IRC log for #brlcad on 20080507

00:14.50 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31011 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 8 dirs):
00:14.50 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: this renames the wdb_binary / dbbinary mged command to just 'binary' .. this
00:14.50 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: seems to be what it is actually used in archer already, what makes more sense,
00:14.50 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: and is more consistent with other commands. happened to fix a mistake in the
00:14.50 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: html docs in the process. also updated the command's help so that it's less
00:14.53 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: brain dead wrong in response to tom browder's sf bug 1532699 (dbbinary -o help
00:14.55 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: is misleading)
01:09.06 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:21.05 yukonbob waves in..
01:36.55 brlcad howdy yukonbob :)
01:37.02 brlcad clears out some bug reports
01:42.07 starseeker_ finally gets the docbook toolchain to do his bidding...
01:42.15 louipc hooray x2
01:44.28 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31012 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: try to prevent -Lyes/lib64 -Iyes/include etc from happening if the user only provides --with-jdk or --with-java without a path.
01:54.42 brlcad woot, only three left before the bugs are back down to just one page!
02:06.09 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31013 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/solids.sh: don't need to refer to $1/regress, just use the files
02:06.30 brlcad two..
02:08.45 brlcad one more!
02:12.00 brlcad woot!
02:28.35 starseeker_ wow.
02:28.52 starseeker_ checks in disbelief...
02:29.45 starseeker_ #define state_of_jaw "dropped"
02:33.27 starseeker_ nice job!
02:35.47 brlcad has since cleared about a half dozen others .. down to only 42 open bugs woo hoo :-)
02:41.45 yukonbob updates svn co, gets ready to do some (unrelated to BRL-CAD) Tcl work
02:52.02 brlcad nice to see the bug list actually decrease for once .. didn't realize how many issues got fixed with the latest 7.12
02:52.23 brlcad down to about 40 now, few more that might be fixed but need investigating
02:53.09 yukonbob is the dsp still on the list?
02:53.27 brlcad thinks he needs to host a BRL-CAD Bug Zapper
02:53.44 brlcad yeah :(
02:53.47 brlcad well sorta..
02:54.02 brlcad it was never reported to the tracker, just to the BUGS file
02:54.10 brlcad these are tracker items I was clearing out
02:54.46 yukonbob needs to work-out "issues" w/ Tcl on his system (Tcl wrt NetBSD in general, /me thinks), including getting 8.5 up/running
02:55.02 yukonbob ah --
02:55.57 yukonbob it's nice to see bugs from 1997 getting squashed... ;)
03:24.13 louipc hmm wow sf.net wants me to run 27 jscript files
03:32.21 quentusrex Hello
03:32.25 quentusrex Anyone around?
03:32.39 yukonbob nobyd -- shh..
03:32.43 quentusrex :)
03:32.44 yukonbob *nobody
03:33.28 quentusrex Do you know if there has been any progress into taking multiple pictures of a 3D object and translating that into CAD?
03:33.47 yukonbob ?by magic
03:34.35 quentusrex I'm talking about 3D object detection, and translation into some form of Computer modeling.
03:35.20 yukonbob has no idea what project/task quentusrex is talking about, of if this a general "start of the art" question for the whole field of 3d visualization
03:35.30 yukonbob *state of the art
03:35.41 yukonbob damn latency, again (still)
03:36.44 quentusrex Well, I have experience in video and image transcoding(which basically is just dealing with many individual frames) and I had a through. With object detection in images, what about having a video? with many frames?
03:37.12 quentusrex If there are several images with the objects 'detected' couldn't those be modeled?
03:37.30 quentusrex by taking many 2D 'slices' of the profile of an object?
03:39.01 quentusrex wouldn't you think so yukonbob?
