| 00:00.58 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 00:06.24 | ``Erik | hm |
| 00:42.38 | ``Erik | hah |
| 00:42.41 | ``Erik | free? |
| 00:42.51 | brlcad | yup |
| 00:43.04 | ``Erik | aight... they're all on the webpage and it's fast |
| 00:43.05 | brlcad | most of the podcasts are free |
| 00:43.26 | brlcad | yep, but clicking the *subscribe* is pretty darn convenient |
| 00:43.33 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* :D |
| 00:43.35 | brlcad | it'll automatically send me the new ones |
| 00:43.40 | ``Erik | swank |
| 00:43.52 | ``Erik | I might need to do that, heh |
| 00:44.18 | brlcad | these video podcasts are getting addictive |
| 00:44.27 | ``Erik | I have a bookmark folder of "daily urls" that I click "open all" on every day |
| 00:45.08 | brlcad | getting daily nbc news, daily italian lesson, npr fresh air, strongbad, thistlepod, and a few others now |
| 00:45.12 | ``Erik | freshmeat, slashdot, linuxgames, happypenguin, opengl.org, gamasutra, ibm's dev page, my comic page, zefrank, bash.org/?latest, qdb.us/?latest, ... |
| 00:45.50 | brlcad | yeah, most of those are either on my rss list or are visited when I get the chance |
| 00:45.55 | ``Erik | (the comic page crawls 20 or so webcomics and dumps the actual comic from each in a single big unified page) |
| 00:46.04 | brlcad | i've seen/used your comic page |
| 00:46.12 | ``Erik | ah, heh :) |
| 00:46.13 | brlcad | i try to avoid comics these days |
| 00:46.23 | brlcad | too many, too much time :) |
| 00:46.24 | ``Erik | I have a v2 almost done, just some bughunting I think |
| 00:46.50 | ``Erik | it has the notion of user and comic state, so if you've already seen the image, it won't show it again |
| 00:47.29 | ``Erik | (and if you miss a day, it shows you all teh ones you haven't seen) |
| 02:08.23 | louipc | hehe strongbad |
| 02:08.51 | louipc | I wonder if there's a daily finnish lesson podcast |
| 02:18.15 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 02:40.17 | Twingy | seen the Pico-ITX? |
| 02:40.51 | bjorkBSD | no. |
| 03:48.05 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 03:48.05 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 04:00.40 | louipc | have you heard of the linux foundation yet? |
| 04:00.57 | bjorkBSD | who is that? |
| 04:01.17 | louipc | apparently they're gearing up to go against microsoft |
| 04:01.55 | louipc | a merger of odsl and fsg |
| 04:02.20 | louipc | http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/About |
| 04:02.37 | bjorkBSD | ah. |
| 05:24.52 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 06:05.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.3: update example to use libbu bu_getopt |
| 06:09.25 | *** join/#brlcad cad61 (n=51d56cf5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 06:13.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: declare k in f_mirror |
| 06:13.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c: change references to f_mirror to rt_mirror |
| 06:29.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: uses libbu and libbn, libadd declare them |
| 06:33.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: dependency ordering on libadd libraries |
| 06:38.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: document all of the various library dependencies. add a description of the newly added libbrlcad as well. |
| 06:38.36 | brlcad | good stuff |
| 06:57.17 | Maloeran | A stupid question ; does anyone have a term to refer to the entities of a processing network, may they technically be clients, servers, masters or slaves? |
| 06:58.35 | Maloeran | Just trying to get proper terms for the API, "nodes" and "links" are already internally used for other concepts |
| 06:59.50 | brlcad | processing node is what first comes to mind |
| 07:00.52 | brlcad | might get away with peers if they are also peers |
| 07:00.55 | Maloeran | Right. I'm trying to avoid confusion on internal terms |
| 07:01.28 | Maloeran | "Peers" wouldn't be too appropriate, it's more master/slave based |
| 07:02.30 | Maloeran | Thanks, I'll use "Node" in the API and try to avoid confusion within the source |
| 07:07.47 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:07.50 | brlcad | yeah, there's not much terminology when it comes to generic descriptions of network connectivity |
| 07:09.00 | brlcad | connections, nodes, points, links, junctures, hmm.. |
| 07:12.25 | *** join/#brlcad clock__ (i=clock@84-72-61-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:31.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (156 files in 12 dirs): Updated to the latest release of libpng, from version 1.2.8 to version 1.2.16. Includes all of their ('without config script' distribution) files. |
| 07:44.08 | brlcad | dammit.. per-program cppflags wasn't added until automake 1.7 |
| 08:18.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.c: need stdlib.h for exit(), quell warning |
| 08:24.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: |
| 08:24.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: rename ogl_open, ogl_close, and ogl_choose_visual to have an fb_ prefix to avoid |
| 08:24.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: namespace collisions with libdm. this should probably be done more |
| 08:24.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: comprehensively, but gets past the linking error du jour. declare funcs one per |
| 08:24.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: line while we're in here. |
| 08:27.25 | brlcad | what is this .. |
| 08:27.32 | brlcad | sleep .. you speak of |
| 08:27.47 | Maloeran | It's very relaxing, you should try it sometimes |
| 08:27.56 | brlcad | sounds like devil talk |
| 08:28.03 | brlcad | keep your voodoo magic to yourself |
| 08:29.58 | brlcad | hm. i wish there were a 24 hour gym nearby.. i could really go for a workout right about now |
| 08:30.20 | Maloeran | Running outside in the snow won't do the trick? It works for me |
| 08:30.46 | brlcad | there's not much snow out, but plenty of ice I"m sure |
| 08:31.01 | Maloeran | Ah yes, that's less pleasant |
| 08:31.18 | brlcad | rather dark to see it too this far out |
| 08:32.57 | brlcad | plus, my knees and quads are already sore from yesterday, I'd rather do some heavy lifts and something less pounding on the knees .. followed by a nice dip in a hot tub or sauna.. |
| 08:33.00 | brlcad | mmMMMmmmm |
| 08:33.37 | Maloeran | So I'm guessing you don't have to be at work at 7h30 tomorrow, right? :) |
| 08:36.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:36.50 | brlcad | I don't, but I think I will go in anyways .. should be pleasant enough to get some work done |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (12 files in 10 dirs): |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: remove the png headers from our include directory. png_cppflags are now |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: provided by configure and appropriately set to src/other/libpng if we're not |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: using a system libpng. this should help to avoid header conflicts aside from |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: just unnecessarily duplicating 3rd party headers. use the new png_cppflags as |
| 08:36.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: appropriate, though have to add it to _CFLAGS since per target _CPPFLAGS support |
