irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060224

00:18.15 ``Erik ah.
00:18.16 ``Erik Choo.
00:24.25 brlcad cobbaut: it's not a plugin, gimp supports it natively, it's a simple raw image -- interleaved R G B values dumped to a file
00:24.36 brlcad but it has to be named right, .raw
00:25.10 brlcad otherwise gimp tries to parse it as an sgi ".pix" which is something different
00:28.35 brlcad ufraw is a different kind of raw afaik
00:28.48 brlcad raw from digital cameras, which is encoded different
00:30.16 brlcad unless gimp has changed in the past few years
00:41.09 brlcad bah, just tried opening it in gimp, no longer see the option I remember
00:41.29 brlcad so forgo the raw, convert to png with pix-png
00:41.46 brlcad pix-png file.pix > file.png
00:42.09 brlcad or convert to pnm pretty easily as is:
00:42.20 brlcad echo "P6
00:42.28 brlcad 512 512 255" > file.pnm
00:42.33 brlcad cat file.pix >> file.pnm
01:19.54 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: wavelet isn't working correctly on a simple image decomposition and reconstruction
03:05.55 justin_ another long day >_<
08:22.53 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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12:25.03 CIA-5 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: allocate memory before RT_APPLICATION_INIT
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15:21.42 brlcad d_rossberg: nice catch, eek
15:25.09 d_rossberg isn't it :-)
15:36.58 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@135.105-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
17:28.23 *** join/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-134-51-45.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
17:31.09 birdmun i get errors (many) after installing cygwin(complete) and after running configure and then make ... is there anywhere i can look that i havent looked?
17:31.14 birdmun for help that is
17:36.38 birdmun i guess it would be good if there was living being here
17:40.09 ``Erik O.o
17:40.29 ``Erik <-- doesn't know if it works on cygwin... what kinda errors?
17:40.46 ``Erik (and spfdmo? springfield, mo? like, 6580X?)
17:42.04 birdmun actually joplin mo
17:42.07 birdmun but close enuf
17:42.14 birdmun hour and a half
17:42.18 birdmun maybe hour
17:43.33 birdmun just a sec lemme see if i can get thru make and i will try posting ... it complains alot about hooks and some variables being defined more than once
17:45.05 birdmun not that running make is a quick thing to do lol
17:48.23 birdmun damn forgot to pipe the output to a txt file
17:58.48 birdmun a great deal of the errors are prefaced w/ a tk
18:01.41 birdmun am i to guess that the tk lib or some such item did not get installed properly?
18:09.27 *** part/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-134-51-45.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
18:09.34 *** join/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-134-51-45.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
18:09.39 birdmun DOH!
18:09.45 birdmun wrong window
18:22.46 ``Erik libtk is built along with the system if necessary, in src/other/libtk
18:23.09 ``Erik it might be that the libtk it's trying to build is the unix variant instead of the windows variant... I don't do windows, so'z I d'no
18:23.20 ``Erik <-- lived in springfield for 8 yrs, went to smsu
18:23.42 ``Erik actually, nixa for a bit, then springfield, near battlefield for most of it
18:36.26 brlcad birdmun: cygwin should work, though I haven't tested in a few months
18:37.11 birdmun i wish i knew how to make it work
18:37.13 brlcad it might not be a clean build though shouldn't take much to get it
18:37.19 birdmun currently going to mssu
18:37.31 brlcad what's the error(s), pastebin it
18:37.33 birdmun red headed step child to smsu i guess :P
18:37.58 birdmun i should be able to pipe the make output to a txt file yes?
18:38.11 birdmun just type make >> make.txt?
18:38.19 birdmun or no?
18:39.33 brlcad make > build.log 2>&1
18:40.12 brlcad or just copy/paste
18:40.14 brlcad ~pastebin
18:40.15 ibot hmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste
18:40.29 brlcad you can paste it there, then post the url here
18:41.19 birdmun very odd ... i typed the make > ... and it seems to have hung it
18:43.00 birdmun well ... just typed make and we are off
18:43.06 birdmun i believe it takes about 20 mins
18:44.10 brlcad did it fail to build, or fail to run?
