IRC log for #brlcad on 20070722

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02:24.10 poolio louipc: ah yeah, forgot about that, thanks
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11:53.27 thing0 hey
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13:14.08 Maloeran Hey, I haven't been around for some time. I'm trying to convert the Stanford .ply models to .g through ply-g but it gives me "This PLY file appears to contain no geometry!!!". Yet, with -v, it claims to find the vertices and indices. Any thoughts?
13:14.58 Maloeran Before I try to fix it or write my own converter, I'm just wondering if it could be a known glitch
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14:50.52 Maloeran Nevermind, got it
15:09.28 brlcad what was it?
15:09.43 brlcad and howdy Maloeran
15:10.42 Maloeran I was trying to convert the .ply point files, not the reconstructed triangle geometry :)
15:11.10 Maloeran I'm fine, cleaning up Rayforce a bit which Mark wants to present at Siggraph. Will you guys be there?
15:11.24 brlcad yeah
15:12.17 brlcad so you're presenting it at siggraph? a paper, a sketch, a poster?
15:12.39 Maloeran None of the above, Mark reserved a... booth, but I'm not too sure how that works
15:12.59 brlcad oh, heh .. interesting
15:13.09 Maloeran Just to present the software I guess, but I wonder if it's a whole day thing, or if I'll have time to wander around
15:13.21 brlcad sounds like it might be on the expo floor then
15:14.00 brlcad so are you attending, or just going for a day or two or?
15:14.14 brlcad do you know which day?
15:14.37 Maloeran I'm attending for the whole week, I just hope I won't have to stay at that booth thing for the whole time :)
15:14.51 brlcad ah, okay, cool
15:15.00 Maloeran I'll be bringing my desktop to run the demos on
15:15.08 brlcad you went last year iirc, yes?
15:15.39 Maloeran I didn't, I only went to the Interactive Raytracing and the other one about Visualization with you guys
15:16.14 brlcad oh, wow.. so this will be your first siggraph then? that should be fun
15:16.30 Maloeran So far, I didn't find these social gatherings very appealing
15:16.41 louipc you need more booze
15:16.55 Maloeran Verbal communication is great for the interactivity aspect, but I would rather read papers than listen to presentations
15:18.26 Maloeran Should I understand that Siggraph is generally more interesting than the conferences we went to at Salt Lake City and Baltimore?
15:18.26 brlcad to each their own, though siggraph is a bit different than rt07 and vis
15:18.42 brlcad siggraph is *huge* in comparison
15:19.18 brlcad way more variety, way more of everything (technical and non-technical, art and scientific, etc)
15:19.36 Maloeran Ah, sounds good
15:20.06 brlcad generally very beautiful and interesting to attend
15:20.56 brlcad so is mark attending too?
15:21.22 Maloeran Yes, and he's bringing his whole family! :) And, similarly, I'll bring my desktop
15:21.38 brlcad heh
15:21.50 brlcad well that should be interesting
15:22.47 Maloeran Is Erik coming as well? Lee, Justin?
15:23.03 brlcad that you know of, only myself and lee
15:23.18 Maloeran Ah, okay
15:24.04 brlcad any other guys going from your group?
15:24.39 Maloeran Hum, not that I'm aware of
15:25.22 brlcad bob or keith would be the only candidates that come to mind
15:25.41 brlcad but then never know what mark is up to sometimes :)
15:26.07 brlcad so what have you been up to? you sorta disappeared
15:26.17 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
15:26.51 Maloeran Ah yes, I think I unconsciously stopped the ritual of attaching irc clients, it was way too time consuming
15:27.19 Maloeran I used to help people for 1-3 hours daily on Efnet *shivers*. I have been busy with computational fluid dynamics mostly, it's very interesting, amazingly challenging
15:27.47 brlcad cfd work eh .. any pictures to show? :)
15:28.49 Maloeran None yet, but I'm really close to that.
15:29.34 Maloeran I spent about 2 months just learning the physics involved ; viscosity, turbulence, speed of sound... They want me to rewrite some horrible 50k lines Fortran code
15:30.00 Maloeran It's not just horrible, it's plain wrong ( no conservation of momentum, etc. )
15:30.06 brlcad and of course knowing you, you're almost done then :)
15:30.25 Maloeran Eh well, not exactly :), mostly because I'm aiming very high
15:30.50 Maloeran They didn't even have conservation of momentum... and I want to give them shockwaves, blasts, turbulence, viscosity
15:31.02 brlcad so what's to come of rayforce then? I imagine this demo at siggraph is mark's way to try and market it
15:31.36 brlcad or is rayforce development coming to an end as you move into cfd?
