| 00:00.20 | Maloeran | I think I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any patch to replace the usual fp math with higher precision calculations. It might mess up file and network I/O, but that can be more easily solved than rewriting code to use GMP |
| 00:23.08 | brlcad | hem, i actually think rewriting the code to use gmp would be easier :) |
| 00:23.26 | brlcad | and gmp already uses fpu to accelerate where it can |
| 00:35.31 | ``Erik | neat http://ulysses.jpl.nasa.gov/ |
| 00:37.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/Makefile.am: pngtcl needs the zlib cppflags too |
| 00:38.29 | *** join/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:38.59 | *** join/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:39.38 | brlcad | funky |
| 00:40.14 | ``Erik | peer kicked the shit outta you, yo! |
| 00:40.50 | tofu_ | apparently |
| 00:40.53 | brlcad | indeed |
| 00:41.19 | brlcad | i think a router reset at ze lab |
| 00:41.38 | ``Erik | screen is mighty |
| 00:41.40 | brlcad | or at least along the path to my isp |
| 00:41.53 | brlcad | screen r0xers by b0xers |
| 00:42.10 | *** part/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:42.38 | brlcad | hm |
| 00:43.15 | ``Erik | and the rc config for it is so trivial, I mean, check out how simple and obvious this is... |
| 00:43.16 | ``Erik | hardstatus alwayslastline "%{b}[ %{B}%H %{b}][ %{w}%?%-Lw%?%{b}(%{W}%n*%f %t%?(%u)%?%{b})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{b}][%{B} %d/%m %{W}%C%a %{b}]" |
| 00:43.23 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 00:44.01 | Maloeran | That's worse than Itanium assembly |
| 00:44.05 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 00:44.13 | brlcad | pass that to your brainfuck compiler, see what happens |
| 00:44.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:44.45 | ``Erik | *look* |
| 00:44.47 | brlcad | looks like apache log syntax actually |
| 00:44.52 | ``Erik | there're no i/o commands |
| 00:45.01 | ``Erik | the loops are closed, so it'd be legit |
| 00:45.20 | ``Erik | I think it'd reduce to [][-][] |
| 00:45.57 | ``Erik | which'd be something like {char n=0; while(--n);} |
| 00:47.21 | Maloeran | And you won't even optimize that to avoid waiting for 'n' to loop over its numerical range? Tsk |
| 00:47.27 | ``Erik | (the optimization pass in my compiler is very very trivial right now...) |
| 00:47.46 | ``Erik | now the generic partial evaluation engine I want to put in there would actually reduce it to an empty program, I THINK |
| 00:48.49 | ``Erik | right now it compiles down to |
| 00:48.50 | ``Erik | while(*ptr){}while(*ptr){--*ptr;++*ptr;}while(*ptr){} |
| 00:49.01 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 00:49.34 | ``Erik | at least the asm is readable O:-) |
| 00:49.52 | Maloeran | I think you should tackle structured knowledge systems for AI with me instead, it's fun too |
| 00:50.17 | ``Erik | but it sounds like you're trying to reinvent 50's style ai, dude :D |
| 00:50.26 | ``Erik | take an AI course at the local uni or something O.o |
| 00:51.32 | Maloeran | I think you might have missed an aspect when I tried to explain... It doesn't seek rational solutions and output errors when conflicts occur |
| 00:51.50 | ``Erik | ok, so it's a fuzzy expert system |
| 00:52.07 | Maloeran | It's all probability based, the network of relation between entities evolve as to try to resolve any conflicting information, somehow |
| 00:52.27 | ``Erik | so 60's ai |
| 00:52.49 | ``Erik | ed was working out some probability algebra that was interesting looking a bit ago o.O |
| 00:52.49 | Maloeran | It learns by itself from any logical statements being fed to it, it isn't an "expert system" |
| 00:53.46 | Maloeran | And that's just the interface, it grows new "entities" ( nodes ) which aren't mapped to units it's being fed, as part of the pseudo-reasonning network |
| 00:54.02 | ``Erik | so just like the 70's game "animal" |
| 00:54.22 | ``Erik | 'game'... *cough*... virus... :) |
| 00:55.24 | ``Erik | it was a program that spread itself to new systems and played a game of 20 questions |
| 00:55.39 | Maloeran | I think humans think by previously assimilated relations between entities, with many fuzzy pseudo-entities emerging during the learning process |
| 00:55.40 | ``Erik | and new information was put into the program when it was stumped, which also spread |
| 00:55.52 | Maloeran | And errors, erroneous reasoning leads to creativity |
| 00:56.31 | Maloeran | Oh well, you aren't interested, I got it :) |
| 00:57.01 | ``Erik | seriously, take a good ai class, see how you feel about it after that :) |
| 00:57.15 | Maloeran | I read everything you pasted to me about AI so far |
| 00:57.33 | ``Erik | hm, I pasted very very old articles focused on a very specific problem |
| 00:58.00 | ``Erik | a class will go over a broad range of approaches and applications quickly |
| 00:58.03 | Maloeran | Yes, apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm not |
| 00:59.10 | ``Erik | <-- still thinks you're taking a pretty classic and well known approach... mebbe is not understanding you very well *shrug* |
| 00:59.54 | Maloeran | Perhaps I am, I have no idea, just not the classic approachs you pasted so far |
| 01:00.14 | ``Erik | http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/animalsrc.html |
| 01:02.28 | Maloeran | Okay, I don't think I'll be reading that assembly... :) but surely it has nothing in common with the approach above |
| 01:02.54 | Maloeran | It's designed to "understand" relations between entities to be able to put any information, statement or question within its known context |
