| 00:23.32 | stuporglu1 | Could someone tell me if BRL-CAD would be an appropriate tool for the following? I want to make a TV cabinet, but I want to model it first, including a folding top and some other moving parts. If I create the cabinet in BRL-CAD, can I run it through the movements to verify that there is enough clearance for all movements? |
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| 19:19.54 | starseeker | Once again I somehow miss major news - PVS got released under the GPL. |
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| 19:59.03 | archivist | PVS? |
| 20:08.48 | fenn | http://pvs.csl.sri.com/introduction.shtml |
| 20:17.30 | archivist | hmm interesting |
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| 20:22.03 | smudla | hi folks |
| 20:24.27 | smudla | i've got some questions about brlcad, is anyone alive here? :-) |
| 20:27.31 | smudla | i'm looking for a linux 3d modeller for my design of a sailing yacht |
| 20:29.40 | fenn | for hull design or all the little bits? |
| 20:29.54 | fenn | brlcad is better for geometrically shaped bits |
| 20:29.58 | smudla | so i would like to talk to any experienced brlcad user... i was considering modelling in blender but that's really rather artistic modeller than cad |
| 20:30.33 | smudla | hull design is best to do in specialized programs like delftship etc... |
| 20:31.24 | smudla | i mean hull design in terms of stability, hydrodinamics and other marine-related stuff |
| 20:32.47 | smudla | so, for now, say that my hull (simply the hull, ie outer dimensions) is finished |
| 20:33.36 | smudla | now i need to create a precise model of whole yacht, so of course model of the hull but with all the things inside |
| 20:33.53 | fenn | why do you need to create a precise model of the yacht? |
| 20:35.38 | archivist | someone did a ship fly through movie from a brlcad model |
| 20:35.48 | smudla | heh...why are 3d models made generally... |
| 20:36.15 | archivist | better visualisation of the object |
| 20:36.17 | smudla | documentation, manufacturing data |
| 20:37.02 | archivist | I find I am faster designing in 3d nowadays |
| 20:39.08 | smudla | frankly, my boat wont be a megayacht but still, 8 metres sailing boat is too expensive thing to make it a trial-error way, so i need everything modelled before i even touch a hammer :-) |
| 20:43.22 | smudla | so, one of my questions is: is it possible to "draw" a pair of curves through precise coordinates and then to form a surface between these curves? |
| 20:44.11 | smudla | (imagine upper line of the side of the boat and the waterline for example) |
| 20:46.40 | smudla | generally irregular, non-developable surface but precisely determined using several points |
| 20:47.08 | alex_joni | sounds like NURBS modelling to me |
| 20:49.19 | smudla | exacly |
| 20:49.41 | smudla | no problem with brlcad? |
| 20:50.28 | brlcad | hello smudla |
| 20:50.56 | brlcad | smudla: are you the one that posted to the forums about hull modelling a while back? |
| 20:51.30 | smudla | no, that a different fool :-) |
| 20:51.45 | brlcad | if you can precisely define the shape of the hull in terms of existing implicit surfaces, then brl-cad will work very well for you |
| 20:52.37 | smudla | yes, i have exact coordinates of enough points on the surface to create it uniquely |
| 20:52.45 | brlcad | otherwise for arbitrary spline surfaces, you're either going to be using an experimental primitive (brl-cad has spline surfaces, but not yet production-ready) or will be using some intermediate type (BoT's with smoothed normals, for example) |
| 20:53.55 | brlcad | as for what you want to do .. drawing a pair of curves through precise coordinates .. that would usually be provided via a birail primitive |
| 20:54.04 | brlcad | which .. brl-cad does not yet have |
| 20:54.21 | smudla | maybe i dont understand the term "implicit surfaces" |
| 20:55.58 | brlcad | that's a much longer topic to explain .. but for now just think of it like whether you can construct the hull using CSG primitives instead of using a birail or spline surface |
| 20:56.53 | brlcad | here are most of the primitives supported in brl-cad: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped.png |
| 20:57.21 | brlcad | that doesn't include the developmental surfaces (superellipsoids, metaballs, and nurbs, maybe a couple others) |
| 20:57.22 | smudla | thx, i'll have a look |
| 20:59.12 | brlcad | smudla: I think you'll *really* want something that will let you model using a birail primitive if your precise dataset is pointwise, which doesn't leave you with many non-commercial CAD options |
| 20:59.20 | smudla | hmm, i can hardly imagine a hull shape created from any of these primitives... |
| 20:59.23 | brlcad | i believe blender does have a birail, but then as you mentioned, it's not great for cad |
