| 00:10.18 | starseeker | message to self - per discussion with Sean, push GED checks for database state in commands down to where the command actually needs to know - "correct" way to avoid status picking up errors from the ged commands run in startup |
| 00:20.24 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@mail.fbcelkhart.org) | |
| 00:27.59 | brlcad | if we separate out help from the main work command, then the checks could conceivably remain at the top -- we'll end up with something like rt_functab that the wrapper would use to invoke a command |
| 00:28.13 | brlcad | for now, though, I think the next step is to just do the push-down |
| 00:33.43 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.4.20) | |
| 00:34.37 | brlcad | howdy andrecastelo ! |
| 00:34.40 | brlcad | ltns |
| 00:34.59 | andrecastelo | howdy brlcad :D |
| 00:36.01 | andrecastelo | how's everything??? |
| 00:36.09 | brlcad | busy as all frack |
| 00:36.23 | brlcad | too many irons in the fire I suppose |
| 00:36.32 | brlcad | otherwise, going great |
| 00:36.54 | brlcad | has to run off for a bit, ttyl |
| 00:38.11 | andrecastelo | :D |
| 01:09.54 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r33748 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: Add libxslt as makedepends, and tkhtml3 as optdepends in Arch PKGBUILD. |
| 01:16.43 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) | |
| 01:59.10 | ``Erik_ | heh, I keep seeing more and more about ted lately O.o |
| 02:43.28 | *** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com) | |
| 03:03.55 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-158.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) | |
| 03:42.16 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096600726.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:50.27 | starseeker | ``Erik: the old rich text editor? |
| 03:50.39 | starseeker | hasn't heard of it in years... |
| 03:51.30 | starseeker | hey, cool - it does still exist: http://www.nllgg.nl/Ted/ |
| 03:51.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | silly antiques ;) |
| 03:51.54 | starseeker | indeed |
| 03:52.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | actually, ted was not a very clever name... |
| 03:52.35 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i have known of several, unrelated text editors named ted |
| 03:52.59 | louipc | oh sweet! |
| 03:53.07 | louipc | installs ted |
| 03:53.12 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i should start a collection |
| 03:53.26 | starseeker | used it back in the 386 days... |
| 03:53.36 | starseeker | Abiword was too much for it, iirc |
| 03:54.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | Abiword! |
| 03:54.23 | louipc | Abiword is as far as I want to go. |
| 03:54.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | my current favs are nano, the one built into mc, and kate |
| 03:55.07 | starseeker | grows ever fonder of vim |
| 03:55.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i do not mean to start debate... |
| 03:55.45 | louipc | vim++ |
| 03:55.46 | starseeker | nah, nowadays they're all pretty good |
| 03:55.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | editors are really a matter of habit and preference |
| 03:56.04 | starseeker | you just have to spend a lot of time to take advantage of the powerful ones |
| 03:56.10 | louipc | they should tweak evim so it's usable via console |
| 03:56.13 | starseeker | still uses nedit for quick and dirty |
| 03:56.20 | louipc | then there would be no reason for nano whatsoever |
| 03:56.56 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i remember my 1st experience w/ vi. got stuck in slackware 96 after i wiped my dos partition. i had no idea what to do, never heard of a man page, nothing |
| 03:57.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i was hurting |
| 03:57.53 | louipc | I had a book so it wasn't so bad |
| 03:58.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | given that trauma, i think that you can understand my reluctance to use vi and all derivitaves, even if i can acknowledge their technical greatness |
| 03:58.18 | starseeker | sure - a lot of people associate it with emergency situations |
| 03:58.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, i did not know that they wrote books for those sorts of things |
| 03:58.40 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ya might call it baptism by fire |
| 03:58.49 | louipc | hehe |
| 03:58.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 03:59.22 | louipc | well when I first dived into linux I did hear that it was a bit challenging, so I went out and got some docs |
| 03:59.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | also, i was using the worst possible hardware |
| 04:00.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i had never heard of it... i complained that windows crashed and dos was limiting (wanted better shell) |
| 04:00.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | so my cousin sent me a disk, and it really forced me to learn a lot |
| 04:00.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | glad for it now |
| 04:00.33 | louipc | nice |
| 04:00.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | oh, no net access, either |
| 04:01.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that might have helped |
| 04:02.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i still prefer nano due to it's ease of integration in very tiny systems (very tiny still means qwerty kbd or remote shell of some kind) |
| 04:02.20 | louipc | good luck getting that to work way back then :P |
| 04:02.40 | Dr_Phreakenstein | getting what to work? |
| 04:02.53 | louipc | internet? |
| 04:03.07 | louipc | dialup - ppp |
| 04:03.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | in 96? my only restriction was parental |
| 04:03.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i had a ... 14,400 baud modem |
| 04:03.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that's *over* 14K! |
| 04:03.45 | louipc | sweet |
| 04:04.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i know, i could not even whistle that fast! |
| 04:04.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ahem... |
| 04:04.38 | Dr_Phreakenstein | chai, the russian way has a *lot* of caffeine in it |
| 04:05.00 | louipc | yeah I actually didn't -get- vi, and I didn't like it |
| 04:05.08 | louipc | so I used emacs for awhile :D |
| 04:05.58 | Dr_Phreakenstein | now there is the kirby-vacuum, universal motor assembly of software |
| 04:06.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | it has long since ceased to be primarily an editor |
| 04:06.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | now more like a complete desktop environment |
| 04:07.01 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that i still do not use |
| 04:07.10 | louipc | haha |
| 04:08.19 | louipc | you know nano isn't completely user friendly |
| 04:08.45 | louipc | I had one user ask "I'm stuck. What does ^X mean?" |
| 04:09.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | well, what can you do |
| 04:09.56 | Dr_Phreakenstein | pebkac |
| 04:10.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | had they figured out the cupholder yet? |
| 04:10.23 | louipc | well nowhere does it say ^ = ctrl |
| 04:10.41 | louipc | :D |
| 04:10.52 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no, i guess i know that from some stumbling i did back in the day... |
| 04:10.58 | louipc | they figured out ssh! |
| 04:11.04 | Dr_Phreakenstein | but it seems like a good guess |
| 04:11.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that or alt |
| 04:11.15 | louipc | or esc |
| 04:11.25 | louipc | or shift-6 |
| 04:11.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ok, so that leaves 3 combinations to try |
| 04:11.42 | Dr_Phreakenstein | all of which is faster than asking |
| 04:14.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 04:14.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | make 'em read that |
| 04:14.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and everything else by him and dj bernstein |
| 04:14.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | then, have them read theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh |
| 04:15.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that will first bring them down to size, then let them know what you are capable of |
| 04:29.22 | schwinn434 | where can I read about brlcad, and downloaded it, if possible |
| 04:29.39 | Axman6 | brlcad.org i think |
| 04:30.36 | schwinn434 | thx Axman6 |
| 04:31.27 | schwinn434 | is there a 3 dimensional cad program similar to AutoCad which is opensource |
| 04:33.42 | ``Erik | striped irregular bucket, pheer... was the gospel back when I was a sysadmin |
| 04:34.23 | ``Erik | there're some things esr has written that can safely be ignored, though... :D |
| 04:35.19 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes |
| 04:35.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | very safely |
| 04:36.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | schwinn434: qcad is 2d and OS... |
| 04:36.21 | Dr_Phreakenstein | it is available as 3d, but i believe at a $price |
| 04:36.40 | ``Erik | and screw nano, http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/ed.html |
| 04:38.20 | louipc | ``Erik++ |
| 04:41.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that was one of the funniest things i have read this year! |
| 04:41.31 | schwinn434 | is qcad opensource? |
| 04:41.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i believe so |
| 04:42.02 | schwinn434 | thx Dr_Phreakenstein |
| 04:43.29 | louipc | haha it's crippleware |
| 04:43.49 | louipc | The demo version terminates after 10 minutes. # It can be restarted and used for 100 hours in total. |
| 04:43.55 | louipc | opensource crippleware though |
| 04:43.59 | Dr_Phreakenstein | community is released under GPL |
| 04:44.02 | louipc | odd |
| 04:44.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | what? |
| 04:44.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | weird |
| 04:44.12 | louipc | http://www.qcad.org/qcad_downloads.html |
| 04:44.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i compile it and use it often |
| 04:44.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | does not do 3d, which brings me here |
| 04:45.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | if you compile it, i have found no time restriction |
| 04:46.12 | ``Erik | hrm, looks like there're 3 products, only 'professional demo' has the time restriction, community is the only gpl one |
| 04:46.21 | Dr_Phreakenstein | correct |
| 04:46.36 | schwinn434 | thx guys |
| 04:47.01 | Dr_Phreakenstein | but really, schwinn434, brlcad can import and export autocad files |
| 04:47.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | you should use that instead |
| 04:47.16 | ``Erik | erm, a subset of |
| 04:47.25 | louipc | I guess the time restraints is a config option in their build |
| 04:47.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | shhhh... |
| 04:47.33 | louipc | possibly |
| 04:47.40 | ``Erik | like we ignore all the extra drafting crap, we do the triangles for solid geometry |
| 04:47.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that's not a very good sales pitch, Erik |
| 04:48.24 | louipc | NASA used BRL-CAD to send people to the moon. |
| 04:48.25 | ``Erik | heh, no, I'm not a sales person :D if it's just the solid stuff needed out of the dxf, we're right there for it... but if that meta-info is required, *shrug* we don't do that |