| 01:03.56 | Maloeran | And it doesn't do that like these "expert systems", its knowledge base grows as an abitrary network of nodes, which are traversed accordingly to probabilities |
| 01:04.44 | Maloeran | Statements are assimilated trying to minimize conflicts, and questions are answered by the paths guided by probabilities ( answers may vary if re-asked ) |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: leave a note that it's known that running any of the various mged commands (e.g. |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: clicking the raytrace button many times quickly, or running rtarea on a large |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: model) that output a lot of data will hang mged (idle cpu utilization) |
| 01:07.16 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 01:14.30 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.172.177) | |
| 01:19.20 | Maloeran | Nice page Erik, amusing to read about these mainframes able to access one 36 bits word every 8 microseconds |
| 01:23.42 | Maloeran | Ah, or the "Fire" indicator on their massive printer, next to a "Extinguish" button! |
| 01:24.30 | ``Erik | computers are cool like that |
| 01:25.30 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:28.00 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365550 <=== we were comparing numbers ``Erik. |
| 01:28.34 | IriX64 | drugs do that to you :) |
| 01:30.03 | IriX64 | it's beautifull. (the picture I mean) |
| 01:30.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:30.52 | Maloeran | Ahaha, the FASTRAND had one massive drum for storage which caused it to crawl around the room during use |
| 01:31.07 | IriX64 | Gary has a nice world right? :) |
| 01:34.15 | IriX64 | should have waited and posted the whole run, you interested? |
| 01:34.27 | IriX64 | its still on the screen. |
| 01:36.21 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365561 <====if anyones interested in the actual numbers. |
| 01:37.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: don't use voidpc as it's a rather new addition to libz that likely might not be available if we're linking against a system zlib. |
| 01:43.05 | *** join/#brlcad handsome_evil (n=knoppix@203.130.205.60) | |
| 01:43.32 | handsome_evil | hello all |
| 01:43.47 | handsome_evil | i just found brl cad a minute ago |
| 01:43.57 | brlcad | hello mr evil |
| 01:44.03 | handsome_evil | i want to ask how relevant brlcad with autocad? |
| 01:44.28 | brlcad | autocad is a drafting CADD package, brl-cad is a solid modeling CAD package |
| 01:44.53 | brlcad | predominantly different domains, some functionality overlap, but highly likely not what you're hoping |
| 01:45.17 | brlcad | decent foundation to be that though, if you're a developer |
| 01:45.36 | brlcad | screenshot of the modeler in action, http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 01:46.36 | handsome_evil | umm.. if just for solid modeling i'v allready using blender |
| 01:46.56 | handsome_evil | i just wana get a 2d drafting for my presentation |
| 01:47.02 | brlcad | heh, blender is horrible for solid modeling, but a great modeler |
| 01:47.24 | handsome_evil | what is mean solid modeling is horrible?? |
| 01:47.29 | handsome_evil | the resolution?? |
| 01:48.04 | brlcad | solid modeling is an entire engineering-based approach |
| 01:48.25 | brlcad | guarantees of topology, connectivity, engineering-specific constraints and requirements |
| 01:48.39 | brlcad | blender provides no such featureset |
| 01:48.56 | brlcad | it's more in line with modeling systems like maya and softimage |
| 01:49.20 | handsome_evil | umm.. that nice, but i am not an engeneering, so i think don't need brlcad if like that |
| 01:49.23 | brlcad | whereas solid modeling system examples would be packages like unigraphics/nx, solidworks, pro/engineer, etc |
| 01:50.01 | brlcad | brl-cad will render hidden-line images ala drafting diagrams, example http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 01:50.35 | brlcad | but the package is inherintly not a drafting modeler, that would be something like qcad (there's not many open source options) |
| 01:51.50 | handsome_evil | btw i hate qcad.. |
| 01:51.58 | brlcad | hehe, don't we all |
| 02:03.57 | brlcad | handsome_evil: some more perspective.. http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 02:04.10 | brlcad | autocad is a CADD package (big oval on the left) |
| 02:04.23 | brlcad | we overlap a little in various areas |
| 02:06.28 | handsome_evil | http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png >> that very nice, may be i will try brlcad |
| 02:06.28 | handsome_evil | after download the big software i think :-D |
| 02:07.17 | brlcad | handsome_evil: for what it's worth, the tutorials on the website are *required* if you want to learn how to be productive with it |
| 02:07.31 | brlcad | and they're just an introduction |
| 02:07.53 | brlcad | in particular the http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 02:08.36 | handsome_evil | ok thank you very much brlcad |
| 02:09.56 | brlcad | no problem, feel free to stay and hang out or come back if you have any questions |
| 02:11.10 | ``Erik | irritating, I seem to be missing files |
| 02:12.53 | ``Erik | <-- scratches his chin |
| 02:13.01 | ``Erik | we should put those rt06 posters on teh website or something |
| 02:13.10 | IriX64 | didn't mean you itchy :) |
| 02:13.11 | brlcad | yup |
| 02:13.22 | brlcad | they give you back pdfs? |
| 02:13.29 | ``Erik | um, psd's |
