| 00:00.28 | Ralith | mud can be an improvement. |
| 00:06.20 | ``Erik | "AIG stands for arrogance, incompetence and greed" nice |
| 00:08.53 | Ralith | xkcd made a good point recently |
| 00:09.09 | Ralith | $200 or so million is not a very big fraction of the bailout. |
| 00:10.43 | Ralith | I'm more concerned by how we seem to be giving bailout money to companies which don't operate in the US at all. |
| 00:10.56 | Ralith | but then when I think about that much longer |
| 00:11.25 | Ralith | I realize I don't have a fraction of the experience necessary to dictate what is and is not reasonable |
| 00:11.29 | Ralith | so I go back to programming instead. |
| 00:14.27 | ``Erik | they don't seem to have the experience necessary to dictate what is and is not reasonable, either :) |
| 00:14.30 | louipc | what are the repercussions? :O |
| 00:15.06 | Ralith | ``Erik: this is true; that does not make me any more well-equipped to form a useful opinion. |
| 00:15.16 | Ralith | other than "whoever put those guys in charge should be shot" |
| 00:15.16 | ``Erik | depends on how you break it, louie... could be "this doens't seem right, fix it" for a minor goof to the "tire iron" treatment for damage to the repo history |
| 00:15.51 | Ralith | didn't know you could do that, bar a serious svn bug |
| 00:16.25 | ``Erik | I know you could with cvs, fairly easily if you mucked with the wrong commands |
| 00:16.37 | ``Erik | like deleting revisions that aren't HEAD |
| 00:17.02 | ``Erik | cvs admin -o <-- thermonuclear cleaning tool, don't do it unless you REALLY know what you're doing :) |
| 00:17.04 | Ralith | well, you *shouldn't* be able to. |
| 00:18.27 | louipc | hmm! |
| 00:18.32 | Ralith | not unless the repository's stored locally anyway |
| 00:19.43 | ``Erik | admin's a remote command, from back in the days when real programmers didn't make mistakes O:-) |
| 00:20.13 | louipc | you can't trust open source contributors to be real programmers hehe |
| 00:26.39 | Ralith | sad but true. |
| 00:41.29 | Ralith | ``Erik: know of a generic max/min macro pair (e.g. #define MAX(x,y) ((x)>(y)?(x):(y))) defined anywhere? If not, is that a reasonable addition to vmath.h? |
| 00:49.40 | ``Erik | uhm, a lot of os's provide them in basic headers |
| 00:50.26 | Ralith | really? |
| 00:51.40 | ``Erik | /usr/include/sys/param.h on fbsd and osX |
| 00:52.53 | ``Erik | and our common.h has FMAX |
| 00:53.04 | Ralith | ahh. |
| 00:53.06 | Ralith | perfect. |
| 00:54.51 | Ralith | if I drop an FABS in there, I think it'd complete the coverage of what's missing from vmath.h that was in vecmath.h. |
| 00:54.57 | Ralith | does so. |
| 00:55.09 | ``Erik | but fabs() is part of the iso standard |
| 00:56.04 | Ralith | yeah, but fabs() isn't really appropriate when you're dealing with e.g. a long int |
| 00:56.04 | ``Erik | then abs() is right? :) |
| 00:56.13 | Ralith | ...I can't believe I didn't notice that. |
| 00:56.26 | ``Erik | notes that fmin and fmax seem to be iso now |
| 00:56.28 | Ralith | smacks self. |
| 00:56.38 | ``Erik | ooh, me too, me too! |
| 00:56.40 | Ralith | yeah, but there does not appear to be a corresponding min and max |
| 00:56.41 | ``Erik | smacks ralith |
| 00:56.41 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:56.43 | Ralith | D: |
| 00:56.54 | Ralith | so in that case the common.h defines will get to come out and play. |
| 00:57.10 | ``Erik | yeh |
| 00:58.10 | ``Erik | my manpages attribute abs/fabs to c99, wonder if they were everywhere but not standardized before that :/ |
| 01:06.08 | Ralith | hm. |
| 01:06.22 | Ralith | what's the correct abs function to use for a fastf_t? |
| 01:06.44 | Ralith | I think I'll just use a (:?) expr there. |
| 01:06.58 | Ralith | 'cuz it could theoretically be anything, right? |
| 01:12.40 | Ralith | okay, seems to build. |
| 01:13.11 | Ralith | lets the rest of BRL-CAD do so. |
| 01:17.57 | ``Erik | 'cept it's always double |
| 01:19.17 | Ralith | well, if that was the point of it, we'd just be using double. |
| 01:20.02 | Ralith | this makes it much easier to change things for new hardware or special requirements |
| 01:20.14 | Ralith | e.g. the GMP type that was discussed a little while ago |
| 01:20.29 | Ralith | or on some theoretical platform where single precision float is much faster |
| 01:20.42 | Ralith | and so on. |
| 01:22.27 | Ralith | is it safe to run 'make install' parallel to 'make benchmark'? |
| 01:32.12 | ``Erik | might skew things by introducing page misses and cache line misses |
| 01:32.36 | ``Erik | and possibly 'biglock' events or cli/sti swaps |
| 01:34.34 | Ralith | well, moot now anyway. |
| 01:38.53 | Ralith | is it just me or is BRL-CAD faster to build these days? |
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| 02:56.33 | ``Erik | "nascar - the most exciting version of traffic" |
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| 04:23.21 | deeeffache | does BRL CAD get a lot of commercial/business use? |
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| 05:39.10 | Ralith | stretches |
| 05:39.17 | Ralith | good to have this done: |
| 05:39.29 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34079 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/ (14 files): Removed the largely redundant vecmath.h from lgt, replacing uses with vmath macros. |
| 05:40.20 | Ralith | deeeffache: the documentation says as much, though I don't recall ever seeing explanations of by who, exactly. |
