IRC log for #brlcad on 20071114

00:02.18 ``Erik the tcl error? or the dorking with os stuff error? :D
00:02.30 ``Erik I freakin' hate i386 irq/isr/gdt crap
00:02.37 ``Erik and amd64 has exactly the same shit
00:06.44 brlcad tcl
01:03.54 starseeker brlcad: still on?
01:04.24 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
01:05.19 starseeker yukonbob: Heh - our timing isn't so hot, or he's darn good a dodging ;-)
01:07.32 brlcad yes
01:07.56 brlcad too much code, too little time
01:09.46 yukonbob :)
01:10.35 yukonbob brlcad: did ``Erik get you that file/info
01:11.20 brlcad the .g file, yes
01:14.43 brlcad is it full_hub?
01:15.46 yukonbob hubcomb
01:16.33 ``Erik debugger nirt run on the 'bad' rays?
01:17.02 yukonbob seems to be size-dependant (if I'm seeing what I think you're seeing)... so either use a big framebuffer, or use 2048 or so for manual rt...
01:18.29 brlcad it is
01:18.35 brlcad related to tolerance and root solving
01:18.59 yukonbob floating point issue? (/me is totally guessing)
01:19.15 brlcad could be as simple as a bad normal, but can't say for certain without actual testing
01:19.23 ``Erik heh
01:19.36 ``Erik what all pushes the root solver? the torus is a biggie
01:20.23 ``Erik but the issues with those mostly seem when the normal is near orthogenal to the primary
01:20.25 yukonbob there are ~38 (maybe 78) tori in that model iirc
01:21.08 brlcad I don't doubt that the odd normals are tolerance related
01:21.43 brlcad the odd one are the specs on the tgc
01:21.57 brlcad those are the ones that are worth investigating
01:22.37 yukonbob tgc == [rcc + constraints]?
01:22.46 ``Erik truncated cone
01:22.58 ``Erik an rcc a form of tgc
01:23.03 yukonbob trunc cone == trc.
01:23.03 ``Erik iirc
01:23.07 ``Erik er
01:23.20 ``Erik <-- doesn't model, so loses those quick... :D
01:23.29 ``Erik also; vodka good :D so don't give me shit
01:23.39 brlcad truncated generalized cone
01:23.48 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:23.53 ``Erik trc is truncated right cone?
01:23.53 yukonbob that hub body == diff of rcc's -- anyway, is all obvious w/ the .g, and /me trusts you'll find something interesting...
01:23.53 brlcad s/generalized/general/
01:23.59 brlcad yeah
01:24.00 ``Erik twingy, isst!
01:24.06 brlcad rcc is a right circular cylinder
01:24.09 Twingy pisst!
01:24.11 ``Erik ok, so trc is a form of tgc
01:24.20 brlcad trc and rcc both
01:24.22 Twingy I sent a file and instructions to ed today
01:24.26 ``Erik ok
01:24.32 brlcad all of the conics are a tgc
01:24.45 ``Erik I was in his office this morning, he called you then jay-lo to get isst and rvis sorted
01:25.10 brlcad just like all of the arbs are arb8's
01:25.16 Twingy I've been squeezing out circuit boards like a weathered north vietnamese child labor shop
01:26.20 yukonbob re: trc and rcc == tgc; interesting...
01:26.45 yukonbob tec + rec, too?
01:27.29 brlcad they go through different numerics, and are stored with the knowledge that they are that specific type of tgc
01:27.43 ``Erik yeah, uh
01:27.46 brlcad so saying they're the same really just means that their storage format is that of a tgc
01:27.59 yukonbob thx ``Erik
01:28.04 ``Erik I have to go in the next day or to, heh... I'm trying an experiement
01:28.21 ``Erik instead of buying 6 weeks worth of food and living out of the freezer, I'm trying to buy minimally and go once a week
01:28.35 brlcad rcc's are considerably faster to evaluate than an arbitrary tgc, for example (almost an order), given the types of roots possible
01:28.38 ``Erik I'm hoping it'll get me into eating more fresh vegetables and get away from the frozen foods
01:29.18 Twingy I often go to the grocery store twice a week
01:29.48 ``Erik I was doing it once every 6 weeks...
01:29.52 yukonbob !
01:29.59 starseeker my freezer isn't that big
01:30.29 yukonbob reminds me of Microserfs, where people lock themselves in their offices and only eat flat food; food that can be slid under the door...
01:30.38 ``Erik heh
01:31.23 ``Erik heh, ziplock fotw
01:31.27 ``Erik ftw
01:31.35 starseeker Actually, ``Erik you might know this... since brlcad's busy - Has there ever been an effort to have the itcl/itk upstream devs merge in the brlcad patches to those libraries?
01:31.43 ``Erik um
01:31.50 ``Erik brlcad patches?
