IRC log for #brlcad on 20080623

00:30.55 ``Erik interesting
00:31.22 ``Erik "and sometimes osx"
02:57.05 brlcad downloaded the osx binary, no go (must be intel me thinks, at a ppc atm)
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09:49.23 mafm hallo
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12:14.46 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31550 10/brlcad/trunk/ (1124 files in 80 dirs): Boost (header only include library) initial import, using bcp
12:32.59 brlcad heh, wow, that's big for header only :)
12:33.14 brlcad initial import of what?
12:42.27 mafm brlcad: did you have the chance to test the branch
12:42.28 mafm ?
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13:21.07 *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@71.170.63.120)
13:27.52 pacman87 morning, all
13:31.28 mafm 'allo pacman87 :)
13:36.24 d_rossberg morning pacman97
13:37.54 pacman87 d_rossberg: i've looked into the sketch primitive, and there's 4 types of segments to deal with: line segment, circular arc, bezier spline, and nurbs
13:40.04 pacman87 for now, i'm thinking it would be best to limit the order of the splines to be able to solve intersetions analytically
13:40.20 d_rossberg right, and in the extrude the nurb isn't implemented, probable because it isn't trivial
13:41.20 pacman87 so my overall plan is to start with just line segments, and get them working, before moving on the the more complex ones
13:41.23 d_rossberg i would say you have to multiply the degree of the sketch with the one of the spline to get the order of the surface
13:41.48 pacman87 'degree of the sketch'?
13:42.28 d_rossberg i mean the degree of the segments (line is 1, arc is 2 etc.)
13:43.09 pacman87 and the spline is for sweeping
13:43.20 pacman87 sorry, i'm still just thinking revolve at the moment
13:44.17 d_rossberg it depends on where your priorities are, i would start with a degree 2 sketch and degree 2 spline (or revolve)
13:44.31 d_rossberg i.e. both build from 3 point beziers
13:45.02 pacman87 so do you think revolve should only be a subset of sweep?
13:45.35 pacman87 like how sph is really an ell?
13:45.50 d_rossberg you can reach a revolve effect from a sweep on a circle
13:46.13 d_rossberg however, i like the idea to have a distinct revolve primitive
13:46.38 pacman87 right, because then i can make revolve-specific performance enhancements
13:46.47 pacman87 that dont' necessarliy apply to all sweeps
13:48.38 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31551 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/rbgui/Gui/Source/PosixPlatformManager.cpp: Fix for lame error preventing the fix for autorepeat behaviour to work -- the huge amounts of unimportant warnings were masking this.
13:50.19 d_rossberg if you once got the revolve you could perhaps develop the sweep from it like: "revolves" along a spline
13:50.28 pacman87 one problem i see is determine which segments to test for intersection, or to test all of them
13:51.12 d_rossberg in a first attempt: all segments
13:52.00 pacman87 my general plan is to essentially take the 'reverse' of the sweep path, and apply that transformation to the ray, and project the ray onto the 2d sketch surface
13:52.45 pacman87 ie, if you 'unbend' a revolve, the ray becomes a hyperbola
13:53.56 d_rossberg your plan sounds still good :)
13:54.02 pacman87 and looking toward sweep, is there already a way to store a 3d spline, or will i have to creat something for that specifically?
13:57.09 pacman87 should the 3d path spline be created/edited seperately, or inside the sweep only?
13:58.26 d_rossberg store the spline: hard to say, it depends on the spline, there is the bu_list but this may be not optimal
13:58.51 pacman87 could that be its own primitive, like sketch?
13:59.55 pacman87 so if you want two parallel sweeps, you specify the same sketch and path, and change the vertex
14:00.30 d_rossberg it could be an own primitive but this also means that it is its own live in some sense
14:00.50 d_rossberg (3D sketch)
14:01.32 d_rossberg you could get two parallel sweeps by copying the primitive ...
14:02.54 pacman87 if you copy, and have to edit the path, will those changes affect both?
14:03.13 d_rossberg no
14:04.09 pacman87 and if you wanted that behavior, you could copy the path
14:04.13 d_rossberg but you could add a primitive twice to the geometry with different matrices
14:06.37 pacman87 what problems do you see with storing the path seperately?
14:07.06 d_rossberg but you have a point there: i would be a nice feature to be able to sweep different shapes along a sweep line
14:07.41 d_rossberg with the sweep path the problem might not be so big:
14:08.24 d_rossberg because you define it, you may define it in a way you won't get any problems with your sweep primitive
14:09.08 d_rossberg i.e. "a 3D sketch has at most degree 2 spline segments"
14:09.58 pacman87 would there be a practical use for a 3d sketch besides the sweep?
