IRC log for #brlcad on 20081203

00:01.43 *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
01:22.20 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
01:22.52 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/aYKzB432.html <----- this fixed myy libcursor problem :)
01:26.04 brlcad IriX64: *what* fixed your libcursor problem?
01:26.18 IriX64 the -L stuff i added
01:26.43 IriX64 might not be what you and your people want but its a good patch
01:28.18 brlcad then you should just say that instead of pastebinning the entire file without any hint as to what you did or why you did it
01:28.36 IriX64 forgive, i was ecited
01:28.37 brlcad otherwise you're just wasting people's time
01:28.41 IriX64 excited too
01:29.05 brlcad well, you were so excited that the fix isn't even in the link that you pasted
01:29.36 brlcad more case in point towards why you should just share the minimum when you think you have to "fix" something
01:30.05 IriX64 okay
01:30.08 brlcad i highly doubt that "-L/${top_builddir}/src/o" fixed anything
01:30.40 *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:31.02 IriX64 thats supposed to read -L${top_builddir}/src/other/libtermlib -llibtermlib
01:31.35 brlcad I see you're still making random edits too -- TERMLIB_LIBS isn't defined anywhere and the -L you needed should have come from CURSOR_LIBS
01:32.12 brlcad so you broke it and fixed it, congrats
01:32.47 IriX64 well i am trying
01:33.32 ``Erik diffs
01:33.38 ``Erik we like diffs, not files
01:33.56 IriX64 never played with diff ``Erik
01:34.01 ``Erik well, start
01:34.06 ``Erik svn diff
01:34.08 ``Erik diff -u
01:34.14 IriX64 where do they be sent to?
01:34.15 brlcad we have had this talk before -- there are more constructive ways you could/should contribute
01:34.18 IriX64 never mind
01:34.33 IriX64 got it
01:34.52 ``Erik if you just dump an entire file into a url, we'll probably ignore it
01:34.58 ``Erik be succint, minimal
01:35.08 ``Erik diff is a good way to do that
01:35.18 IriX64 ill practice it
01:35.24 IriX64 err study it first
01:35.33 ``Erik in the unix world, diff and patch are the yin and the yang
01:35.40 IriX64 ha ok
01:36.05 IriX64 ill clean up my act
01:36.16 ``Erik if you need help with those, let us know, I knwo I'd be willing to spend some time, but grok that it's critical, aight? :)
01:36.30 IriX64 right :)
01:36.55 ``Erik brlcad, I had something I wanted to talk to you about, btu I forgot
01:36.58 ``Erik like a jr hacker, uh
01:37.00 ``Erik ohyeah
01:37.06 ``Erik version on mged
01:37.18 brlcad que?
01:37.26 ``Erik is that ok? can a jr hacker implement a -v on mged?
01:37.31 brlcad oh
01:37.44 ``Erik since mged is our primary binary exposure for most folk
01:37.45 brlcad sure
01:38.10 ``Erik and I coulda hacked it out in under an hour, but I feel like it'd be a valuable lesson to a new developer
01:38.32 brlcad heh, "under an hour"? I'd hope so..
01:38.44 ``Erik yeah, well, 5 minutes sounded arrogant in my head
01:40.15 brlcad case 'v': bu_log("%s\n", brlcad_ident("MGED R|_|L3Z! lol.")); break;
01:41.38 brlcad so who they be?
01:41.50 ``Erik well, but do we want to follow the rt example of including all dependant libraries?
01:42.21 ``Erik I think maybe irix would be happy doing a real code submission opposed to build weirdness
01:42.33 brlcad doesn't matter to me, so long as the version isn't hard-coded into a source file
01:44.24 brlcad it does already set the version to the 'version' variable iirc
01:44.41 ``Erik there is no -V or -v option, though
01:44.59 brlcad yeah, mged -c test.g set version
01:45.35 ``Erik I did an "mged -v" expecting to see "7.13.0", and it did not do that
01:46.11 ``Erik given that 99% of users will assume 'mged' is "THE BINARY", ... yeah
01:46.18 ``Erik know what I mean, vern?
01:48.03 brlcad sure
01:48.10 brlcad make sense
01:48.59 brlcad only thing worth noting, though, is I don't think we have a single command that uses -v for version info .. the handful that use it treat is as a verbosity flag
01:49.11 brlcad not reason to not do it, but just a sideline
01:49.15 ``Erik hrm, would -V be better?
01:50.10 ``Erik I was recently disappointed with how poor our versioning system was, when it noted, it did it well... but it was hard to invoke
01:50.39 brlcad verbose should probably be -V, then version on -v
01:50.44 brlcad along with long opts
01:50.52 ``Erik we don't do long opts, do we?
01:50.54 brlcad but that's a task for another day/time/person/place
01:52.42 brlcad still have to implement bu_getopt_long
01:52.57 ``Erik fightes the portability issue heh
02:02.22 ``Erik fbed requires curses? has bob handled this?
02:02.51 *** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
02:17.44 *** join/#brlcad gentoo_iron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
02:18.10 ``Erik gentoo is for ricers
02:23.09 brlcad fbed hasn't been ported
02:23.22 brlcad none of the termio/curses apps
02:41.47 IriX64 whats wrong with the Help->about window in the gui ?
02:42.55 IriX64 or reading the freaking documentation and see what version you're *trying to use :)
02:43.16 brlcad nothing, that's just a different feature
02:43.31 brlcad what's wrong with doing cad with pen and paper? .. nothing.
02:43.49 brlcad just some expect things in different ways, -v for versioning being one of them
02:43.54 IriX64 mged --about
02:45.51 brlcad we go for it
02:46.01 IriX64 :)
02:46.14 brlcad that's no less work than -v
02:46.25 IriX64 could be easier actually
02:47.02 brlcad nope
02:47.13 IriX64 there currently are no -- switches on mged tho
02:47.26 brlcad which is exactly why I said nope
02:47.31 brlcad there's a reason for that
02:47.32 IriX64 ah
02:49.34 IriX64 hahh libcursor.dll.a
02:52.46 IriX64 where do my diffs go when i send them tho, would hate to bugger anybodys work but my own.
02:56.32 brlcad depends entirely what you are diffing
02:56.35 brlcad and why
02:57.00 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/VDCeHq87.html <---- you expect me to learn all this in a day :)
02:57.01 brlcad pastebin to see if they're useful, then someone can review
02:57.19 brlcad diffs shouldn't be quick fixes -- they should be proper mods that work for everyone
02:57.30 IriX64 ahh ok but still if thats your code tree, i could screw up really bad
03:01.50 brlcad it doesn't magically get applied
03:01.59 brlcad it's applied after being reviewed
03:02.17 brlcad just don't wast folks time with patches you *know* can't be applied
03:02.27 IriX64 so its just a storage space with no chance of buggering anybody?
03:03.25 IriX64 ill try to learn how to use, can i practice or is there a url i can practice on?
03:04.09 Ralith practice what?