01:32.01 starseeker BRL-CAD patches itcl/itk
01:32.05 ``Erik well
01:32.17 ``Erik bob patched itcl to cope with being included in a foreign build system
01:32.18 ``Erik but, uh
01:32.22 ``Erik otherwise, tehy're very stock
01:32.53 ``Erik the only modification right now in HEAD is, um, including <brlcad_config.h> I think
01:33.15 ``Erik otherwise, I broke stuff really good last week when I imported new tcl, tk, itcl, and itk
01:33.25 starseeker My system installs don't expose Itcl_Init for some reason
01:33.47 ``Erik erm, odd
01:34.25 ``Erik http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
01:34.33 ``Erik but I don't use system itcl
01:34.35 ``Erik not yet
01:35.25 starseeker There we go http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m66c7d311
01:36.28 starseeker Personally I don't have a problem with BRL-CAD building it's own libs, but it seems to send the Gentoo devs into a tailspin - every time I interact with them they "suggest" that using the system libs is the way to go...
01:42.59 ``Erik when they support (actively) tcl 8.5b1, tk 8.5b1, itcl3.4 and itk 3.4, it's all good.
01:43.08 ``Erik :D
01:43.12 starseeker Heh
01:46.53 ``Erik ... ayup...
01:47.02 ``Erik and I'm PRETTY sure they they don't offer itcl 3.4
01:47.04 ``Erik masked or not.
01:47.20 ``Erik given that I imported stuff from the cvs head...
01:47.24 ``Erik :D
01:47.28 starseeker hehe
01:48.33 starseeker They also suggested reducing the user-visible flags - is there any condition under which a "normal" user would NOT want to optimize the build?
01:48.52 ``Erik um
01:48.53 ``Erik no
01:48.57 starseeker OK :-)
01:49.15 starseeker aaaand a nother one bites the dust...
01:49.16 ``Erik supposedly, it causes crashes on sparc and ppc on fbsd
01:49.31 ``Erik or, it did at one point
01:49.53 ``Erik I lack sparc and ppc fbsd boxen, so I undid the de-optimize fu in the port... and will wait for bug reports
01:50.18 starseeker That should do it :-)
01:51.01 ``Erik now I currenlty don't have adrt/rise enabled and that has been a request from users
01:51.05 ``Erik mostly pedre
01:51.24 ``Erik but it adds python and sdl as deps
01:51.58 ``Erik <-- cranks his ui size way down
01:52.16 ``Erik woops
01:52.19 Twingy python and sdl is the ancient one
01:52.23 ``Erik heh
01:52.24 ``Erik yeah
01:52.25 ``Erik uh
01:52.30 ``Erik get me mor erecent code.
01:52.30 ``Erik boy.
01:52.39 Twingy I told you I just send ed the code
01:53.07 ``Erik are the docs up to date, so'z dumb old coder like me can pick it up?
01:54.09 ``Erik <-- half expecting a letter from legal in the next few days, skipped lunch to leave early (after 9hrclock time), and the evil one saw me drive off.
01:54.20 ``Erik so I'm a'drinkin' and not a'carin'
01:56.07 Twingy legal? are you in trouble? :)
01:56.54 ``Erik prasad got a legal notice before any supervisor interjection
01:57.24 ``Erik actually, no, he got it immediately after, but obviously the legal avenue was pursued before any confrontation at the local mgmt level
01:57.43 ``Erik and I don't think it learnes.
01:58.42 ``Erik damn my unique automobile
02:23.38 brlcad yukonbob: that'd work for me.. pizza :)
02:24.03 brlcad starseeker: yeah, we're not modding incr (at least any more)
02:24.19 starseeker :-)
02:24.23 brlcad other than to allow it to work uninstalled, which is specific to our source layout
02:24.40 starseeker Would upstream incorporate that change?
02:26.26 brlcad no no, it refers specifically to where we know it can find sources
02:26.49 brlcad merely for the sake of being able to run binaries without actually installing
02:27.07 brlcad and still have them find all of the resources they expect
02:27.51 brlcad the same effect is achieved normally by setting the plethora of env vars (ITCL_LIBRARY, etc)
02:28.44 starseeker Ah. So using a system install is possible if the env vars are used?
02:28.48 brlcad ideally --disable-all will work if/when the proper deps are declared and if/when all of the configure tests are solid
02:29.00 brlcad huh?
02:29.09 brlcad using a system install is supposed to be possible regardless
02:29.16 starseeker er, sorry. :-)
02:29.19 brlcad i'm referring to running binaries without ever installing anything
02:29.29 *** join/#brlcad fiberchunks (n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks)
02:29.43 brlcad if they were purely all system installed libs, then there's no problem
02:30.03 brlcad because at run-time, everything is where it expects it already (they're already installed)
02:30.14 starseeker Ah, of course
02:30.20 brlcad i'm talking about having one of the tcl component being used, but NOT yet installed
02:30.42 brlcad like say you use a system tcl, but were letting incrtcl compile from our sources
02:31.12 brlcad then a binary that uses itcl, tries a package require Itcl, etc will fail
02:31.17 brlcad until you install it
02:31.42 starseeker Oh, got it
02:31.53 brlcad since we know where to find those resources even before it's installed, we just make the mod that makes it look in our source tree before giving up
02:31.59 fiberchunks evening
02:32.02 brlcad howdy fiberchunks
02:32.13 brlcad two days in a row, what is the world coming to!
