IRC log for #brlcad on 20090529

00:45.46 starseeker gets a definite no on the siggraph poster
00:48.59 starseeker well, glad I didn't spend any more time fussing with it
01:10.56 brlcad starseeker: ahh, darn -- sorry to hear that
01:11.02 brlcad did they provide any feedback?
01:25.20 starseeker they did
01:25.41 starseeker generally, seems like it was too specialized and "niche" for siggraph
01:29.19 brlcad starseeker: nah, some posters are *way* more niche
01:30.04 brlcad at least I don't buy it, curious to see the actual verbage if they provided anything
01:30.17 brlcad more believe it was just a matter of not making the N% cut line
01:30.41 starseeker is working on getting a pdf of the review - one sec
01:32.55 starseeker there we go
01:34.56 brlcad looks
01:39.18 starseeker Reviewer #16720 wants a lot packed into a small abstract...
01:39.38 brlcad wow, actually looks like you almost had it
01:40.57 starseeker basically one yea, one "nothing novel", and two "too specialized"
01:41.05 brlcad first two were generality based while still impressive, third was a thumbs up, four was 'almost' had he thought the poster was detailed enough
01:42.24 starseeker actually though tire spec -> primitive parameters was the less novel part...
01:44.29 brlcad what the third read into was what I was talking about having you emphasize, the procedural modeling aspect
01:44.47 starseeker yeah, probably
01:45.32 starseeker wonders if he should finish the form1 anyway...
01:47.06 starseeker I guess one take-away is to include a graphic of the poster in the "extra" materials
01:48.06 brlcad oh, what gave you that idea?
01:48.29 brlcad that would have been great, think if they'd actually seen the full poster over the abstract
01:48.34 starseeker the last reviewer asking for so much detail
01:48.41 brlcad ah yeah
01:48.54 starseeker packed the abstract to the limit as it is...
01:50.44 brlcad i'm sure there's another forum that will be great for the poster, given how close that was (and more importantly just how well put together it is)
01:50.59 starseeker cool :-)
01:52.08 starseeker the "well put together" is due to your help - thanks for all the time/help you put into it brlcad
01:52.40 brlcad nah, you did all the heavy lifting
01:53.11 starseeker it's that polish that makes all the difference though - I seem to lack the "make good color choices" gene
01:53.37 starseeker glances around to make sure better half didn't see me admit that...
01:53.49 brlcad hehe
04:27.55 *** join/#brlcad d-lo (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
07:02.03 *** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-14.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:01.10 *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
09:25.37 *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
10:34.48 d-lo Mernin all
12:14.18 *** join/#brlcad suryajith (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
12:21.35 *** part/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
12:24.28 *** join/#brlcad n00b_in (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
12:24.40 *** part/#brlcad n00b_in (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
12:40.56 *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.199.252)
13:02.24 *** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.198.23)
13:35.03 *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.133.164)
14:56.07 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:56.48 brlcad howdy d_rossberg, gl?cklicher Freitag zu Ihnen!
14:57.00 brlcad doubts that is right :)
14:58.34 archivist sees strange black background
14:59.32 d_rossberg brlcad: oje
15:00.07 d_rossberg w"unscht einen sch"onen Freitag!
15:01.20 d_rossberg and a happy Whitsun
15:03.30 archivist ö ü I dont see the proper chars from you two
15:03.50 archivist are they correct from me
15:05.30 d_rossberg "o and "u are the LaTeX (Babel package) replacements for ö and ü
15:06.29 archivist ah ok /me is a latex free zone
15:06.51 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34598 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/ (BrlcadCore.rc CMakeLists.txt brlcad.rc):
15:06.51 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: renamed the file with the BRL-CAD version defines and copied it into the rc^3/include/brlcad directory
15:06.51 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: this way an application is able to memorize the BRL-CAD version it was compiled with at compile time
15:06.51 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: i.e. it can compare the BRL-CAd version of the DLL it is using with the one it was compiled with
15:09.58 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34599 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/brlcad/globals.h src/coreInterface/globals.cpp): 3 functions to get the interface's version information
15:26.19 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34600 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: found some bad light behavior with infinite lights. seems like several bugs depending on the light fraction and surface orientations and light angles.
