| 01:30.38 | *** join/#brlcad cosurgi (janek@absurd.ds.pg.gda.pl) | |
| 02:39.18 | learner | back in a few |
| 02:55.03 | brlcad | wow, what a blast from the past |
| 02:55.13 | brlcad | dont' think i've booted this sucker in over a year |
| 03:45.02 | *** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp02462412pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:46.29 | *** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp02462412pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 04:10.59 | brlcad | howdy |
| 04:16.01 | polyspin | Evenin. |
| 04:16.21 | polyspin | Noticed we don't build on OSX at the moment. Trying a rebuild to check that. |
| 04:20.58 | *** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.116.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) | |
| 04:29.00 | polyspin | Interseting. configure checks for X11/Intrinsic.h to see if X exists |
| 04:29.02 | polyspin | That check fails |
| 04:29.10 | polyspin | Thence Tk build fails. |
| 04:29.16 | brlcad | odd |
| 04:29.42 | brlcad | i've made a handful of changes for other plats, but nothing related to X11, iirc |
| 04:29.56 | polyspin | We don't seem to check in /usr/X11R6 I guess. |
| 04:31.31 | polyspin | Yet X_PREFIX is getting set to /usr/X11R6... stranger and stranger |
| 04:31.59 | PhantomBantam | I see stuff about x11, does this mean the mac binary will be up soon? |
| 04:32.09 | brlcad | PhantomBantam: working on it |
| 04:32.29 | PhantomBantam | That's good. |
| 04:33.18 | brlcad | polyspin: there's a single line that does the X checks in configure.in |
| 04:33.28 | brlcad | er, .ac |
| 04:34.25 | polyspin | AC_PATH_X ? |
| 04:34.34 | brlcad | yes |
| 04:35.11 | brlcad | if it's not finding X, I'd try to find what's changed.. |
| 04:35.17 | polyspin | Autoconf is 2.57. |
| 04:35.23 | polyspin | I just installed Xcode 1.5 |
| 04:35.29 | polyspin | (new machine image) |
| 04:35.32 | brlcad | ahh |
| 04:35.59 | brlcad | installed dev tools? or just xcode? |
| 04:36.21 | brlcad | oh, you know what.. probably didn't install teh X11 dev kit |
| 04:36.26 | polyspin | Dev toosl as well. |
| 04:36.50 | brlcad | X11 dev kit is a separate optional (disabled) install on the dev tools cd |
| 04:37.04 | polyspin | Gotcha. I'll go check that. |
| 04:39.17 | polyspin | Don't have the dev tools CD. Downloaded from developer.apple.com |
| 04:39.39 | brlcad | really.. couldn't find it there a week ago |
| 04:41.32 | polyspin | It says it was posted 06Aug2004 |
| 04:42.26 | brlcad | *shrug* |
| 04:42.38 | brlcad | just be sure it's the Dev one ;) |
| 04:43.04 | polyspin | It says "Xcode Tools v1.5 |
| 04:43.45 | polyspin | Found the X11 SDK |
| 04:44.24 | polyspin | Headers there now. Time for autogen, configure, make |
| 04:46.13 | brlcad | cool |
| 04:47.31 | polyspin | Wow, CHUD tools weren't installed by default either. How sad. |
| 05:00.45 | brlcad | bah |
| 05:00.57 | brlcad | 10.2 autogen.sh ends up with a 0 length configure |
| 05:01.01 | brlcad | yet no error |
| 05:02.21 | a_b_normal | yay autoconf! |
| 05:02.23 | a_b_normal | :) |
| 05:03.06 | polyspin | Sigh. |
| 05:04.11 | brlcad | ahh, autoconf 2.52 |
| 05:04.37 | polyspin | Let that be a lesson to us :-/ |
| 05:08.02 | brlcad | heh, can't make our cake and eat it too? :) |
| 05:08.15 | a_b_normal | as long as it's not apple pie |
| 05:08.45 | polyspin | You can't make a cake unles you have ants (snigger) |
| 05:09.04 | a_b_normal | i don't get it |
| 05:09.37 | polyspin | "cake" was the previous build system for BRL-CAD. "ants" is a new build system popular with java folks |
| 05:09.52 | polyspin | or is it "ant"? |
| 05:09.58 | a_b_normal | ah |
| 05:10.03 | a_b_normal | developer humor |
| 05:10.43 | brlcad | just ant I think |
| 05:11.07 | brlcad | scons has real promise |
| 05:12.13 | polyspin | as long as it isn't too much like "cmake" |
| 05:13.08 | polyspin | The web page for scons mentions some nice features. |
| 05:14.08 | brlcad | you can do a lot if you have to install your build environment before you build -- we could easily force only "autoconf 2.59 and automake 1.8 and libtool 1.5.10" and most of the build problems easily go away |
