| 00:22.18 | Maloeran | Please cvs commit when done hax0ring the c0dez, Erik :) |
| 00:43.52 | deltazap | alright, i think it's about time that i came out of idling and introduced myself you you all :P |
| 00:45.11 | brlcad | howdy deltazap |
| 00:45.23 | brlcad | feel free to lurk as long as you like ;) |
| 00:45.26 | deltazap | hah |
| 00:45.54 | brlcad | kudos on the name ;) |
| 00:46.06 | brlcad | even if you do spell it wrong :D |
| 00:46.13 | deltazap | my normal name was taken |
| 00:46.57 | deltazap | :O |
| 00:47.05 | deltazap | it's phonetically correct :P |
| 00:47.12 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 00:47.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:47.49 | deltazap | i'm an MechE at the University of South Florida |
| 00:48.06 | brlcad | ahh, fun |
| 00:48.13 | brlcad | party school, eh? :) |
| 00:48.25 | deltazap | i started working with a robotics group about 2 weeks ago and, surprise!, they don't have anything for cad software |
| 00:48.34 | deltazap | more like farm school :P |
| 00:48.44 | brlcad | ahh |
| 00:48.54 | deltazap | you must have us confused with FSU or UF |
| 00:48.57 | brlcad | i just associate all things florida with a party |
| 00:49.02 | deltazap | haha |
| 00:49.42 | brlcad | probably because i'm usually in miami or panama city or eglin .. good stuff |
| 00:50.14 | deltazap | i'm originally from the melbourne area, just south of Cape Canaveral |
| 00:50.51 | deltazap | the panhandle isn't as nice as central florida from what i hear |
| 00:51.30 | brlcad | yeah, it's not |
| 00:52.15 | deltazap | so, i was on a quest for (useable) cad software for the mac when i came across brl cad |
| 00:52.51 | brlcad | well you should be forewarned that depending on your (pre)conceptions of CAD, this may or may not be what you're looking for |
| 00:53.32 | deltazap | yeah, i've inched into it a bit, backed off, looked at it a bit more |
| 00:53.40 | brlcad | we're by far the best/only open source solid modeling CAD software in production use, decades of development invested, but we don't do it all by a long shot |
| 00:54.14 | brlcad | we're specifically short on capable developers if you know of any ;) |
| 00:54.15 | deltazap | it's interesting how brl cad approaches the problem |
| 00:54.56 | brlcad | I presume you've read the Overview and the Industry Diagram, perhaps the Intro to MGED as well? |
| 00:55.14 | deltazap | heh, don't get to stick my head outside of our engineering labs long enough to talk to many people |
| 00:55.17 | deltazap | yeah, i have |
| 00:57.22 | brlcad | the industry diagram in particular should give a sense for how we currently fit into the big picture -- e.g. AutoCAD is CADD software and our overlap with them is rather limited, similarly BRL-CAD has limited CAM facilities other than basic modeling, representation, and conversion support |
| 00:58.34 | brlcad | but if solid modeling is your need, performing analyses, computing metrics like weight and volumes, or programmatic purposes, geometry engine representations, data manipulations, CSG implicity geometry .. then you're golden ;) |
| 00:59.03 | brlcad | what are you looking to do? |
| 01:01.11 | deltazap | right now, just modeling so that i can show people my designs |
| 01:01.47 | deltazap | something just to record designs since the lab has nothing at all |
| 01:01.56 | brlcad | got it |
| 01:02.08 | brlcad | for that, the mged tutorials are going to be essential |
| 01:02.45 | brlcad | mged has a lot of good aspects like a powerful command line, but user-friendly it is not, nor is it a discoverable interface |
| 01:03.35 | brlcad | a known limitation that is being worked on, but a limitation regardless that requires lots of experience and expert knowledge to utilize effectively |
| 01:04.28 | brlcad | once you do master it, our best modelers can generally be just as proficient at most tasks as they are in other CAD systems, even faster at doing some things, but it takes a while to get to that point |
| 01:05.59 | brlcad | but once you do, things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png do become possible |
| 01:07.07 | deltazap | holy smokes! |
| 01:13.01 | deltazap | i'm used to command line interfaces |
| 01:13.33 | deltazap | unlike most mech e's, i have quite a bit of computer experience :P |
| 01:14.58 | Maloeran | Very nice brlcad, how come I don't have access to these models ;) |
| 01:15.13 | brlcad | Maloeran: :) |
| 01:15.40 | brlcad | Maloeran: you have access to some of those, and some considerably better |
| 01:16.53 | Maloeran | I do? The only real engineering model I have around is truck_bots, though I didn't look very far |
| 01:17.06 | brlcad | you just don't know who to ask, or what exactly to ask for .. |
| 01:17.24 | brlcad | none of the best models are public releasable |
| 01:17.44 | brlcad | even that model isn't, but a picture of it is ;) |
| 01:19.33 | ``Erik | mal: I commited as I was doing it. that's the way to do it |
| 01:20.39 | ``Erik | *look* oh yeah, the model brlcad pasted ain't public release, that the image is public release has caused issues recently |
| 01:21.23 | ``Erik | mal: I fixed the log2 check issue and made the rays per second a little more readable... |
| 01:21.24 | Maloeran | Yes, one could perhaps guess where the fuel tanks are, and the ammo |
| 01:21.45 | Maloeran | I didn't receive email notification about these changes, strange |
