| 00:02.17 | ``Erik | simh doesn't seem to support the old 704 :/ |
| 00:06.51 | ``Erik | huh, ancient sumer used base 6 math, and that's why our arbitrary day time crap is in multiples of 6 (60, 24) |
| 00:10.23 | ``Erik | http://www.marginalpeople.com/base%20six.html |
| 00:11.17 | ``Erik | DAMN simpsons for making me learn!!! |
| 00:17.20 | *** join/#brlcad buttdude (n=cfd26a68@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:19.33 | louipc | did they only have six fingers or something? |
| 00:22.12 | ``Erik | heh, I think they did it all on one hand |
| 00:22.14 | ``Erik | with no concept of 0 |
| 00:22.23 | ``Erik | so closed fist is 1, ... |
| 00:22.35 | ``Erik | <-- points at the url |
| 00:23.07 | ``Erik | was watching simpsons, skinner made a comment about finally being able to buy math books without base six stuff... so I had to g00gle |
| 00:23.09 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:01.14 | brlcad | heh, i think i remember that episode |
| 01:01.28 | brlcad | is that the cromulent one? |
| 01:08.16 | ``Erik | no, the one where the dogs gonna die from a twisted stomach |
| 01:23.33 | brlcad | ahh yeah |
| 02:02.20 | Maloeran | ``Erik, I really thought they used a base of 12 |
| 02:05.43 | *** join/#brlcad Rangar (n=dave@203.118.156.252) | |
| 02:06.46 | Maloeran | Woah, what are you doing here Hal? :) |
| 02:07.01 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 02:07.34 | Rangar | Mal; I'm here to whip you guys in to shape ;) |
| 02:08.01 | ``Erik | I d'no if this is the right place for that kinda weirdassed kink |
| 02:08.06 | ``Erik | also; none of us are sheep. |
| 02:08.48 | Rangar | hahaha |
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| 15:48.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add another X11 test to verify that the X11 library is actually linking in. |
| 15:57.54 | brlcad | that's not evil! |
| 16:13.05 | brlcad | hm.. that's odd -- the test fails, but _XNewModifiermap is in /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a |
| 16:19.19 | ``Erik | on some machines, xmkmf goes funky so it doesn't build the X_LIBS variable right |
| 16:19.31 | ``Erik | rhel64 is a prime example |
| 16:20.08 | brlcad | i'm not complaining, as I'd been trying to find an x11 test that correctly fails on os x |
| 16:20.47 | brlcad | the base system provides headers and stub libs that effectively all work .. except at run-time, any X11 call causes a crash |
| 16:21.07 | brlcad | I hunted/tested dozens |
| 16:21.16 | ``Erik | urm, "a crash"? |
| 16:21.34 | brlcad | yeah, app would crash on the x11 call |
| 16:21.54 | ``Erik | erm, does it matter if X11.app is running? |
| 16:22.18 | brlcad | that's what I mean, a system that doesn't have x11.app (it's not installed by default on some/most/new systems) |
| 16:22.32 | brlcad | but it does have the headers and libs so everything links |
| 16:22.38 | ``Erik | ah |
| 16:22.54 | brlcad | what's odd is that your link test for _XNewModifiermap fails |
| 16:23.11 | ``Erik | could always test if uname is darwin and hunt for X11.app *shrug* |
| 16:23.15 | brlcad | but it actually is in the library, at least I see it in nm |
| 16:24.35 | brlcad | i was entirely trying to avoid a system-specific test |
| 16:24.35 | ``Erik | hm, does the X_LIBS line look decent? |
| 16:24.35 | brlcad | yeah, looks right: X_LIBS='-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 ' |
| 16:24.35 | ``Erik | hrm, *shrug* |
| 16:24.41 | ``Erik | mebbe something to poke on after lunch... ya working from home today? |
| 16:26.00 | brlcad | noir:~/brlcad morrison$ nm -g -o /usr/X11R6/lib/* 2>/dev/null | grep _XNewModifiermap |
| 16:26.04 | brlcad | /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a:ModMap.o: 000001ae T _XNewModifiermap |
| 16:26.29 | brlcad | from home all week |
| 16:27.29 | brlcad | again, I'm not complaining.. I need/want the test to fail :-) .. it's just entirely non-obvious why it's failing (which might mean it'll fail somewhere it shouldn't) |
