| 00:30.34 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308317.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:33.37 | IriX64 | if you could have brlcad on any platform you don't already support what would it be? |
| 00:35.11 | IriX64 | canonicalized please. |
| 00:37.38 | IriX64 | c2-cray-unicos all right? ;) |
| 00:44.29 | IriX64 | recompiled gcc last evening needs a real workout :) |
| 00:46.12 | IriX64 | Twingy... got vmware installed but every time i ask for a licence their server sends it but it never arrives, tried three different e-mail addresses, just goes to digital heaven or something. |
| 00:54.40 | IriX64 | ValarQ: because my handy little screen capture program behaves that way :) |
| 01:00.51 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 01:01.36 | pra5ad | "Turn this b**ch motherf***er LEFT!!" |
| 01:01.47 | pra5ad | SoaP was hilarious |
| 01:07.22 | *** join/#brlcad BrownBear (n=nathanie@74.137.58.249) | |
| 01:39.45 | brlcad | IriX64: actually, I've been wanting to put together a BeOS/ZetaOS build for quite some time |
| 01:40.24 | brlcad | I have discs for them sitting right over (*reaches*) there, but have yet to find a suitable machine to install it onto |
| 01:46.58 | BrownBear | hello, anybody willing to give a hand with an install problem? |
| 01:58.51 | IriX64 | brlcad: those are both os's i need arch and os. |
| 01:59.04 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:59.46 | IriX64 | BrownBear: perhaps if you stated your problem... |
| 02:01.09 | BrownBear | thanks IriX64, just making sure people are awake before I start rambling. |
| 02:01.29 | BrownBear | I'm going through a make right now that almost looks promising, I'll get back to you quickly if it doesn't go well this time |
| 02:02.02 | IriX64 | what arch/os? |
| 02:03.21 | IriX64 | Zeta? how bout alpha/omega systems. :) |
| 02:03.50 | IriX64 | The ZetaOs are they still developing it? |
| 02:07.20 | brlcad | zetaos is pretty new |
| 02:07.32 | BrownBear | Ok, it failed again. Whenever I try to make after running ./configure, it gives out errors related to tk |
| 02:07.43 | brlcad | BrownBear: someone is always listening and will eventually respond if you hang in the channel long enough |
| 02:07.53 | brlcad | BrownBear: are you using a source dist or CVS? |
| 02:07.58 | BrownBear | source |
| 02:08.03 | brlcad | what ver? |
| 02:08.14 | BrownBear | 7.8.2 |
| 02:08.32 | brlcad | the errors related to Tk are probably X11 symbols/declarations missing |
| 02:08.45 | brlcad | do you have X11 headers/libs installed? |
| 02:09.13 | brlcad | if this is a debian/ubuntu system, there's a separate apt for them |
| 02:09.17 | BrownBear | that's a good question, one that I'm sure is "no" |
| 02:09.33 | brlcad | what's the OS? |
| 02:09.49 | BrownBear | debian |
| 02:09.52 | brlcad | ) |
| 02:10.18 | brlcad | yeah, that's almost certainly the problem then |
| 02:10.56 | BrownBear | cool. should i go for the libx11-6 stuff or the xlibs-data? |
| 02:11.12 | IriX64 | whats the error say the first one (pardon brlcad) |
| 02:11.15 | brlcad | i forget the name of the package to install, think it depends whether you're xorg or xfree and some other detail.. |
| 02:11.59 | BrownBear | the first error i get is: |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | tk.h:98:23: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | In file included from tkPort.h:20, |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | tk.h:574: error: syntax error before 'Window' |
| 02:12.09 | BrownBear | then it kinda goes on from there for about 600 more lines |
| 02:12.12 | brlcad | yeah, missing X11 header |
| 02:12.24 | brlcad | then it just dumps about every X11 symbol under the sun |
| 02:12.37 | brlcad | that's a -dev package iirc |
| 02:13.48 | IriX64 | shouldnt even configure. |
| 02:13.49 | BrownBear | cool, i appreciate it fellas. i'll try installing those and see where it goes |
| 02:14.22 | IriX64 | try --without-x |
| 02:14.58 | BrownBear | i can appreciate the "wait for a response". I used to run a jeep channel on undernet, could go hours and hours without a sord being said, then it was 25 voices all at once |
| 02:16.15 | brlcad | don't use --without-x |
| 02:16.33 | brlcad | that would probably work, but it disables some aspects that you probably want |
| 02:16.42 | brlcad | BrownBear: I think it's xlibs-dev |
