IRC log for #brlcad on 20071011

00:59.08 brlcad starseeker: yeah, hogar dulce hogar
00:59.45 brlcad summer of code summit was awesome, hopefully I can get this project to participate next year
00:59.52 brlcad or we can start one of our own
02:01.20 ``Erik even worse than spring break for geeks :D
02:04.14 ``Erik southpark, w00t
02:11.55 brlcad winter break is no longer practically possible regardless if I had to guess; we're running out of time
02:12.03 brlcad maybe still for january ( one month program )
02:12.04 brlcad but that's pushing it
02:50.46 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
03:58.02 ``Erik winter break is a weak, and parents expects kids to swing by home... computer geeks are probably more likely to be at the whim of parents than non-geeks
03:58.28 ``Erik it's not 2 weeks of sitting around bored, there're flights, drives, family, etc ...
04:17.51 louipc damn I remember getting a month off
07:09.44 brlcad I got a month off every year, even more if you counted the last days in december (though I wouldn't) -- same for friends in a half dozen other schools
07:10.06 brlcad technically it was winter session, sometimes even could take a short course and get some credits out of the way
07:11.46 brlcad either way, it's not meant to be perfect, it would have been simply to identify with a market that didn't overlap with google's program and *could* work, which it pretty much could regardless of whether you really like it ..
07:12.22 brlcad summer isn't ideal either for tons of reasons
07:12.37 brlcad i'd actually think we should do both, run a month long and run a 3 month program
07:12.48 brlcad cater to different groups
07:12.54 brlcad different needs
07:15.08 *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:00.50 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, don't forget to credit adam ross too .. the original author did have a bit of influence on the implementation. also mention erik upgrading bundled libpng to 1.2.21
08:03.26 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c:
08:03.26 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: rip out the dead code. it's in CVS is someone ever really does need it to be
08:03.26 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: reinstated, but the restart code would need modifications for preserving proper
08:03.26 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: gamma correction regardless. so in leu of compile-time disabling it, just take
08:03.26 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: the code out and simply for now.
10:30.42 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
11:55.43 ``Erik damn, a month? I got jipped, my bday is in mid december and I remember finals week was also starting up during it (like my first final after dropping back into school was the day after my 21st... sucked), and the first week of jan was when classes started up :/
12:52.36 blandwidth brlcad: regarding the last commit - good
12:52.55 blandwidth Dead Code Elimination, lol :)
13:08.30 ``Erik heh, I was gonna get around to it... y'know... eventually
13:09.41 ``Erik #if 0 did the job, too *shrug8 but yeah, it's in cvs so it's not lost
13:09.46 ``Erik bahhhhh *vgr vgr2.brl.mil .94 .83 .75 .74 .70 .79
13:46.21 ``Erik <grantk> What do you call a bunch of nerds arguing on the internet
13:46.21 ``Erik <PetrDoubt> "the internet"
13:49.04 brlcad eek, that was with the 5 Hz tweak?
13:49.11 ``Erik 345 -> 330
13:49.14 brlcad ahh
13:49.44 ``Erik a 4.5% change causing a 33% change in result :(
13:50.02 blandwidth Nerdic Walking
13:50.27 ``Erik I think if this'll be useful, I'll have to do some heavy sampling
13:59.07 ``Erik "It was like teabagging a bear cub in front of its mother. The sheer audacity is the only thing that saved him." hehehehehe
14:21.13 *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=david@80.177.175.151)
14:27.34 *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
14:55.09 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-018-050.pools.arcor-ip.net)
15:50.54 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548750DE.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:16.41 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-138-206.perm.iinet.net.au)
16:49.29 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
16:52.20 thing0 ``Erik:
16:52.24 thing0 sorry
16:52.30 thing0 trying autocomplete names in pidgin
16:59.44 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com)
17:00.31 *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-138-206.perm.iinet.net.au)
18:17.21 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com)
18:28.28 *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-84-152.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:42.02 Z80-Boy brlcad: here?
19:12.25 *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
19:16.37 *** join/#brlcad angasule (n=angasule@190.49.222.207)
19:18.37 angasule hello
19:46.28 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
20:21.49 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/debian/.cvsignore: ignore generated changelog
20:23.14 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: flush stdout/stderr just for good measure.
20:24.37 Z80-Boy brlcad: !
20:28.33 *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
20:37.21 starseeker yukonbob: Around?