18:44.24 birdmun build ... i guess
18:44.25 brlcad and are you just looking for a binary? or looking to build?
18:44.39 birdmun i realize there is not a win32 binary yet
18:44.47 brlcad actually there are
18:45.05 birdmun ok ...
18:45.09 brlcad we've had binaries for a couple years
18:45.14 brlcad just don't distribute them :)
18:45.17 birdmun ic
18:45.21 brlcad there are issues to work out
18:45.31 brlcad we're close to doing a full "first" release
18:45.35 birdmun i see the topic says not stable
18:46.27 birdmun i have dabbled in linux and am really trying to migrate to linux from windows ... just havent gotten that far yet
18:47.20 birdmun i know i have enough knowledge to be dangerous
18:47.48 brlcad :)
18:47.58 birdmun i know this because i have managed to thrash my linux partition
18:48.01 brlcad best way is to just take the plunge and install full ;)
18:48.25 birdmun just enough that i cant figure out how to fix it or havent spent enough time to figure it out
18:49.26 birdmun my problem so far is i use my system to play games as well and windows games on linux arent just install and run affairs
18:50.55 birdmun although wine is coming along nicely from what i have been seeing
18:56.42 birdmun http://pastebin.com/570668
18:56.53 birdmun i hope that is the link i needed to paste
18:57.27 brlcad that's right
18:57.28 birdmun that being after i ./configure --disable-opengl --enable-optimized
18:58.42 brlcad hmm, it's trying to build the X11 interface to Tk
18:59.05 brlcad do you have X11 installed in cygwin?
18:59.10 brlcad headers and libs
18:59.32 birdmun when i setup cygwin i installed everything except games and mail
19:00.02 birdmun using cygwin 1.5.19-4
19:02.16 birdmun i have a shortcut on my desktop that is for Xserver
19:02.27 birdmun the icon is in my system tray
19:03.52 brlcad you can have the binary and not have the header or libs
19:04.04 brlcad configure might have failed to find it as well
19:04.15 brlcad can you mail your config.log?
19:05.15 birdmun config.log will be in the brlcad dir that i was configuring in?
19:05.45 birdmun found it
19:06.34 birdmun sent
19:06.41 brlcad okie dokie
19:07.05 birdmun i wish i were more self sufficient about thi
19:07.07 birdmun this
19:17.58 brlcad yeah, it failed to find X11 headers and libs..
19:18.12 brlcad yet you do have a undefined r
19:18.13 brlcad eference to `_XFillRectangle'
19:18.23 brlcad er, you do have a /usr/X11R6 directory
19:18.39 brlcad do you have /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ?
19:18.59 brlcad and a /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11*something*
19:20.29 birdmun i shall look
19:21.11 birdmun yes on the Xlib.h
19:23.19 birdmun no libX11*something*
19:23.38 brlcad what's in your /usr/X11R6/lib dir?
19:23.51 birdmun i realize that *something* was a 'wildcard'
19:25.17 birdmun doh
19:25.28 birdmun just a sec
19:25.32 birdmun wrong dir
19:26.15 birdmun i have a libX11-6.dll.a and a libX11.dll.a
19:34.31 brlcad hmm
19:34.35 brlcad try linking against them then
19:34.52 birdmun beyond my minor knowledge
19:34.56 brlcad make LIBS="/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.dll.a" might work
19:35.04 birdmun ok
19:35.04 brlcad if it really is a .a
19:35.10 birdmun it is
19:35.16 birdmun listed anyway
19:35.18 brlcad it's named that
19:35.26 birdmun do i need to make clean first?
