irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060908

00:44.51 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:11.52 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051727.dsl.bell.ca)
02:12.27 IriX64 will gentoo install on a vmware virtual machine?
02:15.54 IriX64 ? :)
02:16.44 Maloeran What about installing Gentoo for real? :)
02:17.03 IriX64 blows away my existing installation.
02:17.17 Maloeran Doesn't seem a good idea to run an OS relying that much on compilation in an emulator
02:17.21 Maloeran Just resize it
02:17.36 IriX64 ?
02:17.57 Twingy I use fbsd emulator for all my robotics dev work
02:18.03 Twingy fbsd in parallels
02:18.10 IriX64 ?
02:18.14 Twingy with two displays
02:18.24 Twingy fbsd running fullscreen on left, MacOS on right playing itunes
02:18.41 IriX64 freebsd?
02:18.47 Twingy jah
02:19.31 Twingy get a job
02:20.00 Maloeran Freebsd is quite free, can't take too much disk space either
02:20.08 IriX64 jobs avois me like the plague :)
02:20.18 IriX64 avoid too.
02:20.22 Twingy once gcam is mature I might try my hand at some supplementary income
02:20.40 IriX64 graphics cam? :)
02:20.44 Maloeran It won't be open-source then?
02:20.44 Twingy gnu
02:20.48 Twingy it will be
02:20.53 IriX64 heh
02:20.55 Maloeran Then you'll sell tech support?
02:21.00 Twingy nope
02:21.06 Maloeran Volountary donations?
02:21.17 Twingy that always helps
02:21.23 IriX64 different project?
02:21.29 IriX64 = income?
02:21.36 Twingy stuff I build with it
02:21.46 Maloeran Ah, I see
02:21.56 Twingy hopefully out of aluminum
02:22.23 IriX64 Twingy, ever hear od steel welding?
02:22.28 IriX64 of too.
02:22.48 Twingy I weld steel when I need to
02:22.56 IriX64 you take the acetlyne bottle and replace it with hydrogen.
02:23.13 IriX64 use a steel rod instead of those brazinf rods.
02:23.21 IriX64 brazing too.
02:23.24 Twingy for what purpose?
02:23.42 Twingy you just like jumped off topic
02:23.43 IriX64 high temperature welds.
02:23.46 Twingy ok, great
02:23.50 Twingy now back to aluminum
02:23.52 Twingy :)
02:23.56 IriX64 heh all right.
02:24.05 IriX64 aluminum rods.
02:24.22 Twingy next purchase will be a band saw for cleaning up my castings
02:24.36 Twingy but not until my solar panels are installed
02:24.37 IriX64 grinder does a good job.
02:24.46 Twingy grinder is not designed for that
02:25.00 IriX64 using appropriate attachments it is.
02:25.27 Twingy ok, you can pound a round peg through a square hole, but I prefer the round holes myself
02:25.38 Twingy which is why I will be getting a band saw
02:25.55 IriX64 wouldnt be a square peg or round hole anymore now would it.?
02:26.02 Twingy no
02:26.09 Twingy because I'm implying it works
02:26.24 IriX64 im dense. act accordingly.
02:26.27 Twingy it's just not appropriate
02:26.48 Twingy I know you are, I'm trying to compensate
02:27.00 Twingy and remain benevolent
02:27.05 IriX64 don't over compensate though. :)
02:27.27 IriX64 gotta see a man about a recurrring leak bbiab.
02:27.53 Twingy you should be giving yourself lobotomies
02:28.03 Twingy *shouldn't
02:28.17 Twingy but apparently you think otherwise
05:50.38 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:26.20 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:16.33 ``Erik band saw? for flash? or for the pour channel?
11:44.33 archivist ally doesnt grind well as it fills the grinding wheel
11:45.27 archivist I wear out a dremel a year
12:56.14 ``Erik yeah... but aluminum is very fileable
12:56.20 ``Erik and files can be cleaned with a wire brush
12:56.22 ``Erik *shrug*
12:56.57 ``Erik up around brass and harder, a grinding wheel is awesome, though
12:57.05 archivist hehe depends on the copper content pure is sticky as hell
12:57.24 ``Erik that'ts why I said brass, not copper
12:57.26 ``Erik O:-)
12:57.37 archivist angle grinder heaven
12:57.52 ``Erik part of me misses the days of working in a metal shop
12:58.03 ``Erik then I remember how much I hate physical labor ;)
12:58.13 archivist as a clockmaker I still get dirty
12:58.30 ``Erik cool... maker? mostly repair work on antiques?