| 04:48.34 | louipc | fact |
| 04:48.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | the correct answer is "Yes, it is not only fully compatible, but better in every way, and if you disagree, we will refund your purchase price in full" |
| 04:49.09 | schwinn434 | didn't realize brlcad was so powerful |
| 04:49.12 | brlcad | ``Erik: it does import the 2D geometric entities now too (as sketches) |
| 04:49.18 | ``Erik | oh, neat |
| 04:49.21 | brlcad | g-dxf is the shizzle |
| 04:49.31 | brlcad | er, dxf-g :) |
| 04:49.31 | ``Erik | does it attempt to export the sketches, too |
| 04:49.33 | ``Erik | ? |
| 04:49.38 | brlcad | mm, doubt it |
| 04:49.45 | louipc | hmm |
| 04:49.53 | ``Erik | I looked through the source not TOO long ago and didn't see sketch shtuff :/ |
| 04:49.53 | brlcad | but maybe |
| 04:49.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | see, there ya go |
| 04:49.58 | louipc | schwinn434: I was joking :D |
| 04:50.10 | louipc | schwinn434: I don't know that for a fact |
| 04:50.32 | brlcad | it still doesn't import the non-geometric entities I believe and various attributes that have only to do with annotation |
| 04:50.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | begins working on sales literature and #ower#oint |
| 04:50.55 | brlcad | like an entity with a "stipple" attribute .. yeah, that's ignored and probably will stay that way |
| 04:51.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | que es "stipple" |
| 04:51.18 | brlcad | - - - - - - |
| 04:51.22 | louipc | hash marks? |
| 04:51.36 | ``Erik | I d'no, things like that could just be saved as named object pairs in the attribute tags |
| 04:51.43 | brlcad | means draw the wireframe and/or edges or whatever it's associated with using dashed lines instead of a solid line |
| 04:51.46 | louipc | oh hidden lines/centre lines, etc |
| 04:51.54 | ``Erik | wouldn't MEAN anything, but slightly less data lost |
| 04:52.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ahhh... drafting symbol stuff |
| 04:52.40 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is rendered irrelevant by the whole idea of CSG |
| 04:52.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | it only makes for pretty prints... |
| 04:53.25 | brlcad | it's irrelevant in most solid modeling systems |
| 04:53.33 | brlcad | very much a drafting feature |
| 04:53.37 | louipc | *hatching |
| 04:53.52 | Dr_Phreakenstein | which brings me to my idea of a print making utility, or something, to turn geometry nice draft |
| 04:54.07 | louipc | you need those marks if you're going to take a draft into the shop for sure |
| 04:54.10 | ``Erik | kinda sorta like rtedge does? |
| 04:54.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | geometry into nice draft |
| 04:54.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes |
| 04:54.20 | brlcad | enjoys some awesome home-cooked surf n' turf |
| 04:54.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | rtedge... |
| 04:54.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sorta |
| 04:54.49 | louipc | sounds good |
| 04:55.23 | Dr_Phreakenstein | would add dimmensions, 4 views, notes, specs, and |
| 04:55.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | GD&T |
| 04:55.35 | louipc | bill of materials |
| 04:55.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | perhaps |
| 04:55.51 | louipc | revisions |
| 04:55.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is too easy to do in favorite editor |
| 04:55.57 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes |
| 04:56.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | revisions is a good one |
| 04:56.07 | ``Erik | 4view is easy, dimensions could be glued on post-rendering, no? |
| 04:56.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i did it in openoffice |
| 04:56.29 | ``Erik | doesn't know what the behavior of sketch is in rtege O.o |
| 04:56.36 | louipc | you need bill of materials on the dwg, especially if it's an assembly |
| 04:56.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ok, i buy that |
| 04:57.22 | louipc | and dimensioning is a bit of an art. I couldn't trust a computer to always make the right decisions |
| 04:57.44 | ``Erik | for 'bill of materials', what exactly is the pertinent information? |
| 04:57.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no, should be manually editable, especially w/ tolerances |
| 04:57.59 | louipc | yea |
| 04:58.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is something that would deserve a fair bit of thought |
| 04:58.22 | louipc | ``Erik: tells you what the different parts are on the drawing |
| 04:58.46 | ``Erik | yes, but just a list of part numbers? or material and mass? or? :) |
| 04:59.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sources, prices, quantity |
| 04:59.06 | louipc | if it's a screw it will tell you what it's specs are, if it's a custom part it will give the part/dwg number |
| 04:59.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | perhaps mult. part numbers |
| 04:59.35 | Dr_Phreakenstein | assy/sub-assy numbers |
| 04:59.56 | ``Erik | soo, encode it into the geometries path, then a quick little scripts to massage the output of mged -c commands for a usable output? :) |
| 05:00.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | as in part numbers for vendor and client |
| 05:00.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | groups of parts for assy |
| 05:00.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | could work |
| 05:00.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | bye, schwinn |
| 05:01.36 | louipc | the most important part is always first ;) |
| 05:02.35 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ... also, notes about the construction, specs, or assembly of different parts, and a misc notes field to cover everything else |
| 05:02.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | here ya go... |
| 05:02.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | notes per part, and per drawing |
| 05:03.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is the easiest way to make it more generic |
| 05:03.53 | ``Erik | been 20 years since I've done drafting, and it was just an intro course, so nothing detailed :D I know the general format for electronics, but that sounds a bit differnet |
| 05:04.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | the new thing is geometric dimensioning and tolerancing |
| 05:04.31 | louipc | you can achieve the order by naming I guess |
| 05:04.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | just a set of symbols and a system for doing dimensions |
| 05:05.00 | louipc | 001.Main_Housing, 002.Drive_Shaft, 003.Bearing |
| 05:05.04 | ``Erik | or attribute abuse |
| 05:05.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 05:05.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | true |
| 05:06.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i would not mind if brlcad could do electronic stuff, too |
| 05:06.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sounds like a lot of work |
| 05:06.36 | ``Erik | talking to geda would probably be a better first stab O.o |
| 05:07.16 | Dr_Phreakenstein | but it would be handy to have it figure out size/shape of populated board, to see if it would fit housing |
| 05:07.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i like kicad |
| 05:07.59 | Dr_Phreakenstein | geda is decent, i have less experience with |
| 05:08.40 | Dr_Phreakenstein | actually, what i want, is a hammer that also saws, polishes, grinds, and drives threaded fasteners |
| 05:08.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ;) |
| 05:09.02 | ``Erik | I think they call those shops |
| 05:09.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | if it had a soldering attachment, so much the better |
| 05:09.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ok, you win |
| 05:09.18 | louipc | oh sweet. 3d view |
| 05:09.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | from a hammer? |
| 05:10.25 | louipc | kicad |
| 05:10.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | what i meant was that it would be cool to have an "everything cad" system, but i understand why that would not always work |
| 05:10.57 | Dr_Phreakenstein | upgrades kicad to latest |
| 05:19.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hmmm... i will have to talk to those guys, see if they can export 3d data to a file brlcad can read |
| 05:19.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that would be nice! |
| 05:20.12 | brlcad | too much manpower and lack of development focus to attempt to support too many domains at once, there's more than enough work to just support one or two domains |
| 05:21.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i understand that, i meant make kicad export to .g |
| 05:21.04 | brlcad | solid modeling is top-priority followed closely behind by either drafting or mcad needs (or the features that overlap both domains) |
| 05:21.22 | brlcad | that would be pretty easy |
| 05:21.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | exactly |
| 05:21.58 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hey, you guys have any debugging for me today? |
| 05:22.23 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i am not much of a programmer, but i can do that |
| 05:22.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | "I can strace like nobody's business!" |
| 05:23.26 | brlcad | I think the main problems were sorted out earlier today |
| 05:23.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | still learning to work w/ you guys |
| 05:23.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | k |
| 05:23.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sorry to say, i should have pointed some stuff out i found in my trace |
| 05:23.54 | brlcad | now just have a lot of grunt-work moving and repairs to take care of |
| 05:24.42 | Dr_Phreakenstein | looks like i could have saved some hours, not sure. i saw stuff last night that you guys discussed this morning |
| 05:30.57 | brlcad | Dr_Phreakenstein: actually your lead last night helped |
| 05:31.08 | brlcad | helped a lot, thanks |
| 05:32.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | glad to contrib... |
| 05:33.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | don't be afraid to throw problems at me... |
| 05:33.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | this way we can both learn what i can do, and i can learn at all |
| 05:34.03 | Dr_Phreakenstein | eg this morning was my first experience w/ gdb |
| 05:34.28 | louipc | do you do any programming? |
| 05:34.47 | brlcad | if you have an app with debugging symbols, gdb is actually pretty easy to learn |
| 05:34.51 | brlcad | at least most of the basics |
| 05:34.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not yet, but i can fumble through bash and python |
| 05:35.08 | Dr_Phreakenstein | so i saw |
| 05:35.13 | louipc | aww, same here :/ |
| 05:35.18 | Dr_Phreakenstein | always thought it would be way harder |
| 05:35.32 | louipc | so that's why you don't use vi or emacs yet ;) |
| 05:35.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 05:35.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | perhaps |
| 05:36.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | although, in my defense, my main use of kde is that it gives me konsole, a nice way to have more terminals |
| 05:36.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | terminals with a scrollbar |
| 05:37.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and unlimited scrollback buffer |
