irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050621

02:38.50 *** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
02:38.50 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
02:46.10 brlcad archivist: it looks like a bug in SDL's sdl-config command which is used to specify what libraries SDL requires -- it ends up adding libaa.a, which is apparently dependant upon libgpm
02:47.11 brlcad archivist: another user reported that their libgpm libraries had invalid symbolic links after a similar fresh/clean debian install -- did you check the links?
03:58.56 Twingy brlcad, you see my msg earlier?
04:00.49 *** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
04:02.47 Twingy hi
04:17.14 jrobey hello
04:29.26 brlcad jrobey: howdy.. just figured out what happened
04:29.48 brlcad Twingy: yes, it was a change from a day or two ago -- i'll fix it tomorrow
04:30.16 brlcad you can work around it by setting the brlcad root to /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0
04:33.19 Twingy k
04:34.09 CIA-8 BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/rise/master/master.c: Added tenths of a percent to rise progress.
04:41.11 jrobey k, thanks
04:41.23 jrobey howdy back atchya
04:43.16 jrobey so, setting BRLCAD_ROOT=/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0 should help?
04:43.30 brlcad should, haven't tested it
04:43.49 jrobey k, I was just making sure I had the right variable
04:43.56 jrobey giving me the same thing
04:44.08 jrobey and it tab completed so 7.3.0 is there
04:44.09 brlcad is there a /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts ?
04:44.52 jrobey yes
04:45.04 brlcad and it still gives the gui error or somethign else?
04:45.21 jrobey invalid command name "gui"
04:45.38 brlcad hrmph
04:45.48 jrobey jason@ice:/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts$ $BRLCAD_ROOT
04:45.48 jrobey bash: /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0: is a directory
04:45.48 jrobey jason@ice:/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts$
04:46.05 jrobey jason@ice:~/workspace$ mged
04:46.05 jrobey Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...invalid command name "gui"
04:46.11 brlcad unset the root var and try: cp -R /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts /usr/brlcad/.
04:46.20 jrobey k
04:48.13 jrobey Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Unable to find 'html/manuals/mged' within the BRL-CAD
04:48.13 jrobey software installed in '/usr/brlcad'.
04:48.13 jrobey This copy of BRL-CAD does not appear to be fully installed.
04:48.13 jrobey Please contact your system administrator for assistance.
04:48.14 jrobey bu_brlcad_path()
04:48.14 jrobey bu_brlcad_path()
04:48.18 jrobey did something new
04:48.29 brlcad ahh, progress
04:49.05 jrobey this is a good thing, then
04:49.25 brlcad cp -R /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/doc/html /usr/brlcad/.
04:50.08 jrobey I have windows!
04:50.10 jrobey cool
04:50.24 jrobey now I'll have to pull up the manual again
04:50.32 Twingy my house has some windows
04:50.40 jrobey heh
04:50.56 jrobey thanks, btw
04:51.03 brlcad cool deal, have to fix those two things tomorrow
04:51.13 jrobey k
04:51.23 brlcad restructuring the install paths to play better with the packaging operating systems
04:51.49 jrobey ah, like debian
04:51.53 brlcad debian and gentoo folks in particular
04:52.32 brlcad and to a lesser extent the bsd folks
04:52.44 jrobey nice systems, though
04:53.13 jrobey of course I wouldn't fancy writing the gentoo script, the .deb stuff, and that base apt stuff
04:53.53 jrobey so, now back to rise
04:54.00 jrobey I'll see if I can see the update, now
04:54.50 brlcad actually folks already provided the apt/deb stuff for us
04:54.53 jrobey still a no-go on that
04:55.07 brlcad this will help it get out of unstable/testing, though
04:55.10 brlcad update of what?