| 01:22.05 | ``Erik | heh, one could look at public release photographs of the vehicle and figure that out... but some people are stupid |
| 01:22.57 | ``Erik | I got loads of python errors when I commited |
| 01:23.07 | ``Erik | which I assume is the mail agent |
| 01:23.15 | Maloeran | cool. |
| 01:23.53 | ``Erik | and I ran around showing the current rfdemo to anyone who might give half a flying fuck heheheh :D |
| 01:23.59 | ``Erik | that thing is just smokin', dude |
| 01:24.18 | Maloeran | Thanks :) |
| 01:24.41 | ``Erik | on the quad opteron running fbsd, a steady 30fps at 1024x768 |
| 01:25.02 | ``Erik | on the octo-opteron running linux, it bounced between 25 and 40 fps erratically, mostly staying around 35fps |
| 01:25.27 | Maloeran | With or without transparency? |
| 01:25.48 | Maloeran | I never remember what I leave as default for rfdemo when I commit, toggling a lot |
| 01:25.51 | ``Erik | without |
| 01:26.04 | ``Erik | 10fps on the 12 core itanium running linux |
| 01:26.05 | Maloeran | Ah. It's 80fps in 1024x78 on my 8 cores |
| 01:26.11 | ``Erik | 5fps on a dual core g5 running osX.4 |
| 01:26.31 | brlcad | ``Erik: fortunately, even that particular image is getting published in a book, and was recently re-approved for release via my jmum presentation |
| 01:26.31 | Maloeran | Ah well, no SSE there |
| 01:26.34 | ``Erik | <-- probably experiencing network issues, was running it remote X over 100baseT |
| 01:27.10 | brlcad | along with a slew of other nifty pictures... |
| 01:27.10 | Maloeran | Is Lee pleased enough, overall? |
| 01:27.17 | ``Erik | heh, brlcad, sab bc refused to sign off on a pub with that pic... once the pic was removed, she signed... |
| 01:27.34 | brlcad | Maloeran: he was yelling your name along with various profanities.. dunno... |
| 01:27.58 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 01:28.33 | ``Erik | when I stopped by his office at 5pm and told him to log into that machine and run it, once he got over the foibles of remote X and his fucked up workstation, he was extremely happy, it made his day |
| 01:29.29 | ``Erik | of course, his day wasn't exactly a shining beacon of awesomeness, I mean, chock full of meetings involving nontechnical people maching technical decisions that impact him, heh |
| 01:29.41 | ``Erik | which is par for the course these days :/ |
| 01:30.20 | Maloeran | :/ It still makes my day as well to hear that some people far away appreciate the software |
| 01:30.34 | ``Erik | tell ya what |
| 01:30.46 | ``Erik | it impressed me enough to run around and show lee and brlcad... |
| 01:30.46 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/demo01-ms.avi - Transparency walkthrough of the terribly heavy galleon model, 60mb, if anyone is interested |
| 01:30.48 | ``Erik | :) |
| 01:30.53 | Maloeran | :D |
| 01:31.08 | ``Erik | and brlcad was getting 40fps from the quad opteron, opposed to my 30 |
| 01:31.13 | ``Erik | better networking, I guess :/ |
| 01:31.28 | Maloeran | Or http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi for flat shading demo, if you want to have a look |
| 01:32.28 | deltazap | well, thanks guys :) |
| 01:32.38 | deltazap | i'm sure i'll have many more questions in the future |
| 01:33.03 | brlcad | Maloeran: can't you encode an mpeg2 or mpeg4 somewhere? :) |
| 01:33.25 | brlcad | and dear ghod.. that's a damn big video file :) |
| 01:33.58 | ``Erik | those're mpeg-4, brlcad |
| 01:34.06 | ``Erik | he just named 'em... "funny" |
| 01:34.22 | ``Erik | (avi is the uncompressed layout, mpeg4 is the compression algo... vid compression is weird like that) |
| 01:34.36 | ``Erik | be like if he named an mp3 blah.pcm |
| 01:34.41 | Maloeran | Yes, it's all msmpeg4-v2 so it even runs on windows out of the box |
| 01:35.07 | Maloeran | Sorry about the huge files, any loss of quality is really visible, so this is almost loseless |
| 01:35.25 | Maloeran | ( I have loseless versions too if you prefer :) ) |
| 01:35.32 | ``Erik | 2.4 gigs a pop? D: |
| 01:35.33 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:37.07 | Maloeran | Eheh, I still have that, but also x264 loseless compressed videos ; but I don't know how that runs on most players |
| 01:37.24 | deltazap | so, are most pepole in here developers for brl cad? |
| 01:37.25 | ``Erik | <-- uses vlc, it does everything |
| 01:37.32 | ``Erik | only a couple of us, delta |
| 01:38.02 | deltazap | ``Erik: and everyone else is an enthusiast? ;) |
| 01:38.20 | louipc | hobbist |
| 01:39.14 | ``Erik | brlcad and myself are brl-cad developers, maloeran is developing a piece that will be integrated into BRL-CAD in about a month |
| 01:39.17 | ``Erik | *look* others are former devs, enthusiests, interested parties, etc |
| 01:39.23 | ``Erik | and bots, can't forget the bots :) |
| 01:39.36 | deltazap | of course not :) |
| 01:39.50 | louipc | oh so that's who's publishing this channel eh |
| 01:39.51 | deltazap | they're a staple of any irc room |
| 01:40.01 | ``Erik | channel, not room |
| 01:40.04 | ``Erik | quit talking like an aoler |
| 01:40.05 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:40.08 | deltazap | hah |
| 01:40.13 | louipc | omg lol |
| 01:40.24 | deltazap | hai2u |
| 01:40.29 | ``Erik | A/S/L!!!!~??! |
| 01:40.40 | Maloeran | lololol!!1 |
| 01:41.15 | deltazap | brlcad mentioned being able to do analysis with models that you build with brl cad, what sort of analysis is (publically) available? |
