| 01:00.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Anim_Tutorial/ (Makefile.am index.html Butler.html Murdza.html): remove specific references to ARL addresses |
| 01:43.27 | brlcad | mm.. lots of e-mail |
| 01:43.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (35 files in 16 dirs): remove specific references to ARL addresses. instead use brlcad.org mail aliases and the new sf.net mailing lists. |
| 02:47.08 | Twingy | ../email_sean.sh & |
| 02:47.12 | Twingy | oops |
| 02:48.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ReleaseNotes/Rel5.0/Summary/ (22 files): get rid of index.htm and just keep/reference index.html |
| 03:03.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ReleaseNotes/Rel5.0/Summary/ (38 files): damn dos carriage returns, s/\r//g |
| 03:16.45 | Twingy | 'lo |
| 03:17.02 | Twingy | my pic microcontroller doesn't want to work |
| 03:20.44 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:40.11 | narnia | Twingy, does brl-cad run on a pic microcontroller? ;-) |
| 03:40.51 | Twingy | erm |
| 03:41.02 | Twingy | on about 50,000 of them maybe |
| 03:41.13 | Twingy | I could fit my raytracing engine on one though ;) |
| 04:04.01 | *** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com) | |
| 04:05.28 | narnia | tom sawyer, ate the network cable yet again. yet another splice. |
| 04:05.59 | narnia | need to run that cable in plastic conduit so he cannot get to it. |
| 04:39.13 | Twingy | cool |
| 04:39.18 | Twingy | got the controller working |
| 04:39.23 | Twingy | running at 1KHz *flex* |
| 04:54.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ReleaseNotes/Rel5.0/Summary/Makefile.am: one entry per line, sorted. |
| 05:00.38 | narnia | okay, if i was to paint the network cables with tabasco sauce and let it dry do you think that would stop tom sawyer from eating the cables? |
| 05:00.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Anim_Tutorial/Makefile.am: one entry per line, sorted. |
| 05:05.10 | brlcad | narnia: nah, tobasco isn't very hot .. go with some better habanero extract from a sauce shop |
| 05:05.22 | brlcad | a few drops on a cable will keep him away for sure |
| 05:29.40 | narnia | brlcad, habanero you say. |
| 05:30.24 | narnia | brlcad, could just smear ben-gay all over the cable. |
| 07:12.13 | *** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org) | |
| 07:29.23 | Fikrann | Hello |
| 10:59.24 | *** join/#brlcad cad529 (~d5d7718f@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:02.48 | Fikrann | Hello |
| 11:05.34 | *** join/#brlcad kernoz (~chatzilla@213.215.113.143) | |
| 11:14.01 | Fikrann | Hello |
| 11:22.33 | kernoz | ciao |
| 12:57.19 | Fikrann | Hello brl |
| 13:09.27 | *** join/#brlcad farny (HydraIRC@bb219-74-63-91.singnet.com.sg) | |
| 13:16.18 | farny | hi |
| 13:16.41 | farny | got a question |
| 13:17.37 | farny | i downloaded an win32 installer for brlcad 6 from here: http://ftp.arl.mil/brlcad/preGPL/meeting2002/cd.html |
| 13:17.49 | farny | and it asks me for a key when i install |
| 13:22.17 | farny | where can i get a key? |
| 13:23.12 | farny | i'm gonna try compiling the latest release |
| 13:23.28 | farny | once i install gentoo on my amd64 |
| 13:26.28 | Fikrann | go get Ubuntu instead, you'll save four, five days of needless work |
| 13:29.09 | farny | really? |
| 13:29.48 | Fikrann | Yes .. setting gentoo up is a long and arduous task. |
| 13:30.00 | farny | i'm thinking of just using the grp first |
| 13:30.24 | Fikrann | Then you'd better be off using another binary distro .. |
| 13:30.35 | farny | but my sata raid seems to pose a problem for the 2.6 kernel |
| 13:30.46 | farny | gentoo seems quite cool though |
| 13:32.30 | Fikrann | gentoo seems cool, yes, but its annoying and hard to manage in the long term. Believe me, I've been through it, with about ten successful installations on various machines. |
| 13:33.21 | Fikrann | Getoo is pure-geek distro. |
| 13:36.48 | farny | hmm |
| 13:37.24 | farny | let me try it 4 myself :) |
| 13:37.39 | farny | i love banging my head against the wall |
| 13:38.26 | Fikrann | hehe |
| 13:39.24 | Fikrann | Well, be sure to have at least three days free to spend in front of your monitor, staring at make output scrolling before your eyes. |
| 13:44.59 | farny | :D |
| 13:45.11 | farny | man, i could stare at it for weeks i swear :) |
| 13:45.43 | farny | just kidding actually i think the stock gentoo 2.6 kernel is choking on my sata raid |
| 13:45.58 | farny | i may have to reconfigure, or go for a pata raid |
| 13:46.03 | farny | or sata no-raid |
| 13:47.28 | Fikrann | I'd suggest sata no-raid. |
