IRC log for #brlcad on 20080625

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00:36.45 *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
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01:26.14 yukonbob hello, cadheads
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03:03.37 geocalc ./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `TclReFree'
03:04.58 pacman87 geocalc: did you do ./configure --enable-all?
03:05.14 geocalc no
03:08.35 geocalc same error pacman87
03:09.27 pacman87 what version is your system tcl/tk?
03:10.07 pacman87 are you using svn current?
03:11.06 geocalc 8.5.2 pacman87 no svn
03:11.37 pacman87 what OS?
03:12.09 geocalc paldo linux 64 bits
03:13.44 pacman87 geocalc: i guess you'll have to stick around until someone who knows what they're doing shows up
03:13.58 pacman87 ./configure --enable-all fixed for me
03:14.35 geocalc hah ok thanks pacman87
03:28.44 brlcad geocalc: you have to make clean after the enable-all
03:28.54 brlcad else there are still object files with the bad reference
03:29.31 brlcad the other quick fix to that problem is to edit src/librt/regionfix.c and add "#undef regfree" after the #include's
03:29.42 geocalc i see thanks
03:33.17 brlcad tcl screws up a header
04:09.18 brlcad pacman87: fyi, traced down at least one of the existing spline curve structures: struct edge_g_cnurb in nmg.h
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04:14.36 brlcad that would be a viable C approach, for C++ openNURBS provides a variety like ON_BezierCurve and ON_NurbsCurve
04:14.50 pacman87 did i miss something?
04:15.01 brlcad mebbie
04:15.09 brlcad 00:09 <@brlcad> pacman87: fyi, traced down at least one of the existing spline curve structures: struct edge_g_cnurb in nmg.h
04:19.44 brlcad anim and tracker were useless curves
04:22.37 brlcad so that basically leaves you those c or c++ structures, either would be good for sweep .. probably making the curve be part of sweep (instead of sweep referring to one object for the sketch and another nmg or brep object for the curve
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04:23.37 pacman87 ok, that was a question i had for sweep
04:23.43 pacman87 whether the path would be seperate
04:27.49 brlcad I think it can be down either way, but I see that more as being the values of the sweep
04:28.17 brlcad it's not like we're going to sweep over anything else (although that does give rise to some interesting ideas)
04:29.00 pacman87 well, if it's seperate, you could edit the path, or have 'parallel' sweeps using the same path and different start points
04:29.14 pacman87 *edit the path seperately
04:30.04 brlcad you could still conceivably edit it separately, I'm just not sure what that buys you
04:30.22 brlcad given we *don't* presently allow editing of any non-solid geometry in 3D
04:30.48 brlcad closest is the sketch, but that kicks off a separate 2D editor
04:31.01 pacman87 what i meant was if you change the path, the both of your 'parallel
04:31.08 pacman87 ' sweeps would change
04:31.15 brlcad nods
04:32.41 brlcad you can do it that way, I wouldn't object, but I'm just not convinced that flexibility is worth the complexity myself
04:33.44 brlcad as you'd have to decide whether you're going to use bspline or brep objects (probably the latter if you go the object-route), and validate that it's just one curve (or maybe set of curves)
04:33.57 brlcad if it's internal, it is what it is
04:34.10 brlcad no chance for it to be invalid
04:34.26 pacman87 checked on creation instead of import?
04:34.41 brlcad que?
04:35.23 pacman87 you're saying i could use the structure internally
04:35.59 pacman87 if i have to limit the path to degree 2, then the internal structure could concievably be bad
04:36.13 geocalc This probably means that tk wasn't installed properly. brlcad ?
04:36.15 brlcad the options are a) sweep uses sketch and bspline, b) sweep uses sketch and brep, c) sweep uses sketch and internal spline
04:37.02 brlcad geocalc: no it doesn't mean that .. it's just a bug in one of their headers, a really obscure one that only affects folks that seach them as a header search path
04:37.29 brlcad the "problem" is that a) and b) can have a hell of a lot more in them than splines .. they're general brep containers
04:37.48 brlcad not that the spline itself may be invalid if you have some constraints that have to be imposed
04:38.03 brlcad the spline itself could be conceivably bad with a, b, or c
04:38.09 brlcad that much is constant
04:39.12 brlcad c) just gets rid of the generalized container, so you don't have to "validate" the bspline/brep
04:39.48 brlcad it's not a huge deal, I think any of the three are perfectly viable
04:40.52 brlcad my own inclination would probably be b) or c) leaning slightly to c) but using the nmg struct in a) internally during prep
05:01.59 geocalc so brlcad to use mged i must recompile ?
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10:41.22 mafm hi
10:43.24 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31606 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Making the top panel visible, although not very elegantly. Cleanup of unused functions.
