irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070314

00:09.06 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168051043.dsl.bell.ca)
00:22.48 Maloeran Hence the "very often" part
00:25.12 brlcad don't care about the rate, care about the prevalence :P
00:26.34 brlcad aligning to 8 is fine anyways, the problems would be alignments > 16 or non % 8
00:35.34 Maloeran *nods* Overlooking SSE, the cache memory can prefer getting proper alignment for chunks of 16,32,64 bytes
00:38.03 brlcad what I really need is a configure test that compares 8, 16, 32, 64 to see which is fastest for some simple operation
01:12.50 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056388.dsl.bell.ca)
01:24.45 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056388.dsl.bell.ca)
06:08.38 ``Erik I put in a ticket to get that del 2450 offically recognized and permitted... but the hw seems to have issues...
07:13.48 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-125.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:18.18 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (termcap.src Makefile.am): add a termcap source file, version 9.13.25, pulled from NetBSD. avoids license issues and works with existing library sources.
07:18.50 Maloeran Darn. You make me check in the source, and fbsd's malloc really does align on 16 bytes
07:19.53 Maloeran It seems a bit weaker than Linux's though, and of course suffers the same problem of a global mutex lock
07:20.27 Maloeran Posix threads could have included proper scalable memory management as part of the standard
07:32.24 brlcad you would probably appreciate the results from a raw malloc benchmark that I wrote/ran several years ago
07:33.09 brlcad it allocated memory across the entire spectrum of allocation sizes, looking at the raw allocation performance numbers
07:33.32 brlcad ran the test on most operating systems available at the time, with some wildly surprising results in some cases
07:34.58 brlcad you could see the see various allocation size optimizations that some libraries catered too, pathalogical horror allocation sizes, performance scalability
07:55.28 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (10 files):
07:55.28 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: update from the old vi termcap sources to the more modern NetBSD implementation.
07:55.29 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: this version doesn't suffer the assumption that there needs to be an
07:55.29 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: /etc/termcap among many other improvements. it's under 3-clause BSD and seems
07:55.29 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: to be version 0.6 dated December 17, 2006.
08:12.26 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/configure.ac: use newer autoconf/automake symantics
08:12.56 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: include the manpage in the dist, clean up after junk. makes a local make distcheck work for enigma.
08:36.29 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: also search in BRLCAD_DATA/etc for a termcap file. quell warning on cgetent() constness.
08:36.52 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/Makefile.am: install the termcap.src file into BRLCAD_DATA/etc
08:38.16 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: just use dist_mans
08:42.38 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed jove/termcap issues on Mac OS X
08:44.58 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: updated bundled libtermcap to NetBSD version 0.6
08:48.07 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/vfont.c librt/vshoot.c): bu_malloc is guaranteed to never return NULL, so remove the unnecessary checks
10:02.41 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:59.31 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
11:59.31 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: missing return statements added
11:59.31 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: min and max initialized
11:59.50 clock_ brlcad: did you manage to repair some of the buggers I reported?
12:14.41 *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:31.33 brlcad you never saw it?
13:33.10 brlcad it made Apple reimplement their malloc between 10.2 and 10.3 (and what an improvement they made..)
13:37.04 ``Erik don't believe I've seen it, no... I know you've told me about it, but ...
13:38.22 brlcad pretty simple code, came up with it back in college days as a way to take down the uni's servers
13:38.48 ``Erik :)
13:38.49 brlcad could outright lock everyone out of the system on-demand, even consolers
13:38.51 archivist naughty boy
13:39.27 brlcad but that was also just due to the "inexperience" of those sys admins to figure out how to counter it
13:40.09 brlcad later turned it into a basic stresser, added some timers, started making graphs .. found lots of surprising results quickly across implementations
13:40.18 archivist uni has to be a good training for sysadmins
13:40.37 brlcad indeed :)
13:40.57 ``Erik hrm, probably failry easy to bin os's by which allocator they use
13:41.22 ``Erik dl vs phk ...
