| 01:42.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: include deprecation.txt in dist |
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| 04:52.30 | brlcad | the baseline for sphereflake isn't normalized to the vax |
| 04:53.00 | brlcad | that's part of why it's pretty exciting getting a baseline vgr of 1 again so that sphflake can be renormalized |
| 04:55.37 | poolio | So is legacy code always going to be a part of BRL-CAD so you can establish a baseline vgr? |
| 04:56.39 | yukonbob | brlcad: you see my report about the artifacts still there w/ the rotated pipe (using latest (few hours old) HEAD (7.10.3)) |
| 04:57.37 | brlcad | poolio: no, the code has already changed quite dramatically .. but the baseline can still be run -- just using the old sources and/or old binaries |
| 04:57.47 | brlcad | the harder part is getting access to a vax :) |
| 04:57.58 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, I saw, but havne't looked at that |
| 04:58.15 | brlcad | i'm not exceptionally familiar with the pipe code .. that's more john's area |
| 04:58.31 | yukonbob | so long as it gets to where it needs to be... |
| 04:58.35 | brlcad | knee-jerk reaction is "don't do that" :) |
| 04:59.24 | yukonbob | heh -- I can shake the artifacts off w/ rot 0 1 0;rot 0 -1 0 |
| 05:00.37 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: 'summary' just retains the latest performance summary with the first line being a "Ray Trace Figure of Merit" (RTFM) that sort of amounts to rays per second, and the second line being the linear metric comparison to the base (called vgr) which amounts to how many VAX 11/780's you're machine's worth computationally |
| 05:00.42 | yukonbob | so I'm running 7.10.3 -- is that the latest fully buildable version -- you mentioned 7.11 was branched, but it's really near the start of it's life isn't it (only a few files present)? |
| 05:01.17 | brlcad | yeah, 7.10.3 is the latest, 7.11 is what's on head now, but it's not changed wrt pipes |
| 05:01.54 | brlcad | yeah, you are |
| 05:02.06 | yukonbob | have fun in California |
| 05:02.14 | brlcad | looks like it's just a refresh of the display list needed |
| 05:03.02 | brlcad | i.e., it's not "really" shifted like that .. just displaying the wireframe wrong |
| 05:03.30 | yukonbob | in 7.8.3 at least, unloading/reloading the db preserved the bad display... was weird. |
| 05:37.10 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r238 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientCommands.cpp: Fixed the op()/deop() bug. sf.net bug 1807356. |
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| 09:15.22 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: looks like now something changed in brl-cad. |
| 09:15.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: because I did CVS update and now it renders the "poisonous" ronja_new better. |
| 09:15.52 | Z80-Boy | Before the arbn was missing in the triangular plate |
| 09:16.00 | Z80-Boy | Now it's present but is bigger than should be |
| 09:16.12 | Z80-Boy | Looks like it has again something to do with unnormalized equation |
| 09:16.38 | Z80-Boy | Because the one boundary plane that is placed too much out is the one that was entered as not normalized . |
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| 10:12.57 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r239 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Some minor clean and typo fixes. |
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| 17:04.35 | brlcad | having trouble _jack- ? |
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| 17:11.08 | yukonbob | you in Cali now? |
| 17:21.34 | brlcad | nope |
| 17:21.52 | brlcad | i'm 70%, landed in Pheonix AZ .. |
| 17:21.59 | brlcad | and it looks like my flight to san jose is now delayed by at least an hour |
| 17:23.36 | Maloeran | Neat, are you going there on vacation? |
| 17:25.12 | brlcad | nah, google's sending me out for the summer of code summit |
| 17:25.23 | MinuteElectron | google? |
| 17:25.27 | brlcad | yeah |
| 17:25.33 | MinuteElectron | neat |
