IRC log for #brlcad on 20070402

00:23.42 *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667512.dsl.bell.ca)
00:37.52 *** join/#brlcad rdvon (n=47e3ff3c@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:38.12 rdvon what is this brlcad?
00:38.31 rdvon ...
00:38.41 rdvon i cant join any other channels!!!
00:38.48 rdvon ...ugh...
00:39.01 rdvon well, this sux
00:39.19 rdvon maybe this app is worth talking about... it is 3d i presume.
00:39.23 rdvon better the blender?
00:39.32 rdvon thats what i use
00:39.37 rdvon blender.org
00:39.46 rdvon :D
00:39.56 rdvon ok, dont talk
00:39.56 rdvon haha
00:40.00 rdvon bye!
00:41.40 bjorkBSD hehehe
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02:16.28 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: stash argv[0]
02:16.44 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: emphasize any errors, separate out result.
02:19.26 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/Makefile.am: encourage finding init.tcl, set TCL_LIBRARY
02:24.54 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ampi.tcl ami.tcl):
02:24.54 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: the script wasn't correctly parsing multiple directory paths and also similarly
02:24.55 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: did not function with a distcheck or other compilation out of place. It still
02:24.55 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: has a problem if it cannot write to the source dir since the index is created
02:24.55 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: where the sources files are.
02:36.05 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c:
02:36.05 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: add support for running successfully from a distcheck and identifying the tcl
02:36.05 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: resources. also set tcl_library so that init.tcl is identified. add a
02:36.05 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: tclcad_tcl_library() routine for debug printing of what tcl_library is set to.
02:36.05 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: now only appends to auto_path if the dirs exist.
02:36.49 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: declare tclcad_tcl_library()
03:38.17 IriX64 heh
03:38.39 IriX64 trying my hand at gcc-4.3
03:40.25 IriX64 brlcad has been busy :)
03:41.32 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/comb.tcl: text widget option -tab is now an illegal abbreviation for -tabs (as of tcl 8.5). Changed -tab to -tabs.
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05:44.14 IriX64 http://www.pastebin.ca/420507
06:33.07 IriX64 egg on my face ... mea culpa
07:22.04 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:17.30 *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543992.dsl.bell.ca)
13:02.55 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/html_library.tcl: 8.5 now seems to use -tabs for text widgets instead of -tab
14:16.38 clock_ Is there some software that produces a metric thread for BRL-CAD?
14:16.54 clock_ Where I would say like 40mm of M5 thread?
14:17.36 brlcad hm, not really
14:17.54 brlcad you could do the math and use the pattern tool fairly easily, but it'd be a bit fugly
14:18.00 clock_ is it theoretically possible to produce a thread from BRL-CAD primitives without approximation?
14:18.33 brlcad yes, intersecting tori and/or pipe sections
14:18.57 clock_ how can a thread be done this way?
14:19.27 clock_ I can't imagine
14:19.49 brlcad the easiest way is to subtract a winding pipe from an enlarged cylinder iirc
14:20.04 clock_ so it reduces down to modelling a coil spring?
14:20.09 brlcad basically
14:20.23 brlcad since it's subtracted and tightly fit, you end up with a thread
14:20.31 clock_ and coil spring is a pipe, where the centerline is a helix?
14:20.54 brlcad there's a few threading patterns you can't create that way, but in general, it'll do basic bolt threadings
14:21.42 brlcad yes, basically
14:21.56 clock_ is it possible to specify a helix for the pipe primitive directly?
14:25.37 brlcad if you use a pipe, it's manual specification of the winding
14:25.54 brlcad using the pattern tool with half-tori would probably be easier
14:26.21 clock_ but half-tori are just an approximation of a helix, aren't they?
14:34.59 brlcad depends on the helix
14:35.32 clock_ now I am talking about spiral spring
14:35.52 clock_ x=cos angle, y=cos angle, z=const*angle
14:35.59 clock_ sorry y=sin angle
14:37.30 clock_ can such a helix be made from half-tori without distortion?
14:42.38 brlcad intuition says yes, but I'd have to test the math out on paper, or just try it
14:42.54 clock_ my intuition says that no
14:44.19 clock_ can I generate points on a spiral and then tell BRL-CAD to connect them with a pipe? What interpolation does BRL-CAD do?
14:44.38 clock_ bezier curve? b-spline? NURBS?
14:46.01 brlcad "can I generate points on a spiral and then tell BRL-CAD to connect them with a pipe?" => no, that's not how pipes are specified
14:46.18 brlcad they're specified as points and bend radii
14:46.35 brlcad volume III covers an example or two
14:47.34 clock_ the bend radii are specified in the points?
14:47.53 clock_ i. e. do I have 4 points and 4 radii, or 4 points and 3 radii?
14:49.09 clock_ or one could approximate the spiral from a set of circular slices, which would be stacked excentrically, the next one always rotated a bit.
