irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060708

00:00.11 ``Erik but if a forcing point is added, it's overflowed its area
00:00.13 brlcad since it's also an arbitrary list of polygon data
00:00.44 ``Erik rt_bot_export() ?
00:01.06 brlcad yeah, it will, and elsewhere in librt it handles how to deal with marking db nodes as invalid and reutilizing them as new writes are requested
00:01.25 brlcad from your perspective, though, you just return your binary block of data
00:02.06 ``Erik ahhhh, ok, so there is SOME notion of memory management built in, that's nice
00:02.26 brlcad :)
00:03.05 brlcad the database spec completely supports the idea.. how well the library implements it may be another contention point
00:03.32 brlcad still, that's a fix looking for a problem.. i'd do what the other prims do for now and not worry about it (as it's generally not a problem)
00:03.49 brlcad you can invoke a database compaction in mged with the "garbage_collect" command
00:04.14 brlcad (full instead of the on-going dynmaic reuse)
00:04.52 ``Erik hm
00:05.19 ``Erik and I suppose the interface for bot is a good example for metaballs?
00:06.01 brlcad for the db i/o it's probably not bad
00:06.03 brlcad relatively new
00:06.15 ``Erik I meant the user interface
00:06.17 brlcad a little contorted with the hooks into nmg, but it's still dynamic
00:06.32 brlcad ah, bot's have a very primitive interface
00:06.40 ``Erik <-- is able to make, like, boxes and spheres now...
00:06.50 ``Erik that's about the limit of my modelling ability iwth the package :)
00:07.06 brlcad i mean you can actually tweak individual triangle vertex positions, in fact you HAVE to edit them that way :)
00:07.18 brlcad there's no gui edit support, minimal menu support
00:07.26 brlcad so gui-wise, they're not there
00:07.42 brlcad something older would be better from that perspective like torus and arbs
00:07.44 ``Erik hehehe, I didn't say anything about graphical :)
00:07.57 ``Erik torus and arbs have a fixed number of values, though
00:08.08 ``Erik it's the dynamic nature that is difficult... :) I think o.O
00:08.11 brlcad btw, you mentioned the "in" command, that's src/mged/typein.c
00:08.28 brlcad some aspects of implementation are not in the library, the live in mged or libwdb
00:08.59 brlcad and src/tclscripts/mged of course for the tcl aspects
00:09.02 ``Erik I started going through manual II, I got as far as making the radio and learning a little about 'mater'
00:09.08 ``Erik that's as far as I've gotten so far...
00:09.27 ``Erik <-- ignyant
00:09.37 brlcad right, torus and arbs are fixed values but again that only affects the _export() and _import() routines
00:09.52 brlcad that doesn't affect the mged hookage or raytracing
00:10.50 ``Erik um, I'm not sure I understand... arb4 takes 4 points... period... you can't add another point to it ... or delete a point...
00:10.57 brlcad there's a laundry list of about 10 files that HAVE to be updated to properly add a new primitive (v5 only), and a couple optional
00:11.17 ``Erik g_xxx.c lists some of that... I'm not sure it's complete, or entirely correct...
00:11.35 brlcad the g_ file is one of the 10
00:11.55 ``Erik g_xxx.c (and two others) have a big comment that say "do this, then do that, then edit this..."
00:12.08 brlcad there's the object table in librt, the typein cmd, the make cmd, mged menu, couple headers, *scratches head*
00:12.20 ``Erik talks about rtgeom.h, db.h, the function table, ...
00:12.40 brlcad teh g_ template only tells you how to hook the primitive in for ray-tracing, not creation or editing
00:12.46 ``Erik starting at line 27...
00:13.31 brlcad those directions are outdated
00:13.35 ``Erik I figured...
00:13.36 brlcad those are v4 instructions
00:13.45 ``Erik lee told me to look at 'em... I've had no success with those...
