IRC log for #brlcad on 20071116

00:00.00 brlcad wow, that sure is ugly :)
00:04.42 ``Erik nifty
00:36.31 CIA-27 libirc: 03brlcad * r317 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCUserManager.h: eof newline
00:46.33 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
00:47.05 yukonbob hello, cadders.
00:48.14 ``Erik yargh, matey, shiver me timbers
00:48.41 ``Erik http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/2135204
00:48.41 ``Erik http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/1611208
00:48.55 ``Erik (for those that don't imbibe regularly)
00:53.49 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r319 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: no longer log when we get a part message.
00:56.32 ``Erik hrm
00:56.46 ``Erik egEnable(EG_GRIPE_MODE);
00:57.09 ``Erik are you not in #libirc? must those who don't give a flying fuck about libirc see the cia msg's? :D
00:57.14 ``Erik egDisable(EG_GRIPE_MODE);
00:59.38 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r320 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: check the params and settings before we try to parse private messages to make sure they are valid
01:00.22 bpoole brings a new meaning to commit early, commit often. like every 10 minutes :)
01:00.43 ``Erik <-- just being a dick, it don't really bother me... :)
01:01.26 ``Erik I've seen more irc libs than I care to look at, and know too much of rfc1459 to be considered 'healthy' or 'sane'
01:01.54 ``Erik so these msgs' are just 'one thing to burn cycles for an "ignore" in the cognative filter'
01:10.03 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r322 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: don't do a message on kick, it's stupid and chashes when it's YOU that gets kicked
01:15.53 CIA-27 libirc: 03brlcad * r323 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 4 dirs): test
01:16.29 *** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
01:17.32 brlcad yukonbob: howdy!
01:17.36 brlcad goodbad news :)
01:18.01 brlcad I know what causes those specs now
01:18.58 brlcad it's related to floating point tolerance on the negative arb being used to get the inside of that torus (which is pretty damn creative if I do say so myself)
01:19.54 brlcad related to how segments are weaved and how it ends up with an infinitely thin "cut" segment along the inside of that cylinder that tweaks the normal ever so slightly
01:20.24 brlcad talking with another one of the devs sometime soon to see if/what we can do about it .. very core/hard problem that goes back to a really old issue
01:21.55 CIA-27 libirc: 03brlcad * r324 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: test
01:43.06 CIA-27 libirc: 03brlcad * r326 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/sample.cfg: test
01:45.36 ``Erik O.o
01:46.15 ``Erik huh
01:46.59 ``Erik I hopped on #awos cuz it looked kinda interesting... lotta folk there also on #bzflag, #bzpod, #bzw, #bzfx, #bzflag, ...
01:50.39 *** join/#brlcad rdv (n=rdv@ool-44c79849.dyn.optonline.net)
01:52.35 CIA-27 libirc: 03brlcad * r328 10/trunk/libirc/src/ircBasicCommands.cpp: oops, didn't intend to commmit the commented-out processing of privmsg
01:53.10 yukonbob brlcad: hey :)
01:54.19 brlcad awilcox is a bzflagger
01:54.58 yukonbob brlcad: re: floating point -- !!!That was my guess...
01:55.53 brlcad yeah, it's in a bizzare backwards way
01:57.02 brlcad it doesn't matter that the cut/intersect object is in negative space .. it doesn't know the boolean until it's time to weave segments
01:58.39 yukonbob reminds _me_ of dealing with financial numbers, where nothing of significance is done w/ floating point, but instead use decimal floats instead of binary -- does any of that sound interesting for this case?
01:59.29 brlcad it's interesting, just not highly practical :)
01:59.59 brlcad doing fixed point math of any sort kills performance, as that is at the core of the ray-intersection engine
02:00.21 yukonbob ya -- unless there's a specific version for the IBM z80 :P
02:00.29 brlcad heh, true
02:00.54 yukonbob well, it is a goodnews/badnews situation isn't it :)
02:07.36 *** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:13.56 ``Erik 'winny', too
02:15.07 brlcad ah
02:15.16 brlcad he's a punk kid ;)
02:15.32 brlcad good intentions but a lot to learn still
02:21.01 ``Erik which? winny? or wilcox?
02:21.01 ``Erik both kinda seem like punk kids to me :D
02:25.50 ``Erik that commercial claimed it was a flatbread, but it sure didn't look like a flat bread... (quiznos "sammies")
02:27.12 rdv does anyone know if brlcad has been used for image-based modeling (2D to 3D)?
02:31.03 brlcad rdv: not directly that I'm aware of
02:31.21 brlcad a great research area, one we've often talked about getting into
02:31.37 ``Erik heh, didn't you submit a dri on that?
02:31.42 brlcad yep
02:33.00 ``Erik I think the implications of how that could be applied would push me away form that...
02:33.01 brlcad I'm pretty sure I could have made it work too
02:33.16 brlcad at least to a proof of concept level
02:33.39 brlcad yeah, kinda freaky uses if the system was solid
02:33.47 ``Erik making better armor is all grand, but making better bullets...
02:34.07 brlcad especially as it became reasonably near real-time
02:35.19 brlcad it'll all converge one day anyways
02:35.48 brlcad maybe I'll do my thesis on it or something instead
02:35.51 rdv well ImageModeler and PhotoModeler exist already for those who have freaky uses in mind :)
02:36.02 rdv not sure how powerful they are though
02:36.12 brlcad rdv: he's talking about a research direction we almost took down that path
02:36.28 brlcad pretty automatic 3D acquisition from video
02:36.58 rdv is this a university or an independent lab?
02:37.03 brlcad i've used image modeler, it's pretty nifty albeit exceptionally manual and time-intensive
02:37.14 brlcad indep. lab
02:37.21 ``Erik gov't lab
02:37.55 iday brlcad: thesis?
