IRC log for #brlcad on 20080708

00:13.48 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.27.163)
00:13.59 andrecastelo hey guys
00:15.21 brlcad howdy andrecastelo
00:16.39 brlcad andrecastelo: how's your tracer coming along?
00:21.24 andrecastelo Not upt to my expectations. I've written about it at the blog. Some functions are pretty similar to RT, probably need to be tweaked to support MLT better; rayhit is also akin to color_view(). Also, I'm not able to dedicate as I wanted to, due to school and laboratory responsibilities.
00:21.53 brlcad yeah, I read your update, several comments and responses if you're interested
00:22.28 andrecastelo those are really welcome
00:23.07 brlcad hope you don't fall too far behind, there's a fair bit to go and afaikt you don't have it generating (any) images yet.. :)
00:24.03 brlcad well the answer to a lot of your questions was "don't worry about that yet" .. your first step really needs to be a simple flat-shaded bitmap image
00:24.19 brlcad if you hit it, color the pixel on or color it the color of what you hit, etc
00:24.37 brlcad before you get to the more complex summations needed for mlt
00:24.50 brlcad you need that before you can sample hemispheres regardless
00:25.21 brlcad and even getting that far will be a heck of a lot of motivation since you get to finally see something
00:28.09 andrecastelo thanks, I will do my best to keep up
00:28.15 andrecastelo did you comment on the blog itself?
00:28.26 brlcad after you get that far, then we can start thinking about how to deal with reflections/refractions, forward path discovery, reverse path discovery, metropolis sampling, path jitter, depth of field, etc
00:29.05 andrecastelo so, the idea is to build a simple tracer first?
00:29.23 brlcad more specific to the code, even for bitmapping, you'll either color in ray-hit, or store the hit during rayhit and write to the image probably during viewend
00:29.37 brlcad yes, a *very* simple tracer, bitmap on/off even
00:30.11 brlcad no secondary rays
00:30.19 andrecastelo hmm
00:30.27 andrecastelo i really didn't think about that
00:30.45 brlcad if you don't have that much working, the rest is moot :)
00:31.20 brlcad it's certainly not wasted code, you need it regardless ..
00:42.09 andrecastelo thanks for the help, brlcad :D really appreciate it
01:08.35 yukonbob hello, cadheads
01:13.19 brlcad howdy
01:47.50 brlcad fyi, there's a support request in to sf.net to fix CIA
01:47.52 brlcad the problem seems to be on their end
01:47.56 brlcad it was instantly marked high-priority so hopefully it should get resolved soon
02:22.47 yukonbob updates his copy of the svn repo...
02:57.29 *** join/#brlcad Miesco (n=shawn@bas2-toronto12-1167860846.dsl.bell.ca)
02:57.41 Miesco Hi, how do I center an object
02:57.47 Miesco I lost it
03:01.29 Miesco I found it, I just did: center 0 0 0
03:10.52 Miesco Hey how come in the MGED text is so big, like File, Edit, its way bigger then any other apps
03:14.42 andrecastelo brlcad: so, i think my view_pixel is broken :S
03:36.44 *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
03:37.37 *** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-204.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
03:55.53 brlcad Miesco: the 'center' command centers the view
03:56.08 brlcad doesn't change the object you're looking at, just the view
03:56.57 brlcad default text is so big because that was a common size requested by users -- it's configurable, though -- you can make it whatever size suits you
04:15.57 brlcad andrecastelo: might help to step back and relook at something more simple like rtarea -- you should be able to follow what is going on there but instead of tabulating the hits and printing a summary, you fill in a pixel array and write the buffer out to a file
04:17.06 brlcad you should have the same basic callbacks going on in your code, except for a binary array it's even more simple than rtarea -- you only need first hit and only hit/miss
04:59.16 yukonbob lots of autocad chatter on #tcl, so I pointed the nerds to http://www.brlcad.org...
05:03.04 brlcad :)
05:03.25 brlcad tell them the modeler is a huge tcl/tk code base?
05:03.52 brlcad some portions predate 8.0 days.. might scare some ;)
05:10.12 yukonbob of course mentioned the Tcl...