| 02:13.29 | brlcad | or word docs or whatever |
| 02:13.33 | brlcad | ahh, nifty |
| 02:13.36 | ``Erik | but preview can convert to pdf |
| 02:13.38 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 02:13.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: irritating.. zlib only seems to provide voidpc with the latest versions of zlib, and is incompatible with the voidp type found in the older headers. conditionally declare using the new zlib's ZLIB_VERNUM. |
| 02:14.01 | ``Erik | we'd probably need to scan and post the form 1's, too |
| 02:14.19 | brlcad | as long as you have them somewhere accessible |
| 02:14.34 | brlcad | I have a file, or at least I used to, for old stuff |
| 02:15.06 | ``Erik | if ya keep the ARL-1's with the file, you dont' have to go far to find 'em :) |
| 02:15.45 | ``Erik | if it's a pdf, they can be attached as "page 2" |
| 02:15.47 | brlcad | pretty useless gov't overhead garbage baggage for the project though |
| 02:15.54 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:16.16 | brlcad | it'd matter more if it were a gov't site too |
| 02:16.32 | ``Erik | or better yet, keep copies in cvs in the web/ module |
| 02:16.37 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:16.59 | brlcad | poor neglected web module |
| 02:17.44 | brlcad | i could see a dir with them, or just tossing them up with the uploads, but it just starts a bad precedent of something else to manage that from an open source perspective is counterproductive |
| 02:17.59 | ``Erik | <-- has no problem burning sf's disk space |
| 02:18.35 | ``Erik | *shrug* not that it'd ever be challenged, heh |
| 02:18.40 | brlcad | if you have a few, then someone might ask .. "well what about theses over here" and then you have to either hunt them down, or determine they're okay, or prove it doesn't applyl, etc |
| 02:18.45 | brlcad | exactly |
| 02:18.48 | brlcad | so why bother :) |
| 02:19.08 | brlcad | is that a brainslug on your head? :) |
| 02:19.22 | ``Erik | #37 yo |
| 02:21.58 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:23.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:23.23 | ``Erik | irix photon mapped a havoc http://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/shot3.jpg |
| 02:24.03 | IriX64 | ty. |
| 02:24.36 | ``Erik | hm, a few little things... jpg is lossy, png would look better... |
| 02:24.51 | ``Erik | it looks aliased, hypersampling fixes that up |
| 02:25.08 | IriX64 | man ive been meaning to get a better screen capture tool, what would you recommend. |
| 02:25.16 | ``Erik | rt from the command line can output a .pix file, then you can use pix2png |
| 02:25.25 | brlcad | and due to the way he implemented photon mapping, if you put havoc in a box, even a big one, you can get vastly better results.. |
| 02:25.26 | ``Erik | uhhh, Grab.app? :D *duck* |
| 02:25.30 | IriX64 | ty ill try that. |
| 02:25.32 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 02:25.36 | ``Erik | or a sphere |
| 02:25.43 | ``Erik | any enclosing geometry |
| 02:26.10 | ``Erik | and, naturally, more photons means a better lookin' pic, at the cost of cpu time :) |
| 02:26.17 | brlcad | can use the "inside" command to hollow out various primitives |
| 02:26.19 | IriX64 | I did *NOT implement photon mapping by any stretch. |
| 02:26.38 | ``Erik | when I was preparing the poster images, some of 'em ran all night |
| 02:27.36 | handsome_evil | but BRL-CAD doesn't support 2d drating and not possible to make blue print isn't it?? |
| 02:27.52 | handsome_evil | *drafting |
| 02:27.52 | ``Erik | heh, no, twingy implemented the photon mapping... he also coded up adrt and the path tracing used to generate http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 02:27.55 | brlcad | rise alone, even being a pig, make adrt worth keeping around |
| 02:28.18 | brlcad | at least until someone one-ups the quality possible |
| 02:28.27 | ``Erik | <-- wonders if the hummer animation can be put somewhere o.O |
| 02:28.36 | IriX64 | 5 *days? |
| 02:28.43 | brlcad | handsome_evil: there is some 2D drafting support, but worse than qcad from a GUI perspective |
| 02:28.44 | ``Erik | yes |
| 02:28.49 | ``Erik | on a small cluster |
| 02:29.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: it's even been form 1'd even though it's not an army model |
| 02:30.10 | ``Erik | heh, irix, what kinda hw are you using? |
| 02:30.13 | brlcad | ``Erik: you have access to the ftp.brlcad.org web root, /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org |
| 02:30.20 | IriX64 | cheap :) |
| 02:30.39 | brlcad | there's a /tmp, images, and datafiles in there that are not synchronized up |
| 02:30.50 | brlcad | brlcad.org does sync down though |
| 02:31.15 | brlcad | (thinking of changing that soon) |
| 02:31.24 | handsome_evil | any one here have try gcad??? |
| 02:31.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:32.02 | brlcad | good luck with that |
| 02:32.59 | ``Erik | <-- not in the brlcad or www groups |
| 02:33.10 | brlcad | huh? |
| 02:33.21 | IriX64 | ``Erik i just looked at your post again, you are right, needs clarity ill see what i can do about it not that i send a whole lot of oix, but still. |
| 02:33.28 | brlcad | you're in brlcad group |
| 02:33.33 | IriX64 | err pix too. |
| 02:33.41 | ``Erik | woops, sorry |
| 02:33.41 | brlcad | which gets you sudo access to www group |
| 02:33.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:33.55 | brlcad | sudo -u www for web actions |
| 02:35.04 | louipc | hey new people awesome |