03:04.17 IriX64 using diff
03:04.32 Ralith diff is a program you use on your computer to get a computer-readable list of changes
03:04.46 IriX64 i readily admit i know sfa about it
03:04.51 Ralith if you're using svn
03:04.52 Ralith which you are
03:05.05 Ralith just go to the brl-cad root dir and do svn diff > somefile.diff
03:05.23 brlcad IriX64: no, you're not expected to learn it all in a day .. but just because the tool has a lot of options doesn't mean you need them all either
03:05.43 brlcad I highly doubt you know all of the options to bash, yet you use it every day via cygwin
03:05.49 IriX64 thanks to both
03:05.52 brlcad follow this: http://www.kegel.com/academy/opensource.html
03:05.57 IriX64 true brlcad
03:06.38 IriX64 bookmarked, thanks i will peruse it
03:07.14 brlcad it'll take all of a half hour to read and follow at best, and should explain everything
03:07.23 IriX64 thanks
03:09.28 *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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05:31.35 starseeker ``Erik: "gentoo is for ricers" - them's fight'in words
05:31.45 Ralith true, though
05:31.46 Ralith :>
05:32.09 louipc yep
05:32.13 starseeker prefers "gentoo is for people who compile lots of random crap so obscure it has no package in any Linux distro"
05:32.41 starseeker Linux From Scratch is for ricers :-)
05:34.04 louipc well it's not so bad if you update rarely
05:34.24 starseeker What, gentoo?
05:34.30 louipc yea
05:34.56 starseeker updates every few days when he's staying "current", otherwise every few months
05:34.58 louipc or any source based distro really
05:35.58 louipc starseeker: you should try arch ;)
05:36.06 starseeker :-)
05:36.40 starseeker did use Debian for a while, then got tired of tracking down -dev add-ons to packages so he could compile obscure mathematical stuff
05:37.13 starseeker would probably consider Ubuntu today if he were starting over in distro choice
05:37.38 louipc headers are included in arch
05:37.45 starseeker Still, the gentoo forums are a truly awesome resource
05:38.23 louipc how's the wiki doing nowadays?
05:38.25 starseeker louipc: you use arch?
05:38.32 louipc yep
05:38.40 starseeker louipc: The gentoo wiki? good question
05:38.43 starseeker checks
05:38.54 louipc they were rebuilding it yeah?
05:39.24 starseeker yep
05:39.31 starseeker looks like they're still trying to
05:40.06 louipc cool
05:40.10 starseeker still thinks it's kind of unbelievable that their database had no backups and went down the crapper
05:40.31 louipc heh heh
05:40.39 louipc I'm not too surprised
05:41.48 louipc I thought they lost it because the company that was hosting them was locked out of the data centre
05:41.54 starseeker is worried that without the former pages as the core a "rewrite" will end up losing a lot
05:41.59 starseeker louipc: right
05:42.03 louipc they just didn't have off-site backups
05:42.21 starseeker which I find surprising for such a major company resource
05:42.26 starseeker er distro resource
05:42.31 louipc yea
05:42.41 Ralith how did that happen?
05:42.47 Ralith also how does something that major not get backed up?
05:43.08 louipc lack of resources?
05:43.32 starseeker 's best guess is it was either unofficial or "pseudo-ficial", and thus not part of the distribution's failsafe mechanisms for websites
05:44.08 louipc yea possibly
05:44.26 starseeker Even the Google cache or archive.org's copy would have been a place to start though, assuming they had made them
05:44.34 starseeker saw at least a few pages in Google cache
05:45.49 starseeker They seem to have opted for a complete redo, which is dangerous because it throws away all the momentum built up (plus people will have to either re-learn how to do stuff or dig up a copy of the old page as a starting point, both potentially time consuming
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07:47.33 *** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.129)
07:47.54 sporty starseeker: so?
07:48.19 sporty starseeker: was it yours mail box i've sent my email to?
07:48.59 sporty starseeker: SiriusSnickersMars@candy.com , right?
07:49.51 sporty or SeriuosSnickersMars@choc.cy
07:50.14 sporty ah i guess you sleep...
08:15.07 sporty starseeker: i need to know e.g. if i can use <pre></pre> tags in .xml
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08:24.00 sporty Can "em" command help me to save regions as shells of 3D-bodies?
08:24.35 Ralith sporty: shells of 3D bodies?
08:24.48 sporty Can i save pipe as a shell - what if i want to mesh it then and assign a thickness?
08:25.20 sporty Ralith: yes, exactly for FEM FEA - analizes. This feature exists in ANSYS.com
08:25.29 sporty Why do i need this?
08:25.49 Ralith you want to export a mesh?
08:25.59 Ralith trimesh, that is
08:26.01 sporty shells tremendously reduce CPU time needed for calculations
08:26.51 sporty Ralith: well, i can mesh it with another program as e.g. geuz.org/gmsh/ - i want to export this shells as e.g. IGES or Ideas or something
08:27.08 sporty trimesh ? I don't know this command
08:27.22 Ralith that is not a command
08:27.24 Ralith it is a noun
08:27.26 sporty ok, will see
08:27.35 Ralith so you want to export surfaces?
08:28.00 sporty Ralith: yes, well, as an option to all
08:28.04 Ralith there is a g-iges program which is not part of mged but is part of the greater brl-cad suite
08:28.14 sporty ok
08:28.19 Ralith I'm not sure how well it works or how to use it, but it probably does what you want.
08:28.32 sporty Ralith: and itlies in /usr/share/brlcad ??
08:28.46 Ralith that would depend on your installation
08:29.04 Ralith if you installed brl-cad to /usr/share/brlcad, the binary would be at /usr/share/brlcad/bin/g-iges
08:29.16 sporty ok, right
08:29.52 Ralith run it without arguments for help
08:29.55 sporty so how about to export the middle of the pipe's thickness as a shell? I need trimesh?
08:29.58 sporty ~trimesh
08:30.15 Ralith what do you mean by "the middle of the pipe's thickness"?
08:30.23 sporty ok, not right now - i will have checked this
08:31.20 sporty i meant its wall's thickness - i would like to export pipe in describing of a shell or as a mesh
08:31.40 sporty Ralith: ok, don't think about it now - i only study brlcad
08:34.13 Ralith If you've modeled a hollow pipe, my guess is that exporting surfaces will give you two concentric cylendrical surfaces, one for the inside, one for the outside.
08:44.46 sporty Ralith: ok... I mean another capability then. I need a "center" of the wall to create a surface and save it as still a "vector" graphics - or save it as a mesh (with relatively little characteristic length to prevent singularities in fem-analysis)
08:46.18 Ralith a center?
08:46.37 Ralith maybe you should just experiment with g-iges and see if it gets you what you need
08:46.46 Ralith I'm having trouble understanding you
08:47.17 sporty Ralith: a "middle" of the wall produces a shell of a hollow pipe, then i assign a thickness of the wall and have a pipe, made of shell finite elements.