05:10.13 yukonbob ;)
05:10.33 yukonbob Tcl is was brought _me_ to BRL-CAD ;)
05:10.54 brlcad :)
05:11.17 yukonbob now I stay because BRL-CAD is 1) awesome 2) Has a great community (and awesome leader (Sean)) 3) Still has Tcl ;)
05:12.03 yukonbob heh "stay" -- I haven't touched anything for months :P
05:14.05 brlcad 1) yes it is! 2) heh (pffft) 3) and probably always will in some central capacity even if the interface itself becomes less intertwined
05:15.02 brlcad pfft to myself, not the community .. the community is great ;)
05:16.08 yukonbob :) -- well, like the attention or not, I think you do a wicked job here... but enough of that. How're things going?
05:17.45 brlcad going a'ight
05:18.16 brlcad working on some finishing touches for a geometry service visualization plan at the moment
05:19.07 brlcad central to the new modeler architecture among other things
05:19.20 yukonbob gsv -- a central geom server?
05:19.34 yukonbob is only guessing, by the name...
05:19.56 brlcad sort of, only part of it (a small part of what you could conceivably do with it)
05:20.10 yukonbob interrogation ,etc. ,etc?
05:22.13 brlcad sort of turning libbu, libbn, libwdb, librt, and mged into a unified API, allowing versioned object management on top of that as part of a new geometry kernel, and then providing means for storing/retrieving geometry, visual representations, and change notifications
05:23.32 yukonbob ever considered sqlite for version management?
05:23.40 brlcad part of a grand master plan to modernize our services for application codes to use
05:23.44 yukonbob has had this on his head for a while...
05:23.53 brlcad yep, it's on the docket for some things already
05:24.06 yukonbob nods...
05:24.17 brlcad though for actual geometry management, the plan is presently a different (hybrid) approach
05:24.54 brlcad using sql for metadata directory services, using more traditional revision control for geometry itself
05:25.30 brlcad I'll see if I can post up this plan when I'm done, might help see things better (there are pretty pictures)
05:25.37 yukonbob hrmm...
05:26.02 yukonbob when you say more traditional revision control, are you thinking a lightweight svn?
05:26.09 yukonbob (for example)
05:26.39 brlcad well I'm referring at a programmatic level, but yeah sorta
05:27.07 brlcad at a c/c++ coding level, managing revision controlled geometry
05:27.09 yukonbob brlcad: are you familiar w/ another drh project, fossil (http://www.fossil-scm.org)?
05:27.25 brlcad yep, you mentioned them a week or two ago :)
05:27.47 yukonbob Oops -- I one of _those_ people :P
05:27.48 yukonbob <PROTECTED>
05:28.05 yukonbob UNfortunately, it's currently licensed gpl...
05:28.25 yukonbob but his (drh) coding style is very cool... built for integration...
05:29.00 brlcad gpl is a non-starter, but there are other requirements too
05:29.35 yukonbob lgpl is the "worst" for consideration, no?
05:29.51 yukonbob ie: BSD is better... or other such permissive license?
05:30.08 brlcad e.g. something like mercurial would be interesting, but there's no low-level bindings; git has low-level api facilities but is a mess and isn't really cross-platform at all, etc
05:30.22 yukonbob ugh -- git
05:30.23 brlcad lgpl or bsd/mit are fine
05:30.38 yukonbob 8000 binaries to do your job
05:31.03 brlcad again, that's the high-level .. which we're not involved with :)
05:31.56 yukonbob ya, true... but still. /me quit working with git when he discovered mercurial, then quit w/ mercurial when discovered fossil...
05:32.19 brlcad looking at the reliability/portability/momentum landscape, the svn C libraries are actually pretty darn solid (just presently sans distributed capabilities, which we don't exactly want/need at this point)
05:33.15 brlcad and since we're at a compile-time layer, we could add those capabilities ourselves if that requirement happens (though not likely)
05:34.13 brlcad that's all just gravy-talk, the main effort is much more direct -- unify our services (which requires a *massive* rewrite at three separate levels)
05:34.54 brlcad hence all the work lately on libged, upcoming C++ OO layer, and a network service layer
05:35.12 brlcad that's more than enough to keep us busy for a year or three
05:36.01 yukonbob kewl, kewl, kewl
05:40.53 yukonbob hits hay -- tomorrow's another day (or so I'm told) -- chat later, brlcad
05:41.13 brlcad cya!