| 02:35.16 | brlcad | IriX64: it would be a great (and relatively straight-forward) exercise to build a big box or sphere around havoc, put a light inside and render with photon mapping |
| 02:35.18 | ``Erik | irix: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/humvee3.png |
| 02:35.59 | IriX64 | brlcad: you have experience on me, i'm just a tinkerer. |
| 02:36.16 | brlcad | that's why I said it'd be a great exercise |
| 02:36.33 | brlcad | you should be able to do that after like two tutorials in the mged intro |
| 02:36.50 | ``Erik | a, a bigger one than at sf... http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png |
| 02:36.54 | IriX64 | ``Erik beautifull but why the canary? :) |
| 02:36.57 | brlcad | or even just playing with "make box arb" with some booleans :) |
| 02:37.16 | ``Erik | 'canary'? |
| 02:37.19 | IriX64 | Ill learn.. eventually. |
| 02:37.26 | IriX64 | color yellow? |
| 02:37.36 | ``Erik | uh, that's a beige, actually |
| 02:37.43 | brlcad | doesn't get much more basic than making a hollow box ;) |
| 02:37.43 | ``Erik | the kinda beige they paint those for desert use |
| 02:38.01 | brlcad | I'd send that out to the list as a nice tutorial if you got a picture from it |
| 02:38.27 | handsome_evil | http://www.graphiteone-cad.com/en/index.htm >> nice cad for presentation, but seem have no material supported..... :( |
| 02:38.44 | brlcad | make sph sph? :) |
| 02:38.55 | ``Erik | yeah, it's hard for me |
| 02:39.02 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:39.23 | IriX64 | ``Erik that last is a nice vehicle, lets pray we don't have to use it. |
| 02:39.28 | louipc | how'd you get the trees and grass and such? |
| 02:39.40 | brlcad | handsome_evil: I don't generally promote or follow the "free but not open source" products out there, we're an open source project looking for more involvement ;) |
| 02:40.07 | ``Erik | louipc: I think he used blender scripts? each blade of grass is modeled |
| 02:40.24 | louipc | ah neat |
| 02:40.25 | brlcad | there's a procedural vegitation generator in brl-cad, but yeah, think he used a script found elsewhere |
| 02:41.01 | handsome_evil | brlcad, you mean graphiteone-cad not opensource?? |
| 02:41.03 | ``Erik | (and irix, the vehicle is being usd right now) |
| 02:42.02 | handsome_evil | no problem for me... just need to find a job with free software :-D |
| 02:42.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add brep.h to the dist... |
| 02:42.52 | brlcad | handsome_evil: where do you see it's open source? |
| 02:43.17 | handsome_evil | no i am not see :-D |
| 02:43.24 | handsome_evil | just chek if that free for download |
| 02:43.57 | brlcad | which is my point, there are a handful that are "free" like them.. I mostly ignore them ;) |
| 02:44.13 | brlcad | I'm much more interested in improving brl-cad |
| 02:44.20 | brlcad | so that it can one day replace autocad ;) |
| 02:44.29 | louipc | woohoo |
| 02:44.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:44.58 | handsome_evil | umm.. you are so idealism |
| 02:45.09 | brlcad | not really, more pragmatic |
| 02:45.19 | brlcad | it doesn't benefit the cad industry to support them |
| 02:45.35 | brlcad | we all benefit by unifying efforts towards a project/goal |
| 02:45.40 | handsome_evil | a) You must use the Licensed Software only for either private, educational or research, but not for commercial usage. |
| 02:45.48 | louipc | what bothers me most is proprietary formats |
| 02:45.52 | handsome_evil | ohh..... god... |
| 02:45.58 | brlcad | brl-cad's got the most headway of any project by a very long ways (in the CAD domain at least) |
| 02:46.22 | brlcad | heh, you wanted commercial usage, didn't you ;) |
| 02:46.32 | handsome_evil | that a wonderfull dream, as my dream |
| 02:47.04 | brlcad | even with our 20+ year lead, there's still massive ways to go to be functionally competitive |
| 02:47.04 | handsome_evil | brcad, yes i do |
| 02:47.04 | handsome_evil | :( |
| 02:47.07 | handsome_evil | huh... i am a dead man |
| 02:47.32 | brlcad | learn brl-cad, use rtedge to generate the line drawings, annotate using gimp ;) |
| 02:47.50 | louipc | I know first hand that a lot of companies just pirate software |
| 02:48.23 | handsome_evil | no one can accept drafter job with no 2d drafting presentation here.. |
| 02:48.54 | brlcad | you said you tried qcad? |
| 02:49.05 | brlcad | it's at least "functional" albeit mildly painful |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | i just see of qcad |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | not realy try |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | but bad interface |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | may be i must using qcad now |
| 02:51.23 | brlcad | qcad is about "as good as it gets" for open source -- it's not pretty but it should do the job |
| 02:51.31 | handsome_evil | if using the gimp for 2d drafting, people will be doubt about the scale.. |
| 02:51.31 | handsome_evil | how ever i still interest to learn brlcad now |
| 02:51.34 | louipc | handsome_evil: it's at least as good as solidworks' dwgeditor :P |
| 02:52.08 | brlcad | hmm.. maybe solidworks is just rewrapping qcad... hmmm! |
| 02:52.39 | louipc | hmm |
| 02:52.53 | brlcad | there was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off since |
| 02:53.26 | IriX64 | did the door hit them in the arse on the way out ;) |
| 02:53.38 | brlcad | we have a (lame) sketch editor that is used for editing sketch primtives, that could easily invoke qcad instead |
| 02:53.45 | louipc | oh wow, wonder what came of that |
| 02:54.13 | handsome_evil | ??? brl-cad support qcad?? |
