| 00:50.49 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Pacman87 07http://brlcad.org * r1355 10/wiki/User:Pacman87: Updated to include 2009 GSoC proposal for discussion |
| 01:03.37 | madant | still envies pacman87 last year renderings ;) |
| 01:03.59 | madant | still evnies pacman87's last year renderings ;) |
| 01:25.26 | bjorkintosh | twice! |
| 01:34.58 | madant | produces a lot of IRC Vomit for a 1 channel irc person |
| 02:45.05 | yukonbob | evening, cadheads |
| 02:53.00 | typ0 | my mged isn't launching |
| 02:53.22 | typ0 | crashes with bus error on this line: |
| 02:53.26 | typ0 | DisplayWidth(pubvars->dpy, |
| 02:53.27 | typ0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:53.59 | typ0 | in X_open_dm() of libdm/dm-X.c |
| 02:54.37 | typ0 | pubvars->dpy value is 25268232 |
| 02:55.05 | typ0 | DefaultScreen returns 1 |
| 02:57.35 | yukonbob | typ0: details? Platform, BRL-CAD version... |
| 02:57.54 | typ0 | Mac OS X 10.5.6 , brl-cad svn trunk |
| 02:58.00 | typ0 | PPC |
| 02:59.10 | typ0 | brl-cad has version number 7.14.5 |
| 02:59.45 | yukonbob | thinks .6 was just published today... |
| 02:59.58 | typ0 | yeah i already ran svn update |
| 03:00.06 | yukonbob | (not that I'd expact it to fix this issue...) |
| 03:00.46 | yukonbob | typ0: I'm -not- a Mac guy -- have to wait for somebody else to chime in :P |
| 03:01.09 | typ0 | ;) |
| 03:08.44 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith|trip (i=40f692fb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1159573b4dec5e26) | |
| 03:10.36 | typ0 | DisplayWidth should return my LCD screen width ? |
| 03:24.29 | Ralith|trip | checks in some more |
| 03:29.14 | typ0 | well all the X related functions are crashing for me in this file |
| 03:29.19 | typ0 | for some strange reason |
| 03:37.16 | yukonbob | typ0: you running X, or stricly Aqua? |
| 03:37.21 | yukonbob | *strictly |
| 03:37.59 | typ0 | X11, latest code from Apple |
| 03:38.03 | typ0 | from here: http://xquartz.macosforge.org/ |
| 03:44.31 | yukonbob | prepares to fly out... |
| 03:44.41 | yukonbob | hope your problem is solved soon, typ0 |
| 03:46.09 | typ0 | cheer |
| 03:46.09 | typ0 | s |
| 03:46.19 | typ0 | going to slee |
| 03:46.20 | typ0 | p |
| 03:47.52 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-102.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
| 03:52.08 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14) | |
| 03:57.33 | *** join/#brlcad typ0 (n=coder@um-sd06-125-2.uni-mb.si) | |
| 06:26.00 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.149.45) | |
| 06:30.43 | hippieindamakin8 | good morning Ralith madant |
| 10:17.18 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@cl-213.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) | |
| 10:32.26 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 10:43.17 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38) | |
| 12:00.36 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.133.211) | |
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| 12:38.23 | *** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de) | |
| 12:40.04 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 12:48.29 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) | |
| 13:00.15 | brlcad | no kidding |
| 13:05.27 | ``Erik | my yawn was just waking up, not "been awake for 8 years now" : |
| 13:05.28 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:47.15 | Malyce | Urm, I selected autoconf, automake and libtools in the installer package for Cygwin. Is this sufficient |
| 13:47.16 | Malyce | ? |
| 13:50.54 | ``Erik | should be, um |
| 13:51.06 | ``Erik | automake should list autoconf as a dependancy |
| 13:51.19 | ``Erik | you might need some X compatability shtuff |
| 13:52.02 | ``Erik | the package has an "autogen.sh" script that will attempt to look for stuff and run the right programs to generate configure for you |
| 13:52.30 | ``Erik | if you're on windows and you have msvc, there are msvc build packages I think in misc/ |
| 13:52.39 | Malyce | I will be using --without-x-11 |
| 13:52.50 | Malyce | x-11 is a pain in the *** |
| 13:52.54 | ``Erik | that'd be --without-x11 |
| 13:53.00 | ``Erik | there's no dash there :) |
| 13:53.06 | Malyce | k |
| 13:53.31 | Malyce | I was worried about the M4 and perl dependencies that Autoconf and automake have |
| 13:53.41 | ``Erik | we're a unix shop (not linux, unix), so disabling X might be busted |
| 13:53.56 | Malyce | I did see some perl packages in the install and selected them |
| 13:54.06 | Malyce | I pray not |
| 13:54.29 | ``Erik | *shrug* give it a go, if ya see problems you don't understand, throw 'em out in channel, someone will tell a something, eventually :) |
| 13:54.55 | Malyce | I couldn't find M4 support in the install package |
| 13:55.05 | Malyce | I looked under dev |
| 13:55.13 | ``Erik | m4 is a core thing, autoconf depends on it |
| 13:55.13 | Malyce | I hope it is supported |
| 13:55.25 | ``Erik | if you have autoconf, you have m4 |
| 13:55.27 | Malyce | I hope the installer is smart enough to realise that |
| 13:55.30 | Malyce | ok |
| 13:57.03 | Malyce | how do I do a svn checkout from sourceforge ? |
| 13:57.19 | Malyce | I heard that I shouldn't just download the GNU tarball |
| 13:57.22 | ``Erik | um, you read the instructions on the sourceforge page. |
| 14:00.23 | ``Erik | got it rolling? |
| 14:00.32 | ``Erik | um, it's /brlcad/brlcad/trunk iirc |
| 14:01.39 | Malyce | that's what I wanted |
| 14:01.53 | Malyce | The help page on SF didn't say anything |
| 14:01.54 | Malyce | thx |
| 14:02.12 | ``Erik | np, a 'source view' woulda given ya that |
| 14:03.04 | ``Erik | I'm sure gory details are on http://brlcad.org, too :) |
| 14:04.10 | Malyce | http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/trunk iirc ? |
| 14:04.59 | ``Erik | my repo has https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk |
| 14:05.35 | ``Erik | that's an accredited account, though, yours would be http: until you get a commit bit |
| 14:05.54 | Malyce | you mean become a SF member first ? |
| 14:06.20 | ``Erik | you must have an sf account to commit, and you must prove that you're semi-competent before you get commit access |
| 14:06.21 | ``Erik | :) |
| 14:06.39 | ``Erik | we usually request a simple patch via the sf tracker |
| 14:10.04 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) | |
| 14:24.10 | mafm | hi folks |
| 14:28.43 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) | |
| 14:33.15 | dreeves | brlcad did you ever get a chance to check out that patch...no big deal I was just making sure there wasn't still something wrong with it |
| 14:35.03 | Malyce | Isn't that the only GSOC patch so far ? |
| 14:37.12 | dreeves | no I'm not part of the GSOC |
| 14:40.15 | brlcad | ~cadsvn |
| 14:40.15 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad |
| 14:40.43 | Malyce | Where are the GSOC patches then ? |
| 14:41.03 | Malyce | I thought they would be in the SF tracker |
| 14:41.06 | brlcad | dreeves: I looked through it and was better -- just hadn't tested it yet |
| 14:41.27 | brlcad | dreeves: and nice follow up on the license/copyright check |
| 14:41.33 | ``Erik | can the https avenue be used by anonymous? |
| 14:41.50 | brlcad | I'd talked to Elaine about that paper and the work, she didn't have the source link though (and acm had since dropped it) |
| 14:42.02 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah |
| 14:42.08 | ``Erik | coo' |
| 14:42.18 | brlcad | it'll just prompt for user/pass on first commit |
| 14:43.04 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) | |
| 14:46.23 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b %*!*IriX64@*] by brlcad | |
| 14:46.37 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b %*!smallfoo*@*] by brlcad | |