| 02:17.46 | BrownBear | thanks brlcad, i apt'd libx11-dev cause it popped up in my search, if it doesn't work, i'll give xlibs a try |
| 02:21.36 | brlcad | hopefully not mixing xfree stuff with xorg stuff ;) |
| 02:22.00 | brlcad | should still work header-wise, but it can cause problems if you link with the wrong library |
| 02:22.06 | brlcad | guess you'll find out ;) |
| 02:23.10 | BrownBear | i got a rude awakening when i did a dist-upgrade and found that i lost all x abilities |
| 02:23.26 | BrownBear | had to rebuild it all, believe it's xorg now |
| 02:24.55 | BrownBear | i'm watching make build tk stuff right now, maybe i got lucky? |
| 02:25.07 | BrownBear | that's a big negative |
| 02:25.14 | BrownBear | but i got much further this time |
| 02:27.04 | brlcad | probably got to a link phase and it errored? |
| 02:27.14 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:27.35 | brlcad | those are the only two system assumptions that come to mind |
| 02:27.44 | BrownBear | ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XSetInputFocus' |
| 02:27.44 | BrownBear | ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XFreePixmap' |
| 02:27.44 | BrownBear | ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XCreateGlyphCursor' |
| 02:27.53 | brlcad | ahh yeah, link phase |
| 02:28.06 | brlcad | you did run ./configure again, yes? |
| 02:28.11 | BrownBear | yup |
| 02:28.16 | BrownBear | and make clean before |
| 02:28.34 | brlcad | didn't need that, but configure yes ;) |
| 02:29.13 | brlcad | that implies some other pacakge still missing, X11 libraries (Xlib) |
| 02:29.29 | brlcad | they're separate from the -dev headers |
| 02:29.38 | BrownBear | i'm confused, which package is right for an xorg system, libx11-dev or xlibs-dev? |
| 02:30.52 | brlcad | asking the wrong dev if you want to know for sure -- what's their respective description? |
| 02:31.24 | BrownBear | xlibs-dev - X Window System client library development files dummy package |
| 02:31.24 | BrownBear | libx11-dev - X11 client-side library (development headers) |
| 02:32.26 | brlcad | "sounds" like the latter, but then I'm no debian expert |
| 02:32.32 | brlcad | what does it say for xorg-x11-devel |
| 02:32.43 | brlcad | are you not running X11 already? |
| 02:34.22 | brlcad | locate libX11 | grep X11R6/lib |
| 02:36.16 | BrownBear | yes, I have X11 running |
| 02:36.31 | BrownBear | had to dig to make sure |
| 02:37.05 | *** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@pool-70-17-115-114.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 02:41.24 | BrownBear | weird, i asked it to install xlibs-dev, had pm-dev as a depend, which had xfree86-common as a dependancy |
| 02:41.53 | brlcad | sounds like that might not be the one then |
| 02:41.58 | brlcad | if you really are running xorg |
| 02:42.33 | BrownBear | i hope not, cause it's asking to download 904MB |
| 02:42.44 | brlcad | really don't want to mix the two up .. maybe asking around in #debian before proceeding blind :) |
| 02:43.16 | brlcad | for what it's worth, the linux binaries as posted for 7.8.2 should actually run fine on debian |
| 02:44.20 | BrownBear | i tried those, and had a problem with mged not finding libtermio.so.19 |
| 02:44.31 | BrownBear | thought this would fix it, but has led to one problem after another |
| 02:48.43 | BrownBear | i've read that linking to that file should fix the problem but have had little luck |
| 02:51.13 | brlcad | if that's the only library, you might get away with just compiling libtermio |
| 02:51.31 | brlcad | cd src/libtermio && make |
| 02:52.44 | brlcad | if that works cleanly, run 'make install' after you have installed the binary brl-cad that complains and it should theoretically be good to go |
| 02:53.01 | brlcad | do you still have the binary installed? |
| 02:54.19 | BrownBear | i have it untarred, but i was under the impression that all one needed to do was copy the usr/brlcad directory over to /usr/bin then export PATH........ |
| 02:54.34 | brlcad | not exactly |
| 02:54.52 | brlcad | you copy the usr/brlcad dir to /usr/. (so you end up with /usr/brlcad) |
| 02:55.07 | brlcad | then add /usr/brlcad/bin to your PATH |
| 02:55.40 | brlcad | adding it to your path is actually optional - you can directly run apps by specifying the full path, e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 02:55.56 | BrownBear | roger |