| 02:54.19 | Twingy | brlcad, I modified the captcha code and no more spammers, http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/profile.php?mode=register&sid=b748de68a4c350844d1026bdc4a6ec99 |
| 02:54.32 | brlcad | Twingy: swank |
| 02:54.36 | louipc | cool |
| 02:54.47 | brlcad | handsome_evil: I don't really care about them, but if you're looking for drafting, they do that better than we do |
| 02:55.18 | brlcad | i've got no problems being open about our weaknesses |
| 02:55.28 | handsome_evil | brlcad: there was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off since >> i confused with this sentence |
| 02:56.03 | handsome_evil | what is mean integrating?? |
| 02:56.03 | brlcad | there was an individual here in the channel a while ago that wanted drafting features similar to what you want |
| 02:56.06 | IriX64 | Twingy... should add to that "and also any applicable laws where *you live" |
| 02:56.17 | brlcad | integrating: making the two work together cleanly |
| 02:56.29 | Twingy | IriX64, for what purpose? |
| 02:56.37 | handsome_evil | oh.. i see |
| 02:56.41 | IriX64 | cover as many bases as possible. |
| 02:56.49 | Twingy | huh? |
| 02:57.03 | IriX64 | whats legal here may be illegal there and vice vers. |
| 02:57.06 | brlcad | so if you wanted drafting, you would get a (clean) subset of qcad .. if you wanted solid modeling, or use that drafting sketch in a solid model, you'd have brl-cad |
| 02:57.53 | brlcad | IriX64: that intro is required in the US |
| 02:58.14 | IriX64 | doesn't mean you can't add to it. or does it? |
| 02:58.38 | brlcad | it's a website, you could do anything to it |
| 02:58.47 | brlcad | put little floating penis's if you wanted |
| 02:59.35 | brlcad | as the host of a public forum on the web, though, if you want to protect your arse from legal action, you have to at least ask if they're underage |
| 02:59.52 | brlcad | it only matters really if they click the second link |
| 03:00.11 | IriX64 | of course, we had one site here wanting photcopies of your drivers licence. |
| 03:00.46 | IriX64 | little more overhead but it could pay off. |
| 03:00.46 | brlcad | Twingy: what exactly did you modify? just a different pattern? |
| 03:01.22 | Twingy | different noise pattern and image size |
| 03:01.41 | brlcad | any modification that's "custom" is pretty sufficient to ward off the spammers presuming there's not a captcha like that elsewhere |
| 03:01.42 | Twingy | to add special characters would require working knowledge of the gzip algorithm |
| 03:03.41 | brlcad | after you get some users and spammer attempts, i'd be curious to know how many get through |
| 03:04.32 | brlcad | some should still get through, as they are humans with that as some sort of day job from what I have seen |
| 03:05.26 | brlcad | we get maybe 2-4 a month now on bz's (with hundreds of attempts per day) |
| 03:05.38 | Maloeran | Humans reading and typing captcha all day long, that seems like a productive existence to benefit humanity... |
| 03:06.03 | brlcad | bz's has a special additional input box that asks .. "what's the name of this game?" |
| 03:06.37 | ``Erik | ehehehe kinda like lisp.paste.org's captcha? "what language is this pastebin written in?" with the answer right there? :D |
| 03:06.41 | brlcad | I'd be really impressed if someone automated a response that can correctly answer that |
| 03:06.50 | ``Erik | er |
| 03:06.53 | ``Erik | paste.lisp.org rather |
| 03:07.05 | brlcad | does wonders to stop the spam |
| 03:07.10 | Maloeran | Just wait for this AI to have a larger knowledge base, to put any question into its right context... :) |
| 03:07.20 | brlcad | but alas they still make it through, which leads be to believe they are people |
| 03:07.55 | brlcad | i've seen some sites with things like "what is the number on [this] page?" that you have to go to and hunt for |
| 03:08.21 | ``Erik | man, I remember shit like that on video games as piracy protection |
| 03:08.23 | brlcad | as it is, you'd be surprised how many people actually get "what's the name of this game?" wrong... ;-) |
| 03:08.35 | Maloeran | Ah yes Erik, that was horrible! |
| 03:08.39 | ``Erik | battle zone! uh... flag... |
| 03:08.59 | brlcad | if the answer has a bz or flag anywhere in the answer, it lets you by |
| 03:08.59 | ``Erik | what's the third word of the second paragraph on page 44? |
| 03:09.01 | Maloeran | It was very easy to fix generally though, just a single jcc opcode |
| 03:09.01 | ``Erik | "the" |
| 03:09.26 | brlcad | yet every month about two people e-mail saying they don't know what to put there (in kiddie lingo) |
| 03:09.48 | ``Erik | at least with pirates, it was semi-interesting... "what month was the silver train in vera cruz in 1640?" |
| 03:11.07 | IriX64 | jcc? |
| 03:11.19 | Maloeran | Any conditional jump, jxx if you prefer |
| 03:11.25 | brlcad | "Do girls really have cooties?" |
| 03:11.43 | IriX64 | heh like jc jnc jnz etc? |
| 03:11.45 | brlcad | "All politicians are: a) hard-working, b) honest, or c) on the public payroll" - the answer to which is c). |
| 03:11.52 | Maloeran | Right, IriX64 |
| 03:11.59 | IriX64 | ty |
| 03:13.38 | IriX64 | bout to try this whole pix2png thing. |
| 03:14.15 | IriX64 | pix-png i mean. |
| 03:14.35 | ``Erik | mal: have you seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OISC |
| 03:15.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: define void if it's not so we don't bail out, even though this version of tcl will be disappearing soon |
| 03:16.02 | Maloeran | Indirectly I did, Erik, yes |
| 03:16.33 | Maloeran | The program is entirely stored in the data instead, which... is pretty much the same |
