IRC log for #brlcad on 20080729

00:07.02 Ralith that's no fun
00:51.27 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32013 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (456 files in 67 dirs): Update src of STABLE to rel-7-12-4
00:59.12 *** join/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-251-1-116.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
00:59.28 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32014 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Remove from STABLE misc files that aren't in rel-7-12-4
00:59.49 Byron1 Is there a tutorial on how to use the matrix selection option in mged?
01:01.26 starseeker the graphical one or the command line?
01:02.21 Byron1 The graphical one I have the command line
01:02.35 starseeker 'fraid not
01:02.47 starseeker at least, that I've found so far
01:04.49 Ralith trail-and-error it, then write one :D
01:05.45 starseeker does small happy dance - that should bring STABLE up to 7.12.4
01:07.15 starseeker now to pull in whatever can be easily swiped from trunk and get ready for the actual 7.12.6 testing...
01:25.31 starseeker brlcad: How do you want me to handle the snarfing of changes from trunk for 7.12.6? Should I do it all outside svn and then do one big commit, or add them as I go?
01:26.15 *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net)
01:27.26 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32015 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/HACKING: Add r31220 from trunk - brlcad's better release tagging example.
01:44.27 *** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
01:46.40 brlcad Byron1: if you read the OED tutorial, it is perfectly applicable to the matrix selection gui
01:47.23 brlcad the gui has you pick a right-hand-side then a left-hand-side just like oed requires
01:47.36 brlcad from there, the edits are the same
01:50.47 starseeker should add a note to the oed tutorial about how to move assemblies/groups that are referenced in multiple locations
01:50.57 starseeker that threw me early on
01:52.09 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (33 files): remove the now empty mged_solid.h header
01:53.08 brlcad PrezKennedy: wow, really? put one together yourself or bought something?
01:53.59 brlcad starseeker: if they're fully tested, can add them as you go
01:54.24 brlcad in general STABLE is supposed to be a branch where it'll always checkout, build, and run and be something we've fully tested
01:54.43 starseeker crud
01:54.56 brlcad i.e. much higher validity overhead that it not only compiles by default everywhere but also passes all our known tests
01:55.12 starseeker had better wait then - this will take long enough without per-commit building
01:55.48 brlcad you could create a branch, commit your changes there
01:56.02 starseeker That's a thought
01:56.05 brlcad then when it's all working, merge that over to stable
01:56.30 starseeker had better do that - this will get too hard to keep track of otherwise
01:56.34 brlcad that's probably the best route given it's an adhoc set of changes that need to be integrated
01:59.17 *** join/#brlcad stustev (n=stustev@ip72-205-246-167.ks.ks.cox.net)
02:00.01 stustev hello
02:03.27 brlcad hello starseeker
02:03.28 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:03.33 brlcad oops, hello stustev
02:04.00 PrezKennedy brlcad, renting a cheapo one
02:05.49 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32017 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/: Create working branch in which to prepare 7.12.6.
02:06.55 starseeker brlcad: maybe we should tell CIA to ignore this branch? the STABLE update was noisy enough
02:08.16 brlcad PrezKennedy: ah
02:08.28 starseeker has no wish to spam
02:08.34 brlcad nah, it's fine
02:09.04 brlcad shows the live activity, tis a good thing :)
02:09.14 starseeker :-)
02:09.24 starseeker rather like slashdot reruns though...
02:09.37 brlcad anyone that doesn't like the irc chatter can add an /ignore
02:09.43 starseeker Ah
02:10.06 stustev I am new to BRLCAD
02:10.22 starseeker should go home soon but is hitting his stride now...
02:10.32 stustev I want to know if I can use variables for the arguments
02:10.43 stustev I haven't found that in the documentation
02:10.44 PrezKennedy brlcad, the only thing in the house that runs Linux is the router
02:11.00 stustev is it an undocumented feature?
02:11.54 Ralith stustev: arguments in mged commands?
02:11.58 stustev brlcad: are you the one that answered my bug report - if you are thanks a lot - I did an svn update and it compiled and runs good
02:12.18 Ralith starseeker: imo CIA activity is always fun to see, even if it's a repeat; as brlcad says, it shows active development which is very satisfying.
02:12.18 stustev yes - I want to build model with parameters
02:12.57 Ralith stustev: iirc, the mged command line interface is actually a modified TCL interpreter; you can write code directly into it, so yes, veriables can be used as arguments.
02:13.00 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32018 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (include/rtserver.h src/librtserver/rtserver.c): Add trunk r31226 by johnranderson for 32-bit vs 64-bit architectures
02:13.19 Ralith the mged tutorial has an somewhat fairly early on of using a loop to modify the properties of 8 spheres
02:14.13 stustev I will look for the 8 spheres. It will probably be just what I want. Thanks
02:14.27 starseeker Ralith: Does that example still work?
02:14.52 Ralith starseeker: uh, I don't recall hitting any problems when I did it
02:14.57 Ralith starseeker: it's part of the candle tutorials
02:14.58 Ralith er
02:15.02 Ralith stustev: it's part of the candle tutorials
02:15.35 stustev off to the candle tutorial - thanks again - bbl
02:16.01 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32019 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31229-31231 - various fixes
02:17.43 Ralith stustev: you can even pass commands to mged from other sources, meaning you can easily script modelling in just about anything
02:18.06 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32020 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/nirt/nirt.c: Add trunk revision 31239 - switch nirt's listforms to bu_vls.
02:18.26 Ralith and if you really want to get fancy you can forego mged entirely and work with the libraries it's based on to build models using any language that supports C linkage
02:20.18 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32021 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: time to level up. upgrade cliff yapp's entry from code contributor to developer. has had many months of sustained effort, hundreds of commits and counting. awesomeness.
02:20.47 brlcad stustev: probably, I answer a lot of reports .. but welcome(!) regardless
02:21.29 starseeker brlcad: thank you! :-)
02:21.43 brlcad stustev: there are a lot of ways to model parametrically too, depending on what your actual goal is
02:21.47 starseeker is humbled and honored
02:22.03 brlcad using tcl in mged, using C, using scripting outside mged, etc
02:23.09 brlcad starseeker: you probably passed up chris today :)
02:25.02 starseeker brlcad: Oh, while I'm thinking of it - do you want the hyp primitive in 7.12.6 or does it need more work first?