| 08:36.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: wasn't added until automake 1.7 (and brl-cad allows anything 1.6.0+). |
| 08:37.12 | brlcad | maybe keep hacking here until the gym opens at 5, then in to work |
| 08:37.58 | Maloeran | Impressive. I'm barely able to write code after being awake a mere 18 hours |
| 08:39.01 | brlcad | varies for me, sometimes good for 20, sometimes 40 .. depends what I'm doing during my circadian low |
| 08:40.17 | brlcad | my schedule rotated a few times last week from a couple all-nighters, so I don't think I'll hit a low until about 8am right now |
| 08:40.47 | brlcad | so makes for an easy 40 as I'll be energized after the workout, and busy |
| 08:43.28 | Maloeran | Eheh, nice. My circadian cycle used to be completely messed up, days of 30 hours, for years... I really made an effort to adopt a normal daily cycle when the contract began |
| 08:44.32 | clock_ | I went sleeping yesterday at midnight instead of the recently more usual 22.40 and my rhythm is going to be screwed up from that for about the next week ;-) |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (91 files in 31 dirs): |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: convert all of the lingering getopt calls to bu_getopt (as well as the related |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: getopt globals optind, opterr, optarg) -- libbu's getopt has the benefit of |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: being re-entrant and is portable to environments where getopt() may not be |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: available. |
| 10:03.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 10:03.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: check for -lstdc++ properly like any other library. add conditionals around the |
| 10:03.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: openNURBS checks so if it's disabled, the checks are not performed. rephrase |
| 10:03.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the availability summary (we're not necessarily linking them, they're just |
| 10:03.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: available) |
| 14:49.42 | bjorkBSD | you're aging! |
| 14:49.51 | ``Erik | brlcad: would it be so horrible to bump the required automake to 1.7? 99.9% of the consumers will just use what package with it when you do a "make dist"... |
| 14:50.41 | ``Erik | no, my employer does not understand the notion of 'first 40' or 'flex time' |
| 14:52.09 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:30.52 | Maloeran | Woohoo, SURVICE understood how direct deposit to canadian banks works. Time to buy some hardware |
| 15:43.18 | bjorkBSD | survice sells hardwar? |
| 15:43.20 | bjorkBSD | e |
| 15:43.40 | dtidrow | they sent money so that he can buy some |
| 15:44.33 | bjorkBSD | can anyone receive money to buy hardware? |
| 15:45.06 | dtidrow | heh - would be nice, wouldn't it? ;-) |
| 15:46.00 | dtidrow | IIRC, they've got some sort of consulting arrangement going |
| 15:46.10 | bjorkBSD | they buy him hardware and he says 'woohoo' |
| 15:46.19 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. i'd like such a gig too. |
| 15:58.33 | brlcad | ``Erik: yes it would be |
| 15:59.26 | brlcad | at least right now, with the main dev platform still shipping 1.6.3 |
| 16:04.57 | Maloeran | Still awake, Sean? :) |
| 16:06.08 | brlcad | yeap |
| 16:06.35 | brlcad | didn't make it to the gym, though .. |
| 16:06.38 | bjorkBSD | say, did you develop the industry diagram? |
| 16:06.41 | bjorkBSD | ... it's my wall paper :D |
| 16:06.43 | brlcad | mebbie later |
| 16:06.53 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: heh, neat |
| 16:08.20 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 16:09.04 | bjorkBSD | i put away my brl tutorials until i saw that cray lecture mentioning brl :D |
| 16:10.06 | brlcad | =) |
| 16:10.34 | bjorkBSD | eh. i was gonna use rhino. |
| 16:10.55 | bjorkBSD | but i found religion so i'll stick to this. |
| 16:11.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:11.39 | brlcad | rhino's pretty nice, for some purposes in particular |
| 16:11.56 | brlcad | entirely limited in other ways, but nice for their market |
| 16:11.59 | bjorkBSD | but brl is functionally equivalent so i'm not gonna worry about it too much. |
| 16:14.12 | bjorkBSD | how come the mged user manual isn't mentioned in the docs ... or am i not seeing what's infront of me (as usual) ? |
| 16:14.35 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: not mentioned in which docs? |
| 16:14.37 | bjorkBSD | yeah it's in .ps and it starts from the bibliography but it's pretty damned good! |
| 16:14.48 | bjorkBSD | the brl docs... i didn't see it on the sourceforge site. |
| 16:15.49 | brlcad | ahh, mostly because the ones that are up there were converted to html, and nobody got around to doing that for the other volumes |
| 16:16.05 | bjorkBSD | oh. |
| 16:17.01 | brlcad | most of the website stuff is rather "half-baked" in need of overhaul attention |
| 16:17.11 | bjorkBSD | hrmmm |
| 16:17.33 | brlcad | with the exception of maybe the rest of the sf project pages |
| 16:17.49 | bjorkBSD | okay. |
| 16:17.51 | brlcad | but brlcad.org, for example, needs to be redone |
| 16:17.58 | brlcad | what's up there now was literally the bare minimum |
| 16:18.56 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: if you are interested in working on it, you're more than welcome ;) |
| 16:19.03 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.20 | bjorkBSD | i use vi and ed so minimalism is my middle name. |
| 16:19.27 | brlcad | hah |
| 16:19.38 | bjorkBSD | however, a user manual/info thingy is part of the product |
| 16:19.51 | bjorkBSD | and it really helps make it more use-able. |
| 16:20.03 | bjorkBSD | so ... i'd like to take a stab at it. |
| 16:20.15 | bjorkBSD | don't expect fancy flying gifs though :-S |
| 16:20.22 | brlcad | i'd really at least like to get those documents into CVS, but that's a chore |
| 16:20.24 | bjorkBSD | or umm flash-ey bits and what not. |
| 16:21.05 | bjorkBSD | why the hell not? :D |
| 16:21.08 | brlcad | just fancy flashy flying pngs instead? :) |
| 16:21.11 | bjorkBSD | hahahha |
| 16:21.57 | brlcad | the tutorial series is fairly straightforward .. mainly converting them all to docbook is just grunt work |
| 16:22.23 | bjorkBSD | never used docbook. i'll find out. |
| 16:22.30 | brlcad | the hard question is whether things like the industry diagram can be brought in as anything other than an image |
| 16:23.34 | bjorkBSD | it's a nice wallpaper i tell you. |
| 16:23.52 | brlcad | there's no good/common standard format where I could actually get the diagram back to the tools used to create it |
| 16:24.05 | bjorkBSD | what'd you use? |
| 16:24.26 | brlcad | that was mostly done in indesign |
| 16:25.34 | bjorkBSD | hmm |
| 16:25.41 | brlcad | rather tufteish diagram, I should send it to him to see if he'd comment |
| 16:25.51 | bjorkBSD | hehehehe |
| 16:26.07 | brlcad | it has something like 7 dimensions of data |
| 16:27.10 | bjorkBSD | well, my car's not co-operating with me and it's too cold to go play outside so i should do something. |
| 16:27.21 | bjorkBSD | i might uncover more tutorials to push me along :) |
| 16:28.28 | bjorkBSD | the one i'm using is a little long in the tooth on just a chapter or two which might fit neatly in an appendix. |
