| 00:01.37 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:02.05 | nmh_2Grajw | oh, hi |
| 00:06.47 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1178014867.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:23.33 | brlcad | nmh_2Grajw: have a particular question, just lurking? :) |
| 00:24.05 | nmh_2Grajw | brlcad: if it is not a problem, both :) |
| 00:24.15 | brlcad | not a problem in the least |
| 00:31.38 | *** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:51.54 | CIA-33 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30570 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtserver.h: remove duplicate decls, sort lines |
| 00:52.31 | louipc | brlcad: no problemo |
| 00:57.38 | nmh_2Grajw | hmm.. I am trying to export a single shape database to ascii, but I can't seem to find the file. Is there anything special I should know about this? |
| 00:59.15 | Daytona | the mged export asks for a file name, is that how you did it? |
| 01:00.21 | nmh_2Grajw | Daytona: yeah (the menu and dialog box). I tried "test.asc" , "/tmp/test.asc" and others |
| 01:01.28 | Daytona | another way to do it is from the command line: g2asc file.g file.asc |
| 01:03.33 | nmh_2Grajw | Daytona: hmm, now I feel dumb. I tried g2asc and (thought it didn't work) I just went to doublecheck and I have test.asc sitting right there in the directory. |
| 01:04.54 | Daytona | I just tried saving from mged and it worked for me. The asc file appeared in thwe same directory where I started mged |
| 01:05.42 | nmh_2Grajw | Daytona: yeah, that is what I see now. Thanks! |
| 01:05.52 | Daytona | you're welcome |
| 01:07.57 | nmh_2Grajw | continuing with the easy stuff - when I click the mouse button in the graphics window, the view zooms out - changing stuff in the mouse behavior menu doesn't change this. Is there an easy way for me to fix this? |
| 01:10.30 | CIA-33 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30571 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: dbconcat verified, seems to work like a charm with default, -s, -p with or without affix |
| 01:10.52 | Daytona | the settings->Mouse Behavior menu mostly applies to middle button clicks |
| 01:13.39 | Daytona | In fact, I think it only applies to middle button |
| 01:14.27 | nmh_2Grajw | Daytona: I guess I will just be careful, since I only have one mouse button. |
| 01:15.12 | Daytona | Yes, the interface is designed for a 3 button mouse |
| 01:15.27 | brlcad | heya Daytona |
| 01:15.45 | Daytona | yo |
| 01:16.16 | brlcad | nmh_2Grajw: the mouse bindings as they are are called the "shift grips", you can get different behaviors depending on whether you're clicking with various modifiers pressed as well |
| 01:17.02 | Daytona | Yes, perhaps brlcad can provide advice for users with a one button mouse? |
| 01:17.05 | brlcad | I presume you're on a mac -- if you cmd-click, it should emulate the same event as a left-click |
| 01:17.26 | brlcad | likewise, option-click will give you middle-mouse |
| 01:17.51 | Daytona | I knew brlcad would know about those macs |
| 01:17.55 | brlcad | (cmd == the command key, i.e. the key with the apple on it) |
| 01:18.10 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:19.21 | nmh_2Grajw | neato (getting something useful out of the mouse) |
| 01:19.30 | brlcad | shift-control-click will give you dynamic zoom, shift-click will pan, ctrl-option-click will rotate |
| 01:20.34 | brlcad | control-option-click is probably what you're used to, if anything |
| 01:21.02 | nmh_2Grajw | yes, control-option-click == click, it seems |
| 01:22.00 | brlcad | control-option-click(and hold depressed while moving the cursor) |
| 01:23.57 | brlcad | ah, sorry, made that more complicated -- it's the same as just control-click(keep depressed and move cursor) |
| 01:32.43 | nmh_2Grajw | ooc, how important is white space in the ascii database files? (does each put need to be on a single line, or could I have each vertex on its own line?) |