| 05:40.52 | Ralith | deeeffache: it's certainly production-quality; bar friendly GUI, I'd even go so far as to say the quality is above most commercial software. |
| 05:53.20 | deeeffache | I agree on the quality, I just always hear of autocad or pro/e or solidworks |
| 05:59.59 | Ralith | sure, and you always hear of windows too. |
| 06:00.46 | Ralith | not to be a linux fanboy or anything, but it's an apt metaphor. |
| 06:12.37 | deeeffache | Ill rephrase, i always see those under the required skill section on job postings |
| 06:12.58 | Ralith | ah. |
| 06:13.11 | Ralith | Well, not much we can do about that beyond further improve BRL-CAD. |
| 06:13.39 | Ralith | We've got some pretty cool features in the pipeline. |
| 06:15.37 | deeeffache | Yeah, ive been reading the project ideas, id love to see the material properties and physics integration |
| 06:16.55 | Ralith | that's the least of it; the code's undergoing a refactor to allow full editing capabilities as a library, and there's work to support version control and remote collaboration too, iirc. |
| 06:37.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34080 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/ (Makefile.am grid.c paint.c plot.c prnt.c vecmath.h): Removed another redundant vecmath.h from burst, replacing uses with vmath.h macros. |
| 06:40.12 | Ralith | that one was much easier. |
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| 07:31.11 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1297 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */ |
| 07:32.04 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1298 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */ |
| 08:17.49 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1299 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */ |
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| 10:34.21 | d-lo | morning all! |
| 10:39.30 | mafm_ | hi d-lo |
| 10:41.11 | d-lo | whats shakin mafm? |
| 10:42.06 | mafm_ | not much, reading thedailywtf during a pause :) |
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| 12:54.07 | csanyipal | howdy |
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| 13:44.52 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34081 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Modify bwish and archer to NOT use BLT. |
| 14:04.35 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1301 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: 2009 |
| 14:06.46 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1302 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: we're in, update info |
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| 14:14.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1303 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: update info, reorganize |
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| 15:47.58 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20090313) || GSoC 2009 Begins! | |
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| 17:31.45 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20090313) || GSoC 2009 Begins! | |
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| 18:19.43 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34085 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer: Make the initial window size a little smaller. Eventually, the window size and location will be saved and used at startup. |
| 18:41.48 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34086 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/library/panedwindow.tcl: Hack to get around the occassional complaining from the panedwindow about identify being a bad option. |
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| 19:33.16 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34087 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Modified the buildComboBox method to use ttk::combobox. |
| 19:52.33 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Modified the buildComboBox method to use ttk::combobox. |
| 19:52.48 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34089 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Minor cleanup. |
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| 20:16.49 | brlcad | mafm_: heh |
| 20:19.55 | kanzure | madant: Hey. Dawn, right? |
| 20:19.58 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
| 20:20.06 | kanzure | madant: I just came across this: http://code.google.com/p/descomp/ |
| 20:20.07 | kanzure | that's you, right? |
| 20:20.25 | kanzure | Do you have any of the Stiny papers on parametric shape grammars? |
| 20:20.53 | brlcad | Ralith: various editors and stream tools will automatically strip out the carriage returnss, the windows files in svn certainly haven't changed line ending anytime soon |
| 20:21.10 | brlcad | Ralith: oh yeah, and nice refactoring! |
| 20:28.06 | brlcad | svn intentionally left out that horrible feature of cvs admin, no way to nuke revisions other than dumping the backend repository and filtering out revision(s) (via svndumpfilter) |
| 20:29.29 | brlcad | abs/fabs/min/max are all portability problematic prior to c99 |
| 20:30.46 | brlcad | deeeffache: what would constitute a lot? |
| 20:32.11 | brlcad | ah, see you all already hashed that out as well. :) |
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| 20:51.23 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34090 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob changed archer/bwish to no longer use BLT. annotate the change to our external dependencies. |
