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| 01:39.50 | Mac- | hi there |
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| 02:01.13 | brlcad | Mac-: howdy |
| 02:03.13 | Mac- | fine and you ? |
| 02:05.54 | brlcad | going great |
| 02:08.00 | brlcad | ~pl |
| 02:08.02 | ibot | i guess pl is sometimes referred to as \"packet loss\" |
| 02:08.30 | brlcad | ~.pl |
| 02:08.31 | ibot | .pl is, like, Poland (or a perl extension) |
| 02:08.46 | brlcad | that's right, never seem to remember that one |
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| 02:31.43 | Mac-- | sorry |
| 02:31.57 | Mac-- | it was disconnect by ISP |
| 02:51.45 | brlcad | no problem here ;) |
| 02:54.08 | Mac- | i was here some time ago, and asked about drafting in brl-cad |
| 02:54.26 | Mac- | equivalent to autocad |
| 02:54.29 | brlcad | yeah, I vaguely recall |
| 02:54.39 | brlcad | that's a frequent question regardless ;) |
| 02:54.46 | brlcad | everyone want an autocad alternative :) |
| 02:56.39 | Mac- | but now my university started subject 'CAD/CAM Systems' |
| 02:56.48 | Mac- | and they talk about CATIA |
| 02:56.57 | Mac- | which is solid modeling |
| 02:57.02 | brlcad | there's an expensive system |
| 02:57.06 | Mac- | yeah |
| 02:57.08 | Mac- | right |
| 02:57.14 | Mac- | very expensive |
| 02:57.37 | Mac- | and i want to ask you is brl-cad equivalent for CATIA ? |
| 02:59.14 | brlcad | much more equivalent than it is to autocad |
| 02:59.42 | brlcad | there are plenty of features that catia does that brl-cad doesn't support, though |
| 03:00.02 | brlcad | e.g. brl-cad doesn't do hardly anything related to CAM other than basic geometric management |
| 03:00.46 | Mac- | for CNC ? |
| 03:01.07 | brlcad | right |
| 03:01.42 | brlcad | that said, it's not a far stretch to get into that area |
| 03:01.56 | brlcad | it's just a focus that's never been needed or considered |
| 03:03.01 | Mac- | hmm, well brl isn`t designed to CAM area ? |
| 03:03.36 | brlcad | CAD, design, and even more specifically towards analyses primarily |
| 03:03.47 | brlcad | rendering through raytracing, etc |
| 03:04.00 | brlcad | it has been used in CAM areas |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | it's easy enough to export geometry into a format that most CNC machining systems recognize |
| 03:04.39 | brlcad | and correct solidity should be preserved |
| 03:05.14 | Mac- | 'should' is very expensive word in mechanic |
| 03:05.15 | Mac- | :> |
| 03:06.38 | brlcad | well, it is preserved, guaranteed topology up to the tolerances you select |
| 03:06.44 | Mac- | ok, but i`m obnly student, my way to real CNC is like from Earth to Sun :) |
| 03:08.14 | Mac- | is there any support from graphic card for work in brl ? |
| 03:08.37 | brlcad | the default rendering context is via opengl |
| 03:09.19 | brlcad | historically, the graphics card isn't relied upon much though as the models historically don't fit within video card memory (until very very recently) |
| 03:11.39 | Mac- | i`m working on Matrox MGA G200 8MB |
| 03:12.12 | Mac- | it is too weak ? |
| 03:13.03 | brlcad | for brl-cad? it should be completely fine |
| 03:13.09 | brlcad | our minimum requirements are pretty bare :) |
| 03:15.06 | Mac- | ok, waht about memmory and CPU subsystem ? |
| 03:16.09 | brlcad | there's not really a memory or cpu minimum.. that only limits the size of the models and speed it will evaluate raytraces, etc |
| 03:16.24 | brlcad | maybe a minimum of a couple megs to invoke the tcl version of mged |
| 03:17.11 | Mac- | but Pentium 166MHz is a little to small :> |
| 03:18.35 | brlcad | brl-cad's run on stuff over the past 20 years, I've run it on old 486's with no problems |
| 03:18.56 | brlcad | just slows it down ;) |
| 03:21.33 | Mac- | hehe |
| 03:23.28 | Mac- | i worked on AMD K6-2 450MHz for 6 years |
| 03:23.58 | Mac- | but CPU got malfunction (reset by itself from time to time) |
| 03:24.12 | Mac- | and now i have to byu something to replace |
