| 00:35.25 | spike_ | hey is anyone doing collada conversion for GSoC? |
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| 00:50.57 | brlcad | spike_: nobody has mentioned it yet |
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| 01:22.28 | mafm | hallo |
| 01:22.40 | Daytona | hi |
| 01:24.13 | mafm | are there mentors for GSoC around? |
| 01:25.03 | Daytona | I am a possible mentor, and brlcad is the organizer for brlcad |
| 01:25.09 | brlcad | mafm: several, what's up? |
| 01:25.34 | mafm | oh, I though that brlcad was a bot ;) |
| 01:25.50 | Daytona | He is, kinda :-) |
| 01:25.55 | mafm | I was thinking about submitting an application for the first idea |
| 01:26.07 | mafm | I know, I know, it's a bit late :P |
| 01:26.16 | Daytona | brlcad" meant that in a nice way :=) |
| 01:26.18 | brlcad | dances the robot |
| 01:26.51 | brlcad | mafm: it's not too late |
| 01:26.57 | Daytona | What was the first idea? (refresh our memory)? |
| 01:26.59 | mafm | should I discuss this in the mailing list instead? |
| 01:27.32 | mafm | the 1st idea is: OpenGL GUI Framework |
| 01:28.36 | brlcad | we can talk here, you can submit a summary or preview of your proposal to the ML if you like so the other mentors can see it (and/or to the wiki and of course eventually to google) |
| 01:28.50 | mafm | the thing is that I don't know if the requirements (C++ and OO design) is enough |
| 01:28.51 | brlcad | mafm: so what do you understand of that task? |
| 01:29.01 | brlcad | or what are your ideas |
| 01:29.23 | mafm | I'm also familiar with CrystalSpace, OpenSceneGraph and OGRE (in that order) |
| 01:29.47 | mafm | since I was developing a 3D game with the first 2, and played a bit with the 3rd |
| 01:30.29 | mafm | hmm, well, the thing is that I don't understand it very well -- let me try to explain it in my words |
| 01:30.36 | brlcad | please do |
| 01:31.08 | spike_ | bbl |
| 01:31.51 | mafm | In http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html there's the following idea under Visualization: |
| 01:32.03 | mafm | Create a 3D geometry browser graphical interface using a common graphics engine (e.g. OGRE, Open Scene Graph, Crystal Space) |
| 01:33.01 | mafm | that would be, I think, to feed one of those engines with BRL-CAD created models to see the results in real time? |
| 01:33.25 | brlcad | sorta |
| 01:33.42 | brlcad | have you ever used brl-cad yet? seen mged? |
| 01:34.41 | brlcad | that 3D geometry browser graphical interface topic is pretty much the same as the first gsoc topic |
| 01:34.45 | mafm | nope, I never used brl-cad, and that's my main question -- if it would be sensible to apply without it |
| 01:35.19 | brlcad | sure, it's sensible -- but you'll have to of course tie the idea to brl-cad though .. so you'll have some learning to do |
| 01:36.08 | brlcad | ~.pt |
| 01:36.09 | ibot | from memory, .pt is Portugal |
| 01:36.11 | brlcad | nifty |
| 01:36.17 | mafm | and about the OpenGL GUI Framework I understand to create a frontend in one of those engines, calling commands of brl-cad |
| 01:36.37 | mafm | kind of what Unix CD burner frontends do |
| 01:36.53 | brlcad | yeah, that's sort of the basic jist |
| 01:37.15 | mafm | what about .pt? :D |
| 01:37.46 | brlcad | much of the work would actually entail working on a network-based prootocol to call backend brl-cad commands |
| 01:38.02 | brlcad | then displaying the results via the gui interface |
| 01:39.09 | mafm | network-based being with sockets really, or just to describe the architecture of the tools collaborating? |
| 01:39.36 | brlcad | so one command might be as simple as "get list of available geometries" .. "get handle for geometry X" .. "get a wireframe display list" .. then display that display list with the gui |
| 01:40.21 | brlcad | mafm: yeah, some simple socket api -- you'd probably get details for the protocol and/or help develop some basic stubs |
| 01:42.08 | mafm | actually the game that I was developing was a multiplayer one, I also coded the communication part :D |
| 01:42.15 | brlcad | the focus would definitely be on the frontend gui side though -- setting up the pieces needed to display/manage geometry |
| 01:42.26 | mafm | kind of "get available characters for the account" :) |
| 01:42.32 | brlcad | maybe the start of a command/debug console for testing the API/commands |
| 01:42.48 | mafm | and then displaying it in the GUI of the client, logging in, etc |
| 01:43.02 | brlcad | exactly |
| 01:43.36 | mafm | there's already support in the backend for that, or it would be part of the project? |
| 01:43.43 | brlcad | the intent of the new system is a client/server interface, so that task revolves around the front-end thin client (emphasis on the thin) |
| 01:44.02 | brlcad | there's not already support -- it's being developed in parallel |