| 01:33.32 | Daytona | The ascii file is just a Tcl script, so it follows the same syntax |
| 01:35.49 | Daytona | you can extend to another line by escaping the newline |
| 01:36.41 | nmh_2Grajw | ahh, good to know (both the Tcl and the newline) |
| 01:58.40 | nmh_2Grajw | I am going to go off and poke at this some more, thank for the help! |
| 01:59.11 | brlcad | nmh_2Grajw: sounds good, drop by any time |
| 02:02.55 | *** part/#brlcad nmh_2Grajw (n=nmh@gw.nomh.org) | |
| 03:21.24 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
| 03:55.45 | pacman87 | after the source svn and compiling (25 minutes later), the last several lines are errors |
| 03:55.56 | pacman87 | *getting the source |
| 03:57.05 | brlcad | hey pacman87 |
| 03:57.12 | brlcad | pacman87: which os? |
| 03:57.16 | pacman87 | slackware 12 |
| 03:57.29 | brlcad | hm, haven't seen that in a long while -- what's the error? |
| 03:57.35 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 03:57.36 | ibot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste |
| 03:57.49 | brlcad | er, paste.bzflag.bz |
| 03:58.01 | pacman87 | http://pastebin.com/m4dfb88ac |
| 04:01.34 | brlcad | need more than that |
| 04:01.43 | brlcad | lines preceeding |
| 04:01.46 | pacman87 | how far back? |
| 04:01.52 | brlcad | to the compile line |
| 04:01.56 | brlcad | gcc |
| 04:02.03 | pacman87 | i ran make |
| 04:02.22 | brlcad | yeah, but if you look up the preceeding lines, one of them mentions gcc |
| 04:02.30 | brlcad | from there forward |
| 04:02.32 | pacman87 | if gcc... |
| 04:03.23 | pacman87 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m8c1030c |
| 04:04.01 | brlcad | ahh |
| 04:04.05 | brlcad | what was your configure line? |
| 04:04.19 | brlcad | looks like it auto-detected a system tcl |
| 04:04.25 | pacman87 | ./configure --enable-optimized |
| 04:04.31 | brlcad | but not a system incrTcl |
| 04:04.44 | brlcad | 8.4 is incompatible with our incrTcl |
| 04:04.56 | brlcad | make that ./configure --enable-optimized --enable-aa |
| 04:05.00 | brlcad | er, --enable-all |
| 04:05.26 | pacman87 | does --enable-optimized incease compile tim? |
| 04:05.29 | pacman87 | time |
| 04:07.01 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:07.05 | brlcad | no |
| 04:07.09 | brlcad | quite the contrary |
| 04:07.31 | brlcad | er, sorry -- yes it does |
| 04:07.47 | brlcad | read that backwards :) |
| 04:07.52 | pacman87 | by how much? |
| 04:08.03 | brlcad | about doubles it on most systems |
| 04:08.23 | brlcad | likewise turning it on will give about a rough 2X runtime boost |
| 04:08.30 | brlcad | (wrt ray-tracing) |
| 04:08.37 | pacman87 | ok, so i'll take it off for now |
| 04:08.44 | pacman87 | dont' want to wait another 25 min |
| 04:08.53 | brlcad | yeah |
| 04:09.11 | brlcad | sounds like you're machines not too spiffy too .. bwish is probably only about 1/3 through the compile |
| 04:09.16 | brlcad | which is where it stopped |
| 04:09.21 | pacman87 | wow |
| 04:09.42 | brlcad | tis a big package, more than a million lines |
| 04:09.57 | brlcad | lots of functionality |
| 04:10.10 | pacman87 | it's a 2.8 GHz P4, no hyperthreading, 533MHz fsb, 1280 MB ram PC2700 |
| 04:10.56 | brlcad | yeah, mildly aged .. but that shouldn't take more than a half-hour I'd think |
| 04:11.30 | brlcad | (with opt off, with it on depends on many factors) |
| 04:12.13 | pacman87 | i'm interested in applying for GSoC |
| 04:12.24 | brlcad | excellent |
| 04:12.36 | pacman87 | 3rd year ME student at UT austin |
| 04:13.13 | brlcad | so where's your interest? |
| 04:13.31 | pacman87 | i've been lookign at the new primitives section |
| 04:13.45 | brlcad | cool |
| 04:14.03 | pacman87 | even though that's not one of the 'high priority' ones on the list |
| 04:14.11 | pacman87 | it's probably the one i'd be best at |
