| 00:56.56 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 01:38.57 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
| 02:09.27 | brlcad | howdy pacman87 |
| 02:09.42 | brlcad | starseeker: it doesn't fully pass but nice work fixing the hard problems :) |
| 02:09.43 | pacman87 | hi |
| 02:10.01 | brlcad | looks like everything related to tkhtml3 is passing now, though, so life is good |
| 02:19.28 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 02:21.33 | brlcad | waves across the pool |
| 02:21.43 | ``Erik_ | *wave* |
| 02:21.54 | ``Erik_ | knew I closed the blinds for a reason O.o |
| 02:25.22 | ``Erik_ | 1.75l, I pheer |
| 02:31.21 | brlcad | mmmm |
| 02:37.17 | starseeker | brlcad: What's still busted? |
| 02:40.14 | ``Erik_ | all of it, why'd you bust it up, dude? |
| 02:40.24 | brlcad | not busted, just a few loose ends |
| 02:40.39 | ``Erik_ | ponders walking to the front desk to inquire about orange juice |
| 02:40.52 | starseeker | how goes the other side of the country? |
| 02:50.02 | ``Erik_ | a little west |
| 03:03.13 | yukonbob | hello, cadhedas |
| 03:03.16 | yukonbob | *cadheads |
| 03:09.07 | ``Erik_ | huh, orange juice |
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| 03:25.22 | punkrockgirl | stop it, i'm jealous |
| 03:29.42 | ``Erik_ | of cadheads? O.o |
| 03:31.52 | punkrockgirl | of oj |
| 03:31.55 | punkrockgirl | and the stuff in it |
| 03:31.56 | punkrockgirl | :P |
| 03:36.19 | ``Erik_ | probably like $50 worth of crap heh, ~200 people, but most I imagine are shared rooms, so like, uh, ~5k on booze and nuts O.o crazy :D must be nice to have a massive expense account |
| 03:37.03 | ``Erik_ | way more on the hotel rooms, though :) heh |
| 03:37.20 | ``Erik_ | doesn't wana know the final cost of this summit |
| 03:46.10 | punkrockgirl | cool |
| 03:46.15 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=Ralith@216.162.199.202) | |
| 03:46.17 | punkrockgirl | i wanna go do something cool |
| 03:47.42 | ``Erik_ | meh, so go to a honeywell space camp or something |
| 03:47.46 | ``Erik_ | *duck* *run* |
| 03:48.04 | punkrockgirl | oh |
| 03:48.08 | punkrockgirl | heh |
| 03:48.12 | punkrockgirl | good point :( |
| 03:48.21 | punkrockgirl | i suck |
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| 04:27.10 | ``Erik_ | bleh |
| 04:30.47 | ``Erik_ | Patrick Warburton has a very distinct vocal style |
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| 16:57.16 | starseeker | begins to see why the g_qa units were local - libbu is length only in the unit department |
| 16:59.27 | starseeker | starts working on an expansion... |
| 16:59.42 | starseeker | this simply won't do... |
| 17:11.31 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33050 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c: |
| 17:11.31 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: Change the internal name of the unit table to reflect that it is length only - |
| 17:11.31 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: other tables will be added so the 'unspoken assumption' that everything is |
| 17:11.31 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: length will no longer hold. Can't do this (yet) for externally visible |
| 17:11.31 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: functions but at least internally it should help avoid confusion. |
| 17:39.11 | starseeker | brlcad: Where are we getting these conversion factors, by the way? They should be cited - correctness of these factors is a big deal because having to change them could invalidate who knows how many results. |
| 17:39.43 | starseeker | brlcad: In particular, I'm wondering about the conversion of grains to grams (although all should be audited) |