| 05:37.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | with search |
| 05:37.46 | louipc | hmm yeah sometimes I'd like more scrollback |
| 05:37.55 | louipc | but it's usually because I wasn't paying attention |
| 05:38.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | here is a tip to help many things... |
| 05:39.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | # hey, let's get a decent terminal speed now. |
| 05:39.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | if tty|grep -v tty > /dev/null ; then |
| 05:39.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.12 | Dr_Phreakenstein | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.15 | Dr_Phreakenstein | fi |
| 05:39.19 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is in my ~/.bashrc |
| 05:39.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | believe it ornot, that speeds up compiles |
| 05:40.11 | louipc | hmmm |
| 05:41.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | but it will often break plain console, thus else |
| 05:41.40 | Dr_Phreakenstein | try #time cat hugefile.txt before and after |
| 05:42.21 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i do not remember how i discovered that |
| 05:42.25 | louipc | can my PIII handle 4000000? |
| 05:42.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes |
| 05:42.33 | louipc | sweet |
| 05:42.45 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i looked in linux kernel source, and that is mak |
| 05:42.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | max |
| 05:42.54 | louipc | cool |
| 05:43.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | used it on my PIII toughbook |
| 05:43.11 | louipc | pro tip. thx |
| 05:43.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | np, you prob will not find that online |
| 05:44.39 | Dr_Phreakenstein | also, i use make with "-j 17 -iks --no-print-directory" |
| 05:45.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i means ignore errors, k means keep going. those are dangerous, but others add speed |
| 05:45.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | every write to stdout blocks, so it cannot compile any faster than that... |
| 05:45.57 | Dr_Phreakenstein | so i tell it not to send as much output |
| 05:46.20 | louipc | true |
| 05:47.12 | Dr_Phreakenstein | however, i do break a lot of stuff, so take my uber-tweaking tips w/ NaCl |
| 05:47.14 | louipc | I guess I really need to work on getting all the 3rd party libraries installed separately from brl-cad |
| 05:47.24 | Dr_Phreakenstein | stty is well tested on many boxes, though |
| 05:47.28 | louipc | if I don't have to compile them it will dramatically help |
| 05:47.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | true |
| 05:47.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | what distro? |
| 05:47.46 | louipc | arch |
| 05:48.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | gentoo derivitave, iirc |
| 05:48.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ? |
| 05:48.20 | louipc | LFS derivative if anything |
| 05:48.27 | louipc | inspired by CRUX |
| 05:48.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ahhh |
| 05:48.56 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sorry, so many, i get mixed |
| 05:49.00 | louipc | binary packages, rolling release |
| 05:49.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | cool |
| 05:49.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i will say, gentoo has given me *much* compiling and resolution experience |
| 05:49.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | too much? |
| 05:50.10 | louipc | now that I don't have to compile everything I can actually do some hacking :D |
| 05:50.20 | louipc | yeah I used to use gentoo |
| 05:50.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | slaps on gentoo bumper sticker that reads "I'd rather be compiling" |
| 05:51.01 | Dr_Phreakenstein | can't argue there |
| 06:57.09 | yukonbob | Dr_Phreakenstein: how many CPU cores do you have at your disposal? |
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| 06:58.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | 4 |
| 06:59.20 | yukonbob | why do you "-j 17" for your make, then? |
| 06:59.24 | Dr_Phreakenstein | 2proc, dual core, 2.4gHz |
| 06:59.32 | yukonbob | I'd think 5 is about the max you'd require... |
| 06:59.40 | yukonbob | 4 on, 1 on stand-by |
| 06:59.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | j= core *4 + 1 |
| 07:00.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | also have 8 gigs ram |
| 07:00.31 | yukonbob | but that "parallelism" isn't really parallel if they're just being swapped around the cores ;) |
| 07:00.42 | yukonbob | ...and that's not free, either. |
| 07:01.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i forget, but i researched it at one point, and that is what i arrived at |
| 07:01.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | somehow, it gave the best performance in test case |
| 07:02.01 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ahhh, that may have been when i had a slower hd |
| 07:02.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | even now, i am mostly io-restricted |
| 07:02.46 | yukonbob | nods |
| 07:03.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i did not believe it, either, thought it was insane, but it seems to work |
| 07:03.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and on gentoo, i do a little compiling ;) |
| 07:07.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | also, -j 17 is no good w/out my stty optimizations |
| 07:16.09 | Ralith | I'd think that -j 17 is no good without four quadcores, too. |
| 07:16.46 | Ralith | the rule I've always hear is ncpu+1 |
| 07:16.51 | Ralith | heard* |
| 07:17.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | fair enough, especially for a sys that is better balanced than mine |
| 07:18.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | depends on cache and scheduler, too, but that is getting pretty deep, and for specific cases |
| 07:18.55 | Ralith | I suppose ultimately you're best off just trial-and-erroring your way up until performance starts to drop again |
| 07:19.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, that is how i got where i am |
| 07:19.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | problem is, i only tested it for certain things |
| 07:20.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | mainly just to emerge a short list of programs |
| 07:20.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | wonder how it would be affected by ccache |
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| 10:06.46 | d-lo | likes ubuntu :) |
| 10:22.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not a bad choice |
| 10:22.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | you are up early |
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| 11:46.13 | d-lo | not really. Thats my normal 'up' time. |
| 11:46.51 | d-lo | Wake @0400-0415. On the road to work by 0500. Arrive @ work 0600-0615. |
| 11:49.13 | d-lo | I was very impressed by Ubuntu. I have basically done a 'out of box test' of FC10 vs ubuntu. |
| 11:50.16 | d-lo | and Ubuntu wins hands down. I had to install only 2 drivers not included with the base install to make myt Dell 1505 lappy work at 100%... although I haven't tested the graphics driver yet. |
| 12:01.21 | Dr_Phreakenstein | nice |
| 12:01.49 | d-lo | gonna put on wine this evening and fire up Civ4 and a few others ;) |
| 12:01.58 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 12:02.23 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i have tetris and minehunt on my HP calculator... |
| 12:02.35 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is about as much gaming as i do |
| 12:03.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | makes my professor seem less verbose |
| 12:03.08 | d-lo | tetris rules. |
| 12:03.25 | d-lo | what class? |
| 12:08.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | well, i only have 3 instructors, as it is a small dept |
| 12:09.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that one teaches CNC mill, and inspection II |
| 12:09.57 | d-lo | kewl. |
| 12:10.10 | _sushi_ | what is the inspection about |
| 12:10.11 | d-lo | did you get all that gear Hauled successfully? |
| 12:10.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | they are all really smart, but that guy can really get going |
| 12:10.19 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yup |
| 12:10.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | somehow (lots of prayer) i am still alive |
| 12:11.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not to preach (i hate that), but that was really a faith-building experience |
| 12:11.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | too much wind load for my caravan |
| 12:11.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | terrible trailer |
| 12:12.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ratchet straps rubbing on tires |
| 12:12.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no good strapdown points |
| 12:12.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and those that there were had iffy welds that were bending under the stress |
| 12:13.00 | d-lo | heh, sounds like the stuff 'good stories' are made of eh? |
| 12:13.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | engine redlined or plain ran out of steam on hills |
| 12:13.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) indeed |
| 12:13.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | oh, and i drove 800 miles on 2 hrs of sleep |
| 12:13.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | maxed out debit card, so could not get gas... |
| 12:14.01 | Dr_Phreakenstein | mad it home with about 1 pint, no joke |
| 12:14.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | gauge said i was getting 4-5 mpg on hills |
| 12:15.00 | d-lo | you must *really* love that gear :D |
| 12:16.04 | Dr_Phreakenstein | uh-huh! |
| 12:16.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | too bad it is still in driveway |
| 12:16.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no room in garage |
| 12:16.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | oh, and i came out about even vs shipping |
| 12:16.45 | d-lo | where is it going to go? (Ultimately) |
| 12:16.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | however, now i have a hitch and wiring |
| 12:17.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | well, i have to move to a different house... this is funny |
| 12:17.27 | d-lo | hell, you gotta move it all again? |
| 12:17.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i have a wife+3 kids, right (ages 1, 2, 3)... |
| 12:17.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | well, it is still on trailer, and this time will be a shorter drive |
| 12:17.52 | d-lo | Woot! You got me beat! (mine are 5,4,2.5) |
| 12:18.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, 375 and 383 days apart |
| 12:18.18 | d-lo | niceness. |
| 12:18.38 | d-lo | 379 stdev 4 |
| 12:18.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | so, we are planning on moving into my mother-in-law's garage, after renovation |
| 12:18.56 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 12:19.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | cool :) |
| 12:19.15 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that thing is 40*24' |
| 12:19.17 | d-lo | 15 months between my first 2 and 21 between the last two. works out to 15 days shy of exactly 36 months :) |