02:25.07 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32022 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: ws
02:25.17 brlcad i.e., into the top-ten committers
02:25.22 brlcad it needs more work
02:25.31 starseeker Ah :-)
02:25.37 brlcad there are todo items for it
02:25.49 starseeker well, doing a stable branch update is cheating a bit, but cool! :-)
02:26.15 brlcad ah, actually good point -- those don't affect your stats :)
02:26.28 brlcad so maybe not yet, but pretty close
02:26.44 starseeker :-)
02:27.51 brlcad mm, there's one more that deserves mention too
02:28.08 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32023 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/mged/ (adc.c chgview.c): Add trunk revisions 31245-31246 - brlcad tweaks for M_SQRT@_DIV2 and using vmath.h for defines.
02:29.48 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32024 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/vmath.h): Add trunk revisions 31246-31248 - more math tweaks, depreciate M_SQRT2_DIV2.
02:30.09 brlcad starseeker: next step .. break into that list of "core devs" .. seems to be a big jump to cross the 1000 count mark :)
02:30.40 starseeker Hehe :-)
02:30.47 starseeker "I have not yet begun to code"
02:31.04 brlcad misses mike ..
02:31.18 brlcad between him, bob, and I .. *damn*
02:31.45 brlcad he'd probably be between 15-20k commits now
02:32.00 starseeker can believe it
02:33.31 stustev brlcad: my goal is learning brlcad and modeling a replacement part for a machine of mine. I want to maintain an edge margin on a round plate for a bolt hole pattern. I would like to insert the diameter of the plate and the edge margin parametrically and then when I change the plate diameter the hole pattern diameter changes along with it.
02:33.39 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32025 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31262-31264 - Bob's fixes for graphical nirt.
02:35.19 PrezKennedy i miss mike too
02:35.52 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32026 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31268-31270 - more nirt fixes.
02:36.09 stustev I can see the substitution should work. It is all over the command line parameter. I am sure BRLCAD will do it. Does it use a # sign before the variable to tell the interpreter this is a variable?
02:37.25 brlcad # are comments
02:39.03 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32027 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (libbu/argv.c librtserver/rtserver.c): Add trunk revisions 31272, 31274, 31275 - john's obliquities calculation fix and brlcad's header fixes
02:39.07 starseeker wonders just how bad this will blow up on him when he tries to build it...
02:40.46 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32028 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Add trunk revisions 31277 - Bob's fix for copying nirt sfiles and mods to code that copies g_xxx.c - the latter may be an issue in this branch, TOCHECK
02:42.25 jonored stustev: it's $ to tell the interpreter this is a variable. If you're doing math than stuff like [expr {(1+2)/3}] (square brackets substitute return values, expr does math) is probably also helpful. The usual math functions are there in expr, too.
02:43.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32029 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/adrt/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31292-31296 - adrt tweaks.
02:44.46 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32030 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: Add trunk revision 31297 - fix to nirt's dest command.
02:46.02 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32031 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Add trunk revision 31299 - Archer raytrace control panel fix.
02:46.55 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32032 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: Add trunk revision 31300 - nirt whitespace fix.
02:48.14 starseeker 31300, that's a nice round number on which to call it a night
02:48.29 starseeker only 700 odd more to consider...
02:49.36 brlcad it's also worth noting -- though I'm sure the tutorial series covers it somewhere -- is that the mged tcl interpreter has "globbing" enabled by default so things like "draw [abc]*.r" works which otherwise wouldn't -- have to "set glob_compat_mode 0" if you want a pure tcl interpreter
02:49.54 brlcad starseeker: hehe
02:50.05 brlcad are you going through every committed revision?
02:50.29 starseeker essentially - scanning the svn log looking for things not related to libged, the summer projects, etc
02:50.39 brlcad nods
02:50.55 brlcad check NEWS to, to see at least from a high-level what you might want to include
02:51.02 brlcad s/to,/too,/
02:51.16 starseeker I'll undoubtedly suck in some build config changes unintentially, but that'll have to be fixed at the end once I know the final layouts
02:51.19 starseeker nots
02:51.21 starseeker er nods
02:51.31 brlcad most bug fixes are good to have
02:51.45 brlcad anything metaball related of course
02:52.12 starseeker expects to have to take a closer look at that, since metaball work may have come after the primitives directory restructuring
02:52.23 starseeker did you want to include that, btw?
02:52.36 brlcad the restructuring itself doesn't matter
02:52.50 starseeker Ah - might be easier to include it, if it doesn't tie in too heavily with libged
02:53.01 brlcad it doesn't tie in at all
02:53.08 starseeker oh, good :-)
02:53.11 brlcad it should be pretty safe
02:53.20 starseeker that'll make life much easier
02:53.27 brlcad src/libged mostly interacts with src/mged
02:53.35 starseeker didn't realize how many nirt fixes hadn't made it into a tarball release yet - ouch
02:53.39 brlcad and src/libtclcad to a lesser extent
02:54.01 brlcad yeah, sucks not being able to make a release, so this will be really good
02:54.12 brlcad hopefully we can post it before siggraph
02:54.36 starseeker will of course avoid most of the docbook for this purpose, but will probably stuff the tire doc in there since the latest/greatest tire should be in this release
02:55.02 starseeker will try - he is gradually getting the hang of svn and getting the big 7.12.2 -> 7.12.4 jump behind him helped
02:57.26 starseeker Oh - can I go ahead and include that tk fix for the newest Xorg releases?
02:57.51 starseeker <selfish> can't run without that on his home machine </selfish>
03:00.18 brlcad go for it
03:01.31 stustev jonored: thanks - I will look for the examples and try them. I very much appreciate the info and help!
03:05.09 jonored stustev: It's worth looking up some tutorial stuff on tcl if you can't find all of what you want in the brlcad docs - some of that came from reading up on tcl for me.
03:05.32 brlcad stustev: any time, we're always here ;)
03:06.47 brlcad new devs and power users (i.e. folks that leverage scripting) get my attention pretty quick, it's what we need more of most :)
03:12.05 Ralith who was mike?
03:12.21 brlcad Mike Muuss
03:12.34 Ralith also, the new release will have metaballs? Neat! I wasn't aware those were even CAD-relevant.
03:12.44 brlcad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Muuss
03:13.36 Ralith oh.