04:55.43 jrobey ah, cool--I was working w/ twingy on an update of cvs -- wasn't seeing a change just committed
04:55.51 jrobey still not seeing it
04:56.03 jrobey maybe it's just bedtime ;)
04:56.04 brlcad hrm, your on anonymous
04:56.09 jrobey ah
04:56.16 brlcad that has a delay of up to 5 hours
04:56.35 brlcad i'll set your non-anon access
04:56.58 jrobey cool, thanks
04:57.22 brlcad done
04:57.35 brlcad you'll have to recheckout/update via non-anonymous
04:58.01 jrobey k, will do
04:58.04 brlcad or just wait for anon of course
04:58.05 jrobey thanks
04:58.12 brlcad no problem
04:58.20 brlcad just be sure to read hacking if you plan on commiting anything
04:58.35 brlcad don't break anything ;)
04:58.35 jrobey k, will do--plan on read-only for a while
04:58.39 jrobey heh, for sure
04:59.13 jrobey I've been developing in Java for so long, I don't think I could make a successful change--feel like I'm going to school all over again
04:59.30 brlcad hey, there's a java interface as you discovered ;)
04:59.37 brlcad it could use improvements
04:59.52 jrobey yeah, I'll be playing with that--and would love to make things better
05:00.11 brlcad maybe even a proper java app or two have been discussed
05:00.24 jrobey looking to integrate some of these tools into a project for school
05:00.45 brlcad oh?
05:00.59 jrobey well, I've got a fair bit of gui development experience in Swing, AWT, SWT, and OpenGL in java
05:01.34 jrobey yeah, I'd like to use some of the geometry stuff and ray tracing in a simulation for autonomous, copettitive agents
05:01.52 jrobey try to build the simulation side and then the robotic side for some simple agents
05:01.56 brlcad I ran your agent app
05:02.00 jrobey proof of concept for a visual language
05:02.05 jrobey cool, which one?
05:02.10 brlcad at least one of them
05:02.10 jrobey ShapeUp probably
05:02.29 brlcad one you were working on with Brian
05:02.49 jrobey did it have bubbles with links or a fault tree thing
05:03.04 jrobey ?
05:03.20 brlcad there was battlefield agents moving around, various graphs of their fitness, etc
05:03.29 jrobey ah, CoRBCAM
05:03.33 brlcad yeah, that's it
05:03.34 jrobey probably an old run
05:03.43 jrobey that was using RePast--have made some improvements
05:03.50 jrobey but the gui isn't fully there yet--
05:03.54 brlcad :)
05:03.59 jrobey mostly sim redesign for event based stuffs
05:04.12 jrobey yeah, that gui was somewhat embarrassing
05:04.31 jrobey basically seeing what I could do with a library from another land
05:04.31 brlcad proof of concept stuff often is ;)
05:04.38 jrobey heh, yeah
05:05.05 jrobey hey, what IDE do you use for C/C++ development?
05:05.19 brlcad Emacs
05:05.27 jrobey heh, cool
05:05.56 jrobey somehow I skipped that--used vi a lot and a nice little split screen editor on VAX/VMS
05:06.02 jrobey now I use eclipse mostly
05:06.24 brlcad ahh, yes eclipse is progressing
05:06.37 Twingy nano baby
05:06.38 jrobey yeah, its nice lately-even does ruby
05:06.43 jrobey heh, cool
05:07.02 jrobey i don't think I've ever used nano
05:07.08 jrobey have it installed, though
05:07.26 brlcad nobody except Twingy programs with nano after any length of time..
05:07.37 brlcad he's really stubborn for some reason to learn a real editor
05:07.39 jrobey I've written a few editing plugins in eclipse
05:07.40 jrobey heh
05:07.53 jrobey I know a few like that
05:08.38 brlcad eclipse is one of the few gui editors I would consider, but I'm fairly experienced and efficient with emacs
05:09.17 brlcad If I stick to just a single language, the choices narrow a bit too
05:09.18 Twingy something about an editor being more than 100kB just seems wrong :P
05:09.18 jrobey yeah, I can understand that--would take me a while to become as proficient in anything else as I am in eclipse
05:09.50 jrobey heh, we had a tech lead who thought the same, and wrote an editor that was small and quick
05:10.00 jrobey someone bought it for too little and now he can't use it
05:10.04 jrobey legally
05:10.22 brlcad that usually means featureless too
05:10.33 jrobey cvs.sourceforge.net /cvsroot/brlcad?