| 12:19.37 | d-lo | 'Moving into garage' as in the family? or the gear? |
| 12:19.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | with a wall across 24' width, 15' from back |
| 12:19.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | everything |
| 12:20.03 | Dr_Phreakenstein | shop in front, family in smaller space |
| 12:20.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | will share bath and kitchen with bigger house to avoid legal and bldg permit hassle |
| 12:21.09 | d-lo | Now that I have all 3 pairs of little feet storming up and down the steps in a 3 story townhome.... I am begining to covet a studio style layout :/ |
| 12:21.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | there is that... |
| 12:21.37 | d-lo | good call on the legal. |
| 12:21.52 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i am in townhome, lack sufficient electricity and garage space |
| 12:22.38 | d-lo | I can't remember... is this just a hobby, or a hobby turning into a bidness? |
| 12:22.39 | Dr_Phreakenstein | as in computer, 3 printers, workbench, aircompressor, lamps, room lights, and some house outlets on 20amps |
| 12:23.03 | Dr_Phreakenstein | compressor trips brks, and my UPS squawks, plus i lose light |
| 12:23.07 | d-lo | 20 or 200? |
| 12:23.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hobby-to bus |
| 12:23.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | 20 amps |
| 12:23.47 | d-lo | ...your whole townhome is served by a 20 amp feed?!? |
| 12:24.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | never mind hooking up my rack, with those computers |
| 12:24.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no, just all the big stuff |
| 12:24.42 | d-lo | whats the main house feed? 100A or 200A service? |
| 12:24.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | it has 4 20 amp circuits for most everything (save stove, etc), but all lights and outlets |
| 12:25.19 | d-lo | (are we talking about your townhome or the MIL's garage?) |
| 12:26.06 | _sushi_ | Hey how dangerous is the 120VAC> |
| 12:26.08 | Dr_Phreakenstein | current place... not sure of total, no main brkr in panel |
| 12:26.13 | _sushi_ | If you touch it are you gonna die? |
| 12:26.19 | Dr_Phreakenstein | only deadly,y? |
| 12:26.23 | _sushi_ | Should be less dangerous than the European 230 |
| 12:26.42 | Dr_Phreakenstein | only takes 10 mAh through heart |
| 12:26.46 | d-lo | 120Vac can kill you... 230 can kill you...440 can kill you dead.... but then again, so can a 9V or AA battery :) |
| 12:27.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | lowest known lethality was 30vdc |
| 12:27.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | for exocution |
| 12:27.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that must have been agonizing |
| 12:27.55 | _sushi_ | tickled to death? |
| 12:28.12 | d-lo | 0.001a person killed themselves with a multimeter (powered by a 9V) |
| 12:28.15 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i have been bitten by 15kv, but low current. it only sucked |
| 12:28.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that takes some talent! |
| 12:28.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | death by fluke |
| 12:28.52 | _sushi_ | Must have rammed the measuring points directly into his heart |
| 12:28.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | pardon pun |
| 12:29.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | aided with brine solution, to improve conductivity |
| 12:29.27 | d-lo | put it on Ohms, and jabbed a lead in each index finger. 9V/resistance of blood = enough amperage to pop his heart. |
| 12:29.39 | d-lo | ded |
| 12:29.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no, MIL place, i will install my own dedicated power |
| 12:29.46 | _sushi_ | did the heart make a popping sound? |
| 12:30.00 | d-lo | I imagine you could do the same thing with a 1.5V batter if you wanted. |
| 12:30.18 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sounds like wasted talent |
| 12:30.19 | d-lo | _sushi_: dunno, but I imagine not. |
| 12:30.28 | d-lo | Darwinism in full effect |
| 12:31.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | nice |
| 12:31.39 | _sushi_ | did he suffer from darwinism? |
| 12:31.50 | _sushi_ | I made a 50V power supply for my optical receiver |
| 12:31.53 | _sushi_ | Is it lethal then? |
| 12:31.54 | d-lo | seemingly so ;) |
| 12:32.13 | d-lo | Voltage isn't lethal, its the current that the voltage develops that is. |
| 12:32.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | <_sushi_>: what you must know is that here in US, we do everything possible to protect such persons from themselves |
| 12:32.49 | d-lo | ...and we shouldn't :/ |
| 12:33.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | but every now and again, you get someone really determined, which results in those sorts of stories, more laws, and greater national debt |
| 12:34.12 | d-lo | not that you're bitter or anything :) |
| 12:34.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not to sound cruel, but if you do not buckle up, and you crash, hey, we just should not pay the bill. sorry, dude. the car had seatbelts, since what, 1968, maybe sooner? |
| 12:34.49 | _sushi_ | Hmm you need 300-500mA DC to cause fibrilation |
| 12:35.03 | _sushi_ | My power supply is designed for about 100uA current |
| 12:35.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | get a cap |
| 12:35.15 | d-lo | fib is usually only incuded by AC current.... |
| 12:35.25 | _sushi_ | But since it's mounted on a roof person touching it accidentally could be shocked and fall from the roof |
| 12:35.33 | _sushi_ | I should still put a warning sign there is 50V inside |
| 12:36.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | or mount it to car... excellent anti-theft |
| 12:36.02 | d-lo | 0.1mA makes a muscle twitch, 1.0mA causes physical pain, and 10mA causes death. |
| 12:36.24 | _sushi_ | d-lo: where do you have 10mA from? |
| 12:36.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | figures 1 A should do it |
| 12:36.35 | d-lo | eh? |
| 12:36.42 | _sushi_ | d-lo: source URL? |
| 12:36.53 | _sushi_ | I don't believe the story with the battery |
| 12:37.04 | d-lo | training. In my past life, I was an electrician. |
| 12:37.04 | _sushi_ | I would believe the one with 30V if properly contacted |
| 12:37.08 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i have electronics pocket ref, and it says 10mA |
| 12:37.25 | _sushi_ | for AC? |
| 12:37.31 | _sushi_ | And how much for DC? My supply is DC |
| 12:38.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | any 10 mA |
| 12:38.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | DC-purple |
| 12:38.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | your body is pretty efficient as electricity is only signal, not motive power |
| 12:39.06 | alex_joni | any voltage/current pair is lethal with the right set of electrodes |
| 12:39.10 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33749 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ (Combination.cpp Object.cpp): moved resource pointer memory management into Object class |
| 12:39.24 | alex_joni | almost any ;) |
| 12:39.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yup |
| 12:39.42 | d-lo | Worst case senario: A person is tired, cold, naked and wet... their body resistance is about 300 ohms. If it takes 100mA to kill that person (300ohms / .1 = 30) then a mere 30V applied to the person will kil them |
| 12:40.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | there ya go |
| 12:40.59 | d-lo | i was forgetful in my numbers (1mA moves a muscle, 10mA = pain and 100mA causes death) but that is average... each person is different. |
| 12:41.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | remember, that 10mA has to go through heart, and it is too hard to predict path through a body, so much current may be wasted |
| 12:41.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | "wasted" |
| 12:41.58 | d-lo | anyways, blood is about the same resistance as water... nearly zero, so if you take a 9V battery: 9V/.001ohms = 9000A.... yeah, that'll kill ya. |
| 12:42.17 | _sushi_ | lol |
| 12:42.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | -internal resistance of cell... still lethal |
| 12:42.35 | d-lo | and .001 ohms is very very generous |
| 12:43.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | so don't play with electrons, kids |
| 12:43.33 | _sushi_ | hmm when I take 12V into sweaty hand and press hard then I can make 0.12mA |
| 12:43.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | one day, i walked past and outlet... |
| 12:43.37 | d-lo | heh, well, at least don't stab yourself with live electrical leads. |
| 12:43.51 | _sushi_ | I don't think my blood has 1mOhm |
| 12:44.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i was a bit alarmed to see my favorite klein screwdriver sticking straight out of the outlet |
| 12:44.07 | d-lo | _sushi_: exactly... ever wonder why your car battery is only 12V but can knock you on your ass? :) |
| 12:44.14 | _sushi_ | 10 kOhm |
| 12:44.16 | Dr_Phreakenstein | thankfully, from the ground |
| 12:44.33 | d-lo | oh dear... kiddo get a hold of it? |
| 12:44.33 | _sushi_ | d-lo: never heard about car battery knocking anyone |
| 12:45.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i guess... trying to be like me and "fix" stuff |
| 12:45.10 | d-lo | _sushi_: well grab both the + and - sides of your car battery sometime and you'll find out. |
| 12:45.13 | d-lo | :) |
| 12:45.35 | _sushi_ | d-lo: 120uA and I don't feel anything |
| 12:45.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | better yet, place wrench carefully across terminals... |
| 12:45.49 | _sushi_ | wrench != body |
| 12:46.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no, but lead acid can arc weld |
| 12:46.08 | _sushi_ | they are made from very different material |
| 12:46.16 | d-lo | Dr_Phreakenstein: Lol, yeah.. did that during my first carstereo install... scared the life outta me. |
| 12:46.30 | _sushi_ | d-lo: never welded before? |
| 12:47.03 | d-lo | _sushi_: 120uA is .000120 amps... we are talking .001, .01 and .1 amps.... several magnitudes difference |
| 12:47.20 | d-lo | _sushi_: yes, several times... but on purpose. |
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| 12:47.43 | d-lo | the wrench on the terminals was an accident and not expected. |
| 12:48.05 | d-lo | thus, scarey. |
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| 12:49.27 | d-lo | besides, if you have a 50Vdc power supply and the load on it is only drawing 120uA... that in no way means that the 50Vdc p/s can't be shorted to ground and draw lethal current.... |
| 12:49.52 | d-lo | the general rule of thumb is anything around or over 30Vdc should have a warning sign of some sort... |
| 12:51.04 | _sushi_ | d-lo: what I said if I connect my sqeaty hands across 12V and press down hard, I get only 120uA |
| 12:51.37 | _sushi_ | That shows my body resistance with sweaty hands and pressing down hard is 10 kOhm |
| 12:51.48 | _sushi_ | If you take 30V and 10kOhm, you get 0.3mA |
| 12:52.01 | _sushi_ | You need 300mA to be lethal, still 3 oderrs of magnitude are missing. |
| 12:52.27 | _sushi_ | oh no, 100kOhm! |
| 12:52.34 | d-lo | ...just curious.. but where are you getting this 120uA measure from? |
| 12:52.42 | _sushi_ | from an ampmeter |
| 12:53.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hey, if we stop hearing from you during these tests, what is the local number to call ambulance in your area? |
| 12:53.16 | d-lo | lol |