15:31.40 Maloeran I took a long break, I was saturated of Raytracing, I think I was beginning to feel physical pain when I tried to force me to work on it near the end
15:31.51 brlcad yeah, I got that
15:32.08 brlcad i mean that was noticeably visible even over irc that you were burning out
15:32.41 Maloeran Ah, quite true... Survice doesn't know that, but the first few months, I think I was doing nothing but work. I mean 60-80 hours a week
15:33.01 Maloeran Anyhow, regarding Rayforce, Mark has plans to integrate it into their software, Archer's successor, and see if there's commerical potential
15:34.08 brlcad interesting
15:35.01 brlcad but then I think that for most code that's not got an analysis association
15:35.56 Maloeran It's not really mainstream software, being open-source is not that... critical, if I may say. Besides, I'll certainly never allow the patents to get in the way of open-source developers
15:36.38 Maloeran ( Mark registered patents to my name on the techniques )
15:37.35 brlcad doesn't have to be mainstream to be intersting and useful :)
15:37.50 brlcad information wants to be free :)
15:38.31 Maloeran :) Oh, I agree. It may well end up open-source, I think Mark just wants to see if there's commercial potential at Siggraph
15:38.46 brlcad yeah, I got that much :)
15:39.55 Maloeran I have doubts myself, I don't think it performs that much better ( if at all better ) to Reschetov's latest code, or whoever else's. I haven't followed raytracing papers
15:39.57 brlcad he's unfortunately not got the demo connections to throw around at siggraph (I think) in order to make that happen
15:40.28 Maloeran He spoke of Dreamworks and some other group that are supposed to come by the booth
15:40.39 brlcad well he'll undoubtedly be at siggraph, you can just ask Reschetov :)
15:41.08 Maloeran Good point :)
15:43.12 Maloeran I'm surprised the Stanford models appear actually more costly to render than CAD geometry
15:43.42 Maloeran Only 30M rays/sec on that 70k triangles bunny, one third of the 140k triangles M1
15:44.04 brlcad they're mostly scan conversions, pathologically dense triangle surface sets
15:44.42 brlcad interesting models, but far from representative of anything other than scan-conversion geometry
15:44.47 Maloeran *nods* I thought this would produce good graphs since there are no long thin triangles, I guess that was wrong
15:47.03 *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:47.12 Maloeran On a completely different topic, is it safe enough to carry computer cases by plane? I would bring the hard drives with me
15:47.32 poolio mornin
15:47.34 brlcad safe enough?
15:47.44 brlcad don't see why not
15:47.55 brlcad i'll be taking my laptop and working on the plane
15:47.57 Maloeran Regarding damage to components from being thrown around, and I wouldn't want anyone at the luggage collection to just pick up the 3K$ case
15:48.18 brlcad oh, you mean like a desktop
15:48.19 Maloeran A laptop is different, you carry it with you ;)
15:48.21 Maloeran Yes
15:48.26 brlcad eek
15:48.31 brlcad good question
15:48.32 Maloeran A big and heavy desktop computer case
15:48.37 poolio where you guys headed?
15:48.56 brlcad poolio: siggraph in san diego
15:49.01 poolio hehe, enjoy
15:49.04 poolio when is that?
15:49.10 brlcad in about two weeks
15:50.08 Maloeran Any thoughts about carrying a case, brlcad? Or I could somehow ship it, but I'm not sure that's really better
15:50.11 brlcad Maloeran: I'd be rather uncomfortable sending a machine that way, I'd probably ship it
15:51.12 brlcad going to cost probably 50-100 to ship it each way, depending on the weight
15:51.22 Maloeran I still have the case's cardboard box and styrofoam, but it's clearly a box for a large computer case
15:51.55 brlcad well that's great then .. can put it in that box and take it to some place like dhl
15:52.31 poolio brlcad: are you doing a presentation at siggraph?