05:41.24 brlcad suspects this might be an all-nighter
07:17.07 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:37.09 brlcad suspected correctly
09:14.24 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
09:21.28 *** join/#brlcad CIA-60 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
09:43.27 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:02.08 mafm hi
10:47.30 brlcad howdy!
10:47.52 brlcad gets dressed
10:49.19 mafm won't look at brlcad
12:02.23 brlcad heh
12:03.10 alex_joni mafm: smart move
12:09.23 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:26.43 mafm I'm all for not looking at naked guys
12:33.59 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
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13:33.13 brlcad mafm: more eye candy if you're not seen this already: http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburnpage/ (or the former http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburn/ )
13:34.10 brlcad would be very cool to be able to use either vim files or one of the other "ports and derivatives" directly as a theming format for the gui's text
13:42.33 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.249.146)
13:52.02 *** join/#brlcad HTT-Bird (n=Birdyz0r@unaffiliated/htt-bird)
13:53.19 HTT-Bird hey all, just installed BRL-CAD from the Windows binary yesterday to leverage its file-format conversion capabilities, but I only got the IGES and STL importers/exporters + the fast4 importer
13:53.32 HTT-Bird what do I have to do to get the other importers and exporters?
13:53.46 brlcad HTT-Bird: the Windows port isn't as comprehensive as (all) other platforms
13:54.04 HTT-Bird :( will I have to build the rest of the exporters from source?
13:54.41 brlcad you have to either compile them directly yourself (setting up a studio project for some of them), try compiling under cygwin, use a non-Windows OS, or .. "wait"
13:55.01 HTT-Bird okiedokie, thank goodness I know how to compile stuff :D
13:55.09 brlcad which compile were you looking to use?
13:55.15 brlcad s/compile/converter/
13:55.39 HTT-Bird the VRML exporter
13:58.01 HTT-Bird oh lol, turns out that the version linked to off the mainpage is OLD!
13:58.01 HTT-Bird (7.8.0 as opposed to 7.12.x)
14:01.18 HTT-Bird also, can the IGES importer read STEP too? the documentation alludes to STEP being an IGES refinement...
14:07.49 HTT-Bird alright, upgrading to 7.12.2 got me my importers and exporters
14:08.50 brlcad ah, heh
14:09.00 brlcad no IGES cannot read STEP
14:09.05 brlcad entirely different standards
14:09.55 HTT-Bird ah...
14:10.22 HTT-Bird crosses his fingers and hopes that the IGES importer works then
14:11.22 HTT-Bird gah, I guess not
14:12.14 brlcad STEP replaces IGES from an industry standardization perspective, but isn't a refinement
14:12.25 HTT-Bird ok...ty for clearing that up
14:12.39 brlcad the iges importer is rather .. "complex" .. there are various import modes possible
14:12.53 brlcad you have to pick the right modes and even then it will only pay attention to solid geometry
14:13.14 HTT-Bird well, I'm trying to import an assembly of 3 solid parts so I can send it right back out the door as VRML
14:13.36 brlcad and you only have it in iges format?
14:14.21 brlcad converting from iges to brl-cad's nmg or bot formats is your best bet for getting to vrml
14:14.57 HTT-Bird I have the original source of the model (as AIP2k8)
14:14.57 brlcad just if you have spline nurbs surface solids in your iges file, that's the one case that might give you problems
14:14.57 HTT-Bird ah...
14:14.57 HTT-Bird tries a re-export
14:15.04 brlcad "might", depends on a lot of factors
14:15.13 brlcad iges export has tons of options usually
14:15.33 brlcad there are like three that should work perfectly, and about one or two dozen that will fail
14:16.24 HTT-Bird tried exporting Analytic instead of NURBS surfaces, and no dice :(
14:17.53 HTT-Bird ok, Surface export seems to work using the importer's -n flag
14:18.21 *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.249.146)
14:22.08 HTT-Bird well...almost there :( I can't seem to get Mged to draw the object in the file
14:28.55 mafm brlcad: what do you mean, having a code translating theme.vim to RBGui.theme?
