| 00:04.38 | poolio | brlcad: No music? Lame. |
| 00:04.54 | dtidrow | heh |
| 00:50.28 | yukonbob | brlcad: cool |
| 00:57.07 | brlcad | unfortunately it's entirely unoptimized to shoot high numbers of shadow rays, but it at least will let you now |
| 00:58.01 | brlcad | I should render something like m35 or havoc with that many shadow rays to see the difference |
| 01:03.09 | poolio | eek. how long would that take? |
| 01:03.55 | brlcad | dunno, depends how many shadow rays, how big a picture, etc |
| 01:07.20 | yukonbob | brlcad: how was siggraph, btw? |
| 01:08.16 | brlcad | it was great, loads of great papers |
| 01:08.30 | brlcad | one in particular for generating cutaway diagrams that I liked |
| 01:08.35 | yukonbob | lots of new ideas for optimizations and new features? |
| 01:09.48 | brlcad | heh, yeah.. loads |
| 01:10.23 | brlcad | most of the stuff that we can directly use and benefit from outright we've known about for years -- just a matter of folks and doing the work |
| 01:10.54 | brlcad | most of our biggest "win" ideas aren't even that technical though |
| 01:11.09 | brlcad | like a better (i.e. easier to learn/use) modeling interface |
| 01:11.40 | brlcad | real-time shaded displays, consistent graphical interface |
| 01:12.41 | yukonbob | indeed. |
| 01:12.46 | yukonbob | hey, q: re usage |
| 01:13.39 | yukonbob | when you say "shoot a ray" -- what does that mean -- it detects where it collides with "something" in the model? |
| 01:13.49 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:14.12 | yukonbob | ?is "shot" like a vector start x,y,z, deltas x,y,z |
| 01:14.49 | brlcad | hm? deltas? |
| 01:15.05 | brlcad | a ray basically is a vector with a position and a direction |
| 01:15.32 | brlcad | shooting it basically asks/answers the question of what lies along that vector |
| 01:15.33 | yukonbob | right --- the directions are what I mean w/ deltas (change) |
| 01:15.54 | yukonbob | can things be traced with reflection/refraction as well? |
| 01:15.58 | brlcad | so you can talk about the first hit, segments, what objects are on a given shotline |
| 01:16.56 | brlcad | yes, that's what the ray-tracer does |
| 01:17.16 | brlcad | when it hits a surface with a given ray, it looks at the properties of what it hit |
| 01:17.25 | yukonbob | so you've got all the typical ray-tracer facilities available in your single ray that you can query. |
| 01:18.20 | brlcad | if the ray being first is for rendering an image, for example, and it hit something reflective, it'll then shoot a reflected ray to compute the light contribution from the reflected source |
| 01:20.27 | brlcad | a couple of the distinctions of BRL-CAD's ray-tracers and the librt ray-tracing library is that it'll 1) handle *everything* along a given shot line (not just the first hit) and 2) it handles implicit geometry along with CSG (instead of just explicit models (e.g. polygonal meshes)) |
| 01:22.28 | brlcad | there are other particular details, like brl-cad's multispecral library for dealing with non-visible light spectrums, but that's a differenent subject altogether |
| 01:22.43 | brlcad | rays themselves are pretty simple, as is shooting a ray |
| 01:23.09 | yukonbob | so much to learn ;) |
| 01:23.10 | brlcad | it's rather mathematical/simple in that it just answers the question, what does this ray encounter |
| 01:23.25 | brlcad | what happens when it does encounter something is entirely up to the given application |
| 01:24.02 | yukonbob | brlcad: could the ray say: once I encounter this, how much material would I go through if I kept on going, not stopped, reflected or refracted? |
| 01:24.12 | brlcad | for 'rt', it's trying to make a picture, so it works with our optics library and deals with reflections, diffusion, refraction, etc and simulates light transport (i.e. traditional image rendering ray-tracing) |
| 01:24.53 | brlcad | for analysis codes, the rays might be infrared energy (which has entirely different behaviors), or might even be something like a bullet or a fragment being simulated |