13:48.02 *** join/#brlcad ak_real (n=d4b0f9ad@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:32.06 brlcad aha!
16:23.00 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
16:28.59 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
16:45.14 IriX64 ./configure --for-sean built successfully, but without opengl sigh.
16:45.47 IriX64 7.6.2 however opengl works yay :)
16:46.25 IriX64 heh man the parts weren't made to fit ;)
16:46.50 clock_ IriX64: you mean overlap?
16:47.30 IriX64 _clock I mean as you and me unles you're a woman of course.
16:47.40 IriX64 oh man...
16:47.54 IriX64 modelling it? how would you get it built?
16:49.24 *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
16:49.45 IriX64 there's a picture of the opengl window on my space, forget what number.
16:50.28 IriX64 www.spaces.live.com/irix64
16:51.44 IriX64 its called ogl
17:00.16 IriX64 mmmm x works, got a havoc uo on the screen.
17:00.22 IriX64 up too.
17:03.16 IriX64 that "x" pix i just uploaded is 7.8.4.
17:04.24 IriX64 before you wonder, I have nothing but time on my hands and i love playing with software.
17:06.25 IriX64 rt however says rt: can't open frame buffer, no cuch device "/dev/ogll"/
17:07.04 brlcad should be using /dev/Xl
17:07.17 IriX64 i just typed rt
17:07.22 IriX64 no parameters
17:07.26 brlcad then you have FB_FILE set somewhere
17:07.35 IriX64 shouldnt it default to what you have up?
17:07.54 IriX64 syas opengl wasn't built.
17:08.05 brlcad it defaults to what it was compiled to use, unless FB_FILE is set or unless you specify
17:08.14 IriX64 ty ill look
17:08.17 brlcad the "fbhelp" command lists the default and all others supported
17:08.25 IriX64 ty again
17:11.05 IriX64 christ man its used everywhere but its not in the ./include dir files at all unless im missing it.
17:11.25 brlcad huh?
17:11.42 brlcad FB_FILE is an environment variable, nothing to do with the source code
17:11.58 brlcad fbhelp is a command (outside of mged)
17:12.11 IriX64 my mistake thought it was a define somewhere :)
17:13.05 brlcad "brlman fbhelp" explains
17:13.21 IriX64 ty ill read it.
17:18.20 IriX64 what dir plz brlcad i can't find it.
17:19.28 IriX64 looking in html docs dir.
17:20.21 brlcad what dir what?
17:20.35 IriX64 ill look later, cot a compile to set in motion at the moment.
17:20.51 brlcad i have no idea what you're asking for
17:20.59 brlcad brlman and fbhelp are *commands*
17:21.07 brlcad like mged and rt are commands
17:21.13 brlcad there are lots and lots of commands
17:21.23 IriX64 scuse while I eat egg :)
17:21.28 brlcad you don't look for them -- they should be in your path
17:23.25 IriX64 say whatever happened to -doxygen?
17:23.44 IriX64 deprecated?
17:29.33 brlcad your question continues to fail parsing
17:29.49 brlcad doxygen comments are used throughout the sources
17:37.47 IriX64 the switch is gone or at least it doesn't appear in the summary anymore.
17:53.39 brlcad what switch?
17:54.40 IriX64 --enable-doxygen
17:55.20 IriX64 its in 7.6.2
17:56.20 IriX64 and there used to be a line in the summary, i just noticed in 7.8.4 trhat line isn't there anymore.
17:57.19 IriX64 its also in ./configure --help, let me check 7.8.4
17:58.29 IriX64 not there anymore.
17:59.04 *** join/#brlcad ak_real (i=ak_real@87.249.59.53)
17:59.05 brlcad ahh, configure option
17:59.13 brlcad helps to be specific
17:59.30 brlcad the switch didn't do anything in 7.6.2
18:00.03 brlcad so it was removed until someone actually adds the functionality
18:00.04 IriX64 let generate a 7.6.2 configure i'll pastebin it for you.