14:49.35 clock_ and then ask BRL-CAD to put a slanted cylinder between the slices. Can I have slanted cylinders?
14:51.08 brlcad heh, sure
14:51.21 brlcad though that's a piecewise approximation
14:51.49 brlcad piecewise torii would be better still if cylinders worked
14:52.05 clock_ actually the shape of the thread could be programmed by using different oval than circle
14:52.07 brlcad since they can match the radius of the shaft being sliced
14:52.47 clock_ I guess if one converted the thread profile into polar coordinates, he would directly obtain the shape that needs to be stacked.
14:53.28 clock_ With pipes, do I have 4 points and 4 radii, or 4 points and 3 radii?
14:54.23 brlcad i have no idea what/which points you're referring to there to answer that correctly
14:54.35 clock_ the points and radii you mentioned
14:54.36 brlcad did you read the tutorial?
14:54.38 clock_ no
14:55.19 clock_ actually how one can make animation where something changes in the scene?
14:55.50 clock_ an animation that is not merely a flythrough of a static scene, but a scene where's something dynamically moving withing the scene?
14:56.00 brlcad you can either script and dynamicly change, or use "joints"
14:56.08 clock_ joints?
14:56.14 brlcad there's a joint primitive
14:56.27 brlcad it's a poor-man's constraint system
14:56.38 brlcad for simple movements
14:57.00 clock_ is the joint something like a hinge?
14:57.16 brlcad a hinge could be a joint, but joints are more generic
14:57.51 brlcad it's what's used in our animations where a tank maybe drives down a street, rotates a turret, fires, etc
14:57.53 clock_ so if I want 2 cubes, one stays and the other is approaching the first one, how many joints do I use and where do I put them?
14:58.07 clock_ never seen an animation of a tank in BRL-CAD
14:58.15 clock_ just the Stryker picture do you have public animations?
14:58.25 brlcad ah, true .. i suppose they're not on the site
14:58.35 clock_ they are secret and cannot be released?
14:58.44 brlcad no, just not readily available
14:58.57 brlcad I mean I have a whole drawer of tapes if you want to come on over ;)
14:59.07 clock_ punch tapes or magnetic tapes?
14:59.16 brlcad heh, vhs
14:59.22 brlcad and a few betamax
15:00.01 brlcad some were direct-to-tape, so they'd need to be digitized, others have a digital copy somewhere of the animation .. would have to hunt a bit
15:00.08 clock_ nice
15:00.14 clock_ what do you have?
15:00.22 clock_ tanks, what else?
15:01.07 brlcad of the releasable stuff .. mm, some missiles flying over terrain
15:01.36 brlcad all made quite a long while ago, and all just thrown together for a particular pupose
15:01.49 brlcad animation isn't really a strong point or high/frequent demand item
15:02.01 brlcad most of the tools for working with animations are a pita
15:02.32 brlcad really needs someone to revamped it all, new interface
15:02.36 clock_ For DIY instructions, animation can be very helpful.
15:03.41 clock_ Have you seen already this? http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php
15:04.00 clock_ It already gives people much better impression what shape Ronja actually has, than just some real installation pictures from a roof.
15:05.03 brlcad yep, love it
15:07.23 clock_ thanks
15:07.42 clock_ do you think it actually helps over series of real-life pictures?
15:07.55 brlcad actually, yeah, I think it does
15:08.17 clock_ even better would be a video in the style of the LEGO kit instructions
15:08.37 clock_ like Ronja in various stage of completion, where each stage would be turned once around so you can get an idea how it's put together
15:08.41 brlcad now to model the building/rooftop/whatever that it attaches to, then the city that the building is in, then the remove transmitter/receiver.. ;)
15:09.25 brlcad ah yes.. I should show you the tank video.. the tank is "assembled" in pieces with portions dropping in from the sky
15:09.41 clock_ wow
15:09.43 clock_ LEGO tank
15:10.07 brlcad the suspension system, the engine, the fuel/wiring, the crew, the body/armor, the turret
15:10.37 clock_ and then a rocket is fired at the tank and the tank disassembled, with pieces falling from the sky?
15:10.41 clock_ The crew, the...? ;-)
15:10.50 brlcad ``Erik: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/pearls/
15:11.51 clock_ do you have it in VHS or as digital data?
15:12.12 brlcad definitely vhs, dunno about digital
15:12.29 clock_ do you have a VHS player and a video capture card?
15:12.32 brlcad there are intentions to digitize them sometime anyways, just need to gather the equipment
15:13.10 brlcad maybe something to give to a summer student
15:15.11 clock_ If I have a thousand little cylindrical slices stacked, does it slow down BRL-CAD?
15:15.47 clock_ Does BRL-CAD have some clever efficient algorithm to actually deal only with those slices that are close to the ray fired?
15:18.47 brlcad there is spatial partitioning to keep things rendering quickly
15:19.05 clock_ something like a 3D tree?
