IRC log for #brlcad on 20080613

00:14.06 ``Erik in... rt?
00:16.28 ``Erik *look*
00:17.31 ``Erik "BUFMODE_SCANLINE" is the one you'd be used to seeing, I believe
00:24.07 ``Erik andre, this is reduced to the "normal" code path for you: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d79ae3ecc
00:24.19 ``Erik brlcad: zomfg, teh spamz0rz!
00:27.57 ``Erik wants to completely remove the 'restart' capability, so "perfect black" is no longer a magic semantic notion :/
00:28.46 ``Erik I'll wait until MLT is fully implemented, if it takes a week to render a nice scene, restart might be worth keeping
00:30.11 andrecastelo ``Erik: thanks erik, i'll take a look. I've also changed the mlt_app back, with path_lists and point_lists
00:30.31 andrecastelo I was doing the required changes to rayhit() and view_init()
00:33.27 ``Erik <-- has never written an rt, has only really dorked around with fixing a race condition in viewedge.c in that dir... :) so I may be wrong or otherwise confused :)
00:35.46 andrecastelo thanks though, changing view_end to free multiple path lists and point lists
00:35.54 homovulgaris who was the adrt architect :) ?
00:37.18 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31380 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Changed mlt_app to use path_lists that use point_lists. Updated rayhit(), view_init() and view_end().
00:40.06 andrecastelo reads pastebin
00:41.58 ``Erik adrt was done by twingy
00:42.53 ``Erik I've been doing a lot of crud in that directory, but I still treat parts as black boxes, so right now, no one really knows it... he knows part, i know part... :)
00:44.03 homovulgaris :)
00:44.37 ``Erik whyfor?
00:45.58 homovulgaris Tryker ICV looks really cool :)
00:46.03 homovulgaris *Stryker
00:46.19 ``Erik that is the RISE path tracer
00:46.42 homovulgaris what exactly was the grass in that model .. geometrically ?
00:46.47 ``Erik theoretically, the MLT should output an extremely similar picture in less time, given the resource
00:46.48 ``Erik triangles
00:47.31 ``Erik twingy used a blender plugin to generate a gazillion triangles of grass, then exported it to the adrt format and glued the stryker on it
00:47.35 ``Erik iirc
00:47.42 ``Erik each blade is several triangles
00:48.05 homovulgaris :O 11542,992 triangles
00:48.13 homovulgaris and 5 days of rendering :)
00:48.30 homovulgaris i think it's time for MLT indeed :)
00:48.33 ``Erik yes, a few years ago
00:48.49 ``Erik across a large number of machines, ADRT is a distributed system
00:49.01 homovulgaris yeah i was just checking out the directory
00:49.02 ``Erik so there was something like two dozen computers, many of them dual core
00:49.19 andrecastelo still, mlt IS a brute force solution.. so how much less time it is expected to output such images?
00:49.25 ``Erik but it's hypersampled and has depth shtuff
00:49.39 ``Erik uhm, you know the semi-genetic algorithm to favor 'important' rays?
00:49.51 ``Erik RISE is full on random in path selection
00:50.04 homovulgaris :D "full on random"
00:50.08 ``Erik every time. Never tries to do any kind of importance selection, just drand48() style
00:50.40 homovulgaris how does tie improve it ?
00:50.53 ``Erik tie is a very fast raytracer that only does triangles
00:51.07 ``Erik not quite as fast as rayfarce or manta, but far faster than librt
00:51.26 ``Erik were it done with librt bots, that'd be 5 months, not 5 days :D
00:51.42 ``Erik note; 8 TRILLION rays
00:52.05 homovulgaris :) hmmm
00:53.30 ``Erik feel free to figure out how many rays per second that is
00:53.45 ``Erik in 2004
00:56.13 ``Erik comes up with 2.3 million rays per second on 2004 hardware
00:56.51 ``Erik starts wondering if that 8 trillion is short O.o like a rollover bug or something
00:57.14 homovulgaris :) what is the status now ? i mean how many rays per sceond on 2007
00:57.19 homovulgaris *in
00:57.21 ``Erik dunno
00:57.23 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:57.25 ``Erik rise doesn't work anymore
00:57.29 ``Erik and isst doesn't do it that way
00:57.33 ``Erik speak of the devil
00:58.30 ``Erik twingy: dawn is drooling over the icv image and the general awesomeness of adrt/rise
00:58.38 homovulgaris :P
00:59.01 homovulgaris maybe we can have another drool when mlt is finished
00:59.44 ``Erik would like to ram tie (or rayforce) into librt to replace bots some day
01:00.13 ``Erik and mebbe replace remrt with the adrt stuff O.o
01:01.16 homovulgaris only raytracing i did in architecture school was using maxwell and kerkythea .. ok maybe a bit of rhino
01:03.15 Twingy who is dawn?
01:03.33 homovulgaris i am dawn :)
01:03.39 ``Erik gsoc student
01:03.39 Twingy hi dawn
01:04.15 homovulgaris dawn is mostly a female name in us right :P I am a guy
01:04.43 homovulgaris hi Twingy , adrt is awesome :)
01:05.00 homovulgaris 6.41 am here.. better go eat something
01:05.21 Twingy I'm flattered, but you should work with ray force as it's a more intelligent way of handling ray tracing
01:05.55 ``Erik rayforce is not open source.