| 04:14.18 | brlcad | a good application overrides the priorities |
| 04:14.38 | brlcad | those priorities are project priorities, not applicant priorities |
| 04:14.43 | pacman87 | i noticed your app guidelines "do |
| 04:14.52 | pacman87 | 's", says "play the game" |
| 04:14.59 | brlcad | heh, it does? |
| 04:15.02 | pacman87 | yeah |
| 04:15.08 | pacman87 | second paragraph |
| 04:15.09 | brlcad | I thought I got all those taken care of |
| 04:15.11 | brlcad | thanks |
| 04:15.29 | pacman87 | i suppose it could be taken more metaphorically |
| 04:15.33 | pacman87 | the programming game |
| 04:15.37 | brlcad | hehe |
| 04:16.12 | brlcad | our project admin is also the project admin for bzflag |
| 04:16.22 | brlcad | so the texts are ... really similar :) |
| 04:16.32 | brlcad | nice that you noticed though, seriously |
| 04:17.02 | pacman87 | finished! 6m20s |
| 04:17.25 | brlcad | wow, that's one seriously expensive optimization loop |
| 04:17.34 | pacman87 | no kidding |
| 04:17.35 | brlcad | did you make clean or just make? |
| 04:17.39 | pacman87 | make |
| 04:17.41 | brlcad | okay |
| 04:17.45 | brlcad | so that saved you some time |
| 04:17.54 | brlcad | you'll have a mix of optimized and unoptimized |
| 04:18.05 | brlcad | (which is not a problem) |
| 04:19.08 | brlcad | means you probably only had about 15 minutes left, your optimized compile is probably about 30-40 minutes it sounds |
| 04:19.16 | pacman87 | how are the current primitives handled? |
| 04:19.20 | hippieindamakin8 | hey Sean |
| 04:19.22 | brlcad | unoptimized is probably 15-25 |
| 04:20.03 | brlcad | pacman87: the librt library is the primary harbor for the primitives -- that's where they are predominantly defined |
| 04:20.11 | brlcad | src/librt/g_*.c |
| 04:20.28 | pacman87 | ok, i'll start my code reading there |
| 04:20.41 | brlcad | there's a g_*.c for each primitive type with what should be fairly obvious callbacks |
| 04:20.54 | hippieindamakin8 | hey Sean i wen through some files of jbrlcad |
| 04:20.57 | brlcad | g_xxx.c is a stubbed version iirc |
| 04:20.58 | brlcad | hey hippieindamakin8 |
| 04:21.05 | hippieindamakin8 | and i seem to get a hang of that problem statement |
| 04:21.29 | brlcad | hippieindamakin8: after you read through jbrlcad, compare that to what's going on in src/librt |
| 04:21.38 | brlcad | in the main brlcad module |
| 04:21.40 | hippieindamakin8 | sure |
| 04:21.59 | brlcad | you'll see that there is LOTS of overlap, it's designed off of the current C api (as we're already rather modular) |
| 04:22.21 | hippieindamakin8 | i am rt now understand the optimised ray tracing stuff too :P |
| 04:22.31 | hippieindamakin8 | ok.. |
| 04:22.55 | brlcad | pacman87: the other two places to look are src/libwdb where there is an mk_*() function for each primitive type to create them procedurally, and src/mged/typein.c and a few others have some of the editing/input methods for creating them |
| 04:24.50 | brlcad | pacman87: you also considering applying to bz? |
| 04:25.24 | pacman87 | i'm not really sure what i'd do there |
| 04:26.12 | brlcad | k, just checking |
| 04:26.27 | brlcad | now I realize why your nick was so familiar though :) |
| 04:26.35 | brlcad | been there since last winter iirc |
| 04:26.50 | pacman87 | right, that's when i started doing plugins |
| 04:35.48 | pacman87 | hmm, running /usr/brlcad/bin/mged opens the window and takes 96%cpu to do nothing - no menus open |
| 05:05.23 | brlcad | odd, not seen that before |
| 05:05.33 | brlcad | what version are you using? |
| 05:05.49 | pacman87 | 7.12.1 |
| 05:06.00 | brlcad | probably something really recent |
| 05:06.19 | brlcad | related to the non-backgrounding we do now |
| 05:06.32 | brlcad | or it's actually receiving a constant stream of events |
| 05:06.42 | brlcad | would have to profile/debug it |
| 05:07.24 | pacman87 | what would you recommend using? |
| 05:08.10 | brlcad | gprof, valgrind, oprofile |
