| 00:12.06 | ``Erik | "I seek not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions" ... damn brilliant |
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| 06:35.03 | louipc | heck the what? |
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| 14:16.03 | ``Erik | blargh. |
| 14:17.45 | ``Erik | too many people parked infront of the building :( I wanted to just pull in sideways instead of following the lines |
| 14:20.54 | Defcon | :) |
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| 20:37.11 | illethal | Hello |
| 20:49.35 | yukonbob | hello, illethal |
| 20:54.41 | illethal | I just installed BRL-CAD, and I'm trying to make something. |
| 20:54.43 | illethal | But failing. |
| 20:54.56 | illethal | Any beginners information? |
| 20:56.49 | yukonbob | there are documents, yes -- check out... (/me looks) |
| 20:57.19 | illethal | I'm new to CAD but not too new to 3D. |
| 20:59.19 | yukonbob | http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation |
| 20:59.27 | yukonbob | you'll want the MGED quick ref. |
| 21:00.03 | illethal | Thanks. |
| 21:00.18 | illethal | I was playing with MGED and it kept telling me that I had no database selected. |
| 21:01.44 | yukonbob | you need to open or create a database... |
| 21:02.21 | yukonbob | everything is stored in a db -- and all saving happens "in realtime", so changes are written to the db as they are changed... |
| 21:02.40 | illethal | ooh. |
| 21:03.34 | yukonbob | also, grab http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Image:Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 21:03.49 | illethal | Thanks. |
| 21:03.54 | illethal | Muchly appreciated. |
| 21:04.02 | illethal | How long have you been using BRL-CAD? |
| 21:04.15 | yukonbob | np |
| 21:04.52 | yukonbob | my usage... ~6mos maybe... |
| 21:04.52 | yukonbob | +/- |
| 21:05.12 | yukonbob | not new to 3D or CSG -- worked with POVRay over time |
| 21:05.23 | illethal | Damn |
| 21:05.35 | illethal | POVRay was my first 3D prog, I never could figure out how to use it. |
| 21:06.06 | yukonbob | heh -- ya -- not interactive, lots of typing and imagination required. |
| 21:06.30 | illethal | I've seen some pretty awesome stuff done with it. |
| 21:06.39 | illethal | That I couldn't even do with Maya lol. |
| 21:07.58 | yukonbob | that tri-fold lists all the primitives available to you, and the commands you're likely to need/want. the longer doc (intro to mged) is a tutorial that steps you through building some models... a good read. |
| 21:08.59 | illethal | But I have to have a database first, to do anything right? |
| 21:09.06 | illethal | How do I get one? |
| 21:10.44 | yukonbob | you can "opendb foo.g" from w/i mged, or run "mged foo.g" when you're launching mged. |
| 21:10.59 | yukonbob | .g is the typical extension for the databases --- |
| 21:11.20 | illethal | Lol this is like shell scripting |
| 21:11.51 | yukonbob | or you can File->Open |
| 21:11.59 | yukonbob | up to you... |
| 21:12.05 | illethal | Ooh thanks a lot |
| 21:12.07 | illethal | Now I can do stuff. |
| 21:13.20 | illethal | So if I create something from mged how do I see it from archer? |
| 21:13.24 | illethal | Sorry for all these questions lol |
| 21:13.41 | illethal | Ahh. |
| 21:13.51 | illethal | How do I render what I've created? |
| 21:14.05 | yukonbob | iiuc, archer is just another (kind-of next gen) editor like mged is though... |
| 21:14.20 | yukonbob | "e" |
| 21:14.25 | illethal | Yeah it has a commandline |
| 21:14.27 | yukonbob | oh |
| 21:14.40 | yukonbob | no -- e will display wireframe |
| 21:15.08 | yukonbob | File-Raytrace, or learn the 'rt' command-line tool |
| 21:15.18 | yukonbob | *File->Raytrace |
| 21:15.25 | illethal | omg |
| 21:15.31 | illethal | brl-cad is so cool. |
| 21:17.43 | illethal | What kind of geometry is this? |
| 21:17.44 | illethal | Polygons? |
| 21:17.54 | yukonbob | Tcl (programming language) is available to you for scripting/extending your work -- mged is written in tcl/tk, and provides the full power of the Tcl programming lang (http://www.tcl.tk) |
