IRC log for #brlcad on 20080423

00:54.44 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo_ (n=chatzill@189.71.37.27)
01:00.16 andrecastelo_ andrecastelo: drop it already!!
03:31.35 *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:45.37 starseeker_home ``Erik, adrt is busted - complaint about SIGINFO being undeclared
04:40.18 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30790 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add second test extrusion, tweak help command behavior (switch back to a plain tire command generating default tire in tire.g)
07:04.40 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:14.59 brlcad yawns
07:16.12 clock_ brlcad: I haven't shown my latest 3D creation
07:16.21 clock_ brlcad: you know what a space frame is?
07:17.25 brlcad sure, it hangs on a wall and holds a pretty picture of space
07:17.32 clock_ no :)
07:18.05 clock_ It's like you want a stiff and light construction of a body so you fill the body basically with tetrahedra made of sticks and that's how Stansted Airport is built and also looks like those constructions on satellites
07:18.09 clock_ I made a space frame CRT holder
07:18.50 clock_ http://images.twibright.com/tns/21a9.html
07:18.54 clock_ I want to open source it
07:19.34 clock_ For 21'' CRT. I bought a 21'' CRT for 20$ fully functional great picture because I like the picture it has better colours and better black level than LCD also faster reaction and more even picture surface
07:19.59 clock_ But it's big and 30kg that's why I had to make a wall holder because it couldn't fit on a desk.
07:21.22 brlcad heh
07:21.43 brlcad kinda frankenteinish joint welding there
07:23.24 brlcad i'd expect the weak points wouldn't be the frame itself but the connections on the wall
07:23.26 clock_ lol yeah can you weld better?
07:23.39 clock_ like the plugs could get ripped off the wall?
07:23.55 brlcad yep
07:24.09 clock_ my father once installed an antenna on plugs like that and it got ripped off by a wind
07:24.22 clock_ But a properly installed plug holds like hell
07:24.43 clock_ you have a prescribed hole diameter and screw diameter and length
07:24.49 clock_ I held to all these parameters
07:25.05 clock_ it's half inch holes 70mm deep
07:25.24 brlcad it's one of those things though, that you never really know until you apply enough pressure to find the breaking point, but by then it's too late :)
07:25.41 clock_ but what should break, the brick?
07:26.01 clock_ and the holder has like a big base that means the moment is not large
07:26.14 clock_ if the plugs were close the prying action would be much stronger
07:26.16 brlcad the brick, the connection to the brick
07:26.32 clock_ frankensteinish welding haha I wanted to make sure it's not the welds that break
07:26.41 brlcad can you hang from it?
07:26.57 clock_ I did a similar holder for Ronja and there I could hang from it
07:27.04 clock_ the base and the plugs were the same size
07:27.40 clock_ I weight 75kg
07:27.50 brlcad if you can provide about 5x the load and it easily holds, then sustaining a 30kg load shouldn't be too bad
07:27.52 clock_ The Ronja weights max. 15kg and the monitor 30kg
07:28.30 clock_ and it's clever made 2 plugs for tension and 1 for compression
07:28.41 clock_ if it were the other way the rating would be half because the tension is critical
07:50.07 brlcad <PROTECTED>
07:50.10 brlcad <PROTECTED>
07:50.13 brlcad hehe
08:25.00 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30791 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/main.c: make sure SIGUSR1 and SIGINFO are available first
08:46.14 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-218.pools.arcor-ip.net)
10:05.01 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:07.36 mafm hi
10:08.10 clock_ brlcad: what's a penguinista cad do you mean BRL-CAD?
10:09.31 mafm BRL-CAD -- the penguinista CAD! at least it'll be Cool!
10:29.11 brlcad mafm: heh
10:29.55 brlcad clock_: it was someone's comment about the army releaseing brlc-ad as open source
10:35.07 clock_ I don't think penguinista cad is cool for me it sounds infantile
10:35.15 clock_ BRL-CAD is a child of the army
10:36.51 mafm :P
10:38.03 mafm I guess that the -ista end has something to do with common names given in latin-american countries to movements
10:38.30 mafm apart from that, I was only joking with "penguin - cool" :P
10:38.45 brlcad found the vader comment more funny
10:39.00 brlcad "it's kind of like darth vader bringing you cookies and a birthday present."