| 03:25.48 | Mac- | but they are 486 level? |
| 03:34.07 | ``Erik | and coleco adam |
| 03:34.10 | ``Erik | and c128 |
| 03:34.40 | ``Erik | mebbe that's why I dig those little microcontrollers and pics so much, heh |
| 03:35.29 | ``Erik | fight scenes in family guy are freakin' awesome |
| 03:40.16 | brlcad | the whole scene to go smack down will ferrill is hilarious |
| 03:45.38 | Mac- | well something like PIII ~900MHz will be fine ? |
| 03:51.29 | pra5ad | ohh no work tomorrow |
| 03:52.54 | pra5ad | but i have class tomorrow |
| 03:52.56 | pra5ad | nooooo |
| 03:53.36 | ``Erik | ... |
| 03:53.40 | ``Erik | damn you whine a lot |
| 03:53.52 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:57.56 | pra5ad | old news |
| 03:58.27 | pra5ad | ill be in san jose for spring break |
| 04:07.33 | ``Erik | I thought san jose was a whole lot more west than south |
| 04:19.45 | pra5ad | that is besides the point |
| 04:45.22 | Mac- | what about SMP systems ? |
| 06:07.01 | brlcad | Mac-: all the raytracers take advantage of SMP automatically by default, and can be set up for distributed systems with a little extra effort |
| 06:08.30 | Mac- | nice |
| 06:08.56 | Mac- | i could get 2xPIII 866MHz for ~100$ |
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| 10:02.53 | Mac- | re |
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| 12:42.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modified wdb_killtree_callback()'s call to dgo_eraseobjall_callback (i.e. parameters were out of order). Modified wdb_killtree_cmd() to call dgo_notifyWdb() to reduce the number of times observers are notified. |
| 12:46.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Added missing parameter to dgo_eraseobjall_callback(). Added dgo_notifyWdb(). |
| 12:52.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Flesh out parameter list for the declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify(). Declare dgo_notifyWdb(). |
| 12:56.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Removed declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify(). |
| 13:53.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Update the debug version's preprocessor definitions. |
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| 15:37.54 | age | could BRL-CAD be used for building models also? |
| 15:38.48 | ``Erik | ... that's kinda the purpose of it :) |
| 15:39.21 | age | i mean, building (structures) models |
| 15:41.02 | ``Erik | there's a detailed building that comes with the package as an example |
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| 15:41.53 | Mac- | re |
| 15:42.10 | age | ok, my interest is in using brlcad for simulating NBCR/explosive events, on structures |
| 15:43.28 | ``Erik | ARL has a group that does that, I THINK they use brlcad .g files, but I'm not sure |
| 15:44.22 | age | are you with the ARL? |
| 15:44.36 | ``Erik | some of us, yeah |
| 15:45.11 | age | i've had back luck trying to contact govt ppl lately, whether it is ATEC or whatnot heh |
| 15:45.31 | ``Erik | <-- has never talked to atec |
| 15:45.49 | age | did you try to get in contact with them also? :D |
| 15:46.23 | ``Erik | heh, no :) |
| 15:46.36 | age | they had some good window dressing on how they evaluate devices for use in the battlefield |
| 15:46.49 | age | i thought, ok, if i talk to them, maybe they will share their methodology. |
| 15:46.53 | age | no such luck. |
| 15:47.27 | ``Erik | there's an official brlcad email with an @arl.army.mil address, iirc, that goes to a fistful of people, I'd be surprised if you didn't get a fairly prompt response... not today of course, but tomorrow |
| 15:48.12 | ``Erik | (or, if you just have questions and stuff, I'm here right now, others will wake up or something later) |
| 15:49.06 | ``Erik | hrm, well, I thought there was an @arl.army.mil addy, but I'm not seeing it, heh |
| 15:50.43 | ``Erik | nbc+r on structures? I can only think of a couple industry niches interested in that kinda stuff o.O |