18:00.08 brlcad please don't
18:00.11 IriX64 ok
18:00.57 brlcad i'm quite familiar with what we did and do .. you just had originally said "-doxygen" without even mentioning configure and without that even being the option
18:01.10 brlcad i know it was removed, i removed it
18:01.11 IriX64 sorry
18:01.13 brlcad because it did nothing
18:01.38 brlcad now, if you're volunteering to make it actually do something .. like run doxygen, that would be sweet
18:01.58 brlcad otherwise, "patches welcome"
18:06.25 ak_real hello people!
18:06.36 ak_real i'm a newcomer...
18:13.11 ak_real i would like to take part in GSoC and became a BRL-CAD developer... who should i contact to discuss that?
18:21.34 Maloeran If you have features or improvements in mind to add, I'm sure brlcad will welcome good patches
18:26.21 archivist lurk in here and join the mailing list
18:31.51 ak_real oh thx! where can i find mailing list?
18:32.14 ``Erik sf.net/projects/brlcad
18:45.24 IriX64 brlcad ty -M -F0 does nicely.
18:53.26 brlcad ak_real: you're in the right place.. but have to wait until orgs are announced
18:54.04 brlcad we're not guaranteed a slot, and might not be approved .. we find out later today
18:54.58 brlcad that said, even if we're not approved, there are independent job opportunities available ;)
19:00.45 ak_real it is interesting too, because i need some CAD-related practice for my school this summer...
19:02.08 brlcad we are really the only choice for open source CAD, but whether it's a direction google wants to support this year is of course up to them (we never applied before this year)
19:02.40 brlcad ak_real: what sort of project did you have in mind, and have you seen our ideas page?
19:10.06 ak_real yeah, i read it a lot of times :) i like the idea about BREP operations, because we had geometric modeling lectures at school and it's interesting to try them on practice
19:10.14 ``Erik hum, halfway down the page "The effectively amounts to..."
19:10.32 ``Erik (in dual-rep geometry support)
19:12.31 brlcad ak_real: ahh, excellent
19:12.45 brlcad that's actually one of the most interesting/appealing topics at the moment
19:14.03 ak_real it's strong math skills requirement there... i had such skills about 3 years ago, but now i may take a look in some books, am i right?
19:14.13 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056670.dsl.bell.ca)
19:14.24 ``Erik please to be chmod 775 on directory
19:14.53 ``Erik meh, I'll just sudo
19:15.14 brlcad all web content is owned by www
19:15.16 brlcad sudo -u www
19:18.13 brlcad more than pondering apparently
19:18.55 ``Erik for a in `jot 1000` ; do sudo -u www echo "eek, I'm being spied on!" ; done
19:19.32 brlcad ak_real: pretty strong math skills required .. but yeah, using a book to refesh wouldn't be uncalled for ;)
19:20.43 brlcad having it evaluate as fast as possible (e.g. real-time) is going to be the hardest part I fear
19:21.11 brlcad especially for arbitrary operations
19:22.20 ``Erik "Kaleido" ?
19:23.00 brlcad huh?
19:24.42 ``Erik in doc/IDEAS
19:24.54 ``Erik last one with numbered difficulty/time
19:29.10 brlcad ahhh
19:29.24 brlcad just a random idea
19:30.45 brlcad Kaleido is a nifty 3D geometry code that generates various mathematical shapes
19:31.50 brlcad would make for a sweet mged plugin for the math types
19:31.56 brlcad e.g. http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/data/
19:32.30 brlcad http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/dual.html
19:32.57 ``Erik hm, neat
19:33.15 brlcad would be even better as a direct primitive that would take those same equations as the parameters
19:33.28 brlcad to get all those shapes from one primitive.. sweet ;)
19:33.39 ak_real it's time to go to bed for me... see you tommorow... big THX for this warm chat ;)
19:33.53 ``Erik night, ak_real o.O
19:33.56 brlcad ak_real: nice talking to ya!