00:13.55 ``Erik I doubt lee has added a v5 primitive
00:14.21 brlcad the superell is the newest primitive to be added -- it's incomplete from a ray-trace perspective but it IS hooked into all the right place and is easy to grep on
00:15.50 brlcad only thing you'll have to watch out for is that it also implements v4 support, which you really shouldn't bother with
00:17.58 brlcad this gives the list:
00:18.00 brlcad find . -type f \( -name \*.c -or -name \*.h \) -exec grep -r -i superell {} /dev/null \; | cut -f1 -d: | sort | uniq
00:18.23 ``Erik heh... I know 'nuff unix for that shit, dude :)
00:18.24 brlcad you don't need db.h, that's v4
00:18.41 brlcad hey, just trying to help :P
00:18.53 ``Erik <-- not gonna look at it until thursday, is doing greening
00:19.14 ``Erik drinking and womanizing on the weekend, then greening, *THEN* coding :D *duck*
00:19.15 brlcad looks like I was right on the mark -- 10 files
00:19.30 brlcad ahh, I still haven't done greening
00:20.04 ``Erik I'm kinda surprised I'm going... jay-lo is, too
00:20.10 brlcad wonder if it's any more informative than a week at ROTC training
00:20.21 ``Erik the agenda looks interesting
00:20.29 ``Erik have you done a week at rotc?
00:20.35 brlcad yeah
00:20.57 ``Erik heh
00:20.59 *** join/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net)
00:21.10 ``Erik <-- did 3 yrs njrotc... decided it sucked balls, so started growing his hair
00:21.17 brlcad did the whole survival boot camp, disassemble m16's, go shooting, go rapelling, early morning pt, etc
00:21.48 ``Erik heh
00:21.50 brlcad was considering joining rotc at the time just on a whim
00:22.12 brlcad almost did, no particular reason I didn't other than it was a huge amount of time and I wanted to leave my options open :)
00:22.39 ``Erik njrotc is very navy focused, and just highschool kids, so *shrug* :) no obligations
00:22.43 brlcad shooting the m16 is pretty fun, I could see doing that as a hobby
00:22.43 ``Erik just a way to get out of gym
00:23.00 ``Erik I'm hoping they let us shoot 'em on monday
00:23.15 ``Erik supposed to go to the range to learn about m16, m203, and m14...
00:23.16 brlcad i hear they don't any more.. but who knows.. it's been years
00:23.30 ``Erik I've held an m203 combo, and worn night vision goggles... haven't shot one
00:24.06 ``Erik hehehe
00:24.14 ``Erik those'd be a wee bit trickier to work out :D
00:24.28 brlcad you'd think of all the places that could be arranged... :)
00:24.32 ``Erik supposedly the third day, they'll have two abrams and two bradleys... "with drivers"
00:25.10 ``Erik 40 knots on 5" of water is fun shit :)
00:26.08 brlcad http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/
00:26.52 ``Erik man, you went and shuffled all my files so I'm not even listed *sigh*
00:26.55 brlcad that has bad author line counts due to the open sourcing "significant derivative work"
00:27.22 brlcad here's a normalized one that takes it out of the picture, but then scews the project line count: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs.normalized/
00:28.03 ``Erik huh, only 486 of my lines remain unmutilated
00:28.32 brlcad it's not counting remaining -- it only basis the numbers on +- values in the commit log, not an annotate
00:29.00 brlcad you feed it a cvs log and the sources only, so it's only the info it derives from those two
00:29.18 brlcad i ran the same tool on m3 and bzflag.. interesting results :)
00:29.31 brlcad i love how on the Authors page, you can actually see how different devs work
00:29.46 brlcad i mean you can see when jra changed his schedule and when he even goes to lunch!
00:30.54 brlcad you can see who's a 9-5er and who works around the clock, who infrequently participates, who's heavily involved, etc
00:31.07 ``Erik hm
00:31.12 ``Erik m3 cvs behavior is very... sub-par.
00:31.23 ``Erik I'm sure you noticed long silences, then bursts of huge activity
00:31.31 ``Erik from the dev's sitting on their changes for weeks at a time
00:31.43 ``Erik and quit calling it m3, you're sullying the name of my car!!!
00:31.56 brlcad lets just say you can see when the demo was given and the aftermath
00:32.02 ``Erik hah
00:32.42 brlcad the only thing that statcvs doesn't show that would be cool is the magnitude of the commit, it's more frequency
00:33.00 brlcad coloring them as a heat graph instead of just red would be sweet
00:33.12 ``Erik so, uh... fix it?
