives some lame directions |
| 15:02.52 |
``Erik |
it looks like
20km "as the crow flies", but 55 by road, up through san
mateo |
| 15:03.19 |
``Erik |
and if you
moved there, you'd probably get an apt between work and the beach,
so ... :D |
| 15:03.25 |
Z80-Boy |
Whatever
that's still fine |
| 15:03.30 |
Z80-Boy |
apt
==? |
| 15:03.38 |
Z80-Boy |
apartment! |
| 15:03.38 |
``Erik |
apartment |
| 15:03.47 |
Z80-Boy |
No I would
live in a surf hut |
| 15:03.59 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:03.59 |
Z80-Boy |
with 100mbps
fibre optics |
| 15:04.40 |
alex_joni |
10GiGE |
| 15:04.40 |
``Erik |
I assume
you'd work more than you'd surf, so I'd assume you'd live closer to
mountain view than santa cruz, ... it might be hard to find a surf
hut in silicon valley suburbia :D |
| 15:05.06 |
Z80-Boy |
I could type
while waiting for a wave |
| 15:05.44 |
``Erik |
heh, you
should work at the google center in ireland :D catch some cold
waves up there between beers ;) |
| 15:05.55 |
Z80-Boy |
catch some
cold, period? |
| 15:06.13 |
Z80-Boy |
Mountain View
is close to the San Francisco |
| 15:06.20 |
Z80-Boy |
That has an
apparent advantage for me :) |
| 15:06.21 |
``Erik |
yes, it's on
the bay |
| 15:06.28 |
Z80-Boy |
gay
bay |
| 15:06.42 |
``Erik |
the san
fagcisco bay, yes |
| 15:06.43 |
``Erik |
O:-) |
| 15:06.53 |
Z80-Boy |
lol |
| 15:09.59 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: do
you think my video could be used as a demo video on the new brlcad
web pages? |
| 15:22.32 |
``Erik |
is it that
one with just the plane fly-around? |
| 15:23.22 |
``Erik |
there, uh, is
something ummm, "tracker" or something, that allows bezier splines
to be used as "paths" for animations, I THINK... O.o I noticed it
in the clone code, d'no if it works, if it's what I think it is, or
how to use it... :D |
| 15:25.33 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik:
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg
no it's not plane fly-around |
| 15:26.36 |
``Erik |
huh, I
thought ogg was an audio format |
| 15:26.42 |
``Erik |
the vorbis
video was theora, I thought |
| 15:27.03 |
Z80-Boy |
the modern
video players should be able to play it |
| 15:27.16 |
``Erik |
or mebbe I'm
backwards |
| 15:27.25 |
Z80-Boy |
I wanted to
make it in MPEG4 but my encoder slips the audio and video against
each other |
| 15:27.27 |
``Erik |
mebbe ogg is
the umbrella and vorbis is the audio component |
| 15:27.50 |
Z80-Boy |
ogg is the
container vorbis audio and theora video |
| 15:28.08 |
``Erik |
xiph needs a
better "for retards" page, so folk like me can keep up
:D |
| 15:28.48 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: you
mean "better ergonomy"? :) |
| 15:29.19 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't think
one is a retard just because he doesn't want to spend unnecessary
time on researching what should be written on the title
page |
| 15:29.46 |
``Erik |
well |
| 15:29.58 |
Z80-Boy |
I think it's
their fault not yours ;-) |
| 15:30.05 |
``Erik |
I did
research the audio side when I was interested in writing an
icecast/shoutcast streamer client... |
| 15:30.06 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:30.17 |
``Erik |
so I shoulda
known that |
| 15:31.11 |
Z80-Boy |
Recent
mplayer compiled having libtheora and libvorbis and libogg
installed should play it |
| 15:31.17 |
``Erik |
hrmmmmm, I
have VLC, it plays it |
| 15:31.20 |
Z80-Boy |
I compiled a
mplayer myself and it works with Theora fine |
| 15:31.21 |
``Erik |
um |
| 15:31.23 |
Z80-Boy |
great! |
| 15:31.38 |
``Erik |
have you
thought about re-rendering those in perspective mode? |
| 15:31.46 |
``Erik |
ortho looks
weird animated |
| 15:31.47 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 15:31.49 |
Z80-Boy |
should
I? |
| 15:32.09 |
Z80-Boy |
It's just a
matter of adding a parameter to the rt call isn't it? |
| 15:32.17 |
``Erik |
yeah, like
-p<fov> or something |
| 15:32.29 |
Z80-Boy |
what fov do
you recommend? |
| 15:32.36 |
Z80-Boy |
Have you seen
the brl-cad logo in the end titles? |
| 15:32.41 |
``Erik |
also; you can
set up the frame size to be non-square |
| 15:32.44 |
``Erik |
no, I'm at
2:10 |
| 15:32.57 |
Z80-Boy |
768x576? |
| 15:33.14 |
``Erik |
you could do
that size... :) |
| 15:33.31 |
Z80-Boy |
or
640x480 |
| 15:33.31 |
``Erik |
typically,
movies are 4:3 or 16:9, *shrug* :) |
| 15:33.58 |
``Erik |
cool
stuff |
| 15:34.13 |
Z80-Boy |
thanks |
| 15:34.39 |
``Erik |
um, as far as
fov, probably something in the 60-90 range |
| 15:34.40 |
Z80-Boy |
do you think
it would be better to replace the black background with some
impressive photos from Ronja? |
| 15:34.49 |
Z80-Boy |
Laser beams
over roofs, welding sparks etc.? |
| 15:35.43 |
Z80-Boy |
A different
background for each shot? |
| 15:38.54 |
``Erik |
stupid
intarweb |
| 15:39.06 |
``Erik |
um, if the
point is to show off the pieces, background images would just
distract, no? |
| 15:39.23 |
Z80-Boy |
those
internets! a satellite will fall upon us because of that and
everything will be over! |
| 15:39.37 |
Z80-Boy |
maybe? |
| 15:40.02 |
Z80-Boy |
Or I thought
about more neutral background images, like a picture of various
cracks and spots of dirt on walls, curbs etc. |
| 15:40.15 |
Z80-Boy |
with a
hand-scratched name of the component over it at the bottom or the
top |
| 15:40.27 |
Z80-Boy |
this looks
too introvertistick |
| 15:40.36 |
Z80-Boy |
too
geeky |
| 15:40.47 |
Z80-Boy |
too
organized |
| 15:40.50 |
Z80-Boy |
too
intelligent |
| 15:41.00 |
Z80-Boy |
too boring,
nerdy, ... ;-) |
| 15:41.03 |
Z80-Boy |
Don't you
think? |
| 15:41.39 |
``Erik |
*shrug* I
d'no, I don't do visual art shtuff |
| 15:42.06 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't do
either, but I want my video to look attractive :) |
| 15:42.45 |
``Erik |
I have a
friend that does freelance work on that kinda stuff, but I doubt
you'd want to pay for help ;) *shrug* aint' my scene,
though |
| 15:42.57 |
Z80-Boy |
No Ronja is
for free |
| 15:43.53 |
``Erik |
next time I
talk to phil, I'll mention it *shrug* mebbe he'd to it for free to
have something to put in his portfolio *shrug* |
| 15:45.24 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: I
was thinking something along those lines (demo video on new
site) |
| 15:45.58 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
tracker actually duplicates geometry along a spline path (like tank
treads) |
| 15:46.15 |
brlcad |
there's a
different anim_track tool for bezier animation paths |
| 15:46.27 |
brlcad |
prolly
getting the two confused |
| 15:46.27 |
``Erik |
oh,
okie |
| 15:47.20 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
should I be extroverted and mix background using background RGB
combo or do it properly and use the ray hit distance and write own
C utility for that? :D |
| 15:47.31 |
``Erik |
heh, how's
the soup treatin' ya, dude? :> |
| 15:48.52 |
brlcad |
I've been
eating pretty normal |
| 15:49.04 |
brlcad |
just slower
and less |
| 15:49.18 |
``Erik |
cool, which
two did you get knocked out? both the tops? |
| 15:49.48 |
Z80-Boy |
Wohoo, Virgin
Classic Rock playing Hendrix :) |
| 15:49.48 |
brlcad |
left
side |
| 15:49.56 |
brlcad |
so I can
still chew on right somewhat |
| 15:50.01 |
``Erik |
think you
could deal with korean? |
| 15:50.06 |
brlcad |
prolly
not |
| 15:50.09 |
``Erik |
aight |
| 15:50.26 |
``Erik |
gonna do the
other two in a week or two? |
| 15:50.31 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it true
that Americans are more extroverted than the European? |
| 15:50.32 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: mix
what with what? |
| 15:50.46 |
brlcad |
other two at
end of Jan |
| 15:50.50 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: put a
background on my rendered videos |
| 15:53.17 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-3
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:56.46 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 15:58.40 |
``Erik |
prasad,
talked to mm this morning, he's still working on getting the data
for his thesis all together... hasn't even written the thing yet
:) |
| 16:00.39 |
``Erik |
kebert
xela. |
| 16:02.22 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: mm,
i'd just use the background pixel value (that's part of why that
0,0,-1 exists, for blending/background detection) |
| 16:02.36 |
brlcad |
er,
0,0,1 |
| 16:03.32 |
Z80-Boy |
but if I have
dark blue in my model, it gets dithered either into 0,0,0 or
0,0,2? |
| 16:03.50 |
brlcad |
dithered? |
| 16:03.54 |
brlcad |
you have
something dithering? |
| 16:04.03 |
Z80-Boy |
whatever |
| 16:04.14 |
Z80-Boy |
how does
background color from model color distinguished? |
| 16:04.15 |
brlcad |
i'd do the
merge before building the animation |
| 16:04.55 |
Z80-Boy |
that's what I
mean |
| 16:04.59 |
Z80-Boy |
rt and then
do a merge |
| 16:05.09 |
Z80-Boy |
but what if a
pixel in the model happens to raytrace to 0,0,1? |
| 16:05.22 |
Z80-Boy |
then I will
have a little hole in the model? |
| 16:05.59 |
brlcad |
yes, that is
conceivable, regardless of the background pixel color |
| 16:06.13 |
brlcad |
just the
nature of reserving a value for the mask, since there is no alpha
channel |
| 16:06.48 |
brlcad |
though for
any real model, you're exceptionally not likely to get
0,0,1 |
| 16:07.22 |
brlcad |
if you want
to be sure and get a perfect mask, you could create a top-level
combination that uses the flat shader |
| 16:07.33 |
brlcad |
that'll give
you a perfect mask using whatever values you choose |
| 16:08.57 |
``Erik |
brlcad, got a
question from dave |
| 16:09.48 |
``Erik |
is there a
way in mged to see which combinations contain a specified
region? |
| 16:10.24 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: but
then I have to perform another render using this flat shader
right? |
| 16:10.53 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
would rather turn on distance reporting and make a script that
extracts and masks from the output - that requires only one
render. |
| 16:23.55 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: yes,
you could turn on the distance reporting, but on a per-pixel basis
it should actually be faster to render twice than do all that
I/O |
| 16:24.14 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: I
doubt |
| 16:24.21 |
brlcad |
``Erik:
yes |
| 16:24.34 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad:
rendering takes substantial time |
| 16:25.25 |
brlcad |
the flat
shader is the fastest shader, should be substantially
faster |
| 16:26.12 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: but
it also needs to order those binary logical operation
trees |
| 16:26.19 |
Z80-Boy |
which
probably cause the 210x slowdown |
| 16:26.30 |
Z80-Boy |
so instead of
210x I'll get 420x 8-I |
| 16:28.38 |
brlcad |
they don't
"probably" cause it, the boolean operations are what cause it to go
slower |
| 16:28.46 |
brlcad |
didn't you
read the response to your bug report? :) |
| 16:29.30 |
brlcad |
either way,
just a suggestion |
| 16:29.42 |
brlcad |
so go the
scripting route, that should work just as well |
| 16:29.53 |
Z80-Boy |
maybe not I
got rid of my e-mail |
| 16:30.03 |
Z80-Boy |
actually I