15:52.38 brlcad poolio: not this year
15:52.39 Maloeran So you would recommend this over bringing it as luggage
15:52.51 brlcad yeah, there is zero guarantee with luggage
15:53.07 brlcad it might come out fine, it might be destroyed
15:53.21 poolio Maloeran: just buy a sweet ass laptop like brlcad :)
15:53.33 brlcad it'd be a gamble, with the dice being thrown by someone that makes $10/hr
15:53.43 Maloeran I don't think there are 8 cores Clovertown laptops around here :)
15:54.10 Maloeran I see. Well, with the hard drives out... I don't know how resistant to shocks that stuff is
15:54.29 poolio Maloeran: geez. not fair. gimme one
15:55.00 poolio there's no chance you could borrow/rent/use someone elses nice desktop?
15:55.36 Maloeran It's more like a high-end server machine than a desktop
15:55.42 brlcad Maloeran: put it inside your luggage and then imagine throwing it outside a second-story building -- would you be comfortable with that?
15:55.52 brlcad that's a perfectly viable scenario that can happen
15:56.09 Maloeran Ouch, ouch.
15:56.29 Maloeran Okay, looking into DHL
15:57.55 brlcad it (should be) survice's dime, so it shouldn't matter .. better to just be safe, otherwise there is no demo
15:58.33 brlcad that 100 or so is dwarfed by how much it's costing to send two guys
15:59.19 Maloeran Right. If I ship it, that would free my hands to bring a bicycle too ; my hotel is 7 miles away
15:59.33 brlcad ouch
15:59.50 brlcad it's on the trolly route I hope?
16:00.09 brlcad is it a siggraph hotel?
16:00.34 Maloeran I think so, it was reserved indirectly from their site
16:01.22 brlcad the sheraton?
16:01.44 Maloeran Checking...
16:01.51 brlcad you might be in the same building as three other guys
16:01.55 Maloeran HILTON SAN DIEGO MISSION VALLEY
16:01.59 brlcad ahh
16:02.20 brlcad at least it's a little better
16:02.55 brlcad hopefully has internet, though you can generally hang out at the convention center until late on the wifi
16:03.06 Maloeran Do you know if there's some kind of shuttle service for all siggraph hotels?
16:03.20 brlcad there is shuttle service if it's a siggraph hotel
16:03.30 Maloeran Oh hum :), I actually gave my laptop to a friend who was leaving for Japan for 2 years, I was very rarely using it
16:04.18 Maloeran In a way, that's also why I'm bringing my desktop
16:05.32 Maloeran Well, it looks like I won't be able to raytrace a 28 million triangles model, malloc() refuses to cooperate
16:06.17 brlcad strap the desktop to your back, a UPS to your chest, and you're good to go!
16:07.10 brlcad Twingy was gonna do that one year with an O2 *ahem*, that woulda been fscking awesome :)
16:07.18 Maloeran Woohoo! And a bicycle of course, how else would a bring such a heavy E-ATX case?
16:07.25 Maloeran Hum :)
16:08.17 Maloeran Do you have any intelligent normal smoothing code somewhere in BRL-CAD?
16:09.05 Maloeran Something that considers angles between triangles, angles between facet vectors, to smooth and spawn new vertices when appropriate
16:10.19 Maloeran I wrote something a long time ago but it's brute force, it isn't meant for models of million triangles
16:10.22 brlcad rt_bot_smooth()
16:10.33 brlcad not sure how "intelligent" it is, but there is a routine for it
16:10.53 Maloeran Do you know if it will create new vertices rather than smoothing when appropriate?
16:10.56 brlcad it's in src/librt/g_bot.c at the end
16:11.49 brlcad no, it isn't going to create more vertices iirc
16:12.05 brlcad it just smooths the ones you have
16:12.19 Maloeran Right, it's a bit too primitive. It would create rather horrible results on a cube for example
16:12.31 brlcad basically:
16:12.32 brlcad <PROTECTED>
16:12.35 brlcad <PROTECTED>
16:12.39 brlcad <PROTECTED>
16:12.41 brlcad <PROTECTED>
16:12.54 brlcad because siggraph says miles :)
16:13.03 ``Erik ah
16:13.08 ``Erik 7mi ~= 10km
16:13.08 Maloeran Eheh Erik, the website said the hotel was 7 miles away. I have no idea what's that in km
16:13.24 ``Erik .62 miles = 1km
16:13.38 Maloeran Right, it's a long walk, or a tiring run
16:13.39 brlcad ibot: convert 7 miles to kilometers
16:13.57 ``Erik aboot ten, eh?