03:13.49 brlcad a truly brilliant guy to work with, exceptionally charismatic
03:15.08 Ralith I can imagine, with a history like that.
03:15.46 brlcad the wiki page doesn't really do him justice to say the least, but still informative
03:15.51 Ralith opens up his /usr/src/sbin/ping/ping.c
03:15.53 Ralith <PROTECTED>
03:15.53 Ralith <PROTECTED>
03:15.57 Ralith awesome.
03:16.50 brlcad brl-cad is sort of like ping a thousand times over
03:17.17 Ralith in what respect?
03:18.10 brlcad in that the characteristics that have made ping useful and a great tool for so many environments for so long
03:18.22 Ralith ah.
03:18.48 brlcad ping was the result of a late afternoon of focused intent, brl-cad the same focus over more than a decade
03:19.01 Ralith I'd thought that brl-cad's internals seemed amazingly well designed.
03:19.10 Ralith seems I was justified :)
03:19.19 brlcad yeah, they really are
03:19.30 brlcad i mean every code, every api has room for improvement
03:19.38 Ralith well, of course
03:19.51 brlcad but as far as long-lived codes go, pretty darn nice
03:19.57 Ralith but it's rare to find a package that hasn't been ruined by deadlines or ill-thought-out decisions
03:20.29 Ralith hell, it's rare to find any code at all that's survived more than five years outside of things like unix system internals
03:21.14 Ralith said quality is one of the things that engages me most about brl-cad, really
03:21.21 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32033 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: yet another level up. long overdue credit to dev daniel for his sustained and varied contributions to the project.
03:21.52 brlcad Ralith: that reminds me..
03:22.24 Ralith without that I'd have lost interest long ago.
03:23.50 brlcad you now have commit access so you can apply your patches yourself
03:24.00 Ralith wow
03:24.02 Ralith thanks!
03:24.08 brlcad I reviewed them and it was a mix of good and not so good for applying the changes to the rt^3 sources
03:24.24 brlcad think of it as probationary, don't break anything ;)
03:24.26 Ralith hehe
03:24.30 brlcad and be sure to read HACKING if you haven't yet
03:24.37 Ralith will do.
03:24.42 pacman87 Ralith: congrats
03:24.54 brlcad the biggest issue with the patches is that they were all bandaids instead of fixes
03:25.10 brlcad which is fine for src/other code -- those should always be the utter minimum to maintain portability
03:25.16 Ralith to be fair, that was my goal
03:25.42 Ralith most of them are likely to be outdated by changes to the build system or upstream improvements
03:25.43 brlcad nods
03:25.58 brlcad and changes that will likely be lost the next time we sync with upstream
03:27.14 brlcad in addition to not breaking anything, be sure to talk to mafm if you're working on that module
03:27.24 Ralith of course.
03:28.54 brlcad fyi, the Makefile he set up is entirely temporary .. if he or I or whomever can't get CMakeLists.txt to behave easily enough, I'll end up gutting the whole thing for GBS like the main brlcad module
03:29.46 Ralith yeah, that's what I was referring to with respect to my patchs' temporary nature
03:30.26 stustev wow - are all the tcl capabilities available in brlcad?
03:33.43 brlcad yep
03:34.08 brlcad most of tk's too
03:55.13 Ralith Is it desired behavior that mged does not exit when all GUI elements have been closed, and it's providing no command line interface (as when launched with no options)?
03:57.09 Ralith also, both reference links are broken :/
03:57.14 Ralith (in HACKING)
03:58.01 Ralith (in rt^3)
04:02.02 brlcad that's a bug, it should shut down
04:02.45 brlcad it used to shut down if the graphics menu was closed (only) but even that was undesirable since you might still want the command line and vice versa
04:03.08 brlcad rt^3's HACKING is a bit out-dated -- sorry for not mentioning that
04:03.27 brlcad see the one in the brlcad module
04:03.43 brlcad most of the same principles apply, just that it doesn't address some of the c++isms
04:05.33 Ralith kk
04:05.44 Ralith I noticed the main one seemed very different
04:07.02 brlcad rt^3 was originally for a different purpose but with a lot of overlapping intent with a more recent development, so it's become the place to define a separation between the new OO api and new gui from the rest of brl-cad
04:07.34 brlcad a way to encourage separation of responsibilities and not pollute the api in particular
04:27.48 starseeker reaches home base
04:28.20 starseeker Mike lent me his Mastering CMake book, so once I can find time to read it I'll take a more serious look at cmake
04:28.48 starseeker REALLY likes the idea of "change config once, build everywhere"
04:29.33 brlcad getting cmake to that point without a slew of platform-specific checks is going to be tough (instead of feature-specific)
04:30.10 starseeker true, but it at least provides a unified framework for the logic
04:30.17 brlcad right now, optional sub-configured cmakes is the bigger issue
04:31.56 brlcad hm, even GBS provides a unified framework for the logic
04:32.29 brlcad the difference is just that it'll generate various target types instead of just Makefiles
04:33.01 brlcad otherwise they're both single cross-platform solutions to the extent that make (and having a shell) is cross-platform
04:34.10 starseeker was under the impression that generating Microsoft specific build files was a considerable advantage
04:34.13 brlcad most of the work for either is the feature tests -- how do I "know" that this platform needs DM_OGL defined for example so that our opengl framebuffer compiles
04:34.41 starseeker ah
04:35.13 brlcad gbs's solution was scripted feature, compilation, and runtime tests that you can write (in a m4+shell script language)
04:35.37 brlcad how cmake deals with that portably to various environments is much more limited, making those tests a bit harder
04:35.50 brlcad s/bit/LOT/
04:36.25 starseeker wait - GBS?
04:36.42 brlcad begging projects to just fall back to "if I'm on windows, do this" style checks which are expensive to maintain over a long-term
04:36.45 brlcad ~gbs
04:36.46 ibot gbs is probably the GNU Build System, aka the Autotools, aka the suite of tools frequently used on UNIX and UNIX-like platforms that utilize the GNU Autoconf, Automake, and Libtool build tools. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_build_system for more details.
04:36.49 starseeker ah
04:37.15 starseeker could the issue be raised with the cmake devs?
04:41.47 starseeker really should sleep now...