| 17:25.37 | Maloeran | Ah, interesting |
| 17:26.29 | brlcad | they'll be a rep from about 70% of the projects that participated: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/ |
| 17:27.05 | MinuteElectron | I can't wait until SoC 2008, maybe that time I will actually find out about it in time to participate in a project. |
| 17:27.09 | brlcad | there are a few devs I know in AU that are coming in for the summit too, looking forward to it |
| 17:27.16 | brlcad | ... though going to AU is way cooler ;) |
| 17:27.40 | MinuteElectron | indeed |
| 17:28.14 | Maloeran | :) I'll be going alone despites getting married in just 8 days, but I sure need the vacation and she's busy with her studies anyhow |
| 17:28.31 | brlcad | do you have a big countdown clock? |
| 17:28.36 | brlcad | the beginning of the end of your life ;) |
| 17:29.08 | Maloeran | Eheh |
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| 20:25.14 | jgay | hi, i'm from the Free Software Foundation, and we are thinking of puting BRL-CAD on our urgent list of software to be developed. Could anyone field a few questions? |
| 20:27.12 | MinuteElectron | Most of the people who hang around here are in and out all the time. brlcad is your main man but a few others have experience too. |
| 20:27.54 | jgay | MinuteElectron, cool. My questions are simple, though. Mainly, I was just wondering how active the project is |
| 20:28.38 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: You here? |
| 20:29.50 | jgay | I mean, it seems like the best free software CAD program out there. And, it seems like the only one that is actively being developed. But, I'm not the best judge. |
| 20:30.37 | jgay | We generally have success in finding new developers for projects, so, if there is any advice on what kinds of developers you are looking for, etc, that'd be good. |
| 20:30.58 | MinuteElectron | You might have to wait a while, I don't really have the authority to answer questions regarding such things. I am just the website developer. |
| 20:31.45 | MinuteElectron | brlcad is currently on his way to California so probably won't be active for a good few hours\days. |
| 20:32.14 | jgay | oh ok |
| 20:32.20 | dtidrow_work | what's he going out there for? |
| 20:32.34 | MinuteElectron | Google Summer of Code 2008 summit. |
| 20:32.47 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:33.08 | MinuteElectron | s/2008/2007 |
| 20:33.19 | jgay | oh neat, did brlcad do a project? |
| 20:33.19 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:33.31 | dtidrow_work | that's what I was wondering |
| 20:33.33 | MinuteElectron | jgay: No, BZFlag. |
| 20:33.34 | jgay | *mentor |
| 20:33.36 | jgay | oh ok |
| 20:33.53 | MinuteElectron | brlcad is the project manager for both projects. |
| 20:35.00 | jgay | dtidrow_work, can you tell me anything about the varius licenses. Is there a lot under the BSD license, or is that just some random bits? |
| 20:35.13 | jgay | I know it's mostly under the LGPL, but I just want to survey what's waht |
| 20:35.15 | jgay | *waht |
| 20:35.40 | jgay | MinuteElectron, neat . . . is he a volunteer or is he part of the army research office? |
| 20:36.18 | MinuteElectron | He is part of the army research office for BRL-CAD as far as I know, BZflag is just a hobby IIRC. |
| 20:36.39 | dtidrow_work | jgay: dunno about the BRL-CAD licensing details, that's more of a brlcad question |
| 20:37.58 | jgay | dtidrow_work, cool. Do youknow anything about how active the project is being developed? |
| 20:38.06 | jgay | I will save more detailed development questions for brlcad |
| 20:38.15 | jgay | like, what things need help, etc |
| 20:39.14 | dtidrow_work | it's pretty active - ARL has several developers working on it, IIUC |
| 20:40.03 | jgay | I can't believe I didn't know about this project, sooner |
| 20:40.09 | jgay | I mean, it's older than the GNU Project! |
| 20:40.28 | dtidrow_work | well, it hasn't been GPL-ed for very long |
| 20:40.46 | dtidrow_work | 4-5 years or so |
| 20:41.15 | dtidrow_work | but the guts have been worked on for something like 25-30 years |