| 21:17.59 | yukonbob | CSG |
| 21:18.03 | yukonbob | constructive solid geometry |
| 21:20.59 | illethal | Cool stuff. |
| 21:22.13 | illethal | Can I see some stuff that you've done with brl cad? |
| 21:23.46 | yukonbob | indeed -- an now I gotta fly :) -- READ THE DOCS!! You'll thank me later -- BRL-CAD may seem archaic in some respects, but I bet you'll see that it was written by obviously intelligent people, and that once you learn a few of it's ways/commands, etc, you'll start being able to exploit it's power... if you're a Tcl programmer, you'll be able to use that, if you're a C programmer, BRL-CAD offers advanced libraries to tap into... |
| 21:24.36 | illethal | Lol I'm an HTML programmer =P |
| 21:24.41 | illethal | Thanks a lot. Take care. |
| 21:24.49 | yukonbob | well, then read the docs and just tinker... |
| 21:24.58 | yukonbob | still a powerful system :) |
| 21:25.08 | illethal | Seems badass. |
| 21:29.59 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlog |
| 21:30.12 | illethal | In my graphics window |
| 21:30.22 | illethal | I pressed some f8 buttons and ctrl+y |
| 21:30.28 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png |
| 21:30.31 | illethal | Now it's spinning on it's y axis, how do I get it to stop? lol |
| 21:30.35 | yukonbob | 0 |
| 21:30.40 | illethal | Thanks |
| 21:31.14 | illethal | That's a pretty cool trick |
| 21:31.19 | illethal | How can I dolly around my model? |
| 21:31.24 | illethal | To look at it, is that possible? |
| 21:31.26 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png |
| 21:31.38 | yukonbob | x, y, z in the display window will rotate it |
| 21:31.53 | yukonbob | and 0 to stop, but you know that now :) |
| 21:32.05 | illethal | Ooh, this is cool. |
| 21:32.06 | yukonbob | X Y Z to move in other direction... |
| 21:32.19 | illethal | I have this yellow menu on the left. |
| 21:32.29 | illethal | But I can't click on 'em. |
| 21:32.29 | yukonbob | multiple X (or x, y, z etc) to speed up rotation |
| 21:33.31 | illethal | Thanks, awesome. |
| 21:33.41 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/housecomp.png |
| 21:33.51 | illethal | Nice renders |
| 21:34.08 | yukonbob | that's rt |
| 21:34.10 | illethal | That's like impossible for me to even imagine making. |
| 21:34.16 | illethal | In BRL-CAD. |
| 21:35.15 | yukonbob | anyway -- I'm really off -- welcome to BRL-CAD -- brlcad and ``Erik are the two primary devs (that I know) hang out here and are both friendly and helpful. |
| 21:35.39 | illethal | Thanks a lot, I'm gonna get into this. |
| 21:35.40 | illethal | See ya! |
| 21:38.42 | dtidrow_work | illethal: did you see some of the screenshots on the brl-cad website? |
| 21:39.43 | illethal | Nope |
| 21:39.53 | illethal | I did see Mike Muuss modelling an Abrams though. |
| 21:40.46 | illethal | I found it from Wiki. |
| 21:40.47 | dtidrow_work | heh, way back when... |
| 21:40.59 | dtidrow_work | http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 21:41.18 | illethal | That's some fantastic ray tracing right there. |
| 21:41.30 | dtidrow_work | yeah - that Stryker model is intense |
| 21:41.39 | illethal | Is that the actual prototype? |
| 21:41.53 | dtidrow_work | probably |
| 21:42.04 | illethal | Just makes me want to master this even more. |
| 21:42.05 | dtidrow_work | think they have fielded them to Iraq now |
| 21:42.14 | illethal | Yeah I see them on the military channel all the time. |
| 21:42.25 | dtidrow_work | that model probably has all the internal details as well |
| 21:42.51 | illethal | Does that much geometry use up very much ram with BRL-CAD? |
| 21:43.09 | dtidrow_work | one of the main things that brl-cad is used for is vulnerability analysis, so they need to have all the internal details there |
| 21:43.27 | illethal | Like to weaponery? |
| 21:43.38 | illethal | Do you guys work for the government? |
| 21:43.44 | illethal | Cause that's what I want to do. |
| 21:44.00 | dtidrow_work | probably, but remember that most of the parts are CSG - cylinders, spheres, plates, etc. |