| 12:53.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and where should we send 'em? |
| 12:53.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 12:54.30 | d-lo | multimeter or ammeter of a 12V power supply? |
| 12:55.26 | _sushi_ | d-lo: multimeter, at 40mA range |
| 12:55.38 | _sushi_ | Now I was able to make 500uA, but I had to press so hard that it was painful |
| 12:56.16 | d-lo | 10K sounds about right for normal situation hand to hand resistance. |
| 12:56.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ....which is a good reminder of when to stop |
| 12:56.38 | _sushi_ | Dr_Phreakenstein: the pain was from pressing, not from the current |
| 12:56.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i know that, point still stands |
| 12:57.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i am not afraid of electricity, but i have never intentionally shocked myself, ammeter or otherwise |
| 12:57.49 | _sushi_ | I Once put 16V AC across my skull when I was a kid |
| 12:58.00 | _sushi_ | I could see dim white flickering light in my peripheral vision |
| 12:58.02 | brlcad | heh, 'splains a lot, don't it |
| 12:58.08 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i do not want to be on record as encouraging this sor of thing |
| 12:58.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 12:58.14 | _sushi_ | Across the temples. From the model train supply. |
| 12:58.15 | d-lo | get both hands 'sweaty', grab two metal pipes and then check your body resistance. |
| 12:58.22 | d-lo | lol |
| 12:58.38 | d-lo | should get about 1k-5k |
| 12:58.57 | Dr_Phreakenstein | again, there is the idea of stopping while ahead |
| 12:59.03 | _sushi_ | Sounds like you have to be a pretty good contortionist to actually kill yourself with domestic voltage |
| 12:59.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | or less behind |
| 12:59.44 | _sushi_ | Then I got scared that maybe I killed some cells in my brain with that current and now I become retarded |
| 12:59.59 | Dr_Phreakenstein | has no comment |
| 13:01.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | thinks not to remind these guys of ethanol... a great brain-cell-icicide |
| 13:01.12 | d-lo | not really _sushi_ : A person just gets done washing dishes. They see the toaster is still plugged in and lean over to umplug it. One hand on the metal sink(wet) the other hand grabs the plus. They overreach a tad and a finger slips around and hits the hot prong as its coming out of the wall... with both hands wet and one hand on a good grounding point... zap. can easily be killed. |
| 13:01.28 | d-lo | plus = plug |
| 13:01.49 | _sushi_ | d-lo: I think US should get their plug design fixed |
| 13:02.11 | d-lo | has nothing to do with plug design... electricity is still electricity. |
| 13:02.24 | _sushi_ | It has - the European plug doesn't allow you to touch hot parts |
| 13:02.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ?!!! |
| 13:02.34 | d-lo | its very easy to get shocked... especially when you don't know the dangers involved. |
| 13:02.38 | Dr_Phreakenstein | which one? |
| 13:02.53 | _sushi_ | British, Czech,/// |
| 13:02.56 | Dr_Phreakenstein | the round pin ones that always arc and fall out of socket? |
| 13:03.28 | _sushi_ | But seriously the US plug is a major health hazard |
| 13:03.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | british plug design is good, but fails in implementation. |
| 13:03.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i used to replace about 5-10 a day |
| 13:04.18 | _sushi_ | You can half insert it and then touch the hot one with your finger |
| 13:04.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | have fun with that |
| 13:05.18 | Dr_Phreakenstein | oh, and those switches in the outlets... brilliant idea, really |
| 13:05.35 | Dr_Phreakenstein | except that they always weld together |
| 13:05.40 | d-lo | Dr_Phreakenstein: agreed. |
| 13:06.42 | Dr_Phreakenstein | <_sushi_>: hate to say, but outside of Brittain, British electrical equipment has a poor reputation. can anyone say Lucas? |
| 13:07.04 | Dr_Phreakenstein | 7 fuses in series to power a car stereo |
| 13:07.18 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no reason for that |
| 13:07.28 | d-lo | the US plug is by no means the safest... but there is a trade off there. the number of electrical related deaths is pretty low. |
| 13:07.38 | Dr_Phreakenstein | indeed |
| 13:07.58 | d-lo | Dr_Phreakenstein: Well,if you want to make absolutely damned sure that the stereo has overcurrent protection... |
| 13:08.12 | Dr_Phreakenstein | what we are saying is, though there is plenty of anger, actual incidence of death is low |
| 13:08.16 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 13:08.32 | _sushi_ | Look at the US plug it has all-metal contacts and the area around the socket is flat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Domestic_AC_Type_B_USA.jpg |
| 13:08.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | I should have charged a lot more for that job |
| 13:09.03 | _sushi_ | If you insert halfway you can still touch the hot prong. I have tested that myself witha plug we have here. Checked with a multimeter that there is a contact, and that I can touch with a finger. |
| 13:09.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes, familiar w/ those units |
| 13:09.07 | d-lo | heh, I am well aware of what the US socket looks like :) |
| 13:09.35 | d-lo | _sushi_: Yes... and? |
| 13:09.52 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is why we do not conduct such tests, we already have a good idea what will happen... |
| 13:10.04 | Dr_Phreakenstein | how good is that GFCI? |
| 13:10.11 | _sushi_ | The Euro plug has an elevated area around the socket, preventing a finger access when half-inserted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C_plug.jpg |
| 13:10.38 | d-lo | not that I will admit anything Dr_Phreakenstein , but gfci is pretty good protection :) |
| 13:11.03 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes, but i have a policy to not tempt fate |
| 13:11.30 | d-lo | _sushi_: yes, there are US receptical coverplates that perform the exact same function. |
| 13:11.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | especially since so many things are made in, shall we say, poorly regulated corners of earth |
| 13:11.46 | _sushi_ | The British plug has part of the hot prongs insulated, so you cannot get into contact with lethal voltage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:G_plug.png |
| 13:11.59 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not all of them are so made |
| 13:12.08 | d-lo | Whats sooooo wrong with the lowest bidder? They need to make a living too! |
| 13:12.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and they do |
| 13:12.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | we just do not touch live conductors, live to see another day |
| 13:13.25 | d-lo | _sushi_: and the trade off is that the surface area in which current can conduct is reduced... thus rasing current density and lowering the life of the connection. Its a trade off. |
| 13:13.42 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that is y kitchen appliance plugs are so short... it will unplug rather than stay on while causing injury |
| 13:14.10 | d-lo | aka, the G_plug is rated at 13A whereas the US standard is rated to 15A, sometimes 20A |
| 13:14.40 | _sushi_ | But the G plug has higher voltage therefore you can get even higher power |
| 13:15.02 | _sushi_ | According to my opinions The US plugs shouldn't be used with more than 48V |
| 13:15.40 | _sushi_ | they are low voltage plug, then don't offer any protection against accidental contact with live conductor |
| 13:15.44 | d-lo | true. but us sockets are rated to 230V... although they only carry 110-130. |
| 13:15.48 | _sushi_ | Like banana plugs. |
| 13:16.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | or some other euro plugs |
| 13:16.26 | _sushi_ | Some of the Swiss have the same problem as the US ones |
| 13:16.35 | d-lo | _sushi_: Some sockets have the female portion of the contactors recessed. Serves the same function as the G_plug but also invokes the same limitatiosn. |
| 13:16.37 | _sushi_ | Also all-metal conductor and no elevated area |
| 13:17.19 | _sushi_ | d-lo: I disagree that having a recessed socket invokes any electrical limitation |
| 13:17.47 | Dr_Phreakenstein | in fairness, US design is quite old, and people do not want to retrofit. but we have one standard for our primary outlets, an advantage over continental europe where poor adapters can lead to hazards |
| 13:18.32 | _sushi_ | US is one state, whereas Europe isn't |
| 13:18.41 | _sushi_ | Within each state you also have one standard |
| 13:18.42 | Dr_Phreakenstein | um, 50 states |
| 13:18.47 | d-lo | _sushi_: not the recessed socket, the insulated prongs of the G-plug. Some us sockets have recessed electrical contacts (while the face of the socket stays the same) thus, also, reducing the contact area. thats the comparison I was making. |
| 13:18.50 | _sushi_ | Or one country |
| 13:19.24 | d-lo | heh, one of the few times anything has been standardized sucessfully :/ |
| 13:19.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | like the metric sys... congress made it official |
| 13:19.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | in 1896 |
| 13:20.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | or 1898, i forget |
| 13:20.05 | _sushi_ | lol |
| 13:20.14 | d-lo | long story short, there are pros and cons to each design. neither is superior. |
| 13:20.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | you can see where that went |
| 13:20.25 | _sushi_ | btw how much is a pint? |
| 13:20.29 | d-lo | also likes metric. Dividing and multiplying by 10 is much easier. |
| 13:20.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i have to buy 2 sets of tools to work on even one car |
| 13:21.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i am used to metric from cycling, but even there, certain things are spec'd in inches |
| 13:21.20 | d-lo | 9/16th or half... wtf? Neither? Damn it, its a 13mm.... |
| 13:21.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | 1 pair of chain links is 1 inch when new |
| 13:21.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 13:21.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | story of my life |
| 13:22.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | certain bearings may literally have inch OD, metric ID |
| 13:22.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ?!!! |
| 13:22.47 | d-lo | heh, now thats stupid. |
| 13:22.52 | Dr_Phreakenstein | who thought of that! |
| 13:23.04 | d-lo | hopefully someone who is now unemployed. |
| 13:23.12 | _sushi_ | 10mm inner diameter and 10inch outer? |
| 13:23.18 | d-lo | lol |
| 13:23.29 | d-lo | thats a badass bearing! |
| 13:23.47 | Dr_Phreakenstein | more like 1.5 inch OD, 25mm ID, or so |
| 13:23.47 | _sushi_ | wouldn't work |
| 13:23.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sure it would |
| 13:24.00 | _sushi_ | but 1cm inner and 1in out could work |
| 13:24.04 | d-lo | ~9" diameter ballbearings for a <10mm shaft...lol |
| 13:24.29 | d-lo | i dub it... the 'Compensation Bearing" |
| 13:24.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 13:24.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | heh, just got second part |
| 13:25.02 | Dr_Phreakenstein | need to sleep |
| 13:25.08 | d-lo | "For when your bearing *can* be huge when it doesn't need to..." |
| 13:25.17 | d-lo | nighty night! |
| 13:25.28 | Dr_Phreakenstein | o, i still gotta finish H/W |