15:42.51 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Pacman87 07http://brlcad.org * r1445 10/wiki/User:Pacman87:
16:51.11 *** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
16:52.52 pacman87_ waves to jdoliner
17:49.02 brlcad waves to pacman87_ :)
18:11.57 *** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-236-35.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:36.45 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light1.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with default (30%) ambient illumination.
18:41.23 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light2.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination.
18:44.25 starseeker hmm - apparently someone working on Cairo-in-OGRE3D rendering
18:46.51 starseeker http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=47237
18:48.10 brlcad heh, neat
18:49.21 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light3.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 2.0 for double intensity.
18:49.32 starseeker brlcad: how did it end up - are we doing Qt in OGRE or OGRE in Qt?
18:50.55 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light4.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for blooming intensity.
18:51.14 brlcad it should be 'ogre in qt'
18:51.30 starseeker OK
18:51.46 starseeker wonders if this would help any? http://www.qt-apps.org/content/show.php/QtOgre+Framework?content=92912
18:51.49 brlcad Qt is used to create the context/window, that is passed to ogre's initialization (a lower level one iirc)
18:52.38 brlcad yeah, that looks like someone did exactly that with that project
18:53.07 Ralith ooh, handy!
18:53.20 starseeker zlib license looks ok, I think...
18:53.30 Ralith zlib is a BSDalike, no?
18:53.35 brlcad yeah
18:53.40 starseeker http://www.gzip.org/zlib/zlib_license.html
18:53.59 brlcad I'd be surprised if that 'project' was more than a couple files
18:54.09 Ralith nevertheless, it's a great place to start.
18:54.14 brlcad yeah
18:54.16 Ralith or looks like one anyway
18:54.21 brlcad save you a few days
18:54.45 brlcad or at least a day :)
18:54.54 Ralith some amount of time, anyway
18:54.57 starseeker http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45709
18:55.01 Ralith it's nonzero so it's good
18:55.42 Ralith looks great!
18:56.03 Ralith nice find :)
18:56.23 starseeker apparently the original author (PolyVox) is still active in the forums - perhaps he could answer questions
18:56.29 Ralith grabs the code
18:58.06 Ralith hmm... that castle model looks familiar
18:58.39 Ralith er, that's on a different page.
18:58.55 Ralith looks like this guy's working on continuing some voxel work I was looking into a while back as well; neat
19:00.53 starseeker ooo, destructible environments in games
19:01.02 Ralith not properly, yet
19:01.23 Ralith it's just voxels, and has the predictable horrible performance for worlds large enough to be interesting
19:02.20 Ralith but it looks like he's considering various LoD approaches.
19:04.09 Ralith isn't sure if voxels, even somehow optimized, are really the way to go for large-scale destruction, but it's certainly cool.
19:05.03 starseeker Ralith: might want to check that thread on the Qt+OGRE framework and make sure there isn't more current code floating around somewhere
19:05.29 Ralith Last edited by PolyVox on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
19:05.36 Ralith seems like he's been keeping the first post up to date.
19:06.01 starseeker This one has May 27th: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45709&p=342063#p342063
19:06.50 starseeker yeah, OGRE forums seem to work like that - work centers around threads
19:07.01 starseeker seems a bit haphazard, but if it works it works
19:07.22 Ralith oh, it looks like it's in ogreaddons
19:07.33 Ralith syncs
19:07.56 starseeker ah https://ogreaddons.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ogreaddons/trunk/QtOgreFramework/
19:08.01 Ralith yup
19:08.01 starseeker oh, you win :-)
19:08.06 Ralith ^^
19:08.11 Ralith do I get a prise?
19:08.13 Ralith prize*
19:08.19 starseeker just free source code
19:08.23 Ralith yay!
19:09.05 Ralith oh cool, it uses cmake
19:09.14 Ralith that answers my worry about how well qt works with non-qmake
19:09.54 Ralith (probably still depends on qmake and/or related tools, but at least this allows a consistent build system)
19:11.52 starseeker nods
19:11.55 Ralith hm, can't *quite* get the demo to run.
19:17.21 Ralith argh.
19:17.36 starseeker hmm?
19:17.53 Ralith found an error log that confirms what I suspected was wrong, but doesn't actually tell me anything useful re: solving it.
19:18.15 Ralith ah here we go.