| 13:49.24 | Fikrann | Then, if you require raid 1,3,5,6, go for md (and wait for your hardware sata raid driver to stabilise) if you need raid 0, go for LVM which thousandfold more flexible. |
| 13:49.35 | farny | yeah, pata raid depends on the shop guys taking back my sata disks and giving me pata |
| 13:49.49 | farny | i'm just going 4 raid 1 |
| 13:50.05 | farny | too cheap to do 0+1 |
| 13:50.12 | farny | and dun really know what the other numbers mean |
| 13:50.23 | Fikrann | then md should be enough for you. Really, I don't think you'd really need raid.. |
| 13:50.35 | farny | my raid isn't hardware, it's crappy software |
| 13:50.48 | farny | md = mirror drive = raid 0? |
| 13:51.06 | Fikrann | md == multiple devices == Linux software raid. |
| 13:51.55 | farny | wait linux can do it's own software raid even if your mobo can't? |
| 13:52.48 | Fikrann | of course. |
| 13:52.57 | farny | whoa |
| 13:53.01 | farny | i din know that |
| 13:53.12 | farny | can do raid 1? |
| 13:53.22 | Fikrann | What do you need a raid array for? |
| 13:53.39 | farny | i guess i just want faster read/writes |
| 13:53.46 | Fikrann | yes, it can. jbod, 0, 1, 10, 3, 5, 6. |
| 13:53.53 | farny | jbod? |
| 13:54.19 | Fikrann | just a bunch of disks, concatenation, very poor mans version of 0 (w/o stripping). |
| 13:54.25 | learner | farny, release 6 was under a different license agreement |
| 13:54.33 | learner | you had to request a decryption key |
| 13:55.33 | learner | that release is a preview release intended for developers, it's not exactly useful/intended for non-developers |
| 13:55.54 | farny | really? |
| 13:56.07 | farny | fikrann i think that doesn't improve the speed then |
| 13:56.16 | farny | i was looking forward to striping |
| 13:56.42 | farny | anyway learner so it's not possible to get a decryption key somehow? |
| 13:57.23 | learner | it's "possible" .. but very highly discouraged :) |
| 13:57.26 | Fikrann | farny, jbod doesn't. You might want to look at LVM, which can offer r/w speed increase through stripping, along with greatly enhanced volume management abilities. |
| 13:57.30 | farny | and can brlcad be compiled in windows? i could only find compilation instructions for linux and osx |
| 13:57.34 | learner | especially if you're not a coder :) |
| 13:58.16 | learner | farny, the windows port is under active development.. much progress has been made since that binary release too |
| 13:58.18 | farny | in other words, u need 2 modify certain places in the source? ok that's probably too much 4 me |
| 13:58.27 | farny | ok |
| 13:59.25 | farny | whoa a geeky gal |
| 13:59.26 | farny | :p |
| 13:59.39 | learner | it means you're highly likely to run into a problem that would need to be reported back -- something a dev should be easily familiar with |
| 13:59.59 | farny | oh ok |
| 14:00.20 | farny | btw i get the impression that the linux n osx versions use the same sources, as there's only 1 source, is that right? |
| 14:00.29 | learner | there is only 1 source |
| 14:00.35 | learner | even the windows port uses the same source |
| 14:00.43 | farny | how can that be? i thought u'd need slightly different sources 4 diff platforms? |
| 14:00.50 | learner | Tk |
| 14:01.17 | Fikrann | Conditional compilation is key term here }:> |
| 14:01.39 | learner | Tk abstracts most of the platform-specific details, the rest is taken care of in the code conditionally |
| 14:02.02 | learner | bleh, s/nads/nods/ |
| 14:02.53 | Fikrann | }:> |
| 14:05.52 | farny | whoa |
| 14:06.06 | farny | Tk seems pretty amazing |
| 14:06.44 | Fikrann | tcl/tk are nice but somewhat aging. |
| 14:07.18 | farny | really? so what's cool now? |
| 14:07.30 | farny | do they have successors? |
| 14:09.38 | Fikrann | Various other widget/crossplatform portability packages .. Qt, WxWindows, xForms to name the few I can recall right now. |
| 14:09.57 | Fikrann | SDL, for games. Clanlib, too. |
| 14:12.10 | farny | ok cool |
| 14:12.17 | farny | i've heard of the 1st 3 |
| 14:13.33 | learner | quite aging, not my personal pref :) |
| 14:14.33 | learner | now clanlib is something I rather like.. they've evolved nicely over the years |
| 14:14.57 | learner | i couldn't consider them for the longest time because they hadn't added an opengl context yet, but they have that now too |
| 14:15.26 | Fikrann | ahh |
| 14:15.43 | learner | sdl is nice, we converted bz's platform code to sdl a while back |
| 14:16.01 | Fikrann | hmm .. bz? |
| 14:17.08 | Fikrann | ahh .. yes, I seen your post on linux-cad mail list }:> |
| 14:17.17 | learner | a relatively old game that has it's origins on sgi |
| 14:17.46 | learner | hmm.. I posted something to linux-cad about bzflag? :) |
| 14:17.48 | Fikrann | bzflag good. Liked it very much .. unfortunately had not much luck with online mode. |