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12:02.28 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: every file has to be mentioned here: added revolve.h
12:04.11 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31608 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: beginning of revolve primitive: added revolve.c
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12:06.06 brlcad geocalc: yep
12:32.16 mafm meh
12:32.23 mafm silly ogre :P
12:32.44 mafm g3d: ../../OgreMain/include/OgreSingleton.h:66: Ogre::Singleton<T>::Singleton() [with T = Ogre::Root]: Assertion `!ms_Singleton' failed.
12:40.50 starseeker brlcad: Ah, now I remember why I was so baffled by the gdb backtrace on iges-g: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m6e1dc5ed
12:46.48 brlcad starseeker: that's an optimized build, you need/want a debug build (probably not a /usr/brlcad install unless you install there yourself)
12:47.47 brlcad mafm: looks like someone deleted a singleton
12:49.08 ``Erik flatulates with vigor
12:52.42 mafm apparently you can get that kind of errors also because of linking issues
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13:03.10 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31609 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/bu_tcl.c src/libbu/parse.c): bu_tcl_structparse_argv has been modified to use the new bu_structparse_argv (No Tcl here. It write log messages to a vls.)
13:04.51 starseeker odd, I didn't enable optimization
13:06.04 starseeker explicitly enables debug
13:11.37 brlcad starseeker: hm, then that may just be stack stompage
13:11.47 brlcad put a break on something like bu_log
13:11.51 brlcad then to a bt
13:11.54 brlcad see if you see symbols
13:12.12 starseeker is rebuilding with explicit debug support too
13:12.20 brlcad do you install into /usr/brlcad ?
13:12.24 starseeker yes
13:12.54 brlcad radmind wipes that out every night if you're not exempted (and the one it puts in place is optimized)
13:13.10 starseeker I'm on my home box right now
13:13.15 brlcad ah, k :)
13:13.27 starseeker If radmind is wiping THIS box, I'm scared ;-)
13:13.28 brlcad then .. *maybe* that's not the problem *smirk*
13:13.41 brlcad try the bt
13:14.14 brlcad if you see a valid backtrace, then you're good and you can just try to pinpoint the crash-point
13:14.47 brlcad e.g. put a break on the file:line that is printing "Converting NURB entities" and step from there
13:15.22 starseeker does some quick checking and gdb 101 review...
13:18.01 brlcad break {functionname|file:line}
13:18.04 brlcad run
13:18.13 brlcad bt
13:18.38 starseeker erm. It's saying no source file named convsurv.c - does it need the full path?
13:19.20 brlcad surv?
13:19.32 starseeker That's the iges conversion source file with the NURB message
13:19.44 starseeker when I try to set the break
13:19.51 starseeker feels like such a noob...
13:20.02 brlcad surV?
13:20.28 starseeker ah
13:20.29 starseeker sorry
13:20.35 starseeker smacks self
13:20.56 brlcad all your surv are belong to surfers
13:20.59 ``Erik poo, src/libpc/ fails to compile
13:21.26 brlcad yeah, I was going to smack dawn
13:21.49 brlcad it needs CPPFLAG love in configure.ac
13:22.11 brlcad to add src/other if it needs non-system boost
13:23.00 ``Erik heh, removing libpc from the build dirs in Makefile works fine for my needs
13:24.37 ``Erik hehehe "s/global warming/heated orb terror syndrom/g"
13:25.19 starseeker ah hah - it's failing on mk_bspline
13:26.39 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31610 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: unbreak the build, it needs src/other as an include path .. temp hack that someone(tm) needs to fix.
13:27.27 starseeker is now into libwdb's nurb.c
13:32.43 starseeker fails at line 64 - returning the export
13:50.33 starseeker ok, down to line 318 in wdb_put_internal...
13:55.28 mafm hmm
13:55.39 mafm I have an strange problem here, maybe somebody can help
13:56.11 mafm I instantiate Ogre::Root (the mother of all the lambs), and this class has a singleton
13:57.03 mafm when I try to get a pointer to the renderwindow, it works if I call the singleton, but not if I do it indirectly through the pointer of the created root
13:57.12 mafm does this make any sense for you?
13:57.41 mafm I don't know why they make a singleton when you can create the object separately, for a start...
14:01.18 starseeker down to rt_nurb_free_snurb...