01:06.17 Twingy what do I know...
01:06.37 homovulgaris hmm.. :) oh if somebody is commiting change me and mafm out of the Special Thanks section in AUTHORS to Contributors or something :)
01:06.59 homovulgaris I dislike small commits :)
01:07.25 ``Erik everyone else dislikes big commits :D
01:08.16 andrecastelo i prefer small commits :B
01:08.21 andrecastelo easier to fix if anything goes wrong
01:08.37 ``Erik *nod* and easier to perform code archeology on
01:24.39 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
01:26.08 brlcad woof, what a backlog :)
01:26.14 brlcad *read*read*read*
01:26.29 ``Erik heh
01:27.19 brlcad homovulgaris: no idea re: pkgconfig working -- I set up the files originally and they should be dynamic to the actual build settings needed/used, but I had no quick means or need to test whether it actually worked
01:27.25 Twingy I worked with a gsoc student on nurbana once
01:27.32 ``Erik cool
01:27.33 brlcad I figured I'd leave that to the first person to complain/need it :)
01:28.17 brlcad homovulgaris: if you think they need a fix, go ahead and fix them
01:28.17 ``Erik has a couple 'third party' apps that use librt (rtcmp and that "fast" vl thing), can test the .pc if needed
01:34.44 brlcad notes that tcl/tk is more than 500+k sloc compared to ogre's mere 300k
01:35.38 ``Erik notes that tcl/tk is a pile *cough* O:-)
01:35.59 brlcad homovulgaris: if you run sh/enumerate.sh .. it's a little less than 1.5mil lines :) .. about 1mil of actual brl-cad source
01:36.16 ``Erik I like wheelers "sloccount" suite
01:36.27 ``Erik if you want to extract meaningless metrics
01:37.50 ``Erik thedailywtf.com has a few stories about how coders destroy idiotic mgmt plans involving loc or commit metrics :)
01:38.37 ``Erik http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Defect-Black-Market.aspx
01:42.39 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
01:46.02 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
01:46.29 brlcad pacman87: hah, that's awesome (tess) ..
01:46.57 brlcad homovulgaris and andrecastelo: really nice progress updates :)
01:47.13 brlcad jeez, leave for dinner and come back to a ton of cool stuff :)
01:47.40 ``Erik the answer, obviously, is to quit eating.
01:47.51 ``Erik I mean, you gave up sleep, giving up eating should be easy O.o
01:49.02 ``Erik munches his nuked dinner O.o
01:49.55 ``Erik "if you don't like it, you can just pass the blunt to the n***er on your left" --Jimmy, southpark
01:50.03 ``Erik what a show :D
01:51.14 homovulgaris hey Erik could you check if pkgconfig is working
01:51.25 brlcad andrecastelo: he really was .. kinda disturbing to have a grown guy asking folks to look at his balls :)
01:51.39 homovulgaris mine gives Variable 'datarootdir' not defined in '/usr/brlcad/lib/pkgconfig/rt.pc'
01:51.57 homovulgaris where as it is defined.. just a line below where it is used i guess :)
01:52.05 ``Erik it was completely innocent! I can't help if you PERVERTS twisted it into something disturbing!
01:52.30 homovulgaris i am sure it would have been equally disturbing even if it was a non-grown guy :D
01:53.34 ``Erik and, uh, WHO suggested changing "goo" to "sweat" in the primitive?
01:53.49 ``Erik btw; I had to :%s/sweat/goo/g really fast when I was showing pjt the code
01:53.54 homovulgaris brlcad: i ran sloccount it says we have 0.26 mil of shell script :O
01:54.03 homovulgaris and 1 mil of ansic ofcourse
01:54.14 ``Erik most of that .26 is probably generated or copied autoconf stuff
01:54.57 homovulgaris yeah.. :) 3323 of asm ;) in src/other and libfb :)
01:56.31 homovulgaris hmm libz
01:57.38 ``Erik eyeballs src/libfb/sgiselect.s
01:57.45 brlcad yay, caught up
01:57.53 homovulgaris libz has ada too ?
01:58.19 brlcad yeah, sloccount is nifty, last ran it like seven years ago though
01:58.20 ``Erik o.O
01:59.15 brlcad ``Erik: if I had not gone to dinner, I wouldn't have found out some cool news
01:59.24 brlcad mamie's is getting a liquor's license :)
01:59.33 ``Erik nice
01:59.40 ``Erik are they going to carry anything worth ordering? :D
01:59.43 brlcad and because of that's they are already byob now
01:59.59 brlcad some folks were in tonight with a bottle of wine
02:00.14 ``Erik unfortunately, I can't throw a beer in the fridge at work in anticipation
02:00.27 brlcad and Ed stuff ourselves like mad
02:00.30 ``Erik shows up to mamies with a six pack and a bottle of vodka O.o :>
02:00.46 ``Erik ed was in the area? shoot, I may've done the 30 minute drive for that
02:00.56 brlcad we left late
02:01.14 ``Erik ahhh
02:01.25 brlcad ``Erik: yeah, but remember the place next door :)
02:01.34 ``Erik hrm? radio shack?
02:01.39 ``Erik or the asian market?