| 17:40.25 | starseeker | knows there are standards the officially define these units and NIST has some useful literature as well |
| 17:41.09 | ``Erik_ | hrm, when I got to my hotel room, there was a 1.75l bottle of vodka, a six pack of beer, and a dude showed up with cold orange juice... assuming brlcad received the same ... "gift basket", I'm rather surprised he's not floating face down in the pool right now, but unsurprised he's not responding... :D |
| 17:41.30 | starseeker | creating a proper units and dimensions package for a CAS system actually was what interested me in Axiom instead of Maxima, and is still one of my primary long term goals for CAS, so I'm probably a bit "geeky" on this topic... |
| 17:41.44 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 17:42.02 | ``Erik_ | I know our distance measurement, by default, is mm, and we like kg |
| 17:42.14 | starseeker | yes, but grams is the default in g_qa |
| 17:42.21 | starseeker | kg is actually the SI standard |
| 17:42.21 | ``Erik_ | volumes are usually internally kept as cubic mm |
| 17:42.28 | starseeker | right |
| 17:42.50 | ``Erik_ | the in/mm conversion goes back to the early 80's I believe |
| 17:42.52 | starseeker | the pivot unit isn't so critical - it's the definitions of other units in terms of that pivot unit that become critical |
| 17:43.27 | ``Erik_ | old s2 folk like to think of pixels as 4"x4" projections, new ones like to see 100mmX100mm projections |
| 17:43.33 | starseeker | can't believe his single biggest interest in the CAS world has suddenly become job related |
| 17:44.22 | ``Erik_ | personally, I'd default holding formats to strict SI (despite the frenchness) and use a library (there are plenty) for conversions |
| 17:44.24 | ``Erik_ | *shrug* |
| 17:44.46 | starseeker | erm - libbu has a conversion routine |
| 17:44.59 | starseeker | hadn't considered ripping out the whole thing and replacing with an external lib |
| 17:46.07 | ``Erik_ | what's the java one the m3 guys are using? it had a few aspects where I went "holy crap... that's important", but they threw those away |
| 17:46.31 | ``Erik_ | like it carried translation error with the value, and propogated it correctly through the math |
| 17:46.41 | starseeker | Java Units of measure? |
| 17:46.53 | starseeker | It's LGPL at least |
| 17:46.55 | ``Erik_ | no, it was something stupid |
| 17:47.02 | ``Erik_ | unless something stupid renamed itself to that |
| 17:47.06 | starseeker | grumbles at all the C ones being GPL |
| 17:47.18 | ``Erik_ | carrying error with computation was zomfg holy crap awesome, I thought, but it was thrown away |
| 17:47.25 | starseeker | that is impressive |
| 17:47.28 | ``Erik_ | or, deviance, rather |
| 17:47.45 | ``Erik_ | big performance hit, but *shrug* neglegible compared to other performance issues |
| 17:47.48 | starseeker | correct handling of that issue is very nearly a research topic |
| 17:48.03 | ``Erik_ | pessemistic bounding, not perfect bounding |
| 17:48.15 | ``Erik_ | like jscience or something |
| 17:48.17 | ``Erik_ | this is bugging me |
| 17:48.21 | starseeker | Ooo, a BSD licensed one |
| 17:49.30 | ``Erik_ | are you in the office? |
| 17:49.30 | starseeker | yep |
| 17:49.30 | ``Erik_ | jra knows the grim details of what I'm talking about |
| 17:49.47 | ``Erik_ | I'd like to remember the naem of it, but I can't shell into one of those machines and do not carry a co with me :( |
| 17:52.30 | starseeker | you had it - jscience |
| 17:52.53 | ``Erik_ | aight, it carries ranges of values instead of "a value" |
| 17:53.16 | ``Erik_ | for high energy physics, that seems zomfg critical to me |
| 17:55.06 | starseeker | Hmm - units.sourceforge.net |
