IRC log for #brlcad on 20080919

01:26.28 *** join/#brlcad cad24 (n=4347bd2c@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:35.08 starseeker_ PrezKennedy: heh, no not yet
01:35.37 starseeker_ doubts IRC bots have gotten good enough with AI to take over cars, but you never know...
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03:00.34 brlcad starseeker_: doc-book wiki is a project I've been involved with loosely for years -- tis a great project, but unfortunately not a great wiki
03:01.18 brlcad the mediawiki and drupal docbook integrations are more interesting since they can hook into what we already have better
03:01.41 brlcad and yes, doclifter is the one
03:04.52 brlcad starseeker_: and Tkhtml3 should be more than enough to display our stuff, you really shouldn't need a complicated comprehensive html support package
03:05.11 brlcad in fact the smaller/simpler the better/easier it will be to maintain and integrate
03:16.19 brlcad starseeker_: also, Tkhtml at http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/ is not GPL, it's LGPL
03:51.52 starseeker_ brlcad: They seem to have both GPL and LGPL statements in their tarball: http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/tkhtml.tar.gz
03:51.59 starseeker_ brlcad: and the README is saying GPL
03:52.03 starseeker_ is confused
03:52.22 brlcad well, sources say lgpl, and those are all we'd need
03:52.40 starseeker_ which is the better one to look at do you think?
03:53.18 brlcad well, it's certainly a lot simpler than tkthml3
03:53.53 starseeker_ nods.
03:54.01 brlcad I'd give tkhtml3 a try, see if it's simple to integrate
03:54.11 brlcad if not, fall back to the one that you know should be simple
03:54.16 starseeker_ Right
03:55.05 starseeker_ Don't know if you've had a chance to look - I got above and below working, but at the cost of yet another tree walking routine.
03:55.33 brlcad saw the commit
03:56.05 starseeker_ is thinking when the tree walker rework comes he'll rip all that out, but leave it for now?
03:56.41 brlcad that's the idea for all the walkers eventually
03:56.48 brlcad at least most of them
03:59.43 starseeker_ nods
04:00.06 starseeker_ was actually a good experience - taught me something about how general a really good tree walker will need to be
04:00.30 starseeker_ should I rip out the nested_region type?
04:04.21 brlcad does the added value outweigh the added complexity and maintenance burden?
04:04.30 brlcad if it does, keep it; if not, rip it
04:05.16 starseeker_ Added complexity is virtually ziltch for that type.
04:05.34 starseeker_ at least, given the need to detect assembly types too ;-)
04:06.15 starseeker_ Actually was able to show Mike that option to help him get at a model problem today
04:06.22 starseeker_ he seemed to like it
04:06.34 starseeker_ even though that wasn't his actual problem ;-)
04:06.55 brlcad remember everything that's involved, not just code
04:07.34 brlcad documentation over a lifetime, etc
04:08.17 starseeker_ nods. I'd say that it's actually much simpler to document that option than it is to explain search -below -type region -type region
04:08.43 starseeker_ so in that sense (docs included) it's probably a net savings
04:09.10 brlcad and the fact that it breaks the consistency (it's not a type like the others, it's sort of a metatype)
04:09.17 starseeker_ so is assembly
04:09.25 brlcad yep
04:09.44 brlcad that's not reason to keep it, that's reason to do something about both of them ;)
04:10.18 brlcad that said, if you think it's really worth it -- then i'll go with that
04:11.09 starseeker_ I'm willing to concede that anyone likely to appreciate (or care about) nested regions and assemblies can probably understand examples explaining how to detect them
04:12.01 starseeker_ Tell you what - if I do a tutorial-style doc for the search command that includes subsections on spotting assemblies and nested regions, I'll support yanking them as types.
04:12.19 starseeker_ 's main concern is to make sure usability is there
04:13.14 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32674 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: make sure creating points with the in command will not result in empty point sets. also make sure they match the number specified at the beginning, not the number provided (which could be larger)
04:13.24 starseeker_ reflects on the deafening irony of that concern given MGED's usability status, but still...