20:37.40 yukonbob hey starseeker
20:39.46 starseeker How goes it?
20:40.01 starseeker Sorry about not being around - life has gotten... exciting of late
20:41.24 yukonbob Hrmm...
20:41.48 yukonbob not too bad here -- winter's set in by the look of it -- nothing too exciting going on...
20:50.25 starseeker Heh - between work and my car it's been rather wild.
20:52.54 yukonbob what's your work that it's "wild"?
20:54.26 brlcad angasule: howdy
20:54.30 brlcad Z80-Boy: yes
20:55.42 yukonbob hey brlcad
20:57.50 starseeker yukonbob: They like assigning projects that are outside my training, and don't let me finish ones that ARE inside my training
20:57.50 starseeker brlcad: Glad to hear the summer of code meeting went well :-)
20:57.50 yukonbob starseeker: ...is it interesting, or frustrating?
20:57.52 starseeker yukonbob: With enough time and resources, it would be interesting. As it is...
20:58.28 ``Erik heh, so you have a real job... ok? :LD
20:58.29 ``Erik :D
20:58.52 brlcad howdy yukonbob
20:59.06 brlcad starseeker: it went great!
20:59.10 starseeker ``Erik: Heh -pretty much
20:59.17 starseeker brlcad: Excellent :-)
20:59.18 brlcad already looking forward to doing it again next year
20:59.30 starseeker What are your "A list" projects?
20:59.42 brlcad for all of the hard work it took mentoring all of the students, the summit was one of the highlight return on investments
20:59.51 brlcad BRL-CAD?
20:59.53 brlcad BZFlag? :)
20:59.57 starseeker Ah :-)
21:00.11 starseeker I was thinking BRL-CAD, but bzflag is important too ;-)
21:00.26 ``Erik probably more important
21:00.33 brlcad there were lots of really good projects at the summit, just about every major OSS project was represented in some fashion
21:00.59 starseeker "Deadline THIS Bob!"
21:01.21 starseeker brlcad: Wow. What a neat opportunity to talk to the key players :-)
21:02.03 brlcad text?
21:02.14 starseeker You mean labels on models?
21:02.28 ``Erik telnet bzflag.bz 32010
21:02.31 brlcad like annotations or wireframe text labels in the 3d scene?
21:02.31 ``Erik > turn left
21:02.32 ``Erik > fire
21:02.56 yukonbob for labels in renderings, etc. Like povray -- so I could 'in mytitle text font size style "this is my text"', or similar...
21:02.57 brlcad aww, connection refused :)
21:03.09 ``Erik MSG from brlcad: get off my fucking server, twit!
21:03.12 ``Erik *disconnected*
21:03.14 ``Erik $
21:03.28 brlcad yukonbob: there already is a title -- the "title" command :)
21:03.39 brlcad just doesn't display in the renderings (currently)
21:03.57 brlcad talked about adding a "2D" overlay/annotation primitive
21:04.04 brlcad that's on the ideas list to implement
21:04.09 yukonbob brlcad: hrmm... /me will look into that -- I mentioned this before, but got no mention of 'title' (and didn't stumble/recognize it in browsing manuals)
21:04.22 brlcad wouldn't even really be that hard -- the only trick is figuring out how it would interact with the ray-tracer if at all
21:04.36 brlcad title is just that, a title that is set on geometry
21:05.00 brlcad it's displayed in various places (like in the log during ray-tracing or as the window title in the geometry browser)
21:05.05 yukonbob ..oh -- _that_ title -- ya -- I know that -- what about arbitrary text pasted as a renderable object, though...
21:05.17 brlcad yeah, that'd be the new feature to add
21:05.35 brlcad would be an excellent summer of code project idea :)
21:05.44 louipc hmm how would that work?
21:06.02 brlcad shouldn't take more than a month or so if they were familiar with coding
21:06.14 yukonbob louipc: /me imagines it rendering TT fonts... a la povray
21:06.30 brlcad yeah, that's slightly more tricky, but not impossible
21:07.02 starseeker Would that be converting ttf structure to brlcad geometry?
21:07.02 louipc would it make a texture on an invisible plane?
