00:26.43 |
Maloeran |
Hey Erik, I missed your reply, where did your
comic page go? :) You can say it in privmsg if the talks push the
reply out of the buffer again, thanks |
00:31.41 |
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00:32.38 |
iraytrace |
evening all ! |
00:35.30 |
brlcad |
Maloeran: it's up at http://bzflag.bz/~erik/comics/ |
00:35.40 |
brlcad |
iraytrace: howdy! |
00:35.57 |
iraytrace |
Howdy back! |
00:58.03 |
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01:17.11 |
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01:41.15 |
``Erik |
heh, someone needs to put a fly trap up to
stick lee here |
01:41.46 |
``Erik |
mal: math.missouristate.edu changed to
euler.missouristate.edu and they didn't bother telling me until 4
days after it happened |
01:41.52 |
``Erik |
so I've been fixing the mail handler and shit
to cope |
01:42.07 |
``Erik |
and they didn't bother with a cname cuz
they're tards |
01:42.30 |
``Erik |
but I keep the comic page in cvs, so any place
with a reasonable php can take it fast... a mirror is on bz
:) |
02:09.53 |
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03:11.33 |
starseeker |
iraytrace: So what's it like doing IRC on a
pogo stick? ;-) |
03:12.07 |
iraytrace |
Its SoMeWhAt DiScOnCeRtInG |
03:25.54 |
starseeker |
:-) |
03:26.05 |
starseeker |
Is your connection a bit erratic? |
03:48.22 |
iraytrace |
Sorry, preoccupied with /. |
03:49.29 |
iraytrace |
How's life on the coast? |
04:31.34 |
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07:01.09 |
oden1 |
Good day fellows. |
07:01.16 |
illethal |
pow |
07:01.28 |
illethal |
I use weechat-curses and it never keeps my
nick name the way I want it. |
07:01.45 |
Axman6 |
use irssi, and you |
07:01.49 |
Axman6 |
you'll be fine |
07:01.56 |
Axman6 |
learn to type, and i'll be fine |
07:02.00 |
illethal |
Irssi is similar, ya? |
07:02.03 |
illethal |
Hahaha |
07:02.09 |
Axman6 |
that is, i should learn to type, not you
:P |
07:02.17 |
illethal |
I should learn also. |
07:02.25 |
illethal |
I heard hooked on phonics is pretty
good. |
07:02.48 |
Axman6 |
never used weechat, but it's basically
considered the best cli irc client (and to some, the best irc
client, cli or otherwise ;) |
07:03.02 |
illethal |
I'd have to agree. |
07:03.07 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30457
10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (cmd.h dg.h): this will very-likely
re-break the build on Windows, but bio.h is a private header and
cannot be included in any public headers. (e.g. it shouldn't ever
be installed.) |
07:03.16 |
illethal |
I don't know all the commands but it smokes
the old mIRC I used to use on windows. |
07:04.14 |
brlcad |
shouldn't that be "i herd hokt on fonics iz
prity gud" |
07:04.30 |
illethal |
ya sumtin lik dat |
07:06.54 |
starseeker |
brlcad: What's the alternative to including
bio.h? |
07:07.43 |
brlcad |
not including it? :) |
07:08.40 |
brlcad |
it belongs in the app code, not the public
headers -- it's just included elsewhere |
07:09.03 |
brlcad |
it's also really just a simple wrapper around
a more complex set of #include logic |
07:09.34 |
illethal |
Man brlcad you're so leet. |
07:09.37 |
brlcad |
logic that provide standard and native I/O
decls |
07:13.02 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30458
10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: why are these three ifree
functions needed? if they're special, they should probably be
documented with a comment. |
07:14.09 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30459
10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: give it a name 'just in case'
someone really does need these so they can be given a cppflag that
will make it all better |
07:16.22 |
illethal |
Axman6: in irssi, what is the command to join
another channel, and still remain in the one you are currently