04:13.39 starseeker_ cheers the point primitive
04:17.42 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32675 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: missing declaration of wdb_stub_cmd for windows (it's used by mged)
04:24.52 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32676 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/libbu/vls.c):
04:24.52 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: fix a bug in bu_vls_gets where a fixed buffer size of BUFSIZE*10 was incorrectly
04:24.52 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: returning truncated/short lines. this caused nulls to get inserted during reads
04:24.52 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: that in turn caused commands like mged's 'in' command to fail. encountered this
04:24.52 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: problem when creating a new pnts object (though it conceivably affects *any*
04:24.55 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: mged command.
04:29.22 brlcad is impressed to find out that you can actually display half a million points interactively
04:29.38 starseeker_ wow
04:29.49 starseeker_ that is pretty impressive
04:29.54 brlcad at least half a million, haven't seen how high it'll go
04:30.02 starseeker_ heh
04:30.14 starseeker_ feels pity for brlcad's poor computer
04:34.41 starseeker_ brlcad: You might find some interesting stuff here: http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/Virgo/data_download.html
04:35.53 starseeker_ This sucker is 280 megs, not sure how many points that equates to: http://www.vis.uni-stuttgart.de/eng/research/fields/current/pointclouds/virgo.pcld.gz
04:39.10 brlcad even displaying them as spheres works relatively reasonably implying that it should be fine to display upwards of about 10M points "interactively"
04:39.42 starseeker_ jeez
04:40.00 starseeker_ how many points are we looking at for a full vehicle scan?
04:40.19 brlcad nobody has ever done one
04:40.39 starseeker_ heh - well, that's one point ;-)
04:40.52 brlcad it's not even clear (to me) that it's still anywhere close to being a viable/efficient modeling approach (scanning)
04:41.12 brlcad but it is useful for visualization and as reference points for "real modeling"
04:41.28 starseeker_ That's my thought
04:41.46 starseeker_ Dwayne can follow a point cloud around making primitives for the surface
04:43.58 starseeker_ I really don't see how a point cloud can serve as anything but (maybe) a basis for a single mesh
04:44.15 brlcad now the cool trick would be to leverage what we did with the vulcan scanner
04:45.24 brlcad click a button, select a couple points from the scan, and it'd automatically make primitives for you
04:46.15 starseeker_ Hmm. Maybe have it prompt for a user selected list of points to "fit" a user selected primitive type to?
04:46.57 starseeker_ or a version of in where it's a option to use the mouse to sample the point cloud and have it print the xyz coords to the in command?
04:49.10 brlcad that's sort of what lee and I did
04:49.23 brlcad the first one at least
04:49.45 starseeker_ first one is probably more useful :-)
04:49.49 brlcad the vulcan is a point-sample cmm device, gives you individual points in 3space
04:50.26 brlcad so we came up with a system where you could create primitives using a set of conventions
04:51.24 brlcad so like for an N-sided "plate", for example, you'd click a point on each corner of the top, and then one point for the depth
04:51.35 brlcad and it'd automatically make the corresponding solid
04:51.56 brlcad (which in that exaple best fit a sketch and an extrude)
04:52.35 starseeker_ nice
04:52.35 brlcad if you had a cylindrical object, you could select three points on one of the ends and a fourth point for the length, and it'd make the tgc/rcc
04:53.50 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32677 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.1 search.c):
04:53.50 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: Now that above and below are working, there is no need for special case logic to
04:53.50 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: handle assemblies and nested regions in the type section. Since those are
04:53.50 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: likely to be common search cases, include examples of how to use below to find
04:53.51 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: nested regions and assemblies have been added to the man page.
04:54.27 brlcad there was a dozen or so defined, mged has it now as (the undocumented, as it's pre-alpha) parse_points command
04:54.44 starseeker_ sweet
04:54.46 brlcad expecting labels and points from a file
04:55.14 brlcad which is what src/mged/points is
04:55.32 starseeker_ should those live in libged eventually?