02:38.43 brlcad yeah.. a little ways off still, but on my mind
02:38.50 ``Erik iday == jay-lo?
02:39.16 iday yup
02:39.30 ``Erik singer with the 'badonkadonk'? O.o heh :D
02:39.37 ``Erik hah
02:39.41 ``Erik gaffagan or something
02:39.46 iday um... no
02:39.50 iday thats missy
02:39.51 ``Erik gaffigan
02:39.58 ``Erik hooooooot pockets
02:40.11 ``Erik so, uh, dude, a mini for your icon? DORK!
02:40.16 brlcad erm, my comment is because I'm munching on some hot pockets atm :)
02:40.21 iday ? oh... aim
02:40.46 iday and, what, an m3 is cool? so 90s
02:40.50 ``Erik heh
02:40.56 ``Erik I drive it, I don't make it my icon
02:41.13 iday it was in a pinch.. better than a leaf
02:41.39 ``Erik hum, I think I'm using a southpark icon
02:41.46 ``Erik other places, I use a hal9000 icon :)
02:41.48 brlcad mm, i'd go for a mini icon :P
02:41.50 iday mr. brlcad didn't answer my question...
02:42.00 ``Erik yeah, he's an elusive little bitch
02:42.02 iday i've seen that one... nice
02:42.14 brlcad maaa'aan.. take a look at that mini .. that suckers HUGE!
02:42.27 iday uh huuuh...
02:42.54 iday although i do like brlcad's "Combat" tank
02:42.57 ``Erik when I worked at fedex, I was using freebsd on my desktop, used um,sawfish and bits of gnome, turned the gnome panel black and put it on the right, make the background black and had a hal eye in the middle of my screen :)
02:43.02 brlcad uhh thaank ya .. thank yaa very much
02:43.07 iday hehe
02:43.10 ``Erik I don't think I have brlcad on aim or yahoo
02:43.32 brlcad they're the devil
02:43.37 iday hah
02:43.52 iday use jabber then
02:43.58 ``Erik jay-lo, um, "linked in"?
02:44.10 iday huh?
02:44.14 brlcad the site?
02:44.33 ``Erik latest 'social network'
02:44.42 ``Erik more geared for... y'know, grownups... i think :D
02:44.45 iday no - i don't really do any of those...
02:45.06 iday anything is for grownup compared to the likes of myshiite..
02:45.08 ``Erik I got an invite from old cow orkers, so I succumbed
02:45.08 brlcad yeah, it's a prof. connections site .. kinda pointless unless you're job hunting maybe
02:45.18 brlcad been up for a few years
02:45.25 ``Erik heh, um
02:45.32 ``Erik diesel sweeties mocked all that just recently
02:45.35 brlcad not nearly as fun as ohloh or amihotornot
02:45.49 ``Erik http://www.dieselsweeties.com/
02:45.58 ``Erik heh
02:46.30 ``Erik I remember in the very early days of 'ratemyrack' (thinkin' hotornot)... someone got a high score with a pick of a 19" rack loaded with gear...
02:47.02 iday you and your funky sites... like the kitties... jeez... the kitties, man!
02:47.16 ``Erik hahahaha
02:47.26 ``Erik icanhascheezburger.com !!!
02:47.29 ``Erik how can you not love it???
02:47.32 iday ha!
02:47.39 brlcad clay kitten shooting?
02:47.50 ``Erik I mean
02:47.50 iday trying to get my damn neural network to learn XOR... not converging for some reason...
02:48.05 ``Erik "cute" pics, lamer geek humor... ... :D
02:48.10 brlcad ah
02:48.14 ``Erik that's funny
02:48.28 ``Erik I drug up my "box o' goodies" like half an hour ago
02:48.28 iday did you see the xkcd?
02:48.34 ``Erik xkcd is on my daily list
02:48.39 ``Erik http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php
02:49.03 ``Erik <-- tryin gto decide what ic's to put on his breadboard... the 16f88, or a few 74 series ttl's
02:49.03 iday mrs roberts?
02:49.11 starseeker brlcad: Where would you want to do your phd at?
02:49.25 iday brlcad: phd?
02:49.37 iday brlcad: ANSWER ME :-)
02:50.02 iday ``Erik: must punch brlcad the next time you see him
02:50.07 ``Erik um
02:50.13 ``Erik he might punch back
02:50.17 starseeker lol
02:50.18 iday so?
02:50.22 ``Erik and if ya hain't noticed, there may be a slight muscle mass difference
02:50.35 iday come on - just drink some beer beforehand...
02:50.59 brlcad iday: I did answer!
02:51.07 ``Erik I don't get THAT stupid after imbibing, dude
02:51.14 brlcad "yeah.. a little ways off still, but on my mind"
02:51.34 starseeker Is John Hopkins a candidate for that sort of work?
02:51.53 iday doh... musta missed it :(
02:52.04 iday which is?
02:52.07 brlcad i was looking at schools all weekend
02:52.31 brlcad all spawned by an ad I ran across for a uni that specializes in alife
02:52.41 ``Erik I don't want to nickle and dime my way to a masters, I'd want to go on hiatus and commit myself, at some place like cmu or stanford
02:52.57 iday ahh
02:53.00 brlcad starseeker: not the classes I'd take, it's not fun if it's something I already know
02:53.06 iday yeah... a bit hard to do that anywhere...
02:53.08 ``Erik starseeker: I think brlcad is good enough to understand how to learn
02:53.47 ``Erik when I was doing my undergrad work, I figured out what profs knewwhat and bugged them after hours for the extra yard
02:53.48 brlcad i lern good
02:53.52 ``Erik "gud"
02:54.07 ``Erik lurn how tew spll
02:54.11 ``Erik heh
02:54.15 iday coledge stoodint
02:54.16 brlcad guuda chese
02:54.32 starseeker brlcad: Heh. You might get drafted - being a grad student kinda sucks in the "free will" department...