19:34.06 ak_real thx )
19:34.37 *** part/#brlcad ak_real (i=ak_real@87.249.59.53)
19:42.24 ``Erik heh, op-bw, neat
19:44.15 ``Erik yay, pi day
19:45.03 ``Erik just like warm apple pi
19:46.10 archivist home made lemon merangue pie
20:32.31 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (termcap.c tgoto.c tputs.c tputws.c): we don't provide the __RCSID macro that netbsd provided, comment it out.
21:05.41 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.17)
21:06.10 brlcad gaaaaaaaah
21:06.16 brlcad damn termlib
21:07.08 brlcad thought I had a successful compile last night, but turns out that the impl is based on a slew of functionality that is in BSD libc, not gnu's
21:07.20 brlcad so linux is giving major hissy fits
21:38.37 louipc wow over 10K downloads / month?
21:38.40 louipc where is everybody?
21:40.25 brlcad the vast majority aren't devs or otherwise interested in participating apparently
21:41.35 brlcad that's where I believe work on the website and modeler interface would do well to hook lots of folks' interest
21:42.10 louipc yeah that's what I just thought. They ran away after a taste of mged.
21:42.20 archivist sexy gui would make the real difference
21:45.23 louipc and java applets to look at models
21:45.31 louipc har har
21:54.31 *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669545.dsl.bell.ca)
22:23.23 brlcad louipc: heh, the guy that (mostly) wrote mged actually has that working .. (java applet)
22:24.35 brlcad never took it to a functional state though, just playing around and got some geometry up iirc (like 4 years ago)
22:29.00 ``Erik bob?
22:31.21 brlcad yeah
23:06.55 IriX64 that little 5-clicks thing does png.
23:08.23 IriX64 poor ValarQ ... I sent her image after image for a while :)
23:12.15 brlcad why would you do that?
23:14.14 IriX64 she asked
23:14.28 IriX64 so i did (did i screw up?)
23:15.14 IriX64 you said those pix are gnu licence.
23:17.04 brlcad she probably said "sure" to one image I bet.. and you let the flood gates open
23:17.37 IriX64 heh a few but i stopped when she asked me why i kept spamming her, thought she was interested.
23:17.57 brlcad see, if it comes to that .. then yes, you screwed up
23:17.59 IriX64 she turned me on to irssi remember
23:18.17 IriX64 man shwe was smiling...
23:18.24 brlcad i.e. being polite
23:18.41 IriX64 well whatever i got the message from her :)
23:19.34 brlcad one or two images might be interesting, especially if the content was novel/unique/interesting.. beyond that, why would they want 5, 10, 15 images?
23:19.48 brlcad especially when the first ones weren't really interesting
23:20.08 IriX64 you speak for her do you
23:20.13 brlcad i mean, i don't know what you sent.. they might have all been picaso's
23:20.22 brlcad of course I don't
23:20.28 brlcad i'm speaking in general
23:20.35 brlcad just curious why
23:20.48 brlcad because I frankly can't see why
23:20.54 IriX64 she asked and gave me an email address to send it to.
23:20.56 Maloeran I'm sorry to intrude, but who is the "her" being mentionned?
23:21.13 brlcad ValarQ
23:21.20 IriX64 ValarQ (not sure of gender)
23:21.53 IriX64 but i took it short for Valarie, although I shouldnt assume i guess.
23:33.52 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/.cvsignore: ignore the generated termcap file
23:34.31 IriX64 man don't you ever rest :)
23:35.49 IriX64 err wait what would that make me ;)
23:44.32 *** join/#brlcad cad28 (n=52f40aab@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:54.49 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (9 files):
23:54.49 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: revert the NetBSD libtermcap library. there are too many dependency woes
23:54.49 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: (getcap, db, fgetln, strlcpy) to make it work cleanly without bringing in all of
23:54.49 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: db too. it was only working well under the osx/bsd's because everything
23:54.49 CIA-7 BRL-CAD: happened to be available.

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