| 05:08.29 | brlcad | gprof is pretty simple, if installed, you could recompile with --enable-profile |
| 05:08.43 | brlcad | and it'll profile it by default |
| 05:09.17 | pacman87 | man gprof |
| 05:11.40 | brlcad | basically involves adding -pg to the compile and link lines -- then you just run the binary once it's installed and it'll dump out a gmon.out file .. then you run gprof /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in the same dir as that gmon.out file and it'll generate a report |
| 05:12.08 | brlcad | you could also run mged inside gdb, and just ctrl-c a few times to see where in the stack trace it is |
| 05:13.08 | pacman87 | i've been telling myself to learn to use a debugger for a while now, but all of my programs have been small enough that printf() is sufficient |
| 05:13.46 | brlcad | very useful skill to learn |
| 05:14.02 | hippieindamakin8 | same here |
| 05:16.57 | pacman87 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:16.57 | pacman87 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:40.10 | brlcad | so run, let it go for a couple seconds, then quit? :) |
| 05:40.33 | brlcad | it should be exiting normally |
| 05:41.15 | pacman87 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m60fc5897 |
| 05:41.19 | pacman87 | from gdb |
| 05:42.38 | brlcad | mged's not hung is it? |
| 05:42.43 | brlcad | does it respond? |
| 05:42.45 | pacman87 | no |
| 05:42.55 | pacman87 | *no response |
| 05:42.56 | brlcad | no to which? |
| 05:43.01 | brlcad | ah, so it's hosed |
| 05:43.12 | brlcad | it'll be hosed once you ctrl-c in mged |
| 05:43.16 | brlcad | s/hosed/paused/ |
| 05:44.12 | brlcad | run "mged -c" .. and select 'nu' .. does that use cpu? |
| 05:45.11 | pacman87 | no |
| 05:45.57 | pacman87 | i get the standard "mged>" prompt, which responds normally |
| 05:48.59 | brlcad | okay, that's good |
| 05:51.29 | brlcad | next thing to try, same -c but select X |
| 05:53.20 | pacman87 | standard "mged>" in terminal, plus a dm_X0 window, and cpu is fine |
| 05:55.08 | brlcad | well that's enough to work on a new primitive *ahem* :) |
| 05:55.33 | pacman87 | i first tried brlcad 3-4 years ago |
| 05:55.43 | pacman87 | lookign for a free/open source CAD program |
| 05:55.57 | brlcad | so mged is non-functional when you start it with no options, using full-cpu |
| 05:56.03 | brlcad | do the menus respond at all? |
| 05:56.08 | pacman87 | not at all |
| 05:56.19 | brlcad | k |
| 05:56.40 | pacman87 | but i got scared away by the command line (this was before i started teaching myself linux) |
| 05:58.24 | CIA-33 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30572 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: mged seems to be locking up at least on slackware, taking up full cpu and being non-responsive. works find with -c and X dm. reported by pacman87 (thx). |
| 05:58.52 | brlcad | yeah, our command-centric approach is really frightening to some |
| 05:59.05 | brlcad | hence the ton of priority focus on revamping the gui |
| 05:59.15 | pacman87 | UT sold their soul to SolidWorks |
| 05:59.34 | brlcad | yeah |
| 06:00.01 | hippieindamakin8 | i asked my professor here to use brlcad and he said NO :P it aint user friendly |
| 06:00.16 | pacman87 | i'm thinking the revolve would be easiest to do |
| 06:00.31 | brlcad | solidworks, unigraphics/nx, pro/engineer, and catia consume most of the cad domain with autocad dominating drafting |
| 06:00.34 | hippieindamakin8 | its the same everywhere ppl use solidworks |
| 06:01.07 | hippieindamakin8 | ya btw i used pythoncad before realising the existance of brlcad |
| 06:01.15 | pacman87 | i use solidworks at my internship/part time job at ARLUT |
| 06:02.21 | hippieindamakin8 | and i was asked everywhere to use.. autocad :P |
| 06:04.21 | hippieindamakin8 | wat do u work on pacman ? |
| 06:05.24 | pacman87 | autonomous surface vehicle for sonar testing |