02:54.33 ``Erik there was jabber about how spelling is being taught at lunch yesterday...
02:54.52 ``Erik unfortunately, there's no good way to vocalize something like "hukt on fonix wurkd for me"
02:55.13 ``Erik mmmm gouda
02:56.01 iday ``Erik: probably headed to CMU myself
02:56.03 ``Erik I REALLY need to stop reading sites like folklore.org and paul grahams site
02:56.20 ``Erik um, hoolio is doing his bs there I think
02:56.29 iday considering a leave of absence too
02:56.37 iday hoolio?
02:56.44 ``Erik last time I did my research, if languages and operating systems are your thing, it's really hard to beat cmu
02:56.53 iday or robotics/ai!
02:56.57 ``Erik yeah, bpoole
02:57.08 starseeker ``Erik: Wouldn't it have to pertain to CAD in some shape or form, for you to get the OK to do it?
02:57.28 ``Erik robotics are fun, ai is neat, but I tend to work more towards fundamental theory of computation myself :/
02:57.35 starseeker :-)
02:57.37 iday :-)
02:58.10 iday yeah - then you can write the 2-3 turing machine and prove it :-)
02:58.10 brlcad starseeker: not really
02:58.26 ``Erik heh, wanna copy of my 'brainfuck' suite? compilers, intepreter, and the beginnings of optimization stuff...
02:58.43 starseeker brlcad: cool :-)
02:58.48 iday urgh -- actually i was looking at llvm the other night
02:59.25 iday maybe do some language experimentation once i get finished with the classes
02:59.33 ``Erik my thinking is that any 'solid' optimization on brainfuck could provide a solid theory/lemme grade optimization for any language
03:00.05 iday perhaps - but the primitives are so limited... no real high-level concepts there
03:00.22 ``Erik 'partial evaluation', a pretty complex notion, is represented pretty easily in bf
03:00.39 starseeker cmu is really good - their CMUCL lisp implementation and derivatives thereof are the best free lisps available for a lot of things
03:00.52 ``Erik but it's not a PROVEN notion, and it's approached very ad hoc in practical optimization passes
03:01.13 iday prove it and get a dissertation... done.
03:01.17 iday like nash
03:01.20 ``Erik if it were formalized at the low turing level, mebbe it'd find a much more mature invocation in 'pragmatic' languages
03:01.34 ``Erik cmucl seems ok, I've been looking more at sbcl myself...
03:01.47 starseeker sbcl is a derivative of cmucl
03:02.29 ``Erik I'm learning emacs and slime against sbcl
03:02.41 starseeker That's the right way to do it :-)
03:02.45 iday oh my
03:02.45 ``Erik <-- is a schemer, so is having some trouble adapting to the language, PLUS a new editor (being a vimmer)
03:02.57 iday did Erik say he's touching emacs???
03:03.05 ``Erik yes, yes I did
03:03.08 ``Erik emacs 22 and slime
03:03.18 iday again, i say "oh, my"
03:03.20 ``Erik and I've griped to brlcad about the suckiness of it
03:03.24 iday hah
03:03.29 ``Erik but I'm sticking with it
03:03.31 iday i'm sure he's appreciated your rants
03:04.07 ``Erik even though watching brlcad use emacs to edit a shell script on a projector made me definitely think that either emacs sucks ass or he sucks at using it... *cough* O:-)
03:04.08 brlcad iday: have you seen the new aquaemacs?
03:04.19 brlcad i just saw it today, installed it for bob...
03:04.31 brlcad damn if it didn't finally seem usable and fully properly integrated
03:04.56 iday i've been using it for several years - and yes I have the new one (unless there's a new one in the last month)
03:05.15 brlcad i don't mean the original aqua emacs that was on sf.net and elsewhere
03:05.19 iday except they screwed up the configuration again
03:05.25 iday i know
03:05.35 brlcad http://aquamacs.org
03:05.39 iday you mean aquamacs
03:05.41 iday yes
03:05.42 brlcad yeah
03:05.50 brlcad slick
03:05.59 starseeker ``Erik: I have my beefs with Emacs, but the sense I get is that for many purposes it's so much better than anything else that people use it rather than do what it would take to make a better one...
03:06.04 brlcad f'ing stupid icon, butgood port
03:06.11 iday yeah - the only thing i use for non-java coding
03:06.21 brlcad stupid cowhorse with poney tails
03:06.22 iday no kidding
03:06.35 ``Erik heh
03:06.36 iday ha
03:06.42 ``Erik um
03:06.54 ``Erik yes, it has its purpose... lemme find a url for ya...
03:07.21 brlcad i might actually want to stop using console emacs sometime
03:07.24 starseeker ``Erik: What's driving you to learn lisp?
03:07.55 brlcad he's a scheme nut, using lisp makes him seem slightly less insane
03:08.13 ``Erik um, long term scheme appreciation, and things like "mod-lisp"
03:08.20 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r329 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/IRCClient.cpp src/irClientEvents.cpp):
03:08.22 CIA-27 libirc: send the connection event when we first get some data, not when the MOTD is done.
03:08.24 CIA-27 libirc: This gives us the best possible state as early as possible.
03:08.28 ``Erik I want to use some kinda lithp backed system to figure out ajax
03:08.39 ``Erik and I want persistant globals across the threads
03:08.51 starseeker Ah :-)
03:10.09 iday someone was already working on a lisp-based web framework using ajax... darned if i remember where i saw though - maybe off lemonodor?