04:47.21 *** part/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-251-1-116.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
04:50.11 brlcad stustev: it's really a fundamental implementation issue -- side effect of supporting various output formats
04:50.30 brlcad cmake has support for it -- it's just not *as* flexible as gbs
04:50.37 brlcad in the end, it could very well be good enough
04:50.54 brlcad most of the feature tests have a specific pattern anyways
04:51.01 starseeker one of those "we only find out by putting in an absurd amount of effort" questions?
04:51.35 starseeker scowls as his svn checkout and wonders if Comcast is up to their tricks again...
04:52.12 Ralith I know comcast does all sorts of nasty things, but messing with svn?
04:52.31 starseeker if it's tunneling through ssh, they might treat it like one more ssh connection
04:52.45 starseeker and they sure haven't liked my screen remote sessions through ssh in the past
04:52.51 Ralith they treat my ssh connections ok, so long as I don't leave them idle for long periods
04:53.10 Ralith otherwise they drop them
04:53.28 starseeker they do seem to be a bit better lately
04:53.33 starseeker ok, sleep
04:53.36 Ralith night
04:53.38 starseeker later all :-)
04:56.17 brlcad starseeker: pretty much
04:56.34 brlcad have to put a solid two weeks into it at least
04:57.02 brlcad fortunately, rt^3 is tiny so it's not so bad but it should provoke many of the same test types
04:58.03 brlcad Ralith: that sucks .. I don't tend to see that unless they're perfectly idle (e.g. on a screen window with no activity, but fine on an irc session)
04:59.27 Ralith brlcad: that's what I was referring to; I've never had an active session dropped, only things that I wasn't using/had forgotten about anyway.
05:02.02 Ralith it was only annoying insofar as that it tended to invalidate the master sockets that freebsd's ssh generates by default, meaning I'd have to manually delete them before opening a new session.
05:05.49 brlcad o.O
05:06.35 brlcad i've not seen that be an issue to .bz (brlcad.org) which I'm always on via screen, use for irssi -- that's an old 5.2 box
05:12.41 Ralith on completely idle connections?
05:20.47 brlcad probably not
05:21.08 brlcad but idle enough to get me disconnected if I'm on a quiet screen context
05:43.50 Ralith well, I only ever have to deal with comcast when I'm using someone else's wifi anyway.
05:44.27 Ralith normally (and currently) I'm on a neat local ISP which accidentally made my consumer-level link symmetric a year or two ago.
05:49.34 brlcad nice!
05:50.34 brlcad doubts it was accidental though .. probably just cheaper (e.g. some tech in the isp office saying "oh noes, we ran out of adsl ports .. gotta use the sdsl ones now"
05:51.40 Ralith hehe
05:51.46 Ralith well, I'm not about to call them up and ask what's going on.
05:53.20 brlcad iinteresting .. http://www.sdbestpractices.com/
05:53.35 brlcad wonder how technical it actually gets, some interesting tracks
05:53.40 brlcad spensive as hell though
05:56.17 brlcad wonders if anyone he knows has ever gone
05:58.31 Ralith not that great a website for a group that's all about software development.
06:14.12 brlcad heh
06:19.07 Ralith so what's a use case for metaballs in CAD?
06:19.41 brlcad analysis purposes
06:20.17 brlcad say you want to represent field strengths surrounding a given object
06:20.39 brlcad and determine when two fields are interacting, or when you are within a given field
06:21.22 brlcad metaballs serve that purpose very well to implicitly represent envelopes that have variable power associations between points in the field
06:23.09 brlcad useful for representing proximity as well -- if you want to roughly know when you are within a meter of a given object for example -- define a metaball structure for the primary boundary points on the given object, automatic solid envelope results
06:24.42 brlcad more of a CAE capability, but closely related
06:25.59 Ralith ahh.
06:28.18 Ralith it makes a lot more sense in that context.
06:28.58 brlcad yeah, wouldn't necessarily use it to represent actual geometry
06:29.11 brlcad unless you're in the business of making blobby things
06:29.41 brlcad could be used to represent certain fluids (inefficiently)
06:30.58 Ralith I can't imagine a CAD suite, especially a CSG one, would be the tool of choice for someone in the business of making blobby things.
06:31.23 Ralith still, it would be pretty fun to have full support for boolean operations on metaballs
06:32.01 brlcad nods
07:09.48 *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:19.17 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
08:21.06 mafm heya
08:40.38 *** part/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-204.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
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09:17.11 mafm w00t
09:17.37 mafm I'm getting orthographic modes working, and I think that I indirectly fixed another issue :)
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09:44.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32034 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h):
09:44.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: Fixing the problems with zooming in orthographic mode with minimum hassle, using
09:44.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: some of the capabilities of OGRE (instead of previous trials modifying view
09:44.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: matrices and so on). It works as expected with all current camera/input modes.
10:06.25 brlcad awesome!
10:07.30 mafm still have problems with panning though :D
10:07.48 brlcad heh
10:08.37 mafm there are two problems
10:09.07 mafm 1) with keyboard, I want to get panning to work the same independent of zoom
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10:11.20 mafm 2) with mouse, I cannot get the model to follow exactly the mouse
10:23.25 brlcad sounds like you have a fair bit of work ahead of you then :)
10:25.28 brlcad by panning independent of zoom, do you mean so that one key event corresponds to some amount of absolute translation or translation that is relative to the view (so a object will move N pixels left regardless of zoom/size)
10:25.48 mafm the latter
10:25.53 brlcad k
10:26.06 mafm well, whatever is desired
10:26.12 clock_ -/win 12
10:26.14 brlcad that works
10:26.30 mafm but at the moment I only get absolute translations
10:29.18 brlcad ~botmail for homovulgaris 29 jul - pcConstraint.h:39:20: error: pcHSet.h: No such file or directory
10:37.48 mafm one thing...
10:38.12 mafm in orthogonal mode, I see the same width in front of me than in the infinitum, right?
10:38.53 mafm say, if my camera is a box of 10m, I only see objects at max of that size either if they're in the foreground or in the background, right?
