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| 00:42.40 | brlcad | hello hippieindamakin8 |
| 00:42.54 | brlcad | still no review on a submission yet, eh? |
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| 00:53.28 | brlcad | hello cad24 |
| 00:53.34 | cad24 | howdy |
| 00:53.36 | brlcad | wonders who that could be |
| 00:53.44 | cad24 | wonders too |
| 01:24.20 | hippieindamakin8 | hey sean |
| 01:25.11 | hippieindamakin8 | i shall submit a proposal soon :(,, too much of academic load rt now.. the endsemester examinations are up in 20 days :( and project submissions |
| 01:25.25 | hippieindamakin8 | when can i send u a proposal by the latest ? |
| 01:25.31 | hippieindamakin8 | for a review |
| 01:26.11 | brlcad | well gsoc hard deadline is on the timeline, I presume you know when that is |
| 01:26.23 | hippieindamakin8 | ya |
| 01:26.28 | hippieindamakin8 | march 31st |
| 01:26.40 | brlcad | otherwise, it's up to you |
| 01:27.00 | brlcad | just the later, the harder it will be to properly review and iterate on the design |
| 01:27.15 | hippieindamakin8 | i am going through librt right now .. and some presentations by john anderson on application development |
| 01:27.22 | hippieindamakin8 | ya i know :( |
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| 08:17.51 | cosurgi | brlcad: sorry, I had unplanned reboot. And I'm afraid that more may be coming. |
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| 12:15.16 | CIA-33 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30568 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): updates to librtserver |
| 13:36.41 | ``Erik | blargh. |
| 13:37.54 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:38.56 | ``Erik | the '68 prediction of 2008 on slashdot right now, one of the predictions was a 4 hour work day and 2 hours home study to keep up... with lots of free time... smacksnot comment is painfully true... |
| 13:39.03 | ``Erik | "They got it almost spot on: 4 hours actual work; 2 hours slashdot; 2 hours talking; 2 hours walking around the office; 1 hour making coffee's; 3 hours replying to emails; 3 hours answering telephones; 1 hour break time; 2 hours travel time; 2 hours home study time; 2 hours sleep. Rinse-and-repeat." |
| 13:40.50 | archivist | has reduce /. and increases irc |
| 13:45.12 | clock_ | this amuses me http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/03/24/what-will-life-be-like-in-the-year-2008/?Qwd=./MechanixIllustrated/11-1968/forty_years_future&Qif=forty_years_future_2.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=XL |
| 13:45.29 | clock_ | electrostatic precipitators clean the air in homes |
| 13:45.51 | ``Erik | "ionic breeze" |
| 13:46.06 | clock_ | I don't have electrostatic precipitators. I leave dust to accumulate on the floor and when it's annoying I pick up a broom and broom it together and throw into the dustbin |
| 13:46.21 | clock_ | Ocassionaly, when I manage to cross the threshold of my laziness, I do the whole room with a vacuum cleaner |
| 13:46.35 | ``Erik | I leave it on the floor until my wench find it annoying and she picks up the broom O.o |
| 13:46.36 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:46.48 | archivist | whats a broom |
| 13:46.48 | clock_ | wench == ? |
| 13:46.52 | ``Erik | woman |
| 13:47.05 | archivist | the_wench is my bot in #mysql |
| 13:47.10 | clock_ | archivist: a stick with bristles at the end that is used to sweep surfaces of particulate debris |
| 13:47.32 | ``Erik | an old derogatory term |
| 13:49.39 | archivist | "serving wench" the girl that brings the beer |
| 13:50.01 | ``Erik | if that's the definition of "serve" you want to use |
| 13:50.03 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 13:51.40 | clock_ | ``Erik: wench == wife? |
| 13:52.04 | ``Erik | no, just a gf right now |
| 13:52.17 | clock_ | What I find annoying on todays world is too civilized |
| 13:52.52 | ``Erik | I find it more annoying at how incredibly incivilized it is, yet pretending it's highly civilized |
| 13:52.55 | archivist | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wench |