03:11.28 starseeker Is this the one? http://www.holygoat.co.uk/applications/cl-ajax/cl-ajax
03:12.22 starseeker Or if you're a hunchentoot fan: http://85.65.214.241/misc/ht-ajax.html
03:12.57 iday not the same one i saw... it had a working demo... maybe defmacro - yeah looks like defmacro: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-weblocks/
03:13.58 starseeker iday: Nice
03:17.10 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
03:17.14 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: bob fixed a bug exposed with the opendb command where it would crash if you said
03:17.16 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: no to create a new file. it was a windows-specific bug related to trying to
03:17.18 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: close fd 0 (which happened to be the default descriptor value). now set to -1
03:17.20 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: and is checked.
03:17.34 ``Erik cl-ajax is the one I've been looking at, yes
03:17.49 ``Erik "nowadays"? dude, it's always been done
03:18.25 ``Erik um
03:18.32 ``Erik take viaweb for example
03:18.35 ``Erik aka yahoo stores
03:18.47 starseeker Oh, the famous example of making money with lisp :-)
03:18.51 ``Erik paul graham and robert morris
03:18.52 ``Erik :D
03:18.54 ``Erik well
03:19.00 ``Erik ratchet and clank might be more famous
03:19.06 ``Erik or autocad
03:20.06 ``Erik heh
03:20.14 ``Erik someone said something along the lines of, um
03:20.25 ``Erik "java drug the developers halfway to lisp"
03:20.32 starseeker Yes, Guy Steele
03:20.34 iday http://www.lambdassociates.org/lC21.htm
03:20.42 iday hehe
03:20.53 starseeker iday: Oh, you know about Qi? :-)
03:20.55 ``Erik oh, guy steele, yes
03:20.58 ``Erik the scheme guy!
03:20.59 ``Erik hah
03:21.06 iday haven't played with it... but yeah
03:21.07 starseeker iday: I'm actually very interested in Qi
03:21.08 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
03:21.08 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
03:21.08 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
03:21.08 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
03:22.00 iday starseeker: i'm interesting in seeing phase 3
03:22.04 iday interested
03:22.25 iday although I
03:22.39 iday i'm unimpressed with Tk choice
03:22.46 iday that'
03:22.46 starseeker iday: Any strong mathematics system like Axiom needs a strongly typed language, and SPAD (Axiom's current language) isn't even well defined
03:22.52 iday kinda turned me off
03:23.02 starseeker yeah, I don't care about the tk part (sorry tk fans)
03:23.07 iday strongly typed you say...
03:23.08 ``Erik tcl has never thrilled me
03:23.27 ``Erik I dorked with it a little, thought it was lame, then got into thcheme, and viewed tcl has a halfassed wannabe :/
03:23.28 iday yeah - i need to play with qi - just to see
03:23.44 starseeker iday: Aldor (www.aldor.org) was the replacement language for SPAD, and some would probably consider it the best mathematical programming language for a CAS available today, but they gummed up the license
03:24.11 starseeker So we can learn from Aldor, but can't use it :-(
03:24.59 ``Erik the last couple days, I've been looking more at asm and javame :( I'm turning lame *cry*
03:25.02 starseeker Qi seems to have done many things the "right way" - implemented the new language inside lisp rather than having an external compiler, is willing to listen to and talk intelligently with critics
03:25.04 brlcad iday: I think my arms are back to what they were, or really close
03:25.05 iday interesting... haven't played with too many algebra systems myself.
03:25.24 starseeker iday: It's my hobby obsession :-)
03:25.25 iday brlcad: bastard. well - come over and play with your godson then
03:25.32 brlcad (at least in size, not strength quite yet)
03:25.40 iday brlcad: you can lift him up and down :-)
03:25.48 ``Erik heh
03:25.51 brlcad but I am le sore
03:25.56 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:26.12 iday and I am le tired
03:26.17 starseeker iday: Started with Maxima, but once I learned enough to appreciate how really messed up (and theoretically weak) it was/is, Axiom seemed like the obvious choice
03:26.44 starseeker iday: Not that Axiom isn't messed up too, but at least it's theoretically closer to what a "proper" CAS should be...
03:26.46 iday starseeker: have played with maxima... but the interface was too clunky for me to get too into it
03:26.46 ``Erik 'maxim'? the magazine? O.o
03:26.48 ``Erik :D
03:26.55 ``Erik oi, twiggly
03:26.58 Twingy I haven't had hot pockets in ages
03:27.21 Twingy when you said maxim I was reminded of the maxim231 rs232 ttl cmos converter
03:27.22 ``Erik *smirk* and the fire alarm hasn't gone off in ages, go figure :D
03:27.26 starseeker iday: Yeah, that's a general problem with open source CAS
03:27.33 ``Erik heh
03:27.37 starseeker iday: Did you try the TeXmacs interface?
03:28.00 starseeker or wxmaxima? Those are probably the closest to tolerable
03:28.07 Twingy cept I'm using TI7404's now because I can get away with 5V instead of 7
03:28.27 iday starseeker: no - i saw something like that was available... but at the time i was trying to use it for a class, and no time to futz with it
03:28.33 starseeker Ah.
03:28.45 iday starseeker: i tried wxmaxima the other day - argh
03:28.54 starseeker Not what you need eh?
03:29.10 Twingy btw Erik I finally got my DB-III
03:29.18 iday starseeker: i
03:29.32 starseeker iday: Doing something like Mathematica's interactive 2D input typesetting interface is probably the way to go in the long term, but it's a very difficult problem.
03:29.38 iday starseeker: am just picky about interfaces (and I keep tapping the frikkin return key)
03:29.45 iday yes
03:29.59 starseeker iday: That's why I am interested in McCLIM and the Stix fonts, for example
03:30.03 starseeker they are critical pieces
03:30.04 iday however - lyx doesn't do too bad
03:30.12 starseeker for one liners it's ok
03:30.25 ``Erik w00t, how's gaytech going?