| 03:17.15 | Maloeran | You could say that processors only execute one instruction, which is to fetch the next sequence of bytes and act upon its value. Oh well |
| 03:23.41 | Twingy | brlcad, check out my captcha now, added a pattern |
| 03:24.09 | Twingy | argyle type deal |
| 03:24.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: also define const just so we don't fail compilation |
| 03:24.31 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:25.00 | brlcad | confirmation code.. XXXXXXX8WWS3V |
| 03:25.05 | Twingy | hehe |
| 03:25.29 | Twingy | you'd have to be kinda retarded to do that :) |
| 03:26.10 | brlcad | next to animate it! |
| 03:26.18 | brlcad | little bouncing gif |
| 03:26.32 | Twingy | path traced objects |
| 03:26.37 | brlcad | a spinning beachball |
| 03:26.51 | brlcad | floating penis's |
| 03:26.54 | Twingy | YMCA guys spelling out captchas |
| 03:26.57 | Maloeran | Multiple overlapping transparent png pictures and each reveal a piece of character! |
| 03:27.03 | Twingy | with floating penis's |
| 03:27.08 | Twingy | that'd be super gay |
| 03:27.08 | Maloeran | Plus, you will filter out all IE users with broken png support |
| 03:27.12 | brlcad | in chaps |
| 03:27.35 | Twingy | yes, don't forget the chaps |
| 03:27.35 | Twingy | and indian head dress |
| 03:27.39 | Twingy | and peanut' buttah' jelly time guys in the back ground |
| 03:28.08 | brlcad | and hopping chocolate eggs |
| 03:28.27 | brlcad | being eaten by badgers |
| 03:28.28 | Twingy | with emit brown from back to the feature for good measure |
| 03:28.36 | Twingy | *future |
| 03:29.35 | Twingy | followed by a partial differential equation they have to solve in 3 seconds |
| 03:30.09 | Twingy | but it's presented as a jumbogram |
| 03:30.14 | Twingy | jumblegram rather |
| 03:30.36 | Twingy | as long as it's not overly complicated it should work just fine |
| 03:31.01 | louipc | hahah |
| 03:31.06 | Twingy | 10:30, it's running time, bbl |
| 03:50.06 | IriX64 | supposed to keel when you see that :) |
| 03:50.12 | IriX64 | kneel too. |
| 03:50.40 | Maloeran | And this was translated, Elizabeth II holds the copyright on french speaking pages of the Quebec government in Canada |
| 03:51.47 | IriX64 | really? |
| 03:51.56 | IriX64 | how far back are you going? |
| 03:52.45 | Maloeran | Hum? I'm not following |
| 03:53.01 | IriX64 | how old are these documents? |
| 03:53.09 | Maloeran | Very recent |
| 03:53.20 | IriX64 | and they still add that? |
| 03:54.03 | Maloeran | I never saw this before, apparently they still do |
| 04:06.32 | louipc | They're still part of Canada however much they complain. |
| 04:07.19 | Maloeran | I'm fine with that, I'm less fine with the queen of England holding copyright on all government publications |
| 04:08.02 | louipc | I don't know why we don't shrug her off already |
| 04:09.11 | louipc | She keeps someone in charge here called the Governor General, who appoints the Prime Minister |
| 04:09.28 | louipc | it's more of a useless ceremonial thing |
| 04:11.33 | IriX64 | Maloeran: Tell them they have to read every line :) |
| 04:12.42 | IriX64 | louipc did you get it to compile? |
| 04:12.55 | IriX64 | i was away for a bit. |
| 04:12.57 | louipc | yep, and install |
| 04:13.11 | IriX64 | does it run well on your system? |
| 04:13.33 | louipc | IriX64: haven't tested it much, but I ran into a problem with archer |
| 04:13.43 | IriX64 | btw your os being? |
| 04:13.48 | louipc | linux |
| 04:14.06 | IriX64 | mged performs? |
| 04:14.07 | louipc | I'm making packages for as much stuff in other/ as I can |
| 04:14.39 | louipc | mged works enough.. the help manual doesn't come up still I have to figure that out |
| 04:14.51 | louipc | something to do with $mged_browser something |
| 04:14.56 | IriX64 | there are docs in share i think. |
| 04:14.59 | Maloeran | louipc, is archer complaining about some BLT thing? |
| 04:15.27 | Maloeran | I just wanted to confirm as I encountered what I guess is the same problem |
| 04:15.43 | louipc | Maloeran: I didn't get that far it was one of the other TCL extensions though |
| 04:16.13 | louipc | I think... could have been blt |
| 04:16.34 | IriX64 | try it for him louipc ill do the same. |
| 04:18.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365701 < === problem here. |
| 04:18.23 | louipc | nope, just can't find itcl.tcl just a path thing I think |
| 04:18.55 | IriX64 | the archer window came up though but all greyed out |
| 04:19.47 | brlcad | mged_browser is the problem, it doesn't search very hard for an html viewer |
| 04:20.14 | brlcad | known issue, just nobody has gotten to fixing it yet |
| 04:20.21 | IriX64 | Maloeran: I know little flying penis's about tcl ;) |
| 04:20.23 | brlcad | only affects some platforms |
| 04:20.30 | IriX64 | ty |
| 04:20.39 | louipc | brlcad: that's my first target after packages ;) |
| 04:20.59 | brlcad | cool :) |
| 04:23.35 | Twingy | back |
| 04:27.09 | IriX64 | startup script? Is there a standard name for a startup tcl script? |
| 04:28.36 | louipc | that error message doesn't tell much hm |
| 04:28.51 | IriX64 | gives a line number.... |
| 04:29.47 | IriX64 | i can't do much with it but the people who know prolly can. |
| 04:30.10 | brlcad | .mgedrc? |
| 04:30.24 | IriX64 | ? |
| 04:30.37 | IriX64 | thats the startup script? |
| 04:30.40 | brlcad | ooh, you're trying to run archer |
| 04:30.41 | brlcad | never mind |
| 04:30.51 | IriX64 | heh ty |
| 04:31.18 | brlcad | i did say earlier that archer needs a bit of compilation tweaking to get working, it's not going to work out of the box on any system at the moment |