14:30.21 mafm also, the text has format highlighting, which the RBGui's text widgets have no support for
14:31.51 brlcad it's the format highlighting that make it useful ;)
14:32.17 brlcad HTT-Bird: what does "tops" say in mged? 'e' that name
14:32.28 HTT-Bird brlcad: already tried that :(
14:32.34 brlcad what'd it say?
14:32.43 HTT-Bird 'all'
14:32.58 HTT-Bird but nothing happens in the console and no objects show up when I do 'e all'
14:33.09 brlcad "l all"
14:33.41 HTT-Bird yeah, there's an object there, alright
14:35.10 brlcad perhaps the graphics display simply isn't updating? try moving the graphics window after e all
14:35.58 mafm do you want me to implement syntax highlighting for text widgets?
14:36.11 HTT-Bird brlcad: no, still just a black graphics window with the axes in it
14:38.15 brlcad mafm: nah, layout and interaction is more important than styling for now
14:38.37 brlcad HTT-Bird: if you run "rt", do you just get a black window?
14:39.07 HTT-Bird rt doesn't even get that far!
14:39.17 HTT-Bird rt_dirbuild(all) failure!
14:39.29 HTT-Bird ok, that was my bad
14:39.45 mafm I don't know if more windows than the console would be heavily based in text
14:40.00 HTT-Bird well, rt gives me an object, just the wrong object
14:40.14 brlcad HTT-Bird: what color is it? black?
14:40.36 HTT-Bird brlcad: the object's there and nice and gray, it just is badly distorted from the original
14:43.01 poolio waves
14:45.04 HTT-Bird lol, I just triggered a rather spectacular crash in iges-g
14:47.31 clock_ `iseg-f
14:48.33 brlcad HTT-Bird: badly distorted as in polygonal soup, too low tessellation?
14:48.40 brlcad that should be export settings controllable
14:48.40 HTT-Bird brlcad: the tesselation is fine
14:48.52 brlcad pic?
14:49.06 HTT-Bird it's just that the object itself is distorted (a hemispherical shell became a sphere, for instance)
14:50.51 HTT-Bird well, I guess I'll go to a totally different solution
14:51.33 HTT-Bird oh wait...some signs of life from the graphics window!
14:52.29 HTT-Bird yeah, it's IGES object soup that's my problem
14:52.41 HTT-Bird so...now I know why IGES is bad.
14:53.05 HTT-Bird thx for the help brlcad
14:53.54 brlcad np
14:53.57 *** part/#brlcad HTT-Bird (n=Birdyz0r@unaffiliated/htt-bird)
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15:33.56 CIA-60 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31752 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: cia test
15:36.05 mafm go CIA go!
15:36.13 pacman87 woohoo!
15:36.42 mafm Let CIA spy shamelessly on us and report to the rest
15:37.05 mafm One Oprah Show In Every Channel :P
15:38.29 brlcad laments that we couldn't actually find the problem
15:39.13 brlcad burley blames cia isp, but all indications still seem to point to an sf problem
15:39.31 brlcad it's working because we switched it over from using xmlrpc to using e-mails
15:41.36 mafm good old technology :)
15:56.39 CIA-60 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31753 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/Makefile: Attempt to make the building of src/other to stop on the first failure, as suggested by Dawn Thomas
15:59.45 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:27.08 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo__ (n=chatzill@189.71.38.236)
16:49.55 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
16:50.20 mafm re
16:50.53 mafm too bad... I wasn't here to post the "frist commtit" comment :(
17:16.38 CIA-60 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31754 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Adding command to set different polygon modes for the renderer (wireframe, solid, points), and another one to create and show simple geometries (only the command in place, still missing the geometry itself)
17:50.33 *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo__ (n=chatzill@189.13.240.57)
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20:04.09 brlcad mafm: hehe
20:04.12 brlcad commit early, commit often
20:04.34 brlcad I could certainly break cia again .. :)
20:13.00 mafm I can't commit more today
20:13.08 mafm geometries refuse to work
20:13.20 pacman87 they
20:13.26 pacman87 they're going on strike?
20:14.44 mafm they're complaining because of the gas price or something
20:14.55 mafm need a lot of power to run...
20:15.22 mafm well, I have to get going, I'm already late :)
20:15.33 mafm hopefully I'll got it working by tomorrow!
20:15.34 pacman87 bye, and good luck
20:15.36 mafm see you
20:15.43 mafm same for you :)
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