| 14:18.33 | learner | are you on a modem? |
| 14:18.47 | Fikrann | When I tried, I was using a modem, yes. |
| 14:18.58 | learner | that would be the only possible problem other than being behind a firewall |
| 14:19.45 | learner | yeah, you can't play on a server that has more than about 8 players with a modem and that's even tough just because of your latency |
| 14:21.15 | Fikrann | Yes .. |
| 14:24.17 | farny | sorry 2 interrupt, but r u guys talking about some kind of online game? |
| 14:24.40 | Fikrann | yes, bzflag is a cool multiplayer game. |
| 14:25.58 | farny | what's it like? |
| 14:26.01 | farny | counter-strike? |
| 14:26.10 | Fikrann | heh |
| 14:27.46 | Fikrann | a 3D first person tank battle game |
| 14:27.47 | Fikrann | BZFlag is a 3D multi-player multiplatform tank battle game |
| 14:27.47 | Fikrann | that allows users to play against each other in a network |
| 14:27.47 | Fikrann | environment. There are five teams: red, green, blue, |
| 14:27.47 | Fikrann | purple and rogue (rogue tanks are black). Destroying a |
| 14:27.48 | Fikrann | player on another team scores a win, while being destroyed |
| 14:27.49 | Fikrann | or destroying a teammate scores a loss. Rogues have no |
| 14:27.51 | Fikrann | teammates (not even other rogues), so they cannot shoot |
| 14:27.54 | Fikrann | teammates and they do not have a team score. |
| 14:28.27 | Fikrann | There are two main styles of play: capture-the-flag and |
| 14:28.27 | Fikrann | free-for-all. In capture-the-flag, each team (except |
| 14:28.27 | Fikrann | rogues) has a team base and each team with at least one |
| 14:28.27 | Fikrann | player has a team flag. The object is to capture an enemy |
| 14:28.27 | Fikrann | team's flag by bringing it to your team's base. This |
| 14:28.58 | Fikrann | destroys every player on the captured team, subtracts one |
| 14:28.58 | Fikrann | from that team's score, and adds one to your team's score. |
| 14:28.58 | Fikrann | In free-for-all, there are no team flags or team bases. |
| 14:28.58 | Fikrann | The object is simply to get as high a score as possible. |
| 14:29.29 | learner | hehe |
| 14:29.46 | Fikrann | Description courtesy Debian package database }:> |
| 14:30.13 | learner | farny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BZFlag |
| 14:31.38 | learner | hmm.. maybe after another iteration or two I can get back to updating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD |
| 14:32.48 | learner | course I suppose our own website is a little higher priority |
| 14:33.15 | learner | rather lame right now, imho |
| 14:35.08 | farny | interesting game |
| 14:36.41 | learner | it is a little like counterstrike in slow motion, with tanks that jump instead of people |
| 14:36.56 | learner | though I stick to the non-jumping maps myself |
| 14:47.12 | Fikrann | I always wished the maps could be more detailed .. |
| 14:48.11 | farny | lol i can just imagine |
| 14:48.20 | farny | cs with jumping tanks instead of pple |
| 14:48.25 | farny | :p |
| 14:51.38 | learner | Fikrann, since 2.0.0 they can be as detailed as you like |
| 14:51.56 | learner | no longer just boxes, pyramids, and teleporters |
| 14:52.09 | learner | maps can be arbitrary meshes |
| 14:52.26 | learner | so you could actually play on a CS map or a quake world, etc |
| 14:54.03 | Fikrann | ahh, that's good. |
| 14:54.22 | learner | a simple example: http://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/aztec.jpg |
| 14:55.39 | learner | http://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/tree_cut.jpg |
| 14:56.22 | Fikrann | Now only to add hovertank style movements (like in modern day Battle Zone I and II) and I won't do any work for next two months };> |
| 14:56.45 | learner | hehe |
| 14:57.53 | Fikrann | I simply loved these two games. |
| 14:58.50 | farny | learner what r u raiding? |
| 15:20.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Make the idle_mode method public |
| 15:23.23 | *** join/#brlcad cad617 (~80f4e9b8@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:11.21 | *** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org) | |
| 16:30.43 | farny | k thx 4 your help guys |
| 16:30.47 | farny | n fikrann too |
| 16:31.02 | farny | maybe i'll pop by again once i'm ready 2 compile brl on linux |
| 16:36.54 | brlcad | farny: i'm not "raiding" anything.. I"m trying to recover from an impending failure of a third disk on a big raid 5 array |
| 16:38.15 | brlcad | poor old disk array has held up quite well for this long, but it's on the edge of failure now with several dead disks that havne't been replaced yet |
| 16:38.23 | brlcad | nice to see the filesystems withstand 3 dead disks though |