10:39.15 mafm where's that comment?
10:39.26 brlcad it was in a channel log elsewhere
10:39.33 brlcad just someone chatting briefly about brl-cad
10:39.37 mafm or what's referring to, to BRL-CAD as well? :D
10:39.47 mafm it's funny yep
10:40.06 brlcad that having the army/gov release brl-cad as open source was kinda like that :)
10:40.27 mafm May the Source Be with You!
10:40.40 brlcad Use the Source, Luke!
10:40.58 mafm btw reading wikipedia I found that ENIAC was also developed at/for BRL
10:41.06 brlcad yep
10:42.31 mafm crazy army
10:42.56 mafm it's starts like that, and it ends in teens showing boobs in the intertubez!
10:43.28 clock_ I want army boys showing their muscled bodies!
10:43.44 clock_ brlcad: do you have a muscled body?
10:44.01 brlcad no comment
10:44.05 mafm :D
10:44.24 brlcad the intarwebs caters to everyone ;)
10:45.06 mafm I mean that it's funny how inventions turn to be used for completely unexpected things
10:45.22 mafm that probably the creators are against
10:45.36 brlcad yeah usually :)
10:46.20 mafm there was a series of old documentaries of BBC with similar theme, called Connections
10:47.48 clock_ You know how to solve rape by soldiers?
10:48.05 mafm hmm?
10:48.05 clock_ Make all soldiers to train their bodies so attractive that all the rape becomes consensual sex!
10:48.55 mafm no need to go that far, somebody already invented the "gay bomb"
10:49.06 clock_ thats?
10:49.21 mafm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
10:49.45 mafm you release the bomb and soldiers start "loving" each other
10:51.27 clock_ Acetamidohexanoyl]amino}-9-benzyl- 6-(3-carbamimidamidopropyl)-12- (1H-imidazol-5-ylmethyl)-3-(1H-indol- 3-ylmethyl)-2,5,8,11,14,17-hexaoxo- 1,4,7,10,13,18-hexaazacyclotricosane -23-carboxylic acid
10:53.13 mafm hey, that's patented information, you punk!
11:11.28 mafm brlcad: UTC (+ 1 now, summer time) :D
11:36.29 brlcad noticed :)
12:24.15 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.68.185)
12:24.29 andrecastelo good morning everyone
12:24.39 andrecastelo hey brlcad , ``Erik :D
12:24.42 andrecastelo sup mafm, congratulations :D
12:25.04 mafm morning andrecastelo
12:25.08 mafm same for you
12:25.09 brlcad howdy andrecastelo, g'morning :)
12:25.32 mafm andrecastelo: now I want 10% of your payments, I'm a good adviser :P
12:25.53 andrecastelo mafm: yep, thanks indeed :D
12:27.54 brlcad heh
12:28.04 brlcad oh, mafm .. i have something for you
12:28.13 brlcad uploads
12:28.49 mafm scared
12:32.07 brlcad do you have keynote?
12:33.13 mafm don't even know what's that
12:33.44 brlcad what OS do you work on?
12:33.50 mafm Debian
12:34.33 brlcad ah, okay
12:38.51 mafm so?
12:39.29 brlcad trying to find the version that has the explanation audio
12:40.29 brlcad basically, it's by one of the other cad devs as a prototype design for a new graphical integrated operating environment
12:41.19 brlcad he prepared a tutorial presentation that walks through a brief interaction example -- it's not specific to CAD, but most of the interaction aspects and basic structure are still relevant
12:41.23 brlcad http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto.html
12:41.31 starseeker_home grabs adrt fix and resumes building...
12:41.45 brlcad retags before people start committing again
12:42.35 starseeker_home never fails, does it - make a tag and the floodgates open...
12:44.31 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30792 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-2/: (re)tag the 7.12.2 release
12:46.55 clock_ brlcad: GUI with an audio help?
