| 00:24.20 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:10.52 | *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 02:15.23 | danfalck | Twingy: you around? |
| 02:30.53 | Twingy | yes |
| 02:30.55 | Twingy | sec |
| 02:31.08 | danfalck | hi |
| 02:31.18 | danfalck | how do you want bugs reported? |
| 02:31.30 | danfalck | I just opened a |
| 02:31.33 | danfalck | new tool |
| 02:31.38 | danfalck | and seg faulted |
| 02:32.50 | danfalck | after inserting a line |
| 02:34.40 | Twingy | for now I'll want you to report directly to me since these are minor and can be quickly fixed |
| 02:34.54 | Twingy | I have made a number of updates over the last 2 days, let me get you the latest, got time? |
| 02:35.06 | danfalck | email or irc? |
| 02:35.09 | Twingy | web |
| 02:35.20 | Twingy | sec |
| 02:35.28 | danfalck | sure |
| 02:35.45 | danfalck | give me the web address this time, email is on another machine |
| 02:36.19 | Twingy | sec |
| 02:36.33 | Twingy | also |
| 02:36.38 | Twingy | tell me what your download rate is |
| 02:36.51 | danfalck | dsl, I'm not sure |
| 02:36.55 | Twingy | no |
| 02:36.57 | Twingy | from me |
| 02:37.00 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:37.26 | danfalck | is the 'download' url live now on your website? |
| 02:38.53 | Twingy | no |
| 02:39.02 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:39.56 | Twingy | I made a raptor motor mount with gcam today |
| 02:40.03 | danfalck | cool |
| 02:40.12 | danfalck | on the Taig? |
| 02:40.16 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:40.21 | Twingy | at work |
| 02:40.43 | danfalck | raptor? |
| 02:40.57 | Twingy | a heli |
| 02:41.03 | danfalck | oh |
| 02:41.25 | Twingy | done downloading? |
| 02:41.37 | danfalck | no, give me the url |
| 02:43.31 | Twingy | got the /msg ? |
| 02:45.38 | Twingy | yes no? |
| 02:45.44 | danfalck | got it |
| 02:45.53 | danfalck | 33-40 KB/s |
| 02:46.00 | Twingy | hum |
| 02:46.11 | danfalck | I'm on a DSL |
| 02:46.13 | Twingy | should be higher |
| 02:46.20 | Twingy | I have 96kB upstream |
| 02:46.39 | danfalck | ok, going to untar the file, compile, and try it out. |
| 02:46.39 | Twingy | anyway, compile and run |
| 02:46.41 | danfalck | thanks |
| 02:46.50 | Twingy | yah, then we'll step through your first bug |
| 02:47.43 | Twingy | I wonder if I should video tape the solar installation |
| 02:50.44 | danfalck | in the middle of 'make' |
| 02:50.49 | Twingy | k |
| 02:51.00 | Twingy | I'll fire mine up and we'll move through the same steps together |
| 02:51.38 | danfalck | once things are the way that you want them, can I make a binary that others using Ubuntu 6.10 could run? |
| 02:51.40 | Twingy | btw, I'm thinking about offer my mill for remote use for a small fee |
| 02:51.56 | Twingy | sure, that would be helpful |
| 02:52.16 | danfalck | which files would be transferable? the gcam bin? |
| 02:52.25 | Twingy | either that or the gcode |
| 02:52.34 | Twingy | or dxf |
| 02:52.51 | danfalck | I just know that there are a lot of guys using Ubuntu Dapper for EMC right now |
| 02:53.00 | Twingy | k |
| 02:53.08 | Twingy | I'm still using turbocnc |
| 02:53.26 | danfalck | you ought to try out emc |
| 02:53.42 | danfalck | you would probably really get into ti |
| 02:53.43 | danfalck | it |
| 02:53.47 | Twingy | why sort of capability does it give me that turbocnc doesn't already? |
| 02:53.53 | danfalck | a lot \ |
| 02:53.54 | Twingy | *what |
| 02:54.03 | danfalck | cutter comp for one |
| 02:54.08 | Twingy | explain |