19:35.32 brlcad i mean if it really is an archive, it'd be different if it was a dll
19:35.34 brlcad no
19:35.39 birdmun k
19:36.41 birdmun its off ... i will let you know in a bit
19:51.13 birdmun http://pastebin.com/570758
19:51.57 birdmun untrained eye says its something about opengl
19:52.58 birdmun being as i used the --disable-opengl switch
19:53.11 brlcad yeah
19:53.40 brlcad wrong flag
19:53.45 brlcad it's not --disable-opengl
19:53.50 brlcad --without-opengl
19:54.25 brlcad also when you paste errors, don't need to see the end of the errors, need to see the beginning of them ;)
19:54.29 brlcad from the compile line down
19:54.37 brlcad all the rest are just superfluous
19:54.55 brlcad could be two listed, could be two thousand, the first is the only one that matters
19:55.35 birdmun ic
19:56.03 birdmun well i guess im going to have to work on this later ... gf is bein a pain
19:56.07 birdmun hasta
19:56.15 birdmun thanks for the help so far
19:58.06 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-60-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:31.16 *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@135.105-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
20:39.05 ``Erik hmmmm
20:39.56 *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
20:41.15 ``Erik pwn3d you like a car d00r, y0
20:41.18 ``Erik :D *duck*
20:42.15 Maloeran BrlCad if you don't mind, or anyone else who would know, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes?
20:42.27 Maloeran Eheh erik :)
20:44.36 ``Erik lemme go poke him for ya
20:47.15 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:47.32 Maloeran Good afternoon Justin
20:47.43 Twingy hey
20:47.50 Twingy I keep forgetting to send mark something
20:47.52 Maloeran A quick question for you, if you have 7 seconds, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes?
20:48.01 Twingy yep
20:48.05 Maloeran What's the something, if I'm allowed to know?
20:48.17 Twingy paperwork stuff that allows us to hire you
20:48.30 Twingy been really busy >_<
20:48.39 ``Erik making cardboard xserves
20:48.43 Twingy and that
20:48.49 Twingy like I said, busy
20:48.50 Maloeran So always closed volumes... You know, keeping track of rays being inside/outside volumes as they traverse the geometry would be more reliable than discarding hits excessively close to the previous intersection
20:49.21 Twingy and that's the conclusion I came to about a year ago
20:49.21 Maloeran Thanks for the answer, I have to answer Mark's concerns on this
20:49.40 Maloeran Doesn't adrt use the distance method?
20:49.41 Twingy when I was complaining to the mgmt at a bnd meeting about this
20:49.46 Twingy for what?
20:49.56 Maloeran For discarding multiple "faulty" hits near edges
20:50.04 Twingy for overlaps?
20:50.07 Maloeran Yes
20:50.40 Maloeran Maybe I'm just not up-to-date, it has been a while since we discussed that particular issue
20:50.56 Twingy if you have a chunk of steel and a chunk of copper and they overlap by 1mm, then 1mm steel + 1mm copper get counted while traversing 1 mm
20:51.06 Twingy there is no "correct" way, there is simply a "consistent" way
20:51.22 Maloeran Okay, I'm refering to overlapping triangles, when a ray hits their common boundary
20:51.40 Twingy an edge?
20:51.43 Maloeran Yes
20:52.04 Twingy um, I'm not sure what I do actually, I don't have any algorithms that bork up because of that issue
20:52.19 Twingy I think my algorithms picks one or the other though
20:52.25 Twingy -s
20:52.35 Twingy triangle 'A' -or- 'B'
20:52.41 Twingy whichever is closest
20:52.42 brlcad Maloeran: generally, they are all solid volumes
20:52.59 Maloeran And you detect "faulty" hits from rays hitting both triangles from the very rapproched distance of the two intersections
20:53.11 Maloeran Thanks brlcad, so there are exceptions?