02:32.22 fiberchunks no doubt -- call guinness :)
02:32.33 fiberchunks ...cause I need a beer
02:33.03 brlcad ~beer fiberchunks
02:33.04 ibot ACTION pulls out a excellent Piraat for fiberchunks
02:33.10 fiberchunks danke
02:35.36 brlcad ``Erik: you noticed that the new tcl isn't getting our build flags any more?
02:35.57 brlcad since b2 update afaict
02:36.19 brlcad starseeker: for that configure log, is there a system incrtcl already installed?
02:36.26 brlcad i.e. did it fail to detect
02:36.38 starseeker Should be - itcl and itk are installed...
02:36.39 brlcad or is the abort correct
02:36.50 starseeker hang on, let me make sure...
02:36.56 brlcad should see why the test failed
02:37.10 brlcad might be something as simple as needing some -lz or something
02:37.22 starseeker I have itcl-3.3 and itk-3.3 installed using the portage system
02:37.38 starseeker In /usr/lib/itcl3.3
02:37.40 brlcad look in config.log for Itcl_Init
02:38.04 brlcad those are the data resources, the libs are "somewhere" else
02:38.19 starseeker configure:30575: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.4
02:38.39 starseeker configure:30639: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl34
02:38.47 starseeker configure:30703: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.3
02:38.57 starseeker that should be it...
02:39.03 brlcad huh?
02:39.08 starseeker version 3.3
02:39.18 starseeker letsee here...
02:39.20 brlcad nah nah, there is massive sections in config.log related to those tests
02:39.35 starseeker Oh, want me to pastebin all of it?
02:39.48 brlcad all of what?
02:39.56 starseeker that section of config.log
02:40.00 brlcad i want to see all of just one of the tests that should have succeeded
02:40.12 brlcad like the -litcl3.3 test
02:40.30 brlcad presuming you have a libitcl3.3.so
02:40.49 starseeker http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m575b452b
02:41.19 brlcad locate libitcl
02:41.37 brlcad that one at least correctly "failed"
02:41.40 starseeker I don't have locate on this box, one sec...
02:41.47 brlcad /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -litcl3.3
02:42.19 brlcad don't have locate o.O
02:42.42 starseeker /usr/lib/itcl3.3/libitcl3.3.so is the file in question...
02:44.20 brlcad wow
02:44.29 brlcad that's ..
02:44.30 brlcad special
02:45.00 starseeker The location or not having locate?
02:45.06 brlcad yes :)
02:45.09 starseeker Hehe
02:45.14 brlcad but the location in particular
02:45.26 brlcad how is an app that uses libitcl supposed to link against it?
02:45.27 starseeker That's where the ebuild stuck it - let me check the ebuild...
02:45.35 brlcad without manually adding that ld path
02:45.47 brlcad where is libtcl installed?
02:46.21 starseeker /usr/lib/tcl8.4
02:46.34 brlcad inside that dir?
02:46.41 starseeker with /usr/lib having libtcl.so, libtcl8.4.so
02:46.43 starseeker yes
02:46.45 brlcad ahh
02:46.56 brlcad it has symlinks into it in /usr/lib
02:47.03 brlcad *that* makes sense
02:47.14 ``Erik brlcad: no... remind me at lunch tomorrow :D
02:47.20 brlcad just throwing libs into a dir with no ref to them doesn't
02:47.26 starseeker It would appear that libitcl does not
02:47.36 starseeker have anything in /usr/lib
02:47.48 ``Erik itcl 3.3 does not play well with tcl 8.5b1
02:48.08 starseeker Well, my system tcl is 8.4
02:48.41 brlcad if you run bwish and package require Itcl, what does it do?
02:48.46 brlcad s/bwish/wish/
02:48.50 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: since our build flags aren't getting passed through to tcl for some reason (which isn't all that bad so far), just reference our common.h directly
02:49.03 ``Erik ok
02:49.12 ``Erik I guess you don't need to remind me at lunch
02:49.13 ``Erik O.o
02:49.14 starseeker cyapp@localhost /usr/portage $ wish
02:49.14 starseeker package require % Itcl
02:49.15 starseeker 3.3
02:49.15 starseeker %
02:49.23 starseeker and a window pops up after wish
02:49.56 brlcad that takes care of the error .. not sure we care if other flags aren't passed -- i'd gather it might be a bigger problem on a non-gcc platform
02:50.10 brlcad yeah, the window is default wish behavior, that's just tk
02:50.16 starseeker right
02:50.20 brlcad i wonder how wish is finding itcl
02:50.28 brlcad set auto_path
02:50.40 brlcad what does that report?