| 15:51.08 | brlcad | there was/is, it's a moderated forwardable alias -- the old mailing list addr |
| 15:51.12 | brlcad | cad @ |
| 15:51.19 | age | erik > have you ever looked at digital sandbox? |
| 15:51.36 | age | they have a very very expensive solution for doing some of that |
| 15:51.38 | ``Erik | newp |
| 15:51.47 | age | they do explosions only i believe |
| 15:52.12 | ``Erik | blast, shock, fragments/debris, all that? |
| 15:52.23 | brlcad | sounds incredibly familiar :) |
| 15:52.38 | age | i'm not sure how much of it they do, but if i remember right, only explosions |
| 15:52.58 | ``Erik | well, those're some of the damage mechanisms from an explosion... heh |
| 15:53.18 | age | i want to do chemical agents of various types, bio agents, explosions, radiological, nuclear, etc |
| 15:53.25 | ``Erik | sean, is the sf mailing list the best 'official channel' now? |
| 15:53.31 | brlcad | you could rather easily simulate explosive events via the raytrace libraries, it's pretty much used in that manner already in muves to some extents |
| 15:53.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: for anything non-sensitive, yeah |
| 15:54.07 | brlcad | and here |
| 15:54.22 | brlcad | i'd even say irc is primary, mailing list is secondary |
| 15:54.23 | age | what about modeling people within the buildings also? I'd be interested in doing that too :D |
| 15:54.23 | ``Erik | radiation transport can be done fairly easy, I'd imagine? (path tracing style)... chem might be a bit hairier, that seems to get more towards fem land |
| 15:55.12 | age | i don't like the idea that the US govt has to pay 300,000+ for a software package to do counter terrorism planning stuff |
| 15:55.19 | brlcad | there's an effort going on this year where brl-cad is being used to simulate radiation transport levels to people in situations/places |
| 15:55.47 | age | what about fluid dispersion? |
| 15:55.48 | ``Erik | I've seen plain csg models of humans that have enough fidelity for building and vehicle stuff... and nurb support is being improved right now |
| 15:56.38 | brlcad | why pay 300k when the government has already paid millions for brl-cad over it's life ;) |
| 15:57.01 | brlcad | and it's fully customizeable and "free" today at least now |
| 15:57.33 | age | brldcad: i think because http://www.dsbox.com/ is an easier to use package |
| 15:58.07 | brlcad | age: that is a fairly safe "no" towards fluid dispersion, don't think anyone has done that yet as fluid mechanics usually involve a completely different class of calculations |
| 15:58.22 | age | and has more features specific to counter terrorism. |
| 15:58.50 | ``Erik | fluid dispersion seems pretty well wedged into the FEM world |
| 15:59.47 | ``Erik | if we had (better) voxel support, it's be a possibility, I'd suppose... that damn boy needs to get off his ass and do the nastran converters |
| 16:00.02 | brlcad | age: i do understand the naysayers concerns, brl-cad's gui modeling interface can be painful -- nobody ever wanted to pay to make it easy to use .. |
| 16:00.27 | brlcad | but this is more in-line with the libraries, not so much the tools, and the libraries are pretty easy to use |
| 16:00.57 | age | is brlcad funded only by govt users of it? |
| 16:01.11 | brlcad | primarily, but not solely |
| 16:01.29 | brlcad | plus it's also open source now, so anyone can get in on the development |
| 16:03.14 | brlcad | there's not really anything preventing you or anyone else from contributing to the project to the point that they'd actually become a core developer or core contributor (for non-devs) etc |
| 16:10.06 | age | that is good, i have to see how much time i will have in the future |
| 16:10.53 | brlcad | even if you can't get involved and there's something that you're interested in, it's good to raise the issues and questions on the mailing list or to even make feature requests on sf |