| 01:25.46 | brlcad | yes, the ray can say that -- and almost that exact question is what is performed in the MUVES-S2 analysis simulation that directly ties to BRL-CAD for V/L analyses |
| 01:27.04 | yukonbob | v/l? |
| 01:27.11 | brlcad | vulnerability/lethality |
| 01:27.18 | yukonbob | ah. |
| 01:28.23 | yukonbob | so awesome... thanks mike muuss, and sean (and everybody)... amazing piece of work. |
| 01:29.02 | brlcad | more simply, though, that's even the same question that's effectively answered if you wanted to simulate an xray machine .. how far the xrays can penetration depend on the types of materials, how thick they are, etc |
| 01:29.29 | brlcad | s/penetration/penetrate/ |
| 01:30.00 | yukonbob | apps like that would be custom-linked into libs though, right? |
| 01:30.12 | yukonbob | *custom-built and linked |
| 01:30.13 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 01:31.13 | yukonbob | with a bog-standard distro, can I come up w/ an xray model for a material w/o writing more software? Obviously I'll need to do my materials analysis, and waveform anaylsis, but otherwise, how tough? |
| 01:31.19 | brlcad | you'd have to write the driving application that encodes the physics of whatever you're trying to simulate (an xray simulation isn't the same as a radar simulation nor the same as simulating a v/l analysis, etc) |
| 01:32.26 | brlcad | well, in this case, brl-cad does already have an x-ray simulating renderer |
| 01:32.37 | brlcad | rtxray |
| 01:32.49 | brlcad | as well as thermal and a handful of others |
| 01:33.13 | yukonbob | so, based on the rtxray code, I could write an rt-alien-laser app, if I knew how alian lasers worked |
| 01:33.17 | yukonbob | *alien |
| 01:33.27 | brlcad | they become much easier to write once you have a simple/good ray-tracing interface that you can write to (which is the point of librt) |
| 01:33.34 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:33.45 | yukonbob | good to know when "they" come.... |
| 01:34.16 | brlcad | it's actually not too complicated at all if you know C |
| 01:34.31 | yukonbob | WE'RE READY FOR YOU... no wait a bit... we're compiling... OK.. NOW WE'RE READY FOR YOU!! |
| 01:34.54 | brlcad | there's some basic info at http://brlcad.org/example_app.php for example, the second link just opens a .g geometry file and shoots a ray at the model |
| 01:36.23 | poolio | Checkout beset for similar examples :) |
| 01:36.42 | poolio | g_qa.c in src/gtools/ is also good |
| 01:37.05 | brlcad | beset does considerably more :) |
| 01:37.29 | yukonbob | beset == the GA that's being worked on here, right? |
| 01:37.42 | poolio | yeah. but it initally fires rays at a model and stores them. |
| 01:37.55 | yukonbob | ?so can the rays physically affect the models |
| 01:37.59 | poolio | Probably not the best thing to look at, I just like selling crappy code. |
| 01:38.03 | poolio | No. |
| 01:38.10 | poolio | Well, you could code them so that they would |
| 01:38.42 | poolio | But shooting a ray at an object will not modify the database object |
| 01:45.20 | brlcad | you could easily write an application that fired rays and modeified the geometry as part of the process (so you could have a FPS shooter game, for example, where you shoot at things and it actually leaves holes or blows things up or chips away at them, etc) |
| 01:48.22 | yukonbob | didn't even realize that those words were coming from you at first ;) |
| 01:55.52 | poolio | hi yukonbob. I'd ignore my words and go for brlcad. he knows ... a tad bit more :) |
| 01:56.56 | poolio | There was some real-time raytracing FPS thingy sometime recently |
| 01:57.02 | yukonbob | w/ brlcad? |
| 01:57.38 | yukonbob | btw, I wasn't ignoring your words -- just wasn't looking at < poolio> versus <@brlcad> :) |
| 01:59.14 | brlcad | ray-tracing's being used in several games now, and will probably dominate before too long |
| 01:59.49 | brlcad | even the video card makers have started to provide the hooks so that you can perform ray-tracing on the GPU now easily enough for most rendering purposes |