| 02:54.40 | danfalck | you can write a tool path in gcode that uses a nominal center line for a particular diameter of tool |
| 02:54.49 | danfalck | if you use a different sized tool |
| 02:55.04 | danfalck | you can put the diameter of the tool in a table |
| 02:55.17 | danfalck | and the control will compensate and cut the path correctly |
| 02:55.25 | Twingy | gcam does that... |
| 02:55.48 | Twingy | and turbocnc does that as well |
| 02:55.53 | Twingy | so either way I'm covered |
| 02:56.17 | danfalck | sorry, didn't know they had it yet |
| 02:56.22 | danfalck | do you enter the diameter values for you end mills? |
| 02:56.28 | Twingy | I don't want to use emc just because it looks like a fancy gui based program |
| 02:56.37 | Twingy | yes, that's the "Tool" block |
| 02:56.42 | Twingy | when you create a project |
| 02:56.48 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:57.06 | Twingy | eventually I'll add a tab for it |
| 02:57.20 | Twingy | for tool changing and feed over-ride |
| 02:57.22 | danfalck | I used emc in 1999 when the gui wasn't so good |
| 02:57.29 | danfalck | and it worked very well then |
| 02:57.40 | Twingy | I don't need a fancy g-code processor |
| 02:57.53 | danfalck | ran 3 machines with it and made a lot of money doing engraving and milling |
| 02:57.53 | Twingy | something that lets me jog, control velocity, acceleration, and interprets g-code |
| 02:58.07 | danfalck | all the gui stuff has been added on in the last 4 years. |
| 02:58.10 | Twingy | 90% of turbocnc I don't use |
| 02:58.21 | Twingy | and probly 95% of emc I wouldn't use |
| 02:58.25 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:58.43 | danfalck | I plan on redoing my Centroid control with emc in the future |
| 02:58.45 | Twingy | I restrict myself to the very fundamental g-codes |
| 02:58.58 | Twingy | that way it's guaranteed to work everywhere |
| 02:59.00 | danfalck | as well as some very large machines at work- kitamura mills |
| 02:59.12 | danfalck | emc has plc built in |
| 02:59.15 | Twingy | even on a high school kids g-code processor that only does a few commands |
| 02:59.21 | danfalck | tool changers can be implemented |
| 03:00.02 | Twingy | that's all g-code |
| 03:00.09 | Twingy | supported by turbocnc... |
| 03:00.12 | danfalck | emc can control hexapods |
| 03:00.23 | danfalck | rotary axis |
| 03:00.30 | Twingy | turbocnc can do rotary... |
| 03:00.33 | danfalck | you name it, it can be done |
| 03:00.50 | Twingy | I gather I'll really only care about emc when I buy a $100k+ machine |
| 03:00.54 | Twingy | that has all the bells and whistles |
| 03:01.03 | danfalck | it can output to true servoes using DA cards |
| 03:01.11 | danfalck | well, maybe. |
| 03:01.20 | Twingy | k, let's move into gcam, getting late |
| 03:01.26 | danfalck | you might someday get really interested in it |
| 03:01.29 | danfalck | ok |
| 03:01.37 | danfalck | still in 'make' stage |
| 03:01.39 | danfalck | hm |
| 03:01.44 | Twingy | whu? |
| 03:01.48 | Twingy | you on a 386? |
| 03:01.52 | danfalck | this one's taking longer than I remember |
| 03:01.53 | danfalck | no |
| 03:01.57 | danfalck | 1.0 ghz amd |
| 03:02.04 | Twingy | should compile in 10 seconds |
| 03:02.35 | danfalck | I see an error about missing automake-1.7 something |
| 03:02.45 | danfalck | i'll kill it and try again |
| 03:02.46 | Twingy | kill autom4te.cache |
| 03:02.56 | Twingy | and autoreconf -vis && ./configure |
| 03:03.19 | danfalck | ok |
| 03:03.37 | danfalck | rm the whole directory? |
| 03:03.46 | danfalck | autom4.... |
| 03:04.33 | Twingy | rm -rf autom4te.cache |