08:48.21 sporty Ralith: yes, i have not tried g-iges yet. I will've tried it. But i'm trying me english human language then :)
08:48.25 sporty *my
08:50.14 Ralith I'm not really familiar with it, but I thought finite element analysis needed a mesh
08:54.35 sporty Ralith: it need a "smart" mesh to avoid faults - and saving "as shell" is smart - if you want to try relatively "rough" meshes and then more "accurate" ones. Or you might want a rough mesh at the centers (longitudinal) and accurate at the ends of a pipe.
08:56.12 sporty well, i just fill xml from mged_cmd_index.html - and wanted to know a bit more, so don't, so don't try to understand what's on my mind
08:58.36 sporty Ralith: do you know starseeker's email?
08:58.46 Ralith afraid not
08:58.49 Ralith it's probably not too hard to find
08:58.59 sporty i send letters - and folks telll me who i am
08:59.19 sporty Ralith: you mean Author's page?
08:59.22 Ralith check the sourceforge developers list; that might have a way to contact him
09:00.35 sporty my days' megabytes of internet equals one ise cream or just 0.3 usd... I have an agreement with mommy to stay far from sourceforge sites at a daylight :)
09:00.52 Ralith heh
09:01.03 Ralith price-per-mb does suck.
09:01.12 Ralith brl-cad can probably do what you need; it was made for analysis in something like that vein, after all.
09:01.22 sporty ...but i have a trick: java -jar $HOME/toonel.jar
09:01.22 Ralith I'm not the best reference on it, though
09:01.27 Ralith ?
09:01.40 sporty What ??
09:01.48 Ralith w/e
09:01.56 Ralith good luck contacting starseeker
09:01.57 sporty using proxy for internet
09:02.02 Ralith he'll probably be around later
09:02.03 sporty ok
09:02.20 sporty i know - but i will be offline
09:03.58 sporty sudo standupandgo --clean=flat -Right now
09:04.46 Ralith try starseeker@users.sourceforge.net
09:04.55 sporty ok
09:04.55 Ralith no idea if it'll get to him via that, but better than nothing
09:06.23 sporty Ralith: maybe you know it: Can i use <pre></pre> tags in xml?
09:06.42 Ralith honestly I have no idea
09:06.45 Ralith try it and see?
09:07.13 Ralith it depends a lot on what *kind* of xml (what you're doing with it), but even if you provided details I just don't know enough to tell you.
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09:08.37 sporty Ralith: i can not preview it on my local computer - se la we ;)
09:09.30 sporty xml files of enlarged command reference of brlcad
09:10.22 sporty i see it as text with tags, i can not "plug" openoffice to jre, i can not download too much from internet
09:11.14 Ralith sorry, can't help
09:13.01 sporty Ralith: why are you behind pc this time? it's probably night there where you are? Here where i am it is an end of a cold-cold day...
09:14.29 Ralith why not?
09:14.43 clock_ sporty: it's also pretty cold here
09:16.51 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
09:35.55 *** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.129)
09:36.14 sporty sudo cleancarpet -! -@ -# -$ -% now... oh my...
10:57.02 *** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.129)
11:07.26 sporty my new connection goes offline sometimes...
11:07.39 sporty starseeker: are you here right now?
11:17.46 sporty i've not used <pre></pre> tags, but there were random <para></para> as paragraphs...
11:19.36 sporty starseeker: edit few commands on rus as final variant with that fields <refentry id="...">
11:23.31 *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
11:26.13 sporty elite01: hello!
11:26.28 sporty elite01: is it a morning already?
11:26.47 elite01 sure
11:26.50 elite01 hi there :)
11:27.01 sporty and we have a dinner
11:27.01 elite01 12:27 local time
11:27.22 sporty ah... you're in Europe?
11:27.38 elite01 yeah
11:27.51 sporty Come on! you're in east europe, man!
11:28.06 sporty What are you doing there?
11:28.16 elite01 eh, i'm in germany
11:28.29 sporty elite01: what languages except english do you know?
11:28.40 elite01 german, and a little french
11:29.51 elite01 and you?
11:30.01 sporty i have most of brlcad's commands as separate xml files, prepared for translation to number of languages - can you instead of e.g. "Provides a delay of the specified time before the next command will be processed."
11:30.27 sporty i know only my native, english, and study french grammar
11:30.43 elite01 ah, want me to translate stuff to german?
11:31.04 sporty i mean you can edit it in plain text editor - all the text is already pasted at the place
11:31.31 sporty elite01: not really - just *some* commands to boost humans to do it
11:31.46 elite01 no problem
11:31.58 sporty like in, make, quit, delay and those non-complicated
11:33.00 elite01 yeah, i'll get on it when i have some time
11:33.03 elite01 where are the xml files?
11:33.12 sporty elite01: when starseeker will have edited my files I'd sent him properly - i will send you some commands. I think it's about a hour to spend to almost all commands
11:33.53 elite01 sounds ok
11:33.59 elite01 i have to go in a short while
11:34.12 sporty elite01: later, when starseeker's mom will have given him butterbread as a dinner
11:34.17 sporty elite01: ok
11:36.10 sporty un garçon el tends to la femmé
11:38.10 archivist wonders if the web structure for languages will be clean like mysql
11:39.58 archivist note placement of version and language code http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/rename-database.html
11:41.36 archivist the page name retains english regardless of language
11:48.43 sporty archivist: ok, i just try to study it by means of attempts and mistakes.
11:49.26 sporty archivist: is it a big web-page (in kilobytes)?
11:50.23 archivist individual pages are not too large, but there are lots of them
11:55.56 sporty archivist: i mean this page you've called - my traffic is limited!
11:57.06 archivist not big at all
11:57.42 archivist and that particular page has a link to japanese version
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12:24.16 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
12:25.05 IriX64 louipc, i tried -diff, it did the whole bloody tree
12:25.43 IriX64 do you have to say brlcad/src/other/libtermlib for instance?
12:48.06 *** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.192)
12:48.35 sporty *connection goes offline sometimes*
12:57.36 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/VFVPyY15.html <--- for interests sake :)
12:58.22 sporty interests in what?
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13:35.45 sporty http://rafb.net/p/VFVPyY15.html <-- Who is Cassandra? Mrs. Irix64? Or you sister? Is she cute? Are her shapes resilient and beauty?
13:36.02 sporty *your
13:55.16 sporty "developer command" - like what, quickly! Is it like "commands of the developers of ..." or it is jst "commands (to be used) to develop images"?
13:56.35 sporty i've questions of interest, you've got answers - let's have lots of fun, dudes
13:58.02 sporty celebrates that fact that he've seen a *busy* day of another busy humans
13:58.12 sporty *he's
14:25.29 sporty i guess i'm offline again
14:26.53 sporty strange... TV says people've started to eat each other due to the crisis
14:27.37 sporty we, dudes of brlcad, must be robust - and eat our wifes instead of each other!
14:27.45 sporty hello?
14:28.29 sporty Bbbbbbbbwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaa-hhhhh-aaaaaaaaa-hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
14:32.04 sporty we can eat youkonbob... ;) i guess ours bearings can be Alaska or north Canada for this sake
14:36.08 sporty Or e.g. PrezKennedy - he's old and not tasty i think - let's find some amazonia's women then! By means of his charizmata (i mean a gift of grace)... Uh i want into the eating-house... CIA-6: I want to sell my government for few pounds of potatos. What secrets do you want to know? Are you related to the CIA or FBI
14:37.46 sporty People: tell me something! (But i gues, at *their* morning they will surely do!)