| 16:47.28 | narnia | brlcad, i am at the point i need to ensure that the ap's, ir's, and aic's i am using are indeed valid. i have so far determined that the 10303-203-aim-long.exp file from steptools is not valid. i cannot generate it from the 10303-203-aim-short.exp, ir's and aic's. this is what i was talking about yesterday. when the 10303 part 2xx short form, ir's or aic's change the 10303 part 2xx long form is out-of-date. there is no provision in the 10303 part 2 |
| 16:47.28 | narnia | xx long form to indicate what versions/editions of 10303 part 2xx short form, ir's and aic's where used to create it. |
| 16:48.06 | narnia | the iso 10303 parts appear to be out-of-sync. |
| 16:51.55 | narnia | i assume that someone has a test suite for testing short-to-long, express language parser, part21 support, ap203 and ap214 conformance. i just have not found that test suite yet. |
| 16:53.23 | brlcad | it's not "valid" or it's simply not up to date with the latest short forms? |
| 16:53.25 | narnia | supporting express language, part21, ap203 and ap214 just keeps getting deeper and deeper. |
| 16:54.15 | brlcad | i'd expect the long/short forms available directly from the iso website to be close to as reliable as there is |
| 16:55.25 | narnia | brlcad, the 10303-203-aim-long.exp is invalid. fedex and express parser both agree that it is indeed invalid. |
| 16:57.08 | narnia | i need to send an e-mail to the step-os e-mail list. see if anyone there can shed some light on this situation. |
| 16:58.55 | brlcad | okay, that file you have is supposedly invalid, but where is that from? |
| 16:59.00 | narnia | brlcad, i have no way of knowing if the 10303-203-aim-long.exp is what is currently in iso-10303-203 |
| 16:59.34 | narnia | the 10303-203-aim-long.exp file came from steptools.com. |
| 17:00.34 | narnia | specifically, http://www.steptools.com/sc4/archive/ |
| 17:01.05 | narnia | i pulled the entire archive out of their cvs server. |
| 17:01.54 | brlcad | the iso store had both long and short .exp's available for download (old and new, iirc) |
| 17:02.23 | narnia | i did not know that. would you happen to remember the url? |
| 17:04.20 | brlcad | i'm not on a box with a gui right this moment, but I'll dig it up next chance |
| 17:05.47 | narnia | i am searching www.iso.ch as we chat. |
| 17:06.10 | brlcad | something iso.org i believe |
| 17:57.45 | narnia | brlcad, since i am deep into iso-10303 do you think it be worth trying to see if http://pdesinc.aticorp.org/requirements.html would create a special membership for opensource developers? in theory that would give me access to all iso-10303 documents. like i said in theory. |
| 18:00.21 | narnia | brlcad, i can easily meet the 1800 hours per year. i mean it is not like i am going anywhere anytime soon. |
| 18:07.09 | narnia | that works out to 150 hrs per month or 3.75 weeks ( assuming 40 hours per week ). |
| 18:09.53 | Axios | how many working hours work per week is normal in the US.? |
| 18:22.30 | narnia | Axios, fulltime is normally assumed to be 40hrs. many jobs are less than that now days. employers do not want to pay benefits so they hire part-time for about 30 hrs per week. therefore, many people must work more than one job. |
| 18:23.53 | narnia | Axios, even at 40 hrs per week, the retail sales clerk is probably only earning minimum wage. |
| 18:24.42 | narnia | Axios, if a person is salaried and not hourly the number of hours worked per week will be more than 40 hrs per week. |
| 18:25.34 | narnia | Axios, the two items hurting the working poor are 0) medical expenses 1) energy costs. |
| 18:27.42 | narnia | Axios, basically employment is the usa sucks at the moment. |
| 18:28.19 | brlcad | narnia: interesting thought .. looks like only 900 hours per year for groups doing STEP product development |
| 18:29.10 | brlcad | Axios: and some consistently put in 50-80 hours a week with or without overtime pay |
| 18:29.18 | brlcad | at a single job |
| 18:29.35 | brlcad | varies from job to job, employer to employer, person to person |
| 18:30.03 | brlcad | 40 is "full-time" though .. that's generally what's expected |
| 18:30.49 | narnia | Axios, if you happen to have any physical challenges forget about finding a job. |
| 18:31.24 | brlcad | heh, he did only ask how many hours, yes? :) |
| 18:31.46 | narnia | Axios, employers do not like "handicapped" employees. the americans with disabilities act (ada) is not worth the paper it is written on. |
| 18:32.02 | narnia | brlcad, true. sorry. sore point. |
| 18:32.18 | brlcad | points well taken regardless :) |
| 18:33.49 | narnia | brlcad, so should i give pdes membership a try? |
| 18:38.29 | brlcad | if it's going to be on behalf of BRL-CAD development, I should probably contact them |