14:11.18 d_rossberg i would expect it to have a practical use because the large CAD packages have this
14:12.22 pacman87 the only thing i remember using 3d sketches for is for sweeps/lofts
14:13.33 pacman87 but if there are other uses, i'd be better to not restrict the path, and just have a flag for isSweepable
14:14.27 d_rossberg the sketches in BRL-CAD have a "comment" role, but i can't see why these "comments" should be 2D only
14:14.57 pacman87 wasnt' that on the list of improvements?
14:17.25 d_rossberg i don't like the idea with the flag, this would make it possible to destroy the sweeps inadvertently
14:18.22 pacman87 while editing the path?
14:19.03 d_rossberg i'm not sure but could the parametrics/constraint help?
14:19.58 pacman87 i think the p/c stuff is about physical relationships, and the problem here is with the math behind it all
14:21.02 pacman87 it's also possible to set the isSweepable flag when you create the path, and require the user to explicitly change it
14:21.10 pacman87 so if it's set, it doesnt allow changes to break it
14:21.33 pacman87 but then that becomes close to a whole different primitive
14:21.45 pacman87 ie, path vs 3dsketch
14:22.32 d_rossberg the is-a relationship works only in one direction
14:23.02 pacman87 path is a sketch3d
14:23.13 d_rossberg right
14:23.16 pacman87 with additional restrictions
14:25.24 d_rossberg an other solution would be to have default replacements for "unknown" segments (e.g. build a spline of line segments from a nurb curve)
14:26.42 pacman87 using a bezier curve would require fewer segments
14:26.54 pacman87 and keep the surface curvature better
14:27.35 pacman87 since i'll have to check each segment in the sketch
14:27.45 d_rossberg only if you have an algorithm for converting a nurb into a bezier spline
14:27.56 pacman87 true :)
14:29.33 pacman87 the other issue with is-a is that C doesnt really do inheritance
14:30.22 pacman87 i suppose it'd be done using the functab
14:31.06 d_rossberg you may get the beziers if you attach the border conditions to the line segments
14:32.06 d_rossberg functab: this is more an replacement for a switch ... case
14:33.05 d_rossberg i.e. switch (object_type) ... case hyp: ...
14:34.14 pacman87 well, if path just references the sketch3d functions when it doesnt' need to change them, and references its own functions when there are changes
14:38.38 d_rossberg this would only mean you are reusing code but actual you have two diferent primitives
14:39.47 pacman87 is that a problem?
14:41.45 d_rossberg reusing code isn't a problem but it looks like you should care for the path and if there is a 3dsketch it might reuse your code
14:42.51 d_rossberg we would need something like a validator connected to the primitives
14:43.14 clock_ win 12
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14:45.57 pacman87 so just get the path working now, and worry about sketch3d later
14:46.07 d_rossberg this validator could be implemented as a new functab method (if this don't go to far away)
14:46.21 d_rossberg path vs. sketch3d: yes
14:46.25 pacman87 what would be validated?
14:46.34 d_rossberg the primitive
14:46.37 pacman87 order of sketch and path?
14:47.09 d_rossberg a validator is a funktion which returns for a primitive true or false
14:47.25 d_rossberg true if it's ok, false if not
14:47.31 pacman87 ah, ok
14:48.12 d_rossberg i.e. an editor has to call the validator to test the changed primitive
14:48.24 pacman87 like how primitives do basic checking before prep() and others
14:48.40 pacman87 but moved to it's own function
14:48.43 pacman87 make sense
14:48.46 pacman87 makes*
14:50.56 d_rossberg but in practice it's not so easy e.g. there should be a hint to the user if the validator fails
14:57.59 pacman87 right
14:58.43 pacman87 i think i've answered your email question, is there anything else i missed?
14:59.51 pacman87 i'll update the wiki for revolve, and create a page for sweep to outline everything
15:06.12 d_rossberg this is what i wanted to ask you for: document your plans for revolve and sweep on the brlcad.org wiki
15:07.09 d_rossberg i'm full of hope :)
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16:15.57 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31552 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Adding window which will act as taskbar. Only the skeleton, at the moment.
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16:22.38 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31553 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiTaskbar.h: Fixing doxygen comments.
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17:39.30 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31554 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Removing debugging messages
17:40.36 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31555 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (17 files in 4 dirs): Add includes and graphics through Lesson 5
17:41.42 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31556 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/learning_boolean_expressions.xml: Whoopsie, add the xml file as well as the images
17:48.46 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31557 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (8 files):
17:48.46 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: Introducing Window Base class, so the rest of the windows are derived from it.
