irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050325

01:41.57 narnia well comnplex entity instances are not being handled correctly. that does not surprise me. i do not have a clear idea of how to validate a complex entity instance.
02:07.14 *** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p5481A784.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
03:34.33 narnia some iso standards are about as clear as mud.
05:47.42 *** join/#brlcad brlcad (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)
05:47.42 *** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)
05:47.42 *** mode/#brlcad [+oo brlcad learner] by irc.freenode.net
10:01.11 CIA-8 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (anim.tcl overlap.tcl): might as well make the other exec rm instances use file delete too for portability
14:33.07 narnia for some reason it is not handling 'vertex_point' correctly which causes other parts not to work.
14:52.31 *** join/#brlcad starseeker (~starseeke@ip68-106-90-53.hr.hr.cox.net)
14:52.36 starseeker Anybody around?
14:56.08 brlcad hello starseeker
14:56.11 brlcad been a while :)
14:57.39 starseeker Yep :-)
14:57.42 starseeker been busy
14:58.12 starseeker got to updating my system, and I'm trying to reset things so I can make a more "polite" version of the brlcad ebuild
14:58.23 starseeker Any idea what librt corresponds to?
14:58.51 starseeker or librt.la rather?
15:01.49 brlcad what do you mean corresponds to?
15:01.58 brlcad librt is one of brl-cad's core libraries
15:02.02 brlcad it's the raytrace library
15:02.28 brlcad 90% of the brl-cad binaries uses that library in some form .. so it corresponds to just about all of them
15:05.02 starseeker I know
15:05.07 starseeker I mean, outside of brlcad
15:05.26 starseeker it overwrote something else, that most of my gnome libraries are trying to link to
15:05.48 starseeker I can't for the life of me figure out what though
15:06.21 starseeker I'm almost to the point of the nuclear option, a total system re-emerge (probably not a bad idea anyway, really, but a real time sink)
15:07.19 brlcad so you have a system set up that does or does not have a librt already installed?
15:07.51 starseeker Had. brlcad overwrote it. but I don't think it was a raytracing library, unless google knows nothing about it
15:08.23 narnia starseeker, what distribution are you running?
15:08.28 starseeker Gentoo
15:09.02 narnia the old librt library should have been renamed libposix4 long ago.
15:09.32 starseeker Hmm. Are programs even still using that library?
15:09.47 Twingy librt?
15:09.48 narnia i thought solaris was the only one that still had the old names.
15:10.21 starseeker glibc has librt.so (I think) but doesn't seem to librt.la
15:10.43 narnia http://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_1.1.0/gLSB/app-librt.html
15:11.26 starseeker Yes - librt.so is a file owned by glibc
15:11.42 starseeker so is librt.a
15:11.46 starseeker but not librt.la
15:11.49 starseeker apparently
15:12.13 brlcad librt.la is a libtool library
15:12.20 brlcad brl-cad also installs the .a and .so
15:12.42 starseeker So libtool creates the .la file? how does that work?
15:13.04 brlcad yes, libtool makes the .la's
15:13.17 narnia starseeker, .la is a text file which is used by libtool to know which libraries are needed.
15:13.40 brlcad the libtool libraries keep track of everything that comprises the library, what libraries it depends on, which ones it linked against, etc
15:13.57 brlcad not strictly necessary to run, as the .so and .a are made from the .la's
15:14.03 brlcad but the .la isn't the problem :)
15:14.23 starseeker in this case it seems to be - apparently the glibc install didn't recreate the la file
15:14.24 starseeker grr
15:15.45 brlcad it's not likely that glibc has a .la and even if it did, overwriting it wouldn't cause run-time problems
15:15.46 brlcad the .so would be the problem
15:15.46 narnia brlcad, is librt a .a or .so?
15:16.17 brlcad uhm, librt is the name of the library
15:16.23 brlcad the .a is a static version of that library
15:16.38 brlcad the .so is a shared object version of that library
15:16.47 narnia nevermind
15:16.49 brlcad the .la is a libtool version of that library ;)
15:16.55 narnia agreed
15:17.05 brlcad brl-cad install's both shared and static
15:17.16 narnia looks like gentoo has a name collision.
15:17.41 starseeker oh, lots of them, when you put things in /usr/lib - tcl/tk is one, and there are a few others
15:18.01 narnia librt from glibc is colliding with brl-cad librt. two very different libs.
15:18.14 starseeker brlcad warned me - I guess that's why things normally go in /usr/brlcad
15:18.29 brlcad that is one of the reasons
15:18.40 brlcad librt is only one of several libraries that "can" conflict
15:20.09 brlcad libbn is another one .. openssl's "big number" library or brl-cad's "basic numerics" library
15:21.01 starseeker Normally it wouldn't be a problem, but I was trying to create an ebuild and was a bit of a doofus in the beginning...
15:21.32 brlcad there are about a half-dozen possible things that may conflict
15:21.42 brlcad that I know of
15:21.47 starseeker Heh - well, there's always the good old "touch /usr/lib/librt.la"
15:21.58 narnia ;-)
15:21.58 brlcad how to resolve them is still up for debate
15:22.17 starseeker brlcad : Is there a reason not to just name them brlcad-*libraryname*?
15:22.19 brlcad starseeker: how does that help?