10:39.17 mafm (or otherwise they're cropped and I only see a chunk of the whole object)
10:44.29 brlcad right
10:45.52 brlcad you might have depth-clipping, but things are otherwise parallel such that a 2mx2mx2m box looks the same as a 2mx2mx200m box (presuming you're looking down the z axis)
10:46.08 brlcad oh, and if it wasn't mentioned! .. jeez
10:46.16 brlcad I sure hope you used right-hand rule
10:46.21 brlcad +Z is up
10:46.55 brlcad should have made sure I said that earlier, much earlier
10:49.25 brlcad if you want to add support for left-handed or other orientations (e.g. +y is up), go for it -- but default for all modes should be +Z is up, right hand rule, and if you're looking down the -X axis with +Z going up, +Y goes to the right .. +x is the "front", +y is the "left", +z is the "top", etc
10:49.57 brlcad example diagram is on the mged quick reference
10:50.26 brlcad pretty standard for most CAD systems, but not for some graphics systems
10:50.40 mafm yahooooo, I got it (for blender mode)
10:51.12 brlcad ~mafm++
10:51.19 mafm +Z is up?
10:51.23 mafm ~mafm-- :P
10:54.27 brlcad +Z is most definitely "up"
10:54.47 brlcad we were going to make shirts for that for last year's gsoc party :)
10:56.23 mafm I have +X right, +Y up, +Z backwards
10:56.28 brlcad some games also chose differently, mostly due to directx pollution
10:56.41 brlcad yeah, that's bad
10:57.07 brlcad that's view-centric coordinates instead of 3D environment-centric
10:57.56 brlcad basing it on an XY plane to match your display (usually for rendering purposes), but when you move to 3D environments, that is the ground-plane and z goes up
10:58.28 brlcad that'll definitely need to change
10:59.19 mafm uh
10:59.58 mafm that'll hurt
11:00.24 mafm I was just using OGRE defaults, didn't know that there were different habits for CAD systems
11:01.06 brlcad yeah, the alternative is entirely counter-intuitive to CAD
11:01.34 brlcad ogre has a setting for which orientation iirc
11:01.50 brlcad one of its perks
11:02.06 mafm for "which orientation"?
11:02.18 brlcad for setting the orientation
11:02.20 brlcad right/left hand
11:02.29 brlcad z up, y up iirc
11:02.57 brlcad otherwise z-up/y-up should be easy to fix, it's one rotation
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11:03.53 brlcad what you described is a left-handed coordinate system
11:04.13 brlcad that's wrong on two-counts ;)
11:04.37 mafm really? Z is backwards, pointing towards you
11:04.56 brlcad ah, okay
11:04.58 mafm I think that it's only a rotation away (along X axes)
11:05.49 brlcad I read +z backwards as +z going away from you
11:06.50 mafm why is that important? for creating things programatically?
11:07.28 brlcad it cascades across various issues
11:08.34 mafm saving/loading files too
11:08.45 brlcad you're constantly dealing with proper orientation and alignments, tools and commands that rely on knowing which way up is
11:09.54 brlcad import/export of data for sure, though many importers will give you an option to realign since there are still a small minority that use a different handedness or a different orientation
11:09.56 mafm oh goody
11:13.28 brlcad most real-world systems (flight control, simulators, cartography) use the convention of living in the X/Y plane (what should be natural/intuitive)
11:13.44 brlcad CAD systems reflect that
11:13.55 brlcad (as they should)
11:15.12 mafm that's a religious thing I guess, for me it's more natural the OGRE way :D
11:15.53 mafm Ogre::RenderSystem::_setViewMatrix || Ogre::RenderSystem::_setWorldMatrix
11:16.11 mafm one of these would do, wouldn't it?
11:16.31 brlcad it's not just religion -- if I asked you to draw a top-down view of your house on a sheet of paper and asked you to draw a coordinate grid over it -- you'd most likely label them x and y
11:17.24 brlcad one of those should do the trick I believe yes
11:17.52 mafm hopefully that won't thrash the GUI!
11:19.02 brlcad the *only* reason the other convention came to pass was because of display system programmers that started with a 2D context, which was naturally labeled x/y, was extended to 3D where they just went "into" the display
11:19.07 mafm the X/Y it depends on the situation, if you're used to draw coordinates of a projectile (classical high school physics problems) you'd do Y up :)
11:19.28 brlcad it's focusing on what is doing the looking instead of what you're looking at, the world being represented and how that correlates with the one we live in
11:19.50 mafm I guess that I'm biased because of the displays too :D
11:19.52 brlcad you do X/Y when you only have two to work with no matter what view
11:22.43 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32035 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Fixing the problems with panning when controlled by keyboard (currently for Blender Camera mode only).
11:23.56 brlcad like I said, it's mostly whether you emphasize the viewer (viewing system) or the environment being viewed .. I even learned +Y is up for graphics and thought similarly until I had to model stuff that mattered and became familiar with both
11:24.34 mafm scared
11:25.11 mafm ok ok +Z is up, but don't make me learn it by modeling with MGED! :P
11:25.12 mafm ;)
11:25.53 mafm have to go to lunch, hopefully I'll get inspiration for fixing the panning with mouse for MGED mode
11:25.55 mafm bbiab
11:26.06 brlcad heh, cya
11:49.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32036 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): Update version to 7.13.0
11:53.44 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32037 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcConstraint.h: unbreaking the build. accidental premature code insertion
11:55.34 mafm "accidental premature code insertion"... so that's how they call it now
12:02.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32038 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (dir.c setup.c):
12:02.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: Added the killrefs command that kills/removes all references of the specified
12:02.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: objects by combinations. The objects themselves are not killed. Also added the
12:02.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: -a option to killtree that arranges for "all" references to also be removed.
12:08.17 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32039 10/brlcad/trunk/ (63 files in 8 dirs): Fleshing out a few libged commands that were previously stubbed in.
12:15.02 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32040 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Add revisions 31301-31305 to pre-7-12-6; misc. fixes to Tcl, nirt, config.ac
12:25.55 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am wdb_track.c): Temporarily adding wdb_track.
12:30.46 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32042 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am killrefs.c): Adding killrefs.
12:43.25 mafm yay! got it
12:43.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32043 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/open.c: Cut-n-paste fix.
12:44.51 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32044 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Removed ged_rt_gettrees.
12:45.39 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32045 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CameraModeMGED.cxx):
12:45.39 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: Fixing the problems with panning when controlled by mouse (currently for
12:45.39 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: MGED/Shift-grips Camera mode only). In the end it was very simple, but only
12:45.39 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: once we got the relative dimensions of the camera and we're working in
12:45.39 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: orthogonal projection mode.