17:48.46 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: This allows to have some operations factored out, and to have lists of windows
17:48.46 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: present and so on (which is immediately useful for the taskbar, in example).
18:05.28 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31558 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Delegating more functionality in the windows base class.
18:08.34 mafm brlcad, are you back?
18:15.19 pacman87 what's the best (ie, user friendly) way to specify the start/end planes of the revolve?
18:17.46 starseeker Are your start/end planes constrained relative to each other?
18:18.18 pacman87 i know i need the revolve axis (point + vector)
18:18.37 pacman87 and a way to specify which plane passing though that axis is the start plane
18:20.08 pacman87 they could be constrained relativly by giving the first plane, and an agnle
18:20.09 pacman87 angle
18:20.26 starseeker Hmm - I'd guess for full generality you'd need to specify another vector perpendicular to the revolve axis, but that's just off the cuff
18:20.36 pacman87 that's what i was thinking too
18:20.46 starseeker yes, once the start plane is identified the end plane could be identified by an angle
18:21.03 pacman87 would you perfer an angle, or a second vector to define the end plane?
18:21.08 starseeker angle
18:21.09 pacman87 ok
18:21.38 starseeker you might optionally take a second vector, if there is a way to work it
18:22.11 pacman87 i dont' think you can overload 'in'
18:22.53 pacman87 though i suppose once the p/c is fully integrated with the primitives, you could jsut use that
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18:23.40 starseeker well, you could do like ell1 and ell2
18:24.05 starseeker er ell and ell1 rather
18:24.16 starseeker have a sweep and sweep1 primitive
18:24.33 pacman87 what should i name the revolve?
18:24.35 pacman87 rev?
18:24.54 starseeker iirc, ell and ell1 exist because they take different parameters for the same geometric shape
18:25.33 starseeker hmm. rev is less typing, but extrude uses the full name...
18:25.49 pacman87 but ext is a filesystem
18:25.59 starseeker and rev is revision :-)
18:26.03 pacman87 right
18:26.17 pacman87 rvl
18:26.35 starseeker It's a brlcad question, but my sense would be to go ahead and use revolve to keep it consistent with extrude
18:26.49 pacman87 and sweep instead of swp
18:26.57 pacman87 swp looks like swap
18:27.18 starseeker right - extrude needs a sketch, and so will revolve/sweep yes?
18:27.23 pacman87 yes
18:28.25 pacman87 i'll have to specify the point/axis in both the 3D side, and the 2D sketch side
18:28.30 starseeker I think pipe is the only non-sketch based primitive with a full name...
18:28.42 starseeker yeah, check with brlcad
18:28.44 pacman87 sketch is too
18:29.06 starseeker heh - is sketch sketch based? :-P
18:29.41 starseeker probably not, strictly speaking
18:29.49 pacman87 no, it doesnt' reference a sketch
18:30.07 starseeker My instinct is to go with full names as being more descriptive, now that we have tab completion
18:30.26 starseeker although I don't know if that works for primitive type, come to think of it
18:32.52 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31559 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx GuiConsole.h): Properly center console vertically
18:57.08 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31560 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiTaskbar.cxx GuiTaskbar.h): Implementing the buttons in the task bar (not complete)
18:57.19 mafm I have to go now, see you guys
18:58.40 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31561 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Add lesson 6
19:04.16 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31562 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs): Remove tcl.c from libged. Added ged_obj.c to libtclcad. Call Ged_Init from Tclcad_Init. Added struct ged_obj to tclcad.h.
19:19.06 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31563 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Added ged.c to Makefile.am. Added erase.c and erase_all.c to CMakeLists.txt
19:21.08 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31564 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Add Lessson 7
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20:04.10 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31565 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 8
20:33.39 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31566 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 9
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20:34.24 starseeker attempts to uncross eyeballs
20:51.41 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31567 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 10
20:55.28 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31568 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Split out the ls command from wdb_obj. Added the ls command to ged_obj.
21:06.40 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31569 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 11
22:05.00 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31570 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 12
22:37.58 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31571 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (12 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 13
23:09.43 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31572 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 14
23:30.32 pacman87 so there's a 2d point, but no 2d vector?
23:46.46 pacman87 make[2]: *** No rule to make target `solver_test.c', needed by `solver_test.o'. Stop.
23:49.21 poolio pacman87: distclean :) I had that same issue
23:49.36 pacman87 poolio: thanks
23:53.33 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31573 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 15

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