| 02:00.42 | yukonbob | are you talking about GL? |
| 02:11.35 | brlcad | nope |
| 02:11.36 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: nirt/query_ray reports intersection messages in triplicate if the shot routines miss but still print out messages |
| 02:11.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: comments and curlies |
| 02:11.59 | brlcad | talking about video cards actually doing ray-tracing to generate the display image |
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| 07:23.26 | brlcad | ah yeah, there he is just earlier today |
| 07:23.36 | brlcad | ~ww |
| 07:23.37 | ibot | Wrong Window. |
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| 09:06.24 | yukonbob | ~wtf |
| 09:06.31 | yukonbob | ~botsnack |
| 09:06.31 | ibot | thanks, yukonbob |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/librt/g_rec.c): |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: fixed a bug encountered when ray-tracing really tiny TGC objects (sub-millimeter |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: size) caused by the REC prep routine thinking it was a valid right elliptical |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: cone (when it wasn't). the problem was due to a bad magnitude check and an |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: insufficient hard-coded 'smallness' constant. the result was rays that would |
| 09:06.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: miss portions of the tgc entirely, only counting the 'middle' portion that would |
| 09:06.42 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: have corresponded with an REC. |
| 09:07.20 | yukonbob | ~wtf ath |
| 09:07.29 | yukonbob | ~wtf ls |
| 09:07.59 | brlcad | ~ath |
| 09:08.11 | yukonbob | hey brlcad |
| 09:08.14 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 09:08.37 | yukonbob | I made a bot that interfaced to wtf as well, but notice that they interface to their own db, as well as manpages, etc. |
| 09:08.43 | yukonbob | ~wtf dd |
| 09:09.10 | yukonbob | ~wtf SMP |
| 09:09.23 | brlcad | yeah, to an extent |
| 09:09.35 | brlcad | ~smp |
| 09:09.35 | ibot | it has been said that smp is (Symmetric Multi Processing) This refers to a technology where a computer uses multiple processors to process different instructions at the same time, in separate processing units. It is a form of parallel computing.. A feature of an SMP system is that it uses shared memory between all the processors, rather than each processor having ... |
| 09:09.54 | yukonbob | ~tuning |
| 09:10.03 | yukonbob | ~wtf tuning |
| 09:10.24 | brlcad | there's a different command to ask it more general terms.. |
| 09:10.25 | yukonbob | ~wtf security |
| 09:10.38 | brlcad | forget the name atm, though |
| 09:10.54 | brlcad | ibot: literal wtf |
| 09:10.55 | ibot | "where" is "<reply> who?" |
| 09:11.13 | yukonbob | ~wtf rmmod |
| 09:11.24 | yukonbob | now I know it's running on a linux box... |
| 09:11.39 | yukonbob | ~wtf deb |
| 09:11.40 | brlcad | yeah, tim's a debian nut |
| 09:11.45 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 09:13.18 | yukonbob | I've got a bot interface silc->wtf, and noticed that it grabs info from the manpages as well... might be able to constrain w/ 'wtf -f <database>', but I'm not sure if it constrains or not... |
| 09:13.46 | yukonbob | ~wtf bind |
| 09:13.53 | yukonbob | ~wtf named |
| 09:14.00 | yukonbob | ~wtf php |
| 09:14.04 | yukonbob | ~wtf php5 |
| 09:14.11 | yukonbob | ~wtf php4 |
| 09:14.55 | brlcad | ~whatis named |
| 09:15.10 | brlcad | ~apropos php |
| 09:15.10 | ibot | php: nothing appropriate |
| 09:15.56 | yukonbob | ~apropos http |
| 09:15.57 | ibot | http: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.04 | yukonbob | ~apropos perl |
| 09:16.05 | ibot | perl: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.10 | brlcad | ~apropos list |
| 09:16.10 | ibot | list: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.13 | yukonbob | ~apropos python |