| 18:38.59 | brlcad | I'll read that in full this evening |
| 18:43.42 | narnia | brlcad, i think at this point there are basically two projects: all the 10303 parts as a standalone project independent of brl-cad and all the 10303 parts integrated into brl-cad. |
| 18:45.49 | brlcad | yes, there are two -- which is in part why I want to contact them myself for BRL-CAD |
| 18:45.51 | narnia | btw, 10303-42e3 ( edition 3 ) from steptools express archives is also invalid. |
| 18:46.31 | narnia | so i contact them for the other part? |
| 18:46.56 | brlcad | brl-cad has a fair bit of industry clout with it's history, lots of folks know about it and i don't want to get into the process of mixing waters |
| 18:47.27 | narnia | understand. |
| 18:47.54 | brlcad | also have to be careful about how this all relates back to ARL and/or the Gov't .. I have to make sure they understand the distinction on the open source side |
| 18:49.26 | brlcad | e.g. on their member chart, there is also a section for gov't that involves more resource contributions |
| 18:49.47 | narnia | so you are going to explain the two projects together? |
| 18:50.25 | narnia | understand |
| 18:50.38 | narnia | where did you see the 900hrs? |
| 18:51.39 | brlcad | Note #2 |
| 18:53.03 | brlcad | their definition of "internal" raises question, but the basic idea sounds like work that's a private benefit can count |
| 18:53.34 | brlcad | if it's purely saying those hours can count towards the 1800, then it's still 1800 and in this case everything is public |
| 18:53.59 | brlcad | Interesting: Comprehensive vendor testbed that includes all major CAD systems and STEP translators |
| 18:56.58 | narnia | i figured after reading the benefits it would be worth a try for me personally to contact pdes about an opensource developer membership. |
| 18:57.00 | brlcad | 1800 hours is approximately one man-year's worth of time |
| 18:57.30 | narnia | yes, if you believe in 'man-year'. ;-) |
| 18:58.04 | narnia | how to make a project, which all ready late, later. throw more people at it. ;-) |
| 18:59.01 | brlcad | yep |
| 18:59.13 | brlcad | still need to read the mythical man month |
| 18:59.31 | brlcad | though I've heard most of the ideas I believe |
| 18:59.33 | narnia | so i take it from what you have said above there are really two brl-cads. the opensource brl-cad and the internal to arl brl-cad. |
| 19:00.39 | brlcad | Well, one "brl-cad" .. and we're looking on writing up a change management plan that describes just what that all means |
| 19:01.00 | brlcad | but there are definitely two distinctly separate interests involved |
| 19:01.13 | brlcad | both legally and feature-wise |
| 19:04.49 | brlcad | the biggest "problem" is that ARL is a government entity, that gives brl-cad both many benefits implicitly and several complications in terms of names and representation |
| 19:05.26 | brlcad | i.e. several other groups will give another gov't group, especially one like arl, certain benefits "for free" where they otherwise would not .. |
| 19:06.13 | brlcad | that happens as there's also the implicit understanding that the gov't will not financially benefit/hurt or otherwise impact them (federal statutes require this) |
| 19:06.55 | brlcad | so asking for membership and using the name brl-cad carries with it certain level of responsibility to make it clear just who is asking and agreeing to what |
| 19:07.53 | brlcad | I think the case can be made pretty easy to get "the open source BRL-CAD software development team" a membership with pdes, inc. |
| 19:08.25 | brlcad | could probably make an even easier case for getting ARL a membership as a gov't institution |
| 19:09.31 | brlcad | the case for "open source developers at large not affiliated with anyone" is a much harder case, imo |
| 19:12.58 | brlcad | I'll ask them if they'd be willing to reduce the annual resource contribution in exchange for some other reduction of benefit since the financial obligations would be personal obligations for us as open source developers |
| 19:13.16 | brlcad | unless we form a developer entity, which I've also been considering |
| 19:15.33 | brlcad | narnia: ahh, I found the site that had the .exp files.. www.tc184-sc4.org but they're apparently having issues right now |
| 19:20.04 | brlcad | http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:8nb7w32Cs2cJ:www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Work_Products_Documents/STEP_(10303)/200-299/documentation.cfm+iso++10303+203&hl=en |
| 19:26.28 | Axios | narnia: it's a bit different in Denmark |
| 19:26.38 | Axios | a normal working week is 37 hours |
| 19:27.01 | Axios | all medical things is payed for by the goverment |