| 20:42.50 | dtidrow_work | that's why they still use a VAX 11/780 as the baseline to compare against - gives them historical continuity |
| 20:43.19 | jgay | MinuteElectron, did you also do the delta3d homepage? Both look great. |
| 20:43.33 | jgay | haha, nice, VAX |
| 20:43.34 | dtidrow_work | high-end desktop computers are nearly four orders of magnitude faster than the old 780 |
| 20:44.14 | dtidrow_work | jgay: I need to get back to messing around with delta3d |
| 20:44.28 | dtidrow_work | I mostly work with OSG, which Delta3D is based on |
| 20:44.46 | jgay | is there a relationship between these two projects? |
| 20:44.49 | jgay | what's OSG? |
| 20:45.01 | dtidrow_work | OpenSceneGraph |
| 20:45.36 | dtidrow_work | kind of an open-source Performer (if you know what Performer is :-) |
| 20:48.04 | jgay | nope, don't know what Performer is |
| 20:48.42 | dtidrow_work | do you know what a scenegraph is, at least? |
| 20:49.29 | MinuteElectron | MinuteElectron: Oh, no. brlcad did all the imagery, I did the coding. |
| 20:49.59 | MinuteElectron | There is a new site though http://my.brlcad.org/ - not finished yet. |
| 20:50.21 | jgay | i don't know what a scenegraph is |
| 20:50.34 | jgay | I've never had a programming job that involved a real GUI :-) |
| 20:51.26 | jgay | MinuteElectron: you just sent yourself a message :-) |
| 20:51.33 | louipc | BRL-CAD documentation has a special license 'BDL' |
| 20:51.40 | louipc | BSD Documentation License |
| 20:51.46 | MinuteElectron | jgay: I know, it was aimed at you lol./ |
| 20:51.46 | jgay | interesting |
| 20:51.57 | louipc | jgay: do you have a copy of the code? |
| 20:52.01 | jgay | yeah |
| 20:52.08 | jgay | louipc |
| 20:53.10 | louipc | should be in share/doc/legal |
| 20:53.10 | dtidrow_work | jgay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_graph |
| 20:53.16 | louipc | or sorry doc/legal |
| 20:53.33 | dtidrow_work | http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/scenegraph/ - better pics here |
| 20:53.37 | jgay | louipc, I figured out the three licenses. I was just trying to get a real sense of how much stuff is under the BSD |
| 20:54.10 | louipc | FSF is anti-BSD eh? :P |
| 20:54.32 | jgay | louipc, well, I wouldn't put it that way :-) |
| 20:55.19 | MinuteElectron | I gotta run. |
| 20:56.13 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:56.14 | louipc | the geometric models, images, and other data resources are also |
| 20:56.14 | louipc | provided under the BSD license. Refer to each individual file for |
| 20:56.17 | louipc | specific terms. |
| 20:56.25 | jgay | louipc, ok, cool, thanks! |
| 20:56.27 | louipc | and buildfiles |
| 20:57.45 | louipc | it would be awesome to get more devs sweet |
| 20:58.17 | jgay | louipc, yeah, I hope we can get some. I am checking with my boss that we can go ahead and make this a high priority project and put a call out |
| 20:58.28 | louipc | jgay: http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page |
| 20:58.36 | louipc | check out that app too |
| 20:58.47 | louipc | that's on my list of 'things that should be developed' :D |
| 20:59.10 | louipc | see.. I'm a machinist hehe so these are apps I need/want |
| 20:59.18 | jgay | oh, neat :-) |
| 20:59.24 | jgay | My friend is doing this project: http://interreality.org/ |
| 20:59.28 | jgay | and he's pretty far along with it |
| 20:59.35 | jgay | but that is unrelated |
| 20:59.48 | louipc | ah ok |
| 21:00.16 | jgay | louipc, I don't think gcam will get on our high priority projects |
| 21:00.23 | louipc | cool, seems more for entertainment |
| 21:00.40 | louipc | aww.. |
| 21:00.53 | jgay | louipc, he's bad at marketing, it's pretty serious under the hood |
| 21:01.08 | louipc | there's no good open source CAM software though :/ |
| 21:01.35 | louipc | you know what I don't understand is that companies and schools would save TONS of money on licensing fees if they got together and developed this stuff |
| 21:01.46 | jgay | louipc, can't you "just" throw a plug-in of sorts into brl-cad? |
| 21:02.10 | louipc | the license for a single installation can be $20,000 or more |
