irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050408

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14:22.25 brlcad i should make the "real name" the users web browser, I think
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17:39.23 nvdstruis Hello all
17:39.52 brlcad hello :)
17:39.58 brlcad i see you finally found a client that works?
17:40.15 nvdstruis yes, you mean an irc client ?
17:40.20 brlcad yep
17:40.33 nvdstruis I'm using firefox
17:40.39 brlcad cgi:irc can be a pain
17:40.55 nvdstruis I'm not into IRC, yet
17:41.08 brlcad you might like xchat or irssi much better if you hang around more
17:41.16 brlcad the web-based interface is rather limiting
17:41.27 brlcad but certainly useable enough (with the right browsers)
17:41.42 nvdstruis thanks again for your help
17:42.06 brlcad haven't helped you yet I think, but you're welcome ;)
17:42.40 nvdstruis yes, you helped me solve the question I posted about the linker errors
17:42.53 brlcad ahh, okay
17:43.02 brlcad thought the name looked familiar
17:43.16 nvdstruis right :) it's the same
17:43.26 brlcad sorry it took so long .. :)
17:43.42 brlcad would have taked about 4 days less in here :)
17:43.52 nvdstruis oh, actually I was very happy it worked
17:44.14 brlcad what version did you say you were using there? 7.2.2?
17:44.25 nvdstruis yes, 7.2.2
17:44.55 brlcad hrm, that's rather odd that you needed -lm -ldl -lpthread then
17:45.12 nvdstruis I haven't used anything else then the mged and raytrace stuff though
17:45.33 brlcad you have seen the tutorial manuals?
17:45.44 nvdstruis yes a little
17:45.49 brlcad k
17:46.10 nvdstruis are you a brlcad core developer?
17:46.15 brlcad might I ask what sort of application you're looking to develop?
17:46.20 brlcad yes
17:46.37 nvdstruis sure, but it will take time to explain
17:46.46 brlcad and I manage most of the open source activities to boot too
17:47.01 nvdstruis first I will explain some background
17:47.19 nvdstruis I work with TNO in the Netherlands
17:47.46 nvdstruis we are like the defense research institute
17:48.49 nvdstruis they use brlcad components at my work for building models of tanks and ships at my work
17:49.03 nvdstruis and for raytracing of course
17:49.17 nvdstruis still there ?
17:49.22 brlcad oooh, TNO :)
17:49.28 nvdstruis ok
17:49.39 brlcad yes, I fade in and out.. if I don't answer, I'm within earshot
17:49.58 nvdstruis a was asked to implement a model for heat transfer in ship compartments
17:50.06 brlcad or I'll read the log when I return.. another benefit of a non-cgi:irc irc client
17:50.15 nvdstruis ok
17:50.18 brlcad okay
17:50.23 brlcad do you know Wim?
17:50.50 nvdstruis Wim Bokkers I presume ? Yes, he's a collegue
17:51.02 brlcad yes, he's the guy
17:51.10 brlcad good to know
17:51.15 brlcad sorry for the interruptions, continue ;)
17:51.50 nvdstruis so, I needed to evaluate so called shape factors of components like walls in a compartment
17:52.12 nvdstruis they are an important parameter in radiation heat transfer
17:52.43 brlcad okay
17:53.05 brlcad we do something similar in our analysis codes
17:53.09 nvdstruis analytical relations are available to determine those shape factors for simple well defined configurations
17:53.25 nvdstruis like perpendicular rectangular surfaces
17:54.04 nvdstruis but a problem arises, because not all compartments are perfectly shaped boxes :)
17:54.19 brlcad i can imagine :)
17:55.00 brlcad slightly unsquare peg into a square hole kind of problem or more like a sphere into box problem?
17:55.01 nvdstruis I read a book on radiation heat transfer and found a so called Monte Carlo simulation to determine these shape factors
17:55.52 nvdstruis exactly, real world compartments with odd shapes
17:57.26 nvdstruis the Monte Carlo simulation says I should emit a ray from a random surface position in a random direction, a lot of times
17:57.41 brlcad Btw, before I forget yet again, did you know that you could have compiled and ran rtexample from the source distribution? it gets built along with everything else -- cd src/rt ; rm rtexample ; make rtexample
17:57.49 brlcad it just doesn't get installed
17:58.06 nvdstruis then I should evaluate I didn't kow
17:58.09 nvdstruis know
17:58.32 brlcad yes, monte carlo estimation is useful
17:58.41 brlcad it's can be very slow to converge though
17:59.12 nvdstruis yes, I hoped that with a fast library it could be acceptable
17:59.18 brlcad the photon mapping lighting model in brl-cad is a pseudo monte carlo estimation
17:59.54 nvdstruis why pseudo ? because it is somehow controlled ?
18:00.20 brlcad how different are your various shape factors? it might be easier to classify via some other known metrics
18:00.30 brlcad it is controlled/bounded
18:01.06 brlcad it doesn't continue to a tolerance, it continues to what you specify and it works in phases
18:01.38 brlcad there's first a photon propagation step that is a monte carlo distribution
18:01.52 nvdstruis I don't really know how different the shape factors are
18:01.57 brlcad then multiple gathering and computation phases
18:02.38 nvdstruis I should check that out, could save a lot of time
18:02.42 brlcad if they are very well defined shapes that are very different, you can know the shape information almost instantly using the known object types
18:03.30 brlcad but if the shapes are complex and only slightly different, you are probably better off with a MC simulation
18:03.55 nvdstruis I would like to compare those two options
18:05.09 brlcad need to know what your shape factors are first :)
18:05.41 brlcad btw, you can tell bokkers that I'm hoping to make some more progress on windows this weekend ;)
18:06.03 nvdstruis ok, he's anxious I guess
18:06.04 brlcad I feel bad that it's taken this long, but there's been very little I can do about it officially
18:06.18 brlcad i make progress on my own time when I can
18:06.45 nvdstruis I have similar time problems :)
18:07.07 nvdstruis would like to learn better programming for example
18:07.08 brlcad the political environment is very unfavorable right now for working on that, but being open source definitely has helped
18:07.18 brlcad we now have lots of groups openly working on various problems
18:07.37 nvdstruis has it worked out well, being open source?
18:07.53 brlcad it's worked out great..
18:07.54 nvdstruis because of feedback from users ?
18:08.11 brlcad there's been an explosion of feedback and interest
18:08.27 nvdstruis cool, that's how it should be
18:08.37 nvdstruis with all software
18:08.37 brlcad we're the only open source solid modeler, with a large existing userbase, with a fair bit of documentation already
18:08.57 brlcad millions of $$$ already invested, mature cross-platform software
18:09.12 brlcad now we just have to fix the dang modeler :)
18:09.24 brlcad make it less fugly
18:09.31 nvdstruis :) fugly ??
18:09.38 brlcad f'ing ugly :)
18:09.52 nvdstruis that's what I guessed :)
18:10.25 nvdstruis I have to go, diner time
18:10.33 nvdstruis I'll get back monday
18:10.37 brlcad nice talking to you, cya around
18:10.42 nvdstruis cya
18:10.52 brlcad again, if nobody answers, go ahead and idle and I'll respond
18:11.03 brlcad and into the night he flees
18:11.27 brlcad or maybe it was fleas
18:12.08 brlcad onward and outbound, to the bellybutton and beyond!
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22:26.36 cad929 Can anyone help with a BRL-CAD OS X install from CVS source?

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