| 13:54.55 | clock_ | the civilization takes fun away |
| 13:55.12 | clock_ | Zurich is more civilized than Prague it has flat sidewalks like runways |
| 13:55.20 | clock_ | When I ride skateboard it's dead boring all the way |
| 13:55.46 | ``Erik | skateboards, such an uncivilized behavior *sigh* |
| 13:55.47 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:55.49 | clock_ | Prague has cracks and I have to jump the cracks, they are always different size differently spaced so it never gets boring |
| 13:56.16 | clock_ | In Zurich I see no nature in the street |
| 13:56.40 | clock_ | In Prague I see grass between a lamp post and the sidewalk, in the crack of the sidewalk, in the crack between the sidewalk and the road |
| 13:56.52 | clock_ | No grass -> depressive -> depression -> suicide -> bad |
| 13:56.59 | clock_ | No wonder Swiss have such a high suicide rate |
| 13:57.36 | clock_ | We are FUCKING DEPARTING FROM THE NATURE |
| 13:59.33 | clock_ | I hope US don't have such obsessively compulsively overperfect streets |
| 14:01.05 | clock_ | god bless dust cracks bugs and dirt |
| 14:01.35 | clock_ | noone has ever died from a peeling plaster! |
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| 14:19.41 | MinuteElectron | clock_: if it got infected ;) |
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| 15:50.09 | yukonbob | morning, cadheads |
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| 17:27.38 | brlcad | burps |
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| 17:52.34 | lifeeth | hello all |
| 17:53.13 | lifeeth | I had some queries regarding one of the gsoc project ideas..."Web-based solid geometry model repository" |
| 17:53.43 | brlcad | howdy lifeeth |
| 17:54.03 | brlcad | hang around and we can talk about it in a while .. have to run off for a little while |
| 17:54.13 | lifeeth | ok |
| 17:54.19 | brlcad | (back in like 30min I think) |
| 17:54.42 | brlcad | otherwise, maybe one of the other guys can get you set up with info |
| 17:55.22 | lifeeth | @brlcad....I have a little bit of work...I will also be back in 30 min |
| 17:55.32 | lifeeth | Thanks |
| 17:59.38 | yukonbob | shuts off lights, flips "open" sign to closed for next half hour |
| 18:04.58 | ``Erik | kicks off his shoes and leans back |
| 18:34.49 | louipc | curses because his email isn't working. |
| 18:35.55 | ``Erik | curse? sounds more like a blessing |
| 18:37.04 | yukonbob | louipc: I can send my spam to the screen if you like, for that "Thank goodness I've got email" feeling. |
| 18:37.40 | ``Erik | /dcc send louipc ~/Mail/Spam |
| 18:39.14 | louipc | yukonbob: as long as they come with the patches I want :D |
| 18:40.08 | louipc | I actually get no spam in my public email address |
| 18:41.10 | louipc | but I get some spam in my personal mail because people don't know how to use the bcc field when forwarding to all their friends and shit |
| 19:15.07 | lifeeth | hello again |
| 19:15.15 | lifeeth | I had some queries regarding one of the gsoc project ideas..."Web-based solid geometry model repository" |
| 19:15.15 | brlcad | lifeeth: so did you have a particular question in mind about the task? there's a lot of leeway in the design |
| 19:16.47 | lifeeth | I have done some web development works before.. |
| 19:17.07 | lifeeth | But I don't use brlcad... |
| 19:17.53 | lifeeth | Do I need to have a strong familiarity with brlcad if I intend to work on this project |
| 19:19.18 | brlcad | not really strong |
| 19:19.44 | brlcad | basically the web interface can be seen like a wiki for 3D geometry models .. |
| 19:20.10 | brlcad | but to manage that effectively, you really need integrated tools -- like if someone uploads a model, you want to be able to see what that things looks like |
| 19:20.33 | brlcad | so you need to generate some pictures (or integrate some sort of 3d viewing mechansim, but that's a fair bit more effort) |
| 19:20.47 | brlcad | we have ways to generate pictures, so the web interface just runs the tool |
| 19:20.57 | brlcad | have you ever looked at the backend to Gallery? |