| 06:06.30 | brlcad | hippieindamakin8: and what did you think of pythoncad |
| 06:07.59 | hippieindamakin8 | firstly it is good enough for drafting |
| 06:08.35 | brlcad | really think so? I don't get that feeling |
| 06:08.47 | hippieindamakin8 | very simple and good interface for the students |
| 06:09.10 | hippieindamakin8 | that is wat i felt.. but yeah.. brlcad is most optimised |
| 06:09.41 | hippieindamakin8 | it has so far the best real time ray tracing as i have read |
| 06:10.25 | hippieindamakin8 | pythoncad is good enough for amatuers.. :) all my projects so far have been done on pythoncad after my freshman year in college |
| 06:12.19 | hippieindamakin8 | the problem is that it cant export to any standard stuff |
| 06:12.50 | hippieindamakin8 | i meant standard format... wat do u say brlcad |
| 06:16.05 | brlcad | a very immature project with very little practical features, but a nice interface and reasonable features for the start of drafting purposes |
| 06:17.00 | hippieindamakin8 | if u ask me to rate these i would rate pycad4.5 and brlcad 7 |
| 06:19.44 | hippieindamakin8 | cya guys.. time for the class.. i shall be back in 6 hrs |
| 06:19.51 | brlcad | cya |
| 06:47.14 | brlcad | waves g'night |
| 06:48.34 | brlcad | pacman87: one more thing to try, you can run in gdb, set a breakpoint on main or some other early-executed function, and then single-step till things go awry |
| 06:49.11 | brlcad | might get tricky as there's a tcl eval loop that kicks in, but with some patience you would eventually get to the line of interest |
| 06:49.32 | pacman87 | i'll have to do some more research on debuggers first |
| 06:49.44 | brlcad | you can use continue and breakpoints to get to the point in the code that is problematic |
| 06:49.46 | pacman87 | thanks for your help |
| 06:49.52 | brlcad | no problem |
| 06:50.13 | pacman87 | definately a steep learning curve, though (cmd line) |
| 06:51.37 | brlcad | useful gdb commands are "b file:line" or "b function" to set a breakpoint, "run" to run, "c" to continue, "l" to list the sources where you're at, "l line" or "l file:line" to list the sources in a specific place, "p variable" to print it's value, "up" and "down" to go up and down the call stack |
| 06:52.37 | brlcad | "n" to execute the next statement, "s" to step 'into' a function |
| 06:52.50 | brlcad | i think some of the common ones are summarized on the manual page iirc |
| 06:53.08 | pacman87 | yeah, and it's got a pretty nice 'help' feature |
| 06:53.35 | pacman87 | contemplates solving this as his 'bugfix' |
| 06:53.50 | brlcad | would be impressive |
| 06:54.28 | brlcad | and shouldn't be too hard .. might even be able to back up in time through the svn revisions and find a version that was working, find the commit that broke it |
| 06:54.37 | brlcad | bets it was within the last two months |
| 06:56.05 | pacman87 | i'm builing bzflag 2.0.11 and 2.99 now so i can run my servers from linux |
| 06:56.42 | pacman87 | i dual boot winXP |
| 06:57.15 | pacman87 | 2am, goodnight |
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| 13:41.46 | brlcad | notes there's another submission |
| 13:41.54 | brlcad | (and it needs more detail) |
| 15:48.18 | brlcad | d_rossberg: have you tried the 7.12.0 installer? |
| 15:53.41 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.200.134) | |
| 15:55.07 | d_rossberg | brlcad: i can see the source download on sourceforge only, where can i find the installer? |
| 15:58.06 | brlcad | ah, sorry |
| 15:58.12 | brlcad | it's on the anonymous ftp site |
| 15:58.19 | brlcad | ftp://ftp.brlcad.org/incoming |
| 15:59.27 | brlcad | we weren't going to distribute binaries for this .0 release until it was better tested .. and with good reason seeing that wim encountered problems |
| 16:01.16 | d_rossberg | i'm sorry but i'm using linux at home, on monday i'll be back in my office |
