IRC log for #brlcad on 20090327

00:14.59 ``Erik http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1905311 O.O neat
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01:57.34 ``Erik dangit, this fortune cookie says "you are not a winner. try again." :(
02:10.18 starseeker reflects that's almost exactly how he felt doing taxes :-/
02:22.14 brlcad deeeffache: the U.S. Army Research Laboratory is one of the few places that use it as their primary
02:22.33 brlcad as it's specifically tuned to their needs (and comes from them and continues to have development funded by them, etc)
02:23.28 brlcad which actually happens to be more of an expert-driven CAE environment, but with strong solid modeling and geometry needs too
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05:34.15 deeeffache brlcad: thats good to hear. My initial assumption was that they open sourced it because they were moving on to something "better"
07:33.21 brlcad deeeffache: nope, it was opened sourced after many years of effort not because it's not in use, but quite the opposite -- ARL is heavily dependent on and supportive of BRL-CAD, but has relatively limited development capacity because of other priorities (they're not in the software business after all, they do research and analysis work)
07:35.56 brlcad going open source was (successfully) argued as a means to give back to the community (tax-payer funded) and encourage/allow open community development, to potentially see BRL-CAD development accelerate faster than ARL can directly fund (and for more varied interests) -- a win/win situation
07:47.49 Ralith ``Erik: a fortune cookie says that?
07:47.57 Ralith since when can you win something from fortune cookies
07:49.25 brlcad kudos to Peter Kan for getting his app in first/early :)
07:49.37 Ralith needs to do that.
07:50.00 brlcad indeed
07:50.38 brlcad keep in mind that you can get something in quickly and then continue to revise it through the sochop interface
07:51.16 Ralith oh, really?
07:51.21 Ralith that's handy
07:51.41 brlcad it's after the deadline that it gets locked down
07:53.16 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:53.39 brlcad morning d_rossberg
07:53.42 Ralith so why is the oop API project identified as high difficulty? I always thought of wrappers like that as being relatively straightforward.
07:53.55 d_rossberg moin moin brlcad
07:56.24 brlcad Ralith: mostly because it requires a fair bit of background knowledge that most people don't have -- knowledge of OOP design patterns, knowledge of our libraries (librt, libwdb, libged, libbn, libbu), (basic) familiarity with geometry engines like acis or granite, ..
07:57.10 brlcad it's also a lot of work, a lot of places to get something very wrong or make something very poorly designed
07:58.37 Ralith ah.
07:59.58 brlcad you can get away with only having two of those three, heck even just OO design .. but then you'd have to be even more adept at learning a large codebase quickly (and working on an effort that is already under way too)
08:00.34 Ralith is there documentation available for acis/granite?
08:00.59 brlcad just what you can find by searching, they're commercial CAD engines
08:01.28 Ralith well, that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't good docs up anywhere.
08:01.29 Ralith checks
08:01.29 brlcad don't really want to use them either (in case there are patent issues, for example), but should be aware of their scope and intent
08:03.31 deeeffache What happened to the project priorities on the wiki faq? http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ
08:05.56 Ralith Are the doxygen docs hosted on brlcad.org?
08:06.07 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34092 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/avs.c): added const specifiers to bu_avs_add_nonunique()'s parameters
08:07.46 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34093 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added bu_flip.c and bu_sync.c to stay in sync with Makefile.am
08:08.44 brlcad Ralith: mmm.. only an old copy, I believe
08:09.11 Ralith mightn't it be a Good Thing to make them available there?
08:09.13 brlcad http://brlcad.sourceforge.net/doxygen/index.html
08:09.20 brlcad sure would
08:09.43 brlcad just nobody has taken the time to do it, busy with other things
08:10.27 Ralith ah well. I'd take care of it were it covered by svn.
08:12.02 Ralith I don't suppose you'd know why g3d depends on the SVN version of OGRE?
08:12.54 brlcad deeeffache: fixed
08:13.04 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1304 10/wiki/FAQ: they're not in my dir
08:13.46 brlcad Ralith: I believe there were build system problems that was only fixed in latest svn -- mafm can surely recall better though
08:14.12 Ralith build system problems? O.o
08:14.17 Ralith well, I guess I'll wait for mafm to show.
08:14.29 Ralith and get ogre updated here while I'm at it.
08:14.49 brlcad d_rossberg: heh, subliminal slip? .. bu_* ? :-)
08:14.55 deeeffache blasted ~sean, thanks!