in? |
07:20.31 |
*** join/#brlcad Axman6
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VICTIM] |
07:20.51 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30460
10/brlcad/trunk/regress/flawfinder.sh: add a regression test for
bio.h to make sure nobody adds it to a public header down the
road. |
07:36.01 |
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07:37.31 |
illethal |
Hello president Kennedy. |
07:40.23 |
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07:47.54 |
brlcad |
yay for for file in `find . -type f \( -name
\*.c -o -name \*.cpp -o -name \*.cxx -o -name \*.h -o -name \*.y -o
-name \*.l \) -not -regex '.*src/other.*' -not -regex '.*~' -not
-regex '.*\.log' -not -regex '.*Makefile.*' -not -regex '.*cache.*'
-not -regex '.*\.svn.*' -exec grep -n -I -e '#[[:space:]]*include'
{} /dev/null \; | grep "\"common.h\"" | sed 's/:.*//g'` ; do if
test -f "`echo $file | sed 's/\.c$/\.l/g'`" ; then continue ; fi ;
grep '#[[:space:]]*in |
08:16.29 |
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08:27.52 |
poolio |
brlcad: Is that you entry in the obfuscated
bash contest? |
08:34.25 |
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08:41.57 |
brlcad |
heh, no way |
08:42.06 |
brlcad |
that's pretty straightforward (to me at least)
:) |
08:42.21 |
brlcad |
half of it is just the find pattern |
08:42.31 |
poolio |
It's straightforward if you try to figure it
out, but at 4am and halfway through a paper, it's
gibberish. |
08:42.40 |
brlcad |
i've written much much longer :) |
08:43.10 |
brlcad |
that one just does a neat thing, finds all
non-lexer files that don't include common as the first
file |
08:44.09 |
poolio |
I always mess up quotes and back quotes and
double quotes |
08:44.14 |
poolio |
And sometimes wish I had another type of quote
to use |
08:48.57 |
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*** join/#brlcad Elperion
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09:33.16 |
brlcad |
:) |
09:33.54 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg: fyi, I'm also working/verifying
the windows build |
09:34.17 |
brlcad |
last stages of trying to make sure everything
is stable and working (particularly windows) for this 7.12.0
release |
09:34.51 |
brlcad |
hopefully the end of this week/weekend if
there aren't any problems -- if you find anything, please let me
know or mail the dev list |
09:36.56 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30461
10/brlcad/trunk/regress/flawfinder.sh: |
09:36.56 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: add another coding check for the
common.h inclusion ordering. this makes sure |
09:36.56 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: common.h always comes first if/when
listed in a file. alas the script isn't |
09:36.56 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: tweaked to work right if there are
spaces in the path name, but then there are |
09:36.56 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: probably other scripts like that in
regress too |
09:41.58 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30462
10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): some additional bio.h
includes to make the Windows build work again |
09:42.48 |
d_rossberg |
brlcad: now my windows-dll build works
again |
09:57.06 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30463
10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: opennurbs_zlib.h
needs to be installed because of the z_stream type |
10:55.15 |
*** join/#brlcad elite01
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14:22.02 |
brlcad |
d_rossberg: okay |
14:45.44 |
``Erik |
hukt on fonix heheheh |
14:48.21 |
yukonbob |
archivist: oxford |
14:49.12 |
archivist |
Im about 70 miles north near Derby and
Burton |
14:53.29 |
brlcad |
howdybob |