redirected it so I should have read it |
| 16:30.13 |
Z80-Boy |
But I don't
remember |
| 16:33.44 |
brlcad |
``Erik: tell
him to check out the quick ref card, geometry information section
.. dbfind and dbfindtree |
| 16:38.25 |
Z80-Boy |
``Erik: isn't
your last name Allman? |
| 16:41.43 |
prasad_ |
all man
indeed |
| 16:43.15 |
prasad_ |
i gave boids
guns for my final project - brian would be proud :) |
| 16:51.21 |
Maloeran |
In wxwidgets,
would anyone happen to quickly know what would be the proper widget
to render 2d stuff directly in the native format? |
| 16:51.49 |
Maloeran |
wxImage and
friends expect 24 bits RGB data, which may imply
conversion |
| 17:10.35 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54874ED8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:48.28 |
*** join/#brlcad Toba__
(n=eastein@RESURRECTION.RES.WPI.NET) |
| 19:15.13 |
``Erik |
heh, no, if I
write anything as ugly as sendmail, shoot me :D |
| 19:15.29 |
``Erik |
also; not
gay, ktnx :D |
| 19:22.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-88-172.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:22.26 |
``Erik |
doh, he
wasn't evne here to see it |
| 19:52.15 |
*** join/#brlcad dli
(n=dli@wireless-197-40.uchicago.edu) |
| 19:59.00 |
*** join/#brlcad JJLopez
(n=c86cd772@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:00.36 |
brlcad |
hello
JJLopez |
| 20:06.22 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.117.211) |
| 20:18.39 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic_
(n=docelic@77.237.98.228) |
| 20:35.44 |
yukonbob |
Z80-Boy: cool
video :) |
| 20:37.42 |
Z80-Boy |
yukonbob:
thanks |
| 20:48.41 |
yukonbob |
Z80-Boy: what
did you use to generate the first fades? |
| 20:48.51 |
yukonbob |
(blurs) |
| 20:53.56 |
dli |
do I need 3D
support from the video card? |
| 20:54.28 |
dli |
the driver
doesn't have 3D acceleration yet |
| 20:55.31 |
``Erik |
no |
| 20:56.07 |
Z80-Boy |
yukonbob: a
custom written algorithm |
| 20:56.10 |
``Erik |
and the
"opengl" output display is no faster than the X output, due to the
way it's used |
| 20:56.34 |
Z80-Boy |
yukonbob:
http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/wave.c |
| 20:56.47 |
dli |
``Erik,
thanks |
| 21:15.50 |
brlcad |
ahh, libpng
1.2.24 |
| 21:17.23 |
brlcad |
woo hoo,
we're now back to a fully warning-free build (aside from
src/other) |
| 21:17.45 |
brlcad |
soon as I can
verify a couple other platforms, we can bump the warning level up a
notch |
| 21:17.52 |
``Erik |
w00t |
| 21:17.59 |
``Erik |
-W -Wall
-Werror -ansi -pedantic |
| 21:17.59 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 21:18.10 |
brlcad |
Werror won't
work |
| 21:18.13 |
brlcad |
cause of
src/other |
| 21:18.22 |
``Erik |
yeah, well,
src/other is a bitch :D |
| 21:18.32 |
``Erik |
and it'll
work if you use the system installs of everything |
| 21:18.40 |
``Erik |
debian
testing just added tcl/tk 85 |
| 21:20.14 |
``Erik |
javascript
might be making me EVEN MORE retarded (I know, ya'll thought that
was impossible, but here we are) |
| 21:20.47 |
dli |
tcl and
tk-8.5-beta3 all in gentoo now, can I build brlcad against them
now? |
| 21:22.45 |
louipc |
I used
tcl8.5b2 withouth problem, though archer doesn't like that
version |
| 21:23.08 |
brlcad |
i don't
believe head is currently functional, particularly wrt incr --
haven't fixed the searching yet |
| 21:23.30 |
brlcad |
will take a
few days to sort out |
| 22:08.51 |
``Erik |
"occam's
space laser" |
| 22:11.02 |
alex_joni |
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=387489&cid=21679547 |
| 22:36.45 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:37.44 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/hotstuff.png
<--- a 10hour build and i got this :) |
| 22:38.05 |
IriX64 |
sorry poolio,
it's another helicopter :) |
| 22:40.54 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.104.190) |
| 22:45.22 |
*** join/#brlcad Twingy
(n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 22:57.31 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic_
(n=docelic@77.237.110.214) |
| 00:45.11 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 01:22.23 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:23.45 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/js9SlQ72.html
<---- runtime, dunno what this is all about |
| 03:19.14 |
*** join/#brlcad IriX64
(n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:19.49 |
IriX64 |
http://rafb.net/p/MtYMIK52.html
<---- works guys :) |
| 03:22.17 |
IriX64 |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/black.png
<--- heres what that shot produced |
| 04:13.13 |
Toba |
helicopter! |
| 04:28.53 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-4
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 04:41.11 |
brlcad |
woot,
yukonbob |
| 04:56.59 |
dtidrow |
evening,
brlcad |
| 05:09.27 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't need
HAVE_MATHERR |
| 05:10.14 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/anal.c: remove the old acos() hack to
quell implementation errors by overriding matherr() |
| 05:18.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (Makefile.am sqrt.gould.s
sqrt.vax.s): |
| 05:18.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
remove the unused assembler sqrt() implementations for the gould
and vax. |
| 05:18.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
relinquish to the bowels of revision history until there is (ever)
a need to |
| 05:18.07 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
properly reintegrate into the build (where they probably belong in
libbn) |
| 05:23.39 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libtool on mac chokes on the
-bind_at_load, get rid of it |
| 05:38.25 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer need
HAVE_TMPFILE_S, no longer using tmpfile_s() |
| 05:40.02 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer using tmpfile_s(),
don't check for it |
| 05:43.09 |
CIA-4 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: we don't use ftime() |
| 05:46.01 |
yukonbob |
evening,
cadheads |
| 05:51.49 |
dtidrow |
okay, so
what's the program for displaying .pix images? |
| 05:52.30 |
yukonbob |
pix-png,
favourite .png viewer. |
| 05:52.55 |
dtidrow |
pix-png
converts them to png's? |
| 05:53.07 |
yukonbob |
heh -- truth
in advertising. |
| 05:53.55 |
dtidrow |
thought there
was a viewer for pix in brl-cad somewhere... |
| 05:55.39 |
dtidrow |
you would
think there would be one, since .pix isn't a standard
format |
| 05:56.28 |
yukonbob |
well, there
are converters |
| 05:57.58 |
dtidrow |
there's
probably a way to run the fb app and load a pix into that, I just
don't know enough about brl-cad yet to do that |
| 05:58.19 |
yukonbob |
oh sure --
pix-fb |
| 05:58.29 |
dtidrow |
though
"pix-png moss.pix > moss.png" works |
| 05:59.04 |
dtidrow |
well, I tried
that first (pix-fb) - do you need an existing fb
running? |
| 05:59.18 |
dtidrow |
wild guesses
here ;-) |
| 05:59.40 |
dtidrow |
I'll just
convert them to png's... |
| 06:05.42 |
brlcad |
pix-fb |
| 06:06.37 |
brlcad |
if you're pre
7.10.4, it's pix-fb -F/dev/Xl file.pix |
| 06:06.48 |
brlcad |
7.10.4 and
later, it's just pix-fb file.pix |
| 06:07.06 |
brlcad |
I made
lingering default |
| 06:07.18 |
dtidrow |
ah - still
have 7.10.0 |
| 06:07.53 |
brlcad |
you can run
your own framebuffer server via fbserv, but that's mostly if you
want to do multiple processing steps and/or read/write pixels
instead of just display them |
| 06:08.25 |
dtidrow |
/dev/Xl? |
| 06:08.47 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 06:09.12 |
brlcad |
that means
use the "X framebuffer device" with the "l" linger
option |
| 06:09.22 |
brlcad |
(nothing to
do with the /dev filesystem) |
| 06:09.56 |
brlcad |
fun "fbhelp"
and it'll describe what framebuffer devices you have
available |
| 06:10.12 |
dtidrow |
ah - that's
more like it |
| 06:10.41 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: do
you think that syntax (/dev/Xl) is worth visiting, for it's
confusion w/ /dev/ filesystems on *nix boxes, or would it be too
big a deal wrt backward compat.? |
| 06:10.55 |
brlcad |
pix files are
"raw" so if it's not the default 512x512, you have to specify
dimensions |
| 06:11.25 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
backwards compat is the primary reason it's not changed |
| 06:11.27 |
dtidrow |
I just wanted
to look at the results of the benchmark runs |
| 06:12.18 |
dtidrow |
yukonbob:
yep, that's what I was thinking - didn't see 'Xl' in /dev
anywhere... |
| 06:12.40 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
otherwise it would have likely changed a long time ago, and it's
been a really minor point -- after you learn once and then you
pretty much know |
| 06:13.08 |
dtidrow |
it's there to
confuse n00bs.... |
| 06:13.10 |
dtidrow |
;-) |
| 06:13.17 |
brlcad |
yeah, it's
one of about a dozen of the FAQ newbie questions and areas of
confusion that would be good to get rid of for 8.0 |
| 06:13.20 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: /me
notes that Tcl has a "Tcl 9 wishlist" where wishes that will break
backward compatibility are entertained -- perhaps something like
that for BRLCAD 8? |
| 06:13.41 |
brlcad |
already have
that wishlist, it's in the todo |
| 06:13.53 |
brlcad |
at least for
the "important" ones |
| 06:15.29 |
dtidrow |
brlcad: 'rt'
is the main raytracer executable, right? |
| 06:15.38 |
brlcad |
yukonbob:
also plan to get started on some of those backwards-breaking topics
on a branch after the move to svn |
| 06:15.42 |
brlcad |
dtidrow:
yep |
| 06:17.11 |
brlcad |
lingering
framebuffer windows was another FAQ newbie item that has been
requested for about two decades... but I figured out a way to
implement it and retain backwards compatibility, so it made the
minor update |
| 06:18.25 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: /me
was re-introduced to the "chromium" project again today -- you
aware of it? |
| 06:21.05 |
dtidrow |
brlcad:
http://www.yafray.org/ - any
knowledge of this? |
| 06:23.42 |
brlcad |
yukonbob: hm,
not intimately, but I was reading about them about a week or two
ago |
| 06:24.00 |
brlcad |
dtidrow:
quite familiar with yafray |
| 06:24.19 |
brlcad |
he's usually
at siggraph |
| 06:24.19 |
dtidrow |
opinion/comments? |
| 06:25.20 |
brlcad |
it's a pretty
decent optical renderer, really decent global illumination
modes |
| 06:25.58 |
brlcad |
performance
is a bit teh suck and it doesn't deal with solid geometry, but it
does the trick for visualization purposes pretty
slickly |
| 06:26.33 |
brlcad |
blender
shelved their (horrible) ray-tracer for yafray a couple years
ago |
| 06:26.38 |
yukonbob |
"doesn't deal
w/ solid geom." -- you mean shooting rays and getting xrays, or
collision detection? |
| 06:27.28 |
brlcad |
full
shotline, proper inside/outside detection all the way along the ray
-- for non-optical purposes |
| 06:28.12 |
yukonbob |
but it's an
option for visually rendering, esp if one wants more than 16 light
sources, correct? |
| 06:28.36 |
brlcad |
it's a great
option for visual rendering |
| 06:29.27 |
brlcad |
for the new
solid modeler interface, I'm hoping to sort out the interface so