| 05:14.36 | brlcad | that's akin to installing ant/scons/whatever to me |
| 05:14.39 | polyspin | That's why we carried "cake" all those years. |
| 05:14.57 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:15.30 | brlcad | though it still was a real pita to modify |
| 05:15.36 | polyspin | It would be nice to add checks to see if autoconf is a high enough version to generate the build env |
| 05:16.02 | brlcad | versions notwithstanding, I'd pick this over cake even still |
| 05:16.03 | polyspin | Cake was a disgusting build system. Mostly inscrutable. |
| 05:16.13 | polyspin | Mike hacked long and hard on the "rules" files. |
| 05:16.23 | brlcad | this has "just worked" for a lot of folks - we got a compliment on it to the list just recently from one of the old cakers |
| 05:16.38 | brlcad | i can imagine |
| 05:17.02 | polyspin | I like it because A) other people understand it. B) we don't have to carry/build it. |
| 05:17.15 | polyspin | If (A) stops being the case, we can switch. |
| 05:17.33 | polyspin | Or if A applies to some other build system |
| 05:19.51 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:20.25 | brlcad | it's by far the biggest wart that we as in the industry put up with it seems |
| 05:20.39 | brlcad | cept maybe microsoft.. there's a wart that's tolerated for ya |
| 05:21.11 | polyspin | I personally think that the "wart" is that "autoconf" is necessary for a Unix system. |
| 05:21.17 | polyspin | Unix should have converged. |
| 05:36.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: match configure.ac's requirements. require autoconf 2.57 and specify automake 1.6.0 (unenforced). should probably try to pull the version mins directly ourselves. |
| 05:42.45 | brlcad | wow |
| 05:44.02 | brlcad | we've had about 2/3rds the num of source downloads as bz's last release did (source release) |
| 05:44.42 | polyspin | awesome. |
| 05:45.12 | brlcad | scary amount of interest :) |
| 05:45.34 | brlcad | more than I expected really, at least at first |
| 05:45.57 | polyspin | two words: Free CAD |
| 05:46.14 | brlcad | yep |
| 05:46.29 | polyspin | I'm waiting for the first distro to include, the first developer contributions, and the first contributed model |
| 05:46.30 | brlcad | New too |
| 05:46.54 | PhantomBantam | I don't mean to be a bother, but do you know when will the mac binary be available> |
| 05:47.12 | polyspin | Phantom: Linking now. |
| 05:47.22 | PhantomBantam | Sweet. |
| 05:47.26 | polyspin | If it goes well, we might upload tonight. |
| 05:47.39 | PhantomBantam | Awesome. |
| 05:47.58 | polyspin | Unless I have to sleep first :-( |
| 05:48.03 | brlcad | I was thinking Sunday myself :) |
| 05:48.19 | polyspin | It's Sunday now :-) |
| 05:48.57 | PhantomBantam | That it is. |
| 05:49.26 | brlcad | not it the timezones I feel like I'm in |
| 06:35.14 | polyspin | Have you heard of "swig" before? |
| 06:36.21 | polyspin | For a modest amount of work, we could have full bu/bn/rt support in python, Tcl, java and others. |
| 06:36.33 | polyspin | I've been playing with it tonight, and I've almost got it configured. |
| 06:36.51 | polyspin | There's one gotcha: It doesn't like name re-use. |
| 06:37.09 | polyspin | We have a number of structs, which also have variables or functions of the same name. |
| 06:37.36 | polyspin | If we were willing to change this, SWIG would generate the "wrapper" libraries for us. |
| 06:51.03 | brlcad | i've heard mention of it, but not whether it's good/bad/painful/painless etc. .. sounds like a potential middle layer |
| 06:51.48 | polyspin | It eats somthing that is pretty much a header file for C/C++ and generates the wrappers from the "extern" statements and data declarations. |
| 06:52.55 | brlcad | pretty much a header file? |
| 06:53.06 | brlcad | or is it really a header file with some labels of theirs |
| 06:53.20 | polyspin | It needs a few lines to tell it the name of the "package" you want to build. |
| 06:53.37 | polyspin | The second. |