| 19:27.10 | Axios | schools, universitys to |
| 19:27.21 | Axios | I actually get "paid" to go to school |
| 19:27.42 | brlcad | you only generally get paid to go to school in the u.s. if you're going for a Ph.D |
| 19:27.50 | brlcad | or if your company pays for it |
| 19:28.09 | Axios | You also get payed for a Ph.D here, a lot more than what I get |
| 19:28.19 | Axios | I get around 650 USD a month |
| 19:29.12 | Axios | A Ph.D would get something like 3000 USD a month |
| 19:29.41 | Axios | or systems are very different |
| 19:30.05 | Axios | in Denmark you cant be really rich, and you cant be really poor |
| 19:30.27 | Axios | but you can be somewhat rich, and somewhat poor |
| 19:30.54 | brlcad | narnia: I'll craft a message to pdes and copy you on it -- there's about 1 man-month that would implicitly get taken up by meetings, another three or so could be expected from myself -- that leaves a need for about 8 man months to account for unless they're willing to negotiate (which they probably would) |
| 19:32.54 | narnia | brlcad, so you are going to reference both projects. okay. |
| 19:33.51 | brlcad | yeah, there's a clear direction you've already been going in that includes stuff outside of brl-cad |
| 19:34.52 | brlcad | I'd include that in our talks (and perhaps even "bill" them for the 3-4 man-months or so of time that's already been put into it) |
| 19:35.42 | brlcad | but push it forward under the auspices of "open source brl-cad development" unless you have objections, since that would be more easy to justify/explain |
| 19:39.08 | brlcad | interesting, per their membership details, we would be neither users nor vendors as we are not commercial entities.. could just be simplified wording, though for the presentation slides |
| 19:41.59 | brlcad | narnia: have you made any long-term plans for what you plan to do with the scl? |
| 19:45.08 | narnia | brlcad, the first long-term item is to fix the parser situation. |
| 19:45.36 | brlcad | i mean as a project, though .. |
| 19:46.06 | brlcad | do you intend to post up your modifications? keep it internal to yourself? make an sf.net project for scl? |
| 19:46.28 | brlcad | the latter was what I had in mind, either that, or bring it in to brl-cad under a separate cvs module |
| 19:46.39 | brlcad | let you go hog-wild with it there ;) |
| 19:46.56 | narnia | brlcad, ultimate goal to be a complete validated iso-10303 opensource development environment. |
| 19:47.38 | brlcad | eek.. all of 10303? :) |
| 19:47.45 | narnia | brlcad, yes |
| 19:48.10 | brlcad | you know the printed volumes for that would be about 2 or 3 times the volume of my car :) |
| 19:48.48 | narnia | the airplane will not flying till the weight of the documentation exceeds the weight of the airplane. ;-) |
| 19:50.10 | narnia | i am really understanding iso-10303. the is scary. ;-) |
| 19:52.07 | narnia | a step-viewer would be nice to have. but that is what brl-cad is good at. |
| 19:54.46 | brlcad | so as part of a complete 10303 suite, though.. any thoughts on what/where to manage it or have you not gotten that far? |
| 19:55.23 | brlcad | it doesn't matter a whole lot to me, as like I said, brl-cad pretty much only needs libexpress which I'll probably pull in directly like we do for everything else |
| 19:56.02 | brlcad | i can either keep that in sync with your tree from time to time, or with the other cvs module if it's in brl-cad's cvs |
| 19:56.39 | narnia | brlcad, well we need libexpress, the part21 parser, the ap203 parser and perhaps the ap214 parser. those parsers are not part of libexpress yet. |
| 19:57.30 | brlcad | those sub-parsers would presumably become part of libexpress though, no? or perhaps a libstep of some sort or as "modules" to libexpress |
| 20:01.45 | narnia | i am tempted to use http://savannah.gnu.org/ for the repository of the iso-10303 project. |
| 20:04.41 | narnia | the parsers should probably be merged into libexpress. the support/utility programs use them. exppp (express pretty print) shtolo (short-to-long) fedex (an express language validator) dataprobe (an express language gui tool) |
| 20:05.41 | narnia | then there is the 'glue' library between part 21 and the aps (203 and 214) and brl-cad. |
| 20:05.44 | narnia | that is currently being worked on. |
| 20:10.32 | narnia | there is yet another project in waiting. that is part library creation. i have created literally thousands of standardized parts for my project. from threads, bolts, nuts, pipe, pipe fittings, flanges, etc. it would be a 'good' thing to convert those to an iso-10303 plib. then brl-cad would be able to access a large ready made set of parts. |