| 03:06.23 | Twingy | I'm running gcam/turbocnc on a PIII-450 w/ 256MB at work |
| 03:06.32 | Twingy | runs great |
| 03:07.13 | danfalck | .deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.5e+03 s in the future |
| 03:07.15 | Twingy | using an AMD semrpon 1.4GHz in the garage |
| 03:07.21 | danfalck | running into warnings |
| 03:07.26 | danfalck | during make |
| 03:07.27 | Twingy | don't worry about warning |
| 03:09.06 | danfalck | yeh this is weird. it's taking way too long compared to the last one |
| 03:09.30 | Twingy | no problems here... |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | /bin/sh /home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/missing --run automake-1.7 --gnu libgcode/Makefile |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | cd .. && /bin/sh ./config.status libgcode/Makefile depfiles |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | config.status: creating libgcode/Makefile |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | config.status: executing depfiles commands |
| 03:09.36 | danfalck | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:09.36 | danfalck | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:09.38 | danfalck | make[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.3e+03 s in the future |
| 03:09.49 | Twingy | just sitting there? |
| 03:09.55 | Twingy | do this |
| 03:09.57 | Twingy | rm -rf .deps |
| 03:10.01 | danfalck | looks like it's in a loop |
| 03:10.04 | danfalck | ok will do |
| 03:10.19 | danfalck | did it |
| 03:10.23 | danfalck | what next/ |
| 03:10.26 | danfalck | ? |
| 03:10.39 | Twingy | 24s to compile on AMD64 2.2Ghz over nfs |
| 03:10.45 | danfalck | throw away the cache directory |
| 03:10.45 | Twingy | autoreconf -vis |
| 03:10.49 | Twingy | yea |
| 03:10.56 | Twingy | ./configure |
| 03:10.57 | Twingy | make |
| 03:14.27 | Twingy | working? |
| 03:14.36 | danfalck | trying something |
| 03:21.45 | danfalck | sorry, still problems |
| 03:21.56 | danfalck | tried automake 1.8 |
| 03:22.01 | danfalck | and got errors |
| 03:22.04 | danfalck | went back to 1.7 |
| 03:22.10 | danfalck | different errors |
| 03:23.12 | Twingy | k |
| 03:23.29 | Twingy | I'm using 1.9.6 |
| 03:23.34 | Twingy | you should get 1.9 automake |
| 03:23.39 | danfalck | ok will do |
| 03:23.49 | Twingy | and autoconf 259 |
| 03:24.24 | danfalck | got 2.59 |
| 03:24.34 | danfalck | doing 1.9 now |
| 03:24.56 | Twingy | k |
| 03:25.13 | danfalck | using synaptic. a lot of times it's not very up to date and I have to go get the source |
| 03:25.25 | danfalck | we'll see how it does |
| 03:26.20 | Twingy | k, keep me posted |
| 03:26.37 | danfalck | ok. I'll work through it and get back with you tommorrow |
| 03:27.12 | Twingy | m'kay... |
| 03:31.34 | danfalck | can make get screwed up with the time that the file was created? |
| 03:31.46 | danfalck | it keeps saying the file was created in the future |
| 03:31.54 | danfalck | you're on the east coast right? |
| 03:32.09 | danfalck | g directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:32.09 | danfalck | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:32.10 | danfalck | make[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 1.9e+03 s in the future |
| 03:33.16 | Maloeran | touch the file(s) or modify it |
| 03:33.44 | danfalck | thanks |
| 03:39.05 | danfalck | that was it |
| 03:39.12 | danfalck | timestamp problem |
| 03:39.36 | danfalck | compiled and gcam works now |
| 03:45.05 | Twingy | k |
| 03:45.09 | Twingy | ready to step through? |
| 03:45.19 | danfalck | yes I've been playing with it |