| 16:29.12 | ``Erik | brlcad: "main dev platform"? both fink and macports have newer automakes, as does fbsd... :D |
| 16:29.49 | brlcad | ``Erik: your point being? neither of those are provided by default |
| 16:30.01 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 16:30.50 | brlcad | it's only a minor annoyance that have to use _CFLAGS instead of _CPPFLAGS .. hardly worth changing a fundamental version minimum |
| 16:31.31 | brlcad | especially one that would make things a pita in general for the common use |
| 16:32.33 | ``Erik | <-- has always taken the "it's a distributable, so I'll use whatever I have on my system" approach, very few people should be touching the Makefile.am's, and those that should touch them probably have a more recent version or can get it and know what to do :) |
| 16:32.46 | ``Erik | you're not in the building, are you? it's gettin' to be lunch time |
| 16:33.06 | brlcad | nope, I ditched |
| 16:33.19 | bjorkBSD | where do i sign, mr brl? |
| 16:33.29 | ``Erik | dave is disturbingly eager to check out the o club O.o |
| 16:33.29 | bjorkBSD | *signup* |
| 16:33.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: even for just myself.. it would make my daily use a pita as I'd have to change all the macs I work with |
| 16:34.02 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: right here ;) |
| 16:34.14 | ``Erik | ok... all the macs I work with have 1.10 from macports, it's a fundamental to my operation as putting my dock on the side and changing to graphice :) |
| 16:34.20 | ``Erik | graphite |
| 16:34.20 | bjorkBSD | -> bjork is a GODDESS :x |
| 16:34.22 | bjorkBSD | there. done. |
| 16:34.46 | brlcad | that's just because you're a bsd zealot even on the mac ;) |
| 16:35.18 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hehe |
| 16:35.52 | ``Erik | I d'no if I'd say "zealot".. I do have solid expectations of how machines should operate (they should work, be efficient, and let me get my job done with minimal fuss) that drives me towards the bsd's with a certain package load |
| 16:36.09 | brlcad | yeah yeah, it's religion ;) |
| 16:36.38 | ``Erik | heh, at least it's the right one ;> |
| 16:36.49 | brlcad | I appreciate it to, but I also like things working without any effort on my part to "set them up" |
| 16:37.08 | brlcad | when that can be done without a setup cost, sweet |
| 16:37.30 | brlcad | when it can't, se la vie .. another day |
| 16:38.08 | ``Erik | out of the box, a mac needs serious help... gotta get X on it, gotta get Xcode, gotta make some symlinks, ... |
| 16:38.29 | ``Erik | I should stupid one of my macs back to vanilla for testing, I suppose :) |
| 16:38.43 | bjorkBSD | a script! |
| 16:38.52 | bjorkBSD | a setup script! that's what your mac-y needs |
| 16:39.07 | brlcad | technically you don't "gotta get X on it" nor any symlinks, and a compiler is there by default |
| 16:39.25 | ``Erik | hm, all 5 of them are already 'correct', why should I make a script? :D |
| 16:40.00 | bjorkBSD | hehehe to make the 6th one easier to setup. |
| 16:40.05 | ``Erik | hum, I thought out of the box, it didn't have gcc... (unless you use the developer package some versions came with) |
| 16:41.28 | brlcad | I've heard of some getting a system that really had no compiler installed, but I've yet to see one that didn't and those claiming it didn't weren't entirely reputable |
| 16:42.31 | brlcad | might have just been named something different for that matter, they support the "posix compiler" interface too (cc, c89, c90, etc) |
| 16:44.29 | Maloeran | OSX is the "main dev platform"? Gah! |
| 16:44.46 | bjorkBSD | the plot thickens |
| 16:44.52 | bjorkBSD | Maloeran's view dims. |
| 16:45.01 | brlcad | in the end, it still comes down to usability -- if some random user downloads the package and attempts to compile -- it's far easier to tell them to install the dev tools (and even X11) than macports followed by a set of command line things they have to run |
| 16:46.17 | brlcad | Maloeran: philosophy is to run anywhere and everywhere .. "main dev platform" is an extension of where most of the development occurs, not any conscious decision to support any system over any other |
| 16:46.52 | brlcad | if there were active windows devs or linux devs that were out-contributing, that would easily change |
| 16:47.12 | Maloeran | From my limited experience so far, OSX seems a very poor platform performance-wise |
| 16:48.18 | brlcad | a curious statement, really, though only a tiny fraction of the entire equation |
| 16:49.33 | ``Erik | and, yeah, if your code abuses syscalls and you tune it so the abuse is acceptable on one os but not others, the other os's will look poor. Code better. :D |
| 16:50.10 | Maloeran | Erik, test that raytracing benchmark on OSX, you'll see the same issues |
| 16:51.17 | ``Erik | actually, I did with librt, and I didn't see that issue... the mac screamed... not as hard as the opterons, but it stomped the ia32 :) |
| 16:51.56 | Maloeran | I now have a complete memory manager sitting on top of malloc(), but I would be eager to point out that it provides no benefit on Linux |
| 16:53.07 | bjorkBSD | hmmm maybe i should dust off my indigo2 ;) |
| 16:53.09 | ``Erik | (in fact, of all the cpu's and os's I tested, the g5/osX was the #3 spot in performance, the top two being opterons running fbsd and linux. Absolute worst was ia32 (p4-xeon) running linux) |
| 16:53.16 | bjorkBSD | oh it still lacks a monitor. |
| 16:53.23 | bjorkBSD | (to do... splurge on monitor) |
| 16:53.34 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: heh |
| 16:53.41 | brlcad | splurge |
| 16:54.07 | bjorkBSD | yeah. after i develop my inventions in brlcad and sell them, of course :D |
| 16:54.14 | brlcad | cool |
| 16:54.33 | Maloeran | Erik, I guess they are less abusive in large memory allocation/freeing than my graph preparation code |
| 16:54.47 | Maloeran | Even though it's all dynamically allocated |
| 16:55.26 | ``Erik | you should invent and patent a business model for coping with the patent system :D |
| 16:55.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: I actually wrote/ran a malloc analysis tool a few years ago whilest investigating a problem with malloc on 10.2 -- ran the tool across versions of the OS, ran on different hardware, different OSs |
| 16:55.50 | Maloeran | "Patent on how to circumvent patents" |
| 16:56.12 | bjorkBSD | you're patenting google.com/patents? :P |
| 16:56.50 | brlcad | OS X 10.3 and 10.4's malloc performance is actually rather decent in comparison, it was amazingly better than everything else for some allocation sizes, or on par at others |
| 16:57.03 | brlcad | a lot of variability in the lower allocation size ranges |
| 16:57.06 | ``Erik | still got the data handy? and did you just do malloc and free, or did you do calloc and realloc, as well? (realloc tends to be one of the places where abuse really shows the dfiference between dlmalloc and phkmalloc) |
| 16:57.57 | Maloeran | Ah... I don't know the details, but I know that my original graph preparation code would make OSX spend 90% of it's time in "syscalls", due to its aggressive freeing and zero'ing of pages |
| 16:58.01 | brlcad | i ran calloc/realloc at the time and didn't notice really any relative difference on the first few tests, so in the interest of time stopped |
| 16:58.30 | Maloeran | Code than ran in 10 seconds on Linux was taking several minutes on Erik's OSX box, I could hardly believe it |