| 20:59.46 | brlcad | smudla: you'd probably be surprised what you can make with those primitives ;) |
| 21:00.04 | smudla | yea, thats exactly what i'm coming across |
| 21:00.18 | brlcad | we do have ships in brl-cad constructed with primitives, just usually requires an entirely different design approach and thought process |
| 21:01.48 | brlcad | that said, if you're a developer, I'd be more than glad to help you implement a birail primitive :-) |
| 21:01.49 | smudla | in fact, i take brlcad as the only possibility to do my task in non-commercial cad...all other projects are significantly less developed |
| 21:02.17 | starseeker | brlcad: I'll bet the sf admins are going to shoot you when they figure out how big this svn archive is :-) I'm making a backup tarball and so far it's heading towards 8 gigs with no end in sight ;-) |
| 21:02.20 | brlcad | yeah, we're by far the most developed.. and we still need TONS of effort |
| 21:02.45 | smudla | sorry...i am a developer, but my job is hw development...so electronics...sorry :-) |
| 21:03.12 | brlcad | starseeker: the archive itself is much more compressed |
| 21:03.27 | brlcad | you're doing a checkout of the top-level? |
| 21:03.29 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 21:03.49 | starseeker | More or less by mistake - I just grabbed the command on sf's svn page |
| 21:04.22 | brlcad | e.g. if I tagged the repository 100 times, it'll be 100x size on checkout but only 1x + few bytes per tag in the repository |
| 21:04.35 | brlcad | yeah, their instructions are a bit wonky |
| 21:04.35 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 21:04.42 | starseeker | that explains a lot |
| 21:04.45 | brlcad | thought they do warn in not so many words |
| 21:05.14 | starseeker | I'm too used to the cvs side I guess... |
| 21:05.16 | brlcad | I suspect a full top-level checkout is going to be .. huge |
| 21:05.23 | starseeker | It was |
| 21:05.46 | PrezKennedy | sourceforge is turning evil |
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| 21:08.23 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: how so? |
| 21:09.22 | PrezKennedy | window popped up asking me if i wanted to be notified if paid support for the program i was downloading became available |
| 21:09.23 | brlcad | looks like there is about 100 tags and branches so it's going to be about 100x the real size .. which looks like about 50-200 MB/tag|branch |
| 21:09.31 | brlcad | ewww |
| 21:09.58 | PrezKennedy | still like it for the software of course... but they just seem to be piling on junk now to make a buck |
| 21:10.25 | brlcad | some marketing weenie has gotten ahold of their web team -- they've been trying to push the new marketplace for a couple months |
| 21:11.07 | brlcad | first with some exceptionally annoyingly bright gold "button" (which they later toned way way down) |
| 21:11.14 | starseeker | brlcad: How long until the cvs repo goes away in favor of svn? few months testing time? |
| 21:11.15 | PrezKennedy | they should try making forums that dont suck... thats where most the support takes place |
| 21:12.44 | starseeker | Holiday gatherings always seem to be a guarantee of importing some exotic code germ from somewhere... |
| 21:12.55 | brlcad | starseeker: um, probably never "away", unless you mean no longer displayed .. but yeah, probably a release or two after svn is fully verified |
| 21:13.39 | starseeker | brlcad: I was just thinking if future development was taking place only in svn, having the cvs repo still listed could cause some confusion when people checked it out and saw no changes... |
| 21:13.52 | curious | starseeker, sorry for continuing offtopic , but if you will google for 'transfer factor' you can turn that bug into feature |
| 21:14.04 | curious | starseeker, there are easy immunization methods. |
| 21:14.39 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, I know that |
| 21:14.49 | brlcad | that's what I meant about it being "hidden" but not really going away |
| 21:15.02 | brlcad | i.e. it won't be deleted, but yeah, not displayed |
| 21:15.06 | starseeker | right. I just didn't know when the cvs tree would stop receiving updates |
| 21:15.19 | brlcad | that's already happened |
| 21:15.23 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 21:15.44 | brlcad | unless I run into a big problem this week |
| 21:15.51 | starseeker | righto :-) |
| 21:15.56 | PrezKennedy | murphy's law |
| 21:16.00 | smudla | brlcad: you mentioned some forum, where could i find it? |
| 21:17.15 | brlcad | already verified several things so far: successful dump and clean import, ability to extract full log, still trying to verify ability to checkout everything (first attempt failed in branches) |