19:18.46 Ralith facepalms
19:18.56 Ralith he hardcoded the GL render system dynlib path.
19:19.16 Ralith ...or so it appears?
19:19.55 Ralith yup.
19:20.13 starseeker oops
19:20.20 starseeker code change #1
19:20.32 Ralith indeed.
19:20.48 Ralith pretty sure there shouldn't even need to be a path, much less a hardcoded one.
19:20.57 Ralith that's what ldd is for.
19:22.49 Ralith hm, perhaps there is need after all.
19:23.11 *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-117.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
19:27.45 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:27.45 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Phong.png]]": Example of Phong illumination, pulled from the Wikipedia.
19:27.45 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: Provided under GFDL.
19:34.00 Ralith gah!
19:34.17 Ralith why do people "support linux" but always forget case sensitivity? >:|
19:34.39 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light5.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for high intensity. Specular is 0.7 and diffuse is 0.3 (default).
19:35.19 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:35.19 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Light6.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a
19:35.19 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for
19:35.20 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: high intensity. Specular is 0.5 and diffuse is 0.5 for more 'dulled'
19:35.20 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: reflectance.
19:36.18 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:36.18 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Light7.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a
19:36.18 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for
19:36.18 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: high intensity. Specular is 0 and diffuse is 1 for maximally diffuse
19:36.18 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: reflectance.
19:37.02 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:37.02 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Light8.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a
19:37.02 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for
19:37.02 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: high intensity. Specular is 1 and diffuse is 0 for maximally specular
19:37.02 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: reflectance.
19:37.43 Ralith hm, that's interesting; it doesn't seem to really handle a tiling wm well.
19:41.41 Ralith or perhaps this is a deeper problem. One way or another, the windows that are supposed to be within Ogre end up as separate windows, except for the FPS counter, and that one ends up outside if I mess with the window in a certain way.
19:41.51 Ralith perhaps this isn't such a good starting point.
19:42.14 Ralith shall try to contact the author.
19:44.04 starseeker sorry - thought it might help :-/
19:44.15 starseeker didn't dig too deep into it though
19:44.27 Ralith it certainly looked that way, and it may yet.
19:44.31 Ralith we'll se
19:45.31 Ralith although the way it states that it can only do transparent windows on systems with compositing WMs makes me wonder if it's actually embedding the Qt windows in OpenGL properly.
19:48.40 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light brg.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box looking down from above. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination with a 1.0 light fraction on all three lights.
19:50.31 Ralith yeah, it does kind of look like it's just drawing the Qt windows on top of, rather than in, the context.
19:51.51 starseeker ah, poo
19:52.39 starseeker https://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47381
19:53.49 starseeker Perhaps there are some hints here:
19:53.53 starseeker http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=258064
19:55.00 Ralith that's ogre-in-qt rather than qt-in-ogre
19:55.18 Ralith hm.
19:55.37 Ralith brlcad: so, wait, do we just want an Ogre context within a Qt window?
19:55.56 Ralith as opposed to everything within an OpenGL context?
19:56.26 Ralith it should be relatively straightforward to simply create an Ogre widget.
19:56.38 Ralith that's not what I thought we'd decided on, though
19:57.02 starseeker thought we would be rendering the Qt widgets on the OGRE context
19:57.06 starseeker or in
19:57.11 Ralith thought so as well.
19:57.33 starseeker so we essentially need to do "right" what that code tried to fake
19:57.40 Ralith yeah
19:57.58 Ralith brlcad: confirm?
19:59.56 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light brg10.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box looking down from above. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination with a 10.0 light fraction on all three lights.
20:02.56 Ralith brbs for a couple hours
20:04.12 starseeker Ralith: Hmm, the comments of pmax here may be of interest: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42733&start=25
20:07.46 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light brg20.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box looking down from above. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination with a 20.0 light fraction on all three lights.