12:47.10 brlcad explains the driving concepts
12:47.30 brlcad it's pretty intuitive as it is, but there are some fundamental differences
12:47.55 clock_ what about deaf people and people who have no audio output?
12:48.34 mafm brlcad: it's some presentation to make a flier, or Konqueror is making strange things?
12:49.00 brlcad mafm: neither
12:49.27 brlcad it's an *interaction* example .. ignore the particular task example
12:50.00 mafm I can't hear anything btw, maybe I should try firefox
12:51.22 brlcad there is no audio in that version
12:51.33 brlcad that was my point .. i was trying to find a version that had audio
12:52.12 brlcad otherwise, you can get a feel for it from each of the slides alone
12:52.43 mafm oh, I thought that you had found the version with audio
13:07.17 mafm so it's an example of what a GUI could do for a CAD program
13:07.35 mafm is that from a Mac? :)
13:08.04 brlcad it's an example of a GUI for really any working environment
13:08.46 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo_ (n=chatzill@189.71.68.185)
13:08.49 brlcad it has many concepts that have fundamental usability implications
13:09.49 mafm wb andrecastelo_
13:10.32 mafm the GUI is very clean, I like it
13:11.34 brlcad it's a prototype that I'd really like to explore as a foundation for a new gui interface
13:12.13 brlcad it gives several ideas for development directions, particularly w.r.t interaction
13:14.52 brlcad yay, found audio version
13:21.43 brlcad mafm: http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov
13:22.53 brlcad there is another version also uploaded that has some guided interaction if you are intereste
13:24.06 brlcad it's about 17 minutes long with two or three interaction scenarios
13:25.43 mafm goody
13:31.02 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487569D.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:31.52 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
13:34.58 mafm I think I'd better start putting this things in a wiki page
13:35.25 mafm shoul I create it somewhere specifically, or with some namespace or what?
13:35.45 brlcad hm
13:36.22 brlcad well if you didn't see the note yesterday, one of the first steps is to get all of you guys to migrate your proposals to a (non-user) wiki page as a design document
13:36.35 brlcad without the personal information, not in first person, etc
13:36.58 mafm yes, I saw that
13:37.01 brlcad for the gui concepts of IOE, you could have that as part of the design document or in a section by itself I'd think
13:37.09 brlcad what do you think?
13:37.32 mafm but I'm not very familiar with mediawiki, and I don't know exactly what a personal page is, etc
13:37.52 mafm also I think that mediawiki can work with namespaces but you seem to use a plain structure
13:38.07 brlcad every user has a User:username wiki page
13:41.37 brlcad http://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Listusers
13:42.33 brlcad ours are mostly unused, but just adding that caveat "just in case" .. welcome to put any progress/updates/info on your user page though
13:42.44 brlcad in fact I'll be sending a note out later about that
13:49.02 mafm all of you have it mostly empty, yep :)
13:51.01 mafm so for the Project wiki page, any special namespace or convention?
13:52.18 PrezKennedy i didnt know you were a bureaucrat brlcad
13:52.36 mafm btw, I see some Remi in your wiki but not in the SourceForge site?
13:53.20 brlcad mafm: there's a template you can add, but otherwise no particular convention
13:53.31 brlcad Remi?
13:55.05 mafm it's one example...
13:55.26 mafm I mean if there should be some coordination between those listings
13:55.55 mafm "Remi" name caught my attention because I knew a guy called like that
13:57.19 brlcad what sourceforge listing are you referring to?
13:58.55 mafm http://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=105292
14:03.11 brlcad ah, the sf.net users .. yeah, those are totally separate systems
14:03.38 brlcad only way to really coordinate them would be for users that register on the site to use their sf.net name (which they're perfectly able to do now)
14:03.54 brlcad but it still wouldn't coordinate passwords or anything
14:04.22 *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
14:05.42 mafm yes, I know... anyway my perfectly unrememberable username is usually available in most places
14:06.04 mafm so I tend to have same acronym everywhere :)
14:06.15 brlcad it's pretty memorable to me :)
14:07.07 *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
14:07.21 mafm so maybe you're more acronym-capable than my workmates
14:07.25 andrecastelo_ brlcad: we should add our applications to the wiki and link to them from http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents ?