| 01:44.17 | brlcad | so pieces of it might be part of the project, but you could get away with just stubbing responses too |
| 01:44.59 | mafm | ah OK, sounds fun :) |
| 01:45.40 | mafm | and all that with C++ and [L]GPL license? |
| 01:46.29 | brlcad | the language "shouldn't" really matter, I could see several allowed, but C/C++ are our predominant source base and it's nice to stay consistent |
| 01:46.49 | brlcad | LGPL is ideal |
| 01:47.05 | brlcad | s/ideal/required for gsoc/ |
| 01:48.00 | mafm | it's because I like C++ better than C or Java, and those 3 engines are best suited for C++ it seems |
| 01:49.01 | mafm | and well, there are other licenses accepted for SoC, but I tend to use GPL for my projects too |
| 01:49.02 | brlcad | C++ would be my personal preference, but as a thin client, the intention really is to make it easy to wrap clients |
| 01:49.32 | mafm | :) |
| 01:49.38 | brlcad | GPL is highly problematic for us in general |
| 01:50.01 | brlcad | as we integrate and are embedded with lots of analysis codes |
| 01:51.01 | mafm | LGPL is fine too |
| 01:51.24 | brlcad | yeah, details at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance |
| 01:52.38 | mafm | yep, I was reading that |
| 01:53.06 | mafm | you can take a look to my CV in the meanwhile if you're interested: http://www.lip.pt/~mafm/cv-gsoc2008.pdf |
| 01:53.57 | mafm | the website of the game that I've been developing with other ppl for a while is down due to hardware problems |
| 01:53.59 | brlcad | thanks |
| 01:54.26 | mafm | but here's a site with info that I discovered yesterday: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/GAMES-ENTERTAINMENT/RPG/Fearann-Muin-20516.shtml |
| 01:55.01 | mafm | (I didn't expect that we deserved an entry in such a place, being the project stalled, but well :) ) |
| 01:55.15 | mafm | it was initially in CrystalSpace and then in OpenSceneGraph |
| 01:56.09 | mafm | the most beautiful screenshots are not there though, those are with testing models and terrain |
| 01:57.42 | brlcad | so what are your thoughs on CS and OSG? |
| 01:58.01 | brlcad | nice to see that you have experience with both, that's certainly helpful |
| 02:01.36 | mafm | and OGRE too, but only playing with it for a few months |
| 02:01.58 | mafm | well, I haven't been actively using them for more than a year, so not sure about the advances |
| 02:02.41 | mafm | CS was more like a game engine, trying to integrate also sound, physics, GUI libraries and other things useful for most games |
| 02:02.53 | brlcad | having used all three, OGRE is a really strong contender to me -- and steve really has a great focus on the project that fits with what is needed |
| 02:03.31 | mafm | OSG was more like the state-of-the-art of open scene graphs, but other things for 3D applications had to be integrated |
| 02:04.01 | mafm | there are things like Delta3D trying to make a self-contained game engine with OSG as the principal component |
| 02:04.19 | mafm | and OGRE was something in between by the time, but also trying to get into the console market |
| 02:04.24 | brlcad | yeah, I looked into integrating OSG into OGRE as a scene graph manager, to get the best of both .. but there's a lot of cleanup needed to maintain that sort of integration |
| 02:04.57 | brlcad | yeah, we don't need/want a "game engine" really -- there are aspects of a CAD interface that are drasticly different |
| 02:05.03 | mafm | I think that OGRE is more close in spirit to OSG, with also one or more "game engine" wrappers |
| 02:05.21 | mafm | code-wise I think that OGRE and OSG are very good and better than CS |
| 02:05.37 | brlcad | like you can't/don't want to run the graphics update loop as fast as possible, many cad models are how many seconds per frame |
| 02:06.11 | mafm | :) |
| 02:06.27 | brlcad | I love the CS devs, but really don't want to deal with a left-handed coordinate system |
| 02:06.28 | mafm | but I don't know if they changed much lately |
| 02:06.31 | brlcad | z is up, dammit ;) |
| 02:06.57 | mafm | :D |
| 02:07.58 | mafm | hmm, I cannot find this info in the FAQs or anything -- currently who's running your project? some company? interested individuals only? foundation? |
| 02:08.28 | mafm | or still some army dept.? |
| 02:08.42 | brlcad | developed predominantly by interested individuals via open source and development is still funded by ARL too |
| 02:09.19 | brlcad | all as open source |
| 02:09.23 | mafm | and is it your 1st year at SoC? |
| 02:09.34 | brlcad | not my first year, but first year for brl-cad |
| 02:11.03 | mafm | ah |
| 02:11.22 | mafm | it's because the info is clear and very... explanatory? |
| 02:11.35 | brlcad | hm? |
| 02:12.17 | mafm | hmm, don't know how to say it |