20:53.17 Twingy I avoid stupid algorithms that try to grasp a definitive answer from like 10 rays
20:53.36 Twingy I prefer numerically integrating over the problem to converge
20:53.54 Twingy that completely eliminates small errors
20:54.19 Twingy firing 10 trillion rays where 3 rays are degenerate on an edge simply doesn't matter
20:54.32 Maloeran Well, if all volumes are definitely closed, there's another way to solve this, avoiding playing with the range of numerical errors
20:54.52 Maloeran Ah, quite ;). Just trying to address Mark's concerns
20:55.06 Twingy a good tesselator doesn't create overlaps
20:55.33 Maloeran Triangles overlap because of numerical error in the ray-triangle intersections, it's unavoidable
20:55.34 Twingy but we have crappy geometry usually
20:55.35 ``Erik too bad we don't use good tesselators (yet)
20:56.00 Twingy because of numerical instability in IEEE 754 actually
20:56.05 Maloeran Right
20:56.24 Twingy like I said, my stuff is built around not caring about LIVE -or- DIE based on 3 rays
20:56.38 Twingy I think that's a retarded way of thinking about things
20:56.42 brlcad it's not usually numerical error that results in the overlaps
20:56.46 Twingy based on todays technology available
20:56.52 brlcad it's either bonefide modeling overlaps
20:57.07 brlcad or it's a result of inadequate or at least inconsistent tessellation
20:57.23 Maloeran I'm refering to triangles sharing a common edge, brlcad. They are considered distinct entities, and a ray hitting right on the edge will hit both triangles
20:57.33 Twingy btw, you got any news with you an survice?
20:57.37 ``Erik proe->iges->proe->brlcad-bot-> ...
20:57.39 ``Erik ?
20:57.51 Twingy proe->iges->proe->brlcad->bot->adrt :)
20:58.12 brlcad ``Erik: the proe converter itself does fine to tesselate overlaps all by itself
20:58.13 Maloeran Apparently, they are almost ready to hire me to work from Canada until the visa is ready
20:58.23 Twingy on their stuff?
20:58.29 brlcad on their stuff
20:58.51 brlcad they tessellate based on alignment
20:58.57 brlcad modelers rarely align
20:59.06 Twingy modelers rarely think
20:59.10 brlcad so you end up with bolts in holes that don't match up
20:59.18 Maloeran Ahah. Nice
20:59.30 brlcad that's something I wouldn't want to care about while modeling
20:59.36 brlcad it's a bolt, it goes in the hole
21:00.08 brlcad the fact that rotating it 37.382 degrees might have helped the tessellator is a detail that is just a pita
21:00.11 Maloeran brlcad, any notable exceptions on the volumes of models you work with not being closed?
21:00.26 brlcad none come to mind
21:00.44 brlcad unless we're just playing around with something
21:00.45 Maloeran So this is pretty much a constant, okay.
21:00.50 brlcad pretty much
21:00.54 brlcad solid modeling ;)
21:01.05 Maloeran I know :), I was wondering if there were exceptions
21:01.07 Maloeran Thanks
21:01.07 brlcad otherwise we could just use a generic modeler
21:01.29 Twingy for a strong defense!
21:01.49 Twingy you coming in today?
21:01.55 Twingy mike keeps wandering in here
21:02.02 ``Erik cattleprod, dude
21:02.03 brlcad working on quantum stuff
21:02.11 Twingy I got no cattleprod
21:02.26 Twingy maybe I'll throw that broken hard drive at him
21:02.36 brlcad get that jpeg encoding working?
21:03.08 Twingy nyet, but I do have an algorithm I'm going to try coding up tonight
21:03.22 Twingy I didn't get home till past 10 last night
21:03.52 Twingy working on chucks algorithm
21:06.07 brlcad heh, that'd make for a nice book/paper
21:06.13 brlcad "chuck's algorithm"
21:06.18 Twingy yep
21:06.37 brlcad "bob's postulate"
21:06.49 brlcad "ed's conjecture"
21:06.57 Twingy "justin's color maker thingy"
21:07.14 brlcad woowwwoo woo knyuck knyuck knyuck
21:07.21 Twingy pjy would love reading those
21:07.24 Twingy pjt
21:07.31 Twingy pidgjit
21:08.09 ``Erik I wonder what he'd do if we started calling him pidjit
21:08.31 Twingy good question
21:08.36 Twingy he seems to fire people when they do good stuff
21:08.42 Twingy maybe you'd get a raise? *scratches head*
21:09.23 ``Erik heh, opposed to "you're fired!" it'd be "you're mgmt!"