| 17:56.54 | starseeker | pity NIST doesn't have their own conversion library |
| 17:57.07 | ``Erik_ | I bet they do, somewhere |
| 17:57.52 | ``Erik_ | I ran across a trivial scheme conversion library that was more flexible than the unix "units" program, neat shizzlenitz |
| 17:58.36 | ``Erik_ | (one thing that drives me up the wall with 'units', I can't convert between C and F, or F and K... temperature measurement is valid, damnit!) |
| 17:59.43 | starseeker | indeed |
| 18:00.31 | starseeker | ``Erik: Do you think it would be worth it to hook in an external units conversion library? |
| 18:00.40 | starseeker | Or, more to the point, would brlcad think so? |
| 18:00.59 | ``Erik_ | I might be a little excessive on that one, though... for mebbe 5 years, I ran a program that scraped temperature data on many zip codes hourly to plot, and I used to convert all measurements to kelvin when I was homebrewing :) |
| 18:01.06 | ``Erik_ | um, depends on the size of it |
| 18:01.30 | ``Erik_ | obviously, it's not something you'd expect in libc, so brlcad will push for inclusion in src/other/ |
| 18:01.50 | ``Erik_ | and I'll push for minimizing size and inode count :D so somewhere will be a balance |
| 18:02.43 | starseeker | Hmm, Mayo Foundation - is that related to the mayo clinic folks I wonder? |
| 18:03.40 | starseeker | Hmm, his email was at one point at the mayo clinic |
| 18:03.43 | starseeker | interesting |
| 18:06.36 | starseeker | huh - darned if it doesn't provide a TCL units interface |
| 18:07.00 | starseeker | ok, ok... |
| 18:07.06 | starseeker | downloads to check out |
| 18:07.15 | starseeker | let's see how big it is |
| 18:10.50 | starseeker | ``Erik: More important even than the size though - this would be a major expansion and even a bit of reworking of how BRL-CAD deals with units. Definitely an improvement, but also definitely a change - does anybody outside of BRL-CAD use our current unit functionality? |
| 18:12.51 | starseeker | ``Erik: size of an uncompressed tar is 510KB |
| 18:14.31 | starseeker | using TEAfor building |
| 18:14.41 | starseeker | er TEA for |
| 18:20.59 | starseeker | hmm, pity - it's tcl doesn't call the c side |
| 18:37.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-82-179.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:22.26 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-82-179.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:27.15 | brlcad | starseeker: check the commit log on the file, they may be cited there |
| 20:36.55 | brlcad | conversion lib is fine, though our conversion needs are very trivial at this point so I'd be hesitant for using a dep until there was some feature added |
| 20:37.23 | brlcad | cleaning up g_qa by itself would be pretty marginal (as it wouldn't really change, it'd just get rid of the table) |
| 20:40.12 | *** join/#brlcad cad64 (n=4e5699cd@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:47.30 | brlcad | does not understand starseeker's comment to 1677383 |
| 20:47.54 | starseeker | brlcad: um, sorry. |
| 20:47.56 | starseeker | rereads |
| 20:48.45 | starseeker | Lee implemented dbfindempty as a tcl command |
| 20:48.55 | starseeker | should it be integrated into MGED? |
| 20:50.01 | starseeker | if not, dwayne seems to be satisifed. In addition, the search command can also find totally empty combinations (although it doesn't have the dbfindempty ability to find combs with only 1 or only 2 nodes) |
| 20:50.55 | starseeker | I guess I'm wondering what needs to happen that hasn't already happened to be able to close that request |
| 20:53.08 | starseeker | brlcad: re - unit conversions; No problem with waiting, what I can do for now is move the g_qa tables into libbu, add a couple more general calls to access them (that will also be able to pass requests to a more general library behind the hood if we want to do that in the future) |