08:16.24 brlcad Ralith: assuming they'd build clean out of the box or with a simple bootstrapping, they'd be a prime candidate to become an svn:externals
08:17.13 Ralith brlcad: isn't it bad practice to make such assumptions of a trunk?
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08:17.36 Ralith (assuming that mafm was aware of the bugfix branch and refrained from its use because it didn't work)
08:17.37 brlcad never said it'd need to be trunk
08:17.53 Ralith I'm not familiar with externals
08:17.58 Ralith can you force certain revisions, or something?
08:19.05 brlcad it just takes a repository path like checkout, so yeah -- regular revision syntax works just fine
08:19.26 brlcad not that using trunk would be horrible -- they're actually a pretty stable trunk last time I was working off svn at least
08:20.16 Ralith their page gives that impression too, but it would still result in unpredicttable behavior
08:20.21 Ralith -t
08:20.40 Ralith especially if some sort of breaking API change came along.
08:22.13 Ralith well, I'll see if I can make g3d work with stable and make the whole issue moot.
08:22.25 brlcad goes both ways, arguably easier to fix (less time-intensive) the sooner the change occurs before code is entrenched around the old code/api
08:23.08 Ralith does make our own trunk less stable with respect to g3d, though.
08:23.17 Ralith not that that matters too much at this stage, I suppose
08:23.43 brlcad moot issue, though -- that wasn't/isn't a production release code yet -- it's a "get it working" project, basic fundamentals
08:23.49 *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.136.62)
08:24.48 brlcad more important at this point that it just not actually take up any time (which it didn't/doesn't), so the focus can be on the interface
08:25.12 Ralith yeah
08:35.06 Ralith brlcad: remind me why mafm didn't use CEGUI?
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11:44.14 starseeker notes that as of last night, trunk passed make distcheck on gentoo
11:49.32 *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.136.12)
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13:01.49 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34094 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): SetName() and SetMatrix() for leaf nodes
13:03.08 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34095 10/rt^3/trunk/include/brlcad/ConstDatabase.h: removed unnecessary virtual
13:06.36 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34096 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): read and write Object-attributes (bu_attribute_value_set)
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13:24.30 madant_ kanzure: stiny's papers are awesome albeit old, a good resource is cumincad .. the membership to acadia, caadria, ecaade etc. are pretty cheap but really worth it. I like the later approaches by Knight etc. Mathematical formalism of shape grammars is cute indeed but practical applications would be a greater awesomeness :D
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13:46.28 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1305 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface:
13:47.01 brlcad heh, punctuation
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13:55.38 brlcad howdy dreeves
13:55.49 dreeves hey
13:55.58 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1306 10/wiki/CoreInterface_Hallo_World_Example: coreInterface "Hello World" example
13:58.38 dreeves How's the rowing brlcad?
14:02.50 brlcad dreeves: chilly, but great
14:10.14 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1307 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: added the tree walker example
14:11.17 kanzure madant_: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/82dd7c56fcfaefb4? re: shape grammars.
14:16.40 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1308 10/wiki/CoreInterface_Tree_Walker_Example: coreInterface tree walker example
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14:55.07 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34097 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Combination.cpp: it looks like a non-region combination may have other boolean operations than unions too
15:48.06 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1309 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: added the PrintTitle example
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16:15.04 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34098 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: Add some notes/brainstorming related to the question of deciding if two points are the same point when they have error bounds.
17:20.06 starseeker make distcheck passes on the mac
17:51.51 brlcad woot
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18:00.56 *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
18:01.24 ``Erik stupid comcrap
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18:18.04 brlcad howdy beebee_
18:18.14 beebee_ hello
18:19.43 brlcad wonders if there are any others interested in being a gsoc mentor, send me a note in private or public if interested
18:21.41 beebee_ sorry, I am new to brlcad development, but i hope you find a mentor. I would love to see that some of the proposals gets implemented
18:22.06 ``Erik I can ask indianlarry for ya, if you haven't already
18:23.46 jonored On the other side, any suggestions for someone who wants to write up a proposal and likes math a bunch?
18:26.41 brlcad beebee_: we have mentors, just reminding a few other devs that hang out in here that they have the opportunity :)
18:26.57 brlcad ``Erik: I asked him, he said yes, but he still hasn't gone to sochop yet
18:27.25 brlcad jonored: heh, you mean suggestions for a project proposal?
18:28.01 ``Erik aight, got him on the page now
18:29.01 jonored brlcad: ...yes? I suppose I should go read the webpage again and try to find one...