| 13:25.40 | d-lo | well get to is slacker! |
| 13:25.48 | d-lo | edit: well get to it slacker! |
| 13:25.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | looking at 24 oz rockstar, viso, and chai |
| 13:26.03 | d-lo | careful with that energy drink stuff...... |
| 13:26.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | all 2/3 gone |
| 13:26.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, fries nerves |
| 13:26.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | takes calcium from bones and teeth |
| 13:26.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | leads to diabetes and blood pressure problems |
| 13:26.52 | d-lo | I have to back off the Mt Dew... I randomly make strange noises and/or scream at brlcad. I think he's scared of me... |
| 13:26.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | makes me want to smoke |
| 13:26.59 | brlcad | heh |
| 13:27.15 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i was up to 2 liters a day of that stuff |
| 13:27.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | for 3 yrs |
| 13:27.30 | d-lo | brlcad: did you get your requisite 4 hrs down? |
| 13:27.49 | brlcad | yeah, and then some after a hard workout last night.. sore |
| 13:27.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | actually, they started making 3L bottles, and i would have one a day for a month or so |
| 13:28.17 | d-lo | I bet your pancreas hates you... |
| 13:28.24 | Dr_Phreakenstein | btw, it does not have effect that urban legend says |
| 13:28.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, probably |
| 13:29.11 | d-lo | well good. I thought I was crazy living on 5-6 hrs aday... when I heard you say " i only need 4! " I was sceptical... |
| 13:29.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i was telling brlcad about polyphasic sleep... d-lo should try, too |
| 13:30.01 | Dr_Phreakenstein | only 3hrs per day |
| 13:30.02 | d-lo | well, you best get to that homework before you sugar crash. |
| 13:30.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | too late |
| 13:30.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i crashed and rebounded |
| 13:30.45 | d-lo | when I was in the Navy on the sub, we shifted to 18 hour days... thats an awesome schedule. Up for 13-14, down for 4-5. |
| 13:30.54 | d-lo | *that* works like a champ. |
| 13:31.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | nice |
| 13:32.06 | d-lo | I tried it when I wasn't underway though.... doesn't work so well when you can see the sun. |
| 13:32.23 | Dr_Phreakenstein | how about in hacker cave? |
| 13:32.32 | d-lo | brlcad: you got a membership to a gym somehwere or do you do it all at home? |
| 13:32.42 | d-lo | has no hacker cave. |
| 13:33.02 | d-lo | has children that find him anyways no matter where he hides |
| 13:33.21 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i got a sawzall and a shovel that'll fix that |
| 13:33.32 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, me, too |
| 13:33.36 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i love 'em |
| 13:34.06 | brlcad | doesn't believe in working out from home |
| 13:34.09 | brlcad | at least it's not for me |
| 13:34.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | says that some people work, some people work out |
| 13:34.42 | brlcad | just not sustainably effective -- too convenient and easy to get accustomed to ignoring |
| 13:34.43 | d-lo | brlcad: Thats cool. What's your reasoning? |
| 13:34.59 | d-lo | (if your dont mind me asking) |
| 13:35.10 | d-lo | is having a *very* bad typing day :/ |
| 13:35.34 | brlcad | works for some (very few), but I mostly find that it's just too convenient |
| 13:35.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | must be contagious |
| 13:35.56 | brlcad | there are so many other things in the house that can always take attention, and be more entertaining even |
| 13:36.05 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hmmm |
| 13:36.30 | brlcad | whereas physically going to the gym is a separate event in itself, a place you go to get something done |
| 13:36.59 | Dr_Phreakenstein | only thing that works for me is cycling (contrived destination), or, certain "partner assisted" cardio events |
| 13:36.59 | d-lo | ah, so its a mental conditioning thing... gotcha. |
| 13:37.13 | d-lo | hence, 3 kids. |
| 13:37.15 | d-lo | :P |
| 13:37.17 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 13:37.20 | brlcad | plus just the social aspect of working out with others working out can help sustain that conditioning, get you past the ruts |
| 13:37.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and a vascectomy |
| 13:37.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | cool, glad that works for you |
| 13:37.49 | d-lo | great, they just issued a 50mph wind warning.... $5 says I lose power at work :/ |
| 13:38.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i just lost pwr here... alarm at 7-11 just shut off |
| 13:38.20 | brlcad | yeah, I heard that last night .. that should be fun |
| 13:38.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | even the telco RT reset |
| 13:38.29 | brlcad | should have a betting pool on which trees fall |
| 13:38.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | mark 'em w/ different colors of spraypaint like BLM |
| 13:39.08 | d-lo | was having fun doing an obstical course all the way to work. The Jeep Patriot handles much better than he thought! |
| 13:39.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ..."there's only one!" |
| 13:39.47 | Dr_Phreakenstein | what state is this in, MD? |
| 13:39.48 | d-lo | oh dear... anything fall on the new ride brlcad ? |
| 13:40.03 | d-lo | Dr_Phreakenstein: Damned skippy! Yes, Work in MD, live in PA. |
| 13:40.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | fun |
| 13:40.27 | d-lo | 1 hour commute through Amish country :) |
| 13:40.46 | Dr_Phreakenstein | you east coasters are why america uses so much gas |
| 13:40.49 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ;) |
| 13:40.59 | d-lo | heh. |
| 13:41.02 | d-lo | tell em about it. |
| 13:41.07 | Dr_Phreakenstein | things are more spread out here, but we have shorter commutes, go figure |
| 13:41.22 | Dr_Phreakenstein | except much of CA |
| 13:41.22 | d-lo | but I wasn't about to drop 2.5x the money for a house just to live in MD. |
| 13:41.29 | d-lo | grew up in AZ. |
| 13:41.37 | d-lo | knows spread out. |
| 13:41.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not to say i blame you at all |
| 13:42.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | just stay away from Maricopa Cty sherrif! |
| 13:42.16 | d-lo | What I bought in PA for $130k was going for $280k(ish) in MD |
| 13:42.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | pink jumpsuits and all |
| 13:42.27 | d-lo | I still have my pinik boxers lol. |
| 13:42.33 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 13:42.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | nice |
| 13:42.51 | d-lo | "Sherrif Joe busted my ass" on the back... priceless. |
| 13:43.31 | d-lo | If I could work a 100% telework contract with the Government... I'd so be moving back to the west. |
| 13:43.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | i could buy a phone booth here for $125K... but it would be advertised as a "cozy... handyman's dream..." |
| 13:43.45 | d-lo | has his eye on Northern Colorado/Wyoming. |
| 13:44.00 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not bad |
| 13:44.10 | d-lo | Prices bad out there then? |
| 13:44.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yes, thanks to Californication |
| 13:44.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and no lumber, thanks Green peace and spotted owl! |
| 13:45.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | not that spotted owl is any different than striped one, just does not get away from chainsaws fast enough |
| 13:45.26 | d-lo | Them Cali's are screwing up AZ too. They are causing the real-estate market to crash and mess my family's investments! (fumes) |
| 13:45.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yup |
| 13:45.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that's ok |
| 13:45.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | they will be bankrupt and fall into Pacific soon |
| 13:46.09 | Dr_Phreakenstein | already halfway there... bankrupt |
| 13:46.47 | d-lo | I new a guy who thought it would be funny if the 'Big One' hit cali and everything east of the fault fell into the Atlantic. |
| 13:47.14 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hmmm... |
| 13:47.19 | d-lo | Murphey would probably laugh his ass of at that one. |
| 13:47.39 | Dr_Phreakenstein | he may need to re-examine the atlas before he gets his hopes up |
| 13:48.15 | d-lo | oh thank god.... it finally compiled. Stupid Singleton.... |
| 13:48.39 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, then nobody to pay high prices for hollywood movies, actors must find productive work now |
| 13:49.21 | d-lo | aint that the truth. Perhaps all the Pro Sports players would get a real job too... but thats just asking too much i suppose. |
| 13:49.53 | d-lo | I suppose that Education will become more important that the NFL about the same time hell freezes over. |
| 13:50.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | if then |
| 13:50.59 | ``Erik | were saying 60 on the radio |
| 13:51.13 | Dr_Phreakenstein | how much to build new arena? |
| 13:51.28 | d-lo | hopes this building gets damaged.. maybe we can get a new one! |
| 13:51.34 | ``Erik | HAH! |
| 13:51.37 | Dr_Phreakenstein | how many schools, teachers, textbooks for that much money |
| 13:51.42 | d-lo | I know... I laughed too. |
| 13:51.58 | Dr_Phreakenstein | with obama, you will get at least one |
| 13:52.07 | ``Erik | I'm upstairs because the floor is gonna give, I"d rather fall than be fallen on O.o |
| 13:52.31 | d-lo | not to mention, for that amount of money... you just *might* get a few more students to stop betting their career on Pro Ball and actually prepare for life. |
| 13:52.41 | Dr_Phreakenstein | actually, they will have so much money, they will build one, tear it down, then make a new one from granite and gold |
| 13:52.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah |
| 13:52.52 | d-lo | ack, true. theres a big heavy thing over my office too.... |
| 13:53.21 | Dr_Phreakenstein | hey, stop calling Erik "the big heavy thing over my office" |
| 13:53.25 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sorry |
| 13:53.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that was bad |
| 13:53.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | did not mean it |
| 13:53.36 | ``Erik | heh, I'm one over, he's talking about dave :D |
| 13:53.39 | d-lo | realizes that armed with this knowledge, Murphy and his laws are putting d-lo at serious risk.... |
| 13:53.55 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 13:53.58 | ``Erik | pheer the skeery dave on dave action that might happen O.O (or didja mean the safe) |
| 13:54.19 | Dr_Phreakenstein | what's the diff? |
| 13:54.33 | d-lo | retches and the mere beginnings of the mental picture 'Dave on Dave Action' |
| 13:54.59 | d-lo | Hi, my name is Dave and this is my Co-worker Dave and my other Co-worker Dave. |
| 13:55.08 | d-lo | We work at a freaky cloning factory. |
| 13:55.20 | Dr_Phreakenstein | anything like that dude, what's his name... |
| 13:55.26 | ``Erik | passes out mandatory flannel and those earflap hats |
| 13:55.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | rosie o'donnel |
| 13:55.34 | d-lo | lawl. |