| 21:02.33 | jgay | louipc, I know, that's one of the things I want to start talking more about . . . getting out to schools, ngos, companies, orgs, etc, and talk about ways of pooling money and contributing to the development of these great projects |
| 21:02.38 | louipc | plus $5000 for upgrades |
| 21:02.48 | jgay | it will take some time, though, the FSF has a small staff and a lot of things we are working on |
| 21:02.55 | louipc | and the quality of the commercial stuff isn't always that great |
| 21:03.08 | louipc | yeah |
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| 21:13.27 | dtidrow_work | hmmm, wonder what's up with that |
| 21:13.37 | louipc | Excess Flood |
| 21:26.51 | dtidrow_work | but why is it happening? spam attack? |
| 21:27.29 | archivist | copy pasting too large an amount |
| 21:27.32 | Maloeran | Someone got broken scripts in his IRC client, probably |
| 21:30.22 | dtidrow_work | was thinking it was some sort of bot spam attack |
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| 21:43.51 | ``Erik | nah, probably in too many channels |
| 21:44.15 | ``Erik | happens to me on efnet at times, like a dozen channel and if I get disconnected, the autojoin on reconnect cycles me like that |
| 21:44.23 | louipc | oh yeah hah ouch |
| 21:44.26 | ``Erik | and then I get banned for many months cuz mal doesn't listen when I msg him |
| 21:44.27 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:48.49 | ``Erik | heh, fsf 'urgent' project? O.o nutty |
| 21:49.15 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, there was trep in #opengl asking for Scheme stuff |
| 21:49.39 | Maloeran | A very old regular appearing from nowhere |
| 21:50.10 | ``Erik | gcam is pretty nifty stuff, and it can't just be a plugin for a cad system, you have to actually figure out how to move the bit around... gcam does it with a fem type simulator |
| 21:55.15 | ``Erik | jgay: not much code is under BSD (mostly stuff in the 'contrib' dir iirc).... and http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
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| 22:01.12 | louipc | fem = ? |
| 22:01.34 | archivist | finite element modeling |
| 22:01.50 | louipc | ``Erik: you could build an app around BRL-CAD libs though eh? |
| 22:02.53 | ``Erik | erm, of course... |
| 22:37.08 | ``Erik | oi, dude, they set ya up in a decent hotel? (and read the backscroll) |
| 22:38.41 | brlcad | not too shabby actually, definitely a "high" three star |
| 22:38.57 | brlcad | there's even like three free intarwebs here |
| 22:40.02 | brlcad | there's enough room for at least like 3 or 4 girls with me in the bed |
| 22:40.11 | brlcad | too bad none are attending this thing :) |
| 22:40.35 | brlcad | jgay: howdy! |
| 22:40.42 | louipc | at least they must be attending the bar... or some tables or something? |
| 22:42.26 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: not even 4-5 years, we're about to close out year 3 |
| 22:45.20 | brlcad | jgay: there's more details in the COPYING file, see http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/COPYING |
| 22:46.44 | brlcad | but the gist is that the entire package is under the LGPL with the exception of the build infrastructure, some scripts, data files, and some of the documentation |
| 22:48.01 | brlcad | basically any of the stuff that is completely "peripheral" and could disappear on a moment's notice, or that we wouldn't even care if someone tried to sell it because it's prevalently available in other places, is under BSD |
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| 22:49.09 | brlcad | the actual sources to BRL-CAD are almost entirely under LGPL, save a few grandfathered files that arein the public domain |
| 22:50.30 | ``Erik | lgpl for libs, gpl for bins, I thought |
| 22:51.48 | louipc | I didn't think anything is in gpl anymore |
| 22:51.49 | brlcad | all lgpl now |
| 22:51.56 | louipc | :D |
| 22:52.06 | louipc | oh let me put my glasses on |
| 22:52.09 | louipc | 8D |
| 22:54.00 | brlcad | the problem was actually with ARL .. we couldn't refactor front-end gpl code into the libraries without causing problems ... and gpl libs are an outright non-starter for brl-cad's primary user and supporter (i.e. arl) |