02:51.13 starseeker /usr/lib/tcl8.4 /usr/lib /usr/lib/tk8.4
02:51.30 brlcad huh
02:52.19 brlcad is itcl.tcl in tcl8.4 or itcl3.3 dir?
02:52.58 brlcad and what does ldd `which wish` report?
02:53.13 starseeker /usr/lib/itcl3.3/itcl.tcl
02:54.01 starseeker no sign of itcl
02:54.22 starseeker let me pastebin the result...
02:54.48 starseeker http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7549ba41
02:55.36 starseeker Ah - there is an itclConfig.sh file in /usr/lib
02:56.32 starseeker http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m21cfb12e
02:56.39 starseeker I'll bet that's it
02:57.11 starseeker Anybody else have that file in /usr/lib?
02:57.28 brlcad that'd be one way to find the lib
02:57.49 brlcad but I doubt still not what wish is using
03:02.42 starseeker The only thing I see in any generic file is /usr/include has itcl and itk .h files
03:03.40 brlcad ah well, suppose it doesn't matter too much .. I can use the config script
03:03.47 starseeker and as far as I can tell, the portage package system isn't doing any special magic when it is doing the installs...
03:04.10 starseeker Anybody else got a Gentoo system on the list?
03:10.47 yukonbob brlcad: re: finding /usr/lib/itcl3.3 in portage -- I bet the build system must setup "default" paths/ENV vars to get the portage system to work, and require flags to "manually" build against it -- my 3rd party libs/tools are /usr/pkg/[blah] -- which makes total sense for this system...
03:11.55 starseeker What does it mean when you get a "Cannot allocate memory" error in a cvs checkout???
03:13.35 yukonbob brlcad: iirc, tcls autopath searches dirs and all subdirs
03:14.01 starseeker brlcad: Thanks for taking the time to work on this :-)
03:17.12 yukonbob ...not to mention the *Config.sh for leading tcl around to find it's bits/self... though like ``Erik said, nobody really likes it -- it's a bit of an ongoing issue finding the best way to have tcl know what system it's on, introspect about itself, etc.
03:28.19 brlcad yukonbob: really? didn't think it was recursive
03:28.29 brlcad but that would explain finding itcl
03:29.06 brlcad and I still didn't think the config scripts were used by anything at run-time
03:29.27 brlcad just part of tea build interface
03:31.44 yukonbob brlcad: re: Config -- you may well be correct there -- I'm _not_ an expert in this case -- and I think that anybody who _is_ an expert wishes for something better ;)
03:32.34 yukonbob (from what I glean from conversations with & between devs.)
03:50.59 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/Makefile.am: fix dist, apparently no longer a mac dir here?
03:53.43 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: wrong ver file in dist
03:56.10 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: fix dist, there is no brlcad dir
05:36.09 brlcad awshome .. now detects files missing from the dist in a useful manner
05:38.34 yukonbob :) -- hey (only curious here, not pushing), did you see what is responsible for the errant pixels in the hub?
06:08.33 brlcad oh heck no, that'll take a quite while to investigate
06:09.06 brlcad but I was able to reproduce it, so that's good/bad
06:11.58 brlcad I also don't have the right build setup at the moment to dive into it, but thanks for getting the model over -- it's in the queue to investigate
06:29.06 yukonbob :)
06:30.00 yukonbob if there's something I can do here, lemme know
06:48.06 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/Makefile.loc: pointless and out-of-date old build file removed
06:49.54 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add missing remapid manual page to the install/dist
06:52.04 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/Makefile.loc fbed/Makefile.loc libbn/Makefile.loc): more obsolete and out-of-date old build files, now removed
06:58.23 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c:
06:58.25 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: semaphore protect the crash report being generated on bomb so that only one
06:58.27 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: thread/process is writing out to the log file at a time. only allow one of them
06:58.29 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: to write to the file, depending on whether the log file for that process already
06:58.31 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: exists. we use BU_SEM_MAPPEDFILE since that really shouldn't be in use during
06:58.35 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: bombing.
07:05.19 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
07:05.21 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: fixed garbled output during parallel crash reports. if you were on a parallel
07:05.23 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: system with mutiple threads/procs in action when bu_bomb() is invoked, multiple
07:05.25 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: threads/procs ended up writing out to the crash report file. this fix
07:05.27 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: synchronizes the output and removes the garbled interleaving.
07:40.47 brlcad yay, all binaries finally uploaded (except windows)
07:41.14 brlcad tomorrow hopefully can make all of the announcements
07:56.08 *** join/#brlcad DEFCON (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
08:27.10 *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:42.15 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726729.dsl.bell.ca)
08:45.59 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-165.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:51.08 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Initial check-in.
12:11.33 Defcon ? what?
12:19.37 brlcad Defcon: ?
12:22.02 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: there is that brlcad.sln now..
12:25.31 Defcon yeah
12:25.31 Defcon what is CIA-27 saying?