15:19.09 brlcad though there's limits to what is possible.. it will invariably slow down some as more primitives are added
15:19.16 brlcad yes, very much a 3D tree
15:19.39 brlcad hybrid bsp tree of sorts
15:19.49 clock_ so the creator of the model doesn't have to bother if he needs a lot of primitives?
15:20.33 brlcad depends, like I said there are limits
15:20.46 brlcad and pathalogically poor construstruction hierarchies
15:21.13 brlcad e.g. if you just union 10,000 primitives, that's going to hit a limit
15:21.47 brlcad if there's a logical grouping, or ways to reference instead of replicate, that will help
15:25.48 clock_ if I do a brick, group it with mortar, then group a row of bricks and group a column of rows, and end up with 10,000 bricks, that's OK?
15:26.10 brlcad yeah, that should be fine
15:26.15 brlcad preferred even
15:26.33 brlcad just not 10k bricks all grouped into one object
15:26.51 brlcad there's a practical limit per-object to the number of members in a combination
15:27.09 brlcad and a counterpoint practical limit to how deep that hierarchy should get
16:42.02 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.17)
18:03.29 ``Erik /t new unified physics model: "Beer is good."
19:07.02 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-97.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:33.58 IriX64 http://www.pastebin.ca/421309 brlcad, is this me or you? been fighting it for a while.
19:37.22 IriX64 ``Erik shouldn't that be bier :)
19:43.03 ``Erik huh, broken tcl build... hain't seein' that on any other platforms to my knowledge o.O
19:43.34 IriX64 ty man sigh it *used to work :)
19:45.07 ``Erik you don't want to hear this... but maybe try doing a "make clean", then build...
19:45.29 IriX64 way ahead of you :)
19:45.34 IriX64 trying distclean
19:46.05 ``Erik distclean will purge the configure generated files
19:46.17 ``Erik are you working out of CVS, or the tarball?
19:46.21 IriX64 www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad < === if you want to see terra (rt bombs on it but it extracts)
19:46.25 IriX64 tarball
19:46.41 ``Erik might as well just delete the tree and re-extract, no point in 'mortal users' doing distclean
19:46.54 IriX64 heh ill try that
19:47.24 IriX64 when i screw something up i screw it up good eh ;)
19:47.55 ``Erik of course, if you extract it fresh and it fails, that obviously means you did something to break your environment... :)
19:48.30 IriX64 was playing with tcl/tk 8.5 those are now going bye bye
19:48.36 IriX64 8.5a5
19:48.38 ``Erik <-- has seen people argue that before *shrug* :)
19:48.59 IriX64 i don't argue ``Erik.
19:49.27 ``Erik 8.5a5 is the tcl/tk version in cvs at the moment I think... the tarball should have come with 8.4
19:49.51 IriX64 talking system library ``Erik
19:50.41 ``Erik ok, if you have issues binding to the system lib, there may be an API difference or internal behavior that'd cause naughtiness... if you see that, your best bet is to use --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build to use the included versions :/
19:51.08 IriX64 ty
19:52.25 IriX64 probably a conflict
19:52.57 ``Erik perhaps, or a broken system tcl... or *shrug* it may be worth looking into once things settle down a little :)
19:53.22 IriX64 i'm back where i wass if it builds ill let you know
20:06.20 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: subtract the "dry" run from cpu times for the "speedup" measure
20:08.01 CIA-14 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: a couple notes after meeting with twingy (adrt/libtie author)
20:10.22 IriX64 so when is brlcad going to ship with a new os to run it on :P
20:32.46 IriX64 libbu is building
20:34.36 IriX64 http://www.pastebin.ca/421416 <--- not a bug, just if you're interested
21:04.51 ``Erik um, if you want an OS where BRL-CAD works dandy without issue, feel free to download linux or freebsd, they can both be legally procured free of charge (and with minimal license constraint) and are OS's the developers actually touch...
21:11.06 IriX64 when you get brlcad ported to a pm app let me know :P
21:13.04 IriX64 http://www.pastebin.ca/421484 <----- where do i find out what this errno means?
21:13.57 IriX64 mmmm might still be me, don't jump the gun.
21:19.30 IriX64 http://www.pastebin.ca/421492 <---- something wrong here?
21:35.18 IriX64 http://www.pastebin.ca/421506 < --- I just did this to tcl and tk checklibs is my logic flawed?
21:37.21 IriX64 says it'll build it :)
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22:19.20 *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
22:22.32 IriX64 ~seen valarq
22:23.11 ibot valarq <i=vq@90-225-114-111-no122.tbcn.telia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 189d 3h 45m 15s ago, saying: 'you're filling my 0.5TB raid in my mailserver :P'.
22:23.11 IriX64 mmm is this supported?
22:24.04 IriX64 heh
22:29.19 IriX64 farkles....error12
22:29.42 IriX64 ampi.tcl, i wonder
22:30.42 IriX64 pkgindex.tcl
22:36.08 IriX64 nap time:) l8r
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