that different ray-tracers can be used -- yafray and povray would
be near top of my list of the first to hook in |
| 06:29.41 |
yukonbob |
nice |
| 06:30.10 |
dtidrow |
what year did
brl-cad get open-sourced, anyway? |
| 06:30.14 |
yukonbob |
would that be
a batch-oriented .tmp files and call-out to the respective tracers,
or linking them in as libs? |
| 06:31.19 |
brlcad |
dtidrow:
we're about a week away from the three years
anniversary |
| 06:31.53 |
dtidrow |
'04? hmmm,
thought it was earlier than that |
| 06:32.06 |
dtidrow |
memory gets
fuzzy with age... :-\ |
| 06:32.33 |
brlcad |
yukonbo:
probably batch oriented with some sort of compiled plugin-in
frontend that would have knowledge how to prepare/convert data into
their format |
| 06:33.30 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: that
was my first instinctual idea... |
| 06:33.36 |
brlcad |
as a lib
would be possible, but probably a LOT more work |
| 06:33.45 |
yukonbob |
<PROTECTED> |
| 06:33.59 |
yukonbob |
povray ==
weird license because it's soo old. |
| 06:34.10 |
brlcad |
yeah,
povray's a problem that way |
| 06:34.27 |
yukonbob |
batching
makes sense for a few reasons, though... |
| 06:34.40 |
brlcad |
that may be a
non-starter for povray, but that would be something to look into
down the road |
| 06:35.49 |
yukonbob |
a g-pov,
g-yafray, etc., etc. could potentially do the trick, and then let a
person setup their own cameras/perspectives, no? |
| 06:37.07 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 06:38.09 |
yukonbob |
mmm... maybe
my lex/yacc studies will lead to assiting on this... |
| 06:38.17 |
brlcad |
you can fake
pipe's with other cylinders and torii |
| 06:38.21 |
yukonbob |
*assisting |
| 06:38.34 |
brlcad |
cool |
| 06:38.46 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: re:
cylinders + torii, I guess that's where the heavy lifting occurs
;) |
| 06:40.34 |
brlcad |
povray's
actually one of the closest matches to us |
| 06:40.57 |
brlcad |
since they do
have many of the same implicits and actually do a lot of the same
implicit evaluation |
| 06:41.11 |
brlcad |
they have a
few we don't have, we have a few they don't have |
| 06:43.05 |
yukonbob |
pipe is esp
vexing though, considering bending + radiuses (radii?), and
growing/shrinking internal/external radiuses along the length of
the pipe... |
| 06:44.04 |
brlcad |
the internal
is really just a CSG subtracted inner-pipe |
| 06:44.18 |
brlcad |
so if you
implement one, you have the same logic for the inside |
| 06:45.33 |
yukonbob |
right, but
the differences between the transitions are nice + smooth, and
still perhaps occurring around a bend, which would be like wrapping
a truncated cone inside a bent cylinder/torus in
povray.... |
| 06:46.23 |
brlcad |
povray has a
tgc too iirc |
| 06:46.29 |
yukonbob |
how tough
would it be to take the extrude 3d and make a lathe-like function
for brlcad, a la povray? |
| 06:46.59 |
yukonbob |
re: tgc, but
around a bend? |
| 06:47.09 |
brlcad |
bends are
torus |
| 06:47.45 |
brlcad |
that's
internally how our pipe does it -- tgc and torii
segments |
| 06:48.25 |
yukonbob |
ok -- so can
the inside dia. of a pipe change while it's bending a
curve? |
| 06:48.41 |
yukonbob |
or outside,
for that matter... makes no difference. |
| 06:49.15 |
brlcad |
I believe it
can, but I frankly don't recall |
| 06:49.37 |
brlcad |
basically a
more generalized torus form |
| 06:52.34 |
brlcad |
i know what
you mean, it'd be a matter of seeing 1) if we allow the torus to
"pinch" or not and if we do, how it's implemented and then 2) what
that most closely translates to in pov |
| 06:53.21 |
brlcad |
for the most
part, that would be very much an "edge" case that you could just
check and say "oops, can't handle this" .. pipes with bend radius
changes on the bend are not the common case |
| 06:53.34 |
yukonbob |
... the whole
idea (of various converters) sounds _really_ cool -- a good way to
visit all the elems of BRLCAD, and see how other people are doing
things, maybe refactor, etc., etc. |
| 06:54.31 |
brlcad |
yeah, one of
my "big-idea" projects that I've been working towards is making a
"universal converter" library given we support more formats than
almost anyone except the commercial engines |
| 06:54.48 |
yukonbob |
librosetta |
| 06:55.08 |
yukonbob |
^--- probably
used by everybody else that thinks they're great translators
;) |
| 06:55.11 |
brlcad |
hah |
| 06:55.21 |
brlcad |
i have a
stickie on my desktop with various names for the
library |
| 06:55.21 |
yukonbob |
lol |
| 06:55.30 |
brlcad |
librosetta is
one of them :) |
| 06:56.01 |
brlcad |
libbgc
libgconv libg2g |
| 06:56.09 |
yukonbob |
heh -- we'll
have to think of some more interesting obscure reference -- maybe
one degree of seperation -- libdeadsea |
| 06:56.47 |
yukonbob |
^--- add to
stickies |
| 06:57.31 |
brlcad |
the only
confusion with rosetta is the Mac OS X binary conversion layer of
the same name |
| 06:58.07 |
yukonbob |
libdeadc,
libdedc... |
| 06:58.30 |
yukonbob |
libdedc -- a
bacronym -- DEcode Do Conversion |
| 07:05.06 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753883.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:08.17 |
brlcad |
TRCPY\|STRCSPN\|STRERROR\|STRPBRK\|STRRCHR\|STRSPN\|STRSTR\|STRTOK\)' |
| 07:12.03 |
brlcad |
(speeding up
configure by eliminating tests we can (hopefully) now
avoid) |
| 07:15.01 |
brlcad |
not one in
use, sweet |
| 07:17.44 |
brlcad |
ahh, take
that back .. culled too much |
| 07:30.26 |
brlcad |
nah, they're
not expensive .. just c89 function calls that configure checks for
which it doesn't need to for most of them |
| 07:30.34 |
brlcad |
the calls are
just standard library calls |
| 07:37.52 |
louipc |
mornin |
| 07:54.42 |
brlcad |
howdy
louipc |
| 08:02.47 |
louipc |
how are the
plans for moving brl-cad to svn? |
| 08:19.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-93-24.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:28.13 |
yukonbob |
nn
#brlcad |
| 08:28.27 |
louipc |
bye |
| 08:32.55 |
brlcad |
louipc: erm,
unchanged .. still going to happen |
| 08:34.22 |
Axman6 |
brlcad: isn't
it supposed to be pretty easy? |
| 08:34.56 |
louipc |
hey have you
guys ever used git? |
| 08:35.28 |
Axman6 |
git sounds...
interesting |
| 08:35.40 |
louipc |
it's
awesome |
| 08:36.04 |
Axman6 |
sounds like a
nice idea, but not an idea that sits well in my brain |
| 08:36.14 |
louipc |
why's
that? |
| 08:38.19 |
louipc |
git can kind
of work with svn as well |
| 08:40.16 |
Axman6 |
i watched the
google tech talk about it with linus. he's a nutjob |
| 08:40.37 |
louipc |
oh yeah
haha |
| 08:43.26 |
louipc |
I like how
you can go totally nuts with your local copy in git and commit, and
merge branches, and it's OK nobody sees all that insanity from you
if they don't want to |
| 08:45.30 |
brlcad |
Axman6: it's
usually fairly easy, but certainly not turn-key .. especially for a
repository as extensive as brl-cad's |
| 08:46.02 |
brlcad |
louipc: yes,
and you've mentioned it .. like four times now? :P |
| 08:46.42 |
louipc |
i have? I
must have mistaken this for another channel then doh |
| 08:47.36 |
brlcad |
git or not,
distributed works well for some things and horrible for
others |
| 08:48.03 |
brlcad |
it's far from
a panacea |
| 08:48.12 |
louipc |
or I just
have an odd memory |
| 08:48.32 |
louipc |
yeah
true |
| 08:49.47 |
brlcad |
you could
just as well argue that seeing that hiding that "insanity", as you
put it, is very much a bad thing |
| 08:50.19 |
brlcad |
particularly
if you're collaborating among few and keeping consensus on
development directions |
| 08:51.03 |
brlcad |
you often
*want* to see the steps taken to get to a given result, regardless
of the method and num of intermediate steps |
| 08:51.05 |
louipc |
well what you
should end up after the insanity is a clean straight-forward set of
patches |
| 08:51.52 |
brlcad |
you end up
with that end-result distributed or not -- the point is the
desirability for seeing the steps that got you there
too |
| 08:52.16 |
brlcad |
centralized
encourages that transparency, distributed lets you hide it (or not)
-- it's a tradeoff |
| 08:52.34 |
louipc |
yeah if there
are only a few devs then they're probably going to want to see it
anyways |
| 08:53.47 |
brlcad |
yep, very
dependendent on the dev structure, number of devs, visibility and
collaboration prefs, user-community expectations, etc |
| 08:55.06 |
louipc |
git doesn't
work too well when the lead guy is too busy with other things and
doesn't pull anything, when everyone else is hacking like
crazy |
| 08:55.19 |
brlcad |
distributed
really starts to pay off when the centralized structure becomes a
bottleneck administratively (which usually happens after you have
hundreds of devs) |
| 08:55.46 |
Axman6 |
like the
kernel |
| 08:55.52 |
brlcad |
yeah, you can
set up git in just as brain-dead development-hindering ways as a
centralized repo :) |
| 09:19.34 |
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| 17:21.03 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: raise() works on windows
and is c89, so bye bye |
| 17:35.19 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54876A3C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:56.58 |
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| 18:02.38 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: raise() works on windows and is
c89, so bye bye |
| 18:04.06 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: strdup and strsep don't seem to
be c89 |
| 20:14.39 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/libpkg/pkg.c): get rid of
our single use of strerror_r, minimize checks |
| 20:30.13 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 20:30.15 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
remove a whole bunch of function checks that can be taken for
granted since c89 |
| 20:30.17 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
provides for them. all of these functions are apparently not even
used (any |
| 20:30.19 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
more) via HAVE_ decls regardless. removing the checks reduces
configure time |
| 20:30.21 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
signficantly. function checks removed include atexit, fabs, floor,
memchr, |
| 20:30.25 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
memmove, modf, pow, setlocale, sqrt, strcpy, strcspn, strpbrk,
strrchr, strspn, |
| 20:30.27 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
strstr, strtol, strtoul, strtoull |
| 20:45.30 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: comment consistency |
| 21:10.20 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: list the POSIX.1 headers too for
good measure |
| 21:18.46 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03bharder * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Working with new
processing to facilitate img handling, re-worked <link> and
<xref>, minor formatting. |
| 21:30.00 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03bharder * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Previous commit also
re-worked the placement of authorship from <title> to
<bookinfo> and the dedication from <prolog> to
<dedication> -- not sure about the <author> change...