16:14.20 ``Erik is that hooked into the 'units' program?
16:14.30 brlcad beats me
16:14.35 brlcad have to look at blootbot's source
16:14.47 brlcad but probably
16:15.42 ``Erik something not addressed by most unit conversion packages... a bit trickier than the 0 base ones, but quite doable :(
16:16.03 Maloeran Erik, may I ask what's the official reason you aren't going to Siggraph this year? Since Sean and others are going
16:16.04 ``Erik if nothing else, grok kelvin vs C, and rankines vs F... ...
16:16.20 ``Erik because I'm not "special", and it's written into seans contract?
16:16.38 ``Erik I was on the initial list, but my bosses bosses bosses bosses bosses boss said "only 3 gov't people go"
16:16.44 ``Erik and I wasn't on that omfg list
16:17.28 ``Erik it's stupid, and one of the reasons I'm about ready to step back into the civil sector.
16:18.44 Maloeran Survice looks like a nice place from what I have seen, there are some challenging problems to solve
16:19.09 Maloeran They basically let me pick what I wanted to work on, and CFD looked fun :)
16:19.13 ``Erik there're always challenging problems, but I'm kinda lookng at going back to the midwest, I can afford a ferakin' mansion out there
16:19.58 ``Erik I have an offer for a very comfortable job there that pays the same as what I make now... "choose your own hours, work from home" etc
16:19.59 ``Erik ..
16:20.09 ``Erik I need to figure out where I'm going *sigh*
16:20.51 ``Erik I half suspect that if I land a decent job and regain the joy of coding, I'll be able to do more for brlcad than where I'm at now :/
16:21.25 Maloeran Are there any hopes of change within the ARL if you let managers know your dissatisfaction?
16:21.38 ``Erik <-- has a strong urge to link brlcad to the gaming group
16:21.39 Maloeran I can understand that :/
16:22.02 ``Erik um, I've let several layers of mgmt know my discontent in no uncertain terms several times
16:22.05 Maloeran Brlcad, gaming? These two concepts don't appear to mix too well
16:22.19 ``Erik brlcad to generate the game models and maps, :)
16:22.39 Maloeran And there's no effort to move you around internally where you would be happier?
16:22.42 ``Erik they'll put all sorts of insane pressure on mr brlcad to make it a user friendly modeling package, and mebbehe can sell it
16:22.56 ``Erik there is effort to accept me... there is resistance to release me
16:23.25 ``Erik so on tuesday, I need to do the "I'm leaving, pick where I go, arl or outside" speach
16:23.51 Maloeran Well, there's good people at Survice if you want to look that way. Mark is the opposite of the pointy haired manager stereotype
16:24.32 brlcad and have been for years, that's why it's priority #1 and pretty much all of the work going on even now has been towards solving that problem :)
16:24.39 ``Erik meh, if I escape gov't life, it'll be in a big way, I surpect
16:25.05 ``Erik hehehe, if game devers get into it, mebbe they'd throw their towel in teh ring and support it, other than bitching :)
16:25.28 ``Erik <-- thinks the biggest os boon would be to get serious attention from the videogame wannabees...
16:25.53 ``Erik and I like to imagine that I'm not too terribly wrong too terribly often
16:26.00 brlcad log cabin in the middle of nowhere with an OC128
16:26.52 poolio brlcad: poolio.org is up, thanks again
16:27.39 brlcad no problemo, nifty
16:28.47 brlcad which is what I've been doing all weekend so far
16:28.48 poolio brlcad: oh weird, it doesn't work for me, i get a blank page? what....? it worked fine last night :\
16:28.49 brlcad good stuff
16:29.37 brlcad poolio: it's working just fine here
16:29.47 brlcad maybe browser cache junk
16:29.55 poolio yeah appears to be
16:30.45 Maloeran Mmhm, gamedev. I had a strange urge to create a warcraft 3 map about two months ago ; I spent about 10 days sleeping only once every 2 days, that was... peculiar
16:31.00 Maloeran Their scripting language is actually very complete
16:31.43 ``Erik 'world of warcraft' seems to use lua
16:31.59 ``Erik I've also been acutely interested in 'bos' and 'danger from the deep'
16:32.14 ``Erik both have freendoe channels that I lurk... #bos and #dangerdeep :)
16:32.28 ``Erik getting mac builds of either is... highly interesting, as they both use scons
16:32.29 ``Erik :/
16:32.35 Maloeran I haven't heard of these. I just wanted to create a good, deep and long multiplayer campaign map
16:33.04 brlcad http://spring.clan-sy.com/
16:33.08 ``Erik dangerdeep is a semi-realistic ww2 sub sim, bos is kinda like a starcrafty clone
16:34.03 Maloeran Never heard of scons, and I mostly broke your autoconf stuff in Rayforce once again :). For some reason, it's compiling the same files 5 times, once for each binary
16:34.31 ``Erik 'scons' is a python make imitation, from people who don't understand portability trying to outdo autoconfs portability...