| 06:54.22 | polyspin | I'm building the python wrap now. |
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| 07:17.09 | brlcad | hello fgq |
| 07:24.15 | polyspin | Good luck with bz |
| 07:24.33 | brlcad | thx |
| 07:24.46 | brlcad | brl-cad held it off long enough.. :) |
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| 07:47.05 | EricWilhelm | brlcad, the swig interface file has some typemaps and such that aren't standard header matter |
| 07:47.34 | brlcad | good to know |
| 07:47.49 | EricWilhelm | If you don't have any nested arrays (or even non-char arrays) in your header, it can try to "do the right thing" by just looking at a header file |
| 07:48.08 | EricWilhelm | but, to get (say) a proper perlish interface, you want to do some typemaps |
| 07:48.53 | EricWilhelm | I found that my CAD::Drawing::IO::DWGI module worked much better for making the OpenDWG library binding in a perlish way than the swig code. |
| 07:49.32 | EricWilhelm | IMO, the Inline.pm way of doing things is easier than swig, but that only gets you a perl binding. |
| 07:49.37 | brlcad | cept the end goal we were talking about was specifically intent on supporting about 5 different languages |
| 07:50.08 | brlcad | we can do those bindings manually.. but one slightly painful swig (or anything) is going to be better than 5 custom |
| 07:50.22 | brlcad | and those languages may change.. |
| 07:50.24 | EricWilhelm | I think the best way would be to lovingly craft a set of functions which raise the functionality level to something appropriate to each language. |
| 07:50.51 | EricWilhelm | failing that, if you can master typemaps with swig, that might do the trick. |
| 07:51.23 | EricWilhelm | trouble is, that if you don't pass data-structures, you tend to have functions with a lot of simple (float) parameters |
| 07:51.32 | EricWilhelm | so, you have perl code like: |
| 07:52.11 | EricWilhelm | ($x1, $y1, $z1, $x2, $y2, $z2) = do_stuff($x1a, ... ) |
| 07:52.20 | EricWilhelm | it's too painful for me to even type. |
| 07:52.54 | EricWilhelm | what I'm saying is that swig doesn't play nice (easily) with complex data structures |
| 07:53.21 | EricWilhelm | with shadow classes, it gets better, but a lot of arrays (in C) are read-only because swig can't derive how to extend them, etc. |
| 07:54.08 | EricWilhelm | It can be made to work with typemaps, but you need one for each type within each language. |
| 07:55.03 | EricWilhelm | I'm not sure what polyspin is working on, but let me know if I can be of some advice with the SWIG stuff. |
| 07:55.26 | brlcad | hrm.. we'll probably just have to test out some concrete bindings to perhaps libbu in a couple manners to see just how much is involved |
| 07:55.44 | brlcad | oh, i'm not exactly sure what his motivation was.. probaby a discussion we had last week |
| 07:58.39 | EricWilhelm | sounds cool. It would be great to be able to extend brlcad with perl. |
| 08:04.33 | brlcad | yes it would |
| 08:04.40 | brlcad | i'd prefer perl over tcl at least |
| 08:05.14 | brlcad | but then.. i'd prefer almost anything over tcl |
| 08:05.29 | brlcad | tcl's not bad.. there's just so much more that's better |
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| 22:39.16 | a_b_normal | shields up |
| 22:39.21 | a_b_normal | phaser... |
| 22:39.25 | a_b_normal | phsaers... |
| 22:39.29 | a_b_normal | FIRE! |
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| 23:13.43 | a_b_normal | yay |
| 23:13.53 | a_b_normal | i think i caught a cold |
| 23:14.01 | brlcad | great |
| 23:14.10 | a_b_normal | three hours of sleep a night since wed has taken it's toll! |
| 23:14.37 | brlcad | sounds like all you need is a solid day working out in the gym to take you out good ;) |
| 23:14.49 | a_b_normal | i might have another hernia :( |
| 23:15.02 | a_b_normal | actually, i think i have two |
| 23:15.44 | brlcad | then you can introduce one to the other |
| 23:15.50 | a_b_normal | hahah |
| 23:16.03 | a_b_normal | nut hernia.. meet the stomach.. stomach, say hello to nut |
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