| 14:46.53 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b *!*gruni@rootgeek.org] by brlcad | |
| 14:46.55 | ``Erik | wow, banned even? |
| 14:47.07 | brlcad | no, quiets are implemented in the banlist |
| 14:47.14 | brlcad | that's the leading % |
| 14:47.21 | ``Erik | oh, used to efnet :) |
| 14:47.37 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b *!smallfoo*@*] by brlcad | |
| 14:47.43 | ``Erik | woulda thunkt +m and +v's around |
| 14:47.49 | brlcad | there, I'll get it right eventually :) |
| 14:48.20 | brlcad | too much effort, have to voice everyone instead of the one that was causing the problem |
| 14:48.26 | ``Erik | *server migration supersubliminal message* |
| 14:48.40 | brlcad | and he wasn't trying to subvert it, did well |
| 14:49.09 | ``Erik | he's a good guy, I like him... works hard, just not a guru |
| 14:49.30 | ``Erik | I want to help him maximize his contribution |
| 14:49.52 | ``Erik | so he can have synergy with the, uh, cmmi, uh, buzzword, something |
| 14:50.34 | dreeves | brlcad no problem on the code making sure you weren't still waiting on me for something...I have the source code for that paper if you want it |
| 14:50.49 | ``Erik | url? |
| 14:52.40 | *** join/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-154-89.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 14:53.13 | Briggs | does brl cad have a central library for things like vectors, matrices, triangle/ray intersections/ect or are routines for these things spread across the source code? |
| 14:53.13 | ``Erik | assigns it to brlcad :D |
| 14:53.16 | ``Erik | *dodge* |
| 14:53.34 | ``Erik | sorta, include/vmath.h has an awful lot |
| 14:53.48 | Briggs | danke |
| 14:54.02 | ``Erik | intersections are handled by librt |
| 14:54.18 | Briggs | right. |
| 14:54.24 | Briggs | will scour the source. |
| 14:54.45 | Briggs | hrmm. anyone have experience browsing brl cads source with cscope? does it deal with it well? |
| 14:55.00 | ``Erik | our geometry has negatives, we don't solve intersection until the ray is fired |
| 14:55.19 | ``Erik | yeah, cscope works well, takes a good chunk of time to generate the hash, though |
| 14:55.31 | Briggs | I can always go make a cup of coffee or something :) |
| 14:55.44 | ``Erik | ~2m on my workstation |
| 14:55.54 | Briggs | ahh thats not horrible |
| 14:56.15 | ``Erik | dude, that's 120 seconds of starting at a blank screen |
| 14:56.16 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:56.47 | Briggs | it takes about that long to make a good cup of coffee... |
| 14:56.49 | Briggs | :) |
| 14:56.54 | Briggs | or tea |
| 14:57.02 | ``Erik | depends on your definition of good... |
| 14:57.10 | Briggs | this is true |
| 14:57.24 | ``Erik | I have the press and all that, but I seem to be willing to mix some instants to get my cup |
| 14:57.26 | ``Erik | :( |
| 14:57.37 | ``Erik | I have friends that would stab me for that |
| 14:57.39 | Briggs | haha |
| 14:57.50 | Briggs | I was going to get one of those one-cup thingies. |
| 14:58.08 | Briggs | but instant is probably even less hassle. |
| 14:58.43 | ``Erik | tell ya what, though, I have a one cup water heater, I throw a teaspoon loaded with 'mountain brew' and one general int 'french vanilla', it's a decent cup |
| 15:06.42 | ``Erik | brlcad: I honestly don't think you should waste your time or mine moving hunks of metal, if we can tap an m3 guy and like rich, that's be a better utilization of assets, no? I don't grok why we can't trust them with that |
| 15:07.53 | ``Erik | we do remote clean shutdown, they do the monkey work, hit the power buttons, we verify they came up... mebbe stop by and see that the bolts are good, it's donw |
| 15:10.52 | ``Erik | fuck fuck fuckity fuck *pats down teh hairs that are trying to go pointy* |
| 15:23.54 | mafm | (obcenity overflow) |
| 15:29.28 | Briggs | wonders why lists in python have no 'copy' method. |
| 15:29.31 | Briggs | whoops, wrong channel. |
| 15:30.54 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14) | |
| 15:32.12 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.141.240) | |
| 15:36.07 | mafm | hi madant |
| 15:41.57 | ``Erik | Briggs: cuz guido didn't say so? :D |
| 16:05.22 | brlcad | Briggs: because it's built in? listA = list() ; listB = list(listA) |
| 16:05.54 | Briggs | brlcad: this is true |
| 16:06.24 | Briggs | brlcad: just that python is usually consistent about these things so I was suprised to find 'somelist.copy()' didnt work |
| 16:06.44 | Briggs | well I guess a lot of basic builtin types dont have copy() method... hrmmm |
| 16:06.51 | Briggs | nevermind, was wrong channel anyway like I said :) |
| 16:08.34 | *** part/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-154-89.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 16:10.10 | mafm | brlcad: I've been sidetracked yesterday, I haven't completed my application. however, the biggest problem as you know is that I haven't had time to prepare for gsoc, and the projects where I could be more productive are quite vague |
| 16:10.48 | mafm | kind of, I cannot think of any workable plan linking the new GUI and GS if I don't know much about the details of GS, and the GUI is still to be desined and built |
| 16:11.11 | mafm | designed* even |
| 16:11.56 | mafm | and I think that I can still edit the application, but I guess that this would be cheating |
| 16:20.48 | brlcad | it's not cheating if it lets you, don't think it allows you to edit more than the abstract |
| 16:25.16 | poolio | well then couldn't you just have a really really long abstract? |
| 16:41.54 | madant | there is a word limit .. 500 ? |
| 16:46.33 | poolio | ah well |
| 16:57.27 | mafm | 500 characters |
| 16:57.42 | mafm | and I left blank the content too |
| 17:00.25 | mafm | it's not editable anyway |
| 17:19.47 | *** join/#brlcad francois (n=francois@cho94-4-82-234-190-36.fbx.proxad.net) | |
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| 19:15.17 | *** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de) | |
| 19:20.28 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38) | |
| 19:32.56 | Malyce | sh autogen.sh |
| 19:33.27 | Malyce | line 79: $'\r': command not found |
| 19:34.35 | Malyce | line 97: syntax error near unexpected token '$'{\r'' |
| 19:35.08 | Malyce | line 97: 'ident (){ |
| 19:35.48 | Malyce | is this a GBS problem ? |
| 19:37.36 | *** part/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38) | |
| 19:37.59 | ``Erik | huh, are you using windows or something? |
| 19:38.07 | Malyce | cygwin on xp |
| 19:41.31 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38) | |
| 19:48.13 | Malyce | I did select Autoconf, Automake and libtools in the setup package |
| 19:48.34 | Malyce | mebbe they are not the latest versions ? |
| 19:48.59 | ``Erik | I imagine it's a line ending issue |
| 19:49.28 | Malyce | autoconf 2.63 |
| 19:49.39 | Malyce | automake 1.10 |
| 19:50.14 | ``Erik | hrm, svn says that file is 'native' line ending :/ |
| 19:50.16 | Malyce | libtools 2.2.7a |
| 19:50.27 | Malyce | what must I do ? |
| 19:52.18 | ``Erik | I don't know, I'm guessing that your pull has some "not quite right" files :( I don't know, I'm sorry :( |
| 19:53.05 | Malyce | rats |
| 19:53.26 | Malyce | all I want to do, is compile a couple of files from core c++ interfaces |
| 19:53.43 | Malyce | any workarounds ? |
| 19:54.06 | ``Erik | windows is not a core target, and cygwin is not the usual windows avenue for us :( |
| 19:54.24 | Malyce | then, what is ? |
| 19:54.34 | ``Erik | \r is C for a line return, dos/windows kinda looks at \n as a \r\n |
| 19:54.48 | ``Erik | mac, bsd, linux, irix, solaris, uhm |
| 19:54.58 | Malyce | wouldn't mind switching |
| 19:55.02 | Malyce | just not right now |
| 19:55.11 | ``Erik | winderz has msvc8 and 9 proj files |