| 20:53.29 | starseeker | and then tweak g_qa to use the new libbu calls instead of its internal code |
| 20:58.17 | brlcad | starseeker: the trackers are totally your domain, so you can decide if it's sufficient, rejectable, inadequate, etc |
| 20:58.50 | starseeker | OK. I just didn't know if there was some reason dbfindempty wasn't in MGED - a.k.a Lee not wanting it in |
| 20:58.53 | brlcad | I think search completely superceeds a "dbfindempty" command and would reject that patch |
| 20:59.12 | brlcad | nah, it was probably just level of effort |
| 21:00.32 | brlcad | it technically probably belongs as a patch submission once the attachments were added, but pettty at this point since he's also a dev also acting like a user |
| 21:00.44 | starseeker | Looking at the tcl, there is an option to match if the number of elements in a comb matchs a number - is that useful enough to be worth adding to search? |
| 21:01.41 | starseeker | doesn't think it belongs in an empty option - maybe empty could be replaced by a "number of nodes in comb" and "number of nodes in subtree" sort of system... |
| 21:01.41 | brlcad | that would have been a way to generalize your -empty option |
| 21:02.00 | brlcad | exactly |
| 21:02.41 | starseeker | vim's up the search code and hopes he doesn't need yet another tree walker... |
| 21:03.59 | starseeker | must protest the g_qa code grouping mass and weight - that's dimensionally flat out wrong |
| 21:04.20 | brlcad | fix it! |
| 21:04.34 | starseeker | OK :-) |
| 21:04.40 | ``Erik_ | is it fixed yet? |
| 21:04.45 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33051 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/avs.c: make initializaiton order match declaration order |
| 21:04.51 | starseeker | hopes he isn't breaking someone's analysis code... |
| 21:05.00 | ``Erik_ | crosses his arms and taps his foot |
| 21:05.02 | ``Erik_ | why isn't it fixed yet? |
| 21:05.10 | starseeker | finite typing speed |
| 21:05.38 | ``Erik_ | signs starseeker up for the neural jack surgury |
| 21:06.11 | ``Erik_ | (just remember... never EVER core dump while you're jacked in) |
| 21:07.16 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33052 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: ws |
| 21:08.56 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33053 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: |
| 21:08.56 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: fix an initialization bug in RT_INIT_DB_INTERNAL that was causing a crash if you |
| 21:08.56 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: initialized a rt_db_internal, never use it, but then try to release it. the |
| 21:08.56 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: idb_meth wasn't being initialized causing the callback to crash on randomly |
| 21:08.56 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: initialized values that were not a valid callback. |
| 21:12.27 | starseeker | How's the GSOC thing going? |
| 21:12.48 | brlcad | doesn't really start until tomorrow, dinner tonight |
| 21:14.25 | ``Erik_ | if it was goin', do ya think we'd be talkin' here? :D |
| 21:16.44 | starseeker | fair enough |
| 21:17.01 | starseeker | brlcad: What's a good "clean" way to get a count on the number of nodes in a combination? |
| 21:18.08 | starseeker | do we have a pre-defined function? |
| 21:18.42 | brlcad | mm, that just counts? doubt it but I think you can just walk over a bu_list and count if you have a COMB |
| 21:21.58 | ``Erik_ | that smells like a loaded question |