14:07.31 mafm they can't remember my mail address ever
14:09.06 *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
14:18.00 brlcad mafm: here's the template you can add: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Template:DesignDocument
14:19.03 brlcad andrecastelo_: yeah, please do
14:23.42 ``Erik doh, conflict, brlcad went and fixed it up before I got to it
14:24.08 brlcad heh
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14:49.26 andrecastelo_ brlcad, ``Erik : http://brlcad.org/wiki/Metropolis_Light_Transport
14:50.17 clock_ Hehe Metropolis is a name of Ronja model
14:51.10 clock_ And Ronja works on the pronciple of light transport ;-)
14:52.15 ``Erik reads MLT wiki page
14:52.30 ``Erik um
14:52.44 ``Erik andre, have you ever modelled in BRL-CAD before?
14:53.01 ``Erik thinks a cornell box might be useful for MLT testing
14:53.26 ``Erik and a good thing to have in db/
14:53.42 andrecastelo_ ``Erik: i tried once but to no success
14:54.14 andrecastelo_ ``Erik: i agree, it might be really useful for testing
14:55.02 ``Erik how about this, if you have a few minutes, dig up the exact measurements of the cornell box and give modelling it a shot, if you get stuck, just ask us :D otherwise, I'll eventually get around to doing it O.o
14:55.48 andrecastelo_ ok, i'll give it a shot :D
14:58.11 ``Erik given that it's extremely simple, has published accurate details, and still hits on several key newbie issues of BRL-CAD (regions, combinations, materials), I imagine it's a good place to start :)
14:58.32 ``Erik opposed to, say, a pen or toy mustang O.o :D
15:07.07 clock_ model the saint pauls cathedral
15:07.23 clock_ then you realize how unfinished the user interface is
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15:13.35 brlcad there's a cornell box in the distribution
15:13.41 brlcad db/cornell.g
15:14.16 brlcad not certain that it's actually accurate/correct, but it's there
15:19.08 andrecastelo_ well, at first look the geometry looks right.. and the distances seem to match http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/data.html
15:23.01 clock_ brlcad: actually, the Volume II discusses modelling goblet
15:23.13 clock_ without actually giving in any determinate dimensions
15:23.30 clock_ I think that's a very simple example and doesn't teaches much of what one really needs for serious work
15:24.01 clock_ Like all I do is entered exact numbers and complicated geomtry where things must perfectly match not just somehow overlap on the screen
15:39.57 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30793 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add more shapes for prototype tread.
15:40.31 brlcad clock_: what does that have to do with cornell.g ?
15:43.34 clock_ brlcad: nothing
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17:18.25 ``Erik heh, when did that get in there? there're a couple I don't remember O.o
17:18.49 ``Erik weird, '00, guess I just missed it
17:19.09 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30794 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Mods to have the image location be returned as values between 0 and width or height minus 1. So if the width is 512, the range of values returned will be [0, 511].
17:32.34 mafm hmm, I noticed that my mentor changed suddently?
17:46.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30795 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_wgl.c:
17:46.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: Mods to allow the user to query the pixel location and color. Also added code to
17:46.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: constrain the queried pixel location to values between 0 and the width or height
17:46.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: minus 1. For example, if the height is 512 the range of values for y would be
17:46.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 0-511.
17:55.20 mafm bye
17:57.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30796 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/config_win.h include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_log.c): If _WIN32, use bu_log in place of fb_log. This can easily revert back if/when fb_log becomes as flexible as bu_log.
18:00.36 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-110-144.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:12.38 *** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-199-123.uchicago.edu)
18:41.02 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:42.11 brlcad howdy jdoliner
18:49.53 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30797 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): source tarballs are uploaded, bump patch revision
18:52.07 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30798 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: clone and incr on the docket
20:23.19 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30799 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
20:23.19 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: talked to applin for a while and got some additional history. it's not clear
20:23.19 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: that earl actually wrote any code, but did contribute to algorithms and docs.
