IRC log for #brlcad on 20090324

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03:16.22 starseeker brlcad: when did version 5 of the db format become the default?
03:29.16 *** join/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@70.238.171.170)
03:29.45 Briggs quick question for anyone who knows: Would BRL-CADS NMG booleans be suitable to just doing boolean operations on complex 2d polygon data?
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04:07.08 dreeves ffghk/
04:21.40 Ralith Briggs: doubtful; BRL-CAD is all about volumes, and 2D stuff has no volume, and thus might as well not exist.
04:22.26 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34065 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (BRL-CAD_db_format.xml Makefile.am): Start working on converting http://brlcad.org/OLD/newdb/newdb.html to docbook.
04:22.50 Briggs Ralith: thought that might be the case.
04:23.29 Ralith Briggs: you could, of course, extrude the polygons.
04:23.42 Briggs then I just end up having to delete data.
04:23.43 Briggs but might work.
04:24.39 Briggs actually I could have two polygons, back to back and that would satisfy the euler-poincare forumla while still being completely flat :)
04:24.47 Briggs I doubt that BRL-CAD would like that though
04:26.15 Ralith I'd be surprised if there weren't tools more appropriate for handling boolean ops on 2D datasets anyway
04:26.40 Briggs Ralith: there are... but I'm looking for something that has liberal licensing for the time being
04:26.59 Ralith what exactly are you trying to do?
04:27.19 Briggs its part of a much bigger application/framework for generating models procedurally from GIS data.
04:28.13 Briggs 2d booleans just small part of that. Most electronic map data comes in polygons that need to be joined togather when they cross cell boundaries.
04:29.19 Briggs 3d booleans are also a part of that later as well, but I know that wont be a problem for NMG :)
04:43.08 brlcad starseeker: with release 6 iirc
04:44.43 brlcad Briggs: hm, interesting -- in theory, it'll work if you only use the lower-level functions (e.g. clip this polygon against this one, etc), but like ralith said, it is doubtful in general
04:45.09 brlcad and no, you can't have two polys back to back -- it'll detect that as a degenerate condition
04:45.16 Briggs brlcad: yeah. Most 2d clippers seem to be heavily optimized using sweepline algorithms that are a lot faster than having to consider general 3d case.
04:45.30 Briggs brlcad: really? even if it satisfies manifold condition?
04:45.41 Briggs or do you mean the booleans will consider it degenerate, not NMG nessecarilly.
04:46.00 brlcad right
04:46.04 Briggs gotcha :)
05:01.40 brlcad now if you made the 2D data more than our default distance tolerance, I'd entirely expect it to work
05:02.07 Briggs what do you mean?
05:02.19 brlcad I mean, extruded to 3D
05:02.24 Briggs ahhh yeah
05:02.44 Briggs might be a quick hack/workaround while I evaluate other packages/libs that specialize in this sort of thing.
05:03.19 brlcad if it didn't work, I'd consider that a bug -- would be an interesting way to build up test cases too. hmm.
05:03.46 Briggs well this would definitely be considered 'abuse' I think
05:03.49 brlcad let me know if you try it, sounds pretty cool
05:04.00 Briggs since this would be landlines that are comprised of like 30 thousand points each
05:04.52 Briggs but also advantage is *if* it does work I can just modify the NMG structures to support custom data + interpolation
05:05.07 Briggs which I will need to tage these entities with all kinds of extra info I want to preserve.
05:05.20 brlcad performance won't really matter much with the number of points -- it'll matter with the number of booleans and the NxM comparisons it has to make
05:05.36 Briggs realllly.....
05:05.38 Briggs hrmmm
05:06.38 brlcad I mean in general, there are some bad cases .. just depends what you're doing and the order of ops
05:06.53 Briggs right now I'm only concerned with simple unions.
05:07.04 Briggs 'simple' is bad word to use...
05:07.53 brlcad still, there's several ways you can do simple unions -- consider unioning 100 objects together
05:08.20 Briggs right
05:08.22 Briggs wont be that many.
05:08.26 brlcad you can union B into A, then C into A+B, then D into A+B+C, then E into A+B+C+D .. and so on, or
05:08.55 brlcad you could union A+B and C+D and E+F, then union A+B with C+D and E+F with ... etc
05:09.15 Briggs right
05:09.54 brlcad with our current implementation, the latter is something like O(n^2) performance where the first one is something like O(n^3) performance .. i.e. first is much much worse
05:10.42 brlcad mm, latter is probably more like O(n*log(n)) instead of O(n^2)
05:13.46 starseeker mutters under his breath about the rockbox video player, or ffmpeg, or both...
05:23.57 Ralith rockbox is great for audio
05:24.03 Ralith never used it on a video-capable device, though.
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10:38.18 d-lo Morning all
11:01.57 hippieindamakin8 brlcad the best overlay calculations used in GIS use O(nlogn) agorithms
11:02.39 hippieindamakin8 which ofcourse rely on the line sweep algos
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14:09.04 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34066 10/rt^3/trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs): accurate exceptions for the Objects
14:41.35 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34067 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/brlcad/Database.h src/coreInterface/Database.cpp): Delete() to remove an object from the database
15:11.22 brlcad starseeker: hm, no schema
15:12.06 brlcad let me see if I can revive the site somewhere
15:14.40 starseeker yeah, I can't connect to the materials database in mysql from the command line, at least not with whatever my default username setup in mysql is
15:14.58 starseeker common.inc seems to have some comments
15:24.35 brlcad starseeker: site revived at http://mater.brlcad.org/
15:24.45 brlcad have to look through the sources to get user/pass
15:25.23 brlcad that's the credentials you'd have to use regardless to get at the db
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16:28.26 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34068 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Added rt_bot_flip, rot_bot_sync, ged_bot_flip and ged_bot_sync functions. Also added bot_flip and bot_sync commands to MGED.