12:51.51 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32046 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (362 files in 41 dirs): Start merging the primitives reorg into pre-7-12-6
12:52.44 mafm brlcad: the constrained modes work according to the initial coordinates, not with the screen coordinates... are there any document explaining this?
12:55.04 mafm any other person knowing the information is welcome to reply, of course
13:00.53 mafm when using unconstrained mode, it works in "screen mode", you move the object according to the camera plane
13:01.15 mafm or rather, move the camera up/down/left/right
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13:02.40 mafm but when using constrained mode, this works constraining to "X" axis in world coordinates or something like that, so you hardly can control where to move the view to
13:03.24 mafm at least I'd expect that constrained modes would constrain it to only up/down or left/right in "camera space"
13:06.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32047 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/ (68 files in 33 dirs): more primitive directory restructuring
13:14.47 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32048 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (59 files in 49 dirs): Merge trunk r 31311-31319 - tweaks, adrt updates
13:30.06 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32049 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dup.c: make prototype match declaration for ged_dir_check (missing static)
13:30.53 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32050 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Saving the state of camera rotations before dragging, so they continue to rotate from the current position instead of starting from scratch (for both Blender and MGED modes).
13:30.54 mafm what happens today with brl-cad, developers on asteroids? :)
13:31.12 mafm amazing, being that it's the peak of the summer :)
14:03.01 PrezKennedy programmers are allergic to the sun ;)
14:03.31 d_rossberg brlcad: did you get my e-mail from friday?
14:56.41 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32051 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Cleanup of #includes
14:57.52 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32052 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiWindowManager.h: Renaming to remove inconsistencies
14:59.16 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32053 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CameraManager.h GuiWindowManager.cxx): Adding event for when we update the camera every frame
15:05.09 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32054 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Temporarily adding wdb_importFg4Section.
15:06.14 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: Declare ged_open_dbip().
15:20.59 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: The declaration of ged_open_dbip has moved to ged_private.h
15:21.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: sort source files
15:25.37 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/importFg4Section.c libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Added the importFg4Section command to libged.
15:31.29 poolio ooo, when's the new release supposed to be out?
15:41.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32059 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: do not call rt_resource_clean_complete() for rt_uniresource
15:42.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserverTest.c: Mods to work with changes in rtserver
16:11.56 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32061 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: rt_clean_resource_basic() now sets the conditions that are checked by rt_init_resource(), allowing resource structures to be cleaned and initialized again.
16:14.51 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Now that the init-clean-init cycle is possible, restore the call to rt_clean_resource_complete() for rt_uniresource. Librtserver is once again free of memory leaks.
16:24.51 starseeker poolio: It'll be a bit yet - I'm still collecting updates while trying to avoid accidently pulling libged changes
16:27.20 starseeker then there's all the testing, plus this being my first time putting a release together :-)
16:35.57 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32063 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add r31321-31326 from trunk - TODO updates and nirt features.
16:37.08 poolio starseeker: good luck :)
16:38.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32064 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (COPYING configure.ac): Add r31329-31331 from trunk - typo fixes, don't mix sysystem tcl with non-system itcl.
16:42.07 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32065 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add r31333 from trunk - add asc2g and g2asc to cmake lists.
16:43.38 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32066 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/include/bu.h: Add r31337-31338 from trunk - new bu_list example.
16:48.55 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32067 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (BUGS NEWS src/proc-db/tire.c): Add r31348,31349,31354,31358 - tire fixes.
16:51.10 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32068 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: Add r31366-74 - adrt tweaks.
16:55.46 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32069 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/rt/viewarea.c: Add r31406 - viewarea fix.
17:16.26 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32070 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiBaseWindow.cxx: Cleanup of #includes
17:20.50 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32071 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/doc/docbook/oed/oed.xml: Add r31430 - Add oed tweaks suggested by Paul Tanenbaum, add acknowledgements.
17:34.18 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32072 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/doc/docbook/oed/oed.xml: Fix to lollipop model suggested by Paul Tanenbaum (r31458)
17:36.34 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32073 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Upload r31456 and 31457 - rtserver simplification and loop -c feature
17:37.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32074 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/HACKING: Update how to make ChangeLog
17:42.03 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32075 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (TODO include/bu.h src/libbu/argv.c src/mged/rtif.c): Upload r31480,81, and 87 - libbu updates and TODO update
17:42.51 brlcad aaah, the mged quick ref is finally getting out of date .. hrmph
17:43.03 brlcad beams at all the activity
17:45.02 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32076 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (NEWS doc/Makefile.am doc/mged.sh doc/mged.tr): News updates, rename mged.tr to mged.sh
17:48.12 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32077 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Naming convention build target updates.
17:51.30 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32078 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (TODO misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi): Upload r31523 NSIS updates for version aware Windows installation
17:53.55 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32079 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: archlinux PKGBUILD update - don't strip debugging, keep docs
17:54.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32080 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
17:54.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: per modeler request, bob added a new killrefs command that removes all
17:54.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: references to a given object (without killing the object itself) as well as a
17:54.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: new -a option to killtree so it removes all references in addition to killing
17:54.45 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: the object and it's hierarchy. these be very very dangerous commands.
18:01.14 starseeker next step, kill tree except for objects referenced in another tree ;-)
18:04.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32081 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Commit r31542, 31544-51549 - new mged regression test, tire cleanup by Sean, column width change in helplib.tcl, other tweaks
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18:16.14 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32082 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (35 files in 7 dirs): Uploaded r31575 - 31585 - cleanup by Sean
18:17.44 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32083 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/sh/ (news2tracker.sh tracker.sh): Update news2tracker.sh and tracker.sh, r31611-12
18:18.02 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32084 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Update version to 7.13.0
18:28.55 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32085 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Uploaded r31669 - 31675 - cleanup by Sean, fast4-g checks, note pipe primitive issue
18:34.35 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32086 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Upload trunk r31695:31699 Updates and fixes to sketch and extrude
18:36.13 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32087 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c): Upload trunk r31701 - more sketch updates
18:38.44 mafm I go now, take care folks
18:39.35 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32088 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/conv/g2asc.c: Upload trunk r31703 - g2asc tweak
18:41.52 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32089 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (include/bu.h src/conv/CMakeLists.txt): r31721 comment, BU_BITV_ZEROALL requires #include <string.h>
18:44.31 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32090 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: r31729 - sketch sanity checks
18:46.01 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32091 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/proc-db/tire.c: r31736 - remove tire debugging printout
18:51.38 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32092 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (BUGS src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c): r31743-44 - fix pipe performance issue by eliminating BU_GETSTRUCT for hits, note about failure of toy jeep to triangulate
18:55.28 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32093 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: r31772,31775 - fix for infinite loop when dbconcat was called with NO_AFFIX
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20:02.15 *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
20:07.39 poolio brlcad: Do you know if there is a way, given a 3d curve, to get the 2d trimming curve when projecting that 3d curve onto the surface? I'm thinking of just manually evaluating the control points, but was wondering if you knew of any opennurbs functionality like that?