| 03:45.27 | danfalck | removing lines doesn't crash it now |
| 03:46.39 | danfalck | do you want to do the private msg thing for a short tutorial? |
| 03:46.52 | danfalck | or does it matter here? |
| 03:47.14 | Twingy | here is fine |
| 03:47.30 | danfalck | ok, I start by creating a new project |
| 03:47.33 | Twingy | yep |
| 03:47.36 | danfalck | insert a sketch |
| 03:47.42 | Twingy | after a tool |
| 03:47.50 | danfalck | ok after the tool |
| 03:47.56 | danfalck | yep got it |
| 03:48.01 | Twingy | otherwise the sketch doesn't know what tool |
| 03:48.08 | danfalck | then start inserting lines and arcs |
| 03:48.13 | Twingy | yes |
| 03:48.28 | danfalck | whoops, just seg faulted |
| 03:48.31 | Twingy | insert lines and arcs into the extrusion to give it depth |
| 03:48.39 | Twingy | can you repeat? |
| 03:48.54 | danfalck | ok, I inserted a tool |
| 03:48.59 | danfalck | inserted sketch |
| 03:49.05 | danfalck | inserted 8 lines |
| 03:49.05 | Twingy | a second tool? |
| 03:49.11 | danfalck | removed 8 lines |
| 03:49.19 | danfalck | moved cursor up to sketch |
| 03:49.31 | danfalck | tried to insert another line and it seg faulted |
| 03:49.37 | Twingy | testing |
| 03:49.37 | danfalck | I will open it again |
| 03:49.57 | danfalck | creating project |
| 03:50.06 | danfalck | tool change is in there automatically |
| 03:50.15 | danfalck | inserting sketch |
| 03:50.43 | Twingy | I did insert sketch, insert 8 lines, remove 8 lines, remove sketch, no crash |
| 03:50.44 | danfalck | insert line |
| 03:50.49 | danfalck | insert line |
| 03:50.53 | danfalck | removed them both |
| 03:50.58 | danfalck | tried to insert line |
| 03:51.00 | danfalck | crash |
| 03:51.08 | Twingy | what was selected when inserting the line |
| 03:51.21 | danfalck | I'll try again |
| 03:51.35 | danfalck | sorry didn't catch what was selected |
| 03:51.41 | danfalck | will watch more carefully |
| 03:52.51 | danfalck | ok, I think I know what happened |
| 03:53.03 | danfalck | nothing was selected when I tried to insert the line |
| 03:53.09 | danfalck | let me try again |
| 03:53.12 | Twingy | k |
| 03:53.21 | danfalck | yes that's it |
| 03:53.34 | danfalck | if nothing is selected and you try to insert it crashes |
| 03:53.39 | Maloeran | You should run it in gdb to have a backtrace at least |
| 03:53.51 | Twingy | yep |
| 03:53.53 | Twingy | just noticed that |
| 03:54.00 | Twingy | I'll fix that |
| 03:54.06 | danfalck | ok |
| 03:54.12 | Twingy | something should always be selected |
| 03:54.13 | danfalck | I'll be more careful now |
| 03:54.26 | Twingy | remove needs to select something after it removes |
| 03:55.37 | danfalck | how about adding this: when completing a line segment, instead of having to click on the Update parameters button, let 'return' also update the line |
| 03:56.01 | danfalck | not bad, but convenient |
| 03:56.04 | Twingy | yea, bunch more gui code |
| 03:56.12 | Twingy | I'd rather get rid of the button |
| 03:56.19 | Twingy | and make each widget event update |
| 03:56.20 | danfalck | yep |
| 03:56.25 | Twingy | but that doubles gui code |
| 03:57.19 | Twingy | here's something for you to try |
| 03:57.25 | Twingy | make a bowl |
| 03:57.35 | danfalck | ok, can I load the sample |
| 03:57.39 | Twingy | no |
| 03:57.46 | danfalck | darn |
| 03:57.48 | Twingy | see if you can figure it out |
| 03:58.40 | Maloeran | Do you provide a 3d view of the result? |
| 03:59.00 | Twingy | yes |
| 03:59.09 | Maloeran | *nods* Nice |
| 03:59.21 | danfalck | I can get top and side views, but haven't found the iso view |
| 03:59.32 | Twingy | if you click on the sketch |