| 02:56.06 | brlcad | if you have it untarred, what does this report: nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 02:56.09 | BrownBear | and when i do that, out comes "can not open shared library...." blah blah |
| 02:56.27 | brlcad | it will not run until it is installed correctly into /usr/brlcad |
| 02:56.55 | brlcad | (i.e. you cannot run it from usr/brlcad (note the lack of the root /) |
| 02:57.21 | BrownBear | the nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged command spits out lots and lots and lots of stuff |
| 02:57.37 | brlcad | can you paste it to pastebin? |
| 02:57.52 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 02:57.59 | ibot | hmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net |
| 03:03.38 | brlcad | no luck? |
| 03:03.57 | BrownBear | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141756 |
| 03:04.02 | BrownBear | responding kinda slow |
| 03:04.35 | brlcad | gah, i meand ldd, not nm :) |
| 03:05.49 | BrownBear | i thought 2000 lines was a little too much, but who knows.... :) |
| 03:06.43 | BrownBear | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141767 |
| 03:07.43 | brlcad | that looks mostly good .. try installing it .. rm -rf /usr/brlcad && mv usr/brlcad /usr/brlcad |
| 03:08.13 | brlcad | then run ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 03:09.10 | BrownBear | shoudl it be in /usr/brlcad or /usr/bin/brlcad, or does it matter? |
| 03:09.54 | brlcad | it does matter |
| 03:09.58 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad |
| 03:10.19 | brlcad | just like how you have /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local ... this is /usr/brlcad |
| 03:10.31 | brlcad | and each of those has a bin inside |
| 03:10.33 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): s/RT_RESOURCE_CHECK/RT_CK_RESOURCE/g .. we really don't need two macros that do the exact same check. consolidate to just one sans a deprecation warning, using the prevalent CK convention instead. |
| 03:15.02 | BrownBear | looks just about the same, http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141774 |
| 03:15.41 | BrownBear | actually, no it doesn't |
| 03:15.42 | brlcad | not at all the same |
| 03:15.44 | BrownBear | looks much better |
| 03:15.47 | brlcad | that's fully resolved |
| 03:15.49 | brlcad | it should run |
| 03:16.14 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 03:16.21 | brlcad | OR |
| 03:16.27 | brlcad | export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH |
| 03:16.28 | brlcad | mged |
| 03:16.55 | BrownBear | ah, so close |
| 03:16.57 | BrownBear | export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH |
| 03:17.08 | BrownBear | well, that's not at all what I meant to post |
| 03:17.16 | BrownBear | nathaniel@debian:/usr/brlcad$ error getting working directory name: no such file or directory |
| 03:17.17 | BrownBear | MGED Aborted. |
| 03:17.46 | BrownBear | there it is |
| 03:17.51 | BrownBear | i was still in the /usr/bin directory |
| 03:18.05 | BrownBear | wow cool, it is actually running |
| 03:18.11 | BrownBear | thank you so very much brlcad |
| 03:18.52 | brlcad | no problem, glad to hear it's working |
| 03:19.04 | BrownBear | i've been waiting to try this for months |
| 03:19.27 | brlcad | you've found the tutorials, quick reference sheets, and other materials on brlcad.org already I hope? |
| 03:19.31 | BrownBear | are you a maintainer of the brlcad software/sourceforge sites? |
| 03:19.35 | BrownBear | yes i have |
| 03:19.37 | BrownBear | thank you |
| 03:19.45 | brlcad | if your interested in getting involved in the project, we're always looking for help ;) |
| 03:19.52 | brlcad | yeah, I'm the lead dev |
| 03:20.14 | BrownBear | i don't know anything about programming, but i think i have some good notes on why this wouldn't work for me <all my own ignorance, as usual> |
| 03:20.34 | BrownBear | i could write them up and submit them to you or whomever it would be appropriate |
| 03:20.49 | brlcad | that would be great |
| 03:20.55 | BrownBear | maybe it could help other people, since i've seen this linking issue with the binaries talked about before on the help site |
| 03:21.24 | brlcad | even negative criticism if it can be worded in some useful/directional/productive manner is highly appreciated |