14:39.21 sporty PrezKennedy: i still want to marry one of your daughter!
14:41.36 sporty laptopheads and laptoplidcloses and iternetacessswitchesoffs and lots of superposition things happens at once.
14:43.08 *** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
14:43.58 PrezKennedy shoots sporty full of tranquilizer darts
14:44.33 sporty my as5, my beautiful as5 laptop is ruined!
14:44.43 sporty PrezKennedy: You wil pay for it!
14:44.56 sporty PrezKennedy: my rockets are at the Cuba!!!
14:45.07 claymore 's eyes hurt after following this channel for a bit to long this morning....
14:45.30 sporty PrezKennedy: Immediately, tell me your location to die as the noble gentlemen!
14:46.34 sporty kills PrezKennedy and marry both of his daughters at once. Happy End!
14:47.45 sporty *marries
14:51.32 sporty (Two young beautiful adies lick sporty's waunds, sporty feels good, sporty's a sporty!)
14:52.06 sporty ok, going to see TV since the channel is dead.
14:52.24 sporty uh! almost has gone to see TV!
14:52.34 claymore There is 'Off-topic' and then there is *Off-Topic!' ;)
14:53.07 sporty like #brlcad*Off-Topic ?
14:53.22 PrezKennedy or #brlcad-offthewalls
14:53.45 claymore Just saying that only certain Off-Topic topics will get replied to.
14:54.05 PrezKennedy like hot chicks
14:54.44 sporty ok, so is it morning there where you are?
14:54.54 claymore sure is.
14:56.49 sporty sitting here, where i am and loking there, where you are through the prism of the nets - i do not understand is it a morning or is it an evening like here where i am and loking there, where you are - and try to write complicated english phrases with no mistakes.
14:59.03 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/ZTVcaf26.html <--- are you interested in warnings like this?
15:01.05 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/N9nCL741.html <--- and this
15:01.18 sporty IriX64: wait, i need a proxy for http
15:01.26 IriX64 ill go back to skulking :)
15:01.40 sporty IriX64: ok
15:04.08 sporty IriX64: not really, i'm relatively new to brl-cad. I think you compile something under cygwin environment to launch *nix binaries in win os. Just compile it in linux, that's a way!
15:04.53 *** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.192)
15:09.35 IriX64 delay.c in libged needs a #include<sys/time.h>
15:50.25 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/xCIk1E40.html <---- this stops the build
15:53.20 IriX64 http://rafb.net/p/3fM1wA43.html <--- this too stops the build, am i out of line doing this here or is it welcomed?
16:06.51 IriX64 bwish,mged,rttherm,pl-dm,bombardier all require -lXft -lXss to build
16:08.43 IriX64 clone.c has a problem with obj_list its defined elsewhere, im changing mine to mged_obj_list and praying it doesn't screw anything up
16:08.48 IriX64 in mged dir
16:08.56 *** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
16:16.13 *** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
16:17.17 IriX64 rtsrv.c tries to reinvent the wheel with a local copy of bu_bomb forgetting to change the names and it blows up at link time
16:28.02 claymore ``Erik: Where you at?
17:47.30 ``Erik at home, actually, what's up?
17:48.53 *** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
17:49.41 sporty yukonbob: i havew come with a tablespoon!
17:49.53 sporty yukonbob: and it's crisis!
17:50.08 sporty yukonbob: just care yourself
18:01.52 *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
18:06.56 *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@69-196-180-29.dsl.teksavvy.com)
18:38.43 sporty channel is dead as never...
18:54.05 sporty or my new connection is faulty
18:55.24 sporty or it's a busy day, or it's abusy day, or people want some rest when the rest of the week equals to its behinning
18:57.39 sporty brlcad: i can use Emacs (i mean i can easily compile it with on offline system) - what are its essental parts, why do "old" programmers like it?
19:00.51 *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
19:01.35 sporty louipc: have you ever used Emacs?
19:01.57 louipc I used to use xemacs a few years ago
19:02.21 sporty louipc: what are its essential parts, why do people like it?
19:03.04 sporty I mean i'd used full set of MS office - with complicated formulae and so on - and emacs seems too weird by now
19:03.12 louipc I think people like it because it's highly configurable with elisp
19:04.17 sporty and what does elisp offers? Can i "write down" some formulas as those wth integrals and sums?
19:04.25 louipc vi and emacs are also quite efficient at text editing once you learn how to use them
19:04.39 louipc you never need to touch the mouse :D
19:05.03 sporty ok, i think you mean they're really fast in comparison with those with GUI
19:05.08 sporty right!
19:05.10 louipc it's just a scripting language, yeah I guess you can do formulae with it
19:05.31 louipc I'm not familiar with how to do emacs scripting though
19:06.32 sporty ok... i will have compiled it with elisp manuals... i have found slackware 10 dvd - hehe, with sources, hehe
19:06.49 louipc well that's what slack is all about hah
19:07.35 sporty but it can not handle my new pc :( had to use ubuntu on offline pc - andd have no cheap internet
19:07.48 louipc http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/elisp.html
19:07.56 sporty ok
19:08.31 sporty louipc: don't you know some good tutorial about python programming language?
19:08.57 *** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
19:09.32 louipc hah good question. I've never looked at a tutorial I've only dove right into the code.
19:11.29 sporty louipc: ok... i ust need to dove into few books right now - head is reeling ...
19:13.24 claymore ``Erik: nadda, you just missed a rare occasion where i eat lunch out... nothing big. ;)
19:15.47 sporty claymore: sometimes in the night, when i think it' s arainy day and i'm on my bike - i cry "more, more of the clay" - and scare mrs.sporty...
19:15.58 sporty ;)
19:15.58 sporty :-X
19:16.06 sporty :-/
19:22.13 *** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
19:22.21 claymore ..... okay.... that's just plain odd.
19:22.48 sporty yeah...
19:23.07 louipc hahaha
19:29.19 sporty What does words "new gui" mean?
19:29.55 claymore 'new gui' == 'new Graphical User Interface'
19:31.09 sporty claymore: yeah, i have asked with "Graphical User Interface" = "GUI" on my mind... What a new GUI?
19:33.49 claymore There is work underway for a new GUI interface in the rt^3/src/g3d directory
19:35.10 sporty well, ok, nice answer for that one non-initiated in programming (for me)... Simply into /src/g3d, where src = sources
19:35.42 sporty claymore: will it hide a half of a screen?
19:36.35 sporty claymore: i want to know, is it hard to "attach" new Qt design to existing foss program?
19:37.18 sporty i mean i don't really know how to add it... well i need to strive... but you probably know people who tried to do this
19:37.36 claymore define 'qt design' please...
19:38.41 sporty uh... that Qt3 or Qt4 - common means of graphical interfaces to programs... ah i do not remember...