12:59.06 archivist make parts for new and antque
12:59.32 ``Erik and I have absolutely no desire to wear a wristwatch or pocketwatch
12:59.34 archivist last job www/archivist.info/pendulum guess the metal
12:59.42 ``Erik too many people care too much about time
12:59.53 ``Erik forbidden
12:59.54 ``Erik 403
13:00.02 archivist hehe replace / with .
13:00.14 ``Erik hurrr
13:00.35 archivist www.archivist.info/pendulum
13:01.13 ``Erik hmmmmm, looks too hard to be platinum?
13:01.23 archivist not hard
13:01.37 ``Erik and the surface looks too shiney to be aluminum
13:01.46 ``Erik but the old surface is too matte to be a steel
13:01.46 archivist never usually seen shiny
13:01.59 ``Erik if I spit on it, would it explod?
13:02.00 ``Erik :D
13:02.07 archivist cast iron
13:02.12 ``Erik really?
13:02.17 ``Erik that's an awful clean piece of stock
13:02.35 archivist yup continously cast
13:02.50 ``Erik full size (and old, well abused) lathe, I see
13:03.19 archivist 1956 worn out
13:03.23 ``Erik the bevel cut... was that ground and polished? or is that from the bit?
13:03.31 ``Erik cuz it's insanely smooth
13:04.02 archivist turned 1 thou feed and then wet and dry then polich
13:04.23 ``Erik ok, so it's been polished, not a straight bit cut :) hehehe
13:04.54 ``Erik and I seeeee.... an irc client, it looks like... and firefox... cooking? pastebin... O:-)
13:05.08 ``Erik btw, mysql sucks, postgresql++
13:05.13 ``Erik imho
13:05.13 Maloeran So you cut this kind of stuff if your garage as well, like Justin? :) Building a pendulum?
13:05.26 archivist its my day job
13:05.49 ``Erik all my experience was during a highschool "metal shop" class
13:05.50 ``Erik heh
13:06.04 ``Erik so I got a good breadth, but not a lot of narrow experience
13:06.30 ``Erik just 'nuff that I know when to pick what machine, and probably won't lose too many fingers, heh
13:06.52 archivist its the boss here that machines his fingers not me
13:07.02 ``Erik well
13:07.21 ``Erik bosses in general are incompetent in attempting the tasks their "subordinates" do
13:07.42 archivist I had to take him to hospital after he gear cut his finger
13:07.54 Maloeran Ouch.
13:08.01 ``Erik I code for a living, my supervisor has a masters in CS, but couldn't code her way out of a wet paper sack
13:08.06 ``Erik just a cut?
13:08.10 archivist .8 module index finger
13:08.27 ``Erik I took a good chunk of one off with twinkies r/c plane, got an ambulance trip, they sewed it on, but it ain't quite right :/
13:08.48 Maloeran Erik, Wendy really has a master in CS?
13:09.01 ``Erik I think so
13:09.04 ``Erik heh
13:09.16 Maloeran Now I really have no esteem left for the formal educational system
13:09.19 ``Erik dixie has a doctorate in cs... and doesn't know the difference between a programming language and a library
13:09.38 ``Erik mike, however, has a doctorate in cs, and is pretty damn brilliant
13:09.56 Maloeran Survice would like me to get a degree for some reason, possibly so they can ask more from the ARL
13:10.12 ``Erik BUT, in the "real world", it's more or less given that the more formal education you've had,t he more you know...
13:10.39 ``Erik if I were to dispute something dixie said, 95% of the 'real world' would tell me to sod off, because I just have a bs, not a phd
13:10.42 ``Erik *shrug*
13:11.02 ``Erik and people without a bs are only useful for flipping burgers, according to 95% of the industry
13:11.04 ``Erik :)
13:11.14 archivist knowing how to use a library is better than a degree sometimes
13:11.24 ``Erik (it's just a hoop to jump through, but *shrug* if you wanna be heard...)
13:11.41 Maloeran Aw Erik :), I suppose I better inform Survice about these new career plans
13:12.08 ``Erik at least with undergrad degrees, you DO get a good breadth of information that focused self-education would completely fail at
13:12.44 ``Erik I thought I knew it all and was a superguru until I got to the upper level undergrad program ;0
13:13.56 Maloeran Useful information, or perhaps just knowing by heart the O notation for all "standard" common algorithms?