| 04:31.37 | brlcad | it's not even been officially announced as ready to use |
| 04:32.05 | IriX64 | was just trying to help Maloeran. |
| 04:32.09 | louipc | oh is archer the next GUI you mentioned? |
| 04:32.24 | brlcad | louipc: no it's not, but it's somewhere between the two |
| 04:32.35 | louipc | ah alright |
| 04:32.44 | brlcad | has some really good ideas, and if anything shows what mged could be like |
| 04:34.24 | brlcad | you're more than welcome to work on archer, heck I'll give anyone commit access if they're serious about working on it |
| 04:35.14 | brlcad | i'm just not going to help much since it's on the todo list to fix it later already, and I'm trying to push a release out with different updates ;) |
| 04:35.25 | brlcad | other than to say "good luck with that" =) |
| 04:35.35 | louipc | :D |
| 06:11.10 | IriX64 | gcc 4.1.1 also qualifies as lots and lots of code :) |
| 06:11.27 | IriX64 | to compile I mean. |
| 06:18.53 | IriX64 | you think i would have learned my lesson about the latest and greatest thing by now :) |
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| 14:36.52 | Maloeran | Ah! They finally received the memory for the 8 cores box |
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| 17:45.25 | ``Erik | mrph. |
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| 18:45.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: did you modify any of the apache modules, or apache, or libapr or something yesterday? |
| 18:45.48 | brlcad | have massive httpd woes going on atm |
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| 19:15.47 | clock_ | brlcad: do you ride snowboard? |
| 19:17.57 | ``Erik | I don't think so, what woes? |
| 19:18.13 | ``Erik | show me where the breakage exhibits and I'll fix o.O |
| 19:19.21 | ``Erik | <-- was trying to be careful not to touch web and bzflag related stuff... was avoiding the db's until noticing they're totally unused... |
| 19:22.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: Remove ON_BREP conditional, rely on _cplusplus instead |
| 19:32.10 | brlcad | clock_: never tried |
| 19:34.54 | ``Erik | ah, creating an account seems to do it |
| 19:35.18 | *** part/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.191) | |
| 19:54.47 | brlcad | ``Erik: it looks like anything via php that tries to kick off an e-mail |
| 19:56.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/emailtest.php this will consistently crash it |
| 19:59.07 | ``Erik | okie, thnx |
| 20:04.10 | brlcad | I believe that same crash happens when php || httpd are compiled sans -pthread |
| 20:04.27 | brlcad | some wierd interaction goes on |
| 20:31.36 | ``Erik | uhhhhh |
| 20:35.19 | brlcad | fyi, if you hadn't noticed already, there are scripts running that watch and talk to apache to ensure that it's running and that a botnet hasn't somehow attached -- if you kill it without a restart, it'll get restarted on it's own within a minute or two |
| 20:35.38 | brlcad | which is just to say that if you need it to go down and stay down, you'll have to turn off the script |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | (i'll do it if you need that) |
| 20:36.45 | ``Erik | I've been bouncing it pretty quick... butseperate versions of apache were trying to run at the same time (I think) |
| 20:40.48 | ``Erik | damn this is an old fbsd, I'm forgettin' if the gotchas have changed, heh |
| 20:40.56 | Maloeran | Hum, let's try a hackish manual installation |
| 20:41.42 | Maloeran | new box, that is |
| 20:44.48 | ``Erik | well, yeah, obviously |
| 20:44.57 | ``Erik | but I forget which gotchas went away and which were introduced after 512 |
| 20:44.58 | ``Erik | 521 |
| 20:48.13 | brlcad | from ports perspective, -pthread is the one that I have to watch for and hand-tweak |
| 20:48.43 | brlcad | iirc apache's configure actually ignores the flags and does it's own thing so you might have to abort and hand-tweak |
| 20:54.13 | brlcad | yes, I'd love to upgrade |
| 20:54.28 | brlcad | if I ever take a road trip down south, I might do it ;) |
| 20:54.53 | brlcad | if I didn't have such a sweet deal on bandwidth, I'd get a second server with 6.2 and just migrate |
| 20:56.01 | brlcad | but their current plans only offer a third of the bandwidth I currently get and a few bucks more expensive to boot |
| 20:56.04 | ``Erik | it's not that far away, it's just down in man-asses, va, right? |
| 20:56.10 | brlcad | don't care about the money, but the bandwidth is teh suck |
| 20:56.25 | brlcad | heh, va?? what gave you that idea? |
| 20:56.39 | ``Erik | reverse lookup? |
| 20:56.52 | brlcad | out on the pan handle |
| 20:57.07 | brlcad | soaking up ze rays |
| 20:57.57 | brlcad | any luck with that backtrace? when I tried, it was mostly useless garbage |
| 20:58.03 | ``Erik | garbage, but mentioned apr |
| 20:58.10 | ``Erik | so I fixed up a new apr to shove in |
| 20:59.33 | ``Erik | ah, woops, wrong #, was lookin' at my dns server, hurrrr |
| 21:00.18 | brlcad | coupled with some 5.2 pthread bad behavior |
| 21:03.38 | brlcad | yeah, I have a similar bug in there with the php folks |
| 21:03.49 | brlcad | I think I let it close after they made "some" attempt at a fix |
| 21:07.23 | ``Erik | what the holy crap did they do |
| 21:07.34 | brlcad | http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=37120 |
| 21:08.32 | brlcad | so yeah, still a php bug.. but related to pthread misbehavior on that apr subprocess |
| 21:09.14 | brlcad | getting that trace was a bitch |
| 21:09.43 | brlcad | what version is in ports now? |