14:53.48 |
yukonbob |
hey -- what's shaking |
14:54.04 |
yukonbob |
(/me was waving North, to archivist)
:) |
14:54.17 |
yukonbob |
:) |
14:55.54 |
archivist |
I like Blackwells bookshop in Oxford |
15:10.16 |
yukonbob |
brlcad: heh |
15:15.00 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30464
10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: include/conf/DATE is in builddir, not
srcdir |
15:15.43 |
brlcad |
gah, then that's version-specific |
15:16.07 |
brlcad |
I traced down one config and during distcheck,
it was stashing DATE into srcdir as a BUILT_SOURCES |
15:16.34 |
brlcad |
that or something else is missing |
15:16.43 |
brlcad |
maybe DESTDIR |
15:27.17 |
``Erik |
O.o |
15:27.17 |
``Erik |
hrm |
15:27.37 |
``Erik |
using the rhel automake, it was bitching about
not finding that file |
15:29.48 |
Maloeran |
Thanks brlcad and ``Erik for the update on the
comics page :) |
15:30.21 |
``Erik |
threre're two copies now, in case one craps
out... one at euler.missouristate.edu and one at
bz.bzflag.bz |
15:34.31 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30465
10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/Makefile.am other/libpng/Makefile.am):
update dependancy info |
15:34.54 |
clock_ |
``Erik: would it help to make the cutting
primitive from more smaller parts? |
15:35.13 |
``Erik |
clock: probably |
15:36.02 |
``Erik |
making the cut lower in the heirarchy with
smaller cutters would be useful |
15:36.05 |
``Erik |
i'd imagine |
15:36.24 |
``Erik |
or just suck it up and accept the slow
raytrace time *shrug* :) |
15:36.27 |
clock_ |
I don't want the cut low in the
hierarchy |
15:36.40 |
clock_ |
but the raytrace takes like a week |
15:37.00 |
``Erik |
yeah? and? :D |
15:37.04 |
clock_ |
Even when I bought a modern 2-CPU machine just
for the purpose of the slow BRL-CAD renderingf |
15:37.52 |
clock_ |
would it help if the cut would still be at the
toplevel, but I wouldn't cut with one big cube, but with a union of
a lot of small cubes? |
15:39.14 |
``Erik |
y'know, thinking about it now, I don't think
so |
15:39.35 |
clock_ |
so to speed up it must be down in the
hierarchy? |
15:39.54 |
``Erik |
the bounding box and bounding sphere grow as
you walk up the heirarchy, and the thing that's killing you is bad
space partitioning, I think |
15:40.09 |
``Erik |
brlcad knows the guts of the space
partitioning crap far better than I do |
15:40.12 |
clock_ |
What is exctly space partitioning? An
octree? |
15:40.18 |
``Erik |
I'm kinda guessing based on symptoms |
15:40.29 |
``Erik |
um, I think it's more of a KD-tree |
15:40.38 |
``Erik |
or BSP |
15:40.45 |
clock_ |
What function does it do in BRL-CAD? |
15:40.53 |
``Erik |
space partitioning? |
15:41.24 |
``Erik |
it's all about culling O.o |
15:41.26 |
clock_ |
SO basically you have a function which you
give a point and it returns you all objects that might intersect
that point? |
15:42.07 |
``Erik |
a ray (or perhaps a line), and all possibly
intersecting geometry on that line/ray |
15:42.48 |
clock_ |
Well my case should slow down exactly
twice |
15:42.57 |
clock_ |
and not 210x |
15:43.24 |
``Erik |
noooo, in your case, it should slow down up
to, um, I think 10kx? |
15:43.37 |
clock_ |
why? |
15:43.41 |
``Erik |
I lost your .g file |
15:43.48 |
``Erik |
your 'head' object is complex |
15:44.12 |
``Erik |
the possibly slowdown is in the neighborhood
of the number of primitives in head |
15:44.26 |
``Erik |
possible |
15:44.38 |
clock_ |
Can adding one cube increase the complexity
10,000 times? |
15:44.42 |
``Erik |
maybe nlg2n, I d'no the guts of the
code |
15:45.17 |
clock_ |
The rt prints "20,xxx primitives" |
15:45.20 |
clock_ |
20 thousand something |
15:45.24 |
``Erik |
well, if I have a million sphers in a row and
I shoot it from the side, it'll be very fast, because I only ever