21:07.21 brlcad I got true type font rendering in bzflag now via ftgl and freetype2, you could do something similar where you composite a rendered image with the font
21:07.52 brlcad depends, whether you want it to be annotative or actually part of the scene, as a means to help model 3D text in the scene
21:08.15 brlcad I wasn't thinking of making it 3D geometry just yet, annotations are a little more important
21:08.16 louipc the text should be modifyable
21:08.54 poolio alloo
21:09.07 louipc salut
21:09.10 poolio ca va?
21:09.13 yukonbob ya -- annotations would be nice -- it's already done w/ the wireframes (axes, for example)... which would be nice to get semantics for display w/ rt setup...
21:09.31 starseeker Sounds like in image editors - one layer for annotations which is otherwise transparent layered over the "image"
21:09.35 brlcad another excellent form of implicit modelling -- the text correllates with some 3D shape implicitly depending on a specified font, position, and orientation
21:09.51 yukonbob re: modifiable -- could be setup as attributes to objects... totally modifiable in that case...
21:10.35 yukonbob actually, in that case, perhaps one could build a completely seperate tool that could query the DB, develop the text part, and make a composite image?
21:11.17 brlcad yeah
21:11.19 louipc poolio: ca va
21:11.24 brlcad i think there's several viable ways
21:11.26 brlcad with their tradeoffs
21:12.06 yukonbob rt -o foo.pix model.g object; rtanno -i foo.pix -o newfoo.pix model.g object;
21:13.35 brlcad yeah, had almost the exact same idea, cept it's labelled as rtannotate at the moment ;)
21:13.47 yukonbob ;0
21:13.50 yukonbob ;), rather
21:14.28 starseeker The beauty of tab completion on the command line :-) - no more is obscurity needed
21:15.01 yukonbob starseeker: not everybody uses bash :(
21:15.31 louipc yukonbob: what do you use?
21:15.36 yukonbob sh
21:15.39 louipc whoa
21:15.40 yukonbob <PROTECTED>
21:15.45 louipc hah!
21:15.52 starseeker yukonbob: Well, if they seek out pain...
21:15.57 louipc I don't even have sh
21:16.13 yukonbob louipc: are you running a l00nucks?
21:17.21 starseeker Guaranteed to defeat hackers as their brains explode trying to figure it out...
21:17.22 louipc yukonbob: sh is a symlink to bash. No I'm running linux
21:17.39 ``Erik heh, using 'creat' instead of 'create' is considered a mistake by the dude who wrote it (I forgot if that was thompson, ritchie, or who...)
21:19.28 yukonbob ``Erik: yeh -- I remember reading an interview w/ Ritchie I believe, who considered not adding the 'e' the mistake he made with Unix...
21:21.49 yukonbob sh is required by posix, whether it's traditional sh, or the gnu bastardized version...
21:21.49 ``Erik bt I hv n prblm wth nt sng vwls n th nx trdtn
21:21.49 ``Erik O:-)
21:21.49 ``Erik as long as the sh supports the minimal set of things a sh needs to do, it's generally considered "ok"
21:21.49 ``Erik as defined by posix.1
21:21.49 yukonbob gah -- I'd rthaer raed smoehtnig wtih all the ltetrs mxied up...
21:22.49 ``Erik heh, when ti doesn't segfault :D
21:23.00 brlcad it' doesn't any more does it?
21:23.14 brlcad i'd not had any problems since the fix
21:23.15 ``Erik no, john fixed that
21:23.25 yukonbob speaking of segfaults -- brlcad did you see that I revisited my earlier dsp issue (out of mem) and found it to be the same?
21:23.32 ``Erik it'd be nice if it understood something about the input it's trying to complete
21:23.37 ``Erik so opendb would complete on the filesystem
21:23.40 ``Erik etc
21:24.05 ``Erik and I have a suspicion that performance will suffer tab completing on large geometries, I think it's O(n) on names right now
21:24.14 brlcad yukonbob: in all honesty, it's not gotten an honest slice of my attention in the debugger just yet other than to verify that confirming that it did look like a bug
21:24.16 ``Erik using lsearch in tcl I think
21:24.41 brlcad easy enough to test..
21:24.54 Z80-Boy brlcad: tab-completion? Woohoo!
21:25.26 ``Erik 8 wheels and a keg party in the back?
21:25.45 louipc hm?