| 01:41.15 | ``Erik | (heh, hai2u as in goatse/lemonparty/tubgirl grade shock image site?) |
| 01:41.57 | deltazap | ``Erik: not as much, just aoler mentality |
| 01:42.02 | ``Erik | volume/weight analysis, exposed area, ... |
| 01:42.25 | ``Erik | a disturbing amount is "publically available", but saying the extent is not :/ |
| 01:42.41 | deltazap | heh |
| 01:42.43 | louipc | ballistics |
| 01:42.46 | louipc | non? |
| 01:42.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: er, I meant an mpeg4 not using the divx encoding |
| 01:43.02 | ``Erik | <-- been kinda interested in doing things like optic analysis and mechanical stress/strain analysis as public type activities |
| 01:43.23 | deltazap | mechanical stress/strain analysis would be awesome |
| 01:43.45 | louipc | that would be neat |
| 01:43.45 | deltazap | that would be the one that i'm most interested in since that's related to my field |
| 01:43.48 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD's primary funding comes from ballistic type analysis, yes, but that actual work is done in another program... brlcad just provides the geometry information |
| 01:44.04 | louipc | deltazap: you're doing robots? that's awesome |
| 01:44.05 | deltazap | had to work with ansys today for one of my classes |
| 01:44.08 | louipc | ah ok |
| 01:44.16 | deltazap | what a pain |
| 01:44.24 | brlcad | deltazap: the other devs drop in from time to time, or live on the mailing lists |
| 01:44.31 | deltazap | interesting |
| 01:44.32 | brlcad | or just commit and cause problems when they can ;) |
| 01:44.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:44.38 | louipc | hah |
| 01:44.43 | deltazap | louipc: yes :) unmanned systems |
| 01:44.45 | ``Erik | you mean bob? :D *duck* |
| 01:44.48 | deltazap | haha |
| 01:45.00 | brlcad | i think bob tried to join the channel twice |
| 01:45.10 | brlcad | never got it to work |
| 01:45.27 | ``Erik | I mean the causing problems part... ain't his fault, though, he was working the windows port and not focused on portability |
| 01:45.28 | deltazap | our group is actually sponsored by ARL for some of our projects |
| 01:45.31 | Maloeran | Bob from Survice? |
| 01:45.38 | louipc | deltazap: well as I see it, that's what a robot is. It bugs me when they call those RC doodads robots like on Robot Wars |
| 01:45.40 | brlcad | is there any other bob? :) |
| 01:45.42 | ``Erik | mal: ja, the dude we had lunch with at the golf course |
| 01:45.50 | brlcad | bob's pretty cool guy, *real* easy going |
| 01:46.03 | deltazap | louipc: http://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm is our group's site |
| 01:46.09 | ``Erik | he used to be arl civvy, same office as john |
| 01:46.25 | brlcad | very much a least-resistance path coder though, whatever gets the job done fastest no matter how maintainable, clean, fastest running it is |
| 01:46.29 | Maloeran | I'm surprised Bob couldn't manage to come on IRC |
| 01:46.47 | brlcad | he just didn't try really hard.. and might have had firewall issues |
| 01:46.48 | Maloeran | Yes, I saw some of his Fastgen code, it isn't that bad |
| 01:47.20 | brlcad | Maloeran: heh, he wrote most of the gui code in mged .. still think that? :) |
| 01:47.30 | Maloeran | Ouch! :) |
| 01:47.32 | brlcad | that said, he also wrote archer which is worlds cleaner/improved ;) |
| 01:47.53 | brlcad | he was using tcl before it was really stabilized |
| 01:48.17 | brlcad | plus he's colorblind (so lets make him a gui coder! woot) |
| 01:48.17 | Maloeran | I think I just have a high esteem for Bob as Mark told me he also first submitted progress reports and invoices as a .txt file, as I initially did |
| 01:48.43 | brlcad | he's a very simple down to earth guy |
| 01:49.05 | brlcad | really easy going, makes awesome guitars |
| 01:49.06 | ``Erik | bob's colorblind, too? |
| 01:49.16 | louipc | deltazap: nice, I'd really like to do stuff like that |
| 01:49.18 | brlcad | yeah, ironic, no? |
| 01:49.37 | louipc | solid body guitars? |
| 01:49.41 | ``Erik | akoostics |
| 01:49.48 | deltazap | louipc: this job was just kinda dropped into my lap |
| 01:49.52 | brlcad | i almost bought one off him before he left, but then I was burning cash on other toys at the time |
| 01:49.52 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 01:50.33 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 01:50.36 | louipc | neato |
| 01:50.39 | deltazap | louipc: problem is that is a bunch of CS PhD students and noone wanted to work with the hardware when it broke. makes it hard to show off their systems :P |
| 01:50.46 | brlcad | you so wouldn't think he makes classic guitars, with his military background, potty mouth, and laid back coder attitude |
| 01:50.59 | Maloeran | He's apparently much into fishing too |
| 01:51.02 | deltazap | *its |
| 01:51.09 | louipc | deltazap: yeah definitely. software isn't everything :/ |
| 01:51.29 | brlcad | it isn't?? |
| 01:51.35 | deltazap | hah |
| 01:51.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: and guns |
| 01:51.51 | brlcad | shooting with him is fun, if you get the chance |
| 01:51.56 | deltazap | that and they don't have anyone to design and build custom hardware |
| 01:51.57 | brlcad | pretty experienced |
| 01:52.07 | brlcad | assuming you're not gunphobic or something |
| 01:52.12 | Maloeran | I think I'll pass that :), not my kind of activity |