| 16:28.20 | ``Erik | hum |
| 16:28.39 | ``Erik | (is nm an alias for otool -t?) |
| 16:28.49 | ``Erik | or, -T, rather |
| 16:29.27 | brlcad | er, not really .. it's the traditional nm |
| 16:30.05 | ``Erik | you got both my cphone # and lees, right? so you can verify dest once we figure it out? if you want to grab lunch... |
| 16:30.18 | brlcad | ah, I just ate |
| 16:30.22 | ``Erik | aight |
| 16:30.27 | ``Erik | *shrug* later, dude :D |
| 16:30.30 | brlcad | later |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: restructure the X11 checks so that if --without-x11 is provided, all of the |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: associated x11 checks are also disabled as well so we don't waste time testing |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: for things that will not be used. similarly, don't auto-add /usr/X11R6 to the |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: search paths or add the extra restart paths unless we're in automatic or yes |
| 17:21.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: mode |
| 17:49.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: similarly disable all the java checks if we're --without-java |
| 18:00.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 18:00.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: clarify the license detail that this particular file, as part of the build |
| 18:00.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: system, is BSD licensed. the lgpl was used before since this file is often |
| 18:00.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: encountered first, but instead use the correct header and include a note about |
| 18:00.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: how the license applied, referring to COPYING for more details. |
| 18:30.37 | ``Erik | ahhhh |
| 18:41.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: similarly disable opengl/wgl checks if they are disabled via arg |
| 18:49.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add an entire new section for documentation, listing various documents that are written or planned. include notes and status for some that are already completed but perhaps not yet in CVS |
| 19:16.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: stray " |
| 19:33.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: copyright was acquired (by non-gov't) and later assigned to the government prior to open sourcing. remove old clause |
| 19:37.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_grip.c: seems to be a header that didn't update correctly -- accept implicit assignment of copyright via former brl-cad agreement, while retaining authorship details even though GSI is sadly now defunct. |
| 19:45.12 | ``Erik | http://www.mirrorimage.com/air/page04.html |
| 19:49.54 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: any good at diagnosing X11 problems? |
| 19:50.05 | dtidrow_work | or anybody else, for that matter |
| 20:13.09 | ``Erik | what kinda 'problems'? |
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| 20:20.15 | Maloeran | Ahah, online software engineering degrees are so depressing. Introduction to Unix, HTML, XML, SQL, Basic, .NET? What the... |
| 20:24.27 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: it's dying deep down in an X call - XrmStringToQuark |
| 20:24.27 | dtidrow_work | segfaulting |
| 20:24.59 | Maloeran | I thought I knew Xlib, but I don't remember seeing that function |
| 20:25.00 | dtidrow_work | which is about 13 call levels removed from the top X call :-\ |
| 20:25.23 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: I'm guessing its very deep down in the bowels of xlib |
| 20:26.25 | dtidrow_work | this seems to be rather old code, so the libs may have changed enough to break previously valid assumptions |
| 20:28.05 | ``Erik | huh, is the string being passed to it legit? |
| 20:28.58 | dtidrow_work | can't tell - no decent debug info available that deep down |