20:23.19 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: likewise, applin coded around 1982 (sometime before March 1983) before the code
20:23.19 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: was under revision control and then stopped shortly after (circa 1984/1985) so
20:23.21 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: he was BRL-only.
20:28.37 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30800 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
20:28.38 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: note that it first went into RCS in april 1984, but applin reminded me to check
20:28.38 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: out the original GED tech report (GED: AN INTERACTIVE SOLID MODELING SYSTEM FOR
20:28.38 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: VULNERABILITY ASSESSMENTS - ARBRL-TR-02480 - published March 1983) which indeed
20:28.38 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: did have additional tidbits. It says development began in 1980 and that ged
20:28.40 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: went into production use in January 1982.
20:30.15 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30801 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: earl weaver was there at the beginning, mark 1980 as start year
20:30.18 ``Erik hrm, it's too bad the early history isn't better preserved... jove in '83, then rt in '84 :/
20:31.25 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30802 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: gary kuehl was a BRLer
20:32.45 brlcad yeah, keith was saying it was all managed manually, they'd give their snippets to mike, he'd rewrite them and organize
20:33.01 brlcad keith stopped coding shortly after it went into rcs
20:39.30 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30803 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Misc. cleanup and comments, added tread pattern count and tread depth as options.
20:39.32 andrecastelo_ since when do you guys code for brl-cad ?
20:40.01 brlcad andrecastelo_: this year makes 10 years for me
20:40.44 brlcad but the project has certainly been going for quite a bit longer of course ;)
20:41.15 andrecastelo_ interesting! :D so you work in/with the u.s. army ?
20:43.20 brlcad cool, I see you got the wiki page updated
20:44.04 andrecastelo_ yup, also made some improvements in the readability of the proposal
20:44.25 andrecastelo_ as in - moved some stuff from timeline to implementation
20:44.31 andrecastelo_ i think it is more clear this way
20:45.23 brlcad cool, have to read through it again
20:50.27 brlcad isn't sure you actually need the phong model with MLT, GI kinda takes over
20:53.37 andrecastelo_ the idea was to use the phong model to handle the reflection but i'm also not sure
20:54.14 brlcad that could get tricky
20:54.28 brlcad liboptical assumes it's doing things a certain way
20:54.36 brlcad you might be able to avoid liboptical entirely
20:56.25 andrecastelo_ what about Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Functions?
20:58.47 andrecastelo_ could they work ?
21:06.40 brlcad phong is a brdf
21:06.49 brlcad it's a simple algorithm
21:08.51 ``Erik the phong song
21:13.11 ``Erik wonders if he gets to count his years haetus on "that damn project" towards his count O.o
21:15.08 ``Erik hiatus, damn my splling
21:19.11 andrecastelo_ brlcad: didn't know that.. but isn't phong exclusively for specular lighting ?
21:28.00 brlcad andrecastelo_: nope, ambient + specular + diffuse components
21:28.19 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading
21:28.56 brlcad but how phong comes into play with a global illumination renderer and/or MLT is a different issue
21:30.30 andrecastelo_ why's that? i thought we could use phong in a ray_hit() function, to decide where to shoot the next ray
21:49.19 andrecastelo_ hey, regarding development procedures, how will it happen? patches will be sent in a time to time basis, will we work in a separate branch or in the trunk??
21:52.02 brlcad trunk ftw!
21:52.22 brlcad part of gsoc is learning to coordinate with the other devs as a new full-fledged dev ;)
21:52.48 brlcad so a few small patches for the first few changes with your mentor and when they give me a thumbs up, you start committing directly
21:53.29 CIA-20 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30804 10/brlcad/branches/unlabeled-2.5.1/: i don't wanna look at it and neither does bob. and given E/ev have been rewritten several times, this original code probably just isn't worth it
21:53.54 brlcad so if you did little patches now, you could/should have commit access even before gsoc coding begins
21:55.57 andrecastelo_ cool :D there are some projects that gives the branch for the student to work on and never joins it back together
21:56.43 andrecastelo_ speaking of patches, what about the center point one, did you manage to take a look to see if everything is ok and etc ?
22:54.31 ``Erik hiatus, damn my splling
22:54.42 ``Erik woops

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