21:09.47 Twingy haha
21:09.57 Twingy I might get division chief for that one
21:10.26 Maloeran Eheh. By the way Justin, for a manager, Mark did surprise me in his reply regarding the ray-tracer's specifications
21:10.42 Twingy hrm?
21:11.43 Maloeran He's just more knowledgeable on the technical stuff than I expected, he saw the potential flaw of rays hitting both triangles sharing an edge
21:11.52 Twingy ah
21:12.05 ``Erik probably cuz it's been an issue of great discussion for a while now? :)
21:12.16 Twingy for oh say, the last 25 years?
21:12.26 ``Erik the dreaded "overlap" spew
21:12.36 Maloeran Oh? :) Anyway it's solved, it was just not present in the specs draft
21:12.37 Twingy lee likes to babble about that
21:12.47 Twingy okie
21:13.07 ``Erik and the final line of the spec is "it ain't rocket science"
21:13.08 ``Erik ?
21:13.08 ``Erik :D
21:13.28 Twingy hehehe
21:13.33 Twingy *kaboom*
21:17.01 Maloeran It's there if you ever want to take a look, Justin : http://www.rayforce.net/manpages/ A first draft
21:18.01 ``Erik heh, kinda GL-ey
21:18.48 Maloeran Quite
21:19.10 ``Erik being able to deal with infiniband or myrinet without using the tcp/ip wrapper would probably be useful, no?
21:19.52 ``Erik strawberry sundaes? I think raspberry is a better choice :D
21:20.07 Maloeran That's what I thought, yes. It involves throwing all the low-level packets into the hands of the user, but I suppose that's the best solution
21:20.17 Maloeran Oh, absolutely :)
21:20.53 ``Erik those generated from roff?
21:21.36 ``Erik rtBuild, RT_HINT_FASTEST_BUILD, 'performance' should probably be singular
21:22.31 ``Erik heh, sed -i.bak s/erformances/erformance/g *
21:22.31 ``Erik o.O
21:22.32 Maloeran Ah yes, I still make this error. Thanks
21:22.44 ``Erik np :)
21:23.14 ``Erik "zero pointer"? a NULL?
21:24.19 Maloeran I prefer the use of zero, personal preference. People tend to forget the shortcuts from the fact that NULL is zero, bitwise arithmetics on multiple pointers and so on
21:24.29 Maloeran In the C standard, it's defined as the same thing anyway
21:25.46 ``Erik hm, is NULL actually guaranteed to be 0x0? I didn't think it was
21:25.46 ``Erik just like EXIT_SUCCESS isn't guaranteed to be 0, though I've never seen it otherwise
21:26.46 Maloeran NULL isn't garanteed to be 0x0, but assigning 0x0 to a pointer garantees it to be the equivalent of NULL... Go figure :p
21:30.51 Twingy nil
21:31.19 Twingy ``Erik, I feel like resuming my work on BAD
21:31.21 ``Erik nil is a good language agnostic term :)
21:31.29 ``Erik ok, do you need help interpretting?
21:31.34 Twingy nah
21:31.38 ``Erik aight
21:31.42 Twingy actually, I don't recall at this point
21:31.51 Twingy but I probly won't look at it today
21:32.01 ``Erik well, you need 3 algorithms in place to do it "for real"
21:32.05 Twingy yep
21:32.25 ``Erik and I have documentation and now reference code (java) for all 3
21:33.26 ``Erik neo over there coded it up... heh, he's been wearing big muff earphones with his ipod all freakin' day :)
21:34.04 Twingy haha
21:34.32 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:34.45 ``Erik adrt vl stuff was listed as "cancelled" at the ttm
21:34.57 ``Erik fyi
21:35.05 Twingy so? :)
21:35.39 ``Erik okie, just a minor detail, anything you do will be unexpected, so you have some cover from the magnifying glass
21:41.23 Twingy nah
21:41.27 Twingy that's why I do it off the clock :)
21:55.41 Twingy hrm
21:55.49 Twingy mike was explaining how his trigger guard gets cold

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