05:00.05 starseeker_ brlcad: Well, this mortal must seek sleep - thanks for talking me into the type handling change. That does seem cleaner.
05:01.04 brlcad i wasn't trying to talk you into one way or the other, just to think about all the tradeoffs
05:01.18 starseeker_ either way, good thoughts :-)
05:01.58 starseeker_ also realized that with .mgedrc you could simply alias a findnestedregions command to a specific search
05:02.39 starseeker_ same for a wide variety of common searches - worth mentioning as a labour saving technique in the main docs.
05:06.16 starseeker_ shutdown -h brain
05:13.38 brlcad hrm
05:13.57 brlcad kicks CIA-4
05:13.57 CIA-4 ow
05:19.50 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32681 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: beware of c99isms, ws. add to dist.
05:20.08 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32682 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: beware of c99isms, ws. add to dist.
05:29.28 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32683 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: don't call it isblank, don't rely on it being a define either. just roll own.
05:45.34 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32684 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (edsol.c mged.h): dead code cleanup
06:18.58 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32685 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: ws
06:24.37 Ralith ws?
06:24.59 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32686 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: quell warnings and fix a bug with case-insensitive matching (it was always matching case-insensitive).
06:30.01 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32687 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
06:30.02 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: bob finished implementing a preliminary bot-stl exporter that dumps out bots as
06:30.02 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: stl data but without evaluating the csg booleans, solidity, normals, etc. this
06:30.02 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: is to help make export go much faster when the modeler doesn't care about the
06:30.02 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: geometric representation. this is *really* exceptionally bad for analysis
06:30.04 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: purposes unless you know exactly what you're doing and the implications; it's
06:30.06 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: fine for rendering/visualization purposes though. this addresses sf bug 2106032
06:49.08 brlcad ~ws
06:49.11 ibot methinks ws is short for workstation. White Space, or the country code for Western Samoa
07:00.55 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32691 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.h: bogus declaration. maybe that has something to do with the bizzare crash reported to the sf bug tracker [ 2043925 ] ERROR: NULL bn_tol pointer.
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11:24.11 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:25.53 mafm hello
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13:10.45 starseeker_ brlcad: Whoops. Sorry you had to mess with the ccblank/isblank stuff
13:42.19 starseeker_ is really liking doclifter :-)
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14:14.30 starseeker_ scowls at xchat
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14:36.52 starseeker_ grr
15:27.29 brlcad catches th' outgoing tide, arrr!
15:27.50 brlcad mornin' mafm
15:29.33 mafm hello brlcad
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16:36.00 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32692 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: emphasize some of the more significant warnings by sleeping longer
16:42.12 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32693 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
16:42.12 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: automatically search /usr/X11 for X11 components since AC_PATH_XTRA on Mac OS X
16:42.12 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 10.5 (where R7 is now used) isn't set up to search there yet. this should fix
16:42.12 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: the 10.5 mac build that was previously failing in Tk because X11 was getting
16:42.12 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: disabled when it couldn't find libXi.
16:53.09 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32694 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declarations for wdb_search_cmd and wdb_stub_cmd.
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19:22.11 mafm well, I'm going home
19:22.39 mafm I'm gonna be mostly unreachable for a week, going to a congress in Turkey
19:22.45 mafm be happy!
19:27.53 brlcad cya mafm, have a great weekend!
19:28.52 mafm thanks :)
20:20.53 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32695 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
20:20.53 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: trying to make the solver start looking at the current values and start
20:20.53 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: iteration rather than from the minimum value possible, so as to facilitate
20:20.53 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: implicit constraint checks during rt_prep for instance which might be satisfying
20:20.54 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: the constraints already (nonfunctional), code cleanup
20:29.16 ``Erik shiver me timbers o.O
20:34.20 prasad_1 arrrrrrrrr
21:19.33 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32696 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: add load format defs
21:20.22 CIA-4 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32697 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load.c: stub out the various load formats

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