| 02:12.40 | mafm | it's like... a very good impression for the students to see your site |
| 02:12.49 | brlcad | pues digalo en español :) |
| 02:12.59 | brlcad | ah, thanks |
| 02:13.12 | mafm | way better than many projects which already have been in past editions |
| 02:13.26 | mafm | :D |
| 02:13.49 | mafm | do you understand spanish? |
| 02:14.50 | brlcad | yes |
| 02:15.46 | mafm | are you from latin-america or something? :) |
| 02:16.37 | brlcad | getting rusty as the years go by, se me ha olvidado bastante .. but I used to be perfectly fluent, crecà en panamá |
| 02:18.25 | mafm | heh |
| 02:18.32 | mafm | not bad at all |
| 02:18.40 | mafm | you even put the accents |
| 02:19.35 | mafm | so in which projects were you mentor last/past years? |
| 02:19.51 | brlcad | i'm also the admin for bzflag |
| 02:21.16 | brlcad | we do more group mentoring than 1-1 (same for BRL-CAD) so everyone shares mentoring responsibilities regardless of who is assigned |
| 02:21.34 | mafm | ahm |
| 02:22.51 | mafm | btw, I was confuded several times with bzflag and brlcad because of the similar name and favicons of the webpages.. I bet that you copied it :P |
| 02:23.18 | brlcad | i share data between the two frequently :) |
| 02:23.39 | brlcad | tanks and tanks |
| 02:23.50 | brlcad | tanks for fun and tanks for real |
| 02:25.01 | mafm | is there any direct relationship between the two projects? like bzflag using brlcad libraries or so |
| 02:25.23 | brlcad | nope |
| 02:25.32 | brlcad | only direct relationship is my status with both |
| 02:26.30 | mafm | :) |
| 02:26.47 | brlcad | the rest of the dev teams really don't overlap |
| 02:27.20 | mafm | and as mentor of past years, do you notice some difference in the applications? I heard that there were less this year, I think that it was in #gsoc channel |
| 02:28.37 | brlcad | yeah, there is a massive difference this year |
| 02:29.18 | brlcad | which bodes well for those that get involved and submit before monday (especially if there's not an extension) |
| 02:31.43 | mafm | there was something about an extension in the channel topic, but they didn't say exactly how much |
| 02:32.19 | mafm | the only concrete fact that I saw was with X.org, that by yesterday they only had 1 application :D |
| 02:32.19 | brlcad | it entirely depends how many submissions there are by monday |
| 02:32.40 | mafm | my last years organization was no accepted this year, so I can't really compare |
| 02:33.01 | mafm | year's*, not* |
| 02:33.12 | brlcad | ahh |
| 02:34.17 | brlcad | that's a shame for aqsis |
| 02:34.40 | mafm | yep |
| 02:35.04 | mafm | and it's strange, considering that the two of us accepted finished successfully |
| 02:35.28 | mafm | and I think that the other candidate got a job at Dreamworks or something like that :) |
| 02:35.38 | brlcad | either the admins/mentors didn't do something well, outright made a major mistake, or simply just didn't make the cut |
| 02:35.47 | brlcad | leslie had a hell of a time with the cuts |
| 02:36.03 | brlcad | there were even more big-name orgs applying this year |
| 02:36.56 | mafm | cut means... where to draw the line for the ones accepted? |
| 02:38.31 | mafm | I think that my main mentor forgot to fill in necessary information in time at least once, and things like that |
| 02:38.40 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:38.54 | brlcad | ah, yeah.. that's a huge no no |
| 02:39.25 | brlcad | that's not only a failure of the mentor but of the org admin (and the org backup admin) |
| 02:41.29 | mafm | also after the first two weeks or so I spent more time with the backup mentor than with the supposed mentor :D |
| 02:42.05 | mafm | he said often that he was a disaster of a mentor |
| 02:42.07 | brlcad | interesting -- aqsis wasn't/isn't multithreaded? |
| 02:42.58 | mafm | wasn't and isn't, they didn't show much interest to integrate my branch after finishing |
| 02:43.08 | brlcad | hum, why is that? |
| 02:43.41 | mafm | I'm not really sure |
| 02:44.02 | brlcad | did you not work with their devs? |
| 02:44.39 | mafm | even when I was starting the project some of them (especially the leader) was already working in a branch which was supposed to tackle performance issues |
| 02:45.15 | mafm | so if that branch was to be merged my branch would be mostly obsolete |
| 02:45.32 | mafm | I think that they didn't get far with the branch after all |
| 02:45.33 | brlcad | who is the lead? |
| 02:45.40 | mafm | Paul Gregory |
| 02:46.19 | mafm | and I offered myself to integrate at least the parts of cleanup necessary for my project |
| 02:46.45 | mafm | eliminating unnecessary statics, globals and things like that |
| 02:47.19 | mafm | but they weren't very supportive and I started to work in other things |