20:16.20 brlcad poolio: src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp
20:16.35 brlcad pullback_curve() in particular
20:17.16 brlcad very much green code
20:17.21 brlcad but does exactly that
20:17.45 poolio brlcad: ah, thanks
20:17.59 Ralith >.<
20:18.08 Ralith so my g++ has decided not to support exceptions for some reason.
20:18.28 brlcad Ralith: odd
20:18.53 brlcad gcc needs -fexceptions, but it should be enabled by default for g++
20:19.10 Ralith passing -fexceptions manually changes nothing
20:19.25 brlcad then sounds like you might have some other problem..
20:20.27 Ralith serious one, too
20:20.43 Ralith I can't properly test any of my changes until ogre works, and ogre depends on exceptions being catchable
20:20.45 poolio brlcad: hmm, so that routine looks very imprecise. If I find the (u,v) for each of the 3d control points, will that work?
20:21.05 brlcad poolio: imprecise how?
20:21.23 brlcad make it more precise ;)
20:21.33 poolio well, it's sampling and interpolating between points
20:21.44 poolio By definition, isn't that inaccurate?
20:22.22 brlcad of course it is, but what alternative approach did you have in mind?
20:22.50 brlcad for two joined surfaces, there's definitely something better that can be done
20:22.59 brlcad but for a single curve, single surface..
20:23.13 poolio Well, I have all the control points for the 3d curve, I just want to have a 2d curve that traces that 3d curve on a planar surface (note that the 3d curve is on the 3d plane)
20:25.39 brlcad and.. how do you go about tracing that curve
20:26.16 poolio So my real question is whether a curve defined by the same knots, but control points in a different dimension will match the 3d curve when the 2d control points are the (u,v) on the surface that corresponde to the (x,y,z) of the control points of the 3d curve
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20:30.00 brlcad hm
20:32.32 brlcad if the surfaces have the same order and are planar, probably (at least that's the intuitive assumption)
20:33.02 brlcad not sure about curved surfaces though
20:33.18 brlcad actually don't think so for curved
20:33.34 poolio wait, surfaces plural? I'm just doing one 3d curve on one surface
20:33.52 brlcad just one surface
20:34.12 poolio yeah, for planar I thought it would work. Maybe I'll just try it and see :)
20:34.24 Ralith ahah! fixed my gcc.
20:34.36 brlcad Ralith: congrat
20:36.13 Ralith aaand g3d loads! :D
20:36.20 brlcad woot
20:40.36 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32094 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (BUGS TODO): r31791 - note primitive selection bug in mged
20:41.30 brlcad starseeker: be sure to revert the cpa changes to src/rt/rtarea.c for release
20:41.31 Ralith aaand latest svn doesn't build :/
20:42.22 starseeker brlcad: So we no longer want those to go in before the next release per the TODO?
20:42.28 Ralith fixd.
20:43.25 brlcad starseeker: yeah, the center of presented area changes (from andre) modify the output format and hasn't been fully tested yet
20:43.44 starseeker Ah, ok
20:43.46 brlcad it needs to be a separate section in the file and coordianted with the s2 folks
20:43.47 starseeker sorry
20:43.51 brlcad since they rely on it
20:43.54 brlcad you didn't know
20:44.37 starseeker has probably bitten off way more than he can chew, but oh well - after all the chatter in IRC I have to make it work now :-)
20:44.39 brlcad so since that's not done yet, just easier to revert it for now until it can be fixed
20:45.00 brlcad Ralith: I see no commits to fix anything.. :)
20:45.25 Ralith brlcad: that's because I'm polishing and killing unnecessary stuff still.
20:45.52 Ralith e.g. OIS seems to work fine without the mouse tweaks
20:46.00 brlcad ah, k
20:47.01 starseeker me blinks - trunk doesn't have rtarea.c
20:47.07 starseeker at least not in src/rt
20:47.22 starseeker confound it, I missed that somehow
20:48.20 brlcad no you didn't
20:48.27 brlcad i said the wrong file
20:48.34 brlcad all the rt's are view*.c
20:48.38 starseeker ah
20:48.39 brlcad viewarea.c
20:49.03 brlcad they use the same front-end and back-end, just using different view files for behavior
20:49.41 poolio brlcad: well it looks like there is no way in opennurbs to go from (x,y,z) -> (u,v) for a given surface :\
20:51.29 brlcad poolio: nope
20:51.35 brlcad they don't have any evaluation routines
20:51.47 brlcad seriously, that's what pullback does
20:52.04 brlcad you could modify the algorithm to detect pullback onto a planar surface
20:52.33 brlcad but that's the action of (x,y,z) -> (u,v) .. you pull back a 3D point into 2D uv space
20:52.34 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32095 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (10 files in 2 dirs): revert r31046 from trunk, per advice from Sean - needs more testing
20:53.16 brlcad there are other evaluation routines in opennurbs_ext.cpp .. built up from functionality (intentionally) missing from openNURBS
20:53.57 brlcad they removed all evaluation routines specifically because they don't want the library to be used exactly the way we're using it -- at least they're not going to help
20:54.26 brlcad they sell a product (Rhino SDK) that implements all the needed algorithms (via some of the best approaches)
20:54.33 poolio Hmm, alright. It just seems like it shouldn't be this difficult...I have a 3d edge and I just want a face with the area it encloses
20:58.49 starseeker poolio: <grin> There's the moon right there doggone it - I just want to go stand on it ;-)
20:59.19 poolio starseeker: ... silly rabbit
21:00.13 poolio brlcad: Do you know how the old nurbs code did it? The way they define the surfaces for the top and bottom of the tgc is by defining the rectangular surface and then defining a 3d curve. That's it
21:00.22 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32096 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/Makefile: Improvements to portability and removal of explicit build from install targets
21:00.32 Ralith :]
21:00.50 poolio oh hey, Ralith's first commit?