03:42.20 yukonbob I'll qualify my answer with "I'm not an expert"
03:43.54 yukonbob I'd be skeptical -- you'd need "perfect" lighting, perfectly configured, and work w/ objects that conform to formats you "know", I'd think
03:44.25 yukonbob after all, video isn't 3d, no matter if you shoot images of the real world
03:44.53 louipc har har I opened another bug report.
03:46.13 yukonbob so it's an interpolation job... also depednds on what you expect to get out of it -- BRL-CAD specfically uses CSG, which wouldn't work well with your idea, since a _lot_ of what a CSG odel can be is not necessarily visible -- BREP, otoh, might work to some degree.
03:46.16 louipc quentusrex: yeah I saw a program that would help do that but it didn't take slices
03:46.57 louipc it took points on the image and somehow analysed it
03:47.38 yukonbob guesses you'd also need to know objects material/finish, to know how light interracts w/ it...
03:48.27 yukonbob because light is the only metric you've got when dealing w/ an image...
03:50.46 yukonbob is inclined to find the "issues" w/ questions like this -- I'm sure it'd be a fun project, and results could be impressive.
05:20.48 pacman87 http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/urbanscape/
05:21.17 pacman87 a bit late to the discussion, but this kind of looks like what you're describing
05:21.37 brlcad tunes in
05:21.51 yukonbob waves
05:22.30 yukonbob would is interested if pacman87 or brlcad have comments about the preceeding...
05:22.39 yukonbob looks at pacman87's link
05:23.50 brlcad i've actually had a research project directly related to what he's suggested "on tap" for several years now
05:23.51 yukonbob pacman87: kewl
05:24.11 brlcad lots of thoughts and ideas on the subject, it's an entirely non-trivial problem, but intersting nonetheless
05:24.46 brlcad there are a couple groups working on model reconstruction from video/photos, pretty much in its infancy right now
05:25.17 yukonbob s/would is/is/
05:26.00 yukonbob brlcad: seems interesting, but "messy" to me -- esp. when in the headspace of the precision/correctness of dealing w/ BRL-CAD -type issues
05:26.13 yukonbob feh
05:26.16 brlcad http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/10468/33215/01565435.pdf?temp=x is another group (based off research from stanford iirc)
05:26.50 yukonbob miilitary probably _loves_ this stuff, though, for quick/dirty recon
05:27.35 yukonbob send in automaton which sends out signal in RT... review, attack!
05:27.57 brlcad it's the ultimate in reverse modeling techniques .. just video tape the thing and *poof*, 3D model on computer
05:28.11 brlcad goal-wise at least
05:28.26 brlcad it'll happen eventually (at high-res), most of the pieces are there
05:28.26 pacman87 re: need to know objects material/finish, to know how light interracts w/ it...
05:28.37 yukonbob well... depending on goal... is so dirty, but that may be fine...
05:28.41 pacman87 i'd think that's only a problem for very shiny stuff
05:28.53 brlcad shiney stuff isn't really that hard
05:28.54 pacman87 with reflections that change depending on your viewing angel
05:28.55 pacman87 angle
05:29.04 yukonbob pacman87: or transparent/translucent, /me imagines
05:29.09 brlcad in a single image it is, even with just a couple frames, you can correlate really easily
05:29.25 brlcad soft bodies are a bitch
05:29.41 yukonbob "soft body"?
05:29.55 yukonbob ie: a dog, vs. a building?
05:30.01 brlcad yeah
05:30.03 brlcad people
05:30.06 brlcad plastic bags
05:32.48 brlcad just about anything highly deformable (e.g. people), or with ill-defined or hard-to-detect boundaries (e.g., hair, fur), liquids, plastics under a load, something undergoing a deformation .. all not something that can be captured via video/images really well/easily/at all
05:33.16 brlcad quentusrex: why do you ask? you interested in working on that? :)
06:26.53 brlcad louipc: thanks for the report..
07:00.09 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:02.10 louipc brlcad: sure thing
07:56.01 *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:28.24 quentusrex brlcad, Well, I'm currently busy on a project that is going corporate. So for the next year or so I'll be really busy. But I'd love to work on something like this.