| 22:55.09 | ``Erik | hrm, I presume this was when I was a 'user' sorta? |
| 22:55.27 | louipc | would GPL count if it isn't distributed outside ARL? |
| 22:55.39 | brlcad | 7.10.0 |
| 22:56.27 | ``Erik | it's always been distributed out of ARL |
| 22:57.03 | brlcad | louipc: that's where (imho) it's rather questionable, since arl certainly "redistributes" to an extent (or at least wants that right) |
| 22:57.04 | louipc | no I mean the 'secret' stuff |
| 22:57.14 | louipc | ah |
| 22:58.24 | ``Erik | the non-public stuff is distributed outside of ARL, but with pretty strict constraints on who can see it, ugly license agreements... |
| 22:58.35 | louipc | of course |
| 22:58.37 | brlcad | so to have folks at arl contributing, and then arl distributing one of the brl-cad libraries with a binary version of one of the analysis codes (like muves or orca) .. they cannot do that if the libs were gpl |
| 22:58.54 | louipc | yea |
| 22:59.07 | brlcad | so yeah, libs as gpl is an absolute .. non-starter |
| 22:59.30 | brlcad | so in our best interest to be able to refactor back and forth from libs to front-end code and back, it really simplifies to make it all lgpl |
| 22:59.42 | louipc | why not all just BSD? |
| 22:59.49 | brlcad | aside from just making it freaking easier to talk about :) |
| 23:00.07 | louipc | hehe |
| 23:00.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:00.34 | brlcad | that's another perfectly viable option, but it doesn't buy us anything |
| 23:00.37 | ``Erik | gpl served the purposes |
| 23:00.56 | louipc | yeah no use changing it anymore |
| 23:01.55 | brlcad | that is one of the few areas where lgpl kinda serves a purpose.. i mean closed-source CAD is about a 5-10 billion dollar industry iirc, and the only difference of going to bsd would be that folks could use our code in closed codes without needing to share changes to our code (i.e. extensions) |
| 23:02.45 | ``Erik | *nod* and we want the full experience available to everyone |
| 23:02.51 | ``Erik | cuz we ROCK! |
| 23:03.09 | louipc | roxorz |
| 23:03.18 | brlcad | lgpl's a good balance of having everyone work on the same code without worries of what codes their hooking into, and with the assurance that nobody (in this expensive industry) is going to try to clam up and gain leverage -- encourages collaboration |
| 23:04.23 | ``Erik | industry amount aside, the big packages are like $20k-40k a seat |
| 23:04.34 | louipc | yep |
| 23:04.36 | louipc | or more |
| 23:05.06 | louipc | if you ask me schools/companies are stupid to not take initiative to develop open-source alternatives |
| 23:05.36 | ``Erik | if it weren't virtually impenetrable, I'd try to write up a cad system :D I wouldn't mind a garage full of ferraris |
| 23:05.49 | louipc | yeah! |
| 23:06.11 | louipc | well even GPL allows you to sell the software... |
| 23:06.27 | brlcad | yeah, it really is a massive market to make any sort of dent in |
| 23:06.49 | archivist | sexy gui will make the difference |
| 23:06.50 | brlcad | we could have 10x the activity, and we'd still be about a decade behind the commercial systems |
| 23:06.58 | louipc | archivist: yea definitely |
| 23:07.05 | brlcad | sexy gui will help get that 10x, if now 50x |
| 23:07.08 | brlcad | s/now/not/ |
| 23:07.28 | louipc | 90% more users |
| 23:07.45 | brlcad | 500% ;) |
| 23:07.46 | louipc | or uh more.. |
| 23:08.03 | louipc | yea |
| 23:08.30 | ``Erik | start writing the replacement for mged, archivist :D I can't wait to see your results |
| 23:08.40 | archivist | heh |
| 23:09.59 | brlcad | er, 5000% |
| 23:10.23 | brlcad | divide by 23, carry the one, add 82 .. |
| 23:10.27 | archivist | or more |
| 23:10.35 | brlcad | 5000% == 50x ;) |
| 23:11.17 | louipc | I will pick up dev one day.... |
| 23:11.37 | louipc | I'll probably work on drafting aspects :D |
| 23:12.37 | archivist | a "few" years ago |
| 23:12.41 | louipc | archivist: haha sweet that's the first programming I ever did |
| 23:13.05 | louipc | borland turbo pascal |