| 20:29.49 | ``Erik | hum, can't set a breakpoint at it and look at the argument? |
| 20:30.01 | Maloeran | *nods* It shouldn't segfault unless the address passed to it is unreadable |
| 20:30.13 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: nope, afaict |
| 20:30.52 | dtidrow_work | I can change the stack frame to that calling function, but there's no debug info at all available |
| 20:30.59 | dtidrow_work | at least with the libs I have installed |
| 20:31.26 | dtidrow_work | meaning I can't see the function arguments |
| 20:31.41 | Maloeran | What's this code you are running? Do you have the source code? |
| 20:31.43 | ``Erik | there's only one argument, it'll either be on the stack or a register (depending on os and arch) |
| 20:31.59 | ``Erik | once you have the address, any debugger SHOULD be able to look at it |
| 20:32.08 | ``Erik | or you can see if it even makes sense |
| 20:32.25 | ``Erik | if you happen to know where heap and stack tend to be on that os/arch |
| 20:32.46 | dtidrow_work | gdb on x86 |
| 20:33.01 | dtidrow_work | linux/x86, that is |
| 20:33.04 | ``Erik | linux and fbsd are pretty different there with function call convention, last I looked |
| 20:33.06 | ``Erik | aight |
| 20:33.39 | ``Erik | iirc, linux/x86/gcc likes to try to do a register fill with arguments before jumping o.O |
| 20:33.59 | ``Erik | but my info might be outdated or just plain wrong, not exactly something I muched with much |
| 20:34.01 | Maloeran | Arguments are passed on the stack on x86/Linux |
| 20:34.18 | ``Erik | oh, fully on the stack? mebbe I'm thinking syscalls (int 0x80) |
| 20:34.38 | ``Erik | ok, so examine the stack, find the ptr you want, ... |
| 20:34.45 | dtidrow_work | yeah, there aren't too many available registers with x86 :-\ |
| 20:35.20 | ``Erik | there are 8 gp registers.. but, uh, none of them are actually general purpose :( |
| 20:35.32 | dtidrow_work | here's the call stack: |
| 20:35.35 | dtidrow_work | #0 0x05c1c731 in XrmStringToQuark () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 |
| 20:35.35 | dtidrow_work | #1 0x005ad1cb in XtSetTypeConverter () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.35 | dtidrow_work | #2 0x003021a3 in _XmRepTypeInstallConverters () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3 |
| 20:35.36 | dtidrow_work | #3 0x0027f31d in _XmRegisterConverters () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3 |
| 20:35.36 | dtidrow_work | #4 0x0030e926 in _XmScreenRemoveFromCursorCache () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3 |
| 20:35.36 | dtidrow_work | #5 0x005b37c5 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.38 | dtidrow_work | #6 0x005b37f7 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.39 | Maloeran | Ah, it's all on the stack. On Linux amd64, it's rdi, rsi, rdx, rcx, r8, r9 ; xmm[0..5], xmm12, xmm13 |
| 20:35.42 | dtidrow_work | #7 0x005b37f7 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.50 | dtidrow_work | #8 0x005b3c91 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.52 | dtidrow_work | #9 0x005b3f86 in _XtCreateHookObj () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.54 | dtidrow_work | #10 0x005b447b in _XtAppCreateShell () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.58 | dtidrow_work | #11 0x005e0e93 in XtVaAppCreateShell () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.58 | dtidrow_work | #12 0x005e1342 in _XtVaOpenApplication () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:36.00 | dtidrow_work | #13 0x005e148e in XtVaAppInitialize () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:36.02 | dtidrow_work | #14 0x08050e7b in setupWindow (argc=@0xbfde44e0, argv=0xbfde4564, model=0x82d65f0) at main.cc:96 |
| 20:36.04 | dtidrow_work | #15 0x08050f94 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfde4564) at main.cc:121 |
| 20:36.19 | dtidrow_work | indeed - x86_64 is much better with regards to registers |
| 20:36.22 | ``Erik | yeah, that's a backtrace, no the stack... it's generated by mixing 3 different things and throwing away a good bit of data... |
| 20:36.45 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: yeah, I liked MIPS |
| 20:36.57 | dtidrow_work | pity SGI pissed away their lead... |
| 20:37.11 | ``Erik | heh, I was just reading about that earlier, x86-64 is no longer the name, intel has officially changed the name to be amd64, since it's a reimplementation of amd64's ISA... |
| 20:37.34 | Maloeran | I thought Intel opted for x64 |
| 20:37.50 | ``Erik | jra was asking me why his x86-64 desktop started calling itself amd64 |
| 20:37.55 | Maloeran | Microsoft refers to the architecture as x64, the open-source world refers to it as amd64 |
| 20:37.56 | dtidrow_work | intel had it as EM64T, or something like that - just to avoid having to call it amd64 :-) |
| 20:38.17 | dtidrow_work | last I heard, anyway |
| 20:38.37 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EM64T |
| 20:38.53 | dtidrow_work | it's essentially intel's clone of amd64, though :-) |
| 20:39.10 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: seems to be failing in the app setup, which takes several strings... passing any command line args? might try changing them and/or making sure something's not wrong with the input |
| 20:39.28 | dtidrow_work | AMD had better get its act in gear - Core is kicking Athlon a** |
| 20:40.03 | ``Erik | XrmStringToQuark() shouldn't care what the string is as long as it's well formed... it LOOKS like a basic symbol table dealie |
| 20:40.05 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: tried that - dies elsewhere due to a differently formatted data file |
| 20:40.30 | brlcad | the fact that it's crashing deep isn't as important as it crashing at XtVaAppInitialize() from the app's perspective |
| 20:41.10 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: and I'm pretty much an AMD fan as well, esp. the Opterons with their distributed memory architecture |
| 20:41.15 | brlcad | that's one of the very first x calls it's probably making.. is the xserver actual running? :) |
| 20:41.40 | dtidrow_work | ;-) |
| 20:41.44 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:42.04 | ``Erik | heh, 'cept half the time, silly questions get answered with "oh, uhhhh.... n/m" |
| 20:42.17 | Maloeran | dtidrow_work, I wouldn't say these Core Duo are quite stomping Opterons. You can't even put two of the chips on the same motherboard |
| 20:42.27 | brlcad | well, I've seen even the most experienced dev try to kick off X11 apps from a Mac Terminal, localhost, forgetting to set display and/or xhosts |
| 20:42.35 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: that one was one step removed from 'is the power on?' |
| 20:42.39 | brlcad | so not entirely unheard of |
| 20:42.51 | ``Erik | hum |
| 20:42.54 | ``Erik | don? is the power on? |
| 20:42.57 | Maloeran | Plus, Opterons are ahead in the very important performance/cost ratio |
| 20:42.57 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:43.39 | ``Erik | but intels chips are the ones being picked up by h^Hdell and apple |
| 20:44.04 | Maloeran | I thought Dell had switched to AMD, or perhaps it was HP |
| 20:44.19 | dtidrow_work | they did, then the Core came out... |
| 20:45.08 | dtidrow_work | the Core's perform better than equivalently-priced Athlons (apparently) |
| 20:45.16 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: another possibility.. linking in the wrong library |
| 20:45.31 | brlcad | rather suspicious that it's the first Xt call |
| 20:45.52 | brlcad | ldd show anything useful? |
| 20:46.07 | dtidrow_work | I was looking at that, but don't have any experience with straight X11 stuff |
| 20:46.58 | brlcad | how about just the basics.. ldd the binary and see if there are any 64-bit's being mixed with 32-bits and vice-versa |
| 20:47.16 | dtidrow_work | well, I compiled the binary, and I don't have a 64-bit capable system |
| 20:47.24 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 20:47.30 | brlcad | depends on the OS and compiler |