05:10.35 Twingy you mean like having a dishwasher in your car?
05:10.38 Twingy *pass* :)
05:10.58 jrobey yeah, he was pretty proud of the multiple paste buffers that were implemented and bound to different keys
05:10.59 brlcad so uninformed :P
05:11.00 jrobey lol
05:11.16 brlcad jrobey: yes, that's the root
05:11.27 jrobey thanks
05:11.39 brlcad cvs.sf.net works too
05:13.23 jrobey k
05:13.29 jrobey getting the latest now
05:14.35 jrobey k, well, I'll leave that running for a bit--thanks for the help and Twingy: I'll render the high-detail after everything is down and built
05:14.45 Twingy heh, have fun
05:14.54 jrobey thanks
05:14.56 jrobey laters
05:14.57 Twingy get yourself some render nodes :)
05:14.59 Twingy later
05:15.06 jrobey heh, WILCO
05:15.13 *** part/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
05:15.22 Twingy all your render nodes are belong to me
05:16.26 brlcad have you benchmarked the performance quantitatively yet of either the path or ray tracer?
05:16.35 brlcad i.e. exact same setups, same output
05:16.44 Twingy on what?
05:17.10 brlcad on the path and ray tracer
05:17.32 Twingy erm, a few hundred times over the past 15 months
05:17.39 Twingy but stuff keeps changing
05:17.45 Twingy so the numbers don't mean much
05:18.05 brlcad same setups that produce the same output?
05:18.11 brlcad i hadn't seen that yet
05:18.29 Twingy the path tracing better not produce the same results...
05:18.34 Twingy it's a convergence
05:18.37 brlcad well that one yes
05:18.52 brlcad it would just be time for that one, but for the other it should be possible
05:18.52 Twingy and I tossed phong out a while back
05:18.57 Twingy just doing lambertian shading right now
05:19.00 Twingy so...
05:19.09 Twingy and my geometry files keep changing
05:19.24 Twingy cause I get bored of looking at the same thing mainly
05:19.28 brlcad so...
05:19.30 brlcad you haven't
05:19.34 Twingy correct-o
05:19.41 brlcad k
05:19.59 Twingy I suppose once it gets used for something other than pretty pictures I might do something like that
05:20.09 Twingy until then.. no point
05:23.00 brlcad no point? it would be a quantitative metric, makes for a much better selling case
05:23.14 Twingy case for...?
05:23.29 Twingy pretty pictures are an analogue thing...
05:23.53 brlcad case for being able to tell people that it's actually faster than X
05:24.12 Twingy ah
05:24.13 brlcad it's come up a couple times when discussing with others
05:24.16 Twingy well whip up 2 humvee's
05:24.24 Twingy throw the cameras at the same angle
05:24.27 Twingy and shoot some rays...
05:24.28 brlcad I'm not looking to do it
05:24.33 brlcad i was just wondering if you had
05:24.39 Twingy well I mean for the people who are interested
05:24.42 brlcad since it's what youv'e been working on after all
05:24.54 Twingy I did it once a blue moon ago
05:25.03 Twingy about a year ago
05:25.08 Twingy it was something like 21x faster at that time
05:25.19 Twingy like 4.5 minutes for rt and 18 seconds or something for rise
05:25.26 Twingy 640x480 or something
05:25.32 brlcad that wasn't the same model, iirc
05:25.39 brlcad and not the same output
05:25.39 Twingy yah it was
05:25.43 Twingy the humvee was a bot
05:25.55 Twingy they were both based off the same dxf file
05:26.16 Twingy and I had the cameras to within a degree of each other
05:26.23 Twingy and rounded the speedup down in favor of rt
05:26.41 Twingy both doing flat shading
05:26.48 Twingy so it wasn't benchmarking render code
05:27.06 brlcad it's close, but still not quantitative
05:27.15 Twingy exactly, but close is all we need here
05:27.30 Twingy gives you 2 significant figures
05:27.33 brlcad you've got to be kidding.. ??