| 20:12.33 | narnia | then there is the brl-cad to emc (enhanced machine controller) interface. design in brl-cad send to emc and create the part. |
| 20:13.29 | brlcad | hmm.. savannah seemed so immature when I last looked |
| 20:14.17 | brlcad | they just recently ditched their entire backend .. not exactly a sign of stability |
| 20:14.44 | narnia | there is also another part of my project which i am not sure how to integrate into brl-cad. that is tools cutters, like end-mills, ball mills, brouches, etc. |
| 20:14.59 | narnia | umm i did not know that. |
| 20:15.37 | narnia | brl-cad will need to have knowledge of tool cutters and tool paths. |
| 20:15.46 | narnia | there is alot on my plate. |
| 20:16.48 | brlcad | tool cutters and tool paths should work pretty nicely as a plug-in to the new cad interface |
| 20:18.56 | brlcad | btw, the comment regarding savannah wasn't to discourage you from using it :) |
| 20:19.19 | brlcad | could be great, I haven't worked with many savannah projects |
| 20:19.37 | narnia | neither have i. |
| 20:20.01 | brlcad | the gforge fork seems to have made a lot more progress than savannah has with the opensource sourceforge code |
| 20:21.36 | brlcad | if i'm not mistaken, they recently replaced their port with gforge though, so the point's probably moot |
| 20:21.42 | narnia | of course it would be nice to have 'one stop shopping' when it comes to iso-10303, brl-cad, and emc. |
| 20:22.02 | narnia | brlcad, brl-cad and emc are both hosted on sourceforge.net. |
| 20:22.17 | brlcad | yes, that much I knew ;) |
| 20:22.36 | narnia | that alone would imply it makes more sense to have the 10303 stuff hosted there as well. |
| 20:23.08 | brlcad | so was i :) |
| 20:23.39 | narnia | does sourceforge.net have a concept of a super-project? |
| 20:23.55 | brlcad | it's just a project |
| 20:24.24 | brlcad | i mean from sf.net's perspective, it's just another project |
| 20:24.30 | narnia | by that i mean. brl-cad, emc, and iso-10303 stuff are all projects; but together they form a super-project. |
| 20:24.37 | brlcad | whether it uses/integrates with others or not |
| 20:25.12 | brlcad | you wouldn't retain the name "SCL" ? |
| 20:25.19 | brlcad | not that it matters |
| 20:26.17 | narnia | fred proctor and i have concerns retaining 'scl' and/or 'nist' will confuse people. |
| 20:27.23 | narnia | do you see what i mean by a 'super-project'? |
| 20:27.46 | brlcad | yes, but still from sf.net's perspective it's a completely separate project |
| 20:28.53 | brlcad | not unlike a linux distribution .. using a core kernel (scl) along with standard tools (brl-cad and emc) |
| 20:29.03 | brlcad | but a separate project in it's own right |
| 20:32.30 | brlcad | i could see bringing in scl into brl-cad's repository as a separate module given how coupled it'll need to be with the modeler/converters and given the fact that nist is "done" with it |
| 20:32.58 | brlcad | but then it could be it's own project too given how the needs could be very separate from CAD/CAM |
| 20:34.12 | brlcad | i wouldn't lose the "SCL" bit myself, though -- there's value in keeping that at least as part of the name to show that the new one is an improvement over the old one |
| 20:34.46 | brlcad | GNU SCL or something with clear historical references to the origins from NIST |
| 20:44.34 | narnia | have to watch the having 'gnu and step' in the same name. gnustep is the opensource replacement for openstep (the nextstep os. next cube. steve jobs). |
| 20:45.11 | narnia | been searching for a name and the obvious ones are all ready taken. |
| 20:45.24 | brlcad | yeah yeah :) |
| 20:45.42 | narnia | i.e. openstep, gnustep, etc. |
| 20:46.22 | brlcad | iso 10303 just sounds so meaningless :) |
| 20:46.27 | narnia | i have openstep for intel in my cabinet. |
| 20:47.07 | brlcad | iso 10302 wasn't good enough? :) or no, that's the spec for how to slice potatoes on a rainy day internationally |
| 20:47.46 | brlcad | could call it "Exchange" .. that'd be fun ;) |
| 20:48.53 | brlcad | ooh, SPEL .. the standard parts exchange library that can't spel korectly |
| 20:49.07 | narnia | well, 'outlook express' is taken as is 'exchange express' both by microsloth. |
| 20:49.45 | brlcad | i wouldn't say it's "taken" .. it's too generic |
| 20:50.02 | brlcad | like how they were denied a trademark claim on "Windows" |
| 20:51.54 | narnia | could always ask steve for use of 'openstep'. ;-) |
| 20:52.43 | narnia | since nextstep for all practical purposes no longer exists. |
| 20:53.06 | brlcad | anyhow, that's all in part why I'd stick with SCL :) people that knew about SCL will know what is meant |
| 20:53.13 | brlcad | nextstep exists.. it's called cocoa |
| 20:53.38 | brlcad | seriously, the api calls are still the same.. NSWindow().. |