| 21:44.42 | dtidrow_work | and unions/intersections thereof, so the storage requirements are probably different than if you used polys for everything |
| 21:45.13 | dtidrow_work | well, some of the people here work for the gov't |
| 21:45.25 | illethal | The most hardcore geometry I've ever used is NURBS. |
| 21:45.31 | illethal | So I'm pretty noob to this. |
| 21:45.44 | dtidrow_work | though I think brlcad is actually a contractor |
| 21:46.04 | dtidrow_work | iirc, they have a nurbs model in brl-cad somewhere |
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| 21:47.31 | illethal | http://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/apc/apcrender6.jpg |
| 21:47.40 | illethal | This is one of my models. |
| 21:47.53 | illethal | made in Maya though, super easy compared to this. |
| 21:48.45 | dtidrow_work | yeah, the modeling package for brl-cad could use some work :-) |
| 21:48.45 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/fzPoBS72.html <----- a mite |
| 21:49.34 | IriX64 | sorry to have intruded |
| 21:50.14 | illethal | What's this? |
| 21:51.20 | illethal | Hey. |
| 21:51.26 | dtidrow_work | heh, typical irc channel |
| 21:51.36 | dtidrow_work | people jump in the middle ;-) |
| 21:51.37 | illethal | I pressed f8 I think, and I got this yellow menu on the side. |
| 21:51.40 | illethal | How do I use it? |
| 21:51.43 | illethal | in Mged. |
| 21:51.48 | illethal | SOL EDIT. |
| 21:52.14 | illethal | http://micah.noobgrinder.com/misc/mged.jpg |
| 21:52.18 | dtidrow_work | illethal: I'm as much of a noob at mged as you :-\ |
| 21:52.58 | illethal | Oh noes! |
| 21:53.04 | illethal | It seems so cool though |
| 21:53.21 | dtidrow_work | day after thanksgiving is always a bit dead... |
| 21:53.34 | illethal | Oh yeah happy belated thanksgiving |
| 21:54.26 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/R57Eye19.html <---- nother, and whatd you see :) |
| 22:19.23 | illethal | Does anyone here use Linux? |
| 22:23.36 | dtidrow_work | several of the people here do |
| 22:23.49 | dtidrow_work | either that or some BSD variant |
| 22:24.04 | illethal | Do you know if BRL-CAD is in repositories and stuff? |
| 22:24.11 | illethal | If I can like get it with aptitude. |
| 22:24.20 | illethal | I'm on Windows right now |
| 22:24.38 | dtidrow_work | dunno about that, but it's easy to d/l the cvs version and compile |
| 22:25.17 | dtidrow_work | I think it's pretty much self-contained, but not entirely sure about that |
| 22:26.15 | illethal | Okay thanks. |
| 22:26.29 | illethal | So this is what the government uses to engineer all their weapons systems and tanks and stuff? |
| 22:27.27 | dtidrow_work | well, that's probably overstating things |
| 22:27.52 | illethal | Most of the tanks and weapons systems? =P |
| 22:28.30 | dtidrow_work | like I said, they do use it to analyze how vehicles respond to getting hit with various weapons |
| 22:28.52 | dtidrow_work | though brlcad can talk more about what all it's being used for |
| 22:29.09 | illethal | Cool. |
| 22:29.19 | illethal | I'd have to be a math genius to do that job though |
| 22:29.21 | illethal | Which I am not. |
| 22:30.36 | illethal | I'll be back later. |
| 22:30.43 | louipc | illethal: yeah I think there's a debian package |
| 22:31.03 | louipc | I'm on linux too, archlinux though |
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| 23:02.27 | illethal | Archlinux is awesome |
| 23:03.26 | louipc | hellyea |
| 23:03.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:03.47 | louipc | illethal: you can get brl-cad from AUR |
| 23:03.47 | illethal | Good day Erik. |
| 23:03.51 | ``Erik | 'sup? |
| 23:04.05 | illethal | Just got Mged, it's pretty cool. |
| 23:04.11 | illethal | Mega noob here =D |
| 23:04.30 | louipc | ``Erik is all about fbsd, he keeps making snide remarks about leewnooks or however he says it :P |
| 23:04.44 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:04.47 | illethal | =( |
| 23:05.09 | ``Erik | I was putting together a make_deb.sh script, I dont' remember if I finished it or not |
| 23:05.25 | illethal | For what? |
