irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060829

00:41.58 *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-240-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
01:25.20 *** join/#brlcad haywood_giablomi (n=John_K@c-71-56-97-21.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
01:25.45 *** join/#brlcad sebastienbailard (n=sbailard@CPE000d88ba7a3b-CM001371169626.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
01:27.07 sebastienbailard Hello, anyone here today?
01:28.31 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca)
01:28.39 sebastienbailard Hey.
01:28.48 IriX64 hey
01:28.52 IriX64 sups?
01:29.00 sebastienbailard Don't know. Just came on.
01:29.11 sebastienbailard I think everyone is busy.
01:29.23 IriX64 usually you ask for help here.:)
01:29.29 IriX64 and they reply given time.
01:29.30 sebastienbailard Ah. I like to ask to ask, before I ask.
01:29.46 sebastienbailard I've got a question about brlcad's UI.
01:30.06 IriX64 i only type with two fingers, sorry im so slow.
01:30.11 sebastienbailard Are people planning on integrating qcad for 2D input?
01:30.18 IriX64 ask someone may answer.
01:30.26 IriX64 whats qcad?
01:30.41 sebastienbailard It's a really good linux 2d cad program.
01:31.04 sebastienbailard http://www.nabble.com/-brlcad---Developers--QCAD-integration-inside-BRL-CAD--t2001250.html
01:31.05 IriX64 brlcad is misnamed it should be brlmodelling.
01:31.26 sebastienbailard People use it to design machinery, right?
01:31.47 IriX64 model things, weapons systems and anything else.
01:32.06 sebastienbailard So it's a modeler, it's not for design?
01:32.12 sebastienbailard Huh.
01:32.21 IriX64 design *to model.
01:32.29 sebastienbailard Ah.
01:32.48 sebastienbailard It's just there aren't any decent gpl 3D CAD programs.
01:33.04 IriX64 gpl?
01:33.20 sebastienbailard GNU public license. Like linux, or emacs.
01:33.38 IriX64 so you want the cadillac for free?
01:33.51 sebastienbailard Pretty much, yes.
01:34.28 IriX64 well you have it in BrlCad :P
01:34.32 sebastienbailard The way it is right now, people at the mit-type fab labs use blender to design the stuff they fabricate.
01:34.58 sebastienbailard Right, but BrlCad's user interface is a little intimidating.
01:35.06 IriX64 how?
01:35.30 sebastienbailard Let's put it this way. I asked three experienced people what they thought of brl cad
01:35.39 sebastienbailard should I learn to use it, and so on.
01:35.46 IriX64 and?
01:35.49 sebastienbailard Got three 'no's.
01:36.03 IriX64 so why are you here?
01:36.16 sebastienbailard I was coming to ask about the qcad stuff.
01:36.39 IriX64 ill let someone who knows what qcad is answer that.
01:37.05 sebastienbailard I figured if people had a good way to do 2D input using brl cad, they'd be more motivated to learn the 3d stuff.
01:37.34 IriX64 why work in 2d when you can work in 3d.?
01:37.52 sebastienbailard 1) Sometimes all people need is 2d.
01:38.03 IriX64 Those experienced people couldn't have been experienced in brlcad.
01:38.08 sebastienbailard 2) People can figure out 2d easier than 3d.
01:38.34 sebastienbailard Ah yes. My point there was - they had all looked at brlcad, and were scared off.
01:38.54 IriX64 if the tool doesn't suit you buy another tool why should brlcad regress?
01:39.24 sebastienbailard I don't mean to be rude. My point is that brlcad might need a bit of candy-coating.
01:39.46 sebastienbailard Assuming you guys want more people to use brlcad.
01:39.47 IriX64 for those too lazy to take the tutorials?
01:40.38 sebastienbailard Ah. I didn't mean to offend.
01:41.58 sebastienbailard Is anyone else there?
01:44.40 sebastienbailard Is anyone using brlcad to generate g-code then?
06:33.46 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-93-198.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:44.18 *** join/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl)
07:45.18 SWAT How do I start brlcad, do I need to compile it and where is the README file?
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11:34.36 brlcad SWAT: brl-cad is a suite of many many tools .. what you "start" depends on what you want to do
11:35.03 brlcad most start with the solid modeler mged, which has a gui and associated documentation
11:36.23 brlcad SWAT: the readme is in both the source and binary distributions, in the binary distribution, it's embedded in the documentation directory in usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/README
11:37.42 brlcad in the source distribution, the README is right there in the top level directory
11:37.49 brlcad you can view it on-line here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/README
11:44.54 SWAT thanks
13:07.55 ``Erik in addition to the package inclusion...
13:26.07 SWAT well, it 'normal' to put the README in the top dir
13:26.18 SWAT just like the INSTALL (if applicable)
13:40.45 *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:42.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: Tcl_SetErrno dummy function
13:44.11 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: added bu_fgets.c
13:46.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: added transform.c
13:47.58 brlcad hello rossberg, how goes things?
13:51.19 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
13:58.56 rossberg brlcad: good, today is my first working day after vacation
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14:28.02 brlcad rossberg: ahh, nice
15:02.57 *** part/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl)
16:56.40 ``Erik 2/det
17:14.16 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/g_metaball.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language.
17:30.19 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fix a crash in the exporter...
17:33.01 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c typein.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language.
17:47.49 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (edsol.c sedit.h): Added "method" to metaball struct. Begin stubbing out ECMD stuff. Changed some language.
18:02.50 brlcad "method"?