| 02:48.00 | mafm | I'm still in their channel and in the mailing lists, but I don't follow the current activities very closely |
| 02:49.28 | brlcad | weren't supportive because of the other branch? communication problems? something else? |
| 02:49.55 | mafm | also there was a limitation to how many threads could take advantage of the available data |
| 02:50.38 | mafm | because of the design of many core parts of the renderer, that even my mentor in the last days was failing to understand |
| 02:51.48 | mafm | so the high-level design that he had in mind didn't fit with the way that the rendered worked |
| 02:52.22 | mafm | but well, I think that most of my code was worth if only for the cleanup, elimination of globals, const safeness |
| 02:52.49 | mafm | and the supportiveness that you ask, I'm not really sure, I never feel very comfortable in the channel |
| 02:53.17 | mafm | maybe communication problems, they're mostly people from UK who even have presential meetings very often |
| 02:54.39 | mafm | not that they were rude or anything, but I didn't feel as well as with other teammates and projects where I participate |
| 02:55.04 | brlcad | fair enough |
| 02:55.43 | brlcad | would be useful to hear abou the project from your mentor or the admin's perspective too, just to get a feel for what things might be like for us |
| 02:55.45 | mafm | this year I didn't even bother to send proposals to some projects because of that |
| 02:56.37 | mafm | hmm, well, they're often in #aqsis every day, or the working days at least |
| 02:56.48 | brlcad | i mean, it is water under the bridge -- history, but interesting to see how others are operating |
| 02:56.58 | mafm | the mentor was minty77 and the backup and leader prgregory |
| 02:58.12 | brlcad | thanks! |
| 02:58.13 | mafm | but minty77 is away most of the time and pgregory usually leaves at 16h UTC, so you might have to wake up early :) |
| 02:58.32 | mafm | maybe they have other times during weekends... |
| 02:59.19 | brlcad | not a big deal |
| 02:59.55 | brlcad | more important is your application on its own compared to the others we get, number of slots, etc |
| 02:59.58 | mafm | http://wiki.aqsis.org/dev/soc_multithreading |
| 03:00.12 | mafm | that's a summary and a detailed log at the bottom |
| 03:00.51 | brlcad | now if you were interested in doing something loosely related -- we do parallel quite wonderfully already, but distributed has long been a weakness |
| 03:01.41 | brlcad | we have a distributed rendering system, but it's all set up manually -- something like mpi would be interesting if made transparent |
| 03:02.33 | brlcad | or even a non-mpi approach, but something that's been talked about in the past |
| 03:03.48 | mafm | hmm |
| 03:04.03 | mafm | I'm still reading your acceptance docs with all this chatting |
| 03:04.10 | mafm | and it's 4am here :D |
| 03:04.30 | mafm | are you going to be around tomorrow? because at this time I don't think very clearly |
| 03:09.40 | brlcad | yep |
| 03:09.48 | brlcad | is here every day |
| 03:10.21 | brlcad | and barring meetings, food, and workouts, I'm almost on-line all day every day too |
| 03:11.07 | mafm | at what time do you get up, with UTC difference? :D |
| 03:11.27 | mafm | lives in UTC, very easy for him :P |
| 03:14.32 | brlcad | i literally have a random schedule |
| 03:15.05 | mafm | ok |
| 03:15.50 | mafm | I'll be back in around 12 hours or so, and then we can discuss more about the distributed thing, or otherwither the first idea :) |
| 03:16.11 | brlcad | just as common to find me at just about any time of day/night except maybe UTC 800-1200 .. being the closest to a sleeping window |
| 03:16.30 | mafm | :D |
| 03:16.45 | mafm | fine |
| 03:16.58 | mafm | so see you tomorrow then |
| 03:17.07 | mafm | good night all! |
| 03:17.08 | brlcad | whichever one you do decide on, looking forward to seeing it ;) |
| 03:17.11 | brlcad | cya |
| 03:21.22 | brlcad | likes the log idea |
| 03:36.47 | yukonbob | reads sb |
| 03:40.07 | brlcad | goes to get some food |
| 03:47.18 | yukonbob | good hunting |
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| 04:50.11 | starseeker | growls in frustration - the Rosin paper seems to have an equation for a and b that gives something related to the values I need but not the ACTUAL values I need |
| 04:50.39 | starseeker | Maxima and the C code now agree, but they're both not giving what I know I need. |
| 04:53.05 | CIA-33 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30595 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Equations now calculating something other than nan, and answers agree with Maxima's evaluation of the formula, but still not returning the original parameters |
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| 14:13.32 | mafm | hi |
| 14:16.39 | brlcad | howdy |