| 09:16.14 | ibot | python: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.15 | brlcad | *shrug* |
| 09:16.19 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 09:18.34 | brlcad | (speaking of perl, blootbot is written in perl) |
| 09:18.47 | yukonbob | is ibot a blootbot? |
| 09:18.58 | brlcad | ~ibot |
| 09:18.59 | ibot | methinks ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 09:19.21 | yukonbob | ~wtf tcl |
| 09:19.24 | yukonbob | ~wtf tclsh |
| 09:19.33 | yukonbob | ~apropos tcl |
| 09:19.34 | ibot | tcl: nothing appropriate |
| 09:19.38 | brlcad | i don't think wtf does what you think it does :) |
| 09:19.39 | yukonbob | ~apropos sqlite |
| 09:19.40 | ibot | sqlite: nothing appropriate |
| 09:19.56 | yukonbob | ~wtf iptables |
| 09:20.03 | brlcad | other than that |
| 09:20.12 | brlcad | :) |
| 09:20.19 | brlcad | factinfo wtf |
| 09:20.22 | brlcad | ~factinfo wtf |
| 09:20.22 | ibot | there's no such factoid as wtf, brlcad |
| 09:20.45 | brlcad | ~kernel |
| 09:20.53 | yukonbob | ! |
| 09:20.56 | yukonbob | ~rootpass |
| 09:20.59 | brlcad | heh |
| 09:21.24 | brlcad | that's just saying which are available/current |
| 09:21.59 | brlcad | ~nickometer yukonbob |
| 09:22.11 | brlcad | ~nullski |
| 09:22.17 | yukonbob | I guess thats good... |
| 09:22.23 | brlcad | :) |
| 09:22.32 | brlcad | it does more interesting things on folks with lame nicks ;) |
| 09:22.56 | brlcad | doesn't take to kindly to use of punctuation and certain styles of case |
| 09:23.02 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter brlcad |
| 09:23.03 | ibot | brlcad is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.18 | yukonbob | heh -- that's gotta be hardcoded |
| 09:23.23 | brlcad | heh |
| 09:23.26 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter poolio |
| 09:23.26 | ibot | poolio is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.33 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter joe |
| 09:23.33 | ibot | joe is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.44 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter l33td00d |
| 09:23.45 | ibot | l33td00d is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.47 | brlcad | ~literal nickmeter |
| 09:24.04 | brlcad | ~nickometer l33td00d |
| 09:24.16 | brlcad | nickOmeter ;) |
| 09:24.30 | brlcad | ~factinfo nickmeter |
| 09:24.30 | ibot | there's no such factoid as nickmeter, brlcad |
| 09:24.38 | yukonbob | ~nickometer brlcad |
| 09:24.44 | yukonbob | better |
| 09:24.51 | yukonbob | ~nickometer poolio |
| 09:24.59 | yukonbob | ~nickometer joe |
| 09:25.14 | brlcad | he does have me hard coded for a few things |
| 09:25.33 | brlcad | probably because we don't see eye to eye on lots of issues, but probably half joke too |
| 09:25.48 | brlcad | ooh |
| 09:25.55 | brlcad | ~piglatin hello, how are you |
| 09:26.19 | brlcad | ~slashdot |
| 09:26.39 | brlcad | ~uptime |
| 09:26.51 | yukonbob | ^-- that's what I need to get my silcbot to do -- |
| 09:26.56 | yukonbob | (slashdot) |
| 09:27.06 | brlcad | ~zippy hello |
| 09:27.21 | brlcad | ~zippy |
| 09:27.32 | brlcad | ~zsi |
| 09:27.58 | brlcad | ~insult yukonbob |
| 09:28.14 | yukonbob | !nice |
| 09:28.35 | brlcad | ~lart yukonbob |
| 09:28.35 | ibot | takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in yukonbob's direction, hitting yukonbob and sending yukonbob flying into the closet |
| 09:28.36 | yukonbob | bottricks ;) |
| 09:28.48 | brlcad | ~botsnack |
| 09:28.48 | ibot | :), brlcad |
| 09:30.26 | yukonbob | ~lart laniakea |
| 09:30.27 | ibot | slaps laniakea upside the head with a wet fish |
| 09:31.03 | brlcad | some of the best features are bzflag-specific as well as just ibot's pretty extensive factoid database |
| 09:31.13 | brlcad | probably one of the biggest if not the biggest around |
| 09:31.35 | brlcad | as it's been up and running in dozens of highly popular channels for nearly a decade now |
| 09:31.42 | yukonbob | ?bzflag, as in my favourite tank game |