| 13:56.03 | d-lo | Mandatory Flannel ...sounds like a punk rock band or the punch line to a really bad joke... |
| 13:56.04 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ba-dum-che |
| 13:56.38 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sounds like the hour when the rock stations plays only 90's alternative |
| 13:56.39 | ``Erik | wait, I think dlo just called my wardrobe a really bad joke *sob* |
| 13:56.54 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ... hey, and mine |
| 13:57.01 | d-lo | Rosie is on the list of "People to leave behind when we evacuate Earth during Armageddon" |
| 13:57.19 | Dr_Phreakenstein | yeah, craft not rated for that payload |
| 13:57.33 | ``Erik | I thought she was on the passenger list for the one we shoot into thte sun, isn't that how simpsons portrayed it? |
| 13:57.38 | d-lo | ``Erik: You play the guitar, right? |
| 13:57.54 | ``Erik | I beat on strings and fake it |
| 13:58.02 | d-lo | Flannel allowed then. |
| 13:58.11 | Dr_Phreakenstein | you know a dude named Eric Johnson? |
| 13:58.28 | d-lo | Special Agent Eric Johnson? |
| 13:58.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | think satriani, steve vai |
| 13:58.57 | ``Erik | play a lot of narvarna, alice in chains, soundgarden, ... and I lived in the seattle area from '88 to '96, so I'll pretend I'm allowed to be a throwback :D |
| 13:59.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | nice! |
| 13:59.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | AIC, "would"... great bassline |
| 13:59.47 | Dr_Phreakenstein | simple, but solid |
| 14:00.12 | brlcad | d-lo: there aren't too many trees to worry about in the city, bigger concern are ancient power poles in the alleys |
| 14:01.07 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) | |
| 14:01.17 | d-lo | brlcad: Ack... didn't even consider that... forgot that power isn't buried everywhere.... |
| 14:01.29 | d-lo | brlcad: Still have power? |
| 14:01.33 | d-lo | :D |
| 14:01.44 | ``Erik | obviously he doesn't |
| 14:01.45 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:02.09 | d-lo | has his router and modem on a dedicated UPS. :P |
| 14:02.37 | d-lo | sometimes it works... sometimes not. Depends on the ups in the Comcast cabinet down the street. |
| 14:02.58 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, my cable modem, 'server' and wireless router are all on a fairly big consumer grade ups |
| 14:03.39 | d-lo | ``Erik: Hows the cable modem feeling now adays? any better? |
| 14:04.26 | Dr_Phreakenstein | ... in the time it took to ask that, rates increased another $3 |
| 14:04.32 | ``Erik | tracked it down to a specific connection, might clean it and shoot some silly-con or a little oil to fight off corrosion |
| 14:05.03 | Dr_Phreakenstein | deoxit |
| 14:05.06 | d-lo | Dr_Phreakenstein: aint that the truth. |
| 14:05.08 | ``Erik | need to clean up my den so I can make the cable company come fix it, probably needs the splitter replaced and upstream cable cut and redone |
| 14:05.34 | Dr_Phreakenstein | don't bother... cockcast? |
| 14:05.34 | ``Erik | lacks a coax crimper |
| 14:05.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | they will make it worse, if and when they show |
| 14:06.06 | d-lo | i dunno, their rates might be high, but I have had decent luck with the techs that come out. |
| 14:06.16 | Dr_Phreakenstein | "tech" |
| 14:06.25 | ``Erik | yeah, I tried to call them out after an 8 hour service failure, soonest they could schedule someone to look at it was 2 weeks away... ended up working again "magically" so I never bothered |
| 14:06.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | as in 6 grueling hours of how to say "I dunno, but it will cost more... and save you money, somehow" |
| 14:07.13 | ``Erik | amusingly, I could probably drop off all my gear and cancel my service on the way in to work, call, and have a tech out to install stuff when I get home. but fixing something for someone already paying? 2 weeks. |
| 14:07.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | cancel that auto debit |
| 14:07.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | they will be more responsive |
| 14:07.53 | Dr_Phreakenstein | no joke |
| 14:08.30 | ``Erik | heh, never bought into that, I don't like the notion of people taking money from me without letting me audit and approve first |
| 14:09.11 | d-lo | well, i have heard of *some* people who call in and cancel service knowing that they probably won't get around to turning it off for a few months... at which point they call back in and turn it on again. gets a few free months out of it... |
| 14:09.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | usually only works for tv part |
| 14:10.10 | Dr_Phreakenstein | and then they may never actually unhook phys connection |
| 14:10.30 | Dr_Phreakenstein | someone like me, but legally distinct from me told a funny story |
| 14:10.41 | ``Erik | they usually don't, houses have pretty much all come pre-wired for cable for the last 25 years |
| 14:10.51 | Dr_Phreakenstein | "he" used to live in a 104 unit apt complex... |
| 14:11.18 | Dr_Phreakenstein | convinced all neighbors to disconnect cable service |
| 14:11.27 | Dr_Phreakenstein | then reconnected them |
| 14:11.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | got them to chip in for replacement locks for boxes... |
| 14:12.12 | Dr_Phreakenstein | also, bought bolt cutters from Home Depot, used them for project, and returned them when done |
| 14:12.23 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that guy is great! |
| 14:12.52 | Dr_Phreakenstein | figured if nobody started/stopped service, they would never come out |
| 14:12.53 | d-lo | Well, there is a fine line between being economical and being flat out cheap :D Good story though. |
| 14:13.06 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 14:13.29 | Dr_Phreakenstein | that may be worse than cheap, but hey, those guys had it coming |
| 14:13.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | sometimes ya gotta enforce a little karma yourself |
| 14:14.31 | Dr_Phreakenstein | don't remember his name... |
| 14:15.17 | d-lo | i'm sure :) |
| 14:16.43 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 14:18.25 | d-lo | brlcad: Do you remember what the difference is between pkg_conn.pkc_inbuf and pkg_conn.pkc_buf ? |
| 14:19.51 | brlcad | not off the top of my head |
| 14:19.59 | d-lo | kk |
| 14:27.23 | Dr_Phreakenstein | goodnight, kids |
| 14:27.48 | ``Erik | later |
| 14:27.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | be safe at work, and watch out for falling daves, safes, and powerlines |
| 14:28.44 | Dr_Phreakenstein | rember, US plugs are dangerous! |
| 14:28.50 | Dr_Phreakenstein | remember |
| 14:29.35 | d-lo | as my Basic Electricity Instructor always said: 60Hz?!? Why yes it does! |
| 14:29.48 | Dr_Phreakenstein | :) |
| 14:30.45 | starseeker | estimates his car's wind profile and decides to risk it... |
| 14:31.42 | d-lo | geek |
| 14:31.43 | d-lo | :) |
| 14:31.55 | ``Erik | heh, I'd heard at some point that the big safety problem with the US power grid was more about the frequency, but it may've been damn swede propoganda |
| 14:32.31 | ``Erik | the wind barely effected me on the way in, the suvs and trucks didn't seem bothered, either |
| 14:38.30 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-158.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) | |
| 14:38.49 | ``Erik | contemplaes the next code hackery to inflict |
| 14:39.37 | d-lo | options? |
| 14:39.37 | ``Erik | uhm, mostly isst shtuff |
| 14:39.37 | d-lo | right, but what parts are on the chopping block? |
| 14:40.05 | ``Erik | local library linking (getting rid of distributed and the networking overhead)? conversion to libpkg for distributed? arsing out the cut feature? resizable windows? elimination of the mysql dependancy? |
| 14:40.32 | d-lo | I would go with the pibpkg thing :) |
| 14:40.36 | d-lo | libpkg even. |
| 14:40.44 | ``Erik | only so you'd have someone to ask questions of O.o :> |
| 14:41.06 | d-lo | that and see another implementation of it to draw exp from :) |
| 14:41.16 | d-lo | either way, its purely selfish :) |
| 14:41.19 | ``Erik | hrm, the tpkg.c thing isn't useful enough? |
| 14:42.07 | d-lo | its been a huge help, but hasn't answered all my q's. |
| 14:42.50 | d-lo | I R Newb, 'member? |
| 14:43.18 | ``Erik | surspects that with recent workstations, distributed is actually a slowdown for isst, it runs awfully snappy with all 3 components running on the workstation, with the overhead of all thsoe packet copies and the compression/decompession of it all |
| 14:44.43 | d-lo | well, if you are already operating at the far right of 'the curve' then yeah, no reason for distributed. |
| 14:48.41 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33750 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/slave.c: comment on a noticed crash, will deal with it later. |
| 15:02.57 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33751 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (9 files in 3 dirs): move geometry loading stuff from slave/ to libtienet/ |
| 15:03.55 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) | |
| 15:28.29 | *** join/#brlcad brlquestions (n=user@60.Red-79-152-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) | |
| 15:37.39 | d-lo | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:39.45 | ``Erik | uhm, doesn't orbit have something to do that? or libidl? |
| 15:40.30 | *** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D758.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 15:40.59 | d-lo | dunno :) I want something simple, lgpl and portable |
| 15:42.30 | ``Erik | <-- has only bothered with uuids in java, they seem like a using thermobaric when a pistol would suffice most of the time O.o |
| 15:43.40 | d-lo | well, I want to make it as simple as the Java implementation... but If i have to generate all 128 bits randomly, then so be it. Just don't know much about random seeding and predictability on computers. |
| 15:43.58 | ``Erik | seeding is just a number, random is not |
| 15:44.04 | brlquestions | Hi everybody ! |
| 15:44.36 | ``Erik | but if you hash the hostname (or a mac address), time and semirandom, it should be good |
| 15:45.14 | ``Erik | hrm, libuuid is part of e2fsprogs |
| 15:45.26 | d-lo | exactly. If its not as simple as randomly taking 128 bytes, then I might as well find a simple lib rather than recreate the wheel. |
| 15:45.33 | d-lo | yeah saw that one. |
| 15:45.52 | ``Erik | the versions are explicitely defined |
| 15:46.08 | d-lo | right, I just want type 4 (Random) |
| 15:47.53 | d-lo | nm, OSSP looks like a solid choice. thanks! |
| 15:50.21 | ``Erik | ah, mit license, cool beans |
| 15:51.50 | brlquestions | working on a brute force fillet ... CPU about to burn ! |
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| 18:20.21 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33752 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (glob.c qray.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 18:20.21 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: Problem with MGED starting up was due to errors getting returned by ged commands |
| 18:20.21 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: if a database was not open, despite this being a valid state to attempt |
| 18:20.21 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: commands. The fix is two-fold. First, glob.c has had its logic for checking on |
| 18:20.23 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: the state of the database moved to where it actually needs it - the regexp |