02:01.40 ``Erik O.o
02:01.45 brlcad :)
02:02.02 homovulgaris at sgiselect.s i like intel syntax better, argh windows memories
02:02.10 brlcad before asian is my blessed scotch shop
02:02.21 ``Erik I doubt I can buy a single bottle of a drinkable beer at a liquor store... aint' no way I'm gonna drink something that comes as a "fourty"
02:02.32 ``Erik eck, intel syntax is teh ugliez, give me at&t style
02:02.46 brlcad they have a decent selection, surprising for the appearance outside
02:02.55 homovulgaris binutils also now supports intel syntax :)
02:03.16 ``Erik <-- has two nice stores around the corner from his house
02:03.57 homovulgaris It is just 7.40am , I want to have lunch and sleep
02:04.16 brlcad homovulgaris: that 0.26 mil of shell script is biased because of the regression scripts in regress/
02:04.21 ``Erik wow, almost sounds like you keep programmers hours :)
02:04.33 brlcad they have binary images encoded in ascii that are compared for regression testing
02:04.52 *** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (n=Pandora@c-69-243-244-154.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
02:04.56 brlcad you'd have to exempt regress/
02:05.11 brlcad howdy punkrockgirl (nice nick)
02:05.16 homovulgaris yeah regress is around .23 mil :D
02:05.22 punkrockgirl hi
02:05.24 punkrockgirl thanks
02:05.39 ``Erik punker is my bitch, btw, so put it away, boy
02:05.40 ``Erik O.o
02:05.44 punkrockgirl :)
02:05.58 punkrockgirl wait a second... bitch? ;P
02:06.23 ``Erik eck, shaders.sh is ginormous
02:06.25 brlcad homovulgaris: otherwise, the bulk is in sh/ and bench/ .. which is about 9k
02:06.35 ``Erik hah
02:06.42 ``Erik shell script generate of the eagle logo. Ow.
02:06.50 brlcad punkrockgirl: i'll refrain from calling you that, but pleasure to (sorta) finally meet you
02:07.06 punkrockgirl thanks, and you too :)
02:07.25 ``Erik wonders if the image can be shoved in as a pix and have a script use that to generate what it needs
02:07.45 ``Erik or, uh, since it generates a pix, just... have... a pix?
02:07.51 brlcad these days probably, especially with svn
02:08.00 poolio hmm, where do I get a struct model from?
02:08.32 brlcad poolio: sounds like you're following tess()
02:08.35 brlcad for brep()
02:08.37 poolio Aye.
02:09.09 brlcad to get that model struct, you'll have to follow the rt_functab caller that invokes tess() (which I sadly don't remember off-hand)
02:09.30 ``Erik doh, extra_DIST != EXTRA_DIST
02:09.50 ``Erik brlcad, you put in an order for my hocket helmet and water wings, right?
02:10.00 brlcad heh, yep
02:10.14 brlcad is going to do that just to see what W says
02:10.29 ``Erik "I'm not fat, I just have a sweet hockey body"
02:10.33 ``Erik -Cartman
02:10.34 brlcad heh
02:11.23 ``Erik <-- prepping his brainfuck suite for release
02:11.42 homovulgaris running enumerate made me realise i did not have dc :)
02:13.23 ``Erik enumerate? is this an attempt to re-implement jot?
02:13.57 homovulgaris :O enumerate.sh i meant :)
02:14.00 homovulgaris whats jot ?
02:14.00 ``Erik hates finding himself on linux when he needs something as fundamentally UNIX as jot... wtf doens't linux have that? :(
02:14.02 ``Erik oh, heh
02:14.03 *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
02:14.36 ``Erik jot prints a series of numbers... if you say "jot 10", it'll count from 1 to 10... it has the notion of stride and start, as well
02:14.49 ``Erik so "jot 10 10" will print 10, then 20, then 30, ... to 100
02:15.13 homovulgaris something like seq
02:15.22 brlcad homovulgaris: no dc? the horrors!
02:15.26 ``Erik er, no, "jot 10 10 100" will print that
02:15.42 ``Erik seq? I d'no that one... jot goe sback to the early 70's I believe
02:16.23 brlcad ``Erik: wow, I don't think I knew about jot ...
02:16.28 ``Erik sorry, early 80's
02:16.43 ``Erik 42BSD
02:16.51 brlcad we effectively have our own implementation of it in brl-cad because there wasn't a prevalent means
02:17.14 ``Erik jot doesn't exist on linux
02:17.32 homovulgaris seq does and does the same work .. except for jot -r i guess
02:17.32 ``Erik I wrote something kinda similar when I was at fedex because we were stuck fielding redhat boxes :/
02:17.49 ``Erik 'enum.c
02:17.55 ``Erik i have it somewhere on some hard drive, I think
02:18.04 brlcad /usr/brlcad/bin/loop
02:18.17 brlcad loop 10 100 10
02:18.28 ``Erik hah
02:18.37 ``Erik sounds like someone knew about jot and missed it :d
02:18.38 ``Erik :D
02:18.50 brlcad probably
02:19.02 brlcad thinks loop is a much better name though :)
02:19.39 brlcad uses loop in a handful of the scripts
02:20.29 ``Erik *shrug* jot hails from '82 and is on every OS I seem to give a rats ass about :D
02:20.46 ``Erik the ability to jot out characters is nice, too
02:21.33 ``Erik "jot -c 128 0" is an example in the mac manpage
02:24.40 brlcad mebbie, but loop -c 128 0 would work just as well
02:24.46 brlcad loop -c a z
02:25.48 pacman87 brlcad: don't get too excited about tess() yet, the code is still ugly
02:26.20 homovulgaris brlcad: hmm .. loop -c a z goes on printing zeros...