have to test one sphere per ray |
15:45.30 |
clock_ |
is it the number of primitives I have in the
scene? |
15:45.43 |
clock_ |
Or does it break down the primitives further
into individual intersecting areas? |
15:45.46 |
``Erik |
but if I cut all of them in half with one huge
box, every ray requires 1m+1 computations |
15:46.01 |
clock_ |
Why? |
15:46.08 |
clock_ |
I would think it requires 2
computation |
15:46.11 |
``Erik |
if I had 1m sphers and 1m corrosponding boxes,
each one cutting a signle sphere, then each ray would take
2 |
15:46.18 |
clock_ |
Once it intersects the bounding box of one
sphere |
15:46.22 |
clock_ |
second times the huge box |
15:47.04 |
``Erik |
... in the general case, you cannot know what
the total impact of that single cutter is |
15:47.12 |
clock_ |
The partitioning should return only those
primitives whose bounding boxes are intersected by the
ray |
15:47.13 |
``Erik |
so you have to evaluate everything in the
tree |
15:47.26 |
clock_ |
So adding one primitive adds maximum one more
hit per ray |
15:47.51 |
clock_ |
Sounds like the algorithm has a bug |
15:47.57 |
clock_ |
which is triggered by my scene |
15:48.13 |
``Erik |
um, the algorithm is fine... I get what you're
thinking SHOULD happen |
15:48.21 |
``Erik |
but there's no way to DO it
computationally |
15:48.24 |
clock_ |
I don't get it |
15:48.29 |
``Erik |
that's where the human blows the machine
away |
15:49.26 |
clock_ |
So you basically do some kind of heuristics
and my case is a poison case for that heuristic? |
15:49.37 |
``Erik |
ok, i have a million spheres... and I want to
cut them in half... but instead of just being discrete spheres in a
row, they're now complex... they overlap, some are unions, some are
intersections, some are subtractions, and multilayered |
15:49.40 |
``Erik |
what do you do? |
15:49.50 |
clock_ |
shoot a ray |
15:49.56 |
``Erik |
answer? no way to know. Have to bump the
bounding volume and weave at the end. |
15:50.16 |
clock_ |
ask the partitioner which spheres bounding
boxes intersect my ray |
15:50.19 |
``Erik |
actually, there IS a way to know, but it'd
take a century to figure out before you could even fire a
ray |
15:50.24 |
clock_ |
intersect only with those returned from the
partitioner |
15:50.26 |
clock_ |
weave the logics |
15:50.41 |
``Erik |
but you don't know which spheres bb's
MATTER |
15:50.52 |
``Erik |
you can't until after you intersect them
all |
15:51.10 |
``Erik |
after you weave them, in fact |
15:51.16 |
clock_ |
that's without the partitioner |
15:51.26 |
clock_ |
the idea of the partitioner is to cull this
before you have to fire rays |
15:51.30 |
``Erik |
yeah... |
15:51.34 |
``Erik |
it culls what it can |
15:51.41 |
clock_ |
and btw, intersecting with a cube is not much
work |
15:52.22 |
``Erik |
except it's not "a cube", it's "arbitrary
geometry" |
15:52.44 |
clock_ |
if it's bounding box, then it's a
box |
15:52.56 |
clock_ |
if it were a bounding elephant, then it would
be in a shape of an elephant. |
15:53.23 |
``Erik |
I assert that its' a lot more complex than you
think. Please prove me wrong and provide a patch. :) |
15:54.26 |
clock_ |
Does the documentation of BRL-CAD contain any
tips how to avoid running into excessive rendering time? |
15:54.39 |
clock_ |
I mean the official user
documentation. |
15:54.44 |
``Erik |
<-- doesn't know |
15:54.46 |
clock_ |
Not some comments in the code. |
15:55.34 |
clock_ |
I could try to isolate the pathological
case |
15:55.49 |
clock_ |
I am trying to use BRL-CAD as a user and I
fail. |
15:56.07 |
``Erik |
we already know the pathological case... and
that there's no quick fix for it |
15:56.10 |
clock_ |
The performance is close to unusable |
15:56.21 |
clock_ |
Btw if I display my model, it also takes ages
to display |
15:56.29 |
clock_ |
And during the display there is no space
partitioning |