| 19:21.23 | lifeeth | Not the backend |
| 19:21.25 | brlcad | gallery might even serve a good starting point foundation itself since it has related data management models |
| 19:21.35 | brlcad | have you used gallery? |
| 19:21.36 | lifeeth | But I am familiar with gallery |
| 19:21.39 | brlcad | okay |
| 19:21.47 | brlcad | well like when you upload an image to gallyer |
| 19:22.09 | brlcad | it generates a set of resized images including the thumbnails |
| 19:22.24 | brlcad | it does that by kicking of gd or imagemagik back on the server |
| 19:22.40 | lifeeth | I am familiar with how it does it |
| 19:22.50 | brlcad | this task would involve doing something very similar where there would be renderers and geometry converters being called on the backend |
| 19:23.26 | brlcad | you don't really need to know those tools in depth other than what's needed to use for a specific purpose on the stie |
| 19:23.37 | lifeeth | Ok. |
| 19:23.39 | brlcad | at least that was my basic concept for that task |
| 19:23.48 | brlcad | there are other things that you could also do with that idea |
| 19:24.41 | brlcad | and it doesn't have to be a module, it could be all custom, could be ruby on rails, could be python, php, whatever .. the important aspect is something that will scale well and should be implemented cleanly/maintainably |
| 19:24.41 | lifeeth | Like adding user comments perhaps? |
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| 19:26.01 | lifeeth | I am more towards using existing CMS's so that maintaining and extending the site in the future could be easy |
| 19:26.01 | brlcad | maybe |
| 19:26.15 | brlcad | sure, that's why they were mentioned |
| 19:26.27 | brlcad | that does then help with access controls, comment streams, etc |
| 19:28.22 | lifeeth | I am a bit familiar with drupal |
| 19:29.45 | lifeeth | Are there any other requirements for the project ? |
| 19:30.56 | brlcad | you should define the requirements as you see them in your proposal, we can iterate on them via the comment/review proecess |
| 19:31.23 | brlcad | otherwise, not really, there's more than enough to do to hook in any CMS with the various tools and back-end content management |
| 19:31.56 | brlcad | geometry files can be *huge* (hundreds of megs or more) or tiny (just a few bytes) |
| 19:32.30 | brlcad | it would be nice to be able to categorize your models with tags/groupings when they are uploaded (e.g. via keywords) |
| 19:33.15 | lifeeth | i think that part can be managed , |
| 19:33.41 | archivist | web 3d viewing mechansim is a nice idea |
| 19:34.24 | lifeeth | A folksonomy would also be nice on the page |
| 19:35.33 | lifeeth | The 3d viewing mechanism might require the use of flash or java which might not be a pleasant experience for some users |
| 19:36.32 | brlcad | yeah, you'd have to make that either painless or otherwise have good detection so that it could fall back to images if not supported |
| 19:36.40 | archivist | there are a few systems about |
| 19:36.53 | archivist | most windows only |
| 19:36.58 | brlcad | otherwise, there are some *really* slick 3D viewers out there, some java some flash, some x3d/vrml plugins, etc |
| 19:37.15 | brlcad | e.g. http://www.javaview.de/demo/PaViewModels.html |
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| 19:40.37 | lifeeth | There are also a couple of java script based ones |
| 19:42.07 | lifeeth | I think I have a fair idea of what all are to be done for the project.. |
| 19:42.13 | lifeeth | Thanks for the help |
| 19:42.41 | brlcad | yeah, several options |
| 19:44.02 | brlcad | proposing implementing one is another possibility too, e.g. getting mged working as an embedded backend using RoR and/or ajax techniques to manipulate the display |
| 19:44.59 | ``Erik | but then we'd need to call it TEW POINT OHHHH |
| 19:46.22 | lifeeth | But then the server needs to be powerful enough if the files are huge |
| 19:48.31 | brlcad | lifeeth: possibly, though the server assets could be throttled too (use work and user queues) |
| 19:50.46 | lifeeth | I meant rendering with mged as a back-end for each user -- If we plan to use it for 3D viewing |