02:29.17 ``Erik heh :D
02:31.41 ``Erik hrm, '86 by mike
02:32.02 brlcad homovulgaris: hehe, you found a bug :)
02:32.27 brlcad probably reading -c as a negative number and getting stuck in an inf loop
02:32.51 brlcad course it's invalid per the usage, loop doesn't do -c presently
02:33.14 homovulgaris hmm.. present src/util/loop.c has no functionality for -c
02:33.18 brlcad pacman87: nfw, it's awesome .. I actually thought you'd get stuck on it for a while :)
02:33.37 pacman87 brlcad: i was stuck since monday
02:33.55 brlcad well longer :)
02:34.01 brlcad and you fixed uv's in the meantime
02:34.08 brlcad which reminds me
02:34.09 pacman87 i ended up having to read almost all of the other primitive's tess() functions
02:34.10 brlcad updates
02:34.26 pacman87 well, the uv fixes were just to fit to conventions
02:34.50 pacman87 uv took 15-20 characters changed
02:37.36 brlcad yay, kernel panic
02:37.52 pacman87 what from?
02:38.08 homovulgaris kernel update :) ?
02:38.30 brlcad pacman87: it's rarely ever number of lines or chars that matter when it comes to implementing new primitives
02:38.47 brlcad I've been stuck for two weeks on three characters
02:39.14 pacman87 it's knowing what characters to change that's the hard part
02:39.40 pacman87 second half is starting, back later
02:39.48 pacman87 (go lakers)
02:40.19 brlcad shakes fist at jeff hanes
02:40.49 brlcad speaking of jeff hanes .. homovulgaris, hope to get some quality regression testing in on your root solver changes soon
02:41.05 brlcad it's not being ignored, just needs some more effort before it can be applied
02:41.18 brlcad also why it wasn't just assigned to you
02:46.22 homovulgaris :)
02:47.36 brlcad andrecastelo: yours however .. was assigned to you so you can determine if/when to close it out :)
02:48.06 homovulgaris thinks what regression testing would involve
02:50.36 brlcad applying the changes, checking all instances of all callers, determining what public APIs were changed if any (and making appropriate deprecation statements or refactoring wrappers), running our regression test suite, creating a series of test polynomials that test edge cases, etc
02:51.12 poolio Users do the best testing :)
02:51.33 brlcad validing that indeed nothing has changed computationally and/or seeing how to integrate it in a way that doesn't screw users that might rely on it
02:52.00 brlcad poolio: not when your user might die as a result of it not working
02:52.08 homovulgaris hmm.. yeah convention change is such a long process :)
02:52.35 brlcad and for this code, invalid computation could have some pretty serious impacts if it has a subtle bug
02:52.35 homovulgaris has a grumbling stomach.. :|
02:52.47 poolio brlcad: err...
02:53.10 brlcad otherwise, I'd agree :)
02:53.34 homovulgaris i am pretty sure there must be a bug lurking around ..:)
02:54.01 brlcad what makes you think that?
03:07.01 brlcad *crickets*
03:09.44 homovulgaris well even after testing, i just felt like it happened too fast :P
03:09.56 brlcad k
03:11.35 homovulgaris brlcad: could you check the wiki page. small changes and a few questions i think.. i am going out for a big brunch.. and sleep.. will check after that.. lots of work for the next 3 days
03:13.09 brlcad john already answered at least one question
03:14.37 brlcad at least a good comment to one of the points
03:19.00 brlcad homovulgaris: shift to pc.h earlier rather than later would be good (and raytrace.h would/could include pc.h if it needs it)
03:21.03 brlcad i will be quite impressed if you can actually implement what you suggest in your solution class
03:21.43 brlcad resolving to ranges of possible solutions, potentially ordered solution sets with preferred solutions
03:25.26 brlcad also, not sure if it's useful in your situation, but your solver might benefit from an interval arithmetic library (boost has one, it was recommended for C++0x inclusion but don't know if it made it)
03:25.40 brlcad for managing numeric ranges
03:29.43 brlcad http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_35_0/libs/numeric/interval/doc/interval.htm
03:29.46 brlcad http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2006/n2067.pdf
03:29.48 brlcad for reference
03:30.34 brlcad pretty cool stuff, I wanted to implement a volumetric path tracer using interval arithmetic at one point ..
03:31.12 brlcad mpfi is a lean n mean C implementation that'd be trivial to embed in your domain class
03:31.47 poolio brlcad: are the raytracing issues of brep objects regarding the floating point errors on edges outside of the tolerance range? Couldn't you just test all points against the tolerance in order to correct for the errors or is it _that bad_ ?