| 01:52.35 | Maloeran | I think I'm not very fond of these particular... tools, never saw a gun though |
| 01:52.51 | Maloeran | ( They are fairly rare in Canada ) |
| 01:52.54 | brlcad | if you hung around him long enough, you probably would be enticed.. it's hard not to be ;) |
| 01:52.56 | louipc | yea |
| 01:53.34 | brlcad | not hunting, target practice shooting clay pigeons .. though bob hunts too iirc |
| 01:53.51 | louipc | I went to a flea market in georgia and I was pretty freaked out by all the weapons |
| 01:54.07 | Maloeran | I'll settle for bicycle rides with Lee instead ;) |
| 01:54.20 | brlcad | Maloeran: i'm not sure it's a "rare in Canada" as it is a "rare in and around cities" |
| 01:54.44 | brlcad | it's not like I could easily go shooting down in baltimore (at least outdoors), without getting shot at |
| 01:54.50 | ``Erik | heh, reading on laws and stuff, it's actually easier to buy a gun in canada than in the US |
| 01:55.11 | ``Erik | less wait period, less background check... but they're all hunting grade weapons, not "self defense" weapons |
| 01:55.18 | louipc | should be even easier soon too |
| 01:56.11 | brlcad | yeah, i'm referring more to the shotgun and rifle sort, not a handgun or uzi .. though those can be fun too I hear :) |
| 01:56.35 | ``Erik | of course, the biggest news item gun crimes in the us are with hunting rifles... the wv sniper, etc |
| 01:57.42 | brlcad | deltazap: hmm.. I notice that ARL is one of your groups funding sponsors.. |
| 01:57.52 | deltazap | yes :) |
| 01:58.06 | brlcad | that's probably a great lead towards securing a job ;) |
| 01:58.25 | brlcad | do you know what part of ARL? |
| 01:58.50 | brlcad | that sounds like the sort of stuff Twingy is working on now |
| 01:59.10 | deltazap | hang on, i have a card from one of the guys that came a week ago to look at everything |
| 01:59.35 | deltazap | weapons technology analysis branch |
| 02:00.58 | deltazap | when he came, i basically got a job offer. i've only been with the group for three weeks :P |
| 02:02.38 | brlcad | yeah, there are positions open all over the lab, a hard need for bodies and talent |
| 02:03.17 | Maloeran | They aren't too fond of canadians apparently, though |
| 02:04.33 | louipc | :P |
| 02:04.33 | brlcad | hmm.. that branch is probably part of WTD |
| 02:04.34 | ``Erik | does it have an office symbol? |
| 02:04.34 | brlcad | pearson and company |
| 02:04.34 | ``Erik | like AMSRD-ARL-WM-WB ? |
| 02:04.42 | deltazap | ``Erik: amsrd-arl-wm-bf |
| 02:04.47 | brlcad | eep |
| 02:04.50 | ``Erik | hah, it IS wm, bitch! |
| 02:04.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:05.17 | ``Erik | <-- in AMSRD-ARL-SL-BS |
| 02:05.24 | ``Erik | yes, you read that right. BS. |
| 02:05.26 | ``Erik | :( |
| 02:05.37 | brlcad | better that BF |
| 02:05.43 | ``Erik | best friends? |
| 02:05.43 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:05.45 | brlcad | s/that/than/ |
| 02:05.51 | deltazap | lol |
| 02:05.58 | ``Erik | that's what you meant, right, you pillowbiter? |
| 02:06.03 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:06.08 | brlcad | uh huh |
| 02:06.30 | louipc | ! |
| 02:06.51 | brlcad | oh yeah.. and libapr somehow got updated again |
| 02:07.07 | brlcad | but I was able to trace down the crashes to mod_security and mod_rewrite |
| 02:07.09 | ``Erik | this is the part of the day where you eat some food, have a nice relaxing adult beverage and prepare to watch southpark, buddy |
| 02:07.14 | brlcad | so I'm upgrading everything now |
| 02:07.24 | ``Erik | onyour machine in belize? |
| 02:07.28 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:08.16 | ``Erik | unfortunate that we don't have friendly boots on the ground in that region. |
| 02:08.24 | deltazap | i'm not sure what most of the acronyms mean :P |
| 02:08.27 | louipc | hah I've never heard the term 'adult beverage' before |
| 02:08.43 | brlcad | my schedule is almost exactly 6 hours off right now, 9pm feels like 3pm, which means break time .. and a second burst of energy in about two hours until about 5am |
| 02:09.29 | Maloeran | Sounds great brlcad, I thought one had to be a consultant working remotely to do that |
| 02:09.31 | ``Erik | got insane amounts of stuff done in that period of my life, too |
| 02:09.33 | brlcad | i've tried syncing back 6 hours three times now, but can't hold it for more than a day |
| 02:09.56 | brlcad | Maloeran: seniority ;) |
| 02:10.28 | ``Erik | heh, d'no if it's seniority as much as contractor insulation combined with a perception of being irreplacable :) |
| 02:10.47 | brlcad | but it's good stuff (most of the time), great toys, great code and potential for ideas if you know how to work it |
| 02:11.00 | Maloeran | Eheh. From what I see, brlcad is indeed irreplacable, no one knows the software nearly as well |
| 02:11.28 | ``Erik | I d'no, there may be a couple that do, but they're married to other projects O.o |
| 02:11.31 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:11.39 | ``Erik | (don't inflate the boys ego, mal) |
| 02:11.41 | ``Erik | :> |
| 02:11.43 | brlcad | nah, not even lee at this point |
| 02:11.53 | brlcad | and he has years on everyone |
| 02:11.59 | ``Erik | um, lee wasn't on my list |
| 02:12.02 | ``Erik | jra is, though |
| 02:12.03 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:12.05 | brlcad | interesting |