| 16:58.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: of course, I never get rid of any data ;) |
| 16:59.35 | ``Erik | phkmalloc guarantees contiguous wire memory, so if it cannot cleanly grow the memory, it allocates a new area and copies the data, then frees the old one... dlmalloc dicks with the mmu lsu and just lives with insanely fragmented memory |
| 16:59.59 | Maloeran | Insanely fragment memory is not a problem |
| 17:00.21 | Maloeran | Caching and prefetching work in the process address space, not the translated addresses |
| 17:00.37 | ``Erik | that depends... |
| 17:00.54 | Maloeran | And anyway, realloc() was not the issue, I don't think there's any of that in the prep |
| 17:01.17 | ``Erik | if y ou have something like hotswap domains where you can remove physical memory from a live machine, fragmented memory makes the release code much more complicated (therefore bug prone) |
| 17:01.40 | ``Erik | the ugly and bad of fragmented memory is there, but it's the os's job to cover it up *shrug* |
| 17:02.21 | Maloeran | Sacrificing performance because it's "more bug prone" is not a good argument for me :) |
| 17:02.48 | ``Erik | adrt's initial file reader was something like read a page, realloc, read a page, ... it was ok on linux, but crawled on bsd :) |
| 17:03.05 | Maloeran | Yes, it still does that to collect triangles |
| 17:11.39 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 17:11.48 | bjorkBSD | i have an idea. |
| 17:11.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): include bu.h and link libbu for bu_getopt |
| 17:18.12 | Maloeran | All right, it's decided, it's going to be Clovertown 4 cores dies |
| 18:16.46 | *** join/#brlcad cad46 (n=57a08567@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:29.55 | brlcad | speaking of strongbad feed subscriptions, new one out today =) |
| 18:34.46 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 18:35.04 | ``Erik | erm |
| 18:35.17 | ``Erik | 'strong badathlon' was out a couple days ago, dude |
| 18:35.31 | brlcad | haircut |
| 18:36.03 | ``Erik | huh, not showing up at the webpage |
| 18:37.00 | brlcad | ah, not new |
| 18:37.24 | ``Erik | ah ha... podstar |
| 18:40.04 | brlcad | looks like the feed is set up to dish them out at random, maybe because i'm not "caught up" or somesuch |
| 18:51.15 | ``Erik | brlcad: ports/misc/nut |
| 18:52.28 | ``Erik | curses, so it'd work just fine on that machine in belize :) |
| 19:03.08 | *** join/#brlcad bobbens (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) | |
| 19:06.47 | brlcad | heh, funny |
| 19:43.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/SDLMain.h rise/master/SDLMain.h): unused files |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (52 files in 16 dirs): finish changing all #defined symbols to uppercase... |
| 21:30.03 | *** join/#brlcad pcman (n=524c1dd7@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:30.37 | pcman | hello |
| 21:32.12 | pcman | can somebody help me to see if the BRL-CAD is a right choise for me. many thanks |
| 21:34.18 | brlcad | pcman: howdy |
| 21:34.43 | pcman | hello brlcad |
| 21:34.49 | brlcad | pcman: can you pinpoint your need on this diagram? http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 21:35.01 | brlcad | that might help you see if it's even in the ballpark ;) |
| 21:35.37 | pcman | I am developing application for CAD engineering |
| 21:35.57 | brlcad | owhat sort? |
| 21:36.04 | brlcad | s/ow/of w/ |
| 21:36.05 | pcman | more exatly steel detailing and fabrication software on windows |
| 21:36.24 | pcman | 3d model => details |
| 21:36.36 | brlcad | that's starting to get into the CAM realm, but continue.. |
| 21:36.54 | pcman | from 3d model I create 2d drawings |
| 21:37.13 | brlcad | okay |
| 21:37.18 | pcman | fabrication (assembly) |
| 21:37.24 | pcman | and overview |
| 21:37.43 | pcman | currently I use a brep solid modeler |
| 21:38.13 | brlcad | okay |
| 21:38.30 | brlcad | what sort of 2D drawings to you create? |
| 21:38.42 | brlcad | raster/vector? |
| 21:38.50 | pcman | vector |
| 21:38.50 | brlcad | engineering diagrams? |
| 21:38.58 | pcman | not |
| 21:38.58 | brlcad | ala blueprints |
| 21:39.14 | pcman | not diagams |
| 21:40.16 | pcman | sorry I am not sure about the term |
| 21:40.30 | brlcad | how do you currently use the brep solid modeler (which one?) .. you model something in 3d, output a vector diagram, and feed that to the steel detailing machine? |
| 21:41.07 | pcman | I need to create vectorial 2d cut to a 3d model |
| 21:41.31 | pcman | 3d isometry with hidden line removal |
| 21:42.18 | pcman | the output must be vectorial (I further process it programmatically) |
| 21:42.41 | pcman | for dimension symbols, hatch, etc |
| 21:42.52 | brlcad | hm, brl-cad can generate the latter, but alas not in a vectorized format currently |
| 21:43.00 | brlcad | example: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 21:43.15 | pcman | I saw this thanks |
| 21:43.37 | brlcad | most of the image output is configurable, but it's certainly not vector format |
| 21:43.39 | pcman | the of rtedge is always an image |
| 21:43.45 | pcman | ? |
| 21:43.55 | brlcad | it could be vector format, but it would require source modifications |
| 21:44.00 | brlcad | yes, it is |
| 21:44.30 | pcman | and I can have access pogamatically to it? |
| 21:44.50 | brlcad | i played with some tools that generate a vector image from raster images, but they take a fair bit of hand tweaking to get a good vector rep |
| 21:45.01 | pcman | I see |
| 21:45.13 | brlcad | all of brl-cad source code is available (free, open source) |
| 21:45.30 | pcman | currently I use amodeler (Autodesk) |
| 21:45.58 | pcman | I saw this and seems to be a great application |
| 21:46.42 | pcman | I wanted first to check if it's good for my needs and then to digg into the sourcecode |
| 21:47.12 | brlcad | there is a lot of functionality under the hood, but with minimal investment in some aspects (e.g. user interface, usability, etc) |
| 21:48.14 | pcman | yes. I can understand this. It's not a comercial application |
| 21:48.14 | brlcad | there is an API on the entire geometry layer, so you could certainly use the geometric information in a given model and build up a vectorized 2D projection |
| 21:48.48 | pcman | this is what I need |
| 21:49.10 | brlcad | rtedge under it's current implementation basically shoots some sized grid of rays into the scene and queries the geometry types .. it then evaluates the ray results to determine where there are pixels that span a geometric edge |
| 21:49.53 | brlcad | instead of building up a pixel map, you could build up vectorized outlines (as you do have knowledge of geometry types upon intersection) and use that instead |
| 21:51.17 | pcman | I can find information on each geometry the ray hits? |
| 21:51.28 | brlcad | yep, that's the easiest part ;) |
| 21:51.50 | brlcad | that's basically what all of the rt* apps do |
| 21:52.15 | pcman | I will study it. thanks |
| 21:52.34 | brlcad | src/rt/viewedge.c contains the guts to rtedge in the source code |
| 21:52.56 | brlcad | primitive geometry are all implemented in src/librt/g_*.c |
| 21:53.08 | pcman | thank you very much. |
| 21:53.11 | brlcad | *ideally*, to get what you need.. |
| 21:54.17 | pcman | all of these are under the LGPL licensed parts? |