19:41.18 sporty ...i have compiled such 50-megs tarball - and want to 'modify' some programs (if it will be easy for a non-skilled-non-programmer)
19:41.24 claymore are you speaking of "Qt cross platform Application Framework" ?
19:42.00 sporty i mean i did it on offline pc, where one mb equals one ice cream in its cost
19:42.13 sporty claymore: yes
19:42.35 sporty about its free version for non-commercial use
19:43.36 claymore sporty: Well, I hadn't looked into that, but I can see that if we were to attempt to use that, there would be a massive amount of person-hours required to rework the existing brl-cad suite to use qt.
19:43.36 sporty i want to modify one program (foss) - then do something in a long term... ah i just have an inspiration
19:44.38 claymore the new gui, aka, g3d will (probably) not use qt. Developement of the new GUI is not at the top priority quite yet, but it will be eventually.
19:44.41 sporty you mean it can't be boundled with qt? i thought it was some kind of a standart
19:45.17 claymore I suppose the new GUI *could* use qt, but it would warrent a bit of investigation.
19:45.24 *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
19:45.27 sporty g3d - is it a name of a standard?
19:46.43 alex_joni http://www.google.ro/search?q=g3d
19:46.54 claymore sporty: no, g3d is the nickname for the new GUI that a GSoC student prototyped for BRL-CAD. The code resides in the rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/
19:46.59 sporty well, ok... i'm only about to arrange some commands right now... I just think i will know how to use qt soon... just don't know yet how to bundle it to the code
19:47.53 sporty claymore: ok, i will not see into the trunk right now. Just interesting.
19:50.10 sporty claymore: how do you think: does starseeker sleep right now? I have no idea if names shall be like 3ptarb1 or i can leave it as 3ptarb--rus
19:50.41 claymore sporty: Pretty sure starseeker is at work and just a bit busy.
19:52.01 sporty ok, but i'm drinking tea, made of dry apples, dendelion leaves and camomile
19:52.39 sporty ...and smoking garlics' stems - i'm vegan...
19:53.14 claymore just had Turkey, Roast Beast and Chicken for lunch. :)
19:53.17 sporty and save money ...:-$
19:53.45 sporty thinks claymore isn't hurted with a crisis...
19:53.51 brlcad sporty: 'brlcad' is me, 'BRL-CAD' is the software -- they're not the same thing (..at least not yet) -- referring to it in lower is cool, e.g., 'brl-cad'
19:54.02 brlcad otherwise, you're driving me nuts :)
19:54.13 sporty brlcad: it will be the same!
19:54.39 sporty brlcad: ok
19:55.48 sporty what do you eat when you feel a lack of attention? Don't say you drink coffee!
19:56.27 claymore sporty: who are you talking to?
19:57.30 sporty то alive humans
19:57.48 claymore drinks Mt Dew when needed.
19:57.51 sporty you (_pl.)
19:58.02 sporty Mt Dew?
19:58.06 claymore doesn't like coffee to much.
19:58.27 claymore http://www.mountaindew.com/
19:58.32 sporty i like tonic
19:58.50 claymore and I be that tonic likes you too!
19:58.58 claymore :D
19:59.05 sporty claymore: ah, i know this from tv advertisings
19:59.34 sporty claymore: i meant shwepps or any tonic, tonic with lemon and so on
20:00.18 sporty is it possible to type e.g. 60 words per minute
20:01.06 claymore yes.
20:01.14 sporty really?
20:01.46 claymore its been a while, but i benchmarked myself at ~73 wpm
20:01.55 sporty i mean i want it. I'm using "Phonetics" layout for my native... Wow!
20:02.17 claymore some people, mostly Data Entry Specialists, have been known to achieve 120+ wpm.
20:02.27 sporty holy Key B. ART
20:04.50 sporty claymore: i typed fastly on some layouts, too.. But i think if i put my fingers vertically - i could get arthritis with all these words... Using laptop, try to dramatically accelerate it...
20:05.35 claymore its a hazard of the occupation, but one I will risk :)
20:06.38 sporty claymore: btw, it is good idea to get some hikes in dirty clay - helps to skin and probably adds some microelements beneath the skin
20:07.07 sporty *helps for a skin*
20:07.12 claymore has kids. I get plenty dirty more often thank I like.
20:09.53 sporty claymore: ok, but i would like some trophies along the rivers. I've used to do it on a bicycle. But a bike or a car is good, too. The point is non-angry tyres, which force you to stay in dirty from clay water for longer. aand don't hurt to mother nature too much
20:15.32 sporty i like trophies on sake-bearing cars as some stock vehicles. When there is a prudence of fun... There's olways a way to use vehicles with rubber tracks when you really don't want to sit in a swamp... This interest was a first my mature interest in this world - and all i plan right now is related to this or snwboard or even sk8boarding, which attitude seems like too high for a while for my poor, wounded body.
20:20.10 brlcad sporty: emacs is a programmable "environment" for just about any purpose with lots of macros and functionality specifically tailored to programming and programming-related tasks
20:20.20 brlcad that's why many programmers like it
20:20.40 brlcad it has a nasty learning curve, but it's well worth it if coding is a long term endevour
20:21.21 claymore ide's >> emacs :D
20:21.23 claymore ducks
20:26.02 sporty ok, i already try to read elisp tutorial. I ant to know an easy way to handle simple calculations (and save it as text) - and to add complicated formulas as integrals & sums and so on. I need this because i'd used MS products for this earlier. Now i'm about open source - and i hope it will be a bit faster & simply
20:28.31 sporty well, i need to sleep... on a bench, in a familiar university, - so as i could scare away mobsters at the darkness... Hard time for young man with non-cheap laptop and contributions to open source...
20:29.04 sporty it's crisis...
20:32.45 *** join/#brlcad gentoo_iron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
20:33.46 PrezKennedy vi 4 ever!!!
20:35.17 brlcad IriX64: thanks for the adrt build failures -- the rtsrv one, though, isn't an error (it's a compiler setting issue)
20:37.03 *** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
20:37.55 IriX64 welcome, im still fighting fbed :)
20:38.45 claymore
20:38.54 brlcad g3d is just the presently temporary name for that effort -- it has (several) other names but is still effectively a prototype for the "new gui" effort (responding to backlog comments)
20:39.14 brlcad sporty: it will be the same, but not yet
20:39.40 brlcad emacs is an ide :P
20:39.45 brlcad catches up :)
20:40.05 sporty PrezKennedy: i can't not to kiss your daughters' hands and some other territories... Would you mind?
20:41.21 sporty brlcad: i hope brl-cad's interface will be very new in wise meaning- it shall not hide half-a-display...
20:41.33 louipc :O
20:42.04 sporty brlcad: how much commands does brl-cad have? Something like 70 ?