| 23:05.33 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD |
| 23:05.53 | illethal | Cool. |
| 23:06.02 | ``Erik | it's in like misc/ or something if you wanna poke at it |
| 23:06.27 | illethal | I'm on Windows right now. |
| 23:06.33 | ``Erik | wait, the script is in sh/, the debian dir is in misc/ |
| 23:06.49 | illethal | brlcad.org/misc? |
| 23:07.00 | ``Erik | um, misc/ in the source tarball |
| 23:07.34 | illethal | brb food. |
| 23:07.35 | louipc | hmm I guess I could make an archlinux package just from a self-contained script... it's kind of odd to circumvent using the standard tools though |
| 23:07.43 | illethal | I use Ubuntu. |
| 23:07.49 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh?revision=1.8&view=markup |
| 23:08.05 | illethal | Man you guys are leet. |
| 23:08.16 | louipc | ? |
| 23:08.21 | illethal | Elite. |
| 23:08.38 | louipc | how's that? |
| 23:08.48 | illethal | Shell scripting for Linux. |
| 23:09.01 | louipc | shell scripting isn't leet |
| 23:09.11 | ``Erik | of course, the fbsd port 'just works', no special steps O:-) |
| 23:09.17 | louipc | assembly language is elite :D |
| 23:09.23 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:09.25 | illethal | Yeah |
| 23:09.28 | illethal | Asm is hard. |
| 23:09.30 | ``Erik | which assembly language? |
| 23:09.39 | illethal | I've used masm. |
| 23:09.44 | ``Erik | x86 asm is fugly, mips r2k is damn sexy |
| 23:10.00 | illethal | How old are you guys? |
| 23:10.06 | ``Erik | pdp and vax assembly was pretty cool |
| 23:10.13 | illethal | If you don't mind me asking. |
| 23:10.18 | ``Erik | <-- cut his teeth on 6502 asm |
| 23:10.25 | louipc | 24 |
| 23:10.26 | illethal | Haha |
| 23:10.37 | illethal | I'm 17. |
| 23:10.48 | louipc | cool |
| 23:11.00 | ``Erik | damn I'm old :( |
| 23:11.06 | illethal | Haha |
| 23:11.14 | illethal | You've probably been doing 3D since before I was born? |
| 23:11.45 | ``Erik | not really, I kinda poked at voxel stuff in the later 80's |
| 23:11.58 | illethal | Yeah that's before me. |
| 23:12.02 | ``Erik | but I didn't get into 3d shtuff until about 10 years ago |
| 23:12.06 | illethal | Ahh. |
| 23:12.18 | illethal | I started 3D stuff when I was 13. |
| 23:12.21 | ``Erik | with opengl, raytracing, 2d raster (like doom/quake) |
| 23:12.30 | illethal | 1337. |
| 23:12.33 | illethal | =D |
| 23:12.44 | ``Erik | but I was doing kernel hacking before you were born, does that count? :) |
| 23:12.48 | illethal | I could learn a lot from you guys. |
| 23:13.00 | illethal | Kernel hacking, as in, modifying the kernel? |
| 23:13.05 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:13.08 | illethal | Awesome. |
| 23:13.12 | ``Erik | writing new chunks |
| 23:13.22 | illethal | We didn't get a computer until 1995. |
| 23:13.29 | ``Erik | and coding in a language lower level than assembly. |
| 23:13.37 | illethal | Machine language? |
| 23:13.42 | illethal | What language is that lol |
| 23:13.55 | ``Erik | yeah, 'monitor' mnemonics |
| 23:14.19 | illethal | Hardcore. |
| 23:14.20 | louipc | shoot I don't even think I got a computer till 95 |
| 23:14.38 | illethal | Haha |
| 23:14.45 | illethal | my brother got a computer in 1995. |
| 23:14.55 | illethal | I was only 5 so I just played the sims on it. |
| 23:14.56 | illethal | And doom. |
| 23:14.58 | illethal | Haha. |
| 23:15.41 | ``Erik | my first was a coleco adam (z80 cp/m machine) in like '83 |
| 23:15.58 | illethal | You could afford a computer? |
| 23:16.01 | illethal | Back then. |
| 23:16.28 | illethal | Oh it's a game console. |
| 23:16.29 | ``Erik | my dad could, heh |
| 23:16.31 | illethal | ? |
| 23:16.33 | ``Erik | no, it's a real computer |
| 23:16.39 | illethal | Like the C64? |
| 23:16.51 | illethal | I want to get a commodore =) |
| 23:16.54 | ``Erik | it could also run intellivision cartridges and had an expansion to take atari cartridges |
| 23:17.23 | ``Erik | um, kinda like a c64, but a z80 chip and ran cp/m... big uglier |
| 23:17.28 | illethal | Man I wish I was into computers when I was 3. |
| 23:17.41 | ``Erik | kinda closer to an old ibm type |