| 03:59.41 | Twingy | use the right mouse button to rotate |
| 03:59.58 | Twingy | you'll see it in 3d if you have extrusions applied |
| 04:00.06 | danfalck | ok now I see it |
| 04:00.24 | Twingy | Render is currently broken |
| 04:00.33 | Twingy | so it'll give you wrong results |
| 04:02.16 | Twingy | once bore, bolt holes, and bezier get in there it should prove to be quite powerful |
| 04:05.06 | Twingy | ok, I think I can fix remove now |
| 04:05.54 | danfalck | ok, had to cheat , but I see how you did the bowl.... |
| 04:06.06 | danfalck | arc inserted after extrusion |
| 04:06.17 | danfalck | then arc inserted below that |
| 04:07.00 | danfalck | i like the extrusion resolution feature |
| 04:08.17 | Twingy | good |
| 04:08.44 | Twingy | I think people will find that modeling with extrusions is quite powerful |
| 04:09.25 | danfalck | that is very handy |
| 04:09.49 | Twingy | tried generating g-code yet? |
| 04:10.09 | danfalck | I have previously, with no problem |
| 04:10.14 | Twingy | k |
| 04:10.16 | danfalck | let me do it with this bowl |
| 04:10.49 | Twingy | oh heh, I forgot to fix the bowl |
| 04:11.21 | danfalck | looks ok |
| 04:11.39 | Twingy | it's totally wrong |
| 04:11.46 | Twingy | it doesn't look like a bowl to me |
| 04:11.54 | danfalck | just need to have some way of setting up safety blocks and other machine specific code |
| 04:12.04 | Maloeran | Going to build your own aluminium bowls anytime soon? :) |
| 04:12.07 | danfalck | I have a bowl here : ) |
| 04:12.08 | Twingy | safety blocks? |
| 04:12.22 | danfalck | G90 G17 G49 etc... |
| 04:12.29 | Twingy | for what purpose |
| 04:12.33 | danfalck | code that resets machine, just in case.... |
| 04:13.05 | danfalck | say you ran you machine in MDI mode, while setting up the part and you left something dangling out there such as a G91 incrementa command |
| 04:13.16 | danfalck | it could save you from a physical crash |
| 04:13.30 | danfalck | incremental / incrementa |
| 04:13.37 | Twingy | I don't do incremental |
| 04:13.43 | Twingy | and that's what the render is for |
| 04:13.45 | Twingy | if you see something bogus |
| 04:13.50 | Twingy | you fix it before getting to the machine |
| 04:13.59 | Twingy | if you see your end mill crashing 5 feet below the table |
| 04:14.01 | Twingy | you don't run it |
| 04:14.01 | danfalck | I don't either , but being able to taylor the code to the machine is good practice in industry |
| 04:14.15 | Twingy | there is a "Code" block |
| 04:14.21 | Twingy | I don't have it exposed right now |
| 04:14.27 | danfalck | ok |
| 04:14.33 | Twingy | you can insert those at your own risk |
| 04:14.55 | danfalck | to me a good text editor for the g-code is worth a lot |
| 04:14.58 | Twingy | what are the params on your extrusion arc |
| 04:15.00 | Twingy | for the bowl |
| 04:15.28 | danfalck | extrusion arc is at X 0, Y0 |
| 04:15.32 | danfalck | Radius .5 |
| 04:15.40 | danfalck | start angle 180 |
| 04:15.45 | danfalck | sweep -90 |
| 04:15.58 | Twingy | eh |
| 04:16.04 | danfalck | other arc is at position x 1 y 1 |
| 04:16.06 | Twingy | upside down bowl? |
| 04:16.09 | danfalck | radius |
| 04:16.11 | danfalck | yep |
| 04:16.18 | Twingy | oh heh |
| 04:16.22 | danfalck | I was just thrashing around |
| 04:16.23 | Twingy | that should be: |
| 04:16.32 | danfalck | it's my upside down cnc router |
| 04:16.47 | danfalck | tipped the bowl over |
| 04:16.59 | Twingy | 0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90 |
| 04:17.04 | Twingy | if you want the fixed bowl |
| 04:17.13 | danfalck | that fixed it ;) |