| 21:54.20 | brlcad | you'd probably modify the primitives to provide a projected 2D representation or even just a BREP form of themselves .. you'd then apply any CSG transformations to the BREP forms and project that onto 2D |
| 21:54.42 | brlcad | all of BRL-CAD's code, even the binaries, are now LGPL |
| 21:55.11 | brlcad | basically all LGPL and BSD code (the build system, benchmark suite, and some helper scripts are BSD licensed) now |
| 21:55.33 | brlcad | that announcement is going to be made with the next 7.10 release next week |
| 21:55.39 | brlcad | though the changes are already in CVS |
| 21:55.52 | pcman | great |
| 21:56.12 | pcman | regarding your last advice |
| 21:56.29 | brlcad | documentation changes from a dual-licensed GPL/GFDL to a variant of the BSD license as well |
| 21:57.15 | brlcad | the last advice is the more involved, but not intractable .. and something others would likely contribute to and help with |
| 21:57.15 | pcman | BSD is ok for comercial apps? |
| 21:57.34 | brlcad | heh, BSD is one of the least restrictive |
| 21:58.07 | brlcad | all BSD basically says is that you can't claim authorship on the parts you didn't write, otherwise you can do pretty much *anything* with the code (even sell it) |
| 21:58.53 | brlcad | doesn't even require return of modifications like the LGPL, though any mods would be appreciated |
| 21:59.08 | pcman | great. |
| 21:59.41 | pcman | If we will choose BRL-CAD we will contibute |
| 22:00.45 | brlcad | glad to hear it |
| 22:01.14 | brlcad | that's one of the great aspects of being open source -- if it doesn't do what you want, you're welcome to make the changes to get it doing what you need |
| 22:01.52 | pcman | I have one more concern regarding model size |
| 22:02.13 | brlcad | there's a couple decades and a couple hundred overall man-years of effort invested as it is, so you get a nice leg up from otherwise starting from scratch |
| 22:03.07 | brlcad | BRL-CAD's support for large models actually exceeds most of the commercial packages -- predominantly limited by your construction approach and hardware specifications (how much memory do you have sort of limits) |
| 22:03.31 | pcman | yes. especially I will never get the budget to invest several years in dev. without results |
| 22:04.27 | pcman | I have around 300,000 solid objects (not complex whan comparing to mechanical) |
| 22:05.11 | brlcad | when you say "solid objects" what do you mean? primitive euclidean geometry or are those "parts" in themselves or something else? |
| 22:05.45 | brlcad | sounds like some simple "parts" if I'm reading you right |
| 22:06.17 | pcman | I call an object for example the brep body representation of a steel beam (with cuts, holes...) |
| 22:06.19 | brlcad | like nuts and bolts, hinges, latches, doors, etc |
| 22:06.28 | brlcad | yeah, okay |
| 22:06.28 | pcman | yes |
| 22:07.22 | pcman | I don't know many things about CSG so I am wondering if it's good to model a building with it |
| 22:08.00 | brlcad | it's definitely a different approach in general than you have with traditional BREP feature-based modeling |
| 22:08.28 | pcman | maybe it's too accurate for me and I loose speed |
| 22:08.51 | brlcad | speed is one of the benefits actually, and compactness of the representation |
| 22:09.27 | brlcad | CSG with primitives is about an order of magnitude smaller than spline surfaced BREPs which in itself is about an order smaller than facetized BREP |
| 22:09.53 | brlcad | the downside is really the modeling approach that it requires, it's more mathematically rigorous |
| 22:11.10 | brlcad | both are solid modeling approaches, so you get the same guarantees on topology and valid representations .. but the modeling interface for how you go about associating things is radically different |
| 22:12.03 | brlcad | as a modeling interface, brl-cad's mged modeler leaves much to be desired -- if you specifically need a solid modeling user tool, you'll probably still end up writing your own interface or at least customize mged for your purposes if you went with brl-cad |
| 22:12.18 | brlcad | that's changing with new interfaces being developed, but we're not there yet |
| 22:12.38 | brlcad | the underlying representation, and api for creating/manipulating geometry is where there's a main benefit |
| 22:12.54 | pcman | this is OK in my case. I only want to use the modeler component. |
| 22:13.32 | pcman | in fact replace the current moder |
| 22:14.45 | pcman | currently I persist in the model only parameters and I create (and cache) facetized bodies for display and algortithms |
| 22:15.47 | pcman | With CSG probably the approach should be different. |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the script to M-x indent-regions now already exists (indent.sh). just need to |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: run the script on various directories one at a time while making sure |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: indentation isn't confused by replicated braces in preprocessor wrappings |
| 22:16.28 | brlcad | you could actually do something similar still |
| 22:17.45 | brlcad | brl-cad has an 'intermediate modeler' interface called archer that sort of does something very similar -- it has a concept of storing models in implicit CSG form as well as parameterized to some known template type (e.g. this is a "tank" with a turret this long and this many wheels) .. with facetized versions stashed for opengl display |
| 22:19.22 | pcman | interesting. It's different then mged? I thought it's only another GUI |
| 22:20.41 | brlcad | it is mostly a different gui, wraps what's under mged's hood in different ways, stores things somewhat differently in the .g geometry files |
| 22:21.27 | brlcad | mention it not as something to use (though you certainly can) but as an example of something that performs a somewhat similar task |
| 22:22.41 | pcman | Thank you very much. I will study CSG and BRL-CAD and come back other day. |
| 22:23.15 | brlcad | pcman: sounds good -- if you have any questions, I'm usually here as are several others that should be able to answer questions |
| 22:23.35 | brlcad | the tutorials/guides on the website cover most of the basic approach and design limitations |
| 22:23.44 | pcman | thank you very much. |
| 22:24.11 | pcman | There is available sample code for windows? |
| 22:24.22 | ``Erik | yeah, I'm pretty retarded when it comes to modelling, but those guides were 'nuff to get me able to test my code mods, heh |
| 22:24.24 | brlcad | HACKING file in the source distribution if you're interested in becoming part of the actual dev team (it's an open dev environment) |
| 22:24.59 | brlcad | pcman: most of brl-cad's code, sample or otherwise, works under windows |
| 22:25.25 | brlcad | there's studio build files in misc/ .. two different projects with different purposes |
| 22:25.32 | brlcad | example code spread throughout the package |
| 22:25.53 | brlcad | simple intro on the website: http://brlcad.org/example_app.php |
| 22:26.01 | brlcad | as well as doxygen docs on the website too |
| 22:27.12 | pcman | thank you |
| 22:27.38 | ``Erik | speaking of doxygen; adrt has some doxygen markup, but it's not getting on the webpage... is it ignored on purpose, or is something slipping through the cracks? |
| 22:28.54 | brlcad | ``Erik: probably because there's no group for that code listed in misc/doxygen_structure to key on, nothing in misc/Doxyfile that says exclude it |