13:14.18 ``Erik meh, asymptotic notation is a minor player
13:14.40 ``Erik grocking the theoretical, and being forced to use a wide range of languages from a wide range of paradigm on a wide range of tasks was interesting
13:15.14 ``Erik I still look up and reread some of the classic simple 'problems' to keep my mind semi-limber...
13:15.26 ``Erik <-- points at the halting problem in a safari tab :)
13:16.06 ``Erik and that's exactly why undergrad cs would benefit you.
13:16.08 ``Erik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
13:16.32 Maloeran Oh, that
13:16.52 Maloeran Safari encountered such a situation? :) That's unexpected
13:16.58 ``Erik no, hah
13:17.01 ``Erik the webpage is open in safari
13:17.40 ``Erik fundamental computer science... the theoretical stuff... gets me off :D
13:17.58 ``Erik dfa's, turing machines, p/np...
13:18.04 ``Erik underappreciated.
13:18.16 ``Erik <-- points at his brainfuck interpreter and compiler...
13:18.25 ``Erik that's where academic optimization research should happen
13:18.26 ``Erik not c
13:19.08 Maloeran It's often possible when faced with a though, slow or impratical problem... to just change the problem itself
13:19.19 ``Erik erm...
13:19.20 ``Erik dur
13:19.26 ``Erik that's a core premise of p/np
13:19.50 Maloeran For having read so many papers on ray-tracing, it's something a lot of people seem to forget
13:20.14 ``Erik just cuz 99.999% of people misapply the taught computer sciences does not mean that formal cs is useless, dude
13:20.34 Maloeran *nods* Right ;)
13:20.50 ``Erik seriously, you're smart enough to grok what is said and benefit from it, opposed to the normal 'copy what thte prof says and regurgitate to pass the class' bs
13:22.12 Maloeran Really? I wouldn't have guessed that
13:22.14 ``Erik but I'm old enough that I pick my battles against beaurocracy carefully :)
13:22.28 archivist cos sometimes the prof is at the level of "if you cant do it, teach it" so you need to thoink around what the buggers are on about
13:22.40 ``Erik heh, indeed
13:23.03 ``Erik with my undergrad, there was only one prof that knew the subject.. the rest were regurgitation machines
13:23.18 ``Erik there was on omfg computer scientist, one omfg software engineer, and a pack of fucktards
13:23.25 ``Erik teaching the cirriculum
13:23.41 Maloeran You may as well rely on books then
13:23.49 ``Erik fortunately, the cs was my advisor, and I talked to him a lot, so I got a LOT more out of school than just the courses
13:23.56 ``Erik heh
13:24.04 ``Erik who will tell you the right book?
13:24.13 archivist allways red multiple books on a subject for the same reasons
13:24.17 archivist read
13:24.30 ``Erik I have books on my shelf I would have never seen if it weren't for well informed people suggesting them *shrug*
13:24.48 ``Erik like, in opengl, the average do-it-yourselfer would probably go look at nehe
13:24.59 ``Erik if no one tells them "NO! Bad fucktard! no nehe! go read the redbook!"
13:25.01 ``Erik ...
13:25.53 Maloeran Sure, sure. I'm just not convinced the educational benefits are worth the time investment, but I'll ponder about that later
13:26.10 ``Erik also; getting to sit down with a math teacher and get the REAL scoop on quaternions in a sit tdown session was... invaluable.
13:26.45 archivist I have started a few courses but ended up not finishing as the day job got in the way
13:26.48 ``Erik the educational benefits are not limited to lectures *shrug*
13:27.06 ``Erik don't discount the atmosphere and availability of expertise
13:27.30 ``Erik despite the mountains of bullshit heaped out of the institution
13:27.30 ``Erik :D
13:27.40 archivist open university maths was hard for me but the 1 to 1 tutorials got me through
13:27.47 Maloeran I see.. :)
13:28.43 Maloeran There are _way_ too many papers without any content worth reading out there, it's horrible
13:29.29 ``Erik yeah, most of those papers are the uni saying "you must publish this year" and the person going "oh, uhhhh, ok, lemme crap in a word processor for a week, shove it out the door, and go back to what I was doing"
13:30.18 archivist then a crap reviewer doesnt read and check properly
13:30.21 ``Erik heh, I did one lame publication... and just straight copied most of it into another multi-person paper... *shrug*
13:30.57 ``Erik if you're punished for not producing, but not punished for producing crap... save your time for fun stuff, shove crap out the door
13:31.31 Maloeran Exactly. Most papers coming out of private companies and so on appear equally worthless, it's not limited to the educational system
13:31.48 ``Erik hm
13:31.48 Maloeran I'm really amazed by this need, this urge to publish even when one doesn't have anything to say
13:32.04 ``Erik it's a condition of pointy haired management, I believe
13:32.14 ``Erik not the people writing the papers
13:32.22 Maloeran Most likely so, yes
13:32.26 dtidrow yep
13:32.52 ``Erik of the, um, five publications I have out or in queue for this org... on my own, I wouldn't have called any of them publishable.