| 09:31.49 | yukonbob | ~bzflag |
| 09:31.50 | ibot | from memory, bzflag is a 3D internet multiplayer multiplatform (win32, linux, mac, etc) opensource opengl Battlezone capture the flag game of the same name that you must try at http://BZFlag.org/ or a continual development project with periodic gaming interuptions. See also TimRiker |
| 09:32.00 | brlcad | ~bzflist |
| 09:32.24 | brlcad | wow, that's low, but I suppose it is late |
| 09:32.31 | brlcad | that's a live query |
| 09:32.38 | brlcad | there are 81 people playing right now |
| 09:32.56 | brlcad | usually it's around 200 24/7 |
| 09:33.50 | brlcad | bzflag is where I spend the rest of my time on-line, leading up development efforts there |
| 09:34.39 | brlcad | ~x en es it is almost time to sleep |
| 09:35.27 | yukonbob | well -- I used to spend more time w/ BZFlag, but not in a while... NetBSD is just getting DRM/DRI that will hopefully "stick" this time... |
| 09:36.42 | yukonbob | ?is tim involved with ARL, or just BRLCAD, or neither (or both)? |
| 09:36.57 | brlcad | none |
| 09:37.08 | brlcad | tim's not even really involved with bzflag any more |
| 09:37.22 | brlcad | he's not been involved in development for several years now |
| 09:38.22 | brlcad | http://www.ohloh.net/projects/189/analyses/latest/contributors |
| 09:38.56 | yukonbob | you're winning ;) |
| 09:38.58 | brlcad | a little misleading as our ohloh stats have been offline for the past five/six months |
| 09:39.22 | brlcad | he's still flat-lined though (just others have had plenty, mine picked up substantially for example) |
| 09:39.36 | brlcad | ah, I had him passed up a couple years ago |
| 09:40.42 | brlcad | reminds me that I need to figure out why our svn repo won't process |
| 09:50.21 | yukonbob | :) |
| 09:50.33 | yukonbob | anwyay -- I think I'm off to bed... |
| 09:50.40 | brlcad | yeah, me too |
| 09:50.40 | yukonbob | talk later brlcad :) |
| 09:50.44 | brlcad | cya bob |
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| 14:06.09 | ertugerata | salut |
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| 14:46.36 | ertugerata | salut poolio |
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| 17:21.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/shoot.c: make sure there is a hit routine to call, otherwise it's a miss |
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| 18:42.31 | ertugerata | salut |
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| 19:54.38 | ``Erik | brlcad, do you exist? |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: rework the quadratic root solver to handle some additional exceptional cases |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: where either the coefficients or the discriminate are zero. ideally we could |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: presume we're solving equations that don't have floating point fuzz, and could |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: check for for ieee zero equivalence but alas we cannot without causing |
| 20:00.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: additional instability. |
| 20:00.54 | brlcad | ``Erik: sometimes |
| 20:06.25 | ``Erik | gonna be in on monday? |
| 20:07.39 | ``Erik | I surspect ed is walking to his office to call you to see if you'll be in on monday morning, heh |
| 20:09.08 | brlcad | yes, I wil |
| 20:09.56 | ``Erik | ok, I'll let him know so he doesn't call ya :) |
| 20:13.09 | ``Erik | he sent you an email saying why and when |
| 20:18.02 | brlcad | i'd just e-mailed him as well |
| 20:56.16 | PrezKennedy | i hate printers |
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| 22:26.10 | dtidrow | evening all |
| 22:26.46 | dtidrow | what's a good starter book for Tcl/Tk? |
| 22:38.33 | yukonbob | dtidrow: Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk is good. |
| 22:39.09 | yukonbob | as is the wiki... wiki.tcl.tk |
| 22:39.13 | yukonbob | and #tcl on freenode |
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