| 02:12.12 | brlcad | jra is close |
| 02:12.25 | brlcad | from the whole project perspective though, he has lots of gaps |
| 02:12.38 | brlcad | he knows more detail in the areas he worked on though, that's for sure |
| 02:12.46 | ``Erik | lee is typically grossly outdated in his knowledge base :/ |
| 02:12.56 | ``Erik | he's been doing the pointy hair routine too long |
| 02:13.06 | brlcad | depends where in the code and the topic |
| 02:14.52 | ``Erik | <-- ammended the tactical plan's verse on documentation to hopefully help in that regard |
| 02:14.53 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:14.58 | brlcad | jra is up there followed by lee then maybe bob then maybe you or chris |
| 02:15.17 | ``Erik | the two in my head were john and bob |
| 02:15.34 | brlcad | lee knows more than you give him credit for, there's a lot of scope |
| 02:15.36 | ``Erik | chris... our one competent friend in the "primary" customer software maintenance team? |
| 02:15.40 | brlcad | just lacking detail |
| 02:15.45 | ``Erik | lee has good breadth |
| 02:16.01 | brlcad | that's what i'm primarily referring to -- breadth of knowledge |
| 02:16.04 | ``Erik | but when you get into details on BRL-CAD, he vocalizes the state as of '98 or so |
| 02:16.21 | ``Erik | which is current on some parts |
| 02:16.24 | ``Erik | not on others... |
| 02:16.53 | brlcad | and no -- chris johnson |
| 02:17.07 | brlcad | you haven't met i believe |
| 02:17.12 | ``Erik | hm, sounds familiar, but I cannot place |
| 02:17.14 | brlcad | aside from in here |
| 02:17.14 | ``Erik | he, uh |
| 02:17.21 | ``Erik | I've talked to him here, yes, cjohnson |
| 02:17.38 | ``Erik | a couple times... enough for me to go "ah ha, NOT a newbie linux weenie" |
| 02:17.54 | brlcad | pjt actually has a fair bit of breadth too, but undoubtedly all forgotten or entirely obsolete at this point |
| 02:18.21 | ``Erik | I suspect any technical fu pjt had 3 years ago has gone the way of the crapper |
| 02:18.35 | ``Erik | he keeps a bookcase of cs books as an opaque shrine. :( |
| 02:19.08 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 02:19.11 | ``Erik | last time I was in his new office, he seemed genuinely upset about that fact |
| 02:19.21 | ``Erik | but open about it |
| 02:19.24 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:21.30 | brlcad | lee curiously knows very little about the build system.. was similar in the cake days too |
| 02:21.53 | ``Erik | *shrug* I wouldn't expect him to, it changed in the last 5 years |
| 02:21.55 | Maloeran | I wouldn't blame it for that, I'm terribly uninspired to learn this stuff too |
| 02:22.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:22.05 | Maloeran | blame him* |
| 02:22.07 | ``Erik | did you check out rtcmp, mal? |
| 02:22.22 | Maloeran | Ah no, I didn't |
| 02:22.24 | deltazap | how hard is it to set up the rendering system for multiple machines? |
| 02:22.40 | ``Erik | the automake usage there is much different than BRL-CAD |
| 02:23.07 | ``Erik | given how you lay out the directories and locations of the files, you might like how I did rtcmp a lot more than how rayfarce currently is |
| 02:23.28 | brlcad | how was that? non-recursive? |
| 02:23.40 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.43 | ``Erik | yeah, toplevel build |
| 02:23.53 | ``Erik | reduced presense |
| 02:24.19 | ``Erik | minimalistic, even :) while retaining solid portability |
| 02:24.32 | ``Erik | (though most of it is by leveraging BRL-CAD's portability...) |
| 02:25.10 | brlcad | i'm curious how fast the compile would be without recursive on brl-cad, but hell if I am interested in 1) breaking something that works, 2) editing 535 files, and 3) giving the gnu folks satisfaction on their rediculous ranting |
| 02:25.13 | ``Erik | bear in mind, the code is crude as it's early dev |
| 02:25.59 | ``Erik | I have 3 subdirs total, with the subdirs being linked into the toplevel binary... it was a no-brainer to go with non-recursive |
| 02:26.26 | ``Erik | now PARTS of BRL-CAD might benefit from non-recursive... but most of it is best recursive |
| 02:26.39 | ``Erik | like ADRT might benefit, since it often has 2 or 3 .c files in a subdir |
| 02:27.13 | ``Erik | and the data dirs might |
| 02:28.39 | brlcad | you can still have the makefiles deep with recursive |
| 02:28.57 | brlcad | and just have #include's on the top level |
| 02:37.14 | ``Erik | -m 'only linux is broken' :D |
| 02:38.25 | Maloeran | Is their commit email notification thing broken? |
| 02:38.48 | ``Erik | eys |
| 02:38.49 | ``Erik | yes |
| 02:38.57 | ``Erik | I got an error from this mac, as well |
| 02:39.09 | ``Erik | and its' ruby, not python... I was in err earlier |
| 02:39.24 | ``Erik | I emailed myself the error, I'll mail, uh, someone... tomorrow... |
| 02:39.44 | Maloeran | I haven't received any cvs commit notification since the one at 5h42 this morning |
| 02:42.11 | ``Erik | perhaps there's a muckup with my account, or with using a mac to commit *shrug* |
| 02:42.17 | Maloeran | What exactly did you change? I'm not even sure it's commiting |
| 02:42.24 | ``Erik | it committed |
| 02:42.46 | ``Erik | RF/config.h |
| 02:43.02 | Maloeran | Right, okay |
| 02:43.18 | ``Erik | I put #ifdef __linux__ around RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK |
| 02:44.08 | Maloeran | The problem is glibc specific. Isn't glibc used on other platforms too? |