14:18.08 brlcad Defcon: CIA-27 shows commits to the BRL-CAD source code repository (i.e. actual changes to the code) as they happen
14:19.16 Defcon that is sweet
14:19.20 brlcad so there it was saying that bob1961 (one of the brl-cad developers) made a change, namely that he added the misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln visual studio build file
14:19.44 Defcon is it made in visual studio?
14:19.56 brlcad brl-cad is cross-platform
14:20.00 brlcad extensively
14:20.03 Defcon nice
14:20.21 Defcon but if you guys are open source
14:20.37 Defcon who pays for the visual studio licence
14:21.07 brlcad just because we're open source doesn't mean we're broke and waiting for hand-outs :)
14:21.25 brlcad different for each dev/contributor
14:22.08 Defcon ohw :)
14:22.11 brlcad I buy what I need, for example, in addition to the slew of open source software I use and work on
14:22.53 Defcon are you a C programmer?
14:23.01 brlcad I have windows and studio but rarely use them myself, only from time to time for brl-cad
14:23.14 brlcad most of the time, I use my macs, bsd, and linux
14:23.20 Defcon nice
14:23.39 Defcon btw: who are u, 'cause i think brlcad can't speak for itselves
14:23.39 Defcon :)
14:23.49 ``Erik he is brlcad
14:23.59 Defcon brlcad is an app
14:24.00 Defcon :)
14:24.17 ``Erik and defcon is a military state system
14:24.32 ``Erik :D
14:24.40 Defcon :)
14:24.43 Defcon indeed
14:24.50 Defcon from the us
14:24.57 Defcon i'm from Belgium
14:25.11 Defcon and a fellow Developper, not a system :)
14:25.41 ``Erik well, you can be a defense condition, and brlcad can be an app, it's all good :D
14:25.45 brlcad Defcon: "brl-cad" is an app, "brlcad" is me :)
14:25.51 ``Erik I thought it was BRL-CAD
14:25.52 Defcon haha ok
14:25.57 brlcad that too
14:26.07 Defcon yeah, that's more impressive
14:26.07 Defcon :)
14:26.25 Defcon man i love the Stryker ICV w/ Slat Armor rendered with ADRT/RISE render
14:26.45 brlcad Twingy put that one together
14:26.50 brlcad pretty slick, eh?
14:26.59 ``Erik I think that took a week or two on an 18 core mini-cluster
14:27.14 Defcon very nice
14:27.30 Defcon ``Erik to render?
14:27.31 ``Erik has all the goodies turned on, depth of field, hypersampling, etc
14:28.06 brlcad Defcon: so you're a developer?
14:28.11 ``Erik yeah
14:28.12 ``Erik 5 days
14:28.15 ``Erik it's on the image
14:28.28 Defcon yeah
14:28.37 Defcon indeed brlcad
14:28.38 ``Erik um, every blade of grass and leaf is modelled
14:28.41 brlcad then welcome :)
14:28.46 Defcon ty :)
14:28.55 ``Erik there are no textures, imposters, or anything
14:28.59 brlcad lemme know where we can get you hacking and contributing ;)
14:29.13 Defcon hacking..? :D
14:29.24 brlcad it's a big package, but don't let it be daunting -- feel free to ask questions ;)
14:29.33 brlcad hacking == developing
14:29.37 Defcon ohw :)
14:29.48 Defcon i'm an vb / asp.net programmer
14:30.13 Defcon so.. i dunno if i can add something to your app
14:30.13 Defcon :)
14:30.43 brlcad hey, most languages if you know them well translate to other languages without too much effort
14:30.45 Defcon BRL-CAD is way to advanced for me
14:31.57 ``Erik <-- thinks one of the biggest ways to improve your coding skill is to honestly learn new languages and paradigms
14:32.06 brlcad Defcon: so then what's your interest?
14:32.30 Defcon everything that has to do something with coding :)
14:32.37 brlcad it's too big to qualitatively say that the *whole* thing is too advanced for you :)
14:32.45 ``Erik and one of the neater ways to do that might be to grab some tickle and write modelling scripts, very quick to get very visual results
14:32.53 ``Erik tcl
14:33.02 Defcon tcl?
14:33.12 ``Erik the scripting language we're using
14:33.27 ``Erik http://www.tcl.tk
14:33.40 Defcon ah
14:33.41 brlcad or even write some procedural geometry stuff in VB for that matter
14:34.08 brlcad just hook up to the brl-cad dll's like you would for any language in vb
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14:34.23 Defcon yeah
14:34.29 ``Erik hm, vb stuff tends not to work so well on mac, freebsd, openbsd, linux, irix, solaris, ...
14:34.30 Defcon i know how to use dll's
14:34.35 Defcon might be a start
14:35.04 ``Erik ruby might be sexier :D
14:35.11 brlcad there are tons of small example programs in src/proc-db (in C) and src/mk for making procedural geometry, but it helps if you kinda had some sort of goal in mind
14:35.54 Defcon my goal now is to find a goal
14:35.55 Defcon :)
14:36.12 Defcon that's one reason i'm here
14:36.41 brlcad lots of potential goals here: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
14:37.13 brlcad though VB won't help with most of them
14:37.40 Defcon hmm
14:37.41 Defcon Web Work
14:38.13 brlcad do you know anything other than asp?