| 22:29.35 | brlcad | some of the doxygen markup was just me or justin adding a standard header with a @file section |
| 22:30.22 | ``Erik | there's some function info in there, too |
| 22:30.35 | ``Erik | and structs *shrug* |
| 22:31.10 | brlcad | still, probably just because there's no group for it in the doxygen_struture file |
| 22:31.37 | ``Erik | and try to get some emacs fu, too... heh |
| 22:33.10 | brlcad | emacs fu? |
| 22:33.21 | brlcad | could it be possible? |
| 22:33.25 | brlcad | is erik seeing the light?? |
| 22:33.36 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:34.10 | ``Erik | ... 'slime' interests me. |
| 22:34.26 | dtidrow_work | ouch |
| 22:34.51 | ``Erik | and I'm always willing to learn new things *shrug* I tried ten years ago, before I tried vi |
| 22:35.32 | ``Erik | and it just struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... vi was clean and efficient by comparison *shrug* :) maybe this time around, it'll be a little more interesting to me |
| 22:37.28 | brlcad | yeah, like "calculus struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... basic addition and subtraction was clean and efficient by comparison" |
| 22:37.46 | ``Erik | heh, not exactly the same comparison :) |
| 22:37.52 | brlcad | close :) |
| 22:38.00 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:38.10 | ``Erik | I d'no, vim isn't exactly a slacker editor... |
| 22:38.21 | ``Erik | now if I were saying 'pico' or 'nano', then yeah, you'd have a valid point... |
| 22:38.22 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:38.31 | dtidrow_work | more gasoline on the vi/emacs flamewar.... :-) |
| 22:38.33 | brlcad | never implied that.. heck you can build an entire computer out of a basic ALU ;) |
| 22:38.54 | ``Erik | and if I started jabbering about needing a decent gui ide, I'd hope someone would smack some sense into me |
| 22:39.16 | dtidrow_work | emacs - the original IDE :-) |
| 22:39.27 | dtidrow_work | and windowing system... |
| 22:40.30 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/twinstar_complete.jpg |
| 22:40.55 | Twingy | twice the finger chopping fun! |
| 22:41.00 | Twingy | :D |
| 22:41.39 | Twingy | at least you didn't lose your middle finger |
| 22:42.11 | Twingy | that little parts box is awesome |
| 22:42.17 | Twingy | found it at lowes for $15 |
| 22:43.02 | brlcad | shouldn't that fuel resovoir be on the other side to balance it out? :) |
| 22:43.04 | Twingy | triton charger along with banana to banana, banana to deans, deans to j-type, banana to alligator, and deans to dc all fit up top with the triton charger |
| 22:43.06 | ``Erik | the field box isn't sufficient? |
| 22:43.13 | Twingy | heck no |
| 22:43.36 | brlcad | could use a new paint job |
| 22:43.45 | brlcad | the Justin 2000 |
| 22:43.54 | ``Erik | 'fuel resevoir'? are we lookin' at the same pic? |
| 22:43.58 | Twingy | I haven't put any decals in |
| 22:44.05 | Twingy | I think brlcad went to goatse.cx |
| 22:44.15 | ``Erik | mebbe lemonparty or hai2u |
| 22:44.21 | bjorkBSD | heheh |
| 22:44.35 | brlcad | whatever is got some sort of line into the engine on the left |
| 22:44.44 | ``Erik | that's the muffler |
| 22:44.54 | brlcad | so then that |
| 22:45.03 | Twingy | that weighs like 50 grams |
| 22:45.09 | Twingy | if that |
| 22:45.20 | brlcad | it wasn't for practical/weight reasons.. visual asthetic balance :P |
| 22:45.25 | Twingy | ah |
| 22:45.27 | Twingy | pfft |
| 22:45.28 | ``Erik | int he air, ya wouldn't notice |
| 22:45.41 | ``Erik | if visual asthetic is important, get a ducted fan *shrug* :) |
| 22:45.49 | brlcad | i would.. it'd annoy me all the way to the ground as I repeatedly crashed it by mistake |
| 22:45.49 | ``Erik | aesthetic |
| 22:46.02 | Twingy | so the front nose area can house all of the electronics for my rocket as a testing platform, this plane has about 1.3:1 lift to weight ratio |
| 22:46.22 | ``Erik | those're .25's or .40's? |
| 22:46.28 | Twingy | 0.25 FX's |
| 22:46.38 | Twingy | FX == 18k rpm, regular == 15k rpm |
| 22:46.43 | ``Erik | not the ones with bearings, though |
| 22:46.48 | Twingy | 0.46 == 1.2 HP, (2) 0.25 FX = 1.85 HP |
| 22:47.23 | Twingy | this will do 50-55 mph level |
| 22:47.39 | Twingy | my last plane (the demon plane) did 40-45 mph level |
| 22:47.42 | ``Erik | how heavy is the rocket electronics payload? would it be better to dump those at the cg? |
| 22:47.51 | Twingy | tiny and light |
| 22:47.55 | Twingy | 100 grams maybe |
| 22:47.56 | ``Erik | or just run the battery further back? |
| 22:48.08 | ``Erik | ok, like a watch battery? or a single AAA? |
| 22:48.24 | Twingy | I have a nicad pack that consts of 4 AAA batteries @ 7.2V |
| 22:48.55 | ``Erik | also; is the plane vibration going to be different from rocket vibration? remebering the x10 camera... |
| 22:48.56 | Twingy | smaller than AAA's iirc |
| 22:49.11 | Twingy | yep |
| 22:49.21 | Twingy | that's not going to do anything |
| 22:49.47 | ``Erik | <-- looks forward to hearing about the telementry data :D |
| 22:50.09 | Twingy | haven't built the new circuit (or rocket) yet |
| 22:50.28 | Twingy | this plane will likely get flown once or twice then get grounded while new rocket is under construction |
| 22:51.37 | ``Erik | one of these days, I'll finish that ultrasport 40 |
| 22:51.49 | bjorkBSD | why don't you build something you can fly in? |
| 22:52.31 | ``Erik | bjork: that'd be really expensive... not just in parts, but in certification as well... |
| 22:52.32 | Twingy | it'd be alot cheaper to just buy a phillipino kid to start your plane for you |
| 22:52.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:53.07 | Twingy | they used to be rampant on ebay... |
| 22:53.54 | Twingy | "Look boss Zee plane boss, Zee plane!" |
| 22:53.54 | ``Erik | looks like it quit snowing |
| 22:54.25 | ``Erik | locked cage in the back of the cave? :) |
| 22:54.35 | Twingy | 2400 sq ft house, and I spend 80% of my time awake in a 6x10 room |
| 22:54.45 | bjorkBSD | certification? parts? |
| 22:54.54 | bjorkBSD | you don't need either for a paramotor or an ultralight! |
| 22:55.09 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, you couldn't fly those here, it's too developed |
| 22:55.16 | bjorkBSD | where's 'here'? |
| 22:55.21 | ``Erik | ultralights have pretty strict guidelines on altitude, weight, horse power, etc... |
| 22:55.29 | ``Erik | baltimore |
| 22:55.44 | bjorkBSD | yeah it's still ME flying vs squinting at a fly |
| 22:55.45 | ``Erik | in the city, the gang bangers would shoot at you... away from the city, the rednecks would shoot at you... |
| 22:55.47 | bjorkBSD | ah. |
| 22:55.51 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 22:55.57 | bjorkBSD | i live in f'vlle, AR |
| 22:56.15 | ``Erik | I would've guessed kansas city |
| 22:56.16 | bjorkBSD | there's plenny of country to go around. |
| 22:56.16 | Twingy | so you'd have rednecks shooting at you |
| 22:56.26 | bjorkBSD | no. worse. hill billys! |
| 22:56.33 | bjorkBSD | 'cause you'll be close enough to their homes. |
| 22:56.37 | ``Erik | <-- used to live in springfield, missoura |
| 22:57.34 | ``Erik | hillbillies are amusing :) |
| 22:57.51 | bjorkBSD | yeah. they go hun'n for 'coons a lot. |
| 22:57.59 | bjorkBSD | and they're liable to miss every now and then. |
| 22:58.21 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:58.29 | Twingy | once I get gerber junk in gcam I'll make the boards |