15:56.38 |
clock_ |
Another example where BRL-CAD is unusably
slow |
15:57.08 |
``Erik |
*shrug* it's drawing a lot of lines, and
there's no 'detail level' built in right now |
15:57.09 |
clock_ |
What is the pathological case said in general
terms? |
15:57.36 |
clock_ |
I can tell you how long it should
take. |
15:58.05 |
clock_ |
Let's assume all those 20,000 primitives are
cylinders - most are |
15:58.12 |
clock_ |
A cylinder has 2 circles and 4 lines |
15:58.16 |
clock_ |
each circle has 8 lines |
15:58.18 |
clock_ |
that's 20 lines total |
15:58.24 |
clock_ |
400,000 lines in total |
15:58.28 |
``Erik |
intersection with complex geometry increases
the ray trace complexity by the number of primitives
involved? |
15:58.33 |
clock_ |
average length of the line is like 10
pixels |
15:58.36 |
clock_ |
that 4 million pixels |
15:58.47 |
``Erik |
interaction, even |
15:58.47 |
clock_ |
1 pixel is 3 bytes |
15:58.50 |
clock_ |
that's 12 megabytes |
15:59.27 |
clock_ |
let's assume the PCI runs at 100 MHz and each
pixel write takes 4 ticks |
15:59.36 |
clock_ |
that's 500ms to draw it all |
15:59.50 |
clock_ |
in real it takes 30 seconds. 60 times more
than it should. |
16:00.00 |
``Erik |
for non-trivial geometry, raytracing is cpu
bound, not bus bound |
16:00.11 |
clock_ |
this is *not* raytracing! |
16:00.18 |
clock_ |
This is the 'B' command - drawing the
wireframe. |
16:00.57 |
``Erik |
oh, heh, ok, each primitive is composed of
many many lines, each endpoint of the line gets shoved through a
matrix and then the line is rasterized |
16:01.12 |
``Erik |
still cpu bound, drawing the pixels is quick
and easy (even though fb is lametarded slow at it) |
16:01.26 |
``Erik |
and we don't use SSE or graphics card matrix
modules to accelerate it :( |
16:01.36 |
clock_ |
you don't have to |
16:01.42 |
clock_ |
My CPU is 2.2GHz |
16:01.53 |
clock_ |
What I am getting is 8-bit style ZX Spectrum
drawing speed |
16:02.06 |
``Erik |
uh not for the complexity of what you're
trying to draw |
16:02.15 |
``Erik |
remember, we have no LOD :( |
16:02.25 |
``Erik |
so you're not drawing 400,000 pixels |
16:02.30 |
``Erik |
you're drawing 20,000,000 lines |
16:03.28 |
clock_ |
no 400,000 lines |
16:03.56 |
clock_ |
20,000 primitives times 20 lines per
primitive |
16:06.24 |
clock_ |
In which function is a cylindren broken down
into a wireframe of lines for the purpose of display? |
16:06.28 |
clock_ |
cylinder |
16:06.41 |
clock_ |
Maybe there are sinuses and cosinuses I could
kick out |
16:13.17 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30466
10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: heh, skipping 3 and 4, going
right to 5 |
16:15.25 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30467
10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c tcl.c): Include bio.h for
windows compilation. |
16:45.23 |
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CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30468
10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Define
_RT_DECL_IFREE. This is needed by asc2g. |
16:56.02 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30469
10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Define
_RT_DECL_IFREE. |
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CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30470
10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Need to check for the
existence of the display variable. |
17:39.33 |
CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30471
10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/rtwizard.bat: Update the version. There
should be a way to do this dynamically. |
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CIA-32 |
BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30472
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