03:32.30 brlcad depends which tolerance you're talking about
03:33.15 poolio Well, I was thinking about some distance in bn_tol
03:33.20 brlcad regardless, even if you do -- simply testing all points against a tolerance doesn't solve it by itself
03:34.51 brlcad so you determine you hit a curve or several curves within some tolerance .. you 1) can't easily compute that with any efficiency (like order of magnitude problems) and 2) even if you do, you still don't know if it was grazing exit or grazing entry without additional information
04:15.35 andrecastelo is back
04:15.40 andrecastelo wow, lots of logs
04:15.44 andrecastelo reads
04:16.41 pacman87 wb andrecastelo
04:16.49 poolio brlcad: well don't you have that problem regardless of how you try to solve? Don't you always not know whether it's entering or exiting if you're going through an edge?
04:17.34 andrecastelo sup pacman87
04:17.44 andrecastelo brlcad: mine what? the patch?
04:19.14 poolio pacman87: purty pictures :)
04:19.36 pacman87 poolio: thanks ;) purty, but slow atm
04:19.56 pacman87 have you tried it?
04:20.40 poolio pacman87: nope, how do I make it run?
04:20.55 poolio I should really read through the mged docs and learn how to actually use the software I code for :)
04:21.03 pacman87 start mged
04:21.28 poolio I'm looking at a plotted hyp, how do I tesselate?
04:21.34 pacman87 "ev name"
04:22.08 poolio ah
04:22.20 poolio schweet :)
04:22.31 pacman87 no bugs yet?
04:24.42 poolio pacman87: yes siree: nmg_booltree_leaf_tess(hyp2.s): tessellation failure
04:24.42 poolio db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/hyp2.s'
04:24.42 poolio /hyp2.s:
04:24.58 pacman87 do "l hyp2.s"
04:25.21 poolio do you want all that rather then the in command?
04:25.28 pacman87 in works too
04:25.34 pacman87 if you still have it
04:26.08 poolio in hyp4.s hyp 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2 1 90
04:26.13 poolio I think it's due to my crazy parameters :)
04:29.31 pacman87 hmmm, i'm getting bad pointer errors...
04:38.49 pacman87 Making all in libpc
04:38.50 pacman87 make[2]: Entering directory `/home/timothy/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpc'
04:38.50 pacman87 make[2]: *** No rule to make target `pc\_solver.lo', needed by `libpc_nil.la'. Stop.
04:39.01 andrecastelo hm, cya guys, i'm out to sleep
04:39.10 pacman87 bye andre|away
04:41.32 pacman87 homovulgaris: did libpc compile for you?
04:42.20 brlcad that should be a simple Makefile.am fix
04:44.10 pacman87 brlcad: except that i don't really know my way around makefiles...
04:44.57 brlcad well, but you shouldn't need to :)
04:45.11 brlcad look at that line in the file that mentions solver
04:45.19 brlcad something should look very wrong about it to you
04:45.20 pacman87 extra \
04:45.23 brlcad even in the error messgae
04:45.25 homovulgaris hi :)
04:45.50 brlcad bingo
04:45.51 homovulgaris yeah the \_ i had put in because there was some problem on my make system in recognizing underscore character
04:46.09 homovulgaris you can remove the \ :)
04:46.21 pacman87 should i go ahead and commit it?
04:46.26 brlcad why not?
04:46.30 poolio One day I'm going to learn about all these autoconf tools and what not and not wait hours for brlcad to finish cleaning and recompiling
04:46.44 homovulgaris :) brl-cad has a pretty nice build system :)
04:47.10 homovulgaris i especially like the way posix shell scripts are generated instead of binaries :P
04:47.28 pacman87 make install takes 6 times longer than make for me, after a simple change to hyp.c
04:47.49 brlcad pacman87: cd src/librt && make install
04:47.55 brlcad you shouldn't need to reinstall everything
04:48.15 pacman87 brlcad: yeah, i though of that 2 secs after i hit enter
04:48.48 brlcad homovulgaris: only one does that really
04:49.00 poolio What really bugs me is how to 'make clean' it will sometimes have to reconfigure
04:49.04 brlcad one out of 400
04:49.08 homovulgaris brlcad: i will check out boost's interval arithmetic thingy
04:49.58 homovulgaris and any idea why i have to put \_ to get things working with my make :) maybe a debian issue
04:50.15 poolio homovulgaris: I run debian (sid) and haven't seen that issue
04:50.16 brlcad and/or mpfr .. been thinking of using that for another task, gmp and its deps could be made fair game if they work
04:51.00 homovulgaris like yesterday i was having trouble compiling primitives/bspline/nurb_*
04:51.17 homovulgaris worked when i put them as bspline/nurb\_*
04:51.59 homovulgaris and then they worked even when i removed them(\) .. even after clean ofcourse..
04:52.35 pacman87 chocolate milk... the midnight snack of champions :)
04:54.03 homovulgaris poolio: i am on sid too . weird
04:55.00 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31381 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: if libpc is dependent upon libwdb, it needs to be listed here instead of the Makefile.am
04:55.40 homovulgaris brlcad: the whole include thing is a general mess, i need to really clean that part up
04:56.40 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31382 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: remove the gnu-specific linker and compiler flags, configure controls those (and/or they can be specified at make time with make CXXFLAGS=-Wall for example). remove erroneous backslash
04:59.13 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31383 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: include fast compilation rules for fast dependency-free distributed linkage
05:01.03 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31384 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libbu/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): hum, missing some fast entries
05:03.15 pacman87 poolio: that hyp isn't valid
05:04.28 poolio pacman87: figures :) But shouldn't you be catching that?