will need to keep eye on this. |
| 21:32.32 |
brlcad |
woot |
| 21:37.16 |
brlcad |
if we get a
hundred active devs, I'd be much more fond of it ;) |
| 21:38.21 |
yukonbob |
does Bob do
his development on Windows, though? |
| 21:38.27 |
brlcad |
yep |
| 21:38.56 |
yukonbob |
so he'd have
to use NFS, or FTP (or whatever) files to/from a POSIX box to use
git. |
| 21:39.11 |
brlcad |
as do a
couple devs in germany and netherlands |
| 21:39.44 |
brlcad |
daniel and
wim |
| 21:54.28 |
b0ef |
how about
bazaar? |
| 21:54.49 |
yukonbob |
isn't that
deprecated, in favour of arch? |
| 21:54.58 |
b0ef |
heh,
no |
| 21:55.03 |
b0ef |
bazaar-ng |
| 21:55.22 |
b0ef |
http://bazaar-vcs.org/ |
| 21:55.35 |
louipc |
ooer darn
windows! |
| 21:59.17 |
louipc |
yeah I heard
good things about mercurial too |
| 21:59.21 |
*** join/#brlcad illethal
(n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 21:59.24 |
louipc |
never used it
though |
| 21:59.38 |
illethal |
Good evening
everyone |
| 21:59.42 |
brlcad |
hello
illethal |
| 22:00.04 |
yukonbob |
it's pretty
simple... I use it instead of RCS for my local disk |
| 22:01.11 |
yukonbob |
hg init; hg
add thisfile thatfile; [edit files]; hg commit |
| 22:01.44 |
louipc |
oh yeah I've
heard syntax is similar to git |
| 22:02.15 |
b0ef |
that's how
you do it in bzr, too |
| 22:02.15 |
yukonbob |
iirc, git
uses lots of binaries to get it's job done... |
| 22:02.32 |
b0ef |
ya'll haven't
watched the git video by linus? |
| 22:02.56 |
yukonbob |
where he
calls the svn devs from google braindead? |
| 22:03.40 |
b0ef |
yeah;) |
| 22:03.40 |
yukonbob |
classy |
| 22:03.40 |
b0ef |
hehe |
| 22:03.40 |
b0ef |
<PROTECTED> |
| 22:16.41 |
yukonbob |
heh --- /me
reads a mozilla developer blog where they were testing what vc to
move to (from CVS) and importing the CVS tree->bzr took more
than a *month* of running time... |
| 22:21.06 |
louipc |
ouch |
| 22:21.17 |
louipc |
they're
moving to mercurial yeah? |
| 22:21.58 |
yukonbob |
are on it
apparently, with plan to revisit the decision in 9-12 months (from
March, I guess, when they moved). |
| 22:24.41 |
brlcad |
illethal:
what brings you around? |
| 22:31.38 |
illethal |
Got
interested in BRL Cad. |
| 22:31.39 |
illethal |
=) |
| 22:31.44 |
illethal |
I'm a 3D
graphic artist though |
| 22:31.51 |
illethal |
BRL is a
massive learning curve. |
| 22:32.12 |
yukonbob |
illethal: you
have examples of your work online? |
| 22:33.12 |
yukonbob |
hrm...
apparently FreeBSD is mercurial too... |
| 22:33.38 |
illethal |
Yeah. |
| 22:33.50 |
illethal |
http://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/oden.jpg |
| 22:34.39 |
b0ef |
illethal:
that looks excellent;) |
| 22:36.51 |
b0ef |
I'm a spline
modeler, but since I went free software fanatic, there just aren't
any free spline tools, so waiting for brl-cad;) |
| 22:37.26 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6_
(n=Axman6@210-9-138-35.netspeed.com.au) |
| 22:37.26 |
illethal |
Thanks |
| 22:37.27 |
illethal |
! |
| 23:00.35 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-29
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| 01:43.14 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: BOOL_T isn't even used any
more |
| 02:14.37 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: ws |
| 02:15.16 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer should be using
nor needing the bzero/bcopy macros -- should be using memset and
memcpy throughout now |
| 02:17.35 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (52 files in 8 dirs): removal of the FAST
declaration throughout. now using register or letting the compiler
sort things out. |
| 02:23.05 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: revert int back to BOOL,
windows thing |
| 02:32.07 |
brlcad |
ahhh...crrrrraaaaap. |
| 02:33.10 |
brlcad |
should NOT be
static .. in fact static becomes very bad on SMP machines, which
explains all these random crashes I've been having |
| 03:01.42 |
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| 03:05.36 |
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[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:13.22 |
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| 03:13.22 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by
irc.freenode.net |
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[NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 03:33.34 |
*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by
irc.freenode.net |
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| 05:54.09 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (5 files in 5 dirs): revert the
rest of the bad tclIndex files that were clobbered during the
2007/11/28 commit with log "LOCAL->static, per machine.h
deprecation list" |
| 06:03.36 |
*** join/#brlcad archivist
(n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 06:33.55 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Install.html: remove
references to LOCAL and FAST |
| 07:07.12 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
(n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 07:48.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
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| 07:53.59 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (46 files in 5 dirs): my bad deprecation
instruction, revert/remove the LOCAL -> static conversion. LOCAL
is only static for non-SMP systems, but usually auto. |
| 07:54.53 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: poof, make LOCAL go away
entirely. the deprecation instruction was wrong/bad -- LOCAL
shouldn't go to static, it just goes away (so we get
auto). |
| 08:12.43 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
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| 08:17.49 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_hf.c: remove silly rcsid
printing |
| 08:30.30 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/reflect.c: add last partition
param |
| 08:47.38 |
*** join/#brlcad Defcon
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| 13:25.25 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: time() is declared in
time.h |
| 13:34.16 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/f2a.c: bu_exit() is
declared in bu.h |
| 13:54.23 |
brlcad |
hello
d_rossberg |
| 13:56.08 |
d_rossberg |
hello
brlcad |
| 13:56.16 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: do not forget to copy
a string's terminating 0 |
| 14:08.49 |
brlcad |
hm, suppose I
should review all instances and make sure they're manually
null-terminated |
| 14:09.04 |
brlcad |
at least for
the strncat/strncpy calls |
| 14:11.03 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54875545.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:11.18 |
brlcad |
hm, which
there are 89 and 742 respectively |
| 14:11.19 |
d_rossberg |
maybe you
should write a bu_strncpy which ensures that the last byte of the
buffer is always 0 |
| 14:11.38 |
brlcad |
yeah, that's
what I was thinking |
| 14:11.54 |
brlcad |
or something
like what you had earlier for strlcpy |
| 14:12.04 |
brlcad |
maybe a
bu_strlcpy |
| 14:12.25 |
d_rossberg |
std::string
? |
| 14:12.34 |
brlcad |
heh |
| 14:12.51 |
brlcad |
that'd be a
pretty major change |
| 14:14.11 |
brlcad |
don't
presently require a c++ compiler just yet |
| 14:14.15 |
d_rossberg |
yes, and i
don't think that all sources woulg go through as .cpp |
| 14:15.53 |
brlcad |
to date, all
the libs (and almost all the sources) have been moving towards
strict ansi/iso compliance, pure C lib path |
| 14:16.27 |
brlcad |
the opennurbs
work was the first major "good reason" to adopt c++, so maybe as
that work completes and it's integrated non-optional |
| 14:17.25 |
brlcad |
still, gut
feeling is to keep them pure C and have C++ libs that build on top
of them, new OO API akin to what you started, maybe even using that
code as a starting point |
| 14:19.08 |
brlcad |
and even for
opennurbs, to hide it as implementation detail instead of keeping
the current exposure |
| 14:21.20 |
d_rossberg |
it's true,
i'm using my own C++ wrapper to access brlcad library, but i've
never published it |
| 14:42.14 |
``Erik |
hum, a
release of bzflag |
| 14:42.18 |
``Erik |
2.0.10
O.o |
| 14:48.24 |
*** join/#brlcad jaminkle
(i=JiE@60.53.124.14) |
| 14:53.14 |
``Erik |
*scrollscrollscroll* seems brlcad was busy
this weekend |
| 14:55.53 |
brlcad |
``Erik: that
was about a month ago (bz release) |
| 14:56.01 |
``Erik |
static is
only bad if the function is supposed to be reentrant, and that can
break on single proc machines if the ccontext switch happens in the
func |
| 14:56.08 |
``Erik |
oh, it just
made happypenguin :) |
| 14:56.30 |
brlcad |
yeah, we
didn't notify this time, so it's just been usual word-of-mount
spread |
| 14:56.48 |
``Erik |
how's the
jaw? back to real food yet? |
| 14:56.49 |
brlcad |
many of the
functions in librt are supposed to be re-entrant |
| 14:57.00 |
brlcad |
s/many/most/ |
| 14:57.07 |
*** join/#brlcad motoko
(n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 14:57.20 |
``Erik |
yeah, but I
believe there is no annotation to say which are or are not intended
to be that way |
| 14:57.53 |
``Erik |
d'no how
critical that is, but I think that'd make it easier for a new coder
to not break things |
| 14:58.03 |
brlcad |
I don't think
*any* are intentionally not that way, just not used in parallel yet
or known to not work or not worth the effort |
| 14:58.39 |
``Erik |
heh, then
static without semaphores or something is just plain bad juju
:D |
| 14:58.52 |
brlcad |
some of the
libbu routines exist because they were made reentrant when the
same/similar C interface was not necessarily |
| 15:00.00 |
brlcad |
hello
jaminkle |
| 15:01.49 |
``Erik |
png
1.2.24 |
| 15:02.09 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: parker fixed asc2g bug on Windows that
caused a crash on exit |
| 15:02.28 |
brlcad |
while you
were koreaning |
| 15:02.35 |
``Erik |
still no fix
for mikes uhhh cubit ? |
| 15:02.44 |
brlcad |
fix? |
| 15:02.59 |
brlcad |
his
crash-on-exit bug? |
| 15:02.59 |
``Erik |
it doens't
exit clean, so he forces an exit(), right? |
| 15:03.21 |
``Erik |
I gave him
shit about it last week, hoping it'd distract him enough to let bob
work |
| 15:03.29 |
``Erik |
:D |
| 15:03.45 |
brlcad |
heh, he
forces an abort(), exit() would still call the
destructors |
| 15:03.54 |
``Erik |
*shudder* |
| 15:04.09 |
``Erik |
is it bad
dependancy chain stuff? or a broken destructor? or
what? |
| 15:04.33 |
brlcad |
I think he's
not deallocating objects he's allocated in the proper
order |
| 15:04.48 |
brlcad |
or he's
freeing something he shouldn't like a singleton |
| 15:05.09 |
brlcad |
highly
suspect the latter based on a comment he made a couple weeks
ago |
| 15:05.21 |
brlcad |
but still
tbd |
| 15:05.22 |
``Erik |
heh,
unfortunately, the cubit code isn't open enough for me to bother
with unless I'm told to :D |
| 15:05.49 |
brlcad |
CGM is pretty
open, it's lgpl |
| 15:06.32 |
brlcad |
just mostly
useless by itself, it depends on ACIS so you can't compile it
stand-alone iirc without ACIS |
| 15:08.45 |
``Erik |
ya in today?