| 16:11.29 | brlcad | they do get read several times over |
| 16:11.54 | brlcad | of course unless it's something sensitive, then just contact directly |
| 16:14.51 | ``Erik | heh, I thought milton was supposed to be doing that |
| 16:15.05 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:15.25 | brlcad | something different |
| 16:15.28 | ``Erik | I was kinda hoping I'd get put on that after milton... didn't do anything at all :D |
| 16:15.31 | ``Erik | ahhh, okie |
| 16:15.57 | brlcad | working on auto-improving the orca human model |
| 16:16.05 | ``Erik | 'auto-improving'? |
| 16:16.07 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.16 | brlcad | yep, it's looking good so far |
| 16:16.51 | brlcad | found a nasty bug in orca in the process |
| 16:17.37 | brlcad | something trivial to fix fortunately |
| 16:22.01 | ``Erik | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20030607 *snrktkt* |
| 16:24.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:25.29 | age | Erik: the value of small teams of snipers is tying up conventional forces is vastly underrated :) |
| 16:25.55 | ``Erik | true, but if they don't watch the paths to get to 'em... EXACTLY that happens |
| 16:26.06 | ``Erik | I've done it and I've been done like that, hehehehhee |
| 16:26.57 | age | yeah, but most infantry people become so sound aware when deployed |
| 16:27.25 | age | my sense of smell became hyper sensitive also when i was deployed |
| 16:29.21 | ``Erik | I'd imagine that any sense that could keep you from getting dead becomes hightened in those kind of situations o.O |
| 16:29.47 | age | i just looked at the photo too, it had someone taking a shot from the knee |
| 16:30.09 | age | which is something in the army we almost never do, and AA discourages if i remember right |
| 16:30.26 | age | almost exclusively from the prone :D |
| 16:30.57 | ``Erik | opposed to ut and quake, where most shots are taken while spinning airborne |
| 16:31.06 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:31.28 | age | yeah, the unrealistic aspect of most FPSs bother me. |
| 16:31.54 | age | jump through the door, land and duck, facing opposite direction, shoot. |
| 16:31.56 | age | lol. |
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| 16:32.34 | ``Erik | running 60mph, jumping 30 feet, landing without ever losing bead... |
| 16:33.02 | brlcad | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060130 |
| 16:33.05 | age | i remember AA taking breathing into affect though, which is an improvement over most FPSs |
| 16:33.06 | ``Erik | laughing off hits with no ill effects, just grab a box and it's all better, do it over and over |
| 16:33.39 | age | but, i remember AA discounting trigger squeeze, as if newb soldiers have perfect non pulling squeezes from the start |
| 16:33.40 | age | :D |
| 16:33.44 | ``Erik | only in 'aim' mode |
| 16:33.53 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 16:34.14 | age | yeah. |
| 16:34.22 | ``Erik | one of these days, I'll get my fbsd box back up and running how it's supposed to so I can play some games again |
| 16:34.41 | age | they overrate the recoil on the m249 also |
| 16:35.05 | age | experienced m249/240/60 gunners, have very tight shot groups on piasters |
| 16:35.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:36.19 | ``Erik | back when I was playing it, i tended to take medic roles... |
| 16:36.34 | age | it would ruin most FPS games, but i'll tell you straight up. Nothing compares to an M249 for real life stuff |
| 16:36.49 | ``Erik | massive points just to stop one dude from bleeding |
| 16:37.48 | age | the m249, is only 17 lbs, cyclic rate is very fast, recoil is minimal, one person can take out squads with minimal difficulty. |
| 16:40.20 | ``Erik | provided they aren't flanked |
| 16:42.34 | age | also, another thing that is great about the m249 is the accuracy |
| 16:43.01 | age | you can snipe with an m249, with the regular barrel |
| 16:43.42 | age | put some NODs on it, and they are so sweet at night |