| 19:55.32 | ``Erik | if you can figure out how to make it work on cygwin, that'd be awesome |
| 19:55.50 | Malyce | Maybe I will. Just, not today |
| 19:55.57 | Malyce | will msvc express do ? |
| 19:56.19 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know |
| 19:56.34 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14) | |
| 19:56.36 | Malyce | perhaps I should wait till BRL shows up |
| 19:57.22 | Malyce | oh, btw, where do the GSOC patches go ? |
| 19:57.29 | Malyce | not the SF tracker ? |
| 20:00.11 | ``Erik | sf tracker is good, mention your irc handle in the info or something |
| 20:00.26 | *** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-21.cust.tele2.ch) | |
| 20:00.52 | ``Erik | either brlcad or I will review it and annotate internal info |
| 20:01.21 | ``Erik | and either apply it, or hand out a commit bit and let you apply it |
| 20:01.24 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 20:01.42 | Malyce | was just curious |
| 20:01.51 | Malyce | all the patches there seem to be somewhat old |
| 20:02.04 | ``Erik | yes, we knock the easy ones out fast |
| 20:02.13 | Malyce | with GSOC happening, I woulda thought it would be filled with GSOC patches |
| 20:02.34 | Malyce | or mebbe everyone is working late like me |
| 20:02.36 | ``Erik | some patches are many years old, most gsoc patches don't sit more than 24 hours |
| 20:02.46 | Malyce | ahhh |
| 20:03.07 | Malyce | is that because they don't do anything useful ? |
| 20:03.15 | Malyce | just demonstrate coding capability ? |
| 20:04.17 | Malyce | or because they are no good ? |
| 20:04.32 | ``Erik | more a factor of the time a commiter has to apply |
| 20:04.58 | Malyce | ? |
| 20:05.13 | ``Erik | if I can look at a patch, vouch for it and apply it in 15 minutes, it's in... if it takes a week to understand, well, I might not have a week to spend doing that |
| 20:05.46 | ``Erik | if it's an important patch, I'll spend more time than if it's not *shrug* |
| 20:05.54 | Malyce | so, a patch I make should be very readable, or its out ? |
| 20:06.19 | ``Erik | your patch should be correct, the result code should be readable |
| 20:06.42 | ``Erik | and it's all shades of grey, a patch readability alone is not in/out stuff :) |
| 20:07.04 | ``Erik | get to codin'! |
| 20:07.10 | Malyce | I have been |
| 20:07.18 | Malyce | In the time it takes to compile this thing |
| 20:07.32 | Malyce | How many GSOC patches have been submitted so far ? |
| 20:07.53 | ``Erik | I don't know, and if I did, I don't know if I should tell you :) |
| 20:08.04 | Malyce | I see |
| 20:08.08 | Malyce | why not ? |
| 20:08.29 | ``Erik | for which? |
| 20:08.41 | Malyce | why if you knew, you wouldnt tell |
| 20:09.01 | ``Erik | the latter, I don't want to foster a competitive environment, I don't think gsoc is about winners and losers |
| 20:09.16 | Malyce | its not ? |
| 20:09.20 | Malyce | hahaha |
| 20:09.54 | Malyce | A 5000 dollar internship *is* about winners and losers |
| 20:10.05 | Malyce | right now, I am struggling not to be the latter |
| 20:10.14 | Malyce | sorry, 4500 dollars |
| 20:10.16 | ``Erik | well, they're flexible, their goal is to see good things done, and yeah, $5k is a nice little bump, but that's not the point of it, that's just a carrot |
| 20:10.29 | Malyce | pretty juicy carrot |
| 20:10.44 | ``Erik | 5k, 4.5 to the student, .5 to the mentor (but we waive the mentor $'s) |
| 20:11.26 | Malyce | does the .5 then go to BRL-CAD as an org ? |
| 20:11.31 | Malyce | or is it just gone ? |
| 20:11.42 | ``Erik | do up your patch, do your application or two, we discuss the merits of the projects and people |
| 20:11.54 | ``Erik | we waive it, we don't accept it at all. google keeps it |
| 20:12.16 | Malyce | why ? its not like google needs more $ |
| 20:12.27 | ``Erik | $500 is not worth the liability of for pay activities combining with gov't work |
| 20:12.51 | Malyce | I see. There are too many strings attached ? |
| 20:13.03 | ``Erik | *shrug* it's a risk |
| 20:13.35 | ``Erik | my salary is tax dollars, so getting paid by google is ... double-charging effectively |
| 20:14.03 | Malyce | what is your line of work ? |
| 20:15.00 | ``Erik | computer scientist, us army research lab, survibility/lethality analyses directorate, software development branch, advanced computer systems tema |
| 20:15.38 | Malyce | You are one of the original BRL-CAD ppl ? |
| 20:15.44 | Malyce | *GASPS* |
| 20:15.48 | ``Erik | I've been accused of being a real computer scientist, not a sofwtare engineer |
| 20:15.52 | ``Erik | not original, but on the team |
| 20:16.07 | Malyce | I see |
| 20:16.15 | Malyce | Yes, they are very different things |
| 20:16.28 | Malyce | I am more of the opposite |
| 20:16.42 | Malyce | although I am supposed to be a CS, I am becoming a CE |
| 20:17.14 | ``Erik | yeh, pointy hairs like sloc, not idea pontification |
| 20:17.16 | mafm | Malyce: re:gsoc patches: you can see that in the patch manager of sourceforge, with a bit of guessing |
| 20:17.33 | Malyce | is brlcad also one of the founding ppl ? |
| 20:17.45 | Malyce | mafm: Yes, I did that yesterday |
| 20:17.55 | Malyce | I am a curious crow |
| 20:17.57 | ``Erik | 10 days of grunt coding seems more impressive to them than lava lamp meditation for 5 days and 2 days coding |
| 20:18.21 | Malyce | CS is *hard* |
| 20:18.34 | ``Erik | brlcad is the dude kinda being our point guard, but he was shitting hsi diapers when BRL-CAD started |
| 20:18.36 | Malyce | as hard as abstract math |
| 20:18.46 | Malyce | i see |
| 20:19.01 | Malyce | are there other founding members still here ? |
| 20:19.09 | ``Erik | no |
| 20:19.20 | Malyce | hey, are you there in one of the pix on the site ? |
| 20:19.23 | ``Erik | the core guy until 2000 died in a car accident |
| 20:19.35 | Malyce | ow |
| 20:19.43 | ``Erik | other importnat people have retired or moved on to other projects |
| 20:20.12 | ``Erik | pix on the site? |
| 20:21.14 | ``Erik | if you look at ohloh, it makes things pretty obvious :) |
| 20:21.17 | Malyce | #!/bin/sh |
| 20:21.17 | Malyce | # a u t o g e n . s h |
| 20:21.17 | Malyce | # |
| 20:21.17 | Malyce | # Copyright (c) 2005-2009 United States Government as represented by |
| 20:21.17 | Malyce | # the U.S. Army Research Laboratory. |
| 20:21.22 | *** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de) | |
| 20:21.34 | ``Erik | dude, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz |
| 20:22.23 | Malyce | oh hell |
| 20:22.25 | Malyce | sorry |
| 20:22.28 | Malyce | http://brlcad.org/gallery/d/230-2/Mike+Muss.jpg |
| 20:22.32 | Malyce | that's what I meant |
| 20:22.34 | ``Erik | I came tot he lab in '03 and one of my first tasks was to rewrite teh build system from cake into automake, so those am files are all fairly new |
| 20:22.51 | Malyce | so, that can't be you there |
| 20:23.07 | ``Erik | hm, no, that's mike in the chair, uh, owen something standing with the beard |
| 20:23.21 | ``Erik | though one of those pdp top-plates might be on my book case |
| 20:23.36 | mafm | Malyce: the point is that patches are public and are to be submitted there, so no need to ask :) |
| 20:24.06 | Malyce | mafm: but there are no recent ones, except one by drreeves |
| 20:24.25 | Malyce | mafm: it can't be that noone has submitted a patch yet |
| 20:24.35 | ``Erik | that's where the patches go |
| 20:24.51 | Malyce | Erik: I remember looking at the pic last year or the year before |
| 20:25.03 | Malyce | and thinking, there was a time when ppl wore that to work ? |
| 20:25.16 | Malyce | 'the suit' |
| 20:25.16 | ``Erik | was the 70's, man :D |
| 20:25.17 | mafm | Malyce: that'd be the case :) |
| 20:25.39 | Malyce | *GASPS AGAIN* |
| 20:25.45 | Malyce | that can't be right |
| 20:26.03 | ``Erik | make a patch, submit it! |
| 20:26.07 | Malyce | on it |