03:30.31 iday haha
03:30.48 iday twingy looked a bit stressed today... maybe that was the soot
03:31.10 Twingy ``Erik, very difficult
03:31.14 ``Erik one of the things that really endeared latex to me was that the layout was very divorced from the creative cycle
03:31.19 starseeker There's an McCLIM app called GSharp that has done amazing work with interactive music typesetting using McCLIM, and I think many of those pieces will be helpful someday in a proper math GUI. But there are so many things to fix before the GUI... :-(
03:31.30 iday ``Erik: of course
03:31.32 ``Erik not even worth worrying about layout, just do the fucking content...
03:31.54 iday only until you need to embed a graphic. and then things get a bit painful
03:31.57 starseeker iday: Actually, if you don't need interactive typesetting I recommend Emaxima
03:31.58 ``Erik opposed to 'word', where it's easy to distract yourself be tweaking visual elements instead of being productive...
03:32.02 ``Erik eps ftw
03:32.12 iday starseeker: have to take a look at it
03:32.26 ``Erik encapsulated postscript
03:32.37 iday or pgf - program your figures
03:32.50 starseeker Brain child of Jay Belanger
03:32.51 ``Erik imagemagick's "convert" can make 'em, and they just 'work' if you output to ps (then use ps2pdf or something)
03:32.57 iday pdflatex uses pdf figures as well
03:33.08 starseeker Emaxima rocks - I helped with some of the early debugging on it
03:33.44 ``Erik aaaanyways, it seems to me that toys like LyX kinda defeat one of the biggest advantages :D
03:33.55 ``Erik that was the reason for my tangent
03:34.10 iday you don't have to do any "layout" in lyx...
03:34.16 starseeker ``Erik: Lyx is actually an interesting compromise between hiding syntax details of markup and lack of interactive WYSIWYG behavor
03:34.34 starseeker most of the problem with users of Lyx is they expect WYSIWYG
03:34.42 iday saves some \begin{} and \end{} typing (but not all of it)
03:34.56 iday WYSIWYM!
03:35.07 ``Erik erm, you don't have vim macros for automatic teTeX output?
03:35.14 ``Erik or, uh, emacs macros?
03:35.37 iday i like the pretty equation visualization ;-)
03:35.57 starseeker ``Erik: Well, we have AucTeX but for a lot of students who don't go that deep into the typesetting side of things Lyx is a good compromise
03:36.10 ``Erik I'm often tempted to write a scheme<->tex(math mode) translator
03:36.15 ``Erik I mean, they're almsot identical
03:36.25 iday ``Erik: you
03:36.31 iday 're hilarious sometimes,
03:36.34 starseeker Lyx and TeXmacs have the best equation input setups I've ever used - Lyx has the best dialog I've ever used, and TeXmacs keybindings are extremely smooth once you know them
03:36.35 ``Erik :d
03:36.36 ``Erik :D
03:36.49 ``Erik I also want to write a sexp<->xml translator
03:36.59 starseeker ``Erik: cl-typesetting would like you :-)
03:37.15 Twingy ``Erik, did you see crayon physics?
03:37.26 ``Erik xml is just an obscenely ugly and verbose form of a subset of sexp
03:37.32 ``Erik no? crayon physics? O.o
03:37.43 ``Erik same nature as, um, britney speares doing semiconductor physics?
03:37.48 iday Twingy: i sent it to brlcad earlier
03:37.52 iday he may not have shared
03:38.21 brlcad hm, who what?
03:38.25 starseeker iday: Ahem - anyway, back to cad :-)
03:38.28 ``Erik I think first I'll build yet another 74 based ripple adder
03:38.29 brlcad i'm innocent
03:38.33 brlcad she said she was 19
03:38.35 ``Erik THEN try to tie the simm to the pic
03:38.43 iday brlcad: jeez
03:38.57 brlcad okay 18
03:39.00 iday alright - since neural nets are off topic here, back to work
03:39.02 ``Erik you're 30 now, quit hitting on the freshmen at the frat parties, step up to the sophmores
03:39.05 ``Erik *cough* O:-)
03:39.22 starseeker brlcad: There's a topic - can neural nets be applied to CAD? ;-)
03:39.42 brlcad thought 'bout it some
03:40.00 ``Erik starseeker: look at src/gtools/beset... genetic algo's applied to cad...
03:40.19 starseeker iday: So, you're on topic after all ;-)
03:40.33 brlcad mebbie but the dimensionality of most of the problems is a bitch for a nn, but you could use a nn as part of some bigger solution
03:40.48 ``Erik evolving a good nn via a ga... etc
03:41.01 iday well, i'll be using a EA to grow NN for my project this semester
03:41.09 iday hopefully to implement target tracking
03:41.25 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r330 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: when we are quiting, don't complain about not having network command handlers when the network itself is not valid.
03:41.29 brlcad bpoole's beset GA showed quite a bit of feasibility of the approach for some problems
03:41.32 ``Erik see, more of that 'better bullet' shit, I can't get behind that :(
03:41.54 brlcad ``Erik: but you can get in front of them? :)
03:41.55 iday um - not for bullets, for information
03:42.02 iday surveillance
03:42.10 iday jeez
03:42.32 ``Erik I have no problem keeping kids from getting dead, but I get squeemish at the notion of getting kids dead...
03:42.41 brlcad ~bzfrag ``Erik
03:42.42 ibot ACTION skewers ``Erik with a super bullet
03:42.44 iday i really wouln't work on the better bullet approach either (although, many good things can be used in nefarious ways)
03:43.16 starseeker It's all tools in the end - in a battlefield situation, the idea is to keep at it until someone can't continue
03:43.23 rdv brlcad: i'm interested in what adding IBMR to the software would entail. i realize it's difficult to estimate off the top of one's head
03:43.23 ``Erik yeah, my threshhold for observing nefarious misuse has shifted in the last, ohhhh, 6, almost 7 years
03:43.45 brlcad rdv: that's way too open-ended :)
03:44.36 starseeker ``Erik: there's this, too - if you don't know what you might find being shot at someone someday, it's harder to design around it
03:44.43 brlcad what do you mean by it? something with a gui that lets you pick points in multiple views? something programmatic? automatic/manual shape/edge/feature detection? console/command driven?