| 02:44.15 | ``Erik | not to my knowledge |
| 02:44.48 | ``Erik | none of the BSD family and no UNIX uses glibc |
| 02:44.55 | ``Erik | um, HURD/HIRD might |
| 02:44.56 | ``Erik | but, uh |
| 02:44.58 | ``Erik | no one uses that |
| 02:44.59 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:45.40 | Maloeran | I think you can run some patched glibc on various BSD |
| 02:45.57 | ``Erik | well, yeah, there're ports to install a tweaked glibc |
| 02:46.00 | ``Erik | but its' not natural |
| 02:46.23 | ``Erik | <-- needs to install dragonfly and netbsd to get total coverage :/ |
| 02:46.58 | Maloeran | I probably broke again whatever platforms doesn't have stdint.h, but that's a standard C99 header, and I require C99 to compile |
| 02:48.03 | ``Erik | stdint showed up in the bsd family a long time ago |
| 02:48.39 | Maloeran | You once added some switch to check for the existence of stdint.h, so I assume it wasn't present on some of your test platforms |
| 02:48.47 | ``Erik | ands ince you're c99, you exclude pretty much all the real UNIX platforms |
| 02:49.53 | ``Erik | heh, too bad I don't have aix and hpux boxen |
| 02:51.04 | Maloeran | The SOW said the code is to be written in C99, I'm not too concerned if some archaic Unix platforms still live in 1989. Is it really of any importance to you guys? |
| 02:51.30 | ``Erik | so when're you cutting that mega-box up for different platforms, mal? |
| 02:51.31 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:51.48 | ``Erik | unfortunately, most of our "primary use" machines ARE that archaic. |
| 02:51.59 | Maloeran | Ouch, I see |
| 02:52.09 | ``Erik | running, y'know, irix 6.5 and one running solaris 8 |
| 02:52.26 | ``Erik | when I get my solaris 10 cd's, I might 'donate' an upgrade |
| 02:52.41 | ``Erik | to both the e420 and an x86 |
| 02:53.01 | ``Erik | I mostly care about fbsd, obsd and osX these days |
| 02:53.07 | ``Erik | a tiny little bit about windows and linux |
| 02:53.23 | ``Erik | irix and solaris are nice, but mostly historical.... |
| 02:53.51 | ``Erik | but that's my personal profile, it doesnt' align with the common user |
| 02:53.51 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:54.33 | ``Erik | <-- will keep doing what he can to keep you portable to the platforms that matter... |
| 02:54.44 | ``Erik | performance wise, though, a broad install base may be a big eye opener |
| 02:54.47 | Maloeran | I don't see how you can give more importance to BSD than Linux for some real software |
| 02:55.30 | ``Erik | hm, linux is a limelight baby, bsd is a workhorse in teh shadows |
| 02:55.35 | Maloeran | I know you are personally more fond of BSD, but I don't think that reflects what should be the real priorities... |
| 02:55.43 | ``Erik | yahoo, for example... is mostly a fbsd cluster. |
| 02:55.56 | ``Erik | yahoo stores used to be lisp, heh |
| 02:55.59 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:56.07 | Maloeran | Some clusters actually run fbsd? I thought it was all Linux, from what I saw |
| 02:56.22 | ``Erik | my baddest "real" machine for my customers is a fbsd cluster |
| 02:56.24 | ``Erik | uh |
| 02:56.30 | ``Erik | linux has marketting, dude |
| 02:56.32 | ``Erik | fbsd don't |
| 02:56.56 | ``Erik | in setting up clusters, linux was totally non-functional after a week of effort |
| 02:57.06 | ``Erik | fbsd is so mature and just THERE, I have it all done in 2 hours |
| 02:57.16 | ``Erik | and I'm not totally linux stupid, last I checked :) |
| 02:57.47 | Maloeran | :) Surprising... |
| 02:57.54 | ``Erik | from talking to both fbsd and linux people, linux is a bunch of 'kids' who are very vocal... lots of /. stuff |
| 02:58.07 | ``Erik | fbsd users tend to be old professional types who "mkae it work" without fuss |
| 02:58.14 | ``Erik | cdrom.com back in teh day was a fbsd machine |
| 02:58.39 | brlcad | before they sold out |
| 02:58.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:58.48 | ``Erik | TEH DAY!!! |
| 02:59.05 | Maloeran | Well, the MSRC clusters of you guys at the ARL all run Linux |
| 02:59.06 | justin__ | ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/95 |
| 02:59.20 | Maloeran | Which I think would be an important point to care about Linux a bit |
| 02:59.25 | ``Erik | no, most MSRC clusters are not linux, a couple BIGGIES are linux |
| 02:59.49 | ``Erik | I think aix is better represented |
| 03:00.25 | ``Erik | but bear in mind, MSRC is not about ultimate performance or maintainability, there's a lot of beaurocracy.... a lot of weight is put towards sanctioned finger pointing |
| 03:00.33 | ``Erik | which is what sgi/altix and redhat enterprise buy you |
| 03:01.12 | ``Erik | they aint' runnin' gentoo, dude |
| 03:02.19 | Maloeran | Eh well, all right then. I'll be one of these vocal Linux kids :) |
| 03:02.46 | ``Erik | if you had serious experience in a non-linux *nix, I think you'd change your tune |
| 03:02.47 | ``Erik | I did |
| 03:03.04 | ``Erik | twingy did once he was seriously exposed to fbsd |
| 03:03.35 | ``Erik | linux is a dandy little toy os, a good stepping stone... :D |
| 03:03.36 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 03:05.59 | Maloeran | Tsk :), there's so little potential and theorical gain from learning fbsd, and I'll need years to be on par with my Linux |
| 03:16.07 | Twingy | you would think that with glDisable (GL_DEPTH_TEST); that each successive call to drawing an object would draw on top of anything previously existing |