| 18:20.25 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: matching part. Second, if the wdbp is null return OK, and do this BEFORE the |
| 18:20.27 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: database open check. It may be that some libged commands will need to make the |
| 18:25.46 | starseeker | so far, opendb will successfully open a file but I don't get the background color update specified in the .mgedrc file. However, I do get the settings imported into the color preferences panel and can successfully apply them |
| 18:26.36 | starseeker | I guess this makes sense - if the user locally overrides the bkg color you don't want it switching everytime a new file is opened |
| 18:27.05 | starseeker | wonder if there should be a special case for no file previously opened |
| 18:42.21 | starseeker | brlcad: "gets" man page? |
| 18:44.00 | starseeker | you mean the Tcl gets command? |
| 18:44.29 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:44.34 | brlcad | man n gets |
| 18:45.07 | starseeker | do I set up a standard tcl file handler and use that then? |
| 18:45.17 | brlcad | pretty sure that problem is due to our gets replacement that handles the stdin redirect, and it may just be logic that didn't get migrated to ged |
| 18:46.37 | brlcad | sorry, mac manual page doesn't have the example -- this: http://tmml.sourceforge.net/doc/tcl/gets.html |
| 18:46.38 | starseeker | the gets manpage here has no example - is there another somewhere? |
| 18:46.43 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 18:47.21 | brlcad | basically that exact example won't work |
| 18:47.29 | brlcad | and of course it should :) |
| 18:47.37 | starseeker | all rightie... |
| 18:47.39 | brlcad | it's not a tcl problem, it's because we replace gets |
| 18:47.48 | brlcad | so we're doing something wrong |
| 18:47.50 | starseeker | with ged_get? |
| 18:47.54 | brlcad | dunno |
| 18:48.00 | brlcad | might be tcl-only in stc/tclscripts |
| 18:48.55 | starseeker | hmm |
| 18:49.28 | brlcad | check ged/mged first |
| 18:56.36 | brlcad | example: [morrison@ocho (Thu Feb 12 13:54:26) ~]$ brlcad-config --libs bu |
| 18:56.37 | brlcad | -L/usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.6/lib -lbu -ltcl8.5 -Xlinker -framework CoreFoundation -lpng -lm -lpthread |
| 18:57.03 | brlcad | [morrison@ocho (Thu Feb 12 13:54:40) ~]$ brlcad-config --ldflags bu |
| 18:57.03 | brlcad | -L/usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.6/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -O3 |
| 19:05.08 | starseeker | brlcad: is your error "can't read "line": no such variable ? |
| 19:07.38 | brlcad | yep |
| 19:07.49 | brlcad | or it'll crash, can get a couple things |
| 19:08.26 | brlcad | might just need an "upvar $varname" |
| 19:12.00 | starseeker | there's an upvar $args vname |
| 19:18.25 | starseeker | interesting - works in -c mode |
| 19:20.11 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:21.06 | starseeker | eh? |
| 19:21.28 | starseeker | what happened? |
| 19:21.37 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33753 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (74 files): remove executable property from .c files. |
| 19:21.47 | starseeker | ah - I was wondering about that |
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| 19:29.23 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33754 10/rt^3/trunk/ (31 files in 3 dirs): added a simple uuid generation library from OSSP (http://www.ossp.org) |
| 19:33.30 | d-lo | hi mafm! |
| 19:43.59 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33755 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: Add upvar for incoming variable so gets functions as expected on mged command line. |
| 19:44.36 | starseeker | brlcad: you called it - just took me a bit to figure out how to use it and test |
| 19:44.42 | brlcad | cool |
| 19:45.19 | starseeker | mged -c and mged work very differently in some ways, don't they |
| 19:46.30 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33756 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Take gets bug off of todo list - may have already fixed the File->Open but need to confirm on more machines. |
| 19:50.34 | louipc | If jove is deprecated should it be disabled by default? |
| 19:58.00 | brlcad | starseeker: yep |
| 19:58.02 | brlcad | louipc: meh |
| 19:58.54 | starseeker | brlcad: File-Open is fixed? |
| 19:58.57 | brlcad | in the sake of being completely self-contained, I think we should still provide 'some' minimal editor .. just not jove |
| 19:59.04 | brlcad | maybe an old version of vi |
| 19:59.21 | louipc | ah hehe |
| 19:59.38 | brlcad | but that'd be pointless until I get a terminal ported anyways |
| 19:59.51 | brlcad | starseeker: don't know |
| 20:00.05 | brlcad | i'm working on something else |
| 20:00.24 | louipc | there aren't any plans to deprecate mged -c are there? |
| 20:01.24 | starseeker | brlcad: what's yep? |
| 20:01.47 | starseeker | oh, the mged remark? |
| 20:02.04 | ``Erik | likes mged -c, but would like jove to be removed sooner than later :) |
| 20:02.19 | louipc | yeah |
| 20:05.09 | ``Erik | what's a good svn post-commit hook? the included one keeps failing with no useful message |
| 20:05.58 | starseeker | we could always use the original vi from 4BSD :-) |
| 20:06.38 | starseeker | thinks it would be cruel and unusual punishment for folks used to jove though |
| 20:06.44 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096600726.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:06.59 | d-lo | MUWAHAHAHA |
| 20:07.50 | ``Erik | ed, damnit. |
| 20:08.23 | d-lo | Ed is down here talking to Bob. |
| 20:08.33 | ``Erik | /bin/ed |
| 20:08.43 | d-lo | =D |
| 20:09.04 | ``Erik | "I used ed to edit files. Ed, go write me my files." |
| 20:09.22 | louipc | yeah I dunno, I think editors are widespread enough that you shouldn't need to ship one with your software, unless there's a particular need for that editor |
| 20:09.38 | d-lo | I think Ed needs a new sign on his door: "/bin/ed" |
| 20:09.51 | ``Erik | we need to have one in our 'special' list to launch stuff like red and oed and those |
| 20:10.16 | d-lo | ``Erik: so, basicly, brlcad needs /special/ed ? |
| 20:10.23 | d-lo | :) |
| 20:10.31 | louipc | ``Erik: a guaranteed fallback? |
| 20:11.16 | ``Erik | ed is the guaranteed fallback ... :D src/mged/tedit.c |
| 20:11.23 | louipc | haha it is |
| 20:11.54 | ``Erik | will just delete that annoying emacs line and make it all better O:-) |
| 20:13.43 | ``Erik | hrm, on the bsd's, emacs and vim tend to live in /usr/local/bin O.o wonder if that should be done to have a set of paths and programs and permute them, instead of singly hard coding that |
| 20:14.24 | louipc | yeah probably |
| 20:14.36 | ``Erik | having /usr/bin/emacs and /usr/bin/vim seems a little wrong to me :D like leenewx weenies who have never done critical system recovery and don't know about partitions |
| 20:15.22 | louipc | we use live cds |
| 20:15.28 | louipc | :D |
| 20:15.39 | ``Erik | my cd's are all inorganic, so, uh, dead |
| 20:18.44 | louipc | hmm this could be a replacement candidate http://www.bostic.com/vi/ |
| 20:19.08 | brlcad | louipc: heaven's no |
| 20:19.23 | brlcad | mged -c is here to stay for probably as long as there is an mged |
| 20:19.42 | brlcad | starseeker: that's actually what I was thinking of re old vi |
| 20:19.44 | louipc | brlcad: ok good to hear |
| 20:20.59 | brlcad | louipc: the point of shipping one is really "just in case" there isn't a system editor (extreme portability, embedded environments, new platforms, etc) |
| 20:22.12 | brlcad | or on the off chance that it's a system that doesn't have things properly configured, we do something sensible other than something stupid like Can't open display: |
| 20:22.36 | brlcad | X11 being particularly notorious for horrible messages |
| 20:25.41 | brlcad | ``Erik: it is wrong, none should be listed -- but jove makes for a horrible default and letting it search PATH would be a security weakness |
| 20:28.29 | louipc | nice. that vi ^ is smaller than nano |
| 20:29.21 | ``Erik | oh, nvi, that's the one included in the bsd's for /usr/bin/vi |
| 20:30.02 | ``Erik | almost 71000 lines, ed is 3500 |
| 20:30.11 | louipc | haha |
| 20:31.22 | d-lo | Ed is rather touchy about that, so just keep your voice down. |
| 20:38.42 | ``Erik | vim weighs in at 264,291, and emacs at 1,166,933 |
| 20:39.51 | brlcad | interestingly, vim is well past the point at which folks used to complain about emacs' size back in the 90's |
| 20:39.56 | ``Erik | hrm, I did vim with sloccount, which eliminates blank lines and stuff, ed scores 2750 and 45,326 when I use the same metric |
| 20:40.14 | ``Erik | nvi 45k |
| 20:40.23 | ``Erik | eight megs and constantly swapping? |
| 20:40.32 | starseeker | plots to include nvi quietly one night... |
| 20:40.33 | brlcad | thinks ``Erik should write a drupal sloccount plugin for the website |
| 20:40.37 | louipc | :D |
| 20:41.00 | starseeker | brlcad: How much longer before we can strip out jove altogether? |
| 20:41.10 | ``Erik | heh, I have to fix my svn mail hook first, and do that command for mged O.o |
| 20:41.43 | brlcad | starseeker: see doc/deprecation.txt |
| 20:43.31 | louipc | looong time |
| 20:43.35 | brlcad | thinks we should have a little "vgr" login widget on the website ala cgi:irc where you could log onto a simh session |
| 20:44.07 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 20:44.12 | brlcad | basically around 7.22 |
| 20:44.51 | ``Erik | I was kinda thinking.. mebbe it should spawn a fresh instance for every user and let htem have root on a temp copy of the disk i mage |
| 20:44.59 | brlcad | yeah |
| 20:45.19 | brlcad | actually a whole lot harder to do anything but root probably |
| 20:45.30 | ``Erik | plus a hell of a lot more boring |
| 20:45.42 | starseeker | grumbles a little about having to leave jove in so long when it can't handle files we might need it to... |
| 20:45.46 | starseeker | oh, well |
| 20:45.53 | brlcad | another interesting one would be a web-based mged where your command prompt would send commands to an "mged -c" instance |
| 20:47.27 | louipc | attach (nu|X|ogl|web)[nu]? |
| 20:47.36 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:53.48 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33757 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c): |
| 20:53.48 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: add a new rt_comb_get_color() routine to librt that returns the color for a |
| 20:53.48 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: given combination. this change comes inspired by a code snippet contribution |
| 20:53.48 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: from Van Hoa Le (SAIC) that was using a similar routine for their purposes. |
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| 21:25.24 | ``Erik | *grump* |
| 21:33.38 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33758 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c): oops, sry bob et al. fix typo and sig to unbreak the build |
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| 22:07.53 | ``Erik | wow that's slow |
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| 22:38.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: fix normals should probably be rewritten |
| 22:39.00 | brlcad | it's presently an O(n^3) algorithm (or worse) |
| 23:00.46 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33759 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): beginnings of nmg_fix_normals mged cmd |
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