| 04:17.23 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:17.31 | Twingy | I want to build a larger mill in gcam |
| 04:17.35 | Twingy | using my taig |
| 04:17.38 | Twingy | 2x the size |
| 04:17.56 | danfalck | I could sell you mine , but shipping would be expensive |
| 04:17.59 | Twingy | broken up in many parts |
| 04:18.10 | Twingy | no, I want people making their own mills |
| 04:18.14 | Twingy | start with a taig |
| 04:18.20 | Twingy | and build a super precise monster mill |
| 04:18.41 | danfalck | I used to really be into that - melting my own aluminum , making the lathe |
| 04:19.03 | danfalck | but then people wanted me to make other parts for them for money |
| 04:19.05 | Twingy | I need to buy magnesium |
| 04:19.23 | Twingy | I haven't gotten to the part where people will pay me for parts yet |
| 04:19.38 | Twingy | I would like to do that in spare time |
| 04:20.23 | Twingy | in the mean time I'll try and sell some rocket nozzles |
| 04:21.07 | danfalck | the purchase and modification of the tools/toys can be addictive |
| 04:21.14 | danfalck | my garage is full of them |
| 04:21.21 | Twingy | that's good so long as it serves a utility |
| 04:21.46 | Twingy | I am missing 2 tools |
| 04:21.56 | Twingy | a 24" or 36" lathe, and a band saw |
| 04:22.14 | Twingy | the band saw I can afford relatively soon |
| 04:22.41 | danfalck | ok turned the bowl right side up |
| 04:22.53 | Twingy | I am going to buy a sliding table for my 3/4 HP drill press and use it to plane with a 1/2" end mill |
| 04:23.03 | Maloeran | You two need to move next to each other ;), or in a neighbourhood of aluminium melters |
| 04:23.11 | danfalck | extrusion arc is now: X .5 Y 0 R .5 Start angle 270 Sweep 90 |
| 04:23.28 | Twingy | 0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90 |
| 04:23.31 | Twingy | works too |
| 04:24.17 | Twingy | I'm not going to buy a 1 ton mill just for planing |
| 04:24.21 | danfalck | Twingy: are you a brlcad developer? |
| 04:24.25 | Twingy | err 1/2 ton mill |
| 04:24.31 | Twingy | danfalck, used to be |
| 04:24.42 | Twingy | I do robots now |
| 04:24.47 | danfalck | cool |
| 04:25.03 | danfalck | do you program for a living? |
| 04:25.18 | Twingy | used to, now it's only half of what I do |
| 04:25.31 | danfalck | do you do robotics at work? |
| 04:25.35 | Twingy | yah |
| 04:25.38 | danfalck | nice |
| 04:25.50 | danfalck | automation for industry? |
| 04:26.11 | Twingy | surveillance type stuff |
| 04:26.23 | Maloeran | Or autonomous shooting targets on wheels, I thought |
| 04:26.39 | danfalck | ok |
| 04:26.40 | Twingy | that too |
| 04:27.17 | Twingy | whatever is fun |
| 04:27.20 | danfalck | I do tooling design and some machine design |
| 04:27.33 | Twingy | when this stuff gets boring in a few years I'll move into biology or chem |
| 04:27.50 | danfalck | robotics boring? |
| 04:27.53 | danfalck | never |
| 04:28.16 | Twingy | I don't like to stick in a field once I hit the point of diminish returns |
| 04:28.31 | Twingy | things become too predictable |
| 04:28.47 | Twingy | when I wake up and know what I'll be doing 1 year from now it's time to find a new job |
| 04:30.03 | Twingy | the only difficult part with that is having to 'prove' yourself to the new people you work with |
| 04:30.24 | Twingy | people sorta look at you like you're useless for the first few weeks |
| 04:30.38 | Twingy | something to expect when moving around alot |
| 04:30.39 | Maloeran | No pronounced interest in raytracing hardware design yet? ;) Lee seemed interested, and Survice surprisingly offered backing on this crazy project |