| 16:02.57 | d_rossberg | but then i can do (probable) a complete test with a new visual studio |
| 16:03.44 | brlcad | okay, no problem |
| 16:33.43 | brlcad | wonders if Balakrishnan is the guy that was here last night |
| 16:53.58 | cosurgi | brlcad: I got new GPU today, no more unplanned reboots (hopefully). My old GeForce 6600 had lost its fan one year after warranty expired, and my PC was instatenously rebooting once GPU temperature reached 110 C |
| 16:54.49 | cosurgi | so today I bought fanless graphics card :) the cheapest one with dual-DVI, GeForce 8600 GT |
| 16:55.45 | cosurgi | That GPU without a fan was a good method to prevent me from playing games. But it started to interfere with yade development (I'm using OpenGL there) so finally I had to buy a new one. |
| 16:55.56 | cosurgi | (-: |
| 17:00.06 | *** join/#brlcad kannan (i=kannan@117.196.133.89) | |
| 17:01.13 | brlcad | cosurgi: cool, that's a nice card |
| 18:51.46 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130) | |
| 18:52.47 | hippieindamakin8 | hey Sean .. this OO stuff is awesome man.. i am too much interested in this project :) i shall send in a proposal as soon as i wake up |
| 19:06.55 | d_rossberg | hippieindamakin8: yes, make a claim for this topic, it makes the discussion easier |
| 19:08.45 | d_rossberg | there are some attempts you can use |
| 19:16.42 | hippieindamakin8 | i have been going through the jbrlcad module and the librt libraries |
| 19:17.42 | hippieindamakin8 | and i am seriously interested in implementing the OO geometry APIs. .. some of them have already been implemented :) |
| 19:18.07 | hippieindamakin8 | d_rossberg : u are a mentor too ? |
| 19:19.38 | d_rossberg | yes |
| 19:19.48 | hippieindamakin8 | naice :) |
| 19:20.44 | hippieindamakin8 | i have kind of figured out how the geometry has been rendered so far |
| 19:22.47 | hippieindamakin8 | and i would like to code in JAVA itself to continue to build the module .. i am strongly familiar with both C++ and JAVA |
| 19:24.49 | d_rossberg | i have written a c++ interface for my company's purpose, and now we want to implement a full interface as open source |
| 19:25.18 | hippieindamakin8 | company as in ? |
| 19:25.59 | hippieindamakin8 | at the same time u want to make it object oriented framework |
| 19:28.03 | d_rossberg | i would recommend to implement a c++ api first and use this as basis for other languages (e.g. i build a COM interface to use BRL-CAD in MS Excel) |
| 19:31.50 | hippieindamakin8 | COM interface what is it ? |
| 19:32.42 | hippieindamakin8 | BRLCAD in MS Excel interesting.. wat exactly u gonna do .. send some csv s or smthing ? |
| 19:32.52 | hippieindamakin8 | COM do u mean the serial port |
| 19:33.22 | hippieindamakin8 | k :) |
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| 19:57.31 | louipc | COM > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model |
| 19:57.34 | louipc | methinks |
| 19:58.24 | hippieindamakin8 | :( thanks |
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| 20:20.41 | d_rossberg | COM: this was a serious question? |
| 20:23.18 | hippieindamakin8 | i knew that it was called DCOM in linux and the serial port was called COM port here :( |
| 20:24.34 | d_rossberg | DCOM is the network version of COM (similar to CORBA) |
| 20:26.21 | hippieindamakin8 | oh |
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| 20:37.33 | d_rossberg | if you want to write MS Windows modules COM maybe a good choice: they can be used im Visual Basic (for applications too), some commercial CADs are offering a COM interface too |
| 20:39.53 | hippieindamakin8 | ohh :) |
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| 21:28.56 | jdoliner | hello |
| 21:31.02 | jdoliner | anyone here |
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| 21:38.54 | hippieindamakin8 | hello jdoliner |
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