| 16:43.42 | ``Erik | what's the dispersion numbers? do ya know? (are they public release?) |
| 16:44.00 | age | i think they are public release |
| 16:44.37 | age | http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/m-249_saw/index.html |
| 16:45.07 | age | here it says max effective range on a point target is 600m |
| 16:45.18 | age | but i think it is longer than that |
| 16:45.42 | age | ditto with effectiveness on area target |
| 16:45.54 | ``Erik | they don't say the radius or anything of accuracy at those distances, tho :/ |
| 16:46.10 | ``Erik | ah well |
| 16:46.35 | age | it is really easy to clean and disassemble also |
| 16:47.56 | ``Erik | against an 8x8 target at 850m, 90% hit rate out of 800 rounds (zeroed to 300m) |
| 16:49.11 | age | 5.56 rounds drop out at the long ranges so skill comes into play |
| 16:49.50 | age | but, i thought my m249 was much more accurate than the m60, which i was used primarily before then |
| 16:49.51 | ``Erik | these were vehicle mounted computer systems and test stands, I think... |
| 16:50.50 | ``Erik | aannnyyywwwaaayyysss |
| 16:51.24 | age | probably not vehicle mounted, since m249s are not fired so often in vehicles |
| 16:52.44 | ``Erik | this was a 'crow' system, they were testing different guns for use in it |
| 16:52.50 | ``Erik | computer controlled dealie, I think |
| 16:53.13 | ``Erik | *shrug* I skipped most of the slides in the pdf, was lookin' for the numbers :) |
| 16:56.51 | pra5ad | buildings eh |
| 16:58.31 | ``Erik | oi, prasad |
| 16:58.48 | pra5ad | we used STMG (see ARA) for that |
| 17:07.13 | brlcad | which should be integrated with STMG, that was someone's failure to notice the replication/need |
| 17:07.37 | brlcad | they're still busy reinventing the wheel there |
| 17:07.46 | brlcad | geometricly |
| 17:09.57 | pra5ad | what should be integrated with stmg? |
| 17:10.27 | pra5ad | o brlcad |
| 17:13.51 | age | STMG looks interesting |
| 17:14.08 | pra5ad | buggy as hell though |
| 17:14.22 | pra5ad | here's the kicker.. its a java program |
| 17:15.15 | ``Erik | *shudder* |
| 17:15.40 | age | hehehe |
| 17:19.05 | pra5ad | brlcad, fwiw stmg does save its models in 4 formats, and iirc one is a .g |
| 17:20.28 | ``Erik | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20031004 |
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| 17:26.41 | pra5ad | watched harold and kumar again |
| 17:26.42 | pra5ad | =) |
| 17:39.40 | learner | pra5ad, yeah, v4 ascii iirc, maybe |
| 17:39.57 | learner | and it's something like simplified arbs/boxes |
| 17:40.29 | learner | their internal geometry management was pathetic from what I listened to last fall |
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| 19:43.58 | pier | brlcad... about g-dxf, get an error message when giving: |
| 19:44.09 | pier | bash-3.00$ g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.s |
| 19:44.09 | pier | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/cubo.s' |
| 19:44.09 | pier | 12 triangles written |
| 20:06.06 | brlcad | pier: cubo.s is a "leaf" node, i.e. a primitive |
| 20:06.45 | brlcad | converters work on a region/combination level |
| 20:07.28 | brlcad | generally speaking, there is no "physical" geometry until you make a region |
| 20:08.11 | pier | I made one as a matter of fact |
| 20:08.18 | brlcad | it's just a template, a void space |
| 20:08.25 | pier | cubo.s -> cubo.r |
| 20:08.26 | brlcad | before you make a region |
| 20:08.37 | brlcad | ah, great |
| 20:08.52 | brlcad | so specify that instead of the .s on g-dxf |
| 20:09.00 | pier | so the command I gave was faulty |
| 20:09.10 | pier | ok yhanks |
| 20:09.14 | pier | thanks |
| 20:09.22 | brlcad | you told it to convert cubo.s |
| 20:09.31 | brlcad | g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.r |
| 20:09.32 | pier | yep |
| 20:10.02 | pier | ok it works |
| 20:10.40 | pier | brlcad... I am still working on the second volume but a bit slowly |