| 20:26.08 | ``Erik | shut up and code! |
| 20:26.09 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:26.20 | Malyce | but its no good if I can't even compile my code, now is it ? |
| 20:26.28 | Malyce | which is why I wait |
| 20:26.28 | mafm | the deadline for patches is in 1 week or so, not sure -- but the sooner the better |
| 20:26.47 | Malyce | my problem is that I am still struggling to compile the svn checkout |
| 20:26.59 | Malyce | not much I can do till I get that done |
| 20:27.06 | ``Erik | we won't straight up say no, if you put down a patch that ain't right, we'll tell you and see about making it right |
| 20:27.34 | Malyce | I would be ashamed to submit something I did not feel I tried 100% to make right |
| 20:27.40 | ``Erik | but we'll get to some point where we sit down and try to order applicants, we have to come up with a real order and start saying "sorry, you didn't make it" |
| 20:27.49 | ``Erik | so it's a lot better to submit early |
| 20:28.11 | Malyce | Then I will submit a not-yet compiled patch now |
| 20:28.16 | Malyce | and fix it as soon as I can |
| 20:28.32 | ``Erik | rather you got it working, first, but *shrug* |
| 20:29.10 | ``Erik | if a patch is JUST to make it work on a certain platform, that's a good thing |
| 20:29.35 | ``Erik | if a patch is "I did stuff, btu nothing works", well.. what are we supposed to think about that? :D |
| 20:29.38 | ``Erik | know what I mean? |
| 20:30.28 | mafm | 1. Patch doesn't compile |
| 20:30.30 | mafm | 2. ??? |
| 20:30.36 | mafm | 3. No profit |
| 20:30.37 | Malyce | so I wait then, till brlcad shows up and gives me a hint on how to compile the checkout |
| 20:30.48 | mafm | :) |
| 20:30.52 | ``Erik | I don't know if he can give you a hint |
| 20:30.55 | Malyce | in the meantime, I am coding, just can't compile anything |
| 20:31.04 | Malyce | any suggestions then ? |
| 20:31.05 | ``Erik | you're not in our turf, dude, :( |
| 20:31.19 | ``Erik | I'd imagine it's a line ending related issue |
| 20:31.24 | ``Erik | but that's an educated guess |
| 20:31.35 | Malyce | yes, I plan to burn my current machine and get one with linux |
| 20:31.48 | Malyce | just as soon as I get this code to compile |
| 20:31.50 | ``Erik | I mean, windows? really? I have one windows machine, it's at work and I don't touch it |
| 20:31.57 | Malyce | sorry |
| 20:32.08 | ``Erik | if you can figure out how to make it work on cygwin, that'd be awesome |
| 20:32.18 | ``Erik | but it's not like we left it broken on purpose |
| 20:32.24 | Malyce | My older machine would have been able to get linux running up and fast |
| 20:32.28 | Malyce | but its kaputs |
| 20:32.35 | ``Erik | if we knew the answer, it'd be fixed in teh repo :) |
| 20:32.42 | Malyce | and the new one is a lightweight with SSD HD |
| 20:32.54 | Malyce | installing Cygwin typically takes 2 hours |
| 20:33.05 | Malyce | installing an OS would be a nightmare |
| 20:33.17 | Malyce | so, I am playing it safe for just now |
| 20:33.25 | mafm | :D |
| 20:33.36 | mafm | installing current linuz distros takes less than 2h for sure |
| 20:33.40 | Malyce | sorry, I am a poor student |
| 20:33.46 | Malyce | on a standard HD, yes |
| 20:33.53 | Malyce | not on flash memory |
| 20:34.39 | mafm | not really :) |
| 20:35.00 | Malyce | I tried running VNC server on one of my lab machines |
| 20:35.05 | Malyce | they are all Solaris |
| 20:35.08 | mafm | now, I'm not telling you to install it, and it's a bit difficult if you haven't done it before, but for sure it doesn't take that much time |
| 20:35.12 | Malyce | but I don't have rights on them |
| 20:35.16 | ``Erik | well, tell ya what, we don't care what os you run. btu this ain't a class, we're not inventing work for people, so no one has all the answer for ya |
| 20:35.26 | Malyce | I understand |
| 20:35.36 | ``Erik | if you push and fix a platform we don't currently support, that's totally awesome |
| 20:35.37 | Malyce | I don't wanna look like a whine baby |
| 20:35.40 | ``Erik | but we don't invent work |
| 20:35.45 | Malyce | of cours |
| 20:35.56 | andax | mafm: as long as you do not compile your distribution from source, it takes less than 2 hours, yes |
| 20:36.20 | Malyce | is there any way, I can only compile a portion of the code ? |
| 20:36.23 | Malyce | there should be |
| 20:36.36 | mafm | andax: yes well, I was not talking about gentoo :D |
| 20:36.37 | ``Erik | had a rhel cd that went from naked system to enterprise production system in about 15 minutes O.o many years ago |
| 20:36.39 | Malyce | no linking, only compiling |
| 20:36.54 | ``Erik | um, if your'e on the automake system, I made a "depends" rule for make |
| 20:37.32 | mafm | Malyce: haven't you got linuz accounts in the lab? |
| 20:37.40 | Malyce | I guess its hands-on gcc/g++ compiling |
| 20:37.41 | Malyce | yes |
| 20:37.44 | Malyce | but no rights |
| 20:37.51 | Malyce | :D |
| 20:38.01 | ``Erik | it's in misc/Makefile.defs I think, you can do, like, cd src/rt && make depends and it'll "do the right thing" |
| 20:38.07 | ``Erik | no install dealie, tho |
| 20:38.15 | Malyce | that's fine |
| 20:38.24 | ``Erik | that'd be a great pre-acceptance patch |
| 20:38.40 | Malyce | sarcasm ? |
| 20:39.04 | ``Erik | no, seriously, if you make something like "install-recursive", that'd be awesome |
| 20:39.27 | Malyce | you mean if I can make the thing install on cygwin ? |
| 20:39.45 | ``Erik | or grab a linux box or whatever |
| 20:40.09 | ``Erik | any other student looking for a patch idea, whatever :) |
| 20:40.09 | brlcad | Malyce: you need help on compiling? |
| 20:40.12 | Malyce | Yes, I will hunt for one. Should be able to borrow one |
| 20:40.14 | brlcad | that's not a good sign.. :) |
| 20:40.16 | Malyce | uh huh |
| 20:40.24 | Malyce | its on cygwin |
| 20:40.30 | Malyce | i followed the steps |
| 20:40.38 | Malyce | but autogen.sh died on me |
| 20:40.47 | brlcad | is cygwin your only platform? |
| 20:40.52 | Malyce | for now |
| 20:40.54 | ``Erik | \r issue on cyggy |
| 20:40.59 | ``Erik | autogen.sh craps out |
| 20:40.59 | ``Erik | just back from crew? :) |
| 20:41.12 | brlcad | no, just been wandering around the house doing things |
| 20:41.30 | brlcad | watched heroes, had lunch, took some pics, worked on the house |
| 20:41.38 | brlcad | got through e-mail |
| 20:41.40 | ``Erik | didja read backlog? I'm hoping I didn't say incorrect stuff |
| 20:41.48 | brlcad | not really |
| 20:41.49 | brlcad | at least not yet |
| 20:41.56 | andax | the fastest of my installation of a open source operating system was DOSminix2.0. It is DOS-dependent, therefore not a entire operating system but runs very nicely out of a Windows-Box |
| 20:41.59 | Malyce | ok. I guess I will try stealing someone's machine then |
| 20:42.19 | brlcad | Malyce: you should be able to get it to work |
| 20:42.27 | brlcad | I've done a full build on cygwin several times |
| 20:42.34 | Malyce | that's great news |
| 20:42.39 | Malyce | do advise |
| 20:42.46 | ``Erik | malyce: we want cyggy and windows people, we just don't do it ourselves much |
| 20:43.07 | brlcad | if you have \r's in your files, then you maybe got the files in a bad way |
| 20:43.14 | brlcad | where are those sources from? |
| 20:43.14 | Malyce | I remember selecting Autoconf, Automake and libtools during installation |
| 20:43.18 | Malyce | SF |
| 20:43.24 | brlcad | how? |
| 20:43.28 | ``Erik | autogen.sh has the 'native' eol style int he repo |
| 20:43.29 | brlcad | from svn through cygwin? |
| 20:44.02 | brlcad | and is it a binary svn from tigris, or from somewhere else? |
| 20:44.20 | Malyce | http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk |
| 20:44.29 | Malyce | svn checkout |
| 20:44.36 | ``Erik | the svn.ex |
| 20:44.39 | brlcad | if you checked out with an svn built *in* cygwin, it should work just fine |