| 22:58.42 | ``Erik | twingy: for your interesting stuff, are you using an OS (like centos or qnx or something), or coding on the metal? |
| 22:59.28 | Twingy | I have alot of interesting stuff, is this work or home related? |
| 22:59.32 | bjorkBSD | 'interesting stuff'? |
| 23:00.39 | ``Erik | (also; sorry to poop on the party, but if I understand correct... tie_push() takes a blind pointer that you can associate to anything and retrieve in the hit function?) |
| 23:00.43 | ``Erik | work... are you actually coding embedded stuff (other than pic) at home? heh :) |
| 23:01.15 | Twingy | a pointer to an array of pointers with a stride, the stride is the index to each pointer |
| 23:01.22 | Twingy | typically 4 for 32-bit, 8 for 64-bit |
| 23:01.54 | ``Erik | ok, is that per triangle, or is that a set associated with each triangle? |
| 23:02.45 | Twingy | per triangle |
| 23:02.56 | Twingy | feel tree to make a version more apropos to your application |
| 23:03.04 | ``Erik | (or if you'd rather, where's the best place to start reading code to figure it out... I'm trying to build something akin to a greatly simplified librt partition list) |
| 23:03.43 | Twingy | well, the one day you looked at libtie and said all this pointer junk is obfuscated I started adding comments galore |
| 23:03.53 | Twingy | there should be almost 1:1 ratio between comments and code |
| 23:04.09 | ``Erik | heh, I've already been changing conventions to make it feel more 'normal' to me... all the defined symbols got changed to uppercase, for example :) I'm operating under the notion that you don't give a rats ass anymore and rf will supercede it |
| 23:04.38 | ``Erik | but I'm on the hook to prove that rf meets or misses the arbitrary 5x factor |
| 23:04.44 | Twingy | it's there as an off the shelf 'thing' for you to take and twist/warp to your application |
| 23:05.26 | Twingy | it's so small that it's really easy to go in and change the API all around |
| 23:06.09 | ``Erik | ok, other stupid question; tie_work() processes just to the next hit? so to shoot all the way through, I'd have to keep calling it until it says it missed? |
| 23:06.46 | Twingy | the hit callback you pass to tie_work continues to get called until it returns something non-NULL |
| 23:06.56 | ``Erik | ah, 'k |
| 23:07.00 | Twingy | very inefficient |
| 23:07.09 | ``Erik | thanks :) hopefully you'll never hear about libtie again :D |
| 23:07.19 | Twingy | but brl-cad style and what was suggested to be at the time of implementation |
| 23:07.28 | Twingy | I don't mind either way |
| 23:08.02 | ``Erik | (doncha hate when people in mgmt roles make technical decisions? they're never the right ones...) |
| 23:08.03 | Twingy | I'm not into annexing myself from previous work, I just can't spend all of my time on it anymore |
| 23:08.20 | Twingy | why do you think I left? |
| 23:08.40 | bjorkBSD | the plane had to be built! |
| 23:08.42 | Twingy | I'm honestly surprised more people haven't left yet |
| 23:08.42 | brlcad | not enough cheese poofs |
| 23:08.43 | bjorkBSD | j/k :P |
| 23:09.11 | Twingy | I don't even like visiting that building any more cause of the anxiety it gives me |
| 23:09.18 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:09.21 | Twingy | comparatively speaking |
| 23:09.25 | Twingy | i didn't realize it until I left |
| 23:09.31 | Twingy | and then a month later I came back |
| 23:09.40 | Twingy | and just felt like a wave of stress |
| 23:09.42 | ``Erik | you still need to give a subset of coworkers a tour of your new digs :D |
| 23:09.55 | bjorkBSD | wait, is brlcad a secret project to turn aliens into fish? :( |
| 23:09.59 | Twingy | wendy and I set something up before christmas, but she canceled it |
| 23:10.10 | ``Erik | have ya talked to bob or paul lately? :D |
| 23:10.16 | Twingy | I haven't heard anything since |
| 23:10.51 | Twingy | lately? no, I probably won't interface with them ever again since we are in completely different lines of work now |
| 23:11.12 | ``Erik | if the opportunity arose, I'd just go check it out, I'm done asking for wendys permission or input |
| 23:11.58 | Twingy | well, I can tell you that if you stay there for another year things will probably be different, if you can't last that long then I'd suggest moving somewhere else |
| 23:13.10 | ``Erik | heh, I keep getting requests from google and yahoo, and I'm half interested in doing the 'start a company' thing again. Of course, if I did that route, I'd find someone to play the sales/marketing/business side, I HATED that and was not good at it |
| 23:13.43 | ``Erik | sucked 'nuff that I just quit once I hit the break-even point |
| 23:13.50 | ``Erik | and went and got a 'real' job |
| 23:14.53 | Twingy | the sig rascal is a nice plane too |
| 23:15.03 | Twingy | if I had the money I might buy that |
| 23:15.35 | ``Erik | that's a bigger one |
| 23:15.59 | Twingy | http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCXT9&P=0 |
| 23:16.02 | ``Erik | damn, $400 |
| 23:16.23 | Twingy | but that would fly so smooth |
| 23:16.30 | Twingy | even in light winds |
| 23:17.09 | ``Erik | nothing on the site about lift ratio |
| 23:17.16 | Twingy | I will probably build my next plane on my cnc mill out of foam and balsa |
| 23:17.28 | Twingy | the rascal would be a fun fly |
| 23:17.30 | ``Erik | using someone elses plans? or a complete new work? |
| 23:17.40 | bjorkBSD | you have a mil? |
| 23:17.48 | Twingy | a continuation of something I started after I switched over |
| 23:17.52 | bjorkBSD | *mill. |
| 23:18.01 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, http://gcam.js.cx |
| 23:18.08 | louipc | !! you have a CNC mill!? |
| 23:18.15 | louipc | *envy* |
| 23:18.16 | ``Erik | <-- always thought it'd be fun to design an r/c plane |
| 23:18.44 | bjorkBSD | oh shit! |
| 23:18.47 | Twingy | well, brian and I might design a larger cnc mill in our spare time using the taig |
| 23:18.50 | bjorkBSD | i just got a <bleep> |
| 23:18.52 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.04 | bjorkBSD | oh you have a TAIG! ohhh |
| 23:19.11 | bjorkBSD | that's not terribly cheap. |
| 23:19.13 | louipc | what's a taig? |
| 23:19.19 | bjorkBSD | but you can buy it in bits. |
| 23:19.31 | bjorkBSD | it's a micro-mill/lathe maker. |
| 23:19.35 | bjorkBSD | do you have a lathe as well? |
| 23:19.42 | Twingy | I had one, but I gave it away |
| 23:19.56 | Twingy | I am going to buy a real one at some point |
| 23:19.59 | bjorkBSD | funny. i don't see a lathe on my table :| |
| 23:20.00 | louipc | ooh they look like conventional machines fitted with power feed har |
| 23:20.02 | Twingy | I don't need one at the moment |
| 23:20.08 | bjorkBSD | really?! |
| 23:20.09 | Twingy | I have one at work |
| 23:20.12 | bjorkBSD | oh! |
| 23:20.16 | louipc | and I guess numeric control of course |
| 23:20.17 | bjorkBSD | ah. but of course. |
| 23:21.03 | brlcad | Twingy: seem to be doing well in Italy :) |
| 23:21.06 | Twingy | best $1800 I ever spent |
| 23:21.21 | Twingy | brlcad, yea, what's all that about? |
| 23:21.36 | brlcad | dunno, but sounds like a road trip! |
| 23:21.49 | Twingy | boat trip? |
| 23:21.57 | brlcad | woot |
| 23:22.02 | Twingy | or did you imply I should cnc mill a water proof car? |
| 23:22.13 | brlcad | a submarine |
| 23:22.15 | louipc | hehe |
| 23:22.15 | brlcad | a yellow one |
| 23:22.23 | Twingy | hrm, that might take a while :) |