21:25.54 ``Erik the 'real model' :)
21:27.24 ``Erik I did a tab completion thing in some code once upon a time, ended up using a trie because I had an obscenely slow machine :)
21:27.45 Z80-Boy one could also use burrows-wheeler transform for tab completion
21:27.47 ``Erik <-- points out that brlcad's desktop is *WAY* faster than dwaynes desktop *cough*
21:27.56 Z80-Boy it would actually learn the things the user uses the most
21:28.02 brlcad hm, seems to work fine with several hundred matches
21:28.07 brlcad not even a blip on the cpu
21:28.16 ``Erik how many million parts?
21:28.58 brlcad dunno, just tried a few interactive
21:29.23 Z80-Boy brlcad: if I have an unpushed matrix in a combination whose one part is an arbn then which functions are used?
21:29.34 ``Erik *shrug* until someone complains, it's not an issue :)
21:29.40 Z80-Boy it it like the ray is transformed through the matrix and then shot at the arbn?
21:29.43 ``Erik just wanted to note that it might be one eventually
21:29.50 Z80-Boy Or the arbn is transformed once and then rays shot at it?
21:31.48 Z80-Boy Is this right?
21:31.49 Z80-Boy <PROTECTED>
21:31.50 brlcad hm, okay .. so it's choked on 16 copies of the entire t62 with every primitive renamed with an 'a' suffix (took about 15 seconds)
21:32.05 Z80-Boy Isn't there something missing around the aip->eqn[i][3];?
21:32.24 brlcad but at that point, even 'tops' takes about 15 seconds
21:32.36 Z80-Boy why is it called norm_dist when aip->eqn[i][3]; is unnormalized?
21:32.40 Z80-Boy Or is it normalized before?
21:33.46 ``Erik take a shower?
21:35.06 Z80-Boy I guess the code is wrong.
21:35.54 Z80-Boy does VDOT do just a plain dot product?
21:36.51 brlcad iirc, all of the norm() routines assume a normalized vector
21:37.00 brlcad so that it doesn't have to check/compute it
21:37.12 Z80-Boy this is norm_ variable, not a norm_routine
21:37.14 brlcad that was a performance tweak a long time ago that made a big difference
21:37.26 *** part/#brlcad angasule (n=angasule@190.49.222.207)
21:37.43 brlcad where is that line you pasted?
21:37.50 brlcad in what routine?
21:37.57 Z80-Boy rt_arbn_shot
21:38.15 Z80-Boy I guess the last term has to be either divided or multiplied by the length of the plane vector
21:38.24 Z80-Boy cause it's possible to enter the plane vectors unnormalized
21:38.36 Z80-Boy -or- renormalize the plane vectors after they have been entered
21:38.42 brlcad yeah
21:38.47 Z80-Boy so that's the bug?
21:38.49 brlcad are you running into a different problem?
21:38.58 brlcad john had fixed the other one iirc
21:39.03 Z80-Boy I am running into a problem that my Ronja holder looks different than it should
21:39.06 brlcad that was related to normalized vectors
21:39.10 Z80-Boy because I used an unnormalized plane in arbn
21:39.24 Z80-Boy which one it was?
21:39.30 brlcad i thought it was that one
21:39.32 brlcad are you up to date?
21:39.36 Z80-Boy this one is the "mirroring arbn produces a different shape" bug
21:39.43 Z80-Boy I checked the bugtracker it's still marked open
21:39.49 Z80-Boy Checked it today
21:39.58 brlcad hmm
21:40.04 Z80-Boy and it still compiles Ronja wrong
21:40.07 brlcad then maybe confusing it with a differnt one you posted
21:40.11 Z80-Boy just did update - it's till in the CVS
21:41.04 brlcad k
21:41.26 Z80-Boy the VDOT between a shot ray and plane normal produces what exactly?
21:41.31 Z80-Boy A projection!
21:44.44 Z80-Boy the plane basically stays the same if you multiply all 4 numbers by some constant, right?
21:44.58 Z80-Boy ax+by+cz+d=0
21:45.34 Z80-Boy If you do it the VDOT grows by the same constant as the aip->eqn[i][3]
21:45.39 Z80-Boy so it shouldn't be a problem
21:45.45 Z80-Boy just the norm_dist gets denormalized
21:45.53 Z80-Boy so now it has to be divided by the vector length
21:46.16 Z80-Boy of the plane normal vector
21:48.46 Z80-Boy and then there is a remote chance my holder will look right ;-)
21:54.18 brlcad swank
22:01.09 Z80-Boy hmm it didn't help, it's the same :(

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