14:09.28 brlcad mafm: it seems weird (wrong?) that you'd ever want or need to direction instantiate a base class
14:09.34 brlcad s/direction/directly/
14:10.14 brlcad they could/should prevent that if it wasn't desirable, but there may have been some reason to allow it .. still seems pretty odd
14:10.39 mafm well, OGRE allows it (i.e. the constructor is not protedted or private), and it seems to be required as the only way to pass configuration parameters
14:11.11 mafm http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/classOgre_1_1Root.html#Ogre_1_1Roota0
14:12.32 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31611 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/tracker.sh: dunno why the minuses were being escaped
14:12.52 mafm I need that because we ship a configuration file with the plugins we need
14:13.14 mafm so it's a system-wide file installed in /usr/local
14:13.25 starseeker brlcad: OK, here's as far as I've been able to drill: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m81591bf
14:14.08 brlcad mafm: *nod*, doesn't make it any less odd ;)
14:14.57 mafm but you mean that it's odd what I'm doing or what they're doing?
14:15.08 brlcad yes :)
14:15.22 mafm that's not a yes-no question :P
14:15.41 starseeker tables the problem temporarily to head in...
14:15.50 brlcad i don't doubt that you need to, them making you need to is odd, them making an api that requires instantiating a base class is .. weird
14:16.12 mafm I think that they make it too complex with their template and inheritance trickery is causing the problem
14:16.34 mafm and I don't know what's the way out of the pit
14:17.06 starseeker so I have it, here's the path from main down to the wipeout: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m5429c1a8
14:17.11 brlcad starseeker: mm, rt_nurb_free_snurb() being called with a null resource structure could be a problem
14:17.14 mafm unless I start accessing directly Ogre::Root:getSingleton() in all the GUI windows/classes
14:17.39 starseeker will try it on the mac and see if things look difference once I'm in
14:18.38 brlcad starseeker: ever used valgrind?
14:18.48 starseeker no, unfortunately :-(
14:18.55 brlcad that might pinpoint the problem, it's great at finding memory issues
14:19.06 starseeker checks to see if he has valgrind
14:19.24 brlcad and this seems to be one, the fact that it crashes after free() just probably means it was asked to free something that it shouldn't have
14:19.38 brlcad or that something went wrong earlier
14:20.05 brlcad valgrind is predominantly best on x86 linux, so should be easy to get
14:20.09 brlcad it's really easy to use
14:20.14 starseeker cool :-)
14:20.24 brlcad mafm: any hint from the ogre devs?
14:20.27 starseeker is installing ebuild now
14:20.36 brlcad it's been a long while since I played with the samples
14:20.41 mafm nobody replies me in the IRC
14:20.54 brlcad their devs mostly work off their forums
14:21.04 mafm I guess that I could write them, but it'll take days
14:21.07 brlcad steve doesn't like irc :)
14:21.21 brlcad they're actually pretty responsive every time I've interacted
14:21.36 mafm and they point to the linking issues in the FAQs, so I guess that they'll stick to that explanation
14:21.36 brlcad forums are a lot different when all your core guys predominantly use it
14:21.50 mafm http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/CommonMistakes#Exceptions_and_Asserts
14:22.53 starseeker considers using this experience to write up an example based "debugging for dummies"
14:23.45 brlcad mafm: that faq entry leads me to believe that there's a plugin instantiating the root as well
14:23.47 starseeker has valgrind now
14:24.05 mafm http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/OgreSingleton_8h-source.html
14:24.21 mafm starseeker: just "valgrind binary-of-the-program"
14:25.03 mafm scared of the pointer trickey :)
14:25.45 mafm and the compiler pragmas as well
14:26.37 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31612 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/news2tracker.sh: maybe a \t got stripped at some point, just leaving the slash. either way, clean up.
14:27.31 brlcad mafm: that's a pretty basic singleton
14:27.53 brlcad it's quite flawed for many purposes, but decent enough
14:29.13 brlcad much better: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/include/Singleton.h?revision=16429&view=markup
14:30.11 brlcad automatic cleanup, prevents accidental instantiation, simple initialization .. and with just a couple extra params you can extend it to multithreading or other allocation mechanisms
14:31.46 brlcad i wrote that several years ago, one of the most reused pieces of code I've ever written
14:34.23 starseeker hmm - valgrind internal error
14:34.36 mafm no good :)
14:35.41 mafm <PROTECTED>
14:35.41 mafm <PROTECTED>
14:36.08 mafm things strange with singletons, they do :)
14:36.48 brlcad yeah, looks like they're of the explicit creation/destruction camp
14:37.11 brlcad silly for many reasons
14:37.19 brlcad c'est la vie
14:47.44 starseeker Here's what valgrind did with it: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m78e64646
14:48.01 starseeker REALLY needs to get going...
14:51.40 mafm starseeker: you might try to see what the last lines before the warnings are doing
14:51.46 mafm in example: spline (spline.c:120)
14:52.02 mafm at that position of that file, something seems to be going wrong
14:52.26 mafm writing to a non-allocated place of memory, or something like that
14:54.48 brlcad yeah, there's lots of goodies/nasties in that report
15:04.20 starseeker 's first guess based on this would be checking the various data structures and the memory allocation for said structures?