| 20:12.38 | brlcad | no problem at all ;) |
| 20:12.42 | pier | so I am not sure about when it will be ready |
| 20:13.14 | brlcad | wouldn't want to shadow it with the other big announcements coming out this month and next regardless |
| 20:13.37 | pier | bit in trouble with an exam these days... |
| 20:13.50 | pier | about releasing a win version? |
| 20:14.22 | brlcad | that's one of the big announcements |
| 20:16.08 | pier | and a taste of the others...? |
| 20:16.34 | pier | nevermind it it is top secret |
| 20:16.57 | brlcad | no top secrets, this is open source :) |
| 20:17.34 | pier | yes of course |
| 20:19.20 | brlcad | most of it's in the NEWS file already, hasn't been announced in a while |
| 20:19.40 | pier | ok I'll have a look at it |
| 20:19.43 | brlcad | the new clone duplication command will be big news to some |
| 20:20.38 | brlcad | it's a tool for very easily creating patterns of geometry, way easier than the current pattern tool |
| 20:20.54 | pier | Is it to make copies of components and regions? |
| 20:21.17 | brlcad | yes, in various ways through a pretty simple syntax |
| 20:21.53 | brlcad | one of a handful of really powerful tools from the former GSI modeling powerhouse |
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| 20:33.28 | pier | brlcad, I can't see why I am not able to import a dxf file exported with the gdxf commnd with blender as well as with ac3d |
| 20:34.23 | brlcad | blender's dxf support is horrible |
| 20:35.41 | pier | I'm testing this with a dxf file that ac3d can open whereas blender fails |
| 20:36.08 | pier | but both of them cannot open cubo.dxf |
| 20:36.23 | brlcad | keep in touch with a few of the blender devs from time to time, their support is very basic. fails on most things that autocad exports too |
| 20:36.46 | pier | neithed autocad does |
| 20:36.53 | pier | neither |
| 20:37.09 | brlcad | if autocad doesn't then it's probably our fault ;) |
| 20:37.14 | brlcad | unless it's a versioning problem |
| 20:37.19 | brlcad | dxf has several versions |
| 20:39.26 | brlcad | send me or post the cubo.dxf, I can at least see if it's something trivial |
| 20:39.48 | brlcad | should probably get reported as a bug on the tracker |
| 20:39.49 | pier | not that I am interested in it but before trying to extract triangles from the dxf file I wanted to have a go at looking the objects in these programs |
| 20:40.15 | pier | ok will via ftp work |
| 20:40.30 | brlcad | extract triangles? there are better exporters for that |
| 20:40.39 | brlcad | stl is a very simple triangle format |
| 20:40.59 | brlcad | e-mail would be better, but ftp works too |
| 20:41.56 | pier | yes... I am still looking to writing a program (crappy for sure) that draws the mai view of an object |
| 20:42.09 | pier | main views |
| 20:43.10 | pier | removing hidden faces (the painter's algo) and drawing hidden edges with dashed lines |
| 20:43.34 | brlcad | or not drawing them altogether ;) |
| 20:45.10 | pier | do you think that it would be to much effort for a rookie programmer? |
| 20:45.39 | pier | please give me the e:mail |
| 20:48.14 | brlcad | not too much effort, anything's possible ;) |
| 20:49.42 | pier | I thought that extracting all the triangles wouldn't be that hard... perhaps I am wrong |
| 20:50.09 | pier | Is there a positive verse in the vertex numbering? |
| 20:50.38 | brlcad | extracting the triangle is the easiest part |
| 20:50.45 | pier | so that it woud be possible to work out an exiting versor from the surface? |
| 20:52.50 | pier | that way it wouldn't be hard to pinpoint the hidden ones |
| 21:00.50 | brlcad | possible, though that's where it gets tricky |
| 21:01.28 | brlcad | i've seen some algorithms for it, but only glanced through them |
| 21:04.07 | pier | I'll have a look at the dxf txt file to see if the triangles are stored cws or ccws |
| 21:07.02 | pier | and let you know if I get to something |
| 21:14.00 | pier | Ok bye then |