03:45.17 rdv well for a first phase, maybe rectangular textures by picking 4 points on each of 2 pictures
03:45.42 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r331 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: throttle the inital channel joins, do them one at a time, and only after we have the MOTD, and a valid nick
03:46.00 ``Erik my observation is that if you give warmongering imbeciles a technology to defend against tomorrows bullets, they'll figure out how to field those imagined bullets.
03:47.25 ``Erik albert einsteins quote, um, about not knowing what weapons ww3 will be fought with, but ww4 being fought with sticks and stones... :) strikes a chord with me
03:48.08 starseeker ``Erik: Given the weapons we already have, it's just a matter of degree at this point.
03:48.35 ``Erik the weapons are just a tool, unfortunately... it's the lack of civilization
03:48.47 starseeker Correct
03:48.58 brlcad rdv: if someone was already familiar with the libs and interfaces and could dedicate time to it, I could see having something minimal like that in a few weeks .. that quickly expands to a few months though as you get to actual general use for making more than boxes and outlined shapes
03:49.15 ``Erik american aggresion inthe middle east has scared russia, who's arming up... so china gets scared and is arming up...it's a vicious feedback cycle
03:49.43 starseeker Lack of tools won't stop anybody - most of history's wars managed to kill lots of people with what were in essence extreme refinements of the club...
03:49.59 brlcad rdv: brl-cad already has a facilities for creating/manipulating/storeing/processing geometry, so most of the work would be focused on the actual gui and IBMR calcs
03:50.11 ``Erik and given the near obliteration experiences in teh last half century, ... I doubt modern politicians have the ability to behave in rational ways like their predecessors
03:50.34 starseeker Which underscores the need for everyone to vote in elections
03:50.49 ``Erik then throw in 'hot' areas of extremists getting "wmd's"... israel stealing nuke base and adopting a policy of "share the pain"... wtf
03:51.15 ``Erik if we don't become a space faring race awfully soon, we'll probably stop being a race.
03:51.30 ``Erik also; whiskey good *grunt*
03:51.41 brlcad get 'em!
03:51.46 ``Erik heh
03:52.13 ``Erik yeah, I'm scared of the world situation. the rapid degredation is horrifying. :)
03:52.30 starseeker There are so many good things that could come of that
03:52.59 ``Erik I think it's real, but misplaced... I think it smells more like "we're still badasses, we can beat the damn commies... again"
03:53.06 ``Erik opposed to real sustained advancement
03:53.10 brlcad c'est la vie, have fun and enjoy life while you have it
03:53.30 starseeker <snort> If we hadn't had the race for space, we would never have walked on the moon.
03:53.33 ``Erik china seems to be avoiding the critical flaw the ussr had
03:53.41 brlcad just/more likely to die on your way home (as you so flippingly found out already)
03:53.49 ``Erik heh
03:53.51 ``Erik well
03:53.55 starseeker If we have to make it a race/contest to overcome human nature, oh well - at least it's better than slugging it out
03:54.08 ``Erik I wasn't exactly driving home when I rolled the sports car :)
03:54.22 brlcad doesn't matter, it's still in the odds
03:54.45 starseeker arrgh - you rolled a sports car??
03:55.02 ``Erik yeah... but, y'know, if it takes me, it takes me... otherwise, I'll try to maximize the long term benefit of my activities as much as possible
03:55.32 ``Erik yeah, starseeker... bmw m3... hit two trees, flipped, went upside down across a road, hit a hill and two other trees, ended up on the side
03:55.46 ``Erik got lucky SO manytimes on that adventure
03:56.15 starseeker holy cow
03:56.16 ``Erik inches from a frame stop on the first tree which woulda killed me, arm happened to flop in during the roll so I got to keep it, etc...
03:56.24 ``Erik megajoules.
03:56.29 ``Erik I computed it before I went to court
03:57.01 starseeker So you're taking the bus nowadays?
03:57.08 ``Erik heh, no
03:57.36 ``Erik insurance company totally paid everything off, and I was so damn impressed at how I stepepd out that I went and bought another m3
03:57.47 ``Erik haven't rolled this one yet ;)
03:58.14 ``Erik not an issue, I never drive anywys :D
03:58.19 ``Erik gas is too damn expensive
03:58.24 starseeker Heh
03:58.30 starseeker Yeah, that's for sure
03:59.12 ``Erik brlcad and iday can attest... I make sure to keep the rear seats disassembled and leave my car key in the office when going to lunch :D
04:00.04 ``Erik I'm tempted to junk my current truck and buy another and use that as my daily driver
04:00.10 ``Erik hey, brlcad, wanna buy a truck? :D
04:00.43 brlcad http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/07/13/the_six_most_feared_but_least_likely_causes_of_death.htm
04:01.19 ``Erik heh
04:01.38 ``Erik <-- has been rating auto accident and alcohol as his top two probably
04:02.15 brlcad eh.. how about adding physical inactivity too :)
04:02.24 brlcad you *ever* hit the apg gym? :)
04:02.30 ``Erik not the apg one
04:02.38 ``Erik I have one about 2 minutes walk from my house
04:02.51 brlcad which you of course walk to every day :)
04:02.58 ``Erik heh, hell no
04:03.04 brlcad after a couple beers
04:03.23 ``Erik but, uh, once in a while... and I do distance walks once in a while...