| 14:19.03 | mafm | up only for a brief while but already tired :) |
| 14:19.23 | mafm | and you? |
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| 14:37.46 | mafm | hi Elperion |
| 14:38.22 | Elperion | hi |
| 14:48.29 | mafm | brlcad: did you talk with aqsis people already? |
| 14:56.35 | brlcad | mafm: nope |
| 14:57.47 | brlcad | like I said last night, not a priority or driving decision factor in the least (you're held to your own merits with us, not them), might talk to them at some point just for some perspective |
| 14:58.06 | brlcad | not tired, been coding for hours :) |
| 14:59.56 | mafm | huh |
| 15:00.10 | mafm | I think that I need a coffee, too sleepy |
| 15:00.22 | mafm | Google, you're stealing my sleep! |
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| 18:47.16 | mafm | quiet in here today :) |
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| 20:02.36 | brlcad | mafm: yeah, it comes and goes -- depends who all is busy |
| 20:02.53 | brlcad | lot of the devs don't make it into irc, they lurk on the mailing list |
| 20:03.36 | alex_joni | brlcad: does that work ok? |
| 20:06.07 | brlcad | alex_joni: does what work ok? |
| 20:06.18 | alex_joni | that devels lurk only on the mailing list |
| 20:06.32 | alex_joni | I'm not sure I could do that.. |
| 20:07.14 | brlcad | you certainly don't have to :) |
| 20:07.23 | alex_joni | I'm quite fond of IRC and discussing things with fellow developers in real-time |
| 20:07.28 | brlcad | likewise |
| 20:07.33 | alex_joni | it's way nicer to argue over IRC than on the mailing list :D |
| 20:07.37 | brlcad | I tend to drag them into irc when I can |
| 20:20.54 | mafm | you evil being! :) |
| 20:21.32 | mafm | hmm, I have to go for a while (90 mins or so), but maybe when I'm back we can discuss about your distributed thing and I could make the proposal at last? |
| 20:29.40 | brlcad | sure |
| 20:33.28 | mafm | good |
| 20:33.47 | mafm | another night without sleeping properly, sounds thrilling :) |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | excellent |
| 20:36.00 | brlcad | there's plenty of time to sleep when you're dead :) |
| 20:36.11 | spike_ | hey guys |
| 20:36.27 | yukonbob | peeks in |
| 20:36.38 | spike_ | so i was looking into the blender converter for GSoC, but it seems like Collada would be way more useful |
| 20:36.49 | spike_ | that and blender is a very very weird app |
| 20:37.27 | mafm | the bad thing is that if you don't sleep too much when alive, you're most likely to get to the dead-sleep phase sooner :D |
| 20:38.14 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.200.134) | |
| 20:40.20 | spike_ | does anyone know much about collada? like the collada dom or fcollada library? |
| 20:41.20 | brlcad | a fair bit, what of it? |
| 20:42.30 | brlcad | spike_: any converter (or sets of converters) would be a valid project |
| 20:42.37 | brlcad | collada isn't already on the list? |
| 20:42.45 | spike_ | well i'm fairly new to it, was just curious what would be involved in writing something to convert its data into data brlcad can use |
| 20:43.30 | brlcad | it's a content format, not a solid modeling or CAD format so there are a variety of import issues, but it's not a hard converter to implement |
| 20:43.35 | spike_ | i figure none of the structs are compatable, so my job would be basically to create some temporary structs to grab the data from collada into a format that brlcad could understand |
| 20:43.47 | spike_ | yeah i didnt think so, since both or open source |
| 20:43.55 | spike_ | x3d would be hell imo |
| 20:44.22 | brlcad | nah, x3d is about the same |
| 20:44.34 | spike_ | interesting... |
| 20:44.41 | brlcad | x3d, vrml, collada -- all have a lot of overlap |
| 20:45.30 | spike_ | well i was looking on the wiki and it seems there are already apps to put a .blend into the collada format |
| 20:46.01 | spike_ | so i scratched the idea of a blender converter since this seemed more important |
| 20:47.34 | spike_ | for a proposal how in depth would i need to get? i dont know what else to specify besides the fact that i'd be writing a converter |
| 20:47.46 | brlcad | apps for blender? |
| 20:47.53 | brlcad | nobody has proposed that as an idea |
| 20:48.17 | brlcad | blender wouldn't be high on my list -- those are pretty much listed in order of priority |
| 20:48.26 | brlcad | s/priority/general usefulness/ |
| 20:48.31 | spike_ | yeah i noticed |
| 20:48.55 | brlcad | ah, collada is on the list |
| 20:49.01 | spike_ | yes its at the top somewhere |
| 20:49.22 | brlcad | yep, probably on par with x3d |
| 20:49.43 | spike_ | im trying to figure out what i'd want to specify on the proposal though; i mean i dont know too much about the collada format as of now but i would know it like the back of my hand if i were to try to work with it |