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| 19:52.39 | lifeeth | i dont think the statement was clear... |
| 19:53.27 | lifeeth | I mean if we render upon each user request to rotate |
| 19:53.56 | brlcad | you'd have one mged instance, or a pool of them that stay running -- users visit a page and would attach |
| 19:54.01 | brlcad | mged is very lightweight |
| 19:54.20 | brlcad | or at least can be compiled down to be very lightweight |
| 19:55.27 | lifeeth | But if some one wanted to do something nasty...They can upload a file that takes time to render and run a DoS |
| 19:58.08 | lifeeth | I will analyze the entire requirement and get back to the channel |
| 19:58.26 | lifeeth | Thanks for the help |
| 20:00.04 | brlcad | no problem |
| 20:00.22 | brlcad | feel free to post your idea to the wiki as well when you post your submission |
| 20:00.49 | lifeeth | Sure.. |
| 20:01.05 | brlcad | for us, it will mostly boil down to the quality of the applications themselves, and the candidates interest in long-term ideas (continuing past gsoc) |
| 20:01.29 | brlcad | there's a lot of great stuff to work on, just a matter of getting excited about an idea |
| 20:01.34 | brlcad | and running with it |
| 20:03.29 | cosurgi | brlcad: if you say that this libtool problem on debian is unfixable, or you have no time for that, I'll install libtool from upstream. I think I'll do it circa before saturday. |
| 20:06.20 | cosurgi | needs to do some stuff for yade, quickly. |
| 20:08.19 | brlcad | cosurgi: still working on it, just a lot of thrashing :) |
| 20:08.34 | brlcad | since this is submission week, it's a bit hectic :) |
| 20:08.56 | ``Erik | plus 8 zillion other things to pull attention |
| 20:09.09 | brlcad | yeah |
| 20:11.29 | ``Erik | ahhhhhhhhhh HA |
| 20:11.43 | ``Erik | <-- shakes fist vehemently at debian for a minute or 12 |
| 20:14.23 | cosurgi | brlcad: understood. Thanks :) |
| 20:14.44 | louipc | is it possible to define 'views' in a .g file? |
| 20:16.58 | ``Erik | no, but mged can save seperate view files |
| 20:17.07 | louipc | maybe a modeller could define certain views: top, isometric, cutaway, etc then the web upload client would render a certain number of those or allow the user to select some and that should give a nice preview of the contents with just static images |
| 20:18.40 | brlcad | louipc: there are a the default views, and for a given mged session you can save views in the view ring |
| 20:19.06 | louipc | maybe you can use that somehow |
| 20:19.18 | brlcad | for arbitrary views, you can run saveview/loadview to save/restore views (they're stored as external ray-trace script files that will render that view) |
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| 20:19.54 | brlcad | i just made a mod yesterday that lets you override the renderer used in the saveview (among other options) |
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| 20:26.45 | ``Erik | heh, neat http://bc.tech.coop/blog/images/xo-plt.jpg |
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| 20:40.58 | cosurgi | brlcad: is the "MGED User Commands" in Appendix A of http://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf a complete reference? Or there are some commands left out? |
| 20:42.22 | cosurgi | wants to find out how to do simple 2D drawfting (lines, polylines, arcs, etc) |
| 20:43.06 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD is not a 2d drafting package... if you have a 3d representation, you can use 'rtedge', or if you like pain, you can try using the 'sketch' primitive :) |
| 20:44.02 | cosurgi | ``Erik: I know it's not 2d, and I'm looking for this stuff only becasue it's missing. |
| 20:44.46 | cosurgi | hm, does such reasoning make sense? |
| 20:45.34 | ``Erik | I understand what you're saying, but it's a large domain and the software was tuned to it's niche, not that one |
| 20:46.30 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf if you haven't already seen it :) |
| 20:50.58 | brlcad | cosurgi: the support I spoke to is almost entirely encapsulated in the sketch primitive |