14:38.19 Defcon vb :)
14:38.22 Defcon sql server
14:38.26 Defcon ..
14:38.26 brlcad or are interested in learning :)
14:38.34 Defcon offcourse i am
14:38.35 brlcad something like php or ruby or python
14:38.48 Defcon why those?
14:39.06 ``Erik the web stuff is php on a freebsd server, backed by mysql I think
14:39.20 Defcon ohw
14:39.22 ``Erik adrt/rise uses some python
14:39.36 brlcad mysql or postgres or whatever is needed (but open source)
14:40.10 Defcon i have worked a very little bit with php, mysql and apache
14:40.24 Defcon but that knowledge is allready gone
14:40.27 brlcad and I really have no inclination of installing the fp extensions to apache .. :)
14:40.43 Defcon :)
14:41.36 Defcon i started leaning C once
14:41.46 Defcon via the interwebz
14:41.53 brlcad php, ruby, python, perl, lisp, etc, are all easy to set up if they're not set up already
14:41.57 Defcon and Maloeran's app/game
14:42.21 brlcad some more ideas: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/IDEAS
14:42.28 ``Erik his web space thingy? I thought that was all striaght C, wrote his own httpd or something
14:42.45 Defcon indeed
14:43.35 ``Erik <-- has an urge to learn 'ajax' with a CL backed server chunk lately
14:43.53 Defcon i know a bit of ajax
14:44.24 Defcon btw: www.ectroverse.com
14:44.34 Defcon mal's game is still up and running
14:44.45 ``Erik http://www.cliki.net/CL-AJAX <-- something I've been looking at
14:44.46 Defcon completely build in C
14:45.07 Defcon i do not know Lisp
14:45.09 Defcon :)
14:47.18 Defcon in mal's sourcecode : void InitHTTP()
14:47.38 Defcon so he basicly wrote his own webserver?
14:48.55 ``Erik I think he did... *shrug* I d'no, I never saw the code
14:49.21 ``Erik webservers are easy to write, I had an assignment to write one at school many years ago
14:49.22 Defcon http://www.wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip
14:49.30 Defcon really
14:52.29 Defcon if it was that easy, i would have made one
14:52.58 Defcon btw: what is an .o file?
14:52.59 ``Erik heh, yeah, that's a standalone web server
14:53.04 ``Erik object
14:53.11 ``Erik um, you probably recognize them as .obj
14:53.11 Defcon and why isn't that plain text
14:53.12 Defcon ohw
14:54.05 ``Erik my, the thing isn't threaded and doesn't seem to throw child processes, several people playing at the same time would see delays in loading the page O.o
14:55.03 Defcon never had any probs with that..
14:55.15 Defcon .ascx file these days i gues
14:55.19 Defcon *guess
14:55.50 Defcon the ectroverse server stats: http://shell2.skyberate.net:9120/status
14:56.01 Defcon Server program CPU usage ( average )
14:56.01 Defcon Total usage : 0.106 %
14:56.01 Defcon In user mode : 0.034 %
14:56.02 Defcon In kernel mode : 0.072 %
14:56.59 Defcon + the whole game only uses 7mb RAM
14:57.08 Defcon on the server
14:57.40 ``Erik doesn't change the fact that it's completely serial, if I looked at it with a 300 baud modem, anyone else connecting would have to wait until I finished getting the page before they could get theirs
14:58.05 Defcon o'rly..
14:58.23 Defcon hopefully u don't do that :)
14:58.36 Defcon btw: how do u see that?
14:58.38 ``Erik no, I'll use the 1200 baud modem
14:59.10 Defcon ok :)
14:59.11 ``Erik the C, it's a simple loop, no threading or forking
14:59.57 Defcon hmm
15:00.14 Defcon it will take some time for me to understand that
15:00.34 Defcon i've been looking at his code since he made it in 2002/2003
15:01.00 Defcon and i still don't understand a line from it
15:01.38 ``Erik erm, quit looking a that pile and go write some trivial C programs to start learning the language? :D *duck*
15:02.34 Defcon haha yeah
15:02.45 Defcon but
15:02.47 Defcon :p
15:03.01 Defcon how do i start learning C :)
15:03.07 Defcon in windows btw :)
15:03.18 ``Erik download a free compiler?
15:03.27 Defcon u know any good ones?
15:04.09 ``Erik I usually grab 'cygwin' when I have to do C on windows, but it emulates a unix-ey environment... mingw32 ummmm, djgpp, msys...
15:04.19 ``Erik microsoft offers their cc for free I think (but no ide on it)
15:04.44 Defcon ok..