05:04.38 pacman87 my version does...
05:04.44 poolio ah hmm. let me update again
05:04.55 poolio ah yah know, I built but I didn't install :) Sorry.
05:05.09 pacman87 you can run from src/mged/mged
05:07.47 poolio pacman87: works now. Sorry I wasted your time mate
05:08.06 pacman87 np, poolio
05:10.18 brlcad homovulgaris: fyi: table.c:1007: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
05:10.21 brlcad table.c:1008: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
05:11.16 homovulgaris well got to do with the function declarations of constraint export import etc. will check it
05:11.22 homovulgaris i thought i had fixed that
05:14.11 *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
05:15.44 pacman87 bedtime for me, if anyone breaks hyp, i'll be back in the morning to put it back together :)
05:21.52 homovulgaris gn pacman
05:22.19 homovulgaris is unable to sleep thinking about constraint solver architecture
05:45.39 homovulgaris is going to dream about solver now :)
05:47.37 poolio nite homovulgaris
05:53.22 *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@210-11-147-98.netspeed.com.au)
07:01.14 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:21.47 poolio Argh. I was 3 characters short from working code... "C" ... darn C++.
08:49.44 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.156.165)
10:38.17 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-032-151.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:06.44 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31385 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: the private headers must be declared so they will be included in the source dist, else distcheck failure
11:14.51 *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
11:16.23 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-214-111.dyn.iinet.net.au)
11:46.32 *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-214-111.dyn.iinet.net.au)
12:29.47 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:13.00 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.4.180)
13:58.03 *** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
13:58.32 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
14:00.40 mafm holy excrement
14:00.49 mafm I must have eaten a cow or two :P
14:03.37 brlcad heh
14:05.33 mafm I think that the gsoc rules should forbid about going to brazilian restaurants before coding
14:05.42 mafm (that would be bad for andrecastelo, though...)
14:07.42 brlcad hehe
14:07.54 *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E08C.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:07.56 brlcad mmm.. I haven't been to brazillian in a long while..
14:10.07 mafm I go very often, there are lots of them here
14:10.55 mafm I wanted to eat [shell]fish today, because it's a very hot day and I'm tired, but I tried several restaurants and they're closed today
14:11.04 mafm so... no escape
14:21.37 mafm brlcad: so about the logging & console guidelines?
14:24.09 brlcad mmm...
14:24.41 brlcad logging is an age-old pet project of mine
14:25.19 brlcad I'd just start with something really simple, maybe just a Logger singleton that sends via cout for now
14:25.46 brlcad no levels or categories, just straight up simple logging
14:26.01 brlcad as long as the hooks are in the right place, the rest can be added alter
14:26.06 brlcad s/alter/later/
14:27.35 mafm I see
14:27.45 brlcad sound reasonable?
14:27.47 mafm I was wondering if you wanted me to use libbu for that
14:28.08 brlcad at this point it doesn't matter quite yet
14:28.14 brlcad you could use bu_log
14:28.26 *** join/#brlcad madant (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
14:28.26 mafm OK, singleton would be
14:28.39 brlcad i mean the logger singleton would/could call bu_log
14:28.57 mafm and about the console?
14:28.59 brlcad or cerr/cout, etc -- so long as it's encapsulated, it doesn't matter
14:30.58 brlcad so the console is going to be a bit tricky
14:31.08 brlcad as you're working on something the rest of the core devs are also working on
14:31.18 brlcad there's a big effort going on now on the development of a new geometry service
14:32.25 brlcad that geometry service entails refactoring most of mged into libged for basic geometry editing command functionality, the development of an OO API layer on top for geometry management, and a network service layer for accessing a geometry database (which is what you'd ultimately connect to)
14:33.21 brlcad alas those are very much bleeding edge developments, so you're working in tandem, and the console needs to pretend that there's this service that it'll be talking to even though it doesn't yet functionally exist
14:34.29 mafm I see
14:34.56 brlcad it should be ready in a couple weeks, but for now I think the best plan will be for you to stub in some functionality into rt^3dbd so that it basically does what brlcad/src/gtools/gtransfer does
14:35.12 brlcad then have your gui attach to rt^3dbd and get its list of commands
14:35.41 mafm and I should try to copy MGED layouts and functionalities but with stubs, or do you guys have another plans for that?
14:35.58 brlcad yeah, other plans
14:37.48 brlcad you can hook the dbd into libged if you like, there is some functionality already in there that can be leveraged, but I think the basic goal will be to be able to run just a handful of commands on the console that amount to "get list of available geometry, load/draw geometry"
14:38.26 brlcad at that point, you'll have a display list that you can then work out the rest of the gui interface for input and trackball support
14:39.12 brlcad if you want to forego the dbd layer for starters, you could, but it should ideally end up being protocol-driven
14:40.05 brlcad I'd suggest taking a look at what g_transfer is doing and see if you can get dbd and your gui talking to each other the same way
14:40.56 brlcad make sense?