| 20:52.14 | cosurgi | brlcad: ok. in Introduction_to_MGED.pdf I've fouind this: "There are additional shapes available in MGED that are not listed in the |
| 20:52.24 | cosurgi | preceding table: ...... sketch.." |
| 20:52.40 | cosurgi | where can I find some info about sketch? |
| 20:52.43 | ``Erik | imagines a seperate drafting gui could be built that used the underlying libwdb/librt shtuff to make sketch laden .g files, but would make the file useless for CAE |
| 20:54.08 | brlcad | cosurgi: i'm not sure how well documented sketches are |
| 20:54.09 | cosurgi | should learn what is libwdb/librt |
| 20:54.34 | brlcad | there is a basic sketch editor in mged that exposes all of the basic types through a horrid button interface |
| 20:54.49 | cosurgi | ok. |
| 20:55.08 | brlcad | make sk.s sketch |
| 20:55.10 | brlcad | e sk.s |
| 20:55.13 | brlcad | sed sk.s |
| 20:55.19 | brlcad | that will kick off the editor |
| 20:55.41 | brlcad | there's also a command-line input iirc, run "in" |
| 20:55.42 | ``Erik | imagines it's about as fun as LaTeX "picture" mode :D |
| 20:56.12 | brlcad | libwdb is the "write-only geometry database library" |
| 20:56.59 | brlcad | librt is the "ray-trace library" which is basically the core of the geometry engine, handles most of the representation types (in the g_*.c files) |
| 20:57.06 | cosurgi | ``Erik: heh, I was using that picture mode for diagrams in my PhD, http://janek.kozicki.pl/phdthesis/kozicki_2007_PhD.pdf |
| 20:57.42 | ``Erik | guesses he wont' be able to read it |
| 20:57.43 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:58.08 | cosurgi | thanks for explanations :) |
| 20:58.22 | cosurgi | brlcad: the "make sk.s sketch" should be issued inside mged, right? |
| 20:58.27 | brlcad | right |
| 20:58.33 | brlcad | sk.s can be whatever |
| 20:58.50 | brlcad | via the gui, you can Edit -> Sketch iirc |
| 20:59.02 | cosurgi | ok. I didn't compile it, yet :-) |
| 20:59.10 | brlcad | ah, right ;) |
| 20:59.32 | brlcad | will be back on that later today |
| 20:59.32 | cosurgi | but I have irclog, and will go back to this point, and try it :) |
| 20:59.42 | ``Erik | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1467 |
| 20:59.52 | cosurgi | brlcad: don't feel pressed. We have time :) |
| 21:00.26 | brlcad | ahh, awesome.. fracture models |
| 21:00.57 | brlcad | was on a big fracture model kick a few years back.. so want to implement support for that in brl-cad |
| 21:02.07 | ``Erik | weird, a thesis for a polish uni in english O.o but neat stuff, and I can read it :D thanks for the link |
| 21:02.49 | cosurgi | heh. I keep telling everyone around to write their theses in english, because nobody understands polish these days. |
| 21:07.21 | cosurgi | brlcad: if it was a question (the "so want to implement support for that in brl-cad") - then, honestly, I'm more interested in AutoCAD-like GUI for brl-cad than in fracture support in brl-cad :) |
| 21:10.15 | brlcad | cosurgi: completely understand :) |
| 21:10.23 | brlcad | wants a better gui more too |
| 21:12.07 | cosurgi | there is no text primitive, right? |
| 21:12.37 | cosurgi | (because currently the text was done as 3D shapes by some guy) |
| 21:13.44 | ``Erik | sometimes its' done with 3d geometry, sometimes with sketch, I don't believe most models even bother with text (outside of the programatically accessable path names and region id's) |
| 21:17.30 | yukonbob | bets most models don't use text because it's not an option :) |
| 21:18.23 | archivist | a 2d from a model is useless wthout words |
| 21:19.09 | ``Erik | most models were specifically built to use 3 pieces of software, none of which have any use of embedded text (the text woudl just get in the way) |
| 21:23.32 | cosurgi | so for annotations and dimension lines brl-cad will need to add a text primitive. Storing this (drawing) data on the side of GUI is not a good idea. |
| 21:23.47 | yukonbob | would love to see text; possibly both of something like POVRay uses (text as an object), and perhaps something that's not in the model at all, but could optionally display, as an attribute of an item in the model... |