20:42.25 claymore just saw a Red Light
20:42.25 brlcad if PrezKennedy has daughters, he's sure got a lot of 'splaining to do Lucy
20:42.34 brlcad sporty: that is the intent
20:42.53 brlcad there are just over 400 commands outside of mged
20:42.54 *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
20:43.08 brlcad about 300-400 useful commands inside of mged
20:43.20 sporty brlcad: i meant old mged_cmd_reference
20:43.36 sporty there's about 80 commands
20:43.57 sporty and binary files in ../bin directory
20:44.28 brlcad there should be about 400 in the bin directory for a full-distribution
20:44.30 brlcad you on windows?
20:44.54 brlcad windows has much less unless it's a cygwin/mingw build
20:45.12 sporty brlcad: i mean /html/mged_cmd_index.html - i'm editing it
20:45.36 brlcad there are several mged commands that aren't documented in mged_cmd_index.html
20:45.50 sporty i have xml files, which are ready to be filled with a number of languages
20:46.09 sporty brlcad: like what?
20:46.21 brlcad ./html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html is pretty old
20:46.47 sporty "cleanmyapartment -R [-i -g -h -t] now"
20:47.13 sporty brlcad: well, i still have not finished it...
20:47.49 sporty brlcad: btw, am i right to use "I have" - or shall i use "I has" ?
20:47.57 brlcad I have
20:48.19 brlcad ah, looks like the command index hasn't been converted to docbook justyet
20:48.33 sporty i also think "I" + "use" = "me use"
20:48.33 brlcad so carry on!
20:48.55 sporty i meant rus variant and then few variants, also
20:49.00 brlcad not unless you're a pirate
20:49.22 sporty not full, probably, for young students and scolars
20:49.33 claymore arg!
20:49.36 starseeker Be sure to keep an eye on the sourceforge svn trunk - we have someone adding xml files for MGED commands
20:51.51 sporty brlcad: seriously, words in mged_cmd_index are very good, simple and non-complicated. The only sake to add other languages are: 1. for those who is in the scholl - but wants some first fast 'results' 2. for fast start with a program. Things like rt or modelling *do* need at least an english dictionary - and so on
20:52.29 sporty starseeker: immediately, tell me your email while i'm trying to get another tea!
20:52.30 brlcad sporty: how about for someone that doesn't actually speak any english
20:53.13 starseeker sporty: I've seen your email messages, but I can't respond to them yet
20:53.20 sporty brlcad: believe me, my friend who stidied german - can handle reading of mged cmd reference
20:53.21 starseeker I have other priorities at work right now
20:53.29 sporty *friends*
20:53.43 sporty starseeker: only one question
20:53.44 brlcad IriX64: your sources are out of date, so the errors are no longer valid
20:53.57 brlcad remember to try the latest sources when you run into problems
20:54.01 starseeker sporty: what's the question?
20:54.27 brlcad sporty: your premise is still invalid if they don't have the same background as y ou
20:54.38 sporty starseeker: <refentry id="echo--rus"> or <refentry id="echo1"> for russian, and <refentry id="echo--deu"> or <refentry id="echo2"> - for german?
20:54.50 brlcad same reason why people translate anything at all -- you certainly don't have to, nobody is going to make you
20:55.04 brlcad if you do, much appreciated -- I'm sure others will appreciate the translations too
20:55.59 sporty brlcad: believe me, it is not so! People, who're far from pc try to model bikes from American chopper in 3ds max- without a background in windows' file structures.
20:57.04 brlcad sporty: I have absolutely no basis to believe anything you say, this is irc :)
20:57.25 brlcad still it's bogus
20:57.32 sporty brlcad: how about this: "region" = region, "elliptical" = ellipticheskiy, and so on - same words, just their meaning is *same*
20:57.51 sporty ok
20:57.57 brlcad shouldn't use dashes on the 'id' attributes if we're to be consistent
20:58.11 brlcad most elsewhere it uses dots as a separator
20:58.22 sporty brlcad: ok then <refentry id="echo1"> and <refentry id="echo2">
20:58.28 sporty ok
20:58.29 brlcad dashes where the symbol itself has a dash (like line-width)
20:58.42 sporty ok
20:58.45 brlcad echo1 and echo2 are horrible id's :)
20:58.53 brlcad it should say what it is
20:59.00 sporty brlcad: which then?
20:59.35 starseeker sporty: For language identification, I think it should use the lang property
20:59.36 sporty echo1 =rus, echo2=deutsch, echo3=...
20:59.52 sporty starseeker: which field?
20:59.53 brlcad e.g., "index.preferred.page.properties", "table.footnote.properties", "body.end.indent", etc
20:59.59 starseeker e.g. <refentry lang="ru">
21:00.14 sporty starseeker: at which line?
21:00.51 starseeker Uh... what do you mean which line? You're specifying the language of that refentry
21:00.58 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33270 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Activate Archer's wizard menu and primitive edit toolbar. Added commands for editing primitives via the mouse to libtclcad's Ged object.
21:01.10 sporty i think i can add it at 5th or 6th line
21:01.25 starseeker If you want unique ids for a command's refentry, do something like <refentry id="man.search.ru">
21:01.28 sporty starseeker: ok
21:01.28 brlcad lang is xml namespaced too, isn't it?
21:01.33 brlcad xml:lang="rt"
21:01.36 brlcad er, heh
21:01.39 brlcad ru
21:02.03 starseeker not in the example here: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ch04.html
21:02.04 sporty <refentry id='b--rus'>
21:02.06 sporty <refmeta>
21:02.06 sporty <PROTECTED>
21:02.37 sporty to:<refentry id='b--rus'>
21:02.38 sporty <refmeta><refentrylang>ru</refentrylang>
21:02.38 sporty <PROTECTED>
21:02.58 sporty following a link
21:03.06 starseeker I would do <refentry id="man.b.r" lang="ru">
21:03.19 brlcad ah, *docbook* has a lang attribute
21:03.22 brlcad xml has one too
21:03.25 starseeker er
21:03.30 sporty starseeker: which is your email? that sm.........@yahoo or Cl...............@gmail ?
21:03.32 starseeker I would do <refentry id="man.b.ru" lang="ru">
21:03.39 starseeker either
21:03.47 sporty ok
21:04.27 brlcad the id's don't mix with the english ones, they replace them -- can't they be/stay the same?
21:04.29 starseeker It will be a while before I can refocus on documentation again though
21:05.04 starseeker brlcad: Assuming there is no interest in using multiple language elements in a single document anywhere, sure
21:05.06 sporty starseeker: i';; send you examples to check withing this hour. Then i will sleep. You can work. It's night in here
21:05.08 brlcad which is what's cool about getting someone else to focus on it, just enough to get started ;)
21:05.47 sporty ok
21:06.17 brlcad just thinking simple is better .. mixing languages could get pretty messy on the build side
21:06.31 brlcad unnecessarily messy -- at least on a per-file basis
21:06.41 starseeker True
21:07.02 brlcad they're supposed to be stashed into language dirs anyways, so having english in a 'ru' dir would be bogus in a way
21:07.37 sporty "man.b.ru" lang="ru" - ok, this is a choice. but the rest of the file structure is as old as that search.xml - so... i'm about a final variant
21:08.00 sporty starseeker: will wiki engine work with these files "as is"?