| 03:22.13 | BrownBear | was this the software once used at FMC for the Bradley? |
| 03:22.24 | brlcad | the more involved helping design and steer its development, the better imho |
| 03:22.51 | brlcad | FMC? |
| 03:23.04 | brlcad | something? materiel command |
| 03:23.19 | brlcad | it was heavily used on the bradley |
| 03:24.10 | brlcad | it's still the definitive cad system in production use for vulnerability and lethality analysis, used by the tri-service community as part of a JTCG directive |
| 03:24.12 | BrownBear | FMC was Farm Machinery Corporation, they made the M2 and M3 Bradleys for years before being bought by United Defense LLP, which was recently bought by BAE Systems |
| 03:25.05 | brlcad | ahh, united defense |
| 03:25.53 | BrownBear | My dad has been working ont he M3 program since I was a little one |
| 03:26.09 | brlcad | yes, it was .. though there are other models of the bradley out there for different purposes .. manufacturing and analyses being the predominant two that come to mind -- brl-cad models are generally heavily focused on the analytic side |
| 03:26.09 | BrownBear | guess it's been about 24/25 years now |
| 03:26.30 | brlcad | brl-cad's been under development for about that long ;-) |
| 03:49.05 | *** join/#brlcad xipponk (n=knoppix@130.184.211.63) | |
| 03:49.23 | xipponk | does brlcad not have a drawing/cad interface? |
| 03:49.51 | brlcad | xipponk: minimal 2D support via a sketch primitive |
| 03:50.16 | xipponk | what's it called? |
| 03:50.17 | brlcad | you can generate unannotated hidden-line images very easily |
| 03:50.36 | brlcad | example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 03:50.41 | brlcad | what's what called? |
| 03:51.12 | brlcad | brl-cad supports a variety of primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png |
| 03:51.44 | brlcad | one of them is a sketch, a 2D outline of a shape -- the mged solid modeler has a relatively simple interface for creating and modifying sketch objects |
| 03:51.55 | brlcad | those sketch objects can then be extruded to create solid geometry |
| 03:52.04 | xipponk | cool. |
| 03:52.18 | xipponk | not mucho documentation i'm afraid. |
| 03:52.20 | brlcad | in general, though, that's not the modeling approach used as it is 2D-centric |
| 03:52.47 | BrownBear | solidworks can spoil ya |
| 03:52.50 | brlcad | there's fairly extensive documentation, depends where you're looking and what you're looking for |
| 03:53.09 | xipponk | hehehe |
| 03:53.15 | xipponk | i was looking at the tutorial |
| 03:53.23 | brlcad | BrownBear: that much is true, but then brl-cad's price tag is certainly a little bit better ;) |
| 03:53.54 | BrownBear | true, true |
| 03:54.03 | brlcad | xipponk: i *think* the principles guide might cover sketching |
| 03:54.33 | brlcad | it really is a minimal inteface though -- doesn't compare in the least to even something like qcad |
| 03:55.20 | BrownBear | i found qcad to be slow, and buggy |
| 03:55.38 | brlcad | that primitive mostly exists to support models that are imported from 2D based packages (e.g. autocad, or the 2D variety in packages like unigraphics) |
| 03:55.57 | brlcad | so that they can be manipulated, visualized, etc |
| 03:56.30 | brlcad | creating one from scratch using brl-cad existing sketch editor is not something I'd want to do myself |
| 03:57.01 | xipponk | how do you go about it then, brlcad? |
| 03:57.12 | brlcad | we focus mostly on the 3D aspects, on numerical stability, on ray-trace/analysis performance, etc |
| 03:57.13 | xipponk | i was wondering if i could export qcad sketches to brlcad |
| 03:57.33 | brlcad | qcad exports dxf, brl-cad has a dxf-g importer |
| 03:57.56 | brlcad | it should preserve the 2D sketches if they are well formed |
| 03:58.03 | xipponk | okay. |
| 03:58.18 | xipponk | i thought it might be a nice shortcut :D |
| 03:58.38 | brlcad | we don't get that request very often, though, so consider it non-stable |
| 03:59.24 | xipponk | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.49 | brlcad | we generally go about it by constructing in 3D, not 2D -- usually focus on CSG models combining the base primitives to form shapes, assemble those into regions/parts and those parts into groups/assemblies |
| 04:00.21 | xipponk | through the mged commandprompt right? |