| 03:16.41 | ``Erik | *blink* one would think |
| 03:17.26 | Twingy | given I am seeing random behavior in fbsd and winderz (both are different) I don't know what to believe |
| 03:17.37 | Twingy | both are wrong |
| 03:23.43 | Twingy | weird, now it works |
| 03:24.06 | Twingy | display lists + depth buffer toggles do bad things |
| 03:40.38 | louipc | gentoo is a maintenance nightmare if you ask me |
| 03:41.24 | louipc | yeah I have to try fbsd |
| 04:00.33 | Maloeran | I found Gentoo is fine as long as you install and update what you need, and never ever try emerge world |
| 04:03.06 | louipc | Archlinux is kind of like fbsd in that respect |
| 04:09.00 | Twingy | numaPICOS |
| 04:09.54 | Maloeran | Erik, give to fbsd better NUMA support than Linux and its libNUMA, and I'll move over :) |
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| 05:03.15 | deltazap | Maloeran: if you do emerge world, make sure you have a nice distcc system set up :P |
| 05:04.15 | brlcad | or just really nice hardware ;) |
| 05:06.48 | deltazap | if distcc worked well with darwinports on osx, then i'd be really happy using my powermac to help compile things |
| 05:08.34 | louipc | deltazap: Maloeran has a pretty sweet machine I don't think he needs to worry about that |
| 05:09.14 | brlcad | ``Erik: got all the web services upgraded now |
| 05:13.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: since I actually looked at gdb instead of just doing the fix, there are multiple crash points or at least places where mod_security, mod_rewrite, and libphp could independently (i.e. with the other two disabled) crash httpd due to various issues |
| 05:13.57 | brlcad | one crashed inside a log attempt, another while lookup up httpd's running username, another while talking back through apr |
| 05:15.53 | brlcad | the fix is pretty simple, have to get php and apache to both (forcibly) have -pthread added to the CFLAGS -- for php this amounts to building, cd into work, reconfigure with CFLAGS=-pthread, cd out, and reinstall .. for apache2, it's a matter of editing the ports Makefile and appending -pthread to the CFLAGS |
| 05:16.05 | brlcad | once that was done, everything was a happy donkey |
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| 08:05.45 | Maloeran | Woah... This new release of Firefox guesses what I'm typing in its integrated google search before I'm done |
| 08:06.11 | Maloeran | I type the first two words of a book title, and it fills up the rest o.O |
| 08:11.38 | Maloeran | Erik, SURVICE's email troubles don't seem limited to cvs commits. Sending an email to Mark failed with "TCP active open: Failed connect() Error: Connection refused" for the last 14 hours |
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| 13:37.13 | ``Erik | stupid intarweb |
| 13:37.37 | ``Erik | brlcad: might be worth tweaking /etc/make.conf to always include -pthread in the CFLAGS |
| 14:16.44 | Maloeran | Erik, any objection to the use of non-public SDL function calls? The only way to get efficient N buffering |
| 14:17.13 | Maloeran | Looking at the source, it should be portable, though perhaps could break with future SDL versions |
| 14:24.26 | Maloeran | Darn, the functions required are declared static, no symbols |
| 14:26.28 | ``Erik | the part that matters is the raytrace engine, not the demo app... right? |
| 14:27.24 | Maloeran | And you guys are going to use the raytracing engine to shoot one ray at a time without using 10% of the engine's features *sigh* |
| 14:29.20 | ``Erik | at first |
| 14:29.23 | ``Erik | for one of the apps |
| 14:29.27 | ``Erik | the "selling" app |
| 14:29.38 | ``Erik | but things like CCI will not be designed so r-tarded |
| 14:31.09 | ``Erik | stringing it into isst will be much more optimal than "the selling app" :/ |
| 14:31.28 | Maloeran | Ah, what are CCI/ISST? |
| 14:31.58 | Maloeran | The video recording performs N buffering so it scales well with threads and distributed processing, but the SDL visualization clearly doesn't ( block and wait every frame ) |
| 14:32.18 | ``Erik | other projects... :) ISST is interactive, CCI is more of a very specialized large scale global illumination concept (not started yet) |
| 14:32.39 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 14:33.06 | ``Erik | isst is in the BRL-CAD cvs repo as src/adrt/isst |
| 14:33.27 | Maloeran | Further development of Rayforce is likely to become closed-source though, as the ARL stops support and Survice wants to lead |
| 14:34.47 | Maloeran | which I think is rather unfortunate, ah well... |
| 14:35.21 | ``Erik | *shrug* the core of it will go lgpl, right? |
| 14:35.39 | ``Erik | as long as whatever builds on it adheres to the license, who cares? |
| 14:36.32 | Maloeran | As copyright holder, I can pick any license for future developments, and Survice clearly prefers closed source |
| 14:37.42 | Maloeran | Hum, and they advocate patents too |
| 14:40.27 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I just thought you guys should know that future improvements ( such as the long list of postponed optimisations ) will most likely not be LGPL |
| 14:40.54 | Maloeran | Unless Wendy changes her mind within a month somehow :) |