21:08.28 sporty and: can i use wiki offline? what do i need for this?
21:09.10 sporty <refentry id="man.b.ru" lang="ru">
21:09.25 starseeker wiki will not (yet) support these files "as is"
21:09.35 starseeker extending it to do so is on my list
21:09.51 sporty starseeker: how can i reduce your efforts? gimme a template
21:09.59 CIA-6 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.h: spot a conflicting type error from irix64, needs to be stdint type
21:10.16 brlcad ~sporty++
21:10.54 starseeker sporty: Any of the existing files in brlcad/doc/docbook/system/man1/
21:11.04 sporty starseeker: i can edit already-created files as youu wish.
21:11.12 starseeker In fact, there is a file mged_cmd_template.xml
21:11.16 sporty starseeker: ok, getting it
21:11.26 starseeker but the main benefit for you is to do translations of the existing en files
21:11.34 starseeker which are in en
21:11.37 sporty starseeker: is this file big (in kb)?
21:11.40 starseeker no
21:11.48 sporty ok
21:12.05 starseeker For id, just use the command name for now
21:12.11 starseeker no man.b.ru
21:12.22 brlcad huh, there is? I searched for two specific strings from the original html and couldn't find it
21:12.23 starseeker If there are id conflicts, we'll work it out
21:12.39 sporty i have about 30-40 files, those big as dm and so on. tiny files and files with *paragraphs* are on my list
21:12.51 sporty starseeker: ok
21:13.02 brlcad oh, oops -- index != template
21:13.11 starseeker right
21:13.42 sporty well, can i use tag <pre></pre> for paragraphs?
21:13.49 starseeker I don't have a master index file that xincludes all the individual ones yet - that'll be what replaces the old appendix in Vol II
21:14.03 sporty i mean that bold text from mged cmd index
21:14.13 starseeker looks up the pre tag
21:14.17 sporty starseeker: ok
21:14.45 sporty starseeker: i would like to see off-line wiki engine in brlcad installation
21:14.55 sporty ...when commands are separate
21:14.58 starseeker pre isn't a docbook tag
21:15.05 sporty starseeker: ok
21:15.25 starseeker legal docbook tags can be found here: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/part2.html
21:15.32 brlcad sporty: you mean brl-cad installation
21:15.47 sporty brlcad: no, i mean you!
21:15.54 brlcad an off-line wiki is kinda pointless :)
21:16.29 sporty brlcad: but it looks good! big mged cmd index just frighten me!
21:16.30 starseeker The off-line way to view these files is either to point a web browser to the html install directory or use the new tkhtml3 based doc viewer
21:16.33 starseeker in MGED
21:17.00 sporty inmmged?
21:17.01 brlcad sporty: sure .. that just has nothing to do with a 'wiki'
21:17.36 brlcad off-line viewing is great, breaking up the page and displaying just the information requested, searchability, better organization .. all great things
21:17.43 sporty ok, i gree to use it in mged - but how will i interrupt it to add nes argument to the command line?
21:17.56 *** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14CB01.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:18.05 sporty ok, keep on working
21:18.09 brlcad sporty: you work on the conversion, we can work on the integration
21:18.41 brlcad either breaking up the english and stubbing out more command files (using the mged_cmd_template) .. or by taking existing command files and translating them
21:20.28 sporty brlcad: it's a double work - double work!
21:20.41 starseeker Speaking alphabetically, we have someone who is already working on commands adc - dup
21:21.05 starseeker you'll see those being integrated
21:21.14 sporty i'm about an old cmd index - as i said it is quite easy to read it on english
21:21.20 brlcad that's not double work
21:21.26 brlcad the old is going away
21:21.28 brlcad *poof*
21:21.34 brlcad so you can help with that or help elsewhere
21:22.11 starseeker I think he means it's not worth translating a lot of the docs
21:22.13 sporty ok, i have about 30 files "as is", fully translated, i will send it today for an integration
21:22.19 starseeker cool!
21:22.27 starseeker thank you
21:22.27 brlcad sporty: post it to the patches tracker
21:22.34 sporty starseeker: no, i mean this:
21:23.00 sporty The only sake to add other languages are: 1. for those who is in the scholl - but wants some first fast 'results' 2. for fast start with a program. Things like rt or modelling *do* need at least an english dictionary - and so on
21:23.03 brlcad here, https://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
21:23.48 brlcad sporty: are you just wanting to argue or make everyone agree with you? it's not necessary
21:23.56 brlcad if you don't want to do a translation, then don't do it
21:24.03 brlcad justifying why is not necessary
21:24.07 brlcad someone else will eventually
21:24.13 sporty brlcad: it's fun i can eat one ice cream instead of each megabyte of internet traffic... I want to send 50 kb to someone mailbox, not to post files... ah...
21:25.28 brlcad sporty: it's easier to track credit for the contribution if you go through the patches tracker instead of via e-mail, so that others can be aware of your contributions
21:25.49 brlcad that also makes it easier to justify giving you commit access down the road if you're being helpful/productive
21:26.19 sporty no, i've added pages "about" and "wiki" to dloman77 box - now i'm trying to disassemble old mged_cmd_index.html. i have about 200 kb of short commands. this will be translated shortly wilst i have a break in reading some my skilled books
21:26.25 brlcad shows you can work with others well enough that you'd be trusted to make the changes directly yourself, submitting as patches helps that process
21:26.54 brlcad sporty: did dloman77 ask for those changes?
21:28.12 sporty it was rus variant
21:28.35 sporty brlcad: you have it in your mail box, i bet!
21:28.51 sporty and starseeker already have it, too
21:30.43 sporty starseeker: btw, those my messages - don't even read it now - i have new and edited files
21:33.22 sporty oh my lord... i still stay far from http traffic... I agree to short memory in authors page later, after all, when i will feel a vanity!
21:35.45 sporty i guess i'm offline again
21:35.53 sporty no..
21:42.05 sporty shall i leave this or it is not actual: Currently, only binary objects containing a uniform array of simple objects is supported.
21:42.31 brlcad that's still true
21:42.38 sporty ок
21:43.10 sporty la-la(Alt+Shift)-ла
21:43.40 sporty хе-хе = he-he
21:44.42 sporty as you can see, main words are same
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21:54.02 sporty "brlcad: that's still true" - shame on you!
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22:06.46 sporty again, stay far from http - staying far from http traffic
22:07.13 sporty sending |part1| to starseeker
22:15.07 brlcad sporty: that's not shameful
22:15.37 brlcad non-uniform binary objects have such limited use (actually NO use to us without implementing other features that would use them)
22:16.42 brlcad it's just that functionality was stubbed for non-uniform, so the statement is true -- it won't make coffee for you too, but since we didn't stub it there is no statement
22:17.55 sporty brlcad: ok
22:21.12 sporty ok... i wanted to add some "international" glamour with that ".../d/About" page and wiki and wiki rus references. Btw, how can i transform pdf-to-html to translate some pdf files from /d/documents?