bob is talking about lee's hunan |
| 15:09.22 |
brlcad |
on my
way |
| 15:10.22 |
motokolearn |
HA |
| 15:10.30 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 15:10.40 |
``Erik |
http://freshmeat.net/projects/freedup/?branch_id=70879&release_id=267779 |
| 15:11.31 |
``Erik |
nothing like
http://freshmeat.net/projects/epac/ |
| 15:11.32 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 15:11.59 |
*** join/#brlcad motokolearn
(n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 15:12.20 |
brlcad |
hey, I know
that guy |
| 15:12.48 |
jaminkle |
? |
| 15:12.52 |
brlcad |
I've run
across that program about a half-dozen times |
| 15:13.05 |
``Erik |
which now?
what? O.o |
| 15:13.12 |
brlcad |
sorta like
ping where the NIBM is rampant |
| 15:13.40 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: ping
is from BRL isn't it? |
| 15:13.40 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 15:13.41 |
brlcad |
people
writing the same app when others exist |
| 15:13.47 |
``Erik |
yes, mike
muuss wrote the original |
| 15:13.52 |
Z80-Boy |
hehe
:) |
| 15:15.03 |
``Erik |
when I
interveiwed at fedex, that epac program was enough to impress their
gurus quite a bit, "this guy really understands how filesystems
work", so "is this guy technically competent" part was
nonexistant |
| 15:15.15 |
brlcad |
Z80-Boy: any
way you could re-encode your video+audio to an mpeg stream, or
provide me the audio track separately (then I could more easily
re-encode as an mpeg stream) |
| 15:15.46 |
brlcad |
I don't mind
*also* putting up the OGG, but if there's not an mpeg version, 99%
of the audience won't see it |
| 15:16.15 |
``Erik |
*nod* having
it "just work" on a vanilla windows computer is an unfortunate
necessity :( |
| 15:16.49 |
``Erik |
I watched 3
episodes of kung fu, serenity, and generally chummed with a buddy
who drove down from pennsylvania over the weekend. :D |
| 15:17.16 |
Maloeran |
And over the
last 2 weeks? :) Gez fine, let me know if you got something for
me |
| 15:17.24 |
Maloeran |
I'll have
plenty of time to code over the next month, I think |
| 15:17.32 |
``Erik |
oh,
ummm |
| 15:17.41 |
*** join/#brlcad motokolearn
(n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 15:17.43 |
``Erik |
I've been
gridning on learning, uh, javascript (again) |
| 15:17.59 |
Defcon |
haha |
| 15:18.11 |
``Erik |
but I'm still
backing it with php, um, downloaded a lithp webserver
thing |
| 15:18.19 |
Maloeran |
Yuck. Ready
for anything server-side in C yet? |
| 15:18.35 |
``Erik |
hunchentute
or something |
| 15:18.38 |
Defcon |
serverside C
?? |
| 15:18.41 |
``Erik |
heheheh newp,
lithp :D |
| 15:19.11 |
``Erik |
lisp has the
sexiness of being updated live |
| 15:19.26 |
``Erik |
no "restart"
command needed |
| 15:19.42 |
Maloeran |
Fine, I'll
code the thing as shared libraries to be reloaded on the
run |
| 15:20.09 |
``Erik |
I did that
with one program, there're still advantages to the lithp
approach |
| 15:20.16 |
Maloeran |
Such
as? |
| 15:20.25 |
``Erik |
also; I like
the sexy curves ( Y ) |
| 15:20.32 |
``Erik |
introspection |
| 15:21.33 |
Maloeran |
Well then...
I guess the question is, would you rather have me do it in highly
optimized C or write the lithp code? |
| 15:21.57 |
``Erik |
run sbcl in a
screen, run the server aspect and slime server in it, attach emacs
to it live (with significant hand twisting), be able to slap out
quick one line functions and just groove in it, with the data set
just sitting there live, mebbe self-optimizing... |
| 15:22.27 |
*** join/#brlcad motoko
(n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 15:22.31 |
``Erik |
well, you're
throwing out a dirty word there |
| 15:23.09 |
``Erik |
"optimized"... I think for this
application, cpu cycles are not the precious resource, notions like
"time to market", bugfix responsiveness, etc are all vastly more
important |
| 15:23.49 |
``Erik |
but I'm still
working on learning the presentation platform... web crap sure has
changed in the last 10 years |
| 15:24.12 |
``Erik |
there's all
this javscript crap, this "css" thingie, ... |
| 15:24.28 |
Maloeran |
At the pace
this is going, I think it will be mucg faster if I do it in C
rather than wait for you to come up with the lithp :) |
| 15:24.29 |
``Erik |
at least
dhtml died |
| 15:24.34 |
Maloeran |
much*
faster |
| 15:24.35 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 15:26.01 |
Maloeran |
Well then,
feel free to keep me updated |
| 15:26.21 |
``Erik |
I'm hoping to
do something productive, um, on thursday, while flying |
| 15:27.11 |
Maloeran |
That sounds
brief |
| 15:27.35 |
``Erik |
yeah...
that's the power of lithp, the code happens really fast |
| 15:28.08 |
``Erik |
so the
"figuring out what you want to do" looks radically large in
comparison... |
| 15:29.14 |
``Erik |
and the code
tends to be short and dense, so the seperation notions (which is at
least as big in C) seems disproportionately large (it's all
parenthesis!... but still less parenthesis than equivelant C,
weird) |
| 15:29.25 |
Maloeran |
So I suspect
you won't need any good C code? |
| 15:29.31 |
``Erik |
dunno |
| 15:30.22 |
``Erik |
I imagine
that lisp is extremely well suited, so I intend to use that at
first, and when it proves itself to be insufficient, THEN I'll
start shoving C in |
| 15:30.23 |
``Erik |
:) |
| 15:32.01 |
*** join/#brlcad motoko
(n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 15:32.06 |
``Erik |
I've also
found that when I try to use python or ruby, it works dandy until
things start getting tougher, and then they start seeming awfuly
kludgy and hard to used compared to the scheme or lisp solutions...
O.o |
| 15:32.56 |
Maloeran |
I have come
to think the same thing of about any language as complexity rises,
except C |
| 15:33.35 |
``Erik |
C has its own
issues *shrug* but it's a simple language so the issues are
tractable... lisp is similarly simple, but it has a different
purpose |
| 15:33.59 |
``Erik |
I mean, C is
fuckin' awesome for writing drivers or kernel stuff... not so much
for user apps mangling data sets |
| 15:34.06 |
Maloeran |
So you intend
to have to rewrite the thing once lisp proves itself insufficient?
I really would start with C right away |
| 15:34.33 |
``Erik |
see, a lot of
the C code I write has me saying "I wish I could write this in
scheme, it'd be so much easier" |
| 15:34.35 |
Maloeran |
Oh, I got the
code for data sets, memory management or whatever
already |
| 15:34.54 |
``Erik |
yeah, I have
a massive personal library, too... *shrug* |
| 15:35.32 |
``Erik |
but when
every function I'm writing has a single line of scheme describing
it in the comment... :D |
| 15:35.50 |
Maloeran |
Oh well.
Erik, I can start whenever you want if you want C code |
| 15:36.14 |
``Erik |
hehehe, and
here I thought you'd thrown some lisp out in your day
:D |
| 15:36.44 |
Maloeran |
I have tried,
I always came back to C when things were getting more
complex |
| 15:37.11 |
``Erik |
I had that
phase with scheme, but as I learned more of the heavier hitting
scheme, the balance shifted |
| 15:37.17 |
Maloeran |
Lisp just
would not provide the proper and efficient solutions I would seek
to get at the assembly level |
| 15:38.20 |
``Erik |
the x86 is a
horrible chip to start with, judging a language by the x86 machien
code of an implementation might not always be
appropriate |
| 15:38.57 |
Maloeran |
It might be
horrible but it's what we got, and the architecture design is there
to stay |
| 15:39.23 |
Maloeran |
I won't pick
a language because it can be "theorically" better on some
hypothetical ideal computers. I prefer to deal with
reality |
| 15:39.37 |
``Erik |
yeah, the g5
was lovely, but apple jumped ship because of cult of the gigahertz
:( |
| 15:40.13 |
``Erik |
notionally,
the web delivery thing lets you control reality a bit more instead
of just sucking it up and going with the rest of the
sheep |
| 15:41.26 |
Maloeran |
Fine fine...