| 20:58.40 | *** join/#brlcad BenReilly (n=benreill@d154-5-59-169.bchsia.telus.net) | |
| 21:02.27 | BenReilly | Hello everyone. I'm looking at applying to GSoC, and to begin, I'd like to know what sort of software development experience BRL-CAD would be looking for in their candidates. |
| 21:02.56 | brlcad | howdy BenReilly |
| 21:03.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34091 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: reduced archer's initial and maximum window size from 2048x1600 to 1400x1100 (with max at 1600x1200) |
| 21:03.50 | brlcad | BenReilly: experience isn't nearly as much of an issue (depending on the project) as is the ability to learn quickly and take initiative |
| 21:04.11 | ``Erik | enough to be successful at your project, but not so much that it doesn't provide a fun challenge? :D |
| 21:04.28 | brlcad | ell said |
| 21:04.36 | brlcad | 'well said' even |
| 21:06.28 | BenReilly | Right, of course. As well, though I don't mean to pile too many questions on you, how much C/C++ experience are you looking for. For instance, some ideas require a "familiarity" with the language, and I would like to know how extensive my familiarity should be. I ask because I have not worked a lot with C or C++, but I have a strong knowledge of Java and general programming language syntax and such. |
| 21:07.02 | pacman87 | BenReilly: it depends on the project |
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| 21:08.13 | pacman87 | the hardest part of my project last year was working through all the math |
| 21:08.15 | ``Erik | I'd imagine one of the biggest hurdles for java->c/c++ is grasping pointers. if you're comfortable with those, the rest is just minor syntax |
| 21:08.55 | ``Erik | of course, we have chunks that are java and tcl/tk, as well *shrug* |
| 21:08.56 | BenReilly | ``Erik: That's what I've heard. |
| 21:10.19 | ``Erik | tell ya what, figure out what you'd like to do, then we can talk about what level of ability might be needed for that? |
| 21:11.12 | ``Erik | (unless brlcad has a better idea) |
| 21:11.35 | BenReilly | Sounds good. Well, one that caught my eye was the "New Geometry Converter" |
| 21:11.39 | BenReilly | Would you like a link? |
| 21:11.50 | ``Erik | which format? |
| 21:12.52 | BenReilly | In terms of converting? Let's go with POV-Ray. |
| 21:13.47 | ``Erik | ooh, that'll be a tough one, but it shouldn't require a lot of C knowledge. it'd be quite a bit of effort mapping and translating the different primitive sets and re-creating the procedural stuff in POV, though |
| 21:14.48 | ``Erik | started one a while back hoping to hack it out in a day or two for performance comparisons, decided it was not a 1-2 day hack :D |
| 21:16.38 | BenReilly | Ah, I see. So then, what sort of steps would be involved in that kind of project? |
| 21:17.18 | BenReilly | Is it simply (though perhaps not truly "simply") converting a brl-cad file to and from a .pov file? |
| 21:17.44 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 21:18.06 | ``Erik | g-pov -o mything.pov mything.g all.g |
| 21:18.14 | ``Erik | pov-g mything.pov mything.g |
| 21:18.17 | brlcad | bbiab |
| 21:18.18 | BenReilly | Well then, I suppose that I should become familiar with the brl-cad files then, eh? |
| 21:18.25 | brlcad | always a good thing ;) |
| 21:18.29 | ``Erik | make those g-pov/pov-g things and it's a full converter |
| 21:18.47 | BenReilly | Gotcha |
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| 21:20.16 | ``Erik | the tricky part is we have primitives they don't, they have primitives we don't, and some of the primitives shared are subtly different. Additionally, pov allows things like logical constructs and loops (turing complete, yo!) where BRL-CAD is static geometry |
| 21:21.11 | BenReilly | brb |
| 21:21.57 | ``Erik | (E.G. pov can do "for(i=0;i<100;i++) rotate(sph, somepoint, i*2);" to generate 100 sph's rotated around a point, where in BRL-CAD, you need those 100 sph's in the .g file) |
| 21:25.36 | BenReilly | Haha, wow. Now I would imagine that in converting a .g file to .pov, it would be great to be able to take those 100 rotate() calls and drop them into a for loop, no? |
| 21:26.35 | BenReilly | Though that in itself would not be trivial for anything but a single call repeated x times. |
| 21:32.43 | BenReilly | Pardon me, I misread the last part of your example. |
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| 21:33.00 | BenReilly | In any case, I'm going to go poke around brl-cad and see what it's all about |
| 21:33.13 | BenReilly | Thanks for the info |
| 21:37.29 | BenReilly | And I'll be off. Perhaps I'll talk to you later. |
| 21:37.41 | *** part/#brlcad BenReilly (n=benreill@d154-5-59-169.bchsia.telus.net) | |
| 21:57.29 | Ralith | brlcad: the weird thing was, my local copies had *added* ^Ms |
| 21:57.33 | Ralith | also, thanks :] |
| 21:58.19 | Ralith | needs to decide on a project to apply for |
| 22:45.48 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@70.43.244.82.nw.nuvox.net) | |
| 22:54.35 | jonored_ | also needs to work out a project to apply for. Unsure as to whether to apply for finishing a real run through the G-code thing. |
| 23:38.41 | deeeffache | brlcad: im not sure, I was looking to find some companies that use it as their primary CAD software and have not found any so far. |