18:30.40 brlcad jonored, the more math-intenseive suggestions are actually all annotated on the ideas page
18:30.43 brlcad just search for math
18:31.10 ``Erik all ur maff r belong to teh cheezburger kittehs
18:31.59 jonored Okay. I did finally work out that curvature of an intersection of a plane and a surface thing, and kinda liked the doing.
18:32.58 brlcad right, that was your patch last year, yes?
18:33.24 brlcad er, not surface, but line and curve?
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18:34.12 jonored Never passed stuff in. I was just digging through trying to be able to slice a surface with a plane and interpolate the curve with arcs.
18:36.14 jonored And there isn't somewhere that I know it'd fit outside of the reprap-specific stuff I was doing.
18:38.06 brlcad ah, jonored .. confused you with jdoliner :)
18:38.16 brlcad he's the one that had the line intersection patch
18:39.55 jdoliner hmm it just buzzed me
18:40.09 jdoliner I guess you weren't actually looking for me though
18:41.21 jonored Ah, okay. That would explain that. Would digging into constraints & parametrics be something viable?
18:42.28 brlcad jdoliner: nope, just talking about you
18:42.51 jdoliner I see, carry on then gents
18:42.56 brlcad jonored: possibly, but you'd need to coordinate that with madant since it's a previous gsoc project already "in progress"
18:43.28 brlcad you'd have to sort out who's working on what since he'll possibly continue working on it as well this year
18:43.35 brlcad (and you can't collaborate on a group project)
18:44.13 brlcad have to be separatable tasks with your own goals -- otherwise, yeah -- fantastic area to work on
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18:50.46 brlcad ``Erik: tell larry that he has to accept the invite next
18:51.22 ``Erik he's filling out the form right now
18:52.00 brlcad happy happy joy joy
18:52.12 jonored Okay. So interesting, but it'd take effort to fit it into gsoc. CSG of BREP?
18:52.47 ``Erik he's all good now?
18:53.36 ``Erik huh, actually, I coulda clicked in and accepted him, too
18:57.02 brlcad yep, he's good
18:57.32 brlcad jonored: CSG of BREP is pretty tough, but very high priority too :)
18:57.49 brlcad very much related to what starseeker and I are presently working on
19:11.50 starseeker hoovers up articles on intersection algorithms
19:13.29 jonored I should probably write that up then, it sounds like fun. And start reading. Or rather, continue reading, as now I've gotten distracted.
19:22.53 brlcad cool
19:23.00 brlcad that should be a fun project
19:23.15 brlcad jonored: you may also want to check out some of the more recent notes in doc/TODO.BREP
20:05.30 CIA-40 BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1311 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */
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20:18.30 starseeker raises eyebrows - apparently MeshLab is using Eigen. Hmm
20:32.25 starseeker make distcheck passed on 64 bit Redhat Linux
20:53.44 hippieindamakin8 hey brlcad
20:59.34 brlcad howdy hippieindamakin8
21:02.15 hippieindamakin8 hey rt now opennurbs just supports the brep and the interconversion of the representations is wat is expected isnt it
21:02.28 hippieindamakin8 i went through the papers of esolid and bit of boole
21:04.26 hippieindamakin8 brlcad, wat do u exactly mean by BREP-on-BREP CSG evaluations ?
21:06.45 brlcad basically, you have some spline-surface object (a NURBS object) and another spline-surface object that overlap and there's a specified boolean evaluation of subtraction, intersection, or union -- evaluate the surfaces and derive the resulting spline-surface object
21:07.57 hippieindamakin8 brlcad, this includes nm objects
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21:08.44 brlcad what are nm objects
21:08.58 hippieindamakin8 non - manifold
21:09.28 hippieindamakin8 brlcad, the project involves computationally optimised evaluations of the breps
21:09.38 hippieindamakin8 is it ?
21:12.19 brlcad they're not optimised
21:12.23 brlcad they're just evaluated
21:12.44 brlcad they from an unevaluated form to an evaluated form
21:13.09 brlcad and no, I don't think it'd necessarily need to include non-manifold geometry but it would need to handle n-manifold geometry
21:13.11 hippieindamakin8 yeah basically the evaluation of the booleans is wat has to be done
21:14.16 hippieindamakin8 brlcad, yeah true it is very rarely that we encounter the non-manifold geometries (may be because of the degenerate cases of the boolean operations on csgs)
21:15.05 brlcad wonders if hippieindamakin8 has something against the word "what"
21:15.17 hippieindamakin8 :)
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22:03.58 Ralith hey jonored!
22:04.00 Ralith how's the slicer?
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22:48.53 ``Erik O.o
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23:43.26 bjorkintosh jonored did not want to talk about the slicer.
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