04:03.37 ``Erik stairs all the time (there is no bathroom on the 'main' floor of my house)
04:03.45 starseeker brlcad: It sounds like you can use ``Erik to do some real world testing of vehicle related ballistic modeling ;-)
04:03.48 ``Erik pushups and sittups once in a while...
04:04.06 ``Erik and my diet has gotten a lot better the last couple years, I mena, I went from 180 to 150
04:04.23 ``Erik 'nut' was helpful in that
04:05.13 ``Erik heh
04:05.16 starseeker hehe
04:05.24 starseeker the truck would lose
04:05.33 brlcad banking on them sorting out those problems in about 30 years
04:06.15 ``Erik my parents have neither... my dad has high cholesterol, and so do I... but given the fluctuation on medical opinion of cholesterol... *shrug* probably aint' an issue
04:06.23 starseeker ``Erik: just kidding around. That's one heck of a crash to have survived - you're very lucky
04:06.42 ``Erik shit, when my dad went on an extreme low cholesterol diet, his readings went UP
04:07.05 ``Erik starseeker: my cam was fucked up... but... http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/
04:07.35 ``Erik my community gym is 24/7...I have a proxy card :)
04:07.47 starseeker Wow - actually in better shape than I would have expected
04:08.18 ``Erik was a damn good car, and I got damn lucky
04:08.25 starseeker I see why you got another one
04:08.53 brlcad you should have put a "Designed for Windows XP" sticker on it
04:08.56 ``Erik amusingly enough
04:09.13 ``Erik after I killed the blue one, I bought one with "performance modifications"
04:09.18 ``Erik and my insurance went down a lot
04:09.36 starseeker That's some funky math
04:09.46 ``Erik that was about when I turned 30
04:09.48 ``Erik ...
04:10.13 starseeker Oh, OK. Age does have a lot to do with it
04:11.01 ``Erik was weird, I paid like $1005 fora 6mo, wrecked... bought a newer fancier version... got a letter saying my rate had increased mor ethan 15% and here's my refund
04:11.09 ``Erik and the nextcycle was like $835 or something
04:13.53 ``Erik <PROTECTED>
04:14.01 ``Erik if you have the opportunity to toe up against a tree
04:14.07 ``Erik politely pass on that
04:14.18 ``Erik trees're damn tough
04:14.27 starseeker Good advice
04:24.37 ``Erik indeed
04:24.44 ``Erik unlike some punkassed bitch contractors
04:24.59 ``Erik I'll get in trouble if I don't "punch the clock" at the right time
04:26.12 brlcad there's no clock to punch if you just don't stop coding
04:28.35 ``Erik IT walks circuits in the morning and evening.
04:29.05 ``Erik if I cooked an overnight crunch, Iwouldn't be credited the overnight hours, as I hadn't filled out the proper paperwork
04:30.50 brlcad could go for a brisk midnight walk :)
04:31.29 ``Erik the 'greenway' here is closed after dark,a nd old fuckers will call the cops on you :(
04:33.13 *** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:46.50 brlcad damn, burnt the coffee a little
04:47.21 brlcad mm.. and beowulf comes out today as well as love in the time of cholera
04:58.39 ``Erik beowulf... the movie?
04:58.48 ``Erik cuz, uh, ya MIGHT be a LITTLe behind for the book
04:59.51 ``Erik when I lived in memphis, I was maybe 5-6 minutes walk from the library, and had started getting old enough to have an appreciation for history
05:00.11 ``Erik so the first book I checked out was the oldest (source) book they had... beowulf...
05:00.23 ``Erik and next was 'the prince'
05:00.26 ``Erik then I moved :/
05:01.35 ``Erik project gutenburg seems promising, but at the computer, I keep dorking around instead of reading :(
06:03.02 brlcad yeah, the movie
06:03.42 brlcad i read the book too, hail hrothgar!
06:03.54 brlcad but the movie has angelina hawtness
06:04.24 brlcad the screenplay is probably no better than tomb raider, but still fun
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06:58.56 CIA-27 libirc: 03brlcad * r333 10/trunk/libirc/ (11 files in 6 dirs): s/receve/receive/g
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09:39.45 Defcon happy hacking today
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10:59.29 *** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
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15:43.34 brlcad Defcon: heh, thx ;)
15:45.05 Defcon haha :)
15:45.10 Defcon was like 6 hours ago :)
15:45.22 Defcon my hacking day is over in 15 minutes
15:45.22 Defcon :)
15:47.50 Defcon :)
15:47.51 Defcon good :)
15:48.00 Defcon did u have a productive day?
15:48.20 brlcad a productive night
15:48.24 brlcad it's now 10am :)
15:48.25 Defcon :D
15:48.33 brlcad been going since 9am yesterday
15:48.44 Defcon 25hours straight.. :)
15:49.45 Defcon my SQL Server is being a bitch :@
15:57.05 CIA-27 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: fail gracefully when xpush is called with a primitive, instead of crashing
15:57.45 Defcon ..
15:57.53 Defcon is that a good sign?
15:59.04 brlcad (user visible)
15:59.20 ``Erik well
15:59.33 ``Erik if you have a moment, mind making sure I didn't change valid semantis?
15:59.35 ``Erik semantics
16:00.01 brlcad after my phonecon, sure
16:00.47 ``Erik aight, I don't wanna chew on NEWS if my 'fix' breaks stuff... :D (staying in (and/or going home) for lunch?)
16:01.34 Defcon cya next week
16:01.38 Defcon <== going home
18:59.17 yukonbob nice toenail polish
18:59.52 yukonbob what do you call that colour?
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20:01.10 ManicMechE quick question
20:01.49 ManicMechE I just installed BRL-CAD 7.10.on my Mac
20:02.00 ManicMechE 7.10.4
20:02.17 ManicMechE and I'm not sure where to find anything that it installed
20:02.57 ManicMechE not in the applications folder
20:03.04 ManicMechE not in the root directory
20:03.13 ManicMechE not in my home directory
20:08.55 ``Erik hum, mebbe look for /usr/brlcad ?