| 21:17.38 | brlcad | smudla: I didn't mention any forums, but we do have forums up on sourceforge |
| 21:17.45 | brlcad | http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=105292 |
| 21:17.54 | starseeker | pretty impressive, given that you're probably close to a record for size of history being converted ;-) |
| 21:18.39 | smudla | 21:50:53 <brlcad> smudla: are you the one that posted to the forums about hull modelling a while back? |
| 21:19.18 | brlcad | ooooh, so I did *blush* |
| 21:19.25 | smudla | ;-) |
| 21:19.35 | smudla | thanks a lot, anyway :-) |
| 21:21.59 | brlcad | I think I was thinking of this message: http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4351966 |
| 21:22.18 | brlcad | a skin primitive would also have helped with what you're trying to do |
| 21:24.09 | brlcad | which might change too :) |
| 21:24.26 | brlcad | right now it was all imported as a single-project repository |
| 21:24.35 | brlcad | i'm *really* not sure that I like it that way |
| 21:25.00 | starseeker | Hmm. You thinking to break out the major libraries into their own repositories? |
| 21:25.09 | brlcad | no no |
| 21:25.36 | brlcad | when you set up conversion from cvs to svn, you can do it as a single repository or as multiple projects |
| 21:25.47 | starseeker | Oh, OK. |
| 21:26.06 | brlcad | mostly impacting where the trunk/tags/branches triplets are -- one at the top-level, or one for each module |
| 21:26.54 | brlcad | difference of needing to do svn co https://brlcad.svn.sf.net:/svnroot/brlcad/trunk/brlcad brlcad versus svn co https://brlcad.svn.sf.net:/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad |
| 21:27.30 | starseeker | Got it. |
| 21:29.23 | starseeker | The more fine-grained approach does seem to make sense |
| 21:30.56 | smudla | brlcad: thanks for the link, it seems to be interesting, maybe i wont give up my brlcad-efforts :-) |
| 21:32.20 | brlcad | smudla: best of luck to you whichever path you take, of course |
| 21:32.40 | brlcad | I really do hope we get nurbs and birail primitives working soon, there's just so much to do that one has to choose their battles |
| 21:34.20 | starseeker | Niiice. The svn configure uses the system libs in all but 4 cases |
| 21:34.52 | smudla | brlcad: is there any estimation of "soon"? :-) |
| 21:35.56 | smudla | i mean if we are talking about months or years... |
| 21:37.45 | brlcad | smudla: entirely depends on how many developers are working on what .. which does tend to fluctuate drastically |
| 21:37.51 | brlcad | ~spell drastically |
| 21:37.57 | brlcad | huh |
| 21:38.59 | brlcad | I can say, however, that fully NURBS representation support is our #1 core priority at the moment, followed closely by STEP conversion support |
| 21:40.08 | smudla | so good luck |
| 21:40.15 | brlcad | that effort alone exhausts most existing developer resources for the next 6 months minimum |
| 21:41.06 | brlcad | that said .. a birail primitive wouldn't really be that hard for a dev.. probably could be fully implemented in less than a month with guidance |
| 21:41.09 | smudla | again, pity that i'm a hardware guy so i can't contribute with code |
| 21:44.59 | Z80-Boy | smudla: hehe nekdo z cech? |
| 21:46.13 | smudla | kusuj vole, be social and speak in english... i'm doing my best although my english is terrible :-) |
| 21:46.57 | Z80-Boy | smudla: where are you from? |
| 21:47.10 | smudla | Pilsen |
| 22:02.24 | starseeker | Sweet - NSIS! |
| 22:02.40 | starseeker | Good news indeed |
| 22:11.39 | brlcad | smudla: your english is great |
| 22:11.50 | brlcad | better than many westerners ;) |
| 22:12.06 | starseeker | Indeed :-) |
| 22:12.20 | starseeker | All we speak over here is American :-P |
| 22:13.32 | smudla | haha...stop making fun of me :-D |
| 22:16.18 | smudla | i cannot find any debian package of brlcad...you probably don't know about some too...? |
| 22:19.49 | brlcad | not yet properly integrated with apt yet |
| 22:19.58 | brlcad | a couple have worked on it, but nobody to completion |
| 22:20.10 | brlcad | there is a .deb for 7.8.4 on the website iirc |
| 22:21.04 | brlcad | that should work fine for a new user, otherwise you can compile from source and it'll install isolated into /usr/brlcad |
| 22:22.01 | smudla | that seems to be the best way |
| 22:23.15 | smudla | maybe i can start with older version, you're right...now i'm interested mostly in the ARS primitive |
| 22:23.45 | smudla | because "waterline" sounds quite familiar to me :-) |
| 22:30.23 | brlcad | :-) |
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| 23:02.00 | smudla | i'm browsing the documentation of brlcad but i can't find any detailed info about primitives...where could i for example learn about how to input the waterlines? |
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