In that case, let me know when lithp proves itself insufficient and
you decide to start over in C :) |
| 15:42.20 |
``Erik |
hehehe, I'm
quite certain I'll find fault with javascript and ie far before
lisp :D |
| 15:43.59 |
*** join/#brlcad motoko
(n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 15:53.00 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 15:53.54 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 16:00.11 |
*** join/#brlcad motoko
(n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 16:02.35 |
jaminkle |
ok this is
going to work |
| 16:03.04 |
jaminkle |
oh
noes |
| 16:03.09 |
jaminkle |
i killed
him |
| 16:03.39 |
*** join/#brlcad motokolearn
(n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) |
| 16:06.05 |
``Erik |
heh |
| 16:11.35 |
jaminkle |
motokolearn
hello |
| 16:11.47 |
motokolearn |
jaminkle:
Hello there, it is nice to be obsessed with that! |
| 16:11.55 |
jaminkle |
:/ |
| 16:22.41 |
*** join/#brlcad prasad_
(n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 16:52.59 |
minute |
Can you send
me a screenshot of the troubles in Safari 2, appers to be working
alright in Safari 3 BETA. |
| 16:53.13 |
minute |
(I don't have
a Mac, unfourtunatley :() |
| 17:15.22 |
jaminkle |
>.> |
| 18:24.45 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): Set flag to
clear back buffer in drawBegin routine. |
| 18:32.05 |
*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy
(i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 19:02.24 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
| 19:29.38 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Move call to
itk_initialize up a bit. This fixes the problem of the main canvas'
background not getting set. Added a call to writePreferences in the
destructor. |
| 20:01.10 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c:
s/shaderlen/shader_len/ |
| 20:02.42 |
minute |
jaminkle:
<.< |
| 20:03.30 |
``Erik |
O.o |
| 20:05.11 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: force enum values
instead of "hoping". define the name size limit. |
| 20:11.07 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/main.c: change
naming prefix |
| 20:12.13 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
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| 20:59.58 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (Makefile.am load.c
load.h slave.c slave.h): reorg to reduce prototypes |
| 21:07.01 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Move a
few methods related to editing from ArcherCore to
Archer. |
| 21:23.03 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS
src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c): |
| 21:23.10 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
update the pro/e plugin so that it also now implements the first
half of sf |
| 21:23.17 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
request [ 1159469 ] "Pro/E converter improvements" whereby it now
more |
| 21:23.23 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
appropriately parses the part number to part name mapping file and
allows part |
| 21:23.27 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
names that have spaces in the name. instead of stopping at the
first |
| 21:23.34 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
whitespace, it now reads until the end of the line and extracts the
part name, |
| 21:23.39 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
allowing for an arbitrary amount of surrounding whitespace that it
trims off. |
| 21:38.31 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-29 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT
VICTIM] |
| 21:47.58 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: improve the framebuffer support for HDR
imagery, an alpha channel for transparency, and configurable
timeouts on remove framebuffers. |
| 22:06.44 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@212.15.176.104) |
| 23:05.58 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/usrfmt.h: ws consistency
cleanup |
| 23:06.30 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.c: major ws and style consistency
cleanup |
| 23:07.41 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (interact.c dist_def.c): use c99 fmax
instead of max macro, might need configure support |
| 23:08.17 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (if.c command.c): use c99 fabs()
instead of abs macro, might need configure support |
| 23:09.44 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.h: clean ws and style
consistency, document origin, remove min/max/abs and DEBUG_FORMAT
(raytrace.h provides it), add header wrapper protection |
| 23:15.28 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/interact.c: ws and style consistency
cleanup |
| 23:19.45 |
``Erik |
hehehe |
| 23:20.34 |
louipc |
I always
thought lisp was a scripting language. |
| 23:20.57 |
starseeker |
It can be
used that way, but I don't think it usually is |
| 23:21.23 |
louipc |
so you can
make binaries from the code eh? |
| 23:21.43 |
starseeker |
Sort of.
It's like java - you need the environment |
| 23:21.58 |
louipc |
oh |
| 23:22.57 |
starseeker |
It's a pretty
awesome language for flexibility and power, but it's lib support is
a bit behind |
| 23:25.29 |
starseeker |
(especially
on the graphics side - McCLIM has the potential to be incredible
but it needs a lot of work) |
| 23:27.51 |
``Erik |
um, actually,
some implementations and spew out standalone that doesn't need the
environment |
| 23:28.10 |
*** join/#brlcad CIA-29
(n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 23:28.18 |
starseeker |
Some of the
commercial ones maybe |
| 23:28.19 |
louipc |
vlisp isn't
along the lines of vbasic or vc++ is it? hehheh |
| 23:28.21 |
``Erik |
and I know
there're a couple schemes that can spew out C to compile, or some
even compile into jvm .class files |
| 23:28.31 |
starseeker |
louipc: It
claims to be a verified scheme |
| 23:28.36 |
starseeker |
louipc:
whatever that means |
| 23:29.05 |
starseeker |
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/guttman95vlisp.html |
| 23:29.10 |
``Erik |
<-- on the
scheme side, not the cl... so knows the pretty toys for scheme :D
bigloo, sisc, schemetoc, ... |
| 23:30.49 |
``Erik |
it's a neat
idea, but cosmic rays still blow bits clean off the silicon :( I
think some of hte ultrasparcs and ibm biggies actually did a given
computation several times in parallel and made sure the results are
all the same |
| 23:31.07 |
starseeker |
Oh, sure -
you have to verify the hardware |
| 23:31.24 |
``Erik |
pretty
similar, but there're some big gotchas... like functions live in a
seperate symbol space than variables |
| 23:31.34 |
CIA-29 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (bsphere.c command.c dist_def.c):
more ws and style consistency cleanup |
| 23:32.02 |
``Erik |
in lisp...
that's been screwing me up, you get weirdness like defvar defun,
etc... and you can't just USE the variable, like scheme can do
((alpha) 'beta) |
| 23:32.17 |
``Erik |
where alpha
returns a function, and that snipped executes that function with
beta as the arg |
| 23:32.19 |
starseeker |
Hmm. From
the standpoint of a CAS with integrated proof software, a
foundation like VLISP might be a Really Really Good
Thing |
| 23:32.41 |
``Erik |
other than
that, just library stuff, mostly |
| 23:32.46 |
``Erik |
and
macros |
| 23:33.02 |
``Erik |
scheme
usually offers both hygenic and 'lispy' macros |
| 23:33.21 |
starseeker |
Cool. |
| 23:33.24 |
``Erik |
though the
hygenic ones are the only mandated ones in r5 |
| 23:35.25 |
``Erik |
doubt it, a
major philosophy is to keep the core language tiny and extend it
with srfi's |
| 23:35.53 |
starseeker |
Might be some
merit to that - Lisp's monumental spec still didn't specify
enough |
| 23:37.10 |
starseeker |
It would be
an interesting exercise to attempt porting the "major" lisp apps
and libraries over to a scheme - I wonder what the practical
differences would be |
| 23:38.10 |
starseeker |
Now if
someone has done a verified Machine Forth... |
| 23:39.17 |
starseeker |
apparently
not |
| 23:39.39 |
starseeker |
Hrm. |
| 23:40.28 |
starseeker |
Amazing
really - every time I turn around I find another major piece of
work on verification I didn't know existed. It must take the real
pros years of full time reading to learn the field |
| 23:50.58 |
``Erik |
I imagine
there'd be a lot of hunting for the right scheme to do a port like
that... all those toys built into cl... kinda like javas class
library |
| 00:00.15 |
starseeker |
OK, that was
really weird, but it worked. Does BRL-CAD need the zlib copy
included with it? |
| 00:00.46 |
``Erik |
src/other/libz ? |
| 00:01.18 |
starseeker |
opennurbs/zlib |
| 00:01.59 |
brlcad |
no, but to
remove it requires a few mods |
| 00:02.02 |
starseeker |
sorry - the
opennurbs tarball has a copy of zlib |
| 00:02.05 |
starseeker |
ah
:-) |
| 00:02.25 |
brlcad |
we've
modified them in our src tree, but we're also one release behind
them now |
| 00:02.45 |
starseeker |
ah |
| 00:02.50 |
brlcad |
i had to make
a slew of cross-platform compilation fixes too, but maybe they've
fixed those |
| 00:03.27 |
brlcad |
fortunately,
all of our big mods have been left out of their source
tree |
| 00:03.51 |
brlcad |
"we" (jason)
implemented a lot of the functions that they took out of
opennurbs |
| 00:04.05 |
brlcad |
as they
intentionally don't want it used the way we're using it |
| 00:04.22 |
starseeker |
That's
annoying |
| 00:04.29 |
brlcad |
(i.e. as part
of a nurbs evaluation kernel) |
| 00:04.52 |
brlcad |
as they see
it as directly competing with one of their commercial products they
sell |
| 00:04.58 |
starseeker |
So BRL-CAD
can use (in theory) an external copy? |
| 00:05.02 |
starseeker |
indeed |
| 00:05.03 |
brlcad |
in
theory |
| 00:05.19 |
brlcad |
like I said,
haven't tried the latest |
| 00:05.34 |
brlcad |
you might
want to try upgrading our copy first, just in case there were api
changes |
| 00:05.41 |
brlcad |
might/should
be easier |
| 00:05.57 |
brlcad |
then work on
making the patch that the ebuild will need from their
zip |
| 00:06.13 |
brlcad |
how is the
ebuild supposed to get the zip? |
| 00:06.21 |
starseeker |
got
me |
| 00:06.28 |
starseeker |
may require
fetch restrictions |
| 00:06.31 |
brlcad |
iirc, they
have this click-through contact form |
| 00:06.49 |
brlcad |
you don't
have to fill in anything, but you can't get to the download link
without going through it iirc |
| 00:07.06 |
starseeker |
well, if it's
free Gentoo can make a tarball :-) |
| 00:07.12 |
brlcad |
and host
it? |
| 00:07.24 |
starseeker |
maybe. or we
could |
| 00:08.08 |
brlcad |
I wouldn't
without an okay from mcneel, and that's not likely given how we use
it |
| 00:08.23 |
brlcad |
even if
license-wise there's no reason we couldn't |
| 00:08.56 |
starseeker |
Hmm |
| 00:09.07 |
starseeker |
ok |
| 00:09.26 |
brlcad |
but you're
welcome to ask :) |
| 00:09.31 |
starseeker |
hehe |
| 00:09.54 |
brlcad |
yay, one of
my stitches just came out |
| 00:10.07 |
brlcad |
that's been
irritating for days |
| 00:10.09 |
starseeker |
I'll let the
Gentoo devs ask :-P |
| 00:10.18 |
brlcad |
heh, that
works |
| 00:10.44 |
``Erik |
soluble
stitches? |
| 00:11.55 |
brlcad |
yeah |
| 00:17.41 |
``Erik |
cool
beans |
| 01:15.28 |
starseeker |
brlcad: So
are the opennurbs guys actively annoyed with us, or they just
didn't provide the functions jason recreated in order to avoid
making it TOO easy for the competition? |
| 01:33.31 |
brlcad |
starseeker:
i'm not sure I'd characterize it as annoyed or not, I don't know --
but I do know that they openly state that using the library as part
of any geometric modeling kernel is and was not the reason that the
sources are provided and that they specifically will *not* help
anyone using it in that regard |
| 01:35.09 |
brlcad |
if you read
through their news/mailing list for the past couple years (archived
on their site iirc), you'll see at least a half dozen questions
that come up with people trying to use it as such where they
reiterate that it's not supposed to be used for that and they don't
provide any help |
| 04:19.40 |
Axman6 |
sound like a
bunch of wankers. how does doing that help anyone? |
| 04:41.16 |
*** join/#brlcad jgay
(n=jgay@fsf/staff/jgay) |
| 05:08.31 |
Axman6 |
....................... |
| 05:08.34 |
Axman6 |
oh
god |
| 05:08.39 |
starseeker |
Thank
goodness the stix font beta had already come and gone or I would
have started suspecting an early April 1st |
| 05:09.59 |
starseeker |
Axman6:
Exactly :-) |
| 05:11.19 |
starseeker |
As much as I
have to grit my teeth to say it - Good for Microsoft; well
done |
| 05:13.06 |
Axman6 |
only what,
two years too late? |
| 05:13.28 |
starseeker |
``Erik: Do
you by any chance have autoconf build logic for opennurbs that
could be used for a stand alone install? They don't seem to have
even a make install command... |
| 05:13.35 |
starseeker |
Heh - better
late than never |
| 05:13.56 |
starseeker |
From what I
recall, ACID2 stumped everyone for a while - I think Konqueror was
the first to get it right? |
| 05:14.09 |
Axman6 |
Safari was
the first |
| 05:14.21 |
starseeker |
Ah,
right |
| 05:14.23 |
Axman6 |
which then
meant konquorer came next, then opera |
| 05:15.31 |
Axman6 |
and now the
KDE guys have basically dropped the main khtml stuff, and they're
going to use Apple's WebKit for konqueror... because bugs get fixed
faster :P |
| 05:17.37 |
starseeker |
Hey, as long
as it works :-) |
| 05:17.58 |
starseeker |
I guess you
could call WebKit khtml2.0, based on where it came
from... |
| 05:18.54 |
Axman6 |
well khtml
basically died about a year ago. there's been no work on it for
ages |
| 05:19.41 |
Axman6 |
Apple have
done a fantastic job with webkit, fast, makes things look good,
very standards complient |
| 05:20.00 |
starseeker |
Hard to argue
with that, and if the licensing is OK why not use it? |
| 05:21.01 |
Axman6 |
yeah, not
sure what it's licence is actually, good chance it's GPL
though |
| 05:21.22 |
starseeker |
Apple does
good work, as a rule |
| 05:21.38 |
starseeker |
The problem
is (for me at least) they charge accordingly :-) |
| 05:21.55 |
Axman6 |
well i could
seriously imagine steve standing behind guys witha
whip... |
| 05:22.07 |
Axman6 |
macs are
cheap these days man, and so's OS X |
| 05:22.29 |
starseeker |
They aren't
bad, but Linux is free and almost all of it is open :-) |
| 05:23.10 |
starseeker |
One thing
about Mac OSX's graphics systems - they are very definitely NOT
open |
| 05:23.41 |
Axman6 |
linux is a
play thing for me, there's just not enough polish with it, things
are still too hard to use, and it lacks the consistancy i get with
OS X. i know linux definitely has it's place, but i don't think
that's the desktop yet |
| 05:23.41 |
starseeker |
Plus, as time
goes by I'm coming more and more to appreciate the X method of
communication - it is relatively language independent |
| 05:24.10 |
Axman6 |
heh, X is one
of the main reasons i don't like linux |
| 05:25.06 |
starseeker |
X is actually
quite an excellent piece of work, but it didn't get the fancy stuff
until recently thanks to the XFree86 organizational setup (as I
understand it) |
| 05:25.14 |
Axman6 |
yeah, that
argument usually doesn't go down very well on irc... but you're
talking to people who irc, so they're not going to be your average
joe ;) |
| 05:25.23 |
starseeker |
I remember
noticing a lot of abrupt improvements in Cygwin's X support after
Xorg took off... |
| 05:26.54 |
Axman6 |
i just think
the structure of X is stupid. i don't understand using a client
server model when you're using a single machine. X forwarding is
nice ish, but there are other ways, and that should really be a
side thing these days |
| 05:26.59 |
Axman6 |
if that makes
any sense |
| 05:27.59 |
starseeker |
Well, the
advantage of client-server is that you don't have to care what
programming languages are being used in client or server.