05:27.35 Twingy that's all you really need for comparisson
05:27.47 Twingy when people go, how fast is Product A over B
05:27.53 Twingy you tell them 2.1, not 2.124981295
05:27.59 Twingy the brain doesn't work that way
05:28.29 brlcad yeah, but if it can't even produce the same output, it's not the same comparison
05:28.41 Twingy right, but it's close 'nuff
05:28.41 brlcad no matter how close
05:28.52 Twingy that's why I give a *rough* estimate
05:28.58 Twingy not 5 signif figures
05:29.16 Twingy so when joe blow runs the app on X geometry they can expect roughly a Y performance improvement
05:29.59 brlcad more direct would be a csg tank vs a sufficiently polygonalized version that produces the same pixel output
05:30.23 Twingy yah, that'd be kinda interesting, haven't done any csg vs. polygon bench's yet
05:30.47 Twingy though it's kinda weird trying to pick how many triangles you should tesselate to
05:31.00 Twingy that's kinda up to the user
05:31.09 Twingy which makes the benchmark kinda pointless
05:31.12 Twingy but neat
05:31.44 brlcad that's why I said same pixel output .. there's a fairly exact threshold that should produce the same pixel
05:31.59 Twingy yah, but I mean, who wants to spend several hours on that
05:32.14 Twingy just like cleaning the kitchen floor with a toothbrush... it's not terribly productive
05:32.35 Twingy maybe a good job for a summer student
05:32.37 Twingy hrm...
05:32.40 Twingy you've got me thinking now
05:33.00 brlcad I disagree that it's not worth while -- that's what's being proposed for an ultimatel replacement
05:33.20 brlcad might as well test exactly what that is, though I suppose it will sort of settle out of the muves integration
05:33.50 brlcad hey, speaking of student..
05:33.50 Twingy replacement? eek
05:33.59 Twingy I don't think it should ever become a replacement
05:34.04 brlcad i heard one came in yesterday
05:34.11 Twingy yah, I got one of em in my office
05:34.11 brlcad that yours or mine?
05:34.22 Twingy I'm not supposed to have any
05:34.26 Twingy I'm just baby sitting for lee
05:34.41 brlcad well, you're sitting on one, and I got the other
05:34.53 brlcad so is that one yours or mine? :)
05:34.54 Twingy for this week anyway
05:35.05 Twingy the one I got lee told me to look after for a week
05:35.17 brlcad ah, hrm.. that's different then
05:37.10 Twingy my new gps arrived today :)
05:37.15 Twingy good stuff
05:37.57 brlcad what's the resolution?
05:38.05 brlcad stable numbers?
05:38.57 Twingy http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVista/
05:39.17 Twingy built in compass and altimeter
05:39.43 Twingy gps altimeter is worthless and gps compass is worthless unless moving
05:40.13 Twingy Harmon mean computation for earth geode is crappy way to get altitude from sattelite :(
05:40.53 Twingy got the suction cup window mount
05:41.07 Twingy and a splitter for the lighter along with the dc adapter for car
05:41.19 Twingy the backlight is handy for night driving
08:18.45 *** join/#brlcad clock- (~clock@38.38.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch)
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13:48.27 *** join/#brlcad plaincad863 (~40662dfb@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:49.42 plaincad863 Has anyone been able to get BRLCAD to run on later issues of Fedora?
13:53.19 *** join/#brlcad plaincad863 (~40662dfb@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:32.25 archivist_ "add please have patienceengravamet.co.uk
14:34.35 archivist_ oops wrong keybord ignore
14:36.23 *** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:45.49 *** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@drs-15-143.psl.nmsu.edu)
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18:14.25 *** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
18:14.25 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
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22:17.35 CIA-8 BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Started on util_display_console for use in igvt observer, 25% done.

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