| 21:22.07 | ``Erik_ | (similar to a loaded diaper, but scarier) |
| 21:22.26 | ``Erik_ | is a comb the compacted human variant, or the binary internal variant? |
| 21:22.58 | starseeker | what? |
| 21:23.06 | ``Erik_ | last I checked, a simple union comb of 4 primitives is at least 7 nodes |
| 21:23.28 | ``Erik_ | if you include both terminal and nonterminal |
| 21:24.24 | ``Erik_ | include/raytrace.h around line 1073 is the gorey detail bit |
| 21:25.30 | ``Erik_ | count(union(n)) >= n*log_{2}n where n is the number of primitives, or something |
| 21:25.54 | starseeker | Oh, I get was Lee was up to - since it's a binary tree you can only have 0, 1 or 2 children per the data structure |
| 21:26.00 | brlcad | ged_list_children() |
| 21:26.25 | starseeker | would expect something else from a node count on a geometry tree |
| 21:26.30 | brlcad | ah, so there is already: db_tree_nleaves |
| 21:26.36 | brlcad | (librt) |
| 21:26.49 | ``Erik_ | internel representation is a simple binary tree, but it's exposed as an n-ary tree to the user :/ |
| 21:27.02 | brlcad | that's why the docs need to be in the freaking headers so I can find that shtuff easier |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | brlcad: Thank you for finding it! |
| 21:27.44 | ``Erik_ | so just terminal nodes, then :D |
| 21:27.45 | starseeker | wouuld have felt so dumb writing his own... |
| 21:28.37 | starseeker | erm, this one stops at regions though.. |
| 21:28.41 | starseeker | crud |
| 21:28.43 | ``Erik_ | thinks we have too many already, someone needs to generisize and collapse existing functions and put in minor specialization stubs for compatability :/ |
| 21:29.11 | brlcad | it's actually an acyclic graph that can be munged to binary or non-binary depending on where in the api |
| 21:29.28 | ``Erik_ | we need cl loop equivelant for our trees :D |
| 21:29.45 | ``Erik_ | and yes, my spelling sucks. |
| 21:29.52 | ``Erik_ | equivalent |
| 21:29.55 | starseeker | wonders if the time has come to hit the tree walkers |
| 21:30.31 | ``Erik_ | how is richards procdb coming? |
| 21:30.59 | starseeker | still early days |
| 21:31.08 | ``Erik_ | hm |
| 21:32.12 | ``Erik_ | <-- tried to get him to consider an easier procdb to cut his teeth on, but he's in a 'marching orders' mentality :/ |
| 21:32.34 | starseeker | from whom? me or brlcad? |
| 21:32.36 | brlcad | mm, daniel and jeff are here |
| 21:32.59 | ``Erik_ | 4 hours until the dinner thing |
| 21:33.12 | brlcad | er, isn't it in an hour? |
| 21:33.22 | brlcad | oh craptastic.. I'm looking at edt time |
| 21:33.24 | ``Erik_ | um, no? 1830 pst |
| 21:33.25 | brlcad | sweet |
| 21:33.30 | ``Erik_ | and it's 1433 |
| 21:33.39 | brlcad | yeah, my clock says 1734 |
| 21:33.47 | brlcad | thought it felt damn early :) |
| 21:33.48 | starseeker | heh |
| 21:34.16 | brlcad | starseeker: you hook ed up? |
| 21:34.19 | ``Erik_ | I updated my laptops clock, so'z I have both pst and est on my screen (courtesy BX, a *REAL* irc client, unlike that wussy irssi crap) |
| 21:34.20 | brlcad | (lists) |
| 21:34.27 | starseeker | brlcad: yep |
| 21:34.33 | starseeker | he's on dev and commits |
| 21:34.38 | brlcad | saw |
| 21:34.45 | brlcad | not news? |
| 21:34.48 | starseeker | probably should get him on user and news too |
| 21:34.57 | ``Erik_ | so we can't badmouth him in our commit -m '' messages anymore? :( |
| 21:35.13 | starseeker | ``Erik_:depends on if he reads 'em or not |
| 21:35.55 | brlcad | got 2/3rds of the points primitive update working on the plane.. should .. finish |
| 21:36.18 | ``Erik_ | so much for napping before the dinner? |
| 21:38.27 | ``Erik_ | fer some reason, when ya said that dawn and kurt/kirk/whatever were downstairs, I somehow thought they were bz people :D heh |