| 23:18.03 | illethal | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Coleco-adam.jpg |
| 23:18.09 | ``Erik | check out http://www.viceteam.org/ :D |
| 23:18.21 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 23:18.22 | illethal | That thing has tape? |
| 23:18.36 | louipc | I wish I was into guitars when I was 3 |
| 23:18.39 | ``Erik | uh huh |
| 23:18.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:18.59 | illethal | Ooh |
| 23:19.08 | illethal | I wouldn't have any progs for 8bit computers |
| 23:19.14 | illethal | But I've played with some music trackers. |
| 23:19.17 | ``Erik | http://www.cs.uakron.edu/~margush/465/01_images/adam-computer.jpg |
| 23:19.19 | illethal | Never could figure out how to get it to work. |
| 23:19.30 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: "and coding in a language lower level than assembly" - you were writing microcode? |
| 23:19.33 | illethal | I bet that thing was fun. |
| 23:19.59 | ``Erik | don: monitor mnems, it was a simple translator that immediately puts the 'compiled' bite into the bit of memory |
| 23:20.00 | dtidrow_work | that was out around the same time as the C64 |
| 23:20.09 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: ah |
| 23:20.10 | ``Erik | byte |
| 23:20.25 | illethal | Old schoolers =) |
| 23:20.33 | ``Erik | which was pretty cool, no 'compile' phase, etc |
| 23:20.46 | dtidrow_work | was thinking about being able to re-do the microcode on a 11-780 |
| 23:20.47 | illethal | What kind of programs did you make? |
| 23:21.25 | ``Erik | code up your nifty interrupt driven kernel 'wedge', then write the address into the interrupt vector table and boom, it's clicking... and when ya realize you screwed up, you power cycle the machine |
| 23:21.58 | ``Erik | 'simh's support for the 11/780 is getting fairly decent |
| 23:23.12 | illethal | You own brlcad.org? |
| 23:23.45 | ``Erik | no, brlcad does |
| 23:23.50 | illethal | Ah. |
| 23:23.54 | illethal | You just have access? |
| 23:24.02 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 23:24.04 | louipc | so is that a domain in his namesake or the software's? |
| 23:24.06 | illethal | Nevermind, stupid question =P |
| 23:24.14 | illethal | Haha. |
| 23:25.15 | ``Erik | it's his namesake, his parents were real asses. :D if he woulda been named 'bob', he woulda probably went to work for microsoft when they had that, uh, "product" :D |
| 23:25.45 | louipc | hahahah |
| 23:26.37 | illethal | ``Erik: Do you use mged? |
| 23:26.51 | ``Erik | when I have to... I usually use it in 'classic' mode (mged -c) |
| 23:27.11 | illethal | How do I change the shape of an object? |
| 23:29.32 | ``Erik | um, if you want to do something that'll still keep the object the same type, 'sed' it... (solid editor)... if you want to change the type, you have to delete it and create the new one |
| 23:29.55 | illethal | What do you mean by type? |
| 23:29.58 | illethal | Change the primative? |
| 23:30.00 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:30.11 | illethal | Okay how do I get out the sed? |
| 23:30.24 | ``Erik | um, 'accept' or 'reject', they're on the menu |
| 23:31.01 | illethal | o.O |
| 23:31.05 | ``Erik | ummm, go to http://www.brlcad.org and download 'princeples of effective modeling' (#3) |
| 23:31.21 | ``Erik | it's a tutorial for basic use of mged |
| 23:31.36 | illethal | okay |
| 23:31.42 | louipc | d/l #2 as well |
| 23:31.57 | ``Erik | the quick ref card is handy, as well |
| 23:32.18 | illethal | Checking out #3 as of the moment =) |
| 23:33.57 | illethal | That abrams model is freakin' incredible. |
| 23:34.12 | ``Erik | erm, which abrams model? |
| 23:34.29 | illethal | The green one showing the exterior. |
| 23:34.36 | illethal | Looks like a blinn I think |
| 23:35.46 | ``Erik | erm, ohh, page 3 |
| 23:36.09 | illethal | Yeah. |
| 23:36.13 | illethal | Can you model that well? |
| 23:40.05 | illethal | Hmmm |
| 23:45.31 | ``Erik | damnit |
| 23:45.52 | ``Erik | I installed 'sl' on my home box to fuck with people I give accounts to, but I think I'm the only one who gets stung by it :( |