| 04:01.04 | brlcad | command prompt, outboard tools assist certain complex operations, the gui and menus provide a lot of functionality |
| 04:01.44 | xipponk | outboard tools? |
| 04:01.47 | xipponk | i must be missing something. |
| 04:01.50 | brlcad | it's not a discoverable interface, users are traditionally trained before they can use the modeler (as one usually is to touch unigraphics/proe/solidworks/etc) |
| 04:02.19 | brlcad | you're probably reading docs on mged.. brl-cad is a system, mged is but one of over 400 tools |
| 04:02.19 | xipponk | oh i see. |
| 04:02.44 | brlcad | mind you, mged is one of the most useful/prominent right now, and is the primary gui solid modeling interface |
| 04:03.02 | brlcad | but there are other facilities and tools too that focus on specific tasks |
| 04:03.54 | brlcad | example model built entirely out of CSG operations on primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg |
| 04:04.24 | xipponk | hmm. |
| 04:04.28 | xipponk | that doesn't look simple. |
| 04:05.19 | brlcad | you wouldn't be able to approach a task like that tank without several weeks of brl-cad training, and the modeling effort would still take you a couple weeks.. that's a fairly highly detailed model |
| 04:05.36 | xipponk | ye gads. |
| 04:05.37 | brlcad | includes everything inside too, not just the pretty outside |
| 04:05.48 | xipponk | and all this done through the mged interface? |
| 04:05.55 | brlcad | as well as the terrain and other volumetric effects |
| 04:07.10 | brlcad | not all through mged, but probably 90% .. the tracks were modeled using another tool that helps replicate objects along a spline |
| 04:07.35 | brlcad | i'm sure the terrain was processed using a couple other data manipulation tools in brl-cad and then read in by mged |
| 04:07.45 | brlcad | everything else was though |
| 04:07.55 | xipponk | interesting. |
| 04:08.43 | brlcad | describing the material properties, the colors, the construction hierarchy, how to compose primitives into things that look like wheels and turrets, and hulls, etc |
| 04:09.16 | xipponk | the mged file for that. .. |
| 04:09.19 | xipponk | where do i find it? |
| 04:09.28 | brlcad | not public releasable, sorry |
| 04:09.35 | brlcad | wish I could actually |
| 04:09.45 | xipponk | ah it's actual brl/arl material? |
| 04:10.09 | brlcad | I've been trying to get release approval for one of the air force models of a russian tank that is just splendidly beautiful, but not getting too far there |
| 04:10.21 | brlcad | that one, yes |
| 04:10.29 | brlcad | the image is releasable, though ;-) |
| 04:10.52 | xipponk | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.59 | xipponk | the image ... is a tease! |
| 04:11.07 | brlcad | heh, yep |
| 04:11.22 | brlcad | that helicopter in the first image is in the distribution |
| 04:11.36 | brlcad | that's a real model of a russian attack helicopter, albeit slightly dumbed down |
| 04:11.53 | brlcad | s/slightly// |
| 04:12.30 | xipponk | slightly? |
| 04:12.52 | xipponk | it's missing the cannons? |
| 04:13.25 | brlcad | lets just say that it probably doesn't have as much detail as the real deal, but it's still a rather nice model to play with |
| 04:15.45 | brlcad | welp, I must depart .. if you have a question just post and lurk and someone should eventually respond -- cheers |
| 04:16.22 | xipponk | thanks man. |
| 04:25.21 | IriX64 | nice tank, and the conversation explains why I test with other peoples ms april.g files (read im not brlcad trained :)) |
| 04:29.13 | IriX64 | c2-cray-unicos-g++ <----get real :) |
| 04:30.50 | IriX64 | he rolled the dice, and tada a pair of 7's came up ;) |
| 04:32.24 | IriX64 | 12:30am and i'm talking to my self again, i'll probably spend time in the brig for this. |
| 04:51.44 | BrownBear | say i want to open up and view ktank.g in the db/ folder, how would i do that instead of doing draw part1, draw part2, etc....? |
| 05:33.44 | IriX64 | load it and do a tops then e "something" |
| 05:34.00 | IriX64 | in mged |
| 06:28.27 | IriX64 | ``Erik: c2 build done. |
| 06:33.16 | IriX64 | ValarQ: I hope you're awake. |
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| 07:29.35 | ``Erik | BrownBear: ktank is weird in that there is no toplevelg grouping... it's easy to make one, though, "g all.g u tank u g17 u computer u engine" I think should do it |
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