| 21:39.26 | brlcad | donna and kirk |
| 21:39.31 | brlcad | they are bz people |
| 21:39.51 | ``Erik_ | I was asking how the bzflag gsoc went when you were showering heh :D </doof> |
| 21:40.08 | ``Erik_ | nice folk, dealing with pretty interesting stuff |
| 21:40.22 | brlcad | ah, yeah -- not gsocers |
| 21:41.04 | brlcad | it's really bad that my brain has shifted context.. i need to study up on what all we did for both so I can actually hold a f'ing conversation about it |
| 21:41.15 | brlcad | since this is sorta requisite or at least really useful this weekend |
| 21:41.45 | ``Erik_ | firing braincells are the critical aspect, other people can remember the history for ya :D you weren't a mentor per se |
| 21:43.37 | starseeker | brlcad: Is OP_REGION a unary operator? |
| 21:44.08 | starseeker | or rather, does its presence indicate a left subtree? |
| 21:45.10 | brlcad | ``Erik_: naw, it's still my job to know what everyone did, just not the details |
| 21:45.15 | ``Erik_ | ah, cliff, I figured out what was confusing me with the macro thing. The example code had a defun with soft quoting that was called from the macro. |
| 21:45.28 | brlcad | at least should be able to say what folks were working on what |
| 21:45.32 | ``Erik_ | we did things. And stuff. And it was good. |
| 21:45.40 | starseeker | ``Erik_: nicely done |
| 21:45.41 | ``Erik_ | then, on the 7th week, we rested. |
| 21:45.42 | brlcad | starseeker: dunno really, use the source luke :) |
| 21:45.51 | starseeker | brlcad: OK :-) |
| 21:45.59 | starseeker | just checking for a shortcut |
| 21:46.33 | ``Erik_ | (would've been the 7th day, but we created slashdot, collegehumor, and icanhascheezburger on the first day. Woops.) |
| 21:46.56 | starseeker | assumed those were the work of "somone else" |
| 21:47.19 | ``Erik_ | geekisis 10:12 |
| 21:47.40 | ``Erik_ | And it was goodish. Ramen. |
| 21:48.00 | starseeker | The ed 1.0 version or the Church of Emacs revival edition? |
| 21:49.14 | ``Erik_ | just random blabbering, now with extra blasphemy |
| 21:49.14 | brlcad | ``Erik_: oh, I found out why he attacked -- said it was just to generate debris for a newb he was trying to help, otherwise that he woulda been nuts to attack a 16 CC without levis |
| 21:49.14 | ``Erik_ | heh, so gank his newb friend :D fighters do an ugly job on cyclers |
| 21:49.46 | ``Erik_ | use astroempiresextras to time your fighter pops to exist at like :28 or :29, jack his cyclers as hard as you can just before the tick |
| 21:50.09 | ``Erik_ | a recycler needs 3 ticks to pay for itself |
| 21:50.39 | brlcad | I thought about it .. his friend only has 25 cyclers :) |
| 21:50.56 | brlcad | lvl 13 |
| 21:50.57 | ``Erik_ | you can't kill the tiger, so try to taste like shit :D |
| 21:51.24 | ``Erik_ | (is that sun tzu? :D ) |
| 21:52.47 | brlcad | starseeker: another way to find stuff .. think of an mged command that does what you're thinking and look what it does |
| 21:55.31 | starseeker | nods |
| 21:56.22 | starseeker | Lee used llength in his tcl command, but I'm being more stubborn - I want to count the way a BRL-CAD user would expect |
| 22:01.06 | ``Erik_ | notes that one must take every commands implementation with a grain of salt... it may be a crude hack instead of "right" |
| 22:11.20 | *** join/#brlcad smurfette (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) | |
| 22:12.43 | ``Erik_ | dude, that restaurant is not walking distance |
| 22:12.59 | ``Erik_ | it's way up by moffett |
| 22:13.41 | ``Erik_ | 6.1 miles as the google flies |
| 22:16.28 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33054 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c: Add in two of g_qa's unit tables. Need to add a 3rd for weights, which are not the same as mass |