| 04:31.09 | Twingy | Maloeran, I am interested in lots of things, ray-tracing hardware included, but list my interested in order of priority |
| 04:31.34 | Maloeran | Right, and I guess it isn't too close to the top |
| 04:31.36 | Twingy | ray-tracing is a communications medium, it puts pixels on the screen |
| 04:31.50 | Twingy | I know what I'll be doing in 5 years from now if I continue with ray-tracing |
| 04:31.59 | Twingy | not interested in that rat-race |
| 04:32.10 | danfalck | Twingy: could I try to DCC a file to you? (not sure if I can get through my network) |
| 04:32.13 | Twingy | bottom line is it puts colored pixels on my screen |
| 04:32.15 | danfalck | screenshot |
| 04:32.23 | Twingy | post it on a web server |
| 04:32.27 | danfalck | ok |
| 04:33.35 | Twingy | Maloeran, I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to work |
| 04:33.50 | Twingy | Maloeran, I have no real need for ray-tracing for my personal objectives atm |
| 04:34.22 | Twingy | I do have a need to build parts though |
| 04:34.29 | Twingy | so now I do that at work |
| 04:34.57 | Twingy | I may get to a point where I need to do fluid simulations and hop over to CISD for a while |
| 04:35.31 | Maloeran | And no need to do radar signatures or anything else that would involve ray-tracing? ;) All right, understood |
| 04:35.44 | Twingy | not at the moment, no |
| 04:36.19 | Twingy | bottom line is it doesn't accomplish anything I want done right now |
| 04:38.00 | Twingy | I think remove is fixed, testing |
| 04:38.10 | Maloeran | The way this is going, the most interested people are Kutulu and a norwegian programmer. I suppose that could work even on the internet |
| 04:38.27 | Twingy | of course it can |
| 04:38.43 | Twingy | remember, when you are done your ray-tracing phase, I want to work with you on a project |
| 04:39.29 | Maloeran | Right. That's something I'm quite interested to as well |
| 04:39.43 | Maloeran | I just never explored hardware design before so it has a certain appeal |
| 04:41.24 | Twingy | take notes on the epistemological patterns you recognize during the next several years |
| 04:41.40 | Twingy | hardware is part 2 of the project |
| 04:42.37 | danfalck | Twingy: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/dan's_screenshot_092806.png |
| 04:42.45 | danfalck | simple, but ther it is |
| 04:42.55 | danfalck | there |
| 04:43.37 | Twingy | little outside your workspace no? |
| 04:44.09 | danfalck | yep a little large |
| 04:44.13 | danfalck | sorry |
| 04:44.40 | Twingy | I'll fix that |
| 04:44.55 | Twingy | after I get preferences menu working |
| 04:50.06 | Twingy | tomorrow I hope to have bolt holes done |
| 04:51.11 | danfalck | I need to do some reading. I'll chat with you later. thanks |
| 04:51.21 | Twingy | k, thank you |
| 04:55.52 | Twingy | remove is fixed |
| 05:20.17 | danfalck | good night |
| 09:58.10 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 20:13.30 | *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:20.47 | archivist | a bit like caches, get it wrong and they slow you down |
| 21:22.08 | Maloeran | Or drive you into subtle and difficult to track memory corruption somewhere |
| 21:24.28 | archivist | I did a map program years ago in turbo pascal, cached the map in blocks, 64 needed accross the page but could only fit 63 in memory so EVERY block/line was a cache fail |
| 21:25.44 | Maloeran | Mmhm, sounds like fun too |
| 21:27.52 | archivist | one learns to grab enough space after that, re organising the map data didnt help either |