14:43.44 mafm yep, OK, I'll look into it
14:43.55 mafm I was looking for info in the wiki too
14:43.59 brlcad otherwise, the other tasker is to make it trivial for others to compile :)
14:44.34 mafm rbgui guys didn't tell anything yet
14:44.41 brlcad there's a fair bit about the geometry service at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Geometry_Service
14:44.48 brlcad linked from the Developer_Documents page
14:45.11 mafm based in the size of OGRE & friends as I pasted yesterday, should I still integrate OGRE?
14:45.24 brlcad the dev that uploaded that stuff is a little uml-happy, so have to weed through a bit to get to the guts
14:45.37 brlcad ah, you missed my reply :)
14:46.05 mafm yup, I disconnected shortly thereafter, there were people waiting for me for the party :D
14:46.13 brlcad we have nearly 1M of external code in the main brl-cad module.. :) .. tcl/tk alone is about 500k sloc
14:46.47 brlcad the point isn't so much the size as providing a one-stop delivery for folks that *don't* have those deps already installed
14:46.49 mafm hmm, that's biggish
14:46.55 brlcad as disk space is pretty damn cheap
14:47.27 brlcad course with the brl-cad module, we still have more brl-cad code than external code and with this new project, ogre would certainly dwarf it
14:47.47 mafm yet I think OGRE is a bit different though, since in example I'm using now trunk (~1.7) instead of latest stable (1.4.8), because RBGui depending on some functionalities
14:47.49 brlcad the idea, though, is to usually sort out the build system so that it *only* ever builds it if the user doesn't have it installed
14:48.08 brlcad so you basically just save them a download and make compilation/integration easy
14:48.49 mafm but OK, I'll do what you want :)
14:48.52 brlcad that sort of requirement for a special ogre is actually exactly one of the sort of reasons why we do often embed
14:49.09 brlcad you don't have to for ogre, at least not yet
14:49.22 brlcad but then the installation instructions need to be specific
14:49.29 brlcad and the patch sets need to be handy
14:49.39 brlcad (in the repository)
14:50.26 mafm at the moment only RBGui/Mocha need, with Ogre it would be either to have the patch, or using trunk
14:50.44 brlcad so what do you think about rbgui?
14:51.07 brlcad worth sticking with?
14:51.09 mafm maybe (wild guess) even they make a new release with that included in the next few weeks
14:51.18 mafm I like it better than CEGUI at the moment
14:51.30 brlcad yeah, I don't really care about the build integration issues, we can deal with that :)
14:51.41 brlcad it's more features, usability, ease of use, etc
14:52.07 brlcad how easy is it to skin? I saw you added a brlcad.skin
14:52.15 mafm feature-wise I think that they're about the same, but RBGui doesn't use XML (I'm not big fan of it, in example for speed considerations), and feels more responsive etc
14:52.41 mafm that skin was only for the new font
14:52.50 brlcad ah, k
14:53.07 mafm and I don't know about automatic tools (I think that both of them have, but I never used)
14:53.11 brlcad how hard would it be to do a non-overlapping layout?
14:53.24 mafm but not having XML is a bit more manageable to edit by hand
14:53.44 brlcad nods
14:54.01 mafm and it's based in PNG images, so in that sense both of them are also similar (no SVG or the like)
14:54.41 brlcad that's a shame :/
14:54.52 brlcad but okay
14:54.54 mafm about overlapping, I still don't have an idea of the GUI elements that need to be present at a given time, so I can't tell
14:56.28 brlcad minimally the elements -- a console, a 3D view, an informational pane
14:57.13 mafm I guess that you saw the screenshots -- at the moment I put a little console in the bottom (30% or so) of the page
14:57.29 mafm but MGED console is different, is a separate window
14:57.30 brlcad other elements include a command overlay, some sense of progress/status (maybe a status bar or status corner), "maybe" a menu bar or menu corner
14:57.34 mafm OGRE can do that, too
14:57.45 brlcad forget mged's gui for now
14:58.07 brlcad if we wanted to keep mged, you wouldn't have a gsoc project :)
14:58.25 brlcad s/mged/mged's appearance and usability/
14:58.26 mafm and that MGED console had a lot of menus to do things... so that's why I was wondering what were your plans about that
14:59.15 brlcad you did see the IOE prototype?
14:59.35 mafm what's that, the video that you sent me a few weeks ago?
14:59.45 brlcad yes
15:01.02 brlcad take another look at that if you need, http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov
15:01.10 mafm I did but I already forgot :D
15:01.19 mafm yup, already downloading it
15:01.36 brlcad try to use that as a guide for the gui, see how close you can get (both in look and interaction)
15:02.15 brlcad because if you can, that captures most of the basic layout/interaction requirements
15:03.05 brlcad menus, pages, buttons, menubars, drag n drop, non-overlapping panels, overlay input, etc
15:03.12 mafm OK, watching it from stream
15:03.52 brlcad doesn't have to necessarily include the task manager or the same tasks of course, yours are somewhat different
15:04.02 mafm ah, another question that I remembered now -- how about the target systems? As many as possible, only Unices, only Win+Mac+Lin?