| 20:47.31 | dtidrow_work | my thoughts exactly |
| 20:47.37 | brlcad | some will let you |
| 20:47.44 | brlcad | and just crash at run-time |
| 20:47.48 | brlcad | (fun) |
| 20:47.53 | ``Erik | linux/x86/gcc, I think the rtld at least has the decency to check there |
| 20:47.57 | dtidrow_work | not gcc/linux, in my experience |
| 20:48.10 | brlcad | yeah, but I wasn't making assumptions ;) |
| 20:48.16 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:48.24 | brlcad | so this is linux |
| 20:48.24 | ``Erik | brlcad: I asked him his platform earlier.. :D |
| 20:48.30 | brlcad | ah, i missed that |
| 20:50.33 | brlcad | erm, you compiled this yourself but can't step through in gdb? |
| 20:50.55 | Maloeran | The libraries must not have debugging symbols I guess |
| 20:50.57 | dtidrow_work | not that deep in the X libs |
| 20:51.05 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: exactly |
| 20:51.11 | brlcad | sure, but again that's fairly irrelevant |
| 20:51.26 | dtidrow_work | I've got the params to XtVaAppInitialize |
| 20:51.34 | brlcad | from the app's perspective, something is wrong with the XtVaAppInitialize() call inputs or something that preceeds it |
| 20:51.40 | dtidrow_work | ddd'ing it now :-) |
| 20:51.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:51.51 | ``Erik | gui dork |
| 20:52.04 | brlcad | ddd has pretty struct graphs |
| 20:52.21 | dtidrow_work | nice data displays, too |
| 20:52.55 | dtidrow_work | ah, same thing |
| 20:53.20 | ``Erik | but it's been over 10 years :( |
| 20:53.31 | brlcad | ``Erik: it did :) |
| 20:53.31 | dtidrow_work | for ddd? yikes |
| 20:53.49 | brlcad | i last used ddd about that long ago too |
| 20:53.55 | brlcad | (at least seriously) |
| 20:54.10 | Maloeran | Ah, I was writting my first lines of code 10 years ago |
| 20:54.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:55.09 | dtidrow_work | k, 'fess up |
| 20:55.13 | dtidrow_work | how old? |
| 20:55.19 | ``Erik | 24 yrs since my first line of cbm basic2.0 |
| 20:55.29 | Maloeran | Ahah, woah |
| 20:55.31 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 20:55.42 | ``Erik | or, wait, no |
| 20:55.49 | ``Erik | that was on a coleco adam |
| 20:55.50 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: so about 50, eh? ;-) |
| 20:56.19 | Maloeran | So now Erik can say he has been coding from before I was born |
| 20:56.35 | ``Erik | heh, no :D awz a young'n when I got my first machine... and, uh, it's not like you could run down the street to the software store in '83 |
| 20:57.11 | dtidrow_work | yeah, remember those days - had to type programs in from 'Compute' magazine :-) |
| 20:57.45 | ``Erik | uh huh, my dad bought a coleco adam and a book called "games apples play" that was just listing after listing of trivial basic programs |
| 20:57.56 | ``Erik | some of 'em worked without modification on the adam |
| 20:59.00 | ``Erik | oh, I had buck rogers on cassette, too, and a few others |
| 20:59.19 | Maloeran | Eheh, cool |
| 21:01.29 | Maloeran | I had a C compiler and source code from Autocad. I think learning to code would have been easier with some kind of book or reference |
| 21:09.32 | dtidrow_work | from XtVaAppInitialize man page: "XtAppInitialize and XtVaAppInitialize have been superceded by XtOpenApplication and XtVaOpenApplication respectively." |
| 21:09.54 | dtidrow_work | interesting - maybe I just need to change the code to this |
| 21:15.20 | ``Erik | amusing... amazon is selling this book from between $250 and $450 used... but the entire book is available as a pdf for free on the authors website |
| 21:15.34 | ``Erik | (On Lisp - Paul Graham) |
| 21:16.03 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:44.18 | dtidrow_work | well, I'll have to futz with this more at home.... |
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| 23:40.23 | Rangar | phew, oh boy |
| 23:43.27 | brlcad | indeed |
| 23:45.48 | ``Erik | toxic flatulence? |