18:03.02 ``Erik yeah
18:03.27 ``Erik selectable formulas for evaluating field strength at a given point
18:03.42 brlcad ahh
18:03.54 brlcad you coulda just said that :)
18:04.24 brlcad i'm thinking.. method for evaluation? method for rendering? c++ methods? method for deleting? method for creating? ?? :)
18:04.51 ``Erik uh, ok, sed -i.bak 's/method/selectableformulaforevaluatingfieldstrengthatagivenpoint/g' `find . -type f` && cvs commit -m 'rephrasing'
18:04.53 ``Erik :D
18:04.58 brlcad heh
18:05.47 ``Erik <-- ass
18:06.02 ``Erik my run-on sentences rock
18:11.43 *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:11.43 *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
19:34.42 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-90-174.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:07.06 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: It looks like the intent was to struct copy a "struct in_addr" in the _pkg_permserver_impl function.
20:09.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added method to purge edit history. More mods to accomodate ogl being replaced by wgl.
20:13.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c ged.c): Mods to get things to natively compile on Windows.
20:25.54 *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca)
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20:55.47 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: minor, consolidate return
21:11.40 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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21:27.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c:
21:27.57 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: get rid of the _WIN32 sections for recv/send instead of read/write .. this
21:27.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: really shouldn't be necessary if the compatibility macros in the config_win.h
21:27.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: header are specified correctly, but for now keep it as it is just without all
21:27.58 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: the repetition by using macros that call the corresponding routine. oh yeah,
21:28.00 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: and M-x indent-region ws too.
21:33.36 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: forgot to enclose macro params in parens
21:52.02 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: no need to forward declare it if we just move the definition up
21:54.27 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca)
22:28.30 brlcad does anyone know if there's an equivalent call for sync() on win32? not finding anything of use in docs/search
22:40.55 ``Erik grep headers for -i 'flush'?
22:42.35 brlcad starting to find stuff, found what cygwin does
22:42.52 ``Erik (does windows even buffer file descriptors? hahaha)
22:43.02 brlcad or at least a proposal for dealing with it at one point, which basically involves iterating over the fixed drives and callling FlushFileBuffers
22:43.42 ``Erik coo'
22:48.18 brlcad or I could just remove our four bastard usages of sync() and replace em with fsync()
22:51.04 brlcad though a bu_sync() would still be nice to have for bu_bomb() situations
22:54.15 ``Erik uhhhhh
22:54.27 ``Erik if sync() 'fails', your os is hosed and crashes...
22:54.28 ``Erik :)
22:54.47 ``Erik or locks
22:54.57 brlcad "not my problem?" :)
22:55.43 ``Erik well, ok
22:55.45 ``Erik look at it this way
22:55.50 ``Erik void sync(void);
22:55.57 ``Erik how do you figure out if that failed? :)
22:56.22 brlcad the standard doesn't actually require sync() to do anything either
22:56.28 ``Erik { ask syncer to do it's thing; block until syncer has done it's thing. }
22:56.37 brlcad which is why i'm just going to change it all to fsync which does
22:56.45 ``Erik that's probably better
22:57.05 ``Erik on a massively multi-user system, sync() could be a brutal pig of a function call, fsync is targetted
22:58.01 ``Erik <-- tells the linux kernel on that altix to schedule sync once every 42 days to prove his point :)
22:58.40 brlcad it can be a pig, but it should still return within a few seconds at worst
22:58.57 brlcad just as can be calling the sync command
22:59.23 brlcad kermit still issues sync after almost every command he types :)
22:59.31 ``Erik on large fs's with brutal activity, I've watched sync take disturbing amounts of time
22:59.34 brlcad due to old systems not doing it for you
22:59.37 ``Erik <-- does that a lot, too
22:59.41 ``Erik oh
22:59.50 ``Erik and if you have a flakey disk, sync can take a *LONG* time
23:00.01 ``Erik like a non-responsive nfs mount or something
23:00.43 ``Erik heh, or a raid array in the process of crapping itself. :(
23:02.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: fsync the file before closing it just to be safe
23:07.09 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fsync(), bsd func that some older systems don't have
23:16.07 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: remove the sync() call. instead just fsync() the currently open geometry database file. doxygenify the comments while we're in here.
23:21.13 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: rework db_sync() so that it always flushs and tries fsync() if available and only sync() as last resort.
23:26.40 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: sync via db_sync in db_close instead of manually duplicating what is conceptually db_sync's job
23:27.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: sync via db_sync instead of fsync'ing directly.
23:28.08 brlcad i'm just working down the list
23:28.29 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm_old/dm-mer.c: no protection for you
23:29.43 ``Erik hm, so you got src/proc-db/pix2g.c and src/util/op-bw.c, cool
23:29.45 ``Erik :)
23:30.53 brlcad yep
23:31.17 brlcad hence the alphabetical order of the fixes ;)
23:31.22 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: stupid sync().. who wrote this? .. changed to db_sync()
23:33.03 brlcad bleh.. op-bw is vax-specific
23:33.23 brlcad i somehow doubt anyone has an optronics
23:34.04 brlcad hmm
23:34.23 brlcad and if they do, the sync() might actually be needed for that one, /me leaves it alone
23:42.30 *** join/#brlcad mlombardo (n=anonymou@6532233hfc181.tampabay.res.rr.com)
23:45.23 CIA-9 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO src/util/op-bw.c): op-bw had a long run but seeing as it is vax-specific, it is being marked obsolete. the sources are marked for removal at the next minor update (probably by 7.10).

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