Programming a GUI on Mac OSX in anything other than Objective C
requires some FFI work at some layer, as I understand
it |
| 05:28.48 |
Axman6 |
well you can
use many different things like QT and gtk if you want |
| 05:28.56 |
starseeker |
The X
architecture is one of the reasons Lisp can talk to it well - it
doesn't require an FFI bridge |
| 05:29.26 |
starseeker |
Oh, sure -
you can use a lib to paper over the differences if someone has
written one (and QT is a good one by all the accounts I have
heard) |
| 05:29.43 |
starseeker |
But the
client/server flexibility still makes many things easier in the
end |
| 05:30.12 |
starseeker |
Sorta like
the trend towards web clients for apps, although I'm not terribly
impressed with that personally... |
| 05:30.48 |
Axman6 |
still, if
you've ever used a mac for a while, you start to feel that the gui
is really 'solid' its hard to explain, but with X and the windows
managers you use, you can feel that windows are made of little
bitmaps and such |
| 05:31.10 |
starseeker |
Sure. I'm
not claiming OSX isn't more polished - it is |
| 05:31.26 |
starseeker |
But to me
that's less critical than the core technologies behind it
:-) |
| 05:32.12 |
starseeker |
Apples
technologies are probably pretty good overall (unless you're trying
to make an McCLIM backend to the OSX graphics layer...) but they're
also completely closed up |
| 05:32.58 |
starseeker |
Heh - I've
gotta hit the hay here before my head demolishes my keyboard... I
like this keyboard |
| 05:33.33 |
Axman6 |
i also like
how easy the tools for OS X are to use for the gui. you drag and
drop some stuff, put it where it tells you, and you end up with a
HIG complient interface, that's fully OpenGL backed, and looks
great |
| 05:33.45 |
Axman6 |
haha, ok man,
take care |
| 05:34.11 |
starseeker |
If you don't
like X, you might take a look at http://picogui.org/ or http://fresco.org/ |
| 05:36.08 |
Axman6 |
interesting |
| 06:41.41 |
brlcad |
Axman6: I
don't see them as wankers, it was pretty cool/useful that they
released openNURBS at all, and they're not actively prohibiting
anyone -- they're just not going to help make a direct competitor
to a product they sell |
| 06:42.35 |
brlcad |
the reason
they released it was to give people free 3DM read/write file
support for the Rhino file format -- we could really trivially
write a Rhino-to-BRL-CAD importer/exporter now |
| 06:45.21 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 06:49.40 |
*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy
(i=clock@77-56-92-195.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:21.11 |
*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 08:21.11 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release
7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you |
| 08:37.10 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
(n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 08:48.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: |
| 08:48.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
provide DEG2RAD and RAD2DEG constants for pi/180 and 180/pi; rename
the new |
| 08:48.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
V3AE2DIR to V3DIR_FROM_AZEL to be more consistent with other vmath
macros, |
| 08:48.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
similarly making first arg the dir instead of last; implement the
complementary |
| 08:48.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
AZEL_FROM_V3DIR for setting an az/el from a direction vector as
well (untested) |
| 08:49.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: update from V3AE2DIR to
newly renamed V3DIR_FROM_AZEL macro name |
| 08:55.04 |
Z80-Boy |
Did anyone
from here already get contacted by Google recruitment? |
| 08:55.26 |
brlcad |
huh? |
| 08:55.30 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/const.c: use the vmath.h/math.h
macros where available (math.h are generally higher precision),
convert all constants to fastf_t values. |
| 08:56.14 |
Z80-Boy |
They said
they have Vont Cerf and Ken Thomson |
| 08:56.17 |
Z80-Boy |
Vint |
| 08:57.20 |
brlcad |
they hire all
sorts of people ... like many many many companies |
| 08:59.55 |
Z80-Boy |
Is it true
they are famous for secretivity? |
| 09:00.21 |
Axman6 |
sounds more
like apple. google are pretty open |
| 09:07.11 |
*** join/#brlcad Elperion
(n=Bary@p54874E5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:39.07 |
Z80-Boy |
brlcad: do
you someone who could donate his superfluous supercomputing
capacity for ocassional rendering of a project like
Ronja? |
| 09:39.32 |
Z80-Boy |
Like I would
like to make the video anti-aliased but that would render a
month... |
| 09:39.43 |
Z80-Boy |
on my
laptop |
| 09:50.14 |
Axman6 |
Z80-Boy:
what're you rendering and how? |
| 09:50.29 |
Z80-Boy |
Axman6: Ronja
models, using BRL-CAD rt |
| 09:51.09 |
Axman6 |
right, never
heard of ronja |
| 09:51.24 |
Z80-Boy |
http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 09:52.48 |
Axman6 |
hmm, i'm
confused now |
| 09:53.06 |
Axman6 |
are mounting
brackets really that interesting? :P |
| 09:54.43 |
Z80-Boy |
There are no
mounting brackets on the page I posted. Mounting brackets are
mentioned in the news on the title page and there is no 3D model of
mounting brackets./ |
| 09:56.49 |
Axman6 |
the pics look
like mounting brackets to me, but anyway. looks like a cool idea
now i know what it does |
| 09:57.14 |
Z80-Boy |
aha I thought
you are talking about the specific part of Ronja that is officially
called mounting brackets |
| 09:57.59 |
Z80-Boy |
The 3D models
are important for people to know how to put all the parts
together. |
| 09:58.17 |
Z80-Boy |
Also to see
what it looks like how it's interfaced to the building
etc. |
| 09:58.28 |
Z80-Boy |
How bulky it
is |
| 09:58.31 |
Axman6 |
yeah |
| 09:58.55 |
Axman6 |
what's wrong
with wifi and parabolic reflectors anyway? :P |
| 09:59.07 |
Z80-Boy |
There's
nothing wrong with them |
| 09:59.18 |
Z80-Boy |
They just
have a different set of advantages and weaknesses |
| 10:00.51 |
Z80-Boy |
Here is some
discussion of possible problems with WiFi that Ronja can be a
solution for: http://ronja.twibright.com/wifi.php |
| 10:13.53 |
vedge |
Z80-Boy: very
cool. i know some people who are having problems with interference
from airplanes in my area and it's so bad they're basically stuck
with an unreliable cable ISP because of this. |
| 10:14.31 |
vedge |
we have a
very good wifi provider, and i know people there have been trying
to figure out a way around this problem. i'll send them the
link. |
| 10:18.17 |
Z80-Boy |
I had an
Internet connection through 2 Ronjas in series and it was quite
reliable |
| 10:18.30 |
Z80-Boy |
The biggest
problem was they were still prototypes and in process of
debugging |
| 10:18.51 |
Z80-Boy |
But they
still genrally appeared to be more reliable than wifis and cables
we had in the same network :) |
| 10:26.55 |
vedge |
cool |
| 10:28.36 |
vedge |
i'm opening a
pcb shop, in case you're looking for a small/medium qty
manufacturer in north america |
| 10:36.10 |
archivist |
vedge
#electronics has people asking about pcb makers now and
again |
| 10:36.55 |
Z80-Boy |
vedge: I
already have a company where I send prototypes |
| 10:39.53 |
Z80-Boy |
vedge: can
you send post order internationally? |
| 10:41.05 |
Z80-Boy |
Can you do
all the necessary technologies - HAL, through plating, solder mask,
edge routing? |
| 10:41.11 |
Z80-Boy |
I mean edge
milling |
| 10:45.42 |
vedge |
archivist:
thanks for the tip |
| 10:46.14 |
vedge |
Z80-Boy: i'm
in canada, i think sending small pcbs internationally through
canada post would be around $10 |
| 10:47.11 |
Z80-Boy |
If you were
interested you could sell the Ronja PCBs and I could put you on the
website as a supplier |
| 10:47.22 |
vedge |
i can do all
of this, but i don't have a machine in my PCB assembly line for
edge milling, extra setup time would be involved for
that |
| 10:47.45 |
Z80-Boy |
The
transmitter has 3 rectangular millings |
| 10:48.05 |
Z80-Boy |
can you
dissolve the cost in a larger series? |
| 10:48.49 |
vedge |
i wonder if
punch pressing would work for PCB material, that would be a lot
cheaper than actual milling. |
| 10:48.51 |
Z80-Boy |
Here is the
old shop http://ronjashop.com/info.php?lang=en |
| 10:48.53 |
vedge |
yes |
| 10:49.06 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't know
if this guy is still operating |
| 10:49.17 |
Z80-Boy |
He doesn't
seem to having upgraded from Twister to Twister2 |
| 10:49.24 |
archivist |
pressing is
normal for paper boards |
| 10:49.33 |
Z80-Boy |
He has the
prices on his website you could see if you can be
competitive |
| 10:50.06 |
Z80-Boy |
Of course
only in case such a small project is actually interesting for you
financially |
| 10:52.46 |
vedge |
my equipment
is not entirely ready for production just yet, i'm still working on
the testing phase. i'll get back to you on this. |
| 10:53.41 |
vedge |
i have
basically all of the fabrication equipment ready, but no testing
system. |
| 10:54.40 |
Z80-Boy |
you mean
electrical and optical testing? |
| 10:55.53 |
vedge |
yes |
| 10:56.02 |
vedge |
and i can't
exactly afford a $200k "bed of nails" |
| 10:57.12 |
Z80-Boy |
I wonder if
with all the cost of handling individual orders a project like
Ronja could be interesting for you financially |
| 10:57.40 |
archivist |
heh send RF
testing to me in the UK |
| 10:57.51 |
Z80-Boy |
It should
theoretically be a small, but continuous income |
| 10:58.31 |
Z80-Boy |
Like the
Ronjashop sold already about 500 boards IIRC |
| 10:58.55 |
Z80-Boy |
It's actually
a student who always orders a series of 100 or 200 and then sells
it apart individually |
| 10:59.16 |
Z80-Boy |
You get 1/6
of the price you would pay if you ordered your board individually
in a PCB manufacturere. |
| 10:59.34 |
vedge |
oh, this is
exactly the sort of project i'm interested into. |
| 10:59.44 |
Z80-Boy |
that's
good |
| 10:59.59 |
vedge |
i have a
mostly-automated assembly line, i order films and supplies in bulk,
but it's far from being a big plant. |
| 11:00.15 |
Z80-Boy |
Can you do
optical testing? |
| 11:00.48 |
Z80-Boy |
I think below
3 pieces no testing is prescribed and above 3 optical I am not
sure |
| 11:01.22 |
Z80-Boy |
One should
also check if the gerbers can be loaded into your system. I am
using a free software that generates the negative drawing command
which some softwares that don |
| 11:01.22 |
vedge |
what do you
mean by optical testing? |
| 11:01.32 |
Z80-Boy |
t implement
RS 274-X completely cannot crunch |
| 11:01.43 |
vedge |
oh, sure. i'm
using my own software for this. |
| 11:01.45 |
Z80-Boy |
Making a
picture of the board and comparing with a reference
picture |
| 11:01.51 |
Z80-Boy |
to find
copper bridges gaps etc. |
| 11:02.44 |
Z80-Boy |
You could
even sell with part bags if it were interesting for you, like kits
- would be more convenient for the user, would increase interest in
the project and sales |
| 11:03.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Now the
interest is going down due to 5GHz WiFi competition. |
| 11:03.14 |
Z80-Boy |
And because
people have to buy all the parts themselves |
| 11:04.17 |
Z80-Boy |
I hope once
maybe someone manages to run a shop like this and sponsor my
project so I can improve the kilometers and megabits increase
interest and his sales |
| 11:04.23 |
Z80-Boy |
Kinda mutual
symbiosis |
| 11:07.01 |
vedge |
as far as
optical testing goes, i suppose it would depend on the resolution.