22:22.31 starseeker Don't know if it's any good, but there's this: http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/
22:23.38 sporty starseeker: i will starve the rest of the week if i will have gone to sourceforge - but i will go!
22:25.01 sporty <PROTECTED>
22:25.04 starseeker Even using a text browser?
22:25.11 sporty proxy...
22:25.17 starseeker is partial to links
22:25.37 sporty starseeker: even pay 0.30 per each megabyte!
22:26.00 louipc poppler is good for pdfto*
22:26.02 louipc http://poppler.freedesktop.org/
22:26.07 sporty toonel.net
22:26.39 sporty hope it has no dependencies on the different libs
22:27.34 sporty 0.30 usd
22:27.52 starseeker Here's the original links text browser: http://links.sourceforge.net/
22:28.01 sporty ok... but i can use it to read my books...
22:28.39 starseeker There used to be services where you could order CDs/DVDs with whole linux distros on them
22:28.46 starseeker perhaps that would be cheaper, even with shipping
22:28.57 sporty starseeker: text browsers don't save traffic... when your web browser has images turned off
22:30.10 starseeker Ah
22:30.25 sporty starseeker: i know good asplinux on e.g. 5 cd s with tons of libs and everything - i do not know anyone with fresh version, don't want to pay 400 usd for 3-month professional support
22:31.08 starseeker what's the latest version?
22:32.22 sporty latest... don't know... it is a Fedora-like with rpms... My old version was too old for new laptop - and i had to install ubuntu from one cd
22:32.44 sporty www.asplinux.ru
22:34.00 starseeker Don't know if these guys are any good, but... http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/asp
22:34.06 brlcad sporty: don't do pdf-to-html on anything
22:34.18 brlcad we have the originals in other formats (whether they be docbook or msword or whatever)
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22:34.41 brlcad those are much better starting points than the pdf unless you are just going to type everything in from scratch
22:35.08 sporty brlcad: why? I want to "format" my skilled books (600 pages of plain inspiration) - and to translate some /d/docs
22:35.15 brlcad those weren't made in a vaccuum .. we have the originals ;)
22:35.55 brlcad i'm not saying don't do the translation -- i'm saying don't just start doing a pdf-to-html conversion
22:36.00 brlcad starting with the pdf would be stupid
22:36.05 brlcad we have better formats to start from
22:36.06 sporty brlcad: ok, which one has a least size in kilobytes? send me one, i can handle it in a text editor
22:36.28 brlcad i can send you volume 1
22:36.39 brlcad if you do a decent job on that, we can try 3 or 2
22:37.02 brlcad 2 is already docbookified
22:37.08 sporty brlcad: ok, i'm waiting - at morning, one megabyte will be equal to one ice cream, now it's only 3 megabytes are equal to one ice cream....
22:37.11 brlcad that'd be the better starting point .. don't know about vol 1
22:37.27 brlcad sporty: huh? wtf are you talking about? :)
22:37.34 brlcad you want me to buy you some ice cream?
22:37.52 sporty brlcad: let me only to translate it, and "What size does it have"?
22:38.10 starseeker volume 1 is small
22:38.13 brlcad tiny
22:38.16 sporty Volume one.... let me guess.... 980 kb ??
22:38.20 brlcad i don't remember the exact size, but it's tiny
22:38.22 sporty come on!
22:38.30 sporty tell me
22:38.44 brlcad what part of "I don't remember" do you not understand? :)
22:38.45 sporty and send now, not after an hour!
22:39.08 sporty brlcad: ok, just tell me before you send it
22:39.33 starseeker brlcad: Is that the Overview on the wiki?
22:39.38 brlcad sporty: i'll probably post it and you can pull it when you're ready
22:39.48 brlcad starseeker: yeah, is that docbookified yet?
22:39.55 starseeker Don't think so.
22:39.57 brlcad k
22:40.06 brlcad good, cause I have that in italian too
22:40.07 starseeker Was just thinking I can copy that text and send it to him, no images
22:42.47 brlcad it's already neatly tagged somewhere
22:43.06 sporty starseeker: right!
22:43.22 sporty starseeker: this way work will be faster!
22:43.37 PrezKennedy hey, anyone wanna go to Zimbabwe?
22:43.47 PrezKennedy i hear their water goes right through ya...
22:43.54 sporty e.g. save the file as "complete html", than send me only compresseg .html
22:44.45 sporty PrezKennedy: i want to ask your daughters' hands, roasted with ketchup, on a lunch
22:45.01 sporty PrezKennedy: it's crisis... and i want to ask your daughters' hands, roasted with ketchup, on a lunch
22:47.04 PrezKennedy yes... i think...
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22:47.58 brlcad sporty: well you can copy the text yourself from the website then too :)
22:48.02 sporty PrezKennedy: ok! quickly! i'm hungry ...for love...
22:48.19 brlcad save the page, do your edits
22:48.27 brlcad that's also tagged up well enough
22:48.30 sporty brlcad: ha-ha - i will have to download .pdf file
22:48.36 brlcad no, volume I
22:48.50 sporty brlcad: ok, give me a link
22:48.59 brlcad http://brlcad.org/wiki/Overview
22:49.09 sporty just don't... ah! /d/documents ??
22:49.14 sporty ok
22:49.28 brlcad ah, yeah -- that's even a wiki page, so you could add the internationalization directly
22:50.26 brlcad simplified version here: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD
22:50.34 brlcad *very* simplified
22:50.54 sporty stares at Bloodhound Gang - Ballad Of Chasey Lain
22:51.11 sporty he's her biggest fan!
22:51.51 sporty she have a lot of friends, he has a lot of time! Come on, sing it 2get there
22:53.08 sporty why "simlified" read this: naturalstuff.110mb.com - second paragraph
22:56.10 brlcad i'm saying the wikipedia write-up is a simplified version of the english variant
22:56.38 brlcad and both of those are a simplified derivative of the wiki/Overview page (they started out as the same content)
22:56.43 brlcad wanders off
22:58.18 sporty brlcad: what if i'm editin that page - will you have to copy my new brave foreign words into some .xml file?
22:58.44 sporty brlcad: do you know Charley Wuffles ? He's a singer?
22:59.27 sporty Charley Wuffles = Charley Shean in "Two and a half men"
23:02.44 sporty ok, going to drink my drinks and watch my watches
23:03.07 sporty i mean going to switch off internet this day off
23:03.18 sporty i mean going to quit the chat
23:03.27 sporty i\m quitting
23:03.42 sporty bye! see you
23:03.46 *** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
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23:04.19 sporty see you're sitting and do not answering!
23:04.21 *** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
23:04.37 PrezKennedy i want what he's on
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23:26.41 IriX64 would anybody have any idea on how to solve the can't find -llibtermlib thing in fbed?
23:28.00 IriX64 same in lgt
23:29.32 Ralith IriX64: -l implies a "lib" prefix; try -ltermlib
23:29.47 Ralith unless I'm missing something
23:30.06 IriX64 ahh thankyou
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23:52.10 Ralith brlcad: do you still have that paper on cutaway generation lying around?
23:52.15 Ralith can't find where he put it
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