| 21:24.29 | cosurgi | ok, sorry, replace "text primitive" with whatever, attirbute, or sth else. |
| 21:24.51 | ``Erik | we have attributes, they have no graphical representation |
| 21:24.55 | cosurgi | anything that will work for me, and will be done in a clean way inside brl-cad :-) |
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| 21:25.31 | ``Erik | but you can add, query, edit, and delete them in mged |
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| 21:28.13 | cosurgi | ``Erik: so maybe just adding graphical representation info to them would be enough? (eg. font size, is facing the camera or is fixed to some coordinate system, anchor coordinates) |
| 21:28.38 | ``Erik | what about font type? |
| 21:29.06 | ``Erik | and what if the machine doesn't have that font available? do fonts have to be carried inside of the .g, like PDF does? |
| 21:29.31 | cosurgi | could be. But for start I'd just deal with simple .shx (vector) fonts. |
| 21:29.48 | cosurgi | I think that GUI provides font. |
| 21:29.56 | ``Erik | someone here was drawing fonts on the display, he ended up making each character out of (bunches) of triangles, ugly stuff |
| 21:30.11 | ``Erik | TK provides some fonts, yeah |
| 21:30.26 | cosurgi | to make things simple - solve this problem by ignoring it. |
| 21:30.36 | cosurgi | later could be improved. But not now. |
| 21:30.53 | cosurgi | OpenGL has fonts too. |
| 21:30.57 | ``Erik | aight, happy hacking on that :D |
| 21:31.02 | ``Erik | ogl has no native fonts |
| 21:31.19 | ``Erik | several extra packages exist to draw fonts using ogl, but ogl itself has no concept of that |
| 21:31.46 | cosurgi | sorry, it's in glut, the glutBitmapCharacter |
| 21:31.47 | ``Erik | GLUT has the text stroke thingy, um, what's his name did that one that converts a set of X glyphs into a texture to draw |
| 21:32.14 | ``Erik | has written his own X font to ogl texture converters as well |
| 21:32.56 | ``Erik | and a gimp thingy to generate a cell managed image of a font, fun stuff |
| 21:33.30 | ``Erik | should go on haitus and do game coding again so he can enjoy computers once more O.o :D |
| 21:35.41 | cosurgi | ok. time to sleep for me. goodnight |
| 21:35.46 | ``Erik | night, dude |
| 21:53.28 | louipc | hmm it's funny to read someone that complains that a 1.6GHz cpu + 2G RAM is slow |
| 21:53.45 | ``Erik | dual 1.6ghz |
| 21:54.00 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@217-162-110-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:54.08 | louipc | dual! shikes |
| 21:54.24 | alex_joni | it ain't no 16-cores machine |
| 21:54.50 | ``Erik | kicks his slow-assed 8 core 3ghz 16GB machine |
| 21:55.35 | archivist | cuddles his dual PII 200mhz |
| 21:55.37 | louipc | yeah I saw some ads for 8cores now |
| 21:55.54 | ``Erik | actually |
| 21:56.09 | ``Erik | kicks firefox for being brainfuck slow on a smoking 8x3ghz 16GB machine |
| 21:56.47 | archivist | firefox is just slow (broken internal methods) |
| 21:56.49 | hippieindamakin8 | woah naice machini man |
| 21:57.00 | hippieindamakin8 | hey all |
| 21:57.02 | louipc | firefox is written in javascript hah |
| 21:57.21 | louipc | hi hippieindamakin8 |
| 21:57.21 | archivist | slowscript |
| 22:01.20 | ``Erik | wanders home |
| 22:13.48 | hippieindamakin8 | can somebody tell me where is the jbrlcad module.. sean are u back ? |
| 22:15.09 | louipc | https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/jbrlcad/trunk/ |
| 22:16.39 | louipc | I don't think that has been distributed as tarballs |
| 22:17.31 | hippieindamakin8 | ohk |
| 22:17.35 | hippieindamakin8 | tx :) |
| 23:03.04 | *** join/#brlcad nmh_2Grajw (n=nmh@gw.nomh.org) | |
| 23:28.52 | brlcad | yup |
| 23:28.56 | brlcad | thx louipc |
| 23:29.05 | brlcad | hello nmh_2Grajw |
| 23:32.41 | CIA-33 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30569 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtserver.h: Added a few more declarations |
| 23:36.18 | *** part/#brlcad ewilhelm (n=ewilhelm@71.111.48.138) | |