15:08.14 mafm starseeker: http://rafb.net/p/B8SFmg93.html
15:08.50 mafm in the first case of printf trying to read an dangling pointer, you get this:
15:08.56 mafm Use of uninitialised value of size 8
15:09.22 mafm then I try to assign it a value, writing to that position:
15:09.24 mafm Invalid write of size 4
15:10.04 mafm so in the lines of spline.c, you should try to see which variable you're accessing, and if was properly created (and not deleted in the meantime)
15:10.08 starseeker Right - so in the case of valgrind it diesn't like (*b_patch)->v.knots[i] -= min_knot;
15:10.19 mafm sometimes you get chained problems, when some memory overwrites other
15:11.16 mafm for a simple debugging procedure, you might try to access different parts of that line, to see where's the problem
15:11.19 starseeker looks for the structural definition of face_g_snurb
15:11.50 mafm maybe it's that i runs too far away in the vector (trying to access beyond the created elements)
15:16.25 starseeker is thinking this looks like pointer fun...
15:21.46 starseeker OK, knot vector is using fastf_t for its array type and min_knot is a fastf_t, so that's OK...
15:25.23 starseeker OK, this is interesting - the FIRST call to rt_nurb_free_snurb succeeds
15:25.32 starseeker it's only the second that fails
15:25.38 starseeker I wonder what the difference is...
15:26.36 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31613 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h GuiWindowManager.cxx): Miscellaneous reorganization of code and cleanup.
15:29.24 mafm well, it's not always straightforward
15:29.43 mafm sometimes you even get completely mad errors due to stack overruns and things like that
15:37.26 clock_ or shooting into the memory
15:37.46 starseeker scowls at the C programming language...
15:37.50 clock_ running out of an array overwrites some global variables and a complex behaviour can result.
15:38.10 clock_ starseeker: I suggest to scowl at wrongly programmed programs
15:38.28 clock_ make sure your algorithm is correct and your program is written correctly and typed in correctly
15:38.33 clock_ and then you won't encounter any bugs
15:38.47 starseeker That too, but mucking at such a low level except when no alternative exists is just annoying
15:39.00 clock_ once a colleague decreased some constant which was hard assumed to be 2 in the kernel
15:39.02 starseeker didn't write this one anyway
15:39.10 clock_ and a behavour resulted that emulated a faulty pipeline in the CPU
15:39.24 clock_ since the CPU has already one instruction faulty I was investigating that
15:39.34 starseeker nice
15:39.36 clock_ and after a month or two of false track I managed to find the source of the problem
15:40.02 clock_ starseeker: you can check if it's correct. The universe will collapse 3 times in between, but it's possible :)
15:40.26 starseeker decides to eat lunch first...
15:40.30 starseeker back later
15:41.11 clock_ the morale of this story: do not write bad programs
15:41.17 clock_ always make only correct ones
16:43.44 pacman87 rt_gettree_leaf(rev): prep failure
16:43.44 pacman87 db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/rev'
16:55.31 ``Erik heh, that sounds about as useful as my statemeny, clock... "don't put the bugs in the code in the first place, then you won't have to debug" ... :D
16:55.50 ``Erik and don't scowl at C, it's a fantastic language for what it was designed for... writing kernels and drivers.
16:57.03 poolio wanders off to implement BREP support in Matlab
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17:12.14 poolio Gee, that was fun ;)
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17:26.34 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31614 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Connecting CommandOverlay with history, so both it and the console have the same effect. Also made the History a Singleton to keep this consistency.
18:33.39 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31615 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: ws
18:34.40 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31616 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): more work on revolve
18:34.59 pacman87 probably should've used a better commit message
18:38.05 mafm maybe :D
18:43.02 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31617 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Adding listeners to History events, so in example commands entered in CommandOverlay get logged in the panel of the console.
18:46.14 mafm I go now, take care
18:46.18 pacman87 bye
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20:17.13 starseeker Phooey. The iges-g bug does not appear on the Mac
20:17.41 starseeker Amusingly, however, it does cause an attempted raytrace in mged to die with an abort trap error
21:07.56 ``Erik keeps laughing at http://www.explosm.net/comics/1324/ for some reason
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21:17.33 jgay Hey, anybody want to be attached to a really interesting discussion thread happening about the creation of a "mozilla foundation for government contractors"
21:17.40 jgay brlcad: ^^?
22:50.35 CIA-22 BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31618 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files): Stage 2/4 towards binary constraint solver: Constraint class definition, refinement of certain Variable and Network members and methods
23:05.59 pacman87 how do you set the background color for a raytrace?

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