| 20:52.24 | brlcad | sure |
| 20:53.43 | spike_ | guess i'll just write up that then |
| 20:53.59 | alex_joni | brlcad: where's the list again? |
| 20:54.38 | alex_joni | n/m found it |
| 20:54.44 | spike_ | bbl guys |
| 20:55.43 | alex_joni | brlcad: oh, .u3d is even after blender :( |
| 21:10.12 | brlcad | mafm: for what it's worth, things are exceptionally different here with regards to project management |
| 21:10.59 | mafm | brlcad: sorry, I don't follow? |
| 21:11.25 | brlcad | process overhead, formalities |
| 21:11.53 | mafm | ah |
| 21:12.06 | mafm | you mean for the meeting or the timing issue with the branches? |
| 21:12.14 | brlcad | i mean in general |
| 21:14.33 | mafm | :) |
| 21:15.03 | mafm | the bureocracy isn't much in the project I think, but well |
| 21:15.24 | mafm | I think that each main devel was busy in some other branch during winter |
| 21:16.09 | mafm | so it's difficult to focus in the overall project if everybody is busy in their piece of terrain |
| 21:16.22 | mafm | it feels that the developement is a bit slow, I think |
| 21:18.48 | brlcad | well that can happen in any project |
| 21:18.57 | brlcad | devs tend to focus on their niche |
| 21:19.03 | brlcad | or a given interest |
| 21:19.25 | brlcad | especially when there is so much to do and only so many devs/time to do it |
| 21:27.42 | pacman87 | is there a general interface/container for access to primitive functions (the g_*.c files) |
| 21:28.33 | pacman87 | so you can call rt_*_shot() without knowing what the * is? |
| 21:29.32 | mafm | brlcad: :) |
| 21:29.43 | mafm | ok, still heading home now, be back in 1h or so... |
| 21:32.01 | mafm | later! |
| 21:39.24 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130) | |
| 21:55.59 | hippieindamakin8 | hey guys |
| 21:56.04 | hippieindamakin8 | hello brlcad |
| 21:58.56 | brlcad | hello |
| 22:00.16 | hippieindamakin8 | how many applications have you recieved so far ? |
| 22:04.16 | pacman87 | add one to that number (just hit submit on mine) ;) |
| 22:04.45 | yukonbob | 1 meeeellion applications |
| 22:04.59 | pacman87 | brlcad: is there a general interface/container for access to primitive functions (the g_*.c files), so you can call rt_*_shot() without knowing what the * is? |
| 22:06.05 | pacman87 | yukonbob: do you have an "off by .99999e6 error"? |
| 22:06.43 | brlcad | hippieindamakin8: i've told you several times now to stop worrying about that |
| 22:06.48 | brlcad | worry about your submission |
| 22:06.58 | brlcad | pacman87: cool |
| 22:07.00 | brlcad | looks |
| 22:07.02 | hippieindamakin8 | :) i have 3 deadlines tommorow :( |
| 22:07.42 | hippieindamakin8 | made a running dog robot as a term project |
| 22:21.32 | hippieindamakin8 | hey brlcad i would also suggest another idea |
| 22:22.01 | brlcad | competition is going to be pretty tough from the looks of things, even with low submission rates |
| 22:22.02 | hippieindamakin8 | it would be better if u have one interface rather than having 2 of them .. |
| 22:22.36 | hippieindamakin8 | smthing like kate or dolphin with kde 4.0 |
| 22:22.49 | brlcad | given I don't think we'll accept more than 2-4 students |
| 22:23.05 | hippieindamakin8 | u have a drafting space in the upper frame and a terminal in the lower frame of the UI |
| 22:23.29 | hippieindamakin8 | oh yeah u said that before.. |
| 22:24.08 | hippieindamakin8 | well i just returned from my lab :P and was worried about my grades a bit too :D and hence put that question.. nvm |
| 22:30.49 | *** join/#brlcad spike_ (i=[U2FsdGV@centaur.acm.jhu.edu) | |
| 22:34.55 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
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| 22:35.30 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
| 22:45.00 | *** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:53.13 | hippieindamakin8 | hey daytona |
| 22:53.43 | Daytona | hi |
| 22:54.18 | brlcad | howdy Daytona |
| 22:54.34 | brlcad | happy super fun sunday to you |
| 22:54.35 | Daytona | hello |
| 22:54.54 | Daytona | super fun?? |
| 22:55.00 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:58.06 | Daytona | brlcad: just to keep you informed, I have a week in Daytona Beach scheduled (leaving on April 11) |
| 22:58.59 | Daytona | If there is no extension for GSoc applications, that should work fine |
| 22:59.23 | Daytona | but if there is an extension, I think it might interfere a bit |
| 23:01.03 | brlcad | no problem |
| 23:01.26 | brlcad | the biggest step will be ranking the applications once that opens up |
| 23:01.38 | Daytona | I think April 11 is the mentor assignment deadline |
| 23:01.38 | brlcad | just to see what people are willing to mentor |