20:09.39 brlcad ManicMechE: you'll need to run X11 (in Utilities folder), then run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
20:09.48 brlcad in the xterm that opens up
20:09.55 brlcad alas we're still tied to X11 on the mac
20:10.40 ManicMechE I found it on my own, but it seems angry
20:10.43 ``Erik 30 hours now?
20:11.08 ManicMechE Break on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTI
20:11.08 ManicMechE NALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
20:12.42 ManicMechE (sorry if I'm a bit of a noob, I've been teaching myself how to use the command line and just getting into oss and such)
20:14.28 brlcad ManicMechE: did it actually say that?
20:14.42 brlcad that's the first I'ver heard of that..
20:15.01 brlcad you can run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f and it won't detach
20:15.23 ManicMechE yep
20:18.19 ManicMechE hey, now I'm getting somewhere
20:18.34 ManicMechE brlcad: thanks, I'll let you know if I have anymore questions
20:27.06 brlcad ManicMechE: no problem, someones always here ;)
20:27.30 brlcad ``Erik: and I entirely intend to stop at the gym on the way home for a couple hours
20:38.21 prasad1 ah gym
20:38.34 prasad1 lost all interest after i left
20:38.37 prasad1 :(
20:39.19 iday prasad1!!! :-) How'
20:39.21 iday s it going?
20:39.41 iday iday == jlo
20:39.49 ``Erik heh, so you're punchdrunk and goofy... and you'll make sure your muscles are worn down and you're short on bloodsugar and energy? when're you driving, I wanna make sure I'm not ont he road at the same time O.o :D
20:39.53 iday if you forgot
20:40.12 dtidrow_work heh
20:40.16 ``Erik hennifer hopez
20:40.19 iday brlcad is crazy... but we all know that
20:40.25 iday what-eva ``Erik
20:40.57 iday can we get over the j-lo thing?
20:41.04 prasad1 jlo!
20:41.07 prasad1 sup man
20:41.09 ``Erik that southpark had some awesome gags :D
20:41.18 iday prasad1: sup
20:41.26 prasad1 wmrd?
20:41.30 iday vtd
20:41.33 prasad1 ahso
20:41.34 iday :-)
20:41.35 prasad1 cool cool
20:41.46 prasad1 hows nettie and the lil tyke
20:41.59 iday working on NN and vision based target tracking with GA
20:42.19 prasad1 good stuff
20:42.51 brlcad hm, prasad1 where you still here before or after the benchpress competition?
20:43.05 prasad1 after
20:43.13 brlcad okay, thought so
20:43.34 brlcad yeah, you were here after I'd started back up rowing
20:43.45 brlcad whining about going because you were trying to look good for her
20:43.56 prasad1 wahahah
20:44.06 prasad1 there's a gym in my bldg
20:44.12 prasad1 i should step it up
20:44.18 prasad1 need motivation :(
20:44.44 brlcad look at your belly
20:44.49 brlcad and skinny arms
20:44.52 brlcad that's ll the motivation I need
20:45.11 prasad1 lol
20:45.12 prasad1 indeed
20:46.15 prasad1 is the delicate flower still around?
20:46.17 prasad1 heh
20:46.40 brlcad no, you left remember
20:47.06 brlcad actually she's up working for Mr. T now
20:47.50 prasad1 really
20:48.01 prasad1 that's good (right?)
20:48.59 brlcad she seems to enjoy it
20:49.11 brlcad and she "won" it, so yeah, it's good
20:49.54 prasad1 orly?
20:49.55 prasad1 heh
20:51.21 ``Erik http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Any-Key-or-Any-Other-Key.aspx
20:52.31 iday :-)
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21:16.45 ManicMechE ok, so it was working great for a little while, now when I try to type at the mged prompt, it........does weird stuff
21:17.51 ManicMechE and after killing it and starting again a couple times, it is miraculously fixed?
21:18.08 ManicMechE methinks maybe it's not getting along with Leopard
21:20.06 brlcad hrm, if you can repeat or quantify what you mean..
21:20.26 brlcad I've not seen any issues on Mac with the latest yet except for remote X11
21:20.59 ManicMechE I switched away in spaces for a moment
21:21.12 ManicMechE when I switched back, both Terminal and the X11 windows were gone
21:21.42 ManicMechE when I got them back (just fiddling around), trying to type at the mged prompt caused it to behave erratically
21:21.48 ManicMechE such as the prompt disappearing
21:21.54 ManicMechE it tabbing over
21:22.11 ManicMechE it deleting bits of what was already there
21:22.18 ManicMechE I had to kill it through the gui
21:22.33 ManicMechE I started it again
21:22.38 ManicMechE same business
21:22.41 ManicMechE killed it again
21:22.43 ManicMechE started again
21:22.46 ManicMechE and now it works fine
21:25.27 brlcad oh, I read about that with Spaces
21:26.12 brlcad on the Tk mailing list, it's a bug in X11 fixed in latest sources but not in 10.5 yet
21:26.24 brlcad affecting windows and input control
21:26.37 ManicMechE I suspected as much
21:26.57 ManicMechE moving x11 windows across spaces has already proven to be bad news for me
21:27.11 brlcad there's actually one guy at Apple that was dedicated to work on the problem, he was asking for help from X11 devs
21:27.36 brlcad apparently a really hard set of bugs
21:28.56 ManicMechE I would imagine
22:03.35 *** part/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
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23:16.41 CIA-27 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r335 10/trunk/libirc/ (12 files in 7 dirs): start a static lib to consolidate the IRC bot logic into a more manageable class.

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