00:33.20 ``Erik I'm sure it's just a littel perl script or something :)
00:33.52 ``Erik http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/normal_kittens.jpeg
00:34.11 brlcad ask me how much time I want to put into a cvs graph program
00:34.42 ``Erik not the 10 minutes to make the change? heh
00:34.47 brlcad there are others that can be run that work on the cvsroot, i might give one of them a try
00:35.14 brlcad what it did point out, though is that there are about 6 bad rcs/cvs files with wierdness in them
00:35.26 brlcad one of them you somehow caused, and like 5 others in librt
00:35.43 ``Erik wow, I broke a file? awesome
00:35.45 ``Erik which one?
00:35.53 brlcad some header in h/ that was removed
00:36.03 ``Erik bah, who cares, then
00:36.05 ``Erik :)
00:36.19 brlcad well it causes problems when you branch and merge I've noticed
00:36.22 brlcad at least the librt ones
00:36.44 brlcad it will revive the librt directory on the branch and if you're not paying attention, you commit it
00:37.05 brlcad has happened several times and even after it gets deleted again, it's revived later due to whatever is bad in the base rcs file
00:37.49 ``Erik how exactly is it 'bad'?
00:38.44 brlcad i haven't looked into the cause, just noticed the effect
00:58.25 Twingy Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.
00:58.25 Twingy I am really sorry for the priviuos responce.However, due to the competitive nature of this business, we can not discuss information on unannounced future products. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.
00:58.26 Twingy Regards,
00:58.28 Twingy NVIDIA Customer Care.
00:58.53 ``Erik nice spelling
00:59.08 Twingy *cough* out-source much *cough*
00:59.41 Twingy I just need a 20" display for this machine and it'll be bangin
01:20.52 IriX64 I Trust I am amongst friends here? a greeting i used to use when i first entered a channel.
01:21.37 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:21.40 IriX64 gotta go, new toy...vmware 5.5 or something.
01:34.02 Twingy yet he still needs to reboot
01:34.46 Twingy I wonder if Irix64 is Unitions cousin
01:36.01 brlcad he's a quirky old timer
01:38.13 Twingy laptops ship?
01:48.27 ``Erik hahaha
02:45.12 *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
02:57.45 bjorkBSD brlcad does this sorta thing, right? -> http://www.varicad.com/gallery.phtml
03:09.32 brlcad bjorkBSD: sure does
03:10.09 brlcad limited gallery here: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
03:11.15 brlcad alas would love to chat more, but tis time to recouperate for morning training session
03:11.33 bjorkBSD okay. thanks it looks good.
04:02.08 *** part/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net)
06:43.52 *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
08:53.26 *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-66-72-64-24.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
13:58.56 *** join/#brlcad ^Eugenics (n=^Eugenic@bau06-1-89-81-0-71.dsl.club-internet.fr)
14:21.48 ^Eugenics does anyone know where to find a link that describes how to make drafts with brlcad?
15:23.20 brlcad there's not really a link that describes the process, brl-cad has limited drafting capabilities mostly geared around providing the hidden line drawings sans annotations
15:23.59 brlcad rtedge is the hidden line renderer, has a manpage, example at http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
15:32.59 ^Eugenics piere told me about a render to ps -> pstoedit (dxf) and then finnish up in a 2d cad app.
15:33.24 ^Eugenics it's a pinc solutionn but still something
15:33.55 ^Eugenics panic
15:57.15 brlcad yeah, you can save any mged wireframe to postscript
15:57.56 brlcad there's an output option on the file menu, as well as a handful of mged commands
15:58.55 brlcad the MGED Quick Reference might be of interest if you haven't seen it: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
16:00.04 brlcad under the Manipulating the View section, it shows the "ps" command to save to postscript -- you can similarly save to a unix .pl plot file and use pl-ps on the command line outside mged as well
16:33.49 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:34.42 clock_ my first patch submitted to brlcad ;-)
16:36.32 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:40.50 brlcad clock_: cool
16:42.24 clock_ brlcad: I guess it's OK. I hope there are not system which BRLCAD supports where #include <time.h> doesn't work and one has to write extern long time();.
16:43.59 clock_ brlcad: I installed OpenBSD instead of Linux.