| 21:10.05 | ``Erik | of what, apache? 2.2.4 |
| 21:12.25 | brlcad | php |
| 21:12.42 | ``Erik | 5.2.1 I think |
| 21:13.08 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:15.36 | ``Erik | did you hook dan up with his latest brl-cad issue? |
| 21:16.17 | brlcad | i think I fixed that yesterday |
| 21:16.33 | ``Erik | hm, he sent it an hour ago |
| 21:16.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:17.24 | brlcad | i'll look again, but trying not to get distracted too far from auto_path bits as that is going to be a big change that'll impact him too |
| 21:32.22 | ``Erik | hrm, apache and php5 have both been rebuild with the pthread modification... |
| 21:32.28 | ``Erik | still does it... |
| 21:33.28 | ``Erik | what's the watcher script? |
| 21:36.29 | ``Erik | ah, ya already turned it off |
| 21:39.59 | ``Erik | screw it |
| 21:40.07 | ``Erik | I backed out the changes, it's not throwing sig6 anymore |
| 21:43.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366733 < === Maloeran, this is mine :) |
| 21:45.18 | ``Erik | just one? |
| 21:46.05 | Maloeran | The real question is how well the 1066mhz memory bus will cope with the 8 cores, they still got 4mb of L2 cache each |
| 21:48.12 | archivist | 386's should be enough |
| 21:48.46 | ``Erik | well, ya want the machines fast enough that the link between 'em has some penalty associated... |
| 21:48.54 | louipc | what's with openNURBS wanting your email to download? |
| 21:50.53 | IriX64 | this ones data because its an unrecognized operand, so we'll put it in the data cache as opposed to the instruction cache. |
| 21:50.54 | Maloeran | Erik, amusingly, 1066mhz/8 is about the memory bus that early Pentium had |
| 21:51.10 | Maloeran | I can only hope that each core is not going to access ram as intensively, with the 4mb cache... or performance is going to be truly pathetic |
| 21:55.11 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366744 <=== anybody know what this is trying to tell me, I'm not familiar with such runtime errors. |
| 22:00.11 | Maloeran | That errno is Connection reset by peer |
| 22:00.37 | IriX64 | Maloeran, mine? |
| 22:01.33 | IriX64 | happened again. |
| 22:01.49 | IriX64 | trying to map m35. |
| 22:04.11 | IriX64 | started from scratch, lets see if it can do a normal view. |
| 22:21.49 | IriX64 | its not me, does it everytime. |
| 22:26.21 | IriX64 | worms eye view of ktank, nice :) |
| 22:27.07 | IriX64 | you people should make that a standard view, worm's eye view, birds eye view,... |
| 22:34.20 | brlcad | ``Erik: turned what off? |
| 22:35.00 | brlcad | i'm impressed that you could actually back that far out..... |
| 22:36.07 | brlcad | louipc: my guess is that, like most companies, they *really* want a bean count of how many real unique downloads there are and the numbers make managers happy |
| 22:37.54 | brlcad | IriX64: does the framebuffer close, remain partially rendered, or are you closing the window? |
| 22:46.04 | IriX64 | just prints that error, does not even attempt to render it and says raytrace complete. |
| 22:46.20 | IriX64 | all windows remain open. |
| 22:46.38 | IriX64 | but terra.g crashes mged working on that now. |
| 22:47.02 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366802 whats wrong with this, keeps saying expected expression before if. |
| 22:51.28 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366808 << this is the error message *before i started fooling around. |
| 22:52.43 | brlcad | you have a typo on line 5 |
| 22:52.48 | brlcad | close the bu_log |
| 22:54.06 | IriX64 | must be blind i dont see it. |
| 22:54.47 | IriX64 | besides my compiler points me at the if.... |
| 22:55.42 | brlcad | look hard |
| 22:55.45 | brlcad | two characters missing |
| 22:58.14 | IriX64 | bu_log("BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE failed file %s, line %d\n",__FILE__,__LINE__); |
| 22:58.18 | IriX64 | where? |
| 23:01.50 | IriX64 | #define printx("In file %s at line%d \n",__FILE__,__LINE__); |
| 23:01.57 | IriX64 | this i use too. |
| 23:03.37 | IriX64 | beware __FUNCTION__ not all compilers are created equeal :) |
| 23:04.25 | IriX64 | can use #ifndef __FUNCTION__ #define __FUNCTION__ __LINE__ |
| 23:05.11 | brlcad | that's not what you put in the pastebin |
| 23:05.20 | brlcad | so perhaps just the pastebin is wrong |
| 23:05.46 | IriX64 | man im looking at it |
| 23:05.55 | brlcad | pastebin is missing ); |
| 23:06.25 | IriX64 | ahhh ic its there thouhg in the file, i must have missed with the mouse. |
| 23:06.46 | IriX64 | soirry for the confusion. |
| 23:11.22 | IriX64 | is BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE a function or a macro? |
| 23:11.36 | IriX64 | gotta be a macro, sorry. |
| 23:14.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: seems other versions in the 1.2 line also have voidpc |
| 23:33.21 | IriX64 | s/__FILE__ for last ocuurence of __LINE__ :( (goof) |
| 23:37.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: updating the timestamp seems to cause an empty include/brlcad_config.h.in under at least some other versions of autoconf/autoheader so disable it for now until the reason can be determined. |
| 23:38.19 | IriX64 | where did you hide BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE? |
| 23:39.37 | brlcad | include/bu.h |
| 23:39.45 | IriX64 | ty |
| 23:42.51 | IriX64 | that signature, has it ever been changed since the databases were designed? |
| 23:51.43 | IriX64 | thats not whats crashing mged. |
| 23:54.19 | IriX64 | mapped file open failed everytime i browse geometry, when i e something it crashes. |