13:33.08 ``Erik my old stuff is far more useful, heh
13:33.53 ``Erik but if I don't have publications, I get graded down in my annual review
13:34.26 Maloeran The "new" developments from Siggraph in the field of raytracing that Lee presented were already out there, present in dozen papers pratically copying each other
13:34.53 Maloeran Seriously? Now that is sad
13:34.55 ``Erik heh
13:35.03 ``Erik look over the last 5 yrs of siggraph
13:35.12 ``Erik every year, it's the same damn stuff
13:35.17 ``Erik with minor tweaks
13:35.20 Maloeran Exactly
13:35.46 ``Erik but I enjoyed siggraph a lot... getting to talk to people... the papers are just fluff, talking to people is where it gets cool
13:35.46 Maloeran And apparently, we are going to go over the same old stuff on September 18-20
13:35.58 dtidrow what conference is then?
13:36.08 ``Erik ieee rt06
13:36.21 ``Erik http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html
13:36.47 ``Erik fuck
13:36.51 Maloeran Frankly, I would rather just keep coding than go, but...
13:36.53 Maloeran Hum?
13:36.58 ``Erik I need to do my poster, it was accepted and I haven't really started it, heh
13:37.38 ``Erik ohyeah, I showed the output of your program to some people and they liked it... fyi
13:38.06 ``Erik 510k p/s on a dual 2.0 p4-xeon
13:38.07 Maloeran The current slow and crude pixel dump or the prototype?
13:38.12 ``Erik the pixel dump
13:38.17 Maloeran Gah! Don't show that :)
13:38.19 ``Erik I hit it with pix-png -a
13:38.21 ``Erik heh
13:38.24 ``Erik dude
13:38.28 ``Erik it's visible output
13:38.31 Maloeran Show that : http://www.rayforce.net/lightdemo-ms.avi
13:38.35 ``Erik they were psyched
13:39.01 Maloeran Eh well, as long as you don't say much about the current level of performance of that thing :)
13:39.19 ``Erik I mentioned it, and noted that you had not started optimizing it yet
13:39.24 ``Erik you're ahead of the game, dude, it's all good
13:39.45 ``Erik I mean, I'm running renders at 20k p/s on that machine
13:39.55 ``Erik 510k is definitely an improvement
13:40.01 Maloeran Was it Lee and/or Wendy, or other unspecified people?
13:40.54 ``Erik heh, both the named people
13:41.01 ``Erik I showed it to lee, he showed it to wendy
13:43.30 Maloeran Ahead of the game by one day I suppose :), I needed visible output for today
13:44.06 ``Erik I saw a pixdump, that's visible output *shrug* if anyone asks, I'm gonna say we met that milestone early
13:44.31 ``Erik now an SDL interactive quack type thingie would be awesome, but it's fluff
13:45.09 Maloeran I really could use 2 weeks to complete the model preparation, it's terribly crude
13:45.47 Maloeran Ehehe
13:46.19 ``Erik um, you have a week estimate for regression suite, do you really think that'd take more than a day?
13:46.28 ``Erik and another week for api review
13:46.30 ``Erik ... hurrrr
13:46.48 ``Erik and then 3 weeks for ray bundles, which you probably already have, or are close to
13:46.49 Maloeran The regression suite, that's testing the raytracing for accuracy?
13:46.49 ``Erik ...
13:47.18 dtidrow heh - padding, padding, padding ;-)
13:47.19 ``Erik um, accuracy, performance, functionality
13:47.19 Maloeran Right right, it's all good ; that initial rendering milestone was the tricky one
13:47.23 ``Erik just a nightly script to compile it, run it, annotate a file with some info
13:48.32 dtidrow in lightdemo-ms.avi - did you notice that the tank is actually the mirror image of the real thing?