| 23:13.15 | archivist | I used that before C |
| 23:14.11 | ``Erik | <-- did basic and asm before C, thus is code-tarded |
| 23:14.16 | ``Erik | well |
| 23:14.26 | ``Erik | basic and mnemonics using a monitor on the c64 |
| 23:15.06 | archivist | SC/MP then PET for me |
| 23:15.10 | louipc | I found a printed copy of a WATFIV (fortran) program in my garage |
| 23:15.21 | louipc | from 77 :D |
| 23:16.00 | archivist | send a copy to bitsavers.org |
| 23:16.13 | louipc | will do once I type it up |
| 23:16.51 | louipc | I need to find something to compile it too |
| 23:17.20 | archivist | my debian box has fortran |
| 23:17.43 | archivist | g77 iirc |
| 23:17.53 | louipc | gcc-fortran is kickin still hey? |
| 23:18.20 | archivist | I was playing with it on my alpha so yes |
| 23:19.12 | louipc | yeah |
| 23:19.30 | ``Erik | can g77 do IV? O.o heh |
| 23:19.36 | louipc | university of waterloo's variation of it anyways |
| 23:19.43 | louipc | I haven't tried compiling it yet |
| 23:19.58 | archivist | fortran-- for its column specific sillyness |
| 23:20.25 | ``Erik | lots of languages from the era have that kinda silliness, archivist... take a look at, say, RPG |
| 23:20.28 | louipc | that has to do with punch cards though |
| 23:20.37 | louipc | in that case it made sense, not so much nowadays |
| 23:20.39 | ``Erik | don't look very close, you'll have to gouge your eyes out if you do |
| 23:22.36 | archivist | I may have RPG on punched cards in the loft at home from an IBM 1130 |
| 23:27.24 | ``Erik | I d'no, C was in the land of minis with interactive terminals for a long time |
| 23:27.34 | ``Erik | it was the unix programming language... :/ |
| 23:28.10 | louipc | yeah |
| 23:28.14 | jgay | brlcad, when you get a chance, would you mind emailing me at jgay@fsf.org |
| 23:28.31 | jgay | sorry I cut out earlier, I had to run out. |
| 23:28.46 | louipc | what would he email you about? |
| 23:28.48 | jgay | I'm signing off for the night right now, though. Look forward to chatting with you |
| 23:29.09 | ``Erik | heh, mebbe YOU should email HIM with your list of questions :D *duck* |
| 23:29.37 | brlcad | jgay: sure |
| 23:29.43 | louipc | otherwise he'd say "umm.. you asked me to email you. Hi. wasup?" |
| 23:29.46 | jgay | thanks |
| 23:30.07 | brlcad | anything in particular I should write? :) |
| 23:30.11 | jgay | louipc, exactly |
| 23:30.15 | louipc | lol |
| 23:30.21 | jgay | haha, i was just hoping to get your email address and starta discussion |
| 23:30.38 | louipc | jgay: join the brlcad-dev ML |
| 23:30.40 | louipc | ? |
| 23:30.40 | jgay | i want to put out a call to developers and make brl-cad a high priority project according to the FSF |
| 23:30.52 | louipc | jgay: yeah make your announcement there too |
| 23:30.55 | jgay | so i wanted to discuss with you some things about what kinds of developers, etc |
| 23:31.22 | jgay | louipc, yeah, I can do that. I'll discuss it on brlcad-dev ML if that makes sense. Are you brlcad's administrative assistant? |
| 23:31.25 | jgay | I'm confused :-P |
| 23:31.34 | louipc | jgay: I'm an interloper |
| 23:31.46 | jgay | OK, I'm off for the night. Hehe. Thanks guys! Sorry I ran out and then again! |
| 23:31.57 | louipc | cheers |
| 23:32.16 | louipc | administrative assistant = secretary? |
| 23:32.40 | archivist | usually yes |
| 23:33.22 | brlcad | assists in administration ;) |
| 23:35.01 | ``Erik | opposed to an administrator O.o |
| 23:35.05 | archivist | I hate these modern/higher terms being applied to pre-existing jobs |
| 23:35.25 | ``Erik | I guess we must've annoyed jgay to have him wanting to talk in email instead of channel :D |
| 23:35.54 | ``Erik | all in the name of political correctness O.o |
| 23:35.59 | louipc | those damned FSF commies |
| 23:36.25 | ``Erik | heh, I vagually recall something about drive channels being renamed in california? from master/slave to primary/secondary? O.o |
| 23:37.02 | ``Erik | http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/11/26/135701.php |
| 23:37.33 | *** join/#brlcad archivist_ (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |