| 00:24.18 | *** join/#brlcad houdin8888 (n=houdin88@ip24-250-205-120.ga.at.cox.net) | |
| 00:25.36 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31574 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 16 |
| 00:25.46 | starseeker | Wooooo-hooooooo! |
| 00:26.54 | houdin8888 | Hi all. I'm new to this BRL-CAD. Just wanted to say hello. |
| 00:27.08 | starseeker | peels eyeballs off monitor |
| 00:27.13 | pacman87 | houdin8888: hi |
| 00:27.19 | starseeker | howdy and welcome |
| 00:27.30 | houdin8888 | thank you. thank you |
| 00:28.24 | houdin8888 | just trying to get me teeth into some CAD experience. thought i'd go the open-source route. glad there's so much out there. |
| 00:29.46 | houdin8888 | would anyone suggest an easy tutorial for someone (myself) wishing to start using BRL-CAD on MS Vista? |
| 00:32.32 | houdin8888 | i wanted to try the "benchmark" images using script run.sh, but couldn't find the "bench" directory. |
| 00:34.31 | houdin8888 | hmm. did i say something wrong? |
| 00:35.58 | houdin8888 | ?lib |
| 00:39.41 | starseeker | heh - no |
| 00:39.44 | starseeker | we're in and out |
| 00:40.37 | houdin8888 | ic, its ok. i know i have a very high learning curve to climb. |
| 00:40.55 | starseeker | For tutorials the standard starting point is here: http://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 00:41.30 | houdin8888 | ahh.. yes,. I have that one. thanks. |
| 00:42.19 | houdin8888 | i read the first pdf in the series... haven't yet digested this 2nd pdf |
| 00:42.53 | starseeker | The second one is the "real" introductory documentation |
| 00:43.07 | starseeker | in the sense that it is the volume that gets you working with CAD geometry |
| 00:43.09 | houdin8888 | i'm beginning to see that. |
| 00:43.47 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
| 00:43.55 | starseeker | Hey yukonbob |
| 00:43.59 | houdin8888 | Hello! |
| 00:44.02 | yukonbob | hey starseeker |
| 00:44.30 | starseeker | is now MUCH closer to having a reasonable Volume II docbook conversion |
| 00:44.34 | yukonbob | houdin8888: expect a _steep_, steep learning curve, and once you stop and look around, find it's all been worth it ;) |
| 00:44.52 | houdin8888 | i am very hopeful |
| 00:45.18 | yukonbob | <yoda>There is no hope; only do, or do not</yoda> |
| 00:45.38 | pacman87 | there is no try |
| 00:45.38 | houdin8888 | hehe |
| 00:45.40 | starseeker | houdin8888: Do you have any experience in other CAD systems? |
| 00:45.41 | yukonbob | ^--- bastardization, but wth... |
| 00:45.52 | houdin8888 | googlesketch |
| 00:46.07 | yukonbob | houdin8888: CSG (ie: POVRay)? |
| 00:46.39 | houdin8888 | i must admit near total ignorance.. but, been a long time wannabe |
| 00:46.52 | starseeker | OK. I could go Yoda and say "you must unlearn what you have learned" but it would be more accurate to say that prior experience is not terribly applicable to BRL-CAD |
| 00:47.17 | starseeker | It's a very DIFFERENT way of modeling for most folks |
| 00:47.35 | houdin8888 | i like the idea that BRL-CAD was used to predict ballistic effectiveness |
| 00:47.43 | starseeker | s/was/is |
| 00:47.46 | starseeker | still in active use |
| 00:48.01 | starseeker | although BRL-CAD itself doesn't do the military predictions |
| 00:48.01 | yukonbob | houdin8888: you're getting into the advanced stuff; long path to balistic modelling ;) |
| 00:48.12 | starseeker | it is used by other software that does |
| 00:48.16 | houdin8888 | true... but, i like pyrotechnics |
| 00:48.29 | starseeker | heh - sorry, no explosions |
| 00:48.37 | yukonbob | predicts somebody is going to be disappointed... |
| 00:49.00 | starseeker | If you want to animate stuff being blown up, Blender is probably a better bet ;-) |
| 00:49.15 | houdin8888 | no disappointment.. I'm committed to learning this computer graphics modeling program |
| 00:49.21 | yukonbob | prefers the easy route and goes to a movie |
| 00:49.24 | starseeker | can't understand why their second movie project didn't get more notice... |
| 00:49.37 | starseeker | Big Buck Bunny or something like that |
| 00:49.46 | yukonbob | hrmm... first I've heard of it... |
| 00:49.55 | starseeker | one sec... |
| 00:49.57 | yukonbob | hits alta vista |
| 00:50.15 | starseeker | www.bigbuckbunny.org |
| 00:51.13 | starseeker | Not only did they do it with Blender, but all the content files are available under creative commons licenses |
| 00:51.21 | yukonbob | neat |
| 00:51.40 | starseeker | figures someone will be doing a bunny vs. penguin faceoff at some point... |
| 00:51.47 | yukonbob | we're undergoing a mini rennaisance with media and licensing... |
| 00:51.50 | starseeker | It's near Pixar level animation |
| 00:53.25 | starseeker | is still annoyed at slashdot for not giving them a front page article |
| 00:53.46 | houdin8888 | nice find (bigbuckbunny) |
| 00:54.30 | starseeker | It's the successor project to Elephant's Dream, which was the Blender project's first such move. Well done, very artsy, very weird viewing experience |
| 00:54.55 | starseeker | Big Buck Bunny was intended to appeal to a wider audience |
| 00:55.20 | starseeker | Ah, well |
| 00:56.01 | starseeker | They may have tried to avoid the slashdot effect, given how large the movie files are |
| 00:56.41 | starseeker | either everyone's watching it or I chased everyone away ;-) |
| 00:56.59 | houdin8888 | i'm watchin the movie trailer |
| 00:57.04 | starseeker | heh |
| 00:58.08 | starseeker | must get out of here, back on later |
| 00:58.20 | houdin8888 | nice to meet ya |
| 01:12.32 | *** join/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-229-127-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 01:12.56 | Byron1 | how can I create an empty box with no top |
| 01:13.50 | brlcad | Byron1: depends what sort of box, thickness of walls, etc |
| 01:14.35 | Byron1 | I would like to create a box similiar to a battery |
| 01:14.44 | brlcad | one of the easiest ways is to just create an arb8 (a box), then subtract a slightly smaller arb8 from it that is shifed up |
| 01:15.26 | brlcad | the 'inside' command will create an inner arb8 easily, then you can just extrude the top face to make it "open" |
| 01:15.37 | Byron1 | Could the box then not have a top? |
| 01:15.58 | Byron1 | How can you extrude the top |
| 01:17.09 | brlcad | ~starseeker++ |
| 01:17.13 | brlcad | nice doc progress! |
| 01:17.54 | brlcad | Byron1: yes, the same arb8 that makes the exterior can be made to remove the top |
| 01:18.24 | brlcad | when you're editing an arb8, one of the (many) editing options is moving faces |
| 01:19.18 | Byron1 | If you move a face can it be removed from the box? |
| 01:19.20 | brlcad | pacman87: yeah, 'revolve' and 'sweep' probably best -- the old short names were from ancient days where every keystroke was precious and cryptic names were the standard convention |
| 01:20.11 | brlcad | Byron1: "yes and no" .. you cannot have an arb8 with a side missing, that's topologically not solid geometry |
| 01:20.24 | brlcad | but you can certainly make a box with a hole in the top |
| 01:20.35 | brlcad | two primitives, bam |
| 01:22.00 | brlcad | the geometry must always preserve a solidity constraint, hence solid primitives -- even with brep, it wouldn't be allowed |
| 01:22.36 | brlcad | Byron1: have you gone through the basic mged tutorials? .. that might help explain things a bit |
| 01:23.18 | Byron1 | Yes I have gone through the tutorials. And they have helped out a lot. |
| 01:24.29 | Byron1 | I thought that I could make a glass box with a steal plate inside and be able to see the plate |
| 01:25.17 | brlcad | pacman87: there is and is not a 3D spline structure you can use.. openNURBS provides it (as do several of our older tools internally like 'track', the anim tools, and joint solving) |
| 01:25.19 | Byron1 | Also I figured I could do a thin arb8 to make the bottom non transparent |
| 01:25.37 | brlcad | sounds reasonable |
| 01:26.50 | Byron1 | if the top was transparent I figured that that would give the impression to the top not there |
| 01:33.17 | brlcad | it would if it was fully transparent |
| 01:33.52 | brlcad | the thing is those are region properties, you'd have to create a separate object for each side of the box and make just the top fully transparent .. which would be silly |
| 01:35.14 | brlcad | makes a quick example |
| 01:42.30 | brlcad | Byron1: http://brlcad.org/tmp/box.png |
| 01:42.57 | brlcad | that's four primitives, two that make the glass box (that has no top), one for the bottom checkered plate, and the sphere |
| 01:44.02 | brlcad | Byron1: and the geometry for that is here: http://brlcad.org/tmp/box.g |
| 01:50.06 | brlcad | starseeker: you'll see a lot of "very weird viewing experiences" at siggraph, even more so than elephant's dream |
| 01:50.48 | brlcad | lots of really interesting (and huge) artistic influence.. they tend to be the fun side of siggraph :) |
| 02:08.28 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31575 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: add a 2d point type to finish out the set, plus some minor ws consistency updates |
| 02:15.12 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31576 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: busted, define the right names so it'll compile |
| 02:16.40 | pacman87 | brlcad: there was a 2d point, the 2d vector was missing |
| 02:18.43 | brlcad | just a bad comment |
| 02:18.59 | pacman87 | just checking ;) |
| 02:19.03 | brlcad | nods |
| 02:20.56 | brlcad | also, wouldn't worry about aligning the sketch (does extrude try to?) |
| 02:21.57 | brlcad | pacman87: also, just background info, it was missing simply because nobody had needed them yet (at least from a vmath perspective) |
| 02:23.19 | brlcad | try to only add things exactly when they're needed, otherwise maintenance grows faster than is useful if you develop speculatively |
| 02:23.37 | brlcad | rather, the cost of that maintenance is high |
| 02:24.01 | brlcad | that goes for most of the code in brl-cad, though some parts less than others (i.e. they need refactoring) |
| 02:24.38 | pacman87 | aligning the sketch with what? |
| 02:25.24 | brlcad | you'd asked assuming the y-axis |
| 02:25.37 | brlcad | or using point/vector |
| 02:26.10 | pacman87 | right |
| 02:26.35 | pacman87 | so you're saying just to use the y axis? |
| 02:29.08 | brlcad | I think that's a safe assumption |
| 02:29.27 | brlcad | just because, as example, I don't recall extrude accounting for sketch rotation in any way |
| 02:29.32 | brlcad | not much different |
| 02:30.17 | brlcad | the only thing I can think of is that it might require some changes to the sketch editor to get something that perfectly clamps to that y-axis |
| 02:30.42 | pacman87 | for extrude, you give the height vector, and one of the axes (i forget which), and it aligns the sketch with that |
| 02:30.46 | brlcad | I believe it dynamically scales the domain when the bounds are reached |
| 02:31.33 | pacman87 | if it helps, i could just ignore everything in the -x side of the sketch |
| 02:31.57 | pacman87 | so the lines just have to cross the y-axis instead of stopping |
| 02:33.45 | brlcad | i'm thinking you might just have to auto-adjust the x-domain |
| 02:34.10 | brlcad | i.e. shift it to the right so it meets the first point/curve |
| 02:34.22 | brlcad | it == y-axis |
| 02:34.49 | pacman87 | so treat the y-axis as though it passes through the first point? |
| 02:36.20 | brlcad | ideally first piece of the sketch (which might not be a point), but sure point would be a decent second best |
| 02:36.38 | brlcad | first left-most point |
| 02:37.02 | poolio | brlcad: sorry I've been so inactive the past week...hopefully I'll get more done this one :) |
| 02:37.19 | pacman87 | i haven't actually used the sketch editor, so i dont' really know what im talking about |
| 02:37.25 | brlcad | poolio: hope so :) |
| 02:37.41 | brlcad | pacman87: you're not missing much :) |
| 02:38.09 | brlcad | it was a *very* rudimentary interface to have some means to tweak sketches that were being imported from other CAD systems |
| 02:38.17 | pacman87 | my parents and little bro are gone (college visiting), so i'm free to eat, sleep, and code for the next two days :) |
| 02:38.37 | brlcad | not intended for day-to-day use really .. with sweeps and revolves using them, having a new sketch editor becomes a much higher priority ;) |
| 02:38.45 | brlcad | maybe next gsoc follow-up ;) |
| 02:42.56 | brlcad | pacman87: awesome (regarding intense coding) woot :) |
| 02:43.34 | brlcad | pacman87: I hope you don't mind, but I sent out an announcement to our news mailing list about your progress on hyp |
| 02:44.17 | pacman87 | that reminds me, i still need to finish those last few things |
| 02:44.28 | pacman87 | revolve took over my brain too soon :) |
| 02:48.09 | pacman87 | when's the june release going out? |
| 02:50.32 | brlcad | don't worry about those few things, keep up on revolve |
| 02:50.40 | brlcad | someone else can wrap up those other pieces |
| 02:50.56 | pacman87 | someone else (tm) |
| 02:51.01 | brlcad | document them into the TODO file |
| 02:51.16 | pacman87 | ok, i wrote down the list |
| 02:51.55 | pacman87 | it's a great feeling when i can find a mathematical proof for my intuition |
| 02:52.05 | brlcad | hehe |
| 02:58.30 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31577 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc2g.c: good gravy, there were three different ws/indent styles going on in here. make it more consistent. |
| 03:12.33 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31578 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc2g.c: more cleanup. turn the comment blocks into doxygen blocks, reorder functions so forward declarations are not necessary. |
| 03:14.58 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 03:22.56 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31579 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): deprecate HPT_LEN, HVECT_LEN, and ELEMENTS_PER_PT so that the defines are consistently ELEMENTS_PER_[type sans _t] across the board where they match the type they refer to. |
| 03:27.37 | poolio | brlcad: do you think the nmg structure -> brep will be useful in the long wrong? For arb8 it seems simpler to just duplicate the tess() code |
| 03:28.42 | brlcad | heh, subliminal slip? the long wrong sounds fun |
| 03:29.56 | poolio | haha. long run. uh oh :) |
| 03:30.15 | brlcad | no entiendo lo que dices |
| 03:30.17 | brlcad | explain |
| 03:31.10 | poolio | So, I'm working on just going from the struct model, the NMG model of the arb8 generated by tess and converting that to b-rep |
| 03:31.50 | poolio | But it is going to be a pain in terms of keeping track of objects/etc... and it seems easier to just hard code values (similar to breplicator and such) and duplicate a lot of the code from tess() |
| 03:32.04 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31580 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: woot, 3-fer-won .. the windows installer is better now, nsis goodness should be version aware now. |
| 03:32.51 | brlcad | breplicator is a *horrible* example to follow for *anything* .. other than simply understanding how the ON_Brep type works |
| 03:33.05 | brlcad | just so you know :) |
| 03:33.09 | pacman87 | nice name ;) |
| 03:33.31 | brlcad | there is/was no intention of keeping the tool around, it is a testing tool |
| 03:33.50 | brlcad | same with the two brep_ examples |
| 03:34.07 | brlcad | what objects do you have to keep track of? |
| 03:34.16 | brlcad | for an arb, there's just one shell |
| 03:34.36 | poolio | I understand that, I was just referencing the fact that to connect proper elements and such you need to keep track of them, and doing so with NMG seems more difficult than just doing it from a tess()-like method |
| 03:35.11 | brlcad | quite possibly true |
| 03:35.12 | poolio | Well, the vertices, edges, all the various elements |
| 03:35.24 | brlcad | i'd see how many other tess() routines will be directly useful |
| 03:35.27 | poolio | Although I suppose being able to work with the NMG may be useful in the future |
| 03:35.52 | brlcad | say you wrote some completely generic struct model -> ON_Brep routine (which you're going to have to write anyways |
| 03:36.05 | poolio | A lot of what I'm doing is kind of reverting the tess() work...it calculates what I need, puts it in NMG, and then I need to extract it. It'd be much easier to just work with the calculated values |
| 03:36.17 | brlcad | e.g. to support NMG primitives.. :) |
| 03:36.22 | poolio | fun fun :) |
| 03:36.31 | brlcad | s/primitives/primitive/ |
| 03:36.59 | brlcad | not a huge deal, /me thinks -- your call |
| 03:37.11 | brlcad | but I do think you'll end up needing that routine eventually |
| 03:37.16 | poolio | does NMG support non-linear curves? |
| 03:37.31 | brlcad | so if you have to tackle the hard problem, might as well avoid wasting the time redoing all the little easier problems |
| 03:37.44 | poolio | Yeah, makes sense...if I write it properly than I'm done the NMG primitive work...maybe I should just start there and not work specifically on arb8 |
| 03:38.02 | brlcad | yeah, sorta -- the bspline primitive is built on top of nmg |
| 03:38.27 | brlcad | (i.e. the old nurbs implementation) |
| 03:38.47 | poolio | ah k. but NMG is just lines? |
| 03:38.52 | brlcad | arbitrary bspline brep surfaces |
| 03:39.13 | poolio | The paper I borrowed talks about future work to support more types of curves in NMG |
| 03:39.20 | brlcad | nmg is technically just the structure (the 'uses') .. so it could be either |
| 03:39.33 | brlcad | in practice, they're all linear segments afair |
| 03:40.03 | brlcad | yeah, the entire bspline system is built on top of and/or into nmg |
| 03:40.22 | brlcad | you have all the uses references, but the things they're using are geometry (which can be anything) |
| 03:41.17 | brlcad | that's where opennurbs decided to pick a different set of terminology where historic used the 'uses' concept to distinguish topological structure from underlying geometry |
| 03:42.15 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31581 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: I wrote a script that checks for missing files in a dist some time ago |
| 03:43.32 | *** part/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-229-127-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 03:43.49 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31582 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: promote testing the root solver patch |
| 03:44.03 | brlcad | last Byron1 |
| 03:44.12 | brlcad | er, cya |
| 03:51.52 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31583 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: |
| 03:51.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: more cleanup, promote integrating last summer's opennurbs update and reviewing |
| 03:51.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: the root solver. raytrace progress can be obtained by sending a signal |
| 03:51.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: (SIGUSR1), adrt was updated/decoupled, and environ doesn't seem as interesting |
| 03:51.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: as it used to. |
| 04:00.13 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31584 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: |
| 04:00.13 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: nice.. it's been hella long since I've apparently reviewed everything.. more |
| 04:00.13 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: completed. indentation was run, eclectic was (briefly) reviewed, autogen.sh is |
| 04:00.13 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: recursive, configure doesn't test stuff it doesn't need to, center of presented |
| 04:00.13 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: areas are implemented, we have mirror around arbitrary vectors, and there's a |
| 04:00.16 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: script to parse sf.net trackers |
| 04:26.43 | starseeker | gets vmplayer working and is impressed by Haiku |
| 04:26.47 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31585 10/brlcad/trunk/ (27 files in 2 dirs): apparently pkg-config wants the files to have the same name as the internal name, who woulda thunkd it. |
| 04:29.19 | starseeker | wonders how he's supposed to download stuff without a browser in the image... |
| 04:29.51 | starseeker | ah ha - wget |
| 04:29.56 | starseeker | of course |
| 04:30.38 | brlcad | or curl |
| 04:30.53 | brlcad | curl is slightly more prevalent than wget |
| 04:31.20 | starseeker | huh. wonder how I stumbled into wget first |
| 04:31.29 | starseeker | checks for curl... |
| 04:32.41 | brlcad | i believe wget might be older and it's good for copying sites (recursively) .. curl is a generalized URL tool |
| 04:32.50 | starseeker | ah |
| 04:32.50 | brlcad | curl -O http://brlcad.org/index.html |
| 04:33.13 | brlcad | curl http://brlcad.org/tmp/box.g > /tmp/box.g |
| 04:33.51 | starseeker | ah, I'll bet that was it - recursive site copying |
| 04:33.58 | brlcad | should find either on most linux distros |
| 04:34.02 | starseeker | remembers attempting that with a few websites |
| 04:34.09 | brlcad | bsd depends on what was installed |
| 04:34.19 | brlcad | mac has curl by default, but no wget |
| 04:34.36 | brlcad | windows has neither by default |
| 04:34.51 | brlcad | forget what solaris did |
| 04:35.51 | starseeker | is continually amazed by how little Windows has by default |
| 04:38.53 | starseeker | you're mowing through stuff brlcad - nice work yourself ;-) |
| 04:39.04 | starseeker | is reading scrollback... |
| 04:39.28 | brlcad | not what I wanted to get to |
| 04:39.59 | starseeker | What were you hoping for? |
| 04:45.20 | brlcad | oh, didn't get to rtarea rewrite, libged/mged refactor bit, and new gui tested |
| 04:48.31 | starseeker | ah |
| 04:49.11 | starseeker | well, for what it's worth, nice image in the release news item :-) rtwizard I'm guessing? |
| 04:49.27 | brlcad | hm? |
| 04:49.36 | brlcad | nah, I just whipped that up on the fly |
| 04:49.41 | starseeker | really |
| 04:49.46 | starseeker | nice |
| 04:49.55 | starseeker | 'course, I'm biased |
| 04:50.46 | brlcad | :) |
| 04:55.57 | brlcad | oo, there's a thought .. starseeker, have you tried tessellating a tire yet? with/without tread? |
| 04:59.13 | pacman87 | hmmm, my numpad took over my mouse, and i'd don't know why (or how to turn it off) |
| 04:59.21 | pacman87 | numlock doesnt' matter |
| 05:02.46 | starseeker | nope |
| 05:03.01 | starseeker | tried tessellating the mustang tire and it blew up |
| 05:03.09 | starseeker | tries... |
| 05:03.58 | pacman87 | starseeker's developing a new weapon |
| 05:04.08 | starseeker | pheer the tire |
| 05:04.19 | pacman87 | exploding tires |
| 05:04.47 | starseeker | sees he has done one too many system updates since last recompiling BRL-CAD... |
| 05:12.47 | starseeker | oo, nope - might have caught the libged transformation at a bad point... ok, gcc, do your stuff |
| 05:20.31 | starseeker | wonders how long before 8 core supercomputers cost less than $300... |
| 05:25.42 | PrezKennedy | you can get 4 core computers for not too bad |
| 05:28.18 | starseeker | supposes he should just be more regular about recompiling... |
| 05:31.19 | starseeker | let's try this... |
| 05:31.58 | starseeker | facetize ftire tire |
| 05:32.07 | starseeker | and the cpu goes nuts... |
| 05:34.50 | brlcad | would expect it to take a long while |
| 05:35.12 | brlcad | and .. um .. yeah, like at least daily :) |
| 05:35.30 | starseeker | heh - I'll get going on the machine at work and forget to update my home machine |
| 05:35.37 | starseeker | should set up a cron job... |
| 05:35.54 | brlcad | I used to have it compile continuously via cron |
| 05:36.14 | starseeker | wonders what brlcad's power bills were linke |
| 05:36.18 | starseeker | er like |
| 05:36.24 | brlcad | shrugs |
| 05:36.30 | brlcad | i never turn my machines off |
| 05:38.14 | starseeker | BRL-CAD - it's not just for modeling, it's also a space heating application! |
| 05:39.31 | starseeker | well, considering this is the model WITHOUT tread, I'd say lord help anyone who has to do this |
| 05:41.03 | starseeker | will let it run 'til morning |
| 05:41.21 | brlcad | tries one with tread |
| 05:41.51 | starseeker | can hear the machines flinching from here |
| 05:44.37 | brlcad | wonders why OIS is trying to compile Linux interface files on Mac OS X |
| 05:46.19 | *** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=root@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw) | |
| 05:47.23 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-95-212.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 05:47.38 | brlcad | howdy Mouette |
| 05:47.59 | brlcad | which I could stay longer, gotta run though .. hopefully the e-mails were enough info |
| 05:50.16 | Mouette | ? |
| 06:11.18 | starseeker | bemusedly wonders if ReactOS could run the windows BRL-CAD binary |
| 07:04.30 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:19.35 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31586 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: duplicate entries removed |
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| 11:05.38 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt) | |
| 11:09.50 | mafm | hallo |
| 11:14.54 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 11:36.46 | brlcad | Mouette: I see why you were confused .. my messages hadn't sent, some bug in my e-mail client had them just sitting in my outbox |
| 11:36.54 | brlcad | howdy mafm! |
| 11:39.06 | mafm | hi brlcad |
| 11:39.14 | mafm | did you see my messages in the log? |
| 11:39.31 | brlcad | yep |
| 11:39.57 | mafm | so did you try to build it? if so, any problems/comments? |
| 11:40.20 | brlcad | I did, making progress, but it's quite far from seamless :) |
| 11:40.38 | brlcad | not through getting the dependencies to build |
| 11:41.34 | mafm | you mean the dependencies of OGRE? |
| 11:41.41 | brlcad | no problems as yet, just annoyance of dependencies and each one having different build settings .. a couple are just crap build configurations on mac |
| 11:41.45 | mafm | I think that the others don't have almost dependencies |
| 11:42.10 | mafm | I see |
| 11:42.27 | brlcad | rather linux-specific atm |
| 11:43.33 | mafm | apart from that, I'd like to talk a bit about which functionalities create, how they should appear, etc |
| 11:43.53 | mafm | in example, the taskbar of the video doesn't have "minimize" |
| 11:44.14 | mafm | and I don't know if you'd like it or not, |
| 11:44.57 | mafm | also I think that it would be good to have some window controls when clicking in the buttons of the taskbar (close, whatever) |
| 11:45.32 | mafm | and having buttons in the taskbar somewhere for tiling/fullscreen, and things like that |
| 11:49.58 | mafm | I have to go to lunch though, be back in a bit :) |
| 11:49.58 | brlcad | minimization is an application modality |
| 11:50.09 | brlcad | it handles it by providing new sheets |
| 11:52.25 | brlcad | each tabbed sheet is effectively a new context, they're already effectively fullscreen unless there's a current 'task' in progress that might have caused a split or two |
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| 11:53.02 | brlcad | from the *users* perspective, they shouldn't look or act like 'windows' |
| 11:55.34 | brlcad | part of the point of non-overlapping contexts, and one of the big usability impacts is window management, not letting the user waste time with window layout/organization, overlaps, and active states (source of many modality errors) |
| 11:56.24 | brlcad | that's talked about a fair bit throughout the IOE prototype |
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| 12:47.06 | starseeker | hrm. facetizing tire returned message: nmg_radial_build_list() min and max angle not adjacent in list (or list not monotone increasing) |
| 12:47.24 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 12:49.07 | starseeker | here's the full message: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m49a83cdf |
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| 12:57.00 | Mouette | credit can be writen: Albatross Yang |
| 12:57.40 | Mouette | you can rename it as BRL-CAD_7.12.4_solaris_x86.pkg |
| 12:59.31 | Mouette | or other |
| 13:00.23 | Mouette | but have keeped the version number and platform name. |
| 13:09.42 | ``Erik | *snrkt* http://home.clara.net/lesmcdm/images/virgin.jpg (work safe) |
| 13:10.01 | ``Erik | ish, anyways |
| 13:13.04 | brlcad | that's *old* old :) |
| 13:13.16 | brlcad | sees someone is making there way through /. comments |
| 13:13.51 | brlcad | Mouette: can the two numbers that are inside the .pkg be manually edited safely? |
| 13:14.12 | brlcad | the version numbers that are listed as 7.2.14 .. if they can, I'll just make the direct edits |
| 13:16.19 | Mouette | you mean my version display 7.2.14 in my package? |
| 13:16.27 | brlcad | yes |
| 13:16.37 | Mouette | ok,i modify |
| 13:16.45 | brlcad | er, maybe 7.4.12 .. one of the two |
| 13:17.02 | brlcad | either way, it seemed .. not right :) |
| 13:17.38 | brlcad | starseeker: interesting tessellation .. fails on the tread, but gets the inner tube and hub just fine |
| 13:32.11 | Mouette | reuploading |
| 13:44.52 | PrezKennedy | flexspending blows |
| 13:45.11 | *** join/#brlcad piotrnikiel (n=piotrnik@cy243.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) | |
| 13:55.49 | mafm | brlcad: the problem is that I was imagining modeling as something similar to using GIMP |
| 13:56.11 | mafm | with many windows around to perform different operations on geometries |
| 13:56.47 | ``Erik | (bsd has 'fetch' standard, curl and wget are "linux weenie tools") |
| 13:58.06 | ``Erik | <-- *slow* slow, so it all works out |
| 13:58.11 | ``Erik | and I'm caught up! w00t |
| 13:58.52 | Mouette | i have done |
| 14:01.29 | brlcad | Mouette: got it, looking it over |
| 14:01.48 | brlcad | mafm: yes, that is a "problem" :) |
| 14:02.00 | ``Erik | "margarita? I thought that was a slushy!" |
| 14:02.44 | brlcad | mafm: that can be an option later (to allow broken out, overlapping window management), but isn't at all what we need first |
| 14:03.00 | mafm | so I don't know which kind of contexts are necessary to create |
| 14:03.52 | ``Erik | brlcad: do we have fastgen geometry stashed somewhere? there's some email noise about a fast4-g truncation error (ajem scr) |
| 14:04.04 | ``Erik | (or is it fixed?) |
| 14:04.15 | brlcad | two things to focus on, 1 - having one application window that can toggle between window and fullscreen and 2 - context/'window' management inside the application for the basic UI elements (taskbar, command overlay, graphics context, etc) |
| 14:04.26 | brlcad | brlcad: see TODO |
| 14:04.31 | brlcad | er ``Erik heh |
| 14:04.40 | ``Erik | ah, heh |
| 14:04.50 | ``Erik | doesn't answer my question, though, just the context statement |
| 14:05.07 | ``Erik | well, answers my second question, but... :D |
| 14:05.50 | brlcad | i have some somewhere, cad might on an unmounted disk |
| 14:06.16 | ``Erik | heh, and no g-fast4.c :D |
| 14:06.21 | brlcad | hence the todo, finding something to test was part of checking it out |
| 14:06.31 | brlcad | yep, somewhat intentionally .. |
| 14:06.54 | brlcad | there's not much point going from our format to theirs (from our perspective) |
| 14:08.11 | mafm | brlcad: the application window is OGRE I guess, that it already works in that way (can be resized, and the gui windows that I create adapt to that) |
| 14:08.40 | brlcad | i know it's ogre .. but can it go fullscreen? :) |
| 14:08.42 | mafm | brlcad: then the command overlay it's already there, but without autocompletion or things like that |
| 14:08.55 | brlcad | big window != fullscreen |
| 14:09.13 | mafm | then the graphicx context would be the top panel I guess |
| 14:09.17 | prasad1 | brlcad going fullscreen eh |
| 14:09.23 | mafm | sure, it's a toggle :) |
| 14:09.28 | brlcad | damn straight |
| 14:09.47 | mafm | you can even start in fullscreen |
| 14:09.59 | mafm | I just have to create a shortcut or something |
| 14:10.24 | prasad1 | got a screenshot of current progress? |
| 14:10.27 | brlcad | it'll probably eventually be a default |
| 14:12.33 | mafm | the first time that you start, as usual OGRE apps, ask you for display configuration, and you can set it |
| 14:12.50 | mafm | prasad1: http://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080623-1.png |
| 14:14.51 | brlcad | mafm: you say you have the translucent command overlay working? |
| 14:15.48 | mafm | not exactly... my initial idea of the console was a bit different, similar to IRC |
| 14:15.54 | brlcad | when I mean IOE is a prototype, it's not just in basic functionality but in appearance too :) |
| 14:16.01 | brlcad | we *also* need a console like you have |
| 14:16.10 | mafm | hmmm |
| 14:16.44 | mafm | so command overlay is the IOE-like one, and console IRC-like one, right? |
| 14:16.52 | brlcad | right |
| 14:16.58 | mafm | neat |
| 14:17.27 | brlcad | so the console would be something that you could toggle on/off that would fit to a given side (e.g. to the bottom) |
| 14:17.32 | mafm | the console one is also a full context? |
| 14:17.50 | mafm | ah, good |
| 14:18.12 | mafm | it's already working like that, only that I centered it thinking of the overlay |
| 14:18.34 | brlcad | it's a panel similar to when in the IOE he does a search and it creates a results panel on the right |
| 14:19.09 | mafm | so I think that I have enough work for a while, maybe then you or somebody else can test it and give more ideas |
| 14:20.39 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31587 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiTaskbar.cxx GuiTaskbar.h): Making buttons of the taskbar to react when clicked |
| 14:30.41 | mafm | brlcad: about shortcuts to enable different windows, fullscreen etc... are there guidelines, should I try to mimic something or should I invent them? |
| 14:38.09 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31588 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Added the l, listeval and paths commands to libtclcad. Split out the code for the l and paths commands (from wdb_obj.c) into separate files in libged and modified to use struct ged. |
| 14:42.40 | brlcad | mafm: hook display of windows into the command window, some way to query what is available and enable/disable them |
| 14:43.07 | brlcad | otherwise, mimic'ing IOE as close as possible in appearance and function should be more than enough work to keep you busy for a couple weeks |
| 14:43.44 | brlcad | the only context missing is a graphics context, which is another packable widget type |
| 14:43.54 | brlcad | i.e. something to display some 3D geometry in |
| 14:44.01 | prasad1 | do these panels dock? |
| 14:44.27 | brlcad | prasad1: eventually, they should be auto-docked by default |
| 14:44.31 | prasad1 | i found the daz studio (free) interface pretty easy to use |
| 14:44.35 | prasad1 | it's based on qt |
| 14:44.36 | brlcad | prasad1: do you remember IOE? |
| 14:44.51 | prasad1 | what does ioe mean |
| 14:44.55 | brlcad | or had he not finished that by the time you left |
| 14:45.07 | brlcad | it was an interaction prototype that jason worked on |
| 14:45.25 | prasad1 | oh, prolly didnt start b4 i left |
| 14:45.33 | brlcad | oh, he'd started |
| 14:45.45 | brlcad | he'd started thinking about IOE before we left college :) |
| 14:45.54 | prasad1 | oh heh |
| 14:46.02 | brlcad | he just finally got to finishing a prototype for a class |
| 14:46.28 | prasad1 | know which class? |
| 14:46.28 | brlcad | it's pretty slick, lots of nice concepts |
| 14:46.46 | brlcad | it was a usability analysis class iirc |
| 14:47.01 | prasad1 | wait is this the thing he did for m3? |
| 14:47.07 | brlcad | nope |
| 14:47.08 | prasad1 | that got scratched |
| 14:47.17 | prasad1 | *shrug* |
| 14:47.40 | brlcad | it touches on some of the same concepts that m3 has/had, but really ends up being different |
| 14:50.38 | brlcad | there's a video if you wanna watch |
| 14:50.54 | prasad1 | utube? |
| 14:51.00 | brlcad | uporn |
| 14:51.08 | prasad1 | kinky |
| 14:51.23 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov |
| 14:51.50 | brlcad | forget the task center and exact example he's going over, it's the ways you interact and core concepts that are the meat |
| 14:52.01 | brlcad | takes about 10-15 min |
| 14:54.06 | prasad1 | interesting |
| 14:54.10 | prasad1 | something like quicksilver |
| 14:54.12 | brlcad | mafm: so for starters, go for full-window tabs that you can toggle with the console being one and a graphics context being another .. with top task bar and bottom tabs |
| 14:54.18 | brlcad | very much so |
| 14:55.59 | brlcad | it's a cross between quicksilver and something like http://www.suckless.org/wiki/wmii and aqua usability concepts |
| 14:58.50 | mafm | what do you mean bottom tabs -- the bottom tabs of MDI windows? |
| 15:03.27 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:04.52 | prasad1 | ioe is too much change for one political season |
| 15:04.53 | prasad1 | ;) |
| 15:05.46 | brlcad | mafm: no... the bottom tabs in ioe |
| 15:05.50 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31589 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Creating Command Overlay and changing a bit the settings for the other windows |
| 15:06.04 | mafm | mmm... the bottom tabs is what I call the taskbar |
| 15:06.08 | brlcad | mdi tabs suck |
| 15:06.21 | mafm | maybe you call the taskbar the upper panel? :D |
| 15:07.16 | brlcad | there's the bar on top and tabbed selector on the bottom .. call them what you want |
| 15:07.36 | brlcad | the one on the bottom should act like tabs, not buttons and not minimized windows |
| 15:08.00 | brlcad | more like tabs in a browser |
| 15:08.40 | brlcad | visually, that'st he one bit I didn't like -- it should be seamless to the context it activates (instead of appearing like a button) |
| 15:09.10 | mafm | so, not restoring the appearance as a button, but having one highlighted at a given time |
| 15:09.24 | brlcad | right |
| 15:09.37 | brlcad | or rather, dehilighting the others, and having one just be "normal" |
| 15:10.15 | mafm | I see |
| 15:10.36 | mafm | I guess that I have to do it that way (or create the Tab myself, because they don't seem to have that in the library) |
| 15:12.10 | brlcad | something sort of like this for the bottom: http://brlcad.org/tmp/tabs.png |
| 15:12.26 | brlcad | where it blends up but demphasizes the others |
| 15:14.18 | mafm | I see |
| 15:14.59 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31590 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series/VolumeII.xml: Fix docbook for authors so that it outputs cleanly |
| 15:17.18 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31591 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (list.c pathsum.c): include missing header, cast to fix type warning (const issue) |
| 15:19.25 | mafm | I guess that I should create some kind of "window manager" class to register the windows, the specialized unique windows (taskbar, etc) |
| 15:19.56 | mafm | and to take high-level layout decisions, such as tiling windows |
| 15:24.57 | brlcad | absolutely, that was part of the reason why I pointed you at wmii .. to see if maybe there was even some layout code that could be pulled from it |
| 15:25.46 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31592 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/pkgconfig/Makefile.am: libwdb typo |
| 15:26.10 | brlcad | they have two basic layout options, one being tabbed, the other being 'stacked'/shaded |
| 15:28.01 | mafm | I wonder if I can use wmii with KDE :D |
| 15:37.41 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31593 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (18 files in 2 dirs): Point all the lessons and the book itself to a single authors file in the tutorial series directory, since they're all pulled from the book |
| 15:40.28 | mafm | huh |
| 15:40.40 | mafm | not with KDE, but it's working now :D |
| 15:41.55 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31594 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/pathsum.c: Changed TCL_ERROR to GED_ERROR in a few places. |
| 16:17.51 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31595 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Changed a handfull of function name prefixes from bu_ bu_tcl_. |
| 16:29.27 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31596 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Stage 1/4 towards a simple binary constraint solver: Addition of simple Network and Solution class |
| 16:38.10 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E41A.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:42.48 | pacman87 | hmmm, so i have an arbitrary number of hitpoints to store and sort in shot(), but using a linked list requires memory allocation during shot. extrude just assumes there will be no more that 64 hitpoints |