| 20:44.41 | Malyce | through win xp |
| 20:45.42 | ``Erik | no, where did you get the svn executable |
| 20:45.42 | Malyce | svn, exe ? |
| 20:45.42 | brlcad | yes.. where? |
| 20:45.42 | Malyce | I am using tortoise on Win XP |
| 20:45.42 | brlcad | there's your problem |
| 20:45.42 | Malyce | should I have done that from inside Cygwin ? |
| 20:45.43 | brlcad | if you're going to check out the sources outside cygwin, it makes "windows" text files |
| 20:45.43 | Malyce | I see |
| 20:45.45 | ``Erik | with the extra \r |
| 20:45.46 | brlcad | if you check out within cygwin, it'll make "*nix" text files |
| 20:45.51 | ``Erik | <- points up where he siad that :D |
| 20:45.56 | Malyce | ha |
| 20:45.59 | brlcad | see, listen to ``Erik |
| 20:45.59 | Malyce | cool |
| 20:46.09 | brlcad | and don't mix your gui/cygwin tools :) |
| 20:46.19 | brlcad | if you do a tortoise checkout, build it with studio |
| 20:46.24 | Malyce | now I need to figure out how to get cygwin to connect ot the net |
| 20:46.26 | Malyce | allright |
| 20:46.27 | brlcad | why aren't you building with studio? |
| 20:46.30 | Malyce | I could |
| 20:47.08 | ``Erik | now I wouldn't have known that tortoise screws the pooch like that, but *shrug* \r is the issue, windows vs unix |
| 20:47.20 | Malyce | msvc express 2008 will do ? |
| 20:47.22 | brlcad | yeah |
| 20:47.27 | Malyce | ok |
| 20:47.27 | ``Erik | should |
| 20:47.36 | brlcad | you could even fix the problem, because probably only autogen.sh is all that needs fixed |
| 20:47.43 | brlcad | the source files will be parsed okay by gcc |
| 20:47.56 | brlcad | could just strip the carriages |
| 20:47.59 | Malyce | allright |
| 20:48.13 | Malyce | all 35 pages of them ? |
| 20:48.19 | brlcad | huh? |
| 20:48.24 | brlcad | pages? |
| 20:48.27 | ``Erik | I like the notion of a clean build on cygwin |
| 20:48.38 | Malyce | when I paste the text in an editor |
| 20:48.44 | Malyce | it came to 35 pages I think |
| 20:48.52 | brlcad | pretty irrelevant number |
| 20:48.57 | Malyce | k |
| 20:49.19 | brlcad | it's a shell script .. coulda made the whole thing one line |
| 20:50.04 | brlcad | fixes that muuss picture name |
| 20:50.27 | ``Erik | what's the other dudes name? this is bugging me, I knew it... |
| 20:50.43 | brlcad | was out of diapers by the time brl-cad started :) |
| 20:51.07 | ``Erik | not what your wife siad *coug* *dck* *run* |
| 20:51.43 | ``Erik | '79? |
| 20:51.46 | brlcad | Malyce: whom all have you applied with? |
| 20:52.07 | Malyce | I had wanted to also apply to ptolemy |
| 20:52.16 | Malyce | but I decided to focus only on brl |
| 20:52.45 | ``Erik | get a good app in, if you have time, apply to ptolemy, too... :) |
| 20:52.54 | brlcad | Malyce: also, several apply but don't read our application instructions either and get major points knocked off them by not submitting a patch |
| 20:53.08 | Malyce | isn't the deadline over ? |
| 20:53.10 | brlcad | always good to keep both going |
| 20:53.15 | ``Erik | not yt |
| 20:53.19 | Malyce | what ? |
| 20:53.25 | Malyce | I thought it was done yesterday |
| 20:53.26 | brlcad | brl-cad's going to be pretty competitive, less than 30% chances for any individual |
| 20:53.45 | brlcad | the submit-your-application deadline has passed |
| 20:53.47 | yukonbob | fight! |
| 20:53.55 | ``Erik | I thought there was a bit mroe time, I thought the final cutoff was like the 20th? |
| 20:54.08 | pacman87 | ``Erik: that's the final acceptance decision |
| 20:54.23 | pacman87 | applying deadline was friday noon pst |
| 20:54.24 | brlcad | they can't submit, but tweaks and responses can still be made |
| 20:54.44 | brlcad | which was a shame.. should have given the students the weekend at least |
| 20:54.51 | ``Erik | ok, I know les threw out a "damnit, apply!" last week |
| 20:54.56 | brlcad | the firm deadline bullcrap is annoying too |
| 20:55.08 | brlcad | at least that didn't affect us |
| 20:55.18 | pacman87 | gov test took over my life until thursday night |
| 20:55.28 | brlcad | gov test? |
| 20:55.36 | brlcad | someone make you pee in a cup? |
| 20:55.40 | pacman87 | government |
| 20:55.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:55.48 | pacman87 | no, test on my knowledge of gov |
| 20:55.49 | pacman87 | lol |
| 20:55.52 | brlcad | I know 'gov' meant that |
| 20:55.58 | brlcad | but not what *you* meant by that |
| 20:56.08 | brlcad | s/meant/mean/ |
| 20:56.16 | pacman87 | it's the only class i actually have to take to graduate |
| 20:56.20 | brlcad | ahh |
| 20:56.22 | pacman87 | the other ones are just for fun |
| 20:56.26 | brlcad | that sounds absolutely.. |
| 20:56.27 | brlcad | horrible |
| 20:56.55 | pacman87 | ie, computer architecture, concurrent/dist sys, microprocessors, and solid-state electronics |
| 20:57.04 | brlcad | cool |
| 20:57.10 | mafm | pacman87: couldn't apply? |
| 20:57.15 | pacman87 | no, i got it in |
| 20:57.15 | brlcad | distributed systems should be fun |
| 20:57.18 | pacman87 | but it was rushed |
| 20:57.27 | mafm | brlcad: it's a bit annoying specially because in past years they extended it too much |
| 20:57.28 | brlcad | the rest, meh, to much CE :) |
| 20:57.56 | pacman87 | i want to end up in embedded systems or computer arch |
| 20:58.20 | pacman87 | i'm just taking a long way through ME to get there |
| 20:58.52 | brlcad | decides to go to the grocery store just so he can get a little vitamin D on this fine day |
| 20:58.56 | ``Erik | those all sound fun to me |
| 20:59.14 | mafm | mechanical engineering? |
| 20:59.18 | pacman87 | yes |
| 20:59.32 | ``Erik | brlcad: here's my grocery list O.o |
| 20:59.41 | mafm | meh, the unwashed masses taking over poor CE/CS :( :P |
| 20:59.55 | ``Erik | ce and cs are wayyyyyy different |
| 21:00.22 | mafm | I know, but AFAIK in Europe it's mosly CE all around |
| 21:00.47 | ``Erik | yeah, cs is misunderstood as ce here in the US |
| 21:00.47 | mafm | and people from any other science field taking jobs from us :D |
| 21:00.51 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=Andre_Ca@189.71.14.52) | |
| 21:00.59 | Malyce | haha |
| 21:01.14 | mafm | i.e., mathematicians working as VB mouse engineers |
| 21:01.16 | ``Erik | wait, what? damn fuckers in india stealing jobs from teh us? what? :D *duck* |
| 21:01.17 | mafm | stuff like that :P |
| 21:01.21 | ``Erik | I mean, uh, hi! |
| 21:01.32 | mafm | :) |
| 21:02.06 | mafm | just kidding, but I have telecom eng. with me at work |
| 21:02.11 | ``Erik | morning, andre |
| 21:02.16 | mafm | and they make my life... less interesting |
| 21:02.31 | mafm | previously it was physicists... oh dear |
| 21:02.57 | ``Erik | hm, I get to see engineers and physicists trying to write c++, it's ... interesting |
| 21:02.58 | mafm | grid storage admins mounting volumes with NFS, not knowing how RPC worked internally... |
| 21:03.42 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, beating down a screw with a hammer |
| 21:04.39 | mafm | now I have telecom eng. girls trying to tell me how to interface a WS, telling me that the WS should access caller system's DB directly |
| 21:05.41 | mafm | so, when you access some webservice of say, amazon, they should mess back with the tables of your DB :P |
| 21:05.47 | madant | is a damn Indian :D |
| 21:06.04 | madant | feels it is awesome to wake up at 2:30 am |
| 21:06.18 | ``Erik | yes, dawn, I know :) kinda part of my joke there |
| 21:06.42 | mafm | madant: it depends who's with you in the bed, I guess |
| 21:06.50 | starseeker | 's jaw hits the floor in awe - unless I'm missing something, they've open sourced the REDUCE computer algebra system |
| 21:07.08 | ``Erik | that's too math geek for me, cliff :( |
| 21:07.09 | madant | ``Erik, I think partly the trend is changing now .. Maybe we will have more chinese tech support in 5 years :D |