15:04.47 ``Erik the first C I wrote on a winderz computer was using 'pcc' and, um, "ultraedit32" to write it
15:04.52 Defcon cygwin, i'll google that
15:05.16 ``Erik I think lcc is free and available for windows, ummmm
15:05.35 Defcon lcc, pcc, ..?
15:05.39 Defcon lol
15:05.50 ``Erik 'cc' stands for "C compiler" in this context...
15:06.25 Defcon i'll be using Notepad++ in stead of ultraedit32
15:06.29 Defcon will that work?
15:06.54 ``Erik as long as it cna product ascii text...
15:07.05 ``Erik technically, you could do it using 'word' :)
15:07.41 Defcon yeah
15:07.47 ``Erik if you like living dangerously, 'gvim' and 'emacs' are both available on windows, they're pretty heavy hitting editors with lots of goodies for programmers
15:08.09 Defcon but notepad++ has a C markup check thingie
15:08.21 Defcon i like living dangerously, but i'm at work atm
15:08.23 Defcon so.. :)
15:08.42 ``Erik ooh, irc from work, I'd never do anything like that *cough* O:-)
15:08.48 Defcon :D
15:10.19 Defcon anyway
15:10.20 Defcon bbl
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15:39.59 brlcad Defcon: there are plenty of good free compilers for windows -- there's mingw, cygwin, and Dev-C++ as well as Visual Studio Express is even free .. I'd suggest starting with that one with your background, then just writing some simple console applications
15:43.42 Z80-Boy free as in beer
15:45.09 Defcon i have the Visual Studio Professional
15:45.46 Defcon so i'm set to go :)
15:45.48 Defcon i think
15:47.07 Z80-Boy brlcad: I just changed Ronja to use outlined 3D pictures. Now I am recompiling all the pictures this way so when it's finished you can see what it looks like.
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17:12.54 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (viewhide.c viewxray.c): AmbientIntensity is already declared in optical.h
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18:30.55 yukonbob hello, cadheads
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20:00.18 prasad_ howdy
20:00.19 prasad_ :)
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20:23.23 brlcad howdy prasad_
20:23.28 brlcad ltns
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20:58.11 prasad_ hey hey
21:00.19 brlcad how goes it?
21:00.33 brlcad knocked up and expecting yet?
21:01.13 prasad_ haha nah
21:01.26 prasad_ damn wedding reception in a month tho
21:01.28 prasad_ pain
21:01.30 prasad_ hehe
21:01.44 prasad_ how's life at the A-P-G ;)
21:02.04 brlcad bout the same as always
21:02.28 brlcad some things better, some things worse
21:04.31 prasad_ ah so
21:04.43 prasad_ m3 still chugging along?
21:05.26 brlcad yup yup
21:05.36 brlcad even got some fresh blood
21:05.52 prasad_ cool cool
21:05.55 prasad_ same mgmt?
21:05.57 ``Erik oi, prasad
21:06.13 prasad_ hey yo
21:06.14 brlcad prasad_: as ever, save for acst
21:06.24 ``Erik had a going away luncheon for the pm and business analyst today O.o
21:06.33 prasad_ whoa
21:06.42 prasad_ m3 pm?
21:06.46 brlcad :)
21:06.47 ``Erik yup
21:06.51 prasad_ haha!
21:06.57 prasad_ reassigned?
21:07.01 prasad_ demoted??
21:07.06 prasad_ *snicker*
21:07.25 prasad_ ohh wait
21:08.09 ``Erik um, sorta kinda a 'lateral promotion'
21:08.10 prasad_ im confusing old pm with new
21:08.10 prasad_ doh
21:08.10 prasad_ damn.. been a year
21:08.20 ``Erik still at the videogame middleware place? vector ui stuff?
21:08.27 prasad_ indeed
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21:08.39 prasad_ crysis and mass effect
21:08.44 prasad_ go get em :P
21:09.04 ``Erik dude, wow eats too much of my time already O.o
21:09.13 ``Erik I can't be addin' on new gams
21:09.16 prasad_ are you serious???
21:09.17 prasad_ hahaha
21:09.22 prasad_ never thought u'd cave in
21:09.40 ``Erik gf brought the discs over, made me install and try it
21:09.56 prasad_ and the addiction spreads
21:09.59 prasad_ hehe
21:10.39 prasad_ we've got a cpl of wow heads here
21:10.48 ``Erik which followed by a group of old friends I talk to on irc jumping into it *sigh*
21:11.29 prasad_ what are u upto project wise
21:12.41 ``Erik <-- still doing BRL-CAD
21:13.17 ``Erik tried to go to cisd, but someone threw 3 tons of red tape on that :/
21:13.32 prasad_ heh by old pm i meant her
21:13.35 prasad_ :o
21:13.46 ``Erik <-- assumed that
21:14.15 prasad_ any ui changes to brlcad?
21:14.18 prasad_ or still the same
21:19.03 starseeker Sweeet. Ebuild now installs into /usr/lib/brlcad
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21:28.35 dtidrow_work http://blogs.intel.com/research/2007/10/real_time_raytracing_the_end_o.html - did you guys comment about this back in Oct.?