| 23:01.50 | brlcad | as I cannot actually assign mentors, you have to say "I'm willing to mentor this" |
| 23:02.11 | brlcad | and then the actual scoring to narrow down selections |
| 23:02.30 | Daytona | OK, I can probably access the internet from the beach :-) |
| 23:02.42 | brlcad | hopefully we can narrow down selections on monday regardless of any extension |
| 23:03.15 | Daytona | Yes, I expect all serious applicants will be in by then |
| 23:03.18 | brlcad | with only 2-4 slots, and the few on the mailing list that haven't submitted yet, there's probably 2-4 good candidates that could be chosen regardless of an extension |
| 23:04.14 | Daytona | When do you find out how many slots we get? |
| 23:05.03 | brlcad | april 14th |
| 23:06.07 | Daytona | Oh.., so we score, select, assign mentors, then find out how many? |
| 23:06.18 | brlcad | yes |
| 23:06.35 | brlcad | we place an upper limit / desired count on the slots, then rank them all numerically |
| 23:06.58 | brlcad | then we get something at or below our requested count |
| 23:07.30 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@89-180-70-135.net.novis.pt) | |
| 23:07.40 | mafm | hi |
| 23:07.41 | brlcad | so depending how we rank and who all is willing to mentor what, I see requesting either 3 or 4, then we likely get anywhere from 2-4 |
| 23:07.51 | brlcad | hello mafm |
| 23:07.55 | Daytona | OK |
| 23:08.27 | Daytona | hi, mafm |
| 23:09.45 | brlcad | nice to see a stronger submissions finally get added |
| 23:10.51 | yukonbob | when is the ranked-list due to Google? |
| 23:11.26 | Daytona | yes, I hadn't seen the latest till just now |
| 23:12.29 | brlcad | by this time last year, we would have been looking at 15 like that .. that's what everyone is concerned about with the deadline :) |
| 23:12.44 | brlcad | yukonbob: by the 11th |
| 23:16.03 | yukonbob | is "negative object segment detection" that bug manifested in my hub rendering? |
| 23:16.05 | mafm | concerned about the lack of applications? |
| 23:16.42 | brlcad | not really |
| 23:16.52 | brlcad | it's just drastically different |
| 23:17.10 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeppers it sure is |
| 23:17.30 | brlcad | nice that you keyed on it :) |
| 23:17.54 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 23:18.12 | brlcad | nobody proposing it so far though |
| 23:18.24 | yukonbob | gah!!! I need to start a campaign!! |
| 23:18.37 | yukonbob | (or do it myself out of the GSoC context) |
| 23:18.42 | Daytona | brlcad: is that the bug that you and I have discussed several times, regarding boolweave? |
| 23:18.45 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:19.06 | brlcad | probably could be better-worded, but nobody would likely understand "fix boolweave" :) |
| 23:19.38 | yukonbob | waves to Daytona |
| 23:19.53 | yukonbob | I don't see you in #brlcad often (that I know of), but see your commit msgs :) |
| 23:19.53 | Daytona | hi, yukonbob |
| 23:20.32 | Daytona | I haven't been here much, but trying to be here a bit more to listen to GSoC discussions |
| 23:21.08 | brlcad | thinks Daytona should try out screen :) |
| 23:21.30 | brlcad | screen+irssi ftw |
| 23:21.41 | Daytona | I thought you would be impressed that I moved up to irssi :-) |
| 23:21.47 | brlcad | is :) |
| 23:22.34 | Daytona | I'll give it a try during a quiet time |
| 23:23.13 | brlcad | you basically run it on/from a machine that isn't powered off and it provides a persistent connection that you can detach from and reattach to easily |
| 23:24.00 | brlcad | screen .. then run irssi -- ctrl-a d to detach, screen -r to reattach |
| 23:24.24 | Daytona | What I would like is to get irssi to beep when my nick is used |
| 23:24.45 | brlcad | does it already hilight at least? |
| 23:24.50 | Daytona | I found someone's settings to do that, but it doesn't work |
| 23:25.04 | brlcad | you can set hilights with /hilight keyword |
| 23:25.05 | Daytona | Yeah, I changed the hilight color |
| 23:25.37 | brlcad | then /last -hilight to see the last hilights |
| 23:26.23 | brlcad | should work with /set bell_beeps ON |
| 23:26.46 | Daytona | is on |
| 23:26.53 | yukonbob | "beeps" are a function of irssi settings combined with screen settings combined with terminal settings -- not always easy to setup :P |
| 23:27.02 | brlcad | then of course depending on your terminal allowing audible bell |
| 23:27.49 | brlcad | what does /set beep_msg_level report? |
| 23:28.12 | Daytona | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.40 | brlcad | huh, it actually has an equal? |
| 23:28.46 | brlcad | shouldn't |
| 23:29.05 | Daytona | That is the setting that someone claimed would do the beeping I wanted |
| 23:29.07 | brlcad | shouldn't matter I'd think, but maybe causing a problem |
| 23:29.26 | brlcad | try just: /set beep_msg_level MSGS NOTICES DCC DCCMSGS HILIGHT |