08:28.47 quentusrex The next company I start I hope will deal more directly with AI and robitics issues.
08:30.06 quentusrex Real world application for something like this would be(for the military) is flying a drone over a city and then being able to have a 3D map of the city.
08:30.28 quentusrex and moving soft body objects like dogs and humans would just be considered 'noise'
09:52.04 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:58.21 mafm allo
10:26.19 clock_ What I find fascinating if you turn the view in BRL-CAD and do clockwise or counterclockwise circles with the mouse, it rotates around the axis of view
10:26.47 clock_ the bigger circles, the larger rotation per completed circle
10:27.07 clock_ This must be some property of the algebraic group of rotation, any explanation?
10:54.37 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.23.133)
11:15.17 quentusrex Also, for a project like this I wouldn't expect a perfect rendering of what ever the object is. I would think it would still need a person to 'fix the fine details' but it would give a significant head start on the modeling process.
11:18.13 clock_ quentusrex: BRL-CAD produces an almost perfect rendering
11:18.49 quentusrex sorry clock_, that comment is in relation to a much earlier conversation
16:03.32 clock_ Oh my bugreports are being processed
16:03.35 clock_ I appreciate that.
16:12.30 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548744AB.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:56.40 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:22.45 brlcad any czech speakers here?
17:31.55 *** join/#brlcad andre|away (n=chatzill@189.71.62.7)
17:32.23 andrecastelo good morning :D
18:19.21 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (command.c nirt.1):
18:19.21 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: Change behavior of backout command in interactive nirt - backout flag can now be
18:19.21 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: activated and deactivated, and repeated invocations of backout will not increase
18:19.21 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: the backout distance with each invocation. Also, change of origin due to
18:19.21 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: backout use in shoot is now temporary - previous value is restored after shot is
18:19.24 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: complete.
18:22.09 mafm brlcad: I think clock_ does -- if you can wait for him to log again
18:23.21 CIA-21 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31015 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add NEWS note for nirt change
18:25.11 brlcad mafm: yeah, I know he does as do two other guys
18:25.17 brlcad but I don't see theem, so figured I'd query ;)
18:27.54 mafm it's a bit confusing, since he has swiss ISPs :)
18:28.54 mafm 1) Whitespace -- Indents are 4 characters, tabs are 8 characters.
18:29.09 brlcad yes?
18:29.44 mafm how can you indent to 4 characters in emacs then?
18:30.02 brlcad there are emacs local variable footers in all files
18:30.16 brlcad it should be automatic
18:30.49 brlcad if you create any new files with sh/template.sh, it'll also have the correct footer
18:31.23 brlcad otherwise the answer more specifically is you set the indentation to 4 and then just hit tab, emacs will do the right thing
18:31.23 mafm lemme check
18:31.48 brlcad the footers set up the indentation style
18:32.16 brlcad there's also a vi/vim line with similar decls
18:32.55 mafm hmm, is the "stroustrup" thing? I thought that the "tab-width: 8" was the one working for indentation
18:33.39 brlcad yeah, it used to be explicit
18:33.52 brlcad but then the file style was set, which for stroustrup is 4 char indents
18:34.58 brlcad e.g. at the bottom of http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/tags/rel-7-8-4/src/libbu/association.c?revision=27207&view=markup
18:35.25 brlcad c-basic-offset for c-mode files
18:35.36 brlcad but since it's redundant with a style set, it was removed
18:37.21 brlcad tab-width basically just describes where the tab stops are at, used during indentation
18:39.27 mafm I see
18:46.21 mafm int the_answer() { return 42; };
18:46.33 mafm aren't one-line functions forbidden? :)
18:56.55 brlcad heh
18:57.17 brlcad omfg, clock's perpend actually tessellates
18:57.51 brlcad at least with the latest sources, so either my bot fixes fixed the dangling face errors or just better roll of the dice
18:58.14 brlcad just took it forever to tessellate .. 15 hours
18:58.25 mafm try to buy lottery today, just in the case
19:01.10 brlcad :)
19:01.20 brlcad mega millions is up to 160M or something
19:03.13 *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
19:07.49 mafm I tend to be the luckiest among my family and friends thugh, by not buying it
19:07.58 mafm so at least I don't waste money :)
19:16.37 mafm well, I go home now
19:16.45 mafm or drinking a beer first, maybe :)
19:17.00 mafm bye!