| 21:07.31 | ``Erik | I was half considering learning indian and moving out there for a few years |
| 21:07.32 | madant | mafm: Indeed :D |
| 21:07.54 | brlcad | madant: so you seen the jai ho music video with the pussycat dolls? |
| 21:08.02 | *** join/#brlcad typ0_ (n=coder@um-sd06-125-2.uni-mb.si) | |
| 21:08.04 | madant | Some parts are really great , "cheap". scenic :) |
| 21:08.15 | madant | brlcad: not really :D |
| 21:08.31 | brlcad | either of those lines humorously works as an answer |
| 21:08.45 | madant | brlcad: I liked Danny Boyle's Trainspotting better ;) |
| 21:08.46 | ``Erik | madant: I think I"d be more interested in looking at the incredible history |
| 21:08.53 | ``Erik | I'm a bit of a history/archeology buff |
| 21:09.14 | ``Erik | and india is home to one of the 7 original civilzations |
| 21:09.20 | starseeker | ``Erik: computer algebra is for people who aren't math geeks but want the correct answers to math questions :-) |
| 21:09.22 | madant | ``Erik, the church i sometimes go to :P is around 1200 years old |
| 21:09.44 | ``Erik | screw 1200 years you got the fucking oldest dock in the world, fucking 4k years old |
| 21:09.48 | madant | had to study sanskrit for 5 years |
| 21:10.11 | Malyce | I had to for 4 |
| 21:10.18 | Malyce | it wasn't all bad |
| 21:10.24 | madant | ``Erik, there was even a recent discovery of something 10k years old in the indian ocean/arabian sea if i am not mistaken |
| 21:10.28 | ``Erik | lothal? |
| 21:10.33 | starseeker | ``Erik: <snort> REDUCE might actually qualify as computer archeology - it's earliest development may predate BRL-CAD's |
| 21:10.36 | brlcad | but is it one of the original alien-seeded civilizations |
| 21:10.54 | ``Erik | lisp is alien technology. |
| 21:11.30 | mafm | 10k years old? peanuts, in Iberian peninsula the neanderthals already played WoW |
| 21:11.31 | madant | ``Erik, Lothal is still just around 5k .. |
| 21:11.32 | brlcad | alienware makes computers for lisp? |
| 21:11.33 | ``Erik | all thingscomputer are history, not archeology :( |
| 21:11.54 | Malyce | mafm: ahahahaha |
| 21:12.19 | ``Erik | shit like lothal makes me read articles and ponder existance |
| 21:12.29 | Malyce | Erik: Why ? |
| 21:12.37 | ``Erik | dude, it's awesome |
| 21:12.41 | madant | brlcad, also i like the song "O Saya" and the wordless "Latika's theme" much better than Jai ho :D |
| 21:12.55 | starseeker | daydreams about alienware lisp machines... |
| 21:12.58 | ``Erik | the first known dock, cut channel and a planned city |
| 21:12.58 | Malyce | Erik: *shrugs* |
| 21:13.05 | Malyce | I know |
| 21:13.32 | madant | and such a LONG time ago :D |
| 21:13.34 | ``Erik | fucking dude, they had communical plumbing millenia before the western world |
| 21:13.54 | mafm | communal? |
| 21:13.59 | Malyce | I wanna see the Bering strait someday |
| 21:14.02 | ``Erik | yeah, heh :) |
| 21:14.10 | Malyce | Don't you mean Mohenjo Daro ? |
| 21:14.18 | ``Erik | houses had tehir own damn plumbing |
| 21:14.46 | Malyce | That's Indus valley civ |
| 21:14.51 | ``Erik | they waren't stupid back then, just lacked the info base we have now |
| 21:15.12 | Malyce | I am not sure that's Lothal though |
| 21:15.15 | mafm | they didn't have youtube, so their productivity excelled |
| 21:15.22 | ``Erik | iirc, archeologists claim there were 7 original civilizations |
| 21:15.35 | ``Erik | indus valley was one of the earlier ones and had some of the most modern features |
| 21:15.40 | Malyce | Lothal is supposed to be an underwater artifact, not well explored |
| 21:15.57 | Malyce | Indus valley was the one with the plumbing and the planning |
| 21:16.02 | Malyce | that we do know abt |
| 21:16.06 | ``Erik | I thought lothal was exposed, just a town on the river |
| 21:16.20 | Malyce | town ? |
| 21:16.27 | Malyce | maybe |
| 21:16.41 | Malyce | let me consult the great wikipedia |
| 21:16.58 | ``Erik | I d'no, best I've heard was that lothal krunked rome in tech and did it 1000 years earlier |
| 21:17.51 | Malyce | It was part of Indus valley |
| 21:18.02 | ``Erik | yeah, but its' the gem |
| 21:18.06 | Malyce | I was thinking of another submerged artifact |
| 21:18.15 | ``Erik | no, we haven't found atlantis yet :D |
| 21:18.22 | Malyce | haha |
| 21:18.36 | ``Erik | the thing out by the straits of gibraltor, sorry, that was artifact from the boat radar paths |
| 21:18.52 | Malyce | no, there was a mythical city in India |
| 21:18.53 | mafm | Gibraltar* |
| 21:18.55 | Malyce | sort of like Troy |
| 21:19.13 | ``Erik | I do not spell good when I'm drunk. Fuck off. :D |
| 21:19.15 | Malyce | myth, but whether the artifact was the same, unverified |
| 21:19.23 | madant | :D |
| 21:19.40 | mafm | your annoying grammar fascist :P |
| 21:20.00 | ``Erik | I'll be more of a bitch than you when I'm together, trust me |
| 21:20.10 | madant | is fascinated by chinese civilizations too .. it takes a hell of a people to stand 1000 year dynasties |
| 21:20.19 | ``Erik | so, yeah, I like archeology and ancient history a lot |
| 21:20.23 | Malyce | Dwarka |
| 21:20.43 | ``Erik | china is awesome, back int he 4 seasons and the warring kingdoms period |
| 21:21.09 | ``Erik | japan learned and integrated a lot from china, it's all awesome |
| 21:21.19 | madant | ``Erik, and to imagine how a common writing system without a common speech system emerged is unbelievable :) |
| 21:21.22 | *** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) | |
| 21:21.27 | madant | even finds it illogical at times |
| 21:21.29 | Malyce | but it is a coincidence that you mention Atlantis |
| 21:21.44 | Malyce | Dwarka was supposed to have sunk as well |
| 21:21.59 | ``Erik | <-- was just a kid, but loved going to the 'theme park' on okinawa that imitated edo period japan, plus the big holidays wehre they all got dressed up |
| 21:22.19 | Malyce | you lived in Japan ? |
| 21:22.25 | ``Erik | '85 to '88 |
| 21:22.32 | Malyce | I want to live there someday |
| 21:22.33 | ``Erik | around kadnea |
| 21:22.36 | ``Erik | kadena |
| 21:22.40 | Malyce | watch too much anime |
| 21:22.44 | madant | think japanese women still walk funny :) |
| 21:22.51 | ``Erik | no, I'm not a huge animae fan |
| 21:22.55 | Malyce | madant: what ?? |
| 21:23.06 | ``Erik | sorry, madant, I'll stop romping them so they can walk normal for ya |
| 21:23.09 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 21:23.16 | madant | haha :D |
| 21:23.46 | madant | is confounded by Japan too.. How could someone close down their borders for 200 years |
| 21:24.05 | madant | Malyce, the kimono effect :D |
| 21:24.08 | mafm | off-topic (?): Leslie on deadlines: "For all you procrastinators out there, please check out Sean's story. If you want something badly enough, you will find a way to make it happen." |
| 21:24.11 | Malyce | ahhhhhh |
| 21:24.20 | mafm | lol |
| 21:24.21 | Malyce | mafm: really ? |
| 21:24.30 | mafm | yep, right now in the mailing list |
| 21:24.32 | madant | mafm, :) what is Sean's story :O ? |
| 21:24.47 | ``Erik | the us closed borders for a long time |
| 21:24.56 | Malyce | I will only do that once I have finished with brl thoudh |
| 21:24.57 | madant | ``Erik, the did ? |
| 21:25.02 | madant | *they |
| 21:25.05 | ``Erik | ww1 forced things open |
| 21:25.10 | ``Erik | ww2 make it a fact |
| 21:25.23 | mafm | madant: one post @ gsoc-discuss, telling about his exams and application to Haiku I think (I just fly over posts) |
| 21:25.50 | ``Erik | don't screw with les, she don't take crap |
| 21:26.01 | mafm | it's funny that she calls procrastinators to ppl complaining about deadlines, but the ppl complaining usually are pretty stupid |
| 21:26.39 | ``Erik | she has mebbe a thousand people bugging her |
| 21:26.44 | ``Erik | step off, yo :D |
| 21:26.53 | madant | feels paranoid now :D |