21:00.54 Ralith yep
21:00.57 poolio ~Ralith++
21:01.02 Ralith :D
21:02.47 brlcad starseeker: oh, and I need to revert an mged command too -- remind me when it's starts stabilizing
21:02.56 brlcad ~ralith++
21:03.24 starseeker brlcad: Will do
21:03.39 brlcad poolio: ah, and you need the 2D uv to define that surface
21:03.52 starseeker is taking the naive approach of grabbing everything that looks like it might be appropriate, and then figuring out what broke
21:04.02 brlcad poolio: that means there is a nurb_* pullback routine somewhere too
21:04.23 poolio ah k. I'll mess around with pullback then
21:04.29 brlcad though that's odd -- paul stay didn't finish trims
21:04.40 brlcad odd that he'd use a trimmed surface
21:05.22 brlcad poolio: and there should be a third implementation of pullback in boole too ;)
21:06.20 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32097 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: Commit r31810 and r31811 (31810 got sucked into the previous commit) - regression test typo fix and ignore dsps with no data more gracefully.
21:08.35 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32098 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: r31813 - clean up dsp warning messages
21:10.32 pacman87 woohoo
21:10.45 pacman87 finally got the union working
21:10.55 pacman87 still needs more thorough testing
21:11.08 Ralith hm. Anyone know the freenode channel for autotools?
21:14.54 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32099 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 4 dirs): r31816, r31819-22 - cleanup, RFC822 format support
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21:16.21 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32100 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/other/tk/generic/tk.h: r31823 - fix to Tk for newer Xorg installations.
21:18.11 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32101 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (Makefile.am include/conf/Makefile.am): r31831 - reset compilation time every time make is invoked
21:19.48 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32102 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: r31834 - fix bug in dsp caught by solids regression test
21:19.50 brlcad Ralith: #gnu iirc
21:20.00 brlcad did you have a specific question, though?
21:20.05 brlcad pretty strong expertise in here
21:21.27 Ralith oh, I suppose there would be
21:22.02 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32103 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libbu/parse.c: r31835 - use strcad instead of strcpy
21:22.42 Ralith I could make my OIS fix a lot more elegant if I knew how to set a boolean, and include/exclude certain files from the build as well as define/leave undefined a preprocessor macro
21:22.54 Ralith according to the state of that boolean
21:24.48 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32104 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libbu/parse.c: r31837 - reactivate %S format in bu_structparse_argv
21:24.50 Ralith that way I could define something along the lines of USE_JOYSTICK to false on all non-windows/linux platforms, exclude certain files from the build entirely (removing the messy entire file #ifdef hack my patch used) and use a feature-specific rather than platform-specific #define in config.h for the files that need to be only partially modified
21:26.16 Ralith I could hack up something to provide the preprocessor macro via cflags from a ./configure check for the linux joystick headers, but that's still pretty inelegant
21:26.27 Ralith and would probably break windows joysticks
21:29.51 Ralith I think all I need to do is make conditional the contents of libOIS_la_SOURCES from src/Makefile.am and the value of a new config.h #define
21:30.37 Ralith preferably through the same mechanism, such that no situation could produce a case in which the files were added but the macro was defined false
21:30.42 Ralith or vis versa
21:30.42 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32105 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (8 files in 5 dirs): push USE_PROTOTYPES up into common.h, push USE_FBSERV into dm.h
21:31.52 brlcad catchs up and reads
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21:42.29 brlcad Ralith: is it OIS that's using GBS?
21:42.55 brlcad the src/other/Makefile is temporary until someone(tm) can hook up proper build system integration
21:43.10 brlcad that gets at the cmake comments I made yesterday
21:52.03 Ralith it's OIS, yes
21:52.41 Ralith I didn't worry about elegance when fixing up the generic makefile for exactly that reason
22:02.00 brlcad nods
22:02.12 brlcad yeah, I wouldn't worry about the clean fix for their build system
22:02.47 brlcad absolute minimum effort to make them work (which sometimes is "replace their build system")
22:05.43 brlcad in that specific case, what will be interesting is how cmake can be configured to optionally compile a sub-project that is gbs-based
22:06.44 brlcad ois is pretty small at least, so worse case is write a cmake build for them (presuming we stick with cmake instead of gbs ourselves)
22:13.56 Ralith kk
22:14.00 Ralith dirty hack it is
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22:20.06 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32106 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ois/src/linux/ (4 files): Dirty hacks to make OIS build on FreeBSD until upstream ports joystick support properly
22:30.15 Ralith Anybody familiar with cmake?
22:32.32 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32107 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/ (6 files in 3 dirs): FreeBSD support for Mocha
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22:48.14 stustev good evening gentlemen - I have a good handle on the variables - I am able to write a script using variables and create geometry. I have a question about patterns this evening. The example in the documentation stops as if some pages are left out. I am talking about the cylindrical pattern example. The other patterns are not very clear about the implementation but the cylinder pattern seems to stop short. Can anyone point me to a completed
22:53.57 *** part/#brlcad stustev (n=stustev@ip72-205-246-167.ks.ks.cox.net)
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23:42.25 starseeker stustev: I would suggest looking at clone for patterning geometry
23:42.32 brlcad he left
23:42.40 starseeker ah
23:42.55 starseeker notes scrollback after the fact
23:43.58 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32108 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): r31882-85 misc tweaks, doc updates
23:45.28 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32109 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (libtclcad/Makefile.am other/blt/Makefile.am): r31904-5 - update blt dependancy information
23:47.29 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32110 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 2 dirs): r31909-13 - merge rt_simple into rtexample, configure.ac tweak
23:49.46 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32111 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (configure.ac include/vmath.h src/librtserver/rtserver.c): r31932-34 add V2ADD3 to vmath.h, typo fix, rtserver cleanup
23:55.13 CIA-23 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32112 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (NEWS src/proc-db/tire.c): r31935,36,46,93 - fix accidental tread clipping and jagged edge.
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