21:31.07 ``Erik probably, the article lacks some details, so it makes it hard to be certain
21:31.48 ``Erik intel has a few big raytracing pushes going on, including a couple regular presenters at siggraph *shrug* one would almost think they're serious :)
21:36.22 prasad_ u guys get a cluster of ps3s yet? :P
21:39.35 prasad_ heh im sure they could
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22:10.12 Twingy hi prasad
22:20.19 prasad_ hey justin
22:20.25 prasad_ wassup
22:31.21 prasad_ some in game screens of crysis if u havent seen em already: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165243
22:38.41 Twingy very nice!
22:39.07 brlcad dtidrow_work: yeah, commented and duly yawned on it .. intel has been (rightly) pushing ray-tracing to supplant raster for a couple years now -- the real trick is going to be opengl hooks to (easily) allow it, which is still pretty far off (programmability isn't suficient)
22:39.58 brlcad too much of a moving target, and the cpu-based approaches while good aren't nearly even as open as opengl was at its inception (nor as well coordinated)
22:40.53 brlcad prasad_: thems rather impressive screenshots
22:41.01 prasad_ rastered ;)
22:41.08 brlcad yep, very nice
22:41.22 prasad_ ~1-2M tris
22:42.10 brlcad prasad_: and how many procedural shaders? :)
22:42.11 prasad_ to be fair that example isn't really feasible for a game
22:42.23 prasad_ maybe in about 2 gfx hw cycles, they'll get good perf
22:42.46 brlcad yeah.. 1GB mem use is a bit intense for commodity
22:42.47 prasad_ quite a lot, but cryengine's editor is mighty easy to use
22:42.59 prasad_ that's RAM usage btw
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22:43.09 brlcad ah, fun
22:43.25 brlcad wonder how much tex mem
22:44.01 prasad_ id say prolly around 200
22:45.39 prasad_ iirc one of our devs is going to present a paper at the next siggraph
22:45.44 prasad_ wonder if they'll let me go :P
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22:49.51 prasad_ brlcad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBp3LxAetHk
23:02.49 *** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
23:12.46 starseeker This should at least put brl-cad in the "proper" location - now we're probably down to calling the autogen.sh script and the hostility to using internal copies of libs (some of which don't even HAVE ebuilds yet for their stand-alone versions...)
23:18.40 louipc starseeker: where do you put the executables?
23:20.16 starseeker louipc: /usr/lib/brlcad/bin
23:20.22 starseeker louipc: Then I add that to PATH
23:20.30 starseeker (gentoo has a mechanism for that)
23:22.51 starseeker louipc: Got a gentoo box handy? ;-)
23:23.47 louipc nope
23:24.14 louipc hmm I might look into doing the same for my pkg
23:24.31 starseeker It's the only safe way to stick it in the /usr tree
23:24.42 starseeker And they're quite insistent about it not going anywhere else...
23:24.50 louipc hehe yeah
23:25.39 starseeker I also add /usr/lib/brlcad/man to the MANPATH, so man mged does something useful too ;-)
23:25.47 louipc but brlcad is a huge package, my distro would probably be ok with it being in /opt also considering the potential conflicts, but there's been an initiative recently to move things to /usr
23:26.22 louipc you could probably put the manpages in the regular manpath non?
23:26.50 brlcad i am not!
23:26.56 starseeker Only if no internal tcl/tk goodies are installed - they conflict with system packages
23:26.58 brlcad I'm rather short, actually
23:27.45 louipc oh right hah
23:28.11 starseeker Eventually Gentoo would probably be able to supply enough external libs that the internal ones wouldn't be needed, but that'll be a long struggle
23:28.29 starseeker (considering we're coming up on the THREE YEAR MARK for the main brl-cad bug... ahem)
23:28.32 brlcad but I do _have_ a huge package *ahem*
23:28.37 brlcad er, never mind
23:28.43 brlcad :)
23:29.02 louipc brlcad: good to know
23:29.03 brlcad thank you, I'm here all week
23:29.12 brlcad try the lobster bisque
23:29.26 louipc now I'm hungry
23:29.35 starseeker mmm food...
23:29.58 louipc I think I'll go buy some RAM
23:30.10 starseeker That's rather crunchy
23:30.14 brlcad hehe, "And what exactly are you supposed to do when printf() returns false? Display an error message? "
23:30.31 starseeker I think you have the computer yell something ;-)
23:31.42 louipc make it emit a foul odour
23:34.00 louipc I wonder what scent static or white noise would smell like
23:34.32 starseeker Maybe that's what I smell when I walk by a perfume counter in a department store...
23:38.25 louipc nice
23:49.06 louipc indeed!
23:49.22 starseeker Considering how old the system is, there's a lot of stuff there - compresses down with gzip to slightly over 118 megs
23:58.00 ``Erik er
23:58.11 ``Erik you had three sushi lunches, dude

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