15:04.07 brlcad but the *gui* aspects are still about the same
15:04.55 brlcad in general, as many as possible, though focusing on the latter win/mac/lin
15:05.40 brlcad if rbgui really needs a fair bit of work to work on mac/linux then I'd leave that to someone else (unless it's got some fundamental limitation)
15:05.48 brlcad so you can make progress on the gui
15:08.52 brlcad in fact, I only mentioned rt^3dbd so that you can add the right hooks to get geometry for the 3D display -- you could just as easily fake it
15:10.43 mafm heh, the video is very good
15:11.39 mafm (lin including bsds, we don't want Erik to get mad at us!)
15:12.37 mafm RBGui needs only some small pieces from the OS
15:13.14 brlcad including mac almost implicitly gives you *bsd
15:13.16 mafm they have it abstracted in a platform manager, where you can fill it the way to get a directory listing, keyboard autorepeat, and things like that -- but they're 10 or less
15:14.04 brlcad cool, some of that we cover in libbu
15:14.24 brlcad starseeker actually just added a routine for getting a directory listing from nix platforms
15:15.07 mafm yep, and in fact they're manageable enough so I think that I could take responsibility for that for RBGui
15:15.38 mafm that would boost a bit probably the community interest in it, and thus it would be a benefit for both projects :)
15:23.09 brlcad yep
15:31.35 mafm what's that ioe thing?
15:32.08 mafm Institute of Education University of London?
15:58.23 ``Erik but but but what about solaris? and aix? and hpux? and irix? and uh, beos? uhhh, amigaos? what about my commodore 64? :D haiku? uh, awos? hrmmm, lispos?
15:58.29 ``Erik :D
16:00.28 ``Erik "talk is cheap. supply exceeds demand"
16:00.59 mafm I think that we should target DOS users too
16:01.16 mafm and make the GUI ascii-art worthy
16:01.20 mafm :)
16:01.51 mafm I think that the #defines used by RBGui are exactly POSIX, WIN32 and OSX
16:03.18 mafm anything with usual file-accesing interfaces and X11 should work
16:04.53 mafm http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Please-Pay-000.aspx
16:05.07 mafm "A system call that should never failed has fail"
16:05.44 mafm It seems that There Might Be Dragons with our Win32 port too :)
16:06.03 mafm fail* has failed* even
16:16.12 *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
16:18.05 brlcad mafm: he says what it is in the introduction
16:19.17 mafm oh
16:19.53 mafm it took a while until I put the headphones on, so I had missed those first seconds
16:20.25 mafm anyway I knew it, the ideal operation environment is command-line-driven! :P
16:30.06 *** join/#brlcad andre|away_ (n=chatzill@189.71.10.209)
16:33.34 mafm buff, I'd better go out for a walk, I can't concentrate today
16:34.36 mafm see you, folks
16:43.11 brlcad heh
16:43.28 brlcad driven != always accessible
17:29.04 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-83-30.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:07.25 pacman87 hmmm, it looks like ehy's curve() is useless
18:07.59 pacman87 does a nice job calculating, then overwrites the values at the end...
18:51.19 brlcad hehe
18:51.25 brlcad fix it! :)
18:53.39 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31386 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Temporarily commenting out the dump command.
18:58.16 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31387 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c setup.c): Temporarily commenting out the dump command.
18:58.43 pacman87 when is curve() used?
19:00.14 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ehy/ehy.c: fix curve() so the calculated values are actually used
19:01.28 brlcad I believe the curvature lighting model uses it
19:01.35 brlcad rt's -l option
19:01.40 brlcad (i think)
19:01.56 pacman87 i'm just wondering why ehy's curve was never caught
19:02.03 pacman87 it's been wrong since at least 2004
19:02.26 brlcad that lighting model isn't used very often
19:03.01 pacman87 is there a way to color the shape depending on the curvature at that point?
19:03.02 brlcad and ehy is a "specialized" shape not found too frequently in practice
19:03.17 brlcad that's what I'm saying, rt's lighting model
19:03.24 brlcad one of them is based on curvature
19:20.18 pacman87 rt -l isnt' right
19:30.34 poolio is having the worst friday the 13th ever
19:30.44 pacman87 poolio: why's that?
19:31.04 poolio Well...I was flying to Madison, WI through detroit. Made it to detroit, second leg was cancelled, the flight isn't until 5pm.
19:31.05 ``Erik you've only gotten 3 people with your chainsaw and it's already 3:30?
19:31.24 poolio I also spent the better part of today in a hospital in detroit so ... yeah. very unlucky day
19:54.02 prasad_ tim russert dead
19:55.29 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-214-111.dyn.iinet.net.au)
20:18.56 poolio prasad_: that too :(
20:39.55 *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-26-22.perm.iinet.net.au)
21:11.08 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor mod.
21:11.39 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Display.tcl Dm.tcl): Minor mods.
21:16.18 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31391 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Moved wdb_log, wdb_result, wdb_result_str and wdb_result_flags to struct ged.
21:17.20 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31392 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Mods related to libged.
21:18.40 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871429.dsl.bell.ca)
21:19.17 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31393 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/argv.c: Before freeing argv[i], make sure it's not NULL
21:44.03 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31394 10/brlcad/trunk/ (24 files in 4 dirs): Checking in for safety. These are mods related to fleshing out libged.
21:50.34 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31395 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: Drawing routines from dg_obj
21:50.58 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31396 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Added draw.c
22:45.10 *** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-72-245-122-226.mclnva23.covad.net)

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.