| 17:06.35 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31597 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (11 files): |
| 17:06.35 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Introducing Window Manager class, which will perform high-level operations. One |
| 17:06.35 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: example of the future functionality is that it took over the window resized |
| 17:06.35 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: events: instead of registering all individual windows for render window resized |
| 17:06.35 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: events, only the window manager gets notified and then it delivers the event to |
| 17:06.39 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: some of the windows. |
| 17:30.55 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31598 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): |
| 17:30.55 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Removing Taskbar as separate window, and reintroduce it instead as a 'frame' |
| 17:30.55 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: window, part of the WindowManager class. This makes sense since WindowManager |
| 17:30.55 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: is already going to have the list of available windows, it should subtract the |
| 17:30.56 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: size of the taskbar when passing the available screen size to the rest of the |
| 17:30.58 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: windows, etc. |
| 17:34.07 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31599 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): beginning of revolve primitive, with shot() algorithm for straigh line sketches (untested) |
| 17:48.15 | mafm | uh |
| 17:48.24 | mafm | fullscreen works, but not very smoothly for me :D |
| 17:50.02 | mafm | well, when adding more resolution it works much better really |
| 17:53.45 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31600 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Adding fullscreen support |
| 17:59.57 | starseeker | Here's the html conversion as it currently stands: http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/vol2/book/tutorial_series/ |
| 18:00.12 | starseeker | that stupid unicode character is at is again... |
| 18:00.28 | starseeker | why doesn't that happen on the local copy???? |
| 18:32.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31601 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (10 files): |
| 18:32.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Adding a bar in the top of the screen, that will be used for context actions, |
| 18:32.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: set fullscreen and similar tasks. Application class was made a Singleton so it |
| 18:32.53 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: can be accessed from elsewhere, in example to toggle fullscreen mode from the |
| 18:32.54 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: recently created top bar. |
| 18:48.32 | starseeker | Ah hah, getting closer - http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/vol2/book/tutorial_series/ |
| 18:50.31 | mafm | ~starseeker++ |
| 19:21.36 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31602 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/README: Add toplevel docbook readme with a few notes |
| 19:26.15 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 19:56.41 | mafm | have to go now, take care guys |
| 19:56.45 | pacman87 | bye mafm |
| 19:57.27 | mafm | http://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080624-1.png |
| 19:57.28 | mafm | :) |
| 20:45.23 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31603 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added the attr command to libtclcad. Split out the code for the attr command (from wdb_obj.c) into a separate file in libged and modified it to use struct ged. |
| 20:50.52 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com) | |
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| 22:13.50 | brlcad | pacman87: you could preallocate a pool of memory during prep, put that into the specific structure, then only allocate if you run out |
| 22:14.13 | pacman87 | best of both worlds strategy? |
| 22:14.19 | brlcad | can use bu_vls or bu_vlb as automatic pools |
| 22:14.28 | brlcad | (probably vlb) |
| 22:14.47 | brlcad | yeah, it's a decent practical balance |
| 22:18.35 | brlcad | starseeker: I had them reversed, the server declaration does indeed override the meta declaration so the .htaccess and/or a section in httpd.conf that declares specific subtrees as utf-8 would be needed |
| 22:20.43 | brlcad | default setting for all sites is ISO-8859-1, so that makes more sense now |
| 22:21.25 | brlcad | could possibly change the whole server to utf-8, but would need a weekend to verify it doesn't break any sites |
| 23:11.43 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_ (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 23:34.29 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31604 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: implement make, ted, edsol, mirror, and analyze for hyp primitive |
| 23:35.02 | brlcad | pacman87: does that magic number mean anything or did you pick random chars? |
| 23:35.17 | pacman87 | i think it's 'hype' |
| 23:35.27 | pacman87 | might be caps |
| 23:35.38 | brlcad | should document it in the header :) |
| 23:35.45 | brlcad | same for revolve |
| 23:39.08 | pacman87 | in magic.h? |
| 23:40.26 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:40.39 | pacman87 | ok |
| 23:58.20 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31605 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcNetwork.h solver_test.cpp): start class name in caps |