| 22:17.34 | ``Erik_ | if you're gonna be like that, only record mass and then record gravity in the scene to compute weight O.o :> |
| 22:17.56 | ``Erik_ | many tools use mass and weight interchangably (incorrect, but 'close enough' for ground vehicles) |
| 22:17.56 | starseeker | not a bad idea |
| 22:18.11 | ``Erik_ | naturally, you should talk about point gravity, so you can compute tidal force |
| 22:18.12 | ``Erik_ | *cough* |
| 22:18.34 | ``Erik_ | full integral gravity would be a bit excessive, though :D |
| 22:18.36 | starseeker | refuses to use mass and weight interchangably |
| 22:18.43 | starseeker | heh |
| 22:18.56 | ``Erik_ | the customer does it, and we like to get paychecks at the end of the day :( |
| 22:18.57 | brlcad | starseeker: llength is a tcl command .. he's counting the list of something -- you'd have to look at what he used to get the list he was counting |
| 22:19.13 | brlcad | ``Erik_: it is? okay |
| 22:19.15 | starseeker | nods |
| 22:19.48 | starseeker | ``Erik_: where do they do it? |
| 22:19.49 | ``Erik_ | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=910+E+Fremont+Ave,+Sunnyvale,+CA+94087+(Wild+Palms+Hotel)&daddr=174+castro+st&hl=en&geocode=CcOzhSoacpGzFfnvOQIdyTi6-CFKCwVYHFXddA%3B&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=37.380798,-122.046089&sspn=0.052925,0.105228&ie=UTF8&ll=37.373022,-122.061195&spn=0.105861,0.210457&z=13 |
| 22:20.35 | ``Erik_ | the analysts? just look at rtweight |
| 22:21.43 | ``Erik_ | stuff like http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god might change that, though |
| 22:22.27 | smurfette | http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/areyoulivinginaconstitutionfreezone.html |
| 22:22.49 | starseeker | hunts around for rtweight |
| 22:23.14 | ``Erik_ | was on slashdot earlier, punker |
| 22:23.39 | starseeker | ``Erik_: Whether they're doing it or not it's wrong - if they don't care it shouldn't be too hard to make it "correct" - just call everything a weight and be done with it |
| 22:23.47 | smurfette | bah, im always late to find out anything |
| 22:24.18 | ``Erik_ | when delta(gravity) matters, it becomes... well, important |
| 22:24.20 | starseeker | ``Erik_: it's a 101 basic unit mistake no one should be making |
| 22:24.48 | starseeker | sure |
| 22:25.01 | starseeker | my point exactly - it's worth doing right |
| 22:25.10 | starseeker | and there is a strong case for that |
| 22:25.37 | ``Erik_ | well, grok: analysts demanded a piece of software to automate a large portion of their job. New analysts learned how to use the software, but not the fundamentals. Recurse a few times. Now we have a batch of analysts completely unequiped to deal with the nitty gritty of the model and a black box of magic software. |
| 22:25.46 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): Start on some more generalized functionality related to number of nodes present in combinations and subtrees. Once completed, this will fully replace the functionality in the proposed dbfindempty tcl command |
| 22:26.02 | brlcad | howdy smurfette |
| 22:26.09 | ``Erik_ | since it's just a magic black box that you push the 'go' button on, the quality of the minds operating it has deteriorated to essentially assembly line standards. |
| 22:26.21 | starseeker | ``Erik_: so won't they listen to us when we explain why it needs to be done correctly? |
| 22:26.38 | starseeker | since we're " |
| 22:26.41 | starseeker | mechanics" |
| 22:26.47 | ``Erik_ | I imagine most will listen, and a couple might even understand :) |
| 22:27.22 | starseeker | smurfette: Is that everyone's favorite DJ? |