13:48.39 ``Erik I'd actually recommend two scripts, one very simple skeleton that checks out the repo fresh in like /usr/tmp/rayforce-`date +%Y%m%d%H%M`, runs another script, then rm -rf's
13:49.02 Maloeran Is it, dtidrow? My coordinate system might be... mirrored
13:49.04 ``Erik and the other script to autogen, configure, build, and run the programs
13:49.37 ``Erik hah, it is mirrored
13:49.58 Maloeran Oops :}
13:50.04 dtidrow I wondered why it looked wrong at first :-)
13:50.12 dtidrow s/wrong/odd/
13:51.38 Maloeran The new code doesn't produce a mirrored output though. Curious, still
13:52.51 ``Erik aaanyways, we need to get some good representative models with better use policies... anything released with brlcad is grand to use, and I need to track down 'owners' for a couple models to get them approved for public release... one being a toyota "hilux" pickup truck
13:53.53 Maloeran Right. Or I'll have a nice renaissance frigate soon as I said
13:54.36 ``Erik well, as much as I'd love to get my hands on that model, pay attention to the license...
13:57.03 Maloeran For the frigate? That won't be a problem
13:58.40 ``Erik if'n ya buy it and put i t in the cvs repo, there should probably be an accompanying license or something, to make it clear where it came from, who holds the copyright, and what the license agreement is
13:59.12 ``Erik total cya. :D
13:59.43 Maloeran Yes, we'll have to make it clear. The author is a hobbist who usually just distributes his stuff freely
13:59.47 Maloeran Have fun with that poster :)
14:00.03 ``Erik cya == "cover your ass"
14:00.15 Maloeran Ohh :)
14:00.24 dtidrow ``Erik: I used to work at TACOM years ago, so I'm rather familiar with tanks :-)
14:00.47 dtidrow bbl - got a squacky baby to deal with...
14:01.12 ``Erik nifty, I'm rdecomm, arl/slad/bs
14:09.29 dtidrow ``Erik: so yu work up at Aberdeen with lee and that crowd?
14:10.13 ``Erik 'fraid so
14:11.09 ``Erik I'm sorta kinda in the flux of going back to lee's team at the moment... everyone but the branch chief acknowleged that I changed teams back to acst like six months ago, heh
14:11.31 dtidrow heh
14:12.13 ``Erik the limbo was... somewhat pleasant :) but now I'm back to workin' *sigh*
14:12.38 dtidrow lol
14:18.36 *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pool-141-157-79-217.balt.east.verizon.net)
14:59.02 archivist thinking about my pendulum, I want 3d cad to calc the CG at different temperatures when filled with mercury (so needs to know about contained liquids)
14:59.57 archivist I had to draw multiple versions in solidworks to get around it
15:05.57 ``Erik that'd be a fluid dynamics problem to solve the shape of the fluid...
15:06.11 ``Erik once you have the shape and densities, the cg is fairly easy
15:06.59 ``Erik <-- been itching to do fem/cfd type code in brlcad, but has no time just yet
15:09.08 archivist but the shape of the container is changing with temp so "needs" to be part of 3d system (little need as far as I can see in the real world) as compensation is done in software these days
15:10.27 archivist just that we deal with people building clocks in the old fashioned way
15:21.35 *** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
15:31.07 *** join/#brlcad clock___ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
15:47.44 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
18:04.22 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-2.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:41.21 *** join/#brlcad archivist_ashby (n=archivis@host213-123-228-55.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
21:03.31 Maloeran This is weird. I never noticed before that the m1 model has "polygons" where the 3 points are colinear, that causes some nasty artefacts in the new code
21:11.11 dtidrow_work all three colinear?
21:11.44 dtidrow_work oh, duh - thinking of something else
21:12.03 dtidrow_work degenerate tris to make longer strips, perhaps?
21:13.06 Maloeran Perhaps so, I suppose I'll have to strip them out for raytracing
21:55.19 ``Erik why?
21:58.39 Maloeran My intersection test can't handle triangles with an area of 0.0, and logically, no rays is ever going to hit them anyway
22:20.34 ``Erik ah, div by zero error?
22:24.46 Maloeran More like the preparation of such triangles, prior to raytracing, outputting a few NaNs
22:37.16 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.