| 21:27.04 | madant | brlcad, can you see my submitted application :D |
| 21:27.50 | madant | mafm, what is the name of the post ? Application Deadline / |
| 21:27.54 | ``Erik | mentors are supposed to be the first interface, if they can't help, it goes to org admins... if they can't help, THEN it goes to les and chris |
| 21:28.06 | mafm | madant: yes |
| 21:28.43 | mafm | Sean is the guy who began the thread, Leslie has posted just now |
| 21:28.51 | mafm | or like 20 mins ago |
| 21:29.20 | mafm | complaints are in many other threads, though |
| 21:29.28 | madant | ``Erik, and my comment about 1200 year old church was really that if there could be a 1200 year old church here, (there is one even roughly 2000 year old too nearby :D) , there could be a lot more ;) |
| 21:30.04 | ``Erik | one of my bigger thrills in the US was going to cahokia |
| 21:30.28 | mafm | 1200 for a church (building) is not very very common, but there are lots of structures older than that all around |
| 21:30.29 | ``Erik | was a bustling metropolis around 1100 or 1200, before european incursion |
| 21:30.34 | madant | mafm: argh.. i thought Sean = brlcad and was confused |
| 21:30.35 | mafm | all of the roman empire, for one |
| 21:30.55 | mafm | madant: ah no, it was just a random Sean, not Teh Sean |
| 21:31.10 | mafm | a lesser devil, so to speak |
| 21:31.11 | mafm | :P |
| 21:32.00 | madant | ``Erik, sometimes I wonder how much things have changed since say 4000 years ago and how some things haven't :) for instance some of the works of Aristotle seems so organized so structured, it doesnt seem like something written such a long time ago |
| 21:32.23 | madant | except for the slavery etc. :D |
| 21:32.46 | ``Erik | :) some day, I want to buy a plot of land and go start making stone tools and see how far I can get |
| 21:32.53 | mafm | slavery was much worse in the middle ages |
| 21:33.05 | ``Erik | um, I'd argue that the notion of a "wave slave" carries that tradition |
| 21:33.11 | mafm | everything was worse in the middle ages, in western world, really |
| 21:33.17 | ``Erik | not as horrible, but still a notion |
| 21:33.20 | mafm | (and past middle ages too, well) |
| 21:34.41 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-102.dorm.utexas.edu) | |
| 21:34.54 | madant | ``Erik, well i think you would get pretty far :) |
| 21:35.13 | ``Erik | I think it'd be neat to get a view into what life was like |
| 21:35.40 | ``Erik | I've been exposed to a lot more cultural knowledge, but I think an awful lot has been lost |
| 21:36.25 | ``Erik | I mean, y'know, ada lovelace... can I go from banging rocks to what she was doing? |
| 21:36.29 | ``Erik | or turing? or ... |
| 21:36.40 | ``Erik | it'd be an interesting experiment |
| 21:37.10 | ``Erik | and I'm all over crap like ö |
| 21:37.19 | ``Erik | http://primitiveways.com/ |
| 21:39.28 | madant | ``Erik, Turing unlikely :D but then again information in hindsight is .. |
| 21:40.23 | madant | i think reaching roughly 1700 to 1800 will be ok ok .. after that even methods of production become so specialized etc. |
| 21:40.42 | Malyce | You know the shoes that Oetzi the iceman wore ? |
| 21:40.44 | ``Erik | allz I gotta do is find ahardware store with a stock of inifinte tape rolls |
| 21:40.55 | ``Erik | otzi, in the alps |
| 21:40.59 | Malyce | some shoe company tried to buy and copyright the designs |
| 21:41.08 | ``Erik | had an arrow head in his hip, right? |
| 21:41.10 | Malyce | yes |
| 21:41.32 | ``Erik | iirc, his belt had a hidden pocket |
| 21:41.41 | ``Erik | big news in the archeology community |
| 21:41.57 | Malyce | a czech company |
| 21:41.58 | ``Erik | around 3k old and had his skin on him |
| 21:42.21 | ``Erik | some german tourists saw him, cops thought he was a recent murder |
| 21:42.42 | Malyce | lots of ppl tried to say they saw him first |
| 21:42.57 | Malyce | there was even a woman who claimed she spit on him when she saw him first |
| 21:43.12 | Malyce | so that her DNA could be verified to show that she 'discovered' him |
| 21:43.26 | Malyce | so far DNA analysis: 'inconclusive' |
| 21:43.26 | ``Erik | yeah, I know the story :) there were a couple pete bog bodies that got similar attention up in ireland or so |
| 21:43.41 | Malyce | The poor bastard |
| 21:43.52 | Malyce | he was pretty f****d up |
| 21:43.59 | ``Erik | but otzi is one of the oldest |
| 21:44.01 | Malyce | what a way to die |
| 21:44.23 | Malyce | apparently he was attacked more than once |
| 21:44.30 | ``Erik | best I grok, he was pissing folk off, they chased him, shot an arrow in him, he ended up stopping in the snow after a while |
| 21:44.44 | ``Erik | one theory is that he was part of a group and they ditched him |
| 21:44.58 | ``Erik | had a copper axe I think |
| 21:45.09 | ``Erik | pricy blingy at the time |
| 21:45.12 | Malyce | he was all cut up |
| 21:45.20 | Malyce | and had blunt trauma |
| 21:45.32 | Malyce | and was shot with an arrow that hit somewhere vital |
| 21:45.44 | Malyce | shoulder |
| 21:45.49 | ``Erik | hm, I recall that he was beaten up a bit, but was it was the arrow in the hip that put him dow |
| 21:45.50 | ``Erik | n |
| 21:45.58 | ``Erik | thought it was the hip, I may misrecall |
| 21:46.00 | Malyce | but, would have died even with modern medical aid |
| 21:46.07 | Malyce | shoulder |
| 21:46.13 | Malyce | so says the almighty wiki |
| 21:46.17 | ``Erik | aight |
| 21:46.29 | ``Erik | I"m working on memory from papers, not the almighty wiki |
| 21:46.38 | ``Erik | ötzi I thought |
| 21:46.44 | ``Erik | named after the mountain |
| 21:46.53 | Malyce | apparently he also had companions |
| 21:47.03 | Malyce | Oetzal alps |
| 21:47.06 | ``Erik | *point* said that |
| 21:47.30 | ``Erik | whci'd be ötzal in german :) |
| 21:47.40 | Malyce | yes |
| 21:47.57 | ``Erik | german tourists found him, right? |
| 21:48.00 | Malyce | I am only saying Oetz because I have switched my keyboard to english |
| 21:48.10 | Malyce | allegedly |
| 21:48.10 | ``Erik | there was a stink between germany and switzerland about him |
| 21:49.04 | Malyce | but the dude was pretty well equipped |
| 21:49.07 | ``Erik | um ummmm, have you read about the jutland disc? um, copper and gold, looks like a 5k old astronomy table? |
| 21:49.10 | Malyce | had a lot of gear on him |
| 21:49.25 | ``Erik | he had bone and leather gear and an un-shafted copper axehead |
| 21:49.26 | Malyce | not |
| 21:49.27 | Malyce | yet |
| 21:49.35 | Malyce | and flint |
| 21:49.43 | Malyce | and lots of nice little trinkets |
| 21:49.49 | ``Erik | yeah, flint and uh, moss in his belt pocket |
| 21:49.52 | Malyce | including many different kinds of moss |
| 21:50.11 | Malyce | he had nice clothes to go |
| 21:50.15 | ``Erik | the notion of a belt pocket was huge |
| 21:50.40 | Malyce | the wiki is empty on 'jutland disc' |
| 21:50.40 | ``Erik | that he had moss and flint and iron, kinda twisted the community :) |
| 21:50.44 | ``Erik | um |
| 21:50.48 | ``Erik | I'll find it, hold up |
| 21:52.18 | ``Erik | fuck mighttake me some time |
| 21:53.52 | ``Erik | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__Xy7sukjiYU/SYMV9NI0P2I/AAAAAAAAALA/IDk1DKG7WHc/s320/xin_5007032416365151425951.jpg comes up and is nice, but not what I'm thinkin' of |
| 21:54.43 | ``Erik | http://www.cyberia.org.uk/thedisk.html |
| 21:54.49 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith|trip (i=40f692fb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dd22cac15d90fe56) | |
| 21:56.27 | Ralith|trip | so, everyone get their apps in? |
| 21:57.20 | Malyce | what is unique about this disk ? |
| 21:57.38 | Malyce | I woulda thought lots of roman stuff would have been found |
| 21:57.46 | ``Erik | 14 apps |
| 21:58.24 | ``Erik | malyce: it's far older than roman stuff, and provides insanely accurate astronomical info, like, unmatched until 1600 or so |