| 22:27.35 | ``Erik_ | but yes, exactly, we're just greasy mechanics, all they know is which pedal to push to make it go faster and which to make it stop. |
| 22:27.47 | brlcad | starseeker: changing everythign to weight .. or everthing to mass ? |
| 22:27.59 | brlcad | gots no problems with making it "right" |
| 22:28.00 | starseeker | brlcad: Doing it "right" |
| 22:28.15 | starseeker | brlcad: Oh, good :-) |
| 22:28.17 | ``Erik_ | thinks it should all be mass, and rtweight should have a gravity parm |
| 22:28.27 | brlcad | yeah, that's what I was thinking |
| 22:28.33 | ``Erik_ | which defaults to, oh, say, 9.82 m/s^2 or something |
| 22:28.54 | starseeker | ``Erik_: Oh, that's a given. I was worried about customer code |
| 22:29.41 | ``Erik_ | if you're going to monkey with default behavior, you might want to talk to geoff... personally, I'd try to keep russ out of it |
| 22:30.02 | starseeker | is prepared to be fairly stubborn about refusing to do it "wrong" in BRL-CAD just to make someone else's tool happy - they need to fix their tool too |
| 22:30.05 | starseeker | ok |
| 22:30.08 | ``Erik_ | he's a nice guy, but insanely resisant to change |
| 22:30.44 | starseeker | errors like this tend to propagate and cause problems down the road |
| 22:31.19 | ``Erik_ | especially once you bring things like orbital platforms into the picture :D |
| 22:31.47 | starseeker | would be very very red-faced if he were an analyst and didn't have his units straight |
| 22:32.13 | ``Erik_ | and even ground crap has been plagued by quirks like coriolis effects for quite a while |
| 22:32.38 | brlcad | everyone just uses it as mass that I'm aware of |
| 22:32.39 | starseeker | really? cool |
| 22:33.31 | brlcad | ``Erik_: 6:15 lobby to head to thai |
| 22:33.38 | brlcad | if you want to drive with |
| 22:33.44 | brlcad | otherwise see ya there |
| 22:34.22 | starseeker | needs to hit the road... getting very quiet around here |
| 22:34.41 | ``Erik_ | aight |
| 22:35.49 | *** join/#brlcad novakyu (n=novakyu@visitor2.Berkeley.EDU) | |
| 22:36.08 | ``Erik_ | damn, this place is crawling with computer nerds |
| 22:36.35 | Ralith | what a strange thing that is. |
| 22:36.38 | Ralith | ^^ |
| 22:36.42 | brlcad | slow'n down ma' net bastages |
| 22:37.01 | ``Erik_ | I think this entire hotel was booked for this event |
| 22:37.43 | ``Erik_ | what kinda scotch did they gift you, brlcad? should I swing by for a sample? ;) |
| 22:37.59 | brlcad | starseeker:erm, why not just db_count_tree_leaves(tp)? |
| 22:39.07 | brlcad | ``Erik_: aberlour 16yr |
| 22:39.24 | ``Erik_ | ok, I need to swing by for a sample in the next day or two. |
| 22:39.29 | brlcad | yup |
| 22:39.30 | ``Erik_ | stop guzzling it. |
| 22:39.31 | ``Erik_ | :D |
| 22:39.35 | brlcad | i'll bring it to the party |
| 22:39.42 | ``Erik_ | which? |
| 22:40.00 | brlcad | the main one, sat |
| 22:40.12 | ``Erik_ | oh, the pizza thing? |
| 22:40.30 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:40.34 | ``Erik_ | coo |
| 22:40.38 | *** part/#brlcad novakyu (n=novakyu@visitor2.Berkeley.EDU) | |
| 22:41.18 | ``Erik_ | open source software development, where everyone's a drunk! wee! heh |
| 22:41.55 | ``Erik_ | <google> these nerds need all the social lube we can afford |
| 22:41.56 | ``Erik_ | O.O |
| 22:46.59 | CIA-24 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33056 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/nirt/en/: ignore nirt.html |
| 22:57.43 | *** join/#brlcad eriksgirl (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) | |
| 23:01.16 | *** join/#brlcad smurfette (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 23:31.40 | eriksgirl | um werid |
| 23:47.48 | ``Erik_ | yes, yes you are |
| 23:47.53 | ``Erik_ | you are very werid |