16:34.32 ``Erik :/
16:34.41 ``Erik it's a flaming piece of crap, imho.
16:35.00 ``Erik um, you must've used name prefixes
16:35.23 Maloeran I get .o files such as rfdemo-img.o, rfmaster-img.o, etc. for the img.c file
16:35.43 brlcad ah, you set FLAGS
16:36.06 Maloeran Ah yes, I set CFLAGS
16:36.08 brlcad since the cppflags/cflags can cause different compilation results
16:36.33 Maloeran I see, good point. Though, in this case, it doesn't actually matter
16:36.36 brlcad e.g. make CFLAGS="-DBEHAVE_DIFFERENT_FOR_RFDEMO"
16:37.20 brlcad set AM_CFLAGS instead of it should be global and the multicomp should go away iirc
16:37.36 brlcad s/of/if/
16:37.51 Maloeran Thanks, I'll try that
16:38.39 brlcad it's the rfdemo_CFLAGS that will usually cause the prefixed compilation results
16:39.49 Maloeran *nods* It works. I mostly broke Erik's autoconf stuff when I thrown SDL away to use X11 directly so I can do proper and efficient frame buffering
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16:40.52 Maloeran Do you know if X on OSX and other platforms have the Xxf86vm extensions?
16:42.07 brlcad I believe OS X has that, but should probably test for it in configure regardless
16:42.13 brlcad i think mplayer has a test for that
16:42.43 Maloeran configure is still testing for SDL at the moment, but I'll attempt to correct that
16:43.13 ``Erik what's so terribly wrong with sdl? O.o
16:43.44 ``Erik it's been used to make sprite based games that run over 60fps on very low end hw
16:43.48 Maloeran It's impossible to render multiple frames simultaneously without having to copy the whole data *twice* to get it visible
16:43.59 Maloeran Yes yes, it's all good as long as you render just one frame at a time
16:44.28 ``Erik hum, I thought there was a flag to set for 'direct' drawing, so double-buffering would be completely under developer control
16:45.19 Maloeran I dig far in the code, I even put out a quick patch to implement multiple frame buffers but the SDL developers weren't interested
16:45.41 Maloeran Because "Most people don't need that" and because "'S' stands for Simple"
16:45.59 ``Erik hum, did they say why?
16:46.25 brlcad reasonable test for Xxf86vm in http://profile.iiita.ac.in/smajumdar_00/xine/xine-ui-0.9.21/configure.ac
16:46.46 Maloeran I can imagine that most people only render one frame at a time, it's understandable, but that's not acceptable in my case
16:46.53 Maloeran Thanks brlcad
16:47.16 ``Erik I would imagine that if it ere argued coherently, sammy woulda picked it up :/
16:47.29 ``Erik he seems to be reasonable
16:47.56 Maloeran I don't think I had chatted with the lead programmer, just one of his minion
16:48.36 brlcad minion's are useless for getting core changes
16:48.47 ``Erik sam langtingua or whatever, that's the homey to talk to
16:48.52 ``Erik he watches the mailing list
16:49.29 Maloeran Before I wrote the code for it, I posted on the mailing list to ask for thoughts on the idea, the feature was "unlikely" to be implemented
16:49.49 ``Erik lame
16:49.56 Maloeran It required changes for every platform and I only did the X11 one, so I can understand why they were reluctant
16:50.06 Maloeran But anyway, things are working nicely using X11 directly
16:50.21 ``Erik nothing wrong with straight x11 if you're *nix only
16:50.22 ``Erik :)
16:50.30 Maloeran Exactly :)
16:51.05 ``Erik <-- has a couple striaght x11 programs in his devel/ tree
16:52.02 Maloeran *nods* So do I
16:52.23 Maloeran The documentation on the API and extensions is sometimes lacking, I found that a bit annoying
16:52.52 ``Erik <-- may be a weirdo, but truely enjoys saurkraut as a hot dog topping
16:53.11 Maloeran "This parameter is... a mask flag! And we'll let you guess the rest, what it's for and what values it can take."