| 23:29.51 | brlcad | Daytona: then see if this hilights |
| 23:29.52 | mafm | does your terminal beep really? :) |
| 23:30.15 | brlcad | in screen, it'll generate a wuff wuff message by default |
| 23:30.44 | yukonbob | ^A-g will toggle between visual/audible beep |
| 23:30.53 | Daytona | LOL, ^G does not beep in my terminal :-) |
| 23:31.10 | yukonbob | rather: ^A-^G will toggle between visual/audible beep |
| 23:31.32 | brlcad | irssi probably captures it |
| 23:31.39 | brlcad | yukonbob: heh, thx |
| 23:32.01 | yukonbob | and in irssi "/beep" will send a beep to the channel |
| 23:32.11 | brlcad | ah, good test |
| 23:32.15 | yukonbob | (like I've been doing here a couple times... and one more for good measure) |
| 23:32.29 | Daytona | no beeps heard here |
| 23:32.40 | yukonbob | (I just sent 3) |
| 23:32.53 | brlcad | maybe your terminal isn't doing anything with bells |
| 23:33.29 | Daytona | looks like "terminal bell: is enabled |
| 23:34.27 | Daytona | Oh well, no big deal |
| 23:34.30 | brlcad | hum |
| 23:34.39 | brlcad | which terminal? |
| 23:35.04 | yukonbob | Daytona: are you on a Mac? |
| 23:35.17 | Daytona | no, I dell laptop |
| 23:35.22 | Daytona | running ubuntu |
| 23:35.54 | yukonbob | xterm, or variant? |
| 23:35.57 | Daytona | running gnome-terminal |
| 23:36.43 | yukonbob | sends 3 more beeps, heads back to report writing for a bit |
| 23:36.52 | yukonbob | (ciao, folks, chat later) :) |
| 23:37.02 | Daytona | bye yukonbob |
| 23:37.23 | mafm | gnome-terminal? uh, probably they won't let you to configure that |
| 23:37.36 | mafm | it's too dangerous for users to mess with those things :) |
| 23:37.51 | mafm | bye yukonbob |
| 23:37.59 | hippieindamakin8 | u can configure gnome terminal |
| 23:39.47 | Daytona | I see a profile editor, and "terminal bell" is enabled |
| 23:41.21 | hippieindamakin8 | i love the terminal bell :D |
| 23:43.15 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=pulse@189.71.62.248) | |
| 23:43.19 | hippieindamakin8 | ppl on Gnome use "Tilda" and the ppl on KDE use "yakuake" :) |
| 23:43.34 | andrecastelo | hi |
| 23:43.48 | hippieindamakin8 | hey andrecastelo |
| 23:43.52 | andrecastelo | hey hippieindamakin8i |
| 23:44.07 | andrecastelo | is photon mapping an option for gsoc ?? |
| 23:44.15 | brlcad | wonders if /etc/input has anything interesting for Daytona |
| 23:44.26 | Daytona | I just checked, and there is a bug report titled "terminal bell does not beep" in ununtu :-) |
| 23:44.41 | brlcad | andrecastelo: "global illumination" whether via photon mapping or otherwise is an option |
| 23:44.43 | mafm | hey andrecastelo, I see that you're following my advice :) |
| 23:44.56 | andrecastelo | hehehe hey mafm, yes indeed |
| 23:45.12 | brlcad | we actually already have an implementation of photon mapping, but it's shoehorned in and really hard to use (and buggy) |
| 23:45.30 | mafm | should get extra points for bringing more people to BRL-CAD :P |
| 23:46.03 | andrecastelo | brlcad: is fixing it and making it more functional a gsoc apropriate project?? :) |
| 23:46.23 | andrecastelo | (maybe it's almost functional, so wouldn't be 3 months thing) |
| 23:47.00 | brlcad | sure would be, as would be enhancing it .. non-trivial |
| 23:47.24 | brlcad | likewise, implementing a new global illumination renderer that does it's own path-tracing using our librt |
| 23:48.10 | brlcad | would have to show competence in that area and come up with a good proposal |
| 23:50.54 | andrecastelo | brlcad: well, i don't have experience in that area, perhaps i should look for another project |
| 23:51.20 | andrecastelo | (but i do have some understanding about global illumination and photon mapping and the motivation to study it deeper) |
| 23:52.38 | brlcad | andrecastelo: that would make things a lot harder -- there is definitely room to learn some of what is needed, but implementing either would take some time |
| 23:53.43 | brlcad | a lot of the high-level background info about path tracing or photon mapping or radiosity, etc, can be picked up in an afternoon of reading |
| 23:54.05 | andrecastelo | but the implementation is the problem, right ??? |
| 23:54.20 | brlcad | depends entirely on you and how quickly you learn :) |
| 23:55.20 | andrecastelo | it's comforting to know that :) |
| 23:55.50 | andrecastelo | the photon mapping implementation is written in C ? |
| 23:56.57 | brlcad | *completing* the task isn't the driving factor for acceptance if you intended to work long-term on the project (beyond gsoc), but you would have to instill confidence that you can in fact complete the task and make good progress over the summer |
| 23:57.04 | brlcad | yes, entirely in C |
| 23:58.56 | brlcad | src/liboptical/photonmap.c and src/rt have most of it |