IRC log for #brlcad on 20071128

00:32.50 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
00:34.15 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
00:35.58 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875704.dip.t-dialin.net)
04:01.29 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX:
04:01.29 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: beef up the IRIX readme with addition details encountered with the problem I ran
04:01.29 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: into with (yet another stupid) libtool linkage problems/bugs. more
04:01.29 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: specifically, libtool was leaving out three librt object files that were in the
04:01.29 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: librt_nil.la convenience library. turns out they were getting prelinked into a
04:01.31 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: '.al' pre-link archive with just the .l nm symbol instead of .lo causing
04:01.33 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: subsequent linkage failures due to the symbols that get left out.
04:19.21 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make byteoffset and run-time byteorder detections necessary in order for Mac OS X universal binaries to actually work
05:27.29 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
05:40.53 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
06:18.49 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
06:19.10 *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130)
06:23.18 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
07:45.28 *** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
08:31.48 *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:44.28 *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-17-237.hr.hr.cox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
10:19.08 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877BF6.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:00.20 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
13:14.09 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
13:55.10 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: fix (type)(size_t)val hacks
13:56.28 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view_bot_faces.c: (type)(size_t)val hack to quell compiler warning...
14:12.07 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (53 files in 12 dirs): LOCAL->static, per machine.h deprecation list
15:40.27 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-089-111.pools.arcor-ip.net)
16:26.19 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877BF6.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:33.15 *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-93-235.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:47.23 *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
20:54.33 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
20:57.30 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h tie_define.h tie_kdtree.c tie_struct.h): merge of the "other" libtie...
21:07.12 CIA-28 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r350 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/ (5 files in 2 dirs): sources go in src
21:12.50 CIA-28 libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r352 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc8/stupidBot.vcproj: add url handler for RSS feed reading
21:15.11 ``Erik I'm classy! :D
21:15.41 yukonbob ~bzfrag boogers
21:15.42 ibot ACTION fries boogers with a laser
22:20.14 brlcad ``Erik: you committed a bunch of tclIndex changes again (that clobbered what they are supposed to contain)
22:21.00 brlcad looks like your indices were generated from a bad btclsh, didn't have incrTcl properly loaded/initialized so it wiped out things
22:21.26 brlcad the tclIndex files throughout src/tclscripts
22:36.53 yukonbob brlcad: you and I were having a discussion re: tclIndex's whether they are for runtime or buildtime, right?
22:37.43 brlcad mmm.. not ringing a specific bell :)
22:38.03 brlcad they are runtime araik
22:38.15 *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
22:39.44 louipc it needs some build stub for building
22:39.52 louipc in tclConfig.sh
22:43.41 *** join/#brlcad CIA-28 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
22:44.03 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (62 files in 62 dirs): Mods to use the new install tree.
22:44.46 brlcad louipc: ah, I do remember us talking about whether the .sh scripts for for run- or build-time
22:45.13 brlcad I actually have it using tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh now in our configure
22:46.05 brlcad I made that change just last night so that I could get the "actual" version number of what we're compiling against without resorting to a test app
22:46.13 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/treeInit.sh: Initial check-in (not finished, checking in for safety)
22:46.48 brlcad itclConfig.sh is a little more tricky, though, since we don't presently have/use incrTcl's build system
22:47.22 louipc hah so that's why it works!
22:48.38 louipc yeah I haven't had the initiative to completely learn about building tcl extensions to package them separately so I just let brl-cad take care of it
23:24.30 starseeker brlcad: I see the tcl and tk config scripts in configure - cool :-)
23:26.44 starseeker Is the plan also to use /usr/lib/itclConfig.sh?
23:26.44 *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
23:29.15 louipc talking about tcl stuff is taxing
23:29.22 starseeker indeed
23:30.17 brlcad starseeker: problem is that it's not guaranteed to be in that path
23:30.26 starseeker brlcad: Ah.
23:30.39 brlcad I need incrTcl's m4 file so that it searches for it like tcl.m4 searches for tclConfig.sh
23:31.21 brlcad or at least need to replicate the searching logic
23:31.23 starseeker Gentoo's install doesn't seem to include the m4 file. Hmm...
23:31.33 brlcad yeah, the m4 isn't installed
23:31.35 brlcad even for tcl
23:31.38 brlcad afaik
23:31.48 starseeker Argh.
23:32.08 brlcad we just need to try rolling incrtcl back to using the incrtcl build
23:32.43 brlcad the biggest problem with that is incrtcl's build is exceptionally weak and was outright broken on several important platforms last I tried
23:32.55 louipc gentoo uses some sed lines to change the specified build paths to point to some installed libstubs I think
23:32.55 brlcad quite a lot of short-term hacks in it
23:33.28 starseeker Ugh. I don't suppose they could be persuaded to fix that?