16:53.24 ``Erik hehehe
16:56.31 Maloeran What could make AM_CFLAGS be ignored in a Makefile.am? Suddently, it's not added to the compilation lines anymore
16:58.00 Maloeran Ah nevermind, it's only automatic if no specific CFLAGS are specified for a binary. Got it
16:59.09 brlcad yeah, per-binary overrrides, you'd have to say you wanted them if you override like rfdemo_CFLAGS="${AM_CFLAGS} -O1000 -DYUM"
16:59.31 Maloeran *nods* Thank you
17:13.46 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177878662.dsl.bell.ca)
17:17.38 IriX64 errors everywhere and make keeps on trucking (my new and improved -i(gnore) switch works beautifullu)
17:17.59 IriX64 -u+y
17:19.50 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/Lm7x7L15.html < ---- see
17:21.07 poolio I think there's a reasons errors cause aborting
17:21.33 IriX64 there is but sometimes you know (ill fix it later type of thing)
17:22.02 IriX64 why let one bit of the project keep you from testing the rest
17:22.39 poolio well if the entire rest of the project depends on that part...
17:22.46 poolio IriX64: also, got my website up and running: poolio.org
17:22.56 IriX64 agreed then your hornswoggled
17:23.07 IriX64 http://poolio.org?
17:23.55 poolio jah
17:24.45 IriX64 hahah nice site (jokingly says needs fleshing out ) ducking and running :)
17:25.11 poolio it's minimal. not designed to be pretty or fleshed out. no need.
17:25.17 IriX64 better than mine
17:26.03 poolio never seen yours ;)
17:26.32 IriX64 heh yah you have its just got some files on it (supposed to put a page up but i'm lazy)
17:27.50 IriX64 maybe i'll re-install staroffice and design a page
17:28.21 IriX64 64bit staroffice? /me muses
17:31.28 IriX64 that disk crash did me good, I've never had so much fun putting things back where they're sposed to be, I'm about 50%recovered
17:32.08 Maloeran You should install Gentoo, you'll have a lot of fun constantly fixing stuff
17:33.36 IriX64 heh i'm busy enough as it is
17:34.14 poolio busy enough fixing windows constantly :)
17:34.24 Maloeran Recently, I just installed some package for a library, and... PAM broke with "Module not found" so it was impossible to log in, then fsck.ext3 had disappeared so it didn't want to mount the root partition, and a couple other pleasant discoveries
17:34.47 poolio livecd to the rescue?
17:35.00 Maloeran Installing that package just "removed" many critical pieces, even thought Portage still believed they were installed
17:35.16 Maloeran Ah, I fixed things manually, I know Linux enough by now :)
17:35.26 Maloeran even though*
17:35.30 poolio hmm, just switched over to debian from gentoo. really like it so far. apt-get upgrade is around 30x faster than emerge -u world
17:37.24 Maloeran I prefer to do things manually to a great extend, but there's something wrong when installing a library removes many chunks of critical software everywhere
17:37.53 poolio not the Gentoo Penguin?
17:38.07 Maloeran The Gentoo mascot is a cow, is it not? Or it used to be
17:38.26 poolio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_penguin
17:38.46 poolio http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml
17:38.48 poolio I think you're right
17:38.55 poolio named after a penguin, but their mascot is a cow, hmm.