17:28.18 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34069 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add on-disk format table to BRL-CAD db v5 spec.
18:04.02 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34070 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add H/A/Bflags table to BRL-CAD db v5 spec.
18:07.10 brlcad starseeker: cool, so you're just working your way through the doc?
18:07.28 brlcad would have taken a second to dig up the most up-to-date version of it had I known that ;)
18:07.30 starseeker brlcad: Yeah, I figure it's the best way to familiarize myself with the db format
18:07.35 starseeker oh :-)
18:07.40 starseeker that'd be nice
18:07.45 starseeker drool...
18:07.57 brlcad it's close enough, that's why that one's up there
18:08.35 brlcad just a couple days or work missing, nothing that can't be fixed up in another pass cleanup
18:08.41 brlcad when you're done, I can go through it again
18:08.50 starseeker cool
18:08.58 brlcad know a good way to tag a section in docbook?
18:09.15 starseeker um - you can give it an id for xinclude
18:09.18 brlcad (with something other than sect)
18:09.35 brlcad I'm thinking like say I wanted to mark up that document with extra information
18:09.39 brlcad so there's the spec as it is now
18:10.00 starseeker oh, and then comments or some such?
18:10.07 brlcad then some means to denote all deprecated features when it's rendered
18:10.15 brlcad and yet another to denote features to be changed
18:10.22 brlcad and yet another to denote features to be removed/added, etc
18:10.27 starseeker pulls up his docbook tag list...
18:10.55 brlcad So like it will add things like a few paragraphs throughout, a few extra lines/columns to tables, etc
18:11.26 brlcad i suspect it's too much for docbook to easily handle without messy markup
18:11.35 starseeker yeah, I'm afraid so
18:12.01 starseeker you can make custom tags and the corresponding xsl, but then of course it's not structly docbook
18:13.24 starseeker this might have some hints: http://docs.oasis-open.org/templates/DocBook/spec-0.4/template/
18:15.17 d-lo Heya ``Erik , how ya feelin?
18:15.30 ``Erik a bit better, still coughing an awful lot
18:15.41 ``Erik but my sinuses are starting to clear up
18:15.48 ``Erik I'll be in tomorrie
18:16.03 d-lo The weather change is whoopin my ass too :/
18:19.44 starseeker brlcad: I've not included some of the intro stuff (goals, features for possible inclusion, etc.) yet since it seems to kind of distract from the main point - I figured it might make more sense as a "suggested features" Appendix or some such.
18:20.12 starseeker easy enough to toss back in if it really needs to be where it is now
18:20.53 ``Erik the wench back in missoura had it when I went, but she thought it was allergies, *shrug* so I got to fly back with clogged sinuses, runny nose, etc... not fun
18:39.27 brlcad starseeker: there is also a discussion appendix already
18:39.55 brlcad the rest is more rationale and discussions, was annotated comments in the original
18:40.22 brlcad sort of like section footnotes
18:40.59 brlcad probably better as footnotes to the sections they talk about than as an appendix
18:54.03 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34071 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
18:54.03 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: back by popular demand, you can now run the 'inside' command on edit state
18:54.03 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: objects again. bob restored this feature after the backwards-compatibility and
18:54.03 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: efficiency concerns were raised by victor cericole at an arl configuration
18:54.03 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: change meeting. the feature raises a whole category of concerns on how to best
18:54.06 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: handle edit state objects with libged (and as yet unresolved).
19:02.44 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34072 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add Flags descriptions to spec.
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19:16.47 elite01 this is cool
19:17.05 elite01 thanks to people like him, i can now use tab completion on common words
19:17.14 elite01 so i bought this new Computer *bam, tab*
19:17.21 elite01 Computer, you're awesome
19:26.15 brlcad heh
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21:03.46 brlcad wb pacman87 :)
21:03.53 pacman87 ty :D
21:04.03 brlcad pacman87: how's the semester going?
21:04.12 pacman87 pretty good
21:04.14 pacman87 busy
21:04.22 brlcad fun?
21:04.32 pacman87 yeah
21:04.43 pacman87 except for gov
21:06.58 brlcad pacman87: you applying to gsoc this year?
21:07.05 pacman87 yeah
21:07.22 brlcad awesome
21:07.27 pacman87 finish up revolve, and get as much of sweep done as i can
21:08.18 brlcad that sounds fantastic :)
21:08.21 pacman87 i might apply to bzflag too for anti-cheat mods
21:08.26 pacman87 since i've already done some of that
21:08.31 brlcad oof, make my life hard, eh? :)
21:08.34 pacman87 yeah
21:08.45 brlcad j/k, apply to whatever makes you happy -- you'll get a fair shake either way
21:09.12 brlcad I fear bz's is going to be really tough given we're only taking 2-3 slots
21:09.50 pacman87 what was the % change in total student slots from last year?
21:10.04 brlcad about 1250 to 1000
21:10.27 brlcad maybe closer to 1200, about 20% range
21:10.55 brlcad we're still intentionally taking much less for bz, though so we aren't burnt out and can press for a release
21:11.02 pacman87 what about the number of sponsored projects?
21:11.11 brlcad you mean orgs?
21:11.17 pacman87 yeah, forgot the proper term
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21:16.19 csanyipal howdy
21:16.42 pacman87 hi csanyipal
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21:51.34 brlcad orgs went from 130 to 175 then down to 150
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22:46.00 starseeker pacman87: go for sweep! go for sweep! ;-)
22:48.16 brlcad sweep the leg?
23:29.24 pacman87 starseeker: ;)
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