16:44.14 clock_ What was BSD developed on? BSD? Commercial UNIX?
16:44.22 clock_ BSD -> BRL-CAD
17:11.55 brlcad clock_: actually there are systems that don't have time.h still around, but they are pretty darn obscure
17:12.04 brlcad 20+ year old systems most likely
17:12.46 brlcad BRL-CAD was developed on a myriad of systems including BSD and SYSV variants from 20+ years ago (hence where the extern long time() comes from)
17:14.12 clock_ brlcad: so is my patch OK?
17:24.35 ``Erik which obsd did you install?
17:26.55 clock_ 3.9 the latest
17:27.00 clock_ do you use obsd?
17:27.32 clock_ mged doesn't run without glx module inserted in X, is this mentioned in the README?
17:32.46 ``Erik I have 3.8 installed on a work box
17:32.53 brlcad mged will run without X
17:33.17 brlcad the binaries just happen to be set up for x11/ogl
17:33.31 Twingy any news on laptops?
17:33.36 clock_ so it's a problem of opengl installation in this case
17:33.48 brlcad Twingy: on schedule
17:33.56 Twingy jul 15th?
17:34.04 brlcad 21
19:27.08 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
21:07.04 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:07.11 Lapo Hi all guys :-D
21:09.56 Lapo I got this problem when trying to start mged:
21:10.00 Lapo mged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid
21:10.08 Lapo Can someone help me please?
21:19.18 Lapo Anybody there?
21:33.20 brlcad hello
21:34.48 brlcad if you do a "file /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19" and "file /usr/lib/libm.so" (or whatever .so in there) .. what do you get?
21:34.49 Lapo Hi brlcad :-)
21:35.00 Lapo just a moment
21:35.40 Lapo libtermio.so.19: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (Free BSD), not stripped
21:36.28 Lapo libm.so: symbolic link to `../../lib/libm.so.6'
21:36.57 brlcad "file /lib/libm.so.6"
21:37.55 Lapo libm-2.3.3.so
21:38.17 brlcad keep running file until you get to the actual library
21:38.26 Lapo ok
21:38.36 brlcad or just look in the dir and pick one of the real libraries
21:38.40 ``Erik or resolve it *shrug*
21:38.41 brlcad doesn't matter which
21:39.12 Lapo libm-2.3.3.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
21:39.24 ``Erik what OS are you running, lapo?
21:39.35 Lapo Linux Mandrake 10.1 Community
21:39.45 Lapo on pentium 4
21:39.48 ``Erik then why are you trying to run a freebsd binary of brlcad?
21:39.57 Lapo ehm...
21:40.23 Lapo ok let me check che tar.gz file I downloaded yesterday
21:40.25 brlcad which binary distribution did you download?
21:41.09 ``Erik you need the one from "BRLCAD for Linux" which is 7.8.0, not the one that is "BRLCAD for FreeBSD"
21:41.10 Lapo damn I 've deleted the tar.gz
21:41.11 ``Erik :)
21:41.12 brlcad you probably want< http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2?download
21:41.29 Lapo ok I try to install it again
21:41.36 Lapo sorry for the stupid problem
21:41.54 brlcad not resolved yet, but hopefully that was the problem
21:48.45 Lapo ouch...
21:49.03 Lapo I've installed the version you give me.
21:49.31 Lapo when trying to launch mged it says me:
21:49.34 Lapo Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init
21:49.35 Lapo Mutex destroy failure: Device or resource busy
21:49.35 Lapo ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8753, errno = 0
21:49.35 Lapo ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8765, errno = 0
21:49.43 Lapo Detached
21:49.50 brlcad hrmph
21:50.02 Lapo I'm really unlucky with brlcad
21:50.10 brlcad ls -la /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk*
21:50.50 Lapo a lot of output...