20:08.43 starseeker Ralith: If I'm not mistaken, pmax was trying to do it the "right way" and PolyVox thinks perhaps a new feature in 4.5 would make it possible
20:10.40 starseeker if I'm understanding this correctly, it's 1. Qt gets going and then creates either a window or a fullscreen context (if those are actually different)
20:11.05 starseeker 2. In the QT window/context, Qt asks for an instance of Ogre
20:12.19 starseeker 3. Qt then takes that instance of Ogre, and uses it as the output for its widget renders. Qt still manages things like I/O, passing things specific to Ogre through the Qt system to the Ogre system
20:15.37 starseeker I suppose other possibilities would be to have Qt request an opengl graphics system and then shoehorn OGRE in between QT and its graphics system, but that doesn't feel right
20:16.37 starseeker would require that whatever Qt wants from opengl is the same as what OGRE wants, so that a Qt requested opengl context could serve as the "target" for Ogre
20:20.48 starseeker this probably comes under the "check what stellarium does" heading
20:21.27 starseeker don't think they use OGRE, but what they do do might be helpful as a technique illustration (they're GPL so no code grabbing)
20:37.20 starseeker Ralith: also possibly of interest (see comment from gunnar at 10/23/2008 6:39) http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/10/22/so-long-and-thanks-for-the-blit/
20:39.10 starseeker may help as well: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/06/27/accelerate-your-widgets-with-opengl/
20:39.35 starseeker hopes we won't have to try creating a whole Ogre rendering system for Qt, but it might come to that...
20:48.22 starseeker well, custom QPaintDevice backends are possible apparently - need to create an engine that derives from QPaintEngine
20:51.19 starseeker don't know if that works though, because QWidget is also a subclass of QPaintDevice
20:52.48 starseeker neat stuff
20:52.53 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1458 10/wiki/Lighting: Initial (brief) overview of how BRL-CAD lighting works with examples
20:53.42 brlcad woot, http://brlcad.org/wiki/Lighting <-- proofreads welcome for clarity/typos/etc
20:55.15 starseeker looks
20:55.35 starseeker well, this sounds hopeful for QWidget: Warning: If you are using a custom paint engine without Qt's backingstore, Qt::WA_PaintOnScreen must be set. Otherwise, QWidget::paintEngine() will never be called; the backingstore will be used instead.
20:55.45 starseeker implies a custom paint engine can be used
20:59.42 starseeker brlcad: first line after Phone "Plastic" Shader - maybe say "Initially, you may think..." ?
20:59.46 starseeker just a nitpick
21:01.57 starseeker nice job!
21:49.20 poolio howdy all!
21:49.43 pacman87 hi poolio
21:50.39 poolio ahoy pacman87, how's gsoc going?
21:51.01 pacman87 bit of a slow start, rereading code
21:51.04 pacman87 picking up now
21:53.16 poolio cool cool. so you're done classes and what not?
21:53.49 pacman87 yeah, graduation was last weekend
21:54.18 pacman87 just found out i got accepted to the EE program for grad school at UT Austin today
22:01.35 poolio congratulations! was that your top choice?
22:02.03 pacman87 yeah, i didn't really apply to that many
22:02.30 pacman87 i just finished my undergrad in ME there
22:07.58 Ralith starseeker: actually, there are Qt demos doing in-OpenGL drawing using that new 4.5 feature.
22:08.05 Ralith just none that use Ogre too
22:09.20 Ralith starseeker: that last link is in fact what I'm referring to
22:09.35 Ralith I guess it's a 4.4 feature
22:10.13 Ralith hm, so I guess what would be needed would be override QGraphicsScene::drawBackground to call Ogre's frame render function
22:10.39 Ralith the trick being, as discussed, getting Ogre to do the render into the same context.
22:11.41 Ralith starseeker: there's also this really cool demo someone wrote with Qt widgets mapped into a 3D world in an OpenGL context, and one of the widgets was an OpenGL context (or something?) that controlled a camera in the world, so you could view it through itself to an arbitrary level of recursion
22:28.45 Ralith tries to build that.
22:30.30 Ralith oh hey, qmake generates a makefile despite the apparent absence of build instructions. handy.
22:31.02 Ralith works perfectly out of the box! I think we have a starting point, if it's licensed well.
22:35.39 mafm don't worry Ralith, USA's Army has good funding :P :)
22:35.51 Ralith :P
22:36.05 Ralith aw, it's GPL'd
22:36.44 Ralith well it's simple enough
22:37.17 mafm wasn't Qt LGPL'd recently?
22:37.26 Ralith this code in particular is GPL
22:37.33 Ralith it's not actually Qt, just an example
22:37.45 mafm oh
23:42.08 brlcad kicks off a nifty Goliath render for the weekend

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.