15:22.31 starseeker it solves the name conflicts
15:22.50 starseeker oh - you mean touch? with any luck it will quit giving me file not found errors
15:23.01 starseeker we'll see if it actually NEEDS whatever was in there ;-)
15:24.07 brlcad starseeker: those are not libraries that can be renamed easily and I'm not inclined to rename them regardless
15:24.16 starseeker Hmm. OK.
15:24.32 starseeker not even just the file names?
15:24.53 starseeker keep the current filename, and just append a brlcad- to the front?
15:24.54 brlcad they predate the other libraries and have many applications that depend on them being named as such
15:25.16 narnia agreed
15:25.19 starseeker Oh, other than brlcad you mean?
15:25.23 brlcad that's the whole point -- appending anything to the front is not "keeping the current filename"
15:25.31 starseeker OK
15:26.27 brlcad I mean if they were new libraries and we had named something libgnome and found it conflicted, that's one thing
15:26.34 brlcad that's not the case here by a long shot
15:27.00 brlcad these are core libraries that are over two decades old (libbu, libbn, librt)
15:27.23 starseeker Hmm. wow
15:27.25 brlcad there are lots of external applications that use brl-cad's libraries
15:27.33 starseeker OK. Hmm.
15:27.42 starseeker What about adding it as a configure option?
15:27.43 brlcad so renmaing them would mean changing all of them
15:28.11 brlcad which would piss off lots of people and dilute the established name recognition
15:28.11 starseeker so systems where the other apps weren't an issue could change it, but the default would be the current system?
15:28.28 starseeker cool
15:28.56 brlcad starseeker: can you see if there are any gentoo guidelines on conflict resolution?
15:29.04 starseeker I'll take a look
15:29.05 brlcad this can't be the first instance
15:31.07 brlcad as a last resort we can either do what X11 does and use a top level root like /usr/brlcad/ or do something like java with isolated subdirs for libs/includes/etc like /usr/lib/brlcad/
15:31.53 brlcad I'm adding a configure-time hook for the latter for the debian apt system folks
15:32.08 brlcad so that would probably suffice for you too
15:32.16 starseeker Yes, that sounds good
15:32.29 starseeker simpler for you guys too - one mechanism to maintain
15:32.30 brlcad but if there's another means to resolve the conflict, I'd like to know
15:32.40 brlcad starseeker: it's a more complicated install, though
15:32.57 brlcad requires scripts that will add /usr/lib/brlcad to the system search path on installation
15:33.02 starseeker well, I haven't found anything gentoo specific yet, but what little I have seen indicates names of library filenames have to be unique
15:33.22 starseeker brlcad - I know, but I think there are mechanisms that do that
15:33.55 brlcad well of course they ultimately do need to be unique or exist in separate directories -- but if there are procedural means to get them resolved
15:34.38 starseeker Oh. I can't find anything about that yet - my guess is it just shows up in a bug report and people figure out what to do then
15:35.10 starseeker I think /usr/lib/brlcad should be fine - on checking I see the mozilla ebuild(s) have added a /usr/lib/mozilla entry
15:35.27 starseeker so has fltk
15:35.58 starseeker If a lousy web browser can add a line, I should think brlcad is entitled ;-)
15:36.16 brlcad still, if it can be resolved without that -- that would definitely be preferred
15:36.51 brlcad as developers end up needing to add multiple search paths to their build systems
15:37.44 starseeker Well, the only other option I can see is renaming the glibc library :-/
15:37.53 starseeker or those files rather
15:43.21 brlcad do you know if the portage maintainers are apposed to a /usr/brlcad ?
15:43.31 brlcad s/app/opp/
15:44.30 starseeker Dunno. Only real way is to submit an ebuild and find out
15:44.31 brlcad an installation similar to X11
15:45.28 starseeker Once I get my system back in order I'll see what I can put together
15:45.31 brlcad nobody authoritative on #gentoo?
15:45.35 starseeker Nah
15:46.02 starseeker I'll give it a shot, but it's more of a help channel - I'll probably get lost in the noise
15:46.26 brlcad ack, they're growing too
15:49.52 starseeker Well, the fltk ebuild looks fairly straightforward
15:51.10 starseeker Hmm - maybe ranlib is what I need for librt.a -> librt.la
15:51.25 brlcad ranlib gives the .a
15:51.31 starseeker crud
15:51.41 brlcad libtool makes the .la
15:52.03 brlcad libtool runs ranlib (or whatever your system needs) and makes the .so and .a at compile time
15:52.04 starseeker any way to run libtool on a individual file?
15:52.13 brlcad it doesn't work that way
15:52.21 brlcad I'm not following what the problem is, though
15:52.31 starseeker I'll show you the build output in a sec...
15:52.36 brlcad if you're missing librt.la, there's a bigger problem
15:53.01 starseeker uh oh
15:59.13 starseeker Crud.
15:59.16 starseeker libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/librt.la'
16:01.00 starseeker Well, gotta run for now - I'll let y'all know once I come up with a more friendly ebuild for gentoo
16:01.16 starseeker thanks for the help!
16:04.52 narnia something tells me he is going to have to at least re-install glibc.
16:25.09 brlcad why libtool is wanting /usr/lib/librt.la seems wrong
16:25.12 brlcad maybe a stale build
17:30.48 narnia no idea i have never tried gentoo.
17:43.42 narnia argh i think the ap203.exp i am using is incorrect.
20:26.29 *** join/#brlcad CIA-10 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.