21:51.16 brlcad heh
21:51.52 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:52.21 *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:52.32 brlcad ~pastebin
21:52.33 ibot pastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
21:52.34 Lapo sorry I was banned cause flooding
21:56.55 Lapo http://pastebin.ca/82749
21:59.45 brlcad echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
21:59.52 Lapo thanks for the tip :-)
21:59.59 Lapo ok
22:00.22 brlcad in general if it's more than 4 lines, use pastebin :)
22:00.35 Lapo ok ;-)
22:00.46 Lapo ehm... no output
22:00.46 brlcad also: ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
22:00.53 brlcad okay, that's fine
22:02.19 Lapo http://pastebin.ca/82754
22:02.47 Lapo I suppose I have to check if I have all these library now
22:03.17 brlcad no, you have them or the output would be different
22:03.27 Lapo ok
22:03.52 brlcad what's odd is that it can't find Tk_Init
22:04.33 Lapo I got a similar problem months ago when installed an older version of brlcad
22:05.07 brlcad nm /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk.a | grep Tk_Init | grep -v U
22:05.58 Lapo 00000358 T Tk_InitOptions
22:05.58 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitConsoleChannels
22:05.58 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs
22:06.09 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs
22:06.10 Lapo 00000000 T Tk_InitStubs
22:06.10 Lapo 00001c50 T Tk_Init
22:06.46 brlcad baffling
22:06.57 brlcad you have Tk_Init right there
22:07.22 Lapo yeah
22:07.44 brlcad you might have to just compile the package yourself
22:08.06 Lapo wow
22:08.12 brlcad it's pretty simple
22:08.12 Lapo that's an hard task :-)
22:08.17 Lapo oh ok
22:08.37 Lapo or maybe I'll use the Windows version
22:08.57 brlcad download this: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2?download
22:09.14 Lapo ok now I try
22:09.30 brlcad then when it decompresses, run "./configure --enable-optimized"
22:09.54 brlcad then "make", then "sudo make install" or however you become superuser to install binaries
22:10.06 brlcad delete everything in /usr/brlcad before you start
22:10.22 Lapo ok
22:15.25 Lapo configure gone
22:15.33 Lapo now make
22:24.22 Lapo make still running....
22:43.10 Lapo make ok
22:43.16 Lapo now make install
22:45.38 brlcad see, not so painful
22:45.47 Lapo :-D
22:46.11 Lapo finish
22:46.24 Lapo damn
22:46.29 Lapo same problem
22:46.34 brlcad really?
22:46.43 Lapo Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init
22:46.52 Lapo :-(
22:47.14 brlcad try mged -c
22:47.24 brlcad does it still give that error?
22:47.30 Lapo no
22:47.36 Lapo it aske me for an input
22:47.48 Lapo (nu|X|ogl|)
22:47.49 brlcad hit enter
22:48.04 brlcad you're at an mged prompt?
22:48.07 Lapo now I have "mged>"
22:48.11 Lapo yes
22:48.21 brlcad run "gui"
22:48.43 Lapo invalid command "gui"
22:49.40 Lapo It works!!!
22:49.42 Lapo finally
22:49.49 brlcad hrm?
22:49.58 Lapo I started mged from /usr/brlcad/bin
22:50.18 Lapo before I was starting it by typing simply mged
22:50.19 brlcad you mean you changed directories to there?
22:50.40 brlcad or just typed it all out?
22:50.53 Lapo if I run locate mged:
22:52.10 Lapo "/usr/bin/mged"
22:52.20 Lapo "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged"
22:52.31 Lapo I have two mged....
22:52.37 brlcad /usr/bin ... wicked..
22:52.44 Lapo yes
22:53.34 Lapo Now I'm ready to explore brlcad
22:53.40 Lapo thanks a lot :-D
22:54.36 brlcad how'd you get an mged in /usr/bin?
22:54.51 Lapo I don't know
22:55.05 Lapo maybe I copied it there in a past installation
22:55.21 Lapo Do you think it's better to delete it?
22:56.51 brlcad probably
22:56.59 Lapo ok
22:57.01 brlcad the problem is who knows what else you copied there :)
22:57.14 brlcad what does ldd /usr/bin/mged say?
22:57.16 Lapo LOL
22:58.40 Lapo http://pastebin.ca/82798
23:00.55 brlcad ahhh
23:00.58 brlcad that explains it
23:01.08 brlcad that mged wasn't linked against Tk
23:01.21 Lapo ouch
23:02.48 Lapo thanks for your support
23:02.53 Lapo bye ;-)
23:02.56 brlcad no problem
23:02.59 brlcad glad it works
23:03.10 *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
23:21.09 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)

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