23:33.54 brlcad there's like two guys that work on incrtcl
23:34.11 starseeker Ah.
23:34.11 brlcad one's a tcl dev that fixes things only as much as he needs to
23:34.31 brlcad the other (the main author) is a prof at a uni that works on it really hard for two weeks, and then nothing for 6 months
23:34.57 starseeker So the build system isn't likely to be high on the priority list.
23:35.01 starseeker Joy
23:35.24 yukonbob well -- I'm sure if it's patched and presented to them it'd be considered... no?
23:35.41 louipc tcl, itcl, etc seem to have really odd build systems to me
23:35.55 brlcad well, I still have to do *something* since right now there's no way to have brl-cad compile incrTcl and have it use anything but the same matching version of tcl installed on the system
23:36.26 brlcad yukonbob: I've got patches on incrtcl's patches tracker that remained open for two years before :)
23:36.34 yukonbob :P
23:36.57 louipc :(
23:37.00 brlcad they finally got around to the tracker item after they'd finally ran into the problem themselves and had since changed the interface
23:37.51 starseeker brlcad: Would they consider giving you commit access?
23:38.55 louipc I bet there a few other ppl that would like commit access too
23:39.01 yukonbob re: incrtcl + tcl versions -- it could be nice, but perhaps we should consider that "it makes sense" since incrtcl is so intimate with tcl... so one builds incrtcl w/ tcl (as supplied by brl-cad distro), or supplies a working incrtcl installation (which implies a tcl installation that already works with it)
23:40.45 brlcad starseeker: hard to say -- I've had that discussion with the tcl guys several times over the years
23:40.58 brlcad probably possible if someone bugged him enough about it
23:41.21 brlcad bigger problem seemed to simply be that the tcl devs really (really *really*) don't like incrTcl
23:41.42 brlcad even though it is by far the most used OO extension
23:41.52 starseeker political?
23:41.57 brlcad to the extent that they developed their own, and nobody liked it
23:42.02 starseeker Ah.
23:42.05 brlcad so now they're redoing it again
23:42.10 brlcad but part of the tcl core
23:42.26 starseeker Is that one of the reasons for the 8.5 delay?
23:42.29 brlcad which was their biggest complaint with incrTcl .. that it hooked into tcl's core
23:43.18 brlcad yeah, stupid whiney devs, political issues and posturing
23:43.26 yukonbob well, I think that tcl core is providing facilities for OOP, that one can leverage, which are taken from best of incrtcl, snit, etc., for using as resources for future OOP interfaces -- a la X providing facilities, not policies.
23:43.51 brlcad yukonbob: yeah, their end result isn't likely going to be bad ..
23:44.03 brlcad it was just that they're just now getting to the point where incrTcl was five years ago
23:44.27 brlcad feature-wise at least
23:44.38 starseeker Well, considering the state of the Axiom community I suppose I'm in no position to comment...
23:44.49 brlcad most of the complaints that I know of were implementation under-the-hood details
23:45.17 starseeker Hmm. Is there hope then that porting from incrTcl to the new core Tcl stuff would be straightforward?
23:45.23 brlcad I mean, I get the complaints about code maintainability and cleanliness.. but the idea was to *integrate* incrTcl into tcl, so it used the core
23:45.42 yukonbob well -- so be it... my impression of the development is that there is a really concerted effort for "correctness", and incrtcl _always_ rubbed people the wrong way because of it's tinkering with the core (cheap solution) -- now they're at the place where it's as functional as incrtcl 5 years ago, but the code can be looked at and deemed "correct" or "good looking".
23:45.49 brlcad and left plenty of room for refactoring and cleaning up .. they just didn't like the code
23:46.45 starseeker Oh, well. So it goes.
23:46.48 brlcad yukonbob: correct only moreso because they wrote it and now understand it rather than it actually being architecturally very different code-wise
23:47.01 yukonbob brlcad++
23:47.10 yukonbob or [incr brlcad] ;)
23:47.16 louipc nooooo
23:47.20 yukonbob there is a "Tclish" way to do things
23:48.20 louipc L?
23:48.38 brlcad heh
23:48.47 yukonbob tcl, refactored
23:49.00 brlcad set brlcad [expr $brlcad + 1]
23:50.28 yukonbob tcl 8.5 gets lambdas
23:50.47 starseeker Heh - brlcad is still away - coding at the gym now? ;-)
23:58.31 louipc hah they don't?
23:59.05 louipc I could get my math exercises via a website in .ps format
23:59.12 louipc years ago

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.