17:39.14 IriX64 my mascot is #undef ;)
17:50.07 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/0cqq9B36.html are you interested in this? it's tedit in mged
17:53.08 IriX64 never mind its that wgl stuff
17:53.22 brlcad IriX64: no, i'm not interestd in that :)
17:53.30 IriX64 thought so :)
17:53.40 brlcad as it's a random error after you've provoked the build way too many times to get that far to be useful
17:54.01 IriX64 heh come its semi-useful :)
17:55.50 IriX64 provoked the build ... interesting is that why it's biting my hand off ;)
17:57.34 IriX64 btw i'm just exploring, and theres quite a bit of wgl stuff, dm_xvars.h and dm_wgl.h have issues
17:59.02 brlcad of course they do
17:59.16 brlcad it all stems from your configure tests not working as they are expected to
17:59.24 brlcad that has been the problem from the beginning
17:59.34 brlcad for months and months, it hasn't changed
17:59.36 IriX64 well I told you my system was strange
17:59.57 brlcad it doesn't matter if it's strange of now, it's just configure tests
18:00.08 IriX64 you indicated you wouldn/t mind me pasting the errors as they might prove usefull
18:00.10 brlcad the tests aren't doing what's expected, and until they do, this will be the case
18:00.33 brlcad i also said it entirely depends on how you get those errors
18:00.41 brlcad random errors are not useful
18:00.58 brlcad methodical ones done in progress can be if it's isolatable
18:01.21 IriX64 btw that tree still awairts you
18:01.25 IriX64 awaits too
18:01.26 brlcad if you edit *anything* that you've not been asked to edit, then it's a random error
18:01.46 brlcad if it's an error after *any* previous error, then it's effectively a random error
18:01.47 IriX64 good now we're clear
18:02.08 brlcad we've been "clear" a couple dozen times :)
18:02.26 IriX64 heh i know but at the very least its comic releif no:)
18:02.35 Maloeran Practice makes perfect!
18:02.49 IriX64 ill keep practicing
18:03.32 IriX64 thanks for letting me hang out is what i'm trying to say here.
18:04.33 brlcad you could be so much more productive on brl-cad if you simply wanted to be, and gave yourself credit when it was due for effort you do put in that helps
18:05.38 brlcad if your build environment were working, you'd probably be a great regression tester :)
18:05.46 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/OheeIZ16.html <--- thanks, this is more fun, make did it i really don't think itll run that was supposed to be a mingw32 build :)
18:06.42 brlcad i think you might have missed about four periods there :)
18:07.16 IriX64 heh
18:09.22 IriX64 looking for the jove.exe, it's not there i wonder why :)
18:11.18 Maloeran Yay, typical. SSE3 added wonderful instructions such as haddps for horizontal adding... except that it's slower than the sequence movaps,shufps,addps which produces the same result
18:12.36 IriX64 you using a dissasembler Maloeran?
18:14.26 Maloeran No, trying to optimize some code
18:19.41 IriX64 by hand? kudos
18:21.15 IriX64 which processor, may I ask?
18:21.26 Maloeran Yes although I'm mostly trying to get GCC to produce good code from C instead. As always, it's not going too well, GCC is rather stupid regarding register allocation and memory aliasing
18:21.29 Maloeran Xeon Clovertown
18:22.10 IriX64 16? or 8?
18:22.46 Maloeran Hum, I don't understand the question
18:22.53 IriX64 gcc? what version supports that?
18:23.33 Maloeran Ah, I'm using gcc 4.1.2 but the mtune optimisation swich is -mtune=nocona, the same as Core 2 chips
18:23.41 IriX64 doesn't matter im in over my head anyway :)
18:24.26 IriX64 mine is a simple opteron
18:24.54 IriX64 but im trying for global coverage instead of targetting one processor
18:27.24 IriX64 although -march=opteron -mtune=opteron works here
18:27.31 IriX64 err =
19:04.47 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-079.pools.arcor-ip.net)
21:02.13 louipc What's a good way to describe BRL-CAD as powerful without actually using the word? It seems too many packages use that magic word.
21:02.56 ``Erik 'big hairy balls'
21:03.21 ``Erik it has over 400 specialty tools built on it *shrug*
21:03.35 louipc comprehensive? hah
21:03.53 louipc hmm
21:05.31 louipc extensive!
21:20.47 ``Erik *shrug* throw the #'s out? 30 years in the making, over 400 binaries, ... *shrug*
21:38.49 louipc that might work
21:41.01 ``Erik is it just me, or is mia kirshner totally rompable? O.o
21:41.37 louipc oh yeah
21:42.49 ``Erik 'not another teen movie' is on comedy central...
21:43.00 louipc heheh

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