| 15:27.38 | Maloeran | Getting a pointer within the current_video struct through SDL_GetVideoInfo(), then from that pointer scanning memory around for the ->shadow surface pointer, and then modifying that pointer, works. It's also the ugliest hack I have done in a while :), I don't think I'm going to keep that |
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| 16:14.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): more progress on dvec class: constructors, equality and addition. |
| 16:15.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: add simple test for dvec<8> correctness |
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| 17:45.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): "finish" implementing dvec. added operator for debugging. |
| 17:47.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: finish testing methods of dvec<>. add simple performance test for dvec<>. |
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| 18:40.53 | ``Erik | mal: we'll throw so much horky geometry at it that sdl blit speeds will be irrelevant :) |
| 18:43.10 | Maloeran | Good good :), you'll have to be far in the millions |
| 18:45.39 | Maloeran | Heard anything abou SURVICE's dead email daemon? Where's the cron job to start it back? |
| 18:45.43 | Maloeran | about* |
| 18:47.19 | Maloeran | Don't try sending them emails, it bounces back |
| 19:32.45 | ``Erik | <-- knows nothing of their internal operations. |
| 19:35.48 | Maloeran | Distributed processing with frame buffering sure saturates my 100mbit fast, I need a better router or switch. It works nicely though |
| 19:36.35 | Maloeran | Any thoughts on a fast and loseless compression library that would be appropriate for these chunks of pixels? |
| 19:36.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: wdb_smooth_bot doesn't seem to have a help entry, which causes all hlep to fail. commenting it out for now... |
| 19:36.50 | ``Erik | loseless? hrm, no :/ |
| 19:39.45 | Maloeran | A whole lot of papers on google on fast lossless image compression |
| 19:40.04 | ``Erik | hmmmm |
| 19:40.15 | ``Erik | lets see, the base model I want to try is 7.2 million triangles |
| 19:40.34 | ``Erik | if that's not enough, I can put a hundred or a thousand of them in a scene |
| 19:42.42 | Maloeran | Neat, should be a bit slower than the 2 million triangles galleon, depends on space complexity |
| 19:43.27 | ``Erik | very compact and dense |
| 19:43.59 | ``Erik | with some larger 'shelling' triangles on the outside, I believe |
| 19:44.21 | ``Erik | 7214956 triangles |
| 19:44.44 | Maloeran | *nods* The galleon is a difficult for space partitionning techniques with these ropes and sails everywhere |
| 20:47.14 | IriX64 | brlcad: has this occurred anywhere else? syntax error in config using automake 1.9.6? starting from autogen, i isolated it down to aclocal, dropped back to 1.8.5 and all is well. |
| 20:49.18 | IriX64 | btw this one installs right ;) |
| 20:50.44 | IriX64 | btw i'm quite willing to test any issues you're having if you need a test bed. |
| 20:57.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/377531 |
| 20:57.19 | IriX64 | that setup succeds. |
| 21:23.34 | IriX64 | hey where's louipc? |
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| 21:42.21 | ``Erik | mal, how do I convert something to rtgg? |
| 21:43.19 | Maloeran | Err... Right, give me a moment on that one |
| 21:43.35 | Maloeran | I converted the old rtml files but forgot to write a g->rtgg |
| 21:43.56 | ``Erik | :) g-tri.c doens't do anything |
| 21:44.12 | Maloeran | That's Lee's example I think |
| 21:44.20 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:44.24 | Maloeran | Hum... Perhaps I even forgot to commit the rtml converter |
| 21:44.32 | ``Erik | I don't think you ever committed anything like that |
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| 22:34.25 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: how about fixing the problem instead, should be wdb_bot_smooth |
| 22:43.53 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: s/srtdup/strdup/ typo |
| 22:59.17 | louipc | :O I thought archer wasn't announced. It's mentioned in wikipedia hah |
| 23:14.01 | ``Erik | hehehe, my quick greps didn't show a plausible candidate, guess I just grepped wrong :) |
| 23:17.05 | brlcad | that command used to be called smooth_bot |
| 23:17.23 | brlcad | then was later renamed to bot_smooth to be more consistent with the other bot_* commands |
| 23:18.07 | ``Erik | I vagually remember hearing that before |
| 23:18.29 | brlcad | mike actually fixed the few remaining, but apparently missed the help one |
| 23:18.30 | ``Erik | <-- was trying to learn facetize, 'help' was puking in mged, pulled a bob to make it work *shrug* :) |
| 23:18.42 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:18.45 | brlcad | shame on you :) |
| 23:18.59 | ``Erik | heh, I only know a tiny fraction of the stuff in the package |
| 23:19.00 | brlcad | pulling a bob is never a good thing :) |
| 23:19.11 | ``Erik | and broad greps weren't helping me... |
| 23:19.33 | ``Erik | grep isn't exactly a context free language |
| 23:19.36 | brlcad | that whole triple table foo for help is a bit funky in itself |
| 23:20.02 | ``Erik | <-- grepped a couple choice subsymbols through the whole tree before commenting it out... and just commented it, didn't delete it... |
| 23:20.29 | ``Erik | I knew I was punting, so I left breadcrumbs :) I try not to BREAK things |
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