i don't have a microscope unfortunately. |
| 11:07.22 |
Z80-Boy |
Or can you
manufacture it reliably? |
| 11:07.27 |
vedge |
i have a
machine shop, i could probably manufacture parts but i don't know
if it would be cost effective at all. i'd have to look more closely
at the model. |
| 11:07.44 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't mean
machine parts, but electronics parts |
| 11:07.52 |
Z80-Boy |
diodes
transistors resistors LEDs HC gates |
| 11:09.40 |
vedge |
sure, but
it's just a matter of cost. my process is reliable but i still need
to figure out bare-PCB testing |
| 11:10.38 |
vedge |
if put a
potentially defect board on the pick and place and then functional
testing reveals problems i can't really recover the
parts. |
| 11:21.15 |
Z80-Boy |
vedge: I
don't mean that you would populate the boards. That would be an
unnecessary cost. The user can populate it himself
easily. |
| 11:23.34 |
vedge |
i'm not sure
optical comparison would be that useful with my process. i'd expect
most defects to involve the vias, as opposed to the surface of the
board, unless there are very tiny features. |
| 11:24.12 |
Z80-Boy |
vedge: I
misinformed with an old information. The existing shop apparently
already upgraded to Twister2. |
| 11:24.13 |
vedge |
populating
the boards isn't expensive for me if the components are
SMT |
| 11:24.55 |
Z80-Boy |
Some are
not |
| 11:25.41 |
Z80-Boy |
you could
pre-populate the SMT ones, though. |
| 11:48.53 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@213.147.110.16) |
| 13:00.15 |
Defcon |
oem version
:D |
| 13:00.19 |
Defcon |
guess not
^^ |
| 13:01.06 |
Maloeran |
You think so?
I'll look for the usual refund clause in the EULA |
| 13:01.42 |
Maloeran |
I think the
point is mostly to annoy HP for forcing me to buy software I didn't
want |
| 13:02.21 |
Z80-Boy |
Forcing?
Noone is forcing you into buying anything :) |
| 13:02.33 |
Z80-Boy |
You had an
option to not buy the whole notbeook |
| 13:03.38 |
Defcon |
no |
| 13:03.53 |
Defcon |
there was
another case just like this |
| 13:04.04 |
Defcon |
the guy won
like 1200$ back |
| 13:04.13 |
minute |
wtf? |
| 13:04.20 |
Z80-Boy |
and how much
did he pay for lawyers? |
| 13:04.30 |
Defcon |
he
won |
| 13:04.37 |
Defcon |
so
nothing..? |
| 13:05.01 |
Z80-Boy |
In such case
I prefer designing my own hardware that works 100%. |
| 13:05.12 |
Z80-Boy |
Courts and
lawyers are inherently unreliable and can backfire |
| 13:05.27 |
Defcon |
indeed |
| 13:05.48 |
Z80-Boy |
For example
since I made myself Ronja, I now don't have to care about NDA
binary-only WiFi drivers, bugs in WiFi firmware and how badly they
designed their access method |
| 13:06.16 |
Maloeran |
Z80-Boy, I
didn't sign the EULA before buying the laptop |
| 13:06.21 |
Maloeran |
And there's
clearly a refund clause in there |
| 13:06.26 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran:
that's good |
| 13:06.53 |
Z80-Boy |
Maloeran: so
you should get your money back easily, shouldn't you |
| 13:07.18 |
Maloeran |
Theorically,
yes. I'm sure they don't enjoy doing this though |
| 13:07.36 |
Z80-Boy |
Noone enjoys
coughing up money |
| 13:07.37 |
Defcon |
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/94705/index.html |
| 13:07.50 |
Defcon |
i thought he
got more money than this |
| 13:08.18 |
Maloeran |
140 euros,
not too bad |
| 13:10.22 |
Z80-Boy |
Noone should
really complain about hardware anymore since we have free software
for designing hardware |
| 13:10.23 |
Defcon |
indeed
not |
| 13:10.31 |
Z80-Boy |
And we have
that already for several years |
| 13:10.56 |
Defcon |
ppl tend to
complain very fast |
| 13:11.04 |
Z80-Boy |
It's like -
you don't like Microsoft Windows? Take Linux. If you don't like
that one, pimp it up until you like it ;-) |
| 13:11.52 |
Maloeran |
http://www.rayforce.net/hp000.png |
| 13:11.56 |
Z80-Boy |
Or like
complaining that AutoCAD is crap and not taking BRL-CAD |
| 13:12.03 |
Defcon |
and what if
ppl can't pimp it up |
| 13:12.35 |
Defcon |
lol
Maloeran |
| 13:13.23 |
Maloeran |
Looks clear
enough to me |
| 13:14.00 |
Z80-Boy |
Doesn't
Leninovo sell notebooks without Windows? |
| 13:15.01 |
Z80-Boy |
By using
Vista you agree to a) not have any opinion b) stop thinking c) obey
everything Microsoft says d) voluntarily and irrevocably giving up
your all human rights to Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) |
| 13:15.56 |
Defcon |
Don't sell
your soul to the devil! |
| 13:16.49 |
Z80-Boy |
I don't like
products for whose usage I need a lawyer |
| 13:17.08 |
Z80-Boy |
Lawyers are
expensive and it totals up pretty expensive :) |
| 13:22.40 |
Defcon |
haha
yeah |
| 13:23.45 |
Maloeran |
The point is
more to get these companies to stop trying to force buying software
on people |
| 13:24.19 |
Maloeran |
Although I'm
leaving for south america in 4 days, it's not the best timing to
begin even a brief legal battle |
| 13:25.36 |
Defcon |
:D |
| 13:27.49 |
minute |
Maloeran:
They aren't forcing people to buy antyhing. |
| 13:28.20 |
minute |
You choose to
buy a laptop that comes with Vista installed, you could easily
choose to purchase a laptop that doesn't. |
| 13:28.32 |
Defcon |
if you want
that particular laptop/.. they are |
| 13:28.52 |
Maloeran |
minute,
there's an EULA that states I can get a refund for it |
| 13:28.53 |
Defcon |
as a customer
you have the right to buy the laptop without software |
| 13:28.57 |
Defcon |
indeed |
| 13:29.02 |
Maloeran |
I didn't
agree to the EULA before purchasing the laptop |
| 13:29.27 |
minute |
Maloeran: So
get a refund? |
| 13:29.36 |
Maloeran |
Will try
to |
| 13:38.19 |
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*** join/#brlcad ibot
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| 19:12.49 |
*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling ||
http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
|| Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
|| BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release
7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you |
| 20:18.17 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (38 files in 38 dirs):
Initial check-in. |
| 20:22.00 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added 38
more projects. Mostly fb utils and their missing libs. |
| 20:26.52 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Define HAVE_RAND and
fmax. |
| 20:29.27 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/orle.h: Added ORLE_EXPORT for exposing
variables and functions on windows. |
| 20:30.47 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/vfont-if.h: Mods to expose vfont_get()
and vfont_free() on windows. |
| 20:32.25 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (8 files): Mods to get things
compiling on windows. |
| 20:35.17 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/include/rle.h: Mods to
expose variables and functions. |
| 20:37.47 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (rle_getrow.c
rle_open_f.c scanargs.c include/rle_config.h): Mods to get things
compiling on windows. |
| 21:30.22 |
*** join/#brlcad starseeker
(n=CY@ip72-218-17-237.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 21:59.18 |
starseeker |
wee |
| 22:10.03 |
*** join/#brlcad louipc
(n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667681.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:13.38 |
*** join/#brlcad docelic
(n=docelic@77.237.110.164) |
| 22:16.57 |
*** join/#brlcad gabo
(n=Miranda@dsl5400725E.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 22:22.20 |
*** join/#brlcad yukonbob
(n=yukonbob@S010600195bd5c415.lb.shawcable.net) |
| 22:56.58 |
CIA-30 |
BRL-CAD:
03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (44 files in 44 dirs): Clean
up the project files a little. |
| 23:44.25 |
yukonbob |
yay! Looks
like Tcl 8.5.0 out today... |
| 23:49.20 |
*** join/#brlcad dtidrow
(n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
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