| 21:28.49 | archivist | this is way back in 80286 days or maybe earlier |
| 21:29.54 | Maloeran | Neat. I never really knew anything prior to 80386 |
| 21:31.23 | archivist | it drew a circular profile of a section of the map to check line of sight for radio work |
| 21:33.25 | Maloeran | May I ask if you are involved in brl-cad or an user of the software? |
| 21:34.38 | archivist | will be a user when a few things get done |
| 21:35.47 | archivist | eg when its a solidworks killer and as easy to use |
| 22:10.29 | Maloeran | Erik, seems a full-featured memory manager on top of malloc for medium-large chunks improves performance even on Linux |
| 22:11.07 | Maloeran | I expect the gain to be much more dramatic on platforms with an overzealous free() like OSX |
| 22:15.06 | Maloeran | How portable are brk()/sbrk()? It's still relying on malloc() under the hood |
| 22:54.26 | Twingy | went up on the roof twice today, the anchor bolt and chain are up and the pvc conduits are cut |
| 22:58.26 | Twingy | two of the purchases I made today were $6.66 and $11.11 |
| 23:02.16 | Twingy | not gonna go for -10,000? |
| 23:02.28 | Maloeran | I could try but I don't think they'll let me :) |
| 23:02.39 | Twingy | do you get an overdraft charge? |
| 23:03.00 | Maloeran | Unsure what overdraft means, but there are interests of course |
| 23:03.05 | Twingy | bank of america charges you $30 if you go below $0.00 |
| 23:03.16 | Twingy | for every day I think |
| 23:03.39 | ``Erik | mal: performance gain by customizing memory management is a classic angle... |
| 23:03.40 | Maloeran | Eh no, I can go down to -5000CAD without problems but interests to pay |
| 23:04.06 | Maloeran | I'm aware of that for tiny packed chunks, Erik, I didn't think I could gain anything from managing huge chunks of variable and random sizes |
| 23:04.35 | ``Erik | your pattern is extremely rapid... and in general, malloc and free are not cheap operations :) |
| 23:05.34 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I gained about 7% of preparation time on Linux. That'll probably be in the hundred percents on the OSX malloc thing |
| 23:08.51 | Maloeran | I don't suppose it would be acceptable for me to play with brk()/sbrk() directly, unfortunate |
| 23:51.40 | ``Erik | sbrk and brk are, uh, old school... modern implementations are hacks on normal malloc... |
| 23:53.05 | Maloeran | Old school? It's either growing the heap or using mmap, not many other ways to allocate memory |
| 23:53.48 | ``Erik | sbrk and brk are assuming the notions of segment based memory |
| 23:53.54 | ``Erik | we all use paged memory these days... |
| 23:54.05 | ``Erik | things are different, dude... linux will catch up some day ;) |
| 23:54.45 | ``Erik | (bear in mind... linux is mostly designed around 80's low end ideology) |
| 23:55.14 | Maloeran | Linearly growing the address space by brk() is usually quite reasonable, for most needs |
| 23:56.04 | ``Erik | growing address space is reasonable... linearly via brk() symantics? that's, uh... obsolete. |
| 23:56.57 | Maloeran | Otherwise, you can allocate pages by mmap() wherever you want in the address space, I suppose that can be handy to avoid synchronisation when you got many cores around |
| 23:58.10 | ``Erik | dude... mmu's changed a lot. :( |
| 23:58.51 | Maloeran | Maybe I'm outdated, the last time I wrote some kind of OS was on a 486 |
| 23:59.11 | Maloeran | I read Linux memory manager later on, but you claim that's outdated too |
| 23:59.31 | ``Erik | 486 had a real mmu and could do full-on paged access |
| 23:59.52 | Maloeran | Indeed |