| 20:53.38 | narnia | and hear i thought that was nestle. ;-) |
| 20:54.32 | narnia | i have noticed that. ;-) |
| 20:55.56 | narnia | seriously i would be willing to write steve jobs and ask for the use of openstep. |
| 20:58.27 | narnia | i remember when it was named 'rhapsody'. and was the blue box on the slides. rhapsody in blue. |
| 21:05.28 | narnia | brlcad, btw, where is jano? |
| 21:06.27 | narnia | brb need decaf |
| 21:28.15 | brlcad | oh, he's around .. just being technoshy of late |
| 21:28.29 | brlcad | does that from time to time, this longer than some |
| 21:48.27 | *** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org) | |
| 21:48.47 | Fikrann | Hello |
| 21:50.26 | narnia | Fikrann, hello, how goes it? |
| 21:51.02 | narnia | Fikrann, it goes. |
| 21:51.23 | narnia | chilly here today. not been able to go outside. |
| 21:52.53 | Fikrann | ahh |
| 21:55.10 | narnia | having been homebound for 8+yrs sucks. |
| 21:55.43 | brlcad | hello Fikrann |
| 21:56.12 | *** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com) | |
| 21:56.23 | brlcad | guu, welcome back |
| 21:56.34 | guu | brlcad: bafuuuuuu! |
| 22:26.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): move brlcad.spec.in from the top level to misc/ |
| 23:15.24 | narnia | brlcad, www.tc184-sc4.org is still hosed. :-( |
| 23:15.57 | brlcad | i have the long form of 214 from them if it's of any use |
| 23:16.10 | brlcad | and I think the short from of 203 |
| 23:16.55 | narnia | i did find this gem:: Abstract Test Suites describe the tests to be used to determine if an implementation conforms to the related Application Protocol. Each Application Protocol has an associated Abstract Test Suite with the number 3xx, where xx represents the second and third digits in the number of the Application Protocol. For example, ISO 10303-207 has an associated Abstract Test Suite with the number ISO 10303-307. |
| 23:17.38 | narnia | so ap203 has test suite 10303-303. |
| 23:21.14 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/express/ |
| 23:21.24 | brlcad | that's some of what i have |
| 23:21.45 | brlcad | i have more on another machine that i don't have access to right now |
| 23:23.51 | brlcad | ahh, nvr mind, the other machine only had the same things you already had from scl |
| 23:29.27 | brlcad | damn, not many people have configure checks for libutahrle to go by .. only found one so far |
| 23:31.04 | Fikrann | utahrle .. isn't that pic format used by brlcad? |
| 23:33.04 | brlcad | it's one of the supported image formats |
| 23:33.08 | brlcad | it's an old format |
| 23:33.20 | brlcad | also known as librle |
| 23:33.25 | Fikrann | ah |
| 23:33.53 | brlcad | utah raster toolkit are the folks that made it, hasn't really changed in about 15 years or so |
| 23:34.25 | brlcad | we redistribute the urt, but i'm adding checks so that we don't install it if urt is already installed |
| 23:34.57 | brlcad | it's a rare possibility if the folks are into imaging and are on a packaging system like bsd ports or debian apt, etc |
| 23:35.30 | brlcad | Fikrann: do you code? :) |
| 23:35.39 | brlcad | do you want to code? :) |
| 23:37.49 | brlcad | good to know .. if you want to work on something, just lemme know ;) |
| 23:40.21 | Fikrann | If you have any fixme of medium importance in sight, just point me in the right direction }:> |
| 23:42.25 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:46.11 | brlcad | i suppose that depends on where your interest is .. there's plenty to do that's both coding and non-coding |
| 23:47.04 | brlcad | the TODO and BUGS files list a variety of broad issues .. the sf.net RFE and Bugs trackers have more specific problems that people have submitted |
| 23:47.19 | Fikrann | ok |
| 23:47.26 | Fikrann | I'll look into it tomorrow. |
| 23:48.01 | brlcad | no worries either way .. any help is appreciated any time ;) |
| 23:48.14 | Fikrann | }:> |
| 23:49.56 | brlcad | my priorities for this iteration (i.e. this month) are to add the few build checks that the freebsd folks have asked for, the g-vrml addition that was requested from our netherlander friends, and then hopefully get back to working on a new website |
| 23:51.09 | Fikrann | ah |
| 23:51.29 | brlcad | actually the g-vrml is a nice fixme if you want it |
| 23:52.11 | brlcad | definitely something more than a plain page :) |
| 23:52.36 | brlcad | the current pages are embarrasing to my sense of standards |
| 23:53.00 | brlcad | but it was all we had time to put together before the news announcements went out |
| 23:55.05 | brlcad | I have drupal set up right now, but it's not fully configured nor has the look'n feel I'd like via any of the available themes |