| 23:22.33 | Twingy | it'd be about 10,000 parts |
| 23:22.33 | ``Erik | (someone hittin' the happy juice this evening?) |
| 23:22.35 | brlcad | build it .. "in bits" :) |
| 23:22.45 | louipc | you need a mini welder too |
| 23:22.45 | bjorkBSD | damn. i want a workshop very very badly. |
| 23:23.18 | Twingy | I haven't tried my new aluminum casting setup yet |
| 23:23.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:23.24 | bjorkBSD | yeah i can buy one at harborfreight for relatively little. |
| 23:23.31 | Twingy | I have some granite slabs and a jig with a metal trashcan filled with 250lbs of sand |
| 23:23.31 | bjorkBSD | but their lathes/mills are POSs |
| 23:23.52 | bjorkBSD | ah you're a metal worker and you have a forge and stuff? |
| 23:24.04 | Twingy | if you call melting aluminum metal working |
| 23:24.07 | Twingy | then yes |
| 23:24.11 | bjorkBSD | heheh |
| 23:24.24 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 23:24.25 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/ |
| 23:24.40 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_aluminum2.jpg |
| 23:25.06 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_block1.jpg |
| 23:25.12 | Twingy | that's what I do with soda cans |
| 23:25.14 | brlcad | that's a lot of cans |
| 23:25.20 | Twingy | and 6061 scrap |
| 23:25.26 | brlcad | ahh, cheated ;) |
| 23:25.36 | Twingy | I add 1% zinc |
| 23:25.50 | bjorkBSD | it sits on a table! |
| 23:25.50 | brlcad | for that silky smooth feeling? |
| 23:25.54 | bjorkBSD | i can have one in my kitchen :-? |
| 23:26.14 | Twingy | I can sell those blocks for $15 - $20 |
| 23:26.26 | brlcad | heh, you're asking the guy that sets off rockets that are just a couple screws short of being a pipe bomb.. ;) |
| 23:26.28 | louipc | you machined that whole block with that tiny cutter? haha |
| 23:26.32 | ``Erik | what's the fuel cost to make one? :D |
| 23:26.45 | Twingy | louipc, yep |
| 23:26.51 | ``Erik | propane high output burner, right? so a tank is pretty cheap? |
| 23:26.53 | Twingy | ``Erik, $3 in propane |
| 23:27.04 | ``Erik | coo' |
| 23:27.13 | Twingy | 1 tank does about 8 castings |
| 23:27.22 | louipc | you need to get a facemill methinks |
| 23:27.22 | brlcad | mm.. tanks |
| 23:27.48 | louipc | that's pretty cool though |
| 23:27.57 | bjorkBSD | so Twingy, have you built a tesla coil lately? :D |
| 23:28.07 | Twingy | no, just a coil gun :) |
| 23:28.16 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.28 | bjorkBSD | what made you wanna build a forge? |
| 23:28.51 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/tmp/ |
| 23:29.24 | Twingy | that was my first |
| 23:29.52 | Twingy | that charging circuit was a kodak disposable camera |
| 23:32.06 | Twingy | hehe |
| 23:32.08 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/tmp/rocket1.png |
| 23:32.11 | Twingy | priceless |
| 23:33.09 | bjorkBSD | what's nurbana? |
| 23:33.14 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:33.38 | Twingy | it's nothing more than a memory :) |
| 23:35.10 | brlcad | it was the next "rhino", left to rot after lack of feed .. and then carved up for it's meat on the open market, right? ;) |
| 23:35.41 | Twingy | that pretty much sums it up |
| 23:35.44 | bjorkBSD | heheh. |
| 23:35.51 | bjorkBSD | what's wrong with brlCad twingy? |
| 23:35.59 | bjorkBSD | it's like rhino. only ... umm. |
| 23:36.13 | Twingy | I didn't know about brl-cad in 1999 |
| 23:36.22 | bjorkBSD | that was a long long time ago. |
| 23:36.31 | ``Erik | also; brl-cad isn't exactly rocking at nurbs... |
| 23:36.39 | brlcad | nor was it as readily open to use like it is today |
| 23:36.39 | bjorkBSD | no? |
| 23:37.03 | brlcad | there's nurbs support, pretty extensive, but incomplete and slow |
| 23:37.06 | bjorkBSD | hmm it still makes people flee in horror on first contact |
| 23:37.21 | brlcad | that's a lot of the work going on this year.. to totally reimplement the nurbs support (hence all the opennurbs stuff) |
| 23:37.44 | brlcad | yeah, mged is a major wart |
| 23:38.04 | brlcad | one that can actually cure cancer, but a wart nonetheless |
| 23:38.25 | ``Erik | thermonuclear masochism device? |
| 23:39.31 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 23:44.26 | Twingy | I still vividly remember the day when Lisa announced that Wendy got the branch chief position and everyone frowned at once, haha |
| 23:44.40 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 23:46.07 | bjorkBSD | damn |
| 23:46.11 | bjorkBSD | how do i get out of jove? :( |
| 23:46.17 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:46.18 | brlcad | hah |
| 23:46.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:46.28 | bjorkBSD | i didn't even know it was here until you mentioned it. |
| 23:46.28 | ``Erik | jove--, vi++ |
| 23:46.40 | brlcad | that's the "trick" .. they've been stuck in jove for 20+years ;) |
| 23:47.06 | brlcad | try ctrl-x-c or ctrl-x ctrl-c |
| 23:47.11 | ``Erik | (seriosuly, the "search for a real editor; is emacs found? no? build jove" shit is uncool) :D |
| 23:47.35 | dtidrow_work | Twingy: some things you could build with that mill of yours: http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/photo2.htm |
| 23:47.41 | Twingy | if jove00, and vi++, then nano^=1 ? |
| 23:48.03 | Twingy | yep |
| 23:48.10 | Twingy | I have a stirling and a steam engine on my lifes todo list |
| 23:48.24 | ``Erik | what kind of steam engine? |
| 23:48.32 | ``Erik | ece reciprocal? |
| 23:48.41 | dtidrow_work | I've been to their expo, back when it and I were both still in Michigan |
| 23:48.42 | bjorkBSD | i want a machine shop :( |
| 23:48.54 | bjorkBSD | impossible! |
| 23:48.57 | bjorkBSD | are you talking about a kettle? |
| 23:49.03 | ``Erik | teh sterling engine out of soda cans was cool |
| 23:49.12 | brlcad | nope, it's a real steam engine.. a small one, but real |
| 23:49.19 | bjorkBSD | wow! how'd you get it? |
| 23:49.36 | brlcad | long time ago as a kid |
| 23:49.45 | brlcad | hobby shop had one iirc |
| 23:49.58 | ``Erik | functional steam engine... |
| 23:50.22 | dtidrow_work | they run off compressed air, too |
| 23:50.47 | brlcad | a little bit like this, but actually a little smaller and with front wheels too ;) http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/01-20L.jpg |
| 23:50.58 | ``Erik | anything with a pressure differential, actually |
| 23:51.21 | ``Erik | steam involves a state change, so there's a huge pressure differential from a fairly minor temperature change |
| 23:51.28 | ``Erik | weee, thermo |
| 23:53.34 | brlcad | here we go: http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/wid365big.jpg |
| 23:53.43 | brlcad | i thought about making a cad model of that at one point |
| 23:53.59 | brlcad | didn't want to take it apart though.. |
| 23:56.08 | brlcad | good stuff: http://www.toysteam.net/ |
| 23:56.08 | brlcad | heh, this would be cool to mill Twingy: http://www.neatstuff.net/space-robots/Steambot-ST-II.html |
| 23:56.42 | brlcad | "please feed me water.. *mauuuuwww*" |
| 23:58.15 | ``Erik | ah, a steam tractor, even |
| 23:58.31 | ``Erik | the one I saw at the exchange was a stnading engine, not a tractor :) just a boiler and piston |
| 23:58.54 | brlcad | they have one of those too |
| 23:59.02 | brlcad | the locomotive is more interesting |
| 23:59.43 | ``Erik | 8? hah |
| 23:59.47 | ``Erik | might as well be using a single core |
| 23:59.48 | ``Erik | :D |