19:25.15 brlcad png results here, http://brlcad.org/tmp/perpend/
19:30.31 brlcad wow, down to less than 35 bugs
20:24.21 yukonbob waves in
20:24.30 brlcad 6howdy yukonbob
20:24.43 yukonbob 7howdy back, bugkilla
20:45.41 PrezKennedy howdy y'all
20:45.46 starseeker howdy :-)
20:46.47 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.62.7)
20:54.19 andrecastelo ``Erik: hey erik
21:09.37 brlcad hola andrecastelo
21:09.59 andrecastelo hey brlcad :D
21:10.30 brlcad how's it going?
21:10.38 andrecastelo i'm fine, you ?
21:10.49 brlcad peachy :)
21:10.59 andrecastelo i've started writing a mlt_def.h, with a few structure definitions
21:11.01 brlcad happy that the bug reports were cut in half
21:11.10 brlcad cool
21:11.16 andrecastelo cool, heard about that
21:11.22 andrecastelo but i kinda got a problem
21:11.37 brlcad you should post it up as a patch ;)
21:11.38 andrecastelo i'm going to use struct point_list, that i created in viewarea.c (in rtarea)
21:11.50 andrecastelo where can i add it so that i may use it in mlt as well ?
21:12.34 brlcad depends whether you're going the liboptical route or isolated tool
21:13.06 andrecastelo i'm going isolated tool ;)
21:13.27 brlcad okay, then just put it in your header for now then
21:13.35 andrecastelo hm ok, then
21:14.15 brlcad or keep it in its own header
21:14.30 brlcad so it can be moved around to whereever makes sense
21:14.50 andrecastelo ok..
21:15.24 andrecastelo i'll add some stuff and then upload as a patch so you can give me some feedback, can i do that ?
21:15.46 brlcad otherwise, raytrace.h normally/presently holds most of the rendering structures
21:15.56 brlcad yeah, that'd be great
21:16.14 andrecastelo ok, just a minute, i need a reboot
21:16.18 brlcad after one or two of those, should be able to get you committing directly
21:16.27 brlcad or reboot :P
21:17.10 brlcad notes there is an rt_pt_node, linked list of points
21:17.54 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548744AB.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:30.37 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.62.7)
21:30.50 andrecastelo k, back
21:35.15 andrecastelo brlcad: i've updated my working copy but i have some conflicts in misc/win32-msvc8.. my msvc updated some files in there to be compatible to the latest msvc9.. what should i do ? can i simply ignore them ?
21:45.27 brlcad andre|afk: if you have conflicts, you can't ignore them -- it puts markers in the files
21:46.01 brlcad should probably blow the directory away, svn up again, then cp win32-msvc8 to win32-msvc9 to update
21:46.10 brlcad or provide a diff of the updates it made for vc9
21:46.20 brlcad as a patch (presuming it works with 8)
21:47.21 andre|afk brlcad: there's no problem in deleting it ? the source code i have is different from the one in the svn, because of the center points patch
21:48.51 brlcad you'd have to readd those changes to the build files
21:49.04 brlcad you can try to resolve the conflicts, merge the changes in
21:49.17 brlcad but if you've not made more than a couple edits, probably easier to just make them again
21:57.41 andrecastelo brlcad: is it easier to use a command line svn? i'm using tortoiseSVN, is that a problem ?

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