| 21:59.01 | Malyce | It shows the big dipper, sun, crescent moon and a couple of boats |
| 21:59.11 | Malyce | how is that accurate astronomical info ? |
| 21:59.12 | ``Erik | there's transit info on it |
| 21:59.15 | ``Erik | supposedly |
| 21:59.26 | Malyce | although I know that the Egyptians were into that kinda stuff |
| 21:59.29 | ``Erik | that ignores the heliocentric fallacy, etc |
| 21:59.30 | Malyce | transit info ? |
| 21:59.37 | Malyce | oh hell |
| 21:59.39 | Malyce | you are right |
| 21:59.44 | Malyce | why didn't I think of that |
| 22:00.07 | Malyce | so, just heliocentricity ? anything else ? |
| 22:00.17 | ``Erik | those dang weirdos dancing around fires and shit before good old roman culture, they knew what they were doin' |
| 22:00.22 | Ralith|trip | lol |
| 22:00.38 | Malyce | anything else except heliocentricity ? |
| 22:00.45 | madant | Malyce, i think probably correct relative location of stars of the big dipper etc. ? |
| 22:00.52 | ``Erik | they had mapped correct keppler orbits, dude |
| 22:01.12 | Malyce | there is nothing about the position of the stars |
| 22:01.15 | ``Erik | they made the jump to say that the earth orbits the sun |
| 22:01.17 | Malyce | even I can tell its wrong |
| 22:01.28 | Malyce | but kepler orbits |
| 22:01.35 | Malyce | and heliocentricity |
| 22:01.38 | ``Erik | I'm assuming the translations I've read are right |
| 22:01.47 | Malyce | the big dipper seems wrong |
| 22:01.50 | Malyce | for sure |
| 22:02.11 | ``Erik | my impression is that these dudes had an accurate summary of the solar system long before copernicus and them |
| 22:02.15 | Malyce | but how the kepler orbits ? |
| 22:02.35 | Malyce | that implies ellipses, not circles if I remember |
| 22:02.37 | ``Erik | the addon side bars are supposed to be the formulas |
| 22:02.46 | ``Erik | it went through like 4 revisions |
| 22:02.46 | Malyce | the boats ? |
| 22:03.27 | ``Erik | *shrug* it's a neat artifact :() |
| 22:03.28 | ``Erik | :) |
| 22:04.02 | Malyce | hmmm.... must find out more |
| 22:04.33 | Malyce | I would have thought that all the banging by those roman troops would have made the damn thing anything, but precise |
| 22:04.48 | Malyce | but, cool |
| 22:04.49 | ``Erik | ´this was way before the roman conquest of the area, supposedly |
| 22:05.03 | ``Erik | like, 1k years before |
| 22:05.13 | ``Erik | northern touton area |
| 22:05.16 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 22:05.50 | ``Erik | rome was busy getting their asses kicked by the greeks and the esquatarions at that time |
| 22:06.42 | Malyce | my deep and extensive knowledge of the roman empire |
| 22:06.48 | Malyce | comes from AOE I and II |
| 22:06.51 | Malyce | :D |
| 22:07.05 | Malyce | plus the expansions of cours |
| 22:07.18 | ``Erik | hehehe, they got the butts kicked bigtime for a long assed time |
| 22:07.24 | ``Erik | probably what made 'em so aggressive |
| 22:07.45 | ``Erik | then they went to fiat money and went all insane on expansionism, got slaughtered in the end |
| 22:08.07 | Malyce | they had their fun in the sun |
| 22:08.20 | ``Erik | oh, they had a hell of a run, they were the shit |
| 22:08.37 | Malyce | only beaten so far by the Mongols |
| 22:08.38 | ``Erik | but they went all empire and fucked shit up, couldn't sustain it |
| 22:08.51 | Malyce | Mongols rule |
| 22:08.54 | ``Erik | the mongols were an annoyance, just like the carthegans |
| 22:09.07 | Malyce | they were more than an annoyance |
| 22:09.17 | ``Erik | it was over-extending taht brough them down |
| 22:09.40 | Malyce | they were to the barbarians who settled in the ruins of the roman empire, what the barbarians were to the roman empire |
| 22:09.41 | ``Erik | hannibal fucking shredded them, but ended up limping back home and getting executed |
| 22:09.59 | ``Erik | the mongols got turf, but *shrug* they didn't kncok the might romans down, they just annoyed 'em |
| 22:10.16 | ``Erik | fucking hannibal took rome! but rome won the war |
| 22:10.35 | Malyce | why did the huns turn back ? |
| 22:10.49 | Malyce | ahh yes, attilla had a conversation with the pope |
| 22:11.02 | Malyce | but those weren't the mongols |
| 22:11.13 | ``Erik | iirc, they worked out deals and had insuffient stuff to continue the campaign |
| 22:11.16 | Malyce | the mongols came much later, when rome had been destroyed |
| 22:11.40 | Malyce | they came after germany and poland were somewhat in existence i think |
| 22:11.43 | ``Erik | mongols were way later, western rom was gone, but they did a job on eastern |
| 22:11.45 | Malyce | as kingdoms |
| 22:12.19 | Malyce | have you seen Mulan ? |
| 22:12.30 | ``Erik | no |
| 22:12.38 | Malyce | its a disney movie |
| 22:12.38 | ``Erik | I don't watch movies much |
| 22:12.43 | Malyce | old classic |
| 22:12.56 | Malyce | about how a chinese girl beats back the mongols |
| 22:13.05 | Malyce | I thought the plot was hilarious |
| 22:13.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:14.58 | Malyce | I am guessing that you are older than me by about a decade |
| 22:15.06 | ``Erik | heh, probably |
| 22:15.52 | ``Erik | I was at the very first screening of star wars. that help ya? |
| 22:16.14 | Malyce | holy hell |
| 22:16.33 | Malyce | I was at the very first screening of the remastered version |
| 22:16.36 | Malyce | :D |
| 22:16.52 | ``Erik | heh :( '77, i was there, man |
| 22:17.04 | ``Erik | I WAS THERE!!!! </60's nam vet hippy> |
| 22:17.11 | Malyce | haha |
| 22:17.18 | Malyce | that puts you at two decades then |
| 22:17.27 | Malyce | but you said you were a kid in 85 |
| 22:17.35 | ``Erik | I was young |
| 22:17.43 | ``Erik | was in diapers in 77 |
| 22:17.54 | Malyce | ok, that fixes it |
| 22:17.59 | Malyce | slightly over a decade |
| 22:18.01 | ``Erik | :) |
| 22:18.03 | ``Erik | 32 |
| 22:18.10 | Malyce | yes |
| 22:18.26 | Malyce | but gives you bragging rights |
| 22:18.38 | Malyce | wait, what were you doing watching SW in diapers ? |
| 22:19.41 | ``Erik | my parents are geeks, they took me |
| 22:19.50 | Malyce | and you remember ?? |
| 22:19.55 | ``Erik | of course nto! |
| 22:19.58 | Malyce | wow you have good memory |
| 22:20.00 | Malyce | huh ? |
| 22:20.10 | ``Erik | but, y'know, they said it, and, it's a hell of a braggin' line |
| 22:20.45 | Malyce | haha |
| 22:22.07 | ``Erik | WANT MY CAR BAKC!`#!~@ |
| 22:26.02 | bjorkintosh | what did you do to it? |
| 22:26.27 | ``Erik | bumped a curb |
| 22:27.05 | ``Erik | rental trash nd my pickup woulda just bounced, the m3 destroyed itself :( |
| 22:27.05 | brlcad | mafm: but still a devil nonetheless muahaha |
| 22:29.18 | Malyce | brlcad: he meant you were the bigger devil |
| 22:29.53 | mafm | brlcad: reading your post |
| 22:30.05 | mafm | madant: post alert, this time it's Teh Sean for real :) |
| 22:34.27 | mafm | brlcad: good post, btw |
| 22:35.08 | mafm | ``Erik: what's your car? |
| 22:36.18 | Ralith|trip | mafm: what was that site you had w/ the mailing list archives? |
| 22:37.16 | mafm | Ralith|trip: ml archives? dunno what you're talking about :) |
| 22:45.43 | madant | mafm: thanks .. nice read |
| 22:46.15 | madant | brlcad: awesome post :) i especially like "egregiously presumptuous" :P |
| 22:51.24 | Ralith|trip | mafm: well what post are you talking about |
| 22:52.19 | mafm | ah... gsoc discuss |
| 22:52.54 | mafm | Ralith|trip: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss/browse_thread/thread/c5ce50861adfdd74?hl=en |
| 22:53.09 | Ralith|trip | ah, ty |
| 22:53.30 | madant | hmm.. 7742 members wow :) |
| 23:02.08 | Ralith|trip | hm. Anyone know where to find docs/tips on bit-packing? |
| 23:11.57 | mafm | nope |
| 23:13.25 | Ralith|trip | :/ |
| 23:13.28 | *** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de) | |
| 23:59.24 | mafm | night |
